# 16th December 1971: From East Pakistan to Bangladesh



## T-Faz

Reminiscing about December 16 &#8211; The Express Tribune

The disaster that struck Pakistan on December 16, 1971 has few precedents in the history of nations. But whereas a national tragedy of such magnitude should be a source of eternal shame, such feelings have totally escaped the Pakistani intelligentsia and elite. Before this, Pakistan never had such a pariah status in the international community. At the time, the news of the &#8216;genocide&#8217; of Bengalis was making headlines in international media. President Yahya Khan&#8217;s interview with French daily Le Figaro in October 1971 appeared with an apology from the chief editor &#8220;for the violence of the language of the president&#8221;.

It was a cold morning on December 17, 1971. When I entered the Pakistani embassy in Colombo, as a young ambassador, I saw hundreds of Sri Lankans sitting on the lawns. The high commissioner, in a brusque official tone, asked me to meet them. The 500 or so Muslims were sobbing and crying over the Dhaka surrender.

I sat for a while, consoling them. When I went back to the high commissioner, he was entertaining another Pakistani diplomat en route to his posting in Kuala Lumpur. The commissioner asked me to bring him the gradation list of the Foreign Office to ascertain his seniority after the exodus of the Bengali officers. No expression of grief or loss. The tragedy was seen as holding promise of quick upward mobility in the service, following the departure of Bengali diplomats.

This was not the only instance of our elite&#8217;s indifference. A retired general had planned a big bash to celebrate his daughter&#8217;s birthday on December 16. After the news of the fall of Dhaka, some officers meekly suggested that the celebration was improper but were chastised by the ambassador for their impudence.

The fact is that West Pakistani leaders regarded East Pakistan as a millstone in the neck of the federation. The following paragraph from former chief justice of Pakistan Muhammad Munir&#8217;s book, From Jinnah to Zia (Vanguard 1980), is instructive.

&#8220;When I joined Ayub&#8217;s Cabinet&#8230; every day was spent listening to long speeches of East Pakistan members of exploitation of East Pakistan&#8230;. None of the ministers or members of the Assembly, whether from East Pakistan or West Pakistan, rose to rebut these allegations. I spoke to Ayub&#8230; and asked him whether it would not be better&#8230; to ask East Pakistan to take their affairs in their own hands. He suggested that I should talk about it to some influential leader from East Pakistan. One day while I was talking to Mr Ramizuddin who had been a minister in Bengal or East Pakistan I broached the matter&#8230;. He said, &#8216;look here we are the majority province and it is for the minority province to secede because we are Pakistan.&#8217; The matter ended there and complaints in the Assembly continued as before.&#8221;

Readers can judge for themselves who wanted separation and who wanted secession.

Published in The Express Tribune, December 16th, 2010.

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## sparklingway

Written by one of the greatest, if not the greatest intellectual born in Pakistan, these prophetic words should be a lesson to all.

*Letter to a Pakistani Diplomat
*​*SEPTEMBER 2, 1971*
Eqbal Ahmad

After the publication of a letter in The New York Times (April 10, 1971) signed by me jointly with three other West Pakistani scholars and after subsequent statements of mine opposing the Pakistani military governments intervention in East Bengal, several Pakistani officials protested my position. They all pointed out that: 1) The army, under General Yahya, is only protecting national integrity against a secessionist movement which would cause the 70 million people in East Pakistan to break away from the 56 million in West Pakistan; 2) The army intervened only after the Bengali nationalists had started killing West Pakistani residents in East Pakistan and the minority Bihari refugees from India; 3) Since the leaders of the Awami League of East Pakistan have pro-Western sympathies and connections, and the Chinese support the federal government, anti-imperialist and radical elements should not oppose the militarys action. The following is a reply to one such friend.

Dear

I hope you understand that it was not easy for me and my brother Saghir Ahmad to publish the statement you saw in The New York Times (April 10, 1971). First, I did not have any natural sympathy for the Bangla Desh movement. In fact, I had a definite feeling of antipathy for Sheikh Mujib [East Pakistans leader whose party, the Awami League, won a governing majority in the national assembly and 98 percent of Bengali votes]. He impressed me as being a limited man, impetuous and unimaginative. But then I have less regard for his West Pakistani counterpartsthe miserable Mr. Bhutto who changes his politics like a lizard his color, or the generals who, bred by colonial Britain and armed by the USA, appear bent on turning the country into a Muslim version of Greece and Spain.

Secondly, as you know, I am originally from Bihar, and most of my people had migrated to East Pakistan. Several of them were killed by Bengali zealots during the period immediately preceding the militarys intervention. Furthermore, I grew up during the Movement for Pakistan, and it is hard not to cherish the idea of national unity. Lastly, as a radical and an internationalist, I do not believe that separatist movements constitute a forward step in the right direction. For these reasons, my inclinations should be to support a policy of maintaining the integrity of Pakistan.

However, as I see the facts surrounding recent developments, I am able to find neither a political and economic nor a moral justification for the current policy of military intervention. I have been examining the facts as closely as it is possible to do, given the censorship of news by the military regime and the resulting imbalances in news reports, some of which necessarily emanate from India.

My considered opinion is that:

1) The East Pakistanis had genuine grievances against the federal government, dominated by the military since at least 1957. Not even the most hawkish West Pakistanis deny the gross economic inequities and exploitation suffered by the Bengalis. Politically, twelve years of direct military rule deprived them of even a minor share in the exercise of power.

2) The nearly unanimous electoral support for the Awami Leagues demand for provincial autonomy was the result of the neglect of East Pakistan, climaxing in the example of the incredible negligence in the relief of cyclone victims last November. I recognize that the poor in West Pakistan have suffered also. The callousness of our rulers may be undiscriminating. Yet the more disadvantaged people of East Pakistan could only comprehend their condition as caused by regional discrimination.

3) Having failed to arrive at an extra-parliamentary settlement, the military, supported by West Pakistani leaders, intervened on March 25, 1971, to offset the results of Pakistans first freely held elections. Perhaps the army had little hope of obtaining the capitulation of Pakistans elected representatives. It is now clear that the army used the negotiations between General Yahya and Sheikh Mujib as a cover to prepare for its intervention.

4) There is absolutely no popular base of support for the federal government. Even after four months of terror it has been unable to produce a group of political quislings capable of lending some legitimacy to the armys occupation.

5) While the military has the power to lord over East Pakistan, the cost of this colonization will be very high for the peoples of both East and West. For the latter it must include increasing economic hardships, militarization of our politics and society, and total denial of civil liberties. The closing of journals like Asad and Lail-O-Nahar, the recent jailing without trial in West Pakistan of 800 persons, including leaders like Afzal Bangash, Mukhtar Rana, and G.M. Syed, intellectuals like Abdullah Malik and Sheikh Ayaz, academicians like G.M. Shah, and the recent public floggings of dissenters against the government in Lyalpur and Sialkot are indicative of the shift toward totalitarianism.

Similarly I worry over the statements and editorials which provoke public paranoia by suggesting an Indian-Jewish-American conspiracy in this conflict. This, regardless of the fact that with arms and money the American government is underwriting the murderous mission of the military dictatorship. Above all I am distressed by the promotion of religious fundamentalism and the systematic killing and harassment by the army of our Hindu citizens. I shudder when I think of the repercussions this policy may have for the 80 million ******* in India.

6) Unless there is an immediate end to military rule in East Pakistan, famine and pestilence as well as periodic massacres by the army will cost millions of lives in the coming months. The intervention has already caused an estimated 250,000 deaths of unarmed civilians. Six million refugees have reached India. Between 60,000 and 100,000 are arriving daily and are facing infection from cholera and the hostility of poor Indians. Millions languish in the interior of East Pakistan, hungry and terrorized, potential statistics in what threatens to become the greatest holocaust in history.

As you know, the balance of survival is delicate in East Pakistan. Minor disruptions often cause major tragedies. Nineteen seventy and 1971 have been particularly hard years. The floods last August and September were the worst of the last decade and destroyed about half a million tons of rice. The cyclone in November, the most severe of the century, destroyed an equal amount of rice and rendered one thousand square miles of rice lands uncultivable for at least one year.

Then the army, in an effort to deny supplies to the Bengali opposition, started confiscating and burning the food reserves. Many displaced or frightened peasants in the villages have not harvested the winter crop. The combined losses, amounting to about 2.5 million tons of rice, must be replaced immediately if mass starvation is to be prevented. The recent survey by the World Bank, as well as the disclosures by Senator Kennedy of suppressed State Department reports, indicate that Western and US officials in East Pakistan have been warning Washington of the specter of famine.

Others have been more concrete in their predictions. Three months ago, Iain MacDonald, Relief Coordinator for Oxfam and other agencies, warned that 1.5 million persons may face starvation. Recently the Financial Times of London estimated that possibly four million would die unless relief and reconstruction were speedily begun. Alan Hart, a BBC reporter, believes it probable that twenty or more million East Pakistanis will be starving by September or October.

The dispatch of more supplies for relief is by itself unlikely to avert the impending tragedy. Only a quick restoration of civilian rule can prevent the use of food grains and medicine as military weapons; and only such a restoration can ensure both the distribution of relief and an effective role for international agencies in the administration of such relief.

7) Lastly, I should stress that no genuine restoration of civilian government will be possible until the East Pakistanis have been conceded their right to autonomy or even secession.

For these reasons, I believe that the only workable course for West Pakistanis is to insist on immediate and unconditional termination of martial law, the convening of the duly elected national assembly, and a commitment that the majority decisions of that assembly shall be binding on all, even if these decisions dismember Pakistan as a state consisting of East and West. We must reject the armys absurd claim that it has intervened to protect the nations integrity from the party that had just won, in Pakistans only freely held elections, a governing majority in the national assembly.

In fact, the elected representatives of East Pakistan had insisted only on fulfilling their mandate to achieve autonomy for their province. The proclamation by the East Pakistanis of the independent state of Bangla Desh took place only after the army refused to convene the national assembly and after it had brutally intervened in East Pakistan on March 25, 1971. In his speech of June 28, General Yahya denied the right of the national constituent assembly to draw up a constitution and he harshly attacked all the leaders of the Awami League. This destroyed the possibility of any settlement based on the mandate of the elections.

I know that I shall be condemned for my position. For someone who is facing a serious trial in America, it is not easy to confront ones own government. Yet it is not possible for me to oppose American crimes in Southeast Asia or Indian occupation of Kashmir while accepting the crimes that my government is committing against the people of East Pakistan. Although I mourn the death of Biharis by Bengali vigilantes, and condemn the irresponsibilities of the Awami League, I am not willing to equate their actions with that of the government and the criminal acts of an organized, professional army.

According to reliable reports, which were not challenged by the government, no more than 10,000 persons were killed or wounded by Bengali nationalists in the riots against the Biharis. At the beginning of August, however, West Pakistan military authorities issued a white paper which claimed that 100,000 people were killed by the Bengali opposition. These and other exaggerated claims in the white paper were obviously intended to justify trials and possible death sentences for opposition leaders. As this letter is being written, the military government has announced that Sheikh Mujib will face a secret military tribunal on August 12, on charges of waging war against Pakistan. Since the white paper announced that seventy-nine members of the unconvened national assembly will face criminal charges, Mujibs trial may foreshadow more secret prosecutions.

I know that the army did not intervene in East Pakistan to stop the killing of non-Bengalis, which went on for three weeks while the generals pretended to seek extra-parliamentary deals with the politicians. Saving civilian lives was not the motive behind the vast repressions that have already cost countless Pakistanis their lives and property and forced millions to flee to India. Unequal bartering of brutalities is not a function of responsible government. The very fact that this military regime seeks justification for its behavior by referring to the excesses of the Awami League and the aroused masses is a measure of the steep decline in the civic standards of our army and civil services. Above all, criminality is not a commercial proposition: one cannot deposit the crimes of one into the account of another.

The Chinese rhetoric on this issue is irrelevant. They have offered Pakistan their support only against foreign interference; and indicated their belief that this conflict is an internal matter. Much more alarming is the American governments decision to continue armaments sales and economic aid to the dictatorship, despite the unanimous opposition of its Western allies, of important men in the Congress, and of the World Bank. This is particularly striking in view of the long-standing loyalty to the West and to the US of Sheikh Mujib and his party.

Washingtons assistance to the West Pakistan junta should be a lesson to those Pakistanis who believed that the US, given a choice between militarists and moderate democrats, would choose the latter. The leaders of the Awami League in East Pakistan failed to understand how important West Pakistan was to the Nixon-Kissinger strategy of building an informal anti-Soviet alliance of dependable clients around the Mediterranean and Indian oceansfrom Spain and Portugal, through Greece and Israel, to Iran and Pakistan.

It has been said that General Yahya is now being rewarded by US support for having arranged Mr. Kissingers recent mission to China. If this is so, then the Chinese-American detente will have started by being detrimental to the weak and poor in Asia. Whatever the reasons for US policy, however, one effect is clear: Americans have become silent accomplices in crimes against humanity in yet another part of Asia. But their obligations are not as urgent as yours and mine.

I should also stress that the recent developments strengthen the possibility of a war between India and Pakistan. The two countries are more and more becoming pawns in world politics. India and the USSR have now signed a twenty-year friendship pact in which Russia promises to give military assistance to India in the event of war with Pakistan. This treaty cancels the gains that Pakistan had made at the Tashkent conference in 1966, when the Russians promised both to give aid to Pakistan and to be neutral in India-Pakistan relations.

I do not know if my position would at all contribute to a humane settlement. Given the fact that our government is neither accountable to the public nor sensitive to the opinion of mankind, our protest may have no effect until this regime has exhausted all its assets and taken the country down the road to moral, political, and economic bankruptcy. However, lack of success does not justify the crime of silence in the face of criminal, arbitrary power.

Letter to a Pakistani Diplomat by Eqbal Ahmad | The New York Review of Books

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## T-Faz

*All news and articles about the 1971 debacle should go into this thread. Please refrain from posting offensive, exaggerated or point scoring articles for the sake of better discussions.

The concentration should be on Pakistan and Bangladesh, the past, present and future.*

My opinion about the events are clear to many here, as I have stated before, there would not even be a Pakistan if it wasn't for the Bengalis who supported an idea which neither mentioned them nor acknowledged them in our nations name. Yet they worked tirelessly with the father of our nation Jinnah to create Pakistan and they were the most patriotic of Pakistani's.

The injustice that the Bengalis suffered from an early time in our nation is regrettable to say the least. While West Pakistan flourished, it was all at the expense of East Pakistan. The shortsightedness and power hungry attitude of our ruling elite is the main cause of the separation of Pakistan.

When Mujib-ur-Rahman won the election, he should have been appointed as the leader but the mockery made of fair elections caused a damaging event to occur that left Pakistan open to attacks by any of it's enemies.

The consequent military action to solve a political crisis was even worse and it led to an irreversible disaster.

But the past is in the past now and nothing can change what occurred.

There is a lesson in everything and we should have learned a lesson from the event in question - or did we?.

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## T-Faz

Our 1971 debacle &#8211; The Express Tribune

December is cold. Its nights are long and the days are sun-starved. Every December, since 1971, I get into an unexplainable mood of depression. That year, I had stepped into my teens and was like any other young lad, passionately in love with my beloved country, Pakistan. It was during this time that my &#8216;ideals of Pakistan&#8217; being a &#8216;citadel of Islam&#8217; were crushed to a cold death. The unnecessary war of December 1971 with India, saw the dismemberment of the then, largest Islamic state and the event heralded in me, a new awakening &#8212; religion was not a binding force, anymore! The youthful and emotional &#8216;idealism&#8217; of a unified, single Ummah caved into a dismal pit of anger and denial.

Asghar Khan in his book, We Have Learnt Nothing From History aptly remarks, &#8220;The verdict of the electorate (1970 elections) was unexpected and baffled not only the political pundits but also the contesting parties&#8230;The Bengalis had been known for their massive support to a single political organisation, once they believed it deserved their confidence&#8230;Amongst the provinces that later formed a part of Pakistan their contribution to the battle of the ballot was most valuable and their sense of patriotism probably the most developed&#8221;. So how was it, that the most patriotic segment of the country decided to revolt and secede?

Refusal to accept the results of the 1970 elections by the political parties of the western wing, who had the tacit support of the power-drunk generals, paved the way for the long-simmering hatred to surface with full might and venom. The military struck with all its might in March 1971, not realising that no army in history had ever won against its own people.

On December 17, I remember watching the six o&#8217; clock English news on PTV, whereupon the fall of Dhaka &#8212; the humiliating spectacle of a ceremony of surrender at the Dhaka Race Course Ground &#8212; was shown to an aghast, shocked and miserably demoralised nation. In recent history, no army general had ever been stripped of his badges, in full public view. And here General &#8216;Tiger&#8217; Niazi (may Allah bless his soul) who, a day earlier, had said &#8220;Dhaka &#8212; over my dead body&#8221; was signing the instrument of surrender! I cried bitterly, avoiding eye contact with other family members. We were all devastated. East Pakistan had been lost, Jinnah&#8217;s dream and effort lay in shambles.

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, despite his histrionics and dramatic performance at the UN Security Council, seemed like a God-sent messiah to us, when he said: &#8220;We will make a new Pakistan&#8221;. He lifted our courage and morale for which he deserves full credit. He restored respect to the armed forces by declaring in every speech Pakistan lost a political battle, not a military war.

Sarmila Bose is assistant editor at the widely-read, Anandabazar Patrika, and a niece of Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose. Writing on the 1971 war, she said something that we, today, would do well to heed: &#8220;There is much for Pakistan to come to terms with what happened in 1971. But the answers don&#8217;t lie in the unthinking vilification of the fighting men who performed so well in the war against such heavy odds, in defence of national policy. Rather, in failing to honour them, the nation dishonours itself&#8221;.

Oh! deathly cold December, thou shall always be in mourning.
Published in The Express Tribune, December 16th, 2010.

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## mikkix

The 1971 crises holder:
Yahaya 
Bhutto
Pak Army
Beareaucrats
Elite class
Mukti Bahini
India

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## Xestan

T-Faz said:


> Our 1971 debacle  The Express Tribune
> 
> December is cold. Its nights are long and the days are sun-starved. Every December, since 1971, I get into an unexplainable mood of depression. That year, I had stepped into my teens and was like any other young lad, passionately in love with my beloved country, Pakistan. It was during this time that my ideals of Pakistan being a citadel of Islam were crushed to a cold death. The unnecessary war of December 1971 with India, saw the dismemberment of the then, largest Islamic state and the event heralded in me, a new awakening  religion was not a binding force, anymore! The youthful and emotional idealism of a unified, single Ummah caved into a dismal pit of anger and denial.
> 
> Asghar Khan in his book, We Have Learnt Nothing From History aptly remarks, The verdict of the electorate (1970 elections) was unexpected and baffled not only the political pundits but also the contesting partiesThe Bengalis had been known for their massive support to a single political organisation, once they believed it deserved their confidenceAmongst the provinces that later formed a part of Pakistan their contribution to the battle of the ballot was most valuable and their sense of patriotism probably the most developed. So how was it, that the most patriotic segment of the country decided to revolt and secede?
> 
> Refusal to accept the results of the 1970 elections by the political parties of the western wing, who had the tacit support of the power-drunk generals, paved the way for the long-simmering hatred to surface with full might and venom. The military struck with all its might in March 1971, not realising that no army in history had ever won against its own people.
> 
> On December 17, I remember watching the six o clock English news on PTV, whereupon the fall of Dhaka  the humiliating spectacle of a ceremony of surrender at the Dhaka Race Course Ground  was shown to an aghast, shocked and miserably demoralised nation. In recent history, no army general had ever been stripped of his badges, in full public view. And here General Tiger Niazi (may Allah bless his soul) who, a day earlier, had said Dhaka  over my dead body was signing the instrument of surrender! I cried bitterly, avoiding eye contact with other family members. We were all devastated. East Pakistan had been lost, Jinnahs dream and effort lay in shambles.
> 
> Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, despite his histrionics and dramatic performance at the UN Security Council, seemed like a God-sent messiah to us, when he said: We will make a new Pakistan. He lifted our courage and morale for which he deserves full credit. He restored respect to the armed forces by declaring in every speech Pakistan lost a political battle, not a military war.
> 
> Sarmila Bose is assistant editor at the widely-read, Anandabazar Patrika, and a niece of Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose. Writing on the 1971 war, she said something that we, today, would do well to heed: There is much for Pakistan to come to terms with what happened in 1971. But the answers dont lie in the unthinking vilification of the fighting men who performed so well in the war against such heavy odds, in defence of national policy. Rather, in failing to honour them, the nation dishonours itself.
> 
> Oh! deathly cold December, thou shall always be in mourning.
> Published in The Express Tribune, December 16th, 2010.





Thumbs up to the writer, we'll Insh'ALLAH rise

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Tears in my eyes and pain and hatred in my
my heart..........

Oh! deathly cold December, thou shall always be in mourning.

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## F-16_Falcon

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Tears in my eyes and pain and hatred in my
> my heart..........
> 
> Oh! deathly cold December, thou shall always be in mourning.



nothing to worry brother. we are better now with them.

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## Karachiite

No place for traitors or Bharti agents in Pakistan, we are better off without them.

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## F-16_Falcon

Aashiq said:


> No place for traitors or Bharti agents in Pakistan, we are better off without them.



if they were with us than must be working for bhartis. traitors. what happened is good for pakistan and wish of allah.


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## Al-zakir

sammi said:


> couldn't be possible without mukti bahini and india
> 
> Thank you India!



Go to Bharat Raksak and thank there. Get the hell out...

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## PureAryan

T-Faz said:


> *All news and articles about the 1971 debacle should go into this thread. Please refrain from posting offensive, exaggerated or point scoring articles for the sake of better discussions.
> 
> The concentration should be on Pakistan and Bangladesh, the past, present and future.*
> 
> My opinion about the events are clear to many here, as I have stated before, there would not even be a Pakistan if it wasn't for the Bengalis who supported an idea which neither mentioned them nor acknowledged them in our nations name. Yet they worked tirelessly with the father of our nation Jinnah to create Pakistan and they were the most patriotic of Pakistani's.
> 
> The injustice that the Bengalis suffered from an early time in our nation is regrettable to say the least. While West Pakistan flourished, it was all at the expense of East Pakistan. The shortsightedness and power hungry attitude of our ruling elite is the main cause of the separation of Pakistan.
> 
> When Mujib-ur-Rahman won the election, he should have been appointed as the leader but the mockery made of fair elections caused a damaging event to occur that left Pakistan open to attacks by any of it's enemies.
> 
> The consequent military action to solve a political crisis was even worse and it led to an irreversible disaster.
> 
> But the past is in the past now and nothing can change what occurred.
> 
> There is a lesson in everything and we should have learned a lesson from the event in question - or did we?.



There is no doubt bengalis had a huge role in creating pakistan but even if they had not sided with us pakistan was bound be made, Pakistan has for most part of past 9000 years stayed united only with different names, Melluha, Sapta Sindhwa, Arywarta, Sindhu, India(not present day India) are some of pakistan's ancient names but bharat had never been united. Is there anyone who can tell me the ancient names of bharat. Pakistan is the cradle of civilization and it was and always will remain united and it has always looked at west(Middle East) and North(Central Asia) for trade and other relation.
Never east and never will be.

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## shekhar

Geomentary 15th december 2010


good analysis by pak media

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## shekhar

i wonder still pak gov doensnt mention the mistake they did i mean bangaladesh's population was 54&#37; but their share was just 7 to 8% in gov posts still they feel tat it was india who divided pak 
india actually took advantage of opportunity which was made during last 25 years
india came to picture in only last 2 years thats it

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## TaimiKhan

*Keep the thread clean, take clue of what to discuss and how to discuss from the posts / articles posted by T-Faz, if you can't follow that, then don't bother to post, any more trolls would be dealt as trolls should be. *

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## Nalwa

*President Yahya Khan&#8217;s interview with French daily Le Figaro in October 1971 appeared with an apology from the chief editor &#8220;for the violence of the language of the president&#8221;.*

Anybody has access to this article? Seems like an interesting bit of anecdotal history there.


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## akhan62

we can only educate or learn lessons from our mistakes in the past when we empty our glass. with full glass we already know what we suppose to know.
we labelled bengalis as inferior to us in every repect. how can they rule over us even though they have won an election. this was against our dignity and respect. 
i am afraid we still have this full glass syndrome in most of us in the shape of discriminatory laws against the weaker section of our society.
so, lets keep shedding tears on our mistakes and not able to do anything about it.

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## SQ8

It is sad.. 
That the man who was marked by Jinnah for early retirement or essentially to be kicked out of the Pakistan Army.. assumed its helm using devious and cunning and kept it for ten years.. ruining it in the process.
That this man.. who on written testaments by his british superiors in Burma during WWII.. deserted his positions and refused to lead his men into battle.. Led the nation into suicide in 65.. showed pure racist hatred against Bengali's and other less fair races.. ..and then had the audacity to write in his book that he "would not preside over the destruction of Quaid's Pakistan"..(rather let Yahya khan do it).

Those that truly supported Pakistan..believed in it.. were sidelined.. and people like Liaqat Ali Khan...about whom Fatima Jinnah narrates that he came to see how long the Quaid had left.. took power.. 
Businessmen.. racially and financially motivated opportunists took over Pakistan right after the Quaid died..

And the people arent all innocent either.. falling prey to such blatant lies.. believing in such leaders...led to 71. 
Where when the IN has attacked Karachi harbor.. and the fuel tanks in manora were aflame..the Naval chief who was drunk beyond limits.. remarks to his son.."WHat A lovely bonfire!!"..
When the IA was advancing towards Dhaka.. 
Gen Niazi was busy in orgies.. and did not wish to hear reports on the frontline.

Even further back.. in 67..when Bengali intellectuals had begun to ask openly questions about the biased treatment against them.. instead of hearing them out.. they where declared traitors. 

Was not any love between the west and the east?.. could there have been?
Had the people and not the politicians met.. things might have been different.
But even today.. its the same all around.. in our country.. 
Calls of "jaag Punjabi jaag"..."Pakistan na Khappay".. and the certificates for being a Muslim.. 
There a lot to be learned from 71.. unfortunately.. the only ones that learnt anything are the Bengali's and the Indians..

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## johnny boy

hmmm...why was so much hatred shown aginst bengalis pre 1971?????any one has any answer??????


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## Awesome

Unfortunately for both of us, the current leadership in Bangladesh is hell bent upon ruining the pillars of friendship that were built up during the Musharraf - Zia era.

I am one of those people that whole heartedly accepts and welcomes the creation of Bangladesh, but also have a deep desire for the two nations to have an extremely close (but distinct) relationship.

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## chisty_chowdhury



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## chisty_chowdhury



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## Imran Khan

congs to all BD members .yes you done it no matter how.

for pakistani members


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## chisty_chowdhury



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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

what are these people trying to do?


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## Imran Khan

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> what are these people trying to do?



celebrate there national day .why qes you cant see sir


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## bd_4_ever

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> bangalies happy to get freedom from PAKISTAN and become slave of india.........




Dont post rubbish please...

Every nation has its right to become independent and stand on its own feet...something even Pakistan did...

Off course our freedom fighters shed their blood for a country where we can live in harmony...they are not the cause, whatsoever, of where our country stands today...we celebrate our freedom day as we have the right to do so...just like every other nations does...

If you dont like it...dont type bs...


Cheers!!!

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## ajtr

Imran Khan said:


> &#1729;&#1605;&#1585;&#1575;&#1586; &#1548; &#1740;&#1729; &#1601;&#1587;&#1575;&#1606;&#1729;&#1569; &#1570;&#1729; &#1608; &#1601;&#1594;&#1575;&#1722; &#1606;&#1729; &#1662;&#1608;&#1670;&#1726;
> &#1583;&#1608; &#1583;&#1606; &#1705;&#1740; &#1586;&#1606;&#1583;&#1711;&#1740; &#1705;&#1575; &#1594;&#1605; &#1575;&#1740;&#1722; &#1608; &#1570;&#1722; &#1548; &#1606;&#1729; &#1662;&#1608;&#1670;&#1726;
> &#1705;&#1740;&#1575; &#1705;&#1740;&#1575; &#1581;&#1740;&#1575;&#1578; &#1575;&#1585;&#1590; &#1705;&#1740; &#1729;&#1740;&#1722; &#1578;&#1604;&#1582;&#1740;&#1575;&#1722; &#1606;&#1729; &#1662;&#1608;&#1670;&#1726;
> &#1705;&#1587; &#1583;&#1585;&#1580;&#1729; &#1729;&#1608;&#1604;&#1606;&#1575;&#1705; &#1729;&#1746; &#1740;&#1729; &#1583;&#1575;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1722; &#1606;&#1729; &#1662;&#1608;&#1670;&#1726;
> &#1578;&#1601;&#1589;&#1740;&#1604; &#1587;&#1746; &#1705;&#1729;&#1608;&#1722; &#1578;&#1608; &#1601;&#1604;&#1705; &#1705;&#1575;&#1606;&#1662;&#1606;&#1746; &#1604;&#1711;&#1746;
> &#1583;&#1608;&#1586;&#1582; &#1576;&#1726;&#1740; &#1601;&#1585;&#1591; &#1588;&#1585;&#1605; &#1587;&#1746; &#1605;&#1606;&#1729; &#1672;&#1726;&#1575;&#1606;&#1662;&#1606;&#1746; &#1604;&#1711;&#1746;​


Uncleji,
waise toota phoota translation to ho jata hai agar yehi aap roman script main bhi post kar den to padhane main thodi asani hogi.


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## bd_4_ever

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> i told you some reality my friend ........ don,t get teased i know truth is bit sour. it is sour for us so should be it for you.



Its no reality...its your intuition...

You are free to post what ever you want...i dont mind...

I just did not like you questioning about our celebration of victory day...what you meant was we should have been under your rule instead...and i dont buy that...we fought to be free and we are so and thats reality...



Cheers!!!

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## Imran Khan

ajtr said:


> Uncleji,
> waise toota phoota translation to ho jata hai agar yehi aap roman script main bhi post kar den to padhane main thodi asani hogi.



kabhi school gay hoty to ata pardhana . us wakt to school bhejty thy or tum cirket khelny chaly jaty thy .

or mujhy english ati to translate ker ke na likhta

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## ajtr

Imran Khan said:


> kabhi school gay hoty to ata pardhana . us wakt to school bhejty thy or tum cirket khelny chaly jaty thy .
> 
> or mujhy english ati to translate ker ke na likhta


Ab jaise yeh post jo angrezi lipi main likhi hai waise hi likh dijiye.


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## ajtr

*In-depth: What students are being taught about the separation of East Pakistan​*






History is written by the teachers?
By Misha Hussain, in Dhaka
DHAKA: Few would argue with the sequence of events that lead to the liberation of Bangladesh as described in the textbooks being taught to tenth grade students in Bangladesh.
However, despite the clarity of the national curriculum, students interviewed by Dawn.com seemed confused as to the reasons behind the 1971 war as well as many of the facts associated with it.

According to the school textbooks, the need for self-autonomy was crystallised by Ayub Khans apathy towards East Pakistan during the 1965 Indo-Pak War and the discrimination towards Bengalis in every sphere of the regions administration: economical, political and military.

His self-proclaimed Decade of Improvement left Bengalis impoverished, unprotected and voiceless. 

Two-thirds of Pakistans foreign currency was earned by exporting East Pakistans jute for which the Bengali growers never received a fair price and West Pakistanis made up 95 per cent of the military of which the upper echelons were forbidden to Bengalis reads the text. 

After years of subjugation, it was the rejection of the six-point plan, the incarceration of 35 prominent leaders for the Agartala Conspiracy and finally the refusal of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto (backed by Yahya Khan) to form the opposition party, that finally sparked the armed conflict.

The lack of relief provided to East Pakistan after the 1970 Bhola cyclone, which killed an estimated 500,000 people, further highlighted the helplessness of this then overlooked region of South Asia and catalysed the Bengalis struggle for self-autonomy into something much more tangible, independence.

However, despite this clear (if somewhat one-sided) account of what happened, almost all the students of class 10 interviewed by Dawn.com said that Bangladesh went to war for our mother tongue, a major frustration, but never a part of Mujibur Rahmans six-point plan. Somehow, the 1952 Bangla Language Movement seems to have been directly connected with the fight for independence.

Similarly, there is an equal amount of confusion on the numbers killed. All the students without fail stated that three million people died in the nine-month struggle. Another fact that is not mentioned in the text books.

My teacher told me that almost three million people died, said 15-year-old Surzi.

I heard on TV that three million died, said 16-year-old Priti.

While the government is teaching one thing, it would appear that the teachers, parents and the media are teaching another.

Could resolving this difference in historical understanding be key to ensuring that future generations grow up in a cooperative environment helping both Pakistan and Bangladesh move forward as a region?

For 17-year-old Shebab the answer is clear. I am proud of my country and the people that fought for its liberation. However, I feel this hatred towards the Pakistanis.

I dont think we should forgive them. Other reputable sources concur to the rape, the murder and the destruction of Bangladesh, he said.

You can understand why the Bengalis might feel aggrieved.

We have earned our freedom [from Pakistan] through nine months of bloody struggle begins the concluding chapter Losses of the 1971 Liberation War of a class ten history book being taught in classrooms across Bangladesh. 

They [the Pakistan Army] destroyed educational institutes, industries and public property. Bridges, roads and railways were also destroyed as were the sea ports at Chittagong and Mongla. The federal reserves were empty and all military and non-military aircraft were taken to West Pakistan.

On 16 December, a completely economically and in every other way destroyed Bangladesh started its journey as a free and independent state.

However, it gives a rather one-sided picture of popular Pakistani opinion.

It fails to mentions that there were people in Pakistan who were sympathetic to our cause. I dont believe in hating a whole nation because of something the national leaders are the army generals decided to do, said Arman Islam, a mother who read the school text books for the first time today.

Besides, when has a fight for independence not been bloody? Is there really any need to teach such hatred to our children? she said.

-


*Fall of East Pakistan*

By Huma Imtiaz, in Karachi

KARACHI: Thirty-nine years after a bloody and cruel war led to the creation of Bangladesh, it is shocking that the findings made by the Hamood-ur-Rehman Commission on the 1971 war, was never made public.

The 1971 war saw thousands killed, leaving permanent scars on millions of people in Bangladesh who witnessed torture and death of their countrymen at the hands of the Pakistan Army. Instead of the report, all that the new generation of Pakistanis know about the war comes from the state curriculum. However, instead of setting the record straight on the creation of Bangladesh and the reasons for the separation, students in the Matric and Intermediate levels of school (class nine through 12) are being taught conspiracy theories and a factually incorrect version of history.

While historians and academics have long decried the white-washing of the state Curriculum, it is appalling that in the twenty-first century, the government is yet to make changes in the syllabi being taught to Pakistans future generation.

The Pakistan Studies textbook for Class nine and ten fails to mention Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto or the role of the PPP throughout the essay on Bangladesh and the 1971 War. Following are a few of the reasons listed in the textbook for the Fall of East Pakistan.

Role of Hindu teachers

A large number of Hindu teachers were teaching in the educational institutions in East Pakistan. They produced such literature which created negative thinking in the minds of Bengalis against the people of West Pakistan.

International Conspiracies

About 10 million Hindus were living in East Pakistan. India stood at the back of these Hindus to protect their interests. India wanted to separate East Pakistan to strengthen the economic position of the Hindus. Many Hindus acted as spies for India. Russia was against Pakistan because Pakistan had allowed America to establish military bases in Pakistan. On the other hand, America also wanted separation of East Pakistan. Under the circumstances Russia openly supported Indias aggression against Pakistan.

The Pakistan Studies textbooks of classes ten and eleven have a broader, yet still incorrect version of the story behind the creation of Bangladesh.

Ultimately, the Martial Law authorities decided to use the armed forces. In the military operations, the armed volunteers of Jamaat-e-Islami also took part and used the occasion to settle old scores with their political opponents. As a result of military action, many workers of the Awami League fled to India and took refuge there. India trained and armed these workers and sent them back to East Pakistan to fight against the Pakistan Army. These armed volunteers of Mukti Bahini continued their struggle and guerrilla activities. On December 3, 1971 the war between Pakistan and India began. Due to the lack of support of the local populace and the poor arrangements of supply of men and material, Pakistani solders (sic) surrender before the Indian army on December 16, 1971 whereas the ceasefire on West Pakistan front was declared without launching a significant attack. On December 16, 1971 East Pakistan became an independent and free state of Bangladesh.

Nowhere, in both textbooks is there a mention of the documented atrocities committed by the Pakistan Army  which includes rapes, targeted killings  against the Mukti Bahini and the genocide of the Bengali population. The textbooks also fail to mention the number of civilian deaths in East Pakistan in the period leading up to the creation of Bangladesh. Nor does it mention Zulfiqar Ali Bhuttos inflexible stand on sharing power with Mujib-ur-Rehmans Awami League. Instead, conspiracies, speculation on the role of the populace and issues like language and Indias involvement are given precedence over assigning blame to those involved in the separation of East and West Pakistan.

Abbas Hussain, Director of the Teachers Development Centre, terms this version of history, a farce. We give our children hocus pocus in textbooks. When asked how teachers feel about teaching their students such material, Hussain replied, Most teachers have classroom schizophrenia, where the children and teachers are in a sort of conspiracy that there is a real world outside the classroom and there is a fictitious world in the classroom and you jolly well obey that!

Pervez Hoodbhoy, a noted academic and Professor of Physics at the Quaid-e-Azam University in Islamabad, says, Forty years later, Bangladesh has many disputes with India but it shows not the slightest inclination to reintegrate with Pakistan. If Pakistans schoolbooks actually taught honest history, they would be explaining why East Pakistanis felt exploited and fought for their independence. Instead, our children are taught ****-and-bull conspiracy nonsense.

By contrast, the history textbooks being taught in OLevels have a far more clear and precise version of history that does not reek of state censorship. Rizwana Zahid Ahmeds Pakistan  The Real Picture (A Comprehensive History Course) highlights the atrocities committed by the Pakistan Army:

Before the Assembly session could take place, General Tikka, the Governor of East Pakistan, launched a military operation against the members of the Mukti Bahini, the militant wing of the Awami League, which was allegedly being funded by India. In this operation, many indiscriminate killings took place.

While reports of atrocities committed by the Pakistani Army increased, so did the retaliation, often brutal, by the Bengalis against the army. The army was really fighting a war on two fronts, against the Indian aggression as well as the local people. The situation began to get hopelessly out of control.

Ahmeds book does not shy away from revealing the prejudices against Bengalis that were prevalent in post 1947-society:

The West Pakistanis viewed the East Pakistanis as being inferior, a fact that has been mentioned even in the biography of Field Marshal Ayub Khan. The fact remains, however, that the East Pakistanis were culturally superior to West Pakistanis in their love of art, literacy, interest in music and poetry.

As a solution, Hussain is of the opinion that the government should open the marketplace and allow a variety of schoolbooks to be taught to children. The teachers shouldnt teach textbooks as the only true version. They can make students look at a variety of newspaper accounts from that time, from The New York Times, Guardian, etc. Hussain feels that where access to the internet isnt available, the government can provide printed packs containing hard copies (of supplementary material) to teachers.

Hoodbhoy says that Pakistan Studies must not be used as an ideological instrument but, instead, as a means of furthering genuine knowledge about Pakistan. Unfortunately for Pakistan, the guardians of ideological purity installed by General Zia have kept their posts. They must be evicted, and genuine scholars must set curricula and write textbooks.

When asked what effect this curriculum has had on the millions of students that have been taught an incorrect version of history, Hoodbhoy answered, Nations that face their history honestly have a better chance of surviving and progressing than those that raise their future citizens on a diet of lies. Because the lessons of East Pakistan have been lost, most Pakistanis cannot understand why Balochistan is such an angry province today.

Hussain echoes Hoodbhoys views, I am a great follower of Lord Buddhas saying, Children who are fed lies breed violence.

Thirty-nine years have passed since Bangladesh was created. Surely, it is time to set the record straight and tell the future generation of Pakistanis what really led to the fall of East Pakistan.

Huma Imtiaz works as a journalist in Pakistan and can be reached at huma.imtiaz@gmail.com

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## bd_4_ever

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> freedom by breaking a muslim country with help of a non muslim country , i would prefer i die than this.



So what you mean is we did not have the right to be free just because we were/are a muslim country...?? 


Cheers!!!

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## pak-marine

santro said:


> It is sad..
> That the man who was marked by Jinnah for early retirement or essentially to be kicked out of the Pakistan Army.. assumed its helm using devious and cunning and kept it for ten years.. ruining it in the process.
> That this man.. who on written testaments by his british superiors in Burma during WWII.. deserted his positions and refused to lead his men into battle.. Led the nation into suicide in 65.. showed pure racist hatred against Bengali's and other less fair races.. ..and then had the audacity to write in his book that he "would not preside over the destruction of Quaid's Pakistan"..(rather let Yahya khan do it).
> 
> Those that truly supported Pakistan..believed in it.. were sidelined.. and people like Liaqat Ali Khan...about whom Fatima Jinnah narrates that he came to see how long the Quaid had left.. took power..
> Businessmen.. racially and financially motivated opportunists took over Pakistan right after the Quaid died..
> 
> And the people arent all innocent either.. falling prey to such blatant lies.. believing in such leaders...led to 71.
> Where when the IN has attacked Karachi harbor.. and the fuel tanks in manora were aflame..the Naval chief who was drunk beyond limits.. remarks to his son.."WHat A lovely bonfire!!"..
> When the IA was advancing towards Dhaka..
> Gen Niazi was busy in orgies.. and did not wish to hear reports on the frontline.
> 
> Even further back.. in 67..when Bengali intellectuals had begun to ask openly questions about the biased treatment against them.. instead of hearing them out.. they where declared traitors.
> 
> Was not any love between the west and the east?.. could there have been?
> Had the people and not the politicians met.. things might have been different.
> But even today.. its the same all around.. in our country..
> Calls of "jaag Punjabi jaag"..."Pakistan na Khappay".. and the certificates for being a Muslim..
> There a lot to be learned from 71.. unfortunately.. the only ones that learnt anything are the Bengali's and the Indians..



very well said sir ... we havent learned a thing from the fall of dhaka , the same estabilishment still controls pakistan , its stupid policies has brought us to a stage when there is unrest from the mountains of kp to the shores of arabian sea ... the same pakistanis like in the past have now again failed to identify the fault and stood up against this evil ! guess we are either too busy to too scared to take action


i guess there are two things we r too busy to busy to identify evil amongst us or we are scared

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## Awesome

Rehan and other Pakistanis, don't post foolish stuff without thinking.

People talking about not forgiving Bangladeshis seem to not have a problem looking at themselves. I think no serious Bangladeshi would say that India didn't have a role in inciting the Bangladeshis against Pakistan but that is India and if India won't work against Pakistan, who will?

What about our people that effed things up and gave cause for Bangladeshis to be pissed off? What about Bhutto that first supported Mujib and then opposed his election to PM. What about Ayub's negligence towards the rise of dissent in Bangladesh? What about the excesses and human rights violations?

We did do something wrong in Bangladesh, they didn't just up and leave simply because India asked them to.

Now it has happened, its not going to unhappen, everything else from here on should be about improving that.

Forgive na karke konsa maarka marlo ge?

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## pak-marine

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> hahhahaha material is there in very simple statement but you don,t want to accept reality. actually you are so much imbued in natioalism and racism that you don,t want to pay attention to some harsh ralities and blunder done on name of rights and by playing in hands of india and some other anti PAKISTAN powers.
> i accept blunders by our uncapable and weak leadership but we cann,t put whole onus on them they were not the only agent.
> in reality actual agents for that crisis was awami league itself nad staement by mugeeb is full proof of it that from very 1st day of inception of PAKISTAN he was working for the separation of bangladesh. it clearly shows their eveil plasn that they executed with the help of india an other powers ...
> it is quite unfortunate that our incompetent leaders through their weak leadership provided them with full oppertunity to execute their evel plans....



the same bengalis struggled a lot for pakistan , we have too look at the reasons why bengalis supported the idea of separation ? rather then showing anger towards

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## chisty_chowdhury

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> bangalies happy to get freedom from PAKISTAN and become slave of india.........



Watched a program in Geo News at 13:30 PST you also can watch it if aired again. I do not want to go to the details of this as we all know and Pakistan, Bangladesh and India have learned the lesson.

Stick to the code and be polite. We are not the slave of India.....
The drone attack is not in Bangladesh. Where is it.....?
The continuous bomb blast is not in Bangladesh. Where is it.....?

It is clear that who is suffering after loosing Bangladesh.
India got nothing but a new born Muslim country who will never become a slave of any country.
If and only if West Pakistani Generals didn't imposes torture into our innocent peoples and admit the defeat in the election and handover the power to Shekh Mujib the then Pakistan would be intact as a whole. 

West Pakistani Generals feared that Shekh Mujib would ties with India.
Which was not correct. They could just observe the situation for 2 or 3 month and options were always in the table.

East Pakistan got Independence and become Bangladesh.

Recall the 1965 war we won against India. When General Ayub Khan asked who is there to sacrifice for his motherland, it was the Bengali soldier stood first and then sacrifice there life with bomb in there chest under the Indian tanks.

We do not want to recall the History because it is bitter and we had no other choice. I am proud of my country.

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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

pak-marine said:


> the same bengalis struggled a lot for pakistan , we have too look at the reasons why bengalis supported the idea of separation ? rather then showing anger towards



sir answer is there, 
two factors 
1) our poor and visionless and carpetbegger leadership that was unable to keep balance and harmony that provided anti PAKISTAN elements to execute their evil plans 
2) indian agents under cover of bangali nationalsim that raised racisl jealousy among our bangali brothers and poor handling of that issue by our power hungry leaders worstened the situation and led to legtimacy of thsoe separatist movements ...

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## Awesome

chisty_chowdhury said:


> We do not want to recall the History because it is bitter and we had no other choice. I am proud of my country.



Yes of course no point in that, but I'm hopeful that the present government would have a change of mindset in Bangladesh and look towards the future more favorably.

From everyone that matters, in Pakistan, Bangladesh is keenly sought for friendship. Unfortunately a lot of undoing has happened that was previously built upon in the Musharraf-Zia era.

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## chisty_chowdhury

We also have love and soft corner for Pakistani brothers.
The main problem is if any one provoke about our independence and called us slave it is very tough to stay quiet. 


Lets work together to make this PDF more reasonable.

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## Awesome

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> sir answer is there,
> two factors
> 1) our poor and visionless and carpetbegger leadership that was unable to keep balance and harmony that provided anti PAKISTAN elements to execute their evil plans
> 2) indian agents under cover of bangali nationalsim that raised racisl jealousy among our bangali brothers and poor handling of that issue by our power hungry leaders worstened the situation and led to legtimacy of thsoe separatist movements ...


First catch our own people, they are still in power, same Bhuttos, same generals, same enforced democracy, same no popular actions, same in justice, same everything.

You are more complainy about what India did, that is India, India will do it. Big deal, why don't you go and do something like that in India? You can't because you're still the same - still weak.

I called you foolish because every word you have said here, only makes you weaker. There is strength in acceptance, because from there would come correction of oneself.

Your core is corrupted, how can you possibly go around finding faults in others when you're messed up from the core. Be real

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## Pagla Dashu

Asim Aquil said:


> I think no serious Bangladeshi would say that India didn't have a role in *inciting* the Bangladeshis against Pakistan but that is India and if India won't work against Pakistan, who will?





Asim Aquil said:


> You are more complainy about what India did, that is India, India will do it.


Nice job at underhanded jab at Bengali nationalism and an overhanded propaganda against India, all the while masquerading as deep introspection.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Asim Aquil said:


> First catch our own people, they are still in power, same Bhuttos, same generals, same enforced democracy, same no popular actions, same in justice, same everything.


I would argue that that is incorrect - ZA Bhutto and the Military leadership that decided on a particular course of action are no longer around. You can only hold individuals accountable, not the entire institution, especially years later.

On Zardari, while his policies towards Baluchistan and autonomy for all the provinces are to be lauded in terms of being based on building political consensus and compromise between all stake holders, he also almost repeated ZA Bhutto/Yahya Khan's mistakes by disqualifying the Sharifs and dismissing their government in Punjab during the Long March crises.

Granted that Punjab would not have seceded had Zardari's plan worked, but it would have invited anarchy and chaos through the denial of a popularly elected government's right to govern. That is why I see Kiyani's role during that time, in cajoling/forcing/threatening Zardari to back down and compromise, far more favorably than do other political commentators. 

Beyond that I agree with your points, the core continues to be rotten, the elected governments continue to deliver poorly on governance, and the history taught in our schools needs to reflect some hard truths about the impact of intolerance, denial of political freedom and inequality on peoples and specifically on Jinnah's Pakistan in 1971.

That said, I don't think India's role in the events should be ignored and white washed either.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Pagla Dashu said:


> Nice job at underhanded jab at Bengali nationalism and an overhanded propaganda against India, all the while masquerading as deep introspection.



Nice job at trolling and your usual racism, flames and hatred. You should have been banned a long time ago when I realized you were Toxic_Pus/Karnivore/Ram Gorur with yet another ID. I thought I'd give you another chance, but it is obvious you cannot get over your hateful mindset.

bye.

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## integra

whats wrong with the mods? every thread related to the vicotry day celebration is being deleted. Isn't it obvious that we being Bangladeshi will create threads regarding it.? You people are acting like noobs

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## kobiraaz

i have always felt Vutto's high ambition is the main cause of 1971 tragedy.......and India took the opportunity.... Yahiya failed to realize the situation... Sheikh Muzib always wanted to be Pakistan's PM... this is why he didnt declare independence before 25th march..... dont call us traitor ...after searchlight there was no other option left for East Pakistanis......

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

integra said:


> whats wrong with the mods? every thread related to the vicotry day celebration is being deleted. Isn't it obvious that we being Bangladeshi will create threads regarding it.? You people are acting like noobs



Depends on the content. So far it has been way below par. If you cannot celebrate victory day respectfully and with courtesy for Pakistan and Pakistanis, given that you are on a Pakistani forum, then don't expect to have those threads last.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Bangla fighter said:


> i have always felt Vutto's high ambition is the main cause of 1971 tragedy.......and India took the opportunity.... Yahiya failed to realize the situation... Sheikh Muzib always wanted to be Pakistan's PM... this is why he didnt declare independence before 25th march..... dont call us traitor ...*after searchlight there was no other option left for East Pakistanis*......



There were options! if u hadnt played in the hands of indian proxy and bloody politicians........ just imagine where we would have been today!

A country with 3 or 4th largest army,30-40 billion dollars in reserves! A diverse country! ...... heck Pakistan was created by people of both countries! not just west pakistanis!

Imagine wat they would be feeling today!
Brothers killing brothers and the enemy winning!

.................

I was born in the 90s! but still whenever i think abt BD i get goose bumps and tears roll out of my eyes!A very bad pain rises from my heart tht paralyzes my soul!

Once U were my brother my country fellow! i would have given my life for u!
But today where do u stand? who won 71 war?Pakistan?Bangladesh? NO neither......... india did!

*With tears in eyes and pain in my heart"Oh! deathly cold December, thou shall always be in mourning". *

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## integra

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Depends on the content. So far it has been way below par. If you cannot celebrate victory day respectfully and with courtesy for Pakistan and Pakistanis, given that you are on a Pakistani forum, then don't expect to have those threads last.



I don think anyone is disrespecting anyone here. Neither claiming who won or what. Our victory day doesn mean that its our national hatred day. Heck the thought wouldn even come into my mind if you guys didn shred the threads. 
Anyways you are an admin and I think you are supposed to understand the wider picture.

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## TechLahore

sparklingway said:


> Written by one of the greatest, if not the greatest intellectual born in Pakistan,



Ouch. Off topic, but these words above are too... Please do the rest of us a favour and add "in my opinion" just to make these jarring words sound a little less painful 

You could characterize him as the only individual involved in a "conspiracy" to kidnap the US Sec. of State who not only lived to tell the tale, but, strangely, enjoyed an apt. in NYC and access to the highest levels of US officialdom after the event.

Isn't he also your buddy Hoodbhoy's uncle in law? 

p.s> and oh, eqbal ahmed was not born in Pakistan.

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## Solomon2

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> You can only hold individuals accountable, not the entire institution, especially years later.


Why not? In our Declaration of Independence many abuses of King George III upon his American subjects are listed. But Americans did not choose a new monarch, or representation within the British Parliament: 



> ...We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.



The power structure, the sum total of government decision-making by individuals, was held sufficient to denounce the _entire_ institution.

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## Spring Onion

shekhar said:


> i wonder still pak gov doensnt mention the mistake they did i mean bangaladesh's population was 54% but their share was just 7 to 8% in gov posts still they feel tat it was india who divided pak
> india actually took advantage of opportunity which was made during last 25 years
> india came to picture in only last 2 years thats it




Govt posts was not a big issue. the seeds of hate were sown much before by traitor mujeeb. his speech at the time of independence is also an eye opener. he at that time tried to create divide on the basis of language.

Our politicians had committed blunders no doubt, they did not accepted the verdict of the people who voted for Bengali Pakistani politicians. Along with our own blunders All this was exploited by India for State Terrorism in Pakistan.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Solomon2 said:


> Why not? In our Declaration of Independence many abuses of King George III upon his American subjects are listed. But Americans did not choose a new monarch, or representation within the British Parliament:
> 
> 
> The power structure, the sum total of government decision-making by individuals, was held sufficient to denounce the _entire_ institution.



Americans changed the system of government they followed, they did not end government itself, nor did the US end the 'military' despite its use by King George to suppress and gain control.

The current British monarchy and military are not held responsible for the many colonizations, occupations and atrocities committed by the British monarchy and military through history, are they?


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## TechLahore

Solomon2 said:


> The power structure, the sum total of government decision-making by individuals, was held sufficient to denounce the _entire_ institution.



And here I thought it was Cheney alone who was the bloodthirsty second coming of vlad the impaler, while all the while I should have been attacking US gov and society, from where Cheney sprung forth. What a lovely, peaceful and conciliatory world view you have!

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

TechLahore said:


> And here I thought it was Cheney alone who was the bloodthirsty second coming of vlad the impaler, while all the while I should have been attacking US gov and society, from where Cheney sprung forth. What a lovely, peaceful and conciliatory world view you have!



Quite true - I have made this point before, that for all the inequality in resources and power sharing East Pakistan had to endure, it was nothing, not even close, along the lines of the racism, deprivation and discrimination Blacks and other minorities had to face in the Americas, and to a lesser degree continue to face today.

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## Solomon2

Mod comment: [techlahore] - sorry solomon2 please repost if something has been lost below: _Response: just the part in italics was lost.
_

Actually, the complaints about the abuse of King George's military were listed in the Declaration of Independence and some of their remedies form part of the U.S. Constitution.
Was that what led to policies of 'manifest destiny' and the wars against Mexico and the occupation and usurpation of large parts of their country?

The Brits did eventually learn something from their American defeat, as illustrated by their very different way of choosing to handle unrest in Canada in the nineteenth century. Has the rump of Pakistan really learned anything?

_"The Bengalis left, that's great, how far up did I move on the promotion ladder?"_

"Let the Taliban take over Swat, the people will hate them more than us and we can go back in afterward and never have to reform our rule at all."


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## kobiraaz

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> There were options! if u hadnt played in the hands of indian proxy and bloody politicians........ just imagine where we would have been today!
> 
> A country with 3 or 4th largest army,30-40 billion dollars in reserves! A diverse country! ...... heck Pakistan was created by people of both countries! not just west pakistanis!
> 
> Imagine wat they would be feeling today!
> Brothers killing brothers and the enemy winning!
> 
> .................
> 
> I was born in the 90s! but still whenever i think abt BD i get goose bumps and tears roll out of my eyes!A very bad pain rises from my heart tht paralyzes my soul!
> 
> Once U were my brother my country fellow! i would have given my life for u!
> But today where do u stand? who won 71 war?Pakistan?Bangladesh? NO neither......... india did!
> 
> *With tears in eyes and pain in my heart"Oh! deathly cold December, thou shall always be in mourning". *




.... reunification is not possible..... but after 2014 BD PAK relationship will be closer than anytime in past.......

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## RabzonKhan

*Lessons of December 16*

Dawn
I.A Rehman


*TODAY, Dec 16, Pakistan`s opinion-makers will once again raise a loud wail and lament the final act in their country`s dismemberment almost half a century ago. It will again be a ritualistic display of grief and no one will be convinced of its genuineness.*

Nothing will be gained by beating chests, like Mary, Queen of Scots, did over the loss of Calais. The mourning will have meaning if the people of Pakistan took stock of their establishment`s acts of commission and omission that drove the Bengalis out of the state that they more than any other community had helped create barely 24 years earlier. This exercise, which should include repentance as well as a legitimate reappraisal, is necessary if Pakistan is to ward off the danger of its demise as a democratic polity and the threat to its integrity.

*Pakistan`s founding fathers were so greatly carried away by the Muslim League`s 1945-46 electoral victory across the subcontinent and the euphoria created by partition just a year later that they ignored the challenge posed by the provincial units` rising aspirations for autonomy.* The 1919 scheme of diarchy had given the provincial authorities control over agriculture, education, public works and local bodies, key departments because of their relevance to the largest sections of their populations. It was this heady feeling of empowerment in one`s own yard that had emboldened Fazl-i-Husain to tell the Quaid to stay away from Punjab and Sikandar Hayat to present an alternative to the scheme suggested in the Lahore Resolution. The same was the feeling in other provinces, a fact conceded by the authors of the Lahore (subsequently Pakistan) Resolution while deciding on its language  and which has haunted the rulers of Pakistan all of its 63 years.

The East Bengal people`s aspirations for maximum power at the provincial level had an extra dimension. They had had a share in the Bengal government for 10 continuous years (1937-47)  led by Muslim premiers. But they had not forgotten how much more power they had enjoyed when Bengal had been first divided in 1905. The partition of 1947 gave them the province they had in 1905. Only full autonomy could mitigate the pain of loss of authority over West Bengal, especially Calcutta.

*However, they were more than willing to restrain their desire for power for the sake of making Pakistan a success. They agreed to elect Muslim League leaders from minority provinces to the constituent assembly, they accepted the formula of bureaucrats` promotion whose beneficiaries were all non-Bengalis except one, they also accepted Karachi as the new state`s capital and the fact that the offices of the governor-general, the prime minister, the president of the constituent assembly and the East Bengal governor were held by non-Bengalis. These gestures were not appreciated; instead a tendency to take the people of East Bengal for granted started taking root.*

*Before partition actually took place the Quaid-i-Azam briefly acknowledged East Bengal`s yearning for autonomy by allowing Suhrawardy to make a bid for keeping Bengal united but after that Pakistan`s leaders closed their ears to autonomy demands, beginning with their unwise language policy.* Mujib might have indulged in exaggeration when he said that the denial of permission to a Bengali member to make oath in his mother tongue at the first session of the constituent assembly marked the beginning of his people`s alienation from Pakistan, *but the fact is that the country`s establishment failed to realise that denial of a people`s language is one of the first warnings of their loss of identify and sovereignty.*

*The policies of the centre took little time to make the people of East Bengal aware of their status as a colony. Provincial elections were held in the western wing in 1951-52, the Bengalis were made to wait till 1954 and then the elected representatives were not allowed to rule in peace. *A strong man, Iskander Mirza was sent to drill them into submission. By and by the people of East Bengal became aware of the scale of denial of their rights.

*Ayub Khan tried a trade-off between the Bengali people`s rights and mega-projects and set Monem Khan after them. At the same time the hollowness of the strategy of defending East Bengal by making the defence of Lahore strong was exposed. This was a strategy effective in the Middle Ages when defence was an exclusively military affair and the people`s relationship with the state did not matter.*

*Yahya Khan seemed determined to preside over Pakistan`s dissolution. He tried to use his `gift` of a general election and acceptance of Bengali majority in the constitution-making body to bargain in his and his class`s interest. When this tactic failed he unleashed a war he had no chance of winning.* He relied on ineffective patrons and turned effective actors into enemies. The day by-elections were decided upon to fill the seats of parliamentarians who had fled across the border the final countdown to Pakistan`s disintegration began. Among other things, the Bengali people`s courage and grit in conducting their war of liberation contributed to a quicker than expected end.

No narrative on political blunders over two decades can be as simple and one-sided as the foregoing paragraphs may suggest. True, an inexperienced, resource-starved and rather inadequate leadership at the centre did not possess the means to satisfy East Bengal`s aspirations. The preoccupation with security problems and external factors complicated matters. The politicians lacked the will and the mental capacity to resist being outmanoeuvred by an alliance of over-ambitious civil and military bureaucrats. But politicians who can keep their wits in fair weather only have no right to high offices; they can only invite disaster. They did just that.

Historians and analysts are unlikely to give up their attempts to identify who were heroes and who were the villains in the East Bengal story and at what point Pakistan started breaking up. *Perhaps it is time to realise that Pakistan came to grief by adopting a flawed policy towards East Bengal from day one.*

Whatever the causes the founding fathers did not grasp the dynamics of provincial politics. When Ghulam Mohammad sacked Nazimuddin and then dissolved the constituent assembly he destroyed Bengal`s confidence in the rulers` commitment to constitutionalism. The strategy for winning the hearts of the Bengali people comprised developmental bribes and control through quislings. No people will forever surrender their rights to political power, social progress and cultural identity for tinsel. And throughout the two decades that East Bengal formed part of Pakistan religion was used as the only cement to preserve the state`s integrity.

*The Bengalis were more religious than their western compatriots but they had no use for a religion that smacked of occupation and oppression. Pakistan had to pay the price of ignoring the lesson humankind (including Arabs) learnt after many sanguinary contests, that religion has never, nowhere defeated the rising tide of nationalism.

Dec 16 is the appropriate occasion to realise that the laws of history have not changed.*

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Solomon2 said:


> [/COLOR]Mostly we _returned_ to local democratic rule, like the independent township system of New England. It was a conservative revolution, meant to return control from the supranational institution that had tried to seize control.


Americans returned to 'local democratic rule' for the few the founders thought deserved it - obviously the 'deeper lesson' of 'oppressing a people' didn't really sink in given the hundreds of years of slavery and segregation that were to follow. 


> Actually, the complaints about the abuse of King George's military were listed in the Declaration of Independence and some of their remedies form part of the U.S. Constitution.


Was that what led to policies of 'manifest destiny' and the wars against Mexico and the occupation and usurpation of large parts of their country?


> The Brits did eventually learn something from their American defeat, as illustrated by their very different way of choosing to handle unrest in Canada in the nineteenth century. Has the rump of Pakistan really learned anything?
> 
> "The Bengalis split? Let's see the seniority list...maybe I'll go up the ladder sooner."


That was in the immediate aftermath was it not? Humans will retain their flaws - it was also a Pakistani who found the incident repulsive that narrated it.


> "Let the Taliban take over Swat, the people will hate them more than us and we can go back in afterward and never have to reform our rule at all."


More along the lines of 'give dialog, negotiations and power sharing a chance, especially since the overwhelming majority of people support that policy and will likely not support a military operation, and without that support a military operation is doomed in the long run in any case'.

But don't let nuance and ground realities get in the war of your non-stop, irrational Pakistan bashing.

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## abrahams

Happy independence day!!!

Hope you have every freedom .. whatever you wish for...

well instead of bickering.. how they got their freedom and stuff... maybe everyone should wish them all the best and get moving...

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## Omar1984

Most of Pakistanis were not born in 1971, but even our elders dont hold any grudges.


Many Pakistanis think it was a blessing in disguise.

Before 1971, East Pakistan's (Bangladesh) population was much more than West Pakistan's (Pakistan) population. 

If we were still one country, today Pakistan's population would be more than 300 million and our cities would've been more populated with much more ethnic conflicts.


Pakistanis are not like indians, we hold no grudges of an event when most Pakistanis were not even alive and we wish Bangladesh all the best.

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## integra

DRDO said:


> Just 2% paid protesters cant compared to that episode



and thats where the history repeats itself.


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## TechLahore

IND151 said:


> *the lesson is if you underestimate oppressed people of your own nation you pay price.*


*

I am glad you are aware of this lesson. Now perhaps you can also learn from it.*

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## ajtr

DRDO said:


> First of all this thread is not about Kashmir
> 
> And this is the naked truth about protest
> Money was behind Kashmir protests: Militant leader


Sure this thread is not about kashmir but this thread concerns with india too with its role in 1971 war.and there is bangladesh analogy wrt kashmir on same indian subcontinent for another war of liberation.And that the news article u ve posted we i just too fool youself to keep u ignominious about kashmir struggle.


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## Mabs

In the case of East Pakistan, it was not nationalism. They did not perceived themselves to be a different nation than Pakistan, they just loved their culture and traditions. The Bengali culture is different and beautiful,no doubt about it,all cultures are.

The creation of Bangladesh was a combination of hosts of issues which were simmering for a while and were not addressed.The Elites ignored the strong affiliation that Bengalis feel with their culture and the Bengalis misunderstood the strong feeling that Pakistanis have for their motherland. There were misconceptions and suspicions on both side.

We lost the Unity between us which gave room to outsiders to weaken our Faith in each other and in the idea of Pakistan,and when things became nasty,we lost our Discipline.Brothers butchered brothers without any hesitation.

Things could have been handled much better,West Pakistanis should have recognized and appreciated the Bengali culture and its significance to the East Pakistanis, and East Pakistanis should have been more circumspect.After all,today we live in a Pakistan,where one province is named after an ethnic group(i.e KP),and another just celebrated its culture with pride with no reservations from anyone else.(Sindhi Topi and Ajrak Day)

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## ajtr

Capt.Popeye said:


> Nice thoughts!
> Only one question- When do you see all that reaching fruition?
> In your lifetime, perhaps?
> 
> In the meanwhile, Good Wishes to the Republic of Bangladesh. May the Bangladeshi people and the Republic achieve their rightful place and all the progress and prosperity that is indeed their destiny!


even british used to tell sun never sets on british empire...where it is now????


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## SQ8

There is also a certain section which states that Mujib was never interested in independence..his wish was rights.. but the west pakistan establishment did not allow him an inch. 
Whether true or not.. the chance to avert this was lost in 1970.. 
and anybody who would have tried to change the direction of events..would have been killed by the Mukti bahni's .or RAW...
People admire Bhutto's tearing of the resolution in the UN.. 
but think about it.. 
had the ceasefire been accepted.. the PA would not have had to surrender..
they could have simply withdrawn..and the capitulation in Shimla would not have happened.

There are other authors..who quote people from the Hyeson corporation(close to the PPP).. who even predicted the time period for the separation of the eastern wing..as they considered it a white elephant for the rest of Pakistan's business interest..as the Golden yarn was no longer what it used to be.

And in some way.. I personally feel the separation of bangladesh left pakistan to the real Jackals.. the maudoodi (and various others) inspired "revivalists"..
Since the Hindu population of Bangladesh would have provided some balance to these misguided souls.

Still.. it was this Hindu population that formed the initial core of the Mukti Bahni..
however.. instead of tackling it smartly..our establishment chose the most idiotic approach possible.
Even in the employment of forces.. "tiger(read pussycat)" niazi used the worst possible tactic for his forces. deliberately spreading them thin..

Fate.. it seems.had planned Bangladesh from the start..or were the Bengali's simply tired of pledge never fulfilled and tired of the same history.
Fate..it seems had no love for Pakistan...or are the Pakistani's never tired of repeating history.....

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## Solomon2

TechLahore said:


> And here I thought it was Cheney alone who was the bloodthirsty second coming of vlad the impaler, while all the while I should have been attacking US gov and society, from where Cheney sprung forth. What a lovely, peaceful and conciliatory world view you have!


_2nd post, 1st disappeared_

This is not clear to me, can you explain your ideas more fully?


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## Md Akmal

*THE WAY I SAW IT* 

_During the Liberation War of 1971, I was a student of class seven and reading in a residential school. Following the address of Sk Mujib our school was closed and we were sent home. In those days our communication system were not that good. Most of us had to depent on railway line. Our home was in greater Dinajpur district. So on 10/12 March 1971 I went to my home at around 11/12 pm. During those days almost everyday there was a hartal and procession. We used to enjoy all these slogans like "Joy Bangla, Tomar Amar Thikana, Padma- Meghna-Jumuna".

So, one day I went along with my mama to enjoy a Circus and"Jatra Party" on a "bail gari". It was on 21/22 March. In the circus party I enjoyed a song, " Piare bango bondhu Sk Mujibur Rahman, tu chahe, tu dede bangalee apni jane", then the whole night I enjoyed the "Jattra Party". But than suddenly some Awami Leaque leaders came and started poltical speech and said that from here we have to go for a procession in protest against Yahya Khan and so it started. I was fleeling very drowsy but still shouted with a loud voice , "Joy Bangla".

My home was in a village closer to a Thana HQ(around 3 km). On 26 March 1971 I saw in all the houses the flag of Bangladesh(Map of E Pak engraved at the middle). I also stealed one flag and and placed at the top of our house. At that time I hardly understand any politics. One day I heard that there was some problem in Dinajpur and Thakurgaon in EPR wing and than we come to know all clear and everything is under EPR control. By this time all non-Bengalies were killed in EPR, however it took 3/4 days fighting with them. Even in BOPs all non-Bengalies were killed. Then one day some EPR personnels came to our area and killed all Biharees. All Police and civil administration coperated with them. At that time all Pakistani Army were concentrated at Rangpur and Saidpur. Some of the Bengali soldiers who mutineed also came to our area and we used to hear all horror stories of Pakistan Army. Then all these EPR and soldiers were organised along with new recruits marched towards Saidpur.(To be continued) 
_

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## TechLahore

Solomon2 said:


> _2nd post, 1st disappeared_
> 
> This is not clear to me, can you explain your ideas more fully?



Not sure what is unclear. What would you like me to explain?


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## Solomon2

TechLahore said:


> Not sure what is unclear. What would you like me to explain?


The connection between my comment, "The power structure, the sum total of government decision-making by individuals, was held sufficient to denounce the entire institution" and your comment, "all the while I should have been attacking US gov and society...What a lovely, peaceful and conciliatory world view you have!"

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## TechLahore

Solomon2 said:


> The connection between my comment, "The power structure, the sum total of government decision-making by individuals, was held sufficient to denounce the entire institution" and your comment, "all the while I should have been attacking US gov and society...What a lovely, peaceful and conciliatory world view you have!"



You skipped over the part about Cheney, which is probably why you didn't get the connection.* If I were to follow your logic,* then I would arrive at the conclusion below:

The power structure in the US, which allows rich ex-CEOs with deep vested interests, such as Cheney to ascend to the highest offices and then unleash wars upon the world - an action that cannot but be the "sum-total of government decision-making" - should then be sufficient to condemn the "entire institution" from whence Cheney arose. That institution actually happens to be not one, but many institutions in Cheney's case... the US political parties, bureaucracy, corporate america and so on.

Thank God I don't buy in to your argument, otherwise I would be accusing practically all of America (i.e. all the institutions Cheney was a part of) for the misery Cheney and his ilk unleashed upon millions of innocent people across the world.


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## Awesome

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> I would argue that that is incorrect - ZA Bhutto and the Military leadership that decided on a particular course of action are no longer around. You can only hold individuals accountable, not the entire institution, especially years later.



The thing is you can argue that ZA Bhutto has gone, but you know Kal bhi Bhutto Zinda tha, aj bhi Bhutto zinda hai 

With that I mean the core issue of injustice. Fundamentally the Bangladeshis were open to Indian incitement because of the injustices levied upon them. Like in any power struggle these are oft exaggerated. But there is no point in excusing yourself with that.

Then the issue of greed of our leadership. Fill their coffers while the rest of the country goes down the drain. 

The army may not be doing the excesses in Pakistan today, but the uniformed authorities are still doing the baton charge upon lawyers and protesters. 

Ayub's injustice and inequalities were half the blow, and Bhutto's greed the other. 



> That said, I don't think India's role in the events should be ignored and white washed either.



Washed? No. Forgiven, maybe. Forgiving is not the same as forgetting. 

Just to give an example, we were in the wrong, mostly, back then. We can't link Bangladesh with Kashmir. We are in the right with Kashmir. We are 100% in the right and India 100% in the wrong. Being in the right gives you strength that will ultimately reflect in the outcomes. 

When I talk about India - I just mean that, those events should not define our view of India. As once again India would use this to exaggerate these bitter sentiments towards Bangladeshis and once again the cycle will repeat itself in pushing Bangladeshis towards them.

At some point this cycle of mistrust between us has to be broken.

---------- Post added at 10:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 PM ----------




integra said:


> whats wrong with the mods? every thread related to the vicotry day celebration is being deleted. Isn't it obvious that we being Bangladeshi will create threads regarding it.? You people are acting like noobs


That's because there is a sticky thread put up here. Shouldn't be too much of an ask to create only one thread on the one topic.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Asim Aquil said:


> With that I mean the core issue of injustice. Fundamentally the Bangladeshis were open to Indian incitement because of the injustices levied upon them. Like in any power struggle these are oft exaggerated. But there is no point in excusing yourself with that.
> 
> Then the issue of greed of our leadership. Fill their coffers while the rest of the country goes down the drain.


Well, completely agree there. The discontent in various parts of the country has at its core the issues you outlined.


> The army may not be doing the excesses in Pakistan today, but the uniformed authorities are still doing the baton charge upon lawyers and protesters.


And again I must rise to the defence of Gen. Kiyani - I believe he was adamantly against deploying the military against the Long March protesters, as Zardari allegedly wished to do in order to control them.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

TechLahore said:


> You skipped over the part about Cheney, which is probably why you didn't get the connection.* If I were to follow your logic,* then I would arrive at the conclusion below:
> 
> The power structure in the US, which allows rich ex-CEOs with deep vested interests, such as Cheney to ascend to the highest offices and then unleash wars upon the world - an action that cannot but be the "sum-total of government decision-making" - should then be sufficient to condemn the "entire institution" from whence Cheney arose. That institution actually happens to be not one, but many institutions in Cheney's case... the US political parties, bureaucracy, corporate america and so on.
> 
> Thank God I don't buy in to your argument, otherwise I would be accusing practically all of America (i.e. all the institutions Cheney was a part of) for the misery Cheney and his ilk unleashed upon millions of innocent people across the world.


I do believe that it is a version of Solomon2's argument that Al Qaeda used to justify the massacre of 3,000 innocents on 9/11, along with their other attacks/attempted attacks.


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## chisty_chowdhury

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto Interview

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## Solomon2

TechLahore said:


> You skipped over the part about Cheney, which is probably why you didn't get the connection.* If I were to follow your logic,* then I would arrive at the conclusion below:


I think you are confused, TL. To justify the logical relationship you have to argue cause-and-effect (mere association or coincidence is not the same thing) and to invoke inductive logic to draw a general conclusion you really need to produce more than one example. That's why America's Founding Fathers provided a long list.


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## Awesome

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> And again I must rise to the defence of Gen. Kiyani - I believe he was adamantly against deploying the military against the Long March protesters, as Zardari allegedly wished to do in order to control them.



I was hinting towards the police


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## Solomon2

Asim Aquil said:


> With that I mean the core issue of injustice. Fundamentally the Bangladeshis were open to Indian incitement because of the injustices levied upon them. Like in any power struggle these are oft exaggerated. But there is no point in excusing yourself with that.
> Then the issue of greed of our leadership. Fill their coffers while the rest of the country goes down the drain.
> The army may not be doing the excesses in Pakistan today, but the uniformed authorities are still doing the baton charge upon lawyers and protesters.


And if Baluchistan or the Pushtuns voice the same plea, are you willing to let them go too, or would you send in the Army, or actually listen_ and change?_


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## Awesome

Solomon2 said:


> And if Baluchistan or the Pushtuns voice the same plea, are you willing to let them go too, or would you send in the Army, or actually listen_ and change?_


Ask me what you really want to ask...


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## Solomon2

Asim Aquil said:


> Ask me what you really want to ask...


That is what I mean to ask. I think that even if the governing elite of Pakistan acknowledge that injustice is a problem, they don't feel any desire to alleviate it.

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## TechLahore

Solomon2 said:


> I think you are confused, TL. To justify the logical relationship you have to argue cause-and-effect (mere association or coincidence is not the same thing) and to invoke inductive logic to draw a general conclusion you really need to produce more than one example. That's why America's Founding Fathers provided a long list.



Quite to the contrary, Solomon2, I think you are peddling goods no one's buying. And there is a long list alright. Does one start with Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan? Hawaii? Latin America? And does one name all the people involved? Does one incorporate the delusions of "Manifest Destiny"? Does one identify repeated instances of the US employing inhumane measures from Agent Orange, to CIA torture and on and on? Does one cite instances of the nexus between US corporations and the US military and how the vested interest that results has been "protected"? Does one talk of the US invasion of Guatemala to protect the interests of United Fruit Company? The invasions of Grenada and Panama? The mining of Nicaraguan harbours and the resulting judgement against the US in the World Court? A decision the US continues to flout. The use of illegal gun running/drug money to fund the Contras?

But what would the point of it all be? I understand you live with your delusions and I also understand from interacting with you that your intentions are merely to defame Pakistan and hurl abuse in various ways against muslims and Pakistanis. So please, by all means, continue. But don't for a second think that your intent is unclear.

Good day.

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## Awesome

Solomon2 said:


> That is what I mean to ask. I think that even if the governing elite of Pakistan acknowledge that injustice is a problem, they don't feel any desire to alleviate it.


There you go, no argument there. There are good people out there, like Imran Khan, however they don't get the votes.


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## TechLahore

Asim Aquil said:


> Ask me what you really want to ask...



Tsk tsk, Asim. Don't you know we "Pakistanis" came to Pakistan on boats from the other side of the world, distributed smallpox blankets to the locals (let's call them Baluchis), killed tens of millions of them with whatever resources were available to us, then took all their land and locked them up in places we call "reservations". But so what? They were godless and we were sent by God to rule this part of the world at whatever cost... it was a destiny that was anything if not manifest. 

But it didn't stop there. Even after wiping these locals off the face of the earth and trapping them in reservations, we make sure that they continue to be do deprived that even today their per-capita income is a fraction of the rest of our country. If you visit these "reservations", you will see extremely high levels of drug and alcohol abuse, you will see gambling eating away at these communities. But Asim, look at us. We have built the world's strongest and most well armed country by commandeering the land and resources that these "locals" possessed. 

How can you possibly wonder about the question being asked? It is a very genuine and well intentioned query about the rights of Baluchis.

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## Solomon2

TechLahore said:


> Quite to the contrary, Solomon2, I think you are peddling goods no one's buying. And there is a long list alright. Does one start with Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan? -


You have moved very far from the subject of the topic thread, TL. Do you think the _hoi polloi_ in Pakistan will continue to buy your goods forever?



> I also understand from interacting with you that your intentions are merely to defame Pakistan and hurl abuse in various ways against muslims and Pakistanis.


If _I_ was being insulted or attacked verbally I like to think that I would not respond by hiding behind my fellow Jews or Americans, rather that I would confront my opponent directly. 

One approach is courageous, the other cowardly. Which approach do you think Pakistan's leaders took in 1971? How many looked at themselves rather than blame the Mukti Bahini on a Pakistan-hating but all-controlling India?


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## TechLahore

Solomon2 said:


> You have moved very far from the subject of the topic thread, TL. Do you think the _hoi polloi_ in Pakistan will continue to buy your goods forever?



I don't know. Come find out. You love playing the Pakistan expert, high time you visited us 



> One approach is courageous, the other cowardly. Which approach do you think Pakistan's leaders took in 1971? How many looked at themselves rather than blame the Mukti Bahini on a Pakistan-hating but all-controlling India?



Pretty much every Pakistani understands that we - the people and government - made mistakes which contributed to 1971. And pretty much every Pakistani also knows that our mistakes were exploited by India and that the Mukti Bahini was indeed funded and supported by India. I think the Indians say this too. No surprises for anyone involved. 

So no, India is not all-controlling, it simply did in 1971 what an enemy would do. Pakistan made mistakes. We have never said otherwise. We are trying as best as we can to make up for them by being helpful to Bangladesh whenever and wherever possible. The Bangladesh-Pakistan relationship that exists today (especially during the Khaleda gov.) is a testament to this fact. The India-Pakistan separation happened in 1947 and it very much remains a living dispute. 1971 is more recent, but BD-Pak ties are FAR better than Indo-Pak ties. That's saying something.

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## fallstuff

The following youtube video is a Bhuuto speach. I reckon the clip is incomplete. I see a clear disconnect from the people. The clip shows the unbecoming of a statesman.

One could draw a conclusion that his speech epitomizes the condescending view about the East Pakistanis held by the ruling class in West Pakistan. Operation Searchlight was the manifestation.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

^^ The first part of the speech takes a different line from the latter part in the clip - I'd say both he and the crowd got caught up in the emotion of the events that were still very recent and painful.


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## TechLahore

@fallstuff, You have COMPLETELY missed the point. Bhutto was convincing Pakistanis who were angry about 1971 to befriend Bangladesh. He used the word you probably latched on to as something those who oppose this viewpoint would say. And then he deconstructed the opposing argument.

This speech actually asks Pakistanis to embrace Bangladesh as a brother Islamic nation and as a friend.

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## Solomon2

Asim Aquil said:


> There are good people out there, like Imran Khan, however they don't get the votes.


It's not that easy. One can't rely on blind loyalty to a politician. Consider the accomplished and "popular" Mr. Bhutto, vowing to take care of the poor, but delivering needless wars that killed hundreds of thousands of people instead. 

Even politicians who have good intentions need to pursue specific policies. These should be presented in as much detail as possible and presented to the public before election - and the public poked into taking an active interest in them, if necessary. And there has to be a way, short of a military coup, of removing the executive from power if he abuses it.


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## fallstuff

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> ^^ The first part of the speech takes a different line from the latter part in the clip - I'd say both he and the crowd got caught up in the emotion of the events that were still very recent and painful.



I did notice the clip is incomplete. I can speculate that he might have addressed the concerns of the folks that is not in the clip. In the beginning of the clip seemed like he was talking about some sort of Islamic unity. Later on his speech becomes a rant.

The outburst is simply inconceivable from a leader. An outburst like that is certainly not conciliatory, but pushes the parties even farther.


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## Solomon2

TechLahore said:


> I don't know. Come find out. You love playing the Pakistan expert, high time you visited us


Not on my own dime. 


> Pretty much every Pakistani understands that we - the people and government - made mistakes which contributed to 1971.


 Uh-uh-uh! I wasn't writing about what Pakistanis believe _now_, but what Pakistani leaders thought _then_. For haven't you ever considered that Pakistanis like yourself could be making the same errors in thinking _now_ as Pakistanis did _then?_



> The India-Pakistan separation happened in 1947 and it very much remains a living dispute. 1971 is more recent, but BD-Pak ties are FAR better than Indo-Pak ties. That's saying something.


Not really. I'm sure it helps a lot that Rump Pakistan and Bangladesh don't share a common border.

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## fallstuff

TechLahore said:


> @fallstuff, You have COMPLETELY missed the point. Bhutto was convincing Pakistanis who were angry about 1971 to befriend Bangladesh. He used the word you probably latched on to as something those who oppose this viewpoint would say. And then he deconstructed the opposing argument.
> 
> This speech actually asks Pakistanis to embrace Bangladesh as a brother Islamic nation and as a friend.



If that is the case, my apologies. I was looking for a date and location of the speech but couldn't find any.

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## TechLahore

Solomon2 said:


> Not on my own dime.



Aw, you cheapskate!!  



> Not really. I'm sure it helps a lot that Rump Pakistan and Bangladesh don't share a common border.



You know what. Your views are welcome, but your insults are not. If you can learn some manners and cease to use abusive terms for Pakistan, you are welcome here. If you cannot, then please find some other pulpit to spew your abuse from. Will you continue to insult Pakistan by using the term you are using for the second time today? Please let me know either way.

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## TopCat

santro said:


> And in some way.. I personally feel the separation of bangladesh left pakistan to the real Jackals.. the maudoodi (and various others) inspired "revivalists"..



I agree.. Thats the only thing Pakistan would be missing for the years to come. Bengalis would never let Pakistan to get involved in proxy war with Soviets neither it allowed extremism.



> Since the Hindu population of Bangladesh would have provided some balance to these misguided souls.



Then you should not had separated from India in the first place.
2nd Bengalis are Bengalis, Hindus or Muslim would not make any difference. They all will do the same.



> Still.. it was this Hindu population that formed the initial core of the Mukti Bahni..



Can you name 10 Hindu name who formed core of Mukti Bahini. No offence to any of my country men. Hindus had very little to say in any political party even within AL.



> Even in the employment of forces.. "tiger(read pussycat)" niazi used the worst possible tactic for his forces. deliberately spreading them thin..



He was forced to spread them thin. His opponents were way too smart.



> Fate.. it seems.had planned Bangladesh from the start..or were the Bengali's simply tired of pledge never fulfilled and tired of the same history.
> Fate..it seems had no love for Pakistan...or are the Pakistani's never tired of repeating history.....



Dont understand what you talking about???

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## T-Faz

December 16: Bangladesh&#8217;s day of liberation &#8211; The Express Tribune Blog

Exclamations of freedom in 1971 as Dhaka is 'liberated'

The newspaper headlines in Dhaka on December 16 gave me pause: &#8220;day of liberation&#8221;, &#8220;victory day&#8221; they proclaimed in big black letters emblazoned across the masthead of the papers. In Pakistan, isn&#8217;t this day perceived as a somber occasion where Pakistan was rent asunder by the forces of evil? The answer that was evading me while scanning the newspapers came to me when I saw these words of a Bangladeshi columnist.

&#8220;The 16th of December 1971 was a day of transformation. It turned caged birds into free birds. On a single day, our life changed for the rest of our life. It was like a knife blade, which severed the past from the future. It forever erased the ignominy of being ruled by others and brought us the resplendent dawn of freedom.&#8221;

While travelling to Bangladesh, it would not be remiss to say that I was apprehensive about the feelings of the people there towards Pakistanis. After all, we had fought a war and we had lost half of Pakistan while they had gained a new country, although this chapter had been skimmed over in my school history books. We had not only been unjust towards our own people, but had also been racist and contemptuous. My father&#8217;s Bengali batchmates in Chittagong were ridiculed in public by visiting officers from West Pakistan. The drawing rooms in Karachi and Lahore at that time were full of people running down Bengalis with gusto. They were not only Hindus, but were also black, puny, scared and stupid while West Pakistanis, of course, ticked all the right boxes being tall, fair, handsome and smart.

A warm welcome in ex-Pakistan

But my misgivings proved unfounded as I was overwhelmed by the generosity of spirit displayed by Bangladeshis. Far from being hostile, people went out of their way to welcome Pakistanis. Smiling waiters said that their wish was that &#8220;our countries should not have been torn apart, because together we would have been so much stronger!&#8221; Since most Bangladeshis are great supporters of the Pakistani cricket team, every single victory would be met with unabashed joy and high spirits. When the Pakistani team lost, they would sink into depression and pepper Pakistanis with questions as to why our cricketers were playing so badly. Our shalwar kameezes elicited great admiration while exhibitions by Pakistani retailers like Bareeze were a knockout success.

The memories of war

But it would be unrealistic to expect that the ghosts of the war do not make their presence felt at times. When my father visited Dhaka, he was feted at dinner by his Bengali batchmates who he had not met for decades. Between hugs, news of long lost friends and a sumptuous dinner, I noticed a book in the drawing room which contained graphic images of the murders of intellectuals at Dhaka University during the war. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, and these pictures took on a surreal quality as I compared the blood and gore on the pages with the bonhomie between my father and his batch mates.

A Pakistani visitor remembered how she told a Bangladeshi fruit seller &#8220;Bangladesh Pakistan bhai bhai&#8221; (or Bangladesh and Pakistan are like brothers) to which he replied,

&#8220;Yes, we are brothers, but you people did not treat us right in 1971.&#8221;

An elegant Bangladeshi lady told me how her father and uncle were taken away from home in Dhaka in 1971, never to be seen again. She said she knew they were dead, but she wished that they had got their bodies back so the family could have buried them and got some kind of closure. When I said I was so sorry about what had happened to her family, she smiled, touched my hand and replied:

&#8221;It&#8217;s all right. These things happen in war time, don&#8217;t they?&#8221;

The land of Tagore

Hospitable and articulate, the Bengalis are such a multifaceted people. Their song recitals of great poets like Rabrindranath Tagore and Nazrul Islam are so melodious that one cannot help sinking into a reverie even as the unfamiliar lyrics throb in the air. The colourful dances and the joie de vire of the rhythmic dancers tend to cast it&#8217;s own spell on Bengalis and non Bengalis alike. Almost every home has a harmonium and tabla, as young and old play and sing and captivate. It is said that there is music in the soil of Bangladesh: even their monsoons have a lyrical quality about them as the trees sway, clouds gather and rain pours forth. Some argue that East Pakistan was an unnatural addition to Pakistan. How could a people so steeped in the love of their rich culture have gelled with a clueless country which has no identity, and which survives on a national security narrative which does not leave much room for anything as frivolous as music, dance and poetry?

Bangladesh: In retrospect

Instead of playing the blame game since time immemorial, and accusing our leaders or institutions or India for leading us to the unbridgeable chasm of December 16, 1971, why don&#8217;t we take a good look at ourselves? Are we all also not to blame for not speaking up for our fellow citizens as they were being bludgeoned into submission? To their credit, the Bengalis refused to bow their heads and take such discriminatory treatment. As for India, it took advantage of our disunity and overweening arrogance, but we ourselves opened the door of opportunity to usher Mrs Indira Gandhi in and hand her Bangladesh on a platter. The irony is that some of the very architects of our ignominious surrender appear in today&#8217;s talk shows tut tutting over the oppression of East Pakistanis. The faces are the same, but the tune has undergone such a drastic change. Surprisingly, not one anchor has had the guts to expose these spineless guests and their crocodile tears

The tolerance shown by the Bangladeshis towards us, despite the bad blood of 1971, makes me wonder whether we could have displayed this level of understanding towards them if the shoe had been on the other foot? The answer is no, judging by the kind of rabble rousing bigotry and hatred on display against our own people even today. As George Santayana said:

&#8220;Those who cannot learn from their history are doomed to repeat it.&#8221;

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## Husnain_Ali

I think it's good that East Pakistan separated from West Pakistan for several reasons. First, it's more than 1000 miles apart from each other. Secondly, their climate, culture and language is different. Off course there are many different languages in now Pakistan but we share more with each other than now Bangladesh. However, our one kalma makes them our brother nation. we will always be there for them whenever they need us. Whatever happened in the past cannot be changed. We should learn from it and don't let old arguments effect our brotherly relationship with each other.

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## somebozo

Bangladesh was bound to separate if not militarily then politicaly. The differences due to separate Geo-political theaters was growing day by day and keeping the union was unsustainable in the long run. Hence there were no feeling of remorse. Large part was played by politicians encouraged by India in to cook up exploitation theories. The same theories were then cooked by another Indian terrorist wing in west Pakistan but were silenced successfully. 

The Indian intervention turned the conflict into all out Indo-Pak war further confused by anti-Pakistan Bengali sentiments. And it was shameful of Pakistan army part to solve the conflict with force rather negotiations. Had it not been for incompetent bigoted generals leading PA.

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## ajtr

Husnain_Ali said:


> I think it's good that East Pakistan separated from West Pakistan for several reasons. First, it's more than 1000 miles apart from each other.


Only people i here this 1000 mile separation logic frrom pakistanis.i dont think any other country except pakistanis give such a logic.


> Secondly, their climate, culture and language is different. Off course there are many different languages in now Pakistan but we share more with each other than now Bangladesh.


 fir se be sar-pair ka logic.If you are a diverse country culturally,climate wise will that mean you will claim on on diverse part.do u see india doing it or for that matter china doing it.both are diverse countries.


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## fallstuff

F-16_Falcon said:


> if they were with us than must be working for bhartis. traitors. what happened is good for pakistan and wish of allah.



Sad you feel that way. You are a star example why the separation ( to put it in a mild way) ever took place. There was a world that existed beyond the paranoia of some Generals. The dream of the the East Pakistanis. 

There were grievances, it was clearly a failure on the part of the then West Pakistani folks to understand that. 

Indira Gandhi realized the depth of this grievance, while the Generals in West Pakistan didn't. 

I believe we, after becoming Bangladeshis, have moved beyond that, and only interested in the political rhetorics that help building the country we call Bangladesh.

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## BATMAN

I don't understand the point in starting discussion of this issue only this year!!!

Bangladesh was a separated by Indian meddling in Pakistan affairs and bunch of political activists.

Some people do not miss the opportunity to start anti Pakistan discussions.

Mods. close the thread, as it is an attempt to baselessly defaming Pakistan and its army.

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## Al-zakir

Bangla fighter said:


> .... reunification is not possible..... but after 2014 BD PAK relationship will be closer than anytime in past.......



Where have you gotten this information from? We are in 2010 and the relation between Bangladesh-Pakistan is 6 feet under so where the hell you have come up with this imagination???

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## Al-zakir

*Stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh: Did They Commit Some Mistake of Judgment?
*Posted on 16 December 2010

Faiz Al-Najdi 
Riyadh
December 16 is such a day that it reverberates the thoughts of the breakup of Pakistan, creation of a new country Bangladesh and the gory tales of the plight of many that began that day and unfortunately continues to-date. One such people are the 250,000 stranded Pakistanis (also known as stranded Biharis) languishing in the ghetto-like shanties spread over the urban sprawls of Bangladesh, since that fateful day. Despite all odds lined up against them, by Pakistan, Bangladesh, the International community, OIC and the so-called Muslim Ummah, they are waiting in vain in the false hope of getting repatriated someday to their chosen home  Pakistan.
Much has been written and spoken on this subject. The list of the advocates for this cause remains countless, some have passed away and some have grown old. Noted intellectual Ahmed Ilias (an erstwhile Pakistani who was denied repatriation to Pakistan and is now a Bangladeshi citizen) in his book Biharis: The Indian Émigrés in Bangladesh, An objective Analysis has dwelt upon in lucid details the political and social developments encompassing whatever happened in the former East Pakistan. It focuses on the accounts of the events before and after the partition on 14 August 1947 to the ultimate debacle that led to the events of the 16 December 1971 surrender of the Pak Army and eventual creation of Bangladesh.
He writes that in todays Bangladesh, Biharis are the descendants of those optees and emigrants who came to East Bengal after the great divide of India in 1947. It is mentioned that much before 1947, many government employees under the British administration were deputed to various places in East Bengal. Among them a large number of people came from the then province of Bihar to serve in the railways, in the police, judiciaries and other civil departments. It is also often claimed that more than two hundred years ago ancestors of the present day Biharis of Northern Bengal migrated from Bihar and permanently settled down there. And, in 1947 at the time of partition, the British government gave choice to all of its service holders asking them of their option for the country  India or Pakistan  that they wanted to serve. In response, a vast majority of the Indian Muslim employees opted for Pakistan and likewise the Hindus opted for India. Some of the Bihari Muslim optees were sent to the then West Pakistan and the rest were asked to take up duty in the then East Pakistan  now Bangladesh.
Ahmed Ilias further writes that it was a Bihari leader  Moulana Raghib Ahsan (1904-1975) who in fact gave leadership to the historic Direct Action Day in Calcutta on 16 August 1946 to forge and demonstrate the support of Indian Muslims for creation of Pakistan. This was followed by Noakhali and Bihar riots. Hussain Shaheed Suhrawardy was the main man lending support to the Muslims in Noakhali. A year later, the bloody consequences of both of these riots ultimately led to the creation of Pakistan on 14 August 1947. When Pakistan was established, both Suhrawardy and Raghib Ahsan disassociated with Pakistan Muslim League and formed their own political groups in the then East Pakistan. Suhrawardy pioneered formation of the Awami League. Raghib Ahsan, being his close associate mobilized the Mohajirs (refugees) in East Pakistan and formed the Anjuman-e-Mohajreen-wal-Ansar. This was to protect and promote the Mohajir cause with local support.
At the time of the partition the economic status of both East and West Pakistan was more or less at par with each other. However, as the time elapsed West Pakistan was seen to attain prosperity while the East, down with frequent natural calamities like floods and typhoons, continued to struggle to sustain and survive. The mainstay of the national economy then came from jute which was produced in East Pakistan. Its an irony that most mill owners of jute mills then were non-Bengalis. And, allegedly the income earned via jute mills continued to be transferred to West Pakistan. So much so that when the new capital city was developed by Ayub Khan in Islamabad, Sheikh Mujib on his maiden visit there was reportedly heard making this comment, I smell jute in the buildings, the environs and the surroundings of Islamabad, meaning the capital was built out of the revenue generated from jute  which rightfully should have been spent in East Pakistan.
In the former East Pakistan, the Bihari migrants had the advantage over the local Bengali populace. They spoke Urdu which was declared the only national language by Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah, were educated, experienced in railways, telephone and telegraphs and civil services. This allowed them an opportunity to fill in the gaps created by the Hindus who had left East Pakistan to migrate to India. Although the Biharis were initially welcomed by the Bengalis however the honeymoon soon had to get over and the relations between them started to get sour. In a way, the Biharis were more to blame as they alienated themselves with the local populace to associate and identify themselves more with the West Pakistani controlled establishment.
Many more instances worked against the Biharis and the Bengalis saw the Biharis as the agents of West Pakistan. During Ayubs era, the Bihari BD (Basic Democracy of Ayub Khan) members were seen to be submissive to the political programs of Ayub Khan. They performed their duty not as the representatives of their community but rather as agents of the ruling clique. This was not at all appreciated by the Bengalis then.


Easy AdSense by Unreal
Fast forward  during the military rule of Yahya Khan in 1971, the Para-Military forces like Mujahid force and EPCAF (East Pakistan Civil Armed Force) were formed by the Pakistani Army Establishment. Some other forces like Razakars were also formed. Similarly, some political parties were encouraged by the Army to organize their armed cadres like Al-Badar (armed cadre of Jamat-e-Islami) and Al-Shams (armed cadre of Muslim League) to assist the military in its operation against the Bengali insurgents. Most of the unemployed and illiterate Bihari youths, who were sons of the patriotic and pro-Pakistani parents, enthusiastically joined these forces in large numbers. They were also mostly those whose parents or relatives were killed before or after 25 March-1971 army operation against the Bengalis.
The patriotic pro-Pakistani enthusiasm demonstrated by the Biharis, especially by their youths, was not much appreciated by the local Bengali populace. The Biharis in general were already dubbed as the agents of West Pakistan. The Bengali press and the political slogans by Awami League had already poisoned the Bengali brains against the Biharis for their stance in favor of Pakistan and its military establishment in East Pakistan. As a result and because of the political conflicts between the Army and the Awami League, the members of the Bihari community mostly railway employees in many remote places of North Bengal and being the soft target, became the worst sufferers. In Santahar, the local Bengalis attacked them on 21 March-1971  4 days before the Army crack-down in Dhaka. From 21 March thru 17 April some twenty thousands were killed in Santahar alone. In Dinajpur, however the carnage was even worse. These attacks on Bihari 
settlements continued unabated, until Pakistani control was re-established around end of April 1971. It was claimed that 3 million Bengalis died for the creation of Bangladesh. However, it is not known as to how many Urdu speaking Biharis gave their lives in the country they migrated to as their adopted home. All of them were killed in a cold-blooded and in a premeditated manner just because they openly supported the Pakistani establishment against the Bengali insurgents  just out of their love and patriotism for Pakistan only. It was heavy price that they paid for sheer patriotism for the country they loved.
Geo TV anchor Hamid Mir, during a program organized by a local social organization in Riyadh-Saudi Arabia in April 2009, is on record to have responded to a question put by the scribe to him as follows:
Quote  The Biharis had made a big mistake by supporting and siding 
with the undemocratic forces in East Pakistan (meaning supporting the Pakistani military establishment there) against the local Bengali people. It was a mistake and they have to pay the price of this mistake -Unquote.
It leaves me wondering if Hamid Mir is right in his assertions. I also wonder if it would serve as a lesson for others if they are put to similar situation in future, as the unfortunate Biharis were put into in East Pakistan.
(Faiz Al-Najdi (aka: Syed Faiz Ahmad) is a Writer and a Columnist based in Riyadh. His email address is: faizalnajdi@gmail.com)

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## monitor

dear pakistani members how you remember 16 December in your country ?


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## monitor

BATMAN said:


> I don't understand the point in starting discussion of this issue only this year!!!
> 
> Bangladesh was a separated by Indian meddling in Pakistan affairs and bunch of political activists.
> 
> Some people do not miss the opportunity to start anti Pakistan discussions.
> 
> Mods. close the thread, as it is an attempt to baselessly defaming Pakistan and its army.





Bangladesh is a reality because of your total failure of intelligence ignoring the ground reality failure to keep media on pakistans side 
and ridiculously using military power to solve political problem .
india just took the opportunity which was given by pakistani themselves .

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## kobiraaz

Al-zakir said:


> Where have you gotten this information from? We are in 2010 and the relation between Bangladesh-Pakistan is 6 feet under so where the hell you have come up with this imagination???



it is easy.. as BNP is clearly opposing India now... it will certainly strengthen relationship with Pakistan & China after ascending to power..... You don't have to be a specialist for understanding that.......


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## glitteringstar

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> There were options! if u hadnt played in the hands of indian proxy and bloody politicians........ just imagine where we would have been today!
> 
> A country with 3 or 4th largest army,30-40 billion dollars in reserves! A diverse country! ...... heck Pakistan was created by people of both countries! not just west pakistanis!
> 
> Imagine wat they would be feeling today!
> Brothers killing brothers and the enemy winning!
> 
> .................
> 
> I was born in the 90s! but still whenever i think abt BD i get goose bumps and tears roll out of my eyes!A very bad pain rises from my heart tht paralyzes my soul!
> 
> Once U were my brother my country fellow! i would have given my life for u!
> But today where do u stand? who won 71 war?Pakistan?Bangladesh? NO neither......... india did!
> 
> *With tears in eyes and pain in my heart"Oh! deathly cold December, thou shall always be in mourning". *




You are very right.
We would be third most populous country of the world


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## Joe Shearer

T-Faz said:


> *All news and articles about the 1971 debacle should go into this thread. Please refrain from posting offensive, exaggerated or point scoring articles for the sake of better discussions.
> 
> The concentration should be on Pakistan and Bangladesh, the past, present and future.*
> 
> My opinion about the events are clear to many here, as I have stated before, there would not even be a Pakistan if it wasn't for the Bengalis who supported an idea which neither mentioned them nor acknowledged them in our nations name. Yet they worked tirelessly with the father of our nation Jinnah to create Pakistan and they were the most patriotic of Pakistani's.
> 
> The injustice that the Bengalis suffered from an early time in our nation is regrettable to say the least. While West Pakistan flourished, it was all at the expense of East Pakistan. The shortsightedness and power hungry attitude of our ruling elite is the main cause of the separation of Pakistan.
> 
> When Mujib-ur-Rahman won the election, he should have been appointed as the leader but the mockery made of fair elections caused a damaging event to occur that left Pakistan open to attacks by any of it's enemies.
> 
> The consequent military action to solve a political crisis was even worse and it led to an irreversible disaster.
> 
> But the past is in the past now and nothing can change what occurred.
> 
> *There is a lesson in everything and we should have learned a lesson from the event in question - or did we?.*



The mere fact that these two courageous reports were published, by the moderators, speaks for itself. It is a hugely healing gesture, although it is for the formal citizens of Bangladesh, not for a child of her diaspora, to say so. The child may, however, legitimately salute the moral courage and high responsibility demonstrated in putting up these reports, and does so. Your actions do you proud, gentlemen.

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## Joe Shearer

johnny boy said:


> hmmm...why was so much hatred shown aginst bengalis pre 1971?????any one has any answer??????



It was deep-rooted and visceral, and not just in Pakistan. Do you want the truth? Can you handle it?

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

monitor said:


> dear pakistani members how you remember 16 December in your country ?



I can only speak for myself and many of my generation I converse with and grew up with - the events of 1971 are primarily academic for us. We were born long after the events of 1971, and growing up the Pakistan we knew was the Pakistan with its current political boundaries. My parents (and as far as I know the parents of my peers) never really broached the subject of East Pakistan and its separation, outside of answering questions we raised as we grew older and more aware of our history.

Of course I cannot generalize my limited experiences and interactions over 180 million people, and there are bound to be diverse approaches within families and individuals to how they see the events of 1971, but my own experience is as above.

Its academic.

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## Joe Shearer

Jana said:


> Govt posts was not a big issue. the seeds of hate were sown much before by *traitor mujeeb*. *his speech at the time of independence is also an eye opener. he at that time tried to create divide on the basis of language.*
> 
> Our politicians had committed blunders no doubt, they did not accepted the verdict of the people who voted for Bengali Pakistani politicians. Along with our own blunders All this was exploited by India for State Terrorism in Pakistan.



It is apparent that you do not have a clue about Muslim League politics and about the relationship of Fazlul Haque with the League, or of his younger comrades, Suhrawardy and Maulana Bhashani. It is far more complex and intertwined than your silly little coffee house analysis makes it out to be. Why is it that you can see Mujib as a traitor, although he was faithful and loyal to the idea of Pakistan to the bitter end, to the point of time when with the majority of seats, he was wilfully kept out by a manipulator and a villain, and his military dupe? Why is it that you cannot see Bhutto for what he did, shattered your nation in blind pursuit of his own aggrandisement?

It is not clear what you mean by Mujib's speech at the time of independence. Whose independence? When he declared non-cooperation with the military authorities, his speech was in Bengali, because he was addressing Bengalis. If you are talking of 47, you should know that language came into the equation only because of a huge misunderstanding between the Bengalis and Jinnah, partly due to the terms that they used. Jinnah was clear that Bengali could be an official language but not the language of state; the Bengalis thought that he was outlawing Bengali altogether, which was emphatically not the case. It was a genuine misunderstanding. However, for those who are determined to see vileness in others, this must be a minor obstacle. You should know that Bengali sentiment about language grew over years, and there was no sudden eruption. It was in 52 that the language riots broke out, after 5 years of seeking answers and clarifications and getting clever replies from the bureaucrats and the establishment in the west - the exact same bureaucrats and establishment who are to be found hiding under their tables, even today, even now, whenever it comes to accepting accountability.

Before you hurl accusations at Mujib, whatever his later faults, please take the trouble of reading up on the details of your own country's struggle for freedom. If you have any difficulty getting sources, there will be many to help you.

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## Joe Shearer

Rabzon said:


> *Lessons of December 16*
> 
> Dawn
> I.A Rehman
> 
> 
> *TODAY, Dec 16, Pakistan`s opinion-makers will once again raise a loud wail and lament the final act in their country`s dismemberment almost half a century ago. It will again be a ritualistic display of grief and no one will be convinced of its genuineness.*
> 
> *Nothing will be gained by beating chests, like Mary, Queen of Scots, did over the loss of Calais.* The mourning will have meaning if the people of Pakistan took stock of their establishment`s acts of commission and omission that drove the Bengalis out of the state that they more than any other community had helped create barely 24 years earlier. This exercise, which should include repentance as well as a legitimate reappraisal, is necessary if Pakistan is to ward off the danger of its demise as a democratic polity and the threat to its integrity.
> 
> *Pakistan`s founding fathers were so greatly carried away by the Muslim League`s 1945-46 electoral victory across the subcontinent and the euphoria created by partition just a year later that they ignored the challenge posed by the provincial units` rising aspirations for autonomy.* The 1919 scheme of diarchy had given the provincial authorities control over agriculture, education, public works and local bodies, key departments because of their relevance to the largest sections of their populations. It was this heady feeling of empowerment in one`s own yard that had emboldened Fazl-i-Husain to tell the Quaid to stay away from Punjab and Sikandar Hayat to present an alternative to the scheme suggested in the Lahore Resolution. The same was the feeling in other provinces, a fact conceded by the authors of the Lahore (subsequently Pakistan) Resolution while deciding on its language  and which has haunted the rulers of Pakistan all of its 63 years.
> 
> The East Bengal people`s aspirations for maximum power at the provincial level had an extra dimension. They had had a share in the Bengal government for 10 continuous years (1937-47)  led by Muslim premiers. But they had not forgotten how much more power they had enjoyed when Bengal had been first divided in 1905. The partition of 1947 gave them the province they had in 1905. Only full autonomy could mitigate the pain of loss of authority over West Bengal, especially Calcutta.
> 
> *However, they were more than willing to restrain their desire for power for the sake of making Pakistan a success. They agreed to elect Muslim League leaders from minority provinces to the constituent assembly, they accepted the formula of bureaucrats` promotion whose beneficiaries were all non-Bengalis except one, they also accepted Karachi as the new state`s capital and the fact that the offices of the governor-general, the prime minister, the president of the constituent assembly and the East Bengal governor were held by non-Bengalis. These gestures were not appreciated; instead a tendency to take the people of East Bengal for granted started taking root.*
> 
> *Before partition actually took place the Quaid-i-Azam briefly acknowledged East Bengal`s yearning for autonomy by allowing Suhrawardy to make a bid for keeping Bengal united but after that Pakistan`s leaders closed their ears to autonomy demands, beginning with their unwise language policy.* Mujib might have indulged in exaggeration when he said that the denial of permission to a Bengali member to make oath in his mother tongue at the first session of the constituent assembly marked the beginning of his people`s alienation from Pakistan, *but the fact is that the country`s establishment failed to realise that denial of a people`s language is one of the first warnings of their loss of identify and sovereignty.*
> 
> *The policies of the centre took little time to make the people of East Bengal aware of their status as a colony. Provincial elections were held in the western wing in 1951-52, the Bengalis were made to wait till 1954 and then the elected representatives were not allowed to rule in peace. *A strong man, Iskander Mirza was sent to drill them into submission. By and by the people of East Bengal became aware of the scale of denial of their rights.
> 
> *Ayub Khan tried a trade-off between the Bengali people`s rights and mega-projects and set Monem Khan after them. At the same time the hollowness of the strategy of defending East Bengal by making the defence of Lahore strong was exposed. This was a strategy effective in the Middle Ages when defence was an exclusively military affair and the people`s relationship with the state did not matter.*
> 
> *Yahya Khan seemed determined to preside over Pakistan`s dissolution. He tried to use his `gift` of a general election and acceptance of Bengali majority in the constitution-making body to bargain in his and his class`s interest. When this tactic failed he unleashed a war he had no chance of winning.* He relied on ineffective patrons and turned effective actors into enemies. The day by-elections were decided upon to fill the seats of parliamentarians who had fled across the border the final countdown to Pakistan`s disintegration began. Among other things, the Bengali people`s courage and grit in conducting their war of liberation contributed to a quicker than expected end.
> 
> No narrative on political blunders over two decades can be as simple and one-sided as the foregoing paragraphs may suggest. True, an inexperienced, resource-starved and rather inadequate leadership at the centre did not possess the means to satisfy East Bengal`s aspirations. The preoccupation with security problems and external factors complicated matters. The politicians lacked the will and the mental capacity to resist being outmanoeuvred by an alliance of over-ambitious civil and military bureaucrats. But politicians who can keep their wits in fair weather only have no right to high offices; they can only invite disaster. They did just that.
> 
> Historians and analysts are unlikely to give up their attempts to identify who were heroes and who were the villains in the East Bengal story and at what point Pakistan started breaking up. *Perhaps it is time to realise that Pakistan came to grief by adopting a flawed policy towards East Bengal from day one.*
> 
> Whatever the causes the founding fathers did not grasp the dynamics of provincial politics. When Ghulam Mohammad sacked Nazimuddin and then dissolved the constituent assembly he destroyed Bengal`s confidence in the rulers` commitment to constitutionalism. The strategy for winning the hearts of the Bengali people comprised developmental bribes and control through quislings. No people will forever surrender their rights to political power, social progress and cultural identity for tinsel. And throughout the two decades that East Bengal formed part of Pakistan religion was used as the only cement to preserve the state`s integrity.
> 
> *The Bengalis were more religious than their western compatriots but they had no use for a religion that smacked of occupation and oppression. Pakistan had to pay the price of ignoring the lesson humankind (including Arabs) learnt after many sanguinary contests, that religion has never, nowhere defeated the rising tide of nationalism.
> 
> Dec 16 is the appropriate occasion to realise that the laws of history have not changed.*



This sensitive and detailed analysis is really appreciated, although I do not fully agree with every aspect.

On a very small point of pedantry, which has no bearing on your basic logic, it was Mary of England, "Bloody Mary", who said on losing Calais,"When I die, you will find 'Calais' written on my heart."

Mary Queen of Scots, her cousin and Queen of neighbouring Scotland, was actually married to the Dauphin, and would have been delighted at the revision of Calais to French authority.


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## Joe Shearer

TechLahore said:


> @fallstuff, You have COMPLETELY missed the point. Bhutto was convincing Pakistanis who were angry about 1971 to befriend Bangladesh. He used the word you probably latched on to as something those who oppose this viewpoint would say. And then he deconstructed the opposing argument.
> 
> This speech actually asks Pakistanis to embrace Bangladesh as a brother Islamic nation and as a friend.



Were we watching the same clip? 

He tried to explain to the crowd that the call of unity within the Qaum, similar to the call for unity with even Egypt, Lebanon, Morocco and a host of others, called for them to decide how to react to Bangladesh. The crowd disconcerted him by standing up against reconciliation, and he then made the best of it by agreeing with their emotional stand, and agreeing that 'Suwar ke bachche jahannam jayen.' 

He started asking the crowd to embrace Bangladesh, but it didn't quite end that way.

If you are saying that he started out with the right intentions, that seems to be the case, no doubt about it. It just went horribly wrong.

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## Joe Shearer

iajdani said:


> I agree.. Thats the only thing Pakistan would be missing for the years to come. Bengalis would never let Pakistan to get involved in proxy war with Soviets neither it allowed extremism.
> 
> 
> 
> Then you should not had separated from India in the first place.
> 2nd Bengalis are Bengalis, Hindus or Muslim would not make any difference. They all will do the same.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you name 10 Hindu name who formed core of Mukti Bahini. No offence to any of my country men. Hindus had very little to say in any political party even within AL.
> 
> 
> 
> He was forced to spread them thin. His opponents were way too smart.
> 
> 
> 
> Dont understand what you talking about???



The problem is that most of those commenting so wisely about those years were not even born. I was there, a volunteer in the camps; many who played leading roles played those roles in close proximity. Mukti Joddhas were never mixed up with the refugee camps; if someone took a decision to join the MB, he would leave, and while we saw some faces back, very briefly, they had their own places, quite separate from the refugees. The refugee camps were horrible places, marked by daily death, mainly of women and children. There could have been no resistance operations from them. But I saw - we all saw - who were going out. 

I have news for my Pakistani friends. It wasn't the Hindus. 

They were completely out of it, defeated by terror and exhaustion and the loss of the meagre little that they owned. Men, women and children - they crossed the border, and the moment they realised they were safe, they needn't keep walking, they just lay down, wherever they were. Many died there, on the road, on the fields next to the border; many more in the camps. Nobody counted. The first few weeks (I wasn't there then, other volunteers told me later) were terrifying; it looked as if it was to be mass-scale death, on an unimaginable scale. It wasn't possible even to inoculate the hordes coming in. There were no tents, it was the monsoon, a Bengal monsoon where the water comes down in solid sheets. The worst time was after Searchlight, the months of April, May, June, a bit of July. By then, the flood had stopped; only trickles of people were still coming through. Western organisations came forward to help; some of the doctors carried new-fangled syringes which could deliver inoculations in seconds, and clean, without need to change needles. They looked like paint-guns and we thought the doctors holding them were angels; it was the first clue we had that we could hold on to the refugees.

It was largely the Muslims who turned, although I can't give you proof, nothing beyond anecdotes. Some of us who had turned up at these camps without permission from home were soon tracked down and yanked out and ruthlessly sent back; probably just as well, we were probably breaking down and getting in the way of the professional workers. But if I saw rage and anger, it was when people had had a few days to take stock, to realise that they were alive, to realise what had happened to them, to listen to the recruiters, to listen to the rallies and the songs and the pep talks; Nazrul's songs were sung every day, Mujib's Ramna Maidan talk was played every day, these were the two great recruitment drivers, besides the quiet, earnest young man in khakis, sometimes (very rarely) an EPR guy to stir things up with his stories of resistance, mostly Bangladeshi government people in semi-civilian clothes and rubber sandals cut out of tyre treads. There was a constant trickle leaving camp. Someone losing his woman and children was an almost automatic recruit.

I keep hearing stories, mainly Pakistani stories, about how the refugees were systematically grouped and recruitment done among them. Whoever believes that should have been in the camps. It didn't work like that. It worked nothing like that. Those camps were hell. You didn't have time to identify who was which religion, you just got their inoculations in, their gruel in, got them a brick plinth and tarpaulin and hoped like hell they'd survive the first week. They were usually OK after that. 

Most of us lasted a very short while before we were chased out, if we had no good, effective NGO backing. I wasn't in that NGO crowd and lasted less than two months before my father's policemen caught me and hauled me back to Calcutta. At the time, I yelled and shouted and wept trying to stay back, but I realise now I hated the camps.

Sometimes I read these weird stories about Machiavellian Indian planning and I smile when I think of what was happening on the ground then. Machiavelli was at some other camp, not the one I was at.

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## Tameem

In the last 8 Pages everyones talks about West Pakistanis mistakes in the separations of erstwhile Pakistan in to two but no one talked about how East Pakistanis get it wrong from the startsI like to reminds some of them here just for the sack of records.

1.	East Pakistanis never believe in Two Nation Theory by their hearts compares to West Pakistanis who believe in it as to life over death.
2.	EPs believes in Bengali Muslim identification over Muslim Bengali, there is too much in the placement of words which proves deadly after 47.
3.	Right after the creation of Pakistan prominent Bengali Muslims opted for provincial politics over Pakistani i.e., Shiek Mujib parted with Muslim league and created a new party Awami Muslim League just to capitalize on Bengali identity and that is too within a year or two of Pakistan Independence.
4.	EPs force WPs for Bengali language to be equated at par with Urdu, which is clearly the language of Muslims all over India with a language of a province alone.
5.	Just after 47 when we are facing great difficulties in running the affairs of Pakistan with so much cash starved and refugees issues the EPs felt its better time to be on the streets for not other than coinage issue in 49 to why not they be in Bengali as well.
6.	EPs are the first who creates sectarianism in Pakistan, they just feels happy to press upon the language issue to even Balackmailing tactics, the 52 riots are the clear example in which EPs politicians uses it as a crying call just to gain sympathy of Bengali alone over West Pakistanis.

One may asks how they are less believer in Two Nation Theory over WPs, So the answer goes like this.

Bengali Muslims dont know Urdu very WellWait! Wait! By not knowing Urdu they just miss the very important part of the other lot of Sub continental Muslim Phsyche feels, The IQBAL syndrome, his poetry which basis upon Ummah, Millat and one Nation creates euphoria in the minds of the Muslims all over the subcontinent except Bengal.

The Bengali Renaissance in the late 18th and early 19th century gave them a sense of Bengali Nationalism over Muslim and that Nationalism is very strong, they just want to separate with Bengali Hindus to safeguard their interests just as in 1905, (Bcz Bengali Hindus are dominated in and around Calcutta whereas Bengali Muslims are in rural areas which creates unequal distribution of wealth) but not what eventually West Pakistanis lead them too. The Muslim Leagu inception in 1906 by Bengali leaders is primarily for Bengali Muslim Identity its never created for the Ummah, Millat in the first place. This idea only created by West Pakistanis and North Indian Muslims alone. 

Urdu is not the language of any province of United Pakistan, but all other nationalities accept its supremacy as only the one binding force over many except Bengalis, I just dont know why? Quaid rightly refused Bengalis demands for their language because once there is Bengali than why not Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, Baloch etc. The other point in Quaids refusal is Pakistan is in early days of their independence this will surely looks a pandoras box to be open. The bottom line is Bengalis are wrong in demanding it with so early and thats the other proof of their negligence towards Pakistan problems over their pity issues, which creates hatred in the minds of WPs establishment from the starts.

By pressing more in Bengali Nationalism over Muslim, Hating Urdu, unnecessary blackmailing towards sectarianism, Keeping only interests of Bengal over all Pakistan they created mistrust in the hearts and minds of West Pakistanis from the starts and both these parts were on the collision course right after independence.

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## Skies

Pakistanis need to understand Bangladesh now. Bangladeshis are generous and good people. If few Bangladeshis still hate Pakistan then there are some reasons. 

1. Misunderstandings.
2. Some extant of discrimination to the East Pakistani Bangali people and Killing during war without proper judgment.
3. Also AL and Indian propagandas are playing effectively for having hatred towards Pakistan now.
4. Neither PK left any good impression of themselves after 71-war nor we are getting any good impression of them still now. Most of Bangladeshis have negative idea about PK for their continuous bomb blasting.
5.And lastly, there were many patriot people in Mukti Bahini and fought against PK to save their mother land, because -in some cases- they were informed by propaganda that PK is killing and looting us.

But it is also true that most of Bangladeshi people have a soft corner for Pakistan. Many Bangladeshis consider PK as brother. And Pakistan should take the bilateral and economical opportunities with BD. We need to know each other again and we need new relation.

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## architect_cobb

What hurts the most is the fact that there were 30000 troops in Dacca and these 30000 surrendered to 3000 Indian troops. Gen Jacob who negotiated the surrender said multiple times in various interviews that if Niazi had decided to fight and had lasted a few more weeks the Cease Fire would have been disadvantageous to India.

Remembering General Niazi

Surrender blundenr by general niazi in east pakistan? Let us build Pakistan Forum

Gen Jacobs is revered in India for his feat of converting a cease fire negotiation to a public surrender with only 1/10th of troops. He bluffed and Niazi fell for it.

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## architect_cobb




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## Husnain_Ali

ajtr said:


> Only people i here this 1000 mile separation logic frrom pakistanis.i dont think any other country except pakistanis give such a logic.
> fir se be sar-pair ka logic.If you are a diverse country culturally,climate wise will that mean you will claim on on diverse part.do u see india doing it or for that matter china doing it.both are diverse countries.



This is what I meant to be far apart from each other. Indians get to interfere in our matter easily. Just like this discussion is between Pakistan and Bangladesh with Indian interferences.

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## Joe Shearer

architect_cobb said:


> What hurts the most is the fact that there were 30000 troops in Dacca and these 30000 surrendered to 3000 Indian troops. Gen Jacob who negotiated the surrender said multiple times in various interviews that if Niazi had decided to fight and had lasted a few more weeks the Cease Fire would have been disadvantageous to India.
> 
> Remembering General Niazi
> 
> Surrender blundenr by general niazi in east pakistan? Let us build Pakistan Forum
> 
> Gen Jacobs is revered in India for his feat of converting a cease fire negotiation to a public surrender with only 1/10th of troops. He bluffed and Niazi fell for it.



General Jacobs is remembered with respect in the Indian military for his meticulous staff work, and careful and detailed planning. On the other hand, his public reputation is largely due to his selective memory of the 'high spots'; the surrender at Dhaka, for instance, the assignment of troops by collusion between him and 'Norman' Gill, a very straightforward soldier, no smart-arse, supposedly without Sam Manekshaw knowing about it, his rather disloyal implication that Jagjit Arora was rather out of it; his tall tales ranging on to terminological inexactitude about counter-insurgency work in West Bengal after the Bangladesh episode, when he himself was GOC-in-C East, his even taller tales about life in the higher echelons of politics. 

With regard to the moment of surrender itself, he was in a hurry to get the surrender because field formations led by K. V. K. Rao were approaching much faster than had been planned, and were expected to be in the city outskirts in a day or two. It was not 3,000 against 30,000; please look at the situation maps, the numbers would have changed dramatically in three to four days, and the upshot would have been a bloody fire-fight with only one outcome at one end, and systematic, sustained killing of the remnants of the establishment packed into Dhaka at the other.

I suggest you read Z. A. Khan's account of his Bangladesh days, to get an idea of how tightly the establishment had clustered into one or two pockets, and then think through in your mind what would have happened if they had not been taken into protective custody quickly.

All can be forgiven Jake, however, including his Munchausen moments, for the sake of that beautiful planning, with the contingencies built in, which worked like clockwork. It helped to have Niazi on the other side; the only decent general the Pakistanis had in the field proved to be a hard nut to crack, and fought a brilliant rearguard action. Unfortunately for Niazi, he had only that one general; the others were simply not up to it. If Jake's planning had not been superior, and provided for at least two ways of achieving everything, the hold-up at Hilli would have cost a lot.

These bits about Niazi being hoodwinked into surrender is frankly, latterday journalistic myth-making; Niazi did the right thing, although he did a lot of wrong things earlier, as there was really no way out, and a prolongation would have led to hugely higher number of deaths, largely among the defenders. it wouldn't have been 93,000 odd PA and assorted personnel coming back; perhaps half of that. The MB was in a killing frenzy and impossible to hold back; read what happened to Tajuddin Hussain Malik to understand why Niazi took the only decision he could. And leave reading about Jake doing an Armenian rug-seller on the hapless Niazi for after dinner bed-time reading.

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## Joe Shearer

Tameem said:


> In the last 8 Pages everyones talks about West Pakistanis mistakes in the separations of erstwhile Pakistan in to two but no one talked about how East Pakistanis get it wrong from the startsI like to reminds some of them here just for the sack of records.
> 
> 1.	East Pakistanis never believe in Two Nation Theory by their hearts compares to West Pakistanis who believe in it as to life over death.
> 2.	EPs believes in Bengali Muslim identification over Muslim Bengali, there is too much in the placement of words which proves deadly after 47.
> 3.	Right after the creation of Pakistan prominent Bengali Muslims opted for provincial politics over Pakistani i.e., Shiek Mujib parted with Muslim league and created a new party Awami Muslim League just to capitalize on Bengali identity and that is too within a year or two of Pakistan Independence.
> 4.	EPs force WPs for Bengali language to be equated at par with Urdu, which is clearly the language of Muslims all over India with a language of a province alone.
> 5.	Just after 47 when we are facing great difficulties in running the affairs of Pakistan with so much cash starved and refugees issues the EPs felt its better time to be on the streets for not other than coinage issue in 49 to why not they be in Bengali as well.
> 6.	EPs are the first who creates sectarianism in Pakistan, they just feels happy to press upon the language issue to even Balackmailing tactics, the 52 riots are the clear example in which EPs politicians uses it as a crying call just to gain sympathy of Bengali alone over West Pakistanis.
> 
> One may asks how they are less believer in Two Nation Theory over WPs, So the answer goes like this.
> 
> Bengali Muslims dont know Urdu very WellWait! Wait! By not knowing Urdu they just miss the very important part of the other lot of Sub continental Muslim Phsyche feels, The IQBAL syndrome, his poetry which basis upon Ummah, Millat and one Nation creates euphoria in the minds of the Muslims all over the subcontinent except Bengal.
> 
> The Bengali Renaissance in the late 18th and early 19th century gave them a sense of Bengali Nationalism over Muslim and that Nationalism is very strong, they just want to separate with Bengali Hindus to safeguard their interests just as in 1905, (Bcz Bengali Hindus are dominated in and around Calcutta whereas Bengali Muslims are in rural areas which creates unequal distribution of wealth) but not what eventually West Pakistanis lead them too. The Muslim Leagu inception in 1906 by Bengali leaders is primarily for Bengali Muslim Identity its never created for the Ummah, Millat in the first place. This idea only created by West Pakistanis and North Indian Muslims alone.
> 
> Urdu is not the language of any province of United Pakistan, but all other nationalities accept its supremacy as only the one binding force over many except Bengalis, I just dont know why? Quaid rightly refused Bengalis demands for their language because once there is Bengali than why not Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, Baloch etc. The other point in Quaids refusal is Pakistan is in early days of their independence this will surely looks a pandoras box to be open. The bottom line is Bengalis are wrong in demanding it with so early and thats the other proof of their negligence towards Pakistan problems over their pity issues, which creates hatred in the minds of WPs establishment from the starts.
> 
> By pressing more in Bengali Nationalism over Muslim, Hating Urdu, unnecessary blackmailing towards sectarianism, Keeping only interests of Bengal over all Pakistan they created mistrust in the hearts and minds of West Pakistanis from the starts and both these parts were on the collision course right after independence.



I've never read a bigger load of codswallop. It doesn't even deserve a detailed response.

Stop trying to shift the blame with weasel sentences like Bengalis are wrong in demanding it so early. When should they have demanded it later than after 5 years of repeated requests for these issues to be considered? Have you even bothered to read the first few articles posted by the Mods before embarking on your revisionism? What next? Fazlul Haque, Sher-e-Bengal, was a British stooge? a splittist? Mujib was planning a break from the beginning? Maulana Bhashani was anti-Muslim, perhaps, since it seems it is open season on opium and crack?

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## architect_cobb

Joe Shearer said:


> General Jacobs is remembered with respect in the Indian military for his meticulous staff work, and careful and detailed planning. On the other hand, his public reputation is largely due to his selective memory of the 'high spots'; the surrender at Dhaka, for instance, the assignment of troops by collusion between him and 'Norman' Gill, a very straightforward soldier, no smart-arse, supposedly without Sam Manekshaw knowing about it, his implication that Jagjit Arora was rather out of it; his tall tales ranging on to terminological inexactitude about counter-insurgency work in West Bengal after the Bangladesh episode, when he himself was GOC-in-C East, his even taller tales about life in the higher echelons of politics.
> 
> All can be forgiven, however, including his Munchausen moments, for the sake of that beautiful planning, with the contingencies built in, which worked like clockwork. It helped to have Niazi on the other side; the only decent general the Pakistanis had in the field proved to be a hard nut to crack. If Jake's planning had not been superior, and provided for at least two ways of achieving everything, the hold-up at Hilli would have cost a lot.
> 
> These bits about Niazi being hoodwinked into surrender is frankly, latterday journalistic myth-making; Niazi did the right thing, although he did a lot of wrong things earlier, as there was really no way out, and a prolongation would have led to hugely higher number of deaths, largely among the defenders. it wouldn't have been 93,000 odd PA and assorted personnel coming back; perhaps half of that. The MB was in a killing frenzy and impossible to hold back; read what happened to Tajuddin Hussain Malik to understand why Niazi took the only decision he could. And leave reading about Jake doing an Armenian rug-seller on the hapless Niazi for after dinner bed-time reading.



Probably you are talking about Brig Tajammul Hussain Malik and not Tajuddin Malik. Well He was the only brigadier who was promoted to Maj Gen rank after repatriation. And he definitely didn't get all this respect in platter but he earned it.

As far as Niazi is concerned, nobody is questioning his bravery. However even his supporters agree that he was no military genius in tactics. He displayed the highest order of courage at various occassions in his career but here it was more to do with planning than with mere chivalry.

Fighting a few more weeks was totally possible and the army had the supplies and ration to do so. India was under a lot of international pressure for a cease fire.

Had Dacca been saved for a few more weeks, would have saved us from a lot of disgrace and insult. As far as loss of life is concerned that could have been avoided in the first place by simply handing over Dacca to Manekshaw the first day war was declared.

Battles are won by chivalry while wars are won by visionaries.

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## Joe Shearer

architect_cobb said:


> Probably you are talking about Brig Tajammul Hussain Malik and not Tajuddin Malik. Well He was the only brigadier who was promoted to Maj Gen rank after repatriation. And he definitely didn't get all this respect in platter but he earned it.



I am sorry, you are perfectly correct, I was in fact referring to Tajammul Hussian Malik, an officer I have always admired as being in the first rank of competence in the entire sub-continent. Of course he earned his promotion, and more.



architect_cobb said:


> As far as Niazi is concerned, nobody is questioning his bravery. However even his supporters agree that he was no military genius in tactics. He displayed the highest order of courage at various occassions in his career but here it was more to do with planning than with mere chivalry.



Indeed it was, more to do with planning than with personal courage. I am afraid chivalry died on the 26th of March that year.



architect_cobb said:


> Fighting a few more weeks was totally possible and the army had the supplies and ration to do so. India was under a lot of international pressure for a cease fire.



A totally hypothetical notion. The Dhaka garrison were not properly placed for a house-to-house defence, nor were they thoroughly in control of the city itself. As Jacob flew in for his negotiations, killing had started in the outer suburbs. 



architect_cobb said:


> Had Dacca been saved for a few more weeks, would have saved us from a lot of disgrace and insult.



A hypothetical suggestion, made with no idea of the ground reality at that time.

Had the military action on 26th March not been taken it would have saved you from a lot more disgrace and insult.

Had Mujib not been taken into custody, that too would have saved you from disgrace and insult.

Had Yahya not pretended to be conducting negotiations in good faith, instead of using them to stall for time while he pumped troops in, that would have saved even more disgrace and insult.

And so on.



architect_cobb said:


> As far as loss of life is concerned that could have been avoided in the first place by simply handing over Dacca to Manekshaw the first day war was declared.



Good for Jacob's planning.

Look at where the PA was disposed, where they expected the attack would come from.

It was actually lost on the first day that war was declared, again thanks to Jacob's planning; the rest of it was a race for a surrender and then to save further lives.



architect_cobb said:


> Battles are won by chivalry while wars are won by visionaries.



Really? 

What does that mean, exactly?


----------



## architect_cobb

Joe Shearer said:


> I am sorry, you are perfectly correct, I was in fact referring to Tajammul Hussian Malik, an officer I have always admired as being in the first rank of competence in the entire sub-continent. Of course he earned his promotion, and more.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed it was, more to do with planning than with personal courage. I am afraid chivalry died on the 26th of March that year.


what happened on 26th of March might be a very controversial matter, but was an internal matter of Pak, just like operation blue star/Golden temple. What I was referring to were the events of 1971 war.


> A totally hypothetical notion. The Dhaka garrison were not properly placed for a house-to-house defence, nor were they thoroughly in control of the city itself. As Jacob flew in for his negotiations, killing had started in the outer suburbs.


well yes you are right its hypothetical for sure since it never happened but there are examples from recent history supporting my hypothesis. Grozny Chechniya in 90s and Faluja in recent history. 

My biggest argument is the no of Indian troops around Dakka 3000.



> A hypothetical suggestion, made with no idea of the ground reality at that time.
> 
> Had the military action on 26th March not been taken it would have saved you from a lot more disgrace and insult.
> 
> Had Mujib not been taken into custody, that too would have saved you from disgrace and insult.
> 
> Had Yahya not pretended to be conducting negotiations in good faith, instead of using them to stall for time while he pumped troops in, that would have saved even more disgrace and insult.


If cabinet mission had not been rejected bu Nehru partition might not have taken place and ..... or ....

But then these were political decisions, I would rather stick to the military aspect of 1971 war only.

The biggest insult for a soldier is not death but surrender n that too in such a disgraceful and public fashion. These ceremonies tell a lot about the negotiation skills and morale of Niazi.

Anyway we agree to disagree but I would rather put more weightage to what Gen Jacobs has to say who was present at the event as one of the main characters of the whole drama then anybody else unless you claim to be Arora or atleast Nagra himself.



> And so on.
> 
> 
> 
> Good for Jacob's planning.
> 
> Look at where the PA was disposed, where they expected the attack would come from.


again bad tactical moves by Niazi and others in High Command.


> It was actually lost on the first day that war was declared, again thanks to Jacob's planning; the rest of it was a race for a surrender and then to save further lives.



A soldier's primary concern is never to save lives but his oath to protect the pride of the nation. It was a race to surrender but the terms could have been different.


> Really?
> 
> What does that mean, exactly?



You answered that yourself when you pointed out that the war was lost the day it began cause of poor planning and anticipation.


----------



## Tameem

Joe Shearer said:


> I've never read a bigger load of codswallop. It doesn't even deserve a detailed response.
> 
> Stop trying to shift the blame with weasel sentences like Bengalis are wrong in demanding it so early. When should they have demanded it later than after 5 years of repeated requests for these issues to be considered? Have you even bothered to read the first few articles posted by the Mods before embarking on your revisionism? What next? Fazlul Haque, Sher-e-Bengal, was a British stooge? a splittist? Mujib was planning a break from the beginning? Maulana Bhashani was anti-Muslim, perhaps, since it seems it is open season on opium and crack?



You Don't have the response My Dear.




Accept It, don't troll with anything you come across with your EGO.





And by the Way Our interaction in this thread is purely with our Bangladeshi brethern and the reason of my post and some of other is not to blame solely but to discusss what went wrong and why and who to blame entirely or partially and which way is the future for our both nations. A Bangladeshi can argue with me or reject my post entirely, i will be happy if they do that in a civil manner but there is no way an Indian Troll to interfre in this debate.

*Mods: Sincerely, i want to report his behaviour for no other than to troll in a serious debate which primarily concerns with Pakistanis & Bangladeshis alone, and as usual a pathetic Indian is their to make Fish.*

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## TechLahore

Skies said:


> Pakistanis need to understand Bangladesh now. Bangladeshis are generous and good people. If few Bangladeshis still hate Pakistan then there are some reasons.
> 
> 1. Misunderstandings.
> 2. Some extant of discrimination to the East Pakistani Bangali people and Killing during war without proper judgment.
> 3. Also AL and Indian propagandas are playing effectively for having hatred towards Pakistan now.
> 4. Neither PK left any good impression of themselves after 71-war nor we are getting any good impression of them still now. Most of Bangladeshis have negative idea about PK for their continuous bomb blasting.
> 5.And lastly, there were many patriot people in Mukti Bahini and fought against PK to save their mother land, because -in some cases- they were informed by propaganda that PK is killing and looting us.
> 
> But it is also true that most of Bangladeshi people have a soft corner for Pakistan. Many Bangladeshis consider PK as brother. And Pakistan should take the bilateral and economical opportunities with BD. We need to know each other again and we need new relation.



Thank you for this post. It's actually one of the few useful, constructive ones in a long line of breathless, tediously crafted crapshoots. 

1971 is 40 years in the past. The Bangladesh-Pakistan problem ended in 1971. It is not a festering wound that keeps getting worse every year with more killings and more murders (ala some other regional disputes). It was terrible, unfortunate and excessive, but it is done and finished. 

Between 65-70&#37; of Pakistan's population is under the age of 40 and only 4.5% of our population is over the age of 64. This would mean that a mere 4.5 out of 100 Pakistanis alive today were 24 or older in 1971. I would imagine Bangladesh's demographics to be quite similar. 95% or more of our people have never been in conflict with each other. Something to think about...

Mujeeb himself came to Pakistan in 1974 to attend the Islamic Summit. The Bangladeshi leaders that succeeded him were conciliatory and friendly towards Pakistan. Anyone with half a brain understands that Pakistan and Bangladesh may not have had enough in common to stay in a federal union, but certainly have no reason to be anything other than friends now. And NOW is all that matters.

_He* (Mujib)* sought membership of the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) *in February 1974, attended the OIC conference at Lahore* the same year, *established diplomatic ties with Pakistan after granting unconditional pardon* of the occupational forces of Pakistan involved in war crimes on innocent people, especially women, and allowed their subsequent safe repatriation, and *secured the founder membership of the Islamic Development Bank in 1975*.

*Towards the end of his rule, Mujib made frequent references to Islam in his speeches and public utterances by using terms and idioms which were peculiar mainly to the Islam-oriented Bangladeshi* - like Allah (the Almighty God),Insha Allah (God willing), Bismillah (in the name of God), Tawaba (Penitence) and Imam (religious leader). * He even dropped his symbolic valedictory expression Joy Bangla (Glory to Bengal) and ended his speeches with Khuda Hafez (May God protect you)*, the traditional Indo-Islamic phrase for bidding farewell. In his later day speeches, he also highlighted his efforts to establish cordial relations with the Muslim countries in the Middle East._​
Bangladesh: A Bengali Abbasi Lurking Somewhere?

This issue was settled a long time ago. If it was worth hanging on to this dispute, Mujib - of all people - would not have done all that is referenced above. It is neither in Pakistan's nor Bangladesh's interest to revisit history. The folks who do find it in their interest, however, are lapping it up...

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## monitor

*1947 *and *1971* both were the event that should happened and Bangladesh and Pakistan are the result of that event .


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## Joe Shearer

Joe Shearer said:


> I am sorry, you are perfectly correct, I was in fact referring to Tajammul Hussian Malik, an officer I have always admired as being in the first rank of competence in the entire sub-continent. Of course he earned his promotion, and more.
> 
> Indeed it was, more to do with planning than with personal courage. I am afraid chivalry died on the 26th of March that year.
> 
> 
> 
> Architect Cobb said:
> 
> 
> 
> what happened on 26th of March might be a very controversial matter, but was an internal matter of Pak, just like operation blue star/Golden temple. What I was referring to were the events of 1971 war.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately, whether it suits you or not, 26th March is the start of the war, with the start of a repression that brought a human wave of refugees into India. 

If this had not happened, there is not the slightest chance that hostilities between India and Pakistan would have broken out - at least not in 1971.

If you wish to expand the scope of this discussion, as your very calculating reference to Blue Star/Golden Temple seems to indicate, I am willing to cooperate with you. But then don't arrange for the Moderators to shut us up when the going gets too hot.

If you wish to provoke, feel free; you might achieve your objective.



Joe Shearer said:


> A totally hypothetical notion. The Dhaka garrison were not properly placed for a house-to-house defence, nor were they thoroughly in control of the city itself. As Jacob flew in for his negotiations, killing had started in the outer suburbs.
> 
> 
> 
> Architect Cobb said:
> 
> 
> 
> well yes you are right its hypothetical for sure since it never happened but there are examples from recent history supporting my hypothesis. Grozny Chechniya in 90s and Faluja in recent history.
> 
> My biggest argument is the no of Indian troops around Dakka 3000.
Click to expand...


Bad examples.

The Pakistan Army was never trained to fight as a guerrilla force or as a partisan army. It was trained in very specific terms. It is not possible to convert that trained force, overnight, into a street-fighting squad, one which would have had all the disadvantages of not knowing what was the geography of the city.

It is all very well to sit here in the safety of our respective homes and offices and discuss the events of Grozny and of Fallujah, it is quite another to be there oneself and to have to take a decision to fight it out, knowing that this would mean that the non-combatants would take the brunt of the battle.

Further, please review the books and data copiously available, and satisfy yourself about what I have already stated in an earlier comment.



Joe Shearer said:


> A hypothetical suggestion, made with no idea of the ground reality at that time.
> 
> Had the military action on 26th March not been taken it would have saved you from a lot more disgrace and insult.
> 
> Had Mujib not been taken into custody, that too would have saved you from disgrace and insult.
> 
> Had Yahya not pretended to be conducting negotiations in good faith, instead of using them to stall for time while he pumped troops in, that would have saved even more disgrace and insult.
> 
> 
> 
> Architect Cobb said:
> 
> 
> 
> If cabinet mission had not been rejected bu Nehru partition might not have taken place and ..... or ....
> 
> But then these were political decisions, I would rather stick to the military aspect of 1971 war only.
> 
> The biggest insult for a soldier is not death but surrender n that too in such a disgraceful and public fashion. These ceremonies tell a lot about the negotiation skills and morale of Niazi.
Click to expand...


The grandiose opinion of a chairborne warrior.

Hundreds, thousands of British, French, American, Italian, German, Russian troops surrendered; thousands of Indian troops surrendered too. What insult are you talking about when a commander surrenders to avoid further loss of life? 

This statement is, I am sorry to say, that of a civilian willing to fight to the last soldier.



Architect Cobb said:


> Anyway we agree to disagree but I would rather put more weightage to what Gen Jacobs has to say who was present at the event as one of the main characters of the whole drama then anybody else unless you claim to be Arora or atleast Nagra himself.



I wish to confine myself only to third party printed data. What I know about events then are what I know and nobody needs to bother about how I came to know. 

So far, I have cited only public data, and the only claims about the surrender of Dhaka were Jake's own words. Before going further, may I ask you what is your source of information? I might be able to explain why it is unreliable, but for that, I need confirmation.

What happened in Dhaka was between Jake and Niazi. 

I suggest that you consider the picture from Niazi's point of view before being so sanctimonious.



Joe Shearer said:


> And so on.
> 
> Good for Jacob's planning.
> 
> Look at where the PA was disposed, where they expected the attack would come from.
> 
> 
> 
> Architect Cobb said:
> 
> 
> 
> again bad tactical moves by Niazi and others in High Command.
Click to expand...


That was quick!

And what do you think they did, versus what you think they ought to have done?



Joe Shearer said:


> It was actually lost on the first day that war was declared, again thanks to Jacob's planning; the rest of it was a race for a surrender and then to save further lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Architect Cobb said:
> 
> 
> 
> A soldier's primary concern is never to save lives but his oath to protect the pride of the nation. It was a race to surrender but the terms could have been different.
Click to expand...


That statement contradicts itself, in case you have

Soldiers - professional soldiers at least - fight to win wars. They don't fight to give us material to write about.



Joe Shearer said:


> Really?
> 
> What does that mean, exactly?
> 
> 
> Architect Cobb said:
> 
> 
> 
> You answered that yourself when you pointed out that the war was lost the day it began cause of poor planning and anticipation.
Click to expand...


Exactly. 

There was neither chivalry nor vision involved.

You are apparently unaware of the difference between chivalry and personal valour. These are separate and distinct. So far you have used chivalry interchangeably with courage. I suggest you consult a dictionary before going further.

There is no 'vision' in working out plans, just comparison of as large a number of options, including unexpected and bold options, and the ability to put them together with logistics capabilities with great care and in great detail. 

Vision comes in only when different tactics are envisaged, or different methods of warfare are developed, or strikingly different armaments or formations are involved.

For instance, Liddell Hart and de Gaulle, based on Fuller's pioneering work, developed the concept of continuous movement in armoured warfare; Guderian did the detailed planning for the actual penetration of the Maginot Line and the exploitation. Rommel was one of the generals who executed the plan and used it to win major victories.

In this case, there was no vision, only the Guderian equivalent of excellent planning. And there was no chivalry. 

I think you are using words without a strong understanding of what they mean, and an even less strong understanding of what they mean in warfare and military analysis.


----------



## monitor

TechLahore said:


> Thank you for this post. It's actually one of the few useful, constructive ones in a long line of breathless, tediously crafted crapshoots.
> 
> 1971 is 40 years in the past. The Bangladesh-Pakistan problem ended in 1971. It is not a festering wound that keeps getting worse every year with more killings and more murders (ala some other regional disputes). It was terrible, unfortunate and excessive, but it is done and finished.
> 
> Between 65-70&#37; of Pakistan's population is under the age of 40 and only 4.5% of our population is over the age of 64. This would mean that a mere 4.5 out of 100 Pakistanis alive today were 24 or older in 1971. I would imagine Bangladesh's demographics to be quite similar. 95% or more of our people have never been in conflict with each other. Something to think about...
> 
> Mujeeb himself came to Pakistan in 1974 to attend the Islamic Summit. The Bangladeshi leaders that succeeded him were conciliatory and friendly towards Pakistan. Anyone with half a brain understands that Pakistan and Bangladesh may not have had enough in common to stay in a federal union, but certainly have no reason to be anything other than friends now. And NOW is all that matters.
> 
> _He* (Mujib)* sought membership of the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) *in February 1974, attended the OIC conference at Lahore* the same year, *established diplomatic ties with Pakistan after granting unconditional pardon* of the occupational forces of Pakistan involved in war crimes on innocent people, especially women, and allowed their subsequent safe repatriation, and *secured the founder membership of the Islamic Development Bank in 1975*.
> 
> *Towards the end of his rule, Mujib made frequent references to Islam in his speeches and public utterances by using terms and idioms which were peculiar mainly to the Islam-oriented Bangladeshi* - like Allah (the Almighty God),Insha Allah (God willing), Bismillah (in the name of God), Tawaba (Penitence) and Imam (religious leader). * He even dropped his symbolic valedictory expression Joy Bangla (Glory to Bengal) and ended his speeches with Khuda Hafez (May God protect you)*, the traditional Indo-Islamic phrase for bidding farewell. In his later day speeches, he also highlighted his efforts to establish cordial relations with the Muslim countries in the Middle East._​
> Bangladesh: A Bengali Abbasi Lurking Somewhere?
> 
> This issue was settled a long time ago. If it was worth hanging on to this dispute, Mujib - of all people - would not have done all that is referenced above. It is neither in Pakistan's nor Bangladesh's interest to revisit history. The folks who do find it in their interest, however, are lapping it up...





Thanks for the kind post .now after 40 years later we should look ahead instead of looking back the past .but we should learn what mistake and wrong doing were done by our leader and learn from their mistake .

 * Long live Pakistan Bangladesh brotherhood*

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## fallstuff

TechLahore said:


> Thank you for this post. It's actually one of the few useful, constructive ones in a long line of breathless, tediously crafted crapshoots.
> 
> 1971 is 40 years in the past. The Bangladesh-Pakistan problem ended in 1971. It is not a festering wound that keeps getting worse every year with more killings and more murders (ala some other regional disputes). It was terrible, unfortunate and excessive, but it is done and finished.
> 
> Between 65-70% of Pakistan's population is under the age of 40 and only 4.5% of our population is over the age of 64. This would mean that a mere 4.5 out of 100 Pakistanis alive today were 24 or older in 1971. I would imagine Bangladesh's demographics to be quite similar. 95% or more of our people have never been in conflict with each other. Something to think about...
> 
> Mujeeb himself came to Pakistan in 1974 to attend the Islamic Summit. The Bangladeshi leaders that succeeded him were conciliatory and friendly towards Pakistan. Anyone with half a brain understands that Pakistan and Bangladesh may not have had enough in common to stay in a federal union, but certainly have no reason to be anything other than friends now. And NOW is all that matters.
> 
> _He* (Mujib)* sought membership of the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) *in February 1974, attended the OIC conference at Lahore* the same year, *established diplomatic ties with Pakistan after granting unconditional pardon* of the occupational forces of Pakistan involved in war crimes on innocent people, especially women, and allowed their subsequent safe repatriation, and *secured the founder membership of the Islamic Development Bank in 1975*.
> 
> *Towards the end of his rule, Mujib made frequent references to Islam in his speeches and public utterances by using terms and idioms which were peculiar mainly to the Islam-oriented Bangladeshi* - like Allah (the Almighty God),Insha Allah (God willing), Bismillah (in the name of God), Tawaba (Penitence) and Imam (religious leader). * He even dropped his symbolic valedictory expression Joy Bangla (Glory to Bengal) and ended his speeches with Khuda Hafez (May God protect you)*, the traditional Indo-Islamic phrase for bidding farewell. In his later day speeches, he also highlighted his efforts to establish cordial relations with the Muslim countries in the Middle East._​
> Bangladesh: A Bengali Abbasi Lurking Somewhere?
> 
> This issue was settled a long time ago. If it was worth hanging on to this dispute, Mujib - of all people - would not have done all that is referenced above. It is neither in Pakistan's nor Bangladesh's interest to revisit history. The folks who do find it in their interest, however, are lapping it up...



I don't know any Bangladeshi that is demanding a formal apology. AL is whipping up old wounds trying to cash on it. An apology only has rhetorical and political value to AL. People in general mended their wounds and moved on. 

I generally find the tone of the Pakistani members very conciliatory about the past. I wish Bangladesh and Pakistan more continued friendly relationship.

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## Tameem

TechLahore said:


> 1971 is 40 years in the past. The Bangladesh-Pakistan problem ended in 1971. It is not a festering wound that keeps getting worse every year with more killings and more murders (ala some other regional disputes). It was terrible, unfortunate and excessive, but it is done and finished.



U R right as far as Pakistanis are concerned, but never in the minds of ordinary Bangladeshis, i came across in various forms including their own. The matter is not that easy to forget and yes its a constant wound on their body and soul. 



TechLahore said:


> Mujeeb himself came to Pakistan in 1974 to attend the Islamic Summit. The Bangladeshi leaders that succeeded him were conciliatory and friendly towards Pakistan. Anyone with half a brain understands that Pakistan and Bangladesh may not have had enough in common to stay in a federal union, but certainly have no reason to be anything other than friends now. And NOW is all that matters.
> 
> _He* (Mujib)* sought membership of the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) *in February 1974, attended the OIC conference at Lahore* the same year, *established diplomatic ties with Pakistan after granting unconditional pardon* of the occupational forces of Pakistan involved in war crimes on innocent people, especially women, and allowed their subsequent safe repatriation, and *secured the founder membership of the Islamic Development Bank in 1975*.
> 
> *Towards the end of his rule, Mujib made frequent references to Islam in his speeches and public utterances by using terms and idioms which were peculiar mainly to the Islam-oriented Bangladeshi* - like Allah (the Almighty God),Insha Allah (God willing), Bismillah (in the name of God), Tawaba (Penitence) and Imam (religious leader). * He even dropped his symbolic valedictory expression Joy Bangla (Glory to Bengal) and ended his speeches with Khuda Hafez (May God protect you)*, the traditional Indo-Islamic phrase for bidding farewell. In his later day speeches, he also highlighted his efforts to establish cordial relations with the Muslim countries in the Middle East._​
> Bangladesh: A Bengali Abbasi Lurking Somewhere?
> 
> This issue was settled a long time ago. If it was worth hanging on to this dispute, Mujib - of all people - would not have done all that is referenced above.



If Mujib die a natural death the picture is more clear in Pak-Bangla relations, but unfortunately for Pak-Bangla relations he was murdered in cold blood and the matter becomes more complicated since than as AL squarely blames Pakistan and its agents for all this and continue to hijack all venues of cooperation between both of these countries successfully in the minds of ordinary Bangladeshis.



TechLahore said:


> It is neither in Pakistan's nor Bangladesh's interest to revisit history. The folks who do find it in their interest, however, are lapping it up...



Sir with due apologies what i learned from my Bangladeshi folks is that if Pakistanis want this issue to be settled forever and a normal relations they should;

Make an Unconditional Apology from their Parliament for the crimes of 71'
Handover All culprits and criminals GOB sought for
Settle the united Pakistan Assets issue with thier due share
Give back world assistance in $$$$ what received in response of cyclon Bhola in 70'.


The GOP still denying all these demands for last 40 years now, so my friend the matter is not that simple how you describes it so easily. You needs a thorough study on Pak-Bangla relations from scratch.


----------



## TechLahore

^^ I appreciate your views, but there are several Bangladeshi members who posted right above who don't quite seem to agree with your assessment. Nonetheless, I am both happy and proud that you, as a Pakistani, value the relationship with Bangladesh enough to say all that you have said. Kudos! 

In the words of my Bangladeshi friend:

*"Long live Pakistan Bangladesh brotherhood"*​


----------



## architect_cobb

Joe Shearer said:


> Unfortunately, whether it suits you or not, 26th March is the start of the war, with the start of a repression that brought a human wave of refugees into India.
> 
> *Once you are looking for an excuse you can always find one too many and India under Indira was looking for one, whether there were refugees or not.*
> 
> 
> If this had not happened, there is not the slightest chance that hostilities between India and Pakistan would have broken out - at least not in 1971.
> 
> *there is a word in Urdu Shatir Dushman. The main reason behind hostilities was Pakistan's weakness in the eastern flank, both militarily and politically. Nothing more nothing less. Indians even wanted to pursue their agenda on the western front had it not been for the international pressure, where there were no refugees whatsoever, so lets not go there.*
> 
> If you wish to expand the scope of this discussion, as your very calculating reference to Blue Star/Golden Temple seems to indicate, I am willing to cooperate with you. But then don't arrange for the Moderators to shut us up when the going gets too hot.
> 
> *Well my friend you do have some nerve. You can come to a Pakitani forum discuss with a Pakistani the excesses committed by Pakistani forces, but when given a hint of your own excesses you threaten of the discussion getting hot??? Well if you feel like taking this discussion outside the realms of a civilized discussion be my guest, though I would personally prefer otherwise.*
> 
> 
> If you wish to provoke, feel free; you might achieve your objective.
> *
> If talking about golden temple or some other historical events equates to provocation, be my guest. My experience is keyboard warriors always get provoked quite easily as opposed to real life, but then thats the definition of a keyboard warrior aint it?*
> 
> Bad examples.
> 
> The Pakistan Army was never trained to fight as a guerrilla force or as a partisan army. It was trained in very specific terms. It is not possible to convert that trained force, overnight, into a street-fighting squad, one which would have had all the disadvantages of not knowing what was the geography of the city.
> 
> *Sure Pak army was not a guerilla force, but neither can 3000 Indians be equated to the military might of USSR or USA. If a comparison is to be made then it would be valid if both the parties of the relevant historical events are equated and not only one.*
> 
> It is all very well to sit here in the safety of our respective homes and offices and discuss the events of Grozny and of Fallujah, it is quite another to be there oneself and to have to take a decision to fight it out, knowing that this would mean that the non-combatants would take the brunt of the battle.
> 
> *I am not here to discuss my military experience or prowess, nor boast about any. I am only expressing my perspective for the sake of a discussion. And the term discussion in itself is explanatory enough as to if the perspective is final or not. *
> 
> Further, please review the books and data copiously available, and satisfy yourself about what I have already stated in an earlier comment.
> 
> 
> 
> The grandiose opinion of a chairborne warrior.
> 
> Hundreds, thousands of British, French, American, Italian, German, Russian troops surrendered; thousands of Indian troops surrendered too. What insult are you talking about when a commander surrenders to avoid further loss of life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This statement is, I am sorry to say, that of a civilian willing to fight to the last soldier.
> 
> *and what makes you think I am a civilian or otherwise. Lets not discuss eachother and avoid making assumptions, I don't think that has anything to do with the matter at hand.*
> 
> 
> I wish to confine myself only to third party printed data. What I know about events then are what I know and nobody needs to bother about how I came to know.
> 
> So far, I have cited only public data, and the only claims about the surrender of Dhaka were Jake's own words. Before going further, may I ask you what is your source of information? I might be able to explain why it is unreliable, but for that, I need confirmation.
> 
> *source of information? Does Gen Jacob's interview on the matter not suffice? But if you are asking for transcripts of the interview or some links to it refer to my post #117.*
> 
> What happened in Dhaka was between Jake and Niazi.
> 
> I suggest that you consider the picture from Niazi's point of view before being so sanctimonious.
> 
> *what was niazi's perspective on surrender as per hamood ur rehman commission report? That would answer your question.
> 
> He didn't cite the excuses you have mentioned but stated that he was blackmailed into it by Jacob and even pushed by Farman.
> 
> *
> 
> That was quick!
> 
> And what do you think they did, versus what you think they ought to have done?
> 
> *there are plenty of assessments in various military journals. I am sure considering your interest in the subject you might have come across a few yourself. Specifically why Manekshaw wanted to capture cities other than Dacca and why Aurora and Jacob ignored the order and went straight for Dacca. Anyways hindsight is always 20/20*
> 
> That statement contradicts itself, in case you have
> 
> Soldiers - professional soldiers at least - fight to win wars. They don't fight to give us material to write about.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> There was neither chivalry nor vision involved.
> 
> You are apparently unaware of the difference between chivalry and personal valour. These are separate and distinct. So far you have used chivalry interchangeably with courage. I suggest you consult a dictionary before going further.
> 
> *Well here is one. as per oxford english dictionary chivalry would be:-
> 
> the combination of qualities expected of an ideal knight, especially courage, honor , courtesy, justice, and a readiness to help the weak.
> 
> 
> Did they miss mentioning tactical genius? Or being a visionary?*
> 
> There is no 'vision' in working out plans, just comparison of as large a number of options, including unexpected and bold options, and the ability to put them together with logistics capabilities with great care and in great detail.
> 
> Vision comes in only when different tactics are envisaged, or different methods of warfare are developed, or strikingly different armaments or formations are involved.
> 
> For instance, Liddell Hart and de Gaulle, based on Fuller's pioneering work, developed the concept of continuous movement in armoured warfare; Guderian did the detailed planning for the actual penetration of the Maginot Line and the exploitation. Rommel was one of the generals who executed the plan and used it to win major victories.
> 
> In this case, there was no vision, only the Guderian equivalent of excellent planning. And there was no chivalry.
> 
> I think you are using words without a strong understanding of what they mean, and an even less strong understanding of what they mean in warfare and military analysis.



*Again same guessing game of my military prowess, thats besides the topic. I guess the problem starts when certain individuals start making assumptions and comments about the person they are conversing with and end up putting the original topic to back burner. Lets avoid that, who wants to PROVOKE or invite the MODS.*


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## architect_cobb

there are plenty of bengladeshi cadets in the military academies in Pakitan all three of them. I personally know quite a few of them and I feel that most of them are past 1971 euphoria. I also came across certain Bangladeshis during my visits abroad and always found them very friendly and accomodating towards us Pakistanis. At the end of the day I am happy that our Bengali brethren have their own independent country and now we have two Pakistan's in the sub continent instead of one.

PS:- If a public apology was such a big issue on the state level as some are portraying here, we wouldn't have the CONSIDERABLE no of BD cadets in our military academies sent to Pakistan by non other than BD govt itself.

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## Tameem

TechLahore said:


> ^^ I appreciate your views, but there are several Bangladeshi members who posted right above who don't quite seem to agree with your assessment.



Sir, our constituency should be the minds of ordinary Bangladeshis which are emotional and patriotic just like their counterparts in Pakistan.



TechLahore said:


> Nonetheless, I am both happy and proud that you, as a Pakistani, value the relationship with Bangladesh enough to say all that you have said. Kudos!



Why not...Today's Bangladesh Independece is very much owe to the Pakistan movement itself, The equation is so simple.

"If their is no Pakistan in the first place, their is no Bangladesh of today either"

And Yes

*"Long live Pakistan Bangladesh brotherhood"*​

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## American Pakistani

monitor said:


> *1947 *and *1971* both were the event that should happened and Bangladesh and Pakistan are the result of that event .



brother, there is no similarity between 1947 & 1971. & nor Pakistan was result of 47, Pakistan is ideology & so Pakistan is more than 1000years old, perhaps when Muhammad Bin Qasim enter the Sindh territory. 1947 was British leaving subcontinent leaving 2 countries indepandant. 1971 happen when some countries meddled in one other soveriegn country's internal affairs & break it up with the help of local paid collaborators. Btw today both countries are indepandant soveriegn countries free from each others matters. Good Luck & a very happy indepandance, may your country prosper in all fields.


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## LaBong

> Why not...Today's Bangladesh Independece is very much owe to the Pakistan movement itself, The equation is so simple.
> 
> "If their is no Pakistan in the first place, their is no Bangladesh of today either"



Little knowledge in History and you would have known that the movement that materialized as _Pakistan movement _started in part of Bengal which today is called as Bangladesh. It's another issue that the movement later on hijacked by folks from Aligarh.

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## Tameem

Abir said:


> Little knowledge in History and you would have known that the movement that materialized as _Pakistan movement _started in part of Bengal which today is called as Bangladesh. It's another issue that the movement later on hijacked by folks from Aligarh.



OhU Ignorant!! What they have in Bengal is not Pakistan Movement but Bengali Muslim Identification one to secure their rights from sheer Bengali Hindus in United Bengal which was divided by Brits in 1905 and nothing else.

Quote
The Pakistan Movement or Tehrik-e-Pakistan (Urdu: &#1578;&#1581;&#1585;&#1740;&#1705; &#1662;&#1575;&#1705;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606 refers to the independence movement of Pakistan from the British Indian empire and its emergence as a sovereign country. It has its origins in the United Provinces of Agra and Oudh (present day Uttar Pradesh). Muslims there were a minority, yet their elite had a disproportionate amount of representation in the civil service and overall influence. The idea of Pakistan began from this part of Northern India, from the elite of this region to popular following and then onwards to the rest of India.
Unquote
Encyclopedia of Canada's peoples - Google Books

It only becomes Pakistan Movement When in 1930 IQBAL gave his famous Khutab-e-Allahbad.

Quote
I would like to see the Punjab, North-West Frontier Province, Sind and Baluchistan amalgamated into a single State. Self-government within the British Empire, or without the British Empire, the formation of a consolidated North-West Indian Muslim State appears to me to be the final destiny of the Muslims, at least of North-West India.
Unquote
^ Sir Muhammad Iqbals 1930 Presidential Address, from Columbia University site

*Dont put yourself into someones *** unless you are a ****.*


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## LaBong

Tameem said:


> Oh&#8230;U Ignorant!! What they have in Bengal is not Pakistan Movement but &#8220;Bengali Muslim Identification&#8221; one to secure their rights from sheer Bengali Hindus in United Bengal which was divided by Brits in 1905 and nothing else.



The one who is ignorant is you. Bengali Hindus were minority in united Bengal, they didn't oppose the partition rather asked for it in 47 as they were afraid of losing the political clout in united Bengal. 

Brits divided Bengal for different reasons altogether, I can't spoon feed you, internet is good source of information. 



> What they have in Bengal is not Pakistan Movement but &#8220;Bengali Muslim Identification&#8221;



You got it right, and that movement would have given birth to Bangladesh anyway. West Pakistanis had no contribution to the movement, all they offered to Bangladeshis was yet more suffering and more struggle to achieve their goal. In a way Pakistan only prolonged the creation of Bangladesh. 




> The Pakistan Movement or Tehrik-e-Pakistan (Urdu: &#1578;&#1581;&#1585;&#1740;&#1705; &#1662;&#1575;&#1705;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606 refers to the independence movement of Pakistan from the British Indian empire and its emergence as a sovereign country. It has its origins in the United Provinces of Agra and Oudh (present day Uttar Pradesh). Muslims there were a minority, yet their elite had a disproportionate amount of representation in the civil service and overall influence. The idea of Pakistan began from this part of Northern India, from the elite of this region to popular following and then onwards to the rest of India.
> Unquote
> Encyclopedia of Canada's peoples - Google Books
> 
> It only becomes Pakistan Movement When in 1930 IQBAL gave his famous Khutab-e-Allahbad.
> 
> Quote
> I would like to see the Punjab, North-West Frontier Province, Sind and Baluchistan amalgamated into a single State. Self-government within the British Empire, or without the British Empire, the formation of a consolidated North-West Indian Muslim State appears to me to be the final destiny of the Muslims, at least of North-West India.
> Unquote
> ^ Sir Muhammad Iqbal&#8217;s 1930 Presidential Address, from Columbia University site



It only proves North Indian Muslims had no regard for Bengali Muslims, rather they wanted to secure a nation only for themselves. 

However Muslim League was founded in Bengal and also the movement for separate Muslim nation(or a separate Bengali Muslim nation as you might want to say it) was started in Bengal. 




> *Don&#8217;t put yourself into someone&#8217;s *** unless you are a ****.*



Is that an insult? Sounds funny and incoherent anyway.

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## Tameem

Abir said:


> The one who is ignorant is you. Bengali Hindus were minority in united Bengal, they didn't oppose the partition rather asked for it in 47 as they were afraid of losing the political clout in united Bengal.
> Brits divided Bengal for different reasons altogether, I can't spoon feed you, internet is good source of information.
> You got it right, and that movement would have given birth to Bangladesh anyway. West Pakistanis had no contribution to the movement, all they offered to Bangladeshis was yet more suffering and more struggle to achieve their goal. In a way Pakistan only prolonged the creation of Bangladesh.
> It only proves North Indian Muslims had no regard for Bengali Muslims, rather they wanted to secure a nation only for themselves.
> 
> However Muslim League was founded in Bengal and also the movement for separate Muslim nation(or a separate Bengali Muslim nation as you might want to say it) was started in Bengal.
> Is that an insult? Sounds funny and incoherent anyway.



You have clearly off balance and off Target, You first started with ML inception and after my argument turnaround to 47.

You say first, folk of Agra hijacked the movement and than to say they have no remorse for bengalis by offering first subcontinentel wide Muslim country.

All your above quotes suggests that Bengali Muslims treacherously involved in Pakistan Movement just for their vested interests (For Partition of India) and once they got their desired results from the help of North Indians they splits their own way.

Its an insult to Bengali contribution in Pakistan movement and their just regards for today's Pakistan in today's time as well.

You been clearly marked wrong footed and their is no way to linger on to a troll with you for any meaningful debate.

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## LaBong

Tameem said:


> You have clearly off balance and off Target, You first started with ML inception and after my argument turnaround to 47.
> 
> You say first, folk of Agra hijacked the movement and than to say they have no remorse for bengalis by offering first subcontinentel wide Muslim country.



No one has offered them anything, rather they made Pakistan possible. 



> All your above quotes suggests that Bengali Muslims treacherously involved in Pakistan Movement just for their vested interests (For Partition of India) and once they got their desired results from the help of North Indians they splits their own way.



Bengali Muslims started the movement, they can't be _treacherously involved_ in something which has been started by themselves.



> Its an insult to Bengali contribution in Pakistan movement and their just regards for today's Pakistan in today's time as well.



Good, atleast you acknowledged their contribution. Next time don't come up with silly comments like Bangladeshis has their country because of Pakistan, when people from present day Pakistan didn't have much contribution to Pakistan movement at all.



> You been clearly marked wrong footed and their is no way to linger on to a troll with you for any meaningful debate.



Ad hominem.

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## Tameem

Abir said:


> Next time don't come up with silly comments like Bangladeshis has their country because of Pakistan













If you'r going through Hell...Just Keep Going


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## LaBong

Tameem said:


> If you'r going through Hell...Just Keep Going



Yeah that's my advice to you. Don't be disheartened by contemporary events, stay strong.


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## leonblack08

Tameem said:


> If Mujib die a natural death the picture is more clear in Pak-Bangla relations, but unfortunately for Pak-Bangla relations he was murdered in cold blood and the matter becomes more complicated since than as AL squarely blames Pakistan and its agents for all this and continue to hijack all venues of cooperation between both of these countries successfully in the minds of ordinary Bangladeshis.



Although I am going off-topic, A theory exists that it was in fact RAW and KGBs plan to have him assassinated.That is because of the fact he was moving towards normalizing relations with Pakistan.Such as defying Indian wishes to attend the OIC meeting.
The other factor was that he was a capitalist.And if I am not wrong, his rakhkhi bahini were purging the socialists-the pro moscow elements.So probably that prompted the KGB to get involved and stage the coup.This is according to a former KGB agent Yuri Alexandrovich Bezmenov.

This came out a few years back in the largest national daily of Bangladesh-Prothom alo.Although no concrete evidence is available for this theory.If I recall,even the daily mentioned it was a theory, not fact.


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## fatman17

Home
Pakistan
Business
*Our 1971 debacle*

The writer is chief executive officer of Bank Alfalah sirajuddin.aziz@tribune.com.pk 

December is cold. Its nights are long and the days are sun-starved. Every December, since 1971, I get into an unexplainable mood of depression. That year, I had stepped into my teens and was like any other young lad, passionately in love with my beloved country, Pakistan. It was during this time that my ideals of Pakistan being a citadel of Islam were crushed to a cold death. The unnecessary war of December 1971 with India, saw the dismemberment of the then, largest Islamic state and the event heralded in me, a new awakening  religion was not a binding force, anymore! The youthful and emotional idealism of a unified, single Ummah caved into a dismal pit of anger and denial.

Asghar Khan in his book, We Have Learnt Nothing From History aptly remarks, The verdict of the electorate (1970 elections) was unexpected and baffled not only the political pundits but also the contesting partiesThe Bengalis had been known for their massive support to a single political organisation, once they believed it deserved their confidenceAmongst the provinces that later formed a part of Pakistan their contribution to the battle of the ballot was most valuable and their sense of patriotism probably the most developed. So how was it, that the most patriotic segment of the country decided to revolt and secede?

Refusal to accept the results of the 1970 elections by the political parties of the western wing, who had the tacit support of the power-drunk generals, paved the way for the long-simmering hatred to surface with full might and venom. The military struck with all its might in March 1971, not realising that no army in history had ever won against its own people.

On December 17, I remember watching the six o clock English news on PTV, whereupon the fall of Dhaka  the humiliating spectacle of a ceremony of surrender at the Dhaka Race Course Ground  was shown to an aghast, shocked and miserably demoralised nation. In recent history, no army general had ever been stripped of his badges, in full public view. And here General Tiger Niazi (may Allah bless his soul) who, a day earlier, had said Dhaka  over my dead body was signing the instrument of surrender! I cried bitterly, avoiding eye contact with other family members. We were all devastated. East Pakistan had been lost, Jinnahs dream and effort lay in shambles.

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, despite his histrionics and dramatic performance at the UN Security Council, seemed like a God-sent messiah to us, when he said: We will make a new Pakistan. He lifted our courage and morale for which he deserves full credit. He restored respect to the armed forces by declaring in every speech Pakistan lost a political battle, not a military war.

Sarmila Bose is assistant editor at the widely-read, Anandabazar Patrika, and a niece of Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose. Writing on the 1971 war, she said something that we, today, would do well to heed: There is much for Pakistan to come to terms with what happened in 1971. But the answers dont lie in the unthinking vilification of the fighting men who performed so well in the war against such heavy odds, in defence of national policy. Rather, in failing to honour them, the nation dishonours itself.

Oh! deathly cold December, thou shall always be in mourning.

Published in The Express Tribune, December 16th, 2010.
Sirajuddin Aziz

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## GUNNER

fatman17 said:


> But the answers dont lie in the unthinking vilification of the fighting men who performed so well in the war against such heavy odds, in defence of national policy. Rather, in failing to honour them, the nation dishonours itself.



So true indeed !


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## DeathGod

fatman17 said:


> Home
> Pakistan
> Business
> *Our 1971 debacle*
> 
> December is cold. Its nights are long and the days are sun-starved. Every December, since 1971, I get into an unexplainable mood of depression.



I have always struggled to understand why a particular section of Pakistani citizens feel that 1971 was a great loss and cause of misery.
As far as my understanding goes , the model on which Bangladesh(former east Pakistan) & Pakistan( former West Pakistan) operated was sustainable.

Two nations seperated by sleuths of land and endless miles on Ocean. Difference in culture , weather , food , language and everything else.On top of that the continious partiality of rulers towards West Pakistan. So many factors for a very large population with a large landmass to break free and be independent.

Also I think Bangladesh has prospered much more after the seperation. Even after the partiality I find it hard to see East Pakistan standing up to West Pakistan under any scenario .

I think it was right for these two diverse and populous land masses to be independent of each other.


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## Skies

> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-apology-over-armys-wrongdoings-1971-war.html





Fasih Khan said:


> In my Opinion both of our Nations should move forward, forgetting the past. We Pakistanis did our Odds by neglecting our eastern wing and by not giving the due respects to our brothers on the other side of border. Bangoli's did their part by excepting Indian help which they are still paying the price off by different means till the date. We need to End going back to historical Odds and increase Cooperation, both our Nations need to get united to stand up to the common and the Real Foe, *India*.
> 
> Even If a Single Rape case has happened from either side we Pakistanis and Bangladeshis (I'm sure they would) are Ashamed of such disgusting, barbaric and Inhuman acts of some Inhumans. Thankfully we are not ''Indians'' to support every and any Inhuman Acts on the name of national service.
> As a Pakistani I ask forgiveness on behalf of Pakistan for even a slightest wrong doing by my people to my brothers and sisters in Bangladesh. We Wish and Pray for their Wellbeing.
> 
> *Pakistan & Bangladesh Zindabaad
> *



IMO:

Apart from this forum, I&#8217;m not seeing any trace of hope that may bring a brotherly relationship between Bangladesh and Pakistan in real life. Now, every day our new generation is exposing to overblown information of killing and torturing in 1971 by AL media (TV and newspaper). Now the sentiment of 1971 works so strongly in young generation. Before AL has come, the situation was not like today. AL media are correlating everything with 1971 to build up only a 1971 based ideology in people. They are very claver. They want to show that only they have liberated BD to get votes. AL has been exploiting 1971 in such way that we have no other achievement in our history. Here are some examples from many others:

1. After eviction of Khaleda Zia, one AL-journalist said that this is the end of 1971 war after 40 years. But there is no relation between Khaleda&#8217;s eviction and 1971.

2. On the other hand, other AL-people are saying that 1971-war will never finish before executing all Razakars.

3. Few days ago, some Islamic parties (who are considered as Razakers in AL&#8217;s eyes) in BD called for Hartal in December for some internal issues and Khaleda Zia supported those Islamic parties. But AL-Hasina is saying how Khaleda can support Islamic parties&#8217; Hatal being a wife of a freedom fighter (Gen. Zia) to twist the facts and hide AL&#8217;s failures.

4. Besides, if we look back in 1999, when BD won against PK in cricket then only Hasina (no other else in BD) commented that, &#8220;we defeated PK in 1971 and we defeated them again&#8221;!

Today&#8217;s BD generation wants to see a progressive and self-dependent BD only. They are very sentimental. You might notice how they stood against the building of Tapaimikhi-Dam by India. There were massive protest and activities in universities, streets, newspaper and Facebook. So if you see any Bangladeshi hates PK after exposing to the daily soaps or any misinformation by AL-media then Pakistanis should not blame them. Our youngs also wonder if today PK&#8217;s own people can bomb on its own people then how would killed BD&#8217;s people in war. So, since we have lack of knowing about each other and we communication gap with PK, GOP can work on to minimize the gap of understanding if PK is interested in good relation. Otherwise, I do not reckon on any sudden change in the view by our youngs towards PK soon.



But I hope our youngs will seek for good relation and all are not same.

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## American Pakistani

Skies said:


> 4. Besides, if we look back in 1999, when BD won against PK in cricket then only Hasina (no other else in BD) commented that, we defeated PK in 1971 and we defeated them again!
> 
> 
> But I hope our youngs will seek for good relation and all are not same.



Wow, i hear this for first time, did any of Pakistani memeber see this point that how much hatred is in some of Bangladeshi people? I remember i was soo young kid that time & i saw happiness & joy & Bangladesh brothers this & that, no one seems upset, & cuz they are ruling Bangladesh so it means majority support their views(plz no offence to those many Bdshis like Skies bro,Al Zaki bro etc, i m pointing to odr majority ones) but non of Pakistani media care to show this message......wow nice blind going Pakistan, keeping your own Pakistani ppl blind.

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## Skies

^ dont bother, it was only our la-hasina, no other told like her. She told that in local media, so you guys do not know that. 

Once upon a time Pakistan was the most favorite team to most of people in BD. 

And there is nothing called majority in BD. In BD either BNP or AL wins always with 2/3 majority. This is the system here. When people get frustrated then maximum votes automatically go to opposite party every time.

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## Al-zakir

AmericanPaki said:


> Wow, i hear this for first time, did any of Pakistani memeber see this point that how much hatred is in some of Bangladeshi people? I remember i was soo young kid that time & i saw happiness & joy & Bangladesh brothers this & that, no one seems upset, & cuz they are ruling Bangladesh so it means majority support their views(plz no offence to those many Bdshis like Skies bro,Al Zaki bro etc, i m pointing to odr majority ones) but non of Pakistani media care to show this message......wow nice blind going Pakistan, keeping your own Pakistani ppl blind.



Brother don't worry. Pakistan cricket team is like our criket team and majority support you guys hands down. Some open about it, other just shy. 

Tell you secret, we have literally beaten up some punk because he supported team India over Pakistan in Bangladesh. Good old days. 

By the way, La-Hasina was declare "wrong headed lady" by Supreme Court of Bangladesh and she is also self proclaimed "national traitor"( Qomi Ghaddar).

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

shekhar said:


> i wonder still pak gov doensnt mention the mistake they did i mean bangaladesh's population was 54% but their share was just 7 to 8% in gov posts still they feel tat it was india who divided pak
> india actually took advantage of opportunity which was made during last 25 years
> india came to picture in only last 2 years thats it




- - No one from the government talks about East Pakistan issue because the facts are not clear. Every individual comes up with a different history about the 70's incident.


- - As far as the indian involvement is concerned; it is not just that "_India took advantage_" stuff. The indian army was also found violating human rights and committing atrocities, which must be answered by india as well. .


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## KS

Abir said:


> Good, atleast you acknowledged their contribution. *Next time don't come up with silly comments like Bangladeshis has their country because of Pakistan,* when people from present day Pakistan didn't have much contribution to Pakistan movement at all.



Thinking from a different perspective, _Bangladeshis_ do owe their country to Pakistan(and its actions).


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Skies said:


> IMO:
> 
> Apart from this forum, Im not seeing any trace of hope that may bring a brotherly relationship between Bangladesh and Pakistan in real life. Now, every day our new generation is exposing to overblown information of killing and torturing in 1971 by AL media (TV and newspaper). Now the sentiment of 1971 works so strongly in young generation. Before AL has come, the situation was not like today. AL media are correlating everything with 1971 to build up only a 1971 based ideology in people. They are very claver. They want to show that only they have liberated BD to get votes. AL has been exploiting 1971 in such way that we have no other achievement in our history. Here are some examples from many others:
> 
> 1. After eviction of Khaleda Zia, one AL-journalist said that this is the end of 1971 war after 40 years. But there is no relation between Khaledas eviction and 1971.
> 
> 2. On the other hand, other AL-people are saying that 1971-war will never finish before executing all Razakars.
> 
> 3. Few days ago, some Islamic parties (who are considered as Razakers in ALs eyes) in BD called for Hartal in December for some internal issues and Khaleda Zia supported those Islamic parties. But AL-Hasina is saying how Khaleda can support Islamic parties Hatal being a wife of a freedom fighter (Gen. Zia) to twist the facts and hide ALs failures.
> 
> 4. Besides, if we look back in 1999, when BD won against PK in cricket then only Hasina (no other else in BD) commented that, we defeated PK in 1971 and we defeated them again!
> 
> Todays BD generation wants to see a progressive and self-dependent BD only. They are very sentimental. You might notice how they stood against the building of Tapaimikhi-Dam by India. There were massive protest and activities in universities, streets, newspaper and Facebook. So if you see any Bangladeshi hates PK after exposing to the daily soaps or any misinformation by AL-media then Pakistanis should not blame them. Our youngs also wonder if today PKs own people can bomb on its own people then how would killed BDs people in war. So, since we have lack of knowing about each other and we communication gap with PK, GOP can work on to minimize the gap of understanding if PK is interested in good relation. Otherwise, I do not reckon on any sudden change in the view by our youngs towards PK soon.
> 
> 
> 
> But I hope our youngs will seek for good relation and all are not same.





sad to hear this. But try your best to convince people around you that we still consider Bangladeshis our brothers. I dont know who was responsible for the division but even at that time many people in West Pakistan died of heart attack after knowing of the seperation. . .


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## KS

Al-zakir said:


> Tell you secret, we have literally beaten up some punk because he supported team India over Pakistan in Bangladesh. Good old days.



Secret ??? we all know what Rajakars did and will do .


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## LaBong

Karthic Sri said:


> Secret ??? we all know what Rajakars did and will do .



And how Rajakars are treated as well!


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## Skies

Karthic Sri said:


> Secret ??? we all know what Rajakars did and will do .



We will decide who were Razakers and how much right or wrong was Razarkars? If some were killer and criminal then some were patriot in perspective of United Pakistan. You no need to spread propaganda here!

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## KS

Skies said:


> We will decide who were Razakers and how much right or wrong was Razarkars? If some were killer and criminal then some were *patriot in perspective of United Pakistan*. You no need to spread propaganda here!



Most of the Terrorists are 'patriots' to _their_ cause. So what is your point ?

And Razakars should not sport the flag of the nation to whose creation they were bitterly opposed to.


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## Skies

Karthic Sri said:


> Most of the Terrorists are 'patriots' to _their_ cause. So what is your point ?



There may have many shades of meaning of one word and sentence. You are supposed to understand what I mean.




Karthic Sri said:


> And Razakars should not sport the flag of the nation to whose creation they were bitterly opposed to.



Well, those so called Razakars (a bad character made by AL and India) were citizen of United Pakistan, so their love for Pakistan was legitimate. But since BD is liberated now and those Razakars are belong to BDland by *born*, so their playing of BD flag is also legitimate. 

But I agree, if any people (Razakar) helped in killing *any innocent* people (not all) to PK army, then they are criminal.

I am not interested to answer any BS.


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## fallstuff

Skies said:


> IMO:
> 
> Apart from this forum, Im not seeing any trace of hope that may bring a brotherly relationship between Bangladesh and Pakistan in real life. Now, every day our new generation is exposing to overblown information of killing and torturing in 1971 by AL media (TV and newspaper). Now the sentiment of 1971 works so strongly in young generation. Before AL has come, the situation was not like today. AL media are correlating everything with 1971 to build up only a 1971 based ideology in people. They are very claver. They want to show that only they have liberated BD to get votes. AL has been exploiting 1971 in such way that we have no other achievement in our history. Here are some examples from many others:
> 
> 1. After eviction of Khaleda Zia, one AL-journalist said that this is the end of 1971 war after 40 years. But there is no relation between Khaledas eviction and 1971.
> 
> 2. On the other hand, other AL-people are saying that 1971-war will never finish before executing all Razakars.
> 
> 3. Few days ago, some Islamic parties (who are considered as Razakers in ALs eyes) in BD called for Hartal in December for some internal issues and Khaleda Zia supported those Islamic parties. But AL-Hasina is saying how Khaleda can support Islamic parties Hatal being a wife of a freedom fighter (Gen. Zia) to twist the facts and hide ALs failures.
> 
> 4. Besides, if we look back in 1999, when BD won against PK in cricket then only Hasina (no other else in BD) commented that, we defeated PK in 1971 and we defeated them again!
> 
> Todays BD generation wants to see a progressive and self-dependent BD only. They are very sentimental. You might notice how they stood against the building of Tapaimikhi-Dam by India. There were massive protest and activities in universities, streets, newspaper and Facebook. So if you see any Bangladeshi hates PK after exposing to the daily soaps or any misinformation by AL-media then Pakistanis should not blame them. Our youngs also wonder if today PKs own people can bomb on its own people then how would killed BDs people in war. So, since we have lack of knowing about each other and we communication gap with PK, GOP can work on to minimize the gap of understanding if PK is interested in good relation. Otherwise, I do not reckon on any sudden change in the view by our youngs towards PK soon.
> 
> 
> 
> But I hope our youngs will seek for good relation and all are not same.



Shutting down TV stations or propaganda through their own mouth piece is nothing new in Bangladesh. Its been going on for most of Bangladesh's existence. Hasina is going way too far this time in playing politics. The last time she was around just before the re-election, she attempted to influence the election by making several changes in Administration. 

Seems like she has inherited all the fine qualities her father displayed following independence. 

I am pretty sure people will see through all this BS in the next election. Unfortunately Khaleda Zia is the other option. I guess one has to choose the lesser devil in absence of better options.


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## Skies

Just wondering, what would happen if Japan rant for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Has US apologized yet?


And how AL accuse Islamic parties for using Islam, if others also accuse AL for using 1971 to make people sentimental or fool.


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## KS

Skies said:


> Just wondering, what would happen if Japan rant for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Has US apologized yet?



Why will Japan ask for a verbal apology when huge apologies in the shape of the US 7 th fleet guards Japan from any external threat ?

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## KS

Skies said:


> Well, those so called Razakars (a bad character made by AL and India) were citizen of United Pakistan, so their love for Pakistan was legitimate. But since BD is liberated now and those *Razakars are belong to BDland by born, so their playing of BD flag is also legitimate. *
> 
> But I agree, if any people (Razakar) helped in killing *any innocent* people (not all) to PK army, then they are criminal.
> 
> I am not interested to answer any BS.



Just being born in a land doesnt give you the right to sport the flag.

It is the pride in your nation (Bangladesh) and its culture that gives you that right and I see that is absent in those Razakars.

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## Dance

Karthic Sri said:


> Just being born in a land doesnt give you the right to sport the flag.
> 
> It is the pride in your nation (Bangladesh) and its culture that gives you that right and I see that is absent in those Razakars.



So people who dislike india and want to have normal, friendly relations with Pakistan are "razkars" what gives you indians the right to call people razkars? Do you see Pakistanis go around calling indian muslims razkars or traitors cause they chose to stay in india rather then go to Pakistan?

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## Skies

Karthic Sri said:


> Just being born in a land doesnt give you the right to sport the flag.
> 
> *It is the pride in your nation (Bangladesh) and its culture that gives you that right and I see that is absent in those Razakars.*



The matter of pride comes from the expectation and personal choices that someone has to his country and own culture. Also everyone's ideology is not same. I do not want to confine my ideological view in banglali-based ideology only. Personally, I do not like something (like AL-type thinking) about my own country too. But if I ever see any of my countrymen or my country is in any trouble then I think I must work for my countrymen and country.

*And another thing, if there will be any war between BD and India, then I do not think every Bangladeshi will work for Bangladesh, especially, the Hindu people. Because they have some different view and feeling. So there is nothing to make a national issue now after 40 years for few people who were loyal to his existing country.*


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## KS

Dance said:


> So people who dislike india and want to have normal, friendly relations with Pakistan are "razkars" what gives you indians the right to call people razkars? Do you see Pakistanis go around calling indian muslims razkars or traitors cause they chose to stay in india rather then go to Pakistan?



People who are born in India and *abuse* India are traitors. People who want India to be again a colony of the British are Razakars.

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## TopCat

Skies said:


> *And another thing, if there will be any war between BD and India, then I do not think every Bangladeshi will work for Bangladesh, especially, the Hindu people. Because they have some different view and feeling. So there is nothing to make a national issue now after 40 years for few people who were loyal to his existing country.*



They did not even fight against Pakistan in 1971 when they were the worst sufferer. The biggest question is WHY? Dont you think we muslim supposed to be blamed for?

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## Joe Shearer

Skies said:


> The matter of pride comes from the expectation and personal choices that someone has to his country and own culture. Also everyone's ideology are not same. *I do not want to confine my ideological view in banglali-based ideology only.* Personally, I do not like something (like AL-type thinking) about my own country too. But if I ever see any of my countrymen or my country is in any trouble then I think I must work for my countrymen and country.



This makes very confusing reading. Certainly, everyone's ideology is not the same. 

Certainly, *class warfare* is a tenet of some ideologies, sometimes, not always, combined with internationalism. Is that your belief system? 

If it is not, and yet it is not *Bengali ethnic loyalty*, what are your political views exactly? What is then left out and available to be upheld? 

Is it the concept of *the state, ruled by a strong man*, supported by the military, empowered to mobilise the commercial and corporate sectors to further the mission and strengthen the One Leader?

Is it a religious concept, a *homeland for Bengalis *who happen to be Muslim?

"...everyone's ideology is not the same..."

If it is not too must trouble, could you say what is your ideology?



Skies said:


> And another thing, *if* there will be any war between BD and India, then I do not think every Bangladeshi will work for Bangladesh, especially, the Hindu people. Because they have some different view and feeling. So there is nothing to make a national issue now after 40 years for few people who were loyal to his existing country.



Are your views packaged and wrapped in that statement above? Is that what it is, finally?

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## Skies

iajdani said:


> They did not even fight against Pakistan in 1971 when they were the worst sufferer. The biggest question is WHY? *Dont you think we muslim supposed to be blamed for?*



No, may be Hindus never could love BD wholeheartedly for having the Muslim majority here. May be Hindus did not feel like patriot freedom fighters. May be Hindus just wanted to be safe or to escape.


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## Al-zakir

Abir said:


> And how Rajakars are treated as well!



You need ask to La-hasina that how does it feel to give her daughter to son of a self proclaimed Razakar and yes he did killed a lot Hindus. Don't come up with any other logic because this truth is the truth.


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## Skies

Joe Shearer said:


> I*f it is not too must trouble, could you say what is your ideology?*
> 
> 
> 
> *Are your views packaged and wrapped in that statement above? Is that what it is, finally?*




1. I do not believe that I must have to like everything of my native culture. I may dislike some rites and norms which are followed in our Bangali culture, and also I may prefer somethings from other cultures more than ours. 

Again, to some people, 1971 is their ideology but to me it was an incident. They want to build Bangladesh on basis of 1971-based ideology, but I think in different way. I would like to see a time-and situation based ideology. I mean my ideology believes in changing ideology which may be blend of different ideologies. I do not like to cling only with 1971's ideology or what Mujib or AL or our people thought 40 years ago.

2. yes, I think so. I mentioned that I think.

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## Skies

Marathi said:


> You bangladeshis have your own country so please go back. We don't like illegal criminal bangladeshis in Maharashtra. Shiv Sena should kick them out!



Can India show us by a documentary video on how much illegal Bangladeshis are in India. Make sure they are claiming themselves as Bangladeshi, and they are specifically giving their address in Bangladesh. We will go to those area in BD respectively to ask other Bangladeshis or their relatives whether they are Bangladeshi or not and whether they know those illegal immigrants or not. lol.

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## eastwatch

REHAN NIAZI FALCON said:


> sir answer is there,
> two factors
> 1) our poor and visionless and carpetbegger leadership that was unable to keep balance and harmony that provided anti PAKISTAN elements to execute their evil plans
> 2) indian agents under cover of bangali nationalsim that raised racisl jealousy among our bangali brothers and poor handling of that issue by our power hungry leaders worstened the situation and led to legtimacy of thsoe separatist movements ...



I, like many other Bangladeshis, would accept your 1st point. But, we cannot accept your 2nd point. India had no role in our politics or to create an anti-Pakistan sentiment before 1971. West Pakistani troops' heineous behaviour was enpugh to do that. 

When a man's hand slaps his own face, how he can blame others? So, why blame India for 1971? Blame your generals and politicians like Ayub Khan, Z. A. Bhutto and Yahya Khan instead of blaming India. These leaders forced us to get help from an eager India. 

How could we have stopped ourselves when the troops were killing any one who could hold a rifle. Pakistani troops unnecessarily machinegunned our Police in Razarbaag HQ who had only a few bullets in their .303 rifles. Your troops were killing Bangali troops in Punjab, Baluch and Bengal Regiments. Many thousands of startled Bangali troops were suddenly disarmed and killed point blank. 

Don't you think that these were enough reasons to seek help from an willing India who was an enemy of our enemy?

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## LaBong

Al-zakir said:


> You need ask to La-hasina that how does it feel to give her daughter to son of a self proclaimed Razakar and yes he did killed a lot Hindus. Don't come up with any other logic because this truth is the truth.


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## Joe Shearer

Skies said:


> 1. I do not believe that I must have to like everything of my native culture. I may dislike some rites and norms which are followed in our Bangali culture, and also I may prefer somethings from other cultures more than ours.



Makes perfect sense. No issues with this point of view at all.



Skies said:


> Again, to some people, 1971 is their ideology but to me it was an incident. They want to build Bangladesh on basis of 1971-based ideology, but I think in different way. I would like to see a time-and situation based ideology. I mean my ideology believes in changing ideology which may be blend of different ideologies. I do not like to cling only with 1971's ideology or what Mujib or AL or our people thought 40 years ago.



Again, what you are saying is logical enough, but I have a quarrel about your definitions. You are referring, not to ideology, but to policy. Policy can, and should change from time to time. Ideology should not be quite so flexible, although there is definitely reason to modify one's ideology if material conditions change.



Skies said:


> 2. yes, I think so. I mentioned that I think.



There is a lot that is implied here. From your answers, I suspect that these implications may not have been quite apparent. I am therefore drafting a comment with some care, not to be misunderstood by you or by others. Bear with me while I put it together.


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## LaBong

Marathi said:


> Bangladeshis are ashamed of their home country so that wont do. There are numerous facts claiming there are millions of illegal bangladeshis in India. These illegal criminals are worst than illegal Afghanis in Pakistan or illegal Mexicans in America!



Poor argument. 

When you say there are numerous facts, then you as well should show the facts, else the facts are void.

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## justanobserver

Skies said:


> Just wondering, what would happen if Japan rant for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Has US apologized yet?



Japan was bombed for a reason, the US does not have to apologize. Japan is the one which should giving apologies.


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## TopCat

Skies said:


> No, may be Hindus never could love BD wholeheartedly for having the Muslim majority here. May be Hindus did not feel like patriot freedom fighters. May be Hindus just wanted to be safe or to escape.



It is majorities' responsibility to make the minorities' to feel it's their home. If not then there is something wrong from majorities' part

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## Aslan

Faiz Ahmed Faiz wrote this when he returned from a visit of Dhaka after East Pakistan Separation and Bangladesh Independence.

Eng translation for those who cant read urdu.

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## TopCat

khalidali said:


> Faiz Ahmed Faiz wrote this when he returned from a visit of Dhaka after East Pakistan Separation and Bangladesh Independence.
> 
> Eng translation for those who cant read urdu.



Awami League proposed to celebrate the 100th birth anniversy together with pakistan of Some Poet of Pakistan. Is it Faiz Ahmed Faiz??


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## Fasih Khan

iajdani said:


> Awami League proposed to celebrate the 100th birth anniversy together with pakistan of Some Poet of Pakistan. Is it Faiz Ahmed Faiz??



Lolz Not Buddy .... Not Faiz ... He's Not that Old ... *Probably Dr. Muhammad Allama Iqbal.*


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## lonelyone

Bangladesh has not prospered. After independence, Sheikh Mujib with his socialist policies totally destroyed the country from top to bottom. All industries, universities, etc. were destroyed due to his and his party's mismanagement and corruption. Of course, after his rapist nephew raped some wife of a army officer Sheikh Mujib, his rapist nephew and all his family was killed in a coup by that officer. 

Of course on the positive side we don't have suicide bombs exploding every day, and on that front we're better than Pakistan. But we now import machines from Pakistan, which we used to make ourselves when we were East Pakistan. sad situation.


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## eastwatch

Tameem said:


> OhU Ignorant!! What they have in Bengal is not Pakistan Movement but Bengali Muslim Identification one to secure their rights from sheer Bengali Hindus in United Bengal which was divided by Brits in 1905 and nothing else.
> 
> Quote
> The Pakistan Movement or Tehrik-e-Pakistan (Urdu: &#1578;&#1581;&#1585;&#1740;&#1705; &#1662;&#1575;&#1705;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606 refers to the independence movement of Pakistan from the British Indian empire and its emergence as a sovereign country. It has its origins in the United Provinces of Agra and Oudh (present day Uttar Pradesh). Muslims there were a minority, yet their elite had a disproportionate amount of representation in the civil service and overall influence. The idea of Pakistan began from this part of Northern India, from the elite of this region to popular following and then onwards to the rest of India.
> Unquote
> Encyclopedia of Canada's peoples - Google Books
> 
> It only becomes Pakistan Movement When in 1930 IQBAL gave his famous Khutab-e-Allahbad.
> 
> Quote
> I would like to see the Punjab, North-West Frontier Province, Sind and Baluchistan amalgamated into a single State. Self-government within the British Empire, or without the British Empire, the formation of a consolidated North-West Indian Muslim State appears to me to be the final destiny of the Muslims, at least of North-West India.
> Unquote
> ^ Sir Muhammad Iqbals 1930 Presidential Address, from Columbia University site
> 
> *Dont put yourself into someones *** unless you are a ****.*


 
No menifestos, placards, poems, night dreams or Bayans by the north Indians were responsible for the creation of Pakistan. Muslims of Bengal and Bihar were mostly resposible for the Pakistan Movement and creation of Pakistan. You have to understand that all the Provinces of today's Pakistan had voted for Muslim League in the Provincial election that was held in 1946.

It was only Bengal where Muslim League was given a majority seats in that election. It was Calcutta where the then Chief Minister H.S. Suhrawardy went for a 'Direct Action Day' to prove that Hindus and Muslims are two different people. All the present day Provinces of Pakistan voted for CONGRESS. 

So, your forefathers were not in favour of creating Pakistan. But, Bengalis were ahead of you. We voted for Muslim League. It was this Province that pursued the British that a partition was needed. Moreover, All-India Muslim League itself was formed in Dhaka in 1912(?). 

Note also that the Lahore Resolution of 1940 was proclaimed by the then Chief Minister of Bengal, Fazlul Haque. After this bold declaration the participants bestowed him with slogans like Sher-e-Bangal Zindabad. He is still called by Sher-e-Bangal in Bangladesh. But, why it was him to proclaim that resolution? It was because he was the only Muslim League Chief Minister in the British India.

Please read a proper history book and do not try to indulge on fabricating that unjustly disfavours people in Bengal who had more contribution than your people to create Pakistan. However you try, you will not be able to erase the sacrifice that Bengali Muslims made to form Pakistan.

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## integra

^^^ Muslim league was formed in Dacca during 1906 not 1912.

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## Al-zakir

Why didn't we keep the name East Pakistan since we led the movement and created Pakistan? I am curious.


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## integra

^^our role had more to do with initiating a movement,
anyways maybe bacause Bangladesh sounds more Bangla.
(actually I'm not sure, spare my ignorance but Urdu and Hindi always sounds similar to me)


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## Water Car Engineer

Al-zakir said:


> Why didn't we keep the name East Pakistan since we led the movement and created Pakistan? I am curious.


 
You wanted to keep East Pakistan? Your are a rare Bangladeshi...


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## Al-zakir

integra said:


> ^^our role had more to do with initiating a movement,
> anyways maybe bacause Bangladesh sounds more Bangla.
> (actually I'm not sure, spare my ignorance but Urdu and Hindi always sounds similar to me)


 
If you talking about Bollywood movie and song then it's actually Urdu however if you listen to Man Mohan singh then it's Hindi. 

Urdu use more Farsi and Arabic words while real Hindi full of Sanskrit.

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## Al-zakir

Liquid said:


> You wanted to keep East Pakistan? Your are a rare Bangladeshi...


 
What was wrong with the name East Pakistan. Pakistan simply mean_ land of pure._


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## integra

.....................................................................


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## Skies

I have some little cousins and sisters. They are in class 5 or 6. When they talk to each other they prefer to talk in Hindi. Though they have no idea about Urdu which has got more and more beautiful words than Hindi. I asked them why do you talk in Hindi. They told me that they simply like Hindi more than Bangla, because they think Hindi is more beautiful and rhythmic. Though Bangla is also rich for having large amount to vocabulary, and it is also possible to talk with rhythms in Bangla too. But I think it's easier to talk rhythmically in Urdu than Bangla. Also I think, due to having lack of vocabulary of Bangla words they cannot enjoy Bangla well as like Hindi or urdu.

Anyway, after knowing their preference for Hindi I have understood that there can not be any obligatory reason to have more love for Bangla. Someone can prefer Hindi or Urdu or English more if s/he founds that more sweet and interesting. We can not blame them. This is completely their personal choice.

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## LaBong

Lol and some of Bangladeshis say we in Calcutta speak Hindi. Granted we are multilingual, but at-least kids here don't speak in a language which is not native!  

I think Bangladeshis should start learning Urdu/Hindi and name their country Pakistan/East Pakistan.

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## akash57

Al-zakir said:


> Why didn't we keep the name East Pakistan since we led the movement and created Pakistan? I am curious.





Abir said:


> Lol and some of Bangladeshis say we in Calcutta speak Hindi. Granted we are multilingual, but at-least kids here don't speak in a language which is not native!
> 
> I think Bangladeshis should start learning Urdu/Hindi and name their country Pakistan/East Pakistan.


 
To be perfectly honest, I personally would not mind if the country was still called East Pakistan or if Urdu was still taught, and this isn't because I'm ashamed or Bangladesh and Bangla or anything like that, but just because it was US who leaded Tehreek-e-Pakistan and I personally find Urdu to be an easy language to learn if you already speak Bangla. But anyways, that's just my two cents, I'm not going to declare war on the BDeshi govt. or anything to change it or add Urdu the curriculum.. yet


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## LaBong

akash57 said:


> To be perfectly honest, I personally would not mind if the country was still called East Pakistan or if Urdu was still taught, and this isn't because I'm ashamed or Bangladesh and Bangla or anything like that, but just because it was US who leaded Tehreek-e-Pakistan and I personally find Urdu to be an easy language to learn if you already speak Bangla. But anyways, that's just my two cents, I'm not going to declare war on the BDeshi govt. or anything to change it or add Urdu the curriculum.. yet


 
I never been to Bangladesh, but if we go by this forum, you guys don't sound Bengali at all. You should name your country Pakistan or Bangistan(as proposed historically). There was a proposal from WB state govt to GoI to remove the West part and rename our state as Bengal, they should once again take up the issue to GoI. 

Yes Urdu/Hindi is easy if you know Bengali, as both were evolved from Prakrit. So Bangladeshis already have an advantage in learning Urdu.


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## ifesvr

I thought the name Pakistan was derived as explained by many from their provinces of *P*unjab, *A*fghan areas, *K*ashmir, *S*indh and Balochis*tan*.


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## LaBong

ifesvr said:


> I thought the name Pakistan was derived as explained by many from their provinces of *P*unjab, *A*fghan areas, *K*ashmir, *S*indh and Balochis*tan*.


 
Yes you are indeed right, but who told you Bangladeshis aren't (wannabe) Punjabi, Afghani, Kashmiri, Sindhi and Balochi!


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## eastwatch

Al-zakir said:


> Why didn't we keep the name East Pakistan since we led the movement and created Pakistan? I am curious.


 
Even after partition this Province retained the name East Bengal for many years. Later, when I do not remember, the name was changed to east Pakistan. Before Pakistan Movement started in the sub-continent, Chodhury Rahmat Ali foresee two separate entities in the east and west. He named the east as Bangistan. 

This Province was called Subeh Bangalah by the Delhi Mughals. Before that it was called Gaur. However, historians believe it was named as GHOR and was given by the Turkic Bakhtier Khilji. But, the local Hindus could not pronounce it properly, so the name changed to Gaur. 

This Gaur was called Lakkhanabati before the muslim occupation. However, for the immigrant Muslims it was very difficult to pronounce. So, the name changed to Lukhnouti by the immigrant muslims. 

This name has a historical background since the Mughal time. So, it was accepted by the people who inhabit it. By the way, I do not think if there were two separate muslim countries fornmed in 1947, the name would have been east Pakistan. Rather, it would have either been East Bengal or Bangladesh. 

Pakistan Movement was a symbolic movement the purpose of which was to build one or two states in the muslim majority parts, as declared in the Lahore Resolution. This Resolution did not specify the name of the would be country. Before 1971 all the Bangali nationalist parties would say of Lahore Resolution to get Provincial autonomy or outright separation.


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## eastwatch

Al-zakir said:


> What was wrong with the name East Pakistan. Pakistan simply mean_ land of pure._


 
PAKISTAN. P stands for Punjab, A stands for Afghaniya (NW Frontier), K stands for Kashmir, I stands for Iran, S stands for Sindh, T stands for Turkey, A stands for Afghanistan, and N stands for baluchistaN. All together it is PAKISTAN. Trying to find a meaning of this word is a meaningless effort. The word is just a sound. with asymbolic meaning. 

But, look, Punjab has been divided. Kashmir remains divided, and Iran/Turkey/Afghanistan also have no place in Pakistan. However, East Bengal was added to it.


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## integra

Abir said:


> . There was a proposal from WB state govt to GoI to remove the West part and rename our state as Bengal, they should once again take up the issue to GoI.


 
Until you west Bengals( well Indians) ever have the guts to do that pls don't bother to post stupid wannabe stuffs. You guys will always be " Ekdin bangali chilam re" which isn't the case with us. My favourite language is french, does that mean we'll name our place Frenchidesh? Haere......!

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## twoplustwoisfour

ifesvr said:


> I thought the name Pakistan was derived as explained by many from their provinces of *P*unjab, *A*fghan areas, *K*ashmir, *S*indh and Balochis*tan*.


 
No it was not. It was just a stupid rumor spread later on to fulfill their quest for Kashmir.


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## LaBong

integra said:


> Until you west Bengals( well Indians) ever have the guts to do that pls don't bother to post stupid wannabe stuffs. You guys will always be " Ekdin bangali chilam re" which isn't the case with us. My favourite language is french, does that mean we'll name our place Frenchidesh? Haere......!


 
What guts has to do with renaming the state? Most of the Bangladeshis love Urdu, so they should change the state language to Urdu, it's as simple as that.

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## integra

^^^and where did you get that impression? Did you ever come to bangladesh? Do you know theres a term "Bhasha Shoinik"?


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## LaBong

integra said:


> ^^^and where did you get that impression? Did you ever come to bangladesh? Do you know theres a term "Bhasha Shoinik"?


 
That's why I said if we go by this forum, granted the forum is self-selective.


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## IND151

Pakistan did 3 big mistakes
1. they didn't give fair chance to east Pakistanis.
2. they underestimated India thinking it hasn't come out from shock of 1962. *they forgot that Nehru was no longer alive and his ambitious,cunning daughter had come to power.*
3. they didn't provide enough fighter planes to eastern command of Pakistani air force. only 1 squadron of f 86 was deployed in east Pakistan. this ensured indian air Superiority in war.

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## Secret Service

Not to forget RAW who play major role...


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## IND151

secretservice said:


> Not to forget RAW who play major role...


 
i didn't know that raw payed important role in 1971 war.thanks.


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## Md Akmal

eastwatch said:


> Even after partition this Province retained the name East Bengal for many years._* Later, when I do not remember, the name was changed to east Pakistan*_. Before Pakistan Movement started in the sub-continent, Chodhury Rahmat Ali foresee two separate entities in the east and west. He named the east as Bangistan.


 
East Bangal was re-named as East Pakistan in 1956 when the first constitution came into being. At that time AL was in power both in the centre and in the Province.


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## akash57

Abir said:


> I never been to Bangladesh, but if we go by this forum, you guys don't sound Bengali at all. You should name your country Pakistan or Bangistan(as proposed historically). There was a proposal from WB state govt to GoI to remove the West part and rename our state as Bengal, they should once again take up the issue to GoI.
> 
> Yes Urdu/Hindi is easy if you know Bengali, as both were evolved from Prakrit. So Bangladeshis already have an advantage in learning Urdu.



I was expecting someone to say something like this and it happened just like I thought it would. I knew someone would say that we don't sound Bengali. Just because we show any slight support, or even neutrality to anything Pakistani.. that means we are not Bengali or don't sound Bengali.

Also, by all means, please name your state whatever you like. Just don't try and dictate about whether we are Bengali or not based on our choices, both personal and/or official.



Abir said:


> Yes you are indeed right, but who told you Bangladeshis aren't (wannabe) Punjabi, Afghani, Kashmiri, Sindhi and Balochi!


 
Like I already said, mentioning anything that shows Bangladeshis showing anything that is connected to Pakistan automatically makes us less Bengali and "wannabe" Punjabis, Afghanis, Kashmiris, Sindhis and Balochis right? I don't understand why some people think that being Bengali, or Bangladeshi to be exact, means being totally against anything Pakistani in any sense. Not you Abir, but people in general.


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## LaBong

^Relax, I was just having fun. 

However some Bangladesh posters, not you in particular, seems to me are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.


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## Skies

Abir said:


> ^Relax, I was just having fun.
> 
> However some Bangladesh posters, not you in particular, seems to me are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.


 
Still you have nothing to say about us in general, but your very personal opinion. This is my Bangladesh: I will love it, or I will hate it (if I really can), it's my prerogative. But it's true that we find the maximum peace here. And that is the spiritual peace.


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## LaBong

Skies said:


> Still you have nothing to say about us in general, but your very personal opinion. This is my Bangladesh: I will love it, or I will hate it (if I really can), it's my prerogative. But it's true that we find the maximum peace here. And that is the spiritual peace.


 
This is an online forum, people express their personal opinion here, so do I.


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## Al-zakir

akash57 said:


> I was expecting someone to say something like this and it happened just like I thought it would. I knew someone would say that we don't sound Bengali. Just because we show any slight support, or even neutrality to anything Pakistani.. that means we are not Bengali or don't sound Bengali.
> 
> Also, by all means, please name your state whatever you like. Just don't try and dictate about whether we are Bengali or not based on our choices, both personal and/or official.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I already said, mentioning anything that shows Bangladeshis showing anything that is connected to Pakistan automatically makes us less Bengali and "wannabe" Punjabis, Afghanis, Kashmiris, Sindhis and Balochis right? I don't understand why some people think that being Bengali, or Bangladeshi to be exact, means being totally against anything Pakistani in any sense. Not you Abir, but people in general.


 
Bharati in general doesn't think, Bangladeshi should be Islamic minded. They find it odd when we give priority to Islamic values and culture over local Bangla culture. They failed to understand that Islam is universal concept so it's not unnatural that Bangladeshi Muslims would have similarities with Muslim form other part of Islamic world due to common religious and cultural practice.

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## eastwatch

Al-zakir said:


> Bharati in general doesn't think, Bangladeshi should be Islamic minded. They find it odd when we give priority to Islamic values and culture over local Bangla culture.



Would you mind telling us what exactly you mean by Islamic culture and how would you like to differentiate it from what you said Bangla culture?


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## Md Akmal

eastwatch said:


> Would you mind telling us what exactly you mean by Islamic culture and how would you like to differentiate it from what you said Bangla culture?


 
@ Eastwatch. There is gulf of difference between the West Bengal Bengalee culture and our Bangladeshi Bengalee culture. It had been settled through various movement. Let me explain a little bit with my knowlege:

1. We the Bangalee muslim never belief on _*"Mongol Prodip or Mongol Jatra"*_ but this is being followed by West Bengalees. They start each and every work with "Mongol prodip". Now-a-days some of our people are following without realising it. Specially in our country there some cultural organisation like "Udichi", "Joy Bangla Sangscrity Gushti"etc. These cultural organisation always starts the work with "Mongal Prodip". Many a time it had been proved that these organisation are been financed by RAW.

2. It is said that in Hindu religion there is a _*"Baro mashe tero puja*_"(in 12 months there is 13 pujas) so it is related with various "Malas"(Fair) and with various seasons. Since initially we were Bengalee and than we become muslim we have to forgo all these various "Malas" and functions. In our religion we have our own function like two Eids, "Shobebarat", Shabemiraj", "Eid Miladun-nabi" etc. These songs and various hindu related functions were restricted in our religion. Now, you would ask where it is written ?

3. In Muslim Bengalee culture we follow _*"Puther Gun"*_ but in Hindu culture they follow "Kobir Gun". As you know the Persian and Arabic culture was very rich in 15/16 century. At that time we the Bengalee muslims used to follow the Bengalee as a "kuththo Basha" and higher classes people used to read Arabic, Persi, Turkey etc. So, the common people did not had the capability to read and write. So, the Persian and Arabic schoolars invented this "Puthir Gun" and through this "Puthir Gun" the Islamic history and various other events were narrated and soon it became so popular in this Bengal that Hindus were in problem. Soon, the Hindu Schoolars also discover the alternative of this "Puthir Gun" and they invented "Kobir Gun". Although many Hindu schoolar also used this "Puthir Gun" in their religion. It was through this "Puthir Gun" for 3 to 4 centuries the Islam was spread in this area and their tradations were kept intact.

4. We the Muslims of Bengal always say water as "Pani" instead of _*"Jol"*_ just to differentiate.

5. We wear _*"Lungi"*_ instead of "Dhoti". This was the influence of "Wahabi Movement". Since than we also started our name on the line of Muslim.

6. We say meat as _*"Goash"*_ instead of "Mangsho". Some people say we say it since "Mangsho" is "Maer ongsho". If you donnot belief these things I have nothing to say but these are facts of our life.

7. We never give a "Fuller Mala" on a picture of deceased person. 

8. Even giving "Fhool" on the "Bedi" of "Shahid Minor" is also not accepted in Islam. What is this "Shahid Bedi" means. Does not the term has come from Hindu religion. Well we belief on _*"Milad Mahfil".*_

9. The Bengalee true women never gives _*"Tip"*_ on the forehead. That is why you would find that Indian Muslim girls/women and Pakistani girl/women never give "Tip". 

10. We generally follow some Arabic and Persian words in our day to day life very frequently. This is our tradition and we are proud of that. Like _*"Mashallah, Alhamdullah, Inshallah etc".*_

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## LaBong

^Mangso is a Tôdbhôbo(&#2468;&#2470;&#2509;&#2477;&#2476 word, &#2468;&#2510;&#2488;&#2478; tôtshômo cognate of which is Aamish(sanskrit Aamisha).



> 9. The Bengalee true women never gives "Tip" on the forehead. That is why you would find that Indian Muslim girls/women and Pakistani girl/women give "Tip".



Tip is not a Bengali culture but Indo-Iranian culture, Zoroastrians also apply tip.


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## Skies

^
^

Doing Salam by bending head and touching feet is also not any Muslim culture. You forgot to mention that.




Md Akmal said:


> And now we the Bengalees won our independent. Now the question arises, are we really secured now ? ?????
> 
> I remembered in those days people used to get at least good jobs on merit basis. A gurdian could say I want to make my son as doctor, engineer, Armed Force Officer, etc. *Now, see the present situation , everywhere is corruption, our large scale industries are finished. Everywhere is grouping and most important thing is our real sovereignty. Are we real sovereign now ? Can we achieve it ? How *?


 
---I heard to say few people that PK-era was better than now.
---I think we are not 100% s sovereign. The foreign intel can do anything, but our intel knows nothing.
---Yes, still we are very much dependent on India. But there is way, if we can find, I believe.


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## LaBong

> Doing Salam by bending head and touching feet is also not any Muslim culture. You forgot to mention that.



Yes I was once in an embarrassing position after touching feet of my friends mother. Although aunty accepted my respect in sporting manner but some neighbours who were there looked at me in weird way!


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## LaBong

I'm not trying to show the similarities between Bangladeshis and us, but I found some of what Akmal posted are factually wrong. 



> . It is said that in Hindu religion there is a "Baro mashe tero puja"(in 12 months there is 13 pujas) so it is related with various "Malas"(Fair) and with various seasons. Since initially we were Bengalee and than we become muslim we have to forgo all these various "Malas" and functions. In our religion we have our own function like two Eids, "Shobebarat", Shabemiraj", "Eid Miladun-nabi" etc. These songs and various hindu related functions were restricted in our religion. Now, you would ask where it is written ?.



The exact quote is "Baro maase tero Parbon", Parbon means any festival, not a Hindu religious festival. 



> In Muslim Bengalee culture we follow "Puther Gun" but in Hindu culture they follow "Kobir Gun". As you know the Persian and Arabic culture was very rich in 15/16 century. At that time we the Bengalee muslims used to follow the Bengalee as a "kuththo Basha" and higher classes people used to read Arabic, Persi, Turkey etc. So, the common people did not had the capability to read and write. So, the Persian and Arabic schoolars invented this "Puthir Gun" and through this "Puthir Gun" the Islamic history and various other events were narrated and soon it became so popular in this Bengal that Hindus were in problem. Soon, the Hindu Schoolars also discover the alternative of this "Puthir Gun" and they invented "Kobir Gun". Although many Hindu schoolar also used this "Puthir Gun" in their religion. It was through this "Puthir Gun" for 3 to 4 centuries the Islam was spread in this area and their tradations were kept intact.



Heh, since when music has become exclusive to any religion? Persians were learned by both Hindus and Muslims because rulers talked in Persian. 



> We the Muslims of Bengal always say water as "Pani" instead of "Jol" just to differentiate.






> We say meat as "Goash" instead of "Mangsho". Some people say we say it since "Mangsho" is "Maer ongsho". If you donnot belief these things I have nothing to say but these are facts of our life.




No mainly Bangladeshis say that, Muslims here say Jol and Mangso just like Hindus. 



> Even giving "Fhool" on the "Bedi" of "Shahid Minor" is also not accepted in Islam. What is this "Shahid Bedi" means. Does not the term has come from Hindu religion. Well we belief on "Milad Mahfil".



Lol don't you have some Shahid Bedi for those killed in Bhasha andolon?

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## Md Akmal

@ Ok, Abir, I accept some of yours points. But I tell you "Puthir Gun" was made on the inspiration of Persian and Arabic culture. I am not just telling you for argument seek I read in a Bengal history book. You see, who bothers for all these small matters but if you look deeply than it matters a lot. If we follow the Bengalee Culture "tow, tow" than we will become half Hindu. As because most of the Bengalee culture arrived from Hindu religion. We have to differentiate all these values otherwise we all become "Tashlema Nasrin", in the long run which you want, " Meche ai simana" .


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## Al-zakir

Md Akmal said:


> @ Eastwatch. There is gulf of difference between the West Bengal Bengalee culture and our Bangladeshi Bengalee culture. It had been settled through various movement. Let me explain a little bit with my knowlege:
> 
> 1. We the Bangalee muslim never belief on _*"Mongol Prodip or Mongol Jatra"*_ but this is being followed by West Bengalees. They start each and every work with "Mongol prodip". Now-a-days some of our people are following without realising it. Specially in our country there some cultural organisation like "Udichi", "Joy Bangla Sangscrity Gushti"etc. These cultural organisation always starts the work with "Mongal Prodip". Many a time it had been proved that these organisation are been financed by RAW.
> 
> 2. It is said that in Hindu religion there is a _*"Baro mashe tero puja*_"(in 12 months there is 13 pujas) so it is related with various "Malas"(Fair) and with various seasons. Since initially we were Bengalee and than we become muslim we have to forgo all these various "Malas" and functions. In our religion we have our own function like two Eids, "Shobebarat", Shabemiraj", "Eid Miladun-nabi" etc. These songs and various hindu related functions were restricted in our religion. Now, you would ask where it is written ?
> 
> 3. In Muslim Bengalee culture we follow _*"Puther Gun"*_ but in Hindu culture they follow "Kobir Gun". As you know the Persian and Arabic culture was very rich in 15/16 century. At that time we the Bengalee muslims used to follow the Bengalee as a "kuththo Basha" and higher classes people used to read Arabic, Persi, Turkey etc. So, the common people did not had the capability to read and write. So, the Persian and Arabic schoolars invented this "Puthir Gun" and through this "Puthir Gun" the Islamic history and various other events were narrated and soon it became so popular in this Bengal that Hindus were in problem. Soon, the Hindu Schoolars also discover the alternative of this "Puthir Gun" and they invented "Kobir Gun". Although many Hindu schoolar also used this "Puthir Gun" in their religion. It was through this "Puthir Gun" for 3 to 4 centuries the Islam was spread in this area and their tradations were kept intact.
> 
> 4. We the Muslims of Bengal always say water as "Pani" instead of _*"Jol"*_ just to differentiate.
> 
> 5. We wear _*"Lungi"*_ instead of "Dhoti". This was the influence of "Wahabi Movement". Since than we also started our name on the line of Muslim.
> 
> 6. We say meat as _*"Goash"*_ instead of "Mangsho". Some people say we say it since "Mangsho" is "Maer ongsho". If you donnot belief these things I have nothing to say but these are facts of our life.
> 
> 7. We never give a "Fuller Mala" on a picture of deceased person.
> 
> 8. Even giving "Fhool" on the "Bedi" of "Shahid Minor" is also not accepted in Islam. What is this "Shahid Bedi" means. Does not the term has come from Hindu religion. Well we belief on _*"Milad Mahfil".*_
> 
> 9. The Bengalee true women never gives _*"Tip"*_ on the forehead. That is why you would find that Indian Muslim girls/women and Pakistani girl/women never give "Tip".


 
Thank you sir. I couldn't have explain any better. We must draw line some where. They way Awami and it's Islamic name Tagore loving mushriks intellectual importing Hindu culture from west bengal, our Islamic culture will be seize to exist if we do not encounter them with iron fists. 





> 10. We generally follow some Arabic and Persian words in our day to day life very frequently. This is our tradition and we are proud of that. Like _*"Mashallah, Alhamdullah, Inshallah etc".*_



We used say word like *khushamdeed, shabba khair* and so on yet all most no one use these words now a days due to Tagorize our Bangla language by munafiq intellectuals. 

Bismillah, salam and khuda hafiz all most absence from all electronic media and I have notice female news anchor doesn't even wear *hijab *any more during Ramazan since Al Munafiqs came to office. 

Islamic rooted party like BNP failed miserably to encounter them Munafiqs.

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## Al-zakir

eastwatch said:


> Would you mind telling us what exactly you mean by Islamic culture and how would you like to differentiate it from what you said Bangla culture?


 
Sometime I wonder, whether you are true to yourself or a faker pretending to something yet something else all together. 

You have impressive knowledge when it comes to Islam in Bangladesh yet you asking me to differentiate even though you know what I meant. please do not loose your credibility with such a silly question 

Please read Md Akmal post where he explain the difference.

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## desiman

Al-zakir said:


> Why didn't we keep the name East Pakistan since we led the movement and created Pakistan? I am curious.


 
Dude the 1971 movement was against Pakistan so why would they adopt the name East-Pakistan after they attained independence ? If you dont appreciate what your ancestors did for your country then atleast dont insult their memory with your blinded Islamic views.


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## desiman

Al-zakir said:


> Sometime I wonder, whether you are true to yourself or a faker pretending to something yet something else all together.
> 
> You have impressive knowledge when it comes to Islam in Bangladesh yet you asking me to differentiate even though you know what I meant. please do not loose your credibility with such a silly question
> 
> Please read Md Akmal post where he explain the difference.


 

Just because he does not agree with your lob sided views on Bangladesh, it does not mean he is faking his identity which by the way is much more Bangladeshi that yours. The real doubt is on your identity with the way you support Pakistan even in the context of 1971.

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## Al-zakir

desiman said:


> Dude the 1971 movement was against Pakistan so why would they adopt the name East-Pakistan after they attained independence ? If you dont appreciate what your ancestors did for your country then atleast dont insult their memory with your blinded Islamic views.


 
Abbey naam ne kab mara aur naam se kaya panga aur ye Bangadesh kaha se aaya aur ye Bangladesh howa toh kaya farak para? Islam abhi bi zindah hay Bangladesh may, toh Mashriqi Pakistan re jata toh kaya mushkilat ho ta


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## Capt.Popeye

Abir said:


> ^Mangso is a Tôdbhôbo(&#2468;&#2470;&#2509;&#2477;&#2476 word, &#2468;&#2510;&#2488;&#2478; tôtshômo cognate of which is Aamish(sanskrit Aamisha).



Hey guys; what's cooking now? "Mangshor Jhol" or "Kosha Mangsho"?
So will that become "Goasher Jhol"?
"Goash" is actually a aberration, the root word is "Gosht". Is that difficult to say in Bengali?

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## eastwatch

Abir said:


> Yes I was once in an embarrassing position after touching feet of my friends mother. Although aunty accepted my respect in sporting manner but some neighbours who were there looked at me in weird way!


 
Anything good should not be limited to the people of a certain religion group. Respecting elders by touching their feet may be regarded as one such thing. By the way, our Prophet said that paradise is under the feet of your mother. Because the Prophet said of mothers, therefore, shall we limit respecting our mothers only, and not similarly respect our grand mothers, Fupus and Khalas as well?

There are many customs that the Arabs or Persians follow even after 1400 yrs of accepting islam as their religion. One example is the sound of ULU by their women on occasions like sending their men to a battle. Another may be playing DRUMs by their men. Yet another may be group dancings by their teenage boys with sword in hand. 

By the way, the Arabs call their fathers by their first name directly. Like calling them with names likeAhmed, Abbas, Ali etc. Are we not then doing a kind of un-Islamic things in Bengal by not calling our fathers by their first name?

When in one hand we have discarded these ISLAMIC (?) cultures as described above beacause they look either Be-Adabi or Hindu rituals in Bengal. Similarly, we have also accepted a few Hindu local customs that some people think do not go against the basic principle of Islam.

I think, Bengali Muslims are now just Bengali muslims. Although basically they are convets from Hindus, but they have quite an admixture of Arabs, Persians, central asians and Afghans. This also speaks for the mixing of cultures and language as well. 

In my opinion, unless a custom is found to be containing SHIRK there should not be a taboo on our accepting it as local Bangali Muslim custom. If we think in that way with open mind we will find many local customs that we already have been accepted can be continued because these do not cotradict with the basic principle of SHIRK as described in Islam.

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## Md Akmal

@ Islam had been fully established with all its tradations long time before when it came to Indian or our area. Islam has four sources of Law:

_*1. Quran itself,
2. Sunna or Hadish
3. Ijma
4. Qiyes.*_

Does the touching of legs of our guardian (possibly hindu culture) falls under the above rules ??????

@ We should not forget that _*"Islam is a complete code of life and it is a devine origin". *_

@ If great thinker like Eastwatch(seating at Japan) starts adding all the good tradition of other people/religions than it will become _*"Dine-ne-Allahi"*_ of Akbar The Great.

@ We all should vemently oppose all the Hindu Bengalee culture in our society otherwise a time would come when it would be difficult to differentiate with them.

@ A true Muslims never bents his head except "Allah". Touching of another' leg, does it not contradictory to the this. Non of Islamic countries follow this tradition why we should follow ?

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## eastwatch

Gentlemen,

About the language we call Bengali or Bangla. Subeh Bangalah is the name first attributed to this region during the Mughal period, and the language spoken here has been named after this region. It means the name of land came first and the name of language followed the name of the region.

The language did not exist in the present form for many centuries although a man can see some feeble signatures of Bangla in the CHORJAPOD written a few thousand years ago by the Buddhist monks. However, this language could have died out or could have survived in another form had not the outsider muslims came and settled in Bengal. 

A language is not only an amulgumation of TODVOB words. It has many other components. The foreign words brought by the foreign muslims in the northern India developed Urdu. (Note that no well developed language called Hindi was there, but was conceived by the Brahman elites in the Fort william College in Calcutta around 1805s.) And similarly Bangla was also developed with the mixture of similar foreign words with the local spoken language.

There are thousands of Arabic, Persian, and Turkic words in Bengali that are still used by people who are not educated in Bengali. These words are also spoken by all others, Muslim or Hindu, but people are not aware that these are imported words.

Since after Bengali grammar was written by the Hindu Pundits of Fort William College, a tremendous efforts were and have been made to discard these foreign origin Bengali words from the written form of Bengali in the novels, dramas and newspapers. Even today in Bangladesh people of letters are trying to discard these (unholy) words. 

There is a 1000 page book named 'Arbo-persian Influence in Bengali' written by some Shaikh ----- -----. Interested persons may read this book to know how the two foreign languages have jointly influenced Bengali. 

Even the very holy word 'Thakur' is a Turkic word, the meaning being Devta or Dewta. People still say Thakurpuja, without knowing the origin of the word. Turkic people who had settled in Bengal called the idols in the Mandirs as THAKUR or Devta. But, very few people are aware of it.

In my opinion, both the local Hindus, and conveted and foreign Muslims have equally contributed to the development of Bangla, some naturally and some by writing poetries like Punthi Shahityo. It is, therefore, cannot be said it is the language of only Hindus, because the name Bangla itself was derived at the time of the muslim Mughals.


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## eastwatch

Gentlemen,

About the language we call Bengali or Bangla. Subeh Bangalah is the name first attributed to this region during the Mughal period, and the language spoken here has been named after this region. It means the name of land came first and the name of language followed the name of the region.

The language did not exist in the present form for many centuries although a man can see some feeble signatures of Bangla in the CHORJAPOD written a few thousand years ago by the Buddhist monks. However, this language could have died out or could have survived in another form had not the outsider muslims came and settled in Bengal. 

A language is not only an amulgumation of TODVOB words. It has many other components. The foreign words brought by the foreign muslims in the northern India developed Urdu. (Note that no well developed language called Hindi was there, but was conceived by the Brahman elites in the Fort william College in Calcutta around 1805s.) And similarly Bangla was also developed with the mixture of similar foreign words with the local spoken language.

There are thousands of Arabic, Persian, and Turkic words in Bengali that are still used by people who are not educated in Bengali. These words are also spoken by all others, Muslim or Hindu, but people are not aware that these are imported words.

Since after Bengali grammar was written by the Hindu Pundits of Fort William College, a tremendous efforts are always being made to discard these foreign origin Bengali words from the written form of Bengali in the school textbooks, novels, dramas and newspapers. Even in today's Bangladesh people of letters are trying to discard these (unholy) words. 

There is a 1000 page book named 'Arbo-persian Influence in Bengali' written by some Shaikh ----- -----. Interested persons may read this book to know how the two foreign languages have jointly influenced Bengali. 

Even the very holy word 'Thakur' is a Turkic word, the meaning being Devta/Dewta. People still say Thakurpuja, without knowing the origin of the word. Turkic people who had settled in Bengal called the idols in the Mandirs as THAKUR meaning Devta in their language. But, very few people are aware of it.

In my opinion, both the local Hindus, and conveted and foreign Muslims have equally contributed to the initial development of Bangla, some naturally and some by writing poetries like Punthi Shahityo. It is, therefore, cannot be said it is the language of only Hindus, because the name Bangla itself was derived at the time of the muslim Mughals.

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## Md Akmal

Md Akmal said:


> East Bangal was re-named as East Pakistan in 1956 when the first constitution came into being. At that time AL was in power both in the centre and in the Province.



_*Correction*_

@ The East Bengal was re-named as East Pakistan by Iskandar Mirza, the President of Pakistan in 1957 when the Republican Party was in power after the fall of AL(Suhrwardy) and the Prime Minister was Mohammad Ali of Bogra. Sorry for the mistake.


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## 53fd

lonelyone said:


> Bangladesh has not prospered. After independence, Sheikh Mujib with his socialist policies totally destroyed the country from top to bottom. All industries, universities, etc. were destroyed due to his and his party's mismanagement and corruption. Of course, after his rapist nephew raped some wife of a army officer Sheikh Mujib, his rapist nephew and all his family was killed in a coup by that officer.
> 
> Of course on the positive side we don't have suicide bombs exploding every day, and on that front we're better than Pakistan. But we now import machines from Pakistan, which we used to make ourselves when we were East Pakistan. sad situation.


 
Once the WOT is over, there will be no suicide bombings in Pakistan. There were no suicide bombings in Pakistan pre-9/11.

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## jee99pk

The 1971 crises holder

Pak Army
Panjabi Only

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## Al-zakir

*Book, film greeted with fury among Bengalis
*A new book and film recently released downplaying Pakistani atrocities in Bangladesh have caused outrage among Bengalis.






_
A recent film and book has caused outrage among Bengalis, due to their downplaying of atrocities committed by the Pakistani military during East Pakistan's struggle for independence in 1971 [GALLO/GETTY]_

Two Bengali women  one from India, the other from Bangladesh  are now embroiled in a fierce controversy across the two countries for writing a book and producing a film that has upset Bengali nationalists and Indian officials, but given some cause of relief to the Pakistani military.

Dead Reckoning, written by Indian researcher Sarmila Bose, questions the historical narratives of the 1971 civil war that broke up Pakistan, but Bengali nationalist groups describe her as "an apologist for Pakistan's brutal military".

Meherjaan, directed by Bangladeshi film-maker Rubaiyat Hossain, is about the love of a Bengali woman for a Pakistani Baloch soldier in the backdrop of the 1971 war  but feminist groups in Bangladesh allege that the film "distorts the historical context of the liberation war". 

Challenging narratives

Both the book and the film have hit the market at a time when Bangladesh's Awami League-led government has set up special tribunals for trying the "war criminals" of 1971.

The Awami League led Bangladesh's struggle for secession from Pakistan after the Pakistani military regime refused to hand over power to it even after it won a majority in Pakistan national assembly elections in 1970.

Shamsul Arefin, a war crimes trial official, told this writer that though Bengalis who collaborated with the Pakistan army are the ones to be actually tried, names of Pakistani soldiers and officers are likely to crop up with regard to massacres, mass rapes and arson during the trial.

"That will expose the real character of the Pakistani army which is now seen in the West as a key ally in the war against terror. So Pakistan's intelligence is desperate to scuttle the war crimes trials in Bangladesh," says Arefin, who served in the Pakistan army, then joined the Bengali Mukti Fauj (Freedom Force) during the civil war and finally served in the Bangladesh army.

"We have reasons to believe that there is a concerted campaign by Pakistani intelligence to disrupt and dilute our War Crimes Trial. I will not be surprised if they are commissioning projects to distort the realities of our liberation war," Arefin told this writer.

That's a rather strong charge but Sarmila Bose promptly dismisses.

"I am only trying to question the existing narratives of the 1971 war in view of data I have gathered while working for the book," Sarmila Bose told the audience at the Woodrow Wilson Centre in US, where the book was launched.

The entire book launch programme is available on the Internet.

Suspect data

Bose, a Bengali herself, is a grand daughter of India's independence war hero Subhas Chandra Bose, and is a senior research fellow at Oxford.

Her brothers, Sugato and Sumantra Bose, teach history and politics at Harvard and London School of Economics.

"I am only pointing to obvious exaggerations about the number of people killed or number of women raped by the Pakistan army. A war narrative is always the narrative of the victors, and 1971 was no different," Sarmila Bose said at the launch.

But some of her data is clearly suspect.

Dead Reckoning suggests there were only 20,000 Pakistani troops at the beginning of the civil war in East Pakistan, and that rose to 34,000 towards the end of the war.

"Bangladeshi narratives claim 400,000 women were raped by Pakistani troops during the civil war between March and December 1971, but how can 34,000 soldiers rape so many women in eight months," contends Sarmila Bose.

Indian historian Jayanta Ray, whose 1968 book Nationalism on Trial predicted the breakup of Pakistan, is furious at how an Oxford researcher like Bose could get basic facts wrong.

"Records indicate that just over 93,000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered to the Indian army in December 1971. They were all handed back to Pakistan. That's thrice the number Bose suggests, so is she fudging figures deliberately to prove that the number of rapes were much lower than suggested?" Professor Ray told this writer.

Bangladesh's anti-fundamentalist campaigner Shahriyar Kabir says that Red Cross officials in 1971 testified to treating nearly 200,000 rape victims.

"Many more women did not report for treatment out of shame and embarrassment," Kabir told this writer. "They bore their indignities silently."

A Calcutta-based Bengali channel, Mahua TV, ran a full hour discussion on the book, bringing together Bengalis from India and Bangladesh last Sunday.

Hundreds of listeners from both sides of the border called in to join the author-bashing.

The channel's executive editor, Subir Chakroborty, says Sarmila Bose's mother, Krishna Bose, a former member of Indian parliament, refused to join the panel.

"She told us her views on the liberation war were already known to everybody, so we put up in front of our cameras her newspaper article on the Bangladesh war. That was very sympathetic to the victims of 1971," Chakroborty said.

Allegations of bias

While Bangladeshis and Indian Bengalis are upset with Bose for "playing down the Pakistani atrocities", Indian officials are angry with her contention that "India was the only aggressor in 1971".

"We intervened militarily only after all possibilities of stopping the bloodbath failed. And when our forces entered East Pakistan, the Bengalis complained why we have been so late," says former chief of India's eastern fleet, Vice-Admiral Bimalendu Guha.

"How can she call us an aggressor," fumes Guha. "The Bengalis actually wanted us to intervene earlier to save themselves."

Former chief-of-staff of India's eastern army, Lieutenant General J.R. Mukherjee, goes a step further, who said:

She has very good reasons to defend the honour of the Pakistan army, which she describes as a professional and a brave force. Can I ask her why these brave soldiers surrendered to India in such a huge number? Even now, Pakistani troops keep surrendering to Taliban and other militants. Can you show one Indian soldier who has ever surrendered to a militant?

Professor Ray alleges that Bose is biased in use of sources.

"Her sources are primarily Pakistani. She has interviewed many Pakistani officers, but not those who were fighting them," says Professor Ray.

Particularly upset with Sarmila Bose are Bangladesh's vast numbers of "freedom fighters"  men from various walks of life who joined the "Mukti Fauj" to fight the Pakistanis in 1971.

"How can a Bengali, and that too from the family of one of our greatest leader like Subhas Bose, write such a horrible account that tries to defend Pakistan's brutal army. This is simply unacceptable," said Haroon Habib, a "freedom fighter" who later rose to head the country's government-sponsored news agency, Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha (BSS).

No bookseller has so far put Dead Reckoning on their shelves in Bangladesh.

Even in Calcutta and other Bengali-dominated cities in India, the book is not to be seen.

"Bengalis across the border will only have hate for her," says Bimal Pramanik, a "freedom fighter" who now lives in India and runs a centre for research on India-Bangladesh relations. "She is untruthful and with a purpose."

Sarmila Bose denies all charges flung at her and says she has only "tried to correct the course of contemporary history". A claim few will endorse in Bangladesh or Indian Bengal.

Stereotypes versus truth

Rubaiyat Hossain's Meherjaan is innocuous by comparison, but it has generated as much angst in a country which prides its Bengali heritage and where the atrocities of the Pakistan army is still recent memory.

Bangladesh's official history says nearly three million Bengalis  Hindus, Muslims and Christians  died in the 1971 civil war, and nearly half a million women were raped.

"I liked the movie, but since I am a freedom fighter and scores of my friends disliked the film, I decided to withdraw it from cinema halls in Bangladesh," says Habibur Rehman Khan, the distributor of Meherjaan.

That means the film will make no money, despite a a cast of stars from India, like Jaya Bachan and Victor Banerji  both Bengalis, but big in Bollywood.

Bangladeshi feminist groups say the film trivialises the atrocities on women by the Pakistani army when it runs the story of Meher, a Bengali girl who falls in love with a Pakistani soldier, and is then humiliated by her family when this is discovered.

"I was raped several times by Pakistani soldiers, and I cannot stand this soft corner for Pakistanis in the film," said sculptor Ferdous Priyabashini.

Rubaiyat Hossain is candid about her woes.

"I tried to break out of the stereotype of the Bengali hero versus Pakistani brute in the backdrop of the 1971 war, and that is what my countrymen are so upset with," she said.

"What she thinks is stereotype is actually the truth. The Pakistanis killed us like flies and raped our women like beasts. They even massacred our intellectuals just before they surrendered," said Awami League's minister Jehangir Kabir Nanak.

Unlike Japan or Germany apologising for their military excesses during the Second World War, Pakistan has not apologised for the atrocities of its army in 1971.

Many liberal Pakistanis, including cricket hero Imran Khan, want Islamabad to do so and bury the bad blood of 1971.

But the Pakistan army top brass refuses to oblige.

Until that happens, neither Dead Reckoning nor Meherjaan will find admirers in Bangladesh  or in Indian Bengal.

Book, film greeted with fury among Bengalis - Features - Al Jazeera English

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## Al-zakir

^^^
If her finding is right then it should be accepted as part of History otherwise she should be changed with fact and figure. No need to get mad at her just because it goes against the interest of AL and the India. 

It more than impossible for 40 K solders to killed 3 millions in nine month unless they were empowered by some higher forces from above yet this bogus number has been circulating from the books to the mouth of politicians.

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## BanglaBhoot

Al-zakir said:


> ^^^
> If her finding is right then it should be accepted as part of History otherwise she should be changed with fact and figure. No need to get mad at her just because it goes against the interest of AL and the India.
> 
> It more than impossible for 40 K solders to killed 3 millions in nine month unless they were empowered by some higher forces from above yet this bogus number has been circulating from the books to the mouth of politicians.


 
The bogus figure was of course put out by Sk. Mujib who could not tell the difference between 30 lakhs and 3 lakhs.

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## toxic_pus

Al-zakir said:


> It more than impossible for 40 K solders to killed 3 millions in nine month unless they were empowered by some higher forces from above yet this bogus number has been circulating from the books to the mouth of politicians.


Since you mentioned that figure, lets do some maths.

40,000 soldiers (average deployment throughout 9 months, minimum being around 25,000 and maximum being around 55,000), '3,000,000' deaths, 9 months+ i.e. around 300 days.

That means, each soldier killed 75 people in 300 days.

That means, each soldier killed just 1 person in every 4th day, for 300 days. It doesn't seem like as something that would require the perpetrators to be 'empowered by some higher forces from above' to pull off. 

Remember, between April and June in 1994, in a span of less than 100 days, about 800,000 Tutsis (minorities) were murdered by the Hutus (majorities) in Rwanda.

DISCLAIMER: This is not my claim that '3 million' Bengalis were killed during those 9 months.

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## Manas

> She has very good reasons to defend the honour of the Pakistan army, which she describes as a professional and a brave force. Can I ask her why these brave soldiers surrendered to India in such a huge number? E*ven now, Pakistani troops keep surrendering to Taliban and other militants. Can you show one Indian soldier who has ever surrendered to a militant*?



Thats hold lot of water.

Not just India Army , but even CRPF or BSF men never surrendered to militant or Maoist fighter.

73 CRPF men died when they the ambushed by the maoist last year,and none got captured after surrendering.


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## Manas

*Sarmila Bose's theory is mere book selling tactics,a lot of writers practice these days . They must write something different than the standard narrative and controversial enough to create popular hype for book .*


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## Zabaniyah

MBI Munshi said:


> The bogus figure was of course put out by Sk. Mujib who could not tell the difference between 30 lakhs and 3 lakhs.



^ 
True. 

Actually, it is unknown exactly how many civilians were killed. Politicians in Bangladesh tend to manipulate such figures.

There is a joke that he confusingly said 30 lakhs instead of 3 lakhs. lol.


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## integra

unfortunately it doesn't sound so funny to me. Even if its 3lacs or 30 lacs but yeah the figures might have been overestimated as with the aftermath of every historical event. 
Remember the million man march in Egypt, it has been scientifically proven (even with simulations) that the numbers couldn't have been more than 2lacs. That doesn't change anything though.

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## BanglaBhoot

Of those that were killed how many were killed by the Pakistan Army, how many by the Indian Army, Mukti Bahini, Mujib Bahini and how many by the Al-Badr and Al-Shams. Why are we assuming all deaths were caused only by the Pakistan Army? That doesn't make any sense in a war. My reserach suggests many were killed by the Indian Army and many massacred by the Mukti and Mujib Bahini. Many deaths were certainly caused by Bengali on Bengali violence and not all were caused by the Al-Badr and Al-Shams. In some ways Sharmila Bose is partly right but she exaggerates the numbers.


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## roadrunner

You're level-headed on this matter Munshi. What numbers is she exagerrating? 

I didn't think she gave any numbers out, just questioned the figures and that they were all committed by PA when the evidence shows this was not the case.


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## mjnaushad

No offence to BD members but the whole Genocide stuff is used as Political tool... And when the war was on they used this false propaganda to hire recruit nothing more..


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## Al-zakir

toxic_pus said:


> Since you mentioned that figure, lets do some maths.
> 
> 40,000 soldiers (average deployment throughout 9 months, minimum being around 25,000 and maximum being around 55,000), '3,000,000' deaths, 9 months+ i.e. around 300 days.
> 
> That means, each soldier killed 75 people in 300 days.
> 
> That means, each soldier killed just 1 person in every 4th day, for 300 days. It doesn't seem like as something that would require the perpetrators to be 'empowered by some higher forces from above' to pull off.
> 
> Remember, between April and June in 1994, in a span of less than 100 days, about 800,000 Tutsis (minorities) were murdered by the Hutus (majorities) in Rwanda.
> 
> DISCLAIMER: This is not my claim that '3 million' Bengalis were killed during those 9 months.


 
I guess Benglai were sucking of fingers while Pak army was killing them like ducks. What a BS analysis but then again it is coming from a Bharati. I guess Pak army was made of fire since they didn't take any break from killing. If that BS number was true then all most every family would have loss one person which is far from the truth. 


After 71, then Awami government initiated a survey to found out the exact number of death however it was abandon since Musjib and Bhartis fabricated number would be jeopardized. Awami has been using this made up number as political tool to fool people for last 40 years but truth is finally coming out. 

There is no doubt that innocent people were dead however on of the main reason of that death was that one Bengali tribe used Pak army to demised another tribe. A truth still exist today in modern Bangladesh. 

*MBI Munshi's analysis should be noted. *


MBI Munshi said:


> Of those that were killed how many were killed by the Pakistan Army, how many by the Indian Army, Mukti Bahini, Mujib Bahini and how many by the Al-Badr and Al-Shams. Why are we assuming all deaths were caused only by the Pakistan Army? That doesn't make any sense in a war. My reserach suggests many were killed by the Indian Army and many massacred by the Mukti and Mujib Bahini. Many deaths were certainly caused by Bengali on Bengali violence and not all were caused by the Al-Badr and Al-Shams. In some ways Sharmila Bose is partly right but she exaggerates the numbers.

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## Tiki Tam Tam

Al Zakira,

There was no Genocide, right?

Just a figment of imagination.

Liberation too is but a mirage.

It is just a dose of opium!

The international media was also bought, right? Including the US media that was sending its 7th Fleet steaming post haste?

Do give us the facts then.

Take the help of the researcher, Munshi.

Bengalis are too imaginative.

We require the sane Razaakars to tell it as it was>

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## Al-zakir

integra said:


> unfortunately it doesn't sound so funny to me. Even if its 3lacs or 30 lacs but yeah the figures might have been overestimated as with the aftermath of every historical event.
> Remember the million man march in Egypt, it has been scientifically proven (even with simulations) that the numbers couldn't have been more than 2lacs. That doesn't change anything though.


 

I concur however we also have to keep this fact handy that a good number of West Pakistani(not Bihari) got killed in the hand of Mujib Mukti Bahini. 

Another fact to remember here is that there were no East Pakistani died in west Pakistan after the separation when fact tells us that they could have slaughter every signal of them. Hence, lets not consider ourself all made up of candle. Shall we? 

At the end, both side committed gruesome unjust against each other while enemy enjoyed every bit of it. We supposed to be brothers in Islam. 

Also notice how Bharati taking our side when ever we talking about 71 whereas.....well, you know the rest.

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## Zabaniyah

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> Al Zakira,
> 
> There was no Genocide, right?
> 
> Just a figment of imagination.
> 
> Liberation too is but a mirage.
> 
> It is just a dose of opium!
> 
> The international media was also bought, right? Including the US media that was sending its 7th Fleet steaming post haste?
> 
> Do give us the facts then.
> 
> Take the help of the researcher, Munshi.
> 
> Bengalis are too imaginative.
> 
> We require the sane Razaakars to tell it as it was>


 
Many "informed" people in Bangladesh (me included) are questioning the "official" figures of the number of casualties in the 1971 war. And who killed who. The Mukhti Bahini along with the early Bangladesh government was highly disorganized (and still is). 

Some AL men back then even went as far as saying India carried out the genocide. 

Of-course, the Pakistanis did screw up the entire operation following a flawed strategy. That Yaha Khan was an arrogant man, I don't even know why Bhutto even listened to that drunkard. 

The AL under Mujib never had a great human rights record to begin with. And still doesn't. 

Whenever the AL comes to power, there is always:
1. Increased crime.
2. Stock market crashes and scandals. 
3. Increased problems with energy and water.
4. Increased human right violations (I can give you examples if you want).
5. An environment of anarchy.

The difference between the AL and the BNP is that the AL is more..."gangsta" type, whereas the BNP is more of a....business corrupt type. 

What is clear to many informed Bangladeshis right now is that facts of history are manipulated by the country's politicians for their own personal gains today. I don't think we will ever know the true facts, events and numbers. 

Best to move on.

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## BanglaBhoot

My father was a doctor at the time of the war and he said that he had to travel dozens of miles to find any casualties of the fighting. If 3 million died or even 300000 how come there are so few causalities seen at the time? I have heard another figure of 30000 dead. That is probably nearer the truth with some thousands also killed by the Indian Army, Mukti and Mujib Bahini.


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## eastwatch

MBI Munshi said:


> My father was a doctor at the time of the war and he said that he had to travel dozens of miles to find any casualties of the fighting. If 3 million died or even 300000 how come there are so few causalities seen at the time? I have heard another figure of 30000 dead. That is probably nearer the truth with some thousands also killed by the Indian Army, Mukti and Mujib Bahini.


 
No one of '70s generation believes in Mujib's fairy tale of 3 million dead. But, AL propaganda machine is always working to make the newer generation believe in that figure. Number of killed is not the issue. Issue is why Yahya Khan had to resort to a policy that forced us to take up guns as well. The crackdown on March 26 forced people to say Pakistan Murdabad.

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## eastwatch

Zabanya said:


> ^
> True.
> 
> Actually, it is unknown exactly how many civilians were killed. Politicians in Bangladesh tend to manipulate such figures.
> 
> There is a joke that he confusingly said 30 lakhs instead of 3 lakhs. lol.


 
It is not really a joke. Mujib was told to say about 3 lakhs killed when he arrived in London from a Pakistani prison. But, by a slip of the tongue he said 3 million. In those days even people with education were confused about this MILLION. Even 300,000 figure is also too high. BD govt should check all the villages and Mahallas to count the figure. But, AL does not want to do so because it wants to play with 3 million. BNP and other parties do not or cannot because it will bring about a dirty criticism from the AL people. So, this is how this inflated figure of 3 million could not be revised.


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## eastwatch

toxic_pus said:


> Since you mentioned that figure, lets do some maths.
> 
> 40,000 soldiers (average deployment throughout 9 months, minimum being around 25,000 and maximum being around 55,000), '3,000,000' deaths, 9 months+ i.e. around 300 days.
> 
> That means, each soldier killed 75 people in 300 days.
> 
> That means, each soldier killed just 1 person in every 4th day, for 300 days. It doesn't seem like as something that would require the perpetrators to be 'empowered by some higher forces from above' to pull off.
> 
> Remember, between April and June in 1994, in a span of less than 100 days, about 800,000 Tutsis (minorities) were murdered by the Hutus (majorities) in Rwanda.
> 
> DISCLAIMER: This is not my claim that '3 million' Bengalis were killed during those 9 months.


 
But, why the Indians are so eager to establish a figure that was not even circulated by the the biased propaganda machine of India when the war was going on? Truth must prevail. BD is a reality and it cannot be undone only because the death figures vary. 

In any war, more than three people are injured when one man dies. By the 3 million figure BD should have 9 million wounded people without a hand, a leg, an eye or any other limb. We do not find any and it was not to be found after 1971. In contrast, go to Vietnam. You will still find millions of those people, and millions of skulls of the deads. Just do not make all these Indian crap any more. 

Are you a kindergaten child doing all those maths? Can you answer if one bullet fire kills one bird, then how many birds will be killed by 3 million bullet fires? We are fed up with the low calibre Indians. Just get lost to oblivion along with your blood-sucking country.

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## eastwatch

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> Al Zakira,
> 
> There was no Genocide, right?
> 
> Just a figment of imagination.
> 
> Liberation too is but a mirage.
> 
> It is just a dose of opium!
> 
> The international media was also bought, right? Including the US media that was sending its 7th Fleet steaming post haste?
> 
> Do give us the facts then.
> 
> Take the help of the researcher, Munshi.
> 
> Bengalis are too imaginative.
> 
> We require the sane Razaakars to tell it as it was>


 
Do not call razakar any one when he is telling the truth. A man does not have to agree to Indian accounts every time. Indian design is to keep the distance between Bd and Pakistan. But, we will not let that happen the way you want. There were vast number of killings, but it was never 1 or 3 million. It was much much less than 1 lakh. Nevertheless, it was a big killing. You have no right to call our citizen razakar. Razakars are those who are the lackyes of India.

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## toxic_pus

eastwatch said:


> But, why the Indians are so eager to establish a figure that was not even circulated by the the biased propaganda machine of India when the war was going on? Truth must prevail. BD is a reality and it cannot be undone only because the death figures vary.


Obviously you don't understand what 'disclaimer' means. If you did, then you would have realized that my intention was not to establish any figure. I was merely providing a counter to the proposition that such high casualty figure is impossible to achieve by PA during 9+ months of mayhem. The Hutus of Rwanda were able to achieve such feat with a fraction of the resources available to PA during 1971.



> In any war, more than three people are injured when one man dies. By the 3 million figure BD should have 9 million wounded people without a hand, a leg, an eye or any other limb. We do not find any and it was not to be found after 1971. In contrast, go to Vietnam. You will still find millions of those people, and millions of skulls of the deads. Just do not make all these Indian crap any more.


Except that those deaths, whatever the number may be, occurred due to a concerted act of genocide and not as collateral in a war. Hence no one-eyed man or one-legged man. There are only dead men (and women) and a handful of lucky survivors. If you so desire I can provide eyewitness account of one PA operated extermination camp. You game?

Btw, I would love to see a reference to that fantastic ratio.



> Are you a kindergaten child doing all those maths? Can you answer if one bullet fire kills one bird, then how many birds will be killed by 3 million bullet fires? We are fed up with the low calibre Indians. Just get lost to oblivion along with your blood-sucking country.


You do realize that the Rwandan genocide, which is a well recorded and well investigated event, had a similar death rate per day as East Pakistan of 1971. That rate was achieved by a rag tag militia as opposed to an organized military of Pakistan.


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## Al-zakir

eastwatch said:


> Do not call razakar any one when he is telling the truth. A man does not have to agree to Indian accounts every time. Indian design is to keep the distance between Bd and Pakistan. But, we will not let that happen the way you want. There were vast number of killings, but it was never 1 or 3 million. It was much much less than 1 lakh. Nevertheless, it was a big killing. You have no right to call our citizen razakar. Razakars are those who are the lackyes of India.


 
I have concluded that Bharatis are shameless creature. They have neither self respect nor knows how to respect other with different view. They also immune to accept the truth that goes against their interest. As a result I have try to ignore them low life. Hell with them cockroaches.


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## toxic_pus

^^ Irony, thy name is Al Zakir.

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## eastwatch

toxic_pus said:


> You do realize that the Rwandan genocide, which is a well recorded and well investigated event, had a similar death rate per day as East Pakistan of 1971. That rate was achieved by a rag tag militia as opposed to an organized military of Pakistan.


 
Why are you making a parallel of Rwandan civil war with BD independence war? The situation is completely different from each other. Two groups of Rwandan people live in the same areas or in the same villages. There it was a direct civil war whereby each group killed the other directly. In case of Bd, it was different. 

The army persecuted mostly the known sympathizers of AL and was shown ways by the razakars. So, it was basically a killing of targets and not of masses. Mass killings were done on the night of 26 march in Dhaka and then, by a mistake, in Jinjira a few days later. Please do not confuse truth with fiction or wartime propaganda of India's mass media in 1971.

Also, note that every war is unique and different. The facts should be sought out from the true information only from the actual sufferers. No parallel can be made of any two wars. However, I must admit there were murders and rapes and other atrocities. But, the scale was certainly not that big as it can be seen in the Indian mass media reportings of those days. 

The reportings, certainly, brought about a positive response from the world community in favour of Bangali independence from Pakistan.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

eastwatch said:


> Do not call razakar any one when he is telling the truth. A man does not have to agree to Indian accounts every time. Indian design is to keep the distance between Bd and Pakistan. But, we will not let that happen the way you want. There were vast number of killings, but it was never 1 or 3 million. It was much much less than 1 lakh. Nevertheless, it was a big killing. You have no right to call our citizen razakar. Razakars are those who are the lackyes of India.



No, Razaakar always tell the truth.

Don't go by Indian accounts. Fair enough.

Go by US account and US was hardly friends of India except that they wanted to show their formidable 7th Fleet to the people in India on a friendly goodwill mission.

Personally, with all the new facts coming out from Bangladesh, there was no genocide at all. 

And if the posts are correct, then all the killings (if there was any) was done by the Indian Army!



> That is probably nearer the truth with some thousands also killed by the Indian Army, Mukti and Mujib Bahini.



And guess what when we were going into East Pakistan, I did not see a single Pakistani Army chap at all. 

And as per EastWest, the Razakaar were all 'lackyes' (whatever that means) of India.

Even Justice Hamdoor Rehman was talking through his hat I presume.

Thanks for the new history.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Just note the lies coming out of Bangaldesh

Bangladesh Genocide Archive

Bangladesh Genocide Archive » Newspaper reports

Bangladesh Genocide Archive » Press quotes

Imagine what lies!!


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## BanglaBhoot

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> Just note the lies coming out of Bangaldesh
> 
> Bangladesh Genocide Archive
> 
> Bangladesh Genocide Archive » Newspaper reports
> 
> Bangladesh Genocide Archive » Press quotes
> 
> Imagine what lies!!


 
Bangladesh needs to seriously revise its history which is presently tainted by Indian propaganda and disinformation. Unfortunately there is hardly and new or original research on the 1971 war. All the academics and scholars are merely repeating what has been given to them from before.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Munshi,

We know where you come from.

Do be good enough to refute the links and not go on a merry go round.

That would be a better way to change history than mere waffling with generalities which are nothing but hot air pontifications denuded of facts, accepted or given!

The links are not Indian and nor are the press reports or videos or pictures solely that of India!!

And to imagine that Mrs Gandhi, who was detested by the US President and his NSA, could buy up the international media, who while in Bangladesh was reporting total falsehood.

Mrs G was great, but I think you give her the halo of a Prophet.

I am all for the truth to prevail.

So, let us know where all the stuff that Bangladesh is giving in those links are figments of a heated and fertile mind.

You claim fame as an academic and so take it on!

You claim your father was a doctor and he saw nothing and I say having seen, I saw much!

And EastWest claims everything is a falsehood and Pakistani were not even there (inference!)!

East Bengal became Bangladesh Harry Potter style and the East Pakistanis did nothing because nothing happened!!

Am I to understand Bangladesh, populated with claimed pious and fervent Muslims, ruined the Two Nation Theory of Jinnah and Surahwardy, just because they got up from the wrong side of the bed?

I am aware that Bengalis tend to be quixotic, but this takes the cake!!

Actually since people like you and some others regret that Bangladesh is a total failure and that fools created this mirage called Bangladesh, why not get back to the good old days?

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## LaBong

Why do people bother with e-Bangladeshis! They are pretty weird species!


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Abir said:


> Why do people bother with e-Bangladeshis! They are pretty weird species!



Not really.

They are so truthful and so imaginative.

A fascinating breed!

One learns so much from them!

They are a gift to mankind is what I feel.

They disown anything that does not suit them!

A great quality indeed!


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## Tiki Tam Tam

There are people here who left Bangladesh for the UK when they were one and they are experts now!!

Bangladesh was not good enough for them.

Now that Bangaldesh is doing well, they want to join in and pretend their eternal and undying love for Bangladesh.

And their hate for India is well documented.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> There are people here who left Bangladesh for the UK when they were one and they are experts now!!
> 
> Bangladesh was not good enough for them.
> 
> Now that Bangaldesh is doing well, they want to join in and pretend their eternal and undying love for Bangladesh.
> 
> And their hate for India is well documented.


 
Wat makes u an expert on bangladeshi affairs and who r u guys to judge bangladeshi members be they sitting in UK,USA or Uganda?

Its funny to dee u guyd showing so much concern abt bangladesh.

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## Tiki Tam Tam

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Wat makes u an expert on bangladeshi affairs and who r u guys to judge bangladeshi members be they sitting in UK,USA or Uganda?
> 
> Its funny to dee u guyd showing so much concern abt bangladesh.



Guess?

You have three guesses!

Hint: I have seen it and you have not!

I have seen it as a child and as a adult too!


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## BanglaBhoot

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> There are people here who left Bangladesh for the UK when they were one and they are experts now!!
> 
> Bangladesh was not good enough for them.
> 
> Now that Bangaldesh is doing well, they want to join in and pretend their eternal and undying love for Bangladesh.
> 
> And their hate for India is well documented.


 
A veiled reference about me. There are many Indians leaving India for a better education in the USA and Europe so I guess they are all traitors and have no love for India. According to your logic they can never be experts on India and their opinion is worthless. That India is now doing well these foreign educated Indians want a piece of the pie and are therefore unpatriotic. Their hate for everything non-Indian is well documented.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

MBI Munshi said:


> A veiled reference about me. There are many Indians leaving India for a better education in the USA and Europe so I guess they are all traitors and have no love for India. According to your logic they can never be experts on India and their opinion is worthless. That India is now doing well these foreign educated Indians want a piece of the pie and are therefore unpatriotic. Their hate for everything non-Indian is well documented.



Out of sheer respect of keeping the forum beyond personalities I did not mention the name.

I also do not want to delve into it since one would not wish to intrude on the privacy.

Of course, anyone can be an expert. He just has to establish a credible audience and thereafter, he is speaking the Gospel!

It in no way would mean one is patriotic or unpatriotic.

It would only be indicative of this line of thought and to which side of the spectrum he sees.

There are enough of experts on the issue of the Moon, but I presume, Neil Armstrong, who may not have a brain exploding scientific background, but would he not know a wee bit more of the reality of what is it on the Moon than the theoretical brain oozing scientist and would he not be able to correlate theory with the practical experience better than one who has not set foot on the Moon?

For instance, I did not believe that an Awami Leaguer was crass enough to celebrate his 100th rape! A poster who is in Bangaldesh produced undiluted evidence. He has experienced the outrage of this crass event and he reads Bangaldeshi news more than I. Therefore, my opinion of what is going on is changed and I shudder in horror as to what is going on!

As far as the post you are referring to what is pertinent is not the emigration, but the timing.

But then, there could be many other good reasons too to emigrate than the one I am seeing!


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## TopCat

Al-zakir said:


> I concur however we also have to keep this fact handy that a good number of West Pakistani(not Bihari) got killed in the hand of Mujib Mukti Bahini.
> 
> Another fact to remember here is that there were no East Pakistani died in west Pakistan after the separation when fact tells us that they could have slaughter every signal of them. Hence, lets not consider ourself all made up of candle. Shall we?
> 
> At the end, both side committed gruesome unjust against each other while enemy enjoyed every bit of it. We supposed to be brothers in Islam.
> 
> Also notice how Bharati taking our side when ever we talking about 71 whereas.....well, you know the rest.


 
You have to see it in different angle. Not a single attack was carried out in West Pakistan by Mukti Bahini. But West Pakistanis killed and million in East Pakistan by themselves and by their proxy Rajakars and Biharis. The retribution was natural and just.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

iajdani said:


> You have to see it in different angle. Not a single attack was carried out in West Pakistan by Mukti Bahini. But West Pakistanis killed and million in East Pakistan by themselves and by their proxy Rajakars and Biharis. The retribution was natural and just.


 
So the west Pakistanis just came in and started killing east Pakistanis for fun?....... and millions?

Also wasnt it the eastern guys who butchered over 1 million west Pakistanis in east Pakistan?

Read books by indians how they created mukti bhani.

Abt language dispute.... tht was just a result of an indian proxy n the power hungry east wing politicians........ Urdu is our national language but the mother tongue of just 8% Pakistanis........ Yet we dnt see such problems in Pakistan.


No army kills its ppl for fun.


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## Zabaniyah

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> So the west Pakistanis just came in and started killing east Pakistanis for fun?....... and millions?
> 
> Also wasnt it the eastern guys who butchered over 1 million west Pakistanis in east Pakistan?
> 
> Read books by indians how they created mukti bhani.
> 
> Abt language dispute.... tht was just a result of an indian proxy n the power hungry east wing politicians........ Urdu is our national language but the mother tongue of just 8% Pakistanis........ Yet we dnt see such problems in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> No army kills its ppl for fun.


 
Back in the days of Pakistan, very few Bengalis actually spoke Urdu. That is why there was a language dispute. 

I don't know exactly how many people were killed by the West Pakistani army, but something bad happened for sure.


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## Shinigami

@ all BD members

dont tango with Tiki Tam Tam. chinese members tried it and he made them cry. he became more chinese than the chinese themselves.

just a warning...


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## Zabaniyah

MBI Munshi said:


> A veiled reference about me. There are many Indians leaving India for a better education in the USA and Europe so I guess they are all traitors and have no love for India. According to your logic they can never be experts on India and their opinion is worthless. That India is now doing well these foreign educated Indians want a piece of the pie and are therefore unpatriotic. Their hate for everything non-Indian is well documented.


 
I don't know where you get your sources from brother. I have grown up in over five countries myself and went to foreign schools and college. I have come across many Bangladeshis in college, and very few of them actually go back to their country. Instead they stay or migrate into some other country. 

I don't know about Indians. But from the looks of things, most Indians who are educated in the West in fact go back to India; the complete opposite of what is happening in Bangladesh. And most Indians intend to go back to India. 

Study finds most Indian graduate students in the US want to use their degrees back home - 1310News

This is one of the reasons why India is so much more advanced than Bangladesh right now. Sure there is corruption and grinding poverty in India, but that is a slightly different story. 

Why is Bangladesh having a brain drain? It is mainly because of lack of commitment from top political and business leadership for the most part in pretty much every aspect of life in Bangladesh. Sure, there is the garments industry, but the rest of them? Needs a lot more improvement. 

Dhaka is the worst capital city in the world according to The Economist.
Worst city in the world

As I said, it is all about commitment from the top level.  

Think very carefully before you intellectually challenge people bro.


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## Zabaniyah



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## LaBong

^OMG that picture caused the s h i t to hit fan once!


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## Al-zakir

iajdani said:


> You have to see it in different angle. Not a single attack was carried out in West Pakistan by Mukti Bahini. But West Pakistanis *killed and million* in East Pakistan by themselves and by their proxy Rajakars and Biharis. The retribution was natural and just.


 
Do you know, how many zero's in million. You are true follower of Mujib. You have no shame. Have some dignity and accept the new truth that is coming out now, which make more sense then Mujib and Bhartis fabricated BS number.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Shinigami said:


> @ all BD members
> 
> dont tango with Tiki Tam Tam. chinese members tried it and he made them cry. he became more chinese than the chinese themselves.
> 
> just a warning...



My equation with Bangladeshi except the Razaakar and the Bihari fifth columnists are different.

They are OK chaps and one learns a lot about Bangladesh of today from them.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Zabanya said:


>



Who ever is Siddharth Singh must be from some ad agency trying hard to sell his product.

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## Tiki Tam Tam

Al-zakir said:


> Do you know, how many zero's in million. You are true follower of Mujib. You have no shame. Have some dignity and accept the new truth that is comming out now, which make more sense then Mujib and Bhartis fabricated BS number.



Comming out like bumming along?

Haven't understood what is comming though it rhymes with bumming!!

I find you are flying the US flag. God help the Americans if your are a white collar worker with spellings like that!


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## Zabaniyah

The point he is trying to make is that some key people in both India and Bangladesh manipulate statistical facts during the Liberation War for their own benefit for control. The AL is one of them. The AL during the early days of Bangladesh was highly disorganized. 

The AL leadership as it is now will not help solve any of Bangladesh's main problems at the moment. And certainly doesn't improve India's image in the eyes of many Bangladeshis living here. I have already described the nature of the problems in Bangladesh.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Zabanya said:


> Since when did Al-Zakir threaten America's security? Just because you don't agree with him doesn't automatically mean he is a terrorist.
> 
> The point he is trying to make is that some key people in both India and Bangladesh manipulate statistical facts during the Liberation War for their own benefit for control. The AL is one of them. The AL during the early days of Bangladesh was highly disorganized.
> 
> The AL leadership as it is now will not help solve any of Bangladesh's main problems at the moment. And certainly doesn't improve India's image in the eyes of many Bangladeshis living here. I have already described the nature of the problems in Bangladesh.




Addressed to?


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## Zabaniyah

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> Addressed to?



Edited.....


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## Tiki Tam Tam

I don't know as to whom it was addressed to, but I will take a shy.

No, no one is saying Al Zakira is a terrorist. If he were, he would have been picked by the US Home Security. Since he is still posting, it means he is on the right side of the US authorities.

I don't know why AL is being said to have manipulated statistics.

Where was the requirement? They were riding high on emotions.

And since it appears that Mujib wanted Bangladesh to be a one party dictatorial regime, where was his requirement to manipulate anything?

Actually, what AL does or does not, is not material to India except the import of terrorists and illegal immigrants.

Otherwise, it does not concern or worry India as to how Bangladesh charts its destiny.

To be honest, I think you all overplay the interest India has in Bangladesh, just to massage your self imagined importance.

None, except Bengalis of India, are concerned what is happening in Bangladesh.

Bangladesh is no threat to India nor is anywhere close to being a competitor either.

So, why should India bother about what otherwise is inconsequential?

Of course, at the same time, one wishes Bangladesh all the best, for after all who wants a neighbour who is a source of problems for the neighbourhood.

I am not being rude, but that is what is the honest truth,

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## yousaf goebbels

Zabanya said:


>


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## yousaf goebbels

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> Comming out like bumming along?
> 
> Haven't understood what is comming though it rhymes with bumming!!
> 
> I find you are flying the US flag. God help the Americans if your are a white collar worker with spellings like that!


 
what about india if they have professionals like you??


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## Zabaniyah

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> I don't know as to whom it was addressed to, but I will take a shy.
> 
> No, no one is saying Al Zakira is a terrorist. If he were, he would have been picked by the US Home Security. Since he is still posting, it means he is on the right side of the US authorities.
> 
> I don't know why AL is being said to have manipulated statistics.
> 
> Where was the requirement? They were riding high on emotions.
> 
> And since it appears that Mujib wanted Bangladesh to be a one party dictatorial regime, where was his requirement to manipulate anything?
> 
> Actually, what AL does or does not, is not material to India except the import of terrorists and illegal immigrants.
> 
> Otherwise, it does not concern or worry India as to how Bangladesh charts its destiny.
> 
> To be honest, I think you all overplay the interest India has in Bangladesh, just to massage your self imagined importance.
> 
> None, except Bengalis of India, are concerned what is happening in Bangladesh.
> 
> Bangladesh is no threat to India nor is anywhere close to being a competitor either.
> 
> So, why should India bother about what otherwise is inconsequential?
> 
> Of course, at the same time, one wishes Bangladesh all the best, for after all who wants a neighbour who is a source of problems for the neighbourhood.
> 
> I am not being rude, but that is what is the honest truth,


 
Sorry my bad on the first part of my post. 

Yeah, the AL was riding high on emotions. And they still do. What was his requirement to manipulate anything? Maybe it is all about control. Or, it could have been an honest mistake. It was stated that he mistakenly said 3 million instead of 300,000 people killed. Maybe that is what happened. All in the books of classes now. 

People now believe that 3 million people died. Even now, international sources say that actual figure vary wildly between 300,000 to 3 million. There clearly was an issue of misinformation at the time. And for some reason, Bangladeshi leaders are reluctant to correct or see into it. I think they are too busy cussing at others. 

I have also heard that history in the classes of Pakistan over the events of 1971 are different from the rest of the world. All for the sake of patriotism. That isn't so nice now is it? 

Sorry if I didn't provide enough evidence to prove just how oppressive Mujib's sons were, but this partly shows it:
http://www.inewsone.com/2011/03/15/ziaur-rahman-passively-involved-in-mujib-murder-us-scribe/35642

Zia himself was reluctant to protect Mujib. He should have fled to India when he had the chance. 

I don't think we'll ever know the truth really as to how many died. I didn't see any international trails over the matter due to complexities of the Cold War. No point in whining over it. I think it is best to move on. 

Fair enough about India. The AL always have good relations with India though.


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## Zabaniyah

yousaf goebbels said:


>

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## Tiki Tam Tam

yousaf goebbels said:


> what about india if they have professionals like you??



Read the post.

What has professionalism to do with it?

I hope you understand English.

You come out to be highly deficient in comprehension and your mind appears to be footloose in the coherent coordination factor.

Enjoy with the childlike mind!

And with a moniker as Goebbel what can one expect from a clone of the Nazi Propaganda Minister?!!


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## Skies

*1971 related threads on PDF:*

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/84875-december-16-1971-east-pakistan-bangladesh.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...adesh-urges-pakistan-apology-1971-crimes.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...egations-massive-propoganda-sarmila-bose.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/41456-battles-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...mran-demands-apology-pakistan-bangladesh.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/26732-atrocities-1971-civil-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/52353-advantages-creation-bangladesh-pakistan.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/20918-separation-east-pakistan-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/1870-creation-bangladesh.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/107635-myth-busting-bangladesh-war-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/50079-truth-1971-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...our-226-indians-role-1971-liberation-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-apology-over-armys-wrongdoings-1971-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...nts-war-crimes-trials-indian-perspective.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...k-evidence-pakistan-usa-war-crime-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/104532-bangladesh-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-search-fact-about-killing-pakistan-army.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...al-book-accuses-bengalis-1971-war-crimes.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...nt-view-war-crime-trial-s-not-right-time.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...onsible-1971-break-up-pakistan-musharraf.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-responsible-1971-east-pak-fiasco-says-d.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...971-war-hasina-expresses-gratitude-india.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...ng-taught-about-separation-east-pakistan.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-1971-war-pakistan-vs-india-untold-story.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/19050-book-review-india-doctrine-1947-2007-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ologise-bangladesh-atrocities-imran-khan.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...story-exposing-propanganda-telling-truth.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-raw-involvement-east-pakistan-secession.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/110495-mujibs-confusion-bangladeshi-deaths.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...desh-name-major-road-after-indira-gandhi.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ni-soldiers-during-operation-searchlight.html


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## Tiki Tam Tam

yousaf goebbels said:


> what about india if they have professionals like you??



Well such professional liberate East Pakistan.

Not a mean task, actually.

since you wish to bring in infructuous point, do allow me the same courtsey.

speaks volumes of the professional on the other side, right?


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## Skies

> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/124950-raw-says-mujib-not-their-agent.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/124969-national-mourning-day-today.html



Questions?

-I want to know why so many people gathered on 7th March's speech and cheered to Mujib so spontaneously. Was that because of the Bangladeshi people were so much angry and fed up with GoP? Or Mujib was campaigning for long time to gather many people on 7th March? 

-Exactly how much were the level of discrimination in economy and job, and misrule that Mujib called for Independence on 7th March suddenly? Could he have waited more? 

-Was 25th March's mass killing by PK army due to 7th March speech to suppress the situation? I mean, was the 7th March's call for independence responsible for 25th March's killing?



............................................................................................................................

-If in 7th March speech that people were so united against misrule of GoP, then why not now? Why don't they wipe out Hasina league, and then if necessary BNP?

-And if so-called AL protested against the misrule of GoP in 71 then why not the same party does not speak any thing against India's harmful policies and border killing? Is that due to any secret relationship between so-called AL and India from 71?


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## Skies

*Sheikh Mujib and the Six Points*





_
"O judgment! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason. Bear with me;
My heart is in the coffin there with Caesar,
And I must pause till it come back to me." 
--- (Mark Antony in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, Act 3. Scene II)_

On this day, I am reminded of Mark Antony's passionate eulogy for the fallen Julius Caesar, who was assassinated in a conspiracy hatched by some of the people he trusted. In a similar fashion, thirty six years ago, under the cloak of darkness, a group of misguided disciples of Brutus rubbed out the life of our Father of the Nation. In his speech, Antony alludes to some of the charges brought up by Caesar's detractors, and he laments: 

&#8220;The evil that men do lives after them;

The good is oft interred with their bones;

So let it be with Caesar.&#8221;

As Antony aptly reminds us, good deeds are often buried with the fallen heroes. I write this short memoriam as an offering of admiration for the Six Points manifesto, one of Bangabandhu's many achievements and legacy, and offer a personal perspective on its influence on young economists like myself in our formative years. 

It will not be an exaggeration to assert that the Six Point programme, first enunciated by Bangabandhu in 1966, played an important role not only in the political landscape of Pakistan, but also in the education of economists of a whole generation. Many, like us, went through four years of economics in high school and college in the late 1960s, learning about market equilibrium, factors of production, and the structure of the economy of Pakistan. But none of the textbooks offered us any idea on some of the fundamental questions on our minds:

1. Why is the industrial sector growing faster in the West than in the East?

2. What are the mechanisms through which resources are transferred from the East to the West?

3. If jute and jute products are the main exports of Pakistan, what accounts for the publicized &#8220;foreign exchange constraint&#8221; that is blamed for the low rate of investment in the East?

4. Last, but not the least, if Pakistan is accumulating such huge foreign debts, why is this influx of &#8220;foreign aid&#8221; not improving the lot of the masses in the East?

The Six Points opened up the learning opportunity for those of us entering Dhaka University at the end of the so-called Decade of Development foisted on us by the brutal Ayub Khan regime. It opened our eyes to the degree and extent of the exploitation of the East in the name of national integration. The columns in the weekly journal Forum and the Sunday newspaper Holiday spelled out how the two wings of Pakistan had really become two economies. And we understood how this had happened within the short span of twenty years of Pakistan's existence. 

I remember that my fellow classmates in the Economics Department of Dhaka University --- Taki, Nisar and Shamim --- were fired up by the ongoing discussion on economic issues in the national arena prior to the 1970 elections, and worked tirelessly to revive the departmental journal, Optima. When they asked me to submit an essay, I did not hesitate and wrote my first analytical paper on the genesis of the &#8220;two economy&#8221; theory and the ever-widening disparity between the two regions of Pakistan. I hardly need to mention that I borrowed heavily from the literature that stemmed from the Six Points manifesto.

In his comments on the Six Points, M. Rashiduzzaman noted in a paper in 1970 that &#8220;Sheikh Mujibur Rahman gave a new turn to Pakistan politics when he put forward a six-point program which would allocate maximum power to the province, and at the same time reduce the strength of the Central Government&#8221;. However, it would not be too far-fetched to assert that the Six-Point program also changed the national discourse in the economic forum in the dying days of Pakistan. Points Three through Five brought the issues of capital flight, foreign exchange earnings, and single currency to the fore, and forced the ruling coterie to recognize that the struggle of Bangladesh's people was not just about political power, but also about economic emancipation. Bangabandu's goal was not only to take back political power from the ruling clique of the West, but also to give the people of Bangladesh better control over their economy, job prospects, and their own pocket book. 


Dr. Abdullah Shibli lives and works in Boston, USA.

Sheikh Mujib and the Six Points


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## Skies

*Mujeeb&#8217;s 6 points could have created four mini-states: expert*






Islamabad 

Shaikh Mujeeb-ur-Rehman&#8217;s six points could have converted West Pakistan&#8217;s four provinces into four mini-states as the centre would have lost the power to levy taxes, said former vice-president of the Islamabad Policy Research Institute (IPRI) Dr. Imtiaz Bokhari.

He was presenting a paper on the &#8216;US Policy During the 1971 Crisis&#8217; at the Area Study Centre for Africa, North and South America, Quaid-i-Azam University, here on Thursday. Dr. Rukhsana Qamber, director of the centre, conducted the proceedings.

Dr. Bokhari said that the success of a policy lies in the implementation of economic, diplomatic, political and military 

instruments. He claimed that 

the public spending was more 

in East Pakistan and mentioned the national leaders in-built weakness in running the federal government. 

He pointed out wide dichotomy between what was happening in the White House and at the US Department of State. The objective of the US policy was humanitarian and prevention of the 1971 Indo-Pak war, which could not be accomplished. 

He said that the US failed to compel India to peacefully settle its issues with Pakistan because of lack of adequate instruments. During the conflict, India aimed not only at disintegrating but also crippling Pakistan. 

The United States wanted to prevent war and opening of a second front in West Pakistan, which was certain to have a negative impact on their process of normalising relations with China through Pakistan. 

Lacking its own instruments to influence India, the US used the Soviet Union&#8217;s economic, military and political ties with India to stop it from attacking West Pakistan by informing the Soviets that if they failed to do so the US relations with them would be at stake in the light of the forthcoming Super Power Summit on detente. In such a context, it was a wise decision of Pakistan to have the third option of closer ties with China right from the start in spite of the American wrath.

Air Commodore (r) Muhammad Ayaz-ul-Haq Quddusi said that a wise enemy is better than a 

dumb friend and questioned 

Henry Kissinger&#8217;s ability to 

influence the White House before July 15, 1971, when he visited Beijing under the garb of Nathiagali visit.

Dr. Bokhari said that the break-up of Pakistan and emergence of Bangladesh was a significant and painful event in the recent history of the subcontinent from which we could draw important lessons for national integrity that we were forgetting today.

Dr. Qamber said that besides the cloak and dagger aspects during the 1971 crisis, this civil war leads us to compare the unresolved consequences of the American Civil War. 

She stressed that everyone, especially academics, must resolve problems through debate, dialogue and other means, such as the pre-1971 Pakistani policy of encouraging marriages between East and West Pakistanis.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=36720&Cat=6


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## Skies

> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/127715-pakistani-brutality-wait-its-not.html





> _Caption in the book -- "Indian Troops Grimly round up villagers suspected to be Pakistani spies they peer into Lungi in search of weapons."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The picture is from a book by an Indian photographer called Kishor Parekh, called "Bangladesh- A Brutal Birth"_



If that was a PK army then how could an Indian journalist/photographer take picture in front of Pk army during that lungi search? I think PK army was not likely to give permission to take picture. So I think that was an Indian army so that was possible for an Indian photographer take picture during the lungi search by Indian Army.

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## Skies

^

Still there are lot of secrets.

-Agartala conspiracy?

*link1:* http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/50095-truth-1971-sheikh-haseena-wajid.html
*link 2:* http://bdnews24.com/details.php?cid=2&id=155271&hb=top

-I want to know how much was to level of dissatisfaction in East Pakistanis actually? Or there was added propaganda that made them dissatisfied?
-How much incitement were added by India and local dalal intellectuals?
-How many were killed? I have not seen any limbless fighter in my life directly.

-And right now, I want to know *why and when* Pk army decided to kill Bangladeshi people in 25th March. Was that decision taken *just due to 7th March's Mujib's speech for freedom* to make the situation stable? And whether the decision of 25th March's killing was taken *before or after* 7th March by PA?


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## notsuperstitious

> I have not seen any limbless fighter in my life directly.



This is the question al zakira also keeps repeating everywhere, albeit for civlians. When armed forces arrest you (civilians), then round up and then shoot you, how is one supposed to be limbless??? And the proportion he claims is for one prson dead more than one limbless!!!

I've never shot anyone, but when two people in captivity are shot, one becomes limbless and the other dies? Is that how it is, maybe some military professional can shed some light. Maybe that video where pakistani army is rounding up people in Dhaka university and shooting them needs to be analysed closely to see any flying limbs...


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Skies said:


> _Caption in the book -- "Indian Troops Grimly round up villagers suspected to be Pakistani spies they peer into Lungi in search of weapons."_
> 
> If that was a PK army then how could an Indian journalist/photographer take picture in front of Pk army during that lungi search? I think PK army was not likely to give permission to take picture. So I think that was an Indian army so that was possible for an Indian photographer take picture during the lungi search by Indian Army.



In a disturbed zone, are there no journalists?

If so, how do books of various countries show that famous prize winning (Pulitzer) photo of the Vietnamese girl, running nude down the track with having been napalmed by the US/ South Vietnam?


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## Skies

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> In a disturbed zone, are there no journalists?
> 
> If so, how do books of various countries show that famous prize winning (Pulitzer) photo of the Vietnamese girl, running nude down the track with having been napalmed by the US/ South Vietnam?



It was a room/closed room. Not under the open sky or in the road. I do not think that entry of an Indian photographer in there is possible to take the photos of torture/lungi search by PA. Here matter is the presence of an Indian journalist in a room before PA and during action. Possible??? Can PA allow?


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## Tiki Tam Tam

It appears that you have missed the subtlety.

Indian journalist?

Could the photo not have been taken by a US journalist?

The US was pro Pakistan.

And when have journalists looked beyond a 'scoop' in troubled waters or given a twist to conform to the flavour of the moment?


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## Syed Naved

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Tears in my eyes and pain and hatred in my
> my heart..........
> 
> Oh! deathly cold December, thou shall always be in mourning.


 If it was not happened , was not better but best,
but,separation occurs.here in bd when I personaly talk with pakistani brothers,hang with them..asa lagta hi nahi kay vo pakistani hai.bhutto ,muzib,india jo kia yeh log kay lia toh zahannum bhi kam hi hein.

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## Syed Naved

F-16_Falcon said:


> if they were with us than must be working for bhartis. traitors. what happened is good for pakistan and wish of allah.


 addressing all the bangladeshi traitor is just like what some kind of brainwashed people (mujib's supporter) say about pakistan.they say that all the pakis are thieves ,criminals also said that people who support pakistan or pakistani people that is a crime.but not all of us like them.we create muslim league ,we create pakistan,then how can we wish to destroy it ?? it was mujib,india and their brainwashed student wings and indian trained "mukti".and this mukti was brutal more then anything.if mujib and his daughters political party not get support from india we would threw them out of our nation.and yes,we dont consider you our enemy but brothers but yes we hate bhutto,we hate yahya,muzib and india above all. and yes we respect jinnah.and what happened was not allah's but a traitor named mujib and his friend india's wish and conspiracy.and if we were traitors,indian agents ,we would never treat u'r people as our brother,we would never arise against india and muzibs perty.what we just need is to restore our brotherly relation ,coz it's not quaids dream but according to our islam ,all the muslims are brother.so why we hate each other instead of sorting problems . from my point of view for ones crime why would we punish others member of his/her family , they are innocent.so yes, I love pakistan and pakistany people xcept 71's war criminal from both side.coz crime is a crime,but for that innocents mustn't be punished.sorry ,if say something hursh or wrong

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## W.11

Syed Naved said:


> addressing all the bangladeshi traitor is just like what some kind of brainwashed people (mujib's supporter) say about pakistan.they say that all the pakis are thieves ,criminals also said that people who support pakistan or pakistani people that is a crime.but not all of us like them.we create muslim league ,we create pakistan,then how can we wish to destroy it ?? it was mujib,india and their brainwashed student wings and indian trained "mukti".and this mukti was brutal more then anything.if mujib and his daughters political party not get support from india we would threw them out of our nation.and yes,we dont consider you our enemy but brothers but yes we hate bhutto,we hate yahya,muzib and india above all. and yes we respect jinnah.and what happened was not allah's but a traitor named mujib and his friend india's wish and conspiracy.and if we were traitors,indian agents ,we would never treat u'r people as our brother,we would never arise against india and muzibs perty.what we just need is to restore our brotherly relation ,coz it's not quaids dream but according to our islam ,all the muslims are brother.so why we hate each other instead of sorting problems . from my point of view for ones crime why would we punish others member of his/her family , they are innocent.so yes, I love pakistan and pakistany people xcept 71's war criminal from both side.coz crime is a crime,but for that innocents mustn't be punished.sorry ,if say something hursh or wrong



actually i agree with you just that you used 'pakis' and thats an offensive term to pakistanis

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## Syed Naved

KarachiPunk said:


> actually i agree with you just that you used 'pakis' and thats an offensive term to pakistanis


 i used that ,that u people can know about mujib and his followers.That word used by them not by us.i mention this that u all can understand how worse they are.
Awami leagurs used many more offensive word against u.not only against you by also against holy prophet ,islam , they even remove allahs name from constitution ,they change the meaning of bismillah hir rahmanir rahim with the help of a hindu leader suranjeet sen.but rest of the bangladeshi people are not like that.for that and to improve yours and ours relation more close our leader khaleda zia madam wants china in saarc.We Always Adress You most of the time "Pakistani brother" or other case "hum toh bada bhai-chota bhai" .bada bhai means you and chote bhai means bangladeshi. Remember ,hanadaar bahini,"khansena(pak army) " only used by them ,the traitors followers not by us.we are reverse of them ,That is why Haseena ( muzib's daughter) and her govt hate us ( supporters of sitara e hilal ,our beloved leader,president zia ur rehman and his wife begum khaleda zia's supporters) .not only people of bnp ,even general people hate hasina,muzib , but they become helpless coz of india.people each time vote for khaleda but awam e league change it with the help of india.if it not occurs,awam e league kabhi power mein aa bhi nai sakti. jab mujib ka death hua,aur rakshi bahini ki fall hua 0n 75 , logo na khusise mitthai bati ek doosre ko aur khosia manai yeh kehte hue ,"feraun ka maut hua". jo bhi ap log sunte ho media mein vo un logon ki kahna hai,awam ki jubaan vo nahi.hum log aap logon se nahi india say nafrat krte hain.


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## 53fd

For me, Bangladesh should've never been a part of Pakistan. They only joined the independence movement at the end. While I have regrets over how the West Pakistan government treated the East, I have no regrets about the 1971 war. I have pride in the soldiers of Pakistan who fought the 1971 war. I salute them. I have no regrets about Bangladesh splitting off from Pakistan, such a model (being separated by over 1500 miles of enemy territory) was never feasible. India made its biggest mistake by helping create Bangladesh, the insurgency movement in their North East is rife, & haunts them everyday & drains their resources. There are millions of illegal Bangladeshis in India today, & are a huge nuisance for them. Bangladeshis have lost their lovey-dovey sentiments for India, Bangladeshi people today hate Indians & will always remain under their shadow.


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## Zabaniyah

bilalhaider said:


> For me, Bangladesh should've never been a part of Pakistan. They only joined the independence movement at the end. While I have regrets over how the West Pakistan government treated the East, I have no regrets about the 1971 war. I have pride in the soldiers of Pakistan who fought the 1971 war. I salute them. I have no regrets about Bangladesh splitting off from Pakistan, such a model (being separated by over 1500 miles of enemy territory was never feasible. India made its biggest mistake by helping create Bangladesh, the insurgency movement in their North East is rife, & haunts them everyday & drains their resources. *There are millions of illegal Bangladeshis in India today, & are a huge nuisance for them. Bangladeshis have lost their lovey-dovey sentiments for India, Bangladeshi people today hate Indians & will always remain under their shadow.*



Expect a lot troll attacks from that  

Actually, India's main intention was to smash Pakistani into two. And they were successful at that. It doesn't necessarily have to do with having some 'good will' toward Bengali Muslims. 

It was on of the few cases where our interests intersected with India. But, intentions were different.

India's current intention toward Bangladesh is to create some sort of vassal state, and the transit issue is the big one here. They dreamed about having that for a very long time in order to have a direct connection to the North Eastern parts which have been troublesome and then there is China. 

And that certainly was never in the interests of the then-Pakistan. 

And that fight is ongoing to this very day.

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## IND151

this thread is still witnessing debate?


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## 53fd

Zabanya said:


> Expect a lot troll attacks from that
> 
> Actually, India's main intention was to smash Pakistani into two. And they were successful at that. It doesn't necessarily have to do with having some 'good will' toward Bengali Muslims.
> 
> It was on of the few cases where our interests intersected with India. But, intentions were different.
> 
> India's current intention toward Bangladesh is to create some sort of vassal state, and the transit issue is the big one here. They dreamed about having that for a very long time in order to have a direct connection to the North Eastern parts which have been troublesome and then there is China.
> 
> And that certainly was never in the interests of the then-Pakistan.
> 
> And that fight is ongoing to this very day.



Trust me, it was in Pakistan's interests to be separated from Bangladesh. There was only a traumatic effect on the people, but on the whole, it was a good thing for Pakistan. By the way, my father was raised in Bangladesh, & he did his schooling in Chittagong & Dhaka, & is fluent in Bangla. I had a lot of my family there as well before 1971. It was a sad chapter in Pakistan's history, but it's done & over with, & there's no point in thinking about it. In fact, Pakistan has managed to form reasonably warm relations with Bangladesh (something India hasn't been able to do with Pakistan since 1947) & has moved on, it is a certain section of Bangladesh (AL) that wants to exploit the sentiments of the Bangla people, & have been successful in doing that to an extent. The more Bangladesh ponders over the past, the more it reminisces over the trauma, & harder it is to move on for them as a nation.

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## Kazhugu

@ zabanya...


other than smashing pakistan, we also had millions of bangla refugees flooing into india and changing the demographics and opportunities.....it was the main reason imo...


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## Md Akmal

bilalhaider said:


> Trust me, it was in Pakistan's interests to be separated from Bangladesh. There was only a traumatic effect on the people, but on the whole, it was a good thing for Pakistan. By the way, my father was raised in Bangladesh, & he did his schooling in Chittagong & Dhaka, & is fluent in Bangla. I had a lot of my family there as well before 1971. It was a sad chapter in Pakistan's history, but it's done & over with, & there's no point in thinking about it. In fact, Pakistan has managed to form reasonably warm relations with Bangladesh (something India hasn't been able to do with Pakistan since 1947) & has moved on, *it is a certain section of Bangladesh (AL) that wants to exploit the sentiments of the Bangla people, & have been successful in doing that to an extent.* The more Bangladesh ponders over the past, the more it reminisces over the trauma, & harder it is to move on for them as a nation.



@ Your this assumption is wrong. We still consider Pakistan is our brother and friend. Let's hope for the best.

@ By the way for the last 35 years this way or that way Pakistan has helped a lot politically, economically, morally, materially and what not. It is only AL and its supporters who all are jumping too much about liberation war.

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## 53fd

Md Akmal said:


> @ Your this assumption is wrong. We still consider Pakistan is our brother and friend. Lei's hope for the best.



I don't want to speak for other Pakistanis, but I can never accept Bangladesh as a brother nation to Pakistan. I can think of them as a friendly nation that can have good ties with Pakistan, but that's about it. I do not have any problems with calling the Bangladeshi people my brothers though, just as I have no problem calling the Indian people that.

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## Zabaniyah

bilalhaider said:


> Trust me, it was in Pakistan's interests to be separated from Bangladesh. There was only a traumatic effect on the people, but on the whole, it was a good thing for Pakistan. By the way, my father was raised in Bangladesh, & he did his schooling in Chittagong & Dhaka, & is fluent in Bangla. I had a lot of my family there as well before 1971. It was a sad chapter in Pakistan's history, but it's done & over with, & there's no point in thinking about it. In fact, Pakistan has managed to form reasonably warm relations with Bangladesh (something India hasn't been able to do with Pakistan since 1947) *& has moved on, it is a certain section of Bangladesh (AL) that wants to exploit the sentiments of the Bangla people, & have been successful in doing that to an extent. The more Bangladesh ponders over the past, the more it reminisces over the trauma, & harder it is to move on for them as a nation.*



I am extremely cautious of the Awami League.

Not everyone is naive enough to fall for their lies. That party at the moment hardly delivers any value whatsoever. 




Kazhugu said:


> @ zabanya...
> 
> 
> other than smashing pakistan, we also had millions of bangla refugees flooing into india and changing the demographics and opportunities.....it was the main reason imo...



Yes, I know about those refugees. That's where the Mukti Bahini partly got their training from the Indians.

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## Syed Naved

bilalhaider said:


> For me, Bangladesh should've never been a part of Pakistan. They only joined the independence movement at the end. While I have regrets over how the West Pakistan government treated the East, I have no regrets about the 1971 war. I have pride in the soldiers of Pakistan who fought the 1971 war. I salute them. I have no regrets about Bangladesh splitting off from Pakistan, such a model (being separated by over 1500 miles of enemy territory) was never feasible. India made its biggest mistake by helping create Bangladesh, the insurgency movement in their North East is rife, & haunts them everyday & drains their resources. There are millions of illegal Bangladeshis in India today, & are a huge nuisance for them. Bangladeshis have lost their lovey-dovey sentiments for India, Bangladeshi people today hate Indians & will always remain under their shadow.


 showing respect to your sentiment brother,east bengal take part from the begining.muslim league by itself was created by our ancestor nabab sir salimullah ( i say my ancestor coz i'm from nabab family of old dhaka).and i myself respect those soldiers who fight for their mother land.lakin yebhi sach hai do hath rahe to hi accha,lakin agar accident ki wajase hat ya ek paer toot jae ,kia wo sahi hai? kabhi bhi nahi.i my self know that all pakistany soldiers were not that type of what is being told in media.how? coz one of the major of pakistan army who was from balooch regiment save life of my own khala. my mothers maternal grandfather was the president of muslim league of naogaon district that time.if that major don't tell him,"haji sab , aap naogaon mein hamari muslim league kay president hai aur mulk ki haal bhi ab kuch thik nahi.ap ki potii ki jaan khatre mein hy aur use kahi aur bhej do.kiyun ki west mein mera bhi beti hein uski tarha aur apki potii mere beti jasa hi hain,aur main nahi chahti ki uske upar koi bhi khatra aye" .infact balooch,pathan,wajiri regiment never just fire a bullet upon bengali.on this part punjab regiment mainly took part in war.infact pakistani soldiers told my maternal grandmother this," ammi hamein is jung mein personaly koi interest nahi,kiyun kii bengali hamare bhai hai.lakin hum soldiers hai,is lia sirf hukum ya farz kay khatir hum is jung mein bhag le rahe hein.aur hum aap log ko dushman nahi sochte,lakin hum mazboor hai." and the mertyrs of eastern wings,may be they were right or may be wrong ,but they also fight for their homeland so they also respected.but what has happened should not to be happened.because if we two were united india never would able to rise as a power in the sub continent,when confliction begans they just take the advantage and create hatreds between us.but now everything is changed.question is not about being always separate or become reunite again,question is ," when we know the common enemy,culprit why we the muslims will give them chance every time.even quaid said that if we remain united we become a power.so why don't we pakistany and bangladeshi muslim brothers work together,help each other..and remove this hatred from us and become a true muslim? coz accordin to the holy book and our hadith we know , allah subhanata'la and his messenger holy prophet(p.b.u.h) has said," ALL THE MUSLIMS ARE BROTHERS.SO YOU PEOPLE HIDE EACH OTHERS ERORS AND BE BROTHERS ". Once India was under muslim coz we were united then why we can't be again? think, if we realy hate you,then why we send help when pakistan is in crisis during natural calamities,why we send braac .that braac whose founder himself take part in liberation . and think why we give proposal to you to join saarc ,when we know everything about 71.it's because that we bealive and we know that general people of our ex western part ,their soldiers all are not bad.we know that it was due to indian conspiracy.moreover past is past.now we need to maintain this brotherhood and stay closer.because india never become a friend of neither bangladesh nor pakistan , because we are muslim.so our strength is our unity.and we have to maintain this.coz a great leader of our history has said," muslims don't have a nation because they themselv is a nation".and another muslim leader of us said," a muslim brother can never take fight against another muslim".so we the muslims dont need hatred among us but brotherhood.

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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Karachiite said:


> No place for traitors or Bharti agents in Pakistan, we are better off without them.



You are traitor.

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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

This is completely rubbish paperwork. All the matters are solved previously. The Punjabis were gainer to achieve the Lahore. We were forced to sacrifice the Kolkata. Pakistan was not the hope of Bangladeshi. But Congress Agent Jinnah has betrayed with Bangladeshi Nation by using fluid by replacing state instead of states in Lahore Proposal which was raised by Sher E Bangla Abul Kashem Fazlul Haque(Basis of Muslim states in this region).


As a result Brihot Bangladesh or Banglastan was not gained at 1947. We were prescribed to stay with the artificial country named Pakistan.


Punjabis didn't recognize us as Pakistanis, though we were the majority. The Army was named according to ethnicity(Pujab,Bengal,Sindh,Beloch etc.) which is a crime to a nation. Now in Bangladesh it is numbered not based of ethnicity.

Punjabis didn't recognize us as Pakistanis, though we were the majority. For this reason. they refused to handover the power to people in the leadership of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. They attacked the university of Dhaka. What a non sense decision! University students are assets for every nation. Punjabis were so bastard to destroy the golden boys of the nation. They did that with full of sense. They wanted the separation. In fact the West Pakistan has become independent from Bangladesh as huge population would migrate from East to West. But it should be kept in mind that the Lahore is achieved by the Value of Kolkata. Punjabis betrayed us. Bhutto has said that I need one Pakistan. They did that successfully by killing the mass people, our valuable manpower. Punjabis are betrayer. They will never be in peace. They have no right to say about Bangladesh. Major Ziaur Rahman was the hero of Pakistani Army in Kashmir War in 1965. But there was certain fault of Bastard Punjabis which has forced him to declare the independence of Bangladesh just for survival taking the almost impossible life risk.

So, this thread has no moral base. Hindus are not factor in Bangladesh. Almost
All of the freedom fighters were Muslim. So, this Punjabi propaganda is unsuccessful.


Pakistan is still being looted by Punjabis by depriving other ethnicity. Pakistani Nationalism is yet to be developed.

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## Last Hope

*The hidden truth. In one hour, you will find what happened in between 1965 and 1971 that led to fall of East Pakistan by Saffron terrorism.*






And this is all true. This is based on reports of ISI. Those reports are kept in our HQ and I can assure it is all true.


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## kobiraaz

Sheikh you should edit your post and remove some offensive words if you want to continue posting on Aryan ...

---------- Post added at 02:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 AM ----------




Last Hope said:


> *The hidden truth. In one hour, you will find what happened in between 1965 and 1971 that led to fall of East Pakistan by Saffron terrorism.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is all true. This is based on reports of ISI. Those reports are kept in our HQ and I can assure it is all true.


Zaid Hamid is too biased, one sided video..... Just like Awamileague propaganda... Opposite side of the coin

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## 53fd

Let's just move on from the past. Pakistan has moved on. Bangladesh has too, but there are a few people too caught up with it. I don't have any anguish for my Bangladeshi brothers, I want to congratulate them on their independence. Calling the nation of Bangladesh a brother of Pakistan is a stretch though, & I will never accept this. Pakistan is better off this without East Pakistan as well. 1971 taught Pakistan some harsh lessons, & helped become an important nation in the region & the world. I wouldn't have wanted it (1971) any other way to be honest, except the scenario that Bangladesh was never a part of Pakistan in 1947.


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## Last Hope

Bro, do look at it. All he said is from reports of ISI.
And I know they are true cause I have worked with ISI and they confirmed this to be true.
The reports are quoted with ex members of Mukhti Bahni and from American Think Tanks.

It is worth hearing.

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## kobiraaz

Last Hope said:


> Bro, do look at it. All he said is from reports of ISI.
> And I know they are true cause I have worked with ISI and they confirmed this to be true.
> The reports are quoted with ex members of Mukhti Bahni and from American Think Tanks.
> 
> It is worth hearing.


.
I saw it before... Ok i will watch it again and post on it.


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## Syed Naved

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> You are traitor.


 it's also be remembered many of them don't know the truth,we can say traitor whatever to the war criminal of both side ,you have no right to say all the pakistany traitor.some may be guilty not all,it is also be rememberd that mukti bahini by itself killed so many biharis ,that is also a crime.not only that they even kidnap womens.....so both side crime has occurd.we dont need anymore bitterness but brotherhood.that is the only solution of everything

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## Last Hope

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> This is completely rubbish paperwork. All the matters are solved previously. The Punjabis were gainer to achieve the Lahore. We were forced to sacrifice the Kolkata. Pakistan was not the hope of Bangladeshi. But Congress Agent Jinnah has betrayed with Bangladeshi Nation by using fluid by replacing state instead of states in Lahore Proposal which was raised by Sher E Bangla Abul Kashem Fazlul Haque(Basis of Muslim states in this region).
> 
> 
> As a result Brihot Bangladesh or Banglastan was not gained at 1947. We were prescribed to stay with the artificial country named Pakistan.
> 
> 
> Punjabis didn't recognize us as Pakistanis, though we were the majority. The Army was named according to ethnicity(Pujab,Bengal,Sindh,Beloch etc.) which is a crime to a nation. Now in Bangladesh it is numbered not based of ethnicity.
> 
> Punjabis didn't recognize us as Pakistanis, though we were the majority. For this reason. they refused to handover the power to people in the leadership of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. They attacked the university of Dhaka. What a non sense decision! University students are assets for every nation. Punjabis were so bastard to destroy the golden boys of the nation. They did that with full of sense. They wanted the separation. In fact the West Pakistan has become independent from Bangladesh as huge population would migrate from East to West. But it should be kept in mind that the Lahore is achieved by the Value of Kolkata. Punjabis betrayed us. Bhutto has said that I need one Pakistan. They did that successfully by killing the mass people, our valuable manpower. Punjabis are betrayer. They will never be in peace. They have no right to say about Bangladesh. Major Ziaur Rahman was the hero of Pakistani Army in Kashmir War in 1965. But there was certain fault of Bastard Punjabis which has forced him to declare the independence of Bangladesh just for survival taking the almost impossible life risk.
> 
> So, this thread has no moral base. Hindus are not factor in Bangladesh. Almost
> All of the freedom fighters were Muslim. So, this Punjabi propaganda is unsuccessful.
> 
> 
> Pakistan is still being looted by Punjabis by depriving other ethnicity. Pakistani Nationalism is yet to be developed.



*My son, you don't know anything that happened.
You are just claiming what you were taught. Better ask from someone who is alive and witnessed those days.
The best person to ask is MM Alam (Who is from E.Pakistan).
*

Those who witnessed the 1971 know the truth.


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## 53fd

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> This is completely rubbish paperwork. All the matters are solved previously. The Punjabis were gainer to achieve the Lahore. We were forced to sacrifice the Kolkata. Pakistan was not the hope of Bangladeshi. But Congress Agent Jinnah has betrayed with Bangladeshi Nation by using fluid by replacing state instead of states in Lahore Proposal which was raised by Sher E Bangla Abul Kashem Fazlul Haque(Basis of Muslim states in this region).
> 
> 
> As a result Brihot Bangladesh or Banglastan was not gained at 1947. We were prescribed to stay with the artificial country named Pakistan.
> 
> 
> Punjabis didn't recognize us as Pakistanis, though we were the majority. The Army was named according to ethnicity(Pujab,Bengal,Sindh,Beloch etc.) which is a crime to a nation. Now in Bangladesh it is numbered not based of ethnicity.
> 
> Punjabis didn't recognize us as Pakistanis, though we were the majority. For this reason. they refused to handover the power to people in the leadership of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. They attacked the university of Dhaka. What a non sense decision! University students are assets for every nation. Punjabis were so bastard to destroy the golden boys of the nation. They did that with full of sense. They wanted the separation. In fact the West Pakistan has become independent from Bangladesh as huge population would migrate from East to West. But it should be kept in mind that the Lahore is achieved by the Value of Kolkata. Punjabis betrayed us. Bhutto has said that I need one Pakistan. They did that successfully by killing the mass people, our valuable manpower. Punjabis are betrayer. They will never be in peace. They have no right to say about Bangladesh. Major Ziaur Rahman was the hero of Pakistani Army in Kashmir War in 1965. But there was certain fault of Bastard Punjabis which has forced him to declare the independence of Bangladesh just for survival taking the almost impossible life risk.
> 
> So, this thread has no moral base. Hindus are not factor in Bangladesh. Almost
> All of the freedom fighters were Muslim. So, this Punjabi propaganda is unsuccessful.
> 
> 
> Pakistan is still being looted by Punjabis by depriving other ethnicity. Pakistani Nationalism is yet to be developed.



I as an 'Urdu speaker' take offense from the statement that Punjabis rule Pakistan. Some of the poorest people in Pakistan are in South Punjab. Let's move past this chapter of 1971, Pakistan has moved on, Bangladesh will forever be traumatized if it lingers on it. Pakistan is willing to have close relations with Bangladesh, & I think both countries can benefit from a close relationship.


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Faarhan said:


> Sheikh you should edit your post and remove some offensive words if you want to continue posting on Aryan ...
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 AM ----------
> 
> 
> Zaid Hamid is too biased, one sided video..... Just like Awamileague propaganda... Opposite side of the coin



What are those offensive words. I want to be informed.


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## Syed Naved

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> Punjabigo kase kannakati kore kono loove nai. Nejer desh nejderi rokhkha korte hobe.


 all the pakistany are not punjabi, ar etate kannakatir ki dekhlen apni.i defend myself,my nation and i bring up 
some real incident ja theke eta bojha jai,ja amra sunsi tar moddhe sotto mittha dutoi ase.dhalaobhabe bd er kisu lok pakistanidr kharap bhabe,ultapalta bole bolei tarao seroop bhabe. ar erokom ki bd er bhitoreo amra nijeder sathe korina?it's common because we may be leave different place but take birth from same place. on true sence they were our brother before and always remains.hatred never can bring peace


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## 53fd

I don't want to hate any Bangladeshi brother today. I love the Bangladeshi people. I wish them the best of luck, & their country the best of luck as well. I genuinely want them & their nation to do well. But Bangladesh will never be a brother nation to Pakistan, it's just not dandy.


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## Karachiite

Both sides were wrong but Bangladeshis only took up arms after being screwed badly by West Pakistan. East Pakistan generated most of the revenue but that revenue went straight to West Pakistan. Mujibur Rahman was betrayed and screwed for no reason even though constitutionally he was supposed to become PM but instead was arrested. Bhola Cyclone came and thousands died, millions homeless in East Pakistan. WTF did the government do? Nothing. 
Then Pakistan's Army tried to kill not only the nationalists but also innocent Bengalis, atrocities were committed. This all fuelled separation and rightly so. 

Pakistan broke up when Liaquat Ali Khan was assassinated. After that this country has been in the hands of feudal bastards. 

West Pakistan's Government kept on saying "What can these 4 foot Bengalis? Well they made the whole Pakistani Army surrender.

The sad part is the Pakistani government didn't learn anything from 1971, they have kept on oppressing certain minority ethnicities.

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## Syed Naved

bilalhaider said:


> I don't want to hate any Bangladeshi brother today. I love the Bangladeshi people. I wish them the best of luck, & their country the best of luck as well. I genuinely want them & their nation to do well. But Bangladesh will never be a brother nation to Pakistan, it's just not dandy.


 whatever , but we need to keep this brotherly relation & help each other.that can bring trust,peace among our people only ...


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

bilalhaider said:


> I don't want to hate any Bangladeshi brother today. I love the Bangladeshi people. I wish them the best of luck, & their country the best of luck as well. I genuinely want them & their nation to do well. But Bangladesh will never be a brother nation to Pakistan, it's just not dandy.



Your Wish and Belief about Bangladesh is not in the same tune. It is the nature of a traitor. Punjabis generally do that. It is the main tragic story of our Nation in 1971. For them Pakistani Nation is yet to be developed. Very Sad.


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## 53fd

I had my father's family spread in different cities of Bangladesh. My dad's elder brother was part of the Pakistan Navy in Chittagong. My dad himself studied in schools of Chittagong & Dhaka. I had family in Khulna as well. We are ethnic Biharis, you can imagine what my Dad's family had to go through, & I don't want to go there. My father misses his home in Chittagong & Dhaka everyday. My family reminisces of the good pre-1971 times in Bangladesh. 1971 is a painful chapter for me, & I want to move on from it.

---------- Post added at 01:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 AM ----------




Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> Your Wish and Belief about Bangladesh is not in the same tune. It is the nature of a traitor. Punjabis generally do that. It is the main tragic story of our Nation in 1971. For them Pakistani Nation is yet to be developed. Very Sad.



Please, I don't want to make offensive statements or talk ill about Bangladesh, but you have a long way to go before you speak about Pakistan like that. Pakistan has developed greatly since 1971, & can protect itself against any external or internal dangers. It is the Awami League & people like you that haven't moved on, Pakistan & the Pakistani people have moved on.


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## kobiraaz

bilalhaider said:


> I had my father's family spread in different cities of Bangladesh. *My dad's elder brother was part of the Pakistan Navy in Chittagong.* My dad himself studied in schools of Chittagong & Dhaka. I had family in Khulna as well. We are ethnic Biharis, you can imagine what my Dad's family had to go through, & I don't want to go there. My father misses his home in Chittagong & Dhaka everyday. My family reminisces of the good pre-1971 times in Bangladesh. 1971 is a painful chapter for me, & I want to move on from it.



Then you should know Pakistan Army from Naval Base and Airport in Chittagong attacked East Bengal Regiment First on 25th March, 1971. EBR,EPR had to fight for survival. Zia Ur Rahman was one of them who was a 1965 war hero..... Now my question is EBR and EPR didnt kill any Bihari... why they were attacked and killed??????????

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## 53fd

My dad's cousin was the creator of a famous radio show in Urdu & Bangla in Dhaka for 7 years pre 1971. My family has fond memories of Bangladesh, even though they had to face a lot of hardship post 1971, & I don't want to go there. Let's just learn to forgive & move on. I'm talking to you Sheikh Shakib Ahmed.

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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

bilalhaider said:


> I had my father's family spread in different cities of Bangladesh. My dad's elder brother was part of the Pakistan Navy in Chittagong. My dad himself studied in schools of Chittagong & Dhaka. I had family in Khulna as well. We are ethnic Biharis, you can imagine what my Dad's family had to go through, & I don't want to go there. 1971 is a painful chapter for me, & I want to move on from it.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 01:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Please, I don't want to make offensive statements or talk ill about Bangladesh, but you have a long way to go before you speak about Pakistan like that. Pakistan has developed greatly since 1971, & can protect itself against any external or internal dangers. It is the Awami League & people like you that haven't moved on, Pakistan & the Pakistani people have moved on.



As per history of your ancestry, you are the product of Bangladeshi soil though your ethnicity is Bihari. Bihar is more closer to Bangladesh than that of Pujab. Once upon a time , Bihar was in Brihot Bangladesh or Banglastan. Bihari and Bangali were the same nation during the period Nabob. You have very far relation with the Punjabi region. Why did you leave Bangladesh? Biharis are more closer to us. But maximum Biharis were the betrayer. They were used by Punjabis to kill their nearest Bangali brother just to get extra benefit. I have some relatives who has got the direct evidence. Biharis were of Indian origin. Bangalis provided them shelter. In the contrary, they provided us bullets as a tool of Punjabi who destroyed the integrity of United Pakistan very sensibly to trap Bangladesh with huge population in the upcoming future. Now, the Punjabis are enjoying the extra lands which were the rights of All ancient Pakistanis. They did that sensibly. But they will never be in peace.

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## 53fd

Faarhan said:


> Then you should know Pakistan Army from Naval Base and Airport in Chittagong attacked East Bengal Regiment First on 25th March, 1971. EBR,EPR had to fight for survival. Zia Ur Rahman was one of them who was a 1965 war hero..... Now my question is EBR and EPR didnt kill any Bihari... why they were attacked and killed??????????



Let's not go to who started what, we know who started what, & the proof was in millions of those people going into North East India causing trouble from starting 1970.


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## kobiraaz

*Chittagong*

Chittagong housed the only oil refinery in East Pakistan, had a large fuel depot, was the largest seaport and MV Swat, with 9000 tons of arms and ammunition was in port. Bengali units substantially outnumbered the West Pakistani Chittagong garrison, which was a cause of concern for Pakistani planners. Bengali officers of EPR and EBR had discussed a preemptive strike on Pakistan forces, but the senior Bengali officers (Lt. Col M.R. Choudhury -Chief Instructor, EBRC) and Major Ziaur Rahman (2IC, 8 EBR), dissuaded Captain Rafiq (Sector Adjutant, EPR) from rebelling in the belief that the Pakistani army would not take action against civilians, but confirmed that they will revolt in case of any Pakistani attack. Attempts to unload arms and ammunition from MV Swat were a partial failure during March 20-25th, as civilian protestors blocked any attempt to take the arms to the cantonment and many were shot by the army. Brig. Mazumdar was relieved of his post because of this failure.

Pakistani units were given the following objectives in Chittagong:

Disarm EBRC units, 8 EBR, EPR and police units
Seize police armory, radio station and telephone exchange
Liaise with Pakistani Navy
Arrest Lt. Col. MR Chaudhury and Awami League leaders.

The Chittagong garrison was to be reinforced by the bulk of 53rd Brigade troops from Comilla on March 26.












*Course of events:*
* March 25*

The daytime witnessed nothing unusual, Pakistani and Bengali troops continued normal activities, while civilians barricaded streets to impede army movements. 1 Company of Bengali soldiers unloaded the MV Swat, all day and night, which would be finished by March 26 midday. Pakistani navy secured the airport just after dusk, capturing all EPR personnel stationed there. Commodore Mumtaj prevented any massacre of Bengali Naval personnel at the naval base but also ensured they cause no mischief.The port facility was secured by a Pakistani infantry company by 9:00 PM. Communication networks were partially shutdown.

Around 8:30 PM, Captain Rafiq (Sector Adjutant, EPR) was informed of troop movements in Dhaka. He immediately went to the EPR HQ and successfully took control of the facility by 10:30, imprisoning about 300 Pakistani EPR members, then sent a prearranged signal to all Bengali EPR companies attached to the Chittagong EPR sector to imprison all Pakistani soldiers and come to the city. This is the only instance where Bengali units launched a preemptive strike against the Pakistanis during the operation. Captain Rafiq deployed his troops in Agrabad (100 soldiers), Railway Hill (150) and Court hill (a platoon). The rest guarded the EPR HQ. The EPR Ramgarh contingent was told to blow up the Shuvopur bridge. As per his discussions with Lt. Col. Chowdhury and Major Zia, he had assumed they would take over the cantonment &#8211; an assumption that would have fatal consequences.

20 Baluch, under Lt. Col Fatami, sent 6 truck loaded with troops to secure EBRC around 11:30 PM. They achieved total surprise and killed over 1000+ Bengali troops and secured the area by 3:30 PM. (Islam pp. 105&#8211;106) Lt Col. M.R. Chowdhury was among those killed, while surviving Bengali personnel were scattered. Pakistani forces had partially achieved their objectives by securing the cantonment, the port and the airport, and they awaited reinforcements from Comilla before taking further steps.

8 EBR troops at Sholoshahar were unaware of the attack on EBRC. Major Ziaur Rahman was away, making his way to port to unload ammunition from MV Swat around 11:45 PM while Major Mir Shawkat Ali had been ordered to take a company to the port. When some of the EBRC survivors reached 8 EBR lines begging for help, Captain Khalekuzzaman raced to find Zia while Captain Oli Ahmad began recalling EBR troops to Sholoshahar and arrested all Pakistani soldiers and officers of the unit. Captain Khalek managed to find Maj. Zia and get his escort of Pakistani troops back to 8 EBR lines, where Zia managed to arrest his escort and order Bengali troops to move out. Bengali officers were divided in their opinion, some wanted to take on the 20 Baluch at EBRC to save Bengali lives, but ultimately it was decided that such a move would be suicidal. 8 EBR left the city and took position across the Kalurghat bridge around 1:15 AM.Bengali troops killed all Pakistani prisoners including the CO, Lt. Col. Janjua prior to moving out.

Pakistani troops from the Naval base launched an unsuccessful attack on the EPR HQ in the early hours (2:00AM &#8211; 4:00 AM) of March 26. Around 4:00 March 26, Major Bahar (CO 53rd Brigade Signal Company -Bengali), warned Captain Rafiq of 80 to 100 vehicles bearing the bulk of 53rd Brigade troops under Brig. Iqbal Shaffi was moving towards Chittagong. Captain Rafiq sent a EPR Machine gun platoon under Subadar Musa, with a mortar and rocket launcher to delay the Pakistani column near Kumira, 12 miles north of Chittagong.

By 11:30 PM Captain Haroon (2IC 17th EPR Wing) had taken control of the wing, put Pakistani personnel in jail, and had signaled EPR troops in border areas to move to Chittagong by 3:30 AM. Captain Haroon with his troops reached Kalurghat Bridge by 26 March morning, where Major Zia ordered him to stay with the 8 EBR troops, along with 2 EPR companies coming from Teknaf Rangamati EPR Company imprisoned their Pakistani members and took position to the north east of cantonment by the early hours of March 26. Bengali plan of resistance had fallen apart, EPR troops were to remain without the expected reinforcements throughout the battle.

*March 26*

53rd Brigade detachment had moved out around 3:00 AM from Comilla, but was repeatedly faced delays on the way because of barricades, damaged culverts and other obstacles thrown up by civilians during their 100 mile journey to Chittagong, forcing them to stop and make makeshift repairs and diversion roads before moving on. They captured the partially damaged Suvapor Bridge intact around 10:00 AM then stopped to make repairs. Brig. Shaffi was ordered to make for Chittagong, so he resumed his advance with the infantry, commando troops and some mortars after midday, when his engineers put up a path across the ravine, leaving his engineers and mortar battery at Shuvopur. By 7 PM, March 26, this group had reached Kumira (Comeera), by which time Captain S.A. Bhuyan (after talking with Captain Rafiq over phone) of EBRC had reinforced the EPR Platoon at Kumira with 70 soldiers, and had divided his forces in 3 platoons to set up an ambush.

20 Baluch with some tanks had secured the area immediately around the cantonment in the morning. During the day Pakistani troops from naval base and EPR soldiers had several clashes inside the city, especially around the Agrabad area and the Railway hill resulting in Pakistani soldiers being bottled up in the naval base. Bengali positions in the city came under shellfire from Pakistani Naval ships and artillery, while Bengali troops at the port facility were disarmed around midday and shot before dusk.

Around 7 PM, Brig. Shaffi&#8217;s troops were ambushed near Kumira, losing 10 killed, and suffering almost 100 casualties, including Lt. Col. Shahpur Khan (CO 24 FF). Brig. Shaffi himself had to flee for the hills, and 2 truck full of arms were recovered by the Bengalis. Half the convoy was outside the ambush firing range and Pakistanis, commanded by Major Amzad Hussain (Bengali!!!) fought back, and a 2 hour long battle ensued. The mortars were handled by Captain Fazlur Rahman Bhuyan (Bengali), who ironically was a Kakul Academy batch mate of Captain S.A. Bhuyan, leading the Bengali ambush. The Pakistani column lost all contact with Comilla and the GHQ at Dhaka, raising fears that it had been wiped out, which, if true, might have crippled the Pakistani effort.

The EPR HQ and Railway hill came under intense bombardment by Pakistani naval ships (PNS Jahangir and 2 gunboats) and artillery during the day. Pakistani troops launched two attacks on the Railway hill and EPR HQ after a 2 hour barrage around 8:30 PM, but both attacks were repulsed. Pakistanis continued to shell both areas throughout the night.

At the end of March 26, both Pakistani and Bengali troops had been denied land based reinforcements. Pakistani troops were stuck at Kumira, while Major Zia was keeping any EPR troops heading to the city at Kalurghat. Pakistani troops were in control of the northern and southern part of the city, and they were getting reinforcements through the air. The 2nd SSG (CO: Lt. Col Sulayman) was flown to Chittagong, while ammunition was flown out to replenish Pakistani forces around the province. Bengali troops were stuck in the middle (literally and figuratively) so the lack of communication and coordination between Maj. Zia and Captain Rafiq meant Bengali positions would come under intense pressure. Maj Zia had decided not to enter the city until his forces were all organized, so 1000+ Bengali soldiers remained at Kalurghat. EPR troops from Ramgarh could not reach the city as Pakistanis stuck at Kumira barred their way, and the troops from Rangamati were stuck outside the cantonment. The Bengali soldiers in the city were in dire need of supplies and reinforcements.

* March 27*

Captain Rafiq and EPR troops withdrew from the Railway Hill position, and planning to join the EPR troops on the north of the cantonment before sunrise. Captain Rafiq planned to attack the cantonment and take over the supply dumps, but his troops moving towards the cantonment were taken to Kalurghat by Maj Zia enroute, scuttling this risky plan. Pakistani troops from the naval base moved through Agrabad towards the EPR HQ, but EPR troops managed to beat back the attack.

General Khadim, GOC East Pakistan flew to Chittagong cantonment in the morning and conferred with Col. Fatami, then tried to locate Brig. Shaffi&#8217;s troops flying along the Comilla-Chittagong highway by Helicopter. The helicopter was hit by small arms fire near Kumira, and returned to Dacca without making contact.Gen Khadim moved his HQ from Dhaka to Chittagong cantonment next, and sent a column of 20 Baluch to locate the 53rd Brigade troops, but this column clashed with the EPR troops north of the city and got bogged down. General Mitha arrived in Chittagong around midday via Helicopter and planned to send a commando platoon from 2 SSG under Lt. Col Sulayman to link up with 20 Baluch before going on to locate Brig. Shaffi.The platoon raced north from the naval base in 2 jeeps and 3 pickup trucks, but were ambushed near Double Mooring, losing 13 members including the CO.

Meanwhile Brig. Shaffi had regrouped his forces at Kumira, and the Pakistani soldiers from Shuvopur had joined him after leaving a rearguard on the bridge. He sent a column east to bypass the Bengali position and linkup with the 20 Baluch, but it was ambushed and forced to withdraw. Another column moving along the seashore was also ambushed, and some Pakistani soldiers lost their way and were killed by Bengali mobs. Bengali civilians had provided warnings which were crucial for setting up the ambushes. The EPR troops at Kumira were almost out of ammunition and fell back 5 miles south to Bhatiari. Captain Bhuyan left for the city to get supplies, but could not return to Kumira. Captain Rafiq finally managed to re-supply the troops, but it took 7 long hours. Later that day Capt. Rafiq left for Ramgarh to seek Indian assistance. In the meantime, EPR troops took control of Feni, thus cutting off the road link between Comilla and Brig. Shaffi. EPR troops at Ramgarh split in two groups, one moved to join the Bengali soldiers near the Chittagong cantonment, while the others made for Shuvopur.

At the Chittagong naval base Brig. Ansari formed a task force of 2 tanks, one infantry battalion and mortars to hold the port area, supported by the 2 SSG commandos and naval ships. He was later reinforced by another battalion flown from Dhaka. Pakistanis made another attack on the EPR HQ without success later in the day.

Major Zia kept his troops at Kalurghat bridge, broadcast a declaration of independence with himself as the provisional head of state in the evening. He later amended the message and declared independence on behalf of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman after consulting with Awami League leaders, and arranged to broadcast the message hourly.The impact of this broadcast, which were picked up by the civilians and isolated Bengali units fighting the Pakistanis, was significant. Gen. Mitha planned to send another commando platoon to blow up the station, but the fate of the first platoon convinced him to send this in speedboats instead of overland.

EPR troops attempted to capture the Shuvopur bridge without success. Pakistani troops had failed to take control of Chittagong as planned, but they had access to airborne reinforcements and no lack of supplies, while Bengali troops were running out of supplies, needed reinforcements and the lack of coordination between Maj. Zia and Captain Rafiq meant their effort were not fully effective. By 27 March, most Bengali troops outside Chittagong city had assembled near the Kalurghat bridge, away from the battle in the city, where Major Zia had set up command.

* March 28*

Pakistani forces at Kumira launched a 3 pronged attack on Bengali forces in the morning, supported by mortars and PNS Rajshahi and Balaghat from the sea. The attack broke through and surviving EPR troops retreated to Fauzdarhut, were they were joined by an EPR platoon. Brig. Shaffi soon began attacking the area around 8 AM. After a clash of 3 hours, Bengali troops fell back to a position near the Haji Camp, which soon came under attack from Brig. Shaffi&#8217;s troops.

The Pakistani commando platoon sent to blow up Kalurghat Radio station was cornered in the Agri Building near the river and wiped out. Gen. Khadim then ordered the 20 Baluch to attack the station, which was repulsed. 20 Baluch also unsuccessfully attempted to dislodge the EPR troops positioned to the north of the cantonment around midday. Pakistani troops managed to push south from the cantonment and take control of the Circuit house (this became the HQ for Gen. Khadim). Pakistani ships and artillery continued pummel Bengali positions, but Pakistani attempts from the naval base to drive the EPR from Agrabad and link up with the 20 Baluch failed, although 20 Baluch and Brig. Shaffi&#8217;s group made contact with each other later in the day.

Captain Bhuyan, who was posted at Kalurghat Radio station by Major Zia, made two Radio announcements. The first one was to observe a blackout, the second was for all Bengali armed forces personnel to gather at Laldighi Moydan. Realizing the danger from the PAF in an open air gathering, the second announcement was cancelled, which was mainly given to gather scattered Bengali troops in the city. Major Zia had not finished his reorganization so 1000+ Bengali troops still sat at Khalurghat. At night, nervous Bengali soldiers at Kalurghat radio station opened up twice at thin air, wasting much of their ammunition. EPR troops from Ramgarh, now commanded by Maj. Shamsuddin (CO 14th EPR Wing) attacked the Pakistani guard on Shuvopur bridge in the evening, wiping out the Pakistani contingent and capturing the bridge.

*March 29*

Brig. Ansari sent a Pakistani detachment from the naval base bypassing EPR positions at Agrabad and captured New market and DC hill in the morning, but they were repulsed at Court Hill. Brig. Shaffi, who had taken control of the Haji camp and linked up with the 20 Baluch, now pushed south to the edge of Agrabad and made contact with Brig. Ansari&#8217;s detachment around evening, much to the relief of Pakistani HQ in Dhaka then captured the Medical college and Pravartak hill as well. Bengali troops fell back to Halishahar, while small groups continued to make hit and run attacks around the city. Bengali forces now held EPR HQ, Dampara, Kalurghat Radio station, Chawkbazar and Court hill, but were isolated from each other and had almost exhausted their ammunition. Major Zia kept bulk of his forces at Kalurghat, while small groups were sent to the city to make hit and run attacks. The initiative now fully rested with the Pakistan forces after 4 days of bitter fighting.

* March 30*

Brig. Ansari began organizing a task force to clear the city, while Brig. Shaffi took overall command with the task of taking out the Radio station, EPR HQ and the Dampara police line immediately. While Pakistan Navy and army shelled Bengali positions, Gen. Mitha again sent a commando platoon to attack Kalurghat Radio Station, which failed. 20 Baluch next attacked towards the station but was repulsed after heavy fighting. Finally the PAF bombed the station, and the transmitters were removed to another location by Bengali personnel. Sporadic clashed took place around the EPR HQ, while Major Zia left Maj. Shawkat in command at Kalurghat Bridge (1000+ Bengali troops were still positioned there) and left for Ramgarh around 7:30 PM to seek Indian assistance.

* March 31*

Brig. Ansari launched a battalion sized attack on the EPR HQ at Halishahar (a strongly fortified area), supported by another battalion and 2 tanks, with PNS Babur and Jahangir and 2 gunboats, plus a mortar battery lending fire support. The buildings at the HQ were leveled by shellfire - inadvertently leading to the death of Pakistani POWs. The battle raged from 7 am to 2 PM, and when the attack stalled around midday, PAF jets bombed the area, and another 3 hours were needed before the base was secured. Bengali survivors fled north through by lanes and left the city altogether.

*Aftermath*

Brig. Ansari next attacked the Dampara police line on March 31 with his task force which fell after a sharp firefight. On April 1 the Pakistani attack on Court hill was repulsed with the loss of a tank. Brig. Ansari launched an attack with 2 companies on April 2, which got stalled. He then sent 4 companies from two directions at Court hill, and captured the place, leaving Bengali troops with control of Chawlkbazar only in Chittagong city. For his services the superseded Brig. Ansari was awarded the &#8216;&#8216;Hilal-i-Jurat&#8217;&#8217; and the rank of Major General.

Between April 3 &#8211;April 6, Pakistani troops carried out mop up operations and fought several sharp street battles in and around Chawlkbazar, and by April 10 they had secured the city. Captain Rafiq and Maj. Zia had secured aid from BSF by April 6, and were busy organizing Bengali forces around Ramgarh. Bengali troops had captured 18 Pakistani officers near Ramgarh including Lt. Col Sheikh and Major Iqbal, all of whom Maj. Zia surrendered to the Indian authorities. Major Shafiullah and Major Khaled Musharraf sent 1 company each to Ramgarh, while Maj. Zia was busy attending the meetings at Teliapara and was absent from Chitagong front. All Bengali troops had left the city to regroup in 2 areas, at Kalurghat (1,000+ Bengali troops of the EPR and EBR), and at Kumira to the north of the city. By the 10th of April, Pakistani troops were poised to launch a three pronged coordinated attack to drive the Bengali troops from their positions.

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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Karachiite said:


> Both sides were wrong but Bangladeshis only took up arms after being screwed badly by West Pakistan. East Pakistan generated most of the revenue but that revenue went straight to West Pakistan. Mujibur Rahman was betrayed and screwed for no reason even though constitutionally he was supposed to become PM but instead was arrested. Bhola Cyclone came and thousands died, millions homeless in East Pakistan. WTF did the government do? Nothing.
> Then Pakistan's Army tried to kill not only the nationalists but also innocent Bengalis, atrocities were committed. This all fuelled separation and rightly so.
> 
> Pakistan broke up when Liaquat Ali Khan was assassinated. After that this country has been in the hands of feudal bastards.
> 
> West Pakistan's Government kept on saying "What can these 4 foot Bengalis? Well they made the whole Pakistani Army surrender.
> 
> The sad part is the Pakistani government didn't learn anything from 1971, they have kept on oppressing certain minority ethnicities.




Those Feudal Bustards did not recognize us as Pakistani. In fact, Bangali ethnicity was the highest contributor of the Pakistani Nation. We have many thing to say. But we can't say anything of our hearts to anyone. A hidden cry is always in all of the Bangladeshi's mind. But nobody understand that. Thanks for recognizing the truth. Work with unity to free your nation. Good luck. It is a very emotional matter of us.

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## kobiraaz

^^^ WHY ARE U USING ABUSIVE LANGUAGE LIKE B A ST A R D?? it is not your living room!


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## kobiraaz

bilalhaider said:


> Let's just move on from the past. Pakistan has moved on. Bangladesh has too, but there are a few people too caught up with it. I don't have any anguish for my Bangladeshi brothers, I want to congratulate them on their independence. Calling the nation of Bangladesh a brother of Pakistan is a stretch though, & I will never accept this. Pakistan is better off this without East Pakistan as well. 1971 taught Pakistan some harsh lessons, & helped become an important nation in the region & the world. I wouldn't have wanted it (1971) any other way to be honest, except the scenario that Bangladesh was never a part of Pakistan in 1947.


ah yah! as a believer of Khilafah, 1971 is a severe blow to me!! 

And you people lost Valuable GDP. if East and West were united, by now Pakistan would have an Aircraft carrier already! East Pakistan is developing rapidly and your tone will be changed when it will become one of 25 largest economies to support a huge military!

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## 53fd

Shiekh Shakib Ahmed, while I regret how the East was treated by the West post 1947; 'Mohajirs', Sindhis, Pakhtuns, Balochis & all other ethnicities had their grievances against Pakistan. But we struggled for our rights, & we managed to get them eventually. Some ethnicities are in the process. Pakistan is still a young country, even the US had a civil war in Gettysburg between the South & the North, when the South wanted to separate from the North. Sindudesh died as quickly as it had started. Despite all the problems the Pakhtun people have had to go through in Pakistan, there has never been one separatist movement from them in Pakistan. Despite all the problems 'Mohajirs' have had to face, there has never been one separatist movement from them. So while I sympathize with all the problems you had to face from West Pakistan, I just want to tell you that others have faced worse than what you did, & struggled le


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## Kambojaric

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> As per history of your ancestry, you are the product of Bangladeshi soil though your ethnicity is Bihari. Bihar is more closer to Bangladesh than that of Pujab. Once upon a time , Bihar was in Brihot Bangladesh or Banglastan. Bihari and Bangali were the same nation during the period Nabob. You have very far relation with the Punjabi region. Why did you leave Bangladesh? Biharis are more closer to us. But maximum Biharis were the betrayer. They were used by Punjabis to kill their nearest Bangali brother just to get extra benefit. I have some relatives who has got the direct evidence. Biharis were of Indian origin. Bangalis provided them shelter. In the contrary, they provided us bullets as a tool of Punjabi who destroyed the integrity of United Pakistan very sensibly to trap Bangladesh with huge population in the upcoming future. Now, the Punjabis are enjoying the extra lands which were the rights of All ancient Pakistanis. They did that sensibly. But they will never be in peace.



Seriously, you do realize that Pakistani doesnt equal to Punjabi right? Was Ayub Khan Punjabi? Bhutto was Punjabi? Mirza Aslam Beg is Punjabi?

Oh and guess what, in this "Punjabi" Pakistan, I, a 3/4 Punjabi, speak Urdu as my first language. Not Punjabi or Serieki or some regional language.


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## 53fd

Faarhan said:


> ah yah! as a believer of Khilafah, 1971 is a severe blow to me!!
> 
> And you people lost Valuable GDP. if East and West were united, by now Pakistan would have an Aircraft carrier already! East Pakistan is developing rapidly and your tone will be changed when it will become one of 25 largest economies to support a huge military!



Bangladesh is still one of the poorest countries in the region. Pakistan might have lost valuable overall GDP (but gained in GDP per capita), but it also lost the overpopulation & poverty levels (no offense) that brought the national average down. And frankly speaking, Bangladesh will always remain a vassal state to India, the geographical realities say it all. 

Now I wish that Bangladesh does as well as Pakistan (or better than Pakistan) in the future, I really do. I have nothing but love & respect for every Bangladeshi I have met in real life. But please don't talk about Pakistan's loss in 1971, we are content with what happened, it would have happened anyway, & I wouldn't wish it any other way (except the scenario in which Bangladesh was never a part of Pakistan in the first place). It was a good thing for Pakistan that it got separated from Bangladesh. While 1971 was demoralizing, it was essential for Pakistan in the long run.


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## 53fd

Bamxa said:


> Seriously, you do realize that Pakistani doesnt equal to Punjabi right? Was Ayub Khan Punjabi? Bhutto was Punjabi? Mirza Aslam Beg is Punjabi?
> 
> Oh and guess what, in this "Punjabi" Pakistan, I, a 3/4 Punjabi, speak Urdu as my first language. Not Punjabi or Serieki or some regional language.



Let Sheikh Sahab live in his delusional world. Despite whatever the Pakistani people (including Punjabis) have had to go through post 1947 (far worse than what people in Bangladesh had to face prior to the war), we have tried to work legally within the system to empower ourselves. Urdu is the national language of Pakistan, Pakhtuns/Punjabis/Sindhis/Balochis/Kashmiris/Hazaras/everyone Pakistan takes pride in our national language, & learns it. No one complains why Urdu is the national language (& other regional languages aren't) like the Bengalis in East Pakistan did. Thank God this chapter is over.

---------- Post added at 03:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 AM ----------




Bamxa said:


> Seriously, you do realize that Pakistani doesnt equal to Punjabi right? Was Ayub Khan Punjabi? Bhutto was Punjabi? Mirza Aslam Beg is Punjabi?
> 
> Oh and guess what, in this "Punjabi" Pakistan, I, a 3/4 Punjabi, speak Urdu as my first language. Not Punjabi or Serieki or some regional language.



Let Sheikh Sahab live in his delusional world. Despite whatever the Pakistani people (including Punjabis) have had to go through post 1947 (far worse than what people in Bangladesh had to face prior to the war), we have tried to work legally within the system to empower ourselves. Urdu is the national language of Pakistan, Pakhtuns/Punjabis/Sindhis/Balochis/Kashmiris/Hazaras/everyone Pakistan takes pride in our national language, & learns it. No one complains why Urdu is the national language (& other regional languages aren't) like the Bengalis in East Pakistan did. Thank God this chapter is over.

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## Always Neutral

RaptorRX707 said:


> Bangladeshis are stupid people, no question. We don't want to re-connect with these dark skin Bangelis.



Love it you do pakistan proud! Just look at skin of the pakistani who tried to illegally marry a bulgarian girl. He makes MJ look like milk. Get a room Mr. Racist with the BNP.


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## Kambojaric

RaptorRX707 said:


> Bangladeshis are stupid people, no question.  We don't want to re-connect with these dark skin Bangelis.



There was no need for that man. Yes there are vast differences amongst us in terms of ethnicity, linguistics and culture but still good ties are favourable with anybody especially Muslims. I agree with Bilal, that the division in 71 was probably for the better for both sides.

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## 53fd

Faarhan said:


> ah yah! as a believer of Khilafah, 1971 is a severe blow to me!!
> 
> And you people lost Valuable GDP. if East and West were united, by now Pakistan would have an Aircraft carrier already! East Pakistan is developing rapidly and your tone will be changed when it will become one of 25 largest economies to support a huge military!



Things in the real world are not done out of brotherhood, they are done out of mutual interests. Let's hope Pakistan & Bangladesh have mutual interests in times to come, that will determine whether Pakistan & Bangladesh have a good relationship or not. Not religion.


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## Don Jaguar

Separation of east was the worst thing happened to pakistan.

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## Zabaniyah

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> As per history of your ancestry, you are the product of Bangladeshi soil though your ethnicity is Bihari. Bihar is more closer to Bangladesh than that of Pujab. Once upon a time , Bihar was in Brihot Bangladesh or Banglastan. Bihari and Bangali were the same nation during the period Nabob. You have very far relation with the Punjabi region. Why did you leave Bangladesh? Biharis are more closer to us. But maximum Biharis were the betrayer. They were used by Punjabis to kill their nearest Bangali brother just to get extra benefit. I have some relatives who has got the direct evidence. Biharis were of Indian origin. Bangalis provided them shelter. In the contrary, they provided us bullets as a tool of Punjabi who destroyed the integrity of United Pakistan very sensibly to trap Bangladesh with huge population in the upcoming future. Now, the Punjabis are enjoying the extra lands which were the rights of All ancient Pakistanis. They did that sensibly. But they will never be in peace.



Learn to type English, and then come back. 



Faarhan said:


> ah yah! as a believer of Khilafah, 1971 is a severe blow to me!!
> 
> And you people lost Valuable GDP. if East and West were united, by now Pakistan would have an Aircraft carrier already! East Pakistan is developing rapidly and your tone will be changed when it will become one of 25 largest economies to support a huge military!



And how would you know? The West Pakistanis were all too concerned about the Kashmir issue. They didn't give enough attention to the strategic security of East Pakistan. 

And having a province 1500 km away from the mainland, and surrounded by a hostile state on all four sides is just unrealistic. 

Therefore, it was difficult, costly, and vulnerable. Especially considering Pakistan started out under very difficult circumstances with all of the main military installations and industries located in whatever was left of British India. 

And I frankly doubt if Pakistan would have been able to afford F-4 Phantoms or F-14 Tomcats (*gasp!*) solely for the Eastern front. So let's be realistic. Yes, even given that Jinnah gave great emphasis on air power. 

Even under such difficulties, Pakistan did well during its existence, and the point is, it still exists with very different geopolitical and strategic relations from that of India or Bangladesh. 

Pakistan has it's unique blend of problems, and we have ours. And if you ask me, the revolution is an unfinished one. Our first task is to get rid of the axis of leadership within the two main political parties in Bangladesh and implement great changes for the better. "Change" is the key word here. 

And we do have our own cultural and historical heritage that's right in front of us. Majority of Bangladeshis just aren't fully realizing that.

The very ideology the Bengali Muslims worked toward was an ultimately defeated one. I still fail to understand why the likes of Jamaat still whine over the issue after all these years.

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## Al-zakir

bilalhaider said:


> But please don't talk about Pakistan's loss in 1971, we are content with what happened, it would have happened anyway, & I wouldn't wish it any other way (except the scenario in which Bangladesh was never a part of Pakistan in the first place). It was a good thing for Pakistan that it got separated from Bangladesh. While 1971 was demoralizing, it was essential for Pakistan in the long run.



If it was good thing and if East Pakistan wasn't important to united Pakistan then what made west Pakistan based military to go into action against separatist groups. Why didn't they just allow East Pakistan go it's way without blood shed. We could have saved many lives(East and West) and humiliation. 

However, I agree that considering the geography and some cultural difference, united Pakistan would not last for long. It would have been better if we could have formed federation after 47. I just don't know what was in the brain of the leadership back then.

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## Al-zakir

Faarhan said:


> ah yah! as a believer of Khilafah, 1971 is a severe blow to me!!
> 
> And you people lost Valuable GDP. if East and West were united, by now Pakistan would have an Aircraft carrier already! East Pakistan is developing rapidly and your tone will be changed when it will become one of 25 largest economies to support a huge military!



You have a valid point. If we could have set our differences aside(both side), worked thing out then united Pakistan would have been one of the strongest among Muslim nations. We would have freed Kashmir and other muslim brothers trap in Indian. After the bloody separation, we shown middle finger to chances of khilafat and Ummah. Lanat on us.

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## Syed Naved

xactly bilal,i agree with al zakir.yes there might be some kinds of difference but also true is this Eastern Wing Not Only Create Pakistan But Also Create Muslim League.On 65 Due To Our Bravery Indian Army Have To Retreat.So We Were Always Important,Moreover We Were The Majority People,Which Mean We're The Main People As We Were The Majority.Federation System Would be the perfect system,because even in india many dont know hindi .culture are differents on every part of india.so if on that time we solve everything with patience ,pakistan would never be brooked.

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## Syed Naved

Al-zakir said:


> You have a valid point. If we could have set our differences aside(both side), worked thing out then united Pakistan would have been one of the strongest among Muslim nations. We would have freed Kashmir and other muslim brothers trap in Indian. After the bloody separation, we shown middle finger to chances of khilafat and Ummah. Lanat on us.


 True.Quaid,Sher E Bengal Both Want United Pakistan.And We're Muslim,We're All From Undevided India.Means Same People & 4m Same Country,So When We Know Everything ,Why Can't we set our differences aside  ...


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## punisher

bilalhaider said:


> Trust me, it was in Pakistan's interests to be separated from Bangladesh. There was only a traumatic effect on the people, but on the whole, it was a good thing for Pakistan. By the way, my father was raised in Bangladesh, & he did his schooling in Chittagong & Dhaka, & is fluent in Bangla. I had a lot of my family there as well before 1971. It was a sad chapter in Pakistan's history, but it's done & over with, & there's no point in thinking about it. In fact, Pakistan has managed to form reasonably warm relations with Bangladesh (something India hasn't been able to do with Pakistan since 1947) & has moved on, it is a certain section of Bangladesh (AL) that wants to exploit the sentiments of the Bangla people, & have been successful in doing that to an extent. The more Bangladesh ponders over the past, the more it reminisces over the trauma, & harder it is to move on for them as a nation.



In 1948, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Pakistan's first Governor-General, declared in Dhaka (then usually spelled Dacca in English) that "Urdu, and only Urdu" would be the common language for all of Pakistan. This proved highly controversial, since Urdu was a language that was only spoken in the West by Muhajirs and in the East by Biharis, although the Urdu language had been promoted as the lingua franca of Indian Muslims by political and religious leaders such as Sir Khwaja Salimullah, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Nawab Viqar-ul-Mulk and Maulvi Abdul Haq. The language was considered a vital element of the Islamic culture for Indian Muslims; Hindi and the Devanagari script were seen as fundamentals of Hindu culture. The majority groups in West Pakistan spoke Punjabi, while the Bengali language was spoken by the vast majority of East Pakistanis. The language controversy eventually reached a point where East Pakistan revolted while the other part of Pakistan remained calm even though Punjabi was spoken by the majority groups of West Pakistan. Several students and civilians lost their lives in a police crackdown on 21 February 1952. The day is revered in Bangladesh and in West Bengal as the Language Martyrs' Day. Later, in memory of the 1952 killings, UNESCO declared 21 February as the International Mother Language Day in 1999


If Pakistani's didn't hurt them why Bangladeshi's (East Pakistani's) dare to fight with West Pakistan. All wars started by Pakistan itself not by us.

---------- Post added at 01:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 AM ----------

The Bangladesh Liberation War (Bengali: Muktijuddho) was an armed conflict pitting West Pakistan against East Pakistan (two halves of one country) and India, that resulted in the secession of East Pakistan as the independent nation of Bangladesh.

The war broke out on 26 March 1971 as army units directed by West Pakistan launched a military operation in East Pakistan against Bengali civilians, students, intelligentsia, and armed personnel who were demanding separation from West Pakistan. Bengali military, paramilitary and civilians formed the Mukti Bahini (or liberation army) and used guerrilla warfare tactics to fight against the West Pakistan army. India provided economic, military and diplomatic support to the Mukti Bahini rebels leading Pakistan to launch Operation Chengiz Khan, a pre-emptive attack on the western border of India which started the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971.



1971 War


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## Al-zakir

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> This is completely rubbish paperwork. All the matters are solved previously. The Punjabis were gainer to achieve the Lahore. We were forced to sacrifice the Kolkata. Pakistan was not the hope of Bangladeshi. But Congress Agent Jinnah has betrayed with Bangladeshi Nation by using fluid by replacing state instead of states in Lahore Proposal which was raised by Sher E Bangla Abul Kashem Fazlul Haque(Basis of Muslim states in this region).As a result Brihot Bangladesh or Banglastan was not gained at 1947. We were prescribed to stay with the artificial country named Pakistan.



You don't know jack and what was going on before 47. If we were struggling for separate Muslim state from individual stance then we would have got zero. It was best option to have united effort to create a separate home land for Muslims. So we have got it. Be happy with what you got and if you have gut then why don't you try to take Kolkata, Bihar, Assam now. Who stoping you? Stop pointing finger at M. Jinnah. You are an ant(pipra) in front of his personality. Thank and pray for his departed soul and don't be so *ehsaan faramosh*. 

By the way, Bangladesh now facing on of the difficult time, our left over soverenghty is in shaky condition, thanks to Ghaddar Awami. Let us save what ever we have left. There aren't any Punjabi around to blame anymore.

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## punisher

Al-zakir said:


> You don't know jack and what was going on before 47. If we were struggling for separate Muslim state from individual stance then we would have got zero. It was best option to have united effort to create a separate home land for Muslims. So we have got it. Be happy with what you got and if you have gut then why don't you try to take Kolkata, Bihar, Assam now. Who stoping you? Stop pointing finger at M. Jinnah. You are an ant(pipra) in front of his personality. Thank and pray for his departed soul and don't be so *ehsaan faramosh*.
> 
> By the way, Bangladesh now facing on of the difficult time, our left over soverenghty is in shaky condition, thanks to Ghaddar Awami. Let us save what ever we have left. There aren't any Punjabi around to blame anymore.



are you talking about cake shaped in Bihar, Assam, Kolkata. Then it's ok. But if You are talking about Indian state Bihar ,Assam and Indian city Kolkata.  you must be living in fools paradise.

Any ways we will stop you.


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## Syed Naved

punisher said:


> In 1948, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Pakistan's first Governor-General, declared in Dhaka (then usually spelled Dacca in English) that "Urdu, and only Urdu" would be the common language for all of Pakistan. This proved highly controversial, since Urdu was a language that was only spoken in the West by Muhajirs and in the East by Biharis, although the Urdu language had been promoted as the lingua franca of Indian Muslims by political and religious leaders such as Sir Khwaja Salimullah, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Nawab Viqar-ul-Mulk and Maulvi Abdul Haq. The language was considered a vital element of the Islamic culture for Indian Muslims; Hindi and the Devanagari script were seen as fundamentals of Hindu culture. The majority groups in West Pakistan spoke Punjabi, while the Bengali language was spoken by the vast majority of East Pakistanis. The language controversy eventually reached a point where East Pakistan revolted while the other part of Pakistan remained calm even though Punjabi was spoken by the majority groups of West Pakistan. Several students and civilians lost their lives in a police crackdown on 21 February 1952. The day is revered in Bangladesh and in West Bengal as the Language Martyrs' Day. Later, in memory of the 1952 killings, UNESCO declared 21 February as the International Mother Language Day in 1999
> 
> 
> If Pakistani's didn't hurt them why Bangladeshi's (East Pakistani's) dare to fight with West Pakistan. All wars started by Pakistan itself not by us.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 01:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 AM ----------
> 
> The Bangladesh Liberation War (Bengali: Muktijuddho) was an armed conflict pitting West Pakistan against East Pakistan (two halves of one country) and India, that resulted in the secession of East Pakistan as the independent nation of Bangladesh.
> 
> The war broke out on 26 March 1971 as army units directed by West Pakistan launched a military operation in East Pakistan against Bengali civilians, students, intelligentsia, and armed personnel who were demanding separation from West Pakistan. Bengali military, paramilitary and civilians formed the Mukti Bahini (or liberation army) and used guerrilla warfare tactics to fight against the West Pakistan army. India provided economic, military and diplomatic support to the Mukti Bahini rebels leading Pakistan to launch Operation Chengiz Khan, a pre-emptive attack on the western border of India which started the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971.
> 
> 
> 
> 1971 War


 First Of All Shukriya.Yes Our Ancestor Used Urdu,Personaly I Myself From A nawab & Jamindar Family.So I Know About This And Heard Many Things About Our Ancestor.We Used Urdu Not Because Only Islam But Also Because Most Of The Syed,Nabab Were From Iraqi Origin.So We Love Islamic Culture And Different Then Rest .But Yes ! We Also Know Bangla And Dont Have Any Hatred For It.
It Is Also true jinnah Said So.Because The Theme Of Partition Was " 1 for Muslim 1 for Hindu".And when Pakistan created like hindi he want that(urdu) as common language.As the main motive was all the muslim from both wings will be united .and i think ,Quaid want this ta'kii dono part mein kisi bhi type ki difference na rahein on all aspect but he failed to make it understand.But However Later Bengali get it's official language honour.But what actualy need on that time was bring urdu culture closer slowly to us.like now we all know hindi language,speak on it sometimes.if Jinnah said ,"URDU WOULD BE THE STATE LANGUAGE OF PAKISTAN AS WELL AS HINDI ON INDIA.BUT PEOPLE WOULD GET EVERY RIGHT TO USE THEIR REGIONAL LANGUAGE LIKE ON INDIA TAMIL ALPHABET USED IN KERALA,BANGLA ON WEST....." This misunderstanding would never create.Infact I think Quaid yehi bolna chaha,lakin iska galat matlab nikala gaya.quaid ka matlab ye tha urdu would be state language usi tarha jis tarha hindi on india.kiyun ki india mein hindi speaker very rare,a lot of people dont even undrstnd it still.


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## Al-zakir

punisher said:


> are you talking about cake shaped in Bihar, Assam, Kolkata. Then it's ok. But if You are talking about Indian state Bihar ,Assam and Indian city Kolkata.  you must be living in fools paradise.
> 
> Any ways we will stop you.



Abbey baykuf, I was making a point to fake Sheikh. Read and try to understand what I was trying to say.


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## 53fd

I maintain East Pakistan had greater affinity towards their ethnic identity than their nationalistic one. The Punjabis, Pakhtuns, Sindhis, Balochis, Kashmiris, Hazaras have never demanded their languages be the national languages of Pakistan. They have learned & adopted Urdu, & accept Urdu as their national pride. They proudly accept & speak Urdu today. 

Bangladesh was never part of the original plan of Pakistan, & I wish Bangladesh had never been part of Pakistan in 1947. If 1971 had not happened in 1971, it would have happened later. It was never a feasible model having the East surrounded by enemy territory in all four directions, & being separated from it by 1500 miles.

Pakistan is a young country, it is still shaping itself up everyday. Even the US had a civil war in Gettysburg where the South wanted to separate from the North & form a separate nation. The Sindhi, 'Mohajir', Pakhtun, Balochi, Hazara, even the Punjabis have faced severe injustices in this country (sometimes more than the Bangla people), but there has hardly been any secessionist movements, on the same level as the Bangla people. The Bangla people let their justified grievances against W.Pakistan be exploited by India in 1969 & 1970 to become secessionist ones, & that is what caused trouble. 

The Pakistani people brought the Musharraf dictatorship down a few years ago, they did not start the secessionist movement like the Bangla people did. The Pakistani people today, despite the various grievances they have had, have always thought of the importance of the country & their nationalistic identity over their ethnic one, this is the difference between the Bangla people & the Pakistani people. The Pakistani people have used legal means to empower themselves, they feel Pakistan is their country & they own a part of this country.


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## eastwatch

Al-zakir said:


> You don't know jack and what was going on before 47. If we were struggling for separate Muslim state from individual stance then we would have got zero. It was best option to have united effort to create a separate home land for Muslims. So we have got it. Be happy with what you got and if you have gut then why don't you try to take Kolkata, Bihar, Assam now. Who stoping you? Stop pointing finger at M. Jinnah. You are an ant(pipra) in front of his personality. Thank and pray for his departed soul and don't be so *ehsaan faramosh*.


 
You are hundred percent right when you say that without an united effort by the Indian Muslims there would not have been a separate country where muslims formed the majority. An ill effort to create a Joint independent Bengal would have bursted on the faces of those individuals who were talkg about it. Jt. Bengal effort was a Provincialism that no one would have supported. But, a Pakistan movement was successful. Why some ignorants should still talk about Jt. Bengal when the Bangali Hindus opposded it?

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## 53fd

I wish Pakistan & Bangladesh have very good relations. Pakistan has learned valuable lessons from 1971, it has built up its defenses greatly, to the point that if some nation tries to do a 1971 in Pakistan again, it would be obliterated from the face of this earth before that happens. Even though OBL was found in Pakistan, the US did not dare to attack Pakistan. Pakistan was not capable of protecting itself in 1971, it took care of its vulnerabilities after it, & MashAllah today, it can fully take care of itself & its fate. Pakistan has grown economically & politically as well, & is improving itself everyday. 

Pakistan is as united as ever today, united we stand & divided we fall (we saw this in 1971). This is what Pew Global had to say about Pakistan:



> The nation-state is of great significance to Pakistanis, and despite important ethnic and regional differences, national identity is strong throughout the country. *Overall, 89% say they think of themselves first as Pakistani, rather than as a member of their ethnic group.*



We have accepted Urdu as our national language, we have pride in it, & we speak it with pride. This is the difference between the people of Pakistan, & the Bangla people in East Pakistan.


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## justanobserver

bilalhaider said:


> Pakistan is as united as ever today, united we stand & divided we fall (we saw this in 1971). This is what Pew Global had to say about Pakistan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nation-state is of great significance to Pakistanis, and despite important ethnic and regional differences, national identity is strong throughout the country. Overall, 89% say they think of themselves first as Pakistani, rather than as a member of their ethnic group
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have accepted Urdu as our national language, we have pride in it, & we speak it with pride. This is the difference between the people of Pakistan, & the Bangla people in East Pakistan.
Click to expand...


Right. According to this recent (2011) *Gallup* Survey
Muslims first, Pakistani distant second say majority: Gallup poll &#8211; The Express Tribune



> The results of the poll showed that a significant majority of Pakistanis (59 per cent) choose to identify themselves as Muslims first.
> *A little less than a quarter of the population (22 per cent) considers being Pakistani as its primary identity*, while 10 per cent put their provincial identity first and seven per cent chose to identify themselves as human beings first.

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## 53fd

justanobserver said:


> Right. According to this recent (2011) *Gallup* Survey
> Muslims first, Pakistani distant second say majority: Gallup poll &#8211; The Express Tribune



The poll is flawed, because the Muslim/Islamic identity is intertwined with the national Pakistani identity, it is not a distinct identity. Pakistan is the Islamic republic of Pakistan. And the other poll was comparing national identity to ethnic identity, not Islamic identity. Even your poll showed that only 10% of Pakistani put their provincial identity first. The fact that both the Pew Global & the Gallup poll shows 10-11% preference for provincial/ethnic identity shows that Pakistan consider their Muslim identity same as their national Pakistani identity.


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## Al-zakir

bilalhaider said:


> I maintain East Pakistan had greater affinity towards their ethnic identity than their nationalistic one. The Punjabis, Pakhtuns, Sindhis, Balochis, Kashmiris, Hazaras have never demanded their languages be the national languages of Pakistan. They have learned & adopted Urdu, & accept Urdu as their national pride. They proudly accept & speak Urdu today.



Here are some fact about Urdu in East Pakistan. 

1-Historically, unlike northern British India, in Bengal Urdu was confined among elite class and religious institution. Sometime elite class didn't allow this language to flourish among common man. You can call it a "racist" act. 

2- There were a strong presence of Bengali intellectual in East Pakistan. They played crucial role to keep this language away to preserve their own interest.

3-Unlike West Pakistan, East Pakistan had 20% Hindu population and they were strictly against Urdu language due to Arabic scripture. 

4-Most teachers were from Hindu background so they also played key role to emotionally blackmail Muslim masses in the name of mother toung to preserve their interest. 

Over all comon Muslims were played in the hand of Hindus and Tagore loving Islamic named mushrik intellectual to preserve their interest. Mother tongue has nothing to do with it. I am personally fluent in Urdu and Bangla. I can personally conclude that with given time Urdu would have replace Bangla in East Pakistan.

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## Capt.Popeye

Al-zakir said:


> Over all comon Muslims were played in the hand of Hindus and Tagore loving Islamic named mushrik intellectual to preserve their interest. Mother tongue has nothing to do with it. I am personally fluent in Urdu and Bangla. I can personally conclude that with given time Urdu would have replace Bangla in East Pakistan.



But the real conclusion came about eventually in 1971.
So it has become *"itee"* (and a redundant argument actually) since then.


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> I maintain East Pakistan had greater affinity towards their ethnic identity than their nationalistic one. The Punjabis, Pakhtuns, Sindhis, Balochis, Kashmiris, Hazaras have never demanded their languages be the national languages of Pakistan. They have learned & adopted Urdu, & accept Urdu as their national pride. They proudly accept & speak Urdu today.
> 
> Bangladesh was never part of the original plan of Pakistan, & I wish Bangladesh had never been part of Pakistan in 1947. If 1971 had not happened in 1971, it would have happened later. It was never a feasible model having the East surrounded by enemy territory in all four directions, & being separated from it by 1500 miles.
> 
> Pakistan is a young country, it is still shaping itself up everyday. Even the US had a civil war in Gettysburg where the South wanted to separate from the North & form a separate nation. The Sindhi, 'Mohajir', Pakhtun, Balochi, Hazara, even the Punjabis have faced severe injustices in this country (sometimes more than the Bangla people), but there has hardly been any secessionist movements, on the same level as the Bangla people. The Bangla people let their justified grievances against W.Pakistan be exploited by India in 1969 & 1970 to become secessionist ones, & that is what caused trouble.
> 
> The Pakistani people brought the Musharraf dictatorship down a few years ago, they did not start the secessionist movement like the Bangla people did. The Pakistani people today, despite the various grievances they have had, have always thought of the importance of the country & their nationalistic identity over their ethnic one, this is the difference between the Bangla people & the Pakistani people. The Pakistani people have used legal means to empower themselves, they feel Pakistan is their country & they own a part of this country.


 
So basically it is the fault of those evil Bengalis because they refused to be kicked around like you kick others around. Got it. They should have enjoyed the rape, not prevent it. Those bloody Bengalis. 

Btw, thanks for acknowledging that, that half-@ss Two Nation Theory is, well, half @ssed after all. I have a feeling, you probably didn't think it all the way through when you wrote:

_'Bangladesh was never part of the original plan of Pakistan, & I wish Bangladesh had never been part of Pakistan in 1947. If 1971 had not happened in 1971, it would have happened later. It was never a feasible model having the East surrounded by enemy territory in all four directions, & being separated from it by 1500 miles.'_

PS: Copied your post so you don't edit it later.

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## Kazhugu

bilalhaider said:


> The poll is flawed, because the Muslim/Islamic identity is intertwined with the national Pakistani identity, it is not a distinct identity. Pakistan is the Islamic republic of Pakistan. And the other poll was comparing national identity to ethnic identity, not Islamic identity. Even your poll showed that only 10% of Pakistani put their provincial identity first. The fact that both the Pew Global & the Gallup poll shows 10-11% preference for provincial/ethnic identity shows that* Pakistan consider their Muslim identity same as their national Pakistani identity*.



ahaan....being muslim is not being pakistani....either you are bs ing here to us...or you genuinely dont know the difference...

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## akash57

Syed Naved said:


> addressing all the bangladeshi traitor is just like what some kind of brainwashed people (mujib's supporter) say about pakistan.they say that all the pakis are thieves ,criminals also said that people who support pakistan or pakistani people that is a crime.but not all of us like them.we create muslim league ,we create pakistan,then how can we wish to destroy it ?? it was mujib,india and their brainwashed student wings and indian trained "mukti".and this mukti was brutal more then anything.if mujib and his daughters political party not get support from india we would threw them out of our nation.and yes,we dont consider you our enemy but brothers but yes we hate bhutto,we hate yahya,muzib and india above all. and yes we respect jinnah.and what happened was not allah's but a traitor named mujib and his friend india's wish and conspiracy.*and if we were traitors,indian agents ,we would never treat u'r people as our brother,we would never arise against india and muzibs perty.what we just need is to restore our brotherly relation ,coz it's not quaids dream but according to our islam ,all the muslims are brother.so why we hate each other instead of sorting problems* . from my point of view for ones crime why would we punish others member of his/her family , they are innocent.so yes, I love pakistan and pakistany people xcept 71's war criminal from both side.coz crime is a crime,but for that innocents mustn't be punished.sorry ,if say something hursh or wrong



&#8206;"The believers are but brothers, so make settlement between your brothers. And fear Allah that you may receive mercy."

-- Surah Al-Hujurat [Qur'an-e-Kareem 49:10]

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## eastwatch

akash57 said:


> &#8206;"The believers are but brothers, so make settlement between your brothers. And fear Allah that you may receive mercy."
> 
> -- Surah Al-Hujurat [Qur'an-e-Kareem 49:10]


 
Yah, we followed the Quranic teachings throughout the 23 years of united Pakistan, but, in return, we were kicked around when claimed for the fair share of the wealth of the country. The result was the dismembering of Pakistan into two. So, why you guys did not teach the west Pakistani politicians about the Quranic teachings, too.

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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> So basically it is the fault of those evil Bengalis because they refused to be kicked around like you kick others around. Got it. They should have enjoyed the rape, not prevent it. Those bloody Bengalis.



There was brutality on both sides. There were allegedly 1 million Biharis killed (by Mukti Bahini terrorists trained by India) in Bangladesh as well. But the problems did not arise in 1971, the problems started in end 1969 starting 1970 after Mujib won the elections, when India exploited the genuine grievances of the Bengali people, & converted them into secessionist ones, instead of looking to overthrow the government in West Pakistan, like the people of Pakistan overthrew the Musharraf regime a few years ago. 



> Btw, thanks for acknowledging that, that half-@ss Two Nation Theory is, well, half @ssed after all. I have a feeling, you probably didn't think it all the way through when you wrote:



What does the two nation theory have to do with this? The original 1940 resolution did not have Bangladesh as part of Pakistan. But it did become part of Pakistan (unfortunately) later, when Muslim majority areas would be part of Pakistan, & other ones would form India.

---------- Post added at 10:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 AM ----------




Kazhugu said:


> ahaan....being muslim is not being pakistani....either you are bs ing here to us...or you genuinely dont know the difference...



Pakistan is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, so it is the same in the eyes of the people. Plain & simple.

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## 53fd

Well, I can see the Indians are acting like themselves, & trying to disrupt a genuine conversation here.


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## LaBong

As always Pakistanis are trying to hide behind troll fatwas when faced with pointed questions.

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## Al-zakir

bilalhaider said:


> Well, I can see the Indians are acting like themselves, & trying to disrupt a genuine conversation here.



Bilal Bhai, I have mingle with Pakistanis a good part of my life(usa) since high school days. Perhaps, common language Urdu played a key role. I have nothing but good experience. 71 comes here and there but not a big deal anymore. From my personal experience(both side), I can conclude that Bangladeshi and Pakistani is ready to move forward and build a strong relation for greater good but like prior to 71 and now, India is playing a vital role to keep us apart. We know the reason yet we hopeless because they have agents working for them from Bd soil known as Awami league.

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## notsuperstitious

Al-zakir said:


> Bilal Bhai, I have mingle with Pakistanis a good part of my life(usa) since high school days. Perhaps, common language Urdu played a key role. I have nothing but good experience. 71 comes here and there but not a big deal anymore. From my personal experience(both side), I can conclude that Bangladeshi and Pakistani is ready to move forward and build a strong relation for greater good but like prior to 71 and now, India is playing a vital role to keep us apart. We know the reason yet we hopeless because they have agents working for them from Bd soil known as Awami league.



Thats plain dishonest. As a bengali culture hating non bengali, your attempt to whitewash the facts and blame the kaffir india is expected. In your posts you always call bengali traditions and people who follow rabindra sangeet etc (Rabindra was born and died in british india) as mushriks. However a large no of bengalis (and bengalis form a vast majority in BD, not arabs like you) would like to follow their traditions, speak bengali and write bengali and listen to rabindra sangeet. This has NOTHING to do with India, its a problem for bengalis. And the same problem existed before 1971 too, as the short, dark, non martial, hindu language speaking, hindu saree and dhoti wearing bengalis were not good enough. That issue is genuine, your whitewashing and bilal's thanking you does not help.

Here's the REALITY

You are an urdu speaker in BD
Bilal is an urdu speaker in Pakistan

First you sort out your identity issues in your own countries, before claiming to represent bengalis and punjabis and whitewashing the countless dead from 1971. Blaming India a typical trick to blame the kaffir, something ingrained in your childhood indoctrination.

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## LaBong

^Couldn't have say it better myself, precise and separates the wheat from the chaff.

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## punisher

Al-zakir said:


> Abbey baykuf, I was making a point to fake Sheikh. Read and try to understand what I was trying to say.


 

Mind your language. don't show your low attitude. becarefull


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> There was brutality on both sides. There were allegedly 1 million Biharis killed (by Mukti Bahini terrorists trained by India) in Bangladesh as well. But the problems did not arise in 1971, the problems started in end 1969 starting 1970 after Mujib won the elections, when India exploited the genuine grievances of the Bengali people, & converted them into secessionist ones, instead of looking to overthrow the government in West Pakistan, like the people of Pakistan overthrew the Musharraf regime a few years ago.


You mean to say that the evil Bharatis somehow convinced Yahya Khan and his sidekick, Bhutto, to deny Mujib his constitutional right to be the head of Pakistan, and then, even in spite of severe provocation, when that bloody Mujib, like a pansy, ended up demanding a mere autonomy, not secession, those Bharatis again convinced the dynamic duo to massacre the AL members, and then the Hindus, so that those Bengalis are forced to start demanding secession after all.

Wonderful.



> What does the two nation theory have to do with this?


Just as I thought. Didn't really think it through. Innit?



> The original 1940 resolution did not have Bangladesh as part of Pakistan. But it did become part of Pakistan (unfortunately) later, when Muslim majority areas would be part of Pakistan, & other ones would form India.


I'm going to bet both my testicles that you haven't read Lahore Resolution, or if you have read it, it flew right above your head. Here's an excerpt (Para 3 of the Resolution):


_'Resolved that it is the considered view of this Session of the All-India Muslim League that no constitutional plan would be workable in this country or acceptable to the Muslims unless it is designated on the following basic principle, viz. that geographically contiguous units are demarcated into regions which should be so constituted with such territorial readjustments as may be necessary, that the areas in which the Muslims are numerically in a majority as in the North-Western and *Eastern Zones of India* should be grouped to constitute "Independent States" in which the Constituent Units shall be autonomous and sovereign'_​

No. I take that back. You are correct. It doesn't say Bangladesh. It says 'Eastern Zones of India'. Silly me.

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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> You mean to say that the evil Bharatis somehow convinced Yahya Khan and his sidekick, Bhutto, to deny Mujib his constitutional right to be the head of Pakistan, and then, even in spite of severe provocation, when that bloody Mujib, like a pansy, ended up demanding a mere autonomy, not secession, those Bharatis again convinced the dynamic duo to massacre the AL members, and then the Hindus, so that those Bengalis are forced to start demanding secession after all.
> 
> Wonderful.



Where have I said it was not the fault of Bhutto & Yahya Khan. I just said that the Bhartis exploited the genuine grievances of the Bengali people in 1969 & 1970, & converted them into secessionist ones. 



> I'm going to bet both my testicles that you haven't read Lahore Resolution, or if you have read it, it flew right above your head. Here's an excerpt (Para 3 of the Resolution):



It said independent *states*, it didn't say "an independent state". Just look at the name "Pakistan" which was proposed at the time: P-Punjab, A-Afghania (NWFP), K-Kashmir, S-Sindh, tan-Balochistan. Bangladesh was not supposed to be a part of Pakistan, it only joined at the end. That did not mean Bangladesh was not fighting for independence, but it was not part of Pakistan's masterplan until the end.


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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> You mean to say that the evil Bharatis somehow convinced Yahya Khan and his sidekick, Bhutto, to deny Mujib his constitutional right to be the head of Pakistan, and then, even in spite of severe provocation, when that bloody Mujib, like a pansy, ended up demanding a mere autonomy, not secession, those Bharatis again convinced the dynamic duo to massacre the AL members, and then the Hindus, so that those Bengalis are forced to start demanding secession after all.
> 
> Wonderful.
> 
> 
> Just as I thought. Didn't really think it through. Innit?
> 
> 
> I'm going to bet both my testicles that you haven't read Lahore Resolution, or if you have read it, it flew right above your head. Here's an excerpt (Para 3 of the Resolution):
> 
> 
> _'Resolved that it is the considered view of this Session of the All-India Muslim League that no constitutional plan would be workable in this country or acceptable to the Muslims unless it is designated on the following basic principle, viz. that geographically contiguous units are demarcated into regions which should be so constituted with such territorial readjustments as may be necessary, that the areas in which the Muslims are numerically in a majority as in the North-Western and *Eastern Zones of India* should be grouped to constitute "Independent States" in which the Constituent Units shall be autonomous and sovereign'_​
> 
> No. I take that back. You are correct. It doesn't say Bangladesh. It says 'Eastern Zones of India'. Silly me.



Where does the 1940 Lahore Resolution statement even say East Pakistan would be a part of West Pakistan, & both would be one nation?


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## eastwatch

bilalhaider said:


> It said independent *states*, it didn't say "an independent state". Just look at the name "Pakistan" which was proposed at the time: P-Punjab, A-Afghania (NWFP), K-Kashmir, S-Sindh, tan-Balochistan. Bangladesh was not supposed to be a part of Pakistan, it only joined at the end. That did not mean Bangladesh was not fighting for independence, but it was not part of Pakistan's masterplan until the end.



You are mistaken in the naming of the muslim majority country that was named Pakistan. Allama Iqbal was the originator of this word, 'PAKISTAN.' He was a dreamer and he dreamed of a Muslim country consisting of not only the muslim majority paart (s) os India. He also included other neighbouring countries. Well, it was only a dream and he first thought of Pak as pure and (i)Stan as the land. In total the meaning was the Land of Pure.

But, then he thought, P stands for Punjab, A stands for Afghanistan, K for Kashmir, I for Iran, S for Sindh, T for Turkey, A for Afghaniya of NWFP and N for baluchistaN. So, there is no Afghanistan, Iran or Turkey in Pakistan, but, Bengal was included. However, the name Pakistan was not changed. So, your claim is based on wrong information. 

The name Pakistan was coined by Allma Iqbal, but it was Sher-e-Bangal A.K. Fazlul Haque, the then Chief Minister of Bengal who proposed Pakistan Resolution in Lahore in 1940. So, you are wrong in many counts about the creation of Pakistan. You just do not know that Bangali and Bihari Muslims were at the forefront of Pakistan movement, when Punjabis and other now Pakistanis were ready to live in an united India.

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## LaBong

bilalhaider said:


> Where does the 1940 Lahore Resolution statement even say East Pakistan would be a part of West Pakistan, & both would be one nation?



How does the *Two Nation* theory work with multiple Nations?


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## LaBong

bilalhaider said:


> Where have I said it was not the fault of Bhutto & Yahya Khan. I just said that the Bhartis exploited the genuine grievances of the Bengali people in 1969 & 1970, & converted them into secessionist ones.



Yeah right, it was Indian Army soldiers in PA uniform who carried out Op Searchlight.

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## Kazhugu

bilalhaider said:


> Pakistan is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, so it is the same in the eyes of the people. Plain & simple.



it is not so simple my dear.....if they think they are muslims...then they should not believe in nation states....the reason why deoband opposed the creation of pakistan....so i think the pakistanis are confused....


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## Kazhugu

bilalhaider said:


> It said independent *states*, it didn't say "an independent state". *Just look at the name "Pakistan" which was proposed at the time: P-Punjab, A-Afghania (NWFP), K-Kashmir, S-Sindh, tan-Balochistan.* Bangladesh was not supposed to be a part of Pakistan, it only joined at the end. That did not mean Bangladesh was not fighting for independence, but it was not part of Pakistan's masterplan until the end.



u clearly dont know the history behind partition as is evident........now tell me what ATM stands for...any time money..kya ?


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## Don Jaguar

eastwatch said:


> You are mistaken in the naming of the muslim majority country that was named Pakistan. Allama Iqbal was the originator of this word, 'PAKISTAN.' He was a dreamer and he dreamed of a Muslim country consisting of not only the muslim majority paart (s) os India. He also included other neighbouring countries. Well, it was only a dream and he first thought of Pak as pure and (i)Stan as the land. In total the meaning was the Land of Pure.
> 
> But, then he thought, P stands for Punjab, A stands for Afghanistan, K for Kashmir, I for Iran, S for Sindh, T for Turkey, A for Afghaniya of NWFP and N for baluchistaN. So, there is no Afghanistan, Iran or Turkey in Pakistan, but, Bengal was included. However, the name Pakistan was not changed. So, your claim is based on wrong information.
> 
> The name Pakistan was coined by Allma Iqbal, but it was Sher-e-Bangal A.K. Fazlul Haque, the then Chief Minister of Bengal who proposed Pakistan Resolution in Lahore in 1940. So, you are wrong in many counts about the creation of Pakistan. You just do not know that Bangali and Bihari Muslims were at the forefront of Pakistan movement, when Punjabis and other now Pakistanis were ready to live in an united India.



What nonsense all and all wrong.

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## patna_ke_presley

bilalhaider said:


> I maintain East Pakistan had greater affinity towards their ethnic identity than their nationalistic one. The Punjabis, Pakhtuns, Sindhis, Balochis, Kashmiris, Hazaras have never demanded their languages be the national languages of Pakistan. They have learned & adopted Urdu, & accept Urdu as their national pride. They proudly accept & speak Urdu today.
> 
> Bangladesh was never part of the original plan of Pakistan, & I wish Bangladesh had never been part of Pakistan in 1947. If 1971 had not happened in 1971, it would have happened later. It was never a feasible model having the East surrounded by enemy territory in all four directions, & being separated from it by 1500 miles.
> 
> Pakistan is a young country, it is still shaping itself up everyday. Even the US had a civil war in Gettysburg where the South wanted to separate from the North & form a separate nation. The Sindhi, 'Mohajir', Pakhtun, Balochi, Hazara, even the Punjabis have faced severe injustices in this country (sometimes more than the Bangla people), but there has hardly been any secessionist movements, on the same level as the Bangla people. The Bangla people let their justified grievances against W.Pakistan be exploited by India in 1969 & 1970 to become secessionist ones, & that is what caused trouble.
> 
> The Pakistani people brought the Musharraf dictatorship down a few years ago, they did not start the secessionist movement like the Bangla people did. The Pakistani people today, despite the various grievances they have had, have always thought of the importance of the country & their nationalistic identity over their ethnic one, this is the difference between the Bangla people & the Pakistani people. The Pakistani people have used legal means to empower themselves, they feel Pakistan is their country & they own a part of this country.



Because it is difficult for Bengalis to learn Hindi and Urdu. Bengalis find even Hindi as difficult when there is so much common vocabulary, forget Urdu which is highly Persianized.

But it was a joke, Bengali formed 55% of population and still they had to take permission from minority west Pakistanis for Constitutional language, permitting Bengali script or Printing Bengali language on notes.

In India, we majority North-Indians made our mother tongue Hindi as official language with Devanagari as script. We dominated in India and not any minority group.


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## punisher

bilalhaider said:


> Where have I said it was not the fault of Bhutto & Yahya Khan. I just said that the Bhartis exploited the genuine grievances of the Bengali people in 1969 & 1970, & converted them into secessionist ones.
> 
> 
> 
> It said independent *states*, it didn't say "an independent state". Just look at the name "Pakistan" which was proposed at the time: P-Punjab, A-Afghania (NWFP), K-Kashmir, S-Sindh, tan-Balochistan. Bangladesh was not supposed to be a part of Pakistan, it only joined at the end. That did not mean Bangladesh was not fighting for independence, but it was not part of Pakistan's masterplan until the end.



hmmm Then what about. United states of America. Letters is just 21 but states 50......

Then how can you claim that Pakistan is trying to Liberate Kashmir. By the your logic, Pakistan have plans to occupy Kashmir. That's why you people attacked When maharaja decision is pending.


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## Syed Naved

Don Jaguar said:


> What nonsense all and all wrong.


 jaguar dont be angry,in some content it's true.
If sher e bangla dont proposed this resolution pakistan never would create.bengal was included pakistan,but problem was muzib and suhrawardy they want to join with india.this is complete history in short.


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## Md Akmal

Don Jaguar said:


> What nonsense all and all wrong.



@ Iqbal was a lavish poet but not a politician. Most of the time he was in Europe. His wife was also a foreigner.

@ My dear Don Jaguar, during the general election of 1946 Muslim Leaque only got majority in Bengal. In Punjab and Sind they were doing "Unionist" politics. In north west province, I think Congress formed the govt. Bengal played a key role in forming Pakistan. Iqbal's Pakistan was only dream. " Lalke lenge Pakistan", I tell you really people fought for it and sacrified their life. Punjab's have given blood similarly Bengal has also given blood and side by side Bihares also.

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## 53fd

Md Akmal said:


> @ Iqbal was a lavish poet but not a politician. Most of the time he was in Europe. His give was also a foreigner.
> 
> @ My dear Don Jaguar, during the general election of 1946 Muslim Leaque only got majority in Bengal. In Punjab and Sind they were doing "Unionist" politics. In north west province, I think Congress formed the govt. Bengal played a key role in forming Pakistan. Iqbal's Pakistan was only dream. " Lalke lenge Pakistan", I tell you really people fought for it and sacrified their life. Punjab's have given blood similarly Bengal has also given blood and side by side Bihares also.



Bengal played a big role in the Pakistan movement, but right at the end. The 1940 Lahore Resolution did not explicitly talk about a sovereign nation Pakistan along with East Pakistan, it talked about the empowerment of Muslims & the separate identity of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent.


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> Where have I said it was not the fault of Bhutto & Yahya Khan. I just said that the Bhartis exploited the genuine grievances of the Bengali people in 1969 & 1970, & converted them into secessionist ones.


The East Bengalis never wanted to secede from Pakistan until the massacre on 26th March, 1971. Before that, they first demanded their legitimate constitutional right, and then partial autonomy. The evil 'Bhartis' didn't turn them secessionist. Your people did.



> It said independent *states*, it didn't say "an independent state". Just look at the name "Pakistan" which was proposed at the time: P-Punjab, A-Afghania (NWFP), K-Kashmir, S-Sindh, tan-Balochistan. Bangladesh was not supposed to be a part of Pakistan, it only joined at the end. That did not mean Bangladesh was not fighting for independence, but it was not part of Pakistan's masterplan until the end.





bilalhaider said:


> Where does the 1940 Lahore Resolution statement even say East Pakistan would be a part of West Pakistan, & both would be one nation?


The language of Lahore resolution is indeed contradictory. I'll grant you that. It says that:


_'...*the areas* in which the Muslims are numerically in a majority as in the North-Western and Eastern Zones of India *should be grouped to constitute "Independent States" in which the Constituent Units shall be autonomous and sovereign*.'_​

In the words of B.R.Ambedkar (in his _'Pakistan or The Partition of India'_):


_'Does the Resolution contemplate that *these Muslim provinces, after being incorporated into States, will remain each an independent sovereign State or will they be joined together into one constitution as members of a single State, federal or unitary?* On this point, the Resolution is rather ambiguous, if not self-contradictory. It speaks of grouping the zones into "Independent States in which the Constituent Units shall be autonomous and sovereign." *The use of the term "Constituent Units" indicates that what is contemplated is a Federation. If that is so, then, the use of the word "sovereign" as an attribute of the Units is out of place. Federation of Units and sovereignty of Units are contradictions. It may be that what is contemplated is a confederation.*'_​

That acronym 'Pakistan' was coined, or rather conjured up, by Rehmat Ali, for whom Pakistan excluded Bengal. However Muslim League extended it to include Bengal. Allama Iqbal, the originator of the term had entirely different idea. He was talking of pan-Islamic area, which he called the 'Land of the Pure' ('Pak' means pure, 'Sthan' means land). Because of this force fitting, an inconsistency remains in the name. Kashmir was never part of British India and therefore legally outside the scope of any kind of grouping (or partition) that was sought in Lahore resolution. 

Bangladesh (or East Paksitan) was very much a part of Muslim League's masterplan from the beginning (assuming Lahore Resolution as beginning).

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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> The language of Lahore resolution is indeed contradictory. I'll grant you that. It says that:



The Muslim League did not demand a separate state for Muslims till the right end. The Lahore Resolution did not talk about a sovereign nation called Pakistan, it only talked about the separate identity Muslims had from Hindus, & the Lahore Resolution 1940 was used as a means to empower them. Jinnah had always favored a one-nation concept, but he wanted certain reservations to be given to Muslims, & he wanted strong, autonomous provinces/states (like Spain has these days) & a weak center. There was never a separate concept of a separate Muslim nation in the Lahore Resolution 1940.

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## akash57

eastwatch said:


> Yah, we followed the Quranic teachings throughout the 23 years of united Pakistan, but, in return, we were kicked around when claimed for the fair share of the wealth of the country. The result was the dismembering of Pakistan into two. So, why you guys did not teach the west Pakistani politicians about the Quranic teachings, too.



I understand what you mean and agree with you, eastwatch. The reason I put this is to promote the restrengthening of ties in the present, I'm not in any way denying the wrongdoings of the West. But at the same time, I do not wish to promote a re-establishment or re-unification of United Pakistan. Why? Simple. I, like Faarhan, am a supporter for the Khilafah, which WILL come in the future when Allah wills. What I mean to say is that I support the unification of Pakistan and Bangladesh as much as ANY other two Muslim countries until we Muslims are all ONE. Because the main reason for the creation of United Pakistan in the first place was that we were all Muslims even though we were of different ethnicities and cultural/linguistic backgrounds. So given that, why stop there? Why not unite ALL Muslims?

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## Don Jaguar

Syed Naved said:


> jaguar dont be angry,in some content it's true.
> If sher e bangla dont proposed this resolution pakistan never would create.bengal was included pakistan,but problem was muzib and suhrawardy they want to join with india.this is complete history in short.



Agreed with this part, sher-e-bangla is my hero.

But all other is wrong.


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## eastwatch

Don Jaguar said:


> What nonsense all and all wrong.



Why the hell are you angry with history? It hurts you to know the truth, isn't it? You are surprised to read that Bangali Muslims were at the fore front of Pakistan Movement. There is another surprise of history that ignorants like you should read. All India Muslim League was formed not in your Congress supporting Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan or Frontier. It was formed in Dhaka in December 1906. Most of the present-day Pakistanis were against the formation of Pakistan before 1947. 

In the 1946 Provincial election conducted by the British all your Pakistani Provinces had formed Congress governments. Only Bengal formed a Muslim League government. Now, ignorants like you come to this Forum and claim you have VERY KINDLY incuded us. What a joke!

Better read the history of those times before the partition of British India. And do no more post your ignorance. You will become a laughing stock of others. What a stupid fool you are: I am angry at your childish ignorance. The hell with illiterate people like you.

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## eastwatch

I agree with toxic_pus that the word PAKISTAN was coined by Chowdhury Rahmat Ullah. He thought of two separate independent muslim majority States. One in the NW and the other in the east of India. The eastern State was supposed to have included Bengal and Assam. He named it BANGISTAN that is equivalent to Bangastan or Banglastan.

I am sorry for my mistake in another post where I have said the aconym PAKISTAN was coined by Allama Iqbal. This was not the case.


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## Don Jaguar

eastwatch said:


> Why the hell are you angry with history? It hurts you to know the truth, isn't it? You are surprised to read that Bangali Muslims were at the fore front of Pakistan Movement.



Actually i am not surprised, this is because our history books also say the same "Bangali Muslims were at the forefront of Pakistan Movement" i agree with this. 



eastwatch said:


> There is another surprise of history that ignorants like you should read. All India Muslim League was formed not in your Congress supporting Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan or Frontier. It was formed in Dhaka in December 1906. Most of the present-day Pakistanis were against the formation of Pakistan before 1947.



Again not surprised All India Muslim League was formed in dhaka in 1906, it is also written in our history text books so i agree with this. 

But when you say Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan and Frontier were congress supporting. then no sir they were not.



eastwatch said:


> In the 1946 Provincial election conducted by the British all your Pakistani Provinces had formed Congress governments. Only Bengal formed a Muslim League government. Now, ignorants like you come to this Forum and claim you have VERY KINDLY incuded us. What a joke!



Non of them formed congress government they were all supporting muslim league. 



eastwatch said:


> Better read the history of those times before the partition of British India. And do no more post your ignorance. You will become a laughing stock of others. What a stupid fool you are: I am angry at your childish ignorance. The hell with illiterate people like you.



I have read a lot of history of before partition time.

And yes i thing more sher-e-bangla is my hero.

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## eastwatch

Don Jaguar said:


> But when you say Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan and Frontier were congress supporting. then no sir they were not.
> Non of them formed congress government they were all supporting muslim league
> 
> I have read a lot of history of before partition time.



What you have read, I do not know. But, let me write about Punjab. In the pre-prtitioned Punjab, Muslims were a majority with 57% of the population. But, the result of Provincial election held in 1946 was not in favour of Muslim league. ML won only 73 seats out of a total seats of 175. See below to get a glimpse of the entire picture.

ML - 73
Congress - 51
Akali -22
Unionist - 20
Independents- 09
________________
Total - 175


Pakistan was established not with the votes from Punjab, but because Bengal had a ML majority, a ML govt and All India ML had received about 80% of Muslim votes throughout India. The Provincial election results prove that the Punjabis were not united under the ML banner at that time. And, do not also forget the 'Direct Action Day' that was initiated by the Bengal ML leaders in Calcutta. You may see a few pictures of the dead bodies in some of the posts sent in this thread by Faarhan. 

So, Bangali Muslims sacrificed and worked more than any other group of people to establish Pakistan. But, after 1947, well, another story started that ended in 1971.

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## Don Jaguar

eastwatch said:


> What you have read, I do not know. But, let me write about Punjab. In the pre-prtitioned Punjab, Muslims were a majority with 57% of the population. But, the result of Provincial election held in 1946 was not in favour of Muslim league. ML won only 73 seats out of a total seats of 175. See below to get a glimpse of the entire picture.



Actually the muslim seats in punjab were 86 out of 175, and the muslim league won 73 seats out of 86 muslim seats, so it tells us that the majority of muslims in punjab were demanding freedom. and for obvious reasons non muslims didn't gave votes to muslim league.




eastwatch said:


> Pakistan was established not with the votes from Punjab, but because Bengal had a ML majority, a ML govt and All India ML had received about 80% of Muslim votes throughout India. The Provincial election results prove that the Punjabis were not united under the ML banner at that time. And, do not also forget the 'Direct Action Day' that was initiated by the Bengal ML leaders in Calcutta. You may see a few pictures of the dead bodies in some of the posts sent in this thread by Faarhan.



Pakistan was created because of the votes of all, don't take all the credit and i have proved you that punjabi muslims were demanding independence but non muslims were not. and also don't forget the sacrifice given by the people on western side, most of the people were slaughtered in punjab by sikhs.

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## Syed Naved

bilalhaider said:


> Bengal played a big role in the Pakistan movement, but right at the end. The 1940 Lahore Resolution did not explicitly talk about a sovereign nation Pakistan along with East Pakistan, it talked about the empowerment of Muslims & the separate identity of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent.


 right at the end ?? sorry to say,eastern wing is from begining.xplain ,why you think so?


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> Because it is difficult for Bengalis to learn Hindi and Urdu. Bengalis find even Hindi as difficult when there is so much common vocabulary, forget Urdu which is highly Persianized.
> 
> Well,I Don't Agree With That.Speaking Style Main Bhi Different,But All The Bangladeshi Understand Hindi.


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## 53fd

Syed Naved said:


> right at the end ?? sorry to say,eastern wing is from begining.xplain ,why you think so?



Because there was no partition of India planned right till the very end. Jinnah was always happy with a one-state solution (till the end), but he wanted to give Indian Muslims extensive rights, & wanted Muslim majority states to act as autonomous ones, along with other rights for Muslims.


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> patna_ke_presley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because it is difficult for Bengalis to learn Hindi and Urdu. Bengalis find even Hindi as difficult when there is so much common vocabulary, forget Urdu which is highly Persianized.
> 
> Well,I Don't Agree With That.Speaking Style Main Bhi Different,But All The Bangladeshi Understand Hindi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I told you is based on experience with Indian Bengalis. You can understand but when it comes to appearing for exam it really become difficult for them to write that because Hindi's grammar is more complex then Bangla also many time confused between letter V and B. I know little Bangla and I saw it has a much easier grammar and simpler syntax. Maybe understanding Hindi woud be easier when compared to Urdu.
Click to expand...

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## eastwatch

Don Jaguar said:


> Actually the muslim seats in punjab were 86 out of 175, and the muslim league won 73 seats out of 86 muslim seats, so it tells us that the majority of muslims in punjab were demanding freedom. and for obvious reasons non muslims didn't gave votes to muslim league.
> 
> Pakistan was created because of the votes of all, don't take all the credit and i have proved you that punjabi muslims were demanding independence but non muslims were not. and also don't forget the sacrifice given by the people on western side, most of the people were slaughtered in punjab by sikhs.



Forget about the number game. But, at least you have finally come to the conclusion that all the muslims of the subcontinent contributed to the forming of Pakistan. About slaughter, it was mostly after the partition. It was unfortunate that the Punjabi Muslims could not resist them from being killed by the Sikh Punjabis. It was opposite in Bengal and Bihar, although we were not allowed to be called a martial race.


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> Syed Naved said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I told you is based on experience with Indian Bengalis. You can understand but when it comes to appearing for exam it really become difficult for them to write that because Hindi's grammar is more complex then Bangla also many time confused between letter V and B. I know little Bangla and I saw it has a much easier grammar and simpler syntax. Maybe understanding Hindi woud be easier when compared to Urdu.
> 
> 
> 
> i know what you try to xplain,but personaly i'm expert on hindi and bangla.that means like bengali i know read and write hindi with vocabulary,actualy i dont find difficulties indeed.xcept one.on verb we dont use male or female term like " kia kar rahi ho" or " kia kar rahe ho".w simply use : ki (kia) korcho (kar rahe/rahi)? verb is here " hoi(jase ki in hindi "ho" like kia ho rahe hain?) .here is ho/hoi but it is absent/untold.even ur's and ours same language.hindi was from western magadh means from western part of present bihar and bengali from eastern magadh means from eastern part of bihar ,but later many foreign words from arabic,sanskrit,turkish,poshtu ,african ,latin ,mongoloid nd chinese entered on it and it becomes modified.even bangla which is spoken on west bengal is not original bengali,it's also modified. urdu is also very easy language for some of us (bangladeshi).because like mine there are many sayed ,nawab and khwaja family in old dhaka city.so people like our family still there speak urdu,many knows to read and write urdu and farshi,some also know arabic.because we are not like rest of other bengali.we the dhakaias are different on culture,language as most of us are iraqi sayed origin.bengali grammer is easy but if you read the original bengali gramer there will u find too a,aa like yours.after hri,there comes lee which is now used as a a number ( bengali 9).
Click to expand...


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## Syed Naved

bilalhaider said:


> Because there was no partition of India planned right till the very end. Jinnah was always happy with a one-state solution (till the end), but he wanted to give Indian Muslims extensive rights, & wanted Muslim majority states to act as autonomous ones, along with other rights for Muslims.


 Bilal , hum bhi personaly quaid ko bahut ijjat karte hain.lakin agar hum galat na ho,i think jinnah and iqbal both want a nation for the muslims of sub continent.aur jab jinnah ny ye dekha ki muslim league (jo ki create bhi hua east bengal mein) ki majority support is from east bengal ,to us waqt bengal bhi included hua.
"he wanted to give Indian Muslims extensive rights, & wanted Muslim majority states to act as autonomous ones, along with other rights for Muslims." apki is baat se hum bhi agree hy,aur yebhi sach hain agar quaid us waqt zinda hota 71 kabhi bhi nahi hota,india bhi qamyaab nahi hota.kyun ki jinnah jasa leader na toh pakistan federation mein infact in sub continant very rare.

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## akash57

Syed Naved said:


> patna_ke_presley said:
> 
> 
> 
> i know what you try to xplain,but personaly i'm expert on hindi and bangla.that means like bengali i know read and write hindi with vocabulary,actualy i dont find difficulties indeed.xcept one.on verb we dont use male or female term like " kia kar rahi ho" or " kia kar rahe ho".w simply use : ki (kia) korcho (kar rahe/rahi)? verb is here " hoi(jase ki in hindi "ho" like kia ho rahe hain?) .here is ho/hoi but it is absent/untold.even ur's and ours same language.hindi was from western magadh means from western part of present bihar and bengali from eastern magadh means from eastern part of bihar ,but later many foreign words from arabic,sanskrit,turkish,poshtu ,african ,latin ,mongoloid nd chinese entered on it and it becomes modified.even bangla which is spoken on west bengal is not original bengali,it's also modified. urdu is also very easy language for some of us (bangladeshi).*because like mine there are many sayed ,nawab and khwaja family in old dhaka city.so people like our family still there speak urdu,many knows to read and write urdu and farshi,some also know arabic.because we are not like rest of other bengali.we the dhakaias are different on culture,language as most of us are iraqi sayed origin.*bengali grammer is easy but if you read the original bengali gramer there will u find too a,aa like yours.after hri,there comes lee which is now used as a a number ( bengali 9).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, I don't understand what you mean here. What is the connection between speaking Urdu; reading and writing Farsi; knowing Arabic and being of the descents in the bolded area? Especially since you are in a Bengali-speaking environment.
Click to expand...

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## TopCat

akash57 said:


> Syed Naved said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, I don't understand what you mean here. What is the connection between speaking Urdu; reading and writing Farsi; knowing Arabic and being of the descents in the bolded area? Especially since you are in a Bengali-speaking environment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is the most confused guy!!! He thinks he is the only Arabian descend in this country. There are millions of Turkemin lives in Sylhet region, there more millions Arabs lives in Chittagong, Noakhali region ploughing land even sweeping roads... But one good thing about them they dont brag about their ancestry neither aware of that. All are proud Bangladeshis. We make fun to all our Syed relatives as they even dont know whether they are Shia or Sunni, but none speak Urdu or Farsi neither Arabic but all Bengalis.
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## TopCat

Syed Naved said:


> Bilal , hum bhi personaly quaid ko bahut ijjat karte hain.lakin agar hum galat na ho,i think jinnah and iqbal both want a nation for the muslims of sub continent.aur jab jinnah ny ye dekha ki muslim league (jo ki create bhi hua east bengal mein) ki majority support is from east bengal ,to us waqt bengal bhi included hua.
> "he wanted to give Indian Muslims extensive rights, & wanted Muslim majority states to act as autonomous ones, along with other rights for Muslims." apki is baat se hum bhi agree hy,aur yebhi sach hain agar quaid us waqt zinda hota 71 kabhi bhi nahi hota,india bhi qamyaab nahi hota.kyun ki jinnah jasa leader na toh pakistan federation mein infact in sub continant very rare.



Dude, do dou know what you are talking about? Without the numbers of Muslim in Eastern India, Muslim even had any status in former India? You think brithish counted the Muslim from Beluchistan or NWFP? Did they even aware of Sindh Muslim who were dormant all the time? 
Its the Biharis and Bengalis who went nutts for a Pakistan. Punjabis only joined in late riots with the Shiks... 
Without Bengal, anybody could only dreamt of Pakstan.

By the way, with all respect to Jinnah, he was never a leader of Bengal. He never even delivered a speech to the people of this land. After severe riots, when Gandhi came all the way to Calcutta then Noakhali, after partition when Shohrawardy did not leave Calcutta before the safe exit of other Muslim, Jinnah never came. Thats why he never made a mark in the heart and soul of ordinary Bengalis.

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## Al-zakir

akash57 said:


> Syed Naved said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, I don't understand what you mean here. What is the connection between speaking Urdu; reading and writing Farsi; knowing Arabic and being of the descents in the bolded area? Especially since you are in a Bengali-speaking environment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not uncommon to know all the other languages even though he live in Bengali speaking environment. The old Dacca has the history of knowing Urdu and Farsi language because Dacca Nawab family originally from Kashmir. As a matter of fact, if there any place people speak Urdu in today's Bangladesh, then it's in old Dacca and Bihari colony.
> 
> In Bangladesh all Madrasa student know how to read, write and speak Urdu, Farsi and Arabic.
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## DESERT FIGHTER

I wish we reunite... PM or Pres frm bangal,COAS frm Pak,Vice cheif frm Bangal... while naval chief frm frm n PAF chief frm Pakistan... with bangal as an autonomous region!

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## TopCat

Al-zakir said:


> It's not uncommon to know all the other languages even though he live in Bengali speaking environment. The old Dacca has the history of knowing Urdu and Farsi language because Dacca Nawab family originally from Kashmir. As a matter of fact, if there any place people speak Urdu in today's Bangladesh, then it's in old Dacca and Bihari colony.
> 
> In Bangladesh all Madrasa student know how to read, write and speak Urdu, Farsi and Arabic.



There are Ahmadia and Shia community in Old Dhaka speaks Urdu as they usually dont intermingled with Bengalis too much due to religious and cultural matter which is undestandable. But ofcourse Biharis, the younger generation speaks fluent Bengali and like to introduce themselves as Bengalis instead.

---------- Post added at 10:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 PM ----------




Pakistani Nationalist said:


> I wish we reunite... PM or Pres frm bangal,COAS frm Pak,Vice cheif frm Bangal... while naval chief frm frm n PAF chief frm Pakistan... with bangal as an autonomous region!



this kind of thing does not work, its even more dangerous when there is fight between PM and COAS. Lets democracy flourish and everything just fall in place.


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## eastwatch

Al-zakir said:


> akash57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) It's not uncommon to know all the other languages even though he live in Bengali speaking environment. The old Dacca has the history of knowing Urdu and Farsi language because Dacca Nawab family originally from KASHMIR. As a matter of fact, if there any place people speak Urdu in today's Bangladesh, then it's in old Dacca and Bihari colony.
> 
> 2) In Bangladesh all Madrasa student know how to read, write and speak Urdu, Farsi and Arabic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One point. Dhaka Nawab family started with Khawaja Gani (if I am correct of the name). He came to Bengal to escape the anarchy in Delhi and save his own life. He was from Delhi for many generations, but his ancestors were Kashmiri. He did not come to Bengal directly from Kashmir.
> 
> Another point, there were million others from north India who had also migrated to Bengal. Nobody is any more aware of his heritage, only the rich old families are.
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## LaBong

Syed Naved said:


> i know what you try to xplain,but personaly i'm expert on hindi and bangla.that means like bengali i know read and write hindi with vocabulary,actualy i dont find difficulties indeed.xcept one.on verb we dont use male or female term like " kia kar rahi ho" or " kia kar rahe ho".w simply use : ki (kia) korcho (kar rahe/rahi)? verb is here " hoi(jase ki in hindi "ho" like kia ho rahe hain?) .here is ho/hoi but it is absent/untold.even ur's and ours same language.hindi was from western magadh means from western part of present bihar and bengali from eastern magadh means from eastern part of bihar ,but later many foreign words from arabic,sanskrit,turkish,poshtu ,african ,latin ,mongoloid nd chinese entered on it and it becomes modified.even bangla which is spoken on west bengal is not original bengali,it's also modified. urdu is also very easy language for some of us (bangladeshi).because like mine there are many sayed ,nawab and khwaja family in old dhaka city.so people like our family still there speak urdu,many knows to read and write urdu and farshi,some also know arabic.because we are not like rest of other bengali.we the dhakaias are different on culture,language as most of us are iraqi sayed origin.bengali grammer is easy but if you read the original bengali gramer there will u find too a,aa like yours.after hri,there comes lee which is now used as a a number ( bengali 9).



Neither do you speak proper Hindi/Urdu nor do you speak proper Bengali/English.

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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> patna_ke_presley said:
> 
> 
> 
> i know what you try to xplain,but personaly i'm expert on hindi and bangla.that means like bengali i know read and write hindi with vocabulary,actualy i dont find difficulties indeed.xcept one.on verb we dont use male or female term like " kia kar rahi ho" or " kia kar rahe ho".w simply use : ki (kia) korcho (kar rahe/rahi)? verb is here " hoi(*jase ki in hindi "ho" like kia ho rahe hain?*) .here is ho/hoi but it is absent/untold.even ur's and ours same language.*hindi was from western magadh means from western part of present bihar and bengali from eastern magadh means from eastern part of bihar ,but later many foreign words from arabic,sanskrit,turkish,poshtu ,african ,latin ,mongoloid nd chinese entered on it and it becomes modified.*even bangla which is spoken on west bengal is not original bengali,it's also modified. urdu is also very easy language for some of us (bangladeshi).because like mine there are many sayed ,nawab and khwaja family in old dhaka city.so people like our family still there speak urdu,many knows to read and write urdu and farshi,some also know arabic.because we are not like rest of other bengali.we the dhakaias are different on culture,language as most of us are iraqi sayed origin.bengali grammer is easy but if you read the original bengali gramer there will u find too a,aa like yours.after hri,there comes lee which is now used as a a number ( bengali 9).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really speak horrible Hindi. Also Hindi is not from western Magadh, Eastern Magadh, Magadh is South Western Bihar. Standard Hindi is the dialect of Delhi and adjoining areas in Western UP. Also, Hindi has more Sanskrit word that's why Hindi and Urdu are existing as a separate language. There are only few Persian, Arabic loanwords in Hindi, because our inspiration is Sanskrit language not foreign languages like Persian and Arabic.
> 
> *There was a language called "Maaghadi Prakrit" from which three languages Bengali, Assamese and Oriya originated.
> *
Click to expand...

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## TopCat

patna_ke_presley said:


> You really speak horrible Hindi. Also Hindi is not from western Magadh, Eastern Magadh, Magadh is South Western Bihar. Standard Hindi is the dialect of Delhi and adjoining areas in Western UP. Also, Hindi has more Sanskrit word that's why Hindi and Urdu are existing as a separate language. There are only few Persian, Arabic loanwords in Hindi, because our inspiration is Sanskrit language not foreign languages like Persian and Arabic.
> 
> *There was a language called "Maaghadi Prakrit" from which three languages Bengali, Assamese and Oriya originated.
> *



Hindi got more influnced by its western neighbours than Sanskrit. Sanskrit only 25%.


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## Syed Naved

akash57 said:


> Syed Naved said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, I don't understand what you mean here. What is the connection between speaking Urdu; reading and writing Farsi; knowing Arabic and being of the descents in the bolded area? Especially since you are in a Bengali-speaking environment.
> 
> 
> 
> yes ,its possible. one by one i explain.first of all ,from paternal side i'm from dhakaia nabab family and all knows that nababs language is urdu.my grandmother's mother and her mother's mother both were urdu speaker.my grandmothers father was a army officer and a doctor on that era.now about my grandfather.by grandfather's side we're from nabab family true but we're originaly sayed from baghdad of iraq.and sayed's are all from iraq to east bengal .they come here just during east india companies period,so arabic was there main language and all most all the sayed who are originaly of iraq know arabic /farshi.my mother's maternal grandfather know hindi,urdu,arabic,farshi.coz during that period they were compalsary and by heridatiary means we still save this practice among us. infact my maternal grandfather know hindi,english,urdu ,arabic reading and writing.so not for all but for us it is possible.arabic is li'll bit hard but hindi,bangla,urdu not at all.and the connection is by father side from father side i'm from a nabab family and from mother side from a landlord family . dighis,mango-garden,neel-kuthi of my maternal grandfathers family still on maskathia of rajsahi district .
Click to expand...


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> Syed Naved said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really speak horrible Hindi. Also Hindi is not from western Magadh, Eastern Magadh, Magadh is South Western Bihar. Standard Hindi is the dialect of Delhi and adjoining areas in Western UP. Also, Hindi has more Sanskrit word that's why Hindi and Urdu are existing as a separate language. There are only few Persian, Arabic loanwords in Hindi, because our inspiration is Sanskrit language not foreign languages like Persian and Arabic.
> 
> *There was a language called "Maaghadi Prakrit" from which three languages Bengali, Assamese and Oriya originated.magadh was bihar ,this i mean actualy.and like u i also want to say that hindi has more sanskrit,but here my xplanation about bengali.bengali was influenced by other language not hindi,that i wanna say.is not it true hindi originated as local dialects such as Braj, Awadhi, and finally Khari Boli after the turn of tenth century?devnagri script owes it's origins from sanskrit. about maghdhi prakrit ,i know this story.but at last main conclusion is,hindi ,bengali is from same origin*
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## A1Kaid

To all those East Pakistanis and Bengalis that remained loyal to the Pakistan cause, my respect.

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## Syed Naved

iajdani said:


> akash57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is the most confused guy!!! He thinks he is the only Arabian descend in this country. There are millions of Turkemin lives in Sylhet region, there more millions Arabs lives in Chittagong, Noakhali region ploughing land even sweeping roads... But one good thing about them they dont brag about their ancestry neither aware of that. All are proud Bangladeshis. We make fun to all our Syed relatives as they even dont know whether they are Shia or Sunni, but none speak Urdu or Farsi neither Arabic but all Bengalis.
> 
> 
> 
> i would be more happy if u say bangladeshi,because we may be bangladeshi not bengali . " We make fun to all our Syed relatives as they even dont know whether they are Shia or Sunni, but none speak Urdu or Farsi neither Arabic but all Bengalis" .now i'm realy confused what u are a sayed or what  people who dont repect their root but love to makes fun of it ,wht more i can say.however .yes about sylhet what u say true ,but noakhali !! it was a hindu ruled area and even now on no cow meat is available on hotels on noakhali,kumilla .so dont try to fool me.do u ever heard any dhakaia speak bangla or have you ever been on old dhaka?probably not or if you been there than you're not so clear about us.all the dhakaia family use just two language ,they are urdu as first tongue,dhakaia as second tongue.dont try to make others confused.and what is the problem of you if we use urdu/dhakaia? u have no right to force upon us.if you want ,then try this upon chittagongs tribal,if u succeed .... we have no problem with your forcing to speak in bangla.and if a family maintains its tradition ,then whats u'r problem ?problem with what? urdu,farshi or arabic? as a muslim to know arabic to read n understand quran our duty.and urdu our family tongue so we loved,love and will always love urdu and dhakaia.personaly i dont have problem with bangla ,but when u your self is not a dhakaia ,its useless to make u understand.so i have no problem wat u wanna think , mr xpert
Click to expand...

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## Syed Naved

A1Kaid said:


> To all those East Pakistanis and Bengalis that remained loyal to the Pakistan cause, my respect.


Pakistan Paindabad,Quaid e azam Zindabad.khuda ki khas rahmat hamesha bana rhe hamari pakistan par.also showing salute to all saheeds of nato attack.

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## patna_ke_presley

iajdani said:


> Hindi got more influnced by its western neighbours than Sanskrit. Sanskrit only 25%.



Yes, Bengali has more Sanskrit word than Hindi as it was most isolated language from Persian.*I don't know the exact percentage*. You may heard of Ayub Khan once saying,"East Pakistanis are still in under considerable Hindu influence because Bengali was not Persianized. They tried to Change your script from Bengali to Arabic and Bengalis resisted it intensely." Because west Pakistan thought if someone uses Indic script and Sanskrit will make you Hindu. Anyway have you read about Hindi-Urdu dispute.


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> Like u i also want to say that hindi has more sanskrit,but here my xplanation about bengali.bengali was influenced by other language not hindi,that i wanna say.is not it true hindi originated as local dialects such as Braj, Awadhi, and finally Khari Boli after the turn of tenth century?devnagri script owes it's origins from sanskrit. about maghdhi prakrit ,i know this story.but at last main conclusion is,hindi ,bengali is from same origin



Yes, Bengali and Hindi both are successor language of Sanskrit. From Sanskrit three languages originated- Sharuaseni Prakirt, Magadhi Prakrit, Maharashtri Prakrit. Hindi originated from Shaurseni and Bengali from Magadhi. Braj, Awadhi, Khari boli all originated together but Braj and Awadhi have rich literature so they are incorporated in Standard Hindi poetry though Khari boli(means. pure language) was used as Standard.

Both Devanagri and Bengali script originated from Brahmi. Difference between Devanagari script and Bengali script is that Devanagari uses circular letter and Bengali has triangular letters but still many different & common symbols are there.

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## Al-zakir

patna_ke_presley said:


> You may heard of Ayub Khan once saying,"East Pakistanis are still in under considerable Hindu influence because Bengali was not Persianized. They tried to Change your script from Bengali to Arabic and Bengalis resisted it intensely." Because west Pakistan thought if someone uses Indic script and Sanskrit will make you Hindu. Anyway have you read about Hindi-Urdu dispute.



Yes, it was true then and now. The then Pakistani government took the initiative to change the script to synchronize all the languages of united Pakistan but due to low quality Muslims and Hindus, it wasn't done. As a result, Bangla language has made a chunk of Bangladeshi Muslim semi Hindu due to influence of Tagore and other Hindu writers. Bangladeshi Bangla once comprise of about 6000 Persian origin words alone but they are no longer being used in modern Bangla because of Hindu origin script(present script). I personally hate this script. 

If we could have adopt Persian scripts then Bangladeshi Bangla would have been totally different(like Urdu and Hindi) from west Bengali Bangla and it would have been called "muslim Bangla". I am still for it and we are hoping that it will be done one day.

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## eastwatch

Syed Naved said:


> yes ,its possible. one by one i explain.first of all ,from paternal side i'm from dhakaia nabab family and all knows that nababs language is urdu.my grandmother's mother and her mother's mother both were urdu speaker.my grandmothers father was a army officer and a doctor on that era.now about my grandfather.by grandfather's side we're from nabab family true but we're originaly sayed from baghdad of iraq.and sayed's are all from iraq to east bengal .
> 
> they come here just during east india companies period,so arabic was there main language and all most all the sayed who are originaly of iraq know arabic /farshi.my mother's maternal grandfather know hindi,urdu,arabic,farshi.coz during that period they were compalsary and by heridatiary means we still save this practice among us. infact my maternal grandfather know hindi,english,urdu ,arabic reading and writing.so not for all but for us it is possible.arabic is li'll bit hard but hindi,bangla,urdu not at all.and the connection is by father side from father side i'm from a nabab family and from mother side from a landlord family . dighis,mango-garden,neel-kuthi of my maternal grandfathers family still on maskathia of rajsahi district .



This thread is not for introducing someone's family structure. But, from the very beginning you are trying to do so. Note that we all use a fictitious name to hide our real identity in the PDF. But, you are the one to tell your real name. What is there from Arabia or central asia? Many of the muslims' forefathers wre migrants from these countries during historical time, because they were very poor and destitute in their native countries. Do you see anybody rich in your neighbourhood to go to the middle-east to work?

Now, here you are shamelessly coming here with all your family background which we really do not have interest. When you want to marry write all those horse shits in a paper and submit it to your would be father-in-law. You are really a shameless person bragging here of your family background.

During the couse of more than 550 years of muslim rules in Bengal many soldiers, traders and poor fortune seekers from the muslim countries in the west of Bengal have come and domiciled in Bengal. The Nawabs of Dhaka also were like that. The 1st generation of this Khwaja family was a destitute person named Khwaja Ghani. He came to Dhaka from Delhi after the Sepoy Mutiny of 1857, and started his trade in raw COW HIDES in Sylhet. Ghani became a rich man and he or his son bought zamindaries in Bengal. 

The most famous child of this family is Salimullah. He was given the title of Nawab by the British Bengal govt. He also received a Sir title from the Raj. I have full respect for him and people like him. But, you are a guy who has no personal achievements to say of. So, you are here bragging about your language proficiency, which is very imperfect. 

You should have studied the history of language in Bengal. Do you really know that until 1832 Farsi was the official language of even the British govt? If you knew you would not have come here to say about your family background and its relationship with Persian. Every literate person of those days, Muslim and Hindu, used to study Persian.

Like million other muslims of Bengal, my own grandfather used to know Arabic and Persian. But, by today's standard he can be regarded as an illiterate, because he did not read or write Bengali. by the same standard, all your ancestors during Bitish time were also illiterate and ignorant. Why do you brag about them?

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## LaBong

Syed Naved said:


> i would be more happy if u say bangladeshi,because we may be bangladeshi not bengali . " We make fun to all our Syed relatives as they even dont know whether they are Shia or Sunni, but none speak Urdu or Farsi neither Arabic but all Bengalis" .now i'm realy confused what u are a sayed or what  people who dont repect their root but love to makes fun of it ,wht more i can say.however .yes about sylhet what u say true ,but noakhali !! it was a hindu ruled area and even now on no cow meat is available on hotels on noakhali,kumilla .so dont try to fool me.do u ever heard any dhakaia speak bangla or have you ever been on old dhaka?probably not or if you been there than you're not so clear about us.all the dhakaia family use just two language ,they are urdu as first tongue,dhakaia as second tongue.dont try to make others confused.and what is the problem of you if we use urdu/dhakaia? u have no right to force upon us.if you want ,then try this upon chittagongs tribal,if u succeed .... we have no problem with your forcing to speak in bangla.and if a family maintains its tradition ,then whats u'r problem ?problem with what? urdu,farshi or arabic? as a muslim to know arabic to read n understand quran our duty.and urdu our family tongue so we loved,love and will always love urdu and dhakaia.personaly i dont have problem with bangla ,but when u your self is not a dhakaia ,its useless to make u understand.so i have no problem wat u wanna think , mr xpert



I agree with this NawabZada. Bangladeshis listen to renegade prince and mind your tongue, stop calling yourself bengali.

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## LaBong

Al-zakir said:


> Yes, it was true then and now. The then Pakistani government took the initiative to change the script to synchronize all the languages of united Pakistan but due to low quality Muslims and Hindus, it wasn't done. As a result, Bangla language has made a chunk of Bangladeshi Muslim semi Hindu due to influence of Tagore and other Hindu writers. Bangladeshi Bangla once comprise of about 6000 Persian origin words alone but they are no longer being used in modern Bangla because of Hindu origin script(present script). I personally hate this script.
> 
> If we could have adopt Persian scripts then Bangladeshi Bangla would have been totally different(like Urdu and Hindi) from west Bengali Bangla and it would have been called "muslim Bangla". I am still for it and we are hoping that it will be done one day.



Low quality Hindus as opposed to rootless Bihari leftover, Eh Zakir? I wish at-least Pakistanis accepted you as Mohajirs in their country, sadly you had to stick to the country and people which you hated most! Poor people.


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## LaBong

Syed Naved said:


> yes ,its possible. one by one i explain.first of all ,from paternal side i'm from dhakaia nabab family and all knows that nababs language is urdu.my grandmother's mother and her mother's mother both were urdu speaker.my grandmothers father was a army officer and a doctor on that era.now about my grandfather.by grandfather's side we're from nabab family true but we're originaly sayed from baghdad of iraq.and sayed's are all from iraq to east bengal .they come here just during east india companies period,so arabic was there main language and all most all the sayed who are originaly of iraq know arabic /farshi.my mother's maternal grandfather know hindi,urdu,arabic,farshi.coz during that period they were compalsary and by heridatiary means we still save this practice among us. infact my maternal grandfather know hindi,english,urdu ,arabic reading and writing.so not for all but for us it is possible.arabic is li'll bit hard but hindi,bangla,urdu not at all.and the connection is by father side from father side i'm from a nabab family and from mother side from a landlord family . dighis,mango-garden,neel-kuthi of my maternal grandfathers family still on maskathia of rajsahi district .



People should get these Sayeds, do a genetic study and show them that how much Baghdadi they really are!

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## patna_ke_presley

Al-zakir said:


> Yes, it was true then and now. *The then Pakistani government took the initiative to change the script to synchronize all the languages of united Pakistan* but due to low quality Muslims and Hindus, it wasn't done. As a result, Bangla language has made a chunk of Bangladeshi Muslim semi Hindu due to influence of Tagore and other Hindu writers. Bangladeshi Bangla once comprise of about 6000 Persian origin words alone but they are no longer being used in modern Bangla because of Hindu origin script(present script). I personally hate this script.
> 
> If we could have adopt Persian scripts then Bangladeshi Bangla would have been totally different(like Urdu and Hindi) from west Bengali Bangla and it would have been called "muslim Bangla". I am still for it and we are hoping that it will be done one day.



You are wrong here, if they really wanted to do that, they would try to synchronize Sindhi script first because difference between Urdu script and Sindhi script is huge and you can use wikipedia to check this. West Pakistanis were facing superiority complex towards Bengalis and many Pakistanis regret today that they discriminated Bengalis.

Anyway, regarding Bengali script, it was a popular movement in 50s which shows Bengalis more considered it as a ancestral heritage than religious stuff and considered Persian script as alien culture.

*And watch your mouth when you call people low quality or high quality.*


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## LaBong

A1Kaid said:


> To all those East Pakistanis and Bengalis that remained loyal to the Pakistan cause, my respect.



Showing respect is fine, but only respect won't help them to earn their ends meet, nor will it be a salvation for their miserable life in BD. Why not giving them Pakistani citizenship? Surely you can do this for people who show such loyalty towards Pakistan's cause. 

Stateless in Bangladesh and Pakistan



After independence of Bangladesh the flood gates of oppression opened wider, many thousands more Biharis were killed, all of their homes and businesses were confiscated, they were fired from their jobs, their bank accounts seized, their kids expelled from schools and they once more had to seek refuge. International Red Cross created camps to save them from total annihilation. Most did not want to live in Bangladesh, after the battering they had received. So half a million chose to leave for, what was left of their country, Pakistan.

Pakistan only accepted about one third of this population for repatriation, 250-300 thousand have been living as stateless people in Bangladesh for more than a quarter of a century. Their story of woes in Bangladesh is as cruel as it is long. (Read excerpts from &#8220;Internment Camps of Bangladesh&#8221 (Read excerpts from &#8220;Biharis in Bangladesh&#8221. These Stateless people continued returning to their country of citizenship by whatever means possible. At this time there are at least 100 thousand living in Pakistan who are not recognized as citizens of Pakistan. Urdu-speaking are a minority in Pakistan. The Government of Pakistan amended her citizenship act by ordinance (Read Pakistan&#8217;s constitution and amendment to citizenship act) ) to deny nationality of the remaining Stranded Pakistanis (Aka Biharis). Pakistan&#8217;s denial of nationality was without a reason, retroactive, and with out due process of law. This has never been challenged in a Pakistani court of law but is patently unconstitutional and illegal. Remember this minority is not guilty of or even charged with any offence in either country.​

Respect can only get you so far.

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## Syed Naved

eastwatch said:


> This thread is not for introducing someone's family structure. But, from the very beginning you are trying to do so. Note that we all use a fictitious name to hide our real identity in the PDF. But, you are the one to tell your real name. What is there from Arabia or central asia? Many of the muslims' forefathers wre migrants from these countries during historical time, because they were very poor and destitute in their native countries. Do you see anybody rich in your neighbourhood to go to the middle-east to work?
> 
> Now, here you are shamelessly coming here with all your family background which we really do not have interest. When you want to marry write all those horse shits in a paper and submit it to your would be father-in-law. You are really a shameless person bragging here of your family background.
> 
> During the couse of more than 550 years of muslim rules in Bengal many soldiers, traders and poor fortune seekers from the muslim countries in the west of Bengal have come and domiciled in Bengal. The Nawabs of Dhaka also were like that. The 1st generation of this Khwaja family was a destitute person named Khwaja Ghani. He came to Dhaka from Delhi after the Sepoy Mutiny of 1857, and started his trade in raw COW HIDES in Sylhet. Ghani became a rich man and he or his son bought zamindaries in Bengal.
> 
> The most famous child of this family is Salimullah. He was given the title of Nawab by the British Bengal govt. He also received a Sir title from the Raj. I have full respect for him and people like him. But, you are a guy who has no personal achievements to say of. So, you are here bragging about your language proficiency, which is very imperfect.
> 
> You should have studied the history of language in Bengal. Do you really know that until 1832 Farsi was the official language of even the British govt? If you knew you would not have come here to say about your family background and its relationship with Persian. Every literate person of those days, Muslim and Hindu, used to study Persian.
> 
> Like million other muslims of Bengal, my own grandfather used to know Arabic and Persian. But, by today's standard he can be regarded as an illiterate, because he did not read or write Bengali. by the same standard, all your ancestors during Bitish time were also illiterate and ignorant. Why do you brag about them?


 that means u wanna say ,person like dr sahidullah illiterate  typical bengali sentiment.listen i have no interest to tell my or our sayeds history but when one said ," how you connected ?" then again he said ," we dont want to know " ...this can bring only one meaning that either you are fools or simply sentimental . and all knows ," u can even teach a bird how to speak but impossible to make understand who are emotionaly fools." u said ,"The most famous child of this family is Salimullah. He was given the title of Nawab by the British Bengal govt. He also received a Sir title from the Raj. I have full respect for him and people like him. But, you are a guy who has no personal achievements to say of. So, you are here bragging about your language proficiency, which is very imperfect" this realy makes me laugh when i try to say before anyones asking. i just say,people like us like urdu... .dont teach me history of 1832 , i know everything of it. i explain clearly ," if any family maintain its tradition or any group of ethnicity maintains its tradition whats wrong on it ". be practical not emotional that would help you more child.


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## Syed Naved

LaBong said:


> Showing respect is fine, but only respect won't help them to earn their ends meet, nor will it be a salvation for their miserable life in BD. Why not giving them Pakistani citizenship? Surely you can do this for people who show such loyalty towards Pakistan's cause.
> 
> Stateless in Bangladesh and Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> After independence of Bangladesh the flood gates of oppression opened wider, many thousands more Biharis were killed, all of their homes and businesses were confiscated, they were fired from their jobs, their bank accounts seized, their kids expelled from schools and they once more had to seek refuge. International Red Cross created camps to save them from total annihilation. Most did not want to live in Bangladesh, after the battering they had received. So half a million chose to leave for, what was left of their country, Pakistan.
> 
> Pakistan only accepted about one third of this population for repatriation, 250-300 thousand have been living as stateless people in Bangladesh for more than a quarter of a century. Their story of woes in Bangladesh is as cruel as it is long. (Read excerpts from &#8220;Internment Camps of Bangladesh&#8221 (Read excerpts from &#8220;Biharis in Bangladesh&#8221. These Stateless people continued returning to their country of citizenship by whatever means possible. At this time there are at least 100 thousand living in Pakistan who are not recognized as citizens of Pakistan. Urdu-speaking are a minority in Pakistan. The Government of Pakistan amended her citizenship act by ordinance (Read Pakistan&#8217;s constitution and amendment to citizenship act) ) to deny nationality of the remaining Stranded Pakistanis (Aka Biharis). Pakistan&#8217;s denial of nationality was without a reason, retroactive, and with out due process of law. This has never been challenged in a Pakistani court of law but is patently unconstitutional and illegal. Remember this minority is not guilty of or even charged with any offence in either country.​
> 
> Respect can only get you so far.


 one correction abir,bd has give full citizenships to all biharis here,now they are the part of bd


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## IND151

this thread is still alive?


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## Syed Naved

LaBong said:


> People should get these Sayeds, do a genetic study and show them that how much Baghdadi they really are!


 well its a good idea  ... yes brother many mixes occured but ,some xceptionals stills are.and what you say if any branch recorded their all family tree ,history. from physical structure to speaking style,food havit when you find different ,what to say...


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## TopCat

Syed Naved said:


> that means u wanna say ,person like dr sahidullah illiterate  typical bengali sentiment.listen i have no interest to tell my or our sayeds history but when one said ," how you connected ?" then again he said ," we dont want to know " ...this can bring only one meaning that either you are fools or simply sentimental . and all knows ," u can even teach a bird how to speak but impossible to make understand who are emotionaly fools." u said ,"The most famous child of this family is Salimullah. He was given the title of Nawab by the British Bengal govt. He also received a Sir title from the Raj. I have full respect for him and people like him. But, you are a guy who has no personal achievements to say of. So, you are here bragging about your language proficiency, which is very imperfect" this realy makes me laugh when i try to say before anyones asking. i just say,people like us like urdu... .dont teach me history of 1832 , i know everything of it. i explain clearly ," if any family maintain its tradition or any group of ethnicity maintains its tradition whats wrong on it ". be practical not emotional that would help you more child.



See, Sohrawardy who was a Iraqi too. But he belonged here, worked for the people here and died for the people here. So once he died, still saluted and revered by the people here. But look at Iskendar Mirja. He thought his soul belonged to West Pakistan or somewhere else. After his death his corpse could not find a place neither in East or West Pakistan. People spit on him. 

Try to honor yourself, honor the land you belong and honor the people who you live with. 

Its foolishness to show allegiance to a land or community which your forefather deserted. You are a traitor/deserter to your previous land. Dont try the same luck to the land where you belong now. You will loose everything.

There is nothing wrong in maintaining your familly tradition, the way I as sylheti speaks sylheti in my home. But calling "Pakistan Zindabad" etc. gives a false impression if you yourself maintain a BD citizenship.

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## eastwatch

Syed Naved said:


> that means u wanna say ,person like dr sahidullah illiterate  typical bengali sentiment.listen i have no interest to tell my or our sayeds history but when one said ," how you connected ?" then again he said ," we dont want to know " ...this can bring only one meaning that either you are fools or simply sentimental . and all knows ," u can even teach a bird how to speak but impossible to make understand who are emotionaly fools." u said ,"The most famous child of this family is Salimullah.
> 
> He was given the title of Nawab by the British Bengal govt. He also received a Sir title from the Raj. I have full respect for him and people like him. But, you are a guy who has no personal achievements to say of. So, you are here bragging about your language proficiency, which is very imperfect" this realy makes me laugh when i try to say before anyones asking. i just say,people like us like urdu... .dont teach me history of 1832 , i know everything of it. i explain clearly ," if any family maintain its tradition or any group of ethnicity maintains its tradition whats wrong on it ". be practical not emotional that would help you more child.



Do not try to be someone of another country where you yourself are regarded as MISKIN.


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> one correction abir,bd has give full citizenships to all biharis here,now they are the part of bd





A1Kaid said:


> To all those East Pakistanis and Bengalis that remained loyal to the Pakistan cause, my respect.



First thing not everyone got the citizenship and they got it too late, they were kept waiting 37 years to get open heart welcome for Pakistan but in the last who cared for them the same Bengalis. Pakistan only remember their 1971 sorrow and nobody in Pakistan want to discuss their sorrow from 1971-present.

In Pakistan every one cares that Muhajir population should not increase otherwise MQM will get more votebank. In 1993, MQM and Nawaz Sharif tried to settle them in South Punjab and all Saraikis came on road against that move. Benazir Bhutto even tried to deport those Bihari who illegally entered in Pakistan after escaping bullets of Indian and Pakistan army.

*What is status of Biharis in Pakistani heart, to use them only as a propaganda tools against India and Bangladesh otherwise we don't care about them.*


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## kobiraaz

Syed Naved said:


> well its a good idea  ... yes brother many mixes occured but ,some xceptionals stills are.and what you say if any branch recorded their all family tree ,history. from physical structure to speaking style,food havit when you find different ,what to say...



Is your name Naved hritom ?? 

and your facebook status today -


> PAKISTAN HAVE TO WIN THIS MATCH DURING THIS DECEMBER.ONCE ON THIS DECEMBER PAKISTAN FALLS,BUT THIS TIME WE'LL RULE





> AUR AB LADIES AND GENTLE MAN ,EK KHOSH-KHABR HAIN. BHANGAL KI BILLI LOG JO KHUD KO SHER SAMAJHTA THA, VO LOG AB MATCH HAR GYA.LETS CELEBRATE THE VICTORY.INSH ALLAH Hum Honge Kamyab ALWAYS,ALWAYS & ALWAYS



Well, you are a medical student and accidentally i found you while browsing fb............. We got some mutual friends.......................

Some people in my country are really insane! 

I can understand those who believe in Khilafah and doesnt believe in national boundaries among Muslims. I respect them. 

But why do you have this special love for Pakistan and hatred for your land??

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## Zabaniyah

^^^That guy must really hate the AL and _vice versa_ 

But I agree, he's getting kinda extreme...


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## kobiraaz

Bludgeon said:


> ^^^Be wary of false flaggers. I think we have quite a few of them among us here...



he is not a false flagger, i saw his picture with My frnd...............................


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## patna_ke_presley

Bludgeon said:


> ^^^That guy must really hate the AL and _vice versa_
> 
> But I agree, he's getting kinda extreme...



By looking at his profile picture, he doesn't seems like Bangladeshi even 1%, I can see Pakistan flag in most of his profile pics.


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## integra

Sometimes I wish this kind of nutheads were false flaggers but alas
that's not the case. If it wasn't for PDF maybe this species would have
been unknown to me.


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## LaBong

patna_ke_presley said:


> By looking at his profile picture, he doesn't seems like Bangladeshi even 1%, I can see Pakistan flag in most of his profile pics.



He must be the guy in middle, looks pretty Bangladeshi to me.

Among the other two one probably is Punjabi another Afghan.


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## patna_ke_presley

LaBong said:


> He must be the guy in middle, looks pretty Bangladeshi to me.
> 
> Among the other two one probably is Punjabi another Afghan.



He is middle guy, he looks Bangladeshi, his last name"Hrithom" sounds like a Bengali name, but he is more interested in having his pics with Pakistani flag and Pashtun cap. I also saw him on facebook.


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## Zabaniyah

Faarhan said:


> he is not a false flagger, i saw his picture with My frnd...............................



And sadly, you are right.



integra said:


> Sometimes I wish this kind of nutheads were false flaggers but alas
> that's not the case. If it wasn't for PDF maybe this species would have
> been unknown to me.



They aren't uncommon, trust me.

---------- Post added at 12:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 AM ----------




patna_ke_presley said:


> He is middle guy, he looks Bangladeshi, his last name"Hrithom" sounds like a Bengali name, but he is more interested in having his pics with Pakistani flag and* Pashtun cap*.



He's the first Bangladeshi I have seen wearing that.


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## patna_ke_presley

Bludgeon said:


> And sadly, you are right.
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't uncommon, trust me.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 12:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> He's the first Bangladeshi I have seen wearing that.



His friends are openly calling him Razakar.He is using Insulting words for his own country. My God, his Hindi is really horrible. 0/10 for poor Hindi.

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## Al-zakir

Cut the crap guys. This tread is not about him. If you guys like to talk about him them either use PM or MSN. Thanks


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## eastwatch

Bludgeon said:


> ^^^That guy must really hate the AL and _vice versa_
> 
> But I agree, he's getting kinda extreme...



There is nothing about AL. It is the hatred for all the Bangalis those stupids like Naved have in their minds. These people think they are from Arabia and are, therefore, superior to others. But, the stupids do not know the history of the Bangali Muslims that many others also immigrated to this land of plenty. 

While most of the Central Asians came as worriors, these Arabs came as beggers with bowls in hands. The local muslim aristocrats helped these beggers to settle in Bengal, that's all. There was a time when Bengal Sultans used to send help to Mecca. 

I wonder why some shameless stupids have entered this Forum? Is it to destroy all the important threads on Bengal? Why someone should come here to introduce himself as some one big? We want posters who can contribute in this sub-forum on Bangladesh. We certainly do not want snobs like Naved, who is here to talk about his own rootless family.

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## Syed Naved

eastwatch said:


> There is nothing about AL. It is the hatred for all the Bangalis those stupids like Naved have in their minds. These people think they are from Arabia and are, therefore, superior to others. But, the stupids do not know the history of the Bangali Muslims that many others also immigrated to this land of plenty.
> 
> While most of the Central Asians came as worriors, these Arabs came as beggers with bowls in hands. The local muslim aristocrats helped these beggers to settle in Bengal, that's all. There was a time when Bengal Sultans used to send help to Mecca.
> 
> I wonder why some shameless stupids have entered this Forum? Is it to destroy all the important threads on Bengal? Why someone should come here to introduce himself as some one big? We want posters who can contribute in this sub-forum on Bangladesh. We certainly do not want snobs like Naved, who is here to talk about his own rootless family.


 whatever u mean,whatever you dont.it does not effect me emotional bengaly fools


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## Syed Naved

iajdani said:


> See, Sohrawardy who was a Iraqi too. But he belonged here, worked for the people here and died for the people here. So once he died, still saluted and revered by the people here. But look at Iskendar Mirja. He thought his soul belonged to West Pakistan or somewhere else. After his death his corpse could not find a place neither in East or West Pakistan. People spit on him.
> 
> Try to honor yourself, honor the land you belong and honor the people who you live with.
> 
> Its foolishness to show allegiance to a land or community which your forefather deserted. You are a traitor/deserter to your previous land. Dont try the same luck to the land where you belong now. You will loose everything.
> 
> There is nothing wrong in maintaining your familly tradition, the way I as sylheti speaks sylheti in my home. But calling "Pakistan Zindabad" etc. gives a false impression if you yourself maintain a BD citizenship.


 you emotional fool ,learn to wide your heart.Its my decission what will i say or not,and yes pakistan devided peoples like you.one can go against martial law,govt ,administration not against country.thats why you have no right to teach me any lesson.


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## Shabz Nist

Bludgeon said:


> And sadly, you are right.
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't uncommon, trust me.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 12:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> He's the first Bangladeshi I have seen wearing that.



Unbelievable. I just made a quick visit to FB. Shocking....

Never knew such species existed in Bangladesh.

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## Shabz Nist

Syed Naved said:


> you emotional fool ,learn to wide your heart.Its my decission what will i say or not,and yes pakistan devided peoples like you.one can go against martial law,govt ,administration not against country.thats why you have no right to teach me any lesson.



@Naved, a quick question.

Which country do you feel loyalty to? Pakistan? or Bangladesh ?

I am VERY interested in getting an answer.


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## Syed Naved

Faarhan said:


> Is your name Naved hritom ??
> 
> and your facebook status today -
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you are a medical student and accidentally i found you while browsing fb............. We got some mutual friends.......................
> 
> Some people in my country are really insane!
> 
> I can understand those who believe in Khilafah and doesnt believe in national boundaries among Muslims. I respect them.
> 
> But why do you have this special love for Pakistan and hatred for your land??


 so you are friend of sami,faarhan shams.tell me whats your problem on it ? why won't i love pakistan? why would i hate them when they did nothing.punjab battelion etc may take part on 71 but most of pak regiment do not fire a bullet upon bengali.moreover we all are muslim,every muslim is brother ,and moreover pakistan was our country ,our nation,our brothers they were ,so why would i hate them,for which reason.a game is a game,and if you wanna support anyone give full support.try to be honest yourself.thats my suggession.and what i say,correctly say.Quaid formed united pakistan for muslims of sub continent.but some political traitors of east break our nation.an army's duty is to protect their nation,so our beloved pakistan army did so.remember one thing you can raise against a martial law not against your country.but some bal leaders did so with the help of india.and now,what you get? this country has become like a part of india,do you say it is your soveireinity !! shame on people like this.and for me too support pakistan is my imaan.as bd's people join with enemy ,break nation ,so they are wrong.mukti killed a lot,does a lot wrong did ,dont wanna xplain.

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## Syed Naved

Shabz Nist said:


> @Naved, a quick question.
> 
> Which country do you feel loyalty to? Pakistan? or Bangladesh ?
> 
> I am VERY interested in getting an answer.


 Muslims doesnot have nation,they themselve is a nation.About loyalty,ofcourse pakistan.from my point yahya ,bhutto may wrong ,so bangals can go against martial law,not against the country.because going against country is not like going against martial law etc it means traitorness.bangladeshis habit is ,they'll take advantage of you,after that they will began to start work against you.so why should i support peoples like this

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## Shabz Nist

Syed Naved said:


> Muslims doesnot have nation,they themselve is a nation.About loyalty,ofcourse pakistan.from my point yahya ,bhutto may wrong ,so bangals can go against martial law,not against the country.because going against country is not like going against martial law etc it means traitorness.bangladeshis habit is ,they'll take advantage of you,after that they will began to start work against you.so why should i support peoples like this



Uh...maybe because your'e a bangladeshi...? I dont know man..i'm just guessing here....


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## Syed Naved

Shabz Nist said:


> Unbelievable. I just made a quick visit to FB. Shocking....
> 
> Never knew such species existed in Bangladesh.


 There lies so much that you dont know.whatever,Pakistan was my country,quaid was father of the nation.so i'll always support them.some may betray by other country's influence but xceptions always exist and will always.


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## Syed Naved

Shabz Nist said:


> Uh...maybe because your'e a bangladeshi...? I dont know man..i'm just guessing here....


 you guees but I experienced.they are just ungrateful.no matter how much you do for them but after a time they'll betray you.


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## Shabz Nist

Syed Naved said:


> There lies so much that you dont know.whatever,Pakistan was my country,quaid was father of the nation.so i'll always support them.some may betray by other country's influence but xceptions always exist and will always.



Do you know what "operation searchlight" was? Its was conducted by the Pakistan army which led to great sorrow among the east-pakistanis. 



> Numerous women were raped, tortured and killed during the war. The exact numbers are not known and are a subject of debate with some sources quoting figures as high as 400,000. One of the more horrible revelations concerns 563 young Bengali women, some only 18, who were held captive inside Dhaka's dingy military cantonment since the first days of the fighting. They were seized from Dhaka University and private homes and forced into military brothels, with some of the women carrying war babies being released.
> 
> During the war, the Pakistan Army and its local collaborators carried out a systematic execution of the leading Bengali intellectuals. A number of professors from Dhaka University were killed during the first few days of the war
> 
> During the nine month duration of the war, the Pakistani army, with the assistance of local collaborators systematically executed an estimated 991 teachers, 13 journalists, 49 physicians, 42 lawyers, and 16 writers, artists and engineers.




My god man...you are living in a fantasy land.


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## Syed Naved

yes i know what it was,it happened due to bhuttos foolishness and his speech do the massacar.but if it was quaid it would never happened.


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## eastwatch

Syed Naved said:


> you guees but I experienced.they are just ungrateful.no matter how much you do for them but after a time they'll betray you.



Hey, son of a gun stupid fool, what are you talking about here about this gratefulness? Explain immediately. This s*ob is here just to destroy this thread. He does not like even the word Bangladesh. His photograph shows he is the ugliest Bangali I have ever seen, but, here he is pretending to be from Europe. Go and look at the mirror. But, take off the cap to see your bald head at such a young age.


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## Capt.Popeye

@eastwatch,
EW, its a pity the thread came down to this; why do people insist on being insufferable (being incorrigible is another matter). sigh.


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## Syed Naved

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> I wish we reunite... PM or Pres frm bangal,COAS frm Pak,Vice cheif frm Bangal... while naval chief frm frm n PAF chief frm Pakistan... with bangal as an autonomous region!


 Inshallah we will.I also wish the same,Quaids dream of united Pakistan need to be fulfilled.Past is past,its time for be united and surve pakistan ,serve quaid

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## Syed Naved

eastwatch said:


> Hey, son of a gun stupid fool, what are you talking about here about this gratefulness? Explain immediately. This s*ob is here just to destroy this thread. He does not like even the word Bangladesh. His photograph shows he is the ugliest Bangali I have ever seen, but, here he is pretending to be from Europe. Go and look at the mirror. But, take off the cap to see your bald head at such a young age.


 I dont need to xplain anything front of a silly puppet like you,Quaid e azam is a great leader.you have even no idea what he mean,and when you dont have any idea,its useless  ...

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## Syed Naved

Don Jaguar said:


> Agreed with this part, sher-e-bangla is my hero.
> 
> But all other is wrong.


 i totaly agree with you,but what will you do,neither they have any idea nor they know anything

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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> Inshallah we will.I also wish the same,Quaids dream of united Pakistan need to be fulfilled.Past is past,its time for be united and surve pakistan ,serve quaid



Awami League led the civilian movement against Pakistan and BNP founder Zia ur Rahman revolted with Bengali soldiers against West Pakistan. It was Zia ur Rahman who declared independence of Bangladesh. You had three military government and fighting/quarreling with India since 40 years. But I never saw any signal of Bangladesh want to become East Pakistan again. What a loyalty to Pakistan who never cared for Stranded Biharis.

You seems more like a person who lives in Alice's Wonderland.


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## Syed Naved

Al-zakir said:


> akash57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not uncommon to know all the other languages even though he live in Bengali speaking environment. The old Dacca has the history of knowing Urdu and Farsi language because Dacca Nawab family originally from Kashmir. As a matter of fact, if there any place people speak Urdu in today's Bangladesh, then it's in old Dacca and Bihari colony.
> 
> In Bangladesh all Madrasa student know how to read, write and speak Urdu, Farsi and Arabic.
> 
> 
> 
> thanks al zakir ,at least you xplain them what i want to xplain.
Click to expand...


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## Zabaniyah

> WHATEVER BANGAL THINKS,WHATEVER THEY PLANNED,NO MATTER.I DECLARE THAT : PAKISTAN ONLY PAKISTAN WOULD BE VICTORIOUS ON THIS DECEMBER.. *BANGAL MUST BE ,SHOULD BE CRUSHED !!*



Oh man, how rich!


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> His friends are openly calling him Razakar.He is using Insulting words for his own country. My God, his Hindi is really horrible. 0/10 for poor Hindi.


  you make me laugh those you saw was just 3 people.sami,nawid,shuvo . you make three my whole,wow impressive.arefin,tisha,saurav,dip and so many are there who supports pakistan . dont mix up game with war and politics. two are different.and the three who said me so,yes they can.because they are from awam e league supporting family.


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## Shabz Nist

Bludgeon said:


> Oh man, how rich!



Yeah....wow...right?


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## Syed Naved

Bludgeon said:


> Oh man, how rich!


  but yes,benghal billi realy destroyed.match harar por o jara pakistan er against e bole ,thak kisui bolar nai ....ulobone mukto chorano ar banger sordi dekhte chesta kora same kotha


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## eastwatch

Syed Naved said:


> you make me laugh those you saw was just 3 people.sami,nawid,shuvo . you make three my whole,wow impressive.arefin,tisha,saurav,dip and so many are there who supports pakistan . dont mix up game with war and politics. two are different.and the three who said me so,yes they can.because they are from awam e league supporting family.



Bangladesh is not AL's property. Neither it is the property of Razaakars like you. We will remain separate and independent of both the countries in our west. Do not worry about it.

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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> Awami League led the civilian movement against Pakistan and BNP founder Zia ur Rahman revolted with Bengali soldiers against West Pakistan. It was Zia ur Rahman who declared independence of Bangladesh. You had three military government and fighting/quarreling with India since 40 years. But I never saw any signal of Bangladesh want to become East Pakistan again. What a loyalty to Pakistan who never cared for Stranded Biharis.
> 
> You seems more like a person who lives in Alice's Wonderland.


 Dont comment like silly persons.if pakistan did so,what's wrong on it? Biharis are part of bihar neither of bangladesh nor Pakistan.so if pakistan did so ,no matter to astonished.without knowing any reason give comments against Pakistan ,is just a foolishness


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## eastwatch

Syed Naved said:


> but yes,benghal BILLI realy destroyed.match harar por o jara pakistan er against e bole ,thak kisui bolar nai ....ulobone mukto chorano ar banger sordi dekhte chesta kora same kotha



If we are Bangali BILLI, then you are the KALA INDUR. We have defeated you, and we will defeat again your conspiracy.


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## mjnaushad

eastwatch said:


> If we are Bangali BILLI, then you are the KALA INDUR. We have defeated you, and we will defeat again your conspiracy.



Every nation have their share of A$$H**** .... Dont mind him.... He is reported.

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## StandForInsaf

War was a reality , Pro-Pakistan Bangladeshis are still our brother and will remain .

We should learn from mistakes done in past not to do them again.

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## Zabaniyah

Syed Naved said:


> but yes,benghal billi realy destroyed.match harar por o jara pakistan er against e bole ,thak kisui bolar nai ....ulobone mukto chorano ar banger sordi dekhte chesta kora same kotha



Well, 'tigers' may be over-rated, but I'd still support them. 

Just curious, are you a Bihari?


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> Dont comment like silly persons.if pakistan did so,what's wrong on it? Biharis are part of bihar neither of bangladesh nor Pakistan.so if pakistan did so ,no matter to astonished.without knowing any reason give comments against Pakistan ,is just a foolishness



Biharis left in 1947 so, now they don't belong to this land, instead of them we took lots of Bengalis, Sindhis and Punjabis and now they are sons of this soil, not Stranded Biharis. They don't consider themselves as Bangladeshis and desire to migrate to West Pakistan and their rights should be fulfilled by Pakistani government. But Pakistanis fear more about their demography then Biharis.


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> you make me laugh those you saw was just 3 people.sami,nawid,shuvo . you make three my whole,wow impressive.arefin,tisha,saurav,dip and so many are there who supports pakistan . dont mix up game with war and politics. two are different.and the three who said me so,yes they can.because they are from awam e league supporting family.



Tu jis type ka die hard fan dikh raha hai, Lagta hai World Cup semi final mein to tere ghar pe Chulha tak nahi jala hoga. 

Anyway, you may support whatever team but bashing your own countrymen against rival cricket team, it is the height of stupidity.


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## LaBong

Now I know why the biharis in bangladesh had to go through what they went through after 71.


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## Syed Naved

eastwatch said:


> If we are Bangali BILLI, then you are the KALA INDUR. We have defeated you, and we will defeat again your conspiracy.


 O.M.G I'm realy,truly,horribly scared  listen,stop hatred against pakistan,karon ei hatred only bangladesher khoti boye anbe mongol noi.Ar k kala indur,k bagh,k ki se toh khelatei dekha gelo


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> Tu jis type ka die hard fan dikh raha hai, Lagta hai World Cup semi final mein to tere ghar pe Chulha tak nahi jala hoga.
> 
> Anyway, you may support whatever team but bashing your own countrymen against rival cricket team, it is the height of stupidity.


 i never do that ! but only one who gone through this ,can only understand.yes,bangladeshis are very friendly in nature very true,but it is also true they are ungrateful.aur agar sach bolne mein koi jurm hai,toh thik hai.


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## Syed Naved

"you may support whatever team but bashing your own countrymen against rival cricket team, it is the height of stupidity" .sorry to say ,i dont say that nor even mention that.onemorething i may be from here,there or anywhere but a wrong is a wrong,crime is a crime.


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## Zabaniyah

patna_ke_presley said:


> Anyway, you may support whatever team but bashing your own countrymen against rival cricket team, it is the height of stupidity.





LaBong said:


> Now I know why the biharis in bangladesh had to go through what they went through after 71.



He is a Bihari. 



Syed Naved said:


> "you may support whatever team but bashing your own countrymen against rival cricket team, it is the height of stupidity" .sorry to say ,i dont say that nor even mention that.onemorething i may be from here,there or anywhere but a wrong is a wrong,crime is a crime.



Crime? Can you be more specific?


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> "you may support whatever team but bashing your own countrymen against rival cricket team, it is the height of stupidity" .sorry to say ,i dont say that nor even mention that.onemorething i may be from here,there or anywhere but a wrong is a wrong,crime is a crime.



If I have my own brother and my cousin, I will support my brother when it comes to choose one from them. But it seems you are more concerned about your cousins and abusing your own brothers with offensive words.


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## Syed Naved

StandForInsaf said:


> War was a reality , Pro-Pakistan Bangladeshis are still our brother and will remain .
> 
> We should learn from mistakes done in past not to do them again.


 totaly agreed  ...


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> If I have my own brother and my cousin, I will support my brother when it comes to choose one from them. But it seems you are more concerned about your cousins and abusing your own brothers with offensive words.


 my xplanation to you : 1)all the muslims are brother not cousin
2)If I found ,my brother is guilty ,why will I support him? Too Speak the truth doesnot means abusing country men.in my whole post I never utter a single Abusive word,but just defend myself.
yes,their comes sometimes,some situation.but if you means everyone who speak the truTh is a lier,stupid .....here left nothing to be xplained.
I live in Bangladesh,I Know how they are.
The Most Charming Part of our people ,They are very friendly.
But also true that,they are sentimental,ungrateful.People of barisal are most cunning,people of chittagong selfcentered,people of bogura ,old dhaka,rajshahi very jolic,friendly,well mannered,patriotic.people of kushtia,noakhali selfish type.and people of sylhet are bussiness lover.


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> i never do that ! but only one who gone through this ,can only understand.yes,bangladeshis are very friendly in nature very true,but it is also true they are ungrateful.aur agar sach bolne mein koi jurm hai,toh thik hai.



Who is ungrateful here. As far I know it were Bengalis who fought for Pakistan not West Pakistanis. They were 55% of population, still they had to take permission from West Pakistanis what script they want to use for their language, and When minority sit over the head of majority, then majority becomes their colony and that was truth with pre-1971 Pakistan.

We North-Indians form the majority in India and we never took permission from other minority groups to make Hindi as India's national language and other has dominance according to their population percentage. By protocol, Bengalis were in majority their language needed national language status. In no country of the world language of minority is official language.


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## LaBong

Bludgeon said:


> He is a Bihari.
> 
> 
> 
> Crime? Can you be more specific?



He aint Bihari, he can't speak a sentence in Hindustani with proper grammar and syntax. He probably is from one of those "Bengali collaborator of Pakistan Army" family, commonly known as Rajakar.

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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> my xplanation to you : 1)all the muslims are brother not cousin
> 2)If I found ,my brother is guilty ,why will I support him? speaking fact doesnot means abusing country men.in my whole post I never utter a single Abusive word,but just defend myself.



Anyway, what guilty Bangladesh cricket team did so that you support Pakistani Cricket team against them and calling them Billi with bullying them. It is biggest ghaddari against your own team.

Anyway, as a Sunni, you will choose Saudi Arabia over Iran as it was shown during recent UN voting, most Sunni countries voted against Iran.


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Syed Naved said:


> totaly agreed  ...



I want to declare that there is no presence of Pro-Pakistani Bangladeshi or Pro-Indian Bangladeshi or any type of Pro Aggressor Bangladeshi. Only Pro Bangladeshi Bangladeshis are only pure Bangladeshis. 

Pro of any foreign Nation are surely collaborators and conspirator. They are cruel animals. They don't love own origin and own land which is given to them as a grace from the almighty.

All Pro Bangladeshis are well concerned to remove those Pro Satan. 

Those have no right live in any human nation as those are betrayers to own Nation.

Shame on the betrayers and the collaborators.

At first, this local agents of the aggressors should be isolated for the sound development of a Nation.

We, the Bangladeshis are alert about that from the ancient time.

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## LaBong

One thing is sure, he surely is a aryan! Eh Shakib? 

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------




Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> I want to declare that there is no presence of Pro-Pakistani Bangladeshi or Pro-Indian Bangladeshi or any type of Pro Aggressor Bangladeshi. Only Pro Bangladeshi Bangladeshis are only pure Bangladeshis.
> 
> Pro of any foreign Nation are surely collaborators and conspirator. They are cruel animals. They don't love own origin and own land which is given to them as a grace from the almighty.
> 
> All Pro Bangladeshis are well concerned to remove those Pro Satan.
> 
> Those have no right in any human nation as those are betrayers to own Nation.
> 
> Shame on the betrayers and the collaborators.
> 
> At first, this local agents of the aggressors should be isolated for the sound development of a Nation.
> 
> We, the Bangladeshis are alert about that from the ancient time.



You missed Aryan trickery and "I am Bangladesh, continua-tor of ancient Dravidian Bangladesh Nation.".

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## patna_ke_presley

LaBong said:


> One thing is sure, he surely is a aryan! Eh Shakib?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> You missed Aryan trickery and "I am Bangladesh, continua-tor of ancient Dravidian Bangladesh Nation.".



No, he mentioned in his one reply that he is Iraqi i.e. Arab.


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## Polemos

patna_ke_presley said:


> We North-Indians form the majority in India and we never took permission from other minority groups to make Hindi as India's national language and other has dominance according to their population percentage.


 
No hard feelings boss but this is something I feel strongly about. Hindi is "an" official language, not the national language.

There's no national language in India: Gujarat High Court - Times Of India

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## LaBong

it seems all subcontinental arabs came from iraq, noone from more tropical countries like oman, qatar etc :/


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

LaBong said:


> One thing is sure, he surely is a aryan! Eh Shakib?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> You missed Aryan trickery and "I am Bangladesh, continua-tor of ancient Dravidian Bangladesh Nation.".




Thanks for remembering my identity. At this place, I am defending the Central Asian originated collaborators to our Nation who don't recognize our Bangladeshi Nation. They dream about the Mirza populated new Mirzastan. But it is sure that, We are Bangladesh, continua-tor of ancient Dravidian Bangladesh Nation. I don't want to bring this matter here. It was discussed in another thread.

We are Bangladesh, continua-tor of ancient Dravidian Bangladesh Nation.


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## integra

---------------------NVM---------------------------------


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

patna_ke_presley said:


> No, he mentioned in his one reply that he is Iraqi i.e. Arab.



I have not said that, I am Arab. I am Bangladeshi. I have said that Dravidians came from Mesopotemia(present Iraq) six thousand years ago three thousand years before than the Aryan(who came from Eastern Europe). I have said there is very close relationship between Arab and Dravidian. It was my statement. I am not interested to make repeat this matter again those here.


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## LaBong

^you heard the prince Shakib, he is baghdadi arab, he aint central asian.

---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------




Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> I have not said that, I am Arab. I am Bangladeshi. I have said that Dravidians came from Mesopotemia(present Iraq) six thousand years ago three thousand years ago than the Aryan(who came from Eastern Europe). I have said there is very close relationship between Arab and Dravidian. It was my statement. I am not interested to make repeat this matter again those here.



He is talking about his highness nawabzada naved hritom.


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## patna_ke_presley

Polemos said:


> No hard feelings boss but this is something I feel strongly about. Hindi is "an" official language, not the national language.
> 
> There's no national language in India: Gujarat High Court - Times Of India



Sorry dude, I should have said it is the official language of central government.

---------- Post added at 10:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------




Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> I have not said that, I am Arab. I am Bangladeshi. I have said that Dravidians came from Mesopotemia(present Iraq) six thousand years ago three thousand years before than the Aryan(who came from Eastern Europe). I have said there is very close relationship between Arab and Dravidian. It was my statement. I am not interested to make repeat this matter again those here.



We are not talking about you but we are talking about Syed Naved who don't think he is Bangladeshi but a Pakistani.

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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

patna_ke_presley said:


> Sorry dude, I should have said it is the official language of central government.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 10:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are not talking about you but we are talking about Syed Naved who don't think he is Bangladeshi but a Pakistani.


]


Namer modhdhe Soid Ali thaklei Arab hoon jai Na. Aei rokom Vondo collaborator Soid Aligo amra hare hare chini. Dhormer kaje mon nai , Shara din dekhe Hindi chobi, Shone Hindi gan ar shomorthon kore Pakistan Cricket team. Dhormer kotha ashlei khali koi amra Soid Ali.

Collaborators vondo.


The Bangladeshi Nation is facing the simultaneous threats from those collaborators and from Aryan human cluster.

We, the Bangladesh are the answers to all of them.

We are Bangladesh, continua-tor of ancient Dravidian Bangladesh Nation.

There is no class-ism in humanity.


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## Maira La

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> I have not said that, I am Arab. I am Bangladeshi. I have said that Dravidians came from Mesopotemia(present Iraq) six thousand years ago three thousand years before than the Aryan(who came from Eastern Europe). I have said there is very close relationship between Arab and Dravidian. It was my statement. I am not interested to make repeat this matter again those here.



Here too!  ->


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## Zabaniyah

LaBong said:


> He aint Bihari, he can't speak a sentence in Hindustani with proper grammar and syntax. He probably is from one of those "Bengali collaborator of Pakistan Army" family, commonly known as Rajakar.



I don't know man. Maybe he's insane(?) 

Let's all (including Pakistanis) be quiet toward him. Don't let it be contagious!

---------- Post added at 12:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 AM ----------




Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> I have not said that, I am Arab. I am Bangladeshi. I have said that Dravidians came from Mesopotemia(present Iraq) six thousand years ago three thousand years before than the Aryan(who came from Eastern Europe).* I have said there is very close relationship between Arab and Dravidian. It was my statement. I am not interested to make repeat this matter again those here.*



You don't need to. No one is going to buy your bullshit anyways.

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## Capt.Popeye

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> I have not said that, I am Arab. I am Bangladeshi. I have said that Dravidians came from Mesopotemia(present Iraq) six thousand years ago three thousand years before than the Aryan(who came from Eastern Europe). I have said there is very close relationship between Arab and Dravidian. It was my statement. I am not interested to make repeat this matter again those here.



I don't know if any of that is true. But between you and me; don't try to say that to our friends to te immediate west. The will have coronary thrombosis. Because, according to them; dark short-statured Dravidians exist only in India- mainly in southern India.
Now if what you say is true, then the Dravidians entered the Indian sub-continent only by way of their "preserve". (The Dravidians certainly could'nt have come by spaceship) Now see what the reaction from the west will be! So many theories will just go up in smoke!

And what will our "Nawabzada Sahibzada's" reaction be?


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## Al-zakir

iajdani said:


> See, Sohrawardy who was a Iraqi too. But he belonged here, worked for the people here and died for the people here. So once he died, still saluted and revered by the people here. But look at Iskandar Mirza. He thought his soul belonged to West Pakistan or somewhere else. After his death his corpse could not find a place neither in East or West Pakistan. People spit on him.



You have very good knowledge when comes to Hindus and Buddhism history related to Bangladesh yet zero when comes to know about Islamic history. The other day, in another thread, you didn't know origin of Siraj yet you call your self Bangladeshi Muslim. What are you? Hindu or Muslim who want to be Hindu. Lanat. 


Suhrawardy's family came from Persia. They were persian/Urud speaking family however Suharawardy did learn Bangla. 

Iskandar Mirza was direct desendent of Mir Jafar and he was Iraqi.


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## TopCat

iajdani said:


> See, Sohrawardy who was a Iraqi too. But he belonged here, worked for the people here and died for the people here. So once he died, still saluted and revered by the people here. But look at Iskendar Mirja. He thought his soul belonged to West Pakistan or somewhere else. After his death his corpse could not find a place neither in East or West Pakistan. People spit on him.
> 
> Try to honor yourself, honor the land you belong and honor the people who you live with.
> 
> Its foolishness to show allegiance to a land or community which your forefather deserted. You are a traitor/deserter to your previous land. Dont try the same luck to the land where you belong now. You will loose everything.
> 
> There is nothing wrong in maintaining your familly tradition, the way I as sylheti speaks sylheti in my home. But calling "Pakistan Zindabad" etc. gives a false impression if you yourself maintain a BD citizenship.


 


Syed Naved said:


> you emotional fool ,learn to wide your heart.Its my decission what will i say or not,and yes pakistan devided peoples like you.one can go against martial law,govt ,administration not against country.thats why you have no right to teach me any lesson.



Well, seems like you know too much in your very early age.
Anyways you seems like a very angry person. What exactly are you angry about? What exactly, Bengalis or infact Bangladeshis done to you so that you are angry. YOu should open yourself up instead showing your anger in a wrong manner. Its a land of immigrant and if the locals were hostile then your forefather could not had made this land as their own. Just think about your ancestral home. They dont even let their daughter to get married to a foreigner let alone giving domicile to any outsider.

Now coming back to your Pakistan love. Well, its not only your familly but a lot of Bengalis supported united Pakistan. But after the war they accepted the reality and accepted Bangladesh. Even Jamatis will fight alongside Bangladesh army if Pakistan try to take this land back. Thats the reality on the ground. You should accept it or accept the citizenship of Pakistan the way many smarter people did after the war. Under Simla agreement Bangladesh and Pakistan agreed to the principle that both countries will accept the people as their citizen according to their desire regardless of their place of birth. So you had the oppportunity to make Pakistan as your own. But you did not. Why are you crying now instead just accepting the reality and become and bonafide citizen of Bangldesh.

When I talk about your current status, as you are not a Pakistani citizen, Pakistan will not provide you with protection neither provide you with a passport. If you are in trouble, the BD army will give blood for you not any Pakistan army. If you are stuck in the middle of the Sea, its the Bangladeshi Falgged ship will go to rescue you not any Pakistani ship. If for any reason you find yourself in Pakistani shore, they will arrest you and feed you for couple of days and deport you back to Bangladeshi shore. We the unfortuane Bengalis will have to take you back and live up with that.

My 2 cents...

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## Maira La

Al-zakir said:


> You have very good knowledge when comes to Hindus and Buddhism history related to Bangladesh yet zero when comes to know about Islamic history. The other day, in another thread, you didn't know origin of Siraj yet you call your self Bangladeshi Muslim. What are you? Hindu or Muslim who want to be Hindu. Lanat.
> 
> 
> Suhrawardy's family came from Persia. They were persian/Urud speaking family however Suharawardy did learn Bangla.
> 
> Iskandar Mirza was direct desendent of Mir Jafar and he was Iraqi.



Whats with all these racial talk? BD people are heavily mixed and no one is pure Iraqi or pure Persian. I know only 3/4 th of my ancestry, and guess what! I'm partially Jewish! Bwhahaha

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## TopCat

Al-zakir said:


> You have very good knowledge when comes to Hindus and Buddhism history related to Bangladesh yet zero when comes to know about Islamic history. The other day, in another thread, you didn't know origin of Siraj yet you call your self Bangladeshi Muslim. What are you? Hindu or Muslim who want to be Hindu. Lanat.
> 
> 
> Suhrawardy's family came from Persia. They were persian/Urud speaking family however Suharawardy did learn Bangla.
> 
> Iskandar Mirza was direct desendent of Mir Jafar and he was Iraqi.



Well I am not too sure about Sohrwardy's ancestral home but in numerous references it is mentioned that he is an arab of Iraq.
One such *This lawyer-politician, who belonged to a prestigious Sufi family of Iraqi origin settled in Midnapore, *
Shahid Hussein Suhrawardy - Online Encyclopedia of Mass Violence
In another reference I saw that his familly were upset about him not knowing Arabic. He never known to be a proponent of Urdu or Farsi. I am sure he knew Urdu but hardly used.

Mir Jafar was from Persia (Not sure), When Iskandar Mirja could not find a place to bury himself, it was Iranian Shah who arranged one in his country.

Regarding Islamic history, well my core interest is with ancient history not comtemporary history. Nothing to do with Islam.

Thank..

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## LaBong

Al-zakir said:


> You have very good knowledge when comes to Hindus and Buddhism history related to Bangladesh yet zero when comes to know about Islamic history. The other day, in another thread, you didn't know origin of Siraj yet you call your self Bangladeshi Muslim. What are you? Hindu or Muslim who want to be Hindu. Lanat.
> 
> 
> Suhrawardy's family came from Persia. They were persian/Urud speaking family however Suharawardy did learn Bangla.
> 
> Iskandar Mirza was direct desendent of Mir Jafar and he was Iraqi.


 
Dumdum, persian empire also included present day iraq, even today majority of iraqis are shia.

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## Al-zakir

iajdani said:


> In another reference I saw that his familly were upset about him not knowing Arabic. He never known to be a proponent of Urdu or Farsi. I am sure he knew Urdu but hardly used.
> 
> Mir Jafar was from Persia, When Iskandar Mirja could not find a place to bury himself, it was Iranian Shah who arranged one in his country.



Hardly used. You don't know jack and making things up. Suhrawardy's family used Urdu/Persian as primary languages. His grandfather, father never spoke Bengali even though they were residing in Calcutta. As a matter of fact, all most all prominent Muslim in Bengal didn't spoke Bangla because it was considered a language of Hindus and lower class Muslims. This is the truth whether you accept it or not. Nawab Siraj didn't spoke Bangla either. 

Suhrawardy' obviously was Urdu speaker, may not be fluent in Farsi, he later on learn Bangla in order to be accepted among Bangla speaking Muslims. He was politican so he used the emotion to fit in. His family now a days live in Bangladesh and Pakistan. 

Once again, Mir Jafar was Iraqi, not Persian. 

I personally know nothing about Hindu history because I am not interested to carry on that knowledge. I suggest you go back to your root otherwise you will not get respect among Muslims.


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## Al-zakir

Bludgeon said:


> Well, 'tigers' may be over-rated, but I'd still support them.
> 
> Just curious, are you a Bihari?



No kidding. Bhai, calling them Tiger is almost Tauheen to Sher-e-Bengal. I suggest they remove this LOGO until Bd team recruit some real Tiger with exception of Tamim, Mortoza, Sakib-al-Hasan. 

Do you ever wonder why most of our player look like they suffering from malnutrition(excet Tamim and Mortoza). I mean what is the problem here. I know we have plenty food now a days.

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## TopCat

Al-zakir said:


> Hardly used. You don't know jack and making things up. Suhrawardy's family used Urdu/Persian as primary languages. His grandfather, father never spoke Bengali even though they were residing in Calcutta. As a matter of fact, all most all prominent Muslim in Bengal didn't spoke Bangla because it was considered a language of Hindus and lower class Muslims. This is the truth whether you accept it or not. Nawab Siraj didn't spoke Bangla either.
> 
> Suhrawardy' obviously was Urdu speaker, may not be fluent in Farsi, he later on learn Bangla in order to be accepted among Bangla speaking Muslims. He was politican so he used the emotion to fit in. His family now a days live in Bangladesh and Pakistan.
> 
> Once again, Mir Jafar was Iraqi, not Persian.
> 
> I personally know nothing about Hindu history because I am not interested to carry on that knowledge. I suggest you go back to your root otherwise you will not get respect among Muslims.



I told you, his parental language was Arabic. He used Bengali while he was in East pakistan. He could most likely used Urdu while addressing overwhelming Urdu community in Calcutta. But he was known to communicate in Bengali in political arena of East Pakistan.

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## Al-zakir

LaBong said:


> Dumdum, persian empire also included present day iraq, even today majority of iraqis are shia.



O.K genius, I mean Suhrawardy's family were ethically Persian and Mir Jafar was Arab.


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## Al-zakir

eastwatch said:


> these Arabs came as beggers with bowls in hands. The local muslim aristocrats helped these beggers to settle in Bengal, that's all. There was a time when Bengal Sultans used to send help to Mecca. .



I thought you have excellent grasp in History or you are just saying to score a point against Naved. 

While it true that Arabia was poor before discovering the oil and Bengal was rich, however I do not think they came as beggar, rather as traders(small and big). As a matter of fact, initially Islam came to Chittagong through Arab traders. Local embraced Islam because they were impressed by the honesty of those Arab Muslims(Yemenis). 

If I remember correctly then you have said that you also got some Arab blood, so aren't you actually admitting that you are descendant of Beggars. No need to get feisty, I am just asking.

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## patna_ke_presley

"Curious case of Naved Rithom"

---------- Post added at 04:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 AM ----------




Al-zakir said:


> I thought you have excellent grasp in History or you are just saying to score a point against Naved.
> 
> While it true that Arabia was poor before discovering the oil and Bengal was rich, however I do not think they came as beggar, rather as traders(small and big). As a matter of fact, initially Islam came to Chittagong through Arab traders. Local embraced Islam because they were impressed by the honesty of those Arab Muslims(Yemenis).
> 
> If I remember correctly then you have said that you also got some Arab blood, so aren't you actually admitting that you are descendant of Beggars. No need to get feisty, I am just asking.



Once an Indian Muslim professor went to South Korea and once a guy from bus shouted at him,"Hey Arab." The Indian guy felt too bad and filed a racism case against that South Korean guy and in the last, the Korean guy was found guilty of racism and fined as penalty.


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## eastwatch

Syed Naved said:


> O.M.G I'm realy,truly,horribly scared  listen,stop hatred against pakistan,karon ei hatred only bangladesher khoti boye anbe mongol noi.Ar k kala indur,k bagh,k ki se toh khelatei dekha gelo


 
Ai Kala Indur, Tu Jaise Razaakar Log Khud Darfok Hain. Bangladesh Ke Liye Tu Kyun Rola Macha Raha Hain? Tu Etna Na-farman Ek Banda Hain Keh Tu Cricket Ko Siasat Ke Saath Milaa Kar Baat Kar Raha Hain. Tu Asal Me Ajabgarh se Aya Ek Ajab Chiriya Hain. Tere Sajaa Bangladesh Ki Mitti Par Hi Hona Hain. Bangladesh Ka Khata Hain, Aur Dusra Mulk Ki Bandegi Karta Hain, Bewaquf Kahi Ka!!

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## eastwatch

Al-zakir said:


> I thought you have excellent grasp in History or you are just saying to score a point against Naved.
> 
> While it true that Arabia was poor before discovering the oil and Bengal was rich, however I do not think they came as beggar, rather as traders(small and big). As a matter of fact, initially Islam came to Chittagong through Arab traders. Local embraced Islam because they were impressed by the honesty of those Arab Muslims(Yemenis).
> 
> If I remember correctly then you have said that you also got some Arab blood, so aren't you actually admitting that you are descendant of Beggars. No need to get feisty, I am just asking.



Read the chronology written by Ibn Batuta. People are fond of saying only merchant class Arabs domiciled in Bengal. It is not all the truths. Ibn Batuta wrote (I have posted it in another thread) that there were boats full of Arabs who were migrating to Bengal. The boat he boarded on was also full of migrants going to a rich Bengal. So, many of these people were poor and destitute, and were looking for a decsent source of income. These people had settled in Bengal with their near families.

So, we cannot say that only rich Arab merchants had come to our shore. In reality, no rich man will ever go to an unknown world unless he is a part of military adventure. Today, millions of BD young people are going to the middle-east. They are certainly not rich. Same thing happened in the past. Mostly the poor Arabs came to Bengal.

About marriage to locals. It is also wrong to say the local Hindus or even muslims would give away their daughters to these unknown people from unknown lands. We have to understand the society of those days. Note that this land was under muslim control, the Arabs and Persians were also Muslims. The sea-lanes were peaceful and the Arabs were used to a Kafela style of traveling with their kins, families and friends. These desert people are used to group traveling. The same thing happened when they were on a sea voyage to a far away country like Bengal. They certainly brought their families with them.

Inter-marriages happened only a few generations after. Intermarriages happened among people of various origins who were living in the same land, speaking the same/similar language, going to the same mosques, eating from the same plates, participating in the same wars and giving bloods for the common cause. This is how all the foregn muslims intermingled with each other and also with the locals who took Islam as their religion.

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## Avisheik

Apocalypse said:


> Whats with all these racial talk? BD people are heavily mixed and no one is pure Iraqi or pure Persian. I know only 3/4 th of my ancestry, and guess what! I'm partially Jewish! Bwhahaha



No $hit bro . Mossad er shathe kaj koren naki . J.k


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

banglarmanush said:


> No $hit bro . Mossad er shathe kaj koren naki . J.k




Collaborators are identified. They are always keen to disrupt the true Nationalistic Approach. There is a Jewish concept of Vondo Mirza Gulam Qudiani. There are some paid servants of them who make the advertisement of that. Jewish Star may be found on their profile picture. Those are not suitable to live in any Nation as those are betrayers to own Nation and soil and are followers of Zionist.


Collaborators are identified and Be careful.


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## akash57

Ok, why the hell do the ethnic histories of the families of the recently mentioned political figures (Suhrawardy, Mir Jafar, Iskandar Mirza) matter so much?  If instead we used our time to learn about the EARLY Muslims as much as these people, the purest Muslims ever who are the Prophet (SAW) and the sahaba, the tabi'een and the tabi'-e-tabi'een and try to emulate THEM, then we (Muslims) would be in a MUCH better position in the world today. It would be much better for us troubled Muslims of today to follows the views of these people and not any Suhrawardy, Iskandar, Jinnah, poor Iraqi migrant or Central Asian warriors. (No disrespect intended to these figures).

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## Maira La

banglarmanush said:


> No $hit bro . Mossad er shathe kaj koren naki . J.k



 jk about the "Jewish" part. I was just... (see my next post)


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## LaBong

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> Collaborators are identified. They are always keen to disrupt the true Nationalistic Approach. There is a Jewish concept of Vondo Mirza Gulam Qudiani. There are some paid servants of them who make the advertisement of that. Jewish Star may be found on their profile picture. Those are not suitable to live in any Nation as those are betrayers to own Nation and soil and are followers of Zionist.
> 
> 
> Collaborators are identified and Be careful.


 
The swedish guy was slightly more mad.

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## Maira La

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> Collaborators are identified. They are always keen to disrupt the true Nationalistic Approach. There is a Jewish concept of Vondo Mirza Gulam Qudiani. There are some paid servants of them who make the advertisement of that. Jewish Star may be found on their profile picture. Those are not suitable to live in any Nation as those are betrayers to own Nation and soil and are followers of Zionist.
> 
> 
> Collaborators are identified and Be careful.



...waiting for this! EPIC!!

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## LaBong

Norway I meant.


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## Avisheik

But why the israeli flag bro? shakib er reaction dekhar jonno?

---------- Post added at 12:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 PM ----------




LaBong said:


> Norway I meant.



Norway, sweden same thing, all aryans


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## Al-zakir

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> I have not said that, I am Arab. I am Bangladeshi. I have said that Dravidians came from Mesopotemia(present Iraq) six thousand years ago three thousand years before than the Aryan(who came from Eastern Europe). I have said there is very close relationship between Arab and Dravidian. It was my statement. I am not interested to make repeat this matter again those here.



O.K, Khuda Hafez. Aar koto pakaben. Dimaker toh barota bajaya dichen already. Kaita poren, khuda ke liye.

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## Maira La

banglarmanush said:


> But why the israeli flag bro? shakib er reaction dekhar jonno?



Haha, no, not just him. There's another guy here. I'm amazed he didn't react.

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## Avisheik

Apocalypse said:


> Haha, no, not just him. There's another guy here. I'm amazed he didn't react.



I think i know who you might be refering to

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## Maira La

banglarmanush said:


> I think i know who you might be refering to



But I better change my avatar before RAW and/or ISI identify me!


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## Zabaniyah

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> Collaborators are identified. They are always keen to disrupt the true Nationalistic Approach. There is a Jewish concept of Vondo Mirza Gulam Qudiani. There are some paid servants of them who make the advertisement of that. Jewish Star may be found on their profile picture. Those are not suitable to live in any Nation as those are betrayers to own Nation and soil and are followers of Zionist.
> 
> 
> Collaborators are identified and Be careful.

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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

LaBong said:


> The swedish guy was slightly more mad.





What a transformation? @ Labong, I have made the previous comment by observing the Jewish Star in the profile of someone. Now it is showing the image of Buddhist Monk. What a Change like Amoeba! It will change its profile picture in the next time. 

Though Vondo Qudiani also claimed about the relation of the Buddhist and Jews also!

So, the collaborators are on their way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## kobiraaz

NAVED IS NOT ALONE LOL..................


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Faarhan said:


> NAVED IS NOT ALONE LOL..................




Those are misguided. You may observe some cowards like them in the match between Bangladesh Vs India who are supporting India.

In fact those are misguided. They were not taught properly about the true Bangladeshi Nationalism.

Some collaborator cluster is branding the Pro Pakistani Nationalism and some collaborator cluster is branding Pro Indian Nationalism. Because there is presence of collaborators in this territory who are masked and are doing the crime to our Nation.(Aryan Cluster, some Mirzas (Mughal Residue).


But the true Bangladeshi Nationality is not in hide. You can observe the whole stadium as the emotions of the true Bangladeshis who loves their soil and origin. Those collaborators are very negligible. Bangladeshi Nation is the eighth largest Nation of the world. It is like a ocean. The small islands of those collaborators are not so important at all.Misguided people can be brought to mainstream by defining the true nationality to them.


We are all Pro Bangladeshi. Our Nationality is well defined since the ancient time. 
We are not a myth. We are one of the hard working nation of the world.


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## LaBong

Let's not post facebook walls, it breaches their privacy.

Actually supporting a team is justifiable, heck I'd probably support brazil of they ever plays a football match against india. 

However using terms like banghal billi, traitors, ungrateful shows racist psyche. 

On a second thought, its not even racist as the guy only speaks bengali, I don't know how he speaks arabic, but his hindustani and english proficiency is enough to make one roll on the floor while laughing our laud! It's a weird phenomenon, Stockholm syndrome anyone?

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## notsuperstitious

Wow! I hope this Pakistanesque identity crisis in BD does not make it another Pakistan.

I'm surprised at some Bangladeshi posters' posts, to say the least. Actually I'm shocked.


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## integra

Well it rather looks like a confused billi syndrome,
unfortunately I'm failing to understand why
the sudden importance to a self proclaimed princess!

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## genmirajborgza786

well the way i see it, I have a very personal relation to the events of 1971 even though i wasn't born then ,my family came from Calcutta west bengal to the then east Pakistan in Decca many left for Karachi after the event we went to mid-east from there to north America etc ,well things were never the same again from what i could make out of this episode is fist both west & east Pakistan could have been managed very well indeed it just needed effort, hard work, understanding & respect for each other but once accomplished it could have been very much possible & quite successful in fact. Now coming down to the mismanagement i believe mistakes were made by both sides by both the political heavy weights of east & west Pakistan as both of them had their share of fault's in it but mainly i will say ayub khans martial law followed by the neglect of the 70's floods by the west & finally Bhutto's impractical refusal to participate in the Dhaka assembly & accept the election result he should have sport fully conceded to mujib plus on the other hand sheikh mujib's persistent on the 6 point memorandum which needed some flexibility had he done so it would have eased some of the suspicion of the west then it could have been better more practical so to speak , & Finlay yahya's refusal to hand over power to sheikh mujib just hit the tip of the iceberg after which it was an unrepairable turn of events & from their on it was all down hill. Well anyway no use crying over a spilled milk Pakistan & Bangladesh should both forget the past let's bygones be bygones & both should be best of friends 

to the whole event this phrase comes to mind

_Yeh jabr bhi dekha hai taareekh ki nazron ne.........
Lamhon ne khata ki thi sadiyon ne sazaa payee....._

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## asad71

Karachiite said:


> No place for traitors or Bharti agents in Pakistan, we are better off without them.



1. If Pak media is to be believed fols are/were Indian agents:

a. Benazir Bhutto who sabotaged Kashmiri jihad and Sikhistan freedom struggle.
b. Some have even accused Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, the illegitimate son of Shahnawaz Bhutto, of being an Indian plant. He had spent much of his youth as a playboy in Bombay. His role in orchestrating an unplanned Op Gibraltar and his stance in post-election 1971 are s e e n as proofs.
c. Mustafa Khar, a top PPP leader and clan chief of niece Hina Khar, has been accused by his former wife,Tahmina Durrani, Maj Durrani's daughter, in My Feudal Lord of being guests of RAW along with full family in India. RAW even paid for their lavish shopping.
d. Aitezaz Ahsan, Benazir's Interior Minister had handed over all contact details of Khalistan freedom-fighters to India.
e. Altaf Husain is accused as a RAW agent by not only Pak media, but almost all Pakistanis.

2. We in BD know very well who are working for India in our country. For much of this we blame Pakistan for its role in 1971 and stance thereafter.

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## patna_ke_presley

Faarhan said:


> NAVED IS NOT ALONE LOL..................


 

It seems Bangladeshi don't need enemies when they have such types of nuts in their country. Morons supporting foreigners against their own home country cricket teams.


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## Al-zakir

Faarhan said:


> NAVED IS NOT ALONE LOL..................



Farhan, why are you posting this here. This is not a face book expose thread. What some one does in his/her private page his their business. Please remove this out of here. What if some one else post your real picture here. You could be in danger. 

I also support team Pakistan when they play against any other team beside ours. As a matter fact, I was really hurt when they lost against Indian in last world cup.

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## opps

For almost 10 months mukti bahini fought hard against pakistan army and indian army came in december to steal all glory from bengalis.

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## StandForInsaf

asad71 said:


> 1. If Pak media is to be believed fols are/were Indian agents:
> 
> a. Benazir Bhutto who sabotaged Kashmiri jihad and Sikhistan freedom struggle.
> b. Some have even accused Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, the illegitimate son of Shahnawaz Bhutto, of being an Indian plant. He had spent much of his youth as a playboy in Bombay. His role in orchestrating an unplanned Op Gibraltar and his stance in post-election 1971 are s e e n as proofs.
> c. Mustafa Khar, a top PPP leader and clan chief of niece Hina Khar, has been accused by his former wife,Tahmina Durrani, Maj Durrani's daughter, in My Feudal Lord of being guests of RAW along with full family in India. RAW even paid for their lavish shopping.
> d. Aitezaz Ahsan, Benazir's Interior Minister had handed over all contact details of Khalistan freedom-fighters to India.
> e. Altaf Husain is accused as a RAW agent by not only Pak media, but almost all Pakistanis.
> 
> 2. We in BD know very well who are working for India in our country. For much of this *we blame Pakistan for its role in 1971 and stance thereafter*.



This was a separation war , you got what you wanted , live happily now. There might be some mistakes by our rulers but history has passed away , and hope we learn from mistakes and do better in future.

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## Syed Naved

Bludgeon said:


> He is a Bihari.
> 
> 
> 
> Crime? Can you be more specific?


 do you not think that to support B.A.L is a crime? the party which mortgadged our nation to another country,party who sold our nation to another country...now people choose them for making govt? is not it a crime?

---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 PM ----------




StandForInsaf said:


> This was a separation war , you got what you wanted , live happily now. There might be some mistakes by our rulers but history has passed away , and hope we learn from mistakes and do better in future.


 truly said,but some emotionaly fools dont even try to understand it.but i oppose on one thing,it was not a separation war,it was at first protest against martial law which turned into a liberation war


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> It seems Bangladeshi don't need enemies when they have such types of nuts in their country. Morons supporting foreigners against their own home country cricket teams.


 You make me lough brother  dont mix war,politics with game.on which constitution of the world it has been written I'm a american so have to support america,english so have to support english,bangladeshi so have to support bangladesh.dont show fake pitty for bangladesh ,jab tumhara stars bd ki flag k upar khare ho kay gaana gatii hai ,tab toh tumlog bd ki upar itna pitty nahin show karte.due to farakka ,our people are suffering.... and about b.s.f , what to say.


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## StandForInsaf

patna_ke_presley said:


> It seems Bangladeshi don't need enemies when they have such types of nuts in their country. Morons supporting foreigners against their own home country cricket teams.



Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are two bodies with one soul  one day you will understand it Indian fellow.

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## TopCat

eastwatch said:


> Ai Kala Indur, Tu Jaise Razaakar Log Khud Darfok Hain. Bangladesh Ke Liye Tu Kyun Rola Macha Raha Hain? Tu Etna Na-farman Ek Banda Hain Keh Tu Cricket Ko Siasat Ke Saath Milaa Kar Baat Kar Raha Hain. Tu Asal Me Ajabgarh se Aya Ek Ajab Chiriya Hain. Tere Sajaa Bangladesh Ki Mitti Par Hi Hona Hain. Bangladesh Ka Khata Hain, Aur Dusra Mulk Ki Bandegi Karta Hain, Bewaquf Kahi Ka!!


 
Thats the best Urdu I ever read in PDF.

Kudos to you man.... 

Those so called Urdu Speaker of BD origin should see this.....


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## Syed Naved

Al-zakir said:


> Farhan, why are you posting this here. This is not a face book expose thread. What some one does in his/her private page his their business. Please remove this out of here. What if some one else post your real picture here. You could be in danger.
> 
> I also support team Pakistan when they play against any other team beside ours. As a matter fact, I was really hurt when they lost against Indian in last world cup.


 this silly guy try to said that,i'm against my nation,people.yes as a citizen i may have problems with my country,peoples attitude,but when i say i'm against my country?sport onething ,politics another.without understanding my point,he's doing this. and what is wrong of my comment? and i had clearly said ,one can go against martial law,system ,govt not against country. i dont said that,the decission of messacar was right.but it was better if we fight for democracy ,because pakistan was our country,so why would we say against it,why would i go against pakistan like a traitor.... ?another thing to be pointed.
the tribals of chittagong, were alien.they take shelter ,after scaping from arakanraj.we gave them shelter.now this idiots want 16% of our land,want autocracy !! with other contry's help they formed shanti bahini and killed bangladeshi.they even dont feel shame,don't even think during their danger ,we protect them ,how strange !!


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## Syed Naved

iajdani said:


> Thats the best Urdu I ever read in PDF.
> 
> Kudos to you man....
> 
> Those so called Urdu Speaker of BD origin should see this.....


 hmm realy,but with a lots of spelling mistake .


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## Syed Naved

StandForInsaf said:


> Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are two bodies with one soul  one day you will understand it Indian fellow.


 bhai yeh log agar nahin bhi samjhe to bhi problem nahin.kyun ki : 
&#1583;&#1588;&#1605;&#1606; &#1729;&#1605;&#1740;&#1588;&#1729; &#1575;&#1740;&#1705; &#1583;&#1588;&#1605;&#1606; &#1705;&#1740; &#1591;&#1585;&#1581; &#1576;&#1575;&#1578; &#1705;&#1585;&#1740;&#1722; &#1711;&#1746;&#1548; &#1740;&#1729; &#1593;&#1575;&#1605; &#1576;&#1575;&#1578; &#1729;&#1746; ... :smoking:

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## kobiraaz

Syed Naved said:


> this silly guy try to said that,i'm against my nation,people.yes as a citizen i may have problems with my country,peoples attitude,but when i say i'm against my country?sport onething ,politics another.without understanding my point,he's doing this. and what is wrong of my comment? and i had clearly said ,one can go against martial law,system ,govt not against country. i dont said that,the decission of messacar was right.but it was better if we fight for democracy ,because pakistan was our country,so why would we say against it,why would i go against pakistan like a traitor.... ?another thing to be pointed.
> the tribals of chittagong, were alien.they take shelter ,after scaping from arakanraj.we gave them shelter.now this idiots want 16% of our land,want autocracy !! with other contry's help they formed shanti bahini and killed bangladeshi.they even dont feel shame,don't even think during their danger ,we protect them ,how strange !!


 Consider yourself lucky as you are a student of Bangladesh Medical College where students politics is not active otherwise both Chhatradal and Chhatraleague both would have Chopped your hands off. Anyway on your facebook profile you wrote your political view is DAB. This silly guy is a prominent DAB activist and we are gonna meet very soon.....


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## TopCat

Faarhan said:


> Consider yourself lucky as you are a student of Bangladesh Medical College where students politics is not active otherwise both Chhatradal and Chhatraleague both would have Chopped your hands off. Anyway on your facebook profile you wrote your political view is DAB. This silly guy is a prominent DAB activist and we are gonna meet very soon.....



Dont get personal guys... Its advisable for everybody to stay anonymous. In a forum like this, sometimes we talk which we may not mean. Or sometimes, our views changes as we walk through our life. Dont make a prejudice or lasting impression about a person upfront only by some forum posting untill you know him personally and know him for a long long time. Chill..

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## kobiraaz

patna_ke_presley said:


> It seems Bangladeshi don't need enemies when they have such types of nuts in their country. Morons supporting foreigners against their own home country cricket teams.



Good observation..
they are not so many. Actual threat comes from another group who constitutes 10% of the population and many of them blindly support foreigners against their own home country cricket teams.............


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## InFn-0

@ Farhan please dont post personal information about anyone in this forum or any other forum, this breaches people's privacy. 

And regarding people supporting Pakistan in a match between Bangladesh and Pakistan, it is actually the person's choice whom he wants to support. But some people say they support Pakistan for "Islamic Reasons". For them here is an interesting picture.

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## Syed Naved

Faarhan said:


> Consider yourself lucky as you are a student of Bangladesh Medical College where students politics is not active otherwise both Chhatradal and Chhatraleague both would have Chopped your hands off. Anyway on your facebook profile you wrote your political view is DAB. This silly guy is a prominent DAB activist and we are gonna meet very soon.....


 dont even think that on your worst dream,okay. you dont need to worry about mine,just think about yourself.
i know more about dab and sachip then you did.but dab and sachip not our topic,silly emotional fool


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## Syed Naved

faarhan tum paagal nahin lakin obviously ek bewakuf ho


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> You make me lough brother  dont mix war,politics with game.on which constitution of the world it has been written I'm a american so have to support america,english so have to support english,bangladeshi so have to support bangladesh.dont show fake pitty for bangladesh ,jab tumhara stars bd ki flag k upar khare ho kay gaana gatii hai ,tab toh tumlog bd ki upar itna pitty nahin show karte.due to farakka ,our people are suffering.... and about b.s.f , what to say.



Whatever you think of politics that's your own wish, but when it comes to cricket or football, you support your own locality, not neighboring locality. This is the simple rule.


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> faarhan tum paagal nahin lakin obviously ek bewakuf ho



"Curious case of Naved Hrithom"


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> Whatever you think of politics that's your own wish, but when it comes to cricket or football, you support your own locality, not neighboring locality. This is the simple rule.


 &#2350;&#2369;&#2333;&#2375; &#2319;&#2325; &#2350;&#2370;&#2352;&#2381;&#2326; &#2360;&#2375; &#2325;&#2367;&#2360;&#2368; &#2349;&#2368;.......... &#2360;&#2354;&#2366;&#2361; &#2325;&#2368; &#2332;&#2352;&#2370;&#2352;&#2340; &#2344;&#2361;&#2368;&#2306;


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> &#2350;&#2369;&#2333;&#2375; &#2319;&#2325; &#2350;&#2370;&#2352;&#2381;&#2326; &#2360;&#2375; &#2325;&#2367;&#2360;&#2368; &#2349;&#2368;.......... &#2360;&#2354;&#2366;&#2361; &#2325;&#2368; &#2332;&#2352;&#2370;&#2352;&#2340; &#2344;&#2361;&#2368;&#2306;



maine aaj tak aapni poori life mein aapke jaisa namuna nahi dekha hai...

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## LaBong

PDF BD section never lets me down.

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## Zabaniyah

mmm...I really wonder what Gen. Tiki has to say to Mr. Naved.


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> "Curious case of Naved Hrithom"


 &#2340;&#2369;&#2350; &#2325;&#2367;&#2360;&#2368; &#2325;&#2379; &#2325;&#2369;&#2331; &#2349;&#2368; &#2330;&#2369;&#2344;&#2344;&#2375; &#2325;&#2375; &#2354;&#2367;&#2319; &#2350;&#2332;&#2348;&#2370;&#2352; &#2344;&#2361;&#2368;&#2306; &#2325;&#2352; &#2360;&#2325;&#2340;&#2375; ,&#2360;&#2348;&#2325;&#2379; &#2319;&#2325; &#2344;&#2367;&#2332;&#2368; &#2346;&#2360;&#2306;&#2342; &#2361;&#2376;,&#2347;&#2376;&#2360;&#2354;&#2366; &#2350;&#2375;&#2352;&#2366; &#2361;&#2376; , &#2361;&#2350;&#2375;&#2358;&#2366; &#2350;&#2375;&#2352;&#2366; &#2361;&#2368; &#2361;&#2379;&#2327;&#2366;,&#2349;&#2366;&#2352;&#2340;&#2368;&#2351;&#2379;&#2306; &#2325;&#2375; &#2344;&#2361;&#2368;&#2306;  ...

---------- Post added at 10:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------




patna_ke_presley said:


> maine aaj tak aapni poori life mein aapke jaisa namuna nahi dekha hai...


 i also never see people like you ever :smoking:


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## Syed Naved

our topic is about 71 not about me.without knowing anything giving or spreading false comments against pakistan is just a foolishness


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> &#2340;&#2369;&#2350; &#2325;&#2367;&#2360;&#2368; &#2325;&#2379; &#2325;&#2369;&#2331; &#2349;&#2368; &#2330;&#2369;&#2344;&#2344;&#2375; &#2325;&#2375; &#2354;&#2367;&#2319; &#2350;&#2332;&#2348;&#2370;&#2352; &#2344;&#2361;&#2368;&#2306; &#2325;&#2352; &#2360;&#2325;&#2340;&#2375; ,&#2360;&#2348;&#2325;&#2379; &#2319;&#2325; &#2344;&#2367;&#2332;&#2368; &#2346;&#2360;&#2306;&#2342; &#2361;&#2376;,&#2347;&#2376;&#2360;&#2354;&#2366; &#2350;&#2375;&#2352;&#2366; &#2361;&#2376; , &#2361;&#2350;&#2375;&#2358;&#2366; &#2350;&#2375;&#2352;&#2366; &#2361;&#2368; &#2361;&#2379;&#2327;&#2366;,&#2349;&#2366;&#2352;&#2340;&#2368;&#2351;&#2379;&#2306; &#2325;&#2375; &#2344;&#2361;&#2368;&#2306;  ...
> 
> ---------- Post added at 10:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------
> 
> main bhi nahi dekha,like you



Haan pseudo-Bangladeshi aapko kaun majboor kar raha hai, bas aap ke jalwe dekh ke hamara manoranjan ho raha hai...

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## Avisheik

LaBong said:


> PDF BD section never lets me down.



Take a swing of the peg and join the fun

---------- Post added at 01:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 AM ----------




Bludgeon said:


> mmm...I really wonder what Gen. Tiki has to say to Mr. Naved.



Is tiki banned forever or something??


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## Syed Naved

i dont wanna xplain anything to a indian silly puppet.puppet keep your suggession to yourself.and give it to your indian lover bengali brother. they will enjoy your note


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## LaBong

Bangladesh has pretty sad state of affair going on in medical sector, I mean medical students are supposed to be cream of the crop. No offence to you Farhan.

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## Maira La

Naved, stop wasting your time with Pak-obsession and starting focusing on your career/studies. Make your country proud! :bdflag: <- oh crap no bd flag  (MOD!)

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## Maira La

LaBong said:


> Bangladesh has pretty sad state of affair going on in medical sector, I mean medical students are supposed to be cream of the crop. No offence to you Farhan.



BMC is a private med school (a good one though). All the public med schools are insanely competitive. For all you know, Naved might have been misguided by a few mullahs and went off-track.


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## Syed Naved

sokol medical student e bd ke gorbito korse,kintu desh ki dieche ar jati e ba ki dise? dosh ghontai khata hok,ar 20 ghontai bd er okritoggo lok er dhormoi doctorder ninda kora.xception amra dhakaia ar bograr lokera. je desh tar protibhader morjada dite janena,je desh tar nagoriker adhikar kere nei se desh kono desh na. ar je deshe islam er biruddhe hinduani procher dekhe kisu bolle se jongi hoi,se jati nie kichu bolar thake na.


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## StandForInsaf

LaBong said:


> Bangladesh has pretty *sad state of affair going on in medical sector*, I mean medical students are supposed to be cream of the crop. No offence to you Farhan.



How could you say that ?


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> i dont wanna xplain anything to a indian silly puppet.puppet keep your suggession to yourself.and give it to your indian lover bengali brother. they will enjoy your note



&#2309;&#2327;&#2352; &#2361;&#2350; &#2346;&#2346;&#2375;&#2335; &#2361;&#2376;&#2306; &#2340;&#2379; &#2310;&#2346; &#2346;&#2379;&#2346;&#2335; &#2361;&#2379; !!!!


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## Maira La

Syed Naved said:


> sokol medical student e bd ke gorbito korse,kintu desh ki dieche ar jati e ba ki dise? dosh ghontai khata hok,ar 20 ghontai bd er okritoggo lok er dhormoi doctorder ninda kora.xception amra dhakaia ar bograr lokera. je desh tar protibhader morjada dite janena,je desh tar nagoriker adhikar kere nei se desh kono desh na. ar je deshe islam er biruddhe hinduani procher dekhe kisu bolle se jongi hoi,se jati nie kichu bolar thake na.



So what's your decision? Would you like to continue medical studies or take a different path that leads to Afghanistan?

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## Syed Naved

Apocalypse said:


> BMC is a private med school (a good one though). All the public med schools are insanely competitive. For all you know, Naved might have been misguided by a few mullahs and went off-track.


 toh tumi bolte chao,dhormer kalo chaya muche deoa hobe correct? tumi bolte chao ,goje chore durga asar bani correct ? ami misguided hoi ki na hoi,no matter,tobe islam er pothe asi.kintu tomader dhormo,islam er pokkhe bolle se jongi,muslim desh er pokkhe bolle rajakar.othocho sobcheye boro deshdrohita tomrai korso indiar kase desh bache,transit deoa atkano toh door ,indiar kon decission tomra na rakhe parso.ei ki sadhinota,ei ki bd? age bd banao ,then amio bangladeshi hobo.ar jodi ta na paro,mounotai buddhimaner kaj


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## Zabaniyah

^^^Learn to speak Bangla and English. And then come back.


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## StandForInsaf

Apocalypse said:


> So what's your decision? Would you like to continue medical studies or take a different path that leads to Afghanistan?



deleted  .


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## Zabaniyah

StandForInsaf said:


> And you seemed to moving to Indian ganga river and taking bath naked local black guys  .



Dude, whatever you say, don't come up with racist ****!

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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> &#2309;&#2327;&#2352; &#2361;&#2350; &#2346;&#2346;&#2375;&#2335; &#2361;&#2376;&#2306; &#2340;&#2379; &#2310;&#2346; &#2346;&#2379;&#2346;&#2335; &#2361;&#2379; !!!!


 now i'm not sure but confident,i'm on the right track.because anything which is wrong to a indians eye ,it means , that the wrong thing is right.

---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 PM ----------




Bludgeon said:


> ^^^Learn to speak Bangla and English. And then come back.


 are babbah !! bongo bhasar eto pondit eihane,jana silona go,bahe


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## genmirajborgza786

Syed Naved said:


> You make me lough brother  dont mix war,politics with game.on which constitution of the world it has been written I'm a american so have to support america,english so have to support english,bangladeshi so have to support bangladesh.dont show fake pitty for bangladesh ,jab tumhara stars bd ki flag k upar khare ho kay gaana gatii hai ,tab toh tumlog bd ki upar itna pitty nahin show karte.due to farakka ,our people are suffering.... and about b.s.f , what to say.



brother never hate some thing to the excess you might miss the many good things it has which you can share life is short live life to the fullest & not to the fight-est thats simply cruel have your opinion of course you have all the right for it but just remember that there are many inroads to understanding a country in your case its India so take it from me some one who has been there many times India is as confusing as it gets its as exciting as it gets the flavors just keeps changing, its an experience to cherish even difference of opinion is to relish whether one hates it or loves it _as the British has said it_ _one thing is for sure one can never get enough of India nor can one fully understand India_ on the whole you should at least go visit with an open mind at least one time to India trust me you will be amazed by the uniqueness that is called India you wont regret the experience of India

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## Syed Naved

StandForInsaf said:


> How could you say that ?


 wow !! realy mr.indian


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## Syed Naved

genmirajborgza786 said:


> brother never hate some thing to the excess you might miss the many good things it has which you can share life is short live to the fullest & not the fight-est thats simply cruel have your opinion afcourse you have all the right for it but just remember that there are many inroads to understanding a country in your case its India so take it from me some one who has been there many times India is as confusing as it gets its as exciting as it gets the flavors just keeps changing, its an experience to cherish even difference of opinion is to relish whether one hates it or loves it _as the british has said it_ _one thing is for sure one can never get enough of India nor can one fully understand India_ on the whole you should at least go visit with an open mind at least one time to India trust me you will be amazed by the uniqueness that is called India you wont regret the experience of India


 ami okhane ek baar na,char bar giechi. kintu oder foolish comment dekhe ki ar kora.


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## Maira La

Syed Naved said:


> toh tumi bolte chao,dhormer kalo chaya muche deoa hobe correct? tumi bolte chao ,goje chore durga asar bani correct ? ami misguided hoi ki na hoi,no matter,tobe islam er pothe asi.kintu tomader dhormo,islam er pokkhe bolle se jongi,muslim desh er pokkhe bolle rajakar.othocho sobcheye boro deshdrohita tomrai korso indiar kase desh bache,transit deoa atkano toh door ,indiar kon decission tomra na rakhe parso.ei ki sadhinota,ei ki bd? age bd banao ,then amio bangladeshi hobo.ar jodi ta na paro,mounotai buddhimaner kaj



Foreign affairs and religion don't go together. Transit has nothing to do with Islam. You're a really confused kid.

The old hags (begums) will either resign from politics or die, hopefully naturally, within the next 2/3 decades.

If all the dudes in the newer generations think like you, then, I'm afraid, the future is bleak. Siding with Pakistan is not the most appropriate approach to dealing with India. India is a huge country, and it's understandable that they'll have an upper hand in some of our bilateral dealings. Does not necessarily have to be that way, though. We need educated technocrats in the government to replace the corrupt uncles, who could care less about BD's future.


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## patna_ke_presley

StandForInsaf said:


> And you seemed to moving to Indian ganga river and taking bath naked local black guys  .



Once I was watching a documentary on Pakistani TV, a Pakistani was saying we used to insult Bengalis because of their complexion and height.

Now, you guys still retain that mentality.

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## Maira La

StandForInsaf said:


> And you seemed to moving to Indian ganga river and taking bath naked local black guys  .



That's very racist dude. Post reported.


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> now i'm not sure but confident,i'm on the right track.because anything which is wrong to a indians eye ,it means , that the wrong thing is right.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 PM ----------
> 
> are babbah !! bongo bhasar eto pondit eihane,jana silona go,bahe



You have really gone nuts. Being screwed both by your own countrymen and foreigners.


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## StandForInsaf

patna_ke_presley said:


> Once I was watching a documentary on Pakistani TV, a Pakistani was saying we used to insult Bengalis because of their complexion and height.
> 
> Now, you guys still retain that mentality.



Again propaganda it was ans to the person who was saying him to move to Afghanistan. 

We love pro-pakistan bengolis and they are our brothers and they will remain no matter what you try to propagate.

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## patna_ke_presley

StandForInsaf said:


> Again propaganda it was ans to the person who was saying him to move to Afghanistan.
> 
> We love pro-pakistan bengolis and they are our brothers and they will remain no matter what you try to propagate.




I saw that in your Dunya TV, Geo TV so you also know that this is not propaganda. Your love is still incomplete because Biharis are living life as Sub-humans in refugee camps and they want to do migration to Pakistan which Pakistan is denying to them.

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## Syed Naved

Apocalypse said:


> Foreign affairs and religion don't go together. Transit has nothing to do with Islam. You're a really confused kid.
> 
> The old hags (begums) will either resign from politics or die, hopefully naturally, within the next 2/3 decades.
> 
> If all the dudes in the newer generations think like you, then, I'm afraid, the future is bleak. Siding with Pakistan is not the most appropriate approach to dealing with India. India is a huge country, and it's understandable that they'll have an upper hand in some of our bilateral dealings. Does not necessarily have to be that way, though. We need educated technocrats in the government to replace the corrupt uncles, who could care less about BD's future.


 wait.wait ,wait? ami kokhon islam ar transit ek korlam ?? tomra ki ebhabei kothar bhito kotha dhukiye,oporer kothar mane bikrito kore ,kotha bolo? etai ki tomader sobhab naki?


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## Syed Naved

StandForInsaf said:


> Again propaganda it was ans to the person who was saying him to move to Afghanistan.
> 
> We love pro-pakistan bengolis and they are our brothers and they will remain no matter what you try to propagate.


 thanks brother. i want t say that indian fool now,no matter what you people thinks but my pakistany brothers are by my side.if they are on my side, i dont need any other thing.this is called brotherhood,islam teaches us so.pakistan and bangladesh is two body one mind.but you fools will never understand this


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## Syed Naved

StandForInsaf said:


> Again propaganda it was ans to the person who was saying him to move to Afghanistan.
> 
> We love pro-pakistan bengolis and they are our brothers and they will remain no matter what you try to propagate.


what propaganda? pakistan never propagate or spread any false rumour against bangladesh.they always help us during our need as a true brother.and it is india ,who always want to destroy islam,muslim.

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## StandForInsaf

Syed Naved said:


> what propaganda? pakistan never propagate or spread any false rumour against bangladesh.they always help us during our need as a true brother.and it is india ,who always want to destroy islam,muslim.



I was saying that India is doing propaganda against Pakistan and Bangladesh .


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## Syed Naved

Apocalypse said:


> That's very racist dude. Post reported.


 it's not racist, he said the correct thing. 
that indian fool realy seemed to moving to indian ganga river & taking bath naked

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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> it's not racist, he said the correct thing.
> that indian fool realy seemed to moving to indian ganga river & taking bath naked



No,we Indians take bath in Kachchha.


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## Syed Naved

StandForInsaf said:


> I was saying that India is doing propaganda against Pakistan and Bangladesh .


 g bhai,bilkul sahi.i also want to say that its india's nature to do propaganda against bd,pakistan. but they'll always say,they didn't do propaganda against anyone.but the truth is , india is the only country in the worl who has got a ph.d on " how to do conspiracy " & " how to propagate against a muslim nation"


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## StandForInsaf

patna_ke_presley said:


> No,we Indians take bath in Kachchha.



don't force me to post photos here dude.... censorship , do you want me to get banned ?

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## patna_ke_presley

StandForInsaf said:


> don't force me to post photos here dude.... censorship , do you want me to get banned ?



Yes, don't do it otherwise I will also post something from your Pakistan which will get me banned also.


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## StandForInsaf

patna_ke_presley said:


> Yes, don't do it otherwise I will also post something from your Pakistan which will get me banned also.



haha its just smell , someone got burned by truth .

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## patna_ke_presley

StandForInsaf said:


> haha its just smell , someone got burned by truth .



You think that Pakistan is a Utopian state.


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## Maira La

Syed Naved said:


> toh tumi bolte chao,dhormer kalo chaya muche deoa hobe correct? tumi bolte chao ,goje chore durga asar bani correct ? ami misguided hoi ki na hoi,no matter,tobe islam er pothe asi.kintu *tomader dhormo,islam er pokkhe bolle se jongi,muslim desh er pokkhe bolle rajakar*.othocho sobcheye boro deshdrohita tomrai korso *indiar kase desh bache,transit deoa atkano toh door* ,indiar kon decission tomra na rakhe parso.ei ki sadhinota,ei ki bd? age bd banao ,then amio bangladeshi hobo.ar jodi ta na paro,mounotai buddhimaner kaj



I do think you are mixing up Foreign affairs with Islam. If you think it's a misunderstanding, can you clarify how Islam fits vis-a-vis Indo-BD relations?


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> g bhai,bilkul sahi.i also want to say that its india's nature to do propaganda against bd,pakistan. but they'll always say,they didn't do propaganda against anyone.but the truth is , india is the only country in the worl who has got a ph.d on " how to do conspiracy " & " how to propagate against a muslim nation"



Khuda aapko gussaye Bangladeshi logon se bachaye. Bahut sari bhookhi Bangla billi ko Indur chahiye...


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> Khuda aapko gussaye Bangladeshi logon se bachaye. Bahut sari bhookhi Bangla billi ko Indur chahiye...


abe bakwas bandh kar,zyada bole gi toh tera tabiyat kharap hogi


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> abe bakwas bandh kar,zyada bole gi toh tera tabiyat kharap hogi



Like your horrible Bangla and English, your Hindi is also horrible,  Correct sentence is...

"Zyada bole ga to teri tabiyat kharab ho jayegi." *0/10 for poor Bangla, English and Hindi.*

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## kobiraaz

LaBong said:


> Bangladesh has pretty sad state of affair going on in medical sector, I mean medical students are supposed to be cream of the crop. No offence to you Farhan.



Medical studies in Bangladesh is better comparing to many other developed countries as there is no crisis of patients ..... As a student you get to examine all sorts of patients and you are allowed to do so 24/7 and patient compliance is good, they don't mind when a 20 year kid examines them as they are poor and taking almost free treatment in Public medical Hospitals..... In some developed countries you cant even touch patients....... Here a 3rd year student actively takes part in surgery which begins with suturing..... and you get a lot of dead bodies to learn anatomy...... But in most of the countries they use dummy........ People go to India mainly because of terminal diseases like Cancers as we lack technical capabilities as well as research facilities...... 
*
I mean medical students are supposed to be cream of the crop*

Yeah... But not in private institutions where you need 20 lakhs only to become Munna Bhai...... 

Anyway received a nice message from Naved........



> abe chatroleague er chamcha,chutiar baccha, tu keda bay. besi bokbi toh samne ay,thappor dia tor botris pati daat matite na phelsi ,toh amio naved na. gundagiri korbi toh tor chodna khanai gia kor.halai,ghugu dekso fad dekhoni ,sala.



I chose not to continue this foolish argument over net, following iajdani's advice. But if you want to meet me, I am all ok with this.... You have read in Udayan School just 5 minutes walk distance from my hall Dr. Fazlay Rabbi Hall. Oh you know about Dr.fazlay Rabbi killed by Pakistanis?? Anyway i saw your photo with my buddy Anynda Das who was a student of Udayan later joined me in Higher Secondary College.. So i assume that you are my classmate..... I am surprised to see you hang out with Hindus.........

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## patna_ke_presley

Faarhan said:


> I chose not to continue this foolish argument over net, following iajdani's advice. But if you want to meet me, I am all ok with this.... You have read in Udayan School just 5 minutes walk distance from my hall Dr. Fazlay Rabbi Hall. Oh you know about Dr.fazlay Rabbi killed by Pakistanis?? Anyway i saw your photo with my buddy Anynda Das who was a student of Udayan later joined me in Higher Secondary College.. So i assume that you are my classmate..... I am surprised to see you hang out with Hindus.........



Yes, let us ignore him here, the way he abused you he should be banned from this forum. He also abused me with his broken Hindi, the guy really seems nuts.


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## Al-zakir

InFn-0 said:


> @ Farhan please dont post personal information about anyone in this forum or any other forum, this breaches people's privacy.
> 
> And regarding people supporting Pakistan in a match between Bangladesh and Pakistan, it is actually the person's choice whom he wants to support. But some people say they support Pakistan for "Islamic Reasons". For them here is an interesting picture.



What's cricket got to do anything with Islam. I think Pakistan team is just better for many reason. And, some feel connected with them due to our past history. 

Kidding aside. But to be honest. Can we produce one Afridi? Ever. I don't think so.


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## LaBong

Back to the topic guys, enough with this tomfoolery.

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## integra

@Farhan, try not to sweat it for a Hilariously stupid kid .


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> Whatever you think of politics that's your own wish, but when it comes to cricket or football, you support your own locality, not neighboring locality. This is the simple rule.


 who make the rule? your mother india?


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## Syed Naved

StandForInsaf said:


> haha its just smell , someone got burned by truth .


 indians and some foolish indian minded bengali never want to know the truth .they just know to say against pakistan,islam along with their indian dada.


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> Yes, let us ignore him here, the way he abused you he should be banned from this forum. He also abused me with his broken Hindi, the guy really seems nuts.


 i'm not only his friend but classmate.tumi jodi udayan er e hou toh amake na chenar kotha na. anyway tomar all confusion ek kothai ami bhangtisi. 
ami bd ba bangalir against e bolini.ami bolte cheyechi jei bhabe bd amader desh bole amra bd er birodhita korte parina,temoni pakistan period eo pakistan er birodhita amader uchit hoini.ami martial law,genocide,yahya er biruddhe jate pari ,but why against my country ? aro simple kore dei. somotol er amra theke suru kore chittagong er chakma amra sobai bangladeshi,tai bd er sadhinota rokkha amader noitik daitto.kintu chakmara ki korlo,ora amader bangladeshider marlo,santi-bahini kore juddho ghosona korlo which means bd er against e gelo .jeta sompurno deshdrohita,bd er ek jon citizen hisebe ami,tui,keu e eta korte parina.thik eki bepar pakistan period eo khate.
ar khela ba sports sompurno alada bisoi,karo sathe karo somporko nei(politic,sports).khelate ami je kono dol support kori ,ja khusi boli,that is sport spirit. but ota oi pontoi.
tai bole tumi jodi amar oi comments ke politics er moddhe felo eta nehayet murkhota.tahole bolbo,rajniti somporkei tui poripokko na.pakistan support korlei keu,deshdrohi hoina.
so age valo kore,poro,bojho,then bolo.


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## Syed Naved

about dr.fazle rabbi. uni pakistan army na, razakar ar al-badr er kase mara jan.secondly,muktijoddhara silo indian agent,jodi mukti joddhara desh biridhi andolon na kore yahya,bhutto birodhi andolon korto ,tobe toh kothai silo na.kintu tara desh er biruddhe andolon kore,ar sotru desh er sohaita neoate tarao sotru bolei gonno hoben by law.dr.fazle rabbi onek mohan personality holeo uni nijer pesa chikitsa sebar sathe beimani koren ni.sotru-mitro sokol kei medical treatment diechen.specialy muktider,so he was killed.
ekhon jemon,chakma-bangali juddho holo.kono ek chakma pondit onek boro maper lok,kintu uni bd er biruddhe bollen ba jara bd er biruddhe bole tader sohaita dilen,to ki hobe then? takeo sahadat boron korte hobe.
ar sudhu pakistan army keno,world er sob army'r er one theme ," do duty by any means ". orthat ja tomake order deoa holo,ta bhul hok,suddho hok tomake kortei hobe.nahole tomakeo mere fela hobe.ekhane tumi robot ,tomar kono kotha nei,tomake sudhu adesh palon korte hobe.pakistan army o tai koreche.
during Iraq war,many american,british,french soldier Iraq e ei onnai juddher biruddhe silo.tara keu e sekhane jate chaini,marte chaini nirdosh iraqider.kintu as they are army personal,so kathputlir moto tader adesh mante hoeche.
during 1/11 e dhori.fakruddin er hate ki khomota silo,silo na.se sudhu tai koreche ja take moin u bolse korte.ar moin u ahmd o tai korse ,ja take america korte bolse,england,india korte bolse. 
onek kisui politician,army personel ra korte chaina ,kintu tader korte hoi baddho hoye.eta tader dosh na,kortobber karone ,ar hat badha thakar karonei ta hoi.
tui amake bolli pakistanider hotta.kintu asolei ki tai.matajihat,nougaon te oder camp e silo.mata jee hath high school e silo oder camp,pasei silo amar nana bari.amar mama toh freedom fighter silo.protidin basai muktijoddhara ase kheye jeto,thakto.kintu pakistan bahini sudhu amar nana ar amar ma er nana er jonno muktijoddhader kisu boleni.even serokom juddhou na.mataji hat e tokhon baloch regiment ase,oder captain silo ,capt.liaqat ali khan. 
uni mukti der anagona dekheo na dekhar bhan korten,uni onar battelion asar agei jokhon first ekhane pouchan juddher hath theke matajir lokder bachate tader ke mata ji theke doorer grame pathai den amar ammar nana muslim league er president toyob hazi ke bole.ar uni giei ei order diye den,"none will fire upon bengali or mukti".sei jonnoi pakistan army asar por o nirapode bohulok india te jete pare.
jodio oi somoi gota nouga ar mataji hat e pak army'r camp.kintu only because of balooch regiment bangalira nirapode paliye jate sokkhom hoi.
so dhalaobhabe kisu na jene bola thik na.


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## TopCat

There are clear convention in UN, categorized a legitimate freedom movement and separtist movement under armed struggle. If for any reason, the state fails to honor the democratic right of some part of the territory, that part have a legitimate right for asking for a separate homeland. In 1971, it was a freedom movement as East Pakistan never enjoyed the same parity and same status as the West Pakistan. It was not only democracy and martial law, but segregation in all aspect of state affairs. 

And the war was not started by the East Pakistanis, despite there were riots and street protests. War started by West Pakistanis, why not you go and ask them why the hell they started it? They attacked us, we defended ourselves and finally defeated them and have our own country. Whats wrong with that?

Think about BD army. Will it possible for anybody to order them to attack and start killing the civilians in this country? They will just decline the order. Same things happaend in 1971. The Bengali army did not follow the order and did not go and kill civilians as it was their own countryment. But non Bengali army did follow it as it was their enemy terrritory. 

Regarding, Chakmas, they had some genuine grievences. Their armed struggle did put us off guard, but BD army despite some excesses, did not go after civilians and randomly killing them. They always tried to make connection with them and finally came to a settlement with them. You cant compare Chakma struggle and 1971 with the same magnitude.

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## TopCat

@ Naved, Please write in English with separate paragraphs so that those could be readable.

We cant read, neither your Bengali, Nor your Urdu nor English.

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## Zabaniyah

iajdani said:


> @ Naved, Please write in English with separate paragraphs so that those could be readable.
> 
> We cant read, neither your Bengali, Nor your Urdu nor English.



Let him babble all he wants to. I actually enjoy it.

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## InFn-0

Al-zakir said:


> What's cricket got to do anything with Islam. I think Pakistan team is just better for many reason. And, some feel connected with them due to our past history.
> 
> Kidding aside. But to be honest. Can we produce one Afridi? Ever. I don't think so.



hmm.. ICC all rounder rankings Shakib Al Hasan no.1 and Shahid Afridi no.4. Anyway, i know you will say rankings dont mean much, so lets just forget it.

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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> i'm not only his friend but classmate.tumi jodi udayan er e hou toh amake na chenar kotha na. anyway tomar all confusion ek kothai ami bhangtisi.
> ami bd ba bangalir against e bolini.ami bolte cheyechi jei bhabe bd amader desh bole amra bd er birodhita korte parina,temoni pakistan period eo pakistan er birodhita amader uchit hoini.ami martial law,genocide,yahya er biruddhe jate pari ,but why against my country ? aro simple kore dei. somotol er amra theke suru kore chittagong er chakma amra sobai bangladeshi,tai bd er sadhinota rokkha amader noitik daitto.kintu chakmara ki korlo,ora amader bangladeshider marlo,santi-bahini kore juddho ghosona korlo which means bd er against e gelo .jeta sompurno deshdrohita,bd er ek jon citizen hisebe ami,tui,keu e eta korte parina.thik eki bepar pakistan period eo khate.
> ar khela ba sports sompurno alada bisoi,karo sathe karo somporko nei(politic,sports).khelate ami je kono dol support kori ,ja khusi boli,that is sport spirit. but ota oi pontoi.
> tai bole tumi jodi amar oi comments ke politics er moddhe felo eta nehayet murkhota.tahole bolbo,rajniti somporkei tui poripokko na.pakistan support korlei keu,deshdrohi hoina.
> so age valo kore,poro,bojho,then bolo.



Mera aapke jaise mahamurkh se nivedan hai ki kripya aap apni vaarta Hindi ya Angrezi bhasha mein likhe kyonki mujh saral manush ko Bangla bhasha samajh mein nahi aati. Aap 1971 ko leke jo kahein par aapke desh mein chahe koi Bharat se kitna bhi Yuddha karna chahe par koi bhi fir se Purvi Pakistan banne ki manokaamna nahi rakhta. Aap kripya yahan bakwas karne ki bajaye Pakistani Uchcha Aayog se guhar lagaye ki aapko wo Pakistan prasthan karne ki vyavastha kar de taki aap apni matribhumi ki taraf prasthan kar sakein. Kyonki Bangladesh mein aapke liye kuch bhi nahi bacha aur har koi gaaliyan de raha hai.


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## Syed Naved

InFn-0 said:


> hmm.. ICC all rounder rankings Shakib Al Hasan no.1 and Shahid Afridi no.4. Anyway, i know you will say rankings dont mean much, so lets just forget it.


 ofcourse ,it's a wrong ranking.there is no comparison with afridi,sakib is just like a child to him


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> ofcourse ,it's a wrong ranking.there is no comparison with afridi,*sakib is just like a child to him*



Your English is really horrible.


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## Syed Naved

iajdani said:


> There are clear convention in UN, categorized a legitimate freedom movement and separtist movement under armed struggle. If for any reason, the state fails to honor the democratic right of some part of the territory, that part have a legitimate right for asking for a separate homeland. In 1971, it was a freedom movement as East Pakistan never enjoyed the same parity and same status as the West Pakistan. It was not only democracy and martial law, but segregation in all aspect of state affairs.
> 
> And the war was not started by the East Pakistanis, despite there were riots and street protests. War started by West Pakistanis, why not you go and ask them why the hell they started it? They attacked us, we defended ourselves and finally defeated them and have our own country. Whats wrong with that?
> 
> Think about BD army. Will it possible for anybody to order them to attack and start killing the civilians in this country? They will just decline the order. Same things happaend in 1971. The Bengali army did not follow the order and did not go and kill civilians as it was their own countryment. But non Bengali army did follow it as it was their enemy terrritory.
> 
> Regarding, Chakmas, they had some genuine grievences. Their armed struggle did put us off guard, but BD army despite some excesses, did not go after civilians and randomly killing them. They always tried to make connection with them and finally came to a settlement with them. You cant compare Chakma struggle and 1971 with the same magnitude.


'' Regarding, Chakmas, they had some genuine grievences. Their armed struggle did put us off guard, but BD army despite some excesses, did not go after civilians and randomly killing them. They always tried to make connection with them and finally came to a settlement with them. You cant compare Chakma struggle and 1971 with the same magnitude'' ; ami kokhon ta korlam.kintu ja tumi bolle sompurno bhul.
clear evidence is also there.jokhon pillkhana te B.D.R bidroho holo,army was ready to attack b.d.r and stop genocide.kintu it was seikh hasina,jini ta chan ni.tai army personelder iccha thakar por o tara sei hottakando thamate pareni.ar seikhetre completly sohaita seikh hasina ke india dei.
kajei bd army jodi otoi sadhin hoto,tara sekh hasinar order omanno kore bhitore dhuke killing thekato,pore bole dito,"amra order derite paechi".ki hoto tate?keu morto,keu e morto na.otoeb tomader moto kichu gondo gobet jara indiar dalali koro ,ar oi sob indian babu jai bhabuk ,er jonno sotto kokhono bodlabe na.
India will always harm bangladesh,karon tara bd er bondhu noi.Pakistan e holo amader real frnd ,real brother.ar je ek jon muslim hoye onno muslim desh er nirdosh manush k galagal dei ,tader sathe kotha bolao bokami.otoeb ,tomader ja bhabar bhabo.
ar bipoder dine pakistan,iran,iraq,saudi e bd ke help korbe as all of us muslim and brother not india.
jara nijeder ke indian dalal banate pare tara sobi korte pare,tate aschorjo hobar o kisu nei.setai sabhabik


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> Mera aapke jaise mahamurkh se nivedan hai ki kripya aap apni vaarta Hindi ya Angrezi bhasha mein likhe kyonki mujh saral manush ko Bangla bhasha samajh mein nahi aati. Aap 1971 ko leke jo kahein par aapke desh mein chahe koi Bharat se kitna bhi Yuddha karna chahe par koi bhi fir se Purvi Pakistan banne ki manokaamna nahi rakhta. Aap kripya yahan bakwas karne ki bajaye Pakistani Uchcha Aayog se guhar lagaye ki aapko wo Pakistan prasthan karne ki vyavastha kar de taki aap apni matribhumi ki taraf prasthan kar sakein. Kyonki Bangladesh mein aapke liye kuch bhi nahi bacha aur har koi gaaliyan de raha hai.


 it's the barking of some dogs.some may barks like these editic fool,but all the bangladeshi don't.
maine kab kaha bangal ko purvi pakistan hona chahiye.jo maine bola hi naheen aap uspar hi amaal kar dia. marvelous.
aur ek baat,pakistan is pakistan.no matter how hard you some kind of fools try to break it,allah will protect pakistan.
aur bangladesh mein mere liye kuch bacha ya nahi uski chinta ap na kare to bhtar.kyonki jise aap bakwas bol rahe hain ,vohi sach hain.aur ek baat pakistan k khilaf aap log sirf bakwas hi kar sakte ho,uski alava aur kuch nahi.toh kripya pakistan aur muslim k khilaf bakas karne ki bajaye aap thoda history se knowladge gain kare

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## Syed Naved

iajdani said:


> There are clear convention in UN, categorized a legitimate freedom movement and separtist movement under armed struggle. If for any reason, the state fails to honor the democratic right of some part of the territory, that part have a legitimate right for asking for a separate homeland. In 1971, it was a freedom movement as East Pakistan never enjoyed the same parity and same status as the West Pakistan. It was not only democracy and martial law, but segregation in all aspect of state affairs.
> 
> And the war was not started by the East Pakistanis, despite there were riots and street protests. War started by West Pakistanis, why not you go and ask them why the hell they started it? They attacked us, we defended ourselves and finally defeated them and have our own country. Whats wrong with that?
> 
> Think about BD army. Will it possible for anybody to order them to attack and start killing the civilians in this country? They will just decline the order. Same things happaend in 1971. The Bengali army did not follow the order and did not go and kill civilians as it was their own countryment. But non Bengali army did follow it as it was their enemy terrritory.
> 
> Regarding, Chakmas, they had some genuine grievences. Their armed struggle did put us off guard, but BD army despite some excesses, did not go after civilians and randomly killing them. They always tried to make connection with them and finally came to a settlement with them. You cant compare Chakma struggle and 1971 with the same magnitude.


 un convention? are you talking about that un which is a buffer organization of america and israel ? or it is some other kind of un?


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> it's the barking of some dogs.some may barks like these editic fool,but all the bangladeshi don't.
> maine kab kaha bangal ko purvi pakistan hona chahiye.jo maine bola hi naheen aap uspar hi amaal kar dia. marvelous.
> aur ek baat,pakistan is pakistan.no matter how hard you some kind of fools try to break it,allah will protect pakistan.
> aur bangladesh mein mere liye kuch bacha ya nahi uski chinta ap na kare to bhtar.kyonki jise aap bakwas bol rahe hain ,vohi sach hain.aur ek baat pakistan k khilaf aap log sirf bakwas hi kar sakte ho,uski alava aur kuch nahi.toh kripya pakistan aur muslim k khilaf bakas karne ki bajaye aap thoda history se knowladge gain kare



Bhai maine to Muslims ka naam hi nahi liya aur aap zabardasti usse topic mein laane ko bekaraar ho. Kuch Bangaldeshi nahi, mujhe to bas kuch pseduo-Bangladeshi dikh rahe hain jo apne hi logon ko billi kehte hain.

Waise aapki Hindi aur English dono kafi khatarnak hai...


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## StandForInsaf

patna_ke_presley said:


> Bhai maine to Muslims ka naam hi nahi liya aur aap zabardasti usse topic mein laane ko bekaraar ho. Kuch Bangaldeshi nahi, mujhe to bas kuch pseduo-Bangladeshi dikh rahe hain to apne ho logon ko billi kehte hain.
> 
> Waise aapki Hindi aur English dono kafi khatarnak hai...



 please stay on topic no personal attacks.

thanks

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## InFn-0

I would request a ban on this Syed Naved guy as this guy is here only to flame people.

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## patna_ke_presley

StandForInsaf said:


> please stay on topic no personal attacks.
> 
> thanks



This Syed Naved is using very offensive words in Bengali, hope you could have understood little Bengali. He is being tolerated otherwise he deserved to be banned from this forum.

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------




InFn-0 said:


> I would request a ban on this Syed Naved guy as this guy is here only to flame people.



I understand little Bengali, this guy is spitting too much.


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> This Syed Naved is using very offensive words in Bengali, hope you could have understood little Bengali. He is being tolerated otherwise he deserved to be banned from this forum.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> I understand little Bengali, this guy is spitting too much.


 O.M.G what a invention ,scared  ... but my dear friend can i have a list of them ( those offensive words that i even not use ) ,what a lie !! 
this topic is about 71,so talk about it


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## Syed Naved

InFn-0 said:


> I would request a ban on this Syed Naved guy as this guy is here only to flame people.


 u guys use abusive words against me,and now saying i just here to flame people !! o man !! i never see such peoples like you,it would be better that we debate about 16th decmber ,71 . but u guys are doing personal attack,showing my personal information from fb ,which is a clear ciber crime.
lets talk about the topic ,debate and clear each ones confusion.but you guys doing just opposite .


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> Bhai maine to Muslims ka naam hi nahi liya aur aap zabardasti usse topic mein laane ko bekaraar ho. Kuch Bangaldeshi nahi, mujhe to bas kuch pseduo-Bangladeshi dikh rahe hain jo apne hi logon ko billi kehte hain.
> 
> Waise aapki Hindi aur English dono kafi khatarnak hai...


 just give me a simple advice? what will i call those people who hack others personal info aur uski bad uska kuch aur hi matlab nikal late hain.
maine toh kuch aur soch k likha,apne uski koi aur hi matlab nikala. that was a simple sporty status but you bring a political meaning of it !! very strange,maine itna silly person kabhi nai dekha  
Sport is Sport ,Politics another thing. Dont mix these two,otherwise u'll be confused .


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> O.M.G what a invention ,scared  ... but my dear friend can i have a list of them ( those offensive words that i even not use ) ,what a lie !!
> this topic is about 71,so talk about it



The words you used against Faarhan is enough to get you banned. Just revisit them once.


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## Syed Naved

patna_ke_presley said:


> The words you used against Faarhan is enough to get you banned. Just revisit them once.


 u again wrong , farhan did but i do not.he even threat me i did not.he stole my personal information.dont you think these are enough to ban farhan.dont say so much lie.


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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> u again wrong , farhan did but i do not.he even threat me i did not.he stole my personal information.dont you think these are enough to ban farhan.dont say so much lie.



He just took your real name and it was not difficult to find you on facebook. On this forum, you should not suppose to abuse other particularly the extreme words against him but personal information is not the issue.


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## kobiraaz

ok on topic............



> jodi mukti joddhara desh biridhi andolon na kore yahya,bhutto birodhi andolon korto ,tobe toh kothai silo na



It was political turmoil first, Mujib was launching his movements ( strike) against Yahya... But operation search light changed all equation..... It was do or die situation for People like Zia Ur Rahman and they started to fight against "The Country Pakistan" ... Now as i know you are a supporter of Zia, explain yourself..... logic behind Operation searchlight and Zia's role.... 



> .kintu tara desh er biruddhe andolon kore,ar sotru desh er sohaita neoate tarao sotru bolei gonno hoben by law.



everything is fair in war, we used India. India used us. Symbiotic. Zia also went to India from Kalurghat for military support....

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## TopCat

Syed Naved said:


> ar *bipoder dine pakistan,iran,iraq,saudi e bd ke help korbe as all of us muslim and brother not india*.
> jara nijeder ke indian dalal banate pare tara sobi korte pare,tate aschorjo hobar o kisu nei.setai sabhabik


 
Allah help those who could help thyself. You are always in a mindset that we need some X Y Z to help us. I seen the same mindset from most of Pakistani members as well. Look, not too many Bengalis really care about anybody's help. We are doing great.

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## patna_ke_presley

Syed Naved said:


> just give me a simple advice? what will i call those people who hack others personal info aur uski bad uska kuch aur hi matlab nikal late hain.
> maine toh kuch aur soch k likha,apne uski koi aur hi matlab nikala. that was a simple sporty status but you bring a political meaning of it !! very strange,maine itna silly person kabhi nai dekha
> Sport is Sport ,Politics another thing. Dont mix these two,otherwise u'll be confused .



*You asked me a question and I am replying*. I only know one thing,"Jahan ka namak khao usse wafadaari rakho." chahe aapke ancestor Iraq se aaye ho ya Timbaktu se. Bangladesh team kaisi bhi ho usse apne logon ka support chaiye hota hai, Pakistan team ko aap admire karte ho ghalat nahi hai par Bangladesh ke khilaf 100% ghalat hai. 

Ab aage aapki marzi, main koi advice nahi dene wala.


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Syed Naved said:


> about dr.fazle rabbi. uni pakistan army na, razakar ar al-badr er kase mara jan.secondly,muktijoddhara silo indian agent,jodi mukti joddhara desh biridhi andolon na kore yahya,bhutto birodhi andolon korto ,tobe toh kothai silo na.kintu tara desh er biruddhe andolon kore,ar sotru desh er sohaita neoate tarao sotru bolei gonno hoben by law.dr.fazle rabbi onek mohan personality holeo uni nijer pesa chikitsa sebar sathe beimani koren ni.sotru-mitro sokol kei medical treatment diechen.specialy muktider,so he was killed.
> ekhon jemon,chakma-bangali juddho holo.kono ek chakma pondit onek boro maper lok,kintu uni bd er biruddhe bollen ba jara bd er biruddhe bole tader sohaita dilen,to ki hobe then? takeo sahadat boron korte hobe.
> ar sudhu pakistan army keno,world er sob army'r er one theme ," do duty by any means ". orthat ja tomake order deoa holo,ta bhul hok,suddho hok tomake kortei hobe.nahole tomakeo mere fela hobe.ekhane tumi robot ,tomar kono kotha nei,tomake sudhu adesh palon korte hobe.pakistan army o tai koreche.
> during Iraq war,many american,british,french soldier Iraq e ei onnai juddher biruddhe silo.tara keu e sekhane jate chaini,marte chaini nirdosh iraqider.kintu as they are army personal,so kathputlir moto tader adesh mante hoeche.
> during 1/11 e dhori.fakruddin er hate ki khomota silo,silo na.se sudhu tai koreche ja take moin u bolse korte.ar moin u ahmd o tai korse ,ja take america korte bolse,england,india korte bolse.
> onek kisui politician,army personel ra korte chaina ,kintu tader korte hoi baddho hoye.eta tader dosh na,kortobber karone ,ar hat badha thakar karonei ta hoi.
> tui amake bolli pakistanider hotta.kintu asolei ki tai.matajihat,nougaon te oder camp e silo.mata jee hath high school e silo oder camp,pasei silo amar nana bari.amar mama toh freedom fighter silo.protidin basai muktijoddhara ase kheye jeto,thakto.kintu pakistan bahini sudhu amar nana ar amar ma er nana er jonno muktijoddhader kisu boleni.even serokom juddhou na.mataji hat e tokhon baloch regiment ase,oder captain silo ,capt.liaqat ali khan.
> uni mukti der anagona dekheo na dekhar bhan korten,uni onar battelion asar agei jokhon first ekhane pouchan juddher hath theke matajir lokder bachate tader ke mata ji theke doorer grame pathai den amar ammar nana muslim league er president toyob hazi ke bole.ar uni giei ei order diye den,"none will fire upon bengali or mukti".sei jonnoi pakistan army asar por o nirapode bohulok india te jete pare.
> jodio oi somoi gota nouga ar mataji hat e pak army'r camp.kintu only because of balooch regiment bangalira nirapode paliye jate sokkhom hoi.
> so dhalaobhabe kisu na jene bola thik na.



I want to ask you, What is the reason of the declaration of independence By the great son of our soil Major Ziaur Rahman ( I, Major Ziaur Rahman to be hear declared the independence of Bangladesh.)

He was not the betrayer to Pakistan in 1965 during Kashmir War with the rival India. He was the well-known War hero of Kashmir War for Pakistan to destroy aggressor enemies.

What was the reason? Which did turn him to take the steps for the survival of the great Bangladeshi Nation? 

There is no negotiation with the betrayers and killers(Punjabi cluster). We know our history well. Our leaders , Our army personnel were in their right way for the safe guard of the Nation.

Never try to play with the flag of Bangladeshi Nation by retaining the Bangladeshi flag in your profile.

We are well defined, determined to defend our great Nation.

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## Tameem

patna_ke_presley said:


> *You asked me a question and I am replying*. I only know one thing,"Jahan ka namak khao usse wafadaari rakho." chahe aapke ancestor Iraq se aaye ho ya Timbaktu se.



I don't think Naved's family ever...support the idea of Bangladesh (1948-1971) and they still loyal to Original Pakistan Idealogy approved by the 99.99% of Bengali Muslims against all odds instead of turning coats. In that sense they are truly just abidding by the same rule you stated above in detail not the other way around.

And why not their are manay issues which needs to be addressed and settled between Pakistan and Bangladesh as that sepration is not fully yet done from any country's point of view..!!!

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## Capt.Popeye

iajdani said:


> Allah help those who could help thyself. You are always in a mindset that we need some X Y Z to help us. I seen the same mindset from most of Pakistani members as well. Look, not too many Bengalis really care about anybody's help. We are doing great.



@iajdani
You are absolutely right. It is stupid to look for patrons. Even while using any or all kinds of reasons or justifications to so. Patrons while offering all kinds of help and assistance just end up becoming manipulators and masters. Our western neighbour had a very bad experience with one such powerful patron, now hopefully they will not seek another. 

Patrons cannot be friends, they will only be masters (my apologies to Gen. Ayub Khan who never understood the meaning of that expression).

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## patna_ke_presley

Tameem said:


> I don't think Naved's family ever...support the idea of Bangladesh (1948-1971) and *they still loyal to Original Pakistan Idealogy approved by the 99.99% of Bengali Muslims against all odds instead of turning coats.* In that sense they are truly just abidding by the same rule you stated above in detail not the other way around.
> 
> And why not their are manay issues which needs to be addressed and settled between Pakistan and Bangladesh as that sepration is not fully yet done from any country's point of view..!!!



*I think, you Pakistanis still don't want to concede your mistakes in East Pakistan the culture of killings, economic and cultural exploitation.*This guy Naved is from Old Dhaka from the community who migrated to Bangaldesh during Nawab's time and don't consider themselves as Bengalis. Bangladeshi hate India but they hate Pakistan also and you can get it by reading the comments of other Bangladeshi members on this thread and how they screwed Naved.


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## LaBong

Tameem said:


> I don't think Naved's family ever...support the idea of Bangladesh (1948-1971) and they still loyal to Original Pakistan Idealogy approved by the 99.99% of Bengali Muslims against all odds instead of turning coats. In that sense they are truly just abidding by the same rule you stated above in detail not the other way around.
> 
> And why not their are manay issues which needs to be addressed and settled between Pakistan and Bangladesh as that sepration is not fully yet done from any country's point of view..!!!



It was West Pakistan who broke up from United Pakistan. Just because West Pakistan had the military in control and carried out a genocide on minorities, that doesn't make them inheritor of Jinnah's Pakistan, does it? 

At the time of partitioning, more Pakistanis are living in Eastern Wing than the Western Wing, so rightfully Eastern Wing can claim the larger stake of erstwhile Pakistan, heck Pakistan movement started in Eastern Wing and gained momentum in Northern India, while West Pakistanis spent time sitting pretty and killing each other. 

"That in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindu and Muslims would cease to be Muslims ... but in political sense as citizens of the State" - that was Jinnah's speech in front of constituent assembly, and you still think West Pakistan was the Jinnah's Pakistan? By all means, you people are anything but what Jinnah dreamt you to be, maybe someday his soul would find peace by knowing atleast one part of his creation achieved what he sought for. 

1971 was a battle between Good and Evil, and Goodness triumphed, there's no two way about it.

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## Tameem

patna_ke_presley said:


> *Bangladeshi hate India but they hate Pakistan also *and you can get it by reading the comments of other Bangladeshi members on this thread and how they screwed Naved.



And that's the main cause of their current ID problem indeed. No sane Muslim amongst the diverse races of the Indian subcontinet (More than 500 Million) *do that simultaneously* except a section of Bengali Muslims. They are simply abnormal, and as commonly said...*exceptions don't make the rule*.

So basically problem is not rest with Naved but with others.


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## patna_ke_presley

Tameem said:


> And that's the main cause of their current ID problem indeed. No sane Muslim amongst the diverse races of the Indian subcontinet (More than 500 Million) *do that simultaneously* except a section of Bengali Muslims. They are simply abnormal, and as commonly said...*exceptions don't make the rule*.
> 
> So basically problem is not rest with Naved but with others.



Really, I will blame your history books for that(which teaches you conspiracy of Hindus and stupidity of Yahya Khan). *Anyway, it is 40 years exactly, and most people in Bangladesh hate India but still your so called 99.9% Pakistan lover Bengalis don't want to be East Pakistan again.*

Do you remember Zia ur Rahman, he fought along with Pak Army against India in 1965 but he revolted with all Bengali soldiers of Pakistan Army against West Pakistan dominated Army. Mujib was in Jail, it was Zia ur Rahman who led his people against Pakistan when West Pakistan started killings in Bangladesh. 

People like Naved, they came to these areas during Nawab rules, speak Urdu at home and don't consider themselves as Bengalis.

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## Tameem

patna_ke_presley said:


> Really, I will blame your history books for that(which teaches you conspiracy of Hindus and stupidity of Yahya Khan). *Anyway, it is 40 years exactly, and most people in Bangladesh hate India but still you so called 99.9% Pakistan lover Bengalis don't want to be East Pakistan again.*



You just misunderstood....I just want to reiterate that In 1947 the Pakistan Idealogy lovers Bengali Muslims are about 99.99% compares to the Bengali Muslims who agreed upon "Bengali Nationalism" and its subsequent Bangladesh in and around 1971 and in it specially comes in JI and Razakars which still constitutes more than 25% according to PM of India.

In that backdrop Naved Ideals are not Utopian but very encouraging indeed in a sence that finally the cornered and rejected people got some gutts to openly air thier views no matter what happened to them the next and for that I salute Awami league government current policies towards JI and Razakars indeed...The more AL supress them the more they spreads IA.


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## patna_ke_presley

Tameem said:


> You just misunderstood....I just want to reiterate that In 1947 the Pakistan Idealogy lovers Bengali Muslims are about 99.99% compares to the Bengali Muslims who agreed upon "Bengali Nationalism" and its subsequent Bangladesh in and around 1971 and in it specially comes in JI and Razakars which still constitutes more than 25% according to PM of India.



He was referring to India hating elements who don't want any peace with India, even we helped them in 1971 war. As I previously told you, they hate India but hate Pakistan also.


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## Tameem

patna_ke_presley said:


> He was referring to India hating elements who don't want any peace with India, even we helped them in 1971 war. As I previously told you, they hate India but hate Pakistan also.



He Hates India but he loves Pakistan just like in your country Indian Muslims Loves India and maybe dislike/hate Pakistan, moreover in Bangladesh AL people hates Pakistan but loves India and thats a *very normal thing *to do for a subcontinental Muslim...Indeed.

That's why i stated earlier that hating India and Pakistan simultaneously by a section of Bengali Muslims amongst the vast Subcontinental Muslims is a very Abnormal Thing...!! for that reason the problem lies not with Naved who are with majority but with those who are in minority.


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## TopCat

Tameem said:


> He Hates India but he loves Pakistan just like in your country Indian Muslims Loves India and maybe dislike/hate Pakistan, moreover in Bangladesh AL people hates Pakistan but loves India and thats a *very normal thing *to do for a subcontinental Muslim...Indeed.
> 
> That's why i stated earlier that *hating India and Pakistan simultaneously by a section of Bengali Muslims amongst the vast Subcontinental Muslims is a very Abnormal Thing...!! *for that reason the problem lies not with Naved who are with majority but with those who are in minority.



For the current generation, its not a rare phenomenon rather a common phenomenon. India and Pakistan are different country to us and we love Bangladesh. Pre 1947 sentiments and politics are fading away as the older generation already dead or nearing death. The newer generation hadly knows Pakistanis or Indians altogether. We dont have any love loss for neither India or Pakistan as we see India as a Hindu country and Pakistan is a extreme Muslim country. We are neither of them.

Besides, u should not use the extreme word HATE!!! I dont think people should hate citizen of any other countries.

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## patna_ke_presley

Tameem said:


> He Hates India but he loves Pakistan just like in your country Indian Muslims Loves India and maybe dislike/hate Pakistan, moreover in Bangladesh AL people hates Pakistan but loves India and thats a *very normal thing *to do for a subcontinental Muslim...Indeed.
> 
> *That's why i stated earlier that hating India and Pakistan simultaneously by a section of Bengali Muslims amongst the vast Subcontinental Muslims is a very Abnormal Thing...!!* for that reason the problem lies not with Naved who are with majority but with those who are in minority.



Bangladeshis hate India for river water dispute, enclave dispute, border firing etc. and it has nothing to take with Pakistan. And they hate Pakistan because of the killings, economic exploitation, cultural suppression and superiority complex shown by Pakistanis which Pakistanis still don't want to concede. 

Better arguing with me. See the comments posted by Bangladeshis for India and Pakistan.

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## Tameem

iajdani said:


> For the current generation, its not a rare phenomenon rather a common phenomenon. India and Pakistan are different country to us and we love Bangladesh. Pre 1947 sentiments and politics are fading away as the older generation already dead or nearing death. The newer generation hadly knows Pakistanis are Indians altogether. We dont have any love loss for neither India or Pakistan as we see India as a Hindu country and Pakistan is a extreme Muslim country. We are neither of them.



That's not the point the point is Naved Ideals are normal and the same as with the majority..!! Not only in Bangladesh but in the wider Indian Subcontinent...!!


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## extra terrestrial

Syed Naved said:


> yes ,its possible. one by one i explain.first of all ,from paternal side i'm from dhakaia nabab family and all knows that nababs language is urdu.my grandmother's mother and her mother's mother both were urdu speaker.my grandmothers father was a army officer and a doctor on that era.now about my grandfather.by grandfather's side we're from nabab family true but we're originaly sayed from baghdad of iraq.and sayed's are all from iraq to east bengal .they come here just during east india companies period,so arabic was there main language and all most all the sayed who are originaly of iraq know arabic /farshi.my mother's maternal grandfather know hindi,urdu,arabic,farshi.coz during that period they were compalsary and by heridatiary means we still save this practice among us. infact my maternal grandfather know hindi,english,urdu ,arabic reading and writing.so not for all but for us it is possible.arabic is li'll bit hard but hindi,bangla,urdu not at all.and the connection is by father side from father side i'm from a nabab family and from mother side from a landlord family . dighis,mango-garden,neel-kuthi of my maternal grandfathers family still on maskathia of rajsahi district .



Syed, I'm from the Nawab Family as well, my great grand father Zahurul Huq Khwaja Moulana Mia was a cousin of Sir Salimullah, but I'm *proud to be a Bangladeshi* and consider myself a pure *Bengali*!! My father and my uncles speak urdu but our generation(my brother and sister and my cousins) grown up speaking Bengali as the mother tongue that too for the wish of my grand parents and my parents as well!! I know, every member of the Nawab Family is proud to be Bangladeshi, those who aren't, are living in Pakistan!! Sorry to say but for a moment I really felt ashamed of being a member of the family where creature like you are born!! You are simply a disgrace to the whole family!!

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## Avisheik

This thread is opening up old wounds and creating hatred, i think that the thread has served its purpose. MODS please colse the thread

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## StandForInsaf

Tameem said:


> That's not the point the point is Naved Ideals are normal and the same as with the majority..!! Not only in Bangladesh but in the wider Indian Subcontinent...!!



Don't worry too much Bangladesh is non issue for us , *someone loves us we will love them* , if someone hates us ,we damn care about their obsession .



extra terrestrial said:


> I really felt ashamed of being a member of the family where creature like you are born!! You are simply a disgrace to the whole family!!



And i really felt ashamed that subhuman like you can type chat , and calling other "creature" only because of difference of opinion.

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## LaBong

Tameem said:


> That's not the point the point is Naved Ideals are normal and the same as with the majority..!! Not only in Bangladesh but in the wider Indian Subcontinent...!!



It would have been Okay had he taken citizenship of Pakistan(which he won't be granted anyway!). Consider the money and effort Govt of Bangladesh pays to make him a doctor, his primary and secondary education, the subsidized transport or foods, keeping the law and order, ensuring the sovereignty of the land etc etc; and what the country gets in return - "Bangla Billis". 

I'd say follow the Chinese for these sorry cases.

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## LaBong

I'd give you an example. 

Govt of India pays millions to make someone IIT graduate, then he migrates to states for greener pasture, got his green card and started badmouthing stinky, curry munching, brown Indians! What would you call him? According to your logic, as he is a citizen of USA and many Americans think same about Indians, so he is morally right!

Fortunately IITians contributed a lot for the country's cause.


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## extra terrestrial

StandForInsaf said:


> Don't worry too much Bangladesh is non issue for us , someone loves us we will love them , if someone hates us ,we damn care about their obsession .



We are just up against those guys who claims to be Bangladeshi but talks against it, don't think any Bangladeshi is against Pak here! Anyways after years of hatred for Pak, I slightly began to have a soft corner for Pak for some time having some Pak friends in my FB!! Hope I won't be turning out to be as before!!

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## TopCat

StandForInsaf said:


> And i really felt ashamed that subhuman like you can type chat , and calling other "creature" only because of difference of opinion.



Well, Bangladeshi's used to have a very good regards for that familly. They did so many good things for the community and in return they were loved and respected. Being a member from that familly, calling fellow Bangladeshis as Billis etc and hurl abuses towards Bengalis is really a shame for the very familly.

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## akash57

extra terrestrial said:


> Syed, I'm from the Nawab Family as well, my great grand father Zahurul Huq Khwaja Moulana Mia was a cousin of Sir Salimullah, but I'm *proud to be a Bangladeshi* and consider myself a pure *Bengali*!! My father and my uncles speak urdu but our generation(my brother and sister and my cousins) grown up speaking Bengali as the mother tongue that too for the wish of my grand parents and my parents as well!! I know, every member of the Nawab Family is proud to be Bangladeshi, those who aren't, are living in Pakistan!! Sorry to say but for a moment I really felt ashamed of being a member of the family where creature like you are born!! You are simply a disgrace to the whole family!!



Edit your post please bro, it's showing my name as the person whom you are replying to. Thanks


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## extra terrestrial

iajdani said:


> Well, Bangladeshi's used to have a very good regards for that familly. They did so many good things for the community and in return they were loved and respected. Being a member from that familly, calling fellow Bangladeshis as Billis etc and hurl abuses towards Bengalis is really a shame for the very familly.



Its a shame for the whole nation that we have place for these morons in our precious land!!

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## Al-zakir

patna_ke_presley said:


> People like Naved, they came to these areas during Nawab rules, speak Urdu at home and don't consider themselves as Bengalis.



Unless you are not unaware but Bangladesh actually ideologically divided nation between Bangladeshi nationalist(Islam as main principals) and Bengali nationalist(Bengali culture as principal). So, Urdu or Bangla speaker is not matter here. More than 60% of our population believe in Muslim first and other 40% including Hindu believe in Bengali first.


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## Al-zakir

Faarhan said:


> well, i didn't post naved's fb page here. and about the other two fb profiles they were taken from popular bangla blog already commented and shared thousand times by local Bangladeshis. So i dont think i have violated any privacy...........



If some one else jump form the building, would you do the same?

Those two individual not here to defend their stance, so why would you post their Photo's here for no reason. Bangladesh neither will be Islamic republic nor full secular nation. We will be stuck between Muslim first or Bengali first debate till Qayamat.'

Bd is a screwed up nation with screwed up issue. 2011 yet 71 is more important to some bigot then solving the dying issue like poverty.

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## Al-zakir

Tameem said:


> In that backdrop Naved Ideals are not Utopian but very encouraging indeed in a sence that finally the cornered and rejected people got some gutts to openly air thier views no matter what happened to them the next and for that I salute Awami league government current policies towards JI and Razakars indeed...The more AL supress them the more they spreads IA.


 
Actually you are right. Awami has done some good to strengthen the anti awami forces in the country. As a matter of fact, recently Begum Zia, leader of Bangladeshi nationalist party(BNP) has been calling Awami as party of thugs,cowards and traitors. 

You will see the doom day of Awami very soon and Insa'Alla we will eliminate these scums.

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## kobiraaz

Al-zakir said:


> Unless you are not unaware but Bangladesh actually ideologically divided nation between Bangladeshi nationalist(Islam as main principals) and Bengali nationalist(Bengali culture as principal). So, Urdu or Bangla speaker is not matter here. More than 60% of our population believe in Muslim first and other 40% including Hindu believe in Bengali first.



and there is third kind who dont believe in Bangladesh!

Anyway this kind of attitude is harmful for Islamists in Bangladesh. 

Let me give you an example.... 

I sent an sms to a shibir (jamayat) activist once... a urdu poem or sher most probably told by tameem here " mera kishti to oha dubi jaha pani kom tha" 

his reply was "if you want to tell me something, use Bangla" 

look how careful they are..... 

Normally he is very friendly with me. But his reply was rude just to prove his loyalty to motherland.

I am a great fan of him and his speeches. Let me share a story. One day he was arguing with a Bengali nationalist about Bengali language. That guy was saying " bangla vasha theke shob urdu farsi baad dite hobe" My shibir friend calmly answered " Baad is a farsi word which you are using " That guy just stopped and left ....... whenever i see those guys i become hopeful Bangladesh will be an islamic country soon. Saying Bengal Billi infront of Bangladeshis will hamper their hard works to win our confidence... Some people are very ignorant...


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## patna_ke_presley

Al-zakir said:


> Unless you are not unaware but Bangladesh actually ideologically divided nation between Bangladeshi nationalist(Islam as main principals) and Bengali nationalist(Bengali culture as principal). So, Urdu or Bangla speaker is not matter here. More than 60% of our population believe in Muslim first and other 40% including Hindu believe in Bengali first.



Well, what I pointed out is true. Even a person consider himself Muslim first won't use the offensive term "Bangla Billi" against other Muslim.


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## TopCat

Al-zakir said:


> If some one else jump form the building, would you do the same?
> 
> Those two individual not here to defend their stance, so why would you post their Photo's here for no reason. Bangladesh neither will be Islamic republic nor full secular nation. We will be stuck between Muslim first or Bengali first debate till Qayamat.'
> 
> Bd is a screwed up nation with screwed up issue. 2011 yet 71 is more important to some bigot then solving the dying issue like poverty.



What Bangladesh will be and its identity solely depend on Bangladeshis and who shows allegiance to it. It could be a Islamic country or it could be a secular decided by the absolute majority.

But anybody showing non allegiance to my country has no right to talk about what Bangladesh will or should be. By our law or any other countrie's law his citizenship could be revoked and put behind the bar for the rest of his life unless a thrid country comes forward where his true allegiance lies.

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## TopCat

Al-zakir said:


> Unless you are not unaware but Bangladesh actually ideologically divided nation between Bangladeshi nationalist(Islam as main principals) and Bengali nationalist(Bengali culture as principal). So, Urdu or Bangla speaker is not matter here. More than 60% of our population believe in Muslim first and other 40% including Hindu believe in Bengali first.



Yes, its not only Bangladesh, its the case for every country. There are center right and center left politics everywhere. But it solely rest on Banglaeshis itself and they are the one to decide in which direction the country suppose to sail. Its already decided that we will never implement Sharia law (even Jamaat declined) which makes us a Secular muslim country. BNP walas wants to say that they preserve Muslim identity which is a very minute differnce than that AL propagates. Ideologically at least. You could make it a big fuzz but I dont.


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## Zabaniyah

iajdani said:


> What Bangladesh will be and its identity solely depend on Bangladeshis and who shows allegiance to it. It could be a Islamic country or it could be a secular decided by the absolute majority.
> 
> But anybody showing non allegiance to my country has no right to talk about what Bangladesh will or should be. By our law or any other countrie's law his citizenship could be revoked and put behind the bar for the rest of his life unless a thrid country comes forward where his true allegiance lies.





iajdani said:


> Yes, its not only Bangladesh, its the case for every country. There are center right and center left politics everywhere. But it solely rest on Banglaeshis itself and they are the one to decide in which direction the country suppose to sail. Its already decided that we will never implement Sharia law (even Jamaat declined) which makes us a Secular muslim country. BNP walas wants to say that they preserve Muslim identity which is a very minute differnce than that AL propagates. Ideologically at least. You could make it a big fuzz but I dont.



Let me ask you something: Do the majority of the Bangladeshis know who they are? Or what they truly stand for? And how they envision themselves to the world? Envision does not mean that we have to be like the USA. 

Envisioning is a collective effort, not a one-man job like what Hasina and her ilks see. 

Al-Zakir is right about the split part. Otherwise, we won't be seeing the mess in the politics of Bangladesh right now.


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## TopCat

Bludgeon said:


> Let me ask you something: Do the majority of the Bangladeshis know who they are? Or what they truly stand for? And how they envision themselves to the world? Envision does not mean that we have to be like the USA.
> 
> Envisioning is a collective effort, not a one-man job like what Hasina and her ilks see.
> 
> Al-Zakir is right about the split part. Otherwise, we won't be seeing the mess in the politics of Bangladesh right now.



"Origination of Envision is not a collective effort". Envision comes from a single point which is supported and driven by collective effort. It reminds me a famous quote from Abraham Lincoln "I dont stand for what is popular but I stand for what I believe in". He was one of most unpopular US president ever seen and it was not easy to sell his vision to the nation.

Now if you ask every Bhuka Nanga bengali to become Lincoln than I am sorry. They are not fit for the job. But if you come up with a revolutionary vision than I can guarantee that you will find those Bhuka Nanga bengalis by your side. They did it everytime but were left behind.

And your Bengali/Bangladeshi split, its just a fiction of so called urban warrior. Ask any ordinary citizen on the street, they will just make fun about those funny politicians who made that a deal after all.


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## Tameem

Al-zakir said:


> Actually you are right. Awami has done some good to strengthen the anti awami forces in the country. As a matter of fact, recently Begum Zia, leader of Bangladeshi nationalist party(BNP) has been calling Awami as party of thugs,cowards and traitors.
> 
> You will see the doom day of Awami very soon and Insa'Alla we will eliminate these scums.



Sorry Zakir Bhai....but i compelled to hate BNP more than i hate AL.

AL people are Anti Pakistan was an Open Secret throughout 1948-1971 but Where are BNP minded poeple in that period.....if they are against AL idealogy than why don't they felt their presence in 1970 Elections at least?? JI and Razakars were alone defending Pakistan Idealogy and still defending their deeds courageously on AL onslaught while BNP opt only to live in the headlines on JI/Razakars sacrifices.

No offence but for me they are simply cowards first and than oppotunists at best, The recent by polls elections expose BNP popularity very much and i simply prey to God to wipe them out completely in next GE. AL wins no problem bcz For Pakistan BNP proves just good for nothing anyways in past, At least AL policies force eventually Bengladeshi people to turns towards Islamist Parties one day IA who have the gutts and courage to tie the bull by horns...!!

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## Tameem

iajdani said:


> BNP walas wants to say that they preserve Muslim identity which is a very minute differnce than that AL propagates. Ideologically at least. You could make it a big fuzz but I dont.



I'm 110% agrees with you...their is simply no difference between them Actually..!! 

Its just like lioness finally made a kill after huge hue and cry (1948-1971) and the next Mr. Lion came out in the end from his deep nap and snatching/claiming a big pie for one reason or another.

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## Al-zakir

Faarhan said:


> and there is third kind who dont believe in Bangladesh!
> 
> Anyway this kind of attitude is harmful for Islamists in Bangladesh.
> 
> Let me give you an example....
> 
> I sent an sms to a shibir (jamayat) activist once... a urdu poem or sher most probably told by tameem here " mera kishti to oha dubi jaha pani kom tha"
> 
> his reply was "if you want to tell me something, use Bangla"
> 
> look how careful they are.....
> 
> Normally he is very friendly with me. But his reply was rude just to prove his loyalty to motherland.
> 
> I am a great fan of him and his speeches. Let me share a story. One day he was arguing with a Bengali nationalist about Bengali language. That guy was saying " bangla vasha theke shob urdu farsi baad dite hobe" My shibir friend calmly answered " Baad is a farsi word which you are using " That guy just stopped and left ....... whenever i see those guys i become hopeful Bangladesh will be an islamic country soon. Saying Bengal Billi infront of Bangladeshis will hamper their hard works to win our confidence... Some people are very ignorant...



As I have said in my early post that Bangladesh is a screwed up nation with screwed up issues. 

We are supposedly 90% Muslim nation yet segment of our population is not sincere with Islamic ideology. Pakistan has many problems but they have no issue when when comes to nationalism yet we are so different that now a days, we have BNP-Jamat village, Awami village, BNP stores, Awami store and so on. 

Jamat-e-Islami philosophy is to make Bangladesh a Islamic republic, not necessarily reuniting with Pakistan. You are a Muslim too, so it's also your responsibiity to establish Islamic culture in BD. It's not only the responsibility of Jamat. I hope you are not planing to enjoy the free ride while other sacrifices. Are you?

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## kobiraaz

Tameem said:


> Sorry Zakir Bhai....but i compelled to hate BNP more than i hate AL.
> 
> AL people are Anti Pakistan was an Open Secret throughout 1948-1971 but Where are BNP minded poeple in that period.....if they are against AL idealogy than why don't they felt their presence in 1970 Elections at least?? JI and Razakars were alone defending Pakistan Idealogy and still defending their deeds courageously on AL onslaught while BNP opt only to live in the headlines on JI/Razakars sacrifices.
> 
> No offence but for me they are simply cowards first and than oppotunists at best, The recent by polls elections expose BNP popularity very much and i simply prey to God to wipe them out completely in next GE. AL wins no problem bcz For Pakistan BNP proves just good for nothing anyways in past, At least AL policies force eventually Bengladeshi people to turns towards Islamist Parties one day IA who have the gutts and courage to tie the bull by horns...!!



you dont have any idea about Jamat and BNP.

Jamat was with Mujib demanding power from military around 1970. During war they joined Pak Army Just because they feared hindu India......................

BNP was formed 7-8 years after independence.... Most of them were ex- Pakistani military officers who fought against pakistan out of desperation, but always hated India.......
*AL wins no problem bcz For Pakistan BNP proves just good for nothing anyways in past, At least AL policies force eventually Bengladeshi people to turns towards Islamist Parties one day IA who have the gutts and courage to tie the bull by horns.*
They dont claim themselves as Pakistan friendly...... they have no business with Pakistan. They antagonize india indirectly helping Pakistan. So pakistan is out of BNP equation.................

*but Where are BNP minded poeple in that period*

they served Pakistan in 1965 out of patriotism. They served Bangladesh in 1971 out of Patriotism.... Its simple to understand... if my neighbor attacks my brother, i will save my brother. If my brother attacks me i will save myself............

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## patna_ke_presley

Al-zakir said:


> As I have said in my early post that Bangladesh is a screwed up nation with screwed up issues.
> 
> *We are supposedly 90% Muslim nation yet segment of our population is not sincere with Islamic ideology. Pakistan has many problems but they have no issue when when comes to nationalism yet were so different that now a days, we have BNP-Jamat village, Awami village, BNP stores, Awami store and so on. *
> 
> Jamat-e-Islami philosophy is to make Bangladesh a Islamic republic, not necessarily reuniting with Pakistan. You are a Muslim too, so it's also your responsibiity to establish Islamic culture in BD. It's not only the responsibility of Jamat. I hope you are not planing to enjoy the free ride while other sacrifices. Are you?



Do you really think Pakistan fared better than Bangladesh. Even Pakistan is a Islamic Republic but their Karachi city is one of the most ethnically tensed city in the world, 1500 alone died this year. And their country has become proxy for Saudi Arabians and Iranians funded Shia-Sunni tensions.


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## Zabaniyah

iajdani said:


> "Origination of Envision is not a collective effort". Envision comes from a single point which is supported and driven by collective effort. It reminds me a famous quote from Abraham Lincoln "I dont stand for what is popular but I stand for what I believe in". He was one of most unpopular US president ever seen and it was not easy to sell his vision to the nation.
> 
> Now if you ask every Bhuka Nanga bengali to become Lincoln than I am sorry. They are not fit for the job. But if you come up with a revolutionary vision than I can guarantee that you will find those Bhuka Nanga bengalis by your side. They did it everytime but were left behind.
> 
> And your Bengali/Bangladeshi split, its just a fiction of so called urban warrior. Ask any ordinary citizen on the street, they will just make fun about those funny politicians who made that a deal after all.



I didn't say we have to compare ourselves to the US  Nor did I say that there has to be a revolution in Bangladesh. 

Mujib in fact did have a vision. Albeit a good one. The problem was that he wasn't able to articulate it properly due to the fact that he made friends and alliances with bad people. That made him set up a one-party state and since things weren't going smoothly, the guy paid with his life. 

I understand that most Bangladeshis want food on their table, a roof over their heads, and lead a comfortable life. But that alone isn't enough. The chaotic politics of Bangladesh explains it all. And that's exactly what the Bangladeshis worked toward.

You have no vision, you have no idea where you want to go. Yes, it is that simple! And not a single leader in Bangladesh had been able to do that other than trading cheap shots at each other and trolling. 

Can there be a revolution in Bangladesh? It is said that the Liberation War was an unfinished revolution. Only time will tell. And the factors are there. 



Tameem said:


> Sorry Zakir Bhai....but i compelled to hate BNP more than i hate AL.



First Pakistani ever. 



Tameem said:


> AL people are Anti Pakistan was an Open Secret throughout 1948-1971



There was no Awami League in 1948. 



Tameem said:


> but Where are BNP minded poeple in that period.....if they are against AL idealogy than why don't they felt their presence in 1970 Elections at least?? JI and Razakars were alone defending Pakistan Idealogy and still defending their deeds courageously on AL onslaught while BNP opt only to live in the headlines on JI/Razakars sacrifices.



What's wrong with having another party other than just AL?  And there were good reasons for the founding of BNP. Look up the history of the Mujib-era. 



Tameem said:


> No offence but for me they are simply cowards first and than oppotunists at best, The recent by polls elections expose BNP popularity very much and i simply prey to God to wipe them out completely in next GE. AL wins no problem bcz For Pakistan BNP proves just good for nothing anyways in past, At least AL policies force eventually Bengladeshi people to turns towards Islamist Parties one day IA who have the gutts and courage to tie the bull by horns...!!



You prey God? wtf 

Are you saying that the BNP works for Pakistani interests alone in Bangladesh? Or that it relies on Pakistani funds?  

Pakistan's problems and Bangladesh's problems are completely different. No use bringing them under the same microscope. I fail to understand why some people tend to relate Bangladesh's problems to Pakistan's.

And betting on Indian Army to slaughter a party with whom many Bangladeshis support? That's really cute. 

If you want Bangladesh to do well and be independent, then do respect the opinions of Bangladeshis. You nor the Indian Army do not have any right to deny that sovereignty.


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## extra terrestrial

Al-zakir said:


> As I have said in my early post that Bangladesh is a screwed up nation with screwed up issues.
> 
> We are supposedly 90% Muslim nation yet segment of our population is not sincere with Islamic ideology. Pakistan has many problems but they have no issue when when comes to nationalism yet were so different that now a days, we have BNP-Jamat village, Awami village, BNP stores, Awami store and so on.
> 
> Jamat-e-Islami philosophy is to make Bangladesh a Islamic republic, not necessarily reuniting with Pakistan. You are a Muslim too, so it's also your responsibiity to establish Islamic culture in BD. It's not only the responsibility of Jamat. I hope you are not planing to enjoy the free ride while other sacrifices. Are you?



Nope bro, even the JI leaders have been and will be seen in Puja Mondob during Durga Puja while being in the power, that's because the majority of the population wants a secular nation!! They may have expressed their vision to make Bangladesh an Islamic republic but its known to them also that its not possible since the majority are secular minded!! And I don't see any harm in that, doing that we wont turn into Kafirs, it will just ensure the right of practicing everyone's religion!!


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## Zabaniyah

extra terrestrial said:


> Nope bro, even the JI leaders have been and will be seen in Puja Mondob during Durga Puja while being in the power, that's because the majority of the population wants a secular nation!! They may have expressed their vision to make Bangladesh an Islamic republic but its known to them also that its not possible since the majority are secular minded!! And I don't see any harm in that, doing that we wont turn into Kafirs, it will just ensure the right of practicing everyone's religion!!



Muslims can still visit and check out Durga Puja places. Not worship them. 

But yes, you are right. Most Bangladeshis opt for a secular state, but at the same time religious-minded. And also ensure the rights of minorities.

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## TopCat

extra terrestrial said:


> Nope bro, even the JI leaders have been and will be seen in Puja Mondob during Durga Puja while being in the power, that's because the majority of the population wants a secular nation!! They may have expressed their vision to make Bangladesh an Islamic republic but its known to them also that its not possible since the majority are secular minded!! And I don't see any harm in that, doing that we wont turn into Kafirs, it will just ensure the right of practicing everyone's religion!!



You are right on the money. Did you ever seen JI propagated for Sharia law?? Only in their constitution they used to remotely say that the law should be made by Allah which they changed last time replacing with "Law should be made by the parliament". In none of their election menifesto they ever said about implementing "Saria Law". They know it very well that this kind of comment could bring their popularity down to zero and will have zero probability of winning a single seat.

---------- Post added at 06:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 PM ----------




Al-zakir said:


> As I have said in my early post that Bangladesh is a screwed up nation with screwed up issues.
> 
> *We are supposedly 90% Muslim nation yet segment of our population is not sincere with Islamic ideology. Pakistan has many problems but they have no issue when when comes to nationalism* yet we are so different that now a days, we have BNP-Jamat village, Awami village, BNP stores, Awami store and so on.
> 
> Jamat-e-Islami philosophy is to make Bangladesh a Islamic republic, not necessarily reuniting with Pakistan. You are a Muslim too, so it's also your responsibiity to establish Islamic culture in BD. It's not only the responsibility of Jamat. I hope you are not planing to enjoy the free ride while other sacrifices. Are you?



Just look into the HIV prevalance in Pakistan and Bangladesh. That will certainly tell you many things.

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## Zabaniyah

iajdani said:


> You are right on the money. Did you ever seen JI propagated for Sharia law?? Only in their constitution they used to remotely say that the law should be made by Allah which they changed last time replacing with "Law should be made by the parliament". In none of their election menifesto they ever said about implementing "Saria Law". They know it very well that this kind of comment could bring their popularity down to zero and will have zero probability of winning a single seat.



The JI are in fact no different from the AL and the BNP. The same result through different shenanigans.

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## extra terrestrial

Bludgeon said:


> Muslims can still visit and check out Durga Puja places. Not worship them.



I was also saying that they just visited those to just check out!!



Bludgeon said:


> But yes, you are right. Most Bangladeshis opt for a secular state, but at the same time religious-minded. And also ensure the rights of minorities.



Exactly, the Sylhetis are believed to be the most pious Muslims in Bangladesh, but then again you will find number of Hindus in that region living peacefully!!


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## kobiraaz

Al-zakir said:


> As I have said in my early post that Bangladesh is a screwed up nation with screwed up issues.
> 
> We are supposedly 90% Muslim nation yet segment of our population is not sincere with Islamic ideology. Pakistan has many problems but they have no issue when when comes to nationalism yet we are so different that now a days, we have BNP-Jamat village, Awami village, BNP stores, Awami store and so on.
> 
> Jamat-e-Islami philosophy is to make Bangladesh a Islamic republic, not necessarily reuniting with Pakistan. You are a Muslim too, so it's also your responsibiity to establish Islamic culture in BD. It's not only the responsibility of Jamat. I hope you are not planing to enjoy the free ride while other sacrifices. Are you?





People of Bengal supported Islam in 1947. they even had to go through riots to get muslim Pakistan and separate from Hindu India. What did they get in return??? Humiliation for 24 years followed by genocide?? You are Bangladeshi, so you will know better... out of what circumstance people joined mukti bahini ??

Now people doesnt believe in Islamic rule... To them Pakistan used Islam to rule, now Jamat wants to do so. Shoja Banglay dhormo niye Bebsha! theres a saying........

" ghor pora goru shidure megh dekhle doray" 

Give them base, give them hope. They will start supporting Islam again. Unfortunately Jamat failed to do so and there is no other active Islamic party...... Muslim Brotherhood should extend their politics in Bangladesh. I can assure you if they keep Rajakars out of their party and take Bangladesh seriously they will be in power very soon...........

---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------




extra terrestrial said:


> Nope bro, even the JI leaders have been and will be seen in Puja Mondob during Durga Puja while being in the power, that's because the majority of the population wants a secular nation!! They may have expressed their vision to make Bangladesh an Islamic republic but its known to them also that its not possible since the majority are secular minded!! And I don't see any harm in that, doing that we wont turn into Kafirs, it will just ensure the right of practicing everyone's religion!!



majority is secular minded?? where did you get that?? last time when secularism was talk of the country.... I used to follow popular facebook groups and polls...... Always seemed to me Islam vs secularism ratio 60:40.

*P.S> our mainstream media and civil society is secular. and that may give you wrong impression.*


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Syed Naved said:


> First Of All Shukriya.Yes Our Ancestor Used Urdu,Personaly I Myself From A nawab & Jamindar Family.So I Know About This And Heard Many Things About Our Ancestor.We Used Urdu Not Because Only Islam But Also Because Most Of The Syed,Nabab Were From Iraqi Origin.So We Love Islamic Culture And Different Then Rest .But Yes ! We Also Know Bangla And Dont Have Any Hatred For It.
> It Is Also true jinnah Said So.Because The Theme Of Partition Was " 1 for Muslim 1 for Hindu".And when Pakistan created like hindi he want that(urdu) as common language.As the main motive was all the muslim from both wings will be united .and i think ,Quaid want this ta'kii dono part mein kisi bhi type ki difference na rahein on all aspect but he failed to make it understand.But However Later Bengali get it's official language honour.But what actualy need on that time was bring urdu culture closer slowly to us.like now we all know hindi language,speak on it sometimes.if Jinnah said ,"URDU WOULD BE THE STATE LANGUAGE OF PAKISTAN AS WELL AS HINDI ON INDIA.BUT PEOPLE WOULD GET EVERY RIGHT TO USE THEIR REGIONAL LANGUAGE LIKE ON INDIA TAMIL ALPHABET USED IN KERALA,BANGLA ON WEST....." This misunderstanding would never create.Infact I think Quaid yehi bolna chaha,lakin iska galat matlab nikala gaya.quaid ka matlab ye tha urdu would be state language usi tarha jis tarha hindi on india.kiyun ki india mein hindi speaker very rare,a lot of people dont even undrstnd it still.




Orai Amar Mokher Vasha Kaira Nebar Chay

Ora Kothai Kothai Shikol Porai


Kothai Kothai Shikol Porai 

Amaderi Hate Pai

Orai Amar Mokher Vasha 

Kaira Nebar Chai


Those stooges are not yet finished.

Je jon Bangladeshete jonme hingshe Bangladeshi shobdo tara Bagdadi( shondeho ase) rokter ata nirnoi kora gese!!!!!

Bravo!!!!!!!


Collaborators are found.


In fact , every Nation is created by the Almighty. Bangladeshi Nation is the creation of the Almighty. Certain Geographic condition ensures the development of a Nation. The people who does not believe this truth iare must collaborators and followers of the Satan, Betrayer to own soil. They are grasper. They love the cluster of the grasper to suck the blood of the human as like Animal.

Be careful!

Nations are created as per the wish of the Almighty. Mind it to get the mental satisfaction.


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## kobiraaz

and about Jamate Islami...

yes they are hypocrite, they are Islamist 

and they bow to women..................

But they are corruptionless.


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## Zabaniyah

Al-zakir said:


> As I have said in my early post that Bangladesh is a screwed up nation with screwed up issues.



Screwed up as in dystopian? Bangladesh is only 40 years old and had partial democracy for a short period of time. It's too early to say that it is dystopian. 

Bangladesh had to endure many challenges, even with a stupid government. And many were done so successfully.

It isn't easy to start from scratch under many difficulties. 



Al-zakir said:


> We are supposedly 90% Muslim nation yet segment of our population is not sincere with Islamic ideology. Pakistan has many problems but they have no issue when when comes to nationalism yet we are so different that now a days, we have BNP-Jamat village, Awami village, BNP stores, Awami store and so on.



Pakistan is a another complicated issue with global implications. And that's not the case here. 

Religion is a personal thing. I wouldn't say that just by following an Islamic ideology would make Bangladesh better. And it can potentially endanger minorities if done so.



Al-zakir said:


> Jamat-e-Islami philosophy is to make Bangladesh a Islamic republic, not necessarily reuniting with Pakistan. You are a Muslim too, so it's also your responsibiity to establish Islamic culture in BD. It's not only the responsibility of Jamat. I hope you are not planing to enjoy the free ride while other sacrifices. Are you?



JI is just like the AL and BNP. They say this and that, but nothing concrete. 

And for your information, Islam is not a culture, it's a religion. No one can take away faith.

And what are these 'sacrifices' are you talking about?

What can make Bangladesh better? Work hard. Have goals. Have vision. Be honest. Be straightforward and upfront. And most importantly, do not have any hidden agendas, this only does more harm than good. 

This was said by a well renowned Turkish businessmen. And Turkey is a Muslim-majority country and a secular one. And it's a thriving and a prosperous one.

Secularism does not strictly mean it has to violate Islam.

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## Al-zakir

extra terrestrial said:


> I
> Exactly, the Sylhetis are believed to be the most pious Muslims in Bangladesh, but then again you will find number of Hindus in that region living peacefully!!



I am from Sylhet and this why we usually do not go out side of our district to get married. Main reason is that we find you guys very unislamic. 

Yes, we do have Hindus in our district but there is no reason for me to become Bengali culture secularist. No reason for me to believe that Bengali culture is mine and Islamic culture came from outside. In Sylhet, we also have secular minded people who love Hindu culture, like my friend Iajdani here but there number is in few. They are minority.


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## extra terrestrial

Faarhan said:


> majority is secular minded?? where did you get that?? last time when secularism was talk of the country.... I used to follow popular facebook groups and polls...... Always seemed to me Islam vs secularism ratio 60:40.
> 
> *P.S> our mainstream media and civil society is secular. and that may give you wrong impression.*



Nope, its very much clear that the majority are secular minded, I've given few examples as well!! And the group wouldn't be even the 1% of Bangladesh!! So how can you judge it??


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## kobiraaz

extra terrestrial said:


> Nope, its very much clear that the majority are secular minded, I've given few examples as well!! And the group wouldn't be even the 1% of Bangladesh!! So how can you judge it??



Sampling is a term used in statistics...


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## extra terrestrial

Al-zakir said:


> I am from Sylhet and this why we usually do not go out side of our district to get married. Main reason is that we find you guys very unislamic.



Well, there's nothing to do with those who live in delusion!! If someone doesn't match with your opinion, then he's unIslamic?? Even Prophet (PBUH) has said to let the non-Muslims to practice their own religion, don't force Islam upon them, doesn't it seem a secular minded opinion?


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## Al-zakir

extra terrestrial said:


> Nope bro, even the JI leaders have been and will be seen in Puja Mondob during Durga Puja while being in the power, that's because the majority of the population wants a secular nation!! They may have expressed their vision to make Bangladesh an Islamic republic but its known to them also that its not possible since the majority are secular minded!! And I don't see any harm in that, doing that we wont turn into Kafirs, it will just ensure the right of practicing everyone's religion!!


 
Going to Puja Mondop and wish them is one thing but calling their God as ma durga is haram every possible ways. A secular minded people will say it and will make them Mushrik. 

Most Bangladeshis aren't secular minded rather moderate minded. If we all were secular then why do you think Awami kept Bismillah and state religion Islam in the constitution. Although I believe it's deception and pure munafiqi but this actually prove majority Bd isn't secular. As a matter of fact, when BNP come to office, they will amend the constitution and Islamize it again. 

Secularism may not make you Kafir but it will make you less Islamic in loger process.


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## extra terrestrial

Al-zakir said:


> Going to Puja Mondop and wish them is one thing but calling their God as ma durga is haram every possible ways. A secular minded people will say it and will make them Mushrik.



I consider myself as secular-minded, but still always believed in Allah only, and all the secular minded people are the same!!



> Secularism may not make you Kafir but it will make you less Islamic in loger process.



Its up to you, how strong your imaan is!! If your imaan loosen up, you will be non-Islamic no matter if you are secular-minded or not!!


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## Al-zakir

extra terrestrial said:


> Well, there's nothing to do with those who live in delusion!! If someone doesn't match with your opinion, then he's unIslamic?? Even Prophet (PBUH) has said to let the non-Muslims to practice their own religion, don't force Islam upon them, doesn't it seem a secular minded opinion?



You are confused between secularism and moderation. Islam tell us to be moderate. Neither too extreme nor too loose. Secularism mean: you are neutral when comes to religion. Simply mean there is no difference between religions. All are same. You are not taking any particular side. But, a Muslim can not believe that there are other true religion beside Islam. Islam is the only true religion and Qur'an is the true words of Allah(s.w.t). Another word, if you believe that Hinduism a true religion then you are no longer Muslim because you have deviated from fundamental faith of Islam that la ilaha illa allah. I hope I made it clear. 

Please read Surah Kafiroon with meaning to understand what I am trying convey here.

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## kobiraaz

extra terrestrial said:


> Well, there's nothing to do with those who live in delusion!! If someone doesn't match with your opinion, then he's unIslamic?? Even Prophet (PBUH) has said to let the non-Muslims to practice their own religion, don't force Islam upon them, doesn't it seem a secular minded opinion?


That depends on the definition of secularism. At present secularism in Bangladesh means less islamisation..... Whereas Islamic Secularism means non muslims have every possible rights which was maintained by muslim rulers always ........ Secularism in a muslim country will never work. Wearing scarf was banned in Turkey, army officers in Tunisia were not allowed to pray. Now they both voting for islamists.......... You cant rename a 'jele polli' just because a kumar or kamar lives there. You just cant impose secularism on Muslims. They will always look for their holy book at one point... you have noticed maybe many Hindu mandirs were attacked during hasina's term which is unusal. These were outcome of retaliation against secularism...


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## Zabaniyah

Faarhan said:


> *That depends on the definition of secularism.* At present secularism in Bangladesh means less islamisation..... Whereas Islamic Secularism means non muslims have every possible rights which was maintained by muslim rulers always ........ *Secularism in a muslim country will never work.*



There is no such thing as having different meanings of secularism. 



Faarhan said:


> Wearing scarf was banned in Turkey,



Only in universities. 



Faarhan said:


> army officers in Tunisia were not allowed to pray.



Where did you get this?



Faarhan said:


> Now they both voting for islamists.......... You cant rename a 'jele polli' just because a kumar or kamar lives there. You just cant impose secularism on Muslims. They will always look for their holy book at one point...



What is an Islamist? Good God...



Faarhan said:


> you have noticed maybe many Hindu mandirs were attacked during hasina's term which is unusal. These were outcome of retaliation against secularism...



Can you name any government after the end of the Ershad era that can at least run the country properly as a government should? The answer is only half way.

Best not to listen to those Hiz-ut-Tahir nutjobs.

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## patna_ke_presley

Faarhan said:


> That depends on the definition of secularism. At present secularism in Bangladesh means less islamisation..... Whereas Islamic Secularism means non muslims have every possible rights which was maintained by muslim rulers always ........ Secularism in a muslim country will never work. Wearing scarf was banned in Turkey, army officers in Tunisia were not allowed to pray. Now they both voting for islamists.......... You cant rename a 'jele polli' just because a kumar or kamar lives there. You just cant impose secularism on Muslims. They will always look for their holy book at one point... you have noticed maybe many Hindu mandirs were attacked during hasina's term which is unusal. These were outcome of retaliation against secularism...



Banning Burqa or preventing someone for praying is not the part of secularism. Its means that Muslims should live their own way and Hindus should live their own way without interfering in each others' matter and people should not be forced to abandon some religious beliefs. If someone has a qualification and he deserved to be Prime Minister, and his religion should not decide that. Mixing politics with religion only brings more extremism and intolerance in the society.


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## TopCat

Faarhan said:


> That depends on the definition of secularism. At present secularism in Bangladesh means less islamisation..... Whereas Islamic Secularism means non muslims have every possible rights which was maintained by muslim rulers always ........ Secularism in a muslim country will never work. Wearing scarf was banned in Turkey, army officers in Tunisia were not allowed to pray. Now they both voting for islamists.......... You cant rename a 'jele polli' just because a kumar or kamar lives there. You just cant impose secularism on Muslims. They will always look for their holy book at one point... you have noticed maybe many Hindu mandirs were attacked during hasina's term which is unusal. These were outcome of retaliation against secularism...



When comes to secularism people only bring bad example and lab lab la....
What we want is the complete separation of State and Religion. State should not say, somebody should/should not wear Scarf. Thats not secularism rather anti freedom. Secularism means, state should not interfere with anybody who wants to perform his/her religion. For instance if somebody wants to wear Hijab, the state should not interfere. Also state should not perform any religion by itself, like reciting quran in the parliament or performing Dua while inaugerating bridges etc.

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## kobiraaz

iajdani said:


> When comes to secularism people only bring bad example and lab lab la....
> What we want is the complete separation of State and Religion. State should not say, somebody should/should not wear Scarf. Thats not secularism rather anti freedom. Secularism means, state should not interfere with anybody who wants to perform his/her religion. For instance if somebody wants to wear Hijab, the state should not interfere. Also state should not perform any religion by itself, like reciting quran in the parliament or performing Dua while inaugerating bridges etc.



in easy words- we should keep Islam within ourselves only... That makes sense.

But it is not Islam and half of your countrymen don't buy this..... Islam was always involved in State politics showed by Prophet (SM). It has political, financial goals....

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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Founder of Jamati Vondo , Vondo Maododi is the congress agent. He formed the Jamati Vondo in 1941 in Lahore to oppose the Muslim League, Lahore Proposal( Basis of Muslim states in this region) raised by Sher - E - Bangla Aboul Kashem Fazlul Haque. The origin of this Jamat is not Islamic at all. For this reason I have not mentioned them as the Islamic. They are Congress Agent (Aryan Agent). Agents to misguide the Muslim Nation and making confusion, maker of plots for enemy 

Here is some proof of that:

Maududi was the most vociferous opponent of Muslim state Movement. I reproduce here some of his referenced works here from his &#8220;Muslims and the Present Political Turmoil&#8221; (Vol.III) First Edition published from Delhi. Maududi described the idea of Muslim Nationalism as unlikely as a &#8221;chaste prostitute&#8221;. Here he wrote:

&#8221; Who are the Muslims you are claiming to be a separate nation? Here, the crowd called Muslims is full of all sorts of rabble. There are as many types of characters in this as in any (other) heathen people&#8221;. (Vol. III, P.166) 

&#8220;If you survey this so-called Muslim society, you will come across multifarious types of Muslims, of countless categories. This is a zoo with a collection of crows, kites, vultures, partridges and thousands of other types of birds. Every one of them is a &#8216;sparrow&#8217;. (Ibid. P.31) 


Maududi again wrote: 

&#8220;Pity! From Muslim League&#8217;s Main Leader down to the lower cadres, there is not a single person who has an Islamic outlook and thinking and whose perspective on matters is Islamic&#8220;. (Ibid. P.37)

This is proving his congress's servant characteristics.

&#8220;To pronounce these people fit for leading Muslims for the simple reason that they are experts of Western type politics and masters of Western organizational arts, and are deeply in love with their people, is a manifestation of an unislamic viewpoint and reflects ignorance of Islam&#8221;. (Ibid. P.70)

&#8220;Even with a microscopic study of their practical life, and their thinking, ideology, political behaviour and style of leadership, one can find not a trace of Islamic character.&#8221; 

This Son of a B***h again said:

&#8220;In no Muslim League resolution, or in a speech by a responsible leader of the League it has it been made clear that their final goal is of establishing an Islamic system of government. Those who believe that by freeing Muslim majority areas rule of Hindu majority, an Islamic government will be established here in a democratic set up, are wrong. In fact what will be achieved will be a heretical government by Muslims, indeed worse than that.&#8221; (Ibid. P.130-32) 

If the above plan would get any success we would live in India, suppressed by the Aryan cluster.

He wrote:

&#8220;For these reasons, the great numbers (of Muslims) that we find. (listed) in the census records has become worthless for purposes of Islam. Anything done on the strength of these numbers will result in acute frustration.&#8221; (Ibid. P.56)


The root of Jamat and Maododi, Jamati Vondo is Pro Congress, Pro Aryan, Pro Satan. They are the conspirator. Now they are in the mask in the Anti Indian Mask. In fact they are anti Bangladeshi, doesn't believe in Bangladeshi Nationalism. Those are clown of Aryan to reduce the Nation is slow position by using the mask. They did everything for the breakdown of Pakistan( though Independent and Separate Brihot Bangladesh was the hope of every Dravidian Originated Bangladeshi Muslim root in 1947) in 1971. They are against Islam and human and the stooges of the Aryan cluster. I have found all the Jamatis love Indian culture, love Indian actress, listen Hindi songs, witness Indian Cricket Match and always talks about India. They don't believe in Bangladeshi Nationalism. Yet they have the hope to be united with their masters. They are the destruct er of the Bangladeshi Nationalism.

True teaching of Nationalism may help us to get rid from that.

Vashani shows us how to be a Nationalist as well as Muslim at the same time. People from other religion may be a Nationalist.

Jamati Vondos are the enemy to the proper development of the great Bangladeshi Nation.

Our people should be free from the conspiration of Maododi, which is historically true and the other Aryan conspiration and invasion.

Proper teaching of Nationalism is must necessary.


We are not a myth. We are the Bangladeshi Nation.


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## blain2

At the very simplest in my opinion, the only way to lay this one to rest is to essentially do a referendum and ask the people what system of governance they desire. Once the verdict is out, then that system should be implemented. If this is not done, there will be continuous upheaval in all of the Muslim majority countries.

My view is that people should get what they ask for, live through it and then be able to judge what made the most sense for them.

When outsiders interfere with this process then things become more complicated leading to extremism etc.

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## TopCat

^^^^^^^^^^

But what Moududi talked about the future of that country ironically turned true. Dont you think? He was a smart man.


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## kobiraaz

Bludgeon said:


> There is no such thing as having different meanings of secularism.


the idea varies from people to people. For example- Expert on Islam such as Alems or whatever discourage secularism where as you moderate Muslim believes Islam approves it. 





> Where did you get this?


 Ben Ali Banned Mosque in Cantonments.




> What is an Islamist? Good God...



Islamism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Islamists claim victory in landmark Tunisia vote - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com



> Can you name any government after the end of the Ershad era that can at least run the country properly as a government should? The answer is only half way.



visit any Bangladeshi Hindu website. They will have statistics or articles on it................ 




> Best not to listen to those Hiz-ut-Tahir nutjobs.


I listen to Quran and Hadith.... Sorry i cant redesign them according to my conscience or modern values and norms.......


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## blain2

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> Founder of Jamati Vondo , Vondo Maododi is the congress agent. He formed the Jamati Vondo in 1941 in Lahore to oppose the Muslim League, Lahore Proposal( Basis of Muslim states in this region) raised by Sher - E - Bangla Aboul Kashem Fazlul Haque. The origin of this Jamat is not Islamic at all. For this reason I have not mentioned them as the Islamic. They are Congress Agent (Aryan Agent). Agents to misguide the Muslim Nation and making confusion, maker of plots for enemy
> 
> Here is some proof of that:
> 
> Maududi was the most vociferous opponent of Muslim state Movement. I reproduce here some of his referenced works here from his &#8220;Muslims and the Present Political Turmoil&#8221; (Vol.III) First Edition published from Delhi. Maududi described the idea of Muslim Nationalism as unlikely as a &#8221;chaste prostitute&#8221;. Here he wrote:
> 
> &#8221; Who are the Muslims you are claiming to be a separate nation? Here, the crowd called Muslims is full of all sorts of rabble. There are as many types of characters in this as in any (other) heathen people&#8221;. (Vol. III, P.166)
> 
> &#8220;If you survey this so-called Muslim society, you will come across multifarious types of Muslims, of countless categories. This is a zoo with a collection of crows, kites, vultures, partridges and thousands of other types of birds. Every one of them is a &#8216;sparrow&#8217;. (Ibid. P.31)
> 
> 
> Maududi again wrote:
> 
> &#8220;Pity! From Muslim League&#8217;s Main Leader down to the lower cadres, there is not a single person who has an Islamic outlook and thinking and whose perspective on matters is Islamic&#8220;. (Ibid. P.37)
> 
> This is proving his congress's servant characteristics.
> 
> &#8220;To pronounce these people fit for leading Muslims for the simple reason that they are experts of Western type politics and masters of Western organizational arts, and are deeply in love with their people, is a manifestation of an unislamic viewpoint and reflects ignorance of Islam&#8221;. (Ibid. P.70)
> 
> &#8220;Even with a microscopic study of their practical life, and their thinking, ideology, political behaviour and style of leadership, one can find not a trace of Islamic character.&#8221;
> 
> This Son of a B***h again said:
> 
> &#8220;In no Muslim League resolution, or in a speech by a responsible leader of the League it has it been made clear that their final goal is of establishing an Islamic system of government. Those who believe that by freeing Muslim majority areas rule of Hindu majority, an Islamic government will be established here in a democratic set up, are wrong. In fact what will be achieved will be a heretical government by Muslims, indeed worse than that.&#8221; (Ibid. P.130-32)
> 
> If the above plan would get any success we would live in India, suppressed by the Aryan cluster.
> 
> He wrote:
> 
> &#8220;For these reasons, the great numbers (of Muslims) that we find. (listed) in the census records has become worthless for purposes of Islam. Anything done on the strength of these numbers will result in acute frustration.&#8221; (Ibid. P.56)
> 
> 
> The root of Jamat and Maododi, Jamati Vondo is Pro Indian, Pro Aryan, Pro Satan. They are the conspirator. Now they are in the mask in the Anti Indian Mask. In fact they are anti Bangladeshi, doesn't believe in Bangladeshi Nationalism. Those are clown of Aryan to reduce the Nation is slow position by using the mask. They did everything for the breakdown of Pakistan( though Independent and Separate Brihot Bangladesh was the hope of every Dravidian Originated Bangladeshi Muslim root in 1947) in 1971. They are against Islam and human and the stooges of the Aryan cluster. I have found all the Jamatis love Indian culture, love Indian actress, listen Hindi songs, witness Indian Cricket Match and always talks about India. They don't believe in Bangladeshi Nationalism. Yet they have the hope to be united with their masters. They are the destruct er of the Bangladeshi Nationalism.
> 
> True teaching of Nationalism may help us to get rid from that.
> 
> Vashani shows us how to be a Nationalist as well as Muslim at the same Muslim. People from other religion may be a Nationalist.
> 
> Jamati Vondos are the enemy to the proper development of the great Bangladeshi Nation.
> 
> Our people should be free from the conspiration of Maododi, which is historically true and the other Aryan conspiration and invasion.
> 
> Proper teaching of Nationalism is must necessary.
> 
> 
> We are not a myth. We are the Bangladeshi Nation.



At some level, nationalism goes out the door from an Islamic point of view. Nation-state concept was sort of alien to Muslims prior to the rise of the European powers. Thus you will always find Islamic scholars who could care less about the national identity.

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## kobiraaz

blain2 said:


> At the very simplest in my opinion, the only way to lay this one to rest is to essentially do a referendum and ask the people what system of governance they desire. Once the verdict is out, then that system should be implemented. If this is not done, there will be continuous upheaval in all of the Muslim majority countries.
> 
> My view is that people should get what they ask for, live through it and then be able to judge what made the most sense for them.
> 
> *When outsiders interfere with this process then things become more complicated leading to extremism* etc.



That is what i was trying to say. If they want to turn Bangladesh into a secular one... extremism will follow and Hindus will have to pay the price. There is very good reason behind Hasina's move to keep Islam as state religion......

---------- Post added at 02:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 AM ----------




blain2 said:


> At some level, nationalism goes out the door from an Islamic point of view. Nation-state concept was sort of alien to Muslims prior to the rise of the European powers. Thus you will always find Islamic scholars who could care less about the national identity.



I was a Hard-core nationalist. Even joined BNP out of that attraction.... But my earth turned upside down when i came to know about " nationalism in Islam" ..... This idea is only 200 years old... and people worship it..........

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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

blain2 said:


> At some level, nationalism goes out the door from an Islamic point of view. Nation-state concept was sort of alien to Muslims prior to the rise of the European powers. Thus you will always find Islamic scholars who could care less about the national identity.




This is a ball ant lie. Nationalism is the part of Iman. Nation is created in certain geographic region as a grace and the wish of the Almighty. As a Muslim, I can say Nationalism and Islam are always complementary. People from other religion may have another view point about Nationalism.

Almighty has created different Nations, it is true. Muslim People from different Nations constitute the Ummah not the Nation. Islam does not allow to make the destruction of the Nations as all Nations are created as part wish of the Almighty. Destruction of a Nation is UnIslamic. Punjabis wanted to make the destruction of Bangladeshi Nation, that was crime and UnIslamic in 1971. We should come out from the UnIslamic idea and sin work(destructing the Nations). History proves the truth thing.

But , Be aware of Maododi( Anti Muslim League, Anti humanity, Anti Islamist, Pro Congress, Pro Satan, Mis User of Islamic Cloth, Religion trader, enemy of Islam and humanity). Jamati Vondo is a historically proved crime organization. Animals feed by the Aryan Cluster.


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## Al-zakir

blain2 said:


> At the very simplest in my opinion, the only way to lay this one to rest is to essentially do a referendum and ask the people what system of governance they desire. Once the verdict is out, then that system should be implemented. If this is not done, there will be continuous upheaval in all of the Muslim majority countries.



There you have it. Key word is referendum but our government always try to shove their party agenda on the nation. Recently, Hasina slash Dhaka city in to two without asking people opinion. As a matter of fact, almost 100% against this decision but Awami has no time respect people opinion or feeling. Main reason they have done it because fear of loosing mayoral election as Awamis popularity sunk. This kind of unilateral, undemocratic decision create more problem than solution.


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## kobiraaz

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> This is a ball ant lie. Nationalism is the part of Iman. Nation is created in certain geographic region as a grace and the wish of the Almighty. As a Muslim, I can say Nationalism and Islam are always complementary. People from other religion may have another view point about Nationalism.
> 
> Almighty has created different Nations, it is true. Muslim People from different Nations constitute the Ummah not the Nation. Islam does not allow to make the destruction of the Nations as all Nations are created as part wish of the Almighty. Destruction of a Nation is UnIslamic. Punjabis wanted to make the destruction of Bangladeshi Nation, that was crime and UnIslamic in 1971. We should come out from the UnIslamic idea and sin work(destructing the Nations). History proves the truth thing.
> 
> But , Be aware of Maododi( Anti Muslim League, Anti humanity, Anti Islamist, Pro Congress, Pro Satan, Mis User of Islamic Cloth, Religion trader, enemy of Islam and humanity). Jamati Vondo is a historically proved crime organization. Animals feed by the Aryan Cluster.



Silly. You are explaining something and you dont have any idea about that. I didnt bother to read following links. If they support your claim please let me know. I will read then.

Islam and Nationalism

http://members.cox.net/arshad/nationalism.htm


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Faarhan said:


> Silly. You are explaining something and you dont have any idea about that. I didnt bother to read following links. If they support your claim please let me know. I will read then.
> 
> Islam and Nationalism
> 
> http://members.cox.net/arshad/nationalism.htm




Those are confusing thread to misguide the Nationalists. We have the definite source of Knowledge. Why are we not searching those?

We should brand the Nationalism with our belief, not of the views of Satan.We should define that from our teachings not from others. It is inherent, given by the Almighty since the ancient time. Those threads are actually made for making the destruction of the Muslim Nations of the world.They want to make the Muslim as Nation-less. After that, they want to crush all the Muslim people.


Never be confused with those. Those are destructive to your own Nation.

At first Keep your own Muslim Nation alive, then you will be able to contribute to the Ummah. Nation is your home. Ummah is your world. You should behave with the people of other religion according to the teaching of your Knowledge source and belief.

This will check your goodness.


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## kobiraaz




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## kobiraaz

Explain it.


> Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: &#8220;He is not one of us who calls for asabiyyah, (tribalism/nationalism) or who fights for asabiyyah, or who dies for asabiyyah.&#8221; [Abu Dawud]


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Faarhan said:


> Explain it.



It is prohibiting to make false proud about the birth history, as any type of false proud is not granted by the Almighty.

But from the holy Al Qur'an we know that, From the Sons of Adam different Nations are created. What will you say about ?

We should follow the justice of the Almighty. We should not destroy the Nations of the world as those are creation of the Almighty as it is stated in the holy Al Qur'an. Destruction of the Nations is the Satanic work. Kaom is equal to the Nation not the Ummah. The total Muslim Population is the Ummah as whole not a Kaom(Nation). You are confusing about that.

I am not encouraging the false proud or opposing the co-operation of the Muslim Ummah. Muslim Nations are the pillar of the Ummah. Without the pillars the Ummah will fall down. 

Never be confused.


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## blain2

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> This is a ball ant lie. Nationalism is the part of Iman. Nation is created in certain geographic region as a grace and the wish of the Almighty. As a Muslim, I can say Nationalism and Islam are always complementary. People from other religion may have another view point about Nationalism.
> 
> Almighty has created different Nations, it is true. Muslim People from different Nations constitute the Ummah not the Nation. Islam does not allow to make the destruction of the Nations as all Nations are created as part wish of the Almighty. Destruction of a Nation is UnIslamic. Punjabis wanted to make the destruction of Bangladeshi Nation, that was crime and UnIslamic in 1971. We should come out from the UnIslamic idea and sin work(destructing the Nations). History proves the truth thing.
> 
> But , Be aware of Maododi( Anti Muslim League, Anti humanity, Anti Islamist, Pro Congress, Pro Satan, Mis User of Islamic Cloth, Religion trader, enemy of Islam and humanity). Jamati Vondo is a historically proved crime organization. Animals feed by the Aryan Cluster.



Ahmed,

I am not a religious scholar so I cannot address all of the issues you have raised. What I do understand is that Prophet Muhammad is called "mercy for all of mankind" in the Quran. Which to me means that Islam would look beyond limiting the ummah to a specific nation or tribe(s) or identifying ourselves along ethnic, tribal lines.

I think the Islamic ideal transcends colour, creed and ethnic backgrounds and actually frowns upon such divisions.

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## kobiraaz

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> It is prohibiting to make false proud about the birth history, as any type of false proud is not granted by the Almighty.
> 
> But from the holy Al Qur'an we know that, From the Sons of Adam different Nations are created. What will you say about ?
> 
> We should follow the justice of the Almighty. We should not destroy the Nations of the world as those are creation of the Almighty as it is stated in the holy Al Qur'an. Destruction of the Nations is the Satanic work. Kaom is equal to the Nation not the Ummah. The total Muslim Population is the Ummah as whole not a Kaom(Nation). You are confusing about that.
> 
> I am not encouraging the false proud or opposing the co-operation of the Muslim Ummah. Muslim Nations are the pillar of the Ummah. Without the pillars the Ummah will fall down.
> 
> Never be confused.



Satan is also a creation of Almighty. Twenty people couldnt solve dravidian problem with you. I donot stand any chance against you. Replying you will be waste of time....

btw give me links by any islamic scholar supporting your claim or is it your brain child?


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Faarhan said:


> Satan is also a creation of Almighty. Twenty people couldnt solve dravidian problem with you. I donot stand any chance against you. Replying you will be waste of time....
> 
> btw give me links by any islamic scholar supporting your claim or is it your brain child?




AlHamdulillah, I have found the greatest evidence. I don't need anything other than that. Yes I have got the evidence from the Holy Al Quran:


Sura: Al Hujarat

Ayat: 13

English Translation: . "O mankind!

We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other).



Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you.

And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)."


Brother, Please,observe that , Nations are created by the Almighty and those are creations of Almighty for our betterment. 

So, there is no confusion. Nation is acknowledged by the Almighty.

Never be confused. Never destroy Nations like the Satan.

May Allah Save and Grace us all.


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## Americanpeacebomber

Pakistan should forget about East Pakistan and try have a union with Afghanistan, Bangladesh chapter has been closed it's over however the Islamic Republic of Pakistan & Afghanistan seems likely.


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Americanpeacebomber said:


> Pakistan should forget about East Pakistan and try have a union with Afghanistan, Bangladesh chapter has been closed it's over however the Islamic Republic of Pakistan & Afghanistan seems likely.




India should tie with Antarctica or a Nation from the Mars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is better for them.

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## Americanpeacebomber

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> India should tie with Antarctica or a Nation from the Mars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is better for them.



Why ? Afghanistan is 100x more valuable then Bangladesh it natural resources, Bangladesh was united only in the concept of the Islamic union while it did not border pakistan and it failed not to mention Bangladesh is not an Islamic Republic, Afghanistan is it also shares ethnic, cultural, and religious ties with Pakistan. as for India and Antarctica who knows it could happen in the future. the afghan Pak Union is better Possibility then Pak and Bang.


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Americanpeacebomber said:


> Why ? Afghanistan is 100x more valuable then Bangladesh it natural resources, Bangladesh was united only in the concept of the Islamic union while it did not border pakistan and it failed not to mention Bangladesh is not an Islamic Republic, Afghanistan is it also shares ethnic, cultural, and religious ties with Pakistan. as for India and Antarctica who knows it could happen in the future. the afghan Pak Union is better Possibility then Pak and Bang.



Who is making reunion by destroying own Nation? Why are you shouting?

Penguins and Aliens are good friend!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Americanpeacebomber

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> Who is making reunion by destroying own Nation? Why are you shouting?
> 
> Penguins and Aliens are good friend!!!!!!!!!!!



Again you offer noting.


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## patna_ke_presley

Here comes another guy Americanpeacebomber but Shaikhu baba will force him to give up with his Golden words:-

*I am the continua-tor of ancient Dravidian nation. And Aryans mistreated my Arab ancestors who originated from Dravidians.*


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## kobiraaz

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> AlHamdulillah, I have found the greatest evidence. I don't need anything other than that. Yes I have got the evidence from the Holy Al Quran:
> 
> 
> Sura: Al Hujarat
> 
> Ayat: 13
> 
> English Translation: . "O mankind!
> 
> We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into* nations and tribes*, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other).
> 
> 
> 
> Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you.
> 
> And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)."
> 
> 
> Brother, Please,observe that , Nations are created by the Almighty and those are creations of Almighty for our betterment.
> 
> So, there is no confusion. Nation is acknowledged by the Almighty.
> 
> Never be confused. Never destroy Nations like the Satan.
> 
> May Allah Save and Grace us all.



Tribalism is banned in Islam. So as Nationalism. This Ayat doesnt approve Nationalism. Allah also made many people non muslim.... So?? Does that mean they have to remain non muslim?? You cant explain any ayat according to your view..... There must be hundred scholars explaining this ayat. Show me one that supports your claim that we should divide into nations.........

you said Islam only bans glorifying ones ancestors...... but It also bans fighting each other



> Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: &#8220;He is not one of us who calls for asabiyyah, (tribalism/nationalism) *or who fights for asabiyyah, or who dies for asabiyyah.&#8221; *[Abu Dawud]


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## LaBong

Faarhan said:


> Explain it.


 
Now you are confusing modern nation states with arab tribes. Understand the context of the speech and how hopelessly divided the arabs were in that era. 

I'm sure someone would make a different meaning of the arab word and put a spin and interpret it in a way of his own interest.


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## Zabaniyah

Faarhan said:


> the idea varies from people to people. For example- Expert on Islam such as Alems or whatever discourage secularism where as you moderate Muslim believes Islam approves it.



Those guys follow very complex ideologies with complex ramifications. But then as the saying goes, no government should push the issue of secularism too far. 



Faarhan said:


> Ben Ali Banned Mosque in Cantonments.



He did? Guess he pushed it too far eh?  I do not agree with extreme secular measures. People should be free as to what they choose.



Faarhan said:


> Islamism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Islamists claim victory in landmark Tunisia vote - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com



The very term 'Islamist' is a misleading one I'd say. 



Faarhan said:


> I listen to Quran and Hadith.... Sorry i cant redesign them according to my conscience or modern values and norms.......



More like a spiritual guide. They cannot answer everything in everyday affairs. We are ultimately the result of our intentions. 

I hope sanity prevails. 

Glad that people aren't into those Hiz-ut-Tahir monkeys.

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## kobiraaz

LaBong said:


> Now you are confusing modern nation states with arab tribes. Understand the context of the speech and how hopelessly divided the arabs were in that era.
> 
> I'm sure someone would make a different meaning of the arab word and put a spin and interpret it in a way of his own interest.


i am too much ignorant to comment on it myself... All muslim scholars interpreted it as nationalism... Atleast i didn't find any who said differently..


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## Zabaniyah

Faarhan said:


> i am too much ignorant to comment on it myself... *All muslim scholars interpreted it as nationalism*... Atleast i didn't find any who said differently..



Nationalism has nothing to do with Islam.


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## kobiraaz

Bludgeon said:


> Nationalism has nothing to do with Islam.


Says who?? You??


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Faarhan said:


> Tribalism is banned in Islam. So as Nationalism. This Ayat doesnt approve Nationalism. Allah also made many people non muslim.... So?? Does that mean they have to remain non muslim?? You cant explain any ayat according to your view..... There must be hundred scholars explaining this ayat. Show me one that supports your claim that we should divide into nations.........
> 
> you said Islam only bans glorifying ones ancestors...... but It also bans fighting each other




You are supporting the Zionist One Nation theory. The Almighty Allah is directing that, Nations and Tribes are created by the Almighty.The Almighty Allah also explained the reason for the fragmentation into different Nations. It allows the Human being to acknowledge each other. It is the wish of the Almighty. Any sensible people can understand that by understanding the full and real meaning of that Ayat. The person who is against the Ayat of the Almighty are of course the follower of the Satan. I have nothing to say anymore about those Zionist Agents. We should follow the real teaching from the Almighty to get real peace in the earth and the after earth. We must protest all the Zionist Agents to establish the wish of the Almighty.

SO, THERE IS NO CONFUSION AT ALL. OPPORTUNISTS ARE TOTALLY UNMASKED!!


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## Zabaniyah

Faarhan said:


> Says who?? You??



No.

4356537


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## LaBong

Faarhan said:


> i am too much ignorant to comment on it myself... All muslim scholars interpreted it as nationalism... Atleast i didn't find any who said differently..



What I gather from Google is that Asabiyyah refers to tribalism/clanism. The idea of modern Nation states was alien in 7th century. Modern nation states don't discriminate people for their race, color or creed or even *religion*(now middle east is not a perfect example of it, they are still stuck to their clanism). It doesn't even discriminate a citizen of other nation or gives him/her a protectorate status. 

As far as scholars are concerned, I guess the ruling elite of Iran and KSA know their religion well, but why don't they share their resource with poor Muslim countries in Africa. As far as I know USA and Europe donate more than rest of the world.


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## Zabaniyah

LaBong said:


> What I gather from Google, that Asabiyyah refers to tribalism/clanism. The idea of modern Nation states was alien in 7th century. Modern nation states don't discriminate people for their race, color or creed or even *religion*(now middle east is not a perfect example of it, they are still stuck to their clanism). It doesn't even discriminate a citizen of other nation or gives him/her a protectorate status.
> 
> As far as scholars are concerned, *I guess the ruling elite of Iran and KSA know their religion well, but why don't they share their resource with poor Muslim countries in Africa. As far as I know USA and Europe donate more than rest of the world.*



It's strange. From my experience, Bangladeshis aren't exactly seen well in the Middle East and South East Asia. Mostly due to the fact that most of them are laborers. 

On the other hand, they are seen better in the USA and much of the Western World, since many (especially in the US) are skilled people. And they integrate better with their societies. 

And the infidel West happen to be Bangladesh's largest trading partners, source military training, equipment and aid 

And people talk about the one nation theory based on religion? 

Man, it's weird.

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## LaBong

^I'd assume he's talking about best case scenario where Arabs don't discriminate Bangladeshis and share their resource with other Muslim countries. Even then the idea of modern Nation states is far advanced.


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## TopCat

Ok, there are different meaning in Nationalism by scholars. Lets not get into it. But Islam does support Statehood or in other word Administrative territory.

A good example is observing festivals and Ramadan according to the lunar calendar. The rule says, if the moon is sighted in any part of the administrative territory then it should be taken as it is seen for the entire administrative territory. Thats why we celebrate Eid in different days than the Saudi Arabia.

Nowhere in Islam it said that all Muslim country should form a confederates.

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## Zabaniyah

iajdani said:


> *Ok, there are different meaning in Nationalism by scholars.* Lets not get into it. But Islam does support Statehood or in other word Administrative territory.
> 
> A good example is observing festivals and Ramadan according to the lunar calendar. The rule says, if the moon is sighted in any part of the administrative territory then it should be taken as it is seen for the entire administrative territory. Thats why we celebrate Eid in different days than the Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Nowhere in Islam it said that all Muslim country should form a confederates.



So they have different interpretations of nationalism? Oh boy...

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## Al-zakir

Bludgeon said:


> Nationalism has nothing to do with Islam.



Ideally nationalism doesn't exist in Islam. Muslims controlled land should be home for all Muslim. How do you think SA was Islamized? However, we do not live in ideal world. 

United Pakistan had a lot of issues but still doesn't justify the separation, islamically. 

As a kid, I read a story about a dying old wise man, his sons and his last wish. It used to be thought in primary school: While the old man was dying, he called for all of his sons(5) and gave them one stick each, he told them to break the stick, they broke the stick easily. The old man gave them another five stick and told them to bind all the stick together and then break it. Sons couldn't broke the binded sticks. Wise old man message to his was that stay together and united thus you will be strong and no one can hurt you but if the you go your separate ways then you will be weak and vulnerable. 

Story of united Pakistan and then bloody separation, and the old wise man message is just that. Dada India doing what ever it wants with Bd because it's knows it well that Bd can not retaliate against it's aggression however united Pakistan would have been different all together.

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## Always Neutral

Al-zakir said:


> Go to Bharat Raksak and thank there. Get the hell out...



The same can be said to you, Mr. Razakkar.


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## Al-zakir

Always Neutral said:


> The same can be said to you, Mr. Razakkar.


 
Yoo, you still alive. I thought you are done. 

Razakar=Volunteer to exposed Bhartis double standard low quality game. Oh yeah. I am Abu-Razakar.

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## Zabaniyah

Always Neutral said:


> The same can be said to you, Mr. Razakkar.



lol, so much for being always neutral


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## Zabaniyah

Al-zakir said:


> Ideally nationalism doesn't exist in Islam. Muslims controlled land should be home for all Muslim. How do you think SA was Islamized? However, we do not live in ideal world.
> 
> United Pakistan had a lot of issues but still doesn't justify the separation, islamically.
> 
> As a kid, I read a story about a dying old wise man, his sons and his last wish. It used to be thought in primary school: While the old man was dying, he called for all of his sons(5) and gave them one stick each, he told them to break the stick, each son broke the stick easily. The old man gave them another five stick and told them to bind all the stick together and then break it. Sons couldn't broke the binded sticks. Wise old man message to his was that stay together and united thus you will be strong and no one hurt you but if the you go your separate ways then you will be weak and vulnerable.
> 
> Story of united Pakistan and then bloody separation, and the old wise man message is just that. Dada India doing what ever it wants with Bd because it's knows it well that Bd can not retaliate against it's aggression however united Pakistan would have been different all together.



Genghis Khan. 

_One arrow alone can be easily broken but many arrows are indestructible._

Ideally? Saudi Arabia was named after a family. It was the Arabs who sided with the British against the Ottoman empire. There was no Syria, no Lebanon, no Iraq, no Saudi Arabia, etc. 

And now we see all those little guys flying their own flags along with their national anthems. That and American spoon feeding with big toys. Iran got under Uncle Sam's nerves pretty quick 

And just how are those guys any better?  They, along with countries like Malaysia and Indonesia do not see us Bengali Muslims well. This is from my experience. 

A culture based on religion alone is never sufficient. A culture is always necessary. 

We are Muslim and we have a Bengali culture. We are neither Arab, Chinese or South East Asian. Perhaps to India, but there are many sub-cultures there. 

We are unique. Too unique. And does it matter if we are actually Bengalis in the eyes of others? To them, yes. Because that's how it is!

You see, in places like the UK and the US, Bangladeshis have done well compared to living in the brethren lands. Those Syhetis in the UK are tremendously successful. And I am not just talking about those curry houses. Did you know that those Sylheti curry houses are literally changing the eating habits of the English people? It's happening!

Some people like Konnie Huq are even celebrities. And ironically, they all came from religious family backgrounds. 
British Bangladeshi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many Bangladeshis work in highly intellectual fields in the US. And I think you already know that. 

Surely, both you and I will be proud and happy for them.

And success as a Bengali Muslim. The thing is, they never would have been that successful in their own countries and let alone doing so in Muslim-majority countries. Why? The others simply do not see us as equal even though it contradicts with their own religion. 

And ironically, all that in the infidel West! 

This just shows that the Western World are far more tolerant than the Muslims and the entire South Asia combined. I am not even going to mention those Middle Easterners! They are as slippery as eels!

I understand the issue of the Ummah. But then, would they respect the commitments? And honor that commitment? Our forefathers did agree to be with Pakistan in order to avoid Hindu domination. And yet the mainland was over 1000 miles away! 

The Bengalis never got a fair share of the GDP, and the East Pakistan front wasn't particularly well defended. Very few Bengalis actually spoke Urdu. Of-course, India would want to smash Pakistan into two, but that is a different issue. 

What we failed back then is to have a united stand. And neither did the West Pakistani leadership did the job properly. 

Was the breakup Islamically justified? Perhaps not. Was it culturally and practically justified? Considering the factors present and the dangerous compromises made to suit West Pakistani leadership desires back then; yes. 

Yaha Khan and Bhutto should have shared power with Mujib. The latter would have fallen in a month anyways. And there was absolutely nothing the Bhartis could have done to actually control the balance of power in Pakistan.

India's grand plan, Bengali sentiments, combined with the stupidity of the West Pakistani leadership only spell doom on the nation of Pakistan. 

Perhaps it would have been better if we had our very own Muslim Bengal, living in peace with both India and Pakistan in the first place. 

I do not agree with the AL's misuse of history. They merely misusing the past for their own benefit. And frankly, I cannot say anything better about Jamaat. The BNP has now merely become a shadow of the great Zia Rahman. 

The sad fact is, Bangladesh never actually got that freedom it fought for. We are not living under just one dictator. We are in fact living under two of them. The Liberation War was an unfinished revolution. Of that, I have no doubt. We have to remove the two ruling family dynasties to actually have any change. The only persons who actually did some work were Zia and Ershad. 

Perhaps that's why there's nationalism among various Muslim groups based on ethnicity and culture. So my friend, culture is a huge part of one's identity, along with religion. Because that's just how it is in the physical realm.

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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

We are the Bangladeshi Nation. We hate all Pro Indian and all Pro Pakistani or Pro Satan collaborators to the Nation. They are not part of us. They are the animal fed by the foreigner. As a Bangladeshi, I enjoy the fun by observing the quarrel between those collaborators. True teaching of Nationalism may cure them to turn back them into true track. They are very few in number. But they shout much by making noise, organizing quarreling between them. They want to term the Nationalism as the extremism.

If those can be identified, We the Bangladeshi Nation are ready to crush those animals to the rightful places as they are betrayer.

We also hate the misinterpretation of the Islam. When the evidence of the Al Qur'an is given to them, they want to ignore that. They want to ignore the Nations of the world which are the creations of the Almighty. Those are sure followers of the Satan, who are the follower of the Zionist(Destroyer of the Nation). 

Collaborators to the Nation must be punished in earth and after-earth. It is obvious.


Every true Muslims are Nationalist. But all the Nationalists are not Muslim. Muslims Nationalists are assets of the world, those are the builder of every true Nation. Nations are the creation of the Almighty. 

This is the simple equation. The people who doesn't follow that are must the collaborators. Those must be punished.

Shame on the collaborators!!


We are the Bangladesh. We are the eighth largest Nation of the world which has distinct ethnicity with the certain geographic territory. We are confident enough to be the true Bangladeshi Nationalist by the grace of the Almighty.


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## kobiraaz

I cant continue this bs anymore..... Whatever cool avatar Zabanya bro!!!!!!!!!


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## Al-zakir

Zab, 
Very long post but I take it as you disagree. Fair enough. 

I wonder why Muslims goes to Makkah and Madina though. Many wish to die there. Must be crazy or something.


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## Lighting_Fighter

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> You are supporting the Zionist One Nation theory. The Almighty Allah is directing that, Nations and Tribes are created by the Almighty.The Almighty Allah also explained the reason for the fragmentation into different Nations. It allows the Human being to acknowledge each other. It is the wish of the Almighty. Any sensible people can understand that by understanding the full and real meaning of that Ayat. The person who is against the Ayat of the Almighty are of course the follower of the Satan. I have nothing to say anymore about those Zionist Agents. We should follow the real teaching from the Almighty to get real peace in the earth and the after earth. We must protest all the Zionist Agents to establish the wish of the Almighty.
> 
> SO, THERE IS NO CONFUSION AT ALL. OPPORTUNISTS ARE TOTALLY UNMASKED!!



bro, have you heard all muslims are like a part of single body. If one part is hurt, then rest shoud respond the way our's does. Or the hadith where Prophet Muhammad (S) asked Allah not to punish muslims from heaven or from earth and keep them united. Well, Allah accepted the first two but not the union one. So it says, Prophet Muhammad (S) wanted one body. Brother Sheikh, I know the ayah you mention of creating mankind into different nations and tribe. Now, did Allah anywhere says that we have to be into separate nations, in Qur'an? Answer me. Remember, Prophet Muhammad (S) spoke nothing but the orders of Allah. It seems that you are creating segmentation in Islam. Reference to Muhammad (S), jews have 72 groups and muslims will have 73 groups. Only 1 will go to heaven, Only Allah knows who falls into that group. Aren't u creating a segmentation in Islam? *Actually now, I am doubting that if you are a muslim or not or even bangladeshi.* Because, we bangladeshis don't talk like that. I am a bangladeshi. My dad was a recruiter of Mukti Joddhas. And I am Muslim first from anything. What do u have to say?

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## Lighting_Fighter

O by the way, if you search history, you'll see many nations living under one ruler. Under Prophet Muhammad (S) there lived the Meccans and the Ansars, also jews, perfectly in harmony. Later, under ottoman empire muslims and non-muslims lived in total freedon and harmony. Under Mughals lived whole south asia. Under Naoab Sirajjouddola lived bengalis, biharis and orissa people or may be more. What do u have to say to that?


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Lighting_Fighter said:


> bro, have you heard all muslims are like a part of single body. If one part is hurt, then rest shoud respond the way our's does. Or the hadith where Prophet Muhammad (S) asked Allah not to punish muslims from heaven or from earth and keep them united. Well, Allah accepted the first two but not the union one. So it says, Prophet Muhammad (S) wanted one body. Brother Sheikh, I know the ayah you mention of creating mankind into different nations and tribe. Now, did Allah anywhere says that we have to be into separate nations, in Qur'an? Answer me. Remember, Prophet Muhammad (S) spoke nothing but the orders of Allah. It seems that you are creating segmentation in Islam. Reference to Muhammad (S), jews have 72 groups and muslims will have 73 groups. Only 1 will go to heaven, Only Allah knows who falls into that group. Aren't u creating a segmentation in Islam? *Actually now, I am doubting that if you are a muslim or not or even bangladeshi.* Because, we bangladeshis don't talk like that. I am a bangladeshi. My dad was a recruiter of Mukti Joddhas. And I am Muslim first from anything. What do u have to say?




You are saying about the Muslim Ummah. As a Muslim I must support the my Ummah. There is no confusion. Bangladeshi Nation is my Kaom. Muslim population of the world is my Ummah. I am member both of them. Kaoms are the pillars of the Ummah. Without true Nations the Ummah will fall down. Nations are the creations of the Almighty. Bangladeshi Muslim Nation is my identity and I am also the member of the Ummah. There is no confusion. Those are complementary to each other. The entity who want to destroy the true Nations is of course the enemy of the Ummah as that entity is trying to destroy the units of the Ummah. There is no confusion.


We are the Bangladeshi.We are the Bangladesh. We are the eighth largest Nation of the world which has distinct ethnicity with the certain geographic territory. We are confident enough to be the true Bangladeshi Nationalist by the grace of the Almighty.

As a Muslim, I want to say, We are the Muslim. We are the part of the Ummah. Follower of the Din which is granted by the Almighty Allah. We are confident enough to be united and do the best rightful activities as per the wish of the Almighty Allah.
We are the follower of the true Din, surrendered to the Almighty Allah to get the peace in Earth and the After Earth.

There no confusion at all.


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## LaBong

Lighting_Fighter said:


> O by the way, if you search history, you'll see many nations living under one ruler. Under Prophet Muhammad (S) there lived the Meccans and the Ansars, also jews, perfectly in harmony. Later, under ottoman empire muslims and non-muslims lived in total freedon and harmony. Under Mughals lived whole south asia. Under Naoab Sirajjouddola lived bengalis, biharis and orissa people or may be more. What do u have to say to that?


 
While it's true that islam in past treated minorities better than their abrahamic brothers, but in todays world minorities want equal right, not just a protectorate status. 

You might know of the incident when some christian group in arab wanted to pay double the money, if khalifa considers it as alms instead of jijiya, and the khalif obliged. None likes the tag of second class citizen, those christian had money, they got away, those who didn't have money or power just accepted it. 

Indians lived under mughals or bengali/bihari/oriyas lived under siraj because they had no other choice. Do afghans or iraqis love american military camp in their land?

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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Lighting_Fighter said:


> bro, have you heard all muslims are like a part of single body. If one part is hurt, then rest shoud respond the way our's does. Or the hadith where Prophet Muhammad (S) asked Allah not to punish muslims from heaven or from earth and keep them united. Well, Allah accepted the first two but not the union one. So it says, Prophet Muhammad (S) wanted one body. Brother Sheikh, I know the ayah you mention of creating mankind into different nations and tribe. Now, did Allah anywhere says that we have to be into separate nations, in Qur'an? Answer me. Remember, Prophet Muhammad (S) spoke nothing but the orders of Allah. It seems that you are creating segmentation in Islam. Reference to Muhammad (S), jews have 72 groups and muslims will have 73 groups. Only 1 will go to heaven, Only Allah knows who falls into that group. Aren't u creating a segmentation in Islam? *Actually now, I am doubting that if you are a muslim or not or even bangladeshi.* Because, we bangladeshis don't talk like that. I am a bangladeshi. My dad was a recruiter of Mukti Joddhas. And I am Muslim first from anything. What do u have to say?




Brother, Listen one thing, Nobody has power to make the segmentation in Islam. The out trackers are easily identifiable.

As a Muslim, We can follow the true Din to get the real peace. There is nothing to make anything by any entity. Islam is absolute. There is no confusion. Nobody can do anything with that. It is only granted Din from the Almighty. There is no confusion. The solutions of all the problems of the mankind are provided in the Din. There is no confusion.

The 72 out trackers are not part of the Muslim Ummah. You can easily identify them, who is making confusion and trying to destroy the Muslim Nations of the world by taking different Names.

Be careful for own survival.


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## kobiraaz

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed Shaheb, Otoeb jaai hok na kano, Taal Gaach ta amar.


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## Lighting_Fighter

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> You are saying about the Muslim Ummah. As a Muslim I must support the my Ummah. There is no confusion. Bangladeshi Nation is my Kaom. Muslim population of the world is my Ummah. I am member both of them. Kaoms are the pillars of the Ummah. Without true Nations the Ummah will fall down. Nations are the creations of the Almighty. Bangladeshi Muslim Nation is my identity and I am also the member of the Ummah. There is no confusion. Those are complementary to each other. The entity who want to destroy the true Nations is of course the enemy of the Ummah as that entity is trying to destroy the units of the Ummah. There is no confusion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are the Bangladeshi.We are the Bangladesh. We are the eighth largest Nation of the world which has distinct ethnicity with the certain geographic territory. We are confident enough to be the true Bangladeshi Nationalist by the grace of the Almighty.
> 
> As a Muslim, I want to say, We are the Muslim. We are the part of the Ummah. Follower of the Din which is granted by the Almighty Allah. We are confident enough to be united and do the best rightful activities as per the wish of the Almighty Allah.
> We are the follower of the true Din, surrendered to the Almighty Allah to get the peace in Earth and the After Earth.
> 
> There no confusion at all.


I am not familiar with the word "Kaom". Could you explain the world in more detail? Give me exact hadith or ayah regarding this several natinals following same religion, Islam?


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## Lighting_Fighter

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> Brother, Listen one thing, Nobody has power to make the segmentation in Islam. The out trackers are easily identifiable.
> 
> As a Muslim, We can follow the true Din to get the real peace. There is nothing to make anything by any entity. Islam is absolute. There is no confusion. Nobody can do anything with that. It is only granted Din from the Almighty. There is no confusion. The solutions of all the problems of the mankind are provided in the Din. There is no confusion.
> 
> The 72 out trackers are not part of the Muslim Ummah. You can easily identify them, who is making confusion and trying to destroy the Muslim Nations of the world by taking different Names.
> 
> Be careful for own survival.



Bull! Non-muslims enjoyed equal rights as muslims in India or in any country in the world during middle ages under muslim rules. If not, non-muslims would have very less number compared to now in India. Also same goes to any other countries under muslims at the time.

You talk that minorities have equal rights in india. I disagree! Hindu lower castes and muslims get way less opportunities in India than bhrahmons. For example, in a bhramon, or a muslim haved the same qualification but guess what who gets the job, Brahmon one. Same as in Canada, whites has more job opportunities than non-whiles or they say colored folks.

By the way do not derail from the topic.


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Lighting_Fighter said:


> I am not familiar with the word "Kaom". Could you explain the world in more detail? Give me exact hadith or ayah regarding this several natinals following same religion, Islam?



Kaom Means Nation.


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Lighting_Fighter said:


> Bull! Non-muslims enjoyed equal rights as muslims in India or in any country in the world during middle ages under muslim rules. If not, non-muslims would have very less number compared to now in India. Also same goes to any other countries under muslims at the time.
> 
> You talk that minorities have equal rights in india. I disagree! Hindu lower castes and muslims get way less opportunities in India than bhrahmons. For example, in a bhramon, or a muslim haved the same qualification but guess what who gets the job, Brahmon one. Same as in Canada, whites has more job opportunities than non-whiles or they say colored folks.
> 
> By the way do not derail from the topic.




You are making Bull sheets. I am confined to my nation and my world. Others have no importance at all. Your India, Never. It is not so important for me at all. Please, read all my posts clearly. I haven't shown any single interest on India.


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## patna_ke_presley

Lighting_Fighter said:


> Bull!* Non-muslims enjoyed equal rights as muslims in India or in any country in the world during middle ages under muslim rules*. If not, non-muslims would have very less number compared to now in India. Also same goes to any other countries under muslims at the time.
> 
> You talk that minorities have equal rights in india. I disagree! *Hindu lower castes and muslims get way less opportunities in India than bhrahmons.* For example, in a bhramon, or a muslim haved the same qualification but guess what who gets the job, Brahmon one. Same as in Canada, whites has more job opportunities than non-whiles or they say colored folks.
> 
> By the way do not derail from the topic.



First of all leaving the rule of three Mughal Sultans-Akbar, Jehangir and Shah Jehan, the non-Muslims never had equal right to Muslims. Like all non-Muslims had to pay Jaziya tax. Apart from this all Hindus had to pay pilgrimage tax if they make journey to their holy sites. Muslim merchants had to pay half the tax than Hindu merchants.(2.5% for Muslim merchants and 5% for Hindu merchants). Also, slavery was rampant during Islamic rule in India.

Also regarding Low caste Hindus and Muslims. So, you may have heard of reservations in India. 80% Muslims have got affirmative action under OBC quota and also low caste Hindus and the tribals have affirmative actions.


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## LaBong

Lighting_Fighter said:


> Bull! Non-muslims enjoyed equal rights as muslims in India or in any country in the world during middle ages under muslim rules. If not, non-muslims would have very less number compared to now in India. Also same goes to any other countries under muslims at the time.
> 
> You talk that minorities have equal rights in india. I disagree! Hindu lower castes and muslims get way less opportunities in India than bhrahmons. For example, in a bhramon, or a muslim haved the same qualification but guess what who gets the job, Brahmon one. Same as in Canada, whites has more job opportunities than non-whiles or they say colored folks.
> 
> By the way do not derail from the topic.


 
I construct my argument based on facts and verified sources, no point rebutting prejudice and hearsay.


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

LaBong said:


> While it's true that islam in past treated minorities better than their abrahamic brothers, but in todays world minorities want equal right, not just a protectorate status.
> 
> You might know of the incident when some christian group in arab wanted to pay double the money, if khalifa considers it as alms instead of jijiya, and the khalif obliged. None likes the tag of second class citizen, those christian had money, they got away, those who didn't have money or power just accepted it.
> 
> Indians lived under mughals or bengali/bihari/oriyas lived under siraj because they had no other choice. Do afghans or iraqis love american military camp in their land?



I am Shiraj, Shiraj is the soil product of my ancient Bangladesh. He is our Patriotic Brother. He is created from the Dusts of my territory. We must not accept any false and ill motivated comments about him. You may call that Shiraj's ancestors was from Arab Peninsula. That was few generations ago. But after few generations He became the Part of my ancient Dravidian Bangladeshi Nation. Barack Obama is that type of example. He is from Kenyan origin. But He is pure American and the American Leader, patriotic leader for the America. He is made from the Dust of America, not from the Kenya. So, there is no confusion. So, there is no residue for the Aryan clusters to catch fish there.


We are the Bangladesh. We are the continua-tor of the ancient Dravidian Nation, Fighter against the Aryan cluster since the ancient time. 
Shame on the aggressors.


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## TopCat

patna_ke_presley said:


> First of all leaving the rule of three Mughal Sultans-Akbar, Jehangir and Shah Jehan, the non-Muslims never had equal right to Muslims. Like all non-Muslims had to pay Jaziya tax. Apart from this all Hindus had to pay pilgrimage tax if they make journey to their holy sites. Muslim merchants had to pay half the tax than Hindu merchants.(2.5% for Muslim merchants and 5% for Hindu merchants). Also, slavery was rampant during Islamic rule in India.
> 
> Also regarding Low caste Hindus and Muslims. So, you may have heard of reservations in India. 80% Muslims have got affirmative action under OBC quota and also low caste Hindus and the tribals have affirmative actions.



Anyways yu forgot about mandatory Zakat muslim hast to pay!!! 20% of the grain if not irrigated or 10% of the grain if irrigated. Then again 1/40 th of the unused money and gold in every year.


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## Lighting_Fighter

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> You are making Bull sheets. I am confined to my nation and my world. Others have no importance at all. Your India, Never. It is not so important for me at all. Please, read all my posts clearly. I haven't shown any single interest on India.



I don't care about India. Give me hadith or qur'anic reference then talk about kaom.


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## StandForInsaf

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> I am Shiraj, Shiraj is the soil product of my ancient Bangladesh. He is our Patriotic Brother. He is created from the Dusts of my territory. We must not accept any false and ill motivated comments about him. You may call that Shiraj's ancestors was from Arab Peninsula. That was few generations ago. But after few generations He became the Part of *my ancient Dravidian Bangladeshi Nation*. Barack Obama is that type of example. He is from Kenyan origin. But He is pure American and the American Leader, patriotic leader for the America. He is made from the Dust of America, not from the Kenya. So, there is no confusion. So, there is no residue for the Aryan clusters to catch fish there.
> 
> 
> We are the Bangladesh. We are the *continua-tor* of the *ancient Dravidian Nation*, Fighter against the *Aryan cluster since the ancient time.
> Shame on the aggressors*.



One thing i must ask after reading your strange comments, do you believe that this is a fight between Dravidian and Aryan aka Black and white ?


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Lighting_Fighter said:


> I don't care about India. Give me hadith or qur'anic reference then talk about kaom.



I have given the reference of the Sura Al Hujurat , Ayat:13, of the Holy Al Qur'an in my previous post.

That shows how the Nations are created by the Almighty, and what is the reason for the creation of different Nations. There is no confusion at all as the Holy Al Qur'an is a simplified one which is the grace of the Almighty Allah.

Yes, Islam is the only Din for the Ummah. Ummah is like one body. Those Nations are the part of that body.

This is clear. There is no confusion at all.


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## patna_ke_presley

iajdani said:


> Anyways yu forgot about mandatory Zakat muslim hast to pay!!! 20% of the grain if not irrigated or 10% of the grain if irrigated. Then again 1/40 th of the unused money and gold in every year.



Jaziya was more than twice of Zakat, apart from this head of the family has to come on food to pay the tax personally. Apart from Jaziya and extra Pilgrimage tax, merchant tax. 

&#8220;If the Jizyah-collector asks a Hindu for silver, the latter should offer gold in all humility. If the collector wishes to spit into his mouth, the latter should open his mouth without demur, so as to enable the former to spit into it.&#8221; [from Diyâ' ad-Dîn Baranî, Tarîkh-i Firozshâhi, Sayyid Athar Abbas Rizwi, selected Hindi tr., in his Khaljî-Kalîna Bhârata, Aligarh, 1955, p. 70]

When Aurangzeb re-introduced Jaziya, many people assembled near his palace to protest and in return Aurangzeb sent many elephants on the mob to disperse it and many people were killed by elephants.


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

StandForInsaf said:


> One thing i must ask after reading your strange comments, do you believe that this is a fight between Dravidian and Aryan aka Black and white ?



Actually this is correct for some extent. Aryans are actually some cluster, who are coward, have no creativity, always think about the looting of others. It is the problems of them. They are very few in number(may be three or four percent). They enjoy about the ninety percent share of the total politics, economy and other sharing. You can check that status in Aryan led country. It is very easy policy. Those Aryans maintain strict marriage policy to maintain their grasping Nature. You can justify my comment by observing your neighbor. Those cluster is the producer of the worst oligarch-ism. Those are not appropriate to live any Nations. But some Nations are totally spoiled by those cowards. Yes, those coward Aryans still exists. There is always a battle prevalent in the world that is Good Vs Devil.

Aggressors are the devil. If all the mass people get the teaching of the Nationalism, those clusters must be perished to their rightful place. We the Bangladeshis, have done that from the ancient time. There is no place of any Aryan cluster or any type of the aggressors in my territory. It is not like Black-White race. It is not the racism. It is the fighting of the mass from the hungry hounds or hungry boars.


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## StandForInsaf

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> Actually this is correct for some extent. *Aryans are actually some cluster, who are coward, have no creativity*, *always think about the looting of others*. It *is *the problems of them. They are very few in number(may be three or four percent). They enjoy about the ninety percent share of the total politics, economy and other sharing. You can check that status in Aryan led country. It is very easy policy. Those Aryans maintain strict marriage policy to maintain their grasping Nature. You can justify my comment by observing your neighbor. Those cluster is the producer the worst oligarch-ism. Those are not appropriate to live any Nations. But some Nations are totally spoiled by those cowards. Yes, those coward Aryans still exists. There is always a battle prevalent in the world that is Good Vs Devil.
> 
> *Aggressors are the devil*. If all the mass people get the teaching of the Nationalism, those clusters must be perished to their rightful place. We the Bangladeshis, have done that from the ancient time. There is no place of any Aryan cluster in my territory and any type of the aggressors. *It is not like Black-White race. It is not the racism*. *It is the fighting of the mass from the hungry hounds or hungry boars*.



First of all yes this is racism , 
second how could you label whole population of not being creative , and being a coward ? , being hungry boars ? any proofs of you statement?



> Aggressors are the devil


Aryan supposed to be settled thousand of years before are the, 
how people living current era considered to be so called "devil" ?



> those clusters must be perished to their rightful place


you are talking to murder a full population ?

*Instead of spreading racism you should be focusing on equality and justice without prejudice .*


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## extra terrestrial

Zabaniya said:


> *Perhaps it would have been better if we had our very own Muslim Bengal, living in peace with both India and Pakistan in the first place.*



Spot on!!! With due respect to Hossain Suhrawardy, A K Fazlul Haque, They will always remain a bit guilty to me for the correction in Lahore Resolution, making it from "_more than one Muslim nations_" to "_only one Muslim nation_"!!

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## TopCat

patna_ke_presley said:


> Jaziya was more than twice of Zakat, apart from this head of the family has to come on food to pay the tax personally. Apart from Jaziya and extra Pilgrimage tax, merchant tax.



Zakat is in addition to what Muslim paid to the government. Jazyah was 10% of the produced paid to the government.


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## Lighting_Fighter

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> I have given the reference of the Sura Al Hujurat , Ayat:13, of the Holy Al Qur'an in my previous post.
> 
> That shows how the Nations are created by the Almighty, and what is the reason for the creation of different Nations. There is no confusion at all as the Holy Al Qur'an is a simplified one which is the grace of the Almighty Allah.
> 
> Yes, Islam is the only Din for the Ummah. Ummah is like one body. Those Nations are the part of that body.
> 
> This is clear. There is no confusion at all.



You have taken the ayah fully out of context. If that is so, I can take an ayah out of context from the same surah and say to you here it is, an english translation of Abdullah Yusuf Ali:

The Believers are but a single Brotherhood: so make peace and reconciliation between your two (contending) brothers, and fear Allah, that you may receive Mercy.(Ayah:10, Surah Al Hujurat)

You took the aya out of context the aya does not say that we have to create separate nations following islam. If you so like to be a single dravidian nation, buy an island and go live there.


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## TopCat

extra terrestrial said:


> Spot on!!! With due respect to Hossain Suhrawardy, A K Fazlul Haque, They will always remain a bit guilty to me for the correction in Lahore Resolution, making it from "_more than one Muslim nations_" to "_only one Muslim nation_"!!



It was actually, your own reative Khaja Nazimuddin who opposed the idea of Independend secular Bengal. He was too conservative, too hatefull towards Hindu. He even opposed the inclusion of Tripura when the queen of Tripura waited 15 days in Dhaka for a positive nod from Mr. Nazimuddin. Later she gone back and joined India.


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## extra terrestrial

iajdani said:


> It was actually, your own reative Khaja Nazimuddin who opposed the idea of Independend secular Bengal. He was too conservative, too hatefull towards Hindu. He even opposed the inclusion of Tripura when the queen of Tripura waited 15 days in Dhaka for a positive nod from Mr. Nazimuddin. Later she gone back and joined India.



Doesn't matter, put him in the list as well, BTW, he's already a culprit to me for opposing the language movement!! But, as far as I know, the nawab family is not really hateful towards Hindus, many Hindus took shelter in Nawabbari during the liberation war!!

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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

extra terrestrial said:


> Spot on!!! With due respect to Hossain Suhrawardy, A K Fazlul Haque, They will always remain a bit guilty to me for the correction in Lahore Resolution, making it from "_more than one Muslim nations_" to "_only one Muslim nation_"!!



Suhrawardy was the paid servant of the congress to destroy the United Bangladesh. This Suhrawaria Sufist are always against the Sunni populated Bangladeshi Nation. I am astonished how these foreigner Sufist become the leader of my Nation. He was the initiator to destroy my Nation by uniting us with the Pakistan. He is of course the betrayer. Lahore was gained by the Punjabis, but we lost the Kolakata. The Punjabis and the Aryans are successful to destroy the United Bangladesh. Punjabis are enjoying the Lahore and the Aryans are now enjoying the Kolkata. We lost everything, every false commitment. Now , We are trapped in small region with the huge population due to the conspiracy of the Congress and the Punjabis with the help of the collaborator Suhrawardy. Suhrawardias are the stand against the Sunnis and motivated by the Zoroastrians wearing the mask in the face!!

Sher E Bangla Aboul Kashem Fazlul Haque has tried his best to gain the United Bangladesh along with us. But we were tragically failed. It is the tragic story of history of the Bangladeshi Nation. We were combined attacked by the Aryans, Punjabis along with the local collaborators.

Shame on the collaborators.

But, We are not a myth. We must stand by proving our own merits by the grace of the Almighty. We must spread all over the world to provide the better services to the world. We are proud to the Bangladeshi.


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## eastwatch

iajdani said:


> Anyways yu forgot about mandatory Zakat muslim hast to pay!!! 20% of the grain if not irrigated or 10% of the grain if irrigated. Then again 1/40 th of the unused money and gold in every year.



In addition to what you said, all the muslims had to join a military expedition whenever called upon, and die whenever needed. But, non-Muslims had to pay only a small amount of Jijiya and they were not obliged to take part in a military expedition. The Jijiya law seems to have favoured the non-muslims. Only a small money for a longer life!


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## patna_ke_presley

iajdani said:


> Zakat is in addition to what Muslim paid to the government. Jazyah was 10% of the produced paid to the government.



*"20% of the grain if not irrigated or 10% of the grain if irrigated"* It is the normal tax paid by all Hindus, Sikh and Muslims but I don't know exact percentage for Hindus and sikhs . Jaziya was 10% extra tax but Zakat was only 2.5%. Apart from 10% extra tax, all Hindus have to pay extra Pilgrimage tax to visit their holy sites and double tax for merchants(2.5% for Muslims and 5% for Hindus)
The motive of Zakat was good intention to help the poor Muslims but intention was Jaziya was to humiliate Hindus, the taxpayer had to appear personally and often abused and beaten up by tax-collector.

*I am a secular person but it doesn't mean that I will accept big lie of equality during Islamic rule in India. * Our Somnath Temple was demolished 5 times during this period, Bakhtiyar Khilji set Nalanda University and Vikramshila University on fire. The Sanskrit College of Ajmer was demolished and "Dhai Din ka Jhopda" was raised over there.

I also found this, similar story written about Jaziya tax in India. _In 1894 jizya was still being collected in Morocco; an Italian Jew described his experience there:
The kadi Uwida and the kadi Mawlay Mustafa had mounted their tent today near the Mellah [Jewish ghetto] gate and had summoned the Jews in order to collect from them the poll tax [jizya] which they are obliged to pay the sultan. They had me summoned also. I first inquired whether those who were European-protected subjects had to pay this tax. Having learned that a great many of them had already paid it, I wished to do likewise. After having remitted the amount of the tax to the two officials, I received from the kadi&#8217;s guard two blows in the back of the neck. Addressing the kadi and the kaid, I said&#8221; &#8216;Know that I am an Italian protected subject.&#8217; Whereupon the kadi said to his guard: &#8216;Remove the kerchief covering his head and strike him strongly; he can then go and complain wherever he wants.&#8217; The guards hastily obeyed and struck me once again more violently. This public mistreatment of a European-protected subject demonstrates to all the Arabs that they can, with impunity, mistreat the Jews._


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## Lighting_Fighter

kee sheikh saheb no answer to my last post. I am eagerly waiting what u have to say.


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

StandForInsaf said:


> First of all yes this is racism ,
> second how could you label whole population of not being creative , and being a coward ? , being hungry boars ? any proofs of you statement?
> 
> 
> Aryan supposed to be settled thousand of years before are the,
> how people living current era considered to be so called "devil" ?
> 
> 
> you are talking to murder a full population ?
> 
> *Instead of spreading racism you should be focusing on equality and justice without prejudice .*



We the Dravidians are the cultivators of our own territory. Aryans are the invader who came from the Eastern Europe. Aryans are not the race. It is the cluster of the Hungry hounds. There are not more than two or three percent of Any Aryan led Nation.

Those are the organizer of the worst oligarch-ism to destroy Nations. Those should be removed from any Nation for the betterment of that Nation. There is no alteration of that for the betterment of that country. We the Bangladeshis are free from any type of oligarch-ism and so called Aryanism. Aryans are isolated, those clusters should get the rightful place. At first , the mass people should learn the true Nationalism.

So, there is no confusion. Suppressing the aggressive hound clusters is not the racism. It is the struggle to save the mass people from being tortured by Cruel Animal Clusters. Aggressors are always isolated. It is the advantage for every Nationalist.

We are not the planner of the mass Killing. History has proved that, Who is the mass killer like animal? Still those killers are killing own territory members as a agents of the foreign aggressors. I have nothing to say about that. We know them well by sacrificing our lives very tragically at different times. There is no need of repeat of that.

Shame On the all racists. Shame on the all Aggressors. Those must be crushed by Pure Nationalists(true defender of the Nation).

---------- Post added at 08:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 PM ----------




StandForInsaf said:


> First of all yes this is racism ,
> second how could you label whole population of not being creative , and being a coward ? , being hungry boars ? any proofs of you statement?
> 
> 
> Aryan supposed to be settled thousand of years before are the,
> how people living current era considered to be so called "devil" ?
> 
> 
> you are talking to murder a full population ?
> 
> *Instead of spreading racism you should be focusing on equality and justice without prejudice .*



We the Dravidians are the cultivators of our own territory. Aryans are the invader who came from the Eastern Europe. Aryans are not the race. It is the cluster of the Hungry hounds. There are not more than two or three percent of Any Aryan led Nation.

Those are the organizer of the worst oligarch-ism to destroy Nations. Those should be removed from any Nation for the betterment of that Nation. There is no alteration of that for the betterment of that country. We the Bangladeshis are free from any type of oligarch-ism and so called Aryanism. Aryans are isolated, those clusters should get the rightful place. At first , the mass people should learn the true Nationalism.

So, there is no confusion. Suppressing the aggressive hound clusters is not the racism. It is the struggle to save the mass people from being tortured by Cruel Animal Clusters. Aggressors are always isolated. It is the advantage for every Nationalist.

We are not the planner of the mass Killing. History has proved that, Who is the mass killer like animal? Still those killers are killing own territory members as a agents of the foreign aggressors. I have nothing to say about that. We know them well by sacrificing our lives very tragically at different times. There is no need of repeat of that.

Shame On the all racists. Shame on the all Aggressors. Those must be crushed by Pure Nationalists(true defender of the Nation).


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## patna_ke_presley

eastwatch said:


> In addition to what you said,* all the muslims had to join a military expedition whenever called upon*, and die whenever needed. But, non-Muslims had to pay only a small amount of Jijiya and they were not obliged to take part in a military expedition. The Jijiya law seems to have favoured the non-muslims. Only a small money for a longer life!



Joining as a soldier is not considered as Tax because soldiers got every facility and they used to get share in the booty they plundered during war expedition. Also, I never heard of any peasant revolt against Sultans such move because serving the Sultan for a war had always been considered great deed among people.


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

patna_ke_presley said:


> *"20% of the grain if not irrigated or 10% of the grain if irrigated"* It is the normal tax paid by all Hindus, Sikh and Muslims but I don't know exact percentage for Hindus and sikhs . Jaziya was 10% extra tax but Zakat was only 2.5%. Apart from 10% extra tax, all Hindus have to pay extra Pilgrimage tax to visit their holy sites and double tax for merchants(2.5% for Muslims and 5% for Hindus)
> The motive of Zakat was good intention to help the poor Muslims but intention was Jaziya was to humiliate Hindus, the taxpayer had to appear personally and often abused and beaten up by tax-collector.
> 
> *I am a secular person but it doesn't mean that I will accept big lie of equality during Islamic rule in India. * Our Somnath Temple was demolished 5 times during this period, Bakhtiyar Khilji set Nalanda University and Vikramshila University on fire. The Sanskrit College of Ajmer was demolished and "Dhai Din ka Jhopda" was raised over there.
> 
> I also found this, similar story written about Jaziya tax in India. _In 1894 jizya was still being collected in Morocco; an Italian Jew described his experience there:
> The kadi Uwida and the kadi Mawlay Mustafa had mounted their tent today near the Mellah [Jewish ghetto] gate and had summoned the Jews in order to collect from them the poll tax [jizya] which they are obliged to pay the sultan. They had me summoned also. I first inquired whether those who were European-protected subjects had to pay this tax. Having learned that a great many of them had already paid it, I wished to do likewise. After having remitted the amount of the tax to the two officials, I received from the kadi&#8217;s guard two blows in the back of the neck. Addressing the kadi and the kaid, I said&#8221; &#8216;Know that I am an Italian protected subject.&#8217; Whereupon the kadi said to his guard: &#8216;Remove the kerchief covering his head and strike him strongly; he can then go and complain wherever he wants.&#8217; The guards hastily obeyed and struck me once again more violently. This public mistreatment of a European-protected subject demonstrates to all the Arabs that they can, with impunity, mistreat the Jews._




Indian story is not related to Bangladesh. We had separate Independent Sultanate.Just search the history in Google. Your gossips of India are not related to our people at all. You should consult with your own people about those.


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## StandForInsaf

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> We the Dravidians are the cultivators of our own territory. Aryans are the invader who came from the Eastern Europe. Aryans are not the race. It is the cluster of the Hungry hounds. There are not more than two or three percent of Any Aryan led Nation.
> 
> Those are the organizer of the worst oligarch-ism to destroy Nations. Those should be removed from any Nation for the betterment of that Nation. There is no alteration of that for the betterment of that country. We the Bangladeshis are free from any type of oligarch-ism and so called Aryanism. Aryans are isolated, those clusters should get the rightful place. At first , the mass people should learn the true Nationalism.
> 
> So, there is no confusion. Suppressing the aggressive hound clusters is not the racism. It is the struggle to save the mass people from being tortured by Cruel Animal Clusters. Aggressors are always isolated. It is the advantage for every Nationalist.
> 
> We are not the planner of the mass Killing. History has proved that, Who is the mass killer like animal? Still those killers are killing own territory members as a agents of the foreign aggressors. I have nothing to say about that. We know them well by sacrificing our lives very tragically at different times. There is no need of repeat of that.
> 
> Shame On the all racists. Shame on the all Aggressors. Those must be crushed by Pure Nationalists(true defender of the Nation).



Ok just cool down take a glass of water , i told you all about facts ,
No one supports mass murders neither any sane person should do that.

My comments are based on facts and in favor of humanity in general if you read them carefully.


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

Lighting_Fighter said:


> kee sheikh saheb no answer to my last post. I am eagerly waiting what u have to say.




I have nothing more information about that. You should understand the confirmation of the different Nations and the reasons behind of that from the Ayat of the Holy Al Qur'an. You should understand that Ummah is the single body. Muslim Nations are pillars of the Ummah.

Come out from the Vondo Maododism(Congress agent, Anti Muslim League, misuser of the Islamic cloth, Indian by origin who believe in Pan Indian-ism for this reason, He spread the confusion to destroy the Muslim Nations of this region, a paid servant, killers of the Muslim).


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## TopCat

patna_ke_presley said:


> *"20% of the grain if not irrigated or 10% of the grain if irrigated"* It is the normal tax paid by all Hindus, Sikh and Muslims but I don't know exact percentage for Hindus and sikhs . Jaziya was 10% extra tax but Zakat was only 2.5%. Apart from 10% extra tax, all Hindus have to pay extra Pilgrimage tax to visit their holy sites and double tax for merchants(2.5% for Muslims and 5% for Hindus)
> The motive of Zakat was good intention to help the poor Muslims but intention was Jaziya was to humiliate Hindus, the taxpayer had to appear personally and often abused and beaten up by tax-collector.
> 
> *I am a secular person but it doesn't mean that I will accept big lie of equality during Islamic rule in India. * Our Somnath Temple was demolished 5 times during this period, Bakhtiyar Khilji set Nalanda University and Vikramshila University on fire. The Sanskrit College of Ajmer was demolished and "Dhai Din ka Jhopda" was raised over there.
> 
> I also found this, similar story written about Jaziya tax in India. _In 1894 jizya was still being collected in Morocco; an Italian Jew described his experience there:
> The kadi Uwida and the kadi Mawlay Mustafa had mounted their tent today near the Mellah [Jewish ghetto] gate and had summoned the Jews in order to collect from them the poll tax [jizya] which they are obliged to pay the sultan. They had me summoned also. I first inquired whether those who were European-protected subjects had to pay this tax. Having learned that a great many of them had already paid it, I wished to do likewise. After having remitted the amount of the tax to the two officials, I received from the kadis guard two blows in the back of the neck. Addressing the kadi and the kaid, I said Know that I am an Italian protected subject. Whereupon the kadi said to his guard: Remove the kerchief covering his head and strike him strongly; he can then go and complain wherever he wants. The guards hastily obeyed and struck me once again more violently. This public mistreatment of a European-protected subject demonstrates to all the Arabs that they can, with impunity, mistreat the Jews._



Well brother, I understand what you are saying, as you are against Jazyia. Well as a citizen you suppose to pay taxes and the tax should had been imposed evenly and more transparently. I can lecture you whole night long that at the end of the day Muslim did not pay any less, but you wont buy it as it was done in different manner and applied differently among muslim and non muslim. It was the failure of the then ruler that they could do it in a humane and transparent manner.

According to Islam, Muslim has to pay Osul (20% of the produced) and Zakat also any tax imposed upon them by the government and take part in military. For nonmuslim it is Zajiya (10% even) to the state in return they will be protected and not bound to take part in military. Now other than Zakat and Osul which is the personal responsibilty of the Muslim, the state can and free to apply taxes to its own citizen whatever suits them. If Zajiya had a negative implication then the ruler should had taken a more popular approach where majority of the citizen were non muslim.

PS: Muslim pays pilgrimage taxes while going for Hajj in Mecca to the saudi government. That probably prompted Moghul to earn few pennys from Hindus as well. LOL


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## third eye

Somewhere down the line Pak too I feel has realised that seperation from its Eastern wing was the right thing to have happened like India to my mind should realise that partition was the right & logical thing to have happened.

Provided we can move on and accept realities...


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## Bhairava

bilalhaider said:


> Once the WOT is over, there will be no suicide bombings in Pakistan. There were no suicide bombings in Pakistan pre-9/11.



I doubt if Pakistan will ever go to pre-9/11 days.


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## raavan

how many 1971 war related threads do we need to get the point accross.....honestly people get over it


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## foxbat

lonelyone said:


> Bangladesh has not prospered. After independence, Sheikh Mujib with his socialist policies totally destroyed the country from top to bottom. All industries, universities, etc. were destroyed due to his and his party's mismanagement and corruption. Of course, after his rapist nephew raped some wife of a army officer Sheikh Mujib, his rapist nephew and all his family was killed in a coup by that officer.
> 
> Of course on the positive side we don't have suicide bombs exploding every day, and on that front we're better than Pakistan. But we now import machines from Pakistan, which we used to make ourselves when we were East Pakistan. sad situation.



But economically and on most HDI indicators, BD is performing better than Pakistan today.. Isnt it?


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## niaz

Cessation of Bangla Dash was a great shock to me and the wounds are still raw. The reasons are primarily two.

Having being born in 1943 I virtually grew up with Pakistan. I always considered East Pakistani Bengalis as my brothers and compatriots. It felt as if I lost half of my home in 1971 and I still feel a pang of disappointment. Feelings die hard and to this day I have a soft spot for the Bangla Deshis.

Secondly, I was brought up on Two Nation Theory and Muslim brotherhood. The realization that this was no longer the case sent a shock and I had to completely change my thinking process. In way I grew up and realized that having the same religion does not mean that we are the same nation. Language and ethnic considerations can outweigh when it comes to nation building. Alas this still reality has not dawned on many of my countrymen to this day.

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## monitor

raavan said:


> how many 1971 war related threads do we need to get the point accross.....honestly people get over it


 

*Moderator look seriously in to this matter, please make a sub section in Military history section for All the 1971 matter.Thanks *


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## Syed Naved

niaz said:


> Cessation of Bangla Dash was a great shock to me and the wounds are still raw. The reasons are primarily two.
> 
> Having being born in 1943 I virtually grew up with Pakistan. I always considered East Pakistani Bengalis as my brothers and compatriots. It felt as if I lost half of my home in 1971 and I still feel a pang of disappointment. Feelings die hard and to this day I have a soft spot for the Bangla Deshis.
> 
> Secondly, I was brought up on Two Nation Theory and Muslim brotherhood. The realization that this was no longer the case sent a shock and I had to completely change my thinking process. In way I grew up and realized that having the same religion does not mean that we are the same nation. Language and ethnic considerations can outweigh when it comes to nation building. Alas this still reality has not dawned on many of my countrymen to this day.


 Cessation of eastern wing is the most painful thing of history.if today two wing were united ,thn pakistan hi hota sab se powerful,united islamic country both in size and power. alas ! that it took place !! and for that indian conspiracy,politicians ediotic roll & some traitor like mujib is responsible..but still we can maintain warm brotherly relation by forgettin the past

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## Luffy 500

Syed Naved said:


> Cessation of eastern wing is the most painful thing of history.if today two wing were united ,thn pakistan hi hota sab se powerful,united islamic country both in size and power. alas ! that it took place !! and for that indian conspiracy,politicians ediotic roll & some traitor like mujib is responsible..but still we can maintain warm brotherly relation by forgettin the past



I don't think we can maintain a good relation as long as Indian stooge hasina is in power. She & her Awami league stands in the way of Bangladeshi's prosperity. Our country is going through a very volatile phase right now.

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## Uchiha

Bhairava said:


> I doubt if Pakistan will ever go to pre-9/11 days.


*America/NATO
(becuase we dont give a damn, just caught in the crossfire)


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## PlanetSoldier

Syed Naved said:


> you emotional fool ,learn to wide your heart.Its my decission what will i say or not,and yes pakistan devided peoples like you.one can go against martial law,govt ,administration not against country.thats why you have no right to teach me any lesson.



Sir Syed Naved, the true Arabian horse breed in Bangla, you missed to add something in your longer aristocratic chain history of your family background that is "the noble role of your family" during 71. Would you mind telling that freely to us or we automatically assume that your family members were those bunch of shits who should have been kicked out of this land but for Sheikh Mujib's wrong decision still living happily in Bangla  ?

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## clmeta

self delete


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## Md Akmal

iajdani said:


> It was actually, your own reative Khaja Nazimuddin who opposed the idea of Independend secular Bengal. He was too conservative, too hatefull towards Hindu. He even opposed the inclusion of Tripura when the queen of Tripura waited 15 days in Dhaka for a positive nod from Mr. Nazimuddin. Later she gone back and joined India.



@ The Queen of Tripura wanted to meet Jinnah. As because it was only Jinnah who could give the final decision.

@ At that critical period the Chief of Army was a British soldiers. Moreso most of the Commanders and decision makers in the army were British.

@ At that time strenght of East Pakistan Army was not even a Brigade. I read in 1947 just after our independence there was only one Punjab Regiment stationed at Eastern Wing. We had one skeleton 20 Division stationed at Old High Court Building. General Ayub Khan has just being posted as a new General Officer Commanding Eastern Wing but in the true sense he has nothing in his hand. 

@ Md Ali Jinnah was busy with the tribal force of NWFP in order to infiltrate in Kashmir. Under these circumstance a newly born country with such a megre force cannot take so much of risk. With this one Punjab Regiment of Force supported by Bengal scouts Pakistan could capture Rangamati (CHT) once elements of Congress hosted the Indian flag at Rangamati on 14/15 August 1947.

@ We have a tendency to blame Jinnah and Pakistan for our every deeds. Even after getting our independence we are blaming Pakistan.


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## PlanetSoldier

kobiraaz said:


> Consider yourself lucky as you are a student of Bangladesh Medical College where students politics is not active otherwise both Chhatradal and Chhatraleague both would have Chopped your hands off. Anyway on your facebook profile you wrote your political view is DAB. This silly guy is a prominent DAB activist and we are gonna meet very soon.....



What is DAB Farhan?


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## junaid1

Yahya Khan ,a drunken bastard was responsible for separation of east pakistan .he should burn in hell  

Happy for bangalis ,they got their identity .

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## Md Akmal

junaid1 said:


> Yahya Khan ,a drunken bastard was responsible for separation of east pakistan .he should burn in hell
> 
> Happy for bangalis ,they got their identity .



_*My Memories of United Pakistan-Part-0ne *_


@ Why you are blaming him alone, Bhutto was also responsible for a greater extend. As per my assessment Yahya did the following mistake:

1. Ayub did not handed over power to Yahya peacefully rather it was a silent military coup. During that period I was at Rawalpindi near GHQ, Margella Barracks though I was kid.

2. What I realized once Ayub was shot at Peshawar soon People's Party came out on the street. Bengalees in East Pakistan lately realised and they also started agitating against Ayub. I remember, I saw one " Jalush" which started from our college on the "Mal Road" and hit at the Continental Hotel. All the glasses of the hotel were broken. On the way all street light were broken. That was the first "Jalush" I saw for the first time in my life. The slogan was some thing, " Ayub ***** Hai, Hai ". In fact in this particular day we were supposed to take "Tika" (some sort of anti-viral injection). We were the line but suddenly it stopped some senior student came from the college and said not to take the injection as it is being planted to kill all students by Ayub. All medicines of the compounder were broken. Soon , Ayub fell sick and he was sick for a month. During this 30 days he was completely isolated from the media and TV. Soon he went for treatment in UK and after some days he came back fresh. But by this time "Kella Fete". His grip on the administration and Army was lost. During the long agitation many people were killed. During those bad days no second politician(Convention Muslim Leaque) was available to lead the nation. The young cadres of Butto and Mujib were too strong and within a short spun of time everywhere they had a strong grip.

2. So, Yahya captured power and declared Martial Law. He also abrogate the constitution of 1962. He should have restored the constitution of 1956.

3. Yahya immediately sacked some 500 central CSP officers believed to be supporter of Ayub. Probably he also frozen the bank accounts of 22 families(industrial elites).

4. Yahya at once freezes the central fund of Convention Muslim Leaque. During those days ML was divided into 3 groups. Counsil Muslim Leaque, Convention Muslim Leaque and Qaumi Muslim Leaque. Yahya and its intelligence group wanted these Muslim Leaques to remain devited so that they donnot form majority and come to power. He was afraid of ML as they came to power by force. Other pro-Pakistani political parties(rightist) like Pakistan Democratic Party, Nijame Islami, and Jammat-i-Islami were also not united. ( May continue if public wants)

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## PlanetSoldier

Md Akmal said:


> @ Why you are blaming him alone, Bhutto was also responsible for a greater extend. As per my assessment Yahya did the following mistake:
> 
> 1. Ayub did not handed over power to Yahya peacefully rather it was a silent military coup. During that period I was at Rawalpindi near GHQ, Margella Bracks though I was kid.
> 
> 2. What I realized once Ayub was shot at Peshawar soon People's Party came out on the street. Bengalees in East Pakistan lately realised and they also started agitating against Ayub. I remember, I saw one " Jalush" which started from our college on the "Mal Road" and hit at the Continental Hotel. All the glasses of the hotel were broken. On the way all street light were broken. That was the first "Jalush" I saw for the first time in my life. The slogan was some thing, " Ayub ***** Hai, Hai ". In fact in this particular day we were supposed to take "Tika" (some sort of anti-viral injection). We were the line but suddenly it stopped some senior student came from the college and said not to take the injection as it is being planted to kill all students by Ayub. All medicines of the compounder were broken. Soon , Ayub fell sick and he was sick for a month. During this 30 days he was completely isolated from the media and TV. Soon he went for treatment in UK and after some days he came back fresh. But by this time "Kella Fete". His grip on the administration and Army was lost. During the long agitation many people were killed. During those bad days no second politician(Convention Muslim Leaque) was available to lead the nation. The young cadres of Butto and Mujib were too strong and within a short spun of time everywhere they had a strong grip.
> 
> 2. So, Yahya captured power and declared Martial Law. He also abrogate the constitution of 1962. He should have restored the constitution of 1956.
> 
> 3. Yahya immediately sacked some 500 central CSP officers believed to be supporter of Ayub. Probably he also frozen the bank accounts of 22 families(industrial elites).
> 
> 4. Yahya at once freezes the central fund of Convention Muslim Leaque. During those days ML was divided into 3 groups. Counsil Muslim Leaque, Convention Muslim Leaque and Qaumi Muslim Leaque. Yahya and its intelligence group wanted these Muslim Leaques to remain devited so that they donnot form majority and come to power. He was afrid of ML as they came to power by force. Other pro-Pakistani political parties(rightist) like Pakistan Democratic Party, Nijame Islami, and Jammat-i-Islami were also not united. ( May continue if public wants)



Interesting...you should continue. I wonder how old are you  .

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## Joe Shearer

Md Akmal said:


> @ Why you are blaming him alone, Bhutto was also responsible for a greater extend. As per my assessment Yahya did the following mistake:
> 
> 1. Ayub did not handed over power to Yahya peacefully rather it was a silent military coup. During that period I was at Rawalpindi near GHQ, Margella Bracks though I was kid.
> 
> 2. What I realized once Ayub was shot at Peshawar soon People's Party came out on the street. Bengalees in East Pakistan lately realised and they also started agitating against Ayub. I remember, I saw one " Jalush" which started from our college on the "Mal Road" and hit at the Continental Hotel. All the glasses of the hotel were broken. On the way all street light were broken. That was the first "Jalush" I saw for the first time in my life. The slogan was some thing, " Ayub ***** Hai, Hai ". In fact in this particular day we were supposed to take "Tika" (some sort of anti-viral injection). We were the line but suddenly it stopped some senior student came from the college and said not to take the injection as it is being planted to kill all students by Ayub. All medicines of the compounder were broken. Soon , Ayub fell sick and he was sick for a month. During this 30 days he was completely isolated from the media and TV. Soon he went for treatment in UK and after some days he came back fresh. But by this time "Kella Fete". His grip on the administration and Army was lost. During the long agitation many people were killed. During those bad days no second politician(Convention Muslim Leaque) was available to lead the nation. The young cadres of Butto and Mujib were too strong and within a short spun of time everywhere they had a strong grip.
> 
> 2. So, Yahya captured power and declared Martial Law. He also abrogate the constitution of 1962. He should have restored the constitution of 1956.
> 
> 3. Yahya immediately sacked some 500 central CSP officers believed to be supporter of Ayub. Probably he also frozen the bank accounts of 22 families(industrial elites).
> 
> 4. Yahya at once freezes the central fund of Convention Muslim Leaque. During those days ML was divided into 3 groups. Counsil Muslim Leaque, Convention Muslim Leaque and Qaumi Muslim Leaque. Yahya and its intelligence group wanted these Muslim Leaques to remain devited so that they donnot form majority and come to power. He was afrid of ML as they came to power by force. Other pro-Pakistani political parties(rightist) like Pakistan Democratic Party, Nijame Islami, and Jammat-i-Islami were also not united. ( May continue if public wants)



Please continue; you MUST continue.

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## Md Akmal

PlanetSoldier said:


> Interesting...you should continue. I wonder how old are you  .



@ IN 1970 I was a student of Class Seven.

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## Md Akmal

Joe Shearer said:


> Please continue; you MUST continue.



*My Memories of United Pakistan-Part-Two*

*Hi Joe Shearer,* I find you are very much interested about the military development and related political history of Pakistan and Bangladesh. I know many thinks as because my father servered in Pakistan Army as such I along with our family were in Pakistan in various Cantonments. In 1965 war we were in Pakistan at Noshera, so I saw some little bit aerial warfare. So, I was talking about General Aga Muhammad Yahya Khan. It was immaterial whether Yahya was a drunker ed or not. In those days in Pakistan cent % Armed Forces were habituated in Alkohal and these were all available in the Officer's Messes and too cheap. What I am going to write were what I saw, what I heard and lately compared and what I read and finally my opinion.

@ General Yahya was "Shia" and his blood came from Persia so he came from minority group. He got his commission during British time and was very professional officer. During Second World War he fought in African Campaign and was captured by the Axis Forces. But soon he escaped from prison. During the partition period he was the senior directing officer at Staff College at Quitta. He played a very key in preservation of this only institution from the hands of British and Indian officers. After independance once he was the Commanding Officer(GOC) of Eastern Wing for a short duration. Here he could extract the teste of "Tari"(local made wine from the juice of pam tree). He was he who took the initiative to make the Dacca garrision to look like Military garrission. He search, he brought and place the "Two Pounder Pom Pom Anti-aircraft Gun" and placed in front of his office and residence and other places of Dacca Cantonment. These guns are still almost in the same place.

@ Just after 1965 war he was made the C in C of Pakistan Armed Forces. He fought in 1965 War as Divisional Commander. He was always loyel to Ayub. It was said that in the late fifties during the "Rawalpindi Conspirency" he was with Ayub. That was the main reason he was made the Chief though there many good and vetern Panjabi officers in Pakistan Army. Soon he concentrated for the development of Pakistan Army specially East Pakistan. Soon the intake of Bengali Officers and Jawans were increased almost doubled. FM Ayub was little bit relactent about the Bengalees. Many a times I shoke hand with this General Yahya and saw his son. In each "Eid" I used to offer player at the GOLF Ground besides GHQ where Yahya also came.

@ In those days we the Bengalees in West Pakistan were in better position. In the classes we could easily dominate. Our pronouncation both Urdu and English were exellent. People used to take extra care about us. After the war of Lahore(1965), our prestige was elevated in Lahore. Whenever while coming to East Pakistan once we went for marketing at Lahore market and if some could smell that we are Bengalee you had it. They will look at your face, they will look as if you are a beautiful lady standing infront of him. They will have so much of respect for the Bengalee people which cannot be expressed in words. The reason was that during the 65 war there was one east Bengal Regiment located at Lahore sector and they fought with the Indian Army. All the common people of Lahore had the feeling that it was for this Bengali troops that Punjab was saved. I am telling you literally they never took money from us whatever may be the amount. They just will look at you and politely will say,_" Ap log mashreki Pakistan ke rehene warle hai na",_ "Ji, qui koi problem", "nai, nai koi bat nahi, ap log kia khaiyen ge, thanda yia garam". But hardly we had any time to talk with these people, we have to board on at the "Trident PIA Aircraft". In those days "Trident" was a Chinese made Boing which used to run from Dacca-Lahore and Karachi Lahore. On the aircraft, the Pakistani air hosted to say, " Khawatin o Hazraat, assala---- Pakistan International Air----, Bhudro mohilla and Bhudro mohadoy------- amra ar kichu khun er modh dhe dhaka tejga biman bondor e obotorun korbo-----".

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## Joe Shearer

I am hugely interested. What you are doing is recording oral history (even though you are writing it down). This account is very very useful.

What you say agrees with the viewpoint of military experts that Yahya had dissolute personal habits but was a good soldier and good for the Army.

Please continue. The waiting is painful.

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## masoomchichora

junaid1 said:


> *Yahya Khan ,a drunken bastard was responsible for separation of east pakistan .he should burn in hell
> *
> Happy for bangalis ,they got their identity .


zulfiqar ali bhutto was responsible for separation of east pakistan


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## Md Akmal

Joe Shearer said:


> I am hugely interested. What you are doing is recording oral history (even though you are writing it down). This account is very very useful.
> 
> What you say agrees with the viewpoint of military experts that Yahya had dissolute personal habits but was a good soldier and good for the Army.
> 
> Please continue. The waiting is painful.



*My Memories of United Pakistan-Part-Three*



Hey Joe Shearer, are you not one of those who trained 100 RAW trained Commandos and infiltrated inside Bangladesh like "Inside enemy Territory or like Behind enemy lines" ????? 

@ Now, let me tell something about the development of Pakistan army in East Pakistan. In 1947, there was only one skeleton Divisional HQ located here having only one Punjab Battalion and some Ordinance and other Corps elements. Most of the element of this probably 20/16 divisional elements opted for India. In thoses days there not a single Bengal regiment in Pakistan army due to mutiny of 1857. So, soon some regiments came from west Pakistan and a Full fleged Brigrade was raised at East Bengal. By 1948 East Bengal regiments were raised under the leadership of Major Goni and a Bengal training Centre was establised at Chittagong Notun Para Cantonment. By 65 once the war broke out East Pakistan had only three Brigrades located at Rangpur, Commilla and Jessore. Some Divisional elements were located at Dacca. But Pakistan army had huge Mujahids and Ansars in this wings. East Pakistan Rifles was also well trained by this time.

@ In fact Pakistan gave more inportance to West Pakistan than East Pakistan. Actually Pakistan army was in hurried position what to do ? How to defend Pakistan from Indian hand. Side by side in those days Indian Army was also no that strong. She also did not had the capability to fight in two fronts. It was absurt. In East Pakistan, Pakistan had one strong PAF fighter squadron of Australion made Sabre Jet. In those days that was the best. This lone squadron played a havoc in Eastern Zone. It carried out raid at Bagmara, Hashimara and other Indian airfields and destroyed 16 to 20 Indian aircrafts as claimed by Pakistan. In Western sector in all most 27 airports Pakistan carried out a simultaneous air raid and Commando attack by the SSG under the Dynamic leadership of General Mitha though it was a sucidal. Hardly any Commando people returned back safe and sound in Pakistan. But you see you have to judge their spirit for fighting. This General Mitha fought during Second World War in Burma Campaign specially in "Chindid Operation", a war behind the enemy line. Indian air raids at Dacca, Chittagaon, Lalmonierhat and Thakurgaon was not that effective. One SSG Company was deployed at Thakurgaon in order to cut off "Silliguri Corridor". However, no frontal fighting took place. I heard from a reliable source that during this time some riot took place in Dacca between Hindus and Muslims. Many properties of Hindus were snacked away and they to India emty hand. Soon Pakistan Govt proclaimed the "Enemy Property Act". By this those who flade to India their properties were confiscated by the Govt of Pakistan.
At that time, Munaem Khan was the Governor of East Pakistan. He huriedly called for a special Cabinet meeting where all political leaders were brought. It was said that here Sk Mujib openly suggested Governor to revolt against Central Govt and declare independence. What a mad character, he was !!!!!!!

@ Comparatively in 1965 War Pakistan army was much much stronger than Indian Army. There were many reasons for that. Nehru never believed for strong Indian Army. He always wanted a good relation with China. He was vocal about Non-Alignment Movement. Pakistan took this oppurtunity and quickly joined CENTO and SEATO. Pakistan also made a defence pact with USA. In those days Pakistan used to get lot of military aid from Australia, USA, and other Western Block countries. On the other hand poor India already lost a war with China in 1962. There was country to help India for modernisation of their Army. However, after 1962 America came forward and gave a huge military armament. Pakistan strongly objected it and said that these same armament would be used against Pakistan.

@ During the 65 war although USA did not helped Pakistan but it got huge help from Iran, Turkey and Indonesia. Iran even supplied many Airforce Pilot. Indonesia send many war planes. All logistic back up were helped by Iran. Pakistan was a member of RCD which stand for Regional Coperation For Development. Besides Pakistan, Iran and Turkey was its members.

@ After the war once Pakistan realised that Western World did not came to help Pakistan it tilted towards China and constructed the famous "Karakorum Highway Road". Many Bengalee Engineer Officers and troops joined in it. Now, in East Pakistan more 4/5 Bengal Regiments were raised and their military strenght was increased. Now, they have 4 Infanyrt Brigrade with one Tank regiment stationed at Rangpur with some elements at Dacca and Hathajari (Chittagong). China also built armament factory one at Wah(West Pakistan) and one at East Pakistan. Now(before March 1971) Pakistan Army had some forces to fight against India. But in the true sesnse after 1965 there was nobody to help Pakistan to build its armament other than China. Ayub tried his best to get some thing from USSR, even one consignment reached to Pakistan also but it was no use. Under these circumstances Yahya was in a complete delima what to do ? On the other hand India was moving very fast along with America and Socialist Block countries. America was not happy with Ayub as he already eveicted the American base at Peshawar. Ayub already tilted towards China and Third World Countries. During these period CIA and RAW made a secret alliance how to break Pakistan and finally came the "Agartolla Conspiracy" supported by India and USA. So, Sk Mujib became the most lubricate target !!!!!

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## Joe Shearer

Fascinating!

It sounds like you are stopping here, which will be a pity. No chance of any more, I take it?


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## Armstrong

*Akmal sahib* you must continue ! Its always a pleasure to hear a first-hand account from someone who was there when history was being made in contrast to hearing someone who got his history by reading a couple of books and filling in the blanks himself through some creative historiography !

My respects to you sir ! And a question, if you will : Punjabis are always blamed more so than any other ethnic group in Pakistan for most of the ills of the country (Yes..*Mr.Shearer* I read the article and I don't agree with it in its entirety !); one of the raison detre of BD's creation is often cited as Punjabi's racist and imperialistic attitude ! I have always found this to be far too difficult to believe because, if I may say so, if there is one province in Pakistan that characterizes the very best of 'Brotherhood', its Punjab where millions of Non-Ethnic Punjabis; Punjabi Kashmiris, Punjabi Puktoons, Punjabi Sindhis and so and so forth have settled down for decades (some for centuries) and they've been so washed away by Punjab's culture of inclusivity that many have actually forgotten their mother tongues and adopted Punjabi or Urdu instead ! My own family are ethnic Kashmiris who've lived here in Punjab well before the Partition and we don't know a word of Kashmiri (Kosur) but we speak Punjabi quite fluently; I've got Sindhis, Urdu-Speakers and Pukhtoons, who've lived here in Punjab, as my family and friends and not once have either of us been ever thought of as '*the others*' by our fellow Punjabis ! Heck...Punjab doesn't even have a 'Punjabi Nationalist Party', unlike those in some of our other provinces and not once have I ever seen a Non-Ethnic Punjabi (in my 21 years of life and 50+ of my father's) ever facing even an implied discrimination in Punjab ! So...whats your take on it ? Were Punjabis really to blame for the '71 ? I haven't seen anything to suggest this but then again I've heard a couple of BDs and some of my own countrymen assert as such ? But then again it could be because I'm a proud Punjabi-Kashmiri and a lover of all things Punjabi, and I can't see something right in front of me ? So really Sir, what is your take ?

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## Md Akmal

Armstrong said:


> *Akmal sahib* you must continue ! Its always a pleasure to hear a first-hand account from someone who was there when history was being made in contrast to hearing someone who got his history by reading a couple of books and filling in the blanks himself through some creative historiography !
> 
> My respects to you sir ! And a question, if you will : Punjabis are always blamed more so than any other ethnic group in Pakistan for most of the ills of the country (Yes..*Mr.Shearer* I read the article and I don't agree with it in its entirety !); one of the raison detre of BD's creation is often cited as Punjabi's racist and imperialistic attitude ! I have always found this to be far too difficult to believe because, if I may say so, if there is one province in Pakistan that characterizes the very best of 'Brotherhood', its Punjab where millions of Non-Ethnic Punjabis; Punjabi Kashmiris, Punjabi Puktoons, Punjabi Sindhis and so and so forth have settled down for decades (some for centuries) and they've been so washed away by Punjab's culture of inclusivity that many have actually forgotten their mother tongues and adopted Punjabi or Urdu instead ! My own family are ethnic Kashmiris who've lived here in Punjab well before the Partition and we don't know a word of Kashmiri (Kosur) but we speak Punjabi quite fluently; I've got Sindhis, Urdu-Speakers and Pukhtoons, who've lived here in Punjab, as my family and friends and not once have either of us been ever thought of as '*the others*' by our fellow Punjabis ! Heck...Punjab doesn't even have a 'Punjabi Nationalist Party', unlike those in some of our other provinces and not once have I ever seen a Non-Ethnic Punjabi (in my 21 years of life and 50+ of my father's) ever facing even an implied discrimination in Punjab ! So...whats your take on it ? Were Punjabis really to blame for the '71 ? I haven't seen anything to suggest this but then again I've heard a couple of BDs and some of my own countrymen assert as such ? But then again it could be because I'm a proud Punjabi-Kashmiri and a lover of all things Punjabi, and I can't see something right in front of me ? So really Sir, what is your take ?



@ I was in Peshawar, Noshera in the NWFP almost 3 years from 1964 to 1967. I mate lot of Pathan people. We used to visit villages besides the Kabul river. We were very fond of "Machlee", so we used to call the boatman who used to fish on the centre of river. Once we used to call him he hurriedly wears the shelwar and comes to the side of the river and says " Kocha tup ko kitna muchlee chahaiy." We used to say 2/3, he used to give as many as we can carry and in return just a tips of money. These Pathan people are very very simple hearted and most of them are illiterate. I used to study in a English Mediem school, named ," Cantt Public High School,(Noshera) on the road Sharai Shershah. Behind the college the officers club on the bank of river Kabul. In the front I guess the Artilley Centre and School. Noshera was a very important place during the British time. The town was a garrison. There was a Armoured School at the centre. Armoured Training school for the officers. Rasalpur was across the river which had a PAF taining centre. There were lot of urdu medum school in and around. Their standard was much below. All urdue medum school boys used to carry one "Tekhti" in one hand and one home made oven on the other hand during the winter season.

@ Politically Pathan people were not that active but they had a facination for separate "Pukhtoon".Most of these Pathan people did not supported the British and revolted against them. I have not seen any other people settled there other than Pathan. Pushtu is really a difficult language. This NWFP along with Punjab remained outside British Empire till 1846 when Ranjit was defeated by the Britishers. During the "Sepoy Mutiny" these Pathan people became too loyel to the British and as such many Pathan people were enrolled in the British Army. My experiences with the Pathan students in the class two/three, like this, " Bangalee babu aiya, morgi churake laya, morgine mara punja Bangalee babu bungia ganga".

@ Now "Punjabi", people and their attitude towards Bengalee. Among all ethinic people of Pakistan these Punjabi people were very proud of their service in the Army and Civil service during the British times and were in far better position than the Bengalees in East Bengal. As a result once Britisher left India there were many Civil Service men and Armed forces officers in Pakistan. On the other hand there were not a single ISP officer from the Bengalee muslim. As a result all civil serevent in the East Pakistan came from Punjab/Urdu speaking. This Punjabi people had a very cordial relation with the local Bihari people. This was not liked by the local Bengalees in this area. But I tell you it was this Punjabi force which was only formidable force stationed in East Bengal and it with this force who evicted the members of Congress who raised the flag of India at Rangamati on 16 August 1947.Had this Panjabi organised force not there at that critical time Chittagong Hill Tracts would had gone under Indian hand for ever. Still there is a place known a Panjabi Para in Khagrachori.

@ So just after independence Panjabis had a great influence in the civil as well in military administration . This was not liked by the Bengalees. Once the Punjabis were there in East Pakistan they used to behave like lords in the Civil administration. Side by side the urdu speaking people also joined with them. These urdu speaking people were more dengerious than even the Punjabis. all these collectively started hating the Bengale black people like the British. So now they became the "Gora Sab" in East Pakistan. So now the rift between the Bengali and Punjabi started. actually once the Pujabi officers were posted in Bengal in an isolated place the local Bihares started making love with them with their language as such the Punjabis also started liking them and took all the privileges forgetting about the greater population. Punjabis were more patriotic than the Sindhis and Pathans considering the case of liberation war. The most harmful were the urdu speaking people(Hindustani) in the armed forces. During the war of 1971 they almost lost all the spirit of fighting in this wing. It was only General Niazi in the true sense was highly determined to fight till the last. and I tell you that was the right decision. There were many many supporters of Pakistan aemy even during this critical stage. may be that was not visible. The Chakma lots along with MIzo Brigrade were whole heartedly supporting the Pakistan cause. East Pakistan was separated mainly by the propaganda of India and their all out support along with the people who migrated to India in 1947 and 1965. They invested heavily here. By the way during the liberation war of 1971 I was here in East Pakistan and closely observed the situation. well done red, green is the winner.

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## Md Akmal

Maadarboollah said:


> troll...you sound like a Pakistani and not Bangladeshi.... or are you really a Pakistani troll??


.

@ Who does not exploit ??? Do you think that now-a-days you people are not exploiting us ?


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## Armstrong

Md Akmal said:


> @ I was in Peshawar, Noshera in the NWFP almost 3 years from 1964 to 1967. I mate lot of Pathan people. We used to visit villages besides the Kabul river. Behind the college the officers club on the bank of river................East Pakistan was separated mainly by the propaganda of India and their all out support along with the people who migrated to India in 1947 and 1965. They invested heavily here. By the way during the liberation war of 1971 I was here in East Pakistan and closely observed the situation. well done red, green is the winner.



I don't know what to say, Akmal Sahib, except that I do apologize for the behavior of my Punjabi brethren ! But I've never known anything but Love and Inclusivity living here in Punjab and so its very hard for me to digest that my Punjabis could be responsible for such racism because it goes against every thing that the Punjabi Culture stands for ! I do, however, agree about the Civil Services part...even here in Lahore, the Civil Servants behave more like the last vestiges of Colonialism then true servants of the People ! By the way, my Grandfather was posted in Chittagong and then someplace called MymenSingh, as part of the MES (Military Engineering Services...I think !), and he was tasked, as a Civil Engineer, to build Army Cantonments in East-Pakistan (and all over Pakistan...from the Tribal Areas to Lahore, before that). In fact, my paternal uncle (taya...if you know what that means) was born in Dhaka in the '50s ! My Grandfather was there in Dhaka in '71 as part of some construction work for the MES and he along with his family escaped when the blood-shed started ! He used to tell some gruesome tales about how officers would come home to find their families slaughtered or poisoned by their Bengali domestic help and then those officers would go on a killing spree out in madness and kill innocent Bengalis ! But these were of course isolated events ! He always maintained that the Bengalis only wanted greater Provincial Autonomy and had Bhutto (and Yahya) relented, there wouldn't be a Bangladesh today !


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## Shinigami

Maadarboollah said:


> troll...you sound like a Pakistani and not Bangladeshi.... or are you really a Pakistani troll??



here is some advice: READ THE THREAD BEFORE YOU GO RANTING LIKE A TROLL


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## Joe Shearer

Maadarboollah said:


> troll...you sound like a Pakistani and not Bangladeshi.... or are you really a Pakistani troll??



Why are you attacking Akmal?

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## Armstrong

Akmal sahib, whenever you have the spare time, please do continue, sir !

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## Md Akmal

Armstrong said:


> I don't know what to say, Akmal Sahib, except that I do apologize for the behavior of my Punjabi brethren ! But I've never known anything but Love and Inclusivity living here in Punjab and so its very hard for me to digest that my Punjabis could be responsible for such racism because it goes against every thing that the Punjabi Culture stands for ! I do, however, agree about the Civil Services part...even here in Lahore, the Civil Servants behave more like the last vestiges of Colonialism then true servants of the People ! By the way, my Grandfather was posted in Chittagong and then someplace called MymenSingh, as part of the MES (Military Engineering Services...I think !), and he was tasked, as a Civil Engineer, to build Army Cantonments in East-Pakistan (and all over Pakistan...from the Tribal Areas to Lahore, before that). In fact, my paternal uncle (taya...if you know what that means) was born in Dhaka in the '50s ! My Grandfather was there in Dhaka in '71 as part of some construction work for the MES and he along with his family escaped when the blood-shed started ! He used to tell some gruesome tales about how officers would come home to find their families slaughtered or poisoned by their Bengali domestic help and then those officers would go on a killing spree out in madness and kill innocent Bengalis ! But these were of course isolated events ! He always maintained that the Bengalis only wanted greater Provincial Autonomy and had Bhutto (and Yahya) relented, there wouldn't be a Bangladesh today !



@ How to answer these historical questions ? Here now in this forum there are 4 types of people. One is Indian, 2nd is Pakistani, 3rd is true Bangladeshi and another is Indian motivated Bengalese like the AL who are still jumping without knowing the ground reality. OK, let me write the actual truth what I saw, what I heard, what I read and what I opine. It might heart many but these are facts. All these truth I lately realize. I tell you Indian and our motivated propaganda was so strong that being a Bengalee it was difficult to come out from this circle and find the truth. all these things were carried out in such a manner that it was justified on falsehood.

@ Look India is a big country. There were many many Bengali Hindu refugees who migrated to India. Many went at their own will. Many were forcefully evicted. Most of these Bengali refugees were not intentionally allowed to be re-rehabilitated in India. So, these people had a dream to return in Bengal this way or that way but definitely not within Pakistan. Most of these Bengali were literate. Basically this force was active from the very beginning to dismember Pakistan. Starting from Language movement up to to the final liberation war. But once the war started hardly any people from this group joined. All those people who struggled for Pakistan by now become old. Rather I will say were made isolated from the society by the propaganda of AL and India. The " Two Nation Theory" was not a fun in the Eastern Wing. The people believed it from their heart and implemented it. But once the language movement started it completely changed the scenario. Definitely to some extend Pakistani Central Govt was also responsible. The demands of language movement were well accepted by the Pakistani govt but dis-integration of Pakistan started.

@ In 1947, nearly 23/25 lac of Biharis came to the then East Pakistan. Besides, around 20/25 lac Bengali Muslims also came from India. Roughly 50 lac of Bengali Hindus migrated to India. Pakistan gave too much importance to these Biharis. Many refugee camps were made through out East Pakistan. Beharis were employed in the Railways and Communication centers. Once the industrialist from India (mainly 22 families) came and invested their money in East Pakistan like Adamjee Jute Mills and other large scale industries soon the non-Bengalis were quickly absorbed in these areas. The Bengali were also taken but since they had no experiences so they remained behind. Moreso, these non-Bengali industrialist had a soft corner for all these non-Bengalis. Soon Beharis were spread throughout the industrial belts. As such even during Pakistan times many a times a riot was broke out between Bengali and Behari in Narranganj where both parties were killed.

@ Once the movement started in East Pakistan against Central Govt these non-Bengalis were feeling in secured. In fact looting and intimidation of non-Bengali started from 01 March 1971. It was intensified after 7 March 1971 after Mujib's address. And killing started in the remote areas after 10 March 1971. By 26 March 1971 it went on free style. People were killed like dogs. It was a complete ethnic cleansing. Tell me where the people were not killed. People had the believe that if we can killed them our freedom is guaranteed. These all people were pro-Pakistani so kill them. All people in the EPR (East Pakistan Rifle), civil administrations, industries, educational institutions were brutally killed. What surprised us in many border belt many Indian volunteers came killed them along with us. In many places in order to killed them India supplied arms/ammo. How many killed that is a big question ? As per my assessment the figure is 3/4 lac. 

@ How many Pakistani Troops killed Bengalis I will not not go in detail but definitely while dis-arming Bengalee troops many were killed. Roughly 1000 killed in Chittagong Cantonment, 1000 in Comilla Cantonment, 500 in Rangpur Cantonment, 300 in Saidpur Cantonment, 800 hundred in Jessore Cantonment. I don not know about the killing at Dacca Cantonment, probably not. All these were uniformed person. Killing mission was carried out at Peelkhana and Rajarbag Police lines on 25/26 March 1971.

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## Md Akmal

_*" Magar yead rakhna, mujh se door rahker tup kabi sukhi na rahe sakogi, mera khiel har wakt tumhare samne aina ban kar reh jai ga".*_


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## Armstrong

A little late but still an interesting read ! 

The Other side of History ! 

History is always written by the victors, and in the case of the 1971 war, the dominant narrative has been that of atrocities committed against the Bengali population. But in her upcoming novel, Of Martyrs and Marigolds, Aquila Ismail dredges up the memories of her traumatic past in order to shine a light on the lesser-known atrocities of that conflict.
&#8220;My mother forgot how to speak Bengali after the trauma of 1971. It just went out of her head. She cannot speak it to this day,&#8221; says Aquila Ismail, as we sip tea in her sitting room on a winter&#8217;s evening in Karachi. One of the few Biharis who managed to flee Bangladesh after what is known in that country as the War of Liberation, Aquila now lives in the UAE. But over 250,000 of her fellow Biharis still live in squalid conditions in Bangladesh today, as a stateless minority.
While the atrocities of the Pakistan Army against the Bengali population during the war are well-documented, little is known about the plight of the Biharis who were left stranded when East Pakistan seceded in 1972, and what they suffered during and after the conflict. According to some estimates, 750,000 Biharis were left in Bangladesh in 1972, and not only did they face persecution at the hands of Bengalis, they were also disowned by Pakistan and became stateless overnight &#8212; in December 1971, while Pakistani army personnel and civilians were evacuated from Bangladesh, the Biharis were left behind.
But curiously, little has been written about the persecution faced by the Biharis. That is now changing. Last year, Sharmila Bose&#8217;s Dead Reckoning generated controversy for suggesting that Bengalis were not just passive victims, but committed &#8220;appalling atrocities&#8221; in the war for their liberation. Ruby Zaman&#8217;s novel Invisible Lines with its half-Bihari heroine also brought out hitherto unrecognised dimensions of the conflict. This year, Aquila Ismail comes out with her Of Martyrs and Marigolds, a fictionalised account of the conflict, based on her own experiences.
Aquila, who grew up in East Pakistan, and is fluent in Urdu, Bengali and English, remembers a time when there were no distinctions between herself and her Bengali friends. &#8220;There was no division between the Bengalis and us. All my friends were Bengali. We never felt a difference &#8212; till 1968,&#8221; she says.
That, of course, was the year that Ayub Khan initiated the Agartala Conspiracy case against Sheikh Mujeebur Rehman &#8212; the leader of the Awami League &#8212; accusing him of conspiring to secede from Pakistan.
&#8220;My friends used to tell me: &#8216;West Pakistanis are trying to crush the Bengalis.&#8217; So I used to think that Ayub Khan&#8217;s trying to crush us as well,&#8221; says Aquila.
But this sense of oneness with her Bengali compatriots was about to change. In 1970, Aquila applied for admission at Dhaka University. Given an option between Urdu and Bengali as a vernacular subject in Intermediate, she had opted to learn Urdu since Bengali was already such an essential part of her life. Placed on the Honours list, Aquila should have been a shoo-in for admission. But to her dismay, her name didn&#8217;t show up on the list. When the family tried to find out what went wrong, they were told that since Aquila had opted to take Urdu, &#8220;she couldn&#8217;t be from here&#8221;. The problem was resolved when her father got an affidavit saying she was indeed born in East Pakistan, but a line had been crossed. &#8220;Everything was smoothed over but we began to feel that we were being singled out,&#8221; she says.
Still, at the time of the 1970 elections, Aquila&#8217;s family voted for the Awami League. The results of that election, of course, changed the course of history. Sheikh Mujeeb&#8217;s Awami League won a sweeping victory. Meanwhile Bhutto, who had won a majority in West Pakistan, began to delay the formation of the National Assembly with the support of the West Pakistani establishment. Jubilance turned into suspicion in the Eastern wing, finally leading to a mass uprising.
On March 1, 1971, Yahya Khan announced the postponement of the assembly session. Two days later, Aquila witnessed the strange spectacle of the flag of Bangladesh being raised in her university. She also saw armed young men on the streets &#8212; Bengali civilians who now comprised the Mukti Bahini, the resistance force against West Pakistan. Meanwhile, on March 25, the Pakistan Army conducted a crackdown on Aquila&#8217;s university. She remembers seeing the orange flames rising up late in the night, even though her house was 10 km away. &#8220;It was as if an enemy invasion was taking place,&#8221; she recalls. &#8220;A full-blown military assault with tanks, machine guns, grenades.&#8221;
The university had been closed down when the curfew was imposed and the students&#8217; hostels and teachers&#8217; accommodations were sparsely occupied. Knowing this, Aquila was shocked to hear claims that 10,000 people had been killed in the operation. A week later, when she went to university, she found out that at least four to five people she had known were slain. The list put up in the university had 149 names in all. &#8220;An army assault had taken place &#8212; this much is true. But 10,000 people were not killed &#8212; 10,000 is a huge figure. The myth starts from there. There must have been about 200-250 dead in all, from my estimation.&#8221;
In the mayhem that lasted from March 25 to April 10, when the Pakistan Army took control, a large number of Urdu speakers were also massacred by the Mukti Bahini. This is when it began to dawn on Aquila&#8217;s family that they were not safe in the land they called home. &#8220;Nobody was going to ask me who I voted for, it was just enough that I was Urdu-speaking,&#8221; she recalls.
The Biharis had become symbols of West Pakistan&#8217;s dominance and were attacked in retaliation to the army&#8217;s suppression. It was not just Urdu speakers who were in danger, says Aquila. &#8220;Bihari was a loose term used for people who came from Uttar Pradesh, Poona, Maharshtra, for Punjabis, Pathans. Every non-Bengali was a Bihari.&#8221;
Despite the killings and hatred, Aquila&#8217;s family continued to identify with the Bengali cause. &#8220;We hated the army for what it had done. You don&#8217;t do this to your own people. They&#8217;re not the enemy.&#8221;
When Dhaka fell into the hands of the rebels on December 16, 1971, Aquila&#8217;s family assumed that they&#8217;d be presented a choice much like they&#8217;d been given in 1947: to live in Bangladesh or to go to what was left of Pakistan. But that illusion was quickly dispelled. Non-Bengalis were attacked, branded collaborators, and shot, bludgeoned and bayoneted to death. The Indian troops had been protecting non-Bengalis during the conflict, but as they withdrew, the pogrom began in earnest.
Aquila&#8217;s family was forced out of their home on February 4. &#8220;That was the day that we lost everything &#8230; we didn&#8217;t even have a country. We were taken on a bus through the same route that I used every day to go to university but it was strange because I didn&#8217;t belong anymore. At that time I didn&#8217;t feel so much pain because my mind sort of shut down.&#8221;
Aquila, her mother and her sister were taken to a camp by steamer, while her father and brother were put in jail. At the refugee camp they were given burnt khichri to eat and didn&#8217;t even know where the men were. &#8220;The camp organisers would point to us and tell western reporters that we were women who had been raped by the Pakistan Army.&#8221;
It was months before Aquila&#8217;s family was able to leave the camp and make it back safely to Pakistan &#8212; and then only because they had friends in high places. But once they made it to Pakistan, Aquila found that the press wasn&#8217;t necessarily interested in knowing about their plight. &#8220;I actually contacted Dawn to write about this and they did not even want to talk about it. They only wanted to talk about what the Pakistan Army had done. They weren&#8217;t even willing to examine the role of the PPP in all of this.&#8221;
When the family landed in Karachi, Aquila&#8217;s mother had Rs10 in her purse. Since her father was a civil servant, they were able to re-establish themselves, but even today Orangi Town in Karachi is filled with Bihari survivors who weren&#8217;t able to rehabilitate as quickly. In fact, the very title &#8216;Bihari&#8217; is used to discriminate against these people. &#8220;Why are those who came from East Punjab called Pakistanis while we are known as &#8216;Biharis&#8217;?&#8221; she asks.
Finally, in 2008, Aquila sat down to write the other side of the story. Not the story of the winning side, but of those who suffered and were abandoned. &#8220;There have been lies after lies after lies as far as treatment of Biharis is concerned. I think the record should be put straight.&#8221;
The result is Of Martyrs and Marigolds, due to be published in February. &#8220;I thought it should be a novel because fiction is able to take care of the complexities of conflict, the shades of grey that history does not take into account.&#8221;
Writing the book proved to be an unexpectedly painful process. &#8220;They say that when you write, it brings closure, but it actually made it worse. There were so many things that I&#8217;d forgotten which came back to me when I started writing. You start thinking: this really happened to me and that&#8217;s a pretty strange feeling,&#8221; says the writer.
Despite all the years, and all the pain, it seems Aquila still has a soft spot for her lost homeland.
&#8220;I&#8217;m very sympathetic to the Bengali cause, she says. &#8220;They deserved to get Bangladesh for what (West) Pakistan used to do to them. It&#8217;s not what one does to one&#8217;s own countrymen &#8212; you have to give political power to the majority in a democracy.&#8221;
There are no heroes in Aquila&#8217;s life story. While the Mukti Bahini were to blame for the massacre of her fellow Biharis, she also heaps blame on the army and West Pakistani establishment. &#8220;The Punjabi bureaucracy used to call them &#8216;bhookay Bengali&#8217;, ridiculing them for being short and dark,&#8221; she says.
Meanwhile, it is the Bihari population which has borne the fallout of the conflict. Many Biharis are stranded in refugee camps to this day. &#8220;These are 2nd generation, 3rd generation refugees,&#8221; says Aquila. &#8220;They are stateless &#8230; we paid the price for supporting Pakistan.&#8221;
Published in The Express Tribune, Sunday Magazine, February 26th, 2012.

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## Joe Shearer

Armstrong said:


> A little late but still an interesting read !
> 
> The Other side of Bengali was a Bihari.&#8221;
> Despite the killings and hatred, Aquila&#8217;s family continued to identify with the Bengali cause. &#8220;We hated the army for what it had done. You don&#8217;t do this to your own people. They&#8217;re not the enemy.&#8221;
> When Dhaka fell into the hands of the rebels on December 16, 1971, Aquila&#8217;s family assumed that they&#8217;d be presented a choice much like they&#8217;d been given in 1947: to live in Bangladesh or to go to what was left of Pakistan. But that illusion was quickly dispelled. Non-Bengalis were attacked, branded collaborators, and shot, bludgeoned and bayoneted to death. The Indian troops had been protecting non-Bengalis during the conflict, but as they withdrew, the pogrom began in earnest.
> Aquila&#8217;s family was forced out of their home on February 4. &#8220;That was the day that we lost everything &#8230; we didn&#8217;t even have a country. We were taken on a bus through the same route that I used every day to go to university but it was strange because I didn&#8217;t belong anymore. At that time I didn&#8217;t feel so much pain because my mind sort of shut down.&#8221;
> Aquila, her mother and her sister were taken to a camp by steamer, while her father and brother were put in jail. At the refugee camp they were given burnt khichri to eat and didn&#8217;t even know where the men were. &#8220;The camp organisers would point to us and tell western reporters that we were women who had been raped by the Pakistan Army.&#8221;
> It was months before Aquila&#8217;s family was able to leave the camp and make it back safely to Pakistan &#8212; and then only because they had friends in high places. But once they made it to Pakistan, Aquila found that the press wasn&#8217;t necessarily interested in knowing about their plight. &#8220;I actually contacted Dawn to write about this and they did not even want to talk about it. They only wanted to talk about what the Pakistan Army had done. They weren&#8217;t even willing to examine the role of the PPP in all of this.&#8221;
> When the family landed in Karachi, Aquila&#8217;s mother had Rs10 in her purse. Since her father was a civil servant, they were able to re-establish themselves, but even today Orangi Town in Karachi is filled with Bihari survivors who weren&#8217;t able to rehabilitate as quickly. In fact, the very title &#8216;Bihari&#8217; is used to discriminate against these people. &#8220;Why are those who came from East Punjab called Pakistanis while we are known as &#8216;Biharis&#8217;?&#8221; she asks.
> Finally, in 2008, Aquila sat down to write the other side of the story. Not the story of the winning side, but of those who suffered and were abandoned. &#8220;There have been lies after lies after lies as far as treatment of Biharis is concerned. I think the record should be put straight.&#8221;
> The result is Of Martyrs and Marigolds, due to be published in February. &#8220;I thought it should be a novel because fiction is able to take care of the complexities of conflict, the shades of grey that history does not take into account.&#8221;
> Writing the book proved to be an unexpectedly painful process. &#8220;They say that when you write, it brings closure, but it actually made it worse. There were so many things that I&#8217;d forgotten which came back to me when I started writing. You start thinking: this really happened to me and that&#8217;s a pretty strange feeling,&#8221; says the writer.
> Despite all the years, and all the pain, it seems Aquila still has a soft spot for her lost homeland.
> &#8220;I&#8217;m very sympathetic to the Bengali cause, she says. &#8220;They deserved to get Bangladesh for what (West) Pakistan used to do to them. It&#8217;s not what one does to one&#8217;s own countrymen &#8212; you have to give political power to the majority in a democracy.&#8221;
> There are no heroes in Aquila&#8217;s life story. While the Mukti Bahini were to blame for the massacre of her fellow Biharis, she also heaps blame on the army and West Pakistani establishment. &#8220;The Punjabi bureaucracy used to call them &#8216;bhookay Bengali&#8217;, ridiculing them for being short and dark,&#8221; she says.
> Meanwhile, it is the Bihari population which has borne the fallout of the conflict. Many Biharis are stranded in refugee camps to this day. &#8220;These are 2nd generation, 3rd generation refugees,&#8221; says Aquila. &#8220;They are stateless &#8230; we paid the price for supporting Pakistan.&#8221;
> Published in The Express Tribune, Sunday Magazine, February 26th, 2012.




There are those who are not to be reconciled. They bitterly call themselves what they think the Pakistanis called them behind their backs - SDREs, Small Dark Rice Eater.

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## kobiraaz

Nice sharing Mr.Akmal. How do you explain following Statement of Zia ur Rahman?

'' in February and beginning of March we noticed abnormal movement of Baluch regiment! They were having implicit relation with local Biharis, Some pakistani soldiers and groups used to go out in civil dress to Bihari settlements! After that we used to get news of Bengali dead bodies being found here and there! I told my bengali colleagues to remain alert of the situation, we took decision to remain silent and watchful'

From his statement, it is obvious that Pakistan Army was trying to neutralize Awamileague by arming Biharis!

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## Joe Shearer

kobiraaz said:


> Nice sharing Mr.Akmal. How do you explain following Statement of Zia ur Rahman?
> 
> '' in February and beginning of March we noticed abnormal movement of Baluch regiment! They were having implicit relation with local Biharis, Some pakistani soldiers and groups used to go out in civil dress to Bihari settlements! After that we used to get news of Bengali dead bodies being found here and there! I told my bengali colleagues to remain alert of the situation, we took decision to remain silent and watchful'
> 
> From his statement, it is obvious that Pakistan Army was trying to neutralize Awamileague by arming Biharis!



Please consider that history is never done effectively by taking one point of view, or another, exclusively, but by gathering as much authentic information as possible, and then carefully sifting the evidence, all the time subjecting everything to peer review.

Gathering data is important. See how the perspective changes with EVERY input. History is never a fixed account, but must be reconsidered with every discovery of new facts and figures.

Your input about Zia urRahman was fascinating, most so because of the context of the discussion.

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## Md Akmal

kobiraaz said:


> Nice sharing Mr.Akmal. How do you explain following Statement of Zia ur Rahman?
> 
> '' in February and beginning of March we noticed abnormal movement of Baluch regiment! They were having implicit relation with local Biharis, Some pakistani soldiers and groups used to go out in civil dress to Bihari settlements! After that we used to get news of Bengali dead bodies being found here and there! I told my bengali colleagues to remain alert of the situation, we took decision to remain silent and watchful'
> 
> From his statement, it is obvious that Pakistan Army was trying to neutralize Awamileague by arming Biharis!



@ What Maj Zia said was absolutely correct. In Chittagong, Maj Zia was the Second in Comand of 8th East Bengal Regiment which was scheduled to move to West Pakistan. The advance party of 8 East Bengal Regiment had already moved. In those days there were lot of Biharis stationed in Sholoshahar, Halisharhar and in almost all industrial sector starting drom Fouzdarhat to short of Shita Kunda. There were many Beharis/non-Bengalis in Chandroghona Paper Mills, Kaptai Hydraolic Projects and also in Rangamati. Once most of the Bengalis aligned with AL so only loyal elements were these Biharis and non-Bengalis. Ofcourse there were many Bengalis also but which was not visible. 

@ The Pakistani Baluch was the only Regiment which was stationed at Chittagong Nuton Para Cantonment. The other regiment was the 8 East Bengal regiment. Besides there were few tanks which were kept for annual firing. So, it was natural that Pakistani troops will visit the Behari camps either in uniform or in civil dresses. I don't think that Pakistani Army provided them any arms to them but definitely they might send some forces with arms in civil dresses. Well if there was any arms kept reserve for the Mujahids and than these weapons were given to the Behahis and kept proper accounting what is the harm. You are taking that Maj Zia used to get news that Bengali bodies were found left and right. Question is how many, 2/3, 5/8, 10/15, my dear beloved friend once the Chittgong area came under Zia's jurisdiction 40/50 thousand Beharis were slaughtered just within 15 days. It can only be compared with holocast of Hitler. Pakistan govt knows it very well but they never never disclosed it till October 1971 that too within the Govt itself. Had Pakistan govt disclosed these killing in public our Bengali brothers and sister could hardly reached in Bangladesh save and sound from West Pakistan. Thanks to Pakistan Govt for this.

@ Just for your information before Maj Zia revolted he at once went to the Commanding Officer of 8 East Bengal(His CO) while he was taking his food with his families and killed all of them and fan out from the Cantonment.

@ Everything is permitted in war and love. How you define this action of Maj Zia ??????? By the way I am the blind supporter of Maj Zia.

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## kobiraaz

Zia was very professional, his loyalty to Pakistan as a military officer is unquestionable! He revolted only when death was inevitable for him! After revolting it was war! Bengalis had to vacate their head quarter. Before leaving they killed all the Pakistanis there. Similarly Pakistanis killed many Bangali soldiers and their family member in the cant that night!

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## Md Akmal

kobiraaz said:


> Zia was very professional, his loyalty to Pakistan as a military officer is unquestionable! He revolted only when death was inevitable for him! After revolting it was war! Bengalis had to vacate their head quarter. Before leaving they killed all the Pakistanis there. Similarly Pakistanis killed many Bangali soldiers and their family member in the cant that night!



@ Fully agreed with your solid agruments but I dis-agree that Pakistani army killed their families. If it was so why they did not killed the wife and children of Maj Zia knowing fully well that Maj Zia killed his Punjabi CO. There might be some lot rape inside the Cantonment among the Bengalee troops families but so far I know most of them were alive. All most all the East Bengal Regiment recruits were killed while dis-arming. Bengali members of 8 East Bengal regiments already left the Cantonment after revolting. 

@ But I know some incidents in Chittagong where our troops behaved in such a manner with the families of West Pakistani officers that cannot be expressed. These were even expressed by the Bengale captured officers.

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## Md Akmal

@ There were many atrocities committed by the Pakistani Army during the process of dis-arming the Bengal elements. In fact it was some sort of personal whims on which Pakistan Army acted. I know some incidents of Rangpur Cantonment but don not ask me whether I have seen with my own eyes or not.

@ Among all the East Pakistan Cantonments, the Brigade Commander here was little bit too much anti-Bengali. It was probably on 27/29 March 1971, the local Bengali people under the leadership of AL surrounded the Cantonment. At one stage they even entered the Cantt area and came across near the Brigade HQ. Pakistani Troops were ready for action. They warned the local people through the load speaker even in Bengali but still people were mad and came just in front of the ambush area. All Bengali officers/troops were brought there to see the show. Once all the people came at the point blank range LMG/MG opened fire and nearly 400 to 500 people died on the spot. Many got injured but all were than burned with gasoline that too by the Bengali troops and buried. Most of these Bengali troops later were killed, hardly any troops could escape. Only three officers were set free at the centre of Rangpur Town indirectly by the order of the CO of 29 Cavalry(Tank Regt).

@ After 28/29 March 1971 it was in this Cantonment where in the name of sending Bengali officers and troops to West Pakistan were brought together and killed in a systematic way at Kaunia (mid point) a railway cum road bridge on river Teesta while transporting them to Lalmonirhat airport(short of Kuch Bihar). It may be mentioned here that this airport was widely used by the Pakistan Army for re-enforcement as well as causality return. Once Rangpur and Saidpur Cantonments were encircled by the people and revoltee it was through this airport the quick reinforcement came by the C-130 American Transport Aircraft. It was a God blessing for Pakistan Army as well as local non-Bengali. I tell you if there was no existence of this airport than all the Pakistani elements were sure to be butchered. More so, Indian BSF and other Indian infiltrators were also very active in this Northern Sectors. Thanks to the American Soldiers who built this airport during the Second World War.

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## Md Akmal

@ So, today I feel like to write something about Zulfikar Ali Butto and Sk Mujibur and his 6(Six) Points.

@ Zulfikar Ali Butto while still young was picked up General Khan in his Cabinet and in early sixties he became a full flagged Foerign Minister. Butto was pro-Chinese and believer of Islamic Socialism. Soon under his leadership Pakistan came closer with China. After the defeat of India by China in 1962, Butto became very active even some times he was behaving like a Defense Minister. Under his direct initiative the "Operation Gibralter" was planned and executed but failed. While planning for this operation the security of East Pakistan was ignored.

@ During the 1965 war he as a Foreign Minster was still adamant to continue the fight with India. But Ayub as a experience soldier quickly realized the grave danger of continuing the war. He at once requested to USA to stopped the war but USA said he should approach to USSR. Soon under the mediation of USSR the war was ended and the "Treaty of Taskhand" was signed. After signing the treaty Butto was forced to resign. Soon Butto formed a new political Party named PPP. All the young lots joined in his party and it became popular. Butto was a very charismatic leader. I remember once I went to "Liaquit Bag" at Rawalpindi with my father to listen his address. O it was a funny. Every time he became annoyed while addressing he just open is "Achcan"(small coat) and throws among audiences. Of course during the process there were somebody to collect his coat. He used to talk nicely with labour class and very frequently used to have food with the day labour. In this way he became popular among the labour class. He was out and out anti-India and could express among the people very nicely.

@ Once "Agartola Case" against Sk Mujib was going at peak, he came to East Pakistan to support Sk Mujib. In this way the case became very light. Butto knew it since the Bengalis were majority so need the support of them to over throw Ayub. He cunningly approaching the people of Pakistan that the case against Mujib was false. Once Ayub called a " Round Table " among the politician at Lahore in 1968 he did not joined. This round table was the last initiative taken by Ayub. Once it was failure Ayub was completely broken. In fact it was due to non-cooperation of Butto that this conference was failure. (Sorry, to be continued)

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## monitor

Md Akmal said:


> @ How to answer these historical questions ? Here now in this forum there are 4 types of people. One is Indian, 2nd is Pakistani, 3rd is true Bangladeshi and another is Indian motivated Bengalese like the AL who are still jumping without knowing the ground reality. OK, let me write the actual truth what I saw, what I heard, what I read and what I opine. It might heart many but these are facts. All these truth I lately realize. I tell you Indian and our motivated propaganda was so strong that being a Bengalee it was difficult to come out from this circle and find the truth. all these things were carried out in such a manner that it was justified on falsehood.
> 
> @ Look India is a big country. There were many many Bengali Hindu refugees who migrated to India. Many went at their own will. Many were forcefully evicted. Most of these Bengali refugees were not intentionally allowed to be re-rehabilitated in India. So, these people had a dream to return in Bengal this way or that way but definitely not within Pakistan. Most of these Bengali were literate. Basically this force was active from the very beginning to dismember Pakistan. Starting from Language movement up to to the final liberation war. But once the war started hardly any people from this group joined. All those people who struggled for Pakistan by now become old. Rather I will say were made isolated from the society by the propaganda of AL and India. The " Two Nation Theory" was not a fun in the Eastern Wing. The people believed it from their heart and implemented it. But once the language movement started it completely changed the scenario. Definitely to some extend Pakistani Central Govt was also responsible. The demands of language movement were well accepted by the Pakistani govt but dis-integration of Pakistan started.
> 
> @ In 1947, nearly 23/25 lac of Biharis came to the then East Pakistan. Besides, around 20/25 lac Bengali Muslims also came from India. Roughly 50 lac of Bengali Hindus migrated to India. Pakistan gave too much importance to these Biharis. Many refugee camps were made through out East Pakistan. Beharis were employed in the Railways and Communication centers. Once the industrialist from India (mainly 22 families) came and invested their money in East Pakistan like Adamjee Jute Mills and other large scale industries soon the non-Bengalis were quickly absorbed in these areas. The Bengali were also taken but since they had no experiences so they remained behind. Moreso, these non-Bengali industrialist had a soft corner for all these non-Bengalis. Soon Beharis were spread throughout the industrial belts. As such even during Pakistan times many a times a riot was broke out between Bengali and Behari in Narranganj where both parties were killed.
> 
> @ Once the movement started in East Pakistan against Central Govt these non-Bengalis were feeling in secured. In fact looting and intimidation of non-Bengali started from 01 March 1971. It was intensified after 7 March 1971 after Mujib's address. And killing started in the remote areas after 10 March 1971. By 26 March 1971 it went on free style. People were killed like dogs. It was a complete ethnic cleansing. Tell me where the people were not killed. People had the believe that if we can killed them our freedom is guaranteed. These all people were pro-Pakistani so kill them. All people in the EPR (East Pakistan Rifle), civil administrations, industries, educational institutions were brutally killed. What surprised us in many border belt many Indian volunteers came killed them along with us. In many places in order to killed them India supplied arms/ammo. How many killed that is a big question ? As per my assessment the figure is 3/4 lac.
> 
> @ How many Pakistani Troops killed Bengalis I will not not go in detail but definitely while dis-arming Bengalee troops many were killed. Roughly 1000 killed in Chittagong Cantonment, 1000 in Comilla Cantonment, 500 in Rangpur Cantonment, 300 in Saidpur Cantonment, 800 hundred in Jessore Cantonment. I don not know about the killing at Dacca Cantonment, probably not. All these were uniformed person. Killing mission was carried out at Peelkhana and Rajarbag Police lines on 25/26 March 1971.



So one thing is clear from your and from the writing from sormila boss famous or notorious ''death reckoning'' It was not Pakistan army who started killing spree but the Banglalee mob started the chaotic situation in east Pakistan so army needed to do some thing . so for fourty years we have been hearing we were ''innocent'' ''unarmed civilian'' sleeping and chewing betel leaf and suddenly the army started to killed people . actually they had started their action to like any Army would do but may be the atrocity was too much.

and off topic question to known person very recently BAL lear claim to bring to justice those army officer who were siding with Pakistan army . do nay one knows who and how many bagalae army officer sided with Pakistan army ?

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## Armstrong

Okay now my two cents ! I've had the opportunity of having a correspondence with a Pakistani soldier who fought in the '71 war and was taken a POW along with Niazi's men ! I corroborated many of the integral facts that the gentleman mentioned by asking around the few people I know from the '71 War; including my paternal uncle who was a major in the army at that time on the Western Front and my Grandfather, who was there in Dhaka as part of the MES, a few months before the eventual fall. And so I have no reason to believe that he isn't what he says he is ! Thank You, Colonel Nazir Ahmed for sharing this with us ! Unfortunately I forgot about your unit name. 

So here are the Colonel's reflections : 


Some reflections on the whole tragic drama could be summarised as:

	Bengal was a different country in all respects. Its language, culture and the distance, over one thousand miles of hostile Indias territory separating it from West Pakistan were important factors in creation of Bangladesh.

	The people of Bengal had gone more than half way to remain part of united Pakistan. In the first constitution adopted in 1956 after a delay of about nine years after creation of Pakistan, Bengalis accepted the arrangement of parity despite being more in numbers. That constitution should have provided workable arrangements between the two wings so that the country remained united while both wings could enjoy considerable freedom in internal matters and distribution of resources.

	Although 1970 Elections gave majority to Sheikh Mujibs Awami League, he could not form the government. Mr Z A Bhutto who had won more seats in Punjab and Sindh stopped his party members and threatened others not to attend the National Assembly Session called at Dacca on 3 March 71, precipitating the crisis. 

	Military action was no solution to the political problem. The military commander in East Pakistan, General Sahibzada Yaqoob Khan refused to undertake the operation. He was removed and replaced by Tikka Khan who was willing to act on orders.

	In East Pakistan there was one infantry division of Pakistan Army comprising about fifteen thousand persons including about three and half thousand Bengalis. Since the start of non cooperation movement in 1st week of Feb 71, these troops scattered all over East Pakistan in different cantonments had been confined to their locations. Their supplies had been cut off and they were virtually prisoners living in great tension and hardship. When the military action was ordered, the troops from Dacca Cantonment started with indiscriminate firing by tanks in the city of Dacca on the night of 24/25 March 1971. In two days over one thousand people were killed in the city. The city was almost deserted when additional troops started arriving from West Pakistan.

	Two infantry divisions less their heavier elements like the armour regiments and medium artillery were flown from West Pakistan to undertake the operations. The initial phase of operation starting from Dacca to reach the borders on different routes was completed by fourth week of April 71. In this all the columns starting from Dacca were opposed at two different positions. This pattern suggested Indian involvement in planning and presence of some of their men physically supporting the rebels.

	As the operations by freshly arrived troops commenced from Dacca to reach out to the borders and link up with isolated troops, the pace of movement was severely restricted due to blowing up of bridges on the routes. During this period of about two months, atrocities and massacre of non Bengali population was committed by the rebels at massive scale in different parts of the country. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed and their women raped. 

	As the troops reached the borders after clearing opposition en route, the period from end of April up to June passed without much opposition except that a few areas could not be cleared because of their peculiar locations. The focus of the Army during this period was to restore normalcy by giving confidence to the population to resume normal activity.

	After the month of June, the rebels, organised by the Indians into a force called Mukti Bahini started their sabotage activity, planting mines on the tracks, blowing up small bridges/culverts. Also by this time the Indians started shelling our posts in the border areas.

	Activities of the rebels did not escalate to a scale which could disrupt normal activity. Main reason was that the population was not supportive of them. They had seen that the Army was not interfering in their routine affairs and was striving hard to restore peaceful living conditions. 

	The people of East Pakistan had voted for Awami League who had promised to get maximum autonomy based on a six point formula. The people had not voted for breakup of Pakistan. While a small percentage of the population was actively engaged in fighting the Pakistan Army, much larger number of Bengali young men was fighting as volunteers alongside the Army against the rebels.

	Had it not been for the Indian invasion, the rebel activity had been brought under control creating conditions for a favourable political solution. Unfortunately the Pakistan government of General Yahya Khan was in state of paralysis and had no capacity to solve the problem. People around him like Z A Bhutto who saw no chance of coming to power in united Pakistan was working for break up to secure his chance of ruling remaining Pakistan.

	The rumours or the langar gup since the month of Aug that GHQ considered the three Divisions in East Pakistan as written off, was taken a joke. But this proved right. On declaration of war by Pakistan on 3rd Dec, news was deliberately spread through the command channel that Pakistan Army had captured Jammu. This joyful news proved wrong resulting in greater disappointment. Such cheap tactics by callous rulers caused unnecessary frustration. 

	The Indian invasion came from three directions i.e. west, east and north. From the south, the sea was dominated by the Indians and the ports of East Pakistan effectively blocked.

	General A A K Niazi, the commander of troops in East Pakistan acted on the orders of GHQ to defend every inch of the land, a most unrealistic directive. He failed to deploy available troops to counter the threat of invasion which had become very clear when the Indian troops had completed their concentrations on the three sides of the borders by Oct 71.

	Disobeying orders is a dilemma at the time of crises. In hindsight it looks simple but at the moment of taking such decision it becomes very difficult. I have two examples which will elaborate the point. Chittagong was to be occupied as fortress by the troops deployed in the sector in counter insurgency role after withdrawal from the border areas. Special Service Group (SSG) troops deployed on the borders with Burma had a chance to cross over to Burma when they were ordered to come back to Chittagong for fortress defence. These highly trained troops are not meant to be used for static defences. In our POW Camp No 25 located at Ramgarh near Ranchi in then Behar province, Major Saeed (later DIG Police) a famous commando would blame his company commander Major Iqbal (later Brig) for the ordeal of becoming a prisoner of war. Major Iqbal had stopped him from crossing over to Burma when he had already boarded the speed boat at Kaptai lake to cross over. Major Iqbal could not disobey the orders from Brig Atta Muhammad at Chittagong. Conversely Major Asif Ali Rizvi of my unit posted to the EPCAF at Coxs Bazar on the border with Burma crossed over to Burma when he felt isolated from Chittagong. He reached Pakistan and was awarded with the gallantry award of Tamgha e Jurrat (TJ). However, when the POWs came back, Brig Atta made a point that the officer was prosecuted for disobeying orders to join force at Chittagong. Major Rizvi was deprived of the award and punished.

	This however does not justify that a man of Generl Niazis rank should not have taken decisions according to the situation confronting him, particularly when nobody at GHQ was listening to him and his problems.

	The Indian invasion came through our deployment for the counter insurgency operations, our troops scattered in penny packets all over East Pakistan. Like the water flows through terrain avoiding high ground, the Indians with deliberate and cautious movement reached undefended Dacca in less than two weeks after declaration of war on 3 Dec 71.

	The Indians had complete mastery of the skies which facilitated their move to a large extent

	The Indian mostly avoided fighting to clear defensive positions wherever they came across, by passing such positions to continue the move. Wherever they tried to fight through the defensive positions they suffered heavy casualties and failed to overcome the resistance. I have given example of 34 Punjab positions south of Birganj on Thakurgaon  Dinajpur road and that of fighting in the area of 205 Bde in Hilli sector which I know of and was a participant. 

	Had the positions of available troops in East Pakistan been adjusted to counter the Indian invasion, Dacca could have been strongly defended by taking up positions north of it between the two rivers. Besides this the Chittagong area could also be effectively defended because of it layout, the long border with Burma and the mountainous tribal area inhabited by friendly tribes. In this scenario the extended line of communications of the Indians reaching to contact our defences could be severely disrupted by the Bengali young men fighting on our side. Such situation would have resulted in different outcome.

	Chittagong area could still be part of Pakistan had the bulk of non Bengali population, now languishing in slums of Dacca for so long, was shifted to the area in the months of September to November 71. With the friendly tribes and the common Bengali man not supporting break up of Pakistan this was a viable option even if rest of East Pakistan opted to become Bangladesh. But alas the men at the helm of affairs lacked that vision.

	The first message received by the units was that of ceasefire. Later when the troops concentrated at different locations we had to hand over weapons.

	The Indians shifted the POWs, starting 01 Jan 72 to different cantonments in their three provinces, i.e. Bihar, Uttar Pardesh and Madhia Pardesh. They took two weeks to complete the process. They were very polite in their dealings till we reached their camps. They told us that we were in transit and were soon to be sent to Pakistan. This seemed logical as the war had ended.

	Total strength of the prisoners was not more than about forty thousand. In this about thirty to thirty two thousand were from the Pakistan Army, about five to six thousand from the civil armed forces i.e. three Scouts and four Rangers Wings, two Mujahid battalions, some men from the Police and very few civilians. 

	The figure of ninety three thousand was concocted to defame the Army. The prisoners were kept in India till Mr Bhutto could consolidate his hold on the New Pakistan. The repatriation was spread over about eight months making sure that the personnel of those units who served in East Pakistan could not get together.

	Repatriation of prisoners was trumpeted to be a very big achievement of Mr Bhutto to deceive people. But those of us affected knew and some thought of doing something to get him. They were apprehended and punished through a court martial conducted by Major General Zia ul Haq (later President). After Bhutto was hanged by Zia, reportedly one of those punished told Zia that this was what they wanted earlier and that Zia had realised it late.

	Breakup of Pakistan, the largest Muslim country of the world which enjoyed great prestige in the comity of nations is tragic story. It was done by men blinded by lust for power. Remaining Pakistan continues to be afflicted by even worse rulers.

Cheers !

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## Md Akmal

@ So, I was talking about Butto. Butto was a good public orator like Mujib. Once the Legal Frame Work was declared all political parties accepted and from 01 of January 1970, free and fair election campaign started. During this time I was at Rawalpindi. I saw in each areas of Rawalpindi there is a office of Awami Leaque. I was surprized so see who they are ? Are they Bengali or West Pakistani. Soon I come to know that these are all West Pakistani. I used to go and seat in their office have tea and come back. I was asking a question to my father, is there is any possibility of winning any seats from Rawalpindi of AL. They said no. Why not ? we had lot of Bengal voters in Rawalpindi. And I tell you all most had voted for AL. But on the election day I found not a single one. I those days I too had a fascination for Butto. This was the 1st round of election through out Pakistan. I think it was held on 7 December 1970. The second for the provincial election was held on 14 December 1970 and I landed at Dacca on 12 December 1970. Once AL won the election it said that the future constitution of Pakistan would be on the basis of 6 Point Programme. Now, Butto started giving his own theory. He thought that if he supports or joins the Parliament session where there is a clear majority of AL so there is no possibility of coming to power. Even there is no possibility in future also. So he started his conspiracy by making secret talks and meeting with military Generals and Civil Servants.

@ Now, about Sk Mujib. He was the student of Islamia Collage at Calcutta and was involved with Muslim Leaque student politics. Basically he was muscleman of Shurwardy group. In those days there two groups in Muslim Leaque, one was Khaja Nazimuddin and another is Shurwardy group. Shurwardy was the existence Chief Minister of Calcutta. During those days he secretly mate with Chittro Ranjon Das regarding not to partition Bengal. They wanted to make a separate indepenent Socialist United Bengal with the greater Dominion of India. This was not liked by Nazimuddin group. Once it was leaked out Congress vehemently opposed it. Muslim Leaque also initially opposed it but later on supported it provided it remains real independent.
After this crisis there was a election within Bengal Congress where it was decided that Bengal to be partitioned on line of communal basis. (To be continued)

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## Abu Zolfiqar

Bhutto was an overly-emotional socialist with a populist agenda and was quite a loudmouth with a hot temper


Mujib was a sneaky opportunist who deceived and fooled many....used emotions and propaganda to justify the murder and pillaging of Urdu speaking population in erstwhile E-Pakistan (including biharis) - a point few ''moral police'' seldom bring up

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## kobiraaz

** after Election Bhutto requested second powerful place in the ministry from MUJIB. when Mujib refused the proposal Bhutto went to Yahya!

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## Armstrong

Some more thoughts by Colonel (R) Nazir Ahmed on 'debunking the 90,000 POW figure' ! 

So here goes : 


Order of Battle

Location of Pakistani units in East Pakistan on 03 December 1971.

Pakistan army started to work on a plan of defence against a possible Indian attack from July 1971. At that time, 3 infantry divisions held responsibility for the province: the 9th (CO: Maj. Gen.M H Ansari, HQ Jessore) looking after the area south of the Padma River, the 16th (Maj. Gen. Nazar Hussain Shah, HQ Natore) responsible for the area north of Padma and west of Jamuna rivers and the 14th (CO: Maj. Gen.Abdul Majid Qazi, HQ: Dhaka) looking after the rest of the province. The original plan was based on a series of exercises, known as Titumeer, which were held during 1970&#8211;1971. It was revised several times and approved in October 1971. General Niazi had created 4 ad hoc infantry brigades and 2 ad hoc infantry divisions regrouping the available troops before final order of battle was devised. 

The final order of battle prior to December 3, 1971 was: 

*Eastern Command Headquarters Dhaka*
- GOC: Lt. General A. A. K. Niazi
- COS: Brigadier Baqir Siddiqi
- Commander Artillery: Brig. S. S. A. Kashim
- Commander Armor: Col. Bakhtier
- Commander Engineers: Brig. Iqbal Sharif
- Commander Signals: Brig. Areef Reza
- Commander Medical Service: Brig. Fahim Ahmed Khan
- Advisor: Maj. Gen. Rao Farman Ali

Units under HQ Control:

- 6th Engineer Regiment
- 10th Engineer Regiment &#8211; detached to various locations
- 11th Engineer Regiment - Lt. Col Sarwar
- 43rd Light Ack Ack &#8211; Lt. Col. Mohammad Afzal
- 19th Signal Regiment
- 3rd Commando Battalion (less elements)
- Army Aviation Squadron #4 &#8211; Lt. Col. Liakat Bokhari

*Dhaka Defense Scheme (adhoc) :*

- Brig. Kashim (North): Dhaka Cantonment & Tongi atea
- Brig. Mansoor (East): Munshiganj & Narayanganj
- Brig. Bashir: Dhaka city proper

EPCAF HQ and Sector units:
- Police and Razakars

Pakistan Air Force CO: Air Commodore Enamul Huq

- No. 14 Squadron &#8216;&#8217;Tail-choppers&#8217;&#8217;: 20 F-86 Sabers
- Training unit: 3 T-33

Pakistan Navy CO: Rear Admiral Mohammad Sharif
- 4 Gunboats: PNS Rajshahi, Comilla, Sylhet and Jessore
- 1 Patrol Boat: PNS Balaghat
- 17 armed boats
- Naval Marines &#8211; Captain Zamir

*36 Ad hoc Infantry Division:*
CO: Maj. Gen. M. Jamshed Khan HQ Dhaka
Area of Operation: Dhaka, Tangail and Mymensingh districts

- 93 Infantry Brigade: Brig Abdul Qadir Khan HQ Mymensingh
- 83 Independent. Mortar battery
- 31 Baluch &#8211; Jamalpur
- 33 Punjab &#8211; Mymensingh
- 71 Wing WPR &#8211; Kishorganj
- 70 Wing WPR &#8211; Bijaipur

*14 Infantry Division*
OC: Major General Abdul Majid Qazi, HQ Brahmanbaria
Area of Operation: Sylhet and Northern Comilla districts

- 31st Field Artillery &#8211; Ashuganj &#8211; Brahmanbaria - Shamshernagar
- 88 Independent Mortar Battery &#8211; Sylhet
- 171 Independent Mortar Battery &#8211; Comilla

*Sylhet*

202 Adhoc Brigade: Brig. Salimullah
- 31 Punjab &#8211; Sylhet
- 91 Mujahid Battalion &#8211; Sunamganj
- 12 Azad Kashmir &#8211; Sylhet

Also: Wings of Tochi, Thal and Khyber scouts

*Maulavibazar*

- 313 infantry Brigade: Brig. Iftikar Rana
- 22 Baluch &#8211; Kalaura
- 30 Frontier Force &#8211; Shahshernagar
- 91 Mujahid (minus elements) & Tochi Scouts &#8211; Sherpur

*Brahmanbaria*

- 27th Infantry Brigade: Brig. Saadullah
- 33rd Baluch &#8211; Kasba
- 12th Frontier Force &#8211; Akhaura
- 2 Troops of M-24 Chaffee &#8211; Akhaura
- 1x Anti Tank Platoon 34 Punjab (R&S)

*39 Ad hoc Division*
OC: Maj. Gen. Rahim Khan &#8211; Chandpur
Area of Operation: Comilla, Feni and Northern Chittagong

- 53rd Field Artillery &#8211; Comilla

*Comilla*

- 117th Infantry Brigade: Brig. Sheikh M.H. Atif
- 30 Punjab &#8211; Saldanadi
- 25th Frontier Force &#8211; Mainamati
- 12th Azad Kashmir &#8211; Comilla


*Feni*

- 53rde Infantry Brigade: Brig. Aslam Niazi
- 15th Baluch &#8211; Belonia
- 39th Baluch &#8211; Laksham
- 23rd Punjab &#8211; Mean Bazar
- 21 Azad Kashmir - Laksham

*Ramgarh*

- 91st Ad hoc Brigade: Brig. Mian Taskeenuddin HQ Chittagong
- 24th Frontier Force &#8211; Ramgarh
- Chakma and Mizo troops
- EPCAF 11th and 14th Wings

*Chittagong*

- 97th Independent Brigade: Brig. Ata Mohd. Khan Malik
- 48th Baluch &#8211; Chittagong
- 2 SSg Commando - Rangamati
- 60th Wing Rangers &#8211; Ramgarh
- 61st Wing Rangers &#8211; Cox&#8217;s Bazar
- Naval Contingent
- 46th Light Ack Ack Battery

*16th Infantry Division*
CO: Maj. Gen. Nazar Hussain Shah HQ: Bogra, then Natore
Area of Operation: Rajshahi, Bogra, Dinajpur, Rangpur and Pabna
Districts

- 29th Cavalry less elements &#8211;Rangpur
- 48th Field Regiment &#8211; Thakurgaon
- 80th Field Regiment &#8211; Hili
- 117th Mortar Battery &#8211; Kurigram

*Saidpur*

- 23rd Infantry Brigade: Brig. Iqbal Shaffi
- 25th Punjab &#8211; Lalmanirhut
- 26th Frontier Force &#8211; Dinajpur
- 48th Punjab &#8211; Nilphamari
- 8 Punjab &#8211; Rangpur
- 34th Punjab &#8211; (less one company and one anti tank platoon) Thakurgaon
- 86th Mujahid &#8211; Gaibandha

*Bogra*

- 205th Infantry Brigade: Brig. Tajammul Hussain Malik HQ: Bogra (Tac HQ &#8211; Chatni in 4 FF area)
- 32nd Baluch &#8211; Ghoraghat
- 4 Frontier Force &#8211; Hilli
- 8 Baluch &#8211; Jaipurhut
- C Coy 34 Punjab (R&S) at Hilli/Panjbibi

*Nator*

- 34th Infantry Brigade: Brig. Mir Abdul Nayeem
- 32nd Punjab &#8211; Nawabganj
- 13th Frontier Force &#8211; Sapahar

*Rajshahi*

- Rajshahi Ad hoc Brigade[8]

*9th Infantry Division*
CO: Maj. Gen HM. H. Ansari HQ Jessore
Area of Operation: Khulna, Jessore, Kushtia, Faridpur, Barisal and Patuakhali districts

- 3rd Ind. Armored Squadron &#8211; Jessore
- 55th Field Artillery &#8211; Satkhira and Chaugacha
- 49th Field Artillery &#8211; Chuadanga
- 211th Independent Mortar Battery &#8211; Chaugacha

*Jhenida*

- 57th Infantry Brigade: Brig. Manzoor H Atif
- 18th Punjab &#8211; Darshana
- 50th Punjab &#8211; Jhenida
- 29th Baluch &#8211; Kushtia
- Squadron 29th Cavalry &#8211; Kushtia

*Jessore*

- 107th Infantry Brigade: Brig. M Hayat Khan
- 22nd Frontier Force &#8211; Benapole
- 38th Frontier Force &#8211; Afra
- 6th Punjab &#8211; Jessore
- 21st Punjab &#8211; Satkhira
- 15th Frontier Force &#8211; Jessore
- 12th Punjab &#8211; Jessore

*Khulna*

- 314th Ad Hoc Brigade: Col. Fazle Hamid

*Total number of units of the different arms/services*

Above details have been taken from the Wikipedia and summarised below by Colonel (retd) Nazir Ahmed, OC &#8216;C&#8217; company 34 Punjab (R&S) during the counter insurgency operations and the 1971 war in erstwhile East Pakistan.

*Armour Regiment* - 1 

*Infantry Battalions* -34 (31xregular Infantry battalions and three R&S battalions)

*Artillery*
- Field regiments &#8211; 6
- Mortar Batteries &#8211; 7
- Engineer Battalions &#8211; 3

*Signal battalions* &#8211; 1

*Para military forces*

East Pakistan Civil Armed Force (EPCAF) raised in place of East Pakistan Rifles (EPR) &#8211; Approximately 12000 local persons. These people being locals, joined their families as the war ended. They did not become prisoners of war.

Scouts &#8211; 3 Wings
Rangers &#8211; 4 Wings
Mujahids &#8211; 2 battalions (mainly local persons)
Navy &#8211; 4xGunboats, 17x armed boats and some marine personnel
PAF &#8211; One Squadern

*The Number of Prisoners of War*

The much exaggerated figure of 93000 prisoners of war is absolutely false. Actual number of prisoners could not be more than forty thousands; a likely figure of 39000 inverted to 93000 which have stuck. Considering the authorised strength of the units which is never complete and about 15% attrition, the approximate breakdown is:

*Army* &#8211; 32000 (authorised strength of a regular infantry battalion was 798 and that of R&S battalion 686. Considering that authorised strength is never complete and taking out people away from units on extra regimental employment and an average of 15% casualties which could not be made up, a regular infantry battalion was left with about 650 people on the average and R&S battalions left with about 550 persons. The strength of artillery and armour units is almost half of the infantry battalions)

*Navy and PAF* &#8211; 1500

*Rangers, Scouts, Mujahids and West Pakistani Policemen* &#8211; 4000
(EPCAF persons being local, did not surrender having joined their families)

*Civilians *&#8211; 1500

*Total *&#8211; 39000 (thirty nine thousands) approximate number of prisoners.

The Indians took two weeks (01 Jan to 15 Jan 1972) to pick up the prisoners from different parts of East Pakistan and placed them in various camps in Bihar, Uttar Pardesh and Madhia Pardesh, a very vast expanse of land. While starting their move from respective locations, the prisoners were told that they were in transit and would be moving to Pakistan. After keeping them for over two years in Indian camps, the prisoner were repatriated in small numbers spreading the process for about eight months starting Sep 1973 and ending by last week of April 1974. It was arranged in a manner that the men from fighting units do not get together. When the units were re raised after one year of the completion of repatriation process i.e. by mid 1975, very few of their original manpower could come back to the units.

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## DRaisinHerald

Armstrong said:


> 	Breakup of Pakistan, the largest Muslim country of the world which enjoyed great prestige in the comity of nations is tragic story. It was done by men blinded by lust for power. Remaining Pakistan continues to be afflicted by even worse rulers



Thanks for the great post; this last line really got me. East Pakistan would've been still been with us if only our leaders *cared* about the county. 

We really need to get rid of these incompetent Zardari-Gillani duo ASAP lest they somehow allow another 71' scenario to occur again.

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## MilSpec

Armstrong said:


> Some more thoughts by Colonel (R) Nazir Ahmed on 'debunking the 90,000 POW figure' !



this was published by your own government

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## darkinsky

my POV is that, bangladesh should have been made an independent from 1947, quaid e azam saw a great islamic country with east and west united, but it was not a natural thing, quaid e azam should have formed semi independent entity.


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## chairborne ranger

^true, the muslim ummah concept was wrongly put to test as a basis for nationhood. Otherwise, the two peoples had little in common. a more decentralized confederation might have worked better.


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## kobiraaz

Zinnah was 100 % correct, it was proved when a Bangali unit saved Lahore in 1965! No?? Only some power hungry politicians and generals who never loved their countrymen made Zinnah's dream a failure!!! Being Bengali i know how sentimental they are! You call them brother, they will give their life for you! You insult them, they are your worst enemy!!

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## Rusty

The ummah is alive and well. When ever I meet a Bengali, we always treat each other like brothers. 
The problem is our leaders who have sold themselves, their people, and religion for power and money. 
You Indians need to stop making up fantasies of destroying Muslims. As a people we are very united, it is our leaders who have sold us out.

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## Armstrong

sandy_3126 said:


> this was published by your own government



Yes ! And he alluded to that in his post as to why the delays in the transfer were done...perhaps even the figures by Bhutto's Government were deliberately shown as such to come across as 'the saviour' he wanted to !


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## kalu_miah

Great set of posts by Md. Akmal and Armstrong. I have several questions:

1. According to the latest estimate what were the number of people killed, please list by:

- combatant, non-combatant
- ethnic groups

2. Is it possible to identify the main party who actually killed these people in parenthesis next to the number of people killed with approximate time/date and place:

- Indian volunteers (special forces?)
- Mukti Bahini
- Pakistan Army

3. We know there was an ethnic fault line between Bengali and non-Bengali in pre-1971 Pakistan. Is it possible to establish the time line since 1947 and identify who were the main parties involved as mastermind of this conflict, such as Indian politicians, Indian intelligence branch, formation of Awami League and their decision to push for Bengali nationalism? We have to keep in mind that since 1947, it was in the geo-strategic interest of India to break Pakistan. I am just curious to see if we can pin point these actions by Indian authorities (politicians, media, intelligence branch, RAW after its formation in 1968 etc.) and who they used within then East Pakistan to achieve their objective and by what means and strategy. I would like to see names of key persons and dates. I wish there was a way to get hold of Indian Intelligence Branch and RAW classified files since 1947.

4. I should make a note here that most Bangladeshi's including myself and my family knew not much about behind the scenes movement by Indian authorities and their agents or ally's in then East Pakistan. Among Bengali's there was feeling of perceived unfairness, unequal treatment and lack of respect, which Mujib and Awamy League was agitating about, but it was not enough to break Pakistan. Things, however, changed quickly after the Army crackdown of 25th March, which was called operation searchlight. From that night, population in then East Pakistan started thinking about separation from West Pakistan. I hate to use the word "independence", people get independence from a colonial ruler. But as Bengali Muslims, I thought we were one of the architects of Pakistan, but why and how did we Bengali's start thinking that we were being ruled by non-Bengali's and we have to get "independence"? Since 25th March, Pakistan Army quickly lost the battle for hearts and minds of Bengali's in then East Pakistan, which was main factor in their defeat. But much before the hostilities started, East Pakistan population was being primed for this conflict and a field was created, so in a crisis situation, they can be ready to loose confidence on Pakistan as a state, lets also briefly concentrate on this issue as well.

5. Achieving the objective of breaking Pakistan was a great strategic victory by Indian strategists, I think we should study, the method they followed, the political and the military, if we want to understand their mode of operation. I am sure they are following some similar method as we speak, so unless we understand their moves and objectives, it will not be easy for us, India's neighbor states, to counter these moves. We should never underestimate our enemy. As they say, eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.

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## Md Akmal

@ On the Direct Action Day called by sometime on August 1946 by Muslim Leaque, there was a big riot at Calcutta and it continued for 7 days. Peaple says during these days almost 10,000 muslims were killed. Local police failed to tacle the situation later British army was called on but by this time many people died. 

@ Soon a riot broke out at Noakhali, Chittagong and Comilla. Now,the question arises why the riot only broke out at Noakhali. The reason was that in those days most of the labour, "Khalasies" and "Sarengs" were Bengali muslims from that particular locality. Thes people got little bit experienced due to association with Purtogase. To be mentioned before the British came this region was under Pustogase dominion for more than 500 years. Riot also broke out in BIhar and Punjab. So all these inccidents combinedly convinced the British authorities for the partition of Bengal and Punjab.


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## eastwatch

darkinsky said:


> my POV is that, bangladesh should have been made an independent from 1947, quaid e azam saw a great islamic country with east and west united, but it was not a natural thing, quaid e azam should have formed semi independent entity.



1) Considering the mindset of the then east Pakistanis it would not have been possible for them to accept a nationality other than Pakistani. No leader in east Bengal would have dared to utter any such idea in public. 

2) The muslim leaders of undivided India were not in a position to think themselves in two separate countries. It was too painful for them not to be with those with whome they had been sitting and talking for the last 30 years.

3) East Pakistan was very weak because muslims here were not holding weapons like the tribal Pathans did. This region was successfully unarmed by the British since after 1857 war of independence. So, it was vulnerable to the whims of India at that time. 

These are the many reasons that east Pakistani people wanted to remain with the west. The alternative could have been undoing of Pakistan.

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## MilSpec

Armstrong said:


> Yes ! And he alluded to that in his post as to why the delays in the transfer were done...perhaps even the figures by Bhutto's Government were deliberately shown as such to come across as 'the saviour' he wanted to !

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## PlanetSoldier

DRaisinHerald said:


> Thanks for the great post; this last line really got me. East Pakistan would've been still been with us if only our leaders *cared* about the county.
> 
> We really need to get rid of these incompetent Zardari-Gillani duo ASAP lest they somehow allow another 71' scenario to occur again.



You still have time, the leadership can be replaced by generous personalities like Imran Khan. I posted a similar post at http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...olved-post2905224.html?highlight=#post2905224 but I think you people didn't like my comments (didn't see any comments on that)  .

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## Armstrong

sandy_3126 said:


>



I dunno mate...! Thats what the Colonel said...if you think that the above placements are wrong please do notify me and I'd ask him accordingly but one must also understand that same such 'videos' talked about 3 million Bengalis butchered at the hands of the Pakistan Army; the Colonel, of course, disagrees but then again so do many Bangladeshis here on this forum too !

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## Luffy 500

1971 was a disaster for the muslim world as a whole. Incompetent leaders sold their country off for petty interest. Look at india,
they know the meaning of unity and strength. You won't find North Indian bharmins discriminating against their W.bengali 
Hindu brothers and vise-versa. We stupid muslims fell for the curse of ethnic nationalism and divide and rule policy. But as a 
muslim I believe that nothing happens without Allah(swt) will. May be 71 was a punishment on subcontinental muslims by 
or may be it was a test by Allah(swt) and we are undergoing that test. But whatever Allah(swt) does is for the best and
we have to march forward and look to the future. Inshallah a bright and prosperous future holds for both BD and PAK. The
whole muslim world should learn from the mistakes of 71.

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## junaid1

Luffy 500 said:


> 1971 was a disaster for the muslim world as a whole. Incompetent leaders sold their country off for petty interest. Look at india,
> they know the meaning of unity and strength. You won't find North Indian bharmins discriminating against their W.bengali
> Hindu brothers and vise-versa. We stupid muslims fell for the curse of ethnic nationalism and divide and rule policy. But as a
> muslim I believe that nothing happens without Allah(swt) will. May be 71 was a punishment on subcontinental muslims by
> or may be it was a test by Allah(swt) and we are undergoing that test. But whatever Allah(swt) does is for the best and
> we have to march forward and look to the future. Inshallah a bright and prosperous future holds for both BD and PAK. The
> whole muslim world should learn from the mistakes of 71.



i wish relations get better B/W our countries .we have to move forward .we are trying to build solid relations with india .i can't see why BD / PAK can't have good relations .


Hope for the Best

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## jaunty

December 16, 1971 was a great day for the subcontinent, a day when millions of innocent people were liberated from an oppressive genocidal regime.

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## Joe Shearer

Armstrong said:


> Some more thoughts by Colonel (R) Nazir Ahmed on 'debunking the 90,000 POW figure' !
> 
> So here goes :
> 
> 
> Order of Battle
> 
> Location of Pakistani units in East Pakistan on 03 December 1971.
> 
> Pakistan army started to work on a plan of defence against a possible Indian attack from July 1971. At that time, 3 infantry divisions held responsibility for the province: the 9th (CO: Maj. Gen.M H Ansari, HQ Jessore) looking after the area south of the Padma River, the 16th (Maj. Gen. Nazar Hussain Shah, HQ Natore) responsible for the area north of Padma and west of Jamuna rivers and the 14th (CO: Maj. Gen.Abdul Majid Qazi, HQ: Dhaka) looking after the rest of the province. The original plan was based on a series of exercises, known as Titumeer, which were held during 19701971. It was revised several times and approved in October 1971. General Niazi had created 4 ad hoc infantry brigades and 2 ad hoc infantry divisions regrouping the available troops before final order of battle was devised.
> 
> The final order of battle prior to December 3, 1971 was:
> 
> *Eastern Command Headquarters Dhaka*
> - GOC: Lt. General A. A. K. Niazi
> - COS: Brigadier Baqir Siddiqi
> - Commander Artillery: Brig. S. S. A. Kashim
> - Commander Armor: Col. Bakhtier
> - Commander Engineers: Brig. Iqbal Sharif
> - Commander Signals: Brig. Areef Reza
> - Commander Medical Service: Brig. Fahim Ahmed Khan
> - Advisor: Maj. Gen. Rao Farman Ali
> 
> Units under HQ Control:
> 
> - 6th Engineer Regiment
> - 10th Engineer Regiment  detached to various locations
> - 11th Engineer Regiment - Lt. Col Sarwar
> - 43rd Light Ack Ack  Lt. Col. Mohammad Afzal
> - 19th Signal Regiment
> - 3rd Commando Battalion (less elements)
> - Army Aviation Squadron #4  Lt. Col. Liakat Bokhari
> 
> *Dhaka Defense Scheme (adhoc) :*
> 
> - Brig. Kashim (North): Dhaka Cantonment & Tongi atea
> - Brig. Mansoor (East): Munshiganj & Narayanganj
> - Brig. Bashir: Dhaka city proper
> 
> EPCAF HQ and Sector units:
> - Police and Razakars
> 
> Pakistan Air Force CO: Air Commodore Enamul Huq
> 
> - No. 14 Squadron Tail-choppers: 20 F-86 Sabers
> - Training unit: 3 T-33
> 
> Pakistan Navy CO: Rear Admiral Mohammad Sharif
> - 4 Gunboats: PNS Rajshahi, Comilla, Sylhet and Jessore
> - 1 Patrol Boat: PNS Balaghat
> - 17 armed boats
> - Naval Marines  Captain Zamir
> 
> *36 Ad hoc Infantry Division:*
> CO: Maj. Gen. M. Jamshed Khan HQ Dhaka
> Area of Operation: Dhaka, Tangail and Mymensingh districts
> 
> - 93 Infantry Brigade: Brig Abdul Qadir Khan HQ Mymensingh
> - 83 Independent. Mortar battery
> - 31 Baluch  Jamalpur
> - 33 Punjab  Mymensingh
> - 71 Wing WPR  Kishorganj
> - 70 Wing WPR  Bijaipur
> 
> *14 Infantry Division*
> OC: Major General Abdul Majid Qazi, HQ Brahmanbaria
> Area of Operation: Sylhet and Northern Comilla districts
> 
> - 31st Field Artillery  Ashuganj  Brahmanbaria - Shamshernagar
> - 88 Independent Mortar Battery  Sylhet
> - 171 Independent Mortar Battery  Comilla
> 
> *Sylhet*
> 
> 202 Adhoc Brigade: Brig. Salimullah
> - 31 Punjab  Sylhet
> - 91 Mujahid Battalion  Sunamganj
> - 12 Azad Kashmir  Sylhet
> 
> Also: Wings of Tochi, Thal and Khyber scouts
> 
> *Maulavibazar*
> 
> - 313 infantry Brigade: Brig. Iftikar Rana
> - 22 Baluch  Kalaura
> - 30 Frontier Force  Shahshernagar
> - 91 Mujahid (minus elements) & Tochi Scouts  Sherpur
> 
> *Brahmanbaria*
> 
> - 27th Infantry Brigade: Brig. Saadullah
> - 33rd Baluch  Kasba
> - 12th Frontier Force  Akhaura
> - 2 Troops of M-24 Chaffee  Akhaura
> - 1x Anti Tank Platoon 34 Punjab (R&S)
> 
> *39 Ad hoc Division*
> OC: Maj. Gen. Rahim Khan  Chandpur
> Area of Operation: Comilla, Feni and Northern Chittagong
> 
> - 53rd Field Artillery  Comilla
> 
> *Comilla*
> 
> - 117th Infantry Brigade: Brig. Sheikh M.H. Atif
> - 30 Punjab  Saldanadi
> - 25th Frontier Force  Mainamati
> - 12th Azad Kashmir  Comilla
> 
> 
> *Feni*
> 
> - 53rde Infantry Brigade: Brig. Aslam Niazi
> - 15th Baluch  Belonia
> - 39th Baluch  Laksham
> - 23rd Punjab  Mean Bazar
> - 21 Azad Kashmir - Laksham
> 
> *Ramgarh*
> 
> - 91st Ad hoc Brigade: Brig. Mian Taskeenuddin HQ Chittagong
> - 24th Frontier Force  Ramgarh
> - Chakma and Mizo troops
> - EPCAF 11th and 14th Wings
> 
> *Chittagong*
> 
> - 97th Independent Brigade: Brig. Ata Mohd. Khan Malik
> - 48th Baluch  Chittagong
> - 2 SSg Commando - Rangamati
> - 60th Wing Rangers  Ramgarh
> - 61st Wing Rangers  Coxs Bazar
> - Naval Contingent
> - 46th Light Ack Ack Battery
> 
> *16th Infantry Division*
> CO: Maj. Gen. Nazar Hussain Shah HQ: Bogra, then Natore
> Area of Operation: Rajshahi, Bogra, Dinajpur, Rangpur and Pabna
> Districts
> 
> - 29th Cavalry less elements Rangpur
> - 48th Field Regiment  Thakurgaon
> - 80th Field Regiment  Hili
> - 117th Mortar Battery  Kurigram
> 
> *Saidpur*
> 
> - 23rd Infantry Brigade: Brig. Iqbal Shaffi
> - 25th Punjab  Lalmanirhut
> - 26th Frontier Force  Dinajpur
> - 48th Punjab  Nilphamari
> - 8 Punjab  Rangpur
> - 34th Punjab  (less one company and one anti tank platoon) Thakurgaon
> - 86th Mujahid  Gaibandha
> 
> *Bogra*
> 
> - 205th Infantry Brigade: Brig. Tajammul Hussain Malik HQ: Bogra (Tac HQ  Chatni in 4 FF area)
> - 32nd Baluch  Ghoraghat
> - 4 Frontier Force  Hilli
> - 8 Baluch  Jaipurhut
> - C Coy 34 Punjab (R&S) at Hilli/Panjbibi
> 
> *Nator*
> 
> - 34th Infantry Brigade: Brig. Mir Abdul Nayeem
> - 32nd Punjab  Nawabganj
> - 13th Frontier Force  Sapahar
> 
> *Rajshahi*
> 
> - Rajshahi Ad hoc Brigade[8]
> 
> *9th Infantry Division*
> CO: Maj. Gen HM. H. Ansari HQ Jessore
> Area of Operation: Khulna, Jessore, Kushtia, Faridpur, Barisal and Patuakhali districts
> 
> - 3rd Ind. Armored Squadron  Jessore
> - 55th Field Artillery  Satkhira and Chaugacha
> - 49th Field Artillery  Chuadanga
> - 211th Independent Mortar Battery  Chaugacha
> 
> *Jhenida*
> 
> - 57th Infantry Brigade: Brig. Manzoor H Atif
> - 18th Punjab  Darshana
> - 50th Punjab  Jhenida
> - 29th Baluch  Kushtia
> - Squadron 29th Cavalry  Kushtia
> 
> *Jessore*
> 
> - 107th Infantry Brigade: Brig. M Hayat Khan
> - 22nd Frontier Force  Benapole
> - 38th Frontier Force  Afra
> - 6th Punjab  Jessore
> - 21st Punjab  Satkhira
> - 15th Frontier Force  Jessore
> - 12th Punjab  Jessore
> 
> *Khulna*
> 
> - 314th Ad Hoc Brigade: Col. Fazle Hamid
> 
> *Total number of units of the different arms/services*
> 
> Above details have been taken from the Wikipedia and summarised below by Colonel (retd) Nazir Ahmed, OC C company 34 Punjab (R&S) during the counter insurgency operations and the 1971 war in erstwhile East Pakistan.
> 
> *Armour Regiment* - 1
> 
> *Infantry Battalions* -34 (31xregular Infantry battalions and three R&S battalions)
> 
> *Artillery*
> - Field regiments  6
> - Mortar Batteries  7
> - Engineer Battalions  3
> 
> *Signal battalions*  1
> 
> *Para military forces*
> 
> East Pakistan Civil Armed Force (EPCAF) raised in place of East Pakistan Rifles (EPR)  Approximately 12000 local persons. These people being locals, joined their families as the war ended. They did not become prisoners of war.
> 
> Scouts  3 Wings
> Rangers  4 Wings
> Mujahids  2 battalions (mainly local persons)
> Navy  4xGunboats, 17x armed boats and some marine personnel
> PAF  One Squadern
> 
> *The Number of Prisoners of War*
> 
> The much exaggerated figure of 93000 prisoners of war is absolutely false. Actual number of prisoners could not be more than forty thousands; a likely figure of 39000 inverted to 93000 which have stuck. Considering the authorised strength of the units which is never complete and about 15% attrition, the approximate breakdown is:
> 
> *Army*  32000 (authorised strength of a regular infantry battalion was 798 and that of R&S battalion 686. Considering that authorised strength is never complete and taking out people away from units on extra regimental employment and an average of 15% casualties which could not be made up, a regular infantry battalion was left with about 650 people on the average and R&S battalions left with about 550 persons. The strength of artillery and armour units is almost half of the infantry battalions)
> 
> *Navy and PAF*  1500
> 
> *Rangers, Scouts, Mujahids and West Pakistani Policemen*  4000
> (EPCAF persons being local, did not surrender having joined their families)
> 
> *Civilians * 1500
> 
> *Total * 39000 (thirty nine thousands) approximate number of prisoners.
> 
> The Indians took two weeks (01 Jan to 15 Jan 1972) to pick up the prisoners from different parts of East Pakistan and placed them in various camps in Bihar, Uttar Pardesh and Madhia Pardesh, a very vast expanse of land. While starting their move from respective locations, the prisoners were told that they were in transit and would be moving to Pakistan. After keeping them for over two years in Indian camps, the prisoner were repatriated in small numbers spreading the process for about eight months starting Sep 1973 and ending by last week of April 1974. It was arranged in a manner that the men from fighting units do not get together. When the units were re raised after one year of the completion of repatriation process i.e. by mid 1975, very few of their original manpower could come back to the units.




Hearing the voice of a close quarters observer, who lived through those times and had a ringside seat on the Pakistani side, was invaluable. Future historians, if they get hold of this, will no doubt also make allowances for the inaccuracies, the partial view of things and the partisan point of view which is apparent at times.

However, your friend, the retired Colonel, struck a false note. 

Let us take a quick look at the older, more conservative view first.




> India took approximately 90,000 prisoners of war, including Pakistani soldiers and their East Pakistani civilian supporters. 79,676 prisoners were uniformed personnel, of which 55,692 were Army, 16,354 Paramilitary, 5,296 Police, 1000 Navy and 800 PAF.[70] The remaining prisoners were civilians  either family members of the military personnel or collaborators (razakars). The Hamoodur Rahman Commission report instituted by Pakistan lists the Pakistani POWs as follows: Apart from soldiers, it was estimated that 15,000 Bengali civilians were also made prisoners of war.[71]
> Branch	Number of captured Pakistani POWs
> Army	54,154
> Navy	1,381
> Air Force	833
> Paramilitary including police	22,000
> Civilian personnel	12,000
> Total:	90,368




This was not Joe Shearer, but the official record. 

The Hamoodur Rahman Commission report covered all aspects of the debacle. As we can all see, it also paid attention to the numbers involved. It had access to all military records, both Pakistani, and, where it was concerned, Indian; as you know, some benefits and perquisites are administered by the detaining authorities for prisoners of war. These have to be accounted for very strictly, and the Pakistani commission must have referred to the reports and accounts presented by detaining authorities as well.

Against that record from the annals of a national commission, whose work has been accepted by its sponsors, the Government of Pakistan, we have with us the reconstruction attempted by a senior officer. However worthy his analysis, I fail to see why - and how- it can displace the official report.

The possibility of the entire thing being a conspiracy to enlarge Bhutto's role by making him the saviour of a larger number of men is,politely, sensationalist. It smacks of the conspiracy theories that lie like a miasma over every twist and turn of Pakistani history. The simple questions that need to be asked are: where was the good Colonel when the commission was sitting? Why did he not speak up then? Are we to believe, further, that nobody else had the imagination or the requisite access to information, or eve the drive and the motivation to set the record straight? Was nobody else before he interested in showing that the Pakistani armywas heavily outnumbered?

I am afraid that until it is clear that the commission was seriously in error, its view must prevail.


----------



## Md Akmal

junaid1 said:


> i wish relations get better B/W our countries .we have to move forward .we are trying to build solid relations with india .i can't see why BD / PAK can't have good relations .
> 
> 
> Hope for the Best



@ "Chup chup kar relation tu achai chal rahatha magar shale ye AL najani kahase agia ."


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## Md Akmal

*@ Pakistan's economy and its prestige was going very fast. General Ayub Khan was the leader of the Third world countries. In 1964, the second time election was held during Ayub' tenure. Miss fatema Jinnah was the opposition candidate. Sk Mujib supported Miss Fatema Jinnah. In those days it was common in the than East Pakistan to keep newly born child's name either as Jinnah or Liaquet. Once General Ayub came for election campaign in our district. I tell you people came to see him from each family. I also went to see him and lost my shoe. Miss Fatema was also very popular in East Pakistan but some how she missed it. In those days the election used to be held indirectly. There 40,000 BD (Basic Democrat) member earmarked for East Pakistan . Similarly 40,000 for West Pakistan. These BD members were directly elected by the common people. Now these newly elected BD member will vote for the President of Pakistan on behalf of the people. 
*

*@ The economy of combined Pakistan was considered as a reference in the Third World countries. Pakistan's economy was just after South Korea. Our living standard was much much higher. The young energetic Foreign Minister Butto quickly made a plan and convince General Ayub that this is the right time we should do some thing about Kashmir. India is already defeated by China in 1962, fomenting in Kashmir is on the process. So, the war started between Pakistan and India. Pakistan was betrayed by USA and their allies. USA said that Pakistan was not being attacked by any Communist Country so the question of helping or defending Pakistan does not comes. Ayub at once stopped the activities of USA air base at Peshawar. By 1968, the American base was completely evicted. USA was highly annoyed on Ayub. Soon Ayub tilted towards China. Ayub gave too much importance on non-alignment movement (NAM). Ayub also tried his best to have a good relation with USSR. Under the innitiative of Ayub he made RCD (Regional Cooperation for Development) The 1965 war with India was a suicidal for Pakistan which was planned and executed by Butto. So infact Ayub was trying to come out from American grip but Bhutto took this oppurtunity either wise we as a united Pakistan could have reached too high.
*


_*@ All these developments were not being liked by USA. USA needs some naval base somewhere at St Martin in East Pakistan. Many a times USA requested Ayub for this but Ayub rejected this proposal. This base was essential for logistic reason to support the war at Vietnam. So long Sk Mujib was jumping with little bit of milk from RAW(not yet formed). But once war was going between Pakistan and India instead of helping Muneum Khan he suggested to revolt against Pakistan and declare independence. Soon after the war om March 1966 at Lahore Sk Mujib announced his famous Six Points. What is six points no body knows it till the last. People says it was secretly made with the help of RAW and CIA and handed over to Mujib just he was about to board on PIA for Lahore conference. Mizanur Rahman said he saw Mujib to read this points while he was on board. In fact he himself was also not familiar with this handy Six points. Once he landed at Karachi airport, the generalists requested Mujib for explaining these points and but Mujib avoided the question and said with confident that next time he visit West Pakistan he would explain in detail. After coming to Dacca he called on a special meeting calling all the district GS and Presidents. It was widely discussed for the first time but out of 17 district committees 14 committees resigned from AL politics at once. Sk Mujib was highly shocked. Soon he called the student leaders like Razzak, Tofail, Ammu, Jillur, Jalil and others and said forget about the district AL committees what you can expect from all these old Muslim Leaquers. From now on I, Sk Mujib here by authorize you all power to visit all Thanas, Districts and Sub-Divisions and any corner of East Pakistan and make the six points popular. This is my " Magna Carta", go on at once. After this he became famous in East Pakistan. Soon he was picked by USA. Since than the Second officer of American Embassy had a regular meeting with this Sk Mujib. And so on----------- 

This was the reason why the student leaders became so powerful in AL politics.Soon, many went to India to take handy training.*_

_*@ You remember in 1956/57 the Provincial Speaker(East Bengal) Shahid died at the Assembly Room while the parliament session was going on. Most of us know that in one stage these were clash between the MP's inside the Parliament and some body threw a chair on the head of Speaker and later on he died. The fact was it was this great Sk Mujibur Rahman who threw a stone (paper weight) which directly hit the head of the speaker and he died. This was the clash between AL and "Jukto Front" MP's.*_


_*
@ Sk Mujib used to get bags of money from the industrialist of 22 families. Even he was made as the CEO of Insurance Company stationed at Dhaka. Soon he made this office as the centre of AL politics. Sk Mujib was a very greedy man. His eyes were always on the properties of non-Bengalis. He was foolish of the highest order. In those days raw Jute and its finish products were very costly in the international market. Once the Korean War(1952-54) was going on, the demand of raw jute, sand bags and "Hassen Cloths" was at peak. People says that the fire of raw jute was smokeless that is why these were used in gun powder. In early fifties there was too much of rush of foreign ships at Chalna Seaport. In order to facilitate the quick export of raw jute another Seaport was made at Mongla.* _

_*@@ Dear friends what I am writing here are almost fact but the question is may be it did not came up in the press. Ask these question to the old people only than you might get these results. There are many things in this world which remains hidden unless some body digs it *_

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## Armstrong

Joe Shearer said:


> Hearing the voice of a close quarters observer, who lived through those times and had a ringside seat on the Pakistani side, was invaluable. Future historians, if they get hold of this, will no doubt also make allowances for the inaccuracies, the partial view of things and the partisan point of view which is apparent at times.
> 
> However, your friend, the retired Colonel, struck a false note.
> 
> Let us take a quick look at the older, more conservative view first.
> 
> This was not Joe Shearer, but the official record.
> 
> The Hamoodur Rahman Commission report covered all aspects of the debacle. As we can all see, it also paid attention to the numbers involved. It had access to all military records, both Pakistani, and, where it was concerned, Indian; as you know, some benefits and perquisites are administered by the detaining authorities for prisoners of war. These have to be accounted for very strictly, and the Pakistani commission must have referred to the reports and accounts presented by detaining authorities as well.
> 
> Against that record from the annals of a national commission, whose work has been accepted by its sponsors, the Government of Pakistan, we have with us the reconstruction attempted by a senior officer. However worthy his analysis, I fail to see why - and how- it can displace the official report.
> 
> The possibility of the entire thing being a conspiracy to enlarge Bhutto's role by making him the saviour of a larger number of men is,politely, sensationalist. It smacks of the conspiracy theories that lie like a miasma over every twist and turn of Pakistani history. The simple questions that need to be asked are: where was the good Colonel when the commission was sitting? Why did he not speak up then? Are we to believe, further, that nobody else had the imagination or the requisite access to information, or eve the drive and the motivation to set the record straight? Was nobody else before he interested in showing that the Pakistani armywas heavily outnumbered?
> 
> I am afraid that until it is clear that the commission was seriously in error, its view must prevail.



Mr.Shearer I posed your questions to the Colonel and this is what he had to say : 

Brief answer to your questions are:


Hamood ur Rahamn commission was constituted by ZA Bhutto's government, Bhutto being the main character involved in breakup of Pakistan. The commission got these figures from Bhutto government. This report was never published because it contained such lies and may be exposed his role through some statements. If you recollect the figure of POW touted in the initial years by the government and even after the repatriation was 93000 (ninety three thousands). These days it is being given as 90000 (ninety thousands).

The figures are absolutely wrong. The number of Army persons can be calculated from the detail of units and formation listed in the ORBAT (order of battle) which is available in many Indian publications. It comes to about thirty two thousand all ranks.
The number of Navy and Air force seems correct.
The paramilitary East Pakistan Rifles, about fifteen thousand strong revolted in March and after some months another force the East Pakistan Civil Armed Force (EPCAF) was raised. The manpower was locals, mainly Urdu speaking 'Biharis' who joined their families as the war ended.
The civilians were some senior civil servants not many in numbers because the junior staff was local. Some civilians like staff of two merchant ships and such others, again not in the numbers mentioned, were with us.
As far families, the Army struggling to fight a counter insurgency campaign spread all over in the country in penny packets could not be living with families. What happened to the families of West Pakistanis in the months of Feb, March and April at the hands of Bengali mobs was great deterrence to keep families even by those posted at Dacca.

P.S I asked him to tell a little more about himself : 

As far as my indentity is concerned I am a 70 years old soldier who, as comapnay commander of an infantry company traversed almost one third of the East Pakistan mainly on foot between the months of April to Dec 1971. My unit 34 Punjab, started its move from Dacca on 11th April (after being airlifted by PIA on 06-08Apr) moving to Narsinghdi, Bhairab Bazar, crossed over towards Brahman Baria, recrossed back to continue towads Kishor Ganj, Mymen Singh. Nitrakona and Durgapur. This was first phase till end April. In second phase we crossed over towards Rangpur, Kurigram, Nageswary, Bhurangamari and then to Thakurgaon covering the area Pirganj, Ranishankail, Nekmard, Ruhea, Pacharagh, Jagdalhat and Amarkhan along the borders. From there I with my company was moved south to Hilli , remained in Pachbibi and during the war mover further west to Patnitola finally coming to Nogaon where my group met the Indians on 22 Dec 71.

I hope some questions are answered. I will end by quoting the middle aged Bengali who on 16 Dec, when I was closing my troops from Patinitola for move to Naogaon, briskly walked upto me, hugged me and stating crying on my shoulder with loud laments "I remember Ayb Khan, I remember Ayub Khan, this is not what we wanted". If we have lost east Pakistan, the Bengalis have lost pakistan. I have a hope that if we can get out the clutches of US appointed rulers, we can realize our true potential and have excellent relation with Bengal may be in the form a federation. 

I retired as Colonel after completing my age and service limit in 1994. Am living near Rawalpindi/Islamabad. Occasionally I keep contributing letters in the Newspost of the daily News, with my name Colonel (retd) Nazir Ahmed

P.P.S I hope that answers the questions but if you've found any discrepancy in the OBAT please do let me know and I'd try to obtain a clarification (or an explanation) from the Colonel ! 

Regards, 
Armstrong !

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## Joe Shearer

Armstrong said:


> Mr.Shearer I posed your questions to the Colonel and this is what he had to say :
> 
> Brief answer to your questions are:
> 
> 
> Hamood ur Rahamn commission was constituted by ZA Bhutto's government, Bhutto being the main character involved in breakup of Pakistan. The commission got these figures from Bhutto government. This report was never published because it contained such lies and may be exposed his role through some statements. If you recollect the figure of POW touted in the initial years by the government and even after the repatriation was 93000 (ninety three thousands). These days it is being given as 90000 (ninety thousands).
> 
> The figures are absolutely wrong. The number of Army persons can be calculated from the detail of units and formation listed in the ORBAT (order of battle) which is available in many Indian publications. It comes to about thirty two thousand all ranks.
> The number of Navy and Air force seems correct.
> The paramilitary East Pakistan Rifles, about fifteen thousand strong revolted in March and after some months another force the East Pakistan Civil Armed Force (EPCAF) was raised. The manpower was locals, mainly Urdu speaking 'Biharis' who joined their families as the war ended.
> The civilians were some senior civil servants not many in numbers because the junior staff was local. Some civilians like staff of two merchant ships and such others, again not in the numbers mentioned, were with us.
> As far families, the Army struggling to fight a counter insurgency campaign spread all over in the country in penny packets could not be living with families. What happened to the families of West Pakistanis in the months of Feb, March and April at the hands of Bengali mobs was great deterrence to keep families even by those posted at Dacca.
> 
> P.S I asked him to tell a little more about himself :
> 
> As far as my indentity is concerned I am a 70 years old soldier who, as comapnay commander of an infantry company traversed almost one third of the East Pakistan mainly on foot between the months of April to Dec 1971. My unit 34 Punjab, started its move from Dacca on 11th April (after being airlifted by PIA on 06-08Apr) moving to Narsinghdi, Bhairab Bazar, crossed over towards Brahman Baria, recrossed back to continue towads Kishor Ganj, Mymen Singh. Nitrakona and Durgapur. This was first phase till end April. In second phase we crossed over towards Rangpur, Kurigram, Nageswary, Bhurangamari and then to Thakurgaon covering the area Pirganj, Ranishankail, Nekmard, Ruhea, Pacharagh, Jagdalhat and Amarkhan along the borders. From there I with my company was moved south to Hilli , remained in Pachbibi and during the war mover further west to Patnitola finally coming to Nogaon where my group met the Indians on 22 Dec 71.
> 
> I hope some questions are answered. I will end by quoting the middle aged Bengali who on 16 Dec, when I was closing my troops from Patinitola for move to Naogaon, briskly walked upto me, hugged me and stating crying on my shoulder with loud laments "I remember Ayb Khan, I remember Ayub Khan, this is not what we wanted". If we have lost east Pakistan, the Bengalis have lost pakistan. I have a hope that if we can get out the clutches of US appointed rulers, we can realize our true potential and have excellent relation with Bengal may be in the form a federation.
> 
> I retired as Colonel after completing my age and service limit in 1994. Am living near Rawalpindi/Islamabad. Occasionally I keep contributing letters in the Newspost of the daily News, with my name Colonel (retd) Nazir Ahmed
> 
> P.P.S I hope that answers the questions but if you've found any discrepancy in the OBAT please do let me know and I'd try to obtain a clarification (or an explanation) from the Colonel !
> 
> Regards,
> Armstrong !



Let it not be said that I will question the word of an officer and a gentleman. 

On my part, I merely wish to state that if an official commission of enquiry can be manipulated to yield false figures, falsified to the extent of three times, from about 39,000 to a figure of 93,000, then nothing is sacred. As the Colonel has worked out the actual list so carefully, in the interests of truth and for the honour of the Army, he should write an open letter to the COAS stating his case, and seeking the Chief's intervention to set right the figure. A copy of this should be given to the major media, including the electronic media. 

One suggestion: military people are normally publicity-shy. If you are convinced that he has done a thorough job, you might like to take up this petition on his behalf. Even if the Chief believes that he need not take up the matter, the newspapers or the TV people surely will. Nothing so large in consequence will pass them by. In this way, a further investigation will be launched, and the truth will be forced out, Commission or no Commission. If people ask you how you got your figures, you can request the Colonel to support you as an expert witness.

This is the fairest way in which we can test the Colonel's numbers against the Commission's numbers, without doubting either.


----------



## TopCat

Md Akmal said:


> *@ Pakistan's economy and its prestige was going very fast. General Ayub Khan was the leader of the Third world countries. In 1964, the second time election was held during Ayub' tenure. Miss fatema Jinnah was the opposition candidate. Sk Mujib supported Miss Fatema Jinnah. In those days it was common in the than East Pakistan to keep newly born child's name either as Jinnah or Liaquet. Once General Ayub came for election campaign in our district. I tell you people came to see him from each family. I also went to see him and lost my shoe. Miss Fatema was also very popular in East Pakistan but some how she missed it. In those days the election used to be held indirectly. There 40,000 BD (Basic Democrat) member earmarked for East Pakistan . Similarly 40,000 for West Pakistan. These BD members were directly elected by the common people. Now these newly elected BD member will vote for the President of Pakistan on behalf of the people.
> *
> 
> *@ The economy of combined Pakistan was considered as a reference in the Third World countries. Pakistan's economy was just after South Korea. Our living standard was much much higher. The young energetic Foreign Minister Butto quickly made a plan and convince General Ayub that this is the right time we should do some thing about Kashmir. India is already defeated by China in 1962, fomenting in Kashmir is on the process. So, the war started between Pakistan and India. Pakistan was betrayed by USA and their allies. USA said that Pakistan was not being attacked by any Communist Country so the question of helping or defending Pakistan does not comes. Ayub at once stopped the activities of USA air base at Peshawar. By 1968, the American base was completely evicted. USA was highly annoyed on Ayub. Soon Ayub tilted towards China. Ayub gave too much importance on non-alignment movement (NAM). Ayub also tried his best to have a good relation with USSR. Under the innitiative of Ayub he made RCD (Regional Cooperation for Development) The 1965 war with India was a suicidal for Pakistan which was planned and executed by Butto. So infact Ayub was trying to come out from American grip but Bhutto took this oppurtunity either wise we as a united Pakistan could have reached too high.
> *
> 
> 
> _*@ All these developments were not being liked by USA. USA needs some naval base somewhere at St Martin in East Pakistan. Many a times USA requested Ayub for this but Ayub rejected this proposal. This base was essential for logistic reason to support the war at Vietnam. So long Sk Mujib was jumping with little bit of milk from RAW(not yet formed). But once war was going between Pakistan and India instead of helping Muneum Khan he suggested to revolt against Pakistan and declare independence. Soon after the war om March 1966 at Lahore Sk Mujib announced his famous Six Points. What is six points no body knows it till the last. People says it was secretly made with the help of RAW and CIA and handed over to Mujib just he was about to board on PIA for Lahore conference. Mizanur Rahman said he saw Mujib to read this points while he was on board. In fact he himself was also not familiar with this handy Six points. Once he landed at Karachi airport, the generalists requested Mujib for explaining these points and but Mujib avoided the question and said with confident that next time he visit West Pakistan he would explain in detail. After coming to Dacca he called on a special meeting calling all the district GS and Presidents. It was widely discussed for the first time but out of 17 district committees 14 committees resigned from AL politics at once. Sk Mujib was highly shocked. Soon he called the student leaders like Razzak, Tofail, Ammu, Jillur, Jalil and others and said forget about the district AL committees what you can expect from all these old Muslim Leaquers. From now on I, Sk Mujib here by authorize you all power to visit all Thanas, Districts and Sub-Divisions and any corner of East Pakistan and make the six points popular. This is my " Magna Carta", go on at once. After this he became famous in East Pakistan. Soon he was picked by USA. Since than the Second officer of American Embassy had a regular meeting with this Sk Mujib. And so on-----------
> 
> This was the reason why the student leaders became so powerful in AL politics.Soon, many went to India to take handy training.*_
> 
> _*@ You remember in 1956/57 the Provincial Speaker(East Bengal) Shahid died at the Assembly Room while the parliament session was going on. Most of us know that in one stage these were clash between the MP's inside the Parliament and some body threw a chair on the head of Speaker and later on he died. The fact was it was this great Sk Mujibur Rahman who threw a stone (paper weight) which directly hit the head of the speaker and he died. This was the clash between AL and "Jukto Front" MP's.*_
> 
> 
> _*
> @ Sk Mujib used to get bags of money from the industrialist of 22 families. Even he was made as the CEO of Insurance Company stationed at Dhaka. Soon he made this office as the centre of AL politics. Sk Mujib was a very greedy man. His eyes were always on the properties of non-Bengalis. He was foolish of the highest order. In those days raw Jute and its finish products were very costly in the international market. Once the Korean War(1952-54) was going on, the demand of raw jute, sand bags and "Hassen Cloths" was at peak. People says that the fire of raw jute was smokeless that is why these were used in gun powder. In early fifties there was too much of rush of foreign ships at Chalna Seaport. In order to facilitate the quick export of raw jute another Seaport was made at Mongla.* _
> 
> _*@@ Dear friends what I am writing here are almost fact but the question is may be it did not came up in the press. Ask these question to the old people only than you might get these results. There are many things in this world which remains hidden unless some body digs it *_



You are picking bits and pieces of history and putting them together. Well nice try. Its like from long sentence you pick the words of your choice and make a shorter sentence which has a complete different meaning. For instance 6 point demand was not initiated by Mujib which is true but put forward in 1962 by the students. It was first rejected by AL including Sk. Mujib. So it was no secret deal handed to Sk. Mujib on his way to W. Pakistan. There were different plans proposed by different person like Mohammed Ali Bogra, Shahid Sohrawardy etc to keep a parity between East and West Pakistan. All the administrative control and head quarters were located in West Pakistan including banks which made it very difficult for East Pakistan to keep pace with West. The design itself was flawed. Yes some Bengali people were the beneficiary of the system who could afford to travel to West Pakistan like you but our peasant and middle class were the victims.

I dont want to continue as I dont want to spoil your party.. Carry on!!

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## Md Akmal

@ Hi Armstrong, it seems your this Colonel is not fictitious.

 "*As far as my indentity is concerned I am a 70 years old soldier who, as comapnay commander of an infantry company traversed almost one third of the East Pakistan mainly on foot between the months of April to Dec 1971. My unit 34 Punjab, started its move from Dacca on 11th April (after being airlifted by PIA on 06-08Apr) moving to Narsinghdi, Bhairab Bazar, crossed over towards Brahman Baria, recrossed back to continue towads Kishor Ganj, Mymen Singh. Nitrakona and Durgapur. This was first phase till end April. In second phase we crossed over towards Rangpur, Kurigram, Nageswary, Bhurangamari and then to Thakurgaon covering the area Pirganj, Ranishankail, Nekmard, Ruhea, Pacharagh, Jagdalhat and Amarkhan along the borders. From there I with my company was moved south to Hilli , remained in Pachbibi and during the war mover further west to Patnitola finally coming to Nogaon where my group met the Indians on 22 Dec 71.* 

@@ I liked the above statement of Colonel. It seems even he was in my locality. Probably I saw him while patrolling in our area. I remember, it was on 14 August 1971, we went to see a friendly football match arranged by the local officials on the eve of Pakistan Day. In one side the Pakistani troops and on the other side the local Bengalis. Than suddenly we saw a patrol came after patrolling and a young capt just after removing his army boot jumped on the field. Who won on this match I did not remember but definitely both sides got the prizes. 

@ I remember one another incident, in those days I mean during the liberation war, one day we heard that one Razakar had been killed by the Mukti Bahini while he was guarding the culvert. Infact there were 3 Razakars were poste there to guard the culvert. At mid-night once the Mukti's came another two fled away but this Razakar remained at his post till he finished his 10 supplied ammunition. This Razakar was first killed by bullet than boynotted and finally his eyes were taken away. We went to see there. Than the Pakistan army came. The father of the Razakar was crying, then I saw one Naib Subedar said, _*" Mat ro, mat ro, tera puttar shahid hogia, Allah ko piare ho gia ".*_

@ Most of the points I agree with this Colonel but the question is how come we can take the figure as authentic. During that period he was only a Capt, may be during the last stage he was promoted to Maj. I have gone through the book, " Betrayal of East Pakistan" by General Niazi . In this Niazi set the figure of Army some thing like 46,000. The others were para-military forces, civilians, Navy, Airforce and their families.

@ I have also gone through the book of Siddique Saleh, "Witness to Surrender" there he also did not mention the contradiction of surrendered figure. But it is thrue the 3 Infantry Division less heavy equipments cannot make 93,000 combat troops.

@ Another point the Colonel mentioned that during the initial resistance movement all the bridges were destroyed. I thing this statement is not correct. May be these were blocked but not demolished.

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## kumarkumar1867

16 Dec 1971 was great day for south asian history indeed ! First RIP to 3 million deceased people ! greatest surrender by any nation in mordern military history ! wonderful moment of creation & freedom of bangladesh !

hope bangladeshis show there oppressive rulers of past that they were or are in no way underdogs & inferior muslims like they were treated before this unique historical day !


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## Md Akmal

iajdani said:


> You are picking bits and pieces of history and putting them together. Well nice try. Its like from long sentence you pick the words of your choice and make a shorter sentence which has a complete different meaning. For instance 6 point demand was not initiated by Mujib which is true but put forward in 1962 by the students. It was first rejected by AL including Sk. Mujib. So it was no secret deal handed to Sk. Mujib on his way to W. Pakistan. There were different plans proposed by different person like Mohammed Ali Bogra, Shahid Sohrawardy etc to keep a parity between East and West Pakistan. All the administrative control and head quarters were located in West Pakistan including banks which made it very difficult for East Pakistan to keep pace with West. The design itself was flawed. Yes some Bengali people were the beneficiary of the system who could afford to travel to West Pakistan like you but our peasant and middle class were the victims.
> 
> I dont want to continue as I dont want to spoil your party.. Carry on!!



@ Hi iajdani thanks for giving your output. I know you are very good in history but I would request you to study the history again. The point you are talking about are those points of the students. In fact it all started once Sohrawardy was the Prime Minister in 1956. During his times Pakistan signed the De fence Pact with USA. Before that Pakistan joined in SEATO and CENTO. The Six Points was first declared on February/March 1966 at Lahore. You cannot compare the Six points with that of 22 points of the students !!!!

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## Armstrong

Joe Shearer said:


> Let it not be said that I will question the word of an officer and a gentleman.
> 
> On my part, I merely wish to state that if an official commission of enquiry can be manipulated to yield false figures, falsified to the extent of three times, from about 39,000 to a figure of 93,000, then nothing is sacred. As the Colonel has worked out the actual list so carefully, in the interests of truth and for the honour of the Army, he should write an open letter to the COAS stating his case, and seeking the Chief's intervention to set right the figure. A copy of this should be given to the major media, including the electronic media.
> 
> One suggestion: military people are normally publicity-shy. If you are convinced that he has done a thorough job, you might like to take up this petition on his behalf. Even if the Chief believes that he need not take up the matter, the newspapers or the TV people surely will. Nothing so large in consequence will pass them by. In this way, a further investigation will be launched, and the truth will be forced out, Commission or no Commission. If people ask you how you got your figures, you can request the Colonel to support you as an expert witness.
> 
> This is the fairest way in which we can test the Colonel's numbers against the Commission's numbers, without doubting either.


 


Md Akmal said:


> @ Hi Armstrong, it seems your this Colonel is not fictitious.
> 
> "*As far as my indentity is concerned I am a 70 years old soldier who, as comapnay commander of an infantry company traversed almost one third of the East Pakistan mainly on foot between the months of April to Dec 1971. My unit 34 Punjab, started its move from Dacca on 11th April (after being airlifted by PIA on 06-08Apr) moving to Narsinghdi, Bhairab Bazar, crossed over towards Brahman Baria, recrossed back to continue towads Kishor Ganj, Mymen Singh. Nitrakona and Durgapur. This was first phase till end April. In second phase we crossed over towards Rangpur, Kurigram, Nageswary, Bhurangamari and then to Thakurgaon covering the area Pirganj, Ranishankail, Nekmard, Ruhea, Pacharagh, Jagdalhat and Amarkhan along the borders. From there I with my company was moved south to Hilli , remained in Pachbibi and during the war mover further west to Patnitola finally coming to Nogaon where my group met the Indians on 22 Dec 71.*
> 
> @@ I liked the above statement of Colonel. It seems even he was in my locality. Probably I saw him while patrolling in our area. I remember, it was on 14 August 1971, we went to see a friendly football match arranged by the local officials on the eve of Pakistan Day. In one side the Pakistani troops and on the other side the local Bengalis. Than suddenly we saw a patrol came after patrolling and a young capt just after removing his army boot jumped on the field. Who won on this match I did not remember but definitely both sides got the prizes.
> 
> @ I remember one another incident, in those days I mean during the liberation war, one day we heard that one Razakar had been killed by the Mukti Bahini while he was guarding the culvert. Infact there were 3 Razakars were poste there to guard the culvert. At mid-night once the Mukti's came another two fled away but this Razakar remained at his post till he finished his 10 supplied ammunition. This Razakar was first killed by bullet than boynotted and finally his eyes were taken away. We went to see there. Than the Pakistan army came. The father of the Razakar was crying, then I saw one Naib Subedar said, _*" Mat ro, mat ro, tera puttar shahid hogia, Allah ko piare ho gia ".*_
> 
> @ Most of the points I agree with this Colonel but the question is how come we can take the figure as authentic. During that period he was only a Capt, may be during the last stage he was promoted to Maj. I have gone through the book, " Betrayal of East Pakistan" by General Niazi . In this Niazi set the figure of Army some thing like 46,000. The others were para-military forces, civilians, Navy, Airforce and their families.
> 
> @ Another point the Colonel mentioned that during the initial resistance movement all the bridges were destroyed. I thing this statement is not correct. May be these were blocked but not demolished.



The Colonel sent me a 200 page manuscript detailing his life's history in the '71 War from the first orders he received to be re-posted to East-Pakistan till he finally returned to Pakistan ! Unfortunately my exams are due in less than a months time and so I've only read a few pages of it...but I promise to get back as soon as I'm free and so I'll try to find out more answers for you guys ! Hes thinking of possibly getting it published...I'm imploring him to do so ! So lets see...!

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## kalu_miah

Good posts from Md. Akmal and Armstrong, keep going please.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-east-pakistan-bangladesh-55.html#post2913075

If I may point out, I didn't get a response to my above post.

In order for Bangladesh and Pakistan to learn from our past, we need to have a joint project to sift through documents, personal accounts and other sources to create an authentic account of the conflict and its history. Then we can put this account in both of our text books so that it can teach our new generations how not to fall into enemy traps.

This has to be done as soon as possible, before the older people pass away and documents are destroyed by criminals to hide their tracks.

Also, more importantly it will be an effective tool to deconstruct this false reality of "independence" and "liberation" that India has worked hard to build since decades before 1971 and trying hard to maintain among Bangladesh population today using their RAWamy agents.

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## Armstrong

kalu_miah said:


> Good posts from Md. Akmal and Armstrong, keep going please.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-east-pakistan-bangladesh-55.html#post2913075
> 
> *If I may point out, I didn't get a response to my above post.*
> 
> In order for Bangladesh and Pakistan to learn from our past, we need to have a joint project to sift through documents, personal accounts and other sources to create an authentic account of the conflict and its history. Then we can put this account in both of our text books so that it can teach our new generations how not to fall into enemy traps.
> 
> This has to be done as soon as possible, before the older people pass away and documents are destroyed by criminals to hide their tracks.
> 
> Also, more importantly it will be an effective tool to deconstruct this false reality of "independence" and "liberation" that India has worked hard to build since decades before 1971 and trying hard to maintain among Bangladesh population today using their RAWamy agents.



I'll try to answer them at a later date though I'm not sure if there is any study (or document) out there impartial enough to suggest the break-up of the casualties like that !

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## Md Akmal

Armstrong said:


> _*
> "As far as my indentity is concerned I am a 70 years old soldier who, as comapnay commander of an infantry company traversed almost one third of the East Pakistan mainly on foot between the months of April to Dec 1971. My unit 34 Punjab, started its move from Dacca on 11th April (after being airlifted by PIA on 06-08Apr) moving to Narsinghdi, Bhairab Bazar, crossed over towards Brahman Baria, recrossed back to continue towads Kishor Ganj, Mymen Singh. Nitrakona and Durgapur. This was first phase till end April.
> *__*
> 
> In second phase we crossed over towards Rangpur, Kurigram, Nageswary, Bhurangamari and then to Thakurgaon covering the area Pirganj, Ranishankail, Nekmard, Ruhea, Pacharagh, Jagdalhat and Amarkhan along the borders. From there I with my company was moved south to Hilli , remained in Pachbibi and during the war mover further west to Patnitola finally coming to Nogaon where my group met the Indians on 22 Dec 71."*_




_*@ Dear Armstrong, more I read the above statement of Colonel (Retd) Nazir Ahmed, more I became trilled, surprised, amazed. You see still he could remember the names of the areas correctly, could spell correctly and the direction is also absolutely correct. How could he and his troops could travel in those marshy areas. More so, in those days there were hardly any bridge or culverts were available. These people are legend not only for Pakistan but for BANGLADESH also. I salute this Colonel. Please convey my best regards to him. You see he also fought at Hilli Battle where the Allied Forces were delayed for 20 days. I think, that was the reason why Brig Tozammel did not wants to surrender. Probably people like Colonel Nazir Ahmed was there with him. I liked the fighting spirit of this Brig Tajammul Hussain Malik. You know Arnstrong this Brig was sitting at GHQ, Rawalpindi and monitoring the battle situation till October 1971. Once he saw that there was a casualty of 30/40 everyday in the than East Pakistan he could not stopped himself and was volunteer to be posted in East Pakistan. Soon he came, pacified the local people, trained his troops to its highest extend, fought to the last but did not surrendered though ordered by General Niazi. Finally once he was moving to his tactical HQ to Noagaon from Bogra he was ambushed and seriously injured and was captured. During those critical days once other General were positioned themselves inside over head protected under ground command post. This poor Brigadier was moving with his small command element inside the streets of Bogra Town with full zeal and enthusiasm and inspiring the Biharis and local people to fight till the last. Under the leadership of this Brig, the Battle of Hilly has become legend in the history. Still people come to see this area. I think now we have to preserve this area. In the present situation in context with Bangladesh we need people like Colonel Nazir Ahmed and Brigadier Tazammal Hossain Malik. 

*_

*Bogra
*
- 205th Infantry Brigade: Brig. Tajammul Hussain Malik HQ: Bogra (Tac HQ &#8211; Chatni in 4 FF area)
- 32nd Baluch &#8211; Ghoraghat
- 4 Frontier Force &#8211; Hilli
- 8 Baluch &#8211; Jaipurhut
- *C Coy 34 Punjab (R&S) at Hilli/Panjbibi*
*


@ Armstrong, don not go with the idea that your troops had not fought in this rain prone area. Even after fighting with initial resistance against the deflectors, than with the insurgents and finally with the combined forces of India and Bangladesh, your troops displayed a good performance. Your another Brig Hayat also fought with the Indians at Khulna sector till the last. I was surprised to read even under these critical situation your Command structure could follow the Battle Procedure like the final execution of Denial Plan. Some of the good examples were demolishing all bridges, burning of Pakistani notes almost in all Districts, destroying the heavy equipments including the aircraft, burning the oil, drowning the battle ships and finally shifting the golds/money along with women and children with the squadron of Helicopters to Burma. * *What a trained soldier you had !!!!!!!!!!!!Give me a break!!!!!*

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## veer bhogya vasundhara

Luffy 500 said:


> 1971 was a disaster for the muslim world as a whole. Incompetent leaders sold their country off for petty interest. Look at india,
> they know the meaning of unity and strength. You won't find North Indian bharmins discriminating against their W.bengali
> Hindu brothers and vise-versa. We stupid muslims fell for the curse of ethnic nationalism and divide and rule policy. But as a
> muslim I believe that nothing happens without Allah(swt) will. May be 71 was a punishment on subcontinental muslims by
> or may be it was a test by Allah(swt) and we are undergoing that test. But whatever Allah(swt) does is for the best and
> we have to march forward and look to the future. Inshallah a bright and prosperous future holds for both BD and PAK. The
> whole muslim world should learn from the mistakes of 71.



very right bro... both muslims and hindus of subcontinent should come closer


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## Joe Shearer

veer bhogya vasundhara said:


> very right bro... both muslims and hindus of subcontinent should come closer




Er matha thik nei, apnara doya koriya kichchhu mone korben na.


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## Md Akmal

veer bhogya vasundhara said:


> very right bro... both muslims and hindus of subcontinent should come closer



@ How come these two groups will come closer ? Any special idea ?


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## PlanetSoldier

Joe Shearer said:


> Er matha thik nei, apnara doya koriya kichchhu mone korben na.



So you opine people of subcontinent should not live together irrespective of religious background (not only hindu muslim but all) !!!


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## Joe Shearer

PlanetSoldier said:


> So you opine people of subcontinent should not live together irrespective of religious background (not only hindu muslim but all) !!!



I opine that the present political arrangements are good enough to do whatever we have to do, and advocating any political unions is unnecessary, causes fear and alarm in others, and is best avoided. If it has to happen, it will happen.


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## PlanetSoldier

Joe Shearer said:


> I opine that the present political arrangements are good enough to do whatever we have to do, and advocating any political unions is unnecessary, causes fear and alarm in others, and is best avoided. If it has to happen, it will happen.



Living people together irrespective of religious background is definitely not a political issue but yes it's been made such by ill headed politicians of subcontinent.


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## Joe Shearer

PlanetSoldier said:


> Living people together irrespective of religious background is definitely not a political issue but yes it's been made such by ill headed politicians of subcontinent.



Precisely. It has become political. Until the people take back this issue, it is best left alone.


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## TopCat

PlanetSoldier said:


> Living people together irrespective of religious background is definitely not a political issue but yes it's been made s*uch by ill headed politicians of subcontinent*.



You are wrong, the issue was not invented by the politicians but politicians did exploit the prevailing religious division.


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## Syed Naved

Wish that , Quaid Was Alive For Few Mores,No Muzib-Bhutto & Our Beloved Country United Pakistan Was Together.
Muzib & Bhutto Just Destroy The Nation , So Their Killing Was Absolutely " A Justice "
Long Live West ,Love From The East

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## Yashkun

Long live Pakistan and Bangaladesh as tqo Muslim states helping each other in thick and thin.

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## Tacit Wave

Syed Naved said:


> *Wish that , Quaid Was Alive For Few Mores,No Muzib-Bhutto & Our Beloved Country United Pakistan Was Together.*
> Muzib & Bhutto Just Destroy The Nation , So Their Killing Was Absolutely " A Justice "
> Long Live West ,Love From The East


Ahhh, tears in my eyes 
Long Live east, Love and best wishes from west.

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## India defense

Yashkun said:


> Long live Pakistan and Bangaladesh as tqo Muslim states helping each other in thick and thin.


I see more sweetness in relation after becoming 2 different nation....good


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## Al-zakir

Although the separation was bloody but there is still connection/jazbaati link between the former country men. I have first hand experience living in the west. We try to avoid the saga of 71 whenever comes up because this open up old wound. Our strongest bond is our Deen(Islam) and those live by the teaching of our prophet (s.w.s) has no grivence over 71. I believe Bd-Pakistan would have formed some kind of loose federation if it not the presence of Awami dalal league in Bangladesh. 

Bangladeshi nationalists forces can seek help from Pakistan to eliminate Awami from Bd land in order to purify it's root.

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## Tacit Wave

India defense said:


> I see more sweetness in relation after becoming 2 different nation....good


Jealousy is not good for Health.

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## Al-zakir



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## Baby Leone

record posts hav been deleted in this thread....it seems


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## kalu_miah

Here is an Indian blaming Bhutto for the 1971 civil war, Bhutto did make the final decisive move by giving a go-ahead for the Operation Searchlight, but the chess board was set long before to push him into a corner where he was forced to make an irrational blunder, in my opinion, or was it deliberate? (may be some member with more knowledge can elaborate):
Was Bhutto the Catylist for the Creation of Bangladesh ?

Indira Gandhi interview during 1971:
Rare Mrs Indira Gandhi Interview on Bangladesh Liberation War 1971 (Video) | Ekawaaz - One Voice - Many Issues : News Views and Reviews
Mrs Gandhi Interview on Problems with Pakistan - YouTube


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## monitor

*Is it true that three of Yahiya's general were raw agent ? they intentionally hamper power transfer to Mujib . it was also Bhutto who too were RAW agent ???*

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## kalu_miah

monitor said:


> *Is it true that three of Yahiya's general were raw agent ? they intentionally hamper power transfer to Mujib . it was also Bhutto who too were RAW agent ???*



I think none of those people were involved with RAW. ISI and RAW were sworn enemy, it is just that ISI was pushed to a corner, made bad irrational moves out of desperation and then finally lost the game.


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## Skies

Skies said:


> *1971 related threads on PDF:*
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/84875-december-16-1971-east-pakistan-bangladesh.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...adesh-urges-pakistan-apology-1971-crimes.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...egations-massive-propoganda-sarmila-bose.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/41456-battles-1971-a.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...mran-demands-apology-pakistan-bangladesh.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/26732-atrocities-1971-civil-war.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/52353-advantages-creation-bangladesh-pakistan.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/20918-separation-east-pakistan-1971-a.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/1870-creation-bangladesh.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/107635-myth-busting-bangladesh-war-1971-a.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/50079-truth-1971-war.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...our-226-indians-role-1971-liberation-war.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-apology-over-armys-wrongdoings-1971-war.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...nts-war-crimes-trials-indian-perspective.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...k-evidence-pakistan-usa-war-crime-1971-a.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/104532-bangladesh-war.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-search-fact-about-killing-pakistan-army.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...al-book-accuses-bengalis-1971-war-crimes.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...nt-view-war-crime-trial-s-not-right-time.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...onsible-1971-break-up-pakistan-musharraf.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-responsible-1971-east-pak-fiasco-says-d.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...971-war-hasina-expresses-gratitude-india.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...ng-taught-about-separation-east-pakistan.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-1971-war-pakistan-vs-india-untold-story.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/19050-book-review-india-doctrine-1947-2007-a.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ologise-bangladesh-atrocities-imran-khan.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...story-exposing-propanganda-telling-truth.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-raw-involvement-east-pakistan-secession.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/110495-mujibs-confusion-bangladeshi-deaths.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...desh-name-major-road-after-indira-gandhi.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ni-soldiers-during-operation-searchlight.html
> 
> 
> [/UnQuote]
> .......................
> 
> Adding three more pertinent threads in this sticky one. If you open new threads on 71 then please put those new links on 71 here to ease the 71-research and help the new comers. And make this sticky thread as the main 71-directory thread that would contain many links on 71.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...on-war-martyrs-would-exceed-30-lac-mamun.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...bureau-ib-r-aw-east-pakistan-1963-1971-a.html
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/192268-1971-war-raw-success.html

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## Musalman

90,000 figure of POW includes Army, civil administration, their families (wife kids etc). A relative of mine 1 year at that time was POW from 1971 to 1974.


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## LaBong

Musalman said:


> 90,000 figure of POW includes Army, civil administration, their families (wife kids etc). A relative of mine 1 year at that time was POW from 1971 to 1974.


 

Army	54,154
Navy	1,381
Air Force	833
Paramilitary including police	22,000
Civilian personnel	12,000
Total:	90,368

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## bigbossman

thanks..i found some good info here


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## Md Akmal

monitor said:


> *Is it true that three of Yahiya's general were raw agent ? they intentionally hamper power transfer to Mujib . it was also Bhutto who too were RAW agent ???*



@I don't know wether his 3 generals were RAW's agents or not ? But there were circumstancial evidences that Yahya did not ordered for final surrender nor he signed any such document. The fact was he delegated the power to the Governor of the then East Pakistan. After the resignation of the Governor naturally it goes to General Niazi. General Niazi said he got the green signal from GHQ. He blamed Maj General Rao Farman Ali for early surrender. Infact Rao Farman Ali from the start of war was negociating with USA for surrender or cease fire. Niazi blamed Roa Farman Ali and questioned who gave him this power.

@ My personal opinion is that during the crisis in East Pakistan most of the Mahajir officers lost their confidence and came to the conclusion that "war with India is useless" so they were much more warried about their personal safety and early return to home. General Niazi was a true patriot but unfortunately he was not properly respected in Pakistan.

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## eastwatch

Md Akmal said:


> 1) I don't know wether his 3 generals were RAW's agents or not ? But there were circumstancial evidences that Yahya did not ordered for final surrender nor he signed any such document. The fact was he delegated the power to the Governor of the then East Pakistan. After the resignation of the Governor naturally it goes to General Niazi. General Niazi said he got the green signal from GHQ. He blamed Maj General Rao Farman Ali for early surrender. Infact Rao Farman Ali from the start of war was negociating with USA for surrender or cease fire. Niazi blamed Roa Farman Ali and questioned who gave him this power.
> 
> 2) My personal opinion is that during the crisis in East Pakistan most of the Mahajir officers lost their confidence and came to the conclusion that "war with India is useless" so they were much more warried about their personal safety and early return to home. General Niazi was a true patriot but unfortunately he was not properly respected in Pakistan.



It is intentional or not, but, you have sent wrong answers to the question 'Monitor' raised in his post. He was not asking about issue of surrender by PA at the end of war. He was asking about the beginning of war when in March 1971 Yahya/Bhutto stopped pursuing a dialogue with Sk. Mujib. Monitor asked if the war was influenced by 3 PA generals who were paid by RAW.

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## Skies

Mujib looks better than his daughter ..

Flickr: Doc Kazi's Photostream

Sheikh Mujib and Bhutto during the latter's visit to Dhaka in 1974. Food Minister Abdul Momen is in the center | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


and

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1208779

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## genmirajborgza786

an insight into the 1971 crisis

barrister Shahida jameel (grand daughter of late prime minister Hussein Shaheed Suhrawardi ) & air commodore fighter M.M Alam of 1965 fame

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## SamranAli

let the bygones be bygones and move on.

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## Al-zakir

^ Good discussion and I agree with Sir M. Alam that we(Bangladesh-Pakistan) should work together, at least in defense to counter enemy India.


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## TopCat

Al-zakir said:


> ^ Good discussion and I agree with Sir M. Alam that we(Bangladesh-Pakistan) should work together, at least in defense to counter enemy India.




International politics and polarization is rapidly changing. It is yet hard to perceive who will be in what side in the years to come. Pakistan basically has no friend in south asia except Bangladesh and if PK want to keep a foot print in south asia it must keep a good term with BD. India is making drastic change in its diplomacy and might come up with a Kashmir solution too. Inviting BKZ is also shift towards that direction. India's willingness to participate with China in deep sea port will be interesting to watch and China is open to that very suggestion. Another thing to watch in Burma. Obama is visiting burma next week and never a US president visit a country with no agenda.

The last thing BD wants at this moment to make enemy with India. Pakistan is our least priority now.

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## pakdefender

bangla buddu was a traitor who was caught for conspiring against the state and released in 1968 ( agartala conspiracy case ) since the political parties were more interested in defaming the armed forces rather than putting a traitor on trial

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## Al-zakir

iajdani said:


> International politics and polarization is rapidly changing. It is yet hard to perceive who will be in what side in the years to come. Pakistan basically has no friend in south asia except Bangladesh and if PK want to keep a foot print in south asia it must keep a good term with BD. India is making drastic change in its diplomacy and might come up with a Kashmir solution too. Inviting BKZ is also shift towards that direction. India's willingness to participate with China in deep sea port will be interesting to watch and China is open to that very suggestion. Another thing to watch in Burma. Obama is visiting burma next week and never a US president visit a country with no agenda.
> 
> The last thing BD wants at this moment to make enemy with India. Pakistan is our least priority now.



I agree with you somewhat but understand this. Indian Hindu never accepted our sovereign existence(Islamic identity). It want us to become it's servant. So If Pakistan goes then we are not there either. We become another Sikkim.

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## Night_Raven

Al-zakir said:


> I agree with you somewhat but understand this. *Indian Hindu never accepted our sovereign existence(Islamic identity). It want us to become it's servant.* So If Pakistan goes then we are not there either. We become another Sikkim.



Since when in Bangladesh's 40 years of existence has "Hindu" India not accepted your existence ? 

It's just your personal insecurity and blind hatred that's evident from your post , nothing more, nothing less.

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## eastwatch

Al-zakir said:


> ^ Good discussion and I agree with Sir M. Alam that we(Bangladesh-Pakistan) should work together, at least in defense to counter enemy India.



India is not our enemy country the way you want others to believe. Rather, it is Pakistan who behaved more than an enemy for a long 22 years. They have killed also many lakhs of people here in 1971. When you guys are so fond of shouting at the killing of500 smugglers at the border, you try to deny those killings. It is a shame.

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## monitor

eastwatch said:


> India is not our enemy country the way you want others to believe. Rather, it is Pakistan who behaved more than an enemy for a long 22 years. They have killed also many lakhs of people here in 1971. When you guys are so fond of shouting at the killing of 500 smugglers at the border, you try to deny those killings. It is a shame.



How they behave like enemy elaborate. how may Benglese were killed by west Pakistani during 1947-1970 just because were Banglaes ? there is no infinitive friends or foe in international relation . what happened in 1971 cannot be a excuse for our relation with Pakistan .

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## eastwatch

monitor said:


> How they behave like enemy elaborate. how may Benglese were killed by west Pakistani during 1947-1970 just because were Banglaes ? there is no infinitive friends or foe in international relation . what happened in 1971 cannot be a excuse for our relation with Pakistan .



What the hell do you want to suggest by asking an elaboration? We are no more Pakistan and BD has nothing to gain from a taliban country. Stop spreading your single track Moududi view. Have I or anyone ever said there were killings by west before 1971? But, they have kept on stealing our money for 22 years, can you deny it? Even the Pakistanis do not deny it, but the Moududis here deny everything! 

Stop preaching like an animated all knowing mullah here and accept the truth that millions of innocent people were purposefully killed by the PA in east pakistan in 1971. When even the politicians and newspapers in Pakistan want their govt to apologise, it is only our mullah ignorants who deny it. Your kind of Talibans have infested Pakistan and are destroying that country. We will not let you do the same to our country.

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## Wickerman

Al-zakir said:


> I agree with you somewhat but understand this. Indian Hindu never accepted our sovereign existence(Islamic identity). It want us to become it's servant. So If Pakistan goes then we are not there either. We become another Sikkim.



If at all India wanted "another Sikkim" out of Bangladesh, then 1971, was your most vulnerable moment, and was India's best opportunity. However, India never did any of that. You guys formed your own government. Agreed there are some issues in the relationships that both India and BD have done wrong, but tell me any country that does not have a problem with another. But to say that India will usurp BD if Pakistan goes, is insecurity of the highest order. Reality is much different. Pakistan isnt going anywhere. BD isnt going anywhere either. And India isnt going anywhere too. You need to drop that insecurity and look at India as another neighboring country with whom you try to develop trade relations. Not as this country that is out to get you. This is Pakistani paranoia infecting your judgement.


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## Zabaniyah

eastwatch said:


> What the hell do you want to suggest by asking an elaboration? We are no more Pakistan and BD has nothing to gain from a taliban country. Stop spreading your single track Moududi view. Have I or anyone ever said there were killings by west before 1971? But, they have kept on stealing our money for 22 years, can you deny it? Even the Pakistanis do not deny it, but the Moududis here deny everything!
> 
> Stop preaching like an animated all knowing mullah here and accept the truth that millions of innocent people were purposefully killed by the PA in east pakistan in 1971. When even the politicians and newspapers in Pakistan want their govt to apologise, it is only our mullah ignorants who deny it. Your kind of Talibans have infested Pakistan and are destroying that country. We will not let you do the same to our country.



It's not millions. Likely to be in hundreds and thousands over the entire course of the war. 



monitor said:


> *How they behave like enemy elaborate. how may Benglese were killed by west Pakistani during 1947-1970 just because were Banglaes ?* there is no infinitive friends or foe in international relation . what happened in 1971 cannot be a excuse for our relation with Pakistan .



*sigh*

Look at it this way: 
The whole thing started off with the language movement, rowdy protests followed and excessive force was used against them (for?) 

After Operation Searchlight, a civil war followed which created 10 million refugees flowing into India. Yes, you read it right; *10 million.* That is not a small number over the course of such a short time. 

What does that tell us about their commanders? 

It tells us that they weren't doing their jobs properly, let alone do so responsibly. Their leaders not only refused to take responsibility, but they refused to share power with Mujib - a fatal mistake Bhutto made. 

End hence, the result. They failed miserably. 

There is a reason why there are international laws regarding human rights and the use of force. 

Another laughable thing is that Yahya Khan was an alcoholic. Imagine that under a drunken leader and the Jimmies going "Islamic brotherhood!" 

They still go by this line. No change whatsoever over the past 40 years. Those guys have been living in a nutshell for all the time. It's a like a missile boat going around in circles, and a miracle that it still didn't blow up into a firecracker. It's a failed ideology. 

They can beat a dead horse all they like. Hey.....FREEDOM OF SPEECH!   

But, so are the Awami League  Nationalism based on culture alone (primarily language in this case) is guaranteed to fail. It's not a sustainable ideology. Nationalism has multiple aspects. This applies no matter which country or culture you are in. 

Now the question is: How does having relations with Pakistan improve Bangladesh's leverage? 

Answer: It may to some extent, but not very significant. Interestingly in fact, even in the eyes of China, Pakistan is of very little consequence. There's a whole bigger ball game out there. It's a jungle out there.... 

The bottom line is that India and China are rising. Some say the latter is the future superpower. They won't stop, they'll keep rising and advancing. 

And it is crucial that we brush shoulders with them. Otherwise, we'd be left behind. Sure, there are challenges, but there are great opportunities as well. 

For Bangladesh right now, the biggest challenge is the government and its implications on the private sector. It must offer an environment favorable to do business in. 

For example: there's been news of a proposal about placing a government administrator to dictate both private and state enterprises, these proposals are very unfavorable. In fact, they're downright idiotic. 
Administrator appointment plan worries FBCCI

Of-course, there are many other issues. We just need a more effective and efficient government. 

As I said, those who refuse to take responsibility for history are doomed to repeat it.


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## Syed Naved

pakdefender said:


> bangla buddu was a traitor who was caught for conspiring against the state and released in 1968 ( agartala conspiracy case ) since the political parties were more interested in defaming the armed forces rather than putting a traitor on trial



oh no again that busterds name. may the almighty bless him hell


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## Skies

71 thread collection:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/84875-december-16-1971-east-pakistan-bangladesh.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...adesh-urges-pakistan-apology-1971-crimes.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...egations-massive-propoganda-sarmila-bose.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/41456-battles-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...mran-demands-apology-pakistan-bangladesh.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/26732-atrocities-1971-civil-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/52353-advantages-creation-bangladesh-pakistan.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/20918-separation-east-pakistan-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/1870-creation-bangladesh.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/107635-myth-busting-bangladesh-war-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/50079-truth-1971-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...our-226-indians-role-1971-liberation-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-apology-over-armys-wrongdoings-1971-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...nts-war-crimes-trials-indian-perspective.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...k-evidence-pakistan-usa-war-crime-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/104532-bangladesh-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-search-fact-about-killing-pakistan-army.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...al-book-accuses-bengalis-1971-war-crimes.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...nt-view-war-crime-trial-s-not-right-time.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...onsible-1971-break-up-pakistan-musharraf.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-responsible-1971-east-pak-fiasco-says-d.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...971-war-hasina-expresses-gratitude-india.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...ng-taught-about-separation-east-pakistan.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-1971-war-pakistan-vs-india-untold-story.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/19050-book-review-india-doctrine-1947-2007-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ologise-bangladesh-atrocities-imran-khan.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...story-exposing-propanganda-telling-truth.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-raw-involvement-east-pakistan-secession.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/110495-mujibs-confusion-bangladeshi-deaths.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...desh-name-major-road-after-indira-gandhi.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ni-soldiers-during-operation-searchlight.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...on-war-martyrs-would-exceed-30-lac-mamun.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...bureau-ib-r-aw-east-pakistan-1963-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/192268-1971-war-raw-success.html

+ 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/220859-mujib-s-memoirs-hamid-mir.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...1776-1971-war-official-pakistani-version.html


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## third eye

Today 41 years ago Indian & Pakistan declared war on each other which culminated in the creation of Bangladesh.

Something both nations have not forgotten nor ever will.

This is not a thread for chest thumping or display of bravado.

Please join me in a prayer for all those who fell, for all those who did not return, for all those who suffered grievous & permanent disabilities for life.

To all those who still languish in prisons on both sides with no hope of return.

To families on both sides who still wait & hope for a miracle.

May the lord give us sanity to resolve our self created ' insurmountable' problems and the resolve never to have to resort to such acts again.

May our leadership show the sagacity to lead us to better relations.

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## sms

**deleted **
wrong thread


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## Icewolf

This incident will never be forgotten in Pakistan.. We will always keep this in our black hearts and may our enemies weaken


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## veekysingh

pure troll thread. Can mods allow me to troll?


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## karan.1970

Icewolf said:


> This incident will never be forgotten in Pakistan.. We will always keep this in our black hearts and may our enemies weaken



You need to brush up on your english skills mate.. Yesterday you called Pakistani govt as terrorists.. Today you are saying Pakistanis have black hearts.. 

Either you have major problems with English Language or are a false flag Bharti who is abusing Pakistan on the sly

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## Kompromat

veekysingh said:


> pure troll thread. Can mods allow me to troll?



Only if you want a week long holiday ?


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## veekysingh

Icewolf said:


> This incident will never be forgotten in Pakistan.. We will always keep this in our black hearts and may our enemies weaken



aye aye mate. but looks like god is not in ur side. He is working with us. And see our enemy aka Pakistan is even worst situation now then they were at 71. Truth alone prevails. JAI hind



Aeronaut said:


> Only if you want a week long holiday ?



oooooo. Nope. I got work.


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## Icewolf

veekysingh said:


> aye aye mate. but looks like god is not in ur side. He is working with us. And see our enemy aka Pakistan is even worst situation now then they were at 71. Truth alone prevails. JAI hind
> 
> 
> 
> oooooo. Nope. I got work.



and india is in the same condtion it was in 1971... do u want me to bing up details


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## Kompromat

Post all, BD related stuff here.

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## Roybot

Icewolf said:


> This incident will never be forgotten in Pakistan.. *We will always keep this in our black hearts* and may our enemies weaken



Honestly?


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## ajtr




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## veekysingh

Icewolf said:


> and india is in the same condtion it was in 1971... do u want me to bing up details



pls enlighten us mate. as far I see after 71 we got Sikkim and siachin. Became suppaa dupaa nuclear power. Have a better place in world. More rich, more educated , more powerful.


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## Icewolf

veekysingh said:


> pls enlighten us mate. as far I see after 71 we got Sikkim and siachin. Became suppaa dupaa nuclear power. Have a better place in world. More rich, more educated , more powerful.



Poverty HDI toilets corruption infrastructure the same no?


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## third eye

_*I am reproducing an incident that followed alomst 38 years after the war. The father of the reciepient of India's highest award met with the man who faced his son in battle on 16 Dec 71 - the fateful day his son died.

This has been posted by me before,I do it again for those who have not served in uniform to read & realize war is not just guts & glory. Those who fight it are humans too. 

Its a long read but please spare a moment to read the humility and gentle manliness of the Pak Brig.*_

Brig ML Khetrapal: My son goes to Sanawar, a school up in the Himalayas. It used to be a Military school (154 years old) and like any old school, Sanawar has its fair share of heroes amongst its old students.

One such hero from that school that I want to write about is 2nd Lieutenant Arun Khetarpal, son of Brigadier M.L. Khetarpal.. He was born on 14 October 1950, in Pune, Maharashtra. He was commissioned in the 17 Poona Horse on 13 June 1971, just a few months before the Indo-Pakistan 1971 war. The story of his heroism is as follows: 

During the 1971 Indo-Pak War, the 47 Infantry Brigade, with the 17 Poona Horse under command, was ordered to establish a bridge-head across the Basantar river in Shakargarh sector. The 47 Inf. Bde.completed the task by 2100 hours on December 15th. It was now for the engineers to breach the Pakistani mine-fields and make a safe lane for the induction of the 17 Poona Horse in support of the bridge-head. While the engineers were half way through their task, the Indian troops at the bridge-head reported alarming activity of the Pakistani armour.

They requested immediate tank support. But the mine-field had been cleared only partially by that time. At this critical juncture, the 17 Poona Horse decided to push through the mine-field come what may. By first light on December 16th, the regiment established a link-up between the armour and the infantry at the bridge-head.

At 0800 hours, the Pakistanis made a counter-attack with an armoured regiment, under the cover of a smoke-screen. The target was the regimental pivot at Jarpal. As the Indians troops were heavily outnumbered, the Commander of 'B' Squadron requested reinforcement. At that time, 2nd Lt. Khetarpal was positioned close to the squadron with his troops in two tanks. He answered the call and moved out to face the Pakistani attack. On the way, his troops came under fire from Pakistani strong points and recoilless gun nests, in the bridge-head zone.

2nd Lt. Khetarpal fiercely attacked these strong-points, over-ran Pakistani defences and captured many Pakistani soldiers and recoilless guns at gun point. During one of these attacks, the commander of his second tank was killed on the spot leaving him alone. But he continued attack on the Pakistani strongholds single-handed, until all the Pakistani positions were overwhelmed. He then raced to the 'B' Squadron position. By the time he reached there, the Pakistani tankswere on the retreat. He pursued and destroyed one of these tanks. The 'B' Squadron Commander could persuade him to fall back in line after great difficulty.

The Pakistanis soon reformed for a second attack. This time they chose the sector held by 2nd Lt. Arun Khetarpal and two other Officers, for the main attack. The Pakistani employed a complete armoured squadron against these three tanks in order to achieve a breakthrough. A fierce tank battle followed. As many as ten Pakistani tanks were destroyed and of these 2nd Lieutenant Khetarpal alone destroyed four.. In the thick of the battle, two of the three Indian tanks became
casualties-one was hit and another suffered mechanical failure.

The third tank, which was 2nd Lt. Khetarpal's tank, also received a shot and burst into flames. The Commander of the tank troops ordered 2nd Lt. Khetarpal to abandon the burning tank. But realising the useful role of his tank in preventing a breakthrough he communicated the following message to his Commander: "No Sir, I will not abandon my tank. My gun is still working and I will get these guys."

Then he set about destroying the remaining Pakistani tanks. The last Pakistani tank which he shot was barely 100 metres from his position.At this stage his tank received a second hit. The brave Officer met his death denying the Pakistani the intended breakthrough. For his conspicuous gallantry in the face of the Pakistani, 2nd Lt. Arun Khetarpal was honoured with the highest wartime gallantry medal, the Param Vir Chakra, posthumously.

He was the youngest Indian to win this highest award. The Indo-Pakistan war of 1971, nearly 38 years ago is history for most of us.

However a strange sequel was to follow for the Khetarpal family.

Many years later, India and Pakistan established 'people to people' contacts between both the nations. This was also known as 'Twin Track Diplomacy'.

Brigadier M.L. Khetarpal, father of 2nd Lt. Khetarpal started receiving messages that a certain Brigadier from the Pakistani army was keen to meet him. However since he did not know this particular Brigadier, Brigadier M.L. Khetarpal did not do anything to encourage the meeting.

In 2001, Brigadier M.L. Khetarpal now 81 years old felt a strong desire to visit his birthplace, at Sargodha, now in Pakistan. It was a wish that he thought that would never materialize, but when he voiced it to some friends engaged in the Twin Track Diplomacy, they arranged all his papers, visas, travel and staying arrangements in Pakistan so that he could go for the visit.

At Lahore airport, Brigadier M.L. Khetarpal was met by Brigadier Khawja Mohammad Naser, who took it upon himself to be Brigadier M.L.Khetarpal host and guide. Brigadier Naser really went out of way to ensure that Brigadier M.L. Khetarpal had a satisfying and nostalgic visit to his old house in Sargodha. Upon his return to Lahore he was once again the guest of Brigadier Naser for three days. 

Brigadier M.L. Khetarpal was overwhelmed by the extreme kindness,deference, courtesy and respect bestowed upon him by Brigadier Naser,all the members of his family and his many servants. As the countdown for the departure progressed, the bonds of friendship between the guests and the host grew stronger and stronger. However Brigadier Khetarpal felt that something was amiss but could not make out what it was. Was it the long silences that punctuated their animated conversation or was it the look of compassion in the eyes of the women in the family. He could not make out.

However what was certain was that he would always remember the hospitality, warmth and affection of this Pakistani family who treated him as someone very very special.

Finally at the last night before Brigadier M.L.. Khetarpal's departure, Brigadier Naser said 'Sir there is something that I wanted to tell you for many years but I did not know how to get through to you. Finally fate has intervened and sent you to me as an honoured guest. The last few days we have become close to one another and that has made my task even more difficult. It is regarding your son who is of course a national hero in India. However on that fateful day, your son and I were soldiers, unknown to one another, fighting for the respect and safety of our respective countries. I regret to tell you that your son died in my hands. Arun's courage was exemplary and he moved his tank with fearless courage and daring, totally unconcerned
about his safety. Tank casualties were very high till finally there were just two of us left facing one another. We both fired simultaneously. It was destined that I was to live and he was to die. It is only later that I got to know how young he was and who he was.

We are trained to fight and kill without mercy or remorse. We do in war what we have to without thinking too much about it. However we are humans too and sometimes war takes a personal turn and makes an impact on the inner self..

I had all along thought that I would ask your forgiveness, but in telling the story I realize that there is nothing to forgive. Instead I salute your son for what he did at such a young age and I salute you too, because I know how he grew into such a young man. In the end it is character and values that matter."

Brigadier M.L. Khetarpal was silent as he did not know how to react. To be faced with the person who killed his son, and also to be enjoying his hospitality and being his guest is a confusing feeling.However Brigadier M.L. Khetarpal immediately realized that Brigadier Naser was genuinely wanting, in some way to compensate for something that he did only in the line of duty. The soldier must do what he has been trained to do unhesitatingly, and with full resolve and determination.

Both the Brigadiers retired for the night deep in thought. *There are never any victors in war, both sides lose and it is the families that have to pay the price and suffer the most. As someone once said ' Wars are created by politicians, compounded by bureaucrats and fought by soldiers.*

The next day photographs were taken and Brigadier M.L. Khetarpal returned back to Delhi. Later the photos reached Delhi along with a note from Brigadier Naser that said:

With Warmest regards and utmost sincerity, To: Brigadier M..L. Khetarpal, father of Shaheed Second Lieutenant Arun Khetarpal, PVC,who stood like an unsurmountable rock, between the victory and failure, of the counter attack by the 'SPEARHEADS' 13 LANCERS on 16 December 1971 in the battle of "Bara Pind' as we call it and battle of "Basantar' as 17 Poona Horse remembers.

Khawja Mohammad Naser, 13 Lancers
02 March 2001
Lahore, Pakistan

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## veekysingh

Icewolf said:


> Poverty HDI toilets corruption infrastructure the same no?



Indian have higher HDI Then Pakistan, higher per Capra income then pak , corruption is thr but not that bad that our railway can't work. better if you talk facts. Not emotions.


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## animelive

Icewolf said:


> This incident will never be forgotten in Pakistan.. We will always keep this in *our black hearts* and may our enemies weaken



Oh my, looks like your black heart still didn't learn anything from that incident


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## Skies

Based on the proves and premises founded by me, I opine that:

-Everyone knows that BAL is a stooge of India now, and it was always.

-The same BAL was also the stooge of India in 71.

-And India acted behind 71 scenario, and manipulated the greedy BAL (proves are 69's Agartala Conspiracy, involvement of RAW in 70s election, ethnic cleansing, other anti-state activities and todays Indias hegemony on BD prove that the plan for Independent Bangladesh was prepared before 71).

-So BD's demand for independence (Muktir Shongram) was not natural but man made (Even the Jai Bangla derived from Jai Hind).

-The call for independent Bangla (ebarer shongram shadhinotar shongram  an act of treason from the perspective of Pakistan as a country) on 7th March's speech compelled Pakistan Army to start operation searchlight (the 25 March's killing).

-And ultimately, 25 March's killing by Pakistan Army formally brought (Declaration of independence by Zia) the full-scale war.

-And at the last moment of the war, with the help of Indian Army, Bangladesh was liberated, otherwise, liberation was impossible in short time.

-Jamati Islami was against the liberation war in 71 (they opted for united Pakistan, no problem in my opinion, but deserve punishment if they are guilty of killing innocent people based on equal and fair trial and true evidences).

-But the so-called pro-independent Awami League made (actually Dalal of India) alliance with JI in 96, because Jamati Islami (JI) accepted the independence of Bangladesh after liberation and still goes in the election as a democratic party.

-In 71, gullible Bangladeshis people fought against some unfair treatments, disparity and killing of 25s night by stupid West Pakistani administration, not for secular Bangladesh.

-Today, as a part of Indian ploy, both India and BAL are trying to establish secular Bangladesh (pre-planned Indian doctrine) and bring the division among peaceful Bangladeshis.

-Islam teaches us the fair treatment to any non-Muslims and, by nature, Bangladeshis are tolerant and friendly to the all people of other religions.

-But, unfortunately, this is the BAL government which always brings the controversial issues that hurt the 85%-90% Muslims believe and create unnecessary divisions in peaceful people and hinder the national progress. 

-Since, West Pakistan was in the role of government of 71, they should take the responsibility of killing of innocent people in Bangladesh (stupid reaction), but we should also address the roles of greedy BAL and India before 71.

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## Musalman

> Since, West Pakistan was in the role of government of 71, they should take the responsibility of killing of innocent people in Bangladesh (stupid reaction), but we should also address the roles of greedy BAL and India before 71.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ast-pakistan-bangladesh-60.html#ixzz2F1vGotNR


This I think is the most balanced conclusion and yes "IF" Pakistani government killed people in 1971 it should apologize.


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## DarkPrince

ajtr said:


> ]



kaki u r a joker

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## Anubis

What about the fact that the then Pakistani gov. totally ignored to administer Pakistan as per the Lahore Resolution........If the government had adopted Mujib's Six Points......the war would never had happened.....regional autonomy should have been enforced if they wanted keep Pakistan intact.


The constitution should provide for a Federation of Pakistan in its true sense based on the Lahore Resolution and the parliamentary form of government with supremacy of a Legislature directly elected on the basis of universal adult franchise.
The federal government should deal with only two subjects: Defence and Foreign Affairs, and all other residual subjects should be vested in the federating states.
Two separate, but freely convertible currencies for two wings should be introduced; or if this is not feasible, there should be one currency for the whole country, but effective constitutional provisions should be introduced to stop the flight of capital from East to West Pakistan. Furthermore, a separate Banking Reserve should be established and separate fiscal and monetary policy be adopted for East Pakistan.
The power of taxation and revenue collection should be vested in the federating units and the federal centre would have no such power. The federation would be entitled to a share in the state taxes to meet its expenditures.
There should be two separate accounts for the foreign exchange earnings of the two wings; the foreign exchange requirements of the federal government should be met by the two wings equally or in a ratio to be fixed; indigenous products should move free of duty between the two wings, and the constitution should empower the units to establish trade links with foreign countries.
East Pakistan should have a separate militia or paramilitary force.
Could any of my Pakistani brothers point out the parts they would object to!

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## Invincible_at_Sea

A rare video of Bhutto





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=485932298118077


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## asad71

A comment on the topic header. "From West Pakistan to Pakistan". There would be no Pakistan of today if there was no West Pakistan born out of the project we Bengalees had undertaken for separate homelands for the Muslims of SA. It was us who had put forward the idea of the Two Nation Theory and field-tested with the division of Bengal 1905-11.

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## animelive

COMBAN said:


> A rare video of Bhutto
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=485932298118077



The more i keep watching this, the funnier it gets

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## Hindustani

COMBAN said:


> A rare video of Bhutto
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=485932298118077




Reminds me of that Loony Toon character, Foghorn Leghorn

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## animelive

Hindustani said:


> Reminds me of that Loony Toon character, Foghorn Leghorn

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## monitor

_*Map of strength in 1971 .*_

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## Skies

71 threads collection and research:

*General Discussions threads on 71:*

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/84875-december-16-1971-east-pakistan-bangladesh.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...adesh-urges-pakistan-apology-1971-crimes.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/41456-battles-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...mran-demands-apology-pakistan-bangladesh.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/26732-atrocities-1971-civil-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/52353-advantages-creation-bangladesh-pakistan.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/20918-separation-east-pakistan-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/1870-creation-bangladesh.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/107635-myth-busting-bangladesh-war-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/50079-truth-1971-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...our-226-indians-role-1971-liberation-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-apology-over-armys-wrongdoings-1971-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...nts-war-crimes-trials-indian-perspective.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...k-evidence-pakistan-usa-war-crime-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/104532-bangladesh-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-search-fact-about-killing-pakistan-army.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...al-book-accuses-bengalis-1971-war-crimes.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...nt-view-war-crime-trial-s-not-right-time.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...onsible-1971-break-up-pakistan-musharraf.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-responsible-1971-east-pak-fiasco-says-d.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...971-war-hasina-expresses-gratitude-india.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...ng-taught-about-separation-east-pakistan.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-1971-war-pakistan-vs-india-untold-story.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/19050-book-review-india-doctrine-1947-2007-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ologise-bangladesh-atrocities-imran-khan.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...story-exposing-propanganda-telling-truth.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-raw-involvement-east-pakistan-secession.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/110495-mujibs-confusion-bangladeshi-deaths.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...desh-name-major-road-after-indira-gandhi.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ni-soldiers-during-operation-searchlight.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...on-war-martyrs-would-exceed-30-lac-mamun.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...bureau-ib-r-aw-east-pakistan-1963-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/192268-1971-war-raw-success.html

+ 

*Pakistani Version:*

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/220859-mujib-s-memoirs-hamid-mir.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...1776-1971-war-official-pakistani-version.html

+

*Evidence search:*

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...bureau-ib-r-aw-east-pakistan-1963-1971-a.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/192268-1971-war-raw-success.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...egations-massive-propoganda-sarmila-bose.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/221626-book-bangladesh-legacy-blood.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...cy-confession-what-does-mean-our-history.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...conspiracy-case-not-false-deputy-speaker.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...apparent-noticed-unnoticed-2.html#post3709554

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/234547-execution-retrial.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/152449-khaleda-involved-bdr-mutiny-hasina-4.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ism-bangladesh-spotlight-shahbagh-square.html

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## animelive

1971 RAW success? this is pathetic, it was our success, our struggle, maybe other had benefits from it but we won. Never have i seen people of their own country being so insecure and confused, as to give all the credits of a hard fought war with blood and sweat to a foreign country's secret agency and disrespect the birth of our nation. Makes me want to puke, surely the freedom fighters who fought the war didn't expect or imagine such sons in the next generation of this country.

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## KRAIT

animelive said:


> 1971 RAW success? this is pathetic, it was our success, our struggle, maybe other had benefits from it but we won. Never have i seen people of their own country being so insecure and confused, as to give all the credits of a hard fought war with blood and sweat to a foreign country's secret agency and disrespect the birth of our nation. Makes me want to puke, surely the freedom fighters who fought the war didn't expect or imagine such sons in the next generation of this country.


All the hard work was done by Mukti Bahini, we only provided help. India moved in when Pakistan attacked us.

It was just help to Bangladeshis and protecting ourselves from the enemy. It was MB that made West Pakistan bleed the most.

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## Jackdaws

KRAIT said:


> All the hard work was done by Mukti Bahini, we only provided help. India moved in when Pakistan attacked us.
> 
> It was just help to Bangladeshis and protecting ourselves from the enemy. It was MB that made West Pakistan bleed the most.



Second that. MB and Indian Armed Forces complemented each other. A friendly population greeted India as liberators.


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## idune

Jackdaws said:


> Second that. MB and Indian Armed Forces complemented each other. A friendly population greeted India as liberators.



That was then, today indian force kill Bangladeshis everyday. And there is new trend indian forces abduct bangladeshis from inside border and then kill them to claim "self defense". Glorification india faded by 43 years long indian aggression. We live in present and in it, 43 years old past has no relevance today.

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## KRAIT

idune said:


> That was then, today indian force kill Bangladeshis everyday. And there is new trend indian forces abduct bangladeshis from inside border and then kill them to claim "self defense". Glorification india faded by 43 years long indian aggression. We live in present and in it, 43 years old past has no relevance today.


Those who forget and don't learn from history are bound to repeat it.

BD people are killed because of people on both sides.


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## shoaibsyed15

Pakistan zindabaad


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## kalu_miah

1971 Mukti Bahini war documents lost! [Archive] - Siasat.pk Forums

(http://www.untoldfacts.com/south-as...ures/indo-pakistani_war_1971_mukti_bahini.jpg
(http://www.untoldfacts.com/south-asia/1971-mukti-bahini-war-documents-lost/)


1971 Mukti Bahini war documents lost! (http://www.untoldfacts.com/south-asia/1971-mukti-bahini-war-documents-lost/)

Incredible
Unbelievable! Incredible! Four decades or nearly 39 years have gone by this time for Bangladeshis to know the news is a fishy matter. Possibly it would have remained in the dark for another long time, how long difficult to imagine, had there been no program for reception for the freedom fighters of Bangladesh in Kolkata would be planned.
Evidences
The Times of India (TOI) published the news of destroyed documents at Calcutta (now Kolkata) Head Quarters at the Fort William soon after the war ended. General Jacob came to know about shredding the files with all documents as he enquired for the documents soon after he joined as the Eastern Command Chief in August 1974. That was 36 years ago. He kept the information to himself for all these years to disclose it now, not voluntarily but otherwise. But as the BBC Bengali Service Radio reporting from Kolkata on the 9th May aired an observation of another retired General about shredding off the documents. That was not covered in the TOI 9 May news. This General stated that the classified documents possibly had many facts that might in future seriously harm India - Pakistan relations, if declassified later on, and so were destroyed under order from Delhi. He did not elaborate neither did General Jacob say anything further.
Be these facts as are by now known in sketchy detail we may have some clues into the truth of the incredible matter whatever was published. The May 9 TOI issue had the news like this: The history of the 1971 India Pakistan war will never be fully written. Most of the official records of the war that led to the liberation of Bangladesh have been destroyed Authoritative Army sources said all records held at the Eastern Command in Kolkata, were destroyed immediately after the war. The 11 May TOI news further added, Senior army officers serving and retired are not surprised that official records of the 1971 war have been destroyed, particularly those related to the creation of Mukti BahiniThe records would have revealed the involvement of the Indian Army in then East Pakistan much before the war had been officially declared in December 1971.it must have been under instruction from the government.

Delhi asked Kolkata
Delhi asked Calcutta to destroy the documents immediately after the war ended on the 16th December 1971 in matters of raising the Mukti Bahini or freedom fighters in many camps spread all over India, organization by Indian army units for their training to fight the Pakistan army inside East Pakistan, putting the Mukti Bahini in combative action, particularly, during March to December 1971, etc. The thesis advanced being that those documents, if made known to Pakistan at any time afterwards, would have adverse effects and might deteriorate relations between the two enemy neighbors at daggers drawn since the very days of 1947 and now going on in the same pattern for over 62 years since then. That was exactly what one retired Lieutenant General then in 1971 a Captain and a Colonel of Indian army who claimed to have been inside Bangladesh long before the war began. This was quite likely, and that is why Delhi asked for their shredding and possibly destroyed for good in bonfire.
Who else but Indira Gandhi
But then the question arises who exactly in Delhi directed Calcutta to do the job and keep that in secrecy for decades. Could it be anybody except the centre of power, the then Prime Minister, Indira Gandhi? Could the Chief of Army Manekshaw do the elimination bit all on his own the materials being otherwise internationally valuable war documents of 1971? The defense Minister Jagjivan Ram? How could he dare to do so not only being the subordinate one to Indira but also native of the scheduled caste or the untouchable minister? The other point that must come up, was there was any written formal order from Delhi? Thats not known as yet, possibly there were none and no way to know that precisely now for the matter is four decades old and the big players in the Great Game is already gone and passed away to the after world. Because in matters of such delicate issue involving another neighboring sovereign country whose destruction and dismemberment had been the goal of Indian high caste rulers in all likely would not keep any written record of the matter for future to know and make judgment on the PMs psyche, attitude of the Congress and the administration. Because, as is well known it was her serious ego to dismember Pakistan by any means no matter how costly or foul those could have been. One must recall her determination in the matter in her 16th December 1971 evening straight forward comment after the war victory news given in the Parliament speech and brief comment made to the press immediately afterwards in exact verbatim: HAZAR SALO KA BADLA LE LIE- we have avenged the defeat of One thousand years. 

Morarji Desai on 71 war
Morarji Desai the then oldest political leader and Deputy and later on Prime Minister of India and Jawaharlals close friend went all way out to state in public so much so that the war had been willed and by provocation engineered by Indira. He further went on to disclose that while the Indian army men in civilian dress had been fighting and five thousand of them gave lives in nine months between March and December 1971 not in formal war but outside declared formal war, the then Chief of Indian army Manekshaw told bluntly to the PM Indira that they must not give lives like that inside East Pakistan; they would prefer to fight in formal war (See, M. Rahman & N. Hasan, Iron Bars of Freedom, London 1980, pp.108-09). These are some of the available facts I have with me; there must have many other facts of more crucial and hegemonic feature that Indira, in particular, had had in view, and so considered appropriate to ask for their elimination from any record or even a trace that could have been there in any formal written order given in any file or in any document whatsoever.

Acrimony with no substance
On the 10th May evening BBC provided some other clues in the matter. The Opposition, particularly the BJP has asked for inquiry and let the people know the truth about the documents fate. This is simply to put fact straight that the Congress had been in Delhis power at that time; Indira had been the P.M. and historic heroine in the Great Game between the two rivals both of whom owe to the long past not only for war, fame and rivalry but also psychological warfare all the time. Had the BJP been then in power and the same thing happened, certainly the Congress now would make the same chorus for inquiry and report open to public. Undoubtedly the row is certain to keep the political air charged with the matter until how long it is difficult to predict at this stage. The issue may be a good point for political show down in the field ahead.
Loser Bangladesh
I am sure Pakistan may take the scope to score some points against Indian hegemony not only for her but also for all other smaller Indian neighbors. Bangladesh seems to incur the biggest loss in terms of self dignity and sovereignty for the main reason that the 1971 war was virtually turned into the India-Pakistan war, India won and Pakistan defeated, having no place of Bangladesh freedom fighters in the war except lip service and eyewash though many had valiantly fought then in 1971. The reception being arranged for the freedom fighters would be no make up of losses of Bangladesh already incurred in the fishy shredding off of the valuable historic documents lost in Kolkata Indian Army Eastern Command Head Quarter amazingly in top secrecy.

http://www.untoldfacts.com/south-asia/1971-mukti-bahini-war-documents-lost/

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## ShahidT

here is western clip around 70-71 showing their perspective of what the ground situation looked like. the refugee camp with the little children really struck me. it should have never come to that, that they would be forced to live like that away from their homeland. but rather than pointing blame, can we not just realize that mistakes were made in how we all handled it? that its time to move on, reconcile our differences and build a bright future without any scope for such misunderstandings?

if we keep such feelings in our heart and in dua, there is no doubt that pakistan and bangladesh will prosper and be on brotherly terms again. our history is that of a family, and no matter how grave the mistakes, family cannot remain naraaz and judaa in spirit forever with each other. we will come to terms and learn to love each other again, it is only a matter of time which is in our hands.

India - Pakistan Refugees (1971) - YouTube

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## kalu_miah

@Loki I propose to merge this thread with 1971 related sticky thread.


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## Hellraiser007

Interesting fact revealed by the Hamid Bashani ,that even the pakistani elite wanted to get separated from poor , overpopulated and prone to disaster land of BD.


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## monitor

* THE EVENTS IN EAST PAKISTAN, 1971*
The postponement of the Constituent Assembly came as a shattering disillusionment to the Awami League and their supporters throughout East Pakistan. It was seen as a betrayal and as proof of the determination of the army and of the West Pakistan authorities to deny them the fruits of their electoral victory.

Sheikh Mujibur Rahman's reaction was to call a five-day general strike (hartal) throughout East Pakistan. In a statement on 2 March, he said 'In this critical hour it is the sacred duty of each and every Bengali in every walk of life, including government employees, not to cooperate with anti-people forces and instead to do everything in their power to foil the conspiracy against Bangladesh'. The response was complete. Normal life was paralysed. Transport and communications ceased. All factories, offices and shops were closed. Any who attempted to open them were roughly handled by Awami League vigilantes. The streets were filled with marching, chanting, protesting processions.

At first the army tried to assert their authority and this resulted in Dacca, Khulna, Jessore and elsewhere in a number of clashes between them and demonstrators and looters, in which the army opened fire on unarmed civilians. The Pakistan authorities later stated that a total of 172 persons had been killed in this period, but some of them were killed in intercommunal clashes.

As from March 3, the army were ordered to return to their cantonments and remained there until March 25. The Pakistan authorities say that their purpose was to avoid further clashes during the period of negotiation. Some have suggested that the army were holding their fire until they were ready to strike, but this seems unlikely as few, if any, units were flown into East Pakistan between 4 and 25 March. Whatever the reason for the withdrawal, it had the effect of keeping down the violence in a period of extreme tension.

Apart from some serious riots in Chittagong on and after the night of 3 March, and some less severe incidents on the same day at Jessore and Khulna, there was remarkably little communal violence during the hartal. The events at Chittagong on the night of 3/4 March are described as follow in the Pakistan White Paper:

'At Chittagong, violent mobs led by Awami League storm troopers attacked the Wireless Colony and several other localities, committing wanton acts of loot, arson, killing and rape. In one locality (Ferozeshah Colony), 700 houses were set on fire and their inmates including men, women and children were burnt to death. Those who tried to flee, were either killed or seriously wounded. Apart from those burnt alive, whose bodies were found later, over 300 persons were killed or wounded on 3 and 4 March.'1

According to information received from foreign nationals in Chittagong, which is believed to be reliable, the incident began when Bengali demonstrators passed in procession through Bihari areas in order to make the Biharis keep to the hartal. The demonstrators were fired upon by Biharis, and a serious riot followed in which people were killed on both sides and a substantial number of Bihari houses were burnt. The number killed on both sides may have reached 200. It is to be noted that by giving a joint estimate of 300 for killed and wounded, the White Paper does not give any estimate of the number of deaths. The rioting continued sporadically for a number of days until order was restored by the Awami League on orders from Sheikh Mujibur Rahman.

On March 3, President Yahya Khan invited 121eaders of the main political groups in the newly elected National Assembly to meet at Dacca on 10 March in an effort to solve the crisis. Sheikh Mujibur rejected the invitation the same evening and started issuing a series of instructions or' directives' to implement a' non-violent and non-cooperation movement '. These included an injunction not to pay taxes.

At his press conference on 2 March, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman stated that the Awami League would hold a public meeting at Dacca on 7 March where he would' outline a programme for achieving the right of self-determination for the people of Bengal'.2 This phrase was, of course, an allusion to the principle of self-determination of peoples under the Charter of the United Nations. The general expectation was that he would then declare the independence of Bangladesh. Perhaps to avert this, President Yahya Khan in an address to the nation on 6 March announced that the National Assembly would meet on 25 March. He added the warning:

'Let me make it absolutely clear that no matter what happens, as long as I am in command of the Pakistan Armed Forces and Head of the State, I will ensure complete and absolute integrity of Pakistan. Let there be no mistake on this point. I have a duty towards millions of people of East and West Pakistan to preserve this country. They expect this from me and I shall not fail them.'

On 7 March. Sheikh Mujibur replied by putting forward four demands which had to be accepted before the Awami League would consider attending the National Assembly. These were:

(I) immediate withdrawal of martial law;

(2) immediate withdrawal of alllnilitary personnel to their barracks ;

(3) an official enquiry into army killings in East Pakistan;

(4) immediate transfer of power to the elected representatives of the people (i.e. before the National Assembly met).

A fifth demand was added later that reinforcements of army units from West Pakistan must cease.

The first four demands were in effect a demand that President Yahya Khan should accept the then status quo. According to the Awami League representatives these demands were never in terms rejected. It was clear, however, that for President Yahya Khan to have implemented formally the first and fourth demands would have amounted to a complete surrender. The second was already in force and the third was accepted in principle, though agreement was never reached on the form of the enquiry. The fifth demand, of course, was not accepted.

As from 7 March, the general strike was replaced by a 'return to normal. under what amounted in fact, though not in name, to a provisional government by the Awami League. The civil service, police. even the judges acknowledged the authority of their' directives'. The new governor, General Tikka Khan was unable at that time to find anyone prepared to swear him into office. Gradually the shops, banks and offices began to open again. Some acts of violence did of course occur but, contrary to the contention of the Pakistan Government in their White Paper3, the Awami League leaders were in general successful in maintaining the non-violent character of the resistance. Indeed, even in the White Paper the only killings alleged to have occurred between 6 and 24 March were:

(a) the killing of a demonstrator by a shopkeeper whose shop was being attacked at Khulna on 6 March; 

(b) the killing of two escaping prisoners by police at Comilla on 12 March, and 

the killing of 3 people by the army when barricades were formed at Joydevpur on 19 March. (At the time, Bengali police estimated that about 15 civilians were killed by the army in this incident.4)

Not a single person is alleged to have been killed by mobs or by supporters of the Awami League between those dates.5

The Awami League leaders were determined to maintain the policy of non-violence. Several incidents bear witness to this. It is reported that order was restored in Chittagong at the beginning of March by a Commission sent from Dacca. In mid-March some young Awami League supporters set up check-points on the approaches to Dacca airport in order to search fugitives to West Pakistan to see that they were not taking large sums of money or jewelry with them. This led to one case of violence with the victim being taken to hospital. The check-points were dismantled on personal orders from Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. The Awami League leaders knew they had nothing to gain and everything to lose from violence, as it could only lead to severe repression by the army. There is no doubt that they were remarkably successful in this. The Anglican Bishop of Dacca gives the following description, which tallies with many other similar reports: 

'I left Dacca by road at 5.30 a.m. on March I, and travelled safely and uneventfully to Khulna. That evening I learnt on the wireless that there had been some hooliganism in Dacca and several non-Bengali shops had been looted, but that Sheikh Mujibur Rahman had used his personal influence to stop the trouble. I also heard that on Monday there was to be a 'hartal' in Dacca, and on Tuesday there was to be a three day 'hartal' throughout the province. On the Monday I travelled some 70 miles safely and uneventfully. During the 'hartal' my car was taken back to Dacca with two Scottish visitors, and took two days for the journey, because the 'hartal' only stopped at 2.00 p.m. each day. They arrived in Dacca safely and uneventfully. Thereafter up till the 17th March I was travelling by train, road and river, passing through six districts, and I travelled in the utmost peace and security. None of the people whom I spoke to on my way seemed to have any anxiety about the situation.

There was, it is true, a non-cooperation movement going on at the time. ...It could be said that the de facto government of the country was then in the hands of Sheikh Mujibur. But to speak of a break-down of law and order is a great exaggeration. There was both law and order. The non-cooperation, apart from the one incident in Dacca mentioned above, was being strictly non-violent. ...' 

We do not suggest that there were no other acts of violence during this period. There is evidence to show that attacks were made on non-Bengalis in Rangpur during the week ending March 13, and at Saidpur on March 24, during which shops and properties were burnt and a number of people killed. But considering the state of tension which prevailed, the extent of the violence was surprisingly restricted. Students and Awami League supporters were, however, preparing themselves for an eventual armed conflict. Many accounts have been given on the Pakistani side of looting of arms and ammunition and preparation of petrol and hand-made bombs manufactured from stolen chemicals. While the army remained in their cantonments, they were subjected to a blockade by Awami League supporters, so that fresh rations and other civilian supplies were prevented from reaching them. This action added to the fury of the army attack when it came.

On March 15 President Yahya Khan flew again to Dacca to hold constitutional talks with Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. Leaders of various West Pakistan parties arrived later in Dacca to join ill the talks. The Pakistan Government's version of these talks is given in their White Paper.6

The Bangladesh Government have not yet published an official account of the negotiations. The fullest account has been given by Mr. Rehman Sobhan, an adviser to Sheikh Mujibur Rahman on constitutional and economic policy.7

According to the Pakistan White Paper, by 20 March President Yahya Khan had provisionally agreed to make a proclamation providing for an interim constitution until a new constitution had been drawn up by the National Assembly. Under the interim constitution, Yahya Khan was to continue as President and Head of State under the 1962 Constitution with a Cabinet of Ministers selected from representatives of the political parties of East and West Pakistan; the powers of the central legislature were to be as provided in the 1962 Constitution save for' certain limitations and modifications to be agreed upon with respect to the Province of East Pakistan' ; Provincial Governors were to be appointed by the President and Provisional Cabinets appointed from the members of the Provincial or National Assemblies to aid and advise the Governors; martial law was to be revoked as from the day the Provincial Cabinets took office, but if ever it appeared to the President that a situation had arisen in which the government of a province could not be carried on, the President was to be able to assume to himself the executive government of the province. All this was to be subject to the agreement of other political leaders and to the 'all-important question of legal validity '. This referred to an objection raised by President Yahya Khan's advisers that if martial law was revoked, the instrument establishing the Central and Provisional Government would have no legal validity; 'a constitutional vacuum would therefore be created in the country '. Considering the number of constitutional irregularities which had already occurred in the short history of the state of Pakistan8, this objection showed a surprising degree of constitutional sensitivity. Mujibur Rahman's legal expert, Dr. Kamal Hossein,9 was convinced that there was no validity in the objection. He suggested, and it was agreed, that the opinion should be sought of the leading Pakistan constitutional lawyer, Mr. A. K. Brohi10. Mr. Brohi's opinion supported the view of the Awami League that the objection was invalid. He advised that a precedent was to be found in the method of transferring power from the British Government at the time of Independence. According to the Awami League representatives, this opinion was accepted by President Yahya Khan and his legal adviser, ex-Chief Justice Cornelius, 'and it disappeared from the dialogues at an early stage.'11

The unexpected degree of progress which had been made in the talks led President Yahya Khan to call Mr. Bhutto to Dacca, where he arrived with his aides on 21 March. It was soon evident that there was no area of agreement between him and Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. He insisted that martial law should be retained until the new constitution was in force, and, in order to prevent the exercise by the Awami League of what he termed their 'brute majority', he maintained that no law or constitution should be able to be presented in the National Assembly unless approved by a majority of the members of each wing, and any constitution approved by the National Assembly should still be subject to the Presidential veto under the Legal Framework Order.2 It may be assumed that Mr. Bhutto's objection was to ensure that there was no lawful way in which East Bengal could obtain their economic independence, still less their political independence.

The 23rd March was 'Pakistan Day', and was provocatively declared in Dacca to be 'Resistance Day'. Sheikh Mujibur Rahman took the salute at an armed march past from his residence, from which the new Bangladesh flag was unfurled. This flag was flown from hundreds of public and private buildings all over the country. Sheikh Mujibur Rahman issued a 'declaration of emancipation'.

On the same day his representatives produced to the President's advisers a draft proclamation going well beyond the proposals which appeared to have been provisionally agreed three days earlier and, in one important respect beyond even the Six Points. The Awami League draft, which is set out in full as an appendix to the White Paper 13 provided for:

1. martial law to stand revoked in a province from the day when the Provincial Governor (who was to be irremovable) took office, and in any event within seven days of the proclamation; 

2. members of the National Assembly from' the State of Bangladesh , were to sit as a separate Constituent Convention to frame a constitution for the State of Bangladesh within 45 days, and members from the States of West Pakistan (Punjab, Sind, North-West Frontier Province and Balukistan) were to do likewise for a constitution for the States of West Pakistan; 

3. the National Assembly was then to 'sit together as a sovereign body for the purpose of framing a constitution for the Confederation of Pakistan' (not, as in the Six Points, a Federation), and the President was to be deprived of the power of veto which he had reserved for himself under the Legal Framework Order; 

4. the provincial government and legislature of East Pakistan were to have substantially increased powers during the interim period, including foreign trade and aid, control of finance and taxation and control of their own state bank.

On the face of them, these provisions would have ensured complete freedom for East Pakistan to determine its own destiny, and also complete control over the central constitution-making process and the central government. In view of the use which was subsequently made of this draft in justification of the army's action, the Awami League's account of how this document came to be prepared is of importance.

When by March 20 a fair amount of agreement seemed to have been reached on an interim constitution, the Awami League representatives urged President Yahya Khan to bring over a statutory draftsman to draw up the necessary proclamation. President Yahya Khan kept pressing the Awami League to produce their own draft. Unwisely perhaps, they eventually agreed to do so. In the circumstances, and with no agreement secured from Mr. Bhutto, the Awami League could hardly have been expected to draft a compromise proposal. Their draft (which appears to have been based on their draft constitution prepared for submission to the Constituent Assembly) expresses their negotiating position. They claim that they put it forward, not in the belief that it would be accepted in full, but expecting it to lead to more specific negotiations. Moreover, they contend that at no stage were their proposals rejected by President Yahya Khan, who kept referring matters for discussion by the expert advisers on both sides. The Awami League representatives are now convinced that President Yahya Khan never had any intention of reaching an agreement with the Awami League, and was merely playing for time.

Others believe that President Yahya Khan would, for his part, have been ready to accept an accommodation with the Awami League but that agreement could not be achieved with Mr. Bhutto. For example, the Times correspondent, Mr. Peter Hazelhurst has written:

'It was Bhutto who finally brought the President to take the decision which set East Bengal on fire. When the President put the Sheikh's proposal to the West Pakistan leaders, Bhutto pointed out that if the Martial Law was withdrawn, Pakistan would be broken up into five sovereign States, the moment the President restored the power to the Provinces. He expressed the fear that Sheikh Mujibur Rahman was trying to liquidate the Central Government, because when the President withdrew the Martial Law, he had no sanction to carryon as Head of the State. Half-convinced, the President went back to Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and expressed these fears. He promised Mujib that he would withdraw the Martial Law the moment the National Assembly met and gave the Central Government some form of validity. Sheikh Mujib reiterated his demand for the immediate withdrawal of the Martial Law.'14

According to the White Paper, the talks broke down because the Awarni League representatives were not prepared to compromise on the essential features of their proposed proclamation15, and because their proposals were unacceptable to Mr. Bhutto or to the other party leaders from West Pakistan, or to President Yahya Khan and the army.16

It is impossible to reconcile the accounts given by the two sides. Wherever the truth lies, it can be said that the Awami League believed that the election results, coupled with the complete support they had received from the people and all organs of government in East Pakistan since 2 March, entitled them to the degree of autonomy which they had claimed in the Six Points. When that was finally refused to them, they considered that they were entitled to claim the independence of Bangladesh in accordance with the principle of the right of self-determination. The justification for this claim in international law will be considered later.17 To President Yahya Khan and to the other army leaders, the claim to autonomy and the conduct of the Awami League appeared as treason. By 25 March the President had evidently concluded that no negotiated settlement was possible. There was no need to protract the fruitless constitutional negotiations any further. The army's contingency plans were brought into force. It struck, and struck with terrifying brutality.

The White Paper asserts that reports had become available of Awami League plans to launch an armed rebellion in the early hours of 26 March, and puts this forward as the explanation and justification of the army's action.18 According to the White Paper the operational plan was as follows:


East Bengali Regiment troops would occupy Dacca and Chittagong to prevent the landing of Pakistan Army reinforcements by air or sea;



the remaining East Bengali troops with the help of the East Pakistan Rifles and the police would move to eliminate the Armed Forces at various cantonments and stations;



the East Pakistan Regiment would occupy border posts to keep it open for aid, arms and ammunition from India;



Indian troops would come to the assistance of the Awami League once the latter succeeded in occupying the key centres and paralysing the Pakistani army.

The source of this information is not given, but it seems inherently probable, as well as being consistent with subsequent events, that there would have been a contingency plan of this nature. It must have been evident to all concerned that if the political talks broke down, the army would leave their cantonments and use force to restore the authority of the martial law regime and bring the' non-cooperation movement' to an end. The only alternative to surrender would then be armed resistance. Reports that the talks were foundering was common knowledge by the evening of March 24 and this resulted in outbreaks of violence in a number of centres on 25 March.

We do not feel able to accept that the army's action was caused by a discovery of an Awami League plan to launch an armed rebellion. Rather, it was caused by President Yahya Khan's decision to break off further negotiations and reassert his authority. The nature of the action taken was, however, influenced by the knowledge that it would convert the hitherto passive resistance into an armed resistance by defecting East Bengali troops and police and by those Awami League supporters and students who had succeeded in collecting arms.

The White Paper also asserts that' the action of the Federal Government on 25 March, 1971, was designed to restore law and order, which had broken down completely during the period of the Awami League's 'non-violent, non-cooperation' movement'.19 As has been seen, the charge that there had been a complete breakdown of law and order is not justified, at least up to 24 March. The break-down in law and order which then occurred was a consequence of the breakdown in talks, of the decision to reassert the authority of the army and of the armed resistance to that decision.

Footnotes:

1The Crisis in East Pakistan, Government of Pakistan, 5 August, 1971, p. 31. 

2Washington Post, 3 March 1971.

3Op. cit., p. 15.

4Martin Adeney, Venture, Vol. 23, No.5, p. 9, Fabian Society. London.

5Op. cit., pp. 32-38.

6Op. cit., pp. 16-27.

7Negotiating for Bangladesh: A Participant's View. Sobhan, R. July 1971, South Asian Review, Vol. 4, No.4, p. 315.

8See Part III below.

9Now Minister for Law in the Bangladesh Cabinet.

10Mr. Brohi later defended Sheikh Mujibur Rahman at his secret trial before a military tribunal after his arrest.

11Sobhan, R., op. cit., p. 323.

12The Crisis in East Pakistan, op. cit., p. 21.

13Op. cit., pp. 47-59.

14Peter Hazelhurst The Times, London, June 4, 1971.

15Op. cit., pp. 25 and 26.

16The Awami League representatives assert that this was not suggested to them, even at this late stage. It now seems clear that the decision to break off the negotiations and to start the army 'crack-down' must have been taken at the latest on March 24. However, at a further meeting on the evening of that day, President Yahya Khan's advisers did not reject the proposals and agreed to telephone Dr. Kamal Hossein next morning with a view to arranging a further meeting on the next day to discuss its terms. This was the telephone call which never came.'

17See Part V below.

18Op. cit., p. 27. The alleged operational plan is set out on p. 40.

19Op. cit., Introduction.

collected


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## Anubis

The fact that two nation theory did not work does not mean that the one nation theory would've worked.It just means that a three-nation theory(India-Pakistan-Bangladesh) or a four nation theory(India-Pakistan-Bangladesh-Kashmir) would have worked!

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## kalu_miah

monitor said:


> * THE EVENTS IN EAST PAKISTAN, 1971*



Can you provide a link or details of the source if it is not online, thanks.


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## monitor

kalu_miah said:


> Can you provide a link or details of the source if it is not online, thanks.


found it here . you will get more in it 
[Genocide/1971] The Events in East Pakistan: Events March 1-25

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## ejaz007

Wouldn't it be better if we all:

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## kobiraaz

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(&#2477;&#2494;&#2487;&#2494;&#2480;&#2496;&#2468;&#2495; &#2437;&#2476;&#2495;&#2453;&#2482; &#2480;&#2494;&#2454;&#2494; &#2489;&#2479;&#2492;&#2503;&#2459;&#2503&#2404; &#2488;&#2498;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;: &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503;&#2480; &#2488;&#2509;&#2476;&#2494;&#2471;&#2496;&#2472;&#2468;&#2494; &#2479;&#2497;&#2470;&#2509;&#2471;, &#2437;&#2487;&#2509;&#2463;&#2478; &#2454;&#2472;&#2509;&#2465;&#2404; &#2474;&#2499;&#2487;&#2509;&#2464;&#2494; &#2472;&#2434;: (&#2538;&#2541;&#2540;-&#2541;&#2542
 @kalu_miah

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## kalu_miah

cross posted:

Mujib was not pro-India until after 1971, after he was freed from jail in Pakistan. I just found out from Major Dalims book, Ami Major Dalim Bolchi, that Mujibs 6-point movement was created by Ford Foundation economists to teach a lesson and a warning to Ayub Khan by USA because he was getting close to China, a US enemy at the time.
Six point movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mujib was a lesser known politician with dubious reputation. True to his Gunda (goon) origin under Suhrawardy, he killed deputy speaker of parliament in an assault using broken chairs and microphones as projectiles:
Shahed Ali Patwary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MUJIB IN SHAHED ALIS DEATH: A CHAIR HIT THE DEPUTY SPEAKERS HEAD - Topix


6 point movement catapulted Mujib to popularity. Then Ayub Khan govt. tried to suppress 6-point movement by arresting Mujib and many top AL leaders based on false charges against them connecting them to Agartala Conspiracy (a minor but true treason case connected with RAW), although these AL leaders including Mujib had no connection to this treason case.

Bhashani came up with the 11 point movement mobilizing student activists to free Mujib and other leaders, all of whom were false charges by Ayub Khan govt. Due to these mass movement, Mujib was released, the case against him and others (to frame them) was dropped, and a young undeserving Mujib was catapulted as the undisputed national leader, as there was no one else available to speak as the voice of united East Pakistan. So here is the summary of sequence of events:

- unfair treatment and domination of West Pakistani-Mohajer elite and their usurpation of national power alienated Bengali elite (business, professional, bureacratic, armed forces, law enforcement and political class)
- Bengali elite joined with Bengali masses to press for end of Military rule, which was being used by minority West Pakistan-Mohajer elite to rule over majority Bengalis in Pakistan
- 6 point movement was funded and initiated by USA to teach Ayub Khan a lesson when he got close to China, an enemy of USA at the time
- Mujib and other top AL leaders were falsely charged with connection to Agartala Case (a minor but true conspiracy case with some minor figures that was actually hatched by RAW) to frame these national leaders as Indian agents and traitors
- Bhashani launched 11 point movement to free Mujib and others in a mass movement led by student activists
- Ayub Khan govt. fell as a result, Mujib and others were freed and Agartala case was dropped
- Bhasani was already 90 years old in 1970, so instead of this true visionary leader, an undeserving younger Mujib became the face and voice of East Pakistan, whose sole goal was autonomy, as strictly instructed by his US handlers, but never to go for breaking Pakistan in a move for secession
- when Mujib was jailed and Operation Searchlight was initiated, Pakistan Army was unleashed on a defenceless Bengali population, the Bengali members of armed forces revolted and declared independence (Zia) and initiated the armed struggle for liberation


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## Anubis

kalu_miah said:


> cross posted:
> 
> Mujib was not pro-India until after 1971, after he was freed from jail in Pakistan. I just found out from Major Dalim&#8217;s book, Ami Major Dalim Bolchi, that Mujib&#8217;s 6-point movement was created by Ford Foundation economists to teach a lesson and a warning to Ayub Khan by USA because he was getting close to China, a US enemy at the time.
> Six point movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Mujib was a lesser known politician with dubious reputation. True to his Gunda (goon) origin under Suhrawardy, he killed deputy speaker of parliament in an assault using broken chairs and microphones as projectiles:
> Shahed Ali Patwary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> MUJIB IN SHAHED ALI&#8217;S DEATH: A CHAIR HIT THE DEPUTY SPEAKER&#8217;S HEAD - Topix
> 
> 
> 6 point movement catapulted Mujib to popularity. Then Ayub Khan govt. tried to suppress 6-point movement by arresting Mujib and many top AL leaders based on false charges against them connecting them to Agartala Conspiracy (a minor but true treason case connected with RAW), although these AL leaders including Mujib had no connection to this treason case.
> 
> Bhashani came up with the 11 point movement mobilizing student activists to free Mujib and other leaders, all of whom were false charges by Ayub Khan govt. Due to these mass movement, Mujib was released, the case against him and others (to frame them) was dropped, and a young undeserving Mujib was catapulted as the undisputed national leader, as there was no one else available to speak as the voice of united East Pakistan. So here is the summary of sequence of events:
> 
> - unfair treatment and domination of West Pakistani-Mohajer elite and their usurpation of national power alienated Bengali elite (business, professional, bureacratic, armed forces, law enforcement and political class)
> - Bengali elite joined with Bengali masses to press for end of Military rule, which was being used by minority West Pakistan-Mohajer elite to rule over majority Bengali&#8217;s in Pakistan
> - 6 point movement was funded and initiated by USA to teach Ayub Khan a lesson when he got close to China, an enemy of USA at the time
> - Mujib and other top AL leaders were falsely charged with connection to Agartala Case (a minor but true conspiracy case with some minor figures that was actually hatched by RAW) to frame these national leaders as Indian agents and traitors
> - Bhashani launched 11 point movement to free Mujib and others in a mass movement led by student activists
> - Ayub Khan govt. fell as a result, Mujib and others were freed and Agartala case was dropped
> - Bhasani was already 90 years old in 1970, so instead of this true visionary leader, an undeserving younger Mujib became the face and voice of East Pakistan, whose sole goal was autonomy, as strictly instructed by his US handlers, but never to go for breaking Pakistan in a move for secession
> - when Mujib was jailed and Operation Searchlight was initiated, Pakistan Army was unleashed on a defenceless Bengali population, the Bengali members of armed forces revolted and declared independence (Zia) and initiated the armed struggle for liberation


So if Mujib was an American puppet till 1971 why did he suddenly switch camps?Was he killed because of the switch?Which camp were the killers from?USA or India?


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## Zabaniyah

RiasatKhan said:


> So if Mujib was an American puppet till 1971 why did he suddenly switch camps?Was he killed because of the switch?Which camp were the killers from?USA or India?



Mujib was no American puppet. 

Though, it is known that he tried very hard to run matters on his own terms and resisting India's influences. Particularly in the last days. 

Which camp were the killers from? They were thought to have had backing from the CIA. Though, this is just speculation at best.

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## kalu_miah

RiasatKhan said:


> So if Mujib was an American puppet till 1971 why did he suddenly switch camps?Was he killed because of the switch?Which camp were the killers from?USA or India?



Mujib was not a US puppet, but he and US partnered or used each other (according to some) to get the 6 point movement going to bring down govt. of Ayub Khan. After the war was over, he used Indian support to make Bangladesh his personal fief. He was killed because of his misrule (40,000 people political opponents killed using Rakkhi Bahini, former Mujib Bahini, a RAW creation + 1 million people killed in man-made famine of 1974) became unbearable for Bangladeshi masses and specially for the freedom fighters in then Bangladesh Army as well as anti-India faction of AL led by Khondokar Mushtaq. We will cover details of this incident in this thread:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...75-coup-counter-coup-their-after-effects.html

US did have knowledge of the coup, but it has not been established if they had any active role.

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## Flynn Swagmire

> This is what President Ershad did when the country faced crisis, he went down there himself...in the flood of 1988....a true leader...this is what Bangladesh needs.



I got this from FB.

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## Banglar Bagh

@abushaleh .. *here its for you..*

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## Flynn Swagmire

Banglar Bagh said:


> @abushaleh .. *here its for you..*



Jotil Pic LOL.

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## FaujHistorian

kalu_miah said:


> Mujib was not a US puppet, but he and US partnered or used each other (according to some) to get the 6 point movement going to bring down govt. of Ayub Khan. After the war was over, he used Indian support to make Bangladesh his personal fief. He was killed because of his misrule (40,000 people political opponents killed using Rakkhi Bahini, former Mujib Bahini, a RAW creation + 1 million people killed in man-made famine of 1974) became unbearable for Bangladeshi masses and specially for the freedom fighters in then Bangladesh Army as well as anti-India faction of AL led by Khondokar Mushtaq. We will cover details of this incident in this thread:
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...75-coup-counter-coup-their-after-effects.html
> 
> US did have knowledge of the coup, but it has not been established if they had any active role.




Very balanced post. Thank you. 

If we want to understand the politics of Mujib, Zulfi Bhutto, and others of the same period, we must go back to 1950s and 60s. 

In those turbulant years, Pakistani politics was impacted by the following factors. 

1. Cold war global politics
2. Jute politics/war drums between India and Pakistan
3. Urdu/Bangla language
4. Capitalism vs. Socialism internal fight (within Pakistani intellectual circles)
5. Religious fundoos trying to get a foothold in Pakistan even when most of them were anti Jinnah anti Pakistan
6. Famines and floods in the then E. Pakistan

Under those circumstances, USA/UK were supporting Pakistani Army. Pak army was the head of the American Hammer in the region. Peshawar was American Airbase, And the army was posted in different middle Eastern countries for the protection of American allies. CETO and CENTO (Asian version of NATO) were in fashion. 

However civilian politicians and intellectuals (who were born in 1920s-1930s) were mostly socialist. 


Perhaps that's the reason most of the big name politicians took socialist stance due to many reasons including the trends of time from India (nehru), China (Mao), and the Middle East (Gamal Nasir, Musadiq and the likes).

Thus Mujib, Zulfi Bhutto were left leaning admirers of leftist revolutionary forces around the globe. In these circumstances, one can say with certainty that Mujib was NOT supported by USA. 

If Mujib or Bhutto were supported by Communist russia, that is a separate story. 

Instead (in my limited knowledge)

Mujib it seems like was playing on factors #2, 3, and 6. 

I didn't list #1, because we can only say that he was definitely not in USA camp. However it is not clear if we was squarely in Communist Russia camp because we do not see him turing like Cuba's Castro after the independence of BDesh. 


After independence Mujib realized to his horror that jute income is not what he expected, and he faced enormous challenge to build up BDeshi economy, when the country was in teeters to begin with. 

So he embarked on totalitarian approach and absolute control like Mao, Bhutto, Nasir, Castro etc. he used his personal militia to accomplish his goals, and that backfired due the following. 

1. Economy remained bad
2. Social liberties that Bengali intellectuals had dreamed off, didn't materialize (in some case they lost what they had in the time of military rule)
3. Army saw Mujib's private militia as a direct threat to their established structure


So the man on the street lost hope, intellectuals ditched Mujib hoping to go back to the glory of military rule (from Pakistan days), and that provided Army to step in and end his short reign marked with economic and social decline. 

However I still feel bad for the guy. 

BDesh army should not have executed everyone in his family. I mean punish the guy, but don't kill innocent member of his family. 

Well that sad thing happened, and only one daughter survived because she was out of the country at that time. 


So this is a quick take on Mujib and global and local factors that impacted him. 

peace

p.s. I don't have all my notes in front of me, so some of the facts and figures may be off. If that is the case forgive me and correct me. Thank you.

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## kalu_miah

FaujHistorian said:


> Very balanced post. Thank you.
> 
> If we want to understand the politics of Mujib, Zulfi Bhutto, and others of the same period, we must go back to 1950s and 60s.
> 
> In those turbulant years, Pakistani politics was impacted by the following factors.
> 
> 1. Cold war global politics
> 2. Jute politics/war drums between India and Pakistan
> 3. Urdu/Bangla language
> 4. Capitalism vs. Socialism internal fight (within Pakistani intellectual circles)
> 5. Religious fundoos trying to get a foothold in Pakistan even when most of them were anti Jinnah anti Pakistan
> 6. Famines and floods in the then E. Pakistan
> 
> Under those circumstances, USA/UK were supporting Pakistani Army. Pak army was the head of the American Hammer in the region. Peshawar was American Airbase, And the army was posted in different middle Eastern countries for the protection of American allies. CETO and CENTO (Asian version of NATO) were in fashion.
> 
> However civilian politicians and intellectuals (who were born in 1920s-1930s) were mostly socialist.
> 
> 
> Perhaps that's the reason most of the big name politicians took socialist stance due to many reasons including the trends of time from India (nehru), China (Mao), and the Middle East (Gamal Nasir, Musadiq and the likes).
> 
> Thus Mujib, Zulfi Bhutto were left leaning admirers of leftist revolutionary forces around the globe. In these circumstances, one can say with certainty that Mujib was NOT supported by USA.
> 
> If Mujib or Bhutto were supported by Communist russia, that is a separate story.
> 
> Instead (in my limited knowledge)
> 
> Mujib it seems like was playing on factors #2, 3, and 6.
> 
> I didn't list #1, because we can only say that he was definitely not in USA camp. However it is not clear if we was squarely in Communist Russia camp because we do not see him turing like Cuba's Castro after the independence of BDesh.
> 
> 
> After independence Mujib realized to his horror that jute income is not what he expected, and he faced enormous challenge to build up BDeshi economy, when the country was in teeters to begin with.
> 
> So he embarked on totalitarian approach and absolute control like Mao, Bhutto, Nasir, Castro etc. he used his personal militia to accomplish his goals, and that backfired due the following.
> 
> 1. Economy remained bad
> 2. Social liberties that Bengali intellectuals had dreamed off, didn't materialize (in some case they lost what they had in the time of military rule)
> 3. Army saw Mujib's private militia as a direct threat to their established structure
> 
> 
> So the man on the street lost hope, intellectuals ditched Mujib hoping to go back to the glory of military rule (from Pakistan days), and that provided Army to step in and end his short reign marked with economic and social decline.
> 
> However I still feel bad for the guy.
> 
> BDesh army should not have executed everyone in his family. I mean punish the guy, but don't kill innocent member of his family.
> 
> Well that sad thing happened, and only one daughter survived because she was out of the country at that time.
> 
> 
> So this is a quick take on Mujib and global and local factors that impacted him.
> 
> peace
> 
> p.s. I don't have all my notes in front of me, so some of the facts and figures may be off. If that is the case forgive me and correct me. Thank you.



Thanks for your input. The US angle was pointed out by some, it could be false.

My stands are based on limited information and they are only as good as the sources of information.

I am aware that socialism was in vogue at the time and looking at current global situation, it may even make a come back, in different incarnations of course.

Two of the daughters survived, the other daughter's name is Rehana.

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## FaujHistorian

kalu_miah said:


> Thanks for your input. The US angle was pointed out by some, it could be false.
> 
> My stands are based on limited information and they are only as good as the sources of information.
> 
> I am aware that socialism was in vogue at the time and looking at current global situation, it may even make a come back, in different incarnations of course.
> 
> Two of the daughters survived, the other daughter's name is Rehana.



Oh yes. Sh Rehana was in Germany as well. (I wonder what she is upto these days)

Thanks for the correction. 

peace

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## Zabaniyah

Stop tagging mods! 
http://www.defence.pk/forums/announcements/231130-forum-announcements.html

The report button is there for a reason.


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## kalu_miah

Loki said:


> Stop tagging mods!
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/announcements/231130-forum-announcements.html
> 
> The report button is there for a reason.



Ok, mod. Next time will use the report button. Thanks for cleaning up the thread.


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## ShahidT

A photograph that connects all three of us

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## Skies

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...rd-pakistan-army-not-involved-bangladesh.html

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## animelive

Ojana said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...rd-pakistan-army-not-involved-bangladesh.html



I am not sure how true this is but way more credible than our history books


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## Anubis




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## Anubis

Rare interview with a Freedom Fighter!

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## Assault Rifle

A very useful link:
Newspaper Reports 1971 | December'1971

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## asad71

RiasatKhan said:


> Rare interview with a Freedom Fighter!



1.There are two PA/BA officers here, both from E Bengal Regt. Col Shafat Jamil, who died last year, had commanded 3 E Bengal. He belonged to the 29th PMA Long Course. He was Commander, Dhaka when Sheikh was killed. 

2.The other one wearing glasses is Lieut Col Ziauddin. He commanded 1 E Bengal during the war. Was also the Adj of this Bn during '65 War at Luliana, Lahore. Ziauddin was Commander Dhaka when Shafiullah became the Chief just after Osmani joined the cabinet. Because of his extreme but patriotic views and criticsm of the govt for too much India-friendliness, he was sacked. He joined the underground communist movement of Shiraj Shikdar, the Sharbohara Party, initially becoming its military chief. Once Shikdar was killed Ziauddin became the Party Chief. He surfaced during Ershad's reign refusing all offers of govt job or political position. He has now become the founding principal of a school in Chittagong. He has transformed into a very good Muslim offering even Tahazzid prayers every night. He is often invited to address waz mahfils.

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## Al-zakir

asad71 said:


> 2.The other one wearing glasses is Lieut Col Ziauddin. He commanded 1 E Bengal during the war. Was also the Adj of this Bn during '65 War at Luliana, Lahore. Ziauddin was Commander Dhaka when Shafiullah became the Chief just after Osmani joined the cabinet. Because of his extreme but patriotic views and criticsm of the govt for too much India-friendliness, he was sacked. He joined the underground communist movement of Shiraj Shikdar, the Sharbohara Party, initially becoming its military chief. Once Shikdar was killed Ziauddin became the Party Chief. He surfaced during Ershad's reign refusing all offers of govt job or political position. He has now become the founding principal of a school in Chittagong. He has transformed into a very good Muslim offering even Tahazzid prayers every night. He is often invited to address waz mahfils.



Assad Sir, is this Ziauddin same as Ziauddin Ahmed. Here is a picture. He is an Awami leaguer/leftist and anti-Islamic bigot.


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## asad71

Al-zakir said:


> Assad Sir, is this Ziauddin same as Ziauddin Ahmed. Here is a picture. He is an Awami leaguer/leftist and anti-Islamic bigot.



No, this is a common mistake. This one is Maj Zia, BB of Pirojpur and Sundarban fame. An Arty officer much junior to Lieut Col Ziauddin, BU who belongs to Harbang, Chittagong.

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## Al-zakir

asad71 said:


> No, this is a common mistake. This one is Maj Zia, BB of Pirojpur and Sundarban fame. An Arty officer much junior to Lieut Col Ziauddin, BU who belongs to Harbang, Chittagong.



Assad Sir,

I meant to ask you. If you knew what you know now(Awami-Bhaarti conspiracy to weaken Muslims in SA), would you have revolted against Pakistan or you(E.Pakistani solders) would have take diffrent rout to form lose federation/union of some kind. 

Answer if you feel comportable otherwise don't.


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## asad71

Al-zakir said:


> Assad Sir,
> 
> I meant to ask you. If you knew what you know now(Awami-Bhaarti conspiracy to weaken Muslims in SA), would you have revolted against Pakistan or you(E.Pakistani solders) would have take diffrent rout to form lose federation/union of some kind.
> 
> Answer if you feel comportable otherwise don't.



1.I can answer that without hesitation. Initially Bengalees in the armed forces simply reacted when they were fired upon or getting killed. And once the Bengalee - (W) Pakistani War became a general conflict, there was no choice for conscientious people who got a chance to defect and join the liberation fighters. It will come as a shock to many, but this is true and I know some cases personally where (W) Pakistani comrades took their Bengalee friends to the border asking them to go fight for their own.

2. It was a criminal error of Pakistanis not to take the Bengalee personnel into confidence before launching Search Light. But we have yet to know what was in the minds of evil geniuses like Bhutto or diabolical people like Mithha and Umar. What was the involvement of the Qadyianis? Planning Commission chief MM Ahmed, a Qadyinai was very active those days and is said to have misled the govt into believing that the economy was so bad that a war was needed to pull through. In one of his televised speeches from his HQ at Islamabad of London, the Massih of the Qadyianis had claimed just after the war, that the break up of Pakistan was as per their plan.

3. There is no doubt that RAW was active in this break up since 1965. Brig Sabegh Singh, a crucial man in this programme, was posted to a new super secret outfit called Kilo Force or Delta Sector in Dec 1970. He was the man in charge of training and organizing Mukti Bahini civilian fighters. So hush hush was this affair that Sabegh Singh's family did not anything about his whereabouts from Dec 70 to Apr 71.

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## Zabaniyah

Al-zakir said:


> Assad Sir,
> 
> I meant to ask you. If you knew what you know now(Awami-Bhaarti conspiracy to weaken Muslims in SA), would you have revolted against Pakistan or you(E.Pakistani solders) would have take diffrent rout to form lose federation/union of some kind.
> 
> Answer if you feel comportable otherwise don't.



I'd like to add something here.

Someone here once asked as to what went wrong with Operation Searchlight. Sure, Pakistan had every right to enforce the rule of law and order. However, what went wrong with that operation was pretty much everything. 

The operation failed to suppress the Awami/Bengali Nationalist activists. See, the West Pakistanis did not know exactly who the Awami activists were, or their whereabouts. They did not have an accurate picture of their activities either even knowing that they were up to something. 

They completely missed their target during the operation, and dropped the bomb on the incorrect targets. Hence adding grievances that led the ethnic Bengali population to revolt and increased support for the Bengali Nationalists. 

So much so, the Pakistan Army had very few leads. And so they relied on the so-called "Razaakars" for intelligence. Their task was to offer information on the Awami's whereabouts, and yes they were paid of-course. 

What the Pakistanis did not realize was that the people whom they were relying upon for that particular information were apparently targeting individuals whom they had personal dislikes, or a threat to their power base. 

The mission was hence a catastrophic failure. 

Another aspect was that the Pakistani leaders did tend to misuse intelligence reports. The ISI are at least always dependable. Mujib had nothing to do with the Agartala Conspiracy in the first place, and yet he was framed. I bet he didn't even know about the damn thing. 

The one thing that folks need to realize is that our big brother to the West gave very little thought into the security of East Pakistan. That is even after instigating an insurgency in North East India during the 60's. Not to mention a lackluster air force (they only had one squadron of back-dated F-86's) and a close to non-existent naval force specifically for the security of East Pakistan. 

See, even if we look at the present, the likes of the Chatra League are still very powerful, having various links in the underworld to this very day. So there is the proof of that. 

The grievances of that pathetic failure are still very real to this day, and yes these grievances are misused by a minority of bigots in a nation filled with clueless people. But I think we'll get there one day. Bangladesh is still a very young nation. 

Despite all this, the creation of Pakistan will remain as a significant part of Bangladesh's history and identity. What Awami's and Indians say are of no consequence.

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## PlanetSoldier

Loki said:


> I'd like to add something here.
> 
> Someone here once asked as to what went wrong with Operation Searchlight. Sure, Pakistan had every right to enforce the rule of law and order. However, what went wrong with that operation was pretty much everything.
> 
> The operation failed to suppress the Awami/Bengali Nationalist activists. See, the West Pakistanis did not know exactly who the Awami activists were, or their whereabouts. They did not have an accurate picture of their activities either even knowing that they were up to something.
> 
> They completely missed their target during the operation, and dropped the bomb on the incorrect targets. Hence adding grievances that led the ethnic Bengali population to revolt and increased support for the Bengali Nationalists.
> 
> So much so, the Pakistan Army had very few leads. And so they relied on the so-called "Razaakars" for intelligence. Their task was to offer information on the Awami's whereabouts, and yes they were paid of-course.
> 
> What the Pakistanis did not realize was that the people whom they were relying upon for that particular information were apparently targeting individuals whom they had personal dislikes, or a threat to their power base.
> 
> The mission was hence a catastrophic failure.
> 
> Another aspect was that the Pakistani leaders did tend to misuse intelligence reports. The ISI are at least always dependable. Mujib had nothing to do with the Agartala Conspiracy in the first place, and yet he was framed. I bet he didn't even know about the damn thing.
> 
> The one thing that folks need to realize is that our big brother to the West gave very little thought into the security of East Pakistan. That is even after instigating an insurgency in North East India during the 60's. Not to mention a lackluster air force (they only had one squadron of back-dated F-86's) and a close to non-existent naval force specifically for the security of East Pakistan.
> 
> See, even if we look at the present, the likes of the Chatra League are still very powerful, having various links in the underworld to this very day. So there is the proof of that.
> 
> The grievances of that pathetic failure are still very real to this day, and yes these grievances are misused by a minority of bigots in a nation filled with clueless people. But I think we'll get there one day. Bangladesh is still a very young nation.
> 
> Despite all this, the creation of Pakistan will remain as a significant part of Bangladesh's history and identity. What Awami's and Indians say are of no consequence.



Army is to fight external enemy, fighting own people no army wins and the final outcome is like what happened then. If you steal money from your dad's parse or do something wrong, your mom tries to save you from the wrath of your dad. Now if your dad thinks of heavy punishment, hell will come there at home. But if the same thing someone does at his office, he can take many actions there. Military rule doesn't work in family....does it?

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## Md Akmal

kalu_miah said:


> Thanks for your input. The US angle was pointed out by some, it could be false.
> 
> My stands are based on limited information and they are only as good as the sources of information.
> 
> I am aware that socialism was in vogue at the time and looking at current global situation, it may even make a come back, in different incarnations of course.
> 
> Two of the daughters survived, the other daughter's name is Rehana.



@ So, kalu_miah take my version also, in those days I was alive both in East and West.

@ FM Ayub Khan was moving very fast so the economy of Pakistan also. The Ecomy of Pakistan became a " Nomuna" in 3rd world countries. The people of the world used to visit Pakistan for research. " How could Pakistan develop so fast ?" That was the talk of the day ???? Pakistan was the member of SEATO and *CENTO.* Pakistan also made a Defence Pact with USA and Australia. After the Korean War-1954-56 about a 5 Division weapon both small and heavy straight way came to Pakistan specially in East Pakistan. Australia quickly gave the Sabre Jet. The relation between Pakistan and USA was in peak. The problem arose once the war broke out between India and China in 1962. America at once came forward to help India. America also requested to Pakistan to attack on the Northern Kashmir which was occupied by China. Ayub did not accepted the proposal rather objected that the same weapon would be used against Pakistan in case of War. In 1965 the relation between Ayub and USA was further deterriated as USA did not came to help Pakistan as per the Defence Pact.

@ In the 1965 War Pakistan was seriously bitten. Pakistan some how protected the Western Front but left East Pakistan under the mercy of India. Ayub now was in serious delima ??? He made his hand towards China and Russia. He also made contact with the Non-Alingement Movement(NAM) and within a very short time became very popular. The " Karakorum" HIghway was quickly built between Pakistan and China.Soon Ayub gave ultimatum to USA to stop their activities in Pashawar. Ayub also made an Economic forum known as *RCD* (Regional Co-operation for Development) between Pakistan, Iran and Turkey. Under these critical situation USA proposed to Ayub to have an Naval Base at Saint Martin island in Bay of Bengal. Ayub did not accepted the proposal.Now, America started thinking of alternative of Ayub. Soon, they recruited Sk Mujib and he quickly gave his 6 points programme. During these period the Agartula Conspiracy case started. It is said that this 6 points programme was made by CIA and RAW.

@ Mujib definitely was a pro-Indian as well a Pro-American. In those days probably the American Asst Ambassador was Blood and there were lot of evidences where Mujib had a close link and had a frequent movement. In those days it was said that whatever Mujib had to say he used to say on behalf of America. And America used to work through RAW. But Mujib's youth front was out and out a left oriented and pro-Indian which RAW had done very secretly since early 50's. But the problem arose once Republican Nixten was elected as President. He was out and out anti-India and tilted towards Pakistan and through Pakistan made a link with China. Now, once Mujib was elected he was in a real problem. His all link with America was cut. The matter became more worse once the American Ambassodor physically came from Islamabad and told Mujib, " Whatever you should do, it should be within the frame work of united Pakistan." That was the reason why Mujib was in delima what to do ??????? Mujib never wanted that East Pakistan to be liberated with the help of India. But that does not meant he did not want any help from India !!!!

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## Md Akmal

Md Akmal said:


> @ So, kalu_miah take my version also, in those days I was alive both in East and West.
> 
> @ FM Ayub Khan was moving very fast so the economy of Pakistan also. The Ecomy of Pakistan became a " Nomuna" in 3rd world countries. The people of the world used to visit Pakistan for research. " How could Pakistan develop so fast ?" That was the talk of the day ???? Pakistan was the member of SEATO and *CENTO.* Pakistan also made a Defence Pact with USA and Australia. After the Korean War-1954-56 about a 5 Division weapon both small and heavy straight way came to Pakistan specially in East Pakistan. Australia quickly gave the Sabre Jet. The relation between Pakistan and USA was in peak. The problem arose once the war broke out between India and China in 1962. America at once came forward to help India. America also requested to Pakistan to attack on the Northern Kashmir which was occupied by China. Ayub did not accepted the proposal rather objected that the same weapon would be used against Pakistan in case of War. In 1965 the relation between Ayub and USA was further deterriated as USA did not came to help Pakistan as per the Defence Pact.
> 
> @ In the 1965 War Pakistan was seriously bitten. Pakistan some how protected the Western Front but left East Pakistan under the mercy of India. Ayub now was in serious delima ??? He made his hand towards China and Russia. He also made contact with the Non-Alingement Movement(NAM) and within a very short time became very popular. The " Karakorum" HIghway was quickly built between Pakistan and China.Soon Ayub gave ultimatum to USA to stop their activities in Pashawar. Ayub also made an Economic forum known as *RCD* (Regional Co-operation for Development) between Pakistan, Iran and Turkey. Under these critical situation USA proposed to Ayub to have an Naval Base at Saint Martin island in Bay of Bengal. Ayub did not accepted the proposal.Now, America started thinking of alternative of Ayub. Soon, they recruited Sk Mujib and he quickly gave his 6 points programme. During these period the Agartula Conspiracy case started. It is said that this 6 points programme was made by CIA and RAW.
> 
> @ Mujib definitely was a pro-Indian as well a Pro-American. In those days probably the American Asst Ambassador was Blood and there were lot of evidences where Mujib had a close link and had a frequent movement. In those days it was said that whatever Mujib had to say he used to say on behalf of America. And America used to work through RAW. But Mujib's youth front was out and out a left oriented and pro-Indian which RAW had done very secretly since early 50's. But the problem arose once Republican Nixten was elected as President. He was out and out anti-India and tilted towards Pakistan and through Pakistan made a link with China. Now, once Mujib was elected he was in a real problem. His all link with America was cut. The matter became more worse once the American Ambassodor physically came from Islamabad and told Mujib, " Whatever you should do, it should be within the frame work of united Pakistan." That was the reason why Mujib was in delima what to do ??????? Mujib never wanted that East Pakistan to be liberated with the help of India. But that does not meant he did not want any help from India !!!!



@ There was a saying in those days (British Period) in Indian Sub-Continent that " What Bengal thinks today, India thinks tomorrow". Definitely there was some truth on it. It was said as because Bengal was the first who came under British rule then the other parts of India. So, naturally the Bengali people were much more politically matured than other people of India.

@ On the other hand the people of Punjab and Peshawar came under British rule on that day 
(1846) after the defeat of Ranjit Singh by the British Forces. Bengal came under British rule in 1757 after Battle of Pallassy. During the "Sepoy Mutiny" once the Bengali soldiers along with other soldiers of India were fighting with the English people, the Pathans and Punjabi soldiers were collaborating with the British forces to defuse the mutiny. Soon, the Pathans and Punjabi's were awarded as " Marshal Race" and Bengalise were branded as revolter and unsuitable for military jobs !!!!

@ Through out 24 years of united Pakistan the politicians of West Pakistan were proved to be immatured and failed to tackle the situation of 1971. It was daffer Genral Yahya who without realising the political implication made a conspiracy and over threw FM Ayub Khan. He at once freezed the Cental Account of Convention Leaque ( pro-Ayub). After some times he also ordered to freeze the accounts of 22 industrial families. Soon, near about 500 senior CSP officers were force fully retired. All the above actions crippled the politics of Muslim Leaque in Pakistan. In fact Yahya was afraid of all fractions of Muslim Leaque as because he himself came to power illegally. Behind the scene he always favoured Awami Leaque and PPP. So, after the general election Yahya himself was in trap. In thoses days in late March 1971 the Pakistani Army was not in aposition to attack on the civilian as their strenght was much less then the Bengali troops so they prefered to sent the Bengali troops in different location isolately and whenever they got the chance they dis-armed the Bengali soldiers and in the process they killeds many Bengali soldiers. They hardly catch hold the Awami Leaque MP's. However, it was found that near about 45 MNA/MP's surrendered to Pakistani forces and out of these two became a ministers in Malek's Cabinet.

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## Zabaniyah

Keep Kashmir discussions out please.

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## kalu_miah

@Armstrong @Hyperion, I would like to extend my apologies for loosing temper on the other closed thread, one should have no excuse for that:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...lding-first-nuclear-plant-12.html#post4841015

Also, I had one question for you guys, what is your opinion about Operation Searchlight, was it justified?

I think we can agree to disagree on past events and history and have our own "narratives", but that should not prevent Bangladesh and Pakistan to move forward on improving relations and work together on world stage, if such opportunities present themselves or at least not try to undermine each others interest. For that to happen, it will help if all of us are careful about how we portray the common past and not paint a whole people or nation as "traitors" who shook hands with the enemy. Most Muslim nations have a difficult future ahead, we do not need to add any more to the difficulties we already have. Rather, the more we cooperate the more it may work to our advantage, in my opinion.

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## Viking 63

Sad conclusion to what happened in the end !!! Bengalis have geniune grivevenses but the manner they went about in 1970 after the elections were wrong !! I have met many Bengalis and i find it that they have severe hatred towards Pakistanis and this include even very young people !!! Which begs the question as what Bangladesh is teaching in its schools and colleges... They have to move on but this Nation and its people are still stuck in 1971 !!!


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## jaibi

In my opinion it was our fault 100%. See, India was the enemy, there's considerable evidence to suggest the USSR had considerable input in the plan but in the end it was Pakistan's fault. Bhutto and Rehman's for being typical South Asian politicians and not relenting. The regime's for their total lack of strategic planning: you're surrounded by an ocean of hostility and you cannot think that this might be a bad situation? Seriously? We had to protect our own. We didn't. We lost. End of story.

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## Anubis

jaibi said:


> In my opinion it was our fault 100%. See, India was the enemy, there's considerable evidence to suggest the USSR had considerable input in the plan but in the end it was Pakistan's fault. Bhutto and Rehman's for being typical South Asian politicians and not relenting. The regime's for their total lack of strategic planning: you're surrounded by an ocean of hostility and you cannot think that this might be a bad situation? Seriously? We had to protect our own. We didn't. We lost. End of story.



It wasn't actually 'your' fault.You did not elect Yahya Khan.**** happened under the leadership of an un-elected military regime.

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## kalu_miah

Didn't Yahya Khan consult with elected leaders of then Western wing, before planning or giving the go ahead for Operation Searchlight?

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## kalu_miah

Viking 63 said:


> Sad conclusion to what happened in the end !!! Bengalis have geniune grivevenses but the manner they went about in 1970 after the elections were wrong !! I have met many Bengalis and i find it that they have severe hatred towards Pakistanis and this include even very young people !!! Which begs the question as what Bangladesh is teaching in its schools and colleges... They have to move on but this Nation and its people are still stuck in 1971 !!!



I think both nations are teaching wrong and fictitious history, may be that is the source of confusion for both.

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## Anubis

kalu_miah said:


> Didn't Yahya Khan consult with elected leaders of then Western wing, before planning or giving the go ahead for Operation Searchlight?



If he did don't you think Mujib would know about it?He did have some political support in the west.And if Mujib did know about it ahead of time don't you think he would have told everyone else?


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## kalu_miah

Anubis said:


> If he did don't you think Mujib would know about it?He did have some political support in the west.And if Mujib did know about it ahead of time don't you think he would have told everyone else?



I am asking a question and you are replying with another question, without answering the original question.

Someone with more knowledge ( @asad71 Bhai ) may be able to highlight Bhutto's role during Jan-March 25, 1971. This comment is the only material I found on the web:

Why Pakistan should apologise to Bangladesh  The Express Tribune
shahid
Nov 28, 2012 - 2:49AM
Reply
One thing that this article is missing is the role played by Z. A. Bhutto who joined with the military junta, in power at that time. After the 1970 elections he raised the famous idhar tum, udhar hum slogan. He refused to join the assembly session which was called in Dacca. All other prominent political parties went to Dacca except Z. A. hutto and his PPP. After the start of the military operation in East Pakistan, he thanked God for having saved Pakistan. He was supportive of the ruling junta and in fact in cahoots with them throughout the military operation. He finally became the foreign minister and the deputy prime minister of Yahya regime, and defended what they were doing. Bhutto could not accept Mujib-ur-Rehman to become the prime minister of Pakistan because that would have forced Bhutto into the position of an opposition leader in the assembly and effectively out of power for five years. This was not acceptable to him, given his feudal mindset, notwithstanding all of his noise about poor people and socialist causes. He would much rather be in the government than not; if this meant that the country would be split, so be it. And that is what finally happened and we are living with the consequences today. If he had supported Mujeeb and all other political parties who were clamoring for a civilian government after a long military rule, we would have been spared the martial laws  and a civilian martial law administrator  and the military would have been forced to return to the cantonments; they would not have had any choice. A united peoples of Pakistan would have won the day and we would be standing wihtout our heads hanging in shame. THEREFORE IT IS IN ORDER AND PROPER THAT Z. A. Bhuttos inheritors today should also ask for AN APOLOGY FROM THE PEOPLE OF EAST PAKISTAN ON BEHALF OF Z. A. BHUTTO AND THE ROLE THAT HE PLAYED IN THAT TRAGEDY, BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT OF PAKISTAN FORMALLY APOLOGIZES TO OUR BENGALI BROTHERS AND SISTERS.


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## Armstrong

kalu_miah said:


> @Armstrong @Hyperion, I would like to extend my apologies for loosing temper on the other closed thread, one should have no excuse for that:
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...lding-first-nuclear-plant-12.html#post4841015
> 
> Also, I had one question for you guys, what is your opinion about Operation Searchlight, was it justified?
> 
> I think we can agree to disagree on past events and history and have our own "narratives", but that should not prevent Bangladesh and Pakistan to move forward on improving relations and work together on world stage, if such opportunities present themselves or at least not try to undermine each others interest. For that to happen, it will help if all of us are careful about how we portray the common past and not paint a whole people or nation as "traitors" who shook hands with the enemy. Most Muslim nations have a difficult future ahead, we do not need to add any more to the difficulties we already have. Rather, the more we cooperate the more it may work to our advantage, in my opinion.



I'm sorry too !  

But right now, as callous as it might sound, Bangladesh is the least of our worries or the least of the possible opportunities that Pakistan is thinking about availing right now ! 

Right now between, what we perceive to be, a belligerent India, an unfriendly & uncooperative Afghanistan, an economy that has nose-dived right into the ground, the Baluch Insurgency, the Militant Extremism of the TTP & their fellows throughout the country, the seeping sectarianism in the country & an ever worsening international image of Pakistan, have kept us busy aplenty for the time being ! 

Bangladesh isn't that 'hot' a topic on our radar right now & most certainly the Awami League therein & the narrative that is weaved by them doesn't help !

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## kalu_miah

Armstrong said:


> I'm sorry too !
> 
> But right now, as callous as it might sound, Bangladesh is the least of our worries or the least of the possible opportunities that Pakistan is thinking about availing right now !
> 
> Right now between, what we perceive to be, a belligerent India, an unfriendly & uncooperative Afghanistan, an economy that has nose-dived right into the ground, the Baluch Insurgency, the Militant Extremism of the TTP & their fellows throughout the country, the seeping sectarianism in the country & an ever worsening international image of Pakistan, have kept us busy aplenty for the time being !
> 
> Bangladesh isn't that 'hot' a topic on our radar right now & most certainly the Awami League therein & the narrative that is weaved by them doesn't help !



I know, Pakistan and Bangladesh have different worries and preoccupations. That is why I said:
"move forward on improving relations and work together on world stage, *if such opportunities present themselves* or at least not try to undermine each others interest"

I am thinking of a theoretical model for a general Sino-Muslim alliance of sorts, by developing closer relations between GCC states and China, in the coming decades. Hopefully Pakistan will be supportive of this concept and will not have reservations to see other Muslim nations such as Turkey, Egypt, Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh etc., coming on board and getting closer to both GCC states and China, both of whom are close traditional allies of Pakistan.


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## Armstrong

kalu_miah said:


> I know, Pakistan and Bangladesh have different worries and preoccupations. That is why I said:
> "move forward on improving relations and work together on world stage, *if such opportunities present themselves* or at least not try to undermine each others interest"
> 
> I am thinking of a theoretical model for a general Sino-Muslim alliance of sorts, by developing closer relations between GCC states and China, in the coming decades. Hopefully Pakistan will be supportive of this concept and will not have reservations to see other Muslim nations such as Turkey, Egypt, Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh etc., coming on board and getting closer to both GCC states and China, both of whom are close traditional allies of Pakistan.



I don't believe in such a concept ! 

But Pakistan has never opposed anyone in forming any relations with anyone else - Do you what you desire !

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## Dillinger

Armstrong said:


> I don't believe in such a concept !
> 
> But Pakistan has never opposed anyone in forming any relations with anyone else - Do you what you desire !



You know that there is no injunction which allows you to ignore your responsibilities towards the Ummah, even if the larger Ummah does not help you out in any constructive manner.

You my friend shall most definitely burn in hell with us heathens, although you might find other disco maulvis to keep you company.

Btw, why haven't you sat on Bali yet?

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## asad71

@ kalu_miah


*Bhutto Legend
Myth and Reality *
By Dr Asif Javed 
Williamsport, PA
I feel that your services to Pakistan are indispensible. When the history of our country is written by objective historians, your name will be placed even before that of Mr. Jinnah. The writer of this infamous piece of consummate flattery was a young Z.A. Bhutto, and the recipient, Sikander Mirza, who should be in the political hall of shame, if one were ever to be erected in Pakistan.

Balawal Zardari has recently made a lot of noise about Z.A. Bhuttos trial and demanded apology for the unjust verdict handed out to his grandfather. It has become very fashionable lately to call it a judicial murder. This writer is not a lawyer nor am I a politician; I do, however, belong to the unfortunate generation that witnessed the events of his grandfathers time in power, and fall from it. It is said that legends ossify over time; in Bhuttos case, certainly that appears to be so. Bhutto worship has become a relentless train that shows no signs of slowing down; instead, it keeps gathering speed. In the process, the established historical facts are being denied or distorted, and myths are being created. KK Aziz may easily write another volume of Murder of history based upon what we have seen recently.

Z.A. Bhutto was widely admired for his genius. Henry Kissinger may not have been way off the mark when he remarked, Elegant, eloquent, subtle. . . .I found him brilliant, charming, of global stature in his perceptions. . . .He did not suffer fools gladly.It is however, the other side of ZABthe dark onethat needs to be revisited. In the process, perhaps we, as a nation, may learn some lessons and see things in the right perspective. Khalid Hasan, a life long admirer, who knew ZAB first hand, and worked as his press secretary, may have written the most balanced and insightful short biography of ZAB. He has summed it up eloquently: ZAB had all the makings of a classical hero, carrying the seeds of self destruction in him---he was a flawed genius, a god who turned out to have feet of clay. . . .ZAB had many personal failings, including an inability to trust others, a congenital suspicion of friends and high sensitivity to personal criticism.

With rare insight and objectivity, KH writes: There is no evidence that US government or any of his agencies played a role in the overthrow of Bhutto---the time has come for us to accept that much of what has happened to our country and our leaders has been the result of our own mistakes. . . .ZAB believed that a country should have only one central figure as leader and all power should flow from him. It is a tragedy that a man of Bhuttos intelligence, education and sense of history did not appreciate that Pakistan could only survive as a federal state with the provinces enjoying the maximum autonomy. Bhutto could not abide rival claimants to power even if they were elected to their office. He could not work with the opposition run provincial governments in Quetta and Peshawar and squeezed them out; that was his undoing. Bhutto forgot that power in order to be kept, must be dispersed. KH also notes that it was Bhutto who revised ISIs charter to include domestic political intelligence.

It is widely believed that Bhutto was hanged for a crime that he did not commit. It is rarely, if ever, asked, who then was the real perpetrator? Mohammad Ahmad Kasuri was murdered in Lahore; the crime scene was found to have shells used by FSF---Bhuttos elite security force. And yet, the investigation was not extended to FSF. I recall a statement by Hanif Ramay of PPP, then the CM of Punjab, that Kasuri family had many enemies. This was despite Ahmez Raza Kasuris contention that there was no suspect but oneZAB. This was not the first attempt on Kasuris life; he had escaped one ambush in Islamabad earlier. These episodes had followed an angry exchange between ZAB and Kasuri in the NA when ZAB called Kasuri a poison and threatened to fix him up. Ch Sardar, former IG Police, Punjab, has provided the firsthand account of this case in his biography, The Ultimate Crime; so read on: FSF was created by a notorious dismissed police officer, Haq Nawaz Tiwana, and was headed ultimately by another infamous police officer, Masood Mahmood----The FSF did not bother about any law, assuming the role of Bhuttos private army---- Soon after the imposition of martial law, an elaborate enquiry in to the affairs of FSF was initiated. The FSF had gained a reputation of being, Bhuttos gang of goons, for dirty works. During the enquiry, ASI M. Arshad of FSF, appeared before Ch. Abdul Khaliq, Dep. Director, FIA, Lahore and promised to tell everything truthfully if he were not tortured. He disclosed that he was a member of a special cell in the FSF headquarters, which had the most trusted officers for secret and sensitive missions---then he threw a bombshell. He said he was one of the FSF men who had fired on the car in which MNA Ahmad Raza Kasuri was ambushed. So, this was the first solid lead in to the infamous murder case that led Bhutto to the gallows; legal intricacies aside, one is hard pressed not to see a connection here. Ch Sardar discusses the dubious character of the infamous trio of Masood Mahmood (DG FSF), Saeed Ahmad Khan(Chief Sec Officer to Bhutto) and Sardar Abdul Wakeel, DIG Lahore; they all had been among the most trusted police officers of Bhutto and would commit criminal and illegal acts to show him their devotion and loyalty. After his overthrow, they all were among the star prosecution witnesses in the case that led to his conviction. Sardar also, confirms the widely believed rumor of the time that a procession of opposition women in 1977, was mal-handled near Wapda House, Lahore by the Nath Forcea large number of prostitutes, recruited temporarily as police women, specifically for this purpose.

Kasuris murder may have been the most famous one, but was by no means the only one; this is a list that includes Dr. Nazir Ahmed of JI, MNA from Dera Ghazi Khan who was gunned down in his clinic weeks after provincial chief of his party, Syed Asad Gilani, had been warned by Khar (Us ka anjaam acha naheen ho ga). Kh Rafiq was gunned down behind Punjab assembly while leading a procession; Abdus Samad Achakzai was killed in his house in a grenade attack while Maulvi Shamsuddin, MPA and deputy speaker of Balochistan assembly, was shot in his car. Those who escaped attempts at their lives included Wali Khan, who lost his driver and personal body guard in the ambush; this was fourth attempt on his life. Years later, Wali Khan was to warn Zia of Bhuttos vengeance (there are two dead bodies and one grave; make sure Bhutto goes in first, otherwise, you may be the one). Ch. Zahur Elahi, whose political heirs sit happily with Zardari at present, suffered more than most; Amnesty international once reported that there were 117 cases against him; this included a case of buffalo stealing. He survived in jail in Balochistan, courtesy of Governor Akbar Bugti, who refused to do him harm. Small wonder that after Bhuttos hanging, Zahoor Elahi requested and received the pen that Zia had used to reject the mercy petitions for Bhutto. Mian Tufail, was scandalously manhandled in jail, writes Sher Baz Mazari in his autobiography, AJourney to Disillusionment; it was rumored at the time, that a naked prostitute was sent in to his cell to humiliate the Amir of JI. At the height of crises that eventually toppled him, Bhutto rushed in to see Maudoodi in Ichra; one wonders whether the founder of JI reminded ZAB of the treatment given out to his successor. Barrister F. Ibrahim, who was later to become chief justice of Supreme Court, used to share the legal chamber with Bhutto in Karachi, in the 50s. Bhutto was very generous, but I sensed a streak of violence in him, a certain mean or vindictive quality, he told Stanley Wolpert, the author of Zulfi Bhuttoof Pakistan.

Mukhtar Rana, a PPP MNA from Lyallpur, had earned the wrath of his leader by his divergent views. He was deposed as MNA, arrested, and after being subjected to severe physical abuseaccording to one report, he almost died under torturewas convicted in a military court and sentenced to five-year term of imprisonment, all in a matter of days. Ustad Daman, dervish Punjabi poet, made the cardinal error of writing an anti-Bhutto poem; he had a case registered against him---he was accused of being in possession of a hand grenade.

Kaswar Gardezi, was one of many to suffer vicious brutality; here is Mazaris narrative: In a voice breaking with emotion, Gardezi related his horrifying experience to me. The police presented him with an egg, a potato and an onion, he said, and then asked which of these will he prefer to be inserted in to his anus. After undergoing this humiliation and barbaric ordeal, he was then threatened with sodomy; to his good fortune, this threat was never carried out. Instead, he was badly beaten with a stout cane, after which he was forced to lie naked on a solid slab of ice.At the time, Gardezi was Secretary General of the NAP, one of the leading opposition parties. Some people have been accused of going to irrational lengths in their hatred of Bhutto; incidents like above, are perhaps, the explanation for this.

One has to remember that Bhuttos own associates were not spared his wrath; J.A. Rahim, a senior member of the cabinet, learned this lesson the hard way. He annoyed Bhutto once by leaving early from a dinner hosted by the PM. Rahim also made the mistake of showing his resentment by calling Bhutto, Raja of Larkana. What follows is how Rahim described this horrifying experience to Wolpert: On reaching home, I went to bed. . . . About 1 A.M., I was woken up by my servant who said that there was a crowd of people before the house. . . . Some men of the FSF were climbing up the front balcony for the purpose of entering my bedroom. . . . I went to the front door downstairs. . . . Saeed Ahmad Khan, Chief of PMs Security, who was at the head of that mob of armed FSF thugs, answered that he had come to deliver a message from the PM. . . . As the door opened, they rushed in . . . . Besides being beaten by fists, I was hit by rifle *****. I was thrown to the ground and hit while prostrate. . . . I lost consciousness. . . . I was dragged by my legs, then thrown in to a jeep. . . . bleeding profusely. Intellectually brilliant, Rahim had retired as Pakistans ambassador to France, had been one of the founding members of PPP, and had written its manifesto.

Khalid Hasan was once asked by Bhutto to check out a certain person in Lahore. I found out that the man was saying bad things about Bhutto all over the place, Khalid writes. I came back and told Bhutto. His brow furrowed. His credit in my book has not quite run out yet, he said. I shuddered to think what would happen when the mans credit did run out.

Malik Meraj Khalid, in his biography, Merajnama, describes the extent to which Bhutto and Khar could go to harass their political opponents. Meraj Khalid once received a phone call from Zahoor Elahis daughter, whose admission to Lahore College of Home Economics had been blocked by Khar. By nature a decent man, Meraj had to call Bhutto personally to rectify this. On another occasion, Meraj had to call ZAB again to stop Khars plans to set on fire the house on Davis Road, Lahore where Asghar Khan was staying. Asghar Khan was not so lucky with his house in Abbotabad though; it did burn to the ground in very suspicious circumstances.

No account of Bhuttos Awami Raj is complete without Dalai Camp. It will be fair to call it Bhuttos Gotanamo Bay. It was used to secretly detain, three political dissidents (Iftikhar Tari, Ch. Irshad and Mian Aslam). These individuals were former PPP members, who had fallen out with Bhutto and left PPP along with Khar. As I recall, two of them had been former provincial ministers. Fearing arrest, some of them had been granted bail before arrest by the high court. They vanished without trace one day, having been picked up by FSF and were only recovered when Bhutto was deposed. Iftikhar Tari, who had the reputation of a goon, appeared broken after release. He narrated his ordeal on TV and could not stop crying in a program called, Zulm ki dastanay.

Bhutto could not forgive. Mazari recounts the following in his memoirs: Back in the 50s, Sir Shah Nawaz (Bhuttos father) went to see Ayub Khuro, who was then CM of Sindh. Bhutto went along. Khuro slighted them by making them wait for half an hour in the verandah, and then drinking tea without offering them any. Swallowing his pride, elder Bhutto requested the Sindhi politician for a job for his son in the foreign service. Khuro listened to the request and asked the elder Bhutto to submit an application in writing to him. He then dismissed them cursorily with a wave of his hand. Later in 1972, as soon as Bhutto achieved power, one of his first acts was to humiliate Khuro by having the walls to his home in Larkana razed to the ground.At times, Bhuttos sensitivity reached absurd levels. Mazari notes: In the mid 50s, Ahmed Nawaz Bugti was hosting a table for some foreign ladies at Le Gourmet. Bhutto, who was present at the restaurant, spotted him and asked if he could join the group. Knowing his reputation with women, Bugti declined. Years later, Bhutto visited Quetta as President, to attend a formal dinner held by Governor Bazinjo for Princess Ashraf of Iran. Seated at the high table, he sighted Bugti, who was then Balochistans finance minister, dining at a less august table than his. Bhutto asked his ADC to bring Bugti to his table, looked at him and said, Do you remember the time when you would not let me sit at your table? Well this time, I wont let you sit at mine.

Here is another eye opener for Bhutto fans; this is again written in Mazaris autobiography: Over dinner at the Governors House, Arbab Sikander Khalil, related a rather strange and unsettling story to me. It seemed that Bhutto had recently visited Peshawar and while staying at the Government House, had requested Arbab Sikander for a supply of whisky. The Governor politely informed ZAB that as he did not imbibe alcohol, he was unable to provide the President with liquor. Bhutto then sent his airplane to Islamabad to fetch whisky. When the plane returned that evening, it not only brought alcohol but also, a Federal Ministers wife too, to keep Bhutto company.

Here is an excerpt from Stanley Wolperts book, Zulfi Bhutto of Pakistan: One of the women Zulfi met at a cocktail party that fall (1963) was Rita Dhar, daughter of V. Lakshmi Pandit, the first woman president of the General Assembly. Mrs. Dhar recalled how immediately after meeting her, Zulfi eyed her lasciviously, inviting her to his apartment. Nehrus niece apparently declined to Bhuttos chagrin. Pakistans young foreign minister was in NY to attend the annual session of General Assembly. Ardsher Cowasjee told Wolper that Nusrat Bhutto had once attempted suicide and was hospitalized in Parsi hospital, Karachi with a drug overdose; on another occasion, she approached Ayub Khan, through Nancy Cowasjee, after having been thrown out of her own house by her faithless husband. She was staying in Mrs. Davies Private Hotel in Rawalpindi. It is to her credit that she stuck to her husband as he continued his love affairs.

A myth that refuses to go away is that opposition and Bhutto had reached an agreement and army sabotaged it; the facts speak quite otherwise. Here is Mazaris account: At 10 P.M., on July 3 rd,Mufti Mahmood, Prof Ghafoor and Nawabzada Nasrullah, handed over the additional nine points to Bhutto. Having consulted Pirzada and Niazi, Bhutto returned to the PNA team and told them that he needed time for further consultation. According to Prof. Ghafoor, Bhuttos attitude appeared accommodating; but only two hours later, his stance hardened dramatically. Addressing a press conference at midnight July 3rd, he lambasted the PNA negotiating team for repudiating their earlier agreement. It was clear to all that the PPP-PNA talks had broken down once again. Gen K.M. Arif gives a very similar account of events in his book, Working with Zia. Arif quotes General Gilani, ISI chief at the time, that both him as well as Rao Rashid, newly appointed Director of Intelligence, had warned Bhutto repeatedly that the armys patience had been exhausted and it was planning to act very soon. KH has also, devoted many pages of his book to crises of 1977. Here is an excerpt: Tikka Khan (Bhuttos adviser at the time) told the PM, in the presence of Zia and Corps commanders, Sir, I would say we wipe out five or six thousand of their(PNAs)men. That will cool them off. Tikka Khans mindless remark convinced Zia and his Corps Commanders that Bhutto and his men were bent upon doing just some such thing.

Gen. Gul Hasan and Air Marshal Rahim Khan had played a key role in bringing Bhutto to power. They were both dismissed in a most humiliating way, having been forced to sign their resignations, taken hostage and then driven to Lahore in the company of pistol packing Jatoi, Mumtaz Bhutto and Khar. Years later, while awaiting his fate in jail, Bhutto accused Zia of biting the hand that fed him. He had conveniently forgotten his own treatment of Ayub, Gul Hasan and Rahim.

Bhutto trusted nobody, KH notes. He was troubled by what he considered unrealistic and idealistic liberal approach to press freedom, basic rights and government by law. Long before his overthrow, he had deprived himself of those who were capable of honest and wise advice. . . .and chosen to exercise power through civilian and military bureaucracy that he had once denounced. After his overthrow, he told Inam AzizBhuttos last interview---that he now understood where he might have gone wrong. He said he wanted to start all over again, back to the real fountainhead of power. But history is merciless, Khalid laments, and had moved on.

Mazaris assessment is similar to KHs: The press had to bear ZABs determined onslaught. As soon as he attained power, he dismissed the chairman of National Press Trust (that he had vowed to abolish) and the editor of Pakistan Times. His rival from the Ayub days, Altaf Gauhar, who was then the editor of Dawn, was placed under arrest. The printer, editor and publisher of Urdu Digest, Zindgi and Punjab Punch were arrested for protesting against ZABs martial law, were convicted and sentenced even before the writ petitions challenging their arrests could be heard in the Lahore High Court. Shorish Kashmiri of Chataan was also sent to jail;Hurreyet and Jasarat were banned and their editors imprisoned. Mehranwas banned while Iqbal Burnis weekly Outlook was forced in to shutting down its publication.This is by no means an all inclusive list of the journals and newspapers that suffered.

KH has analyzed the issue of rigging in 1977 elections: As far the rigging, it was so unnecessary because he was going to win big anyway. There is no evidence that he ordered the rigging, but he did not exercise the vigilance that it was his duty to do as PM and chairman of the ruling party. His own unopposed election from Larkana encouraged the lesser figures in the party to use the muscle of the state wherever possible to ensure their individual victory. The first angled brick that Bhutto built was laid by the unanimous and unopposed election of the PM himself. This less than laudable example was followed by his CMs and some other PPP leaders in the four provinces. His rival Jan M. Abbasi of JI had -been kidnapped earlier, to keep him from filing his papers. Wolpert traces this back to highly unexpected defeat of Bhuttos father Sir Shah Nawaz in 1937, at the hands of Sh. Majid Sindhi. Young Zulfi may have taken too much to heart, the lesson of his fathers election defeat, resolving even at his tender age, never to risk losing an election, no matter how high a price need to be paid to insure victory.

ZABs intolerance had no limits. On 23rd March 1973, an opposition rally at Liaquat Bagh, Rawalpindi was disrupted. Here is the eye witness account by Ch. Sardar, who was SP Police at the time: It was in the air that armed workers would be present in the public meeting. . . .then came reports that that armed PPP workers were also coming to the same public meeting. . . .by midday, we received information that large conveys of PPP crowds were coming from Punjab and some of them were armed as well. . . .DSP City told me that he saw some FSF men in plain clothes and suspected their involvement---On the FSF involvement, I was really shocked.The violence at Liaquat Bagh led to eleven deaths and hundreds of serious injuries. Almost four decades later, BB was assassinated at the gate of the same Liaquat Bagh; was this divine retribution? One has to wonder.

Arthur Kessler once wrote that nothing is more sad than the death of an illusion. Many of Bhutto admirers never knew him first hand; one wonders what their reaction would have been, had they seen their leaders behavior at close quarters. Back to the apology, demanded by Balawal, I am not sure if the Bhutto family deserves an apology for his hanging. One should certainly ask whether the Oxford educated Balawal has the moral strength to offer one to the families of those who suffered his esteemed grandfathers vengeance.

(The writer is a physician, based in Williamsport, PA, and may be reached at asifjaved@comcast.net )

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## asad71

1.To whet his ambition, this rascal conspired to push Pakistan into the 1965 War without requisite preparation. And then in 1971 he master-minded the annulment of original Pakistan just because he could be head of a new nation in the Western wing.

2. I have little doubt that Zia executed him not for the Kasuri killing, but his 1971 treachery.

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## PlanetSoldier

kalu_miah said:


> I think both nations are teaching wrong and fictitious history, may be that is the source of confusion for both.



When history is taught, it's wrong or one sided...simple. When you yourself have the thirst to learn it, there's a possibility of learning the right one. It's not only here in SA, throughout the world there are many histories fed to kids framing with comfortable information.

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## kalu_miah

@asad71 Bhai, thanks for posting the article above. It mentions Khalid Hasan, a close associate of Bhutto. Here is what he had to say:

Did Bhutto break up Pakistan? -DAWN - Books and Authors; December 15, 2002
1971: what went wrong :

According to him Yahya Khan's personal ambition and unwillingness to give up power to elected representatives was responsible for the breakup of Pakistan.

After reading the above two, I got the distinct feeling that Pakistan Army top generals were not very close to Bhutto, so he could not have been party to the planning process of Operation Searchlight. So in a way Khalid Hasan's views and mine matches that Yahya Khan and the generals who were involved in planning Operation Searchlight were largely responsible for the break up of Pakistan, Bhutto's role was negligible and indirect. Not all Generals agreed, and they were relieved of duty.

The reason for planning this operation was to neutralize Awami League activists who have started killing of Bihari's from early March, 1971. My personal view is that the leaders that were leading at that time from both sides, did not understand the implications of their actions. Awami League activists were guilty for targeting Bihari's, but deploying Army to crush criminal acts by a small unruly section of Awami League, was an over reaction. Law enforcement problems should have been solved by local law enforcement personnel, not Armed forces flown in from the Western wing to disarm and neutralize essentially all Bengali armed men in all branches of govt. That precisely was the mistake that sparked a war of resistance and independence.

In an affidavit Yahya Khan admits that he was the one who decided to go ahead with Operation Searchlight to use the Army to crush the uprising, although he himself blames Bhutto and India, but not Mujib, for the breakup of Pakistan, still being delusional about the gravity of what he had done:

http://216.167.195.113/why_how_what_forum.aspx?GroupID=5&ArticleID=9383

"After a long spell of illness, this military ruler finally breathed his last in August 1980 in the house of his brother Muhammed Ali in Lahore.

In his affidavit, Yahya Khan states how the government had been pushed back against the wall. Awami League President Sheikh Mujibur Rahman gained immense power and Yahya Khan could not accept his attitude. *He says that Mujib had brought the administration to a standstill. This was unacceptable, intolerable. This was a rebellion against the government. He says that there was no alternative to military action against this uprising. He says he did not launch Operation Searchlight on March 25, 1971 at the behest of Bhutto or anyone else. He issued these order in his capacity as President and Army Chief in order to quell the uprising.*

*Yahya Khan, in this document, is unwilling to accept that the cessation of East Pakistan and the surrender of the Pakistan army as a military defeat. He says this is was a naked conspiracy of India. He berates India and Russia for their role in this regard and has all gratitude for the United States and China for their support. He terms Mujib as a patriot, but says that Awami League had a section of radical leftists who were instigating him.They did not want to relinquish the opportunity to materialise India's long cherished dream of breaking up Pakistan.*

*According to Yahya Khan, it was Tikka Khan who issued the orders to capture Mujib dead or alive. Bhutto had wanted to hang Mujib. Mujib was prepared to change his six-point demand if necessary. The news of America's Seventh Fleet and China's involvement in the war were rumours. Yahya claims that in the end he wanted to leave East Pakistan's power in the hands of Awami League.*"

It looks like I am agreeing Yahya Khan at least on this point, that Mujib did not want breakup of Pakistan, unlike some radical leftists within his party. Yahya Khan blames Bhutto and India for the breakup, but I personally blame Yahya Khan and other planners and executors of Operation Searchlight.


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## Tameem

kalu_miah said:


> I know, Pakistan and Bangladesh have different worries and preoccupations. That is why I said:
> "move forward on improving relations and work together on world stage, *if such opportunities present themselves* or at least not try to undermine each others interest"
> 
> I am thinking of a theoretical model for a general Sino-Muslim alliance of sorts, by developing closer relations between GCC states and China, in the coming decades. Hopefully Pakistan will be supportive of this concept and will not have reservations to see other Muslim nations such as Turkey, Egypt, Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh etc., coming on board and getting closer to both GCC states and China, both of whom are close traditional allies of Pakistan.


 @kalu_miah

So you want to get Bangladeshis enters in another but grand Muslim alliance this time after they failed miserably in previous short.

For your informationPakistanis are the only Muslims in whole universe who are pro Ummah, who demonstrates and forms physically a nation solely based on religion while successfully foregoing their independent sovereign Languages, races & ethnicities collectively..i mean if you cant get along with Pakistanis.how could you think arrogant Bengalis could share their will with more ethnically proud people like Arabs, Persians & Turks.


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## kalu_miah

Tameem said:


> @kalu_miah
> 
> So you want to get Bangladeshis enters in another but grand Muslim alliance this time after they failed miserably in previous short.
> 
> For your information&#8230;&#8230;Pakistanis are the only Muslims in whole universe who are pro Ummah, who demonstrates and forms physically a nation solely based on religion while successfully foregoing their independent sovereign Languages, races & ethnicities collectively&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..i mean if you can&#8217;t get along with Pakistanis&#8230;.how could you think arrogant Bengalis could share their will with more ethnically proud people like Arabs, Persians & Turks&#8230;.



Lets put everything in context here:

1. It was not us Bengali's who monopolized all sections of govt., industry and military personnel
2. Yes there was some traitors among Bengali's who collaborated with India, they were used to instigate
3. But the main reason for the breakup was the heavy handed approach of Yahya Khan and his cohorts, applying a disproportionate and excessive military solution to a law and order and political problem

So your attempt to blame the breakup on us "arrogant" Bengali's is lame to put it mildly.

In any event, I do not hold all of Pakistan's population responsible for Yahya Khan and his associates stupidity. Pakistan has a great future, just like we in Bangladesh do, regardless of what happened in the past. And all of us Muslims have too much at stake to ruin our future, just because some idiots from both sides made wrong decisions at some critical juncture in the past.

Instead of bad mouthing and trying to undermine Bangladesh interest, I would advise you to think more constructively. Besides no one is talking about some Muslim Union of any kind, such a drastic move is not acceptable to anyone, instead my emphasis is mainly about bilateral and multi-lateral cooperation in defense, economy, industry etc., whenever possible, without loosing any sovereignty.

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## Tameem

kalu_miah said:


> Lets put everything in context here:
> 
> 1. It was not us Bengali's who monopolized all sections of govt., industry and military personnel
> 2. Yes there was some traitors among Bengali's who collaborated with India, they were used to instigate
> 3. But the main reason for the breakup was the heavy handed approach of Yahya Khan and his cohorts, applying a disproportionate and excessive military solution to a law and order and political problem
> 
> *So your attempt to blame the breakup on us "arrogant" Bengali's is lame to put it mildly*.



The fact Mujib won landslide support amongst all Bengalis is enough to believe it otherwise.



kalu_miah said:


> In any event, I do not hold all of Pakistan's population responsible for Yahya Khan and his associates stupidity. Pakistan has a great future, just like we in Bangladesh do, regardless of what happened in the past. And all of us Muslims have too much at stake to ruin our future, just because some idiots from both sides made wrong decisions at some critical juncture in the past.



Agree



kalu_miah said:


> Instead of bad mouthing and trying to undermine Bangladesh interest, I would advise you to think more constructively. Besides no one is talking about some Muslim Union of any kind, such a drastic move is not acceptable to anyone, instead my emphasis is mainly about bilateral and multi-lateral cooperation in defense, economy, industry etc., whenever possible, without loosing any sovereignty.



Bilateral is not Pakistans headache but multi-lateral and that too on the basis of religion in the first place..sure we have deep reservations when it comes to Bengalis.


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## PlanetSoldier

Tameem said:


> The fact Mujib won landslide support amongst all Bengalis is enough to believe it otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Agree
> 
> 
> 
> Bilateral is not Pakistan&#8217;s headache but multi-lateral and that too on the basis of religion in the first place&#8230;..*sure we have deep reservations when it comes to Bengalis*.



Yeah we know...it's an old story. First Bengali prime minister Suhrawardy was thrown by West Pakistani general, then again another elect Bengali prime minister was not given his legal position by West Pakistani after 1970 election....thanks for being straightforward.

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## Tameem

PlanetSoldier said:


> Yeah we know...it's an old story. First Bengali prime minister Suhrawardy was thrown by West Pakistani general,



Sad....but a lot before that Bengalis already blackmailing on the basis of "Language" (1952)



PlanetSoldier said:


> then again another elect Bengali prime minister was not given his legal position by West Pakistani after 1970 election



Again a lot before that the same person is involved in "Agartala conspiracy"



PlanetSoldier said:


> ....thanks for being straightforward.



You'r Welcom!


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## kalu_miah

Tameem said:


> *The fact Mujib won landslide support amongst all Bengalis is enough to believe it otherwise.*
> 
> Agree
> 
> Bilateral is not Pakistans headache but multi-lateral and that too on the basis of religion in the first place..*sure we* have deep reservations when it comes to Bengalis.



How does the fact that Mujib won landslide support among Bengali's is enough for you to reach the conclusion that Bengali's in then East Pakistan were arrogant and/or wanted breakup of Pakistan? As far as I know Mujib himself did not want breakup of Pakistan, nor did the majority of the population, including my own family, which I know of first hand. In then East Pakistan, the popular support was for autonomy but not separation. But everything changed after the military crackdown on the night of 25th March, which we call the Black Night (Kalo Ratri in Bengali).

Who, is we? You can say you personally have reservations, but I doubt if you can use the word "we". Pakistan happens to be a fully active member of OIC, of which Bangladesh is also a member of, how do you explain that fact then?

And you should also look at the current status of Pakistan-Bangladesh bilateral relations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh–Pakistan_relations

*Defense Cooperation*

Defense cooperation improved considerably under the military regimes of Ziaur Rahman and Hossain Mohammad Ershad in Bangladesh, which had grown more distant from its war ally, India. Common concerns over India's regional power have influenced strategic cooperation leading to a gift of several squadrons of F-6 fighter aircraft to the Bangladesh Air Force in the late 1980s.[15]

*Trade*

Bilateral trade between the two countries has been growing slowly over the past years. During the eleven-year period between 200001 and 201011, Pakistan export to Bangladesh grew at an average annual rate of 27.6 percent and imports from Bangladesh grew at the rate of 9.2 percent. The total value of trade (export plus import) between the two countries in 2010-11 was about $983 million. To give a boost to bilateral trade between Pakistan and Bangladesh both countries have decided to finalise a bilateral Free Trade Agreement. FTA will pave the way for opening trade opportunity and will help expansion of trade between the two countries.[16]

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## kalu_miah

Tameem said:


> Sad....but a lot before that Bengalis already blackmailing on the basis of "Language" (1952)
> 
> *Again a lot before that the same person is involved in "Agartala conspiracy"*
> 
> You'r Welcom!



Can you prove that Sheikh Mujib was involved in "Agartala conspiracy"? Ayub Khan could not. Why, because it was a true case that involved other small time RAW agents in then East Pakistan, but not Sheikh Mujib, he was falsely accused. And Ayub Khan knew all this as it was common knowledge among Army top echelons who had access to intelligence information. But Ayub Khan tried to use this case anyways to put the label on Mujib as traitor, to crush him politically and to destroy his support among Bengali's in East Pakistan, who would never accept a traitor as their leader. Unfortunately, the plan backfired. It could not be proven that Mujib was not involved in Agartala case, because he really was not. The case fell apart and Ayub Khan himself had to resign as a result of this fiasco. And Mujib a relatively unknown leader of not very high quality (I consider him a thug and a goon of Suhrawardi who never grew up to be anything better), became the most popular leader and voice of then East Pakistan.

So in brief, the brilliant Ayub Khan set the background for 1970 election win of Mujib led Awami League and then another genius Yahya Khan, set foot in the trap setup by Indian RAW instigation and broke Pakistan with his brilliant Operation Searchlight. If it was not for the incompetence of these two generals, my guess is that Pakistan would not have broken, at least not in this way. It could be an amicable separation like the bloodless velvet divorce between Czechs and Slovaks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_Czechoslovakia

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## Musalman

Didn't deputy speaker of BD assembly confused that Agrthala was true and they decided to part ways with Pakistan in 69


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## PlanetSoldier

kalu_miah said:


> Can you prove that Sheikh Mujib was involved in "Agartala conspiracy"? Ayub Khan could not. Why, because it was a true case that involved other small time RAW agents in then East Pakistan, but not Sheikh Mujib, he was falsely accused. And Ayub Khan knew all this as it was common knowledge among Army top echelons who had access to intelligence information. But Ayub Khan tried to use this case anyways to put the label on Mujib as traitor, to crush him politically and to destroy his support among Bengali's in East Pakistan, who would never accept a traitor as their leader. Unfortunately, the plan backfired. It could not be proven that Mujib was not involved in Agartala case, because he really was not. The case fell apart and Ayub Khan himself had to resign as a result of this fiasco. And Mujib a relatively unknown leader of not very high quality (I consider him a thug and a goon of Suhrawardi who never grew up to be anything better), became the most popular leader and voice of then East Pakistan.
> 
> So in brief, the brilliant Ayub Khan set the background for 1970 election win of Mujib led Awami League and then another genius Yahya Khan, set foot in the trap setup by Indian RAW instigation and broke Pakistan with his brilliant Operation Searchlight. If it was not for the incompetence of these two generals, my guess is that Pakistan would not have broken, at least not in this way. It could be an amicable separation like the bloodless velvet divorce between Czechs and Slovaks:
> Dissolution of Czechoslovakia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



What's the point arguing with them who can't even judge on neutral basis and then mix the emotion? See how easier it's for them to accuse Mujib of Agartala conspiracy but how many of them have you seen blaming those Bhutto and Yahya who broke two wings? They can't, probably this is the root cause that actually broke the then Pakistan....they don't open eyes. 

Moreover, it wouldn't be possible ever to stay together..bad is it had gone through bloodshed.

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## Chak Bamu

@kalu_miah, Muslims can not ignore Ummah feelings, but it is important to understand the limitations of Ummah concept in current times.

The best that can be hoped for is the formation of a club of Muslim democracies for positive improvements in our part of the world. A small budget allocated to social uplift projects overseen by experienced parlimentarians can be a tentative start. This program can later be enlarged to include disaster relief, growth of mature political systems, and higher education. We can aim for something like EU, but not as binding with single currency and uniform policies. Defence cooperation can come last in this progression (like NATO) but only after models of conflict resolution are firmly in place. An organization that oversees all these efforts can elect its own leader with limited powers and checks & balances. Someone who leads by personal example and acts as an inspiration to Muslims.

Nothing good will come out of Gulf Arabs anytime soon. China has its own interests. Each country must focus on political maturity and cooperation with others to provide impetus to a movement that leads to the above scenario. Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, Malaysia, Iran, Indonesia, and other Muslim democracies can participate in just such a project. Arabs can join when and if they evolve politically.

Right now Bangladesh politics seems to be a mess. But it shall not stay that way for ever. Pakistan is also struggling. But whichever way you look at it, this is the only way we can all come together on a program of positive cooperation that does not evoke reaction, suspicion, and resistance from others.

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## Tameem

PlanetSoldier said:


> What's the point arguing with them who can't even judge on neutral basis and then mix the emotion? See how easier it's for them to accuse Mujib of Agartala conspiracy but how many of them have you seen blaming those Bhutto and Yahya who broke two wings? They can't, probably this is the root cause that actually broke the then Pakistan....they don't open eyes.
> 
> Moreover, it wouldn't be possible ever to stay together..bad is it had gone through bloodshed.



Mr. everyone could have grievances even within family but no one conspires and went straight to enemies against their very own ..Does it?? We didnt deny that Bengalis are sidelined in west Pakistanis establishment but at the first place they are military establishment not a democratic, instead of striving hard against them and taking on board the west Pakistani people as well somehow down the line, you and your leaders pick the easy routeand crossed the red line from starts!! What military establishment did finally in reply as every such govt does..reciprocates in the same manner......Finish it by themselves!

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## khair_ctg

PlanetSoldier said:


> What's the point arguing with them who can't even judge on neutral basis and then mix the emotion? See how easier it's for them to accuse Mujib of Agartala conspiracy but how many of them have you seen blaming those Bhutto and Yahya who broke two wings? They can't, probably this is the root cause that actually broke the then Pakistan....they don't open eyes.
> 
> Moreover, it wouldn't be possible ever to stay together..bad is it had gone through bloodshed.



"they don't open [their] eyes".. ok then maybe we Bengalis had not yet grown a pair of eyes. i liked how kalu_mian gave the example of Czechs' and Slovaks' amicable separation. and moreover, you cannot absolutely reject the idea of one-country-two-wings and still babble on that West Pakistanis were responsible for the breakup. East and West Pakistan were already separated in 1947 - what a more sensible or a more skilled handling of the situation from both wings would have done was to prevent a roll over (physically and figuratively) of one of them by a hostile country, and to preserve the very constitution that marks the existence of that more unfortunate of the two wings

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## kalu_miah

PlanetSoldier said:


> What's the point arguing with them who can't even judge on neutral basis and then mix the emotion? See how easier it's for them to accuse Mujib of Agartala conspiracy but how many of them have you seen blaming those Bhutto and Yahya who broke two wings? They can't, probably this is the root cause that actually broke the then Pakistan....they don't open eyes.
> 
> Moreover, it wouldn't be possible ever to stay together..bad is it had gone through bloodshed.



Its not arguing for arguments sake, but presenting facts and points of view that stands up to scrutiny of sensible and knowledgeable people from all sides. This way we can clear up confusion created by propaganda. I am here to learn from all, not just to share my own point of view, provided that the argument presented makes logical sense and is backed up with some first hand evidence, such as experience recorded by people who were active in person in the war theater.

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## kalu_miah

Chak Bamu said:


> @kalu_miah, Muslims can not ignore Ummah feelings, but it is important to understand the limitations of Ummah concept in current times.
> 
> The best that can be hoped for is the formation of a club of Muslim democracies for positive improvements in our part of the world. A small budget allocated to social uplift projects overseen by experienced parlimentarians can be a tentative start. This program can later be enlarged to include disaster relief, growth of mature political systems, and higher education. We can aim for something like EU, but not as binding with single currency and uniform policies. Defence cooperation can come last in this progression (like NATO) but only after models of conflict resolution are firmly in place. An organization that oversees all these efforts can elect its own leader with limited powers and checks & balances. Someone who leads by personal example and acts as an inspiration to Muslims.
> 
> Nothing good will come out of Gulf Arabs anytime soon. China has its own interests. Each country must focus on political maturity and cooperation with others to provide impetus to a movement that leads to the above scenario. Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, Malaysia, Iran, Indonesia, and other Muslim democracies can participate in just such a project. Arabs can join when and if they evolve politically.
> 
> Right now Bangladesh politics seems to be a mess. But it shall not stay that way for ever. Pakistan is also struggling. But whichever way you look at it, this is the only way we can all come together on a program of positive cooperation that does not evoke reaction, suspicion, and resistance from others.



Agree with most of your post, except for the role of GCC countries. I believe they can and will make a big difference, if all of us are mature about them. If powerful countries like USA, China and India can woo them to be in good terms with them, the collection of large Muslim countries should do the same. Iran of course will not take part in such efforts. And I do not believe Iran will work with the countries you have mentioned for their development, the track record of this regime since 1979 tells us a different story. GCC countries for many decades, as soon as they had surplus budget have been pillars of other Muslim countries, providing jobs and giving grant for development projects, while Iran did that since 1979, but only for people of their own sect.


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## kalu_miah

Musalman said:


> Didn't deputy speaker of BD assembly confused that Agrthala was true and they decided to part ways with Pakistan in 69



http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...hat-does-mean-our-history-20.html#post4078659
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...hat-does-mean-our-history-19.html#post4076075
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...hat-does-mean-our-history-19.html#post4078513

The answer contains in the above thread, but the 3 posts above should give you a quick summary. The Deputy speaker idiot was lying.


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## asad71

1.Shawkat Ali was a supporter of Razzaq and had remained in BAKSAL after BAL was revived under Hasina. Later both Razzaq and he joined BAL. But Hasina hasn't forgiven him. She has found it convenient to use him. He has no support group/syndicate in BAL. While serving in the army, Minister Phani Bhushan was his mentor. That connection in BAL/BAKSAL had made him a powerful figure in pre-1975 BA.

2. Shawkat has been totally humiliated by SHW when she appointed a much junior non-elected women-quota MP as the Speaker bypassing him. He had to accept this ill-treatment because he is weak within BAL. But more important is his hope that SHW will allow his son to contest in his constituency next time.


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## illusion8

Gary Bass’ new book, “Blood Telegram: Nixon, Kissinger and a Forgotten Genocide”, could not have been better timed. *The book sets the record straight of a disgraceful period in US foreign policy*. The complicity of former US President Richard Nixon and former US Secretary of State Dr. Henry Kissinger in the Pakistan army’s genocide in erstwhile East Pakistan in 1970-71 is described in brutal detail based on recently declassified material.


Former Bangladesh president Begum Khaleda Zia, widow of assassinated former President Ziaur Rahman, has intensified her campaign to oust Sheikh Hasina, daughter of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, founding father of Bangladesh, in the forthcoming January 2014 general election. Begum Khaleda Zia represents fundamentalist Islamist forces who hope to topple the pro-India Hasina government which has curbed jehadi terrorism directed at India from Bangladesh.


*After Sheikh Mujibur Rahman’s Awami League won a landslide victory in the 1970 Pakistan election, West Pakistan’s Punjabi-dominated army generals and politicians arrested him. Over five lakh East Pakistani Bengalis were massacred by the Pakistan army. Nearly 10 million became refugees. Whole villages in East Pakistan were burnt. The Hindu minority was the main target.*


*Millions fled to India. As The Economist writes: “Hindus, as a distinct minority, were chosen for annihilation and expulsion. At the behest of Mr Kissinger, Nixon sent military planes and other materiel to Pakistan, even though he knew this broke American law. He deployed an American naval task force to the Bay of Bengal to intimidate India, which had begun helping rebels in East Pakistan. Most extreme, he secretly asked China to send troops to India’s borders.*


*“Nixon and Mr Kissinger stood with Pakistan, even as they knew of the extent of the slaughter. *Their own diplomats told them about it. The centerpiece of Mr Bass’s gripping and well-researched book is the story of how America’s most senior diplomat in East Pakistan, 


*Archer Blood, the consul-general in Dhaka, sent regular, detailed and accurate reports of the bloodshed. Early on he stated that a ‘selective genocide’ was under way.*


*“Blood and his colleagues protested that America should not support Pakistan’s rulers. Then, 20 of them sent a dissenting telegram (the ‘Blood telegram’ of the book’s title) condemning America’s policy.* 

*It was an extreme and idealistic step for a diplomat, whose career was soon cut short. Though the telegram did not change American policy, it rates as an historic document. Such open dissent is extremely rare*.


*“Nixon, a man of few friends, was notably fond of Pakistan’s military ruler, Yahya Khan, a gruff, dim-witted, whisky-drinking general. By contrast he despised India’s wheedling civilian politicians, reserving a particular dislike for (Indira) Gandhi.”*


Nixon stands disgraced over Watergate but his willful role in the genocide in East Pakistan had not till now received the full historical attention it deserved. Kissinger too has largely escaped opprobrium for turning a blind eye to the genocide.* Bass quotes him as saying: “You can’t go to war over refugees.” Nixon, whose dislike for India was visceral, said a “mass famine” was needed to “cut Indians down to size”.*


Kissinger shared the Nobel Peace Prize in 1973 for his mediation that brought the Vietnam war to an end. Through the 1980s, Kissinger was feted as a global statesman. His firm, Kissinger Associates, advised prime ministers and presidents. He charged, and was paid, a large fee to speak at summits and conclaves, including several in India. 


His syndicated column was published in newspapers and magazines worldwide. We too were part of the Kissinger “industry”. Through this period, one of our media group’s publications,_Gentleman,_a literary and political monthly, published his column for nearly a decade along with columns by I.K. Gujral, Shashi Tharoor, L.K. Advani, Dom Moraes and others. It is a decision I now regret. 


It was only years later that details trickled through about Kissinger’s role in the events preceding the Bangladesh war and his malign role in the war itself which ended in 13 days after the surrender of 90,000 Pakistan troops in East Pakistan.

* * *​
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/headon/entry/blood-telegram-the-forgotten-genocide

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## illusion8



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*



Over five lakh East Pakistani Bengalis were massacred by the Pakistan army

Click to expand...

**
No it was 3 million! lol... 





After another decade bs figure will be as low as 30 thousand...*

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## illusion8

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *No it was 3 million! lol...
> 
> 
> 
> After another decade bs figure will be as low as 30 thousand...*



According to Pakistani's there was no genocide at all.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

illusion8 said:


> According to Pakistani's there was no genocide at all.



There wasnt.. even many indians agree ... Sarmila Bose... "_Dead Reckoning: Memories of the 1971 Bangladesh War"..

*3 million >5 lac>30k....?*

LMAO!_


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## DESERT FIGHTER

GURU DUTT said:


> oh realli then what is this
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://muktadhara.net/page35.html&h=gAQGKxw8N
> 
> no wonder pakistan is in such state cause "jo qume tareekh ko mask karti hain tareekh bhi unke saath wahi sulookh karti hai ..Hassn Nisar"



*Please be careful*
For the safety and privacy of your Facebook account, remember to never enter your password unless you're on the real Facebook web site. Also be sure to only download software from sites you trust. Learn more about keeping your account secure.

http://muktadhara.net/page35.html


Thanks for tht FB page...lmao @ u.


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## GURU DUTT

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Please be careful*
> For the safety and privacy of your Facebook account, remember to never enter your password unless you're on the real Facebook web site. Also be sure to only download software from sites you trust. Learn more about keeping your account secure.
> 
> http://muktadhara.net/page35.html
> 
> 
> Thanks for tht FB page...lmao @ u.


he he he your happy about hacking my FB account lolzz go ahead and do that but how easily you forget to look into the matter ..denial is it


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## illusion8

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> There wasnt.. even many indians agree ... Sarmila Bose... "_Dead Reckoning: Memories of the 1971 Bangladesh War"..
> 
> *3 million >5 lac>30k....?*
> 
> LMAO!_




Of course - there wasn't..

PA and Razakars did not even fear for their lives from Bangladeshi vengeance and surrendered to Indian forces for safe passage because there wasn't a genocide.

Also, there were no millions of refugees running away from the killings done by PA and Razakars to Indian borders.

All the current genocidal trials and death sentences awarded to razakars in BD are also fake because there weren't any killings.

In fact there wasn't even a war in 1971 - it was all India and RAW's machinations.

Pakistani leaders offered a fake apology and refute Bangladesh's claim for an apology because there wasn't a genocide.

believe whatever you want - there's a reason why Pakistan is called denialistan.

btw the 5 lakh figure was even before Indian forces entered into the picture and was given on an going genocide.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

illusion8 said:


> Of course - there wasn't..
> 
> PA and Razakars did not even fear for their lives from Bangladeshi vengeance and surrendered to Indian forces for safe passage because there wasn't a genocide.
> 
> Also, there were no millions of refugees running away from the killings done by PA and Razakars to Indian borders.
> 
> All the current genocidal trials and death sentences awarded to razakars in BD are also fake because there weren't any killings.
> 
> In fact there wasn't even a war in 1971 - it was all India and RAW's machinations.
> 
> Pakistani leaders offered a fake apology and refute Bangladesh's claim for an apology because there wasn't a genocide.
> 
> believe whatever you want - there's a reason why Pakistan is called denialistan.
> 
> btw the 5 lakh figure was even before Indian forces entered into the picture and was given on an going genocide.




First clarify the figures before vomiting BS... 3 million?5 lac?30k?

Till than shove these troll threads when the sun doesnt shine... sunshine.


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## illusion8

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> First clarify the figures before vomiting BS... 3 million?5 lac?30k?
> 
> Till than shove these troll threads when the sun doesnt shine... sunshine.




Give me a f ing reason why would I bother to do that? You can shove your comments back from where you draw it out from.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

illusion8 said:


> Give me a f ing reason why would I bother to do that?



I have to give you a reason for tht? lmao u mad sunshine? keep posting BS.. nobody gives a f.. !



> You can shove your comments back from where you draw it out from.



How do you shove comments back to your brain? did u invent such a "shoving" technique while you were "inventing" these concocted bs figures?

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## illusion8

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I have to give you a reason for tht? lmao u mad sunshine? keep posting BS.. nobody gives a f.. !
> 
> 
> 
> How do you shove comments back to your brain? did u invent such a "shoving" tech along with these concocted bs figures?




 

No one's concerned what you think about it kid.

stop replying to me with ridiculous posts.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

illusion8 said:


> No one's concerned what you think about it kid.
> 
> stop replying to me with ridiculous posts.




Your talking abt my country so yeah im a little concerned.. but an indian obsessed with spreading lies.. did you suffer at the hands of evil Pak soldiers in 71 or something?

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## illusion8

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Your talking abt my country so yeah im a little concerned.. but an indian obsessed with spreading lies.. did you suffer at the hands of evil Pak soldiers in 71 or something?





Evil Pak soldiers?? 

They weren't looking all that evil when they were laying down their arms in their thousands at Indian army soldiers feet's and begging for safe passage out of Bangladesh, they were looking scared.


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## Ammyy

illusion8 said:


> According to Pakistani's there was no genocide at all.



And for no reason Bangladeshi trow them out ??


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## illusion8

Ammyy said:


> And for no reason Bangladeshi trow them out ??






I guess it was only a love affair gone wrong.


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## Thirdfront

Good one... he also says Israel supported India secretly....


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## DESERT FIGHTER

illusion8 said:


> Evil Pak soldiers??
> 
> They weren't looking all that evil when they were laying down their arms in their thousands at Indian army soldiers feet's and begging for safe passage out of Bangladesh, they were looking scared.



Cool story.. looking at ur obsession.. again im asking you.. were you "harmed" when they were rapping and killing 3 million people? i mean 5 lac.. no i mean 30k.. lol


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## DESERT FIGHTER

illusion8 said:


> Why don't you ask the 90,000 who surrendered to IA and stayed for 1 year building roads and bridges in India whether they were "rapped"?



Dnt know abt them.. but were you? u must be considering ur obsessions with this fake genocide.


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## kalu_miah

@Aeronaut , there is a stictky thread for all 1971 related issues. Please consider merging this thread with that sticky thread, thanks.


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## Zabaniyah

Indians are now trying to hit a score against the Yanks? LOL...

The Blood Telegram is nothing new, and already known. Please post 71' related articles in relevant stickies. 

(at last, I got how to merge threads!)


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## kalu_miah

Not sure if this was posted before. Who is S.G. Jilanee? Looks like he writes for Dawn newspaper in Pakistan.

http://archives.dawn.com/weekly/encounter/20051210/encounter4.htm

*The fall (and rise) of Dhaka*

*By S.G. Jilanee*

_O, what a fall there was my countrymen! 
—Julius Caesar Act 3 Scene II_

THE morning in Chittagong on December 16, 1971 was chilly. There was some fog, too. But people of all ages had begun to pour out from their homes since dawn and line up along the main trunk road from Dhaka. Celebrations had started the previous night as news of the surrender of the Pakistan army came over the radio. But now the excitement was beyond control. The crowd awaited the arrival of the Indian troops. As the fog lifted and the first truck of a convoy came into view a thunderous roar of “Joi Bangla” from the multitude rent the air.

Cheerful faces glowed with a sense of victory (vijoi). The pall of gloom that had enveloped them for more than eight months had disappeared. The old Dhaka had fallen and a new Dhaka arisen from its ashes. A province had become a country. Bangladesh was born. And people were welcoming Indian troops as their liberators.

Liberators? Standing wrapped in a shawl among the crowd, I was lost in a reverie. Events from the past flashed on memory’s screen. In 1947, these same people had celebrated the birth of Pakistan and freedom from Indian hegemony with similar unbounded succes fou.

In the 16th century it was Emperor Humayun’s troops that were trapped and routed in these parts; now it were Pakistan’s. The planners of military action then and now were from the same part of the country, smug, self-sufficient, ignorant of the cast of the Bengali’s mind.

Bengalis are a spirited people with an acute sense of self-respect. They furiously resent tyranny. In the 19th century when a Hindu zamindar in the 24-Parganas district of (now West) Bengal attempted to levy subscription for Durga Puja from his Muslim ryots, Titu Mir rose in an armed revolt against him and gave his life fighting. And, in 1975, when Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, founder of Bangladesh, whom they had hailed as Bangabandhu (Friend of the Bengalis), tried to become a dictator, they killed him without a qualm.

Bengal had always been divided on “communal” lines; the eastern part predominantly Muslim; the western, Hindu. Lord Curzon partitioned the province on those lines in 1907. But it was annulled four years later after violent Hindu agitation. The cultural divide is manifest in their language and even their cooking. They use different spices and different names for curries.

So, when A.K. Fazlul Haq moved the Pakistan Resolution, the Bengalis hoped that their dream, shattered when the separation of Bengal was annulled, would now be realized. For instance, when, during his tour of north Bengal, Jinnah stopped by the wayside near the level crossing of the Natore railway station and asked the crowd that had gathered to greet him, “apni ki Pakistan chahen? (Do you want Pakistan?),” there was a crescendo of “yes!” A pillar with Jinnah’s words in Bengali was erected at the spot to commemorate the event.

Another flash. Direct Action Day on August 16, 1946. The Bengal Muslim League appeals for a complete hartal in Calcutta, and suburbs. The Hindus, instigated by the Congress and Hindu Mahasabha, resist the Muslim League’s call. The face-off ignites, what the Statesman called, “The Great Calcutta Killing.”

Bengalis become the first to give their blood for Pakistan and set the pace for its birth. Calcutta killings trigger anti-Hindu riots in Noakhali and the adjoining areas of the Chandpur subdivision of Comilla district. The Hindus in turn wantonly massacre Muslims in Bihar after which Pakistan becomes a settled fact.

And the same people were now welcoming Indians as their liberators. The mood of the Bengalis had begun to sour quite early. Mass outflux of Hindu officials after the partition had caused a vacuum in the administration in East Pakistan. There were few Muslim Bengalis in superior jobs even in provincial administration; in federal government services scarcely any. The only Bengali ICS was T.I.M. Nurunnabi Choudhry. So, while the federal government departments already overflowed with non-Bengalis, swarms of officers from West Pakistan swooped upon East Pakistan, occupying most of the superior administrative positions. The Bengali felt disappointed.

But what irked him most was their behaviour. The British were colonialists, yet they gave them respect and empathized with their aspirations; the West Pakistanis saw no need for that. That music and dancing were part of Bengali culture was not seen in good light.

The Muslim ‘ryots’ of big landlords in Bengal, also, were unlike the “kammis” of West Pakistan. No Hindu zamindar or Muslim nawab could exercise droit de signeur over the wife or other womenfolk of his “ryot” as they did in West Pakistan. Nor had Bengali Muslims suffered the like of a Ranjit Singh. And finally, the land of Faraizi Movement least needed any lecture about how to be “good Muslims.”

In 1948, the founder of Pakistan made his controversial declaration that “Urdu, — and Urdu alone, shall be Pakistan’s national language.” It ignited a prairie fire of nationalist sentiments which translated into the “language movement.”

In 1952, Dhaka’s police superintendent, Masood Mahmood ordered his men to fire on an unarmed procession of protesting students, killing four. It gave further boost to Bengali nationalism and the Awami Muslim League, later Awami League (AL), was founded. Maulana Abdul Hameed Khan Bhashani and Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, two fire-brand demagogues took command. Bhashani had led a violent protest against cow-slaughter in Goalpara district of Assam before partition. Mujib was cutting his teeth. They took the people by storm.

In 1954, the ruling Muslim League was routed by the AL-KSP (Krishak-Sramik Party). It was followed by dismissal of provincial government, imposition of governor’s rule, the Agartala conspiracy case, the six-points, “gherao-jalao” against Ayub, 1970 elections, political stand-off, break-up of negotiations, army action and, finally, the declaration of the birth of Bangladesh in the wee hours of March 26, 1971.

While the major political and economic factors had paved the way for independence, smaller incidents had contributed to buttress it. These included the mistreatment of Khwaja Nazimuddin, Maulvi Tamizuddin Khan and Suhrawardy and Fazlul Haq.

Then there was the Bihari factor. Because east Bengal was expected to become Pakistan, many people from Bihar had fled to settle there after the Bihar massacre. The Biharis identified themselves more with the West Pakistanis than the Bengalis, and both spoke Urdu. They made little attempt to assimilate with the local populace. So a distance between the two communities developed which became gradually wider.

In 1954, as soon as the AL-KSP government was formed, there were violent anti-Bihari riots in the Adamjee Jute Mills in Narayanganj. The incident was a clear signal of the shape of things to come. But being sure that the West Pakistanis would protect them the Biharis kept the blinkers on. To make matters worse, in 1971 they went all out to assist the Pakistan Army.

This morning I mused on their ultimate fate as I recalled how during the first few days after the launch of the army action when Chittagong was under Mukti Bahini control, many Biharis and West Pakistanis were brutally killed in Pahartali Railway workshop, Chandraghona and Kaptai.

Quaid-i-Azam’s portentous pronouncement again came to mind. He thought that Muslim Bengalis would one day be lured by the Hindus to secede from Pakistan and merge with West Bengal. This did not happen. East Pakistan became Bangladesh, not even “East Bengal.” If there is anything that the Bengali loves as dearly as life, it is his independence.

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## asad71



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## Bratva

the pathetic, grisly and untold story of the massacre of non-Bengalees and pro-Pakistan Bengalees by the Awami League led insurgents in the East Pakistan during March-April 1971 is bared in Blood and Tears. The details of the genocide waged by the rebels in those murderous months were concealed from the people of West Pakistan by the then federal government to prevent reprisals against Bengalees in West Pakistan and also not to wreck prospect for a negotiated settlement with the Awami League.The 170 eye-witnesses, whose tragic accounts of their splintered and traumatic lives are contained in this book, were picked from nearly 5,000 families repatriated to Pakistan from Bangladesh between the autumn of 1973 and the spring of 1974. Although they hail from 55 towns of the former East Pakistan, their narratives and the published dispatches of the foreign newsmen quoted in this book, cover 110 places where the slaughter of the innocents took place. The majority of eye-witnesses consist of parents who saw their children slain, the wives who were forced by the rebels to witness murder of their husbands, the girls who were ravished and the rare escapees from the rebel operated human slaughter-houses. While the focus in Blood and Tears is on the rebel atrocities it also highlights the courage and heroism of many Bengalees who saved their non-Bengalee friends from the fire and fury of the bloodthirsty insurgents.


http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/3366347/247194982/name/Blood+and+Tears--qutubuddin+aziz.pdf 


illusion8 said:


>




ANy eye witness accounts that corroborates such outrageous claim made by american diplomat? 

While on the other hand Read blood and tears which describes and backup it's account with complete proof. Thousand of Bihari's and pro Pak banglas murdered, raped by Muktibahini.

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## illusion8

mafiya said:


> http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/3366347/247194982/name/Blood and Tears--qutubuddin aziz.pdf
> 
> 
> ANy eye witness accounts that corroborates such outrageous claim made by american diplomat?



I guess there were plenty of eye witnesses who testified till recently in the war crimes tribunal's cases that's presently underway in Bangladesh wherein the witnesses were heard and the perpetrators were handed out death sentences.


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## kalu_miah

mafiya said:


> the pathetic, grisly and untold story of the massacre of non-Bengalees and pro-Pakistan Bengalees by the Awami League led insurgents in the East Pakistan during March-April 1971 is bared in Blood and Tears. The details of the genocide waged by the rebels in those murderous months were concealed from the people of West Pakistan by the then federal government to prevent reprisals against Bengalees in West Pakistan and also not to wreck prospect for a negotiated settlement with the Awami League.The 170 eye-witnesses, whose tragic accounts of their splintered and traumatic lives are contained in this book, were picked from nearly 5,000 families repatriated to Pakistan from Bangladesh between the autumn of 1973 and the spring of 1974. Although they hail from 55 towns of the former East Pakistan, their narratives and the published dispatches of the foreign newsmen quoted in this book, cover 110 places where the slaughter of the innocents took place. The majority of eye-witnesses consist of parents who saw their children slain, the wives who were forced by the rebels to witness murder of their husbands, the girls who were ravished and the rare escapees from the rebel operated human slaughter-houses. While the focus in Blood and Tears is on the rebel atrocities it also highlights the courage and heroism of many Bengalees who saved their non-Bengalee friends from the fire and fury of the bloodthirsty insurgents.
> 
> 
> http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/3366347/247194982/name/Blood and Tears--qutubuddin aziz.pdf
> 
> 
> ANy eye witness accounts that corroborates such outrageous claim made by american diplomat?
> 
> While on the other hand Read blood and tears which describes and backup it's account with complete proof. Thousand of Bihari's and pro Pak banglas murdered, raped by Muktibahini.



War crimes happened on both sides.


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## SarthakGanguly

To understand the phenomenon read this book - 'Brennt Paris?' (Is Paris Burning?) - it talks about the Liberation of Paris on August 25, 1944. When General Choltitz and his men surrendered, many German civilians and people of German descent were singled out as 'le boche' and killed. Sad but inevitable. Only difference was that the Americans and the French didnot protect many Germans except for the officers, while the Indian Army took all West Pakistani soldiers as well as civilians and staff and spared them from retribution.


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## INDIC

mafiya said:


> the pathetic, grisly and untold story of the massacre of non-Bengalees and pro-Pakistan Bengalees by the Awami League led insurgents in the East Pakistan during March-April 1971 is bared in Blood and Tears. The details of the genocide waged by the rebels in those murderous months were concealed from the people of West Pakistan by the then federal government to prevent reprisals against Bengalees in West Pakistan and also not to wreck prospect for a negotiated settlement with the Awami League.The 170 eye-witnesses, whose tragic accounts of their splintered and traumatic lives are contained in this book, were picked from nearly 5,000 families repatriated to Pakistan from Bangladesh between the autumn of 1973 and the spring of 1974. Although they hail from 55 towns of the former East Pakistan, their narratives and the published dispatches of the foreign newsmen quoted in this book, cover 110 places where the slaughter of the innocents took place. The majority of eye-witnesses consist of parents who saw their children slain, the wives who were forced by the rebels to witness murder of their husbands, the girls who were ravished and the rare escapees from the rebel operated human slaughter-houses. While the focus in Blood and Tears is on the rebel atrocities it also highlights the courage and heroism of many Bengalees who saved their non-Bengalee friends from the fire and fury of the bloodthirsty insurgents.
> 
> 
> http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/3366347/247194982/name/Blood and Tears--qutubuddin aziz.pdf
> 
> 
> ANy eye witness accounts that corroborates such outrageous claim made by american diplomat?
> 
> While on the other hand Read blood and tears which describes and backup it's account with complete proof. Thousand of Bihari's and pro Pak banglas murdered, raped by Muktibahini.



<i>Dead Reckoning</i>: Disappearing stories and evidence






Gita Sahgal
The 40th anniversary of the liberation of Bangladesh is special not simply because it marks the passing of decades, but because of the current passionate attempt to recapture the founding spirit of the nation. The recent debates on the Constitution and an attempt to return it to its original secular character of 1972 are vital to the future survival of the country. But the hurried changes made, with an ultimate outcome of keeping Islam as the state religion, have disappointed many. In contrast, the war crimes trials that are underway still offer hope.

But I observe that, in London, Bangladeshis seeking justice are isolated and told instead to seek reconciliation, and even that genocide didn't happen. Further, Bangladesh is criticised for holding the trials in a national court rather than as a Rwanda or Yugoslavia style international process. But the establishment of an International Criminal Court was intended to step in only when national judiciaries failed to act, or collapsed entirely.

The current war crimes trials should be able to provide a basis for future examination of other issues. Ending the impunity enjoyed by those responsible for violence in 1971 will go some way towards reassuring minorities that attacks on them will not be tolerated. As it grapples with one kind of impunity, Bangladesh, which has shown the way on many issues, should be able to tackle the constitutional questions that were avoided earlier. Removing Islam as the state religion is one of the key changes that will begin to ensure full citizenship for all, and a framework for addressing more modern forms of impunity.

*My own encounter with 1971 was War Crimes File, a documentary I produced for Channel Four (UK). The film investigated three men of Bangladeshi origin, by then all British nationals, for 1971 war crimes or crimes against humanity. David Bergman was a stubborn and persistent reporter, and he led the research with a large team of Bangladeshi academics, filmmakers and young researchers until we found a trail of information that led to the three accused. We found serious and credible allegations that they were involved in making lists of people to be picked up, ordering killings, being involved with torture centres and participating in the killing of the intellectuals. Many of those we interviewed were eye witnesses, or even targets who had evaded capture.*

*Our interviewees told us that local collaborators of Jamaat e Islami "not only collaborated with the Pakistani army in the genocide, but had their own scheme of killing."* But recently, a number of recent writings about Bangladesh have obscured this story entirely.

At a December 8th presentation at SOAS, London, Sarmila Bose presented a talk "The legacy of 1971 - 40 years on," at the invitation of the Center for the Study of Pakistan. *During the Q&A session I asked her directly why, in her book Dead Reckoning, she had been dismissive about Razakars, as if it was a figment of fevered Bengali imaginations. She had treated them as a "discourse" rather than a fact on the ground that needs examination*. *Why was there no discussion of their actions, no mention of peace committees or their political linkages to the Jamaat e Islami? In reply, she simply said that these issues were not her concern and the book dealt with only certain incidents.* This evasive response is elaborated in her just-published essay "The question of genocide and the quest for justice in the 1971 war" (Journal of Genocide Studies, November 2011), where *she states: "It may be argued that the groups doing the killings were the creation of the regime, but their exact identity and motives remain shrouded."*

Looking at how she responded to various questions at SOAS, she appears to be going through a central shape shifting in the face of mounting criticism of her book. *At the time of launch, she claimed Dead Reckoning was groundbreaking, a new account of the war, showing that the major narrative was not merely flawed or incomplete but fundamentally wrong. By now, after months of published criticisms of her book (Mookherjee, Mohaiemen, in EPW, among others), she says it is only a "few incidents" and when key issues like Razakars are brought up, she says these are "not her concern."*

When the book was first launched, the Pakistanis were gentlemen and the Bengalis were racist and nasty towards them. Now, she states, she was not intending to be rude, but rather to display "the richness of the vocabulary" of Bengalis criticising Pakistanis. *Then, there was no genocide (except of Biharis). Now, she says she has written an article saying that there might have been some genocidal killings.*

That is why I call her a shape shifter.

*One method used by her is to look at written narratives, and then take them apart by "checking" with the Pakistani army. She clearly started out with a great deal of access, but she uses none of the material which could help make a case against the Pakistan army. In several cases, people are alive and she could have talked to them directly rather relying on hearsay*. Bose has certainly not attempted to raise the shroud she referred to, although she had the perfect opportunity to do so.

In Dead Reckoning, *Bose quoted General Niazi, who wrote that sanction to set up al Badr and al Shams was given at the end of August 1971 and they were drawn from well-educated students from schools and madrassas. But by the time she writes this new article on genocide, she has apparently forgotten this citation and all mention of al Badr. In the book, she discusses accounts of "the killing of the intellectuals." Now, in the article, she concludes that there is no evidence that the Pakistani army was involved.* In neither the book nor the article does she connect al Badr and al Shams to the Jamaat e Islami or examine their ideology, intentions or actions. *There is a blackout in her book about the peace committees and the role of the Jamaat in systematic killings and torture.*

The most striking thing about the book is the complete absence of any framework, theoretical or political. Some of her material clearly shows an uprising in progress. Fear, rumours and exaggeration are well known features of uprisings, but you don't get any sense that she understands this, or has read anything about the behaviour of crowds. There is also a non-discussion of genocide, war crimes or crimes against humanityeither legal or political movements for accountability, or the case that has developed through international tribunals

Now it is true that only certain incidents are discussed, so she may argue she does not need to cover every incident. But the book claims to dismiss the genocide allegation based on these selective incidents. In her book, she summarily denied genocide allegations against Pakistanis. *For instance, she makes no determination on the crimes committed at Dhaka University, though she doesn't deny the direct accounts of targeted attacks on civilians. But she mocks them for "cowering" instead of fighting.* There is a strong whiff of admiration for the military, instead of these paltry people who hid when the army launched a massive attack. Her main concern is numbers and other issues of burial and evidence.

There was an emphasis in her EPW article on rape (preceding this book) on randomness, as she keeps calling rape "opportunistic." In the book, there is a refusal to see any patternstargeting of civilians, even where it is described, it is not commented on. After being challenged on the EPW article (by Mookherjee, Mandal, Rahman and others), she excluded some of the rape material from the book. *Although Yasmin Saikia is cited as a reliable source, none of Saikia's information about rape, or contrition of Pakistani soldiers, is used.* Other secondary sources are frequently used, so why not this one? *My film The War Crimes File is cited, but very little of the material in it, except for footage of the killings in Dhaka University, is discussed. 
*
One of the difficulties of the definition of genocide is that there is a requirement to prove "intent." That, along with the requirement to show that a group (for instance, religious or ethnic but not political) is being destroyed is of paramount importance. This requirement does not have to be met in the case of war crimes or crimes against humanity. But evidence that crimes are either "widespread" or "systematic" would be crucial in determining a crime against humanity. As the Rwanda tribunal showed, inflammatory speeches calling for extermination of a group, can be an element in genocide. It would be important to show whether there were organised groups, whether they were acting on their own or under military command. Bose's failure to gather and present such evidence, in a book and subsequent article on genocide and other grave crimes, is inexcusable.



The writer is Executive Director of Center for Secular Space, London (centreforsecularspace.org). She earlier headed Amnesty International's Gender Unit. Gita also produced the award-winning War Crimes File (Channel 4), a documentary on alleged 1971 war criminals associated with Islamist groups in England


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## DESERT FIGHTER

kalu_miah said:


> War crimes happened on both sides.



And it was always the bengalis who started it... just like calcatta massacre lead to massacres in bihar,delhi,punjab etc...


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## INDIC

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> And it was always the bengalis who started it... just like calcatta massacre lead to massacres in bihar,delhi,punjab etc...



Calcutta killing started after the declaration of direct action day when party cadres of league attacked Hindu areas of Calcutta. There was even a public holiday declared by league's government in Bengal on 16th August.


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## kalu_miah

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> And it was always the bengalis who started it... just like calcatta massacre lead to massacres in bihar,delhi,punjab etc...



I see you have hatred issues with Bengali's. For your information, most rioters in Kolkata in 1946 were Bihari Muslims, as far as I recall. Others with more knowledge can elaborate more.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

kalu_miah said:


> I see you have hatred issues with Bengali's. For your information, most rioters in Kolkata in 1946 were Bihari Muslims, as far as I recall. Others with more knowledge can elaborate more.



I dnt have hatred for anybody...as for biharis in kolkata? are you serious? kolkata is in bengal not bihar..


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## LaBong

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I dnt have hatred for anybody...as for biharis in kolkata? are you serious? kolkata is in bengal not bihar..



They are actually North Indian urdu speaking Muslims who have been living in Kolkata for centuries. They are notable entrepreneurs also contributed to political class. @genmirajborgza786

However there is no proof to show only Urdu speakers engaged in rioting.

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## genmirajborgza786

LaBong said:


> They are actually North Indian urdu speaking Muslims who have been living in Kolkata for centuries. They are notable entrepreneurs also contributed to political class. @genmirajborgza786
> 
> However there is no proof to show only Urdu speakers engaged in rioting.



yes, in fact some notable entrepreneurs from among us along with the north Bengalis were the very first to assimilate with the Calcutta chamber of commerce during the British time, for example hotelier & catering licence ( an privileged & extremely difficult one for any non-white to get) the other being tea & karkhana (factory) licence of the north bengolis etc, Calcutta was always a multicultural city no two thoughts on that

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## TopCat

LaBong said:


> They are actually North Indian urdu speaking Muslims who have been living in Kolkata for centuries. They are notable entrepreneurs also contributed to political class. @genmirajborgza786
> 
> *However there is no proof to show only Urdu speakers engaged in rioting.*



A lot of Noakhailla involved in Calcutta riots. The riots later spread in Noakhali once the news of the death of relatives reached home.


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## WAR-rior

Hey Guyz. I came across these 2 videos related to Bangladesh War.

One is a Documentry and other one a Interview. I am not able to link stories in both vids. Ineteresting nonetheless.


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## asad71

WAR-rior said:


> Hey Guyz. I came across these 2 videos related to Bangladesh War.
> 
> One is a Documentry and other one a Interview. I am not able to link stories in both vids. Ineteresting nonetheless.




The lower one is the old fart Jacob full of air.A disgraceful character who continues to be disloyal to his commander who was a great soldier and a gentleman.


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## MilSpec

asad71 said:


> The lower one is the *old fart* Jacob full of air.A disgraceful character who continues to be disloyal to his commander who was a great soldier and a gentleman.


that old fart made tiger surrender, do remember that... And colleagues will always continue to have disagreements, that doesn't dither loyalty... btw how old are you??

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## WAR-rior

asad71 said:


> The lower one is the old fart Jacob full of air.A disgraceful character who continues to be disloyal to his commander who was a great soldier and a gentleman.


Dude. start respecting veterans. Its coz of him Pakistan gave up in 15 days. We actually use to think Pakistan soldiers are equaly to 10 Indians etc etc. but it happaned vice versa. 3000 won over 30000. Pakistanis only say but Indians prove that 1 Indian = 10 Pakistani soliers.


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## Shinigami

Informative and terrifying and the same time. a significant event not given its due importance in the world or even in south asia


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## Kompromat

Produced by?

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## Saiful Islam

The fact that the videos title is India Pakistan 71 you can already tell what the doc will focus on.India always taking the limelight.

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## Kompromat

Saiful Islam said:


> The fact that the videos title is India Pakistan 71 you can already tell what the doc will focus on.India always taking the limelight.




It is


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## Shinigami

Aeronaut said:


> Produced by?





Saiful Islam said:


> The fact that the videos title is India Pakistan 71 you can already tell what the doc will focus on.India always taking the limelight.



Let me guess. you guys actually think its "indian propaganda" 

why not watch it first and then decide. this is serious stuff


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## KRAIT

Saiful Islam said:


> The fact that the videos title is India Pakistan 71 you can already tell what the doc will focus on.India always taking the limelight.


Did Pakistan do something yo come in limelight ? Well. buddy there are many documentaries on what Wes Pakistan did in East.


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## idune

Request to MOD, would you please move this to 1971 sticky? Thanks

December 16, 1971 | From East Pakistan to Bangladesh. | Page 52

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## Saiful Islam

KRAIT said:


> Did Pakistan do something yo come in limelight ? Well. buddy there are many documentaries on what Wes Pakistan did in East.




lool what a stupid question


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## MKI 30

Good time to organize IPL 2014 in Bangladesh without players of West Pakistan. Congrats Bangladesh.


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## Saiful Islam

WAR-rior said:


> Dude. start respecting veterans. Its coz of him Pakistan gave up in 15 days. We actually use to think Pakistan soldiers are equaly to 10 Indians etc etc. but it happaned vice versa. 3000 won over 30000. Pakistanis only say but Indians prove that 1 Indian = 10 Pakistani soliers.



How can such a thing make sense, that's what I don't get? "1 Pak soldier equals to 10 Indian soldiers", that theory is so stupid why would anyone believe it in the first place? Does the statement imply it as physically/mentally

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## Capt.Popeye

sandy_3126 said:


> that old fart made tiger surrender, do remember that... And colleagues will always continue to have disagreements, that doesn't dither loyalty... btw how old are you??


 
_Yaar. kaunsey umar ka baat kar rahe ho? _


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## WAR-rior

Saiful Islam said:


> How can such a thing make sense, that's what I don't get? "1 Pak soldier equals to 10 Indian soldiers", that theory is so stupid why would anyone believe it in the first place? Does the statement imply it as physically/mentally


Well I think you shud ask your historical Generals who have been teaching you this for past 60+ years. Did you guys ever raise this question to them? Did you guyz ever question the audacity of whtever was taught to you in the name of history?



Shinigami said:


> Informative and terrifying and the same time. a significant event not given its due importance in the world or even in south asia


After watching this vid, I dont see Pak Army any different from Hitler in Europe during pre WW2 decade. It showz how Pak Army rubbled Temples and churches and these pakistanis cry bout 1, 2 incidents in India. CROCODILE TEARS i say. Poor Pakistanis have no credability for crying against atrocities they themselves have mastered.


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## Saleem

very good pakistan viewpoint: indo pak war 1971 by Hakeem Arshad Qureshi [Lt Col iun 1971 retired as Maj Gen]


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## asad71

WAR-rior said:


> Dude. start respecting veterans. Its coz of him Pakistan gave up in 15 days. We actually use to think Pakistan soldiers are equaly to 10 Indians etc etc. but it happaned vice versa. 3000 won over 30000. Pakistanis only say but Indians prove that 1 Indian = 10 Pakistani soliers.


1. Since you do not know your history,the commander of the joint Indo-BD forces was Gen Jagjit Singh Arora.A thorough gentleman, a superb soldier, he was somewhat introverted shunning publicity. The battles in the war were fought as per his plans and orders -which were again in keeping with the larger goals set by Indira Gandhi, Jagjivan Ram,Manekshaw,Tajuddin and Osmani. The decisions and responsibilities in his theater/command were always Arora's to bear.

2. Since you are not conversant with the way military functions, the commander has a staff who detail out his wishes/orders and issues these to subordinate units/formations/commanders to carry out. The staff do not take any decision or issue any orders save and except on behalf of the commander.

3. This Jacob guy as the COS, or head of Arora's staff just used to carry out his commander's wishes. During the War nobody ever heard of this Jacob character. After he wrote hisbook on the war,his former comrades have totally boycotted him. He is not invited to their functions.In that book he has totally ignored his commander taking total credit to himself - when there was none due.Chanting slogans like, Joi Bangla/Joi Bangobandhu he has oiled Hasina to get an award in BD and regular invitations. 

4.I have shaken hands with the great Arora several times.So you can sit and calculate my age.

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## Saleem

and you forget...the main planner and commander for the muktis, Gen Shahbeg Singh....ended up opposing the bharati tyranny in punjab and was killed in operation blue star the bharato attack on the golden temple....
"des ho ya perdes"....punjabi sikh movie.....


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## WAR-rior

asad71 said:


> 1. Since you do not know your history,the commander of the joint Indo-BD forces was Gen Jagjit Singh Arora.A thorough gentleman, a superb soldier, he was somewhat introverted shunning publicity. The battles in the war were fought as per his plans and orders -which were again in keeping with the larger goals set by Indira Gandhi, Jagjivan Ram,Manekshaw,Tajuddin and Osmani. The decisions and responsibilities in his theater/command were always Arora's to bear.
> 
> 2. Since you are not conversant with the way military functions, the commander has a staff who detail out his wishes/orders and issues these to subordinate units/formations/commanders to carry out. The staff do not take any decision or issue any orders save and except on behalf of the commander.
> 
> 3. This Jacob guy as the COS, or head of Arora's staff just used to carry out his commander's wishes. During the War nobody ever heard of this Jacob character. After he wrote hisbook on the war,his former comrades have totally boycotted him. He is not invited to their functions.In that book he has totally ignored his commander taking total credit to himself - when there was none due.Chanting slogans like, Joi Bangla/Joi Bangobandhu he has oiled Hasina to get an award in BD and regular invitations.
> 
> 4.I have shaken hands with the great Arora several times.So you can sit and calculate my age.


Ohh is it. Great to talk to a veteran. But dont you think, no matter who calls the orders or what oreders they are, the person conveying it has a responsibility and need more conviction then the orders caller. If not for the messenger's awe, the things wont get conveyed the way one wants to be. If not for Jacob's conviction who communicated with Gen. Niazi, it wont be possible for a 30k army surrendering to 3k one.

And again, see the video carefully. Jacob himself said that he was lucky and still cant believe they surrendered so easily. He never sounded like taking credit as suggested by your post.


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## RAMPAGE

@asad71

I've heard about PA soldiers raping and killing bengali civilians in 71 ....... do you confirm that ???


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## asad71

WAR-rior said:


> Ohh is it. Great to talk to a veteran. But dont you think, no matter who calls the orders or what oreders they are, the person conveying it has a responsibility and need more conviction then the orders caller. If not for the messenger's awe, the things wont get conveyed the way one wants to be. If not for Jacob's conviction who communicated with Gen. Niazi, it wont be possible for a 30k army surrendering to 3k one.
> 
> And again, see the video carefully. Jacob himself said that he was lucky and still cant believe they surrendered so easily. He never sounded like taking credit as suggested by your post.


Read his book and you will know how disloyal he is to his old commander.And the book was published after Arora had died.No respect for a dead comrade also.


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## asad71

RAMPAGE said:


> @asad71
> 
> I've heard about PA soldiers raping and killing bengali civilians in 71 ....... do you confirm that ???



1.I was once a proud PA officer,and I  am ashamed to say that is true.However, there has been too much of exaggeration in later reports. 

2.Allowing rapes and wanton killings only degrade the discipline and moral force in any fighting unit. No commander will allow this. In this War PA deployment was too extended often with small detachments isolated under junior NCOs. Later WP Rangers and Police elements committed the max mischief.

3. Senior commanders of PA must,however, bear the major blame. Troops on way to BD were told to expect only Hindus in BD. Therefore, their attitude was already negative. Give you one example. Tochi Scouts were deployed in Sylhet. When they heard azan ringing out from mosques all around they were puzzled. At that time rural Pakistan did not have many mosques and azan was not heard every where always.And then they saw rows of people praying in mosques. This particular wing of the Tochi Scouts had refused to shoot at fellow Muslims and were withdrawn.

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## RAMPAGE

asad71 said:


> 1.I was once a proud PA officer,and I am ashamed to say that is true.However, there has been too much of exaggeration in later reports.
> 
> 2.Allowing rapes and wanton killings only degrade the discipline and moral force in any fighting unit. No commander will allow this. In this War PA deployment was too extended often with small detachments isolated under junior NCOs. Later WP Rangers and Police elements committed the max mischief.
> 
> 3. Senior commanders of PA must,however, bear the major blame. Troops on way to BD were told to expect only Hindus in BD. Therefore, their attitude was already negative. Give you one example. Tochi Scouts were deployed in Sylhet. When they heard azan ringing out from mosques all around they were puzzled. At that time rural Pakistan did not have many mosques and azan was not heard every where always.And then they saw rows of people praying in mosques. This particular wing of the Tochi Scouts had refused to shoot at fellow Muslims and were withdrawn.


How can a muslim soldier rape and kill their own brothers and sisters ??? 

Btw do you think that the fallen muslim soldiers of 71 from both sides deserved the military decorations they got ???


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## asad71

1. Killing the enemy is what wars are about - mostly. But killing unarmed civilians who are own population and committing atrocities against women reduce a soldier to the lowest level of human being. These are disgrace to the uniform they wear,they dishonor their families and are a blot on humanity. PA had lost the war when they started these.

2.A soldier is a soldier.He fights for the comrade standing next to him.He fights for the honor of his unit.He fights because he loves his commander who mustn't be letdown. He fights for his country and faith.

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## WAR-rior

asad71 said:


> Read his book and you will know how disloyal he is to his old commander.And the book was published after Arora had died.No respect for a dead comrade also.


Hope you dont mind providing the link. I wud be interested to do as u suggested. Regards.


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## WAR-rior

asad71 said:


> 1.I was once a proud PA officer,and I am ashamed to say that is true.However, there has been too much of exaggeration in later reports.
> 
> 2.Allowing rapes and wanton killings only degrade the discipline and moral force in any fighting unit. No commander will allow this. In this War PA deployment was too extended often with small detachments isolated under junior NCOs. Later WP Rangers and Police elements committed the max mischief.
> 
> 3. Senior commanders of PA must,however, bear the major blame. Troops on way to BD were told to expect only Hindus in BD. Therefore, their attitude was already negative. Give you one example. Tochi Scouts were deployed in Sylhet. When they heard azan ringing out from mosques all around they were puzzled. At that time rural Pakistan did not have many mosques and azan was not heard every where always.And then they saw rows of people praying in mosques. This particular wing of the Tochi Scouts had refused to shoot at fellow Muslims and were withdrawn.


So you mean to say the Pak Army members commited atrocities citing them as Hindus? Lame I believe. I understand that irrespective of religion, Pak army in West wud had never accepted Bengalis above them. Can you explain why was Mujibur Rehman refused as PM after gaining huge majority in Pakistani elections and later arrested? Can you explain why did Tikka Khan said, 'We want the land, dont care bout the people'. You are saying the even a General believed that there will be only Hindus in Bangladesh? I smell some conspiracy theory in you statements Sir where you are trying to hide the fact that two nation theory was discomforted by Pakistan and then rejected by Bengalis coz they understood that irrespective of their religion, they would always be 2nd grade citizen in the name of their culture and language. Two nation theory wud have been success if whole east and west Pakistan was considered as one and hence Election result was calculated as a whole which West Pakistanis refused to accept. They refused to accept Bengali language and culture. West Pakistan itself insulted two nation theory which made Bengalis part away.


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## Shinigami

RAMPAGE said:


> *How can a muslim soldier rape and kill their own brothers and sisters ??? *
> 
> Btw do you think that the fallen muslim soldiers of 71 from both sides deserved the military decorations they got ???





asad71 said:


> 3. Senior commanders of PA must,however, bear the major blame. *Troops on way to BD were told to expect only Hindus in BD.* Therefore, their attitude was already negative. Give you one example. Tochi Scouts were deployed in Sylhet. When they heard azan ringing out from mosques all around they were puzzled. At that time rural Pakistan did not have many mosques and azan was not heard every where always.And then they saw rows of people praying in mosques. This particular wing of the Tochi Scouts had refused to shoot at fellow Muslims and were withdrawn.



so raping hindu women is ok. very enlightening. explains a lot about the subcontinent history


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## asad71

WAR-rior said:


> Hope you dont mind providing the link. I wud be interested to do as u suggested. Regards.


_Surrender at Dacca: Birth of a Nation_ (ISBN 984-05-1395-8)


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## Saiful Islam

@asad71 it would be great to hear some more war time stories from you

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## genmirajborgza786

*Bangladesh hangs Islamist leader despite U.N. objections*

*Dhaka, Bangladesh (CNN)* -- Bangladesh hanged an Islamist leader Thursday despite pleas not to from the United Nations.

The execution came after the country's Supreme Court upheld the death sentence against Abdul Quader Mollah, state-run news agency BSS reported.

Mollah was sentenced in September after being convicted of crimes against humanity that date back to 1971, during the country's war for independence.

The execution, originally scheduled for Tuesday, was delayed by the Supreme Court at the last minute.

Mollah was the assistant secretary general for the Jamaat-e-Islami party, which earlier this year was banned from taking part in elections.

Court decisions in his case, and others against senior Jamaat leaders have resulted in violent protests in the streets.

In February, he was convicted of war crimes by an international panel set up by the government in an attempt to bring to justice those accused of atrocities.

He was originally sentenced to life in prison, but many Bangladeshis held protests saying the sentence wasn't harsh enough.

The Supreme Court then sentenced him to death. In the country's legal system, that decision cannot be appealed.

*Concerns over trial*

*Two U.N. human rights experts called on Bangladesh on Monday to halt the execution because of concerns that Mollah did not receive a fair trial.*

*"The right of appeal is of particular importance in death penalty cases," said Gabriela Knaul, U.N. special rapporteur on the independence of judges and lawyers.*

*"Anyone convicted of a crime has the right to have his or her conviction and sentence reviewed by a higher tribunal, as laid down in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights to which Bangladesh is a party," she said in a statement.*

*"This provision is violated where a court of final instance imposes a harsher sentence that cannot be reviewed," the statement said.*

*Christof Heyns, U.N. special rapporteur on summary executions, said capital punishment "may be imposed only following a trial that complied with fair trial and due process safeguards. ... Only full respect for stringent due process guarantees distinguishes capital punishment as possibly permitted under international law from a summary execution, which by definition violates human rights standards."*

*On Tuesday, U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay called for a stay, saying the trial had not met stringent international standards for the death penalty, the U.N. said in a statement.*

*The United Nations opposes the death penalty in any circumstance.*

*Political tensions*

Jamaat, a major ally of the main opposition party Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP), is a constant thorn in the side of the ruling Awami League.

Jaamat enjoys considerable support, particularly in rural areas. And periodically, it mobilizes its adherents in large-scale demonstrations in Dhaka to show its strength.

But it has faced pressure from the Awami League and progressive groups that point to Jammat's role during Bangladesh's struggle for independence from Pakistan.

Between 1 million and 3 million people were killed in the nine-month war.

The International Crimes Tribunal, the court set up by the government in 2010, has convicted several other top Jamaat leaders of crimes against humanity.

Jamaat acknowledges that it opposed Bangladesh's struggle for independence, but it has decried what it calls a smear campaign against it.

It has also questioned why the Awami League is only now pressing forward on war crimes trials when it didn't do so while in power during the 1970s and 1990s.

Bangladesh hangs Islamist leader over U.N. objections - CNN.com


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## asad71

GENOCIDE

*GENOCIDE*
*Anthony Mascarenhas*


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## Jf Thunder

johnny boy said:


> hmmm...why was so much hatred shown aginst bengalis pre 1971?????any one has any answer??????


cuz we the West Pakistanis were idiots, if only we could get better leadreship


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## Anubis

@asad71 bhai please write a piece about you wartime experience in the senior section.....pleezzzz!


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## Capt.Popeye

Just to jog our memories and re-awaken our consciences (this part is optional though):

*GENOCIDE*

*An account by Anthony Mascarenhas, former Assistant Editor, Morning News, Karachi.

ABDUL BARI had run out of luck.
Like thousands of other people in East Bengal, he had made the mistake the fatal mistake-of running within sight of a Pakistani army patrol.
He was 24 years old, a slight man surrounded by soldiers. He was trembling, because he was about to be shot."Normally we would have killed him as he ran," I was informed chattily by Major Rathore, the G-2 Ops. of the 9th Division, as we stood on the outskirts of a tiny village near Mudafarganj, about 20 miles south of Comilla. "But we are checking him out for your sake. You are new here and I see you have a squeamish stomach."
"Why kill him?" I asked with mounting concern.
"Because he might be a Hindu or he might be a rebel, perhaps a student or an Awami Leaguer. They know we are sorting them out and they betray themselves by running."
"But why are you killing them? And why pick on the Hindus?" I persisted.
"Must I remind you," Rathore said severely, "how they have tried to destroy Pakistan? Now under the cover of the fighting we have an excellent opportunity of finishing them off."
First Glimpse of Blood stains
"Of course," he added hastily, "we are only killing the Hindu men. We are soldiers, not cowards like the rebels. They kill our women and children."
I WAS GETTING my first glimpse of the stain of blood which has spread over the otherwise verdant land of East Bengal. First it was the massacre of the non-Bengalis in a savage outburst of Bengali hatred. Now it was massacre, deliberately carried out by the West Pakistan army.
The pogrom's victims are not only the Hindus of East Bengal-who constitute about 10 per cent of the 75 million population-but also many thousands of Bengali Muslims. These include university and college students, teachers, Awami League and Left-Wing political cadres and every one thee army can catch of the
176,000 Bengali military men and police who mutinied on March 26 in a spectacular, though untimely and ill-starred bid, to create an independent Republic of Bangla Desh.
What I saw and heard with unbelieving eyes and ears during my 10 days in East Bengal in late April made it terribly clear that the killings are not the isolated acts of military commanders in the field.
The West Pakistani soldiers are not the only ones who have been killing in East Bengal, of course. On the night of March 25-and this I was allowed to report by the
Pakistani censor-the Bengali troops and paramilitary units stationed in East Pakistan mutinied and attacked non-Bengalis with atrocious savagery.
Thousands of families of unfortunate Muslims, many of them refugees from Bihar who chose Pakistan at the time of the partition riots in 1947 were mercilessly wiped out. Women were raped, or had their breasts torn out with specially fashioned knives. Children did not escape the horror: the lucky ones were killed with their parents; but many thousands of others must go through what life remains for them with eyes gouged out and limbs roughly amputated. More than 20,000 bodies of non-Bengalis have been found in the main towns, such as Chittagong, Khulna and Jessore. The real toll, I was told everywhere in East Bengal, may have been as high as 100,000; for thousands of non-Bengalis have vanished without a trace.
The Government of Pakistan has let the world know about that first horror. What it has suppressed is the second and worse horror which followed when its own army took over the killing. West Pakistani officials privately calculate that ; altogether both sides have killed 250,000 people-not counting those who have died of famine and disease.
Reacting to the almost successful breakaway of the province, which has more than half the country's population, General Yahya Khan's military Government is pushing through its own "final solution" of the East Bengal problem.
"We are determined to cleanse East Pakistan once and for all of the threat of secession, even if it means killing of two million people and ruling the province as a colony for 30 years," I was repeatedly told by senior military and civil officers in Dacca and Comilla.
The West Pakistan army in East Bengal is doing exactly that with a terrifying thoroughness.
WE HAD BEEN racing against the setting sun after a visit to Chandpur (the West Pakistan army prudently stays indoors at night in East Bengal) when one of the jawans (privates) crouched in the back of the Toyota Land Cruiser called out sharply: "There's a man running, Sahib".
Major Rathore brought the vehicle to an abrupt halt, simultaneously reaching for the Chinese made light machine-gun propped against the door. Less than 200 yards away a man could be seen loping through the knee-high paddy.
"For God's sake don't shoot," I cried. "He's unarmed. He's only a villager." Rathore gave me a dirty look and fired a warning burst.
As the man sank to a crouch in the lush carpet of green, two jawarns were already on their way to drag him in.
The thud of a rifle butt across the shoulders preceded the questioning.
"Who are you?"
"Mercy, Sahib! My name is Abdul Bari. I'm a tailor from the New Market in Dacca.
"Don't lie to me You're a Hindu. Why were you running?"
"'It's almost curfew time, Sahib, and I was going to my village."
"Tell me the truth. Why were you running?"
Before the man could answer he was quickly frisked for weapons by a jawan while another quickly snatched away his lunghi. The skinny body that was bared revealed the distinctive traces of circumcision, which is obligatory for Muslims.
The truckloads of human targets
At least it could be plainly seen that Bari was not a Hindu.
The interrogation proceeded.
"Tell me, why were you running?"
By this time Bari, wild eyed and trembling violently, could not answer. He buckled at the knees.
"He looks like a fauji, sir," volunteered one jawan as Bari was hauled to his feet, (Fauji is the Urdu word for soldier: the army uses it for the Bengali rebels it is hounding.)
"Could be," I heard Rathore mutter grimly.
Abdul Bari was clouted several times with the butt end of a rifle, then ominously pushed against a wall. Mercifully his screams brought a young head peeping from the shadows of a nearby hut. Bari shouted something in Bengali. The head vanished. Moments later a bearded old man came haltingly from the but. Rathore pounced on him.
"Do you know this man?"
"Yes, Sahib. He is Abdul Bari." "Is he a fauji?"
"No Sahib, he is a tailor from Dacca."
"Tell me the truth."
"Khuda Kassam (God's oath), Sahib, he is a tailor."
There was a sudden silence. Rathore looked abashed as I told him "For God's sake let him go. What more proof do you want of his innocence?"
But the jawans were apparently unconvinced and kept milling around Bari. It was only after I had once more interceded on his behalf that Rathore ordered Bari to be released. By that time he was a crumpled, speechless heap of terror. But his life had been saved.
Others have not been as fortunate.
For six days as I travelled with the officers of the 9th Division headquarters at Comilla I witnessed at close quarters the extent of the killing. I saw Hindus, hunted from village to village and door to door, shot off-hand after a cursory "short-arm inspection" showed they were uncircumcised. I have heard the screams of men bludgeoned to death in the compound of the Circuit House (civil administrative headquarters) in Comilla. I have seen truck loads of other human targets and those who had the humanity to try to help them hauled off "for under the cover of darkness and curfew. I have witnessed the brutality of "kill and burn missions" as the army units, after clearing out the rebels, pursued the pogrom in the towns and the villages.
I have seen whole villages devastated by "punitive action."
And in the officers mess at night I have listened incredulously as otherwise brave and honourable men proudly chewed over the day's kill.
"How many did you get?"
The answers are seared in my memory.
All this is being done, as any West Pakistani officer will tell you, for the "preservation of the unity, the integrity and the ideology of Pakistan." It is, of course, too late for that. The very military action that is designed to hold together the two wings of the country, separated by a thousand miles of India, has confirmed the ideological and emotional break. East Bengal can only be kept in Pakistan by the heavy hand of the army. And the army is dominated by the Punjabis, who traditionally despise and dislike the Bengalis.
The break is so complete today that few Bengalis will willingly be seen in the company of a West Pakistani. I had a distressing experience of this kind during my visit to Dacca when I went to visit an old friend. "I'm sorry," he told me as he turned away, "things have changed. The Pakistan that you and L knew has ceased to exist. Let us put it behind us."
Hours later a Punjabi army officer, talking about the massacre of the non Bengalis before the army moved in, told me: "They have treated us more brutally than the Sikhs did in the partition riots in 1947. How can we ever forgive or forget this?"
Annihilation of Hindus
The bone-crushing military operation has two distinctive features. One is what the authorities like to call the "cleansing process"; a euphemism for massacre. The other is the "rehabilitation effort." This is a way of describing the moves to turn East Bengal into a docile colony of West Pakistan. These commonly used expressions and the repeated official references to "miscreants" and "infiltrators" are part of the charade which is being enacted for the benefit of the world. Strip away the propaganda, and the reality is colonisation-and killing.
The justification for the annihilation of the Hindus was paraphrased by Lt. Gen. Tikka Khan, the Military Governor of East Pakistan, in a radio broadcast I heard on April 18. He said: "The Muslims of East Pakistan, who had played a leading part in the creation of Pakistan, are determined to keep it alive. However, the voice of the vast majority had been suppressed through coercion, threats to life and property by a vocal, violent and aggressive minority, which forced the Awami League to adopt the destructive course."
Others, speaking privately, were more blunt in seeking justification.
"The Hindus had completely undermined the Muslim masses with their money," Col. Naim, of 9th Division headquarters, told me in the officers mess at Comilla. They bled the province white. Money, food and produce flowed across the borders to India. In some cases they made up more than half the teaching staff in the colleges and schools, and sent their own children to be educated in Calcutta. It had reached the point where Bengali culture was in fact Hindu culture, and East Pakistan was virtually under the control of the Marwari businessmen in Calcutta. We have to sort them out to restore the land to the people, and the people to their Faith."
Or take Major Bashir. He came up from the ranks. He is SSO of the 9th Division at Comilla and he boasts of a personal bodycount of 28. He had his own reasons for what has happened. "This is a war between the pure and the impure," he informed me over a cup of green tea. "The people here may have Muslim names and call themselves Muslims. But they are Hindus at heart. You won't believe that the maulvi (mulla) of the Cantonment mosque here issued a fathwa (edict) during Friday prayers that the people would attain ,janat (paradise) if they killed West Pakistanis. We sorted the bastard out and we are now sorting out the others. Those who are left will be real Muslims. We will even teach them Urdu."
Everywhere I found officers and men fashioning imaginative garments of justification from the fabric of their own prejudices. Scapegoats had to be found to legitimise, even for their own consciences, the dreadful "solution" to what in essence was a political problem: the Bengalis won the election and wanted to rule. The Punjabis, whose ambitions and interests have dominated government policies since the founding of Pakistan in 1947, would brook no erosion of their power. The army backed them up.
Officials privately justify what has been done as a retaliation for the massacre of the non-Bengalis before the army moved in. But events suggest that the pogrom was not the result of a spontaneous or undisciplined reaction. It was planned.
General Tikka Khan takes over
It seems clear that the "sorting-out" began to be planned about the time that Lt-Gen. Tikka Khan took over the governorship of East Bengal, from the gentle, self-effacing Admiral Ahsan, and the military command there, from the scholarly Lt-Gen. Sahibzada Khan. That was at the beginning of March, when Sheikh Mujibur Rahman's civil disobedience movement was gathering momentum after the postponement of the assembly meeting from which the Bengalis hoped for so much. President Yahya Khan, it is said, acquiesced in the tide of resentment caused in the top echelons of the military establishment by the increasing humiliation of the West Pakistani troops stationed in East Bengal. The Punjabi Eastern Command at Dacca continues to dominate the policies of the Central Government. [It is perhaps worth pointing out that the Khans are not related: Khan is a common surname in Pakistan.
When the army units fanned out in Dacca on the evening of March 25, in pre-emptive strikes against the mutiny planned for the small hours of the next morning, many of them carried lists of people to be liquidated. These included the Hindus and large numbers of Muslims; students, Awami Leaguers, professors, journalists and those who had been prominent in Sheikh Mujib's movement. The charge, now publicly made, that the army was subjected to mortar attack from the Jaganath Hall, where the Hindu university students lived, hardly justifies the obliteration of two Hindu colonies, built around the temples on Ramna race course, and a third in Shakrepati, in the heart of the old city. Nor does it explain why the sizeable Hindu populations of Dacca and the neighbouring industrial town of Narayanganj should have vanished so completely during the round-the-clock curfew on March 26 and 27. There is similarly no trace of scores of Muslims who were rounded up during the curfew hours. These people were eliminated in a planned operation: and improvised response to Hindu aggression would have had ~as,l~ different results.
Touring Dacca on April 15 1 found the heads of four students lying rotting on the roof of the Iqbal Hall hostel. The caretaker said they had been killed on the night of March 25. I also found heavy traces of blood on the two staircases and in four of the rooms. Behind Iqbal Hall a large residential building seemed to have been singled out for special attention by the army. The walls. were pitted with bullet holes and a foul smell still lingered on the staircase, although it had been heavily powdered with DDT. Neighbours said the bodies of 23 women and children had been carted away only hours before. They had been decomposing on the roof since March 25. It was only after much questioning that I was able to ascertain that the victims belonged to the nearby Hindu shanties. They had sought shelter in the building as the army closed in.
THIS IS GENOCIDE conducted with amazing casualness. Sitting in the office of Major Agha, Martial Law Administrator of Comilla city, on the morning of' April 19, I saw the off-hand manner in which sentences were meted out. A Bihari sub-inspector of police had walked in with a list of prisoners being held' in the police lock-up. Agha looked it over. Then, with a flick of his pencil, he casually ticked off four names on the list.
"Bring these four to me this evening for disposal," he said. He looked at the list again. The pencil flicked once more. "... and bring this thief along with, them."
Death sentence over Cold Drink
The death sentence had been pronounced over a glass of coconut milk. I was informed that two of the prisoners were Hindus, the third a "student," and the fourth an Awami League organiser. The "thief," it transpired, was a lad named Sebastian who had been caught moving the household effects of a Hindu friend to his own house.
Later that evening I saw these men, their hands and legs tied loosely with, a single rope, being led down the road to the Circuit House compound. A little after curfew, which was at 6 o'clock, a flock of squawking mynah birds were disturbed in their play by the thwacking sound of wooden clubs meeting bone and flesh.
Captain Azmat of the Baluch Regiment had two claims to fame according to the mess banter. One was his job as ADC to Maj.-Gen. Shaukat Raza. Commanding officer of the 9th Division. The other was thrust on him by his colleagues' ragging.
Azmat, it transpired, was the only officer in the group who had not made a" kill" Major Bashir needled him mercilessly.
" Come on Azmat, " Bashir told him one night, " we are going to make a man of you. Tomorrow we will see how you can make them run. It's so easy."
To underscore the point Bashir went into one of his long spiels. Apart from his duties as SSO, Bashir was also " education officer "' at Headquarters. He was the only Punjabi officer I found who could speak Bengali fluently. B% general agreement Bashir was also a self-taught bore who gloried in the sound of his own voice.
A dhari walla (bearded man) we were told, had come to see Bashir that morning to inquire about his brother, a prominent Awami League organiser of Commilla who had been netted by the army some days earlier. Dhor gaya, Bashir said he told him :" He has run away. " The old man could'nt comprehend how his brother could have escaped on a broken leg. Neither could 1. So Major Bashir, with a: broad wink, enlightened me.
The record would show dhor gaya :" shot while escaping. "
I Never did find out whether Captain Azmat got his kill. The rebel Bengali forces who had dug in at Feni, seventy miles north of Chittagong on the highway ,to, Comilla, had tied down the 9th Division by destroying all the bridges and culverts ,in the area. General Raza was getting hell from the Eastern Command at Dacca which was anxious to have the south-eastern border sealed against escaping rebels. It was also desperately urgent to open this only land route to the north to much= needed supplies that had been piling up in the port at Chittagong.
So General Raza was understandably waspish. He flew over the area almost -daily. He also spent hours haranguing the brigade that, was bogged down at Feni. Captain Azmat, as usual, was the General's shadow. I did not see him again. But if experience is any pointer, Azmat probably had to sweat out his " kill " .and the ragging-for another three weeks. It was only on May 8 that the 9th Division was able to clear Feni and the surrounding area. By then the Bengali rebels, forced out by relentless bombing and artillery barrages, had escaped with their weapons across the neighbouring border into India.
The escape of such large numbers of armed, hard-core regulars among the Bengali ,rebels was a matter of grave concern to Lt.-Col. Aslam Baig, G-1 at 9th Division headquarters. " The Indians, " he explained, will " obviously not allow them to settle there. It would be too dangerous. So they will be allowed in on sufferance as long as they keep making sorties across the border. Unless we can kill them off, we are going ,to have serious trouble for a long time. "
Lt: Col. Baig was a popular artillery officer who had done a stint in China after the India-Pakistan war when units of the Pakistan Army were converting to Chinese equipment. He was said to be a pround family man. He also loved Cowers. He told me with unconcealed pride that during a previous posting at Comilla he had brought from China the giant scarlet waterlillies that adorn the pond opposite the headquarters. Major Bashir adored him. Extolling one officer's decisiveness Bashir told me that once they had caught a rebel officer there was a big fuss about what should be done with him. " While the others were telephoning all over for instructions," she said, " he solved the problem. Dhor gaya. Only the man's foot was left sticking out -of the ditch. "
It is hard to imagine so much brutality in the midst of so much beauty Comilla was blooming when I went there towards the end of April. The rich green ,carpet of rice paddies spreading to the horison on both sides of the road was broken here and there by bright splashes of red. That was the Gol Mohor, aptly dubbed the " Flame ,of the Forest, " coming to full bloom. Mango and coconut trees in the villages dotting the countryside were heavy with fruit. Even the terrier-sized goats skipping across the road gave evidence of the abundance of nature in Bengal. " The only ,way you can tell the male from the female, " they told me, " is that all the she-goats are pregnant. "
Fire and Murder their vengeance
In one of the most crowded areas of the entire world-Comilla district has a population density of 1,900 to the square mile-only man was nowhere to be seen.
" Where are the Bengalis ?" I had asked my escorts in the strangely empty streets of Dacca a few days earlier." They have gone to the villages, - was the stock reply. Now, in the countryside, there were still no Bengalis. Comilla town. like Dacca was heavily shuttered. And in ten miles on the road to Laksham. past silent villages, the peasants I saw could have been counted on the fingers of both hands.
There were, of course, soldiers-hundreds of unsmiling men in khaki, each with an automatic rifle. According to orders, the rifles never left their hands. The roads are constantly patrolled by tough, trigger-happy men. Wherever the army is, you won't find Bengalis.
Martial law orders, constantly repeated on the radio and in the Press, proclaim the death penalty for any one caught in the act of sabotage. If a road is obstructed or a bridge damaged or destroyed, all houses within 10 yards of the spot are liable to be demolished and their inhabitants rounded up.
The practice is even more terrible than anything the words could suggest. " Punitive action " is something that the Bengalis have come to dread.
We saw what this meant when we were approaching Hajiganj, which straddles the road to Chandpur, on the morning of April 17. A few miles before Hajiganj, a 15-foot bridge had been damaged the previous night by rebels who were still active in the area. According to Major Rathore (G-2 Ops.) an army unit had immediately been sent out to take punitive action. Long spirals of smoke could be seen on all sides up to a distance of a quarter of a mile from the damaged bridge. And as we carefully drove over a bed of wooden boards, with which it had been hastily repaired, we could see houses in the village on the right beginning to catch fire.
At the back of the village some jawans were spreading the flames with dried coconut fronds. They make excellent kindling and are normally used for cooking. We could also see a body sprawled between the coconut trees at the entrance to the village. On other side of the road another village in the rice paddies showed evidence of the fire that had gutted more than a dozen bamboo and mat huts. Hundreds of villagers had escaped before the army came. Others, like the man among the coconut trees, were slow to get away.
As we drove on, Major Rathore said, " They brought it on themselves. " I said it was surely too terrible a vengeance on innocent people for the acts of a handful of rebels. He did not answer.
A few hours later when we were again passing through Hajiganj on the way back from Chandpur, I had my first exposure to the savagery of a" kill and burn mission ".
We were still caught up in the aftermath of a tropical storm which had hit the area that afternoon. A heavy overcast made ghostly shadows on the mosque towering: above the town. Light drizzle was beginning to wet the uniforms of Captain Azhar and the four jawans riding in the exposed escort jeep behind us.
We turned a corner and found a convoy of trucks parked outside the mosque. I counted seven, all filled with jawans in battle dress. At the head of the column was& a jeep. Across the road two men, supervised by a third, were trying to batter down the door of one of more than a hundred shuttered shops lining the road. The studded teak wood door was beginning to give under the combined assault of two axes as Major Rathore brought the Toyota to a halt.
" What the hell are you doing ?"
The tallest of the trio, who was supervising the break-in, turned and peered at us. " Mota, " (Fatty) he shouted, " what the hell do you think we are doing ?"
Recognising the voice, Rathore drew a water-melon smile. It was, he informed me, his old friend " Ifty "-Major Iftikhar of the 12th Frontier Force Rifles.
Rathore :" I thought someone was looting. "
Iftikhar :" Looting ? No. We are on kill and burn. "
Waving his Land to take in the shops, he said he was going to destroy the '.ct.
Rathore :" How many did you get ?"
Iftikhar smiled bashfully.
Rathore :" Come on. How many did you get ?"
Iftikhar :" Only twelve. And by God we were lucky to get them. We would have lost those, too, if I hadn't sent my men from the back."
Prodded by Major Rathore, Iftikhar then went on to describe vividly how after much searching in Hajiganj he had discovered twelve Hindus hiding in a house on the outskirts of the town. These had been " disposed of ". Now Major Iftikhar was on the second part of his mission : burn.
By this time the shop's door had been demobilised and we found ourselves looking into one of those tiny catch-all establishments which, in these parts, go under the title " Medical & Stores. " Under the Bengali lettering the signboard carried in English the legend " Ashok Medical & Stores. " Lower down was painted " Prop. A. M. Bose. " Mr. Bose, like the rest of the people of Hajiganj, had locked and run away.
In front of the shop a small display cabinet was crammed with patent medicines, cough syrups, some bottles of mango squash, imitation jewellery, reels of coloured cotton, thread and packets of knicker elastic. Iftikhar kicked it over, smashing the light wood-work into kindling. Next he reached out for some jute shopping bags on one shelf. He took some plastic toys from another. A bundle of handkerchiefs and a small bolt of red cloth joined the pile on the floor. Iftikhar heaped them all together and borrowed a matchbox from one of the jawans sitting in our Toyota. The jawan had ideas of his own. Jumping from the vehicle he ran to the shop and tried to pull down one of the umbrellas hanging from the low ceiling of the shop. Iftikhar ordered him out.
Looting, he was sharply reminded, was against orders.
Iftikhar soon had a fire going. He threw burning jute bags into one corner of the shop, the bolt of cloth into another. The shop began to blaze. Within minutes we could hear the crackle of flames behind shuttered doors as the fire spread to the shop on the left, then on to the next one.
At this point Rathore was beginning to get anxious about the gathering darkness. So we drove on.
When I chanced to meet Major Iftikhar the next day he ruefully told me, " I burnt only sixty houses. If it hadn't rained I would have got the whole bloody lot. "
Approaching a village a few miles from Mudarfarganj we were forced to a halt by what appeared to be a man crouching againts a mud wall. One of the jawans warned it might be a fauji sniper. But after careful scouting it turned out to be a lovely young Hindu girl. She sat there with the placidity of her people, waiting for God knows who. One of the jawans had been ten years with the East Pakistan Rifles and could speak bazaar Bengali. He was told to order her into the village. She mumbled something in reply, but stayed where she was, but was ordered a second time. She was still sitting there as we drove away. " She has, " I was informed, " nowhere to go-no family, no home. "
Major Iftikhar was one of several officers assigned to kill and burn missions. They moved in after the rebels had been cleared by the army with the freedom to comb-out and destroy Hindus and " miscreants " (the official jargon for rebels) and to burn down everything in the areas from which the army had been fired at.
Three shots to kill a man
This lanky Punjabi officer liked to talk about his job. Riding with Iftikhar to the Circuit House in Comilla on another occasion he told me about his latest exploit.
“We got an old one." he said. " The bastard had grown a beard and was posing as a devout Muslim even called himself Abdul Manan. But we gave him a medical inspection and the game was up. "
Iftikhar continued :" I wanted to finish him there and then, but my men told me such a bastard deserved three shots. So I gave him one in the balls, then one in the stomach. Then I finished him off with a shot in the head. "
When I left Major Iftikhar he was headed north to Bramanbaria. His mission : Another kill and burn.
Overwhelmed with terror the Bengalis have one of two reactions. Those who can run away just seem to vanish. Whole towns have been abandoned as the army approached. Those who can't run away adopt a cringing servility which only adds humiliation to their plight.
Chandpur was an example of the first.
In the past this key river port on the Meghna was noted for its thriving business houses and gay life. At night thousands of small country boats anchored on the river's edge made it a fairy land of lights. On April 18 Chandpur was deserted. No people, no boats. Barely one per cent of the population had remained. The rest, particularly the Hindus who constituted nearly half the population, had fled.
Weirdly they had left behind thousands of Pakistani flags fluttering from every house, shop and rooftop. The effect was like a national day celebration without the crowds. It only served to emphasise the haunted look.
The flags were by way of insurance.
Somehow the word had got around that the army considered any structure without a Pakistani flag to be hostile and consequently to be destroyed. It did not matter how the Pakistani flags were made, so long as they were adorned with the crescent and star. So they came in all sizes, shapes and colours. Some flaunted blue flelds, instead of the regulation green. Obviously they had been hastily put together with the same material that had been used for the blue Bangla Desh flag. Indeed blue Pakistani flags were more common than the green. The scene in Chandpur was repeated in Hajiganj, Madarfarganj, Kasba, Brahmanbaria; all ghost towns gay, with flags.
Laksham was an example of the other reaction; cringing.
When I drove into the town the morning after it had been cleared of the rebels, all I could see was the army and literally thousands of Pakistani flags. The major in charge there had camped in the police station, and it was there that Major Rathore took us. My colleague, a Pakistani TV cameraman, had to make a propaganda film about the "return to normalcy" in Laksham-one of the endless series broadcast daily showing welcome parades and "peace meetings."
A 'Parade' and a Knowing Wink
I wondered how he could manage it but the Major said it would be no sweat. "There are enough of these bastards left to put on a good show. Give me 20 minutes.”
Lieutenant Javed of the 39 Baluch was assigned the task of rounding up a crowd. He called out to an elderly bearded man who had apparently been brought in for questioning. The man, who later gave his name as Moulana Said Mohammad Saidul Huq, insisted he was a "staunch Muslim Leaguer and not from the Awami League" (The Muslim League led the movement for an independent Pakistan in. 1947. He was all too eager to please. "I will very definitely get you at least 60 men in 20 minutes," he told Javed. "But if you give me two hours I will bring 200."
Moulana Saidul Huq was as good as his word. We had hardly drunk our flit of the deliciouly refreshing coconut milk that had been thought fully supplied by the Major when we heard shouts in the distance. "Pakistan Zindabad!" "Pakistan, army Zindabad!" "Muslim League Zindabad!" they were chanting. (Zindabad is Urdu for "Long live!") Moments later they marched into view a motley crowd of about 50 old and decrepit men and knee-high children, all waving Pakistani flags and shouting at the top of their voices. Lt. Javed gave me a knowing wink.
Within minutes the parade had grown into a "public meeting" complete with a make-shift public address system and a rapidly multiplying group of would-be speakers.
Mr. Mahbub-ur-Rahman was pushed forward to make the address of welcome to the army. He introduced himself as "N.F. College Professor of English and Arabic who had also tried for History and is a life-time member of the great Muslim, League Party."
Introduction over, Mahbub-ur-Rahman gave forth with gusto. " Punjabis and Bengalis," he said, " had united for Pakistan and we had our own traditions and culture. But we were terrorised by the Hindus and the Awami Leaguers and led astra.. Now we thank God that the Punjabi soldiers have saved us. They are the best soldiers in the world and heroes of humanity. We love and respect them from the bottom of our hearts." And so on, interminably, in the same vein.
After the "meeting" I asked the Major what he thought about the speech, "Serves the purposes," he said, "but I don't trust that bastard. I'll put him on my list."
The agony of East Bengal is not over. Perhaps the worst is yet to come.. The army is determined to go on until the "clean-up" is completed. So far the job is only half done. Two divisions of the Pakistan Army, the 9th and the 16th, were flown out from West Pakistan to "sort out" the Bengali rebels and the Hindus. This was a considerable logistical feat for a country of Pakistan's resources. More than 25,000 men were moved from the west to the east. On March 28 the two divisions were given 48 hours' notice to move. They were brought by train to Karachi from Kharian and Multan. Carrying only light bed rolls and battle packs (their equipment was to follow by sea), the troops were flown out to Dacca by PIA, the national airline. Its fleet of seven Boeings was taken off international and domestic routes and. flew the long haul (via) Ceylon continuously for 14 days. A few Air Force transport aircraft helped.
The troops went into action immediately with equipment borrowed from the 14th Division which till then constituted the Eastern Command. The 9th Division,. operating from Comilla, was ordered to seal the border in the east against movement of rebels and their supplies. The 16th Division, with headquarters at Jessore, had a similar task in the western sector of the province. They completed these assignments by the third week of May. With the rebels-those who have not been able to escape to India-boxed in a ring of steel and fire, the two army divisions are beginning to converge in a relentless comb-out operation. Ibis will, undoubtedly mean that the terror experienced in the border areas will now spread to the middle point. It could also be more painful. The human targets will have nowhere to run to.
On April 20 Lt.-Col. Baig, the flower-loving G-1 of the 9th Division, thought that the comb-out would take two months, to the middle of June. But this planning seems to have misfired. The rebel forces, using guerilla tactics, have not been subdued as easily as the army expected. Isolated and apparently unco-ordinated, the rebels have none the less bogged down the Pakistan Army in many places by the systematic destruction of roads and railways, without which the army cannot move. The ninth Division for one was hopelessly behind schedule. Now the monsoon threatens to shut down the military operation with three months of cloudbursts.
For the rainy season, the Pakistan Government obtained from China in the second week of May nine shallowdraught river gunboats. More are to come. These 80-ton gunboats with massive firepower will take over some of the responsibilities hitherto allotted to the air force and artillery, which will not be as effective when it rains. They will be supported by several hundred countrycraft which have been requisitioned and converted for military use by the addition of outboard motors. The army intends to take to the water in pursuit of the rebels.
There is also the clear prospect of famine, because of the breakdown of the distribution system. Seventeen of the 23 districts of East Pakistan are normally short of food and have to be supplied by massive imports of rice and wheat. This will not be possible this year because of the civil war. Six major bridges and thousands of smaller ones have been destroyed , making the roads impassable in many places. The railway system has been similarly disrupted though the Government claims it is "almost normal".
The road and rail tracks between the port of Chittagong and the north have been completely disrupted by the rebels who held Feni, a key road and rail junction, until May 7. Food stocks cannot move because of this devastation. In normal times only 15 per cent of food movements from Chittagong to upcountry areas were made by boat. The remaining 85 per cent was moved by road and rail. Even a 100 per cent increase in the effectiveness of river movement will leave 70 per cent of the food stocks in the warehouses of Chittagong.
Two other factors must be added. One is large-scale boarding of grain by people who have begun to anticipate the famine. This makes a tight position infinitely more difficult. The other is the Government of Pakistan's refusal to acknowledge the danger of famine publicity. Lt. Gen. Tikka Khan , the Military Governor of East Bengal, acknowledged in a radio broadcast on April 18 that he was gravely concerned about food supplies. Since then the entire Government machinery has been used to suppress the fact of the food shortage. The reason is that a famine, like the cyclone before it, could result in a massive outpouring of foreign aid-and with it the prospect of external inspection of distribution methods. That would make it impossible to conceal from the world the scale of the pogrom. So the hungry will be left to die until the clean-up is complete.
Let Them Die of Starvation
Discussing the problem in his plush air-conditioned office in Karachi recently the chairman of the Agricultural Development Bank, Mr. Qarni, said bluntly: "The famine is the result of their acts of sabotage. So let them die. Perhaps then the Bengalis will come to their senses."
THE MILITARY Government's East Bengal policy is so apparently contradictory and self-defeating that it would seem to justify the assumption that the » who rule Pakistan cannot make up their minds. Having committed the initial error of resorting to force, the Government, on this view, is stubbornly and stupidly muddling through.
There is, superficially, logic in this reasoning.
On the one hand, it is true that there is no let up in the reign of terror. The policy of subjugation is certainly being pursued with vigour in East Bengal . This is making thousands of new enemies for the Government every day and making only more definitive the separation of the two wings of Pakistan.
On the other hand, no government could be unaware that this policy must fail (There are just not enough West Pakistanis to hold down the much greater numbers in East Bengal indefinitely.) For hard administrative and economic reasons, and because of the crucial consideration of external development assistance, especially from America, it will be necessary to achieve a political settlement as quickly as possible. President Yahya Khan's Press conference on May 25 suggests that he acknowledges the force of these factors: And he said he would announce his plan for representative government in the middle of June.
All this would seem to indicate that Pakistan's military Government is moving paradoxically, in opposite directions, to compound the gravest crisis in the country's 24-years history.
This is widely held view. It sounds logical, But is it true?
My own view is that it is not. It has been my unhappy privilege to have had the opportunity to observe at first hand both what Pakistan's leaders say in the West, and what they are doing in the East.
I think that in reality there is no contradiction in the Government's East Bengal policy. East Bengal is being colonised.
This is not an arbitrary opinion of mine. The facts speak for themselves.
The first consideration of the army has been and still is the obliteration of every trace of separatism in East Bengal. This proposition is upheld by the continuing slaughter and by everything else that the Government has done in both East and West Pakistan since March 25. The decision was coldly taken by the military leaders, and they are going through with it-all too coldly.
Will The Killing Stop ?
No meaningful or viable political solution is possible in East Bengal while the pogrom continues.
The crucial question is: Will the killing stop?
I was given the army's answer by Major-General Shaukat Raza, Commanding Officer of the 9th Division, during our first meeting at Comilla on April 16.
"You must be absolutely sure," he said, "that we have not undertaken such a drastic and expensive operation-expensive both in men and money-for nothing. We've undertaken a job. We are going to finish it, not hand it over half done to the politicians so that they can mess it up again. The army can't keep coming back like this every three or four years. It has a more important task. I assure you that when we have got through with what we are doing there will never be need again for such an operations".
Major-General Shaukat Raza is one of the three divisional commanders in the field. He is in a key position. He is not given to talking through his hat.
Significantly, General Shaukat Raza's ideas were echoed by every military officer I talked to during my 10 days in East Bengal. And President Yahya Khan knows that the men who lead the troops on the ground are the de facto arbiters of Pakistan's destiny.
The single-mindedness of the army is underscored by the military operation itself. By any standard, it is a major venture. 1t is not something that can be switched on and off without the most grave consequences.
The army has already taken a terrible toll in dead and injured. It was privately said in Dacca that more officers have been killed than men and that the casualty list in East Bengal already exceeds the losses in the India-Pakistan war of September, 1965. The army will certainly not write off these "sacrifices" for illusory political considerations that have proved to be so worthless in the past.
Militarily-and it is soldiers who will be taking the decision-to call a halt to the operation at this stage would be indefensible. It would only mean more trouble with the Bengali rebels. Implacable hatred has been displayed on both sides. There can be no truce or negotiated settlement; only total victory or total defeat. Time is on the side of the Pakistan Army, not of the isolated, uncoordinated and ill-equipped rebel groups. Other circumstances, such as an expanded conflict which takes in other powers, could of course alter the picture. But as it stands today the Pakistan Army has no reason to doubt that it will eventually achieve its objective. That is why the casualites are stolidly accepted.
The enormous financial outlay already made on the East Bengal operation and its continuing heavy cost also testify to the Government's determination. The reckless manner in which funds have been poured out makes clear that the military hierarchy, having taken a calculated decision to use force, has accepted the financial outlay as a necessary investment. It was not for nothing that 25,000 soldiers were airlifted to East Bengal, a daring and expensive exercise. These two divisions, the 9th and the 16th, constituted the military reserve in West Pakistan. They have now been replaced there by expensive new recruitment.
The Chinese have helped with equipment, which is pouring down the Karakorum highway. There is some evidence that the flood is slowing down: perhaps the Chinese are having second thoughts about their commitments to the military rulers of Pakistan. But the Pakistan Government has not hesitated to pay cash from the bottom of the foreign exchange barrel for more than $ 1-million-worth of ammunition to European arms suppliers.
Conversations with senior military officers in Dacca, Rawalpindi and Karachi confirm that they see the solution to this problem in the speedy completion of the East Bengal operation, not in terms of a pull-out. The money required for that purpose now takes precedence over all other governmental expenditure. Development has virtually come to a halt.
In one sentence, the Government is too far committed militarily to abandon the East Bengal operation, which it would have to do if it sincerely wanted a political solution. President Yahya Khan is riding on the back of a tiger. But he took a calculated decision to climb up there. SO THE ARMY is not going to pull out. The Government's policy for East Bengal was spelled out to me in the Eastern Command headquarters at Dacca. It has three elements:
(I) The Bengalis have proved themselves "unreliable" and must be ruled by West Pakistanis;
(2) The Bengalis will have to be re-educated along proper Islamic lines. The " Islamisation of the masses "-this is the official jargon-is intended to eliminate secessionist tendencies and provide a strong religious bond with West Pakistan;
(3) When the Hindus have been eliminated by death and flight, their property will be used as a golden carrot to win over the under-privileged Muslim middleclass. This will provide the base for erecting administrative and political structure--, in the future.
This policy is being pursued with the utmost blatancy.
Because of the mutiny, it has been officially decreed that there will not for the present be any further recruitment of Bengalis in the defence forces. Senior air force and navy officers, who were not in anyway involved, have been moved " as a precaution " to non-sensitive positions. Bengali fighter pilots, among them some of the aces of the Air Force, had the humiliation of being grounded and moved to non-flying duties. Even PIA air crews operating between the two wings of the country have been strained clean of Bengalis.
The East Pakistan Rifles, once almost exclusively a Bengali para-military force, has ceased to exist since the mutiny. A new force, the Civil Defence Force, has been raised by recruiting Biharis and volunteers from West Pakistan. Biharis, instead of Bengalis, are also being used as the basic material for the police. They are supervised by officers sent out from West Pakistan and by secondment from the army. The new superintendent of police at Chandpur at the end of April was a military police major.
Hundreds of West Pakistani Government civil servants, doctors, and technicians for the radio, TV, telegraph and telephone services have already been sent out to East Pakistan; More are being encouraged to go with the promise of one and two-step promotions. But the transfer, when made, is obligatory. President Yahya recently issued an order making it possible to transfer civil servants to any part of Pakistan against their will.
I was told that all the commissioners of East Bengal and the district deputy commissioners will in future be either Biharis or civil officers from West Pakistan. The deputy commissioners of the districts were said to be too closely involved with the Awami League secessionist movement. In some cases, such as that of the deputy commissioner of Comilla, they were caught and shot. That particular officer had incurred the wrath of the army on March 20 when he refused to requisition petrol and food supplies "without a letter from Sheikh Mujibur Rahman."
The Government has also come down hard on the universities and colleges of East Bengal. They were considered the hot beds of conspiracy and they are being "sorted out". Many professors have fled. Some have been shot. They will be replaced by fresh recruitment from West Pakistan.
Bengali officers are also being weeded out of sensitive positions in the Civil and Foreign Services. All are currently being subjected to the most exhaustive screening.
This colonisation process quite obviously does not work even half as efficiently as the administration wishes. I was given vivid evidence of this by Major Agha, Martial Law Administrator of Comilla. He had been having a problem getting the local Bengali executive engineers to go out and repair the bridges and roads that had been destroyed or damaged by the rebels. This task kept getting snarled in red tape, and the bridges remained unrepaired. Agha, of course, knew the reason. "You can't expect them to work," he told me, "when you have been killing them and destroying their country. That at least is their point of view, and we are paying for it."
CAPTAIN DURRANI, of the Baluch Regiment, who was in charge of the company guarding the Comilla airport, had his own methods of dealing with the problem. " I have told them," he said with reference to the Bengalis maintaining the control tower, " that I will shoot anyone who even looks like he is doing something suspicious." Durranni had made good his word. A Bengali who had approached the airport a few nights earlier was shot, " Could have been a rebel,"
I was told. Durrani had another claim to fame. He had personally accounted -more than 60 men" while clearing the villages surrounding the airport.
The harsh reality of colonisation in the East is being concealed by shameless window dressing. For several weeks President Yahya Khan and Lt-Gen. Tikka Khan have been trying to get political support in East Pakistan for what they are _.:.-.e. The results have not exactly been satisfying. The support forthcoming so far has been from people like Moulvi Farid Ahmad, a Bengali lawyer in Dacca, Fazlul Quadeer Chaudhary and Professor Ghulam Azam, of the Jamat Islami, all of whom were soundly beaten in the General Elections last December.
The only prominent personality to emerge for this purpose has been Mr. Nurul Amin, an old Muslim Leaguer and former Chief Minister of the Province who was one of only two non-Awami Leaguers to be elected to the National Assembly. He is now in his seventies. But even Nurul Amin has been careful not to be too effusive. His two public statements to date have been concerned only with the "Indian interference".
Bengalis look with scorn on the few who "collaborate". Farid Ahmad and Fazlul Quadeer Chaudhury are painfully aware of this. Farid Ahmad makes a point of keeping his windows shuttered and only those who have been scrutinised and recognised through a peephole in the front door are allowed into the house.
By singularly blunt methods the Government has been able to get a grudging acquiescence from 31 Awami Leaguers who had been elected to the national and provincial assemblies. They are being kept on ice in Dacca, secluded from all but their immediate families, for the big occasion when "representative government" is to be installed. But clearly they now represent no one but themselves.
ABDUL BARI the tailor who was lucky to survive is 24 years old. That is the same age as Pakistan. The army can of course hold the country together by force. But the meaning of what it has done in East Bengal is that the dream of the men who hoped in 1947 that they were founding a Muslim nation in two equal parts has now faded. There is now little chance for a long time to come that Punjabis in the West and Bengalis in the East will fell themselves equal fellow-citizens of one nation. For the Bengalis, the future is now bleak: the unhappy submission of a colony to its conquerors.*


*Anthony Mascarenhas *was the first person _"to blow the whistle" _on the Blood-Bath that was being perpetrated in East Bengal.
He remained there and covered the conflict in great detail.


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## asad71

Anubis said:


> @asad71 bhai please write a piece about you wartime experience in the senior section.....pleezzzz!


Will do. But in bits and pieces as I go along.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## asad71

asad71 said:


> GENOCIDE
> 
> *GENOCIDE*
> *Anthony Mascarenhas*


Part II

GENOCIDE


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## asad71

*GENOCIDE*
_*(Concluding part. Continued from December 15)*_


GENOCIDE


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## M_Saint

asad71 said:


> *GENOCIDE*
> _*(Concluding part. Continued from December 15)*_
> 
> 
> GENOCIDE


Asad Bhai, please write about current genocide that is going on in BD instead of prolonging 42 year's old one. I think U need to find out that literacy and history can be easily manipulated than other academic subjects.


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## Capt.Popeye

M_Saint said:


> Asad Bhai, please write about current genocide that is going on in BD instead of prolonging 42 year's old one. I think U need to find out that literacy and history can be easily manipulated than other academic subjects.


 
No,no; let him write on. _Maybe_ he will be able to write about _his own experiences_ in that *War for Liberation!*
After all, he was supposedly a _Fauji_ too?


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## Mattrixx

Hello guys, Anyone got the link of the book
"The betrayal of east pakistan", by Amir Abdullah Khan Niazi.


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## asad71

1971: confessions - Shahzad Chaudhry


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## Al-zakir

asad71 said:


> 1.I was once a proud PA officer,and I am ashamed to say that is true.However, there has been too much of exaggeration in later reports.
> 
> 2.Allowing rapes and wanton killings only degrade the discipline and moral force in any fighting unit. No commander will allow this. In this War PA deployment was too extended often with small detachments isolated under junior NCOs. Later WP Rangers and Police elements committed the max mischief.
> 
> 3. Senior commanders of PA must,however, bear the major blame. Troops on way to BD were told to expect only Hindus in BD. Therefore, their attitude was already negative. Give you one example. Tochi Scouts were deployed in Sylhet. When they heard azan ringing out from mosques all around they were puzzled. At that time rural Pakistan did not have many mosques and azan was not heard every where always.And then they saw rows of people praying in mosques. This particular wing of the Tochi Scouts had refused to shoot at fellow Muslims and were withdrawn.



Bhai Jaan

Though I born several year after 71, however I heard stories from my elderly that Pakistan solders weren't active in main Sylhet area. Is it because Sylhet was more Islamic from rest of the country? I would like you to confirm it.

I can confirmed that no one from my family tribe got killed in 71 by Pak army.

Thanks

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## khair_ctg

asad71 said:


> GENOCIDE
> 
> *GENOCIDE*
> *Anthony Mascarenhas*


thanks for the link by Anthony Mascarenhas. i probably read it once before. Mascarenhas not only 'blew the whistle' about West Pak excesses, but also excesses by some East Pak Bengalis that sadly some Bangladeshis are flatly denying even today, and it's not even including the prior cases of treason and years of propaganda fueling a culture of anti-West Pak hatred by Hindus and extreme ALers. and this even is not including years of all-out efforts to completely rid East Pak off their Muslim heritage for a Hindu-Sanskrit orientation

an older relative of mine was saying how once in a local mango haat (bazaar) during united-Pakistan, a shop manager-type was saying that prices of mangoes were increasing that season because so many mangoes need to travel to feed West Pakistanis. the false perception was that West Pak was desert like and depended on East Pak produce (this couldn't be further from truth!). it's just one of several similar cases inciting irrational hatred among Bengalis that amazed my relative and was on his mind ever since. 

about atrocities, it's disturbing and shameful to learn about them. we know what any politics and (civlian or military) governance is like at least from current experience. and it's crazy to expect a government and military to NOT commit their own excesses (isolated or systemic) in the face of such brutality and treachery openly sponsored by a foreign hostile country. with 20/20 hindsight, obviously we can think of arguably better alternatives the united-Pakistan government or military could do that possibly would not compromise the sovereignty and honour of the Bengali Muslims at the hands of waiting drooling enemies at the border.

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## Skies

BAL and their adherent secular bangalies were as like as today, very irrational, mean, extremist, racist, and propagandist. I think all they blame games against W.pk were mostly hoax and hype. Want proof? Meet and mingle with Pakistanis, you will not find the traits that we see in our fabricated history books barring some exceptions. And look, still today those bangalies hate pakistanis out of thin air even though there is no conflicts and issues between BD and PK, and at the same time they love India even though we have 100 reasons to rebuke India.

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## kalu_miah

Anthony Mascarenhas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Google Drive Viewer

This Mascarenhas guy does not seem neutral and unbiased, mainly because he was a friend who knew Mujib to some extent and it shows from the way he tries to sugarcoat Mujib's many faults in his book. Also, his background could be another factor, he was a Christian of Goa origin with typical biased ethnocentric views most of us South Asians suffer from.

But there is some valuable info in his book that gets us closer to solving one of the puzzles I had for long. Was Mujib a traitor, did he commit treason, was he in touch with RAW?

I think people like Tajuddin, Tofael Ahmed and others in Awami League were. And if such close associates of Mujib were in touch with RAW then it was more than likely that Mujib knew about these connections, but was probably careful about not having any direct contact himself.

The other explanation is that Mujib was a poker player at professional level, so much so that he could make a living out of it, if he wanted to. So he was used to high stakes gambling. What he did in 1971 with Yahya Khan and Bhutto, the negotiation, and also whipping up of East Pakistanis into a frenzy, while allowing his underlings to be in connection with RAW, was geared towards getting maximum political windfall for the Eastern wing and himself. He was gambling with the future of entire people of Pakistan. Yahya Khan and Bhutto did give into most of his demands and the remaining points seemed to them to be unreasonable on Mujib's part, which reinforced their impression that Mujib was actually working with India to break Pakistan. By then Indian agents have already started killing Bihari's.

Even if I do not believe Mujib was a traitor in a strict legal sense as there is still no direct evidence, from circumstantial evidence, it is sufficiently clear that he did betray entire people of Pakistan of both wings and opened up a door for India to fulfill their dream of breaking Pakistan, by instigating a civil war with the killing of Bihari's using their agents. So I would say that Mujib can be blamed for the 1971 war and the death and destruction in this war, much more so than we can blame the planners of Operation Searchlight. I come to this updated view after going through some books in a website:
অধ্যায় ৩: ষড়যন্ত্রের পটভূমি
Patriot-Traitor Question
অধ্যায় ৯: ভারতীয় গুপ্তচরসংস্থা ‌র’এবং মার্কিনী সিআইয়ের ভূমিকা

@M_Saint Bhai and @asad71 Bhai, your kind comments please.


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## kalu_miah

cross posted:
Even in 1971, Awami League wasn't stating it wanted independence: Srinath Raghavan | Page 3 | Pakistan Defence

@asad71 Bhai, thanks for the post above. I found more info on this Larkana conspiracy issue here, and also a lot of other interesting info:

History of Bangladesh
Muktijuddho (Bangladesh Liberation War 1971) part 2 - oath of allegiance, future Prime Minister Mujib, Larkana Conspiracy, Bhutto meets Sheikh Mujib - History of Bangladesh
Bhasha Andolon (Bangladesh language movement 1948-1952) part 4 - Jinnah declaration, Arabization of Bangla - History of Bangladesh
Untold Facts » Blog Archive » Road to March 1971: Birth Pangs of a Nation

In the larger scheme of things, in the broad sweep of history, arrival of Islam in Bengal, formation of Pakistan and then its division in 1971, must be looked at from the larger perspective. Most non-Muslim societies and powers in the world have viewed Islam and its geopolitical goals with suspicion, as it has been a major force in the world since its birth. So whenever the question of secularization of Islamic or Muslim societies arise, there is agreement on this issue among non-Muslim powers. So the "secular Muslims" must be looked at with suspicion in any given Muslim society, as agents of non-Muslim imperial powers (or even non-Sunni powers) from near or far. In Bangladesh, Turkey, Indonesia and even Pakistan, we can see examples of this phenomenon.

So 1971 could be looked at as setback for Islam and the Muslim world and a win for the non-Muslim world, but it does not have to be. As long as our population in Bangladesh rediscovers Islam and rediscovers the value it provides against colonial oppression of non-Muslim powers from near or far, we will be on the right track.

Whether due to Indian design, or due to our own fault, particularly the fault of shortsightedness of our leaders, or a mixture of both, for which 1971 war precipitated and as a result bridges between these two Muslim communities have been burned to a large extent, it will take a lot of work to rebuild it. I think brinkmanship of Mujib and shortsightedness of communist leaders, even our venerated Bhashani, who supported an Islamic version of socialism, were specially responsible for the conflict, because they failed to see the nature of Indian threat for an independent Bangladesh. I will not mention the fault of the feudal and military elite of Pakistan who did not want to share power with an uppity East Pakistani political class, mainly because they rightly judged that the commitment of these East Pakistani leaders (Mujib, Bhashani, Shiraj Sikder et al) towards the integrity of Pakistan was questionable at best.

My personal view is that the rebuilding of bridge should start with the foundation of a neutral UN sponsored investigation, in order to delegitimize propaganda from any side, specially from our sworn enemy.

In order for us to build bridges with the greater Muslim world, there is some unfinished business. One is the matter of an Arabic as well as an English script for Bengali, which I would like to see that we start on a limited basis. Script does not make or break a living language, but changing them can make us more open to other cultures. Since we would like to limit our relationship with India and enhance our relationship with the wider globe as well as the Muslim world, I think the time has come to shift away from the Devnagari based Bangla script in a long series of steps. We do not need to abolish the original old script, but one should be able to choose the script one wants to use from among English (Latin), Arabic and original Bangla script.

@M_Saint Bhai, your kind comments please.

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## Armstrong

So @BDforever - What is happening here ?


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## M_Saint

kalu_miah said:


> cross posted:
> Even in 1971, Awami League wasn't stating it wanted independence: Srinath Raghavan | Page 3 | Pakistan Defence
> 
> @asad71 Bhai, thanks for the post above. I found more info on this Larkana conspiracy issue here, and also a lot of other interesting info:
> 
> History of Bangladesh
> Muktijuddho (Bangladesh Liberation War 1971) part 2 - oath of allegiance, future Prime Minister Mujib, Larkana Conspiracy, Bhutto meets Sheikh Mujib - History of Bangladesh
> Bhasha Andolon (Bangladesh language movement 1948-1952) part 4 - Jinnah declaration, Arabization of Bangla - History of Bangladesh
> Untold Facts » Blog Archive » Road to March 1971: Birth Pangs of a Nation
> 
> In the larger scheme of things, in the broad sweep of history, arrival of Islam in Bengal, formation of Pakistan and then its division in 1971, must be looked at from the larger perspective. Most non-Muslim societies and powers in the world have viewed Islam and its geopolitical goals with suspicion, as it has been a major force in the world since its birth. So whenever the question of secularization of Islamic or Muslim societies arise, there is agreement on this issue among non-Muslim powers. So the "secular Muslims" must be looked at with suspicion in any given Muslim society, as agents of non-Muslim imperial powers (or even non-Sunni powers) from near or far. In Bangladesh, Turkey, Indonesia and even Pakistan, we can see examples of this phenomenon.
> 
> So 1971 could be looked at as setback for Islam and the Muslim world and a win for the non-Muslim world, but it does not have to be. As long as our population in Bangladesh rediscovers Islam and rediscovers the value it provides against colonial oppression of non-Muslim powers from near or far, we will be on the right track.
> 
> Whether due to Indian design, or due to our own fault, particularly the fault of shortsightedness of our leaders, or a mixture of both, for which 1971 war precipitated and as a result bridges between these two Muslim communities have been burned to a large extent, it will take a lot of work to rebuild it. I think brinkmanship of Mujib and shortsightedness of communist leaders, even our venerated Bhashani, who supported an Islamic version of socialism, were specially responsible for the conflict, because they failed to see the nature of Indian threat for an independent Bangladesh. I will not mention the fault of the feudal and military elite of Pakistan who did not want to share power with an uppity East Pakistani political class, mainly because they rightly judged that the commitment of these East Pakistani leaders (Mujib, Bhashani, Shiraj Sikder et al) towards the integrity of Pakistan was questionable at best.
> 
> My personal view is that the rebuilding of bridge should start with the foundation of a neutral UN sponsored investigation, in order to delegitimize propaganda from any side, specially from our sworn enemy.
> 
> In order for us to build bridges with the greater Muslim world, there is some unfinished business. One is the matter of an Arabic as well as an English script for Bengali, which I would like to see that we start on a limited basis. Script does not make or break a living, but changing them can make us more open to other cultures. Since we would like to limit our relationship with India and enhance our relationship with the wider globe as well as the Muslim world, I think the time has come to shift away from the Devnagari based Bangla script in a long series of steps. We do not need to abolish the original old script, but one should be able to choose the script one wants to use from among English (Latin), Arabic and original Bangla script.
> 
> @M_Saint Bhai, your kind comments please.


Kalu Bhai, U have wonderfully summarized the saga of the creation of Bangladesh and its impact on larger perspective of Muslims. I'VE concluded that Pagan can't even convert non-practising of ours, so they have pushed communism to our land as a mid-course to Hinduise us. Unfortunately even the likes of Vashani and Siraj Sikder had swallowed that pill, for which commies of our time can openly boast on their Lathi-baita pursuits. And finally, the root of the evil (I.E. Devangiri script) has been identified that needs to be reversed back to the Sultani Bangla's script, IMHO.

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## Armstrong

M_Saint said:


> Kalu Bhai, U have wonderfully summarized the saga of the creation of Bangladesh and its impact on larger perspective of Muslims. I'VE concluded that Pagan can't even convert non-practising of ours, so they have pushed communism to our land as a mid-course to Hinduise us. Unfortunately even the likes of Vashani had swallowed that pill, for which commies of our time can openly boast on their Lathi-baita pursuit. And finally, the root of the evil (I.E. Devangiri script) has been identified that needs to be reversed back to the *Sultani Bangla's* script, IMHO.



What is that ?  

What script are you talking about ?  

And how could the script of a language provide reasoning enough to be considered 'the root of the evil' ?


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## M_Saint

Armstrong said:


> What is that ?
> 
> What script are you talking about ?
> 
> And how could the script of a language provide reasoning enough to be considered 'the root of the evil' ?


AFAIK, Sultans and their companions of Bengal used to write Bengali differently from current (Derived from Devanagari) script. That's the one I was referring. As writing is the medium of making things documented, its impact is far more than verbosity in mind and body. Perhaps the most in educational and administerial endeavors. A script closer to autocratic practice would lead UR mindset to be one it. Similarly, another to humanitarian one, would lead those to be such. Thus the medium of the written expression could be compared with DNA/ROOT'S mutation of mind, understand now?

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## Armstrong

M_Saint said:


> AFAIK, Sultans and their companions of Bengal used to write Bengali differently from current (Derived from Devanagari) script. That's the one I was referring. As writing is the medium of making things documented, its impact is far more than verbosity in mind and body. Perhaps the most in educational and administerial endeavors. A script closer to autocratic practice would lead UR mindset to be one it. Similarly, another to humanitarian one, would lead those to be such. Thus the medium of the written expression could be compared with DNA/ROOT'S mutation of mind, understand now?



Yes I understand it though I do not agree with it; the language remains yours & any change in its writing style may have emotional vestments to it as in if it was asked the Bengali should be changed to the Persian Nastaliq Script that Urdu & the rest of the languages of Pakistan are written in, in the years leading up to '71 - The Bengalis would probably never accept that ! 

But apart from that emotional vestment I don't see how changing of a script would change the thoughts of that Civilization or that Ethnicity preserved in that language unless of course if they were changed along side it !


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## kalu_miah

M_Saint said:


> Kalu Bhai, U have wonderfully summarized the saga of the creation of Bangladesh and its impact on larger perspective of Muslims. I'VE concluded that Pagan can't even convert non-practising of ours, so they have pushed communism to our land as a mid-course to Hinduise us. Unfortunately even the likes of Vashani and Siraj Sikder had swallowed that pill, for which commies of our time can openly boast on their Lathi-baita pursuits. And finally, the root of the evil (I.E. Devangiri script) has been identified that needs to be reversed back to the Sultani Bangla's script, IMHO.



M_Saint Bhai, thanks for the kind words. Marxist Communism failed spectacularly, now the largest officially communist country, PRC, is also increasingly moving towards market based economy and private ownership. So Indian plan now is to use "secular atheism" in collaboration with zionist Islamophobia industry, as an intermediate step, while at the same time continue to Hinduize our culture, using Indian Bangla satellite TV channel and Bollywood, so people can become imbued more and more with "1971 Muktijuddho chetona" read "the chetona to become proud Indian slaves".

As for the new scripts, I would support:

- Contemporary Arabic script (so we can easily learn to read and write contemporary Arabic, to build bridges with the 500 million strong Arab world)
- English alphabets (for easy learning of English, a global language, Turkey for example uses latin alphabets with some special alphabets)
- the original script to remain as an option

Language is for present and future, while keeping as much of the past alive as is practical. And we should start dropping all these Sanskrit words and use Arabic and English loan words instead. I think it will happen naturally once new scripts and alphabets are introduced.

As Iran is not an important country for Bangladesh, we have no reason to lean towards Persian scripts or loan words.

This is a new subject and does not belong in this thread. If someone is interested, we can open a new thread to discuss this issue.


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## BDforever

Armstrong said:


> So @BDforever - What is happening here ?


i do not follow this thread for long time, so i do not know

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## khair_ctg

M_Saint said:


> AFAIK, Sultans and their companions of Bengal used to write Bengali differently from current (Derived from Devanagari) script. That's the one I was referring. As writing is the medium of making things documented, its impact is far more than verbosity in mind and body. Perhaps the most in educational and administerial endeavors. A script closer to autocratic practice would lead UR mindset to be one it. Similarly, another to humanitarian one, would lead those to be such. Thus the medium of the written expression could be compared with DNA/ROOT'S mutation of mind, understand now?


i came across information on use of Farsi, Musalmani Bengali and Urdu (synonymous with Hindustani/Persianized Hindi) in Bengal, besides the exclusive Sanskrit Bengali of Hindus. i had an assumption that Bengali Muslims during then did not write Musalmani Bengali, it was only spoken. but i could be wrong. a lot changed in the colonial times I suppose as the Hindu Brahmin class ascended to power. i unfortunately don't have a lot of time at present, so i will try to post something comprehensively and with reference in the future Inshaallah

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## kalu_miah

Must read for all who want to know about 1971 war and what happened between 1972-1975 in Bangladesh:
Fulbright Scholar Stories: Lawrence Stephen Lifschultz

http://www.nirmaaan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/unfinished-revolution.pdf


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## asad71

kalu_miah said:


> Must read for all who want to know about 1971 war and what happened between 1972-1975 in Bangladesh:
> Fulbright Scholar Stories: Lawrence Stephen Lifschultz
> 
> http://www.nirmaaan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/unfinished-revolution.pdf




1.A cautionary note.Lifschultz is an American Jew posing as a journalist/columnist/writer/researcher. He has the unique distinction of having been kicked out by all three countries - BD (Gen Zia),India and Pakistan (Gen Zia). During the Afghan Jihad, Pak Intel had apprehended him in the Khyber trying to establish a link between clandestine Israelis and the Mujahids. 
2.He returned during Mush era and married a Pakistani girl teaching in Beacon Hall, Islamabad.
3. During the trial of the CIA-inspired killing of Sheikh Mujib, this guy was brought in by the prosecution to testify against the killers - although what he had to say was all;hearsay collected during his writings.
4. Obviously Lifschultz is on the payroll of both CIA and Mossad.

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## monitor

Interview reveal KGB role in creation of Bangladesh

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## kalu_miah

asad71 said:


> 1.A cautionary note.Lifschultz is an American Jew posing as a journalist/columnist/writer/researcher. He has the unique distinction of having been kicked out by all three countries - BD (Gen Zia),India and Pakistan (Gen Zia). During the Afghan Jihad, Pak Intel had apprehended him in the Khyber trying to establish a link between clandestine Israelis and the Mujahids.
> 2.He returned during Mush era and married a Pakistani girl teaching in Beacon Hall, Islamabad.
> 3. During the trial of the CIA-inspired killing of Sheikh Mujib, this guy was brought in by the prosecution to testify against the killers - although what he had to say was all;hearsay collected during his writings.
> 4. Obviously Lifschultz is on the payroll of both CIA and Mossad.



Its possible, but his writing has a lot of information that is useful and I did not find any Zionist sympathy in his writing, what I found is that he was overly sympathetic to socialist revolutionary like Col. Taher and Ziauddin, both of JSD.


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## Kompromat

*THE END OF UNION.





*​


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## asad71

kalu_miah said:


> Its possible, but his writing has a lot of information that is useful and I did not find any Zionist sympathy in his writing, what I found is that he was overly sympathetic to socialist revolutionary like Col. Taher and Ziauddin, both of JSD.


Ziauddin was initially head of the armed wing of Sarbahara Party.He headed it after the arrest and slaying of Siraj Sikdar. He had studied Marx well and some of his papers were appreciated by fellow communists in USSR and Albania. Taher used to maintain covert links with Maj Jalil and FF elements in BA, but I do not believe the armed wing of JSD was anything beyond a conceptual stage. Unlike Ziauddin, Taher had remained confused about Marxist theories, and till the end he was hoping he would be able to bring Jalil, Kader Siddiqui and Ziauddin under one forum which he would lead. Little did he realize that Siddiqui and Ziauddin were poles apart in their dogma. All along he had made frantic efforts to contact Ziauddin and Siddiqui but had failed.

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## kalu_miah

asad71 said:


> Ziauddin was initially head of the armed wing of Sarbahara Party.He headed it after the arrest and slaying of Siraj Sikdar. He had studied Marx well and some of his papers were appreciated by fellow communists in USSR and Albania. Taher used to maintain covert links with Maj Jalil and FF elements in BA, but I do not believe the armed wing of JSD was anything beyond a conceptual stage. Unlike Ziauddin, Taher had remained confused about Marxist theories, and till the end he was hoping he would be able to bring Jalil, Kader Siddiqui and Ziauddin under one forum which he would lead. Little did he realize that Siddiqui and Ziauddin were poles apart in their dogma. All along he had made frantic efforts to contact Ziauddin and Siddiqui but had failed.



My impression about Bangladesh landmass history and possible future goes like this:

- in 1947 Pakistan was created to avoid majority Hindu rule in Muslim majority regions of South Asia
- right away India's first priority became finding ways to break Pakistan (separation of two wings), to reduce the threat from the largest Muslim country in the world on its border from many sides
- brainwashing with alleged economic exploitation story starts on two fronts of leaders:
a) captitalists led by Mujib in Awami League and Army officers like Zia
b) Communists and socialists in latent future JSD members in AL such as Inu, leaders of other parties such as Bhashani and Army officers such as Jalil, Taher, Ziauddin et al
- with 6 point autonomy demand and the 1970 election, things comes to a crisis and civil war breaks out
- Taher, Ziauddin, Bhashani, Zia et al opted for independence (Mujib did not), only I think Mohd. Toaha (a Chinese leaning communist) and of course JeI leaders opposed the drive for independence
- Mujib comes back from Pakistan, takes control and start suppressing socialist and communist "Freedom Fighters", around 40,000 were killed, Ziauddin then went underground as a leader of the Sorbohara Party (led by late Shiraj Shikder)
- Mujib gets killed by right wing officers and political leaders like Moshtaque both of whom had limited grass roots or army soldier support, so they get toppled by India leaning Gen. Khaled Mosharraf
- Col. Taher and Ziauddin were planning a revolution long before Mujib killing (most Army soldiers a large portion of whom were "Freedom Fighters" were their followers)
- When Zia gets arrested by Khaled and asks for help to Taher, Taher and Ziauddin engineer the Sepahi rebellion, killing many officers as well as Khaled in cross fire
- Taher saves Major Zia, trusts him and gives him the top post
- Zia, fearing Taher's clout and the momentum of the socialist revolution, executes him and starts a right wing counter revolution
- there were 30 coups under Zia as a consequence of above, many officers and soldiers were executed, finally Zia is killed by Gen. Manjur (a friend of Taher) or his associates
- Inu and others who were socialist followers of Maj. Jalil and Col. Taher, joined AL eventually strengthening AL party grass roots support
- Gen. Moeen I heard is also another follower of Col. Taher, a former socialist/communist, who engineered the 1/11 coup to oust KZ and bring Hasina back to power

It seems to me that due to intimate knowledge of the political scene in East Pakistan and Bangladesh, India, its intelligence agencies and their overt or covert activists were able to fully utilize and capitalize on the ideological and partisan divisions within the political, Armed forces and bureaucratic classes.

Mujib was never very bright, so his performance was expected. Zia, I believe made a crucial mistake by eliminating Taher. Taher trusted Zia and if Zia could trust him back, in my personal opinion, it was possible that we could have a different more stable, independent and sovereign Bangladesh today. And Indian agents were present every step of the way to capitalize on these crucial mistakes.

Zia allowed Hasina back in and all he had to do was keep her out, but he was too confident. His confidence and fool hardiness eventually killed him. Ershad people say is a high level RAW agent. Khaleda Zia was in power for 10 years in 2 terms, but she was not bright to enough to see through the game India was playing. For example she created RAB and killed her own loyal cadres in the name of US supported War on Terror. I suspect Indian agents engineered this from behind the scenes.

First they brainwashed East Pakistani's about language (West Pakistani's are trying to take away their mother tongue), then came the economic exploitation story blowing it out of proportion (Tilke Tal kora) and finally in 1971, Pakistan Armed forces are killing our people (people did get killed out of callousness but the main effort I believe was about trying to clean the land from Indian agents and saboteurs).

Essentially East Pakistan and its population and their leaders fell for Indian tricks and was fooled by the carrot of this so called "independence". In reality they became Indian slaves under Indian boots, which has become crystal clear after latest fake election saga.

Now what, well I believe Bangladeshi leaders who still dream to get out of clutches of India, the only way left is to go back to Pakistan, mend the ties with them and ask their help to bring in China in this landmass to drive out India. China will not come here on their own, but if Pakistan can convince them, they just might take this step, together with their trusted ally. But it will take time, things will have to develop over decades in a 15-30 years time frame. The US will wake up from their dream of Asian hegemony and leave the East Asian landmass eventually (Japan and Philippines will be their last outposts) in that time frame. China will then reign supreme in this region hopefully and will be able to reshape much of the political landscape to the East of Bangladesh in all of South East Asia, reducing Indian influence/occupation in this area and eventually kicking out Indian agents from power in Bangladesh.

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## Md Akmal

kalu_miah said:


> My impression about Bangladesh landmass history and possible future goes like this:
> 
> - brainwashing with alleged economic exploitation story starts on two fronts of leaders:
> a) captitalists led by Mujib in Awami League and Army officers like Zia
> b) Communists and socialists in latent future JSD members in AL such as Inu, leaders of other parties such as Bhashani and Army officers such as Jalil, Taher, Ziauddin et al
> - with 6 point autonomy demand and the 1970 election, things comes to a crisis and civil war breaks out
> - Taher, Ziauddin, Bhashani, Zia et al opted for independence (Mujib did not), only I think Mohd. Toaha (a Chinese leaning communist) and of course JeI leaders opposed the drive for independence
> .


 
@ Are Kallu Mia, the military ring leaders were caught much before by the Pakistani Govt. Maj Zia and other associates of military were the victim of the circumstances. Once Pakistani Army started dis-arming and killing their own people (Bengalise) Maj Zia, Maj Shafiullah, Maj Jalil and other revolted. Many officers also fled from West Pakistan and joined the liberation. Maj Farouque was in Jordan on special assignment so he left the Pakistan Army and joined the movement.

@ Inu, Minu and Kinu had no "oshtitto". The liberation movement was fully supported by only by three political parties of East Pakistan. These are :
1. Awami Leaque
2.Communist Party
3. Pakistan National Party (NAP pro- USSR) led by Professor Muzafur Ahmed.

All other political parties did not supported it, like

1. Jammat-e-Islami
2. Nizam-i-Islami
3. Pakistan democratic Party (PDP) led by Nurul Amin.
4. All three fraction of Muslim Leaque.
5. NAP (Bashani)the
6. Pro-Chinese elemnts of Md Toha
7. Labour Party (Motin)
8. Pubo Bangla Shorbohara Party (Seraj Sikder)
9. The tribal people (Chakma) led by Raja TRidev Roy.
*" Khali kolshi baje beshi".* Bashani was closed arrest in India. Actually he fled to Assam via Bramah Puttra River and through there he wanted to fled to China. Then he thought why not to meet his old friend, presently the Chief Minister of Assam. But the moment he went in his house he secretly informed to RAW.

_*@ *I also supported the liberation movement. It was probably 23/24 March 1971, I went with my uncle to enjoy "Jatra". At the midnight a group of young girls started singing a song with light dress, : Perre bongo bondhu, Sk Mujibur Rahman, tu chahe, tu dede tu bangali apni jan". _

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## Armstrong

Md Akmal said:


> _I also supported the liberation movement. It was probably 23/24 March 1971, I went with my uncle to enjoy "Jatra". At the midnight a group of young girls started singing a song with light dress, : Perre bongo bondhu, Sk Mujibur Rahman, tu chahe, tu dede tu bangali apni jan". _



*Md Akmal Bhai* - You supported the Liberation Movement against us ?  

I thought we were brothers ?  

Waisee lagtaa hai that the most memorable moment for you from the entire Liberation Movement were the young girls singing a song with light dress - You naughty boy !

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## Md Akmal

Armstrong said:


> *Md Akmal Bhai* - You supported the Liberation Movement against us ?
> 
> I thought we were brothers ?
> 
> Waisee lagtaa hai that the most memorable moment for you from the entire Liberation Movement were the young girls singing a song with light dress - You naughty boy !


 
@ "Are Bhai kia kare, hamtu chote they, bap ma they, Rawalpindime, may tha residential school me (East Pakistanme) aur ham sub aleg ho gai. Ek din ek Panjabi Hawalderne muje dekkar taresh aiya aur ushne muje ek khut likhne ko kaha. Meni jhat pat ek khat likh di ". That was first hand information my parent got from that Pakistani soldier in the month of early July 1971.But I did not got the reply. Lastly I got one reply via London. That was the trajedy of my life. For three years I was "Lawarish".

@ Actually, I supported whom I myself donnot know ? Once the movement started we used to shout, "Joy Bangla ". Once Pakistan Army came so "Pakistan Zinda Bad." Even I stole one Pakistani flag and fixed it at the top of our house with a big banboo. And you know this banboo I brought from one Hindu house who fled to India before the Doctor came (Pakistani soldiers) Actually, nobody burned the Hindu houses. In the villages there is a old saying that donnot keep the house empty so people used to burn the empty houses due to fear.

@ Of course we are brothers, "Koi shak ?"

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## IamBengali



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## IamBengali

*Bangladesh*

Muslim conversions and settlement in the region now referred to as Bangladesh began in the 10th century, primarily from Arab and Persian traders and preachers. Europeans began to set up trading posts in the area in the 16th century. Eventually the area known as Bengal, primarily Hindu in the western section and mostly Muslim in the eastern half, became part of British India. Partition in 1947 resulted in an eastern wing of Pakistan in the Muslim-majority area, which became East Pakistan. Calls for greater autonomy and animosity between the eastern and western wings of Pakistan led to a Bengali independence movement. That movement, led by the Awami League (AL) and supported by India, won independence for Bangladesh in 1971, although at least 300,000 civilians died in the process. The post-independence, AL government faced daunting challenges and in 1975 was overthrown by the military, triggering a series of military coups that resulted in a military-backed government and subsequent creation of the Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP). That government also ended in a coup in 1981, followed by military-backed rule until democratic elections in 1991. The BNP and AL have alternately held power since then, with the exception of a military-backed, emergency caretaker regime that suspended parliamentary elections planned for January 2007 in an effort to reform the political system and root out corruption. That government returned the country to fully democratic rule in December 2008 with the election of the AL and Prime Minister Sheikh HASINA. With the help of international development assistance, Bangladesh has made great progress in food security since independence, and the economy has grown at an average of about 6 percent over the last two decades.


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## FulcrumD

PureAryan said:


> There is no doubt bengalis had a huge role in creating pakistan but even if they had not sided with us pakistan was bound be made, Pakistan has for most part of past 9000 years stayed united only with different names, Melluha, Sapta Sindhwa, Arywarta, Sindhu, India(not present day India) are some of pakistan's ancient names but bharat had never been united. Is there anyone who can tell me the ancient names of bharat. Pakistan is the cradle of civilization and it was and always will remain united and it has always looked at west(Middle East) and North(Central Asia) for trade and other relation.
> Never east and never will be.




What shit are u saying,the names you said are anonymous with what we called Bharat,read proper History and then come and debate here.


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## scorpionx

FulcrumD said:


> What shit are u saying,the names you said are anonymous with what we called Bharat,read proper History and then come and debate here.


Easy man,easy. You are quoting a man who was last seen three years ago.He is not going to come here and debate with you.


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## kalu_miah

cross posted:
Agartala Conspiracy confession, what does it mean for our history | Page 26

There were faults from all sides, but there is an order of magnitude difference between nepotism, favoritism, discrimination and premeditated plotting and treason to break up a country, that was just formed few years earlier, as a result of the hope and aspiration of both wings.

From the video descriptions in the thread below:
The man who broke Pakistan and created Bangladesh: Serazul Alam Khan
it is possible that Mujib came up with this dream of an independent country quite early. It is possible that when the idea of United (independent) Bengal spearheaded by Suhrawardy was not accepted by Hindu Bengali's, the idea remained as the seed of a future independent East Bengal in Mujib's mind. I think he was a cunning man who operated in a way that he could not be directly caught in early stages. When ISI caught him finally, he already became much too popular and had enough followers and supporters, so it was no longer feasible to hang him or shoot him at a firing squad. He had also been instigating Bengali bureaucrats, army officers and other professionals (from early 1960's ?) with his idea of independence.

As we get some hints of the time line, what we need to find out are:
- at what point did IB (India's Intelligence Branch, RAW was formed in 1968 as an off shoot of IB) recruited Sutar, Nirod Majumdar and Kalidas Baidya?
- at what point did IB establish contact with Mujib, via one or more of the above 3 people

Once we get definite answers to the above two questions, we will be able to draw a conclusion about Mujib's idea of independent East Bengal and whether it was there even as early as 1947, when he left Kolkata after Partition and joined Dhaka University.

If the above can be established then everything else falls into place. Language movement and all other movements of Awami League can be understood and explained in one light, smaller parts of a much bigger master plan to break up the country. Essentially SAK led Nucleus (communist/socialist) formed in 1962 and Mujib led Awami League, both of these groups either were fully in touch with India from the beginning, or they unknowingly worked as useful idiots of Indo-Soviet expansionist plan. Mujib definitely got in touch with Sutar, and Sutar returned home from Kolkata to East Bengal, probably as an IB agent or became an IB agent at a later point.

SAK led socialist/communist Nucleus formed in 1962, I believe they were in touch with Soviets. In 1969, both of these separate teams came together and started working together from that point on.

If Mujib had this dream since 1971, then it would naturally follow that he and his team and party would run full time propaganda with help of already established Hindu journalists to brainwash our masses to blow out of proportion the discrimination they faced from non-Bengali Pakistani's and start to give them the idea that making the country independent by hook or by crook, would solve all their problems and make the independent entity a prosperous developed heaven, Sonar Bangla.

During all these Indo-Soviet machinations, the Chinese were the only people that stands out as a people who were vehemently opposed to these Indo-Soviet imperialist and expansionist ideas to break a country apart. They did try to influence events through the pro-China communists in then East Pakistan to prevent the break up as a well wisher of both wings, but their efforts did not succeed.

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## kalu_miah

Yesterday night I was in a family gathering of Bangladeshi's living in the area. There were some senior gentlemen in this gathering, one 70+ gentleman was a Dhaka University student during 1971 war and another 80+ gentleman was a govt. official in then Pakistan govt. in 1971. So I thought it would be a good opportunity to sound out the issues we have been discussing in this thread and other relevant threads below and get their opinion, as they have lived through most of the turbulent period we are discussing and have first hand experience:
Agartala Conspiracy confession, what does it mean for our history
The man who broke Pakistan and created Bangladesh: Serazul Alam Khan

Now, several things about myself. I have never been involved in active politics in Bangladesh, nor have any of my immediate family members. So you could say I am from a non-political family. Also, except for a cousin who fought as a Mukti-Bahini in 1971, no other family members were involved in 1971 war. Like most Bangladeshi's who grew up after 1971, I was oblivious to these matters and became aware after I started digging these issues for the last 5-6 years.

The 80+ gentleman was not involved in 1971 war, but the 70+ gentleman did have some political experience as a university student and was actively involved in providing logistical help to Mukti-Bahini, but saw no combat experience. This gentleman had direct and personal experience with the main political players such as Mujib and his student followers and SAK that we have been discussing in these threads. This gentleman also has many close relatives that belong to Awami League.

The 70+ gentleman confirmed the following:
- that Mujib was a goon and follower of Suhrawardy, took part in Direct Action day and possibly killed Hindu's in that communal riot
- that Mujib had no Mamar Bari (Maternal Uncle ancestral village) and that he verified that he was born from Hindu origin as is alleged in this thread:
Sheikh Mujib's birth history
@Aeronaut @WebMaster @Jungibaaz @Manticore I would request to unlock above thread as I have received personal anecdotal confirmation that the thread OP is actually authentic
- Mujib and a section with Awami League were actively engaged in treason in collaboration with Indian govt. (Intelligence Bureaus and later RAW) to break Pakistan
- SAK led Nucleus created in 1962, also engaged in treason in secret and joined Mujib's group and accepted Mujib as their leader in 1969, positively in collaboration with Soviet intelligence
- the election in 1970 was a bogus sham election, this gentleman personally voted in 11 ballot paper for ballot box stuffing
- the claim of discrimination was overblown for political purposes, East Pakistan received a lot of investment in schools, universities, industrial ventures, infrastructure etc., so much so that if Pakistan did not break, Pakistan may have had a per capita GDP higher than Malaysia today, that is how positive the outlook was at that time in 1971 before the breakup
- Pakistan leaders during 24 years of rule, never resorted to killing, kidnapping and disappearance of opposition political activists, this state of total murderous chaos started in our landmass after 1971, thanks to India trained Awami League and Mujib Bahini thugs
- Ayub Khan threatened India to bomb Farakka Barage, if it was put into operation, but then after "independence" it was started with some ineffective people's resistance from a weak dependent country (read vassal state)
- now all body guards of Hasina are Hindu, also 70-80% District Commissioners and 70-80% Police SP's are Hindu, most College and University Principal and Vice Chancelors are Hindu - it seems we have pretty much gone back to the Hindu dominant era before 1947
- specially after the naked Indian interference in Bangladesh during last election, it is increasingly becoming clear to people of Bangladesh that in 1971 we did not become independent, rather we lost whatever independence and sovereignty we gained in 1947 under leadership of Jinnah

The 80+ gentleman, who I have interacted with before and who used to support the "liberation war of 1971" since he faced some discrimination as an official, also came to agreement with the above and agreed that we were fooled and misled by a group of deceptive charlatans and has become subservient to India. What we achieved in 1947, we lost that in 1971.

If any poster have any question about any of the above, please read every post and every link in the threads mentioned in this post first and then you are welcome to ask any question you may have. As always, I will not answer any question for any Indian poster or known India leaning Awami League supporting posters from Bangladesh, so please do not waste your time.

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## Bilal9

kalu_miah said:


> Yesterday night I was in a family gathering of Bangladeshi's living in the area. There were some senior gentlemen in this gathering, one 70+ gentleman was a Dhaka University student during 1971 war and another 80+ gentleman was a govt. official in then Pakistan govt. in 1971. So I thought it would be a good opportunity to sound out the issues we have been discussing in this thread and other relevant threads below and get their opinion, as they have lived through most of the turbulent period we are discussing and have first hand experience:
> Agartala Conspiracy confession, what does it mean for our history
> The man who broke Pakistan and created Bangladesh: Serazul Alam Khan
> 
> Now, several things about myself. I have never been involved in active politics in Bangladesh, nor have any of my immediate family members. So you could say I am from a non-political family. Also, except for a cousin who fought as a Mukti-Bahini in 1971, no other family members were involved in 1971 war. Like most Bangladeshi's who grew up after 1971, I was oblivious to these matters and became aware after I started digging these issues for the last 5-6 years.
> 
> The 80+ gentleman was not involved in 1971 war, but the 70+ gentleman did have some political experience as a university student and was actively involved in providing logistical help to Mukti-Bahini, but saw no combat experience. This gentleman had direct and personal experience with the main political players such as Mujib and his student followers and SAK that we have been discussing in these threads. This gentleman also has many close relatives that belong to Awami League.
> 
> The 70+ gentleman confirmed the following:
> - that Mujib was a goon and follower of Suhrawardy, took part in Direct Action day and possibly killed Hindu's in that communal riot
> - that Mujib had no Mamar Bari (Maternal Uncle ancestral village) and that he verified that he was born from Hindu origin as is alleged in this thread:
> Sheikh Mujib's birth history
> @Aeronaut @WebMaster @Jungibaaz @Manticore I would request to unlock above thread as I have received personal anecdotal confirmation that the thread OP is actually authentic
> - Mujib and a section with Awami League were actively engaged in treason in collaboration with Indian govt. (Intelligence Bureaus and later RAW) to break Pakistan
> - SAK led Nucleus created in 1962, also engaged in treason in secret and joined Mujib's group and accepted Mujib as their leader in 1969, positively in collaboration with Soviet intelligence
> - the election in 1970 was a bogus sham election, this gentleman personally voted in 11 ballot paper for ballot box stuffing
> - the claim of discrimination was overblown for political purposes, East Pakistan received a lot of investment in schools, universities, industrial ventures, infrastructure etc., so much so that if Pakistan did not break, Pakistan may have had a per capita GDP higher than Malaysia today, that is how positive the outlook was at that time in 1971 before the breakup
> - Pakistan leaders during 24 years of rule, never resorted to killing, kidnapping and disappearance of opposition political activists, this state of total murderous chaos started in our landmass after 1971, thanks to India trained Awami League and Mujib Bahini thugs
> - Ayub Khan threatened India to bomb Farakka Barage, if it was put into operation, but then after "independence" it was started with some ineffective people's resistance from a weak dependent country (read vassal state)
> - *now all body guards of Hasina are Hindu, also 70-80% District Commissioners and 70-80% Police SP's are Hindu, most College and University Principal and Vice Chancelors are Hindu - it seems we have pretty much gone back to the Hindu dominant era before 1947*
> - specially after the naked Indian interference in Bangladesh during last election, it is increasingly becoming clear to people of Bangladesh that in 1971 we did not become independent, rather we lost whatever independence and sovereignty we gained in 1947 under leadership of Jinnah
> 
> The 80+ gentleman, who I have interacted with before and who used to support the "liberation war of 1971" since he faced some discrimination as an official, also came to agreement with the above and agreed that we were fooled and misled by a group of deceptive charlatans and has become subservient to India. What we achieved in 1947, we lost that in 1971.
> 
> If any poster have any question about any of the above, please read every post and every link in the threads mentioned in this post first and then you are welcome to ask any question you may have. As always, I will not answer any question for any Indian poster or known India leaning Awami League supporting posters from Bangladesh, so please do not waste your time.



While I am fascinated (and a tiny bit disturbed) by this revelation - I have a few questions...

1. Does being Hindu mean that these DC's, SP's, principals and VC's have been political appointees by the SHW Govt.?
2. If they were not political appointees - then who appointed them? Why such a majority?
3. In a 90-10 minority scenario to their disfavor - how does a minority group get more than 90% of a certain type of leadership post? This will be hard to replicate in any country no matter how liberal they are (and certainly not in communal India)...
4. These positions would be very easy elimination targets by political rivals - this means that the appointees feel comfortable that the threat against them has been sufficiently vanquished.

I personally think the boat has now tilted too much the other way and it remains to be seen if this scenario is sustainable.

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## kalu_miah

Bilal9 said:


> While I am fascinated (and a tiny bit disturbed) by this revelation - I have a few questions...
> 
> 1. Does being Hindu mean that these DC's, SP's, principals and VC's have been political appointees by the SHW Govt.?
> 2. If they were not political appointees - then who appointed them? Why such a majority?
> 3. In a 90-10 minority scenario to their disfavor - how does a minority group get more than 90% of a certain type of leadership post? This will be hard to replicate in any country no matter how liberal they are (and certainly not in communal India)...
> 4. These positions would be very easy elimination targets by political rivals - this means that the appointees feel comfortable that the threat against them has been sufficiently vanquished.
> 
> I personally think the boat has now tilted too much the other way and it remains to be seen if this scenario is sustainable.



1. Yes
2. refer to 1, they are being promoted above others, because they are more trusted to protect AL/Hasina/India interest
3. it may not be 90% but 70-80%
4. they are ruling by gun point and with direct support from Indian intelligence, so they are untouchable for now

The status quo will remain as it is, the entire country is adjusting to this reality and will get used to it for survival, no one wants to loose their life and livelihood, specially if they have no hope to win. Only hope for future is that China may get interested in 15-20 years, if our people through people to people contact can make the Chinese govt. understand that we are natural long term allies and will join them in an unbreakable military alliance just like Pakistan.

No one should trust BNP any more as BNP itself is full of Indian agents and is asking BJP help to topple Hasina. So they have become another flavor of Indian agents as well.

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## Bilal9

kalu_miah said:


> 1. Yes
> 2. refer to 1, they are being promoted above others, because they are more trusted to protect AL/Hasina/India interest
> 3. it may not be 90% but 70-80%
> 4. they are ruling by gun point and with direct support from Indian intelligence, so they are untouchable for now
> 
> The status quo will remain as it is, the entire country is adjusting to this reality and will get used to it for survival, no one wants to loose their life and livelihood, specially if they have no hope to win. Only hope for future is that China may get interested in 15-20 years, if our people through people to people contact can make the Chinese govt. understand that we are natural long term allies and will join them in an unbreakable military alliance just like Pakistan.
> 
> No one should trust BNP any more as BNP itself is full of Indian agents and is asking BJP help to topple Hasina. So they have become another flavor of Indian agents as well.



If this is really the case then I think there should be room for a third political party but that chance is remote unfortunately.

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## asad71

kalu_miah said:


> some ineffective people's resistance from a weak dependent country (read vassal state)
> - now all body guards of Hasina are Hindu, also 70-80% District Commissioners and 70-80% Police SP's are Hindu, most College and University Principal and Vice Chancelors are Hindu - it seems we have pretty much gone back to the Hindu dominant era before 1947
> =======
> 
> 1.True statistics is not available but the above statement cannot be far from the truth. Hindus are dominant in health, commerce, banking-finance, education and media, and of course, govt jobs barring the military.
> 
> 
> 2. SHW/BAL has been able to promote them as such claiming them to be FFs - which is totally incorrect. Almost all the Hindus that had crossed over in 1971 had refused  to participate in the war. They spent all their time in the refugee camps receiving relief. It is the Muslims who did all the fighting.

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## asad71



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## Bilal9

asad71 said:


>



Very controversial video. A lot of claims were made - and almost none were substantiated. Obviously Awami league-rs oppose the video as far as the comments go in YouTube (the very concept of 'the father of the nation' has been laid open for examination like that of a body in a morgue), but half the ideas or suppositions put forth are not entirely without merit. As time goes by - events will start to be re-examined - there is no such thing as dogma or as we say in Bengali 'Dhrubo-shotto' (cardinal truth). And I don't think anti-AL forces need Pakistani help to produce such a video as claimed by the comments. Pakistan has way too many problems of their own to field right now.

Some of the things noted in the video are indeed true. These are all commonly known facts self-evident in Bangladesh nowadays,

The Sheikh was safely couped up in a Pakistani Jail - he did not face hardships of war or torture.
He was happy with a separate parliament in Dhaka and even partial self-rule before 1971, he did not want Independence when he was negotiating with Bhutto (this is not what he spoke of in political gatherings but the actual baseline he negotiated from with Bhutto. This is well documented. Of course Bhutto's ADHD-induced folly and Yahya's drunken decision-making were also factors but even in the absence of those Bangladesh was to become independent anyhow, the Sheikh consenting or not. The 4000 ton train was already in full motion, none of the actors in the melee had power to stop the event...
The entire 'govt. in exile' of Bangladesh was safely in Mujibnagar (near Meherpur, Kushtia, a town not far from the Indian border). This large section of Awami league-ers were being protected by the Indian military and never saw any combat.
So - whither now with this realization? The point is - like always, it's always the common man who feels the spirit of independence and fights the dirty wars of the 'Bada Aadmi'. Then the Bada Aadmi's wife/daughter leads the country and stashes billions in Swiss accounts. The common man/woman has to be happy with some token plaque or medal made of brass worth about fifteen dollars.

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## asad71

Here is what the *British High Commissioner, Sir Maurice James* had to say about Bhutto,
" Bhutto certainly had the right qualities for reaching the heights--drive, charm, imagination, a quick and penetrating mind, zest for life, eloquence, energy, a strong constitution, a sense of humor, and a thick skin. Such a blend is rare anywhere, and Bhutto deserved his swift rise to power.......
But there was -- how shall I put it?-- a rank odour of hellfire about him. It was a case of CORRUPTO OPTIMA PESSOMA a flawed angel. *I believe that at heart he lacked a sense of dignity and value of other people; *his own self was what counted. I sensed in him a ruthlessness and capacity for ill-doing which went far beyond what is natural.
Except at university abroad, he was surrounded by mediocrities, and all his life, for want of competition, his triumphs came too easily for his own good. *Lacking humility,* he thus came to believe himself infallible, even when yawning gaps his own experience (e.g. of military matters) laid him---as over the 1965 war--wide open to disastrous error.
*Despite his gifts, I judged that one day Bhutto would destroy himself* -- when, I could not tell. In 1965, I so reported in one of my dispatches from Pakistan as British High Commissioner. I wrote by way of clinching the point that* BHUTTO WAS BORN TO BE HANGED. *{emphasis added}. I did not intend this comment as a precise prophecy of what was going to happen to him, but fourteen years later that was what it turned out to be". MAN PROPOSES, GOD DISPOSES.* HIS HANGING MAY NOT HAVE BEEN FOR THE ALLEGED MURDER BUT HE DESERVED TO DIE FOR HIS ROLE IN BREAK UP OF PAKISTAN.”*

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## asad71

*Secret Affidavit of Yahya Khan*
Edited by: Abu Rushd, Bangla Desh
First Edition: February 2009

Published by: Bangladesh Defence Journal
"It was Bhutto, not Mujib, who broke Pakistan. Bhutto's stance in 1971 and his stubbornness harmed Pakistan's solidarity much more than Sheikh Mujib's six-point demand. 
It was his high ambitions and rigid stance that led to rebellion in East Pakistan. He riled up the Bengalis and brought an end to Pakistan's solidarity. East Pakistan broke away."
The above statement was made by former President of Pakistan General Aga Muhammed Yahya Khan (February 4, 1971– August 10, 1980) in his secret Affidavit placed with the Lahore High Court.
Twenty-seven years after his death, in December 2005 the Pakistan government released this document for public information. In this affidavit, Yahya Khan describes many sensational incidents that occurred before the 1971 war and after, during his rule. He writes of his role as President, his shortcomings, of how he was used like a pawn in a chess game. He speaks of traitors behind the scenes, of the roles played by Bhutto and Mujib, of how and why the Pakistan army cracked down on Bengalis, how far the Generals were responsible, who were behind the genocide and so on.
Other than the Hamudur Rahman Commission Report of 1972, this is the only publication containing the statements of Yahya Khan, giving his version of the events of 1971.
Once the war ended, Bhutto immediately took over power and placed President Yahya Khan under house arrest. The Bhutto government treated Yahya Khan and his family ruthlessly. When General Ziaul Huq came to power in 1977, he released Yahya Khan. It was then that Yahya decided on this affidavit, to record his statements for posterity. He made this affidavit through Advocate Manzur Ahmed Rana of the Lahore High Court.
The affidavit consists of 57 pages. Before the affidavit was filed with the court, Yahya Khan carefully scrutinised each typed page in May 1978 at his house in Rawalpindi . He made a few amendments here and there and then signed the document, declaring it to be the truth.
After a long spell of illness, this military ruler finally breathed his last in August 1980 in the house of his brother Muhammad Ali in Lahore .
In his affidavit, Yahya Khan states how the government had been pushed back against the wall. Awami League President Sheikh Mujibur Rahman gained immense power and Yahya Khan could not accept his attitude.
He says that Mujib had brought the administration to a standstill. This was unacceptable, intolerable. This was a rebellion against the government. 
He says that there was no alternative to military action against this uprising. He says he did not launch Operation Searchlight on March 25, 1971 at the behest of Bhutto or anyone else. 
He issued these order in his capacity as President and Army Chief in order to quell the uprising.
Yahya Khan, in this document, is unwilling to accept that the cessation of East Pakistan and the surrender of the Pakistan army as a military defeat. He says this is was a naked conspiracy of India. He berates India and Russia for their role in this regard and has all gratitude for the United States and China for their support. 
He terms Mujib as a patriot, but says that Awami League had a section of radical leftists who were instigating him. They did not want to relinquish the opportunity to materialise India's long cherished dream of breaking up Pakistan.
According to Yahya Khan, it was Tikka Khan who issued the orders to capture Mujib dead or alive. 
Bhutto had wanted to hang Mujib. Mujib was prepared to change his six-point demand if necessary. The news of America's Seventh Fleet and China's involvement in the war were rumours. Yahya claims that in the end he wanted to leave East Pakistan's power in the hands of Awami League.
Abu Rushd, editor of the Secret Affidavit of Yahya Khan, is a journalist. He is the Editor of Bangladesh Defence Journal.
His interest lies in investigative journalism, particularly in the fields of security and defence. He has dealt in this sector while working for various dailies in the past. It is his interest in this field that led him to publish this particular book and also to publish the Secret Affidavit of Yahya Khan in Bangladesh Defence Journal and in Amar Desh, a daily newspaper from Dhaka.
This 112-page book devotes 48 pages to the original text and 24 pages to some rare photographs. It also contains a life sketch of Yahya Khan as well as Rushd's comments on the affidavit.
The book has been dedicated to Bir Shrestha Ruhul Amin who gave his life for the country (BD) in 1971.
The book is undoubtedly of interest to those interested in the history of the "Liberation War". 
Abu Rushd says, "Gen. Yahya is nothing but a villain in our history but his accounts on 1971 surely are valuable and matters of reference in pursuing historical evidences. I hope this affidavit will make us know Yahya's part of the quagmire imposed upon us forcibly and unjustly by the Pak military junta."

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## Bilal9

Where can we get a copy of the affidavit ?


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## Md Akmal

Bilal9 said:


> Where can we get a copy of the affidavit ?


 @ The book is available on the book stall, " Book Worm ", at old airport, Tejgaon. I bought one copy 2 years back.

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## khair_ctg

asad71 said:


> Yahya Khan, in this document, is unwilling to accept that the cessation of East Pakistan and the surrender of the Pakistan army as a military defeat. He says this is was a naked conspiracy of India. He berates India and Russia for their role in this regard and has all gratitude for the United States and China for their support.
> *He terms Mujib as a patriot, but says that Awami League had a section of radical leftists who were instigating him. They did not want to relinquish the opportunity to materialise India's long cherished dream of breaking up Pakistan.*


Significant


asad71 said:


> Abu Rushd says, "Gen. Yahya is nothing but a villain in our history but his accounts on 1971 surely are valuable and matters of reference in pursuing historical evidences. I hope this affidavit will make us know Yahya's part of the quagmire imposed upon us forcibly and unjustly by the Pak military junta."


Gen. Yahya definitely had his flaws. but is India the saviour in that "our history"?

what about the quagmire imposed on entire United Pakistan by India, Russia and their agents particularly in East Pak?

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## asad71

khair_ctg said:


> Significant
> 
> Gen. Yahya definitely had his flaws. but is India the saviour in that "our history"?
> 
> what about the quagmire imposed on entire United Pakistan by India, Russia and their agents particularly in East Pak?


The mosaic of that blood strained period becomes clearer everyday.

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## angeldude13

*Remember, remember, the 16th of December
The RAWAMI Treason and plot;
I see of no reason why RAWAMI Treason
Should ever be forgot. *

Now Imagine a RAWAMI guy named Lungi fawkes


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## asad71



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## asad71



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## khair_ctg

Rare video: Bangladeshi freedom fighters are taking oath in 1971 | Page 12

@extra terrestrial 

there is nothing subjective about who was what in 1971. the Bengali Muslims who fought against their own nation (East Pakistan) were traitors - they fought FOR India and USSR.

this is not a freedom fighter-terrorist dilemma. from natives' POV, whoever works FOR the enemy (India) is a traitor. and whoever works FOR their country is a patriot or plain sane citizen. apart from a handful of extremist ultra-leftists, no Bengali voted PAL to make their country an Indian property period.

stop this sentiment because that is the rubbish that the BAL dominated media and education system taught us (including myself). there is nothing subjective; a traitor is a traitor. many Bengali irregulars ("muktis") realized very soon after 1971 that they were fighting against THEMSELVES and serving Indo-Soviet interests. some of those irregulars as well known as Kadir Siddiqui are beginning to realize that at present. my own relatives got shipment of arms to fight as "muktis". unfortunately there was a lot of messy incidents that shares no resemblance to the epic heroism narrative India and our India-dominated system promotes.

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## syedali73

khair_ctg said:


> Rare video: Bangladeshi freedom fighters are taking oath in 1971 | Page 12
> 
> @extra terrestrial
> 
> there is nothing subjective about who was what in 1971. the Bengali Muslims who fought against their own nation (East Pakistan) were traitors - they fought FOR India and USSR.
> 
> this is not a freedom fighter-terrorist dilemma. from natives' POV, whoever works FOR the enemy (India) is a traitor. and whoever works FOR their country is a patriot or plain sane citizen. apart from a handful of extremist ultra-leftists, no Bengali voted PAL to make their country an Indian property period.
> 
> stop this sentiment because that is the rubbish that the BAL dominated media and education system taught us (including myself). there is nothing subjective; a traitor is a traitor. many Bengali irregulars ("muktis") realized very soon after 1971 that they were fighting against THEMSELVES and serving Indo-Soviet interests. some of those irregulars as well known as Kadir Siddiqui are beginning to realize that at present. my own relatives got shipment of arms to fight as "muktis". unfortunately there was a lot of messy incidents that shares no resemblance to the epic heroism narrative India and our India-dominated system promotes.


I am truly amazed by your comments. Are there still some people in former East Pakistan who think like this?


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## Luffy 500

syedali73 said:


> I am truly amazed by your comments. Are there still some people in former East Pakistan who think like this?



Very few. I partially agree with khair_ctg and I do believe 71 was a disaster and India was the ultimate winner. But most young gen people have no love-lost feeling for PAK contrary to what awami media wants to portray. 71 issue is being kept alive by hasina and BAL as its their bread and butter. On the other hand fabrication of history and indo-awami propaganda narrative has made sure that people remain ignorant of 71 history. But AL is a minority in today's BD and only in power with overt backing of a resurgent India.

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## syedali73

Luffy 500 said:


> Very few. I partially agree with khair_ctg and I do believe 71 was a disaster and India was the ultimate winner. But most young gen people have no love-lost feeling for PAK contrary to what awami media wants to portray. 71 issue is being kept alive by hasina and BAL as its their bread and butter. On the other hand fabrication of history and indo-awami propaganda narrative has made sure that people remain ignorant of 71 history. But AL is a minority in today's BD and only in power with overt backing of a resurgent India.


Actually when I went to States to do my post-doc, for the first few months I shared an apartment with 4 Bengali folks. Three were younger whereas one was about 50 years old. They never made me feel that I was an outsider, in-fact helped me as much as they could. The older guy could speak Urdu and he preferred to converse in Urdu instead of English. However, I was (and they were too) careful not to discuss about 1971 saga. But then this is how most expatriates (even Indians) behave irrespective of their political inclinations.

What happened back then was truly sad and I believe Quid-e-Azam should have awarded East Pakistan full provincial autonomy right from the beginning. It would have been good for both sides, and saved countless lives. I don't think India was the ultimate winner (neither of three were) for the former East Pakistan emerged as an independent Muslim majority country and a member of the United Nation. India would have won had former East Pakistan annexed with India in any form, which did not happen.


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## Luffy 500

syedali73 said:


> Actually when I went to States to do my post-doc, for the first few months I shared an apartment with 4 Bengali folks. Three were younger whereas one was about 50 years old. They never made me feel that I was an outsider, in-fact helped me as much as they could. The older guy could speak Urdu and he preferred to converse in Urdu instead of English. However, I was (and they were too) careful not to discuss about 1971 saga. But then this is how most expatriates (even Indians) behave irrespective of their political inclinations.



Off course they won't. U think BDs will come after u for 71.  The image of BD portrayed by AL media is very different from reality. Every single TV channel is owned by AL party men with many news papers and TVs having Indian editors and management at the top. Many major Op. media outlets have been banned while those that remain have to work under very hostile environment. That's how precarious the scenario is in BD right now. India has total control. Btw people were actually getting passed 71 before AL was bought into power due to the result of an US-india coup in 2007. Had they failed in 2007, u wouldn't have seen all these fanaticism regarding 71. Brainwashing is going on pretty much unhindered though. 

Bottom line is BD is not a politically monolithic society just like all the other nations. Don't brush all BDs with the same brush. BDs don't want to eat Pak citizens alive whether its in US or in BD.

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## Luffy 500

syedali73 said:


> What happened back then was truly sad and I believe Quid-e-Azam should have awarded East Pakistan full provincial autonomy right from the beginning. It would have been good for both sides, and saved countless lives. I don't think India was the ultimate winner (neither of three were) for the former East Pakistan emerged as an independent Muslim majority country and a member of the United Nation. India would have won had former East Pakistan annexed with India in any form, which did not happen.



I do believe the federation would have sustained itself had civilian leadership of PAK was more pragmatic and the army didn't intervene from the start. Even in 71 if mujib was allowed to be PM he most likely would not have lasted the full term. Worse case scenario- it would have been an amicable separation with strong bilateral ties. He wanted to be the PM of PAK as he was a typical politician with ambitions but 0 administrative skills. Bhutto was worse though. He was the primary reason for 71 debacle IMHO. His racist feudal mentality came very handy to Indira gandhi.


I guess it was a partial victory for India. Did u know many WB intellectuals were dreaming of annexing BD/E.PAK and i don't think it was completely out of Indira's long term goals. But E.Bengal political dynamic didn't allow their wet dream to materialize. If BD becomes strong with AL and other indian dalals firmly in the pages of history with no trace in BD, then u can say that India lost in 71.

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## syedali73

Luffy 500 said:


> I do believe the federation would have sustained itself had civilian leadership of PAK was more pragmatic and the army didn't intervene from the start. Even in 71 if mujib was allowed to be PM he most likely would not have lasted the full term. Worse case scenario- it would have been an amicable separation with strong bilateral ties. He wanted to be the PM of PAK as he was a typical politician with ambitions but 0 administrative skills. Bhutto was worse though. He was the primary reason for 71 debacle IMHO. His racist feudal mentality came very handy to Indira gandhi.


Agreed.

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## Bong

Luffy 500 said:


> I do believe the federation would have sustained itself had civilian leadership of PAK was more pragmatic and the army didn't intervene from the start. Even in 71 if mujib was allowed to be PM he most likely would not have lasted the full term. Worse case scenario- it would have been an amicable separation with strong bilateral ties. He wanted to be the PM of PAK as he was a typical politician with ambitions but 0 administrative skills. Bhutto was worse though. He was the primary reason for 71 debacle IMHO. His racist feudal mentality came very handy to Indira gandhi.
> 
> 
> I guess it was a partial victory for India. Did u know many WB intellectuals were dreaming of annexing BD/E.PAK and i don't think it was completely out of Indira's long term goals. But E.Bengal political dynamic didn't allow their wet dream to materialize. If BD becomes strong with AL and other indian dalals firmly in the pages of history with no trace in BD, then u can say that India lost in 71.



Bangladesh is not the bull to justify India won it or not. See this way, East Pakistan separated itself from Pakistan union and renamed itself Bangladesh. 



syedali73 said:


> Agreed.



We all know histories. Most of us dont hate Pakistan. But many of the Pakistanis have negative attitude towards BD. 
If BD and Pak respect each other both can be beneficiary with that. I feel an urgent bonding with Pak military.
If former enemies like Vietnam and USA can work together, BD and Pak as well.
To establish, PakBD relation it will be helpful if Pakistan dont think for only particular parties relating to 1971.


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## Musalman

Bong said:


> Bangladesh is not the bull to justify India won it or not. See this way, East Pakistan separated itself from Pakistan union and renamed itself Bangladesh.
> 
> 
> 
> We all know histories. Most of us dont hate Pakistan. But many of the Pakistanis have negative attitude towards BD.
> If BD and Pak respect each other both can be beneficiary with that. I feel an urgent bonding with Pak military.
> If former enemies like Vietnam and USA can work together, BD and Pak as well.
> To establish, PakBD relation it will be helpful if Pakistan dont think for only particular parties relating to 1971.


You can not have good relationship, unless you stop killing the people who supported Pakistan in 1971


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## Bong

Musalman said:


> You can not have good relationship, unless you stop killing the people who supported Pakistan in 1971



Its not Pakistan's interest anymore. Forget it.


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## mughal arslan shah mirza

Bong said:


> . But many of the Pakistanis have negative attitude towards BD.
> .



Bro, which ones?I frankly don't think it's like that. I personally like Bangladesh and Bangladeshi people. Heck even on pdf which is a very nationalistic website, you'll have most Pakistanis explicitly maintaining that the politicians of the erst-while West Pak were to blame for separation. Yes there are people who do bad-mouth but they are not even close to majority.
The whole saga of 71 is not talked about much, in fact, it's hardly talked about in ordinary settings. It's pretty much an academic topic. The new generation of PAk would love to have a new start with Bangladesh.


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## Luffy 500

Bong said:


> Bangladesh is not the bull to justify India won it or not. See this way, East Pakistan separated itself from Pakistan union and renamed itself Bangladesh.



Yes it unfortunately is. That's how India sees it and that's how the world sees it because that is what it essentially is- an India- PAK war of 1971. Even the treaty of surrender was carried out between India & PAK. It may be hard for u to accept but not for me since i don't smoke on ekkaturer chetona.


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## Tameem

Bong said:


> *To establish, PakBD relation* it will be helpful *if Pakistan dont think for only particular parties relating to 1971*.



@Bong Its not Pakistan but Bangladesh rather Awami League more precisely itself who doesn't want to forgets *1971*....that's why consistently insisting on formal Apology instead of moving forward....which in return force special treatment for *other parties* from Pakistan...as tit for tat.


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## Armstrong

Bong said:


> But many of the Pakistanis have negative attitude towards BD.



Pakistanis don't have any negative attitudes towards Bangladeshis; we accept that we made mistakes...huge mistakes. 

The only time some negativity comes into this relationship is when Bangladeshis expect us to believe that everything.....EVERYTHING....was our fault and that they were completely blameless and that we were blood-thirsty vampires baying for East-Pakistani blood in '71 while the Mukti Bahini were the proverbial Knights in Shining Armor who could do no wrong and that the countless Biharis, West-Pakistani civilians and even Pro-Pakistan Bengalis that lost their lives suddenly stopped breathing in '71 of their own accord.


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## Bong

mughal arslan shah mirza said:


> Bro, which ones?I frankly don't think it's like that. I personally like Bangladesh and Bangladeshi people. Heck even on pdf which is a very nationalistic website, you'll have most Pakistanis explicitly maintaining that the politicians of the erst-while West Pak were to blame for separation. Yes there are people who do bad-mouth but they are not even close to majority.
> The whole saga of 71 is not talked about much, in fact, it's hardly talked about in ordinary settings. It's pretty much an academic topic. The new generation of PAk would love to have a new start with Bangladesh.



I feel close to pakistanis than the Indians. Pakistanis become quick friends. Ok only PDF gives me a bad impression of Pakistanis of $hit/Damn/dont care/and enemy attitude towards BD.


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## Bong

Tameem said:


> @Bong Its not Pakistan but Bangladesh rather Awami League more precisely itself who doesn't want to forgets *1971*....that's why consistently insisting on formal Apology instead of moving forward....which in return force special treatment for *other parties* from Pakistan...as tit for tat.



This is true. Fault of politics.



Armstrong said:


> Pakistanis don't have any negative attitudes towards Bangladeshis; we accept that we made mistakes...huge mistakes.
> 
> The only time some negativity comes into this relationship is when Bangladeshis expect us to believe that everything.....EVERYTHING....was our fault and that they were completely blameless and that we were blood-thirsty vampires baying for East-Pakistani blood in '71 while the Mukti Bahini were the proverbial Knights in Shining Armor who could do no wrong and that the countless Biharis, West-Pakistani civilians and even Pro-Pakistan Bengalis that lost their lives suddenly stopped breathing in '71 of their own accord.



Things got exaggerated. But we majority Bangladeshis support creation of BD. Some of our elders are still sympathetic to Pakistan. But we have to find ways to cooperate each other.

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## Danish saleem

The problem in Pakistan is , we never accept the peoples choice, we always want to impose our choice on people.
and the powers think that only they are patriots , and all others are traitors, that thinking demolishing the Pakistan's political structure;.


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## Musalman

Bong said:


> Its not Pakistan's interest anymore. Forget it.


They r dying for us. How can we forget


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## khair_ctg

syedali73 said:


> I am truly amazed by your comments. Are there still some people in former East Pakistan who think like this?


Yes, many. but they don't have big voice in the mainstream media and increasingly being vilified by Indian-backed BAL politically

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## khair_ctg

syedali73 said:


> Actually when I went to States to do my post-doc, for the first few months I shared an apartment with 4 Bengali folks. Three were younger whereas one was about 50 years old. They never made me feel that I was an outsider, in-fact helped me as much as they could. The older guy could speak Urdu and he preferred to converse in Urdu instead of English. However, I was (and they were too) careful not to discuss about 1971 saga. But then this is how most expatriates (even Indians) behave irrespective of their political inclinations.
> 
> What happened back then was truly sad and I believe *Quid-e-Azam should have awarded East Pakistan full provincial autonomy right from the beginning*. It would have been good for both sides, and saved countless lives. I don't think India was the ultimate winner (neither of three were) for the former East Pakistan emerged as an independent Muslim majority country and a member of the United Nation. India would have won had former East Pakistan annexed with India in any form, which did not happen.


maybe

but there was no shortage of Bengali Muslim PMs and Prime Ministers who came to power during United Pakistan, and they could have decided East and West Pakistan to be autonomous or self-governing. the fact is, that is not what the East Pakistanis wanted and East Pakistanis wanted to be with West Pakistan until India forced a separation.


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## khair_ctg

Luffy 500 said:


> I do believe the federation would have sustained itself had civilian leadership of PAK was more pragmatic and the army didn't intervene from the start. *Even in 71 if mujib was allowed to be PM he most likely would not have lasted the full term.* Worse case scenario- it would have been an amicable separation with strong bilateral ties. He wanted to be the PM of PAK as he was a typical politician with ambitions but 0 administrative skills. Bhutto was worse though. He was the primary reason for 71 debacle IMHO. His racist feudal mentality came very handy to Indira gandhi.
> 
> 
> I guess it was a partial victory for India. Did u know many WB intellectuals were dreaming of annexing BD/E.PAK and i don't think it was completely out of Indira's long term goals. But E.Bengal political dynamic didn't allow their wet dream to materialize. If BD becomes strong with AL and other indian dalals firmly in the pages of history with no trace in BD, then u can say that India lost in 71.


True. but who did not allow Sheikh Mujib to be PM? Sheikh Mujib becoming PM would have been India's worst nightmare. intelligence officers like Yuri Bezmenov have explained what was going on behind the scenes including the massive logistics mobilized to destabilize East Pakistan and then turn it into a joke. 

the subversive activities had likely started in full swing from the 1970 national elections all the way up to March 1971, when India-USSR achieved their goal i.e. prompt United Pak government to launch full military operations. United Pakistan could have either tried to stop the sabotages taking place (which they did although in an ill-advised manner) or they could have let East Pakistan get taken over by India without any resistance. East Pakistan was doomed anyway. 

East Pakistan's sorry situation at that point could be traced back to the history of this land, of its populace and the imperialist nature of the 500 ton gorilla next door, India.

I agree with you about Zulfiqar Bhutto

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## syedali73

khair_ctg said:


> maybe
> 
> but there was no shortage of Bengali Muslim PMs and Prime Ministers who came to power during United Pakistan, and they could have decided East and West Pakistan to be autonomous or self-governing. the fact is, that is not what the East Pakistanis wanted and East Pakistanis wanted to be with West Pakistan until India forced a separation.


My recollection of the history suggests that the Bengali leaders always wanted an independent state. In-fact, Mr. Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy (then Chief Minister of the United Bengal), together with other Bengali nationalists such as Abul Hashim, Sarat Chandra Bose, Satya Ranjan Bakshi, Kiran Shankar Roy, and MA Chaudhury demanded for an independent Bengal and they indeed had the support of the masses. Mr. Suhrawardy even went on with a press conference on 27 April 1947 in Delhi, and presented the proposal. I seriously doubt Mr. Suhrawardy was doing all this with the consent of Quid-e-Azam.

In my opinion, post-1947, a majority of Bengali leaders and the masses were every bit interested in the idea of an independent Bengal but rather unsure of its survivability (due to post-partition Indian animosity) without the help of the West Pakistan, hence it was delayed. Once Bengali leaders found India on their side, they took little time to sever their relations with the West Pakistan. I do agree that West Pakistani leaders made no concerted and serious effort to change the mind of the Bengalis, in-fact pushed them hard towards the extreme nationalism.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I reviewed the history and , it can be rewritten


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## extra terrestrial

khair_ctg said:


> Rare video: Bangladeshi freedom fighters are taking oath in 1971 | Page 12
> 
> @extra terrestrial
> 
> there is nothing subjective about who was what in 1971. the Bengali Muslims who fought against their own nation (East Pakistan) were traitors - they fought FOR India and USSR.
> 
> this is not a freedom fighter-terrorist dilemma. from natives' POV, whoever works FOR the enemy (India) is a traitor. and whoever works FOR their country is a patriot or plain sane citizen. apart from a handful of extremist ultra-leftists, no Bengali voted PAL to make their country an Indian property period.
> 
> stop this sentiment because that is the rubbish that the BAL dominated media and education system taught us (including myself). there is nothing subjective; a traitor is a traitor. many Bengali irregulars ("muktis") realized very soon after 1971 that they were fighting against THEMSELVES and serving Indo-Soviet interests. some of those irregulars as well known as Kadir Siddiqui are beginning to realize that at present. my own relatives got shipment of arms to fight as "muktis". unfortunately there was a lot of messy incidents that shares no resemblance to the epic heroism narrative India and our India-dominated system promotes.



Again, how was Mukti Bahini formed? Who declared the independence? It was the Bengali officers in the Pakistan armed forces who led the Mukti Bahini, the same officers who even won several gallantry awards while fighting against the 'enemy' few years back. Do you consider the likes of MAG Osmani, Ziaur Rahman as terrorist? Sheikh Mujib never aspired to have independent Bangladesh, the Mujib Bahini had no role in the war and AL leaders were just spending a holiday in Kolkata.

And do you really think Mukti Bahini would have become successful without the local support? Take the example of Shanti Bahini, despite continuous backing from India did they ever demanded independence? Nope. 

Indeed, the post war looting and other activities by Indian troops made the people against India, this is what you are terming as the realization. Nobody regretted their participation in the liberation war.

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## khair_ctg

extra terrestrial said:


> Again, how was Mukti Bahini formed? Who declared the independence? It was the Bengali officers in the Pakistan armed forces who led the Mukti Bahini, the same officers who even won several gallantry awards while fighting against the 'enemy' few years back. Do you consider the likes of MAG Osmani, Ziaur Rahman as terrorist? Sheikh Mujib never aspired to have independent Bangladesh, the Mujib Bahini had no role in the war and AL leaders were just spending a holiday in Kolkata.
> 
> And do you really think Mukti Bahini would have become successful without the local support? Take the example of Shanti Bahini, despite continuous backing from India did they ever demanded independence? Nope.
> 
> Indeed, the post war looting and other activities by Indian troops made the people against India, this is what you are terming as the realization. Nobody regretted their participation in the liberation war.


you are mixing up two broad folds of the Bengali armed movement. the war was started in urban areas through various ceremonial activities (like replacing national flag posts with 'Bangladesh' flag), illegal armaments in places like DU and carrying out attacks and kidnapping along political and ethnic lines, mass riots, etc. our military made a stupid move that fed into the armed and informational war launch by USSR-backed India. the informational war had been going on for a long time. pitting the Bengali armymen against their non-Bengali colleagues was the icing in the cake for the anti-Pakistan forces, and they were helped by the stupid decisions of the military in making that happen. 

the civilian traitors (Nucleus et al) had powerful backing and took advantage of the likes of Zia and Mohammad Ata, who were knowingly or unknowingly working against the interests of this landmass and against the concept of Pakistan that Muslims in Bengal struggled immensely for. the Bengali population's sympathies were mostly with Sheikh Mujib but the public was largely not able to comprehend or control the game played by India and USSR, and at the same time, the public's sympathies were in favour of a United Pakistan, and less so for autonomous but sovereign East and West Pakistan(s), and never so for an East Pakistan under Indian rule. the latter is what happened against our wishes. what's funny is fools like you and me were taught more bizarre things


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## khair_ctg

syedali73 said:


> My recollection of the history suggests that the Bengali leaders always wanted an independent state. In-fact, Mr. Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy (then Chief Minister of the United Bengal), together with other Bengali nationalists such as Abul Hashim, Sarat Chandra Bose, Satya Ranjan Bakshi, Kiran Shankar Roy, and MA Chaudhury demanded for an independent Bengal and they indeed had the support of the masses. Mr. Suhrawardy even went on with a press conference on 27 April 1947 in Delhi, and presented the proposal. I seriously doubt Mr. Suhrawardy was doing all this with the consent of Quid-e-Azam.
> 
> In my opinion, post-1947, a majority of Bengali leaders and the masses were every bit interested in the idea of an independent Bengal but rather unsure of its survivability (due to post-partition Indian animosity) without the help of the West Pakistan, hence it was delayed. Once Bengali leaders found India on their side, they took little time to sever their relations with the West Pakistan. I do agree that West Pakistani leaders made no concerted and serious effort to change the mind of the Bengalis, in-fact pushed them hard towards the extreme nationalism.


Husein Suharwardi called for United Bengal without stepping away from Muslim nationalism aka Pakistan. and he had MA Jinnah's backing in having West Bengal as part of an all-Bengal state, a part of East Pakistan or even a Bengistan.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

khair_ctg said:


> Rare video: Bangladeshi freedom fighters are taking oath in 1971 | Page 12
> 
> @extra terrestrial
> 
> there is nothing subjective about who was what in 1971. the Bengali Muslims who fought against their own nation (East Pakistan) were traitors - they fought FOR India and USSR.
> 
> this is not a freedom fighter-terrorist dilemma. from natives' POV, whoever works FOR the enemy (India) is a traitor. and whoever works FOR their country is a patriot or plain sane citizen. apart from a handful of extremist ultra-leftists, no Bengali voted PAL to make their country an Indian property period.
> 
> stop this sentiment because that is the rubbish that the BAL dominated media and education system taught us (including myself). there is nothing subjective; a traitor is a traitor. many Bengali irregulars ("muktis") realized very soon after 1971 that they were fighting against THEMSELVES and serving Indo-Soviet interests. some of those irregulars as well known as Kadir Siddiqui are beginning to realize that at present. my own relatives got shipment of arms to fight as "muktis". unfortunately there was a lot of messy incidents that shares no resemblance to the epic heroism narrative India and our India-dominated system promotes.



long story short is that Pakistani CIVILIAN (not military, but civilian) leadership made a bunch of political ****-ups due to ego and other reasons; and india - as per our perspective -supported a terrorist organization which used india as a launching pad for insurgency/sabotage/ethnic cleansing operations. 


LOOKING TO TODAY -BD is a developing nation with tremendous potential and a young population....It will be served better by representative leadership....not a witch puppet of a lady who just doesnt seem to give up on her visceral hatred of Pakistan and her willingness to be india's chamcha (often at the expense and dignity of her own nation)

largest killer of Bangladeshi peoples today is india - namely its border security forces


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## Bong

khair_ctg said:


> our military made a stupid move



So you are self claimed jamat supporter and still a Pakistani boot licker.

That tells a lot why today its essential to dissolve this fraction.

Either the supporter of Bangladesh will live in this country or the Pakistanis.

As you are a minority I fully support what AL is doing today. BNP, JAPA and other Islamic parties are pro BD.
Only you couldn't come out of it.

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## Luffy 500

Bong said:


> So you are self claimed jamat supporter and still a Pakistani boot licker.



Just because someone doesn't hold your bias views doesn't make him a jamati. Look at how
@*extra terrestrial* is arguing with @khair_ctg. None of them r giving the other a party label. BD is not a politically monolithic society and this is something awami chetona addicts must come to terms with, otherwise they will be obliterated Insha'Allah. JeI is as much bangladeshis today as u and me and its here to stay whether u like it or not.



> That tells a lot why today its essential to dissolve this fraction.



It doesn't tell anything apart from the fact that u want to remain intolerant of opposition views. Anyway u can't practically dissolve a party that has 10% electoral support in BD.




> Either the supporter of Bangladesh will live in this country or the Pakistanis.



Who decided that? U? How do u define supporter of BD and PAK? Those that doesn't fit your ignorant bias narrative becomes anti-BD? Your subjective narration doesn't define bangladeshis.




> As you are a minority I fully support what AL is doing today. BNP, JAPA and other Islamic parties are pro BD.
> Only you couldn't come out of it.




*All islamic parties * in 71 were against separation and they had justifiable logical grounds for that. Your definition of pro- BD is also subjective and hence prone to bias.


Btw unconditional loyalty to AL and praising mujib while bending over backwards to serve India isn't pro-BD, if that's what u mean. Such "pro-BDs" are a minority in BD.


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## khair_ctg

Bong said:


> So you are self claimed jamat supporter and still a Pakistani boot licker.
> 
> That tells a lot why today its essential to dissolve this fraction.
> 
> Either the supporter of Bangladesh will live in this country or the Pakistanis.
> 
> As you are a minority I fully support what AL is doing today. BNP, JAPA and other Islamic parties are pro BD.
> Only you couldn't come out of it.


So you wish the extermination of patriotic people - ones who oppose Indian annexation and proxy control of this land. And what else does one expect from an ethnic fundamentalist educated in the unofficial Indian province/Indian prison called Bangladesh. Your name says a lot, a Sanskrit term after the pre-Muslim term "vanga" that Bengali Hindus have also called "bongo". hence "bong" a popular term for Bengali babus of India that does not even exist in BD popular culture. Maybe the "Bangladesh" you think you are part of is something India gave birth to in 1971. The "Bangladesh" i think i am a part of existed from time immemorial and exists (or supposed to exist) as a separate entity for a long history of events culminating into 1947. The only ones who should be eligible to claim Bangladeshi are those who accept the latter. But i don't wish for the extermination of Indian bootlickers claiming to be the "purest BDis" either. Because that is the reality of this land. Since the Hindu takeover of Bengal in the 18th century, the Muslims although greater in number will always be the subservient minnows as shown by your subservient vile mindset.
I do bootlick the concept of Pakistan because i'm a BDi nationalistic person. I bootlick Pakistan because it is my dad's property; because it was born in Dhaka. And news for you is notable people from across BNP, BAL and JeI are doing the same


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## Bong

Luffy 500 said:


> Just because someone doesn't hold your bias views doesn't make him a jamati. Look at how
> @*extra terrestrial* is arguing with @khair_ctg. None of them r giving the other a party label. BD is not a politically monolithic society and this is something awami chetona addicts must come to terms with otherwise they will be obliterated for the sake of this country Insha'Allah. JeI is as much bangladeshis today as u and me and its here to stay whether u like it or not.



@khair_ctg replied me in another thread he is proud jamat supporter. He has allergy only when someone calls him jamati. Your backing isnt necessary.


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## Bong

khair_ctg said:


> So you wish the extermination of patriotic people - ones who oppose Indian annexation and proxy control of this land. And what else does one expect from an ethnic fundamentalist educated in the unofficial Indian province/Indian prison called Bangladesh. Your name says a lot, a Sanskrit term after the pre-Muslim term "vanga" that Bengali Hindus have also called "bongo". hence "bong" a popular term for Bengali babus of India that does not even exist in BD popular culture. Maybe the "Bangladesh" you think you are part of is something India gave birth to in 1971. The "Bangladesh" i think i am a part of existed from time immemorial and exists (or supposed to exist) as a separate entity for a long history of events culminating into 1947. The only ones who should be eligible to claim Bangladeshi are those who accept the latter. But i don't wish for the extermination of Indian bootlickers claiming to be the "purest BDis" either. Because that is the reality of this land. Since the Hindu takeover of Bengal in the 18th century, the Muslims although greater in number will always be the subservient minnows as shown by your subservient vile mindset.
> I do bootlick the concept of Pakistan because i'm a BDi nationalistic person. I bootlick Pakistan because it is my dad's property; because it was born in Dhaka. And news for you is notable people from across BNP, BAL and JeI are doing the same



Please do boot lick anyone. No one cares. But only looks stupid when someone other than Bangladeshis look on this nation how much confuse this nation is. Within some years how many identities they made. How insecure these people are.

I welcome your anti BD and pro Pakistani views. But are you pro India too, as it was your nation too?

JI and AL has their own versions of history. ALs one go with the majority. Both has their logics.
But JI is also growing in number. When JI will be the majority this country will see another war. Also will pull our legs behind.
So its high time to demolish it when its showing some signs.

I wish your extermination as you wont understand how dangerous you are for everything.
I wish your extermination as I wish it for ISIS also. They are also very patriotic..


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## Bong

Luffy 500 said:


> It doesn't tell anything apart from the fact that u want to remain intolerant of opposition views. Anyway u can't practically dissolve a party that has 10% electoral support in BD.
> 
> 
> Who decided that? U? How do u define supporter of BD and PAK? Those that doesn't fit your ignorant bias narrative becomes anti-BD? Your subjective narration doesn't define bangladeshis.



Who he thinks to join Pakistan and India should be treated mercilessly. Defaming them and their families equally. Bangladesh is a reality. Who he denies it should be sent to straight hell. We were always separate and always will be.




Luffy 500 said:


> *All islamic parties *in 71 were against separation and they had justifiable logical grounds for that. Your definition of pro- BD is also subjective and hence prone to bias.
> 
> 
> Btw unconditional loyalty to AL and praising mujib while bending over backwards to serve India isn't pro-BD, if that's what u mean. Such "pro-BDs" are a minority in BD.



Anyone who accepts BD and supports its spirit of separate identity movements should be pro BD. All are just joker.


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## Luffy 500

Bong said:


> Who he thinks to join Pakistan and India should be treated mercilessly. Defaming them and their families equally. Bangladesh is a reality. Who he denies it should be sent to straight hell. We were always separate and always will be.



That's the mentality of a low life racist intolerant bigot of the highest order. U want to kill people based on political lines? Typical awami chetona mentality living in your la la land.




> Anyone who accepts BD and supports its spirit of separate identity movements should be pro BD. All are just joker.



As i said before idea of pro-this and pro-that r subjective and based on political beliefs of individuals in which case yours is based on bigoted awami chetona mentality. Define spirit of separate identity? Awami chetona spirit is NOT BD's identity. AL is just a faction of BD's vast polity and doesn't define BD. There's a reason it has many parties like BNP with Bangladeshi nationalism and  islamic parties who aspire BD to focus on its muslim identity.

Jokers r those whose world start with 71 and end with 71.


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## Bong

Luffy 500 said:


> That's the mentality of a low life racist intolerant bigot of the highest order. U want to kill people based on political lines? Typical awami chetona mentality living in your la la land.
> 
> 
> As i said before idea of pro-this and that r subjective based on political narrative of individual in which case your's is based on bigoted awami chetona mentality. Define spirit of separate identity? Awami chetona spirit is NOT BD's identity. AL is just a faction of BD's vast polity and doesn't define BD. There's a reason it has many parties like BNP with Bangladeshi nationalism and islamic parties who aspire BD to focus on its muslim identity.
> 
> Jokers r those whose world start with 71 and end with 71.
> And stop defaming BNP its pro BD than anyone



Stop these jokes. BNP walas are more 71 minded than AL walas. Thats 90% mentality. The 10% you claimed includes some percents from BNP.


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## Luffy 500

Bong said:


> Stop these jokes. BNP walas are more 71 minded than AL walas. Thats 90% mentality. The 10% you claimed includes some percents from BNP.



Joke is on u. U have 0 idea of what  constitute a nation state. U can't even define 71 mindedness. AL version of 71 is different from BNP's version. According to Awami chetona narrative BNP walas r razakars , infact apart from AL supporters all r razakars which would include 70% of pop. at least.  

And what's with all the %? Even 10% means 1.5 cr BDs who are humans with flesh & blood. But i guess bigoted mentality chetona addicts don't have the intellect to understand this very fundamental notion.

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## Bong

Luffy 500 said:


> Joke is on u. U have 0 idea of what constitute a nation state. U can't even define 71 mindedness. AL version of 71 is different from BNP's version. According to Awami chetona narrative BNP walas r razakars , infact apart from AL supporters all r razakars which would include 70% of pop. at least.
> 
> And what's with all the %? Even 10% means 1.5 cr BDs who are humans with flesh & blood. But i guess bigoted mentality chetona addicts don't have the intellect to understand this very fundamental notion.



BNP and AL can have different views on 71. Because they claim themselves they are the one who fought against PAK.
Use to accuse one another pro Pak and pro Indians to gain political superiority. Because its a shame for them if anyone calls them pro to any other countries.

The % because its unspecified how much is JI support. That includes pro BD BNP votes. JI support can be even 1%.


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## Armstrong

@BDforever - I forgive you !

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## Luffy 500

Bong said:


> BNP and AL can have different views on 71. Because they claim themselves they are the one who fought against PAK.
> Use to accuse one another pro Pak and pro Indians to gain political superiority. Because its a shame for them if anyone calls them pro to any other countries.



Thus u can't have define pro-BD and anti-BD since its based on political ideology and narrative. Good to see u coming to the point after running around in circles. 

Btw No one called pro-any other country yet not BNP or JeI but many awami maggot ministers proudly boast about their indian dalali in public. Yeah its a shme that indian-awami charals boot licks India.



> The % because its unspecified how much is JI support. That includes pro BD BNP votes. JI support can be even 1%.



Again what's with the %. Even for the sake of argument 1% is 1.5 mn (15 lac). What do u want to do, orchestrate a genocide?

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## Bong

Luffy 500 said:


> Thus u can't have define pro-BD and anti-BD since its based on political ideology and narrative. Good to see u coming to the point after running around in circles.
> 
> Btw No one called pro-any other country yet not BNP or JeI but many awami maggot ministers proudly boast about their indian dalali in public. Yeah its a shme that indian-awami charals boot licks India.
> 
> 
> 
> Again what's with the %. Even for the sake of argument 1% is 1.5 mn (15 lac). What do u want to do, orchestrate a genocide?



For greater good its happening by hanging the pro leaders only. Elimination of the think tanks will be a good riddance.
Though I feel sorry.


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## Bong

As if its viable to protect a distinct part which is far away and surrounded by strong enemy country.
Bangladesh just protected itself by separating from Pakistan. Or else Pakistan could trade it with Kashmir.
Or could lose east pakistan anyday without minimal military resistance.
This joker @khair_ctg is very funny.


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## khair_ctg

Bong said:


> @khair_ctg replied me in another thread he is proud jamat supporter. He has allergy only when someone calls him jamati. Your backing isnt necessary.


the only problem i have with people using "jamaati" is it makes them look uneducated. "jamat" carries a meaning for Muslims i.e. it is a group, any group or a prayer congregation. calling anyone jamaati but to mean something else is silly. am i a JeI (party) supporter? i think JeI is the most principled major political party of BD. just one thing is they maintain they opposed the 1971 Indian annexation of Bangladesh. and i highly appreciate that. do i have any affiliation with JeI or BNP? no and i don't even follow much day to day politics

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## khair_ctg

Bong said:


> As if its viable to protect a distinct part which is far away and surrounded by strong enemy country.
> Bangladesh just protected itself by separating from Pakistan. Or else Pakistan could trade it with Kashmir.
> Or could lose east pakistan anyday without minimal military resistance.
> This joker @khair_ctg is very funny.


"Bangladesh just protected itself by separating from Pakistan" - i didn't understand it. did Bangladesh "protect itself" by getting annexed by India? the separation of East and West Pakistan would have been completely fine if each of them remained sovereign from an enemy. but that was not the case with East Pakistan. it became a property of India. and separation of the two wings were not even demanded by the East Pakistani populace or by their favoured party in 1970, Pak Awami League. East Pakistan's defence was very weak - i agree. but it was both physical and psychological. about the physical part of defence, that was a premier complain from leading East Pakistani political parties following our war with India in 1965. although that can be traced back to colonial times and Hindu domination of the Bengal but United Pakistan could have put tremendous emphasis on the military and defence of East Pakistan. but then as India had psychologically also somewhat penetrated the 'defences' of East Pakistan, just having stronger military may not have been enough. then again this is from 20/20 hindsight and it still doesn't mean India should have invaded EP at least from the POV of someone who is not an Indian imperialist

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## Bong

khair_ctg said:


> "Bangladesh just protected itself by separating from Pakistan" - i didn't understand it. did Bangladesh "protect itself" by getting annexed by India? the separation of East and West Pakistan would have been completely fine if each of them remained sovereign from an enemy. but that was not the case with East Pakistan. it became a property of India. and separation of the two wings were not even demanded by the East Pakistani populace or by their favoured party in 1970, Pak Awami League. East Pakistan's defence was very weak - i agree. but it was both physical and psychological. about the physical part of defence, that was a premier complain from leading East Pakistani political parties following our war with India in 1965. although that can be traced back to colonial times and Hindu domination of the Bengal but United Pakistan could have put tremendous emphasis on the military and defence of East Pakistan. but then as India had psychologically also somewhat penetrated the 'defences' of East Pakistan, just having stronger military may not have been enough. then again this is from 20/20 hindsight and it still doesn't mean India should have invaded EP at least from the POV of someone who is not an Indian imperialist



Why you think BD isnt sovereign? Where no one says it. BD just made friendly relation with its former enemy to avoid less troubles. What makes you think BD become India's property. India is BD's friendly enemy. To us all its enemy but what good you can do with that. AL JI didnt want it. But today no one thinks otherwise that way you see. Im not used to these big talks. BD is at its. Just don't be victim of inferiority complex.


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## khair_ctg

Luffy 500 said:


> Again what's with the %. Even for the sake of argument 1% is 1.5 mn (15 lac). What do u want to do, orchestrate a genocide?


sadly a genocide is exactly what the Bengali fundamentalists attempted on patriotic Bengalis and Mohajirs around 1971. what Vong is implying is not new

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## Luffy 500

khair_ctg said:


> sadly a genocide is exactly what the Bengali fundamentalists attempted on patriotic Bengalis and Mohajirs around 1971. what Vong is implying is not new



Actually i am not surprised in the least. Facism is basis of their policies and politics.

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## Bong

khair_ctg said:


> sadly a genocide is exactly what the Bengali fundamentalists attempted on patriotic Bengalis and Mohajirs around 1971. what Vong is implying is not new



Get this straight 1905 to 1971 all separate land movements are pro BD element. If you deny them you will be pro to another country not BD. What your ancestors did or you did doesn't matter today.


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## Rajput_Pakistani

*Ham ke Thehre ajnabi itni mulaaqaatoN ke baad
phir baneiN ge aashna kitni madaaraatoN ke baad*

*kab nazar meiN aaye gi be daaGh sabze ki bahaar
khoon ke dhabe dhuleiN ge kitni barsaatoN ke baad*

*the bahut bedard lamhe khat’m-e-dard-e-ishq ke
theiN bahut bemeh’r subheiN meh’rbaaN raatoN ke baad*

*dil to chaaha par shikast-e-dil ne moh’lat hi na di
kuchh gile shikwe bhi kar lete manaajaatoN ke baad*

*un se jo kehne gaye the “Faiz” jaaN sadqe kiye
an kahi hi reh gayi woh baat sab baatoN ke baad*

*(Faiz Ahmad Faiz)*

*English trasnlation by Agha Shahid Ali:*

*After those many encounters, that easy intimacy,
we are strangers now –
After how many meetings will we be that close again?

When will we again see a spring of unstained green?
After how many monsoons will the blood be washed from the branches?

And so crushed was the heart that though it wished
it found no chance –
after the entreaties, after the despair — for us to quarrel once again as old friends.

So relentless was the end of love, so heartless –
After the nights of tenderness, the dawns were pitiless, so pitiless.

Faiz, what you’d gone to say, ready to offer everything,
even your life – those healing words remained unspoken after all else had been said.
*

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## khair_ctg

Bong said:


> Get this straight 1905 to 1971 all separate land movements are pro BD element. If you deny them you will be pro to another country not BD. What your ancestors did or you did doesn't matter today.


if you think what happened in 1905-1947, and what happened in 1971 are the same thing, you need to do some reading or you are afraid of reality. such rejection of all politics of Muslims before 1971 Indian invasion is shocking coming from someone claiming to be a Muslim of the land. if you think you are pro Bd at least respect why the borders of Bd exist

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## Tameem

Bong said:


> We had nothing in common with west PK.United pk was a mistake.



So, Mr. Ian Stine, you thinks Bangladesh still be a reality without inception of United Pakistan in 1947.......truly genius

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## Bong

Tameem said:


> So, Mr. Ian Stine, you thinks Bangladesh still be a reality without inception of United Pakistan in 1947.......truly genius



Read Lahore resolution. We were supposed to create our separate country with our muslim people in the East. If Jinnah didnt differ.


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## Tameem

Bong said:


> Read Lahore resolution. We were supposed to create our separate country with our muslim people in the East. If Jinnah didnt differ.



Now, there is no doubt of your ingenuity.....Yes Partition of British-India possible without collective Muslims efforts & struggle under Jinnah.

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## Bong

Tameem said:


> Now, there is no doubt of your ingenuity.....Yes Partition of British-India possible without collective Muslims efforts & struggle under Jinnah.



I didnt say that. Read the Lahore resolution again. We were supposed to create east west Muslim countries separately.
But Jinnah differed and proposed for only one country.


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## Tameem

Bong said:


> I didnt say that.



Yes you did, by ejaculating to say we have nothing in common & can achieve Bengal Independence by our very own and pure Bengali leadership 



Bong said:


> *We* were supposed to create east west Muslim countries separately.

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## Luffy 500

Bong said:


> Read Lahore resolution. We were supposed to create our separate country with our muslim people in the East. If Jinnah didnt differ.





Bong said:


> I didnt say that. Read the Lahore resolution again. We were supposed to create east west Muslim countries separately.
> But Jinnah differed and proposed for only one country.



It seems u r the one who need to do some reading here. The pagan babus of WB were the ones against an independent bengal NOT Jinnah. The congress would not have allowed a third country based on ethnicity as that would have propelled disintegration of their own union into a 100 states . It was the muslims of E.beganl who also wanted PAK and NOT an independent bengal and the leaders such as Ak fazlul haq understood such political dynamics very well. U as expected know jack shit abt history and turning out to be a laughing stock.

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## khair_ctg

Bong said:


> Read Lahore resolution. We were supposed to create our separate country with our muslim people in the East. If Jinnah didnt differ.


so why did East Pakistani Bengalis go against Lahore Resolution by voting for Awami League to lead ENTIRE United Pakistan in 1970? or why did our forefathers support leaders like Khwaja Nazimuddin, Fazl ul-Haq or Shheed Suharwardi around 1947 to make a union between Muslim East and Muslim West of the subcontinent?



Bong said:


> Read Lahore resolution. We were supposed to create our separate country with our muslim people in the East. If Jinnah didnt differ.


where in the Lahore Resolution did it say that East Bengal Muslims have to come under Indian control to become 'independent'?

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## Kompromat

Bong said:


> Read Lahore resolution. We were supposed to create our separate country with our muslim people in the East. If Jinnah didnt differ.



Now you have your 'separate country' a silver plated gift from KGB and RAW. Please have some mercy and stop bothering us. We share no interest with you anymore except religion.


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## Bong

Horus said:


> Now you have your 'separate country' a silver plated gift from KGB and RAW. Please have some mercy and stop bothering us. We share no interest with you anymore except religion.



That is the point. Why these traitors above always mock our independence. All day they will say against BD independence and will back their jamaati brethren. We dont care about Pakistan anymore but these people always drag us in.


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## Kompromat

Bong said:


> That is the point. Why these traitors above always mock our independence. All day they will say against BD independence and will back their jamaati brethren. We dont care about Pakistan anymore but these people always drag us in.



Dealing with your own countrymen is your problem Sir.


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## Bong

Horus said:


> Dealing with your own countrymen is your problem Sir.



Strange thing is they found a good harbor in a Pakistani forum. Because of Pakistani grace they cant be dealt ideally either.
And talking with them will lead Pakistani Bangladeshi negativity. So wont reply them anymore. But see these insults they make all day to prove BD inferior. You guys left us long but see what kinds of creatures left behind. Pity on them.


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## Kompromat

Bong said:


> Strange thing is they found a good harbor in a Pakistani forum. Because of Pakistani grace they cant be dealt ideally either.
> And talking with them will lead Pakistani Bangladeshi negativity. So wont reply them anymore. But see these insults they make all day to prove BD inferior. You guys left us long but see what kinds of creatures left behind. Pity on them.




We didn't 'leave' you.
We didn't left anything or anyone behind
Its been 40+ years, we no longer remember it.


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## khair_ctg

2 Days to go... Victory Day for Bangladeshi nation. A tribute to Freedom Fighters | Page 7

@syedali73 

since that thread was closed i am replying you here.

"It was/is this mindset that led to the partition of East Pakistan from the West. Truth is, hardly any Pakistani cared about East Pakistan or even what they currently have, the remaining Pakistan"

what led to the separation of East and West Pakistan is the Indian invasion of East Pakistan.

what led to the Indian invasion of East Pakistan was/is a marriage between India's imperialist goals and some extreme Bengali leftists' anti-Muslim ideology.

you are right my posts are pro-Pakistan - the Pakistan which includes two nations today called "Bangladesh" and "Pakistan" which was founded through the words of Allama Iqbal, through the leadership of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Fazl ul-Haq and Shaheed Suharwardy, through the leadership of Khwaja Nazimuddin, and the struggles of Muslim workers, intellectuals and peasantry from Bengal to Punjab, Sindh, Kashmir and Pathan regions,

the people of remaining Pakistan (former West Pakistan) may not be caring enough because they have not gotten the taste of being invaded and ruled by proxy by India.


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## TopCat

khair_ctg said:


> 2 Days to go... Victory Day for Bangladeshi nation. A tribute to Freedom Fighters | Page 7
> 
> @syedali73
> 
> since that thread was closed i am replying you here.
> 
> "It was/is this mindset that led to the partition of East Pakistan from the West. Truth is, hardly any Pakistani cared about East Pakistan or even what they currently have, the remaining Pakistan"
> 
> what led to the separation of East and West Pakistan is the Indian invasion of East Pakistan.
> 
> what led to the Indian invasion of East Pakistan was/is a marriage between India's imperialist goals and some extreme Bengali leftists' anti-Muslim ideology.
> 
> you are right my posts are pro-Pakistan - the Pakistan which includes two nations today called "Bangladesh" and "Pakistan" which was founded through the words of Allama Iqbal, through the leadership of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Fazl ul-Haq and Shaheed Suharwardy, through the leadership of Khwaja Nazimuddin, and the struggles of Muslim workers, intellectuals and peasantry from Bengal to Punjab, Sindh, Kashmir and Pathan regions,
> 
> the people of remaining Pakistan (former West Pakistan) may not be caring enough because they have not gotten the taste of being invaded and ruled by proxy by India.




BD should had looked for its own destiny from the very first day of 1947. We could had chalked out a better deal with the then Hindus of Bengal if we did leave West Pakistan alone and planned for a unified stronger Bengal independent of India. In that deal you yourself would not had to loose everything in India and leave for East Pakistan.


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## Irfan Hanif

PaKistan Army at that time was "Haari Hoi Fauj K jeety hovy Sipahi". Fighting troops fight till their last bullets but lost the war in Political Field. But this nation always rise up after big shocks. Just look current scenario how well our nation unite after Peshawar Incident. Pakistan Zindabad...

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## khair_ctg

Irfan Hanif said:


> PaKistan Army at that time was "Haari Hoi Fauj K jeety hovy Sipahi". Fighting troops fight till their last bullets but lost the war in Political Field. But this nation always rise up after big shocks. Just look current scenario how well our nation unite after Peshawar Incident. Pakistan Zindabad...


the main challenge was for East Pakistan/Bangladesh to defend against Indian aggression that put an end to its 1947 framework and imposed in its place a foreign system that has no link to the struggles and political movement leading up to 1947 formation. 

by the way what does this Punjabi saying mean "Haari Hoi Fauj K jeety hovy Sipahi"?


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## bongbang

khair_ctg said:


> the main challenge was for East Pakistan/Bangladesh to defend against Indian aggression that put an end to its 1947 framework and imposed in its place a foreign system that has no link to the struggles and political movement leading up to 1947 formation.
> 
> b*y the way what does this Punjabi saying mean "Haari Hoi Fauj K jeety hovy Sipahi"*?



Tumi toh dekhi purai gadha  nijer matri vashao bujho na. Sena dal here geleo soinikra hare na.


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## khair_ctg

bongbang said:


> Tumi toh dekhi purai gadha  nijer matri vashao bujho na. Sena dal here geleo soinikra hare na.


tao tumar Hinduized zobaner cheye beshi bhuji. besides these languages are similar


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## Irfan Hanif

khair_ctg said:


> the main challenge was for East Pakistan/Bangladesh to defend against Indian aggression that put an end to its 1947 framework and imposed in its place a foreign system that has no link to the struggles and political movement leading up to 1947 formation.
> 
> by the way what does this Punjabi saying mean "Haari Hoi Fauj K jeety hovy Sipahi"?


For this read the book 'Commando" by Tariq Ismail Sagar

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## MilSpec

Horus said:


> Please have some mercy and stop bothering us. We share no interest with you anymore except religion.


Taking off the first bit of your sentence, rest is the same poor bengali leaders heard from the western Pakistan, everytime they wanted equal share in the nations fortune....You guys bungled up quite bad in E.P, the travesty is the parties on whom the guilt lied went scott free......

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## khair_ctg

State facilities for Bangladesh war rape victims | Page 2


> @asad71 sir since you were there in 1971 and served armed forces, so can you plz give us the info regarding the validity of this claim that we have raped & killed thousands of people. Thanks!
> 
> @iajdani @kalu_miah @khair_ctg @BDforever @T-Rex @MBI Munshi @Khalid Newazi .....guys your input in this delicate issue will also be appreciated. Thanks!


@Pakistani shaheens

imo, such threads "State facilities for Bangladesh war rape victims" should not have been closed. anyways, because it was, i'm giving you my thoughts here.

one Bengali Abdul Qader Siddiqui who fought against West Pakistan in 1971, and even carried out some crimes of his own, admitted that such allegations from India-BAL are concocted lies. some commentators say lately he has been having a change of heart and is reassessing his role in 1971.

these claims of mass systematic rapes was joint RAW-Soviet Union propaganda and still is carried out. this propaganda is now coming from far-leftist people in BD. recently i saw they made a TV program focusing on a "1971 rape victim" and as usual, had zero credibility and clear political-ideological motives.

it is a personal attack on every individual Bangladeshi and Pakistani families that such misinformation is carried out by a few sick minded Indians. the current Pakistanis and very importantly, the Bangladeshis have to tackle this nonsense head on. the Bangladeshi, Pakistani and the sane-minded Indian media intelligentsia has to get involved.

the goal of Indian government was to harm United Pakistan in any way it could. part of that goal was influenced by pressure from Soviet Union on the Indira administration to do something to that effect. this led to a marriage with the far-leftists of East Pakistan, who had been perpetually against any form of Muslim nationalism even before 1947 and/or against Bengali Muslims getting independence from the socio-cultural sphere of Hindu-Brahmin Bengalis. the rogue Indian government and Bengali far-leftists did not want to let go of the opportunity to turn 70 million Pakistanis into Bangladeshis. 

and what's a better way than to make those Pakistanis think they were never "real" Pakistanis and the remaining Pakistanis are their rapists.

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## chaanmia

khair_ctg said:


> State facilities for Bangladesh war rape victims | Page 2
> 
> @Pakistani shaheens
> 
> imo, such threads "State facilities for Bangladesh war rape victims" should not have been closed. anyways, because it was, i'm giving you my thoughts here.
> 
> one Bengali Abdul Qader Siddiqui who fought against West Pakistan in 1971, and even carried out some crimes of his own, admitted that such allegations from India-BAL are concocted lies. some commentators say lately he has been having a change of heart and is reassessing his role in 1971.
> 
> these claims of mass systematic rapes was joint RAW-Soviet Union propaganda and still is carried out. this propaganda is now coming from far-leftist people in BD. recently i saw they made a TV program focusing on a "1971 rape victim" and as usual, had zero credibility and clear political-ideological motives.
> 
> it is a personal attack on every individual Bangladeshi and Pakistani families that such misinformation is carried out by a few sick minded Indians. the current Pakistanis and very importantly, the Bangladeshis have to tackle this nonsense head on. the Bangladeshi, Pakistani and the sane-minded Indian media intelligentsia has to get involved.
> 
> the goal of Indian government was to harm United Pakistan in any way it could. part of that goal was influenced by pressure from Soviet Union on the Indira administration to do something to that effect. this led to a marriage with the far-leftists of East Pakistan, who had been perpetually against any form of Muslim nationalism even before 1947 and/or against Bengali Muslims getting independence from the socio-cultural sphere of Hindu-Brahmin Bengalis. the rogue Indian government and Bengali far-leftists did not want to let go of the opportunity to turn 70 million Pakistanis into Bangladeshis.
> 
> and what's a better way than to make those Pakistanis think they were never "real" Pakistanis and the remaining Pakistanis are their rapists.



so do u mean westerners believed a soviet communist 'propaganda' at the height of cold war
ওরে কেউ আমারে ভোতা দাওয়ের হ্যান্ডেল দিয়া নৃশংসভাবে মাইরা লা


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## monitor

khair_ctg said:


> State facilities for Bangladesh war rape victims | Page 2
> 
> @Pakistani shaheens
> 
> imo, such threads "State facilities for Bangladesh war rape victims" should not have been closed. anyways, because it was, i'm giving you my thoughts here.
> 
> one Bengali Abdul Qader Siddiqui who fought against West Pakistan in 1971, and even carried out some crimes of his own, admitted that such allegations from India-BAL are concocted lies. some commentators say lately he has been having a change of heart and is reassessing his role in 1971.
> 
> these claims of mass systematic rapes was joint RAW-Soviet Union propaganda and still is carried out. this propaganda is now coming from far-leftist people in BD. recently i saw they made a TV program focusing on a "1971 rape victim" and as usual, had zero credibility and clear political-ideological motives.
> 
> it is a personal attack on every individual Bangladeshi and Pakistani families that such misinformation is carried out by a few sick minded Indians. the current Pakistanis and very importantly, the Bangladeshis have to tackle this nonsense head on. the Bangladeshi, Pakistani and the sane-minded Indian media intelligentsia has to get involved.
> 
> the goal of Indian government was to harm United Pakistan in any way it could. part of that goal was influenced by pressure from Soviet Union on the Indira administration to do something to that effect. this led to a marriage with the far-leftists of East Pakistan, who had been perpetually against any form of Muslim nationalism even before 1947 and/or against Bengali Muslims getting independence from the socio-cultural sphere of Hindu-Brahmin Bengalis. the rogue Indian government and Bengali far-leftists did not want to let go of the opportunity to turn 70 million Pakistanis into Bangladeshis.
> 
> and what's a better way than to make those Pakistanis think they were never "real" Pakistanis and the remaining Pakistanis are their rapists.





khair_ctg said:


> these claims of mass systematic rapes was joint RAW-Soviet Union propaganda and still is carried out. this propaganda is now coming from far-leftist people in BD. recently i saw they made a TV program focusing on a "1971 rape victim" and as usual, had zero credibility and clear political-ideological motives


i think some woman were raped but the number were exaggerated to show how brutal pakistanis are but this kind of thing is not unlikely in a war though obviously unaccepted and should punished who were responsible 

after 43 year later any facility for the victim is more than political agenda other then any real benifit to the victims , if i am not wrong after independence a support center were opened but could not attract any significant number victim latter it was filled with some whores.


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## Sine Nomine

monitor said:


> after 43 year later any facility for the victim is more than political agenda other then any real benifit to the victims , if i am not wrong after independence a support center were opened but could not attract any significant number victim latter it was filled with some whores.


Well sir agree with you Late Brig-Sadiq Salik even pointed that some cases were committed by soldiers in times when India were clearly supporting Muktis with Artillery fire,peoples were punished by death in this case but these cases were out of anger rather then communal hate or Lust...


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## asad71

The Agenda is / has been to keep ND estranged from Pakistan and Muslims. This however is not happening. People are getting more estranged with the Indians / Hindus.

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## Md Akmal

Bong said:


> Read Lahore resolution. We were supposed to create our separate country with our muslim people in the East. If Jinnah didnt differ.



@ *Bong*, you are still in *"Lahore Resolution" of 1940* ? Be practical, after the resolution there were many conspiracies, many sitting between the muslim leaders of Indian Sub-continent, many British Missions, Proposals and discussion took place and finally in 1947 June Indian Independence Act was passed by the British Parliament. Why you are blaming this poor Pakistani ? Why you are blaming Jinnah only ? In those days A K Fuzlul Huq and Hussain Shaheed Shurwardy was also powerful. Hussain Shaheed Shurwady in those days was the sitting Chief Minister of West Bengal.

@ You are arguing as because the illiterate graduate taught you about this Lahore Resolution of 1940 ?

@ And you are talking about separate state in 1947 ? My foot ! Have you not seen the fate of Hyderabad in 1948 ? And other Princely states of Indian-Sub-Continent ???????

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## khair_ctg

monitor said:


> i think some woman were raped but the number were exaggerated to show how brutal pakistanis are but this kind of thing is not unlikely in a war though obviously unaccepted and should punished who were responsible
> 
> after 43 year later any facility for the victim is more than political agenda other then any real benifit to the victims , if i am not wrong after independence a support center were opened but could not attract any significant number victim latter it was filled with some whores.


cases here and there may have existed, including ones perpetrated by Bengali, as well as in Hindu refugee camps along the border.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

قناص said:


> Well sir agree with you Late Brig-Sadiq Salik even pointed that some cases were committed by soldiers in times when India were clearly supporting Muktis with Artillery fire,peoples were punished by death in this case but these cases were out of anger rather then communal hate or Lust...


Not just arty they were directly involved in actions against Pakistani forces...

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## bongbang

Md Akmal said:


> @ *Bong*, you are still in *"Lahore Resolution" of 1940* ? Be practical, after the resolution there were many conspiracies, many sitting between the muslim leaders of Indian Sub-continent, many British Missions, Proposals and discussion took place and finally in 1947 June Indian Independence Act was passed by the British Parliament. Why you are blaming this poor Pakistani ? Why you are blaming Jinnah only ? In those days A K Fuzlul Huq and Hussain Shaheed Shurwardy was also powerful. Hussain Shaheed Shurwady in those days was the sitting Chief Minister of West Bengal.
> 
> @ You are arguing as because the illiterate graduate taught you about this Lahore Resolution of 1940 ?
> 
> @ And you are talking about separate state in 1947 ? My foot ! Have you not seen the fate of Hyderabad in 1948 ? And other Princely states of Indian-Sub-Continent ???????



We keep on talking anything which suites separate BD. We judge anything sitting on separate BD. That allows us to ignore some, allow some and some addition. Pakistan (united) was a mistake from our angle, sitting here in BD. Yes all the creators who made that united thing made mistake. Bangladesh should have created separately, which is proven by later consequences. Can you change this reality. As India had interests in two nation theory, so had Pakistan. Other than that 2 countries never could have a shape like today. If there was no 2 nation theory, instead multiple nation theory. Today Kashmir, Hyderabad, Baluchistan etc princely states fate could be different. Stop giving lame example of Hyderabad. It was annexed because of 2 nation theory. We were played by our west brothers to have their own country. BD could be created from the first day of 1947. Very much doubt if Pakistan could be created as of now without BD. When Pakistan was created using BD they started ignoring us by denying powers to Bengalis. Did everything possible to keep power in their hand with marshal law and at last ethnic army at the middle of night. So why should we associate us with them. And whenever we talk anything supporting separate BD, people like you, Luffy500 and khair ctg jump on to defend Pakistan. Have some shame.


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## Sine Nomine

bongbang said:


> We keep on talking anything which suites separate BD. We judge anything sitting on separate BD. That allows us to ignore some, allow some and some addition. Pakistan (united) was a mistake from our angle, sitting here in BD. Yes all the creators who made that united thing made mistake. Bangladesh should have created separately, which is proven by later consequences. Can you change this reality. As India had interests in two nation theory, so had Pakistan. Other than that 2 countries never could have a shape like today. If there was no 2 nation theory, instead multiple nation theory. Today Kashmir, Hyderabad, Baluchistan etc princely states fate could be different. Stop giving lame example of Hyderabad. It was annexed because of 2 nation theory. We were played by our west brothers to have their own country. BD could be created from the first day of 1947. Very much doubt if Pakistan could be created as of now without BD. When Pakistan was created using BD they started ignoring us by denying powers to Bengalis. Did everything possible to keep power in their hand martial law and at last ethnic army at the middle of night. So why should we associate us with them. And whenever we talk anything supporting separate BD, people like you, Luffy500 and khair ctg jump on to defend Pakistan. Have some shame.


Look around today all other states in SA are being controlled by NEW_DELHI,but only free and hostile is Pakistan and BSF after hitting one bullets gets enough back...


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## suresh1773

bongbang said:


> Today Kashmir, Hyderabad, Baluchistan etc princely states fate could be different. Stop giving lame example of Hyderabad. It was annexed because of 2 nation theory.


Which Hyderabad r u talking, I mean Deccan or Sindh




bongbang said:


> And whenever we talk anything supporting separate BD, people like you, Luffy500 and khair ctg jump on to defend Pakistan. Have some shame.


 Correctly said,both are hardcore Jammatis



Md Akmal said:


> Have you not seen the fate of Hyderabad in 1948 ? And other Princely states of Indian-Sub-Continent ???????


 I think u r referring to Hyderabad(Deccan),it had a population of 90% Hindus,secondly Hyderabad is surrounded by Bangalore, Tamil Nadu & Maharasthra,all r Hindu Majority areas. According to the Partition plan only Muslim majority areas would go to Pakistan only. there was a proposal to exchange Hyderabad & Junagadh with Kashmir which was rejected by Pakistan


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## Rajput_Pakistani

suresh1773 said:


> Which Hyderabad r u talking, I mean Deccan or Sindh
> 
> 
> Correctly said,both are hardcore Jammatis
> 
> I think u r referring to Hyderabad(Deccan),it had a population of 90% Hindus,secondly Hyderabad is surrounded by Bangalore, Tamil Nadu & Maharasthra,all r Hindu Majority areas. According to the Partition plan only Muslim majority areas would go to Pakistan only. there was a proposal to exchange Hyderabad & Junagadh with Kashmir which was rejected by Pakistan



Absolutely wrong on Hyderabad Daccan. As per partition plan, 590 (approx.) Princely states were given the right to choose either India, Pakistan or Independence. Out of these Hyderabad, Kashmir were the biggest and important states. Hyderabad choose to remain a separate country and remained that until 12 September, 1948. Indians occupied it that day. Junagarh and Manavadar states also choose to be part of Pakistan but forcefully annexed by India.

The irony in case of Hyderabad is that Indians stand was that 90% of Hindu population dont want independent country rather want to be part of India. But their ruler is making opposite decision, hence occupation is justified. 
In case of Kashmir, their stand was as Mahraja has signed a document of annexation with India, hence the aspirations of 80% muslim population of Kashmir has no value.

Totally contradictory stands..


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## suresh1773

Rajput_Pakistani said:


> Hyderabad choose to remain a separate country and remained that until 12 September, 1948. Indians occupied it that day. ..


U must understand like this,the Indian army invaded Hyderabad(Deccan) when some army officers(Razakars) from the Nizam's Army revolted & commited attrocities. Most of army officers of the Nizam were Muslims though Muslims were only 10%. Please read Wikipedia on this.
*Operation Polo*, the code name of the Hyderabad "Police Action"[2][3]was a military operation in September 1948 in which theIndian Armed Forces invaded theState of Hyderabad and overthrew its Nizam, annexing the state into the Indian Union. *Amidst atrocities by the Razakars, the Indian Home Minister Sardar Patel decided to annex Hyderabad[5] in what was termed a "police action"*. The operation itself took five days, in which the Razakars were defeated easily.[6]



Rajput_Pakistani said:


> Junagarh and Manavadar states also choose to be part of Pakistan but forcefully annexed by India..



Absolutley fasle & twisting of facts
First u understand, What was the purpose of Partition,Well Pakistan was meant to be a separate home land only for Muslims where they can have their own religions,culture. Junagarh and Manavada had more then 90% Hindu population,this negates the purpose of Partiton.
Some of the Text taken from wikipedia
the Government of India was outraged that Muhammad Ali Jinnah could accept the accession of Junagadh despite his argument that Hindus and Muslims could not live as one nation. A plebiscite was conducted in Junagadh in December, in which approximately 99% of the people chose India over Pakistan.[3]

I cannot still understand why did Jinnah refuse to exchange Kashmir with Hyderabad. In the worlds of Liaquat ali Khan,"I am not a fool to exchange a few hill hills with the vast plains of Hyderabd(Deccan)which is more then the size of Punjab"
.


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## Rajput_Pakistani

suresh1773 said:


> U must understand like this,the Indian army invaded Hyderabad(Deccan) when some army officers(Razakars) from the Nizam's Army revolted & commited attrocities. Most of army officers of the Nizam were Muslims though Muslims were only 10%. Please read Wikipedia on this.
> *Operation Polo*, the code name of the Hyderabad "Police Action"[2][3]was a military operation in September 1948 in which theIndian Armed Forces invaded theState of Hyderabad and overthrew its Nizam, annexing the state into the Indian Union. *Amidst atrocities by the Razakars, the Indian Home Minister Sardar Patel decided to annex Hyderabad[5] in what was termed a "police action"*. The operation itself took five days, in which the Razakars were defeated easily.[6]
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutley fasle & twisting of facts
> First u understand, What was the purpose of Partition,Well Pakistan was meant to be a separate home land only for Muslims where they can have their own religions,culture. Junagarh and Manavada had more then 90% Hindu population,this negates the purpose of Partiton.
> Some of the Text taken from wikipedia
> the Government of India was outraged that Muhammad Ali Jinnah could accept the accession of Junagadh despite his argument that Hindus and Muslims could not live as one nation. A plebiscite was conducted in Junagadh in December, in which approximately 99% of the people chose India over Pakistan.[3]
> 
> I cannot still understand why did Jinnah refuse to exchange Kashmir with Hyderabad. In the worlds of Liaquat ali Khan,"I am not a fool to exchange a few hill hills with the vast plains of Hyderabd(Deccan)which is more then the size of Punjab"
> .


You are quoting me Wikipedia??
Can you please provide any credible source of what are you saying?
I understand, but do you understand what i said in my post? If Pakistan was created for Muslims, then why did your Army entered Kashmir in first place?
Whatever happened in Hyderabad, what was Indian government moral authority to interfere in matters of an independent state?

I advice you to read 3rd june 1947 partition plan document.

Kindly no Ullo banavin please...


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## Bilal9

We're veering off into OT topics here - just a heads up...


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## Saiful Islam

Can anybody tell me Joy Bangla chant replaced the former Bangladesh Zindabad?


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## monitor

Saiful Islam said:


> Can anybody tell me Joy Bangla chant replaced the former Bangladesh Zindabad?



I am not sure but probably as common slogan of Pakistan were Pakistan Zindabad which sound more Urdu/Pakistan centric so as counter Benglai nationalist chant Joy Bangla literally means victory for Bangla .


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## Saiful Islam

monitor said:


> I am not sure but probably as common slogan of Pakistan were Pakistan Zindabad which sound more Urdu/Pakistan centric so as counter Benglai nationalist chant Joy Bangla literally means victory for Bangla .



So is 'Joy' a variant of Jai?


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## Bilal9

Saiful Islam said:


> So is 'Joy' a variant of Jai?



Correct 

I find slogans (whether Hindu or Muslim) an emotional way to corral people. Going to work at a low-wage job and eating at the end-of-the-day is still better than get involved in tire-burning or slogans...which are largely useless to make a livelihood.


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## Saiful Islam

Bilal9 said:


> Correct
> 
> I find slogans (whether Hindu or Muslim) an emotional way to corral people. Going to work at a low-wage job and eating at the end-of-the-day is still better than get involved in tire-burning or slogans...which are largely useless to make a livelihood.



I understand but I wanted to know why it changed from Bangladesh Zindabad to Joy Bangla? I can remember saying Zindabad long time ago but now I'm confused to whether it is Zindabad or Joy Bangla. Its a trivial matter but it annoys and frustrates me


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## bongbang

Saiful Islam said:


> I understand but I wanted to know why it changed from Bangladesh Zindabad to Joy Bangla? I can remember saying Zindabad long time ago but now I'm confused to whether it is Zindabad or Joy Bangla. Its a trivial matter but it annoys and frustrates me



Joy Bangla came first in pakistan time. SM used it in speeches before creation of Bangladesh. Popular AL slogan freedom fighters also used it in their oath. Zia later introduced Bangladesh zindabad.

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## asad71

bongbang said:


> Joy Bangla came first in pakistan time. SM used it in speeches before creation of Bangladesh. Popular AL slogan freedom fighters also used it in their oath. Zia later introduced Bangladesh zindabad.


Jai Hind of Netaji/INA during WW II.Jiye Sind of GM Syed just after Partition. BD Zindabad was first uttered by Maj Dalim while announcing the death of SM in the coup.Mushtaq,Zia, Ershad and BNP/BKZ continued this. In fact Joy Bangla is not used by anyone except BAL.Somehow people have not accepted this slogan finding Zindabad closer to the heart.

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## Bilal9

Somehow BAL-er Chetona and Joy Bangla go together


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## asad71

http://www.thedailys...rave-sons-72778 FREEDOM IN THE OFFING Can a self respecting nation treat its brave sons like this? _Here we publish a speech given by Major General M. A. Manzoor, Bir Uttam, at a seminar organised by Bangla Academy. It was published in Sangbad on March 26, 1977. Major General Manzoor was the Sector Commander of Sector 8 during the Liberation War. _

M. A. Manzoor, Bir Uttam





Major General M. A. Manzoor (1940-1981)
THIS is my first opportunity to speak to an audience after our Independence. I convey my sincere thanks to Bangla Academy for affording me this opportunity. First my deep respects to those brothers and sisters whose blood has created the opportunity for this discussion. Many learned persons have commented on the Liberation War -- I don't have the ability to make such erudite comments. I will, as a soldier, present my own views on the Liberation War as I have understood it. 

The background of our freedom struggle was written long in the past when our predecessors realised that there was a need to live in this land as a separate national entity. For ages the people of this land had been enslaved. The Bengalis had never been free in the real sense or had never participated in the task of determining their own destiny. But we had always dreamt to break free from this environment and shape our own society, culture and economy in a free atmosphere. At times our nationalist urge had caused severe tremors. The Fakir-Sanyasi revolt, the peasant revolt, the Wahhabi and Faraizi movements and the revolt against indigo farming were manifestations of our nationalist feelings. But we succumbed every time due to lack of unity, and in the face of rapacious rulers our dreams failed to materialise. But somewhere during a phase in that struggle, when the colonisers were evicted from the subcontinent, our hearts were filled with delight. We dreamed of a glorious free nation. But we awoke to a rude shock. A hard truth dawned that the newly found independence was only a phase in the quest for real independence; then started another struggle. A new start was launched with the Language Movement of 1952. Thus, every time in celebrating February 21 we celebrate the first step of our revolutionary nationalist awakening. 1971 was the armed phase of the glorious struggle when the people of this country took up arms. An amazing unity not seen before, a determination to struggle unto death and a mood of nationalism was created. There is not another example in the subcontinent of a collective resolve to sacrifice everything for independence. Except for a handful of selfish and misguided people the entire mass of the people had lent their support for independence. And only this unity and people's support made independence possible. Everywhere in this land, in the towns and villages, we received spontaneous and unstinted help of the people. Without this support it would have been difficult for us to survive, much less gain independence. It is true that we have gained independence but our struggle is not over yet. If we had retained the same unity and sense of dedication of the days of 1971 then we would not have faced difficulty in enjoying the fruits of independence; we would have progressed much in the task of nation building. 

Many people have said and written many things about the Liberation War of 1971. Many have made profits out of publishing colourful books with attractive covers. But how many of them have written about the brave son, printed the face of the young boy aged 16 of a small village who bade farewell to his mother vowing to liberate the country and in keeping that vow never returned to the embrace of his mother. Where is the account of the brave deeds of the brave soldiers of the Bengal Regiment or the East Pakistan Rifles? Of those who were decorated with Bir Shrestho for their bravery? Were their sacrifices any less significant than the death of a few intellectuals and politicians? Our real history is in the tale of the valour and sacrifices of thousands of youths, thousands of common men. We have to write that history which will be an inspiration for the future generation.

It is not possible for me to lay out the details of the events of the War of Liberation. But I would like to narrate a few incidents that are examples of incredible patriotism of the common man. We were stuck on the banks of the Madhumati since December 8. On the other side was enemy's strong defence. It was necessary to gain information about the strength and deployment of the enemy; came forward two young men. In the course of their effort to gather intelligence they were caught. One was killed and the other returned with severe wounds on his throat. That incredibly brave young man also died but not before giving us the details of the enemy by writing and drawing sketches. 

On another occasion in another battlefield in Satkhira one of our companies was encircled by the enemy. It was not being possible to provide them ammunitions and logistics. Even experienced soldiers were not willing to risk their lives to reach them. At that time 5 or 6 young boys came forward -- they were between 12 and 16. In the cover of the night risking their lives they continued to supply the company with replenishment. But one of them was killed by the enemy during their third foray. When his comrades returned with the tiding of his death his mother broke down in a heartrending cry. I went up to console her but returned in silence. An old woman had sheltered a group of freedom fighters one night and cooked meal for them; even gave them some molasses and puffed rice for the road. But next day the occupation forces burned down her hut, the only possession she had, for this offense. She did not repent her action nor did she demand compensation for her loss from the government. *These small deeds of bravery are actually the real stories of our independence. But we witnessed a very dangerous picture after the country was liberated, a wicked attempt to fulfill personal lust.* And in this lust were lost the expectations and the spirit of the Liberation War. Attempts were made to distort history. Thus we lost a grand opportunity to take our country forward towards development and progress. Had we utilised that opportunity we would not have to face the situation that we are facing now. In the post-liberation phase the collective strength of the freedom fighters could have been employed for the development of the country. By making the most of the enthusiasm and the aim for which they had participated in the war we could have started a new chapter. But that very strength was misused for political gains. As a result, most of the freedom fighters went astray. Instead of the gratefulness and good wishes of the nation they were given an insignificant certificate. Having deposited their weapons after the war they then went around seeking jobs and favours displaying that certificate. The freedom fighters were insulted and the spirit of the War of Liberation was denigrated. Acts of some of the misguided youth gave immense pleasure to those evil forces that had opposed the war. Can a self respecting nation treat its brave sons like this? 

*There is constant effort to attack our independence and sovereignty. Some individuals and groups, in order to hide their misdeeds and at the behest of external forces, are putting impediments to our freedom. At a time when it is essential to forge unity there is constant attempt to create a divide. These misguided people should be identified and made to shun the wrong path. This is our collective responsibility. If need be, and for the greater interest and for the sake of further strengthening our unity, they should be destroyed from the root. Just as we are facing direct assault on our freedom, there is an indirect attempt to distort our nationalism by misinterpreting religion on one hand and on the pretext of cultural liberalism on the other. Our religious, cultural and social practices are well established and self sufficient -- there is no need for fanaticism, no need to import distorted culture from outside. What is needed now is full utilisation and development of whatever we have. The people mostly live in rural areas. And it is their economic development that should be our first priority. And all our efforts should be to develop the rural economy. *

*Source: Bangladesh: Muktijuddher Bhugol o Itihas, Edited by Sukumar Biswas , Agami Prokashoni, May 1996.*


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## asad71

Manzur,then BM in a Bde at Sialkot, Taher from SSG Cherat and Ziauddin then serving in the MS Branch, had grouped together to escape from Manzur's AOO. On arrival they were taken for a meeting with Indira Gandhi. Manzur was considered an outstanding officer in PA. Only after speaking with them was Indira convinced that the Liberation Forces were worth supporting. Prior to this Indira was unsure because of the doubtful resolve and poor quality of political leadership that she had met.


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## asad71

Freedom In The Offing 'Enemy morale is deteriorating very fast' _Here we publish Major Khaled Musharrof's confidential letter dispatched to Colonel Osmani in August 1971. During the Liberation War, Major Musharrof was Sector Commander of Sector-2._





Major Khaled Musharrof Sector Commander of Bangladesh Mukti Bahini (Sector-2) and K-Force Brigade Commander during the Liberation War of Bangladesh (1971). Photo: Marilyn Silverstone

Major Khaled Musharrof, psc. 
HQ No. 2 Sector 
Bangladesh Forces 
No. BD/0022/G
*August 1971 *

*Colonel M A G Osmani, awc., psc. *
Commander-in-Chief
Bangladesh Forces

*Dear Chief*

Since our last meeting, the over all situation in my sector and around has had few significant developments which I understand should be brought to your kind notice. I may take the opportunity to put on record the effect of the brave activities by the boys of Bangladesh Liberation Forces in my Sector.

a. The communication line, both rail and road running from Comilla to Chittagong (upto Feni) had been totally disrupted, the communication between Dacca and Chittagong is being harassed and disrupted as we find necessary and according to our convenience.



b. Activities has been stretched much inside Bangladesh all along the Sector. It is reported that the Pak regime has started a general evacuation from Comilla to Chandina.

c. Bases much inside the district zones of the sector has been set up and new bases are in the process of being exploited and formed continuously.

d. Power carrying pylons and transformers in different Sub stations in Dacca have been destroyed in such an extent as to reduce the power supply by 75%. The need for power in Dacca is very less because of the closure of Mills and little population that are there, effect is not yet fully apparent and felt.

e. Enemy morale is deteriorating very fast.

f. Re-organization of the 'Mukti Bahini' has been carried out to meet the present and future demand of our war efforts, specialists are being trained by our own effort in the Sector in co-ordination with the supporting army.

g. Boys have been trained to take over the charge of the 3.7 inch mountain guns and 10 August has been fixed as the inauguration date. I have named it as 'Mujib Battery', being the first Artillery Battery in the Bangladesh Army. I have provided already two Officers and the battery will be fully operational on the 10th August 71 manned by our crews and Officers.

It may be seen that no stone is left unturned as to bring my Sector 100 percent efficiency so that the war effort according to the plan can be carried out keeping the high tradition set by their past performance.

I may take this opportunity to point out that as the activities in the Sector to the south of mine (Chittagong) is plagued by insensitivity and bad handling of the war effort in the past, the burden on my Sector has been too much. Unless this Sector is activated the situation may go to the advantage of the enemy and we may find it hard to keep the balance.

It has been reported that in that Sector (Chittagong) besides general inefficiency in the past, corruption by the troops and illtreatment towards local tribal population had also been rampant. All these has brought an effect on the general morale of the 'Mukti Bahini' and the local population. In this general mess, the extremists have also dug in their position. Unless it is checked right now the situation may prove very difficult in future. Internal dissentions has also crept in because of the bad handling in the past.

Captain Rafique who is a very sincere and brave Officer is finding it hard to tackle. Some time in the past you wanted to know whether it would be possible on my part to take over Chittagong as well. As I had been busy in getting my Sector on the grip, I reluctantly declined in that circumstances. Now I may very humbly put forward to your gracious self that Chittagong may also be brought within my zone for operation (…) to sort the things out. It will also enable to chalk out a comprehensive plan or effective interdiction of enemy from Chittagong to Comilla.

Due to the famine condition and inflation of money prevailing in Bangladesh, guerilla warfare operation inside Bangladesh is very expensive. Unless operation money is given regularly and as per your policy, it will be quite difficult to conduct the aforesaid operations effectively. I may here mention that the supporting agency over here, has not got any specific instruction.

The supply of arms still remains inadequate. The scale of arms to be provided to guerillas as laid down by you is not adhered to by the supporting agency. As a result, guerillas are still being armed with only two sten per 10. I am afraid to say that it is frightfully inadequate for the boys to start the effective operation inside. It is suggested that the supporting agencies must be persuaded to implement your policy of scale of arms laid down for the guerilla.

I was also shown a organization prepared by the supporting agency where only 37 IMGs are authorized to a battalion whereas the organisation prepared by you authorises 72 INGs. I have already pointed out to them, but it seems that matter has been decided by the higher authorities of supporting units as such you may please take up at your end.

The families of 'Mukti Bahini' and the 'Freedom Fighters' those who have attained Shahadat or have been incapacitated due to enemy action are facing untold miseries as the Government of the Peoples' Republic of Bangladesh has not yet granted any gratuity etc to them. To boost up the morale of the liberation army and at the same time to save the unfortunate families from total ruination, I think some monetary assistance must be given to the bereaved families immediately. It is also suggested that some fund may please be placed at the disposal of Sector Commander, so that adhoc relief can be given till the case is decided on merit.

The Police personnels who crossed over to India are not properly utilized and the SP appointed by the Peoples' Republic of Bangladesh seems to be quite inactive and indifferent about the fruitful use of the Police. May I have the honour to suggest that these Police forces, with proper co-ordination/consultation with the Government of India may be posted in different entry points in the border belt to check the suspected persons coming in/going out of India in collaboration with the Sector Commandoes and Indian Police.

I have received a posting order issued from Bangladesh Forces vide 1121/A or 31 July 71 asking me to provide 4 Officers from my Sector. You are well aware that following Officers were posted out/being posted out of my Sector recently:-

a. Major Shafaat Jamil - 3 E Bengal

b. Major Mohd Amin - 8 E Bengal

c. Capt Amin Ahmed Chowdhury - Mymensingh Sector

d. Capt Mahboobur Rahman Chy - 1 E Bengal

e. Capt Shahid Ullah Bhuiyan - HQ Bangladesh Forces

f. Capt Akbar Hussain - 3 North Bengal

g. Capt Mujibur Rahman - Being posted to Brigade HQ which is ordered vide BDF No. 1121/A of 31 July 71.

h. Cap Abdus Salek Chowdhury, as per your instruction is being posted out as Sect Commander

Moreover, I have raised the first Artillery Battery (The Mujib Battery) out of my own resources and provided both men and two Officers out of this Sector. As a result, I am left with bare min Officers without which there will be total dis-orgnazation in the Sector specially when I am operating in four vital districts and main Line of Communication. You would be kind to appreciate that if any more Officers are posted out of my humble compliments, I would be constrained to say that this Sector would bound to be ineffective which is of no ones desire. It may be also recalled that you have promised during my last visit that no more Officer will be posted out from my Sector.

In your last DO, you mentioned that boys operating in Dacca are not really effective. Now after hearing the BBC and other foreign radios about our activities in and around Dacca, you must be convinced that we are not only producing bang but we are really effective. Any way, open fighting in the heart of Dacca by our boys deserves appreciation from your side which definitely will boost up the morale.

Our boys have been also closing in with enemy and fighting hand to hand battles in different encounter and producing wonderful result which also calls for your appreciation. Recently some of the actions were under taken to clear enemy positions and to test the battle worthless of regular boys who have proved real "Tigers" by fighting over the dead bodies of the enemy and flushing out the barbarous enemy from the bunkers.

Different agencies/organisations are sending boys inside Bangladesh without any co-ordination/consultation which have already created lot of confusion and misunderstanding and has given chance to the enemy to run wedge between us. It is requested that launching of troops inside Bangladesh must be done after co-ordination with the Sector Commanders to avert any mishap.

I am confident that you would give your personal attention to the problems that I have posed in my DO at your convenience to enhance the war efforts and redress my difficulties.

Eagerly looking forward to see you amongst us soon. May God walk with you. "Joy Bangla".



*With kindest regards.*



Yours

*Major Khaled Musharrof*




*Source: Muktijuddhe 2 Number Sector ebong K Force written by Khaled Musharrof published by Prothoma Prokashon in 2013. *


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## asad71

* INDEPENDENCE DAY SPECIAL 2015 *
* The Tangail Landings: A signal for victory *
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Dr. Nuran Nabi (extreme right)

Dr. Nuran Nabi
I travelled to Tura, the capital of Meghalaya, three times during the war as a representative of Tangail Mukti Bahini to bring arms and ammunitions. Brigadier Sanat Singh was my contact and host. He arranged my meetings with Gen Gill and Brigadier Klair during my first and second visit in June and July, respectively. During my third visit, I had the honour to meet Lt. Gen. Aurora, the GOC of the Eastern Command of the Indian Army, at the office of Gen Gill in Tura on November 7th. 
In the meeting, Gen Aurora indicated that Indian paratroopers could be dropped in Tangail by the end of November or early December. He asked me to return to Tangail as soon as possible and make arrangements to secure an area so that Indian paratroopers could land safely. He also disclosed that several officers of the Indian Army would come to the liberated zones in Tangail and stay with us. We would be responsible for their security. 
At the end of the meeting, General Aurora warned me that under no circumstance, should I share this information with anyone other than Kader Siddiqui. He further mentioned that I was the first Bangladeshi person privy to the details of this top secret military operation. He reminded me repeatedly of the importance of this message and asked me to comply accordingly. 
As we shook hands to say goodbye, General Aurora mentioned, “This is the Liberation War of your motherland. I am certain you will be able to make good on your promise to your country. I hope to see you in Tangail.” 
I evaluated my meeting with Gen Aurora as a signal for our impending victory.
Accordingly, an Indian officer crossed the border and arrived in Tangail. He was perhaps the first Indian Army officer to infiltrate more than one hundred miles into the Bangladesh free zone before the war started. I met him on 3 December in Baroiotol, a village on the Dhaleshwari River near Bhuapur. He introduced himself as Peter and we exchanged passwords. I came to know that he was a Captain in the Indian Army and that he was a Bengali from Kolkata. He had arrived in the free zone just a night earlier, escorted by five freedom fighters, three of whom were trained wireless set operators. His mission was to contact Kader (Tiger) Siddiqui and select the strategic locations for the landing of the Indian paratroopers. All relevant information was to be sent back to his controlling headquarter. 
The next morning, Kader left to oversee the massive preparation for the impending attacks. On December 7, Peter and I left the boat and camped by the side of Nikrail School. Kader showed up in our camp. He formally put me in charge of communication regarding all subsequent attacks and placed one hundred fifty freedom fighters under my command. My job was to coordinate communication among the different companies, to maintain constant contact with Kader, and to help Peter in his work. Kader's presence and the news of India's recognition of Bangladesh created a feverish excitement amongst the people. After the evening prayers, thousands of people assembled at the school ground. Kader gave a passionate speech. 
Captain Peter was deeply impressed by the large turnout, and the support and enthusiasm of the population. We left Nikrail to move towards Ghatail. We reached West of Ghatail by early morning on December 9 and set up a temporary camp at the house of Abdul Halim Chowdhury. With Madhupur captured, the road for the Indian Army to move from Jamalpur to Tangail was clear and Captain Peter relayed this information to his command.
On the morning of December 10, Brigadier Kader Khan's troops, after their defeat at Jamalpur and Mymensingh, were fleeing towards Dhaka. 
That afternoon (December 11), Peter received a coded message from his headquarters and burst into joy. He told me that the paratroopers would be landing shortly. I, then, sent a message to Kader which simply said, “They are coming,” alerting the commanders of the area. 
At five in the afternoon, two Indian Air Force MiGs flew very low over Ghatail and Kalihati. 
We did not know which dropping area they would choose as the MiGs circled a very wide area. Then we saw the cargo planes, flying above the circling MiGs. Suddenly, the two MiGs shot up towards the stratosphere as the cargo planes slowly descended. They were Indian Air Force transport planes, AN-12, C-119, and CD-3. The planes descended in waves. As they approached their lowest point of descent, they came to a slow hover. It was as if they were floating in the air. Suddenly their bellies opened and parachutes began dropping.
The southeastern sky, as far as we could see, was covered with what looked like big balloons. On a sunny and breezy afternoon, the blue sky of Tangail was brilliantly recomposed with a spectacular view created by the paratroopers. For those who were lucky enough to watch, it was an unforgettable moment.
At eight in the evening, Kader stopped by our camp. He reassured Peter that the landing was successful and that the paratroopers had made contact with the Mukti Bahini. Kader told us that the highways connecting Madhupur, Gopalpur, Kalihati, and Sholakura were now all under the full control of the Mukti Bahini. The fleeing Pakistani soldiers had been attacked from various positions on the Tangail-Madhupur Highway. About twenty vehicles of the Pakistan Army had been destroyed and more than fifty soldiers had been killed. The Mukti Bahini had been able to capture a number of vehicles as well as a huge quantity of arms and explosives.
At five in the morning, Kader headed out with his troops to Tangail along the Mymensingh-Tangail Highway. Peter and I were also with him. We were welcomed at the liberated Kalihati headquarters by Commanders Nabi Newaz, Riaz, and Samad Gama. They reported that their forces were in full control of the Kalihati Police Station and that Tangail Highway was in our control as far south as Sholakura. 
We then moved to Sholakura but were halted at the Sholakura Bridge by enemy fire. At this time, several volunteers arrived escorting a contingent of paratroopers. Behind the force of last night's gusty winds, these paratroopers drifted away from their targeted position and thus they could not join in the battle fought the previous night. Captain Peter was delighted to meet his colleagues, amongst whom was a young Captain. 
Captain Peter then left us and joined up with the paratroopers and we resumed our advance to Phultala. Kader attacked Phultala with mortars and then sent about 300 fighters to take the village. By afternoon, the enemy fled and Phultala came under our control. 
We learnt through radio contact that Brigadier Klair of the Indian Army was on his way to Tangail. I, with a team of freedom fighters, left for Pungli Bridge to meet the Indian paratroopers. As we walked on the road to Pungli Bridge, I came face to face with the bone-chilling scenes of last night's battle. Corpses of hundreds of enemy soldiers littered the road; the bodies sprawled from one side of the bridge to the other. We walked with care so as not to step on the dead. All around was a mass of twisted mangled bodies and body parts. Never in my life had I seen so much death in one place. 
It was about three in the afternoon. When Brigadier Klair and Kader Siddiqui stepped down, five hundred freedom fighters and paratroopers received them with thundering applause. 
Brigadier Klair came over to me and thanked me for the help and cooperation extended by the Mukti Bahini. 
From the Indian officers I learnt that in the battle around Pungli Bridge, three hundred-seventy Pakistan soldiers were killed and more than one hundred injured. Six Indian paratroopers achieved martyrdom and 15 were injured. Over 600 Pakistani troops were taken prisoner. 
After the meeting, Kader and Klair decided to move on to Tangail that same evening. Most of the town of Tangail was in the hands of the Mukti Bahini. However, a small contingent of Pakistani forces at the new Tangail town garrison had not yet surrendered though it was cut off from all sides. An attack was launched at four o'clock that evening with about 200 Freedom Fighters, supported by mortar and machine gun fire. Very soon, the enemy guns were silenced and the last remnants of resistance at Tangail ceased. 
By that evening, the whole town stood liberated. By now, tens of thousands of people had begun assembling around the Awami League premises to see Kader and to celebrate our victory. Brigadier Klair then came over to join in the celebrations.
This for me was the last major action of the war. The Pakistan army was on the run and its eventual defeat was now simply a matter of time.
Reflecting on the War, I think Captain Peter's infiltration deep inside the enemy territory reveals a well thought out deception plan that has not been fully appreciated by analysts. 
As Indian forces were not concentrated here, the Pakistani leadership presumed that no major attack was envisaged by the Indian Army through this sector and so an elderly Pakistani officer, Brigadier Kader Khan was left in charge. In my view, this was an intentional move by General Aurora to mislead the enemy into thinking that the Indian Army advance into Dhaka would take place through the Comilla border. 
Meanwhile, on December 11th, General Jacob, the Chief of Staff of the Indian Army, arranged a press conference in Calcutta. He declared to the national and international press that the night before, Indian paratroopers had landed surrounding Dhaka city. He claimed that Dhaka was then a besieged city, waiting to fall any day. 
On the insistence of reporters, General Jacob reluctantly disclosed that a division of joint forces had surrounded Dhaka city.
However, in reality, the division he referred to was actually only single battalion of paratroopers who had landed, not in Dhaka, but rather some seventy miles to the north, in Tangail district.
Pakistani command was distressed by this bluff. It created a tremendous amount of psychological pressure on General Niazi to surrender. The joint force strategy worked just as planned.
This Para drop at Tangail caught the Pakistani leadership on the wrong foot and hastened the end of the war. For Brigadier Khan, this was the second surrender of his military carrier. During our interrogation, we came to know that he had also surrendered to the Indian Army on the West Pakistan border during the India-Pakistan War of 1965.
The inclusion of the Tangail Mukti Bahini in the original war strategy to conquer Dhaka was an important historical event. One of the most significant components to this plan was the landing of a battalion of paratroopers in Tangail. 
Arguably, I was the first person in Bangladesh to have had the privilege of knowing this vital secret plan.
I was lucky and honoured to be associated with such a clever war strategy. It was also a great testament to Kader as well as to the Tangail Mukti Bahini.
......................................................................
The writer is a Freedom Fighter and scientist.

* INDEPENDENCE DAY SPECIAL 2015 *
* Naval Commandos in Operation Jackpot *
* Submariner talks about the first military response from France *
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Commodore Abdul Wahed Chowdhury, Photo: Sk Enamul Haq

*Commodore Abdul Wahed Chowdhury, BU BB s/m (G) psc (rtd) of the Bangladesh Navy is one of the highest gallantry awardees living. Commodore Chowdhury was the Chief of Operation Jackpot, a Naval CNaval Commandos in Operation Jackpotommando Operation that attacked and sank ships at Chittagong port by the Karanafuli River on August 15, 1971. Beginning his career as a submariner in PNS Gazi in 1964, he later served in Bangladesh Navy holding many important positions including the Director of Naval Intelligence and a member of the National Committee. He won many national and international awards during the service. In an exclusive interview, Commodore Chowdhury talks to Amitava Kar of The Daily Star about the Liberation War and the success of Operation Jackpot.*

*The Daily Star (TDS): Please describe to us the circumstances under which the Naval Commando Force was formed. 
Commodore AW Chowdhury (AWC): *In March 1971, I was in France serving as a submariner in PNS Mangro, a Daphné-class submarine. We had a total crew of 45 -- 13 of them Bangalis and the rest, Pakistanis. The 7th March speech of Bangabandhu deeply moved us. The crackdown of 25th March changed everything. How could they run innocent people over with tanks? I made up my mind. I would join the Liberation War and persuade the other Bangalis on board to join me. We would leave the submarine without telling our Pakistani colleagues because from their point of view it would be nothing but mutiny. We were the first military personnel who responded to the call of liberation from abroad (France) on March 29, 1971. 

*TDS: How did you manage to communicate with them under tight scrutiny? 
AWC:* I did not talk to anyone about this on the submarine. It was only when we came to our shore accommodation that I informed them—one person at a time so that there would be no witness. I was in charge of the safe where all confidential documents and passports were kept. I took out all 45 passports and put them in the cupboard in my room on the shore. If I took out only the 13 passports belonging to the Bangali submariners, it would raise a red flag. Finally, out of the 13 Bangalis, only 8 joined us. 




* Video*
*Naval Commandos in Operation Jackpot*
Submariner talks about the first military response from France. Commodore Abdul Wahed Chowdhury, BU BB s/m (G) psc (rtd) of the Bangladesh Navy is one of the highest gallantry awardees living.

*TDS: How did you plan to join the war?
AWC:* The plan was to cross the French border and go to Geneva. We wanted to reach India, go close to the border of Bangladesh and join the Liberation War as soon as possible. A friend, a South African submariner, told me that Switzerland was a neutral country and we could apply for political asylum in Geneva. France was likely to support Pakistan because the Pakistani government had purchased the submarine from France. 

*TDS: Did everything go according to plan? 
AWC:* I purchased train tickets for all of them. We left Toulon one by one or in a group of two, leaving the rest of the passports in my cupboard. But when we tried to enter Switzerland we were told that we needed a visa to enter. We did not want to seem suspicious. So I talked to the lady at the immigration in French and told her that we would go back to Paris and come back with our visas. 

*TDS: What did you do next? 
AWC:* We boarded a train to Paris and got down in Lyon. I found out that we could enter Spain without a visa. Next morning we were on a train to Barcelona. We contacted the Indian Consulate in Barcelona immediately. They sent us to Madrid and the approval for our political asylum in India came through in 10 minutes. We would go to Rome and from there we would catch a flight to India in an Indian Airliner which was coming from New York. But it got delayed in New York due to a labour strike. While disembarking in Rome, we saw a lot of journalists and cameramen waiting for us. Once we were on board, Mr. Sri Bedi, Charges de Affairs of the Indian High Commission, had told the press about our defection. 

*TDS: Did you get in trouble because of this? 
AWC:* The Pakistan embassy officials got the news and came rushing to snatch us away. But we said, “Look, we were born afresh on March 26. We are going to fight for our country.” So instead of waiting for 10 hours in Rome, in the duration of which a lot of things could have gone wrong (Italy had a good relationship with Pakistan), we went to Geneva. Within an hour, we were on a flight to Bombay. When we arrived at Bombay we were taken to Delhi and put in different safe locations. It was decided that the 8 of us were going to become Naval Commandos. 



ADVERTISEMENT
*TDS: Please tell us about Operation Jackpot. 
AWC:* There were two routes for the Pakistanis to reach Bangladesh. One was by air and it was blocked by India. The other was the sea which the Pakistanis were using to send logistical support to their soldiers in Bangladesh. The Bangladesh forces under General Osmani and the Indian authorities jointly decided to block this route to cut off their supply line. We did not have a navy or any ships. We, the 8 commandos, were going to do it. Under our leadership we trained about 500 brave young men. On 21st May the camp began at Palashi by the Bhagirathi River in Nadiya district. We rigorously trained for 18 hours a day for three months. 

*TDS: What impact did Operation Jackpot have on the Liberation War?
AWC:* The commando operation was unique with a 100 percent success rate. It broke the lifeline of the Pakistanis in totality and they had no option but to surrender soon. We planned to destroy four places—Chittagong, Mongla, Chandpur and Narayanganj. Chittagong was the most important. I was the Chief of Operation Jackpot in Chittagong with 60 commandos under my command. The mission was to sink ships by using Limpet mines and block the channel. We attacked each ship with 3 commandos. It was practically a suicidal mission. Dr. Shah Alam BU was my deputy commander. They were all courageous commandos. The assistance of local associates was also great. 
We attacked 11 ships on the 14th August night after midnight, demolishing 9 ships. Chittagong port was declared nonoperational for international shipping. We did it with zero casualties. Subsequently, Operation Jackpot sank 45 ships in Bangladesh -- in Chittagong, Mongla, Chandpur and Narayanganj. We bowled them out. 

*TDS: What's your message going forward? 
AWC:* Today, I want to say we have no enemy. How can we be an enemy to each other? Are we not all Bangladeshis? Let us build this country together, look after the little ones with love and affection. Bangladesh is the most beautiful country in the world and her people are the best. Liberation War comes once in a lifetime. I am proud that I could avail the opportunity and to some extent prove my leadership in the crisis of Bangladesh during the Liberation War. Will prove it again if need be.

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## asad71

* INDEPENDENCE DAY SPECIAL 2015 *
* My reflections on this day *
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Mohammad Kibria, Memories of 1971, Courtesy: Depart

Shamsuddin Ahmed
I was a Major serving on secondment from the Pakistan Army in the then East Pakistan Rifles (EPR) in the Chittagong Sector when the War of Liberation broke out. I was commander of an EPR Wing (now a Battalion in BGB). On that fateful day, March 26 1971, I was on a tour of inspection of the Border Outposts (BOPs) of my wing on the Ramgar-Khagrachari border along the Feni River. It was past midnight when I woke up amid shouts of Joy Bangla and Joy Bangabandhu by the troops of the BOP wher eI was staying over that night. The troops had clearly risen in revolt against Pakistan. They had tied up two non-Bangali troops of the BOP and were about to kill them had I not intervened, while the third one had managed to swim across the Feni River to safety in India. The BOP troops commanded by a Havildar took little time to rise in revolt after they heard on the EPR wireless network that Pakistan army troops had attacked Dhaka University dormitories, EPR headquarters at Peelkhana, Police Lines at Rajarbagh and the East Bengal Regimental Centre at Chittagong cantonment that night, and had fired upon and killed indiscriminately unarmed Bangalis. I was told that EPR troops had risen in revolt throughout the country. Clearly the uneducated EPR troops under my command had already been fired up with Bangali nationalism and patriotism, and had switched their loyalty to a sovereign Bangladesh yet to be born.

Indeed the measure of the political upsurge having swept across the country for freedom and emancipation from Pakistan had been so strong and widespread that it could not but ignite the patriotic fervour of this largely Bangali para military force. I have no hesitation to say that the EPR troops under my command spontaneously rose in revolt, while I, as their commander, just followed suit. I closely observed, during the nine month long war of liberation, the grim determination of my EPR troops entrenched in the border area, saw streams of our people of varying social status crossing the border into India and finally came in touch with our brave young boys cheerfully going inside the country with light weapons and explosives to fight the occupation army and face sure martyrdom. I was in no doubt that the freedom loving people of this country would not stop short of achieving freedom and democracy no matter what the cost would be like. Indeed our victory on December 16, 1971 has been rather pyrrhic. Three million people embraced martyrdom. Thousands of our womenfolk were dishonoured. Over ten million people fled to India and lived in refugee camps. But this sacrifice was not just for carving out Bangladesh on the map of the world. For the teeming millions, the goal was to establish democracy, freedom and fundamental rights of our people on a firm footing which we were denied in Pakistan. 

A long 43 years have gone by since we had declared our independence from Pakistan on this day. But democracy and freedom shaping and guiding our destiny and most importantly the system of governance of this country have remained a far cry. Much as our politicians cutting across the political divide would cry hoarse in meetings and seminars for democracy and rule of law, and condemn military dictatorship or autocratic rule by a military junta, all our political governments without exception have preferred to rule this country like Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan ruled us in Pakistan, and later Hussian Muhammad Ershad, our local variant of the Pakistani dictators, ruled us in Bangladesh. 

It is a pity that while there is a flourishing and vibrant democracy in neighbouring India, the largest democracy in the world, democracy and democratic culture have not been allowed to strike roots in our national politics and the mainstream political parties. Dynastic rule and anti-people politics are what our politicians have opted for. Sheikh Hasina has been the president of Awami League ever since she was elevated to this post in the eighties. No one would challenge her in the party congress. It is she who would appoint the party leaders at different tiers. No need for election. This is how the party congresses have been stage-managed all these years. The same is the case with Begum Khaleda Zia and her BNP.
........................................................................

The writer is a Freedom Fighter and retired Brigadier General.

* INDEPENDENCE DAY SPECIAL 2015 *
* Killing of the best Bengali pilots of PIA *
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Illustration: Ahmed Nazir, Memory Of 71, Courtesy: Depart

Lt. Col. (Retd.) Quazi Sajjad Ali Zahir Bir Protik
PIA - Pakistan International Airlines was the government owned airline of Pakistan. Pakistanis used to put a lot of hindrance to the Bengalis who wanted to join PIA. But the negative attitude of the Pakistanis used to discourage them from joining PIA. Only a small percentage of Bengalis had the opportunity of joining the airlines, especially as a pilot. The appointments which were unimportant in nature and where West Pakistanis did not like to serve used to be allocated to the Bengalis. The Bengali pilots were kept under strict surveillance so that they could not organise themselves. They were also not posted in any sensitive appointments.

The Bengali pilots tried for many years to raise their demand against the discrimination through PIA Pilots Association. But as they were few in numbers and did not hold effective positions in the association, their demands were not accepted. Having no other alternative, the Bengali pilots decided to form their own association but kept it clandestine at the beginning. In early February 1971, Shahkur Ullah Durrani, the Managing Director of PIA came for a visit to Dhaka. A few Bengali pilots from the association met Durrani in Hotel Intercontinental where he was staying and discussed with him about the problems they were facing. Durrani listened to their grievances and advised them to submit their points in writing which was done immediately. No action was taken on the points after submission. But Durrani was able to identify the persons who were raising their voices for their demands which he was known to have passed on to the military authorities. Durrani, in his youth, served in the Pakistan Army for three years as an officer and maintained regular liaison with the defence forces. As such, he passed on the detailed information on the activities of the Bengali pilots especially about the association members which had helped the army to apprehend and eliminate the Bengali pilots and officials of PIA at a later date. 

The Bengali pilots formed an association namely East Pakistan Airlines Pilot Association (EPALPA). The first few meetings were secretly held in the house of Captain Alamgir at 9/6 Iqbal Road, Block A, Mohammadpur, Dacca. But this was noticed by the intelligence agency of Pakistan namely ISI. Intelligence officials were seen watching the house when the meetings were held. 

Steps were taken for immediate registration of EPALPA for giving it a legal coverage. A committee of 10 members were formed which included Captain W.R. Chowdhury, Captain Abdul Khaleque, Captain A T M Alamgir, Captain Alamgir Sattar, Captain Zahir, Captain Rafi, Captain Abu Salem, Captain Monowar, Captain Khondkar, Captain Shahabuddin Ahmed, Captain Zaman. The committee enjoyed the overwhelming support of all the Bengali pilots. Captain W.R. Chowdhury was elected as Chairman and Captain Alamgir as the General Secretary of EPALPA. The newly formed committee started functioning from a room in Awlad Hussain Market at Old Airport Road. A news bulletin namely Bihango Barta started being published which used to be edited by Captain Alamgir.

Captain Khaleque who was the Vice Chairman of the committee was posted to Karachi. In the first week of February 1971, he came from Karachi to Dacca and informed the committee that a build up of massive troops had started to be implemented and soldiers were being flown into Dacca Airport in civil dress in large numbers from Karachi. Also, troops were being flown into Dacca from Lahore and Rawalpindi by special PIA flights via China and Burma. He also informed that in his flight every passenger (other than him) appeared to be from the army. He even had to come sitting in the jump seat. Most of the flights were landing in Dacca in the dead of the night. He requested this information to be passed on to Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. Captain Sattar, who was assigned the task, went to Bangabandhu and briefed him about the activities related to the movement of troops. The arrival of troops started to be monitored by the EPALPA members and in the first week of March, Captain Shahab and Captain Sattar went to Bangabandhu's house and informed him on the details of the latest movement of troops. From 1 March, restriction was in place for all Bengali pilots and staff of PIA from entering the airport without specific clearance from the airport management. The routine activities in the airport were being conducted by West Pakistani and East Pakistani non-Bengali officers and staff. Protesting this order, EPALPA decided that no Bengali pilots will fly any aircraft. Few West Pakistani pilots were brought in but they failed to meet the flight schedule. In the backdrop of the situation, Bangabandhu delivered the historic 7 March speech to the nation. The association started making plan to resist the Pakistan army as per directive of Bangabandhu. EPALPA officials prepared a plan consisting of 44 pages for forming a new airline which was submitted to Bangabandhu on 22 March 1971. The Association planned to take away a few small aircrafts and keep them in abandoned runways in hiding so that they may be used by the resistance forces in near future. 

On 25 March afternoon, around 4.30 p.m., some of the pilots saw Yahya Khan leaving Dacca Airport secretly. They informed all concerned about it. On the night of March 25, the Pakistan Army started Operation Search Light and simultaneously started raiding the houses of all important Bengalis including Bengali pilots. They were able to arrest Captain Sikander and immediately killed him. Later, from various locations in the city they were able to arrest Captain Amirul Islam, Captain Alamgir, Captain N S Haider and Deputy Managing Director (DMD) of PIA Fazlul Haq Chowdhury. These four pilots were most qualified instructor pilots out of total five Bengali instructor pilots. Only one instructor pilot Captain Nazrul, who was in his village, could save his life. Other than the pilots and DMD, 23 other Bengali officers and staff of PIA were killed by Pakistan Army. Among the members of EPALPA, Captain Khaleque joined the Liberation War and was awarded Bir Protik, Captain Alamgir Sattar awarded Bir Protik and Captain Sahab Bir Uttam.

The Pakistanis had made a detailed plan to kill the best and most talented Bengalis who could provide leadership to a new independent nation. These officials were arrested and no information reached their families who faced incomprehensive sufferings waiting for their dear ones to return which never happened. Pakistan Army killed the Bengali DMD and four best instructor pilots so that they could not train any more Bengali pilots. The savages and blood thirsty elements of Pakistan Army took away the defenceless captives and eliminated them. Their mortal remains were never found although much effort has been made by this writer of this article for many years, including the effort by conducting digging in the most likely places but in vain. These great sons of the soil never could see the wind of freedom and their souls till today could not feel the wind of justice.
...................................................................
The writer is a Freedom Fighter, recipient of Swadhinata Padak and researcher on the Liberation War.

ePaper - The Daily Star | Bangladesh Top news, Business, Sports, Entertainment, Politics, Technology, World, Lifestyle and Crime news.

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## asad71

Before the 1971 India-Pakistan war, Indian Navy’s (IN) sole aircraft carrier INS Vikrant was docked in Visakhapatnam at the eastern coast of India. After the 1971 hostilities started, Indian naval intelligence got wind of Pakistani plans to target the Vikrant through its flagship submarine PNS Ghazi which was a Tench-class diesel-electric submarine leased from the US Navy. During the initial days of the war the IN stealthily moved Vikrant to a secret harbor (Port X-Ray) in the Andaman and Nicobar islands. However, it wanted the Pakistani Navy (PN) to think the Vikrant was still in Visakhapatnam. To do this, every week large orders for groceries were made from the IN’s port in Visakhapatnam. These orders were large enough to sustain the 1,340 sailors of the INS Vikrant, and to any observer (including Pakistani spies) it meant the Vikrant was in Visakhapatnam. Another ship INS Rajput was used as a decoy for INS Vikrant, and several wireless transmissions were made to/from INS Rajput (a larger ship has more wireless messages). A deliberately unencrypted telegram was also sent wirelessly through INS Rajput in the name of a sailor from INS Vikrant asking about the health of his mother who had fallen seriously ill.

Pakistani Navy took the bait and sent PNS Ghazi off the harbor entrance in Visakhapatnam, where she was sunk by depth charges of IN ships , becoming the only submarine sunk in war after World War II. The hull of the submarine still lies in the sea bed off the Visakhapatnam coast. INS Vikrant continued on to southern East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) and played a pivotal role in the destruction of PN ports and ships.

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## Max Pain

The more I read about those events the more i get disgusted and Sad, I remember my parents saying what happened back in 71 was totally unjust yet It was totally forbidden for them to state their opinion against what was happening in East Pakistan during that time.
This is what prejudice does, when people dont get what they deserve, they use other means to do so.
Though we cant undo what happened, I can wish that hopefully we let go of our Past for a better future, the future where Pakistanis and Bengalis interact like Good friends.

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## monitor

*Heliborne Operations by Sylhet Gorkhas Leads to Early Surrender at Dacca*
Brigadier Rattan Kaul





Brigadier Rattan Kaul chronicles the operations carried out by the Sylhet Gurkhas (4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force)) during the war in 1971 and how it led to the surrender of Dacca.

With the turmoil in (then) East Pakistan, the arrest of Sheikh Mujib-u-Rehman and declaration of Martial Law, by the end of April 1971, it had became evident that Indian Army would be required to prepare for war against East Pakistan. Accordingly, Eastern Command was directed to start planning for the operations. By the end of May 1971, a plan formulated at Eastern Command level enumerated an offensive along three major thrust lines. These were:


II Corps (4 and 9 Divisions) as Western Thrust towards Jessore
North-eastern thrust by part of XXIII Corps (20 Mountain Division and couple of brigades from Army reserves) towards Dinajpur/Bogra
Eastern thrust by IV Corps (8 (less a brigade), 57 and 23 Mountain Divisions).
The plan at this stage talked of Dacca as the final objective, but neither direction nor force level/formation was defined. By July 1971, at Army Headquarters level, a broad framework of a plan was made, which enumerated blockade and isolation of East Pakistan, segmenting Pakistani defences to prevent withdrawal or reinforcements and finally bypass fixed defences and secure important communication centres.* Dacca, in these deliberations, was not defined as an objective*.






*Map showing river basins of Bangladesh (then East Pakistan)*

In August, then COAS General, later Field Marshal SHFJ Manekshaw, accompanied by then DGMO Major General K K Singh, visited the Headquarters of Eastern Command to discuss the plan. The team, as well as Army Commander, Lieutenant General J S Aurora, were sceptical about capturing Dacca within the time frame of a short war and felt that the orthodox techniques and shortage of bridging equipment would make Dacca unattainable. Finally, Khulna {II Corps} and Chittagong {IV Corps} were made terminal objectives, without mention of Dacca. At a later stage, the Navy agreed to blockade Chittagong in support of IV Corps operations. As a result of further discussions, a modified plan emerged. In this plan, objectives were divergent; II Corps to contact Padma River, XXIII Corps was to slice Hilli-Gaibanda Neck. Northern thrust of 101 Comn Zone was to be given a brigade (59), tentatively allocated a battalion para drop and the formation was to advance towards Jamalpur/Mymensingh/Tangail and had only River Brahmputra (500 metres wide) to cross to reach centre of then East Pakistan. IV Corps was to contact Meghna River and contain Sylhet. Even at this stage, no clear directives were given for capture of Dacca. However, the plan talked about regrouping of the forces after II Corps reaching Goalunda Ghat on Padma River, XXIII Corps reaching the confluence of Ganga and Brahmaputra called Hilli-Gaibanda Neck, while IV Corps was not expected to go beyond Meghna River and much was not expected of 101 Comn Zone. On 16th August, Army Headquarters issued Operation Instruction based on which Eastern Command issued instructions for objectives for each thrust. Even at this stage, Dacca was not mentioned in any of them. In this plan, the two formations that could reach Dacca were 101 Comn Zone and IV Corps, once it crossed Meghna River. But this was not defined. By this time, Mukhti Bahini forces, grouped under various sectors, were operative. Their results were as expected, but in spite of their best efforts, lacked the ability to hold ground for longer period(s). By the end of September and beginning of October, even Indian Army sub units went inside the East Pakistan territory in support of Mukhti Bahini operations; like Sarkar Bazar, Charkhai- Sylhet, Banga etc. These forays were more of harassment tasks, rather than contributing to the objectives enumerated in the Eastern Command plan. By the end of November, own troops had launched so called 'Knife Thrusts', aiming at attacking Pakistani regular troop positions; to capture territory and cause attrition. Dhalai, Atgram, Zakiganj etc. were some of such actions, which were successfully undertaken prior to declaration of war on 3rd December 1971. By this time, most of the formations had captured areas, which nearly positioned them ahead of their launch pads and many of these places were either their initial objectives or closer to them.

From this point onwards, this paper will deal with the main topic as to how Dacca became the terminal objective, ground and heliborne operations leading to the surrender at Dacca; mainly discussing the operations of 101 Comn Zone and IV Corps, which finally knocked on the doors of Dacca Cantonment. 101 Comn Zone had its objectives as Jamalpur/Jaidevpur with possible para drop at Tangail, to pose a threat from Northern direction. No time line was given to them and initial thrusts of this force, duly supported by Mukhti Bahini, progressed satisfactorily. After 9th December, an additional brigade (167) was given to them. IV Corps, as per plans, had planned to capture Comilla by D + 7, secure Meghna River Line by D + 18, secure approaches to Sylhet and if possible capture Sylhet (No time frame was given for the capture of Sylhet. D Day being the day War breaks out/offensive is launched). Akhaura was to be captured for the security of Agartala and finally Chittagong was to be isolated/ captured after completion of all other tasks. As the operations progressed in the 8 Mountain Division sector, 81 Mountain Brigade captured Shamsher Nagar Airfield, 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) captured Gazipur on the night of 4/5 December, after an attack the night before by 6 Rajput had failed. By 6th December morning, 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) had secured the Kalaura rail head leading to Sylhet.

On the evening of 6th December, IV Corps was directed by Eastern Command to launch Heliborne Operation at Sylhet on the next day (7th December). This heliborne operation was planned and launched on the presumption and information that troops from Sylhet had withdrawn, various axes leading to Sylhet secured and there would be no or nominal resistance to the heliborne force. Also, satellite reconnaissance from a friendly country had revealed that Sylhet was unoccupied. However, confirmed and corroborated information was that 22 Baluch had prematurely withdrawn from Kalaura, after an attack on Gazipur by 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force), to Sylhet, which was indicative enough that Sylhet was occupied _ab-initio_ by reasonable strength and further strengthened. Actually at Eastern Command a Pakistani message from Dacca to Pakistani 14 Infantry Division was intercepted, which gave orders to the division to move a brigade of the division to Meghna River. The assessment at Eastern Command level was that the only brigade which could be withdrawn from the Pakistani 14 Infantry Division had to be from Sylhet proper, giving an assessment that Sylhet was or would soon be vacated. At IV Corps Headquarters, Corps Commander Lieutenant General Sagat Singh, never mentioning about the directive of the Eastern Command, gave the impression that Sylhet Garrison wanted to surrender and hence a Heliborne Operation by a Battalion, which would be walk-in for the Battalion. The Corps Commander had discussions with Major General K. V. Krishna Rao, GOC 8 Mountain Division, and it was decided to launch 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) for the operation. As per General Rao, in spite of heavy casualties in two successful attacks at Atgram and Gazipur, "It was the best battalion in my Division. It has great pride and esprit de corps; a feeling that nothing will deter and are prepared to make any sacrifice." Based on these inputs, the first reconnaissance flight to Sylhet was carried out on the morning of 7th December at about 1000 hours, when Commander 59 Mountain Brigade Brigadier C. A. Quinn, Group Captain Chandan Singh Commander 6 TAC, 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) Commanding Officer Lieutenant Colonel A. B. Harolikar, and Wing Commander R. S. Sandhu flew over Sylhet. No fire was drawn, reinforcing the idea that Sylhet was vacated.

With a plethora of intelligence information, confidence at higher level was that Sylhet was vacated. Two companies under a Commanding Officer took off from Kalaura and landed at Mirpara on the outskirts of Sylhet, at 3 PM on 7th December 1971. The landing was contested by Pakistani troops, heavy MMG fire and artillery shells, indicating that Sylhet was occupied and well defended. The landing troops held ground in spite of strong reaction and counter attacks. There were no further flights on 7th December and the balance of the Battalion build up happened only on the next morning (8th) and adopted wider deployment to give the impression of a larger force having landed. The media added further inputs by reporting that a brigade had been heli-landed at Sylhet.

​

*Heli landing Sylhet - 7th December 1971*

(Click on image to enlarge)



​

*Surrender Ceremony - 16th Dec. 1971, 4 PM*

(Click on image to enlarge)

























On 8th December, the forward company commander of the heliborne force (Major Kaul) switched on his radio set and picked up a clear conversation of 313 Infantry Brigade having been in Sylhet and planning a counter attack on the heli-landed force. Due to wider deployment adopted by the Battalion, the Pakistanis were under the impression that a full brigade had landed and they were trying to regain some of the area with this counter attack. To quote Commanding Officer Lieutenant Colonel A. B. Harolikar (in the book, _Bravest of the Brave_): "From a wireless transmission intercepted by Major Kaul, it was clear that 313 Infantry Brigade had arrived in Sylhet on 7th December and along with 202 Infantry Brigade, were planning an attack (with five companies) on Alfa (Major Rana) and Delta (Major Kaul) Companies, which were posing a serious threat to the bridge, besides also being a road block."

​
*Lt. Gen J. S. Aurora with Hav. Dil Bahadur Chettri, MVC, and Lt Col A. B. Harolikar, MVC, after the war.*

(Click on image to enlarge)

The information of the radio intercept was duly passed on to the higher formations. In the Pakistani plans, Pakistani Brigade (313) was meant to defend crossings over Meghna River, Coronation Bridge and approach to Dacca. Instead this brigade withdrew to Sylhet, on orders of the GOC Pakistani 14 Infantry Division (Qazi Majid) and 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) had now to tackle two brigades (202 and 313). The higher thinking on receipt of this information from the Battalion can be best summed up in the words of Lieutenant General JFR Jacob, PVSM (in the book, _Birth of a Nation_): "On 7th December, 4/5 Gorkha Rifles of 59 Mountain Brigade had been lifted by helicopters to the South-East of Sylhet across the Surma River. The Pakistanis had evacuated the civilian population from Sylhet and fortified the town. The Pakistani 202 Infantry Brigade held the defences. Pakistani 313 Infantry Brigade, ex-Maulvi Bazar, joined the Sylhet Garrison, bringing the strength up to six battalions, one regiment of 105 mm. guns and one battery of 120 mm. mortars. The move of Pakistani 313 Infantry Brigade from Maulvi Bazar to Sylhet had not been anticipated by us at Command Headquarters and came as a surprise. We had expected this brigade to fall back to Coronation Bridge on the Meghna River, for the defence of the Meghna crossing and Dacca. Had they done so, IV Corps progress across the Meghna would have been difficult. When we got the radio intercepts confirming their move to Sylhet, we were relieved. It meant for all practical purposes, that two infantry brigades were out on a limb at Sylhet, where they could be contained and their effectiveness neutralised. After the war, whilst interrogating the General Officer Commanding (GOC) of the Pakistani division (14), Major General Abdul Quazi (Qazi Majid), I asked him why he had moved this brigade to Sylhet. He replied that he was determined that he would not let us capture Sylhet. Niazi’s fortress strategy and the divisional commanders implementation of this policy speeded up the disintegration of Pakistani defence capabilities and facilitated the capture of Dacca."

Late Lieutenant General A.A.K Niazi narrates this move as treason (in the book, _Betrayal of Pakistan_): "Within the overall defensive plan of the sector, 14 Division had been entrusted with the task of defending Narsingdi-Narayanganj Sector. They were to fall back, when ordered, from Sylhet and Ashuganj. Sylhet Brigade had come down to Maulvi Bazar. Majid (GOC 14 Infantry Division) had been given the mission to fall back on Dacca after the destruction of the Bhairab Bazar Bridge. I ordered him to fall back to Narsingdi. He regretted his inability to do so. He was specially given six ferries for the move to Dacca and the railway line was also available to him - it was later used by Indians, and his troops watched the spectacle. He could easily have reached Dacca, but he never even made (an) attempt. It appears his disobedience was part of the plan to let the East Pakistan garrison face ignominy. He knew that the defence of Dacca was vital. Still he failed to obey. I, therefore, removed him from the command of his division and put his troops under the command of 36 Division." (After the war and repatriation, Major General Qazi Majid was tried by a Court Martial for treason).

​
*Lt. Gen. Sagat Singh and Maj. Gen. K. V. Krishna Rao with Hav. Dil Bahadur Chettri at Sylhet*

(Click on image to enlarge)

On the morning of 9th December, on receipt of information at Command Headquarters and IV Corps, it was decided, that 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) having tied down two Pakistani Brigades at Sylhet (202 and 313), all resources must be geared to establish link up with the heliborne force. It was also appreciated that the Pakistanis had no force available to defend the Meghna crossings. What was the worry was that how far 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) could continue to hold the two brigades at Sylhet and advance to Meghna river. Lieutenant General Sagat Singh had his vision now fixed on Dacca, since the Meghna river would not be defended strongly and gave an opening towards Dacca. As per the earlier plans, contact of Meghna river by IV Corps was to be made by 21 December (D + 18 - D Day being 3rd December). At this stage, the plan of the IV Corps advance only upto the Meghna River was suddenly changed to be the first to cross the Meghna and race towards Dacca. Even at this stage, the surrender of Dacca was not envisaged. To implement this revised plan to cross the Meghna river, all helicopter resources meant for 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) were diverted on the 9th for ferrying operations of 311 Infantry Brigade and 57 Mountain Division and 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) left on its own, with no link up for next 8 days. In fact, Heliborne Operations of 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force), now fondly called *Sylhet Gurkhas*, had tied down the brigades who would have defended Meghna/Dacca and this opened the route for an unopposed crossing of the Meghna river by IV Corps troops to enable them to pose a threat to Dacca from the Eastern Thrust Line.

​
*Sylhet Trophy Unveiled in 1983*

(Click on image to enlarge)

The movement of IV Corps towards Dacca gained momentum and where the plans were to contact Meghna river on D + 18 (21st December), IV Corps troops reached and crossed Meghna river much earlier (14th December). On the 14th, 101 Comn Zone was placed under command of Advance Tactical Headquarters of IV Corps, in situ, at the behest of IV Corps, who were now around Meghna river. In the meantime, GOC 101 Comn Zone (Major General G. Nagra) along with his GSO 1 (Lt. Gen. Y. M. Bammi, PVSM, AVSM), and some forces (Company 2 Para, 6 Sikh LI and Mukhtis under Brigadier Sant Singh, MVC), reached Dacca on the morning of 16th at about 10 AM and established contact with General Niazi. In fact, Major General Nagra sent a small note on the scribbling pad of his GSO 1 to Niazi for an early meeting. They knew each other when Major General Nagra was Defence Attaché in Pakistan and Niazi was a brigade commander. At about 11 AM, Lieutenant General J. F. R. Jacob arrived and met Niazi and the surrender ceremony planned for the same evening. When this was happening at Dacca, Sylhet Gurkhas (4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force)) had been inside Sylhet town for nearly 24 hours, having had the surrender ceremony completed on 15th December at 3 PM, when IV Corps troops were nowhere close to Dacca. Then, on the morning of the 16th at 9 AM, they (Sylhet Gurkhas) took the physical charge of 3 Brigadiers, 1 Colonel, 107 officers, 219 JCOs and 6190 soldiers and 39 non-combatant Pakistanis.

An analysis of the Heliborne Operations by Sylhet Gurkhas will indicate that the operation was mounted in an intelligence vacuum, in an area appreciated to be devoid of Pakistani troops. The Sylhet Gurkhas landing was opposed and not withstanding strong opposition, held ground till the two Pakistani brigades surrendered on 15th December, even before the official ceasefire. Had 313 Pakistan Infantry Brigade not moved into Sylhet, things would have been different at the theatre level. This could have been all the more different if Sylhet Gurkhas had not tied down the two brigades from the 7th to the 15th of December. Possibly, if Lieutenant General Niazi had succeeded in getting this brigade (313) to defend the Meghna river and Narsingdi, making movement of IV Corps as well as 101 Comn Zone towards Dacca difficult, the Dacca surrender may not have taken place on 16th December.

On a conservative estimate, the Heliborne Operation of Sylhet Gurkhas (4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force)) made it possible for Indian Army and Mukhti Bahini to reach Dacca much earlier than planned; at least by 8 days. On the 16th, when the surrender ceremony was going on at Dacca, Sylhet Gurkhas were celebrating with a toast, in honour of three fold success of the Battalion:


First Ever Successful Heliborne Operation of Indian Army, which tied the two brigades from the 7th to the 15th of December.
Surrender of two Pakistani Brigades (202 and 313) on 15th December 1971.
First major surrender to own forces in the Eastern Theatre.
But the fourth larger toast, unknown to them at that time, was reserved for surrender at Dacca, which was thought unattainable. For 'Early Dacca Surrender' was made possible by Sylhet Gurkhas tying down the Pakistani Meghna River Brigade (313), in addition to 202 Pak Infantry Brigade at Sylhet from the 7th to the 15th.

The Battalion by now had three successful major operations to its credit: Atgram, Ghazipur and Sylhet. However, the degree of valour and contribution to the early creation of free Bangladesh, credit also goes to the men of the Sylhet Gurkhas, but not without a price. The cost of glory over the 27 days (20th November to 16th December) was not meagre. Thirty one (4 Officers, 3 Junior Commissioned Officers, 7 Non-Commissioned Officers and 17 Riflemen) sacrificed their lives. Ironically one officer (Major Puri) and one Rifleman (Rifleman Kanta Bir Thapa) were injured during the 1965 War also, but this time they sacrificed their lives. Another 122 (7 Officers, 2 Junior Commissioned Officers, 32 Non- Commissioned Officers and 81 Riflemen) were injured. A total of 153 casualties, including 11 Officers, constituted nearly 25 percent of the Battalion strength, out of which 55 were leaders at different levels (Officers, Junior Commissioned Officers and Non-Commissioned Officers); nearly 8 percent of the Battalion strength. This was the leadership and lead provided by Company, Platoon and Section Commanders. Sylhet is the Battle Honour of The Sylhet Gurkhas and East Pakistan as Theatre Honour and nobody can deny that Heliborne Operations by Sylhet Gurkhas lead to early surrender at Dacca in December 1971.



_Brigadier Kaul was Assault Company Commander (D Company) during the infiltration Khukri attack at Atgram and Forward Company Commander during the Battle of Sylhet. He was seriously injured during the battle of Sylhet._


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## shazlion

Read this Blog for Real Truth about 1971 WAR

When India-Sponsored Mukti Bahini Raped & Slaughtered 1 Million Muslims by Bangladesh Patriot


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## asad71

shazlion said:


> Read this Blog for Real Truth about 1971 WAR
> 
> When India-Sponsored Mukti Bahini Raped & Slaughtered 1 Million Muslims by Bangladesh Patriot



The link doesn't open. Rapes / killings were committed by PA and the locally raised irregulars.



monitor said:


> *Heliborne Operations by Sylhet Gorkhas Leads to Early Surrender at Dacca*
> Brigadier Rattan Kaul
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brigadier Rattan Kaul chronicles the operations carried out by the Sylhet Gurkhas (4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force)) during the war in 1971 and how it led to the surrender of Dacca.
> 
> With the turmoil in (then) East Pakistan, the arrest of Sheikh Mujib-u-Rehman and declaration of Martial Law, by the end of April 1971, it had became evident that Indian Army would be required to prepare for war against East Pakistan. Accordingly, Eastern Command was directed to start planning for the operations. By the end of May 1971, a plan formulated at Eastern Command level enumerated an offensive along three major thrust lines. These were:
> 
> 
> II Corps (4 and 9 Divisions) as Western Thrust towards Jessore
> North-eastern thrust by part of XXIII Corps (20 Mountain Division and couple of brigades from Army reserves) towards Dinajpur/Bogra
> Eastern thrust by IV Corps (8 (less a brigade), 57 and 23 Mountain Divisions).
> The plan at this stage talked of Dacca as the final objective, but neither direction nor force level/formation was defined. By July 1971, at Army Headquarters level, a broad framework of a plan was made, which enumerated blockade and isolation of East Pakistan, segmenting Pakistani defences to prevent withdrawal or reinforcements and finally bypass fixed defences and secure important communication centres.* Dacca, in these deliberations, was not defined as an objective*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Map showing river basins of Bangladesh (then East Pakistan)*
> 
> In August, then COAS General, later Field Marshal SHFJ Manekshaw, accompanied by then DGMO Major General K K Singh, visited the Headquarters of Eastern Command to discuss the plan. The team, as well as Army Commander, Lieutenant General J S Aurora, were sceptical about capturing Dacca within the time frame of a short war and felt that the orthodox techniques and shortage of bridging equipment would make Dacca unattainable. Finally, Khulna {II Corps} and Chittagong {IV Corps} were made terminal objectives, without mention of Dacca. At a later stage, the Navy agreed to blockade Chittagong in support of IV Corps operations. As a result of further discussions, a modified plan emerged. In this plan, objectives were divergent; II Corps to contact Padma River, XXIII Corps was to slice Hilli-Gaibanda Neck. Northern thrust of 101 Comn Zone was to be given a brigade (59), tentatively allocated a battalion para drop and the formation was to advance towards Jamalpur/Mymensingh/Tangail and had only River Brahmputra (500 metres wide) to cross to reach centre of then East Pakistan. IV Corps was to contact Meghna River and contain Sylhet. Even at this stage, no clear directives were given for capture of Dacca. However, the plan talked about regrouping of the forces after II Corps reaching Goalunda Ghat on Padma River, XXIII Corps reaching the confluence of Ganga and Brahmaputra called Hilli-Gaibanda Neck, while IV Corps was not expected to go beyond Meghna River and much was not expected of 101 Comn Zone. On 16th August, Army Headquarters issued Operation Instruction based on which Eastern Command issued instructions for objectives for each thrust. Even at this stage, Dacca was not mentioned in any of them. In this plan, the two formations that could reach Dacca were 101 Comn Zone and IV Corps, once it crossed Meghna River. But this was not defined. By this time, Mukhti Bahini forces, grouped under various sectors, were operative. Their results were as expected, but in spite of their best efforts, lacked the ability to hold ground for longer period(s). By the end of September and beginning of October, even Indian Army sub units went inside the East Pakistan territory in support of Mukhti Bahini operations; like Sarkar Bazar, Charkhai- Sylhet, Banga etc. These forays were more of harassment tasks, rather than contributing to the objectives enumerated in the Eastern Command plan. By the end of November, own troops had launched so called 'Knife Thrusts', aiming at attacking Pakistani regular troop positions; to capture territory and cause attrition. Dhalai, Atgram, Zakiganj etc. were some of such actions, which were successfully undertaken prior to declaration of war on 3rd December 1971. By this time, most of the formations had captured areas, which nearly positioned them ahead of their launch pads and many of these places were either their initial objectives or closer to them.
> 
> From this point onwards, this paper will deal with the main topic as to how Dacca became the terminal objective, ground and heliborne operations leading to the surrender at Dacca; mainly discussing the operations of 101 Comn Zone and IV Corps, which finally knocked on the doors of Dacca Cantonment. 101 Comn Zone had its objectives as Jamalpur/Jaidevpur with possible para drop at Tangail, to pose a threat from Northern direction. No time line was given to them and initial thrusts of this force, duly supported by Mukhti Bahini, progressed satisfactorily. After 9th December, an additional brigade (167) was given to them. IV Corps, as per plans, had planned to capture Comilla by D + 7, secure Meghna River Line by D + 18, secure approaches to Sylhet and if possible capture Sylhet (No time frame was given for the capture of Sylhet. D Day being the day War breaks out/offensive is launched). Akhaura was to be captured for the security of Agartala and finally Chittagong was to be isolated/ captured after completion of all other tasks. As the operations progressed in the 8 Mountain Division sector, 81 Mountain Brigade captured Shamsher Nagar Airfield, 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) captured Gazipur on the night of 4/5 December, after an attack the night before by 6 Rajput had failed. By 6th December morning, 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) had secured the Kalaura rail head leading to Sylhet.
> 
> On the evening of 6th December, IV Corps was directed by Eastern Command to launch Heliborne Operation at Sylhet on the next day (7th December). This heliborne operation was planned and launched on the presumption and information that troops from Sylhet had withdrawn, various axes leading to Sylhet secured and there would be no or nominal resistance to the heliborne force. Also, satellite reconnaissance from a friendly country had revealed that Sylhet was unoccupied. However, confirmed and corroborated information was that 22 Baluch had prematurely withdrawn from Kalaura, after an attack on Gazipur by 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force), to Sylhet, which was indicative enough that Sylhet was occupied _ab-initio_ by reasonable strength and further strengthened. Actually at Eastern Command a Pakistani message from Dacca to Pakistani 14 Infantry Division was intercepted, which gave orders to the division to move a brigade of the division to Meghna River. The assessment at Eastern Command level was that the only brigade which could be withdrawn from the Pakistani 14 Infantry Division had to be from Sylhet proper, giving an assessment that Sylhet was or would soon be vacated. At IV Corps Headquarters, Corps Commander Lieutenant General Sagat Singh, never mentioning about the directive of the Eastern Command, gave the impression that Sylhet Garrison wanted to surrender and hence a Heliborne Operation by a Battalion, which would be walk-in for the Battalion. The Corps Commander had discussions with Major General K. V. Krishna Rao, GOC 8 Mountain Division, and it was decided to launch 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) for the operation. As per General Rao, in spite of heavy casualties in two successful attacks at Atgram and Gazipur, "It was the best battalion in my Division. It has great pride and esprit de corps; a feeling that nothing will deter and are prepared to make any sacrifice." Based on these inputs, the first reconnaissance flight to Sylhet was carried out on the morning of 7th December at about 1000 hours, when Commander 59 Mountain Brigade Brigadier C. A. Quinn, Group Captain Chandan Singh Commander 6 TAC, 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) Commanding Officer Lieutenant Colonel A. B. Harolikar, and Wing Commander R. S. Sandhu flew over Sylhet. No fire was drawn, reinforcing the idea that Sylhet was vacated.
> 
> With a plethora of intelligence information, confidence at higher level was that Sylhet was vacated. Two companies under a Commanding Officer took off from Kalaura and landed at Mirpara on the outskirts of Sylhet, at 3 PM on 7th December 1971. The landing was contested by Pakistani troops, heavy MMG fire and artillery shells, indicating that Sylhet was occupied and well defended. The landing troops held ground in spite of strong reaction and counter attacks. There were no further flights on 7th December and the balance of the Battalion build up happened only on the next morning (8th) and adopted wider deployment to give the impression of a larger force having landed. The media added further inputs by reporting that a brigade had been heli-landed at Sylhet.
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> *Heli landing Sylhet - 7th December 1971*
> 
> (Click on image to enlarge)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> *Surrender Ceremony - 16th Dec. 1971, 4 PM*
> 
> (Click on image to enlarge)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 8th December, the forward company commander of the heliborne force (Major Kaul) switched on his radio set and picked up a clear conversation of 313 Infantry Brigade having been in Sylhet and planning a counter attack on the heli-landed force. Due to wider deployment adopted by the Battalion, the Pakistanis were under the impression that a full brigade had landed and they were trying to regain some of the area with this counter attack. To quote Commanding Officer Lieutenant Colonel A. B. Harolikar (in the book, _Bravest of the Brave_): "From a wireless transmission intercepted by Major Kaul, it was clear that 313 Infantry Brigade had arrived in Sylhet on 7th December and along with 202 Infantry Brigade, were planning an attack (with five companies) on Alfa (Major Rana) and Delta (Major Kaul) Companies, which were posing a serious threat to the bridge, besides also being a road block."
> 
> 
> 
> ​*Lt. Gen J. S. Aurora with Hav. Dil Bahadur Chettri, MVC, and Lt Col A. B. Harolikar, MVC, after the war.*
> 
> (Click on image to enlarge)
> 
> The information of the radio intercept was duly passed on to the higher formations. In the Pakistani plans, Pakistani Brigade (313) was meant to defend crossings over Meghna River, Coronation Bridge and approach to Dacca. Instead this brigade withdrew to Sylhet, on orders of the GOC Pakistani 14 Infantry Division (Qazi Majid) and 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) had now to tackle two brigades (202 and 313). The higher thinking on receipt of this information from the Battalion can be best summed up in the words of Lieutenant General JFR Jacob, PVSM (in the book, _Birth of a Nation_): "On 7th December, 4/5 Gorkha Rifles of 59 Mountain Brigade had been lifted by helicopters to the South-East of Sylhet across the Surma River. The Pakistanis had evacuated the civilian population from Sylhet and fortified the town. The Pakistani 202 Infantry Brigade held the defences. Pakistani 313 Infantry Brigade, ex-Maulvi Bazar, joined the Sylhet Garrison, bringing the strength up to six battalions, one regiment of 105 mm. guns and one battery of 120 mm. mortars. The move of Pakistani 313 Infantry Brigade from Maulvi Bazar to Sylhet had not been anticipated by us at Command Headquarters and came as a surprise. We had expected this brigade to fall back to Coronation Bridge on the Meghna River, for the defence of the Meghna crossing and Dacca. Had they done so, IV Corps progress across the Meghna would have been difficult. When we got the radio intercepts confirming their move to Sylhet, we were relieved. It meant for all practical purposes, that two infantry brigades were out on a limb at Sylhet, where they could be contained and their effectiveness neutralised. After the war, whilst interrogating the General Officer Commanding (GOC) of the Pakistani division (14), Major General Abdul Quazi (Qazi Majid), I asked him why he had moved this brigade to Sylhet. He replied that he was determined that he would not let us capture Sylhet. Niazi’s fortress strategy and the divisional commanders implementation of this policy speeded up the disintegration of Pakistani defence capabilities and facilitated the capture of Dacca."
> 
> Late Lieutenant General A.A.K Niazi narrates this move as treason (in the book, _Betrayal of Pakistan_): "Within the overall defensive plan of the sector, 14 Division had been entrusted with the task of defending Narsingdi-Narayanganj Sector. They were to fall back, when ordered, from Sylhet and Ashuganj. Sylhet Brigade had come down to Maulvi Bazar. Majid (GOC 14 Infantry Division) had been given the mission to fall back on Dacca after the destruction of the Bhairab Bazar Bridge. I ordered him to fall back to Narsingdi. He regretted his inability to do so. He was specially given six ferries for the move to Dacca and the railway line was also available to him - it was later used by Indians, and his troops watched the spectacle. He could easily have reached Dacca, but he never even made (an) attempt. It appears his disobedience was part of the plan to let the East Pakistan garrison face ignominy. He knew that the defence of Dacca was vital. Still he failed to obey. I, therefore, removed him from the command of his division and put his troops under the command of 36 Division." (After the war and repatriation, Major General Qazi Majid was tried by a Court Martial for treason).
> 
> 
> 
> ​*Lt. Gen. Sagat Singh and Maj. Gen. K. V. Krishna Rao with Hav. Dil Bahadur Chettri at Sylhet*
> 
> (Click on image to enlarge)
> 
> On the morning of 9th December, on receipt of information at Command Headquarters and IV Corps, it was decided, that 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) having tied down two Pakistani Brigades at Sylhet (202 and 313), all resources must be geared to establish link up with the heliborne force. It was also appreciated that the Pakistanis had no force available to defend the Meghna crossings. What was the worry was that how far 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) could continue to hold the two brigades at Sylhet and advance to Meghna river. Lieutenant General Sagat Singh had his vision now fixed on Dacca, since the Meghna river would not be defended strongly and gave an opening towards Dacca. As per the earlier plans, contact of Meghna river by IV Corps was to be made by 21 December (D + 18 - D Day being 3rd December). At this stage, the plan of the IV Corps advance only upto the Meghna River was suddenly changed to be the first to cross the Meghna and race towards Dacca. Even at this stage, the surrender of Dacca was not envisaged. To implement this revised plan to cross the Meghna river, all helicopter resources meant for 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) were diverted on the 9th for ferrying operations of 311 Infantry Brigade and 57 Mountain Division and 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) left on its own, with no link up for next 8 days. In fact, Heliborne Operations of 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force), now fondly called *Sylhet Gurkhas*, had tied down the brigades who would have defended Meghna/Dacca and this opened the route for an unopposed crossing of the Meghna river by IV Corps troops to enable them to pose a threat to Dacca from the Eastern Thrust Line.
> 
> 
> 
> ​*Sylhet Trophy Unveiled in 1983*
> 
> (Click on image to enlarge)
> 
> The movement of IV Corps towards Dacca gained momentum and where the plans were to contact Meghna river on D + 18 (21st December), IV Corps troops reached and crossed Meghna river much earlier (14th December). On the 14th, 101 Comn Zone was placed under command of Advance Tactical Headquarters of IV Corps, in situ, at the behest of IV Corps, who were now around Meghna river. In the meantime, GOC 101 Comn Zone (Major General G. Nagra) along with his GSO 1 (Lt. Gen. Y. M. Bammi, PVSM, AVSM), and some forces (Company 2 Para, 6 Sikh LI and Mukhtis under Brigadier Sant Singh, MVC), reached Dacca on the morning of 16th at about 10 AM and established contact with General Niazi. In fact, Major General Nagra sent a small note on the scribbling pad of his GSO 1 to Niazi for an early meeting. They knew each other when Major General Nagra was Defence Attaché in Pakistan and Niazi was a brigade commander. At about 11 AM, Lieutenant General J. F. R. Jacob arrived and met Niazi and the surrender ceremony planned for the same evening. When this was happening at Dacca, Sylhet Gurkhas (4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force)) had been inside Sylhet town for nearly 24 hours, having had the surrender ceremony completed on 15th December at 3 PM, when IV Corps troops were nowhere close to Dacca. Then, on the morning of the 16th at 9 AM, they (Sylhet Gurkhas) took the physical charge of 3 Brigadiers, 1 Colonel, 107 officers, 219 JCOs and 6190 soldiers and 39 non-combatant Pakistanis.
> 
> An analysis of the Heliborne Operations by Sylhet Gurkhas will indicate that the operation was mounted in an intelligence vacuum, in an area appreciated to be devoid of Pakistani troops. The Sylhet Gurkhas landing was opposed and not withstanding strong opposition, held ground till the two Pakistani brigades surrendered on 15th December, even before the official ceasefire. Had 313 Pakistan Infantry Brigade not moved into Sylhet, things would have been different at the theatre level. This could have been all the more different if Sylhet Gurkhas had not tied down the two brigades from the 7th to the 15th of December. Possibly, if Lieutenant General Niazi had succeeded in getting this brigade (313) to defend the Meghna river and Narsingdi, making movement of IV Corps as well as 101 Comn Zone towards Dacca difficult, the Dacca surrender may not have taken place on 16th December.
> 
> On a conservative estimate, the Heliborne Operation of Sylhet Gurkhas (4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force)) made it possible for Indian Army and Mukhti Bahini to reach Dacca much earlier than planned; at least by 8 days. On the 16th, when the surrender ceremony was going on at Dacca, Sylhet Gurkhas were celebrating with a toast, in honour of three fold success of the Battalion:
> 
> 
> First Ever Successful Heliborne Operation of Indian Army, which tied the two brigades from the 7th to the 15th of December.
> Surrender of two Pakistani Brigades (202 and 313) on 15th December 1971.
> First major surrender to own forces in the Eastern Theatre.
> But the fourth larger toast, unknown to them at that time, was reserved for surrender at Dacca, which was thought unattainable. For 'Early Dacca Surrender' was made possible by Sylhet Gurkhas tying down the Pakistani Meghna River Brigade (313), in addition to 202 Pak Infantry Brigade at Sylhet from the 7th to the 15th.
> 
> The Battalion by now had three successful major operations to its credit: Atgram, Ghazipur and Sylhet. However, the degree of valour and contribution to the early creation of free Bangladesh, credit also goes to the men of the Sylhet Gurkhas, but not without a price. The cost of glory over the 27 days (20th November to 16th December) was not meagre. Thirty one (4 Officers, 3 Junior Commissioned Officers, 7 Non-Commissioned Officers and 17 Riflemen) sacrificed their lives. Ironically one officer (Major Puri) and one Rifleman (Rifleman Kanta Bir Thapa) were injured during the 1965 War also, but this time they sacrificed their lives. Another 122 (7 Officers, 2 Junior Commissioned Officers, 32 Non- Commissioned Officers and 81 Riflemen) were injured. A total of 153 casualties, including 11 Officers, constituted nearly 25 percent of the Battalion strength, out of which 55 were leaders at different levels (Officers, Junior Commissioned Officers and Non-Commissioned Officers); nearly 8 percent of the Battalion strength. This was the leadership and lead provided by Company, Platoon and Section Commanders. Sylhet is the Battle Honour of The Sylhet Gurkhas and East Pakistan as Theatre Honour and nobody can deny that Heliborne Operations by Sylhet Gurkhas lead to early surrender at Dacca in December 1971.
> 
> 
> 
> _Brigadier Kaul was Assault Company Commander (D Company) during the infiltration Khukri attack at Atgram and Forward Company Commander during the Battle of Sylhet. He was seriously injured during the battle of Sylhet._




Interestingly Indian photographs/paintings of the surrender ceremony cuts out the image of our rep, Gp Capt Khandokar.

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## bongbang

asad71 said:


> Interestingly Indian photographs/paintings of the surrender ceremony cuts out the image of our rep, Gp Capt Khandokar.

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## monitor

asad71 said:


> The link doesn't open. Rapes / killings were committed by PA and the locally raised irregulars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly Indian photographs/paintings of the surrender ceremony cuts out the image of our rep, Gp Capt Khandokar.


 they wanted to show its a purely India Pakistan war.


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## Rajput_Pakistani

monitor said:


> *Heliborne Operations by Sylhet Gorkhas Leads to Early Surrender at Dacca*
> Brigadier Rattan Kaul
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brigadier Rattan Kaul chronicles the operations carried out by the Sylhet Gurkhas (4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force)) during the war in 1971 and how it led to the surrender of Dacca.
> 
> With the turmoil in (then) East Pakistan, the arrest of Sheikh Mujib-u-Rehman and declaration of Martial Law, by the end of April 1971, it had became evident that Indian Army would be required to prepare for war against East Pakistan. Accordingly, Eastern Command was directed to start planning for the operations. By the end of May 1971, a plan formulated at Eastern Command level enumerated an offensive along three major thrust lines. These were:
> 
> 
> II Corps (4 and 9 Divisions) as Western Thrust towards Jessore
> North-eastern thrust by part of XXIII Corps (20 Mountain Division and couple of brigades from Army reserves) towards Dinajpur/Bogra
> Eastern thrust by IV Corps (8 (less a brigade), 57 and 23 Mountain Divisions).
> The plan at this stage talked of Dacca as the final objective, but neither direction nor force level/formation was defined. By July 1971, at Army Headquarters level, a broad framework of a plan was made, which enumerated blockade and isolation of East Pakistan, segmenting Pakistani defences to prevent withdrawal or reinforcements and finally bypass fixed defences and secure important communication centres.* Dacca, in these deliberations, was not defined as an objective*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Map showing river basins of Bangladesh (then East Pakistan)*
> 
> In August, then COAS General, later Field Marshal SHFJ Manekshaw, accompanied by then DGMO Major General K K Singh, visited the Headquarters of Eastern Command to discuss the plan. The team, as well as Army Commander, Lieutenant General J S Aurora, were sceptical about capturing Dacca within the time frame of a short war and felt that the orthodox techniques and shortage of bridging equipment would make Dacca unattainable. Finally, Khulna {II Corps} and Chittagong {IV Corps} were made terminal objectives, without mention of Dacca. At a later stage, the Navy agreed to blockade Chittagong in support of IV Corps operations. As a result of further discussions, a modified plan emerged. In this plan, objectives were divergent; II Corps to contact Padma River, XXIII Corps was to slice Hilli-Gaibanda Neck. Northern thrust of 101 Comn Zone was to be given a brigade (59), tentatively allocated a battalion para drop and the formation was to advance towards Jamalpur/Mymensingh/Tangail and had only River Brahmputra (500 metres wide) to cross to reach centre of then East Pakistan. IV Corps was to contact Meghna River and contain Sylhet. Even at this stage, no clear directives were given for capture of Dacca. However, the plan talked about regrouping of the forces after II Corps reaching Goalunda Ghat on Padma River, XXIII Corps reaching the confluence of Ganga and Brahmaputra called Hilli-Gaibanda Neck, while IV Corps was not expected to go beyond Meghna River and much was not expected of 101 Comn Zone. On 16th August, Army Headquarters issued Operation Instruction based on which Eastern Command issued instructions for objectives for each thrust. Even at this stage, Dacca was not mentioned in any of them. In this plan, the two formations that could reach Dacca were 101 Comn Zone and IV Corps, once it crossed Meghna River. But this was not defined. By this time, Mukhti Bahini forces, grouped under various sectors, were operative. Their results were as expected, but in spite of their best efforts, lacked the ability to hold ground for longer period(s). By the end of September and beginning of October, even Indian Army sub units went inside the East Pakistan territory in support of Mukhti Bahini operations; like Sarkar Bazar, Charkhai- Sylhet, Banga etc. These forays were more of harassment tasks, rather than contributing to the objectives enumerated in the Eastern Command plan. By the end of November, own troops had launched so called 'Knife Thrusts', aiming at attacking Pakistani regular troop positions; to capture territory and cause attrition. Dhalai, Atgram, Zakiganj etc. were some of such actions, which were successfully undertaken prior to declaration of war on 3rd December 1971. By this time, most of the formations had captured areas, which nearly positioned them ahead of their launch pads and many of these places were either their initial objectives or closer to them.
> 
> From this point onwards, this paper will deal with the main topic as to how Dacca became the terminal objective, ground and heliborne operations leading to the surrender at Dacca; mainly discussing the operations of 101 Comn Zone and IV Corps, which finally knocked on the doors of Dacca Cantonment. 101 Comn Zone had its objectives as Jamalpur/Jaidevpur with possible para drop at Tangail, to pose a threat from Northern direction. No time line was given to them and initial thrusts of this force, duly supported by Mukhti Bahini, progressed satisfactorily. After 9th December, an additional brigade (167) was given to them. IV Corps, as per plans, had planned to capture Comilla by D + 7, secure Meghna River Line by D + 18, secure approaches to Sylhet and if possible capture Sylhet (No time frame was given for the capture of Sylhet. D Day being the day War breaks out/offensive is launched). Akhaura was to be captured for the security of Agartala and finally Chittagong was to be isolated/ captured after completion of all other tasks. As the operations progressed in the 8 Mountain Division sector, 81 Mountain Brigade captured Shamsher Nagar Airfield, 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) captured Gazipur on the night of 4/5 December, after an attack the night before by 6 Rajput had failed. By 6th December morning, 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) had secured the Kalaura rail head leading to Sylhet.
> 
> On the evening of 6th December, IV Corps was directed by Eastern Command to launch Heliborne Operation at Sylhet on the next day (7th December). This heliborne operation was planned and launched on the presumption and information that troops from Sylhet had withdrawn, various axes leading to Sylhet secured and there would be no or nominal resistance to the heliborne force. Also, satellite reconnaissance from a friendly country had revealed that Sylhet was unoccupied. However, confirmed and corroborated information was that 22 Baluch had prematurely withdrawn from Kalaura, after an attack on Gazipur by 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force), to Sylhet, which was indicative enough that Sylhet was occupied _ab-initio_ by reasonable strength and further strengthened. Actually at Eastern Command a Pakistani message from Dacca to Pakistani 14 Infantry Division was intercepted, which gave orders to the division to move a brigade of the division to Meghna River. The assessment at Eastern Command level was that the only brigade which could be withdrawn from the Pakistani 14 Infantry Division had to be from Sylhet proper, giving an assessment that Sylhet was or would soon be vacated. At IV Corps Headquarters, Corps Commander Lieutenant General Sagat Singh, never mentioning about the directive of the Eastern Command, gave the impression that Sylhet Garrison wanted to surrender and hence a Heliborne Operation by a Battalion, which would be walk-in for the Battalion. The Corps Commander had discussions with Major General K. V. Krishna Rao, GOC 8 Mountain Division, and it was decided to launch 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) for the operation. As per General Rao, in spite of heavy casualties in two successful attacks at Atgram and Gazipur, "It was the best battalion in my Division. It has great pride and esprit de corps; a feeling that nothing will deter and are prepared to make any sacrifice." Based on these inputs, the first reconnaissance flight to Sylhet was carried out on the morning of 7th December at about 1000 hours, when Commander 59 Mountain Brigade Brigadier C. A. Quinn, Group Captain Chandan Singh Commander 6 TAC, 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) Commanding Officer Lieutenant Colonel A. B. Harolikar, and Wing Commander R. S. Sandhu flew over Sylhet. No fire was drawn, reinforcing the idea that Sylhet was vacated.
> 
> With a plethora of intelligence information, confidence at higher level was that Sylhet was vacated. Two companies under a Commanding Officer took off from Kalaura and landed at Mirpara on the outskirts of Sylhet, at 3 PM on 7th December 1971. The landing was contested by Pakistani troops, heavy MMG fire and artillery shells, indicating that Sylhet was occupied and well defended. The landing troops held ground in spite of strong reaction and counter attacks. There were no further flights on 7th December and the balance of the Battalion build up happened only on the next morning (8th) and adopted wider deployment to give the impression of a larger force having landed. The media added further inputs by reporting that a brigade had been heli-landed at Sylhet.
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> *Heli landing Sylhet - 7th December 1971*
> 
> (Click on image to enlarge)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> *Surrender Ceremony - 16th Dec. 1971, 4 PM*
> 
> (Click on image to enlarge)
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> On 8th December, the forward company commander of the heliborne force (Major Kaul) switched on his radio set and picked up a clear conversation of 313 Infantry Brigade having been in Sylhet and planning a counter attack on the heli-landed force. Due to wider deployment adopted by the Battalion, the Pakistanis were under the impression that a full brigade had landed and they were trying to regain some of the area with this counter attack. To quote Commanding Officer Lieutenant Colonel A. B. Harolikar (in the book, _Bravest of the Brave_): "From a wireless transmission intercepted by Major Kaul, it was clear that 313 Infantry Brigade had arrived in Sylhet on 7th December and along with 202 Infantry Brigade, were planning an attack (with five companies) on Alfa (Major Rana) and Delta (Major Kaul) Companies, which were posing a serious threat to the bridge, besides also being a road block."
> 
> 
> 
> ​*Lt. Gen J. S. Aurora with Hav. Dil Bahadur Chettri, MVC, and Lt Col A. B. Harolikar, MVC, after the war.*
> 
> (Click on image to enlarge)
> 
> The information of the radio intercept was duly passed on to the higher formations. In the Pakistani plans, Pakistani Brigade (313) was meant to defend crossings over Meghna River, Coronation Bridge and approach to Dacca. Instead this brigade withdrew to Sylhet, on orders of the GOC Pakistani 14 Infantry Division (Qazi Majid) and 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) had now to tackle two brigades (202 and 313). The higher thinking on receipt of this information from the Battalion can be best summed up in the words of Lieutenant General JFR Jacob, PVSM (in the book, _Birth of a Nation_): "On 7th December, 4/5 Gorkha Rifles of 59 Mountain Brigade had been lifted by helicopters to the South-East of Sylhet across the Surma River. The Pakistanis had evacuated the civilian population from Sylhet and fortified the town. The Pakistani 202 Infantry Brigade held the defences. Pakistani 313 Infantry Brigade, ex-Maulvi Bazar, joined the Sylhet Garrison, bringing the strength up to six battalions, one regiment of 105 mm. guns and one battery of 120 mm. mortars. The move of Pakistani 313 Infantry Brigade from Maulvi Bazar to Sylhet had not been anticipated by us at Command Headquarters and came as a surprise. We had expected this brigade to fall back to Coronation Bridge on the Meghna River, for the defence of the Meghna crossing and Dacca. Had they done so, IV Corps progress across the Meghna would have been difficult. When we got the radio intercepts confirming their move to Sylhet, we were relieved. It meant for all practical purposes, that two infantry brigades were out on a limb at Sylhet, where they could be contained and their effectiveness neutralised. After the war, whilst interrogating the General Officer Commanding (GOC) of the Pakistani division (14), Major General Abdul Quazi (Qazi Majid), I asked him why he had moved this brigade to Sylhet. He replied that he was determined that he would not let us capture Sylhet. Niazi’s fortress strategy and the divisional commanders implementation of this policy speeded up the disintegration of Pakistani defence capabilities and facilitated the capture of Dacca."
> 
> Late Lieutenant General A.A.K Niazi narrates this move as treason (in the book, _Betrayal of Pakistan_): "Within the overall defensive plan of the sector, 14 Division had been entrusted with the task of defending Narsingdi-Narayanganj Sector. They were to fall back, when ordered, from Sylhet and Ashuganj. Sylhet Brigade had come down to Maulvi Bazar. Majid (GOC 14 Infantry Division) had been given the mission to fall back on Dacca after the destruction of the Bhairab Bazar Bridge. I ordered him to fall back to Narsingdi. He regretted his inability to do so. He was specially given six ferries for the move to Dacca and the railway line was also available to him - it was later used by Indians, and his troops watched the spectacle. He could easily have reached Dacca, but he never even made (an) attempt. It appears his disobedience was part of the plan to let the East Pakistan garrison face ignominy. He knew that the defence of Dacca was vital. Still he failed to obey. I, therefore, removed him from the command of his division and put his troops under the command of 36 Division." (After the war and repatriation, Major General Qazi Majid was tried by a Court Martial for treason).
> 
> 
> 
> ​*Lt. Gen. Sagat Singh and Maj. Gen. K. V. Krishna Rao with Hav. Dil Bahadur Chettri at Sylhet*
> 
> (Click on image to enlarge)
> 
> On the morning of 9th December, on receipt of information at Command Headquarters and IV Corps, it was decided, that 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) having tied down two Pakistani Brigades at Sylhet (202 and 313), all resources must be geared to establish link up with the heliborne force. It was also appreciated that the Pakistanis had no force available to defend the Meghna crossings. What was the worry was that how far 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) could continue to hold the two brigades at Sylhet and advance to Meghna river. Lieutenant General Sagat Singh had his vision now fixed on Dacca, since the Meghna river would not be defended strongly and gave an opening towards Dacca. As per the earlier plans, contact of Meghna river by IV Corps was to be made by 21 December (D + 18 - D Day being 3rd December). At this stage, the plan of the IV Corps advance only upto the Meghna River was suddenly changed to be the first to cross the Meghna and race towards Dacca. Even at this stage, the surrender of Dacca was not envisaged. To implement this revised plan to cross the Meghna river, all helicopter resources meant for 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) were diverted on the 9th for ferrying operations of 311 Infantry Brigade and 57 Mountain Division and 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) left on its own, with no link up for next 8 days. In fact, Heliborne Operations of 4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force), now fondly called *Sylhet Gurkhas*, had tied down the brigades who would have defended Meghna/Dacca and this opened the route for an unopposed crossing of the Meghna river by IV Corps troops to enable them to pose a threat to Dacca from the Eastern Thrust Line.
> 
> 
> 
> ​*Sylhet Trophy Unveiled in 1983*
> 
> (Click on image to enlarge)
> 
> The movement of IV Corps towards Dacca gained momentum and where the plans were to contact Meghna river on D + 18 (21st December), IV Corps troops reached and crossed Meghna river much earlier (14th December). On the 14th, 101 Comn Zone was placed under command of Advance Tactical Headquarters of IV Corps, in situ, at the behest of IV Corps, who were now around Meghna river. In the meantime, GOC 101 Comn Zone (Major General G. Nagra) along with his GSO 1 (Lt. Gen. Y. M. Bammi, PVSM, AVSM), and some forces (Company 2 Para, 6 Sikh LI and Mukhtis under Brigadier Sant Singh, MVC), reached Dacca on the morning of 16th at about 10 AM and established contact with General Niazi. In fact, Major General Nagra sent a small note on the scribbling pad of his GSO 1 to Niazi for an early meeting. They knew each other when Major General Nagra was Defence Attaché in Pakistan and Niazi was a brigade commander. At about 11 AM, Lieutenant General J. F. R. Jacob arrived and met Niazi and the surrender ceremony planned for the same evening. When this was happening at Dacca, Sylhet Gurkhas (4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force)) had been inside Sylhet town for nearly 24 hours, having had the surrender ceremony completed on 15th December at 3 PM, when IV Corps troops were nowhere close to Dacca. Then, on the morning of the 16th at 9 AM, they (Sylhet Gurkhas) took the physical charge of 3 Brigadiers, 1 Colonel, 107 officers, 219 JCOs and 6190 soldiers and 39 non-combatant Pakistanis.
> 
> An analysis of the Heliborne Operations by Sylhet Gurkhas will indicate that the operation was mounted in an intelligence vacuum, in an area appreciated to be devoid of Pakistani troops. The Sylhet Gurkhas landing was opposed and not withstanding strong opposition, held ground till the two Pakistani brigades surrendered on 15th December, even before the official ceasefire. Had 313 Pakistan Infantry Brigade not moved into Sylhet, things would have been different at the theatre level. This could have been all the more different if Sylhet Gurkhas had not tied down the two brigades from the 7th to the 15th of December. Possibly, if Lieutenant General Niazi had succeeded in getting this brigade (313) to defend the Meghna river and Narsingdi, making movement of IV Corps as well as 101 Comn Zone towards Dacca difficult, the Dacca surrender may not have taken place on 16th December.
> 
> On a conservative estimate, the Heliborne Operation of Sylhet Gurkhas (4/5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force)) made it possible for Indian Army and Mukhti Bahini to reach Dacca much earlier than planned; at least by 8 days. On the 16th, when the surrender ceremony was going on at Dacca, Sylhet Gurkhas were celebrating with a toast, in honour of three fold success of the Battalion:
> 
> 
> First Ever Successful Heliborne Operation of Indian Army, which tied the two brigades from the 7th to the 15th of December.
> Surrender of two Pakistani Brigades (202 and 313) on 15th December 1971.
> First major surrender to own forces in the Eastern Theatre.
> But the fourth larger toast, unknown to them at that time, was reserved for surrender at Dacca, which was thought unattainable. For 'Early Dacca Surrender' was made possible by Sylhet Gurkhas tying down the Pakistani Meghna River Brigade (313), in addition to 202 Pak Infantry Brigade at Sylhet from the 7th to the 15th.
> 
> The Battalion by now had three successful major operations to its credit: Atgram, Ghazipur and Sylhet. However, the degree of valour and contribution to the early creation of free Bangladesh, credit also goes to the men of the Sylhet Gurkhas, but not without a price. The cost of glory over the 27 days (20th November to 16th December) was not meagre. Thirty one (4 Officers, 3 Junior Commissioned Officers, 7 Non-Commissioned Officers and 17 Riflemen) sacrificed their lives. Ironically one officer (Major Puri) and one Rifleman (Rifleman Kanta Bir Thapa) were injured during the 1965 War also, but this time they sacrificed their lives. Another 122 (7 Officers, 2 Junior Commissioned Officers, 32 Non- Commissioned Officers and 81 Riflemen) were injured. A total of 153 casualties, including 11 Officers, constituted nearly 25 percent of the Battalion strength, out of which 55 were leaders at different levels (Officers, Junior Commissioned Officers and Non-Commissioned Officers); nearly 8 percent of the Battalion strength. This was the leadership and lead provided by Company, Platoon and Section Commanders. Sylhet is the Battle Honour of The Sylhet Gurkhas and East Pakistan as Theatre Honour and nobody can deny that Heliborne Operations by Sylhet Gurkhas lead to early surrender at Dacca in December 1971.
> 
> 
> 
> _Brigadier Kaul was Assault Company Commander (D Company) during the infiltration Khukri attack at Atgram and Forward Company Commander during the Battle of Sylhet. He was seriously injured during the battle of Sylhet._


About Sylhet operations:

The Battle of Sylhet Fortress 1971 War


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## bongbang

Bhutto had a role in Mujib's Assassination. Pakistani agents had role in destabilizing Bangladesh in 1975. Mind changing book: Zulfi Bhutto of Pakistan: His Life and Times: Stanley Wolpert

Interesting Chapters 8,9 and 13. To understand the situation from other side in 1971. How they hoped they will get back Bangladesh within 5 to 10 years.

Page 248,256, Chapter: From people to third world leader












zulfi bhutto - search (Open Library)

@syedali73

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## Jf Thunder

bongbang said:


> Bhutto had a role in Mujib's Assassination. Pakistani agents had role in destabilizing Bangladesh in 1975. Mind changing book: Zulfi Bhutto of Pakistan: His Life and Times: Stanley Wolpert
> 
> Interesting Chapters 8,9 and 13. To understand the situation from other side in 1971. How they hoped they will get back Bangladesh within 5 to 10 years.
> 
> Page 248,256, Chapter: From people to third world leader
> 
> View attachment 236380
> 
> 
> View attachment 236381
> 
> 
> 
> zulfi bhutto - search (Open Library)
> 
> @syedali73


wow


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## Md Akmal

asad71 said:


> Jai Hind of Netaji/INA during WW II.Jiye Sind of GM Syed just after Partition. BD Zindabad was first uttered by Maj Dalim while announcing the death of SM in the coup.Mushtaq,Zia, Ershad and BNP/BKZ continued this. In fact Joy Bangla is not used by anyone except BAL.Somehow people have not accepted this slogan finding Zindabad closer to the heart.



@ The "Joy Bangla", slogan was not created by Awami Leaque rather it was invented back in 1906 once Bengal was partitioned by the British.

@ The Hindus could not accept the partition of Bengal. They started agitation, cultural revolution (not like Chinese cultural revolution) and finally terrorism acts against this partition. During these days it was first heard the slogan of :"Joy Bangla" .

@ In those days whenever any terror act was successful, the people used to shout "Joy Bangla".

@ "Tura sob joyer dhono kor', "ebar tur mora gange ban utheche joy ma bole ", etc.

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## Apprentice

asad71 said:


> The link doesn't open. Rapes / killings were committed by PA and the locally raised irregulars.



What do you believe was the true extent of the rape? And who was more involved, the PA or razakars?



Md Akmal said:


> @ The "Joy Bangla", slogan was not created by Awami Leaque rather it was invented back in 1906 once Bengal was partitioned by the British.
> 
> @ The Hindus could not accept the partition of Bengal. They started agitation, cultural revolution (not like Chinese cultural revolution) and finally terrorism acts against this partition. During these days it was first heard the slogan of :"Joy Bangla" .
> 
> @ In those days whenever any terror act was successful, the people used to shout "Joy Bangla".
> 
> @ "Tura sob joyer dhono kor', "ebar tur mora gange ban utheche joy ma bole ", etc.



I love your posts. I have been reading up abt this '71 debacle for quite a bit and I have been asking Bengali friends and reading books about the role of secularists, Hindus and communists in propagating hatred between the Muslims of both wings of Pakistan.Because in Pakistani textbooks there is a great deal of blame laid on the Hindu professors in East Pakistan and I want know if the blame is historically accurate or not. How much truth and how much fiction do you believe is in that charge about Hindu professors and teachers brainwashing Muslims in East Pakistan?

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## asad71

Apprentice said:


> What do you believe was the true extent of the rape? And who was more involved, the PA or razakars?
> 
> 
> 
> I love your posts. I have been reading up abt this '71 debacle for quite a bit and I have been asking Bengali friends and reading books about the role of secularists, Hindus and communists in propagating hatred between the Muslims of both wings of Pakistan.Because in Pakistani textbooks there is a great deal of blame laid on the Hindu professors in East Pakistan and I want know if the blame is historically accurate or not. How much truth and how much fiction do you believe is in that charge about Hindu professors and teachers brainwashing Muslims in East Pakistan?



1.Rape is most unfortunately an inevitable collateral of warfare. Perhaps German women more than any in history suffered rape by the Red Army soldiers. However, civilized societies generally do not like to remember this or keep discussing this. In BD the Indian lobby keeps the nation reminding this and other atrocities to keep BD frozen in 1971 and snap Bengali Muslims umbilical chord with the Ummah.
2. No military commander would allow rapes by his soldiers. Discipline, command channel and finally the will / ability to fight would be adversely affected. However, exercise of command and maintaining discipline becomes casualty when troops are scattered all over in isolated locations under junior leaders. The other case is that of EPCAF and W Pak Police. Obviously they cared less for discipline or the job at hand.
3. Razakars themselves were not above rapes. In fact the famous pictures of Kader Siddiqui bayoneting Razakars were Bihari Razakars apprehended raping Bihari women.
4. But the rapes could most be blamed on Peace Committee members. They would themselves rape local Hindu girls and take them often to local army / EPCAF commander to earn favor.
5. We must remember Eastern Command in 1971 was commanded by an animal who himself would devote more time in womanizing than the conduct of war. He would often speak out in favor of rapes during meetings / visits. And all were operating under a scoundrel called Yahya whose days and nights were spent in drinking and womanizing when his armed forces were fighting a war. And didn't he call himself the Sadr of an Islamic Republic?

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## Md Akmal

Apprentice said:


> What do you believe was the true extent of the rape? And who was more involved, the PA or razakars?
> 
> 
> 
> I love your posts. I have been reading up abt this '71 debacle for quite a bit and I have been asking Bengali friends and reading books about the role of secularists, Hindus and communists in propagating hatred between the Muslims of both wings of Pakistan.Because in Pakistani textbooks there is a great deal of blame laid on the Hindu professors in East Pakistan and I want know if the blame is historically accurate or not. How much truth and how much fiction do you believe is in that charge about Hindu professors and teachers brainwashing Muslims in East Pakistan?



@ One thing you have to realize that Bengal came under British subjugation just after the Battle of Pallassy in 1757 and since than Calcatta (Bengal) was the capital city of British India till 1911. So, the Bengalise specially the Hindus were politically were much more matured than other people of India specially the Punjab and NWFP. As because, these areas came under British subjugation much later (1846), by this time the people of Eastern Region became more fast and westernize.

@ Once suddenly, in early thirties Jinnah gave his famous "Two Nation Theory ", it was quickly accepted by the Bengali Muslims and thus Pakistan was created. This was not at all accepted by the Bengali Babu's(Hindus). However, the low caste Hindus of East Bengal supported the cause of Pakistan and during that period all reserve 5 seats of Tafshery Federation (an Hindu low caste Political Party) joined in favour of Pakistan. But after the creation of Pakistan soon majority of them fled to India. During the partition near about 50 lacs of Hindus migrated to India. Some 23 lacs of Behares including other non-Bengalise came from India. Near about 25 to 30 lacs of Bengali Muslims came from West Bengal, Assam & Tripura.

@ Now, answer to your question regarding the role of Hindu Teachers, wait a bit, let me think ? First, let me tell you a story which I heard from my father and grand father. My grand father was a minor pass (Class-V) and he was a "Munshi" means he used to lead the "Jumma" prayer. He used to work with one 'Marwari" and was a cashier there. He used to do Congress Party. My father used to read in class nine and do the student politics of Muslim Leaque and busy in "Nara-i-Takbir, Allah Ho Akbar, Pakistan Zindabad, Larke Lenge Pakistan". My father used to wear a simple Pajama and shirt and every day goes to school with some books in one hand. During those days before partition (1946), in our Thana, the Dargo Babu, was a Hindu, Post Master was a Hindu, School Master was Hindu, Station Master was Hindu and the civil administration was also Hindu and so on. The local Zaminders were also Hindu. One day, my father was going to school at around 9 PM. On the way one respectable person named Shotish Babu was seating in a chair and gossiping with others. Then suddenly by seeing my father he called him and said, " ei khoka tumar nam ki ? " My father replied quickly, " Ji agge, Mohd Abdul Latif. "Na na tumar nam Sri Mohd Abdul Latif ", " Ki nam tumar, je agge Sri ----". " Tumi kothai puro ? Ji ei high school le, class ninee ". Then he ordered my father to go to meet the office clerk and amend the name pre-fixing Sri. In the next morning, the master called Sri Mofd Abdul Latif, my father replied, "agge hajir sir ". Once, my father was narrating that before the election date of 1946, as he was involved in Muslim student politics he was forcefully transferred to another school. On the election day inside the election both there were two tables. One at the centre where a big ballot box was placed written in English & Bengali. " Shommilitu Hindu Musalmander jonno" means "For joint Hindu Muslim " and at the corner table another small ballot box was placed and written on it, " shudhu mattro musalmander jonno" means "Only for Muslims".
After the election result most of the Hindus fled away and it was difficult to run the administration.

@ Even after Hindus, migrated to India still many teachers remained and they played a vital in political motivation. In those day most of educated Hindus used to do Communist Party and Congress Party. Once Pakistan was created the members of Muslim Leaque were too busy to celebrate the achievement of Pakistan but bulk of the Hindus both from East & West Bengal were indulged in conspiracy which members of ML never realize. In 1949, "Muslim Awami Leaque" was created. Soon majority of Hindus specially the members of Communist Party and Congress joined Awami Leaque and delete the name "Muslim" and it renamed as "Awami Leaque".

@ Another problem was many MP's of Muslim Leaque came to East Bengal but they did not had own constituency in East Bengal so, soon they were rooted out from politics. Now, the Awami Leaquer in one hand used to get lot of money from India and at the same the elite Business Class (22 rich family of Pakistan) used to give huge amount of money to Awami Leaque including Sk Mujib with the hope of ethnic protection. Sk Mujib himself was a CEO of one Insurance Company of some Haroon(one of the rich family). Sk Mujib used to seat in that Insurance Company and do politics. The same building/office Awami Leaque is still holding and it is the head office of Awami Leaque.

@ " Bhai oshwakt tu brainwash sab ka ho gia tha ! Kia Pakistan ke logo ka brain wash nahi howa tha ? Pakistan tu suraf Kashmir ka pagal tha ? Pakistan ki har tagat Kashmir ke lia kharach kia gia tha, magar hakikat me kia mila ????"

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## monitor

asad71 said:


> In fact the famous pictures of Kader Siddiqui bayoneting Razakars were Bihari Razakars apprehended raping Bihari




Interesting if true but so far I Cam recall they were bangali


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## asad71

_*"Main iss haramzada ko Shakarparian Pahari par fansi du'nga."
- Gen Ziaul Huq
ZAB was hanged for his '71 role - not for assassinating Kasuri.*_

===================

*Fols from Gen Afzal Muzzafar ex Corps Comd n QMG.*

UK through the British Council is making a mockery of Pakistan.
I have got it verified today and disgustingly it is true.
It is amazing that the British Council's prescribed and printed curriculum for 'O/A' levels has in history part on Pakistan reflect that Pakistan has lost 65 & 71 Wars. This has not been either noticed or glossed over by everybody in Pakistan. I am attaching the details below.


This is for O level Pakistan. The books are written by British writers these state that Pakistan lost these two wars.
It is indeed a matter of great concern that we are accepting all the above British sponsored humiliation and educating out future generations with utter disregard towards our country.


Whereas, we could not achieve our objectives in 1965 War, but we were able to give a sound beating to the Indians. 1971 War I consider that ZA Bhutto was instrumental - when he tore the Poland Resolution which had already been agreed by the Indians through the offices of UN.*I know about this fact because Gen Rao Farman Ali my father in law had drafted and got its approval from the Indian side while being Advisor to Governor of East Pakistan. The resolution stated "Immediate cease fire, withdrawal of forces to the international borders and handing over of power to the elected reps ie Mujeeb ur Rehman".*This did not suit Mr ZA Bhutto and tore the said resolution- to the ultimate disgrace and humiliation of the Armed Forces of Pakistan. The saga did not end there, he ZAB then requested Indira Ghandhi to keep the prisoners for 2.5 years, so that he can prepare grounds through further humiliation of Armed Forces in this part of Pakistan; which he mercilessly launched/executed and achieved his mission. The POWs had by then also lost the steam to raise the question of fiasco of Poland Resolution.


Look at the TOR's given to Hamood ur Rehman commission - "Determine the Causes of Military defeat in Erstwhile East Pakistan; instead of "Determine the causes of fall of East Pakistan". His ZAB's treacherous role goes back in Aug 1965 briefing in Ayub Hall. ZAB had very recently come back from a visit of China. During the discussions, int reports suggested that India was likely to attk on the main borders - especially Lahore and Sialkot. FM Ayub asked ZAB that what have our friends (China) told you. His answer was that the our friends have assured me that India is not likely to attk Pakistan and if the do we will reciprocate by attk India. This WAS A TOTAL AND BLATANT LIE MADE BY ZAB. As after the 1965 War when our Air & Naval Chiefs visited China, and made a remark that Indian attk was a complete surprise to us; the Chinese Officials were completely confused with this remark. They said that in Aug 65 we had categorically told your FM ZAB, that our int reports clearly suggest that India is likely to attk Pakistan in 1st/2nd week of Sep 65; in case they do we (China) would not be able to help you through physical action as we already have had a war with India in 1962.

Foregoing in view, I would request the auths concerned to undertake immediate and effective appropriate steps, to get this very serious issue, which undermines Pakistan in the minds of our children is redressed.
The books written by British writers state that 65 war was fought over Kashmir. Operation Gibraltar was unsuccessful. We fought for 17 days. Both parties wanted to cease fire. US embargo on Pakistan hurt us more. The Tashkent declaration made all parties return all won land. It is taught with these facts. At the end of the day whatever we had won, we lost it on the bargaining table.


Who won in 1971? We didn't win in 1965 either realistically, though successfully defended Lahore and Sialkot.
You can change the grades of these enemies of Pakistan. But ZAB humiliated Ayub derailed his economic reforms and sat on the disintegration of Pakistan. But Zia destroyed the entire fiber of this country as a nation. The seed he has sworn we shall continue to reap for decades to come. Any way it's history that we have lived to see. Let's see the lessons we have learnt.

------
PA Ord Forum

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## Joe Shearer

asad71 said:


> _*"Main iss haramzada ko Shakarparian Pahari par fansi du'nga."
> - Gen Ziaul Huq
> ZAB was hanged for his '71 role - not for assassinating Kasuri.*_
> 
> ===================
> 
> *Fols from Gen Afzal Muzzafar ex Corps Comd n QMG.*
> 
> UK through the British Council is making a mockery of Pakistan.
> I have got it verified today and disgustingly it is true.
> It is amazing that the British Council's prescribed and printed curriculum for 'O/A' levels has in history part on Pakistan reflect that Pakistan has lost 65 & 71 Wars. This has not been either noticed or glossed over by everybody in Pakistan. I am attaching the details below.
> 
> 
> This is for O level Pakistan. The books are written by British writers these state that Pakistan lost these two wars.
> It is indeed a matter of great concern that we are accepting all the above British sponsored humiliation and educating out future generations with utter disregard towards our country.
> 
> 
> Whereas, we could not achieve our objectives in 1965 War, but we were able to give a sound beating to the Indians. 1971 War I consider that ZA Bhutto was instrumental - when he tore the Poland Resolution which had already been agreed by the Indians through the offices of UN.*I know about this fact because Gen Rao Farman Ali my father in law had drafted and got its approval from the Indian side while being Advisor to Governor of East Pakistan. The resolution stated "Immediate cease fire, withdrawal of forces to the international borders and handing over of power to the elected reps ie Mujeeb ur Rehman".*This did not suit Mr ZA Bhutto and tore the said resolution- to the ultimate disgrace and humiliation of the Armed Forces of Pakistan. The saga did not end there, he ZAB then requested Indira Ghandhi to keep the prisoners for 2.5 years, so that he can prepare grounds through further humiliation of Armed Forces in this part of Pakistan; which he mercilessly launched/executed and achieved his mission. The POWs had by then also lost the steam to raise the question of fiasco of Poland Resolution.
> 
> 
> Look at the TOR's given to Hamood ur Rehman commission - "Determine the Causes of Military defeat in Erstwhile East Pakistan; instead of "Determine the causes of fall of East Pakistan". His ZAB's treacherous role goes back in Aug 1965 briefing in Ayub Hall. ZAB had very recently come back from a visit of China. During the discussions, int reports suggested that India was likely to attk on the main borders - especially Lahore and Sialkot. FM Ayub asked ZAB that what have our friends (China) told you. His answer was that the our friends have assured me that India is not likely to attk Pakistan and if the do we will reciprocate by attk India. This WAS A TOTAL AND BLATANT LIE MADE BY ZAB. As after the 1965 War when our Air & Naval Chiefs visited China, and made a remark that Indian attk was a complete surprise to us; the Chinese Officials were completely confused with this remark. They said that in Aug 65 we had categorically told your FM ZAB, that our int reports clearly suggest that India is likely to attk Pakistan in 1st/2nd week of Sep 65; in case they do we (China) would not be able to help you through physical action as we already have had a war with India in 1962.
> 
> Foregoing in view, I would request the auths concerned to undertake immediate and effective appropriate steps, to get this very serious issue, which undermines Pakistan in the minds of our children is redressed.
> The books written by British writers state that 65 war was fought over Kashmir. Operation Gibraltar was unsuccessful. We fought for 17 days. Both parties wanted to cease fire. US embargo on Pakistan hurt us more. The Tashkent declaration made all parties return all won land. It is taught with these facts. At the end of the day whatever we had won, we lost it on the bargaining table.
> 
> 
> Who won in 1971? We didn't win in 1965 either realistically, though successfully defended Lahore and Sialkot.
> You can change the grades of these enemies of Pakistan. But ZAB humiliated Ayub derailed his economic reforms and sat on the disintegration of Pakistan. But Zia destroyed the entire fiber of this country as a nation. The seed he has sworn we shall continue to reap for decades to come. Any way it's history that we have lived to see. Let's see the lessons we have learnt.
> 
> ------
> PA Ord Forum



I have only one comment to make: it is this sort of hallucination by the senior Pakistani military commanders that is responsible for the instant inclination of an average Pakistani citizen to believe the most bizarre conspiracy theories. The rot started at the top.

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## Arefin007

Okay yeah but East Paks didn't want independence. Jamaat, Razakars and our Bihari brothers did all the hard work against Indian Mukti terrorists while Pak army was busy ogling at women. Pak Army was more interested in securing West Pak which is why East Pak had to suffer ignominous defeat at the hands of Indians while West Pak remained safe and secure. So it was really sad day for us while West Pak didn't care much. Now India's tryin' to attack us and we don't even have nukes to defend ourselves.


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## Anubis

Arefin007 said:


> *Okay yeah but East Paks didn't want independence*. Jamaat, Razakars and our Bihari brothers did all the hard work against Indian Mukti terrorists while Pak army was busy ogling at women. Pak Army was more interested in securing West Pak which is why East Pak had to suffer ignominous defeat at the hands of Indians while West Pak remained safe and secure. So it was really sad day for us while West Pak didn't care much. Now India's tryin' to attack us and we don't even have nukes to defend ourselves.


We have another think tank in the making here....give this guy a title before he gets fed with all us dalals here and runs away.

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## Arefin007

Anubis said:


> We have another think tank in the making here....give this guy a title before he gets fed with all us dalals here and runs away.


Hahha


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## Homo Sapiens

Arefin007 said:


> Okay yeah but East Paks didn't want independence. Jamaat, Razakars and our Bihari brothers did all the hard work against Indian Mukti terrorists while Pak army was busy ogling at women. Pak Army was more interested in securing West Pak which is why East Pak had to suffer ignominous defeat at the hands of Indians while West Pak remained safe and secure. So it was really sad day for us while West Pak didn't care much. Now India's tryin' to attack us and we don't even have nukes to defend ourselves.


I think you are the product of rootless bihari rajakar.You should put pakistani flag on your avatar.Anyone who call Mukti Bahini 'terrorist' forfeit his right to use Bangladeshi flag.

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## Arefin007

Doyalbaba said:


> I think you are the product of rootless bihari rajakar yourselves.You should put pakistani flag on your avatar.Anyone who call Mukti Bahini 'terrorist' forfeit his right to use Bangladeshi flag.


Plz don't insult them through your vitriol. They are patriotic sons of soil who fought hard for their country so nothing to be ashamed of I am proud of my forefather's contributions to Pakistan They remained faithful despite all odds so we should be proud of them. Stop being hypocrite coz if anyone tries to break up Bangladesh you too would fight till death to keep your country intact, and at least not side with the enemy. You should be ashamed of yourselves for targeting our Bihari brothers whose only fault was fighting to protect Pakistan. I am ashamed to call you my countryman


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## Homo Sapiens

Arefin007 said:


> Stop being hypocrite coz if anyone tries to break up Bangladesh you too would fight till death to keep your country intact, and at least not side with the enemy


Pakistan was never our country.East and west pakistan was two country in all sense glued togather through unnatural means.


Arefin007 said:


> They are patriotic sons of soil who fought hard for their country so nothing to be ashamed of I am proud of my forefather's contributions to Pakistan They remained faithful despite all odds so we should be proud of them.


Your rajakar forefather continued to lick the punjabi boot despite massacre and history of discrimination against East Pakistani including your forefather.I think Pak army gave your forefather a good reciprocity when they abandoned your forefather to Mukti Bahini freedom fighter to take revenge for all the marder,rape and looting done by your forefather. Your kith and keens are still living in bihari basti waiting for to be taken by their punjabi master.But alas! Pakistani consider them to be less useful than the mountain goat which Pakistani graze for surviving.

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## Anubis

Doyalbaba said:


> Pakistan was never our country.East and west pakistan was two country in all sense glued togather through unnatural means.
> 
> Your rajakar forefather continued to lick the punjabi boot despite massacre and history of discrimination against East Pakistani including your forefather.I think Pak army gave your forefather a good reciprocity when they abandoned your forefather to Mukti Bahini freedom fighter to take revenge for all the marder,rape and looting done by your forefather. Your kith and keens are still living in bihari basti to be taken by their punjabi master.But alas! Pakistani consider them to be less useful than the mountain goat which Pakistani graze for surviving.


Leave him be...you can't change people's beliefs here.

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## Arefin007

Doyalbaba said:


> Pakistan was never our country.East and west pakistan was two country in all sense glued togather through unnatural means.
> 
> Your rajakar forefather continued to lick the punjabi boot despite massacre and history of discrimination against East Pakistani including your forefather.I think Pak army gave your forefather a good reciprocity when they abandoned your forefather to Mukti Bahini freedom fighter to take revenge for all the marder,rape and looting done by your forefather. Your kith and keens are still living in bihari basti to be taken by their punjabi master.But alas! Pakistani consider them to be less useful than the mountain goat which Pakistani graze for surviving.


Hey don't insult my grandpa. That ain't s#@t

That "discrimination" thing is BS. Bengalis were never once discriminated in Pakistan. We had chief justice, PM and governor who were Bengalis. Look it up on the Internet. My grandpa was senior lieutenant in the Punjab regiment, discrimination LOL. Always remember that Bengal was only one of the many provinces of Pakistan, you can't demand every damn thing for a single ethnic group. That's just selfish blimey. Pre-1971 Pakistan was five times the size of our country, in which we had visa free travel and manifold economic opportunities. That's your idea of suppression? 

People like you with your narrow xenophobic mindset make me sick. That disaster called Brexit was possible coz of people with your type of mentality. There are 2.5 million Bengalis still living in Pakistan, discriminated my foot. Did Pakistan kick them out? On the other hand, xenophobic folks like ya keep our Bihari and Razakar brothers like animals for the crime of fightin' for their country. Sindh has a huge mohajir population, did they kick them out. No they didn't. Coz they are not narrow minded and prejudiced like some of those folks in BD. People like you aren't fit for cosmopolitan societies. Come to Bedfordshire and see how BD and Pak families are living happily together. That might inject some sense.

And FYI, the massacre was done by Indian funded Mukti terrorist group to break Pakistan, too bad some people failed to see that. And I am proud grandson of Razakar, do what you wanna do, I don't give a s*@t.


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## Anubis

Arefin007 said:


> Hey don't insult my grandpa. That ain't s#@t
> 
> That "discrimination" thing is BS. Bengalis were never once discriminated in Pakistan. We had chief justice, PM and governor who were Bengalis. Look it up on the Internet. My grandpa was senior lieutenant in the Punjab regiment, discrimination LOL. Always remember that Bengal was only one of the many provinces of Pakistan, you can't demand every damn thing for a single ethnic group. That's just selfish blimey. Pre-1971 Pakistan was five times the size of our country, in which we had visa free travel and manifold economic opportunities. That's your idea of suppression?
> 
> People like you with your narrow xenophobic mindset make me sick. That disaster called Brexit was possible coz of people with your type of mentality. There are 2.5 million Bengalis still living in Pakistan, discriminated my foot. Did Pakistan kick them out? On the other hand, xenophobic folks like ya keep our Bihari and Razakar brothers like animals for the crime of fightin' for their country. Sindh has a huge mohajir population, did they kick them out. No they didn't. Coz they are not narrow minded and prejudiced like some of those folks in BD. People like you aren't fit for cosmopolitan societies. Come to Bedfordshire and see how BD and Pak families are living happily together. That might inject some sense.
> 
> And FYI, the massacre was done by Indian funded Mukti terrorist group to break Pakistan, too bad some people failed to see that. And I am proud grandson of Razakar, do what you wanna do, I don't give a s*@t.


If you so believe in the united Pakistan concept why fly the flag of a country that is the anti-thesis of that concept? The red and green flag is a slap on your grand father's face...I am glad the grandson of a proud Razakar is literally pissing on everything he stood for...keep flying that flag high while your grandfather cringes in his grave.

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## Homo Sapiens

Arefin007 said:


> Hey don't insult my grandpa. That ain't s#@t
> 
> That "discrimination" thing is BS. Bengalis were never once discriminated in Pakistan. We had chief justice, PM and governor who were Bengalis. Look it up on the Internet. My grandpa was senior lieutenant in the Punjab regiment, discrimination LOL. Always remember that Bengal was only one of the many provinces of Pakistan, you can't demand every damn thing for a single ethnic group. That's just selfish blimey. Pre-1971 Pakistan was five times the size of our country, in which we had visa free travel and manifold economic opportunities. That's your idea of suppression?
> 
> People like you with your narrow xenophobic mindset make me sick. That disaster called Brexit was possible coz of people with your type of mentality. There are 2.5 million Bengalis still living in Pakistan, discriminated my foot. Did Pakistan kick them out? On the other hand, xenophobic folks like ya keep our Bihari and Razakar brothers like animals for the crime of fightin' for their country. Sindh has a huge mohajir population, did they kick them out. No they didn't. Coz they are not narrow minded and prejudiced like some of those folks in BD. People like you aren't fit for cosmopolitan societies. Come to Bedfordshire and see how BD and Pak families are living happily together. That might inject some sense.
> 
> And FYI, the massacre was done by Indian funded Mukti terrorist group to break Pakistan, too bad some people failed to see that. And I am proud grandson of Razakar, do what you wanna do, I don't give a s*@t.


I am not going to waste my time on you.Descendant of snake will always remain snake.

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## Arefin007

Doyalbaba said:


> I am not going to waste my time on you.Descendant of snake will always remain snake.


Same to you



Anubis said:


> If you so believe in the united Pakistan concept why fly the flag of a country that is the anti-thesis of that concept? The red and green flag is a slap on your grand father's face...I am glad the grandson of a proud Razakar is literally pissing on everything he stood for...keep flying that flag high while your grandfather cringes in his grave.


Coz unfortunately I am Bangladeshi and can't claim Pakistani citizenship now


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## Anubis

Arefin007 said:


> Same to you
> 
> 
> Coz unfortunately I am Bangladeshi and can't claim Pakistani citizenship now


Well if you are a British citizen you are not a Bangladeshi citizen....and you can denounce your citizenship anytime...ant on this forum the country flag is not necessarily which country you originate from rather which country or which country's interests you represent....most Indians living in foreign countries are not Indian citizens here....there is a Vietnamese member who represents the US...and there are people who do not fly any flag at all...unless you want to make the rest of the Bangladeshis happy by disrespecting the memory of your grandfather please feel free to remove the flag...or I am always here to remind you how with every single post you are taking a dump on your grandfather's ideals.


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## Arefin007

Anubis said:


> Well if you are a British citizen you are not a Bangladeshi citizen....and you can denounce your citizenship anytime...ant on this forum the country flag is not necessarily which country you originate from rather which country or which country's interests you represent....most Indians living in foreign countries are not Indian citizens here....there is a Vietnamese member who represents the US...and there are people who do not fly any flag at all...unless you want to make the rest of the Bangladeshis happy by disrespecting the memory of your grandfather please feel free to remove the flag...or I am always here to remind you how with every single post you are taking a dump on your grandfather's ideals.


Stop buggin' me over a freakin' flag. I am well within my rights to express my views here and if you can't digest it take hazmola.

You can't dictate to me what I should or shouldn't do here just coz you don't agree with me. I represent those patriotic Bengalis whose voices have been muzzled by Awami gov and who are getting shaheed coz of political vendetta and India lobbying. I'll continue to speak for them and if you don't like it fine don't but stop forcing your venomous pseudonationalism on me coz that's not me. I believe in Ummah ie Muslims are my brothers and sisters so you can't force me to do anything Remember we are very resilient


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## Anubis

Arefin007 said:


> Stop buggin' me over a freakin' flag. I am well within my rights to express my views here and if you can't digest it take hazmola.
> 
> You can't dictate to me what I should or shouldn't do here just coz you don't agree with me. I represent those patriotic Bengalis whose voices have been muzzled by Awami gov and who are getting shaheed coz of political vendetta and India lobbying. I'll continue to speak for them and if you don't like it fine don't but stop forcing your venomous pseudonationalism on me coz that's not me. I believe in Ummah ie Muslims are my brothers and sisters so you can't force me to do anything Remember we are very resilient


I am not dictating you to do anything...this is simply my way of thanking you for slapping your dead grandfather's face on behalf of the Bengali nation....fly the flag proud and keep making sure the agony your grandfather is in finding out what a disappointment his grandson has turned out to be...this little pain will be a nice addition to the agony of hellfire he is in right now for aiding the genocide of millions of people.


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## Arefin007

Anubis said:


> I am not dictating you to do anything...this is simply my way of thanking you for slapping your dead grandfather's face on behalf of the Bengali nation....fly the flag proud and keep making sure the agony your grandfather is in finding out what a disappointment his grandson has turned out to be...this little pain will be a nice addition to the agony of hellfire he is in right now for aiding the genocide of millions of people.


Lol it was Mukti Bahini terrorists who committed genocide while Razakars and Bihari brothers were busy defending our country okay so stop spreadin' BS. Also stop spewing venom on my grandpa he was proud Pakistani Bengalee so don't insult him plz I'm gettin' angry now. 

Mukti Bahini were terrorists okay so they had to die coz they were killing innocent people. And yes I will have whatever flag on my profile none of your business mind your own I represent true Bengalees who remained faithful to their nation and got shaheed coz of narrow mentality I hate such mentality so don't spread it here. Displayin' it doesn't mean I am freakin' flyin' it so stop illogical arguments I'm telling you again we are very resilient


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## Anubis

Arefin007 said:


> Lol it was Mukti Bahini terrorists who committed genocide while Razakars and Bihari brothers were busy defending our country okay so stop spreadin' BS. Also stop spewing venom on my grandpa he was proud Pakistani Bengalee so don't insult him plz I'm gettin' angry now.
> 
> Mukti Bahini were terrorists okay so they had to die coz they were killing innocent people. And yes I will have whatever flag on my profile none of your business mind your own I represent true Bengalees who remained faithful to their nation and got shaheed coz of narrow mentality I hate such mentality so don't spread it here. Displayin' it doesn't mean I am freakin' flyin' it so stop illogical arguments I'm telling you again we are very resilient


You didn't get my point...there are Bengalees who are not Bangladeshis...you can represent who ever you want...I am just saying thank you for shitting on your traitor of a grandfather by hoisting the flag of his enemy...that's all...there's no need to get angry at me...It makes me happy that the descendant of a mass murdering S.O.B has finally seen the light and come under the right banner. Thank you again for flying the red and green flag....nothing makes a man angrier than to see his own blood betray him and fly the enemy's flag. Thank you on behalf of Bangladesh.


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## Arefin007

Anubis said:


> You didn't get my point...there are Bengalees who are not Bangladeshis...you can represent who ever you want...I am just saying thank you for shitting on your traitor of a grandfather by hoisting the flag of his enemy...that's all...there's no need to get angry at me...It makes me happy that the descendant of a mass murdering S.O.B has finally seen the light and come under the right banner. Thank you again for flying the red and green flag....nothing makes a man angrier than to see his own blood betray him and fly the enemy's flag. Thank you on behalf of Bangladesh.


You crossed line here- callin' my grandpa "traitor" and "SOB". I won't tolerate personal attacks like these. Your abuse on the deceased shows what you truly are. 
And I am repeating this third time my use of that flag is restricted to this forum only. I bother the least 'bout it in real life. So stop buggin' me about that freakin' flag coz people like you who sympathise with terrorists like Mukti Bahini are least of my concern. I am sayin' this again we are very resilient


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## Anubis

Arefin007 said:


> You crossed line here- callin' my grandpa "traitor" and "SOB". I won't tolerate personal attacks like these. Your abuse on the deceased shows what you truly are.
> And I am repeating this third time my use of that flag is restricted to this forum only. I bother the least 'bout it in real life. So stop buggin' me about that freakin' flag coz people like you who sympathise with terrorists like Mukti Bahini are least of my concern. I am sayin' this again we are very resilient


Good for you....atleast on this forum you are resilient enough to show who you truly are and standing up for your values even though they diametrically oppose what your grandfather stood for...I understand that you have issues using the flag because you come from a family of Razakars...but atleast on this online forum you were brave enough to publicly slap your treasonous family. Keep strong in your Bangladeshi ideals and maybe just maybe one day you will convince your family for what your grandfather truly was, a double-crossing anti-nationalist mass murderer...unfortunately nothing can save him from hell fire...but atleast your family can be saved. Good luck my Bangladeshi friend. Joy Bangla!


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## Arefin007

Anubis said:


> Good for you....atleast on this forum you are resilient enough to show who you truly are and standing up for your values even though they diametrically oppose what your grandfather stood for...I understand that you have issues using the flag because you come from a family of Razakars...but atleast on this online forum you were brave enough to publicly slap your treasonous family. Keep strong in your Bangladeshi ideals and maybe just maybe one day you will convince your family for what your grandfather truly was, a double-crossing anti-nationalist mass murderer...unfortunately nothing can save him from hell fire...but atleast your family can be saved. Good luck my Bangladeshi friend. Joy Bangla!


Stop bothering me. I want to have nothing to do with pseudonationalists like you


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## Anubis

Arefin007 said:


> Stop bothering me. I want to have nothing to do with pseudonationalists like you


I am a globalist....does your family watch you post here? Why are you still acting like its still 1971? You grandpa might not know it...but the war is over...all his struggles went in vain and guess what he LOST...he is nothing but an obscure spec of insect wing that has been blown off the shoulders of Bangladesh. Unless your family realizes that nothing to worry about....they will be forgotten just like your grandfather and then finally you can be free to express your actual feelings to Bangladesh...the country you proudly represent in this forum....Joyu Bangabandhu.

@Doyalbaba see how fun this is.

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## Arefin007

Anubis said:


> I am a globalist....does your family watch you post here? Why are you still acting like its still 1971? You grandpa might not know it...but the war is over...all his struggles went in vain and guess what he LOST...he is nothing but an obscure spec of insect wing that has been blown off the shoulders of Bangladesh. Unless your family realizes that nothing to worry about....they will be forgotten just like your grandfather and then finally you can be free to express your actual feelings to Bangladesh...the country you proudly represent in this forum....Joyu Bangabandhu.
> 
> @Doyalbaba see how fun this is.


I would much rather represent UK which granted us asylum not Bangladesh Indian colony which refuses accept us to this day calls us traitors for fightin' for our own country


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## Anubis

Arefin007 said:


> I would much rather represent UK which granted us asylum not Bangladesh Indian colony which refuses accept us to this day calls us traitors for fightin' for our own country


Beautiful...the UK is a great country....but why did you need asylum? I mean you fought for Pakistan...and if memory serves me right....the entire West wing of Pakistan is still.....pretty much....Pakistanish! Why not go there?? So much love for Pakistan and flee off to the UK....come on...that is a classic looser tactic...kill millions of people...get your *** handed to you..rather than staying and showing your love you flee thousands of miles away....your grandfather was not a brave man...he was a textbook definition of a coward traitor.


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## Arefin007

Anubis said:


> Beautiful...the UK is a great country....but why did you need asylum? I mean you fought for Pakistan...and if memory serves me right....the entire West wing of Pakistan is still.....pretty much....Pakistanish! Why not go there?? So much love for Pakistan and flee off to the UK....come on...that is a classic looser tactic...kill millions of people...get your *** handed to you..rather than staying and showing your love you flee thousands of miles away....your grandfather was not a brave man...he was a textbook definition of a coward traitor.


Keep quiet you makin' me angry We will go wherever we want none of your headache mind own business For your info my grandpa's regiment successfully eliminated thousand of Mukti terrorists On your face hahha It was coz of India they lost otherwise they would have decimated those terrorists 
And stop sayin' BS 'bout grandpa I don't tolerate rubbish We are very resilient mind you


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## Anubis

Arefin007 said:


> Keep quiet you makin' me angry We will go wherever we want none of your headache mind own business For your info my grandpa's regiment successfully eliminated thousand of Mukti terrorists On your face hahha It was coz of India they lost otherwise they would have decimated those terrorists
> And stop sayin' BS 'bout grandpa I don't tolerate rubbish We are very resilient mind you


I understand all that....but why didn't the slave of the in-human mass murdering Pak army go back to Pakistan? Or did they disown him for eating fish?


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## Arefin007

Anubis said:


> I understand all that....but why didn't the slave of the in-human mass murdering Pak army go back to Pakistan? Or did they disown him for eating fish?


Loooool, he was meat eater not fish they don't serve fish in Pak Army so stop BS We are also meat eaters Like I said where we wanna go is our business none of yours so mind own I'm getting angry here


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## Anubis

Arefin007 said:


> Loooool, he was meat eater not fish they don't serve fish in Pak Army so stop BS We are also meat eaters Like I said where we wanna go is our business none of yours so mind own I'm getting angry here


OK so he didn't eat fish...then why didn't his masters accept him in his own country?? Too short and brown?? Or did they see that if fu**er could betray his own people it wouldn't be impossible that in the future he would betray the Pakistanis too?? Did they just throw him out like the garbage he was?


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## Arefin007

Anubis said:


> OK so he didn't eat fish...then why didn't his masters accept him in his own country?? Too short and brown?? Or did they see that if fu**er could betray his own people it wouldn't be impossible that in the future he would betray the Pakistanis too?? Did they just throw him out like the garbage he was?


Lol look you being racist towards own countrymen No grandpa was fair and stout with good build which is why lieutenant 
No one could touch him during war everyone feared him until India entered carry out evil plan

How many times tell you that where we go none of your business keep shut Pak Army funded asylum process am very grateful for good life UK stop badmouthin' 'em makin' me angry now 

Learn from West Bengal lol consider themselves Indian first not narrow minded like you folks reapin' benefits of union while Bangladesh isolated countrymen going to India for jobs then gettin' exploited small country irrelevant in world affairs poor people everywhere

Can't get logic through head If CHT tries secede BD Army would go all out keep country intact eliminate separatists leading to mass kill if such situation comes to pass hypothetical same case '71 nothing to be ashamed for defending own country Grandpa is shaan of house Am proud of him Stop sayin' BS 'bout him We don't take such things lightly

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## Anubis

Arefin007 said:


> Lol look you being racist towards own countrymen No grandpa was fair and stout with good build which is why lieutenant
> No one could touch him during war everyone feared him until India entered carry out evil plan
> 
> How many times tell you that where we go none of your business keep shut Pak Army funded asylum process am very grateful for good life UK stop badmouthin' 'em makin' me angry now
> 
> Learn from West Bengal lol consider themselves Indian first not narrow minded like you folks reapin' benefits of union while Bangladesh isolated countrymen going to India for jobs then gettin' exploited small country irrelevant in world affairs poor people everywhere
> 
> Can't get logic through head If CHT tries secede BD Army would go all out keep country intact eliminate separatists leading to mass kill if such situation comes to pass hypothetical same case '71 nothing to be ashamed for defending own country Grandpa is shaan of house Am proud of him Stop sayin' BS 'bout him We don't take such things lightly


Nobody touched your fair and lovely gradpa until the Indians came in....ok so where did the Indians touch him? Was being touched by Indians too traumatizing for him? The Pak army paid him to get the **** out of Pakistan and to go live in the UK....man they must have started hating your grandpa after he was touched by Indians. I mean you have to extremely embarrassed about someone to pay him to leave the country.....did he get too naughty with the Indians?


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## Arefin007

Anubis said:


> Nobody touched your fair and lovely gradpa until the Indians came in....ok so where did the Indians touch him? Was being touched by Indians too traumatizing for him? The Pak army paid him to get the **** out of Pakistan and to go live in the UK....man they must have started hating your grandpa after he was touched by Indians. I mean you have to extremely embarrassed about someone to pay him to leave the country.....did he get too naughty with the Indians?


Lol you know full well what I meant stop acting like clown hahha

Run out of arguments can't rebutt anythin' resortin' to cheap personal attacks hide embarassment ha


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## Anubis

Arefin007 said:


> Lol you know full well what I meant stop acting like clown hahha
> 
> Run out of arguments can't rebutt anythin' resortin' to cheap personal attacks hide embarassment ha


There's nothing personal here...you know full well that Pak army paid your grandpa to leave their country...there must have been something wrong with that idiot that the military instead of letting him live in the country he fought for kicked him out...kind of like they brought a prostitute to their house and when the didn't need him anymore paid him and he left....the similarities between that traitor and a prostitute is striking...kind of a poetic justice maybe.


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## Arefin007

Anubis said:


> There's nothing personal here...you know full well that Pak army paid your grandpa to leave their country...there must have been something wrong with that idiot that the military instead of letting him live in the country he fought for kicked him out...kind of like they brought a prostitute to their house and when the didn't need him anymore paid him and he left....the similarities between that traitor and a prostitute is striking...kind of a poetic justice maybe.


Loool you gone mad Grandpa always wanted to live in UK got financial help from Pak Army for loyalty none of your business where he wished to stay mind own Stop insultin' grandpa don't you have any respect for deceased He was great soldier respected by everyone combated terrorists stop sayin' rubbish 'bout him resorting to personal attacks again just keep shut

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## Anubis

Arefin007 said:


> Loool you gone mad Grandpa always wanted to live in UK got financial help from Pak Army for loyalty none of your business where he wished to stay mind own Stop insultin' grandpa don't you have any respect for deceased He was great soldier respected by everyone combated terrorists stop sayin' rubbish 'bout him resorting to personal attacks again just keep shut


A guy who loves his country fought a war for money to live in another country....your grandpa was not a Pakistani nationalist...he was just a paid mercenary...you will find lots of them in Africa.

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## Homo Sapiens

Anubis said:


> I am a globalist....does your family watch you post here? Why are you still acting like its still 1971? You grandpa might not know it...but the war is over...all his struggles went in vain and guess what he LOST...he is nothing but an obscure spec of insect wing that has been blown off the shoulders of Bangladesh. Unless your family realizes that nothing to worry about....they will be forgotten just like your grandfather and then finally you can be free to express your actual feelings to Bangladesh...the country you proudly represent in this forum....Joyu Bangabandhu.
> 
> @Doyalbaba see how fun this is.


He is not Bangladeshi Bengali,maybe can be called Pakistani Bengali.There are two million Bengali Pakistani in Karachi,he is like them.There are also 100 million indian Bengali who just speak the same language but their mentality is totally different.For anyone to claim Bangladeshi Bengali,he need to show allegiance towards independence of Bangladesh.Pakistani Bengali are against our independence and we are cool about that as long as they don't try to represent us.We should treat this Arefin007 guy the same.A Pakistani Bangla speaking person.Not one of us.He need to drop our flag.

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## Bilal9

ভাই তোমরা দুইজনে ছাইড়া দাওতো। কি শুরু করলা ?

পঁয়তাল্লিশ বচ্ছর পরে এইসব ঘাইটা কি লাভ ?


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## kobiraaz

Bilal9 said:


> ভাই তোমরা দুইজনে ছাইড়া দাওতো। কি শুরু করলা ?
> 
> পঁয়তাল্লিশ বচ্ছর পরে এইসব ঘাইটা কি লাভ ?



দরকার আছে ভাই যে বাংলাদেশ স্বীকার করেনা সে কেমনে লাল সবুজ পতাকা উড়ায়? এই টা তো দেওয়াই রিপ্রেজেন্ট করতে। সে তো বাংলাদেশ রিপ্রেজেন্ট করেনা।

জিয়া উর রহমানের ফ্যান কেমনে মুক্তিযুদ্ধ বিরোধী হয় এইটাও আমার বোধগম্য না।

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## Saiful Islam

Anubis said:


> Well if you are a British citizen you are not a Bangladeshi citizen....and you can denounce your citizenship anytime...ant on this forum the country flag is not necessarily which country you originate from rather which country or which country's interests you represent....most Indians living in foreign countries are not Indian citizens here....there is a Vietnamese member who represents the US...and there are people who do not fly any flag at all...unless you want to make the rest of the Bangladeshis happy by disrespecting the memory of your grandfather please feel free to remove the flag...or I am always here to remind you how with every single post you are taking a dump on your grandfather's ideals.



Give him some room for thinking, this poster might be young and still deciding what his stance is on 71. It took me some time to decide which side to choose and why at the age of 17/18.

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## Saiful Islam

Doyalbaba said:


> He is not Bangladeshi Bengali,maybe can be called Pakistani Bengali.There are two million Bengali Pakistani in Karachi,he is like them.There are also 100 million indian Bengali who just speak the same language but their mentality is totally different.For anyone to claim Bangladeshi Bengali,he need to show allegiance towards independence of Bangladesh.Pakistani Bengali are against our independence and we are cool about that as long as they don't try to represent us.We should treat this Arefin007 guy the same.A Pakistani Bangla speaking person.Not one of us.He need to drop our flag.



So then why are some of you guys running around grilling the likes of Rainman for considering themselves Indian before Bengali? And Pakistani Bengali are only against the independence in your eyes because they live in a place called Pakistan. Seriously you got to let go of this phobia for Pakistan. before this forum I used to think it was an Indian thing but you guys seem to do it as well.

Arefin obviously holds the a similar view to me except my family were freedom fighters who fought for an independent Bengali Muslim nation who a few years down the line came to a REALISATION like many other mukti fauj I've met or watched online expressed many regrets.

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## Asaf Baloch

johnny boy said:


> hmmm...why was so much hatred shown aginst bengalis pre 1971?????any one has any answer??????


In my opinion hatred towards Bengalis have roots back in 1857, soon after Indian mutiny (as the Britishers called it) lines were drawn by the British as to who is the superior martial race, since they learned the lesson and saw that the sepoys of East India Company who were of Bengali, south Indian, origin were no more trustworthy. New recruits were Sikhs muslim and hindu punjabis pathans Gurkhas and other north Indians, superiority fuel was systematically injected in them and it remains to this day. In pakistan if you say someone " aray o bangali" it means that you want to insult him its equal to calling him animal. I hope it is not the case in India and it shouldn't be in 1971 it wasn't India who won and Pakistan who lost it was hatred which lost injustice which lost. Equality won unity won dedication won. Allah is rabul Alameen not only rabul muslimeen there can be many ways He teaches you lessons He can insult children of isreal through Nebuchadnezzar and Pakistan through India. There is no rule of chosen people these are all fairy tales. As you sow so shall you reap. What had to happen happened now Pakistan Bangladesh India should move forward We should carry mission of ziaur rehman cooperate with each other hatred has no end. Pakistan should make sure that no blunders like 1971 and its causes happen. I know i will be criticized by fellow Pakistanis but please tell me for how long are we going to close our eyes and deny reality

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## Asaf Baloch

Omar1984 said:


> Most of Pakistanis were not born in 1971, but even our elders dont hold any grudges.
> 
> 
> Many Pakistanis think it was a blessing in disguise.
> 
> Before 1971, East Pakistan's (Bangladesh) population was much more than West Pakistan's (Pakistan) population.
> 
> If we were still one country, today Pakistan's population would be more than 300 million and our cities would've been more populated with much more ethnic conflicts.
> 
> 
> Pakistanis are not like indians, we hold no grudges of an event when most Pakistanis were not even alive and we wish Bangladesh all the best.





Omar1984 said:


> Most of Pakistanis were not born in 1971, but even our elders dont hold any grudges.
> 
> 
> Many Pakistanis think it was a blessing in disguise.
> 
> Before 1971, East Pakistan's (Bangladesh) population was much more than West Pakistan's (Pakistan) population.
> 
> If we were still one country, today Pakistan's population would be more than 300 million and our cities would've been more populated with much more ethnic conflicts.
> 
> 
> Pakistanis are not like indians, we hold no grudges of an event when most Pakistanis were not even alive and we wish Bangladesh all the best.


Blessing in disguise? its as if a man was stripped naked and forced to run through a busy market place and his reaction be like "thank god those clothes are removed, it was so itchy, unfit and extremely uncomfortable". Should Pakistan had given eastern wing independence through votes or legislation (just like valvet divorce of '93 between czech and Slovak to disintegrate czechoslovakia) then your statement was appropriate.



Md Akmal said:


> *THE WAY I SAW IT*
> 
> _During the Liberation War of 1971, I was a student of class seven and reading in a residential school. Following the address of Sk Mujib our school was closed and we were sent home. In those days our communication system were not that good. Most of us had to depent on railway line. Our home was in greater Dinajpur district. So on 10/12 March 1971 I went to my home at around 11/12 pm. During those days almost everyday there was a hartal and procession. We used to enjoy all these slogans like "Joy Bangla, Tomar Amar Thikana, Padma- Meghna-Jumuna".
> 
> So, one day I went along with my mama to enjoy a Circus and"Jatra Party" on a "bail gari". It was on 21/22 March. In the circus party I enjoyed a song, " Piare bango bondhu Sk Mujibur Rahman, tu chahe, tu dede bangalee apni jane", then the whole night I enjoyed the "Jattra Party". But than suddenly some Awami Leaque leaders came and started poltical speech and said that from here we have to go for a procession in protest against Yahya Khan and so it started. I was fleeling very drowsy but still shouted with a loud voice , "Joy Bangla".
> 
> My home was in a village closer to a Thana HQ(around 3 km). On 26 March 1971 I saw in all the houses the flag of Bangladesh(Map of E Pak engraved at the middle). I also stealed one flag and and placed at the top of our house. At that time I hardly understand any politics. One day I heard that there was some problem in Dinajpur and Thakurgaon in EPR wing and than we come to know all clear and everything is under EPR control. By this time all non-Bengalies were killed in EPR, however it took 3/4 days fighting with them. Even in BOPs all non-Bengalies were killed. Then one day some EPR personnels came to our area and killed all Biharees. All Police and civil administration coperated with them. At that time all Pakistani Army were concentrated at Rangpur and Saidpur. Some of the Bengali soldiers who mutineed also came to our area and we used to hear all horror stories of Pakistan Army. Then all these EPR and soldiers were organised along with new recruits marched towards Saidpur.(To be continued)
> _


So easy for you to say all non-bengalis killed. All biharis killed! This "all" have figures? But who cares right? It's the Victor who writes history.


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## kobiraaz

Asaf Baloch said:


> In my opinion hatred towards Bengalis have roots back in 1857, soon after Indian mutiny (as the Britishers called it) lines were drawn by the British as to who is the superior martial race, since they learned the lesson and saw that the sepoys of East India Company who were of Bengali, south Indian, origin were no more trustworthy. New recruits were Sikhs muslim and hindu punjabis pathans Gurkhas and other north Indians, superiority fuel was systematically injected in them and it remains to this day. In pakistan if you say someone " aray o bangali" it means that you want to insult him its equal to calling him animal. I hope it is not the case in India and it shouldn't be in 1971 it wasn't India who won and Pakistan who lost it was hatred which lost injustice which lost. Equality won unity won dedication won. Allah is rabul Alameen not only rabul muslimeen there can be many ways He teaches you lessons He can insult children of isreal through Nebuchadnezzar and Pakistan through India. There is no rule of chosen people these are all fairy tales. As you sow so shall you reap. What had to happen happened now Pakistan Bangladesh India should move forward We should carry mission of ziaur rehman cooperate with each other hatred has no end. Pakistan should make sure that no blunders like 1971 and its causes happen. I know i will be criticized by fellow Pakistanis but please tell me for how long are we going to close our eyes and deny reality



At least One Pakistani knows his history and observe it without nationalist Bias. The truth is we were considered lesser Muslim therefore not fit to rule Pakistan. Suhrawardi was sidelined for this.


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## Apprentice

kobiraaz said:


> At least One Pakistani knows his history and observe it without nationalist Bias. The truth is we were considered lesser Muslim therefore not fit to rule Pakistan. Suhrawardi was sidelined for this.



Then why was Nurul Amin in charge of Pakistan during 1971?

Why was Iskander Mirza the first general to declare martial law?

Why were Bogra, Nazimuddin and Surawardy all leaders of Pakistan in 1950s? (And please don't say they were dismissed due to being Bengali, because even West Pakistani leaders such as Sardar Abdur Rab Nishtar were unfairly dismissed during that same time period).

If Pakistan was all that bad to Bengalis, then a significant section of Bengalis would not have been loyal (or even neutral) to Pakistan in 1971

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## kobiraaz

Apprentice said:


> Then why was Nurul Amin in charge of Pakistan during 1971?
> 
> Why was Iskander Mirza the first general to declare martial law?
> 
> Why were Bogra, Nazimuddin and Surawardy all leaders of Pakistan in 1950s? (And please don't say they were dismissed due to being Bengali, because even West Pakistani leaders such as Sardar Abdur Rab Nishtar were unfairly dismissed during that same time period).
> 
> If Pakistan was all that bad to Bengalis, then a significant section of Bengalis would not have been loyal (or even neutral) to Pakistan in 1971


Good questions. Urdu speaking people who lived in Bengal are not considered Bengali. These Muslim league leaders you mentioned had no affinity to Bengali


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## Asaf Baloch

kobiraaz said:


> At least One Pakistani knows his history and observe it without nationalist Bias. The truth is we were considered lesser Muslim therefore not fit to rule Pakistan. Suhrawardi was sidelined for this.


There are many more my friend. Both Bangladeshis and Pakistanis must get rid of hatred. Joy bangla, Pakistan zindabad

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## extra terrestrial

kobiraaz said:


> Good questions. Urdu speaking people who lived in Bengal are not considered Bengali. These Muslim league leaders you mentioned had no affinity to Bengali



Well, I disagree. 

A Bengali could well be an Urdu speaker or a speaker of any language, out of necessity. Take the Bangladeshi diaspora for an example... A lot of them cannot speak Bengali but are accustomed to the local languages of the places they reside in.

Another instance would be people like Begum Rokeya and A K Fazlul Haq who were pretty fluent Urdu speakers... 

Coming back to the topic of Muslim League leaders, be it Khawja Nazimuddin, Muhammad Ali Bogra, Hussein Suhrawardy or Nurul Amin, they may have their own political strategies but all of them were born in erstwhile Bengal and used to identify themselves as Bengalis. I don't think there is any reason to not consider them Bengalis...


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## kobiraaz

extra terrestrial said:


> Well, I disagree.
> 
> A Bengali could well be an Urdu speaker or a speaker of any language, out of necessity. Take the Bangladeshi diaspora for an example... A lot of them cannot speak Bengali but are accustomed to the local languages of the places they reside in.
> 
> Another instance would be people like Begum Rokeya and A K Fazlul Haq who were pretty fluent Urdu speakers...
> 
> Coming back to the topic of Muslim League leaders, be it Khawja Nazimuddin, Muhammad Ali Bogra, Hussein Suhrawardy or Nurul Amin, they may have their own political strategies but all of them were born in erstwhile Bengal and used to identify themselves as Bengalis. I don't think there is any reason to not consider them Bengalis...



I thought Khaza Nazimuddin was from Nawab family and they were Urdu speakers. I know few of the nawab family and they speak urdu even today.

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## Bilal9

kobiraaz said:


> I thought Khaza Nazimuddin was from Nawab family and they were Urdu speakers. I know few of the nawab family and they speak urdu even today.



এইডা হাসা কথা কোইসুইন।


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## extra terrestrial

kobiraaz said:


> I thought Khaza Nazimuddin was from Nawab family and they were Urdu speakers. I know few of the nawab family and they speak urdu even today.



Yep he was, so was Muhammad Ali Bogra (descendant of Nawab Nabab Ali Chowdhury of Tangail). 

Some of them do speak Urdu, but Urdu speaking is not really limited to the Nawab family alone. Those living in the Old Dhaka would know that many people belonging to Islampur and adjoining areas also speak Urdu. 

I was once reading an anthropological article on the Bengalis living in Pakistan. At one point, the author quoted an interview with a descendant of the Nawab family as a representative of the community, which means the individual identified himself as a Bengali, even in Pakistan... 

Issues like ethnicity are part of the identity of an individual which is entirely a personal thing/choice in my opinion... We can't really judge them based upon these things...


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## Bilal9

extra terrestrial said:


> Yep he was, so was Muhammad Ali Bogra (descendant of Nawab Nabab Ali Chowdhury of Tangail).
> 
> Some of them do speak Urdu, but Urdu speaking is not really limited to the Nawab family alone. Those living in the Old Dhaka would know that many people belonging to Islampur and adjoining areas also speak Urdu.
> 
> I was once reading an anthropological article on the Bengalis living in Pakistan. At one point, the author quoted an interview with a descendant of the Nawab family as a representative of the community, which means the individual identified himself as a Bengali, even in Pakistan...
> 
> Issues like ethnicity are part of the identity of an individual which is entirely a personal thing/choice in my opinion... We can't really judge them based upon these things...



Speaking Urdu was de riguer in upper class Muslim families then living in Kolkatta. Like the Suhrawardys. They were a prime example.

Most of the upper-class Muslims in Dhaka including the Nawab family spoke Urdu between themselves. That is how they differentiated themselves from Hindus and the not-so-aristocratic. Of course they suffered the most in the events leading up to 1971 because they threw their support behind the idea of a united Pakistan. Khwaja Hassan Askari's house was burnt down by the awami hooligans in 1969 I believe. They lived behind Paribagh Shah Sahib's Dargah and they had to leave for Pakistan with their whole family by 1975. Sad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwaja_Hassan_Askari

The newest generation of Dhaka's Nawab Family is different though. They are highly educated, accomplished and speak mostly English.


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## extra terrestrial

Bilal9 said:


> Speaking Urdu was de riguer in upper class Muslim families then living in Kolkatta. Like the Suhrawardys. They were a prime example.
> 
> Most of the upper-class Muslims in Dhaka including the Nawab family spoke Urdu between themselves. That is how they differentiated themselves from Hindus and the not-so-aristocratic. Of course they suffered the most in the events leading up to 1971 because they threw their support behind the idea of a united Pakistan. Khwaja Hassan Askari's house was burnt down by the awami hooligans in 1969 I believe. They lived behind Paribagh Shah Sahib's Dargah and they had to leave for Pakistan with their whole family by 1975. Sad.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwaja_Hassan_Askari
> 
> The newest generation of Dhaka's Nawab Family is different though. They are highly educated, accomplished and speak mostly English.



Well, the nawab family is quite large actually, it's a clan in itself! 

Just like every other society in Bangladesh, descendants of this family are divided into several economic classes, from lower to upper. What you said is true for only the upper class people, like Khawja Sarfaraz for example, the guitarist of Cryptic Fate.

I think it was a supplement of Daily Star (perhaps an issue of The Star) where they published a detailed story on the present day conditions of the descendants of the family. In the article, they also interviewed a descendant now a 'puri' seller in old Dhaka... 

We are going off topic BTW...


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## bongbang

extra terrestrial said:


> Well, the nawab family is quite large actually, it's a clan in itself!
> 
> Just like every other society in Bangladesh, descendants of this family are divided into several economic classes, from lower to upper. What you said is true for only the upper class people, like Khawja Sarfaraz for example, the guitarist of Cryptic Fate.
> 
> I think it was a supplement of Daily Star (perhaps an issue of The Star) where they published a detailed story on the present day conditions of the descendants of the family. In the article, they also interviewed a descendant now a 'puri' seller in old Dhaka...
> 
> We are going off topic BTW...



You are posting as if these are real nawabs. These are migrants from Indian north west region during British rule early 20th century. Hindu landlords were known as Zamindars/Raja and Muslims landlords/Zamindars were often known as nawabs. The Dhaka nawab family is a landholder around Dhaka area not whole BD, there were other nawabs around the country, for example Comilla, Brahmanbaria, Tangail Nawabs.
The real nawabs will be Mughal rulers designated for whole Bangla, independent or under Mughal influence. Im pointing out this to clear if there are any misconceptions. Im lineage of nawab alivardi khan with a mix of comilla nawabs of Mughal lineage can attest this we can speak perfect Bengali, its the Urdu migrant nawabs during the British rule cant.

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## extra terrestrial

bongbang said:


> You are posting as if these are real nawabs. These are migrants from Indian north west region during British rule early 20th century. Hindu landlords were known as Zamindars/Raja and Muslims landlords/Zamindars were often known as nawabs. The Dhaka nawab family is a landholder around Dhaka area not whole BD, there were other nawabs around the country, for example Comilla, Brahmanbaria, Tangail Nawabs.
> The real nawabs will be Mughal rulers designated for whole Bangla, independent or under Mughal influence. Im pointing out this to clear if there are any misconceptions. Im lineage of nawab alivardi khan with a mix of comilla nawabs of Mughal lineage can attest this we can speak perfect Bengali, its the Urdu migrant nawabs during the British rule cant.



What's real nawab and fake nawab? 

Nobody really inherited the title 'Nawab' since birth, it was conferred upon, whether by the Mughals or the British is a different matter...

It was obviously a zamindar family but they were popularly known as the Nawab Family of Dhaka. Here is a Banglapedia entry of that family: http://en.banglapedia.org/index.php?title=Nawab_Family_of_Dhaka

And it looks like you have a poor knowledge about the history of the family. They first migrated to Bengal (Sylhet and Dhaka) in the early 18th century from Kashmir...

Also, it's really foolish to say that the nawabs couldn't speak Bengali. After settling here, members from the family married the locals. Besides, they were quite active in the Bengali politics as well as the cultural affairs...

BTW Nawab Alivardi Khan was also a migrant from the Deccan in the 18th century but not a Mughal lineage, a Persian perhaps... @kobiraaz can confirm...

And I didn't know there is a trace of the family of Alivardi Khan... There was a report on a possible descendant of Nawab Sirajuddoula,
*ঢাকায় এখন বসবাস করেন নবাব সিরাজ উদ-দৌলার বংশধররা*
Are you related by any chance?

Also you may want to check out this family-tree page for some of the historic families in Bangladesh: http://www1.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=gupshup1&view=9&ver=1382

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## bongbang

extra terrestrial said:


> What's real nawab and fake nawab?
> 
> Nobody really inherited the title 'Nawab' since birth, it was conferred upon, whether by the Mughals or the British is a different matter...
> 
> It was obviously a zamindar family but they were popularly known as the Nawab Family of Dhaka. Here is a Banglapedia entry of that family: http://en.banglapedia.org/index.php?title=Nawab_Family_of_Dhaka
> 
> And it looks like you have a poor knowledge about the history of the family. They first migrated to Bengal (Sylhet and Dhaka) in the early 18th century from Kashmir...
> 
> Also, it's really foolish to say that the nawabs couldn't speak Bengali. After settling here, members from the family married the locals. Besides, they were quite active in the Bengali politics as well as the cultural affairs...
> 
> BTW Nawab Alivardi Khan was also a migrant from the Deccan in the 18th century but not a Mughal lineage, a Persian perhaps... @kobiraaz can confirm...
> 
> And I didn't know there is a trace of the family of Alivardi Khan... There was a report on a possible descendant of Nawab Sirajuddoula,
> *ঢাকায় এখন বসবাস করেন নবাব সিরাজ উদ-দৌলার বংশধররা*
> Are you related by any chance?
> 
> Also you may want to check out this family-tree page for some of the historic families in Bangladesh: http://www1.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=gupshup1&view=9&ver=1382



Im saying Mughal influenced Nawabs are real Nawabs, not saying any Mughal lineage but of Mughal empire. The Nawabs who took the title during British are not real Nawabs its just self styled Nawab titles of the Muslim landlords. My problem was you were not using the prefix "Dhaka" before "the Nawab" and it was sounding as if they are the Nawabs of total BD/Bengal. And I dont know how these people are deriving the lineage in the article you posted. They can derive lineage from mother's side or even can relate from uncle, Alivardi Khan had younger brother. Who will go thoroughly these? My grandfather said this in his deathbed. If he was alive now and I had more time and interest, could investigate by some last remaining of his brothers. We have idea by the family title and from where they migrated. But in the article you posted saying about one lineage from 6th generation. We are not like that subjugated type we have influence in south west region but seems we have some commonality with that family from Murshidabad to Khulna to Dhaka. Asking in south west regions we find that many people are our distant cousins. Going back to 3-4 generations we have a clan of our own, the relation fades away above that.

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## extra terrestrial

bongbang said:


> Im saying Mughal influenced Nawabs are real Nawabs, not saying any Mughal lineage but of Mughal empire. The Nawabs who took the title during British are not real Nawabs its just self styled Nawab titles of the Muslim landlords. My problem was you were not using the prefix "Dhaka" before "the Nawab" and it was sounding as if they are the Nawabs of total BD/Bengal. And I dont know how these people are deriving the lineage in the article you posted. They can derive lineage from mother's side or even can relate from uncle, Alivardi Khan had younger brother. Who will go thoroughly these? My grandfather said this in his deathbed. If he was alive now and I had more time and interest, could investigate by some last remaining of his brothers. We have idea by the family title and from where they migrated. But in the article you posted saying about one lineage from 6th generation. We are not like that subjugated type we have influence in south west region but seems we have some commonality with that family from Murshidabad to Khulna to Dhaka. Asking in south west regions we find that many people are our distant cousins. Going back to 3-4 generations we have a clan of our own, the relation fades away above that.



Well, my argument was there's no fake or real nawab as both had the title conferred upon them. I was not using the prefix 'Dhaka' since those involved in the discussion already knew that the context is about the Nawab Family of Dhaka... Anyway, to differentiate, you could use the phrases like Nawab of Murshidabad and Nawab of Dhaka...

Though they were mere zamindars but the Nawabs of Dhaka were quite influential in the fact that they heavily influenced the British Raj polices in East Bengal. Also, the Shia community of Bengal, based in Hosni Dalan of Dhaka, used to consider the Mughal Subedar as their custodian. After the death of the last Nazim, they declared the Nawabs of Dhaka as their custodian...

AFAIK, Alivardi Khan didn't have any sons... so the lineage would have to be maternal... However, since we live in a patriarchal society, I'm not sure how significant it is...

Family titles in Bangladesh means nothing...  You will find many having a prominent title in their names but not really belonging to the lineage...

I would urge you to investigate, if possible... It's fun actually, knowing your ancestors... 

BTW, you were saying you also have a lineage to the Comilla based Nawabs, I would like to know more about that, if it's okay with you...

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## kobiraaz

Alivardi Khan had 3 Daughters. All of them were married to sons of his only brother.

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## masud

একদিন একজন মহিলাকে রাস্তার মধ্যে কিছু লোক ধর্ষণ করছিল।।.তো হঠাৎ করে রাস্তা দিয়ে হেঁটে যাচ্ছিলেন একজন ভদ্রলোক, তিনি এই দৃশ্য দেখে মানবতার খাতিরে ফিল্মি স্টাইলে ওই মহিলাকে বাঁচালেন। .তারপর মহিলাটাকে ওই ভদ্রলোক নিজের বাড়িতে নিয়ে গেলেন তার চিকিৎসা করালেন তাকে আশ্রয় দিলেন। কিন্তু ভদ্র লোকটি আসলে ভদ্র ছিলেন না। তিনিও ওই ধর্ষকদের মতই ছিলেন। তিনিও ওই ধর্ষকদের মত মহিলাটাকে দেখে তার চেতনা জেগে উঠে। .এজন্য তিনি রাস্তার মধ্যে এসব না করে তাকে বাসায় আটকে রেখে আজ পর্যন্ত প্রত্যেক দিন ধর্ষণ করে চলেছেন। .কি মর্মান্তিক তাই না? .এবার আসেন আসল কথায়। ধর্ষক গুলা ছিলেন ১৯৭১ সালের পাক সেনারা আর ভদ্রলোকটি হচ্ছেন ভারত। আর ধর্ষিত মহিলাটি হচ্ছে বাংলাদেশ! .তারা আমাদের প্রতিনিয়ত ধর্ষণ করে চলেছেন।


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## barbarosa

Unfortunately BD became an independent country but Indian army became their Hero, not shekh sab or his party.


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## kobiraaz

barbarosa said:


> Unfortunately BD became an independent country but Indian army became their Hero, not shekh sab or his party.



And Why do you think so? I as a Bangladeshi can't tell how many Indians died in 1971. Nothing about Indian army. They are neither glorified nor mentioned. 

All of Bangladeshis Know,.The main battle was fought by the Muktis.. When India Army came they only had to take out heavily defended Army garrisons with firepower that Muktis lacked. But Muktis were ambush specialist and they turned the country a living hell for Pakistanis.


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## Zabaniyah

kobiraaz said:


> And Why do you think so? I as a Bangladeshi can't tell how many Indians died in 1971. Nothing about Indian army. They are neither glorified nor mentioned.



A lot of Indians died actually.


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## Major d1

Loki said:


> A lot of Indians died actually.



In a war situation soldiers will die. It;s natural. That war happened India VS Pakistan. In Punjab or else border many Indian soldiers also died. We can't give our self-respect to those people who actually not came to help us but came to defend Pakistan and helped Bangladesh for making a providence of India and made a division from Pakistan for their own benefit. That is why they didn't attack in 1975 , where their blue print was ready to attack Bangladesh. Bcz they knew that they can use Bangladesh for themselves. What is happening right now. If they wanted to go throw a war situation their status will be be same to same as like 7 sisters.


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## Zabaniyah

Major d1 said:


> In a war situation soldiers will die. It;s natural. That war happened India VS Pakistan. In Punjab or else border many Indian soldiers also died. We can't give our self-respect to those people who actually not came to help us but came to defend Pakistan and helped Bangladesh for making a providence of India and made a division from Pakistan for their own benefit. That is why they didn't attack in 1975 , where their blue print was ready to attack Bangladesh. Bcz they knew that they can use Bangladesh for themselves. What is happening right now. If they wanted to go throw a war situation their status will be be same to same as like 7 sisters.



I didn't deny that casualties are a consequence of war. It reminded me of someone I met at Heathrow many years ago - An Indian gentleman.

We befriended and talked about miscellaneous stuff. Yet, in the end somehow, he did state that a lot of Indian jawans died in battle, and 'we won't forget it'. 

I thought that it was really weird. Then, I realized that there were indeed divisions among them. 

See their anger and frustrations here? That is one of the reasons. Personally, I would love to end their misery - Permanently....

Try not to wager around conspiracy too much my friend.

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## Major d1

Loki said:


> I didn't deny that casualties are a consequence of war. It reminded me of someone I met at Heathrow many years ago - An Indian gentleman.
> 
> We befriended and talked about miscellaneous stuff. Yet, in the end somehow, he did state that a lot of Indian jawans died in battle, and 'we won't forget it'.
> 
> I thought that it was really weird. Then, I realized that there were indeed divisions among them.
> 
> See their anger and frustrations here? That is one of the reasons. Personally, I would love to end their misery - Permanently....
> 
> Try not to wager around conspiracy too much my friend.



I agree with you honestly - We can't forget them. In the same row i wanna say what they ACTUALLY did to us We also can't forget that . That is why BD people may be crying today what they are doing now Inside of inside BD>


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## Zabaniyah

Major d1 said:


> I agree with you honestly - We can't forget them. In the same row i wanna say what they ACTUALLY did to us We also can't forget that . That is why BD people may be crying today what they are doing now Inside of inside BD>



Well, instead of crying, why not they do something about it? 

I say this because technically, it is considered whining.


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## Banglar Bir

*মেজর জেনারেল - অব: সৈয়দ মুহাম্মদ ইবরাহিম, বীর প্রতীক*
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Youtube Link: 








__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1276693029104357


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## bafxet

Mistakes were made by both sides political mistakes aside. Mujeeb could have been writing but his 5 points were enough to strengthen this divide foundation of which was laid in Agartala conspericy.

As for military I think that hard line bangali are more to be blamed. There minds were poisoned by Mujeeb ur Rahman to the extend that they lifted armed against their own Army. On the other hand the sole mistake of military crack down was to prevent splitting of Pakistan. In any situation any country in the world would do everything in order to keep its ones.


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## Lavrentiy

The fall of Dhaka was a well-deserved slap on the GT Road mentality of some Punjabis and hubris of the Pothohari military officers who consider themselves as a Marshall race.

The "small, weak, dark-skinned, and uncultured Bengalis" gave the "superior warrior race" a thrashing they will never forget. These are the same terms that were used by the Generals for Bengalis.

Yet, their egos remain as inflated as ever despite the disasters (terrorism, Afghanistan) that continued after 1971.

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## Lavrentiy

Billal Dar said:


> Dude calm down. Bhutto was a Sindhi. At that time Bhutto was the strongman in West Pakistan. Yahya was in fact willing to reach a deal with Mujeeb. But Bhutto didn't let that happen. I consider him the main culprit


Bhutto's role cannot be ignored but he was emboldened by hesitation of Yahya to hand power over to Mujeeb.

Bhutto may be Sindhi but he won overwhelmingly from Punjab which never wanted Mujeeb to come to power.

Anyways, history will only remember the utter spanking of the Marshall race and surrender of Tiger Niazi.


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## Banglar Bir

*Mukti Bahini, the forgotten terrorists*
Home / Today's Paper / National / Mukti Bahini, the forgotten terrorists
By Farrukh Saleem
March 14, 2016
Print : National
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/105117-Mukti-Bahini-the-forgotten-terrorists







In the sub-continent, India laid the foundation of cross-border terrorism. The Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), which was established on 21 September 1968, was preceded by the Intelligence Bureau (IB) and back in 1968 IB operatives had already begun sowing cross-border seeds to what would later become the Mukti Bahini. 

For the record, the Mukti Bahini was preceded by the Mukti Fauj which in return was preceded denominationally by the Sangram Parishad. Mukti Bahini guerillas-along with RAW operatives and regulars from the Indian Army-operated training camps in the Indian states of West Bengal, Arunachal Pradesh, Bihar, Assam, Nagaland, Mizoram and Tripura. 

By late 1970, the Mukti Bahini, armed and trained by India, had begun undertaking subversive activities targeting power plants, railways, industries, bridges, fuel depots, looting banks, raiding warehouses, mining ships and killing non-Bengalis. On 26 March 1971, Pakistan Army initiated Operation Searchlight-a law-and-order enforcement operation to safeguard the lives and properties of East Pakistanis and establish the writ of the state. As of March 1971, the total strength of Pakistan army troops posted in East Pakistan stood at 12,000 (armed only with small weapons).

By late-April 1971, Operation Searchlight had managed to throw the Mukti Bahini across the border back into India. Mukti Bahini’s ‘Monsoon offensive’ was also neutralized.

On 15 May 1971, Indian Army’s Eastern Command officially initiated ‘Operation Jackpot’ to reorganize the Mukti Bahini who were on the run. The Indians equipped the Mukti Bahini with Italian howitzers, Dakota DC-3 aircraft, Otter DHC-3 fighter planes and Allouette helicopters (Italian howitzers used by the Mukti Bahini are now preserved at the Bangladesh Military Museum in Dhaka).

Operation Jackpot began churning out up to 5,000 trained guerilla fighters every month. Mukti Bahini guerillas along with RAW operatives and Indian Army regulars would enter East Pakistan through forward bases that were set up in Tripura and West Bengal.

According to Archer Blood, an American career diplomat who served as the last American Consul General to Dhaka, “Indian soil was made available for training camps, hospitals and supply depots for the Mukti Bahini” and the Mukti Bahini had a “safe haven to which it could retire for rest, food, medical supplies and weapons….”

In Nagaland, the Indian Armed Forces established a jungle airstrip for the Mukti Bahini from where Indian Air Force trained pilots conducted sorties by Otter DHC-3 aircraft. India’s Eastern Command trained more than 400 naval commandos and frogmen to drown vessels in Chittagong, Chandpur and Narayanganj.

In Dehra Dun, Major-General Oban “selected the best personnel from the Mukti Bahini” and gave them political and military training. One Mukti Bahini Sector Commander, Quazi Nooruzzaman, writes: “Having received the training, political commandos found it embarrassing to identify themselves as products of the Indian authorities. So they gave themselves the name of Bangladesh Liberation Force.”

The Mukti Bahini killed anywhere from 100,000 Biharis (according to the ‘Chronology for Biharis in Bangladesh’) to 150,000 Biharis (according to the ‘Encyclopedia of Violence, Peace and Conflict; page 64). Qutubuddin Aziz, in ‘Blood and Tears’, has documented 170 eye-witness accounts of the ‘atrocities committed on Biharis and other non-Bengalis’ across 55 towns, covering ‘110 places where the slaughter of the innocents took place’.

According to Lawrence Lifschultz, South Asia correspondent for the Far Eastern Economic Review, the Mukti Bahini leader, Abdul Kader Siddiqui, “personally bayoneted” non-Bengalis to death and the entire incident was filmed by foreign film crews whom Siddiqui had invited to witness the spectacle.

For the record, as per the 1951 census there were 671,000 Biharis in East Pakistan-and imagine up to 20 percent of the entire Bihari population was massacred by the Mukti Bahini. According to Yasmin Saikia’s ‘Women, War and the Making of Bangladesh’, thousands of Bihari women were raped and tortured by the Mukti Bahini (Duke University Press; page 41). 

As of 16 December 1971, the total strength of the Pakistani army troops posted in East Pakistan stood at 34,000 (of which 23,000 were infantry). By December 1971, the total strength of Indian troops around East Pakistan stood at between 150,000 and 400,000 with an additional 100,000 Indian-trained Mukti Bahini. The Indian air force deployed four Hunter Squadrons, one Sukhoi Squadron, three Gnat Squadrons and three MiG-21 Squadrons. 

The Indian navy deployed Aircraft Carrier Vikrant comprising 47 aircraft, eight destroyers, two submarines and three landing ship tanks. In December 1971, India’s 4 Infantry Division, 9 Infantry Division, 20 Mountain Division, 6 Mountain Division, 8 Mountain Division, 57 Mountain Division and 23 Division invaded East Pakistan.

The old saying is that “no one has been able to strike terror into others and at the same time enjoy peace of mind”. The Mukti Bahini terrorists may have been forgotten but the terror that they unleashed on innocent Biharis and other non-Bengalis cannot be whipped off the history books.


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## Banglar Bir

*Nurul Kabir*
15 hrs · 




My piece on Victory day in New Age e-paper
Stealing of a people’s victory: Reclaiming the spirit of Bangladesh’s independence war.

http://epaper.newagebd.net/16-12-2016/25

kindly log in the site to read the whole article.


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## Banglar Bir

*RTNews24 and RTNBD shared a link.*



‘হাজার বছরের প্রতিশোধ নিলাম আজ’ একথা কেনো বলেছিলেন ইন্দিরা গান্ধী?
১৯৭১ সালের ১৬ ই ডিসেম্বর বাংলাদেশ নামে প্রিয় মাতৃভূমির অভ্যুদয় হয়। নতুন জীবনের জয়গান…
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## Banglar Bir

*Tuhin Malik*
10 hrs · 




আমাদের মুক্তিযুদ্ধকে হেয় করে ভারত ও পাকিস্তানের ক্রমাগত ঔদ্ধত্য বন্ধ করতেই হবে।

ভারতীয়রা প্রতিবছর ১৬ ডিসেম্বরে আমাদের মুক্তিযুদ্ধকে ভারত-পাকিস্তান যুদ্ধ বলে দাবী করে আসছে। শুধু তাই নয় তাদের সরকার, ক্ষমতাসীন দল ও মিডিয়া বুক ফুঁলিয়েই আমাদের মুক্তিযুদ্ধ ও মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের অবদানকে তুচ্ছ-তাচ্ছিল্য ও হেয় প্রতিয়মান করেই চলেছে।

এবারও হিন্দত্ববাদী ভারতীয় জনতা পার্টি (বিজেপি) দাবী করেছে, ১৬ ডিসেম্বর ভারতীয়ের বিজয় দিবস । বিজেপির প্রচার মাধ্যমে ১৬ ডিসেম্বরকে তাদের বিজয় হিসেবেই প্রচার করা হচ্ছে। বলা হচ্ছে পাকিস্থানীরা এই দিনে ভারতীয় বাহিনীর হাতেই আত্নসম্পর্ন করেছে। বিজেপির প্রচারে বাংলাদেশ বা মুক্তিবাহিনীর কোন উল্লেখ নেই। বিজেপির ফেসবুকে এই কথা লিখে ছবি প্রচার করছে।

এদিকে আজ শুক্রবার ১৬ ডিসেম্বর মহান বিজয় দিবসকে নিজেদের বিজয় হিসেবে উল্লেখ করে প্রতিবেদন প্রকাশ করেছে ভারতের প্রভাবশালী হিন্দি দৈনিক জাগরণ। পত্রিকাটির অনলাইন সংস্করণে প্রকাশিত ওই প্রতিবেদনে বলা হয়েছে, ১৯৭১ সালের আজকের এই দিনে (১৬ ডিসেম্বর) ভারত পাকিস্তানকে হারিয়ে ইতিহাস রচনা করেছিল। প্রতিবছর আজকের এই দিনে ভারতে বিজয় দিবস হিসেবে পালিত হয়।
লিংক-http://www.facebd.net/newsdetail/detail/200/266804

অন্যদিকে পাকিস্তান ডিফেন্সের পেইজে দেয়া ভিডিওতে দেখানো হচ্ছে, মুক্তিযুদ্ধ ভারত এবং রাশিয়ার যোগ সাজসে একটা ষড়যন্ত্রের চেয়ে বেশি কিছু না। ১৯৭১ সালে বাংলাদেশে ৩০ লাখ বাঙালি মারা যায়নি, যারা মারা গিয়েছিলো তাদের ৯০ শতাংশই বিহারি এবং পাকিস্তানি।

ভিডিওটি পাকিস্তানি প্রতিরক্ষা সংস্থা স্পন্সর করে ব্যাপক প্রচারের চেষ্টা করছে।
‘দি ফরগটেন চ্যাপ্টার- স্টোরি অব ইস্ট পাকিস্তান’ শিরোনামের সাত মিনিটের ভিডিওটিতে ড. জুনাইদ আহমেদ নামের এক পাকিস্তানি লেখকের ‘ক্রিয়েশন অব বাংলাদেশ: এক্সপ্লোডিং মিথস’ এর উপর ভিত্তি করে তৈরি করা হয়েছে। 
লিংক-http://www.facebd.net/newsdetail/detail/200/266837

আমাদের মুক্তিযুদ্ধ ও বীর মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের অসামান্য অবদান ও গৌরবজনক আত্মত্যাগকে হেয় প্রতিপন্ন করে ভারত ও পাকিস্তানের ক্রমাগত এইসব ঔদ্ধত্য অবিলম্বে বন্ধ করতেই হবে।

অবিলম্বে আমাদের সরকার ও পররাষ্ট্র মন্ত্রনালয়ের এ ব্যাপারে কঠোরতম প্রতিবাদ করতে হবে।

অনতিবিলম্বে বাংলাদেশে নিযুক্ত ভারত ও পাকিস্তানের রাষ্ট্রদূতকে তলব করে বুঝিয়ে দিতে হবে- 
বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা কারো দানে পাওয়া কোন দয়া নয়। 
লক্ষ প্রানের আত্মত্যাগের বিনিময়ে পাওয়া বাংলাদেশ একটি স্বাধীন, সার্বভৌম ও আত্মমযার্দাশীল রাষ্ট্র।

*খুদে মুক্তিযোদ্ধা’র প্রশ্ন, মুক্তিযোদ্ধারা অবহেলিত কেন?

http://www.facebd.net/newsdetail/detail/31/266918
*





17 Dec, 2016

সাত দফা দাবি নিয়ে র‌্যালিতে ‘খুদে মুক্তিযোদ্ধা’ ইছামবিজয় দিবস উপলক্ষে ক্ষমতাসীন আওয়ামী লীগের বিজয় র‌্যালিতে মুক্তিযোদ্ধা সেজে আসা এক ‘খুদে মুক্তিযোদ্ধা’ জানতে চেয়েছে, মুক্তিযোদ্ধারা অবহেলিত কেন?

শুক্রবার বিজয় দিবসে বিজয় র‌্যালির আয়োজন করে আওয়ামী লীগ। ইঞ্জিনিয়ার্স ইনস্টিটিউশন মিলনায়তনের সামনের গেট থেকে শুরু হয় এ বিজয় র‌্যালি। এই র‌্যালিতে রাজধানীর মতিঝিল এলাকা থেকে ‘খুদে মুক্তিযোদ্ধা’ সেজে আসে ইছাম। তার হাতে ছিল একটি বন্দুক। আর বুকে ছিল হাতে লেখা সাত দফা সংবলিত একটি দাবিনামা। তাতেই প্রশ্ন করা হয়েছে, মুক্তিযোদ্ধারা অবহেলিত কেন। দাবিনামায় রাজাকারমুক্ত দেশ গড়ার দাবিও জানিয়েছে ইছাম।

‘খুদে মুক্তিযোদ্ধা’ ইছামের সাত দফার মধ্যে আরও ছিল মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের পূর্ণ অধিকার, সঠিক মূল্যায়ন ও যুদ্ধাহত মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের সঠিক চিকিৎসা নিশ্চিত করার দাবি।

এ ছাড়া মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের সঠিক তালিকা প্রণয়ন এবং নব্য রাজাকারদের বিচারের আহ্বানও ছিল ইছামের দাবিনামায়। রাজাকারমুক্ত দেশ গড়ার জন্য সরকারের প্রতি আহ্বানও জানায় এই ‘খুদে মুক্তিযোদ্ধা’।

শুধু ইছাম-ই নয়, আওয়ামী লীগের এ বিজয় শোভাযাত্রায় বিভিন্ন সাজে এসেছিলেন নেতা-কর্মীরাও। তাদের কেউ মুক্তিযোদ্ধা, কেউ রাজাকার কিংবা পাক হানাদার বাহিনীর সদস্যের সাজে সেজেছিলেন।

র‌্যালিতে অংশ নেওয়া নেতা-কর্মীরা জানান, আওয়ামী লীগের নেতৃত্বে বাংলাদেশের জনগণ পাকিস্তানি হানাদার বাহিনী ও তাদের এ দেশীয় দোসরদের বিরুদ্ধে লড়াই করে এ দিন বিজয় অর্জন করে স্বাধীন হয়েছিল। তাই এ দিনটি (১৬ ডিসেম্বর) তাদের আনন্দের দিন। এ আনন্দের বহিঃপ্রকাশ ঘটাতেই বর্ণিল সাজে তারা শোভাযাত্রায় অংশ নিয়েছেন।

উৎসঃ _বাংলা ট্রিবিউন_


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## Banglar Bir

Zulfikar Bhutto Interview on Bangladesh





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1063549893726888


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## Banglar Bir

Indian Army looting money from Bangladeshis in 1971 war (video)

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/indian-a...eshis-in-1971-war-video.467775/#ixzz4TMoCGjAd

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## Centaur

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> There were options! if u hadnt played in the hands of indian proxy and bloody politicians........ just imagine where we would have been today!
> 
> A country with 3 or 4th largest army,30-40 billion dollars in reserves! A diverse country! ...... heck Pakistan was created by people of both countries! not just west pakistanis!
> 
> Imagine wat they would be feeling today!
> Brothers killing brothers and the enemy winning!
> 
> .................
> 
> I was born in the 90s! but still whenever i think abt BD i get goose bumps and tears roll out of my eyes!A very bad pain rises from my heart tht paralyzes my soul!
> 
> Once U were my brother my country fellow! i would have given my life for u!
> But today where do u stand? who won 71 war?Pakistan?Bangladesh? NO neither......... india did!
> 
> *With tears in eyes and pain in my heart"Oh! deathly cold December, thou shall always be in mourning". *


I agree my dear brother.India separated us, and some elites, politicians and some pseudo intellectuals who were actually indian paid agents i believe.
Bangalis never voted for seperation. And only 56% vote cast from former east pakistan and no one voted for seperation,bit they simply voted to make mujib the Prime minister.
Pakistan was the greatest and strongest muslim country always.but liers broke the country for whom our ancestors fought and gave there life.
Actually by seperating us, indian took revenge on us .

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## asad71

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10210631151787538&set=pcb.10210631152467555&type=3&theater

We could not even provide berets/caps or web belts to our cadets training at Murty, NE. The pix shows Saeed receiving the Best Cadet's trophy from Actg President Syed Nazrul Islam. Saeed rose to be a Maj Gen and ambassador.


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## Homo Sapiens

Some laugh in this otherwise a grim thread.

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## Arefin007

haha still remember this thread anubis doyelbaba running after me

where is major d1 bro btw? doesn't respond to emails now. also can't find his profile. anyone having contact with him say hi to him for me


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## Centaur

texfab said:


> Mistakes were made by both sides political mistakes aside. Mujeeb could have been writing but his 5 points were enough to strengthen this divide foundation of which was laid in Agartala conspericy.


I agree partially, there should have been 5 points instead of 6. Because different central bank and currency is terrible idea.
But indeed sheikh mujeeb had nothing to do with agartala conspiracy .other were the villain;enemies were hidding in awami league,and mujeeb was a type of hostage to them.





> As for military I think that hard line bangali are more to be blamed.


 agree


> There minds were poisoned by Mujeeb ur Rahman to the extend that they lifted armed against their own Army.


Totally disagree .Actually sheikh mujeeb did not declare independence nor he poisoned the mind of bengali.almost all bengalis were faithful to pakistan. And sheikh never provoked against pakistan, if he did why pakistan did not arrest or shoot him? He was hostage to the traitors of his own party( was pakistan also not a hostage to india and as a result her East wing has been cut?)
and willingly surrender to army so that army can take care of the traitors and R&AW agents.
Btw, pakistan is just not a land of west pakistan (currently pakistan), but both side were pakistan and if a Qaed e azam could manage a corridor to connect both pakistan then pakistan would never break.

But as i said pakistan is an identity not only one ot two piece of land. If there were south and north pakistan and all were seperated and renamed still the two nation theory never dies.
Only problem was communication .3200 miles (via colombo) distance is not a game to comunicate between two wings(and if sri lanka did not aid pakistan and would not open her port to pakistan, pakistan would have lost the war long before 16 december because of insufficient manpower and logistics in East pakistan). And that time there was no internet. And if technology was far more advanced, pakistan would not break even both wing share no land border.
Keep in mind that pakistani army did not lose until india directly attack East pakistan. *Mukti bahini ( some are paid agents of india and some are brain washed fools)
Faild to capture any single district or sub district of East pakistan. Why? Because East pakistani bengalis prevented them from the traitors.*
And then when problem was about to solve then india directly attack East pakistan ( how many time Soviet would use veto?),set naval blockade and pakistan failed to break the blockade and bengalis lost their homeland pakistan because of the foolish act of yahyah. He should have understand the war plan of india and should send more army to fortify East pakistan but he didn't. East pakistan was captured by india, and when mujeeb returns he forced indian army to withdraw.
And the name already changed to bangladesh and mujeeb was unable to protest india, *as pakistan lost 1971 war so if mujib would go against india, india could hostile takeover east pakistan by propogating another theory*
Thanks to allah and thanks to mujeeb that for his eye washing co operation, _*we didn't have to accept the fate of Hyderabad.*_
Finally bangladesh is East pakistan (by two nation feelings) and it will always remain east pakistan ( because two nation theory was for pakistan a muslim homeland) just name is changed by india.and india can't rule the mind of our peoples.
Yes you can call it *independent/separated East pakistan* i will not disagree.

Finally Jay bangla & Pakistan zindabad or jiye pakistan ( this part is removed) slogan that exactly mujeeb said in 7 march Jay bangla for bengali and Pakistan zindabad for *united pakistan*.



> On the other hand the sole mistake of military crack down was to prevent splitting of Pakistan.


Again my friend it was never ever a mistake. Pakistan should do this long before 1971 and with great force.
She failed to win the mental war against india and then india forcefully taken our identity as pakistani.
Well but india can never rule our mind never. *As hindus and Muslims can never ever be the same nation,but always two nation.*

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## asad71

Indian Intel must have penetrated into W Pak military and politics. Bhutto was definitely working for them. I suspect, so was Mithha. Bhutto's role in '65 and '71, and Mithha's over-enthusiasm in overstepping the limits of the original Ops Order for Op Searchlight need to be investigated jointly by ISI and DGFI.

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## Banglar Bir

Saheed Nadir, a real Hero of 1971.
Sorry the heroic deeds of valient freedom fighter Saheed Nadir, of the then old town of Dacca, is in Bangla,as such refrained from up loading the same,as I at my age hate being warned by any forums administrators.


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## tariq luqman

If We Go Through This whole False Stories of Pakistan Army Targeting Bengali One seems Surprised where are the 2 Million Biharis Who Murdered Them.
The Census Clearly Reflects There were around 3 Million Biharis in East Pakistan.
When Dhaka Fall there No was Just 300000 so where Were The Bihari Gone
These were Killed By The Indian Army and Mukti Bahini and Put the Blame on Pakistan Army.
We Pakistan dont Believe in concoted Stories. 
Indian Army themselves Admitted They were In East Pakistan under The False Flag Mukti Bahini.
This is Just Distortion of Facts
Where The Bihari Gone.

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## Banglar Bir




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## Banglar Bir

https://www.globalvillagespace.com/93000-pakistani-soldiers-did-not-surrender-in-1971-because/
*93,000 Pakistani soldiers did not surrender in 1971 because….?*
April 1, 2017 




Dr. Junaid Ahmad|

December 16, 1971, was an ominous day for Pakistan, because the Pakistani army’s scattered divisions sandwiched between an internal insurgency supported by Indian war machine and Indian army columns finally decided to surrender. To this day popular imagination and rhetoric is that 93,000 soldiers of Pakistan surrendered to victorious India and were taken as POWs (Prisoners of War).

_But the funny thing is: Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on ground in former east-Pakistan. So where the magical figure of 93,000 came from? _

This highly exaggerated figure is sustained by Indian, Bangladeshi, international and even Pakistani media. Many Pakistani politicians, out of spite for army, keep on repeating the cliched figure. Ironically, this propagated number has remained unchallenged and is also widely believed in Pakistan, as few accounts have been written to challenge it and today reportedly 65% of Pakistanis are younger than 35 years of age who have no idea of what happened, 45 years ago, in 1971.

But the funny thing is: Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on ground in former east-Pakistan. So where the magical figure of 93,000 came from?

*How many Pakistani troops were in East Pakistan? *
_The number of 93,000 soldiers that is talked about has been conflated with civilians. West Pakistani civilians who were present in large numbers in former East-Pakistan were taken over into custody by Indian army to protect them from revengeful Bengali crowds and Mukit Bahni._

Undisputed fact is that Pakistan had only one corps comprising three divisions in East Pakistan during 1971. In fact when operation search light began on 25th March, 1971, the total number of Pakistani troops on ground were around 27,000. More troops were sent from west Pakistan but they had to arrive through a long circuitous route since India had blocked air route over India taking advantage of the famous “Ganga Hijacking Case” (believed to be a false flag planned by RAW for this purpose)

The three divisions, of Pakistan army, by end November 1971, comprised a total force of 45,000, on books, including combatant and non-combatant troops. Out of these, there were 34,000 combatant troops and the remaining 11,000 were non-combatants, supporting men and CAF personnel. But between six to seven thousand Pakistani soldiers died in the war also.

_It was also helpful in putting meat to the story of three million killed, hundreds and thousands of rapes and genocide. An army of less than 40,000, spread over a large theatre of conflict under attack from guerrillas supported by Indian army was hardly in a situation of doing what it was accused of. _

This one corp was pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants. When the total number of Pakistan army troops ranged between 34,000 to 45,000 how could 93,000 soldiers surrender?

From time to time various officers and commentators have attempted clarifying the myth but the power of first narrative is such that still the figure of 93,000 POW’s sticks in popular imagination.

According to Lt Gen Naizi, Corps Commander of Eastern Command in 1971.

“_The total fighting strength available to me [Gen Naizi] was forty-five thousand – 34,000 from the army, plus 11,000 from CAF and West Pakistan civilian police and armed non-combatants”who were fighting against the insurgents. Even if the strength of HL, MLA, depots, training institutes, workshops, factories, nurses_ _and lady doctors, non-combatants like barbers, cooks, shoemakers and sweepers are added, even then the total comes to only 55,000_.

Air Marshal Rahim khan, CNC Pakistan Air Force (1969-1972), had stated:

“_The number of regular Pakistani troops in East Pakistan never exceeded 33,000-34,000. The rest is just propaganda by India and the Awami League, to magnify their success….”_

Air Marshal Zulfiqar Ali Khan, who commended Eastern Wing of Pakistan Air Forces had asserted the same in these words:

“_At the maximum, our regular fighting force in East Pakistan in December 1971 stood at 34,000. This figure does not include paramilitary personnel, military police, etc. Even if you include the auxiliaries, the total does not cross 45,000”_.

General Akhtar Abdul Rehman. Former Vice Chief of Army Staff, speaking on the 1971 conundrum stated

“_It was impossible for the 34,000 Pakistani troops in East Pakistan or for that matter any army in the world to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and 170,000 Mukti Bahini, If not more, that too in a hostile environment 1200 miles away from West Pakistan …… Keeping into account all this, if the Indians still feel that they achieved a stunning military victory against Pakistan, I can only say they have fallen prey to their own propaganda”_.

US congressman, Charles Wilson (famous for Charlie Wilson’s War) in a discussion with Pakistani diplomats in Washington DC remarked.

_“……In 1971, it was certainly not possible for the 35,000 Pakistani troops in Dhaka to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and the more than 100,000 Indian-trained Bengali guerillas.”_

Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,

“_Pakistanis are energetic, vibrant, and resilient. We must not be misled by 1971. It was certainly not possible for the 40,000 odd Pakistani army in Dhaka to fight against much larger Indian army and Indian-trained Bengali Bahinis in a hostile territory ….”_

K C Pant, Indian former Defense Minister in September, 1994 during a discussion on Indo-Pak relations held in New Delhi, said

“_Peace is important between Pakistan and India. We respect the professional competence of the Pakistani soldier. Had democracy continued in Pakistan, Islamabad would not have suffered the debacle resulting in the surrender of its 40,000 military personnel to India in East Pakistan”_.

Sarmila Bose, the famous Indian Bengali writer and Associate Researcher at Oxford University in her book _Dead Reckoning_ published in 2011, asserts

_“…… t appears that while the total figure in Indian custody is about right, to state that 93,000 soldiers were taken prisoner is wrong, and creates confusions by greatly inflating the Pakistani fighting force in East Pakistan”.

Javed Jabbar, former Pakistani Minister of Information in his article, Estranged siblings-Pakistan and Bangladesh, 40 years later, wrote

“Pakistan’s armed forces did not exceed 45,000 troops at optimal levels. The 90,000 prisoners-of-war held by India included over 50,000 non- combatant, unarmed West Pakistani civilians.”

S. M. Hali, a well-known Pakistani analyst in his article, Breaking myths of 1971 Pak-India war writes,

“The total strength of Pakistan Army in East Pakistan (in 1971) was 40,000….”

All the aforementioned references point toward one fact that the number of total army personnel who surrendered were far less than 93,000. Whereas my research shows that they were only around 34,000 but in any case they could not have been more than 40,000. The number of 93,000 soldiers that is talked about has been conflated with civilians. West Pakistani civilians who were present in large numbers in former East-Pakistan were taken over into custody by Indian army to protect them from revengeful Bengali crowds and Mukit Bahni.

The figure of 93,000 also included children, women, civil administration officials and staff, non-combatant troops such as nurses, doctors, cooks, barbers, shoemakers, carpenters and others. The higher number talked about was a deliberate attempt to defame and demoralize Pakistani army, to demonstrate to the world extent of Indian victory. It was also helpful in putting meat to the story of three million killed, hundreds and thousands of rapes and genocide. An army of less than 40,000, spread over a large theatre of conflict under attack from guerrillas supported by Indian army was hardly in a situation of doing what it was accused of.

The total figure, a mix of soldiers and civilians was deliberately floated by Indians, and later by Bangladeshis to support their case for victimization. In Pakistan, a clever Bhutto used this for various reasons of his own politics. No one ever wanted to clarify. In reality, the actual number of Pakistani troops who surrendered on 16th December 1971 was only around 34,000.

Piece by Dr Junaid Ahmad, Author of ‘Creation of Bangladesh: Myths Exploded.’ Additional comments and editing by Editorial Desk of Global Village Space._

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## asad71

http://bangladeshchronicle.net/2017...-release-93000-pakistani-pows-after-1971-war/

*The Untold Story of India’s Decision to Release 93,000 Pakistani POWs After 1971 War*
March 26, 2017 | Filed under: South Asia | Posted by: gms


*The Untold Story of India’s Decision to Release 93,000 Pakistani POWs After 1971 War*
By Sashanka S. Banerjee on 26/03/2017
*Indira Gandhi’s biggest worry after the surrender of Pakistan in 1971 was the safety of Mujibur Rahman. The release of Pakistani POWs was the price Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto (and the ISI) extracted for the safe return of the Bangladeshi leader.*


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## Banglar Bir

*Diplomats’ role during liberation war of Bangladesh*

*Mohammad Amjad Hossain*

Diplomacy is the first defence while war is the second defence of the country’s sovereignty. The role of diplomats played in mobilizing public opinion around the world from April of 1971 following Pakistan army’s crackdown on unarmed people in erstwhile East Pakistan which is separated from Western part of Pakistan about 1200 miles over Indian territory. The role played by diplomats would be written in red letter the history of Independent Bangladesh.
Defection of Bangladeshi diplomats in Pakistan embassies around the world mobilized public opinion against Pakistan’s atrocities and genocidal activities in what was then East Pakistan. Even American diplomat, in particular, Archer Blood, American Consul-General in Dacca, who relentlessly highlighted the events in Bangladesh in his diplomatic cables though they were met with deafening silence in Washington.

*Defections of Bengali diplomats*
Eventually Blood lost his job in the State Department at the instigation of Henry Kissinger, National Security advisor under President Richard Nixon and Secretary of State to President Gerald Ford. Gary J Bass in the book: ‘The Blood Telegram’ which reflected the moral bankruptcy of US leaders, pointed out that Archer Blood was not allowed to protest to the Pakistan authorities but started sending in a blistering cables tagged selective genocide, urging his bosses to speak out against atrocities being committed by the Pakistani military regime.

On 6 April most staff members of the Dhaka American Consulate practically revolted against the Nixon administration by sending telegram “for silence in the face of atrocities”. Archer Blood is no more in this world but US embassy in Dhaka established a library in Archer Blood’s name to show respect. He was source of information to BBC and other news agencies for disseminating information at a time when Military government of Pakistan bundled 36 foreign correspondents out of Dhaka on 28 March 1971. He was recalled a few months later.

This is one side of story of the diplomats. On the other hand, Pakistan’s President Gen. Yahya Khan’s faith retaining unified Pakistan was shattered when 14 diplomats posted in Pakistan embassy in Washington, including present Finance Minister AMA Muhith, declared allegiance on 5 August, 1971 to the government of Bangladesh in exile. The declaration of allegiance had caused serious repercussions in Islamabad. That was reflected in the briefing session of the officers by Dr. Maqbool Bhatti, Director-General of External Publicity and National affairs on 16 August where this writer was present.

*How Kolkata mission created*
The Director General only regretted and wished them well as some Senior Bangladeshi diplomats were his batch mate in foreign service, and said that situation would be normal soon in East Pakistan. I was the only Bengali officer amidst the Punjabis and Sindhis present. Another Bengali officer Ezrajul Alam from Press Information department was appointed on an ad hoc basis a few months early. This writer left Islamabad on 27 August on leave via Karachi and Colombo in Sri Lanka because India had disallowed air traffic to overfly to Dhaka. This writer did not join after expiry of leave in November, 1971.

In fact the ball began to roll at the Pakistan Deputy High Commission in Calcutta (now Kolkata) when as many as 60 diplomats and non-diplomats under the leadership of Pakistan’s Deputy High Commissioner Hossain Ali declared allegiance to Bangladesh government in exile on 18 April. It happened just a day after the Bangladesh government in exile was formed under the leadership of Mr. Tajuddin Ahmad, an unsung hero.

Deputy High commissioner Hossain Ali’s decision was important as it facilitated Bangladesh government in exile to use the High Commission office as its secretariat. Hossain Ali also made history by hoisting Bangladesh flag in the chancery. Both Deputy High commissioner and third secretary Mr. Anwarul Karim Chowdhury worked tirelessly as spokespersons of Bangladesh government in exile. Pakistan government lodged protest to Indian government and sought assistance for repatriation of diplomats to Pakistan but without any success.

This was an all-time record in the history of diplomacy when diplomats and officials defected en masse to an emerging country. Second secretary Mohiuddin Ahmed from London defected on April 10 who was the first diplomat from London’s Pakistan embassy.

*Top Bengali ambassadors joined*
The name of Khwaja Mohammad Kaiser may be mentioned in this context who served as Pakistan Ambassador to China who remained in his post at the advice of the Bangladesh government in exile who repatriated to Bangladesh some time in 1972. Ambassador Kaiser was a close friend of Chinese Prime Minister Chou En Lai who gave him farewell dinner in his honor. Ambassador Abul Fateh was in Iraq as Pakistan Ambassador. Ambassador K.K. Panni from Manila and Ambassador Abdul Momen from Argentina defected as well. Pakistan government sent warrant of arrest against Ambassador Abul Fateh, who withdrew entire amount of twenty five thousand pounds from Embassy’s bank account and gave to Bangladesh government in exile through Indian Ambassador in Iraq.
The first in the series of defection began with K.M. Shehabuddin, Second Secretary and Amjadul Haq, Assistant Press Attache in New Delhi followed by A.H. Mahmood Ali in New York who is now serving as Foreign Minister of Sheikh Hasina’s Awami League government.

Among the high ranking diplomats, who declared their allegiance for Bangladesh, names of Abdul Fatah, Abdul Momin, K.K Panni and Abdul Momen are worth mentioning. All of them were holding Ambassadorial assignments.
Officially, the first Bangladesh mission was set up in Calcutta on 18 April, 1971 when Bengali diplomats stopped normal functioning at Pakistan Deputy High Commission and converted it into Bangladesh mission. It was followed by an Information Centre in New Delhi on 26 April with K.M.Shehabuddin as its chief.

*Abu Sayeed Chowdhury, others*
On December 06, 1971 Bangladesh government in exile decided to open trade missions in USSR, Romania, and Czechoslovakia etc. to establish commercial relations with different countries until Bangladesh is recognized by international community. The Government of India gave green signal to operate Bangladesh Trade Mission from Calcutta. That was indeed a success story of diplomacy in pre-liberation days.

The role played by Justice Abu Sayeed Choudhury, after quitting the position of head of Pakistan delegation to the United Nations Human Rights Commission in Geneva, was very effective indeed. Justice Abu Sayeed along with Bengali diplomats in different parts of the world played a significant role in mobilizing public opinion against genocide and in favour of recognition of Bangladesh. The role of first Foreign Secretary Mahbubul Alam Chashi, who resigned in protest from Pakistan Foreign service during the regime of Gen. Ayub Khan, has many caps to his credit in dealing with foreign policy during crucial days of Bangladesh. It would be unfair to ignore the role of Iqbal Ather, a Pakistani diplomat, who resigned in protest from Ambassadorship in Italy against repressive measures in erstwhile East Pakistan. Iqbal Ather joined the diplomatic corps of the newly independent Bangladesh and contributed towards improving the image of Bangladesh along with Ambassador Ataur Rahman in Arab and African countries.

Mohammad Amjad Hossain, retired diplomat from Bangladesh and former President of Nova chapter of prestigious Toastmasters International Club of America, writes from Virginia.


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## asad71

BANGLAR BIR said:


> https://www.globalvillagespace.com/93000-pakistani-soldiers-did-not-surrender-in-1971-because/
> *93,000 Pakistani soldiers did not surrender in 1971 because….?*
> April 1, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Junaid Ahmad|
> 
> December 16, 1971, was an ominous day for Pakistan, because the Pakistani army’s scattered divisions sandwiched between an internal insurgency supported by Indian war machine and Indian army columns finally decided to surrender. To this day popular imagination and rhetoric is that 93,000 soldiers of Pakistan surrendered to victorious India and were taken as POWs (Prisoners of War).
> 
> _But the funny thing is: Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on ground in former east-Pakistan. So where the magical figure of 93,000 came from? _
> 
> This highly exaggerated figure is sustained by Indian, Bangladeshi, international and even Pakistani media. Many Pakistani politicians, out of spite for army, keep on repeating the cliched figure. Ironically, this propagated number has remained unchallenged and is also widely believed in Pakistan, as few accounts have been written to challenge it and today reportedly 65% of Pakistanis are younger than 35 years of age who have no idea of what happened, 45 years ago, in 1971.
> 
> But the funny thing is: Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on ground in former east-Pakistan. So where the magical figure of 93,000 came from?
> 
> *How many Pakistani troops were in East Pakistan? *
> _The number of 93,000 soldiers that is talked about has been conflated with civilians. West Pakistani civilians who were present in large numbers in former East-Pakistan were taken over into custody by Indian army to protect them from revengeful Bengali crowds and Mukit Bahni._
> 
> Undisputed fact is that Pakistan had only one corps comprising three divisions in East Pakistan during 1971. In fact when operation search light began on 25th March, 1971, the total number of Pakistani troops on ground were around 27,000. More troops were sent from west Pakistan but they had to arrive through a long circuitous route since India had blocked air route over India taking advantage of the famous “Ganga Hijacking Case” (believed to be a false flag planned by RAW for this purpose)
> 
> The three divisions, of Pakistan army, by end November 1971, comprised a total force of 45,000, on books, including combatant and non-combatant troops. Out of these, there were 34,000 combatant troops and the remaining 11,000 were non-combatants, supporting men and CAF personnel. But between six to seven thousand Pakistani soldiers died in the war also.
> 
> _It was also helpful in putting meat to the story of three million killed, hundreds and thousands of rapes and genocide. An army of less than 40,000, spread over a large theatre of conflict under attack from guerrillas supported by Indian army was hardly in a situation of doing what it was accused of. _
> 
> This one corp was pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants. When the total number of Pakistan army troops ranged between 34,000 to 45,000 how could 93,000 soldiers surrender?
> 
> From time to time various officers and commentators have attempted clarifying the myth but the power of first narrative is such that still the figure of 93,000 POW’s sticks in popular imagination.
> 
> According to Lt Gen Naizi, Corps Commander of Eastern Command in 1971.
> 
> “_The total fighting strength available to me [Gen Naizi] was forty-five thousand – 34,000 from the army, plus 11,000 from CAF and West Pakistan civilian police and armed non-combatants”who were fighting against the insurgents. Even if the strength of HL, MLA, depots, training institutes, workshops, factories, nurses_ _and lady doctors, non-combatants like barbers, cooks, shoemakers and sweepers are added, even then the total comes to only 55,000_.
> 
> Air Marshal Rahim khan, CNC Pakistan Air Force (1969-1972), had stated:
> 
> “_The number of regular Pakistani troops in East Pakistan never exceeded 33,000-34,000. The rest is just propaganda by India and the Awami League, to magnify their success….”_
> 
> Air Marshal Zulfiqar Ali Khan, who commended Eastern Wing of Pakistan Air Forces had asserted the same in these words:
> 
> “_At the maximum, our regular fighting force in East Pakistan in December 1971 stood at 34,000. This figure does not include paramilitary personnel, military police, etc. Even if you include the auxiliaries, the total does not cross 45,000”_.
> 
> General Akhtar Abdul Rehman. Former Vice Chief of Army Staff, speaking on the 1971 conundrum stated
> 
> “_It was impossible for the 34,000 Pakistani troops in East Pakistan or for that matter any army in the world to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and 170,000 Mukti Bahini, If not more, that too in a hostile environment 1200 miles away from West Pakistan …… Keeping into account all this, if the Indians still feel that they achieved a stunning military victory against Pakistan, I can only say they have fallen prey to their own propaganda”_.
> 
> US congressman, Charles Wilson (famous for Charlie Wilson’s War) in a discussion with Pakistani diplomats in Washington DC remarked.
> 
> _“……In 1971, it was certainly not possible for the 35,000 Pakistani troops in Dhaka to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and the more than 100,000 Indian-trained Bengali guerillas.”_
> 
> Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,
> 
> “_Pakistanis are energetic, vibrant, and resilient. We must not be misled by 1971. It was certainly not possible for the 40,000 odd Pakistani army in Dhaka to fight against much larger Indian army and Indian-trained Bengali Bahinis in a hostile territory ….”_
> 
> K C Pant, Indian former Defense Minister in September, 1994 during a discussion on Indo-Pak relations held in New Delhi, said
> 
> “_Peace is important between Pakistan and India. We respect the professional competence of the Pakistani soldier. Had democracy continued in Pakistan, Islamabad would not have suffered the debacle resulting in the surrender of its 40,000 military personnel to India in East Pakistan”_.
> 
> Sarmila Bose, the famous Indian Bengali writer and Associate Researcher at Oxford University in her book _Dead Reckoning_ published in 2011, asserts
> 
> _“…… t appears that while the total figure in Indian custody is about right, to state that 93,000 soldiers were taken prisoner is wrong, and creates confusions by greatly inflating the Pakistani fighting force in East Pakistan”.
> 
> Javed Jabbar, former Pakistani Minister of Information in his article, Estranged siblings-Pakistan and Bangladesh, 40 years later, wrote
> 
> “Pakistan’s armed forces did not exceed 45,000 troops at optimal levels. The 90,000 prisoners-of-war held by India included over 50,000 non- combatant, unarmed West Pakistani civilians.”
> 
> S. M. Hali, a well-known Pakistani analyst in his article, Breaking myths of 1971 Pak-India war writes,
> 
> “The total strength of Pakistan Army in East Pakistan (in 1971) was 40,000….”
> 
> All the aforementioned references point toward one fact that the number of total army personnel who surrendered were far less than 93,000. Whereas my research shows that they were only around 34,000 but in any case they could not have been more than 40,000. The number of 93,000 soldiers that is talked about has been conflated with civilians. West Pakistani civilians who were present in large numbers in former East-Pakistan were taken over into custody by Indian army to protect them from revengeful Bengali crowds and Mukit Bahni.
> 
> The figure of 93,000 also included children, women, civil administration officials and staff, non-combatant troops such as nurses, doctors, cooks, barbers, shoemakers, carpenters and others. The higher number talked about was a deliberate attempt to defame and demoralize Pakistani army, to demonstrate to the world extent of Indian victory. It was also helpful in putting meat to the story of three million killed, hundreds and thousands of rapes and genocide. An army of less than 40,000, spread over a large theatre of conflict under attack from guerrillas supported by Indian army was hardly in a situation of doing what it was accused of.
> 
> The total figure, a mix of soldiers and civilians was deliberately floated by Indians, and later by Bangladeshis to support their case for victimization. In Pakistan, a clever Bhutto used this for various reasons of his own politics. No one ever wanted to clarify. In reality, the actual number of Pakistani troops who surrendered on 16th December 1971 was only around 34,000.
> 
> Piece by Dr Junaid Ahmad, Author of ‘Creation of Bangladesh: Myths Exploded.’ Additional comments and editing by Editorial Desk of Global Village Space._



Speaking of numbers, India continuously breast thumps that they have lost 1,670 soldiers here. And conveniently ignores that we lost 70,000 Mukti Bahini men beside others.


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## NKVD

asad71 said:


> Speaking of numbers, India continuously breast thumps that they have lost 1,670 soldiers here. And conveniently ignores that we lost 70,000 Mukti Bahini men beside others.


Is India's Duty fight your war ??? your Million refugees Invaded our Western states And Exploited our resources 

Its Not our fault that you Fighting A Professional Army With Amoured Brigade If Hadn't Been To India Pakistan Eastern command Might ended the Uprising In year or So

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## asad71

NKVD said:


> Is India's Duty fight your war ??? your Million refugees Invaded our Western states And Exploited our resources
> 
> Its Not our fault that you Fighting A Professional Army With Amoured Brigade If Hadn't Been To India Pakistan Eastern command Might ended the Uprising In year or So



Since you know nothing, just shut up.

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## asad71

NKVD said:


> Is India's Duty fight your war ??? your Million refugees Invaded our Western states And Exploited our resources
> 
> Its Not our fault that you Fighting A Professional Army With Amoured Brigade If Hadn't Been To India Pakistan Eastern command Might ended the Uprising In year or So



Then why did you fight? Why? Because there were immense advantages to be gained for the Hindu agenda in SA.

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## Banglar Bir

*The role of Journalists during war of liberation*

*Mohammad Amjad Hossain*

The role of journalists during war of liberation of Bangladesh could hardly be overemphasised. A batch of 36 foreign journalists who came to erstwhile East Pakistan to cover talks between Gen. Yahya Khan, President of Pakistan, Z.A Bhutto, President of Pakistan People’s Party and Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, President of Awami League who won majority seats in general election held in November 1970 in Pakistan, were bundled out of the country from Dacca (now Dhaka) Intercontinental Hotel on the eve of preplanned crack down by the Pakistan army on the unarmed people.
The incident took place on fateful night of 26 March 1971. The army cracked down on the unsuspecting people of Dhaka without any warning almost everywhere. They attacked the dormitories of Dhaka University, and also concentrated their bombardments at the Shankari Patti area in old Dacca, Rajarbagh police HQ, East Pakistan Rifle HQ. The main reason to bundle out of foreign journalists was to conceal from the World what they intended to do in the provincial capital to frighten the people. Foreign journalists were stripped of all notes, cameras and documents and forced to fly to Karachi.
However, the truth could not be suppressed. Luckily Simon Dring of Daily Telegraph of London and Michael Lawrence, a French photographer of Associate Press news agency escaped the official dragnet. The game of Pakistan military leader Gen. Yahya Khan was exposed by Simon Dring in his report to Daily Telegraph. I quote a brief report of Simon Dring as reported by Journalist David Loshak, South-Asia bureau chief of London’s Daily Telegraph and Sunday Telegraph in his book: Pakistan Crisis. Simon Dring gave an eyewitness accounts of terror campaign by saying “the first targets as the tanks rolled into Dacca were the students lived. Caught completely by surprise some two hundred students were killed in Iqbal Hall, headquarters of the militantly anti government student’s union, as shells slammed into the building and their rooms were sprayed with machine gun fire.”
After one month of massacres by Pakistan army a group of Pakistan Journalists were flown from Karachi to show them the situation in erstwhile East Pakistan was under control. One of reporters, Anthony Mascarenhas, Assistant Editor of Daily Morning News of Karachi and stringer of Sunday Times of London managed to flee Karachi on his return and had exposed the startling and heinous crime of the Pakistan army in East Pakistan. He described the killings in East Pakistan as” Pogrom”. In his article on genocide in the Sunday Times on 13 June,1971 created hell for Pakistan government which provided insight story of cruel behavior of ruthless violation of human rights.
That and some other stories of atrocities by the Pak army persuaded Prime Minister of India Indira Gandhi to take a stand against Pakistan. Anthony Mascarenhas wrote two books on Bangladesh including massacres in erstwhile East Pakistan: The rape of Bangladesh and the legacy of Blood. In 1972 he was awarded the Granada’s Gerald Barry award for lifetime achievement in journalism as well as the International publishing company’s special award for reporting on the human rights violation committed during war of liberation of Bangladesh. During the regime of Gen. Ershad Anthony Mascarenhas visited Bangladesh as his guest sometime in August of 1985 and interviewed him. The legacy of blood appeared in 1986.
Sydney Schanberg of New York Times managed to preserve his notes from marauding Pakistan army who reported that the army started shooting at students coming from the University, up the road from about a mile. They were singing patriotic songs in Bengali. And then the army opened up. We could not tell when they hit the ground if they were ducking or killed. They headed for a newspaper. The English-language newspaper The People and Daily Ittefaq were the target of the army.
Peter Hazelhurst of The Times of London gave wide coverage of atrocities in erstwhile East Pakistan by Pakistan army. According to Professor Rehman Sobhan, Sydney Schanberg, Selig Harrison and Simon Dring “went beyond the call of professional duty in projecting the struggle of the Bengalis before their readers”. John Pilger reported in Daily Mirror of London on 16 June under the caption: Death of a nation gave vivid description of torture meted out by Pakistan army.
From erstwhile East Pakistan ABM Musa of Pakistan Observer, Moinul Alam, Chittagong bureau chief of Daily Ittefaq, Taheruddin Thakur, Political reporter of Daily Ittefaq, M.R. Akhtar, Bureau Chief of UPI news agency managed to secured safe places in Tripura in adjoining Indian state of Tripura after initial stage of army crackdown. Editor of Daily Azadi of Chittagong Mohammad Khaled was one of them. Mohammad Khaled, Taheruddin Thakur and M. R. Akhtar were working for Shadhin Bangla Betar (Free Bengal Radio) and M.R. Akhtar became famous with his satirical Charompatra. People stranded in erstwhile East Pakistan during war of liberation was avid listener of Charompatra and the Shadhin Bangla Betar.
This writer has had excellent relations with Mohammad Khaled and Moyenul Alam while he served News organization of Chittagong Radio from 1963-1965 as Assistant editor. Wahidul Huq of Pakistan Observer —- a connoisseur of Rabindra Sangeet—organized cultural team in Calcutta during war of liberation.
Bangladeshi journalist S.M. Ali who was the roving foreign editor of Singapore-based The New Nation in an article in the International Herald Tribune from Saigon in a pseudonym had exposed Yahya Khan’s false claim that the revolt of the Bengalee’s in the country was an internal affairs of Pakistan. The article appeared on 9 August 1971.
War between India and Pakistan, Pakistan’s threat to quit Commonwealth, the decision by the World Bank to stop financing the government of Yahya Khan and concerns expressed by the Senate of the United States, reflected that the Bangladesh crackdown has become an international crisis.
Another Bangladeshi journalist Abdul Matin who had settled in London sometimes in the early 1960s, brought out a newsletter in April of 1971 in collaboration with Tasadduque Ahmed and his wife Rosemary Ahmed to publish news emanating from Bangladesh. Abdul Matin snapped his relations with Pakistan Observer as its London Correspondent after the army crackdownPakistan. Pakistani journalist Farid Jaffery who married Rokeya Anwar, Awami League MP in East Pakistan became the editor of Bangladesh newsletter in London.
At one stage during 1971 Pakistan administration allowed some foreign journalists to enter erstwhile East Pakistan. Sydney Schanberg of the New York Times, who had been expelled in March took the advantage of visiting East Pakistan. He reported, the Pakistani Army personnel had painted ‘H’ in big yellow on the Hindu shops still standing in this town. Quoting Sydney Schanberg this was added by Gary Bass in his book: The Blood Telegram. “Sydney Schanberg saw Dacca half-deserted with fresh of troops arriving daily from West Pakistan at the airport”. This writer himself was a witness to the fact that many army personnel were being flown into Dacca from Karachi when he was flying on 27 August 1971 from Karachi by PIA.

Mohammad Amjad Hossain, retired diplomat, writes from Virginia, USA

আমাদের আসমা খালা
Lot of glorious Story made lot of history! But today I will tell another Story of a Very Brave Mother who was behind those entire glorious stories of whom not much is known ever! She is our beloved আসমা খালা. (Asma Khala). Yes! She is not only a caring mother of four but she is also a brave Mukti Mother of 2 brave FF Son. 
They are Subsector 4 commander Ruhel Ahmed Babu and Dhaka-Dhamrai Guerrilla Shoail Ahmed. For lot many other crack platoon guerrilla of Dhaka area she was just their আসমা খালা. Dhanmondi, House No 18, of Road No-7 was a Safe haven for lot of Mukti Jodha and all other people like me and our family! During April to December 1971 countless family and young guerrilla like famous Artist ShahabUddin Ahmed, crack platoon member Bachu Bhai and so many others took shelter under her supervision. 
She not only cooks extra food but also arrange fresh clothing, supporting money and medicine for hidden Guerrilla for their need. Her 2 story Dhanmondi House had a unique location. On the right side of that house was a big pond with clear water all the way up to Green Road. Lots of Coconut and other tree give a good cover. Her husband and our মামা(Maternal Uncle) late Mr.Noor-Ur-Rahman, a founder member of Awami League and close friend of Sheikh Mujib, an ex-federal Minister of Pakistan and had a very good liaison with various high level foreign and national source. Upper floor was already rented to UN delegate.
So it was a Safe Haven for Dhaka city Guerrilla. Some of those Flower pot were used to hide Explosive. Yes! Those flower pots with flower looks very fresh and beautiful! From the very beginning Muslim League Leader of Sylhet and an ex-Muslim league Minister Mahmood Ali and his wife were continuously bothering our আসমা খালা (Asma Khala) to collect information about his 2 son, Ruhel and Sohail. When she Failed to get any information from our আসমা খালা(Asam Khala), she make this comment with anger in Sylheti dialog " তুমার বাবু এ কিতা তুমারে কুছ ভোরিয়া স্বাধীনতা আনিয়া দিবনি?"( Is your Babu will bring Freedom as your Gift?) – Our আসমা খালা (Asma Khala) Keep her leap tight and hide her anger and did not reveal any information ever. আসমা খালা and her whole family were facing high danger every day during those 9 months. But they never lose their smile any time! Interestingly collaborator Mahmood Ali along with Mr. Z.A. Bhutto represent Pakistan in UN in December 1971 and he never come back to Bangladesh again! 
After surviving from Lalmonirhat I took shelter in Rangpur and then in Mid-August 1971, I came to this House and meet with my other Family member who were alive. I will also like to mention those two great caring Daughter of our আসমা খালা. Who were also took high risk and busy to help আসমা খালা to take care so many refugee and FF in that house. They are our Jugnoo Aapa and Sheloo Aapa. 
During Last phase of the war it become difficult to live in the same house because of continuous suspicious Al Badar watcher, so আসমা খালা and মামা decide to move to their Company Guest House in Road No 3. In this house over 25 people used to live till 18th, December 1971. Without their active support and bravery our guerrilla war was Impossible. *But I wonder, no one awarded them any certificate neither ever they ask for it! Our heart full Salute to our আসমা খালা - May Allah keep her in good health, long life with happiness. May Allah also bless our great মামা late Noor-ur-Rahman, who was like a light house for all of us to Jannah - Ameen.*


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## Banglar Bir

*Liberation War Museum presents the history*

People from all strata of society are visiting the newly-opened Liberation War Museum in Agargaon which offers a detailed and rich history of liberation war through displaying over 1000 photographs and other items in four galleries.
Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina inaugurated the new museum building in Agargaon on Sunday which comprises four galleries, auditorium, library, research centre, a temporary gallery, amphitheatre, office space, archive and lab.
Previously the museum operated at a private building in Segunbagicha for 21 years and it could not display a lot of artifacts due to lack of space. The new museum building has nine floors - three basements and six floors - with a display space of 1,85,000 sqft.
‘The museum possesses around 20,000 artifacts in total. Initially we have tried to present the history of liberation war by arranging minimum possible artifacts in four galleries in such a way so that a visitor can see all the displays in 45 minutes and get an idea about the liberation war’, said Ziauddin Tariq Ali, trustee and member secretary of the museum.
When visiting the museum this correspondent saw crowds thronging the galleries.
Visitors praised the way the artifacts have been displayed. Kariman Nesa, wife of a freedom fighter, who came with her son, said, ‘The museum is like a book on the liberation war’.
An aircraft used in the liberation war and bronze sculptures of founding president of the country Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and four national leaders Syed Nazrul Islam, Tajuddin Ahmed, Captain (rtd) Mansur Ali and AHM Quamruzzaman welcome visitors at the entrance.
The four galleries of the museum narrate the history of liberation war in four stages - from the war’s initial days to liberation of the country on December 16, 1971.
The first gallery named Our Heritage Our Struggle provides visitors with a brief historical background of the Ganges-Brahmaputra Delta by displaying terracotta artifacts, map of undivided Bengal, photographs of historical and archeological sites with information and photographs of major political events from British era to 1970s election. 
The second gallery named Our Rights Our Sacrifices shows different political events, upheavals, participation and sacrifices by people prior to the liberation war. 
The gallery displays a copy of the Proclamation of Independence of Bangladesh, photographs of formation and oath-taking of historical Mujibnagar Government in Meherpur. Memorabilia like clothes, notebooks, diaries, spectacles, pipes, wallets, utensils and others items used by historic figures like Tajuddin Ahmed, martyrs Jyotindranath Guhathakurta, Madhusudan Dey and many others. 
A dim-lighted room at the gallery displays photographs of Operation Searchlight showing atrocities by the Pakistan Army on the fateful night of March 25, 1971. The photographs show innocent people lying dead on the streets. 
The third gallery named Our Battles Our Friends depicts the events during the liberation war including life at different refugee camps in India.
Photographs depicting people’s plights at refugee camps are displayed at the entrance. A displayed tally shows an astounding number of 98, 99, 305 refugees who took shelter at 828 camps in India.
The gallery also shows photographs of cultural activists performing at different refugee and training camps, posters, memorabilia of freedom fighters, photographs and paper cuttings of coverage of the war by the international media and others.
The last gallery named Our Victory Our Values display photographs, documents, weapons used in the war and memorabilia depicting the last days of the liberation war.

*From war field to diplomacy: Major General K.M. Safiullah*
*Mohammad Amjad Hossain*

Diplomacy is the first line of defence of a country from external aggression while war is recognized second line of defence to protect the country. Major K.M. Safiullah of East Bengal regiment could not kept his eyes shut when marauding Pakistan army unleashed terror in killing unarmed defenceless people. He took up arms to fight against Pakistan like other members of East Bengal regiment based in erstwhile East Pakistan. I planned to write about Major-General K.M. Safiullah, first Chief of staff of the army in Bangladesh turned diplomat.
As luck would have it Major K.M. Safiullah from East Bengal regiment who had fought against occupation Pakistan army in sector 3 comprising Mymensingh, Brahmanbaria and Sylhet was promoted to the rank of Major-General on 7 April of 1972 and awarded gallantry award Bir Uttam. Major-General KM Safiullah served as Chief of staff of the army until 25 August of 1975 following changeover of the government of Awami League through coup d’état led by Junior army officers.
He was retired from the army and appointed the High Commissioner to Malaysia by Khandakar Mushtaq Ahmed and was there till 1981. Incidentally, I joined the Bangladesh embassy there as third secretary in 1977. It was a two-member embassy and I became the third home-based staff member.
Syed Nur Hossain was the first Secretary political. Curiously, the High commissioner asked me to keep my eyes and ears open. I was following internal and external issues carefully through news media and TV channels, apart from meetings with diplomats. Incidentally, I became member of three diplomatic groups in Kuala Lumpur. High commissioner asked me to write reports on such and such issue which I did. High commissioner had made changes here and there and sent them to the foreign office under his signature.
Since then I became his ghost writer. My assignment was to send reports on news media and to speak to the news media on the events in Bangladesh in a positive vein. On national day of Bangladesh I succeeded to telecast documentary film on Bangladesh. The New Straits Times, a prominent English daily of Malaysia, brought out two page special supplement on Bangladesh on 29 March of 1981 in connection with Independence day of Bangladesh for the first time during Maj-General KM Safiullah’s his tenure as High Commissioner. It was a stupendous task to collect advertisements to bring out special supplement in Malaysia.
High commissioner Safiullah had to receive President Ziaur Rahman in April of 1979 when he paid a two-day official visit. Major-Gen K.M. Safiullah was the chief of army staff while Major-General Ziaur Rahman served as Deputy Chief of Staff of the army during the same period. However, in the army list of seniority, General Zia was his senior. The 42-member delegation included two women parliamentarians and first lady Khaleda Zia. The Foreign Minister had instructed this writer to look after the first lady as well as the two women MPs. I succeeded to organize a trip to Malaysian museum for them. The visit of Bangladesh President took place following the visit of Malaysian Foreign Minister Tengku Ahmad Rithauddeen in April of 1978. Foreign policy of President Ziaur Rahman was to promote relations with Muslim countries, apart from America and Europe.
Credit, however, goes to High commissioner Major-General K.M. Safiullah for improvement of relations with Malaysia. In the High commission, I organized display center of Bangladesh products and High commissioner showed President Ziaur Rahman the display center and the president formally opened the display center. Display center received wide publicity in the news media there.
Interestingly when the High Commissioner introduced me to President Zia, the president said that he knew me very well. Actually, I came in contact with President Ziaur when he was the Deputy Chief of Staff of the army for handing over a book written by professor and celebrated writer Robert Payne. I was instructed by Foreign Secretary Enayet Karim to do. An interview was also fixed with Ziaur Rahman for Robert Payne. Subsequently I met President Ziaur Rahman several occasions while introducing visiting foreign journalists who interviewed him.
During his stay in Malaysia, High Commissioner Safiullah came across another problem which related to the eviction of Burmese Rohingya Muslims to Bangladesh in 1978. The High Commissioner was briefed by Foreign Ministry and DGFI on the Genesis of Rohingya problem and urged him to put pressure on Malaysia government to pursue the Burmese military junta led by Gen. Ne Win to take them back in view of best of relations maintained by both the countries.
For about a week, High commissioner Safiullah could not get an appointment in the hierarchy of Wisma Putra (Foreign Ministry). High commissioner had sought my advice. My suggestion was to brief editors of important newspapers which he accepted gladly. I had arranged meetings with chief editors of New Straits Times, Utusan Melayu, Berita Harian, Sin Chew and Daily Star. A series of reports on eviction of Muslims from Burma appeared in the media critizing the inaction of the Malaysian government.


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## asad71

BANGLAR BIR said:


> https://www.globalvillagespace.com/93000-pakistani-soldiers-did-not-surrender-in-1971-because/
> *93,000 Pakistani soldiers did not surrender in 1971 because….?*
> April 1, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Junaid Ahmad|
> 
> December 16, 1971, was an ominous day for Pakistan, because the Pakistani army’s scattered divisions sandwiched between an internal insurgency supported by Indian war machine and Indian army columns finally decided to surrender. To this day popular imagination and rhetoric is that 93,000 soldiers of Pakistan surrendered to victorious India and were taken as POWs (Prisoners of War).
> 
> _But the funny thing is: Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on ground in former east-Pakistan. So where the magical figure of 93,000 came from? _
> 
> This highly exaggerated figure is sustained by Indian, Bangladeshi, international and even Pakistani media. Many Pakistani politicians, out of spite for army, keep on repeating the cliched figure. Ironically, this propagated number has remained unchallenged and is also widely believed in Pakistan, as few accounts have been written to challenge it and today reportedly 65% of Pakistanis are younger than 35 years of age who have no idea of what happened, 45 years ago, in 1971.
> 
> But the funny thing is: Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on ground in former east-Pakistan. So where the magical figure of 93,000 came from?
> 
> *How many Pakistani troops were in East Pakistan? *
> _The number of 93,000 soldiers that is talked about has been conflated with civilians. West Pakistani civilians who were present in large numbers in former East-Pakistan were taken over into custody by Indian army to protect them from revengeful Bengali crowds and Mukit Bahni._
> 
> Undisputed fact is that Pakistan had only one corps comprising three divisions in East Pakistan during 1971. In fact when operation search light began on 25th March, 1971, the total number of Pakistani troops on ground were around 27,000. More troops were sent from west Pakistan but they had to arrive through a long circuitous route since India had blocked air route over India taking advantage of the famous “Ganga Hijacking Case” (believed to be a false flag planned by RAW for this purpose)
> 
> The three divisions, of Pakistan army, by end November 1971, comprised a total force of 45,000, on books, including combatant and non-combatant troops. Out of these, there were 34,000 combatant troops and the remaining 11,000 were non-combatants, supporting men and CAF personnel. But between six to seven thousand Pakistani soldiers died in the war also.
> 
> _It was also helpful in putting meat to the story of three million killed, hundreds and thousands of rapes and genocide. An army of less than 40,000, spread over a large theatre of conflict under attack from guerrillas supported by Indian army was hardly in a situation of doing what it was accused of. _
> 
> This one corp was pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants. When the total number of Pakistan army troops ranged between 34,000 to 45,000 how could 93,000 soldiers surrender?
> 
> From time to time various officers and commentators have attempted clarifying the myth but the power of first narrative is such that still the figure of 93,000 POW’s sticks in popular imagination.
> 
> According to Lt Gen Naizi, Corps Commander of Eastern Command in 1971.
> 
> “_The total fighting strength available to me [Gen Naizi] was forty-five thousand – 34,000 from the army, plus 11,000 from CAF and West Pakistan civilian police and armed non-combatants”who were fighting against the insurgents. Even if the strength of HL, MLA, depots, training institutes, workshops, factories, nurses_ _and lady doctors, non-combatants like barbers, cooks, shoemakers and sweepers are added, even then the total comes to only 55,000_.
> 
> Air Marshal Rahim khan, CNC Pakistan Air Force (1969-1972), had stated:
> 
> “_The number of regular Pakistani troops in East Pakistan never exceeded 33,000-34,000. The rest is just propaganda by India and the Awami League, to magnify their success….”_
> 
> Air Marshal Zulfiqar Ali Khan, who commended Eastern Wing of Pakistan Air Forces had asserted the same in these words:
> 
> “_At the maximum, our regular fighting force in East Pakistan in December 1971 stood at 34,000. This figure does not include paramilitary personnel, military police, etc. Even if you include the auxiliaries, the total does not cross 45,000”_.
> 
> General Akhtar Abdul Rehman. Former Vice Chief of Army Staff, speaking on the 1971 conundrum stated
> 
> “_It was impossible for the 34,000 Pakistani troops in East Pakistan or for that matter any army in the world to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and 170,000 Mukti Bahini, If not more, that too in a hostile environment 1200 miles away from West Pakistan …… Keeping into account all this, if the Indians still feel that they achieved a stunning military victory against Pakistan, I can only say they have fallen prey to their own propaganda”_.
> 
> US congressman, Charles Wilson (famous for Charlie Wilson’s War) in a discussion with Pakistani diplomats in Washington DC remarked.
> 
> _“……In 1971, it was certainly not possible for the 35,000 Pakistani troops in Dhaka to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and the more than 100,000 Indian-trained Bengali guerillas.”_
> 
> Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,
> 
> “_Pakistanis are energetic, vibrant, and resilient. We must not be misled by 1971. It was certainly not possible for the 40,000 odd Pakistani army in Dhaka to fight against much larger Indian army and Indian-trained Bengali Bahinis in a hostile territory ….”_
> 
> K C Pant, Indian former Defense Minister in September, 1994 during a discussion on Indo-Pak relations held in New Delhi, said
> 
> “_Peace is important between Pakistan and India. We respect the professional competence of the Pakistani soldier. Had democracy continued in Pakistan, Islamabad would not have suffered the debacle resulting in the surrender of its 40,000 military personnel to India in East Pakistan”_.
> 
> Sarmila Bose, the famous Indian Bengali writer and Associate Researcher at Oxford University in her book _Dead Reckoning_ published in 2011, asserts
> 
> _“…… t appears that while the total figure in Indian custody is about right, to state that 93,000 soldiers were taken prisoner is wrong, and creates confusions by greatly inflating the Pakistani fighting force in East Pakistan”.
> 
> Javed Jabbar, former Pakistani Minister of Information in his article, Estranged siblings-Pakistan and Bangladesh, 40 years later, wrote
> 
> “Pakistan’s armed forces did not exceed 45,000 troops at optimal levels. The 90,000 prisoners-of-war held by India included over 50,000 non- combatant, unarmed West Pakistani civilians.”
> 
> S. M. Hali, a well-known Pakistani analyst in his article, Breaking myths of 1971 Pak-India war writes,
> 
> “The total strength of Pakistan Army in East Pakistan (in 1971) was 40,000….”
> 
> All the aforementioned references point toward one fact that the number of total army personnel who surrendered were far less than 93,000. Whereas my research shows that they were only around 34,000 but in any case they could not have been more than 40,000. The number of 93,000 soldiers that is talked about has been conflated with civilians. West Pakistani civilians who were present in large numbers in former East-Pakistan were taken over into custody by Indian army to protect them from revengeful Bengali crowds and Mukit Bahni.
> 
> The figure of 93,000 also included children, women, civil administration officials and staff, non-combatant troops such as nurses, doctors, cooks, barbers, shoemakers, carpenters and others. The higher number talked about was a deliberate attempt to defame and demoralize Pakistani army, to demonstrate to the world extent of Indian victory. It was also helpful in putting meat to the story of three million killed, hundreds and thousands of rapes and genocide. An army of less than 40,000, spread over a large theatre of conflict under attack from guerrillas supported by Indian army was hardly in a situation of doing what it was accused of.
> 
> The total figure, a mix of soldiers and civilians was deliberately floated by Indians, and later by Bangladeshis to support their case for victimization. In Pakistan, a clever Bhutto used this for various reasons of his own politics. No one ever wanted to clarify. In reality, the actual number of Pakistani troops who surrendered on 16th December 1971 was only around 34,000.
> 
> Piece by Dr Junaid Ahmad, Author of ‘Creation of Bangladesh: Myths Exploded.’ Additional comments and editing by Editorial Desk of Global Village Space._



Always look carefully at this pix of the surrender ceremony put out by GOI media cell. Group Capt A R Khandokar is photo-shaped out to totally erase any contribution of our forces in a war WE have won.


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## Banglar Bir

Yes. General M.A G Osmani and all other sector commanders were also cunningly kept away from the surrender ceremony. Real Chanakya/Kautilya diplomacy by the Indians.

I have always stressed that we would have eventually won our own Independence even without the India's direct involvement, perhaps could have taken a little while longer. Pakistan had already agreed with the U.S and had agreed to withdraw from the East.

With the direct assistance of the former USSR,both in International forums,i.e twice applying its veto power in the U.N, and entering into a Defence treaty,receiving all out military equipments/assistance,could the Indians with a much larger force piggybacked by us, enter into the Dhaka bowl, within the time frame set .i,e third week of December, at the latest.

The history of our region would have been completely different, had the Indians failed to do so within the stipulated time or if the Pakistani Army had engaged in a prolonged war instead of surrendering, at least for a few more weeks.


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## Banglar Bir

General M A G Osmani, Commander in Chief of Bangladesh Armed Forces in 1971.
Veterans never retire.







াধীনতা যুদ্ধ পরিচালনা করে বাংলাদেশ জন্ম হয়েছে যে সর্বাধিনায়কের নেতৃত্বে, তিনি ছিলেন অবসরপ্রাপ্ত এক কর্নেল! তাঁর কাধেই লেগেছিল জেনারেলের র‌্যাংক ব্যাজ।



তিন বছর যেতে না যেতেই দেশ দ্বিতীয়বার বিপদমুক্ত হয় কয়েকজন অবসরপ্রাপ্ত সেনা অফিসারের পরিকল্পনায় ও সক্রিয় অংশগ্রহনে! দেশের চলমান ক্রান্তিকালে সবকিছু জেনে বুঝেও ডিসিপ্লিনের কারনে সার্ভিংরা হয়ত শুরুটা করতে পারছেন না, তাই গ্রাউন্ড ব্রেকিংয়ের জন্য তাকিয়ে আছেন রিটায়ার্ডদের দিকে।

The Legend- Saheed President Ziaur Rahman,BU.





The forgotten brave Heros of 1971.



Guerrilla 1971
একাত্তর পরবর্তী প্রজন্মের প্রতিনিধি হিসেবে নতজানু হয়ে ছবির এই মানুষটির কাছে করজোড়ে ক্ষমা ভিক্ষে চাইলাম। বীর মুক্তিযোদ্ধা স্থপতি মোবাশ্বের হোসেন এ লজ্জা আপনার নয়, এই লজ্জা আমাদের সবার।

★ স্থপতি মোবাশ্বের হোসেন, যিনি 'মুক্তিযুদ্ধ জাদুঘরে'র নকশা প্রতিযোগিতার প্রধান উদ্যোক্তাদের একজন।

★ স্থপতি মোবাশ্বের হোসেন, যিনি 'মুক্তিযুদ্ধ জাদুঘরে'র অর্থ সংগ্রহে দেশব্যপী লটারীর ১ম পুরষ্কার হিসাবে একটি অ্যাপার্টমেন্ট প্রদান করেছিলেন।

★ স্থপতি মোবাশ্বের হোসেন, যিনি 'মুক্তিযুদ্ধ জাদুঘরে'র নকশা প্রনয়ন ও নির্মান চলাকালীন বিভিন্ন সময়ে বুদ্ধিবৃত্তিক সহযোগিতা করেছিলেন।

★ স্থপতি মোবাশ্বের হোসেন, যিনি 'মুক্তিযুদ্ধ জাদুঘরে'র নির্মানে অন্তর দিয়ে সম্পৃক্ত হয়েছিলেন,এবং তিনি নিজেও যুক্ত ছিলেন মহান 'মুক্তিযুদ্ধে'।

★স্থপতি মোবাশ্বের হোসেন, যিনি সদ্য প্রসূত স্ত্রী ও সন্তানকে নিশ্চিত মৃত্যুর মুখে রেখে যুদ্ধে গিয়েছিলেন। ফলাফল হিসেবে তার স্ত্রী মানসিক ভারসাম্য হারিয়েছিলেন।

কিন্তু, এই মানুষটি আজ মুক্তিযুদ্ধ জাদুঘরের নতুন ও স্থায়ী ভবনের উদ্বোধনী অনুষ্ঠানে আমন্ত্রণ পাননি। সমস্যা নেই, স্থপতি মোবাশ্বের হোসেন কারও পদলেহন করে জীবন যাপন করেননি, সততার প্রতীক হিসেবে তাঁকে চিনেছি আমরা। আজ বীর মুক্তিযোদ্ধা স্থপতি মোবাশ্বের হোসেনের সম্মান ভূলুণ্ঠিত হয়নি, বরং উন্মোচন হয়েছে মুক্তিযুদ্ধকে সিঁড়ী হিসেবে ব্যবহার করা কতিপয় মুখচেনা বর্ণচোরার।

এই বর্ণচোরার দল মুক্তিযুদ্ধ'কে অপব্যবহার করে। তাঁদের ভাবসাবে মনে হয় এরা মুক্তিযুদ্ধের ইমাম ও খতিব। অথচ ৫৬,০০০ বর্গ মাইলে মুক্তিযুদ্ধ করেছে সাদামাটা মাটির মানুষগুলো। এই ৯৫ ভাগ মানুষের ৫৬,০০০ বর্গ মাইলের মুক্তিযুদ্ধ আজ ছিনতাই হয়ে গিয়েছে।

বর্ণচোরার দল আমাদের ৫৬,০০০ বর্গ মাইলের মুক্তিযুদ্ধটাকে শহুরে একটা উৎসব বানিয়েছে।


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## bluesky

http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.c...remember-Lahirirhat-genocide-in-Rangpur-May-7

06 May 2017, 22:05:29 | Updated : 06 May 2017, 22:09:30
*People remember Lahirirhat genocide in Rangpur May 7*




The local people still remember the horrific genocide of 32 'Musollis' committed by the Pakistani occupation forces just after Juma prayers near Lahirirhat mosque under Rangpur Sadar Upazila on May 7 in 1971. 

"Genocide of the 'Musollis' after Juma prayers at Lahirirhat factually unmasked the so called 'religious' face of the Pakistani junta," said District Muktijoddha Commander Mosaddek Hossain Bablu.

"The Lahirirhat genocide helped the common people irrespective of caste, creed and religion---- to easily understand the false propaganda conducted by the then Pakistani junta of saving Islam from the enemies ----," he said.

According to the book 'Mukitjuddhe Rangpurer Itihas' published by Rangpur district administration, the occupation forces came by four trucks got down in front of Lahirirhat Mosque and soon caught the Musollis just after Juma prayers on the day.

"The innocent 'Musollis' soon started running all around to escape from the human beasts when 32 of them, including a father and his son, were caught by the occupation forces," the book wrote.

After catching, the occupation forces started torturing the innocent 'Musollis', who repeatedly claimed with indescribable fear in minds that they were Muslims and came to the mosque for offering Juma prayers, in last bid to save their lives.

Eye-witnesses Rafiul Islam, 75, told BSS that the Pakistani army took the 'Musollis' to the nearby pond, forced them to stand in four rows and opened brass fire at them.

"All of the 'Musollis' fell down on earth after brass firing when most of them breathed last immediately while the others were critically injured getting numerous bullet hits at their heads, chests, bellies, necks and other organs," he said. 

"The occupation forces charged bayonets on the injured 'Musollis' in a medieval style to ensure deaths amid their cracking sounds when the nature became silent observing the unimaginable atrocities," said another eyewitness Rafikul Islam, 65. 

"After committing heinous crimes against humanity by killing the Musollis at Lahirirhat, the occupation forces with collaborators buried their bodies into a mass grave there before leaving the area," said eyewitness Raj Kumar, 84. 

Relatives of the martyred 'Musollis' started gathering there since the evening, dug the mass grave taking advantage of darkness, recovered and took away the buried bodies to their own areas for burial, said freedom fighter Majibar Rahman Master. 

"Martyrdom of the 32 'Musollis' uncovered real face of the Pakistani army igniting sleeping heroism in every Bangalee when they started joining the Mukti Bahini en-masse to liberate the nation," said Chairman of local Chandanpat union Aminur Rahman. 

Conducting research, valiant freedom fighter Mukul Mostafiz indentified 27 of the martyred 32 'Musollis' and put their names in his book 'Mukitjuddhe Rangpur' published in February 2011.

source – BSS

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## Banglar Bir

*108 Swadhin Bangla Betar artists given Freedom Fighter recognition*

Ishtiaq Husain
Published at 08:29 PM November 19, 2016
Last updated at 10:07 PM November 19, 2016



*Swadhin Bangla Betar Kendra was the radio broadcasting centre of Bengali nationalist forces during the Liberation War in 1971.*
The government has recognised 108 artists of the Swadhin Bangla Betar Kendra and cultural organisations which were formed during the Liberation War as freedom fighters.

Swadhin Bangla Betar Kendra was the radio broadcasting centre of Bengali nationalist forces during the Liberation War in 1971. It had played a vital role in boosting the morale of Bangladeshis during the war.

After over four decades of waiting, the country has recognised their important position in winning the psychological war while others fought the physical one.

87 artists and staff of Swadhin Bangla Betar Kendra had already been inducted as freedom fighters earlier, including their medical team who had aided the war effort.

The Liberation War Affairs Ministry published the gazette notification in this regard on Wednesday.


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## bluesky

tariq luqman said:


> When Dhaka Fall there No was Just 300000 so where Were The Bihari Gone


I am not sure of the figure you have quoted. But, their declined number may be because the Biharis crossed the border and went into hiding in Kolkata and Bihar.


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## Banglar Bir

*Returning the award*
Hamid Mir, May 7, 2017






*Hamid Mir is handed his father’s Friend of Bangladesh Liberation War award by Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina during a ceremony in Dhaka*
My friends in Bangladesh are insisting that I explain why I am returning the award bestowed upon my father Professor Waris Mir in 2013 by Sheikh Hasina Wazed. There have been many comments about this both in the Bangladesh media and in Pakistan as well. A legitimate question is being raised, that the award was given to my father who is no longer living. How can I declare that I will return the award? I will have to go back in time to answer this important question. It was winter, 2007. Pakistan’s military president General Parvez Musharraf had suspended the constitution. An embargo was placed on me and a few other TV personalities. Lawyers and journalists had launched a movement against the military president. I would protest outside of the press club every evening. Renowned poet Ahmed Faraz would also turn up there. Many speeches were made. In those speeches it was repeatedly stated that that the reason behind the break-up of Pakistan in 1971 is that a military autocrat refused to hand over power to Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, leader of the party which won the majority in the elections. One day even former prime minister Benazir Bhutto came and expressed her solidarity with us. The next day when I met Benazir Bhutto at the Zardari House in Islamabad, she said she and Imran Khan had been students at Oxford University in 1971 and had been strongly opposed to the creation of Bangladesh. Later it was found out that there had been so much oppression and repression there. Benazir said, Bangladesh hasn’t achieved political stability even after separating from Pakistan. The reason behind this was military intervention in politics.

It is imperative that Pakistan and Bangladesh forget their bitter past and build up fresh ties. It was there proposed that we journalists and lawyers should apologise to the people of Bangladesh for the incidents of 1971. Among the supporters of this proposal, retired government official Roadad Khan was quite excited. He had been the information secretary in East Pakistan in 1971. The next day a banner was made, bearing the words that Pakistani journalists and lawyers apologise to the people of Bangladesh for the incidents of 1971. When this picture was published in the papers, it created a storm against me. The picture depicted me prominently, banner in hand. As it was, the Musharraf government was annoyed with me. Now they brought charges of treason against me. I was under pressure to stop attending those protests and demonstrations. I refused to give in. The next day Benazir Bhutto was killed and eventually the Musharraf government too stepped down.

On 26 March 2010 I wrote a column for the renowned English newspaper of Bangladesh _The Daily Star_ and the Bangla paper _Prothom Alo_. I asked, why did I ask the Bangladesh people for pardon? I mentioned my father Professor Waris Mir’s Dhaka visit, and said he had made that trip in October 1971, a few months before the break-up of Pakistan. He had visited Dhaka as part of a delegation of the Punjab University Students Union and had tried to create a bridge between Dhaka University and Punjab University. Javed Hashmi was also a part of the delegation. He wrote a detailed description of the visit in his book _Haan Main Baghi Hoon_ (Yes, I am a Dissident). In my book I wrote that my father was very sad about the 1971 incidents. He was very worried upon his return from Dhaka. He would say, we should ask the Bengalis for pardon. They had played a vital role in the Pakistan movement. I also wrote that, the appeal for pardon would forge a new relationship with the people of Bangladesh. A few days after this column was published, the Bangladesh government contacted me, asking for my father’s writings which had opposed the 1971 military operation. I handed over those writings to the Bangladesh government. A representative of the Bangladesh government Shahriar Kabir then came to Pakistan and expressed his desire to meet with Javed Hashmi. I arranged them to meet. Hashmi _sahib_ clearly said to Shahiar Kabir, all of us including Waris Mir were against the military operation and had demanded that power be handed over to Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. But we were not in favour of Pakistan breaking up. A few days later the Bangladesh government decided to award the Pakistanis who had opposed the military operation of 1971. The awards were presented on 22 March 2013 in Dhaka. In the meantime, the date 23 March 2013 was fixed in Islamabad for me to accept the _Hilal-e-Imtiaz_ award from the Pakistan president. So, I told the Bangladesh government that my brother would accept our father’s award. The Bangladesh government insisted that I go to accept the award so as to improve ties between Pakistan and Bangladesh. I agreed and went to accept the award.

I had imagined that relations would improve between the two countries, but that dream did not materialise. In July 2013 when the 90-year-old leader of Jamaat-e-Islami Ghulam Azam was sentenced to life imprisonment, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International objected. When I mentioned it in a column, the Bangladesh government sent me a message, I awarded you, don’t talk about this issue. Next charges of treason were brought about against the editor of _The Daily Star_ Mahfuz Anam and the editor of _Prothom Alo_ Matiur Rahman. When I took an active stand against these charges, a Bangladesh ambassador said, we awarded you. You should remain silent. Recently Bangladesh refused to send its cricket team to Pakistan. A member of Pakistan’s National Assembly told me, he had prepared quite some time back a proposal for the Pakistan parliament to ask the people of Bangladesh pardon for the 1971 incidents. He had collected the signatures of 13 members of different parties. He would place it in parliament at a convenient time. He said, Bangladesh’s Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina has accepted subservience to Narendra Modi. She was no longer interested in improving ties with Bangladesh and so as long as Hasina Wazed is prime minister, I will not raise the proposal in parliament.

Around that time, I met an official of the Bangladesh Cricket Board in Dubai and asked him why they were not coming to Pakistan. He replied that India does not like it. I said, has Bangladesh accepted subservience to India? The Bangladesh friend was annoyed. He said, we awarded you and you are criticizing us. I reminded him, you awarded my father, not me. But if you want to silence me with this award, then take it back. It is on record that the award has been returned to Hasina Wazed.

My love for Bangladesh remains strong. This love is not subject to any award, not in the hope of any award.

_This column was published in Urdu in the Pakistan national daily Jang on 4 May 2017._

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## bluesky

*127 'grenades of Bangladesh Liberation War' found in Tripura*
Tripura Correspondent bdnews24.com

Published: 2017-05-09 01:09:10.0 BdST Updated: 2017-05-09 01:20:58.0 BdST










*Around 127 grenades, suspected to have been used during Bangladesh's War of Independence and buried underground, have been recovered in northern Tripura.*











Local villagers said the grenades might have been buried by the Indian Army in the 1971 war.

Hrishekesh Paul, an aged villager said, “Once this area was dense forest and so the military had set up their camp here. They fought and liberated Bangladesh. Currently, where there is the central school, three cannons were set up there for shelling along with a few bunkers during the Bangladesh war.”

Villager Rakesh Sukla Baidya, while digging mud, found two round metal balls near the central school at Gaurnagar late on Sunday.

Villagers thought these were grenades and immediately alerted the police.

So far, nearly 127 rusted grenades have been dug up.

Police have sanitised the area and set up a temporary camp while the digging is going on.

During the war, a camp of the Indian Army was there.

Bomb squad and forensic team are to visit the spot for digging out the entire area to find out if anything more is left.

Tripura had six to seven camps in four sectors from where the Bangladeshi freedom fighters fought Pakistani forces after taking arms training in Tripura.

Over 1,600,000 Bangladeshis - a number larger than the state’s then total population of 1,500,000 - had taken shelter in Tripura alone.

The nine-month-long war later turned into a full-scale India-Pakistan War, leading to the surrender of nearly 93,000 Pakistani soldiers in Dhaka on Dec 16, 1971.

Tripura shares 856 km borders with Bangladesh.


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## M.R.9

BUt we lough when india says they have created Bangladesh , Here they self claimed that they are foe state of Bangladesh and Pakistan . What a stupidity .



BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Returning the award*
> Hamid Mir, May 7, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamid Mir is handed his father’s Friend of Bangladesh Liberation War award by Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina during a ceremony in Dhaka*
> My friends in Bangladesh are insisting that I explain why I am returning the award bestowed upon my father Professor Waris Mir in 2013 by Sheikh Hasina Wazed. There have been many comments about this both in the Bangladesh media and in Pakistan as well. A legitimate question is being raised, that the award was given to my father who is no longer living. How can I declare that I will return the award? I will have to go back in time to answer this important question. It was winter, 2007. Pakistan’s military president General Parvez Musharraf had suspended the constitution. An embargo was placed on me and a few other TV personalities. Lawyers and journalists had launched a movement against the military president. I would protest outside of the press club every evening. Renowned poet Ahmed Faraz would also turn up there. Many speeches were made. In those speeches it was repeatedly stated that that the reason behind the break-up of Pakistan in 1971 is that a military autocrat refused to hand over power to Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, leader of the party which won the majority in the elections. One day even former prime minister Benazir Bhutto came and expressed her solidarity with us. The next day when I met Benazir Bhutto at the Zardari House in Islamabad, she said she and Imran Khan had been students at Oxford University in 1971 and had been strongly opposed to the creation of Bangladesh. Later it was found out that there had been so much oppression and repression there. Benazir said, Bangladesh hasn’t achieved political stability even after separating from Pakistan. The reason behind this was military intervention in politics.
> 
> It is imperative that Pakistan and Bangladesh forget their bitter past and build up fresh ties. It was there proposed that we journalists and lawyers should apologise to the people of Bangladesh for the incidents of 1971. Among the supporters of this proposal, retired government official Roadad Khan was quite excited. He had been the information secretary in East Pakistan in 1971. The next day a banner was made, bearing the words that Pakistani journalists and lawyers apologise to the people of Bangladesh for the incidents of 1971. When this picture was published in the papers, it created a storm against me. The picture depicted me prominently, banner in hand. As it was, the Musharraf government was annoyed with me. Now they brought charges of treason against me. I was under pressure to stop attending those protests and demonstrations. I refused to give in. The next day Benazir Bhutto was killed and eventually the Musharraf government too stepped down.
> 
> On 26 March 2010 I wrote a column for the renowned English newspaper of Bangladesh _The Daily Star_ and the Bangla paper _Prothom Alo_. I asked, why did I ask the Bangladesh people for pardon? I mentioned my father Professor Waris Mir’s Dhaka visit, and said he had made that trip in October 1971, a few months before the break-up of Pakistan. He had visited Dhaka as part of a delegation of the Punjab University Students Union and had tried to create a bridge between Dhaka University and Punjab University. Javed Hashmi was also a part of the delegation. He wrote a detailed description of the visit in his book _Haan Main Baghi Hoon_ (Yes, I am a Dissident). In my book I wrote that my father was very sad about the 1971 incidents. He was very worried upon his return from Dhaka. He would say, we should ask the Bengalis for pardon. They had played a vital role in the Pakistan movement. I also wrote that, the appeal for pardon would forge a new relationship with the people of Bangladesh. A few days after this column was published, the Bangladesh government contacted me, asking for my father’s writings which had opposed the 1971 military operation. I handed over those writings to the Bangladesh government. A representative of the Bangladesh government Shahriar Kabir then came to Pakistan and expressed his desire to meet with Javed Hashmi. I arranged them to meet. Hashmi _sahib_ clearly said to Shahiar Kabir, all of us including Waris Mir were against the military operation and had demanded that power be handed over to Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. But we were not in favour of Pakistan breaking up. A few days later the Bangladesh government decided to award the Pakistanis who had opposed the military operation of 1971. The awards were presented on 22 March 2013 in Dhaka. In the meantime, the date 23 March 2013 was fixed in Islamabad for me to accept the _Hilal-e-Imtiaz_ award from the Pakistan president. So, I told the Bangladesh government that my brother would accept our father’s award. The Bangladesh government insisted that I go to accept the award so as to improve ties between Pakistan and Bangladesh. I agreed and went to accept the award.
> 
> I had imagined that relations would improve between the two countries, but that dream did not materialise. In July 2013 when the 90-year-old leader of Jamaat-e-Islami Ghulam Azam was sentenced to life imprisonment, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International objected. When I mentioned it in a column, the Bangladesh government sent me a message, I awarded you, don’t talk about this issue. Next charges of treason were brought about against the editor of _The Daily Star_ Mahfuz Anam and the editor of _Prothom Alo_ Matiur Rahman. When I took an active stand against these charges, a Bangladesh ambassador said, we awarded you. You should remain silent. Recently Bangladesh refused to send its cricket team to Pakistan. A member of Pakistan’s National Assembly told me, he had prepared quite some time back a proposal for the Pakistan parliament to ask the people of Bangladesh pardon for the 1971 incidents. He had collected the signatures of 13 members of different parties. He would place it in parliament at a convenient time. He said, Bangladesh’s Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina has accepted subservience to Narendra Modi. She was no longer interested in improving ties with Bangladesh and so as long as Hasina Wazed is prime minister, I will not raise the proposal in parliament.
> 
> Around that time, I met an official of the Bangladesh Cricket Board in Dubai and asked him why they were not coming to Pakistan. He replied that India does not like it. I said, has Bangladesh accepted subservience to India? The Bangladesh friend was annoyed. He said, we awarded you and you are criticizing us. I reminded him, you awarded my father, not me. But if you want to silence me with this award, then take it back. It is on record that the award has been returned to Hasina Wazed.
> 
> My love for Bangladesh remains strong. This love is not subject to any award, not in the hope of any award.
> 
> _This column was published in Urdu in the Pakistan national daily Jang on 4 May 2017._




Still now he didnot get back his prize.


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## Banglar Bir

*Do we need a law to protect the history of 1971?*
Afsan Chowdhury | Published: 00:05, May 10,2017 | Updated: 22:23, May 09,2017






GIVEN that we have very few history research books of quality on 1971 and no one wanting to insult history, the proposed law on protecting history is a bit of a puzzle. However, if one knows about the politics involved in the issue, it becomes simpler to understand. The Awami League is trying to protect its political status while it mounts an aggressive campaign against its arch-foe BNP and Jamaat. The law is not about protecting the history of 1971 but protecting the politics that has grown up around the topic. This is sad because 1971 is literally our mother year and its history belongs to people not political parties. The liberation war is over, but its history awaits liberation, it seems.

***
NOT much organised research work and data collection have been done on the topic from 1972 onwards through official patronage. Efforts have been made but many do not seem to survive political transitions. The nature of the relationship between a government and historical research is always uneasy. And now that party politics has become so intensely involved in every intellectual effort, expecting such efforts to work out is simply not possible.
*
Three major official efforts on history *
wof 1971
THE first effort was mounted by the Bangla Academy in the Mujib era but the academic rigour of the data and information collection process was weak. The then director general, Dr Mazharul Islam, got into a major controversy over the biography he was writing of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and that led to loss of credibility. The August transition put an end to the effort.

However, in 1977, the Zia government sponsored a History of Bangladesh project under Hasan Hafizur Rahman under the ministry of information which yielded 15 volumes of documents, which remain a major platform of research till today. One of the reasons this project worked out was because it was stewarded by some of the most eminent historians of the country, not bureaucrats and party loyalists. The objective of the project was academic and not political and this was a major difference. Interestingly, while the government was a BNP-led one, great freedom was enjoyed in the running of the project due to the status of Hasan Hafizur Rahman and the eminent status of the academicians involved. It meant the members of the authentication committee that was responsible for ensuring the quality of the work were not partisans of the government in power. They were not trying to please the government but were loyal to their own integrity. It is also obvious that the academic and research environment was much less toxic than it is now in general.

As nobody was trying to write a narrative history of 1971 but focus only on the collection of documents which was value-neutral, it was an added point in ensuring non-interference. 
The third official attempt was initiated by the Bangla Academy under Dr Syed Anwar Hossain, an eminent historian and the then director general of the Bangla Academy; but before it could end, the regime changed and the project was aborted as well. 

The politics of history BUT, of course, the situation changed as politics changed. 
From the 1970s under the Mujib era, up to BKSAL formation, when any subject on the history of 1971 could be discussed without pressure or fear to the changes after August 1975, when Zia emerged as a contestant and claimant to the status as close or possibly equal to Sheikh Mujib, many changes have occurred. *History is no longer about learning about the birth of an independent country but using history for leveraging political gains to clout the other party. History itself has become a prisoner of partisan politics. *

*The decision to enact such a law came after BNP leader Khaleda declared that the number of shaheeds was less than three million in a speech in 2016. This was followed by Tarique Zia, who said that Zia himself was an interim ‘father of the nation’ of sorts. This sent angry tremors in the AL world and the end result was the proposal and soon to follow the passing of the law. *

Does this in anyway interfere with the pursuit of knowledge about 1971?

This is the great grey areas which concern historians. The matter of knowledge about the birth of Bangladesh has now passed on for interpretations by people who are not historians. When laws are passed to protect history, the biggest problem is that the ball always resides in the court of the non-historians. Just as historians are no judge of law, similarly judges or amlas should not do what is not theirs to do.

But what or who really is insulting the history of 1971? As many have written on this issue, disagreeing with the official narrative can be construed to mean insult even on academic issues. *And with law being very wide open and using courts as a tool of harassment now established, many scholars will now start refraining from doing any research at all just for personal safety’s sake. It is the last thing we need. *

But the reality is here and that is how the future looks like for all. The BNP will find another new cross to bear and may stop discussing any history of 1971 just to remain outside jails. Since the BNP began the ball rolling to use history for politics, it will have to be extra cautious. AL leaders will have the freedom to go after the BNP and this party may slide further.* Independent scholars also face a greater threat and partisan intellectuals will spend time longer praising the government.* 

But the matter of recovering, preserving and distribution of the 1971 history shows that it has been shifting the formal and official world to that of the people’s space. Whether one calls it an alternative space for historical understanding or not, public interest will remain. Over 100 books are written on the topic every year and more will be written. These are all of varying quality but like always the initiative will remain. The government could have chosen to promote the history of 1971 collecting information and data but has decided that history is for politics just as the BNP does. It will not serve Bangladesh but coming or staying in power in Bangladesh. 
Through this law, the gap between people and the government will increase further. However, people will always find ways to serve their conscience as best as they can and that includes an authentic history of their own birth, written by themselves for their own consumption. As it continues to happen even now.

Afsan Chowdhury is a journalist and researcher.

- See more at: http://www.newagebd.net/article/152...tect-the-history-of-1971#sthash.7tT9nfXl.dpuf


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## Banglar Bir

Professor Syed Abdullah Khalid,former lecturer of Chittagong University, recipient of Ekushey award, sculptor of "Aparayjoi Bangla", placed in front of Dhaka University, depicting the Glorious Liberation War, a renowned artist and a FF, admitted in ICU,in a critical state. A very dear and close friend of mine. Pray to Almighty to ease his pain and early recovery.


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## Banglar Bir

03:05 PM, May 21, 2017 / LAST MODIFIED: 03:16 PM, May 21, 2017
*People show love, respect to Khalid at Aparajeyo Bangla*




Cultural Affairs Minister Asaduzzaman Noor pays last respect to Sculptor Syed Abdullah Khalid at his work Aparajeyo Bangla in Dhaka University campus on Sunday, May 21, 2017. Photo: Rashed Suman

Star Online Report

The farewell gathering at Aparajeyo Bangla proves it all.

He will be remembered for his work of art, forever. People from all walks of life paid their last respects to sculptor Syed Abdullah Khalid at the Dhaka University campus today.

READ MORE: Abdullah Khalid no more

His body was taken to Charukala at 10:55am and at the foot of his monumental creation Aparajeyo Bangla at 12:15 noon for people to pay their last respects.
Sculptor Khalid breathed his last at the city's Birdem hospital around 11:45pm yesterday. He was 75.

His namaz-e-janaza was held at the central mosque of the Dhaka University after Zohr prayers. Later, his body was taken to Mirpur Martyred Intellectuals' Graveyard for burial.

READ ALSO: In conversation with Syed Abdullah Khalid
“This sculptor was first initiated in July 1973 and Khalid vai personally look after the building works,” cultural activist M Hamid told The Daily Star.
“But, in 1975, after the assassination of Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, the work was stopped for some time. However on December 16, 1979, the sculptor was inaugurated by injured freedom fighter Madhu,” Golum Kuddus, president of Sammilito Sangkritik Jote, told The Daily Star.

“After Khalid bhai has completed the design of Aparajeyo Bangla, he requested me to give a suitable title for his work. Later, I wrote an article titled “Aparajeyo Bangla” in the then daily Banglar Bani,” said noted journalist Saleh Chowdhury.





People from all walks of life pay last respect to Sculptor Syed Abdullah Khalid at his work Aparajeyo Bangla in Dhaka University campus on Sunday, May 21, 2017. Photo: Rashed Suman
Khalid left behind his wife, two sons and a daughter and a host of friends, relatives, admirers and well-wishers to mourn his death.

Ekushey Padak winner Khalid not only excelled in sculpture but also made a great impression with his vibrant paintings.
http://www.thedailystar.net/city/people-show-love-respect-khalid-aparajeyo-bangla-1408576


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## Banglar Bir

Operation Jackpot -Bangladesh Naval Commando in 1971,A Complete History.


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## Banglar Bir

History of Operation Kilo Flight of BAF During 1971.


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## Banglar Bir

*Zia declared Independence, not Bangabandhu said Kader Siddiqui*

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## asad71

BANGLAR BIR said:


> History of Operation Kilo Flight of BAF During 1971.



These two ops - naval and air, had really strangled PA E Comd.



BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Zia declared Independence, not Bangabandhu said Kader Siddiqui*



After the crackdown, the nation felt betrayed by the political leadership. They had neither warned or prepared the nation for the resistance head. Zia's broadcast gave the disillusioned nation hope. For the Bengali military personnel and the youth this was the clarion call to action.

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## bluesky

asad71 said:


> After the crackdown, the nation felt betrayed by the political leadership. They had neither warned or prepared the nation for the resistance head. Zia's broadcast gave the disillusioned nation hope. For the Bengali military personnel and the youth this was the clarion call to action.



Yes, you are completely correct. The then AL leadership including Sk. Mujib knew very well that throughout February and March of 1971, Yahya Khan was bringing in non-Bangali troops from west Pakistan and at the same time was taking Bangali troops to the west. I have read accounts that SMR was informed and instigated by the Bangali military officers to immediately declare independence and disallow the non-Bangali troops to land in Dhaka and Chittagong.

But, he remained faithful to one Pakistan. SMR did not even care to record his voice or write a secret message for independence before the 25 March crackdown and his arrest. Other leaders also did not do this before they ran away to India. This resulted in the killing of Bangali Jawans in the cantonments and Police forces in Rajarbag.

Zia's declaration came at a time when still many Bangali Officers and Jawans were not yet killed. They separated themselves from the non-Bangali Jawans and ran away after they heard of the Declaration of Independence by Major Ziaur Rahman.

The surviving group of this trained Jawans became the core of the resistance and liberation war, who trained in India the civilian Bangali young groups to fight against the PA troops. Without the presence of this Bangali Jawans, either the liberation war would not have started or would have been fully hijacked by the IA troops.

So, I believe that the timely promulgation of independence by Ziaur Rahman was responsible for a successful initiation of the liberation war and the country's ultimate independence from Islamabad.

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## asad71

bluesky said:


> Yes, you are completely correct. The then AL leadership including Sk. Mujib knew very well that throughout February and March of 1971, Yahya Khan was bringing in non-Bangali troops from west Pakistan and at the same time was taking Bangali troops to the west. I have read accounts that SMR was informed and instigated by the Bangali military officers to immediately declare independence and disallow the non-Bangali troops to land in Dhaka and Chittagong.
> 
> But, he remained faithful to one Pakistan. SMR did not even care to record his voice or write a secret message for independence before the 25 March crackdown and his arrest. Other leaders also did not do this before they ran away to India. This resulted in the killing of Bangali Jawans in the cantonments and Police forces in Rajarbag.
> 
> Zia's declaration came at a time when still many Bangali Officers and Jawans were not yet killed. They separated themselves from the non-Bangali Jawans and ran away after they heard of the Declaration of Independence by Major Ziaur Rahman.
> 
> The surviving group of this trained Jawans became the core of the resistance and liberation war, who trained the civilian young groups in India to fight against the PA troops. Without the presence of this Bangali Jawans, either the liberation war would not have started or would have been fully hijacked by the IA troops.
> 
> So, I believe that the timely promulgation of independence by Ziaur Rahman was responsible for a successful initiation of the liberation war and the country's ultimate independence from Islamabad.



Yes, the first bullet fired by Pakistanis caused us to react immediately and resist. Thus a war of secession or civil war commenced led by Bengali miliy officers. India and BAL moved in quickly to color this a liberation war - and take all the credit. That's why they paint false picture of the war.

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## Banglar Bir

*আ.লীগ স্বাধীনতা ঘোষণা করেনি, পক্ষেও ছিল না: আ. স. ম. রব*
- ২৯ জানুয়ারি ২০১৭




29 Jan, 2017
* জাতীয় সমাজতান্ত্রিক দল (জে.এস.ডি) এর সভাপতি আ. স. ম. আবদুর রব বলেছেন, ‘দেশে স্বাধীনতার ইতিহাস বিকৃতি চলছে। আওয়ামী লীগ দলগতভাবে কোনো স্বাধীনতা ঘোষণা করেনি এবং স্বাধীনতার স্বপক্ষেও ছিল না।’
একই সঙ্গে তিনি বলেছেন, ‘এটা আমার নিজের মনগড়া কথা নয়। ১৯৭১ সালের ২৫ মার্চের আগ পর্যন্ত আওয়ামী লীগ ‘স্বাধীনতার’ ‘স্ব’ উচ্চারণ করেছেন এরকম কোনো বই কিংবা প্রমাণও কেউ দেখাতে পারবে না।’*

* শনিবার রাতে ফটিকছড়ির মাইজভান্ডার দরবার শরীফে জেয়ারত শেষে দলীয় নেতাকর্মী ও স্থানীয় সাংবাদিকদের সাথে মতবিনিময়কালে তিনি এসব কথা বলেন।

আ স ম রব বলেন, ‘দেশে কোনো গণতন্ত্র নেই। ক্ষমতাসীন দলের স্বৈরাচারী শাসনে রাজনৈতিক দলগুলোর সভা-সমাবেশে বন্ধ। জনসভায় অঘোষিত বাধা এবং সাধারণ মানুষের রাজনৈতিক ও স্বাধীনতা হরণের মহোৎসব চলছে।’

স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশের মানচিত্রখচিত প্রথম পতাকা উত্তোলক আব্দুর রব ক্ষিপ্ত কণ্ঠে বলেন, ‘এদেশের পতাকা এতিম। পতাকার তো কোন মা-বাপ নেই। স্বাধীনতার ৪৫ বছর পরেও রাষ্ট্রীয়ভাবে প্রাথমিক কিংবা মাধ্যমিকের শিক্ষার্থীদের জন্য কোনো বই-পুস্তকে পতাকা উত্তোলকদের নাম লেখা হয়নি।’

ছাত্রলীগের তৎকালীন সাধারণ সম্পাদকের দায়িত্বে থাকা এ নেতা বলেন, ‘ছাত্রলীগের বর্তমান কর্মকাণ্ড জাতি দেখছে। তবে ১৯৭২ সালের ১০ জানুয়ারির পূর্ব পর্যন্ত ছাত্রলীগ, যুবক, শ্রমিক, কৃষকদের অসামান্য অবদানের কথা যদি না লেখা হয়, তবে স্বাধীনতার ইতিহাস অসম্পূর্ণ থেকে যাবে।’

ভবিষ্যতে নির্বাচনে যাবে কি না তার দল? এমন প্রশ্নের জবাবে রব বলেন, ‘জনগণের ভোট দেয়ার পরিস্থিতি থাকলে ‘জেএসডি’ নির্বাচনে অংশগ্রহণ করবে এবং ৩শ’ আসনে প্রার্থী দেবে। তবে আসন্ন নির্বাচন নিয়ে দেশে নাটক চলছে। নাটকের মধ্যে সবসময় আসল জিনিস থাকে না। আরও দু’বছর সময় কাটানোর জন্য আওয়ামী লীগ এইসব নাটক সাজাচ্ছে।’

সাবেক এ ছাত্রনেতা আরও বলেন, ‘এই দেশে পীর-দরবেশ ও সুফিদের মাধ্যমে ইসলাম ধর্ম প্রচার হয়েছে। বিশেষ করে ইরাক-ইরান-তুরস্ক ও আরব দেশ থেকে জাহাজ যোগে চট্টগ্রামে তাদের আগমণ হতো। তাই বারআউলিয়ার পূর্ণভূমি চট্টগ্রাম। তার মধ্যে মাইজভাণ্ডারী সুফিবাদ সর্বক্ষেত্রে প্রসিদ্ধ। এখানে আগেও এসেছি, এখনও এসেছি দোয়ার জন্য।’

এ সময় আরও উপস্থিত ছিলেন জেএসডির কেন্দ্রীয় সহ-সভাপতি তানিয়া ফেরদৌসি, যুগ্ন সম্পাদক শহীদ উদ্দিন মাহবুব স্বপন, সৈয়দ তারেকুল আনোয়ার, মো. এয়াকুব, আবু সৈয়দ শফিউল আলম খোকন, আবদুল মালেক, আবু তাহের, রেজাউল করিম, মোস্তফা সাহাব উদ্দিন, সাউফুল ইসলাম, ফেরদৌস মাহমুদ, মনিরুল ইসলাম, দিদার হোসেন ও শাহ এমরান সুমন প্রমুখ।

http://dailybdtimes.com/2017/01/29/আ-লীগ-স্বাধীনতা-ঘোষণা-করে/
*


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## Banglar Bir

Syed Muhammad Ibrahim with Forkan Ibrahim and 6 others.
4 June at 15:24 · 





*" অভাগা না হলে, কেউ কি ঘরের চাবি বেহাত করে ? " মুক্তিযুদ্ধ প্রসংগে প্রশ্ন । 
★অবসরপ্রাপ্ত মেজর কামরুল হাসান ভূঁইয়া এবং অবসরপ্রাপ্ত মেজর জেনারেল সৈয়দ মুহাম্মদ ইবরাহিম বীর প্রতীক ---এর মধ্য আলাপ। আলাপের সময় : ৪ জুন ১৭ রবিবার অপরাহ্ন ২ ঘটিকার আগে-পরে।*




__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## Banglar Bir




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## Samurai_assassin

BANGLAR BIR said:


> View attachment 403078


How does the general Bangladeshi population feel towards Pakistan? Hate and animosity to the point of seeking revenge for the liberation war?


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## Banglar Bir

*The Liberation War as we don’t know it*
Mamun Rashid
Published at 06:20 PM June 18, 2017



Will we ever know the true tale of the war that gave us our nation?/BIGSTOCK
*How we have failed to offer an unbiased story to the rest of the world*
A few months ago I was watching an Indian movie called _Ghazi Attack_. Like many other recent Indian movies, it was dramatised to a great degree and based on the Indian Navy’s fight against the Pakistan Navy in sinking a naval ship called the PNS Ghazi.

Incidentally, the story had a lot to do with our Liberation War of 1971 — even though someone watching the film, who is not fully educated on our liberation, would have been led to believe that the war had more to do with Indo-Pak conflict than the bloody fight for liberation between the two former sides of Pakistan that it was in reality.

The need for an objective and unbiased view of our Liberation War has never been greater.

Others are of the opinion it was all a part of a war between two super powers, ie America and Russia. Many even think that the creation of Bangladesh was nothing but the outcome of an age-old hatred between Pakistan and India.

*Scholarly perspectives*
I skimmed through three interesting books on Bangladesh’s independence: _Dead Reckoning_ by Sarmila Bose, _1971_ by Srinath Raghavan, and _The Blood Telegram_ by Gary J Bass.

My friends didn’t like Dead Reckoning and a few of them even declined to lend me a copy. They thought it failed to tell the true story of our liberation; that it leaned more towards the Pakistan occupation forces, and, more importantly, favoured the Urdu-speaking Biharis in East Pakistan.

According to the author, the allegations of genocide and rape at the hands of the Pakistan army were greatly exaggerated. Many historians ignored the atrocities against the Biharis in East Pakistan to be false and self-promoting.

Although I thought the book was not a well-articulated one, I do agree with what Ian Jack said in his critique of the book: “A truth about the Bangladesh war is that, remarkably, few scholars and historians have given it thorough, independent scrutiny.

“Bangladeshis are prone to melodrama and self-pity.”

I have to emphasise what Sarmila Bose said, that there is a need for “research to be conducted by a credible team of international scholars in a systematic and verifiable manner.”

It is painful to see that our Liberation War could not arrest the attention of international researchers, as the World Wars, the Vietnam War, or even the Gulf War have

It does not matter to me whether it was political killing by the West Pakistan army or genocide.However, it is painful to see that our Liberation War could not arrest the attention of international researchers, as the World Wars, the Vietnam War, or even the Gulf War have.

Even people in the West don’t talk much about the 1971 killings nearly as much as they talk about Rwanda or other atrocities.

I quite liked the book _1971: A Global History of the Creation of Bangladesh_ by Srinath Raghavan. The writer thought the 1971 war was a significant geo-political event for India and Pakistan since Partition.

He thought the war tilted the balance of power between India and Pakistan steeply in favour of India, and that the line of control in Kashmir, the nuclearisation of Pakistan and India, the conflicts of Siachen glacier and Kargil, the insurgency in Kashmir, and the political travails of Bangladesh can all be traced back to the intense nine months of 1971.

Raghavan also contends that, far from being a pre-destined event, the creation of Bangladesh was the product of conjuncture and contingency, choice and chance.

He thought the breakup of Pakistan and the emergence of Bangladesh can be understood only in a wider context of the period: Decolonisation, the Cold War, and incipient globalisation.

In a narrative populated by the likes of Nixon, Kissinger, Zhou Enlai, Indira Gandhi, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, George Harrison, Tariq Ali, Ravi Shankar, and Bob Dylan, Raghavan vividly portrayed the prominent international cast that shaped the origin and outcome of the Bangladesh crisis.

In _The Blood Telegram_, we get to see Kissinger deliberately hiding the atrocities done by the Pakistan armed forces on innocent Bangladeshis. Nixon always admired Yahya Khan and considered him a friend. While Kissinger may have privately not thought much of him, he saw in him a supremely useful instrument to pursue America’s geo-political interests.

The author was right to say: “The months of killings were sustained by schemes radiating out from Washington.”

*The War in movies*
I have also seen two movies on Bangladesh’s independence — _Gunday_, and _Shongram_ made by British-Bangladeshi Munsur Ali.

In the movie _Gunday_, apart from the touching story of two young boys, torn from their families by the partition that created the nation of Bangladesh, and unceremoniously dumped in Kolkata with few options, we also get to see the long-drawn Indian version of the Liberation War.

*In fact, most global stories on our liberation are the outcome of how the Indians perceived it. There’s very little we could have done.*

_Shongram_ is a romantic drama set in the backdrop of our liberation struggle. A daring reporter in London interviews a British-Bangladeshi freedom fighter on his deathbed in London, who finally shares his account from four decades ago.

While the movie nicely brought in the NBC news loops and Major Zia’s declaration of our independence on behalf of our Father of the Nation Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, what I liked most was the way the movie ended — spoiler alert — the editor throwing the Bangladesh genocide story into the bin as the story is not yet marketable to the international community.

Unless Bangladesh matters significantly to the rest of the world, we may not get a true and more acceptable history of the emergence of the country beyond the story of Bangladesh being the outcome of an Indo-Pak war.

There are stories beyond that of a respectable nation-in-the-making, fighting an unjust war forced onto them and most of us being a part and parcel of that story.

_Mamun Rashid is a leading economic analyst in Bangladesh._
http://www.dhakatribune.com/opinion/op-ed/2017/06/18/liberation-war-dont-know/


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## Banglar Bir

*Kindly not that the Pakistani Forces in the Eastern Wing surrendered jointly before Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora, General Officer Commanding-in –chief of the Indian and Bangladesh forces in the eastern theatre.*

*Instrument of Surrender of Pakistan forces in Dacca*
December 16, 1971

*INSTRUMENTS OF SURRENDER OF PAKISTANI FORCES IN DACCA*

*Dacca*

The Pakistan Eastern Command agree to surrender all Pakistan Armed Forces in Bangladesh to Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora, General Officer Commanding-in –chief of the Indian *and Bangladesh forces in the eastern theatre*. This surrender includes all Pakistan land, air and naval forces as also all Para-military forces and civil armed forces. These forces will lay down their arms and surrender at the places where they are currently located to the nearest regular troops under the command of Lieutenant-general Jagjit Singh Aurora.

The Pakistan eastern command shall come under the order of Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora as soon as this instrument has been signed. Disobedience of orders will be regarded as a breach of the surrender terms and will be dealt with in accordance with the accepted laws and usages of war. The decision of Lieutenant-General Jagjit Singh Aurora will be final. Should any doubt arise as to the meaning or interpretation of the surrender terms.

Lieutenant-General-Jagjit-Singh-Aurora gives a solemn assurance that personnel who surrender shall be treated with dignity and respect that soldiers are entitled to in accordance with the provisions of the Geneva Convention and guarantees the safety and well being of all Pakistan military and Para-military forces who surrender. Protection will be provided to foreign nationals, ethnic minorities and personnel of West Pakistan origin by the forces under the command of Lieutenant-General Jagjit Singh Aurora.


*Sd/-
JAGJIT SINGH AURORA
Lieutenant General
General Officer
Commanding-in-Chief Eastern Command 
(India)
16 December 1971* *Sd/-
AMIR ABDULLAH KHAN NIAZI 
Lieutenant General
Zone B And Commander, 
Eastern Command 
(Pakistan)
16 December 1971*


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## Sine Nomine

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Kindly not that the Pakistani Forces in the Eastern Wing surrendered jointly before Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora, General Officer Commanding-in –chief of the Indian and Bangladesh forces in the eastern theatre.*
> 
> *Instrument of Surrender of Pakistan forces in Dacca*
> December 16, 1971
> 
> *INSTRUMENTS OF SURRENDER OF PAKISTANI FORCES IN DACCA*
> 
> *Dacca*
> 
> The Pakistan Eastern Command agree to surrender all Pakistan Armed Forces in Bangladesh to Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora, General Officer Commanding-in –chief of the Indian *and Bangladesh forces in the eastern theatre*. This surrender includes all Pakistan land, air and naval forces as also all Para-military forces and civil armed forces. These forces will lay down their arms and surrender at the places where they are currently located to the nearest regular troops under the command of Lieutenant-general Jagjit Singh Aurora.
> 
> The Pakistan eastern command shall come under the order of Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora as soon as this instrument has been signed. Disobedience of orders will be regarded as a breach of the surrender terms and will be dealt with in accordance with the accepted laws and usages of war. The decision of Lieutenant-General Jagjit Singh Aurora will be final. Should any doubt arise as to the meaning or interpretation of the surrender terms.
> 
> Lieutenant-General-Jagjit-Singh-Aurora gives a solemn assurance that personnel who surrender shall be treated with dignity and respect that soldiers are entitled to in accordance with the provisions of the Geneva Convention and guarantees the safety and well being of all Pakistan military and Para-military forces who surrender. Protection will be provided to foreign nationals, ethnic minorities and personnel of West Pakistan origin by the forces under the command of Lieutenant-General Jagjit Singh Aurora.
> 
> 
> *Sd/-
> JAGJIT SINGH AURORA
> Lieutenant General
> General Officer
> Commanding-in-Chief Eastern Command
> (India)
> 16 December 1971* *Sd/-
> AMIR ABDULLAH KHAN NIAZI
> Lieutenant General
> Zone B And Commander,
> Eastern Command
> (Pakistan)
> 16 December 1971*


So,fight was under command of Aurora.


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## Banglar Bir

The topic for which the article was posted was due to the unilateral looting by the Indian Armed forces, or "occupiers takes all the War booties", along with all civilian assets from East Pakistan, and depriving Bangladesh of her due claims. Only just to correct the historical perspectives.


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## Eminent Mainstream Media

BANGLAR BIR said:


> The topic for which the article was posted was due to the unilateral looting by the Indian Armed forces, or "occupiers takes all the War booties", along with all civilian assets from East Pakistan, and depriving Bangladesh of her due claims. Only just to correct the historical perspectives.



Did Bangladesh take back her 10 million refugees- No, on the contrary she has pushed 10 million more each decade after, which has now become 50 million- It is Bangladesh which should pay India for all her refugees- And take them back- If Bengali can't pay then give India Chittagong as payment-


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## Jackdaws

Eminent Mainstream Media said:


> Did Bangladesh take back her 10 million refugees- No, on the contrary she has pushed 10 million more each decade after, which has now become 50 million- It is Bangladesh which should pay India for all her refugees- And take them back- If Bengali can't pay then give India Chittagong as payment-


Actually, most of them did return.

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## Eminent Mainstream Media

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> So,fight was under command of Aurora.



The mistake is our- We should've let Naizi and Tikka Khan do the Job-



Jackdaws said:


> Actually, most of them did return.



How come we still have them in Huge numbers then ?


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## Jackdaws

Eminent Mainstream Media said:


> The mistake is our- We should've let Naizi and Tikka Khan do the Job-
> 
> 
> 
> How come we still have them in Huge numbers then ?


That's uncalled for. They were literally butchering them. It is not very well advertised, but the majority of refugees were Hindus. When the elections of 1970/71 gave Awami League the majority - the West Pakistanis thought this was because of the Hindu East Pakistani vote. Because even though the population of East Pakistan was more than that of West Pakistan - the _Muslim _population of West Pakistan was more. If I remember correctly, 15% of East Pakistanis were Hindu - a significant number. 

That's why Hindus in East Pakistani were specifically targeted - read up on the Jagannath Hall in Dacca University. 

Yes, there are illegal immigrants from Bdesh in India - it is pretty porous border.


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## Eminent Mainstream Media

Jackdaws said:


> That's uncalled for. They were literally butchering them. It is not very well advertised, but the majority of refugees were Hindus. When the elections of 1970/71 gave Awami League the majority - the West Pakistanis thought this was because of the Hindu East Pakistani vote. Because even though the population of East Pakistan was more than that of West Pakistan - the _Muslim _population of West Pakistan was more. If I remember correctly, 15% of East Pakistanis were Hindu - a significant number.
> 
> That's why Hindus in East Pakistani were specifically targeted - read up on the Jagannath Hall in Dacca University.
> 
> Yes, there are illegal immigrants from Bdesh in India - it is pretty porous border.



India has already settled major portion of 10 million Refugees in several colonies- Hardly any help came from anywhere and then we have 10 million adding each decade ever since- How do you see India absorbing these numbers- When we are already overpopulated lack resources- and majority of people are poor- 

The East Pakistan problem was mainly due to language and regional differences- Hindus there voted for Sheikh Mujib who was a Muslim- similarly Hindus in West Pakistan would've voted for Bhutto-


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## Sine Nomine

BANGLAR BIR said:


> The topic for which the article was posted was due to the unilateral looting by the Indian Armed forces, or "occupiers takes all the War booties", along with all civilian assets from East Pakistan, and depriving Bangladesh of her due claims. Only just to correct the historical perspectives.


Well my dear Bangladesh never tried to stop India at that day,there are many things done after surrender which you guys never dared to speak or write.
I met many ex soldiers and they have described horrible scenes of plunder from factories,homes and cantonments,even forests were not spared.

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## asad71

As ever, realization comes late - too late in this case.

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## asad71

BANGLAR BIR said:


> View attachment 403078



Exactly what I believe, except that Suhrowardy should also be included. Also some would argue that Tajuddin and Osmani led the nation in '71.


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## Banglar Bir

asad71 said:


> As ever, realization comes late - too late in this case.


 Thanks a million @asad71, for highlighting these historical facts.This archive will enrich our younger generations to learn the real truth, about our glorious history, even after our generation have finally breathed our last. Insha Allah.

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## Sine Nomine

@asad71 @BANGLAR BIR Gentleman have you gone through work done by Dalim.

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## Banglar Bir

Indian Armed Forces looted 2700 crores worth of Arms and Equipment's after the end of our Freedom struggle.

*মুক্তিযুদ্ধ শেষে ২৭০০ কোটি টাকার অস্ত্র-সরঞ্জাম লুট করেছিলো ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনী !*
 June 23, 2017


*জোগলু: জানেন যতিন ভাই, যুদ্ধ শেষে ২৭০০ কোটি টাকার অস্ত্র-সরঞ্জাম লুট করেছিলো ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনী? ( অমৃতবাজার দৈনিক-১২ মে ১৯৭৪)*
যতিন- আরে কী বলিস, ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু।
মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : ৭৪ সালের চুক্তি সত্বেও ভারত তিন বিঘা করিডোর হস্তান্তর করেনি বাংলাদেশকে ! –
ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : ভাই ৭৫ থেকে বাংলাদেশকে পানির নায্য হিস্যা দেয়নি। পদ্মা শুকিয়ে আজ বাথরুমের টাংকি ! বছরে ২০০ কোটি টাকার ফসল উৎপাদন বন্ধ ! –

ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : ভাই খড়া মৌসুমে তারা বাধ দিয়ে পানি আটকে রাখে, আর ভরা মৌসুমে বাধ ছেড়ে দিয়ে বাংলাদেশকে ভাসিয়ে দেয়! –
ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে! : সুল্ক জটিলতা সৃষ্টিকরে প্রায় ২০ হাজার কোটি টাকার বানিজ্য ঘাটতি তৈরী করেছে ! –

ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : প্রতিবাদের পরেও টিপাইমুখে বাধ দিচ্ছে – সিলেটের ১৬ জেলা মরুভূমি হয়ে যাবে ! –

ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : হিন্দি চ্যানেল প্রচার করতে ৩০০০থেকে ৪৫০০ কোটি টাকা ভারতকে দেয়া হয়। কিন্তু বাংলাদেশী চ্যানেল ভারতে নট অ্যালাউড! –

ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : ভাই -গত ৪৪ বছরে ৬১হাজার বাঙ্গালীকে সীমান্তে হত্যা করেছে !! –

ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : আমাদের বিশ্ব ঐতিহ্য সুন্দরবন! সেই সুন্দর বনকে ধ্বংসের জন্য তারা উঠেপড়ে লেগেছে! –

ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু, মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে! : আপনার গর্বের জায়গা ‘ক্রিকেট’ নিয়েও ষড়যন্ত্র শুরু করেছে, কেমন ছোটলোক !? –

ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে।

: আশ্চর্য ভাই, সাংস্কৃতিক আগ্রাসন, অভ্যন্তরীণ রাজনীতিতে নির্লজ্জ হস্তক্ষেপ, মাথারউপর দাদাগিরি সহ নানাভাবে বাংলাদেশ আজ ধর্ষিত ভারতের কাছে ! –

ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : এই যে আমাদের গর্বের সেনাবাহিনী, তাদেরকে নিয়েও তারা কত ষড়যন্ত্র করছে, বিডিআর বিদ্রোহ থেকে আরো কত কী! –

ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে! : ভারত ৪২ বছর ধরে স্বাধীনতায় সহযোগিতার নামে বাংলাদেশ শোষণ করছে ! –

তবুও..তোরে আর কয়বার বলব, ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : এই তো কয়দিন আগে বাংলাদেশী জার্নালিস্টদের বলেছে ”বাংলাদেশী পাসপোর্ট? নট এলাউড, কিউ কি আপ বাংলাদেশকা সিটিজেন হ্যায় ! একরকম গলা ধাক্কাদিয়ে হোটেল থেকে বের করে দিয়েছে আপনার বন্ধুরা! – ব্যাটা তুই তো দেখি রাজাকার ! পাকিস্তান চলে যা। জোগলু পাকিস্তান যাওয়ার আগে, কোমায় চলে গেছে!

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## Sine Nomine

BANGLAR BIR said:


> View attachment 407780
> 
> Indian Armed Forces looted 2700 crores worth of Arms and Equipment's after the end of our Freedom struggle.
> 
> *মুক্তিযুদ্ধ শেষে ২৭০০ কোটি টাকার অস্ত্র-সরঞ্জাম লুট করেছিলো ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনী !*
> June 23, 2017
> 
> 
> *জোগলু: জানেন যতিন ভাই, যুদ্ধ শেষে ২৭০০ কোটি টাকার অস্ত্র-সরঞ্জাম লুট করেছিলো ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনী? ( অমৃতবাজার দৈনিক-১২ মে ১৯৭৪)*
> যতিন- আরে কী বলিস, ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু।
> মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : ৭৪ সালের চুক্তি সত্বেও ভারত তিন বিঘা করিডোর হস্তান্তর করেনি বাংলাদেশকে ! –
> ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : ভাই ৭৫ থেকে বাংলাদেশকে পানির নায্য হিস্যা দেয়নি। পদ্মা শুকিয়ে আজ বাথরুমের টাংকি ! বছরে ২০০ কোটি টাকার ফসল উৎপাদন বন্ধ ! –
> 
> ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : ভাই খড়া মৌসুমে তারা বাধ দিয়ে পানি আটকে রাখে, আর ভরা মৌসুমে বাধ ছেড়ে দিয়ে বাংলাদেশকে ভাসিয়ে দেয়! –
> ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে! : সুল্ক জটিলতা সৃষ্টিকরে প্রায় ২০ হাজার কোটি টাকার বানিজ্য ঘাটতি তৈরী করেছে ! –
> 
> ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : প্রতিবাদের পরেও টিপাইমুখে বাধ দিচ্ছে – সিলেটের ১৬ জেলা মরুভূমি হয়ে যাবে ! –
> 
> ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : হিন্দি চ্যানেল প্রচার করতে ৩০০০থেকে ৪৫০০ কোটি টাকা ভারতকে দেয়া হয়। কিন্তু বাংলাদেশী চ্যানেল ভারতে নট অ্যালাউড! –
> 
> ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : ভাই -গত ৪৪ বছরে ৬১হাজার বাঙ্গালীকে সীমান্তে হত্যা করেছে !! –
> 
> ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : আমাদের বিশ্ব ঐতিহ্য সুন্দরবন! সেই সুন্দর বনকে ধ্বংসের জন্য তারা উঠেপড়ে লেগেছে! –
> 
> ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু, মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে! : আপনার গর্বের জায়গা ‘ক্রিকেট’ নিয়েও ষড়যন্ত্র শুরু করেছে, কেমন ছোটলোক !? –
> 
> ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে।
> 
> : আশ্চর্য ভাই, সাংস্কৃতিক আগ্রাসন, অভ্যন্তরীণ রাজনীতিতে নির্লজ্জ হস্তক্ষেপ, মাথারউপর দাদাগিরি সহ নানাভাবে বাংলাদেশ আজ ধর্ষিত ভারতের কাছে ! –
> 
> ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : এই যে আমাদের গর্বের সেনাবাহিনী, তাদেরকে নিয়েও তারা কত ষড়যন্ত্র করছে, বিডিআর বিদ্রোহ থেকে আরো কত কী! –
> 
> ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে! : ভারত ৪২ বছর ধরে স্বাধীনতায় সহযোগিতার নামে বাংলাদেশ শোষণ করছে ! –
> 
> তবুও..তোরে আর কয়বার বলব, ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : এই তো কয়দিন আগে বাংলাদেশী জার্নালিস্টদের বলেছে ”বাংলাদেশী পাসপোর্ট? নট এলাউড, কিউ কি আপ বাংলাদেশকা সিটিজেন হ্যায় ! একরকম গলা ধাক্কাদিয়ে হোটেল থেকে বের করে দিয়েছে আপনার বন্ধুরা! – ব্যাটা তুই তো দেখি রাজাকার ! পাকিস্তান চলে যা। জোগলু পাকিস্তান যাওয়ার আগে, কোমায় চলে গেছে!


There were some hi tech ammunition and small arm manufacturing facilities,what happened to them?


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## Banglar Bir

*



*
*Indian Armed Forces looted Arms and Equipment worth 2,700 crores taka after the Liberation War*
*মুক্তিযুদ্ধ শেষে ২৭০০ কোটি টাকার অস্ত্র-সরঞ্জাম লুট করেছিলো ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনী !*
 June 23, 2017


জোগলু: *জানেন যতিন ভাই, যুদ্ধ শেষে ২৭০০ কোটি টাকার অস্ত্র-সরঞ্জাম লুট করেছিলো ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনী? ( অমৃতবাজার দৈনিক-১২ মে ১৯৭৪)*
যতিন- আরে কী বলিস, ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : ৭৪ সালের চুক্তি সত্বেও ভারত তিন বিঘা করিডোর হস্তান্তর করেনি বাংলাদেশকে ! 

– ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : ভাই ৭৫ থেকে বাংলাদেশকে পানির নায্য হিস্যা দেয়নি। পদ্মা শুকিয়ে আজ বাথরুমের টাংকি ! বছরে ২০০ কোটি টাকার ফসল উৎপাদন বন্ধ !

– ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : ভাই খড়া মৌসুমে তারা বাধ দিয়ে পানি আটকে রাখে, আর ভরা মৌসুমে বাধ ছেড়ে দিয়ে বাংলাদেশকে ভাসিয়ে দেয়! 

– ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে! : সুল্ক জটিলতা সৃষ্টিকরে প্রায় ২০ হাজার কোটি টাকার বানিজ্য ঘাটতি তৈরী করেছে ! – ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : প্রতিবাদের পরেও টিপাইমুখে বাধ দিচ্ছে – সিলেটের ১৬ জেলা মরুভূমি হয়ে যাবে !

– ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : হিন্দি চ্যানেল প্রচার করতে ৩০০০থেকে ৪৫০০ কোটি টাকা ভারতকে দেয়া হয়। কিন্তু বাংলাদেশী চ্যানেল ভারতে নট অ্যালাউড! 

– ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : ভাই -গত ৪৪ বছরে ৬১হাজার বাঙ্গালীকে সীমান্তে হত্যা করেছে !! – ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : আমাদের বিশ্ব ঐতিহ্য সুন্দরবন! সেই সুন্দর বনকে ধ্বংসের জন্য তারা উঠেপড়ে লেগেছে! 

– ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু, মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে! : আপনার গর্বের জায়গা ‘ক্রিকেট’ নিয়েও ষড়যন্ত্র শুরু করেছে, কেমন ছোটলোক !? 

– ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : আশ্চর্য ভাই, সাংস্কৃতিক আগ্রাসন, অভ্যন্তরীণ রাজনীতিতে নির্লজ্জ হস্তক্ষেপ, মাথারউপর দাদাগিরি সহ নানাভাবে বাংলাদেশ আজ ধর্ষিত ভারতের কাছে ! 

– ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : এই যে আমাদের গর্বের সেনাবাহিনী, তাদেরকে নিয়েও তারা কত ষড়যন্ত্র করছে, বিডিআর বিদ্রোহ থেকে আরো কত কী! 

– ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে! : ভারত ৪২ বছর ধরে স্বাধীনতায় সহযোগিতার নামে বাংলাদেশ শোষণ করছে ! 

*– তবুও..তোরে আর কয়বার বলব, ভারত আমাদের বন্ধু। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সাহায্য করেছে। : এই তো কয়দিন আগে বাংলাদেশী জার্নালিস্টদের বলেছে ”বাংলাদেশী পাসপোর্ট? নট এলাউড, কিউ কি আপ বাংলাদেশকা সিটিজেন হ্যায় ! একরকম গলা ধাক্কাদিয়ে হোটেল থেকে বের করে দিয়েছে আপনার বন্ধুরা! – ব্যাটা তুই তো দেখি রাজাকার ! পাকিস্তান চলে যা। জোগলু পাকিস্তান যাওয়ার আগে, কোমায় চলে গেছে!*
http://banglamail71.info/archives/486





The India Doctrine
13 January · *10 Lacks refugees died in Indian Refugee Camps during 1971: Dr. Zafarullah Choudhury*
*
৭১-এ ভারতে ১০ লাখ শরণার্থী মারা গেছে : ডা. জাফরুল্লাহ চৌধুরী*

*একাত্তরে স্বাধীনতা যুদ্ধের সময়ে ভারতে আশ্রয় নেওয়া এক কোটি শরণার্থীর মধ্যে অন্তত দশ লাখ শরণার্থীর মৃত্যু হয়েছে। খাবারের অভাবে ও রোগে আক্রান্ত হয়ে মারা গেছে তারা। এদের বেশিরভাগ শিশু ও বৃদ্ধ। এই তথ্য জানিয়েছেন গণস্বাস্থ্য কেন্দ্রের প্রধান *। সম্প্রতি রাজধানীর ধানমন্ডিতে নিজের বাসভবনে এ প্রতিবেদকের সাথে আলাপকালে এই তথ্য জানান তিনি। তিনি বলেন, ‘বিভিন্ন রোগে মৃত্যুবরণকারী এই দশ লাখ শরণার্থীর কোন হিসেব বাংলাদেশ বা ভারত সরকারের কাছে আছে বলে মনে হয় না।

’ ডা. জাফরুল্লাহ চৌধুরী জানান, স্বাধীনতা যুদ্ধ যখন শুরু হয় তখন তিনি ছিলেন ব্রিটেনে। ১৯৭১ সালের মে মাসে তিনি এবং ডা. এম এ মোবিন ব্রিটেন থেকে চলে আসেন।

উদ্যোগ নেন মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের চিকিৎসা করার। ওই সময়ে বাংলাদেশ মেডিক্যাল এ্সোসিয়েশন এবং যুক্তরাজ্য যৌথভাবে ডা. এম এ মোবিন ও ডা. জাফরুল্লাহ চৌধুরীকে ভারতে পাঠায়।

তখন মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের চিকিৎসায় বিশ্রামগঞ্জে নির্মিত হয় ৪৮০ শয্যার অস্থায়ী ‘বাংলাদেশ ফিল্ড হাসপাতাল’। সেখানের পরিচালক ছিলেন সেনা কর্মকর্তা ও চিকিৎসক সিতারা রহমান। চিকিৎসক ছিলেন ডা. নাজিম ও ডা. আক্তার। কোথায় কোথায় শরণার্থীরা ছিলেন জানতে চাইলে তিনি বলেন, ‘মংডু এলাকা থেকে শুরু করে সর্বত্র শরণার্থী ছিলো। ওখানে ছিলো, ত্রিপুরাতে ছিলো, আসামে ছিলো, পশ্চিমবঙ্গে ছিলো, মনিপুরে ছিলো, এমনকি মধ্যপ্রদেশ রাজ্যেও ছিলো।

মধ্যপ্রদেশ ভারতের মাঝখানে। সেখানে পর্যন্ত রিফিউজি ছিলো। ভুলে গেলে চলবে না, আমাদের এক কোটি রিফিউজি ছিলো।’ এই চিকিৎসক বলেন, *‘৯ মাসে রিফিউজি ক্যাম্পে কমপক্ষে ১০ লাখ রিফিউজি মারা গেছে।* *বেশিও হতে পারে। মারা গেছে নিউমোনিয়ায়, ডায়রিয়ায়, কলেরায়, পুষ্টিহীনতায়, খাওয়ার অভাবে, ঠাণ্ডায়। বেশিরভাগ মারা গেছে শিশু আর বয়োবৃদ্ধরা। তারা নিউমোনিয়া, ব্রংকাইটিস- এসব রোগে আক্রান্ত হতো। মধ্যপ্রদেশ রাজ্যে শীত বেশি, কিন্তু শরণার্থীদের শীতবস্ত্রের অভাব ছিলো*।’

‘একজন ইঞ্জিনিয়ার ছিলেন, নজরুল ইসলাম। তার স্ত্রী হাজেরা ঢাকার কোন একটা কলেজের প্রিন্সিপাল ছিলেন। নজরুলের নামে একটা রাস্তা আছে। ওনার সেরিব্রাল ম্যালেরিয়া হয়েছিলো। আমরা তার ঔষুধ জোগাড় করতে পারিনি। সেরিব্রাল ম্যালেরিয়ার ইনজেকশন ও ভাল ওষুধ পাওয়া যেত না। আমরা যুক্তরাজ্য থেকে তা আনতে আনতে ভদ্রলোক মারা যান।’ ডা. জাফরুল্লাহ চৌধুরী জানান, মতিন নামের একজন মেজর ছিলেন। তার ছেলে নিউমোনিয়ায় মারা যায়।

মেজর মতিনের পরিবারের ইচ্ছে ছিলো যে, বাচ্চাটার কবর বাংলাদেশে হবে। সেই রাতেই মুক্তিযোদ্ধারা তাকে নিয়ে বাংলাদেশের মাটিতে এসে কবর দেন। ডা. জাফরুল্লাহ বলেন, ‘তখনকার দিনে ডিজাস্টার ম্যানেজমেন্ট আজকের দিনের মতো এতো ভাল ছিলো না। বর্তমানে ডিজাস্টার ম্যানেজমেন্ট অত্যন্ত উন্নত পর্যায়ে; আমরা ইমিডিয়েটলি মুভ করতে পারি। রোহিঙ্গারা আসছে, আমরা ঘটনাস্থলে গিয়ে হাজির হয়েছি দেখতে। কোথায় কি করা যাবে, না যাবে। আন্তর্জাতিক সম্প্রদায় হাজির হয়েছে। তারা হিসেব রাখছে কত আসছে যাচেছ। ১*৯৭১ সালে শরণার্থীদের খবর রাখার ব্যবস্থা এতো উন্নত ছিলো না।’ এই চিকিৎসক বলেন, ‘অত্যন্ত দুর্ভাগ্যজনক যে, আজকে আমরা জাতি হিসেবে স্বাধীনতার কথা বলি কিন্তু এই যে ভারতে দশ লাখের মত লোক মারা গেছে তার তালিকা আজ পর্যন্ত হয়নি। বাংলাদেশ সরকারও করেনি, ভারতীয়রাও দেয়নি। এই যে আমরা ত্রিশ লাখ, ত্রিশ লাখ করছি, এই শহীদদের কারো কোন নাম ঠিকানা নেই। কিন্তু আমাদের পরবর্তী প্রজন্ম যারা, তারা তো জানতে চাইবে। তিনি বলেন, ‘তালিকা থাকলে সেই তালিকায় যদি কেউ তার স্বজনের নাম দেখতেন তাহলে তারাও গর্বিত হতেন।’*

http://amar-desh24.com/bangla/index.php/details/focus/3476



MUSTAKSHAF said:


> There were some hi tech ammunition and small arm manufacturing facilities,what happened to them?


The well equipped mighty Supa Pawa Indian Army were shit scared of our Rag Tag small Army and the genuine patriotic Freedom Fighters and never dared to venture outside their bases located in former Pakistani Cantonments. Thus, some installations were untouched where there were presence of Bangladesh Army. Rajendrapur Ordinance was one amongst them, as I recall.

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## asad71

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> There were some hi tech ammunition and small arm manufacturing facilities,what happened to them?



We had successfully hid them. Our BOF Gazipur, established in the 60's, flourishes. Actually Indians couldn't imagine arms and ammo were being manufactured in BD/E Pak.

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## Banglar Bir

*The real history about Deceleration of our Independence on 26th March 1971 was NOT made by BB Sheikh Mujibur Rahman nor by any others, this decleration was announced by Saheed President Ziaur Rahman, Bir Uttam, from Kalurghat Radio Station, Chittogong.*

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## Sine Nomine

BANGLAR BIR said:


> View attachment 407790
> 
> View attachment 407791
> 
> View attachment 407792
> 
> View attachment 407793
> 
> 
> *The real history about Deceleration of our Independence on 26th March 1971 was NOT made by BB Sheikh Mujibur Rahman nor by any others, this decleration was announced by Saheed President Ziaur Rahman, Bir Uttam, from Kalurghat Radio Station, Chittogong.*
> 
> View attachment 407798


Actually first call up for Arms was made by him through Unit Radio on an open frequency.

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## asad71

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> @asad71 @BANGLAR BIR Gentleman have you gone through work done by Dalim.



1. Dalim is a potential factor for resurrection if projected correctly. Right now he is limited to an FB account only.

2. Dalim has family connections with the Sheikhs. He is related to BRAC chief Abed. BRAC is the largest NGO in the world even having ops in Afghanistan for decades. Understandably BRAC is a darling of the West. Dalim is also related to Litu, head of Bengal Foundation which is a RAW platform in BD. For years Litu has been suspected to be an American plant through his late uncle Prof Razzaq who was a close friend of Kissinger.


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## Sine Nomine

asad71 said:


> 1. Dalim is a potential factor for resurrection if projected correctly. Right now he is limited to an FB account only.
> 
> 2. Daim has family connections with the Sheikhs. He is related to BRAC chief bed. BRAC is the largest NGO in the world even having ops in Afghanistan for decades. Understandably BRAC is a darling of the West. Dalim is also related to Litu, head of Bengal Foundation which is a RAW platform in BD. For years Litu has been suspected to be an American plant through his late uncle Prof Razzaq who was a close friend of Kissinger.


1.He has some dirty secrets with him,both bd and India feel uneasy about him.
2.Sheikhs are hungry for his blood.
3.He has been labeled as a traitor.


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## Banglar Bir

If you have headache on one side you could still sleep, however if headaches are on both sides it would indeed be difficult to sleep( Meaning both Pakistan+Bangladesh). Indira Gandhi.

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## Kaushika

Bengalis are most ungrateful people on the earth. Nowonder pakistanis are happy that you got separated form their nation.

@PAKISTANFOREVER 

I dont blame tham, after saving honor of some of their honor what we got from these napak race ? Gaaliya.


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## Banglar Bir

*Bangladesh's Liberation War: Sheikhs Mubijb's Agenda.*
বাঙালির মুক্তিযুদ্ধেঃ অন্তরালের শেখ মুজিব





মোস্তাফা আনোয়ার খান

১৯৭১ সালে বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামের লক্ষ্য ও উদ্দেশ্য কী ছিল, শেখ মুজিবুর রহমান কী চেয়েছিল এবিষয়ে ভারতের সাহায্য নিয়ে পাকিস্তান ভাঙ্গার প্রধান স্বপ্নদ্রষ্টা, শেখ মুজিবুর রহমানের একমাত্র পরামর্শদাতা, একান্ত আপনজন দাবিদার, ডাঃ কালিদাস বৈদ্যের বই ‘বাঙালির মুক্তিযুদ্ধে অন্তরালের শেখ মুজিব’।

নিজের পরিচয় দিতে গিয়ে কালিদাস বৈদ্য বলেছেন, ভারতের পূর্ব-দক্ষিণ সীমান্তে নদী বিধৌত বাংলার এককালের শস্য ভাণ্ডার বরিশাল জেলা। তার উত্তর পশ্চিমের শেষ প্রান্তে আমাদের ছোট গ্রাম সামন্তগাতি। গ্রামের পূব পাশ দিয়ে বয়ে গিয়েছে মধুমতী নদী। আমাদের এলাকায় বলেশ্বর নামে খ্যাত। এই গ্রামের একটি মধ্যবিত্ত কৃষক পারিবারে আমি জন্মেছিলাম ১৯২৮ সালের ১লা মার্চ। বাবা রাজেন্দ্রনাথ বৈদ্য। মা গুণময়ী বৈদ্য।

কালিদাস বৈদ্যের বইটির ভূমিকা লিখেছেন, পবিত্র কুমার ঘোষ, যিনি সাংবাদিক ও কলকাতা থেকে প্রকাশিত “দৈনিক বর্তমান” এর উপদেষ্টা । ভুমিকায় তিনি লিখেছেন, “দেশ ভাগের সময় কালিদাস ছিলেন ছাত্র, অন্যদের সঙ্গে কোলকাতায় চলেও এসেছিলেন। কিন্তু ১৯৫০ সালেই তিনি ফিরে গিয়েছিলেন ঢাকায়, পাকিস্তানকে ভেঙে দেওয়ার ব্রত নিয়ে। ঢাকা মেডিক্যাল কলেজ থেকে তিনি এম.বি.বি.এস পাশ করেন, ঢাকাতেই ডাক্তারি প্রাকটিস শুরু করে ভালো পসার জমিয়ে ফেলেন। কিন্তু তিনি মেডিক্যাল কলেজে ছাত্র থাকার সময় ছাত্র রাজনীতি সংগঠিত করতে শুরু করেছিলেন, ১৯৫২ সালের ভাষা আন্দোলনে উলেখযোগ্য ভুমিকা নিয়েছিলেন। মুজিবর রহমানের সঙ্গে তাঁর পরিচয় গড়ে ওঠে তখন থেকেই”।
লেখকের কথায় কালিদাস বৈদ্য লিখেছেন, “ বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা ঘোষণা না করে মুজিবের স্বেচ্ছায় গ্রেফতার বরণ ও যুদ্ধকালে বাংলাদেশ সরকার সহ নেতাদের আচরণ দেখে, আমরা বুঝেছিলাম, আমাদের সব প্রচেষ্টা ব্যর্থ। তাই যুদ্ধ শেষ হবার আগেই আমরা চোদ্দো জন হিন্দু নেতা একত্রে বসে নতুন করে স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামের সিদ্ধান্ত নিয়ে প্রতিজ্ঞাবদ্ধ হই। পরে Law Continuation order of 1971 জারি করে মুজিব বুঝিয়ে দিলেন যে তার সরকার পাকিস্তানের Successor সরকার। তাতে সেখানে ইসলামিক জাতীয়তাবাদ স্বীকৃতি পেল। মুছে গেল বাঙালি মুক্তিযুদ্ধের ইতিহাস”।

বইটিতে মুসলমানদের ধর্ম , ইতিহাস, ঐতিহ্যের বিষয়ে ধারনা দিতে গিয়ে কালিদাস বৈদ্য লিখেছেন, “শিক্ষাদীক্ষায় মুসলমানদের অনীহার কারণও ইসলামের শিক্ষা। শিক্ষাদীক্ষা ও নৈতিক দিক দিয়ে উন্নত এবং মানুষ গড়ার কোনো প্রেরণা ইসলামে নেই। ইসলাম মানুষকে সম্পদ সৃষ্টিতে কোনো প্রেরণা যোগায় না। ইসলামের শিক্ষা হল জেহাদ করে পরের সম্পদ ঘরে আনতে হবে। চুরি, ডাকাতিতেই ইসলামের প্রেরণা। ইসলামি মতে ইসলাম হল শ্রেষ্ট পথ। এই পথের পথিক বলে একজন মুসলমান পাহাড় প্রমাণ পাপ করলেও সৃষ্টিকর্তার ক্ষমা পাবে। পরলোকে জান্নাত স্বর্গ বাসী হবে”।

সূরা তওবার ৫নং আয়াত, সূরা নিসার ৮৯নং আয়াত, সূরা আনফালের ৩৯নং আয়াত, সূরা মোহাম্মদ-এর ৪নং আয়াতের অপব্যাখ্যা করে তিনি আরো লিখেছেন যে, ’৭১ সালে এদেশের মুসলমানরা আল্লার হুকুম হিসাবে এই আয়াতগুলো তামিল করতে গিয়ে ত্রিশ লক্ষ হিন্দুকে হত্যা করেছে, হিন্দুদের বাড়িঘর লুণ্ঠনের পর তা জ্বালিয়ে দিয়েছে। হিন্দু নারীদের নির্যাতনের পর ধর্ষণ করেছে।

কালিদাস বৈদ্য পাকিস্তান ভাঙ্গার ব্রত নিয়ে ১৯৫১ সালের শেষ দিকে তিনি চিত্তরঞ্জন ছুতার ও নিরুদ মজুমদার ঢাকায় আসেন। বইয়ের ৪৩ পৃষ্ঠায় তিনি লিখেছেন, “…আমরা তিনজন যুবক কলকাতা থেকে ঢাকায় গেলাম। চিত্তরঞ্জন সুতার, নীরদ মুজমদার ও আমি। তখন ১৯৫১ সালের শেস দিক। নীরদবাবু ও চিত্তরঞ্জন সুতার সমাজসেবার কাজে যোগ দিলেন। আমি ভর্তি হলাম ঢাকা মেডিক্যাল কলেজের এম বি বি এস এর প্রথম বর্ষে। আমাদের তিনজনের আলোচনা ও সিদ্ধান্ত অনুযায়ী চিত্তবাবু ও নীরদবাবু সমাজসেবার মাধ্যমে গণসংযোগ গড়ে তোলার চেষ্টা করতে লাগলেন। আমি নিলাম ছাত্রদের মধ্যে গণসংযোগ গড়ে তোলার কাজ। তখন ঢাকার সীমানা ও বুদ্ধিজীবীর সংখ্যা ছিল সীমিত। ছাত্ররাই সব বিষয়ে অগ্রণী ভূমিকা পালন করত”।
বইটির অন্যতম আলোচ্য বিষয় শেখ মুজিবর রহমানের সাথে লেখকের যোগাযোগ ও পরিকল্পনা।রয়েছে শেখ মুজিব ও আওয়ামীলীগ সম্পর্কে লেখকের তীক্ষ্ণ সমালোচনামূলক পর্যবেক্ষণও। শেখ মুজিবের গ্রাম, বেঁড়ে ওঠা ও কলকাতার কলেজ জীবন নিয়ে লেখক মন্তব্য করেছেন।১৯৪৬ সালে কলকাতায় সংগঠিত কুখ্যাত দাঙ্গায় (যেখানে প্রায় ৫০০০ মানুষ খুন যার ৭৫% ছিল মুসলমান) শেখ মুজিবের ভূমিকা সম্পর্কে কালিদাস বৈদ্য লিখেন;

‘‘গোপালগঞ্জ স্কুল থেকে ম্যাট্রিক পাশ করে কলকাতায় ইসলামিয়া (বর্তমান মৌলানা আজাদ) কলেজে ভর্তি হন।…এইভাবে কলেজ শিক্ষার সাথে মাদ্রাসায় ইসলামি শিক্ষায় শিক্ষিত হয়ে এবং প্রধানমন্ত্রী সুরাবর্দির কাছে রাজনৈতিক শিক্ষা পেয়ে মুজিব গড়ে উঠলেন ইসলামের এক নির্ভীক সেনাপতি রূপে। 
*এভাবে ইসলামের সেনাপতি রূপেই তিনি পাকিস্তান আন্দোলনে নামলেন এবং ১৯৪৬ সালের ১৬ ই আগষ্টের নৃশংস কলকাতার দাঙ্গায় নেতৃত্ব দিলেন।পাকিস্তান সংগ্রামের তিনিই হলেন পূর্বাঞ্চলের প্রধান সৈনিক।সুরাবর্দির প্রধান সেনাপতি ও ডান হাত শেখ মুজিব। সেই সঙ্গে মুসলিম ছাত্র লিগের একজন অন্যতম নেতা।যখন স্বাধীনতা আন্দোলনে হাজার হাজার হিন্দু যুবক হাসিমুখে প্রাণ দিচ্ছিল,হাজার হাজার হিন্দু দেশপ্রেমিক কারা অন্তরালে কাঁদছিল এবং হাজার হাজার আহত পঙ্গু যুবক মৃতুর দিন গুনছিল,তখন যুবক শেখ মুজিব স্বাধীনতা আন্দোলনে যোগ না দিয়ে হিন্দুর বিরুদ্ধে জেহাদের পরিকল্পনায় ব্যস্ত ছিলেন।এভাবে জেহাদের ডাক দিয়ে হিন্দুর বিরুদ্ধে যুদ্ধ ঘোষণা করেন।আর ব্রিটিশের সঙ্গে সেই ঘৃণ্য দেশভাগ চক্রান্তে লিপ্ত ছিলেন। ’’*

“শোনা যায় কলকাতার মহা-নিধন দাঙ্গায় মুজিব নিজ হাতে ছোরা নিয়ে রাস্তায় নেমেছিলেন- দাঙ্গায় নেতৃত্ব দিয়েছিলেন। মুজিব ব্যক্তিগত ভাবে সুরাবর্দির মন্ত্রশিষ্য ছিলেন। কাজইে গুরু যে দাঙ্গা আরম্ভ করেছিলেন তাতে শিষ্য যোগ দেবে তাতে আর আশ্চর্য কি? তবে দাঙ্গায় হিন্দু খুন করার শিক্ষা মুজিব তাঁর গ্রাম থেকেই পেয়েছিলেন। কারণ আমাদের অঞ্চলে হিন্দু মুসলমানে সংঘর্ষ বাঁধলে ছেরামকান্দি, ডেমরাডাঙা ও টুঙ্গিপাড়ার মুসলমানরাই মুসলমানদের নেতৃত্ব দিত”। (পৃষ্ঠা-৫৪,৫৫,৫৬) (এই বিষয়ে আসল ঘটনা জানতে পড়ূন পাকিস্তান দাবীতে ডাইরেক্ট একশন ঘোষণার প্রতিক্রিয়ায় হিন্দুদের হত্যাযজ্ঞ)

১৯৭০ সালের নির্বাচন
আইয়ুব খাঁ’র সেনা শাসনের শেষে যখন পাকিস্তানে গনতন্ত্রে প্রত্যাবর্তনের সুযোগ সৃষ্টি হয়,তখন নির্বাচনে লড়াই করার জন্য ‘হিন্দু লবি’র সদস্যরা কালিদাস বৈদ্যের নেতৃত্বে ‘গণমুক্তি দল’ নামে একটি হিন্দুত্ববাদী রাজনৈতিক দল গঠন করে। তাঁর দাবী অনুসারে স্বায়ত্বশাসনের আড়ালে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের স্বাধীনতাই ছিল এই দলের লক্ষ্য।কালিদাস লিখেন; ‘ গণমুক্তি দলের সমস্ত জনসভায় মুজিবের প্রশংসা ও তার নেতৃত্বের প্রতি অবিচল বিশ্বাসের উল্লেখ করেই আমরা আমাদের বক্তব্য রাখতে থাকি।’ (পৃষ্ঠা ১১৬)।

‘সেই সময় মৌলানা ভাসানী পাকিস্তানকে তালাক দেবার আহবান জানাচ্ছিলেন। কিন্তু তার সেই ডাকের ভিত্তি ছিল ইসলামি সংস্কৃতি। কিন্তু ইসলামি ভিতের উপর পূর্ববঙ্গ স্বাধীন হবে তা আমরা মেনে নিতে পারি না। আমাদের লক্ষ্য ছিল বাঙালি জাতীয়তাবাদের ভিত্তিতে পূর্ববঙ্গের স্বাধীনতা। কাজেই আমাদের কাছে তখন একটাই পথ মুজিবকে বিশ্বাস না করেও তাঁকে সামনে রেখেই আমাদের এগোতে হবে।’ (পৃঃ ১১৮)

১৯৭০ সালের নির্বাচন ঘনিয়ে আসলে মুজিবের সাথে আসন নিয়ে গণমুক্তি দলের দরকষাকষি চলে। কালিদাস বাবু তার বইয়ে লিখেছেন, ‘পূর্ববঙ্গে লোকসংখ্যা অনুপাতে জাতীয় পরিষদে ৩৬ জন এবং প্রদেশিক পরিষদে ৭২ জন হিন্দু সদস্য হওয়ার কথা। সেখানে আমরা মাত্র ৫জন গণমুক্তি দলের কর্মীকে জাতীয় পরিষদে এবং অন্য ৫ জন কর্মীকে প্রাদেশিক পরিষদের আওয়ামি লিগের প্রার্থী হিসাবে নমিনেশন দিতে অনুরোধ করি।… মুজিব তাতে রাজি হলেন না। শেষ পর্যন্ত ৩ জনকে জাতীয় পরিষদে এবং ৩ জনকে প্রাদেশিক পরিষদে মনোনয়ন দিতেও তিনি রাজি হলেন না। কারণ তখন সমগ্র পূর্ববঙ্গে ভোটের হাওয়া আওয়ামি লিগের অনুকুলে। যাই হোক, শেষ পর্যন্ত দলের পক্ষে ৫ জনকে জাতীয় পরিষদে এবং ৩ জনকে প্রাদেশিক পরিষদে নমিনেশন দেওয়া হয়। এরা সকলেই দলের মোমবাতি প্রতীকে লড়ে এবং অল্প ভোটে হেরে যায়’।

‘মনে অন্য চিন্তা থাকলেও মুজিবকে বলেছিলাম যে দলের কর্মীরা স্বাধীন পূর্ববঙ্গ সম্বন্ধে কিছুই জানে না। মুজিব অবশ্য নির্বাচনে আওয়ামি লিগের হাওয়া বুঝতে পেরেছিলেন। তাই জাতীয় পরিষদে মাত্র ১ জন এবং প্রাদেশিক পরিষদে মাত্র ৬ জন হিন্দুকে আওয়ামি লিগের নমিনেশন দিয়েছিলেন। কেননা হিন্দুদের রাজনৈতিক ও মানসিকতার কথা সব মুসলমানই জানে। তারা সকলেই জয়লাভ করেছিলেন। সেদিন মুজিবের মনোভাব বুঝতে আমাদের অসুবিধা হয়নি। তাঁর হিন্দু প্রীতির প্রমাণ সেদিন তিনি নিজেই দিলেন। এসব সত্তেও… হিন্দুদের বৃহত্তর স্বার্থে মুজিবকে সমর্থন করা ছাড়া উপায় ছিল না।’
যুদ্ধের পূর্বাপার

বইটির ১২৬-১২৭ পৃষ্ঠায় কালিদাস বাবু লিখেছেন, *‘‘নির্বাচনের পরেই মুজিব পাকিস্তানের প্রধানমন্ত্রী হবার জন্য ব্যস্ত হয়ে পড়েন। সেই সময় দেখা করতে চাইলে তিনি ব্যস্ততার অজুহাতে আমাকে এড়িয়ে যেতে থাকেন। অনেক চেষ্টার পরও তাঁর সঙ্গে একান্তে আলোচনার সযোগ পাওয়া মুশকিল হয়ে পড়ল। …মুজিবের আচরণ থেকে আমার মনে সন্দেহ হয় যে, পাকিস্তানের প্রধানমন্ত্রী হওয়াকেই তিনি বেশি গুরুত্ব দিচ্ছেন। মনে প্রশ্ন জাগল মুজিব কি তবে স্বাধীন পূর্ববাংলার কথা বাদ দিয়ে পাকিস্তানকে অটুট রেখে তার প্রধানমন্ত্রী হওয়ার কথা চিন্তা করতে শুরু করেছেন? …মুজিব পাকিস্তানের প্রধানমন্ত্রী হলে বাঙালি জাতীয়তাবাদের ঝড় কি বইতে থাকবে? পাকিস্তানের প্রধানমন্ত্রী হলে তাঁর হাতে এমন কি বিশেষ শক্তি আসবে যার দ্বারা পূর্ববাংলাকে স্বাধীন করার কাজ সহজতর হবে?…সব ভাবনার একই জবাব পেয়েছি। তা হল মুজিব পাকিস্তানের প্রধানমন্ত্রী হলে বাঙালি জাতীয়তাবাদের আবেগ মুথ থুবড়ে পড়বে। ঝড় আচমকা থেকে যাবে”।*

১৯৭১ সালের ৭ই মার্চ রেডকোর্সের জনসভা প্রসঙ্গে বাবু কালিদাস বৈদ্য লেখেন, “ বাড়িতে বসেই তিনি খবর পান যে, সেখানে স্বাধীনতা ঘোষণার পরিবেশ ও পরিস্থিতি সম্পূর্ণভাবে তৈরি। সেদিন স্বাধীনতা ঘোষণা না করলে যে বিরূপ প্রতিক্রিয়া অবশ্যম্ভাবী সেটা বুঝতে তাঁর বাকি থাকল না। কাজেই পরিস্থিতি তাঁকে ভীষণ এক চাপের মুখে ঠেলে দিল। তিনি বিশেষ একটি খবরের অপেক্ষায় ছিলেন এবং খবরটি পেতে দেরি হচ্ছিল। খবরটি তার কাছে ছিল খুব গুরুত্বপূর্ণ। সভায় যাত্রা করার নির্দিষ্ট সময়ের কিছু পরে সেই খবরটিও তিনি পেয়ে যান। এই বিশেষ খবরটি কি তা আমার জানা থাকলেও এখন তা বলা সম্ভব নয়। এই বিশেষ কারণটি ছিল বাস্তব, অন্যগুলি অনুমান” (পৃষ্ঠা-১২৯)।

শেখ মুজিবুর রহমানের উদ্দেশ্য বর্ণনা করতে গিয়ে কালিদাস বৈদ্য লেখেন,
*“বুঝতে অসুবিধা হয় না যে, এত দিন মুজিব ৬ দফা দাবি করে ও স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশের বিরোধিতা না করে যে জনসমর্থন ও জাগরণ গড়ে তুলেছিলেন তার একমাত্র উদ্দেশ্য ছিল পাকিস্তানের প্রধানমন্ত্রী হওয়া প্রধানমন্ত্রী হয়ে ব্যক্তিগত উচ্চাকাঙ্খা পূরণ করা। স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশ গড়া নয়। তার মাথায় পূর্বের চিন্তা স্বাধীনতা থাকলেও নির্বাচনের পরে পাকিস্তানকে অটুট রেখে তিনি তার প্রধানমন্ত্রী হওয়ার স্বপ্ন নতুন করে দেখতে শুরু করেছিলেন। তিনি খুব ভালো করে বুঝছিলেন যে, বর্তমান আওয়ামী লীগের কোনো নেতাই তাঁর মতো নিজ হাতে পাকিস্তান গড়েনি বা পাকিস্তান গড়ার জন্য জেহাদে অংশগ্রহণ করেনি। তাই পাকিস্তানের প্রতি যে প্রাণের টান তাঁর মধ্যে আছে, তাদের মধ্যে তা থাকতে পারে না। তাই তাদের পক্ষে পাকিস্তান তথা ইসলামি জাতীয়তাবাদকে পরিত্যাগ করে বাঙালি জাতীয়তাবাদে গা ভাসিয়ে দেওয়া খুবই সহজ। তাই অখণ্ড পাকিস্তানের অস্তিত্ব মূল্যবান নয় তাদের কাছে। কিন্তু মুজিব তা করেত পারেন না। পাকিস্তান সৃষ্টির এক নেতা মুস্তাক আহম্মদের সঙ্গে তিনি লড়কে লেঙ্গে পাকিস্তান বলে আন্দোলন করেছেন। পাকিস্তান আদায় করেছেন। সেই সব স্মৃতি আজও তাঁর মনে দৃঢ়মূল ভাবে জড়িয়ে রয়েছে। তাকে কিভাবে তিনি পরিত্যাগ করবেন” (পৃষ্ঠা-১৩৩)।
*
কালিদাস বৈদ্য পাকিস্তান ভেঙ্গে দিয়ে স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রাম পরিচালনা করার জন্য শেখ মুজিবুর রহমানের সাথে কথা বলেছেন। তিনি লিখেছেন, “অবস্থা দ্রুতগতিতে এগিয়ে যাচ্ছে। ইতিমধ্যে চিত্ততবাবুর কাছ থেকে নির্দেশ এল এবং আমি মুজিবের সঙ্গে আলোচনায় বসলাম। স্বাভাবিক ভাবেই, আলোচনার বিষয়বস্তু ছিল, বর্তমান পরিস্থিতিতে আমাদের কি করা উচিত। তাঁর কথাবার্তার মধ্য দিয়ে পরিষ্কার বোঝা গেল যে, বাংলাদেশকে স্বাধীন করার চেয়ে অখণ্ড পাকিস্তানের প্রধানমন্ত্রী হওয়াকেই তিনি বেশি গুরুত্ব দিলেন। এই সময় আমি তাঁর আত্মগোপনের কথা তুললাম। চিত্তবাবু আমাকে আগেই বলেছিলেন যে, তাঁর আত্মগোপনের ব্যবস্থা তিনি ইতিমোধ্য করে ফেলেছেন। আমি মুজিবকে বললাম, “দেশের পরিস্থিতি যে দিকে এগিয়ে যাচ্ছে তাতে শীগ্রই আপনার আত্মগোপন করা উচিত।” তাঁর আত্মগোপনের জন্য তিনটি পথের কথা আমরা আলোচনা করেছিলাম যার মধ্যে প্রথম ও প্রধান পথ ছিল ভারতে পালিয়ে যাওয়া।

তাই আমি তাঁকে বললাম, “বাংলাদেশে আত্মগোপন করে থাকা আপনার পক্ষে সম্ভব নয়, কারণ এখানকার সব লোকই হয় আপনাকে দেখেছে নয়তো আপনার ছবি দেখেছে। তাই সব থেকে ভালো হয় যদি আপনি ভারতে চলে যান।” ইতিমোধ্য চিত্তবাবু যে নিরাপদে তাঁর আত্মগোপন করে থাকার সমস্ত ব্যবস্থা করে এসেছেন তাও তাঁকে বললাম। আমি আরও বললাম যে, ইচ্ছা করলে তিনি তাঁর সঙ্গীসাথিদের নিয়েও ভারতে যেতে পারেন এবং সেখানে সকলেরই থাকা খাওয়ার সুবন্দোবস্ত করা হবে। তাকে আমি আরও বলেছিলাম যে ভারতে গিয়ে রাষ্ট্রপ্রধানের মর্যাদা পাবেন ও সমস্ত সুযোগ তার থাকবে। সব শুনে তিনি হুঙ্কার দিয়ে উঠলেন। বললেন,
“কবিরাজ (ডা. বৈদ্যকে তিনি এই নামে ডাকতেন), ভারতের মাটিতে থেকে আমি স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রাম চালাব না।”
আমিও প্রায় সঙ্গে সঙ্গেই তাঁকে বললাম, “দেশে থেকে স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রাম চালাতে পারলেই সব থেকে ভালো হয়। কিন্তু তা বড়ই কঠিন কাজ।” দ্বিতীয়টি তার নিজস্ব নির্ধারিত পথ। তা তিনিই বেছে নিবেন”। (পৃষ্ঠা-১৩৪-১৩৫)

*শেখ মুজিবুর রহমান স্বাধীনতার ঘোষণা দেন নাই দাবি করে বাবু কালিদাস বৈদ্য তাঁর বইয়ে লিখেছেন, “পরে কলকাতায় এসে জানতে পারি মুজিবের বাড়িতে সে সময় অনেক আওয়ামি লিগ নেতা ও ছাত্রনেতা ছিলেন। তারা সবাই মুজিবের বাড়ি থেকে বেড়িয়ে আণ্ডার গ্রাউণ্ডে যেতে পারলেন ও নিরাপদে সবাই ভারতে আসতে পারলেন। কিন্তু মুজিব তা পারলেন না কেন? ই পি আর ও পলিশ হেডকোয়ার্টার আক্রমণ শেলিং এর প্রথম শব্দের প্রায় ১ ঘন্টা পরে মিলিটারী মুজিবের বাড়িতে যায় ও তাকে গ্রেপ্তার করে। ১ ঘন্টা সময় পেয়েও তিনি আণ্ডার গ্রাউণ্ডে গেলেন না আর স্বাধীনতা ঘোষণার সই করা কাগজও কাউকে দিলেন না কেন? মিলিটারী নামবে খবর জেনেও তিনি বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা ঘোষণা পত্রে স্বাক্ষর করে আওয়ামি লিগ নেতাদের হাতে তা আগে দিলেন না কেন? এসব প্রশ্নের জবাব খুঁজলেই সঠিক সত্য বেরিয়ে আসবে এবং যা সবাই জানে। সেদিন ভারতে আসা আওয়ামি লিগ নেতাদের কাছে মুজিবের স্বাধীনতা ঘোষণার কোনো কাগজপত্র ছিল না। তাদের একমাত্র সম্বল ছিল- বাঙালি যুবকদের স্বতঃস্ফূর্ত স্বাধীনতা ঘোষণা। 
*
ইয়াহিয়া ও ভুট্টোর সঙ্গে গোপন বোঝাপড়ার কথা মুজিব কাউকে বলেননি। সেই চরম মুহূর্তে তিনি স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশ ঘোষণাও করলেন না। কেননা মুজিব, ইয়াহিয়া ও ভুট্টোর পরিকল্পনা ছিল মাতৃগর্ভে “বাংলাদেশ” শিশুটিকে হত্যা করা আর মুজিবের মনেও দৃঢ় বিশ্বাস ছিল যে তার ঘোষণা ও নেতৃত্ব ছাড়া বাংলাদেশ কোনদিনই স্বাধীন হতে পারবে না।

বহুদিনে বহু ঘটনার সত্যতা প্রমাণের ভিত্তিতে রচিত হয় একটি প্রবাদ। রাখে হরি মারে কে? ধর্মের কল বাতাসে নড়ে।” এগুলি একই জাতীয় বাংলা প্রবাদ। এগুলির সত্যতা প্রামাণের জন্যই মুজিবের গ্রেপ্তারের খবর পেয়ে বাঙালি সুলভ আবেগ ও সেনাসুলভ সাহসে জ্বলে ওঠে মেজর জিয়াউরের মন। চট্টগ্রাম বেতার কেন্দ্র থেকে বাংলাদেশ শিশুটির জীবিত অবস্থায় জন্মের ঘোষণা মুজিবের নামে তিনি দিলেন।…এভাবেই তিনি মুজিবের নামে স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশের ঘোষণা দিলেন সেই চরম মুহূর্তে। সেই আবেদনে সাড়া দিতে ও শিশুটিকে বাঁচাতে রক্ত শপথ নিয়ে বাঙালি রুখে দাঁড়াল দিকে দিকে। শুরু হল স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রাম আর ভারতের সাহায্যে শেষ পর্যন্ত বাংলাদেশ স্বাধীন হল।’’ (পৃষ্ঠা-১৩৯,১৪০)

*অস্থায়ী সরকার গঠন *
যুদ্ধ শুরুর প্রেক্ষাপটের বর্ণনা দিতে গিয়ে কালিদাস বৈদ্য লিখেন; ‘‘সময়মতো জিয়াউরের ঘোষণা পাক আর্মির প্রাথমিক তাণ্ডব ও বাঙালি যুবকদের যুদ্ধ ঝাঁপিয়ে পড়ার সাহস ও আবেগ দেখে তাজুদ্দিন, নজরুল ইসলাম সহ আওয়ামি লিগ নেতারা ও বিশেষ বিশেষ ছাত্র নেতারা সাহায্যের জন্য ভারতে ছুটে আসে। তার জন্য চিত্তবাবু আগে ক্ষেত্র প্রস্তুত করে রেখেছিলেন। আওয়ামী লীগ নেতারা দিল্লীতে পৌঁছে সেই আবেগী স্বভাবকে সাহায্য ও মদত পাওয়ার আশ্বাসে অস্থায়ী বাংরাদেশ সরকার ঘোষণা করে ১২ই এপ্রিল আর শপথ নেয় ১৭ই এপ্রিল’৭১।

সেদিন ইসলামিক জাতীয়তাবাদের কথা ভুলে আবেগে সাময়িকভাবে বাঙালি জাতীয়তাবাদকে ভিত্তি করেই ছাত্র যুবকদের দল স্বাধীনতা ঘোষণা করেছিল। তখন ছাত্রজনতার চাপে জিয়াউর রহমান শেখ মুজিবের নামে স্বাধীনতা ঘোষনার খবরটি প্রচার করেছিলেন। ঠিক সেই একই আবেগ নিয়ে বাংলাদেশ সরকার ঘোষিত হল। সেদিন জিয়াউর যেমন মুজিবের নাটকের শেষ অঙ্ক দেখেননি বা জানতে পারেননি তেমন প্রায় সব নেতাসহ তাজুদ্দিনও সে নাটকের শেষ অঙ্কের কথা জানতে পারেননি। আর ভারত সরকার সব বুঝতে পেরেও হয়তো সব না বোঝার ভান করেছে। কেননা তা জানার কথা বলতে গেলেই তাতে সমস্যা বাড়বে। তাতে বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা বানচাল হতে পারে। তখন ছুঁচো গেলার মতো অবস্থা ভারতের”। (পৃষ্ঠা-১৪০,১৪১)
শালীনতার সকল সীমা লংঘন করে এদেশের জন মানুষের খুব কাছের নেতা শেখ মুজিবুর রহমানকে অস্রাব্য ভাষায় তিরষ্কার করে কালিদাস বাবু তার বইয়ে লিখেছেন,

“ বিবাহ বন্ধন ছেদ করে কোনো নারী বাড়ির বাইরে গেলে তার দুর্বলতার কারণে অনেক পুরুষ তার ইচ্ছায় ও অনেক সময় অনিচ্ছায় তাকে ভোগ করার সুযোগ নেয়। তার গর্ভে সন্তান এলে সেই অবৈধ সন্তানের পিতৃত্বের দাবি নিয়ে কেউ এগিয়ে আসে না। কারণ নারীটি তো অনেকের সাহচর্যে এসেছে। কাজেই তার খাঁটি পিতার পরিচয়ের কথা কেউই বলতে পারে না। তবে একজন বিশেষ পুরুষ ও উক্ত নারী একই রাতে স্বপ্ন দেখে যে উক্ত শিশুটির জন্মের পরে তার প্রকৃত পিতার মৃত্যু সমূহ সম্ভাবনা আছে, নারীটিও চিরপঙ্গু হয়ে যাবে, তবে শিশুটি মৃত অবস্থায় জন্ম নিলে বা জন্মের পরেই তার মৃত্যু হলে সে আশঙ্কা থাকবে না। তারপর নিশ্চয়ই উক্ত পুরুষ নারীর গর্ভপাত ঘটিয়ে শিশুটির মৃত্যু কামনা করবে। তাতে নারীটিও চির পঙ্গত্ব থেকে রক্ষা পাবে। পুরুষটির জীবনও রক্ষা পাবে। আর সুস্থ শরীরে নারীটিকে পুরুষটি ইচ্ছামতো ভোগ করতে পারবে। উভয়ের এ সিদ্ধান্তের পরে যদি সমাজ উক্ত পুরুষটিকে সেই অবৈধ সন্তানের পিতা হওয়ার জন্যই পুরুষটির উপর চাপ সৃষ্টি করে তবে পুরুষটি কিছুতেই রাজি হতে পারে না। মুজিব সেই পুরুষটির ভূমিকাই পালন করলেন। ছাত্রজনতা চাপ দিতে থাকল। সেই চাপের কাছে মুজিব তখন নত হলেন না বরং ভাবী বাংলাদেশ শিশুটিতে হত্যার ভার ইয়াহিয়ার উপর ছেড়ে দিয়ে নিজের জীবন বাঁচাতে ও নিরাপদে সময় কাটাতে চলে যান ইসলামাবাদে”। (পৃষ্ঠা ১৪২-১৪৩)

“সংগ্রাম শুরু হল কলকাতায়” এই শিরোনামে লিখতে গিয়ে বাবু কালিদাস বৈদ্য তার বইয়ে লিখেছেন, “…আমরা কলকাতায় পৌছাই খুব সম্ভব ১৩ই এপ্রিল ৭১। আমাদের কলকাতা পৌছাবার আগেই ১২ই এপ্রিল বাংলাদেশে সরকার ঘোষিত হয় আর ১৭ই এপ্রিল মন্ত্রীরা শপথ নেন। আগেই বলা হয়েছে সে সরকারের প্রধানমন্ত্রী হন তাজুদ্দিন আহম্মদ। সেই সরকার ঘোষিত হওয়ার পূর্বে তিনি চিত্তবাবু ও ছাত্রনেতাদের সঙ্গে প্রাথমিক কোনো আলোচনা করেননি। চিত্তবাবু ছিলেন মুজিবের স্বীকৃত নিজস্ব প্রতিনিধি। স্বাধীনতার প্রাথমিক প্রস্তুতি নিতেই কলকাতা আসেন তিনি। আর ছাত্রদের মধ্যে যে ৪ জন নেতার একান্ত প্রচেষ্টায় মুজিবের আন্দোলন তুঙ্গে ওঠে তারা কেউই এই সরকার গঠনের প্রাক্কালে কিছুই জানতে পারল না। …ছাত্রনেতারা প্রথমদিকে ভীষণভাবে চটে যায়। তারা প্রকাশ্যভাবে তাজুদ্দিনের বিরদ্ধে বিদ্রোহ ঘোষণা করার কথা চিন্তা করতে থাকে। আর চিত্তবাবু মনে মনে দুঃখ পেলেও তা হজম করেন বৃহত্তর স্বার্থের দিকে তাকিয়ে।

… তাই তিনি নিজে ও ভারতের ভারপ্রাপ্ত একজন অফিসার মিলে বুঝিয়ে সুঝিয়ে ছাত্রনেতাদের নিবৃত্ত করেন।…… আমার সেদিন মনে হয়েছিল যে ভারত সরকার সেদিন বুঝেছিল মুজিব স্বেচ্ছায় গ্রেপ্তার বরণ করেছেন। তাই আগরতলা থেকে বি.এস.এফ প্লেনে উক্ত ৬ জন নেতা দিল্লীতে পৌছানোর সঙ্গে সঙ্গে ভারত সরকার তাদেরকে দিয়ে তাড়াতাড়ি স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশ সরকার গঠনের সিদ্ধান্ত নেয়। সেভাবে সরকার গঠিত ও ঘোষিত হয় ১২ই এপ্রিল ৭১। মুজিব নিজে বিশ্বাসভঙ্গ করেছিল জেনেই তার বিশ্বস্ত প্রতিনিধি চিত্তবাবু ও ৪ জন ছাত্রনেতা কেন, কারো সাথে আলোচনার জন্য সময় ও সুযোগ ভারত সরকার এই মন্ত্রীদের দেয়নি। তখন ভারত সরকারের সামনে প্রথম ও প্রধান কাজ ছিল বাংলাদেশ সরকার গঠন ও ঘোষণা”। (পৃষ্ঠা ১৪৯-১৫০)

*উচ্চ ক্ষমতা সম্পন্ন ‘অসাম্প্রদায়িক’ বাহিনী গঠন*
স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামে মুক্তিবাহিনীতে যারা যোগ দিয়েছিল তাদের প্রতি কালিদাস বাবু ও চিত্তরঞ্জন ছুতারদের আস্থা ছিল কম, তাই তাদের প্রতিপক্ষের “মুজিব বাহিনী” নামে একটি বাহিনী গঠণ করেছিল তারা। এ প্রসঙ্গে বাবু কালিদাস বাবু তার বইয়ে লিখেছেন, “ চিত্তবাবু ও আমি এক গোপন আলোচনায় বসি। সেই ভয়াবহ পরিস্থিতিকে কিভাবে মোকাবিলা করা যায় সেই পথের অনুসন্ধানই ছিল আমাদের মূল আলোচ্য বিষয়। সেদিনের আলোচনায় দুটি পথের কথা আমরা চিন্তা করি। *তার প্রথমটি হলো হিন্দু ছেলেদের আলাদাভাবে গোপনে ট্রেনিং এর ব্যবস্থা করা। আর দ্বিতীয়টি হলো মুক্তি বাহিনী ছাড়াও আরও একটি উচ্চ ক্ষমতা সম্পন্ন বাহিনী গঠন করা।* তারা একদিকে যেমন উন্নত ধরনের সামরিক শিক্ষা পাবে তেমনি অন্যদিকে অসাম্প্রদায়িক হওয়ার জন্য তাদের বাস্তব শিক্ষা দিতে হবে। এই অসাম্প্রদায়িক বাহিনী বাংলাদেশের প্রকৃত সামরিক ক্ষমতা তাদের হাতে নেবে। বাংলাদেশকে তারাই চালাবে সাম্প্রদায়িক মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের শক্তি খর্ব করে। তাদের হাতে সমস্ত ক্ষমতা যাতে যায় প্রথম থেকেই সেরকম ব্যবস্থা নিতে হবে। তার ফলে সেখানে অসাম্প্রদায়িক পরিবেশ থাকবে।

বৈঠকের শেষের দিকে চিত্তবাবু প্রস্তাব করেন, *এই বাহিনীর নাম হবে মুজিব বাহিনী*। সঙ্গে সঙ্গে আমি তার স্বীকৃতি জানাই। ওদিন আরও আলোচনা হয় সেই মুজিব বাহিনীর নেতৃত্ব ও কর্তৃত্ব থাকবে ৪ জন ছাত্রনেতার হাতে। ওদিন আমরা বিশেষভাবে আলোচনা করি যে প্রথমে সিরাজুল আলমের সম্মতি পেলেই প্রস্তাবটির পক্ষে ৪ ছাত্রনেতার সমর্থন পাওয়া সহজ হবে। কেননা শেখ মণি তার মামার নামের বাহিনীর বিরোধিতা কখনই করবেন না। মণি ও সিরাজুল একমত হলে রেজ্জাক ও তোফায়েল কোনো বিরোধিতা করবে না। এই প্রস্তাবে সম্মতি আদায় করার দায়িত্ব চিত্তবাবু নিজেই নিলেন।…চিত্তবাবুও একটু ঘোরা পথে আলাদাভাবে তাদের প্রত্যেককে জানিয়ে দেন যে ব্যবস্থাটি তাদের পক্ষে একটি আশীর্বাদ ছাড়া আর কিছুই না। শেষের দিকে চিত্তবাবুর পরোক্ষ নির্দেশ মতো সিরাজুল আলম খানের প্রস্তাবে সবাই সম্মতি জানায়।

এই প্রস্তাবটি গ্রহণের পরে ছাত্রনেতারা মনে করল ভারত সরকার প্রস্তাবটির অনুমোদন দিলেও সেভাবে কাজ করলে বাংলাদেশ সরকার তাদের মতের বাইরে কখনও যেতে পারবে না। আর আমাদের চিন্তা থাকল- দুই বাহিনীর অর্থাৎ মুজিব বাহিনী ও মুক্তিবাহিনীর মধ্যে রেষারেষি চলতে থাকবে। সঙ্গে বাংলাদেশ সরকারের সাথেও মতানৈক্য চলবে। হিন্দুবাহিনী গঠন করতে পারলে তারা হবে মধ্যশক্তি। তাদের কথা তখন শেষকথা।

*সিরাজুল আলমের কথামত তারা চিত্তবাবুকে জানিয়ে দেয় যে এই ট্রেনিং এর কথা সম্পূর্ণ গোপন রাখতে হবে।…এই প্রস্তাবটি পরের দিনই বিশেষ নির্ভরযোগ্য ব্যক্তির মাধ্যমে অতি গোপনে প্রধানমন্ত্রী ইন্দিরা গান্ধীর কাছে পাঠিয়ে দেওয়া হয়। তিনিও সঙ্গে সঙ্গে তার অনুমোদন দেন। তারপরেই জেনারেল উবানের অধীনে তাড়াতাড়ি মুজিব বাহিনীর গোপন ট্রেনিং শুরু হয়। খুব সম্ভব মে মাসের মাঝামাঝি সে ট্রেনিং শুরু হয়।*

ট্রেনিংপ্রাপ্ত মুজিব বাহিনীর সেনারা দলে দলে বাংলাদেশে গোপনে ঢুকতে থাকলেও একটি বিশেষ দলকে বিশেষ কারণে কলকাতায় রেখে দেওয়া হয়। এ ভাবে বাংলাদেশের ভেতরে গোপনে ঢোকার সময় একটি দল হঠাৎ সজাগ বি.এস.এফ-এর নজরে পড়ে। বি.এস.এফ.-এর জোয়ানরা তাদের চ্যালেঞ্জ করে। তখন বাধ্য হয়ে মুজিব বাহিনীর সেনারা সারেন্ডার করে। পরে একটি বিশেষ ফোন পেয়ে বি.এস.এফ-এর জোয়ানরা তাদের বাংলাদেশের ভিতরে ঢুকতে সাহায্য করে সত্য কিন্তু ইতিমধ্যে ব্যাপারটি জানাজানি হয়ে যায়। তাতে বাংলাদেশ সরকার ও তার প্রধান সেনাপতি ভীষণ চটে যান। চটে যান ভারতের পূর্বাঞ্চলের সেনা প্রধান জেনারেল আরোরাও। তারা মুজিব বাহিনীর প্রতি কঠোর ব্যবস্থা নিতে গিয়ে প্রত্যেকেই বুঝতে পারলেন যে মুজিব বাহিনীর খুঁটি বড় শক্ত। তা জেনে তারা প্রত্যেকেই সেই সেনাদের ক্ষমতা অটুট রেখেই মুজিব বাহিনীর সঙ্গে সমঝোতায় আসতে বাধ্য হন”। (পৃষ্ঠা ১৫৮,১৫৯,১৬০)

*ভারতে হিন্দু ছেলেদের আলাদা ট্রেনিং প্রসঙ্গে বাবু কালিদাস বৈদ্য লিখেছেন, “ ভারত সরকার ভালোভাবে বুঝতে পারে যে বাংলাদেশে হিন্দুদের ভবিষ্যৎ আরও করুণ হবে। তা বিশেষ করে বুঝতে পারেন ভারত সরকারের সেই বিদেশ সচিব নাথবাবু। তারাই একান্ত প্রচেষ্টায় হিন্দু ছেলেদের আলাদাভাবে গোপন ট্রেনিং এর ব্যবস্থা হয়। সে ব্যবস্থামত সপ্তাহে ৬০০ জন ছেলে ট্রেনিং নিতে যাওয়া শুরু করে। এভাবে ২৫,০০ পঁচিশ শত জন যাওয়ার পরে তাদের পূর্ণ ট্রেনিং পাওয়ার আগে ভারত পাক যুদ্ধ শুরু হয় আর ট্রেনিংও বন্ধ হয়ে যায়। তবে সময় প্রায় আগত।

ট্রেনিং এর প্রস্তাবটি অনুমোদনের সঙ্গে সঙ্গে এ বাহিনীকে আমি গণমুক্তি বাহিনী নামে দিই।* *যেহেতু একটি গোপন বাহিনী সেহেতু নামও গোপন থাকলো। এখানে উল্লেখ করার বিশেষ প্রয়োজন আছে যে চিত্তবাবু আড়াল থেকে মুজিব বাহিনী চালানোর দায়িত্ব নেন। আমার উপর দায়িত্ব পড়ে সেই গণমুক্তি বাহিনীকে আড়াল থেকে চালান। তবে মুজিব বাহিনী শেষ পর্যন্ত গোপনীয়তা ত্যাগ করে সদরে আসল কিন্তু গণমুক্তি বাহিনী সদরে আসার সুযোগ আর পেল না। কুম্ভকর্ণের ঘুমের মত সে ঘুমিয়ে পড়ল। সে ঘুম কবে ভাঙবে তা কেউ জানে না”*। (পৃষ্ঠা ১৬৩,১৬৪)
*
অস্থায়ী সরকারে ভিন্ন ধারা*
১৯৭১ সালে পাক ভারত যুদ্ধের প্রস্তুতি প্রসঙ্গে ডাঃ কালিদাস বাবু লিখেছেন,- “ বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা ঘোষণার পরেই ভারত সরকার যুদ্ধের প্রস্তুতি নিতে শুরু করে। তার জন্য সবদিকে তীক্ষ্ণ নজর রেখেই সে প্রস্তুতি চালাতে থাকে।* ভারত সরকার ভালোভাবেই জানত, বাঙালি সুলভ সাময়িক আবেগের ফলে স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশ ঘোষিত হয়েছে। ইসলামি মানসিকতা তারা সহজে ভুলতে পারে না। স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশের ঘোষণা না করে মুজিবের অযৌক্তিক গ্রেফতার বরণ ভারত সরকারকে ভাবিয়ে তুলেছিল। তারা গোয়েন্দা মারফত জানতে পারে যে পর্দার আড়ালে বাংলাদেশের বিরুদ্ধে ও অখন্ড পাকিস্তানের পক্ষে ষড়যন্ত্র ভারতে মাটিতে শুরু হয়েছে। তাতে প্রধান ভূমিকা নিয়েছে পররাষ্ট্র মন্ত্রী মোস্তাক আহমেত ও তার সচিব মহবুল হক চাষী। আই. এস. আই. এর মাধ্যমে মুজিবের সঙ্গেও নাকি তাদের যোগাযোগ হয়েছে। মুজিবের সঙ্গে পাকিস্তানের বোঝাপড়ার খবর মুস্তাক বিশেষ বিশেষ নেতার কাছে জানায়। ফলে বেশ কিছু সংখ্যক নেতা মুস্তাকের পক্ষে এসে যায়। এমনকি বাংলাদেশের সেনাপতি কর্ণেল ওসমানিও সে দলে নাম লেখায়।*

এসব খবর গোয়েন্দা মারফত পেয়েও ভারত তাদের বিরুদ্ধে কোনো কড়া ব্যাবস্থা নেয়নি। কিন্ত পরে বাংলাদেশের স্বীকৃতির বক্তব্য জাতিসংঘে বলতে বাংলাদেশ প্রতিনিধি দলের প্রতিনিধি হিসাবে মোস্তাকের নাম বাংলাদেশে সরকার ঘোষণা করার পরে ভারত সরকার তার পাশপোর্ট দেয়নি। তার জন্য তিনি সে দলের প্রধান তো দূরের কথা সাধারণ প্রতিনিধি হয়েও যেতে পারলেন না। ভারতের আশঙ্কা ছিল তিনি জাতিসংঘে বাংলাদেশের বিরুদ্ধে ও অখন্ড পাকিস্তানের পক্ষে বক্তব্য রেখে পাকিস্তানে চলে যাবেন। ভারত আর ফিরবেন না। তাই শেষ মুহুর্তে লন্ডনের বাংলাদেশের অস্থায়ী হাই কমিশনার আবু সইদ চৌধুরী বাংলাদেশ ডেলিগেট টিমের প্রধান হন ও বক্তব্য রাখেন। *আর লেঃ জেঃ নিয়াজীর অস্ত্র সহ আত্মসমর্পণ কালে বাংলাদেশ সেনা বাহিনীর নেতৃত্ব দেন কাদের সিদ্দিকী। কিন্তু বাংলাদেশের প্রধান সেনাপতি কর্ণেল ওসমানিকে ভারতে সে সুযোগ দেয়নি। *

১৯৭১ সালের অক্টোবরের দিকে পূর্ববঙ্গে সর্বত্র শান্তভাব ফিরে এল। সামরিক বাহিনীর হিংস্র রূপের পরিবর্তন ঘটল। কোর্ট কাছারি, অফিস আদালত হাট বাজার স্বাভাবিক ভাবে চলতে শুরু করল। পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের ভিতরে কোথাও কোনো উত্তেজনা নেই। সেখানের জীবনধারা সাধারণভাবেই চলতে শুরু করেন। মুক্তি ফৌজের কোনো নাম গন্ধ সেখানে ছিল না। মুক্তিযুদ্ধের কোনো প্রশ্নই আসে না। সে তখন সম্পূর্ণ শান্ত। আর পাকিস্তান সরকার বিদেশী সাংবাদিকদের পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের বাস্তব রূপের দৃশ্য দেখানোর জন্য ও তার প্রচারের জন্য আমন্ত্রণ জানাতে থাকে। ভিতরের শান্ত ভাব দেখেই পাকিস্তান সেনাদের সীমান্তে পাঠাতে থাকল। ভিতরের সেনা একেবারে কমে গেল। তা দেখেই বাঘা সিদ্দিকী মধুপুর জঙ্গলের আশ্রয়স্থল থেকে বেরিয়ে নতুন করে মুক্তিযুদ্ধ শুরু করে। ভারতীয় প্রচার মাধ্যম তা ফলাও করে বিশেষ কারণে প্রচার করে। যাতে বাংলাদেশ সরকার ও তার জনগণের মনোবল অটুট থাকে।

সেই শান্ত পরিবেশ পূর্ববঙ্গে ফিরে এলেই ইয়াহিয়া ও ভুট্টো মুজিবকে বলে যে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের অবস্থা সম্পূর্ণভাবে শান্ত। মুজিবও চারিদিকের খবর নিয়ে জানতে পারেন যে তাদের কথা সত্য। বিভিন্ন দেশের টি. ভি. দেখে সংবাদপত্র পড়ে ও রেডিও শুনে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের প্রকৃত অবস্থার খবর তিনি জানতে পেরেছিলেন। কেননা তার বন্দিত্ব ছিল সাজানো এবং এসব দেখাশোনার সম্পূর্ণ সুযোগ তার ছিল। আর ঢাকায় সীমিত প্রচার ছিল যে ছদ্মবেশে তিনি গোপনে ঢাকা গিয়েও সব দেখেছিলেন। জেনারেল ওসমানিও হয়তো তা জানতেন। তাই পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে সেই শান্ত অবস্থা দেখে এবং শুনে মুজিব বুঝেছিলেন যে স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশ হওয়ার কোনো আশঙ্কা আর নেই।

তখন পূর্ব সিদ্ধান্ত মতো ইয়াহিয়া ও ভুট্টো পাকিস্তানের প্রধানমন্ত্রী হওয়ার জন্য মুজিবকে অনুরোধ জানান। মুজিবও সেই প্রস্তাবে রাজি হন। আর মুজিবের মতানুসারেই পাকিস্তানের চিফ মার্শাল ল. অ্যাডমিনিষ্ট্রেটর ইয়াহিয়া খান ২৮ শে ডিসেম্বর ১৯৭১, ঢাকায় পাকিস্তানের জাতীয় পরিষদের অধিবেশন ডাকেন। উক্ত অধিবেশনের আগে মুজিব জাতীয় পরিষদের নেতা নির্বাচিত হবেন ও পাকিস্তানের প্রধানমন্ত্রী রূপে শপথ নেবেন। এই কথাই তাকে বলা হয় ২৮ শে ডিসেম্বরের জাতীয় পরিষদের ঢাকার অধিবেশনে মুজিবের যোগদানের সংবাদে পাকিস্তানের গোয়েন্দা শাখার (I.S.I) মাধ্যমে ঢাকা ও কলকাতায় অনেক আগে পৌছে যায়। কলিকাতায় আওয়ামি লিগের জাতীয় পরিষদের সদস্যরা যাতে বেশি সংখ্যক ঢাকায় ফিরে গিয়ে উক্ত অধিবেশনে যোগদান করেন তার জন্য গোপনে ব্যাপক প্রচেষ্টা শুরু হয়। কলিকাতায় বাংলাদেশ বিরোধী ষড়যন্ত্র অনেক আগেই পরারাষ্ট্র মন্ত্রী মুস্তাক আহমেদ ও তার সেক্রেটারি মাহবুল হক চাষীর নেতৃত্বে শুরু হয়েছিল। তা আগেই বলা হয়েছে।(পৃষ্ঠা ১৬৪,১৬৫,১৬৬)
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জাতীয় পরিষদের অধিবেশন ঠেকাতে ভারত-পাকিস্তান যুদ্ধ শুরু*
ভারত সরকারও তার গোয়েন্দা বাহিনীর মারফত সে খবর আগেই জেনেছিল। তার জন্য ঢাকায় পাকিস্তানের জাতীয় পরিষদের অধিবেশন ডাকার সঙ্গে সঙ্গে ভারত সরকারের ইঙ্গিতে কলকাতায় থাকা মুজিব বাহিনীর ছেলেরা জাতীয় পরিষদের সদস্যদের পাহাড়া দিতে শুরু করে ও রিভলভার দেখিয়ে হুমকি দেয়। ঢাকায় যাবার জন্য যারা চেষ্টা করবে তাদের গুলি করে মারা হবে। কারণ ভারত সরকার ভালোভাবেই বুঝেছিল যে, জাতীয় পরিষদের অধিবেশনে যোগ দেওয়ার আগে মুজিব প্রধানমন্ত্রীর শপথ নেওয়ার পরে পাকিস্তান ভাঙার বা বাংলাদেশ স্বাধীন হওয়ার কোনো সম্ভাবনা থাকবে না। ফলে এক কোটি শরনার্থীর বোঝা ভারতকে চিরকাল বহন করতে হবে। ইয়াহিয়া খান, ভুট্টো বুঝেছিলেন ঢাকায় অধিবেশনের সফলতার পরে স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশ হওয়ারও কোনো আশঙ্কা আর থাকবে না। তখন কলকাতার অস্থায়ী বাংলাদেশ সরকারের মন্ত্রীরা একে একে ধীরে ধীরে ক্ষমা চেয়ে পাকিস্তানে ফিরে যাবেন।

সেদিন ইন্দিরা গান্ধীর নেতৃত্বে ভারত সরকার একটি কঠিন ও বলিষ্ঠ পদক্ষেপ নিতে বাধ্য হয়েছিল। তাই আওয়ামি লিগের জাতীয় পরিষদের প্রতিটি সদস্যকে পাহাড়া দেওয়ার জন্য একদিকে মুজিব বাহিনীকে নিযুক্ত করা হয়েছিল। অন্যদিকে ভারতের স্বর্বস্তরে গোয়েন্দা বিভাগকেও তাদের চলাফেরার প্রতি সতর্কভাবে বিশেষ দৃষ্টি রাখার জন্য নির্দেশ দেওয়া হয়েছিল। যাতে তারা কেউ ঢাকায় ফিরে যেতে না পারে। তাতেও নিশ্চিত না হয়ে বাস্তবমুখী কর্মসূচী নিতে বাংলাদেশ ও ভারত সরকার ৭ দফার একটি চুক্তিপত্র সই করে।

এই চুক্তি সই করার পরেই শ্রীমতি গান্ধী যুদ্ধের ব্যাপক প্রস্তুতি নেন। ঢাকার জাতীয় পরিষদের অধিবেশনের সফলতাকে বানচাল করতেই ৩ ডিসেম্বর যুদ্ধ শুরু হয়ে গেল। শেখ মণি, আমি, তোফায়েল, রেজ্জাক, সিরাজুল আলম খান সহ আরও অনেকে ১৯৭১ এর ৩রা ডিসেম্বর সন্ধ্যায় চিত্তবাবুর বাড়িতে একটি ঘরে বসে ইন্দিরা গান্ধীর কলকাতার বিগ্রেডের জনসভায় ঐ দিনের বক্তব্য ও অন্যান্য নানা বিষয় নিয়ে আলাপ আলোচনায় যখন ব্যস্ত তখন হঠাৎ অন্য একজন ঘরে ঢুকেই খবর দিল যে, ভারত-পাক যুদ্ধ আরম্ভ হয়ে গিয়েছে। ভারতীয় বাহিনী বাংলাদেশের ভিতর অনেক দূর পৌছে গেছে। তখন তার প্রতিক্রিয়ার *সঙ্গে সঙ্গে তোফায়েল চিৎকার করে বলেছিল,

“ভারতের সেনা বাংলাদেশের ভিতর ঢুকবে তা তো আমরা চাইনি। আমরা যুদ্ধ করেই আমাদের দেশ দখল করব। তাতে যতদিন লাগে লাগুক।” একটু পরেই আবার তোফায়েল মন্তব্য করে, ভারতীয় সেনা সহজে আর ভারত ফিরবে না।” আমার দিকে তাকিয়েই একটু অস্বস্তির ভারত দেখিয়ে তোফায়েল আরো বলছিল- “দাদা কি বলেন” আমি কোন কথা না বলে গম্ভীর ভাব দেখিয়ে তাকে বোঝালাম তাতে তার মতো আমিও বিশেষ চিন্তিত। কিন্তু মনে মনে বলেছিলেম হাজার বছর ধরে যুদ্ধ করেও বাংলাদেশ বাহিনী কোনদিনই বাংলাদেশ দখল করতে পারবে না। *

ভারত বাংলা চুক্তিমতো উভয় দেশের সেনা নিয়ে যৌথবাহিনী গঠিত হয়। তার নেতৃত্বে থাকেন ভারতের সেনাবাহিনীর প্রধান জেনারেল মানেক স। তখন ভারতের সেনাবাহিনীর পূর্বাঞ্চলে কমান্ডিং অফিসার ছিলেন লেঃ জেঃ জে আরোরা। তার নেতৃত্বে ভারতীয় বাহিনী তথা যৌথ বাহিনী উক্ত চুক্তির ভিত্তিতে বাংলাদেশে প্রবেশ করে ৩রা ডিসেম্বর। রক্তক্ষয়ী তুমুল যুদ্ধের পরে ২৮ শে ডিসেম্বরের অনেক আগে ১৬ইং ডিসেম্বর তারা বাংলাদেশ দখল করে। পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের সেনা প্রধান লে. জে. নিয়াজী, লে. জে. আরোরার কাছে অস্ত্র সহ আত্মসমর্পণ করেন”। (পৃষ্ঠা ১৬৬,১৬৭,১৬৮)
স্বাধীনতার পর

পাকিস্তানের অখণ্ডতা ও সংহতি রক্ষার জন্য শেখ মুজিবুর রহমানের শেষ প্রচেষ্টা প্রসঙ্গে কালিদাস বাবু লিখেছেন, “ মুজিবের দৃঢ় বিশ্বাস ছিল যে তিনি ছাড়া কেউ বাংলাদেশ স্বাধীন করতে পারবে না। আর তাজুদ্দিন মুজিবের মনের কথা বুঝতে পারেননি। যে ভাবাবেগে জিয়াউর রহমান স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশ ঘোষণা করেন, সেই ভাবাবেগেই তিনিও মুক্তি সংগ্রাম চালাবার জন ভারতের মদতে বাংলাদেশ সরকার গঠন করেন ও সাফল্যের সঙ্গে মুক্তি সংগ্রাম চালিয়ে যান। শেষ পর্যন্ত ভারতের সাহায্য বাংলাদেশ স্বাধীন হলো। ফলে মুজিবের নিজ হাতে গড়া সেই পাকিস্তানের প্রধানমন্ত্রী হওয়ার বাসনা চিরতরে লুপ্ত হয়ে গেল। অধিকন্তু পাকিস্তানের নাম গন্ধও আর বাংলাদেশে থাকলো না। তাতে মুজিব পুত্রশোকের মত দুঃখ পান। ভারত সরকার ও তাজ্জুদ্দিনের বিরুদ্ধে তিনি চটে যান, কিন্তু চটে গেলেও তখন আর কিছু করার ছিল না। স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশকে নাকচ করার ক্ষমতাও তার হাতে ছিল না।

তাই ইয়াহিয়া ও ভুট্টোর সঙ্গে আলোচনা করে ভবিষ্যত কর্মসূচির সিদ্ধান্ত নিয়ে তিনি লন্ডনে যান। সেখানে বিভিন্ন দেশের প্রতিনিধিদের সঙ্গে তিনি আলোচনা করেন ও ভাবী কর্মসূচী নিয়েই দেশে ফেরেন। আনুমানিক হলেও সম্ভাব্য কর্মসূচী নিয়ে একটু আলোচনার প্রয়োজন আছে। কেননা সেই সিদ্ধান্তমতেই মুজিব দেশে ফিরে কাজ করেছেন। কয়েকটা বিষয়ে তারা তিনজনই একমত পোষণ করেছিলেন যে ভারতীয় সেনা বাংলাদেশে থাকবে। তার জন্য মুজিবকে ঢাকার মাটিতে পা দিয়েই ভারতের সেনাদের ভারতে ফিরে যাওয়ার ও ভারতের মাটিতে বন্দি পাক সেনাদের পাকিস্তানে ফেরত পাঠাবার ব্যবস্থা নিতে হবে”। (পৃষ্ঠা ১৭২)

*পাকিস্তানি সেনাবাহীনি আত্মসমার্পনের পরে শেখ মুজিবুর রহমান পাকিস্তান থেকে লন্ডন হয়ে ঢাকা আগমন প্রসঙ্গে লিখেছেন, “দিল্লিতে শ্রীমতি ইন্দিরা গান্ধীর সঙ্গে সাক্ষাৎকালে তিনি মুজিবকে ব্রিটিশ বিমান ত্যাগ করে ভারতীয় বিমানে ঢাকা যাওয়ার অনুরোধ জানান। শ্রীমতী গান্ধীর যুক্তি ছিল যেহেতু ব্রিটিশ সরকার তখনো বাংলাদেশকে স্বীকৃতি দেয়নি সেহেতু তার বিমানে মুজিবের ঢাকা যাওয়া উচিত হবে না। মুজিব সে প্রস্তাব নাকচ করেন ও ব্রিটিশ বিমানে ঢাকা যান। ঢাকার মাটিতে পা দিয়েই ঘোষণা করলেন যে, বাংলাদেশ পৃথিবীর দ্বিতীয় বৃহত্তম মুসলিম দেশ। কিছুদিন পরে তিনি আরও ঘোষণা করেন যে ভারতের সেনা এক মাসের ভিতরেই ভারতের মাটিতে বাংলাদেশ ছেড়ে ফিরে যাবে। এই শেষের ঘোষণার সুরটি ছিল একটু চড়া তা যেন অনেকটা হুকুমের সুর। পাকিস্তানে বসে ইয়াহিয়া ও ভুট্টোর সঙ্গে আলোচনা করে যে সিদ্ধান্ত নিয়ে এসেছিলেন সেই মতোই বিমান বন্দরে নেমে তার ইঙ্গিত দিলেন”*। (পৃষ্ঠা-১৭৩)

“স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশের কথা তিনি কোথাও না বললেও অন্যান্য নেতারা ও ছাত্র যুবকের দল স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশের প্রচার চালায় চারিদিকে। …তিনি নাটকের অভিনয় করেছেন। তাজুদ্দিন তার মনের কথা বুঝতে না পেরেই ভারতের সাহায্যে বাংলাদেশকে স্বাধীন করলেন। তাই মুজিবের সব রাগ তাজুদ্দিন ও ভারত সরকারের উপর পড়ল। ভারতের বিরুদ্ধে সরাসরি কিছু করার ক্ষমতা না থাকলেও আকারে ইঙ্গিতে তা তিনি প্রকাশ করেছেন। কিন্তু তাজুদ্দিনকে তিনি রেহাই দিলেন না। পাকিস্তান ভাঙার উপযুক্ত শাস্তি দিতেই কিছুদিন পরে মন্ত্রিসভা থেকে তাজুদ্দিনকে তাড়িয়ে দিলেন।…অথচ পাকিস্তানকে অটুট রাখতে কলকাতায় বসে বাংলাদেশের বিরুদ্ধে, যে মোস্তাক আহমেদ ষড়যন্ত্র চালান তার কোনো শাস্তির ব্যবস্থা না করে বরং তাকে মুজিব মন্ত্রিসভায় রাখলেন”। (পৃষ্ঠা-১৭৫,১৭৬)

শেখ মুজিবুর রহমান যে একজন স্পষ্টবাদি নেতা ছিলেন এ প্রসঙ্গে তাজুদ্দিনের একটি মন্তব্য কালিদাস বাবু লিখেছেন, যেখানে তাজুদ্দিন বলেন; “…ভারতের প্রতি কৃতজ্ঞতা জানাতেও তিনি মানসিকভাবে চান না। কিভাবে দেশ স্বাধীন হল, ভারত কি ভাবে সাহায্য করেছে তা কোনোদিন আমাকে বা নজরুল ইসলামের কাছে জিজ্ঞাসা করেননি। তা বলতে গেলেও তিনি বিরক্ত ভাবে তাকান। আর হাসতে হাসতে আমাকে একদিন বলেই ফেললেন “তাজুদ্দিন তুমি বাংলাদেশকে ভারতের কাছে বিক্রি করে দিয়ে এসেছ। তোমার ঐ চুক্তি টুক্তি আমি মানব না”। (পৃষ্ঠা-১৮৭)

*ইসলামিক জাতীয়তাবাদে বিশ্বাসী শেখ মুজিবুর রহমান*
শেখ মুজিবুর রহমান হিন্দু ও ভারতীয় সংস্কৃতির বিরুদ্ধে ছিলেন এবং ইসলামী জেহাদের একজন খাঁটি সেনা ছিলেন-এ প্রসঙ্গে কালিদাস লিখেছেন, *“হিন্দু তথা ভারতীয় সংস্কৃতির যে তিনি বিরোধী ছিলেন তার প্রথম প্রমাণ রমনা কালী মন্দিরের ২৬ একর জমির জবর দখল। সেখানে ১২০০ বছরের প্রতিষ্ঠিত পাক আর্মি দ্বারা ধ্বংসপ্রাপ্ত মন্দিরটির পুনর্গঠনের বাধা দেওয়া। পাক আর্মি এই মন্দির ধ্বংস করেছে ইসলামিক জেহাদ ঘোষণা করে।…মুজিবও ইসলামিক জেহাদের কাজটিকে শুধু স্বীকৃতি জানালেন না, পড়ে থাকা মন্দিরের সমস্ত জমিটিও তিনি জবর দখল করে বুঝিয়ে দিয়েছিলেন তিনিও ইসলামিক জেহাদের একজন খাঁটি সেনা।* শ্রীগুলজারিলাল নন্দের ঢাকা সফরের পর বাংলাদেশের বিভিন্ন জেলার আমরা ৪০/৫০ জন হিন্দু নেতা দেল বেঁধে গিয়ে মুজিবের সঙ্গে দেখা করি ও সরকার কর্তৃক জবর দখল করা মায়ের জমি ফেরত দিতে তাকে অনুরোধ করি। তাকে আরো বলি যে হিন্দুরা তাদের নিজ খরচে আবার সেই মন্দিরটি করতে চায়। তাতে সঙ্গে সঙ্গে মুজিব উত্তর দেন যে, ঐ জমি আর ফেরত দেওয়া যাবে না। আর সেখানে মন্দিরও করতে দেওয়া হবে না। তার বদলে তিনি শ্যামপুর শ্মশানের পাশে ১০ কাঠা জমি দেবেন। সেখানে হিন্দুরা মন্দির করতে পারে”। (পৃষ্ঠা ১৯২,১৯৩)

*শেখ মুজিবুর রহমান বুঝতে পারেন বাঙালি সংস্কৃতি একটি পূর্ণ সংস্কৃতি নয়-এ প্রসঙ্গে বাবু কালিদাস বৈদ্য লিখেছেন,
“বাংলাদেশের জন্মলগ্নে মুজিব বুঝতে পারেন বা পাকিস্তান তাকে বোঝায় যে বাঙালি সংস্কৃতি একটি পূর্ণ সংস্কৃতি নয়। একটি উপসংস্কৃতি মাত্র। তাও আবার ভারতীয় সংস্কৃতির উপসংস্কৃতি। তাই ভারতীয় উপর নির্ভর করে তাকে চিরদিন চলতে হবে। কালে কালে ভারতীয় সংস্কৃতির সঙ্গে সে মিশে যাবে। তখন আলাদা জাতিসত্তা আর থাকবে না। আলাদা জাতিসত্তা নিয়ে বাংলাদেশকে থাকতে হলে একমাত্র ইসলামিক আন্তর্জাতিক সত্ত্বার আশ্রয় নিতে হবে। তাহলে পাকিস্তানের মতো বাংলাদেশ টিকে থাকতে পারবে।*

শুধু পাকিস্তান নয় বিশ্বের ইসলামিক আলমেরা মুজিবকে বুঝায় যে ভারত ভাগ হয়েছে ইসলামিক জাতীয়তাবাদের ভিত্তিতে। এ সীমারেখা ইসলামিক সীমারেখা। এ সীমারেখার পাহারাদার হলো বিশ্বের সমস্ত মুসলিম রাজ্যের ঐক্যবদ্ধ শক্তি। ভারত কেন পৃথিবীর কোনো একক রাজশক্তির সাধ্য নেই কোনো ইসলামিক রাষ্ট্রকে আঘাত করে-তা বাংলাদেশ যতই ছোট রাস্ট্র হোক। তারপরেও যদি ইসলাম বিরোধী দালালেরা বাংলাদেশের ভিতরে বাঙালি জাতীয়তাবাদী প্রচার শক্তিশালী হয় তখন দরকারমতো পাকিস্তান ও বাংলাদেশ একই কাঠামোর মধ্যে এসে ইসলামকে বাঁচাতে হবে। মুজিব ছিলেন ইসলামিক জাতীয়তাবাদে বিশ্বাসী। বাঙালি জাতীয়তাবাদকে হত্যা করতে ইসলামিক জাতীয়বাদকে প্রচারে প্রথম দিক থেকেই মুজিব নজর দিতে থাকেন। তাই সহজে বলা যায় বাংলাদেশে ইসলামের পরিবেশ সৃষ্টি করতে সব রকমের প্রচেষ্টা চালান মুজিব নিজেই”। (পৃষ্ঠা ২০৯,২১০)
*ডা. কালিদাস বৈদ্য ও সাবেক এমপি চিত্তরঞ্জন সুতা’র মিলে ১৯৭১ যুদ্ধের পর ইন্দিরা গান্ধী’র কাছে গিয়ে অনুরোধ করেছিলেন বাংলাদেশকে ভারতের অংশ করে নেয়ার জন্য।মিস গান্ধী তখন বলেছিলেন ‘ইয়ে না মুমকিন হ্যায়’। তাদের বক্তব্য ছিল ‘যদি দ্বিজাতিতত্ত্ব নাই থাকে, তবে সীমান্ত থাকবে কেন?’ এরপরও তাঁরা বাংলাদেশের হিন্দু প্রধান অঞ্চল নিয়ে স্বাধীন বঙ্গভূমি নামে আলাদা রাষ্ট্র করার কাজ চালিয়ে গেছেন। [মাসুদুল হক, “বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা যুদ্ধে ‘র’ এবং সিআইএ” (পঞ্চম সংস্করন),প্রচিন্তা প্রকাশনী, ২০১১,পৃঃ ১৪০]

‘বাঙালির মুক্তিযুদ্ধে অন্তরালের শেখ মুজিব বইটির ই-বুক’

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## Banglar Bir

*মেজর ডালিম, Major Dalim FanPage
22 January 2016 · 



Indian Blue print and Mujibnagar Government 
ভারতীয় নীল নকশা এবংমুজিব নগর সরকার*
--মেজর ডালিম
*আওয়ামী লীগের অভ্যন্তরীন ক্ষমতার লড়াই এর পূর্ণ সুযোগ গ্রহণ করে ভারতীয় সরকার এবং গোয়েন্দা সংস্থা ‘র’- ‘ডিভাইড এন্ড রুল’ নীতি প্রয়োগ করে প্রধানমন্ত্রী এবং সর্বাধিনায়ক দু’জনকেই হেয় করে তোলা হয়।*

*তাজুদ্দিনের হঠাৎ করে প্রবাসী সরকার গঠন করে প্রধানমন্ত্রী হওয়াটা আওয়ামী লীগের অনেকেই পছন্দ করেনি। *তাদের মধ্যে ছিলেন যুব ও ছাত্রনেতাদের অনেকেই। অনেক সাংসদ এবং আওয়ামী লীগের নেতারাও এর প্রত্যক্ষ এবং পরোক্ষ বিরোধিতা করেছিলেন। শেখ ফজলুল হক মনি, সিরাজুল আলম খান, শাহ্‌জাহান সিরাজ, নুরে আলম সিদ্দিকী এবং আব্দুল কুদ্দুস মাখন প্রমুখ যুব ও ছাত্রনেতারা সবাই প্রকাশ্যে তাজুদ্দিনের এ পদক্ষেপের বিরোধিতা করেন। তাদের পরোক্ষভাবে মদদ যোগাচ্ছিলেন জনাব আব্দুর রব সেরনিয়াবাত, শেখ আবদুল আজিজ, মনসুর আলী, জনাব নজরুল ইসলাম প্রমুখ।* জনাব তাজুদ্দিনের প্রধানমন্ত্রীত্বের গ্রহণযোগ্যতা সম্পর্কে জেনারেল অরোরার মন্তব্য, “আওয়ামী লীগের যুবনেতারা তাকে পছন্দ করত না।” (বাংলাদেশের যুদ্ধের স্মৃতিচারন শিরোনামে নিখিল চক্রবর্ত্তীকে দেয়া জেনারেল অরোরার সাক্ষাৎকার।)*

সাধারণভাবে যুবনেতাদের অনেকেই সেদিন ভেবেছিলেন শেখ মুজিব আর জীবিত নেই। মুজিবর রহমানের অবর্তমানে তাজুদ্দিন তাদের প্রভাবকে তেমন একটা মেনে চলবেন না। শেখ মুজিব কাছে থাকলে এ সমস্ত যুব এবং ছাত্রনেতারা স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামে তাদের কর্তৃত্ব অতি সহজেই স্থাপন করতে সক্ষম হতেন। কিন্তু তাজুদ্দিন তাদের সাথে অন্য সুরে কথা বলছেন। তাদের হাতে ক্রিয়াণক হয়ে সংগ্রামের সব নেতৃত্ব তাদের হাতে ছেড়ে দিতে তিনি অস্বীকৃতি জানাচ্ছেন। তাদের সংগ্রামী ভূমিকাকেও ছোট করে দেখছেন জনাব তাজুদ্দিন। 

সরকার পরিচালনায় যুব ও ছাত্রনেতাদের মতামত তিনি সম্পূর্ণ উপেক্ষা করে চলেছেন। তাজুদ্দিনের ধৃষ্টতার শেষ নেই। তিনি সরকার প্রধান থাকার কারণে তাদের সুযোগ-সুবিধাও বন্ধ হয়ে যাচ্ছে। তিনি বঙ্গবন্ধু শেখ মুজিবর রহমানের আত্মীয়-স্বজনকেও যথাযথ মর্যাদা দান না করে তাদের উপেক্ষা করেছেন। তাদের উপেক্ষা করা, পরোক্ষভাবে শেখ মুজিবকেই উপেক্ষা করার সমতুল্য। অতএব, যে কোন মূল্যে তাজুদ্দিনকে প্রধানমন্ত্রীত্ব থেকে অপসারন করতে হবে। মেতে উঠলেন তারা এক ক্ষমতা লাভের চকক্রান্তে। পরিকল্পনা অনুযায়ী শেখ মনি ও সিরাজুল আলম খানের নেতৃত্বে কয়েকজন যুব ও ছাত্রনেতা দিল্লী গিয়ে ভারতের প্রধানমন্ত্রী শ্রীমতী ইন্দিরা গান্ধীর সঙ্গে দেখা করে তাকে জানান যে তারা শেখ মুজিবর রহমানের অত্যন্ত বিশ্বাসভাজন। 

পাক বাহিনীর হাতে শেখ মুজিবের গ্রেফতারের পেছনে জনাব তাজুদ্দিনের হাত রয়েছে। গ্রেফতারের আগে শেখ মুজিব তাদের সে কথা জানিয়ে তাদেরকে ভারত সরকারের সহায়তায় স্বাধীনতার সংগ্রাম পরিচালনা করার নির্দেশ দিয়ে যান। জনাব তাজুদ্দিনের উপর বাংলাদেশ থেকে আগত বেশিরভাগ আওয়ামী লীগ জাতীয় এবং প্রাদেশিক সাংসদদের সমর্থনও নেই। এ অবস্থায় প্রধানমন্ত্রীত্ব করার কোন অধিকার নেই তাজুদ্দিন সাহেবের। তাদের বক্তব্যের সমর্থনে তারা মুজিবর রহমানের ভগ্নিপতি জনাব আব্দুর রব সেরনিয়াবাতের একটি চিঠি শ্রীমতি ইন্দিরা গান্ধীকে প্রদান করেন এবং শেখ মুজিবের জেষ্ঠ পুত্র শেখ কামালকে তার সম্মুখে উপস্থিত করেন। তারা শ্রীমতি গান্ধীকে এ কথা বলেও হু্ঁশিয়ার করে দেন যে তাজুদ্দিন যদি স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশের প্রধানমন্ত্রী থাকেন তবে ভারতের স্বার্থও ক্ষতিগ্রস্থ হবে। কারণ জনাব তাজুদ্দিন শেখ মুজিবের নীতি আদর্শ কিছুতেই বাস্তবায়িত করবেন না। 

এই পরিপ্রেক্ষিতে দু’পক্ষের স্বার্থে তাদের নেতৃত্বে বাংলাদেশ থেকে আগত মুজিব ভক্ত এবং তাদের অনুগত তরুণদের প্রশিক্ষনের ব্যবস্থা করার জন্য তারা শ্রীমতি গান্ধীর কাছে আবেদন জানান। তারা বলেন, শুধুমাত্র এ ধরণের শক্তি গড়ে তোলার মাধ্যমেই স্বাধীনতা উত্তর বাংলাদেশ এবং বন্ধুরাষ্ট্র ভারতের মধ্যে অর্থবহ সম্পর্ক বজিয়ে রাখা সম্ভব। তা না হলে অচিরেই ভারত বিদ্বেষীদের চক্রান্তের শিকারে পরিণত হবে আওয়ামী লীগ সরকার। *তাদের এ অনুরোধ সাগ্রহে গ্রহণ করেন শ্রীমতি গান্ধী। সুদূর প্রসারী নীল নকশার কথা চিন্তা করেই Divide and Rule নীতির প্রয়োগের জন্য বিএলএফ পরবর্তিতে নাম বদলিয়ে মুজিব বাহিনীর সৃষ্টি করে সেকেন্ড ফ্রন্ট খোলার সিদ্ধান্ত নেয়া হয়। এভাবেই সৃষ্টি করা হয়েছিল বিএলএফ ওরফে মুজিব বাহিনী।*

*এ তথ্যগুলোও জনাব ওসমানীকে জানাই আমরা। তিনি সেগুলো জনাব তাজুদ্দিনকে জানান। প্রধানমন্ত্রী জনাব তাজুদ্দিন নাকি এ সমস্ত প্রশ্ন নিয়ে দিল্লীতে ভারত সরকারের সঙ্গে আলোচনা করেন এবং এর প্রতিবিধানের দাবি জানান। কিন্তু জনাব হাকসার, ডিপিধর, ‘র’ এর রমানাথ রাও এবং জেনারেল ওবান সিং এ ব্যাপারে তাজুদ্দিনকে এড়িয়ে গিয়ে নিরব থাকেন। ফিরে এসে কর্নেল ওসমানীকে সে কথাই বলেছিলেন জনাব তাজুদ্দিন। আমরা পরে কর্নেল ওসমানীর কাছ থেকে তার ব্যাখ্যা জানতে পারি। পরবর্তী পর্যায়ে মুজিব বাহিনীকে প্রবাসী বাংলাদেশ সরকারের ফোর্সেস হেডকোয়টার্স এর নিয়ন্ত্রণে আনার আপ্রাণ চেষ্টা করেছিলেন কর্নেল ওসমানী। কিন্তু তার কোন চেষ্টাই ফলপ্রসু হয়নি। নিতান্ত অপারগ হয়েই কর্নেল ওসমানীকে বিএলএফ তথা মুজিব বাহিনী সৃষ্টি করার ভারতীয় সিদ্ধান্ত মেনে নিতে হয়।*

ভারতীয় গোয়েন্দা বাহিনীর সহায়তায় ক্যাপ্টেন জলিলের ফোর্ট উইলিয়ামের পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় হেডকোয়াটার্সের কর্মকর্তাদের সাথে গোপন যোগাযোগ থেকে একটি বিষয় পরিষ্কার হয়ে উঠল। ভারতীয় সরকার শুধুমাত্র প্রবাসী সরকার এবং মুক্তি বাহিনীর সদর দপ্তরের মাধ্যমেই বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রাম এবং রাজনৈতিক গতিধারাকে নিয়ন্ত্রণ করছিল তা নয়, তারা ক্ষমতাধর কমান্ডারদের সাথেও সম্পর্ক গড়ে তোলার চেষ্টা করছিল। অত্যন্ত চতুরতার সাথে তারা তাজুদ্দিনের প্রবাসী সরকারের মধ্যে অর্ন্তদ্বন্দ্ব সৃষ্টি করে তাকেও দুর্বল করে চাপের মুখে রাখছিল যাতে তিনি তাদের নিয়ন্ত্রণের মধ্যে থাকতে বাধ্য হন। অপরদিকে মুজিবনগর সরকার ও মুক্তিযোদ্ধের সর্বাধিনায়ক জনাব ওসমানীর মধ্যেও দ্বন্দ্ব সৃষ্টি করে কর্নেল ওসমানীর ক্ষমতা সীমিত করে রাখা হচিছল একইভাবে। কর্নেল ওসমানীকে সাইড ট্র্যাক করে প্রবাসী সরকার ও ভারতীয় কর্তৃপক্ষের এ ধরণের কার্যকলাপে কর্নেল ওসমানী অতি যুক্তিসঙ্গত কারণেই ভীষণভাবে অপমানিত বোধ করছিলেন। তার বক্তব্য ছিল পরিষ্কার।

*ভারত বন্ধুরাষ্ট্র হিসাবে বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামে তাদের বক্তব্য অনুযায়ী মানবিক কারণে সাহায্য দিতে সম্মত হয়েছে সেটার জন্য বাঙ্গালী জাতি কৃতজ্ঞ। কিন্তু স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামটা পূর্ব বাংলার ৮ কোটি বাঙ্গালীর নিজস্ব সংগ্রাম। এ সংগ্রাম তাদেরই সংগঠিত করতে হবে*। 

*যে কোন ত্যাগের বিনিময়ে তাদেরকেই অর্জন করতে হবে জাতীয় স্বাধীনতা, সংগ্রামের নেতৃত্ব ও সব দায়িত্বও থাকতে হবে মুক্তিফৌজ কমান্ড ও প্রবাসী বাংলাদেশ সরকারের অধিনে। জনাব ওসমানী নীতির এ প্রশ্নে কখনোই আপোষ করেননি। এ বিষয় নিয়ে তৎকালীন প্রবাসী সরকারের নেতৃত্বের সাথে অনেক বির্তক হয়েছে তার। কিন্তু তার এ নীতির প্রতি সমর্থন দেননি আওয়ামী লীগের বেশিরভাগ নেতৃত্ব ও গণপরিষদ সদস্যরা।* 

তারা তখন নিজ নিজ ক্ষমতার বলয় তৈরি করতে ব্যস্ত। তাদের প্রায় সবার মাঝেই এক ধরণের উদ্ভট চিন্তা কাজ করছিল। শুধু রাজনৈতিক নেতৃবৃন্দই নয় অনেক আমলা এমনকি মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের সুবিধাবাদী নেতৃত্বের মাঝেও সেই একই চিন্তার প্রতিফলন দেখা যাচ্ছিল। তাদের ধারণা ছিল মুক্তিযুদ্ধ যে কারণেই হোক শুরু হয়ে গেছে। *প্রতিরোধ সংগ্রামকালে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের প্রায় সব অঞ্চল থেকে কোটি কোটি টাকা ও সম্পদ লুন্ঠন করে নিয়ে হিজরত করে চলে আসা হয়েছে নিরাপদ আশ্রয় ভারতে। *

একজন মুক্তিযোদ্ধা হিসাবে বলতে লজ্জা লাগলেও বলতে হচ্ছে পূর্ব পাকিস্তান থেকে পালিয়ে আসা অনেক বুদ্ধিজীবি ও হোমরা-চোমরা পদস্থ ব্যক্তিরাও মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের বীরত্বপূর্ণ মুক্তি সংগ্রামকে দেখতেন অত্যন্ত নেতিবাচক দৃষ্টিতে। তারা মনে করতেন বাঙ্গালী মুক্তিযোদ্ধারা কখনই পাকিস্তান হানাদার বাহিনীকে পরাস্ত করে দেশ স্বাধীন করতে সক্ষম হবে না। পাকিস্তান বাহিনীকে পরাজিত করতে সরাসরি ভারতীয় সেনা বাহিনীর হস-ক্ষেপ অবশ্যই অতি প্রয়োজনীয়। রক্তক্ষয়ী দীর্ঘস্থায়ী সংগ্রামে অংশগ্রহণ করার ইচ্ছা অথবা যোগ্যতা তাদের অনেকেরই ছিল না। যুদ্ধের ঝুঁকি এবং কষ্ট ও ত্যাগ স্বীকার করতেও তারা ছিলেন নারাজ। এতে করেই তাড়াতাড়ি 'হজ্জ্ব' শেষ করে প্রবাসী জীবনের কষ্ট থেকে রেহাই পেয়ে দেশে ফিরে লুটপাটের কালো টাকার আয়েশী জীবন খুব তাড়াতাড়ি আবার শুরু করতে পারা যাবে একমাত্র ভারতীয় বাহিনীর প্রত্যক্ষ হস্তক্ষেপের মাধ্যমেই। ভারতে হজ্জ্ব করার স্ট্যাম্প যখন একবার নিতে সক্ষম হয়েছেন তারা তখন দেশে ফেরার পর তাদের রাজ কায়েম করার পথে বাধা কোথায়? তাই যত তাড়াতাড়ি সম্ভব দেশটাকে স্বাধীন করে দেবার জন্য তাদের একাংশ গোড়া থেকেই ভারত সরকারের বিভিন্ন মহলে জোর লবিং শুরু করে দিয়েছিলেন।

সমস্ত প্রবাসী সরকারের মধ্যে শুধুমাত্র দু’জন শুরু থেকে শেষ পর্যন্ত এ ধরণের উদ্যোগের বিরোধিতা দৃঢ়তার সাথে করে গিয়েছিলেন। *তাদের একজন হলেন কর্নেল ওসমানী এবং দ্বিতীয় ব্যক্তি হলেন জনাব খন্দোকার মোশতাক আহমদ। এই দুইজন ছাড়া *সিনিয়র রাজনৈতিক নেতৃত্বের প্রায় সবাই এবং আমলাদের উচ্চপদস্থ প্রভাবশালী ব্যক্তিদের অনেকেই ভারতের প্রত্যক্ষ হস্তক্ষেপের মাধ্যমে বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা লাভের পক্ষপাতিত্ত্ব করছিলেন।

পরবর্তিকালে সিজরিয়ন অপারেশন এর মাধ্যমে বাংলাদেশের Premature birth এর জন্য মূলতঃ এরাও দায়ী ছিলেন অনেকাংশে। কিন্তু বেশিরভাগ মুক্তিযোদ্ধা, আমলাতন্ত্রের তরুণ সদস্যরা এভাবে অপরের কৃপায় বাংলাদেশকে স্বাধীন করার উদ্যোগের ঘোর বিরোধী ছিলেন। এ নিয়ে প্রবীণদের সাথে তরুণদের দ্বন্দ্ব ক্রমশঃই বেড়ে উঠছিল প্রতিদিন।

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## Flynn Swagmire

Kaushika said:


> Bengalis are most ungrateful people on the earth. Nowonder pakistanis are happy that you got separated form their nation.
> 
> @PAKISTANFOREVER
> 
> I dont blame tham, after saving honor of some of their honor what we got from these napak race ? Gaaliya.


He he he, we leaned lot of things from Brits. Now cry and die

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## bluesky

BANGLAR BIR said:


> * ১৯৪৬ সালের ১৬ ই আগষ্টের নৃশংস কলকাতার দাঙ্গায় নেতৃত্ব দিলেন।পাকিস্তান সংগ্রামের তিনিই হলেন পূর্বাঞ্চলের প্রধান সৈনিক।সুরাবর্দির প্রধান সেনাপতি ও ডান হাত শেখ মুজিব। সেই সঙ্গে মুসলিম ছাত্র লিগের একজন অন্যতম নেতা।যখন স্বাধীনতা আন্দোলনে হাজার হাজার হিন্দু যুবক হাসিমুখে প্রাণ দিচ্ছিল,হাজার হাজার হিন্দু দেশপ্রেমিক কারা অন্তরালে কাঁদছিল এবং হাজার হাজার আহত পঙ্গু যুবক মৃতুর দিন গুনছিল,তখন যুবক শেখ মুজিব স্বাধীনতা আন্দোলনে যোগ না দিয়ে হিন্দুর বিরুদ্ধে জেহাদের পরিকল্পনায় ব্যস্ত ছিলেন।এভাবে জেহাদের ডাক দিয়ে হিন্দুর বিরুদ্ধে যুদ্ধ ঘোষণা করেন।আর ব্রিটিশের সঙ্গে সেই ঘৃণ্য দেশভাগ চক্রান্তে লিপ্ত ছিলেন। ’’*



There is no doubt that Mujib certainly wanted a separate Muslim country for the Muslims. He fought for Pakistan movement until the Partition in 1947. But, Kalidas Boiddo is preposterous in saying that Mujib was instrumental in the riot of 1946. Even Suhrawardy was not responsible. It was the Hindus who attacked and killed the Muslims in the 1st round of the Action Day. Muslims gathered together and went after killing the Hindus in the 2nd round.

Mujib was in Calcutta, but did not participate in the riot. He rather helped Hindus in the Muslim areas to move to Hindu areas. He saved many innocent lives by doing this charity with the help of his associates. Please refer to his biography "অসমাপ্ত আত্মজীবনী" (Oshomapto AtmoJiboni) to know the details of that time. This Kalidas and the other two conspirators were Hindu supremacists who dreamed of making BD a Muslim entity without Islam always kowtowing India. But, this backfired because Mujib was not willing to accept India as the overlord of BD. This is why they are angry with him. He was not even for a separate BD.


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## wiseone2

asad71 said:


> Since you know nothing, just shut up.



Without Indian help there is a possibility Pakistan would have militarily crushed Bangladeshi revolt. I am not sure how long they would have controlled East Pakistan.

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## bluesky

wiseone2 said:


> Without Indian help there is a possibility Pakistan would have militarily crushed Bangladeshi revolt. I am not sure how long they would have controlled East Pakistan.


Without Indian direct involvement PA troops certainly would have crushed the revolt within a short time. But, BD people wanted to make the country independent by waging a long guerrilla war. But, neither India nor the AL leadership were ready for this. India was burdened with 9 million refugees and the AL leadership were not a fighter type of people. They were basically a bunch of idle street agitators.

Both the sides also feared the rise of Bangali communists led by Bhasani and Muzaffar who would have been more dedicated to do the fighting. So, to avoid giving them leadership, the decision to fight the December 1971 India-Pakistan war was taken. For India it was a good decision because if Indira Gandhi did not act then, she would have to wait for the next December when again the Himalayan snowfall would inhibit a Chinese incursion. Many things could have happened by this one year lapse. No one really knows what.

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## wiseone2

bluesky said:


> Without Indian direct involvement PA troops certainly would have crushed the revolt within a short time. But, BD people wanted to make the country independent by waging a long guerrilla war. But, neither India nor the AL leadership were ready to do this. India was burdened with 9 million refugees and the AL leadership were not a fighting group of people. They were basically a bunch of idle street agitators.
> 
> Both the sides also feared the rise of Bangali communists who would have been more dedicated to fight. The result was the decision to fight the December 1971 India-Pakistan war. For India it was a good decision because if Indira Gandhi did not act then, she would have to wait for the next December when the Himalayan snowfall would inhibit a Chinese incursion. Many things would have happened by this one year lapse. No one really knows what would have happened in that case.



I do not know Pakistan controls 60 million people with 100,000 army & paramilitary troops


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## bluesky

wiseone2 said:


> I do not know Pakistan controls 60 million people with 100,000 army & paramilitary troops


Yes, it was possible for a short time when the 100,000 troops had modern weapons against the 70 million people without guns. However, a long term guerrilla war was needed to liberate. India and AL leadership were not ready to relinquish their control over to the communists. So, it was December 1971 when the final battle was fought. China was unable to lend hands to Pakistan because the entire Himalayan terrain was under snow.

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## wiseone2

bluesky said:


> Yes, it was possible for a short time when the 100,000 troops had modern weapons against the 70 million people without guns. However, a long term guerrilla war was needed to liberate. India and AL leadership were not ready to relinquish their control over to the communists. So, it was December 1971 when the final battle was fought. China was unable to lend hands to Pakistan because the entire Himalayan terrain was under snow.



for how long ?? If India supplies anti-tank weapons Mukti Bahini rebels will pick off an Pakistani army convoy.


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## Banglar Bir

*শাহজাহান সিরাজের কিংবদন্তী রাজনৈতিক জীবন*


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## Banglar Bir

*A political party’s 60th birthday*

*Muhammad Quamrul Islam*

Colonialism is a terrible practice of subjugation involving political and economic control over a dependent territory. The face of British imperialism is too ugly if the first Indian anti-British revolution called Sepoy mutiny of 1857, the Jallianwala Bagh massacre, also known as the Amritsar massacre, of 13 April 1919, (in which over 1,000 were killed) etc. are kept in mind.
East India Company’s perfidy, atrocity

The East India Company obtained permission from the Mughal Emperor Shah Jahan to trade with Bengal, and with it began a long history of betrayal, atrocity, breach of trust, duplicity and perfidy.
The Partition of India in 1947 created two independent dominions, India and Pakistan. The boundary demarcating India and Pakistan became known as the Radcliffe Line, named after Cyril Radcliffe the head of the Land Border Commission.

500,000 people were killed — result of Radcliffe Line
Power was transferred from Britain to the newly independent countries of India and Pakistan. But there was a fatal flaw: There were no borders.

Radcliffe arrived in India 36 days before the date of the partition. On Aug. 9, 1937 he finished drawing the map, but the British viceroy Lord Mountbatten, his superior, kept it a secret.
It is regrettable that Radcliffe’s idiotic act saw millions flee across the border. Mass exodus followed. Thousands of Hindus fled Pakistan, most heading east. Millions of Muslims fled India, most heading west. More than 1 crore 5000,000 (one crore and fifty lakh) people had been uprooted, and 500,000 people were killed in the violence that ensued after independence, and millions more were injured.

*Father of opposition politics in Pakistan*
The father of opposition politics in the then Pakistan in early 1948, Maulana Abdul Hamid Khan Bhashani was the towering political figure at that time in the regional politics.
In 1937 Maulana Bhashani was elected Member of Legislative Assebly of Assam from Dhubri (South) constituency and served till 1946. He worked for the peasants of Assam and Bengal. In April 1944 he was elected the President of Assam Muslim League. Afterwards he devoted himself to Pakistan movement.

The Maulana returned to eastern wing of Pakistan. Soon it was felt ruling Muslim League government of East Bengal was not true to Islamic ideology and democracy it upheld but became subservient to central government deviated to favoritisms and nepotism and negate the demand to make Bengali as a State language.

*Moulana Bhashani: founder President of Awami League*
It led to establishment of Awami Muslim League on 23 June 1949 under the leadership of Maulana Bhashani as the founding President in Dhaka as the first opposition party of Pakistan. Shamsul Huq was the General Secretary. The word Muslim was dropped on October 21, 1955 and Awami League (AL) became the new name of the party. We were told Prime Minister of Pakistan HS Suhrawardhy while addressing a meeting at SM Hall of Dhaka University on December 9, 1956 stressed on the extension of relations with the West and criticized the demand for autonomy for East Pakistan by Bhashani who insisted on it as per electoral mandate of 1954 election by the people.

It led to the Council Session of the Awami League convened by Bhashani at Kagmari on February 7, 1957. After the Kagmari session Awami League leadership gradually began to be divided on the issues of full regional autonomy and foreign policy. Finally, the democratic workers conference in Dhaka on July 25 formed National Awami Party under the leadership of Bhashani upholding the demand for regional autonomy and neutral foreign policy. Soon NAP became strong mainstream national party with Awami League and Muslim League.

*Important observation on Moulana Bhashani*
To quote from the book published in 2012 of an eminent columnist and veteran newspaper editor, “If there were no Moulana Abdul Hamid Khan Bhashani (1880 - 1976)”, a man of steel, “there would not be Awami League; Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy (1892 - 1963) wouldn’t have migrated wouldn’t have migrated from Calcutta to Dhaka; and “there would not be Bangladesh under the able leadership of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman”.

After 10 years Awami League Preident Sheikh Mujib, placed 6-point demand at the national conference of opposition parties in Lahore on February 5, 1966 which provided for a true federation on the basis of Lahore Resolution. On next March 1, during council session Sheikh Mujib for the first time was elected President Awami League.

The old relationships between Bhashani and Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujib warmed up that led to the liberation of Bangladesh comprising territories of erstwhile East Pakistan in 1971 for emancipation of the masses and sustainable development. After emergence of Bangladesh AL and NAP were two mainstream parties. The Bangladesh famine of 1974 is a major source of public discontent. Corruption accentuated the miseries of the people. Bhashani was critical of the sordid state of affairs and reminded the government of the spirit of liberation and democracy till his death on November 17, 1976.

*National Awami Party (NAP)*
A tiny fra?tion of the National Awami Party (NAP) led by Prof Muzaffar which came out of the mainstream in 1968 and established pro-Soviet NAP, continued to remain so after independence and contested 1973 election. Prof Muzaffar’s wife is an MP of reserved women’s seat under 14-party alliance. As such efforts of ‘Bhashani Followers Co-ordination Council’ in 1990 reorganized NAP, unify all under leadership of Barrister Abdul Haq, but could not achieve unity, and were wound up on November 17, 2006.

Way back in the mid-1950s students of Comilla Victoria College like me became acquainted with annual election to çollege students’ union in 1955-57. Later on as a student at the Dhaka University in 1957 residing at S M Hall we had annual Hall Union polls, Dhaka University Central Students Union (DUCSU) election under the supervision of Provost of S M Hall which promoted democratic culture in peaceful academic atmosphere.

We were aware of history of the partition of India by the British colonialists into two —- India and Pakistan—-in August 1947, and in the family environment being born in 1940s in Bengal, the thriving province politically committed to achieve freedom from British yoke. I was born in Comilla town on 3rd July 1941. When I was 3 years old my father Advocate Muezzul Islam left for Kolkata along with family to promote his law and politics as well as facilitate studies of my elder brothers and sisters. Our contemporaries had varied experiences that we shared amongst us in student life as well as in later life which concerned citizens to pass to next generation in political and academic circles.

The people became citizens of Pakistan in East Bengal on 14th August 1947 as two wings of Pakistan were separated by thousand miles of Indian territory. We bear imprint of woes of tragic Kolkata riot killing innocent people of both communities in memory, which we came to know when grown up, was due to the machinations of vested quarters. After that there was influx of refugees in both ways between Pakistan and India, the implications of which are still felt as communal tensions have not subsided by partition and socio-economic emancipations of the people are yet to be achieved.
At present there are there are 30 parties registered with Election Commission. Except mainstream parties the AL, the BNP and the Jatiya Party many of the rest 28 have no electoral existences in the field. Under the circumstances people expect a free and fair election in a level playing field for all the parties — not like the controversial episode of 5 January 2014 when the majority of the Parliament Members were selected by the Prime Minister, and not elected by the electorate.

[The writer is an economist, advocate and social activist.] Email: mqislambd@hotmail.com

http://www.weeklyholiday.net/Homepage/Pages/UserHome.aspx?ID=10&date=0#Tid=14411


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## Banglar Bir

*Book will tell story of Pakistan, Bangladesh through architecture*
SAM Staff, July 15, 2017




The National Parliament House, or Jatiya Sangsad Bhaban, in Dhaka, Bangladesh, was designed by American Louis Kahn. Image: WikiCommons.
An assistant professor in the University of Kansas School of Architecture & Design, the Bangladesh native has received a Mellon-Volkswagen Fellowship to complete the writing of a book on the history of architecture in the nascent state of Pakistan. The fellowship is funded jointly by the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation and the Volkswagen Foundation.

“I am looking at the history of post-colonial Pakistan; from 1947 to 1971,” Karim said. “This is a time that has special significance in world history. Pakistan was created as a utopia. East and West Pakistan were combined together under a theoretical understanding of Muslim nationalism, even though they were 1,000 miles apart and even though East Pakistan, which later became Bangladesh, had different languages and cultural practices.”

When, after almost a century of imperial rule, Britain divested itself of the Indian subcontinent in 1947, it gave rise to two independent and religiously homogenous nations: mostly Hindu India and the two halves of mostly Muslim Pakistan that lay on either side of it.

_LAWRENCE — If it’s not quite a “secret history,” then Farhan Karim’s latest project is at least an overview of an overlooked phenomenon in an important region of the world._

When East Pakistan broke away in a 1971 liberation war to become Bangladesh, it sparked a secondary conflict between (West) Pakistan and India, the flashpoint of which was and remains the province of Kashmir.

“The bloody war was an embarrassing part of history for scholars who work in Pakistan and Bangladesh,” Karim said. “In scholarly discussions, there is a large gap. I’m an architectural historian, and that is an even much less discussed area.

“I am trying to understand through the lens of architectural history how this construction of a utopian Pakistan was structured through design, and, specifically, through state-sponsored architecture. The capital of Pakistan, Islamabad, was a completely new city, a la Brasilia in Brazil or Chandigarh in India. Groups of designers arrived at that site. They were excited, yet they had a plan. They were standing in the middle of nowhere and asked to build an entire city.”

At the same time, Karim said, Pakistanis had undertaken a “massive educational reform project.” The Brits had been kicked out, and yet Pakistan had not developed a native educational infrastructure. Thus, he said, “When Pakistan was in a total nation-building project, they did not have enough architects, so they partnered with the USA.”

“The United States became a Cold War ally to Pakistan. With grants from the United States Agency for International Development and the Ford Foundation, they went to Pakistan to build that infrastructure.”

Karim said consultants poured in from the United States, Greece, Turkey, Japan and Germany. Perhaps the most famous of them was the American Louis Kahn, who designed the National Parliament House for what was East Pakistan when he received the commission, but which later became Bangladesh. Kahn was invited to design the project in Dhaka by Pakistan’s then-leader, Ayub Khan.

“When it comes to architectural history, we understand Louis Kahn as a lone genius, creating his masterpiece, but he also had a good relationship with USAID,” Karim said. “His take on the Cold War intervention in South Asia needs to be discussed. When discussing architectural history, he saw himself as a representative of the United States, working in South Asia. When we look at how Louis Kahn saw himself, embedded in a larger sociopolitical context, a new story will appear before our eyes.”

Karim said he has been researching the subject for the past five years, poring over records in archives in the United States and Greece, among other places.

“I’ve been to 15 places in the last five years,” he said. “It’s an epic story that needs epic length to tell it.”

Karim has given his book the working title “Dreaming of a Nation.” The Volkswagen-Mellon Fellowship will give him nine to 10 months off from his teaching duties so he can complete his manuscript. He will travel to Berlin to work on the book at the ZMO (Zentrum Moderner Orient, or Center for Modern Oriental Studies) research institute there.

During his previous work, Karim said, “I realized how little we know about the contemporary design history of South Asia.” The book is his attempt to remedy that situation.

The University of Kansas is a major comprehensive research and teaching university. The university’s mission is to lift students and society by educating leaders, building healthy communities and making discoveries that change the world. 

*[With Special Permission from the KU News Service to Republish/Translate into Bengali for South Asian Monitor]*
http://southasianmonitor.com/2017/07/15/book-will-tell-story-pakistan-bangladesh-architecture/


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## Banglar Bir

*Mascarenhas' 1971 "GENOCIDE" Story Biased All Media Coverage of East Pakistan*

Pakistani journalist Anthony Mascarenhas' sensational story headlined "GENOCIDE", published by London's Sunday Times on June 13 1971, had a profound effect on all subsequent media coverage of East Pakistan, according to veteran BBC South Asia correspondent Mark Tully.

Mascarenhas (1928-1986) worked for "Morning News", a Karachi-based English language daily, when he was sent to report on East Pakistan in 1971. It's not clear how he ended up reporting for Sunday Times (now owned by Rupert Murdoch) but it's known that he and his family moved to take up residence in England before the publication of his "GENOCIDE" story. Here's how the BBC reported it: "Pretending he was visiting his sick sister, Mascarenhas then travelled to London, where he headed straight to the Sunday Times and the editor's office".

In a radio interview, Tully said in Urdu: "There are still significant questions in my mind as to whether the media coverage of Pakistani military crackdown in 1971 was balanced.....it (balanced coverage) became especially difficult after the Mascarenhas' exclusive dispatch (headlined "Genocide") published in The Sunday Times".







Mascarenhas' "Genocide" story was accepted on face value and widely disseminated by major western and Indian media outlets without any verification or fact-checks. Decades later, Sarmila Bose, an Indian journalist and scholar, finally scrutinized the story and found it to be "entirely inaccurate".

Bose's investigation of the 1971 Bangladeshi narrative began when she saw a picture of the Jessore massacre of April 2, 1971. It showed "bodies lie strewn on the ground. All are adult men, in civilian clothes....The caption of the photo is just as grim as its content: "April 2, 1971: Genocide by the Pakistan Occupation Force at Jessore." Upon closer examination, Bose found that "some of the Jessore bodies were dressed in shalwar kameez ' an indication that they were either West Pakistanis or ‘Biharis’, the non-Bengali East Pakistanis who had migrated from northern India". In Bose's book "Dead Reckoning" she has done case-by-case body count estimates that lead her in the end to estimate that between 50,000 and 100,000 people were killed on all sides, including Bengalis, Biharis, West Pakistanis and others, in 1971 war.

Here are the relevant excepts on the Mascarenhas story in Sarmila Bose's Dead Reckoning:

On Page 10: "_An interesting example is Anthony Mascarenhas' famous report in Sunday Times published on 13 June 1971. His eyewitness description from Comilla of how a Bengali, especially a Hindu, could have his life snuffed out at the whim of a single army officer serves as a powerful indictment of the military action, but his description of the army's attack on the Hindu area of Shankharipara in old Dhaka on 25-26 March--where he was not present--given without citing any source and turns out to be entirely inaccurate according to the information obtained from my interviews with survivors of Shakharipara". _

On Page 73: _"In his (Mascarenhas') book that followed his report in the Sunday Times condemning the military crackdown in East Pakistan, Anthony Mascarenhas wrote ," In Shankaripatti an estimated 8000 men, women and children were killed when the army, having blocked both ends of the winding street, hunted down house by house:". This is not an eyewitness account, as Mascarenhas was not there, and he does not cite any sources for his information---which in this case s totally wrong in all aspects. Mascarenhas' reports, like many foreign press reports in 1971, are a mixture of reliable and unreliable information, depending on where the reporter is faithfully reporting what he has actually seen or is merely writing an uncorroborated version of what someone else has told him.......According to survivors of Shankharipara, the army did not go house to house. They entered only one house, Number 52"._

Aided and abetted by the Indian and western media with stories like Mascarenhas', the Bangladeshi Nationalists led by the Awami League have concocted and promoted elaborate myths about the events surrounding Pakistan's defeat in December 1971.

Sheikh Mujib's daughter and current Bangladesh Prime Minister Shaikh Hasina alleges "colonial exploitation" of Bengalis by Pakistan and "Bengali genocide" by the Pakistan Army. They claim economic disparities between East and West Pakistan as the main cause of their "war of independence" in which "Pakistan Army killed 3 million Bangladeshis".

Let's examine the Bangladeshi claims on the basis of real facts and data known today as follows:

1. The per capita income in West Pakistan was 60% higher than in East Pakistan in 1971. But they never tell you that the per capita income in East Pakistan was higher than in West Bengal and India. They also don't tell you that the ratio of per capita incomes between Bangladesh and Pakistan has changed little in the last four decades since "independence'.






Per Capita Incomes Source: World Bank
2. Bangladeshi nationalists claims that "three million people were killed, nearly quarter million women were raped". These claims have failed the scrutiny of the only serious scholarly researcher Sarmila Bose ever done into the subject. Bose's investigation of the 1971 Bangladeshi narrative began when she saw a picture of the Jessore massacre of April 2, 1971. It showed "bodies lie strewn on the ground. All are adult men, in civilian clothes....The caption of the photo is just as grim as its content: "April 2, 1971: Genocide by the Pakistan Occupation Force at Jessore." Upon closer examination, Bose found that "some of the Jessore bodies were dressed in shalwar kameez ' an indication that they were either West Pakistanis or ‘Biharis’, the non-Bengali East Pakistanis who had migrated from northern India". In Bose's book "Dead Reckoning" she has done case-by-case body count estimates that lead her in the end to estimate that between 50,000 and 100,000 people were killed on all sides, including Bengalis, Biharis, West Pakistanis and others, in 1971 war.

3. Dr. M. Abdul Mu’min Chowdhury, a Bengali nationalist who actively participated in the separatist cause, in his publication "Behind the Myth of 3 Million", challenges the falsehood. Citing an extensive range of sources to show that what the Pakistani army was carrying out in East Pakistan was a limited counter-insurgency, not genocide, the scholar discloses that after the creation of Bangladesh, the new de facto government offered to pay Taka 2,000 to every family that suffered loss of life but only 3,000 families claimed such compensation. Had there been three million Bengalis dead, a lot more of such families would have come forward. The actual fighting force of Pakistan was 40,000 not 93,000. They were given the responsibility to maintain law and order and protect civilians from the India-backed insurgents of Mukti Bahini. India's Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw praised the professionalism and gallantry of Pakistani soldiers facing the Indian Army's 50:1 advantage in the 1971 war.

4. Now declassified US State Department transcript of an April 6, 1971 conversation between then Secretary of State William Rogers and National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger reveals that the US diplomats in Dhaka were also misled by false media reports of mass graves. Kissinger told Rogers that a reported mass grave of 1,000 dead Bengali victims of "genocide" turned out to be baseless.

Recent books and speeches by Indian officials, including Prime Minister Narendra Modi and ex top RAW officials, confirm what Pakistanis have known all along: India orchestrated the East Pakistan insurgency and then invaded East Pakistan to break up Pakistan in December 1971. Unfair and inaccurate media coverage payed a large role in helping India succeed.

Here's a video of Indian Army Chief Field Marshal Manekshaw talking about Pakistan Army in 1971 War:







What Happened in East Pakistan (Yuri Bezmenov Former KGB Psychological Warfare Expert). Yuri Bezmenov ex KGB Psychological Warfare Expert Explains What Happened in East Pakistan (Now Bangladesh) in This Video



Related Links:

Haq's Musings

India's Water Plans Alarm Bangladeshis

Ex Indian Spy Documents RAW's Successes in Pakistan

Shaikh Hasina's Witch Hunt

Bangladesh and Pakistan Compared

Economic Disparity Between East and West Pakistan

Is this a 1971 Moment in Pakistan's History? 

India's Hostility Toward Pakistan





http://www.riazhaq.com/2017/07/mascarenhas-1971-genocide-story-biased.html

*The courageous Pakistan army stand on the eastern front —Sarmila Bose*
"Clearly, the Pakistani army regained East Pakistan for their masters in Islamabad by April-May, creating an opportunity for a political settlement, and held off both Bengali guerrillas and their Indian supporters till November, buying more time — time and opportunity that Pakistan’s rulers and politicians failed to utilise." https://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2010/11/17/sarmila-bose-on-pak-army-in-east-pak-during-1971 war/

Authoritative scholarly analyses of 1971 are rare. The best work is Richard Sisson and Leo Rose’s War and Secession. Robert Jackson, fellow of All Soul’s College, Oxford, wrote an account shortly after the events. Most of the principal participants did not write about it, a notable exception being Gen. Niazi’s recent memoirs (1998). Some Indian officers have written books of uneven quality — they make for an embarrassing read for what the Indians have to say about one another.

However, a consistent picture emerges from the more objective accounts of the war. Sisson and Rose describe how India started assisting Bengali rebels since April, but “the Muktib Bahini had not been able to prevent the Pakistani army from regaining control over all the major urban centers on the East Pakistani-Indian border and even establishing a tenuous authority in most of the rural areas.

” From July to October there was direct involvement of Indian military personnel. “…mid-October to 20 November… Indian artillery was used much more extensively in support …and Indian military forces, including tanks and air power on a few occasions, were also used…Indian units were withdrawn to Indian territory once their objectives had been brought under the control of the Mukti Bahini — though at times this was only for short periods, as, to the irritation of the Indians, the Mukti Bahini forces rarely held their ground when the Pakistani army launched a counterattack.”

Clearly, the Pakistani army regained East Pakistan for their masters in Islamabad by April-May, creating an opportunity for a political settlement, and held off both Bengali guerrillas and their Indian supporters till November, buying more time — time and opportunity that Pakistan’s rulers and politicians failed to utilise.

Contrary to Indian reports, full-scale war between India and Pakistan started in East Bengal on 21 November, making it a four-week war rather than a ‘lightning campaign’. Sisson and Rose state bluntly: “After the night of 21 November…Indian forces did not withdraw. From 21 to 25 November several Indian army divisions…launched simultaneous military actions on all of the key border regions of East Pakistan, and from all directions, with both armored and air support.” Indian officers like Sukhwant Singh and Lachhman Singh write quite openly in their books about India invading East Pakistani territory in November, which they knew was ‘an act of war’.

None of the outside scholars expected the Eastern garrison to withstand a full Indian invasion. On the contrary, Pakistan’s longstanding strategy was “the defense of the east is in the west”. Jackson writes, “Pakistani forces had largely withdrawn from scattered border-protection duties into cleverly fortified defensive positions at the major centres inside the frontiers, where they held all the major ‘place names’ against Mukti Bahini attacks, and blocked the routes of entry from India…”

Sisson and Rose point out the incongruity of Islamabad tolerating India’s invasion of East Pakistani territory in November. On 30 November Niazi received a message from General Hamid stating, “The whole nation is proud of you and you have their full support.” The same day Islamabad decided to launch an attack in the West on 2 December, later postponed to 3 December, after a two-week wait, but did not inform the Eastern command about it. According to Jackson, the Western offensive was frustrated by 10 December.

On page 181 in "Dead Reckoning", Sarmila Bose says "it appears possible to estimate with reasonable confidence that at least 50,000-100,000 people perished in East Pakistan/Bangladesh in 1971, including combatants and non-combatants, Bengalis and non-Bengalis, Hindus and Muslims, Indians and Pakistanis".






*Taken from the Wikipedia entry:*_

President Richard Nixon viewed Pakistan as a cold war ally and refused to condemn its actions. From the White House tapes "The President seems to be making sure that the distrusted State Department would not, on its own, condemn Yahya for killing Bengalis".[75] Nixon and China tried to suppress reports of genocide from East Pakistan.[156] Nixon also relied on American disinterest in what was happening in Pakistan, he said "“Biafra stirred up a few Catholics. *But you know, I think Biafra stirred people up more than Pakistan, because Pakistan they’re just a bunch of brown goddamn Moslems*.”[157]

A 1972 report by the International Commission of Jurists (ICJ) noted that both sides in the conflict accused each other of perpetrating genocide. The report observed that it may be difficult to substantiate claims that the 'whole of the military action and repressive measures taken by the Pakistani Army and their auxiliary forces constituted genocide' that was intended to destroy the Bengali people in whole or in part, and that 'preventing a nation from attaining political autonomy does not constitute genocide: the intention must be to destroy in whole or in part the people as such'. The difficulty of proving intent was considered to be further complicated by the fact that three specific sections of the Bengali people were targeted in killings committed by the Pakistani Army and their collaborators: members of the Awami League, students, and East Pakistani citizens of the Hindu religion. The report observed, however, that there is a strong prima facie case that particular acts of genocide were committed, especially towards the end of the war, when Bengalis were targeted indiscriminately. Similarly, it was felt that there is a strong prima facie case that crimes of genocide were committed against the Hindu population of East Pakistan.[158]_


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## Reichsmarschall

wiseone2 said:


> I do not know Pakistan controls 60 million people with 100,000 army & paramilitary troops


there were only 3 divs in East paskitan that means around 40K troops

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## Banglar Bir

*Full text of "Hamoodur Rahman REPORT ARMY INVOLVEMENT IN CIVIL AFFAIRS"*
http://www.bangla2000.com/Bangladesh/Independence-War/Report-Hamoodur-Rahman/default.shtm













*Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report*

The War Inquiry Commission was appointed by the President of Pakistan in December 1971. In its secret report, never made public in Pakistan the commission, headed by then Chief Justice of Pakistan, Hamoodur Rahman, held widespread atrocities, other abuses of power by Pakistani generals and a complete failure in civilian and martial-law leadership responsible for the loss of East Pakistan. The report dwells on a range of sins: killing of thousands of Bangladeshis—both civilians and “Bengali” soldiers—rape, pan smuggling, looting of banks in East Pakistan, drunkenness by officers, even an instance of a Brigadier “entertaining” women while his troops were being shelled by Indian troops. It recommended a string of court-martials and trials against top officers . Nothing ever happened. The army’s role in splintering Pakistan after its greatest military debacle was largely ignored by successive Pakistani governments.

The Commission examined nearly 300 witnesses and hundreds of classified army signals between East and West Pakistan. The final report was submitted on October 23, 1974, detailing political, administrative, military and moral failings of then Pakistan.

*The Report* *PDF version*
Introduction

download
Cabinet note

download
Press release

download
Chapter 1

download
Chapter 2

download
Chapter 3

download
Chapter 4

download
Chapter 5

download
Annexure

download




To download the .pdf version of the report you need to have Adobe Acrobat Reader. Click here to download Acrobat Reader

https://archive.org/stream/Hamoodur...dur Rahman Commission Report Tanqeed_djvu.txt

Copied from:
*Al-zakir SENIOR MEMBER*





I know there has been discussion about the 1971 and separation of Pakistan. Weather we like it or not but it's the truth. I am posting this article about 1971 for sake of history and I believe this article present some good points. My intention isn't bring up any bad memory or hurt anyone feeling. 1971 is a truth and biggest blunder made by our forefather in the history of Pakistan. we the new generation of Pak-BD need live with this truth although it could have been avoided if both side compromised for the sake of saving Pakistan but they chose confrontation rather than peace. In 1947 they shed their blood for a separate homeland and in 1971 they bleed each other for separation of the same homeland. 

The separation of East Pakistan was a great setback to Pakistan. By 1970, sentiments for national unity had weakened in East Pakistan to the extent that constant conflict between the two Wings dramatically erupted into mass civil disorder. This tragically resulted in the brutal and violent amputation of Pakistan's Eastern Wing.

The physical separation of a thousand miles between the two wings without a common border, and being surrounded by Indian territory and influences, led to constant political, economic and social conflicts between the two wings; embittering relations bringing the country on the verge of collapse.

As a result of the separation of its Eastern Wing, Pakistan's international credit was depleted and the military, being its most powerful institution, suffered a lot. To some, the very concept of Pakistan as the homeland for the Muslims in Southeast Asia no longer appeared valid.

Trouble started right at the inception of Pakistan in 1947. Almost immediately, East Pakistan claimed that as their population (55 percent as compared to 45 percent in the West) was greater, they were in a majority. Democratically, the Federal Capital, therefore, should have been in Dhaka and not in Karachi.

Since Karachi was the seat of the National Government; ministers, government officials and industrialists exerted immense influence on national and regional affairs, which brought them many benefits. But the East Pakistanis were unable to extract the same kind of advantages, as they were a thousand miles away from the Capital. Moreover, the Capital initially attracted wealthy industrialists, businessmen, administrators, doctors and other professionals who had fled from India

The location of the Capital, it was said, created great economic imbalance, uneven distribution of national wealth and privileges, and better jobs for the people of West Pakistan, because they were able to sway decisions in their own favor.

Secondly, Bengalis resented the vast sums of foreign exchange earned from the sale of jute from East, which were being spent on defense. They questioned how the expenditure for the Kashmir cause would be justified, when it could otherwise have been productively used to build dams and barriers to control floods, eradicate poverty and illiteracy, and supply food and shelter for the ever-growing population in East Pakistan.

Thirdly, the people of the East believed that it was sheer regional prejudice that all white-collar jobs were taken by West Pakistanis.

Many mistakes were made early in the short history of Pakistan. There lived in East Pakistan about 15 million Hindus who, with the help of their fellow West Bengali Indians from across the border, were able to exploit East-West differences that emerged as a result of these mistakes. Grievances were exaggerated to foster anti-West Pakistani feelings that eventually created Bengali Nationalism and separatist tendencies. Bengali political leaders went around depicting the Central Government and West Pakistan as hostile exploiters. However, no effective efforts were made by the Government to check these anti-national trends.

Awami League, formed in 1951, was headed by Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rahman. He had always been an ardent Bengali nationalist. He began to attract popular support from Bengalis in East Pakistan. He put forward his Six Points that demanded more autonomy for the Provinces in general, and East Pakistan in particular. He was arrested in April 1966, and soon released, only to be rearrested and imprisoned in June the same year. He languished in prison until February 1969. 

Being deeply aware of the explosive political situation in the country, the then Chief Martial Law Administrator, Yahya Khan, set in motion moves to transfer power to the elected representatives of the people, and announced that the general elections would be held on October 5, 1970.

In all his election speeches, Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rahman reiterated his demand for implementation of his Six Points and provincial autonomy plans.

The 1970 elections were postponed from October to December due to heavy floods that caused immense destruction and havoc in East Pakistan. The sheer enormity of the disaster attracted worldwide attention. This gave Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rahman a golden opportunity to have an international audience for his anti-West Pakistan feelings, which he accused of brutal callousness. The Awami League gained much sympathy and benefit out of this suffering, and Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rahman and his people were portrayed on the international scene as victims of West Pakistan's indifference.

In the general elections held in December 1970, the Awami League achieved an overwhelming victory. They captured 167 seats, the highest number in East Pakistan and overall. In the West, the Pakistan Peoples Party had won 85 seats. The way was now open to draw up a new Constitution.

The Awami League, now overwhelmingly victors, stood firm on its Six Points plan and refused to compromise on that issue. The Peoples Party in the West maintained that the Six Points Program did not really permit a genuine federation. It was in fact a unique constitutional proposal that proposed a federation that had power only over defense and foreign policy. 

Efforts were made to start a constitutional dialogue and narrow the differences between the two Wings, but all in vain. Mujib-ur-Rahman's adamant stand in support of his Six Points, and his proposal that East Pakistan should have a sovereign status independent of Pakistan, further aggravated the situation.

Mujib-ur-Rahman launched a non-cooperation movement. The civil administration was totally paralyzed. All government and educational institutions were closed. People were asked not to pay any taxes. The transport system came to a standstill. Factories and shops were shut. All government activities between both the Wings ceased. The Awami League setup a parallel government. Gangs of local Awami League freedom fighters, known as Mukti Bahini, led violent demonstrations and howled racial and anti-West Pakistan slogans, inciting the people to more violence.

Amidst these disturbances, Genaral Yahya decided to convene the National Assembly in March 1971. But Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rahman unexpectedly put forward other demands such as the immediate lifting of Martial Law and power transfer to the elected representatives of the people, prior to the National Assembly session.

Unfortunately, on March 23, the Republic Day of Pakistan, the Awami League declared "Resistance Day" and Bangladesh flags flew all over the Province. There was a great massacre. East Pakistan had reached a point of no return. To quash the armed rebellion of Awami League militants, the Pakistan Army struck its first blow on March 27, 1971. Yahya Khan chose to use force to bring law and order in the country. 

In the meantime, India exploited Pakistan's dilemma to the full. It sought to wring full propaganda and strategic value for itself out of the Bengali suffering and misery. India launched an attack on East Pakistan on November 22, 1971. The use of modern Soviet missiles, geographical separation by a thousand miles lying across the hostile Indian territory, and the collusion of Mukti Bahini and the Indian Army, made Pakistan's military defeat in the East almost certain.

On December 10, 1971, the first feeler for surrender in East Pakistan was conveyed to the United Nations. On December 17, 1971, a formal surrender was submitted and accepted. Forty five thousand troops and an almost equal number of civilians of West Pakistan were taken as prisoners of war.


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## Deidara

Pakistani men loved Bengali women. Army officers and other well-to-do west pakistanis frequently took them as wives. I've met few of them as a child. Of course they are all older than 70 now and out of public life.


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## Banglar Bir

*East Pakistan: Even the Skies Weep
By HP-Time.com Monday, Oct. 25, 1971*

IN New Delhi last week, one member of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi's Cabinet was heard to remark: "War is inevitable." In Islamabad, President Agha Mohammed Yahya Khan spent the better part of a 40-minute television speech railing against the Indians, whom he accused of "whipping up a war frenzy." Along their borders, east and west, both India and Pakistan massed troops. Both defended the action as precautionary, but there was a real danger that a minor border incident could suddenly engulf the subcontinent in all-out war. 

Several factors are at work to reduce the likelihood of such an explosion. The Indian-Soviet friendship treaty, signed early in August, deters India from waging war without consulting the Soviets. At the same time, rising discontent and political and economic pressures within West Pakistan have also placed restraints on Strongman Yahya Khan and his military regime. Nonetheless, war remains a distinct possibility. As Mrs. Gandhi said last week at a public meeting in South India: "We must be prepared for any eventuality." 

Intolerable Strain. The current dispute has grown out of the Pakistani army's harsh repression of a Bengali movement demanding greater autonomy for the much-exploited eastern sector of the divided nation. The resulting flood of impoverished East Pakistani refugees has placed an intolerable strain on India's already overburdened economy. New Delhi has insisted from the first that the refugees, who now number well over 9,000,000 by official estimates, must be allowed to return safely to their homes in East Pakistan. 

Before that is possible, however, a political solution must be found that would end the Pakistani army's reign of terror, wanton destruction and pogroms aimed particularly at the 10 million members of the Hindu minority in predominantly Moslem East Pakistan (pop. 78 million at the start of the civil war). 

Once, Sheik Mujibur ("Mujib") Rahman, leader of the Awami League, the East's majority party, might have held the key to that solution. As the overwhelming winner of the country's first national elections last December Mujib stood to become Prime Minister of Pakistan; now he is on trial for his life before a secret military tribunal in the West on charges of treason. 

Though Islamabad has ordered the military command to ease off on its repressive tactics, refugees are still trekking into India at the rate of about 30,000 a day, telling of villages burned, residents shot, and prominent figures carried off and never heard from again. One of the more horrible revelations concerns 563 young Bengali women, some only 18, who have been held captive inside Dacca's dingy military cantonment since the first days of the fighting. Seized from Dacca University and private homes and forced into military brothels, the girls are all three to five months pregnant. The army is reported to have enlisted Bengali gynecologists to abort girls held at military installations. But for those at the Dacca cantonment it is too late for abortion. The military has begun freeing the girls a few at a time, still carrying the babies of Pakistani soldiers. 

A Million Dead. No one knows how many have died in the seven-month-old civil war. But in Karachi, a source with close connections to Yahya's military regime concedes: "The generals say the figure is at least 1,000,000." Punitive raids by the Pakistani army against villages near sites sabotaged by the Mukti Bahini, the Bengali liberation army, are an everyday occurrence. 

The fighting is expected to increase sharply in the next few weeks, with the end of the monsoon rains. Both the Pakistani army, most of whose 80,000 troops are bunkered down along the Indian border, and the Mukti Bahini, with as many as 60,000 guerrilla fighters, have said that they will soon open major new military offensives. 

Plentiful Arms. On a recent trip deep into Mukti Bahini territory, TIME Correspondent Dan Coggin found an almost surreal scene. He cabled: 

"Leaving the road behind, I entered a strange world where water is seasonal king and the only transport is a large, cane-covered canoe known as the country boat. For seven hours we plied deeper into Gopalganj subdivision in southern Faridpur district. The two wiry oarsmen found their way by taking note of such landmarks as a forlornly decaying maharajah's palace and giant butterfly nets hovering like outsized flamingos on stilt legs at water's edge. 

"As darkness approached, we were able to visit two neighboring villages, with about 25 guerrillas living among the local folk in each. The guerrillas were mostly men in their 20s, some ex-college students, others former soldiers, militiamen and police. Their arms were various but plentiful, and they had ammunition, mines and grenades. 

"A Mukti Bahini captain told me that the Bengali rebels are following the three-stage guerrilla warfare strategy of the Viet Cong, and are now in the first phase of organization and staging hit-and-run attacks. So far the guerrillas in the captain's area of operations have lost about 50 men, and larger army attacks are expected. But the Mukti Bahini plan to mount ambushes and avoid meeting army firepower headon. 

"On my way back to Dacca next day, I came upon a convoy trucker who had been waiting for five days for his turn to board a ferry and cross the miles-wide junction of the great Ganges and Brahmaputra rivers. As we huddled under the tailgate to keep dry, a shopkeeper joined us. Gazing at the puddle forming beneath us, he said: 'Even the skies are weeping for this land.' " 

Always Hungry. As conditions within East Pakistan have worsened, so have those of the refugees in India. The stench from poor sanitation facilities hangs heavy in the air. Rajinder Kumar, 32, formerly a clerk in Dacca, says he is "always hungry" on his daily grain ration of 300 grams (about 1&#189; cups). His three children each get half that much. "They cry for more," he says, "but there isn't any more." 

Malnutrition has reached desperate proportions among the children. Dr. John Seamon, a British doctor with the Save the Children Fund who has traveled extensively among the 1,000 or so scattered refugee camps estimates that 150,000 children between the ages of one and eight have died, and that 500,000 more are suffering from serious malnutrition and related diseases. 

It is now officially estimated that refugees will swell to 12 million by the end of the year. The cost to the Indian government for the fiscal year ending next March 31 may run as high as $830 million. The U.S. so far has supplied $83.2 million for the refugees, and $137 million in "humanitarian" relief inside East Pakistan. Two weeks ago, the Nixon Administration asked Congress to grant an additional $250 million. 

Senator Edward Kennedy charges that the U.S. is sending another sort of aid to the subcontinent as well. In spite of a State Department freeze on new military aid shipments to Pakistan, says Kennedy, the Pentagon has signed new defense contracts totaling nearly $10 million with the Pakistan government within the past five months. Kennedy's investigation also revealed that U.S. firms have received State Department licenses to ship to Pakistan arms and ammunition purchased from the Soviet Union and in Eastern Europe. 

Catalyst for Violence. Observers doubt that the situation would ease even if Yahya were to release Mujib and lift a ban on the Awami League. Where the Bengalis once were merely demanding greater autonomy, they now seem determined to fight for outright independence. 

In his speech last week, Yahya also announced that the National Assembly would be convened in December, immediately following by-elections in the East to fill the Assembly seats vacated by disqualified Awami Leaguers. With the main party banned from participation, however, the election is likely to provoke more violence. Already the Mukti Bahini have vowed to treat candidates as dalals ("collaborators"). 

Nonetheless, Yahya may find himself compelled to put his government at least partly in civilian hands. Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, leader of West Pakistan's majority Pakistan People's Party and Yahya's most probable choice for Prime Minister, has become more and more outspoken about "the rule of the generals." Recently he said: "The long night of terror must end. The people of Pakistan must take their destiny in their own hands." Formerly that sort of talk would have landed him in jail. Now even Yahya seems to have recognized that unless the military allows some sort of civilian rule it may face trouble in the West as well as in the ravaged East.

*The Hamood-ur-Rehman Commission Report | A Review*
Dec 2012
By M.A.
Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto had only been in power for one week, when he asked the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Justice Hamood-ur-Rehman, to investigate “the circumstances in which the Commander, Eastern command, surrendered”, “laid down their arms” and ordered “a ceasefire”.

Of the 12 copies submitted by Hamood-ur-Rehman, all but one was destroyed. Bhutto kept the final copy.

Ten years ago, _India Today_ got a hold of the _supplementary _report. The report was later declassified by the Pakistani government–after being kept under wraps for 30 years. It is this supplementary report that we have access to today. And though it leaves out some key aspects (like the Hamood-ur-Rehman Commission’s analysis of the international and local context within which 1971 took place), it is nevertheless a fascinating, and telling, read.

Its 68 (A4) pages read like a war thriller. Skip through the heavy parts, and you’ll run into stories about the “moral lapses” of the Pakistan Army, how the Mukti Bahini “butchered” “West Pakistani officers”, and the long list of “allegations” and “excesses committed by the Pakistani Army”–including “senseless wanton arson and killings”, “killings of intellectuals and professionals”, “deliberate killing of members of the Hindu minority” and “Raping of a large number of East Pakistani women (…) as a deliberate act of revenge, retaliation and torture”.

Tanqeed revisits the report, 41 years after Pakistani soldiers surrendered to the Indo-Bangladeshi High Command, and 10 years after the supplementary report as declassified.

Click here for the full report.
And here is our take on its top 5 most interesting parts.
*The Hamood-ur-Rehman Commission Report | A Review*
Dec 2012
By M.A.

*1. “Allegations”. Against the “excesses committed by the Pakistani Army”.*

The report lays out 7 major allegations against the Army–that can be grouped into 2 major categories.

One, the Army is accused of “Excessive use of force and fire power in Dacca during the night of the 25th and 26th of March 1971”; “Senseless and wanton arson and killings in the countryside” during “sweeping operations”; “Killing of intellectuals and professionals like doctors (and) engineers”–many of whom were buried in “mass graves”–as well as “civilian officers, businessmen and industrialists” and, of course, the “Hindu minority”.

And, two, the Army’s “officers and men” are accused of “Raping (…) a large number of East Pakistani women (…) as a deliberate act of revenge, retaliation and torture”.

Later on, the commission reports that Mujibur Rehman had proof of the Pakistan Army’s plan for “Painting the Green of East Pakistan Red”–though some say it might have been a communist slogan (!).

*2. The Numbers Game & Conclusions on the “Magnitude of Atrocities”.*

Our obsession with numbers continue to obfuscate the reality of those on the receiving end of violence–whether we are talking about drones and army actions in FATA, or the kill-and-dump policy in Balochistan. The sides try to play the numbers up, or down, in an endless attempt to discredit the other.

That was no less the case in the 1970s. The commission interviewed 213 people–including General Yahya, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Chief of Air Force, Chief of Navy, senior commanders and other political leaders. When it submitted its supplementary report, it interviewed another 73 bureaucrats and military officers.

There is no indication that any of the victims, or any Bengalis were interviewed.

We still do not know how many died, or how many were raped. And the report admits that higher or lower numbers does not “justify” the atrocities that _were _committed. But we still found the defence interesting. Read on:

“According to the Bangladesh authorities, the Pakistan Army was responsible for killing three million Bengalis and raping 200,000 East Pakistani women. It does not need any elaborate argument to see that these figures are obviously highly exaggerated. So much damage could not have been caused by the entire strength of the Pakistan Army then stationed in East Pakistan even if it had nothing else to do. In fact, however, the army was constantly engaged in fighting the Mukti Bahini, the Indian infiltrators, and later the Indian army. It also has the task of running the civil administration, maintaining communications and feeding 70 million people of East Pakistan. It is, there, clear that the figures mentioned by the Dacca authorities are altogether fantastic and fanciful”.

*3. How Yahya Khan Stoked the Fire–and the Trials that never happened.*

A range of recommendations, never implemented, call for trials against those found guilty, including “General Yahya Khan”–for “illegally usurp(ing) power from (…) Ayub Khan by the use of force” and incluencing “political parties by threats, inducements and even bribes to support their designs both for bringing about a particular kind of result during the elections of 1970, and later persuading some of the political parties and the elected members of the National Assembly to refuse to attend the session of the National Assembly scheduled to be held at Dacca on the 3rd of March, 1971. They, furthermore, in agreement with each othe rbrought about a situation in East Pakistan which led to civil disobedience movement, armed revolt by the Awami League and subsequently to the surrender of our troops in East Pakistan and the dismemberment of Pakistan.”

The report goes on to calling for a public trial for a range officers–including General Yahya–for bringing “disgrace and defeat to Pakistan by their subversion of the Constitution, usurpation of political power by criminal conspiracy, their professional incompetence, culpable negligence and willful neglect in the performance of their duties and physical and moral cowardice in abandoning the fight when they had the capability and resources to resist the enemy.” Those trials have still not happened.

*4. “The Moral Aspects”. On the Pakistan Army’s wine, women, lust… and corruption.*

In its introductory section, the commission reports on “the moral aspect of the causes of our defeat in the 1971 War”. You can read about the “corruption” of “highly placed and responsible Service Officers”. And learn about their “lust for wine and women and greed for lands and houses” and their “highly immoral and licentious ways of life”.

The highest placed officer and Commander of the Eastern Forces, Lieutenant A. A. K. Niazi, is accused of “making money in the handling of Martial Law cases” while posted in Sialkot and Lahore; of being on “intimate terms with one Mrs. Saeeda Bukhari of Gulberg, Lahore who was running a brothel under the name of Senorita Home, and (…) also acting as the General’s tout for receiving brines and getting things done; that he was also friendly with another woman called Shamini Firdaus of Sialkot who was said to be playing the same role as Mrs Saeeda Bukhari of Lahore; that during his stay in East Pakistan he came to acquire a stinking reputation owing to his association with women of bad repute, and his nocturnal visits to places also frequented by several junior officers under his command; and that he indulged in the smuggling of Pan from East Pakistan to West Pakistan.”

*5. “Misdeeds of the Awami League Militants”.*

And finally, read about the commissions accusations against the Mukti Bahini, under the “Misdeeds of the Awami League Militants”.

According to the report, “a large number of West Pakistani officers were butchered by the erstwhile Bengali colleagues”, and between “100,000 and 500,000 persons were slaughtered during this period” by the Mukti Bahini (though the commission seems much more critical of its sources when investigating Pakistani atrocities, than it seems to be when investigating Bengali atrocities–where it relies among other on a “renowned journalist of high-standing” instead of detailed investigations into the death toll).
http://www.tanqeed.org/2012/12/hamood-ur-rehman-report/


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## El Sidd

Baaghi ko taaj pehnane wali qaum sirf ruswayi apni taqdeer me likh sakti hai.

Sadi guzar jaegi per ye wese hi roenge jese kufi rote honge


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## Banglar Bir

Deidara said:


> Pakistani men loved Bengali women. Army officers and other well-to-do west pakistanis frequently took them as wives. I've met few of them as a child. Of course they are all older than 70 now and out of public life.


Likewise,we also loved and admired the beauty and nature of our Pakistani ladies, the first girl that I had a crush upon hailed from the NWFP, a teenage puppy love, unfortunately came 1971, threw a spanner in our life, I fled home, armed, to do my part of our patriotic duty, still recall her after 45 years whenever I cross her former residence, a nostalgic feeling churns within me.

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## Deidara

BANGLAR BIR said:


> Likewise,we also loved and admired the beauty and nature of our Pakistani ladies, the first girl that I had a crush upon hailed from the NWFP, a teenage puppy love, unfortunately came 1971, threw a spanner in our life, I fled home, armed, to do my part of our patriotic duty, still recall her after 45 years whenever I cross her former residence, a nostalgic feeling churns within me.


 are you that old ?


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## Banglar Bir

In my Mid teens during 1971, at that's the age a male youths are krazy for such kind of stupid adventurism.


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## Banglar Bir

*স্বাধীনতার মাসে দুই বাঘা বাঘের হুংকার-এই তারা বীর প্রতীক ও বীর বিক্রম*





Published on Mar 29, 2017
New Bangla Talk- show: স্বাধীনতার মাসে দুই বাঘা বাঘের হুংকার-এই তারা বীর প্রতীক ও বীর বিক্রম

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## padamchen

BANGLAR BIR said:


> In my Mid teens during 1971, at that's the age a male youths are krazy for such kind of stupid adventurism.



Why stupid sir?

Cheers, Doc


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## Banglar Bir

*Bangladesh war: The article that changed history*
By Mark DummettBBC News

16 December 2011






On 13 June 1971, an article in the UK's Sunday Times exposed the brutality of Pakistan's suppression of the Bangladeshi uprising. It forced the reporter's family into hiding and changed history.

_Abdul Bari had run out of luck. Like thousands of other people in East Bengal, he had made the mistake - the fatal mistake - of running within sight of a Pakistani patrol. He was 24 years old, a slight man surrounded by soldiers. He was trembling because he was about to be shot._

So starts one of the most influential pieces of South Asian journalism of the past half century.

Written by Anthony Mascarenhas, a Pakistani reporter, and printed in the UK's Sunday Times, it exposed for the first time the scale of the Pakistan army's brutal campaign to suppress its breakaway eastern province in 1971.

Nobody knows exactly how many people were killed, but certainly a huge number of people lost their lives. Independent researchers think that between 300,000 and 500,000 died. The Bangladesh government puts the figure at three million.

The strategy failed, and Bangladeshis are now celebrating the 40th anniversary of the birth of their country. Meanwhile, the first trial of those accused of committing war crimes has recently begun in Dhaka.

Foreign journalists had already been expelled, and Pakistan was also keen to publicise atrocities committed by the other side. Awami League supporters had massacred tens of thousands of civilians whose loyalty they suspected, a war crime that is still denied by many today in Bangladesh.

Eight journalists, including Mascarenhas, were given a 10-day tour of the province. When they returned home, seven of them duly wrote what they were told to.

But one of them refused.

Yvonne Mascarenhas remembers him coming back distraught: "I'd never seen my husband looking in such a state. He was absolutely shocked, stressed, upset and terribly emotional," she says, speaking from her home in west London.

"He told me that if he couldn't write the story of what he'd seen he'd never be able to write another word again."

Clearly it would not be possible to do so in Pakistan. All newspaper articles were checked by the military censor, and Mascarenhas told his wife he was certain he would be shot if he tried.

Pretending he was visiting his sick sister, Mascarenhas then travelled to London, where he headed straight to the Sunday Times and the editor's office.





Image captionIndians and Bengali guerrillas fought in support of East Pakistan
Evans remembers him in that meeting as having "the bearing of a military man, square-set and moustached, but appealing, almost soulful eyes and an air of profound melancholy".

"He'd been shocked by the Bengali outrages in March, but he maintained that what the army was doing was altogether worse and on a grander scale," Evans wrote.

Mascarenhas told him he had been an eyewitness to a huge, systematic killing spree, and had heard army officers describe the killings as a "final solution".

Evans promised to run the story, but first Yvonne and the children had to escape Karachi.

They had agreed that the signal for them to start preparing for this was a telegram from Mascarenhas saying that "Ann's operation was successful".

Yvonne remembers receiving the message at three the next morning. "I heard the telegram man bang at my window and I woke up my sons and I was: 'Oh my gosh, we have to go to London.' It was terrifying. I had to leave everything behind.

"We could only take one suitcase each. We were crying so much it was like a funeral," she says.

To avoid suspicion, Mascarenhas had to return to Pakistan before his family could leave. But as Pakistanis were only allowed one foreign flight a year, he then had to sneak out of the country by himself, crossing by land into Afghanistan.

The day after the family was reunited in their new home in London, the Sunday Times published his article, under the headline "Genocide".

*'Betrayal'*
It is such a powerful piece of reporting because Mascarenhas was clearly so well trusted by the Pakistani officers he spent time with.

_I have witnessed the brutality of 'kill and burn missions' as the army units, after clearing out the rebels, pursued the pogrom in the towns and villages._

_I have seen whole villages devastated by 'punitive action'._

_And in the officer's mess at night I have listened incredulously as otherwise brave and honourable men proudly chewed over the day's kill._

_'How many did you get?' The answers are seared in my memory._

This was one of the most significant articles written on the war
Mofidul Huq, Liberation War Museum

His article was - from Pakistan's point of view - a huge betrayal and he was accused of being an enemy agent. It still denies its forces were behind such atrocities as those described by Mascarenhas, and blames Indian propaganda.

However, he still maintained excellent contacts there, and in 1979 became the first journalist to reveal that Pakistan had developed nuclear weapons.

In Bangladesh, of course, he is remembered more fondly, and his article is still displayed in the country's Liberation War Museum.

"This was one of the most significant articles written on the war. It came out when our country was cut off, and helped inform the world of what was going on here," says Mofidul Huq, a trustee of the museum.

His family, meanwhile, settled into life in a new and colder country.

"People were so serious in London and nobody ever talked to us," Yvonne Mascarenhas remembers. "We were used to happy, smiley faces, it was all a bit of a change for us after Karachi. But we never regretted it."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-16207201

*When BBC error helped India in 1971 war*
PRASUN SONWALKAR/ HINDUSTAN TIMES• JUL 27, 2016 

LONDON: Major Gen (retired) Ian Cardozo, a hero of the 1971 war that led to the creation of Bangladesh, paid tribute to BBC’s coverage of the hostilities on Monday but recalled its one mistake that benefited India in taking on numerically superior Pakistani forces.

At the time, Cardozo was a major in a 5 Gorkha Rifles battalion, comprising about 750 soldiers, that was tasked with capturing Atgram near Sylhet. 

It was short of artillery and food supplies, but ultimately managed the surrender of two Pakistan Army brigades, including three brigadiers, a colonel, 107 officers, 219 JCOs and 7,000 troops in one of the most incredible successes of the war.

Speaking at a book release event here, he said: “Today I would like to use this platform to pay tributes to the BBC. They were the only reliable broadcasting station at that time, giving news as it happened. The Indian Army had nothing to hide, so the British war correspondents were going along with our troops. 

“They were reporting minute-to-minute the progress of the battle. *But they made a mistake. They announced that a ‘brigade’ of Gurkhas had landed at Sylhet. We heard it, as well as the Pakistanis. So we decided to pretend that we were a brigade.”*

Taking advantage of the misinformation, Cardozo’s battalion built on small victories and created a situation where the Pakistani troops offered to surrender on December 15, 1971. Until it happened, Cardozo and others believed a Pakistani brigade was in the area, but they were surprised to discover the final number was more than twice the strength of a brigade.

One of the most decorated officers of the Indian Army, Cardozo recalled the vital operation to capture Sylhet during a packed invitation-only event to celebrate the life of Lt Gen FN Bilimoria, former head of the central command and father of Karan Bilimoria, a member of the House of Lords. 

Cardozo, a contemporary of Lt Gen Bilimoria, penned the book ”Lieutenant General Bilimoria: His Life and Times”, which was recently presented to Indian Army chief Gen Dalbir Singh in New Delhi.

The book release event here was attended by leading lights of the British Army, including former chief of general staff, Field Marshal John Chapple, and several Bangladesh citizens, who became emotional on meeting the man who played a defining role in their country’s formation. 

One Bangladeshi member of the audience thanked Cardozo for the "great job you have done for us". Cardozo is expected to receive an enthusiastic reception at the Bangladesh high commission here on Tuesday.

Answering questions, Cardozo said calmly but firmly: “I do not like to use this platform to denigrate Pakistan. I think everybody knows what they are up to, what they have been up to and what they continue to do. I don’t have to elaborate.

“But India believes in peace, people, progress, development, not in war. But if war is forced upon us, as it was in 1965, in 1971 and in Kargil, we were the victors in every war,” he added to much applause.

Retired British Army officers recalled their interaction with Lt Gen Bilimoria, who was the Indian Army’s liaison officer in the School of Infantry in Warminster in the 1970s. A popular soldier, he saw action in the 1971 war and held several key posts, including GOC of the central command. Karan Bilimoria recalled the values passed on to him by his father, who died at the age of 72 in 2005.

Cardozo's remarkable military career saw him losing a leg when he stepped on a landmine in the 1971 war. He cut off his mangled leg with his own khukri and told his Gurkha batman: "Now go and bury it." 

Determined not to let the disability affect his career as a soldier, he later became the first disabled officer in the Indian Army to command an infantry brigade. He has penned books on war heroes and the sinking of INS Khukri in the 1971 war.

https://kashmirobserver.net/2016/world-news/when-bbc-error-helped-india-1971-war-8883

*BDforever*
*ELITE MEMBER*





listen to this (with subtitles).
It is recognized as one of greatest speech in 20th century.


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## Banglar Bir

*NB London
Review of the book - Battle of Sylhet.*

The book “Battle of Sylhet” written by me is the collection of few reflections of valiant fighters of both Allied Forces (Mitro Bahini composed of Mukti Bahini and Indian Army) and Pakistan Army during the glorious Liberation War of Bangladesh. The book is based mostly on oral narration of the fighters who actively took part in the war. Here, I have incorporated the narration of Mukti Bahini member and the warriors of both Indian Army and Pakistan Army.

While writing some of the pertaining figure also came in my book as Battle of Sylhet was not an isolated one but an overall part of the Liberation war of Bangladesh. This will be an interesting read for those who are keen to know about the history and the glorious contribution made by civilians and soldiers to liberate Bangladesh. We would remain grateful to those who sacrificed their lives and suffered injury for the cause of the birth of a nation called Bangladesh.

The book would reflect on Lt Gen Faridoon Bilimoria who was stationed at Bogra during the time of war and fought the war as commanding officer. Lt Gen Bilimoria (endearingly called Billy by his friends) joined in 1949 the 2nd Course in the Joint Services Wing- a forerunner of the National Defence Academy in Dehra Dun and to the Indian Military Academy. He was not even 20 when he was commissioned into the 2nd Battalion of the 5th Gorkha Rifles. This battalion “Second Five” was also known as “VC Battalion” as three of its soldiers had own Victoria Cross during WWII, the highest gallantry award in the then British Empire. Billy joined the “Second Five” when two of the proud recipients were in this unit and eventually both the VC winners became Milly’s mentors; Billy was a great learner and these two helped him further hone all the skills needed in commanding troops. He truly epitomized the Chet ode Credo, “The safety, Honour and Welfare…. Always and Every time”. He died at age 72 on 31 August 2005.

Bilimoria left behind his wife Yasmin and two sons Karan and Nadir. Karan is a successful entrepreneur, the youngest and the first Parsi to enter the portals of the House of Lords and Nadir is in publishing business. Yasmin Bilimoria lives in Dehra Dun’s upscale Vasant Vihar with her younger son Nadir.
The book also reflects on Maj Gen Ian Cardozo who as a young Maj was wounded in the battle of Sylhet. He lost his leg in a landmine blast, but conquered his disability and went became the first disabled officer in the Indian Army to command an infantry battalion and then a brigade. Due to his courage and commitment his fellow soldiers addressed him as “carto’s sahib (in Hindi, ‘cartridge’). During the war he stepped on a landmine and had to cut off his badly wounded leg with his own khurki (knife). Later on, he was operated by a Pakistani surgeon, Maj Mohamed Basheer.

Glimpses of the Battle of Atgram and Battle of Sylhet are also highlighted in this book.
The Battle of Atgram , fought on 21 November 1971 between 5 Gorkha Rifles of the Indian Army and 31st Punjab Regiment of the Pakistan Army, was one of the first large-scale military engagement preceding the formal initiation of hostilities in the Indo-Pak War of 1971.

The Battle of Sylhet was a major battle fought between the advancing Allied forces and the Pakistani defences at Sylhet during the Liberation War of Bangladesh. The battle took place from 7 December to 15 December 1971 and witnessed first ever heliborne operation by Indian Army.

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## Banglar Bir

Syed Muhammad Ibrahim




*ইন্না লিল্লাহে ওয়া ইন্না ইলাইহে রাজেউন। 
সহযোদ্ধা , সেনা-সহপাঠী-র চির বিদায়। 
হৃদয় ভারাক্রান্ত । শোকাহত । 
হানাদার বাহিনীর ত্রাস
নয় নম্বর সেক্টর -- সুন্দরবন সাবসেক্টর কমান্ডার। 
PMA Kakul 24 War Course 1970 , 
মেজর জিয়া উদ্দিন । Major Ziauddin
ইন্তিকাল করেছেন, আজ ২৮-৭-১৭ সকালে ---- সিংগাপুর-এ চিকিৎসারত অবস্থায়।*




Hafiz Uddin Ahmad Inna Lillahe...........He was a FF who always maintained close touch with common people. Our Lib War transformed quite a few young mil officers into Revolutionaries, Ziauddin was one of them. He was a Marxist and put in sincere efforts to achieve emancipation of down trodden people through armed struggle (rightly or wrongly ! ). His party JSD failed to live up to peoples' expectations due to many practical shortcomings. In the newly Independent country, Time and Space were not in favor of Ziauddins.Yet he may find solace in poet's legendary expression আকাশের বুকে রাখিনাই মোর উড়িবার ইতিহাস ,উড়েছিনু এইটুকু উল্লাস। May Allah grant this brave son of the soil Jannatul Ferdous.


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## Banglar Bir

*Part # 1
(Copied)
Indian Blue Print and the Mujib Nagar Government*
*ভারতীয়* *নীল* *নকশা* *এবং* *মুজিব* *নগর* *সরকার*

আওয়ামী লীগের অভ্যন্তরীন taking full advantage of the internal divisions and struggle for power within the Awami League ক্ষমতার লড়াই এর পূর্ণ সুযোগ গ্রহণ করে ভারতীয় সরকার এবং গোয়েন্দা সংস্থা ‘র’- Indian Intelligence Agency-RAW implemented the “Divide and Rule policy” ‘ডিভাইড এন্ড রুল’ নীতি প্রয়োগ করে প্রধানমন্ত্রী between the Prime Minister and the Commander in Chief of Bangladesh Armed Forces, lowering the dignity of both এবং সর্বাধিনায়ক দু’জনকেই হেয় করে তোলা হয়।
Suddenly, Mr. Tajuddin was made theতাজুদ্দিনের হঠাৎ করে Prime Minister of the Exiled Government প্রবাসী সরকার গঠন করে প্রধানমন্ত্রী হওয়াটা আওয়ামী লীগের অনেকেই পছন্দ করেনি। তাদের মধ্যে ছিলেন যুব ও ছাত্রনেতাদের অনেকেই। অনেক সাংসদ এবং আওয়ামী লীগের নেতারাও এর প্রত্যক্ষ এবং পরোক্ষ বিরোধিতা করেছিলেন।
Many Awami Leagues did not like the creation of the expatriate government and Tajuddin being made as the Prime Minister. Many of them were young and student leaders including MP's and Awami League leaders also opposed these both, directly and indirectly.

Sheikh Fazlul Haque Moni, Sirajul Alam Khan, Shahjahan Siraj, Nure Alam Siddiqui and Abdul Kuddus Makhan, among others, opposed the move by Tajuddin. Mr. Abdur Rab Serniabat, Sheikh Abdul Aziz, Mansur Ali, Mr. Nazrul Islam and others were instrumental in helping them indirectly.

Regarding, accepting Mr Tajuddin's as the Prime Minister General Arora remarked, "The youths of the Awami League didn't like him." (General Arora's interview given to Nikhil Chakrabarty under the titled “Bangladesh's War Memorial”.)

In general, many young citizens thought that that Sheikh Mujib was not alive. In the absence of Mujibur Rahman, Mr.Tajuddin would not follow Mujib’s influence. If Sheikh Mujib was present, then all the youth and student leaders would have been able to establish their authority in the freedom struggle very easily. However, Tajuddin was viewing their contributions in an indifferent way and was replying to them with on a different tone.
শেখ ফজলুল হক মনি, সিরাজুল আলম খান, শাহ্‌জাহান সিরাজ, নুরে আলম সিদ্দিকী এবং আব্দুল কুদ্দুস মাখন প্রমুখ যুব ও ছাত্রনেতারা সবাই প্রকাশ্যে তাজুদ্দিনের এ পদক্ষেপের বিরোধিতা করেন। তাদের পরোক্ষভাবে মদদ যোগাচ্ছিলেন জনাব আব্দুর রব সেরনিয়াবাত, শেখ আবদুল আজিজ, মনসুর আলী, জনাব নজরুল ইসলাম প্রমুখ।
জনাব তাজুদ্দিনের প্রধানমন্ত্রীত্বের গ্রহণযোগ্যতা সম্পর্কে জেনারেল অরোরার মন্তব্য, “আওয়ামী লীগের যুবনেতারা তাকে পছন্দ করত না।” (বাংলাদেশের যুদ্ধের স্মৃতিচারন শিরোনামে নিখিল চক্রবর্ত্তীকে দেয়া জেনারেল অরোরার সাক্ষাৎকার।)

সাধারণভাবে যুবনেতাদের অনেকেই সেদিন ভেবেছিলেন শেখ মুজিব আর জীবিত নেই। মুজিবর রহমানের অবর্তমানে তাজুদ্দিন তাদের প্রভাবকে তেমন একটা মেনে চলবেন না। শেখ মুজিব কাছে থাকলে এ সমস্ত যুব এবং ছাত্রনেতারা স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামে তাদের কর্তৃত্ব অতি সহজেই স্থাপন করতে সক্ষম হতেন। কিন্তু তাজুদ্দিন তাদের সাথে অন্য সুরে কথা বলছেন।

তাদের হাতে ক্রিয়াণক হয়ে সংগ্রামের সব নেতৃত্ব তাদের হাতে ছেড়ে দিতে তিনি অস্বীকৃতি জানাচ্ছেন। তাদের সংগ্রামী ভূমিকাকেও ছোট করে দেখছেন জনাব তাজুদ্দিন।

The P.M. was completely ignoring the opinion of the youths and student leaders in leading the Government. Tajuddin's cremation would not be the end, also due to Tajuddin being the Head of Government; their facilities were also being discontinued.

Tajuddin ignored the relatives of Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, without giving them proper status as his relatives. Ignoring them was indirectly ignoring Sheikh Mujibur Rahman.

Therefore, at any cost Tajuddin must be removed as the Prime Minister, and pave the path to the youthsto retain power. According to this plan, some youths and student leaders led by Sheikh Moni and Sirajul Alam Khan met with Indian Prime Minister Mrs. Indira Gandhi and told her that she was the only trusted friend of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman.

তাজুদ্দিন সরকার পরিচালনায় যুব ও ছাত্রনেতাদের মতামত তিনি সম্পূর্ণ উপেক্ষা করে চলেছেন। তাজুদ্দিনের ধৃষ্টতার শেষ নেই। তিনি সরকার প্রধান থাকার কারণে তাদের সুযোগ-সুবিধাও বন্ধ হয়ে যাচ্ছে। তিনি বঙ্গবন্ধু শেখ মুজিবর রহমানের আত্মীয়-স্বজনকেও যথাযথ মর্যাদা দান না করে তাদের উপেক্ষা করেছেন। তাদের উপেক্ষা করা, পরোক্ষভাবে শেখ মুজিবকেই উপেক্ষা করার সমতুল্য।

Mr. Tajuddin hands were been behind the arrest of Sheikh Mujib in the hands of the Pakistan army. Before his arrest, Sheikh Mujib ordered his followers to wage out the struggle for independence with the help of the Indian government.

Most of the Awami League and the provincial MPs who came from Bangladesh also had not supported Mr. Tajuddin. In this situation, Tajuddin had no right to remain as the Prime Minister. In support of their statement, they handed over a letter to Md. Abdur Rab, the brother-in-law of Mujibur Rahman, addressed to Ms. Indira Gandhi and the letter was presented by Sheikh Kamal, the eldest son of Sheikh Mujib.

They also informed Mrs. Gandhi that if Tajuddin continued as the Prime Minister of an independent Bangladesh, India's interests will be affected as Mr. Tajuddin would not implement Sheikh Mujib's ideology.

In this context, for the interest of the both the parties, they requested Mrs. Gandhi to arrange training for Mujib devotees from Bangladesh and their loyal youth under their leadership. They said that only by developing this kind of power could it be possible to maintain a meaningful relationship between Bangladesh and India, even after Independence. Otherwise, the Awami League government would soon become a victim of the intrigues of anti Indian’s elements from within itself.

Most of the Awami League and the provincial MPs who came from Bangladesh also had not supported Mr. Tajuddin. In this situation, Tajuddin had no right to remain as the Prime Minister. In support of their statement, they handed over a letter to Md. Abdur Rab, the brother-in-law of Mujibur Rahman, addressed to Ms. Indira Gandhi and the letter was presented by Sheikh Kamal, the eldest son of Sheikh Mujib.

They also informed Mrs. Gandhi that if Tajuddin continued as the Prime Minister of an independent Bangladesh, India's interests will be affected as Mr. Tajuddin would not implement Sheikh Mujib's ideology.
অতএব, যে কোন মূল্যে তাজুদ্দিনকে প্রধানমন্ত্রীত্ব থেকে অপসারন করতে হবে। মেতে উঠলেন তারা এক ক্ষমতা লাভের চকক্রান্তে। পরিকল্পনা অনুযায়ী শেখ মনি ও সিরাজুল আলম খানের নেতৃত্বে কয়েকজন যুব ও ছাত্রনেতা দিল্লী গিয়ে ভারতের প্রধানমন্ত্রী শ্রীমতী ইন্দিরা গান্ধীর সঙ্গে দেখা করে তাকে জানান যে তারা শেখ মুজিবর রহমানের অত্যন্ত বিশ্বাসভাজন।

পাক বাহিনীর হাতে শেখ মুজিবের গ্রেফতারের পেছনে জনাব তাজুদ্দিনের হাত রয়েছে। গ্রেফতারের আগে শেখ মুজিব তাদের সে কথা জানিয়ে তাদেরকে ভারত সরকারের সহায়তায় স্বাধীনতার সংগ্রাম পরিচালনা করার নির্দেশ দিয়ে যান।

জনাব তাজুদ্দিনের উপর বাংলাদেশ থেকে আগত বেশিরভাগ আওয়ামী লীগ জাতীয় এবং প্রাদেশিক সাংসদদের সমর্থনও নেই। এ অবস্থায় প্রধানমন্ত্রীত্ব করার কোন অধিকার নেই তাজুদ্দিন সাহেবের। তাদের বক্তব্যের সমর্থনে তারা মুজিবর রহমানের ভগ্নিপতি জনাব আব্দুর রব সেরনিয়াবাতের একটি চিঠি শ্রীমতি ইন্দিরা গান্ধীকে প্রদান করেন এবং শেখ মুজিবের জেষ্ঠ পুত্র শেখ কামালকে তার সম্মুখে উপস্থিত করেন।

তারা শ্রীমতি গান্ধীকে এ কথা বলেও হু্ঁশিয়ার করে দেন যে তাজুদ্দিন যদি স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশের প্রধানমন্ত্রী থাকেন তবে ভারতের স্বার্থও ক্ষতিগ্রস্থ হবে। কারণ জনাব তাজুদ্দিন শেখ মুজিবের নীতি আদর্শ কিছুতেই বাস্তবায়িত করবেন না।

এই পরিপ্রেক্ষিতে দু’পক্ষের স্বার্থে তাদের নেতৃত্বে বাংলাদেশ থেকে আগত মুজিব ভক্ত এবং তাদের অনুগত তরুণদের প্রশিক্ষনের ব্যবস্থা করার জন্য তারা শ্রীমতি গান্ধীর কাছে আবেদন জানান। তারা বলেন, শুধুমাত্র এ ধরণের শক্তি গড়ে তোলার মাধ্যমেই স্বাধীনতা উত্তর বাংলাদেশ এবং বন্ধুরাষ্ট্র ভারতের মধ্যে অর্থবহ সম্পর্ক বজিয়ে রাখা সম্ভব। তা না হলে অচিরেই ভারত বিদ্বেষীদের চক্রান্তের শিকারে পরিণত হবে আওয়ামী লীগ সরকার।

তাদের এ অনুরোধ সাগ্রহে গ্রহণ করেন শ্রীমতি গান্ধী। সুদূর প্রসারী নীল নকশার কথা চিন্তা করেই Divide and Rule নীতির প্রয়োগের জন্য BLF বিএলএফ পরবর্তিতে নাম বদলিয়ে মুজিব বাহিনীর সৃষ্টি করে সেকেন্ড ফ্রন্ট খোলার সিদ্ধান্ত নেয়া হয়। এভাবেই সৃষ্টি করা হয়েছিল বিএলএফ ওরফে মুজিব বাহিনী 
Mrs. Gandhi took this request into high consideration, anticipating the far-reaching implications of the Indian blue print, thus, the BLF or Mujib Bahani was created, exclusively for the use of the “Divide and Rule” policy and the decision to open a second front was incorporated by creating the Mujib force. These were the factors behind raising the BLF, commonly known as “Mujib Bahini”.

When this decision was informed to theC in C, Mr. Osmani, in turn informed Mr. Tajuddin, the Prime Minister, Mr. Tajuddin, raised these issues with the Indian government in New Delhi and demanded to redress these issues. However, Mr. Haksar, Mr. D.P Dhar along with Ramnath Rao and General Oban of RAW and General Wan Singh kept silent and avoided Mr. Tajuddin.

Col. Osmani was informed about these new developments, and stated what Mr. Tajuddin said. later everyone concerned came to know the narration from Col. Osmani. In the next phase, Colonel Osmani tried his level best to bring Mujib Bahini under the control of Forces Headquarters of the expatriate Bangladesh government. However, all his efforts were futile. Colonel Osmani was forced to accept the Indian decision to create the BLF or Mujib Bahini.

এ তথ্যগুলোও জনাব ওসমানীকে জান, তিনি সেগুলো জনাব তাজুদ্দিনকে জানান। প্রধানমন্ত্রী জনাব তাজুদ্দিন নাকি এ সমস্ত প্রশ্ন নিয়ে দিল্লীতে ভারত সরকারের সঙ্গে আলোচনা করেন এবং এর প্রতিবিধানের দাবি জানান। কিন্তু জনাব হাকসার, ডিপিধর, ‘র’ Ramnath Rao and General Oban of RAWএর রমানাথ রাও এবং জেনারেল ওবান সিং এ ব্যাপারে তাজুদ্দিনকে এড়িয়ে গিয়ে নিরব থাকেন।
ফিরে এসে কর্নেল ওসমানীকে সে কথাই বলেছিলেন জনাব তাজুদ্দিন। পরে কর্নেল ওসমানীর কাছ থেকে তার ব্যাখ্যা জানতে পারি। পরবর্তী পর্যায়ে মুজিব বাহিনীকে প্রবাসী বাংলাদেশ সরকারের ফোর্সেস হেডকোয়টার্স এর নিয়ন্ত্রণে আনার আপ্রাণ চেষ্টা করেছিলেন কর্নেল ওসমানী। কিন্তু তার কোন চেষ্টাই ফলপ্রসু হয়নি। নিতান্ত অপারগ হয়েই কর্নেল ওসমানীকে বিএলএফ তথা মুজিব বাহিনী সৃষ্টি করার ভারতীয় সিদ্ধান্ত মেনে নিতে হয়।

With the assistance of the Indian intelligence, F.F, Captain Jalil became aware of the secret contacts, which the Indians were maintaining with the other officers of the Eastern Command, located at Fort William.
The Indian government not only controlled the exile government along with the Liberation Army's headquarters but also regulated the freedom struggle and the political progress of Bangladesh; moreover, they were also trying to develop relations with powerful commanders.

Brilliantly, they crafted an incompatible tussle between Tajuddin's and the expatriate government and kept him under severe pressure, thus, forcing him to remain under the Indian control.
On the other hand, in the same manner the C in C of the Mujibnagar government and freedom fighter, Mr. Osmani, was also restricted to exercise his authority. Colonel Osmani was extremely humiliated for these reasons thus, Colonel Osmani was also side tracked. However, his position was firm and clear.

ভারতীয় গোয়েন্দা বাহিনীর সহায়তায় ক্যাপ্টেন জলিলের ফোর্ট উইলিয়ামের পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় হেডকোয়াটার্সের কর্মকর্তাদের সাথে গোপন যোগাযোগ থেকে একটি বিষয় পরিষ্কার হয়ে উঠল।
ভারতীয় সরকার শুধুমাত্র প্রবাসী সরকার এবং মুক্তি বাহিনীর সদর দপ্তরের মাধ্যমেই বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রাম এবং রাজনৈতিক গতিধারাকে নিয়ন্ত্রণ করছিল তা নয়, তারা ক্ষমতাধর কমান্ডারদের সাথেও সম্পর্ক গড়ে তোলার চেষ্টা করছিল।

অত্যন্ত চতুরতার সাথে তারা তাজুদ্দিনের প্রবাসী সরকারের মধ্যে অর্ন্তদ্বন্দ্ব সৃষ্টি করে তাকেও দুর্বল করে চাপের মুখে রাখছিল যাতে তিনি তাদের নিয়ন্ত্রণের মধ্যে থাকতে বাধ্য হন।
অপরদিকে মুজিবনগর সরকার ও মুক্তিযোদ্ধের সর্বাধিনায়ক জনাব ওসমানীর মধ্যেও দ্বন্দ্ব সৃষ্টি করে কর্নেল ওসমানীর ক্ষমতা সীমিত করে রাখা হচিছল একইভাবে। কর্নেল ওসমানীকে সাইড ট্র্যাক করে প্রবাসী সরকার ও ভারতীয় কর্তৃপক্ষের এ ধরণের কার্যকলাপে কর্নেল ওসমানী অতি যুক্তিসঙ্গত কারণেই ভীষণভাবে অপমানিত বোধ করছিলেন। তার বক্তব্য ছিল পরিষ্কার।
The Bengali nation was grateful for the fact that India had agreed to assist us in humanitarian causes according to their statement regarding Bangladesh's independence struggle, just as a good friend.
The glorious liberation struggle was the struggle of the eight crore Bengalis of East Bengal in their own freedom struggle.The FF’S had to organize their struggle in exchange for any kind of sacrifices; the FF’S also had to achieve their national independence, directly under the leadership and responsibilities under the command of the Liberation Army and the exiled Bangladesh government.

Mr. Osmani never compromised on these basic policy issues. There were a lot of debate with the leadership of the then exiled government on these matters. Anyways, most of the leaders of the Awami League and the Constituent Assembly did not support this policy.

While they were busy preparing their own inner power circles.The most bizarre thoughts that were working in almost all of the exiled AL Leaders. Not only were the political leaders but many bureaucrats and opportunist leadership of the freedom struggle was also reflective of the same thoughts. They believed that the as the liberation war has started, these high ups were struggling to protect, the millions of crores of rupees and wealth they had looted from almost all parts of East Pakistan, before fleeing, and stored those wealth in India, as a safe harbor.

ভারত বন্ধুরাষ্ট্র হিসাবে বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামে তাদের বক্তব্য অনুযায়ী মানবিক কারণে সাহায্য দিতে সম্মত হয়েছে সেটার জন্য বাঙ্গালী জাতি কৃতজ্ঞ।
কিন্তু স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামটা পূর্ব বাংলার ৮ কোটি বাঙ্গালীর নিজস্ব সংগ্রাম। এ সংগ্রাম তাদেরই সংগঠিত করতে হবে। যে কোন ত্যাগের বিনিময়ে তাদেরকেই অর্জন করতে হবে জাতীয় স্বাধীনতা, সংগ্রামের নেতৃত্ব ও সব দায়িত্বও থাকতে হবে মুক্তিফৌজ কমান্ড ও প্রবাসী বাংলাদেশ সরকারের অধিনে।
জনাব ওসমানী নীতির এ প্রশ্নে কখনোই আপোষ করেননি। এ বিষয় নিয়ে তৎকালীন প্রবাসী সরকারের নেতৃত্বের সাথে অনেক বির্তক হয়েছে তার। কিন্তু তার এ নীতির প্রতি সমর্থন দেননি আওয়ামী লীগের বেশিরভাগ নেতৃত্ব ও গণপরিষদ সদস্যরা।

তারা তখন নিজ নিজ ক্ষমতার বলয় তৈরি করতে ব্যস্ত। তাদের প্রায় সবার মাঝেই এক ধরণের উদ্ভট চিন্তা কাজ করছিল। শুধু রাজনৈতিক নেতৃবৃন্দই নয় অনেক আমলা এমনকি মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের সুবিধাবাদী নেতৃত্বের মাঝেও সেই একই চিন্তার প্রতিফলন দেখা যাচ্ছিল। তাদের ধারণা ছিল মুক্তিযুদ্ধ যে কারণেই হোক শুরু হয়ে গেছে। প্রতিরোধ সংগ্রামকালে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের প্রায় সব অঞ্চল থেকে কোটি কোটি টাকা ও সম্পদ লুন্ঠন করে নিয়ে হিজরত করে চলে আসা হয়েছে নিরাপদ আশ্রয় ভারতে।
*Even though, as a Freedom Fighter this was a shameful act to state that, many intellectuals and High ups, those who all had escaped from East Pakistan, also viewed the heroic liberation struggle of the freedom fighters in a negative light. They believed that the Bengali freedom fighters would never be able to liberate their country by defeating the Pakistani force*.

*They believed that, in order to defeat the Pakistan army, it was necessary that the Indian armed forces must get involved directly. Many of these leaders did not have the will or the ability to participate in a bloody lasting struggle. They were also unwilling to risk a lengthy fight and to not ready to suffer immense sacrifices*. বলতে লজ্জা লাগলেও বলতে হচ্ছে পূর্ব পাকিস্তান থেকে পালিয়ে আসা অনেক বুদ্ধিজীবি ও হোমরা-চোমরা পদস্থ ব্যক্তিরাও মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের বীরত্বপূর্ণ মুক্তি সংগ্রামকে দেখতেন অত্যন্ত নেতিবাচক দৃষ্টিতে। তারা মনে করতেন বাঙ্গালী মুক্তিযোদ্ধারা কখনই পাকিস্তান হানাদার বাহিনীকে পরাস্ত করে দেশ স্বাধীন করতে সক্ষম হবে না।

*Soon after ending their Indian ‘Hajj’, they would be exempted from their exiled life and would be redeemed and enjoy a real luxurious life with the looted black wealth/money, which would start very soon, through the direct intervention of the Indian forces, alone.*

*Once they had been able to endorse the stamps as “Indian Hajis”, they would be soon be able to return to their country, where was the barrier for them to from establishing their own rule? Therefore, the country must be liberated, as soon as possible. Accordingly, a section of these high ups had started immense lobbying with the various organs of the Indian government.*

*In the entire exiled governments, only two leaders firmly opposed these initiatives from the beginning. One of them was Colonel Osmani and the second person was Mr. Khandokar Mushtaq Ahmad. Apart from these two, most of the senior Political Leaders along with many of the bureaucrats' high profile citizens favoring Bangladesh's Independence, through the direct intervention of the Indian Army. Thereby, through a “Cesarean operation” subsequently, the premature birth of Bangladesh occurred*.

*However, most of the freedom fighters, and young officers from the bureaucracy and were against this idea of liberation, in this context, the youth's ideological conflict with those elders was increasing many folds, which was not to serve the interest of other Nation , nor at their mercy. *

In order to defeat the Pakistan army, these top leaders felt that, it was necessary that the Indian Army Forces must directly be involved, as many of them did not have the will or ability to participate in a bloody lasting struggle. They were also unwilling to risk the war and to suffer and sacrifices.
Soon after their ' Indian Hajj' ended, these elderly leaders would be exempted for their exiled lives and would be redeemed and could lead a luxurious life style with the stolen black money.These goals could be achieved within a shortest period, through the direct intervention of the Indian forces, alone.

Once they had received the Hajj stamps from India, once they return to their country, there would be no the barrier’s from establishing their rules? Immediately these elements, for the country to be liberated, a section of them started lobbying heavily from various parts of the Indian government.
পাকিস্তান বাহিনীকে পরাজিত করতে সরাসরি ভারতীয় সেনা বাহিনীর হস-ক্ষেপ অবশ্যই অতি প্রয়োজনীয়। রক্তক্ষয়ী দীর্ঘস্থায়ী সংগ্রামে অংশগ্রহণ করার ইচ্ছা অথবা যোগ্যতা তাদের অনেকেরই ছিল না। যুদ্ধের ঝুঁকি এবং কষ্ট ও ত্যাগ স্বীকার করতেও তারা ছিলেন নারাজ।
এতে করেই তাড়াতাড়ি 'হজ্জ্ব' শেষ করে প্রবাসী জীবনের কষ্ট থেকে রেহাই পেয়ে দেশে ফিরে লুটপাটের কালো টাকার আয়েশী জীবন খুব তাড়াতাড়ি আবার শুরু করতে পারা যাবে একমাত্র ভারতীয় বাহিনীর প্রত্যক্ষ হস্তক্ষেপের মাধ্যমেই।

ভারতে হজ্জ্ব করার স্ট্যাম্প যখন একবার নিতে সক্ষম হয়েছেন তারা তখন দেশে ফেরার পর তাদের রাজ কায়েম করার পথে বাধা কোথায়? তাই যত তাড়াতাড়ি সম্ভব দেশটাকে স্বাধীন করে দেবার জন্য তাদের একাংশ গোড়া থেকেই ভারত সরকারের বিভিন্ন মহলে জোর লবিং শুরু করে দিয়েছিলেন।

সমস্ত প্রবাসী সরকারের মধ্যে শুধুমাত্র দু’জন শুরু থেকে শেষ পর্যন্ত এ ধরণের উদ্যোগের বিরোধিতা দৃঢ়তার সাথে করে গিয়েছিলেন। তাদের একজন হলেন কর্নেল ওসমানী এবং দ্বিতীয় ব্যক্তি হলেন জনাব খন্দোকার মোশতাক আহমদ। এই দুইজন ছাড়া সিনিয়র রাজনৈতিক নেতৃত্বের প্রায় সবাই এবং আমলাদের উচ্চপদস্থ প্রভাবশালী ব্যক্তিদের অনেকেই ভারতের প্রত্যক্ষ হস্তক্ষেপের মাধ্যমে বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা লাভের পক্ষপাতিত্ত্ব করছিলেন। পরবর্তিকালে সিজরিয়ন অপারেশন এর মাধ্যমে বাংলাদেশের Premature birth এর জন্য মূলতঃ এরাও দায়ী ছিলেন অনেকাংশে। কিন্তু বেশিরভাগ মুক্তিযোদ্ধা, আমলাতন্ত্রের তরুণ সদস্যরা এভাবে অপরের কৃপায় বাংলাদেশকে স্বাধীন করার উদ্যোগের ঘোর বিরোধী ছিলেন। এ নিয়ে প্রবীণদের সাথে তরুণদের দ্বন্দ্ব ক্রমশঃই বেড়ে উঠছিল প্রতিদিন।
Among all exiled governments officials, only two opposed these plans firmly with the beginning. One of them was Colonel Osmani and the second person was Mr. Khandokar Mushtaq Ahmad.
Apart from these two, most of the Senior Political Leaders including many bureaucrats' and high-profile influential figures were favoring Bangladesh's independence through the direct intervention of India. Subsequently, through a Cesarean Operation, significantly contributed for the premature birth of Bangladesh. However, most of the freedom fighters, young officers of the bureaucracy were t against the plan of liberating Bangladesh for serving the interest of others Nations. Thus, the youth FF's conflict with their seniors was increasing manifolds with every passing day.



padamchen said:


> Why stupid sir?
> Cheers, Doc


Kindly read the above facts.


----------



## padamchen

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Part # 1
> (Copied)
> Indian Blue Print and the Mujib Nagar Government*
> *ভারতীয়* *নীল* *নকশা* *এবং* *মুজিব* *নগর* *সরকার*
> 
> আওয়ামী লীগের অভ্যন্তরীন taking full advantage of the internal divisions and struggle for power within the Awami League ক্ষমতার লড়াই এর পূর্ণ সুযোগ গ্রহণ করে ভারতীয় সরকার এবং গোয়েন্দা সংস্থা ‘র’- Indian Intelligence Agency-RAW implemented the “Divide and Rule policy” ‘ডিভাইড এন্ড রুল’ নীতি প্রয়োগ করে প্রধানমন্ত্রী between the Prime Minister and the Commander in Chief of Bangladesh Armed Forces, lowering the dignity of both এবং সর্বাধিনায়ক দু’জনকেই হেয় করে তোলা হয়।
> Suddenly, Mr. Tajuddin was made theতাজুদ্দিনের হঠাৎ করে Prime Minister of the Exiled Government প্রবাসী সরকার গঠন করে প্রধানমন্ত্রী হওয়াটা আওয়ামী লীগের অনেকেই পছন্দ করেনি। তাদের মধ্যে ছিলেন যুব ও ছাত্রনেতাদের অনেকেই। অনেক সাংসদ এবং আওয়ামী লীগের নেতারাও এর প্রত্যক্ষ এবং পরোক্ষ বিরোধিতা করেছিলেন।
> Many Awami Leagues did not like the creation of the expatriate government and Tajuddin being made as the Prime Minister. Many of them were young and student leaders including MP's and Awami League leaders also opposed these both, directly and indirectly.
> 
> Sheikh Fazlul Haque Moni, Sirajul Alam Khan, Shahjahan Siraj, Nure Alam Siddiqui and Abdul Kuddus Makhan, among others, opposed the move by Tajuddin. Mr. Abdur Rab Serniabat, Sheikh Abdul Aziz, Mansur Ali, Mr. Nazrul Islam and others were instrumental in helping them indirectly.
> 
> Regarding, accepting Mr Tajuddin's as the Prime Minister General Arora remarked, "The youths of the Awami League didn't like him." (General Arora's interview given to Nikhil Chakrabarty under the titled “Bangladesh's War Memorial”.)
> 
> In general, many young citizens thought that that Sheikh Mujib was not alive. In the absence of Mujibur Rahman, Mr.Tajuddin would not follow Mujib’s influence. If Sheikh Mujib was present, then all the youth and student leaders would have been able to establish their authority in the freedom struggle very easily. However, Tajuddin was viewing their contributions in an indifferent way and was replying to them with on a different tone.
> শেখ ফজলুল হক মনি, সিরাজুল আলম খান, শাহ্‌জাহান সিরাজ, নুরে আলম সিদ্দিকী এবং আব্দুল কুদ্দুস মাখন প্রমুখ যুব ও ছাত্রনেতারা সবাই প্রকাশ্যে তাজুদ্দিনের এ পদক্ষেপের বিরোধিতা করেন। তাদের পরোক্ষভাবে মদদ যোগাচ্ছিলেন জনাব আব্দুর রব সেরনিয়াবাত, শেখ আবদুল আজিজ, মনসুর আলী, জনাব নজরুল ইসলাম প্রমুখ।
> জনাব তাজুদ্দিনের প্রধানমন্ত্রীত্বের গ্রহণযোগ্যতা সম্পর্কে জেনারেল অরোরার মন্তব্য, “আওয়ামী লীগের যুবনেতারা তাকে পছন্দ করত না।” (বাংলাদেশের যুদ্ধের স্মৃতিচারন শিরোনামে নিখিল চক্রবর্ত্তীকে দেয়া জেনারেল অরোরার সাক্ষাৎকার।)
> 
> সাধারণভাবে যুবনেতাদের অনেকেই সেদিন ভেবেছিলেন শেখ মুজিব আর জীবিত নেই। মুজিবর রহমানের অবর্তমানে তাজুদ্দিন তাদের প্রভাবকে তেমন একটা মেনে চলবেন না। শেখ মুজিব কাছে থাকলে এ সমস্ত যুব এবং ছাত্রনেতারা স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামে তাদের কর্তৃত্ব অতি সহজেই স্থাপন করতে সক্ষম হতেন। কিন্তু তাজুদ্দিন তাদের সাথে অন্য সুরে কথা বলছেন।
> 
> তাদের হাতে ক্রিয়াণক হয়ে সংগ্রামের সব নেতৃত্ব তাদের হাতে ছেড়ে দিতে তিনি অস্বীকৃতি জানাচ্ছেন। তাদের সংগ্রামী ভূমিকাকেও ছোট করে দেখছেন জনাব তাজুদ্দিন।
> 
> The P.M. was completely ignoring the opinion of the youths and student leaders in leading the Government. Tajuddin's cremation would not be the end, also due to Tajuddin being the Head of Government; their facilities were also being discontinued.
> 
> Tajuddin ignored the relatives of Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, without giving them proper status as his relatives. Ignoring them was indirectly ignoring Sheikh Mujibur Rahman.
> 
> Therefore, at any cost Tajuddin must be removed as the Prime Minister, and pave the path to the youthsto retain power. According to this plan, some youths and student leaders led by Sheikh Moni and Sirajul Alam Khan met with Indian Prime Minister Mrs. Indira Gandhi and told her that she was the only trusted friend of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman.
> 
> তাজুদ্দিন সরকার পরিচালনায় যুব ও ছাত্রনেতাদের মতামত তিনি সম্পূর্ণ উপেক্ষা করে চলেছেন। তাজুদ্দিনের ধৃষ্টতার শেষ নেই। তিনি সরকার প্রধান থাকার কারণে তাদের সুযোগ-সুবিধাও বন্ধ হয়ে যাচ্ছে। তিনি বঙ্গবন্ধু শেখ মুজিবর রহমানের আত্মীয়-স্বজনকেও যথাযথ মর্যাদা দান না করে তাদের উপেক্ষা করেছেন। তাদের উপেক্ষা করা, পরোক্ষভাবে শেখ মুজিবকেই উপেক্ষা করার সমতুল্য।
> 
> Mr. Tajuddin hands were been behind the arrest of Sheikh Mujib in the hands of the Pakistan army. Before his arrest, Sheikh Mujib ordered his followers to wage out the struggle for independence with the help of the Indian government.
> 
> Most of the Awami League and the provincial MPs who came from Bangladesh also had not supported Mr. Tajuddin. In this situation, Tajuddin had no right to remain as the Prime Minister. In support of their statement, they handed over a letter to Md. Abdur Rab, the brother-in-law of Mujibur Rahman, addressed to Ms. Indira Gandhi and the letter was presented by Sheikh Kamal, the eldest son of Sheikh Mujib.
> 
> They also informed Mrs. Gandhi that if Tajuddin continued as the Prime Minister of an independent Bangladesh, India's interests will be affected as Mr. Tajuddin would not implement Sheikh Mujib's ideology.
> 
> In this context, for the interest of the both the parties, they requested Mrs. Gandhi to arrange training for Mujib devotees from Bangladesh and their loyal youth under their leadership. They said that only by developing this kind of power could it be possible to maintain a meaningful relationship between Bangladesh and India, even after Independence. Otherwise, the Awami League government would soon become a victim of the intrigues of anti Indian’s elements from within itself.
> 
> Most of the Awami League and the provincial MPs who came from Bangladesh also had not supported Mr. Tajuddin. In this situation, Tajuddin had no right to remain as the Prime Minister. In support of their statement, they handed over a letter to Md. Abdur Rab, the brother-in-law of Mujibur Rahman, addressed to Ms. Indira Gandhi and the letter was presented by Sheikh Kamal, the eldest son of Sheikh Mujib.
> 
> They also informed Mrs. Gandhi that if Tajuddin continued as the Prime Minister of an independent Bangladesh, India's interests will be affected as Mr. Tajuddin would not implement Sheikh Mujib's ideology.
> অতএব, যে কোন মূল্যে তাজুদ্দিনকে প্রধানমন্ত্রীত্ব থেকে অপসারন করতে হবে। মেতে উঠলেন তারা এক ক্ষমতা লাভের চকক্রান্তে। পরিকল্পনা অনুযায়ী শেখ মনি ও সিরাজুল আলম খানের নেতৃত্বে কয়েকজন যুব ও ছাত্রনেতা দিল্লী গিয়ে ভারতের প্রধানমন্ত্রী শ্রীমতী ইন্দিরা গান্ধীর সঙ্গে দেখা করে তাকে জানান যে তারা শেখ মুজিবর রহমানের অত্যন্ত বিশ্বাসভাজন।
> 
> পাক বাহিনীর হাতে শেখ মুজিবের গ্রেফতারের পেছনে জনাব তাজুদ্দিনের হাত রয়েছে। গ্রেফতারের আগে শেখ মুজিব তাদের সে কথা জানিয়ে তাদেরকে ভারত সরকারের সহায়তায় স্বাধীনতার সংগ্রাম পরিচালনা করার নির্দেশ দিয়ে যান।
> 
> জনাব তাজুদ্দিনের উপর বাংলাদেশ থেকে আগত বেশিরভাগ আওয়ামী লীগ জাতীয় এবং প্রাদেশিক সাংসদদের সমর্থনও নেই। এ অবস্থায় প্রধানমন্ত্রীত্ব করার কোন অধিকার নেই তাজুদ্দিন সাহেবের। তাদের বক্তব্যের সমর্থনে তারা মুজিবর রহমানের ভগ্নিপতি জনাব আব্দুর রব সেরনিয়াবাতের একটি চিঠি শ্রীমতি ইন্দিরা গান্ধীকে প্রদান করেন এবং শেখ মুজিবের জেষ্ঠ পুত্র শেখ কামালকে তার সম্মুখে উপস্থিত করেন।
> 
> তারা শ্রীমতি গান্ধীকে এ কথা বলেও হু্ঁশিয়ার করে দেন যে তাজুদ্দিন যদি স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশের প্রধানমন্ত্রী থাকেন তবে ভারতের স্বার্থও ক্ষতিগ্রস্থ হবে। কারণ জনাব তাজুদ্দিন শেখ মুজিবের নীতি আদর্শ কিছুতেই বাস্তবায়িত করবেন না।
> 
> এই পরিপ্রেক্ষিতে দু’পক্ষের স্বার্থে তাদের নেতৃত্বে বাংলাদেশ থেকে আগত মুজিব ভক্ত এবং তাদের অনুগত তরুণদের প্রশিক্ষনের ব্যবস্থা করার জন্য তারা শ্রীমতি গান্ধীর কাছে আবেদন জানান। তারা বলেন, শুধুমাত্র এ ধরণের শক্তি গড়ে তোলার মাধ্যমেই স্বাধীনতা উত্তর বাংলাদেশ এবং বন্ধুরাষ্ট্র ভারতের মধ্যে অর্থবহ সম্পর্ক বজিয়ে রাখা সম্ভব। তা না হলে অচিরেই ভারত বিদ্বেষীদের চক্রান্তের শিকারে পরিণত হবে আওয়ামী লীগ সরকার।
> 
> তাদের এ অনুরোধ সাগ্রহে গ্রহণ করেন শ্রীমতি গান্ধী। সুদূর প্রসারী নীল নকশার কথা চিন্তা করেই Divide and Rule নীতির প্রয়োগের জন্য BLF বিএলএফ পরবর্তিতে নাম বদলিয়ে মুজিব বাহিনীর সৃষ্টি করে সেকেন্ড ফ্রন্ট খোলার সিদ্ধান্ত নেয়া হয়। এভাবেই সৃষ্টি করা হয়েছিল বিএলএফ ওরফে মুজিব বাহিনী
> Mrs. Gandhi took this request into high consideration, anticipating the far-reaching implications of the Indian blue print, thus, the BLF or Mujib Bahani was created, exclusively for the use of the “Divide and Rule” policy and the decision to open a second front was incorporated by creating the Mujib force. These were the factors behind raising the BLF, commonly known as “Mujib Bahini”.
> 
> When this decision was informed to theC in C, Mr. Osmani, in turn informed Mr. Tajuddin, the Prime Minister, Mr. Tajuddin, raised these issues with the Indian government in New Delhi and demanded to redress these issues. However, Mr. Haksar, Mr. D.P Dhar along with Ramnath Rao and General Oban of RAW and General Wan Singh kept silent and avoided Mr. Tajuddin.
> 
> Col. Osmani was informed about these new developments, and stated what Mr. Tajuddin said. later everyone concerned came to know the narration from Col. Osmani. In the next phase, Colonel Osmani tried his level best to bring Mujib Bahini under the control of Forces Headquarters of the expatriate Bangladesh government. However, all his efforts were futile. Colonel Osmani was forced to accept the Indian decision to create the BLF or Mujib Bahini.
> 
> এ তথ্যগুলোও জনাব ওসমানীকে জান, তিনি সেগুলো জনাব তাজুদ্দিনকে জানান। প্রধানমন্ত্রী জনাব তাজুদ্দিন নাকি এ সমস্ত প্রশ্ন নিয়ে দিল্লীতে ভারত সরকারের সঙ্গে আলোচনা করেন এবং এর প্রতিবিধানের দাবি জানান। কিন্তু জনাব হাকসার, ডিপিধর, ‘র’ Ramnath Rao and General Oban of RAWএর রমানাথ রাও এবং জেনারেল ওবান সিং এ ব্যাপারে তাজুদ্দিনকে এড়িয়ে গিয়ে নিরব থাকেন।
> ফিরে এসে কর্নেল ওসমানীকে সে কথাই বলেছিলেন জনাব তাজুদ্দিন। পরে কর্নেল ওসমানীর কাছ থেকে তার ব্যাখ্যা জানতে পারি। পরবর্তী পর্যায়ে মুজিব বাহিনীকে প্রবাসী বাংলাদেশ সরকারের ফোর্সেস হেডকোয়টার্স এর নিয়ন্ত্রণে আনার আপ্রাণ চেষ্টা করেছিলেন কর্নেল ওসমানী। কিন্তু তার কোন চেষ্টাই ফলপ্রসু হয়নি। নিতান্ত অপারগ হয়েই কর্নেল ওসমানীকে বিএলএফ তথা মুজিব বাহিনী সৃষ্টি করার ভারতীয় সিদ্ধান্ত মেনে নিতে হয়।
> 
> With the assistance of the Indian intelligence, F.F, Captain Jalil became aware of the secret contacts, which the Indians were maintaining with the other officers of the Eastern Command, located at Fort William.
> The Indian government not only controlled the exile government along with the Liberation Army's headquarters but also regulated the freedom struggle and the political progress of Bangladesh; moreover, they were also trying to develop relations with powerful commanders.
> 
> Brilliantly, they crafted an incompatible tussle between Tajuddin's and the expatriate government and kept him under severe pressure, thus, forcing him to remain under the Indian control.
> On the other hand, in the same manner the C in C of the Mujibnagar government and freedom fighter, Mr. Osmani, was also restricted to exercise his authority. Colonel Osmani was extremely humiliated for these reasons thus, Colonel Osmani was also side tracked. However, his position was firm and clear.
> 
> ভারতীয় গোয়েন্দা বাহিনীর সহায়তায় ক্যাপ্টেন জলিলের ফোর্ট উইলিয়ামের পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় হেডকোয়াটার্সের কর্মকর্তাদের সাথে গোপন যোগাযোগ থেকে একটি বিষয় পরিষ্কার হয়ে উঠল।
> ভারতীয় সরকার শুধুমাত্র প্রবাসী সরকার এবং মুক্তি বাহিনীর সদর দপ্তরের মাধ্যমেই বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রাম এবং রাজনৈতিক গতিধারাকে নিয়ন্ত্রণ করছিল তা নয়, তারা ক্ষমতাধর কমান্ডারদের সাথেও সম্পর্ক গড়ে তোলার চেষ্টা করছিল।
> 
> অত্যন্ত চতুরতার সাথে তারা তাজুদ্দিনের প্রবাসী সরকারের মধ্যে অর্ন্তদ্বন্দ্ব সৃষ্টি করে তাকেও দুর্বল করে চাপের মুখে রাখছিল যাতে তিনি তাদের নিয়ন্ত্রণের মধ্যে থাকতে বাধ্য হন।
> অপরদিকে মুজিবনগর সরকার ও মুক্তিযোদ্ধের সর্বাধিনায়ক জনাব ওসমানীর মধ্যেও দ্বন্দ্ব সৃষ্টি করে কর্নেল ওসমানীর ক্ষমতা সীমিত করে রাখা হচিছল একইভাবে। কর্নেল ওসমানীকে সাইড ট্র্যাক করে প্রবাসী সরকার ও ভারতীয় কর্তৃপক্ষের এ ধরণের কার্যকলাপে কর্নেল ওসমানী অতি যুক্তিসঙ্গত কারণেই ভীষণভাবে অপমানিত বোধ করছিলেন। তার বক্তব্য ছিল পরিষ্কার।
> The Bengali nation was grateful for the fact that India had agreed to assist us in humanitarian causes according to their statement regarding Bangladesh's independence struggle, just as a good friend.
> The glorious liberation struggle was the struggle of the eight crore Bengalis of East Bengal in their own freedom struggle.The FF’S had to organize their struggle in exchange for any kind of sacrifices; the FF’S also had to achieve their national independence, directly under the leadership and responsibilities under the command of the Liberation Army and the exiled Bangladesh government.
> 
> Mr. Osmani never compromised on these basic policy issues. There were a lot of debate with the leadership of the then exiled government on these matters. Anyways, most of the leaders of the Awami League and the Constituent Assembly did not support this policy.
> 
> While they were busy preparing their own inner power circles.The most bizarre thoughts that were working in almost all of the exiled AL Leaders. Not only were the political leaders but many bureaucrats and opportunist leadership of the freedom struggle was also reflective of the same thoughts. They believed that the as the liberation war has started, these high ups were struggling to protect, the millions of crores of rupees and wealth they had looted from almost all parts of East Pakistan, before fleeing, and stored those wealth in India, as a safe harbor.
> 
> ভারত বন্ধুরাষ্ট্র হিসাবে বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামে তাদের বক্তব্য অনুযায়ী মানবিক কারণে সাহায্য দিতে সম্মত হয়েছে সেটার জন্য বাঙ্গালী জাতি কৃতজ্ঞ।
> কিন্তু স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামটা পূর্ব বাংলার ৮ কোটি বাঙ্গালীর নিজস্ব সংগ্রাম। এ সংগ্রাম তাদেরই সংগঠিত করতে হবে। যে কোন ত্যাগের বিনিময়ে তাদেরকেই অর্জন করতে হবে জাতীয় স্বাধীনতা, সংগ্রামের নেতৃত্ব ও সব দায়িত্বও থাকতে হবে মুক্তিফৌজ কমান্ড ও প্রবাসী বাংলাদেশ সরকারের অধিনে।
> জনাব ওসমানী নীতির এ প্রশ্নে কখনোই আপোষ করেননি। এ বিষয় নিয়ে তৎকালীন প্রবাসী সরকারের নেতৃত্বের সাথে অনেক বির্তক হয়েছে তার। কিন্তু তার এ নীতির প্রতি সমর্থন দেননি আওয়ামী লীগের বেশিরভাগ নেতৃত্ব ও গণপরিষদ সদস্যরা।
> 
> তারা তখন নিজ নিজ ক্ষমতার বলয় তৈরি করতে ব্যস্ত। তাদের প্রায় সবার মাঝেই এক ধরণের উদ্ভট চিন্তা কাজ করছিল। শুধু রাজনৈতিক নেতৃবৃন্দই নয় অনেক আমলা এমনকি মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের সুবিধাবাদী নেতৃত্বের মাঝেও সেই একই চিন্তার প্রতিফলন দেখা যাচ্ছিল। তাদের ধারণা ছিল মুক্তিযুদ্ধ যে কারণেই হোক শুরু হয়ে গেছে। প্রতিরোধ সংগ্রামকালে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের প্রায় সব অঞ্চল থেকে কোটি কোটি টাকা ও সম্পদ লুন্ঠন করে নিয়ে হিজরত করে চলে আসা হয়েছে নিরাপদ আশ্রয় ভারতে।
> *Even though, as a Freedom Fighter this was a shameful act to state that, many intellectuals and High ups, those who all had escaped from East Pakistan, also viewed the heroic liberation struggle of the freedom fighters in a negative light. They believed that the Bengali freedom fighters would never be able to liberate their country by defeating the Pakistani force*.
> 
> *They believed that, in order to defeat the Pakistan army, it was necessary that the Indian armed forces must get involved directly. Many of these leaders did not have the will or the ability to participate in a bloody lasting struggle. They were also unwilling to risk a lengthy fight and to not ready to suffer immense sacrifices*. বলতে লজ্জা লাগলেও বলতে হচ্ছে পূর্ব পাকিস্তান থেকে পালিয়ে আসা অনেক বুদ্ধিজীবি ও হোমরা-চোমরা পদস্থ ব্যক্তিরাও মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের বীরত্বপূর্ণ মুক্তি সংগ্রামকে দেখতেন অত্যন্ত নেতিবাচক দৃষ্টিতে। তারা মনে করতেন বাঙ্গালী মুক্তিযোদ্ধারা কখনই পাকিস্তান হানাদার বাহিনীকে পরাস্ত করে দেশ স্বাধীন করতে সক্ষম হবে না।
> 
> *Soon after ending their Indian ‘Hajj’, they would be exempted from their exiled life and would be redeemed and enjoy a real luxurious life with the looted black wealth/money, which would start very soon, through the direct intervention of the Indian forces, alone.*
> 
> *Once they had been able to endorse the stamps as “Indian Hajis”, they would be soon be able to return to their country, where was the barrier for them to from establishing their own rule? Therefore, the country must be liberated, as soon as possible. Accordingly, a section of these high ups had started immense lobbying with the various organs of the Indian government.*
> 
> *In the entire exiled governments, only two leaders firmly opposed these initiatives from the beginning. One of them was Colonel Osmani and the second person was Mr. Khandokar Mushtaq Ahmad. Apart from these two, most of the senior Political Leaders along with many of the bureaucrats' high profile citizens favoring Bangladesh's Independence, through the direct intervention of the Indian Army. Thereby, through a “Cesarean operation” subsequently, the premature birth of Bangladesh occurred*.
> 
> *However, most of the freedom fighters, and young officers from the bureaucracy and were against this idea of liberation, in this context, the youth's ideological conflict with those elders was increasing many folds, which was not to serve the interest of other Nation , nor at their mercy. *
> 
> In order to defeat the Pakistan army, these top leaders felt that, it was necessary that the Indian Army Forces must directly be involved, as many of them did not have the will or ability to participate in a bloody lasting struggle. They were also unwilling to risk the war and to suffer and sacrifices.
> Soon after their ' Indian Hajj' ended, these elderly leaders would be exempted for their exiled lives and would be redeemed and could lead a luxurious life style with the stolen black money.These goals could be achieved within a shortest period, through the direct intervention of the Indian forces, alone.
> 
> Once they had received the Hajj stamps from India, once they return to their country, there would be no the barrier’s from establishing their rules? Immediately these elements, for the country to be liberated, a section of them started lobbying heavily from various parts of the Indian government.
> পাকিস্তান বাহিনীকে পরাজিত করতে সরাসরি ভারতীয় সেনা বাহিনীর হস-ক্ষেপ অবশ্যই অতি প্রয়োজনীয়। রক্তক্ষয়ী দীর্ঘস্থায়ী সংগ্রামে অংশগ্রহণ করার ইচ্ছা অথবা যোগ্যতা তাদের অনেকেরই ছিল না। যুদ্ধের ঝুঁকি এবং কষ্ট ও ত্যাগ স্বীকার করতেও তারা ছিলেন নারাজ।
> এতে করেই তাড়াতাড়ি 'হজ্জ্ব' শেষ করে প্রবাসী জীবনের কষ্ট থেকে রেহাই পেয়ে দেশে ফিরে লুটপাটের কালো টাকার আয়েশী জীবন খুব তাড়াতাড়ি আবার শুরু করতে পারা যাবে একমাত্র ভারতীয় বাহিনীর প্রত্যক্ষ হস্তক্ষেপের মাধ্যমেই।
> 
> ভারতে হজ্জ্ব করার স্ট্যাম্প যখন একবার নিতে সক্ষম হয়েছেন তারা তখন দেশে ফেরার পর তাদের রাজ কায়েম করার পথে বাধা কোথায়? তাই যত তাড়াতাড়ি সম্ভব দেশটাকে স্বাধীন করে দেবার জন্য তাদের একাংশ গোড়া থেকেই ভারত সরকারের বিভিন্ন মহলে জোর লবিং শুরু করে দিয়েছিলেন।
> 
> সমস্ত প্রবাসী সরকারের মধ্যে শুধুমাত্র দু’জন শুরু থেকে শেষ পর্যন্ত এ ধরণের উদ্যোগের বিরোধিতা দৃঢ়তার সাথে করে গিয়েছিলেন। তাদের একজন হলেন কর্নেল ওসমানী এবং দ্বিতীয় ব্যক্তি হলেন জনাব খন্দোকার মোশতাক আহমদ। এই দুইজন ছাড়া সিনিয়র রাজনৈতিক নেতৃত্বের প্রায় সবাই এবং আমলাদের উচ্চপদস্থ প্রভাবশালী ব্যক্তিদের অনেকেই ভারতের প্রত্যক্ষ হস্তক্ষেপের মাধ্যমে বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা লাভের পক্ষপাতিত্ত্ব করছিলেন। পরবর্তিকালে সিজরিয়ন অপারেশন এর মাধ্যমে বাংলাদেশের Premature birth এর জন্য মূলতঃ এরাও দায়ী ছিলেন অনেকাংশে। কিন্তু বেশিরভাগ মুক্তিযোদ্ধা, আমলাতন্ত্রের তরুণ সদস্যরা এভাবে অপরের কৃপায় বাংলাদেশকে স্বাধীন করার উদ্যোগের ঘোর বিরোধী ছিলেন। এ নিয়ে প্রবীণদের সাথে তরুণদের দ্বন্দ্ব ক্রমশঃই বেড়ে উঠছিল প্রতিদিন।
> Among all exiled governments officials, only two opposed these plans firmly with the beginning. One of them was Colonel Osmani and the second person was Mr. Khandokar Mushtaq Ahmad.
> Apart from these two, most of the Senior Political Leaders including many bureaucrats' and high-profile influential figures were favoring Bangladesh's independence through the direct intervention of India. Subsequently, through a Cesarean Operation, significantly contributed for the premature birth of Bangladesh. However, most of the freedom fighters, young officers of the bureaucracy were t against the plan of liberating Bangladesh for serving the interest of others Nations. Thus, the youth FF's conflict with their seniors was increasing manifolds with every passing day.
> 
> 
> Kindly read the above facts.



But when was love ever stupid?

Was talking about the Pakistani girl you loved.

Ive had some girls in.my life. Loved only one other than my wife. But was emotionally involved with all.

I could never do the wham bam scene ....

Cheers, Doc

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## Banglar Bir

padamchen said:


> But when was love ever stupid?
> Was talking about the Pakistani girl you loved.
> Ive had some girls in.my life. Loved only one other than my wife. But was emotionally involved with all.
> I could never do the wham bam scene ....
> Cheers, Doc


Guess,could not understand you correctly. I was engrossed with history of 1971, only, will upload few more shortly.

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## Banglar Bir

*Part # 2 (Copied)*

*The so-called “Allied Forces” blanketed the freedom fighter valor, bravery and sacrifices and courage of the masses, trough a Dark Shadow.*

*তথাকথিত* *মিত্রবাহিনীর* *কালো* *ছায়ার* *আচ্ছাদনে* *ঢাকা* *পড়ে* *যায়* *মুক্তিফৌজ* *এবং* *জনগণের* *বীরগাঁথা, আত্মত্যাগ* *এবং* *সাহসিকতা*

The joint command was created, however, the policy of by passing the command of the C in C, freedom fighter, Colonel Osmani were neglected in all matters.*যৌথ* *কমান্ড* *স্থাপিত* *হলো* *কিন্তু* *মুক্তি* *ফৌজের* *সর্বাধিনায়ক* *কর্নেল* *ওসমানীকে* *সব* *ব্যাপারেই* *পাশ* *কাটিয়ে* *চলার* *নীতি* *গ্রহণ* *করা* *হয়।*

*In November, the intensity of the war increased greatly. The climax of the cross-border clashes was increasing in the border. The Indian government had already allowed the Indian army forces to enter into the territories of Bangladesh, if necessary, to counter the Pakistan Army.*

*The joint command of freedom fighters and Indian forces has been formed.*

*নভেম্বর* *মাসে* *যুদ্ধের* *তীব্রতা* *বৃদ্ধি* *পায়* *ব্যাপকভাবে।* *বর্ডারে* *সম্মুখ* *সংঘর্ষের* *মাত্রা* *ক্রমেই* *বেড়ে* *চলেছে।* *ভারত* *সরকার* *ইতিমধ্যে* *ভারতীয়* *সেনা* *বাহিনীকে* *পাক* *বাহিনীর* *মোকাবেলা* *করার* *জন্য* *প্রয়োজনে* *বাংলাদেশের* *সীমানার* *ভিতরে* *প্রবেশ* *করার* *অনুমতি* *প্রদান* *করেছে।গঠন* *করা* *হয়েছে* *মুক্তিফৌজ* *ও* *ভারতীয়* *বাহিনীর* *যৌথ* *কমান্ড।*

After formation of the Joint Command, C in C Colonel Osmani and his headquarters in the true sense were made completely ineffective. The Indian Commanders completely ignored Colonel Osmani and took complete responsibility for the formation of the Eastern Command under their direct control.

*যৌথ* *কমান্ড* *গঠিত* *হবার* *পর* *ভারতীয়* *কমান্ডারদের* *প্রচন্ড* *প্রভাবে* *কর্নেল* *ওসমানী* *এবং* *তার* *হেডকোয়াটার্স* *প্রকৃত* *অর্থে* *অকেজো* *হয়ে* *পড়েছে।* *বাংলাদেশ* *আক্রমণের* *পরিকল্পনা* *এককভাবে* *ভারতীয়* *বাহিনীর* *ইর্ষ্টান* *কমান্ডই* *প্রণয়ন* *করার* *দায়িত্ব* *গ্রহণ* *করে* *কর্নেল* *ওসমানীকে* *সম্পূর্ণভাবে* *উপেক্ষা* *করে।*

President Yahya Khan finally beleived the actual war scenario and despatched Mr. Bhutto as his special envoy to China to garner support of the Chinise for Pakistan against any aggression by India.

প্রেসিডেন্ট ইয়াহিয়া খান যুদ্ধের আভাস পেয়ে জনাব ভুট্টোকে তার বিশেষ দূত হিসেবে চীনে পাঠালেন ভারতীয় যেকোন আগ্রাসনের বিরুদ্ধে পাকিস্তানের পক্ষে সমর্থন আদায় করার জন্য। কিন্তু পিকিংএ গণচীনের নেতৃবৃন্দ জনাব ভুট্টোকে পরিষ্কারভাবে জানিয়ে দেন, “পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে সৃষ্ট রাজনৈতিক পরিস্থিতির সুযোগ গ্রহণ করে পাকিস্তানের আভ্যন্তরীন ব্যাপারে ভারতীয় সামরিক হস্তক্ষেপকে গণচীন পাকিস্তানকে দ্বি-খন্ডিত করার হীন চক্রান্ত হিসাবেই দেখবে এবং সেই পরিপ্রেক্ষিতে ভারতের সাথে যেকোন সামরিক সংঘাতে নীতিগতভাবে তারা পাকিস্তানের পক্ষেই থাকবে।”

In response, the leaders of the Chinese Communist Party clearly informed Mr. Bhutto, "By taking advantage of the political situation created in East Pakistan, Indian military intervention in Pakistan's internal affairs will be seen as a vicious plot to divide Pakistan into two different land masses, and in view of this, in principle, they would support Pakistan in any military conflict."

At the same time, the Chinese leaders advised Mr. Bhutto and the Pakistani military junta, to resolve the conflict as soon as possible, and to find a political solution to these delicate problems, according to the will of the people of East Pakistan.

The Chinese valuable advices were the only solution to maintain the territorial integrity of Pakistan under the then existing situation, which was: Only through a reasonable and acceptable political settlement. Applying force would never solve these problems.

Two aspects became crystal clear from the Chinese leader's remarks.

Firstly: On one hand, the masses had conveyed a reasonable advice to the rulers of Pakistan and presented them with an acceptable solution for the Bengali people, i.e., to resolve the political problems of East Pakistan.

Secondly: If the Pakistani junta failed to resolve these grave issues relating to East Pakistan, they warned the friendly Government of Pakistan that the naked ambition and interference of the Indians would spread their sphere of influence, in the Subcontinent.

*প্রথমত: *গণচীন একদিকে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের রাজনৈতিক সমস্যার নিরসনের জন্য পাকিস্তানের শাসকগোষ্ঠিকে বাঙ্গালীদের কাছে গ্রহণযোগ্য একটি সমাধান পেশ করার যুক্তিসঙ্গত পরামর্শ দেন।

*দ্বিতীয়ত:* পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের সমস্যার কোন সমাধান করতে ব্যর্থ হলে সেই সুযোগে উপমহাদেশে ভারতীয় সমপ্রসারনবাদের নগ্ন থাবা বিস্তার করার চক্রান্তের ব্যাপারেও তারা বন্ধুরাষ্ট্র পাকিস্তানকে হুঁশিয়ার করে দেন।

However, after returning home, Mr. Bhutto’s gravely misinterpreted the friendly and rational advice of Chinese leaders, and conyeyed a different view to President Yahya Khan and the Military Junta. Mr. Bhutto stated that, "China will help Pakistan in the overall military conflict with India," he added that, if required, China will not hesitate to fight against the Indian’s. He further stated that this was the outcome of his exclusive meeting with the Chinese leaders.

On the other hand, the Indian government realized that the people of the country were in favor of a political solution to Bangladesh. In addition to the newly-concluded Russian-India Friendship Agreement, the Indian government was also convinced that the prospects of China being directly involved in the Indo-Pakistani War were highly unlikely.

পক্ষান্তরে ভারতীয় সরকার বুঝতে পেরেছিল গণচীন বাংলাদেশের ব্যাপারে একটি রাজনৈতিক সমাধানের পক্ষে। তাছাড়া সদ্য সমাপ্ত রুশ-ভারত মৈত্রী চুক্তির পরিপ্রেক্ষিতে পাক-ভারত যুদ্ধে গণচীনের প্রত্যক্ষভাবে জড়িয়ে পরার সম্ভাবনা খুবই কম বলেও ধারণা পোষণ করছিল ভারত সরকার।

মাধ্যমে তারা পাকিস্তানের সামরিক জান্তাকে পরামর্শ দিয়েছিলেন যথাশীঘ্র সম্ভব পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের জনগণের ইচ্ছানুযায়ী বর্তমান সমস্যার একটি রাজনৈতিক সমাধান খুঁজে বের করার জন্য। তাদের Considered Opinion ছিল বর্তমান পরিস্থিতিতে শুধুমাত্র একটি যুক্তিসঙ্গত এবং গ্রহণযোগ্য রাজনৈতিক সমাধানের মাধ্যমেই পাকিস্তানের অখন্ডতা বজায়ে রাখা সম্ভব। বল প্রয়োগ করে এই সমস্যার সমাধান কখনও সম্ভব হবে না। চীনা নেতৃবৃন্দের উক্তি থেকে দু’টো বিষয় পরিষ্কার হয়ে উঠে।

কিন্তু দেশে ফিরে জনাব ভুট্টো প্রেসিডেন্ট ইয়াহিয়া খান ও সামরিক জান্তার কাছে চীনা নেতৃবৃন্দের বন্ধুসুলভ এবং যুক্তিসম্পন্ন অভিমতের অপব্যাখ্যা দেন। তিনি বলেন, “ভারতের সাথে সামরিক সংঘর্ষে চীন পাকিস্তানকে সার্বিকভাবে সাহায্য করবে। প্রয়োজনে গণচীন প্রত্যক্ষভাবে পাকিস্তানের পক্ষ হয়ে ভারতের বিরুদ্ধে যুদ্ধও করতে দ্বিধাবোধ করবে না এ ধরণের আভাসই নাকি তিনি পেয়েছিলেন চীনা নেতৃবৃন্দের কাছ থেকে একান্ত বৈঠকে

If the United States or China decides to take any counter action due to Geo-strategic reasons, their arch enemy, the U.S.S R would definitely decide to position itself with the India's side, and would not sit silently due to the recent 'Friendship Agreement' concluded with India, the response would have resulted in the “Third World War”. Neither the U.S.A nor the P.R.C would be willing to shoulder the responsibility for starting the 3rd WW scenario; was of a great doubt.

মার্কিন যুক্তরাষ্ট্র কিংবা গণচীন যদি Geo-Strategic কারণে কোন পদক্ষেপ নেবার চেষ্টা করে তবে তাদের পরম শত্রু সোভিয়েত ইউনিয়ন প্রতিক্রিয়ায় ‘মৈত্রী চুক্তির’ আচ্ছাদনে নিশ্চুপ বসে না থেকে ভারতের পক্ষ নেবে নিশ্চিতভাবে ফলে বেধে যাবে তৃতীয় বিশ্বযুদ্ধ। বর্তমানে বাস্তব অবস্থার পরিপ্রেক্ষিতে একটা বিশ্বযুদ্ধ শুরু করার দায়-দায়িত্ব নিজেদের কাঁধে নিতে চাইবে কিনা যুক্তরাষ্ট্র অথবা গণচীন সে বিষয়েও যথেষ্ট সন্দেহ রয়েছে।



সবচেয়ে বড় কথা পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের ৮কোটি জনগণ আজ পাকিস্তানের স্বৈরশাসনের বিরুদ্ধে। মুক্তি বাহিনীর দেশব্যাপী প্রচন্ড তৎপরতায় পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে অবস্থিত পাক বাহিনীর অবস্থান সম্পূর্ণরূপে বিপর্যস্ত এবং যেকোন যুদ্ধের জন্য অত্যাবশ্যকীয় ফ্যাক্টর সৈনিকদের মনোবলও সম্পূর্ণভাবে ভেঙ্গে পড়েছে। খান সেনারা সার্বিকভাবে শুধু দুর্বল হয়ে পড়েছিল তাই নয়; তাদের Strategic Locations, Line Of Communication, Defensive Positions, Supply Points, Re-Enforcement Capabilities, Battle Tactics, Logistic Support Line এ সমস্ত গুরুত্বপূর্ণ গোপনীয় বিষয়ে সব খবরা-খবরই এখন রয়েছে ভারতীয় বাহিনীর নখদর্পনে।

এসব খবর সংগ্রহ করা হয়েছে মুক্তি বাহিনীর ইনটেলিজেন্স ইউনিট এবং সেক্টরগুলোর নিজস্ব গোয়েন্দা তৎপরতার মাধ্যমে।

There was considerable logic behind the Indian views. Under these prevailing circumstances, East Pakistan could easily be liberated by the Indians and they could install a government of their choice.

After in depth analysis, the Government of India decided to declare a fully fledged war. The Indian government decided to launch a military aggression after completing all necessary preparations for the war.

এ ধরণের চিন্তা-ভাবনার পেছনে যথেষ্ট যুক্তি ছিল। এ অবস্থায় ঝটিকা অভিযান চালিয়ে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানকে স্বাধীন করে সেখানে তাদের পছন্দের সরকার কায়েম করতে পারা যাবে সহজেই।

এ ধরণের বিশ্লেষনের পরই যুদ্ধ ঘোষণা করার সিদ্ধান্ত গ্রহণ করে ভারত সরকার। যুদ্ধের জন্য অতি প্রয়োজনীয় আনুসাঙ্গিক সব প্রস্তুতি সম্পন্ন করেই সামরিক আগ্রাসনের সিদ্ধান্ত নিয়েছিল ভারত সরকার।

এবারের যুদ্ধের প্রেক্ষাপট অতীতের পাক-ভারত যুদ্ধের প্রেক্ষাপট থেকে সম্পূর্ণ ভিন্ন। বর্তমান অবস্থায় বিশ্ব জনমত সামরিক জান্তার শ্বেতসন্ত্রাসের বিরুদ্ধে এবং বাংলাদেশীদের স্বাধীনতার পক্ষে। মানবাধিকার এবং শরনার্থীর প্রশ্নে সারা বিশ্বের সহানুভূতিও ভারতের পক্ষে।

*The war of 1971 was quite different from the earlier-Pakistan-India wars. During those days the world public opinion was against of the Pakistani military junta and in favor for the independence of the Bangladeshis. India also gained significant global sympathy for human rights plight and abuses of refugee’s crisis played a significant role in galvanizing the world opinion in favor of India.*

The biggest factor was that the eight crore people of East Pakistan were firmly opposed to the dictatorship of Pakistan.

The Pakistani Army became morally shattered, out stretched and undermanned. Their Strategic Locations, Line of Communication, Defensive Positions, Supply Points, Re-Enforcement Capabilities, Battle Tactics, Logistic Support Line confidential and important news were made known to their Indian enemies.

These intelligence reports were collected by the Intelligence Unit of the Liberation Army and the Sectors Commanders, themselves.

বাংলাদেশের আপামর জনসাধারনের বিরোধিতার মুখে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে পশ্চিমাদের জবরদখল আজ অযৌক্তিক হয়ে পড়েছে। শত্রুপক্ষের অবস্থা বর্তমানে totally untenable. প্রয়োজন শুধু সুযোগমত আক্রমণের ধাক্কা তাহলেই কেল্লা ফতে হবে।

In the face of stiff resistance from the common people of, the East, West’s occupation of East Pakistan had become totally untenable. The only requirement was to launch an attack at the appropriate time and the fort would crumble.

The opportunity came. On 3rd December, at 5:45 pm, Pakistan Air Force launched pre-emptive strikes suddenly on the strategic targets in many targets in India. Simintiniously Air strikes was carried out at Shinagar, Actitipur, Pathankot, Uttlai, Jodhpur, Ambala and Agra Airports.

During that same time, Mrs. Indira Gandhi was delivering a speech at a public meeting in Kolkata. After receiving the news of air strikes, she decided at that moment *to strike back The Indians had counter attacked Pakistan, during that public meeting. Before returning to Delhi from Calcutta that evening, Mrs. Gandhi ordered General Aurora, the GOC (General Officer Commanding) of the Eastern to launch a full-scale military offensive in East Pakistan.*

Three autonomous Army corps was placed under General Aurora. 2nd,33rd and the 4th Corps. There was also a 'Communication Zone Headquarter', a mobile army unit. Apart from this, additional medium Armed Regiment and a Light Armed Regiment were placed under his command.

The Commander of this Corps was Lt. Gen. T.N.Raina Headquarters: Krishnanagar. Under this corps, an additional middle artillery regiment and one engineer's bridging unit were attached, under command.

33 Corps Commander was Lt. Gen M.L.Thapa. Headquarter at Shiliguri. Under these Corps an additional light armored regiment, a medium artillery regiment and an engineer's bridging unit were allotted. 

Commander of the 101 Communications was initially replaced by Lt.Gen.Gill later replaced by Lt.Gen.Nagra. Headquarters was located at Guwahati. Headquarters of the 4th Corps of this formation was in Agartala. The Corps commander was Lt.Gen. Sagat Singh Under this Corps, an extra Medium Artillery regiment and two light-armored regiments were attached

In total, the Indian Army had more than five lakhs troops (5, 00,000) in the Eastern region. *General Aurora* had more than enough recourses at his disposal. During that period there was no requirement to deploy such a huge force to fight against Pakistani Army in Eastern Wing.

This huge Force was organized also against the People Republic of China to counter any Chinese military’s offensive actions.

সুযোগ এসে গেল। ৩রা ডিসেম্বর বিকেল ৫:৪৫ মিনিটে আকস্মিকভাবে Pakistan Air Force Pre-Emptive Stick করে বসলো ভারতের বিভিন্ন জায়গায় স্ট্রাটেজিক টার্গেটগুলোর উপর। একইসাথে আঘাত হানা হল শীণগর, অভিন্তিপুর, পাঠানকোট, উত্তরলাই, যোধপুর, আম্বালা এবং আগ্রা বিমান ঘাটির উপর।

ঠিক সেই সময়ে শ্রীমতি ইন্দিরা গান্ধী কোলকাতায় এক জনসভায় ভাষণ দিচ্ছিলেন। বিমান হামলার খবর তাকে দেয়ামাত্র তিনি মুহুর্তে সিদ্ধান্ত নিয়ে ঐ জনসভাতেই পাকিস্তানের বিরুদ্ধে সর্বাত্মক পাল্টা আক্রমণের ঘোষণা দিলেন। কোলকাতা থেকে সেদিন সন্ধ্যায় দিল্লী ফেরার আগেই ইর্ষ্টান কমান্ডের এঙঈ GOC (General Officer Commanding) Genarel Arora -কে দিল্লীর সেনাসদর থেকে হুকুম দেয়া হল পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে সর্বাত্মক হামলা চালাবার জন্য।

জেনারেল অরোরার অধিনে দেয়া হল ৩টি স্বয়ংসম্পূর্ণ আর্মি কোর। ২য়, ৩৩শ এবং ৪র্থ কোর। এছাড়াও দেয়া হল ‘কম্যুনিকেশন জোন হেডকোয়াটার্স’ আরো একটি ভ্রাম্যমান আর্মি ইউনিট। এছাড়া ২য় কোরের অধিনে দেয়া হয়েছিল অতিরিক্ত একটি মিডিয়াম আর্মাড রেজিমেন্ট এবং একটি লাইট আর্মাড রেজিমেন্ট।

এই কোরের কমান্ডার ছিলেন Lt. Gen T.N.Raina হেডকোয়াটার্স কৃষ্ণনগর। এই কোরের অধিনে দেয়া হয়েছিল অতিরিক্ত আরো একটি মিডিয়াম আর্টিলারী রেজিমেন্ট ও একটি ইঞ্জিনিয়ারস এর ব্রিজিং ইউনিট।

৩৩ কোরের কমান্ডার ছিলেন Lt. Gen M.L.Thapa. হেডকোয়াটার্স শিলিগুরী। এই কোরের অধিনে দেয়া হয়েছিল অতিরিক্ত একটি লাইট আর্মাড রেজিমেন্ট, একটি মিডিয়াম আর্টিলারী রেজিমেন্ট এবং একটি ইঞ্জিনিয়ারস এর ব্রিজিং ইউনিট।

১০১ কম্যুনিকেশন জোনের কমান্ডার ছিলেন প্রথমদিকে Lt.Gen.Gill পরে Lt.Gen.Nagra -কে তার স্থলাভিষিক্ত করা হয়। হেডকোয়াটার্স গৌহাটি। এই ফর্মেশনের ৪র্থ কোরের হেডকোয়াটার্স ছিল আগরতলায়। কোর কমান্ডার ছিলেন Lt.Gen. Sagat Singh. এই কোরের অধিনে অতিরিক্তভাবে দেয়া হয় একটি মিডিয়াম আর্টিলারী রেজিমেন্ট এবং দু’টো লাইট আর্মাড রেজিমেন্ট।

সব মিলিয়ে পূর্ব রনাঙ্গনে ভারতীয় সৈন্যসংখ্যা ছিল ৫ লক্ষেরও বেশি। তার সাথে ছিল পর্যাপ্ত পরিমাণের রণসম্ভার। সেই সময় পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে অবস্থিত প্রায় ১ লক্ষ খানসেনার বিরুদ্ধে যুদ্ধ করার জন্য এ ধরণের বিশাল বাহিনী মোতায়ন করার প্রয়োজন ছিল না।

এই বিশাল সৈন্য সমাবেশ ঘটানো হয়েছিল গণচীনের তরফ থেকে যদি কোন সামরিক পদক্ষেপ নেয়া হয় তার মোকাবেলা করার লক্ষ্যেই।

Thus, with adequate Air and Naval Coverage and assisted with about 200,000 Freedom Fighters, this huge Indian forces attacked the Eastern wing, from all sectors at the same time. In all these sectors, the freedom fighters were blowing up bridges, creating obstacles for the Pakistani and assisting the Indian Army to use the main routes for their advancing forces.

*Due to the bridge heads created, it was possible for the Indian allied forces to easily move towards Dhaka by penetrating the enemy's defense*.

C in C, of the Bangladesh forces, Colonel Osmani was completely ignored and kept in the dark during this important phase of the war.

Indian Army strategy was to break the enemy line of defense as quickly as possible, cut off the path of their withdrawal, split them into small parts, and compel the fall of Dhaka and force the Pakistani Army to surrender.

In East Pakistan, their army was forced to surrender within 12-days. As, in this front the massive Indian Army 6-7 times stronger and was immensely aided by the Freedom Fighters. The non-cooperation of the people of Bangladesh and the courageous guerrilla activities of the freedom fighters completely destroyed the war effort and morale of the Pakistan army. Among other reasons, this was the main reason for which the Pakistan Army was forced to surrender after a humiliating defeat in very brief war.

Thus, on December 16, 1971, Bangladesh achieved independence as a result of surrender of the Pakistani Armed Forces.

যাই হোক, প্রয়োজনীয় Air ও Naval Cover এবং প্রায় দুই লক্ষ মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের সাথে বিশাল ভারতীয় বাহিনী একই সময়ে সব সেক্টর থেকে আক্রমণ চালালো। সব সেক্টরেই ভারতীয় বাহিনীর অগ্রসর হওয়ার জন্য রাস্তা করে ব্রিজহেড তৈরী করে দিচ্ছিল মুক্তিবাহিনীর বীর মুক্তিযোদ্ধারাই।

ঐ সমস্ত ব্রিজহেড তৈরী করা সম্ভব হয়েছিল বলেই অতি সহজেই শত্রুপক্ষের ডিফেন্স ভেদ করে ঢাকা অভিমুখে তরিৎ গতিতে এগিয়ে যেতে পেরেছিল ভারতীয় মিত্র বাহিনী।

যুদ্ধের এই গুরুত্বপূর্ণ পর্যায়ে কর্নেল ওসমানীকে সম্পূর্ণরূপে পাশ কাটিয়ে চলেছিল ভারতীয় সেনাকমান্ড। ভারতীয় সেনা বাহিনীর স্ট্রাটেজি ছিল যত তাড়াতাড়ি সম্ভব শত্রুপক্ষের ডিফেন্স লাইন ভেদ করে তাদের Withdrawal এর পথ Cut Off করে তাদেরকে ছোট ছোট অংশে বিভক্ত করে পরাজিত করে ঢাকা অবরোধ করা এবং পাক বাহিনীকে সারেন্ডার করতে বাধ্য করা।

বাংলাদেশে অবস্থিত পাক বাহিনী তাদের চেয়ে সংখ্যায় ৬-৭গুন বড় ভারতীয় বাহিনী এবং মুক্তিফৌজের প্রচন্ড আক্রমণের মুখে মাত্র ১২ দিনের যুদ্ধে অতি করুণ অবস্থায় আত্মসমর্পণ করতে বাধ্য হয়। বাংলাদেশের জনগণের অসহযোগিতা এবং মুক্তি বাহিনীর দুঃসাহসিক গেরিলা তৎপরতা পাক বাহিনীর যুদ্ধস্পৃহা এবং মনোবল একদম নষ্ট করে দিয়েছিল। অন্য সব কারণের মধ্যে এটাই ছিল প্রধান কারণ যার জন্য পাকবাহিনীকে অতি অল্পসময়ের যুদ্ধে শোচনীয়ভাবে পরাজয় বরণ করে নিয়ে আত্মসমর্পণ করতে হয়েছিল।

এভাবেই ১৬ই ডিসেম্বর ১৯৭১ সালে পাক বাহিনীর আত্মসমর্পণের ফলে স্বাধীনতা লাভ করে বাংলাদেশ।


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## Banglar Bir

*Fall of Dhaka on 16 December 1971/Maheen Usmani*
*



**Published on Dec 26, 2009
They say that nations who don't learn from their history are condemned to keep repeating their mistakes. The reasons for the tragic loss of East Pakistan on 16 December 1971 have been distorted, and brushed under the carpet for far too long. We deserve to know the truth about why Bengalis felt oppressed, alienated, disenfranchised and felt they had no option but to cut loose from Pakistan. Let's take a look at the factors which led to the separation of East Pakistan in 1971, and the emergence of Bangladesh.

*


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## Banglar Bir

*Lt. Gen. Jagjit Singh Aurora's interview (1987)*
*



**Published on Dec 15, 2015*

*The Fall of Dhaka*




Published on Mar 12, 2017
Following the Partition of India in 1947, Dhaka became the capital of East Pakistan. 
The 1970 Bhola cyclone devastated much of the region, killed an estimated 500,000 people. The arrest of the Bengali liberation politician Sheikh Mujibur Rahman would also then spark powerful intensive political riots protests and violence again

*Reasons for East Pakistan Debacle 1971 | History of Pakistan*
*



**Published on Apr 27, 2016
-What was the role of Bengali's in creation of Pakistan?
-Why East Pakistan separated from Pakistan.
-Were people of East Pakistan treated fairly by politicians of West Pakistan?
-Bengali's played vital role in making of Pakistan.
-Role of Sheikh Mujeeb-ur-Rehhman and Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto

*


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## Banglar Bir

*কিলো ফ্লাইট....
Kilo Flight-1971*
বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর প্রথম হেলিকপ্টার Aérospatiale Alouette III. এর দুইপাশে দুইটি রকেট পড এবং দরজায় হেভি মেশিনগান বসানো হয়েছিলো।


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## Banglar Bir

*Real story of 1971 war by historical facts between pakistan and india by Hamid bashani*




Published on Oct 16, 2015
Real story of 1971 war by historical facts between pakistan and india Hamid bashani


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## Banglar Bir

*Dhaka war 1971*




Published on May 12, 2012
Some glimpses of the shameful attitude of the nation as a whole and particularly of the armed forces of Pakistan during the December war of 1971. A fight that should have gone to the last man last round instead was given up at the behest of some fat and flabby generals who were at the time masquerading as the rulers of Pakistan.


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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB* 


*DHC-3 Otter of Kilo Flight*

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর সর্বপ্রথম রুপান্তরিত যুদ্ধবিমান/গ্রাউন্ড এট্যাক বিমান।১৯৭১ সালে মহান মুক্তিযুদ্ধকালে তৎকালীন ভারতীয় সরকার বাংলাদেশকে এরকম একটি বিমান উপহার হিসেবে প্রদান করে।

এগুলোকে পরে ভারতীয় বিমানবাহিনীর সহায়তায় যুদ্ধবিমানে রুপান্তরিত করা হয়।এর ট্রাসের নিচে লাগানো হয় ২ টি রকেট পড যার প্রতিটি ৭ টি করে রকেট বহন করতো।বিমানের নিচের পাটাতন খুলে লাগানো হয়েছিলো ১০ পাউন্ড ওজনের ৬ টি ফ্রিফল বোমা।বিমানের দরজা খুলে সেখানে বসানো হয়েছিলো মেশিনগান যা একজন অপারেটর অপারেট করতে পারতেন।এই বিমান মুক্তিযুদ্ধকালে বেশ কয়েকটি সফল এয়ার স্ট্রাইক পরিচালনা করে।

এই বিমানের হাত ধরেই আজকের "বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী"


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## Banglar Bir

*Liberation War would have been much more Fierce had the Indian's NOT opened their Borders.
ভারত সীমান্ত খুলে না দিলে পাক বাহিনীর বিরুদ্ধে প্রতিরোধ যুদ্ধ আরো তীব্রতর হতো!*




Sat, August 12

মেজর জেনারেল আ ল ম ফজলুর রহমান (অব.):
Major General A L M Fazlur Rahman(Retd)
ණ☛ যা*রা বলে ভারতের সাহায্য ছাড়া এবং ভারতের মাটিতে না গিয়ে আমরা দেশ স্বাধীন করতে পারতাম না। এই কথা যারা বলে তারা মুক্তিযুদ্ধের শেষ পরিনতি সম্বন্ধে সঠিক কথা বলেন না। তাই যদি হবে তাহলে কাদের সিদ্দিকী কি ভাবে টাঙ্গাইলের মাটিতে দাঁড়িয়ে ৯ মাস মুক্তিযুদ্ধ করলেন তাঁর বিশাল বাহিনী নিয়ে। *

ණ☛* ভারত আমাদের জন্য তাদের সীমান্ত খুলে না দিলে পাকিস্তানি বাহিনীর বিরুদ্ধে আমাদের প্রতিরোধ যুদ্ধ আরো তীব্রতর হতো। ভারত তার প্রয়োজনে সীমান্ত খুলে দিয়েছিলো। এটা এখন সবার কাছে পরিষ্কার। *

ණ☛ *আমরা কাদের সিদ্দিকীর মতো মধুপুরের জঙ্গল, সুন্দরবন, পার্বত্য চট্টগ্রামের পাহাড়ী অঞ্চল, গারোপাহাড়, সুনামগঞ্জ অঞ্চলের হাওর, দেশের খাল, বিল, নদী, চরাঞ্চল, সিলেটের চা বাগান, দেশের প্রতিটি শহর, বন্দর এবং প্রতিটি গ্রামকে প্রতিরোধ যুদ্ধের ঘাটতি হিসাবে গড়ে তুলতাম। দেশ স্বাধীন হতোই। এটাই ছিলো মহান মুক্তিযুদ্ধের অমোঘ পরিনতি। *

লেখক: কলামিস্ট ও প্রাক্তন মহাপরিচালক বিডিআর।
http://newsorgan24.com/detail/27172

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## Banglar Bir

*Why Do Bangladeshis Seem Indifferent to Partition?*





The author’s grandparents sitting with some of their children, including his mother age 9, second from right, in the courtyard of their East Pakistan home in the early 1950s.
COURTESY OF K. ANIS AHMED
*By K. ANIS AHMED
AUGUST 16, 2017*
DHAKA, Bangladesh — In 1948, a year after the partition of India, my maternal grandparents moved from Calcutta to Dhaka, crossing from West Bengal in India to East Bengal, or East Pakistan — now Bangladesh. There, they built a tin-shed house in the new neighborhood of Dhanmondi, known before only for its paddy fields (_dhan_). At the time, the area was so desolate that every night my grandfather would fire his double-barreled shotgun to ward off foxes and thieves.

Two years later, he built the first brick and concrete house in the area, which soon enough filled up with one- and two-story bungalows, each with its own lawn. His house looked no different from the others, but it harbored a surprising secret: He had built it with a foundation that could support seven stories. As far back as 1950, he had told my grandmother, “A day will come when you won’t be able to see anything but people in this city.” And indeed, while at some point other lovely houses in the neighborhood had to be torn down in order to be built back up taller, his children just added new floors.

When I was growing up, such stories struck me as nothing more than proof that my grandfather was eccentric and a visionary. But how we fashion our family history also reflects our collective memory. And when years later I began to examine, for a research project in comparative literature, why Bangladeshis relate to partition differently than do Indians and Pakistanis, I found clues to an answer right in my family lore.





A portrait of the author’s grandparents, c. 1950.
COURTESY OF K. ANIS AHMED
Most Indians and Pakistanis look at partition as an enduring tragedy and with an overwhelming sense of sadness. The event is lamented for its tremendous violence and its deaths, and marks the loss of territory and homes. For Indians and Pakistanis, it also represents the abrupt truncating of a sense of self. British colonialism had hoped to unite regional groups from Afghanistan to the edge of Burma under a broader national, perhaps civilizational, “Indian” identity. The advent of a separate state for Pakistan announced that project’s defeat.

In contrast, Bangladeshis’ response to partition can seem to verge on indifference. For us, Aug. 15, the day of India’s independence in 1947, represents first and foremost the brutal murder many years later, in 1975, of our own founding father, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. Our seminal historical event is the Liberation War of 1971, during which up to three million Bangladeshis may have been killed by the Pakistani Army and its local collaborators as they tried to crush the movement for independence.

Some argue that the enormity of that later war suborned the memory of the earlier split. This may be true, but it is not the entire story.

The Liberation War of Bangladesh is indeed the most momentous event for the people who were once East Bengalis, then East Pakistanis and now Bangladeshis: It conferred on us the pride of standing as an equal among the nations of the world. Other subnational groups in both India and Pakistan also chafed at the gross inequities committed by an imposing federated state. Yet only in Bangladesh did rebellion against such injustice and the idea of a distinct cultural identity — in this case, Bengali and secular — lead to a new nation.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/...mwrsm=Facebook&referer=http://m.facebook.com/


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## KRAIT

We assisted Mukti Bahini to attain independence. It was great strategic victory for India and new life for Bangladeshis.

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## Banglar Bir

KRAIT said:


> *We assisted Mukti Bahini to attain independence*. It was great strategic victory for India and new life for Bangladeshis.


Thanks for finally admitting the real truth and reasons were also explained as the "Strategic victory for India.

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## Banglar Bir

Lt. Col. (Rtd) Mohammad Ziauddin Ahmed; B.U.


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## KRAIT

Banglar Bir said:


> Thanks for finally admitting the real truth and reasons were also explained as the "Strategic victory for India.


We already admit it. We assisted Mukti Bahini and when war loomed on us, we entered in East Pakistan defeating Pakistani Army.


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## Homo Sapiens

Banglar Bir said:


> Thanks for finally admitting the real truth and reasons were also explained as the "Strategic victory for India.


After 25th March, 1971, any country's help both military and non military to Mukti Bahini was welcome including the Indian one.I don't think you have a Bangladeshi point of view regarding the 1971 war.Only a parson with Pakistani point of view will regard Indian help in 1971 with a contempt.Are you one of them?


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## Banglar Bir

Doyalbaba said:


> .Only a parson with Pakistani point of view will regard Indian help in 1971 with a contempt.Are you one of them?


You haven't the faintest real facts about our Glorious war of Liberation. Asking if you were a FF would be absurd, were you even born in 1971?


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## Banglar Bir

*মূলধারা বাংলাদেশ* 
*আগষ্ট হত্যাকান্ড ও 'এক বাক্সে সকল ডিম না রাখার' ভারতীয় নীতি

১৯৭৫ সালে মরহুম শেখ মুজিবুর রহমানের নির্মম হত্যার পর ভারতের মন্তব্য ছিল ‘It’s an internal matter’। ইত্তেফাক জানায় ঢাকায় নিযুক্ত ভারতীয় হাই কমিশনার সময় সেন আগস্ট হত্যাকাণ্ডের কয়েকদিন পরেই রাষ্ট্রপতি খন্দকার মোশতাক আহমেদের সাথে হাসি মুখে সাক্ষাৎকার করে বলেন ‘ঢাকা-দিল্লী মৈত্রী ও সহযোগিতা অক্ষুণ্ণ থাকিবে‘। অর্থাৎ, বাংলাদেশের আভ্যন্তরীণ রাজনৈতিক পটপরিবর্তনের সাথে সাথে খাপ খাইয়ে নিয়ে নিজের দেশের স্বার্থকে যথা সম্ভব রক্ষা করে চলা দক্ষ কূটনীতির কাজ। ভারত এটাই করে আসছে। সেজন্য তাঁরা এই পক্ষ-ঐ পক্ষ সব পক্ষেই কাজ করে।

ইতিহাস আমাদের জানায় যে বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামেও ভারত এই কৌশল নেয় মুজিব বাহিনী তৈরির মাধ্যমে। মুজিব বাহিনী স্বাধীনতার ইতিহাসে সবচেয়ে বিতর্কিত একটি অধ্যায়। এই বিষয়ে যুদ্ধকালীন অস্থায়ী সরকারের প্রধানমন্ত্রী তাজউদ্দিন আহমেদের অন্যতম উপদেষ্টা ব্যারিস্টার আমিরুল ইসলাম জানাচ্ছেন;

”ভারতের ২টি স্থানে মুজিব বাহিনীর সদস্যদের প্রশিক্ষণ দেয়া হয়। জেনারেল উবান এই প্রশিক্ষণের দায়িত্বে ছিলেন। আজ পর্যন্ত আমি বুঝে উঠতে পারছি না মুজিব বাহিনী নামে এই আলাদা বাহিনীর কোন প্রয়োজন ছিল কি না। তবে যদ্দুর জেনেছি ভারতীয় গোয়েন্দা সংস্থা “র”-এর সাথে শেখ মনির লবি ছিল। তাকে বুঝানো হয় যুদ্ধ দীর্ঘস্থায়ী হলে বর্তমান আওয়ামী লীগ নেতৃত্ব সে সময় নেতৃত্ব দিতে অসমর্থ হবে। অথবা এই নেতৃত্ব কোন প্রকার আপোষ করতে পারে। তাকে আরো বুঝানো হয়, যে যুব শক্তি স্বাধীনতার উন্মেষ ঘটিয়েছে, তারাই কেবলমাত্র সঠিক নেতৃত্ব দিতে সক্ষম হবে। প্রয়োজনে এই নেতৃত্ব আওয়ামী লীগ নেতৃত্বের বিকল্প হিসেবে কাজ করতে পারবে। তাছাড়া বাংলাদেশ স্বাধীন হলে নব্যশক্তি চীন বা নকশাল পন্থীদের স্বাধীন ও সার্বভৌম সরকার প্রতিষ্ঠায় সহযোগিতা করবে। পরে আরো জেনেছি, ভারত সরকার এই সিদ্ধান্ত নেয় যার অর্থ হলোঃ ‘এক বাক্সে সকল ডিম না রাখা’।”

অর্থাৎ, স্বাধীন হওয়ার আগেই আমাদের মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের মধ্যে সন্দেহের বীজ রোপিত হয়। স্বাধীনতা পরবর্তী সময়ে এই বীজই জাতীয় দ্বিধাবিভক্তির সূত্রপাত করে,যা থেকে আমরা আজও বের হতে পারিনি। ভারতের জন্য এখানে হারানোর কিছু নেই।নিজের মধ্যে ভাতৃঘাতি সংঘাত করে আমাদের জাতীয় যুবশক্তির অপচয় ঘটেছে, খুন হয়েছে শত শত মুক্তিযোদ্ধা বাংলাদেশী প্রাণ।*

(উদৃত, মূলধারা বাংলাদেশ, ‘এক ঝুড়িতে সব ডিম না রাখা’: ‘র’ এর কৌশলের সেকাল-একাল, ২৩ মার্চ ২০১৭, http://www.muldharabd.com/?p=2233)


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## Banglar Bir

*আজ বীরশ্রেষ্ঠ ফ্লাইট ল্যাফটেনেন্ট মতিউর রহমানের ৪৬ তম মৃত্যুবার্ষিকী। ১৯৭১ সালের এই দিনে মতিউর রহমান পাকিস্তান বিমানবাহিনীর একটি Lockheed T-33 বিমান ছিনতাই করে মুক্তিযুদ্ধে অংশ নেয়ার জন্য আসছিলেন।কিন্তু পথিমধ্যে পাকিস্তানী পাইলট মিনহাজ রশিদের সাথে হাতাহাতি হওয়ায় বিমানের নিয়ন্ত্রন হারায় এবং ভারতে বিদ্ধস্ত হয়।

মতিউর রহমান স্যারকে নিয়ে একটি লেখা খুব ভালো লাগবে আপনাদের-

বীরশ্রেষ্ঠ মতিউর রহমানের দাফন হয়েছিলো পাকিস্তান করাচির মাসরুর বেসের চতুর্থ শ্রেণীর কবরস্থানে।
কবরের সামনে লেখা ছিলো- 'ইধার শো রাহা হ্যায় এক গাদ্দার'। প্রায় ৩৫ বছর ওখানে ছিলেন জাতির শ্রেষ্ঠ সন্তান। জানি এগুলো আজ সবাইকে তেমন ভাবে স্পর্শ করে না। আমরা এখন কুল ডুড। আমরা রাজাকার বন্দনা করে কোন এক আজব স্মার্টনেস ফ্রতিফলিত করতে চাই।

ডুড, দেশবিরোধীদের সাপোর্ট করা স্মার্টনেস না। সিনেপ্লেক্সে যখন জাতীয় সঙ্গীত হয় তখন ভাব নিয়া বইসা থাকা পার্ট না। কিংবা শ্রদ্ধা ভরে উঠে দাড়ানো কাউ কে দেখে কটু দৃষ্টি কিংবা হেলার দৃষ্টি দেয়াও স্মার্টনেস না। বীরশ্রেষ্ঠ দের ভুলে যাওয়া, তাদের অবদান অস্বীকার করা স্মার্টনেস না। বদর বাহিনীর কমান্ডারের জন্য মিন মিন করা স্মার্টনেস না।

টি-৩৩ বিমান উড়িয়ে নিয়া আসা বীরশ্রেষ্ঠ ফ্লাইট লেফটেন্যান্ট মতিউর রহমান কে ধাওয়া করছিলো চারটি জঙ্গি বিমান। দ্যাট ওয়াজ এপিক। কুলনেস বুঝতে চাও ? হাবিবুর রহমান বীর বিক্রম পাকিস্তান নৌবাহিনীর দুই জাহাজ "এস.ইউ. ইঞ্জিনিয়ারস্ এল সি- ৩" এবং "এস টি রজার" ডুবায় দেয় চরে আটকাইয়া, দ্যাট ওয়াজ কুল ম্যান। তারপর হাবিব রে সবাই ডাকতো 'জাহাজমারা হাবিব।'
আরো কুলনেস এর গল্প লাগবে?

মেজর জেনেরেল খালেদ মোশাররফের নির্দেশনা ছিলো হোটেল ইন্টার কন্টিনেন্টালে বিদেশী সাংবাদিক ও অতিথিরা থাকাকালীন ঢাকা শহরের পরিস্থিতি যে শান্ত নয় এবং এখানে যুদ্ধ চলছে তা বোঝানোর জন্য শহরের আশে-পাশে কিছু গ্রেনেড ও গুলি ছুড়তে হবে; কিন্তু দু:সাহসী এই তরুণেরা ঢাকায় এসে ৯ জুন তারিখে সরাসরি হোটেল ইন্টারকন্টিনেন্টালে গ্রেনেড হামলা করেন ছিলো অত্যন্ত ঝুকিপূর্ণ ও অচিন্তনীয় কাজ। সন্ধ্যায় বিবিসির খবর থেকে খালেদ মোশাররফ এই অপারেশনের কথা জানতে পেরে বলেন, 'দিজ অল আর ক্র্যাক পিপল! বললাম, ঢাকার বাইরে বিস্ফোরণ ঘটাতে আর ওরা হোটেল ইন্টারকন্টিনেন্টালেই বিস্ফোরণ ঘটিয়ে এসেছে।' তিনিই প্রথম এই দলটিকে "ক্র্যাক" আখ্যা দেন; যা থেকে পরবর্তীতে এই প্লাটুনটি "ক্র্যাক প্লাটুন" নামে পরিচিত হয়।

দ্যাট ওয়াজ ক্রাক ম্যান।
আজকের এই পার্টে তুমি কুল ডুড না ব্রো, তুমি একটা এসহোল। যে নিজের ইতিহাসে স্মার্টনেস পায় না।
শুভ জন্মদিন বীরশ্রেষ্ঠ মতিউর রহমান। মে বি আমি স্মার্ট না, কুল না। তবুও স্বাধীনতা যা তোমরা এনে দিয়েছো নিজের জীবন দিয়ে, নিরপেক্ষতার মোড়কে তা ব্যালেন্স করতে যাবো না কোনদিন। টি-৩৩ বিমান নিয়ে বাংলাদেশে ছুটে আসা যুদ্ধ করার জন্য, পিছনে ফাইটার জেট ধাওয়া করছে তা জেনেও.... আমাকে গর্বিত করে।
তোমার জন্য আজ কোন প্রথম পাতায় নিউজ পাইনি। কোন শোক মিছিল হয়নি। ভুলে গেছি সব আজ আমরা। তবুও 'ক্ষ্যাত' 'ইনট্রোভার্ট' এই সিডাটিভ এর ওয়ালে রাখলাম তোমাকে।
আমরা তার আত্মার মাগফিরাত কামনা করি।আল্লাহ তাকে জান্নাত নসিব করুন।
আমিন*


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## Banglar Bir

2:00 AM, March 26, 2017 / LAST MODIFIED: 12:00 AM, March 26, 2017
*THE TANGAIL LANDINGS A signal for victory*




Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and Kader Siddiqui
Dr. Nuran Nabi

I travelled to Tura, the capital of Meghalaya, three times during the war as a representative of Tangail Mukti Bahini to bring arms and ammunitions. Brigadier Sanat Singh was my contact and host. He arranged my meetings with Gen Gill and Brigadier Klair during my first and second visit in June and July, respectively. During my third visit, I had the honour to meet Lt. Gen. Aurora, the GOC of the Eastern Command of the Indian Army, at the office of Gen Gill in Tura on November 7th. 

In the meeting, Gen Aurora indicated that Indian paratroopers could be dropped in Tangail by the end of November or early December. He asked me to return to Tangail as soon as possible and make arrangements to secure an area so that Indian paratroopers could land safely. He also disclosed that several officers of the Indian Army would come to the liberated zones in Tangail and stay with us. We would be responsible for their security.

At the end of the meeting, General Aurora warned me that under no circumstance, should I share this information with anyone other than Kader Siddiqui. He further mentioned that I was the first Bangladeshi person privy to the details of this top secret military operation. He reminded me repeatedly of the importance of this message and asked me to comply accordingly. 

As we shook hands to say goodbye, General Aurora mentioned, “This is the Liberation War of your motherland. I am certain you will be able to make good on your promise to your country. I hope to see you in Tangail.”
I evaluated my meeting with Gen Aurora as a signal for our impending victory.
*
The guerrillas of Dhaka in 1971*
Accordingly, an Indian officer crossed the border and arrived in Tangail. He was perhaps the first Indian Army officer to infiltrate more than one hundred miles into the Bangladesh free zone before the war started. I met him on 3 December in Baroiotol, a village on the Dhaleshwari River near Bhuapur. He introduced himself as Peter and we exchanged passwords. I came to know that he was a Captain in the Indian Army and that he was a Bengali from Kolkata. He had arrived in the free zone just a night earlier, escorted by five freedom fighters, three of whom were trained wireless set operators. His mission was to contact Kader (Tiger) Siddiqui and select the strategic locations for the landing of the Indian paratroopers. All relevant information was to be sent back to his controlling headquarter.

The next morning, Kader left to oversee the massive preparation for the impending attacks. On December 7, Peter and I left the boat and camped by the side of Nikrail School. Kader showed up in our camp. He formally put me in charge of communication regarding all subsequent attacks and placed one hundred fifty freedom fighters under my command. My job was to coordinate communication among the different companies, to maintain constant contact with Kader, and to help Peter in his work. Kader's presence and the news of India's recognition of Bangladesh created a feverish excitement amongst the people. After the evening prayers, thousands of people assembled at the school ground. Kader gave a passionate speech. 




Captain Peter was deeply impressed by the large turnout, and the support and enthusiasm of the population. We left Nikrail to move towards Ghatail. We reached West of Ghatail by early morning on December 9 and set up a temporary camp at the house of Abdul Halim Chowdhury. With Madhupur captured, the road for the Indian Army to move from Jamalpur to Tangail was clear and Captain Peter relayed this information to his command.

On the morning of December 10, Brigadier Kader Khan's troops, after their defeat at Jamalpur and Mymensingh, were fleeing towards Dhaka. 

That afternoon (December 11), Peter received a coded message from his headquarters and burst into joy. He told me that the paratroopers would be landing shortly. I, then, sent a message to Kader which simply said, “They are coming,” alerting the commanders of the area.

At five in the afternoon, two Indian Air Force MiGs flew very low over Ghatail and Kalihati. 

We did not know which dropping area they would choose as the MiGs circled a very wide area. Then we saw the cargo planes, flying above the circling MiGs. Suddenly, the two MiGs shot up towards the stratosphere as the cargo planes slowly descended. They were Indian Air Force transport planes, AN-12, C-119, and CD-3. The planes descended in waves. As they approached their lowest point of descent, they came to a slow hover. 

It was as if they were floating in the air. Suddenly their bellies opened and parachutes began dropping.

The southeastern sky, as far as we could see, was covered with what looked like big balloons. On a sunny and breezy afternoon, the blue sky of Tangail was brilliantly recomposed with a spectacular view created by the paratroopers. For those who were lucky enough to watch, it was an unforgettable moment.

At eight in the evening, Kader stopped by our camp. He reassured Peter that the landing was successful and that the paratroopers had made contact with the Mukti Bahini. Kader told us that the highways connecting Madhupur, Gopalpur, Kalihati, and Sholakura were now all under the full control of the Mukti Bahini. The fleeing Pakistani soldiers had been attacked from various positions on the Tangail-Madhupur Highway. About twenty vehicles of the Pakistan Army had been destroyed and more than fifty soldiers had been killed. The Mukti Bahini had been able to capture a number of vehicles as well as a huge quantity of arms and explosives.

At five in the morning, Kader headed out with his troops to Tangail along the Mymensingh-Tangail Highway. Peter and I were also with him. We were welcomed at the liberated Kalihati headquarters by Commanders Nabi Newaz, Riaz, and Samad Gama. They reported that their forces were in full control of the Kalihati Police Station and that Tangail Highway was in our control as far south as Sholakura.

We then moved to Sholakura but were halted at the Sholakura Bridge by enemy fire. At this time, several volunteers arrived escorting a contingent of paratroopers. Behind the force of last night's gusty winds, these paratroopers drifted away from their targeted position and thus they could not join in the battle fought the previous night. Captain Peter was delighted to meet his colleagues, amongst whom was a young Captain.

Captain Peter then left us and joined up with the paratroopers and we resumed our advance to Phultala. Kader attacked Phultala with mortars and then sent about 300 fighters to take the village. By afternoon, the enemy fled and Phultala came under our control.

We learnt through radio contact that Brigadier Klair of the Indian Army was on his way to Tangail. I, with a team of freedom fighters, left for Pungli Bridge to meet the Indian paratroopers. As we walked on the road to Pungli Bridge, I came face to face with the bone-chilling scenes of last night's battle. Corpses of hundreds of enemy soldiers littered the road; the bodies sprawled from one side of the bridge to the other. We walked with care so as not to step on the dead. All around was a mass of twisted mangled bodies and body parts. Never in my life had I seen so much death in one place.

It was about three in the afternoon. When Brigadier Klair and Kader Siddiqui stepped down, five hundred freedom fighters and paratroopers received them with thundering applause. 

Brigadier Klair came over to me and thanked me for the help and cooperation extended by the Mukti Bahini.

From the Indian officers I learnt that in the battle around Pungli Bridge, three hundred-seventy Pakistan soldiers were killed and more than one hundred injured. Six Indian paratroopers achieved martyrdom and 15 were injured. Over 600 Pakistani troops were taken prisoner.

After the meeting, Kader and Klair decided to move on to Tangail that same evening. Most of the town of Tangail was in the hands of the Mukti Bahini. However, a small contingent of Pakistani forces at the new Tangail town garrison had not yet surrendered though it was cut off from all sides. An attack was launched at four o'clock that evening with about 200 Freedom Fighters, supported by mortar and machine gun fire. Very soon, the enemy guns were silenced and the last remnants of resistance at Tangail ceased.

By that evening, the whole town stood liberated. By now, tens of thousands of people had begun assembling around the Awami League premises to see Kader and to celebrate our victory. Brigadier Klair then came over to join in the celebrations.

This for me was the last major action of the war. The Pakistan army was on the run and its eventual defeat was now simply a matter of time.

Reflecting on the War, I think Captain Peter's infiltration deep inside the enemy territory reveals a well thought out deception plan that has not been fully appreciated by analysts.

As Indian forces were not concentrated here, the Pakistani leadership presumed that no major attack was envisaged by the Indian Army through this sector and so an elderly Pakistani officer, Brigadier Kader Khan was left in charge. In my view, this was an intentional move by General Aurora to mislead the enemy into thinking that the Indian Army advance into Dhaka would take place through the Comilla border.

Meanwhile, on December 11th, General Jacob, the Chief of Staff of the Indian Army, arranged a press conference in Calcutta. He declared to the national and international press that the night before, Indian paratroopers had landed surrounding Dhaka city. He claimed that Dhaka was then a besieged city, waiting to fall any day.

On the insistence of reporters, General Jacob reluctantly disclosed that a division of joint forces had surrounded Dhaka city.

However, in reality, the division he referred to was actually only single battalion of paratroopers who had landed, not in Dhaka, but rather some seventy miles to the north, in Tangail district.

Pakistani command was distressed by this bluff. It created a tremendous amount of psychological pressure on General Niazi to surrender. The joint force strategy worked just as planned.

This Para drop at Tangail caught the Pakistani leadership on the wrong foot and hastened the end of the war. For Brigadier Khan, this was the second surrender of his military carrier. During our interrogation, we came to know that he had also surrendered to the Indian Army on the West Pakistan border during the India-Pakistan War of 1965.

The inclusion of the Tangail Mukti Bahini in the original war strategy to conquer Dhaka was an important historical event. One of the most significant components to this plan was the landing of a battalion of paratroopers in Tangail. 

Arguably, I was the first person in Bangladesh to have had the privilege of knowing this vital secret plan.

I was lucky and honoured to be associated with such a clever war strategy. It was also a great testament to Kader as well as to the Tangail Mukti Bahini.

The writer is a Freedom Fighter and scientist.

Reprinted from Independence Day Special 2015


----------



## Banglar Bir

*উনিশ শ’ একাত্তর -৭ 1971-Part 7*
মতামত ডেস্ক
August 23, 2017




*সাইদুল ইসলাম*
*ঢাকা
২৫ মার্চ সকাল সাড়ে আটটায় ব্রিগেডিয়ার মজুমদার জয়দেবপুরে রওয়ানা হবার সময় ক্যাপ্টেন আমীন আহমেদ চৌধুরীকে বললেন, “তোমার এখানে থাকার দরকার নেই। তুমি চট্টগ্রামে ফিরে যাও। আর কর্নেল চৌধুরিকে বল, লাল ফ্ল্যাগ উড়িয়ে দিতে।” আমীন কথাটা ঠিক মত বুঝতে পারলেন না। তিনি সকালে মজুমদারের সাথে দেখা করতে লেঃ কর্নেল মোহিতের বাসায় এসেছিলেন তাঁর মামার গাড়িতে চেপে। ইএমই কোরের অফিসার লেঃ কর্নেল মোহিতের বাড়ি সিলেট। মজুমদারের সাথে তাঁর পারিবারিক পর্যায়ের জানাশোনা। মিসেস মোহিত তাদের নাস্তা না খাইয়ে ছাড়লেন না। নাস্তার সময় খুব বেশি আলোচনা হয়নি। হঠাৎ করে লাল ফ্ল্যাগের কথায় একটু হকচকিয়ে গেলেন তিনি।

ষষ্ঠ পর্বটি পড়তে এই লিঙ্কে “উনিশ শ’ একাত্তর -৬” ক্লিক করুন।

পঞ্চম পর্বটি পড়তে এই লিঙ্কে “উনিশ শ’ একাত্তর -৫” ক্লিক করুন।

চতুর্থ পর্বটি পড়তে এই লিঙ্কে “উনিশ শ’ একাত্তর -৪” ক্লিক করুন।

তৃতীয় পর্বটি পড়তে এই লিঙ্কে “উনিশ শ’ একাত্তর -৩” ক্লিক করুন।

দ্বিতীয় পর্বটি পড়তে এই লিঙ্কে “উনিশ শ’ একাত্তর -২” ক্লিক করুন।

প্রথম পর্বটি পড়তে এই লিঙ্কে “উনিশ শ’ একাত্তর -১” ক্লিক করুন।

কাল হেলিকপ্টারে ওঠার সময় মনে হলো, কিউএমজি জেনারেল জাঞ্জুয়া, মজুমদারকে একটু ধাক্কা দিয়ে সিটে বসিয়ে দিলেন। সেই থেকে মজুমদারকে একটু বিচলিত লাগছিলো। 

হেলিকপ্টার থেকে নামার পর প্রথমে মজুমদারের সাথে তাঁর কোর্সমেট জাহাঞ্জেব আরবাবের বাসায় উঠেছিলেন আমীন। বাসার ভেতরের লনে, তাঁবু খাটিয়ে অনেক বেসামরিক লোককে থাকতে দেখে একটা খটকা লেগেছিলো তার মনে। তিনি গুলশানে তাঁর মামার বাসায় চলে যেতে চেয়েছিলেন।

আরবাব বললেন, “বাচ্চু দ্য সিটি ইস নট সেইফ ফর ইউ”। শুনে, মজুমদার বললেন,
“ইজ দেয়ার এনিথিং ভেরি সিরিয়াস ইন দ্য সিটি?’
আরবাব উদ্ধত ভঙ্গিতে “নাথিং লাইক দ্যাট, গিভ মি টু কোম্পানি, আই উইল স্ট্রেইটেন এভরিথিং ইনক্লুডিং ইওর বঙ্গবন্ধু” বলতে বলতে অন্যদের সাথে হাত মেলাতে চলে গেলেন। মজুমদার আমীনকে ফিসফিসিয়ে বললেন, “দে কুড নেভার থিঙ্ক বিয়োন্ড দ্য রেসপন্সিবিলিটি অব এ কোম্পানি”।*




২৫ মার্চ দুপুরে ক্যাপ্টেন খালেকুজ্জামান কি নিয়ে জিয়া এই পথে ঘুরলেন
*ততক্ষণে আমীনের মামা গাড়ি নিয়ে চলে আসায় তিনি চলে গিয়েছিলেন গুলশান। যাওয়ার পথে শুনেছেন, তাজউদ্দিন তাঁর আল্টিমেটাম জানিয়ে দিয়েছেন, “নাথিং লেস দ্যান এ কনফেডারেশন”। 

চট্টগ্রামে কর্নেল চৌধুরিকেও তাই টেলিফোনে তিনি এ কথা জানিয়েছেন। উপরন্তু রফিককে ‘আপাততঃ ধীরে চলো’র জন্যেও বার্তা পাঠিয়েছেন কর্নেল চৌধুরির মাধ্যমে। এর সাথে মজুমদারের সকালের আদেশটা মিলছে না। এসব ভাবতে ভাবতে তিনি তাঁর মামার গাড়িতেই পৌঁছালেন এয়ারফোর্সের মেডিক্যাল ইউনিটে। সেখান থেকে বলা হলো ২৭ তারিখে রিপোর্ট করতে। এরপর আমীন, তার মামা শাহ আলম চৌধুরির মতিঝিলের হক ম্যানসনের অফিস থেকে ফোন করলেন চট্টগ্রামে।

প্রথমে কোন বাঙালি অফিসারকে পাওয়া গেলোনা। তিনি মিসেস মজুমদারকে ফোন করে বললেন, “স্যার কর্নেল চৌধুরিকে একটা ম্যাসেজ দিতে বলেছেন”। মিসেস মজুমদার বুঝতে পারলেন না তাঁর কথা। আমীন বললেন, “ভাবী আমি যা বলছি হুবুহু তাই লিখে কর্নেল চৌধুরিকে পাঠান। খুবই জরুরী”।
তিনি লিখলেন, “লাল ফ্ল্যাগ উড়িয়ে দাও”।

একটু পরে আমীন, শহীদ নামের ক্যাপ্টেন এনামের এক আত্মীয়কে, ফোন করলেন। শহীদের কাছে জানা গেলো চট্টগ্রামের অবস্থা খারাপ। তিনি যদি ঢাকা থেক কোন মতে হাজীক্যাম্প পর্যন্ত আসতেও পারেন ক্যান্টনমেন্টে ঢুকতে হবে, পাহাড়ের গায়ে গায়ে ভেসপা চালিয়ে নতুন পাড়ার কাঁচা রাস্তা দিয়ে। কর্নেল চৌধুরির কাছে কমান্ডান্টের বার্তাটি পৌছালো কি না জানতে তিনি এবার তিনি ফোন করলেন ক্যাপ্টেন মোহসিনকে। মোহসিন মারশালল’ অফিসে স্টাফ অফিসার। সেখানে পাওয়া গেল কর্নেল চৌধুরীকেও, তিনি বললেন, “ষোল শহরের দিকে ওয়াগান ফেলে জনতা সেনানিবাসের সাথে শহরের যোগাযোগ বিচ্ছিন্ন করে দিয়েছে”।
“স্যার বস লাল ফ্ল্যাগ উড়িয়ে দিতে বলেছেন”।

“তাতো বুঝলাম! কিন্তু এসব কথা তিনি নিজে বললে ভালো হয়”। আমীন বললেন,
“তাঁকে দিয়ে বিকেল নাগাদ বলানো যাবে। উনি আগে জয়দেবপুর থেকে ফিরে আসুক”।
সাড়ে দশটার দিকে ক্যাপ্টেন আমিন ধানমন্ডিতে এলেন কর্নেল ওসমানীর সাথে দেখা করতে। বললেন, “স্যার গাড়ি নিয়ে এসেছি, আজই চট্টগ্রামে শিফট করতে হবে”। ওসমানী তাঁকে বসিয়ে রেখে বিভিন্ন যায়গায় যোগাযোগ করে তারপর বললেন, “President is going to announce something very important by 8’0 clock in the evening, or latest by tomorrow noon.”

চট্টগ্রাম
২৫ মার্চ সকাল এগারোটার দিকে ৮ বেঙ্গলের ক্যাপ্টেন চৌধুরি খালেকুজ্জামানকে পাঠানো হল বায়েজিদ বোস্তামী রেল ক্রসিংয়ে ব্যারিকেড সরানোর জন্যে। নতুন স্টেশন কমান্ডার ব্রিগেডিয়ার আনসারিকে আগের দিন ঢাকা থেকে পাঠানো হয়েছে যেকোন মূল্যে সোয়াত জাহাজ থেকে গোলাবারুদ আনলোড করার দায়িত্ব দিয়ে। 

জেনারেলরা যখন মজুমদারের অফিসে তাকে কথাবার্তায় ব্যস্ত রেখেছিলেন, ততক্ষণে বেশিরভাগ বাঙালি অফিসারদের অলক্ষে আনসারি পোর্টে রওনা হয়েছিলেন। আনসারির ক্যারিয়ার প্রোফাইল খুব ভালো নয়। তার জুনিয়াররা একে একে জেনারেল হওয়া শুরু করলেও তিনি ওপরে উঠতে পারছিলেন না। সোয়াত জাহাজ খালি করাটা তাঁর জন্যে হয়ে দাঁড়িয়েছে পুলসিরাত পার হবার পাথেয়। ২৪ তারিখ রাত থেকেই তিনি লেগে পড়েছিলেন সোয়াত জাহাজ খালি করার চেষ্টায়। চট্টগ্রামের বাঙালিরা যেহেতু বিহারি বাঙালি দাঙ্গার পর থেকেই পাঞ্জাবিদের সহ্য করতে পারছিলো না, তাই তিনি বালুচ ইউনিটকে এই কাজে না লাগিয়ে ৮ বেঙ্গলের ওপর চাপিয়ে দিয়েছেন এই কাজ।*




লেঃ জেনারেল হামিদ খান, ভাইস চীফ পাকিস্তান আর্মি (মার্চ ১৯৭১)
*৮ বেঙ্গলের অবাঙালি অধিনায়ক, লেঃ কর্নেল জাঞ্জুয়া উঠে পড়ে লেগেছেন সোয়াতের পেছনে। মেজর মীর শওকত আলীকে দেওয়া হয়েছে জাহাজ খালি করার সময় পাহারাদারির দায়িত্ব। এদিকে ষোলশহর রেল স্টেশন থেকে ৪০০ গজ পশ্চিমে নাসিরাবাদ রেল ক্রসিঙের উপর একটি মাল গাড়ি দাঁড় করিয়ে দিয়ে ক্যান্টনমেন্টে যাবার রাস্তা বন্ধ করে দিয়েছে স্থানীয় বাঙালিরা। 

শুধু এখানেই নয় নাসিরাবাদ, ষোলশহর, আগ্রাবাদ সহ আরও অনেক জায়গায় বসানো হয়েছে ব্যরিকেড। ২৪ তারিখ রাত থেকে সে সব সরানোর দায়িত্ব দেওয়া হয়েছে ইবিআরসি আর ৮ বেঙ্গলকে। বাঙালি অফিসাররা পাঞ্জাবি অধিনায়কের আদেশে সেসব জায়গায় গেলেও ব্যরিকেড সরানোর ব্যাপারে খুব একটা গা লাগাতে দেখা যায়নি কাউকে।

অধিনায়কের আদেশে ক্যাপ্টেন খালেকুজ্জামান ১০ জন সৈনিক নিয়ে নাসিরাবাদ রেল ক্রসিংয়ে পৌঁছালেও, তাঁর নিরাসক্ত ভাব দেখে সৈনিকরাও নিষ্ক্রিয় হয়ে রইলো। তিনি ব্যারিকেড না সরানোর অজুহাত খুঁজতে খুঁজতে দেখলেন বগিগুলো একটির সাথে আরেকটি এমনভাবে লাগানো যে সামনের বা পিছনেরটি না সরিয়ে রেল ক্রসিঙের উপরেরটি সরানো সম্ভব না। সৈনিকদের ট্রেনের ওপর নজর রাখতে বলে ব্যাটালিয়নে ফিরে গিয়ে বললেন, যন্ত্রপাতি আর কারিগরী জ্ঞান না থাকায় তাঁর পক্ষে এই ব্যরিকেড সরানো সম্ভব না। অধিনায়কের পছন্দ হলো না তাঁর কথা। তিনি বললেন, “ইউ হ্যাভ জাস্ট কাম ব্যাক উইথ এ লেইম এক্সকিউজ! ওকে ইউ ফল ব্যাক উইথ য়োর ট্রুপস লেট মি সেন্ড সামোয়ান এলস”। এর পর মেজর মীর শওকত আলীকে পাঠানো হল, ব্যারিকেড সরাতে।

খালেকুজ্জামান ফিরে এসে, কিছুক্ষণ পর উপ অধিনায়কের অফিসে গেলেন। জিয়া সেখানে একা একা কাজ করছিলেন। খালেকুজ্জামানকে দেখে একটু খুশিই হলেন মনে হয়। ইশারায় চেয়ার দেখিয়ে একটি মুচকি হাসি দিয়ে বললেন, “সো ইউ কেইম ব্যাক উইথ এ লেইম এক্সিউজ”! সে কথার উত্তর না দিয়ে খালেক পাল্টা জিজ্ঞেস করলেন, “স্যার, হোয়াট’স গোয়িং টু হ্যাপেন?” ফাইল থেকে চোখ না তুলেই জিয়া বললেন, “লেটস ওয়েট এন্ড সি”।
বেলা ১টার দিকে ফাইল বন্ধ করে উঠলেন তিনি। বললেন, “সিও বলেছেন গার্ড চেক করতে চলো দেখে আসি কোথায় কী করছে ওরা”।

খালেকুজ্জামানকে নিয়ে একটি জীপে করে সরাসরি ক্যান্টনমেন্টের দিকে রওনা দিলেন তিনি। বায়েজিদ বোস্তামি রোডে ঢোকার মুখে নাসিরাবাদ রেল ক্রসিঙের উপর থেকে মালগাড়ির বগিটা ততক্ষণে সরিয়ে ফেলা হয়েছে। খালেকুজ্জামানের একটু অভিমান হলো মীর শওকত আলীর উপর, তিনি জিয়াকে বললেন,
“দেখেছেন স্যার, ‘মেজর শওকত ক্লিয়ার করে দিয়েছেন!”
জিয়া বললেন, “His father used to serve in the Railway, that experience might have helped”.*




বঙ্গবন্ধুর বাড়ি
*একটু দূরে কোকাকোলার সামনে লেফটেন্যান্ট শমসের মুবিনের সাথে দেখা হলো। তাঁর খোঁজ খবর নিয়ে আবার এগিয়ে চললো জীপ। ক্যান্টনমেন্ট থেকে একই পথে ফিরে এসে নিউমার্কেট, কোর্ট হিল, আন্দরকিল্লা, চকবাজার হয়ে তারা ফিরে এলেন নাসিরাবাদ হাউজিং সোসাইটি এলাকায়। পথে অসংখ্য ব্যারিকেড সরাতে হলো নিজেদেরই। দুই এক জায়গায় বাঙালিরা কাছে এগিয়ে উঁকি দিলো জীপে। তাদের দেখে বেরিকেড সরানোর কাজে হাতও লাগালো দুই এক জন। বলল, “আমাদের জীপ”। 

কেউ কেউ জিজ্ঞেস করলো, কী হতে যাচ্ছে। জিয়া খুব একটা কথা বললেন না। চকবাজারে দেখা হলো ছাত্রনেতা মোহাম্মাদ হোসেনের সাথে, চিটাগং কলেজে খালেকুজ্জামানের সহপাঠি ছিলেন তিনি। জিয়ার সাথে পরিচিত হয়ে খুশি হলেন তিনি। বললেন,
“যদি ওরা আক্রমণ করে আমরা কী করবো? স্যার, আপনারা আমাদের সাথে আছেন তো?”
জিয়া কথা বলছিলেন কম। শুনতে চাচ্ছিলেন বেশি। মুচকি হেসে বললেন, “ওয়েট এন্ড সি”। খালেকুজ্জামান বললেন, “ বন্ধু সময় হলে দেখবা। তবে তোমরা রেডি থেকো”। সিরাজুদ্দৌলা রোডে দেখা হলো, ছাত্রনেতা হারূন খানের সাথে। তাঁর সাথেও পরিচয় ছিলো খালেকুজ্জামানের। তিনি এগিয়ে এলেন গাড়ির দিকে। বললেন,
“আমরা কিন্তু রাজপথে আছি”। খালেকুজ্জামান হাসতে হাসতে বললেন, “তাতো দেখতেই পাচ্ছি”।
হারূন জিয়াকে বললেন, “স্যার আপনারা আমাদের লোক” জিয়া শুধু মুচকি হেসে মাথা নাড়লেন।
নাসিরাবাদে নামার সময় জিয়া বললেন,
“কী মনে হলো”?
খালেকুজ্জামান বললেন, “মাথায় কিছুই আসছেনা”।

ঢাকা
২৫ শে মার্চ সকাল সাড়ে এগারো। লেঃ কর্ণেল জহির আলম চীফ অব স্টাফের ওয়েটিং রুমে বসে বার বার ঘড়ি দেখছিলেন। কিউএমজি তাঁকে ওয়েটিং রুমে বসতে বলে ভিতরে ঢুকেছেন অনেকক্ষণ আগে। সেনাপ্রধানের সাথে এর আগে দু’একবার দেখা হয়েছে তাঁর কিন্তু সেটা না হবার মত। হয়তো তিনি কোন ভিজিটে এসেছেন, সেখানে শ’খানেক অফিসারের মধ্যে জেড এ খানও ছিলেন। 

তিনি সেনাপ্রধানকে কি বলবেন মনে মনে সে সব গুছিয়ে নিচ্ছিলেন। তার মধ্যেও ফাক ফোকর দিয়ে ঢুকে পড়ছিলো রাও ফরমান আলীর চিন্তা। গতকাল রাও ফরমান আলীর খানের সাথে তিনি যা করেছেন ভালো করে লক্ষ্য করলে সেটা ইন সাবঅর্ডিনেশনের পর্যায়ে পড়ে। 

একেবারে কোর্ট মার্শাল যোগ্য অপরাধ। রাও যে কত খানি ক্ষেপে আছেন তা বোঝা গেছে আজ সকালের আচরণে। সময়মত হেলিকপ্টার পাওয়া গেলে তিনি এতক্ষণ থাকতেন কুমিল্লায়। কর্ণেল আকবর যখন রাওকে বললেন, স্যার, ঘন্টা খানেকের আগে হেলিকপ্টার পাওয়া যাবেনা, তখন তাঁর চেহারা হয়েছিলো দেখার মত। মনে হচ্ছিলো রাও জহিরকে দৃষ্টি দিয়ে ভষ্ম করে দেবেন।বাঁচতে হলে মিঠার সাথে দেখা করতেই হবে। তিনি নতুন গভর্ণর জেনারেল টিক্কা খানের অফিসে। জহির টিক্কা খানের অফিসের দরজার দিকে তাকিয়ে বসে রইলেন। রাও ফরমান আলী আর তার মধ্যের তিক্ততা দু’জনের মধ্যে পর্দার মত ঝুলে রইলো।

মিনিট পনর পর মিঠা বের হওয়ার সাথে সাথে প্রায় লাফিয়ে ঘর থেকে বেরুলেন জহির। তারপর মিঠা তাকে গাড়িতে উঠিয়ে সেনা প্রধানের কাছে নিয়ে এসেছেন তাও প্রায় ঘন্টাখানেক।*




জেড এ খানের পরিকল্পনা।
*অবশেষে ডাক এলো লেফটেন্যান্ট জেনারেল আব্দুল হামিদ খানের কাছ থেকে। কার্যত তিনি সেনাপ্রধান হলেও তার অফিসিয়াল এপয়েন্টমেন্ট পাকিস্তান সেনাবাহিনীর ভাইস চীফ। দু’বছর আগে আইয়ুব খানকে সরিয়ে যেদিন ইয়াহিয়া মসনদে বসলেন সেই একইদিনে আব্দুল হামিদ খান নিয়োগ পেলেন ভাইস চীফ হিসেবে।ইয়াহিয়া একাধারে কমান্ডার ইন চীফ, সেনা প্রধান ও রাষ্ট্রপতি ।তিনি স্বেচ্ছায় সরে না দাঁড়ালে হামিদ সাহেবকে ভাইস হিসেবেই থাকতে হবে।
জহির এতক্ষণ সেনা প্রধানের সাথে কথা বলার জন্যে মনে মনে যে সব প্রস্তুতি নিয়েছিলেন তেমন কাজে লাগলো না। সেনাপ্রধান প্রথমে তাঁকে আগ্রহ নিয়ে দেখলেন। সরাসরি দু’একটা কথাও বললেন। তারপর তিনি ভাব বাচ্য ধরলেন। বেশির ভাগ কথা হলো সেনা প্রধান আর কিউএমজির মধ্যে।

জহিরের মনে হলো, মিঠা আগেই হামিদ খানকে ব্রিফ করেছেন। গাড়িতে আসার পথে তিনি মিঠাকে অপারেশন প্ল্যানসহ যা যা বলেছিলেন দেখা গেলো, ভাইস চীফ তার অনেক কিছুই জানেন। একটু পর হামিদ বললেন, গো এন্ড মিট জেনারেল রাও ফরমান আলী, আস্ক হিম হোয়াট ইউ ওয়ান্ট। বাট ক্যাচ হিম এলাইভ।

জহির বুঝলেন শেষের বাক্যাটা মুজিবের জন্যে বলা। তিনি বেড়িয়ে যাবার সময় সেনাপ্রধান তাঁকে নাম ধরে ডাকলেন, জহির! রিমাইন্ডিং য়ু এগেইন, ইফ মুজিব গেটস কিল্ড, য়ু’ল বি হেল্ড রেস্পন্সিবল।

এবার রাও ফরমান আলী প্রায় নির্লিপ্ত আচরণ করলেন। জেড এ খান বললেন, স্যার ইউনইটেড ব্যাংকের দু’টি কার নিয়ে আমরা ২৩ তারিখে রেকি করে দেখেছি, কমপক্ষে তিন প্লাটুন ট্রুপস ছাড়া এই অপারেশন সফল হবে বলে মনে হয়না।

মুজিবের বাড়ির চারদিকের ক্রাউড কন্ট্রোল করা ছাড়াও ইম্পর্ট্যান্ট একটা ব্যাপার হচ্ছে ওনার বাসার পাশের জাপানি ডিপ্লোম্যাটের বাসায় সার্ভিলেন্স বসানো। যদি মুজিব দেয়াল টপকে ওই বাসায় ঢুকে যান, তাহলে অপারেশন ওখানেই শেষ। ওই দিকটায় স্পেশাল নজরদারি করতে হবে। রোড ব্লক, কর্ডন, সার্চ এসবের জন্যে লোক লাগবে। সো মিনিমাম রিকয়রমেন্ট ৩ প্লাটুন। সেই সাথে ৩টি ট্রুপ্স ক্যারিং ট্রান্সপোর্ট।

রাও বললেন, এগুলো কোন সমস্যা নয়। বাট হাউ আর ইউ গোয়িং টু এক্সিকিঊট দ্যা প্ল্যান?
জেড এ খান দেখলেন সেই একই প্রশ্ন। গতকালের ঝামেলার সূত্রপাত হয়েছিলো এই প্রশ্ন দিয়েই। জহির আজ আর মাথা গরম করলেন না। বললেন, আমি একটা প্ল্যান করেছি, মে আই ডিস্কাস দ্যাট?
রাও কোন উত্তর দিলেন, ‘না’।

জহির বললেন, দু’টো রোডব্লক হবে, মিরপুর রোড দিয়ে ধানমন্ডিতে ঢোকার মুখে মানে ধানমন্ডি – মোহাম্মাদপুর রোডের মাথায় একটি, আর এই রোডেরই আরও সামনে গিয়ে সেকেন্ড টার্নিং-এ একটি। মুজিবের বাড়ি যারা কর্ডন করবে তারা জাপানি ডিপ্লোমাটের বাড়ির সাথে মুজিবের বাড়ির যে ওয়াল সেটার দিকে খেয়াল রাখবে। শেখ যেন দেয়াল টপকে এদিকে আসতে না পারে। আর এক প্লাটুন টর্চ নিয়ে বাড়ির উপর তলা নিচতলা ভালোভাবে সার্চ করবে।
এতক্ষণে মুখ খুললেন রাও, আর তোমরা এসেম্বল হচ্ছো কোথায়?

– স্যার, এয়ার ফিল্ডের আউটার পেরিমিটারে এমএনএ হোস্টেলের দিকে এয়ার পোর্টের যে গেট আছে তার কাছে।
– দেন?
– আমরা এখান থেকে ন্যাশনাল এসেম্বলির সামনে দিয়ে আইয়ুব গেইট- মোহাম্মাদপুর হয়ে ধানমন্ডি যাবো।
– সাউন্ডস অল রাইট।
– স্যার, আ’ল ব্রিফ মাই অফিসার্স অন মডেল আফটার ইভনিং মিল। য়ু’ল নট মুভ আউট বিফোর নাইন থার্টি।
রাও কোন কিছুর সাথে দ্বিমত করলেন না।
তথ্য সূত্রঃ
১। আমীন আহমেদ চৌধুরি; স্মৃতিচারণঃ অগ্নিঝরা মার্চ ১৯৭১ সালের সেই উত্তাল দিনগুলো
২। Mahmudur Rahman Chowdhury; The 25/26 March 1971 revolt in Chittagong
৩। চৌধুরি খালেকুজ্জামান; সামরিক জীবনের স্মৃতি
৪। ব্রিগেডিয়ার মাহামুদুর রহমান মজুমদারের সাথে মেজর কামরুল হাসান ভূঁইয়া ও লেখকের আলাপচারিতা ১৯৯৯
৫। Time: Flames of Freedom
৬। ZA Khan; The Way it Was*

*চলবে…
সিবিএন২৪–এ প্রকাশিত লেখকের আরও লেখা পড়তে তাঁর এই নামের ওপর ক্লিক করুন, সাইদুল ইসলাম*


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## Banglar Bir

*Alm Fazlur Rahman
বাংলাদেশের মহান মুক্তিযুদ্ধের মাধ্যমে কিছু বিতর্কিত বিষয়ের তামাদি হয়ে গেছে। যেমনঃ

১। বাংলাদেশে ঐসময় বেশীর ভাগ সামরিক বাহিনীর অফিসার বিদ্রোহ করে মুক্তিযুদ্ধে যোগ দেন।

২। কিছু আর্মি অফিসার পাকিস্তান আর্মিতে চাকরি রত অবস্থায় আমাদের মানে মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের বিরুদ্ধে যুদ্ধ করে পাকিস্তান আর্মি সাথে রেসকোর্সে আত্মসমর্পণ করেন। পরে পাকিস্তান থেকে রিপেটরিয়েশনের মাধ্যমে বাংলাদেশে ফিরে আসেন।

৩। কিছু অফিসার মুক্তিযুদ্ধে না গিয়ে বাড়িতে লুকিয়ে থাকেন।

৪। কিছু অফিসার মুক্তিযুদ্ধের ময়দান থেকে পালিয়ে এসে দেশের ভিতরে লুকিয়ে থাকেন।

৫। কিছু অফিসার ২৫ মার্চের পরে মুক্তিযুদ্ধে যোগদানের আহ্বান উপেক্ষা করে পাকিস্তানে চলে যান।

৬। আমি শুনেছি ১/২ জন বিহারি ব্যাকগ্রাউন্ডের অফিসার মুক্তিযুদ্ধে যোগদানের অদম্য ইচ্ছা থাকার পরেও জীবনের নিরাপত্তার ঝুকি থাকাতে মুক্তিযুদ্ধে যোগ দিতে পারেনি।

এই গেলো ঐ সময় বাংলাদেশের ঘটনা।

এবারে পাকিস্তানের দিকে তাকালে দেখবোঃ

১। কিছু অফিসার জীবনের ঝুকি নিয়ে পালিয়ে এসে মুক্তিযুদ্ধে যোগ দিয়েছেন।

২। কিছু অফিসার পালানোর সময় ধরা পড়ে নিগৃহিত হয়েছেন।

৩। কিছু অফিসার যুদ্ধের শেষের দিকে পালিয়ে এসেছেন। ইতিমধ্যেই দেশ স্বাধীন হয়ে যাওয়াতে তারা যুদ্ধে যোগ দিতে পারেননি। কিন্তু যুদ্ধ দীর্ঘ হলে এদের সবাই যুদ্ধে যোগ দিতেন।

৪। কিছু অফিসার মুক্তিযুদ্ধের সময় পাকিস্তান মিলিটারী এ্যাকাডেমিতে সামরিক প্রশিক্ষণ নিয়েছেন। এদের কেউ কেউ পালিয়ে এসে যুদ্ধে যোগ দিয়েছেন।

৫। বেশির ভাগ অফিসার বন্দিত্ব বরন করেন।

অনেকে বলার চেষ্টা করেন কোনো উপায় না থাকাতে বাধ্য হয়ে অনেক আর্মি অফিসার মুক্তিযুদ্ধে যোগ দিয়েছিলেন। আমি দৃঢ় ভাবে বলতে চাই, যে সকল আর্মি অফিসার বিদ্রোহ করে মুক্তিযুদ্ধে যোগ দিয়েছিলেন 
তারা স্বেচ্ছা প্রণোদিত হয়েই যুদ্ধে গেছেন । এতে কোনো সন্দেহ নাই। মুক্তিযুদ্ধে এটাও প্রমাণিত হয়েছে সবাই যুদ্ধ করার মতো সাহসী হয়না সবার যুদ্ধ করার সাহস থাকেনা । অতএব আজকে কেউ যদি বলেন সুযোগ পেলে আমি হিমালয় পর্বত উল্টে ফেলতাম এমন দাবী বোধকরি সঠিক নয়।*


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## Shahzaz ud din

Banglar Bir said:


> View attachment 403078


Oh my God one nation so many fore fathers.Except N.Saleemuallah rest were traiors.You guys have a whole family of fore father headed by a fore mother.Her name is Indira Gandhi.





















You guys are highly ungrateful.Shame on you for forgetting them and giving them a due credit for your freedom.BD should be proud of them.Your fore mother was a hindu and forefather were parsi and sikh respectively.Cheers


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## Banglar Bir

*IAF domination of skies ensured success of Bangladesh blitzkrieg*
Vikram Jit Singh | TNN
Chandigarh: The Indian Air Force (IAF) attained complete domination over the skies of East Pakistan within three days of the start of the 1971 war. This allowed India's vastly superior air power to lend critical ground support to troops and armoured formations spearheading the blitzkrieg to Dhaka that birthed Bangladesh and landed India its sole decisive victory in the war.

'*Op Cactus Lily', as the offensive was code-named,* witnessed a high level of synergy and jointness among the three armed forces, which is an essential prerequisite for war-fighting campaigns in the multi-dimensional modern era. An in-depth perspective on the IAF's operations — drawing on personal combat experience, revelations of fellow fighter/bomber pilots and captured Pakistan Air Force (PAF) officers — was delivered on Tuesday by retired Air Marshal Man Mohan Singh (Vir Chakra), who led the 15 Squadron of Gnats. His presentation at the Centre for Research in Rural and Industrial Development (CRRID) was the fourth in the series to honour the memory of late author and regiment of artillery officer, Maj Gen KS Bajwa, under the aegis of the Centre for Indian Military History.

"In East Pakistan, we outnumbered the Pakistanis in the air. But this kind of a operational scenario will never prevail again. If India is faced with a two-front war, it will not fare well due to shortage of aircraft. The government should ensure that the 36 Rafales are delivered quickly and not let bureaucratic quibbling lead to lengthy delays," warned Air Marshal Singh, his words echoing the recent statement of IAF chief B S Dhanoa.

"The Maj Gen Bajwa series affords veterans not only an opportunity to share their combat experience but to enlighten us with guidelines that can serve India well in tackling contemporary conflicts," said military historian Mandeep S Bajwa, while making the introductory remarks to the presentation. Air Marshall Singh was involved in combat, and before the 1971 war, he had been co-opted by IAF HQs into planning of operations. He rose to command Western Air Command but resigned on July 31, 1988, because despite being the senior-most officer, a war hero and endowed with rich combat and operational experience, he was superseded for the post of chief of air staff. As Bajwa put it subtly, "The reasons were entirely non-military for the supersession of Air Marshal Singh".

"The PAF's Air Marshal Inamul Haq told me that the IAF bombing of the PAF runways in East Pakistan was exemplary. He commended our bombing accuracy as we were using 'dumb' bombs. It was our bombing of the runways that knocked the PAF out of the picture. I later assessed that the PAF had lost seven of their 16 aircraft, F-86 Sabres, to the IAF," said Air Marshall Singh. In turn, the IAF lost 13 aircraft but these were due to the vast number of sorties it flew and the dense fire from Pakistani ground air defence.

In the citation for Air Marshall Singh's Vir Chakra, it was stated: ''His squadron flew 110 sorties in Bangladesh in close support and anti-shipping roles and met all its operational commitments without damage to any of its aircraft. He personally led 19 sorties and successfully engaged enemy defence positions, gun boats and ships despite heavy ground fire. When the heli-borne operations across the Maghana river commenced, his squadron provided very effective air cover for the successful completion of the task. In addition, the squadron provided valuable support to the Army in Agartala sector despite the fact that the aircraft had to operate from a short runway at Agartala.''

Lending a glimpse into operations, Air Marshall stated that they would fly over steamers and vehicles and let the civilians flee before knocking them out. His squadron was in the forefront of knocking out a big Pakistani ship in the vicinity of Khulna. Recalling the close coordination between then IV Corps Commander Lt Gen Sagat Singh and the IAF's Group Captain Chandan Singh, Air Marshall Singh recalled fascinating anecdotes of men at war, their idiosyncrasies, humour in uniform and winning ways. Twice, during the war, Air Marshal Singh's 15 Squadron was moved to other operational airfields and both times, the Gnats did not miss a moment by striking hard at the enemy's positions while en route to the new base!

http://m.timesofindia.com/city/chan...angladesh-blitzkrieg/articleshow/60181993.cms


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## Banglar Bir

*গেরিলা ১৯৭১*




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*Details of Operation D.F.P 
আজকের ভিডিও'টি অবরুদ্ধ ঢাকায় পরিচালিত, পূর্ব পাকিস্তান ডিপার্টমেন্ট অব ফিল্ম অ্যান্ড প্রোডাকশন (ডি,এফ,পি) ভবন উড়িয়ে দেবার মতো অত্যন্ত গুরুত্বপূর্ণ এক গেরিলা অপারেশনের ধ্বংসযজ্ঞ ধারণ করেছে।

Sector-2 ক্টর ২ এর ঢাকা কেন্দ্রিক আরবান গেরিলাদের অন্যতম বীর মুক্তিযোদ্ধা শ্রদ্ধেয় Valient Freedom Fighter Rafiqul Haque Nantu রফিকুল হক নান্টু। তিনি সেই মুক্তিযোদ্ধা যার ছবি শহীদ নাদেরের (মালিটোলার নাদের গুন্ডা) বলে ভুল করা হয়ে আসছে বিগত বছরখানেক ধরে।
ডি,এফ,পি, অপারেশনের বিস্তারিতঃ 
★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★
ঢাকায় তাদের গেরিলা অপারেশনে পাঠানো হয়েছিল সাদেক হোসেন খোকার নেতৃত্বে। খোকার ওই গেরিলা দলে আগরতলা থেকে ট্র্রেনিং নিয়ে আসা যোদ্ধা ছিলেন ৪০ জন। ঢাকায় এসে আরও ২০-২৫ জনকে রিক্রুট করা হয়েছিল। প্রথমে কমান্ডার খোকা তার নেতৃত্বাধীন ৪০ জন মুক্তিযোদ্ধাকে ২০ জন করে দুটি সাব-কমান্ডে ভাগ করেন। একটি গ্রুপের নেতৃত্ব বর্তায় নান্টুর বন্ধুস্থানীয় বড় ভাই পরবর্তীকালে জনপ্রিয় পপগায়ক আজম খানের ওপর, অপরটির নেতৃত্বে ছিলেন মোহাম্মদ শামসুল হুদা।

রফিকুল হক নান্টু জানান, তারা যখন ঢাকায় গেরিলা যুদ্ধ করছেন, তখন মুক্তিযোদ্ধারা দেশজুড়ে শক্ত প্রতিরোধ গড়ে তুলেছে। তবু পাকিস্তানিরা সিনেমা হলগুলোতে সিনেমা শুরুর আগে 'চিত্রে পাকিস্তানি খবর' শিরোনামে তথ্যচিত্র দেখাত। 'চিত্রে পাকিস্তানি খবর' তথ্যচিত্রগুলোয় দেখানো হতো দেশের অবস্থা খুবই ভালো। দলে দলে নারী-পুরুষ বাজার-সদাই করে বেড়াচ্ছে। মিথ্যা দিয়ে এই সব তথ্যচিত্র নির্মাণের দায়িত্ব ছিল ডিএফপির। তাই গেরিলারা সিদ্ধান্ত নিলেন ডিএফপি উড়িয়ে দেবেন।

ডিএফপির তখনকার চিফ ক্যামেরাম্যান সাইদুল হক বাবু ছিলেন রফিকুল হক নান্টুর বড় ভাই। ভাইয়ের সঙ্গে গিয়ে নান্টু পুরো অফিসের হালহকিকত দেখে আসেন। ভবনটি সম্পর্কে জানাবার পর কী পরিমাণ বিস্টেম্ফারক দিয়ে তা উড়িয়ে দেওয়া যাবে, সে ব্যাপারে পরামর্শ দিলেন তাদের সঙ্গী মুক্তিযোদ্ধা ইকবাল সুফির বাবা প্রকৌশলী এস পি আহম্মেদ। নান্টু বলেন, যখনই প্রয়োজন হয়েছে, এস পি আহম্মেদ তার গাড়ি ও টাকা দিয়ে মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের সহায়তা করেছেন। তার মালিবাগের বাসা ছিল ঢাকায় যুদ্ধরত গেরিলাদের নিরাপদ আশ্রয়।

ডিএফপির ওই অভিযান পরিচালনার কথা জানাতে গিয়ে রফিকুল হক নান্টু বলেন, 'ডিএফপির অপারেশনটি আমরা চালিয়েছিলাম পবিত্র রমজানের শেষ শুক্রবারে। আমরা চাইনি, আমাদের অপারেশনে নিরীহ কেউ মারা যাক। তাই যে দারোয়ান পরিবার-পরিজন নিয়ে ডিএফপির ওই ভবনেই থাকতেন, তাকে তার স্ত্রী, শিশুসন্তান, এমনকি তাদের ব্যবহার্য হাঁড়ি-পাতিল পর্যন্ত সরিয়ে নেওয়ার সুযোগ দিই।

রফিকুল হক নান্টু বলেন, প্রশিক্ষণের সময় জেনেছিলাম, বিস্ফোরক যত চাপের মধ্যে থাকবে, তার ধ্বংসক্ষমতা তত বাড়বে। সে জন্য টার্গেট করা জায়গায় ওটা রেখে দুটি স্টিলের আলমারি দিয়ে চাপা দিই আমরা। এতে বিস্ফোরণটি এত ভয়াবহ হয়েছিল যে, ডিএফপি ভবন ধ্বংসস্তূপে পরিণত হয়।

রফিকুল হক নান্টু বলেন, পরে দারোয়ান তার কাছে থাকা ডিএফপির একটি মাইক্রোবাসের চাবি আমাদের দিয়ে দেন এবং সেটি চালিয়ে দ্রুত পালিয়ে যাই আমরা। এ বিস্ফোরণের খবর ছড়িয়ে পড়েছিল সারা পৃথিবীতে। স্বাধীন বাংলা বেতারকেন্দ্র, আকাশবাণী, বিবিসি, ভয়েস অব আমেরিকাসহ পৃথিবীর বহু প্রচারমাধ্যম বারবার গুরুত্ব দিয়ে প্রচার করেছিল খবরটি। পাকিস্তানিদের মিথ্যা প্রচারণার স্বরূপ উপলব্ধি করতে সক্ষম হয় বিশ্ববাসী।

(আমাদের কথাঃ এই দুঃসাহসী গেরিলা সম্পূর্ণভাবে নিভৃতচারী এক মানুষ। তাঁর অমায়িক ব্যবহার এবং মুখের শিশুসুলভ হাসি দেখলে কেউ চিন্তাও করতে পারবেন না তিনি কতোটা বীরত্বের সাথে একাত্তরে রুখে দাঁড়িয়েছিলেন। আমাদের অভিভাবকতুল্য এই বীর মুক্তিযোদ্ধার দীর্ঘ, সুস্থ্য, কর্মময় জীবন প্রার্থনা করছি।)*

বাংলাদেশের শ্রেষ্ঠ সন্তানেরা, এপ্রিল ১৯৭১.




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## Banglar Bir

*ইতিহাস আমাদের ক্ষমা করবে না
History will never Forgive us*
Nadir Ali নাদির আলী

*পাকিস্তান ভাঙনের আগের কয়েকটা গুরুত্বপূর্ণ মাস আমি তরুণ ক্যাপ্টেন হিসেবে দায়িত্ব পালন করছিলাম। এর মধ্যে আমি পদোন্নতি পেয়ে মেজর হিসেবে ঢাকা ও চট্টগ্রামে দায়িত্ব পালন করি। প্রথমে সেকেন্ড-ইন-কমান্ড ও পরবর্তীকালে কমান্ডার হিসেবে তিনটি কমান্ডো ব্যাটালিয়নের সঙ্গে কাজ করি আমি।

১৯৭১ সালের এপ্রিলের মধ্যভাগে আমি প্রথম অভিযানে যাই। আমার প্রতি নির্দেশ জারি হয়, ‘এটা মুজিবুর রহমানের নিজ জেলা। এলাকাটা দুর্গম। ওখানে যত বেশি পারবেন তত বেশি বেজন্মাকে হত্যা করবেন। আর এটা নিশ্চত করার চেষ্টা করুন, যাতে কোনো হিন্দু জীবিত না থাকে।’

আমি উত্তর দিলাম, ‘যদি আমাকে কেউ গুলি না করে তাহলে নিরস্ত্র বেসামরিক মানুষকে আমি হত্যা করি না।’ এর প্রত্যুত্তরে আমাকে বলা হলো, ‘হিন্দুদের শেষ করে দাও, এই আদেশ সবাইকে দেওয়া হয়েছে। কমান্ডো হিসেবে আমাকে তোমার সূক্ষ্মতা দেখিয়ো না।’

এরপর প্রথম অভিযানের জন্য উড়াল দিলাম। আমাকে ফরিদপুরের পেছনে নামিয়ে দেওয়া হলো। আমরা সেখানে নেমে চারদিকে গুলি ছুড়তে শুরু করি। সৌভাগ্যবশত, ওখানে গুলি করার মতো লক্ষ্যবস্তু ছিল না। এরপর হঠাৎ দেখলাম, কিছু বেসামরিক মানুষ আমাদের দিকে দৌড়ে আসছে। তাদের হাতে অস্ত্র ছিল না। আমি নির্দেশ দিলাম, ‘গুলি বন্ধ করো!’ চেঁচিয়ে জিজ্ঞাসা করলাম, তারা কী চায়। সঙ্গে সঙ্গে তারা জবাব দিল, ‘স্যার, আমরা আপনাদের জন্য খাবার পানি এনেছি!’

অধস্তনদের হাতিয়ার রেখে দেওয়ার নির্দেশ দিয়ে চা-বিরতির আদেশ দিলাম। আমরা সেখানে কয়েক ঘণ্টা ছিলাম। এর মধ্যে কেউ একজন পাকিস্তানি পতাকা তুলল। গ্রামবাসীদের বললাম, ‘গতকাল আপনাদের গ্রামে তো শুধু আওয়ামী লীগের পতাকা দেখেছি।’ এটাই সত্যি। আমি বুঝতে পারছিলাম না যে হাসব না কাঁদব। 

এরপর সেনাদের বড় দলটা যোগাযোগ স্থাপনের জন্য আমাদের সঙ্গে যোগ দিল। তারা চারদিকে মেশিনগানের গুলি ছুড়তে ছুড়তে হাজির হলো। দেখলাম, পেছনের গ্রামগুলো থেকে ধোঁয়ার কুণ্ডলী উঠছে। কর্নেল জিজ্ঞাসা করলেন, ‘স্কোর কত?’ তাঁকে জানালাম, ‘আমরা কোনো প্রতিরোধের মুখে পড়িনি, তাই কাউকে মারিনি।’

তিনি মেশিনগান বের করে গুলি ছুড়তে শুরু করেন। ফলে যে গ্রামবাসী আমাদের জন্য পানি নিয়ে এসেছিল, তাদের অনেকেই মারা পড়ল। এরপর তিনি আমার মতো বেচারা মেজরকে বললেন, ‘ছোকরা, এভাবেই সব করতে হয়।’

এপ্রিলের শুরু থেকে অক্টোবর পর্যন্ত আমি ওখানে কাজ করেছি। সেখানে সব ঘটনার কেন্দ্রে আমরাই ছিলাম। ওদিকে আমার ইউনিটের একটি দল ২৫ মার্চ রাতে শেখ মুজিবকে বাসা থেকে ধরে আনে। আমরা সরাসরি পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় কমান্ডের অধীনে ছিলাম। এসএসজি ব্যাটালিয়ন কমান্ডার হিসেবে আমি জেনারেল নিয়াজি, জেনারেল রহিম ও পরবর্তীকালে ১৪ ঢাকা ডিভিশনের জেনারেল কাজি মজিদের অধীনে ছিলাম।

১৯৭১ সালের অক্টোবর মাসে আমি পদোন্নতি পেয়ে লে. কর্নেল পদে উন্নীত হয়ে পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানে ফিরে যাই। আমার মূল বিভাগ অর্ডন্যান্সেই পদায়ন হয়। তবে সে বছরের ডিসেম্বর মাস থেকেই আমার স্মৃতিভ্রম শুরু হয়। ১৯৭৩ সালে স্বাস্থ্যগত কারণে অবসর নেওয়ার আগ পর্যন্ত এটা চলতে থাকে। পরবর্তীকালে চিকিৎসার পর আমি স্মৃতি ফিরে পাই এবং পাঞ্জাবি লেখক হিসেবে নতুন জীবন শুরু করি। ১৯৭১ সালের পর থেকে প্রতিটি ঘটনাই আমার স্মরণে আছে।

অভিযান ও অধীন ইউনিট পরিদর্শনের জন্য আমি সারা পূর্ব পাকিস্তান ঘুরে বেরিয়েছি। আমি কখনো কাউকে হত্যা করিনি অথবা হত্যার নির্দেশ দিইনি। সৌভাগ্যবশত, কোনো হত্যাযজ্ঞও আমাকে দেখতে হয়নি। কিন্তু অন্যান্য সেক্টরে কী হচ্ছিল সে বিষয়ে আমি ওয়াকিবহাল ছিলাম। হাজার হাজার মানুষকে মারা হচ্ছিল আর লাখে লাখে মানুষ ঘরছাড়া হচ্ছিল। ৯০ লাখের বেশি মানুষ শরণার্থী হিসেবে ভারতে চলে যায়। হিন্দুদের মারার জন্য নির্দেশ দেওয়া হয়েছিল। 

এই নির্দেশ আমি অনেকবার পেয়েছি, আবার বেশ কবার আমাকে এটা মনে করিয়ে দেওয়া হয়েছিল। পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানি সেনারা এটাকে গ্রহণযোগ্য মনে করত। হামুদুর রহমান কমিশনের প্রতিবেদনে এটি উল্লেখ আছে। ভারতে যে ৯৩ লাখ শরণার্থী গিয়েছিল তাদের মধ্যে ৯০ লাখই ছিল হিন্দু। ফলে সারা পৃথিবীর গণমাধ্যম আমাদের সমালোচনা করে, যা আমাদের নৈতিক ভিত্তি ধ্বংস করে দেয়। অদক্ষ সামরিক নেতৃত্বের কারণে যুদ্ধে আমাদের পরাজয় নিশ্চিত হয়। শুধু উত্তরাঞ্চলের কিছু ব্যাটালিয়ন প্রতিরোধ গড়ে তোলে। উদাহরণস্বরূপ, মেজর আকরামের ইউনিটের কথা বলা যায়, যাকে সর্বোচ্চ সামরিক পদক নিশান-ই-হায়দার দেওয়া হয়েছিল। তিনি লড়াই করতে করতে প্রাণ হারান।

পূর্ব পাকিস্তান ছিল পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানের হাজার মাইল দূরে। জন গান্টার ইনসাইড এশিয়া টুডেতে বলেছেন, এটি ছিল ‘ভৌগোলিক ও রাজনৈতিকভাবে অর্থহীন’ প্রপঞ্চ। পাকিস্তানের ফেডারেল রাজধানী ছিল ইসলামাবাদে। পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানি সরকারি কর্মকর্তা ও তাদের ভাষায় পাঞ্জাবি সেনাবাহিনীর কর্তৃত্বে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানিরা মনে করত, তারা ঔপনিবেশিক শাসকের প্রজা।

১৯৪৭ সালের পর থেকেই ব্যাপারটা তাদের মনঃপূত হয়নি। সেই ১৯৬০-এর দশকের শুরুতে আমার বাঙালি সহকর্মীরা পরস্পরকে জেনারেল বলে ডাকত। পূর্ব পাকিস্তান স্বাধীন হলে পরেই তারা কেবল ওই পদে উন্নীত হয়। তবে আমরা সবাই ব্যাপারটা রসিকতা হিসেবেই নিতাম। কিন্তু ১৯৭১ সাল তামাশা ছিল না। তখন প্রত্যেক বাঙালিই নিজেকে নিপীড়িত মনে করতেন। যাদের তাঁরা ‘শালা পাঞ্জাবি’ বলে গাল দিতেন, তাদের হাতেই তখন বাঙালিদের জীবন-মৃত্যু।

২০০৭ সালের ডিসেম্বর মাসে আমি ১৯৭১ সালের স্মৃতিচারণ করে বিবিসি উর্দু বিভাগকে এক দীর্ঘ সাক্ষাৎকার দিই। বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিযুদ্ধ জাদুঘর সেই সাক্ষাৎকারের একটি অনুলিপি চেয়েছিল। কিন্তু ওটা এত বড় ছিল যে আমার পক্ষে তা ট্রান্সক্রাইব, অনুবাদ ও টাইপ করা কঠিন ছিল। এই লেখায় আমি তার কিছু স্মরণ করার চেষ্টা করব।
আমি কেন পাগল হয়ে গেলাম? মনে হতো, সেনাবাহিনীর সম্মিলিত অপরাধের ভাগ আমারও আছে। খুব বেশি হলে সেনাবাহিনীর তৎপরতা এপ্রিলেই শেষ হওয়া উচিত ছিল। 

এরপর পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানে ফিরে গিয়ে দেখলাম, পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে যা ঘটেছে বা ঘটছিল তা নিয়ে কারও মাথাব্যথা নেই। হাজার হাজার নিরীহ মানুষকে খুন করা হচ্ছে, নারীদের ধর্ষণ করা হচ্ছে, লাখ লাখ মানুষ ঘরছাড়া হচ্ছে, কিন্তু পশ্চিম পাকিস্তান একেবারে ভাবলেশহীন। ব্যাপারটা এভাবেই চলছিল। 

জেনারেল টিক্কা খানকে ‘বাংলার কসাই’ আখ্যা দেওয়া হয়েছিল। তবে তিনি বড়জোর দুই সপ্তাহ নেতৃত্ব দিয়েছেন। এমনকি সেই দুই সপ্তাহে প্রকৃত নেতৃত্ব ছিল তাঁর সেকেন্ড-ইন-কমান্ড জেনারেল মিঠ্ঠার হাতে। জেনারেল মিঠ্ঠা আক্ষরিকভাবেই বাংলার প্রতিটি ইঞ্চি চিনতেন। জেনারেল নিয়াজি পৌঁছানোর আগ পর্যন্ত তিনিই সব অভিযানের নেতৃত্ব দিয়েছেন। এই পর্যায়ে জেনারেল মিঠ্ঠা জিএইচকিউয়ে ফিরে যান। 

গভর্নর হিসেবে জেনারেল টিক্কা ভালো প্রশাসক ছিলেন। সব সেবা যাতে চালু থাকে তিনি সেটা নিশ্চিত করেন। ট্রেন, ফেরি, ডাক সেবা, টেলিফোন লাইন—সবই চালু ছিল। অফিস খোলা ছিল। অন্যদিকে মে মাস নাগাদ পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে খাদ্যেরও অভাব ছিল না। 

সার্বিকভাবে বলা যায়, তখনকার প্রশাসনিক পরিস্থিতি আজকের পাকিস্তানের চেয়ে ভালো ছিল! কিন্তু আজকের পাকিস্তানের মতো তখনো কেউ সংখ্যালঘু ও গরিবদের নিয়ে মাথা ঘামাত না। আমার নাতনি এখন উইসকনসিন বিশ্ববিদ্যালয়ে যাবে নাকি হার্ভার্ড বিশ্ববিদ্যালয়ে যাবে তা নিয়ে আমার উদ্বেগ হয়। কিন্তু আমার নিজের গ্রামে বা লাহোরের উর্দু মাধ্যম স্কুলে পড়াশোনা হয় না, সেটা আর এখন আমার বা অন্য কারও উদ্বেগের কারণ নয়। অথচ আমি ৪০ বছর লাহোরে সচেতন নাগরিক হিসেবে দিনাতিপাত করেছি।

ঢাকায়ই আমি বেশি সময় ছিলাম। সেখানে ১৯৭১ সালের মধ্য এপ্রিল পর্যন্ত ভুতুড়ে পরিবেশ ছিল। যে ছোট মহলে আমি চলাফেরা করতাম, সেখানে ধীরে ধীরে স্বাভাবিকতা ফিরে আসে: সেনানিবাস, ঢাকা ক্লাব, হোটেল ইন্টারকন্টিনেন্টাল ও নিউ মার্কেটের কাছাকাছি এক চায়নিজ রেস্তোরাঁ। অধিকাংশ মানুষের মতো আমার দৃষ্টিও নিজের চৌহদ্দির বাইরে যায়নি। তবে শহরের নানা জায়গায় আমার যাতায়াত ছিল। 

আমার ভায়রা রিয়াজ আহমেদ সিপ্রা ঢাকার এসএসপি ছিলেন। আমাদের প্রায় প্রতিদিনই দেখা হতো। আমি নানা জায়গায় গেলেও বাঙালিদের হৃদয়ের ভেতরে আমার দৃষ্টি যেত না। তারা নির্বাক থাকলেও নিপীড়িত বোধ করত। বাঙালিরা এটাও জানত, উর্দিধারীদের হাতেই তাদের জানমালের ভাগ্য। বিভিন্ন সরকারি কার্যালয়ে মুসলিম লিগের নেতা ফজলুল কাদের চৌধুরী ও মওলানা ফরিদ আহমেদের সঙ্গে দেখা হতো। অন্যদিকে অধ্যাপক গোলাম আযম ও চৌধুরী রহমত এলাহি ভারতীয় সীমান্তে অন্তর্ঘাত চালানোর জন্য স্বেচ্ছাসেবী সরবরাহ করতে আমার সঙ্গে দেখা করতেন। 

যুক্তরাষ্ট্রে শিক্ষাদানরত ভারতীয় পণ্ডিত ড. ইয়াসমিন সাইকিয়া আমাকে একবার এক সত্য কাহিনি বলেছিলেন। তাঁকে যখন জিজ্ঞাসা করা হয়েছিল, ১৯৯০-এর দশকে তিনি বাংলাদেশ সফরে গিয়ে ধর্ষণের শিকার নারীদের খুঁজতে গিয়ে সহযোগিতা পাননি কেন? এর উত্তরে তিনি বলেন, এক ধর্ষিতা নারী তাঁকে বলেছিলেন, ‘যারা তাঁদের সেনাবাহিনীর হাতে তুলে দিত, তাঁরাই এখন শাসক।’

কেউ গল্প বলতে পারেন, গল্পের কাহিনির মোড় ঘুরিয়ে দিতে পারেন। ইতিহাসে না বলা কথারও গুরুত্ব আছে। আমি একবার দুই বাঙালি সেনাকে মুক্ত করে দিয়েছিলাম, তঁাদের হাতে অস্ত্র দিয়ে ইউনিফর্ম ফিরিয়ে দেওয়া হয়। ৯০ হাজার পাকিস্তানি সেনার সঙ্গে তারাও যুদ্ধবন্দী হয়। তারা তিন বছর ভারতীয় কারাগারে ছিল। ১৯৭৬ সালে লাহোরে এদের একজনকে আবিষ্কার করলাম, সে তখন বাবুর্চির কাজ করত। তাকে দেখে আমি বিস্মিত হয়ে বললাম, ‘কামাল-উদ-দিন, তুমি।’ সে জবাব দিল, ‘স্যার, আপনিই আমাকে এসবের মধ্যে এনেছেন।’ পাকিস্তানি সেনাবাহিনী তাদের ছুড়ে ফেলেছে। তাদের মধ্যে আরেকজন এখন ঢাকায় শিক্ষকতা করে।

না বলা কথাটি হচ্ছে, একদিন আমি কমান্ডো ইউনিটের এক প্রিয় সৈনিক সম্পর্কে সুবেদারকে জিজ্ঞাসা করলে তিনি অপ্রস্তুতভাবে বললেন, ‘স্যার, আজিজ-উল-হককে হত্যা করা হয়েছে।’ সেই সময় কাউকে কীভাবে হত্যা করা হয়েছে তা জিজ্ঞাসা করা সমীচীন না হলেও আমি তা জিজ্ঞাসা করে বসলাম। সুবেদার বললেন, ‘প্রথমে তাদের একটি সেলে নিয়ে যাওয়া হয় এবং তারপর গুলি করা হয়।’ আজ ৪০ বছর পরও আমি সবচেয়ে বাজে যে দুঃস্বপ্নটি দেখি তা হলো, আমার সহকর্মী সেনাদের কারাকক্ষে গুলি করে মারা হচ্ছে। আমার এরপরের প্রশ্ন ছিল: ‘কতজনকে মারা হয়েছে?’ সুবেদার জানালেন, ‘সেখানে ছয়জন ছিল, তবে দুজন বেঁচে গেছে। তারা মরার ভান করে পড়ে ছিল।’
বললাম, ‘তারা এখন কোথায়।’
‘কুমিল্লায়, হেফজাতে আছে।’

আমি ঢাকা থেকে কুমিল্লায় উড়ে গেলাম। গিয়ে দেখলাম, দুটি ভূত, তাদের প্রায় চেনা যায় না বললেই চলে। একজন সৈনিকের কাছে এর মানে কী তা যদি কেউ জানত! এটা হাজার হাজার মৃত্যুর ঝাপটা সহ্য করা বা হাজার মানুষের মৃত্যু ঘটানোর চেয়েও বেশি কিছু। আমি তাদের বের করে আনলাম। তাদের ইউনিফর্ম ও হাতিয়ার দেওয়ার নির্দেশ দিলাম। বললাম, বেতন নিয়ে তারা যেন ১০ দিন পর ফিরে আসে। তারা ফিরে এসে আমাদের সঙ্গে যুদ্ধ করল। এরপর তারা যুদ্ধবন্দী হয়। অনেক ঝামেলার পর ১৯৭৬ সালে তারা দেশে ফিরে গেল। এই গল্পগুলো কথকের ওপর নির্ভর করে।

স্বেচ্ছায় পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে যাওয়াটাই আমার অপরাধ। কারণ, সব সেনাসদস্যই তো একই পোশাক পরে। ঢাকার এয়ারফোর্স মেসে দেখেছি, সহকর্মীরা কত মানুষ মেরেছে তা নিয়ে গর্ব করত। টনি নামের এপিপির এক সাংবাদিক লন্ডনে পালিয়ে গিয়ে টাইমস অব লন্ডন-এ সেনা কর্মকর্তাদের নৃশংসতার বিবরণ প্রকাশ করেছেন। এসব পড়ে আমার অপরাধবোধ বেড়ে গেছে। আমরা সবাই একই অপরাধের ভাগী। আমরা অনেকেই হয়তো সরাসরি কাউকে হত্যা করিনি। কিন্তু আমরা চোখ বুজে ছিলাম। ইতিহাস আমাদের ক্ষমা করবে না।

ইংরেজি থেকে অনুবাদ প্রতীক বর্ধন

সূত্র: পাঞ্জাবি লেখকদের ব্লগ https://uddari.wordpress.com/…/liberation-war-historicizin…/
নাদির আলি: অবসরপ্রাপ্ত পাকিস্তানি সেনা কর্মকর্তা, ১৯৭১-এ বাংলাদেশে কর্মরত; পাঞ্জাবি কবি ও ছোটগল্পকার।*


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## Banglar Bir

12:00 AM, September 01, 2017 / LAST MODIFIED: 12:18 AM, September 01, 2017
*99TH BIRTH ANNIVERSARY OF GENERAL MOHAMMAD ATAUL GHANI OSMANI*
*The man who inspired us during war*




General M A G Osmani with other freedom fighters.
Syed Muhammad Ibrahim Bir Protik

It was April 4, 1971, a little over a week after we had revolted against the Pakistan Army and the Pakistan government. I was then a member of the Second Battalion of the East Bengal Regiment, commonly known as Second Bengal. Being a second lieutenant and the junior most officer of the battalion, as tradition required, I was always with the Commanding Officer, and therefore had the opportunity to witness this historic moment. Colonel Mohammad Ataul Ghani Osmani was presiding over a meeting of senior Bengali officers who had by then revolted. 

The meeting was organised quite hastily and secretly, in the bungalow of the manager of the Teliapara Tea Garden in Habiganj district, near the border with India. Among the prominent attendees were Major Ziaur Rahman, Major K M Shafiullah, Major Khaled Mosharraf, Major Shafayat Jamil, and Major Kazi Nuruzzaman. The objective of the meeting was to coordinate the operations of the Second, Fourth and Eighth Battalions of the East Bengal Regiment which had joined the war of liberation. 

Colonel Osmani, who was short in stature, was known for his grey, luxuriant moustache. To my surprise, I found his hair and moustache to be shaved off completely. It was apparently to hide his identity while crossing the eastern border from Bangladesh into India. 

In the tumultuous early weeks of our liberation war, he was the symbol of unity for the rebel officers and soldiers of the East Bengal Regiment—nay, the ever-growing group of freedom fighters. Colonel Osmani was too senior to me to have any personal acquaintance with. As an aide to my commanding officer, Major K M Shafiullah, I was around the meeting table with maps, a lantern and a broken twig to be used as a pointer. Colonel Osmani, as he was then, left the tea garden soon after the meeting. 

Later we realised that the first chapter of a glorious history had just been written. Osmani appeared bold and decisive in the meeting. His English accent was similar to that of the British. During the nine-month war, we often received mails from the Headquarters of Bangladesh Forces (HQ BDF) located in Kolkata. My seniors testified that much of the plans, orders and their expressions were Osmani's own. 

After the victorious end of the war, Osmani continued to be the Commander-in-Chief of the Bangladesh Forces. Bangladesh Army, Bangladesh Navy, and Bangladesh Air Force were being organised as separate entities. Osmani relinquished his military post and responsibility in the first week of April 1972, and the respective Chief of Staff assumed responsibility for the newly organised Bangladesh Navy and Bangladesh Air Force and the reorganised Bangladesh Army. Osmani was given the rank of a four-star General effective from the day of the victory. 

His dedication to youth development and leadership was exceptional. Before joining the army, I was a student of the famous The East Pakistan Cadet College, which in 1964 became Faujdarhat Cadet College. By 1971, there were four cadet colleges in East Pakistan. These were modelled after and run more or less like British public schools, focusing on preparing the youth for leadership in various sectors of the country, by imparting an all-round education. The colleges had large grounds and well-constructed academic and residential buildings. 

In independent Bangladesh, early in 1972, the then government announced its decision to close down the four cadet colleges, including Faujdarhat Cadet College, and convert these into normal schools and colleges. The old cadets of Faujdarhat played a pioneering role in the “Save Cadet College Campaign.” It was also joined by the well-wishers of the cadet college system. Their movement to keep the cadet colleges open and functional would not have succeeded if Osmani had not taken sides with the boys. It is he who pleaded with Bangabandhu to allow the colleges to function. Ultimately, Bangabandhu decided in favour of retaining the system. 

In early April 1972, Osmani was made a minister in the cabinet with Bangabandhu as President. But he continued to assist Bangabandhu in matters related to the war of liberation. The committee that finally decided on matters to the gallantry awards was headed by him.

Today, as we observe his 99th birth anniversary, I feel Osmani remains a largely unsung hero. I have come across a number of his biographies, mostly written in Bengali language and only one in English. I just hope today's generation will study and find inspiration from Osmani's rich and illustrious life and career.
_Major General (Retd) Syed Muhammad Ibrahim Bir Protik is a Freedom Fighter and Chairman, Bangladesh Kallyan Party._
http://www.thedailystar.net/opinion/tribute/the-man-who-inspired-us-during-war-1456906


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## Banglar Bir

* তিনি আওয়ামীলীগ করতেন না এটাই কি তার অপরাধ ?*




*তিনি আওয়ামীলীগ করতেন না এটাই কি তার অপরাধ ?*
*সঞ্জীব চৌধুরী একজন মুক্তিযোদ্ধা ছিলেন। তিনি আওয়ামীলীগ করতেন না, এমনকি আওয়ামী ঘরানার বামও ছিলেন না। ছিলেন একজন নন আওয়ামী ন্যশনালিস্ট। তার পাসপোর্ট আটক করা হয়েছিল, তিনি বিদেশে চিকিৎসার জন্য যেতে চেয়েছিলেন কিন্তু পাসপোর্ট ফেরত পাননি। তার ছেলেকে ধরে পকেটে ইয়াবা ভরে দিয়ে ফাঁসিয়ে দেয়া হয়েছিল। তার অপরাধ তিনি আমার দেশে কাজ করতেন, সংখ্যালঘু সম্প্রদায়ের মানুষ হয়েও সংখ্যালঘু আইডেন্টিটি পলিটিক্স করেননি। তিনি গতকাল মারা গেছেন। আর হ্যা একজন মুক্তিযোদ্ধার প্রাপ্য গার্ড অব অনার তিনি পাননি।

আমরা চোখের জলে একজন বীর দেশপ্রেমিক মুক্তিযোদ্ধাকে অন্তিম অভিবাদন জানাই। দেশপ্রেমিক বীরদের স্মৃতি জনগনের মধ্যে এভাবেই অনন্তকাল জাগরূক থাকে।
ডা. পিনাকি ভট্টাচার্য অধ্যাপক রাজশাহী মেডিক্যাল কলেজ*
http://rtnews24.net/social-opinion/76953

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## bluesky

Janbaz Rao said:


> You guys are highly ungrateful.Shame on you for forgetting them and giving them a due credit for your freedom.BD should be proud of them.Your fore mother was a hindu and forefather were parsi and sikh respectively.Cheers



No, You are wrong. No Parsi, no Hindu and no Bangali. It was Yahiya Khan and ZA Bhutto who should be regarded as the joint father of BD nation. We should discard our fallacy and call them BD fathers. Only because of the felony they perpetrated on the people of east Pakistan we started fighting. You can also add the names of Gen. Niazi, Gen. Tikka Khan and Gen. Rao Farman Ali khan as our three more national fathers.


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## Shahzaz ud din

bluesky said:


> No, You are wrong. No Parsi, no Hindu and no Bangali. It was Yahiya Khan and ZA Bhutto who should be regarded as the joint father of BD nation. We should discard our fallacy and call them BD fathers. Only because of the felony they perpetrated on the people of east Pakistan we started fighting. You can also add the names of Gen. Niazi, Gen. Tikka Khan and Gen. Rao Farman Ali khan as our three more national fathers.


Rao Farman Ali Khan (Late) when he was alive I had oportunity to listen him on several occasion.People were always curiouse asking him question about what happened in East Pak.He was then incharge of civil affairs during the East Pak insurgency.
On the bases of what I heard from him a very important person at that time.I came to the conclusion that,s Why i remind my BD brothers and sisters to correct their historical mistake and give due credit to the people who were the actual architect of Bangladesh.It was planned immediately after the 1962 Indian defeat by China that East Pak due to its stretegic location would not be the part of Pak in coming future.Otherwise It would be a permanent threat for the soverenity of India.Russia and India fully backed by UK & US were the actual mastermind of conspiracy.

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## Banglar Bir

__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## Banglar Bir




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## Banglar Bir

__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## Banglar Bir

*Part #1 of 19




Liberation War 1971 & Awami League: Part 01/19
*
Desh Amar Mati Amar




*Liberation War 1971 & Awami League: Part 03/19
Liberation War 1971 & Awami League: Part 04/19*


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## Banglar Bir

*India’s Jewish general and the liberation of Bangladesh*
Bernard-Henri Levy
Published at 06:54 PM September 10, 2017




*It is at this moment that a high-ranking Indian officer, without notifying his superiors, pulls off one of the most spectacular bluffs in modern military history*
*(Translated from the French by Olivier Litvine)
It’s quite a story.*
This story may seem unlikely in this era of generalised war between cultures, civilisations, and religions. And I am grateful to British journalist Ben Judah for having brought it to light in an article that appeared in the Jewish Chronicle the day after Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Israel.

The time is December 1971.The place is the territory then known as East Pakistan.
Separated by 1,600 kilometres from West Pakistan, this Bengali part of Pakistan has been in rebellion since March.

The central government in Islamabad, rejecting the secession of what will eventually become Bangladesh, is engaged in a merciless repression, the cost of which, in lives, remains unknown even today, almost a half-century later. Half a million people may have died, or perhaps a million or two, or more.

On December 3, India decides to enter the conflict, to “interfere,” as one would put it today, in the domestic affairs of its neighbour so as to stop the bloodbath.

The fighting rages.
The Bengali freedom fighters, known as the Mukti Bahini, now supported by India, become increasingly daring.

New Delhi’s strategy is to build up slowly and gradually, a decision. This strategy seems to many ill-suited to the Bangladesh of the day, a terrain of few roads, major rivers, and innumerable marshes. Thirteen days into the new phase of the war, with the Pakistanis having massed 90,000 troops around Dhaka, the capital, against the Indians’ 3,000, New Delhi appears to be stuck and has hardly boxed itself into the beginnings of a siege. 

And it is at this moment that a high-ranking Indian officer, without notifying his superiors, takes a plane, lands in Dhaka, presents himself to General Niazi, head of the Pakistani forces and pulls off one of the most spectacular bluffs in modern military history: “You have 90,000 men,” the Indian officer tells Niazi. “We have many more, plus the Mukti Bahini, who are ready to seek vengeance for their people and will give no quarter. Under the circumstances, you have only one choice: To persist in a fight that you cannot win or to sign this letter of surrender that I have drafted in my own hand, which promises you an honourable retreat. You have half an hour to decide; I’ll go have a smoke.”

Niazi, falling into the trap, chooses the second option.

To the world’s amazement, three thousand Indian soldiers accept the surrender of 90,000 Pakistanis.

Tens of thousands—no—hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides are spared.
And Bangladesh is free!

The story might have ended there.

Except that the general behind the masterly coup that makes him godfather to a new Muslim country is Jewish.
*His name is Jack Jacobs.*
He was born in 1924 in Calcutta into a Sephardic family that had arrived there from Baghdad two centuries before, leaving behind two thousand years of history.

In 1942, learning of the ongoing extermination of Europe’s Jews, he enlists in the British army in Iraq, fights in North Africa and then moves on to Burma and Sumatra in the campaign against the Japanese.

And remaining in the military after the independence of India in 1947, he is the only Jew to rise high in the country’s military services, eventually coming to command the eastern army that, in December 1971, will be mounting the offensive against Islamabad’s legions.

It so happened that I met this man 46 years ago.
I was in rebellious Bangladesh, having responded to French novelist André Malraux’s call for the formation of an International Brigade to fight for a Bengali land still in limbo but suffering mightily under the hand of West Pakistan.

I had just entered Dhaka with a unit of the Mukti Bahini.
In the company of Rafiq Hussain—eldest son of the first Bangladeshi family to welcome me into their home in the Segun Bagicha neighbourhood, and who later became my friend—I saw Jacob at Race House on December 16, standing behind (and letting himself eclipsed by) his colleague, General Jagjit Singh Aurora, signing, in Niazi’s presence, the act of surrender that he had penned.

The next day, I happened to see him again with a handful of journalists and heard him speak of Malraux, whom he was reading; of Yeats, whose poems he knew by heart; of his twin Jewish and Indian identity; of Israeli General Moshe Dayan, whom he worshipped; and of the liberation of Jerusalem, which he held as an example of military skill. But to my recollection he said nothing about the intensely dramatic, stirringly romantic, face-to-face encounter with Niazi in which the war of personality carried a thousand times more weight than the war between armies – an encounter that determined the fate of the young Bangladesh.

I can picture his mischievous look.
His rather heavy silhouette, unimposing in itself though emanating an incontestable authority.

And his strange and reticent way of remaining a step or two behind his comrades in arms, generals Aurora and Manekshaw, as if reluctant to claim any credit for a feat of audacity that I now know was his alone.

He appeared to me, that day, like a representative of one of the lost tribes, spreading the genius of Judaism.

He might have been a Kurtz from Kaifeng, Konkan, Malabar,or Gondar, newly returned from the heart of darkness but ready to head back up the river. Or a biblical Lord Jim or Captain Mac Whirr, done for good with typhoons and ready to forge an alliance with the coolies.

People who save Jews are known in Judaism as righteous. How should one refer to a Jew who saved, raised to nationhood, and baptized a people who were not his own?
*Bernard-Henri Lévy is a French public intellectual, media personality and renowned author. He is regarded as “perhaps the most prominent intellectual in France today.” Lévy became a pre-eminent journalist, having started his career as a war correspondent for Combat, the newspaper founded underground by Albert Camus during the German occupation of France. In 1971, Lévy travelled to the Indian subcontinent, and was based in Bangladesh covering the Bangladesh Liberation War against Pakistan. This experience was the source of his first book, Bangladesh, Nationalisme dans la révolution (“Bangladesh, Nationalism in the Revolution”, 1973).*

*Olivier Litvine is former director of Alliance Fraicaise, Dhaka.*
http://www.dhakatribune.com/magazin.../indias-jewish-general-liberation-bangladesh/


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## Shahzaz ud din

Banglar Bir said:


> *India’s Jewish general and the liberation of Bangladesh*
> Bernard-Henri Levy
> Published at 06:54 PM September 10, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It is at this moment that a high-ranking Indian officer, without notifying his superiors, pulls off one of the most spectacular bluffs in modern military history*
> *(Translated from the French by Olivier Litvine)
> It’s quite a story.*
> This story may seem unlikely in this era of generalised war between cultures, civilisations, and religions. And I am grateful to British journalist Ben Judah for having brought it to light in an article that appeared in the Jewish Chronicle the day after Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Israel.
> 
> The time is December 1971.The place is the territory then known as East Pakistan.
> Separated by 1,600 kilometres from West Pakistan, this Bengali part of Pakistan has been in rebellion since March.
> 
> The central government in Islamabad, rejecting the secession of what will eventually become Bangladesh, is engaged in a merciless repression, the cost of which, in lives, remains unknown even today, almost a half-century later. Half a million people may have died, or perhaps a million or two, or more.
> 
> On December 3, India decides to enter the conflict, to “interfere,” as one would put it today, in the domestic affairs of its neighbour so as to stop the bloodbath.
> 
> The fighting rages.
> The Bengali freedom fighters, known as the Mukti Bahini, now supported by India, become increasingly daring.
> 
> New Delhi’s strategy is to build up slowly and gradually, a decision. This strategy seems to many ill-suited to the Bangladesh of the day, a terrain of few roads, major rivers, and innumerable marshes. Thirteen days into the new phase of the war, with the Pakistanis having massed 90,000 troops around Dhaka, the capital, against the Indians’ 3,000, New Delhi appears to be stuck and has hardly boxed itself into the beginnings of a siege.
> 
> And it is at this moment that a high-ranking Indian officer, without notifying his superiors, takes a plane, lands in Dhaka, presents himself to General Niazi, head of the Pakistani forces and pulls off one of the most spectacular bluffs in modern military history: “You have 90,000 men,” the Indian officer tells Niazi. “We have many more, plus the Mukti Bahini, who are ready to seek vengeance for their people and will give no quarter. Under the circumstances, you have only one choice: To persist in a fight that you cannot win or to sign this letter of surrender that I have drafted in my own hand, which promises you an honourable retreat. You have half an hour to decide; I’ll go have a smoke.”
> 
> Niazi, falling into the trap, chooses the second option.
> 
> To the world’s amazement, three thousand Indian soldiers accept the surrender of 90,000 Pakistanis.
> 
> Tens of thousands—no—hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides are spared.
> And Bangladesh is free!
> 
> The story might have ended there.
> 
> Except that the general behind the masterly coup that makes him godfather to a new Muslim country is Jewish.
> *His name is Jack Jacobs.*
> He was born in 1924 in Calcutta into a Sephardic family that had arrived there from Baghdad two centuries before, leaving behind two thousand years of history.
> 
> In 1942, learning of the ongoing extermination of Europe’s Jews, he enlists in the British army in Iraq, fights in North Africa and then moves on to Burma and Sumatra in the campaign against the Japanese.
> 
> And remaining in the military after the independence of India in 1947, he is the only Jew to rise high in the country’s military services, eventually coming to command the eastern army that, in December 1971, will be mounting the offensive against Islamabad’s legions.
> 
> It so happened that I met this man 46 years ago.
> I was in rebellious Bangladesh, having responded to French novelist André Malraux’s call for the formation of an International Brigade to fight for a Bengali land still in limbo but suffering mightily under the hand of West Pakistan.
> 
> I had just entered Dhaka with a unit of the Mukti Bahini.
> In the company of Rafiq Hussain—eldest son of the first Bangladeshi family to welcome me into their home in the Segun Bagicha neighbourhood, and who later became my friend—I saw Jacob at Race House on December 16, standing behind (and letting himself eclipsed by) his colleague, General Jagjit Singh Aurora, signing, in Niazi’s presence, the act of surrender that he had penned.
> 
> The next day, I happened to see him again with a handful of journalists and heard him speak of Malraux, whom he was reading; of Yeats, whose poems he knew by heart; of his twin Jewish and Indian identity; of Israeli General Moshe Dayan, whom he worshipped; and of the liberation of Jerusalem, which he held as an example of military skill. But to my recollection he said nothing about the intensely dramatic, stirringly romantic, face-to-face encounter with Niazi in which the war of personality carried a thousand times more weight than the war between armies – an encounter that determined the fate of the young Bangladesh.
> 
> I can picture his mischievous look.
> His rather heavy silhouette, unimposing in itself though emanating an incontestable authority.
> 
> And his strange and reticent way of remaining a step or two behind his comrades in arms, generals Aurora and Manekshaw, as if reluctant to claim any credit for a feat of audacity that I now know was his alone.
> 
> He appeared to me, that day, like a representative of one of the lost tribes, spreading the genius of Judaism.
> 
> He might have been a Kurtz from Kaifeng, Konkan, Malabar,or Gondar, newly returned from the heart of darkness but ready to head back up the river. Or a biblical Lord Jim or Captain Mac Whirr, done for good with typhoons and ready to forge an alliance with the coolies.
> 
> People who save Jews are known in Judaism as righteous. How should one refer to a Jew who saved, raised to nationhood, and baptized a people who were not his own?
> *Bernard-Henri Lévy is a French public intellectual, media personality and renowned author. He is regarded as “perhaps the most prominent intellectual in France today.” Lévy became a pre-eminent journalist, having started his career as a war correspondent for Combat, the newspaper founded underground by Albert Camus during the German occupation of France. In 1971, Lévy travelled to the Indian subcontinent, and was based in Bangladesh covering the Bangladesh Liberation War against Pakistan. This experience was the source of his first book, Bangladesh, Nationalisme dans la révolution (“Bangladesh, Nationalism in the Revolution”, 1973).*
> 
> *Olivier Litvine is former director of Alliance Fraicaise, Dhaka.*
> http://www.dhakatribune.com/magazin.../indias-jewish-general-liberation-bangladesh/


Here you g.One more addition to the list of the forefathers of Bangladesh.This time this gem is a *JEW.*
Oh my God one nation so many fore fathers.Except N.Saleemuallah rest were traiors.You guys have a whole family of fore father headed by a fore mother.Her name is Indira Gandhi.

























You guys are highly ungrateful.Shame on you for forgetting them and giving them a due credit for your freedom.BD should be proud of them.Your fore mother was a hindu and forefather were parsi and sikh respectively.Cheers


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## Banglar Bir

Janbaz Rao said:


> Here you g.One more addition to the list of the forefathers of Bangladesh.This time this gem is a *JEW.*
> Oh my God one nation so many fore fathers.Except N.Saleemuallah rest were traiors.You guys have a whole family of fore father headed by a fore mother.Her name is Indira Gandhi.
> You guys are highly ungrateful.Shame on you for forgetting them and giving them a due credit for your freedom.BD should be proud of them.Your fore mother was a hindu and forefather were parsi and sikh respectively.Cheers


Brother,is thread is not for blame gaming,nor is it meant for spreading hatred. Just correcting a long forgotten history,as few books/articles has been published in the International media about the 1971 war, along with their past reasons . An historical archive for the next generations to come.
Kindly contribute by posting the Pakistani views,as these will immensely help in enriching the forum.Salam.
Lets call Spade a Spade, and learn from our blunders.

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## Banglar Bir

__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## Samurai_assassin

Banglar Bir said:


> Brother,is thread is not for blame gaming,nor is it meant for spreading hatred. Just correcting a long forgotten history,as few books/articles has been published in the International media about the 1971 war, along with their past reasons . An historical archive for the next generations to come.
> Kindly contribute by posting the Pakistani views,as these will immensely help in enriching the forum.Salam.
> Lets call Spade a Spade, and learn from our blunders.


Certain sections of the BD elite want to revive the memories of war further creating animosity towards Pakistan.



Banglar Bir said:


> Brother,is thread is not for blame gaming,nor is it meant for spreading hatred. Just correcting a long forgotten history,as few books/articles has been published in the International media about the 1971 war, along with their past reasons . An historical archive for the next generations to come.
> Kindly contribute by posting the Pakistani views,as these will immensely help in enriching the forum.Salam.
> Lets call Spade a Spade, and learn from our blunders.


Certain sections of the BD elite want to revive the memories of war further creating animosity towards Pakistan.


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## Banglar Bir

*




 https://www.facebook.com/




জাতির পিতার পরম বন্ধু জুলফিকার আলি ভুট্টো, যে বাংলাদেশীদেরকে “শুঁয়োর কি বাচ্চা” বলছিলেন প্রকাশ্যে, বলেছিলেন “জাহান্নামে যায়ে”, তাকেই ’৭৪ এ এই বাংলাদেশেই দাওয়াত করে এনে লাল গালিচা সংবর্ধনা দিয়েছিলেন তার বলা “শুঁয়োর কি বাচ্চা”র জাতির পিতা...

আপনারা কেউ কি আগে কখনও দেখেছেন এই ভিডিওটা?
আমিও আগে কখনও দেখিনি এবং শুনিওনি।
কিন্তু, আজ প্রথম এই ভিডিওটা দেখে আমি একবারেই স্তব্ধ হয়ে গেছি...

পাকিস্তানীদের প্রতি আমার ঘৃণা এখন শত গুণ থেকে বেড়ে কোটি গুণ হয়েছে। ঠিক সমান ঘৃণা বেড়েছে এই ব্যক্তিটিকে লাল গালিচা সংবর্ধনা দেওয়া জাতির পিতার প্রতিও...

এই ভিডিওটি চোখে আঙ্গুল দিয়ে দেখিয়ে দেয় কোন দৃষ্টিতে পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানী শাসকরা তাকাতো পূর্ব পাকিস্তানী বাঙ্গালীদের দিকে। এত দিন জেনেছি পাকিস্তানীরা আমাদের শুধু অর্থনৈতিকভাবে শোষণ করেছে। এখন দেখছি না। তারা আমাদেরকে মানুষই ভাবত না। তারা আমাদেরকে গরু-ছাগলও নয়, তার চেয়েও নিকৃষ্ট ও মুসলমানদের কাছে হারাম একটি প্রানী শুঁয়োর বলে মনে করত।

ভিডিওতে জুলফিকার আলি ভুট্টো একটি জনসভায়, বাংলাদেশের জনগনকে “জাহান্নামে যায়ে” বলে অভিশাপ দিচ্ছে। আর তারপর “শুঁয়োর কি বাচ্চা” বলে সম্বোধন করছে। কিভাবে সম্ভব এইভাবে বলা? কতটা অসভ্য ছিল সে? একজন নেতা যদি এভাবে কথা বলতে পারে, সেখানে পাকিস্তানী জনগনের মনভাব কি তা সহজেই অনুমেয়। কত বড় ধৃষ্টতা এই জালিম খুনী চরিত্রহীন পাকিস্থানী শাসকের?

আর বাঙ্গালী জাতির পিতা হয়ে ঐ শাসককে বাংলার মাটিতে দাওয়াত?!!!
লাল গালিচা সংবর্ধনা?!!!
গলায় গলায় পিরিত এই স্বাধীন দেশের মাটিতে?!!!
স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশের সরকার প্রধানের গাড়ীতে ঐ শাসকের পতাকা?!!!
বঙ্গভবনে ঐ শাসকের পতাকা উত্তোলন?!!!
জনগণের বিক্ষোভের মুখেও ঐ শাসককে জাতীয় স্মৃতি সৌধে নিয়ে যাওয়া?!!!
ভুট্টোর গালি সত্যি প্রমাণ করে দিয়েছে জাতির পিতা...*


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## Banglar Bir




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## El Sidd

A separate homeland for the Rohingyas should be a viable solution. 

Parts of Bangldsh not native to Bengali speakers will be annexed.


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## mb444

El Sidd said:


> A separate homeland for the Rohingyas should be a viable solution.
> 
> Parts of Bangldsh not native to Bengali speakers will be annexed.




You really do need to lose your virginity. Trust me all that frustration internalised in your case is manifesting itself in ugly ways.


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## El Sidd

mb444 said:


> You really do need to lose your virginity. Trust me all that frustration internalised in your case is manifesting itself in ugly ways.



here have fun


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## Banglar Bir

El Sidd said:


> A separate homeland for the Rohingyas should be a viable solution.
> Parts of Bangladesh not native to Bengali speakers will be annexed.


Brilliant idea, you are indeed a guinness. To ensure a peaceful South Asia,I suggest that both IOK+Azad Kashmir SHOULD be granted full independence,to ensure a lasting sustainable peaceful solution, for our beleaguered Kashmiri Muslim brothers, simultaneously.


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## El Sidd

Banglar Bir said:


> Brilliant idea, you are indeed a guinness. To ensure a peaceful South Asia,I suggest that both IOK+Azad Kashmir SHOULD grant full independence to our beleaguered Kashmiri Muslim brothers simultaneously.
> View attachment 430853



Pakistan is a willing partner when it comes to problem solving as per UN mandate. 
And Pakistan can play a helpful part in enforcing such a mandate in bangdlsh

For a country based on race and ethnicity you should better avoid talking about Muslim brotherhood. 
Just a friendly advice. You have more to gain if you stick to your foundation myth.

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## MultaniGuy

Well the Bangladeshis should be happy now with their independence.

Be happy now.
Perhaps we can cooperate as separate states now.


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## Banglar Bir

El Sidd said:


> Pakistan is a willing partner when it comes to problem solving as per UN mandate.
> And Pakistan can play a helpful part in enforcing such a mandate in bangdlsh
> For a country based on race and ethnicity you should better avoid talking about Muslim brotherhood.
> Just a friendly advice. You have more to gain if you stick to your foundation myth.


Thanks a million,for your free advice,after all you are a genius like Einstein.

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## Joe Shearer

Banglar Bir said:


> Brilliant idea, you are indeed a guinness. To ensure a peaceful South Asia,I suggest that both IOK+Azad Kashmir SHOULD be granted full independence,to ensure a lasting sustainable peaceful solution, for our beleaguered Kashmiri Muslim brothers, simultaneously.
> View attachment 430853



He's not, unless he's dark and stout.


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## wiseone2

Samurai_assassin said:


> Certain sections of the BD elite want to revive the memories of war further creating animosity towards Pakistan.



If Pakistan calls spade a spade you would not have this bitterness
Pakistani textbooks gloss over the causes of the breakup


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## El Sidd

wiseone2 said:


> If Pakistan calls spade a spade you would not have this bitterness
> Pakistani textbooks gloss over the causes of the breakup



fascists rebelled in Pakistan. 

What do they teach you?


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## wiseone2

El Sidd said:


> fascists rebelled in Pakistan.
> 
> What do they teach you?



Awami League is fascist. Okay I see where we are going

Indian history books do not cover much of modern history


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## El Sidd

wiseone2 said:


> Awami League is fascist. Okay I see where we are going
> 
> Indian history books do not cover much of modern history



Then you don't know how your neighbour came into being. They should teach you that. 

How can you have an opinion in this if you don't know?

PK hay kia


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## wiseone2

El Sidd said:


> Then you don't know how your neighbour came into being. They should teach you that.
> 
> How can you have an opinion in this if you don't know?
> 
> PK hay kia



Why should school textbooks be only source of information ?

I have read the NY Times accounts of the whole war on my university microfilm. It makes for an interesting read.

An objective rendering of the whole situation was written by Pakistani army officer 
"Witness to surrender" by Siddiq Salik


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## El Sidd

wiseone2 said:


> Why should school textbooks be only source of information ?
> 
> I have read the NY Times accounts of the whole war on my university microfilm. It makes for an interesting read.
> 
> An objective rendering of the whole situation was written by Pakistani army officer
> "Witness to surrender" by Siddiq Salik



Lol

Lovely

So you are a good follower.

Let other tell you stuff


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## wiseone2

El Sidd said:


> Lol
> 
> Lovely
> 
> So you are a good follower.
> 
> Let other tell you stuff



I am not blindly taking what anyone says as "truth"
I get an idea as to what happened


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## El Sidd

wiseone2 said:


> I am not blindly taking what anyone says as "truth"
> I get an idea as to what happened



Whatever you will be saying will just be your truth.

Like seriously how wisely did you choose an avatar to be an Indian on a Pakistani forum.


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## mb444

El Sidd said:


> here have fun




Oh I see.... It all makes sense now....you are overcompensating ..... it's ok... come out of the closet dude... it's 2017 you will find many of us are perfectly accepting of sexual minorities... don't let your latent urges fester and as I said come out in negative ways.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## El Sidd

mb444 said:


> Oh I see.... It all makes sense now....you are overcompensating ..... it's ok... come out of the closet dude... it's 2017 you will find many of us are perfectly accepting of sexual minorities... don't let your latent urges fester and as I said come out in negative ways.



Never go full retard man.


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## mb444

El Sidd said:


> Never go full retard man.



Sagacious advice .... self application unwarranted I presume?


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## El Sidd

mb444 said:


> Sagacious advice .... self application unwarranted I presume?



Never assume - Cosmo Kramer


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## mb444

El Sidd said:


> Never assume - Cosmo Kramer



Oh dear..... one was hoping you could provide a little amusement as I pass time awaiting to board my plane... but alas you are quoting out of context a dysfunctional fictional character based on a show about nothing..... regretfully one must disengage due to magnitude of disparity between us....


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## El Sidd

mb444 said:


> Oh dear..... one was hoping you could provide a little amusement as I pass time awaiting to board my plane... but alas you are quoting out of context a dysfunctional fictional character based on a show about nothing..... regretfully one must disengage due to magnitude of disparity between us....



You just like your country craves our attention.
Walk it off now.


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## Samurai_assassin

wiseone2 said:


> If Pakistan calls spade a spade you would not have this bitterness
> Pakistani textbooks gloss over the causes of the breakup


 If you dare tune into reality you would know Bangladesh has become a state of India. Gloss over it as much as you want!


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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*



*বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী যাদুঘরের new member in the *
*BAF Museum নতুন সদস্য.....*
*রাশিয়ান Russian Mil Mi-4. used extensively in 1971 ops by IAF ১৯৭১ সালের মহান মুক্তিযুদ্ধে ভারতীয় বিমানবাহিনীর হয়ে বেশ কয়েকটি গুরুত্বপূর্ন অপারেশন পরিচালনা করেছিলো এই হেলিকপ্টার।*
*গত কাল/পরশু ভারতীয় বিমানবাহিনী এরকম ২ টি হেলিকপ্টার উপহার হিসেবে পাঠায়।*
*খুব শীঘ্রই এগুলো রাজধানী ঢাকার আগারগাঁও এর বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী যাদুঘরে দেখা যাবে*


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## Banglar Bir




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## Banglar Bir

01:11 PM, October 19, 2017 / LAST MODIFIED: 01:23 PM, October 19, 2017
*‘Birth of Bangladesh most significant event of life’*
*Pranab Mukherjee launches 3rd book ‘The Coalition Years’*
Star Online Report
*Former Indian President Pranab Mukherjee has said in an interview published today that the birth of an independent Bangladesh remains the “most significant” event in his long public life.*
Asked about any incident that stands out in his long political life, Mukherjee told The Times of India “To my mind it is Bangladesh, the birth of a nation of 12 or 13 crore people in 1971.”





Former President of India, Pranab Mukherjee on the cover of his new book,'The Coalition Years: 1996 to 2012'. Photo courtesy: Twitter@CitiznMukherjee

He said he still remembers that Indira Gandhi, the then prime minister, made a short statement in both houses of parliament saying "I am happy to inform the House that Pakistan army has surrendered to the joint command of the Indian army and the Bangladesh Mukti Bahini and now Dhaka is the free capital of free Bangladesh. That is the most significant event since I joined public life.”

Replying to a question if the birth of Bangladesh was a pronouncement on the two-nation theory, Mukherjee said “That will be an over-simplification of the whole issue because the two-nation theory was challenged at the very time of its pronouncement,” reports our New Delhi correspondent.

“It (the partition of Pakistan) once again established that mere religion cannot be the basis of a State. There are many other factors: religion, language, customs, culture and social systems.”

Asked if he thought that after the 1971 war win, India could have settled the Kashmir issue to its satisfaction, the former President said Indira Gandhi “took the wisest decision by declaring the unilateral ceasefire.”

“If India had not declared unilateral ceasefire, there would have been expansion of the conflict. It would have engulfed both India and Pakistan because America was bent on protecting the unity of western Pakistan after they had lost the hope on eastern Pakistan. 
Soviet Russia also did not want the war to be extended,” Mukherjee said.

Mukherjee, who was a senior Congress party leader and had occupied the post of President for five years since July 2012, is hitting the media headlines following the launch of his latest book “The Coalition Years” in India recently.

At the book launch function, Manmohan Singh, who was prime minister for two consecutive five-year terms since May, 2014, had said Mukherjee deserved to be the PM and the latter had reasons to be upset at not getting the post.

In his book, Mukherjee said he had, returning from a meeting with Congress President Sonia Gandhi, had a “vague” feeling that he would be made the prime minister
http://www.thedailystar.net/world/birth-bangladesh-most-significant-event-life-1478737


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## Banglar Bir

*Distortions in the history of the Liberation War 
আমরা দীর্ঘদিন জাইন্যা আসছি, এই ছবিটা পাকিস্তানি আর্মির। সে লুঙ্গী খুইল্যা চেক করতেছে ধৃত লোকটা হিন্দু নাকি মুসলমান। কেউ কেউ আবার এই ছবির ক্যাপশনে কাব্য ফলাইতো "হিন্দু না ওরা মুসলিম এই জিজ্ঞাসে কোন জন" বইল্যা। ম্যালা জায়গায় এখনো এই ছবিটা পাইবেন পাকিস্তানি আর্মি বইল্যা।

This is a pictre of an Indian Army soldier আসলে এই ছবিটা ইণ্ডিয়ান আর্মির। ছবিটা তুলছে কিশোর পারেখ আর ছবিটা ছাপা হইছিল বাংলাদেশ এ ব্রুটাল বার্থ বইয়ে। লোকটা রাজাকার সন্দেহে ধৃত আর ইন্ডিয়ান আর্মি চেক করতেছে তার লুঙ্গীর ভিতরে অস্ত্র আছে কিনা? এই ছবিটার মিথ ভাংছে ২০১৩ সালে। চিন্তা কইর‍্যা দেখেন, কেউ বুঝে নাই এতোদিন। তাইলে কি হেরা ইণ্ডিয়ান আর্মি বা পাকিস্তানি আর্মি কোনটাই দেখে নাই? দুই আর্মির তো ড্রেসই আলাদা।

এইরকম ম্যালা ভেজাল ছবি আমাদের মুক্তিযুদ্ধের ইতিহাসে ঢুইক্যা আছে। স্বাধীনতা মুক্তিযুদ্ধের দলিলপত্রের মতো আমাদের একটা মুক্তিযুদ্ধের পিয়ার রিভিউড আর্কাইভ দরকার। যেই জায়গায় মুক্তিযুদ্ধের অথেন্টিক ছবি পাওয়া যাইবে। ছবিটা কে তুলছে, কীভাবে তুলছে, কখন তুলছে, ছবিতে কাদের দেখা যাইতেছে এইসব থাকবে।
একটা জাতির রক্তাক্ত রাষ্ট্র বিপ্লবের ইতিহাসে কোন জঞ্জাল থাকা কাম্য নয়।
(ছবি,লেখা পিনাকী ভট্টাচার্য)*

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## Banglar Bir

*Bangabandhu’s March 7 speech listed as world’s documentary heritage*
Tribune Desk
Published at 11:04 AM October 31, 2017
Last updated at 11:09 AM October 31, 2017




On March 7 1971, Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman delivered a speech of independence at the Race Course Maidan, now known as Suhrawardy Udyan, in Dhaka *Wikimedia*
*The speech served as the ultimate source of inspiration for the countless freedom fighters who had joined the Mukti Bahini.*
Unesco has recognised the historic March 7 speech of Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman as part of the world’s documentary heritage.
Director General of Unesco Irina Bokova disclosed the matter at its Headquarters in Paris on Monday.

The speech was included in the Memory of the World International Register, a list of the world’s important documentary heritage maintained by Unesco.

The Memory of the World International Register is a list of documents that was created to ensure preservation of, and access to, documentary heritage in various parts of the world.

A document has to bear immense significance and form part of documentary heritage of the world at large to be included in the registrar.
*Also Read- The speech that inspired the birth of a nation*
“The world will now get to know more about our Father of the Nation Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and our glorious Liberation War”, said Foreign Minister Abul Hassan Mahmood Ali.

Bangabandhu’s speech provided inspiration to Bangali people in their quest for freedom and emancipation. It also energised the entire nation and prepared the people for the forthcoming the Liberation struggle.

The speech also served as the ultimate source of inspiration for the countless freedom fighters who had joined the Mukti Bahini.

Bangabandhu’s speech is played throughout Bangladesh during the various national occasions and continues to reverberate in hearts and minds of the people of the nation.

The International Advisory Committee during its meeting from October 24 to 27 recommended that the speech for inscription on the Memory of the World International Register.
The Memory of the World Register now includes a total of 427 documents and collection from all continents.
http://www.dhakatribune.com/banglad...-7-speech-listed-worlds-documentary-heritage/


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## Banglar Bir

01:56 PM, October 31, 2017 / LAST MODIFIED: 02:02 PM, October 31, 2017
*Timeline: From 1970 elections to March 7*
Star Online Report
*December 7, 1970:*
General elections result in victory for the Awami League. The party ends up obtaining majority in the National Assembly.
*
January 10, 1971:*
Pakistan People’s Party Chairman Zulfikar Ali Bhutto says his party will consider overall solidarity of Pakistan and assist in implementation of governance policy.

*January 12, 1971:*
Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman meets President Yahya Khan and discusses several important national issues for 2 hours. No specifics obtained.
*
January 14, 1971:*
Yahya Khan leaves Dhaka for Karachi. He tells reporters that Sheikh Mujib is soon to become the prime minister of Pakistan.
Reports say Yahya Khan agreed to hand over power to Sheikh Mujib.

*January 27, 1971:*
Pakistan People’s Party chief ZA Bhutto arrives in Dhaka to meet Awami League chief Sheikh Mujibur Rahman.
Sheikh Mujib and ZA Bhutto meet at a closed door meeting. Bhutto said he was delighted to have met Mujib and the two discussed on a lot of issues. Mujib says: “We just began our talks and will continue.”
*
January 28, 1971:*
A second closed door meeting is held.
Sheikh Mujib says the two discussed all national problems. Their topic of discussion did not come to light.
*
January 29, 1971:*
Talks between Sheikh Mujib and Bhutto end. The duo could not reach a unity. However, they both opined for further talks.
Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman advises President Yahya Khan to begin National Council sessions from February 15.

*January 30, 1971:*
Sheikh Mujib and Bhutto go on a boat trip. Sources say, the two leaders split from the others and went on a cruise alone together for 2 hours.

*February 14, 1971:*
President Yahya Khan calls for National Assembly Session on March 3 in Dhaka.
*
February 18, 1971:*
Pakistan People’s Party Chairman Zulfikar Ali Bhutto rules out any possibility of treaty or pact to have an agreement between Awami League and Peoples Party.
*
February 28, 1971:*
Bhutto says dangerous situation will emerge if political standoff happens within the national assembly.
A draft governance policy is proposed at an Awami League meeting. It would be presented at National Assembly after approval.
*
March 1, 1971:*
President Yahya suspends the national committee session.
Upon hearing the news, Dhaka city erupts in anger and eventually people take to the streets. Business centres in the city close down as well.
Sheikh Mujib objects to the suspension He calls for a hartal/strike in Dhaka on 2nd March, countrywide strike on 3rd March and a rally in Race course field on 7th March.
*
March 2, 1971:*
In a historic student rally held in Bottola of the Dhaka University Premises, the Bangladesh flag with the Map of Bangladesh inlaid in it is hoisted.
In the afternoon, the Pakistani flag is pulled down and the Bangladeshi Flag inlaid with Bangladesh map is hoisted in the Dhaka University and in the Secretariat premises.
At night, a curfew is imposed in the Dhaka City. Throughout the city the curfew is broken and barricades are formed. Military opens fire on protesters. Reckless shots are fired at everyone who broke the curfew in various areas.
*
March 4, 1971:*
During the strike, 6 people are martyred in Khulna, and in Chittagong, the death toll including March 4, rises at 121.
Sheikh Mujib says, without sacrifice no country has ever achieved independence.
Half-day hartals called for 5 & 6 March.
*
March 5, 1971:*
On the fifth day of the hartal, armed forces open fire hurting 29. Upon receiving this news, people in Dhaka city burst in anger.
In Dhaka, announcements are made saying that the army has been moved back to the barracks.
*
March 7, 1971:*
Sheikh Mujib, in a historical congregation of almost 10 lakh people and in a 20 minute long speech announces “Ebarer Shongram amader muktir shongram, Ebarer shongram, shadhinotar Shongram” (This war is a war for independence, this war is a war for Freedom)
Authorities are forced to allow the speech to be broadcasted and in deep into the night Bangabandhu’s speech is decided to be aired.
_Source: Freedom in the Air _
http://www.thedailystar.net/country/1970-elections-march-7-1484383


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## Banglar Bir




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## Banglar Bir

*The India Doctrine
History is bound to reveal the truth ইতিহাস শুধু কথা বলে না, বরং ইতিহাস কথা বলতে বাধ্য!
তিনি সেদিন জয় বাংলার সাথে জয় পাকিস্তানও বলেছিলেন এটা দিনের আলোর ন্যায় স্পষ্ট। বইয়ের লেখক সম্পর্কে নতুন করে পরিচয় করিয়ে দেওয়ার মত কিছু নেই।
বইয়ের পিডিএফ- *
https://goo.gl/3H4nnh
*On 07 March 1971 historic speech,Sheikh Mujibur Rahman uttered "Joy Bangla" alongside "Joy Pakistan"*

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## BDforever

Female freedom fighters in 1971

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## Banglar Bir

BDforever said:


> Female freedom fighters in 1971
> View attachment 435969


Most likely at Iqbal Hall of DU, during early March 1971,however not quite sure.

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## Banglar Bir

*Can we not stop this? 
Why this living people are being given fake Muktijoddha status? Rather we make an union wise list of who were martyred/Shaheeds. They do not want anything but recognition.*




*Born 9 years after the Liberation, now a Freedom Fighter*
স্বাধীনতার ৯ বছর পর জন্ম নিলেও মিজান মুক্তিযোদ্ধা!
Jugantor
*ন্যাপ-কমিউনিস্ট পার্টি-ছাত্র ইউনিয়নের গেরিলা বাহিনীর সদস্য মিজানুর রহমান মিজান চট্টগ্রাম জেলার ১২৫ নম্বর মুক্তিযোদ্ধা। যদিও স্বাধীনতার ৯ বছর পর তার জন্ম। ১৯৮০ সালের ৩ জুলাই আনোয়ারা উপজেলার হাজীগাঁও গ্রামে তিনি জন্মগ্রহণ করেন। মিজানের জাতীয় পরিচয়পত্রের সূত্র ধরে এমন তথ্য পাওয়া গেছে বলে মুক্তিযুদ্ধবিষ...*
JUGANTOR.COM


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## Banglar Bir



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## Banglar Bir

12:00 AM, November 18, 2017 / LAST MODIFIED: 12:40 AM, November 18, 2017
*A piece of history rusting away*




The salvaged MV Akram lies neglected at Shahen Shah Dockyard by Shitalakhya river in Bandar upazila of Narayanganj. The ship used to carry supplies for the Pakistan occupation forces during the Liberation War. 
The freedom fighters sunk the vessel by setting a mine underneath it on October 30 in 1971. The photo was taken recently. Photo: Star
Sanad Saha and Hasan Meer
*They were waiting for the sun to set.*
Once the evening spread out against the sky, the group slowly but surely headed toward their destination -- London Ghat in Dakatia river near Chandpur river port.

Soon, the moon sunk beneath a black cloud, and the night became darker and quieter than ever. Maybe a murmur here and there.

But the group did not pay any heed. They had a mission to complete.

It was October. The 30th to be exact. The year -- 1971.

And their mission was to sink MV Akram, a ship that carried supplies including food and weapons for the Pakistan occupation army.

The ship used to guard the Padma estuary. On information that it would be docked at London Ghat, the group undertook the mission.

On that night, the freedom fighters set up a mine underneath the ship and were able to sink it, and thus denying the occupying army the resources they needed.

Then after independence, the ship went under the ownership of Bangladesh Shilpa Bank.

Many years went by, it changed many hands and many attempts were made to lift it from the bottom of the river, but to no avail. Eventually, the ship including the history of courage and patriotism just sank into oblivion.

Then in 2007, it was purchased by some Narayanganj sand traders. In November, 2008, after much effort they were able to lift it from the bottom of the river. The owners brought it to Shahen Shah Dockyard by Shitalakhya river in Bandar upazila of Narayanganj.

*After finding out about the ship's history, freedom fighters demanded its preservation and the liberation war affairs ministry in August 2009 decided to preserve it.

But nine years went by; the ship remained at the dock, neglected.*

Finally this year, after continuous demand from the freedom fighters and civil society members, Bangladesh Inland Water Transport Authority (BIWTA) has started the process of preserving MV Akram.

It will soon be taken to Karnaphuli Dockyard, around 3km from the Shahen Shah Dockyard, for renovation, according to BIWTA. Once renovated, MV Akram will be taken to the Military Museum in the capital. It will be preserved and displayed as a Liberation War memorabilia there.

Built in Holland in 1965, the ship was owned by United Trading Corporation and Industrial Bank of Pakistan. It was around 180-foot long and weighed around 688 metric tonnes, said Kazi Nasir, deputy commander of Bandar Upazila Freedom Fighters' Council.

Risking their lives, the naval commandos led by Momin Ullah Patwary Bir Pratik that night successfully sunk the ship, he added. “But due to negligence of the authorities concerned, an important evidence of our history is lying neglected. It should be preserved at once.”

During a visit this week, the newspaper saw that the half-sunk rusty ship was at the dock owned by one Shahen Shah.

Many of the locals alleged that over the years some unscrupulous persons had stolen parts of the ship and sold those.

Sand trader Moktar Hossain, one of the owners of the ship, alleged that two persons had cut parts of the ship on June 29 this year. He said he lodged a complaint with Bandar Police Station on July 5.

“We bought the ship for Tk 14 lakh from a businessman after he failed to lift it from the river. He bought it at an auction held by the bank. It took us almost a year to lift it. Then we had to spend additional money to bring it to Narayanganj.”

He said they were hoping to make a profit by selling it. “But for the last nine years we could not do so and it's just lying here,” he said and demanded that they get compensated for their losses.

“We had been pursuing the ministry and BIWTA for compensation, but to no avail,” he alleged. In the meantime, local influential people had stolen almost one third of the ship including its engine, oil tank, wheel and plates, he alleged.

The dockyard owner, Shahen Shah, said he was also incurring losses. “No ship can pass through the spot as MV Akram is occupying the space. This ship is an important part of history. The government should not just leave it like this.”

Another owner of the ship, Sanwar Hossain, said, “We want the government to preserve the ship. But at the same time, we want compensation too.”

When asked, Abul Kalam, officer-in-charge of Narayanganj Bandar Police Station, said they have been guarding the ship so that no one could steal its parts. “We are also trying to recover the stolen parts and arrest the perpetrators.”

Dhiman Saha, general secretary of Shushashoner Jannoy Nagorik (SHUJAN), Narayanganj chapter, said, “The ship must be preserved. It bears testimony to the glorious chapter in the country's history.”

Abdur Rahman, general secretary of Narayanganj Nagarik Committee, and Mahbubur Rahman Masum, president of Narayanganj Press Club, echoed him.

Contacted, Gulzar Ali, BIWTA joint director (Narayanganj River Port), said, “We have already pumped out most of the water from inside the ship and cleaned the garbage. It will be taken to the Karnaphuli Dockyard soon for renovation.”

Regarding the compensation, he said, “They [the owners] had sent a letter to our head office. We have forwarded it to the shipping ministry. They will take a decision soon...”

Contacted, Rabbi Miah, deputy commissioner of Narayanganj, said, “As per direction of the shipping ministry, the ship will be taken to the Military Museum from the Karnaphuli Dockyard after renovation. It will be preserved and displayed there as a Liberation War memorabilia.”

He also added, “Regarding the expenditure of transporting the ship as well as compensating the owners, the ministries concerned [Shipping and Liberation War ministries] are in talks. The issue will be finalised soon.”
http://www.thedailystar.net/city/piece-history-rusting-away-1492906

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## Banglar Bir

*Anirban - Bangladesh Armed Forces Day 2017*


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## Banglar Bir

12:00 AM, December 04, 2017 / LAST MODIFIED: 12:00 AM, December 04, 2017
*From the labyrinth of memory*
*A glorious chapter was added to world history on December 16, 1971. A proud new nation, Bangladesh, was born out of a nine-month armed struggle at a great cost of human lives, untold suffering and sacrifice. We, the Bangalees in Pakistan were ecstatic with joy. However, soon the reality also dawned upon us that we were stranded in Pakistan. The million dollar question was, when and how shall we all go back to liberated Bangladesh? There would be long months of anxious waiting and uncertainty ahead of us.*




Waqar A. Khan
*In the months of 1972, Bangalees living singly and with families in Islamabad, Rawalpindi, Lahore and Karachi started to escape from Pakistan primarily through the semi-autonomous tribal areas of the then North West Frontier Province (NWFP) of Pakistan into Afghanistan for the onward journey to India and then ultimately to Bangladesh.* 
From Peshawar along the Khyber Pass via Torkham to Afghanistan, hidden in goods-laden trucks bound for Afghanistan or, through tribal areas on mule-back and foot, were the most sought after escape routes and, perhaps the easiest way out of Pakistan then. 

The Pashtun/Pathan tribal smuggling cartels made a lucrative business out of illegally transporting human commodity for a change, especially through the unchartered, rugged, often dangerous mountainous terrain on foot and mule backs.

By mid-1972, a few of us Bangalee youths in Islamabad, Pakistan, started to secretly plan our “Great Escape” at an opportune time via the North West frontier of Pakistan into Afghanistan. Our “D Day” finally arrived in mid-December, 1972. Uncle Abdul Bari, a Bangalee career officer, formerly in the Pakistan Foreign Service, arranged our clandestine trip to Kabul. 

He had made reliable contacts with a Pashtun/Pathan smuggling cartel who were successfully ferrying Bangalees out of Pakistan. We were altogether six young men—late Tarik Ahsan (Shomi), friend Taufiq, cousin Masud, our neighbour uncle Bari's son and nephew, Bitu and Bacchu and myself. We each packed bare essentials in small suitcases for the trip. 

On December 17 we began our journey at 3am from Islamabad in a large, old Chevrolet with a Pathan driver and his helper. It was a beautiful night with a clear sky and full moon. It was cold and we had dressed accordingly. We sped along the known highway towards Peshawar, only 90 miles away. 

After about three hours we went past the historic Attock fort and crossed the strategically located Attock bridge in the morning. By then we had left Punjab and entered the then North West Frontier Province (NWFP). Soon we were in Peshawar city and went by many a familiar sight. After a short ride we were lodged at a safe-house in the outskirts of the city in a village for rest and lunch. It was already noon.




Shah-Do Shamshira mosque across the river, Kabul, December, 1972. Photo: Waqar A. Khan
At 3pm we started to move again and heaved a sigh of relief once we left the directly controlled Pakistani territory and started cruising down the semi-autonomous tribal belt. Our car hurtled endlessly on dirt roads with potholes. 

Finally we arrived at a rubble strewn valley ringed by awesome mountains and saw fortified mud houses with high walls and watch towers. Everyone here was armed with a rifle. Our car came to a stop in front of a house with a big, crude wooden door. The house belonged to an important tribal chief, we were informed. We were ushered into an outhouse within the courtyard of the fortified compound by a group a friendly Pathans and treated to some welcome tea. It was already 4 pm in the afternoon. We were lodged here for the night.

Next day around 6pm over a simple diet of Naan roti (unleavened bread) and tea, we left with a new group of Pathan guides in a car and arrived at a hamlet in the back of the Landi Kotal bazaar. Here we were to rest for a while and wait while the mule-train was brought in for our real journey ahead through the heights, that is, unchartered routes to Afghanistan. We whiled away the time leisurely gossiping and smoking cigarettes. 

It was now almost 9 pm. The night sky was splendidly azure and clear. There was a full moon. It looked radiant and spread a brilliant effulgence all around. We could even make out the mud houses that dotted the rocky terrain in the distance. The star spangled sky seemed to promise us an auspicious journey ahead. The air was cool and crisp. I took it all in, lungs full of it. It energised me. I told the others to do the same. It would dispel fear and negative thoughts, I said. Then very strangely, there came a sweet fragrance wafting in the cold breeze from nowhere. It seemed heaven sent. I assured myself that nothing could possibly go wrong from here on, Insha'Allah!

The motions for the actual journey started at around 10pm. There was feverish activity amidst much haranguing and cursing by the Pathans. We were hauled up on a mule each with our luggage, after which we were tightly strapped to the mule back with thick ropes. We had four guides in all. For the next four hours we traversed through undulating landscapes, scaled precipitous craggy heights, went down into valleys and barely made it through mountain sides with mule tracks of minimal width. All around us were deep ravines and gorges. Just a little slip would have sent us tumbling down to our inevitable deaths. No one could have retrieved our mangled bodies.

Around 3am, we were told that we had arrived on Afghan soil in Kandahar. We were jubilant. We cheered lustily, thanked the Almighty and shook hands with our guides. Slowly, we descended down a valley with looming mountains all around and stopped at a low grubby shack for rest and some sleep. At around 7am in the morning a battered microbus arrived along with a driver and helper. Our onward journey to Kabul would require eight hours, we were told. We left the valley and hit the road to Kabul.




The tomb of Mughal Emperor Babur, Kabul, 1972. Photo: Asefi
We travelled on roads through rugged mountainous terrain. The vegetation all around the valleys and lowlands had withered away in the intense cold. It was a bleak, barren and monotonous landscape. The few trees that were there displayed bare branches and gnarled roots. 

They stood like mute sentinels along the way. It had not snowed yet. From the looks of the villages, hamlets and people it soon transpired that we were in a very poor country. King Zahir Shah was then the absolute monarch. The kingdom was a feudal state. Much of the country seemed to be frozen in the medieval age. It was the first kingdom that I visited.

Closer to Kabul we started to descend from the Hindu Kush mountain chain. There were scary hairpin bends where our driver would suddenly swerve and careen dangerously close to the precipice, sending a shower of dust, diesel smoke and pebbles below. It made us dizzy. We closed our eyes and cringed every time he did so. There were awesome deep ravines and gorges that we passed by with the river snaking in between like a giant serpent.

At around 4pm we entered Kabul, the historic capital of Afghanistan, located high up on a narrow valley between the Hindu Kush mountains. We stopped at the Indian embassy, was kindly attended to by a young Sikh official who then patiently completed all our formalities. We did not realise then that our stay would be a long wait of 22 days. Next, we were taken to a makeshift hotel pompously named Regal. We were lodged together in a fairly large room with an “ancient” fireplace and mock French windows. By then it was 6 pm. 

In the days to come, I along with our hotel manager Raza and friend Bitu, extensively toured Kabul, even in the extreme cold weather after a heavy snow fall. Some of the places I visited in brief are as follows:

Arg-e-Shahi (Citadel of the King) or Royal Palace in Kabul now the Presidential Palace, which had a most imposing, stately presence. I had never seen so grand a modern palace before. It is built on a vast area of 83 acres in the affluent neighbourhood of Wazir Akbar Khan. 

On a cold sunny day, I visited Bagh-e-Babur or the “Garden of Babur” which houses his grave. Babur was the first Mughal Emperor of Hindustan (India). The garden is located on the slopes of the Kuh-e-Sher Darwaza, southwest of the old part of the city. 

The Bala Hissar is an ancient fortress located in the city of Kabul. It sits to the south of city centre of Kabul and at the tail end of the Koh-e-Sher Darwaza mountain chain. 

In the central part of Kabul is located the Zarnegar Park, desolate in winter, with the quaint mausoleum of Amir Abdur Rahman Khan, an interesting edifice, an amalgamation of Anglo-Saracenic styles.

The imposing black marble mausoleum of King Nadir Shah sits high on a hilltop overlooking East Kabul at Teppe Maranjan. The Kabul Museum had an impressive and a most important collection of ancient artefacts of central Asia going back several millennia. 




The grand mausoleum of King Mohammed Nadir Shah, Kabul, 1972. Photo: Asefi
To get to downtown or the business district of Kabul we had to daily pass by the Pul-e-Khishti mosque. It is the largest mosque in Kabul and beautifully decorated with blue mosaic tiles. Occasionally, I also had to pass by the Shah-Do Shamshira mosque located towards downtown Kabul along the edge of the Kabul River. It is a curious looking edifice with an unusual design for a mosque. It features multiple levels and facades designed in the Italian baroque style. 

I also saw the Darul Aman and Tajbeg palaces, the mausoleum of Taimur Shah Durrani, the Burj or watch tower of Bacha-e-Saqqa, Murad Khane and also stopped at Share Naw, Hajary Najary, Arch of Triumph/Paghman gardens, Bach-e-Bala and more. 

Contrary to our preconceived notion, the many Afghans we met during our long stay in Kabul, were surprisingly a soft spoken and courteous people. We departed from Kabul for New Delhi after a memorable stay on January 8, 1973, by for our onward journey to Bangladesh.
_Waqar A. Khan is Founder, Bangladesh Forum for Heritage Studies_
http://www.thedailystar.net/in-focu...m_medium=newsurl&utm_term=all&utm_content=all


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

One _Musibet _is better than a thousand _Nesihat _- a Turkish saying

They are the friends of our enemies -_Rahmetli _Jinnah upon observing the post independence treacherous and rebellious nature of the Bengali folks at the instigation of their former Hindu masters, who made them the most downtrodden Muslim community with the lowest socio-economic status in the entire India.

After _Beni Israil _crossed over to the other side of the Red Sea, which was divided to create a path in one of most highest _Mujize _from _Allah-u Azimushshan, _and, thereby, got rescued from the clutches of the Pharaoh, who used to kill their sons and abuse their daughters, do you know what they demanded from _Hazret-i Musa _(PBUH)? They wanted to worship Calf - one of the gods of Pharaoh!!!!!!! Should the Pak folks be at all surprised at the East Pak fiasco??????

BD is like _Sita _who was rescued from the clutches of _Ravana _by _Ram - _Indian views toward BD as expressed by BJP leaders
_
Elhamdulillah _that the "friends of our enemies" are ultimately well settled in their natural abode!!! I am pretty sure being like _Sita _in _Ram Rajya _is full of perks and privileges!!!!!

_With _the rebellious and treacherous mindsets of the folks from the East Pak I sincerely doubt whether the _Hakiki _Pak itself could have been saved!!!! Would it have been possible to let the daring Deep State work freely to checkmate "bombing to Stone Age" with the doctrine of "if Pak goes down the world will follow her too", which was corroborated by the MIT studies done during Bush 2 era??? Or, what's about disseminating the USSR??? Or, securing the _Haremain???
_
**BD military, like their Indian counterparts, salute Fire, which always remains lit inside their GHQs. This may be the ultimate revenge of the Pak _Ordu!!! _

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## Banglar Bir




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## Species



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## Centaur

Species said:


>


Lol, good shot buddy. I am waiting when ' 71 chetona gang' will gang attack on you if they are really in fighting mood here like Bangladeshi sites.


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## Species

Jacksparrow47 said:


> Lol, good shot buddy. I am waiting when ' 71 chetona gang' will gang attack on you if they are really in fighting mood here like Bangladeshi sites.



It was about intellectual martyrs day.


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## Centaur

Species said:


> It was about intellectual martyrs day.


Oh i thought your post was a satire but, I was wrong.৯৯১ জন শিক্ষক, কিছু সাংবাদিক, আর অন্যান্য রা মারা গেলেও একটা দেশ পিছিয়ে যায় না এত বেশি। আর এই ফিগারের নির্ভরযোগ্যতা নেই তবু কোন বিতর্ক শুরু করব না। ভাল থাকবেন।ধন্যবাদ।
@Species


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## Species

Jacksparrow47 said:


> Oh i thought your post was a satire but, I was wrong.৯৯১ জন শিক্ষক, কিছু সাংবাদিক, আর অন্যান্য রা মারা গেলেও একটা দেশ পিছিয়ে যায় না এত বেশি। আর এই ফিগারের নির্ভরযোগ্যতা নেই তবু কোন বিতর্ক শুরু করব না। ভাল থাকবেন।ধন্যবাদ।
> @Species



No problem. আপনার মতামত। তবে কিছুটা হলেও ক্ষতি হয়েছে দেশের।

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## Homo Sapiens

Species said:


> No problem. আপনার মতামত। তবে কিছুটা হলেও ক্ষতি হয়েছে দেশের।


Whatever may be the losses, we may have overcome that very rapidly on intellectual arenas, but the mentality, the desire form which that killing were done, Bangladeshi people will not forget that for generations to come.Pakistani army or their local collaborators achieved nothing by killing 1100 intellectual on the verge of defeat, but the hatefull mentality they shown against future Bangladesh and the bitterness they left will not disappear anytime soon.Sometimes some deaths are more than just death.It is the defining moment of a nation.British PM still offer apology for Jalianwalabagh massacre whenever they set foot in India, even 100 years after that event.Jalianwalabagh was not that a large scale massacre compared to others, but it is a defining moment for Indian history.Intellectual killing is such a defining moment for Bangladesh.

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## Doctor Strange

Homo Sapiens said:


> Whatever may be the losses, we may have overcome that very rapidly on intellectual arenas, but the mentality, the desire form which that killing were done, Bangladeshi people will not forget that for generations to come.Pakistani army or their local collaborators achieved nothing by killing 1100 intellectual on the verge of defeat, but the hatefull mentality they shown against future Bangladesh and the bitterness they left will not disappear anytime soon.Sometimes some deaths are more than just death.It is the defining moment of a nation.British PM still offer apology for Jalianwalabagh massacre whenever they set foot in India, even 100 years after that event.Jalianwalabagh was not that a large scale massacre compared to others, but it is a defining moment for Indian history.Intellectual killing is such a defining moment for Bangladesh.



Arre Bhai by reinitiating these issues and showing the increasing numbers every year, are you sure you are playing in the hands of anti BD people. Knowing the emotional behavior of BD people, this only fuels hateful mentality and irrational activities. First the people were talking about 200 intellectuals now it has turned 1100 in your words. Im sure some primary teachers are also turned intellectuals. Have to show respect nonetheless. But calling a spade a spade is wise word. What Kader Siddiqui said in 2011 is, 31 intellectuals gave statement in 1971 in favor of Pakistan, including Munir Chowdhhuri. And they were traitor intellectuals in his words. They stayed in East Pakistan whole time during the war and got salary from Pak Gov. So is this wise of Pak Army to kill them or they could possess problem future BD Gov? Pakistan's main ideological enemies were out of reach, so killing them didnt serve any purpose. Also Indian Gov was in process of eliminating Naxalites in 1971. Some of these intellectuals were also leftists. With future independent BD leftists, Indian leftists could forge alliance. So their demise could help India. Notably Indian Eastern command Chief of Staff JFR Jakob a Jew was in charge of both the operations in India and Bangladesh. Operation Steeplechase and Bangladesh liberation war. These are some alternative histories people should also exploit for neutral view.

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## Shahzaz ud din

*Tales of survivors: 1971 war, the ordeal of the non-Bengalis*
By Farrukh Kamrani
Published: December 16, 2017
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DESIGN: IBRAHIM YAHYA

KARACHI: Commenting on the Bangladesh government’s claim that three million Bengalis were killed during the military operation that Pakistan Army started in March 1971, Sarmila Bose in her ‘Death Reckoning’ writes that history of Bangladesh is the history written by the victors of war.

While falsifying the highly exaggerated Bangladeshi and Indian claims about the deaths of Bengalis, Bose in her monumental work on the 1971 war notes that the only group whose killing could qualify the definition of genocide were non-Bengali residents of East Pakistan.

According to the whitepaper published in March 1971, around one hundred thousand non-Bengalis were killed in various parts of East Pakistan till that time. However, the later estimates based on the post-April counting suggest that the total number of non-Bengalis killed by Mukti Bahini was around two hundred and fifty thousand.

While sporadic killing of non-Bengalis took place all across the former East Pakistan, their mass massacres took place particularly in Jessore, Isherdee, Chandragona Paper Mills of Chittagong, Admajee Jute Mills of Narayanganj and Santahar of Rashahi. In remembrance of the martyrs of these massacres, The Express Tribune presents accounts of a few survivors.

*How Mukti Bahini ‘cleansed’ Santahar of non-Bengalis*

Haji Ehsanullah was 19 years old when his neighbourhood in Loco West was attacked by a Bengali mob on March 26. He says he along with his father, mother and wife jumped into a relative’s house and hid in a bathroom.






“When the attackers were gone, we first went to a graveyard and spend the night there. The coming days were spent in Ghorahaat, Santahar Railway Station and Station Colony,” he adds.

Ehsanullah remembers how on the morning of April 17, the Mukti Bahini launched its final assault against the unarmed residents of the colony.

“When the attack started, my parents asked me to run away. I covered my face with a kerchief and went out holding a metal rod in my hand,” he says, adding that the massacre was in full swing and he saw Bengali men throwing little children into the adjoining pond. “I was also stopped by a group of Bengalis who wanted to kill me, but a man, Aakaash, intervened and said that he knew me and that I was a Bengali.”

He says Aakaash’s colleagues were not much convinced and one of the group members gave me a shovel to dig out a grave. “I started digging a ditch while my people were being killed. I frantically kept digging.”
Ehsanullah says the same Bengali, Aakaash, again came to him in the afternoon, offered him some food and gave him address of his sister, who lived in the town of Ontahar.

Ehsanullah says he somehow managed to get to that place, where he was given refuge until arrival of Pakistan Army on April 22. “When I returned to Santahar, in search of my family, I could not find my parents, but my wife was alive. The killers had slit her neck but she had survived as the wound was not deep enough,” he adds.

Dr Jameel Akhtar, who now lives in Shah Faisal Colony of Karachi, says his entire family – comprising his parents and 10 siblings – was killed in the April 16 massacre at Railway Colony.





“I was among the youngest kids of my parents. When the attack started at around 4am, we hugged each other. But my parent asked me to escape and clad me in a lungi and vest. My mother also gave me her gold jewellery which I hid in a fold in my lungi.”

Dr Jameel says when the attackers reached their house, his elder brother opened the door. “I was standing behind him. I saw them killing my brother right in front of my eyes.”

He says he ran out from the backside of his house. “I rushed to the railway station but saw a Bengali railway officer, Jalal Guard, prowling there with a spear in his hand. I ran from there but I soon found myself in front of another group of killers.”

Dr Jameel says he tried to convince the Mukti Bahini men that he was also a Bengali but they did not believe him. “They were about to hit me when I had an idea. I brought out the jewellery from my lungi and threw it in front of them. The killers instantly started vying for the gold, giving me an opportunity to escape.”

*Forgotten pages: The martyrs of Naogaon Cantonment*

Dr Jameel says he then started moving towards Naogaon. “But on that way, I encountered with another group of killers who had put on display half a dozen human heads. They asked me who I was. I told them that I am a Bengali. The asked me as to what was the slogan for that day. On my way, I had seen a slogan written on the walls. I told them it’s ‘Amar Desh, Tumar Desh, Bangladesh, Bangladesh’. I was fortunate, they let me go,” he says.

Bilquis, who now lives in Karachi’s Orangi Town, was a married woman with three children in 1971. She says when the Bengalis started attacking different neighbourhoods, her husband decided to move along with the family to the factory of Gramophone beri-wala.






“Here the hooligans of Mukti Bahini came and picked up men who were often slaughtered outside the factory. My husband was also among those who was killed outside that premises,” she reminisces.
Bilquis says despite all the killings in and outside the factory, she and her family remained in that building until April 17 when Bengalis asked them to move to the Railway Colony.

“I along with other women was being driven to the station when a Bengali man, who knew my husband and called me her sister, came to me and told me in whispers that I should not go to the station as all people were being killed there,” she says.

“The other Bengalis were not ready at first to allow me to go with him but he somehow managed to convince them. He later took me to his family, who gave refuge to me.”

Bilquis says the other women who had left the factory with her were brought to a pond where they were slaughtered. “I was, however, fortunate that I remained safe and also found my children alive,” she adds.

Irfan Ulllah Siddiqui was a little kid when his family was massacred in the Station Colony on April 17.






“My family comprised my parents, six daughters and three brothers. All of them were killed. I was 6-year-old at that time and managed to survive as I hid beneath the bodies of my family members,” he recalls, adding that it was many days after the massacre that he was discovered by her aunt who lived in Saidpur and had come in search of survivors of her family.

Muhammad Qurban, who now lives in Karachi’s Malir area, was 19 years old in March 1971. He was among the people who buried the victims of the March 27 killing at Chaibagan Mosque.
“My family had moved to the railway station after this attack. However, on April 2, I left the station and somehow reached Naogaon,” he recalls, adding that he stayed at Naogaon until the arrival of the Pakistan Army.

“When I returned to the station in search of my family I could not find them anywhere. Survivors told me that my entire family, including my parents and five siblings, had been hacked,” he says.






Ashraf now works as a tailor at Karachi’s Orangi Town. He was very young when the turmoil started in Kalsagram. “My father, who was in the police, never returned after March 26. I can’t tell the exact place but my mother was also killed during the massacre,” he narrates his ordeal.

Ashraf says he was later shifted to some other location along with 50 to 60 children who were taken care of by some Bengalis. “These children were later rescued by the Pakistan Army. My elder sister lived in Dhaka. She found me in the army’s protection and took me along to Dhaka,” he adds.






_PHOTOS PROVIDED BY SYED PERVEZ AFSAR_

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## Shahzaz ud din

*Bloody December: New Facts About India’s Invasion of Pakistan in 1971 Raise Legal Questions*

To understand why the war in Afghanistan is faltering, you need to understand what India did in 1971
Analysis
by Ahmed Quraishi | Published on December 19, 2017 




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On the morning of December 16, 2017, commanders of Indian Navy’s eastern command laid a floral wreath at a war memorial to members of the Indian armed forces who perished in the war against Pakistan in 1971.

They were marking a war anniversary, known as _Vijay Diwas_ in Hindi, the language of the minority northern ruling elite. At 11:16 AM, Prime Minister Narendra Modi tweeted a special message. He saluted the Indian soldiers who fought in 1971 and said they “protected our nation diligently.”

There is one problem: India was not under attack in 1971. Pakistan did not launch any war, and the Indian nation faced no threat from any country that year.

The real story is starkly different. Today, multiple books and investigative articles, and, surprisingly, even Prime Minister Modi himself, confirm that India invaded Pakistan in a war of opportunity to cripple a country that was busy in the domestic chaotic aftermath of a messy election.

India in 1971 violated international law by launching an unprovoked invasion of East Pakistan using an ISIS-style terror militia it trained with help from Soviet Union. This was a war of opportunity, not a necessity, with the objective of breaking away Pakistani territory, a war that has permanently destabilized the region with far-reaching impact.

Moreover, the 1971 war partially helps explain why today’s war in Afghanistan will not end easily.

Thousands of Pakistani civilians died in the 1971 war, massacred by the Indian-trained militia. The Indian casualties were far lower in comparison. Therefore, India’s Vijay Diwas, building a war memorial, and pretending the Indian army was ‘protecting the nation’, is an elaborate charade. Mr. Modi’s tweet, suggesting the Indian army was in a defensive posture protecting the nation, is tantamount to the deliberate distortion of history.

Calling out this lie is important. Aggressive policies have led India to wars with Pakistan and China, borderline war crimes in Kashmir, and a lingering possibility of a nuclear war in South Asia. New Delhi continues to play the same dangerous games in 2017 as it did in 1971, hurting the region and extending its proxy warfare to Afghanistan, where the lives of American, Afghan, Pakistani and NATO soldiers and civilians are at stake.

WHAT HAPPENED IN 1971

While the Indian nation enjoyed peace, Pakistan was under attack for much of the year in 1971. India launched a unilateral war of aggression. Its planning started at least three years earlier, Indian and Bangladeshi sources confirm. A ISIS-style terror militia was created and trained by Indian government and army to seize East Pakistan villages, commit atrocities, and start a flash ethnic conflict to break away Pakistani territory.

Members of this Indian ISIS-style terror militia were flown to the Soviet Union to receive training in guerrilla warfare at multiple locations, including Tashkent. Former KGB agent Yuri Zemenov, who defected to the West, gave a detailed account of how India and the USSR planned the 1971 invasion of East Pakistan.

This was an incredible opportunity that India could not miss: Pakistan had just come out of a chaotic violent election, and the Pakistan Army maintained a very small peacetime footprint in East Pakistan, easily outnumbered by the Indian military, backed by no resupply lines. Pakistanis were caught unprepared because they did not think they faced an existential threat from India. To most Pakistanis, there was no conflict with India except in Kashmir, which was at the UN Security Council. Pakistanis believed there was no question of India launching a war outside of the conflict zone of Kashmir, since that would mean expanding Pak-India hostilities.

But expanding the conflict is exactly what India did in 1971.

HINDI-SPEAKING RULERS

Here, it’s also important to recognize who exactly is Pakistan’s enemy in India. Most of the good people of India are not interested in a permanent war with Pakistan. The anti-Pakistan hate is generated by and comes from the influential Hindi-speaking, the upper-caste northern ruling elite in New Delhi. This obsession is rooted in the long history of Muslim dynastic rule in northern India, which created the Taj Mahal and, ironically, gave India the city of Delhi. Having said this, this ruling elite has forced the Indian media to largely conform to an anti-Pakistan narrative that encourages violence against Pakistanis visiting their country. It will not be long before a substantial segment of non-Hindi speaking Indians is brainwashed into hating Pakistan as a nation and people.

The events of 1971 were an extension of the proxy wars that India launched against Pakistan immediately after Pakistan’s independence from Britain in 1947. The first of those wars began in 1950, when India launched a proxy war for the secession of Pashtun- and Baloch-dominated areas of the new state. New Delhi’s ruling elite approached young Pakistani Marxists for this and sought the help of Soviet Union to break Pakistan up from within. 

MODI’S CONFESSION
AND LEGAL CONSEQUENCES

The tweet on _Vijay Diwas_ by the Indian prime minister, and the series of statements he made on this war over the last two years, create the basis for a possible Pakistani legal case against the Government of India that could help set the record straight on this war. Pakistan can demand an apology from the Indian government for the devastation its actions caused. Pakistan can also request New Delhi to stop using the events of 1971 to perpetuate a lie. India has misled its people and the world for a long time on what happened in 1971.

Obviously, the Indian government will resist any challenge to its narrative but that should not deter the effort to correct history. Prime Minister Modi should blame himself for reviving this debate. He has single-handedly weakened India’s case on this war. Modi inadvertently revived the debate on India’s role in the war during a visit to Dhaka in June 2015, where the Indian prime minister admitted that rebels who fought Pakistan and committed massacres were undercover Indian soldiers.

This was a remarkable confession because, for four decades, India insisted indigenous rebels led the war in 1971 and India intervened to help them on humanitarian grounds.

Indian author Sarmila Bose, in her 2011 book Dead Reckoning: Memories of the 1971 Bangladesh War, provides a lot of context on how India distorted the history surrounding its role in the war.

Stories of survivors of the Indian-instigated massacres can be read in Tales of Survivors: 1971 War. Another detailed account on the Indian-trained terror militia can be found in Fall of Dhaka: How Mukti Bahini ‘cleansed’ Santahar town of non-Bengalis.

HOW 1971 IMPACTS AFGHANISTAN

When India invaded East Pakistan, and dismembered a country five times smaller than itself, the message sent to Pakistan was clear: New Delhi will seize every opportunity to hurt Pakistan. The idea that Kashmir is the only conflict between Islamabad and New Delhi was dead. Many in Pakistan thought India might be ready for peace four decades after the 1971 events, but this theory was conclusively debunked in March 2016, when Pakistan arrested a high-level Indian terror agent, a serving officer in the Indian navy, who ran an elaborate terror network in Pakistan from his base in the Iranian city of Chabahar. He was caught during a covert mission inside Balochistan.

India is applying the same tactics it used in 1971 now in 2017, using proxies and the soil of Afghanistan and Iran to destabilize Pakistan. This Indian policy is wreaking havoc in Afghanistan. New Delhi benefits from permanent chaos in Afghanistan where Kabul, Washington and Islamabad trade blame as the three countries suffer casualties from terrorism and instability.

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## bluesky

Janbaz Rao said:


> .
> *How Mukti Bahini ‘cleansed’ Santahar of non-Bengalis*





Janbaz Rao said:


> *Forgotten pages: The martyrs of Naogaon Cantonment*


My father was a servant of Pakistan Eastern Railways. So, I know all the main stations/junctions where Biharis used to live. I was not in Santahar and Naogaon during 1971 war. But, it is true that many thousands of non-Bangali people were slaughtered. This is what I have heard from my childhood friends in those areas.

However, killings were done by both the groups. Bad thing is that the Bangalis do not recognize that their folks killed the Biharis. Instead, they keep themselves busy with a fictitious and absurd figure of 3 million Bangali killing by the PA troops, while they cannot give a list with names and the localities where the killings took place. How about their burying places?

Vietnam killing was about 1 million after a *few decades of war*, and its govt has all the data with the result of DNA tests. BD govt is only after propaganda figure without scientific proofs. Once Begum Zia doubted the figure. She was castigated by the Awami Leagures. However, there were many lakhs of killing.

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## Centaur

bluesky said:


> However, killings were done by both the groups. Bad thing is that the Bangalis do not recognize that their folks killed the Biharis. Instead, they keep themselves busy with a fictitious and absurd figure of 3 million Bangali killing by the PA troops, while they cannot give a list with names and the localities where the killings took place. How about their burying places?
> 
> Vietnam killing was about 1 million after a *few decades of war*, and its govt has all the data with the result of DNA tests. BD govt is only after propaganda figure without scientific proofs. Once Begum Zia doubted the figure. She was castigated by the Awami Leagures. However, there were many lakhs of killing.



Great statement about 1971 incident .My position is almost same except slightly different point of view.
However still if i can remember correctly ,in one post a BD fellow tagged you as "one of awami indian stooge" ,but don't know what's the reason!
However according to the book 'dead reckoning'
Total numbers of dead are 50 thousand to 1 lakh including both side during the civil war !
This figure perhaps closer to the reality as we don't know the real number!

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## bluesky

Jacksparrow47 said:


> Great statement about 1971 incident .My position is almost same except slightly different point of view.
> However still if i can remember correctly ,in one post a BD fellow tagged you as "one of awami indian stooge" ,but don't know what's the reason!
> However according to the book 'dead reckoning'
> Total numbers of dead are 50 thousand to 1 lakh including both side during the civil war !
> This figure perhaps closer to the reality as we don't know the real number!


When the war was ending some people were telling of a 300,000 killed, which we found too exaggerated. But, suddenly, it jumped up to 3 million when Sk. Mujib was flown to London from Pakistan. 50,000 or less may be a reasonable figure. Even then two stadiums are required to fill with this figure. That is also in only less than nine months. 

However, I must have to say that there were around 10,000 killings in Dhaka and then Keraniganj on and after 26th. AL probably does a simple multiplication of this figure by 260 days of fighting and comes to a rough 3 million figure by simple interpolation.

Hitler would have been delighted to learn the technology of killing so many people without first building the gas chambers and in only 9 months instead of his taking 5 years to kill 2/3 million Jews. He could have saved the money to build tens of concentration camps and to buy gas. How inefficient Hitler was comparing to PA troops!!

Any way, AL is a nasty political party that intermingled history with fiction. However, @idune of Jamaat thinks that I myself am an Awami leagure. @idune, note one thing. I have no weakness to AL, BNP or Jamaat. I am against anyone crafty and greedy.

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## Centaur

bluesky said:


> When the war was ending some people were telling of a 300,000 killed, which we found too exaggerated. But, suddenly, it jumped up to 3 million when Sk. Mujib was flown to London from Pakistan. 50,000 or less may be a reasonable figure. Even then two stadiums are required to fill with this figure. That is also in only less than nine months.
> 
> However, I must have to say that there were around 10,000 killings in Dhaka and then Keraniganj on and after 26th. AL probably does a simple multiplication of this figure by 260 days of fighting and comes to a rough 3 million figure by simple interpolation.
> 
> Hitler would have been delighted to learn the technology of killing so many people without first building the gas chambers and in only 9 months instead of his taking 5 years to kill 2/3 million Jews. He could have saved the money to build tens of concentration camps and to buy gas. How inefficient Hitler was comparing to PA troops!!
> 
> Any way, AL is a nasty political party that intermingled history with fiction. However, @idune of Jamaat thinks that I myself am an Awami leagure. @idune, note one thing. I have no weakness to AL, BNP or Jamaat. I am against anyone crafty and greedy.


Fantastic analysis! Actually I also think that hamudur Rahman report might be true but let's assume that the figure is nearly 100000 including both Bengali and non bengali .in dead reckoning sharmila Bose also stated that .
It does make sense as in a civil war total 1 lakh can be dead. But it even a kid ( who can think )with common sense will not accept the figure of 3 damn millions .
And what awami hypocrites ( neo chetona cultist) are doing ? Not only propogating the figure that even unaccepted by indian soldier who fought there ,but also if anyone raise a question instantly declared as traitor.
I know some brain washed a.s.s. holes who are educated , doing either govt or multi national jobs and some do business ,acdemic qualified person who really are not propagandist, but the victims of propaganda, believe this damn ficticious figure so easily and even don't want to discuss some one who want to question the figure .
Some can argue that govt service holders don't dare question the stance of govt. But what about others? No restriction for them, yet they all are acting like zombies.

Did you read the book by Arif Rahman , 3 million myth or reality ? These so called educated persons just blindly follow such books.I read those articles long ago.
I am surprised by those so called well educated persons who are believing this sh!t without question! Who are they ? What type of propaganda can spread so fast like Ebola virus ? Are some Bengalis really trying to believe such bs? I feel sick when I deal with them in real life.
However if you missed it read again here the cold blooded bastard wanted to prove that rape victims can me more than one million .
https://blog.mukto-mona.com/2014/10/07/43068/
Does that make sense ? Still Bengalis neo awami hypocrites are devouring them .
Who knows one day the so called rape victims will cross 3 million or more!
And I know Hasina is surviving but it looks she is compromsing too much instead of making a better platform.
Because our next generation will learn such false propaganda, it's truly disastrous. govt should stop such terrible blunder .
Even if they want to survive with the B.S Mythology,still they have other ways .

P.s : i will explain 2 personal incident few years ago , it's a bit long ,I must tell in short .
I have asked a question to someone (indeed close person ,my same aged ,born a decade after 1971 )that why there is no list of so called martyrs?
He instantly replied that it will take more than 500 years to make the list ,so he just follow without question as they don't lie when they say 3 million.
I asked if it take more than 500 years to make list from 68000 BD village then how is it possible that pakistan army and rajakars (common opinion that rajakars were few in number ) can do this?
The answer was it was, communication.
I said how is it possible so fast as there was no internet that time ,only analogue land phones and only in every district towns not even other places ?
His reply was ,'you are rajakar and Pakistani'.

Another a.s.s hole( who is close too) advised me that he don't need to even know the figure ,since he want to exaggerate more even the number is lesser because it will bring more glory to Bangladesh , so why should we decrease the figure that will benefit pakistan??
Now this is the real as.sholes chetona badi. Since that day I stopped wasting my time on such faggots.
There is no point of argument with such academic qualified ignorant scams.
However first one was a pro Pakistani' cricket team supporter till 2002 and used to dance with Pakistani teams victory . Just disgusting hypocrites.
@bluesky

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## Species

Homo Sapiens said:


> Whatever may be the losses, we may have overcome that very rapidly on intellectual arenas, but the mentality, the desire form which that killing were done, Bangladeshi people will not forget that for generations to come.Pakistani army or their local collaborators achieved nothing by killing 1100 intellectual on the verge of defeat, but the hatefull mentality they shown against future Bangladesh and the bitterness they left will not disappear anytime soon.Sometimes some deaths are more than just death.It is the defining moment of a nation.British PM still offer apology for Jalianwalabagh massacre whenever they set foot in India, even 100 years after that event.Jalianwalabagh was not that a large scale massacre compared to others, but it is a defining moment for Indian history.Intellectual killing is such a defining moment for Bangladesh.



I think there must be more research on the war. The think that amazes me is that how could the Pakistan forces commit such an act on 14th December when the joint forces had already reached Dhaka and almost took the control of the entire country? I mean wasn't it possible to avert this incident by the joint forces?

Note that these intellectuals were mainly communists and leftists. At that time, there was a leftist uprising in West Bengal and there are certain reports that many in West Bengal were calling for a merger of the state with Bangladesh right after the war. That means these intellectuals were a threat to India as well. And obviously, India also had its own reasons to make an intellect deficit in Bangladesh. 

We should always remember that we are located in one of the most abominable regions in the world.

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## bluesky

Species said:


> I think there must be more research on the war. The think that amazes me is that *how could the Pakistan forces commit such an act on 14th December* when the joint forces had already reached Dhaka and almost took the control of the entire country? I mean wasn't it possible to avert this incident by the joint forces?


It was not the PA troops that committed the 14th December killing. It was the anti-Bangladesh Bihari people in Mirpur, who did it. They resisted against the Muktis probably until 20th December. This is the place where the famous Zahir Raihan went to record the battle accounts for his documentary film. He was killed in a cross fight, and was probably killed by a bullet shot by the Bihari group. However, gossip mongers in BD has been telling that he was killed by the Mujib Bahini, because he was recording all the misdeeds by the Awami Leaguers during 1971.

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## Shahzaz ud din

GLIMPSES OF THE EAST PAKISTAN:






*Pakistani banknotes included Bengali script until 1971*






*Baitul Mukarram Market Area, Dacca, 1967*






*Chittagong Port in 1960*





*Central business district in Dacca, 1960s*









*Entrance to the Adamjee Jute Mills, the world's largest jute processing plant, in 1950*




President Ayub Khan (left) with Bengali industrialist Abul Kashem Khan (right) in Chittagong




The Kaptai Dam in 1965




Elizabeth II, seen here visiting Chittagong in 1961, was East Pakistan's queen until 1956.




Suhrawardy (middle) with US President Dwight D. Eisenhower and Secretary of State John Foster Dulles

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## Species

bluesky said:


> It was not the PA troops that committed the 14th December killing. It was the anti-Bangladesh Bihari people in Mirpur, who did it. They resisted against the Muktis probably until 20th December. This is the place where the famous Zahir Raihan went to record the battle accounts for his documentary film. He was killed in a cross fight, and was probably killed by a bullet shot by the Bihari group. However, gossip mongers in BD has been telling that he was killed by the Mujib Bahini, because he was recording all the misdeeds by the Awami Leaguers during 1971.



And according to some accounts of Indian Army officers deployed at that time (could be found in this forum), the Indian troops were guarding the Bihari colonies after the war to 'protect' them from retaliatory attacks. 

This is becoming more and more clearer. 

I believe, there was some sort of hidden agreement between Indian and Pakistan forces to execute this action that would benefit both of them.

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## Homo Sapiens

Janbaz Rao said:


> GLIMPSES OF THE EAST PAKISTAN:


Can you guess who is just right side of the M.A Jinnah?


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## Shahzaz ud din

Homo Sapiens said:


> Can you guess who is just right side of the M.A Jinnah?


We used to call him shere bangal moulvi A.K Fazal ul Haq

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## Centaur

Janbaz Rao said:


> We used to call him shere bangal moulvi A.K Fazal ul Haq


And also the greatest Bengali speaking leader . And also the greatest leader of the oppressed common folks of British India .


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## Homo Sapiens

Janbaz Rao said:


> We used to call him shere bangal moulvi A.K Fazal ul Haq


Exactly! Another 2 Bengali muslim leader who played a very important role in creating Pakistan was HS Suhrawardy and Khawja Nazimuddin.Both of them lead Bengali muslim towards a separate muslim homeland as a Muslim league PM of Bengal before 1947.After 1947, Khawaja Nazimuddin serves as a CM of East Bengal, he succeeded Q.A.M.A Jinnah after his death as a governor General of Pakistan.After Liaquat Ali Khan's assassination he step down from his post and took over the Prime ministership of Pakistan.H.S Suhrawardy became President of Pakistan in 1956.A.K Fazlul haque served as a CM of East Pakistan.Another 2 Bengali leader, Mohammad Ali Bogra and Iskander Mirza, Mohammad Ali Bogra helped Pakistan to foster close economic and military relation with US and provided 'Bogra formula' to solve the constitutional problem regarding representation from East and West Pakistan. Iskander Mirza, who was a military general under the the British, he played an important role in dividing British Indian army, air force and navy between India and Pakistan during partition.After that he served as a governor of East Pakistan and then became President of Pakistan.He was the President who had to hand over power to Ayub Khan.

If you look at first 11 years of Pakistan, Both Bengali and west Pakistani leaders led Pakistan.There was not much resentment in East Pakistan and they thought Pakistan as their own country, own responsibility to make it better and fair.Economic and other imbalance were present, but they hoped to correct it by constitutional means and never thought about seeking separation.Situation became worse when Ayub and Yahia made Bengali people totally powerless and irrelevant in Pakistani affairs.Even in 1970 election, people of East Pakistan wanted a constitutional safe guard of the interest of their province rather than secession.But things gone out of control when Generals and Bhutto colluded and start acting arrogant of not giving any chance of elected representative from East Pakistan.They put faith in force rather than reason. Whatever, outcome turn out to be very favorable for us for their arrogance when we got an independent country of our own.

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## bluesky

Species said:


> And according to some accounts of Indian Army officers deployed at that time (could be found in this forum), the Indian troops were guarding the Bihari colonies after the war to 'protect' them from retaliatory attacks.
> 
> This is becoming more and more clearer.
> 
> I believe, there was some sort of hidden agreement between Indian and Pakistan forces to execute this action that would benefit both of them.


It is true that the IA troops were protecting the Biharis. But, it was very usual for India to stop the cycles of killings as the main war had ended. This decision by the IA generals to take a neutral role was praiseworthy. Otherwise, the country would have fallen into many rounds of killing and counter killing.

About hidden agreement, I do not think it was nefarious for the PA generals if they had requested the IA generals to stop the wanton killing of non-Bengalis. Tit for tat actions are not desirable. Both the Biharis and Bangalis killed each other during the war. It was no more needed to take vengeful action after the war.

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## Centaur

Species said:


> I believe, there was some sort of hidden agreement between Indian and Pakistan forces to execute this action that would benefit both of them.


Not really . Mukti thugs were terribly amateur lungi clowns.
If Indian army wouldn't guard biharis ,then mukti terrorist would annihilated bihahirs and indian army would be accused as war criminals dew to commit* a real genocide on biharis .*
That's why indian troops had no other option but to protect biharis as the first duty of professional soldiers.
*Otherwise mukti brutal amateur gang was enough to turn Indian victory into disaster.*
Even sadharon ansar bahini of Bangladesh receive 2 months of training under army.
*And mukti mobs got 45 days guerilla training ,that was basically training of loot and committing crimes against Pakistan government and killing ,and torturing East Pakistani civilians, and nothing else .*
After all they were no better than those goons hired by Tareq Rahman during 2014-15 endless strike from BNP gang .*remember tarq Zia gang would be another mukti faouz if there would be another civil war in 2014-15 when BNP gang was killing peopels with petrol bomb.*

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## Species

bluesky said:


> It is true that the IA troops were protecting the Biharis. But, it was very usual for India to stop the cycles of killings as the main war had ended. This decision by the IA generals to take a neutral role was praiseworthy. Otherwise, the country would have fallen into many rounds of killing and counter killing.
> 
> About hidden agreement, I do not think it was nefarious for the PA generals if they had requested the IA generals to stop the wanton killing of non-Bengalis. Tit for tat actions are not desirable. Both the Biharis and Bangalis killed each other during the war. It was no more needed to take vengeful action after the war.



By the agreement I actually referred to the intellectual killings. As stated in my earlier post, the event benefited both India and Pakistan.

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## bluesky

Species said:


> By the agreement I actually referred to the intellectual killings. As stated in my earlier post, the event benefited both India and Pakistan.


Intellectual killing was not done by the PA troops. It was done by the Biharis.


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## bdslph

its sad the to see the JUTE MILL CLOSED 
there was a Pakistani Rich man wanted to buy it and run it after it went closed the gov didnot give it 
this jute mill has a long history of good things but its dead now sadly


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## Bilal9

Janbaz Rao said:


> GLIMPSES OF THE EAST PAKISTAN:



PIA used to operate the world's largest and most extensive Helicopter service in East Pakistan at that time using Sikorsky S-61N helis which were capable of landing on water if necessary.









It is interesting to note that improvements in road communications have rendered most of the shorter routes served then as unnecessary, but newer/longer routes were created and are now served by larger 50~70 seater small jets and turboprops, and in some cases even by widebody jets. There are numerous private airlines.









F28's aren't operated anymore, Embraer ERJ's, Baby Boeings and turboprops instead.























Not to mention a thriving corporate aviation scene

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## Bilal9

*



Pakistani banknotes included Bengali script until 1971

Click to expand...

*


>



Today...






*



Baitul Mukarram Market Area, Dacca, 1967

Click to expand...

*


>


Looks like this nowadays





*



Chittagong Port in 1960

Click to expand...

*


>


Scope of operations improved manyfold....CTG is now one of the busiest container ports in the Bay of Bengal, except Colombo.











*



Central business district in Dacca, 1960s

Click to expand...

*


>


Today....





*



Entrance to the Adamjee Jute Mills, the world's largest jute processing plant, in 1950

Click to expand...

*


>



Well they turned Adamjee Jute Mills into an Export Processing Zone (EPZ), or as they are known now, Special Economic Zone (SEZ).

Old Jute lines from the 50's are no more - new buildings taking their place.

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## Bilal9

> President Ayub Khan (left) with Bengali industrialist Abul Kashem Khan (right) in Chittagong



AK Khan Company is involved in many JV's nowadays including Telekom Malaysia for GSM Cellphone Telecommunications, Mitsui and Maruha of Japan for deep-sea fishing, Coats of U.K for textile thread production, Pen-fabric of Malaysia for specialised textile yarns. Abul Kashem Khan Sahab pictured above of course passed away but the business has diversified many-fold and his children and grandchildren are deeply involved in local business scene in Chittagong.

Two of the larger business undertakings are, one JV with CEAT tires and another one (more recently) to develop ten special economic zones around the country (huge undertaking).

CEAT AKKHAN LTD is a joint venture company of CEAT Ltd. (India) and A K KHAN Co. Ltd (Bangladesh). They are setting up a state of the art tyre manufacturing facility in Bangladesh. It is the largest investment in Bangladesh' manufacturing sector, by any Indian company in Bangladesh with an investment value of BDT 424 Crore. This project will be an economic boost to Bangladesh by saving foreign exchange through import substitution and reducing trade deficit with India by exporting 30% of the production to India. Local rubber plantations may be expanded and utilized.

Inauguration ceremony of 10 SEZ's by AK Khan last year







> The Kaptai Dam in 1965



79000 cusecs of water leaving 16 gates of Kaptai dam in rainy season as of August this year.

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## Homo Sapiens

Jacksparrow47 said:


> Not really . Mukti thugs were terribly amateur lungi clowns.
> If Indian army wouldn't guard biharis ,then mukti terrorist would annihilated bihahirs and indian army would be accused as war criminals dew to commit* a real genocide on biharis .*
> That's why indian troops had no other option but to protect biharis as the first duty of professional soldiers.
> *Otherwise mukti brutal amateur gang was enough to turn Indian victory into disaster.*
> Even sadharon ansar bahini of Bangladesh receive 2 months of training under army.
> *And mukti mobs got 45 days guerilla training ,that was basically training of loot and committing crimes against Pakistan government and killing ,and torturing East Pakistani civilians, and nothing else .*
> After all they were no better than those goons hired by Tareq Rahman during 2014-15 endless strike from BNP gang .*remember tarq Zia gang would be another mukti faouz if there would be another civil war in 2014-15 when BNP gang was killing peopels with petrol bomb.*


A very disgraceful post.Insulting freedom fighters is the tantamount of insulting Bangladesh.Even if some Mukti Bahini freedom fighters did some questionable deed, it's his personal fault, Mukti Bahini as a whole was a force of good, right and just cause.You can't claim to be a patriot Bangladeshi while abusing our freedom fighters.There are certain red line which should not be crossed if you want to represent Bangladesh rather than Pakistan.

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## Centaur

Homo Sapiens said:


> A very disgraceful post.Insulting freedom fighters is the tantamount of insulting Bangladesh


I don't think so.your mukti bahini doesn't represent Bangladesh .


Homo Sapiens said:


> You can't claim to be a patriot Bangladeshi while abusing our freedom fighters


Does that really matter? If I claim or not I was born in this country and living here and a *patriot bangladeshi Bengali .
Just do not like the deceiving version of patriotism*
However I just disagree with you about honor of Bangladesh that doesn't mean that I don't honor my own country or own peoples.
However let me as you a simple question.
Let's assume that( for your sake ) it was freedom fight ,and not India Pakistan war , even not civil war.

And our East bengla regiment rebel against their military regime for right reason .
*Now tell me was pakistani army's east Bengal regiment not so qualified to train civilians for this freedom war?*
Why freedom fighters need the training from *enemy (of pakistan ) country's border security force * in order to fight a freedom war while a part of army already rebelled against pakistani authority in order to make new free country?
Please try to answer point to point ,thanks .
@Homo Sapiens

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## Homo Sapiens

Jacksparrow47 said:


> Why freedom fighters need the training from *enemy (of pakistan ) country's border security force * in order to fight a freedom war while a part of army already rebelled against pakistani authority in order to make new free country?


In war time, enemy's enemy become friend.India was our friend that time and Pakistan was enemy.After operation search light and declaration of independence, all calculation turned 180 degree.Previous friend became enemy and enemy turned friend.Actually friendship with west Pakistan gradually eroded in long 24 years.After 25 March, 1971, they turned full fledged enemy.That enmity lasted until Pakistan recognized Bangladesh as an independent country in 1974.

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## Centaur

Homo Sapiens said:


> In war time, enemy's enemy become friend.India was our friend that time and Pakistan was enemy.After operation search light and declaration of independence, all calculation turned 180 degree.Previous friend became enemy and enemy turned friend.Actually friendship with west Pakistan gradually eroded in long 24 years.After 25 March, 1971, they turned full fledged enemy.That enmity lasted until Pakistan recognized Bangladesh as an independent country in 1974.


But if someone claim that , India easily could let us use some of their land so that our own army (east Bengal regiment) ,so that they can train freedom fights well.or the jont command should form as soon as East bengal regiment revolt?
After all east Pakistan/newly formed Bangladesh had a government in mujib nogor!
Instead they train some separatist and push into pakistan.
And finally in order to achieve decisive victory India attacked Pakistan from both side with soviet back up! How easily you can defend your position against such claim ?
As India had option to make joint command long ago instead of sending so called freedom fighters trained by BSF?

@Homo Sapiens


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## The Ronin

Can anyone find the main source article plz and post it here? TIA.
http://tbtbangla.com/হিংস্র-আচরণ-করে-বাঙালিদ/http://www.banglatribune.com/foreign/news/281233/আমরাই-বাংলাদেশকে-বিচ্ছিন্ন-হতে-বাধ্য-করেছি-নওয়াজ,
https://www.dawn.com/news/1381830
http://www.dhakatribune.com/around-the-web/2018/01/09/nawaz-sharif-pakistan-bangalis-bangabandhu/


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## The Ronin

Brand new joke??





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Mehmood usmani

I am pakistani and here in pakistan all r understand that our misbehave of bengali is the main cause of sepration of bengal so we think forget the past and look to the future both r guilties of killing of innocent people but now after the independence oe sepration of bangladesh why haseena killings the leaders of bengalis which was with pakistan on that time i think almost 50 years ago


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## El Sidd

102 pages and still a BS thread.


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## Mehmood usmani

Pakistani r understand now then sh mujeeb was right and west pakistan was guilty for sepration and if bengalis want their independent country that was their right but



El Sidd said:


> 102 pages and still a BS thread.


Kehne ko boht kich hai

Now but i think sepration is good for both And jo allah krta hai behter krta hai

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## Centaur

Centaur said:


> But if someone claim that , India easily could let us use some of their land so that our own army (east Bengal regiment) ,so that they can train freedom fights well.or the jont command should form as soon as East bengal regiment revolt?
> After all east Pakistan/newly formed Bangladesh had a government in mujib nogor!
> Instead they train some separatist and push into pakistan.
> And finally in order to achieve decisive victory India attacked Pakistan from both side with soviet back up! How easily you can defend your position against such claim ?
> As India had option to make joint command long ago instead of sending so called freedom fighters trained by BSF?
> 
> @Homo Sapiens


@The Ronin 
Try to answer this first .


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## El Sidd

The Ronin said:


> Wait, what?? I don't understand your questions?? did you try to ask why India didn't attack Pakistan when they had the chance instead of arming us?? If that so then i gotta say they couldn't even if they wanted to. Cause it wasn't any attack on them, still it was Pakistan's internal matter. So they worked indirectly, raised international awareness against Pakistan's massacre.
> 
> 
> 
> Correction!! India didn't attack Pakistan first, it was Pakistan who launched aerial attack on 3 December in 11 Indian air stations giving India chance they were looking for to finish things up once and for all. The final nail in the coffin, as they were loosing the ground here and didn't want to surrender to our freedom fighters formed with student, farmers, military.
> 
> 
> 
> Based on what you are saying it?? My father who almost got training, his brother and my aunt's husband (খালু)
> is so called freedom fighter. As far as i can remember you have freedom fighters in your family too if i am not mistaken. Care to explain why do you think that?? I think you should change your flag then if keep denying and mocking our country's birth history like this.


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## UKBengali

Mehmood usmani said:


> I am pakistani and here in pakistan all r understand that our misbehave of bengali is the main cause of sepration of bengal so we think forget the past and look to the future both r guilties of killing of innocent people but now after the independence oe sepration of bangladesh why haseena killings the leaders of bengalis which was with pakistan on that time i think almost 50 years ago



LOL.

Google fiscal transfer from E Pakistan to W Pakistan as a start dude.

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## Centaur

The Ronin said:


> I think you should change your flag then if keep denying and mocking our country's birth history like this.


*Thanks , this is old suggestion, you are not the first man who suggested me to change my flag.
*
And those history you are referring all are textbook history and not unkwon to Me.
So if you read those two books , then we will discuss further. "Dead reckoning" by sharmila Bose , and " tajuddin ahmad leader and father" by sharmin Ahmed ( daughter of tajuddin) .
Peace and blessing.
@The Ronin


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## Centaur

The Ronin said:


> As far as i can remember you have freedom fighters in your family too if i am not mistaken. Care to explain why do you think that??


@The Ronin
I may have freedom fighters in my family or relavites may not . I just didn't make any confession about them here as far I can remember.

However I believe it's Mr @The Last Jedi who was talking about that to you yesterday in another thread . I believe he will be answering you .


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## The Ronin

Centaur said:


> *Thanks , this is old suggestion, you are the first man who suggested me to change my flag.
> *
> And those history you are referring all are textbook history and not unkwon to Me.
> So if you read those two books , then we will discuss further. "Dead reckoning" by sharmila Bose , and " tajuddin ahmad leader and father" by sharmin Ahmed ( daughter of tajuddin) .
> Peace and blessing.
> @The Ronin



I don't need to read anything anymore after reading Jahanara Imam's "Days of 71", "জনযুদ্ধের গণযোদ্ধা", The description of Jafor Iqbal and Hymaun Ahmed's fathers death in "একজন দূর্বল মানুষ", "জোৎস্না ও জননীর গল্প", after knowing what Shahid Ajad's mother went through till her death when she failed to feed her son for the last time, how Porkis tortured Altaf Mahmud in his own yard in front of his family, what his friend Alvi saw in drum hostel and faced which are described in "Mother". After watching a WW2 veteran William Ouderland fight for us, reports of Simon Dring, Anthony Mascarenhas "The rape of Bangladesh". The bodies my mother saw in the river beside her village, the bloody bed in Mirpur back then when she was little, when her father, my grandpa had to hide from Pak army in jungle with his whole family even though he was a pious man and moulovi, had nothing to do with liberation , the beating-kicking my other grandpa (my father's dad) took from Pak army in his chest, your two books can't counter these things. I guess the books you mentioned oppose and deny what actually happened but these two not enough to deny and oppose those videos, thousands photos and story's of people from inside and outside country. even some Pakistanis like Nawaz Sharif, Imran Khan admitted those. Your two books can't change those things. There will be some rotten apples in every basket.

Watch this video how a Pakistani expose those army officers who were deployed in here in 71






And other videos about 71.





















As i said before i can't change your opinion and you can't mine. No matter how many times we try. So lets just stay that way as i saw few like you before. End of discussion and good luck with your belief.



Centaur said:


> However I believe it's Mr @The Last Jedi who was talking about that to you yesterday in another thread . I believe he will be answering you .



Oh, this guy?? Na, i just put him in ignore list after the mockery about 71. i was already annoyed about him after watching his itching for BD military. Still there's no need to argue anymore as i already mentioned the reasons.

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## Jackdaws

The Ronin said:


> I don't need to read anything anymore after reading Jahanara Imam's "Days of 71", "জনযুদ্ধের গণযোদ্ধা", The description of Jafor Iqbal and Hymaun Ahmed's fathers death in "একজন দূর্বল মানুষ", "জোৎস্না ও জননীর গল্প", after knowing what Shahid Ajad's mother went through till her death when she failed to feed her son for the last time, how Porkis tortured Altaf Mahmud in his own yard in front of his family, what his friend Alvi saw in drum hostel and faced which are described in "Mother". After watching a WW2 veteran William Ouderland fight for us, reports of Simon Dring, Anthony Mascarenhas "The rape of Bangladesh". The bodies my mother saw in the river beside her village, the bloody bed in Mirpur back then when she was little, when her father, my grandpa had to hide from Pak army in jungle with his whole family even though he was a pious man and moulovi, had nothing to do with liberation , the beating-kicking my other grandpa (my father's dad) took from Pak army in his chest, your two books can't counter these things. I guess the books you mentioned oppose and deny what actually happened but these two not enough to deny and oppose those videos, thousands photos and story's of people from inside and outside country. even some Pakistanis like Nawaz Sharif, Imran Khan admitted those. Your two books can't change those things. There will be some rotten apples in every basket.
> 
> 
> 
> As i said before i can't change your opinion and you can't mine. No matter how many times we try. So lets just stay that way as i saw few like you before. End of discussion and good luck with your belief.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, this guy?? Na, i just put him in ignore list after the mockery about 71. i was already annoyed about him after watching his itching for BD military. Still there's no need to argue anymore as i already mentioned the reasons.


I had read Anthony Mascarenhas' book in University - I was surprised to find out later that he was Pakistani himself.


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## Centaur

The Ronin said:


> *I don't need to read anything anymore *after reading Jahanara Imam's "Days of 71", "জনযুদ্ধের গণযোদ্ধা", The description of Jafor Iqbal and Hymaun Ahmed's fathers death in "একজন দূর্বল মানুষ", "জোৎস্না ও জননীর গল্প",


Okay feel free to practice their *cult* then . After all who am I to stop if someone want to practice intellectuals' *cult * .
Peace and thank you


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## MultaniGuy

Well Bangladeshis got their independence. I wish the best for Bangladesh. Lets just hope the Bangladeshis are happy with their independence now.

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## Shorisrip

The Ronin said:


> I don't need to read anything anymore




The Pak Army had lined up my maternal Grandmother, her sisters and her brothers and were about to shoot them because they thought they were Hindus because they had idols as artpieces in their homes. They stopped because they recognized one of the kids. Lots of their Hindu neighbours were directly hacked to death. 

Also, my paternal family had to flee to Tripura which borders their village, by digging burrows to hide before the Pak army got to them.

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## Śakra

Shorisrip said:


> The Pak Army had lined up my maternal Grandmother, her sisters and her brothers and were about to shoot them because they thought they were Hindus because they had idols as artpieces in their homes. They stopped because they recognized one of the kids. Lots of their Hindu neighbours were directly hacked to death.
> 
> Also, my paternal family had to flee to Tripura which borders their village, by digging burrows to hide before the Pak army got to them.



Tell us there name and where they live so we can help them get back home @Nilgiri


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## Shorisrip

Śakra said:


> Tell us there name and where they live so we can help them get back home @Nilgiri



*Their

Instead of asking for bobs and vagenes, you should improve your English writing skills. Are you a citizen here? Let me guess, Brampton?

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## Centaur

The Ronin said:


> Her cult huh?? That women sacrificed her son she even said it out loud to her son in front of everyone "যা তোকে দেশের জন্য কোরবানি করলাম" when he asked for her permission to go to war, when he could leave all of these and go to study engineering in Illinois University (if i am not mistaken the name). She regretted saying that after this. Her husbands and younger son was tortured and later her husband died because of that torture. That women fought till her last to get justice for those Jamati son of guns. What that women and mothers like Sofia Begum (Shahid Azad's mom) sacrificed and endured like any other women back then i doubt your and my mom can do that. Oh!! I forgot it's futile telling these to you. How forgetful i am!! Feel free to dream Sayedi on the moon!! Who am i to stop your illusion!!  I think we should keep each other in ignore list otherwise this futile argument might keep going on!!
> 
> So bye bye


It's up to you crazy boy. It's better to be in the ignore list of such intolerant person who want tal gach every time. Feel free to score in an empty field. Bye bye.
@The Ronin

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## UKBengali

Shorisrip said:


> The Pak Army had lined up my maternal Grandmother, her sisters and her brothers and were about to shoot them because they thought they were Hindus because they had idols as artpieces in their homes. They stopped because they recognized one of the kids. Lots of their Hindu neighbours were directly hacked to death.
> 
> Also, my paternal family had to flee to Tripura which borders their village, by digging burrows to hide before the Pak army got to them.




@Nilgiri 

Still support Pakistan during 1971 my Hindu friend?

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## Śakra

Shorisrip said:


> *Their
> 
> Instead of asking for bobs and vagenes, you should improve your English writing skills. Are you a citizen here? Let me guess, Brampton?


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## Centaur

The Ronin said:


> Same can be said about you


Just one last question @The Ronin
Do you hate your mama ( maternal uncle) too because he is a Jamat rukon?
I suppose he loves you a lot, perhaps like his own son, as maternal uncles are very loving.
Is your arrogance and stubbornness too much too hate him too?
I would love to hear from you, if you care to tell me.


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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> @Nilgiri
> 
> Still support Pakistan during 1971 my Hindu friend?



I "support" (however you have defined it) Pakistan during 1971 or any other time?

I don't support/sympathise with either side, but I can empathise with certain realities and reactions of both.

In time of war, esp civil war.... bad stuff inevitably happens on both sides. @Arefin007 and others have posted the direct counterpoint from the other side ( pro-pakistan bengali during 1971) and the atrocities meted out to them just like this shorisrip account. You think any sides hands are clean here? Do you still "support" Bangladesh after reading that stuff? If you do....then apply the standard you are trying with me on yourself first.

There is also much to be said about actions of some being extrapolated to actions of all...that too across time and space.

Should we say all Bangladeshis enjoy murdering their own military people because of Pilkhana?....or all BD people were behind murdering their country founder?....or all Bangladeshis condone Gulshan style ppl?....or all BD people are like what their army did in the atrocities of CHT?.

If you isolate/delineate the blame for your side and generalise/spread as entire country for others (like in this case saying "Pakistan", many other cases you say "India"....or "Burma" and "China" more recently)....then you are a hypocrite....so don't be shocked when you are treated as such. 

Macbeth started out as relatively good guy too, but he insulated himself to such a degree with only his inner demons, justifying each and everything he did but never trying to apply the process for others....and in the end he became the very thing he swore to destroy....you might want to try learn something from that.

@django @Joe Shearer @Aung Zaya @Hell hound @Zibago @Desert Fox

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> I "support" (however you have defined it) Pakistan during 1971 or any other time?
> 
> I don't support/sympathise with either side, but I can empathise with certain realities and reactions of both.
> 
> In time of war, esp civil war.... bad stuff inevitably happens on both sides. @Arefin007 and others have posted the direct counterpoint from the other side ( pro-pakistan bengali during 1971) and the atrocities meted out to them just like this shorisrip account. You think any sides hands are clean here? Do you still "support" Bangladesh after reading that stuff? If you do....then apply the standard you are trying with me on yourself first.
> 
> There is also much to be said about actions of some being extrapolated to actions of all...that too across time and space.
> 
> Should we say all Bangladeshis enjoy murdering their own military people because of Pilkhana?....or all BD people were behind murdering their country founder?....or all Bangladeshis condone Gulshan style ppl?....or all BD people are like what their army did in the atrocities of CHT?.
> 
> If you isolate/delineate the blame for your side and generalise/spread as entire country for others (like in this case saying "Pakistan", many other cases you say "India"....or "Burma" and "China" more recently)....then you are a hypocrite....so don't be shocked when you are treated as such.
> 
> Macbeth started out as relatively good guy too, but he insulated himself to such a degree with only his inner demons, justifying each and everything he did but never trying to apply the process for others....and in the end he became the very thing he swore to destroy....you might want to try learn something from that.
> 
> @django @Joe Shearer @Aung Zaya @Hell hound @Zibago @Desert Fox





Pakistani army was given the task of killing all Hindus in 1971 and you are on record mocking what happened to mainly Hindu BD civilians in 1971. An utter disgrace of a Hindu you are.

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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> Pakistani army was given the task of killing all Hindus in 1971 and you are on record mocking what happened to mainly Hindu BD civilians in 1971. An utter disgrace of a Hindu you are.



Ah right, exactly what Sarmila Bose (who is magnitudes more credible on the issue than BDees that have pole vaulted across oceans and blah blah from there...or actually any BeeDee that has ego-wormed its way into a Pakistan Defence forum in first place) wrote right?

Your numbers are propaganda lies from the onset (certainly no authentic survey was done...like ever, you just picked up from the Indian war propaganda claims to use to found as your friggin national ethos....because thats all your are and ever will be....a bunch of hand-me-down hollow ego twerps, just look at the extended history). So any further discussion on it being "(so called) hindu specific" or whatever is of the same quality as the BD swamp water and street floods in Dhaka (which makes it bottom 5 liveable "city" in the world).

Pakistan army definitely put down a huge number of BD (so called) muslims as well (since religion matters this much to your identity all of a sudden)...its amusing you make out the "resistance" was by BD muslims and the "target" were BD hindus....but pak army somehow skewed their policy against the latter instead of those actually mounting the resistance? All sides of that argument hold at the same time?....erm ok...we've seen similar attempted logic somewhere before havent we @Desert Fox ? (cept the forces that be regarding that one silence all discussion more effectively compared to BD who dont even register anywhere in the world arena in first place). Yay for fake genocide numbers, so called details of the fake genocide and creating atmosphere for it to never be questioned/analysed....the phenomenon is always alive and well for people who feel "wronged" and "bullied" coz of feelz...waaaah.

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> Ah right, exactly what Sarmila Bose (who is magnitudes more credible on the issue than BDees that have pole vaulted across oceans and blah blah from there...or actually any BeeDee that has ego-wormed its way into a Pakistan Defence forum in first place) wrote right?
> 
> Your numbers are propaganda lies from the onset (certainly no authentic survey was done...like ever, you just picked up from the Indian war propaganda claims to use to found as your friggin national ethos....because thats all your are and ever will be....a bunch of hand-me-down hollow ego twerps, just look at the extended history). So any further discussion on it being "(so called) hindu specific" or whatever is of the same quality as the BD swamp water and street floods in Dhaka (which makes it bottom 5 liveable "city" in the world).
> 
> Pakistan army definitely put down a huge number of BD (so called) muslims as well (since religion matters this much to your identity all of a sudden)...its amusing you make out the "resistance" was by BD muslims and the "target" were BD hindus....but pak army somehow skewed their policy against the latter instead of those actually mounting the resistance? All sides of that argument hold at the same time?....erm ok...we've seen similar attempted logic somewhere before havent we @Desert Fox ? (cept the forces that be regarding that one silence all discussion more effectively compared to BD who dont even register anywhere in the world arena in first place). Yay for fake genocide numbers, so called details of the fake genocide and creating atmosphere for it to never be questioned/analysed....the phenomenon is always alive and well for people who feel "wronged" and "bullied" coz of feelz...waaaah.




Like i say an utter disgrace of a Hindu you are.

Disrespecting innocent slain BD Hindus just because 
you are one butt-hurt loser.

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## Centaur

Nilgiri said:


> I "support" (however you have defined it) Pakistan during 1971 or any other time?
> 
> I don't support/sympathise with either side, but I can empathise with certain realities and reactions of both.
> 
> In time of war, esp civil war.... bad stuff inevitably happens on both sides. @Arefin007 and others have posted the direct counterpoint from the other side ( pro-pakistan bengali during 1971) and the atrocities meted out to them just like this shorisrip account. You think any sides hands are clean here? Do you still "support" Bangladesh after reading that stuff? If you do....then apply the standard you are trying with me on yourself first.
> 
> There is also much to be said about actions of some being extrapolated to actions of all...that too across time and space.
> 
> Should we say all Bangladeshis enjoy murdering their own military people because of Pilkhana?....or all BD people were behind murdering their country founder?....or all Bangladeshis condone Gulshan style ppl?....or all BD people are like what their army did in the atrocities of CHT?.
> 
> If you isolate/delineate the blame for your side and generalise/spread as entire country for others (like in this case saying "Pakistan", many other cases you say "India"....or "Burma" and "China" more recently)....then you are a hypocrite....so don't be shocked when you are treated as such.
> 
> Macbeth started out as relatively good guy too, but he insulated himself to such a degree with only his inner demons, justifying each and everything he did but never trying to apply the process for others....and in the end he became the very thing he swore to destroy....you might want to try learn something from that.
> 
> @django @Joe Shearer @Aung Zaya @Hell hound @Zibago @Desert Fox


@Arefin007 what happened to your family brother? How can I read your posts? I can't check your profile so don't for your post! Or there is another way? Just can you post the link here so that I can read?
I want to know the incident!


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## Centaur

UKBengali said:


> Pakistani army was given the task of killing all Hindus in 1971


I have decided not to take part in such argument anymore as there is no solution.
Just sometimes will ask few questions though. 
However, just wondering if the aim of Pakistan Army was to killing Hindus, then I'm wondering still why there are some 17 million Hindus live in Bangladesh and also lots of Hindus live in sindh too?
Do you know the condition of Hindus in the province sindh?
If it's ethnic cleansing, then why they spared the Hindus of sindh?


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## 24 Hours

Centaur said:


> I have decided not to take part in such argument anymore as there is no solution.
> Just sometimes will ask few questions though.
> However, just wondering if the aim of Pakistan Army was to killing Hindus, then I'm wondering still why there are some 17 million Hindus live in Bangladesh and also lots of Hindus live in sindh too?
> Do you know the condition of Hindus in the province sindh?
> If it's ethnic cleansing, then why they spared the Hindus of sindh?


Maybe because not every Hindu was killed? And the Hindu Bengalis lived in East Pakistan and not the West?


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## Joe Shearer

Nilgiri said:


> I "support" (however you have defined it) Pakistan during 1971 or any other time?
> 
> I don't support/sympathise with either side, but I can empathise with certain realities and reactions of both.
> 
> In time of war, esp civil war.... bad stuff inevitably happens on both sides. @Arefin007 and others have posted the direct counterpoint from the other side ( pro-pakistan bengali during 1971) and the atrocities meted out to them just like this shorisrip account. You think any sides hands are clean here? Do you still "support" Bangladesh after reading that stuff? If you do....then apply the standard you are trying with me on yourself first.
> 
> There is also much to be said about actions of some being extrapolated to actions of all...that too across time and space.
> 
> Should we say all Bangladeshis enjoy murdering their own military people because of Pilkhana?....or all BD people were behind murdering their country founder?....or all Bangladeshis condone Gulshan style ppl?....or all BD people are like what their army did in the atrocities of CHT?.
> 
> If you isolate/delineate the blame for your side and generalise/spread as entire country for others (like in this case saying "Pakistan", many other cases you say "India"....or "Burma" and "China" more recently)....then you are a hypocrite....so don't be shocked when you are treated as such.
> 
> Macbeth started out as relatively good guy too, but he insulated himself to such a degree with only his inner demons, justifying each and everything he did but never trying to apply the process for others....and in the end he became the very thing he swore to destroy....you might want to try learn something from that.
> 
> @django @Joe Shearer @Aung Zaya @Hell hound @Zibago @Desert Fox



Very well argued, @Nilgiri, as always. The thing is, you cannot break every occurrence in history down to the level of the atoms that constituted it. You cannot now take into account the standing of every individual Pakistani, every individual Bangladeshi (at that time, East Pakistani) and every individual Indian, and their personal thoughts, feelings and emotions. That is only a superbly argued defence. The facts remain as they are, ugly and unsuitable for gilding. At this point of time, we can only acknowledge them mutely - no point getting into a frenzy about them, that can happen only by forcing ourselves to repeat those extreme emotions - and try to move on. You and I both know that some Bangladeshis behaved like animals; that does not mean that all Bangladeshis are animals, or that all Bangladeshis behave like animals. You and I both know that some Pakistanis behaved like animals; that, similarly, does not mean that all Pakistanis, etc., etc.

I was curious to know why I'd been tagged, so went back and read the last two pages. There were absurdities, there were crudities, there were the usual swines - why is it that a large percentage of these turn out to be right wing Indians? just go back a few posts and you will what I mean - and there were hugely embarrassed individuals asking that things be taken on board, and that we should all move on.

As to that, as to moving on, I know where I was during that period - a helpless onlooker. I just erased a very emotion-laden paragraph because it doesn't help to pick at old scabs; let the past stay there. I don't know where you were, and I'm not asking. It doesn't matter any more. Not at the individual level, that you raised with such consummate and such misplaced skill. It wasn't about intellect at the time, it was raw emotion. And it's all gone, all the emotion, and that is why we can look at it through the deliberately abstracted vision of a Sarmila Bose, whose mother Krishna was so much a part of the volunteer movement at the camps. And so we get these fine arguments about the impossibility of defining a nation as a bloc.

If we are to move on, how do we do that other than by moving on?

" 'What is truth?' said jesting Pilate, and would not pause for an answer."



Nilgiri said:


> Ah right, exactly what Sarmila Bose (who is magnitudes more credible on the issue than BDees that have pole vaulted across oceans and blah blah from there...or actually any BeeDee that has ego-wormed its way into a Pakistan Defence forum in first place) wrote right?
> 
> Your numbers are propaganda lies from the onset (certainly no authentic survey was done...like ever, you just picked up from the Indian war propaganda claims to use to found as your friggin national ethos....because thats all your are and ever will be....a bunch of hand-me-down hollow ego twerps, just look at the extended history). So any further discussion on it being "(so called) hindu specific" or whatever is of the same quality as the BD swamp water and street floods in Dhaka (which makes it bottom 5 liveable "city" in the world).
> 
> Pakistan army definitely put down a huge number of BD (so called) muslims as well (since religion matters this much to your identity all of a sudden)...its amusing you make out the "resistance" was by BD muslims and the "target" were BD hindus....but pak army somehow skewed their policy against the latter instead of those actually mounting the resistance? All sides of that argument hold at the same time?....erm ok...we've seen similar attempted logic somewhere before havent we @Desert Fox ? (cept the forces that be regarding that one silence all discussion more effectively compared to BD who dont even register anywhere in the world arena in first place). Yay for fake genocide numbers, so called details of the fake genocide and creating atmosphere for it to never be questioned/analysed....the phenomenon is always alive and well for people who feel "wronged" and "bullied" coz of feelz...waaaah.



It's up to you. If you keep justifying your hatred of a whole country with these pieces, then it is difficult to read your passages here without outrage, or at the least, resentment.

The answer to your question is 'yes'. Since you have been to Bangladesh so many times, you will have noticed that the Bangladeshi Hindu is a cowed, subservient minority, even the intellectually advanced fraction of the remnants who stayed back as doctors, teachers, lawyers. And they were considered to be the evil geniuses of the Agartala Conspiracy Case, and were deliberately hunted down in very specific campaigns. There is no doubt about this among those who were involved in the hunting down, and it is all on record. Do not insult me or anybody else by asking for citations; when you can quote a publicity seeker from a family that numbers Sugato Bose as her elder sibling and Sumantra as her younger, I can make this glancing allusion with legitimacy, without anything more than a reminder of Anthony Mascarenhas. You want credibility? You will get credibility; ask her mother. She was there in the camps, she was there meeting the bedraggled remains that crawled out, and she knows who were whipped and beaten, and the difference between them and those others who were whipped and inflamed with the need for immediate revenge. The difference was as stark as has been said; the Hindu minority that came across, 90% or more from the villages, almost none surviving the pogroms in the towns or the cities, whether it was the Razakar or the sepoy at the other end, had no fight left in them. It was the Muslims who fought, who found their way out of those camps and into the waiting hands of the Mukti Bahini, and their laughable .303 rifles and home-made bombs.

Do not misuse your intellect.



Centaur said:


> I have decided not to take part in such argument anymore as there is no solution.
> Just sometimes will ask few questions though.
> However, just wondering if the aim of Pakistan Army was to killing Hindus, then I'm wondering still why there are some 17 million Hindus live in Bangladesh and also lots of Hindus live in sindh too?
> Do you know the condition of Hindus in the province sindh?
> If it's ethnic cleansing, then why they spared the Hindus of sindh?



Because not all Hindus were cleansed. Because there was not enough time. 

One of the biggest arguments that we have against the 3 million number is that it was stupid; nobody could have raped, and murdered those numbers with the available strength that was supposed to be doing the raping and killing. Of the 10 million that came across the borders, out of a population of between 65 to 70 million, the vast bulk were Hindus; all of them left the camps and it is believed that the overwhelming bulk returned to Bangladesh. It is those that have bred those who live there now, just as the entire population grew from 65 to 160 million.

Bangladesh happened in hot blood, mostly, leaving aside the Tikka Khans; Sindh is on-going, and as cold-blooded as is possible.



Ashes said:


> Maybe because not every Hindu was killed? And the Hindu Bengalis lived in East Pakistan and not the West?



Precisely. 

Please read below.

I am quite sick of these uber-intellects and their rationalisation of the past.

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## 24 Hours

Joe Shearer said:


> Very well argued, @Nilgiri, as always. The thing is, you cannot break every occurrence in history down to the level of the atoms that constituted it. You cannot now take into account the standing of every individual Pakistani, every individual Bangladeshi (at that time, East Pakistani) and every individual Indian, and their personal thoughts, feelings and emotions. That is only a superbly argued defence. The facts remain as they are, ugly and unsuitable for gilding. At this point of time, we can only acknowledge them mutely - no point getting into a frenzy about them, that can happen only by forcing ourselves to repeat those extreme emotions - and try to move on. You and I both know that some Bangladeshis behaved like animals; that does not mean that all Bangladeshis are animals, or that all Bangladeshis behave like animals. You and I both know that some Pakistanis behaved like animals; that, similarly, does not mean that all Pakistanis, etc., etc.
> 
> I was curious to know why I'd been tagged, so went back and read the last two pages. There were absurdities, there were crudities, there were the usual swines - why is it that a large percentage of these turn out to be right wing Indians? just go back a few posts and you will what I mean - and there were hugely embarrassed individuals asking that things be taken on board, and that we should all move on.
> 
> As to that, as to moving on, I know where I was during that period - a helpless onlooker. I just erased a very emotion-laden paragraph because it doesn't help to pick at old scabs; let the past stay there. I don't know where you were, and I'm not asking. It doesn't matter any more. Not at the individual level, that you raised with such consummate and such misplaced skill. It wasn't about intellect at the time, it was raw emotion. And it's all gone, all the emotion, and that is why we can look at it through the deliberately abstracted vision of a Sarmila Bose, whose mother Krishna was so much a part of the volunteer movement at the camps. And so we get these fine arguments about the impossibility of defining a nation as a bloc.
> 
> If we are to move on, how do we do that other than by moving on?
> 
> " 'What is truth?' said jesting Pilate, and would not pause for an answer."
> 
> 
> 
> It's up to you. If you keep justifying your hatred of a whole country with these pieces, then it is difficult to read your passages here without outrage, or at the least, resentment.
> 
> The answer to your question is 'yes'. Since you have been to Bangladesh so many times, you will have noticed that the Bangladeshi Hindu is a cowed, subservient minority, even the intellectually advanced fraction of the remnants who stayed back as doctors, teachers, lawyers. And they were considered to be the evil geniuses of the Agartala Conspiracy Case, and were deliberately hunted down in very specific campaigns. There is no doubt about this among those who were involved in the hunting down, and it is all on record. Do not insult me or anybody else by asking for citations; when you can quote a publicity seeker from a family that numbers Sugato Bose as her elder sibling and Sumantra as her younger, I can make this glancing allusion with legitimacy, without anything more than a reminder of Anthony Mascarenhas. You want credibility? You will get credibility; ask her mother. She was there in the camps, she was there meeting the bedraggled remains that crawled out, and she knows who were whipped and beaten, and the difference between them and those others who were whipped and inflamed with the need for immediate revenge. The difference was as stark as has been said; the Hindu minority that came across, 90% or more from the villages, almost none surviving the pogroms in the towns or the cities, whether it was the Razakar or the sepoy at the other end, had no fight left in them. It was the Muslims who fought, who found their way out of those camps and into the waiting hands of the Mukti Bahini, and their laughable .303 rifles and home-made bombs.
> 
> Do not misuse your intellect.
> 
> 
> 
> Because not all Hindus were cleansed. Because there was not enough time.
> 
> One of the biggest arguments that we have against the 3 million number is that it was stupid; nobody could have raped, and murdered those numbers with the available strength that was supposed to be doing the raping and killing. Of the 10 million that came across the borders, out of a population of between 65 to 70 million, the vast bulk were Hindus; all of them left the camps and it is believed that the overwhelming bulk returned to Bangladesh. It is those that have bred those who live there now, just as the entire population grew from 65 to 160 million.
> 
> Bangladesh happened in hot blood, mostly, leaving aside the Tikka Khans; Sindh is on-going, and as cold-blooded as is possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely.
> 
> Please read below.
> 
> I am quite sick of these uber-intellects and their rationalisation of the past.


Excellent post sir. Curious, have you read Sarmilla Bose's book yourself? I would like to discuss it with you via e-mail if possible.


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## Joe Shearer

Ashes said:


> Excellent post sir. Curious, have you read Sarmilla Bose's book yourself? I would like to discuss it with you via e-mail if possible.



Yes, certainly. It is sad that Sarat Bose's grand-daughter should have made these claims, in the light of Sarat Bose and Kiron Shankar Roy getting together with Suhrawardy Sahib and tried for an independent Bengal in 1947 itself. Jinnah had in exasperation washed his hands of it; a very alarmed Hindu upper-class and middle-class revolted and brought in Nehru and Patel to quell the 'revolt'. 

You might like to tag @SoulSpokesman in that discussion; you can ask him to take part in that e-mail discussion too. He knows that part of events rather well. You must disregard the extreme right-wing smokescreen that he puts up, mainly to amuse himself at our expense.

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## Centaur

Ashes said:


> Maybe because not every Hindu was killed? And the Hindu Bengalis lived in East Pakistan and not the West?


I am asking for the statistics of the so called genocide. And that's all. 
From now I will just ask for statistics and evidence. And will not add any opinion of mine thanks.


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## Centaur

@ muktizuddher Chetan dharira ( cult members of 1971) , *keep whining about 1971, just don't mix up Islam with it. Don't blame Islam or any Islamic leaders based on children of h.o pseudo intellectuals like humaun Azad's, Jafor Iqbal, shariar murgi bastared kabir or sh!ts like them.

Without concrete evidence don't tag Maulana sahabs as rapist or killers, don't promote your w.h.o.r.e mongering pseudo secularism hindutva over Bangladeshi Islamic culture and heritage.
Keep whining spreading lies, claim that the death numbers were not 3 million but 30 million we have no fucking time to pay attention, just don't use your lies against our religion and religious leaders without concrete evidences.*
Now after Jamat e Islami the hindutva bastareds *targeted other Islamic party leaders like hefajot e Islam, and after finishing the deobandis, the bastareds will catch salafi/able hadeeth leader and so on......*
Leave Islam and Islamic leaders alone and then keep whining, if you spreading your bullshit against our religion then the fate will be too much disastrous.
*So stop tagging Islamic leaders based on writing some pseudo intellectuals bastard like humaun Azad, jafar Iqbal and Shahriar bastard kabir bla bla bla*.. We have no problem both 3 millions or 3 billions.
*Stop promoting pseudo secularism ( hindutva) over our Islamic culture and heritage, Muslims have their limits of tolerance. 
If you guys declared holy war against Islam, then it's mandatory fir all Muslims to fight and die to protect Islam. *
So don't provoke Muslims by degrading Islam, spare the deobandis and all other Islamic leaders and stop spreading hindutva propaganda, and keep whining. Leave us alone.
Bangladesh Government need to counter this anti Islamic bastards from spreading such malignity as soon as possible, otherwise everyone has limits if tolerance. I believe govt will soon counter them. Now let's see what happen after next election.
Don't target Islamic leaders without concrete evidences, and ten start masterbation and get pleasure on dead body numbers.
I am really too much disturbed by the new style of endless whine in every February, March and December. 
Why don't you let Bangladeshi Muslims in peace? If you really want a prosperous Bangladesh then stop deviding us that's all. 
Every years those months come and old chetona vomiting starts. 
Why can't you take action against the country Pakistan in human rights court ( if you really can prove them guilty) instead of those endless barking everythime? 

Just nonsense. Moderators should not allow such provoking whining I believe. It only divide Bangladesh even in this forum.

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## Doctor Strange

The Ronin said:


> Oh, this guy?? Na, i just put him in ignore list after the mockery about 71. i was already annoyed about him after watching his itching for BD military. Still there's no need to argue anymore as i already mentioned the reasons.



Can you believe this chaddi clad charal? When did I mock 71 or have itching for BD military. Mockery was thrown in general for jobless people like you digging 1 year old news and randomly posting. All members were annoyed with that thread. And itching is for bdmilitary(.)com website. People with some brain will put argument before believing anything coming out of that. This brainless charal ronin is recruited by some morons with 50 taka per hour to eat others brain.

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## Centaur

The Last Jedi said:


> Can you believe this chaddi clad charal? When did I mock 71 or have itching for BD military. Mockery was thrown in general for jobless people like you digging 1 year old news and randomly posting. All members were annoyed with that thread. And itching is for bdmilitary(.)com website. People with some brain will put argument before believing anything coming out of that. This brainless charal ronin is recruited by some morons with 50 taka per hour to eat others brain.


I was surprised too when he claimed that he put you in ignore list.
I never had any idea that he is such short and ill tempered!
I was very shocked, I had no idea that he is some sort of extremely intolerant chetona nonsense.

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## 24 Hours

Centaur said:


> @ muktizuddher Chetan dharira ( cult members of 1971) , *keep whining about 1971, just don't mix up Islam with it. Don't blame Islam or any Islamic leaders based on children of h.o pseudo intellectuals like humaun Azad's, Jafor Iqbal, shariar murgi bastared kabir or sh!ts like them.
> 
> Without concrete evidence don't tag Maulana sahabs as rapist or killers, don't promote your w.h.o.r.e mongering pseudo secularism hindutva over Bangladeshi Islamic culture and heritage.
> Keep whining spreading lies, claim that the death numbers were not 3 million but 30 million we have no fucking time to pay attention, just don't use your lies against our religion and religious leaders without concrete evidences.*
> Now after Jamat e Islami the hindutva bastareds *targeted other Islamic party leaders like hefajot e Islam, and after finishing the deobandis, the bastareds will catch salafi/able hadeeth leader and so on......*
> Leave Islam and Islamic leaders alone and then keep whining, if you spreading your bullshit against our religion then the fate will be too much disastrous.
> *So stop tagging Islamic leaders based on writing some pseudo intellectuals bastard like humaun Azad, jafar Iqbal and Shahriar bastard kabir bla bla bla*.. We have no problem both 3 millions or 3 billions.
> *Stop promoting pseudo secularism ( hindutva) over our Islamic culture and heritage, Muslims have their limits of tolerance.
> If you guys declared holy war against Islam, then it's mandatory fir all Muslims to fight and die to protect Islam. *
> So don't provoke Muslims by degrading Islam, spare the deobandis and all other Islamic leaders and stop spreading hindutva propaganda, and keep whining. Leave us alone.
> Bangladesh Government need to counter this anti Islamic bastards from spreading such malignity as soon as possible, otherwise everyone has limits if tolerance. I believe govt will soon counter them. Now let's see what happen after next election.
> Don't target Islamic leaders without concrete evidences, and ten start masterbation and get pleasure on dead body numbers.
> I am really too much disturbed by the new style of endless whine in every February, March and December.
> Why don't you let Bangladeshi Muslims in peace? If you really want a prosperous Bangladesh then stop deviding us that's all.
> Every years those months come and old chetona vomiting starts.
> Why can't you take action against the country Pakistan in human rights court ( if you really can prove them guilty) instead of those endless barking everythime?
> 
> Just nonsense. Moderators should not allow such provoking whining I believe. It only divide Bangladesh even in this forum.





Centaur said:


> I am asking for the statistics of the so called genocide. And that's all.
> From now I will just ask for statistics and evidence. *And will not add any opinion of mine thanks*.


That was a quick 180


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## Centaur

Ashes said:


> That was a quick 180


Nah not that it is just some final hit. It's warning that no one under bangladeshi flag is necessarily patriot.
They need to prove themselves as patriot, otherwise they will be automatically labeled as anti bangladeshi. 
I will not try to prove again that it was civil war not mukti zuddho .
I just want to make sure my fight will only against them who are anti islamic .
Now more attempt from me to prove that why we never needed that war , we had better ways bla bla bla.... simply no advocating to so called brotherhood as a counter of chetona thugs . Even I will not ask for statistics too as they can make it 3 *billion* so calledholy martyr. I will let the dogs bark . They may bark until bangladesh change it's stance
To their ( chetona thug's ) master land India .

*They can whine every single hour I have no problem.
Just they must not offend Islamic leaders , that's all .*
@Ashes


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## Arefin007

Nilgiri said:


> In time of war, esp civil war.... bad stuff inevitably happens on both sides. @Arefin007 and others have posted the direct counterpoint from the other side ( pro-pakistan bengali during 1971) and the atrocities meted out to them just like this shorisrip account. You think any sides hands are clean here? Do you still "support" Bangladesh after reading that stuff? If you do....then apply the standard you are trying with me on yourself first.


Please no more '71, its really boring and stuff and arguing with HSPs is just waste of time. Do assignments, listen to music and play games no more political stuff it really gets me knackered


Centaur said:


> @Arefin007 what happened to your family brother? How can I read your posts? I can't check your profile so don't for your post! Or there is another way? Just can you post the link here so that I can read?
> I want to know the incident!


Nothing mate, just hostilities from the majority towards the pro union segment. You know Saidpur? Some pretty harrowing accounts from there at the end of the war. Indian army took them in I suppose. Mukti Bahini weren't angels them all, especially that sub-militia what was it called, Qadir Bahini or something. Anything who thinks otherwise is naive






Anyways don't wanna go over the '71 thingy again pal. Hope you dont mind

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## Centaur

Arefin007 said:


> Nothing mate, just hostilities from the majority towards the pro union segment. You know Saidpur? Some pretty harrowing accounts from there at the end of the war. Indian army took them in I suppose. Mukti Bahini weren't angels them all, especially that sub-militia what was it called, Qadir Bahini or something. Anything who thinks otherwise is naive


Oh I am extremely sorry for your family my brother.
Just the bitter thing is now majority and winners are Festing on victims corps . But don't worry brother , you are muslim , have faith on allah rahmanur rahim. The jalims who tortured your family will be burning in jahannam habiah as the judgment of Allah is great .


Arefin007 said:


> Anyways pal don't wanna hash up that '71 stuff anymore. Hope you dont mind


No no brother, no mind . No more discussion with you about 71 as it will only increase your grief.
I pray from my heart that may Allah bless you and your family my friend, and also keep you and your family safe .
It's a prayer from the heart for your muslim brother my friend.
Fe amanillah.


@Arefin007

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## Arefin007

Centaur said:


> Oh I am extremely sorry for your family my brother.
> Just the bitter thing is now majority and winners are Festing on victims corps . But don't worry brother , you are muslim , have faith on allah rahmanur rahim. The jalims who tortured your family will be burning in jahannam habiah as the judgment of Allah is great .
> 
> No no brother, no mind . No more discussion with you about 71 as it will only increase your grief.
> I pray from my heart that may Allah bless you and your family my friend, and also keep you and your family safe .
> It's a prayer from the heart for your muslim brother my friend.
> Fe amanillah.
> 
> 
> @Arefin007


Barakallaho feekum. Thanks for your prayer brother. We didnt bear much of the brunt, but rather the Bihari populace. I genuinely feel bad for them

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## Centaur

Arefin007 said:


> Barakallaho feekum. Thanks for your prayer brother. We didnt bear much of the brunt, but rather the Bihari populace. I genuinely feel bad for them


My pleasure brother , and I know that how brutally the poor biharis were tortured by those brutal mukti thugs .
When day by day found and knew the reality , I was changing totally, from an extreme brain washed animal (by chetona machine ) to a *human being. *
I told before that *I was a chetona cultist* almost 10 years ago , *because I thought it was the best way that serve the victims.*
As like many others I also believed that only Bengalis are victims ( of those genocide hoax) . You know propaganda machine works very well to *wash a teenager brain completely.*
Then slowly reality started unveiling to me , and my regrets for my past feelings increased sky high.

In 2007-08 I was praying that jamat leaders must be hanged
But later when they hanged* my tear dropped for those poor political victims.*
And do you know why I am too much offensive too chetona cultist bastards now ?
Because I took it as the *penance* of my past vicious thinking about my Muslim brothers ( rajakars/volunteers).

Thanks to Allah that he started unveiling the reality to me almost 8-10 years ago.
Now I always pray that maybe one day Allah will show the reality too to most of my country fellows . Amin.
@Arefin007

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## 24 Hours

Centaur said:


> @ muktizuddher Chetan dharira ( cult members of 1971) , *keep whining about 1971, just don't mix up Islam with it. Don't blame Islam or any Islamic leaders based on children of h.o pseudo intellectuals like humaun Azad's, Jafor Iqbal, shariar murgi bastared kabir or sh!ts like them.*
> 
> 
> *Without concrete evidence don't tag Maulana sahabs as rapist or killers, don't promote your w.h.o.r.e mongering pseudo secularism hindutva over Bangladeshi Islamic culture and heritage.*
> 
> *Keep whining spreading lies, claim that the death numbers were not 3 million but 30 million we have no fucking time to pay attention, just don't use your lies against our religion and religious leaders without concrete evidences.*
> 
> Now after Jamat e Islami the hindutva bastareds *targeted other Islamic party leaders like hefajot e Islam, and after finishing the deobandis, the bastareds will catch salafi/able hadeeth leader and so on......*
> 
> Leave Islam and Islamic leaders alone and then keep whining, if you spreading your bullshit against our religion then the fate will be too much disastrous.
> 
> *So stop tagging Islamic leaders based on writing some pseudo intellectuals bastard like humaun Azad, jafar Iqbal and Shahriar bastard kabir bla bla bla*.. We have no problem both 3 millions or 3 billions.
> 
> *Stop promoting pseudo secularism ( hindutva) over our Islamic culture and heritage, Muslims have their limits of tolerance.*
> 
> *If you guys declared holy war against Islam, then it's mandatory fir all Muslims to fight and die to protect Islam.*
> 
> So don't provoke Muslims by degrading Islam, spare the deobandis and all other Islamic leaders and stop spreading hindutva propaganda, and keep whining. Leave us alone.
> 
> Bangladesh Government need to counter this anti Islamic bastards from spreading such malignity as soon as possible, otherwise everyone has limits if tolerance. I believe govt will soon counter them. Now let's see what happen after next election.
> 
> Don't target Islamic leaders without concrete evidences, and ten start masterbation and get pleasure on dead body numbers.
> 
> I am really too much disturbed by the new style of endless whine in every February, March and December.
> 
> Why don't you let Bangladeshi Muslims in peace? If you really want a prosperous Bangladesh then stop deviding us that's all.
> 
> Every years those months come and old chetona vomiting starts.
> 
> Why can't you take action against the country Pakistan in human rights court ( if you really can prove them guilty) instead of those endless barking everythime?
> 
> 
> Just nonsense. Moderators should not allow such provoking whining I believe. It only divide Bangladesh even in this forum.





Centaur said:


> Nah not that it is just some final hit. It's warning that no one under bangladeshi flag is necessarily patriot.
> 
> They need to prove themselves as patriot, otherwise they will be automatically labeled as anti bangladeshi.
> 
> I will not try to prove again that it was civil war not mukti zuddho .
> 
> I just want to make sure my fight will only against them who are anti islamic .
> 
> Now more attempt from me to prove that why we never needed that war , we had better ways bla bla bla.... simply no advocating to so called brotherhood as a counter of chetona thugs . Even I will not ask for statistics too as they can make it 3 *billion* so calledholy martyr. I will let the dogs bark . They may bark until bangladesh change it's stance
> 
> To their ( chetona thug's ) master land India .
> 
> 
> *They can whine every single hour I have no problem.*
> 
> *Just they must not offend Islamic leaders , that's all .*
> 
> @Ashes



Your "Islamic" leaders are not prophets nor are they gods. They are ordinary humans and as such they will be rightfully criticized for any awful policy decision that they have done. Ignoring the killings and rapes of 71, regardless of the numbers the fact is we separated. Why should we forget 71? The actual founding of a country? Americans teach children the American revolution against the British that occurred in 1776. Mexican children are taught their revolution against Spain in 1810. The same goes for other Latin American countries in that century. The same also occurs for African and Asian countries that rebelled against their colonial masters in the 20th century. Do they also form a cult when they teach and discuss their independence movements?


In most cases of these revolutions there was no case of genocide or mass killings right before their revolts. Just anger and frustration on the policies of the government that ruled them. Fact is, as East Pakistan we did not prosper. Despite forming the majority of what was then the population of a united Pakistan, West Pakistan had more political representation, government services, and more funding. We will not forget the poor response to the deadly cyclone of 1970, or Mujib’s snub on his right to be the prime minister of Pakistan. As well as the protests of 1952. Even if we ignore the killings of 1971, these factors should tell you that separation was inevitable.


Additionally, your claims of pseudo-secularism is equally similar to the actual Hinduvata enthusiasts who accuse Indian secularists of being Islamists. When this country was founded, it was done so as a secular state. Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and Christians are all have equal rights under our government. This in turn also makes Bangladesh a country for believers and non-believers. Whether you believe in Allah, Brahma, Jesus as the son of God, or the teachings of the Buddha does not make you more special than anyone else. The laws can protect the teachings of Buddha, Muhammad, or Jesus. But, not modern day people like Ahmad Shafi. I will happily and rightfully criticize whatever views he and his followers believe in. As well as other people like them.

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## UKBengali

Centaur said:


> I have decided not to take part in such argument anymore as there is no solution.
> Just sometimes will ask few questions though.
> However, just wondering if the aim of Pakistan Army was to killing Hindus, then I'm wondering still why there are some 17 million Hindus live in Bangladesh and also lots of Hindus live in sindh too?
> Do you know the condition of Hindus in the province sindh?
> If it's ethnic cleansing, then why they spared the Hindus of sindh?




You aware that 10 million BD'shis fled BD during 1971 into India? A huge number of these were Hindus(8 million), far disproportionate to their share of population. Only by fleeing BD did the Hindus manage to escape death at the hands of the PA.

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## Centaur

The Ronin said:


> Anyway মানুষ ছাই উড়ায় রতন খুজার আশায় এইসব বিষ্ঠার পাহাড় ঘাটে না Shormila Bose এর মত গোবর সার পাওয়ার আশায়। *দুই একটা বই পইড়া* এত চেঞ্জ হয়ে *গেছ*!!
> 
> https://www.amarblog.com/udvraanto/posts/132369


*Am I your real life friend?* Perhaps *you* *haven't learn a manner*, that is, with unknown peoples *you are required to* use *আপনি* only, doesn't matter how much do you hate someone.
And also *I never said that I have changed after reading the book dead reckoning*. So stop your dirty game. *I have read the book first in 2014. * I was changed atleast 8/9 years ago ( 2009/10) I believe.
*I just said I was searching for something that can effectively counter those filthy propaganda of chetona cult and Indian stooges and I found dead reckoning as a deadliest weapon against those vicious propaganda,* that's all. And I also don't believe *Any blame on bongobondhu Sheikh Mujib imposed by Mrs Bose. *

I also can post some blog link as I posted for others as a counter, but it's no longer needed.
End of discussion with you about 71 stuff.

@The Ronin


UKBengali said:


> You aware that *10 million BD'shis* fled BD during 1971 into India? A huge number of these were Hindus(*8 million*), far disproportionate to their share of population. Only by fleeing BD did the Hindus manage to escape death at the hands of the PA.


Evidence Please other than the official claim of Bangladesh Government and Indian authority.
P.S.
Look, we both can focus about threads of BD proprietary threads. I know BD Wil not be prosperous if we discussed peacefuly in this forum from for thousands of years, yet BD will not be prosperous until BD peoples will be United and work for country together.
So is it necessary for us ( Bangladeshi everywhere) to fight on some issue?
Don't you think that others will just divide and rule us?
Our confession will not change what happened in 1971.
Why can't we let this topic go and start working together ( in real life not in papers only) for the sake of Bangladesh?
Now you can start another flame baiting argument with me or *we both simply can let it go, and stay in peace and sometimes can talk about better future about Bangladesh. *
There are bigger things to be worried about I believe.



Ashes said:


> Your "Islamic" leaders are not prophets nor are they gods.


Blame them for every crime they have done. Don't blame them for any of those crimes they were never involved.
I said some guys in Bangladesh trying to portray ( doesn't matter whoever portray it) 1971 as Islam vs secularism. I strongly oppose them.
It was just a civil war and both Side was Muslim majority. So 71 was never ever Islam vs pseudo secularism ( hindutva).
And also the post was just my statement. That's all.



Ashes said:


> Why should we forget 71?


Well stay in 71 then, I will move on.

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## UKBengali

Centaur said:


> Evidence Pease other than the official claim of Bangladesh Government and Indian authority.
> P.S.
> Look, we both can focus about threads of BD proprietary threads. I know BD Wil not be prosperous if we discussed peacefuly in this forum from for thousands of years, yet BD will not be prosperous until BD peoples will be United and work for country together.
> So is it necessary for us ( Bangladeshi everywhere) to fight on some issue?
> Don't you think that others will just divide and rule us?
> Our confession will not change what happened in 1971.
> Why can't we let this topic go and start working together ( in real life not in papers only) for the sake of Bangladesh?
> Now you can challenge me as I asked for evidence or can start another flame baiting argument with me or *we both simply can let it go, and stay in peace and sometimes can talk about better future about Bangladesh. *
> There are bugger things to be worried about I believe.





You sound no better than Pakistanis who deny what happened in 1971. Fact is that there were many atrocities committed by an illegitimate Pakistani government during the war- illegitimate as the BD'shis had won the election and so therefore had every right to rule to whole of Pakistan.
BD can move forward and still remember what happened in 1971. AL is taking it a bit too far with the Pakistan hate but no nation should ever forget the wrongs that were done to it.

PS - Even though Hasina is taking the Pakistan bashing a bit too far, BD is doing far far better economically than Pakistan ever can dream of. So this nonsense that BD needs to forget 1971 is just that, nonsense.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

UKBengali said:


> You sound no better than Pakistanis who deny what happened in 1971. Fact is that there were many atrocities committed by an illegitimate Pakistani government during the war- illegitimate as the BD'shis had won the election and so therefore had every right to rule to whole of Pakistan.
> BD can move forward and still remember what happened in 1971. Hasina is taking it a bit too far with the Pakistan hate but no nation should ever forget the wrongs that were done to it.
> 
> PS - Even though Hasina is taking the Pakistan bashing a bit too far, BD is doing far far better economically than Pakistan ever can dream of. So this nonsense that BD needs to forget 1971 is just that, nonsense.






Can we please have irrefutable reliable evidence that the PA committed atrocities in bangladesh in 1971 If not then it's ALL lies like the 3 million bengladeshis allegedly killed in under a month. No more indian or bengali lies. Just the TRUTH. Nearly 50 years of deception and lies needs to end.


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## UKBengali

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Can we please have irrefutable reliable evidence that the PA committed atrocities in bangladesh in 1971 If not then it's ALL lies like 3 million bengalis killed in under a month. No more indian or bengali lies. Just the TRUTH please.




Did I not explain this before?

Only thing in question is the amount of atrocities, not that they happened.


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## Centaur

UKBengali said:


> You sound no better than Pakistanis who deny what happened in 1971.


My position is just moderate. I believe both Side commited some crimes as it is not unnatural during a civil war. 
And here some Bangladeshi posters hold the same position of mine with *slightly different point of view*. I remember their opinions. And also it was basically India Pakistan war . India is responsible for this chaos. There were thousand other ways of mutual separation. *Only chaos started because of Indian involvement.*
Rajakars were Bangladeshi Bengalis who would never fight if India wouldn't involved from the beginning.
However majority commited crime beyond 1971 when east Pakistan lost the war against India, then Mukti force *tortured biharis beyond imagination*. That we always ignore. Only try to say that Bengalis are only victims.
That's why I sometimes reacted too much for the sake of humanity.
But it looks it's useless now. So I decided to move on.
I will not go for further explanation and it may provoke another heated debate. We ( Bengalis) are too much intolerant peoples beyond imagination of others. Thank you.
@UKBengali

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

UKBengali said:


> Did I not explain this before?
> 
> Only thing in question is the amount of atrocities, not that they happened.




Very convenient that you can throw baseless accusations against the PA without ANY evidence by using a flimsy excuse. That too for nearly 50 years. This means that EVERYTHING the bengalis and indians say about the 1971 war is a complete and utter LIE & FABRICATION.


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## 24 Hours

Centaur said:


> Blame them for every crime they have done. Don't blame them for any of those crimes they were never involved.
> I said some guys in Bangladesh trying to portray ( doesn't matter whoever portray it) 1971 as *Islam vs secularism.* I strongly oppose them.
> It was just a civil war and both Side was Muslim majority. So 71 was never ever Islam vs pseudo secularism ( hindutva).
> And also the post was just my statement. That's all.
> 
> 
> Well stay in 71 then, I will move on.


Since when did this occur? Pakistan was more secular at the time anyway. It was more of an ethnic/political conflict than anything else.


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## UKBengali

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Very convenient that you can throw baseless accusations against the PA without ANY evidence by using a flimsy excuse. That too for nearly 50 years. This means that EVERYTHING the bengalis and indians say about the 1971 war is a complete and utter LIE & FABRICATION.




Dude, I have heard first-hand stories from my relations of innocent civilians being lined up and shot by PA in 1971.
What would someone like you know about the reality on the ground compared to me?
You do not need to deny the conduct of the PA during 1971 for some misplaced sense of nationalism. They did the acts and not you remember and so this is not against you.
I suggest you start off trying to actually understand how 1971 came about by google neural sources about how BD was subsidising the Pakistan army(95% W Pakistani) and the industrialisation and infrastructure of W Pakistan. Why do you think that the Pakistani economy was held to be star in the 1950s & 1960s but went into a downward spiral ever since?

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## Centaur

Ashes said:


> Since when did this occur? Pakistan was more secular at the time anyway. It was more of an ethnic/political conflict than anything else.


You are not the only person who is Bangladeshi. Sometimes try to.observe the pseudo intellectuals of Bangladesh. You will learn about their so called secularism whining.
In reality they are just creating flame in Bangladesh, provoking peoples. Since the shahbag time. Pay attention to Bangladesh deeply.
Bangladeshi population aren't nearly tolerant like westerns.
So such heinous acts they ( pseudo hindutva) are doing in order to create chaos in Bangladesh.
Observe their stance on current rohingya issue. They used to say it was the internal issue of miyanmer, now saying that stop helping rohingyas as they already have so much so.they are selling everything, doing crime bla bla bla...
The same peoples are trying to portray Islamic leader as war criminals.
However in order to counter them Mr pinaki bhattacharya wrote a book named মুক্তি যুদ্ধের বয়ানে ইসলাম. I read this book, although I don't agree with lots of points, yet It is a balance between both Side. ( chetona and pro Pakistani) .
@Ashes

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

UKBengali said:


> Dude, I have heard first-hand stories from my relations of innocent civilians being lined up and shot by PA in 1971.
> What would someone like you know about the reality on the ground compared to me?
> You do not need to deny the conduct of the PA during 1971 for some misplaced sense of nationalism. They did the acts and not you remember and so this is not against you.
> I suggest you start off trying to actually understand how 1971 came about by google neural sources about how BD was subsidising the Pakistan army(95% W Pakistani) and the industrialisation and infrastructure of W Pakistan. Why do you think that the Pakistani economy was held to be star in the 1950s & 1960s but went into a downward spiral ever since?







The above is meaningless conjecture. We need hard facts and evidence. Equally, I have heard stories how the PA largely remained in their barracks and only carried out limited operations to maintain law and order. bengladeshis were mainly killing other bangladeshis. We get the balme for that even though the facts insinuate otherwise. First it was 3 million killed, now 300,000, next it will be 30,000, 3000, 300, 30 then only 3 killed by the PA. indians and bengalis have been spreading lies about the the role of the PA in bangladesh in 1971 for nearly 50 years, so now that this lie has been exposed you have a very convenient excuse about data collection to explain it away.


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## Arefin007

War of words goin on...the blood aint on my hands, Kasabian here, proper Brit-rock

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## Nilgiri

Joe Shearer said:


> The answer to your question is 'yes'. Since you have been to Bangladesh so many times, you will have noticed that the Bangladeshi Hindu is a cowed, subservient minority, even the intellectually advanced fraction of the remnants who stayed back as doctors, teachers, lawyers. And they were considered to be the evil geniuses of the Agartala Conspiracy Case, and were deliberately hunted down in very specific campaigns. There is no doubt about this among those who were involved in the hunting down, and it is all on record. Do not insult me or anybody else by asking for citations; when you can quote a publicity seeker from a family that numbers Sugato Bose as her elder sibling and Sumantra as her younger, I can make this glancing allusion with legitimacy, without anything more than a reminder of Anthony Mascarenhas. You want credibility? You will get credibility; ask her mother. She was there in the camps, she was there meeting the bedraggled remains that crawled out, and she knows who were whipped and beaten, and the difference between them and those others who were whipped and inflamed with the need for immediate revenge. The difference was as stark as has been said; the Hindu minority that came across, 90% or more from the villages, almost none surviving the pogroms in the towns or the cities, whether it was the Razakar or the sepoy at the other end, had no fight left in them. It was the Muslims who fought, who found their way out of those camps and into the waiting hands of the Mukti Bahini, and their laughable .303 rifles and home-made bombs.



Throughout the whole course of the war, what would you say was the composition of the refugees that fled to India by religion?

I personally do not subscribe to religion based motive for Pak army long term (anymore that is, I was pretty much sold on it earlier in life). They may have been easier local scapegoats (and who really knows how much that was aided by East Bengali majority since own motifs during and since partition too.... given there was no scale of pogroms of Hindus in West Pakistan during 71) .....at first like any real civil war starts with (and hence the large waves that arrived)...and the operation searchlight names bear testimony to that..... and also largely because they (E Bengal Hindus) had India to turn to near-immediately more so than the East Bengal Muslims (by all the essence and reality of that created in the partition maelstrom and nightmares of noakhali etc)....but when the real massive conflict started, given do or die nature perception on both sides....I think definitely casualty rate regardless of religion went up...otherwise Pakistan Army logistically will lose in no time flat. There is no final credible breakdown of final casualties (armed or un-armed)....everyone largely relies on their personal perception of it.

The large body of my ire directed in my previous post was due to that individual implying I should have a different stance to some group of another nation's people....by virtue of them being Hindu (in some definition of his) rather than just people period (and at other times they conveniently change tack on that). They used this same line with me over and over again when I clearly state I am totally against the LTTE, PLOTE and all the other terrorist groups that were formented in the churn of Lanka....just because in my long list of identities, there is Tamil and Hindu there. I am supposed to support/sympathise with Hindus or whatever no matter where they are and who they are and what the circumstances are (i know its tough subject as you know regarding partition and choices made by people leaving and staying on all sides and the continued lingering acrimony which must have been fresh back then).....just because they are Hindu....and woe befall on all of the "other" doing harm on them...because they are not Hindu....and theres no such thing as a bad/unlucky/ignorant/deluded/combination of whatever Hindu? Honestly if the Hindu Bengalis that remained in E. Pakistan after partition and many remain there still are so intellectually devoted and weak in every department, then they really should have known better esp from what was going on in Partition...I'm not totally blaming them for staying (its complicated given we have hindsight now but not as much then before it all went down) but neither are they fully blame free given the clear environment generated (well before partition even but accelerated drastically during it) and if they were so apt and smart and tied to this and that conspiracy already....and obv knew about it all....wouldn't they have left in much greater numbers than they did? Again all parts of the argument do not really hold for me in the extent to the numbers being spoken of....and people that ignore/delude themselves beyond evidence on the ground get more empathy for their circumstances from me than full on sympathy....and there is a key distinction for me between the two....and its muddied and hazy for large part given the time and space between me and them....and large overall unreliability of all those conveying the information from that time and space to my time and space (but I will take your word on the issue to whatever you feel you can commentate on to large degree because I find you credible given your history and personal experience...which is why I really tagged you in first place)....thats my basic dilemma when people make this a particular recurring topic on this subforum.

And yes no matter how Sarmila Bose may be compromised in her personal opinion, she is definitely far more credible on the issue than most BD posters here....she actually talked and gathered info from all sides...next to no BD people here have done so...even when they really should have when they throw numbers around without questioning where the numbers come from....but I do thank you for your perspective on her and her work...what would you say is good reading material that counters her account in specific terms?

BTW @Joe Shearer at any point its too much to talk about etc....I completely understand...this is pretty sad sobering stuff since you were there on the ground....and you saw things firsthand....internet is pretty lousy place to conduct this kind of topic tbh....which in itself tells me a lot about ppl keep bringing it up and tagging me to try make me feel in some way they want me to...on account of their perceived identity politics in some specific way

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## SoulSpokesman

@Joe Shearer

*It is sad that Sarat Bose's grand-daughter should have made these claims, in the light of Sarat Bose and Kiron Shankar Roy*

Actually, quite the reverse. Her karnameys can be well explained by either her being Sarat Bose's grand daughter; or Subhas babu's great niece.

Regards


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## The Ronin

Ok this isn't my writing though , i kept it as note. After seeing people raising question about the 3 million i am posting the translated version here.

It has been 42 years since the war of liberation. I heard that 30 lakh martyrs and two lakh mother sisters have been tortured. I have heard about the terrible massacre of the night on 25 March. I have never expressed doubts about these numbers because of my heartfelt love. Do not do it anymore. But in the TV talk show, now 30 lakhs 3 lakh martyrs or 2 lakh 9 20-25 thousand women have been oppressed. It hurts. Some people sit with the calculator again, say 9 months of war, and calculate the day when they die about 3 million in 266 days. 30 lakhs understand? To kill 3 million people, 11719 people will be killed in one day and 781 girls in the day will be raped, 94 thousand Pakistani women have killed so much and raped them. I can not answer them. So I started reading to answer. I read, I am sitting to write now. At the bottom of the estimation I will show that the number of 30 million martyrs could have been more and more in Anayasayet.



In 1981, the United Nations organized massacre in Bangladesh in 1971 as the biggest genocide in the world. According to their statistics, 6,000 to 12,000 thousand people were killed by the Pakistani army on the day. As if he had lowered Bangladesh and 6000 * 256 = 1536000 or 15 thousand and thirty-six thousand people died. How does anyone count on 3 lakh martyrs sitting in the talk box? If you do 12,000, then thousands of thousands of people have died. As many as 30 lakh martyrs say that we are ignoring the remaining seventy-two thousand martyrs.

Show some more estimates, the total population of Bangladesh in 1971 was seven and a half quarters. Then there was an average of 5 people per family in Bangladesh. As such, 150 lakh families in Bangladesh. As a result, at least one family in every family is 32.55%. There are families and almost all of them have died or one has to choose between two. In my family, three were dead (my grandfather's brother is a boy and my little puff). And this 32.55% of the family deaths are not small.

Now, according to the Pakistani and their collaborators, 94,000 Pakistani soldiers, 73 thousand al-Badr (according to Pakistani al-Badr expert Mansur Khaled), 50000 al-Shams and more than 20000 razakars, like Razakars If we add, then there will be a total of 237,000 people who fought for Pakistan. To kill 307,200 people, everybody should kill an average 13 people. It is understood from the general estimation that killing only 13 people in 265 days is not a difficult thing to do.

And the reckoning of the birangans is fairly similar. Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, who returned to Bangladesh on January 10, 1972, after being released from captivity in Pakistan, first said in the public that two to two and a half million women were victims of sexual assault in the war. Later this number started to be considered official statistics. But on December 16, 1972, a special number of genocide of Daily Bangla Bani was reported, that this statistic was based on assumptions. Australian physician Geoffrey Davis made statistics through a sample survey conducted across the country and in a few sample districts in the northern region, reports that 4 to 430,000 women were raped in the war of liberation. According to the study conducted by the Uppsala University of Sweden, there are two lakhs, three lakhs and four lakhs of such three figures. So if I have taken more estimates, I mean 4 lakhs of heroines, then every Pakistani and their collaborators have to torture 1.68 women. The number is not too irrational here.



Another statistics say that in Pakistan, the Pakistani army had killed only about 10 lakh people in Dhaka. We have not got the exact estimation of all the districts of the whole of Bangladesh. According to the same information, 15 lakhs in Khulna, 75 thousand in Jessore, 95 thousand in Comilla, and 1 lakh people in Chittagong who killed the **** aggressor and their collaborators. Only around 4 million people have been close to 27 lakhs. My personal sense was a lot more martyr.

If there were three million people on one side, perhaps on Facebook, it would be 720 kilometers, which is 80 times the height of Mount Everest! If 3 million people stand by hand with their hands, then it will be 1100 kilometers, from Teknaf More than the distance between the Tentulia! The amount of blood in the body of 30 million people is 1.5 crores, which is per se in the river Padma. If you have to kill 3 million people in 266 days, then you have to kill more than 7 people every minute.

The numbers above are the spirit of our liberation war, our hardships, the power to move forward in front of us. Our responsibility is to take this trouble into force and take vengeance on their self-sacrifice. We are very aware now. But there is a lot of unconsciousness in us. We are blind for politics, nobody is blind for religion. Sadly, the angle for the country is not blind. Just be aware. Some countries would not have been bad. The remaining two percent of the blind could answer and answer.

Information sources:

১। <atitle="http://mukto-mona.net/new_site/mukto-mona/Articles/kasem/mathematics_genocide.htm"href="http://mukto-mona.net/new_site/mukto-mona/Articles/kasem/mathematics_genocide.htm">http://mukto-mona.net/new_site/mukto-mona/Articles/kasem/mathematics_genocide.htm

২।আলবদর ১৯৭১,মুনতাসির মামুন



৩।http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html

*Case Study:
Genocide in Bangladesh, 1971*

*Summary*

The mass killings in Bangladesh (then East Pakistan) in 1971 vie with the annihilation of the *Soviet POWs*, the *holocaust against the Jews*, and the *genocide in Rwanda* as the most concentrated act of genocide in the twentieth century. In an attempt to crush forces seeking independence for East Pakistan, the West Pakistani military regime unleashed a systematic campaign of mass murder which aimed at killing millions of Bengalis, and likely succeeded in doing so.

*The background*

East and West Pakistan were forged in the cauldron of independence for the Indian sub-continent, ruled for two hundred years by the British. Despite the attempts of Mahatma Gandhi and others to prevent division along religious and ethnic lines, the departing British and various Indian politicians pressed for the creation of two states, one Hindu-dominated (India), the other Muslim-dominated (Pakistan). The partition of India in 1947 was one of the great tragedies of the century. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed in sectarian violence and military clashes, as Hindus fled to India and Muslims to Pakistan -- though large minorities remained in each country.

The arrangement proved highly unstable, leading to three major wars between India and Pakistan, and very nearly a fourth fullscale conflict in 1998-99. (*Kashmir*, divided by a ceasefire line after the first war in 1947, became one of the world's most intractable trouble-spots.) Not the least of the difficulties was the fact that the new state of Pakistan consisted of two "wings," divided by hundreds of miles of Indian territory and a gulf of ethnic identification. Over the decades, particularly after Pakistani democracy was stifled by a military dictatorship (1958), the relationship between East and West became progressively more corrupt and neo-colonial in character, and opposition to West Pakistani domination grew among the Bengali population.

*Sheikh Mujibur Rahman*



Catastrophic floods struck Bangladesh in August 1970, and the regime was widely seen as having botched (or ignored) its relief duties. The disaster gave further impetus to the Awami League, led by Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. The League demanded regional autonomy for East Pakistan, and an end to military rule. In national elections held in December, the League won an overwhelming victory across Bengali territory.

On February 22, 1971 the generals in West Pakistan took a decision to crush the Awami League and its supporters. It was recognized from the first that a campaign of genocide would be necessary to eradicate the threat: "Kill three million of them," said President Yahya Khan at the February conference, "and the rest will eat out of our hands." (Robert Payne, _Massacre_ [1972], p. 50.) On March 25 the genocide was launched. The university in Dacca was attacked and students exterminated in their hundreds. Death squads roamed the streets of Dacca, killing some 7,000 people in a single night. It was only the beginning. "Within a week, half the population of Dacca had fled, and at least 30,000 people had been killed. Chittagong, too, had lost half its population. All over East Pakistan people were taking flight, and it was estimated that in April some thirty million people [!] were wandering helplessly across East Pakistan to escape the grasp of the military." (Payne,_Massacre_, p. 48.) Ten million refugees fled to India, overwhelming that country's resources and spurring the eventual Indian military intervention. (The population of Bangladesh/East Pakistan at the outbreak of the genocide was about 75 million.)

On April 10, the surviving leadership of the Awami League declared Bangladesh independent. The Mukhta Bahini (liberation forces) were mobilized to confront the West Pakistani army. They did so with increasing skill and effectiveness, utilizing their knowledge of the terrain and ability to blend with the civilian population in classic guerrilla fashion. By the end of the war, the tide had turned, and vast areas of Bangladesh had been liberated by the popular resistance.

*The gendercide against Bengali men*

The war against the Bengali population proceeded in classic gendercidal fashion. According to Anthony Mascarenhas, "There is no doubt whatsoever about the targets of the genocide":

They were: (1) The Bengali militarymen of the East Bengal Regiment, the East Pakistan Rifles, police and para-military Ansars and Mujahids. (2) The Hindus -- "We are only killing the men; the women and children go free. We are soldiers not cowards to kill them ..." I was to hear in Comilla [site of a major military base] [Comments R.J. Rummel: "One would think that murdering an unarmed man was a heroic act" (_Death By Government_, p. 323)] (3) The Awami Leaguers -- all office bearers and volunteers down to the lowest link in the chain of command. (4) The students -- college and university boys and some of the more militant girls. (5) Bengali intellectuals such as professors and teachers whenever damned by the army as "militant." (Anthony Mascarenhas, _The Rape of Bangla Desh_ [Delhi: Vikas Publications, 1972(?)], pp. 116-17.)
Mascarenhas's summary makes clear the linkages between gender and social class (the "intellectuals," "professors," "teachers," "office bearers," and -- obviously -- "militarymen" can all be expected to be overwhelmingly if not exclusively male, although in many cases their families died or fell victim to other atrocities alongside them). In this respect, the Bangladesh events can be classed as a combined gendercide and _elitocide_, with both strategies overwhelmingly targeting males for the most annihilatory excesses.

*Bengali man and boys massacred
by the West Pakistani regime.*
​Younger men and adolescent boys, of whatever social class, were equally targets. According to Rounaq Jahan, "All through the liberation war, able-bodied young men were suspected of being actual or potential freedom fighters. Thousands were arrested, tortured, and killed. Eventually cities and towns became bereft of young males who either took refuge in India or joined the liberation war." Especially "during the first phase" of the genocide, he writes, "young able-bodied males were the victims of indiscriminate killings." ("Genocide in Bangladesh," in Totten _et al._, _Century of Genocide_, p. 298.) R.J. Rummel likewise writes that "the Pakistan army [sought] out those especially likely to join the resistance -- young boys. Sweeps were conducted of young men who were never seen again. Bodies of youths would be found in fields, floating down rivers, or near army camps. As can be imagined, this terrorized all young men and their families within reach of the army. Most between the ages of fifteen and twenty-five began to flee from one village to another and toward India. Many of those reluctant to leave their homes were forced to flee by mothers and sisters concerned for their safety." (_Death By Government_, p. 329.) Rummel describes (p. 323) a chilling gendercidal ritual, reminiscent of Nazi procedure towards*Jewish males*: "In what became province-wide acts of genocide, Hindus were sought out and killed on the spot. As a matter of course, soldiers would check males for the obligated circumcision among Moslems. If circumcised, they might live; if not, sure death."

Robert Payne describes scenes of systematic mass slaughter around Dacca that, while not explicitly "gendered" in his account, bear every hallmark of classic gender-selective roundups and gendercidal slaughters of non-combatant men:

​In the dead region surrounding Dacca, the military authorities conducted experiments in mass extermination in places unlikely to be seen by journalists. At Hariharpara, a once thriving village on the banks of the Buriganga River near Dacca, they found the three elements necessary for killing people in large numbers: a prison in which to hold the victims, a place for executing the prisoners, and a method for disposing of the bodies. The prison was a large riverside warehouse, or godown, belonging to the Pakistan National Oil Company, the place of execution was the river edge, or the shallows near the shore, and the bodies were disposed of by the simple means of permitting them to float downstream. The killing took place night after night. Usually the prisoners were roped together and made to wade out into the river. They were in batches of six or eight, and in the light of a powerful electric arc lamp, they were easy targets, black against the silvery water. The executioners stood on the pier, shooting down at the compact bunches of prisoners wading in the water. There were screams in the hot night air, and then silence. The prisoners fell on their sides and their bodies lapped against the shore. Then a new bunch of prisoners was brought out, and the process was repeated. In the morning the village boatmen hauled the bodies into midstream and the ropes binding the bodies were cut so that each body drifted separately downstream. (Payne, _Massacre_ [Macmillan, 1973], p. 55.)
Strikingly similar and equally hellish scenes are described in the case-studies of *genocide in Armenia* and *the Nanjing Massacre* of 1937.

*Atrocities against Bengali women*

As was also the case in *Armenia* and *Nanjing*, Bengali women were targeted for gender-selective atrocities and abuses, notably gang sexual assault and rape/murder, from the earliest days of the Pakistani genocide. Indeed, despite (and in part because of) the overwhelming targeting of males for mass murder, it is for the systematic brutalization of women that the "Rape of Bangladesh" is best known to western observers.

In her ground-breaking book, _Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape_, Susan Brownmiller likened the 1971 events in Bangladesh to the Japanese rapes in Nanjing and German rapes in Russia during World War II. "... 200,000, 300,000 or possibly 400,000 women (three sets of statistics have been variously quoted) were raped. Eighty percent of the raped women were Moslems, reflecting the population of Bangladesh, but Hindu and Christian women were not exempt. ... Hit-and-run rape of large numbers of Bengali women was brutally simple in terms of logistics as the Pakistani regulars swept through and occupied the tiny, populous land ..." (p. 81).

Typical was the description offered by reporter Aubrey Menen of one such assault, which targeted a recently-married woman:

Two [Pakistani soldiers] went into the room that had been built for the bridal couple. The others stayed behind with the family, one of them covering them with his gun. They heard a barked order, and the bridegroom's voice protesting. Then there was silence until the bride screamed. Then there was silence again, except for some muffled cries that soon subsided. In a few minutes one of the soldiers came out, his uniform in disarray. He grinned to his companions. Another soldier took his place in the extra room. And so on, until all the six had raped the belle of the village. Then all six left, hurriedly. The father found his daughter lying on the string cot unconscious and bleeding. Her husband was crouched on the floor, kneeling over his vomit. (Quoted in Brownmiller, _Against Our Will_, p. 82.)
"Rape in Bangladesh had hardly been restricted to beauty," Brownmiller writes. "Girls of eight and grandmothers of seventy-five had been sexually assaulted ... Pakistani soldiers had not only violated Bengali women on the spot; they abducted tens of hundreds and held them by force in their military barracks for nightly use." Some women may have been raped as many as eighty times in a night (Brownmiller, p. 83). How many died from this atrocious treatment, and how many more women were murdered as part of the generalized campaign of destruction and slaughter, can only be guessed at (see below).

Despite government efforts at amelioration, the torment and persecution of the survivors continued long after Bangladesh had won its independence:

Rape, abduction and forcible prostitution during the nine-month war proved to be only the first round of humiliation for the Bengali women. Prime Minister Mujibur Rahman's declaration that victims of rape were national heroines was the opening shot of an ill-starred campaign to reintegrate them into society -- by smoothing the way for a return to their husbands or by finding bridegrooms for the unmarried [or widowed] ones from among his Mukti Bahini freedom fighters. Imaginative in concept for a country in which female chastity and purdah isolation are cardinal principles, the "marry them off" campaign never got off the ground. Few prospective bridegrooms stepped forward, and those who did made it plain that they expected the government, as father figure, to present them with handsome dowries. (Brownmiller, _Against Our Will_, p. 84.)
*How many died?*

The number of dead in Bangladesh in 1971 was almost certainly well into seven figures. It was one of the worst genocides of the World War II era, outstripping Rwanda (800,000 killed) and probably surpassing even Indonesia (1 million to 1.5 million killed in 1965-66). As R.J. Rummel writes,

The human death toll over only 267 days was incredible. Just to give for five out of the eighteen districts some incomplete statistics published in Bangladesh newspapers or by an Inquiry Committee, the Pakistani army killed 100,000 Bengalis in Dacca, 150,000 in Khulna, 75,000 in Jessore, 95,000 in Comilla, and 100,000 in Chittagong. For eighteen districts the total is 1,247,000 killed. This was an incomplete toll, and to this day no one really knows the final toll. Some estimates of the democide [Rummel's "death by government"] are much lower -- one is of 300,000 dead -- but most range from 1 million to 3 million. ... The Pakistani army and allied paramilitary groups killed about one out of every sixty-one people in Pakistan overall; one out of every twenty-five Bengalis, Hindus, and others in East Pakistan. If the rate of killing for all of Pakistan is annualized over the years the Yahya martial law regime was in power (March 1969 to December 1971), then this one regime was more lethal than that of the Soviet Union, China under the communists, or Japan under the military (even through World War II). (Rummel, _Death By Government_, p. 331.)
The proportion of men versus women murdered is impossible to ascertain, but a speculation might be attempted. If we take the highest estimates for both women raped and Bengalis killed (400,000 and 3 million, respectively); if we accept that half as many women were killed as were raped; and if we double that number for murdered children of both sexes (total: 600,000), we are still left with a death-toll that is 80 percent adult male (2.4 million out of 3 million). Any such disproportion, which is almost certainly on the low side, would qualify Bangladesh as one of the worst gendercides against men in the last half-millennium.

*Who was responsible?*

"For month after month in all the regions of East Pakistan the massacres went on," writes Robert Payne. "They were not the small casual killings of young officers who wanted to demonstrate their efficiency, but organized massacres conducted by sophisticated staff officers, who knew exactly what they were doing. Muslim soldiers, sent out to kill Muslim peasants, went about their work mechanically and efficiently, until killing defenseless people became a habit like smoking cigarettes or drinking wine. ... Not since Hitler invaded Russia had there been so vast a massacre." (Payne, _Massacre_, p. 29.)

There is no doubt that the mass killing in Bangladesh was among the most carefully and centrally planned of modern genocides. A cabal of five Pakistani generals orchestrated the events: President Yahya Khan, General Tikka Khan, chief of staff General Pirzada, security chief General Umar Khan, and intelligence chief General Akbar Khan. The U.S. government, long supportive of military rule in Pakistan, supplied some \\$3.8 million in military equipment to the dictatorship _after_ the onset of the genocide, "and after a government spokesman told Congress that all shipments to Yahya Khan's regime had ceased." (Payne, _Massacre_, p. 102.)

The genocide and gendercidal atrocities were also perpetrated by lower-ranking officers and ordinary soldiers. These "willing executioners" were fuelled by an abiding anti-Bengali racism, especially against the Hindu minority. "Bengalis were often compared with monkeys and chickens. Said Pakistan General Niazi, 'It was a low lying land of low lying people.' The Hindus among the Bengalis were as Jews to the Nazis: scum and vermin that [should] best be exterminated. As to the Moslem Bengalis, they were to live only on the sufferance of the soldiers: any infraction, any suspicion cast on them, any need for reprisal, could mean their death. And the soldiers were free to kill at will. The journalist Dan Coggin quoted one Punjabi captain as telling him, 'We can kill anyone for anything. We are accountable to no one.' This is the arrogance of Power." (Rummel, _Death By Government_, p. 335.)

*The aftermath*



On December 3, India under Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, seeking to return the millions of Bengali refugees and seize an opportunity to weaken its perennial military rival, finally launched a fullscale intervention to crush West Pakistani forces and secure Bangladeshi independence. The Pakistani army, demoralized by long months of guerrilla warfare, quickly collapsed. On December 16, after a final genocidal outburst, the Pakistani regime agreed to an unconditional surrender. Awami leader Sheikh Mujib was released from detention and returned to a hero's welcome in Dacca on January 10, 1972, establishing Bangladesh's first independent parliament.

In a brutal bloodletting following the expulsion of the Pakistani army, perhaps 150,000 people were murdered by the vengeful victors. (Rummel, _Death By Government_, p. 334.) The trend is far too common in such post-genocidal circumstances (see the case-studies of *Rwanda*, *Bosnia-Herzegovina*, *Kosovo*, and the *Soviet POWs*). Such largescale reprisal killings also tend to have a gendercidal character, which may have been the case in Bangladesh: Jahan writes that during the reprisal stage, "another group of Bengali _men_ in the rural areas -- those who were coerced or bribed to collaborate with the Pakistanis -- fell victims to the attacks of Bengali freedom fighters." ("Genocide in Bangladesh," p. 298; emphasis added.)

None of the generals involved in the genocide has ever been brought to trial, and all remain at large in Pakistan and other countries. Several movements have arisen to try to bring them before an international tribunal (see Bangladesh links for further information).

Political and military upheaval did not end with Bangladeshi independence. Rummel notes that "the massive bloodletting by all parties in Bangladesh affected its politics for the following decades. The country has experienced military coup after military coup, some of them bloody." (_Death By Government_, p. 334.)

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## Joe Shearer

SoulSpokesman said:


> @Joe Shearer
> 
> *It is sad that Sarat Bose's grand-daughter should have made these claims, in the light of Sarat Bose and Kiron Shankar Roy*
> 
> Actually, quite the reverse. Her karnameys can be well explained by either her being Sarat Bose's grand daughter; or Subhas babu's great niece.
> 
> Regards



LOL.

Never thought of THAT twist. Could you expand on it?


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## SoulSpokesman

Simple, Dada. Either she is a traitor (like Sarat babu) or a nutcase (like Netaji).

This of course assumes that personality traits are inherited, which maynot be the case.

Regards


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## Shorisrip

SoulSpokesman said:


> Simple, Dada. Either she is a traitor (like Sarat babu) or a nutcase (like Netaji).
> 
> This of course assumes that personality traits are inherited, which maynot be the case.
> 
> Regards



You seem to be the crazy one if you talk poorly of those leaders.

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## Homo Sapiens

UKBengali said:


> Dude, I have heard first-hand stories from my relations of innocent civilians being lined up and shot by PA in 1971.
> What would someone like you know about the reality on the ground compared to me?


My own uncle(mom's elder brother) was blindfolded and taken to a river bank to shoot by Pak army.He was then10th grade student.But miraculously just before the shooting, a local collaborator(was also a distant relative of our's) rushed to the scene, intervened and saved his life.Later my uncle joined the Mukti Bahini.


UKBengali said:


> I suggest you start off trying to actually understand how 1971 came about by google neural sources about how BD was subsidising the Pakistan army(95% W Pakistani) and the industrialisation and infrastructure of W Pakistan. Why do you think that the Pakistani economy was held to be star in the 1950s & 1960s but went into a downward spiral ever since?


East Pakistan was both a source of revenue+export surplus to finance higher import of west Pakistan as well as a captive market to the industrial goods produced in West Pakistan.No wonder, immediately after 1971, West Pakistani industrial output fell by half.This was the main basis of west Pakistani boom period of 1950s and 1960s.Second major factor was lavish American aids and grants.So you can see, Pakistan need an internal colony and American dollar to survive and flourish.Currently Pakistan has no internal colony and American dole money is drying up.So the economic turmoil Pakistan is facing today. 

One of the point in six-point demand was 'prevent capital flight from East Pakistan to West Pakistan'. Most of the banking money from east Pakistan were taken to west Pakistan which used to fund industrialization and other project there. For this reason, Bangladesh lost a lot of these banking savings after independence.When we talk about 'unfulfilled division of assets' we mainly refers to that bank savings which were not given back from west Pakistani banks.

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## Centaur

SoulSpokesman said:


> Simple, Dada. Either she is a traitor (like Sarat babu) or a nutcase (like Netaji).
> 
> This of course assumes that personality traits are inherited, which maynot be the case.
> 
> Regards


Visit a fan page in face book named "Rss-রাষ্ট্রবাদী শিব সেনা". 
They are calling gandhi as traitor and Satan and praising subhas Bose.
You are degrading subhas Bose and sharat Bose. 
Actually who is right? I think neither.


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## SoulSpokesman

@Centaur

*They are calling gandhi as traitor and Satan and praising subhas Bose. You are degrading subhas Bose and sharat Bose. Actually who is right? I think neither.*

Actually both of us. The gandhooji and Sarat babu both were traitors the younger Bose was a nutcase. Most RSS SM folks are nutcases themselves and so cant figure out about the Boses either.

Regards


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## Centaur

SoulSpokesman said:


> @Centaur
> 
> *They are calling gandhi as traitor and Satan and praising subhas Bose. You are degrading subhas Bose and sharat Bose. Actually who is right? I think neither.*
> 
> Actually both of us. The gandhooji and Sarat babu both were traitors the younger Bose was a nutcase. Most RSS SM folks are nutcases themselves and so cant figure out about the Boses either.
> 
> Regards


Wow, Thank you for educating me sir! But why you are degrading your leaders , specially gandhi? Never ever heard about such indian before who drgrading both ( Gandhi and netaji Subhash bose )
Can you explain me in short ?
@SoulSpokesman


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## SoulSpokesman

@Centaur

The litany of complaints against the gandhooji is very long, it would be a full encyclopedia but in short almost everyone in this subcontinent has a right to be aggrieved with him. (Caste) Hindus, Dalits, Muslims he screwed them all. He is the true father of the Taliban.

As far as netaji was concerned, he wasnt evil just plain batty.

Regards

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## Baby Leone

UKBengali said:


> PS - Even though Hasina is taking the Pakistan bashing a bit too far, *BD is doing far far better economically than Pakistan ever can dream of.* So this nonsense that BD needs to forget 1971 is just that, nonsense.



can you pls elaborate this fart of your further?

what is the per capita wealth of both countries?
how much is Middle and upper class population of both? Pak 84 Million / Ban hardly 32 million.
what is avg house hold income? Pakistan 650 USD/ Bang 600 USD
Pakistan has the fastest growing retail Market what do you think why is this?

actually it is totally the opposite of what you say. Pakistan has achieved so much with retarded neighbors in both east and west and with wars. which Bangladesh can only dream off. shame on you for spreading so much lies.
now dont say West Pakistan monster took or taking all of your wealth even after 71 let aside before 71


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Kami leone said:


> can you pls elaborate this fart of your further?
> 
> what is the per capita wealth of both countries?
> how much is Middle and upper class population of both? Pak 84 Million / Ban hardly 32 million.
> what is avg house hold income? Pakistan 650 USD/ Bang 600 USD
> Pakistan has the fastest growing retail Market what do you think why is this?
> 
> actually it is totally the opposite of what you say. Pakistan has achieved so much with retarded neighbors in both east and west and with wars. which Bangladesh can only dream off. shame on you for spreading so much lies.
> now dont say West Pakistan monster took or taking all of your even after 71 let aside before 71






Must be getting his facts from the same bangladeshi/indian source which has been vehemently claiming for nearly 50 years that 45,000 Pakistani troops killed 3 million bangladeshis in a few weeks in 1971. This lie has now been completely exposed, debunked and destroyed.


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## Baby Leone

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Must be getting his facts from the same bangladeshi/indian source which has been vehemently claiming for nearly 50 years that 45,000 Pakistani troops killed 3 million bangladeshis in a few weeks in 1971. This lie has now been completely exposed, debunked and destroyed.




seems like some Bangladeshis are learning from indians how to be a big mouth on Internet

i mean look at his comments its laughable

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## Reichsmarschall

we did nothing wrong in 71 Bongs were asking for Searchlight now many decades later they need another Searchlight


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## BDforever

Jon-Snow said:


> we did nothing wrong in 71 Bongs were asking for Searchlight now many decades later they need another Searchlight


and then next what happened remember right ? fear of mukti bahini, ran to Indian custody to save yourself but problem is this time India will just watch

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## Centaur

@*chetona force*, not only *razakar* *sharmila Bose* but also *razakar* *nirmal Sen*. 
Read the link, here Keshab Mukhapadhay taking interview of ahmad sharif
Keshab: How can you say without any endeavour? Thirty lacks people gave blood�����.

Sharif: lies, it is not thirty lacks, not even two and half lacks, three hundred thousand that is what Mohaiman wrote. Nirmal Sen says that the total number killed was about two and half lacks and among them, about one lacks are Bengali and one and half lacks are Bihari and Pakistani. They kept the truth hidden for getting political advantages. END Of Interview 

-------- ------------ ---------------- ----------------- ----------------
Aum chetona e Namaha. ( hail to 71 cult)


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## UKBengali

Kami leone said:


> can you pls elaborate this fart of your further?
> 
> what is the per capita wealth of both countries?
> how much is Middle and upper class population of both? Pak 84 Million / Ban hardly 32 million.
> what is avg house hold income? Pakistan 650 USD/ Bang 600 USD
> Pakistan has the fastest growing retail Market what do you think why is this?
> 
> actually it is totally the opposite of what you say. Pakistan has achieved so much with retarded neighbors in both east and west and with wars. which Bangladesh can only dream off. shame on you for spreading so much lies.
> now dont say West Pakistan monster took or taking all of your wealth even after 71 let aside before 71



BD GDP capita is growing at 6% while Pakistan's is at 3%. Pakistan in it's whole history has never grown at this rate sustained.



BDforever said:


> and then next what happened remember right ? fear of mukti bahini, ran to Indian custody to save yourself but problem is this time India will just watch



Brilliant come back.

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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> Brilliant come back.



thanks

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## Baby Leone

UKBengali said:


> *BD GDP capita is growing at 6% while Pakistan's is at 3%. Pakistan in it's whole history has never grown at this rate sustained*.
> 
> 
> 
> Brilliant come back.


lol this is the only thing left for Banglalis to cheer about now a days.....I still want answer of what Banglis had achieved which Pakistanis can only dream off as mentioned by some Bengali above

BTW what the Oil consumption of Bangladesh
whats per capita car
Electricity consumption all these thing way below Pakistan i even doubt about the GDP growth figures........as all these consumption shows the growth which are way below.


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## UKBengali

Kami leone said:


> lol this is the only thing left for Banglalis to cheer about now a days.....I still want answer of what Banglis had achieved which Pakistanis can only dream off as mentioned by some Bengali above
> 
> BTW what the Oil consumption of Bangladesh
> whats per capita car
> Electricity consumption all these thing way below Pakistan i even doubt about the GDP growth figures........as all these consumption shows the growth which are way below.



Heard about something called accumulated wealth?
Research this and come back to talk.

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## Baby Leone

UKBengali said:


> Heard about something called accumulated wealth?
> Research this and come back to talk.


lol first you guys need to learn the effects of GDP growth on your consumption pattern which is clearly missing in Bagla case, lol your hasina can fart about 10% gdp which seems meaningless considering your country is still low in consumption.....lols at Pakistan can only dream off yet no Bangali can answer on this


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## UKBengali

Kami leone said:


> lol first you guys need to learn the effects of GDP growth on your consumption pattern which is clearly missing in Bagla case, lol your hasina can fart about 10% gdp which seems meaningless considering your country is still low in consumption.....lols at Pakistan can only dream off yet no Bangali can answer on this



Hasina can fool IMF, Word Bank etc but not you!
Take your butt-hurt elsewhere.

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## PDF

The same anchor also says this:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/941336562092138501 lets hear the story of both sides, shall we not?


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

M.Musa said:


> The same anchor also says this:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/941336562092138501 lets hear the story of both sides, shall we not?






We need to expose the lies against the PA in the 1971 war.

According to bangladeshi/indian logic, 45,000 Pakistani troops killed 3 million bengalis and raped 10 million bengali women at the same time, in a few weeks in 1971. 28 years earlier, the Nazi military superpower with nearly 5 million soldiers could not manage to kill 3 million Jews in 4 years. That too when they were producing the most powerful and high-tech weapons systems at the time and were backed by additional soldiers from Italy, Austria, Romania and some Ukrainians.

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## BDforever

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> We need to expose the lies against the PA in the 1971 war.
> 
> According to bangladeshi/indian logic, 45,000 Pakistani troops killed 3 million bengalis and raped 10 million bengali women at the same time, in a few weeks in 1971. 28 years earlier, the Nazi military superpower with nearly 5 million soldiers could not manage to kill 3 million Jews in 4 years. That too when they were producing the most powerful and high-tech weapons systems at the time and were backed by additional soldiers from Italy, Austria, Romania and some Ukrainians.

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## Baby Leone

UKBengali said:


> Hasina can fool IMF, Word Bank etc but not you!
> Take your butt-hurt elsewhere.


lol at butt hurt for what? for Bangali achievement which Pakistan or any decent country in the world can only dream off as mentioned

still no one could answer or name those achievements


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## Al-zakir

M.Musa said:


> The same anchor also says this:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/941336562092138501 lets hear the story of both sides, shall we not?



Death figures definitely exaggerated and Bd politicians knows it. This is the reason why Bd government is not agreeing to form a joint commission led by UN to find out the actual number. 

Bd politicians mostly Awami league rather use this false number to justify the breaking up of United pakistan. 

Pakistan should demand a resolution from UN and clear it name once for all.



UKBengali said:


> BD GDP capita is growing at 6% while Pakistan's is at 3%. Pakistan in it's whole history has never grown at this rate sustaine



You seem to be drawing a rosy picture of Bd’s economy. It looks good in paper but reality is bitter. 

When is last time you visited Bd? 

Couple years ago I visited Bd. I was harassed by fakeers from airpor to my home in sylhet. Every time I went to market 20 fakeers surrounded for few bucks. They somehow recognized us. Sylhet supposed to be richer than other part of Bd. I would imagine other parts being in worst shape. 

I will believe you when Bd people become classier than Pakistani. Meaning, dress better, eat better and socialize better. Currently we sucked in these departments.

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## 24 Hours

Al-zakir said:


> You seem to be drawing a rosy picture of Bd’s economy. It looks good in paper but reality is bitter.
> 
> When is last time you visited Bd?
> 
> Couple years ago I visited Bd. I was harassed by fakeers from airpor to my home in sylhet. Every time I went to market 20 fakeers surrounded for few bucks. They somehow recognized us. *Sylhet supposed to be richer than other part of Bd.* I would imagine other parts being in worst shape.






Al-zakir said:


> I will believe you when Bd people become classier than Pakistani. Meaning, dress better, eat better and socialize better. Currently we sucked in these departments.


And when was the last time you visited Pakistan?

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## Homo Sapiens

Al-zakir said:


> Couple years ago I visited Bd. I was harassed by fakeers from airpor to my home in sylhet. Every time I went to market 20 fakeers surrounded for few bucks. They somehow recognized us. Sylhet supposed to be richer than other part of Bd. I would imagine other parts being in worst shape.


Begging has reduced drastically in Bangladesh in the last 10 years. We can feel it. Begging now mostly taking places in Railway stations, foot over bridges and Mazars. Door-to door begging was the biggest part and it has reduced greatly.Perhaps you gone to Shahjalal's dargah, which boast the biggest beggar concentration in Bangladesh.They sensed you as an 'Londoni' so you faced that incidence.I have seen many times those beggars from the Shahjalal's Dargah eating expensive dishes in hotels adjoining Dargah. Which indicate their good income.


Al-zakir said:


> I will believe you when Bd people become classier than Pakistani. Meaning, dress better, eat better and socialize better. Currently we sucked in these departments.


Who told you Bangladeshi people are less classy? Eat, dress and socialize worse than Pakistani? Pakistan has more hunger, more malnutrition than BD. I don't find pakistani salwar kameez for men a classy dress in anyway. Many would also consider the same.Whether people are classier or not depends on a lot about the general literacy of the population.Our educational level and literacy is better than Pakistan. Internet penetration is more in BD. than how BD people are less classy? Please explain. Which metrics you are considering?

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## Shorisrip

I think Homo Sapien's signature of Abdul Hakim's poem, and probably one of the most relevant stanzas of Bengali literature today sums it up for me.

যে সবে বঙ্গেত জন্মি হিংসে বঙ্গবাণী। সে সব কাহার জন্ম নির্ণয় ন জানি॥ দেশী ভাষা বিদ্যা যার মনে ন জুয়ায়। নিজ দেশ তেয়াগী কেন বিদেশ ন যায়॥ মাতা পিতামহ ক্রমে বঙ্গেত বসতি। দেশী ভাষা উপদেশ মনে হিত অতি॥
– আব্দুল হাকিম(১৬২০-১৬৯০)

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## Centaur

Shorisrip said:


> one of the most relevant stanzas of Bengali literature today sums it up for me.


Actually in what senses can you please explain? Who is hating Bengali language here? I hope you are not equating Bengali language with Bengali population?
@Shorisrip


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## bluesky

Ashes said:


> And when was the last time you visited Pakistan?



Forget about visiting Pakistan to know their living standard is much higher than BD. I visited Karachi a few decades ago, and I can attest that the level there at that time was much higher than the present level of Dhaka. Karachi has certainly more developed since I visited. Dhaka has not even built an efficient bus transit system!!

@Al-zakir is right in his statement. We better do not flatter ourselves with the GDP figures when even the minimum infrastructure is not yet built. Even the Dhaka-Chittagong highway remains inefficient after its rebuilding and expansion. However, I agree that the GoB is working vigorously on the physical infrastructures and in the next ten years the picture will change.

When BD status is LDC, the status of Pakistan is that of developing country. BD is only now in the preparation stage for promoting itself to a developing one.

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## Arthur

12:00 AM, March 26, 2015 / LAST MODIFIED: 01:41 PM, March 26, 2015
* INDEPENDENCE DAY SPECIAL 2015 *
* Killing of the best Bengali pilots of PIA *
*Lt. Col. (Retd.) Quazi Sajjad Ali Zahir Bir Protik*






Illustration: Ahmed Nazir, Memory Of 71,

PIA - Pakistan International Airlines was the government owned airline of Pakistan. Pakistanis used to put a lot of hindrance to the Bengalis who wanted to join PIA. But the negative attitude of the Pakistanis used to discourage them from joining PIA. Only a small percentage of Bengalis had the opportunity of joining the airlines, especially as a pilot. The appointments which were unimportant in nature and where West Pakistanis did not like to serve used to be allocated to the Bengalis. The Bengali pilots were kept under strict surveillance so that they could not organise themselves. They were also not posted in any sensitive appointments.

The Bengali pilots tried for many years to raise their demand against the discrimination through PIA Pilots Association. But as they were few in numbers and did not hold effective positions in the association, their demands were not accepted. Having no other alternative, the Bengali pilots decided to form their own association but kept it clandestine at the beginning. In early February 1971, Shahkur Ullah Durrani, the Managing Director of PIA came for a visit to Dhaka. A few Bengali pilots from the association met Durrani in Hotel Intercontinental where he was staying and discussed with him about the problems they were facing. Durrani listened to their grievances and advised them to submit their points in writing which was done immediately. No action was taken on the points after submission. But Durrani was able to identify the persons who were raising their voices for their demands which he was known to have passed on to the military authorities. Durrani, in his youth, served in the Pakistan Army for three years as an officer and maintained regular liaison with the defence forces. As such, he passed on the detailed information on the activities of the Bengali pilots especially about the association members which had helped the army to apprehend and eliminate the Bengali pilots and officials of PIA at a later date.

The Bengali pilots formed an association namely East Pakistan Airlines Pilot Association (EPALPA). The first few meetings were secretly held in the house of Captain Alamgir at 9/6 Iqbal Road, Block A, Mohammadpur, Dacca. But this was noticed by the intelligence agency of Pakistan namely ISI. Intelligence officials were seen watching the house when the meetings were held.

Steps were taken for immediate registration of EPALPA for giving it a legal coverage. A committee of 10 members were formed which included Captain W.R. Chowdhury, Captain Abdul Khaleque, Captain A T M Alamgir, Captain Alamgir Sattar, Captain Zahir, Captain Rafi, Captain Abu Salem, Captain Monowar, Captain Khondkar, Captain Shahabuddin Ahmed, Captain Zaman. The committee enjoyed the overwhelming support of all the Bengali pilots. Captain W.R. Chowdhury was elected as Chairman and Captain Alamgir as the General Secretary of EPALPA. The newly formed committee started functioning from a room in Awlad Hussain Market at Old Airport Road. A news bulletin namely Bihango Barta started being published which used to be edited by Captain Alamgir.

Captain Khaleque who was the Vice Chairman of the committee was posted to Karachi. In the first week of February 1971, he came from Karachi to Dacca and informed the committee that a build up of massive troops had started to be implemented and soldiers were being flown into Dacca Airport in civil dress in large numbers from Karachi. Also, troops were being flown into Dacca from Lahore and Rawalpindi by special PIA flights via China and Burma. He also informed that in his flight every passenger (other than him) appeared to be from the army. He even had to come sitting in the jump seat. Most of the flights were landing in Dacca in the dead of the night. He requested this information to be passed on to Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. Captain Sattar, who was assigned the task, went to Bangabandhu and briefed him about the activities related to the movement of troops. The arrival of troops started to be monitored by the EPALPA members and in the first week of March, Captain Shahab and Captain Sattar went to Bangabandhu's house and informed him on the details of the latest movement of troops. From 1 March, restriction was in place for all Bengali pilots and staff of PIA from entering the airport without specific clearance from the airport management. The routine activities in the airport were being conducted by West Pakistani and East Pakistani non-Bengali officers and staff. Protesting this order, EPALPA decided that no Bengali pilots will fly any aircraft. Few West Pakistani pilots were brought in but they failed to meet the flight schedule. In the backdrop of the situation, Bangabandhu delivered the historic 7 March speech to the nation. The association started making plan to resist the Pakistan army as per directive of Bangabandhu. EPALPA officials prepared a plan consisting of 44 pages for forming a new airline which was submitted to Bangabandhu on 22 March 1971. The Association planned to take away a few small aircrafts and keep them in abandoned runways in hiding so that they may be used by the resistance forces in near future.

On 25 March afternoon, around 4.30 p.m., some of the pilots saw Yahya Khan leaving Dacca Airport secretly. They informed all concerned about it. On the night of March 25, the Pakistan Army started Operation Search Light and simultaneously started raiding the houses of all important Bengalis including Bengali pilots. They were able to arrest Captain Sikander and immediately killed him. Later, from various locations in the city they were able to arrest Captain Amirul Islam, Captain Alamgir, Captain N S Haider and Deputy Managing Director (DMD) of PIA Fazlul Haq Chowdhury. These four pilots were most qualified instructor pilots out of total five Bengali instructor pilots. Only one instructor pilot Captain Nazrul, who was in his village, could save his life. Other than the pilots and DMD, 23 other Bengali officers and staff of PIA were killed by Pakistan Army. Among the members of EPALPA, Captain Khaleque joined the Liberation War and was awarded Bir Protik, Captain Alamgir Sattar awarded Bir Protik and Captain Sahab Bir Uttam.

The Pakistanis had made a detailed plan to kill the best and most talented Bengalis who could provide leadership to a new independent nation. These officials were arrested and no information reached their families who faced incomprehensive sufferings waiting for their dear ones to return which never happened. Pakistan Army killed the Bengali DMD and four best instructor pilots so that they could not train any more Bengali pilots. The savages and blood thirsty elements of Pakistan Army took away the defenceless captives and eliminated them. Their mortal remains were never found although much effort has been made by this writer of this article for many years, including the effort by conducting digging in the most likely places but in vain. These great sons of the soil never could see the wind of freedom and their souls till today could not feel the wind of justice.
...................................................................
The writer is a Freedom Fighter, recipient of Swadhinata Padak and researcher on the Liberation War.

https://goo.gl/KQz6Z3
-----------------------------------------------
বাংলাদেশ সংবাদ
*মুক্তিযুদ্ধের মুহূর্ত*
*পিআইএর বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের হত্যা*
সোহরাব হাসান, ঢাকা
০১ মার্চ ২০১৮, ১৪:৪৩
আপডেট: ০১ মার্চ ২০১৮, ১৫:০০
প্রিন্ট সংস্করণ

শুরু হলো স্বাধীনতার মাস মার্চ। ১৯৭১ সালে নয় মাসের মুক্তিযুদ্ধ জন্ম দিয়েছে অজস্র মর্মস্পর্শী মানবিক গল্পের। সেগুলো ছড়িয়ে আছে নানান দলিলে, অনেকের ভাষ্যে।





ধ্বংসপ্রাপ্ত পিআইএর একটি উড়োজাহাজ, ১৯৭১ সালের ডিসেম্বরের। ছবি: সংগৃহীতবাঙালি নেতা হোসেন শহীদ সোহরাওয়ার্দী একবার বলেছিলেন, পিআইএ (পাকিস্তান ইন্টারন্যাশনাল এয়ারলাইনস) এবং তিনিই দুই পাকিস্তানের মধ্যে একমাত্র যোগসূত্র। আর দুটো যোগসূত্রই পাকিস্তানিরা কেটে দিয়েছিল। ১৯৬৩ সালে সোহরাওয়ার্দী বৈরুতে রহস্যজনকভাবে মারা যান। অনেকের অভিযোগ, তাঁর মৃত্যুর পেছনে পাকিস্তানিদের ষড়যন্ত্র ছিল।

১৯৭১ সালে পিআইএর বাঙালি বৈমানিক ছিলেন ক্যাপ্টেন আলমগীর সাত্তার। তাঁর সঙ্গে কথা বলে জানা যায়, পাকিস্তানের এই রাষ্ট্রীয় বিমান সংস্থায় বাঙালি বৈমানিকের সংখ্যা ছিল খুবই কম। যে কজন ছিলেন, তাঁদেরও পাকিস্তান সরকার কঠোর নজরদারিতে রাখত। পাকিস্তান এয়ারলাইনস পাইলট অ্যাসোসিয়েশন (পিএএলপিএ) নামে বৈমানিকদের যে সংগঠনটি ছিল, তারও নেতৃত্বে ছিলেন পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানিরা। বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের ন্যায্য দাবি পেশ করলেও তা আমলে নেওয়া হতো না। বাধ্য হয়ে বাঙালি বৈমানিকেরা পৃথক সংগঠন করেন।

মুক্তিযোদ্ধা ও মুক্তিযুদ্ধবিষয়ক গবেষক লে. কর্নেল (অব.) কাজী সাজ্জাদ আলী জহির বীর প্রতীক এই সাহসী বৈমানিকদের কাহিনি তুলে ধরেছেন মেজর জেনারেল আয়ান কারডোজোসম্পাদিত ইন কোয়েস্ট অব ফ্রিডম: দ্য ওয়ার অব ১৯৭১ বইতে।

কাজী সাজ্জাদের ভাষ্য অনুযায়ী, ‘১৯৭১ সালের ফেব্রুয়ারির শুরুতে পিআইএর ব্যবস্থাপনা পরিচালক শাকুর উল্লাহ দুররানি ঢাকায় এলে সমিতির কয়েকজন তাঁর সঙ্গে দেখা করেন এবং নিজেদের সমস্যার কথা বলেন। তিনি তাঁদের দাবিদাওয়া লিখিতভাবে দিতে বললে বৈমানিকেরা দ্রুত সেটি দিয়ে দেন।’

সাজ্জাদ আলী জহির আরও লিখেছেন, ‘দুররানি কোনো প্রতিকার না করে বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের তৎপরতার কথা পাকিস্তান সেনা কর্তৃপক্ষকে জানিয়ে দেন।…পরবর্তীকালে সেনাবাহিনী এই লিখিত দলিলকে বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের বিরুদ্ধে কাজে লাগায়।’

পূর্ব পাকিস্তান এয়ারলাইনস বৈমানিক সমিতির (ইপিএএলপিএ) সভাপতি ও সাধারণ সম্পাদক হয়েছিলেন যথাক্রমে ডব্লিউ আর চৌধুরী ও ক্যাপ্টেন আলমগীর। আওলাদ হোসেন মার্কেটে সমিতির অফিস নেওয়া হয়েছিল। ওই বইয়ের ভাষ্য অনুযায়ী, সমিতির প্রথম কয়েকটি বৈঠক হয় ক্যাপ্টেন আলমগীরের মোহাম্মদপুরের বাসায়। পাকিস্তানি গোয়েন্দা সংস্থা আইএসআইয়ের কাছে খবর পৌঁছে যায় এবং তারা বাড়িটি নজরদারিতে রাখে।

সমিতির সহসভাপতি ক্যাপ্টেন আবদুল খালেক ফেব্রুয়ারির প্রথম সপ্তাহে করাচি থেকে ঢাকায় ফিরে জানান, বিপুলসংখ্যক পাকিস্তানি সেনা সাদাপোশাকে ঢাকায় এসেছেন। এ ছাড়া লাহোর ও রাওয়ালপিন্ডি থেকেও পিআইএর বিশেষ বিমানে সেনাদের আনা হয়েছে। ১ মার্চ ক্যাপ্টেন শাহাব ও আলমগীর সাত্তার বঙ্গবন্ধুর সঙ্গে দেখা করে তাঁকে পাকিস্তানি সেনাদের আনার বিষয়টি জানান।

মুক্তিযুদ্ধের ডেপুটি চিফ অব স্টাফ এয়ার মার্শাল (অব.) এ কে খন্দকার সে সময়ের অভিজ্ঞতা বর্ণনা করে লিখেছেন, ‘ইতিমধ্যে তারা গোপনে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে সৈন্য আনা শুরু করে। ...সম্ভবত ১৮ ফেব্রুয়ারি বেলা সাড়ে তিনটার দিকে বিমানবন্দরে একটি এয়ারক্রাফট অবতরণ করে। বিমানটি নামার পর দেখলাম সিভিলিয়ান পোশাকে সেনাবাহিনীর জওয়ানরা নামছে।’ (১৯৭১: ভেতরে বাইরে, প্রথমা ২০১৪)

১ মার্চ পাকিস্তান সরকার ফরমান জারি করে, কর্তৃপক্ষের অনুমতি ছাড়া পিআইএর বাঙালি বৈমানিক ও কর্মীরা বিমানবন্দরে যেতে পারবেন না। তখন বিমানবন্দরের সব কাজ পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানি বৈমানিক ও অবাঙালি কর্মীদের দিয়ে করানো হয়। বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের পিআইএর বিমান চালানো থেকেও বিরত রাখা হয়।

ক্যাপ্টেন আলমগীর সাত্তার জানান, বঙ্গবন্ধুর ৭ মার্চের ভাষণের পর অন্যান্য পেশাজীবীর মতো বাঙালি বৈমানিকেরাও চূড়ান্ত সিদ্ধান্ত নিয়ে ফেলেন: যেকোনো মূল্যে পাকিস্তানি সেনাদের আক্রমণ প্রতিরোধ করতে হবে। ২৩ মার্চ তাঁরা বঙ্গবন্ধুর কাছে নতুন বিমান পরিচালনার জন্য ৪৪ পৃষ্ঠার একটি পরিকল্পনা জমা দেন। একই সঙ্গে সিদ্ধান্ত নেন, পরিত্যক্ত কয়েকটি এফ-২৭ বিমান চালিয়ে তাঁরা অন্য কোথাও নিয়ে যাবেন, যাতে সেগুলো ভবিষ্যতে প্রতিরোধযুদ্ধে ব্যবহার করা যায়।

২৫ মার্চ রাতেই পাকিস্তান সেনাবাহিনী অন্যদের সঙ্গে বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের বাড়িঘরও তল্লাশি করে। তারা প্রথমে ক্যাপ্টেন সিকান্দরকে খুঁজে বের করে ও হত্যা করে। পরে সেনাবাহিনী শহরের বিভিন্ন স্থান থেকে ক্যাপ্টেন আমিরুল ইসলাম, ক্যাপ্টেন আলমগীর, ক্যাপ্টেন এন এস হায়দার ও পিআইএর উপব্যবস্থাপনা পরিচালক ফজলুল হককে গ্রেপ্তার করে নিয়ে যায়। আর তাঁদের হদিস পাওয়া যায়নি।

প্রথম আলোর সঙ্গে আলাপকালে গতকাল সাজ্জাদ আলী জহির জানান, তিনি পিআইএর পাকিস্তানি কর্মকর্তাদের সঙ্গে যোগাযোগ করে জানতে পেরেছেন, পাকিস্তানি সেনারা সেদিন বাসা থেকে যেসব বৈমানিককে ধরে নিয়ে গিয়েছিল, তাঁদের কয়েকজনকে পুরোনো বিমানবন্দরের কাছে একটি বাড়িতে রাখা হয় এবং ২৭ অথবা ২৮ মার্চ তাঁদের হত্যা করা হয়। এর বাইরেও পিআইএর ৩৩ জন বাঙালি কর্মচারীকে হত্যা করে পাকিস্তানি সেনারা।

বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের মধ্যে সাহাবুদ্দীন আহমেদ, আকরাম আহমেদ, শরফুদ্দিন, ক্যাপ্টেন খালেক, মুকিত ও আলমগীর সাত্তার মুক্তিযুদ্ধে অংশ নেন। তাঁদের প্রথম তিনজন বীর উত্তম ও শেষের তিনজন বীর প্রতীক খেতাব পান।

পাকিস্তানি সেনারা মুক্তিযুদ্ধের প্রথম প্রহরে পিআইএর যে কজন বাঙালি বৈমানিককে হত্যা করে, তাঁরা সবাই ছিলেন প্রশিক্ষক বৈমানিক, পিআইএর সেরা বৈমানিক।

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## 24 Hours

Khan saheb said:


> 12:00 AM, March 26, 2015 / LAST MODIFIED: 01:41 PM, March 26, 2015
> * INDEPENDENCE DAY SPECIAL 2015 *
> * Killing of the best Bengali pilots of PIA *
> *Lt. Col. (Retd.) Quazi Sajjad Ali Zahir Bir Protik*
> 
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> Illustration: Ahmed Nazir, Memory Of 71,
> 
> PIA - Pakistan International Airlines was the government owned airline of Pakistan. Pakistanis used to put a lot of hindrance to the Bengalis who wanted to join PIA. But the negative attitude of the Pakistanis used to discourage them from joining PIA. Only a small percentage of Bengalis had the opportunity of joining the airlines, especially as a pilot. The appointments which were unimportant in nature and where West Pakistanis did not like to serve used to be allocated to the Bengalis. The Bengali pilots were kept under strict surveillance so that they could not organise themselves. They were also not posted in any sensitive appointments.
> 
> The Bengali pilots tried for many years to raise their demand against the discrimination through PIA Pilots Association. But as they were few in numbers and did not hold effective positions in the association, their demands were not accepted. Having no other alternative, the Bengali pilots decided to form their own association but kept it clandestine at the beginning. In early February 1971, Shahkur Ullah Durrani, the Managing Director of PIA came for a visit to Dhaka. A few Bengali pilots from the association met Durrani in Hotel Intercontinental where he was staying and discussed with him about the problems they were facing. Durrani listened to their grievances and advised them to submit their points in writing which was done immediately. No action was taken on the points after submission. But Durrani was able to identify the persons who were raising their voices for their demands which he was known to have passed on to the military authorities. Durrani, in his youth, served in the Pakistan Army for three years as an officer and maintained regular liaison with the defence forces. As such, he passed on the detailed information on the activities of the Bengali pilots especially about the association members which had helped the army to apprehend and eliminate the Bengali pilots and officials of PIA at a later date.
> 
> The Bengali pilots formed an association namely East Pakistan Airlines Pilot Association (EPALPA). The first few meetings were secretly held in the house of Captain Alamgir at 9/6 Iqbal Road, Block A, Mohammadpur, Dacca. But this was noticed by the intelligence agency of Pakistan namely ISI. Intelligence officials were seen watching the house when the meetings were held.
> 
> Steps were taken for immediate registration of EPALPA for giving it a legal coverage. A committee of 10 members were formed which included Captain W.R. Chowdhury, Captain Abdul Khaleque, Captain A T M Alamgir, Captain Alamgir Sattar, Captain Zahir, Captain Rafi, Captain Abu Salem, Captain Monowar, Captain Khondkar, Captain Shahabuddin Ahmed, Captain Zaman. The committee enjoyed the overwhelming support of all the Bengali pilots. Captain W.R. Chowdhury was elected as Chairman and Captain Alamgir as the General Secretary of EPALPA. The newly formed committee started functioning from a room in Awlad Hussain Market at Old Airport Road. A news bulletin namely Bihango Barta started being published which used to be edited by Captain Alamgir.
> 
> Captain Khaleque who was the Vice Chairman of the committee was posted to Karachi. In the first week of February 1971, he came from Karachi to Dacca and informed the committee that a build up of massive troops had started to be implemented and soldiers were being flown into Dacca Airport in civil dress in large numbers from Karachi. Also, troops were being flown into Dacca from Lahore and Rawalpindi by special PIA flights via China and Burma. He also informed that in his flight every passenger (other than him) appeared to be from the army. He even had to come sitting in the jump seat. Most of the flights were landing in Dacca in the dead of the night. He requested this information to be passed on to Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. Captain Sattar, who was assigned the task, went to Bangabandhu and briefed him about the activities related to the movement of troops. The arrival of troops started to be monitored by the EPALPA members and in the first week of March, Captain Shahab and Captain Sattar went to Bangabandhu's house and informed him on the details of the latest movement of troops. From 1 March, restriction was in place for all Bengali pilots and staff of PIA from entering the airport without specific clearance from the airport management. The routine activities in the airport were being conducted by West Pakistani and East Pakistani non-Bengali officers and staff. Protesting this order, EPALPA decided that no Bengali pilots will fly any aircraft. Few West Pakistani pilots were brought in but they failed to meet the flight schedule. In the backdrop of the situation, Bangabandhu delivered the historic 7 March speech to the nation. The association started making plan to resist the Pakistan army as per directive of Bangabandhu. EPALPA officials prepared a plan consisting of 44 pages for forming a new airline which was submitted to Bangabandhu on 22 March 1971. The Association planned to take away a few small aircrafts and keep them in abandoned runways in hiding so that they may be used by the resistance forces in near future.
> 
> On 25 March afternoon, around 4.30 p.m., some of the pilots saw Yahya Khan leaving Dacca Airport secretly. They informed all concerned about it. On the night of March 25, the Pakistan Army started Operation Search Light and simultaneously started raiding the houses of all important Bengalis including Bengali pilots. They were able to arrest Captain Sikander and immediately killed him. Later, from various locations in the city they were able to arrest Captain Amirul Islam, Captain Alamgir, Captain N S Haider and Deputy Managing Director (DMD) of PIA Fazlul Haq Chowdhury. These four pilots were most qualified instructor pilots out of total five Bengali instructor pilots. Only one instructor pilot Captain Nazrul, who was in his village, could save his life. Other than the pilots and DMD, 23 other Bengali officers and staff of PIA were killed by Pakistan Army. Among the members of EPALPA, Captain Khaleque joined the Liberation War and was awarded Bir Protik, Captain Alamgir Sattar awarded Bir Protik and Captain Sahab Bir Uttam.
> 
> The Pakistanis had made a detailed plan to kill the best and most talented Bengalis who could provide leadership to a new independent nation. These officials were arrested and no information reached their families who faced incomprehensive sufferings waiting for their dear ones to return which never happened. Pakistan Army killed the Bengali DMD and four best instructor pilots so that they could not train any more Bengali pilots. The savages and blood thirsty elements of Pakistan Army took away the defenceless captives and eliminated them. Their mortal remains were never found although much effort has been made by this writer of this article for many years, including the effort by conducting digging in the most likely places but in vain. These great sons of the soil never could see the wind of freedom and their souls till today could not feel the wind of justice.
> ...................................................................
> The writer is a Freedom Fighter, recipient of Swadhinata Padak and researcher on the Liberation War.
> 
> https://goo.gl/KQz6Z3
> -----------------------------------------------
> বাংলাদেশ সংবাদ
> *মুক্তিযুদ্ধের মুহূর্ত*
> *পিআইএর বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের হত্যা*
> সোহরাব হাসান, ঢাকা
> ০১ মার্চ ২০১৮, ১৪:৪৩
> আপডেট: ০১ মার্চ ২০১৮, ১৫:০০
> প্রিন্ট সংস্করণ
> 
> শুরু হলো স্বাধীনতার মাস মার্চ। ১৯৭১ সালে নয় মাসের মুক্তিযুদ্ধ জন্ম দিয়েছে অজস্র মর্মস্পর্শী মানবিক গল্পের। সেগুলো ছড়িয়ে আছে নানান দলিলে, অনেকের ভাষ্যে।
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ধ্বংসপ্রাপ্ত পিআইএর একটি উড়োজাহাজ, ১৯৭১ সালের ডিসেম্বরের। ছবি: সংগৃহীতবাঙালি নেতা হোসেন শহীদ সোহরাওয়ার্দী একবার বলেছিলেন, পিআইএ (পাকিস্তান ইন্টারন্যাশনাল এয়ারলাইনস) এবং তিনিই দুই পাকিস্তানের মধ্যে একমাত্র যোগসূত্র। আর দুটো যোগসূত্রই পাকিস্তানিরা কেটে দিয়েছিল। ১৯৬৩ সালে সোহরাওয়ার্দী বৈরুতে রহস্যজনকভাবে মারা যান। অনেকের অভিযোগ, তাঁর মৃত্যুর পেছনে পাকিস্তানিদের ষড়যন্ত্র ছিল।
> 
> ১৯৭১ সালে পিআইএর বাঙালি বৈমানিক ছিলেন ক্যাপ্টেন আলমগীর সাত্তার। তাঁর সঙ্গে কথা বলে জানা যায়, পাকিস্তানের এই রাষ্ট্রীয় বিমান সংস্থায় বাঙালি বৈমানিকের সংখ্যা ছিল খুবই কম। যে কজন ছিলেন, তাঁদেরও পাকিস্তান সরকার কঠোর নজরদারিতে রাখত। পাকিস্তান এয়ারলাইনস পাইলট অ্যাসোসিয়েশন (পিএএলপিএ) নামে বৈমানিকদের যে সংগঠনটি ছিল, তারও নেতৃত্বে ছিলেন পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানিরা। বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের ন্যায্য দাবি পেশ করলেও তা আমলে নেওয়া হতো না। বাধ্য হয়ে বাঙালি বৈমানিকেরা পৃথক সংগঠন করেন।
> 
> মুক্তিযোদ্ধা ও মুক্তিযুদ্ধবিষয়ক গবেষক লে. কর্নেল (অব.) কাজী সাজ্জাদ আলী জহির বীর প্রতীক এই সাহসী বৈমানিকদের কাহিনি তুলে ধরেছেন মেজর জেনারেল আয়ান কারডোজোসম্পাদিত ইন কোয়েস্ট অব ফ্রিডম: দ্য ওয়ার অব ১৯৭১ বইতে।
> 
> কাজী সাজ্জাদের ভাষ্য অনুযায়ী, ‘১৯৭১ সালের ফেব্রুয়ারির শুরুতে পিআইএর ব্যবস্থাপনা পরিচালক শাকুর উল্লাহ দুররানি ঢাকায় এলে সমিতির কয়েকজন তাঁর সঙ্গে দেখা করেন এবং নিজেদের সমস্যার কথা বলেন। তিনি তাঁদের দাবিদাওয়া লিখিতভাবে দিতে বললে বৈমানিকেরা দ্রুত সেটি দিয়ে দেন।’
> 
> সাজ্জাদ আলী জহির আরও লিখেছেন, ‘দুররানি কোনো প্রতিকার না করে বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের তৎপরতার কথা পাকিস্তান সেনা কর্তৃপক্ষকে জানিয়ে দেন।…পরবর্তীকালে সেনাবাহিনী এই লিখিত দলিলকে বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের বিরুদ্ধে কাজে লাগায়।’
> 
> পূর্ব পাকিস্তান এয়ারলাইনস বৈমানিক সমিতির (ইপিএএলপিএ) সভাপতি ও সাধারণ সম্পাদক হয়েছিলেন যথাক্রমে ডব্লিউ আর চৌধুরী ও ক্যাপ্টেন আলমগীর। আওলাদ হোসেন মার্কেটে সমিতির অফিস নেওয়া হয়েছিল। ওই বইয়ের ভাষ্য অনুযায়ী, সমিতির প্রথম কয়েকটি বৈঠক হয় ক্যাপ্টেন আলমগীরের মোহাম্মদপুরের বাসায়। পাকিস্তানি গোয়েন্দা সংস্থা আইএসআইয়ের কাছে খবর পৌঁছে যায় এবং তারা বাড়িটি নজরদারিতে রাখে।
> 
> সমিতির সহসভাপতি ক্যাপ্টেন আবদুল খালেক ফেব্রুয়ারির প্রথম সপ্তাহে করাচি থেকে ঢাকায় ফিরে জানান, বিপুলসংখ্যক পাকিস্তানি সেনা সাদাপোশাকে ঢাকায় এসেছেন। এ ছাড়া লাহোর ও রাওয়ালপিন্ডি থেকেও পিআইএর বিশেষ বিমানে সেনাদের আনা হয়েছে। ১ মার্চ ক্যাপ্টেন শাহাব ও আলমগীর সাত্তার বঙ্গবন্ধুর সঙ্গে দেখা করে তাঁকে পাকিস্তানি সেনাদের আনার বিষয়টি জানান।
> 
> মুক্তিযুদ্ধের ডেপুটি চিফ অব স্টাফ এয়ার মার্শাল (অব.) এ কে খন্দকার সে সময়ের অভিজ্ঞতা বর্ণনা করে লিখেছেন, ‘ইতিমধ্যে তারা গোপনে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে সৈন্য আনা শুরু করে। ...সম্ভবত ১৮ ফেব্রুয়ারি বেলা সাড়ে তিনটার দিকে বিমানবন্দরে একটি এয়ারক্রাফট অবতরণ করে। বিমানটি নামার পর দেখলাম সিভিলিয়ান পোশাকে সেনাবাহিনীর জওয়ানরা নামছে।’ (১৯৭১: ভেতরে বাইরে, প্রথমা ২০১৪)
> 
> ১ মার্চ পাকিস্তান সরকার ফরমান জারি করে, কর্তৃপক্ষের অনুমতি ছাড়া পিআইএর বাঙালি বৈমানিক ও কর্মীরা বিমানবন্দরে যেতে পারবেন না। তখন বিমানবন্দরের সব কাজ পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানি বৈমানিক ও অবাঙালি কর্মীদের দিয়ে করানো হয়। বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের পিআইএর বিমান চালানো থেকেও বিরত রাখা হয়।
> 
> ক্যাপ্টেন আলমগীর সাত্তার জানান, বঙ্গবন্ধুর ৭ মার্চের ভাষণের পর অন্যান্য পেশাজীবীর মতো বাঙালি বৈমানিকেরাও চূড়ান্ত সিদ্ধান্ত নিয়ে ফেলেন: যেকোনো মূল্যে পাকিস্তানি সেনাদের আক্রমণ প্রতিরোধ করতে হবে। ২৩ মার্চ তাঁরা বঙ্গবন্ধুর কাছে নতুন বিমান পরিচালনার জন্য ৪৪ পৃষ্ঠার একটি পরিকল্পনা জমা দেন। একই সঙ্গে সিদ্ধান্ত নেন, পরিত্যক্ত কয়েকটি এফ-২৭ বিমান চালিয়ে তাঁরা অন্য কোথাও নিয়ে যাবেন, যাতে সেগুলো ভবিষ্যতে প্রতিরোধযুদ্ধে ব্যবহার করা যায়।
> 
> ২৫ মার্চ রাতেই পাকিস্তান সেনাবাহিনী অন্যদের সঙ্গে বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের বাড়িঘরও তল্লাশি করে। তারা প্রথমে ক্যাপ্টেন সিকান্দরকে খুঁজে বের করে ও হত্যা করে। পরে সেনাবাহিনী শহরের বিভিন্ন স্থান থেকে ক্যাপ্টেন আমিরুল ইসলাম, ক্যাপ্টেন আলমগীর, ক্যাপ্টেন এন এস হায়দার ও পিআইএর উপব্যবস্থাপনা পরিচালক ফজলুল হককে গ্রেপ্তার করে নিয়ে যায়। আর তাঁদের হদিস পাওয়া যায়নি।
> 
> প্রথম আলোর সঙ্গে আলাপকালে গতকাল সাজ্জাদ আলী জহির জানান, তিনি পিআইএর পাকিস্তানি কর্মকর্তাদের সঙ্গে যোগাযোগ করে জানতে পেরেছেন, পাকিস্তানি সেনারা সেদিন বাসা থেকে যেসব বৈমানিককে ধরে নিয়ে গিয়েছিল, তাঁদের কয়েকজনকে পুরোনো বিমানবন্দরের কাছে একটি বাড়িতে রাখা হয় এবং ২৭ অথবা ২৮ মার্চ তাঁদের হত্যা করা হয়। এর বাইরেও পিআইএর ৩৩ জন বাঙালি কর্মচারীকে হত্যা করে পাকিস্তানি সেনারা।
> 
> বাঙালি বৈমানিকদের মধ্যে সাহাবুদ্দীন আহমেদ, আকরাম আহমেদ, শরফুদ্দিন, ক্যাপ্টেন খালেক, মুকিত ও আলমগীর সাত্তার মুক্তিযুদ্ধে অংশ নেন। তাঁদের প্রথম তিনজন বীর উত্তম ও শেষের তিনজন বীর প্রতীক খেতাব পান।
> 
> পাকিস্তানি সেনারা মুক্তিযুদ্ধের প্রথম প্রহরে পিআইএর যে কজন বাঙালি বৈমানিককে হত্যা করে, তাঁরা সবাই ছিলেন প্রশিক্ষক বৈমানিক, পিআইএর সেরা বৈমানিক।
> 
> https://goo.gl/hXG169


If only they lived. Our Air Force would be much better than the pitiful state it's in today.

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## EastBengalPro

*The first victim of Niazi's atrocities is the Bengali Major*

*



*
Major Abu Yusuf Mushtaq Ahmed

Yahya Khan could not be sure about the military operation in Bangladesh even after the massacre and destruction of March 25. He decided that a military officer would be sent to Bangladesh, who would be able to execute genocide efficiently than Tikka Khan.

On 2 April, Army Chief General Abdul Hamid summoned Major General Amir Abdullah Niazi to the head of the tenth rank of Pakistan Infantry Division. On April 3, Niazi met the army chief and was informed that Yahya Khan was not very satisfied with the way the operation was going on in East Pakistan. He decided that he would be sent to the Eastern Command (Niazi) by seeing him as the youngest in the age of previous records. When asked for Niazi's opinion, Gadgad said that every soldier's responsibility is to obey the orders of the senior authority. Then Niazi Le By promoting the rank of General, the responsibility of the command of East Pakistan was given. 

This information has emerged that in the beginning of 1971, another army officer, Khadim Hussain Rajar, _a stranger in my own country: East Pakistan in 1969-1971_ (Oxford University Publishers).

According to the king, Niazi came to Dhaka on 4th April. Although Tikka Khan was stunned, he handed over the charge to Niazi on 10 April. 

April 10 four in the afternoon. Niazi sat in a meeting with the senior army officers in the operation room of the Eastern Command in Dhaka Cantonment. Everyone was shocked to see him entering the room with a pistol around him. Rules of leaving the arms out of such a meeting Niazi told the officials, "In the future, officials will be able to carry a pistol anywhere in uniform wearing the uniform.

Then he surprised everyone by saying in Urdu that the people of this haraam jada should remember, who is he? At one stage, he told to change the face of the Bengali nation. This indication was indecent.

Most of the West Pakistani officials and some Bengali officials were also present in the meeting. One of them Major Abu Yusuf Mushtaq Ahmed He could not bear the nasty word of Niazi, saying to the general, "It is very objectionable to say such a thing and he has to withdraw it." Pinpoint silence in the room. Niazi went out of the angry mood without responding.

After a while, the steady and steadfast Major Mushtaq also left. After this incident, West Pakistani officials were whispering about his future. The next day Major Mushtaq was found dead in his cell in the officer's office.

There are two commentaries on this. Khadim Hussein Raja said in his book, Major Mushtaq committed suicide in anger, sadness, anger, and could not tolerate Nijazi's insulting speech about Bengalis. But freedom fighter-researcher Lieutenant Colonel (retd) Kazi Sajjad Ali Zahir wrote that, when Mushtaq came to sleep on the night, Niazi sent him to death and killed him. In this way, he replied to the 'arrogance' of the Bengali officer ( _In Quest of Freedom: The War of 1971_ , editor Major General Ayan Karadozo).

Kazi Sajjad also wrote, despite having a home in Dhaka, the Bengali Major Officer was in the mes. In the morning, some Pakistani soldiers brought a body of Mushtaq in his house covered with a white shroud and told the family that he had committed suicide in the bathroom. The family members were told to bury the body, there is no permission. Just brought here to show. He was buried under the supervision of the army at Banani Graveyard.

Mushtaq's family claimed that Mushtaq had no chance of carrying arms as a Bengali officer. Then how will he put his arms on the head and commit suicide? In the message he was in, there were officers of the 13 Frontier Regiment. It is believed that in the very early morning, some soldiers went to Mushtaq's room and cut him to the neck and killed him.

Pakistani officials Khadim Hussein Raja was surprised by Niazi's behavior. In the bilateral meeting, when he was talking about the terrible situation of the situation and talking about the matter, Niazi laughed and said, 'They will be seen later. You rather leave telephone numbers of your Bengali girl friends. '

Major Mushtaq was one of the senior Bengali officers. He was brilliant and brave. If he is killed, it is done by Niazi's direction. In that case, Major Mushtaq was the first victim of Niyaz's atrocity.


২৫ মার্চের গণহত্যা ও ধ্বংসযজ্ঞ চালানোর পরও ইয়াহিয়া খান বাংলাদেশে সামরিক অভিযান নিয়ে নিশ্চিত হতে পারছিলেন না। তিনি সিদ্ধান্ত নিলেন এমন একজন সেনা কর্মকর্তাকে বাংলাদেশে পাঠানো হবে, যিনি টিক্কা খানের চেয়েও দক্ষতার সঙ্গে গণহত্যা চালাতে পারবেন।

২ এপ্রিল সেনাপ্রধান জেনারেল আবদুল হামিদ দশম পাকিস্তান পদাতিক বিভাগের সদর দপ্তরে মেজর জেনারেল আমির আবদুল্লাহ নিয়াজিকে তলব করেন। ৩ এপ্রিল নিয়াজি সেনাপ্রধানের সঙ্গে দেখা করলে তাঁকে জানানো হয়, পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে যেভাবে অভিযান চলছে, তাতে ইয়াহিয়া খান পুরো সন্তুষ্ট নন। তিনি সিদ্ধান্ত নিয়েছেন, বয়সে কনিষ্ঠ হলেও অতীতের রেকর্ড দেখে তাঁকেই (নিয়াজি) ইস্টার্ন কমান্ডের দায়িত্ব দিয়ে পাঠানো হবে। এ ব্যাপারে নিয়াজির কাছে মতামত চাওয়া হলে তিনি গদগদ কণ্ঠে বলেন, প্রত্যেক সৈনিকেরই দায়িত্ব ঊর্ধ্বতন কর্তৃপক্ষের নির্দেশ পালন করা। এরপর নিয়াজিকে লে. জেনারেল পদে উন্নীত করে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের কমান্ডের দায়িত্ব দেওয়া হয়।

এসব তথ্য উঠে এসেছে একাত্তরের শুরুতে ঢাকায় দায়িত্ব পালনকারী আরেক সেনা কর্মকর্তা খাদিম হুসেন রাজার _আ স্ট্রেঞ্জার ইন মাই ওউন কান্ট্রি: ইস্ট পাকিস্তান ১৯৬৯-১৯৭১_ বইতে (অক্সফোর্ড ইউনিভার্সিটি পাবলিশার্স)।

রাজার ভাষ্যমতে, ৪ এপ্রিল নিয়াজি ঢাকায় এলেন। টিক্কা খান মনঃক্ষুণ্ন হলেও ১০ এপ্রিল নিয়াজির কাছে দায়িত্ব হস্তান্তর করেন।

১০ এপ্রিল বিকেল চারটা। নিয়াজি ঢাকা সেনানিবাসে ইস্টার্ন কমান্ডের অপারেশন কক্ষে জ্যেষ্ঠ সেনা কর্মকর্তাদের নিয়ে বৈঠকে বসেন। তাঁকে কোমরে পিস্তল নিয়ে কক্ষে ঢুকতে দেখে সবাই হতবাক হন। এ ধরনের বৈঠকে অস্ত্র বাইরে রেখে আসার নিয়ম। নিয়াজি কর্মকর্তাদের উদ্দেশে বলেন, ভবিষ্যতে কর্মকর্তারা ইউনিফর্ম পরা অবস্থায় যেকোনো স্থানে পিস্তল নিয়ে যেতে পারবেন।

এরপর সবাইকে অবাক করে দিয়ে তিনি উর্দুতে বলেন, এই হারামজাদা জাতির মনে রাখা উচিত, তিনি কে। একপর্যায়ে তিনি বাঙালি জাতির চেহারা বদলে দেওয়ার কথা বলেন। এই ইঙ্গিত ছিল অশালীন।

বৈঠকে অধিকাংশ পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানি কর্মকর্তার সঙ্গে কয়েকজন বাঙালি কর্মকর্তাও উপস্থিত ছিলেন। এঁদের একজন মেজর আবু ইউসুফ মুশতাক আহমেদ। তিনি নিয়াজির এই কদর্য কথা সহ্য করতে না পেরে জেনারেলের উদ্দেশে বলেন, এ ধরনের কথাবার্তা বলা খুবই আপত্তিকর এবং তাঁকে তা প্রত্যাহার করতে হবে। কক্ষে তখন পিনপতন নীরবতা। কোনো কথার জবাব না দিয়ে নিয়াজি ক্ষুব্ধ মেজাজে বেরিয়ে গেলেন।

কিছুক্ষণ পর ধীরস্থির ও অবিচল মেজর মুশতাকও বেরিয়ে যান। এ ঘটনার পর পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানি কর্মকর্তারা তাঁর ভবিষ্যৎ নিয়ে ফিসফাস করছিলেন। পরদিন অফিসার মেসে মেজর মুশতাককে তাঁর কক্ষে মৃত অবস্থায় পাওয়া যায়।

এ নিয়ে দুটি ভাষ্য আছে। খাদিম হুসেন রাজা তাঁর বইতে বলেছেন, মেজর মুশতাক বাঙালিদের সম্পর্কে নিয়াজির অপমানকর বক্তব্য সহ্য করতে না পেরে রাগে, দুঃখে, ক্ষোভে আত্মহত্যা করেছেন। কিন্তু মুক্তিযোদ্ধা-গবেষক লে. কর্নেল (অব.) কাজী সাজ্জাদ আলী জহির লিখেছেন, মুশতাক রাতে মেসে ঘুমাতে গেলে নিয়াজি জওয়ান পাঠিয়ে তাঁকে হত্যা করিয়েছেন। এভাবেই তিনি বাঙালি কর্মকর্তার ‘ঔদ্ধত্যের’ জবাব দিয়েছেন (_ইন কোয়েস্ট অফ ফ্রিডম: দ্য ওয়ার অব ১৯৭১_, সম্পাদক মেজর জেনারেল আয়ান কারডোজো)।

কাজী সাজ্জাদ আরও লিখেছেন, ঢাকায় বাড়ি থাকা সত্ত্বেও এই বাঙালি মেজর অফিসার মেসে থাকতেন। সকালে কয়েকজন পাকিস্তানি সেনা একটি ট্রাকে সাদা কাফনে ঢেকে মুশতাকের লাশ তাঁর বাড়িতে আনেন এবং তাঁরা পরিবারকে জানান, তিনি বাথরুমে আত্মহত্যা করেছেন। পরিবারের সদস্যরা লাশ দাফন করতে চাইলে জানানো হয়, অনুমতি নেই। শুধু দেখানোর জন্য এখানে নিয়ে আসা হয়েছে। পরে সেনাবাহিনীর তত্ত্বাবধানে বনানী কবরস্থানে তাঁকে দাফন করা হয়।

মুশতাকের পরিবারের দাবি, বাঙালি অফিসার হিসেবে মুশতাকের অস্ত্র বহনের কোনো সুযোগ ছিল না। তাহলে তিনি কীভাবে মাথায় অস্ত্র ঠেকিয়ে আত্মহত্যা করবেন? তিনি যে মেসে ছিলেন, তাতে ১৩ ফ্রন্টিয়ার রেজিমেন্টের কর্মকর্তারা ছিলেন। ধারণা করা হয়, ওই দিন খুব ভোরে কতিপয় সেনাসদস্য মুশতাকের কক্ষে গিয়ে গলা কেটে তাঁকে হত্যা করেন।

নিয়াজির এই আচরণে বিস্মিত হয়েছেন পাকিস্তানি কর্মকর্তা খাদিম হুসেন রাজাও। দ্বিপক্ষীয় বৈঠকে রাজা যখন তাঁকে পরিস্থিতির ভয়াবহতা বোঝাচ্ছিলেন এবং করণীয় সম্পর্কে বলছিলেন, তখন নিয়াজি ঠাট্টা করে বলেন, ‘ওসব পরে দেখা যাবে। আপনি বরং আপনার বাঙালি বান্ধবীদের টেলিফোন নম্বরগুলো দিয়ে যান।’

মেজর মুশতাক ছিলেন অন্যতম জ্যেষ্ঠ বাঙালি কর্মকর্তা। তিনি ছিলেন মেধাবী ও সাহসী। যদি তাঁকে হত্যা করা হয়ে থাকে, সেটি করা হয়েছে নিয়াজির নির্দেশেই। সে ক্ষেত্রে, মেজর মুশতাকই ছিলেন নিয়াজির নৃশংসতার প্রথম শিকার।

prothomalo.com
March 23, 2018

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## Shahzaz ud din

EastBengalPro said:


> *The first victim of Niazi's atrocities is the Bengali Major*
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> *
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> Major Abu Yusuf Mushtaq Ahmed
> 
> Yahya Khan could not be sure about the military operation in Bangladesh even after the massacre and destruction of March 25. He decided that a military officer would be sent to Bangladesh, who would be able to execute genocide efficiently than Tikka Khan.
> 
> On 2 April, Army Chief General Abdul Hamid summoned Major General Amir Abdullah Niazi to the head of the tenth rank of Pakistan Infantry Division. On April 3, Niazi met the army chief and was informed that Yahya Khan was not very satisfied with the way the operation was going on in East Pakistan. He decided that he would be sent to the Eastern Command (Niazi) by seeing him as the youngest in the age of previous records. When asked for Niazi's opinion, Gadgad said that every soldier's responsibility is to obey the orders of the senior authority. Then Niazi Le By promoting the rank of General, the responsibility of the command of East Pakistan was given.
> 
> This information has emerged that in the beginning of 1971, another army officer, Khadim Hussain Rajar, _a stranger in my own country: East Pakistan in 1969-1971_ (Oxford University Publishers).
> 
> According to the king, Niazi came to Dhaka on 4th April. Although Tikka Khan was stunned, he handed over the charge to Niazi on 10 April.
> 
> April 10 four in the afternoon. Niazi sat in a meeting with the senior army officers in the operation room of the Eastern Command in Dhaka Cantonment. Everyone was shocked to see him entering the room with a pistol around him. Rules of leaving the arms out of such a meeting Niazi told the officials, "In the future, officials will be able to carry a pistol anywhere in uniform wearing the uniform.
> 
> Then he surprised everyone by saying in Urdu that the people of this haraam jada should remember, who is he? At one stage, he told to change the face of the Bengali nation. This indication was indecent.
> 
> Most of the West Pakistani officials and some Bengali officials were also present in the meeting. One of them Major Abu Yusuf Mushtaq Ahmed He could not bear the nasty word of Niazi, saying to the general, "It is very objectionable to say such a thing and he has to withdraw it." Pinpoint silence in the room. Niazi went out of the angry mood without responding.
> 
> After a while, the steady and steadfast Major Mushtaq also left. After this incident, West Pakistani officials were whispering about his future. The next day Major Mushtaq was found dead in his cell in the officer's office.
> 
> There are two commentaries on this. Khadim Hussein Raja said in his book, Major Mushtaq committed suicide in anger, sadness, anger, and could not tolerate Nijazi's insulting speech about Bengalis. But freedom fighter-researcher Lieutenant Colonel (retd) Kazi Sajjad Ali Zahir wrote that, when Mushtaq came to sleep on the night, Niazi sent him to death and killed him. In this way, he replied to the 'arrogance' of the Bengali officer ( _In Quest of Freedom: The War of 1971_ , editor Major General Ayan Karadozo).
> 
> Kazi Sajjad also wrote, despite having a home in Dhaka, the Bengali Major Officer was in the mes. In the morning, some Pakistani soldiers brought a body of Mushtaq in his house covered with a white shroud and told the family that he had committed suicide in the bathroom. The family members were told to bury the body, there is no permission. Just brought here to show. He was buried under the supervision of the army at Banani Graveyard.
> 
> Mushtaq's family claimed that Mushtaq had no chance of carrying arms as a Bengali officer. Then how will he put his arms on the head and commit suicide? In the message he was in, there were officers of the 13 Frontier Regiment. It is believed that in the very early morning, some soldiers went to Mushtaq's room and cut him to the neck and killed him.
> 
> Pakistani officials Khadim Hussein Raja was surprised by Niazi's behavior. In the bilateral meeting, when he was talking about the terrible situation of the situation and talking about the matter, Niazi laughed and said, 'They will be seen later. You rather leave telephone numbers of your Bengali girl friends. '
> 
> Major Mushtaq was one of the senior Bengali officers. He was brilliant and brave. If he is killed, it is done by Niazi's direction. In that case, Major Mushtaq was the first victim of Niyaz's atrocity.
> 
> 
> ২৫ মার্চের গণহত্যা ও ধ্বংসযজ্ঞ চালানোর পরও ইয়াহিয়া খান বাংলাদেশে সামরিক অভিযান নিয়ে নিশ্চিত হতে পারছিলেন না। তিনি সিদ্ধান্ত নিলেন এমন একজন সেনা কর্মকর্তাকে বাংলাদেশে পাঠানো হবে, যিনি টিক্কা খানের চেয়েও দক্ষতার সঙ্গে গণহত্যা চালাতে পারবেন।
> 
> ২ এপ্রিল সেনাপ্রধান জেনারেল আবদুল হামিদ দশম পাকিস্তান পদাতিক বিভাগের সদর দপ্তরে মেজর জেনারেল আমির আবদুল্লাহ নিয়াজিকে তলব করেন। ৩ এপ্রিল নিয়াজি সেনাপ্রধানের সঙ্গে দেখা করলে তাঁকে জানানো হয়, পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে যেভাবে অভিযান চলছে, তাতে ইয়াহিয়া খান পুরো সন্তুষ্ট নন। তিনি সিদ্ধান্ত নিয়েছেন, বয়সে কনিষ্ঠ হলেও অতীতের রেকর্ড দেখে তাঁকেই (নিয়াজি) ইস্টার্ন কমান্ডের দায়িত্ব দিয়ে পাঠানো হবে। এ ব্যাপারে নিয়াজির কাছে মতামত চাওয়া হলে তিনি গদগদ কণ্ঠে বলেন, প্রত্যেক সৈনিকেরই দায়িত্ব ঊর্ধ্বতন কর্তৃপক্ষের নির্দেশ পালন করা। এরপর নিয়াজিকে লে. জেনারেল পদে উন্নীত করে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের কমান্ডের দায়িত্ব দেওয়া হয়।
> 
> এসব তথ্য উঠে এসেছে একাত্তরের শুরুতে ঢাকায় দায়িত্ব পালনকারী আরেক সেনা কর্মকর্তা খাদিম হুসেন রাজার _আ স্ট্রেঞ্জার ইন মাই ওউন কান্ট্রি: ইস্ট পাকিস্তান ১৯৬৯-১৯৭১_ বইতে (অক্সফোর্ড ইউনিভার্সিটি পাবলিশার্স)।
> 
> রাজার ভাষ্যমতে, ৪ এপ্রিল নিয়াজি ঢাকায় এলেন। টিক্কা খান মনঃক্ষুণ্ন হলেও ১০ এপ্রিল নিয়াজির কাছে দায়িত্ব হস্তান্তর করেন।
> 
> ১০ এপ্রিল বিকেল চারটা। নিয়াজি ঢাকা সেনানিবাসে ইস্টার্ন কমান্ডের অপারেশন কক্ষে জ্যেষ্ঠ সেনা কর্মকর্তাদের নিয়ে বৈঠকে বসেন। তাঁকে কোমরে পিস্তল নিয়ে কক্ষে ঢুকতে দেখে সবাই হতবাক হন। এ ধরনের বৈঠকে অস্ত্র বাইরে রেখে আসার নিয়ম। নিয়াজি কর্মকর্তাদের উদ্দেশে বলেন, ভবিষ্যতে কর্মকর্তারা ইউনিফর্ম পরা অবস্থায় যেকোনো স্থানে পিস্তল নিয়ে যেতে পারবেন।
> 
> এরপর সবাইকে অবাক করে দিয়ে তিনি উর্দুতে বলেন, এই হারামজাদা জাতির মনে রাখা উচিত, তিনি কে। একপর্যায়ে তিনি বাঙালি জাতির চেহারা বদলে দেওয়ার কথা বলেন। এই ইঙ্গিত ছিল অশালীন।
> 
> বৈঠকে অধিকাংশ পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানি কর্মকর্তার সঙ্গে কয়েকজন বাঙালি কর্মকর্তাও উপস্থিত ছিলেন। এঁদের একজন মেজর আবু ইউসুফ মুশতাক আহমেদ। তিনি নিয়াজির এই কদর্য কথা সহ্য করতে না পেরে জেনারেলের উদ্দেশে বলেন, এ ধরনের কথাবার্তা বলা খুবই আপত্তিকর এবং তাঁকে তা প্রত্যাহার করতে হবে। কক্ষে তখন পিনপতন নীরবতা। কোনো কথার জবাব না দিয়ে নিয়াজি ক্ষুব্ধ মেজাজে বেরিয়ে গেলেন।
> 
> কিছুক্ষণ পর ধীরস্থির ও অবিচল মেজর মুশতাকও বেরিয়ে যান। এ ঘটনার পর পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানি কর্মকর্তারা তাঁর ভবিষ্যৎ নিয়ে ফিসফাস করছিলেন। পরদিন অফিসার মেসে মেজর মুশতাককে তাঁর কক্ষে মৃত অবস্থায় পাওয়া যায়।
> 
> এ নিয়ে দুটি ভাষ্য আছে। খাদিম হুসেন রাজা তাঁর বইতে বলেছেন, মেজর মুশতাক বাঙালিদের সম্পর্কে নিয়াজির অপমানকর বক্তব্য সহ্য করতে না পেরে রাগে, দুঃখে, ক্ষোভে আত্মহত্যা করেছেন। কিন্তু মুক্তিযোদ্ধা-গবেষক লে. কর্নেল (অব.) কাজী সাজ্জাদ আলী জহির লিখেছেন, মুশতাক রাতে মেসে ঘুমাতে গেলে নিয়াজি জওয়ান পাঠিয়ে তাঁকে হত্যা করিয়েছেন। এভাবেই তিনি বাঙালি কর্মকর্তার ‘ঔদ্ধত্যের’ জবাব দিয়েছেন (_ইন কোয়েস্ট অফ ফ্রিডম: দ্য ওয়ার অব ১৯৭১_, সম্পাদক মেজর জেনারেল আয়ান কারডোজো)।
> 
> কাজী সাজ্জাদ আরও লিখেছেন, ঢাকায় বাড়ি থাকা সত্ত্বেও এই বাঙালি মেজর অফিসার মেসে থাকতেন। সকালে কয়েকজন পাকিস্তানি সেনা একটি ট্রাকে সাদা কাফনে ঢেকে মুশতাকের লাশ তাঁর বাড়িতে আনেন এবং তাঁরা পরিবারকে জানান, তিনি বাথরুমে আত্মহত্যা করেছেন। পরিবারের সদস্যরা লাশ দাফন করতে চাইলে জানানো হয়, অনুমতি নেই। শুধু দেখানোর জন্য এখানে নিয়ে আসা হয়েছে। পরে সেনাবাহিনীর তত্ত্বাবধানে বনানী কবরস্থানে তাঁকে দাফন করা হয়।
> 
> মুশতাকের পরিবারের দাবি, বাঙালি অফিসার হিসেবে মুশতাকের অস্ত্র বহনের কোনো সুযোগ ছিল না। তাহলে তিনি কীভাবে মাথায় অস্ত্র ঠেকিয়ে আত্মহত্যা করবেন? তিনি যে মেসে ছিলেন, তাতে ১৩ ফ্রন্টিয়ার রেজিমেন্টের কর্মকর্তারা ছিলেন। ধারণা করা হয়, ওই দিন খুব ভোরে কতিপয় সেনাসদস্য মুশতাকের কক্ষে গিয়ে গলা কেটে তাঁকে হত্যা করেন।
> 
> নিয়াজির এই আচরণে বিস্মিত হয়েছেন পাকিস্তানি কর্মকর্তা খাদিম হুসেন রাজাও। দ্বিপক্ষীয় বৈঠকে রাজা যখন তাঁকে পরিস্থিতির ভয়াবহতা বোঝাচ্ছিলেন এবং করণীয় সম্পর্কে বলছিলেন, তখন নিয়াজি ঠাট্টা করে বলেন, ‘ওসব পরে দেখা যাবে। আপনি বরং আপনার বাঙালি বান্ধবীদের টেলিফোন নম্বরগুলো দিয়ে যান।’
> 
> মেজর মুশতাক ছিলেন অন্যতম জ্যেষ্ঠ বাঙালি কর্মকর্তা। তিনি ছিলেন মেধাবী ও সাহসী। যদি তাঁকে হত্যা করা হয়ে থাকে, সেটি করা হয়েছে নিয়াজির নির্দেশেই। সে ক্ষেত্রে, মেজর মুশতাকই ছিলেন নিয়াজির নৃশংসতার প্রথম শিকার।
> 
> prothomalo.com
> March 23, 2018


KHAS KAM JAHAN PAK


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## monitor

EastBengalPro said:


> *The first victim of Niazi's atrocities is the Bengali Major*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Major Abu Yusuf Mushtaq Ahmed
> 
> Yahya Khan could not be sure about the military operation in Bangladesh even after the massacre and destruction of March 25. He decided that a military officer would be sent to Bangladesh, who would be able to execute genocide efficiently than Tikka Khan.
> 
> On 2 April, Army Chief General Abdul Hamid summoned Major General Amir Abdullah Niazi to the head of the tenth rank of Pakistan Infantry Division. On April 3, Niazi met the army chief and was informed that Yahya Khan was not very satisfied with the way the operation was going on in East Pakistan. He decided that he would be sent to the Eastern Command (Niazi) by seeing him as the youngest in the age of previous records. When asked for Niazi's opinion, Gadgad said that every soldier's responsibility is to obey the orders of the senior authority. Then Niazi Le By promoting the rank of General, the responsibility of the command of East Pakistan was given.
> 
> This information has emerged that in the beginning of 1971, another army officer, Khadim Hussain Rajar, _a stranger in my own country: East Pakistan in 1969-1971_ (Oxford University Publishers).
> 
> According to the king, Niazi came to Dhaka on 4th April. Although Tikka Khan was stunned, he handed over the charge to Niazi on 10 April.
> 
> April 10 four in the afternoon. Niazi sat in a meeting with the senior army officers in the operation room of the Eastern Command in Dhaka Cantonment. Everyone was shocked to see him entering the room with a pistol around him. Rules of leaving the arms out of such a meeting Niazi told the officials, "In the future, officials will be able to carry a pistol anywhere in uniform wearing the uniform.
> 
> Then he surprised everyone by saying in Urdu that the people of this haraam jada should remember, who is he? At one stage, he told to change the face of the Bengali nation. This indication was indecent.
> 
> Most of the West Pakistani officials and some Bengali officials were also present in the meeting. One of them Major Abu Yusuf Mushtaq Ahmed He could not bear the nasty word of Niazi, saying to the general, "It is very objectionable to say such a thing and he has to withdraw it." Pinpoint silence in the room. Niazi went out of the angry mood without responding.
> 
> After a while, the steady and steadfast Major Mushtaq also left. After this incident, West Pakistani officials were whispering about his future. The next day Major Mushtaq was found dead in his cell in the officer's office.
> 
> There are two commentaries on this. Khadim Hussein Raja said in his book, Major Mushtaq committed suicide in anger, sadness, anger, and could not tolerate Nijazi's insulting speech about Bengalis. But freedom fighter-researcher Lieutenant Colonel (retd) Kazi Sajjad Ali Zahir wrote that, when Mushtaq came to sleep on the night, Niazi sent him to death and killed him. In this way, he replied to the 'arrogance' of the Bengali officer ( _In Quest of Freedom: The War of 1971_ , editor Major General Ayan Karadozo).
> 
> Kazi Sajjad also wrote, despite having a home in Dhaka, the Bengali Major Officer was in the mes. In the morning, some Pakistani soldiers brought a body of Mushtaq in his house covered with a white shroud and told the family that he had committed suicide in the bathroom. The family members were told to bury the body, there is no permission. Just brought here to show. He was buried under the supervision of the army at Banani Graveyard.
> 
> Mushtaq's family claimed that Mushtaq had no chance of carrying arms as a Bengali officer. Then how will he put his arms on the head and commit suicide? In the message he was in, there were officers of the 13 Frontier Regiment. It is believed that in the very early morning, some soldiers went to Mushtaq's room and cut him to the neck and killed him.
> 
> Pakistani officials Khadim Hussein Raja was surprised by Niazi's behavior. In the bilateral meeting, when he was talking about the terrible situation of the situation and talking about the matter, Niazi laughed and said, 'They will be seen later. You rather leave telephone numbers of your Bengali girl friends. '
> 
> Major Mushtaq was one of the senior Bengali officers. He was brilliant and brave. If he is killed, it is done by Niazi's direction. In that case, Major Mushtaq was the first victim of Niyaz's atrocity.
> 
> 
> ২৫ মার্চের গণহত্যা ও ধ্বংসযজ্ঞ চালানোর পরও ইয়াহিয়া খান বাংলাদেশে সামরিক অভিযান নিয়ে নিশ্চিত হতে পারছিলেন না। তিনি সিদ্ধান্ত নিলেন এমন একজন সেনা কর্মকর্তাকে বাংলাদেশে পাঠানো হবে, যিনি টিক্কা খানের চেয়েও দক্ষতার সঙ্গে গণহত্যা চালাতে পারবেন।
> 
> ২ এপ্রিল সেনাপ্রধান জেনারেল আবদুল হামিদ দশম পাকিস্তান পদাতিক বিভাগের সদর দপ্তরে মেজর জেনারেল আমির আবদুল্লাহ নিয়াজিকে তলব করেন। ৩ এপ্রিল নিয়াজি সেনাপ্রধানের সঙ্গে দেখা করলে তাঁকে জানানো হয়, পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে যেভাবে অভিযান চলছে, তাতে ইয়াহিয়া খান পুরো সন্তুষ্ট নন। তিনি সিদ্ধান্ত নিয়েছেন, বয়সে কনিষ্ঠ হলেও অতীতের রেকর্ড দেখে তাঁকেই (নিয়াজি) ইস্টার্ন কমান্ডের দায়িত্ব দিয়ে পাঠানো হবে। এ ব্যাপারে নিয়াজির কাছে মতামত চাওয়া হলে তিনি গদগদ কণ্ঠে বলেন, প্রত্যেক সৈনিকেরই দায়িত্ব ঊর্ধ্বতন কর্তৃপক্ষের নির্দেশ পালন করা। এরপর নিয়াজিকে লে. জেনারেল পদে উন্নীত করে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের কমান্ডের দায়িত্ব দেওয়া হয়।
> 
> এসব তথ্য উঠে এসেছে একাত্তরের শুরুতে ঢাকায় দায়িত্ব পালনকারী আরেক সেনা কর্মকর্তা খাদিম হুসেন রাজার _আ স্ট্রেঞ্জার ইন মাই ওউন কান্ট্রি: ইস্ট পাকিস্তান ১৯৬৯-১৯৭১_ বইতে (অক্সফোর্ড ইউনিভার্সিটি পাবলিশার্স)।
> 
> রাজার ভাষ্যমতে, ৪ এপ্রিল নিয়াজি ঢাকায় এলেন। টিক্কা খান মনঃক্ষুণ্ন হলেও ১০ এপ্রিল নিয়াজির কাছে দায়িত্ব হস্তান্তর করেন।
> 
> ১০ এপ্রিল বিকেল চারটা। নিয়াজি ঢাকা সেনানিবাসে ইস্টার্ন কমান্ডের অপারেশন কক্ষে জ্যেষ্ঠ সেনা কর্মকর্তাদের নিয়ে বৈঠকে বসেন। তাঁকে কোমরে পিস্তল নিয়ে কক্ষে ঢুকতে দেখে সবাই হতবাক হন। এ ধরনের বৈঠকে অস্ত্র বাইরে রেখে আসার নিয়ম। নিয়াজি কর্মকর্তাদের উদ্দেশে বলেন, ভবিষ্যতে কর্মকর্তারা ইউনিফর্ম পরা অবস্থায় যেকোনো স্থানে পিস্তল নিয়ে যেতে পারবেন।
> 
> এরপর সবাইকে অবাক করে দিয়ে তিনি উর্দুতে বলেন, এই হারামজাদা জাতির মনে রাখা উচিত, তিনি কে। একপর্যায়ে তিনি বাঙালি জাতির চেহারা বদলে দেওয়ার কথা বলেন। এই ইঙ্গিত ছিল অশালীন।
> 
> বৈঠকে অধিকাংশ পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানি কর্মকর্তার সঙ্গে কয়েকজন বাঙালি কর্মকর্তাও উপস্থিত ছিলেন। এঁদের একজন মেজর আবু ইউসুফ মুশতাক আহমেদ। তিনি নিয়াজির এই কদর্য কথা সহ্য করতে না পেরে জেনারেলের উদ্দেশে বলেন, এ ধরনের কথাবার্তা বলা খুবই আপত্তিকর এবং তাঁকে তা প্রত্যাহার করতে হবে। কক্ষে তখন পিনপতন নীরবতা। কোনো কথার জবাব না দিয়ে নিয়াজি ক্ষুব্ধ মেজাজে বেরিয়ে গেলেন।
> 
> কিছুক্ষণ পর ধীরস্থির ও অবিচল মেজর মুশতাকও বেরিয়ে যান। এ ঘটনার পর পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানি কর্মকর্তারা তাঁর ভবিষ্যৎ নিয়ে ফিসফাস করছিলেন। পরদিন অফিসার মেসে মেজর মুশতাককে তাঁর কক্ষে মৃত অবস্থায় পাওয়া যায়।
> 
> এ নিয়ে দুটি ভাষ্য আছে। খাদিম হুসেন রাজা তাঁর বইতে বলেছেন, মেজর মুশতাক বাঙালিদের সম্পর্কে নিয়াজির অপমানকর বক্তব্য সহ্য করতে না পেরে রাগে, দুঃখে, ক্ষোভে আত্মহত্যা করেছেন। কিন্তু মুক্তিযোদ্ধা-গবেষক লে. কর্নেল (অব.) কাজী সাজ্জাদ আলী জহির লিখেছেন, মুশতাক রাতে মেসে ঘুমাতে গেলে নিয়াজি জওয়ান পাঠিয়ে তাঁকে হত্যা করিয়েছেন। এভাবেই তিনি বাঙালি কর্মকর্তার ‘ঔদ্ধত্যের’ জবাব দিয়েছেন (_ইন কোয়েস্ট অফ ফ্রিডম: দ্য ওয়ার অব ১৯৭১_, সম্পাদক মেজর জেনারেল আয়ান কারডোজো)।
> 
> কাজী সাজ্জাদ আরও লিখেছেন, ঢাকায় বাড়ি থাকা সত্ত্বেও এই বাঙালি মেজর অফিসার মেসে থাকতেন। সকালে কয়েকজন পাকিস্তানি সেনা একটি ট্রাকে সাদা কাফনে ঢেকে মুশতাকের লাশ তাঁর বাড়িতে আনেন এবং তাঁরা পরিবারকে জানান, তিনি বাথরুমে আত্মহত্যা করেছেন। পরিবারের সদস্যরা লাশ দাফন করতে চাইলে জানানো হয়, অনুমতি নেই। শুধু দেখানোর জন্য এখানে নিয়ে আসা হয়েছে। পরে সেনাবাহিনীর তত্ত্বাবধানে বনানী কবরস্থানে তাঁকে দাফন করা হয়।
> 
> মুশতাকের পরিবারের দাবি, বাঙালি অফিসার হিসেবে মুশতাকের অস্ত্র বহনের কোনো সুযোগ ছিল না। তাহলে তিনি কীভাবে মাথায় অস্ত্র ঠেকিয়ে আত্মহত্যা করবেন? তিনি যে মেসে ছিলেন, তাতে ১৩ ফ্রন্টিয়ার রেজিমেন্টের কর্মকর্তারা ছিলেন। ধারণা করা হয়, ওই দিন খুব ভোরে কতিপয় সেনাসদস্য মুশতাকের কক্ষে গিয়ে গলা কেটে তাঁকে হত্যা করেন।
> 
> নিয়াজির এই আচরণে বিস্মিত হয়েছেন পাকিস্তানি কর্মকর্তা খাদিম হুসেন রাজাও। দ্বিপক্ষীয় বৈঠকে রাজা যখন তাঁকে পরিস্থিতির ভয়াবহতা বোঝাচ্ছিলেন এবং করণীয় সম্পর্কে বলছিলেন, তখন নিয়াজি ঠাট্টা করে বলেন, ‘ওসব পরে দেখা যাবে। আপনি বরং আপনার বাঙালি বান্ধবীদের টেলিফোন নম্বরগুলো দিয়ে যান।’
> 
> মেজর মুশতাক ছিলেন অন্যতম জ্যেষ্ঠ বাঙালি কর্মকর্তা। তিনি ছিলেন মেধাবী ও সাহসী। যদি তাঁকে হত্যা করা হয়ে থাকে, সেটি করা হয়েছে নিয়াজির নির্দেশেই। সে ক্ষেত্রে, মেজর মুশতাকই ছিলেন নিয়াজির নৃশংসতার প্রথম শিকার।
> 
> prothomalo.com
> March 23, 2018


One of the reasons why arm forces Bengali members revolted was their grievances over not getting appreciate position they deserve , very few Bengali get the opportunity to join arm forces as west Pakistani wrongly consider Bengali incapable of fighting. Though we break their this idea wrong by fighting 65 war.
If Bengali members get enough respect then maybe most of them didn't join the war of liberation same goes for govt civil officer whose grievances was same as military.

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Homo Sapiens

*Survey shows countless more genocide acts in 1971 than previously reported*

BSS
Published at 07:25 PM March 30, 2018
Last updated at 08:40 PM March 30, 2018



Cultural Affairs Minister Asaduzzaman Noor addresses a seminar on the genocide committed by Pakistani forces in 1971, at the Bangla Academy auditorium in Dhaka on Friday; March 30, 2018*PID*
*The highest number of incidents of genocide among the ten districts was in Khulna, at over 1,200*

Over 2,400 genocide acts by the Pakistani army and their local collaborators took place in 10 districts of Bangladesh in 1971, according to a new survey conducted by a group of researchers led by renowned historian Professor Muntassir Mamun.

Earlier it had been thought there were 905 incidents of genocide in all 64 districts.

The survey has so far been conducted in Nilphamari, Bogra, Natore, Kurigram, Pabna, Rajshahi, Satkhira, Narayanganj, Bhola, and Khulna districts. It will be carried out in the remaining 54 districts in phases. The 1971 Genocide-Repression Archive and Museum Trust, which was established under the initiative of Prof Mamun in Khulna, is conducting the survey.

“Before the survey, we had assumed there were five to six acts of genocide and a few torture centres in Nilphamari. But we found in the survey that there were 85 incidents of genocide and 20 torture centers in the district in 1971,” said Prof Mamun, in presenting the survey report at the inaugural ceremony of a daylong seminar on the genocide of 1971 at the Bangla Academy auditorium in Dhaka on Friday.

The highest number of incidents of genocide among the ten districts was in Khulna, at over 1,200, while the highest number of torture centres was in Rajshahi, at over a hundred. There were a total of 204 killing fields and 151 mass graves in the 10 districts.





Considering the new data, Prof Mamun said the number of martyrs in 1971 would easily exceed the government announced figure of 3 million.

“Earlier, we had information on 905 incidents of genocide in all districts in 1971, which put the number of martyrs at around 3 million. With the new survey now finding over 2,400 incidents in just 10 districts, the actual number of martyrs is likely to be much higher,” he claimed.

Cultural Affairs Minister Asaduzzaman Noor addressed the function as the chief guest, while writer and journalist Shahriar Kabir, also spoke on the occasion. Ten volumes of the survey report were published at the event.

In his address, Asaduzzaman Noor said it was disappointing that the genocide committed against unarmed citizens of Bangladesh by Pakistani occupation forces and their collaborators was yet to get international recognition.

He said this lack of action from the international community was stopping perpetrators of crimes against humanity from being brought to justice.

The minister also paid a rich tribute to the Father of the Nation, Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, saying no other leader could have earned as much trust and faith from the people.

“Thousands from all walks of life leapt into the Liberation War in response to his call, and embraced martyrdom to free the nation from Pakistani subjugation,” he said.

The minister also said it was a matter of great sorrow that “some of the defeated forces of 1971” were still in politics in Bangladesh.

“In no other country of the world can a political party which does not believe in the state’s independence and sovereignty participate in politics,” he added.

Meanwhile, Shahriar Kabir called for the Liberation War Denial Crimes Act to be approved in parliament, so that those who denied a genocide took place can be brought to justice.
http://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh/war-crimes/2018/03/30/survey-genocide-1971-higher/

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## El Sidd

This thread is why PTA will ban defence.pk


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## The Ronin

MUKTIJODDHAS with a Captured PAK GAZ 69..

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## Ryuzaki

Can any Bangladeshi share links about the role played by Mukti Bahni in the liberation of Bangladesh?It will be very interesting if it also contains casualties and losses inflicted on enemy forces by them.


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## Shahzaz ud din

Awesome said:


> First catch our own people, they are still in power, same Bhuttos, same generals, same enforced democracy, same no popular actions, same in justice, same everything.
> 
> You are more complainy about what India did, that is India, India will do it. Big deal, why don't you go and do something like that in India? You can't because you're still the same - still weak.
> 
> I called you foolish because every word you have said here, only makes you weaker. There is strength in acceptance, because from there would come correction of oneself.
> 
> Your core is corrupted, how can you possibly go around finding faults in others when you're messed up from the core. Be real


 awesome ! But a retired PDF general


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## Bilal9

12:00 AM, September 08, 2014 / LAST MODIFIED: 01:53 AM, March 08, 2015
*1965 INDO-PAK WAR: BUSTING THE MYTH*
*1965 Indo-Pak War: Busting the myth*


Air Cdre (Retd) Ishfaq Ilahi Choudhury

THIS article is to recall the 17-day war of Sep 1965 between India and Pakistan that, among other things, helped to do two things as far as the Bengalis were concerned. One, it completely destroyed the myth created about the Bengalis being a non-martial race. And secondly, it exposed the lax preparedness for the defence of the eastern wing of the country. *President Ayub Khan of Pakistan, in his book “Friends Not Masters”, had exposed the discriminatory mindset of the Pakistani establishment towards their Bengali compatriots. The September War was an opportunity for the Bengalis in the armed forces to vindicate their military prowess.*

Forty nine years ago on 6 September 1965, a full-scale war broke out between India and Pakistan. It was a short 17-day war that was virtually confined to West Pakistan and parts of the disputed territory of Kashmir. *As the war unfolded, the Bengalis all over Pakistan were excited over the stories of heroism by the 1st Battalion, The East Bengal Regiment (EBR) in the defence of the key Pakistani city of Lahore. Also in the air, stories of valour by Bengali pilots of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) greatly inspired the Bengali youths. The West Pakistanis used to belittle the Bengalis by calling them a non-martial race; this was belied by the military prowess and bravery shown by the officers and men of Bengali origin. The war also exposed the eastern wing's vulnerabilities with so little military assets to defend it. The war is virtually forgotten in Bangladesh today, despite the fact that the Bengalis played an important part in it.*

Pakistani leadership at that time had led the nation to a disastrous war that was fraught with serious political and military lapses. After the debacle in the border war with China in 1962, India started a massive expansion and modernization of its armed forces with generous aid from the Soviet Union and Western powers. Pakistani leadership realized that the possibility of militarily pressurizing India was fast slipping away as the power balance tilted more towards India. They started planning a secret military operation to force India to come to a negotiated settlement on Kashmir. In early August 1965, Pakistan launched a clandestine operation, code named “Operation Gibraltar”. The aim was to infiltrate inside Indian held Kashmir and to demolish bridges, cutoff supply lines, etc to create panic among the populace. They also set up a radio station, called “Sada-e-Kashmir”, purported to be the voice of the Mujahedin fighting for Kashmir's liberation. The assumption was that the radio broadcast, along with the guerilla activities, will trigger a general uprising among the Kashmiris. None of that happened. In fact, many of these infiltrators were arrested, killed in encounters and often were handed over to the authority by the locals. By the end of August, Operation Gibraltar petered out; remnants of the so-called Mujahedin tracked back to Pakistan.

On 1 September 1965, regular Pakistani troops crossed the cease fire line (CFL) and moved towards Jammu. The forces made quick advance and in the next couple of days threatened to cut Jammu-Srinagar road. The Indian PM gave a warning on 2 September that unless Pakistan withdrew its forces across the CFL, India would respond “at a time and place of its own choosing”. The Indian response came on 5-6 Sept night when it launched attacks across Sialkot and Lahore. The Indian response was full one month after the Pakistani incursion. The Indian forces, besides threatening two key cities, poised to cut the vital Grand Trunk (GT) road. *At this time, the 1st Battalion of the EBR was deployed in the defence of Lahore along the Bambawali- Ravi-Bedian canal, commonly known as BRB canal. They held their ground despite repeated Indian attacks. At the end of the war, this regiment had the honour of being awarded the highest number of gallantry awards among all the regiments of Pakistan Army.*

In the air war that followed, Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had a qualitative edge over the IAF in terms of pilots and aircraft, which, despite IAF's quantitative advantage, gave PAF a slight edge in the end. *Here too, a number of PAF pilots of Bengali origin earned high military honour. Many Bengali soldiers and airmen embraced martyrdom and many others were wounded in battle. *

By the second week into the war, Pakistani forces were running out of ammunition and spares. US had imposed on both the warring sides an arms embargo which hurt Pakistan badly because almost all her weapons were of US origin. Pakistan had no option but to accept a UN resolution for a ceasefire to take effect from 22 September 1965. An initiative by the Soviet Premier Alexei Kosygin, resulted in a peace deal, known as “The Tashkent Declaration”, signed by the warring parties on 4 January 1966 in Tashkent. The declaration was hailed as a new beginning of peace. It stated that both countries will pull back their forces to pre-war positions, will restore economic and diplomatic ties and will initiate orderly exchange of prisoners. The treaty was viewed by many Pakistanis as a diplomatic defeat for President Ayub. Ayub never recovered from the fall of his stature after Tashkent and was ousted four years later in the face of popular uprising.

This was a war that had no clear victor or vanquished. The aim of the Pakistani high command was to seize a portion of Kashmir to force India to the negotiating table; on the other hand, India's aim was to stop any Pakistani incursion and not to allow external interference in the Kashmir issue. In the end, India largely achieved her aim and objectives, while Pakistan was in disarray. The facade of democracy that President Ayub created was shattered because what to speak of the ordinary people, even the Parliament or the Cabinet was not consulted when the vital decision to send infiltrators into Kashmir was taken.

On the economic front, Pakistan suffered badly due to war. The 3rd Five Year Plan (1965-70) was virtually in tatters. *6% GDP growth rate of early 1960s almost stalled by the end of the decade. East Pakistan was cut-off from its western wing during the War. A deep sense of separatism and alienation grew in East Pakistan as an aftermath. The war raised the issue of the defence of East Pakistan. With only one infantry division, a squadron of fighters and no naval assets, except for a few patrol crafts, East Pakistan was virtually defenseless. In June 1966, the Awami League in its 6-Point Programme demanded greater defence investment in East Pakistan which soon became a rallying point for the Bengalis. Among the demands were shifting of the NHQ to Chittagong, establishment of an ordnance factory and raising of a paramilitary force to augment the defense of the eastern wing. The Bengali soldiers, sailors and airmen proved that as professional military men they are second to none. We honour those valiant sons of the soil who gave their best in the field of battle in September 1965 to keep up the honour and dignity of the Bengali nation. Many veterans of 65-War displayed the same valour in the Bangladesh Liberation War in 1971.*

The writer is Registrar, East West University, Dhaka

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## Green Arrow

*Sayed Iftikhar Murshad*
Sunday, December 16, 2012 
From Print Edition







It was a nippy mid-March afternoon in Madrid when the telephone rang in my modest one-room apartment. The caller asked in Spanish, “Are you alone?” When I replied that I was, he introduced himself as Bedi, second secretary at the Indian embassy. He said that he was under instructions from New Delhi to “repatriate” me to Dacca (Dhaka), and he had a “huge amount of money” for me. With a touch of melodrama he added: “Bangladesh, your country, awaits you.” I told him that he should never even dream of calling me again.

Barely three months earlier, on December 16, 1971, the commander of the Pakistani forces in East Pakistan, Lt Gen A A K Niazi, and the commander of the Indian Eastern Command, Lt Gen Jagjit Singh Aurora, convened at the Ramna Racecourse in Dacca where the instrument of surrender was signed. In an article, probably one of his last, the late Ardeshir Cowasjee recalled that it was all over “at one minute past five in the afternoon... Thus died the Pakistan founded and made by Muhammad Ali Jinnah, a mere 24 years previously.”

For me the wounds of that fateful day 41 years ago will never heal, because I was to be separated forever from my entire family. And this brings me back to the chain of events that were set in motion with Bedi’s phone call. I rushed to the Pakistani embassy to inform the ambassador, the late Maj Gen Abid Bilgrami. He was a soft-spoken man with the remarkable ability of always speaking in phrases of masterly understatement. Bilgrami had lost his son-in-law, a major in the Pakistani army during the war with India a few months back, but he bore his grief with poise and quiet dignity.

The ambassador listened to me attentively, and then, after a few thoughtful puffs of his pipe as he paced the room, said: “Please phone Bedi back. Say you want to meet him, fence with them. I want to know what the Indians are up to here.” Bedi chuckled when I called him and said that he was certain I would re-establish contact with him. Later that night he telephoned to say that we should meet at noon the following day at the Sunset Bar, a restaurant in downtown Madrid. He would be accompanied by his ambassador and requested that I bring my wife along with me.

The Indian ambassador, an urbane middle-aged gentleman, advanced all the reasons in carefully measured sentences why I should proceed to Dhaka. When I said this was not immediately possible because my sons, aged one and two, were in Lahore, he was not flustered and responded that there was no hurry. In the meantime I could be of help in providing his embassy information about Pakistan’s relations with Spain.

And then, as if it was an afterthought, he asked: “Do you have any knowledge about the whereabouts of a PNSC ship named Sarfraz Rafiqi which, we know, was damaged off the West African coast and is now headed towards a Spanish port for repairs? Twelve of its crewmembers plan to defect and we need to contact them urgently.” I told him that I would try and find out and get back to him promptly.

At the Pakistani embassy, Bilgrami anxiously awaited my return. A despatch was quickly cabled to Islamabad about the Sunset Bar meeting. A week later the Indian ambassador invited my wife and me for dinner at his residence, and, without bandying words, said: “Some very important people are eager that you should leave for Bangladesh immediately, but I am convinced that you should go over only after you have your children with you.” He did not disclose who these “very important people” were.

I had never imagined that my initiation to the diplomatic profession would be quite so dramatic. As a young third secretary I was naive enough to believe that I was rendering invaluable service to Pakistan. I was ready to walk through the darkest of valleys and climb treacherously steep slopes for my country. I did not know how daunting the challenges of the immediate future would be.

It was around this time that I received the first of several telephone calls from my mother in Dhaka. She wept and implored me to come over to Bangladesh. I was the only son, she said, and, in their old age, she and my father needed me. The calls became increasingly frantic and I could bear it no longer. I requested the foreign office to recall me to Islamabad and was told that I should withstand the pressure.

About ten days later, Ambassador Bilgrami hosted a dinner at his residence for embassy officials when a desperate message was received from the management of my apartment complex that I should come over immediately. We drove at breakneck speed, and, on reaching the building, found my mother at the entrance lobby.

She had travelled by herself all the way from Dhaka to take us back with her. That emotion-filled night was a turning point in my life. Things would never be the same again. I told her that I could never abandon the country which, despite its myriad faults, I loved so dearly. Then, as if to give vent to her innermost fears, she asked: “Are you sure they won’t shoot you if you return to Pakistan?” I assured her that no harm would come to me and the events of the last 14 months, so replete with hideous atrocities committed by all sides, was an aberration. She then gave me her blessings and made us promise that we visit them often in Dhaka.

I did not realise it as I saw her off at the Madrid airport that this was to be the last that I would be able to talk to her. Ten years later, when we were finally able to visit Bangladesh, it was too late. My mother was in deep coma and died two months later.

I was recalled to Pakistan in the summer of 1972 and, one evening as a tawny mane of early monsoon clouds was slowly spreading over the Islamabad skies, I came across a student with a distinctly Bengali accent at the Aabpara Market. He introduced himself as Gowher Rizvi and said that he had been selected as a Rhodes Scholar but was unable to leave Pakistan because of recently imposed exit restrictions. I promised that I would try and help him.

The next morning I called Giles Bullard, the deputy chief of the British embassy, who said that he would ensure that Rizvi reached Oxford in time. A few days later Bullard came to see me and, with a voice tremulous with joy, said, “Our young friend has finally made it to Trinity College. I wish him every success. And I hope that he will, one day, acknowledge the help given by the Pakistani government, despite these fraught and difficult times, in bending the rules so that he could avail of the scholarship.” Bullard subsequently reached the top of the diplomatic profession and was knighted. He died in 1992.

Fame pointed her choosy fingers along Gowher Rizvi’s way. He distinguished himself as an historian and academic to eventually become the international affairs adviser to the Bangladeshi prime minister. He represented his country at the recent D-8 Summit in Islamabad because, as a precondition for her participation, the prime minister of Bangladesh insisted on a formal apology from Pakistan for the tragedy of 1971. The regrets expressed by former president Pervez Musharraf during his visit to Bangladesh seem to have been forgotten.

Sarmila Bose’s groundbreaking book Dead Reckoning shatters many of the partisan myths that have been nurtured on the 1971 war. There is need for introspection. Pakistan and Bangladesh have to move forward in their relationship. It is pointless to continuously rake up the past.

The day my life changed - S Iftikhar Murshed


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## El Sidd

The Fitna of mujib wont hurt us ever again

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## Sine Nomine

El Sidd said:


> The Fitna of mujib wont hurt us ever again


Don't blame an individual for our National Disastor and idiocy.

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## El Sidd

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Don't blame an individual for our National Disastor and idiocy.



He embodied the lunacy.


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## Sine Nomine

El Sidd said:


> He embodied the lunacy.


And Yahya+Bhutto and whole establishment were saints.

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## El Sidd

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> And Yahya+Bhutto and whole establishment were saints.



All of them who helped it happen


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## Centaur

@ few Jingoistic BD folks ,
If west pakistanis really thought that east pakistanis were *incapable of fighting *then there wouldn't be bengal lietenant general in Pakistani army .
Here is some of Bengali generals, *lietenant general*
*Khwaja Wasiuddin , *
*Brigadier general Khalilur Rahman,*

*Brigadier general Quazi Golam Dastgir*

*Major general Mohammad Ishfaqul Mazid *although Mazid was born in gowhati , still belong to East pakistan and so Bengali too , as sylhet was part of Assam too before 1947 .
Colonel osmani was a pakistani promoted colonel too, so surely lots of Bengali officers were serving in Pakistan army despite such claims of opression.

Search online use common sense you will find more .
Lip service is the worst way to serve a country after 47 years .
Move on guys move on .

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## Homo Sapiens

Ryuzaki said:


> Can any Bangladeshi share links about the role played by Mukti Bahni in the liberation of Bangladesh?It will be very interesting if it also contains casualties and losses inflicted on enemy forces by them.


I can give you a PDF link of a Bengali book(if you can read Bengali) title in English would be ''The minds of Pakistani generals'. There I have read that, During April-May 1971, Pak occupation forces were loosing on average 15 personnel per day, June to August it came down to 3 to 4 Pak soldier per day due monsoon season and it was the time when Mutki Bahini was re-organizing .But from September onward, Mukti Bahini ambush escalated sharply. During the month of November, Pak force lost more than 1000 soldiers at the hands of Mukti Bahini. Pakistani forces developed a seized mentality in a hostile terrain, among the hostile population and fighting a shadow forces hardly they understood. They could not continue to these much longer.Plus civil unrest in East Pakistan was taking a heavy toll on Pak economy. Out of these desperation. they attacked western Indian air field in 3rd December to turn it into General Indo-pak war hoping that major power would intervene in favor of it.

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## El Sidd

Homo Sapiens said:


> I can give you a PDF link of a Bengali book(if you can read Bengali) title in English would be ''The minds of Pakistani generals'. There I have read that, During April-May 1971, Pak occupation forces were loosing on average 15 personnel per day, June to August it came down to 3 to 4 Pak soldier per day due monsoon season and it was the time when Mutki Bahini was organising.But from September onward, Mukti Bahini ambush escalate sharply. During the month of November, Pak force lost more than 1000 soldiers at the hands of Mukti Bahini. Pakistani forces developed a seized mentality in a hostile terrain, among the hostile population and fighting a shadow forces hardly they understood. They could not continue to these much longer.Plus civil unrest in East Pakistan was taking a heavy toll on Pak economy. Out of these desperation. they attacked western Indian air field in 3rd December to turn it into General Indo-pak war hoping that major power would intervention in favor of it.



Cool story................

Afterwards Mujib was shot by the rebels and his body thrown on the streets, left to rot for 6 days?

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## ziaulislam

Homo Sapiens said:


> I can give you a PDF link of a Bengali book(if you can read Bengali) title in English would be ''The minds of Pakistani generals'. There I have read that, During April-May 1971, Pak occupation forces were loosing on average 15 personnel per day, June to August it came down to 3 to 4 Pak soldier per day due monsoon season and it was the time when Mutki Bahini was re-organizing .But from September onward, Mukti Bahini ambush escalated sharply. During the month of November, Pak force lost more than 1000 soldiers at the hands of Mukti Bahini. Pakistani forces developed a seized mentality in a hostile terrain, among the hostile population and fighting a shadow forces hardly they understood. They could not continue to these much longer.Plus civil unrest in East Pakistan was taking a heavy toll on Pak economy. Out of these desperation. they attacked western Indian air field in 3rd December to turn it into General Indo-pak war hoping that major power would intervene in favor of it.


be realistic ...Pakistan could have kept doing it eternally when India noticed shadow war isnt working they simply openly attacked...

we realized that being in coalition is useless so we developed nuclear weapons...

we brought mujeeb to table, he visted Pakistan and we ended hostilities ...

but than he was killed and dragged by his own people and daughter is now in vegence mode against everyone even the forgotten Pakistan ..

but noone cares in Pakistan ...
end of story ...

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## Riyad




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## Homo Sapiens

The Indians and Pakistanis who claim that Mukti Bahini was nothing and Bangladesh was borned as a result of Indo-Pak war should see this video. This video from November,1971 shows, Mukti Bahini controlling many parts of countrysides and they are operating partially on captured armed from Pak army.

This video also reveals that, provisional Bangladesh govt. in Mujibnagar did not want India to directly engage warfare with Pak army in Bangladesh.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Don't know much about Mukti Bahini's fighting capabilities, but they were great as terrorists, muggers, dacoits etc.!!! They terrorized BD folks to such an extent that Mujib had to kill ~40K of them with the Indian trained and armed paramilitary forces and BD army!!! Such is the Divine Retribution....

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## bluesky

Retired Troll said:


> Cool story................
> 
> Afterwards Mujib was shot by the rebels and his body thrown on the streets, left to rot for 6 days?


Talk of 1971. Mujib was interned in a Layalpur jail. He was not leading any Mukti Fouj. Why do you have to blame him for the separation of the two wings when Yahya-Bhutto gong was doing everything to untie the knots of a united Pakistan?

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## monitor

Retired Troll said:


> Cool story................
> 
> Afterwards Mujib was shot by the rebels and his body thrown on the streets, left to rot for 6 days?



Why writing rubbish without knowing anything . Sheik Mujib was killed by a section of Army who wwee freedom fighter too. His body wasn't thrown to street but remain in his residence . He was buried next day with full Islamic way.

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## Bilal9

The real discussion starts at 6:53.

These folks are refreshingly open minded.
I could give these people big hugs. Mash'allah!

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## Homo Sapiens

Home
 Showtime
*‘Merciless Mayhem’ depicts Bangladesh genocide*
Showtime Desk
https://www.dhakatribune.com/showtime/2018/12/03/merciless-mayhem-depicts-bangladesh-genocide

 Published at 10:37 pm December 3rd, 2018






Directed by Fuad Chowdhury, the documentary reveals the conspiracy of West Pakistan in the 1970 general election and the subsequent war that gave birth to Bangladesh in 1971 | Courtesy




The 61-minute film tells the story of the genocide in Bangladesh during the 1971 Liberation War through the eyes of a group of Pakistanis. The documentary features interviews of Pakistani journalists and government officials who shared their experiences of the genocide committed by Pakistani occupation forces in 1971

Documentary film “Merciless Mayhem: The Bangladesh Genocide through Pakistani Eye” will be screened at Studio 1 of Deepto TV building in Tejgaon, Dhaka on Saturday. 

The 61-minute film tells the story of the genocide in Bangladesh during the 1971 Liberation War through the eyes of a group of Pakistanis. The documentary features interviews of Pakistani journalists and government officials who shared their experiences of the genocide committed by Pakistani occupation forces in 1971.

Directed by Fuad Chowdhury, the documentary reveals the conspiracy of West Pakistan in the 1970 general election and the subsequent war that gave birth to Bangladesh in 1971.

Fuad Chowdhury interviewed author Tarek Fatah, journalist Tariq Khan, former Federal Secretary of the then Pakistan government Roedad Khan, and Roshan Zamir, who is another former federal secretary of the then Pakistan government, and who also worked in Khulna during the Liberation War, among others.

Besides the interviews, the documentary also contains video footage of speeches by then Pakistan President Yahya Khan and Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, which were aired on different television channels.


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## ziaulislam

Homo Sapiens said:


> The Indians and Pakistanis who claim that Mukti Bahini was nothing and Bangladesh was borned as a result of Indo-Pak war should see this video. This video from November,1971 shows, Mukti Bahini controlling many parts of countrysides and they are operating partially on captured armed from Pak army.
> 
> This video also reveals that, provisional Bangladesh govt. in Mujibnagar did not want India to directly engage warfare with Pak army in Bangladesh.


Than why did india got it hands dirty


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## Homo Sapiens

ziaulislam said:


> Than why did india got it hands dirty


Because it was the only golden opportunity for India to win an easy war against Pakistan with clear cut victory and to tease Pakistan for the next thousand years. Why India would loose such a rare opportunity of war victory and glory against sworn enemy by allowing Mukti Bahini to finish the job? Due to that war, Indira Gandhi's popularity reached in immense height and she won massive electoral victory in the next election. Was she a fool not to catch such an opportunity of a life time?

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## MultaniGuy

Homo Sapiens said:


> Home
> Showtime
> *‘Merciless Mayhem’ depicts Bangladesh genocide*
> Showtime Desk
> https://www.dhakatribune.com/showtime/2018/12/03/merciless-mayhem-depicts-bangladesh-genocide
> 
> Published at 10:37 pm December 3rd, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Directed by Fuad Chowdhury, the documentary reveals the conspiracy of West Pakistan in the 1970 general election and the subsequent war that gave birth to Bangladesh in 1971 | Courtesy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 61-minute film tells the story of the genocide in Bangladesh during the 1971 Liberation War through the eyes of a group of Pakistanis. The documentary features interviews of Pakistani journalists and government officials who shared their experiences of the genocide committed by Pakistani occupation forces in 1971
> 
> Documentary film “Merciless Mayhem: The Bangladesh Genocide through Pakistani Eye” will be screened at Studio 1 of Deepto TV building in Tejgaon, Dhaka on Saturday.
> 
> The 61-minute film tells the story of the genocide in Bangladesh during the 1971 Liberation War through the eyes of a group of Pakistanis. The documentary features interviews of Pakistani journalists and government officials who shared their experiences of the genocide committed by Pakistani occupation forces in 1971.
> 
> Directed by Fuad Chowdhury, the documentary reveals the conspiracy of West Pakistan in the 1970 general election and the subsequent war that gave birth to Bangladesh in 1971.
> 
> Fuad Chowdhury interviewed author Tarek Fatah, journalist Tariq Khan, former Federal Secretary of the then Pakistan government Roedad Khan, and Roshan Zamir, who is another former federal secretary of the then Pakistan government, and who also worked in Khulna during the Liberation War, among others.
> 
> Besides the interviews, the documentary also contains video footage of speeches by then Pakistan President Yahya Khan and Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, which were aired on different television channels.


Not denying Pakistani army were cruel to the Bangladeshis. But Mukti Bahini were also killing innocent West Pakistanis and Biharis in Bangladesh.

Anyways Bangladesh is an independent country. Be happy now.


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## Nilgiri

ziaulislam said:


> Than why did india got it hands dirty



Because "Homo sapiens" kind of ppl are idiots with major inferiority complex. They needed major bailing out but too ingrate to accept that.

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> Because "Homo sapiens" kind of ppl are idiots with major inferiority complex. They needed major bailing out but too ingrate to accept that.




Says the forum weirdo that hangs around BD forum 24/7.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

With the permission of @Indus Pakistan. Looks like BD had never been the part of the original plan!!! They were an anomaly and abnormal extension of Pak, so naturally they're gone...

_"India is a continent of human groups belonging to different races, speaking different languages, and professing different religions [...] Personally, I would like to see the *Punjab*, *North-West Frontier Province*, *Sindh* and *Baluchistan* amalgamated into a *single State*. Self-government within the British Empire, or without the British Empire, the formation of a consolidated North-West Indian Muslim State appears to me to be the *final destiny of the Muslims, at least of North-West India.*"_ - Sir Allama Iqbal 1930

_"I am enclosing herewith an appeal on behalf of the thirty million Muslims of PAKISTAN, who live in the five Northern Units of India—Punjab, North-West Frontier (Afghan) Province, Kashmir, Sind, and Baluchistan. It embodies their demand for the recognition of their national status, as distinct from the other inhabitants of India, by the grant to Pakistan of a separate Federal Constitution on *religious, social and historical grounds*." - _Rehmat Ali (1933) ~ coining of Pakistan

_Geography is destiny/fate - Ibn-i Haldun_

Looks like they had a very good and clear understanding of this maxim....

Now, I would like to refer to _Alleme (Alim-ul Alim) _Ikbal's statement of "..._consolidated North-West Indian Muslim State appears to me to be the _*final destiny *of the Muslims, at least of North-West India._",_ and specially "*final destiny*"!!!! Now, destiny/fate is known as "_Kader_" in the Islamic sciences. It is one of the most complex concepts which had baffled even the best of _Ulema_ many a time!!! Anyway, no body knows what's awaiting in future for certain other than _Allah-u Azimushshan_, unless some very specific piece of info, constrained by time/space, is passed to a person by HIS permission!!! There are precedences of this in the Islamic history!!!! May be this statement is one such instance!!!! Of course _Allah-u Azimushshan_ knows the best....​

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## ziaulislam

Nilgiri said:


> Because "Homo sapiens" kind of ppl are idiots with major inferiority complex. They needed major bailing out but too ingrate to accept that.


regardless, the impact of 1971 was lasting in form of paranoid Pakistani state with nuclear weapons and permanent deadlock in south asia

to neutral expert annexation without Indian involvement was not possible, apparently 45,000 armed troops were holding their ground, ultimately they surrendered to full Indian invasion

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

"They are the friends of our enemies" - Jinnah at the Dacca University in 1948 seeing the intransigence of the students at the behest of their Hindu masters on the question of Urdu, the ultimate expression of the Muslim history/dominance/significance in the sub-continent, being the state language of Pak created on the basis of the Two-Nation Theory (TNT)

The East Pak folks had no problem to get rid of the Permanent Settlement of the perpetual subjugation to the worst socio-economic conditions under Hindu upper classes, who owned _99% of the lands in current BD_ as feudal lords, on the basis of TNT. The condition was so bad and physically/mentally abusive that many a Muslim male folk couldn't have even a circumcision after the birth or a _Jenaze_ after the death!!! However, when it came to the question of the practical implementation of TNT they were the first to back stab!!!! They wanted to get it all!!!! However, Destiny had a different plan!!! Now, they are termed and treated like the termites by their very same Hindu overlords they have been trying so hard to please....​

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## American Pakistani

_Khas kam - Jahan Pak.
_

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## Nefarious

They're a world away, totally different people. Better gone their own way rather then Pak be held hostage due to their own complexes. Traitors price is to live on their knees, to their Hindu liberators. Well played to India. Touche'

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## MultaniGuy

Nefarious said:


> They're a world away, totally different people. Better gone their own way rather then Pak be held hostage due to their own complexes. Traitors price is to live on their knees, to their Hindu liberators. Well played to India. Touche'


Indeed the Indians played well in the chess game at that time. But the war or contest is far from over.

Bangladesh was merely a pawn.

Pakistan is the real deal which has nuclear weapons. 

Also China is there waiting to snatch South Tibet from India. How will India handle this predicament?

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Bengal or BD has always been the invaders’ paradise!!! Doesn’t matter who are there in Bengal - Hindus, Muslims, Turkic, Pashtun or anybody else - they are destined to be defeated for being just there!!! Few examples:

Only 17 Turkic horsemen took over Bengal just by riding through!!! The King simply fled away
Only 200 British soldiers subdued 70K of Nawab’s army!!! Due to a conspiracy, they just looked on without putting a fight!
The Burmese are now having a free ride inside BD of 160m folks!!! Their AF checked into them for 72 hours while entire BD military remained paralyzed!!!
Now, compared to the above, 40-50K Pak forces indeed did a damn good job for 9 months being surrounded by India on 3 sides with 100K+ insurgents from both IA and BD folks active inside!!!

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## UKBengali

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Bengal or BD has always been the invaders’ paradise!!! Doesn’t matter who are there in Bengal - Hindus, Muslims, Turkic, Pashtun or anybody else - they are destined to be defeated for being just there!!! Few examples:
> 
> Only 17 Turkic horsemen took over Bengal just by riding through!!! The King simply fled away
> Only 200 British soldiers subdued 70K of Nawab’s army!!! Due to a conspiracy, they just looked on without putting a fight!
> The Burmese are now having a free ride inside BD of 160m folks!!! Their AF checked into them for 72 hours while entire BD military remained paralyzed!!!
> Now, compared to the above, 40-50K Pak forces indeed did a damn good job for 9 months being surrounded by India on 3 sides with 100K+ insurgents from both IA and BD folks active inside!!!



So much butt-hurt at BD along with the Tamil weirdo.

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## Mage

Turoshker Pagol.

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## Sine Nomine

Homo Sapiens said:


> to tease Pakistan for the next thousand years.


Not Pakistan but Muslims.

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## Homo Sapiens

Mage said:


> Turoshker Pagol.


Illegal Pakistani in Turkey. Pakistanis are one of the biggest illegal group in Turkey.

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## Homo Sapiens

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Only 17 Turkic horsemen took over Bengal just by riding through!!! The King simply fled away


This is a myth that only 17 horsemen took over Bengal. Bakhtiyar Khilji attacked with a large forces, but according to legend, he run horse so fast that only 18 horsemen could accompany him. But bulk of his force was just behind him. By that attack, he only took over a small portion of West Bengal in 1203 AD. He could not took all of Bengal. King Lakshman Sen continue to reign from his capital Bikrampur in East Bengal. Entire Bengal came under Muslim rules by 1230 AD on a gradual basis. Long after Bakhtiyar Khilji and Lakshman Sen's death.


Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Only 200 British soldiers subdued 70K of Nawab’s army!!! Due to a conspiracy, they just looked on without putting a fight!


Another lie. Nawab's army was 50,000 strong. But bulk of it was under the command of Mir Jafar. British had 1600 European soldiers and 3000 Indian sepoy working for the British. Main army under Mir Jafar defected on the side of British as soon as war started. Conspirators also damaged cannon gun powder of Nawab's army. It was a sham war whose fate was sealed before it's start. Such small British forces could never dared to engage in war against Nawab if they could not managed Mir Jafar and other powerful conspirators.


Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> The Burmese are now having a free ride inside BD of 160m folks!!! Their AF checked into them for 72 hours while entire BD military remained paralyzed!!!


They were not paralyzed, but were put on hold for strategic reasons. And AF is an exaggeration, a surveillance helicopter sneaked across boundary few hundred meters, when warned, fled to myanmar side rapidly. These incidence happened a number of times during the height of Rohingya crisis. Clearly a crude attempt by burmese to provoke Bangladesh into a clash and divert the attention from atrocities against refugees. Question is, why should we fall in such a crude burmese trap? We are not reactive animal dictated by raw impulse. These same burmese got tough response from Bangladesh army when they tried to infiltrate into disputed sea areas in 2008 and was forced to withdraw.


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## bluesky

*President, PM pay tributes to martyred intellectuals*
Published: December 14, 2018 10:08:01 | Updated: December 14, 2018 15:02:57





President Abdul Hamid and Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina pay tributes to the martyred intellectuals on the occasion of the Martyred Intellectuals Day on Friday, December 14, 2018. Photo: PID

President Abdul Hamid and Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina on Friday paid rich tributes to the martyred intellectuals on the occasion of the Martyred Intellectuals Day.

First the President and then the Prime Minister placed wreath at the Martyred Intellectuals Memorial at Mirpur in Dhaka city.

They stood there in solemn silence for a while as a mark of profound respect to the memories of the illustrious sons of the soil.

A smartly-turned out contingent of the Bangladesh Armed Forces gave a state salute, while the the last post was played on a bugle at that time.

The chiefs of the three services were present.

Flanked by the party’s central leaders, Sheikh Hasina, also the President of Bangladesh Awami League, laid another wreath at the Martyred Intellectuals Memorial as the party chief.

Road Transport and Bridges Minister and AL General Secretary Obaidul Quader, Liberation War Affairs Minister AKM Mozammel Huq and Mayor of Dhaka South City Corporation Mohammad Sayeed Khokon, amongst others, were present.

Later, the Prime Minister talked to the war-wounded freedom fighters and the family members of the martyred intellectuals and enquired about their wellbeing.

Sheikh Hasina then went to Dhanmondi in the capital and placed a wreath at the portrait of Father of Nation Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman in front of Bangabandhu Memorial Museum marking the Martyred Intellectuals Day.

After placing the wreath, she stood there for some time as a mark of profound respect to the memory of Bangabandhu, the architect of independence of Bangladesh.

Flanked by her party central leaders, Sheikh Hasina laid another wreath at the portrait of the Father of the Nation as the party chief, UNB reported.

On the night of December 14, 1971, over 200 intellectuals, including educationists, journalists, litterateurs, writers, physicians, scientists, lawyers, artists, philosophers and political thinkers, had been picked up in Dhaka by the Pakistani occupation forces, aided by their local collaborators.

The intellectuals were taken blindfold to torture cells in Mirpur, Mohammadpur, Nakhalpara, Rajarbagh and other locations in different parts of the city and later executed en masse at different killing grounds, most notably Rayerbazar and Mirpur.

Since then, the day has been being observed as the Martyred Intellectuals Day.



Homo Sapiens said:


> This is a myth that only 17 horsemen took over Bengal. Bakhtiyar Khilji attacked with a large forces, but according to legend, *he run horse so fast that only 18 horsemen could accompany him.* But bulk of his force was just behind him. By that attack, *he only took over a small portion of West Bengal* in 1203 AD.* He could not took all of Bengal.* King Lakshman Sen continue to reign from his capital Bikrampur in East Bengal. Entire Bengal came under Muslim rules by 1230 AD on a gradual basis. Long after Bakhtiyar Khilji and Lakshman Sen's death.


You are such an ignorant person on history that I feel you are still a kindergarten kid, stupid! Learn to become an adult and study thse histroriy books which have been written by the educated adults and not by the Banglapedia historians or @Top Cat. 

At least you are better than @Billal. He wrote once that Bengali and Sanskrit are the twin sisters born out of the same mother. PDF has been infested with people with superficial knowledge. Very sad!! Stupid, was there such an entity (a Province or a country) called *W*est *B*engal at that time or even before 1947? It is a loose term. So, when you denote it with *W*, it becomes a separate entity. 

Oh, I remember, you are that stupid who also wrote that the Bengalis were the older habitat in the CHT even before the Chakma or other Adibashis. You are such a shameless stupid, I just cannot believe the way you falsify history. Bloody m*nkey Awami League activist!!

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## Buddhistforlife

bluesky said:


> *President, PM pay tributes to martyred intellectuals*
> Published: December 14, 2018 10:08:01 | Updated: December 14, 2018 15:02:57
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Abdul Hamid and Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina pay tributes to the martyred intellectuals on the occasion of the Martyred Intellectuals Day on Friday, December 14, 2018. Photo: PID
> 
> President Abdul Hamid and Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina on Friday paid rich tributes to the martyred intellectuals on the occasion of the Martyred Intellectuals Day.
> 
> First the President and then the Prime Minister placed wreath at the Martyred Intellectuals Memorial at Mirpur in Dhaka city.
> 
> They stood there in solemn silence for a while as a mark of profound respect to the memories of the illustrious sons of the soil.
> 
> A smartly-turned out contingent of the Bangladesh Armed Forces gave a state salute, while the the last post was played on a bugle at that time.
> 
> The chiefs of the three services were present.
> 
> Flanked by the party’s central leaders, Sheikh Hasina, also the President of Bangladesh Awami League, laid another wreath at the Martyred Intellectuals Memorial as the party chief.
> 
> Road Transport and Bridges Minister and AL General Secretary Obaidul Quader, Liberation War Affairs Minister AKM Mozammel Huq and Mayor of Dhaka South City Corporation Mohammad Sayeed Khokon, amongst others, were present.
> 
> Later, the Prime Minister talked to the war-wounded freedom fighters and the family members of the martyred intellectuals and enquired about their wellbeing.
> 
> Sheikh Hasina then went to Dhanmondi in the capital and placed a wreath at the portrait of Father of Nation Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman in front of Bangabandhu Memorial Museum marking the Martyred Intellectuals Day.
> 
> After placing the wreath, she stood there for some time as a mark of profound respect to the memory of Bangabandhu, the architect of independence of Bangladesh.
> 
> Flanked by her party central leaders, Sheikh Hasina laid another wreath at the portrait of the Father of the Nation as the party chief, UNB reported.
> 
> On the night of December 14, 1971, over 200 intellectuals, including educationists, journalists, litterateurs, writers, physicians, scientists, lawyers, artists, philosophers and political thinkers, had been picked up in Dhaka by the Pakistani occupation forces, aided by their local collaborators.
> 
> The intellectuals were taken blindfold to torture cells in Mirpur, Mohammadpur, Nakhalpara, Rajarbagh and other locations in different parts of the city and later executed en masse at different killing grounds, most notably Rayerbazar and Mirpur.
> 
> Since then, the day has been being observed as the Martyred Intellectuals Day.
> 
> 
> You are such an ignorant person on history that I feel you are still a kindergarten kid, stupid! Learn to become an adult and study thse histroriy books which have been written by the educated adults and not by the Banglapedia historians or @Top Cat.
> 
> At least you are better than @Billal. He wrote once that Bengali and Sanskrit are the twin sisters born out of the same mother. PDF has been infested with people with superficial knowledge. Very sad!! Stupid, was there such an entity (a Province or a country) called *W*est *B*engal at that time or even before 1947? It is a loose term. So, when you denote it with *W*, it becomes a separate entity.
> 
> Oh, I remember, you are that stupid who also wrote that the Bengalis were the older habitat in the CHT even before the Chakma or other Adibashis. You are such a shameless stupid, I just cannot believe the way you falsify history. Bloody m*nkey Awami League activist!!


Yes the Chakma buddhists are the indigenious people in the Chittagong hill tracts. There were no Muslims in the hill tracts before 1975 however Ziaur Rahman brought millions of illegal muslims from other parts of Bangladesh in the hill tracts. The Chakma Buddhists consisted of 95% of the total population of the hill tracts in 1975 however now they are 60% in cht because the BD army and muslims grabbed their lands, torched their homes, forcefully made them flee their own country. 

The tribal Buddhist population have no rights in Bangladesh and they are the most unpriviledged people. The tribals have no access to education, jobs and most of them are settled in the hills where they only can work in fields.

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## El Sidd

Rakhine State emerges


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## Mage

Buddhistforlife said:


> Yes the Chakma buddhists are the indigenious people in the Chittagong hill tracts. There were no Muslims in the hill tracts before 1975 however Ziaur Rahman brought millions of illegal muslims from other parts of Bangladesh in the hill tracts. The Chakma Buddhists consisted of 95% of the total population of the hill tracts in 1975 however now they are 60% in cht because the BD army and muslims grabbed their lands, torched their homes, forcefully made them flee their own country.
> 
> The tribal Buddhist population have no rights in Bangladesh and they are the most unpriviledged people. The tribals have no access to education, jobs and most of them are settled in the hills where they only can work in fields.


Nice fiction.

Tribals enjoy quota is govt service...Tribals also enter Bangladesh Military. Heck, govt now even have takes measures to give them education in their language....despite being less than 1% of the total population. 

There have been some unrest in CHT before. But now things are fine. And will remain fine for the foreseeable future.

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## bluesky

Buddhistforlife said:


> Yes the Chakma buddhists are the indigenious people in the Chittagong hill tracts. There were no Muslims in the hill tracts before 1975 however Ziaur Rahman brought millions of illegal muslims from other parts of Bangladesh in the hill tracts. The Chakma Buddhists consisted of 95% of the total population of the hill tracts in 1975 however now they are 60% in cht because the BD army and muslims grabbed their lands, torched their homes, forcefully made them flee their own country.
> 
> The tribal Buddhist population have no rights in Bangladesh and they are the most unpriviledged people. The tribals have no access to education, jobs and most of them are settled in the hills where they only can work in fields.


Yes, you are completely correct. But, that idiotic traitor @Homo Sapiens from BAL claimed there were more Muslims in the CHT than the Paharias which I refuted off course. This @Homo Sapiens claim himself a great historian and someday he may claim he wrote Taz-ul-Nasiri, although at the moment he does not even know such a history book exists and talk about 17 horsemen who suddenly arrived in Bengal in 1203 from a 4000 km distant Afghanistan as if on a jet plane.

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## Buddhistforlife

Homo Sapiens said:


> This is a myth that only 17 horsemen took over Bengal. Bakhtiyar Khilji attacked with a large forces, but according to legend, he run horse so fast that only 18 horsemen could accompany him. But bulk of his force was just behind him. By that attack, he only took over a small portion of West Bengal in 1203 AD. He could not took all of Bengal. King Lakshman Sen continue to reign from his capital Bikrampur in East Bengal. Entire Bengal came under Muslim rules by 1230 AD on a gradual basis. Long after Bakhtiyar Khilji and Lakshman Sen's death.
> 
> Another lie. Nawab's army was 50,000 strong. But bulk of it was under the command of Mir Jafar. British had 1600 European soldiers and 3000 Indian sepoy working for the British. Main army under Mir Jafar defected on the side of British as soon as war started. Conspirators also damaged cannon gun powder of Nawab's army. It was a sham war whose fate was sealed before it's start. Such small British forces could never dared to engage in war against Nawab if they could not managed Mir Jafar and other powerful conspirators.
> 
> They were not paralyzed, but were put on hold for strategic reasons. And AF is an exaggeration, a surveillance helicopter sneaked across boundary few hundred meters, when warned, fled to myanmar side rapidly. These incidence happened a number of times during the height of Rohingya crisis. Clearly a crude attempt by burmese to provoke Bangladesh into a clash and divert the attention from atrocities against refugees. Question is, why should we fall in such a crude burmese trap? We are not reactive animal dictated by raw impulse. These same burmese got tough response from Bangladesh army when they tried to infiltrate into disputed sea areas in 2008 and was forced to withdraw.


You can find similar incidences in other Indian stories. I have read history of Babur and Hindu king Shahaji Bhosle and they are known for killing a tiger by bare hands. I really doubt these stories and their credibility.



Homo Sapiens said:


> This is a myth that only 17 horsemen took over Bengal. Bakhtiyar Khilji attacked with a large forces, but according to legend, he run horse so fast that only 18 horsemen could accompany him. But bulk of his force was just behind him. By that attack, he only took over a small portion of West Bengal in 1203 AD. He could not took all of Bengal. King Lakshman Sen continue to reign from his capital Bikrampur in East Bengal. Entire Bengal came under Muslim rules by 1230 AD on a gradual basis. Long after Bakhtiyar Khilji and Lakshman Sen's death.
> 
> Another lie. Nawab's army was 50,000 strong. But bulk of it was under the command of Mir Jafar. British had 1600 European soldiers and 3000 Indian sepoy working for the British. Main army under Mir Jafar defected on the side of British as soon as war started. Conspirators also damaged cannon gun powder of Nawab's army. It was a sham war whose fate was sealed before it's start. Such small British forces could never dared to engage in war against Nawab if they could not managed Mir Jafar and other powerful conspirators.
> 
> They were not paralyzed, but were put on hold for strategic reasons. And AF is an exaggeration, a surveillance helicopter sneaked across boundary few hundred meters, when warned, fled to myanmar side rapidly. These incidence happened a number of times during the height of Rohingya crisis. Clearly a crude attempt by burmese to provoke Bangladesh into a clash and divert the attention from atrocities against refugees. Question is, why should we fall in such a crude burmese trap? We are not reactive animal dictated by raw impulse. These same burmese got tough response from Bangladesh army when they tried to infiltrate into disputed sea areas in 2008 and was forced to withdraw.


Lol the burmese didnt lose but you got your *** saved by India and the West.


----------



## Homo Sapiens

Buddhistforlife said:


> Yes the Chakma buddhists are the indigenious people in the Chittagong hill tracts. There were no Muslims in the hill tracts before 1975 however Ziaur Rahman brought millions of illegal muslims from other parts of Bangladesh in the hill tracts. The Chakma Buddhists consisted of 95% of the total population of the hill tracts in 1975 however now they are 60% in cht because the BD army and muslims grabbed their lands, torched their homes, forcefully made them flee their own country.
> 
> The tribal Buddhist population have no rights in Bangladesh and they are the most unpriviledged people. The tribals have no access to education, jobs and most of them are settled in the hills where they only can work in fields.


First of all, CHT is part of Bangladesh like any other part. So a Bangladeshi moving from other district to CHT can never become illegal.

Chakmas are the minority among the tribal population in CHT. Albeit the largest group. So it is a pure lie to claim Chakma are 95 percent of tribal population.

All the tribals in CHT constitute 50 percent of CHT population. So there is no way Chakma's are 60 percent of population.

Before Ziaur Rahman's resettlement program, Bengalis were 28 percent of CHT population. You should check credible statistics before claiming' there was no muslim before 1975'. CHT was lightly populated, so President Zia resettle some land less people from other districts. There were also strategic reason. To increase loyal population in the border areas of CHT. Because you tribals then started armed rebellion against Bangladesh with the help of Indian RAW. So Ziaur Rahman did what any patriotic Bangladesh president would have done. You tribals still have plenty of place to settle down in CHT and you are welcome to reside any part of Bangladesh besides CHT. No part of Bangladesh should be exclusively reserved for any group of people. Plain and simple. You only have legitimate grievance only if any tribal forcefully evicted by Bengali people in CHT. In that incidences, it should be solved case by case basis.

Another bullshit is that tribal people have no rights in BD. You tribals are just 1% of BD population, enjoying 5% quota in govt. jobs. Have special reservation in administration in CHT. Enjoying over representation in many important posts and businesses in BD. It is actually Bengali people in CHT who are discriminated, poorer than Chakma, less educated. You Chakma can start business in CHT without paying govt. any tax but not the Bengali residing there. There are many such privilege you are enjoying. Compare this with the situation of Rohingyas. You Chakma people came to CHT in same time period when Rohingyas started living in Arakan. But see the contrast. You should be thankful living in Bangladesh.

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## Hasan89

UKBengali said:


> Says the forum weirdo that hangs around BD forum 24/7.



LOL that pwneds the inferior Tamil who licks Bangladeshis *** for attention all day on bd section. I bet other Indians here cringe over Nilgiri and feel ashamed he is such a low life who spends all his time and days on BD section on this forum licking their *** like a kutta from Kalkutta

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## Destranator

Hasan89 said:


> LOL that pwneds the inferior Tamil who licks Bangladeshis *** for attention all day on bd section. I bet other Indians here cringe over Nilgiri and feel ashamed he is such a low life who spends all his time and days on BD section on this forum licking their *** like a kutta from Kalkutta



Dude the moment you get racial you lose your high ground. Your comments are extremely distasteful and unwarranted.

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## Nilgiri

Al-Ansar said:


> Dude the moment you get racial you lose your high ground. Your comments are extremely distasteful and unwarranted.



Its ok, he is perma banned now. Problem solved for time being.


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## Mage

Retired Troll said:


> Rakhine State emerges


In Baluchistan





You should watch it too, Rakhine Baluch @DESERT FIGHTER
Your dream cumming true.

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## El Sidd

Mage said:


> In Baluchistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should watch it too, Rakhine Baluch @DESERT FIGHTER
> Your dream cumming true.



Let anyone try i say


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## Mage

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> That the best you got? Maggot faggot.


Can't reply so switch to personal attack....

You know deep down you want Rakhine state in Baluchistan as well.



Retired Troll said:


> Let anyone try i say


This guy is your pm, el.


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## El Sidd

Mage said:


> This guy is your pm, el.



He can try too


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Mage said:


> Can't reply so switch to personal attack....
> 
> You know deep down you want Rakhine state in Baluchistan as well.


I wont mind settling Persecuted people from anywhere.

Im not a c£nt like yourself who doesn’t care even about his own kin in Arakan.

Infact here in Karachi we have over .6 million Rohingya and over 2.6 million Bangladeshis.

One can tolerate the rohingya (although they are also a problematic bunch) but bangladeshis? Meh, if i had a say in the situation, I would have thrown your kind into the arabian and made em swim to bangla land.

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## Mage

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I wont mind settling Persecuted people from anywhere.
> 
> Im not a c£nt like yourself who doesn’t care even about his own kin in Arakan.
> 
> Infact here in Karachi we have over .6 million Rohingya and over 2.6 million Bangladeshis.
> 
> One can tolerate the rohingya (although they are also a problematic bunch) but bangladeshis? Meh, if i had a say in the situation, I would have thrown your kind into the arabian and made em swim to bangla land.


Throw them...


Retired Troll said:


> He can try too


I don't need to. It will happen naturally.


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## Buddhistforlife

Hasan89 said:


> LOL that pwneds the inferior Tamil who licks Bangladeshis *** for attention all day on bd section. I bet other Indians here cringe over Nilgiri and feel ashamed he is such a low life who spends all his time and days on BD section on this forum licking their *** like a kutta from Kalkutta


Please refrain from using racial slurs....


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## Nilgiri

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I wont mind settling Persecuted people from anywhere.
> 
> Im not a c£nt like yourself who doesn’t care even about his own kin in Arakan.
> 
> Infact here in Karachi we have over .6 million Rohingya and over 2.6 million Bangladeshis.
> 
> One can tolerate the rohingya (although they are also a problematic bunch) but bangladeshis? Meh, if i had a say in the situation, I would have thrown your kind into the arabian and made em swim to bangla land.



@django Kudos! The message and call for action is as strong as ever! @Aung Zaya



Buddhistforlife said:


> Please refrain from using racial slurs....



He has been banned permanently. So no need to quote him and tell him stuff he been told multiple times and chose to ignore.

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## Mage

CHACHA"G" said:


> Why cant you blame declining JUT industries ………… Why cant you blame your land mass , , , , Your local Politicians ……. Can you check how many politicians of East Pakistan become billionaire before 71 ??? Your local industrialist of that time …….. Your local Landlord elite of that time...………. Why you blame every thing on west part which have 4 Provinces and AJK and GB and FATA...…



I take it to this thread...since you guys want positivity in that thread, no matter how hollow it is.

So what magic happened to Bangladesh after 1971? How are we producing more than you guys now? Jute went down. We started with a destroyed country with 10$ forex. 

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/NV.IND.TOTL.CD/rankings

Heck our agricultural production is also higher than you, if you check FAO data.

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## CHACHA"G"

Mage said:


> I take it to this thread...since you guys want positivity in that thread, no matter how hollow it is.
> 
> So what magic happened to Bangladesh after 1971? How are we producing more than you guys now? Jute went down. We started with a destroyed country with 10$ forex.
> 
> https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/NV.IND.TOTL.CD/rankings
> 
> Heck our agricultural production is also higher than you, if you check FAO data.


dam man why cant you answer my questions first ?????? Are those questions that hard to answer?
And on Pakistan ……… Corrupt Political elite destroyed our economy...…..
You asked me about wealth part >>>>>>>> Now tell me after independence how wealthy a Bengali citizen is ??? What about your prosperity , equality and distribution of funds ??????


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## Mage

CHACHA"G" said:


> dam man why cant you answer my questions first ?????? Are those questions that hard to answer?
> And on Pakistan ……… Corrupt Political elite destroyed our economy...…..
> You asked me about wealth part >>>>>>>> Now tell me after independence how wealthy a Bengali citizen is ??? What about your prosperity ??????


Nominal per capita income is higher in Bangladesh. PPP catching up.

Exports are reaching 2x of Pakistan...forex would be like 3-8 times of Pakistan as it's a new figure every week for Pak forex. 
Bangladesh's national budget(In USD) higher than Pakistan. And you were giving us less than 30% of total? Good grief.

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## CHACHA"G"

Mage said:


> Nominal per capita income is higher in Bangladesh. PPP catching up.
> 
> Exports are reaching 2x of Pakistan...forex would be like 3-8 times of Pakistan as it's a new figure every week for Pak forex.
> Bangladesh's national budget(In USD) higher than Pakistan. And you were giving us less than 30% of total? Good grief.


again chit chat...………………….. In reality Bangladeshis are even more poorer then they were with Pakistan because your number grows too …….. 
After all your propaganda ………… I thought every bangali own 25 kg Gold , 1(5 bed with attach bath) House , 2 cars , and at least 1 servant.... 
But story is different...………………………………………… 
Story was different from day one (1947) even before day 1.


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## Mage

CHACHA"G" said:


> again chit chat...………………….. In reality Bangladeshis are even more poorer then they were with Pakistan because your number grows too ……..
> After all your propaganda ………… I thought every bangali own 25 kg Gold , 1(5 bed with attach bath) House , 2 cars , and at least 1 servant....
> But story is different...…………………………………………
> Story was different from day one (1947) even before day 1.


Believe whatever comforts you.

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## CHACHA"G"

Mage said:


> Believe whatever comforts you.


And you keep up with your propaganda ………. I believe what is reality ……….. You believe what traitors told you …..
Work on poor in your country ……. You got Bangladesh for them...……. and many million still poor.. 
Good day...……

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## Nilgiri

Mage said:


> Nominal per capita income is higher in Bangladesh. PPP catching up.
> 
> Exports are reaching 2x of Pakistan...forex would be like 3-8 times of Pakistan as it's a new figure every week for Pak forex.
> Bangladesh's national budget(In USD) higher than Pakistan. And you were giving us less than 30% of total? Good grief.



Where is this conversation originating and what the F are you on about?

Total govt expenditure for 2017:

BD = 39 billion USD
Pakistan = 59 billion USD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_budget

(the disparity increases even more when Pakistan higher PPP multiplier accounted for).

The budget share between the wings pre-71 was roughly 40/60 (in favour of the west)...not "under 30".

The difference accounts for maybe 1% of GDP transfer (per year) from East to West wing....and thats likely covered by the institutional development Eastern wing got in return.

@DESERT FIGHTER @django @Game.Invade @Desert Fox @Psychic

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## CHACHA"G"

Nilgiri said:


> Where is this conversation originating and what the F are you on about?
> 
> Total govt expenditure for 2017:
> 
> BD = 39 billion USD
> Pakistan = 59 billion USD
> 
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2056.html
> 
> (the disparity increases even more when Pakistan higher PPP multiplier accounted for).
> 
> The budget share between the wings pre-71 was roughly 40/60 (in favour of the west)...not "under 30".
> 
> The difference accounts for maybe 1% of GDP transfer (per year) from East to West wing....and thats likely covered by the institutional development Eastern wing got in return.
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER @django @Game.Invade @Desert Fox @Psychic


It is hard for him to understand East was 1 province with 30%(according to him ) to 40 % shear in total..... But. can you keep sensible with them??? 
I just asked him one more thing now they are independent country and they were super rich …… how much gold average Bdeshi owns is it 20kg or 30kg lol...…. They are independent and they have all their wealth

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## Mage

CHACHA"G" said:


> And you keep up with your propaganda ………. I believe what is reality ……….. You believe what traitors told you …..
> Work on poor in your country ……. You got Bangladesh for them...……. and many million still poor..
> Good day...……


We are poor. And no point denying that. And we will work on it to make it better. We have already made it better than the country we separated from. But that's hardly anything. We will do much better in the coming decades.


Nilgiri said:


> Where is this conversation originating and what the F are you on about?
> 
> Total govt expenditure for 2017:
> 
> BD = 39 billion USD
> Pakistan = 59 billion USD
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_budget
> 
> (the disparity increases even more when Pakistan higher PPP multiplier accounted for).
> 
> The budget share between the wings pre-71 was roughly 40/60 (in favour of the west)...not "under 30".
> 
> The difference accounts for maybe 1% of GDP transfer (per year) from East to West wing....and thats likely covered by the institutional development Eastern wing got in return.
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER @django @Game.Invade @Desert Fox @Psychic


Last national budget of Pakistan was worth little less than 6 trillion pkr. Equivalent to 43 Bn USD
Last national budget of Bangladesh was like 4.6 trillion BDT. Equivalent to 55 Bn USD.

Taken from articles related to national budget(2018) of the countries. Converted to USD by me.

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> Where is this conversation originating and what the F are you on about?
> 
> Total govt expenditure for 2017:
> 
> BD = 39 billion USD
> Pakistan = 59 billion USD
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_budget
> 
> (the disparity increases even more when Pakistan higher PPP multiplier accounted for).
> 
> The budget share between the wings pre-71 was roughly 40/60 (in favour of the west)...not "under 30".
> 
> The difference accounts for maybe 1% of GDP transfer (per year) from East to West wing....and thats likely covered by the institutional development Eastern wing got in return.




Butt-hurt......

Who gives a rat's *** about expenditure as BD spends a lesser amount of it's own GDP than Pakistan.
That proportion of GDP not spent by the government still resides within BD to be spent privately.
During 1947-1971, Pakistan just helped itself to all of BD revenues and then gave back a fraction.


1% GDP transfer? 
Institutional development?


Gone full retard butt-hurt here as you are making up crap as usual?

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## django

Mage said:


> *We are poor. And no point denying that. And we will work on it to make it better.*


Mr Magoo CRY me a "GANGA"

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## CHACHA"G"

UKBengali said:


> Butt-hurt......
> 
> Who gives a rat's *** about expenditure as BD spends a lesser amount of it's own GDP than Pakistan.
> That proportion of GDP not spent by the government still resides within BD to be spent privately.
> During 1947-1971, Pakistan just helped itself to all of BD revenues and then gave back a fraction.
> 
> 
> 1% GDP transfer?
> Institutional development?
> 
> 
> Gone full retard butt-hurt here as you are making up crap as usual?


@Nilgiri lol what I told you ,,,,,,,,,,, @django , lol I got negative rating from @Dubious when I was countering bangali propaganda...…… 
It is best to leave them with there believes ………… But we cannot do that …… 
@Imran Khan 
@UKBengali , sir you are supper rich and we are supper power ,,,,,,,, you are superpower and now and you will be super dupper power in 2030 ………… You shear border with India , not with us , so It is in-between you and India.

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## Mage

UKBengali said:


> Butt-hurt......
> 
> Who gives a rat's *** about expenditure as BD spends a lesser amount of it's own GDP than Pakistan.
> That proportion of GDP not spent by the government still resides within BD to be spent privately.
> During 1947-1971, Pakistan just helped itself to all of BD revenues and then gave back a fraction.
> 
> 
> 1% GDP transfer?
> Institutional development?
> 
> 
> Gone full retard butt-hurt here as you are making up crap as usual?


I had to agree with him after a long time @Nilgiri 


django said:


> Mr Magoo CRY me a "GANGA"


It's you guys are crying actually. Someone told me about River Ravi today...Cry me a Ravi, Jangu. Let me bather in your tears.

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## django

Mage said:


> *It's you guys are crying actually*. Someone told me about River Ravi today...Cry me a Ravi, Jangu. Let me bather in your tears.

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## Nilgiri

Mage said:


> Last national budget of Pakistan was worth little less than 6 trillion pkr. Equivalent to 43 Bn USD
> Last national budget of Bangladesh was like 4.6 trillion BDT. Equivalent to 55 Bn USD.
> 
> Taken from articles related to national budget(2018) of the countries. Converted to USD by me.



Yeah you are gonna have to give sources buddy. Remember there is federal + local budget that makes up a total (and carryover). Hence why its best to look to IMF for the actual realised (apples to apples) standard.


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## Mage

Chacha...see this
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Bangladesh-overtook-Pakistan-economically
https://www.quora.com/Is-Bangladesh...er-the-PKR-has-lost-more-than-25-of-its-value
See what even Pakistanis(Sane and level headed Pakistanis not hyper nationalist chest thumping one's) think.



Nilgiri said:


> Yeah you are gonna have to give sources buddy. Remember there is federal + local budget that makes up a total (and carryover). Hence why its best to look to IMF for the actual realised standard.


Pakistan:https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/310231-here-is-all-you-want-to-know-about-budget-2018-19
Bangladesh:https://www.thedailystar.net/bangla...tional-budget-for-2018-19-fiscal-year-1596727

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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> Butt-hurt......
> 
> Who gives a rat's *** about expenditure as BD spends a lesser amount of it's own GDP than Pakistan.
> That proportion of GDP not spent by the government still resides within BD to be spent privately.
> During 1947-1971, Pakistan just helped itself to all of BD revenues and then gave back a fraction.
> 
> 
> 1% GDP transfer?
> Institutional development?
> 
> 
> Gone full retard butt-hurt here as you are making up crap as usual?



You ran away like a mukti derptard the last time (its essentially why you needed India to do the job in the end), and you will this time again:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-...desh-armed-forces.548467/page-5#post-10326411

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...er-than-pakistans.536089/page-7#post-10137373

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/is-s...a-one-party-state.551978/page-8#post-10429109

@BHarwana you should read these thoroughly. Good job starting that thread, back you 100% on this one biraader.

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## Mage

django said:


>


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## Nilgiri

Mage said:


> Chacha...see this
> https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Bangladesh-overtook-Pakistan-economically
> https://www.quora.com/Is-Bangladesh...er-the-PKR-has-lost-more-than-25-of-its-value
> See what even Pakistanis(Sane and level headed Pakistanis not hyper nationalist chest thumping one's) think.
> 
> 
> Pakistan:https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/310231-here-is-all-you-want-to-know-about-budget-2018-19
> Bangladesh:https://www.thedailystar.net/bangla...tional-budget-for-2018-19-fiscal-year-1596727



Federal and national (total) budgets are clearly different standards to begin with. BD does not have provinces and states like India and Pakistan.

Now how about we actually wait for the year to complete to see what the ACTUAL spending turns out to be?

HINT HINT: IMF data compared to 2017, 2016 articles etc.

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## Mage

Nilgiri said:


> Now how about we actually wait for the year to complete to see what the ACTUAL spending turns out to be?


Spending is not total budget.


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## Nilgiri

CHACHA"G" said:


> @Nilgiri lol what I told you ,,,,,,,,,,, @django , lol I got negative rating from @Dubious when I was countering bangali propaganda...……
> It is best to leave them with there believes ………… But we cannot do that ……
> @Imran Khan
> @UKBengali , sir you are supper rich and we are supper power ,,,,,,,, you are superpower and now and you will be super dupper power in 2030 ………… You shear border with India , not with us , so It is in-between you and India.



@Desert Fox check it out....what have we been saying all along?



Mage said:


> Spending is not total budget.



Good....we are moving along nicely. *pat pat*

Now can you tell me what a budget is? And what realised spending is?

And what matters in the end to the economy?


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## Mage

Nilgiri said:


> @Desert Fox check it out....what have we been saying all along?


Laptop charge low...gonna continue later, if I feel like it.

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## Nilgiri

Mage said:


> I had to agree with him after a long time @Nilgiri



Poor you! Guess you will both have to be wrong then.


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## BHarwana

Nilgiri said:


> You ran away like a mukti derptard the last time (its essentially why you needed India to do the job in the end), and you will this time again:
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-...desh-armed-forces.548467/page-5#post-10326411
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...er-than-pakistans.536089/page-7#post-10137373
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/is-s...a-one-party-state.551978/page-8#post-10429109
> 
> @BHarwana you should read these thoroughly. Good job starting that thread, back you 100% on this one biraader.



I am good bro enjoy you 1971. I am more interested in 2019.

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## Nilgiri

Mage said:


> Laptop charge low...gonna continue later, if I feel like it.



K cyu then...if you "feelz" like it  @hellfire



BHarwana said:


> I am good bro enjoy you 1971. I am more interested in 2019.



Thanks for posting those pictures and stuff in that thread tho, they were interesting!

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## BHarwana

Nilgiri said:


> K cyu then...if you "feelz" like it  @hellfire
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting those pictures and stuff in that thread tho, they were interesting!



You are welcome as always

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## Nilgiri

Its too bad that smart neutral posters like @Skies dont post anymore:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/is-s...a-one-party-state.551978/page-8#post-10429628

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> @Desert Fox check it out....what have we been saying all along?
> 
> 
> 
> Good....we are moving along nicely. *pat pat*
> 
> Now can you tell me what a budget is? And what realised spending is?
> 
> And what matters in the end to the economy?


Bro, this is why I don't even bother arguing with those who run this forum. 

These Bdeshis spew venom against Pakistan on this forum on a daily basis and have been allowed to get away with this and when Pakistanis respond in kind we get negative ratings, warnings or even outright banned. 

Clearly these pol vaulters enjoy a certain level of favoritism from the Mods, despite this being a Pakistani forum and these people coming here to talk trash about us. 

But if that's the case then we can strategize accordingly. No problem. 

@django @Psychic @CHACHA"G" @war&peace @PakSword

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Homo Sapiens said:


> This is a myth that only 17 horsemen took over Bengal. Bakhtiyar Khilji attacked with a large forces, but according to legend, he run horse so fast that only 18 horsemen could accompany him. But bulk of his force was just behind him. By that attack, he only took over a small portion of West Bengal in 1203 AD. He could not took all of Bengal. King Lakshman Sen continue to reign from his capital Bikrampur in East Bengal. Entire Bengal came under Muslim rules by 1230 AD on a gradual basis. Long after Bakhtiyar Khilji and Lakshman Sen's death.
> 
> Another lie. Nawab's army was 50,000 strong. But bulk of it was under the command of Mir Jafar. British had 1600 European soldiers and 3000 Indian sepoy working for the British. Main army under Mir Jafar defected on the side of British as soon as war started. Conspirators also damaged cannon gun powder of Nawab's army. It was a sham war whose fate was sealed before it's start. Such small British forces could never dared to engage in war against Nawab if they could not managed Mir Jafar and other powerful conspirators.
> 
> They were not paralyzed, but were put on hold for strategic reasons. And AF is an exaggeration, a surveillance helicopter sneaked across boundary few hundred meters, when warned, fled to myanmar side rapidly. These incidence happened a number of times during the height of Rohingya crisis. Clearly a crude attempt by burmese to provoke Bangladesh into a clash and divert the attention from atrocities against refugees. Question is, why should we fall in such a crude burmese trap? We are not reactive animal dictated by raw impulse. These same burmese got tough response from Bangladesh army when they tried to infiltrate into disputed sea areas in 2008 and was forced to withdraw.


I am impressed you're at least not satisfied with the events!!!! If there're more BD folks like you who knows one day you might buy some real fighters and man up to the Burmese......

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## Mage

Nilgiri said:


> Now can you tell me what a budget is? And what realised spending is?


BD's budget over the years is rapidly increasing. It's natural that the spending is gonna be higher than Pakistan if not this year then next or the one after that. But certainly BD's govt spending is not 1/3rd of Pakistan like it used to be in 47-71...

You can see yourself that BD's industrial production is higher than Pakistan. Look at this article too about stock market
https://www.dawn.com/news/1391689
Remember BD has two stock exchanges compared to one of Pakistan.

Pakistanis had a head start...as you can see the income gap was widening before...and like I said before When you guys in India and Pakistan were building fancy projects, our ministers had to lobby to foreign aid to run the country. Our central bank started with $10 reserves in 1972 when Pakista's central bank had more than $6b. Look at the forex of both countries now. Look at the exports of the countries now. Even income gap in PPP is decreasing every year between Bangladesh and Pakistan. Mind you, Pakistan of use GDDS process, tat you talk about. Not every woes are gonna disappear overnight. But all these certainly indicate that BD is racing ahead of Pakistan. Economically and socially. And it certainly indicates that East Pakistan was mismanaged by the military rulers of Pakistan before 71.

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## Nilgiri

Mage said:


> BD's budget over the years is rapidly increasing. It's natural that the spending is gonna be higher than Pakistan if not this year then next or the one after that.



Nope. Not from the trendline I am seeing. Anyways you seem to have avoided answering my question...but you are implying you now understand the difference and relevance 



Mage said:


> You can see yourself that BD's industrial production is higher than Pakistan.



Honestly don't care about sub-100 bn market cap + GDDS + high (even for developing world) corruption countries comparing to each other. There is so much treacherous inflation that BBS for example clearly launders into all its numbers, I simply dont care to even give any more attention to it. I will only ever treat what BD (Pakistan too) can project externally (in USD and global 3rd party reference terms) with any real seriousness.

*Become* something better for a good 10 - 20 years FIRST as recognised by 3rd party credible institutions...and then come back to STRONK TALK.



Mage said:


> When you guys in India and Pakistan were building fancy projects, our ministers had to lobby to foreign aid to run the country.



What "fancy" projects? List them.



Mage said:


> Our central bank started with $10 reserves in 1972 when Pakista's central bank had more than $6b. Look at the forex of both countries now. Look at the exports of the countries now. Even income gap in PPP is decreasing every year between Bangladesh and Pakistan.



There is no doubt Bangladesh is catching up to Pakistan (due to gross mismanagement in Pakistan)...but Pakistan could well soon have some aces up its sleeves to get back on track fiscally (and then economically)....and has much better ranking on corruption and transparency compared to Bangladesh to make some good hay on it.

Lets see.



Mage said:


> And it certainly indicates that East Pakistan was mismanaged by the military rulers of Pakistan before 71.



The mismanagement was not isolated to East Pakistan. Besides thats again focusing on the 5% over the 95% argument I was making in another thread (hope you read that one thoroughly):

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/west...economical-stand.592453/page-11#post-11034154

There was gross mismanagement across the board in South Asia and still there at high level today. BD is not some special victim or special victor (which are extremes BAL + propaganda revel in)....any particular assistance (from everyone else) u needed is/was more than given by the LDC program....so best to quit complaining and look ahead now and focus on actually getting better.....rather than trying to have last word on what is already a bad thing and really poor look (victim complex). Focus on winning stuff now, not on what you feel you have lost.

@Joe Shearer @hellfire @M. Sarmad @I.R.A @Marine Rouge @Atlas

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## I.R.A

@Nilgiri a new 600 cc and and an old 3200 cc (pardon my ignorance of HP) ......... the former is Bangladesh and latter is Pakistan. Is there any comparison?

In all these fictitious KPIs and numbers people (especially in this case Bangladeshis) tend to ignore and forget lot of other factors. Can Bangladesh compare itself with Pakistan that has every thing that Bangladesh has? ....... whereas the opposite ...... Does Bangladesh enjoy everything that Pakistan has? Pakistan's four provinces are representative of "Vast ocean belts, agriculture, resources and tourism" ........ Balochistan is nearly the size of Bangladesh or it may be bigger. Our foes and friends are nearly 7 to 10 times our size ....... who do they have to deal with? Burma.

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## Nilgiri

I.R.A said:


> 600 cc and and an old 3200 cc (pardon my ignorance of HP)



Hehe...yep engine displacement this is (not power i.e HP)...but I get what you are getting at friend.

Have a good one.

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## I.R.A

Nilgiri said:


> Hehe...yep engine displacement this is (not power i.e HP)...but I get what you are getting at friend.
> 
> Have a good one.



Merry Christmas and have fun.

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## Mage

Nilgiri said:


> Anyways you seem to have avoided answering my question


Googled it myself. Better to do a dignified retreat than to get destroyed in a head on battle.


Nilgiri said:


> Honestly don't care about sub-100 bn market cap + GDDS + high (even for developing world) corruption countries comparing to each other. There is so much treacherous inflation that BBS for example clearly launders into all its numbers, I simply dont care to even give any more attention to it. I will only ever treat what BD (Pakistan too) can project externally (in USD and global 3rd party reference terms) with any real seriousness.


Pakistan also use GDDS standard.


Nilgiri said:


> What "fancy" projects? List them.


When did you guys and Pakistanis started building large infrastructure projects? BD started on 5 years ago. Before that Kaptai Dam was one done in BD during Pakistan period. 


Nilgiri said:


> There is no doubt Bangladesh is catching up to Pakistan


Only means BD wasn't given enough attention. 


Nilgiri said:


> East Pakistan. Besides thats again focusing on the 5% over the 95% argument I was making in another thread (hope you read that one thoroughly):


I am saying, BD has this problem more than others during 47-71. BD still have this. But not that bad.

Another thing is bad relation of Pakistan and India perhaps harmed BD in that time.


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## Nilgiri

Mage said:


> Pakistan also use GDDS standard.



Right thats why I don't care to get into GDDS on GDDS comparisons in first place....unless there are some better external 3rd party qualifiers also present.

Its like arguing over the intricacies of placing 4th vs 5th in special olympics in some pre-event heat. Whoopdie doo.



Mage said:


> When did you guys and Pakistanis started building large infrastructure projects? BD started on 5 years ago. Before that Kaptai Dam was one done in BD during Pakistan period.



So large infrastructure projects are "fancy"? You have to explain what you mean by "fancy" I suppose.

Talking about just public spending (and ignoring the vastly greater force of private spending that was supressed everywhere as even a basic avenue for development) ....Dams are just one thing...BD had plenty of time and scope to invest into roads and many other basic mid or small sized public projects that give much high return on investment. It didn't do so adequately, it wasnt because of lack of money either....that is largely what politicians want you to believe so you have some scapegoats (that are not them) to blame.



Mage said:


> Only means BD wasn't given enough attention.



By whom? Concerning the 5% extraction for public spending by pre-71 country? Why is the 95% retention not deemed to be even part of the argument...that too 17 times more a factor? I'll tell you why, the issue there is a systemic generalised one that doesnt offer easy scapegoating.



Mage said:


> I am saying, BD has this problem more than others during 47-71. BD still have this. But not that bad.



So give me a number how much you think it has affected the entirety of Bangladesh today. i.e take snapshot right now and tell me what % you think is attributed to it. Let's see if you are even in the ballpark of reality.



Mage said:


> Another thing is bad relation of Pakistan and India perhaps harmed BD in that time.



Can't fight that all different ways. Your people chose to be part of Pakistan (knowing what the foundation of such can impact relations with country you are hewing it from, given nations certainly do not tear easy like piece of paper). In fact a number of you say that the very notion and idea of Pakistan was first given legitimacy in Eastern Bengal....not western punjab/sindh etc. So this argument doesn't really fly...because you chose this destiny....and you have to live with the consequences. It harmed everyone.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

In one December you lost in the East Pak, and in another December you won in Afghanistan....

Life's like this....

It's not important what you have become, it's important what you'll be....

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## Tps43

I.R.A said:


> Merry Christmas and have fun.


Bhai visit my profile post asap

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2194503167481368

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## Skies

Linking the following thread here as an important thread: 

*alternate views on 1971 *

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/alternate-views-on-1971.609570/

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## Bilal9

Posting this article as a neutral account of the causes leading up to the March 1971 Liberation War in Bangladesh, a piece by Sydney Schanberg, a Pulitzer prize-winning columnist. Please read carefully and discuss in an un-biased manner, though difficult it might be. We have to understand our historical viewpoints on both sides.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*The Bengalis and the Punjabis: Nation Split by Geography, Hate*


By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG DEC. 4, 1970




December 4, 1970, Page 10

“The British started the racial domination of Punjabi over Bengali,” a Bengali intellectual said with a sneer the other day. “They liked to talk paternally about the simple, straight forward, martial Punjabis, much better fellows than those nasty, scheming Bengalis.”

It is hard to imagine two races or regions any more different. They speak different languages—Urdu in the West, Bengali in the East—eat different foods—meat and grain in the West, fish and rice in the East— and have almost contradictory cultures, for the Bengalis are volatile and love politics and literature while the Punjabis are more stolid and prefer governing and soldiering.

The only thing the two wings have in common is their religion, Islam. That was the basis for the country's creation when it was decided that Hindus and Moslems could not live peacefully together and the subcontinent was carved into largely Hindu India and the two Moslem segments that make up Pakistan.

Glue May Lose Its Hold

The glue of Islam may finally be losing its hold. Many observers deem it a miracle that the two regions have stuck together so long and believe that their separation into independent nations is only a matter of time.

National elections will be held next Monday—the first full elections under adult franchise in Pakistan's history— and East Pakistan is pushing for a form of regional autonomy that many believe is only a prelude to secession.

There has recently been talk that the Government, under pressure from the Punjabi‐run army, is planning to postpone the elections, but fears of popular uprising in East Pakistan have apparently quashed any such intention.

The Bengalis would have regarded postponement as a flimsy pretext for continuing the martial ‐ law regime proclaimed last year, when Gen Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan became President, and with it the domination of the East by the West.

“If the elections are aborted,” warned Sheik Mujibur Rahman, leader of the Awami League, the East's key political party, “The people will owe it to the million who have died in the cyclone to make the supreme sacrifice of another million lives, if need be, so that we can live as a free people. We will no longer suffer the arbitrary rule of the bureaucrats, the capitalists and the feudal interests of West Pakistan.”

*Pakistan is that rare country where the majority region is the backward one. Although the East has 75 million people to the West's 55 million, the West has received the over whelming proportion of the development funds, factories, public‐works projects and defense facilities.*

*Prices are higher in East Pakistan, with rice and wheat twice as costly, although per capita income is at least 50 per cent lower. Six times as much electricity is produced in the West, four times as much foreign aid is spent there, three times as many imports are consumed there, twice as much development money is allocated there and nine times as much is spent on defense.*

The disparity is heightened, grimly, by the population pressure in East Pakistan, with 20 million more people than in the West in an area only a sixth as large. If the United States had the same density, it would have 4.5 billion people. Broken down, it is more than 1,300 per square mile on the average and as high as 2,100 in cultivated areas.

Perpetual Disaster Area

The pressure, matched only in some parts of Japan, Taiwan and Communist China, has forced the division of farms into smaller and less profitable plots and has pushed hundreds of thousands of the poorest peasants down into the fertile but dangerous lowlands and offshore islands of the Ganges Delta.

Eighty per cent of East Pakistan is less than 50 feet above sea level; the delta areas, even lower, are more vulnerable to storms and monsoon flooding.

East Pakistan is a perpetual disaster area, even in “normal” times—ravaged by cholera, typhoid and smallpox, by pests and filth, by raging unemployment and monsoon floods.

West Pakistan, benefiting from the so‐called green revolution in improved agricultural yields, is just about self‐sufficient in food while East Pakistan has an annual deficit of some 2.5 million tons. Experts say it could be five million tons by 1975, which could mean famine.

*As if internal problems were not enough, East Pakistan has been far more damaged than was the western sector by the partition, which virtually cut it off from neighboring West Bengal, now a state of India. All trade between them has been forbidden since the brief Indian ‐ Pakistani war over Kashmir in 1965.

The coal that used to come from West Bengal now comes from Communist China at as much as 10 times the cost. The only cement factory in East Pakistan, which used to get its limestone from India, must get it from less economical domestic deposits and pay five times the Indian price.*

*If the East Pakistanis win a measure of regional autonomy, they will immediately press to improve trade with India, one of the moves feared by the army and the hierarchy of the central Government in West Pakistan.*

*Generals Are Fearful

The Generals know that with greater provincial autonomy, the central Government's powers would be reduced and the vast military spending, some times as much as half of the budget, would be sharply cut. The army also knows that better relations with India would weaken the arguments for perpetuating the Kashmir dispute, which is one of the main reasons for the army's existence and has never aroused the Bengalis as it has the Punjabis, who live next to the disputed territory.*

Does the answer to all this woe lie in breaking Pakistan into two nations, as many militant Bengalis and even some Punjabis tired of the crisis now believe? But could East Pakistan, with its overwhelming problems, survive as a separate entity?

The fear of not surviving is what is keeping the dominant Bengali political forces from demanding secession right now.

“If we are the majority, we are Pakistan!” Sheik Mujibur thundered at a meeting with the foreign press last week.

Unfortunately for the Bengalis, the army and its powerful friends in West Pakistan do not quite see it that way.
__________________________________________________________________________

I will be posting more insightful articles soon from that era by Mr. Schanberg.

*East Pakistan Leader Voices a Secession Threat*


By SYDNEY SCHANBERG NOV. 27, 1970


DACCA, Pakistan, Nov. 26— Sheik Mujibur Rahman, East Pakistan's dominant political leader, warned the central government today that if the national elections were postponed, “I go for a total struggle” for secession of East Pakistan.

There have been reports that President Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan might once again postpone the elections for a National Assembly, which are scheduled for Dec. 7 and which would be the first full and free election based on adult franchise in Pakistan's 23‐year history.

The elections were originally scheduled for Oct. 5, but when monsoon floods disrupted much of East Pakistan, the President put them off, President Yahya, who returned this afternoon from a two‐day tour of the coastal area devastated by the cyclone and tidal wave of Nov. 13, would presumably declare a postponement this time on the ground that the damage, caused by the cyclone and tidal wave, in which the official death toll is over 175,000, had produced a national emergency.

This, however, probably would be regarded in East Pakistan as merely an excuse for continuing the present martial law regime, and, with it, West Pakistan domination over East Pakistan. The eastern and western sections of the country are separated by over a thousand miles of Indian territory.

The Bengalis of East Pakistan feel that the central Government, which is run from West Pakistan and is controlled by the Punjabis, did not press relief efforts after the cyclone and therefore proved its callousness and indifference to the plight of the poorer and more populous East.

Sheik Mujibur, charging “our own rulers” with “criminal negligence”, said, “A massive rescue and relief operation, if launched within 24 hours of the disaster, could have saved thousands of lives.”

Speaking at a chaotic news conference attended by many foreign correspondents, the 50 year‐old leader of the Awami league, who had just returned from a tour of the disaster area, said, “Only present experience has brought into sharp focus the basic truth that every Bengali has felt in his bones, that we have been treated so long as a colony and a market that we have been denied our birthrights as the free citizens of an independent state.”

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## Homo Sapiens

Bilal9 said:


> Posting this article as a neutral account of the causes leading up to the March 1971 Liberation War in Bangladesh, a piece by Sydney Schanberg, a Pulitzer prize-winning columnist. Please read carefully and discuss in an un-biased manner, though difficult it might be. We have to understand our historical viewpoints on both sides.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *The Bengalis and the Punjabis: Nation Split by Geography, Hate*
> 
> 
> By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG DEC. 4, 1970
> 
> 
> 
> 
> December 4, 1970, Page 10
> 
> “The British started the racial domination of Punjabi over Bengali,” a Bengali intellectual said with a sneer the other day. “They liked to talk paternally about the simple, straight forward, martial Punjabis, much better fellows than those nasty, scheming Bengalis.”
> 
> It is hard to imagine two races or regions any more different. They speak different languages—Urdu in the West, Bengali in the East—eat different foods—meat and grain in the West, fish and rice in the East— and have almost contradictory cultures, for the Bengalis are volatile and love politics and literature while the Punjabis are more stolid and prefer governing and soldiering.
> 
> The only thing the two wings have in common is their religion, Islam. That was the basis for the country's creation when it was decided that Hindus and Moslems could not live peacefully together and the subcontinent was carved into largely Hindu India and the two Moslem segments that make up Pakistan.
> 
> Glue May Lose Its Hold
> 
> The glue of Islam may finally be losing its hold. Many observers deem it a miracle that the two regions have stuck together so long and believe that their separation into independent nations is only a matter of time.
> 
> National elections will be held next Monday—the first full elections under adult franchise in Pakistan's history— and East Pakistan is pushing for a form of regional autonomy that many believe is only a prelude to secession.
> 
> There has recently been talk that the Government, under pressure from the Punjabi‐run army, is planning to postpone the elections, but fears of popular uprising in East Pakistan have apparently quashed any such intention.
> 
> The Bengalis would have regarded postponement as a flimsy pretext for continuing the martial ‐ law regime proclaimed last year, when Gen Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan became President, and with it the domination of the East by the West.
> 
> “If the elections are aborted,” warned Sheik Mujibur Rahman, leader of the Awami League, the East's key political party, “The people will owe it to the million who have died in the cyclone to make the supreme sacrifice of another million lives, if need be, so that we can live as a free people. We will no longer suffer the arbitrary rule of the bureaucrats, the capitalists and the feudal interests of West Pakistan.”
> 
> *Pakistan is that rare country where the majority region is the backward one. Although the East has 75 million people to the West's 55 million, the West has received the over whelming proportion of the development funds, factories, public‐works projects and defense facilities.*
> 
> *Prices are higher in East Pakistan, with rice and wheat twice as costly, although per capita income is at least 50 per cent lower. Six times as much electricity is produced in the West, four times as much foreign aid is spent there, three times as many imports are consumed there, twice as much development money is allocated there and nine times as much is spent on defense.*
> 
> The disparity is heightened, grimly, by the population pressure in East Pakistan, with 20 million more people than in the West in an area only a sixth as large. If the United States had the same density, it would have 4.5 billion people. Broken down, it is more than 1,300 per square mile on the average and as high as 2,100 in cultivated areas.
> 
> Perpetual Disaster Area
> 
> The pressure, matched only in some parts of Japan, Taiwan and Communist China, has forced the division of farms into smaller and less profitable plots and has pushed hundreds of thousands of the poorest peasants down into the fertile but dangerous lowlands and offshore islands of the Ganges Delta.
> 
> Eighty per cent of East Pakistan is less than 50 feet above sea level; the delta areas, even lower, are more vulnerable to storms and monsoon flooding.
> 
> East Pakistan is a perpetual disaster area, even in “normal” times—ravaged by cholera, typhoid and smallpox, by pests and filth, by raging unemployment and monsoon floods.
> 
> West Pakistan, benefiting from the so‐called green revolution in improved agricultural yields, is just about self‐sufficient in food while East Pakistan has an annual deficit of some 2.5 million tons. Experts say it could be five million tons by 1975, which could mean famine.
> 
> *As if internal problems were not enough, East Pakistan has been far more damaged than was the western sector by the partition, which virtually cut it off from neighboring West Bengal, now a state of India. All trade between them has been forbidden since the brief Indian ‐ Pakistani war over Kashmir in 1965.
> 
> The coal that used to come from West Bengal now comes from Communist China at as much as 10 times the cost. The only cement factory in East Pakistan, which used to get its limestone from India, must get it from less economical domestic deposits and pay five times the Indian price.*
> 
> *If the East Pakistanis win a measure of regional autonomy, they will immediately press to improve trade with India, one of the moves feared by the army and the hierarchy of the central Government in West Pakistan.*
> 
> *Generals Are Fearful
> 
> The Generals know that with greater provincial autonomy, the central Government's powers would be reduced and the vast military spending, some times as much as half of the budget, would be sharply cut. The army also knows that better relations with India would weaken the arguments for perpetuating the Kashmir dispute, which is one of the main reasons for the army's existence and has never aroused the Bengalis as it has the Punjabis, who live next to the disputed territory.*
> 
> Does the answer to all this woe lie in breaking Pakistan into two nations, as many militant Bengalis and even some Punjabis tired of the crisis now believe? But could East Pakistan, with its overwhelming problems, survive as a separate entity?
> 
> The fear of not surviving is what is keeping the dominant Bengali political forces from demanding secession right now.
> 
> “If we are the majority, we are Pakistan!” Sheik Mujibur thundered at a meeting with the foreign press last week.
> 
> Unfortunately for the Bengalis, the army and its powerful friends in West Pakistan do not quite see it that way.
> __________________________________________________________________________
> 
> I will be posting more insightful articles soon from that era by Mr. Schanberg.
> 
> *East Pakistan Leader Voices a Secession Threat*
> 
> 
> By SYDNEY SCHANBERG NOV. 27, 1970
> 
> 
> DACCA, Pakistan, Nov. 26— Sheik Mujibur Rahman, East Pakistan's dominant political leader, warned the central government today that if the national elections were postponed, “I go for a total struggle” for secession of East Pakistan.
> 
> There have been reports that President Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan might once again postpone the elections for a National Assembly, which are scheduled for Dec. 7 and which would be the first full and free election based on adult franchise in Pakistan's 23‐year history.
> 
> The elections were originally scheduled for Oct. 5, but when monsoon floods disrupted much of East Pakistan, the President put them off, President Yahya, who returned this afternoon from a two‐day tour of the coastal area devastated by the cyclone and tidal wave of Nov. 13, would presumably declare a postponement this time on the ground that the damage, caused by the cyclone and tidal wave, in which the official death toll is over 175,000, had produced a national emergency.
> 
> This, however, probably would be regarded in East Pakistan as merely an excuse for continuing the present martial law regime, and, with it, West Pakistan domination over East Pakistan. The eastern and western sections of the country are separated by over a thousand miles of Indian territory.
> 
> The Bengalis of East Pakistan feel that the central Government, which is run from West Pakistan and is controlled by the Punjabis, did not press relief efforts after the cyclone and therefore proved its callousness and indifference to the plight of the poorer and more populous East.
> 
> Sheik Mujibur, charging “our own rulers” with “criminal negligence”, said, “A massive rescue and relief operation, if launched within 24 hours of the disaster, could have saved thousands of lives.”
> 
> Speaking at a chaotic news conference attended by many foreign correspondents, the 50 year‐old leader of the Awami league, who had just returned from a tour of the disaster area, said, “Only present experience has brought into sharp focus the basic truth that every Bengali has felt in his bones, that we have been treated so long as a colony and a market that we have been denied our birthrights as the free citizens of an independent state.”


Joining with West Pakistan in 1947 was our biggest geo-political disaster in history perhaps only after battle of Plassey. We had patriotic and visionary leaders like HS Suhrawardy, AK Fazlul Haque, Mawlana Bhashani then. Why they could not anticipate the danger of joining with Pakistan? Bangladesh should have been independent since 1947. We could have bargained a much better deal instead of sacrificing our rights on the behest of West Pakistani interest in partition. Top Muslim League leadership like Jinnah and Liaqaut used East Bengal as their bargaining chip to maximize the gain in western Pakistan in partition. And exploited East Bengal as a cash cow for industrialization after the 1947. If we were independent in 1947, we could have been a much better shape now. At least then British Prime Minister Clement Attlee was sympathetic to independent Bengal cause. We could have taken that opportunity.

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## VikingRaider

Homo Sapiens said:


> Joining with West Pakistan in 1947 was our biggest geo-political disaster in history perhaps only after battle of Plassey. We had patriotic and visionary leaders like HS Suhrawardy, AK Fazlul Haque, Mawlana Bhashani then. Why they could not anticipate the danger of joining with Pakistan? Bangladesh should have been independent since 1947. We could have bargained a much better deal instead of sacrificing our rights on the behest of West Pakistani interest in partition. Top Muslim League leadership like Jinnah and Liaqaut used East Bengal as their bargaining chip to maximize the gain in western Pakistan in partition. And exploited East Bengal as a cash cow for industrialization after the 1947. If we were independent in 1947, we could have been a much better shape now. At least then British Prime Minister Clement Attlee was sympathetic to independent Bengal cause. We could have taken that opportunity.


Actually it happened not only because of the Muslim league leaders but also for the hindutva ideology of Binay savarkar. 

Otherwise we would have United Bengali as sohrawardi proposed. And if we had United Bengal who knows maybe even seven sisters would also be the part of United Bangladesh.

The hindutva theory of Saverkar was actually a fake theory, because in Bangladesh minority Hindus are living in peace ( except after 2001 when the Jamati terrorists came to power) , and Bangladesh is a country of religious harmony and peace. So if we got United Bengal, Hindus would be more than one third in that United country so I think all side of Bengalis would be happy.


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## Nilgiri

Atlas said:


> Actually it happened not only because of the Muslim league leaders but also for the hindutva ideology of Binay savarkar.
> 
> Otherwise we would have United Bengali as sohrawardi proposed. And if we had United Bengal who knows maybe even seven sisters would also be the part of United Bangladesh.
> 
> The hindutva theory of Saverkar was actually a fake theory, because in Bangladesh minority Hindus are living in peace ( except after 2001 when the Jamati terrorists came to power) , and Bangladesh is a country of religious harmony and peace. So if we got United Bengal, Hindus would be more than one third in that United country so I think all side of Bengalis would be happy.



Whats the point of united bengal over united India then?


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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> Whats the point of united bengal over united India then?



A cohesive country dominated by the Muslim Bengalis with the Hindus as junior partners.

The tribals would also not have to give away their resources to more than a billion Hindus.

This would have been the success story of S Asia with different religions and ethnicities living in peace in a prosperous and geographical diverse country.

Partition should have been the following to make it a success:

1. Pakistan and Kashmir
2. India minus Kashmir, W Bengal and NE states
3. BD with W Bengal, NE states and Arakan.

Nearly EVERYONE in S Asia would be richer and happier now.

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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> A cohesive country dominated by the Muslim Bengalis with the Hindus as junior partners.
> 
> The tribals would also not have to give away their resources to more than a billion Hindus.
> 
> This would have been the success story of S Asia with different religions and ethnicities living in peace in a prosperous and geographical diverse country.
> 
> Partition should have been the following to make it a success:
> 
> 1. Pakistan and Kashmir
> 2. India minus Kashmir, W Bengal and NE states
> 3. BD with W Bengal, NE states and Arakan.
> 
> Nearly EVERYONE in S Asia would be richer and happier now.




Noakhali riots etc...showed otherwise....and the continued stories of Hindus that have fled from BD over the decades.

In the end, the reality happens for a reason as opposed to your dreams/visions.

I'm overall satisfied how it has turned out (and you lot rightfully got the stick from karma)....and that you have to cling to your dream ....seeing the reality of your miserable dominated rump state, spawned out of 3 million crying....and opening up for full political obeisance to India....and whatever Burma wants to send your way.

Now jihadidi is on the way out.....NRC there will follow. Bengali Hindus rightfully are taking action and there will be only one way it ends for your illegals and "feelings"....crushed as usual:












@Axomiya_lora @Aung Zaya

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## VikingRaider

Nilgiri said:


> Whats the point of united bengal over united India then?


Other than religion, both part of Bengal share similar culture,lifestyle etc and also understanding was much better in them unless religious extreme dividation was introduced to them . On the other hand Indian subcontinent had been culturally diverse.

And religion should not be a matter ( it's personal choice, if people are tolerant, religion should never ever be an issue) if it has no caste system or oppressive ideology ( atleast that was practiced in society) and in Bengali Hindus ( mostly shaktiays) caste system were never predominent here unlike other parts of Indian subcontinent. That's the reason united bengal was totally accepted unlike united India!

So language and cultural similarity is the key to form a nation imo. So if in United Bengal, hindus were bigger in number, still I have no problem.


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## proudindian20

UKBengali said:


> A cohesive country dominated by the Muslim Bengalis with the Hindus as junior partners.
> 
> The tribals would also not have to give away their resources to more than a billion Hindus.
> 
> This would have been the success story of S Asia with different religions and ethnicities living in peace in a prosperous and geographical diverse country.
> 
> Partition should have been the following to make it a success:
> 
> 1. Pakistan and Kashmir
> 2. India minus Kashmir, W Bengal and NE states
> 3. BD with W Bengal, NE states and Arakan.
> 
> Nearly EVERYONE in S Asia would be richer and happier now.




Don't worry. Wait for 30 more years. Hindu majority India will be richer and more prosperous. Not sure much about Pakistan and Bangladesh.


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## VikingRaider

Nilgiri said:


> Noakhali riots etc...showed otherwise....and the continued stories of Hindus that have fled from BD over the decades.


Noakhali riot was a result of kolkata riot after direct action day of Jinnah . Before such movement people were mostly against British, but later they turned against each other. I think if the United Bengal proposed by sohrawardi was accepted, there should be no riot happened.

So basically hindutva ideology of Binay savarkar and opportunist behavior of top Muslim League leaders is the main reason of such chaos. If hindutva ideology ( that was not predominent in this region) wouldn't want Bengal ( undivided Bengal) to be part of United India, then a third country would form that was United Bengal.

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## proudindian20

Why would Indian Bengalis give up being part of India to become subservient of Bangladesh? So they end up like Pakistan? This United Bengal theory is hilarious.


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## Nilgiri

Atlas said:


> Other than religion, both part of Bengal share similar culture,lifestyle etc and also understanding was much better in them unless religious extreme dividation was introduced to them . On the other hand Indian subcontinent had been culturally diverse.
> 
> And religion should not be a matter ( it's personal choice, if people are tolerant, religion should never ever be an issue) if it has no caste system or oppressive ideology ( atleast that was practiced in society) and in Bengali Hindus ( mostly shaktiays) caste system were never predominent here unlike other parts of Indian subcontinent. That's the reason united bengal was totally accepted unlike united India!
> 
> So language and cultural similarity is the key to form a nation imo. So if in United Bengal, hindus were bigger in number, still I have no problem.



We listen to the stories of Bangal Hindus that left Bangladesh...and they have all together different perspective. We trust in their narrative...since they saw things first hand on the ground.

Presence and lack of "Caste" factors is a weak excuse...because there are plenty of regions in subcontinent where this varies (and there is cohesion issues of this nature in every society/religion....the point is to make a system that works to address it comprehensively over time...to ensure equal opportunity for all). 

If the country was highly federated (as it would have needed to be to have muslims remain in united larger polity), why would it even matter? Simply there would be enough balance between what the central govt purview is (geopolitics, foreign affairs, larger security etc) and what the local regional govts would have responsibility/legislation for.

The water has now flown under the bridge several times over anyway.....I mean we can simply keep turning the clock back in time and do "what if" scenarios all day long....matters nothing to today's reality.



Atlas said:


> Noakhali riot was a result of kolkata riot after direct action day of Jinnah . Before such movement people were mostly against British, but later they turned against each other. I think if the United Bengal proposed by sohrawardi was accepted, there should be no riot happened.
> 
> So basically hindutva ideology of Binay savarkar and opportunist behavior of top Muslim League leaders is the main reason of such chaos. If hindutva ideology ( that was not predominent in this region) wouldn't want Bengal ( undivided Bengal) to be part of United India, then a third country would form that was United Bengal.



Hindutva ideology also took stock from reactionary aversion to what Muslims were doing to Hindus at the time as well.

This whole narrative that all blame comes from one side solely and everything is hunky dory before some sudden "initiation" is frankly BS.

The point is, could the elites put that aside and try make a better reasoning above such raw identities and forces on the ground...to try give best chance to something bigger taking shape beyond such identities and forces.

The answer was no....those forces were simply too strong and elite were just not that interested anyway. Once you set that into process (division)....sorry you don't get to say a certain amount is "enough" to get some favourable regional result on it....it will go bare bones all the way to the starkest (and arguably most black and white) identity clash, which in south asia case will always be muslim vs non-muslim.

That is why united bengal (since it takes away from united India) was a doomed concept from the get go....even if it somehow took stock....you would have simply had another version of partition and/or 1971 eventually at some point all over again....because anything that propped it up to exist would have also been same argument for larger united India/Hindustan to exist. But because it didn't, occam's razor (using the reality that has unfolded) in the hypothetical debate the cohesive forces at that level in subcontinent simply weren't enough at that crucial span of years when the polities did take shape and sought "free" air and new beginning.


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## VikingRaider

Nilgiri said:


> Hindutva ideology also took stock from reactionary aversion to what Muslims were doing to Hindus *at the time* as well.


What time? During partition or before? This area was under British rule.for 200 years, and British favoured Hindus because when they ( British) came that time Muslim were in administrative position, so probably they ( British) didn't feel secure to give Muslims better position. We know the permanent settlement by British!

Later during all British time all land lords were Hindus, so what actually Muslims did to Hindus I am unable to understand. Before British came here Muslim rulers of this region was much more liberal and many Muslim sultans were patron of many hindu literature ( you can search Google for more information) , many hindu literature were translated into Bengali from sanskrit in sultani era.

And if you are talking about mughal emperor Aurangzeb, then I would say that he is the only ruler who had problems with non Muslims, but other Mughal emperors were good and liberal minded . So can you clarify your position about rising hindutva as reactionary aversion ?


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## Nilgiri

Atlas said:


> What time? During partition or before? This area was under British rule.for 200 years, and British favoured Hindus because when they ( British) came that time Muslim were in administrative position, so probably they ( British) didn't feel secure to give Muslims better position. We know the permanent settlement by British!
> 
> Later during all British time all land lords were Hindus, so what actually Muslims did to Hindus I am unable to understand. Before British came here Muslim rulers of this region was much more liberal and many Muslim sultans were patron of many hindu literature ( you can search Google for more information) , many hindu literature were translated into Bengali from sanskrit in sultani era.
> 
> And if you are talking about mughal emperor Aurangzeb, then I would say that he is the only ruler who had problems with non Muslims, but other Mughal emperors were good and liberal minded . So can you clarify your position about rising hindutva as reactionary aversion ?



No, the British just recognised who are more competent at merit-based bureaucracy....rather than an artificial imposed identity politics based one from mughal era (which led to its own inevitable demise). That reality is again manifesting today....why you think legislatively India is only one in the region with actual semblance of a constitution thats followed rigorously in modern era? It manifests in the large companies and capital created now and starting to really get deployed....and what manifests between these nationalities in western world broadly too.

The whole history written under Mughal time will obviously have a biased slant to it....you really think there is going to be written record on the oppression faced by non-muslim under more "liberal" sultans who were self-declared "patrons" of whatever?

Sorry it was never a common or accepted reference point....Islam was as much an invader to this region as the British were....its presence was just a lot longer and followed up with much more austere long term identity politics and it simply manifested big time when all the invader yokes started to free up. Did British impose a jizya on non-Christians to pressure people to convert to christianity? Nope...because their whole objective was mercantile + strategic + extraction based in nature.....so simply it was stratified situation with not too complex removal as far as political revolution goes. But when it comes to something far more deeper than that....then you have to look at the actual messengers/creators of the historical narrative to check for deepset bias....and its not too hard to do in south asia case....especially as time goes by and more reality springs up.

Lack of narrative because of lack of equal opportunity reference point from earlier era does not at all mean these fissures were not existing big time in the area soon after a stark foreign ideology arrived in the area with full objective of "might = right". The ottoman empire break up (w.r.t places like balkans and eastern europe where non-muslim populations remained majority) is another case in point.


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## Shahzaz ud din

boomblast said:


> I still can't believe that people who used to say we wuzz martial race, we will change race of bengalis surrendered in largest size after WW2
> 
> 1,00,000+
> 
> There are members here who had their uncles who surrendered like little bitches to us in 1971


After hunting/raping millions of Ban-ugly pigs(as per Bdees/Indees) our uncles after full fledged war gracefully surrendered their weapons.That,s it.Story finished.
But your forefathers for centuries kept surrendering their wealth,women,girls and even beautiful boys to Muslims and British rulers.Do you guys have any thing to be proud of except shame and humiliation.This Ban-ugly-deshi breed is not much different from you Indians too.Rightly they are in the foot steps of their masters.Every year BD surrenders 50,000 Bangladeshi women and children age 12 to 30 to Indians for prostitution. BD is only so called Muslim country where prostitution is allowed legally.


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## proudindian20

Shahzaz ud din said:


> After hunting/raping millions of Ban-ugly pigs(as per Bdees/Indees) our uncles after full fledged war gracefully surrendered their weapons.That,s it.Story finished.
> But your forefathers for centuries kept surrendering their wealth,women,girls and even beautiful boys to Muslims and British rulers.Do you guys have any thing to be proud of except shame and humiliation.This Ban-ugly-deshi breed is not much different from you Indians too.Rightly they are in the foot steps of their masters.Every year BD surrenders 50,000 Bangladeshi women and children age 12 to 30 to Indians for prostitution. BD is only so called Muslim country where prostitution is allowed legally.



I'm not sure about our forefathers but your forefathers definitely surrendered wealth, women and boys to the Muslim Arabs that invaded. Then they converted you by putting swords to your neck. 

Regarding prostitution, bachabazi still happens in Pakistan. You people have weird fantasies about young boys


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## VikingRaider

Nilgiri said:


> Islam was as much an invader to this region as the British were


Mughals and other Muslim rulers ( except few like sultan mahmud of ghazni) came here and took India as their country to live, while British came here to do business.
However in this sense ( invading issue) Hindus are also not native to India , are they? Weren't Aryans migrated from outside of India? What is your opinion about this Aryan migration?

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## Homo Sapiens

Atlas said:


> Actually it happened not only because of the Muslim league leaders but also for the hindutva ideology of Binay savarkar.
> 
> Otherwise we would have United Bengali as sohrawardi proposed. And if we had United Bengal who knows maybe even seven sisters would also be the part of United Bangladesh.
> 
> The hindutva theory of Saverkar was actually a fake theory, because in Bangladesh minority Hindus are living in peace ( except after 2001 when the Jamati terrorists came to power) , and Bangladesh is a country of religious harmony and peace. So if we got United Bengal, Hindus would be more than one third in that United country so I think all side of Bengalis would be happy.


I do not regret losing West Bengal Hindu dominated areas. They have different mindset then us. Nor I have any wish to create any country with North east tribals. I like homogeneity of Bangladesh. We are more than 98 percent Bengali and 90 percent Muslim. Where ever I go within Bangladesh, I can relate myself with local people. This is what make us internally strong. If we were fractured along many ethnic, religious,linguistic and cultural line, we would be always quarreling about those issues. Look at India, always quarreling over religion, ethnicity, language, culture etc. People of one Indian state face xenophobia and hate in other Indian state. There were even risks of secessionist insurgency if we had West Bengal and North East with us like what India and Myanmar facing now. Our one Chakma insurgency was enough. Thankfully that was resolved. There is a merit of homogeneous nation state. I only wished Bangladesh should have got some more Muslim dominated districts in West Bengal and Assam along with possibly Tripura princely state during partition.

But whatever, I am still 90 percent satisfied about the size of Bangladesh. Not too small, not too big. You can cross entire Bangladesh by car within 12 hours. All things are nearby. And geographic size do not matter. Look at South Korea, just 2/3rd of Bangladesh in land area, still a very influential country in the world. Taiwan is just 1/4th of Bangladesh in size still very powerful state economically, militarily. This two countries are also homogeneous like us. We need to emulate them.

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## VikingRaider

Homo Sapiens said:


> I do not regret losing West Bengal Hindu dominated areas. They have different mindset then us. Nor I have any wish to create any country with North east tribals. I like homogeneity of Bangladesh. We are more than 98 percent Bengali and 90 percent Muslim. Where ever I go within Bangladesh, I can relate myself with local people. This is what make us internally strong. If we were fractured along many ethnic, religious,linguistic and cultural line, we would be always quarreling about those issues. Look at India, always quarreling over religion, ethnicity, language, culture etc. People of one Indian state face xenophobia and hate in other Indian state. There were even risks of secessionist insurgency if we had West Bengal and North East with us like what India and Myanmar facing now. Our one Chakma insurgency was enough. Thankfully that was resolved. There is a merit of homogeneous nation state. I only wished Bangladesh should have got some more Muslim dominated districts in West Bengal and Assam along with possibly Tripura princely state during partition.
> 
> But whatever, I am still 90 percent satisfied about the size of Bangladesh. Not too small, not too big. You can cross entire Bangladesh by car within 12 hours. All things are nearby. And geographic size do not matter. Look at South Korea, just 2/3rd of Bangladesh in land area, still a very influential country in the world. Taiwan is just 1/4th of Bangladesh in size still very powerful state economically, militarily. This two countries are also homogeneous like us. We need to emulate them.


Yes you have some good points. Actually all we need is to develop economically and militarily. Now the process maybe started, but I regret that it started very late. After our independence, we should have done more in this 48 years.
Anyway stills it's better late than never.


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## proudindian20

Homo Sapiens said:


> I do not regret losing West Bengal Hindu dominated areas. They have different mindset then us. Nor I have any wish to create any country with North east tribals. I like homogeneity of Bangladesh. We are more than 98 percent Bengali and 90 percent Muslim. Where ever I go within Bangladesh, I can relate myself with local people. This is what make us internally strong. If we were fractured along many ethnic, religious,linguistic and cultural line, we would be always quarreling about those issues. Look at India, always quarreling over religion, ethnicity, language, culture etc. People of one Indian state face xenophobia and hate in other Indian state. There were even risks of secessionist insurgency if we had West Bengal and North East with us like what India and Myanmar facing now. Our one Chakma insurgency was enough. Thankfully that was resolved. There is a merit of homogeneous nation state. I only wished Bangladesh should have got some more Muslim dominated districts in West Bengal and Assam along with possibly Tripura princely state during partition.
> 
> But whatever, I am still 90 percent satisfied about the size of Bangladesh. Not too small, not too big. You can cross entire Bangladesh by car within 12 hours. All things are nearby. And geographic size do not matter. Look at South Korea, just 2/3rd of Bangladesh in land area, still a very influential country in the world. Taiwan is just 1/4th of Bangladesh in size still very powerful state economically, militarily. This two countries are also homogeneous like us. We need to emulate them.



The feeling is mutual buddy. It's good that East Pakistan did not integrate back within India. Your culture is too different and it would cause too much trouble in India. Indians pride upon unity in diversity also cause most of us follow Dharmic religion and even muslims of India are secular in nature.


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## Homo Sapiens

proudindian20 said:


> The feeling is mutual buddy. It's good that East Pakistan did not integrate back within India. Your culture is too different and it would cause too much trouble in India. Indians pride upon unity in diversity also cause most of us follow Dharmic religion and even muslims of India are secular in nature.


Fear of Muslim domination and fear of loosing territory to Pakistan and Bangladesh is what keeping you united. But you can not admit that, so you have invented this 'Unity in diversity mantra' to recite. This fear is what keeping Hindus of India united. But every religious minority tried to break free from India. Muslims are successful, snatched two countries before India could prevent. Sikhs tried unsuccessfully Khalistan, north eastern Christian majority tribal states still engaged in low level insurgency. These small states have no love for Indian union. But they are not rebelling outright, because they have no chance winning against India and surviving thereafter. If north eastern tribal states could formed viable states, they would have never submitted themselves under alien Indian rules. Not to mention, Kashmiri do not consider themselves Indian. If you remove the fear of Hindus about Muslims, then caste division, linguistic and ethnic division of hindus will be too forceful to contain. So this 'unity in diversity' of yours is somewhat fear driven and somewhat imposed forcefully.

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## proudindian20

Homo Sapiens said:


> Fear of Muslim domination and fear of loosing territory to Pakistan and Bangladesh is what keeping you united. But you can not admit that, so you have invented this 'Unity in diversity mantra' to recite. This fear is what keeping Hindus of India united. But every religious minority tried to break free from India. Muslims are successful, snatched two country before India could prevent. Sikhs tried unsuccessfully Khalistan, north eastern Christian majority tribal state still engaged in low level insurgency. These small state have no love for Indian union. But they are not rebelling outright, because they have no chance against winning against India and surviving thereafter. If north eastern tribal states could formed viable states, they would have never submitted themselves under alien Indian rules. Not to mention, Kashmiri do not consider themselves Indian. So this 'unity in diversity' of yours is somewhat fear driven and somewhat imposed forcefully.



Lol you didn't snatch anything. We gave you your country. Maybe type when you're not high.


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## Homo Sapiens

proudindian20 said:


> Lol you didn't snatch anything. We gave you your country. Maybe type when you're not high.


Congress only reluctantly agreed to partition. If it had army in it's control, then it obviously tried to crush Muslim League to root out separatism rather than agreeing to partition. But fortunately British had the power.

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## proudindian20

Homo Sapiens said:


> Congress only reluctantly agreed to partition. If it had army in it's control, then it obviously tried to crush Muslim League to root out separatism rather than agreeing to partition. But fortunately British had the power.



And we're glad that it happened. Otherwise there would have been too much tension in our country. I'd say Jinnah was more forward thinking than Gandhi in that sense. I thank him for giving us the country we have now.

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## Homo Sapiens

proudindian20 said:


> And we're glad that it happened. Otherwise there would have been too much tension in our country. I'd say Jinnah was more forward thinking than Gandhi in that sense. I thank him for giving us the country we have now.


OK, be happy and try to convince RSS type moron in your country to forget about Akhand Bharat wet dream. This wed dream is harmful for relation with other south asian countries.

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## Nilgiri

Atlas said:


> Mughals and other Muslim rulers ( except few like sultan mahmud of ghazni) came here and took India as their country to live, while British came here to do business.
> However in this sense ( invading issue) Hindus are also not native to India , are they? Weren't Aryans migrated from outside of India? What is your opinion about this Aryan migration?



I am talking about in context of first indigenous civilisations (esp with writing/recorded history) in an area.

Everyone is essentially a migrant from african rift valley going by other argument.

Same thing with genetics, markers developed over time and became somewhat indigenous to an area...though the vast majority of throughput of genes are all identical. 

As far as taking a country to live in, that is not a good argument to say there was extensive social cohesion among its people....not the way a lot of it happened in the start. That leaves a lot lingering on the psyche of people across generations.


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## VikingRaider

Nilgiri said:


> I am talking about in context of first indigenous civilisations (esp with writing/recorded history) in an area.
> Everyone is essentially a migrant from african rift valley going by other argument.


Yes and It's little different case and not strong or rational logic here when we make a comparison of two migrants ,( in this sense Muslims are also African like Hindus) .

However we need to focus on archaeological evidences of Indus valley civilisation that was utterly destroyed by outsider Hindus ,and also from various books of the time . We already know the fight between aryans vs non aryans , we know that how Indra destroyed hundreds of cities and got the epithet of Purandar .


> As far as taking a country to live in, that is not a good argument to say there was extensive social cohesion among its people....not the way a lot of it happened in the start. That leaves a lot lingering on the psyche of people across generations.


So I am afraid that this logic also apply for Aryans .


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Dec 16, 1971 isn’t an isolated event!!! It’s all part of the same chain starting with Muhammed bin Kasim and continuing with Sultan Mahmut, Kutubeddin Aybek, Ahmad Shah EbdAli, Muhammed Ali Jinnah etc!!! And, the last episode was on 02-27-2019....


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## Bilal9

Bilal9 said:


> Posting this article as a neutral account of the causes leading up to the March 1971 Liberation War in Bangladesh, a piece by Sydney Schanberg, a Pulitzer prize-winning columnist. Please read carefully and discuss in an un-biased manner, though difficult it might be. We have to understand our historical viewpoints on both sides.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *The Bengalis and the Punjabis: Nation Split by Geography, Hate*
> 
> 
> By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG DEC. 4, 1970
> 
> 
> 
> 
> December 4, 1970, Page 10
> 
> “The British started the racial domination of Punjabi over Bengali,” a Bengali intellectual said with a sneer the other day. “They liked to talk paternally about the simple, straight forward, martial Punjabis, much better fellows than those nasty, scheming Bengalis.”
> 
> It is hard to imagine two races or regions any more different. They speak different languages—Urdu in the West, Bengali in the East—eat different foods—meat and grain in the West, fish and rice in the East— and have almost contradictory cultures, for the Bengalis are volatile and love politics and literature while the Punjabis are more stolid and prefer governing and soldiering.
> 
> The only thing the two wings have in common is their religion, Islam. That was the basis for the country's creation when it was decided that Hindus and Moslems could not live peacefully together and the subcontinent was carved into largely Hindu India and the two Moslem segments that make up Pakistan.
> 
> Glue May Lose Its Hold
> 
> The glue of Islam may finally be losing its hold. Many observers deem it a miracle that the two regions have stuck together so long and believe that their separation into independent nations is only a matter of time.
> 
> National elections will be held next Monday—the first full elections under adult franchise in Pakistan's history— and East Pakistan is pushing for a form of regional autonomy that many believe is only a prelude to secession.
> 
> There has recently been talk that the Government, under pressure from the Punjabi‐run army, is planning to postpone the elections, but fears of popular uprising in East Pakistan have apparently quashed any such intention.
> 
> The Bengalis would have regarded postponement as a flimsy pretext for continuing the martial ‐ law regime proclaimed last year, when Gen Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan became President, and with it the domination of the East by the West.
> 
> “If the elections are aborted,” warned Sheik Mujibur Rahman, leader of the Awami League, the East's key political party, “The people will owe it to the million who have died in the cyclone to make the supreme sacrifice of another million lives, if need be, so that we can live as a free people. We will no longer suffer the arbitrary rule of the bureaucrats, the capitalists and the feudal interests of West Pakistan.”
> 
> *Pakistan is that rare country where the majority region is the backward one. Although the East has 75 million people to the West's 55 million, the West has received the over whelming proportion of the development funds, factories, public‐works projects and defense facilities.*
> 
> *Prices are higher in East Pakistan, with rice and wheat twice as costly, although per capita income is at least 50 per cent lower. Six times as much electricity is produced in the West, four times as much foreign aid is spent there, three times as many imports are consumed there, twice as much development money is allocated there and nine times as much is spent on defense.*
> 
> The disparity is heightened, grimly, by the population pressure in East Pakistan, with 20 million more people than in the West in an area only a sixth as large. If the United States had the same density, it would have 4.5 billion people. Broken down, it is more than 1,300 per square mile on the average and as high as 2,100 in cultivated areas.
> 
> Perpetual Disaster Area
> 
> The pressure, matched only in some parts of Japan, Taiwan and Communist China, has forced the division of farms into smaller and less profitable plots and has pushed hundreds of thousands of the poorest peasants down into the fertile but dangerous lowlands and offshore islands of the Ganges Delta.
> 
> Eighty per cent of East Pakistan is less than 50 feet above sea level; the delta areas, even lower, are more vulnerable to storms and monsoon flooding.
> 
> East Pakistan is a perpetual disaster area, even in “normal” times—ravaged by cholera, typhoid and smallpox, by pests and filth, by raging unemployment and monsoon floods.
> 
> West Pakistan, benefiting from the so‐called green revolution in improved agricultural yields, is just about self‐sufficient in food while East Pakistan has an annual deficit of some 2.5 million tons. Experts say it could be five million tons by 1975, which could mean famine.
> 
> *As if internal problems were not enough, East Pakistan has been far more damaged than was the western sector by the partition, which virtually cut it off from neighboring West Bengal, now a state of India. All trade between them has been forbidden since the brief Indian ‐ Pakistani war over Kashmir in 1965.
> 
> The coal that used to come from West Bengal now comes from Communist China at as much as 10 times the cost. The only cement factory in East Pakistan, which used to get its limestone from India, must get it from less economical domestic deposits and pay five times the Indian price.*
> 
> *If the East Pakistanis win a measure of regional autonomy, they will immediately press to improve trade with India, one of the moves feared by the army and the hierarchy of the central Government in West Pakistan.*
> 
> *Generals Are Fearful
> 
> The Generals know that with greater provincial autonomy, the central Government's powers would be reduced and the vast military spending, some times as much as half of the budget, would be sharply cut. The army also knows that better relations with India would weaken the arguments for perpetuating the Kashmir dispute, which is one of the main reasons for the army's existence and has never aroused the Bengalis as it has the Punjabis, who live next to the disputed territory.*
> 
> Does the answer to all this woe lie in breaking Pakistan into two nations, as many militant Bengalis and even some Punjabis tired of the crisis now believe? But could East Pakistan, with its overwhelming problems, survive as a separate entity?
> 
> The fear of not surviving is what is keeping the dominant Bengali political forces from demanding secession right now.
> 
> “If we are the majority, we are Pakistan!” Sheik Mujibur thundered at a meeting with the foreign press last week.
> 
> Unfortunately for the Bengalis, the army and its powerful friends in West Pakistan do not quite see it that way.
> __________________________________________________________________________
> 
> I will be posting more insightful articles soon from that era by Mr. Schanberg.
> 
> *East Pakistan Leader Voices a Secession Threat*
> 
> 
> By SYDNEY SCHANBERG NOV. 27, 1970
> 
> 
> DACCA, Pakistan, Nov. 26— Sheik Mujibur Rahman, East Pakistan's dominant political leader, warned the central government today that if the national elections were postponed, “I go for a total struggle” for secession of East Pakistan.
> 
> There have been reports that President Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan might once again postpone the elections for a National Assembly, which are scheduled for Dec. 7 and which would be the first full and free election based on adult franchise in Pakistan's 23‐year history.
> 
> The elections were originally scheduled for Oct. 5, but when monsoon floods disrupted much of East Pakistan, the President put them off, President Yahya, who returned this afternoon from a two‐day tour of the coastal area devastated by the cyclone and tidal wave of Nov. 13, would presumably declare a postponement this time on the ground that the damage, caused by the cyclone and tidal wave, in which the official death toll is over 175,000, had produced a national emergency.
> 
> This, however, probably would be regarded in East Pakistan as merely an excuse for continuing the present martial law regime, and, with it, West Pakistan domination over East Pakistan. The eastern and western sections of the country are separated by over a thousand miles of Indian territory.
> 
> The Bengalis of East Pakistan feel that the central Government, which is run from West Pakistan and is controlled by the Punjabis, did not press relief efforts after the cyclone and therefore proved its callousness and indifference to the plight of the poorer and more populous East.
> 
> Sheik Mujibur, charging “our own rulers” with “criminal negligence”, said, “A massive rescue and relief operation, if launched within 24 hours of the disaster, could have saved thousands of lives.”
> 
> Speaking at a chaotic news conference attended by many foreign correspondents, the 50 year‐old leader of the Awami league, who had just returned from a tour of the disaster area, said, “Only present experience has brought into sharp focus the basic truth that every Bengali has felt in his bones, that we have been treated so long as a colony and a market that we have been denied our birthrights as the free citizens of an independent state.”



OK the series will continue. Mr. Schanberg worked for the NY Times and was based in India during the 1970 events leading up to Bangladesh' liberation war and reported directly from the border areas near West Bengal on actual accounts of fighting. These articles are accurate and neutral accounts for the event as it happened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Pakistan Survivors Face Hunger and Burning Sun*


By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
NOV. 21, 1970





BHOLA ISLAND, Pakistan, Nov. 19—One week ago, All Husain, a 25‐year‐old Pakis tani soldier, had 90 relatives, including uncles and aunts and cousins, all living in a poor compound in the village of Medua. Today only 20 are alive.

Jalal Ahmed, a fisherman in the village of Shibpur, lost all his children, four sons.

Nurul Huq, 55, a rice farmer, saw his 75‐year‐old mother swept away.

These are typical of the tragedies on this large island in East Pakistan at the mouth of the Ganges, one of several areas devastated Nov. 13 by one of the worst cyclones and tidal waves in history.

The few survivors face hunger and the burning sun as they wait for relief from the outside world.

Disaster came to Bhola Island without warning.

“We were all sleeping when it hit at midnight,” said Ali Husain. “I caught hold of a palm tree and climbed it and hung on until the waters went down around dawn.”

None of the 25 children among his relatives survived. Of his immediate family of 15, only he and his father are left.

Like so many of the survivors, Ali Husain is still stunned. He must now rejoin his army unit for relief work. but his eyes are red and full from grief and he walks and talks like a ghost.

“I don't know what we'll do. I don't know,” he said. “There is nothing left.”
There is truly nothing left on many parts of this island. En tire villages were swept away by the 150‐mile‐an‐hour wind and the 25‐foot tidal wave that roared in bff the Bay of Bengal.

The lucky villages were only flattened. Bits and pieces of their thatch‐and‐tin shacks were left so that now they were able to construct rude shelters. Many of the survivors, however, must live under the grueling sun with no shelter.

A week after the storm, bodies are still floating in the streams and canals. About 100 floated down a canal today, and towns people say that on some days the number has been as high as 500.

Many bodies have been buried in shallow, hastily dug graves and many others have been swept out to sea. But those that are still floating and those that are hidden in tall trees have kept the smell of death and the fear of disease hovering over the stricken area.

No cholera has yet been re ported but the authorities are openly worried. “We are very afraid that cholera or the pox or dysentery or typhoid will come, said a district official in the town of Bhola, “but we are trying to prevent it.”

So far, little has been done in the way of relief. Many areas still have not been reached by Government officials and most have no food.

Roads are impassable and current still too swift in many canals for relief boats to make the passage. Although soldiers have been trying to repair some of the roads and bridges, the first army engineering team arrived in Bhola only this after noon. The commanding officer, a major, acknowledged that he did not know what building materials were available on the island.

The greatest need is transportation for supplies to the stranded areas, and that means helicopters. The United States is sending six, but so far they have not arrived and the Government has only three aircraft working on relief—one army helicopter, one seaplane and one small land plane.

Supplies are piling up at out lying depots. The relief effort seems unorganized.

No one has any idea how many people were killed by the storm. Unofficial guesses have risen as high as a million and a half.

Nevertheless, reports from specific areas indicate that the toll may be several hundred thousand. The total population of the stricken area as about two and a half million.

Officials on Bhola Island, which has a population of about 900,000, said today they be lieved 200,000 of them had been killed.

The greatest toll was among the children, who were not strong enough to cling to trees.

Even in normal times this densely populated area of rice farmers and fishermen is wretchedly poor. The per capita income is equal to about $60 a year.

But now the situation is a hundred times worse, if that can be imagined.

Many survivors huddle under the sun in school yards and other collection points waiting for government officials to bring some food, which, when it is available, is a soup of rice and dal, a yellow pea.

In those areas where the peasants have patched together shelters from rags and bits of tin, wood, thatch and palm leaves, much of the time they simply sit and stare at the rice fields smothered in mud.

“We have been through many storms,” said Nurul Huq, the rice farmer, “but there has never been anything like this.” He pointed to a muddy mark high on a palm tree showing where the water had been.

“Only Allah knows why this has happened to us.” he said.


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## Bilal9

*YAHYA CONCEDES ‘SLIPS’ IN RELIEF*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
NOV. 28, 1970

DACCA, Pakistan, Nov. 22— President Agha Mohammad Khan conceded tonight that his martial‐law Government had made “slips” and “mistakes” in its relief effort for the cyclone victims of East Pakistan, but he insisted that “everything was done within the limits of the Government.”

Defending himself and his Government against charges by the Bengali population of East Pakistan that the relief effort had been laggard and had shown indifference and even callousness, President Yahya said at a news conference:

“The efforts were not ideal. There have been odd slips, there have been odd mistakes. But I would like to know country or government which consists of angels. My Government is not made up of angels.”

He said there had been “lack of appreciation” of the magnitude of the cyclone and tidal wave that struck the Ganges delta area on Nov. 13. The official death toll is more than 175,000 and may rise far beyond that.

“There Have Been Delays”

“There have been mistakes, there have been delays,” the President said. “But by and large I'm very satisfied that everything is being done and will be done.”

The news conference, held in the ceremonial room of Governor's House here, clearly had been called to try to answer the charges of Government neglect and to defuse the potentially explosive political situation they have created.

The Bengalis have always felt that the central Government, which is run from West Pakistan and is dominated by the Punjabis of that region, has treated them as poor relations. The disaster has heightened this grievance and turned it into an issue in the national elections, scheduled for Dec. 7.

President Yahya tonight denied rumors that he would postpone the elections because of the disaster. The Bengalis would have regarded as a thin excuse for continuing the martial law declared in March 1969 and with it the western domination of East Pakistan.

“The election will take place,” the 53‐year‐old commander of the army said firmly. He added that in the eight or nine districts devastated by the cyclone and tidal wave the vote would probably be postponed “for a few weeks.”
President Yahya opened the conference with a long explanation of his own actions—including his decision not to remain in Dacca to direct relief operations after a brief aerial tour immediately following the storm.

He said he had left behind “clear instructions to get on with it full steam” before he returned to the capital of Islamabad in west Pakistan “to organize many things.”

Asked if his Government had been “late in starting on relief,” he replied angrily: “My Government was not late in starting on any relief! In a disaster of this magnitude, it takes time to mount such an operation and do it constructively, not running around like madmen.”

Consulate Lists Relief Needs

The Consulate General of Pakistan, 12 East 65th Street, issued yesterday a list of “immediate requirements for relief of East Pakistan cyclone victims.”

The list included precooked food, powdered, or evaporated milk, aluminum or plastic utensils and water containers, 22,000 tents, 10 portable wire less radio sets, 30 portable water purification plants, a million blankets, light warm clothing and medicines, including antibiotics, water purification tablets and vitamins.

Also urgently needed, the announcement said, were $32 million for reconstruction, 500,000 tons of cereals, 10,000 tons of food oils, 100 boats with outboard motors, jeep type vehicles and 10 mobile and floating dispensaries.

Cash and checks made out to President's East Pakistan Relief Fund” may be sent to the Consul General's office here or to the Pakistan Em bassy, 2315 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20008.

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*Pakistan: People Still Dying Because of Inadequate Relief Job*

— SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
NOV. 29, 1970

DACCA, Pakistan — When a foreign relief official was asked last week if the cyclone rescue effort in East Pakistan was as massive as it looked, he shook his head wearily and said, “Heavens, no. It's only just be gun!,

Although supplies by the planeload pour in at Dacca's airport — blankets, tents, high protein foods, medicines, flat bottomed motorboats, clothes and water ‐ purification equipment — getting them to the still‐dazed survivors of the cyclone and huge waves that crushed vast coastal areas of East Pakistan two weeks ago is quite another matter.

Washed‐out roads are slowly being repaired, and some boats are beginning to move in the still‐dangerous channels of the Ganges delta, but the only way to get help to some of the isolated survivors is by air‐drop. American, British, French and Pakistani helicopters are using every available daylight hour to scour the mud‐smothered flats of the delta for the sick and hungry victims and push out the supplies at extremely low altitudes.

Yet, this is only scratching the surface. Virtually the entire water supply of the stricken region was polluted—either by the massive saline waves or by the decomposing bodies of the dead, many of which still lie unburied under the cruel sun.

Some officials here are estimating that maybe I million persons died in the terrifying storm; the total population in the devastated region is about 2½ million.

Some areas and offshore islands still have no fresh water, and very little has yet been brought in. No water is being air‐dropped, apparently because of the lack of proper containers, and only small amounts have been brought in by boat.

On the other hand, the country is now glutted with cholera vaccine. Officials at first feared a severe cholera epidemic — it is still possible—but East Pakistan itself produces more than enough vaccine for its own needs.

Nevertheless, in the chaos, unpreparedness and virtual absence of coordination in the Pakistani relief effort, foreign countries were not told of the vaccine surplus, and shipments continue to arrive. Three nights ago, the first planeload of Communist Chinese supplies reached Dacca—the bulk of it 500,000 doses of cholera vaccine.

“People may live forever without vaccination,” said a cholera expert here, “but they ‘cannot live without water.”

On Manpura Island, one of the worst‐ravaged areas, only two wells are still usable and no fresh water is being brought in.

The Pakistani Government now seems to be making every effort to help the survivors, but at the beginning—whether out of indifference, lethargy or simple inefficiency—the Government seemed to watch as the foreign relief teams and supplies went to work at a desperate pace.

Bureaucratic confusion and sometimes stubbornness still hamper the relief program. There is no Control Room to coordinate the myriad of activities and avoid waste and over lapping. Out of pride, and paranoia about military secrets, Pakistan has refused to let India, its usually hostile neighbor, bring in relief supplies by plane, thus forcing them to come across the border slowly in trucks.

All this has seriously fanned the flames of the bitter Bengali vs. Punjabi feud that has plagued Pakistan throughout its 23‐year history.

The Central Government, run from West Pakistan and dominated by the Punjabis of that wing, has always short‐changed the more populous Bengalis of East Pakistan in budget funds, development projects and good government jobs. For the Bengalis, the cyclone aftermath reinforced their feelings of being exploited by West Pakistan, which is separated from the eastern wing by 1,000 miles of Indian territory.

Many Bengalis feel that the West Pakistan's Punjabis were callous about the fate of the cyclone survivors. Some Bengali political leaders have charged the Government with “criminal negligence,” and headlines have even spoken of “deliberate murder,” a risky demonstration of freedom of the press in a nation under martial law.

Pakistan's first full and free national elections under a one‐ man, one‐vote election law are scheduled for Dec. 7, although the balloting is expected to be delayed in the cyclone areas.

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*A WESTERN GROUP AIDED PAKISTANIS*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
JAN. 3, 1971

DACCA, Pakistan—Amid the chaos of the relief effort after the Nov. 12 cyclone in East Pakistan, one fairly smooth operation stood out—spontaneously organized by a group of Westerners living in Pakistan, together with their Pakistani friends.

They called themselves H.E.L.P. (for Heartland Emergency Life‐Saving Project) and, until the army finally took over relief distribution on Dec. 3 on Manpura and Shakuchia, they were the only life ‐ sustaining presence on those islands.

Led by Dr. Jon Rohde, a 29 year‐old graduate of the Harvard Medical School (Bilal's note: a piece by Dr. Rohde appears below about the carnage of 25th March, 1971) who is now on the staff of the South east Asian Treaty Organization Cholera Hospital in Dacca, the group succeeded because it never allowed itself to be choked by the Government's red tape, wherever the members worked.

Some of the group's leaders, especially Dr. Rohde's wife, Cornelia, and F. H. Abed, treasurer of Pakistan Shell, (Bilal's note: Fazle Hasan Abed founded BRAC, one of the world's largest NGO's based in Bangladesh, post 1971) worked on the mainland in organizing and fund‐raising projects. Others, including three more doctors from the SEATO Hospital —George Curlin, Lincoln Chen and Richard Guerrant—worked on the islands, while the wives of two of them, Peggy Curlin and Martha Chen, assisted on the mainland.

This two ‐ pronged campaign allowed the organization to get goods to the places where they were needed in the shortest possible time.

Germans Lend Copters

Five West German Army helicopters had been assigned to the Chittagong airport for airdrop service, and once the Germans realized the efficiency of H.E.L.P., the craft were virtually handed over to it.

The workers, who were greatly admired by the villagers, tried to persuade them to organize cooperatives on the two islands. This program led by David Stockley, 42, a British farm specialist and a member of H.E.L.P., has already evoked the interest of the Ford Foundation and the United States Agency for International Development.

The transition to army control of relief distribution was a difficult one for the Bengali islanders. The atmosphere changed completely, since the army was inevitably more rigid and less personal than the civilian volunteers.

Then, too, almost none of the soldiers were Bengalis. The 80 who went to Manpura, for example, were tall Pathans from West Pakistan's Frontier Force Regiment who spoke Urdu but no Bengali.

No More Cozy Chats

In the mornings the islanders had warm, relaxed chats with the H.E.L.P. volunteers, most of whom spoke passable Bengali. Now the peasants sat warily around the relief center, watching the soldiers polish their boots and belts and line up for their shaves by the unit barber. Gone were the pep talks, about rebuilding bridges and repairing wells, so important to a community whose morale was shattered.

“Our job,” said a young lieutenant, “is to keep law and order and distribute these relief goods fairly—nothing more.”

The civilian workers tried to overcome the uneasiness about the soldiers, but it was difficult.

“The army does not care for us,” a farmer said. “Where were they in our time of need? Now they come — after 21 days.”

As a Westerner was about to depart a villager whispered: “Please don't leave us alone with the army.”

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*FREEDOM IN THE OFFING*
*Recent events in East Pakistan*
*Here we publish a letter from Dr. Jon E. Rohde, a physician evacuated from East Pakistan, to Senator William B. Saxbe. Senator Saxbe presented it in his speech in the U.S. Senate on April 29,1971.*

Jon E. Rohde, M.D.

Hon. William B. Saxbe, New Senate Office Building, Washington, D.C.

Dear Senator Saxbe: Two days ago my wife and I were evacuated from Dacca, East Pakistan, where I have been posted for the past three years as a physician under USAID. I am certain that you are aware of the political events preceding the army crackdown on March 25th. As a result of complete censorship and the expulsion of journalists, banning of the major political party in Pakistan, and repressed information about the military campaign against the civilians of East Pakistan, it must have been difficult to obtain a clear picture of events since that date. From the outset of the army action, the American Consul General and his staff in Dacca, have continued to send detailed factual accounts enumerating first-hand reports of the situation. These reports have been carefully collected and verified before transmission to the State Department. Publicly the State Department claims they do not have enough facts; but I have seen the factual reports sent daily from Dacca. The American Consul in Karachi stated to me that they only recently began to receive the accounts about the situation in East Pakistan, when the Consulate in Dacca has been transmitting information from the very start of the action.

Although Consul Blood's reports contain a more detailed account of the current situation, I wish to bring to your attention the observations I have made in the past weeks in Dacca. My wife and I watched from our roof the night of March 25th as tanks rolled out of the Cantonment illuminated by the flares and the red glow of fires as the city was shelled by artillery, and mortars were fired into crowded slums and bazaars. After two days of loud explosions and the continual chatter of machine-guns, we took advantage of a break in the curfew to drive through the city. Driving past streams of refugees, we saw burned out shacks of families living by the railroad tracks, coming from Gulshan to Mohakhali crossing. A Bengali friend living close by had watched the army set fire to the hovels, and as the families ran out, he saw them shot down "like dogs". He accepted our offer to take him and his family of twelve into our home. In the old city we walked through the remains of Nayer Bazaar, where Moslem and Hindu wood cutters had worked, now only a tangle of iron, and sheet and smouldering ruins. The Hindu shopkeepers and craftsmen still alive in the bombed ruins of Shankari Bazaar begged me to help them only hours after the army had moved in with the intention to kill all inhabitants. One man had been shot in the abdomen and killed only one half hour before we arrived. Others were lying in the streets rotting. The day before we were evacuated, I saw Moslem names in Urdu, on the remains of houses in Shankari Bazaar previously a totally Hindu area. On the 29th we stood at Ramna Kali Bari, an ancient Hindu village of about two hundred fifty people in the center of Dacca Ramna Race Course, and witnessed the stacks of machine-gunned, burning remains of men, women and children butchered in the early morning hours of March 29. I photographed the scene hours later.

Sadarghat, Shakaripatti, Rayer Bazaar, Nayer Bazaar, Pailpara and Thatari Bazaar are a few of the places where the homes of the thousands are razed to the grounds.

In the university area on the 29th, we walked through Jagannath Hall and Iqbal Hall, two of the student dormitories at Dacca University shelled by army tanks. All inmates were slaughtered. We saw the breach in the wall where the tank broke through, the tank tracks and the mass grave in front of the hall. A man who was forced to drag the bodies outside, counted one hundred three of the Hindu students buried there. Outside were the massive holes in the walls of the dormitory, while inside were the smoking remains of the rooms and the heavily blood-stained floors. We also saw evidence of tank attack at Iqbal Hall where bodies were still unburied.

The two ensuing weeks have documented the planned killing of much of the intellectual community, including the majority of professors of Dacca University. These include: Professor G. C. Dev, Head of the Philosophy Department; Professor Maniruzzaman, Head of the Department of Statistics; Professor Jotirmoy Guhathakurta, Head of the English Department; Dr. Naqvi and Dr. Ali, Head of the Department of History; Professor Innas Ali, Head of the Physics Department and Professor Dr. M. N. Huda, Head of the Economics Department, former Governor and Finance Minister, were shot in their quarters, injured and left for dead. Many families of these professors were shot as well. Full documentation of the people is difficult due to the army's thorough search leaving Dacca. Complete censorship was facilitated when three prominent mass circulation dailies were burned: The People, The Ittefaq and the Sangbad.

Military action continued after the attack of the first two days. We listened as the early morning of April first was wracked for two hours by artillery pounding Jinjira, a town across the Buriganga from Dacca, that had swollen in size with an estimated one hundred thousands civilians fleeing terrorized Dacca. Radio Pakistan continued to broadcast that life in Dacca had returned to normal but we witnessed a nearly deserted city.

In Gulshan, one of the suburban areas of Dacca, where we lived, we witnessed the disarming of the East Pakistan Rifles, stationed in the Children's Park across the street, the army looting the food supplies from the market nearby, and finally the execution of several EPR as they were forced by Punjabi soldiers onto a truck to be "taken away". The mass execution of several thousands of Bengali policemen and East Pakistan Rifles is already documented. We also witnessed from a neighbour's house, army personnel fire three shots across Gulshan Lake at several little boys who were swimming. Nearly every night there was sporadic gunfire near our home adding to the fear of twenty-six refugees staying with us. During the day Pakistan planes flew overhead to their bombing missions.

*It would be possible for me to chronicle many specific atrocities, but we have left close friends behind whose lives might be more endangered. It is clear that the law of the jungle prevails in East Pakistan where the mass killing of unarmed civilians, the systematic elimination of the intelligentsia, and the annihilation of the Hindu population is in progress.*

The reports of Consul Blood, available to you as a Congressman, contain a more detailed and complete account of the situation. In addition, he has submitted concrete proposals for constructive moves our government can make. While in no way suggesting that we interfere with Pakistan's internal affairs, he asserts, and we support him, that the United States must not continue to condone the military action with official silence. We also urge you to read the Dacca official community's open cable to the State Department. It is for unlimited distribution and states the facts about the situation in East Pakistan.

By not making a statement, the State Department appears to support the clearly immoral action of the West Pakistani army, navy, and air force against the Bengali people.

We were evacuated by Pakistan's commercial airline. We were loaded on planes that had just disembarked full loads of Pakistani troops and military supplies. American AID dollars are providing support of military action. In Teheran, due to local support of Pakistan, I was unable to wire you the information I am writing.

Fully recognizing the inability of our government to oppose actively or intervene in this desperate oppression of the Bengalis, I urge you to seek and support a condemnation by Congress and the President of the United States of the inhuman treatment being accorded the seventy-five million people of East Pakistan.

No political consideration can outweigh the importance of a humanitarian stand, reiterating the American belief in the value of individual lives and a democratic process of government. The action of President Yahya banning the democratically elected majority party, who had ninety-eight percent of the East Wings electorate backing them, ought to arouse a country which prides itself on the democratic process.

We urge you to speak out actively against the tragic massacre of civilians in East Pakistan.

Sincerely yours,

Jon E. Rohde, M.D.

(Bilal's note: Post 1971, Dr. Rohde headed up the ICDDRB - International Centre for Diarrhoeal Disease Research, Bangladesh, which is an international health research organisation located in Dhaka, Bangladesh. This organization has since inception dedicated itself to saving lives through research and treatment of some of the most critical health concerns facing the world today, ranging from improving neonatal survival to HIV/AIDS. Though initially focused on waterborne diseases like cholera and dysentery, its research activities span far wider. His compatriot and friend, Sir Fazle Hasan Abed, KCMG is a Bangladeshi social worker, the founder and chairman of BRAC, the world's largest non-governmental organization (NGO) with over 120,000 employees. For his contributions to social improvement, he has received the Ramon Magsaysay Award, the UNDP Mahbub Ul Haq Award, the inaugural Clinton Global Citizen Award and the inaugural WISE Prize for Education. In 2015, he received World Food Prize for his "unparalleled" work on reducing poverty in Bangladesh and 10 other countries.)

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## Bilal9

*In Pakistan, Some Flee to the East as Others Seek Haven in West*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
MARCH 18, 1971

DACCA, Pakistan, March 17 —Carrying all their belongings of value, their children balanced on their hips and cradled in their arms, nervous Bengalis are fleeing West Pakistan. Equally nervous Punjabis and other West Pakistanis are fleeing East Pakistan in reverse.

They fill the only two flights that still operate daily between East and West, now that the two wings of Pakistan—separated by more than 1,000 miles of Indian territory—are con fronting each other. The East Pakistanis threaten secession because of what they regard as years of exploitation by the Western wing.

Some West Pakistanis were killed in the rioting that fol lowed the central Government's recent postponement of the National Assembly, in which East Pakistan has a majority. The Assembly is based in West Pakistan.

There is no reliable estimate of the number of civilians killed. The central Government says that 172 civilians were killed and that many of these were killed by other civilians. Awami League officials put the toll in the thousands.

Conversely, some of the several hundred thousand Bengalis in West Pakistan have been attacked there. Several million West Pakistanis live in the East.

The two Pakistan International Airlines flights a day are the only escape route for the targets of this growing animosity unless they try to travel across India by rail or road— a process.

All other international air lines have stopped flying into Dacca, the East's capital, and some foreign countries have sent in special planes to evacuate their nationals.

Each of the two Pakistani round‐trip flights carries 160 people, which means 320 people each way, every day—so the waiting list is staggering.

At the Karachi Airport in West Pakistan the fleeing Bengalis—most of the mothers wearing the black barge veil of the traditional Moslem wife— jammed the waiting room. They did not talk of panic, but their faces betrayed their fears.

They were taking all their gold jewelry, their transistor radios, blankets and their best clothes. Some of the luggage was modern but more often it consisted of shopping bags tied together with string. Many had not bought return tickets.

The flight takes nearly six hours, twice the normal time because India has banned all Pakistani flights over her territory since early February, after two Kashmiris hijacked an Indian plane to Pakistan and blew it up there.

Now all Pakistani planes must go around India by southerly sea route, sometimes stopping in Ceylon to refuel.

Most of the Bengali passengers refused to give the real reason for their trip. “I am going home for rest and recreation,” one man said.

“My mother hasn't seen us for a long time,” said another. But one young Bengali who said that he was going home on “leave” was asked if he was afraid to stay in West Pakistan any longer. “Yes, I am afraid,” he said as if a weight had been lifted from him, adding, “One of my friends was attacked and beaten yesterday.”

Some of the Bengalis in West Pakistan have government jobs there but most work at factory jobs in and around Karachi, an industrial center.

The flight was uneventful except for the squalling of infants and the coos of harried mothers. But there was one telling moment.

As the Boeing 707 swept up the Bay of Bengal and came within sight of the East Pakistan coastline, the Bengalis rose from their seats en masse and pressed to the windows, their faces alight. They did not need a Statue of Liberty to tell them that they were home. “I have come home for peace,” said a man whose eyes had misted over.

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*Sheik Mujib Is Popular With His Hindu Neighbors*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
MARCH 16, 1971

CALCUTTA, India, March 8 —Sheik Mujibur Rahman, the East Pakistani leader, who is a Moslem, has become a folk hero to the Hindus of West Bengal, in India.

In coffee shops, in the streets, in living rooms, in a discothèques and on the front pages of Calcutta newspapers, Indians speak with pride of the 50‐Year‐old nationalist leader in 1965.

“His independent spirit, his concern for his downtrodden people ‐ that is what evokes great admiration from our people,” a West Bengal politician said in a comment typical of the praise heard here these days for Sheik Mujib.

He has taken a defiant stand against central government, which is based in West Pakistan and has long exploited the more populous but poorer eastern province. He and his Awami League party originally campaigned for provincial autonomy for East Pakistan, but recent events have made a declaration of independence, or something close to it, more likely.

Animosity Muted in Area

Although most Hindus left East Pakistan for West Bengal at the time of partition of the subcontinent into predominantly Hindu India and Moslem Pakistan in 1947, the Hindu Moslem animosity has always been more muted in this region than in West Pakistan, separated from East Pakistan by over a thousand miles of Indian territory.

Except for religion, the 75 million people of East Pakistan and the 44 million people of West Bengal share a common culture and language. They are all Bengalis, a small, lithe, brown‐skinned people whose favorite diet is fish and rice and whose favorite pastimes are literature and, politics. They have a common tongue, Bengali, and they are romantic, excitable and warm.

Many of the leading figures of West Bengal — businessmen, politicians, writers, officials — migrated here from East Pakistan, and they have a deep nostalgia for their homeland.

“We are proud of Mujib,” said a Calcutta doctor over coffee and sweets in his living room. “And why not? They are Bengalis and we are Bengalis. Our roots are the same.”

‘No Communal Bias’

“And Mujib has no communal bias,” the doctor's friend added, referring to the Hindu Moslem antagonisms.

Indian sentiment in general favors the East Pakistanis, who, unlike the West Pakistani Government, care little about the Kashmir Issue and would like to normalize trade with India. Such trade has been forbidden since the brief Kashmir war of 1965.

For all the sentimental warmth the West Bengalis feel for their neighbors, few would want to live in a nation dominated by Moslems.

The East Pakistani freedom movement has fanned the coals of nationalism in West Bengal, a chaotic and violent state where political murders are counted in the dozens every week. Some politicians, particularly the pro‐Peking Communists, who have a large following, have begun stressing the theme that the Government in New Delhi is callously neglecting and exploiting Bengal.

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*Leader in Dacca Rejects A ‘Concession’ by Yahya*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
MARCH 19, 1971

DACCA, Pakistan, March 18 —The leader of East Pakistan, Sheik Mujibur Rahman, today rejected as meaningless a West Pakistani “concession,” as West Pakistan increased its military build‐up in the East and the crisis between Pakistan's two sections hardened.

No further talks were held to day between Sheik Mujib and Pakistan's President, Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan. They had met inconclusively Tuesday and yesterday. Another meeting has been scheduled for tomorrow.

The outcome of their confrontations will determine whether East Pakistan—which has been dominated by the West since the Moslem nation was created in 1947 — will retain some limited links with the West under a loose structure or will break away completely and be come a separate nation. A move toward nationhood could meet with intervention by the Pakistani armed forces, whose West Pakistani generals do not want to lose their hold on the East. The two sections are separated by 1,000 miles of Indian territory.

Inquiry Into Killings

Last night the central Government's martial‐law administration here announced what was termed an investigation into killings by soldiers of East Pakistani civilians who protested in the streets when President Yahya, on March 1, postponed the March 3 session of the National Assembly, in which the East Pakistanis have a majority.

Such an inquiry was the least important of several concessions that Sheik Mujib has said must be given before he would consider attending the Assembly session, now rescheduled for March 25.

Sheik Mujib, in a statement, dismissed the inquiry as “a mere device to mislead the people.” He called on all East Pakistanis not to cooperate with the inquiry “in any respect,”

The East Pakistani leader, in his statement, indicated that even if the terms of the inquiry had been satisfactory, “piece meal acceptance” of his demands was not.

Build‐Up Intensified

The West Pakistani military build‐up in East Pakistan was intensified on several fronts. The sending of troops from the West on commercial flights, which had been suspended for about a week, was resumed.

Passengers on a Pakistan International Airways flight from Karachi to Dacca reported that at least 100 of the 160 seats were occupied by army men, most of them in civilian clothes

On Sheik Mujib's orders, most East Pakistanis have been refusing to sell or bring supplies to the garrisons—one facet of the Bengalis' noncooperation movement against the central Government. The movement has put Sheik Mujib in virtual control of East Pakistan.

Before the crisis, the central Government had some 25,000 troops in East Pakistan. The number now is estimated at 40,000 to 60,000.

Panicky rumors continue around Dacca. The latest is that the military is planning to bomb the city. Many families have already left Dacca for their home villages in the interior. This has reduced the demand for groceries and the prices of such items as chickens and eggs have dropped. Ricksha fares are also down.

Yet Bengali sources close to the situation stress that while the military build‐up could mean that the army intends to use massive force, it could also mean that President Yahya, realizing he must make concessions, is using a show of force to try to strengthen his bargaining position.

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## Bengal71

Bilal9 said:


> *In Pakistan, Some Flee to the East as Others Seek Haven in West*
> By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
> MARCH 18, 1971
> 
> DACCA, Pakistan, March 17 —Carrying all their belongings of value, their children balanced on their hips and cradled in their arms, nervous Bengalis are fleeing West Pakistan. Equally nervous Punjabis and other West Pakistanis are fleeing East Pakistan in reverse.
> 
> They fill the only two flights that still operate daily between East and West, now that the two wings of Pakistan—separated by more than 1,000 miles of Indian territory—are con fronting each other. The East Pakistanis threaten secession because of what they regard as years of exploitation by the Western wing.
> 
> Some West Pakistanis were killed in the rioting that fol lowed the central Government's recent postponement of the National Assembly, in which East Pakistan has a majority. The Assembly is based in West Pakistan.
> 
> There is no reliable estimate of the number of civilians killed. The central Government says that 172 civilians were killed and that many of these were killed by other civilians. Awami League officials put the toll in the thousands.
> 
> Conversely, some of the several hundred thousand Bengalis in West Pakistan have been attacked there. Several million West Pakistanis live in the East.
> 
> The two Pakistan International Airlines flights a day are the only escape route for the targets of this growing animosity unless they try to travel across India by rail or road— a process.
> 
> All other international air lines have stopped flying into Dacca, the East's capital, and some foreign countries have sent in special planes to evacuate their nationals.
> 
> Each of the two Pakistani round‐trip flights carries 160 people, which means 320 people each way, every day—so the waiting list is staggering.
> 
> At the Karachi Airport in West Pakistan the fleeing Bengalis—most of the mothers wearing the black barge veil of the traditional Moslem wife— jammed the waiting room. They did not talk of panic, but their faces betrayed their fears.
> 
> They were taking all their gold jewelry, their transistor radios, blankets and their best clothes. Some of the luggage was modern but more often it consisted of shopping bags tied together with string. Many had not bought return tickets.
> 
> The flight takes nearly six hours, twice the normal time because India has banned all Pakistani flights over her territory since early February, after two Kashmiris hijacked an Indian plane to Pakistan and blew it up there.
> 
> Now all Pakistani planes must go around India by southerly sea route, sometimes stopping in Ceylon to refuel.
> 
> Most of the Bengali passengers refused to give the real reason for their trip. “I am going home for rest and recreation,” one man said.
> 
> “My mother hasn't seen us for a long time,” said another. But one young Bengali who said that he was going home on “leave” was asked if he was afraid to stay in West Pakistan any longer. “Yes, I am afraid,” he said as if a weight had been lifted from him, adding, “One of my friends was attacked and beaten yesterday.”
> 
> Some of the Bengalis in West Pakistan have government jobs there but most work at factory jobs in and around Karachi, an industrial center.
> 
> The flight was uneventful except for the squalling of infants and the coos of harried mothers. But there was one telling moment.
> 
> As the Boeing 707 swept up the Bay of Bengal and came within sight of the East Pakistan coastline, the Bengalis rose from their seats en masse and pressed to the windows, their faces alight. They did not need a Statue of Liberty to tell them that they were home. “I have come home for peace,” said a man whose eyes had misted over.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Sheik Mujib Is Popular With His Hindu Neighbors*
> By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
> MARCH 16, 1971
> 
> CALCUTTA, India, March 8 —Sheik Mujibur Rahman, the East Pakistani leader, who is a Moslem, has become a folk hero to the Hindus of West Bengal, in India.
> 
> In coffee shops, in the streets, in living rooms, in a discothèques and on the front pages of Calcutta newspapers, Indians speak with pride of the 50‐Year‐old nationalist leader in 1965.
> 
> “His independent spirit, his concern for his downtrodden people ‐ that is what evokes great admiration from our people,” a West Bengal politician said in a comment typical of the praise heard here these days for Sheik Mujib.
> 
> He has taken a defiant stand against central government, which is based in West Pakistan and has long exploited the more populous but poorer eastern province. He and his Awami League party originally campaigned for provincial autonomy for East Pakistan, but recent events have made a declaration of independence, or something close to it, more likely.
> 
> Animosity Muted in Area
> 
> Although most Hindus left East Pakistan for West Bengal at the time of partition of the subcontinent into predominantly Hindu India and Moslem Pakistan in 1947, the Hindu Moslem animosity has always been more muted in this region than in West Pakistan, separated from East Pakistan by over a thousand miles of Indian territory.
> 
> Except for religion, the 75 million people of East Pakistan and the 44 million people of West Bengal share a common culture and language. They are all Bengalis, a small, lithe, brown‐skinned people whose favorite diet is fish and rice and whose favorite pastimes are literature and, politics. They have a common tongue, Bengali, and they are romantic, excitable and warm.
> 
> Many of the leading figures of West Bengal — businessmen, politicians, writers, officials — migrated here from East Pakistan, and they have a deep nostalgia for their homeland.
> 
> “We are proud of Mujib,” said a Calcutta doctor over coffee and sweets in his living room. “And why not? They are Bengalis and we are Bengalis. Our roots are the same.”
> 
> ‘No Communal Bias’
> 
> “And Mujib has no communal bias,” the doctor's friend added, referring to the Hindu Moslem antagonisms.
> 
> Indian sentiment in general favors the East Pakistanis, who, unlike the West Pakistani Government, care little about the Kashmir Issue and would like to normalize trade with India. Such trade has been forbidden since the brief Kashmir war of 1965.
> 
> For all the sentimental warmth the West Bengalis feel for their neighbors, few would want to live in a nation dominated by Moslems.
> 
> The East Pakistani freedom movement has fanned the coals of nationalism in West Bengal, a chaotic and violent state where political murders are counted in the dozens every week. Some politicians, particularly the pro‐Peking Communists, who have a large following, have begun stressing the theme that the Government in New Delhi is callously neglecting and exploiting Bengal.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Leader in Dacca Rejects A ‘Concession’ by Yahya*
> By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
> MARCH 19, 1971
> 
> DACCA, Pakistan, March 18 —The leader of East Pakistan, Sheik Mujibur Rahman, today rejected as meaningless a West Pakistani “concession,” as West Pakistan increased its military build‐up in the East and the crisis between Pakistan's two sections hardened.
> 
> No further talks were held to day between Sheik Mujib and Pakistan's President, Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan. They had met inconclusively Tuesday and yesterday. Another meeting has been scheduled for tomorrow.
> 
> The outcome of their confrontations will determine whether East Pakistan—which has been dominated by the West since the Moslem nation was created in 1947 — will retain some limited links with the West under a loose structure or will break away completely and be come a separate nation. A move toward nationhood could meet with intervention by the Pakistani armed forces, whose West Pakistani generals do not want to lose their hold on the East. The two sections are separated by 1,000 miles of Indian territory.
> 
> Inquiry Into Killings
> 
> Last night the central Government's martial‐law administration here announced what was termed an investigation into killings by soldiers of East Pakistani civilians who protested in the streets when President Yahya, on March 1, postponed the March 3 session of the National Assembly, in which the East Pakistanis have a majority.
> 
> Such an inquiry was the least important of several concessions that Sheik Mujib has said must be given before he would consider attending the Assembly session, now rescheduled for March 25.
> 
> Sheik Mujib, in a statement, dismissed the inquiry as “a mere device to mislead the people.” He called on all East Pakistanis not to cooperate with the inquiry “in any respect,”
> 
> The East Pakistani leader, in his statement, indicated that even if the terms of the inquiry had been satisfactory, “piece meal acceptance” of his demands was not.
> 
> Build‐Up Intensified
> 
> The West Pakistani military build‐up in East Pakistan was intensified on several fronts. The sending of troops from the West on commercial flights, which had been suspended for about a week, was resumed.
> 
> Passengers on a Pakistan International Airways flight from Karachi to Dacca reported that at least 100 of the 160 seats were occupied by army men, most of them in civilian clothes
> 
> On Sheik Mujib's orders, most East Pakistanis have been refusing to sell or bring supplies to the garrisons—one facet of the Bengalis' noncooperation movement against the central Government. The movement has put Sheik Mujib in virtual control of East Pakistan.
> 
> Before the crisis, the central Government had some 25,000 troops in East Pakistan. The number now is estimated at 40,000 to 60,000.
> 
> Panicky rumors continue around Dacca. The latest is that the military is planning to bomb the city. Many families have already left Dacca for their home villages in the interior. This has reduced the demand for groceries and the prices of such items as chickens and eggs have dropped. Ricksha fares are also down.
> 
> Yet Bengali sources close to the situation stress that while the military build‐up could mean that the army intends to use massive force, it could also mean that President Yahya, realizing he must make concessions, is using a show of force to try to strengthen his bargaining position.




Good that you are posting these. The tout Pakistanis have been lying for long.

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## Bilal9

Bengal71 said:


> Good that you are posting these. The tout Pakistanis have been lying for long.



Well Thanks. These are official NY Times reports filled with great details (minutiae) and can be seen as neutral and factual as seen by a Westerner. There is a heck of a lot more that needs to be posted in the series and I have made an effort to be neutral (in any comments) instead of being biased as a Bangladeshi.

This guy's (Schanberg) understanding of our politics was (and remains) extremely clear. Maybe both former East and West Pakistanis can understand the actual reasons behind and leading up to December 1971 through these reports.

I am pretty sure that a lot of what was going on in 1971 was not available as news in West Pakistan and later swept under the rug by controlling the media.

*A Nation on the Verge Of Flying Apart; Pakistan *

— SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
MARCH 21, 1971

DACCA, Pakistan—“If you are united, there is no power on earth which can prevent you from getting Pakistan.”

These words were spoken to a Bengali crowd in East Pakistan 25 years ago by Mohammad All Jinnah, head of the Muslim League and father of the unlikely two‐part country known as Pakistan, whose east and west wings are separated not only by 1,000 miles of Indian territory but also by their different cultures and languages.

Pakistan came into being in 1947, a year after the late Mr. Jinnah's speech, but if the East Pakistanis ever shared any of his feelings of unity, that day Is long past. The two wings are now con fronting each other like two enemy countries.

In this recent escalation of animosity, the 75 million Bengalis of East Pakistan, led by Sheik Mujibur Rahman, have taken de facto control of their province, defying the martial‐law regime imposed here by the central Government in West Pakistan and obeying only the directives of the Sheik and his Awami League party.

The armed forces, an instrument of West Pakistan, have reinforced their garrisons in the East; tension is high and many Bengalis fear an army bloodbath to prevent them from gaining independence, or even a large measure of self rule. Clashes between civilians and West Pakistani soldiers erupt occasionally.

Gen. Yahya Khan Army Commander‐in‐Chief and the President of Pakistan since he took over as martial‐law ruler after the fall of the Ayub Khan Government amid bloody riots two years ago— has flown here from the West to try to resolve the crisis through talks with Sheik Mujibur.

The talks are really moving now, after several days of little discernible progress. But few details are known, and it is difficult to tell what formula of self ‐ rule will emerge to satisfy East Pakistan's determination to end the long domination and economic exploitation by West Pakistan.

The Sheik's Student and worker followers have been screaming for total independence since early this month, when West Pakistani troops killed scores of Bengali civilians.

The Bengalis had been staging protest demonstrations against President Yahya's last ‐ minute postponement of the National Assembly, in which more populous East Pakistan had won a clear majority in national elections last December.

Sheik Mujibur would settle for something just, short of independence—perhaps for two largely self‐ruling regions and a central government with powers restricted to defense and some foreign policy matters.

The present speculation— and in this mercurial situation it could change over night—is that the talks will produce some temporary arrangement for transferring power from the military to civilians. This could mean the establishment of interim governments in each of the five provinces (the four provinces of West Pakistan, plus East Pakistan) until the National Assembly, now re-scheduled to convene on Thursday, adopts a new constitutional structure, for the country.

After the Army killings early this month, the Sheik made some new demands, including immediate transfer of power to the people's representatives and the lifting of martial law. It is expected that martial law will be softened, if not lifted, during the interim period.

The confrontation across the bargaining table in Dacca is ironic in that Sheik Mujibur and President Yahya are not enemies. General Yahya was the first Pakistani President to acknowledge the West's exploitation of the East and to try to do some thing to end it by holding elections according to the one‐man, one‐vote procedure, which gave East Pakistan the dominant voice.

That comprehension of East Pakistan's grievances is one reason for hope for a break in the deadlock.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Top West Pakistan Leader Talks With Yahya in Dacca*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
MARCH 22, 1971

DACCA, Pakistan, March 21— West Pakistan's dominant political leader, Zulfikar All Bhutto, the last awaited participant in the talks here over East Pakistan's demands for self rule, arrived in Dacca today under heavy military guard. Hostile crowds of East Pakistanis waved fists and shouted, “Murderer Bhutto, go home!”

A few hours after his arrival, Mr. Bhutto, a former Foreign Minister, had a meeting with President Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan, but details of the discussions were not disclosed.

The leader of East Pakistan, Sheik Mujibur Rahman, also held an unscheduled meeting with President Yahya, as a resolution of the crisis between the country's eastern and western wings appeared to be nearing. Sheik Mujib is scheduled to meet with the President again tomorrow.

Many knowledgeable observers now believe that a temporary solution will emerge from the talks, in which interim civilian governments will be set up in the country's five provinces—East Pakistan plus the four provinces of West Pakistan — until the recently elected National Assembly can draft a new constitutional structure for the nation.

Since East Pakistan has a clear majority in the assembly, such a constitution, it is believed, would grant East Pakistan the full program demand ed by Sheik Mujib and his party, the Awami League.

This program would give East Pakistan broad control over its own affairs; it would be linked to the western wing, which is separated from the east by 1,000 miles of Indian territory, only by a weak central government with limited powers restricted to defense and some foreign policy matters.

Sheik Mujib has told confidants that he now expects to get more than the program he originally laid down. He recently issued some new demands to the central Government in West Pakistan, including the lifting of martial law, which has been in effect for two years, and the transfer of power to “peoples representatives,” that is, the elected members of the assembly.

Yet the belief is widespread here that the East Pakistanis' grievances over their long, domination by the western region are so deep that no matter what compromise may be worked out now, it will break down before long and the next push will be for complete independence.

Mr. Bhutto, the leader of the Pakistan Peoples' party, has become a prime target for the East Pakistani discontent. The Bengali population here largely blames him for the present trouble.

*The crisis began on March 1 when President Yahya—under pressure from Mr. Bhutto and also from military and business interests that do not want to lose their hold on the East— postponed the National Assembly session that had been scheduled to open in Dacca on March 3.*

In the protest demonstrations that followed in East Pakistan, West Pakistani troops killed many civilians. Since then the Bengalis have defied the martial law regime imposed here by the, central Government, and Sheik Mujib and his party have taken de facto control of the province, calling it Bangla Desh, the Bengal Nation.

The Bengalis have a new flag of their own, which they plan to unveil in great numbers on Tuesday, Pakistan Day, when countless Bangla Desh demonstrations are planned. The flag has a forest green background with a red circle in the middle; on the circle is a map of East Pakistan in gold.

President Yahya has scheduled a speech for Tuesday, and some observers think he will use it to announce an agreement. Thursday is the new date he has set for the opening of the National Assembly and it is assumed he would prefer not to postpone it again.

Except for Mr. Bhutto, who appeared to be using delaying tactics, all the major political leaders in West Pakistan flew to the East last week to hold talks separately with Sheik Mujib and the President.

When Mr. Bhutto — whose party has 81 seats in the National Assembly compared with the Awami League's majority strength of 160—flew into the East Pakistani capital this afternoon with a large entourage, the military forces gave him heavy protection.

As he and his troop escort drove into town from the airport, Bengalis along the route jeered and cursed him. When he reached the Hotel Intercontinental, where he is staying, another hostile crowd tried to swarm around him. Soldiers with automatic weapons and a civilian bodyguard with a sub machine gun forced a path through the hotel lobby to the elevator, as the Bengalis glared hatred at him and screamed, “Get out of Bangla Desh!” and “Joi Bangla!” or “Victory for Bengal!”

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## Bilal9

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*EAST PAKISTANIS UNVEIL NEW FLAG*
By SYDNEY A. SCHANDERG
MARCH 24, 1971

DACCA, Pakistan, March 23 : The President of Pakistan, who has spent eight days in the eastern wing of his country under heavy protection, came out of his walled compound for the first time today for heavily protected drive to the military cantonment on the edge of the city.

Elsewhere in Dacca and throughout the province of East Pakistan the Bengali population celebreted “resistance day“— resistance to the martial‐law regime imposed by the West Pakistan‐dominated central Government—and unveiled the new flag of “Bangla Desh,” the so called Bengal nation.

Those scenes — a President unable to travel in what is supposed to be his own country without a cordon of weapons, 70 million of his people virtually declaring secession on their own—put into focus the strangeness of the crisis that has threatened to split this Moslem country in two.

The mood, the slogans and the talk in the streets are all for independence, while at the bargaining table the three participants are still talking about trying to hold the two wings together, by however tenuous a link.

No Signs of Real Progress

The tortuous negotiations over East Pakistan's demands for self‐rule continued, and all sides kept repeating that some progress was being made. What is going on outside the talks makes it difficult to believe, however, that any compromise agreement will alter what has already happened — the take over of the province, in effect, by the Bengali people, led by Sheik Mujibur Rahman and his Awami League party.

Awami League sources said the talks were at a delicate stage. The party will wait a few days more, they added, and if an agreement cannot be reached by then on its demands for ending the western wing's long domination of the East, they will go their own way. The phrase was not further explained.

The other participants in the talks are the President, Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan, representing the army, which has ruled under martial law for two years, and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, dominant political leader in West Pakistan, who heads the Pakistan People's party.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*ARTILLERY USED; Civilians Fired Upon, Sections of Dacca Are Set Ablaze*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
MARCH 28, 1971

DACCA, Pakistan, March 27 —The Pakistani Army is using artillery and heavy machine guns against unarmed East Pakistani civilians to crush the movement for autonomy in this province of 75 million people.

The attack began late Thursday night without warning. West Pakistani soldiers, who predominate in the army, moved into the streets of Dacca, the provincial capital, to besiege the strongholds of the independence movement, such as the university.

There was no way of knowing how many civilians had been killed or wounded. Neither was any Information available on what was happening in the rest of the province, although there had been reports before the Dacca attack of clashes between civilians and West Pakistani soldiers in the interior.

Mr. Schanberg was one of 35 foreign newsmen expelled Saturday morning from East Pakistan. He cabled this dispatch from Bombay, India.

The firing here was at first sporadic, but by 1 A.M. yesterday it had become heavy and nearly continuous, and it remained that way for three hours. Scores of artillery bursts were seen and heard by foreign newsmen confined to the Intercontinental Hotel on threat of death.

From the hotel, which is in North Dacca, bilge fires could be seen in various parts of the city, including the University Dacca.

In a broadcast, Sheik Mujib was said to have denied a West Pakistani radio report that he had been arrested. “I'm free and all right,” he was quoted as having said. “Comrades, go ahead with your program to achieve the goal of freedom. Do not be misguided by enemy propaganda.”

The fighting between the troops of the central Government in West Pakistan and the East Pakistanis was reported to have erupted yesterday. A proclamation of the East's independence, attributed to Sheik Mujib, was also reported then.

Sheik Mujib has been campaigning for autonomy for East Pakistan, which his followers now call Bangla Desh—Bengali for Bengal Nation. The autonomy movement in the eastern wing of Pakistan, which is separated from the western wing by 1,000 miles of India, is based on the two sections' completely different cultures, languages and physical features as well as on the fact that the western wing has dominated the eastern since the Moslem country was carved from the Indian subcontinent in 1947.

Assembly Postponed

Pakistan's President, Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan, in nationwide radio broadcast last night, charged Sheik Mujib and his followers with treason and outlawed the Awami League. In three weeks of strikes and other protests against the central Government, it had in effect gained control of the region from the martial‐law authorities.

The Awami League's protest had been directed against President Yahya's decision to postpone the March 3 opening of the National Assembly, which the league would have dominated, to start drafting a constitution to return Pakistan to civilian rule.

President Yahya said in his speech that he was ordering the army to restore the Government's authority to save Pakistan's integrity. President Yahya had been in Dacca for 10 days, discussing the political crisis with Sheik Mujib and political leaders from West Pakistan. He slipped out of Dacca unannounced on Thursday and flew back to West Pakistan.

The negotiations over East Pakistan's demands for self‐rule had broken down on Thursday afternoon, although this was not known until the Army went into action.

The President said that It had been his “keenness to arrive at a peaceful solution” that kept him from taking action against Sheik Mujib “weeks ago.”

For 17 days, ever since the Army killed scores of demonstrators, the Bengali population had supported Sheik Mujib in refusing to cooperate with the martial‐law regime.

In his speech, President Yahya said the Army had been “subjected to taunts and insults of all kinds.”

“I compliment them on their great restraint and sense of discipline,” he continued. “I am proud of them.”

Indian news agencies remained the major source of news from East Pakistan. After the martial‐law administration imposed strict censorship on reporters in Dacca, news began to come out from many Indian towns bordering East Pakistan.

Sheik Mujib's forces were said to have effectively obstructed the movement of Pakistani troops by blowing up bridges and railroads; even in normal times, East Pakistan, crisscrossed by many rivers, is difficult terrain in which to move fast. Central Pakistani forces were also said to be handicapped by inadequate stocks of gasoline. The supplies must be brought in by air from West Pakistan.

Reports of More Troops

News reports quoting East Pakistani sources said that West Pakistan was flying more troops into Dacca's airport to reinforce the 70,000 men already in the East. Meanwhile new martial‐law regulations were broadcast to warn people against putting up barricades on roads and on airport run ways.

According to one report of the fighting, Pakistani Government troops were forced to withdraw with heavy casualties after attacking a center of the East Pakistan Rifles in Khulna.

In Daulatpur, near Khulna, West Pakistani troops were re ported to have fired into a crowd, killing 90 civilians. Re ports also said that West Pakistani soldiers were shelling and burning houses and factories as Awami League volunteers poured into towns from their villages and attacked the troops.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Heavy Killing Reported*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
MARCH 30, 1971

NEW DELHI, March 29—In its battle to put down the independence movement in East Pakistan, the Pakistani army has resorted to widespread killings of civilians, according to reports reaching here today from unimpeachable foreign diplomatic sources in Dacca.

These reports were confined to Dacca, a city of 1,500,000 people, and all the reports were confined to events up to Saturday night. The army attack began on Thursday night.

The following is a verbatim report relayed to New Delhi from these sources:

“Tanti Bazaar and Sankhari Bazaar areas of Dacca, inhabited by more than 10,000 people, were surrounded by the army. Houses were set on fire and people were being butchered. Even residents fleeing the area have not been spared.”

Another report from other highly reliable foreign diplomatic source in Dacca said the office of Ittefaq, a Bengali‐language daily newspaper, was burned with 40 persons inside.

There have been reports from the interior telling of killings of civilians, some later than Saturday, but these reports do not come from diplomatic sources and are impossible to evaluate.

Diplomatic sources in Dacca report they have received what they consider reliable reports from the interior that heavy fighting is going on in some areas between the army and civilian resistance forces, with the army strafing from the air and using tanks and heavy artillery on the ground.

The over‐all death toll is not known. The Clandestine Radio of the Resistance Movement said that 300,000 East Pakistanis were killed by West Pakistani troops in the first 48 hours of the army's attack.

Widely conflicting reports about who is winning in East Pakistan continue to flow into New Delhi. Because of a black out of all normal news channels and communications from East Pakistan, it is impossible to tell from these unverifiable reports whether the Pakistani Army is in control and the province relatively calm, as it asserts, or whether the civilian resistance has made the army's position desperate, as the resistance has said in its clandestine broadcasts.

The fighting in East Pakistan began last Thursday night when the Pakistani army, without warning, attacked civilian population centers in an effort to crush the province's nonviolent movement for autonomy. The army units—all West Pakistani troops—opened fire with artillery, rockets and machine guns.

Since then, a resistance effort has been launched, with East Pakistani policemen and a militia called the East Pakistan Rifles fighting the army with the aid of civilians armed with knives, sticks and homemade guns.

The current crisis goes back to a decision by President Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan to postpone the meeting of the National Assembly that was to have begun to draft a constitution ending military rule.

That meeting would have been dominated by East Pakistan's principal party, the Awami League of Sheik Mujibur Rahman, which had won a clear majority in elections in December with its demands for regional autonomy.

The decision to postpone the session touched off protest demonstrations, strikes and rioting in East Pakistan, and I the army was reported to have killed scores of Bengalis. The Awami League gradually took control in East Pakistan.

Negotiations were then begun involving the President, Sheik Mujib, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, the dominant political leader of West Pakistan. Despite public reports of progress as late as last Tuesday, authoritative sources now say that West Pakistani interests had decided from the start not to yield their hold on East Pakistan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*CONSUL URGES U.S. START EVACUATION IN EAST PAKISTAN*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
MARCH 31, 1971

NEW DELHI, March 30—The United States consul general in East Pakistan has asked Washington to evacuate all American women and children and some of the men from the province, where the Pakistani armed forces are fighting an independence movement.

Reports from the highest authority said that the consul general, Archer K. Blood, made the recommendation to Washington yesterday or today on the ground that foreigners are no longer safe in East Pakistan. There are about 1,000 Americans in East Pakistan.

[United States officials in Washington said the Administration had not yet made a, final decision and that therefore the Pakistani Government had not been asked for official permission for evacuation planes to land at Dacca. They said that the State Department was in continuing communication with the Consulate General in the East Pakistani capital and that the city was reported to be, quiet.]

Action Began Last Week

*Some officials at the United States Embassy in New Delhi were reportedly characterizing the events in East Pakistan, as “a massacre” of civilians there by West Pakistani troops. The embassy is believed to have official information on events there.*

The military action in East Pakistan began last Thursday night. However, some foreign missions in Dacca evacuated their women, children and nonessential men early this month when the first fears of widespread violence in the province arose.

The British, are reportedly coordinating their evacuation plans with the Americans. In London, the Foreign Office said that no steps had yet been taken to carry out the planning but that the situation was being kept under constant review.

Meanwhile, the reports on what is happening in East Pakistan continued to be wildly conflicting.

The Government, through the Pakistan radio in West Pakistan, said the situation in all the major towns and the entire countryside of East Pakistan was normal, with the military in control. Broadcasts by the resistance movement said the troops from West Pakistan were retreating everywhere, with the resistance troops in control of most parts of the province, including Dacca.

However, most independent reports reaching New Delhi indicate that in Dacca at least the army is in fairly firm control. A group of Yugoslav evacuees whose plane stopped in New Delhi on its way to Belgrade said the situation in Dacca was generally quiet, but tense.

Curfew Ends in Daytime

They said that large numbers of West Pakistani soldiers were patrolling the city but that the curfew had been lifted during daytime hours. They said they had seen shops open on their way to the airport.

Making it difficult to evaluate many of the reports on events in East Pakistan is the fact that all foreign newsmen were expelled from there last weekend and that there has been a total blackout there of all normal news channels. In addition, all dispatches from West Pakistan are subject to strict censorship.

The Pakistan radio reported that the Pakistani Government had lodged its second protest in three days with India, accusing the New Delhi Government of “continued interference in Pakistan's internal affairs.” The protest objected especially to the Indian press reports coming from points near the East Pakistani border that are continuing to report heavy fighting by resistance groups against the army.

Shootings Reported

Unimpeachable independent sources in New Delhi said that in the early stages of the fighting the army had dragged high, officials of the nationalist movement out of their houses and shot them dead. These sources described the officials as leaders of the Awami League, East Pakistan's dominant political party, but said they had not included Shiek Mujibur Rahman, the party chief and political leader of East Pakistan.

The army says it arrested Sheik Mujib last Friday morning at his Dacca residence, but a radio station that says it is the voice of the resistance movement says he is alive and free.

Also according to the independent sources, three British subjects were lined up by the army against a wall in Dacca for execution when diplomats from the British mission arrived in time to save them. The three men were not members of the mission.

The sources also reported “eyewitness accounts” of “massacres of civilians” by West Pakistani troops in areas throughout East Pakistan. These killings are still going on, the sources said.

Broadcasts attributed to the resistance movement said that the Pakistani Army's “invading forces” had virtually destroyed the port city of Chittagong by a concentrated sea, air and artillery bombardment but that the “freedom fighters”, were still holding out there.

A Differing Account

The. Pakistan radio, on the other hand, said the situation in Chittagong, like that in, the rest of the province, was normal.

“Some miscreants who created disturbances have been effectively put down,” it added.

While the military action in East Pakistan began last Thursday night with an attack by West Pakistani troops on civilian population centers, the current crisis dates from March 1.

On that date, President Agha, Mohammad Yahya Khan postponed a session of the National Assembly that was to have met two, days later to begin drafting a constitution returning the nation to civilian rule. That assembly, elected in December, was dominated by Sheik Mujib's Awami League, which wanted regional autonomy.

During three weeks of strikes and other protest action, Sheik Mujib's party in effect assumed control of East Pakistan. The army struck Thursday night to reassert the central military Government's authority.

Two Wings Separated

The army's biggest problem, it appears, will be the hostility, widespread among the 75 million East Pakistanis, who have long been dominated by the vested interests of the western wing, with its minority population of 55 million people. The, two parts of the country are separated by 1,000 miles of Indian territory.

Refugees fleeing the West Pakistani Army are beginning to cross into India in large numbers, and the Indian Government is mobilizing a relief effort in concert with international agencies.

Sympathy for the Bengalis, as the East Pakistanis are called, is widespread in India. Many politicians, are pressing the Government to recognize the government of Bangla Desh — Bengali for Bengal Nation. Prime Minister Indira Gandhi is expected to move a resolution of solidarity with the Bengalis in Parliament tomorrow.

*All Part Of a Game – a Grim and Deadly One *
— SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
APRIL 4, 1971

NEW DELHI—“All of it's necessary, absolutely necessary,” a West Pakistani stewardess lectured some expelled foreign newsmen about the Pakistani Army's offensive to crush the independence movement in East Pakistan. “If this happened in your country, you'd do the same thing. It's all part of the game.”

Pakistan: ‘All Part Of a Game’— a Grim and Deadly One

A game? To foreign newsmen in Dacca, it looked like a surprise attack with tanks, artillery and heavy machine guns against a virtually unarmed population —a population using tactics of nonviolence, mostly strikes and other forms of noncooperation, to claim the political majority it had won in last December's elections. And by this weekend enough credible reports of in discriminate killings had filtered out to leave little doubt, even in the minds of many dispassionate Indian officials and Western diplomats, that the Army of West Pakistan was under few restraints in putting down East Pakistani thoughts of autonomy.

*The attack began on the night of March 25, after 10 days of political negotiations in which the army and the rest of the West Pakistani power establishment had lulled the East Pakistani nationalists into thinking their demands for greater self‐rule would be granted.

It is clear now that the West Pakistanis never meant the talks to succeed, that they dragged them out only to buy time to get enough troop reinforcements over from West Pakistan to launch the attack. But while the talks went on, nearly every observer, from newsmen to diplomats, resisted the ugly thought that this might be true. The signs were all there—troops coming in by air and sea, the dismissal of a martial‐law administrator who was too lenient and the uncharacteristic silence of the army while the East Pakistanis boycotted the military regime and followed instead the directives of their leader, Sheik Mujibur Rahman.*

The newsmen reported these signs but when talk of “some progress” came out of the negotiations, they grasped upon that, because it was what should happen. They were wrong. Instead, the military mind prevailed.

Governments Silent

But in turning to force, the West Pakistani leaders apparently misjudged both its limitations and the depth of feeling of 75 million East Pakistanis. “They thought that a few bullets would scare the people off,” said Ranjit Gupta, the police commissioner in Calcutta, just across the border in India. “It is silly—it shows you how little the West Pakistanis know about East Pakistanis.”

Instead of the first shooting spree terrorizing the population into submission, it now seems apparent that while the army may be able initially to establish a hold on the cities and major towns, it will face wide spread guerrilla activity in the primitive riverine countryside. This could so undermine the supply lines and mobility of the West Pakistani troops that the independence movement would succeed.

In India, many sympathizers with the East Pakistani cause were quick to compare West Pakistan's military actions in East Pakistan with those of Hitler. “Pak Army's Inhuman Torture,” was the headline in one Calcutta newspaper. “Butchery,” said another, adding: “The vandalism unleashed by the occupying Pakistani army in Bangla Desh (Bengal Nation) is darker than even the darkest chapter of Nazi terror.” The Indian Parliament has called it “a massacre of defenseless people which amounts to genocide.”

Most of the other governments or the world have remained silent.

“Why doesn't your country condemn this outrage?”’ one official in Calcutta asked an American. “This is no tidal wave, this is no act of nature—it is people slaughtering people.”

The United States, which supplied the Pakistani military with its basic weapons and training from 1955 to 1965, has refused to release to the press accounts of army killings it has received from its consulate in Dacca, the East Pakistani Capital.

Britain has said she regrets the situation, but considers it an internal matter.

The Soviet Union has remained officially silent, although segments of the Soviet press have called the army's action “crude arbitrariness and violence.”

Communist China, Which has also been supplying Pakistan with arms in recent years, and has been wooing Pakistan hard, has said nothing.

U Thant, Secretary General of the United Nations, said after several days, of trouble in East Pakistan that he was “very much concerned about the loss of life and human suffering” and would help if the Pakistani Government asked him to assist “in humanitarian efforts,” Such a request seemed highly unlikely.

*One country, Ceylon, has helped the West Pakistani military offensive by granting refueling rights to planes flying to and from East Pakistan. The two wings of Pakistan are divided by over 1,000 miles of India, which banned Pakistani overflights in February. Without this assistance from Ceylon, military reinforcements and supplies for East Pakistan would have to be brought in by sea, and Indian officials and Western diplomats here believe this would severely hamper, if not cripple, the West Pakistani Army's campaign.*

Regardless of Ceylon's help to West Pakistan and the lack of help thus far to East Pakistan, there seems to be agreement here on two points—that the chances of East and West Pakistan remaining united appear nil, and that in the long run the West Pakistani Army, attempting to impose its government's will on the East Pakistanis, has little chance of success.

The Bengalis, as the people of East Pakistan are called, have stepped across a crucial line—a line that separated grumbling about their exploitation to fighting against the exploiters. The line may have been crossed on March 25, the night of the attack. Or perhaps it was crossed earlier, on March 1, when President Yahya Khan, Army Commander in Chief, postponed a session of the National Assembly that was to have convened two days later to begin drafting a Constitution returning the nation to civilian rule. *That Assembly, elected in December, was dominated by Sheik Mujib's Awami League party, which wanted a large measure of provincial autonomy — leaving the Central Government with power only over defense and foreign policy, but not foreign trade and aid.*

These terms were anathema to the West Pakistani power establishment—the army, the big business interests and the Politicians. In the political negotiations over the crisis, they started off by making conciliatory sounds and then brought in the Monkey wrench, Zulfikar All Bhutto, the dominant political leader of West Pakistan. When he objected that the Awami League wanted too much autonomy—“bordering on Sovereignty”—the talks began to stall. Then, suddenly, came the army attack.

The morning after the attack, Mr. Bhutto, and his aides, under heavy military protection, were flown back to friendly territory in West Pakistan, where the political leader promptly announced: “Pakistan has been saved by the grace of the Almighty.”

But it will take more than religious oratory to save Pakistan as a united Moslem country, Religion was the social glue that was supposed to have held the two wings together, but it was never enough.

1947 Partition

Pakistan, carved out of the Indian subcontinent in 1947 as the child of Hindu‐Moslem hostility, was intended as a home land for the Moslem Bengalis of East Pakistan and the Moslem Punjabis, Sindhis and Pathans of West Pakistan. But the 55 million West Pakistanis held all the political, economic and military power, and East Pakistan, although the majority wing, quickly became what amounted almost to an exploited colony, a golden market for the manufactured products of the western wing. Prices were higher in the east, income lower.

A severe racial and cultural gap also festered. The two wings of Pakistan have always been further apart in most important respects than most independent countries. In that sense, the Bengalis are fighting to dislodge from their soil a foreign occupation army.

It may take a long time, but none of the witnesses to the recent upsurge of Bengali nationalism and to the barbarism of the army attack doubts that it will happen. In the meantime, as Sheik Mujib was fond of chanting with the adoring crowds that thronged to his now razed house: “Sangram, sangram. Cholbey, cholbey.” “The fight will go on, The fight will go on.”

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## Nilgiri

Atlas said:


> Yes and It's little different case and not strong or rational logic here when we make a comparison of two migrants ,( in this sense Muslims are also African like Hindus) .
> 
> However we need to focus on archaeological evidences of Indus valley civilisation that was utterly destroyed by outsider Hindus ,and also from various books of the time . We already know the fight between aryans vs non aryans , we know that how Indra destroyed hundreds of cities and got the epithet of Purandar .
> 
> So I am afraid that this logic also apply for Aryans .



Aryans and vedic time dont imprint religious edifices completely foreign to the region today. Are the holy pilgrimage sites of dharmic religions outside the subcontinent for example?

So it is entirely different in scale and reach of what originated here and what invaded and imposed...not to mention the time and brutality involved.

There is no evidence for destruction of IVC by aryans either...in fact most evidence shows the main part of IVC collapsed well before the Aryan migration to the subcontinent.

Not to mention the dharmic religions of today I am talking of as indigenous evolved many streams downwards from the original vedic religion (so much so that much is not recognisable to vedic religion and even philosophy)....often combining local animism and postulated IVC remnant culture even.

Your religion allows for precisely zero of that kind of thing....because it in itself came about well after the iron age (the main civilisational process w.r.t writing history and developing culture that lasts to modern time) was over....and its whole intent was to conquer and dominate and become the sole culture for the world. Every bit of actual legal/political implementation of this religion illustrates this.

It comes down to its root to...what is the underlying concept of the fate of those that are not part of your system. Can they be morally good as well...can they reach your heaven? Or are they doomed to punishment? What is the equivalent for the dharmic religions?...why do they say all roads lead to the same goal in contrast (and that morality can be universal to every system of higher belief)?...this is all significant in the psyche in the end....and yes very much is why it can manifest as Hindu Bengalis having no interest in your Bengali larger state....they prefer their actual cultural kin where it matters the most.

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## Bengal71

Bilal9 said:


> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *EAST PAKISTANIS UNVEIL NEW FLAG*
> By SYDNEY A. SCHANDERG
> MARCH 24, 1971
> 
> DACCA, Pakistan, March 23 : The President of Pakistan, who has spent eight days in the eastern wing of his country under heavy protection, came out of his walled compound for the first time today for heavily protected drive to the military cantonment on the edge of the city.
> 
> Elsewhere in Dacca and throughout the province of East Pakistan the Bengali population celebreted “resistance day“— resistance to the martial‐law regime imposed by the West Pakistan‐dominated central Government—and unveiled the new flag of “Bangla Desh,” the so called Bengal nation.
> 
> Those scenes — a President unable to travel in what is supposed to be his own country without a cordon of weapons, 70 million of his people virtually declaring secession on their own—put into focus the strangeness of the crisis that has threatened to split this Moslem country in two.
> 
> The mood, the slogans and the talk in the streets are all for independence, while at the bargaining table the three participants are still talking about trying to hold the two wings together, by however tenuous a link.
> 
> No Signs of Real Progress
> 
> The tortuous negotiations over East Pakistan's demands for self‐rule continued, and all sides kept repeating that some progress was being made. What is going on outside the talks makes it difficult to believe, however, that any compromise agreement will alter what has already happened — the take over of the province, in effect, by the Bengali people, led by Sheik Mujibur Rahman and his Awami League party.
> 
> Awami League sources said the talks were at a delicate stage. The party will wait a few days more, they added, and if an agreement cannot be reached by then on its demands for ending the western wing's long domination of the East, they will go their own way. The phrase was not further explained.
> 
> The other participants in the talks are the President, Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan, representing the army, which has ruled under martial law for two years, and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, dominant political leader in West Pakistan, who heads the Pakistan People's party.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *ARTILLERY USED; Civilians Fired Upon, Sections of Dacca Are Set Ablaze*
> By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
> MARCH 28, 1971
> 
> DACCA, Pakistan, March 27 —The Pakistani Army is using artillery and heavy machine guns against unarmed East Pakistani civilians to crush the movement for autonomy in this province of 75 million people.
> 
> The attack began late Thursday night without warning. West Pakistani soldiers, who predominate in the army, moved into the streets of Dacca, the provincial capital, to besiege the strongholds of the independence movement, such as the university.
> 
> There was no way of knowing how many civilians had been killed or wounded. Neither was any Information available on what was happening in the rest of the province, although there had been reports before the Dacca attack of clashes between civilians and West Pakistani soldiers in the interior.
> 
> Mr. Schanberg was one of 35 foreign newsmen expelled Saturday morning from East Pakistan. He cabled this dispatch from Bombay, India.
> 
> The firing here was at first sporadic, but by 1 A.M. yesterday it had become heavy and nearly continuous, and it remained that way for three hours. Scores of artillery bursts were seen and heard by foreign newsmen confined to the Intercontinental Hotel on threat of death.
> 
> From the hotel, which is in North Dacca, bilge fires could be seen in various parts of the city, including the University Dacca.
> 
> In a broadcast, Sheik Mujib was said to have denied a West Pakistani radio report that he had been arrested. “I'm free and all right,” he was quoted as having said. “Comrades, go ahead with your program to achieve the goal of freedom. Do not be misguided by enemy propaganda.”
> 
> The fighting between the troops of the central Government in West Pakistan and the East Pakistanis was reported to have erupted yesterday. A proclamation of the East's independence, attributed to Sheik Mujib, was also reported then.
> 
> Sheik Mujib has been campaigning for autonomy for East Pakistan, which his followers now call Bangla Desh—Bengali for Bengal Nation. The autonomy movement in the eastern wing of Pakistan, which is separated from the western wing by 1,000 miles of India, is based on the two sections' completely different cultures, languages and physical features as well as on the fact that the western wing has dominated the eastern since the Moslem country was carved from the Indian subcontinent in 1947.
> 
> Assembly Postponed
> 
> Pakistan's President, Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan, in nationwide radio broadcast last night, charged Sheik Mujib and his followers with treason and outlawed the Awami League. In three weeks of strikes and other protests against the central Government, it had in effect gained control of the region from the martial‐law authorities.
> 
> The Awami League's protest had been directed against President Yahya's decision to postpone the March 3 opening of the National Assembly, which the league would have dominated, to start drafting a constitution to return Pakistan to civilian rule.
> 
> President Yahya said in his speech that he was ordering the army to restore the Government's authority to save Pakistan's integrity. President Yahya had been in Dacca for 10 days, discussing the political crisis with Sheik Mujib and political leaders from West Pakistan. He slipped out of Dacca unannounced on Thursday and flew back to West Pakistan.
> 
> The negotiations over East Pakistan's demands for self‐rule had broken down on Thursday afternoon, although this was not known until the Army went into action.
> 
> The President said that It had been his “keenness to arrive at a peaceful solution” that kept him from taking action against Sheik Mujib “weeks ago.”
> 
> For 17 days, ever since the Army killed scores of demonstrators, the Bengali population had supported Sheik Mujib in refusing to cooperate with the martial‐law regime.
> 
> In his speech, President Yahya said the Army had been “subjected to taunts and insults of all kinds.”
> 
> “I compliment them on their great restraint and sense of discipline,” he continued. “I am proud of them.”
> 
> Indian news agencies remained the major source of news from East Pakistan. After the martial‐law administration imposed strict censorship on reporters in Dacca, news began to come out from many Indian towns bordering East Pakistan.
> 
> Sheik Mujib's forces were said to have effectively obstructed the movement of Pakistani troops by blowing up bridges and railroads; even in normal times, East Pakistan, crisscrossed by many rivers, is difficult terrain in which to move fast. Central Pakistani forces were also said to be handicapped by inadequate stocks of gasoline. The supplies must be brought in by air from West Pakistan.
> 
> Reports of More Troops
> 
> News reports quoting East Pakistani sources said that West Pakistan was flying more troops into Dacca's airport to reinforce the 70,000 men already in the East. Meanwhile new martial‐law regulations were broadcast to warn people against putting up barricades on roads and on airport run ways.
> 
> According to one report of the fighting, Pakistani Government troops were forced to withdraw with heavy casualties after attacking a center of the East Pakistan Rifles in Khulna.
> 
> In Daulatpur, near Khulna, West Pakistani troops were re ported to have fired into a crowd, killing 90 civilians. Re ports also said that West Pakistani soldiers were shelling and burning houses and factories as Awami League volunteers poured into towns from their villages and attacked the troops.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Heavy Killing Reported*
> By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
> MARCH 30, 1971
> 
> NEW DELHI, March 29—In its battle to put down the independence movement in East Pakistan, the Pakistani army has resorted to widespread killings of civilians, according to reports reaching here today from unimpeachable foreign diplomatic sources in Dacca.
> 
> These reports were confined to Dacca, a city of 1,500,000 people, and all the reports were confined to events up to Saturday night. The army attack began on Thursday night.
> 
> The following is a verbatim report relayed to New Delhi from these sources:
> 
> “Tanti Bazaar and Sankhari Bazaar areas of Dacca, inhabited by more than 10,000 people, were surrounded by the army. Houses were set on fire and people were being butchered. Even residents fleeing the area have not been spared.”
> 
> Another report from other highly reliable foreign diplomatic source in Dacca said the office of Ittefaq, a Bengali‐language daily newspaper, was burned with 40 persons inside.
> 
> There have been reports from the interior telling of killings of civilians, some later than Saturday, but these reports do not come from diplomatic sources and are impossible to evaluate.
> 
> Diplomatic sources in Dacca report they have received what they consider reliable reports from the interior that heavy fighting is going on in some areas between the army and civilian resistance forces, with the army strafing from the air and using tanks and heavy artillery on the ground.
> 
> The over‐all death toll is not known. The Clandestine Radio of the Resistance Movement said that 300,000 East Pakistanis were killed by West Pakistani troops in the first 48 hours of the army's attack.
> 
> Widely conflicting reports about who is winning in East Pakistan continue to flow into New Delhi. Because of a black out of all normal news channels and communications from East Pakistan, it is impossible to tell from these unverifiable reports whether the Pakistani Army is in control and the province relatively calm, as it asserts, or whether the civilian resistance has made the army's position desperate, as the resistance has said in its clandestine broadcasts.
> 
> The fighting in East Pakistan began last Thursday night when the Pakistani army, without warning, attacked civilian population centers in an effort to crush the province's nonviolent movement for autonomy. The army units—all West Pakistani troops—opened fire with artillery, rockets and machine guns.
> 
> Since then, a resistance effort has been launched, with East Pakistani policemen and a militia called the East Pakistan Rifles fighting the army with the aid of civilians armed with knives, sticks and homemade guns.
> 
> The current crisis goes back to a decision by President Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan to postpone the meeting of the National Assembly that was to have begun to draft a constitution ending military rule.
> 
> That meeting would have been dominated by East Pakistan's principal party, the Awami League of Sheik Mujibur Rahman, which had won a clear majority in elections in December with its demands for regional autonomy.
> 
> The decision to postpone the session touched off protest demonstrations, strikes and rioting in East Pakistan, and I the army was reported to have killed scores of Bengalis. The Awami League gradually took control in East Pakistan.
> 
> Negotiations were then begun involving the President, Sheik Mujib, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, the dominant political leader of West Pakistan. Despite public reports of progress as late as last Tuesday, authoritative sources now say that West Pakistani interests had decided from the start not to yield their hold on East Pakistan.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *CONSUL URGES U.S. START EVACUATION IN EAST PAKISTAN*
> By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
> MARCH 31, 1971
> 
> NEW DELHI, March 30—The United States consul general in East Pakistan has asked Washington to evacuate all American women and children and some of the men from the province, where the Pakistani armed forces are fighting an independence movement.
> 
> Reports from the highest authority said that the consul general, Archer K. Blood, made the recommendation to Washington yesterday or today on the ground that foreigners are no longer safe in East Pakistan. There are about 1,000 Americans in East Pakistan.
> 
> [United States officials in Washington said the Administration had not yet made a, final decision and that therefore the Pakistani Government had not been asked for official permission for evacuation planes to land at Dacca. They said that the State Department was in continuing communication with the Consulate General in the East Pakistani capital and that the city was reported to be, quiet.]
> 
> Action Began Last Week
> 
> *Some officials at the United States Embassy in New Delhi were reportedly characterizing the events in East Pakistan, as “a massacre” of civilians there by West Pakistani troops. The embassy is believed to have official information on events there.*
> 
> The military action in East Pakistan began last Thursday night. However, some foreign missions in Dacca evacuated their women, children and nonessential men early this month when the first fears of widespread violence in the province arose.
> 
> The British, are reportedly coordinating their evacuation plans with the Americans. In London, the Foreign Office said that no steps had yet been taken to carry out the planning but that the situation was being kept under constant review.
> 
> Meanwhile, the reports on what is happening in East Pakistan continued to be wildly conflicting.
> 
> The Government, through the Pakistan radio in West Pakistan, said the situation in all the major towns and the entire countryside of East Pakistan was normal, with the military in control. Broadcasts by the resistance movement said the troops from West Pakistan were retreating everywhere, with the resistance troops in control of most parts of the province, including Dacca.
> 
> However, most independent reports reaching New Delhi indicate that in Dacca at least the army is in fairly firm control. A group of Yugoslav evacuees whose plane stopped in New Delhi on its way to Belgrade said the situation in Dacca was generally quiet, but tense.
> 
> Curfew Ends in Daytime
> 
> They said that large numbers of West Pakistani soldiers were patrolling the city but that the curfew had been lifted during daytime hours. They said they had seen shops open on their way to the airport.
> 
> Making it difficult to evaluate many of the reports on events in East Pakistan is the fact that all foreign newsmen were expelled from there last weekend and that there has been a total blackout there of all normal news channels. In addition, all dispatches from West Pakistan are subject to strict censorship.
> 
> The Pakistan radio reported that the Pakistani Government had lodged its second protest in three days with India, accusing the New Delhi Government of “continued interference in Pakistan's internal affairs.” The protest objected especially to the Indian press reports coming from points near the East Pakistani border that are continuing to report heavy fighting by resistance groups against the army.
> 
> Shootings Reported
> 
> Unimpeachable independent sources in New Delhi said that in the early stages of the fighting the army had dragged high, officials of the nationalist movement out of their houses and shot them dead. These sources described the officials as leaders of the Awami League, East Pakistan's dominant political party, but said they had not included Shiek Mujibur Rahman, the party chief and political leader of East Pakistan.
> 
> The army says it arrested Sheik Mujib last Friday morning at his Dacca residence, but a radio station that says it is the voice of the resistance movement says he is alive and free.
> 
> Also according to the independent sources, three British subjects were lined up by the army against a wall in Dacca for execution when diplomats from the British mission arrived in time to save them. The three men were not members of the mission.
> 
> The sources also reported “eyewitness accounts” of “massacres of civilians” by West Pakistani troops in areas throughout East Pakistan. These killings are still going on, the sources said.
> 
> Broadcasts attributed to the resistance movement said that the Pakistani Army's “invading forces” had virtually destroyed the port city of Chittagong by a concentrated sea, air and artillery bombardment but that the “freedom fighters”, were still holding out there.
> 
> A Differing Account
> 
> The. Pakistan radio, on the other hand, said the situation in Chittagong, like that in, the rest of the province, was normal.
> 
> “Some miscreants who created disturbances have been effectively put down,” it added.
> 
> While the military action in East Pakistan began last Thursday night with an attack by West Pakistani troops on civilian population centers, the current crisis dates from March 1.
> 
> On that date, President Agha, Mohammad Yahya Khan postponed a session of the National Assembly that was to have met two, days later to begin drafting a constitution returning the nation to civilian rule. That assembly, elected in December, was dominated by Sheik Mujib's Awami League, which wanted regional autonomy.
> 
> During three weeks of strikes and other protest action, Sheik Mujib's party in effect assumed control of East Pakistan. The army struck Thursday night to reassert the central military Government's authority.
> 
> Two Wings Separated
> 
> The army's biggest problem, it appears, will be the hostility, widespread among the 75 million East Pakistanis, who have long been dominated by the vested interests of the western wing, with its minority population of 55 million people. The, two parts of the country are separated by 1,000 miles of Indian territory.
> 
> Refugees fleeing the West Pakistani Army are beginning to cross into India in large numbers, and the Indian Government is mobilizing a relief effort in concert with international agencies.
> 
> Sympathy for the Bengalis, as the East Pakistanis are called, is widespread in India. Many politicians, are pressing the Government to recognize the government of Bangla Desh — Bengali for Bengal Nation. Prime Minister Indira Gandhi is expected to move a resolution of solidarity with the Bengalis in Parliament tomorrow.
> 
> *All Part Of a Game – a Grim and Deadly One *
> — SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
> APRIL 4, 1971
> 
> NEW DELHI—“All of it's necessary, absolutely necessary,” a West Pakistani stewardess lectured some expelled foreign newsmen about the Pakistani Army's offensive to crush the independence movement in East Pakistan. “If this happened in your country, you'd do the same thing. It's all part of the game.”
> 
> Pakistan: ‘All Part Of a Game’— a Grim and Deadly One
> 
> A game? To foreign newsmen in Dacca, it looked like a surprise attack with tanks, artillery and heavy machine guns against a virtually unarmed population —a population using tactics of nonviolence, mostly strikes and other forms of noncooperation, to claim the political majority it had won in last December's elections. And by this weekend enough credible reports of in discriminate killings had filtered out to leave little doubt, even in the minds of many dispassionate Indian officials and Western diplomats, that the Army of West Pakistan was under few restraints in putting down East Pakistani thoughts of autonomy.
> 
> *The attack began on the night of March 25, after 10 days of political negotiations in which the army and the rest of the West Pakistani power establishment had lulled the East Pakistani nationalists into thinking their demands for greater self‐rule would be granted.
> 
> It is clear now that the West Pakistanis never meant the talks to succeed, that they dragged them out only to buy time to get enough troop reinforcements over from West Pakistan to launch the attack. But while the talks went on, nearly every observer, from newsmen to diplomats, resisted the ugly thought that this might be true. The signs were all there—troops coming in by air and sea, the dismissal of a martial‐law administrator who was too lenient and the uncharacteristic silence of the army while the East Pakistanis boycotted the military regime and followed instead the directives of their leader, Sheik Mujibur Rahman.*
> 
> The newsmen reported these signs but when talk of “some progress” came out of the negotiations, they grasped upon that, because it was what should happen. They were wrong. Instead, the military mind prevailed.
> 
> Governments Silent
> 
> But in turning to force, the West Pakistani leaders apparently misjudged both its limitations and the depth of feeling of 75 million East Pakistanis. “They thought that a few bullets would scare the people off,” said Ranjit Gupta, the police commissioner in Calcutta, just across the border in India. “It is silly—it shows you how little the West Pakistanis know about East Pakistanis.”
> 
> Instead of the first shooting spree terrorizing the population into submission, it now seems apparent that while the army may be able initially to establish a hold on the cities and major towns, it will face wide spread guerrilla activity in the primitive riverine countryside. This could so undermine the supply lines and mobility of the West Pakistani troops that the independence movement would succeed.
> 
> In India, many sympathizers with the East Pakistani cause were quick to compare West Pakistan's military actions in East Pakistan with those of Hitler. “Pak Army's Inhuman Torture,” was the headline in one Calcutta newspaper. “Butchery,” said another, adding: “The vandalism unleashed by the occupying Pakistani army in Bangla Desh (Bengal Nation) is darker than even the darkest chapter of Nazi terror.” The Indian Parliament has called it “a massacre of defenseless people which amounts to genocide.”
> 
> Most of the other governments or the world have remained silent.
> 
> “Why doesn't your country condemn this outrage?”’ one official in Calcutta asked an American. “This is no tidal wave, this is no act of nature—it is people slaughtering people.”
> 
> The United States, which supplied the Pakistani military with its basic weapons and training from 1955 to 1965, has refused to release to the press accounts of army killings it has received from its consulate in Dacca, the East Pakistani Capital.
> 
> Britain has said she regrets the situation, but considers it an internal matter.
> 
> The Soviet Union has remained officially silent, although segments of the Soviet press have called the army's action “crude arbitrariness and violence.”
> 
> Communist China, Which has also been supplying Pakistan with arms in recent years, and has been wooing Pakistan hard, has said nothing.
> 
> U Thant, Secretary General of the United Nations, said after several days, of trouble in East Pakistan that he was “very much concerned about the loss of life and human suffering” and would help if the Pakistani Government asked him to assist “in humanitarian efforts,” Such a request seemed highly unlikely.
> 
> *One country, Ceylon, has helped the West Pakistani military offensive by granting refueling rights to planes flying to and from East Pakistan. The two wings of Pakistan are divided by over 1,000 miles of India, which banned Pakistani overflights in February. Without this assistance from Ceylon, military reinforcements and supplies for East Pakistan would have to be brought in by sea, and Indian officials and Western diplomats here believe this would severely hamper, if not cripple, the West Pakistani Army's campaign.*
> 
> Regardless of Ceylon's help to West Pakistan and the lack of help thus far to East Pakistan, there seems to be agreement here on two points—that the chances of East and West Pakistan remaining united appear nil, and that in the long run the West Pakistani Army, attempting to impose its government's will on the East Pakistanis, has little chance of success.
> 
> The Bengalis, as the people of East Pakistan are called, have stepped across a crucial line—a line that separated grumbling about their exploitation to fighting against the exploiters. The line may have been crossed on March 25, the night of the attack. Or perhaps it was crossed earlier, on March 1, when President Yahya Khan, Army Commander in Chief, postponed a session of the National Assembly that was to have convened two days later to begin drafting a Constitution returning the nation to civilian rule. *That Assembly, elected in December, was dominated by Sheik Mujib's Awami League party, which wanted a large measure of provincial autonomy — leaving the Central Government with power only over defense and foreign policy, but not foreign trade and aid.*
> 
> These terms were anathema to the West Pakistani power establishment—the army, the big business interests and the Politicians. In the political negotiations over the crisis, they started off by making conciliatory sounds and then brought in the Monkey wrench, Zulfikar All Bhutto, the dominant political leader of West Pakistan. When he objected that the Awami League wanted too much autonomy—“bordering on Sovereignty”—the talks began to stall. Then, suddenly, came the army attack.
> 
> The morning after the attack, Mr. Bhutto, and his aides, under heavy military protection, were flown back to friendly territory in West Pakistan, where the political leader promptly announced: “Pakistan has been saved by the grace of the Almighty.”
> 
> But it will take more than religious oratory to save Pakistan as a united Moslem country, Religion was the social glue that was supposed to have held the two wings together, but it was never enough.
> 
> 1947 Partition
> 
> Pakistan, carved out of the Indian subcontinent in 1947 as the child of Hindu‐Moslem hostility, was intended as a home land for the Moslem Bengalis of East Pakistan and the Moslem Punjabis, Sindhis and Pathans of West Pakistan. But the 55 million West Pakistanis held all the political, economic and military power, and East Pakistan, although the majority wing, quickly became what amounted almost to an exploited colony, a golden market for the manufactured products of the western wing. Prices were higher in the east, income lower.
> 
> A severe racial and cultural gap also festered. The two wings of Pakistan have always been further apart in most important respects than most independent countries. In that sense, the Bengalis are fighting to dislodge from their soil a foreign occupation army.
> 
> It may take a long time, but none of the witnesses to the recent upsurge of Bengali nationalism and to the barbarism of the army attack doubts that it will happen. In the meantime, as Sheik Mujib was fond of chanting with the adoring crowds that thronged to his now razed house: “Sangram, sangram. Cholbey, cholbey.” “The fight will go on, The fight will go on.”




Where are all the lying munafiqeen now? I don't see them responding.

@UKBengali @Homo Sapiens @bluesky @TopCat

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## Bilal9

Guys let's not discuss off-topic items in this thread. Thread is about discussing 1971 events.

*Foreign Evacuees From East Pakistan Tell of Grim Fight*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
APRIL 7, 1971

CALCUTTA, April 6—More than 100 foreign evacuees arrived here today after a 34‐hour voyage from Chittagong, East Pakistan's major port, bringing the latest eyewitness reports about the Pakistani army's attempt to suppress the independence movement.

“It's a massacre,” said, John Martinussen; a Danish student.

“We saw the army shooting civilians,” said Neil O'Toole, an American from New Rochelle, N.Y. “I don't want to say too much because I'm afraid of reprisals against our organization.” He asked that the name of his organization not be mentioned.

All foreign newsmen were expelled from the province more than a week ago, just after the army attack began. With censorship continuing, most of the information reaching the outside world is based on reports coming across the border into India.

The 119 foreigners, who arrived at the: Calcutta docks this afternoon aboard a British vessel that had been sitting in Chittagong harbor unable to Unload because of the fighting, were of 17 nationalities. The two largest groups were 37 Americans and 33 Britons.

As they came down the gangplank, of the vessel, the Clan MacNair, they were met by diplomatic officials and a crowd of Indian and foreign newsmen.

Though some of the evacuees were reluctant to talk, others painted a grim picture of Chittagong, East Pakistan's second‐largest city. Until now little has been known of how that city of 400,000 inhabitants has fared in the fighting.

The foreigners said that after several days of fighting, the army—all West Pakistani troops—had pushed the East Pakistani resistance forces out of the city.

But, they added, the army's control ends five miles outside the city, at the banks of the Karnaphuli River.

Everything from the river south, they said, is in the hands of the “liberation army,” which consists of civilians and members of the East Pakistani police, the East Pakistani Rifles and the East Bengal Regiment who have come over to the independence movement.

The foreigners said that they could hear shooting on the outskirts of the city even as they were leaving for Calcutta yesterday morning. Most of the residents have fled the city and gone into the countryside, they said.

Army Burn's Slums

In the city, where fighting broke out, early Friday morning, on March 26, the foreigners said the army had burned to the ground many of the flimsy slums of the poor, the staunchest supporters of independence.

The ashes of the bamboo huts in these neighborhoods were still smoldering, the foreigners said, as they were taken to the docks under military escort yesterday morning to be evacuated. The Pakistan Radio, speaking for the Pakistan Government, contends that all of East Pakistan is calm and that life is returning to normal.

“Nothing is calm, and nothing has come back to normal,” said. Mr. Martinussen, who came to Chittagong seven months ago with his wife Karen to study Pakistani politics as part of his master's degree program at Aarhus University in Denmark.

*“They systematically burned down the districts of the poor people, apparently because they felt they couldn't search them thoroughly,” he went on. “They seemed to be enjoying killing and destroying everything.”*

*“Many Bengalis have been killed,” the 23‐year‐old student went on. “In the river just four days ago, you could count 400 bodies floating in one area,”*

*Mr. Martinussen, who related several accounts of civilians being gunned down in shops and on the street, forecast eventual victory for the 75 million East Pakistanis, who have long protested their exploitation by West Pakistan, which is situated more than 1,000 miles away across Indian territory.*

Independence Movement

“So many Bengalis want their Bangla Desh,” said the slim student, “that I'm sure they will get it.”

Bangla Desh is Bengali for Bengal nation. It is the independence movement's name for East Pakistan.

*His views were echoed by Mr. O'Toole, who is 26 years old. “Chittagong is controlled by the army,” he said. “It is controlled by brute force and terror. The army kept coming in. They were shooting civilians. We saw dead bodies. We smelled the stench of death.”*

*“There was a lot of harassment and beating,” he added, “and there was indiscriminate looting and burning by outsiders.”*

Vengeance Reported

*Mr. O'Toole did not explain what he meant by “outsiders”—but he apparently was talking about West Pakistanis living in East Pakistan.

Other refugees reported that some Bengalis had taken vengeance by killing nonBengali businessmen.*

The foreigners said that 7 P.M.‐to‐5 A.M. curfew prevails in Chittagong, that electric power, cut for three days, has been restored only in some areas of the city, and that the port was virtually shut down since there were no Bengalis to work there.

Some of the evacuees left their homes during the heavy fighting and took refuge in the Hotel Agrabad, away from the center of the action.

They said that soldiers had visited some of their homes while they were away.

*“The army was very polite,” Edward J. McManus, an American engineer from Montrose, N. Y., said with sarcasm. “They drank all my whisky, but they gave me all my glasses back. Very honest."*

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## Bilal9

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*Economic Havoc Worsens Impact of Pakistan's War*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
APRIL 15, 1971

AGARTALA, India, April 13— Peasants in many areas of East Pakistan are not planting their rice because the daily shooting between the Pakistani Army and the Bengali independence forces has made them afraid to come out in the open.

In West Pakistan, 1,000 miles away across Indian territory, textile mills are turning out cheap cotton‐goods that have no market other than East Pakistan; but cannot be sold there unless the Pakistani Army crushes the independence movement and ends the war.

These are but marks of the havoc that the three‐week war has created in the economies of both wings of the country, beyond the loss of life in the East.

Although this correspondent saw no outright starvation in East Pakistan, food stocks in the countryside are low and famine seems a possibility in some areas.

Even in normal times, East Pakistan might be called a hunger area, for it has an annual food‐grain deficit of 2.5 million tons.

No Reports From Delta

With foreign newsmen barred by the Pakistani Government from entering East Pakistan, no reports are available from some of the heavily populated islands in East Pakistan's delta on the Bay of Bengal. Several hundred thousand were killed in the delta in November by a cyclone that also destroyed most of last year's rice crop there.

Approximately two million survivors have been living ever since on relief supplies. The political crisis that erupted early in March and the Army attack on the civilian population after that have halted all shipments of food to the cyclone‐affected area.

Foreign diplomats and others fear that the food problem there could become grave in a few weeks, with the coming of the monsoon rains, which each year cut off some of the islands from the rest of the country for nearly five months.

Beyond that, it is estimated that 100,000 cyclone survivors are still without homes or shelter. In the monsoon, they will face desperate conditions.

Disruptions Compounded

War disruptions are compounding the economic crises. The Pakistani armed forces, composed entirely of West Pakistani troops, are destroying food stocks, tea plantations and jute mills. The resistance troops, adopting guerrilla tactics, are tearing up rail lines, blowing up bridges and demolishing roads to restrict the army's movements and cut its supply routes.

Tea‐estate and jute‐mill managers, mostly foreigners, are abandoning their plantations, leaving them in the hands of Bengali assistants.

There is no money to pay the thousands of tea workers left behind and work has stopped on almost all plantations, most of them in Sylhet district in the northeast. The tea workers are all Hindus and, according to the managers who fled, they have already begun migrating across the border to predominantly Hindu India.

*The Pakistani Army has reportedly looted banks and shops.

“Their targets are mostly civilian,” said Col. M.A.G. Osmani (Muhammad Ataul Ghani Osmani), the commander of the resistance forces, at this base in an eastern border area.

“They are trying to terrorize and starve the population.”*

There are shortages of salt, lentils, mustard oil for cooking, kerosene for lamps and fuel for machines such as those that run village flour mills.

Rice and fish are the staple foods of the Bengalis—the 75 million people of East Pakistan —but with rice stocks dwindling, they are turning to jackfruit as a new staple. Jackfruit, which can be cooked as a vegetable before it is ripe or eaten as a fruit when it matures, grows plentifully on trees everywhere in East Pakistan, but, it has always been a minor part of the Bengali diet.

With nothing moving through East Pakistan's major port, Chittagong, except for the army's military supplies, the Bengalis for now will have to survive on what they can scratch from their own countryside. After centuries of floods, storms, disease and the deepest poverty, they have become experts at survival.

*Though the war has not touched West Pakistan physically, nearly every economic dislocation it has caused in the, East will have an impact in the West.

Jute from the East was the country's largest single export product and foreign‐exchange earner. Most of the foreign earnings were spent in West Pakistan—to pay for the army and to finance big industries and public works.*

*Exploitation Goes On

This kind of exploitation of East Pakistan, which has been going on since the two parts of the country were carved out of the Indian subcontinent in 1947, was the fuel that fired first the East's drive for equal treatment and regional autonomy and finally the movement for independence.

With the East's jute mills shut, West Pakistan's economy is in difficulty.

East Pakistan has always been the major market for West Pakistani manufactured goods, particularly cotton materials’ for clothing, and now this trade has stopped.

The cotton is of such cheap quality that it has no market anywhere in the world; it was sold in the East at a Government‐fixed inflated price to support the West's textile industry.*

With imposition of censorship on all news reports from West Pakistan, it is difficult to tell what stresses the economy there is showing.

How long the Pakistani Government can wage its war against the independence forces in East Pakistan is unsure. The main factors include the following:

¶How much reserve ammunition the Government has. During Pakistan's brief war with India in 1965, her lack of a large ammunition stockpile was a major factor.

¶How much airplane and vehicle fuel the Government has, and how much foreign exchange is on hand to buy fuel.

¶Whether the United States and others in the aid‐Pakistan consortium go so far as to, halt all aid to press the Pakistani Government to end its military offensive in the East. United States economic assistance alone is about 817.5‐million a year.

¶Whether Communist China — Pakistan's closest ally now — agrees to provide everything Pakistan needs to continue the war.

The United States has given an implied warning to Pakistan about withdrawing aid. But Washington's desire seems to be to try to bring about an end to the war without taking any drastic action.

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*Hours of Terror for a Trapped Bengali Officer*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
APRIL 17, 1971

AGARTALA India April 13 —On the night of March 25 Dabir recalls, he and the two other East Pakistani officers in the 53rd Field Artillery Regiment were standing outside when they heard their commander tell the West Pakistani officers he had summoned to his office:

“All of you go now to the city, and by morning I want to see the whole of Comilla filled with corpses. If any officer hesitates to do so I'll have no mercy on him.”

Late in the afternoon of March 30 Dabir says after five days of house arrest for himself and the two other Bengali officers the West Pakistanis sent an officer to their room to execute them—but Dabir wounded, escaped by feigning death.

He has now joined the forces fighting for the independence of Bangla Desh or Bengal Nation as the Bengali population has named East Pakistan.

Killing Their Comrades

*Dabir's experience was apparently no exception. All over East Pakistan—according to Western evacuees and Bengali soldiers and refugees — West Pakistanis who dominate the armed forces were killing their East Pakistani comrades in uniform to deny the independence movement a cadre of military leaders. The sources report that the families of many Bengali officers were also rounded up and killed.

The breakdown of the code of the soldier—officers and troops killing men with whom they had fought—perhaps depicts as well as any other facet of this conflict the depth of the racial hatred felt by the West Pakistanis, who are Punjabis and Pathans, for the 75 million Bengalis of East Pakistan.*

The killing of Bengali soldiers began on the night that the army launched its effort to try to crush the independence movement.

Dabir - a slightly built second lieutenant who is 20 years old and unmarried, told his story of that night and the days that followed to this correspondent at a post in the eastern sector of East Pakistan.

Dabir is not his real name, he asked that a pseudonym be used on the chance that some members of his family —his parents, a brother and three sisters—might still be alive.

Given Office Duties

Talking in a soft almost unemotional voice he gave this account:

After the West Pakistani officers left the commander's office and headed for the armory to get their weapons the three unarmed Bengali officers were called in and placed under what amounted to house arrest although the commander said they were being given office duties.

That night, which they were made to spend in the room next to the commander's, Dabir could not sleep. At 1 A.M. seven or eight shots were fired somewhere in the compound.

During the next three days as Dabir and the two others both captains, answered telephones and shuffled papers under the watch of sentries they heard the sounds of machine‐gun small‐arms and artillery fire in the distance.

Through a window they saw the 60 Bengali soldiers of the regiment being taken off behind a building, their hands in the air, by West Pakistani troops. Then the three heard a sustained burst of firing and assumed that the Bengalis had been killed.

All pretense was dropped on March 29 and the three officers were locked in room together. They passed the night in fear.

On the afternoon of the 30th a West Pakistani officer walked up to the door and broke the glass with the barrel of a submachine gun.

One Bengali captain fell to his knees and begged for mercy. The answer was a burst of fire. The West Pakistani then fired a second burst into the other captain.

Dabir pressed himself against the wall next to the door. The West Pakistani tried the locked door cursed and went away for the key.

Dabir threw himself under his cot and covered his head with his hands. The man returned. “I shrieked,” Dabir said. “He fired. I felt a bullet hit me. I made noise as if I was dying. He stopped firing thinking was dead, and went away.”

Poked and Prodded

One bullet had struck Dabir's right wrist another had grazed his cheek and a third had ripped his shirt up the back. He rubbed blood from his wrist over his face and held his breath when other officers returned to make sure all three were dead.

The West Pakistanis poked and prodded until they were satisfied. For the next two and a half hours soldiers kept coming into the room to view the spectacle. A Punjabi sergeant kicked the bodies of the two captains Each time Dabir desperately held his breath.

“Time passed,” Dabir continued. “The blood dried and flies gathered on my wound. The smell was bad.”

After seven hours Dabir left by the window and dropped four feet to the ground. A sentry heard him and began firing, but it was dark and the shots went wild. Other soldiers in the compound also opened fire, but Dabir made it past the last sentry post, crawled through a rice paddy, swam across a small river and escaped. The next day a country doctor removed the bullet from his wrist and bandaged him.

Dabir looks like a boy—he weighs only 120 pounds—but his manner leaves no doubt that he is fully grown now only three months after graduating fourth in his class from the military academy at Kakul in West Pakistan.

His hatred for the West Pakistanis is intense but controlled. “Without any reason they have killed us.” he said. “They have compelled us to stand against them.”

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Pakistan: In This Case ‘War Is Hell’ For One Side Only
— SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
APRIL 18, 1971

AGARTALA, East Pakistan—War is hell, everyone says, but it is usually hell for both sides.

Yet, in the three‐week‐old war between the Pakistani Army and the outgunned resistance fighters of East Pakistan, there has been only one hell so far—that of the tens of thousands of East Pakistani civilians who have been massacred by the army in its drive to terrorize, intimidate and crush the Bengali independence movement.

Having gained control of most of the major cities and towns, the army troops—all are West Pakistanis, many of whom harbor deep racial hatred for the Bengali population of East Pakistan—are now making forays into the countryside. They hope to extend their control before the monsoon rains become heavy in a few weeks and make movement for a regular army difficult.

“They flounder and die in knee‐deep water,” said a Bengali officer. “We will use country boats. We will make misery for them.”

The prospect is for a long, sullen war. Most diplomats and foreign observers believe that the Bengalis, by hanging on, will eventually make life untenable for the West Pakistanis, who are more than 1,000 miles from their home and their supply bases.

But these observers also agree that, unless foreign powers put an economic, squeeze on the Pakistani Government, it could be years before the 75 million Bengalis finally win their freedom and end West Pakistan's exploitation of their province— the exploitation that gave birth to the independence movement.

There are usually two sides to every story, every argument, every conflict. But it is difficult, after witnessing what is taking place in East Pakistan, to imagine some justification for the army's action. This is because the army, from all the available evidence, has set out to kill the leaders and potential leaders of East Pakistan and to destroy the economic base of the region.

“They want to drag us so far down that we will be reduced to eating grass,” said one Bengali soldier. “They want to make sure that no head will ever be raised against them again.”

The West Pakistani troops are killing Bengali students, intellectuals, professors, army officers, engineers, doctors and others of any leadership potential.

Using tanks, jet fighter‐bombers, heavy artillery and gun boats, all mostly supplied by the United States, the Soviet Union and Communist China, the Pakistani Army is also destroying food‐storage houses, tea factories, jute mills and natural gas fields—the economic infrastructure of East Pakistan.

Shoeless Soldiers

The largest weapon the resistance army has is the three inch mortar, although it has captured a few heavy guns. Some of the Bengali soldiers have no shoes.

The Bengalis — their core of trained troops number only 12,000 to 15,000, all of whom fled the ranks of the Pakistan Army when the attack began cannot afford frontal clashes with the estimated 60,000 to 80,000 West Pakistani troops in East Pakistan. So the Bengali strategy is now based on hit‐and‐run guerrilla tactics.

The independence movement has formed a provisional government, but for the moment this Is largely a move to keep Bengali morale from flagging and to try to coordinate the war effort.

As the war continues, the economies of both East and West Pakistan are suffering badly. Frightened Bengali peasants are not risking going into their open fields to plant rice this year, East Pakistan's jute is not being ex ported and West Pakistan's big textile industry is unable to sell the Bengalis its over‐priced sleazy cottons, for which there is no other market. The Bengali nationalists may be able to hold out by living off the familiar land. For West Pakistan, the key may be foreign aid.

One question mark is whether Communist China will provide enough aid to allow the Pakistanis to pursue their offensive indefinitely. In a note to the Pakistani Government last week, Premier Chou En‐lai denounced the United States, the Soviet Union and India for “carrying out gross interference in the internal affairs of Pakistan” and promised China's support “should the Indian expansionists dare to launch aggression against Pakistan.”

Another similar question is whether the Western aid‐giving community, particularly the United States, which is now giving Pakistan about $175‐million a year, will withhold all further assistance until President Yahya Khan stops the bloodshed.

The State Department's desire is to try to press for a political settlement, remote as that possibility is. This strategy runs the heavy risk not only of failing in West Pakistan, where the Americans want to keep a foothold to keep Chinese influence from becoming predominant, but also of losing all the East Pakistani goodwill it had in the strongly pro‐Western independence movements.

The Pakistan Government, often through its official radio, is accusing its old enemy India of virtually everything in this war: of sending arms and soldiers to the independence army, of harassing Pakistani ships, of setting up a clandestine radio station, of inspiring the Indian press to print exaggerated accounts of massacres and atrocities. These charges, all of which India has repeatedly denied, have received wide play in the world press, mainly because there is no Bangla Desh radio to counter balance them.

India is probably providing assistance to the independence movement, but there has been no evidence yet of any arms, ammunition or men.

Radio Pakistan and the controlled West Pakistan press, in addition to using India for a whipping boy, also continues to issue daily reports describing conditions in East Pakistan as “returning to normal.” It characterizes the popularly supported independence movement as “a handful of miscreants” and says that the East Pakistan economy is on the mend, with jute being exported again. All are bald fabrications.

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## Bilal9

*West Pakistan Pursues Subjugation of Bengalis*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
JULY 14, 1971

NEW DELHI, July 13—Army trucks roll through the half‐deserted streets of the capital of East Pakistan these days, carrying “antistate” prisoners to work‐sites for hard

_The following dispatch was written by a correspondent of The New York Times who was expelled from East Pakistan on June 30 following a tour of the area._labor. Their heads are shaved and they wear no shoes and no clothes except for shorts —all making escape difficult.

Every day at the airport at Dacca, the capital, planes from West Pakistan, over a thousand miles across India, disgorge troops dressed in baggy pajama like tribal garb to appear less conspicuous.

Street designations are being changed to remove all Hindu names as well as those of Bengali Moslem nationalists as part of a campaign to stamp out Bengali culture. Shankari Bazar Road in Dacca is now Tikka Khan Road, after the lieutenant general who is the martial‐law governor of East, Pakistan and whom most Bengalis call “the Butcher.”

Economy Viewed as Crippled

Those are but a few of the countless evidences, seen by this correspondent during a recent visit to the eastern province, that Pakistan's military regime is determined to make its occupation stick and to subjugate the region of 75 million people. The West Pakistanis are doing so despite a crippled economy, the collapse of governmental administration, widening guerrilla activity by the Bengali separatists, mounting army casualties and an alienated, sullen population.

To insure troop strength in East Pakistan, the Government has leased two Boeing 707's for a year from a private Irish owned charter airline, World Airways, to carry reinforcements for an army put at 70, 000 to 80,000 men and replacements for casualties.

In addition to the daily troops arrivals, the Government is bringing in wave upon wave of West Pakistanis to replace East Pakistanis in Government jobs. No Bengali is trusted with a responsible or sensitive post; even the man who cuts the grass at the Dacca airport is a non‐Bengali.

Few Bengali taxi drivers re main. Their jobs have been given to non‐Bengali Moslem migrants from India such as the Biharis, who have identified and sided with the West Pakistani dominated Government land who are serving as the army's civilian arm, informing and enforcing.

The West Pakistanis are discouraging the use of the Bengali language, and trying to replace it with their own, Urdu. Soldiers tell the Bengalis disdainfully that theirs is not really a civilized tongue and that they should start teaching their children Urdu if they want to get along. Merchants, out of fear, have replaced their signs with signs in English be cause they don't know Urdu.

‘Peace Committees’ Formed

Throughout East Pakistan the Army is training new para military home guards or simply arming “loyal” civilians, some of whom are formed into peace committees. Besides Biharis and other non‐Bengali, Urdu speaking Moslems, the recruits include the small minority of Bengali Moslems who have long supported the army—adherents of the right‐wing religious parties such as the Moslem League and Jamaat‐e-Islami.

In the election last December those parties failed to win a single seat for East Pakistan in the National Assembly.

In a sense the election spawned the crisis, for the Awami League, an East Pakistani party campaigning for more self‐rule for the province, unexpectedly won a national majority. With the previously suppressed Bengalis about to assume a strong national role, the leading political group of West Pakistan, the Pakistan People's party, refused to attend the coming session of the National Assembly, which was to have written a new constitution to restore civilian rule. President Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan responded by postponing the session, set for March 3.

Negotiations and Attack

Protests and rioting erupted in East Pakistan, and the Bengalis answered the Awami League's call for a noncooperation movement in defiance of the military.

The President flew to Dacca to negotiate with the Awami League leader, Sheik Mujibur Rahman. During their negotiations, on the night of March 25, the army launched a surprise attack on the largely unarmed civilian population to try to crush the autonomy movement. The league was banned and Sheik Mujib jailed as a traitor.

The initial Bengali resistance —led by men in the police and national army Who had switched allegiance was quickly routed, but it is now emerging from its Indian‐border sanctuaries, with new recruits and supplies, to wage Vietnam‐style guerrilla warfare —and cause increasing torment to the army.

*Since the offensive began the troops have killed countless thousands of Bengalis—foreign diplomats estimate at least 200,000 to 250,000 — many in massacres. Although the targets were Bengali Moslems and the 10 million Hindus at first, the army, is now concentrating on Hindus in what foreign observers characterize as a holy war.*

The West Pakistani leaders have long, considered the Hindus as subverters of Islam and they now view them as agents of India, which, has been accused of engineering the autonomy movement to force Pakistan's disintegration.

*Of the more than six million Bengalis who are believed to have fled to India to escape the army's terror, at least four million are Hindus. The troops are still killing Hindus and burning and looting their villages.*

West Pakistani officials insist, however, ‘that normalcy is returning and have appealed to the Hindus to “return to their homes and hearths,” assuring them that they have nothing, to fear. Only a handful of refugees have returned and the reception centers the Government has erected to show foreign visitors remain largely deserted.

Seeking Restoration of Aid

Army commanders recently spread the word that low‐caste Hindus were welcome to return to their homes. Observers view the gesture cynically, pointing out that without the low‐caste Hindus—menial laborers, sweepers and washer men—the army has no one to do its dirty work.

Apart from the refugees in India, there are in East Pakistan millions of displaced Bengalis who fled their homes when the army came and are still afraid to return.

Recently there have been signs that the troops have been ordered to carry out their operations more subtly and less in the public eye. The orders, ac cording to foreign diplomats, are inspired by Pakistan's desire to persuade an 11‐nation consortium to resume economic aid, temporarily suspended in censure of the army repression:

[A special mission of the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, which coordinates the aid program, has reported that the ravages by the military in East Pakistan will require that development efforts be suspended for at least a year. The mission made a widespread survey of the province in May and June.)

Diplomats in Dacca attribute Pakistan's decision to allow foreigners to travel freely through East Pakistan and to readmit foreign newsmen — who had been barred since the offensive began except as participants in Government‐guided tours — as part of the campaign to restore the aid.

Nonetheless the killing, though it is more selective and less wholesale, has not stopped and the outlook, most observers believe, is for a long and bloody struggle.

Bengalis Pass the Word

Foreign missionaries, who are posted even, in the remotest parts of East Pakistan, report new massacres almost daily. One missionary said that the army recently, killed over 1,000 Hindus in a day in a section of Barisal District, in the south.

Another reported that in Sylhet District, in the northeast; a “peace committee” called a meeting of all the residents of one area, ostensibly to work out a reconciliation. When everyone had gathered troops ar rived, picked out the 300 Hindus in the crowd, led them away and shot them.

Whenever a, Bengali talks to a foreigner in public he is running a risk. At ferry crossings Bengalis sidled up to this cor respondent's car to whisper a few scraps Of information about army terror or, with a quick smile, about a raid by the guerrillas of the liberation army.

As soon as six or seven people gathered a West Pakistani soldier or policeman would saunter over, glowering at the Bengalis, and they would melt away.

The presence of the army and its civilian informers notwithstanding, the Bengalis some how find a way to tell their stories to the foreign, visitor— by slipping notes into his car or arranging clandestine meeting.

At one Such meeting in a town not fat from Dacca, a merchant related that a soldier arrested him one day for no reason, Confiscated his money and watch and took him, to the police station, where he was jailed for a night before being—miraculously, he felt—released.’

The merchant said he had spent the night praying and reading the messages that Covered the walls of his cell— scrawled there by previous prisoners. The messages, he said, were nearly all alike, giving the name and address of the, prisoner and the date of his arrest and saying: “I may not live. Please tell my family what happened to me.”

Not one of them has been heard from since, the merchant added.

Property Damage Heavy

The killings have been matched by the property dam age the army has inflicted everywhere. In the countryside —for miles at a stretch some times — have been burned to the ground on both sides of the road. In the cities and towns large areas have been reduced to rubble by heavy gunfire.

The Bengalis say the troops were simply bent on wanton destruction. The army says that it never fired unless fired upon, but field commanders beast that in most towns there was little or no resistance.

Why all the, devastation? they are asked. It was all done by “miscreants,” is the stock answer.

Though some Bengalis are trickling back, to population centers, Most towns, still have only half or less of their original numbers, and parts of some areas, like the northwest region, are virtually deserted.

Fields of untended rice are choked with weeds. On jute plots where, dozens of farm, laborers once toiled only a few bent backs can be seen. East Pakistan's jute, the tough fiber for gunny sacks, is the main stay of the national economy, being the biggest single export and earner of foreign exchange. All signs indicate that the com ing crop will be a poor one.

Even if the crop were good, the jute factories, with much of their skilled labor gone, could not handle it. They are operating far below capacity.

River Traffic Harassed

The insurgents continue to harass river traffic, trying to disrupt military movements and prevent harvested jute from reaching the factories. They have already sunk several jute barges in the Jessore Khulna region, a rich jute area.

The East Pakistani tea industry has been even more badly crippled, and the Government has reportedly had to order two million pounds from foreign sources for West Pakistani con sumers.

West Pakistan's economy is one of the roots of the blood shed. Another is the wide ethnic gap between the light skinned, Middle Eastern Punjabis who dominate in the western wing and the dark‐skinned, Southeast Asian Bengalis of the east. Except for their common, religion, Islam, the two peoples are as different as can be.

From Pakistan's formation 21 years ago, the more prosperous western wing with a minority (55 million) of the population, was, looked down on and exploited the poorer Bengali majority. The Bengalis grew bitter as they watched the foreign exchange earned in the east go to pay for the West. Pakistani dominated.army and build the industries and development projects of the west.

Even the few development projects in East Pakistan have been halted now because of the terror, insecurity and lack of civilian administration in the countryside.

Resistance Seems to Grow

Nevertheless, the military, by rounding up laborers, has finally gotten the key ports of Chittagong and Chalna functioning again at a reasonably effective level, but there are goods—to load onto outgoing ships except what was in ware houses before the fighting.

Food shortages are becoming serious in some areas and experts predict that the situation, could reach famine proportions unless the army can restore the disrupted transport system and distribute available food.

Such restoration does not seem likely because the Bengali resistance, though still disorganized, appears to be gathering momentum—with increasing assistance and sanctuary, and sometimes covering fire, from India.

Thousands of young Bengalis are being trained in demolition and guerrilla tactics—often on the Indian side of the border, with India providing many of the instructors. The first elements of the new guerrillas are beginning to flow back into East Pakistan.

More and more road and rail way bridges are being blown tip and electrical power supplies knocked out. Some of the, demolition work has been expert. Road mines are becoming common. Often the army, which is on combat alert, cannot get cal contractors to repair the damage, so it uses forced labor, with meager results.

Outside Comilla, not long ago the guerrillas blew a rail bridge. A repair train was sent out with army guards. The guerrillas attacked the repair train in broad daylight, the fireman and taking a hostage. The train sped back into town.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
*
Kennedy, in India, Terms Pakistani Drive Genocide*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
AUG. 17, 1971

NEW DELHI, Aug. 16—*Senator Edward M. Kennedy today denounced Pakistan's military action against the East Pakistani separatists as genocide And said that the secret trial of the East Pakistani leader, Sheik Mujibur Rahman, was “an outrage to every concept of international law.”*

At a news conference here as he ended his week‐long visit to India, the Massachusetts Democrat blamed the Nixon Administration's policy of continued arms aid to Pakistan for the severe damage to United States relations with India.

Mr. Kennedy—who spent most of his time here visiting the squalid border camps that hold East Pakistani refugees, seven million of whom are said to have fled—said President Nixon's policy “baffles me and after seeing the results in terms of human misery, I think it's an even greater disaster.”

Discussing the 20‐year Soviet‐ Indian friendship treaty signed here a week ago, the Senator said he saw nothing inconsistent with India's stated policy of nonalignment and did not think it was “in any way disadvantageous to U.S. friendship with India.”’

As a matter of fact, he added, the Indian Foreign Minister, Swaran Singh, had indicated that he was willing to sign similar treaty with the United States.

He Has No Solution to Offer

The Soviet‐Indian treaty, whose immediate aim is to discourage Pakistan from declaring war on India, which she has threatened, provides that if the Soviet Union or India is attacked or threatened, the two countries shall hold “consultations to remove such threat and to take appropriate effective measures to insure peace and the security of their Countries.”

Senator Kennedy, who came to India in his capacity as chairman of the Senate Judiciary subcommittee on refugees, said he believed that a political solution to the East Pakistan crisis was possible but that he did not pretend to have it.

The crisis erupted on March 25, when the Pakistani army, composed of West Pakistanis, launched a surprise offensive to try to crush the Bengali independence movement in East Pakistan. Diplomatic observers estimate that the army has killed at least 200,000 Bengalis. Frightened refugees continue to pour into India by the thousands.

The Bengali insurgents, “with the help of Indian arms, training and sanctuary,” have increased their guerrilla activities, causing a significant number of army casualties.

President Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan of Pakistan has repeatedly warned that if India continues to help the guerrillas, he will declare war.

The Senator seemed uneasy only when pressed by Indian newsmen for his idea of a political solution. The official view here is that the only solution is independence for East Pakistan under Sheik Mujib, who faces the death penalty.

*“The only crime that Mujib is guilty of,” the Senator said, “is winning an election.”*

Mr. Kennedy had planned to visit both East and West Pakistan and had obtained a Pakistani visa, but when he arrived in India last Tuesday, the Pakistani Government canceled his visit, saying that it would serve no useful purpose because “the partisan statements he made on arrival in India showed how deeply he imbibed Indian propaganda:”

Describing the financial burden of the refugees on India as overwhelming, he said: “I think it will be $500‐million to $1‐billion a year. Obviously, the international response has been meager to date. I'm pleased the United States has given more than all the aid put together from other nations, but compared to the magnitude of the burden, it's extremely inadequate.”

When he gets home, he said, he will urge an end to economic aid to Pakistan “until a political solution has been realized.”
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## Homo Sapiens

Bilal9 said:


> *Though the war has not touched West Pakistan physically, nearly every economic dislocation it has caused in the, East will have an impact in the West.
> 
> Jute from the East was the country's largest single export product and foreign‐exchange earner. Most of the foreign earnings were spent in West Pakistan—to pay for the army and to finance big industries and public works.*
> 
> *With the East's jute mills shut, West Pakistan's economy is in difficulty.
> 
> East Pakistan has always been the major market for West Pakistani manufactured goods, particularly cotton materials’ for clothing, and now this trade has stopped.
> 
> The cotton is of such cheap quality that it has no market anywhere in the world; it was sold in the East at a Government‐fixed inflated price to support the West's textile industry.*


Now Pakistanis lie to their teeth that any of these facts are true. I would say Pakistan's current economic mess has much to do with their addiction for easy money paying someone else. When their main cash cow East Pakistan was gone, Bhutto regime started heavy borrowing from IMF, World Bank and Arab brothers to fund the military and maintain same spending habit like before when East Pakistan was paying the bill. Later Pakistani rulers could not break free of this culture to maintain public satisfaction. The accumulated result is now open to see by all.

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## Bilal9

Homo Sapiens said:


> Now Pakistanis lie to their teeth that any of these facts are true. I would say Pakistan's current economic mess has much to do with their addiction for easy money paying someone else. When their main cash cow East Pakistan was gone, Bhutto regime started heavy borrowing from IMF, World Bank and Arab brothers to fund the military and maintain same spending habit like before when East Pakistan was paying the bill. Later Pakistani rulers could not break free of this culture to maintain public satisfaction. The accumulated result is now open to see by all.



Well Bhutto was hanged by Zia-Ul Haque, then ZH himself got assassinated by way of military transport. But let's not get into Pakistan's issues post-1971. I will agree with you that the same issues that plagued West Pakistan pre-1971 also continued past 1971, the actors changed but the story-line remained the same. I believe we should be less concerned with post 1971 issues as we are not part of that equation any longer.

Pakistanis are the sole arbiter and decider on how they run their country, which I can say for sure has taken a radically different (pun intended) path compared to Bangladesh for one reason or another. And they will be the gainers or sufferers for the consequences, for better or worse. That is the choice they have made consciously as a national entity.

Let's just leave it at that.

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## Bilal9

*A Pakistani Terms Bengalis 'Chicken‐Hearted’*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
JULY 17, 1971

FARIDPUR, Pakistan, June 29—Maj. Nazir Baig, the martial‐law commander in the Faridpur District just west of Dacca, is a chunkily built Baluchi tribesman from West Pakistan who has spent nearly six of his 20 years of military service in East Pakistan.

The following dispatch was written by a correspondent of The New York Times who was expelled from East Pakistan on June 30.

His contempt for the Bengalis of this eastern wing of the country is not only common but also proudly held in the Pakistani Army, which began its military campaign to crush their movement for provincial autonomy on March 25.

The Bengalis, he said in an interview, are a “chicken‐hearted people” who “never miss a chance to stab you in the back.”

Major Eager to Talk

The Bengali Hindus, a minority in this heavily Moslem province of 75 million people, are the worst, according to the major, because they have been “sucking the blood” out of East Pakistan and sending their money to India, Pakistan's Hindu enemy.

During a recent week of traveling through East Pakistan, it was evident that, although many army officers were less articulate than Major Baig, they shared his opinions.

The interview with the major —held in a building that once was the headquarters of the popularly supported Awami League party which campaigned for autonomy and is now banned—lasted more than two hours. He was eager to talk, to try to convince a foreigner of the correctness of his views. He was often fervent.

He said that his troops had met no resistance when they entered Faridpur, “not a single bullet,” and he explained the destruction in the town and the killing of townspeople by saying it was all done by miscreants—the word used by the Pakistani Government to describe the Bengali insurgents.

Major Baig denied what frightened townspeople whispered to a visitor—that the killing and destruction were entirely the army's work.

Only an 'Odd Pinprick’

Our men are properly motivated,” he said. “They have been told they were brought here to help another Moslem brother in trouble. There was no case of rape or looting or any antisocial activity. Islam as a religion forbids this kind of thing. This is a Moslem country where they have come, not a foreign land.”

*Asked if there was any resistance in the area now, he said: “Nothing except for an odd pinprick”. This disappoint ed him as a professional soldier, he said.

“The Bengalis,” he went on, are very, very soft and chicken‐hearted people. The sound of just one bullet sends hundreds of these people flying like chickens. They have no guts.”*

*He added, “They are lambs in front of you, tigers behind your back. They are a people who never miss a chance to stab you in the back.”*

The major said, after a pause, that maybe his assessment did not apply to “100 per cent” of the people, ‘the common man here,’ he said, “is very simple and has very limited needs and is not very troublesome.”

Pressed about why so many Hindus were killed, the major again denied that his soldiers were responsible. Then he added: “Out of such a large population, if a few innocent people suffer in such abnormal conditions, is it not natural?”

Major Baig said that the Hindus had dominated the teaching profession in East Pakistan and had subverted the province by teaching un‐Islamic concepts. “This rot has happened now in East Pakistan because of this,” he said. “These teachers and all the Hindus have not accepted Pakistan as a reality. They live in a dream land. They believe that Mother India will be united again.” The major was confident, however, that India would never be able to swallow Pakistan.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Bengali Refugees Say Soldiers Continue to Kill, Loot and Burn*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
SEPT. 23, 1971

KUTIBARI, India, Sept. 21—The latest refugees from East Pakistan report that the Pakistani Army and its civilian collaborators are continuing to kill, loot and burn despite the central Government's public avowals that it is bent on restoring normalcy and winning the confidence of the Bengali people.

The dozens of refugees interviewed by this correspondent today, all of whom fled into India from East Pakistan in the past week, describe the killing of civilians, rape and other acts of repression by the soldiers, most of them West Pakistanis.

As the refugees talked in their overcrowded, half‐flooded camps in and around this Indian village about four miles from the border and 60 miles northeast of Calcutta, the sound of shelling could be heard from the frontier. It was impossible to tell whether the shells came from the Pakistani) Army, the Indian border forces or the so‐called liberation forces of Bangla Desh (Bengal Nation), the name the Bengali separatist movement has given to East Pakistan since the attempt to repress the movement began in March.

Most of the refugees interviewed came from the region of Faridpur, the family home of Sheik Mujibur Rahman, jailed leader of the Bengalis.

Nearly All Are Hindus

The refugees said that although general living conditions were very difficult in East Pakistan, they would have stayed had it not been for the killings. Nearly all the latest arrivals are Hindus, who said that the military regime was still making the Hindu minority its particular target.

They said the guerrillas were active in their areas and that the army carried out massive reprisals against civilians after every guerrilla raid.

Nira Pada Saha, a jute trader in Faridpur District, told of reprisal against a village near his that had sheltered and fed the guerrillas. Just before he fled five days ago, he related, the army struck the village, first shelling it and then burning the huts.

“Some of the villagers didn't run away fast enough,” he said. “The soldiers caught them, tied their hands and feet and threw them into the flames.”

There were about 5,000 people in the village, most of them Hindus, Mr. Saha said, and not a hut is left intact.

Others be ‘Dirty Work’

According to the refugees, the army leaves much of the “dirty work” to its civilian collaborators—the razakars, or home guards—it has armed and to the supporters of right-wing religious political parties such as the Moslem League and Jamaat‐i‐Islami, which have usually backed the military regime.

The collaborators act as intelligence agents and enforcers for the army, the refugees say, by pointing out homes and villages and people who have helped the guerrillas. Often, the refugees added, the collaborators make arrests at random and for no reason.

“The razakars and the others come into a village and pick just any house,” said Dipak Kumar Biswas, a radio repairman from Barisal District. “Then they arrest whatever able-bodied young man is in that house and hand him over to the army. We don't know what the army does to them. They never come back.”

The refugees said that despite reprisals and police‐state activities, local people were continuing to provide food, shelter and information to the guerrillas.

Makhan Lal Talukdar, a rice farmer, said he fled a few days ago after some razakars swooped down on the crowd gathered at the weekly bazaar and opened fire. Six people were killed, he said, and many wounded.

Refugee Flow Goes On

Mr. Talukdar crossed into India with his family of eight but had to leave his father behind in hiding because he was too old to make the trek.

*About 15,000 people from his area fled to India after the bazaar incident, Mr. Talukdar said. Some 20,000 to 30,000 refugees pour into India every day, joining the millions — the latest estimate is 8.6 million—already here.*

The Pakistani President, Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan, has urged the refugees to return, promising them assistance, and he has offered amnesty to the guerrillas.

The promises only evoke bitter laughter from the refugees. “We fled to save our lives,” said Rajendra Das, another farmer. “They are still killing us. We will not go back until there is complete independence.”

Though rice is somewhat short in the refugees’ areas, with the price up 40 per cent as a result, other foods are said to be plentiful. However, many people are going hungry, the refugees said, because they lack money and jobs.

Economic life has been badly disrupted since the army began its assault. Particularly hard hit have been the farm laborers and those who do menial labor on Government public‐works projects, most of which have been halted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bengal; Breaking Point Is Near — And it May Mean War
SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
OCT. 10, 1971

CALCUTTA — When the Bengalis of East Pakistan began crossing the border into India six months ago in flight from civil war, they were greeted by the Bengalis of India with sympathy and tolerance despite the disruptions created by the refugee flood. But life is a survival affair in this corner of the world and magnanimity a luxury that few can afford for long.

Last week, with the refugee population swollen to 9 million, West Bengal, the Indian state on the East Pakistani border, was in an explosive condition. Across the border, the Pakistani Army was still killing and burning in an effort to crush the East Bengal independence movement — and still sending refugees pouring into India at a rate of 30,000 a day or 1 million a month. In West Bengal, tensions were festering both inside and outside the refugee camps. And the temptation to get rid of the crushing refugee burden by intervening in the fighting across the border —even if that meant another war with Pakistan — was growing for Indians all the way up to the Government in New Delhi.

In the beginning, when there were only 1 or 2‐million refugees, the Government of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, although Strained by the relief effort, exhibited no sense of crisis. In fact, the refugees were a political asset that India could use in denouncing Pakistan's military repression and expressing New Delhi's sympathy for the independence of Bangla Desh, or Bengal Nation, the name the Bengali separatists have given to East Pakistan.

But now the relief program is cracking at the seams. The refugees are complaining that they are not getting their full rations; some have accused camp officials of black‐marketing relief supplies. Angry local people are protesting that the refugees are getting more food free than they can afford to buy on their meager wages as field hands and construction laborers. Refugee pressures have pushed local food prices up, and surplus refugee labor has driven local wage rates down. Firewood for cooking is scarce, and refugees have been caught stripping wood off fruit trees in local orchards.

Several clashes, and even some near‐riots, have erupted; some refugees have been killed either by the police or, local people. Marxist and Maoist political groups are trying to exploit these tensions to foment even wider trouble. Indian officials have hired several thousand young men to, try to curb extremist agitation in and around the camps.

What the Indians fear most is that the tension might take on a communal color — most of the East Pakistani refugees are Hindus terrorized by the Moslem. West Pakistani Army—and touch off a nationwide chain reaction in which India's majority Hindus would take revenge on the country's 60‐million Moslems.

*The pressures are building in India to take some bold action that would stop the flood of refugees, a major threat to the country's already‐fragile social and economic fabric. Bangla Desh officials are pushing hard on New Delhi to give them the support needed for a major offensive. They are asking for sufficient heavy weapons and air cover, although not Indian troops.*

*In the United Nations General Assembly last week, the Pakistani delegate charged that India has in fact been carrying on, a clandestine war against Pakistan for the last few months. The charge bears some truth, for India has been giving sanctuary and arms to and training the Mukti Bahini (liberation forces) of Bangla Desh and has occasionally provided covering artillery and mortar fire for the Bengali guerrillas. With their hit‐and-run raids, the guerrillas have been able to keep East Pakistan in chaos and the Pakistani Army off balance. They have been severing roads and bridges, knocking out power installations and killing a significant number of Pakistani troops.

The Most dramatic of the guerrilla successes has been the damaging and sinking of ships in East Pakistan's two major harbors. The latest casualty was a Greek tanker, which Bengali frogmen damaged in Chittagong harbor about a week ago. Some shipping lines are thinking of halting all their traffic into East Pakistan. That would be a severe blow to the ability of the Pakistani Government to support its military occupation there.*

Up to now, the Indians—themselves restrained from any rash move by their closest ally, the Soviet Union — have refused to help the guerrillas mount a major offensive that could seize a sizable chunk of East Pakistan territory and set up the Bangla Desh Government. But more and more people, including key Indian military officials, are shaking their heads gloomily and saying that unless the civil strife across the border is ended very soon by a political settlement, there may be no alternative to some kind of military action against East Pakistan.

Even if the Indians do not immediately sanction a full scale thrust to seize major territory, where at least some of the refugees could go back to live, reports here indicate that New Delhi is increasing its arms supply to the guerrillas and that there will be a sharp increase in guerrilla activity within a few weeks — “a big punch,” as one Bangla Desh official described it.

How far India is prepared to go eventually to support the guerrillas is not clear, Most observers here feel that India's ability and willingness to absorb the refugee pressure is not limitless — that there is a breaking point and that it could come soon.

No decision on that is likely to be made until Mrs. Gandhi returns from her major tour of Western capitals, including London and Washington, on which she embarks later this month. 

The Prime Minister will be pressing for stronger Western support for India's position—that Pakistan's military regime must negotiate a settlement in East Pakistan with the Awami League, the autonomy‐minded party that won 160 of East Pakistan's 169 National Assembly seats (a national majority) in last December's elections and was outlawed when the Pakistan Army struck in March. 

Mrs. Gandhi will also presumably be probing, subtly—particularly with the Nixon Administration—to find out what the Western reaction would be to major Indian military action.

If Mrs. Gandhi gets nothing but more urging of caution and restraint and comes home feeling that India is being abandoned or isolated, then caution and restraint may be the next casualties on this disturbed subcontinent.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Guerrilla Step‐up Seen*
By SYDNEY H. SCHANBERG
OCT. 13, 1971

CALCUTTA, India, Oct. 11— Under heavy security, several special freight trains carrying military supplies now arrive here every day. The arms are reported to be for the Bengali guerrillas who are fighting for East Pakistan's independence and who seem to be preparing to step up their activities against the Pakistani army.

On the guerrilla side, the crucial question is how far India is willing to go in support of the independence movement. So far the Indians have been providing sanctuary, training and a certain amount of arms.

The political leaders of the six-month‐old independence struggle, who are based in Calcutta, have been complaining that the Indians are not giving them enough arms to equip all their trained men.

Moreover, India, largely because of the restraining advice of her closest ally, the Soviet Union, has not granted de jure recognition to the government of Bangla Desh (Bengal Nation), the name given to East Pakistan by the independence movement. The thinking behind that restraint has been that recognition might precipitate a war with Pakistan.

The flow of heavily guarded freight trains into Calcutta indicates that India has agreed to give the guerrillas more arms, but it does not necessarily mean that she is prepared to give them what they really want—logistic support and air cover for a frontal push into East Pakistan to seize control of a chunk of territory.

Even though Indian troops would not be involved, such a move would clearly be regarded by Pakistan as an act of war.

Meanwhile, an air of suspense continues to grow between the Indian and Pakistani armies, on both the eastern and western borders of divided Pakistan. Reliable reports indicate that both sides have reinforced their troops on the always sensitive frontiers.

Troop Moves Observed

This correspondent has observed Indian troop movements along the border with East Pakistan. Near one border point, at Petrapole, Indian regulars were training with recoilless rifles, often used against tanks.

There are many rumors about the possibility of another Indian‐Pakistani war—a brief but bloody one was fought in 1965 —but there is no strong evidence that it is imminent, and the troop movements may be elaborate psychological warfare.

In recent days the Indian press has been full of reports of a Pakistani military build‐up, of civilian evacuation from some Pakistani border areas and of war hysteria and a hate-India campaign in Pakistan. Correspondingly, the Pakistani press has been heavy with reports of an Indian build‐up and of Indian border provocations such as shelling.

Furthermore, security has been tightened around the camps that hold the Bengali refugees, who have fled the Pakistani military repression in East Pakistan. Indian officials say that Pakistani agents have infiltrated the camps.

An Indian news agency, Press Trust of India, reported that the authorities had imposed a blackout and air‐raid measures at the extensive oil refineries and depots in Assam, an eastern border state.

Whether those pieces add up to anything, it would be logical, now that the annual monsoon rains and floods are just about over, for both the Pakistani Army and the Bengali guerrillas to increase their activities.

As for India, the social and economic pressures of the refugees are mounting. Official estimate that over nine million have poured across the border and that the influx continues at about 30,000 a day (the Pakistanis put the total at much less).

Is there a breaking point, the foreign diplomats are asking, point at which the Indians decide that the strains are so great that they must take direct military action to stop the refugee flow?

*Whatever the two governments do, all reports here indicate that the guerrillas are about to open a stepped‐up offensive. They have already delivered some hard blows. They have severed—and kept severed —the main rail line, many key roads and innumerable bridges, and they constantly blow up crucial power installations. Since August guerrilla frogmen have been attacking ships in East Pakistan's harbors and have damaged or sunk at least a dozen. As a result British lines have suspended traffic to East Pakistan.*

Guerrillas Claim Big Toll

*The guerrillas claim the killing of 20,000 to 30,000 Pakistani soldiers; although that is considered an exaggeration, the casualties are believed to be considerable. No figures are available on guerrilla casualties.

There are estimated to be 80,000 Pakistani soldiers in East Pakistan, plus about 10,000 hastily trained non‐Bengali home guardsmen.

Estimates of the number of guerrillas range from 50,000 to 100,000, many thousands of them trained since the Pakistani Army launched its attack against the independence movement in March. The hard core of professionals consists of more than 15,000 men who defected from the East Pakistan Rifles, a paramilitary border patrol force, and the East Bengal Regiment, a regular army unit.*

Many of the guerrilla training camps and base areas are on the Indian side of the border, but a growing number of Bengalis have been operating from areas in East Pakistan adjoining the border.

Some recruits are being trained as guerrillas and others as regulars. “We need both,” a high official said, “because the guerrillas can only hurt and weaken and soften. We need a force that can hold territory.

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## Bilal9

The Grim Fight for ‘Bangla Desh’: East Pakistan
OCT. 17, 1971

NEW DELHI—“If the Vietcong had been doing this well after six months, they would have considered it remarkably good start” The foreign, diplomat was talking about the Mukti Bahini (Liberation Forces), the Bengali insurgents who are fighting for the independence of East Pakistan, which they have named Bangla Desh (Bengali nation).

From a disorganized, confused band of freedom fighters that moved into action when the Pakistani Army struck in late March to try to crush the Bengali autonomy movement, the Mukti Bahini has become, if not a well‐oiled fighting machine, at least a reasonably coordinated and more than reasonably effective guerrilla force. India has helped with arms, training and sanctuary —and, clearly, without the Indian aid, the level of insurgent activity could never have reached its present pitch. But the men and the motivation are East Pakistani, and, it is doubtful whether the Bengali resistance could be totally crushed by the troops from West Pakistan.

An estimated 80,000 West Pakistani troops have been moved into East Pakistan, plus several thousand West Pakistani police. They have hastily trained about 10,000 non‐Bengali home guards Razakars.

Estimates of the of Mukti Bahini pitted against this force range from 50,000 to 100,000; foreign observers think the lower number is probably the more realistic. The hard core of professional soldiers, and some of these are not highly trained, consists of no more than 15,000—Bengalis who defected to the Bangla Desh movement from the East Pakistan Rifles, a para military border patrol force, and the East Bengal Regiment, a better‐trained regular army unit. In addition, an estimated 30,000 to 40,000 new recruits—mostly between the ages of 18 to 25 and mostly college students but including many village boys — have been trained.

Many Bangla Desh, training camps and base areas are on the Indian side of the border, but a growing number, of the Bengali troops have been operating from “liberated areas” just inside East Pakistan. These areas, though not large, have been expanding.

Some of the new recruits are being trained as regular troops and others as guerrillas. The latter adopt village dress and mix with the local population. There are many more volunteers, how ever, than the Mukti Bahini can absorb, primarily because of a shortage of weapons, and a large number of boys simply mark time after getting their rudimentary basic training—which is hardly more than physical exercises and elementary driving.

The Mukti Bahini's weapons are a motley lot. There are some Sten guns, light machine guns and other automatic Weapons, and many ancient single‐shot rifles: The heaviest Weapons in the arsenal are light and medium mortars—and not too many of them. These arms are of varying makes and age, some captured from the Pakistani troops and some— though far from enough, the Bengalis complain — provided by the Indians.

Yet with all these problems, the Mukti Bahini has effectively harassed the Pakistani Army, pinned it down in some areas and stretched its lines thin all over East Pakistan. Reliable reports indicate that Pakistani casualties are increasing. The guerrillas also continue to assassinate members of the local ‘’peace committees,” made up of non‐Bengalis and other collaborators assigned to carry out administration, of areas under army occupation. No figures are available on guerrilla casualties, but they are believed to be low. However, with every guerrilla raid, the army burns hamlets and kills villagers in reprisal.

The guerrillas’ greatest success has been their ability to reduce the army's mobility by keeping East Pakistan's communications system in chaos—blowing up bridges, roads arid rail lines. Guerrilla frogmen have also damaged or sunk at least a dozen seagoing ships—including several foreign ones —at anchor in harbors. Seven British shipping lines have suspended all traffic to East Pakistan.

Although the Mukti Bahini is much better coordinated than it was six months ago, it is not a monolithic fighting force. Splinter groups have started operations on their own, including some pro‐Peking Communists. One group, led by non‐Communist militant students from Dacca, is said to have established a base in the Indian border state of Tripura with a band of 1,500 men. Still; there is no sign at this point either of any serious division within the Bangla Desh movement or of the movement swinging to the left.

With the monsoon rains over and the ground firming up, it is expected that both the Mukti Bahini and the Pakistani troops will step up their activities in East Pakistan. Heavily guarded freight trains have hem rolling into Calcutta, carrying military supplies reportedly destined for the Mukti.

This seems to indicate that the Indian Government has agreed to increase its arms aid to the guerrillas.

But Mukti Bahini commanders, straining at the bit, continue to press for even more —Indian logistic support and air cover for a frontal offensive to seize a sizable piece of East Pakistan, where the Bangla Desh Government, now based in Calcutta, to be established.

The Indians have so far balked, because they feel this would immediately, provoke a general war with Pakistan. The Bangla Desh leaders argue that for all the effectiveness of guerrilla Warfare, its hit‐and‐run nature will sap the independence movement of Popular support because of the West Pakistani reprisals against the civilian population.

“We will lose the sympathy of many villagers,” said, one high Bengali officer. “They tell us, ‘if you want our support, you must come in full force, and stay and protect us.”

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

_"They are the friends of our enemies" - M A Jinnah observing the rebellion of the Bengali students on the question of Urdu, a distinguisher for the sub-continental Muslims, being the state language

"India and BD are like husband and wife" - BD FM Abdul Momen

"BD is the most successful RAW ops" - B Raman, ex Deputy Chief of RAW 

"BD is like Sita, rescued from the clutches of Ravana by Ram" - a top BJP leader
_

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## Jackdaws

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> _"They are the friends of our enemies" - M A Jinnah observing the rebellion of the Bengali students on the question of Urdu, a distinguisher for the sub-continental Muslims, being the state language
> 
> "India and BD are like husband and wife" - BD FM Abdul Momen
> 
> "BD is the most successful RAW ops" - B Raman, ex Deputy Chief of RAW
> 
> "BD is like Sita rescued from the clutches of Ravana" - a top BJP leader
> _
> View attachment 585953


They won the election fair and square. Should have let Mujib be PM instead of blaming India all the time.

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## The Ronin

*Two yrs before 1971 war, RAW’s RN Kao told Indira Gandhi to be ready for Pakistan partition*

*In contrast, higher levels of MEA took a more conservative view and argued that Pakistan's unity was in India’s interest.*

ZORAWAR DAULET SINGH 1 December, 2019 1:00 pm IST

Despite a domestic national election at home, Delhi was fully cognizant of the dramatic internal crisis in Pakistan’s body politic. There is also evidence to suggest that some of the ingredients of an interventionist strategy might have already been in place before events in East Pakistan exploded. Internal communications reveal two competing images. One image was represented by R.N. Kao, Chief of R&AW and Indira Gandhi’s trusted confidante, who perceived the crisis in more ominous terms and advocated an advantageous realpolitik to exploit Pakistan’s internal fissures. A second image was represented by sections in the MEA, who perceived the crisis in more benign terms and advocated a non-interventionist posture. Interestingly, as early as 1969, Kao had been arguing that East Pakistan was poised for deeper turmoil and possible secession and that India ‘should be prepared for it’. And his perceptions got stronger as the crisis came closer. In an April 1969 intelligence cable, he had foreseen an impending crisis across the border:

_The authorities would have to resort to large-scale use of the Army and other paramilitary forces in East Pakistan to curb a movement, which has already gained considerable strength. The use of force is likely, in turn, to lead to a situation where the people of East Pakistan, supported by elements of the East Bengal Rifles (who are known to be sympathetic towards the secessionist movement as evidenced from the recent East Pakistan Conspiracy Case), may rise in revolt against the Central Authority and even declare their independence … although this possibility may not be immediate at present, it would be desirable that the Government of India should think about the policy it should adopt in such an eventuality and keep its options open._

Kao’s implied advice to exploit a crisis should it arise seems to fit comfortably with Indira Gandhi’s security seeker role. In contrast, the higher levels of the MEA were taking a more conservative view. Senior officials argued that Pakistan’s unity was in India’s interest, and hoped that the Awami League would emerge as the dominant political voice of a unified Pakistan, which in turn would change Pakistan’s external behaviour towards India. A classic exposition of this view was reflected in India’s then high commissioner to Islamabad, Krishna Acharya, who cabled Delhi on 2 December 1970 shortly after elections had been held in Pakistan. Given the relentless hostility of a West Pakistani-dominated government, Acharya argued that majority control of the National Assembly by the Bengalis seemed ‘to be our only hope for achieving our policy objectives towards Pakistan and overcoming this stonewall resistance of West Pakistan’. And, ‘in order that this hope may become a reality, however, it is essential that Pakistan (with its East Pakistan majority) should remain one, so that we may pursue our policy objectives through the leaders of East Pakistan’.

Not only did the Indian envoy espouse the virtues of Pakistani unity, albeit reformed under the influence of moderate Bengalis, he underscored the grave dangers and geopolitical risks of an independent Bangladesh, which might demand unity with India’s adjacent province of West Bengal, and that such a united Bengal was likely to come under the influence of pro-China Naxalites. Acharya warned that India’s ‘strategic and defence problems will be multiplied manifold’ by a breakup of Pakistan. Foreign Secretary T.N. Kaul also felt ‘that India should do nothing to encourage the separation of East Pakistan from West Pakistan but he added that it did not lie in India’s hands to stop it’. Sections of the mainstream media too favoured non-interference. For example, Girilal Jain, a leading journalist, suggested that ‘two propositions—a declaration of interest in Pakistan’s unity and an attempt to persuade the two superpowers not to interfere in its affairs’—could serve as policy guidelines as they did for Nehru.

The above belief from the MEA was a more passive and conservative outlook compared to Kao’s strategic activism, and arguably more consistent with Nehru’s conflict avoidance images. These two competing worldviews again reflected in a 6 January 1971 inter-agency meeting attended by senior MEA and R&AW officials. Kao argued that Bengali national aspirations had deep roots and were at a point of no return, with neither the Awami League nor West Pakistani leaders likely to find common ground after the League’s extraordinary electoral success. The Pakistan Army, moreover, would reject a fundamental change in Pakistani politics and would attempt to re-seize control of the situation. Kao defined the policy problem, as he had suggested in 1969: that India should prepare itself for the succession of East Bengal and develop a capacity to assist the liberation movement to achieve early success.

Kao was supported in this assessment by an MEA official, Asoke Ray, who concurred that a secessionist movement would advance India’s interests. This policy option was challenged by Acharya and another senior diplomat, S.K. Banerji, who argued that succession was not a foregone conclusion, and the Pakistani system’s ability to find a rational arrangement that preserved a unified state could not be ruled out. Why is it that the same material situation was being perceived by two such contrasting perspectives? It appears that Nehru’s core images regarding conflict avoidance and a reluctance to disturb the geopolitical status quo in the subcontinent were still strong in sections of the MEA. These officials perceived and defined events with an eye on stability and tension reduction as Nehru had done in the first East Bengal crisis in 1950. The competing images, embodied by Kao and Ray, were more consistent with Indira Gandhi’s beliefs, where the impulse to reshape the subcontinent’s order, coercively if necessary, was a natural reaction to Pakistan’s domestic problems.

By mid-January 1971, Kao’s perceptions were growing stronger and finding resonance with his colleagues at the apex. In a 14 January assessment, he noted that ‘hard liners’ in the military, the ‘privileged bureaucrats’, and ‘feudal interests’ might exert pressure on General Yahya Khan, the President and Army Chief, to try and reverse the trend towards the transfer of power to the Awami League. However, the Bengalis ‘and even some sections of the people in the Western Wing, would not be hoodwinked by such tactics’. Kao also highlighted the possibility of a diversionary military move by Pakistan in the form of ‘an infiltration campaign into J&K’ to deflect attention from its internal problems. P.N. Haksar too had recorded his uneasiness about Pakistan. The Awami League’s victory had complicated Pakistan’s internal problems and ‘the temptation’ for ‘external adventures’ had become greater. He advised the Prime Minister to instruct the Service Chiefs for an urgent military assessment including ‘recommendations of what the requirements of each of the Services are so that we can feel a sense of security’.

Meanwhile, events on the ground were confirming Kao’s hypothesis. In mid-February, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto of the Pakistan People’s Party ruled out negotiations with the Awami League to frame a new constitution and declared that his party would not attend the new National Assembly sessions. On 1 March, Yahya Khan announced a postponement of the National Assembly. Fearing a conspiracy, Mujibur Rahman responded with a call for a ‘peaceful non-cooperation’ movement, which galvanized people across East Pakistan. Indira Gandhi appears to have been persuaded by Kao’s definition of the problem because on 2 March the Prime Minister authorized the formation of a high level Committee consisting of the Cabinet Secretary, P.N. Haksar, R.N. Kao, T.N. Kaul, and the Home Secretary to examine the political, economic, and military implications of India assisting a Bangladesh liberation movement. The assessment included ‘the question whether West Pakistan would retaliate against India particularly in Kashmir’ and ‘whether there would be any military reaction on the part of China’. The R&AW Chief now sought to convince Haksar and the Prime Minister as to why India should initiate a sustained and speedy programme of assistance to the East Bengal liberation movement. While the Pakistan Army ‘may gain some temporary successes’, it would be ‘impossible for them anymore to completely crush the liberation movement’. The longer the struggle took, Kao argued, the greater were the prospects of the movement falling ‘into the hands of extremists and pro-China communists, in Bangladesh’. Hence, ‘it would be in our own interest to give aid, adequate and quick enough, to ensure the early success of the liberation movement under the control and guidance of the Awami League and its leaders’.’

It is apparent from her 2 March decision that Indira Gandhi was receptive to exploring the policy option of exploiting the crisis. This was a significant decision and is consistent with Indira Gandhi’s security seeker role. To be sure, policymakers were also being prudent by preparing for a possible diversionary ploy by Pakistan to export its internal vulnerability onto Kashmir or even the Indian heartland, as R&AW’s 14 January appreciation had indicated. Nehru too had agreed to make defensive military preparations to counteract a potential Pakistani move in Kashmir during the 1950 East Bengal crisis. This time, however, Indian intentions are clear from the apex-level Committee’s terms of reference: to examine a role in supporting the Bengali resistance inside Pakistan. The policy option being considered was not just predicated on deterrence but aimed at changing the status quo.

By mid-March, the crisis was out in the open. On 18 March, Delhi received a R&AW cable from Dhaka conveying Mujibur Rahman’s message, which repeated a ‘special appeal for help at this critical hour’. Expecting large reinforcements from West Pakistan, the Awami League leader sought Indian advice before deciding his next move. The telegram emphasized that ‘Mujib has no alternative but to fight for independence’. Haksar quickly reinforced R&AW’s recommendation and advised Indira Gandhi that India should not ‘say anything at all placatory, but be “tough” within reason’. This was ‘not the time to make gestures for friendship to Pakistan. Every such gesture will bring comfort to Yahya Khan and make the position of Mujib correspondingly more difficult … 2½ Divisions of Pak Army is poised to decimate East Bengal’.

https://theprint.in/pageturner/exce...hi-to-be-ready-for-pakistan-partition/325899/


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## The Ronin

An original kill list of Bangali intellectuals mostly murdered by the Pakistan Army and its auxiliaries.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

The Ronin said:


> An original kill list of Bangali intellectuals mostly murdered by the Pakistan Army and its auxiliaries.





Where is the evidence that the above list is genuine?

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## The Ronin

Raushan Ara Battery: A Forgotten Part of Our History

We all know about the famous Mujib Battery or 1st Field Artillery Battery in the War of Independence of 1971, the first ever artillery battery formed to provide necessary fire support to the freedom fighters. But do we know about the Raushan Ara Battery? Most of us don't. Let's remember the almost forgotten history of this battery in the war of 1971.

The 2nd Field Artillery Battery of the freedom fighters were formed to provide fire support under the command of Z Force. This battery was also known as Raushan Ara Battery or Roshenara Battery to the freedom fighters which was known as the Mukti Bahini Howitzer Battery in the beginning. The battery was named after an imaginary character created by Bikoch Chowdhury, a famous reporter of Daily Sangbad published from Kolkata. According to his story, Roushan Ara was a student of Eden College. Her father was a police personnel and she was a relative of Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. In March 25, she was in her home at Natore in Rajshahi. When the war started, she formed a female brigade. One night, she was informed that the pakistani soldiers were headed to Rajshahi with tanks from Bogra Cantonment. She decided to stop them and wearing her favourite green saree, she came out with three anti-tank mines tied in her body. She jumped in front of the tanks and destroyed a tank along with 19 soldiers. The story became very much popular at that time and the female community of the country became very much inspired after it was published. The most famous newspapers of India as well as Bangladesh (at that time the main source of bangladeshi newspapers was the indian newspapers) covered the story with the biodata of Raushan Ara. Even poems, novels and dramas were written pointing the sacrifice of the girl. In India, hundreds of movements occured in her memory. After the independence, the prove of the story wasn't found. Bikoch Chowdhury then confessed that it was fake and he wrote it just for inspiring the freedom fighters. He was criticized a lot for this action. Bikoch Chowdhury said in his book 'Lokkho Muthite Jhorer Thikana' that the character's name was Fatema in the beginning. Ahmad Sofa, one of the most famous writers of Bangladesh, converted it to Roushan Ara. On the other hand, Ahmad Sofa mentioned in his book 'Olatchakra' that the initial name was Fuljan and he changed it later.

However, this battery included 6X Italian Oto Merala Mod-56 105mm pack howitzers. The operational activities of the howitzer started from September, 1971. Lt. Col. (Rtd) Kazi Sazzad Ali Jahir was the second-in-command and the forward observer of the battery. The battery operated successful operations in several areas of Sylhet including Baralekha of Moulovibazar, Juri, Shamsernagar, Kulaura, Fenchuganj, Monglabazar etc.

After independence, these guns were moved to the newly formed 2nd Field Artillery Regiment that time. This regiment was formed with these 6X Oto Merala Mod-56 105mm pack howitzer and. 12X Yugoslavian M56 105mm howitzer under the command of Major Rashid.

Pictures-1: Raushan Ara Battery's Oto Merala Mod-56 howitzer in action.
Picture-2: An operator of the howitzer battery.
Picture-3: Z Force insignia

All credits reserved by Ops Room.

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## bluesky

The Ronin said:


> Raushan Ara Battery: A Forgotten Part of Our History
> 
> We all know about the famous Mujib Battery or 1st Field Artillery Battery in the War of Independence of 1971, the first ever artillery battery formed to provide necessary fire support to the freedom fighters. But do we know about the Raushan Ara Battery? Most of us don't. Let's remember the almost forgotten history of this battery in the war of 1971.
> 
> The 2nd Field Artillery Battery of the freedom fighters were formed to provide fire support under the command of Z Force. This battery was also known as Raushan Ara Battery or Roshenara Battery to the freedom fighters which was known as the Mukti Bahini Howitzer Battery in the beginning. The battery was named after an imaginary character created by Bikoch Chowdhury, a famous reporter of Daily Sangbad published from Kolkata. According to his story, Roushan Ara was a student of Eden College. Her father was a police personnel and she was a relative of Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. In March 25, she was in her home at Natore in Rajshahi. When the war started, she formed a female brigade. One night, she was informed that the pakistani soldiers were headed to Rajshahi with tanks from Bogra Cantonment. She decided to stop them and wearing her favourite green saree, she came out with three anti-tank mines tied in her body. She jumped in front of the tanks and destroyed a tank along with 19 soldiers. The story became very much popular at that time and the female community of the country became very much inspired after it was published. The most famous newspapers of India as well as Bangladesh (at that time the main source of bangladeshi newspapers was the indian newspapers) covered the story with the biodata of Raushan Ara. Even poems, novels and dramas were written pointing the sacrifice of the girl. In India, hundreds of movements occured in her memory. After the independence, the prove of the story wasn't found. Bikoch Chowdhury then confessed that it was fake and he wrote it just for inspiring the freedom fighters. He was criticized a lot for this action. Bikoch Chowdhury said in his book 'Lokkho Muthite Jhorer Thikana' that the character's name was Fatema in the beginning. Ahmad Sofa, one of the most famous writers of Bangladesh, converted it to Roushan Ara. On the other hand, Ahmad Sofa mentioned in his book 'Olatchakra' that the initial name was Fuljan and he changed it later.
> 
> However, this battery included 6X Italian Oto Merala Mod-56 105mm pack howitzers. The operational activities of the howitzer started from September, 1971. Lt. Col. (Rtd) Kazi Sazzad Ali Jahir was the second-in-command and the forward observer of the battery. The battery operated successful operations in several areas of Sylhet including Baralekha of Moulovibazar, Juri, Shamsernagar, Kulaura, Fenchuganj, Monglabazar etc.
> 
> After independence, these guns were moved to the newly formed 2nd Field Artillery Regiment that time. This regiment was formed with these 6X Oto Merala Mod-56 105mm pack howitzer and. 12X Yugoslavian M56 105mm howitzer under the command of Major Rashid.
> 
> Pictures-1: Raushan Ara Battery's Oto Merala Mod-56 howitzer in action.
> Picture-2: An operator of the howitzer battery.
> Picture-3: Z Force insignia
> 
> All credits reserved by Ops Room.


In your long essay, you mentioned Roushanara and others, but I could not find you mentioned that this Z-Force itself was named after then *Major Ziaur Rahman, *one of the Sector Commanders, who later became the President of the country.

Unfortunately, Hasina Bibi regularly assassinates his character and tries to erase him from the minds of the people that will not go the way she wants.

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## bluesky

The Ronin said:


> Idiot the article written by Ops Room is about the history of 2nd Artillery Battery of Bangladesh Army not giving orgasm to your Golapi Bibi. Even a school boy knows who Ziaur Rahman is and who founded Z force. You just had to be the stupid to bring politics here.


Hey, blackey, you intentionally did not name Ziaur Rahman but mentioned many other irrelevant names. Zia was not a politics at that time. He was a fighter who declared the Independence of Bangladesh on behalf of Sk. Mujib. 

Bloody uncivilized b*stard!! Talk civility. Why do you have to show your stupid anger in every other post? How about your 1.8 cusec water movement? Is it still continuing? You are such an impossible junk!!


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## bluesky

The Ronin said:


> এই ভোগচোদ, আবালচোদা, ছাগুচোদা খানকির ছেলে তুই কোন চেটের বাল যে তোর সাথে আমার সালাম দিয়ে কথা বলতে হবে? তোর নিজের ব্যাবহার দেখছিস?! কানাচোদা আবাল দেখিস নাই যে এইটা Ops Room এর লেখা। তুই কি 1.8 cft মাল খায়া টাল হয়া এইখানে তর্ক করতে আসিস। চোদনা কোথাকার।


It seems you have been suffering from heavy constipation and gas/fart formation. Or, are you a blood pressure patient? Please see a doctor immediately. I pity your parents who failed to teach you good manners, at least a normal one.

A debate/discussion must be answered with information, truth and with a sense of humility. Learn the basics and contribute. I ask all the BD members to read your vicious style of writing and bad-mouthing. A real slum-d*g raised in a Dhaka slum where people are used to your kind of vocabulary!! However, you are not alone, BD is full of impolite people like you, very unfortunate.

Anyway, please get rid of your Japanese flag. Do you live in Japan or are you its citizen? No Japanese will ever lower his manner, I have not yet seen any.


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## Doctor Strange

bluesky said:


> In your long essay, you mentioned Roushanara and others, but I could not find you mentioned that this Z-Force itself was named after then *Major Ziaur Rahman, *one of the Sector Commanders, who later became the President of the country.
> 
> Unfortunately, Hasina Bibi regularly assassinates his character and tries to erase him from the minds of the people that will not go the way she wants.



This Roushanara story shows how BDs have their imaginary remote control in West Bengal/Kolkata/India. WB based activists made BDs insane through these fictions. For example Satyjit Ray frequently used to mention Bangladesh name in his writings and movies before 70. Pakistanis didnt use to converse in Bengali language. BDs virtually became separate country in cesspool of these WB based comedians. This is why WB media infiltration in BD still remains a danger. Anyone with their right minds can calculate, how wars are won. Except BDs. With some mortars, 303 rifles, granades, nobody can win wars. Its the tank, aircrafts, Navy, all kinds of blockades home and abroad etc win you total war.


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## bluesky

Doctor Strange said:


> For example *Satyjit Ray frequently used to mention Bangladesh name *in his writings and movies before 70.


I think you are a little wrong here. Irrespective of the fact that there is a sovereign Bangladesh, the WB people always call their state also Bangladesh, not Bengal or West Bengal. So, Sattayjit Roy's use of the word Bangladesh in his movies is technically not really baseless and without a background.

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## Bilal9

Please don't judge me for posting this. This is about Biharis, their role in 1971 and their current lives in Bangladesh. Neutral account in my view. "Beraham Asmaan - Meri Manjil Bata Hai Kahan..."

With subtitles.

The film in gist - is an effort to identify and solve existing Bengali prejudices against the descendants of Bihari immigrants and naturalize them into full functioning productive Bangladeshi citizens.

I suggest all Bangladeshi bhais to take a look at this and judge how we have been treating Biharis. @Homo Sapiens, @UKBengali, @Black_cats

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## El Sidd

@Slav Defence 

thread ban me. prevention is better than cure

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## Slav Defence

Kindly converse in English. I will issue warnings without any hesitation if found any other language being used.
In addition to that please be civil and try to look forward instead of past. I do not understand why some posters want to dig past memoirs and some fabricated history though that time has been passed and Pakistan has moved forward and so Bengal has become Bangladesh?
If some masses within BD are trying to use similar hate mongering strategy like that of BJP then everyone can see today where India stands today.
Next time, in this sanctum I hope that I will be only tagged when any future projects regarding Pak-BD shall be discussed.
Regards

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## SylhetiBDeshiAmerican

Bilal9 said:


> Please don't judge me for posting this. This is about Biharis, their role in 1971 and their current lives in Bangladesh. Neutral account in my view. "Beraham Asmaan - Meri Manjil Bata Hai Kahan..."
> 
> With subtitles.
> 
> The film in gist - is an effort to identify and solve existing Bengali prejudices against the descendants of Bihari immigrants and naturalize them into full functioning productive Bangladeshi citizens.
> 
> I suggest all Bangladeshi bhais to take a look at this and judge how we have been treating Biharis. @Homo Sapiens, @UKBengali, @Black_cats


This is so Sad. They need to get Bangladeshi citizenship as soon possible.

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## UKBengali

SylhetiBDeshiAmerican said:


> This is so Sad. They need to get Bangladeshi citizenship as soon possible.




@Bilal9 


I thought all Biharis had already been offered BD citizenship but some of the elders are refusing as they think of themselves as Pakistani?

Recently BD government announced that they will start moving Biharis out of their slums and into apartments that they could afford.

I do not see what else BD can do for them.

The past has been forgotten and they will be given all the assistance to become normal BD citizens with all the rights and responsibilities of any other BD'shis.


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## SylhetiBDeshiAmerican

Bilal9 said:


> Please don't judge me for posting this. This is about Biharis, their role in 1971 and their current lives in Bangladesh. Neutral account in my view. "Beraham Asmaan - Meri Manjil Bata Hai Kahan..."
> 
> With subtitles.
> 
> The film in gist - is an effort to identify and solve existing Bengali prejudices against the descendants of Bihari immigrants and naturalize them into full functioning productive Bangladeshi citizens.
> 
> I suggest all Bangladeshi bhais to take a look at this and judge how we have been treating Biharis. @Homo Sapiens, @UKBengali, @Black_cats


At the end of the video, they were talking about preserving their Urdu language. I think it is the most civil thing to do. Their language should also be preserved, they are Urdu speaking Bangladeshi Citizens. Their Zobahn should be respected.

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## UKBengali

SylhetiBDeshiAmerican said:


> At the end of the video, they were talking about preserving their Urdu language. I think it is the most civil thing to do. Their language should also be preserved, they are Urdu speaking Bangladeshi Citizens. Their Zobahn should be respected.




While I agree that their language should be respected, they are immigrants into BD and so BD cannot really cater for their children to be taught the language in government schools as an example.
That does not mean that BD should get in the way if they want to set up private schools to teach their children Urdu.

Sylhet is different as Sylhetis are indigenous to Sylhet division and so the government should be allowing dual language instruction in schools in that case.

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## SylhetiBDeshiAmerican

UKBengali said:


> While I agree that their language should be respected, they are immigrants into BD and so BD cannot really cater for their children to be taught the language in government schools as an example.
> That does not mean that BD should get in the way if they want to set up private schools to teach their children Urdu.
> 
> Sylhet is different as Sylhetis are indigenous to Sylhet division and so the government should be allowing dual language instruction in schools in that case.



I like this analogy. Yes I totally agree. Some of the North African countries are trilingual. French, Arabic, Berber and Spanish to certain extent, English as well. I think English should be made official language of BD as well.


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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> @Bilal9
> 
> 
> I thought all Biharis had already been offered BD citizenship but some of the elders are refusing as they think of themselves as Pakistani?
> 
> Recently BD government announced that they will start moving Biharis out of their slums and into apartments that they could afford.
> 
> I do not see what else BD can do for them.
> 
> The past has been forgotten and they will be given all the assistance to become normal BD citizens with all the rights and responsibilities of any other BD'shis.



The older folks won't be around much longer. 

Younger Biharis don't even identify as Biharis (I am sure they speak Urdu at home though). If the children of Biharis are born in Bangladesh, they are Bangladeshi by birth. They all speak Bangla and are indistinguishable from a local Bangladeshi person.

That is how it should be.

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## Genghis khan1

Day Bangalis started killing west Pakistanis and Bihari, is the day Operation search light found it’s justification. PA did what any other Army would have done in-face of, open conspiracy, insurgence and treachery.

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## UKBengali

Genghis khan1 said:


> Day Bangalis started killing west Pakistanis and Bihari, is the day Operation search light found it’s justification. PA did what any other Army would have done in-face of, open conspiracy, insurgence and treachery.




This is so boring and illogical.

Mujib was the leader of Pakistan after winning a free and fair election and BD was the dominant group and so it was in essence Pakistan. West Pakistani military was an armed outfit at that stage that was committing terrorist acts against the rightful Prime Minister of Pakistan and so was the one in the wrong.

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## Genghis khan1

UKBengali said:


> This is so boring and illogical.
> 
> Mujib was the leader of Pakistan after winning a free and fair election and BD was the dominant group and so it was in essence Pakistan. West Pakistani military was an armed outfit at that stage that was committing terrorist acts against the rightful Prime Minister of Pakistan and so was the one in the wrong.


If he was a leader than he should have stop the killing of West Pakistanis and cooperated with law enforcement to brought the culprits to justice. Instead he conspired and instigate to take advantage for his political benefit.

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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> This is so boring and illogical.
> 
> Mujib was the leader of Pakistan after winning a free and fair election and BD was the dominant group and so it was in essence Pakistan. West Pakistani military was an armed outfit at that stage that was committing terrorist acts against the rightful Prime Minister of Pakistan and so was the one in the wrong.





Genghis khan1 said:


> If he was a leader than he should have stop the killing of West Pakistanis and cooperated with law enforcement to brought the culprits to justice. Instead he conspired and instigate to take advantage for his political benefit.



Conspiring went on - on both sides, more or less. How many in West Pakistan establishment would have supported a Bengali Prime Minister ascending to power for all of Pakistan at that time?

The military establishment (i.e. represented by Yahya Khan) and Bhutto was not going to let this happen. They were determined, Bhutto made a trip to Dhaka in 1971 to 'negotiate' right before 'Operation searchlight' went live in March of that year, it was a foregone conclusion what was going to happen.

Embassies and foreign missions started evacuating their personnel from Dhaka way before this. They knew.

Those who say 'Bengalis triggered it' are just trying to prop up scapegoats.

And why are we re-hashing this topic after 50 odd years? Who cares? Any finger-pointing is pointless.

Bhutto and Mujib have both been dead and six feet under for 40/50 years...


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## JohnWick

Bilal9 said:


> Conspiring went on - on both sides, more or less. How many in West Pakistan establishment would have supported a Bengali Prime Minister ascending to power for all of Pakistan at that time?
> 
> The military establishment (i.e. represented by Yahya Khan) and Bhutto was not going to let this happen. They were determined, Bhutto made a trip to Dhaka in 1971 to 'negotiate' right before 'Operation searchlight' went live in March of that year, it was a foregone conclusion what was going to happen.
> 
> Embassies and foreign missions started evacuating their personnel from Dhaka way before this. They knew.
> 
> Those who say 'Bengalis triggered it' are just trying to prop up scapegoats.
> 
> And why are we re-hashing this topic after 50 odd years? Who cares? Any finger-pointing is pointless.
> 
> Bhutto and Mujib have both been dead and six feet under for 40/50 years...


Operation search light was against that brain washed ignorant self doubted armed anti national terrorists.

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## Bilal9

JohnWick said:


> Operation search light was against that brain washed ignorant self doubted armed anti national terrorists.
> View attachment 644826



Dude you're itching to start a pointless troll fight. 

No one (least of all me) has time for this.

I'm sorry but you will be reported.

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## Cliftonite

We Pakistanis should accept our fault. Mujib deserved to be the prime minister. Why the establishment, for their own greed, broke the country in half still baffles me.

I mean the constant antagonistic attitude of Bangladeshis towards Pakistan annoys me, but I still feel 71 was the biggest tragedy in Pakistan's history. Yahya and Bhutto should have been hanged right then.

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## Destranator

JohnWick said:


> Operation search light was against that brain washed ignorant self doubted armed anti national terrorists.
> View attachment 644826


It was definitely sold as such to Pakistanis but not executed that way. Mainly civilians were killed.



Cliftonite said:


> We Pakistanis should accept our fault. Mujib deserved to be the prime minister. Why the establishment, for their own greed, broke the country in half still baffles me.
> 
> I mean the constant antagonistic attitude of Bangladeshis towards Pakistan annoys me, but I still feel 71 was the biggest tragedy in Pakistan's history. Yahya and Bhutto should have been hanged right then.


If you go back and reflect, the "attitude" you see is always in response to insults. Bangladeshis in this forum rarely bring 1971 up on their own. We all understand that the Pakistani people are not responsible. Heck most of you do not even know what happened.


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## Cliftonite

Al-Ansar said:


> It was definitely sold as such to Pakistanis but not executed that way. Mainly civilians were killed.
> 
> 
> If you go back and reflect, the "attitude" you see is always in response to insults. Bangladeshis in this forum rarely bring 1971 up on their own. We all understand that the Pakistani people are not responsible. Heck most of you do not even know what happened.



I agree to some extent. But some of your staunch AL members attack Pakistan unprovoked.


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## JohnWick

Bilal9 said:


> Dude you're itching to start a pointless troll fight.
> 
> No one (least of all me) has time for this.
> 
> I'm sorry but you will be reported.


Don't get it personal, its 50 years now.
Anyway your post is reported for trolling.


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## DalalErMaNodi

> Operation search light was justified.... Pak army done the right thing to clean his land from man prepared traitors....It was the last chance to clean the Bengalis blood.




Shouldn't have failed then ? 

Bengali blood is still not "clean"..... 

Won't be clean until we stop speaking Bangla, Eh?

Too bad then, because we will never stop speaking Bangla, our nation was here before all of you and will continue to be here after you, we will outlast you.


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## JohnWick

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Shouldn't have failed then ?
> 
> Now bengali blood is not "clean".....


Yup they still consider you an inferior race

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279447708588101633


DalalErMaNodi said:


> Shouldn't have failed then ?
> 
> Bengali blood is still not "clean".....
> 
> Won't be clean until we stop speaking Bangla, Eh?
> 
> Too bad then, because we will never stop speaking Bangla, our nation was here before all of you and will continue to be here after you, we will outlast you.


Dear, I am from Seraiki origin Punjab I speak both the languages just like all other Pakistanis....Urdu was just applied to make communication between different languages like blochi pashto sindhi punjabi seraki and bengali....just like English serves as an international language all across the world.... There was nobody to stop you from speaking Bengali....It is an other thing that many words of urdu starting with Arrhe Zhe Zay you can not speak like your Indian cousins.


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## DalalErMaNodi

JohnWick said:


> Yup they still consider you an inferior race
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279447708588101633
> 
> Dear, I am from Seraiki origin Punjab I speak both the languages just like all other Pakistanis....Urdu was just applied to make communication between different languages like blochi pashto sindhi punjabi seraki and bengali....just like English serves as an international language all across the world.... There was nobody to stop you from speaking Bengali....It is an other thing that many words of urdu starting with Arrhe Zhe Zay you can not speak like your Indian cousins.
> View attachment 653992




Perhaps, it may be so, but we wanted Bangla as the second national language of the second pakistan, it's only logical. 


Our language and culture is like our religion, surely you guys knew that ?


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## JohnWick

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Perhaps, it may be so, but we wanted Bangla as the second national language of the second pakistan, it's only logical.
> 
> 
> Our language and culture is like our religion, surely you guys knew that ?


The official language still use in Courts Banks military ISPR government departments like education health Forrest Agriculture is English....All the notifications and proceedings are done in English.... before partition, some films and song were made in Urdu language that's all..... the official language was English which is the most spoken language of all the world hundreds of different nation spokes that language even Chinese.
And as far as culture is concerned the Saree is still the official dress of Pakistani Army female officers....
Bengalis culture was studies in details in Pakistan Studies books all across theethe Pakistan....You can see old pak studies books which were taught before 1971....Just like all the different cultures of Pakistan is taught in Pak studies....
Any more Question please Ask....


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## DalalErMaNodi

JohnWick said:


> The official language still use in Courts Banks military ISPR government departments like education health Forrest Agriculture is English....All the notifications and proceedings are done in English.... before partition, some films and song were made in Urdu language that's all..... the official language was English which is the most spoken language of all the world hundreds of different nation spokes that language even Chines.
> And as far as culture is concerned the Saree is still the official dress of Pakistani Army....
> Bengalis culture was studies in details in Pakistan Studies books all across theethe Pakistan....You can see old pak studies books which were taught before 1971....Just like all the different cultures of Pakistan is taught in Pak studies....
> Any more Question please Ask....




Yeah remember how mujeeb won 1970 elections ?
Why didn't the West Pakistanis let him be their PM ?

Btw we are poor and uneducated people, why expect us to understand English ? And even if we knew English, why would we speak English over own beautiful language; Bangla ?


Clothing is not an important part of Bengali culture, so Saree isn't important to us.


Btw visit Bangladesh, if you can, we will not eat you, even if you're Punjabi.


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## JohnWick

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Yeah remember how mujeeb won 1970 elections ?
> Why didn't the West Pakistanis let him be their PM ?
> 
> Btw we are poor and uneducated people, why expect us to understand English ? And even if we knew English, why would we speak English over own beautiful language; Bangla ?
> 
> 
> Clothing is not an important part of Bengali culture, so Saree isn't important to us.
> 
> 
> Btw visit Bangladesh, if you can, we will not eat you, even if you're Punjabi.


Mujeeb won the election by saying that the West Pakistani feeding on your Rice and Agricultural products, making money by selling your agriculture products and in return gives you nothing....The west Pakistan is a desert area, ,In short they are all depends on us....
Dear, the English were only imposed as for conversation between the different people speaking different languages....just like you and me are communicating with each other....If there was no partition and you are an East Pakistani then we will still be communicating like this.... Why you can not understand that thing????
After 18th amendment of Constitution all the Provinces are able to take major dession by their own just like States in USA....If there was no Partition then now you will be pretty much same as you are now....The only difference is will be a flag and government embelem....Sheikh Hassina will still rulling you just like Usman Buzdar's government here in Punjab, Pakistan.


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## DalalErMaNodi

JohnWick said:


> Mujeeb won the election by saying that the West Pakistani feeding on your Rice and Agricultural products, making money by selling your agriculture products and in return gives you nothing....The west Pakistan is a desert area, ,In short they are all depends on us....
> Dear, the English were only imposed as for conversation between the different people speaking different languages....just like you and me are communicating with each other....If there was no partition and you are an East Pakistani then we will still be communicating like this.... Why you can not understand that thing????
> After 18th amendment of Constitution all the Provinces are able to take major dession by their own just like States in USA....If there was no Partition then now you will be pretty much same as you are now....The only difference is will be a flag and government embelem....Sheikh Hassina will still rulling you just like Usman Buzdar's government here in Punjab, Pakistan.




Kind sir, Mujeeb won the election, plain and simple.


Greedy West Pakistani politicians didn't want to hand over power to a Bengali, we all know what happened next year.



No point debating what should've or could've happen now, this is today; 50 years later and nothing can be changed anymore.

Only thing that can be done is Islamabad and Dhaka engaging in talks more often and working out some kind of trade pact, if it is mutually beneficial.


At the end of the day, Pakistanis are not affected by what happens in Bangladesh and similarly we are not affected by what happens in Pakistan.


We have India in-between us. 

Where we can both perhaps agree is that the Sanghis in India need to be dealt with.


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## Kingslayerr

M


JohnWick said:


> Mujeeb won the election by saying that the West Pakistani feeding on your Rice and Agricultural products, making money by selling your agriculture products and in return gives you nothing....The west Pakistan is a desert area, ,In short they are all depends on us....
> Dear, the English were only imposed as for conversation between the different people speaking different languages....just like you and me are communicating with each other....If there was no partition and you are an East Pakistani then we will still be communicating like this.... Why you can not understand that thing????
> After 18th amendment of Constitution all the Provinces are able to take major dession by their own just like States in USA....If there was no Partition then now you will be pretty much same as you are now....The only difference is will be a flag and government embelem....Sheikh Hassina will still rulling you just like Usman Buzdar's government here in Punjab, Pakistan.


Mujeeb was a politician, what he was doing was politics. The main point is people gave him the mandate to rule Pakistan which was taken from him. He should've been allowed to rule.


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## Cryptic_distortion

JohnWick said:


> The only difference is will be a flag and government embelem.



This topic has been discussed multiple times in Pdf over last 15 years and no point to discuss any further, and yet you revive this old thread once every month? you are clearly trolling.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Are we still arguing about what happened nearly 50 years ago when the biggest threat facing both nations is the largest anti-Muslim scourge ever known to mankind.........


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## DalalErMaNodi

Cryptic_distortion said:


> Yep along with a couple of more differences such as
> 
> 1) Our Yearly Budget would have been 30% of Pakistan's 42Billion USD budget instead of $62 billion USD
> 2) We would be paying Rs165 for 1 USD instead of 85Tk
> 3) Our life average life expectancy would be 65 like Pakistan instead of 73
> 
> Also this topic has been discussed multiple times in Pdf over last 15 years and no point to discuss any further, and yet you revive this old thread once every month? you are clearly trolling.




With those facts, you're inviting trolls.


Don't give them an excuse to bash Bangladesh, there are only so many of us on here to counter them.

Would be better, if you edited your post.


Anyway, it's upto you.

By the way bhai, we have a long way to go yet, no point quoting numbers yet, better to do it when we have a massive lead, even better to not do it all until they make dumb comments.


Besides, we develop our country not to compete with Pakistan, but to make our country a better place than it was yesterday and to eradicate poverty.

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## JohnWick

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Kind sir, Mujeeb won the election, plain and simple.
> 
> 
> Greedy West Pakistani politicians didn't want to hand over power to a Bengali, we all know what happened next year.
> 
> 
> 
> No point debating what should've or could've happen now, this is today; 50 years later and nothing can be changed anymore.
> 
> Only thing that can be done is Islamabad and Dhaka engaging in talks more often and working out some kind of trade pact, if it is mutually beneficial.
> 
> 
> At the end of the day, Pakistanis are not affected by what happens in Bangladesh and similarly we are not affected by what happens in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> We have India in-between us.
> 
> Where we can both perhaps agree is that the Sanghis in India need to be dealt with.


No election in Pakistan is Plane and Simple I can assure you that....
There was a view of two states and one fedration all the people were pretty much agreed.
We decided to fight a war for 1000 years with India but Mujeeb does bot believe in that things....He was very friendly towards the Indians and want friendly relationship with them....Iraq is nearer to Pakistan than BD.
What are you talking about Bangladesh was made not to dealt with Sanghis.



Cryptic_distortion said:


> This topic has been discussed multiple times in Pdf over last 15 years and no point to discuss any further, and yet you revive this old thread once every month? you are clearly trolling.


What? WW2 is still discussed.


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## Cryptic_distortion

DalalErMaNodi said:


> With those facts, you're inviting trolls.
> 
> 
> Don't give them an excuse to bash Bangladesh, there are only so many of us on here to counter them.
> 
> Would be better, if you edited your post.
> 
> 
> Anyway, it's upto you.
> 
> By the way bhai, we have a long way to go yet, no point quoting numbers yet, better to do it when we have a massive lead, even better to not do it all until they make dumb comments.
> 
> 
> Besides, we develop our country not to compete with Pakistan, but to make our country a better place than it was yesterday and to eradicate poverty.


Agreed, perhaps we should ask the mods to close this thread, there is no more value here to discuss same things over and over again.


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## JohnWick

Cryptic_distortion said:


> Agreed, perhaps we should ask the mods to close this thread, there is no more value here to discuss same things over and over again.


WW2 still discussed even tons of books were written on it and many films were made on it.
People still talks about it.


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## DalalErMaNodi

JohnWick said:


> No election in Pakistan is Plane and Simple I can assure you that....
> There was a view of two states and one fedration all the people were pretty much agreed.
> We decided to fight a war for 1000 years with India but Mujeeb does bot believe in that things....He was very friendly towards the Indians and want friendly relationship with them....Iraq is nearer to Pakistan than BD.
> What are you talking about Bangladesh was made not to dealt with Sanghis.





We are dealing with Hindus long before you.


We are the only Muslim country with no borders to other Muslims nations.

We have no "muslim" countries to run to or seek help from and yet we are still Muslim, despite being surrounded by non Muslims for centuries.



Bangladesh is a bastion of Islam in a neighborhood of non Muslim countries.



We are one of the few Muslim countries that cannot be tagged with Terrorism, it's not easy sir, we are working hard to keep our reputation clean.


Other Muslims are making our life by committing acts of Terrorism abroad... When was last time a Bangladeshi blew up in a western country ? That's right never happened.



We are Muslim, albeit very moderate, regardless we will face the Sanghis whether you help us or not, we won't ask for help.



More importantly, Sanghis are religious extremists who threaten our Bengali way of life, be rest assured, we would fight them, even if we weren't Muslims.

In 1971 we fought without food in our bellies or clothes on our backs, anyone who threatens our beautiful land of greens and rivers, will be sent to their watery graves.

Unless they nuke us, we the Muslim Bengalis will always be here, until the end of times.


End of Discussion.

Joi Bangla!


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## JohnWick

Cryptic_distortion said:


> This topic has been discussed multiple times in Pdf over last 15 years and no point to discuss any further, and yet you revive this old thread once every month? you are clearly trolling.


I was just saying the truth which has to be said you can not btw despite having all that facts even Myanmar Air force can not get total air superiority over our air and even a single US aircraft carrier has more fire power then entire Bangladesh and still our soul is not thunderstrucked by CAA of India like your.


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## Cryptic_distortion

JohnWick said:


> I was just saying the truth which has to be said you can not btw despite having all that facts even Myanmar Air force can not get total air superiority over our air and even a single US aircraft carrier has more fire power then entire Bangladesh and still our soul is not thunderstrucked by CAA of India like your.



Cool Story Bro!


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## JohnWick

DalalErMaNodi said:


> We are dealing with Hindus long before you.
> 
> 
> We are the only Muslim country with no borders to other Muslims nations.
> 
> We have no "muslim" countries to run to or seek help from and yet we are still Muslim, despite being surrounded by non Muslims for centuries.
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh is a bastion of Islam in a neighborhood of non Muslim countries.
> 
> 
> 
> We are one of the few Muslim countries that cannot be tagged with Terrorism, it's not easy sir, we are working hard to keep our reputation clean.
> 
> 
> Other Muslims are making our life by committing acts of Terrorism abroad... When was last time a Bangladeshi blew up in a western country ? That's right never happened.
> 
> 
> 
> We are Muslim, albeit very moderate, regardless we will face the Sanghis whether you help us or not, we won't ask for help.
> 
> 
> 
> More importantly, Sanghis are religious extremists who threaten our Bengali way of life, be rest assured, we would fight them, even if we weren't Muslims.
> 
> In 1971 we fought without food in our bellies or clothes on our backs, anyone who threatens our beautiful land of greens and rivers, will be sent to their watery graves.
> 
> Unless they nuke us, we the Muslim Bengalis will always be here, until the end of times.
> 
> 
> End of Discussion.
> 
> Joi Bangla!


Oh sorry I don't even started the "discussion" TBH....Whats the difference between you and Sanghis if you were not Muslims....
You fought? WOW then whats Indian army doing there.... You can not match with pak armed forces....Just concerned that there is just BD and Pakistan....then either you will surrender your land with in hours or there will be a more then WW2 reply and then you will surrender.



Cryptic_distortion said:


> Cool Story Bro!


Lol that shows your lack of education
BAF 8 old mig 29 world most shot down aircraft on the other hand MAF with 16 JF-17 state of the Art machine armed with SD-10 and mig-29.
There are not many air forces in the word which can bear a volley of SD-10s on their face....AND IT IS CLEARLY NOT YOURS


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## Black_cats

*Was The 1971 Break-Up Of Pakistan Avoidable?*




Ahmad Faruqui July 26, 2020





On the 16th of December, 1971, Lt.-Gen. A. A. K. Niazi surrendered the Eastern Garrison of the Pakistani army to Lt.-Gen. Jagjit Singh Aurora before a cheering crowd of hundreds of thousands of Bengalis in Dhaka. When West Pakistanis got the news, they realised that an era had ended. East Pakistan had disappeared into the history books.

Pakistan, formed less than a quarter century earlier in 1947, was the first large post-colonial state to break up. Was the break-up avoidable? That question has kept historians busy for decades. The answer depends on who you ask. Dutch historian Pieter Geyl put it best: “History is an argument without end.”

Rounaq Jahan, a Columbia University scholar and East Pakistani native, wrote one of the first books on the break-up, “Pakistan: Failure in National Integration.” It was followed by a stream of books by other academics. The most cited work remains “War and Secession” by Richard Sission and Leo Rose.

A firsthand account of the transformative event appears in “Witness to Surrender,” written by Captain Siddiq Salik who was the Press Relations Officer for General Niazi. Years later, Niazi penned his own account, “The Betrayal of East Pakistan,” in which he shifted the blame to others. A fairly balanced chronology of events can be found here.

Was the breakup inevitable? This question leads to six others. First, could it have been avoided if Pakistan had not precipitated a full-scale war by bombing Indian airfields in the west on the 3rd of December?

*Second, could it have been avoided if the army had not launched Operation Searchlight in East Pakistan on the 25th of March, 1971? This was ostensibly designed to eliminate the leadership of the Awami League. After some initial successes, the operation turned into a Civil War. Soon it became clear that the opposing side was no longer a rag-tag rebel army but the entire population of the East. *The answer was a foregone conclusion since 45,000 troops with limited knowledge of the culture and terrain of the East faced off a hostile population of 75 million.

Third, could the break-up have been avoided if General Yahya Khan, the president, army chief and chief martial law administrator of Pakistan, had honored the results of the 1970 national elections that most observers regarded as the fairest in Pakistani history? The Awami League, based entirely in East Pakistan, had won an absolute majority of the seats.

READ Afghanistan: The 40-year-war (and counting)
*In February 1971, Yahya had publically referred to Shaikh Mujib, the head of the Awami League, as the future prime minister of the country. But Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, whose party had secured the largest number of votes in the West, successfully persuaded key generals in the army, who were all from the West, to pressure Yahya into annulling the elections.*

Fourth, going further back in time, could the break-up have been avoided if the people of East Pakistan had not felt marginalized from Day One?

Pakistan was the only country whose two “wings” were separated by 1,200 miles of hostile territory. In 1951, Pakistan had a population of 75 million of which the vast majority — 42 million — resided in East Pakistan. Bengali was spoken in the East. In the West, Urdu was widely understood, despite the presence of local languages.

Jinnah imposed Urdu as the single national language, not knowing that most Bengalis did not understand it. As early as 1948, in a speech at Dacca University, he told the Bengalis: “Make no mistake about it. There can only be one state language and that can only be Urdu.”

In early 1952, the Bengalis rose in protest. The government imposed Section 144 which limited how many people could gather in a single space. On February 21, 1952, in defiance of the law, students gathered at the University of Dhaka. Several were arrested. The enraged students attempted to storm the East Pakistani Legislative Assembly. The police opened fire, killing four.

As a result, Bengali was recognised as the second official language of Pakistan on February 29, 1956. The constitution of Pakistan was reworded, “The state language of Pakistan shall be Urdu and Bengali.” But in the eyes of the Bengalis, it was “too little, too late.”

Rounaq Jahan put it well, “The most formidable problem of nation-building in Pakistan after the state’s inception was the integration of the Bengali sub-nation…Bengalis were not merely the largest ethno-cultural subgroup of Pakistan but actually constituted a majority of the country’s total population.” They had little representation in the Pakistani military, civil service, the professions, or the entrepreneurial class.

READ Explained: The Mystical Methods A Successful Sufi Employs
Fifth, could the break-up have been avoided if the power structure did not reside in the West? While three of the prime ministers in the 1950’s were from the East, all were dismissed by West Pakistani leaders before their term ended. The imbalance of power worsened during the military dictatorship of Ayub Khan who again sought to make Urdu the national language.

Sixth, could the break-up have been avoided if the country had followed economic policies that benefited both wings? *Between 1950 and 1970, East Pakistan received only a quarter of federal government expenditures. The public infrastructure in the East deteriorated while it improved in the West.*

In September, a new book will be released that will shed new light on these questions. Gravely entitled, “Blood on Two Shades of Green: East Pakistan, 1971,” it’s co-authored by a Pakistan defense analyst, Ikram Sehgal, and Bettina Robotka, a historian from Humboldt University in Germany. The authors spoke last September in Islamabad at a conference and provided a sneak preview.

Sehgal and Robotka argue that Jinnah was given bad advice by the leadership of the Muslim League in East Pakistan, who spoke Urdu, when he decided to impose Urdu as the national language. The harm caused was irreparable. Thus, as early as 1953, the Awami Muslim League dropped the word Muslim from its name. The decades of economic and political exploitation that followed deepened the divide. Another contributing factor was that only one infantry division and only one PAF squadron were based in East Pakistan. It’s no surprise that Bengalis began to regard themselves as second-class citizens.

The authors also indicate that Pakistanis have yet to be given all the facts about what happened in 1971 and that censorship is a fact even in present-day Pakistan. And they assert that their history, like any other history, can never be fully objective. It would be hard to disagree with that.






Ahmad Faruqui
Ahmad Faruqui is a defense analyst and economist. He has taught at the universities of Karachi, California at Davis, and San Jose State. Faruqui is the author of “Rethinking the National Security of Pakistan” (Ashgate, 2003). Contact him via Twitter @AhmadFaruqui

https://nayadaur.tv/2020/07/was-the-1971-break-up-of-pakistan-avoidable/


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## Destranator



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## DalalErMaNodi

FFS!


Another thread over this, just what we needed.

The moronic comments that these threads spawn makes my BP shoot into the sky, I will make a mental note to keep away from this thread.

Think before you type!


Joi Bangla! Just for good measure.

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## cloud4000

The short answer is yes, it was avoidable. If Mujiber Rehman was allowed to become the next PM and formed the next government, the map of South Asia would look different indeed.

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## bhola record

It was bound to happen because of problem in our contries we hate each other based on our ethnicities.We still see lahore lahore aye,karachi ka muqabla nai ,ye to maila hai, wo dekho burger.etc plus politicians and their egos that is real problem dude what would happen if bhutto stepped down or mujeeb nothing laikin nai we are assholes . Who knew what would have happened if we stayed together great things but one influence of devill is more deadly than thousands whispers of angels

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## American Pakistani

No it was not. Sooner or later it was bound to happen. Pakistan and Bangladesh were like a forced amalgamation. 1947 should've been the Ch Rahmat Ali's and Iqbals vision.

Though I wish it had ended in a better way instead of so much bloodshed.

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## BHarwana

*Was The 1971 Break-Up Of Pakistan Avoidable? *

Today I will discuss this topic with my Bengali friends hope you will not go too harsh on me.

First my Bengali friends tell me was it avoidable or not & then I will take my shot at the topic.


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## N.Siddiqui

Demographically West and East Pakistan was separate countries...in linguistics and ethnicity too. 

And the idea for separate regions for Muslims to be carved out of India where there are Muslims in majority is what matters the most. 

In 1947 there could be two countries as well for Muslims, at the western and the eastern sides. 

So you call it Pakistan or Bangladesh, it doesn't matter much...the idea of separate regions(countries) are achieved. 

*So the Two Nation Theory is still relevant and valid. *

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## xyx007

Every nation has its mood, but what we have seen from history is that Bengali swings their mood every 50 years. Bangladesh and Pakistan have natural synergy because of *the same religion*, the *same national heroes*, and even our street names on our same national heroes. So, there is a *lot of miscommunication created by India*. Hope will be resolved between and start exchange people's connections soon.IK should consider removing visa restrictions to allow people contacts easily between the two countries. then will see how it goes.
we need to surface the Hamoodur Rehman Commission report in public and if we are guilty then accept our mistakes publicly and move on to economical progress between countries.

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## Fawad alam

Pakistan was not in suitable geographic position this is correct but still we could have avoid that split,
What i know is that split was planned long before 71 as per unclassified US documents (This what i read somewhere in last year) and as per interview of a Bengali person the situation was deliberately created so after split the new government will not be pro Islamic (because Bengali people are very good Muslims and the Muslims scholars are very respectable in Bengal) but based on ethnicity.


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## Species

BHarwana said:


> *Was The 1971 Break-Up Of Pakistan Avoidable? *
> 
> Today I will discuss this topic with my Bengali friends hope you will not go too harsh on me.
> 
> First my Bengali friends tell me was it avoidable or not & then I will take my shot at the topic.



Yes, could have been avoided. All Pakistan needed was an effective power-sharing mechanism defined by the constitution. Few proposals were extended in the early years, the Bogra plan for example, but were not implemented. 

I believe if the civilian governments were allowed to function properly, an agreement would have been reached ultimately to define this mechanism far before 1971, avoiding the whole debacle.


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## BHarwana

Species said:


> Yes, could have been avoided. All Pakistan needed was an effective power-sharing mechanism defined by the constitution. Few proposals were extended in the early years, the Bogra plan for example, but were not implemented.
> 
> I believe if the civilian governments were allowed to function properly, an agreement would have been reached ultimately to define this mechanism far before 1971, avoiding the whole debacle.


How was power sharing not happening? will you please elaborate on that as well? Just to inform you I will counter argument you on this in next few post so that we can have both point of views.


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## Species

BHarwana said:


> How was power sharing not happening? will you please elaborate on that as well? Just to inform you I will counter argument you on this in next few post so that we can have both point of views.



Power was held by the military which was dominated by Pathans and Punjabis; I'm precisely talking about 1958 onward. Both the political and military epicenters of Pakistan were located in the western wing. 

It's true that Bengalis already had a low military participation since the British period, but this deficit could have been compensated by either allowing the civilian governments to function properly to create a power-sharing mechanism themselves or by having an unofficial civilian-military agreement where the power is shared between Bengali-dominated civilian government and Pathan/Punjabi-dominated military.


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## BHarwana

Species said:


> Power was held by the military which was dominated by Pathans and Punjabis; I'm precisely talking about 1958 onward. Both the political and military epicenters of Pakistan were located in the western wing.
> 
> It's true that Bengalis already had a low military participation since the British period, but this deficit could have been compensated by either allowing the civilian governments to function properly to create a power-sharing mechanism themselves or by having an unofficial civilian-military agreement where the power is shared between Bengali-dominated civilian government and Pathan/Punjabi-dominated military.


If i prove you wrong here then what will be your point of view? I will do it with simple facts & discussion. Please don't get angry with me cause it is a discussion & if at some point I unintentionally hurt your feelings please forgive me cause I just want to discuss and it is a sensitive topic.
So in defence I would like to state these things. Pakistan came into being in 1947 both east & west Pakistan. With in 4 years of Pakistan getting established the unrest in Bangladesh started with the establishment right after the assassination of Liaquat Ali Khan in 1951 & on 21 February 1952 a day which is called in Bangladesh as Ekushey February the language movement reached it's climax. So how were Bengali's able to decide just in 4 years as they were being deprived of power & language just in 4 years after becoming a new country? My question is a valid question & I am trying to imply that your view which says that west Pakistan was at mistake is wrong & right from the very start the intentions with in Bangladesh were wrong & they wanted to have a separation no matter what, even if we did every thing correct. Please don't get flamed over this, just think logically what I am saying.

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## Species

BHarwana said:


> If i prove you wrong here then what will be your point of view? I will do it with simple facts & discussion. Please don't get angry with me cause it is a discussion & if at some point I unintentionally hurt your feelings please forgive me cause I just want to discuss and it is a sensitive topic.
> So in defence I would like to state these things. Pakistan came into being in 1947 both east & west Pakistan. With in 4 years of Pakistan getting established the unrest in Bangladesh started with the establishment right after the assassination of Liaquat Ali Khan in 1951 & on 21 February 1952 a day which is called in Bangladesh as Ekushey February the language movement reached it's climax. So how were Bengali's able to decide just in 4 years as they were being deprived of power & language just in 4 years after becoming a new country? My question is a valid question & I am trying to imply that your view which says that west Pakistan was at mistake is wrong & right from the very start the intentions with in Bangladesh were wrong & they wanted to have a separation no matter what, even if we did every thing correct. Please don't get flamed over this, just think logically what I am saying.



Language Movement is not even an issue, many of the top student leaders of that movement were staunch supporters of united Pakistan, Ghulam Azam for example. Such civil disturbances are normal for a new country, there were also riots in Punjab around that time on the Ahmadiyya issue, so the disturbances were not limited to East Pakistan only.

Bengali Muslims were the forerunners of Pakistan movement, there is no way a person would want to break something that he has just created. 

I've never said West Pakistan was wrong or East Pakistan was right or vice-versa, it's not the point. Politicians from both sides were looking for their own interests. My argument was whether there was a possibility to create a political atmosphere where interests of both sides could be preserved.

I still think this is irrelevant to the discussion. I mentioned about the political history from 1958 onward because that's when the cracks started to develop. I think it's better to focus on this part to analyze the issue: "Was the break-up of Pakistan avoidable?"


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## BHarwana

Species said:


> Language Movement is not even an issue, many of the top student leaders of that movement were staunch supporters of united Pakistan, Ghulam Azam for example. Such civil disturbances are normal for a new country, there were also riots in Punjab around that time on the Ahmadiyya issue, so the disturbances were not limited to East Pakistan only.
> 
> Bengali Muslims were the forerunners of Pakistan movement, there is no way a person would want to break something that he has just created.
> 
> I've never said West Pakistan was wrong or East Pakistan was right or vice-versa, it's not the point. Politicians from both sides were looking for their own interests. My argument was whether there was a possibility to create a political atmosphere where interests of both sides could be preserved.
> 
> I still think this is irrelevant to the discussion. I mentioned about the political history from 1958 onward because that's when the cracks started to develop. I think it's better to focus on this part to analyze the issue: "Was the break-up of Pakistan avoidable?"


You are a bit wrong my friend the language was one of the maim reason for this partition we can't deny that fact it was used. Urdu was never a language of certain ethnic majority in Pakistan cause Pakistan in different areas had a different language. People had Sindhi Punjabi Pashtoon Kashmiri Baloch Bengali all spoke different languages. 
Regarding your power sharing politics do you realize that Pakistan of that time was a democracy. Development done in the east Pakistan was higher than west so the reasons of power sharing being a cause are not valid.
Secondly if you make power sharing a cause then it also imply that this all was done to feed the ambitions of one person as power only goes to one person & democracy gives power to people.


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## Species

BHarwana said:


> You are a bit wrong my friend the language was one of the maim reason for this partition we can't deny that fact it was used. Urdu was never a language of certain ethnic majority in Pakistan cause Pakistan in different areas had a different language. People had Sindhi Punjabi Pashtoon Kashmiri Baloch Bengali all spoke different languages.



I know the mainstream literature in both Bangladesh and Pakistan consider it the main prelude to 1971 but it's not, trust me. Language movement was mainly spearheaded by Tamaddun Majlish, an Islamic organization based in Dhaka and its members were fierce supporters of Pakistan Movement. It could at best be considered an anti-government movement but not anti-state. And as I said, there were such anti-government incidents in West Pakistan as well at that time, so there's no reason to single out East Pakistan only.

If you persist, then let's just agree to disagree.



BHarwana said:


> Regarding your power sharing politics do you realize that Pakistan of that time was a democracy. Development done in the east Pakistan was higher than west so the reasons of power sharing being a cause are not valid.



Again, I'm focusing on the period from 1958 onward. I'm not interested in discussing the earlier events for reasons I've already stated earlier.

You are saying there was more development in East, most Bangladeshis will say it was more in West. Pakistan saw its greatest economic and development growth during Ayub Khan's time, in both wings, yet he's considered a villain in Bangladesh for suppressing democracy. Ironically, the same people argue democracy should take a back-seat to make way for development, in support of Hasina's rule. 

These are all narratives. And such narratives are created and disseminated by those who hold power. It's pointless to argue who's right or who's wrong. What we need to do is analyze the underlying conflict, that is, the disagreement between the politicians of both sides which eventually led to the break-up (and the dissemination of opposing narratives). 

My view is that this disagreement could have been sorted out by developing an effective power-sharing mechanism that I mentioned earlier. And there lies Ayub Khan's main flaw: the failure to reach an agreement between the two sides, despite the enormous economic growth achieved during his rule.



BHarwana said:


> Secondly if you make power sharing a cause then it also imply that this all was done to feed the ambitions of one person as power only goes to one person & democracy gives power to people.



It's purely incorrect to say power is only held by one person, democracy or not.


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## LeGenD

@The Ronin 

Sensible contributions advised.


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## mikkix

On this day proud Bengali nation got the independence from the clutches of fascism of islamabad and pindi.

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## SpaceMan18

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> And, Hasina has sold India short to China! And, that too when BD's cooperation and subjugation are most required to save the NE Indian parts for China is prepping to restore her "Lost Glory" owing to their weak Empire against the strong British!!
> 
> The fundamental Indian objectives behind the creation of BD were to weaken Pak to strengthen her military balance on the western front and counter China on the NE front. Both have now gone down the drain....
> 
> Man proposes, GOD DISPOSES...
> 
> *BD's area is around 140K km2. Around 40K km2 is already gone for India. 100K more to go._ Ilahi Adalet_ - tooth for tooth, eye for eye, km2 for km2




First of all India is name given by Romans I think , Bengal was always there and it was suppose to be a very progressive and liberal area but got ruined. The closest thing to Bengal is modern day Bangladesh just some issues with secularism. Most of Eastern India technically should belong to us. 

Bengali people under one country speaking Bangla makes sense , when you go to Japan you expect Japanese people speaking Japanese right ? Or going to Germany you expect Germans speaking German.


So how tf India takes all that ? India is too dam diverse which doesn't help their case.


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## Tom-tom

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> And, Hasina has sold India short to China! And, that too when BD's cooperation and subjugation are most required to save the NE Indian parts for China is prepping to restore her "Lost Glory" owing to their weak Empire against the strong British!!
> 
> The fundamental Indian objectives behind the creation of BD were to weaken Pak to strengthen her military balance on the western front and counter China on the NE front. Both have now gone down the drain....
> 
> Man proposes, GOD DISPOSES...
> 
> *BD's area is around 140K km2. Around 40K km2 is already gone for India. 100K more to go._ Ilahi Adalet_ - tooth for tooth, eye for eye, km2 for km2



BD lost 40km2? Territory?


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## LeGenD

Thread LOCKED and under REVIEW due to multiple reports.


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## LeGenD

Thread REOPENED for discussion after removal of Flamebaiting/Trolling/Inappropriate posts.

@DalalErMaNodi 
@JohnWick 
@PAKISTANFOREVER 
@Hakikat ve Hikmet 
@X-ray Papa 

All of you are notified to not respond to Flamebaiting/Trolling/Inappropriate posts in this thread and otherwise. All it takes is just one member to make a Flamebait post and there goes the entire conversation...

There are THEMES which might FUEL EMOTIONS *but QUALITY is in* how you carry a conversation and understand when to apply breaks.

@Hakikat ve Hikmet 

You are good poster - choose your QUOTES wisely.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

LeGenD said:


> Thread REOPENED for discussion after removal of Flamebaiting/Trolling/Inappropriate posts.
> 
> @DalalErMaNodi
> @JohnWick
> @PAKISTANFOREVER
> @Hakikat ve Hikmet
> @X-ray Papa
> 
> All of you are notified to not respond to Flamebaiting/Trolling/Inappropriate posts in this thread and otherwise. All it takes is just one member to make a Flamebait post and there goes the entire conversation...
> 
> There are THEMES which might FUEL EMOTIONS *but QUALITY is in* how you carry a conversation and understand when to apply breaks.
> 
> @Hakikat ve Hikmet
> 
> You are good poster - choose your QUOTES wisely.


If it's to increase the traffic from BD members I have got nothing to add...

However, I stand on my points for they can't be reasonably refuted by any Muslims.....

By the by, BD was created by breaking the largest Muslim country of the time! If _Iman _and _Ihlas_ aren't the criteria to evaluate this debacle then what is????

You're right though!!! While _Allah-u Azimushshan _is bestowing victories after victories in "Real Time" - be it in Azerbayjan, Afganistan, Libya, Northern Irak/Syria, The Eastern Med or somewhere else - upon us why to get bogged down in BD??? Especially while the mother of all stages is being set in Kashmir - 02/26 to 28 being its prior rehearsal - why try to "undo" a mindset that can't be changed???? The Muslims in BD are more than capable to set their own records straight by themselves, even if it takes 100 years....

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## JohnWick

@DalalErMaNodi @X-ray Papa 
only 1 rupees is used to send a letter from both sides by Pakistan post department.


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## JohnWick

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Depends on the content. So far it has been way below par. If you cannot celebrate victory day respectfully and with courtesy for Pakistan and Pakistanis, given that you are on a Pakistani forum, then don't expect to have those threads last.


Pardon me but is that General looks to do a Genocide with you?


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## The Ronin

*East Pakistan: The Goondas of Saidpur*

SILIGURI, India—I am one of the unfortunates who managed to escape from the massacre perpetrated on the morning of June 13th at Saidpur (Rangpur), a non‐Bengali Muslim majority town of North Bengal in Bangle Desh. I call myself unfortunate because I left behind 150 members of my community including my parents, brothers, sister‐in‐law, nephew and nieces—butchered by the goondas of the Pakistan army in collaboration with the non‐Bengali police.

It all began when the hordes of Yahya Khan raided our house in the early hours of March 26th, 1971. At least 20 army personnel entered at 4 A.M. and arrested my father, Tulshiram Agarwala, at gunpoint and ransacked the premises. They beat all mercilessly. At about 4:45 A.M. they left the place along with my father. After that all our valuables—cash, ornaments, radio, watches, even garments—were missing.

Soon after it was announced that not a single Hindu would be allowed to leave Saidpur. We were subjected to forced labor from April 3d onwards, on the construction of the Garodangi bridge from 7 A.M. to 7 P.M. under the supervision of Havaldar Fateh Khan. Fateh Khan carried a scourge in his hand and whipped us cruelly. He also used very abusive language such as “Kafiron Ki Aulad,” “Gaddaro,” etc. He also used to take bribes from us.

Later we worked on the Bhadgaon Bridge and the aerodrome. On May 18th at about 11 P.M. eight persons were kidnapped by army personnel with the help of local goondas. They were killed by bayonets that same night.

On June 6 we were put aboard a bus under police escort and taken to a cantonment. In such a treacherous way all Hindu male members of the community numbering about 80 above the age of 12 were arrested and kept confined in military cells.

On June 8th we were called before a commission. They made a list of our properties, movable and immovable, and then Major Saved put forward the following question:
Whether we wanted to go to India.

Whether we wanted to stay in Pakistan. If we chose to live in Pakistan we would have to embrace Islam. We thought these contentions absurd and rejected them outright.

On June 9th, Major Javed, Captain Bakhtiar Lall, Md. Quiyun and Md. Zamal went to our houses and threatened the women that their male members would be shot dead if they kept concealed any valuables. They looted all the remaining cash, orna ments and other valuables. They also forced us to sign blank papers and cheques. Bank vaults were opened and the contents snatched away.

Bullets Were Too Dear To Use in Wiping Out The East Bengalis

On June 13th at about 2 A.M. we were awakened by the guards and put aboard a bus in a great haste and brought ito the Saidpur Railway Station. Our family members were also brought there. We were informed by Major Zamal of Saidpur Police Station, that we would be sent to India‐via Chilhati border. We were put aboard a train along with our family members totalling about 400 Marwaries, Bengalis and Behars (all Hindus) in four compartments under non‐Bengali policemen and military supervision.

In the early hours when it was still dark outside, the train started but it stopped about one mile from the station near a graveyard known as “Maran Kuthir.” There we found the goondas of Saidpur armed with swords and daggers ready for butchering. We also found that large trenches were dug for burying the bodies after killing.

As soon as the train stopped, police and military numbering about 25 alighted from the train and took positions with their guns outside the cars. After a while the executioners started their work. We saw to our amazement three or four goondas boarding the first car (we were occupying the second). They tied the hands of one person, took him away and cut his neck very neatly with swords and threw him in the ditch.

When I saw the fate of the seventh person I personally requested the guards to shoot us all instead of butchering us. They told us to keep quiet as we would be executed in the manner prescribed by the higher authorities because bullets were not so cheap to be used on Kafirs and Gaddars.

The next moment we started to jump from the train. They opened fire from all directions indiscriminately. We ran helter skelter and in the confusion out of 80 occupants of the second car, twenty‐one managed to escape. We took shelter in a nearby village and with the help of Bengali Moslems after traveling 125 miles on foot we crossed the border and reached India on June 20th.









East Pakistan: The Goondas of Saidpur (Published 1971)


P D Agarwala, E Pakistani who escaped to India, recounts events starting on Mar 26 that he says culminated in massacre perpetrated on morning of June 13 at Saidpur by 'goondas' of Pakistani Army, in collaboration with non‐Bengali police; charges that they butchered 150 members of his community...




www.nytimes.com

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## DalalErMaNodi

The Ronin said:


> View attachment 693406
> 
> 
> *East Pakistan: The Goondas of Saidpur*
> 
> SILIGURI, India—I am one of the unfortunates who managed to escape from the massacre perpetrated on the morning of June 13th at Saidpur (Rangpur), a non‐Bengali Muslim majority town of North Bengal in Bangle Desh. I call myself unfortunate because I left behind 150 members of my community including my parents, brothers, sister‐in‐law, nephew and nieces—butchered by the goondas of the Pakistan army in collaboration with the non‐Bengali police.
> 
> It all began when the hordes of Yahya Khan raided our house in the early hours of March 26th, 1971. At least 20 army personnel entered at 4 A.M. and arrested my father, Tulshiram Agarwala, at gunpoint and ransacked the premises. They beat all mercilessly. At about 4:45 A.M. they left the place along with my father. After that all our valuables—cash, ornaments, radio, watches, even garments—were missing.
> 
> Soon after it was announced that not a single Hindu would be allowed to leave Saidpur. We were subjected to forced labor from April 3d onwards, on the construction of the Garodangi bridge from 7 A.M. to 7 P.M. under the supervision of Havaldar Fateh Khan. Fateh Khan carried a scourge in his hand and whipped us cruelly. He also used very abusive language such as “Kafiron Ki Aulad,” “Gaddaro,” etc. He also used to take bribes from us.
> 
> Later we worked on the Bhadgaon Bridge and the aerodrome. On May 18th at about 11 P.M. eight persons were kidnapped by army personnel with the help of local goondas. They were killed by bayonets that same night.
> 
> On June 6 we were put aboard a bus under police escort and taken to a cantonment. In such a treacherous way all Hindu male members of the community numbering about 80 above the age of 12 were arrested and kept confined in military cells.
> 
> On June 8th we were called before a commission. They made a list of our properties, movable and immovable, and then Major Saved put forward the following question:
> Whether we wanted to go to India.
> 
> Whether we wanted to stay in Pakistan. If we chose to live in Pakistan we would have to embrace Islam. We thought these contentions absurd and rejected them outright.
> 
> On June 9th, Major Javed, Captain Bakhtiar Lall, Md. Quiyun and Md. Zamal went to our houses and threatened the women that their male members would be shot dead if they kept concealed any valuables. They looted all the remaining cash, orna ments and other valuables. They also forced us to sign blank papers and cheques. Bank vaults were opened and the contents snatched away.
> 
> Bullets Were Too Dear To Use in Wiping Out The East Bengalis
> 
> On June 13th at about 2 A.M. we were awakened by the guards and put aboard a bus in a great haste and brought ito the Saidpur Railway Station. Our family members were also brought there. We were informed by Major Zamal of Saidpur Police Station, that we would be sent to India‐via Chilhati border. We were put aboard a train along with our family members totalling about 400 Marwaries, Bengalis and Behars (all Hindus) in four compartments under non‐Bengali policemen and military supervision.
> 
> In the early hours when it was still dark outside, the train started but it stopped about one mile from the station near a graveyard known as “Maran Kuthir.” There we found the goondas of Saidpur armed with swords and daggers ready for butchering. We also found that large trenches were dug for burying the bodies after killing.
> 
> As soon as the train stopped, police and military numbering about 25 alighted from the train and took positions with their guns outside the cars. After a while the executioners started their work. We saw to our amazement three or four goondas boarding the first car (we were occupying the second). They tied the hands of one person, took him away and cut his neck very neatly with swords and threw him in the ditch.
> 
> When I saw the fate of the seventh person I personally requested the guards to shoot us all instead of butchering us. They told us to keep quiet as we would be executed in the manner prescribed by the higher authorities because bullets were not so cheap to be used on Kafirs and Gaddars.
> 
> The next moment we started to jump from the train. They opened fire from all directions indiscriminately. We ran helter skelter and in the confusion out of 80 occupants of the second car, twenty‐one managed to escape. We took shelter in a nearby village and with the help of Bengali Moslems after traveling 125 miles on foot we crossed the border and reached India on June 20th.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> East Pakistan: The Goondas of Saidpur (Published 1971)
> 
> 
> P D Agarwala, E Pakistani who escaped to India, recounts events starting on Mar 26 that he says culminated in massacre perpetrated on morning of June 13 at Saidpur by 'goondas' of Pakistani Army, in collaboration with non‐Bengali police; charges that they butchered 150 members of his community...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com






Cue the denial from 'know-it-alls' who were 2000 KMs too far to have noticed anything.


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## Reichsmarschall

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1120939957798019072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1203368775820750848

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## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

Bangladesh has moved forward since its separation from Pakistan. The only way to save our motherland from further chaos is to punish the perpetrators of the *EP* debacle. First step would be the full implementation of the Hamoodur Rahman Commission report. One segment of our society has learned nothing from its past mistakes, its better they wake up and relent before its too late.

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## The Ronin

*1971 war: Witness to history*

A visit to Dhaka can be an overwhelming experience — not just because of the traffic, pollution, congestion or humidity, but also due to its history. As a Pakistani, I felt remorse, guilt and shame every time I walked into the corridors of Dhaka University. The names of the students, intellectuals and teachers, who died as a result of Pakistani military actions in March to December 1971, are prominently displayed. A number of other historical sites are also located on the campus or situated close by.

Shaheed Minar, the memorial for those who lost their lives in the language riots of February 21, 1952 – remembered in Bangladesh as _Ekushey_ and celebrated by the United Nations as World’s Mother Language Day – and Bangla Academy, established in the wake of the rise of the Bengali Language Movement in the 1950s, are part of the university campus. Opposite Bangla Academy is the famous Ramna Race Course (now called Suhrawardy Udyan) where Sheikh Mujibur Rahman made his famous speech on March 7, 1971, which ended with these ominous words: “The struggle this time is for our freedom. The struggle this time is for our independence”. The surrender ceremony of the Pakistani military also took place here on December 16, 1971.

Adjacent to Suhrawardy Udyan is another building which has become largely irrelevant for most Bangladeshis. Generally referred to as the Mausoleum of Three Leaders, this multi-arched structure built in the 1960s is the resting place of three Bengali politicians: Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy (1892-1963), A K Fazlul Haq (1873-1962), and Khawaja Nazimuddin (1894-1964). Suhrawardy and Nazimuddin served as prime ministers of Pakistan in the 1950s and Haq was one of the movers of the Lahore Resolution of March 1940, later renamed as Pakistan Resolution. The lack of interest in this mausoleum is reflective of the general apathy among Bangladeshis towards pre-1971 history.

Since 1971, anything honouring the founding figures of Pakistan have been renamed or removed. Jinnah, too, has not been accorded any respect because he had declared Urdu the official language of Pakistan while addressing a gathering in Dhaka in 1948. Post-1971, Jinnah College became Titumir College and Jinnah Avenue became Bangabandhu Avenue (_Bangabandhu_ meaning ‘a friend of Bengal’ was a title given to Sheikh Mujibur Rahman in 1969 after he was released from prison, following his arrest and trial for what is known as the Agartala Conspiracy Case). The vast area which now houses several government buildings – including the national parliament – was developed during the 1960s and was originally named Ayub Nagar after Ayub Khan. It is now called Sher-e-Banglanagar to honour Haq. 

These changes are symptomatic of a selective historical narrative that leaves out many developments that took place between 1947 and 1971 but do not help explain how and why the need to turn East Pakistan into an independent state became urgent and unavoidable. These changes include most of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman’s political career during that period. Like Suhrawardy and Haq – and, indeed, many other prominent politicians in East Pakistan – he was not always the separatist nationalist he is projected to be in both Pakistan and Bangladesh. During the 1960s, his Awami League was an active participant in mainstream Pakistani politics as part of the opposition alliance against Ayub Khan. He had also worked as a political lieutenant to Suhrawardy in the first decade and a half of united Pakistan and was a prominent participant in Fatima Jinnah’s presidential campaign in 1965. Even his famous six-point charter of demands was first presented in Lahore in 1966 at a meeting organised by the opposition parties.

It can be argued that Sheikh Mujibur Rahman took centre stage in East Pakistan’s politics only during the mid 1960s, when the three towering figures of the region’s politics – Suhrawardy, Haq and Nazimuddin – died in quick succession, leaving a huge political void. He seemed to be aware that, on his own, he would find it difficult to fill that gap and, therefore, requested Justice (retd) Muhammad Ibrahim to take up the reigns of the Awami League. Ibrahim retired as a judge of the high court’s Dhaka bench in the 1950s and later served as law minister under Ayub Khan from 1958 to 1962. He made several entries in his diary, which he wrote between 1960 and 1966, about Sheikh Mujibur Rahman’s repeated offers to him to lead his party.


> There were at least 3,000 trained personnel of the three forces who switched loyalties and joined the rebel ranks. The renegades from the security forces mostly fled to India where they joined the Mukti Bahini.
Click to expand...

Although he had joined Ayub Khan’s military government, Ibrahim was a staunch Bengali nationalist. Ayub Khan disliked him immensely and bypassed him completely while drafting the 1962 Constitution. Not only did Ibrahim frequently voice his concerns in cabinet meetings about the injustices meted out to East Pakistan but also suggested remedies. One of these remedies bore close resemblance to a demand later made by Sheikh Mujibur Rahman in his six points: create separate currencies for West Pakistan and East Pakistan. The idea – also known as the “two economy thesis” – was, in fact, first floated when Pakistani economists met in Dhaka to discuss the first five-year plan. As recorded by Bangladeshi academic Rounaq Jahan in her 1972 book _Pakistan: Failure in National Integration_, Bengali economists were cognisant of the historical roots of underdevelopment in East Pakistan and did not entirely blame the central government for their region’s poverty and backwardness. They simply demanded that East Pakistan be given preferential treatment in social and economic development, treating it as a special economic unit distinct from West Pakistan. Their demand, however, fell on deaf ears.

*Ibrahim blamed the Punjabi bureaucracy for this indifference and predicted the break-up of Pakistan because of the intransigence and greed of Punjabi bureaucrats. “The Punjabis want to rule Pakistan and they think that they have a right to do so,” he wrote in his diary. He also recalled telling a friend in 1947 that, “Punjabis are Pakistan’s Jhopar Kural (an axe used for felling a clump of bamboos)”. What he meant was that Punjabis would cut down the roots of the newly set up country.*

In a lecture I delivered at Dhaka University, I made a passing reference to Chaudhry Rahmat Ali. From the audience’s response, I could gather that they did not know him. When I asked the students whether they knew about him, they all said no. This says a lot about the course the study of history has taken in Bangladesh since 1971: most pre-1947 political developments are not considered relevant. This explains why the likes of Ali do not figure prominently in the historical narrative of Bangladesh, even though Bangladeshi nationalists could have used his story to strengthen their claim to independent nationhood. After all, the word ‘Pakistan’ as coined by him did not have any reference to Bengal. Similarly, because of a general lack of interest in the Pakistan Movement in Bangladesh, Bangladeshi historians barely notice that the Lahore Resolution demanded multiple “states”, rather than a single country, for the Muslims of India.

Bangladesh’s official and popular historical narrative refuses to take a long view of Bengali identity formation during the colonial period, in general, and the contribution made therein by the Pakistan Movement in the 1940s, in particular. This has created confusion in Bangladesh about whether the people of the country are Bengalis or Bangladeshis. Pakistanis, too, have a poor understanding of Bangladesh’s history. They simply look at the country as a product of an Indian conspiracy. The full extent of Bengali identity formation in the British colonial period and the developments which took place after 1947, resulting in the alienation of East Pakistan, are lost upon them. This is because books on the history and politics of Bangladesh are hard to obtain in Pakistan. Publishers in Pakistan have mostly shown interest in reprinting and translating books which support Pakistan’s version of the 1971 war rather than the ones that look at the fateful events of that year in their complete historical context.





'Bangladeshis need closure to forget what happened to them in the war of liberation’: Pakistani soldiers rounding up a Bangladeshi liberation fighter in 1971.| courtesy official Mujibnagar website 

In order to have a fuller picture, it is essential to go through such works as Sufia Ahmed’s _Muslim Community in Bengal, 1884-1912_ and Rafiuddin Ahmed’s _The Bengal Muslims, 1871-190_6. These writers have traced the history of various developments during the late 19th century, when a distinct Muslim identity was taking shape in Bengal. Two of the best books to have come out in recent years covering this subject are Neilesh Bose’s _Recasting the Region: Language, Culture and Islam in Colonial Bengal_ and Taj ul-Islam Hashmi’s _Peasant Utopia: The Communalization of Class Politics in East Bengal, 1920-1947._ Bose has been able to build upon earlier works and also explore extensive new material from political archives and cultural productions to find the link between Bengali Muslim identity and the popularity of the idea of Pakistan in Bengal. In the rural hinterland of East Bengal – that was both undeveloped and snubbed by Calcutta-dominated Bengali Hindu elite – Pakistan was a utopian land for Bengali peasants.

But the euphoria around the Pakistan Movement dissipated as quickly as it had come about. The frustration and disappointment with Pakistan developed almost immediately after 1947, as is documented by Ahmed Kamal in his book _State Against the Nation: Decline of the Muslim League in Pre-Independence Bangladesh_. Kamal’s book suggests that the provincial assembly elections held in East Pakistan in 1954 largely sealed the fate of Pakistan — much before the general elections of 1970, which are usually credited or blamed for the creation of Bangladesh. The Muslim League suffered a massive drubbing in those polls and could win only less than a dozen seats in an assembly of 309 seats. The Jugto Front or the United Front, comprising almost all the parties in East Pakistan except the Muslim League, won a whopping 223 seats. Yet, the central government dismissed the United Front’s provincial government only a few weeks after it came to power. The central government also made attempts to create fissures in the ranks of the United Front so that its majority in the provincial assembly could be whittled down.



> Books on the history and politics of Bangladesh are hard to obtain in Pakistan. Publishers have mostly shown interest in reprinting and translating books which support Pakistan’s version of the 1971 war.
Click to expand...

A historical narrative that covers all these complex subjects will bring a nuanced understanding of the creation of Bangladesh. There is no doubt that 1971 will always remain the most important time as far as Bangladesh’s history is concerned but, on its own, it will never be able to explain the origins of Bengali Muslim identity in the region. It was the evolution of this identity which led the Muslims in East Bengal to demand, and have, a homeland for themselves, separate from Hindu-dominated West Bengal — initially as part of a united Pakistan and, since 1971, as an independent state of their own.

Like all other nation states, Bangladesh has been struggling to construct, and impose, a single national historical narrative. But even in a state like Bangladesh, where ethnic and linguistic variations are few – if any – the process of identity formation remains contested. This explains why, in a state created on the basis of regional autonomy and cultural and linguistic rights, the tribes living in Chittagong Hill Tracts objected to the constitution adopted in 1972 which called the citizens of the country as Bengalis. As quoted by the academic Jahan in an edited volume, _Bangladesh: Promise and Performance_, Manabendranath Larma, representing the people of Chittagong Hill Tracts, instead suggested the citizens of the new state be called Bangladeshis.

But this suggestion only half-addressed the problem. While being Bangladeshi, as opposed to being Bengali alone, allowed non-Bengali citizens to feel included in the national fold, it led to a differentiation between Bangladeshi Bengalis – who were mostly Muslim – and Indian Bengalis – who were mostly Hindus – thereby creating a de facto religious divide between the two. This differentiation contradicted Bangladesh’s constitution which, in its original version, had declared nationalism, democracy, socialism and secularism as its guiding principles. The constitution has been rewritten repeatedly since then and secularism has been replaced with “absolute truth and faith in Almighty Allah”. Yet, Bangladesh’s quest for a unique identity which emphasises its Bengali origins without compromising its political sovereignty continues.





‘We need to know the details of what happened to the people of East Pakistan during 1971:’ Pakistani soldiers attempt to persuade a civilian in order to extract information | Courtesy of official Mujibnagar website 

One interesting manifestation of this quest is the use of Urdu words in Bangladesh. During the 1970 election campaign, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman used to raise the _‘Joy Bangla_’ (‘Long live Bengal’) slogan. At a ceremony to administer oath to the Awami League’s parliamentarians on January 3, 1971, he ended the event with two slogans: ‘_Joy Bangla_’ and ‘_Joy Pakistan_’. On the other hand, as reported by Khan Md Lutfor Rahman in _Nation Building Problems in Bangladesh: A Socio-Economic-Political Perspective_, when Sheikh Mujibur Rahman was killed along with almost all of his family on August 15, 1975, Khondaker Mushtaq Ahmad – the puppet president installed by the military – ended his radio speech with, “Bangladesh _Zindabad_”.

The use of ‘_zindabad_’ was clearly meant to send a positive signal to Pakistan which was promptly reciprocated by despatching a shipment of food grains to help the famine-stricken Bangladesh — a humanitarian crisis which has played a significant role in building up public resentment against Sheikh Mujibur Rahman’s totalitarian rule. Though this does not mean that Urdu has, since then, become acceptable in Bangladesh, the use of the word ‘zindabad’ indicated a major policy change in the cultural politics of Bangladesh and had an impact on its domestic and foreign policy orientations as well — moving away from secular nationalism and India but tilting towards religion and Pakistan.

Regardless of the difference in orientation, both the language-inspired Bangladeshi nationalism and its religion-driven alternative do not regard hundreds of thousands of Biharis living in Bangladesh as legitimate citizens of the state. The forefathers of these Biharis had migrated to East Pakistan in 1947 from the Indian state of Bihar and they come from an ethnic and linguistic stock different from that of Bengalis. Even though most of them want to become Bangladeshi citizens, they still live in squalid camps as “stranded Pakistanis”. *There are 400,000 to 500,000 of them living in makeshift settlements in Dhaka and other Bangladeshi cities. “I wouldn’t advise you to go to these camps”, said a cab driver to me. “They will recognise that you are from Pakistan and may get aggressive. They will say you guys are having so much fun there and we are suffering here because of you.”*

These Biharis are essentially stateless people as neither Pakistan nor Bangladesh is willing to accept them as citizens. Earlier this year, the Foreign Office in Islamabad told the Supreme Court that Pakistan had already resettled about 170,000 Biharis within Pakistani territory and those still living in Bangladesh were no longer Pakistan’s responsibility. In Bangladesh, they are not even eligible for citizenship despite the fact that they were living in the country when it became an independent state. Even though a vast majority of those living in the camps were born in or after the 1990s – or, at the least, after 1971 – they are still seen as traitors who collaborated with Pakistan’s security forces against the local people. “They were razakars (volunteers). They were involved in the genocide [of the local people]. We cannot forget that,” a professor in Dhaka told me.





‘The conflict in 1971 was the climax of a long struggle by the people of East Pakistan of acquiring autonomy through political means’: The Pakistani military conducting an operation against India during the 1971 war| courtesy official Mujibnagar website 

Possessing no identity documents, the Biharis are largely confined to heavily overpopulated ghettos where they receive education and health facilities through non-governmental organisations and aid workers. Their presence manifests a contradiction inherent in every nation state: that it has the impulse to minoritise some segment of the population on some basis. There will always be communities within nation states which are not ‘French enough’ because they don’t give up the hijab or tweet the hashtag _Je Suis Charlie_.

I happened to be in Dhaka at a time when Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi was on an official visit there. The people I spoke to – and I make no claims of having met a large number of people from different sections of the society – were being critical, albeit cautiously, of their own government for having signed agreements which promoted Indian interests at the expense of Bangladesh. India, for instance, managed to get official Bangladeshi approval for a transit route through Bangladeshi territory to create a direct connection between the Indian mainland and the seven north-eastern states squeezed between Bangladesh on the West and Burma on the east. Bangladeshis were shocked that India had got what it wanted without having to give anything in return. They had expected some development on the long-standing issue of water sharing – especially the use of the Teesta river – and the construction of dams by India.

India also finally ratified a border agreement which Bangladesh had ratified in 1974. The ratification will lead to land swaps at a number of small enclaves stranded on the wrong side of the border between the two countries but, as many Bangladeshis pointed out to me, it does not address the killing of Bangladeshi civilians by the Indian Border Security Force (BSF).

It may look like a long shot but the truth is that the Bangladeshi’s hatred for the BSF helped me understand the idea of Pakistan. This idea has come to exemplify different things to different people in South Asia, depending on their differing contexts. Crowds waving Pakistani flags in Kashmir do not do so because they deem Kashmir as the unfinished agenda of Partition but because they live as a persecuted community. For them, Pakistan signifies the will to power of a community that has established its own sovereign political authority which employs overt symbols, notions and laws representing its religion. The idea of Pakistan for Kashmiris, therefore, is akin to freedom from oppression or freedom from being relegated to a minority.


> Crowds waving Pakistani flags in Kashmir do not do so because they deem Kashmir as the unfinished adgenda of Partition but because they live as a persecuted community.
Click to expand...

In Bangladesh’s case, the idea of Pakistan resides in the desire to be on par with India. This parity was central to Muslim politics, including those in Bengal, during the decades preceding Partition. The All-India Muslim League and its leaders – especially Jinnah – argued at the time that Muslims in India needed to be treated as a special minority and, therefore, must be entitled to disproportionate representation, especially in the central legislature and constitution-making bodies. The Cabinet Mission Plan of 1946 offered exactly this kind of parity by allowing provinces to come together into geographically contiguous units, which would then join an all-India federation as regions with considerable financial, economic and political autonomy. The two proposed Muslim-majority units, Jinnah expected, would enable Muslims to achieve parity with the rest of India as far as the protection of their economic, political and cultural rights was concerned.

How is this idea of parity relevant to Bangladesh today? To find a detailed answer, one may have to look into the history of the relationship between East Bengal and West Bengal before Partition, East Pakistan and India between 1947 and 1971, and Bangladesh and India since 1971. At the surface level, however, most Bangladeshis talk about military parity. “Prior to 1971, if BSF killed one [Pakistani], East Pakistan Rifles would kill two [Indians] in retaliation,” is how one Bangladeshi put it. He then complained that Bangladesh could no longer afford to do that. “Look at the situation now. Indian BSF kills dozens of innocent Bangladeshis everyday on our borders and we are so helpless about it.”

Such will to power – the ability to respond to an act of aggression – was a strong factor in the movement for Pakistan and it continues to shape the idea of Pakistan for both Pakistanis and non-Pakistanis. Even certain sections of the Muslim population in India share this idea. When Nurul Islam – a Harvard-trained economist who had served in key government positions in Pakistan during the 1950s and the 1960s – went into exile in Calcutta in 1971, he found his Bengali Muslim host opposing the cause of an independent Bangladesh. In his book, _Making of a Nation, Bangladesh: An Economist’s Tale_, Islam recorded his host as saying that a “strong and united Pakistan was a balancing factor against India and provided some constraint on India’s discriminatory, if not outrightly hostile, treatment of the Muslims”. He also suggested that the “Muslims in the East should have settled their differences with Pakistan peacefully, without destroying its integrity”. Indian nationalist politicians, such as Nehru, and historians, such as Bipan Chandra and Mushirul Hasan, dismiss this idea of parity either as communalist or false consciousness. They fail to understand that it was, and continues to be, popular. There has to be some rational explanation for it. 

The popularity of the idea of parity, however, does not make it right. It is inherently confrontationist because it is premised on the equality of response the two sides can give to each other in economic, political, cultural and, most importantly, military terms. It also has the tendency to create a fascist sense of supremacy and the desire to wipe the other out of existence. As we see around us, this idea of parity is shaping the worldview of Pakistan’s burgeoning urban middle class which champions conservative and orthodox social practices, hates India (and Hindus) and glorifies military power. Those seeking parity with India in military terms also fail to understand its implications: a state with stunted political structures and limited economic resource base investing disproportionately in military expenditure to compete with a state six times its size, and with far bigger economic resources, will end up having its military as an overdeveloped institution. The necessary corollaries of this will be jingoistic rhetoric dominating the public sphere and endemic system failures in the political arena.

The controversy about India’s involvement in the 1971 war resurfaced while I was still in Dhaka. This happened because of Modi’s statement glorifying the role played by India in the liberation of Bangladesh. The Foreign Office in Islamabad responded by calling his statement an official admission by New Delhi of its guilt in bringing about the dismemberment of Pakistan in violation of the United Nations charter. This response not only lacked context, it also exhibited a woeful disregard for history.

While the rest of the world is already aware, the majority of Pakistanis must also be apprised of the events which culminated in Bangladesh’s independence. Most importantly, Pakistanis should know that the conflict in 1971 was the climax of a long struggle by the people of East Pakistan for acquiring autonomy through political means. It was only after the military operation of March 1971 that radical, pro-independence militant elements acquired widespread popular support in East Pakistan. It is also about time that Pakistanis acknowledge the terrible crimes committed by Pakistani administrative and security institutions in East Pakistan. To cite just one example, scores of Bengali intellectuals, journalists and student activists were brutally killed on the night of March 25, 1971, during a military operation inside Dhaka University’s Jagannath Hall. The hostel was targeted because most of the boarders there were Hindus. 





‘The founder of Bangladesh was not always the separatist and nationalist he was projected to be’: Supporters cheering ‘Banglabandhu’ Sheikh Mujeebur Rahman at the liberation| Courtesy official Mujibnagar website 

The resentment over the operation was so pervasive that the military found its own personnel seething with anger. Soon, East Pakistanis working with the police, East Pakistan Rifles and even the Pakistan Army started deserting their jobs. According to one estimate, there were at least 3,000 trained personnel of the three forces who switched loyalties and joined the rebel ranks. The renegades from the security forces mostly fled to India where they joined the Mukti Bahini under the military command of Colonel Osmani and the likes of Major Ziaur Rahman, who later became the president of Bangladesh. According to Colonel Osmani, as quoted by Bangladeshi economist, diplomat, and minister A M A Muhith in his book _Bangladesh:_ _Emergence of a Nation_: “If the Pakistanis had only limited their action against selected politicians, Bengalis in the army and the police force might have stayed neutral. It was only when information got around that the Pakistan Army was out to kill Bengali intellectuals and servicemen as well that we revolted to a man.”



> There is no doubt that 1971 will always remain the most important time as far as Bangladesh’s history is concerned but, on its own, it will never be able to explain the origins of Bengali Muslim identity in the region.
Click to expand...

The desertions were not limited to the security forces. When a government of Bangladesh in exile was set up in April 1971, the entire Pakistani mission in Calcutta switched loyalties and supported the government in exile. This was a huge embarrassment for the government of Pakistan, which responded by becoming more suspicious of its Bengali diplomats around the globe who, nonetheless, continued to quit the comforts of a diplomatic life to make their contribution to what they saw as a war of liberation.

From March 1971 onwards, the conflict in East Pakistan became a civil war in which the rebels enjoyed massive popular support. The means employed by Pakistani authorities to crush the rebellion during this period became extremely brutal. About 10 million people from East Pakistan had to flee their homes and seek refuge in India. Thousands of Bengali women were raped. Immediately after the war, international medical agencies rushed to Bangladesh to help with abortions. Others helped by offering to adopt children born out of this traumatic experience. Even the most conservative estimates suggest that hundreds of thousands of people died due to the combined impact of military operation, migration and war.

*The government of Bangladesh insists the death toll was close to three million and calls it genocide. While this is considered an exaggeration by most independent observers, what is unfortunate is the way the figure is disputed by revisionist historians and their eager supporters in Pakistan — as if bringing the number down to under a million would make it more justifiable or explicable. They also try to shift the focus by highlighting the atrocities committed by the Mukti Bahini against Biharis during 1971 and even afterwards. There is no denying that killings, torture, plunder and sexual crimes were committed against Biharis but that does not become a balancing factor. I do not have to recall crimes against Biharis in order to exonerate myself of what Pakistani forces did to Bengalis.*

Those indulging in such tricks must remember that Bangladeshis need closure for what happened to them during their war of liberation. By trying the members of pro-Pakistani militias such as al Badr and al Shams for war crimes, Bangladeshi Prime Minister Shiekh Hasina Wajed is playing politics rather than working for a closure. This is why these trials create more conflict and polarisation in Bangladeshi society. Bangladesh will not be able to get closure without our help. 





‘There is no doubt that the events of 1971 will always remain the most important time as far as Bangladeshi history is concerned’: A unit of Mukti Bahini celebrate liberation as Indian tanks roll in | Courtesy official Mujibnagar website 

Pakistan formally issued a half-hearted apology in the past but it does not mean anything. The official Pakistani policy since the issuing of that apology is to refer to the past as a closed transaction, urging everyone to move forward. But forgetting the past and moving forward is not a solution in this particular case since it involves large-scale death and suffering remembered as a lived experience by millions in Bangladesh. It cannot be forgotten, though its emotional and psychological scars can be healed if ordinary Pakistanis are proactive.

For that to materialise, we need to know the details of what happened to the people of East Pakistan — especially during March 1971 and December 1971. It won’t take much to empathise with them and feel their agony and pain. As a starting point, as suggested by Salil Tripathi, the Indian journalist who has recently written _The Colonel Who Would Not Repent: The Bangladesh War and its Unquiet Legacy_, let us petition for a memorial to be built in Pakistan to honour all those who died or suffered during 1971. Germany has done this for the victims of the Holocaust and the United States has done the same for those who died in the Vietnam War. Why can’t we?

_The writer is an assistant professor of history at the Lahore University of Management Sciences._









1971 war: Witness to history


Popular historical narratives in Bangladesh and Pakistan provide an incomplete view of the 1971 war and its implications



herald.dawn.com


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## PDF

The Ronin said:


> exonerate myself


Unless he himself commited any crimes, what is he guilty of? Some 2-3 generation ago, his family might have comitted crime. They will be answerable for their actions... He is just another... what do I call him...nevermind.
In war, wrongs do happen, Pakistani side is no exception. Let me quote what President Musharaf wrote who coincidently was also commander in chief and army ruler (so I think he also represents the military, the same military who is alleged to commit crimes), (not just verbal) while he was representing Pakistani state:
"Your brothers and sisters in Pakistan share the pain of the events in 1971," he wrote. "The excesses committed during the unfortunate period are regretted. Let us bury the past in the spirit of magnanimity. Let not the light of the future be dimmed." 

We do know we were not the most innocent side, and we simply demand that like Pakistan came clean, Bangladesh should also come clean and show regret that it took outside help, did similar crimes against Biharis and was also not that different than what we did. 
Always playing victim cards and despite us clearly regretting our actions of 1971, you people keep crying like a ...


The Ronin said:


> As a Pakistani, I felt remorse, guilt and shame every time I walked into the corridors of Dhaka University.


I also feel shame of having him as a fellow Pakistani. But then, we all have our pov and he has evey right to express himself and he did make many valid points.
And btw, is becoming a vessal and a satellite state of India, a way to punish Pakistan for its past crimes? Are you happy that you are submissive to Pakistan's enemy?

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## The Ronin

It is a misconception that Pakistan targeted intellectuals after their fall was imminent; it was an organised, coordinated effort from the beginning to list, kidnap and kill intellectuals. The final mass-killing on December 14 just proved that it was not a strategy related to winning or losing but one born from hatred of Bangalis.

On March 28, 1971, Archer Blood's (US Consul-General, Dhaka) cable “Selective Genocide” points out the first cases of selective killing of intellectuals. He reported: “Among those marked for extinction ….. are student leaders and university faculties… we have report that Fazlur Rahman, head of applied-physics department, Professor Dev, head of philosophy department and a Hindu, M. Abedin head of department of history have been killed. Razzak (Razzaq) of political science department is rumoured dead.” On March 30, Blood's cable “Killings at University” reported: “Question of whether university professors subject of pre-planned purge, still unanswered. They (professors) believed they are subject to elimination.” These messages prove that the US suspected from the start that the intellectuals were specifically targeted.

US authorities met the top martial law administrators in Dhaka for clarification about intellectual killing and reported: “We specifically referred to recent arrests of Dacca University professors in conversation with Major-General Farman Ali (principal staff officer to Governor Malik) and Major-General Rahim (deputy-martial law administrator for East-Pakistan) in Dacca September 13.” 

Interestingly, the US representatives sought assurance from the very persons who masterminded the killing of the intellectuals. The US officials were either too naïve or too clever, showing the world that they were concerned. The US government, knowing everything, pretended to be assured by Rao Farman Ali. The Pakistan army took this as a green signal and continued killing intellectuals, with renewed vigour. 

In this massacre, the Pakistan army was supported by some Bangali quislings. They formed al-Badr, a radical militia group under the direct supervision and control of Rao Farman Ali, for the sole purpose of executing the operation of killing the intellectuals.

With Pakistan's defeat imminent, these elements made a final effort to kill as many intellectuals as possible and, on December 14, 1971, they abducted and killed over 200 prominent intellectuals.

This kind of organised effort couldn't have taken place without prior planning and coordination. Someone had to decide who was to be killed, when and how. It was known that Rao Farman Ali made a list of intellectuals to be killed. The existence of the list was confirmed by Altaf Gauhar, a leading Pakistani journalist and former bureaucrat working in Bangladesh during 1971. Gauhar recalled an incident of 1971. A friend of Gauhar told him about a hit list, drawn up to eliminate certain Bangalis. One of that friend's relatives was on the list and he requested Gauhar to save him. Gauhar met Rao Farman Ali through a mutual friend. In Gauhar's words, “Farman brought a diary out of his drawer and crossed the name out. The name was of Sanaul Huq, who was spared.” Pages of this very diary with lists of intellectuals were recovered from the debris of Rao Farman's office, the then Governor's House, which was bombed by Indian Air Force on December 14.

One page contained a list of university teachers with addresses, with tick marks besides some of the names like “M. Haider Chy. Bangali” or “Saduddin-Sociology, 16-D, UQ” (university quarter). It is up to the readers to find out the reality of this page, and the meaning of the marks, bearing in mind that the last entry was most probably on December 13.

Later, Rao Farman Ali admitted the list's existence but denied that it was of people to be killed. He, like Hitler and all other fanatic racial purists, believed that all races other than his own were inferior.

In his book The Betrayal of East Pakistan, Niazi described Rao Farman Ali as a conspirator and swindler. Niazi pointed out that Rao Farman Ali requested him to send him back to Pakistan: “He (Farman) told me that Mukti-Bahini would kill him for his alleged massacre of the Bangalis and intellectuals on the night of December 14. It was a pathetic sight to see him pale and almost on the verge of a breakdown.”

Brig A.R. Siddiqui, in charge of Pakistan army's public relation affairs in 1971, said in recent interviews about Farman's role in the massacre of intellectuals: “I guess one to be the masterminds (of the intellectuals' massacre)….He (Farman) was the major-general in charge of civil administration. As such nothing would happen which he would not know. He must be aware of the act…He (Farman) was very much inside the killing plot, if not the lone mastermind….. I never liked him, He always wore a mask.”

Rao Farman Ali denied his involvement in the massacre and placed the blame on General Jamshed (controller of Razakars). Rao Farman Ali directed much more specialised al-Badr. Farman wrote on his memoir that, on December 9, Jamshed informed him that they were considering arresting certain people. Farman maintains he advised against it.

And that raises the question whether Rao Farman Ali was the lone mastermind or there was a group at the top level. Pakistan still denies any planned killing of intellectuals. Farman never faced any court regarding this issue. He died in 2004, a man free of any guilt or remorse for what he did in 1971.






Rao Farman Ali's master plan


A list of DU teachers, marked for death. A page of the infamous diary of Major General Rao Farman Ali, found in the Governor's House's wreckage. The ones with a tick mark on their name were either already killed or on the way to be killed. UQ means University Quarters and “30-E” means the...




www.thedailystar.net

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## Sine Nomine

The Ronin said:


> Rao Farman Ali's master plan
> 
> 
> A list of DU teachers, marked for death. A page of the infamous diary of Major General Rao Farman Ali, found in the Governor's House's wreckage. The ones with a tick mark on their name were either already killed or on the way to be killed. UQ means University Quarters and “30-E” means the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedailystar.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 696515


Use your brain,why on Earth a Gen would write name of these people with his own hands when everyone knows a Gen has staff at disposal to do jobs on top of that Why write on diary when you can have a faculty list?

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## Sheikh Rauf

*Tomorrow is Black Day 16 DEC 2014 APS*

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## Apprentice

The Ronin said:


> View attachment 696515
> 
> 
> It is a misconception that Pakistan targeted intellectuals after their fall was imminent; it was an organised, coordinated effort from the beginning to list, kidnap and kill intellectuals. The final mass-killing on December 14 just proved that it was not a strategy related to winning or losing but one born from hatred of Bangalis.
> 
> On March 28, 1971, Archer Blood's (US Consul-General, Dhaka) cable “Selective Genocide” points out the first cases of selective killing of intellectuals. He reported: “Among those marked for extinction ….. are student leaders and university faculties… we have report that Fazlur Rahman, head of applied-physics department, Professor Dev, head of philosophy department and a Hindu, M. Abedin head of department of history have been killed. Razzak (Razzaq) of political science department is rumoured dead.” On March 30, Blood's cable “Killings at University” reported: “Question of whether university professors subject of pre-planned purge, still unanswered. They (professors) believed they are subject to elimination.” These messages prove that the US suspected from the start that the intellectuals were specifically targeted.
> 
> US authorities met the top martial law administrators in Dhaka for clarification about intellectual killing and reported: “We specifically referred to recent arrests of Dacca University professors in conversation with Major-General Farman Ali (principal staff officer to Governor Malik) and Major-General Rahim (deputy-martial law administrator for East-Pakistan) in Dacca September 13.”
> 
> Interestingly, the US representatives sought assurance from the very persons who masterminded the killing of the intellectuals. The US officials were either too naïve or too clever, showing the world that they were concerned. The US government, knowing everything, pretended to be assured by Rao Farman Ali. The Pakistan army took this as a green signal and continued killing intellectuals, with renewed vigour.
> 
> In this massacre, the Pakistan army was supported by some Bangali quislings. They formed al-Badr, a radical militia group under the direct supervision and control of Rao Farman Ali, for the sole purpose of executing the operation of killing the intellectuals.
> 
> With Pakistan's defeat imminent, these elements made a final effort to kill as many intellectuals as possible and, on December 14, 1971, they abducted and killed over 200 prominent intellectuals.
> 
> This kind of organised effort couldn't have taken place without prior planning and coordination. Someone had to decide who was to be killed, when and how. It was known that Rao Farman Ali made a list of intellectuals to be killed. The existence of the list was confirmed by Altaf Gauhar, a leading Pakistani journalist and former bureaucrat working in Bangladesh during 1971. Gauhar recalled an incident of 1971. A friend of Gauhar told him about a hit list, drawn up to eliminate certain Bangalis. One of that friend's relatives was on the list and he requested Gauhar to save him. Gauhar met Rao Farman Ali through a mutual friend. In Gauhar's words, “Farman brought a diary out of his drawer and crossed the name out. The name was of Sanaul Huq, who was spared.” Pages of this very diary with lists of intellectuals were recovered from the debris of Rao Farman's office, the then Governor's House, which was bombed by Indian Air Force on December 14.
> 
> One page contained a list of university teachers with addresses, with tick marks besides some of the names like “M. Haider Chy. Bangali” or “Saduddin-Sociology, 16-D, UQ” (university quarter). It is up to the readers to find out the reality of this page, and the meaning of the marks, bearing in mind that the last entry was most probably on December 13.
> 
> Later, Rao Farman Ali admitted the list's existence but denied that it was of people to be killed. He, like Hitler and all other fanatic racial purists, believed that all races other than his own were inferior.
> 
> In his book The Betrayal of East Pakistan, Niazi described Rao Farman Ali as a conspirator and swindler. Niazi pointed out that Rao Farman Ali requested him to send him back to Pakistan: “He (Farman) told me that Mukti-Bahini would kill him for his alleged massacre of the Bangalis and intellectuals on the night of December 14. It was a pathetic sight to see him pale and almost on the verge of a breakdown.”
> 
> Brig A.R. Siddiqui, in charge of Pakistan army's public relation affairs in 1971, said in recent interviews about Farman's role in the massacre of intellectuals: “I guess one to be the masterminds (of the intellectuals' massacre)….He (Farman) was the major-general in charge of civil administration. As such nothing would happen which he would not know. He must be aware of the act…He (Farman) was very much inside the killing plot, if not the lone mastermind….. I never liked him, He always wore a mask.”
> 
> Rao Farman Ali denied his involvement in the massacre and placed the blame on General Jamshed (controller of Razakars). Rao Farman Ali directed much more specialised al-Badr. Farman wrote on his memoir that, on December 9, Jamshed informed him that they were considering arresting certain people. Farman maintains he advised against it.
> 
> And that raises the question whether Rao Farman Ali was the lone mastermind or there was a group at the top level. Pakistan still denies any planned killing of intellectuals. Farman never faced any court regarding this issue. He died in 2004, a man free of any guilt or remorse for what he did in 1971.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rao Farman Ali's master plan
> 
> 
> A list of DU teachers, marked for death. A page of the infamous diary of Major General Rao Farman Ali, found in the Governor's House's wreckage. The ones with a tick mark on their name were either already killed or on the way to be killed. UQ means University Quarters and “30-E” means the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedailystar.net



Bengali nationalists also carried out killings of pro-Pakistan Bengali intellectuals.

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## Destranator

Apprentice said:


> Bengali nationalists also carried out *killings of pro-Pakistan Bengali intellectuals.*



And we are sorry for the murders of all 3 of them.


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## nahtanbob

BHarwana said:


> How was power sharing not happening? will you please elaborate on that as well? Just to inform you I will counter argument you on this in next few post so that we can have both point of views.



Pakistan could have stay united with Bangladesh. 
1. You need India's help with river water sharing on Bangladesh. But it would mean less hostile relationship with India. It might mean lower profile on Kashmir. 
2. When you have a large poor population it would mean more left of center political stances on religion and economics. To this day Pakistani elite is determined to be right wing and reactionary on such matters
3. It means compromise on matters like language. Not sure how pragmatic Pakistani elite is


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## Sheikh Rauf

Sheikh Rauf said:


> *Tomorrow is Black Day 16 DEC 2014 APS*


I will see when u have black day in you country...be patience


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## The Ronin

*Revisiting 1971: The crow is white, Bengal is Pakistan*

*Most Pakistanis feel uneasy coming to terms with the reality that is Bangladesh. They hide themselves behind a shoddy narrative of 1971, and neatly categorise the whole thing as a 'conspiracy'. It might well have been one. But who conspired against whom and when? What were the Bengalis up to? And how did they reach breaking point?

The political picture in 1947*

The areas that constituted Pakistan in 1947 were ruled by the British under different arrangements. Bengal, Punjab, Sindh and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (then 'NWFP') were provinces with elected assemblies.

Balochistan was governed by an appointed Commissioner; tribal areas by Political Agents; and a number of so-called princely states by Rajas under the paramountcy of the British Crown.

These states came in all sizes. The princely state of Amb was so tiny that it drowned in the Tarbela Dam Lake in the 1970s. The Bahawalpur state was one of the largest princely states of India and its area now forms three large districts of Punjab. The Baloch states were very thinly populated, while Punjab was quite crowded.

But every one of these entities had a standing as a 'state', however rudimentary its stage might be.

*When the 'Bengali problem' arose*

It had begun in 1947 already. The people who were handed over the reigns of the new country on August 14 were tasked with working out a system which allowed all the above-mentioned entities to coexist peacefully and prosper together.

But when they sat down to figure out this formula for an equal distribution of power, every option they considered led to the same concern: the Bengalis were more in number than all the rest put together, and under a democracy, nothing could bar them from getting a majority share in the new state.

Now that did not sit well at all with the infant country's larger, grander designs of spearheading a new Islamic renaissance and hoisting its flag on every other building in South Asia.

The dark-skinned Bengalis, who shared their language and culture with their Hindu compatriots did not cut a figure to fit the coveted slot. This glorious feat could only be performed by the blue-blooded Muslim elite that had migrated from India, with a few others playing second fiddle and the rest serving as foot soldiers.

So, that was the first crossroad that our nation found itself at; that if the simple democratic path was to be taken, we would miss the golden opportunity to revive all of our lost glories (by losing the government to a Bengali majority). And if we stuck to this cherished goal, we would need to get around democracy and find some undemocratic solution to 'the Bengal problem'. At the end, it didn't turn out to be very difficult.

*First draft — how an impasse was created*

The ruling elite unearthed a trove of edicts, historical references and quotable quotes that allowed them to bend the rules to serve 'the larger national interest' and avoid rigidly following democracy, which was anyway a 'Western concept quite unsuitable to our kind of polity'.

One of our visionaries had forewarned us about the pitfalls of democracy, which counted everyone as one without distinguishing them on the basis of their piety.

When the first draft of the Constitution (Interim Report of the Basic Principles Committee) was presented to the Constituent Assembly in September 1950, it provided for two elected houses: the House of Units where all provinces would have equal representation (as provinces have in the Senate these days) and the House of People.

The Committee did not forward any suggestion about how the provinces would be represented in the latter House, whose members were supposed to be directly elected by the people. The Bengalis, who were being offered half the seats (when population-wise, their proportionate share was more than that), were not ready to surrender their right.

Thus evolved the impasse.

*Second draft — Nazimuddin's partial 'Principle of Parity'*

Prime Minister Nazimuddin was, however, able to make clear suggestions. When he presented the second draft in the Assembly, it provided for 120 seats in the House of Units and 400 in House of People.

Half of both of these were given to Bengal in the east and the other half was divided among the nine units of western Pakistan (the provinces of Punjab, Sindh, NWFP, what is now Fata, Bahawalpur, Balochistan, Balochistan States, Khairpur State and Federal Capital), roughly according to their share in population. But this principle — share proportionate to population — was not adopted in the division of seats between east and west Pakistan.

This blatant imparity and injustice was given the name, 'Principle of Parity'.

This is how the narrative went: Pakistan comprises of two wings, East Pakistan, consisting of East Bengal and West Pakistan, constituted by nine units; and the two wings must get equal representation.

The Bengalis did not accept this and the draft was rejected.

*Third draft — Bogra's mathematical masterstroke*

The next Prime Minister, Mohammad Ali Bogra, came up with an uber-complex equation to resolve the impasse.

In October 1954, he presented the third draft, which clubbed the nine units of western Pakistan into four groups and gave them and the fifth unit — Bengal — equal seats (10 each) in the House of Units. The 300 seats of the House of People were roughly accorded to each unit according to their share in the population.

In this way, East Bengal got a majority in the House of People (with 165 out of 300 seats), but not in the House of Units where it had just 10 of the 50 seats.

All the laws had to be approved by both the Houses and in a joint sitting (of 350 members). East Pakistan (with 165+10=175 seats) was in parity with the West. In a way, it offered a win-win solution to both the Bengali nationalists and the Pakistani establishment.

But a solution was not what the ruling elite was looking for. The draft was approved by the Constituent Assembly and a team was tasked to write the constitution. Governor General Ghulam Muhammad, however, dismissed the government and dissolved the Assembly the same month.

*The One-Unit Scheme*

The undemocratic step was sanctioned by the judiciary that innovated and employed the 'Law of Necessity' for the first time.

It took the Governor General a year to put in place the second Constituent Assembly. Unlike the first one, it followed the 'Principle of Parity', that is, only half of the members of the second Constituent Assembly (40 out of 80) were taken from East Bengal, while in the first one they had 44 of 69 seats.

The first important thing that the new Constituent Assembly did was to 'unify' the nine units of the western wing into one province — the amalgam was called West Pakistan, and the initiative the One-Unit scheme. That gave the parity narrative some legal and moral grounds as the country now comprised of two provinces being treated equally, instead of 10 units with one being less equal than the other nine.

The ruling elite — or 'the establishment' as we know it now — made it known, loud and clear, that it would not accept anything more than 'parity' for East Bengal. There is no surprise then, that the Constitution that this Assembly finally passed in March 1956 provided for one elected House —National Assembly — comprising of 300 members elected directly by the people with half coming from East Pakistan and half from the West.

Bengalis held faith in democracy and lost in Pakistan.

The first Assembly could not dare hold general elections. Everybody knew that given the vast disagreements, elections under the prescribed system would be disruptive. General Ayub thought that the blatant use of force was a viable alternative and jumped in. He was wrong. He held the country together at gun point.

A decade later, when he finally had to withdraw the gun, General Yahya agreed to hold direct elections under adult franchise to a National Assembly that would formulate the country's constitution. His Legal Framework Order (since there was no constitution in place at that time) conceived a 300 member National Assembly with 162 elected from East Bengal, accepting the old Bengali demand. But perhaps, it was already too late.

*Revisiting 1971: Bengali, Indian, Muslim, Poor, Farmer*

It is but natural that every one of us has multiple identities. The many faces that we wear can peacefully coexist, complement and/or conflict with each other. Their interplay is complex and the politics that they generate is even more complicated, knotty and intriguing.

In other words, one can very easily be a Bengali Muslim or a Punjabi Muslim or a Muslim farmer or a Hindu farmer or a Punjabi farmer or a Bengali farmer. Political pursuits and aspirations of each of these groups converge at certain points and diverge at others. The success of a political party or a leader depends upon its ability to cut across a multitude of political interests and ambitions and rally them for a common cause.

If you wish to see this now-it-converges and now-it-diverges phenomenon walk in our history, you need to meet Mr Abu Kasim Fazalul Haq. He was Prime Minister of the undivided Bengal when Quaid-e-Azam chose him to present the Pakistan Resolution at the general meeting of the All India Muslim League (AIML) held on 23 March 1940.

Muslim politicians from Punjab, Sindh, Pakhtunkhwa, Balochistan and other parts of India who had gathered in Lahore for this meeting, supported the Resolution and it became Muslim League’s cause célèbre. Only a few of these leaders were actually elected from the platform of AIML in the 1936 elections, but they made common cause with the Muslim League.

Fazalul Haq or _Sher-e-Bangla_ (as he was popularly known as), was heading a coalition government in undivided Bengal at that time. His 'Krishak Praja Party' (literally meaning Agricultural People’s Party) had emerged as the third largest party of the state in 1936 elections. The top position was secured by Indian National Congress and the second by Muslim League. None had a simple majority and only a coalition government was possible.

Haq did not like the increasingly communal politics of the Muslim League and had campaigned against this party of Muslim jagirdars and nawabs during elections. He wanted to build on Bengali identity and thought that the Congress, (which was, like him, against communalism) would be his natural ally.

But Congress probably found Haq’s farmer-centred politics too ‘red’ to accommodate. Some leaders of the Praja Party were suspected to be communists. Bengali farmers identified zamindars and financiers of agriculture, most of whom happened to be Hindus, as their main adversaries, while Congress found many ardent supporters in the same privileged Hindu class. Moreover, Congress stressed more on the Indian-ness than on being Bengali, Punjabi etc.

So, Congress refused to join hands with Haq and pushed him towards Muslim League, which was actually waiting for this opportunity.

A coalition cabinet was sworn in, but in a week's time, a section of the Praja Party joined Congress to oppose some of their own party’s budgetary measures. On the other hand, the more ‘red’ of Praja’s members thought that the party was reneging on its election agenda. Diverse ambitions gave rise to factionalism, which weakened the Praja party and Haq’s position as the leader of the coalition. He became more and more dependent on Muslim League, that was hell bent on dividing the Bengali polity along the religious lines.

Sometime after the Pakistan Resolution, Haq started opposing the two-nation theory and openly campaigned against it. That, however, doesn’t mean that he did not empathise with the Muslims’ quest for identity in the Indian political theatre.

Haq, who was three years older to Quaid-e-Azam, was the secretary of the Bengal Provincial Muslim League from 1913 to 1916, and the President of the All India Muslim League from 1916 to 1921. He was an active member of the Khilafat Movement of the early 1920s. In 1917, Haq also served as the Joint Secretary of Congress. (It wasn’t considered a sin to be a member of both the Muslim League and the Congress till then.)

But like most Muslim politicians of that time, he saw the question of Muslim identity in the broader context of India nationalism. Over the years, many Muslim leaders took their quest to the next stage – a separate homeland for Indian Muslims, but Haq failed to reconcile with it.

Muslim League was able to project ‘the Muslim homeland’ as the panacea for all ills, and the idea clicked. Haq’s Praja Party got a severe drubbing in the 1946 elections, winning just four seats of which two were his own.

Muslim League, on the other hand, had its dream come true with 110 of 117 Muslim reserved seats in Bengal. Hussain Shaheed Suharwardee of the Muslim League formed the government in the state. Hindu-Muslim riots broke out in August 1946, with blood flowing everywhere the communal lines turned into borders. Haq joined Muslim League in September 1946 and moved to Dhaka after Partition. He started serving the East Pakistan government as Advocate General.

Haq failed in coalescing his various aspirations into the politics of his liking and was outmanoeuvred and overrun by others. Muslim League succeeded in shaping the political discourse along its preferred religious lines and achieved its main goal. But the party misunderstood the Bengali support. Bengalis did not think that being Muslim required them to stop being Bengali or being Pakistani compelled them to quit being Hindu.

A few months after the Independence, Bengali students protested against Urdu being declared as the only national language and demanded that their language should also be given the same status. Haq joined the protest and was injured when it was baton-charged by the police.

The Constituent Assembly found itself in a perpetual logjam. Bengalis were not asking all else to bow before them. They simply demanded their democratic rights – their language, culture shall be respected; their resources shall belong to them; they should get from the federal pool a share proportionate to their population.

The blue-blooded Muslim League thought that it could continue to gamble on the back of the wild card of religion. So if you demanded rights for your homeland, you were accused of narrow provincialism that was against the lofty pan-Islamist ideals, if you dared to ask for your share in resources, you were blamed for obstructing the renaissance of Islam and if you wanted respect for your language, you were definitely a traitor and an Indian stooge.

Bengal was no banana state, neither was Muslim League an imperial power. So Bengalis made up their minds to send a shut up call.

The rulers in Karachi, the then capital, probably knew what was around the corner. The tenure of the assemblies of Punjab, Sindh, Pakhtunkhwa and Bengal elected in 1946, was to expire in 1951. The Constituent Assembly had failed to build a consensus on even the broad features of the new State by that time and in the absence of a new design, the old state assemblies had to continue.

Elections to the Punjab Assembly were held in March 1951 and to the Pakhtunkhwa Assembly, then NWFP, in the latter part of that year. Sindh came under the Governor’s rule in 1951 before elections to its assembly in 1953.

Muslim League managed to win in all of these elections. It was also the ruling party in East Bengal since 1946. The writing on the wall was quite clear and all that the League could do was to delay the next elections, as much as possible.





The cow (the people) refuse any more milk to the president telling him "Oh go away, you don't fool me any more ... that stuffed thing (labeled: Muslim League today) is not my calf!"—Dawn, Karachi, 18 March 1954

Finally, elections to the East Bengal Assembly were announced for March 1954. A large number of disgruntled Bengali Muslim Leaguers had parted ways with their party as early as 1949. Hussain Shaheed Suhrawardy, Molana Bhashani, Sheikh Mujibur Rehman and many others formed All Pakistan Awami Muslim League.

Fazalul Haq who had supported the Bengali language movement all along, formed the Sramik Krishak Party (literally meaning Workers’- Farmers’ Party) in 1953. The two decided to jointly contest against the Muslim League in the 1954 elections and chose Fazalul Haq to lead the alliance known as 'Jugtu Front'.

Jugtu Front presented a 21-point program that promised a national language status for Bengali, rejection of the draft Constitution that had refused to give Bengalis share in parliamentary seats proportionate to their population, dissolution of the Constituent Assembly and its replacement with a new directly elected assembly mandated to draft a constitution for the country.

Muslim League frantically searched for a magic wand. It sent Fatimah Jinnah to East Bengal on a whirlwind election campaign. Bengalis had already had enough. She could do no miracle. In the 309-member house there were 237 Muslim seats, of which Muslim League could win a paltry 10, independents three, Khilafat-e-Rabbani one and the United Front 223! There could be no stronger verdict than this.

The Central government in Karachi refused to replace the Constituent Assembly with the one directly elected by the people, as demanded by the United Front and went about framing and approving a Constitution which was in no way acceptable to Bengalis.

The so-called establishment of Pakistan knew that Bengalis won’t budge; they delayed the next election for 16 long years and when these were finally held in 1970, Awami League won 160 of 162 seats allocated to East Bengal in the house of 300. The verdict again was loud and clear and yet again, the Bengalis found no one listening to them in the federal capital.

They must have realised that they can wake up someone who is asleep but not the one who is pretending to be sleeping.

*Revisiting 1971: What if they elected traitors?*

Pakistan started counting traitors before it actually became a nation. There has hardly been a time since its birth that it did not find itself on a crossroad, crying foul at the top of its voice.

Those in power had very strong ideas about what kind of state and government they wanted and demanded an electoral democracy only to legitimise their plans.

Poor democracy, however, lacked the capacity to oblige, despite all the sincere efforts made by its administrators. They wanted it to come back again and again to square-one, but democracy would insist on producing more numbers than required. It can't be by coincidence that all of Pakistan's traitor-designates or traitor-suspects were voted feverishly by the people.

Let me illustrate my point with an example:

Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan moved the Objectives Resolution in the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan on March 7, 1949. The Assembly gathered in Karachi for its fifth session in its 20-months life. It was the first day of proceedings, starting at 4 o'clock in the afternoon when Liaquat Ali Khan moved the resolution and made a lengthy speech. Immediately afterwards, opposition leaders – Hindus from East Bengal – rose and raised many objections apprehending that the Prime Minister wanted to bulldoze through the Resolution.

Quoting from the debate (official document):

_Mr Sris Chandra Chattopadhyaya: ... We need time to study it, in consultation with our friends in East Bengal and for the sake of clarification. In fact when we left East Bengal this time we had no idea that such a Resolution was to be brought forward. There was no indication of it in the Agenda papers circulated. The budgetary session is almost at an end. The attendance in the House is very thin. Many members of my province - East Bengal - the Prime Minister (of Bengal) who might very well give us advice and guidance have left already. I presume they had no idea about it. There are some Members who did not attend the session at all. Surely they would have attended this meeting to take part in the discussion of such a Resolution if proper notice was given to them. Practically no notice was given to them. I, therefore, venture to suggest that the consideration of an important matter like this should be postponed and the Resolution be circulated for eliciting public opinion, till the next session or a special session may be convened for this purpose ...

The Honourable Mr Liaqat Ali Khan: Sir, I am afraid there is a lot of contradiction in the arguments that have been advanced by the Honourable Members who have moved the motion for circulation of this Resolution. One of the chief arguments that has been advanced is that the House is very thin as most of the members have left and are not here and that they have not had enough time. As far as the Members of my Honourable friend's party are concerned, every single of them is present in the House except one, who unfortunately is not well but is present in Karachi. So far as absence of Members is concerned I do not think that this is really very valid ground.

Mr Sris Chandra Chattopadhyaya: There is no party of mine. I will deal with every one.

The Honourable Mr Liaqat Ali Khan: When I said 'party' I meant the non-Muslim Members of the House, because after all if anything can be said about this Resolution, if any objection can be raised, it can only be from the non-Muslim Members of this House, and I said just now, every one of them is present here ..._

So the prime minister did not consider it important for the Muslim members to be present in the Assembly at the time when he tabled the most important constitutional instrument of our history. In fact, he did not want them to forward any arguments, or, God forbid, make any objection. They were expected to nod their heads like brides do, from underneath the pile of exotic fabric that is piled up on them, when approached by the _nikah khwan_. No good Muslim should even think about opposing anything (including rule) being done in the name of Islam.

But good Muslims were in short supply in East Bengal as they kept demanding their rights. They wanted a constitution drafted by an assembly that is elected directly by the people. They wanted Pakistan to be a federation that treats all of its units with equality and justice. They wanted maximum provincial autonomy and effective safeguards against economic exploitation. They demanded respect for their language and culture.

All of this was not acceptable to what we have known as our 'establishment'. But none of it could be suppressed because whenever democracy was allowed to prevail, people enthusiastically supported all of the Bengali demands. So, for around a quarter of a century, they tried to remodel democracy to suit them.

Nothing worked. By 1969, the civil-military establishment came to this depressing conclusion that they have to accept at least some of the Bengali demands.

So, general elections were announced. The principle of one-person-one-vote was accepted and people were to directly elect a Constituent Assembly (as opposed to the indirect elections introduced by General Ayub). East Bengal was given representation in the assembly proportionate to its population. So it had 162 of the 300 general seats and seven of 13 reserved for women. Polling was held in December 1970, and the results were as following:






Awami League led by Sheikh Mujibur Rehman swept all the East Bengal seats except two. It definitely was the strongest possible verdict. It gave the Awami League agenda legitimacy of the highest order. Its leaders stood victorious and vindicated. They had passed the toughest of the tests with flying colors.

The elected Assembly was supposed to draft a constitution for the country within 120 days of its first meeting. General Yahya announced to hold the first meeting of the Assembly on March 3, 1971 and Awami League's parliamentary committee announced the salient features of the constitution on February 27.

Since the party had simple majority in the House, there was no way it could be stopped from adopting the basic principles in its inaugural meeting. This would have effectively ended the rule of the Pakistani establishment over at least East Bengal, if not the entire country.

Yahya postponed the inaugural session and engaged in talks with Mujib and Bhutto, which remained fruitless. The General soon admitted his defeat on the democratic front and challenged Bengalis on the other.

Pakistan army declared war on East Pakistan on the night of March 25.

They left behind tremendous evidence of their hatred for free-thinking people, who were fearless while giving verdicts as well. Bengalis swear that these people were in millions. I will share only one with you here.

Within days, the military campaign changed into a full-scale civil war as Bengalis were ready for the worst. The assembly elected in December 1970 did not meet. Pakistan banned the Awami League and disqualified 76 of its 160 elected members for being traitors. So, the Awami League was cut down to size with its strength reduced from the commanding 167 to just 84 in the House of 313. That was at par with PPP, which had 81 in Punjab and Sindh. A divided and hung parliament is always in 'the best national interest'.

The General was, however, living in a fool's paradise. He amended his LFO in September 1971 to facilitate the Election Commission to organise by-elections on these 'vacated seats' of East Bengal. By that time, it was simply out of question for the government of Pakistan to perform in Bengal.

Religious parties saw an opportunity in this absurd and bleak situation. Six of them, led by Jamaat Islami, met and decided to field joint candidates on these seats knowing that their nominees will return uncontested as no one else considered the exercise legitimate. So on November 11, the EC found only one candidate each on 63 of these seats. All of them thus, were returned uncontested. This is how each party fared on these seats:

Jamaat Islami — 15
Pakistan Democratic Party — 12
Pakistan Muslim League — Council 7
Nizam-e-Islam — 6
Pakistan Muslim League — Convention 6
Pakistan Muslim League — Qayyum 5
Pakistan People's Party — 5

PPP initially flayed the by-elections but later found the loot sale too tempting and joined the fray. 63 seats were decided and the EC announced to hold polls on the rest of the 15 from December 7 to 20, 1971. Curtains fell on this theatre of the absurd on December 3, as war broke out on the western front as well and the EC announced postponement of by-elections.

ZA Bhutto became the President and the Chief Martial Law Administrator on December 20, four days after the Pakistan Army surrendered in Dhaka. Bhutto nullified the by-elections on December 23, depriving Jamaat Islami of its biggest ever electoral triumph.









Revisiting 1971: The crow is white, Bengal is Pakistan


The 'Bengali problem' had already arisen in 1947, when the ruling elite found it hard to digest Bengali majority.



www.dawn.com












Revisiting 1971: Bengali, Indian, Muslim, Poor, Farmer


Bengalis did not think being Muslim required them to stop being Bengali or that being Pakistan meant not being Hindu.



www.dawn.com












Revisiting 1971: What if they elected traitors?


And elect the Bengalis did. Not one, not two but a whole house full of elected traitors! Yahya could never accept that.



www.dawn.com

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## The Ronin

Massacre in Sylhet Medical college Hospital, 9th April 1971


On April 9, 1971, in defiance of all international law, the Pakistan Army brutally killed the doctors, nurses, ambulance drivers, patients and relatives of the patients on duty at the Sylhet Medical College Hospital. This phenomenon is not very common in the history of genocide. Dr. Shamsuddin...




1971archive.org

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/Guerrilla1971/posts/3043951015622312


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## Ahmet Pasha

Gora set it up that way.
They designed East and West Pakistan to fail.


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

PDF said:


> Unless he himself commited any crimes, what is he guilty of? Some 2-3 generation ago, his family might have comitted crime. They will be answerable for their actions... He is just another... what do I call him...nevermind.
> In war, wrongs do happen, Pakistani side is no exception. Let me quote what President Musharaf wrote who coincidently was also commander in chief and army ruler (so I think he also represents the military, the same military who is alleged to commit crimes), (not just verbal) while he was representing Pakistani state:
> "Your brothers and sisters in Pakistan share the pain of the events in 1971," he wrote. "The excesses committed during the unfortunate period are regretted. Let us bury the past in the spirit of magnanimity. Let not the light of the future be dimmed."
> 
> We do know we were not the most innocent side, and we simply demand that like Pakistan came clean, Bangladesh should also come clean and show regret that it took outside help, did similar crimes against Biharis and was also not that different than what we did.
> Always playing victim cards and despite us clearly regretting our actions of 1971, you people keep crying like a ...
> 
> I also feel shame of having him as a fellow Pakistani. But then, we all have our pov and he has evey right to express himself and he did make many valid points.
> And btw, is becoming a vessal and a satellite state of India, a way to punish Pakistan for its past crimes? Are you happy that you are submissive to Pakistan's enemy?


Mujib himself put a closure to '71 fiasco!!! How?

Mujib put BD inside the Soviet block. It means the USSR/India were the principal stakeholders in breaking Pak, an US ally.
Mujib established a one-party socialist rule with zero "democracy" related freedoms and no multi-party elections whatsoever! It means it was never about the Bangals' winning most seats in an election.
Mujib conducted a survey of the casualty during '71. It was found 220K Bangals died. But, a large #of them were killed by the Muktis! So, he didn't publish it, but gave a general amnesty to the pro-Pak Bangal folks. Moreover, he let the civil and military officials, who didn't revolt against Pak, to continue without any penalties whatsoever. It shows even Mujib considered it as a Civil War.
Around a million Muhajir folks were killed by the Bangals. Not to mention the rapes, arsons etc. Even the Indians got astonished at the severity of this brutality! So, in the tri-patriate meeting (India-BD-Pak) they decided to move on without focusing on the atrocities.​
Mujib killed 40K ex-Muktis without any judicial procedures for they engaged in terrorism against his regime and common folks. He employed military, including repatriated Bangal soldiers, for these ops. In fact the Bangal officers killed 10X more Muktis, on different occasions, than their Punjabi/Pashtun colleagues! What an _Ilahi Adalet_!!!​
Mujib dismissed Tajuddin, the PM of the BD exile government and the most public face of BD's "Liberation War"!! He even acknowledged the depth of the conspiracy against Pak!
Mujib invited ZAB to Dhaka, and gave him a full state honor! And, Mujib visited Lahore in return to join the OIC meeting.

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## Adonis

F-16_Falcon said:


> if they were with us than must be working for bhartis. traitors. what happened is good for pakistan and wish of allah.


Very convenient to sweep off the mistakes, blunders of the past as Allah's will or blame Bengalis...If they have been with you, your economy would have been much better....so is your literacy rate...and your status in the world.

Think why it has been Allah's will to shame us in the world, no friends, no contribution to the world, Why?....
Because it's not Allah's will, it's the idiocy of our rulers and elites....if we don't want to change....Allah will not care....


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## The Ronin

British journalist Simon Dring, a friend of Bangladesh during the country’s Liberation War in 1971, passed away in a hospital in Romania. He was 76.

‘Our friend Simon Dring died at a hospital in Romania on Friday (July 16) while undergoing treatment there,’ Simon’s friend and former president of Bangladesh Federal Union of Journalists, Monjurul Ahsan Bulbul, told New Age.

Simon left behind his partner Fiona and two young children, Ava and India.

Simon was awarded Muktijuddha Maitree Sammanana by Bangladesh government in 2012.

The veteran journalist won numerous awards in Britain and internationally.

Bangladesh’s liberation war affairs minister AKM Mozammel Haque, in a statement on Tuesday, expressed his deep shock at the death of the British journalist and condoled his bereaved family members.

‘He was the first foreign journalist who risked his life to present the real picture of Pakistani occupation army’s mass killings and barbarity on unarmed Bangalees to the world community…. His contribution during the Liberation War will always be remembered in Bangladesh,’ the minister said in his condolence message.

Simon Dring was one of the foreign journalists who risked their lives and reported on the liberation war of Bangladesh in 1971 from the field.

Simon began his career as a journalist at the age of 18 when he travelled to the Far East and joined the Bangkok World Newspaper as a feature writer. He later went on to report on the beginning of the Vietnam war, reporting for Reuters and other news organisations.

In his subsequent career, Dring reported from Bangladesh, Biafra, Eritrea and many other conflict areas while working for The Telegraph and the BBC.

Just before the Pakistan Army launched their infamous ‘Operation Searchlight’ in Dhaka on March 25, 1971, they imprisoned around 200 foreign journalists at the then Hotel Intercontinental to prevent them from witnessing the army’s atrocities all over the city.

To make sure no international journalist could gather any information or proof on the genocide they were committing on the innocent people in Dhaka, the army took these journalists from their confinement in the hotel to Dhaka Airport to send them to Karachi.

However, the then 27-year-old British reporter Simon Dring stayed behind to expose the monstrosity of the Pakistan Army. He risked his life by hiding for over 32 hours at the lobby, kitchen and rooftop of the Hotel Intercontinental.

After the curfew was lifted on March 27 he left the hotel. He roamed around Dhaka on a bakers’ van, hiding from army personnel, collecting information and evidence against the Pakistan military force of arson and mass murder at different areas of the city, including Rajarbagh Police Lines and Dhaka University.

Later, Simon somehow managed to board a flight to West Pakistan and from there, succeeded to travel to Bangkok, preserving the necessary notes he gathered from his perilous and life-threatening assignment.

From those notes, Simon Dring wrote his report ‘Tanks crush revolt in Pakistan’ (PDF file attached below), which is famously known as the first written account of the horrifying genocide and military atrocity in Bangladesh. The report was published on the front page of The Daily Telegraph on March 30, 1971.

Simon was on the plane carrying Khomeini back from Paris to Iran in 1979. He was injured several times and imprisoned in Uganda by Amin where he was threatened with execution.

He partnered with Bangladeshi counterparts in 1997 to develop, license, and build the first private, commercial terrestrial/satellite TV channel in Bangladesh — Ekushey Television (ETV) — as Joint Managing Director.

Simon helped ETV bring news and education forward as television content and established the first dedicated television news team in Bangladesh with over 50 reporters, producers, and editors.









Bangladesh’s friend British journalist Simon Dring dies


British journalist Simon Dring, a friend of Bangladesh during the country’s Liberation War in 1971, passed away in a hospital in Romania. ‘Our friend Simon...




www.newagebd.net

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## Bilal9

The extent of looting by Indian Army after 16th December 1971 is rarely discussed. Here is some discussion.






" বাংলাদেশেকে ৭১ এ অনেক দেশ সাহায্য করেছে কিন্তু লুট করে নাই, একমাত্র দেশ ভারত যেটা বাংলাদেশকে ৭১ এ সাহায্যের নামে লুট করেছিল।

ভারতীয় আর্মি ৭১ এ বাংলাদেশে এসে সিরাজগন্জে বিহারি innocent মেয়েদের রেপ করেছিল, লুট করেছিল।

ভারতীয় লুটেরা আরদালী (সৈন্য) বাহিনীর ১৯৭১ সালের মুক্তিযুদ্ধে লুটপাটের ইতিহাসঃ

১৯৭১ সালের মুক্তিযুদ্ধে বীর মুক্তি বাহিনী যখন দেশের ৯৫-৯৯ শতাংশ অঞ্চল মুক্ত করে ফেলেছিল, ঠিক তখন ৩রা ডিসেম্বর ভারতীয় আরদালী বাহিনী লুটপাট করার জন্য বাংলাদেশে প্রবেশ করে। তারা ১৬ ডিসেম্বরের পর বাংলাদেশ জুড়ে নজির বিহীন লুটপাট চালিয়েছিলো।

১. ৯৩ হাজার পাকিস্তানী সৈন্যদের ফেলে যাওয়া বিপুল পরিমাণ অস্ত্রশস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ- যার মূল্য ওই সময় ছিলো ২৭ হাজার কোটি টাকা, তার সবই ভারতীয় আরদালী বাহিনী ১৫টি বিশাল জাহাজে করে বাংলাদেশ থেকে লুট করে নিয়ে যায়। অথচ সেই অস্ত্রের মালিকানা ছিলো পুরোপুরি বাংলাদেশের।

২.শুধু তাই নয়, বাংলাদেশের শত শত মিল কারখানার যন্ত্রপাতি, ব্যাংক, স্কুল, কলেজ, বিশ্ববিদ্যাল, ঘর বাড়ির গৃহস্থালী জিনিসপত্র পর্যন্ত বাদ যায়নি লোভী ভারতীয় লুটেরাদের হাত থেকে। এসব সম্পদ ও দ্রব্যাদির তখনকার মূল্য ছিলো আনুমানিক ৯০ হাজার কোটি টাকা।

৩. শৌচাগারের বদনাগুলোও বাদ দেয়নি ভারতীয় লুটেরার দল। এছাড়াও যুদ্ধকালীন ও যুদ্ধ পরবর্তীকালীন সময়ে বিভিন্ন আন্তর্জাতিক সংস্থার প্রদত্ত বিপুল পরিমাণ অর্থ ও অন্যান্য সাহায্যও লুট করে নিয়ে যায় আমাদের পরম মিত্র (!!!) ভারত।

প্রমান -

১. বাংলাদেশে ভারতীয় আরদালীদের লুন্ঠনের ব্যাপারে আজিজুল করিম ‘হোয়াই সাচ এন্টি- ইন্ডিয়ান ফিলিংস এমং বাংলাদেশী?’ শিরোনামে এক নিবন্ধে ১৯৭৪ সালের ডিসেম্বরে প্রকাশিত ভারতীয় মাসিক ‘অনিক’-এর রিপোর্টের উদ্ধৃতি দিয়ে লিখেছেন, “ভারতীয় সৈন্যদের লুণ্ঠিত মালামালের মূল্য ছিল প্রায় ১শ’ কোটি মার্কিন ডলার।”

২. বাংলাদেশে ভারতীয় আরদালীদের লুণ্ঠনের ব্যাপারে ‘বাংলাদেশ পাস্ট এন্ড প্রেজেন্ট’ পুস্তকে সালাহউদ্দিন আহমদ লিখেছেন, “যুদ্ধ শেষ হয়ে যাবার পর ভারতীয় সৈন্যরা পার্বত্য চট্টগ্রামে অধিক সময় অবস্থান করতে থাকায় ভারত সমালোচিত হতে থাকে। অভিযোগ করা হয় যে, ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনী ট্রাক বহরে করে বাংলাদেশ থেকে বিপুল পরিমাণ অস্ত্রশস্ত্র ও সাজসরঞ্জাম সরিয়ে নিয়ে যায়। ফলে ভারত বাংলাদেশকে আত্মমর্যাদাশালী রাষ্ট্রের পরিবর্তে একটি তাঁবেদার রাষ্ট্রে পরিণত করতে চায় এমন একটি আশঙ্কা থেকে বাংলাদেশের প্রতি ভারতীয় নীতির বিরুদ্ধে উত্তেজনা ও সংশয় সৃষ্টি হয়।”

৩.মুক্তিযোদ্ধা ও লেখক জয়নাল আবেদীনের ‘র’ এন্ড বাংলাদেশ’ শিরোনামে লেখা একটি বইয়েও বাংলাদেশে ভারতীয় আরদালীদের লুন্ঠনের বর্ণনা দেয়া হয়েছে। বইটিতে তিনি লিখেছেন, “পাকিস্তানি সৈন্যদের আত্মসমর্পণের পর ভারতীয় সৈন্যদের ব্যাপক লুটতরাজ দেখতে পেয়ে ভারতের প্রকৃত চেহারা আমার কাছে নগ্নভাবে ফুটে উঠে। ভারতীয় সৈন্যরা যা কিছু দেখতে পেতো তার উপর হুমড়ি খেয়ে পড়তো এবং সেগুলো ভারতে বহন করে নিয়ে যেতো। লুটতরাজ সহজতর করার জন্য তারা আমাদের শহর, শিল্প স্থাপনা, বন্দর, সেনানিবাস, বাণিজ্যিক কেন্দ্র এমনকি আবাসিক এলাকায় কারফিউ জারি করে। তারা সিলিং ফ্যান থেকে শুরু করে সামরিক সাজসরঞ্জাম, তৈজষপত্র ও পানির টেপ পর্যন্ত উঠিয়ে নিয়ে যায়। লুণ্ঠিত মালামাল ভারতে পরিবহনের জন্য হাজার হাজার সামরিক যান ব্যবহার করা হয়।” বইটির আরেকটি অংশে তিনি লিখেছেন, “বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিযুদ্ধের মধ্য দিয়ে ভারত অর্থনৈতিক, সামরিক, কৌশলগত ও আন্তর্জাতিকভাবে ব্যাপক লাভবান হয়েছে। এ কারণে দেশটি তার নিজের স্বার্থে আমাদের মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সম্পৃক্ত হয়, আমাদের স্বার্থে নয়।” আজ এরাই গলা লম্বা করে বলে তারা নাকি বাংলাদেশকে সাহায্য না করলে দেশ স্বাধীন হতনা !!! বাংলাদেশ স্বাধীন করেছে বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিযোদ্ধারা,ভারত নয়। ৭১ এর লুণ্ঠন এর এই ধারা আজ ও বজায় রেখেছে ভারত।


"Many countries helped Bangladesh in '71 but did not loot, India is the only country that looted Bangladesh in '71 in the name of aid.

The Indian Army came to Bangladesh in 1971 and raped innocent Bihari girls in Sirajganj.

History of Indian Ardali (Army) Looters Looting in 1971 Liberation War:

When the heroic liberation forces liberated 95-99 percent of the country in the 1971 Liberation War, the Indian Ardali forces entered Bangladesh on 3rd December to loot. They carried out unprecedented looting across Bangladesh after 16 December.

1. The huge quantity of arms and ammunition left behind by 93,000 Pakistani soldiers - valued at Tk 27000 crores. But that weapon was legally owned by Bangladesh. They looted us clean.

2. Not only that, the machinery, banks, schools, colleges, universities, household items of hundreds of mills in Bangladesh were not spared from the hands of the greedy Indian looters. The value of these assets and commodities at that time was approximately 90 thousand crore rupees.

3. The Indian looters did not leave out the toilet bowls either. India, our absolute ally (!!!), also looted huge sums of money and other aid provided by various international organizations during and after the war.

Proof -
1. Azizul Karim, in an article titled 'Why Such Anti-Indian Feelings Among Bangladeshi Minds?' In an article titled,Quoting the Report of the Indian Monthly Anik published in December 1974, he mentioned that , "The value of goods looted by Indian soldiers were worth about USD 100 million. " 

2. In his book 'Bangladesh Past and Present', Salahuddin Ahmed writes about the plunder of Indian troops in Bangladesh: It is alleged that the Indian Army removed a large quantity of arms and equipment from Bangladesh by truck. As a result, the fear that India wanted to turn Bangladesh into a tyrannical state instead of a self-respecting state has created tension and suspicion against Indian policy towards Bangladesh. ”

3. A book titled 'Raw and Bangladesh' by freedom fighter and writer Joynal Abedin also describes the plunder of Indian Ardali Army in Bangladesh. In the book, he writes, "After the surrender of the Pakistani soldiers, seeing the massive looting of the Indian soldiers, the true naked face of Indians came to my notice. Indian soldiers threw themselves upon whatever they saw and carried it to India as war booty. To facilitate looting they imposed curfews in our cities, industrial establishments, ports, cantonments, commercial centers and even residential areas. They carried everything from ceiling fans to military equipment, utensils and even bathroom water faucets. Thousands of military vehicles were used to transport the looted goods to India. ” In another part of the book, he writes, “India has benefited immensely economically, militarily, strategically and internationally through the liberation war of Bangladesh. That is why that country was involved in our liberation war in its own interest, not in our interest. ” Today they are the ones who say that if they did not help Bangladesh, Bangladesh would not be independent !!! Bangladesh was liberated by the freedom fighters of Bangladesh, not India. India has maintained this trend of plunder of '71 even today by unequal trade in their favor with a massive trade deficit every year."

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## Buddhistforlife

Bilal9 said:


> The extent of looting by Indian Army after 16th December 1971 is rarely discussed. Here is some discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " বাংলাদেশেকে ৭১ এ অনেক দেশ সাহায্য করেছে কিন্তু লুট করে নাই, একমাত্র দেশ ভারত যেটা বাংলাদেশকে ৭১ এ সাহায্যের নামে লুট করেছিল।
> 
> ভারতীয় আর্মি ৭১ এ বাংলাদেশে এসে সিরাজগন্জে বিহারি innocent মেয়েদের রেপ করেছিল, লুট করেছিল।
> 
> ভারতীয় লুটেরা আরদালী (সৈন্য) বাহিনীর ১৯৭১ সালের মুক্তিযুদ্ধে লুটপাটের ইতিহাসঃ
> 
> ১৯৭১ সালের মুক্তিযুদ্ধে বীর মুক্তি বাহিনী যখন দেশের ৯৫-৯৯ শতাংশ অঞ্চল মুক্ত করে ফেলেছিল, ঠিক তখন ৩রা ডিসেম্বর ভারতীয় আরদালী বাহিনী লুটপাট করার জন্য বাংলাদেশে প্রবেশ করে। তারা ১৬ ডিসেম্বরের পর বাংলাদেশ জুড়ে নজির বিহীন লুটপাট চালিয়েছিলো।
> 
> ১. ৯৩ হাজার পাকিস্তানী সৈন্যদের ফেলে যাওয়া বিপুল পরিমাণ অস্ত্রশস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ- যার মূল্য ওই সময় ছিলো ২৭ হাজার কোটি টাকা, তার সবই ভারতীয় আরদালী বাহিনী ১৫টি বিশাল জাহাজে করে বাংলাদেশ থেকে লুট করে নিয়ে যায়। অথচ সেই অস্ত্রের মালিকানা ছিলো পুরোপুরি বাংলাদেশের।
> 
> ২.শুধু তাই নয়, বাংলাদেশের শত শত মিল কারখানার যন্ত্রপাতি, ব্যাংক, স্কুল, কলেজ, বিশ্ববিদ্যাল, ঘর বাড়ির গৃহস্থালী জিনিসপত্র পর্যন্ত বাদ যায়নি লোভী ভারতীয় লুটেরাদের হাত থেকে। এসব সম্পদ ও দ্রব্যাদির তখনকার মূল্য ছিলো আনুমানিক ৯০ হাজার কোটি টাকা।
> 
> ৩. শৌচাগারের বদনাগুলোও বাদ দেয়নি ভারতীয় লুটেরার দল। এছাড়াও যুদ্ধকালীন ও যুদ্ধ পরবর্তীকালীন সময়ে বিভিন্ন আন্তর্জাতিক সংস্থার প্রদত্ত বিপুল পরিমাণ অর্থ ও অন্যান্য সাহায্যও লুট করে নিয়ে যায় আমাদের পরম মিত্র (!!!) ভারত।
> 
> প্রমান -
> 
> ১. বাংলাদেশে ভারতীয় আরদালীদের লুন্ঠনের ব্যাপারে আজিজুল করিম ‘হোয়াই সাচ এন্টি- ইন্ডিয়ান ফিলিংস এমং বাংলাদেশী?’ শিরোনামে এক নিবন্ধে ১৯৭৪ সালের ডিসেম্বরে প্রকাশিত ভারতীয় মাসিক ‘অনিক’-এর রিপোর্টের উদ্ধৃতি দিয়ে লিখেছেন, “ভারতীয় সৈন্যদের লুণ্ঠিত মালামালের মূল্য ছিল প্রায় ১শ’ কোটি মার্কিন ডলার।”
> 
> ২. বাংলাদেশে ভারতীয় আরদালীদের লুণ্ঠনের ব্যাপারে ‘বাংলাদেশ পাস্ট এন্ড প্রেজেন্ট’ পুস্তকে সালাহউদ্দিন আহমদ লিখেছেন, “যুদ্ধ শেষ হয়ে যাবার পর ভারতীয় সৈন্যরা পার্বত্য চট্টগ্রামে অধিক সময় অবস্থান করতে থাকায় ভারত সমালোচিত হতে থাকে। অভিযোগ করা হয় যে, ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনী ট্রাক বহরে করে বাংলাদেশ থেকে বিপুল পরিমাণ অস্ত্রশস্ত্র ও সাজসরঞ্জাম সরিয়ে নিয়ে যায়। ফলে ভারত বাংলাদেশকে আত্মমর্যাদাশালী রাষ্ট্রের পরিবর্তে একটি তাঁবেদার রাষ্ট্রে পরিণত করতে চায় এমন একটি আশঙ্কা থেকে বাংলাদেশের প্রতি ভারতীয় নীতির বিরুদ্ধে উত্তেজনা ও সংশয় সৃষ্টি হয়।”
> 
> ৩.মুক্তিযোদ্ধা ও লেখক জয়নাল আবেদীনের ‘র’ এন্ড বাংলাদেশ’ শিরোনামে লেখা একটি বইয়েও বাংলাদেশে ভারতীয় আরদালীদের লুন্ঠনের বর্ণনা দেয়া হয়েছে। বইটিতে তিনি লিখেছেন, “পাকিস্তানি সৈন্যদের আত্মসমর্পণের পর ভারতীয় সৈন্যদের ব্যাপক লুটতরাজ দেখতে পেয়ে ভারতের প্রকৃত চেহারা আমার কাছে নগ্নভাবে ফুটে উঠে। ভারতীয় সৈন্যরা যা কিছু দেখতে পেতো তার উপর হুমড়ি খেয়ে পড়তো এবং সেগুলো ভারতে বহন করে নিয়ে যেতো। লুটতরাজ সহজতর করার জন্য তারা আমাদের শহর, শিল্প স্থাপনা, বন্দর, সেনানিবাস, বাণিজ্যিক কেন্দ্র এমনকি আবাসিক এলাকায় কারফিউ জারি করে। তারা সিলিং ফ্যান থেকে শুরু করে সামরিক সাজসরঞ্জাম, তৈজষপত্র ও পানির টেপ পর্যন্ত উঠিয়ে নিয়ে যায়। লুণ্ঠিত মালামাল ভারতে পরিবহনের জন্য হাজার হাজার সামরিক যান ব্যবহার করা হয়।” বইটির আরেকটি অংশে তিনি লিখেছেন, “বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিযুদ্ধের মধ্য দিয়ে ভারত অর্থনৈতিক, সামরিক, কৌশলগত ও আন্তর্জাতিকভাবে ব্যাপক লাভবান হয়েছে। এ কারণে দেশটি তার নিজের স্বার্থে আমাদের মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সম্পৃক্ত হয়, আমাদের স্বার্থে নয়।” আজ এরাই গলা লম্বা করে বলে তারা নাকি বাংলাদেশকে সাহায্য না করলে দেশ স্বাধীন হতনা !!! বাংলাদেশ স্বাধীন করেছে বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিযোদ্ধারা,ভারত নয়। ৭১ এর লুণ্ঠন এর এই ধারা আজ ও বজায় রেখেছে ভারত।
> 
> 
> "Many countries helped Bangladesh in '71 but did not loot, India is the only country that looted Bangladesh in '71 in the name of aid.
> 
> The Indian Army came to Bangladesh in 1971 and raped innocent Bihari girls in Sirajganj.
> 
> History of Indian Ardali (Army) Looters Looting in 1971 Liberation War:
> 
> When the heroic liberation forces liberated 95-99 percent of the country in the 1971 Liberation War, the Indian Ardali forces entered Bangladesh on 3rd December to loot. They carried out unprecedented looting across Bangladesh after 16 December.
> 
> 1. The huge quantity of arms and ammunition left behind by 93,000 Pakistani soldiers - valued at Tk 27000 crores. But that weapon was legally owned by Bangladesh. They looted us clean.
> 
> 2. Not only that, the machinery, banks, schools, colleges, universities, household items of hundreds of mills in Bangladesh were not spared from the hands of the greedy Indian looters. The value of these assets and commodities at that time was approximately 90 thousand crore rupees.
> 
> 3. The Indian looters did not leave out the toilet bowls either. India, our absolute ally (!!!), also looted huge sums of money and other aid provided by various international organizations during and after the war.
> 
> Proof -
> 1. Azizul Karim, in an article titled 'Why Such Anti-Indian Feelings Among Bangladeshi Minds?' In an article titled,Quoting the Report of the Indian Monthly Anik published in December 1974, he mentioned that , "The value of goods looted by Indian soldiers were worth about USD 100 million. "
> 
> 2. In his book 'Bangladesh Past and Present', Salahuddin Ahmed writes about the plunder of Indian troops in Bangladesh: It is alleged that the Indian Army removed a large quantity of arms and equipment from Bangladesh by truck. As a result, the fear that India wanted to turn Bangladesh into a tyrannical state instead of a self-respecting state has created tension and suspicion against Indian policy towards Bangladesh. ”
> 
> 3. A book titled 'Raw and Bangladesh' by freedom fighter and writer Joynal Abedin also describes the plunder of Indian Ardali Army in Bangladesh. In the book, he writes, "After the surrender of the Pakistani soldiers, seeing the massive looting of the Indian soldiers, the true naked face of Indians came to my notice. Indian soldiers threw themselves upon whatever they saw and carried it to India as war booty. To facilitate looting they imposed curfews in our cities, industrial establishments, ports, cantonments, commercial centers and even residential areas. They carried everything from ceiling fans to military equipment, utensils and even bathroom water faucets. Thousands of military vehicles were used to transport the looted goods to India. ” In another part of the book, he writes, “India has benefited immensely economically, militarily, strategically and internationally through the liberation war of Bangladesh. That is why that country was involved in our liberation war in its own interest, not in our interest. ” Today they are the ones who say that if they did not help Bangladesh, Bangladesh would not be independent !!! Bangladesh was liberated by the freedom fighters of Bangladesh, not India. India has maintained this trend of plunder of '71 even today by unequal trade in their favor with a massive trade deficit every year."


So you are saying that creation of Bangladesh was a mistake and Bangladesh should merge with Pakistan?


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## SaadH

Question, what happened to all the mass graves of Bengalis that are without exception dug up and filled following massacres/genocides

Or all of that was Indian and Bengalis nationalist propaganda

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## Myth_buster_1

Just why would u create a nation geographically divided with an enemy in the middle? Specially when pakistan was not powerful enough to defend it.


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## PakFactor

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Just why would u create a nation geographically divided with an enemy in the middle? Specially when pakistan was not powerful enough to defend it.



Muslims were scattered all over geographically in British India some were even saying make a state in the middle of India for Muslims.

Honestly, the Muslim rulers should've just mass converted the Pajeets or whipped the living shit out of those that wouldn't, instead they got involved in art, architecture and music and lost their way, by getting involved in begharti that had no valve in the end. Had we done the needful we wouldn't have a street corner curry shitter to deal with.

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## PoondolotoPandalum

The Mughals should've spent less time banging their hareem, getting drunk, and partaaaaaying like only the Mughals know how to, and more time investing in education, building universities, observatories etc. Not all Muslim rulers of the subcontinent were like this. The Nawabs of Mysore and Bengal placed a much higher emphasis on education and learning, rather than taking their "ruling class" status for granted

Another mistake was outsourcing all the technical work, like state bookkeeping to the Hindus, as it was seen to be "beneath" the ruling class. So you had one group of people so much more educated than the others in technical fields. A bit like Gulf Arabs outsourcing technical jobs to ex-pats, particularly to Hindu Indians. Say what you like, but "sem2sem" Muslim brozzerhood can't compete with meritocracy. That's why they're over-represented in the fields of medicine, engineering, senior managment, whereas we (Bengali and Pak Muslim ex-pats) are over-represented in the low-skilled labor fields. Or take anywhere else for that matter.

Go to any top universities in the west. and look at the names of senior faculty members and researchers. They have many more names like Patel, Chakraborty, Mukhesh, Liu, Huang, Zhao, instead of Farooqi, Abubaker, Aladin, Aktar, etc. There are many reasons we lag behind on median income and virtually all levels of education. But I bet you, one of them is culture and mindset. Our boys/girls are more interested in buying the latest phone and driving around in an Audi/Beemer, instead of finding a higher purpose in life.

I should also mention (for fairness) that Hindu ruling classes did play a role in suppressing education for Muslims, particularly in Bengal. But that's another topic.

This is something we Muslims have to accept if we want to go anywhere. We are simply too behind on education. Not good enough. As much as I hate RSS Pajeets, comparing the absolute shittiest bunch of people in the subcontinent isn't all that interesting. Comparing their best with our best, and it doesn't look all that favorable.

Too much ego, but low on accomplishments

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## PDF

Fifty years ago, remote Dimapur airstrip gave wings to fledgling Bangladesh Air Force


Fifty years ago to this date, Indian Air force chief Air Chief Marshall P C Lal and Group Capt. A K Khandker, deputy chief of Bangladesh Armed Forces or 'Mukti Bahini' (Freedom Force) as it was popularly called, walked down the tarmac to inspect them and declare the formation of the Bangladesh...




www.deccanherald.com

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## Shahzaz ud din

*What happened when Bhutto arrived n Dhaka in July 1974?.A page from the history.*
.A quote from J.N. Dixit, the first Head of the Indian Mission (Ambassador) in Dhaka after the establishment of Bangladesh. In his book, Dixit who later became Indiaâ€™s High Commissioner to Pakistan, and his countryâ€™s Foreign Secretary and then the National Security Adviser of India, discusses the first-ever visit to Bangladesh by the Prime Minister of Pakistan (Zulfikar Ali Bhutto) in 1974, as under *(â€˜Liberation and Beyond â€“ Indo- Bangladesh Relationsâ€™, J. N. Dixit, pages 189-190, published in 1999 by Konark Publishers Pvt, Delhi):

*Quote*

_Bhutto arrived in Dhaka in July 1974. I drove to the airport through dense crowds lining both sides of the streets all the way from the Tejgaon airport to Banga Bhavan, resounding with slogans like â€˜Bangladesh-Pakistani Maitri (friendship) Zindabadâ€™ and â€˜Zulfikar Ali Bhutto Zindabad.â€™ This was a far cry from the massive anti-Bhutto demonstrations held in Dhaka in the second fortnight of March 1971. All the heads of the diplomatic missions were lined up at the tarmac. Bhutto descended from a special air force aircraft in the uniform of the supreme leader of the Peopleâ€™s Party of Pakistan. I was introduced when he reached me in the reception line. Shaking me by the hand, he turned to Mujibur Rahman and said: â€œSo, he represents the country which re-arranged the map of the sub-continent in 1971.â€ Then, addressing me, he said: â€œMay be, he (would) help us a second time in re-arranging the map by resolving the Kashmir problem which has been pending for such a long time.â€_

It was the journey back from the airport which was a politically and emotionally disturbing experience for me. As the motorcade moved out, the frenzied enthusiasm of the mass of the people lining the route reached a high pitch, with slogans and shouting in favor of Bhutto and Pakistan. The new and striking feature of this show was the many slogans very critical of the Awami League and Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. I was told later that people threw garlands of shoes at Sheikh Mujibur Rahmanâ€™s car on his journey back to the Presidentâ€™s House. My flag car was vandalized and the Indian flag was tampered with by the crowds as it slowed down near the road crossing at the InterContinental Hotel. Abusive slogans were shouted against the Indian High Commission and the Government of India._

_I have to confess that I had tears of anger in my eyes when I returned to my office and sat down to draft my telegram reporting on the arrival ceremonies and attendant political events."


*The question is, if Pakistan and its army were as monstrous as has been alleged in Bangladesh today, why was the Prime Minister of Pakistan given such a tumultuous welcome in Dhaka in 1974, just a little more than two years after the establishment of Bangladesh? If the common man in Bangladesh considered India as the benefactor of the people of Bangladesh, why was the Indian Ambassador™s official car garlanded with shoes? If Pakistan has been such a hated country in Bangladesh, why is it so that so many Bangladeshis came to the airport to welcome Zulfikar Ali Bhutto? They should have raised full-throated slogans against the Prime Minister of Pakistan, rather than shouting â€˜Bhutto Zindabad (Long live Bhutto).â€™*.

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## F-6 enthusiast

*Operation Jackpot: History and Impact on Bangladesh Liberation War*
Rorschach
February 03, 2021



*Introduction*




q The first operation launched by the naval commandos
q Launched on the night of 15 August 1971
q Simultaneous attack on the port of Mongla, Chittagong, Chandpur, Narayanganj
q The attacks impacted the tactical warfare
q Apprised the attention of international media





Map: the locations of attacks on the operation jackpot.

*Initiation of Operation Jackpot*

No separate naval wing for Mukti Bahini during April–July 1971
*08 Bengali Submariners defected from PN. (Undergoing training at Toulon in France, a submarine base)*
They were the nucleuses of naval operations in Bangladesh.





On *23 May 1971*, a secret training camp code name C2P was commissioned near the monument of Palassey on the bank of Bhagirathi.
More than 300 trainee were selected from 11 sectors over country who were good at swimming specially.
To disrupt seaborne trade and discourage international shipping from visiting Bangladesh in order to hinder the movement of troops and Military supplies.
*Preparation of operation jackpot



*
*Training was for 3months which included-*

Swimming
Survival
Use of Limped mine, demolition
Hand to Hand Combat
*Each commando carried-*
Ø A pair of fins
Ø A knife
Ø A limpet mine
Ø Swimming trunks
Ø Some had compasses
Ø 1 in 3 commandos had Sten guns and hand grenades
Ø The group leaders carried a transistor radio
*By August’ 71 Suicidal Commando Team was ready to go!



*

All the groups carried their own equipment to their targets
The groups entered in Bangladesh between 3 to 9 August
Reached their destinations by 12 August.
They used the local Mukti Bahini network of safehouses.
A pair of songs was played in All India Radio (Akashbani) at specific times to convey the intended signal for commencing the operations
The first song was played on 13 August
The second song was played on 14 August
Only Col M.A.G. Osmani and the regional commander knew about this operation to keep the secrecy .
*Chittagong Operation*


Sixty commandos divided into 3 groups of 20
One group failed to arrive on time
31 commandos mined 10 ships
Led by Submariner Abdul Wahed Chowdhury (Bir Uttam)
The operations were launched under the leadership of sector commander Major Rafiqul Islam.
Explosions sank the MV Al-Abbas, the MV Hormuz and the Orient Barge no. 6
19,000 tons of arms and ammunition sank along with them
7 other barges/ ships were also damaged or sunk.





*Chandpur operation*
q 20 commandos were sent
q 18 commandos divided into 6 groups
q Under the leadership of Badiul Alam (Bir Uttam)
q 4 ships were mined.
q 3 steamers and barges were damaged or sunk.

*Narayangonj operation*
q 20 commandos conducted the sabotage operation.
q Four ships were sunk or damaged.
q Submariner Abdur Rahman (Bir Bikram) and Shahjahan Siddique (Bir Bikram) conducted successful operation in Narayanganj and Daudkandi river ports.
q 9 commandoes were assigned to Daudkandi.
q Ferries and jetties were destroyed there.
*Mongla operation*
q 60 commandos in 5 groups of 12 members each.
q Ultimately 48 commandos mined 6 ships.
q Twelve commandos had been sent on a separate mission.
q Leader submariner Ahsanullah (Bir Pratik).
q In this ops, ships from different countries like, China , USA, Somalia etc. were destroyed.
*Impact on the liberation war*
• Naval commandos managed to sink or damage 126 ships/coasters/ferries during August- December 1971.
• Those included at least 15 Pakistani ships, 11 coasters, 7 gunboats, 11 barges, 2 tankers and 19 river crafts.
• At least 100,000 tons of shipping was sunk or crippled.
• Jetties and wharves were disabled and channels blocked.
• Pakistan Army investigation concluded that no one had imagined Mukti Bahini capable of conducting such an operation.
• The operational capability of Pakistan Navy was reduced.
• The control of the inland waterways, and of the Sea ports were removed from the hand of Pakistan Army.
• The movement and logistics of Pakistan army were largely disrupted.
• International shipping were discouraged from visiting Bangladesh and seaborne trading was stopped.
• The simultaneous attacks destroyed the myth of normalcy in East Pakistan in the international media.
*Recognition and casualties of Naval Commandos*

Over the span from 15 August to 16 December
• 8 commandos killed
• 34 injured
• 15 caught
*The ‘national hero award’ recognition:*
• 6 Bir Uttam
• 1 Bir Bikrom
• 6 Bir Protik
more about this 

Operation Jackpot - Wikipedia

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## PDF

F-6 enthusiast said:


> *Operation Jackpot: History and Impact on Bangladesh Liberation War*
> Rorschach
> February 03, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> *Introduction*
> View attachment 784040
> 
> q The first operation launched by the naval commandos
> q Launched on the night of 15 August 1971
> q Simultaneous attack on the port of Mongla, Chittagong, Chandpur, Narayanganj
> q The attacks impacted the tactical warfare
> q Apprised the attention of international media
> 
> View attachment 784041
> 
> Map: the locations of attacks on the operation jackpot.
> 
> *Initiation of Operation Jackpot*
> 
> No separate naval wing for Mukti Bahini during April–July 1971
> *08 Bengali Submariners defected from PN. (Undergoing training at Toulon in France, a submarine base)*
> They were the nucleuses of naval operations in Bangladesh.
> View attachment 784042
> 
> 
> On *23 May 1971*, a secret training camp code name C2P was commissioned near the monument of Palassey on the bank of Bhagirathi.
> More than 300 trainee were selected from 11 sectors over country who were good at swimming specially.
> To disrupt seaborne trade and discourage international shipping from visiting Bangladesh in order to hinder the movement of troops and Military supplies.
> *Preparation of operation jackpot
> View attachment 784043
> *
> *Training was for 3months which included-*
> 
> Swimming
> Survival
> Use of Limped mine, demolition
> Hand to Hand Combat
> *Each commando carried-*
> Ø A pair of fins
> Ø A knife
> Ø A limpet mine
> Ø Swimming trunks
> Ø Some had compasses
> Ø 1 in 3 commandos had Sten guns and hand grenades
> Ø The group leaders carried a transistor radio
> *By August’ 71 Suicidal Commando Team was ready to go!
> View attachment 784044
> *
> 
> All the groups carried their own equipment to their targets
> The groups entered in Bangladesh between 3 to 9 August
> Reached their destinations by 12 August.
> They used the local Mukti Bahini network of safehouses.
> A pair of songs was played in All India Radio (Akashbani) at specific times to convey the intended signal for commencing the operations
> The first song was played on 13 August
> The second song was played on 14 August
> Only Col M.A.G. Osmani and the regional commander knew about this operation to keep the secrecy .
> *Chittagong Operation*
> 
> 
> Sixty commandos divided into 3 groups of 20
> One group failed to arrive on time
> 31 commandos mined 10 ships
> Led by Submariner Abdul Wahed Chowdhury (Bir Uttam)
> The operations were launched under the leadership of sector commander Major Rafiqul Islam.
> Explosions sank the MV Al-Abbas, the MV Hormuz and the Orient Barge no. 6
> 19,000 tons of arms and ammunition sank along with them
> 7 other barges/ ships were also damaged or sunk.
> 
> View attachment 784045
> 
> *Chandpur operation*
> q 20 commandos were sent
> q 18 commandos divided into 6 groups
> q Under the leadership of Badiul Alam (Bir Uttam)
> q 4 ships were mined.
> q 3 steamers and barges were damaged or sunk.
> 
> *Narayangonj operation*
> q 20 commandos conducted the sabotage operation.
> q Four ships were sunk or damaged.
> q Submariner Abdur Rahman (Bir Bikram) and Shahjahan Siddique (Bir Bikram) conducted successful operation in Narayanganj and Daudkandi river ports.
> q 9 commandoes were assigned to Daudkandi.
> q Ferries and jetties were destroyed there.
> *Mongla operation*
> q 60 commandos in 5 groups of 12 members each.
> q Ultimately 48 commandos mined 6 ships.
> q Twelve commandos had been sent on a separate mission.
> q Leader submariner Ahsanullah (Bir Pratik).
> q In this ops, ships from different countries like, China , USA, Somalia etc. were destroyed.
> *Impact on the liberation war*
> • Naval commandos managed to sink or damage 126 ships/coasters/ferries during August- December 1971.
> • Those included at least 15 Pakistani ships, 11 coasters, 7 gunboats, 11 barges, 2 tankers and 19 river crafts.
> • At least 100,000 tons of shipping was sunk or crippled.
> • Jetties and wharves were disabled and channels blocked.
> • Pakistan Army investigation concluded that no one had imagined Mukti Bahini capable of conducting such an operation.
> • The operational capability of Pakistan Navy was reduced.
> • The control of the inland waterways, and of the Sea ports were removed from the hand of Pakistan Army.
> • The movement and logistics of Pakistan army were largely disrupted.
> • International shipping were discouraged from visiting Bangladesh and seaborne trading was stopped.
> • The simultaneous attacks destroyed the myth of normalcy in East Pakistan in the international media.
> *Recognition and casualties of Naval Commandos*
> 
> Over the span from 15 August to 16 December
> • 8 commandos killed
> • 34 injured
> • 15 caught
> *The ‘national hero award’ recognition:*
> • 6 Bir Uttam
> • 1 Bir Bikrom
> • 6 Bir Protik
> more about this
> 
> Operation Jackpot - Wikipedia



*Military Digest| Operation Jackpot: what went into launching the Mukti Bahini*



Written by Mandeep Singh Bajwa | Chandigarh |
Updated: November 1, 2021 7:52:01 am



Machine-gun training for Mukti Bahini guerrillas in a camp in India, 1971. Pic: Courtesy author)

Pakistani forces had launched a robust operation to stamp out all Bengali opposition to their plans in East Pakistan. Brutal and ruthless it soon achieved a measure of success. The defeat of the freedom movement in East Bengal was totally against Indian interests. There was also the danger of leadership of the Mukti Bahini and the resistance movement passing into the hands of ultra-Leftists. Therefore, the Indian prime minister, Indira Gandhi ordered the arming, training and tasking of the Mukti Bahini by the Army.
Accordingly, the Army Chief issued an operational instruction to the Eastern Army Commander, Lieutenant General JS Aurora on May 1, 1971. Goals were fixed as assisting the Provisional Government of Bangladesh in motivating the East Pakistani people to join the freedom movement. Secondly, the raising, training and equipping of East Pakistani volunteers for conducting guerrilla warfare inside their homeland with a view to tie down Pakistani troops, later through stepping up insurgency to damage their morale and limit their offensive capability by hitting at their logistic support. Lastly, to utilise the insurgent forces as auxiliaries to the Eastern Army on the outbreak of hostilities.

*THE REBEL ARMY*

To start with, Major General Onkar Singh Kalka – a hands-on, fighting commander – was appointed to coordinate the effort codenamed Operation Jackpot as director of operations. He set to work with the energy that he was well known for.

Using the manpower of five defecting infantry units of the Pakistan Army (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 8th Battalions of the East Bengal Regiment) a Niyomit Bahini (regular army) was raised for conducting conventional operations including nibbling at enemy-held territory. In September, three more battalions were raised. Three artillery batteries were raised for fire support using defecting Pakistani Artillery personnel and new recruits. Two were equipped with Italian Oto Melara 105mm mountain pack guns and one with 3.7-inch howitzers. The entire force was organised into three brigades.

Bengali defectors and volunteers comprising some 550 personnel were structured into a naval special force and used for underwater sabotage using limpet mines and demolition charges. Two Alouette III helicopters, an Otter light aircraft and a Dakota transport, all armed comprised the Bangladesh Air Force codenamed the Kilo Flight. Personnel of the paramilitary East Pakistan Rifles and the Police were organised into sector troops popularly known as the Mukti Fauj to operate in various regional formations within East Pakistan. These comprised nearly 10,000 troops organised into 45 companies.

A large number of civilians and students had crossed over to India to offer their services in the fight for freedom. They were trained in Indian camps and made up the Gano Bahini. By November their numbers had reached some 83,000. They were deployed in the interior for sabotage and laying ambushes.

*THE MUJIB BAHINI*
Major General SS Uban, commander of the Special Frontier Force (SFF) built up the Mujib Bahini a force extremely loyal to Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rehman and his party’s ideology. Constituted as an elite force it had its own communication set-up and was not under the control of the Bangladesh forces Commander-in-Chief Colonel Osmany or even the government-in-exile. Another small force of some 1,800 men under General Uban operated in the Chittagong Hill Tracts along with his own troops from the SFF on missions relating to harassment and disruption of lines of communications.
Eleven independent guerrilla groups were also operating inside East Pakistan equipped largely with captured Pakistani weapons. Chief among them was the Kader Bahini of Abdul Kader Siddiqui (popularly known as Tiger) with some 17,000 volunteers. Operating in Mymensingh area they carried out some daring attacks on Pakistani troops and installations. Noting their numbers and effectiveness the Indian Army provided the group with a large quantity of arms, ammunition and communications equipment. Tiger Siddiqui’s men secured the dropping zone (DZ) for the Tangail para-drop setting-up road blocks on all approaches to prevent the enemy from counter-attacking.

For command and control, the Mukti Bahini was divided into 11 geographic operational sectors further subdivided into sub-sectors. Sector N0. 10 had no territorial limits and had naval commandos used for disruption and anti-shipping tasks. A Border Security Force (BSF) Commandant and a Mukti Bahini commander had joint responsibility for each sector. The Army set up Jackpot Sectors (namely A, B, C, D, E, F (later renamed FJ) and E-1) to control these Mukti Bahini formations. Some of the best commanders like Brigadiers JC Joshi, Prem Singh, NA Salick, VrC, Shabeg Singh, MB Wadke, Sant Singh, MVC and K Lakhpat Singh (preceded by Lieutenant Colonel VN Rao, commanding 5/5 Gorkha Rifles) were posted in as sector commanders. A dedicated set of officers, JCOs and men was provided to them to serve as instructors, supply coordinators and field commanders. Among them was General S Roychowdhury (Army Chief 1994-97) then a Major. He served with Charlie Sector operating in Jessore and Khulna areas. Personnel from field formations were also used for training, logistic support and especially for fire support and as reinforcements for Mukti Bahini troops.

*IN FIRST PERSON*
I spoke to a number of Indian officers who served with the Jackpot Sectors. Lieutenant Colonel Alok Rudra, a Gunner served with Delta Sector. Colonel Pradeep Saxena and Lieutenant Colonel SS Bhatia fought with 82 Light Regiment and provided fire from their 120mm mortars to extricate the guerrillas from tricky situations on occasion. The experiences of Colonel KJS Bakshi, from the Corps of Engineers were typical. Moved from a unit in Central Command he was posted to Charlie Sector, headquartered at Krishnanagar in West Bengal.
His first task was to take over hundreds of vehicles brought over by defecting Bengalis, get them registered and issued to our own troops for their use. He notes that the civil administration was very helpful in this as in all matters. The Sector set up a training camp at Chakulya, neat Jamshedpur now in Jharkhand. Defectors from the East Pakistan Rifles and others from what the Pakistanis are pleased to call Civil Armed Forces (CAF) comprised most of the trainees.
They were destined to become sector troops. In the main camp, guerrilla training was imparted to them. As a Sapper he was called upon to train them in demolitions and the fabrication and optimum use of Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDS). The mighty River Padma flowing on the periphery of their area of responsibility (AOR) it was considered necessary to target enemy shipping to disrupt their logistics chain as well prevent their withdrawal for a last-ditch defence of the Dhaka Bowl. Mukti Bahini operatives were trained to use rocket launchers for the purpose. Bakshi remembers that the most successful method involved the use of around 400 metres of wire and a battery to remotely trigger the launcher mechanism.
Everything was in short supply and scrounging and improvisation was the order of the day. But they did it and achieved success in all their operations. Sarabjit Singh, who retired as Director-General of Police, Punjab remembers that he was asked to send all the American and European weapons (less the British ones) held by his Special Security Bureau (SSB) unit to be issued to the Mukti Bahini. Later he and his men ran a training camp for members of one of the non-Awami League political parties in Meghalaya.

In August Maneckshaw realised that he needed someone capable to task the Research and Analysis Wing about the Army’s requirements of information and analyse the same. General Onkar Kalkat was recalled from Kolkata to take over as Chief Military Intelligence Adviser to the external intelligence agency. His place as commander of Operation Jackpot was taken by the efficient armour officer, Major General BN ‘Jimmy’ Sarkar. The foundation having been laid so well by his predecessor; Sarkar lost no time in stepping up the tempo of operations.

*INITIAL SUCCESS*
An archetypal account of a Jackpot Sector’s war is that of Foxtrot Juliet Sector. Brigadier Sant Singh from Panjgrain, district Faridkot, was posted as commander of the sector dealing with operations in Mymensingh and Tangail districts, located contiguously at Tura in Meghalaya. The formation trained 15,000 freedom fighters in basic military skills including demolition, grenade throwing and mine-laying. Operations were launched to deny surface communications and disperse Pakistani forces. The functioning of offices and schools was stopped, the Deputy Commissioner’s office being disrupted by getting a young boy to throw a grenade in his court. The civil administration was totally paralysed, Phulpur sub-division was declared an area liberated of Pakistani control. The Mukti Bahini’s highly motivated and patriotic cadres dominated the area forcing the Pakistanis to break up their troops into penny-packets in order to engage them.

Brigadier Sant Singh, a redoubtable infantryman, played the leading role in the success of his sector and the Mukti Bahini units it controlled. Already decorated with the Maha Vir Chakra for his leadership while commanding 5 Sikh Light Infantry in 1965 he was awarded a bar to the MVC for his role in securing Mymensingh and Madhopur during the war itself, an episode that deserves a separate article in itself.

Operation Jackpot and the Mukti Bahini’s guerrilla war were undoubted successes and deserve all the credit they got. However, for the officers and men of Operation Jackpot there was no triumphant homecoming, no welcome arches, no reunions, no memorial, no tributes, nothing at all – all their records and correspondence were destroyed. After half a century the nation needs to remember them and their dedication, devotion to duty and selflessness, My humble salute to them.









Military Digest| Operation Jackpot: what went into launching the Mukti Bahini


Bengali defectors and volunteers comprising some 550 personnel were structured into a naval special force and used for underwater sabotage using limpet mines and demolition charges




indianexpress.com

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## Bilal9

Well - this came as a surprise....translated from Bengali as posted in the Dhaka Tribune...









৭১'র মুক্তিযুদ্ধ নিয়ে সিনেমা বানালো পাকিস্তান!


তৎকালীন পাকিস্তানী নেতৃত্ব পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে চালানো নৃশংসতা লুকাতে যে মিথ্যার বেসাতি রচনা করেছিল, তা উন্মোচন করতে চায় দেশটির নতুন প্রজন্ম




bangla.dhakatribune.com





*Pakistan made a movie about the liberation war of '71!*
Tribune desk

Published: 03:50 PM, November 4, 2021





Poster of the movie 'Khel Khel Mein'

*The new generation of the country wants to expose the lies that the then Pakistani leadership fabricated to cover up the atrocities in East Pakistan.*

Bangladesh was born in 1971 after a long and bloody nine-month war. The war is the worst atrocity in the history of the Pakistani army. Pakistan has not yet apologized to Bangladesh for its brutality. However, this time in a film made in the country, the angels of their predecessors have come up.

For the first time in Pakistan's commercial genre films, the liberation war of Bangladesh is being portrayed "positively".
The teaser of the movie titled "Khel Khel Mein" was released on October 30. The film will be released on November 19.

Looking at the teaser, one can guess that a "different" film in the 50-year history of Bangladesh's independence is going to be released in Pakistan.






The film stars Sajal Ali and Bilal Abbas Khan in the lead roles. They are both popular stars of Pakistan. The story of the film is written by Fiza Ali, Mirza and Nabil Qureshi. The film is produced by Fiza and directed by Nabil Qureshi.

According to Pakistani media The Express Tribune, this is going to be the first film to be released in the country's theaters in the aftermath of the Kovid epidemic.

According to its production company "Filmwala", the film will show two generations together. The first generation who carried out barbarism against Bangladeshis. Later, generation after generation of lies were spread about Bangladeshis in Pakistan. The present generation wants to know the real truth.






Such an idea is found in the teaser published on October 30. At the beginning there was an old man's voice of remorse. "None of us could have imagined that a spark could destroy an entire jungle," he said.

At the end of the teaser, Sajal Ali's question was raised. There he kept telling his friends, “Why aren’t we asking questions? Why has a lie been imposed on our shoulders? What actually happened at that time? Are we also stuck in the lies that the enemies want us to believe? ”






The film will show some of the students associated with the theater as the current generation. One of them is the heroine Sajal Ali. He also came to Bangladesh to know the truth of the incident. Several scenes of the film were shot in Dhaka. Most of which are captured using drones.

Meanwhile, foreign artists have to come to Bangladesh and get permission to shoot. However, no one involved in the film titled "Khel Khel Mein" has contacted the Ministry of Information, according to a report in the Bengali Tribune.

Deputy Secretary in charge of the film department of the Ministry of Information. Saiful Islam told the Bengali Tribune that he was not aware of the film.






The film will be released in Pakistan on November 19.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wah - I am waiting to see the Sanghi's reaction to this. 

I hope a majority of Bangladeshis get to see Pakistani perspective on this, viewed via YouTube or Netflix. The time has come to expose the lies Sanghis want us to believe and keep Bangladeshis and Pakistanis apart.

@Atlas, @bluesky and @Michael Corleone bhais (among others) - your comments please.

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## VikingRaider

Bilal9 said:


> Well - this came as a surprise....translated from Bengali as posted in the Dhaka Tribune...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ৭১'র মুক্তিযুদ্ধ নিয়ে সিনেমা বানালো পাকিস্তান!
> 
> 
> তৎকালীন পাকিস্তানী নেতৃত্ব পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে চালানো নৃশংসতা লুকাতে যে মিথ্যার বেসাতি রচনা করেছিল, তা উন্মোচন করতে চায় দেশটির নতুন প্রজন্ম
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bangla.dhakatribune.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Pakistan made a movie about the liberation war of '71!*
> Tribune desk
> 
> Published: 03:50 PM, November 4, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poster of the movie 'Khel Khel Mein'
> 
> *The new generation of the country wants to expose the lies that the then Pakistani leadership fabricated to cover up the atrocities in East Pakistan.*
> 
> Bangladesh was born in 1971 after a long and bloody nine-month war. The war is the worst atrocity in the history of the Pakistani army. Pakistan has not yet apologized to Bangladesh for its brutality. However, this time in a film made in the country, the angels of their predecessors have come up.
> 
> For the first time in Pakistan's commercial genre films, the liberation war of Bangladesh is being portrayed "positively".
> The teaser of the movie titled "Khel Khel Mein" was released on October 30. The film will be released on November 19.
> 
> Looking at the teaser, one can guess that a "different" film in the 50-year history of Bangladesh's independence is going to be released in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The film stars Sajal Ali and Bilal Abbas Khan in the lead roles. They are both popular stars of Pakistan. The story of the film is written by Fiza Ali, Mirza and Nabil Qureshi. The film is produced by Fiza and directed by Nabil Qureshi.
> 
> According to Pakistani media The Express Tribune, this is going to be the first film to be released in the country's theaters in the aftermath of the Kovid epidemic.
> 
> According to its production company "Filmwala", the film will show two generations together. The first generation who carried out barbarism against Bangladeshis. Later, generation after generation of lies were spread about Bangladeshis in Pakistan. The present generation wants to know the real truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such an idea is found in the teaser published on October 30. At the beginning there was an old man's voice of remorse. "None of us could have imagined that a spark could destroy an entire jungle," he said.
> 
> At the end of the teaser, Sajal Ali's question was raised. There he kept telling his friends, “Why aren’t we asking questions? Why has a lie been imposed on our shoulders? What actually happened at that time? Are we also stuck in the lies that the enemies want us to believe? ”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The film will show some of the students associated with the theater as the current generation. One of them is the heroine Sajal Ali. He also came to Bangladesh to know the truth of the incident. Several scenes of the film were shot in Dhaka. Most of which are captured using drones.
> 
> Meanwhile, foreign artists have to come to Bangladesh and get permission to shoot. However, no one involved in the film titled "Khel Khel Mein" has contacted the Ministry of Information, according to a report in the Bengali Tribune.
> 
> Deputy Secretary in charge of the film department of the Ministry of Information. Saiful Islam told the Bengali Tribune that he was not aware of the film.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The film will be released in Pakistan on November 19.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Wah - I am waiting to see the Sanghi's reaction to this.
> 
> I hope a majority of Bangladeshis get to see Pakistani perspective on this, viewed via YouTube or Netflix. The time has come to expose the lies Sanghis want us to believe and keep Bangladeshis and Pakistanis apart.
> 
> @Atlas, @bluesky and @Michael Corleone bhais (among others) - your comments please.


@Bilal9 Bhai , perhaps it's too early to post decisive comment on the movie.

There are many things to be taken to consideration first. 

Maybe its wise to let the movie release first and let people watch and then we make comments on this.

If Pakistani showbiz is free from problems that our showbiz had been facing since 1971 and onward, then surely we are going to get a good movie!

Don't pay attention to what sanghis will say! 

They believe in "সর্প হইয়া কাটো তুমি ওঝা হইয়া ঝাড়" ,so their reaction have *zero* value to me!


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## bluesky



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## FuturePAF

SaadH said:


> Question, what happened to all the mass graves of Bengalis that are without exception dug up and filled following massacres/genocides
> 
> Or all of that was Indian and Bengalis nationalist propaganda


The narrative of the massacres and mass rapes needs to be challenged, now more then ever. A truth and reconciliation would help, but probably only come when PM Hasina is out of power.

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## bluesky

FuturePAF said:


> The narrative of the massacres and mass rapes needs to be challenged, now more then ever. A truth and reconciliation would help, but probably only come when PM Hasina is out of power.


Do not please try to change these two myths. BAL has only these two things as its political capital. So, BAL will not accept anything else.

There was a time when the then PM Khaleda Zia of BNP proposed surveying throughout the country to know the names of those killed and compile the number killed.

This Hasina Bibi staged a continuous street demonstration and said no one should contest the claims made by Sk. Mujib. Begum Zia failed in her efforts.

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## FuturePAF

bluesky said:


> Do not please try to change these two myths. BAL has only these two things as its political capital. So, BAL will not accept anything else.
> 
> There was a time when the then PM Khaleda Zia of BNP proposed surveying throughout the country to know the names of those killed and compile the number killed.
> 
> This Hasina Bibi staged a continuous street demonstration and said no one should contest the claims made by Sk. Mujib. Begum Zia failed in her efforts.



It is the two legs the BAL and Hasina stand on. Once she is gone, perhaps a future government will be willing to look into it, so the documents from that era should be preserved in anticipation of that effort.

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## bluesky

FuturePAF said:


> It is the two legs the BAL and Hasina stand on. Once she is gone, perhaps a future government will be willing to look into it, so *the documents from that era* should be preserved in anticipation of that effort.


Only very few documents from that era are available. I was talking about a survey because it is the only way to know almost exactly how many people were killed. Hindus, Bengalis, Biharis and PA troops.

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## Bilal9

Javed Jabbar is all set to dismantle our idea of Pakistan-Bangladesh separation with latest documentary


Separation of East Pakistan - The Untold Story will be released online on December 16, 2021.



images.dawn.com


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## nahtanbob

Bilal9 said:


> Well - this came as a surprise....translated from Bengali as posted in the Dhaka Tribune...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ৭১'র মুক্তিযুদ্ধ নিয়ে সিনেমা বানালো পাকিস্তান!
> 
> 
> তৎকালীন পাকিস্তানী নেতৃত্ব পূর্ব পাকিস্তানে চালানো নৃশংসতা লুকাতে যে মিথ্যার বেসাতি রচনা করেছিল, তা উন্মোচন করতে চায় দেশটির নতুন প্রজন্ম
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bangla.dhakatribune.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Pakistan made a movie about the liberation war of '71!*
> Tribune desk
> 
> Published: 03:50 PM, November 4, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poster of the movie 'Khel Khel Mein'
> 
> *The new generation of the country wants to expose the lies that the then Pakistani leadership fabricated to cover up the atrocities in East Pakistan.*
> 
> Bangladesh was born in 1971 after a long and bloody nine-month war. The war is the worst atrocity in the history of the Pakistani army. Pakistan has not yet apologized to Bangladesh for its brutality. However, this time in a film made in the country, the angels of their predecessors have come up.
> 
> For the first time in Pakistan's commercial genre films, the liberation war of Bangladesh is being portrayed "positively".
> The teaser of the movie titled "Khel Khel Mein" was released on October 30. The film will be released on November 19.
> 
> Looking at the teaser, one can guess that a "different" film in the 50-year history of Bangladesh's independence is going to be released in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> The film will show some of the students associated with the theater as the current generation. One of them is the heroine Sajal Ali. He also came to Bangladesh to know the truth of the incident. Several scenes of the film were shot in Dhaka. Most of which are captured using drones.
> 
> Meanwhile, foreign artists have to come to Bangladesh and get permission to shoot. However, no one involved in the film titled "Khel Khel Mein" has contacted the Ministry of Information, according to a report in the Bengali Tribune.
> 
> Deputy Secretary in charge of the film department of the Ministry of Information. Saiful Islam told the Bengali Tribune that he was not aware of the film.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The film will be released in Pakistan on November 19.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Wah - I am waiting to see the Sanghi's reaction to this.
> 
> I hope a majority of Bangladeshis get to see Pakistani perspective on this, viewed via YouTube or Netflix. The time has come to expose the lies Sanghis want us to believe and keep Bangladeshis and Pakistanis apart.
> 
> @Atlas, @bluesky and @Michael Corleone bhais (among others) - your comments please.



Please get back when Pakistanis teach 1971 in their history books


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## itsanufy

PoondolotoPandalum said:


> The Mughals should've spent less time banging their hareem, getting drunk, and partaaaaaying like only the Mughals know how to, and more time investing in education, building universities, observatories etc. Not all Muslim rulers of the subcontinent were like this. The Nawabs of Mysore and Bengal placed a much higher emphasis on education and learning, rather than taking their "ruling class" status for granted
> 
> Another mistake was outsourcing all the technical work, like state bookkeeping to the Hindus, as it was seen to be "beneath" the ruling class. So you had one group of people so much more educated than the others in technical fields. A bit like Gulf Arabs outsourcing technical jobs to ex-pats, particularly to Hindu Indians. Say what you like, but "sem2sem" Muslim brozzerhood can't compete with meritocracy. That's why they're over-represented in the fields of medicine, engineering, senior managment, whereas we (Bengali and Pak Muslim ex-pats) are over-represented in the low-skilled labor fields. Or take anywhere else for that matter.
> 
> Go to any top universities in the west. and look at the names of senior faculty members and researchers. They have many more names like Patel, Chakraborty, Mukhesh, Liu, Huang, Zhao, instead of Farooqi, Abubaker, Aladin, Aktar, etc. There are many reasons we lag behind on median income and virtually all levels of education. But I bet you, one of them is culture and mindset. Our boys/girls are more interested in buying the latest phone and driving around in an Audi/Beemer, instead of finding a higher purpose in life.
> 
> *I should also mention (for fairness) that Hindu ruling classes did play a role in suppressing education for Muslims, particularly in Bengal. But that's another topic.*
> 
> This is something we Muslims have to accept if we want to go anywhere. We are simply too behind on education. Not good enough. As much as I hate RSS Pajeets, comparing the absolute shittiest bunch of people in the subcontinent isn't all that interesting. Comparing their best with our best, and it doesn't look all that favorable.
> 
> Too much ego, but low on accomplishments


I would like to know more on this topic.


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## MultaniGuy

Look we did not treat Bangladeshis as equals and then they wanted secession.

Case Closed!

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## Samurai_assassin

Never the same people. Too far apart.


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## Imran Khan

this creation was stupid it canot be one country .

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## VikingRaider

Imran Khan said:


> this creation was stupid it canot be one country .
> 
> View attachment 801648


Yes agree! However the main proposal was to create multiple nations in this region. 

But for hindutva scum it was not possible! So such country was formed!

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## bluesky

Imran Khan said:


> this creation was stupid it canot be one country .
> 
> View attachment 801648


Instead of looking at the present map, you should re-read the history of the creation of Pakistan for which the entire Muslim population of India struggled hard for more than three decades.

The areas consisting of east and west Pakistan had the majority of Muslims. So, these were given to the new state of Pakistan. Today's India also has a large Muslim population. But they were not concentrated like Pakistan areas in the east and west.

Had our forefathers wanted two countries for the Muslims in or before 1947, the country called Bangladesh and Pakistan would have remained part of India. Only the unity of our people forced our rivals to accede to our demand for a separate country, 

This is why the 1940 Lahore Resolution, where two separate States were foreseen, was no more followed by the Muslim leaders.


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## F-6 enthusiast

Bangladesh
*Operation Kilo Flight: A story of valour*
Pilots who conducted air strikes during Liberation War recount memories of missions

Staff Correspondent
Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:00 AM Last update on: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:29 AM
An aircraft used by the Bangladeshi pilots during Operation Kilo Flight. Photo: Collected




An aircraft used by the Bangladeshi pilots during Operation Kilo Flight. Photo: Collected
It was December 3, 1971. An aircraft took off from an abandoned Second World War era airfield in Kailashahar, Manipur of India. Its mission was to bomb Eastern Oil Refinery in Chattogram's Patenga.
On the same day, a helicopter took off from Teliamura of Agartala to bomb the oil depot at Narayanganj's Godnail.
*

For all latest news, follow The Daily Star's Google News channel.*
This was the first bombing raid of brave Bangladeshi pilots. They aimed to cripple Pakistan army's fuel supply, as all vehicles and vessels of Pakistan occupation forces were dependent on the fuel depots.
This daring mission was codenamed "Operation Kilo Flight".

The operation had significantly turned the tide of Bangladesh's Liberation War, as it totally decimated Pakistan army's oil supply and made it impossible for them to continue a prolonged war.
On Saturday, three of the brave pilots who participated in the mission -- Group Captain (retd) Shamsul Alam, Bir Uttam, Squadron Leader (retd) Badrul Alam, Bir Uttam, and Captain Shahabuddin Ahmed, Bir Uttam -- recounted the momentous mission at a webinar titled "Kilo Flight: Air Raid by the Freedom Fighters".
The heroes remembered how they improvised the old, ramshackle flying machines for the raid.

According to Shamsul Alam, the Canadian-built otter aircraft, which was actually a civilian aeroplane, was fitted with rocket pods that could fire 14 rockets one by one. The door of the aircraft was removed and a machine gun was placed there.
The main body of the aircraft was modified to be a bomb bay, which could carry 10 bombs. However, as it was not a bomber plane, the bombs could not be dropped automatically; they had to be thrown by hand.
"It was kind of a suicidal mission for us. Maximum speed of the aircraft was only 80 miles per hour. We had to fly at a very low altitude along the coastline. Pakistani gun boats fitted with anti-aircraft guns used to patrol the coastline frequently.
If we were spotted, our tiny, unarmoured aircraft could have easily been shot down, even with rifle fire," said Shamsul, a flight lieutenant at that time.
Captain Shahabuddin and Squadron Leader Badrul, then a flying officer, were in the helicopter, which was also brilliantly improvised for the mission.
"The chopper was also fitted with a machine gun and rocket pods, which could fire 14 rockets," said Badrul.
"The helicopter was flown along Dhaka Cumilla highway. After reaching Demra, we turned south towards Godnail and reached our target without any obstacle," he recounted.
In both air raids, the valiant pilots successfully bombed a refinery and fuel depots, and returned to the base without any casualty.
"It was a spectacular scene. We were being blinded by the large columns of smoke and sky-high flames. Pakistani soldiers were shouting and running to and fro. But we could not watch for long. We had to turn back quickly to avoid being spotted," said Badrul.
A total of 58 freedom fighters contributed to this courageous air raid. And throughout the war, those heroes conducted at least 50 such air raids on Pakistani forces and their supply depots.
Dr Ahmad Ahasan, moderator of the webinar, said, "These valiant freedom fighters not only turned the tide of the war through their brilliant air raids, but also immensely contributed to the development of Bangladesh's air force and airline services after liberation. We shall never forget their bravery and invaluable contributions to our nation."

Operation Kilo Flight: A story of valour | The Daily Star

Operation Kilo Flight - Wikipedia

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## akramishaqkhan



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## bluesky

I sometimes watch this kind of video produced by people in west Pakistan that show their love for east Pakistan. Please enjoy.

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## Varunastra

Happy victory day to Bangladesh 🇧🇩 . 
শুভ বিজয় দিবস বাংলাদেশ.


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## Mentee

Hawaldar is still in denial

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## Zornix

The 1971 Liberation War of Bangladesh was raging and curfew was imposed by the Pakistan Army across Dhaka. Once the curfew was relaxed for some hours, Dr Alim Chowdhury would leave his family – his wife and two daughters, Neepa (5) and Nuzhat (3) -- at home in Paltan area and carry out ‘humanitarian’ work risking his life.

Dr Chowdhury, a visionary and ophthalmologist, used to collect medicines from various pharmacies and drug companies. He then hid the medicines in the bonnet of his car and delivered them at the secret base of the freedom fighters. He visited the secret hospital, which was there to treat the wounded freedom fighters. Dr Chowdhury would give treatment to the injured. Many freedom fighters recovered and returned to the “battlefield”.

Nuzhat Chowdhury Shampa’s eyes overflow with love for her father as she speaks about him. She can’t recollect much of the time she spent with him. When her father was martyred, she was only three. She says, “Pakistanis’ friends -- Razakars, Albadars, some of the Alshams forces -- took my father from our house in Paltan on December 15 around 4.30pm in front of our eyes. Three days later, on December 18, our family members found the mutilated body of my father and some others in the slaughterhouse of Rayer Bazar. My father’s chest was found pierced with many bullets. There were marks of torture all over his body; deep bayonet wounds on the left side of forehead and abdomen. My father’s eyes were gouged out by the beasts. The main executioner was Ashrafuzzaman Khan. My father’s only fault was offering treatment to the freedom fighters.”

As the war was at its fag end, Pakistan’s invading forces systematically started killing noted Bengali personalities. Many were abducted from their homes; while some were brutally murdered right in front of their family. The list of the martyrs is endless. There were 991 academicians, 13 journalists, 49 doctors, 42 lawyers and artists and 16 engineers among them. In all, 1, 111 such people were murdered.

A fresh curfew was clamped in Dhaka from December 4, 1971. On December 10, plan to massacre intellectuals and key personalities began. The nefarious plan was executed on December 14. Prominent people were picked by the Pakistan Army and their henchmen. About 200 intellectuals were abducted from their homes that day. They were blindfolded and taken to torture centres located in Mirpur, Mohammadpur, Nakhalpara, Rajar Bagh and many other places. After being tortured, they were brutally killed in Rayer Bazar and Mirpur slaughterhouses. Even after the surrender and official end of the war, there were allegations of firing by the Pakistani Army and its allies. In one such incident, renowned film-maker Zahir Raihan lost his life on January 30, 1972.

The most heinous crimes were committed by the Pakistani occupation forces and their local allies Al Shams, Al Badar and Razakars. These were planned, calculated and cold-blooded killings aimed at breaking the backbone of a nation struggling to liberate itself from the clutches of Pakistani troops. The perpetrators targeted the best Bengali minds and talent, including literary giants, philosophers, scientists, painters, teachers, researchers, journalists, lawyers, doctors, engineers, architects, sculptors, government and private employees, politicians, philanthropists, culture lovers, artists associated with film, drama and music, who were contributing significantly to the development of Bangladesh. After killing them, their bodies were dumped in the swamps of Rayer Bazar and Mirpur. Later, mutilated bodies of the martyrs were recovered from these swamps.

Similar atrocities were committed in other places outside Dhaka. All these martyrs represented the main driving force of the nation and acted as a beacon for the exploited people. They were ardent patriots who believed that one day the nation would become independent.

Major General Rao Farman Ali was the main planner of these killings, who acted on the orders of the Pakistan Army. And the infamous Al Badr Army, originally formed by Jamaat-e-Islami, helped prepare the hit list and the execution of the murders. The main perpetrators were Chowdhury Moinuddin (Operation In-Charge) and Ashrafuzzaman Khan (Chief Executioner) of Badar Army. After December 16, 1971, a personal diary of Ashrafuzzaman Khan was recovered from his house in Nakhalpara residence, two pages of which had names of about 20 intellectuals and their residential address.
According to the testimony given by his car driver Mofizuddin, the charred bodies of several intellectuals, whom he shot with his own hands, were found in swamps of Rayer Bazar and Sialbari slaughterhouses in Mirpur. Chowdhury Moinuddin was a member of the central committee of Jamaat-e-Islami in 1971. He used to convey the names and addresses of the intellectuals to General Rao Farman Ali and Brigadier Bashir Ahmed from the 'Daily Observer' building. Besides, there were ABM Khalek Majumdar (killer of Shahidullah Qaiser), Maulana Abdul Mannan (killer of Dr Alim Chowdhury), Abdul Quader Molla (killer of poet Mehrunnesa) and others. The main killers in Chittagong were Fazlul Quader Chowdhury and his two sons Salauddin Quader Chowdhury and Gias Quader Chowdhury.

Renowned writer and researcher Mohiuddin Ahmed says it is not sure how they planned it. However, from the night of March 25 to December 14, 1971, intellectuals, including teachers, journalists and artists, were killed in towns and villages across the country. But the sad truth is that it has not been delved into properly and there are many unanswered questions. Historian Muntasir Mamun said that the killing of intellectuals started before Jamaat-e-Islami's student union was completely transformed into Al-Badar. However, after the formation of Al-Badar Army, the responsibility of killing intellectuals was specifically given to them. Al-Badar force (Bahini) picked many from their homes and killed them in micro housing in Dhaka.
Historians say the names of many dead and missing intellectuals were written in Rao Farman Ali’s diary, which was found in the then Governor's House (now Banga Bhaban) in Dhaka. Mamun and Mohiuddin Ahmed jointly visited Pakistan and interviewed Rao Farman Ali in 1989. It is published in the book titled ‘Sey Sab Pakistani’.

Mamun says that Rao Farman Ali was involved in the murder of intellectuals directly or indirectly, which was subsequently proved in some documents. However, the entire military junta was involved. Mamun also believes that the then military commander of East Pakistan, Lieutenant General Amir Abdullah Khan Niazi, also had the blueprint.

He says that Niazi had instructed not to place any Bengali official in any post. All the top officials of the Pakistani Army were involved in the planning of killing of intellectuals.

The noted intellectuals killed include Prof Munir Chowdhury, Dr Alim Chowdhury, Professor Muniruzzaman, Dr Fazle Rabbi, Siraj Uddin Hossain, Shahidullah Kaiser, Prof GC Dev, Jyotirmoy Guha Thakurta, Prof Santosh Bhattacharya, Mofazzal Haider Chowdhury, Prof Ghiyas Uddin, Prof Anwar Pasha, Prof Rashidul Hasan, Dr Abul Khair, Dr Murtaza, journalist Khandaker Abu Taher, Nizamuddin Ahmed, SA Mannan (Ladu Bhai), ANM Ghulam Mostafa, Syed Nazmul Haque, Selina Parveen.









Pakistan Army abducted intellectuals, blindfolded, tortured and killed them


These were cold-blooded killings aimed at breaking the backbone of a nation struggling to liberate itself from the clutches of Pakistani troops.




www.indiatoday.in

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## Primus

Nope that was the Soviets. 

Read about KGBs involvement in the 71 war.

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## Zornix

Primus said:


> Nope that was the Soviets.
> 
> Read about KGBs involvement in the 71 war.


Keep sticking your head in the sand, why would the KGB have interest in "defaming" the Pakistan Army lol? they already do a good enough job themselves giving them a bad name.


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## Primus

Zornix said:


> Keep sticking your head in the sand, why would the KGB have interest in "defaming" the Pakistan Army lol? they already do a good enough job themselves giving them a bad name.


Well Mr Indian disguised as a Pakistani, their aim was not to just defame the army, it was to kill the intellectuals and those that could actually think and question a certain political figure, thus poisoning the minds of the majority and blaming it on Pakistan. It wasn't the Indians, it was the KGB.


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## hussain0216

It was Hindus we mostly targeted, they realized what was happening and we're determined to ensure Bangla remained a Muslim state as per partition


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## Imran Khan

they do same in 2022 too

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## Mugen

And now they are doing it in West Pakistan, so it's not beyond belief.

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## Lt Col Habib Zahir

hussain0216 said:


> It was Hindus we mostly targeted, they realized what was happening and we're determined to ensure Bangla remained a Muslim state as per partition


If it was hindus who were mostly targeted then why were 500,000 Bihari muslims (figure by qutubidin aziz) ploinked enmasse by Mukti Bahini which was comprised entirely of Bengali muslims?


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## Bleek

Stop opening these same retarded repetitive threads, you larping Pajeet



hussain0216 said:


> It was Hindus we mostly targeted, they realized what was happening and we're determined to ensure Bangla remained a Muslim state as per partition


Based.


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## nangyale

Mugen said:


> And now they are doing it in West Pakistan, so it's not beyond belief.


This Army could never unlearn what the colonialists taught them.


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## PakAlp

So 34,000 East Pakistani armed forces declared curfew all over West Pakistan? Where were the bangali army officers, police, special forces, paramilitary etc? Asking for knowledge purposes.


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## dexter

بی بی سی کے نمائندے ایلن ہارٹ ڈھاکہ میں جنگ کے آغاز سے موجود تھے اور انھوں نے بی بی سی کے فلیگ شپ پروگرام پینوراما کے لیے 'دا برتھ آف بنگلہ دیش' کے نام سے تقریباً 40 منٹ طویل فلم بنائی۔ تین دسمبر کو مشرقی پاکستان میں انڈین فوج کی پیش قدمی سے لے کر 16 دسمبر کو پاکستانی فوج کے ہتھیار ڈالنے تک ڈھاکہ میں موجود بی بی سی کے نمائندے نے کیا دیکھا؟ دیکھیے اس ڈاکیومنٹری میں۔۔۔ سقوط ڈھاکہ کو آج 51 برس ہو چکے ہیں اور آج کے دن کی مناسبت سے ہم یہ ویڈیو دوبارہ شیئر کر رہیں ہیں۔ یہ ویڈیو گذشتہ سال شائع کی گئی تھی۔


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## Bilal9

16th December - Bhartiya Vijay Diwas (Indian Victory day) celebrated in Bangladesh !!

We are neither independent, nor free.

Still under Indian yoke.

A day that shall live in infamy, the day we went under Indian hegemony and control.

By the way - Bangladesh intellectuals were rounded up and killed on 15th December 1971 by Indian RAW involvement, not by Pakistani Military Administration.

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## bluesky

Bilal9 said:


> 16th December - Bhartiya Vijay Diwas (Indian Victory day) celebrated in Bangladesh !!
> 
> We are neither independent, nor free.
> 
> Still under Indian yoke.
> 
> A day that shall live in infamy, the day we went under Indian hegemony and control.
> 
> By the way - Bangladesh intellectuals were rounded up and killed on 15th December 1971 by Indian RAW involvement, not by Pakistani Military Administration.


BAL party is the issue. It is bent on distorting history to keep itself in power with Indian mercy.

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