# All Pakistani F-16s are accounted for: US Govt buries Indian propaganda.



## PDFChamp

Source

It would be nice if this US report puts an end to Indian nonsense claims. One more arrow in Modi's behind. 

*Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.*
*New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*
By  Lara Seligman | April 4, 2019, 7:50 PM

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi waves at the public rally in Kolkata, India, on April 3. (Atul Loke/Getty Images)







India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

*The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.*

It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.

The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.

Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.

“As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”

The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.

He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.

One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.

Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.

*But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.*

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
2 | Like Like:
105


----------



## PakSword

Chalo bhaee... Abb kehna shuru karo ke jf 17 giraya tha...

Reactions: Like Like:
51


----------



## 1Paki$tani

hahahahahaha



So F-16 nightmare lives on for the Indians.

If the planes, as a machine, could ever have nightmares I am definitely sure for IAF fighter jets it will be F-16.

Reactions: Like Like:
26


----------



## xyxmt

let it go people

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Death Professor

@Cobra Arbok. Care to comment? How about this excuse? 

The Americans want to sell their F16's they wouldn't want to damage F16's reputation by accepting a downed plane so they are denying/hiding the downed just because of it. Can you conjure up some more excuses?

Reactions: Like Like:
38


----------



## GumNaam



Reactions: Like Like:
39


----------



## SQ8

And so it happened as predicted @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Dazzler @Bratva @Rafi

Our gang is all there, same can’t be said for the other side.

However, that also means the end for the Tata F-21 bid now that the US has refuted the holy scripture that is the Indian narrative

Reactions: Like Like:
81


----------



## PDFChamp

Let the Indian SU-30 Counting begin.

Reactions: Like Like:
65


----------



## Vortex

Yes, as said by @xyxmt, let it go.

Don’t humiliate them more. They will die of high Bp, heart attack, brain stroke, or simply of too much gas with constipation.








Who will we troll then ?

Reactions: Like Like:
32


----------



## GumNaam

Vortex said:


> Yes, as said by @xyxmt, let it go.
> 
> Don’t humiliate them more. They will die of high Bp, heart attack, brain stroke, or simply of too much gas with constipation.
> *
> Who will we troll then ?*


uhm, the isrealis!

Reactions: Like Like:
18


----------



## Umair Nawaz

@Osiris see what i told u the other day? all our aircraft r accounted for with serial numbers.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Microsoft

Pakistani hologram technology!

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## GumNaam

indians stop worrying about making fake claims and start seriously very very VERY SERIOUSLY start worrying about their economy as the u.s. is now pulling the rug from under the indian feet out sheer disappointment. they fed and bred india financially, economically and militarily to be take China out once and for all but after over 20 years of all the support, india couldn't even handle a country 1/6th its size and economy...yanay kay bilkul hi thusssssssssssssssss...hawa hi nikal gayi! China kia khaak laray ga india? u.s. wants to teach india lesson and that its relationship with the u.s. comes with not strings, but CHAINS with a choke-hold noose around delhi's neck attached!

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## Axis Of Logic

Evidence suggests that Pakistan’s F-16s were involved in the battle. The remnants of a U.S.-made AIM-120 air-to-air missile was found near the site; out of all the aircraft involved, only the F-16 can shoot such a weapon.

When the incident occurred, India asked the U.S. government to investigate whether Pakistan’s use of the F-16 against India violated the terms of the foreign military sale agreements.

However, the first defense official said the agreement did not involve any terms limiting the use of the F-16s.

*“It would be incredibly naive for us to believe that we could sell some type of equipment to Pakistan that they would not intend to use in a fight,” the official said.*

The U.S. State Department and the Indian and Pakistani embassies declined to comment.

Re- bold part: Indians are getting humiliated day in and out worldwide.

Reactions: Like Like:
44


----------



## WaLeEdK2

It’s no use now. They’ll just say this was a paid article by ISPR. Modi has already milked it enough.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GumNaam

PDFChamp said:


> Source
> 
> It would be nice if this US report puts an end to Indian nonsense claims. One more arrow in Modi's behind.


the u.s. is keeping quiet, totally "mum" on this until at least post indian elections. they want modi to win so they won't issue anything super humiliating to him, he is a jahil retarded chai wala that the u.s. can easily manipulate as its lapdog when and where it wants.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Indus Pakistan

"American's don't know how to count"

_*Modi's as*ss exploded ...._

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Arsalan 345

yes it's true.indians were lying.what a shame!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Crusher

I think now indian propagandists should die with shame, their lies are totally exposed. I was sure from the beginning that indian government is making their usual propaganda to reduce the embarrassment of 27th Feb humiliation.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Vortex

Now we should spread this news on as much possible social media ( I don’t have account) and on différents forums. I will do it on french one

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Ultima Thule

why so many threads on similar topic are being posted since 27 FAB every one know what was the reality is, time to close @The Eagle @waz please close this thread , thanks


----------



## GumNaam

Indus Pakistan said:


> "American's don't know how to count"
> 
> _**Modi's as*ss exploded ....*_


 I'm tweetin' that man!!! 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113971047156465664

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Falcon26

Pakistan accomplishment:

1) Breach of Indian airspace
2) bombing runs on 6 different military installation
3) disabling of Indian multi-layered air defense systems
4) taking Su-30mki out of the equation
5) shooting down 2 IAF jets
6) capturing an indian pilot alive
7) shuttering and exposing India’s decades old misinformation campaign 

India’s accomplishment:

1) one failed air incursion
2) killing of some trees and a crow

Crow’s accomplishment:

Downing of Indian Mig-21 in the Rajistan area

https://thedefensepost.com/2019/03/08/india-mig-21-fighter-jet-crash-rajasthan-bird-strike/

Even the crow downed more jets than the IAF. You can’t make this up lol

Reactions: Like Like:
61


----------



## Arsalan 345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113953682020864000

Reactions: Like Like:
18


----------



## Slides

Yeh toh purri bezati ho gaye india ki. Can't hide from this.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## CrazyZ

Pakistan's F-16's have been counted by a third party and verified to all be their. I am now 99.9% convinced that second plane to be a shot down was a Su-30MKI. The Su-30MKI fighter pilot has also been found..."died in a car accident"...to complete the cover up. The only question now: was it an F-16 or JF-17 that shot down the Su-30MKI in the dogfight?

Reactions: Like Like:
19


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

The F-16 has become Miandad’s sixer at Sharjah for the Indians.

Reactions: Like Like:
38


----------



## Slides

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> The F-16 has become Miandad’s sixer at Sharjah for the Indians.



Sometimes you really do feel Allah is looking over us despite our own faults.

Reactions: Like Like:
33


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Indian excuses I’ve counted in the last couple of minutes on Twitter:

1. US is Pakistan’s daddy and is keeping Pakistan happy (forget about all the weapons being sold to India)
2. US is beholden to Pakistan because of Afghanistan peace talks
3. US doesn’t want it’s F-16 reputation damaged
4. Some ‘brother’ Muslim country loaned an F-16 to Pakistan to make up the numbers

.... more to follow I’m sure.

Reactions: Like Like:
52


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

As I have been saying all along: the US "White Males" - the ultimate paradigm of arrogance and audacity - can put up with all Pak adventures but not with PAF's dishonoring their F-16s for these birds are nothing but their own reflections...

_The East is the East, and the West is the West - Rudyard Kipling_

Reactions: Like Like:
21


----------



## Cookie Monster

Microsoft said:


> Pakistani hologram technology!


Nonsense...Pakistan doesn't have any technology. It's just a paintjob by Pakistan...the hologram tech is Chinese, which the Chinese copied off of other countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Arsalan 345

i think this dagger story might also be false.i actually trusted iaf when they said f-16 down.i am stunned.looks like they lost su-30.can russia count su-30?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## saiyan0321

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Some ‘brother’ Muslim country loaned an F-16 to Pakistan to make up the numbers



Knew some moron would use it. Yeah its like counting the number of milk cartons in a store and not matching serial numbers and registration numbers to the stock kept by a state.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Microsoft

Falcon26 said:


> Pakistan accomplishment:
> 
> 1) Breach of Indian airspace
> 2) bombing runs on 6 different military installation
> 3) disabling of Indian multi-layered air defense systems
> 4) taking Su-30mki out of the equation
> 5) shooting down 2 IAF jets
> 6) capturing an indian pilot alive
> 7) shuttering and exposing India’s decades old misinformation campaign
> 
> India’s accomplishment:
> 
> 1) one failed air incursion
> 2) killing of some trees and a crow
> 
> Crow’s accomplishment:
> 
> Downing of Indian Mig-21 in the Rajistan area
> 
> https://thedefensepost.com/2019/03/08/india-mig-21-fighter-jet-crash-rajasthan-bird-strike/
> 
> Even the crow downed more jets than the IAF. You can’t make this up lol



Thanks to JF-17! JF-17 is an accomplishment that belongs right at the top of that list!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Arsalan 345

pakistan air force makes us proud.i am stunned.they violated indian air space. indian sam brought down their own helicopter.paf dropped bombs.they returned safely and even kill one mig-21 and probably one su-30.this is amazing.i can't believe that anyone can survive in this type of indian defensive layers.we even jammed transmission.this is very professional!

Reactions: Like Like:
14


----------



## Falcon26

Microsoft said:


> Thanks to JF-17! JF-17 is an accomplishment that belongs right at the top of that list!



Don’t forget the crow too. The crow remembers!



Arsalan 345 said:


> pakistan air force makes us proud.i am stunned.they violated indian air space. indian sam brought down their own helicopter.paf dropped bombs.they returned safely and even kill one mig-21 and probably one su-30.this is amazing.i can't believe that anyone can survive in this type of indian defensive layers.we even jammed transmission.this is very professional!



More importantly, each claim made by PAF has turned out to be 100% correct. I know firmly believe the SU-30MKI kill.

Reactions: Like Like:
18


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Arsalan 345 said:


> i think this dagger story might also be false.i actually trusted iaf when they said f-16 down.i am stunned.looks like they lost su-30.can russia count su-30?


They would be screaming it from the rooftops (Indian government and media) if it was true.

Of course now that their nose is getting rubbed into the dirt so thoroughly over both Balakot and the F-16 claims, Modi May very well start selective propaganda leaks to hide his failures before the elections and claim some nonexistent victory at the LoC.

Just remember what it took to dislodge the PA & NLI from Kargil. Pakistan is an even match for India when it comes to limited skirmishes on the LoC. At most you might see some very limited success on both sides, but there is going to be no dramatic change either way.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Arsalan 345

Falcon26 said:


> Don’t forget the crow too. The crow remembers!
> 
> 
> 
> More importantly, each claim made by PAF has turned out to be 100% correct. I know firmly believe the SU-30MKI kill.



one of my friend told me about f-16 simulation and how hard it's to survive in this type of defensive layers.chances of being hit is always high but we did it perfectly.their spyder failed.their communications failed.abhinandan was flying blind.sad state of affairs by iaf.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## monitor

PDFChamp said:


> Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.


Why so late in counting might be other friendly country's F-16 painted as Pakistani F-16 .




PDFChamp said:


> a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit.


But Pakistan found un exploded missile on mig-21 debris so this claim by Indian is fales 


PDFChamp said:


> Let the Indian SU-30 Counting begin.



Why Pakistanis haven't ask for it is surprising as they like their Indian counter part believe paf shot down a Su-30mki.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Oscar said:


> And so it happened as predicted @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Dazzler @Bratva @Rafi
> 
> Our gang is all there, same can’t be said for the other side.
> 
> However, that also means the end for the Tata F-21 bid now that the US has refuted the holy scripture that is the Indian narrative


I think the perceptual impact of this situation gives the F-16V and Block-72 a huge case for the PAF, provided it's ever offered and the money to buy them is available. With LM's current orders in the pipeline, the fighter will be in production for at least 5-7 years, so you never know...

Reactions: Like Like:
21


----------



## HawkEye27

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113953682020864000
My full symathies with the brave lady journalist she must be now ready for a lot of indian abuse

Btw if u check her TL, a lot of intl journos are buying her version

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## CrazyZ

monitor said:


> Why so late in counting might be other friendly country's F-16 painted as Pakistani F-16 .
> 
> 
> 
> But Pakistan found un exploded missile on mig-21 debris so this claim by Indian is fales
> 
> 
> Why Pakistanis haven't ask for it is surprising as they like their Indian counter part believe paf shot down a Su-30mki.



Excuses excuses...Why is the IAF screaming for Rafales and Mig 29s??

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Microsoft

David Attenborough: This marks the beginning of Indian hibernation season. They will return once the chimpianzee in chief, Modi, blows the horn of bullsh*t with his as$.

Reactions: Like Like:
20


----------



## valkyr_96

Very interesting to find MBI Munshi....he I believe used to post here

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113964664298172416

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## saiyan0321

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> They would be screaming it from the rooftops (Indian government and media) if it was true.
> 
> Of course now that their nose is getting rubbed into the dirt so thoroughly over both Balakot and the F-16 claims, Modi May very well start selective propaganda leaks to hide his failures before the elections and claim some nonexistent victory at the LoC.
> 
> Just remember what it took to dislodge the PA & NLI from Kargil. Pakistan is an even match for India when it comes to limited skirmishes on the LoC. At most you might see some very limited success on both sides, but there is going to be no dramatic change either way.




Geographical advantage is a nightmare fr opposing forces. One of the major reasons why Pakistan was able to take those High peaks in kargil without major damage ( which it would have sustained had the peaks been manned properly) is the emptiness of them. This made it a nightmare for India to dislodge Pakistan from it and they had to make multiple thrusts to pull it off suffering casualties. Even then some peaks remained under Pakistan control. just like Pakistan India is also entrenched at many advantageous positions which is why if you would study the 1965 and 1971 war you would see that Pakistan and India tried to pace the Kashmir skirmishes to the points where they held the advantage and avoided attacking places where the opposing forces were entrenched. 

Modi has a very efficient media campaign and social media accounts working 24/7 feeding propaganda to the masses. I doubt he needs to do anything more. This report will barely earn a mention from some media sectors of Indian media which will then be attacked ruthlessly by other sections for being unpatriotic. By the time the elections end the Indian masses will be choking on propaganda and these findings will be ignored and forgotten completely. 

As I stated before. Their media is working over time feeding to the masses that A. Pakistan is losing everywhere with internal faultlines with massive casualties and is suffering on the LOC

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## CrazyZ

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I think the perceptual impact of this situation gives the F-16V and Block-72 a huge case for the PAF, provided it's ever offered and the money to buy them is available. With LM's current orders in the pipeline, the fighter will be in production for at least 5-7 years, so you never know...



Forget the F-16...time to move on.


----------



## mingle

Now question is which plane AIM 120 hit?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

tipu_ssw said:


> Btw if u check her TL, a lot of intl journos are buying her version


And those journalists and commentators are also wishing her good luck on dealing with the expected nationalist tirade ... India’s hypernationalism is not being looked at kindly by international observers who try to be objective.

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## Microsoft

CrazyZ said:


> Forget the F-16...time to move on.



Do you realize the anxiety just the words "efff sola" gives Indians? The real threat has been proven to be PAF pilots with JF-17 under their control, but the nightmares the Indians have are of F-16. The experience that PAF pilots have with the bird is also invaluable, it also acts as a bridge with the US. It's perfectly reasonable to not become overly reliant on F-16 but in my opinion it would be a grave mistake to completely dispose of it.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## mingle

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I think the perceptual impact of this situation gives the F-16V and Block-72 a huge case for the PAF, provided it's ever offered and the money to buy them is available. With LM's current orders in the pipeline, the fighter will be in production for at least 5-7 years, so you never know...


Bilal Pak should make case to West that we can stop india with conventional arms too yes I feel more F16 will come new and old with V upgrades.PAF should go for at least 56 new and used what ever we get will huge boost both US and Pak relationships .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Syed Asif Bukhari

There were three parachutes . Now, its confirmed that F16 is not shot down. Then who were coming down with those parachutes? I think its time for Indians to ask questions from their military .This revelation has solidified Pakistan's claim of shooting down Su 30 mki. Aik teer do shikar

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## mingle

I feel American know about second Indian plane as well which one it was??? They must be very proud over theior tech and F16 performance.



CrazyZ said:


> Forget the F-16...time to move on.


No No add as many as u can very important corner stone for Pak US relationship



tipu_ssw said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113953682020864000
> My full symathies with the brave lady journalist she must be now ready for a lot of indian abuse
> 
> Btw if u check her TL, a lot of intl journos are buying her version


U should follow her on twitter she is awesome

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## PDFChamp

CrazyZ said:


> Forget the F-16...time to move on.



It's nice to be able to throw different things at the enemy to keep them guessing. That's why we have fast and spin bowlers, for example.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## mingle

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> As I have been saying all along: the US "White Males" - the ultimate paradigm of arrogance and audacity - can put up with all Pak adventures but not with PAF's dishonoring their F-16s for these birds are nothing but their own reflections...
> 
> _The East is the East, and the West is the West - Rudyard Kipling_


U spot on American r very selfish when theior tech reputation comes just wait LM gonna make sale pitch that our F16 shot down Russian SU30 keep watch more slaps on Indians face r coming from DC

Reactions: Like Like:

4


----------



## Tps43

Oscar said:


> And so it happened as predicted @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Dazzler @Bratva @Rafi
> 
> Our gang is all there, same can’t be said for the other side.
> 
> However, that also means the end for the Tata F-21 bid now that the US has refuted the holy scripture that is the Indian narrative


Exactly and I think usa wants us to disclose our ops details to world so that their F 16s can get record sale deals

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## mingle

Tps43 said:


> Exactly and I think usa wants us to disclose our ops details to world so that their F 16s can get record sale deals


It's formidable plane I have gut feeling more will come to Pak.Such kind of events don't happen every day SU 30 is Russian cream by tech and reputation shot down by F16 is huge event.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## GumNaam

mingle said:


> U spot on American r very selfish when theior tech reputation comes just wait LM gonna make sale pitch that our F16 shot down Russian SU30 keep watch more slaps on Indians face r coming from DC


Yeah we don't wanna hurt Russian sales and jeopardize our new budding friendship. Poor people only have two things to export energy and weapons!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## mingle

GumNaam said:


> Yeah we don't wanna hurt Russian sales and jeopardize our new budding friendship. Poor people only have two things to export energy and weapons!


It's not Russian fault but we need good relationships with US as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tps43

mingle said:


> It's formidable plane I have gut feeling more will come to Pak.Such kind of events don't happen every day SU 30 is Russian cream by tech and reputation shot down by F16 is huge event.


Yes but vis vas usa we ned good political environment as well but never the less chances are bright

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GumNaam

mingle said:


> It's not Russian fault but we need good relationships with US as well.


Keep good relations with the u.s. but from a distance. 
animosity with amreeka is dangerous but their friendship is lethal...
- General Ayub Khan

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## mingle

GumNaam said:


> Keep good relations with the u.s. but from a distance.
> animosity amreeka is dangerous but their friendship is lethal...
> - General Ayub Khan


True but if we had chance to get more access in American tech we should go for it this new shift in America thinking is pure business nothing more we will get more jetts from US and more AIM120 Yeh babay made my day.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GumNaam

mingle said:


> True but if we had chance to get more access in American tech we should go for it this new shift in America thinking is pure business nothing more we will get more jetts from US and more AIM120 Yeh babay made my day.


Eh, rather get the J10C.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CrazyZ

mingle said:


> I feel American know about second Indian plane as well which one it was??? They must be very proud over theior tech and F16 performance.
> 
> 
> No No add as many as u can very important corner stone for Pak US relationship
> 
> 
> U should follow her on twitter she is awesome



USA is not a reliable source for defense equipment. India is the larger defense market....so will get the priority from LM and others. We can keep the vipers we and use them till the airframes are done.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CodeforFood

Falcon26 said:


> Don’t forget the crow too. The crow remembers!
> 
> 
> 
> More importantly, each claim made by PAF has turned out to be 100% correct. I know firmly believe the SU-30MKI kill.


I am getting sold on it too...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## darksider

now, this is another level of lie.@indians do you guys don't feel guilty when you lie or it's in your genes now that's why don't feel anything.

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## SQ8

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I think the perceptual impact of this situation gives the F-16V and Block-72 a huge case for the PAF, provided it's ever offered and the money to buy them is available. With LM's current orders in the pipeline, the fighter will be in production for at least 5-7 years, so you never know...


Perhaps, but I think we are not going to pay completely for US equipment. It was attractive since “we” weren’t paying for all of it. We would rather pay cash in full from our own pockets for something not with strings

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## Asfandyar Bhittani

*Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.*
*New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*
BY LARA SELIGMAN | APRIL 4, 2019, 7:50 PM




Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi waves at the public rally in Kolkata, India, on April 3. (Atul Loke/Getty Images) 


India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.

It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.

The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.

Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.

“As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”

The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.

He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.

One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.

Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.

But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## darksider

There's a buried lede here: "The first [US] defense official said the agreement did not involve any terms limiting the use of the F-16s." Another blow delivered to India.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113995923619815424

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## SQ8

Tps43 said:


> Exactly and I think usa wants us to disclose our ops details to world so that their F 16s can get record sale deals


We will see them trying to pitch it to India with the 120D.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Falcon26

darksider said:


> There's a buried lede here: "The first [US] defense official said the agreement did not involve any terms limiting the use of the F-16s." Another blow delivered to India.



It is dishonest to copy and paste someone else’s tweet and pass it off as yours.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113995923619815424

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## PDFChamp

@Joe Shearer, hey old pal, who called who's bluff? It's about time GoI decided to do right by Kashmiris.



PDFChamp said:


> “As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## darksider

Falcon26 said:


> It is dishonest to copy and paste someone else’s tweet and pass it off as yours.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113995923619815424


sorry didnot change wording becuase of laziness but i saw this before even i saw that tweet but i like his wording more than mine.but next time it will not happen.i will choose my broken words to post.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## SSGcommandoPAK

India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/foreig...t-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/amp/

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## SSGcommandoPAK

Pentagon official Lara Seligman also confirmed this report !

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## MBilal106

India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.

It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.

The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.

Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.

“As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”

The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.

He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.

One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.

Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.

But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.

Source: Foreign Policy Magazine
BY LARA SELIGMAN | APRIL 4, 2019, 7:50 PM

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## darksider

this should merge with thread already running about this topis.
@waz

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Yaseen1

another humiliation for india.It is difficult to down f16 in dogfight ,only possibility of downing f16 is by using sam but indian sam are unable to detect and intercept any jet on 27 feb.This claim of india was unrealistic from the beginning

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Secret Service

Russians already know what happened to IAF and Su 30 on 27th feb. Similarly Americans always remain present at airforce bases and watch for PAF F16s flying in Pakistan.
Now this statement has some purpose, either good or bad for Pakistan. Lets see...

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Wa Muhammada

Hope this gets coverage on Indian channels

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rafi

Oscar said:


> And so it happened as predicted @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Dazzler @Bratva @Rafi
> 
> Our gang is all there, same can’t be said for the other side.
> 
> However, that also means the end for the Tata F-21 bid now that the US has refuted the holy scripture that is the Indian narrative



As we all confirmed, that there was no loss on our side, all our birds are accounted for. As for the other side, we have at least 3 down, 1 Mig21, 1 Su30mki, and 1 mi17.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## SSGcommandoPAK

Lol I already know what the Indians will say,US has done this to protect image and reputation of it's Aircrafts,Lockheed wanna sell F-21 to us thus saying no falcon down.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## dilpakistani

Ohooo... so jo eak Pakistani Jet inhoon nai khaboon mai khadaira tha wo bhi nai khudra ..... India ka naaam daboo dia chokidaar nai ...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## YeBeWarned

Am I the only one here noticing that its been 5 Pages and there hasn't been any Indian Poster Posted some BS here ? Where are all the Indians ? cooking up some story ?

Reactions: Like Like:
20


----------



## untitled

Starlord said:


> ...Where are all the Indians ?


Probably trolling Lara Seligman

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## IceCold

@randomradio
Like i told you in another thread, this whole indian drama was nothing but farce and now even Indian allies are busting your lies right, left and center.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beast

Yaseen1 said:


> another humiliation for india.It is difficult to down f16 in dogfight ,only possibility of downing f16 is by using sam but indian sam are unable to detect and intercept any jet on 27 feb.This claim of india was unrealistic from the beginning


Indian will claim PAF get a F-16 from Turkish on fast track and repainted and remould the serial number on parts to misled US that no F-16 loses.

Reactions: Like Like:
14


----------



## Falcon26

Starlord said:


> Am I the only one here noticing that its been 5 Pages and there hasn't been any Indian Poster Posted some BS here ? Where are all the Indians ? cooking up some story ?



Give them 2-3 weeks like post February 27th. They need to assemble and write a script to counter the facts.

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## untitled

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I think the perceptual impact of this situation gives the F-16V and Block-72 a huge case for the PAF,


The case was made the moment India threatened Pakistan with a missile attack despite she having a very vocal no first use policy.

A strong Pakistani Air Force has the potential to deter any Indian military misadventure on Pakistani soil and also a possible escalation leading to a nuclear exchange.

Not sure why we have not capitalized on this yet?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Radd-ul-Fasaad

I wonder if India media will cover this?


----------



## Amaa'n

Microsoft said:


> Do you realize the anxiety just the words "efff sola" gives Indians? The real threat has been proven to be PAF pilots with JF-17 under their control, but the nightmares the Indians have are of F-16. The experience that PAF pilots have with the bird is also invaluable, it also acts as a bridge with the US. It's perfectly reasonable to not become overly reliant on F-16 but in my opinion it would be a grave mistake to completely dispose of it.


no, their n.m is JF17T. 
IAF knows what hit them, who owned them. It be shameful for them to hold pieces of SD10 and AMRAAM and tell their public that the Tiger's got owned by a Chinese Cat, and not just a scratch but got their asses handed to them.
for public consumption it is best to stick with something sophisticated hence the cooked up F-16 drama

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Salza

Radd-ul-Fasaad said:


> I wonder if India media will cover this?



These losers will remain quiet and pretends to ignore the report. Anyways another embarrassing reality check for them but I am sure most of the injuns know this already in their hearts.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Yaseen1

this confirmation by u.s also shows that jf17 shot down both indians jets and f16 are not used in combat


----------



## Beast

Salza said:


> These losers will remain quiet and pretends to ignore the report. Anyways another embarrassing reality check for them but I am sure most of the injuns know this already in their hearts.


Indian feel they need to win on surface will do. Reality for them is not necessary.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## valkyr_96

Jao bachoun F16.net, KeyPublishing aur baqi forums pe jao aur batao teen pilot thay baqi dou ka kiya hua?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## untitled

Wa Muhammada said:


> Hope this gets coverage on Indian channels


And be labeled traitors by those _chowkidars_?


----------



## Amaa'n

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> Lol I already know what the Indians will say,US has done this to protect image and reputation of it's Aircrafts,Lockheed wanna sell F-21 to us thus saying no falcon down.


am reading one of their forums and the excuses are hilarious ----

1) Jordanians donated one eff sola
2) US only checked the eff - sola that were under FMS - so Jordanian eff-sola were not inspected
3) We downed JF17 since digital signature is similar to eff-16 and and IAF got mistaken
4) Sherdils has jordanian eff-sola US never checked those

  ....kaisay kar lete ho ye sab yar

Reactions: Like Like:
17


----------



## The BrOkEn HeArT

PakSword said:


> Chalo bhaee... Abb kehna shuru karo ke jf 17 giraya tha...


Then Chinese will come up.saying " nobody can shoot their plane".


----------



## War Thunder

Arsalan 345 said:


> i think this dagger story might also be false.i actually trusted iaf when they said f-16 down.i am stunned.looks like they lost su-30.can russia count su-30?



OMG You trusted IAF...
Yo crazy up there or too much exposure to bollywood?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SQ8

balixd said:


> am reading one of their forums and the excuses are hilarious ----
> 
> 1) Jordanians donated one eff sola
> 2) US only checked the eff - sola that were under FMS - so Jordanian eff-sola were not inspected
> 3) We downed JF17 since digital signature is similar to eff-16 and and IAF got mistaken
> 
> ....kaisay kar lete ho ye sab yar


Because its their national character. When you have 60+ years of the underdog and victim phenomenon imposed through media and social narrative, added with religious extremism it creates a nation so convinced of their moral high horse and their narrative that logic and truth is irrelevant.

Its like a mental patient being told of a reality they dont want to accept, a continued self deception will continue to occur.

Reactions: Like Like:
32


----------



## untitled

dilpakistani said:


> khadaira

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Daghalodi



Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## SQ8

Reichsmarschall said:


> @Hellfire get the **** out of this forum you lying pretentious Ahole


Lets not lose our cool. If he has been fed a lie by those he trusts, it’s not on his intellect to dispute it.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Vapnope

hey Amerika Y U do dis?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Salza

One by one Pakistani side of the story proving to be true. No wonder these injuns are very afraid from ISPR as well now.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

GumNaam said:


> uhm, the isrealis!


To be honest israeliz would be a worthy foe , indians are just too cheap and low quality people...
But i don't think we should make new enemies we are better off at a distance from anything related to israel or middle east menace

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## War Thunder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113974919325470722

hahahaah indians
im laughing at your existence... nothing but shame and humiliation. 

_No offense intended at sane indians _

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## SABRE

mingle said:


> Now question is which plane AIM 120 hit?



If the F-16 radar backed up the information in its library then the Americans might access it. Regardless of their relations with India US, alongside Lockheed & Raytheon, would love to have a Su-30 kill.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Signalian

saiyan0321 said:


> Geographical advantage is a nightmare fr opposing forces. One of the major reasons why Pakistan was able to take those High peaks in kargil without major damage ( which it would have sustained had the peaks been manned properly) is the emptiness of them. This made it a nightmare for India to dislodge Pakistan from it and they had to make multiple thrusts to pull it off suffering casualties. Even then some peaks remained under Pakistan control. just like Pakistan India is also entrenched at many advantageous positions which is why if you would study the 1965 and 1971 war you would see that Pakistan and India tried to pace the Kashmir skirmishes to the points where they held the advantage and avoided attacking places where the opposing forces were entrenched.


By-pass peaks strongholds and bunkers on peaks. circumvent and cut off rear. Not every peak has entrenched enemy on it. There are many peaks with nominal presence or just observation posts. Use of artillery and Air Force helps assaulting troops, this was seen in Kargil. It's not really static warfare. In future wars, helicopters will play a major role in assaulting, reinforcing, supplying and capturing peaks. Not proper Gunships maybe, but transport helicopters. It will also be important to take on roads and cross roads, bridges and peaks over looking highways. The further north we go, manning posts becomes more difficult, in fact the density of troops starts to decrease also and eventually becomes minimal around Siachen area due to climate and geography. The use of Air Force becomes necessary to dislodge enemy troops from peaks and interdiction missions become more important to deny the enemy from reinforcing or counter attacking any captured peak. Road transport system is very slow in mountainous terrain and width of roads matters as well as tonnage of supply that cargo trucks can haul. PAF has not shown much presence in LOC before, IAF has had good experience in Kargil and nearby sectors. Most of the experience that PAF has shown in conducting strikes in mountainous terrain is on the western border.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## valkyr_96

Oscar said:


> Lets not lose our cool. If he has been fed a lie by those he trusts, it’s not on his intellect to dispute it.


 Not just this one.....there have been many more.


----------



## Tejas Spokesman

NDTV reports it could Jordan supplied F-16 Block 15 ADF.
Possible but I have some doubts about it though; as they are not AMRAAM capable and they are based far away in Bholari.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113996048060407808

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

valkyr_96 said:


> Not just this one.....there have been many more.


It goes both ways. The Pakistani nation was lied to about Kargil, about operations in FATA, about attacks.

But when you do have moral supremacy as we have in THIS case, and stick to the truth; the lies for the other side unravel.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Mav3rick

Yaseen1 said:


> this confirmation by u.s also shows that jf17 shot down both indians jets and f16 are not used in combat



If the news of an AIM-120C-5 fragment landing inside IoK is correct then F-16's were indeed used. Could be that the F-16's fired from 30-50 km's inside Pakistani Airspace. But then it would be very interesting to note whether the missile(s) hit any target(s) or not.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Reichsmarschall

Oscar said:


> Lets not lose our cool. If he has been fed a lie by those he trusts, it’s not on his intellect to dispute it.


this guy always makes false claims 
and then pretends as if he is some 5 star big shot in Indian military getting live feed of every move they make
i remember during their first surgical strike drama he was telling his fellows how Indian army used specially modified choppers and our Radars were jammed and lots of other big claims but later their own military denied use of helicopters

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## SQ8

Reichsmarschall said:


> this guy always makes false claims
> and then pretends as if he is some 5 star big shot in Indian military getting live feed of every move they make
> i remember during their first surgical strike drama he was telling his fellows how Indian army used specially modified choppers and our Radars were jammed and lots of other big claims but later their own military denied use of helicopters


We have pretenders on both sides.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Reichsmarschall

Oscar said:


> We have pretenders on both sides.


yeah thats true many PDF civilians living abroad make claims about things which even uniformed personal dont know

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GumNaam

Foxtrot Delta said:


> To be honest israeliz would be a worthy foe , indians are just too cheap and low quality people...
> But i don't think we should make new enemies we are better off at a distance from anything related to israel or middle east menace


We should keep a very close eye on the isrealis

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Tejas Spokesman said:


> NDTV reports it could Jordan supplied F-16 Block 15 ADF.
> Possible but I have some doubts about it though; as they are not AMRAAM capable and they are based far away in Bholari.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113996048060407808



Seriously? Still spreading shit? No shame left?

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## untitled

Tejas Spokesman said:


> Possible but I have some doubts about it


You don't have to believe the American report. All we ask of you is start questioning the ridiculous claims your media and sometimes government officials have made


----------



## Dazzler

By the way, adfs are amraam capable.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article14.html

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

GumNaam said:


> We should keep a very close eye on the isrealis


Yes just as they have eyes on us, suspesion is mutual their enemies are brotherly towards pakistan and our enemies are friendly towards israeliz. 

But it doesn't mean we are enemies, God Forbid Pakistan or israel ever view each other as enemies.


----------



## Major Sam

Arsalan 345 said:


> i think this dagger story might also be false.i actually trusted iaf when they said f-16 down.i am stunned.looks like they lost su-30.can russia count su-30?


You also trusted their akhnoor story. Whats that issue of trusting Indians quite more than usual?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Signalian

Dazzler said:


> By the way, adfs are amraam capable.
> 
> http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article14.html



Could you please have not spoiled the fun so early ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Asfandyar Bhittani

Dazzler said:


> Seriously? Still spreading shit? No shame left?


We live in a post truth world mate. The truth doesn't matter to these people. They know deep inside PAF humiliated them & their entire narrative is bs, but none of them, including the congress's secularists will question the IAF for blatantly lying for Modi's election campaign.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Dazzler

Signalian said:


> Could you please have not spoiled the fun so early ?


I've had enough already.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GumNaam

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Yes just as they have eyes on us, suspesion is mutual their enemies are brotherly towards pakistan and our enemies are friendly towards israeliz.
> 
> But it doesn't mean we are enemies, God Forbid Pakistan or israel ever view each other as enemies.


isrealis simply need to ditch that ill fated zionist ideology of world domination and give the Palestinians their equal rights. We have no squabbles or issues with them after this.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NA71

I pray, DG ISPR will come out and give a statement on this breaking news. He should also lay a foundation for next presser by releasing some more hints...

This would be the dual disaster for One for Modi election campaign and other for IAF. Indians are gone crazy over their own media claims & reports.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reichsmarschall

The BrOkEn HeArT said:


> Then Chinese will come up.saying " nobody can shoot their plane".


so you show them gun camera footage and prove them wrong whats stopping you?


----------



## Salza

Still no Indian has posted any comment here. Guys please tag every injun loser here when spotted. They all should be reminded of their govt, media and armed forces lies at highest level.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## untitled

The BrOkEn HeArT said:


> Then Chinese will come up.saying " nobody can shoot their plane".


What Chinese plane?


----------



## AfrazulMandal

PDFChamp said:


> Source
> 
> It would be nice if this US report puts an end to Indian nonsense claims. One more arrow in Modi's behind.
> 
> *Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.*
> *New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*
> By  Lara Seligman | April 4, 2019, 7:50 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi waves at the public rally in Kolkata, India, on April 3. (Atul Loke/Getty Images)
> 
> India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.
> 
> *The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.*
> 
> It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.
> 
> The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.
> 
> Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.
> 
> “As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”
> 
> The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.
> 
> He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.
> 
> One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.
> 
> Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.
> 
> *But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.*


I have been telling this from day 1.


----------



## untitled

Salza said:


> Still no Indian has posted any comment here. Guys please tag every injun loser here when spotted. They all should be reminded of their govt, media and armed forces lies at highest level.


2 have already posted. One dragged the Chinese and other a theory from NDTV


----------



## AfrazulMandal

PakSword said:


> Chalo bhaee... Abb kehna shuru karo ke jf 17 giraya tha...


Nonsense. 11 aircraft were lost in action on our side and none on yours. I am not counting your downed drones though.



PDFChamp said:


> Let the Indian SU-30 Counting begin.


6 to 8 missing.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## PurpleButcher

India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.

It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.

The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.

Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.

“As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”

The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.

He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.

*One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.

Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.*

*But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.*

*A second senior U.S. defense official with knowledge of the count confirmed that U.S. authorities on the ground found that no Pakistani F-16s were missing.*

Evidence suggests that Pakistan’s F-16s were involved in the battle. The remnants of a U.S.-made AIM-120 air-to-air missile was found near the site; out of all the aircraft involved, only the F-16 can shoot such a weapon.

When the incident occurred, India asked the U.S. government to investigate whether Pakistan’s use of the F-16 against India violated the terms of the foreign military sale agreements.

However, the first defense official said the agreement did not involve any terms limiting the use of the F-16s.

“It would be incredibly naive for us to believe that we could sell some type of equipment to Pakistan that they would not intend to use in a fight,” the official said.

The U.S. State Department and the Indian and Pakistani embassies declined to comment.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/0...Zzrn-qL6b6VBX1K_8k5vexbwlW8pC0ao040s1hNeYxECo

Reactions: Like Like:
20


----------



## God Parshuram

It seems that all the efforts and statements of ISPR is not enough to convince Pakistani Awam so now a news is fabricated quoting US. Still US name sales in Pakistan.


----------



## Amaa'n

Mav3rick said:


> If the news of an AIM-120C-5 fragment landing inside IoK is correct then F-16's were indeed used. Could be that the F-16's fired from 30-50 km's inside Pakistani Airspace. But then it would be very interesting to note whether the missile(s) hit any target(s) or not.


what IAF showcased was a Motor control section of the AMRAAM, it was all busted up...Radom / radar seeker is missing and and so do many other parts....going by the looks, it had hit something head one & did not just landed in their backyard.....

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Viny

Will wait before anything official comes.
Lara Seligman is another masala news seller working for various banana media.


----------



## M.AsfandYar

Viny said:


> Will wait before anything official comes.
> Lara Seligman is another masala news seller working for various banana media.


Another Gem

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## SABRE

Tejas Spokesman said:


> NDTV reports it could Jordan supplied F-16 Block 15 ADF.
> Possible but I have some doubts about it though; as they are not AMRAAM capable and they are based far away in Bholari.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113996048060407808



Any F-16 transferred from one country to another is re-registered to the new country by the US. It is held accounted for in overall numbers sold to the recipient country.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Zulfiqar

No it can't be. PAF actually borrowed soloturk's F-16 and painted it in PAF's colors. 

We are going to paint it back with Pakistani truck art using a Turkish theme.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Placemat

Ok. Agreed it does seem like India did not bring down an f16. Likely play was , pak f16 comes in along mirage . India scrambles mig21 and su30. Pak f16 fires a few at su30 but takes evasive action and missile part in India. Mig21 has one f16 locked and chases and maybe even fires. In the meantime crosses loc. F16 evades mig missile but mig is downed in Kashmir.


----------



## untitled

God Parshuram said:


> Still US name sales in Pakistan.


There is very ittle love lost between the US and Pakistan. The US has placed all its bets on India and is even willing to rebrand and sell the F16 for the IAF. Yet still they support the Pakistani version of events.

Points for you to ponder

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Amaa'n

@Mav3rick this is for your understanding

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Cuirassier

Watching these chowkidaars and Modi fanboys/girls reacting to this is epic.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Rashid Mahmood

Disgraceful coward enemy.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## untitled

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Mig21 has one f16 locked and chases and maybe even fires.


The IAF's whole victory narrative is hinged on the F16 downing claim. Take out this claim and what else is there left for the IAF to celebrate?

Reactions: Like Like:

4


----------



## Zhukov

saiyan0321 said:


> Geographical advantage is a nightmare fr opposing forces. One of the major reasons why Pakistan was able to take those High peaks in kargil without major damage ( which it would have sustained had the peaks been manned properly) is the emptiness of them. This made it a nightmare for India to dislodge Pakistan from it and they had to make multiple thrusts to pull it off suffering casualties. Even then some peaks remained under Pakistan control. just like Pakistan India is also entrenched at many advantageous positions which is why if you would study the 1965 and 1971 war you would see that Pakistan and India tried to pace the Kashmir skirmishes to the points where they held the advantage and avoided attacking places where the opposing forces were entrenched.
> 
> Modi has a very efficient media campaign and social media accounts working 24/7 feeding propaganda to the masses. I doubt he needs to do anything more. This report will barely earn a mention from some media sectors of Indian media which will then be attacked ruthlessly by other sections for being unpatriotic. By the time the elections end the Indian masses will be choking on propaganda and these findings will be ignored and forgotten completely.
> 
> As I stated before. Their media is working over time feeding to the masses that A. Pakistan is losing everywhere with internal faultlines with massive casualties and is suffering on the LOC


Our media does the same when it comes to Defense related issues. Always talking the language of the State and Army. But do we become blind followers?. I don't believe in modern age of social Media everything can be rubbed under the carpet that easy. As India don't have social media restrictions not that i know of. If still their public believe the state narrative despite being exposed to so much information then what can i say about them. God Save the world from 1 Billion Plus people with this level of IQ and having Nuclear Weapons.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NA71

God Parshuram said:


> It seems that all the efforts and statements of ISPR is not enough to convince Pakistani Awam so now a news is fabricated quoting US. Still US name sales in Pakistan.



I know it hurts.... first fake Balakot Ops now F16....

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## uzbi aka viper

Oscar said:


> Because its their national character. When you have 60+ years of the underdog and victim phenomenon imposed through media and social narrative, added with religious extremism it creates a nation so convinced of their moral high horse and their narrative that logic and truth is irrelevant.
> 
> Its like a mental patient being told of a reality they dont want to accept, a continued self deception will continue to occur.


lolz your comment reminded me of movie "shutter island".

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Placemat

member.exe said:


> The IAF's whole victory narrative hinged on the F16 downing claim. Take out this claim what else is there for the IAF to celebrate?


Nothing


----------



## Awan68

No way the american defence sector wouldve ever let this "f 16 shot down" narrative survive, they just gave a taste, i believe after Indian elections they will more openly report it. 

I remember a Canadian jet fighter program which was the most advanced of its kind in the entire world, Aero or something it was called.....The Americans pressurized the Canadian PM into shelving the program as it wouldve hit the dominance of the likes of lockheed over the global aviation arena.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Areesh

Tejas Spokesman said:


> NDTV reports it could Jordan supplied F-16 Block 15 ADF.
> Possible but I have some doubts about it though; as they are not AMRAAM capable and they are based far away in Bholari.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113996048060407808



Tell this idiot Vishnu Som that all F16 including Ex Jordanian ones are registered wih USA and they have complete record about it

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## ziaulislam

Microsoft said:


> Pakistani hologram technology!


"The print" was saying Pakistan has holograms to fake balakot

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## valkyr_96

dair se aye aap......hum ne layle unki pungi

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## war&peace

but but but but indian MiG 21 shot down F16 but we don't have evidence but but but but but butt butt butt 

And now many Indians are asking questions


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113983260282040321​@Levina @Nilgiri @Joe Shearer @Viny 
​

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## untitled

The most frightening aspect of this entire F16 affair is the speed at which this rumor started to circulate all over social media. It was as if India didn't care if it was ready for the actual battle but they definitely had a beachhead on the social media front. One can only imagine what other strategic rumors they waiting have in their arsenal

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jobless Jack

what i find worrying is how can another country count how many F 16 is operation in PAF


----------



## ziaulislam

member.exe said:


> The IAF's whole victory narrative is hinged on the F16 downing claim. Take out this claim and what else is there for the IAF to celebrate?


Getting screw


balixd said:


> am reading one of their forums and the excuses are hilarious ----
> 
> 1) Jordanians donated one eff sola
> 2) US only checked the eff - sola that were under FMS - so Jordanian eff-sola were not inspected
> 3) We downed JF17 since digital signature is similar to eff-16 and and IAF got mistaken
> 4) Sherdils has jordanian eff-sola US never checked those
> 
> ....kaisay kar lete ho ye sab yar


"Pakistan made a replica to fool usa like they build replics building in balakot to fool satellite"

is the most common argument

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## SABRE

Are the kabootars accounted for? That's what worries me the most.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pied Piper

Salaam! 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/

*Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.*
*New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*

LARA SELIGMAN

APRIL 4, 2019
_





Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi waves at the public rally in Kolkata, India, on April 3. (Atul Loke/Getty Images) 
India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told Foreign Policy that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.

It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.

The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.

Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.

“As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”

The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.

He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.

One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.

Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.

But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.

A second senior U.S. defense official with knowledge of the count confirmed that U.S. authorities on the ground found that no Pakistani F-16s were missing.

Evidence suggests that Pakistan’s F-16s were involved in the battle. The remnants of a U.S.-made AIM-120 air-to-air missile was found near the site; out of all the aircraft involved, only the F-16 can shoot such a weapon.

When the incident occurred, India askedthe U.S. government to investigate whether Pakistan’s use of the F-16 against India violated the terms of the foreign military sale agreements.

However, the first defense official said the agreement did not involve any terms limiting the use of the F-16s.

“It would be incredibly naive for us to believe that we could sell some type of equipment to Pakistan that they would not intend to use in a fight,” the official said.

The U.S. State Department and the Indian and Pakistani embassies declined to comment.
_


----------



## Samlee

I Wonder What Endians Have To Say Now????

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## N.Siddiqui

...the last few para's were not included in the original posted article, this is the missing part. 


*Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.*
*New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*


A second senior U.S. defense official with knowledge of the count confirmed that U.S. authorities on the ground found that no Pakistani F-16s were missing.

Evidence suggests that Pakistan’s F-16s were involved in the battle. The remnants of a U.S.-made AIM-120 air-to-air missile was found near the site; out of all the aircraft involved, only the F-16 can shoot such a weapon.

When the incident occurred, India asked the U.S. government to investigate whether Pakistan’s use of the F-16 against India violated the terms of the foreign military sale agreements.

However, the first defense official said the agreement did not involve any terms limiting the use of the F-16s.

“It would be incredibly naive for us to believe that we could sell some type of equipment to Pakistan that they would not intend to use in a fight,” the official said.

The U.S. State Department and the Indian and Pakistani embassies declined to comment.


https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/


----------



## kamranofficial

US defense officials have debunked India’s claim that it shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial dogfight between the two sides in February.

Two senior US defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told Foreign Policy magazine that US personnel recently counted Pakistan’s F-16s and found none missing.

The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by Pakistan Air Force, the publication states.

The count, conducted by US authorities on the ground in Pakistan, casts doubt on India’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day, it adds.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113956733184086016According to Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, the details look worse and worse for India, just days before the start of the general elections there.

“As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Foreign Policy quoted Narang as saying. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”

One of the senior US defense officials said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalised.

The count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.

Tensions soared between India and Pakistan in the aftermath of the February 14 suicide bombing in Pulwama, occupied Kashmir.

India piled the blame for Pulwama bombing on Pakistan without presenting any proof. The allegations were strongly refuted by Pakistan.

In response, India said it carried out on February 26 air strikes on what it called a militant training camp at Balakot inside Pakistan.

The Indian government was quick to take credit for a “successful" airstrike and put the death toll to over 300. Pakistani officials, as well as the locals, rejected the claims, inviting local and international media to visit the site of the so-called attack where around a dozen trees were the only “casualty”.

The Pakistan Air Force, in retaliatory action, downed two Indian aircraft the next day, capturing Indian Wing Commander Abhinandan who was then released as a peace gesture by Pakistan. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113953682020864000

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pied Piper

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/4...down-pakistans-f-16-proved-false-us-officials




search




*India's claim of shooting down Pakistan's F-16 false: US*
National
Web Desk
April 05,2019


The US defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told Foreign Policy that US personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

ShareNext Story >>>

_




*KARACHI: India’s claims of shooting down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle during the February standoff between the two nuclear powers have been debunked by the US Defence officials, Foreign Policy Magazine reported on Thursday.*

The US officials with direct knowledge of the situation told the Foreign Policy that US personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

According to the report, all the claims of Indian civil and military leadership appeared to be wrong as the count, conducted by US authorities on the ground in Pakistan negated New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.



*Related Stories*_

_No F-16 was hit by Indian Air Force on Feb 27, Pakistan Military refutes repeated Indian claims_
_‘Question of downing 2 Indian jets by F-16 or JF-17 meaningless’_
_

It is widely believed that the Modi government's claim to down Pak jet in February 27 dogfight was made to gain political mileage. The Indian opposition parties too accused Prime Minister Narendra Modi of exaggerating the event to improve its image in the upcoming elections.

It is pertinent to note that, Pakistan had shot down two Indian aircraft violating its airspace and captured pilot Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, who was later released as a gesture of peace.

The report, authored by magazine’s Pentagon Correspondent Lara Seligman, stated that it is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit.

However, the assessment of the Feb 27 events by the concerned US officials, confirmed that no Pakistani aircraft was hit.

They also concluded that Pakistan did use F-16s that day. Pakistan military spokesperson, Major General Asif Ghafoor, in an interview has confirmed that all Pakistani jets were airborne during fight with India.

On question of Pakistan’s violation of end-user agreement with US, the Penagon official told Seligman that the agreement did not involve any terms limiting the use of the F-16s.

“It would be incredibly naive for us to believe that we could sell some type of equipment to Pakistan that they would not intend to use in a fight,” the official said.

Pakistan itself invited the US to count the planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized, the report said.

Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow US officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.

Terming the revelation damaging for the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.

“As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”
_

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## saiyan0321

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> Our media does the same when it comes to Defense related issues. Always talking the language of the State and Army. But do we become blind followers?. I don't believe in modern age of social Media everything can be rubbed under the carpet that easy. As India don't have social media restrictions not that i know of. If still their public believe the state narrative despite being exposed to so much information then what can i say about them. God Save the world from 1 Billion Plus people with this level of IQ and having Nuclear Weapons.



We are alot more critical both social media and every day lot. Even our media is very critical. our military operations both past and current have achieved a fair level of criticism and skepticism from analysts on talk shows to articles in papers. We are not bombarded with a single narrative but are home to several critical narratives. I am not saying its all great as we have a plathora of problems as well in our media but we are not even close to the propaganda machines in our neighbor.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## BetterPakistan

Middle finger to Indians by US lol

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

lies, ve painted a JF17 ib f16 colors and phooled everyone that came to count the jahaaz


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

should be an eye-opener for their jahil pubic tht beleives every bs trown at em. Now india needs to account for its 2nd plane.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sharky

I got called as anti national when I posted the same in one of my WhatsApp group long time back. Bhakts are truly low IQ'ed inbreds. One even told me he is coming with a gun to finish me off. .

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## saiyan0321

Signalian said:


> By-pass peaks strongholds and bunkers on peaks. circumvent and cut off rear. Not every peak has entrenched enemy on it. There are many peaks with nominal presence or just observation posts. Use of artillery and Air Force helps assaulting troops, this was seen in Kargil. It's not really static warfare. In future wars, helicopters will play a major role in assaulting, reinforcing, supplying and capturing peaks. Not proper Gunships maybe, but transport helicopters. It will also be important to take on roads and cross roads, bridges and peaks over looking highways. The further north we go, manning posts becomes more difficult, in fact the density of troops starts to decrease also and eventually becomes minimal around Siachen area due to climate and geography. The use of Air Force becomes n



Indeed. Even now post kargil many posts on higher altitudes are abandoned by both sides during winter. Deployment in such weather is simply not possible. The study of geography thus plays a crucial role in planning and defending areas and many areas between pakista and India are basically geographical fortresses. 



Signalian said:


> The use of Air Force becomes necessary to dislodge enemy troops from peaks and interdiction missions become more important to deny the enemy from reinforcing or counter attacking any captured peak. Road transport system is very slow in mountainous terrain and width of roads matters as well as tonnage of supply that cargo trucks can haul.



Agreed Air presence and air defence will play a future role in LOC which is why its imperative that Pakistan builds its air defence and air force arsenal to protect the areas under it. A string air defence is worth equal to any army. We have seen with wars being fought thousands of miles away in many terrains which would not accommodate a ground army being fought with the help of an air force. Air force may help man tackle the limitation of geography.



Signalian said:


> before, IAF has had good experience in Kargil and nearby sectors. Most of the experience that PAF has shown in conducting strikes in mountainous terrain is on the western border.



There is a world of difference between the stormy cold mountains of the north and dry mountains ad caverns of the west.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Secret Service

Now Indians are saying it is not an official statement by US government. Just wondering, how many proofs you need.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Sharky said:


> I got called as anti national when I posted the same in one of my WhatsApp group long time back. Bhakts are truly low IQ'ed inbreds. One even told me he is coming with a gun to finish me off. .


bhai ji, avoid posting /responding to sensitive topics on phone apps. Its easier to track a person and all have families. Stay safe.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Secret Service

Sharky said:


> I got called as anti national when I posted the same in one of my WhatsApp group long time back. Bhakts are truly low IQ'ed inbreds. One even told me he is coming with a gun to finish me off. .


You are a Desh Drohi...


----------



## Kambojaric

Wonder how the BJP will spin this story now. I am sure they will find a way of making the BJP Bakhts happy. If logic fails they usually resort to vedic science!


----------



## Areesh

CyclopS said:


> Cover ups have happened before and that too on top of the food chain, both in pakistan and US.
> 
> *Exclusive Friendly fire downs Pakistani F-16; U.S. in a coverup*
> ByRICHARD SALE
> WASHINGTON -- A Pakistan Air Force F-16 accidentally shot down a companion F-16 previously reported to have been hit by a Soviet-made missile last May during combat over Afghanistan -- and U.S. officials assisted in the coverup, administration officials said Saturday.
> 
> 'It was pilot error,' a U.S. intelligence source said of the jet fighter's loss.
> 
> Pakistan's attempt to cover up the accident was assisted by some Pentagon and State Department officials who felt the false report of a Soviet 'kill' might help promote Pakistan's bid to acquire sophisticated U.S.-made AWACS radar airplanes, administration sources told United Press International.
> 
> However, Pakistan first concocted the story primarily to 'save face' and prevent any embarrassment of its Air Force, which has created an F-16 craze among the Pakistani people, they said.
> 
> Asked about the disclosure that the plane was downed by friendly fire, a defense official at Pakistan's Washington embassy said, 'This we do not know because we have no links with our Air Force Department.' He declined further comment.
> 
> https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/0...Pakistani-F-16-US-in-a-coverup/8251553579200/



In that case at least a F16 was shot down and we had a wreckage. Who shot it down can be debated.

While in this case we only have whatsapp forwards. No wreckage. No footage. No nothing



Sharky said:


> One even told me he is coming with a gun to finish me off. .



WTF!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## UniverseWatcher

Lmao July/18/1987......I think you created this account just for trolling purposes....


CyclopS said:


> Cover ups have happened before and that too on top of the food chain, both in pakistan and US.
> 
> *Exclusive Friendly fire downs Pakistani F-16; U.S. in a coverup*
> ByRICHARD SALE
> WASHINGTON -- A Pakistan Air Force F-16 accidentally shot down a companion F-16 previously reported to have been hit by a Soviet-made missile last May during combat over Afghanistan -- and U.S. officials assisted in the coverup, administration officials said Saturday.
> 
> 'It was pilot error,' a U.S. intelligence source said of the jet fighter's loss.
> 
> *Pakistan's attempt to cover up the accident was assisted by some Pentagon and State Department officials *who felt the false report of a Soviet 'kill' might help promote Pakistan's bid to acquire sophisticated U.S.-made AWACS radar airplanes, administration sources told United Press International.
> 
> However, *Pakistan first concocted the story primarily to 'save face' and prevent any embarrassment of its Air Force*, which has created an F-16 craze among the Pakistani people, they said.
> 
> Asked about the disclosure that the plane was downed by friendly fire, a defense official at Pakistan's Washington embassy said, 'This we do not know because we have no links with our Air Force Department.' He declined further comment.
> 
> https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/0...Pakistani-F-16-US-in-a-coverup/8251553579200/

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## saiyan0321

Kambojaric said:


> Wonder how the BJP will spin this story now. I am sure they will find a way of making the BJP Bakhts happy. If logic fails they usually resort to vedic science!



Already on the way. Jordanian allies and their F16 Screw registration numbers, sale numbers and serial numbers...

Back up is also prepared. US cover up. Don't want F16 sales to go down.

The second conspiracy theory beats the " Jews are the reason behind pakistan inflation conspiracy theory" its that messed up.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Imran Khan

Usa ne bhi modi or iaf ki pant utaar di hahahah

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oruc

In your face ...... rondoooos


----------



## Imran Khan

India should say we shot down jf17

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

Ohh boy they are doomed

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Maxpane

it was jf 17

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## alee92nawaz

what will indians do without the F-16 lolipop


----------



## Axis Of Logic

Kashmir media is trolling Indians at another level.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## PakShaheen79

How many threads we are going to open for this topic?


----------



## alee92nawaz

PurpleButcher said:


> India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.
> 
> The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.
> 
> It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.
> 
> The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.
> 
> Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.
> 
> “As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”
> 
> The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.
> 
> He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.
> 
> *One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.
> 
> Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.*
> 
> *But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.*
> 
> *A second senior U.S. defense official with knowledge of the count confirmed that U.S. authorities on the ground found that no Pakistani F-16s were missing.*
> 
> Evidence suggests that Pakistan’s F-16s were involved in the battle. The remnants of a U.S.-made AIM-120 air-to-air missile was found near the site; out of all the aircraft involved, only the F-16 can shoot such a weapon.
> 
> When the incident occurred, India asked the U.S. government to investigate whether Pakistan’s use of the F-16 against India violated the terms of the foreign military sale agreements.
> 
> However, the first defense official said the agreement did not involve any terms limiting the use of the F-16s.
> 
> “It would be incredibly naive for us to believe that we could sell some type of equipment to Pakistan that they would not intend to use in a fight,” the official said.
> 
> The U.S. State Department and the Indian and Pakistani embassies declined to comment.
> 
> https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/0...Zzrn-qL6b6VBX1K_8k5vexbwlW8pC0ao040s1hNeYxECo


Jai mata di

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rollno21

I am running short of time ,can some one tell the name of the source or the name of the official .


----------



## Mugwop

Samlee said:


> I Wonder What Endians Have To Say Now????


Some new B.S story, If they put that much effort into their movies they could be less boring and not predictable.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## alibaz

PurpleButcher said:


> India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.
> 
> The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.
> 
> *It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit.* But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.
> 
> The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.
> 
> Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.
> 
> “As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”
> 
> The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.
> 
> He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.
> 
> *One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.
> 
> Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.*
> 
> *But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.*
> 
> *A second senior U.S. defense official with knowledge of the count confirmed that U.S. authorities on the ground found that no Pakistani F-16s were missing.*
> 
> Evidence suggests that Pakistan’s F-16s were involved in the battle. The remnants of a U.S.-made AIM-120 air-to-air missile was found near the site; out of all the aircraft involved, only the F-16 can shoot such a weapon.
> 
> When the incident occurred, India asked the U.S. government to investigate whether Pakistan’s use of the F-16 against India violated the terms of the foreign military sale agreements.
> 
> However, the first defense official said the agreement did not involve any terms limiting the use of the F-16s.
> 
> “It would be incredibly naive for us to believe that we could sell some type of equipment to Pakistan that they would not intend to use in a fight,” the official said.
> 
> The U.S. State Department and the Indian and Pakistani embassies declined to comment.
> 
> https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/0...Zzrn-qL6b6VBX1K_8k5vexbwlW8pC0ao040s1hNeYxECo



How can he have this doubt once none of his missiles and gun rounds were fired and were recovered. He may have got a lock in a simulator or video game.


----------



## Mugwop

They still won't be convinced even if ram himself tells them no f-16 was shot down.
There's a saying in Pakistan about a dog's tail and it applies to them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Rollno21 said:


> I am running short of time ,can some one tell the name of the source or the name of the official .


Ask Ms Seligman 
https://twitter.com/laraseligman?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PakSword

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Ok. Agreed it does seem like India did not bring down an f16. Likely play was , pak f16 comes in along mirage . India scrambles mig21 and su30. Pak f16 fires a few at su30 but takes evasive action and missile part in India. Mig21 has one f16 locked and chases and maybe even fires. In the meantime crosses loc. F16 evades mig missile but mig is downed in Pakistani occupied area.


Question is: two additional pilots who ejected that day were riding which jet(s)? I believe 2 JF17s


----------



## Riz

Imran Khan said:


> India should say we shot down jf17


Now they are saying pak bought that F-16 directly from Jordan

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## MimophantSlayer

Areesh said:


> In that case at least a F16 was shot down and we had a wreckage. Who shot it down can be debated.
> 
> While in this case we only have whatsapp forwards. No wreckage. No footage. No nothing
> 
> 
> 
> WTF!!!



Strawman argument, the crux of the issue here is that both pakistan & US authorities were covering something up and the former changed statements multiple times just like now.

Also, the wreckage was found in Afghanistan as well, making it nigh impossible for pakistan to deny the downing of the F-16, in this case however the entirety of the F-16 was shot down in pakistani side.

Either way, we are still engulfed in the fog of war & the events won't be clear until after a few months or even years.


----------



## Shardils

US foreign policy magazine confirms that none of Pakistan F16 downed by India. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Be izzati.

Good luck with elections.


----------



## Stealth

Pentagon Lashes out India’s claim

Simple u can’t take on Nuclear Armed country with 0.7 M active fighting force who is continously fighting a 4th and 5th Gen wars from past 20 years where as many in Indian Army bcme a commander and even retired without fighting a single war from past two decades. Indian armed forces are no where near to fight direct war with Pakistani military that is what entire world and armed forces of different countries knew very well. The game of months and months is over. The strategy of engagement is changed in the modern battlefields. Buying expensive weapons wont give you any edge, how much you are expert to engage your enemy tactically and smart use of your inventory is a art of modern war. The current Pakistani armed forces, the level of experience, military gadgets, hardware is par with India thats what many sane India defence experts says as well. Pakistan has enuff capability to strike down any conventional and non-conventional conflict and India technically not capable to sustain the response. Just to sent a msg and show-off capability and capacity (silently and loudly awknowldged by many def and security experts), instead of cowardly choose night time, Pakistan entered into the Indian airspace in a broad day light and use stand-off weapons like H series against the Indian military installations its not a foking joke. Next day detecting India’s stealth subs was basically “Kah kar lena” like DG says. Entire India’s defence was literally sitting duck position when PAF rolling over and inside Indian borders. Not even dare to confornt Pakistani airforce fighters even PAF was on their radars. According to Pwani Sowhney (India’s def expert and aud Mag FORCE, the message to our (Indian armed forces) was very clear, Pakis damn care about our so called defence, they did not detter with our 4th largest military. Enterring into our space, bomb our installations when the Bipin and Western command brigade was busy in the meeting of exactly close to the same installation in the broad day light actually exposed our strength and drama of Surgical Strikes 2016 /Airstrikes 2019.... they knw everything. Pakistani intelligence network inside India (Know-how of our mil positions, our chief meetings, our capacity), we must admit instead of making fool to our people, Pakis bluff out our so called defence in front of the world”

How pathetic and unprofessional Tri-Chief of so called 4th largest military holding AIM and making fooled to their janta kay hamnay F16 girya hay now the US Govt Officials who had direct info and knwldge about PAF assets told, “No PAF F16 is missing “. Mr Rona Dhaona should be sack such unprofessional and incompetent chief we have evr seen of any armed force... this is height of...... I mean how any professional force became a tool of govt politics amazing ... amazing... never seen such thing anywhere in the world... these Tri chief must be sack!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## waz

PDFChamp said:


> Source
> 
> It would be nice if this US report puts an end to Indian nonsense claims. One more arrow in Modi's behind.
> 
> *Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.*
> *New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*
> By  Lara Seligman | April 4, 2019, 7:50 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi waves at the public rally in Kolkata, India, on April 3. (Atul Loke/Getty Images)
> 
> India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.
> 
> *The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.*
> 
> It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.
> 
> The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.
> 
> Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.
> 
> “As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”
> 
> The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.
> 
> He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.
> 
> One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.
> 
> Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.
> 
> *But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.*




Hahahaha where is the stupid India media now? Where’s that moron Modi? Last but not least where are the Indian posters who still insisted that an F-16 had been down just yesterday?
What a pathetic state these folks are in.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Reichsmarschall

Rollno21 said:


> I am running short of time ,can some one tell the name of the source or the name of the official .


pentagon is the source
article was written by Pentagon Correspondent for @foreignpolicy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## N.Siddiqui

*All of Pakistan's F-16 jets accounted for by US personnel, contradicting Indian claims: report*






United States (US) officials did a count of Islamabad's F-16 jets recently and found that none were missing, contradicting India's claims that it shot down a Pakistani fighter jet amid heightened tensions between both countries after the Pulwama attack, a Foreign Policy report quoting two senior US defence officials said on Friday.

Following the conflict between the two countries in February, India had claimed that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had used the F-16 to target Indian military installations after crossing the Line of Control. As "proof", a piece of an apparent missile was shown, which Indian media said could only have been fired by an F-16.

_Read more: 2 Indian aircraft violating Pakistani airspace shot down; pilot arrested_

It also claimed that before an Indian plane was shot down and its pilot captured by Pakistani forces, an Indian Air Force (IAF) MiG Bison had shot down a PAF F-16 aircraft. Pakistan had denied the Indian claims.

New Delhi had also insisted that Pakistan’s alleged use of F-16 against India meant that Islamabad stood in violation of a sales agreement with the US. The US State Department had refused to take a position on India's complaint against Pakistan over using F-16s in the air battle.

_Read more: Foreign journalists find holes in Indian narrative on F-16 usage, Balakot strike_

According to the report, one of the unnamed senior US defence officials "with direct knowledge of the count" had told _Foreign Policy_ that Pakistan had invited the US to count its F-16 planes after the incident "as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalised", the report said.

_Foreign Policy_ added that Washington generally requires countries it strikes such agreements with to allow US officials to inspect equipment on a regular basis and to ensure that it is accounted for and safe.

The official explained that some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection after the Pak-India back-and-forth, so it took US personnel a few weeks to account for all the jets.

_Find out more: Villagers near Balakot say nobody killed or injured by Indian aircraft_

An associate professor of political science at MIT, Vipin Narang, told FP that although the news likely won't affect Indian voters, it may affect Delhi's dealings with Pakistan in the future.

"As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians," Narang said. "It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process."

https://www.dawn.com/news/1474086/a...-personnel-contradicting-indian-claims-report

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## usman012

No , India shot down 24 F-16 .


----------



## N.Siddiqui

*US Count Found No Pak F-16s Missing, Contradicts India's Claim: Report

বাংলায় পড়ুনहिंदी में पढ़ें
The Indian Air Force had displayed pieces of the AMRAAM missile, fired by a Pakistani F-16, as evidence. But that, by itself, does not offer any clues on whether Abhinandan Varthaman had shot down a Pakistan Air Force F-16.
*
Edited by Deepshikha Ghosh | Updated: April 05, 2019 10:25 IST

SHARE
EMAIL
Foreign Policy has claimed in a report quoting unnamed US defense officials. "Two senior US defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told Foreign Policy that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad's F-16s and found none missing," the publication says in a report published on Thursday.

The government had said that in an aerial duel on February 27 - a day after India sent fighter jets to Pakistan's Balakot to strike a terror training camp - Indian Air Force pilot Abhinandan Varthaman had engaged with one of the Pakistani fighter jets that tried to target Indian military facilities and shot it down before he was hit and forced to eject. Abhinandan Varthaman landed across the Line of Control and was in Pakistani custody for three days before he was returned to India amid attempts to de-escalate the crisis between the two sides.

The Indian Air Force had on February 28 displayed pieces of the AMRAAM missile, fired by a Pakistani F-16, as evidence. But that, by itself, does not offer any clues on whether Abhinandan Varthaman had shot down a Pakistan Air Force F-16, as has been repeatedly claimed by the government and the IAF.

According to the Foreign Policy magazine, Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized.

"A US count of Pakistan's F-16 fleet has found that all the jets are present and accounted for, a direct contradiction to India's claim that it shot down one of the fighter jets during a February clash," Lara Seligman of the magazine reports.

The count has been completed, and "all aircraft were present and accounted for", an unnamed official is quoted as saying.

"It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi's version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day," says Foreign Policy.

The report comes days before voting starts for the April-May national election. Prime Minister Narendra Modi and other top BJP leaders have been accused by the opposition of using the Balakot air strike, which was in response to the February 14 Pulwama terror attack, in their campaign speeches.

India Today, the Defence Minister, Nirmala Sitharaman had said: ''We are definitely saying that an F-16 was knocked out by us and initially, the Pakistan Prime Minister claimed that two pilots were with them. One of the pilots was ours and returned as per the norms. Who is the other pilot?''


https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-...reign-policy-report-2018244?pfrom=home-livetv

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114014359477469184

واشنگٹن: (دنیا نیوز) مودی سرکار کی ایک اور ہار، ایف 16 مار گرانے کا بھارتی جھوٹ بے نقاب ہوگیا۔ امریکی حکام نے تصدیق کی ہے کہ پاکستان کا کوئی طیارے غائب نہیں، سب پاکستان کے پاس موجود ہیں۔ 


فارن پالیسی میگزین کی ایک رپورٹ نے بھارت کو شٹ اپ کال دے دی۔ رپورٹ میں امریکی حکام کے حوالے سے کہا گیا ہے کہ بھارت نے پاکستان کا کوئی بھی طیارہ نہیں گرایا۔


فارن پالیسی میگزین کی ایک رپورٹ کے مطابق پاکستان نے امریکی اہلکاروں کو آکر ایف 16 گننے کی پیشکش کی تھی جس کے بعد امریکی اہلکاروں نے پاکستان کے ایف 16 طیارے گنے ہیں اور ان کی تعداد پوری ہے۔


امریکی عہدے داروں نے فارن پالیسی کو بتایا کہ بھارت نے جھوٹ بول کر عالمی برادری کو گمراہ کیا، ایف سولہ گرانے کا بھارتی دعویٰ جھوٹ پر مبنی ہے۔ امریکی حکام کے مطابق پاکستان پر ایف 16 طیاروں کو استعمال کرنے پر کوئی پابندی نہیں۔



یاد رہے بھارتی انتخابات سے صرف ایک ہفتہ پہلے نریندر مودی حکومت کا یہ ایک اور پول کھلا ہے۔



http://dunya.com.pk/index.php/dunya-headline/485526_1#.XKbZI6RS_IU

*Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.*
*New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*




India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.

It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.

The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.

Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.

“As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”

The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.

He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.

One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.

Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.

But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.


https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NA71

F16 news now becoming twitter top trend worldwide.


----------



## SABRE

Riz said:


> Now they are saying pak bought that F-16 directly from Jordan



The Jordanian theory is absolutely lame. American export rules are very stringent. No F-16s transaction without US approval can take place. If the US approves, the F-16s are registered to the new recipient country and that country is liable to US export control laws. The US will count them amongst the overall fleet of the recipient country. Much like in Pakistan's case the Jordan's F-16s would be counted on a future date by the US as well, but unrelated to this situation. If they find such a transaction took place without their approval it would lead them to impose an embargo on both Jordan and Pakistan. Neither country can risk that. From what I have heard they don't just count 1, 2, 3, ... they thoroughly examine the aircraft, its engines, avionics, etc., make sure the serial numbers are congruent with sales item. 

Lastly, why would Pakistan acquire F-16s from Jordan for this conflict when we have our own that are quite capable of taking care of the IAF? Makes no sense.

If Jordan sold anything to us directly then show us the evidence.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## war&peace

Jobless Jack said:


> what i find worrying is how can another country count how many F 16 is operation in PAF


1+2

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Joe Shearer

PDFChamp said:


> @Joe Shearer, hey old pal, who called who's bluff? It's about time GoI decided to do right by Kashmiris.



Without wreckage on the ground, nobody can prove anything for sure.

Two lots of wreckage have been videotaped and circulated widely - by Pakistani sources, not Indian. 

India has one aircraft to account for, and it has been accounted for. 

It is possible that the second wreck was a UFO. I sincerely hope you are not in the habit of reading aloud to yourself.


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113974919325470722
I can predict threats of rape will be made against her! among other vulgarity.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## PakSword

Joe Shearer said:


> Two lots of wreckage have been videotaped and circulated widely - by Pakistani sources, not Indian.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PakSword

Rollno21 said:


> I am running short of time ,can some one tell the name of the source or the name of the official .


Col. Robert Shazazuddin

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## ziaulislam

Joe Shearer said:


> Without wreckage on the ground, nobody can prove anything for sure.
> 
> Two lots of wreckage have been videotaped and circulated widely - by Pakistani sources, not Indian.
> 
> India has one aircraft to account for, and it has been accounted for.
> 
> It is possible that the second wreck was a UFO. I sincerely hope you are not in the habit of reading aloud to yourself.


none of those look like an f16..straight forward mig21 in and out

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oruc

Starlord said:


> Am I the only one here noticing that its been 5 Pages and there hasn't been any Indian Poster Posted some BS here ? Where are all the Indians ? cooking up some story ?


Indians have gone fifth generation stealth mode.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Mutakalim

It's a conspiracy against Maha supa pawa Bharat.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ziaulislam

to summarize
1. india stroke 50km inside Pakistan via israeil based spike guided SOW with range of 100 km
2. india missed (proven via satellite imaging)either willingly or through miscalculation, seeing it was systematic error it looks it was a mistake
3. one mi17 was shot down likley by IAF itself
4. one mig 21 shot down by pakistan with captured pilot paraded infront of the world and than released for deescalation
5. pakistan achieved it deescalation and deterrence objective by replying to a strike
6. IAF was unable to punish Pakistan aggression
7. only PAF loss the f16 was proven to be false, IAF thus lied on two occations, serious creating doubts on india denial whther indeed a second plan was shot down by pakistan or was it just 1

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## valkyr_96

CyclopS said:


> Strawman argument, the crux of the issue here is that both pakistan & US authorities were covering something up and the former changed statements multiple times just like now.
> 
> Also, the wreckage was found in Afghanistan as well, making it nigh impossible for pakistan to deny the downing of the F-16, in this case however the entirety of the F-16 was shot down in pakistani side.
> 
> Either way, we are still engulfed in the fog of war & the events won't be clear until after a few months or even years.


 There was no cover up the pilot's son is on this very forum and has posted about this.


----------



## Shane

war&peace said:


> but but but but indian MiG 21 shot down F16 but we don't evidence but but but but but butt butt butt
> 
> And now many Indians are asking questions
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113983260282040321
> ​


So the nose stands not just bloodied but is proven to have been altogether obliterated by PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## war&peace

Samlee said:


> I Wonder What Endians Have To Say Now????


They will try to divert the discussion to economy, FATF or ASAT test

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## crankthatskunk

The Indian's reputation is in tatters, the reputed Foreign Policy magazine has reported that all Pakistan's F16 are counted for. PAF presented the entire stock of its F16 to the Americans and all of them are in fine conditions. 

*New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*
BY LARA SELIGMAN | APRIL 4, 2019, 7:50 PM

India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.

It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.

The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.

Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.

“As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”

The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.

He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.

One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.

Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.

But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

Rollno21 said:


> I am running short of time ,can some one tell the name of the source or the name of the official .


get some shame and stop lie @Rollno21

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## crankthatskunk

It is utter shame for the Indian media, all its politicians and the Indian idiots who were asking the proofs of F16 shooting down by IAF on this forum. 

How can we forget day long transmissions of Indian TV Channels that how great a hero AbhiNonedone is that he shot down a F 16 with a Mig 21. 

#FakeIndia

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Areesh

CyclopS said:


> Strawman argument, the crux of the issue here is that both pakistan & US authorities were covering something up and the former changed statements multiple times just like now.
> 
> Also, the wreckage was found in Afghanistan as well, making it nigh impossible for pakistan to deny the downing of the F-16, in this case however the entirety of the F-16 was shot down in pakistani side.
> 
> Either way, we are still engulfed in the fog of war & the events won't be clear until after a few months or even years.



The crux of the matter is you have *ZERO *proof of your claim

Suck it or show the proof

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Smarana Mitra

There were already images of F16 given. The F16 is from Jordan 2nd hand. All USA supplied F16 are intact

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ziaulislam

seems india media is accepting what daddy is saying
https://www.thequint.com/news/india/india-might-not-have-shot-paks-f-16-us-after-counting-pak-jets


----------



## Amaa'n

Lets ask IAF, where is the Warhead , unlike in our case R73 archer motor control was still attached to the Pylon of Mig21....whats for IAF to show?

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
14


----------



## Tejas Spokesman

balixd said:


> Lets ask IAF, where is the Warhead , unlike in our case R73 archer motor control was still attached to the Pylon of Mig21....whats for IAF to show?
> View attachment 551358
> View attachment 551359
> View attachment 551360
> View attachment 551361


Warhead exploded after hitting chaff


----------



## war&peace

Kambojaric said:


> Wonder how the BJP will spin this story now. I am sure they will find a way of making the BJP Bakhts happy. If logic fails they usually resort to vedic science!


Let's see how much mileage they can get out of ASAT ... or try some escalation again with Pakistan because Bhangis are already at the lowest of happiness index of 140 (prev. year 134)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tiger Awan

India could have claimed that they brought down a JF-17 via a Mig-21 and that Chinese technology is shit and that 1960's Mig-21 is better than JF-17. It would have been a better story and American media would have loved it. Pakistan would have not been able to present a third party proof to counter such a lie. Instead they went for a F-16 and are getting humiliated every day

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JonAsad

Ahamdolillah ...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Amaa'n

Tejas Spokesman said:


> Warhead exploded after hitting chaff


it's a Radar seeker bhai not Heat Seaker

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## iPhone

Starlord said:


> Am I the only one here noticing that its been 5 Pages and there hasn't been any Indian Poster Posted some BS here ? Where are all the Indians ? cooking up some story ?


Na, ever since feb 27 they’re gone man. I’m not talking one or two stragglers that pop up every now then. I remember they used to come out here in hordes, esp during the Zardari and NS times when bombings and targeted killing was norm in Pakistan, all you saw was Indians here posting and starting threads. It’s been a month and a half it’s just radio silence over here.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## farhan_9909

Indians ki zakham ek baat pir sey taza ho gaye

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## crankthatskunk

*The conditions of GoI, IAF, Indian media right now*:

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## alphibeti

crankthatskunk said:


> The Indian's reputation is in tatters, the reputed Foreign Policy magazine has reported that all Pakistan's F16 are counted for. PAF presented the entire stock of its F16 to the Americans and all of them are in fine conditions.
> 
> *New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*
> BY LARA SELIGMAN | APRIL 4, 2019, 7:50 PM
> 
> India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.
> 
> The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.
> 
> It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.
> 
> The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.
> 
> Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.
> 
> “As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”
> 
> The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.
> 
> He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.
> 
> One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.
> 
> Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.
> 
> But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.
> 
> https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/


Oh man, disgrace is hitting Modi again and again. Shameless lies by Indians after 27/2 are bound to haunt them. More disgrace and humiliation is waiting for criminal Modi and liar Indians. Downed SU-30 is chasing Modi. And Indians are relying on lies and more lies to dodge it. But it'll hit its intended target sooner than later when the actual footage (or may be parts of it) come out. Indians are getting humiliated on daily basis. These idiots wanted to set a new norm (to hit Pakistan at will) and now find their head stuck in sh!t. They deserve it all.


----------



## koolio

Does India have any shame left?? They have to lie 100 times to cover up 1 lie.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SABRE

Even Bilawal is trolling.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114071724193140736
Wish Khwaja Asif would repeat his infamous line, "_Koi haya hoti hay_ ..." for this

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mig hunter

Smarana Mitra said:


> There were already images of F16 given. The F16 is from Jordan 2nd hand. All USA supplied F16 are intact


Here we go again....


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Now it's all done and dusted, let Russia count for the inventory of SU30s MKIs of Indian airforce. 

India must open up now and let the count of its inventory begin.


----------



## lutfishah

Smarana Mitra said:


> There were already images of F16 given. The F16 is from Jordan 2nd hand. All USA supplied F16 are intact


Whatever floats your boat. But the problem is that there are holes in your boat and so you are sinking.

Best thing is to either be quiet or bring a solid proof. The fact is that no F16s were downed and all proofs are going against Bharat.


----------



## Peaceful Civilian

It is not easy to down F16s. F16 always come on top when fighting against Russian fighter jets, just not long time ago turkish F16 shot down russian fighter jet.


----------



## Wow

i dont know why we even bother

a nation that believes hey can cross the kill half the population of sialkot cannot be reason with

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## alphibeti

Pied Piper said:


> Salaam!
> 
> https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/
> 
> *Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.*
> *New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*
> 
> LARA SELIGMAN
> 
> APRIL 4, 2019
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi waves at the public rally in Kolkata, India, on April 3. (Atul Loke/Getty Images)
> India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told Foreign Policy that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.
> 
> The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.
> 
> It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.
> 
> The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.
> 
> Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.
> 
> “As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”
> 
> The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.
> 
> He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.
> 
> One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.
> 
> Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.
> 
> But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.
> 
> A second senior U.S. defense official with knowledge of the count confirmed that U.S. authorities on the ground found that no Pakistani F-16s were missing.
> 
> Evidence suggests that Pakistan’s F-16s were involved in the battle. The remnants of a U.S.-made AIM-120 air-to-air missile was found near the site; out of all the aircraft involved, only the F-16 can shoot such a weapon.
> 
> When the incident occurred, India askedthe U.S. government to investigate whether Pakistan’s use of the F-16 against India violated the terms of the foreign military sale agreements.
> 
> However, the first defense official said the agreement did not involve any terms limiting the use of the F-16s.
> 
> “It would be incredibly naive for us to believe that we could sell some type of equipment to Pakistan that they would not intend to use in a fight,” the official said.
> 
> The U.S. State Department and the Indian and Pakistani embassies declined to comment._


Oh man, disgrace is hitting Modi again and again. Shameless lies by Indians after 27/2 are bound to haunt them. More disgrace and humiliation is waiting for criminal Modi and liar Indians. Downed SU-30 is chasing Modi. And Indians are relying on lies and more lies to dodge it. But it'll hit its intended target sooner than later when the actual footage (or may be parts of it) come out. Indians are getting humiliated on daily basis. These idiots wanted to set a new norm (to hit Pakistan at will) and now find their head stuck in sh!t. They deserve it all.


----------



## Skywalker

alee92nawaz said:


> View attachment 551341
> what will indians do without the F-16 lolipop


To answer this 3ndians wanna suck a lollipop be it F16 or your or mine.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khan Kore

PurpleButcher said:


> India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.
> 
> The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.
> 
> It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.
> 
> The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.
> 
> Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.
> 
> “As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”
> 
> The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.
> 
> He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.
> 
> *One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.
> 
> Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.*
> 
> *But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.*
> 
> *A second senior U.S. defense official with knowledge of the count confirmed that U.S. authorities on the ground found that no Pakistani F-16s were missing.*
> 
> Evidence suggests that Pakistan’s F-16s were involved in the battle. The remnants of a U.S.-made AIM-120 air-to-air missile was found near the site; out of all the aircraft involved, only the F-16 can shoot such a weapon.
> 
> When the incident occurred, India asked the U.S. government to investigate whether Pakistan’s use of the F-16 against India violated the terms of the foreign military sale agreements.
> 
> However, the first defense official said the agreement did not involve any terms limiting the use of the F-16s.
> 
> “It would be incredibly naive for us to believe that we could sell some type of equipment to Pakistan that they would not intend to use in a fight,” the official said.
> 
> The U.S. State Department and the Indian and Pakistani embassies declined to comment.
> 
> https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/0...Zzrn-qL6b6VBX1K_8k5vexbwlW8pC0ao040s1hNeYxECo


Only in their dreams they might have shot down an F 16, when their bellies were full of hot air.


----------



## Oruc

I would love to write a novel on these events with the title 
wrath of a raven.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## _Sherdils_

Just look at the headlines a simple google produces!

*India's F-16 shooting down claim; report raises finger*
Deccan Herald-1 hour ago

No jets 'missing' in US count of Pakistan's F-16 fleet, contradicts India's ...
The Statesman-2 hours ago

India misled the world as it never shot down Pakistani F-16: US officials
Business Recorder-2 hours ago

All of Pakistan's F-16 jets accounted for by US personnel, contradicting ...
International-DAWN.com-2 hours ago

US Counted Pakistan's F-16 Jets – and Found None Missing
International-The Wire-4 hours ago

*Report says US count shows no Pakistan F-16s shot down in Indian ...*
Reuters-1 hour ago

*US count of Pakistan's F-16s fighter jets found none of them missing ...*
Economic Times-3 hours ago

Big blow to Indian narrative: US says IAF shot no Pakistani F16
International-Global Village space-47 minutes ago

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Chaukidaar

A more reliable source. Reuters also confirmed it.

Looks like MoDi ji will have a bad time spreading lies... & elections will show him way out.

And IAF lol , has become the joke of a Century. I believe tomarrow even Srilankan or BD Air Force would outmatch IAF. Pata nahin hum jaise taxpayers ke paiso se ye training karte hai ya din bhar free fund ki daru peete hain.

Anyways, well deserved output , should be a slap in the face of BHAAA JAAAA PAAA Government.
@Windjammer

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ziaulislam

_Sherdils_ said:


> Just look at the headlines a simple google produces!
> 
> *India's F-16 shooting down claim; report raises finger*
> Deccan Herald-1 hour ago
> 
> No jets 'missing' in US count of Pakistan's F-16 fleet, contradicts India's ...
> The Statesman-2 hours ago
> 
> India misled the world as it never shot down Pakistani F-16: US officials
> Business Recorder-2 hours ago
> 
> All of Pakistan's F-16 jets accounted for by US personnel, contradicting ...
> International-DAWN.com-2 hours ago
> 
> US Counted Pakistan's F-16 Jets – and Found None Missing
> International-The Wire-4 hours ago
> 
> *Report says US count shows no Pakistan F-16s shot down in Indian ...*
> Reuters-1 hour ago
> 
> *US count of Pakistan's F-16s fighter jets found none of them missing ...*
> Economic Times-3 hours ago
> 
> Big blow to Indian narrative: US says IAF shot no Pakistani F16
> International-Global Village space-47 minutes ago


even indian media like ET, QUint, the wire and even india today..this is shocking as i expected their media to ignore the news..

seems modi might end up doign something..bad news for the region..

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zee-shaun

I heard Arnab Goswami committed suicide this morning. 

Is it true?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rusty

I'm getting tired of saying this....
WHERE ARE OR RESIDENT INTERNET HINDUS?!?!

they were talking a bit game about shooting down an f16....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TruthTheOnlyDefense

*The finding by the US on the ground in Pakistan "directly contradicts" India's claim that its air force shot down an F-16 fighter jet during an aerial dogfight on Feb 27.*
PTI|
Updated: Apr 05, 2019, 10.31 AM IST






Pakistani Air Force F-16 fighter jets fly in formation during a military parade to mark Pakistan National Day, in Islamabad, Pakistan, Saturday, March 23, 2019. 

A US count of the F-16s with Pakistan has found that none of them are "missing" and all the fighter planes were "present and accounted for", according to a report in a prominent American magazine. 

The finding by the US on the ground in Pakistan "directly contradicts" India's claim that its air force shot down an F-16 fighter jet during an aerial dogfight on February 27. 

The Indian Air Force on February 28 displayed pieces of the AMRAAM missile, fired by a Pakistani F-16, as evidence to "conclusively" prove that Pakistan deployed US-manufactured F-16 fighter jets during an aerial raid targeting Indian military installations in Kashmir. 

Pakistan had categorically said that no F-16 fighter jets were used and denied that one of its planes had been downed by the IAF. 

According to the Foreign Policy magazine, Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalised. 

"A US count of Pakistan's F-16 fleet has found that all the jets are present and accounted for, a direct contradiction to India's claim that it shot down one of the fighter jets during a February clash," Lara Seligman of the magazine reported on Thursday. 

The count of the F-16 fighter planes in Pakistan has been completed, and "all aircraft were present and accounted for," an unnamed defence official was quoted as saying by the magazine. 

The Department of Defence did not immediately respond to a question on its count of F-16 fighter jets in Pakistan. 

*"As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians," MIT professor Vipin Narang told Foreign Policy magazine.

"It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process," he said. *

Generally, in such agreements, the US requires the receiving country to allow its officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected, the news report said. 

Tensions between India and Pakistan escalated after the suicide bomber of JeM killed 40 CRPF personnel in Jammu and Kashmir's Pulwama district on February 14. 

India launched a counter-terror operation against a JeM training camp in Balakot. The next day, Pakistan Air Force retaliated and downed a MiG-21 in an aerial combat and captured its pilot, who was handed over to India on March 1. 

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-them-missing-report/articleshow/68733231.cms

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Placemat

PakSword said:


> Question is: two additional pilots who ejected that day were riding which jet(s)? I believe 2 JF17s


No idea man... maybe paragliders having adventure sports tourism . 
But lot of sh1t for Indi


----------



## _Sherdils_

Economic times FINALLY reporting properly:

India launched a counter-terror operation against a JeM training camp in Balakot. The next day, Pakistan Air Force retaliated and downed a MiG-21 in an aerial combat and captured its pilot, who was handed over to India on March 1.

NO MENTION OF F-16 DOWNING LOL


Also this:

"As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians," MIT professor Vipin Narang told Foreign Policy magazine.

"It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process," he said.

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/68733231.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst



ziaulislam said:


> even indian media like ET, QUint, the wire and even india today..this is shocking as i expected their media to ignore the news..
> 
> seems modi might end up doign something..bad news for the region..



I hope the last line doesn't happen.

I agree, this news should have come out post elections...



member.exe said:


> The IAF's whole victory narrative is hinged on the F16 downing claim. Take out this claim and what else is there left for the IAF to celebrate?


Qadoos bro Qadoos.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HttpError

Indian Logic: Americans don't know how to count. 

Indian Logic#2: Pakistanis painted JF-17 as F-16 and fooled the Americans.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## darksider

Joe Shearer said:


> Without wreckage on the ground, nobody can prove anything for sure.
> 
> Two lots of wreckage have been videotaped and circulated widely - by Pakistani sources, not Indian.
> 
> India has one aircraft to account for, and it has been accounted for.
> 
> It is possible that the second wreck was a UFO. I sincerely hope you are not in the habit of reading aloud to yourself.


can you share the video in which two wreckage showing?
thanks

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ZAC1

Well i still respect abinandon bcz he didnt lied...


crankthatskunk said:


> It is utter shame for the Indian media, all its politicians and the Indian idiots who were asking the proofs of F16 shooting down by IAF on this forum.
> 
> How can we forget day long transmissions of Indian TV Channels that how great a hero AbhiNonedone is that he shot down a F 16 with a Mig 21.
> 
> #FakeIndia

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HttpError

Indian Logic: Americans don't know how to count. 

Indian Logic#2: Pakistanis painted JF-17 as F-16 and fooled the Americans.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HttpError

Indian Logic: Americans don't know how to count. 

Indian Logic#2: Pakistanis painted JF-17 as F-16 and fooled the Americans.


----------



## ziaulislam

_Sherdils_ said:


> Economic times FINALLY reporting properly:
> 
> India launched a counter-terror operation against a JeM training camp in Balakot. The next day, Pakistan Air Force retaliated and downed a MiG-21 in an aerial combat and captured its pilot, who was handed over to India on March 1.
> 
> NO MENTION OF F-16 DOWNING LOL
> 
> 
> Also this:
> 
> "As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians," MIT professor Vipin Narang told Foreign Policy magazine.
> 
> "It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process," he said.
> 
> Read more at:
> //economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/68733231.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
> 
> 
> 
> I hope the last line doesn't happen.
> 
> I agree, this news should have come out post elections...
> 
> 
> Qadoos bro Qadoos.


also quint, TOI and NDTV..seems every new channel is picking this up as indian wake up to another shocking day


----------



## crankthatskunk

ZAC1 said:


> Well i still respect abinandon bcz he didnt lied...



Yeah, until now he is keeping quiet, may be muffled by the Indians. 
I am sure, if he is allowed to speak, he would have taken Indians humiliation to another level altogether. 

He couldn't have lied anyway, knowing that PAF has the evidence to bust his lies. His arsenal fully intact as we shown on this forum, all his missiles were accounted for. Second, the recent confirmation that all F16 are counted for.


----------



## war&peace

Shane said:


> So the nose stands not just bloodied but is proven to have been altogether obliterated by PAF.


In fact, Pakistan has been kind and exercised a lot of restraint otherwise we could have downed a lot more of IAF A/Cs, destroyed their mil. targets and have sent their COAS Bhipin and rest of the top mil. leadership to the next world, and sunk their sub and kept the Indian pilot Abi None Done..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## graphican

This clarity also confirms that India lost a Mig-21 and an Su-30 because those two pilots who ejected weren't Pakistani - now its confirmed!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HttpError

Now Russia should count all of its SU-30 MKI and make it public.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nefarious

Nooooo

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Windjammer

Chaukidaar said:


> A more reliable source. Reuters also confirmed it.
> 
> Looks like MoDi ji will have a bad time spreading lies... & elections will show him way out.
> 
> And IAF lol , has become the joke of a Century. I believe tomarrow even Srilankan or BD Air Force would outmatch IAF. Pata nahin hum jaise taxpayers ke paiso se ye training karte hai ya din bhar free fund ki daru peete hain.
> 
> Anyways, well deserved output , should be a slap in the face of BHAAA JAAAA PAAA Government.
> @Windjammer


Sometimes a slap or two works wonders to bring a person to his senses but then when your whole image is built on a deceit then you have to tell more lies to remain relevant.....anyways some are now questioning the whole circus created by the Indian military but i doubt they will come clean.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## SIPRA

HttpError said:


> Indian Logic: Americans don't know how to count.
> 
> Indian Logic#2: Pakistanis painted JF-17 as F-16 and fooled the Americans.



Indian Logic # 3: The PAF got, the Abhinandan's MIG-21 plane, dented and painted, from a famous workshop of Bilal Ganj, Lahore, and presented it as F-16, to the US team.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ZAC1

crankthatskunk said:


> Yeah, until now he is keeping quiet, may be muffled by the Indians.
> I am sure, if he is allowed to speak, he would have taken Indians humiliation to another level altogether.
> 
> He couldn't have lied anyway, knowing that PAF has the evidence to bust his lies. His arsenal fully intact as we shown on this forum, all his missiles were accounted for. Second, the recent confirmation that all F16 are counted for.


So we should respect that soldier...he is no doubt a brave soldier...


----------



## coffee_cup

Indian Logic #4: The crow we killed was called F16.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Path-Finder

HttpError said:


> Indian Logic: Americans don't know how to count.
> 
> Indian Logic#2: Pakistanis painted JF-17 as F-16 and fooled the Americans.



They made a model F16 life like and showed that!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ProudPak

Jobless Jack said:


> what i find worrying is how can another country count how many F 16 is operation in PAF


They sold them to Pakistan and repairs etc


----------



## SIPRA

coffee_cup said:


> Indian Logic #4: The crow we killed was called F16.



But, there is a problem of time frame, which is important in military operations. Crow was shot on 26.02.2019; whereas the downing of F-16 has been claimed to be on 27.02.2019.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SecularNationalist

Indian logic #5 :India shot down F-16 using a vedic missile and later used powers of hindutva for it,s second janam that,s why the count is complete.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rusty

iPhone said:


> Na, ever since feb 27 they’re gone man. I’m not talking one or two stragglers that pop up every now then. I remember they used to come out here in hordes, esp during the Zardari and NS times when bombings and targeted killing was norm in Pakistan, all you saw was Indians here posting and starting threads. It’s been a month and a half it’s just radio silence over here.



I remember those days. This place was infested with them and they made a million posts about how Pakistan was a failed state and India was a super power.


Oh how times have changed.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SecularNationalist

Now it would be only fair for the Indians to let the Russians do a inventory count of their SU-30, no?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Umar Nazir

Now its high time, that Russians should count SU 30’s. Or they want Pakistan to release the video footage of SU 30 downing

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SecularNationalist

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Indian excuses I’ve counted in the last couple of minutes on Twitter:
> 
> 1. US is Pakistan’s daddy and is keeping Pakistan happy (forget about all the weapons being sold to India)
> 2. US is beholden to Pakistan because of Afghanistan peace talks
> 3. US doesn’t want it’s F-16 reputation damaged
> 4. Some ‘brother’ Muslim country loaned an F-16 to Pakistan to make up the numbers
> 
> .... more to follow I’m sure.


Now they are saying on social media that abhinandan downed the F16 jet we bought from jordan and US officials only count the jets we bought directly from USA.Oh my god these people have no shame even after when they were caught with their pants down.
Be it from jordan or USA all the equipment is inspected by USA if it,s made by USA.There are also other sales agreements and technology transfer agreements of american made equipment as well which apply to all countries using american military equipment.And jordan as a third party sold F16,s to us with the permission of USA so americans also have count authority on those jets as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beast

I am wondering why IAF never claim to shot down JF-17 but instead F-16 which can be accounted for by US?

They can even claim shot down 10 JF-17 since it is not able to account for by an independent third party? Are Indian stupid?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Trailer23

PDFChamp said:


> Source
> 
> It would be nice if this US report puts an end to Indian nonsense claims. One more arrow in Modi's behind.
> 
> *Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.*
> *New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*
> By  Lara Seligman | April 4, 2019, 7:50 PM
> 
> Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi waves at the public rally in Kolkata, India, on April 3. (Atul Loke/Getty Images)
> 
> View attachment 551385
> 
> 
> India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.
> 
> *The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.*
> 
> It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.
> 
> The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.
> 
> Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.
> 
> “As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”
> 
> The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.
> 
> He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.
> 
> One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.
> 
> Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.
> 
> *But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.*


To all the Mods..., @PDFChamp deserves more Positive Ratings for this *Jumma Mubarak* news than anything.

I honestly thought @Windjammer was gonna be the one to break this news.

The fact that NDTV was/is the only Indian Channel that has covered this news is a clear indication that they're still in denial.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Pandora

Now Indians have started to claim that it was an ADF which was shot down not our Block 52/MLU F16.

Did our ADF ever go through MLU? I thought we just bought them to use JDAMs in tribal belt?


----------



## twocents

This isn't going to be the end of the Indian farce. Mark this down. Indians will come back and cry out to the high heavens that they did shoot down a Pakistani jet. It was just that in the confusion of battle they misidentified it as F-16. "A" Pakistani jet was shot down. All we need now is a full inspection of the entire inventory of PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SecularNationalist

Beast said:


> Are Indian stupid?


Well do you have any doubts after they shot down their own helicopter and killed 6 of their own?
Pajeet the team killer

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Umar Nazir

If india want to save itself from further ashamed, than its time to accept that their 2 jets were down by mighty PAF , otherwise in coming days , we should release video of both IAF jets down and one of them was high value jet.


----------



## Pandora

Beast said:


> I am wondering why IAF never claim to shot down JF-17 but instead F-16 which can be accounted for by US?
> 
> They can even claim shot down 10 JF-17 since it is not able to account for by an independent third party? Are Indian stupid?



They wanted US intervention hence invented story of F16 shot down probably thought US would put sanctions on us.


----------



## RangeMaster

DG ISPR


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114096887177646082

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Amaa'n

Pandora said:


> Now Indians have started to claim that it was an ADF which was shot down not our Block 52/MLU F16.
> 
> Did our ADF ever go through MLU? I thought we just bought them to use JDAMs in tribal belt?


ADF we have are MLUd, capable of firing amraams

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Axis Of Logic

#BREAKING:
In the meantime, DG ISPR responds!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Secret Service

Someone to tell me .

it is now confirmed that PAF didnt lose any F16.

Locals have seen 2 to 3 pilots coming down. We can see in many videos on youtube.

Where are the others pilots ?

What was the fate of the twin seat aircraft ?



Axis Of Logic said:


> #BREAKING:
> In the meantime, DG ISPR responds!
> 
> View attachment 551388


 Cheetaa...

Another strike by DG..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## _Sherdils_

RangeMaster said:


> DG ISPR
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114096887177646082


The Legend of DG ISPR returns - love this guy!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Placemat

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Ok. Agreed it does seem like India did not bring down an f16. Likely play was , pak f16 comes in along mirage . India scrambles mig21 and su30. Pak f16 fires a few at su30 but takes evasive action and missile part in India. Mig21 has one f16 locked and chases and maybe even fires. In the meantime crosses loc. F16 evades mig missile but mig is downed in Pakistani occupied area.


Why is my post rated negatively. 
I am agreeing F16 was not taken down @Arsalan .... what do I need to do in this forum to e on the right side.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## _Sherdils_

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Why is my post rated negatively.
> I am agreeing F16 was not taken down @Arsalan .... what do I need to do in this forum to e on the right side.



The second part of your post is again Bollywood crap.

The F-16s were configured with BVR package. They were supposed to neutralise SU-30MKIs, whether they shot one or not is speculation but the SU30s were outclassed and were busy defending themselves (confirmed by Hindustan times)

How did the F-16s find themselves in visual combat range of the Mig21? 

Just liek the F-16 shooting down lie has been debunked, this was another masala story by Indian media about Abhinandan's greatness. False.


----------



## cranwerkhan

ISPR tweet


----------



## 313ghazi

Vortex said:


> Yes, as said by @xyxmt, let it go.
> 
> Don’t humiliate them more. They will die of high Bp, heart attack, brain stroke, or simply of too much gas with constipation.
> 
> Who will we troll then ?



As per Pakistani tradition, surely if there is no external enemy to fight, we start fighting amongst ourselves?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Taimoor Khan

CyclopS said:


> Cover ups have happened before and that too on top of the food chain, both in pakistan and US.
> 
> *Exclusive Friendly fire downs Pakistani F-16; U.S. in a coverup*
> ByRICHARD SALE
> WASHINGTON -- A Pakistan Air Force F-16 accidentally shot down a companion F-16 previously reported to have been hit by a Soviet-made missile last May during combat over Afghanistan -- and U.S. officials assisted in the coverup, administration officials said Saturday.
> 
> 'It was pilot error,' a U.S. intelligence source said of the jet fighter's loss.
> 
> *Pakistan's attempt to cover up the accident was assisted by some Pentagon and State Department officials *who felt the false report of a Soviet 'kill' might help promote Pakistan's bid to acquire sophisticated U.S.-made AWACS radar airplanes, administration sources told United Press International.
> 
> However, *Pakistan first concocted the story primarily to 'save face' and prevent any embarrassment of its Air Force*, which has created an F-16 craze among the Pakistani people, they said.
> 
> Asked about the disclosure that the plane was downed by friendly fire, a defense official at Pakistan's Washington embassy said, 'This we do not know because we have no links with our Air Force Department.' He declined further comment.
> 
> https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/0...Pakistani-F-16-US-in-a-coverup/8251553579200/




But but but 

Your defense minister was bitching and screaming that India shot down PAF F16s and it was brave Abhinandan who got the kill? 

What happened to that narrative? I am sure your defense minister got to be the most learned official in Indian government?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SIPRA

Strife said:


> I would love to write a novel on these events with the title
> wrath of a raven.



"Kawway Ka Inteqaam"
"Aik Desh Bhagat Kawway Ki Katha"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Secret Service

where are the other two pilots came down from Su30 ??


----------



## airmarshal

PakSword said:


> Chalo bhaee... Abb kehna shuru karo ke jf 17 giraya tha...




After JF-17, they will claim it was Musshaq. This Indian randi rona will continue. And this also shows their pain.


----------



## Sabretooth

What was going through shitty brains of Indian establishment when they started propagating the fake news of shooting down a state of the art and pricey piece of modern technology? It wasn't some grocery item that one could hide. It was a US fighter jet which are closely monitored and tracked. 
Lying has become the bread and butter of Indiots.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Taimoor Khan

cranwerkhan said:


> ISPR tweet
> View attachment 551390



Hahaha.

NOW WE TALKING. 


Come on India, cough up information about the second aircraft shoot down by PAF. 

India either needs to reject officially that it did not lose any SU30 or let independent observers do a count of its SU30 inventory.


----------



## 313ghazi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114099796011364352
looks like the bakht bandar army got to her timeline....lol

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Windjammer

*India's F-16 shooting down claim; report raises finger*

Kalyan Ray, DH News Service, New Delhi, APR 05 2019, 11:34AM IST UPDATED: APR 05 2019, 11:34AM IST
l
India’s claim of shooting down one of Pakistan’s F-16 combat aircraft in a dogfight on February 27 has now come under question. Foreign Policy – a reputed US journal on international relations – on Friday published a report in which unnamed US officials were quoted to note that each of Pakistan’s F-16 fighter jets were accounted for.

The officials were involved in an F-16 head counting exercise undertaken in the wake of the recent Indian Air Force-Pakistan Air Force aerial battle on February 27.

Foreign Policy now quotes senior US Defence official having knowledge of the headcount exercise to suggest that every piece of the aircraft is accounted for and protected.

*Some*_* of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the *__*conflict.*_ That’s why it took the US personnel several weeks to account for all the jets. But now the count has been completed and all aircraft were present and accounted for, the report says quoting the official. A second senior officer has also confirmed that US authorities on the ground found that no F-16 was missing.

Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/nation...g-down-claim-report-raises-finger-727120.html

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## Peaceful Civilian

SecularNationalist said:


> Now it would be only fair for the Indians to let the Russians do a inventory count of their SU-30, no?


Russian figthers are inferior from Western jet fighters. Even 40 years old jet still posses threat to any latest russian fighter in arsenal. Even turkey f16 shot down their fighter, russian never dare to cross Syria from mid city.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Enigma SIG

Taimoor Khan said:


> Hahaha.
> 
> NOW WE TALKING.
> 
> 
> Come on India, cough up information about the second aircraft shoot down by PAF.
> 
> India either needs to reject officially that it did not lose any SU30 or let independent observers do a count of its SU30 inventory.


We don't want to put Russia in a precarious position; hence the restraint in not claiming a SU-30 kill. Don't want to damage fresh renewal in diplomatic ties by showing superiority of a US weapon over a Russian one.


----------



## SIPRA

Chaukidaar said:


> A more reliable source. Reuters also confirmed it.
> 
> Looks like MoDi ji will have a bad time spreading lies... & elections will show him way out.
> 
> And IAF lol , has become the joke of a Century. I believe tomarrow even Srilankan or BD Air Force would outmatch IAF. Pata nahin hum jaise taxpayers ke paiso se ye training karte hai ya din bhar free fund ki daru peete hain.
> 
> Anyways, well deserved output , should be a slap in the face of BHAAA JAAAA PAAA Government.
> @Windjammer



You are mistaken, I believe. In spite of all that, he is going to win with comfortable majority and would rule India for another 5 years.

Daaru bhi, lagta hae, koi achhi nasal ka peenay ko nahin milta.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Joe Shearer said:


> Without wreckage on the ground, nobody can prove anything for sure.
> 
> Two lots of wreckage have been videotaped and circulated widely - by Pakistani sources, not Indian.
> 
> India has one aircraft to account for, and it has been accounted for.
> 
> It is possible that the second wreck was a UFO. I sincerely hope you are not in the habit of reading aloud to yourself.




We have done our count of F16s by original manufacturer.

When are you going to let Russians count your SU30s?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hayreddin

Even our crows take full revenge from IAF . 
An eye for an eye ......

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Placemat

_Sherdils_ said:


> The second part of your post is again Bollywood crap.
> 
> The F-16s were configured with BVR package. They were supposed to neutralise SU-30MKIs, whether they shot one or not is speculation but the SU30s were outclassed and were busy defending themselves (confirmed by Hindustan times)
> 
> How did the F-16s find themselves in visual combat range of the Mig21?
> 
> Just liek the F-16 shooting down lie has been debunked, this was another masala story by Indian media about Abhinandan's greatness. False.


Ok.. the report which says that F16 was not downed.. the same scenario is played out in that.. 
Anyways.. the truth is amraam missile parts were found in India. Unless a report says that is not true that will be my statement. India has all planes accounted for and we know that 1 mig went down. What is it that you want to say. Still it doesn't warrant a negative rating.


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Enigma SIG said:


> We don't want to put Russia in a precarious position; hence the restraint in not claiming a SU-30 kill. Don't want to damage fresh renewal in diplomatic ties by showing superiority of a US weapon over a Russian one.




Su30 is not f16 kill, it was the jf17 prey. Mig21 was f16 kill.

We as a nation needs to develop ruthless streak when looking after our own interests. It's such a big marketing coup for jf17. No one should be above our own interest.


----------



## Enigma SIG

Taimoor Khan said:


> Su30 is not f16 kill, it was the jf17 prey. Mig21 was f16 kill.


Both are Russian jets.

Point is; ties with Russia are just warming up. Don't want to slow them down because we wanted to paint a SU30 on a JF-17 (that would look awesome though).


----------



## SIPRA

Zee-shaun said:


> I heard Arnab Goswami committed suicide this morning.
> 
> Is it true?



No. He could not get hold of an ample quantity of Potassium Cyanide, for the purpose.



Rusty said:


> I'm getting tired of saying this....
> WHERE ARE OR RESIDENT INTERNET HINDUS?!?!
> 
> they were talking a bit game about shooting down an f16....



They are roaming about, hither and thither, in search of some effective counter narrative, like the proverbial thirsty crow was in search of some water.



crankthatskunk said:


> Yeah, until now he is keeping quiet, may be muffled by the Indians.
> I am sure, if he is allowed to speak, he would have taken Indians humiliation to another level altogether.
> 
> He couldn't have lied anyway, knowing that PAF has the evidence to bust his lies. His arsenal fully intact as we shown on this forum, all his missiles were accounted for. Second, the recent confirmation that all F16 are counted for.



After Abhinandan returned to India, I was thinking that, within a few days, he would come on media to say that all his statements, videotaped during his custody and then aired by Pakistan, were given under acute duress and coercion. But, this has not happened. What is your take on it?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Enigma SIG said:


> Both are Russian jets.
> 
> Point is; ties with Russia are just warming up. Don't want to slow them down because we wanted to paint a SU30 on a JF-17 (that would look awesome though).




What is more important? Marketing and selling your own products and make huge money which you desperately, cementing your credentials as quality weapons supplier or massage the egos of your competitors in weapons market, the Russians? All issues are done and dealt with on merit, and that's how big nations think and do business.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Salza said:


> These losers will remain quiet and pretends to ignore the report. Anyways another embarrassing reality check for them but I am sure most of the injuns know this already in their hearts.





Oscar said:


> The Pakistani nation was lied to about Kargil


Plz tell the lie


----------



## Daghalodi

Indians here for damage control saying we dont want to sprain relations with russian showing US weaponary superior than Russians need to wake up from the bollywood sleep and face the reality that you have been Bych slapped!!!

@Shankranthi @Tom M @Tshering22 @SorryNotSorry @Hindustani78
@Chhatrapati @randomradio
@God Parshuram


----------



## SIPRA

Beast said:


> I am wondering why IAF never claim to shot down JF-17 but instead F-16 which can be accounted for by US?
> 
> They can even claim shot down 10 JF-17 since it is not able to account for by an independent third party? Are Indian stupid?



I think, that Modi thought that the claim of downing a JF-17 would not bring as many votes as that of F-16. Greed hath a fall.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## darksider

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114096887177646082

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114099796011364352

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SIPRA

SecularNationalist said:


> Indian logic #5 :India shot down F-16 using a vedic missile and later used powers of hindutva for it,s second janam that,s why the count is complete.



Sir, there is a problem with this logic. Since, F-16 of PAF are evil and "paapi", in their nature; they cannot reincarnate as F-16. Owing to their perpetual sins, at best, they can have a rebirth as mosquitoes, flies, crows and like.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nefarious

India's time to launch protest with U.S, should have used most accurate vedic numerology.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dubious

> Foreign Policy – a reputed US journal on international relations – on Friday published a report in which unnamed US officials were quoted to note that each of Pakistan’s F-16 fighter jets were accounted for.


Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/nation...g-down-claim-report-raises-finger-727120.html

There goes the illegitimate thinking that they downed a F16!

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## SIPRA

twocents said:


> This isn't going to be the end of the Indian farce. Mark this down. Indians will come back and cry out to the high heavens that they did shoot down a Pakistani jet. It was just that in the confusion of battle they misidentified it as F-16. "A" Pakistani jet was shot down. All we need now is a full inspection of the entire inventory of PAF.



It may be accepted; provided India agrees that the inventories, of both the countries, shall be checked, by a duly agreed third party.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## drunken-monke

Go by Author's previous articles, Seems like an arms lobbyist to me.
The Pentagon releases official press releases for everything, was there a press release for this ? If not, then the timing of this report is in itself a suspect.
Oh and most importantly did they count the F-16 Pak brought from Jordan or only the American supplied ones ?


----------



## devil302

And now the cow-co-cola drinker would say any thing just see their mentality

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hussain0216

drunken-monke said:


> Go by Author's previous articles, Seems like an arms lobbyist to me.
> The Pentagon releases official press releases for everything, was there a press release for this ? If not, then the timing of this report is in itself a suspect.
> Oh and most importantly did they count the F-16 Pak brought from Jordan or only the American supplied ones ?



They count all of them

All F16 purchases have to be U.S approved and monitored

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ziaulislam

RIWWIR said:


> No. He could not get hold of an ample quantity of Potassium Cyanide, for the purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> They are roaming about, hither and thither, in search of some effective counter narrative, like the proverbial thirsty crow was in search of some water.
> 
> 
> 
> After Abhinandan returned to India, I was thinking that, within a few days, he would come on media to say that all his statements, videotaped during his custody and then aired by Pakistan, were given under acute duress and coercion. But, this has not happened. What is your take on it?


Abhi seems to be a professional and refused to confabulate stuff

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HRK

Beast said:


> Are Indian stupid?


one word 'egoistic'


----------



## hussain0216

ziaulislam said:


> Abhi seems to be a professional and refused to confabulate stuff



It may be shocking but its possible we met the one indian out of 1.4 billion who refused to lie and bow down to delusions

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ziaulislam

Beast said:


> I am wondering why IAF never claim to shot down JF-17 but instead F-16 which can be accounted for by US?
> 
> They can even claim shot down 10 JF-17 since it is not able to account for by an independent third party? Are Indian stupid?


They believe the jf17 is such a abd aircraft that its an insult to even engage with it..like you wont engage with civilian aircraft


----------



## PurpleButcher

Indian saying we smuggled F-16...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114079437715206149


----------



## ziaulislam

Trailer23 said:


> To all the Mods..., @PDFChamp deserves more Positive Ratings for this *Jumma Mubarak* news than anything.
> 
> I honestly thought @Windjammer was gonna be the one to break this news.
> 
> The fact that NDTV was/is the only Indian Channel that has covered this news is a clear indication that they're still in denial.


Covered by quint, deccan times , ET & TOI
Surely they are awake now


----------



## Areesh

ziaulislam said:


> Abhi seems to be a professional and refused to confabulate stuff



He looked like a professional to me

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pak-Canuck

I thought this deserves a separate thread on it's own. Let this be the final nail in the coffin for all deluded people, NO F-16 was shot down, and here it is from all the Indian news sources. What's hilarious are all the comments on these articles, with half of them finally waking up and lashing out at Modi and half of them still saying that India is the only country in the world not lying about this claim 

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-...ts-indias-claim-foreign-policy-report-2018244

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-them-missing-report/articleshow/68733231.cms

https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...ne-of-them-missing-report/article26742502.ece

https://www.business-standard.com/a...et-completely-baseless-fo-119031000225_1.html

https://in.reuters.com/article/indi...wn-in-indian-battle-report-idINKCN1RH0IK?il=0


*U.S. count shows no Pakistan F-16s shot down in Indian battle - report*

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - Pakistan’s F-16 combat jets have all been accounted for, U.S.-based Foreign Policy magazine said, citing U.S. officials, contradicting an Indian air force assessment that it had shot down one of the jets in February.

India and Pakistan engaged in an aerial battle over the disputed region of Kashmir a day after Indian jets crossed over into Pakistan to attack a suspected camp of anti-India militants.

An Indian jet was brought down during the fight and its pilot captured when he ejected on the Pakistani side of the border. India said it, too, had shot down a Pakistani aircraft and the air force displayed pieces of a missile that it said had been fired by a Pakistani F-16 before it went down.

Foreign Policy said in a report published on Thursday two U.S. defence officials with direct knowledge of the matter said U.S. personnel had done a count of Pakistan’s F-16s and found none missing.

The F-16s are made by Lockheed Martin and, under an end-user agreement, the United States required the host country to allow for regular inspections to ensure they were accounted for and protected, Foreign Policy said.

“Truth always prevails,” Pakistan’s army spokesman said in a Tweet. “Time for India to speak truth about false claims & actual losses on their side.”

Details of the India-Pakistan air engagement have not been provided by either side. If the U.S. report turns out to be true, it would be a further blow to Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s claim that India had taught Pakistan a lesson.

The success of Indian air strikes on a camp of the Jaish-e-Mohammed militant group in northwestern Pakistan has also been thrown into doubt after satellite images showed little sign of damage.

High-resolution satellite images reviewed by Reuters last month showed that a religious school run by Jaish appeared to be still standing days after India claimed its warplanes had hit the Islamist group’s training camp on the site and killed a large number of militants.

Modi’s ruling Bharatiya Janata Party, heading into a tight election next week, is campaigning on a platform of tough national security, especially with regard to arch foe Pakistan. New Delhi blames Pakistan for stoking a 30-year revolt in Muslim-majority Kashmir but Islamabad denies any involvement.

Foreign Policy said Pakistan had invited U.S. officials to physically count the F-16 planes after the incident. Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, one of the officials was quoted as saying.

The count had now been completed and all aircraft “were present and accounted for”, the official was quoted as saying.

India has separately asked the United States for its view on whether the use of the F-16s by Pakistan was a violation of the end-user agreement.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rollno21

pakistanipower said:


> get some shame and stop lie @Rollno21


Asking for source ? What's wrong in that.its not like as your isrp claimed will arrange a tour for generalists to count the F16s.


----------



## zulu

1)US confirms that mean L&M understand now no chance for them selling F 21 and thats an great news because deal was so good but thanx to Modi (btw first deal of rafale was also good ) thats y i support this guy for one more term
2)Why DG ISPR mentioned second plane too in tweet are they setting to fire another bomb on Modi???
3)It becomes headlines in Indian media which creating pressure on Modi why they awake suddenly after such long time ???
Not much believer of conspires theories but when big players want to change anyone they first start to discredit him by international media. @Mangus Ortus Novem @Khafee keep an eye on that guy only way he knows to come out of any problem is violence (check his behavior and statements during Gujarat riots 2002 ) also my friend Ajit ""Doodle"" is busy for last 3 days there is nothing more dangerous than desperate idiot

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reichsmarschall

this is pure gold

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114007254049665024

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Fledgingwings

Why not Give one to India? That could go long way feeding indian media and janta with a feeling to finally have one down on the indian ground.Those Hippies only showed the AMRAAM wreck but not the aircraft.I mean how could they!!!!!!!


----------



## Areesh

Rollno21 said:


> I am running short of time ,can some one tell the name of the source or the name of the official .



Official is unnamed

Keep believing that you shot down a F16 and stay blessed in your delusions

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pak-Canuck

Sorry, just saw the other thread open. My bad

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## _Sherdils_

https://thewire.in/security/india-pakistan-f-16-balakot

https://www.firstpost.com/india/ind...eport-says-no-f-16s-were-missing-6393071.html

https://www.timesnownews.com/intern...inandan-varthaman-ppp-iaf-mig-21-bison/395005


----------



## IceCold

Lets tag some Indians shall we
@randomradio

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Reichsmarschall

CyclopS said:


> Cover ups have happened before and that too on top of the food chain, both in pakistan and US.
> 
> *Exclusive Friendly fire downs Pakistani F-16; U.S. in a coverup*
> ByRICHARD SALE
> WASHINGTON -- A Pakistan Air Force F-16 accidentally shot down a companion F-16 previously reported to have been hit by a Soviet-made missile last May during combat over Afghanistan -- and U.S. officials assisted in the coverup, administration officials said Saturday.
> 
> 'It was pilot error,' a U.S. intelligence source said of the jet fighter's loss.
> 
> *Pakistan's attempt to cover up the accident was assisted by some Pentagon and State Department officials *who felt the false report of a Soviet 'kill' might help promote Pakistan's bid to acquire sophisticated U.S.-made AWACS radar airplanes, administration sources told United Press International.
> 
> However, *Pakistan first concocted the story primarily to 'save face' and prevent any embarrassment of its Air Force*, which has created an F-16 craze among the Pakistani people, they said.
> 
> Asked about the disclosure that the plane was downed by friendly fire, a defense official at Pakistan's Washington embassy said, 'This we do not know because we have no links with our Air Force Department.' He declined further comment.
> 
> https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/0...Pakistani-F-16-US-in-a-coverup/8251553579200/


Bullcrap no F16 was downed by Soviets it was friendly wire and its a fact 
Son of Pilot who was flying that viper is a member of this forum you can ask him as well


----------



## Pak-Canuck

All from Indian sources now

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-...ts-indias-claim-foreign-policy-report-2018244

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-them-missing-report/articleshow/68733231.cms

https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...ne-of-them-missing-report/article26742502.ece

https://www.business-standard.com/a...et-completely-baseless-fo-119031000225_1.html

https://in.reuters.com/article/indi...wn-in-indian-battle-report-idINKCN1RH0IK?il=0

Am loving the comments on some of these, with half of them finally waking up and lashing out at Modi and half of them still saying that India is the only country in the world not lying about this claim

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Reichsmarschall

Rollno21 said:


> arrange a tour for generalists to count the F16s.


are you out of your mind?


----------



## Lincoln

IceCold said:


> Lets tag some Indians shall we
> @randomradio



No need to go through all that effort.

@Cobra Arbok
Has a full list he tags to brigade every thread he makes. I am sure he will be happy to tag all of them here, no?

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Dubious

Wonder how indians will be digesting this news ESP AFTER it was official Abhi shot down F16....

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/its-...-shot-down-pakistani-f-16-fighter-jet.606505/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/breaking-f-16-shot-down-by-iaf.604309/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/breaking-news-f-16-shot-down-by-iaf.604307/


----------



## Rollno21

Areesh said:


> Official is unnamed
> 
> Keep believing that you shot down a F16 and stay blessed in your delusions


I may not believe F16 was shot down.but I certainly doubt jf17 shot down mig 21


----------



## Path-Finder

devil302 said:


> And now the cow-co-cola drinker would say any thing just see their mentality
> View attachment 551395



Vedic logic


----------



## Rollno21

Reichsmarschall said:


> are you out of your mind?


Ask your isrp guy.he said so


----------



## Path-Finder

Reichsmarschall said:


> this is pure gold
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114007254049665024



Bakth-ism causing retardation.


----------



## Dubious

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> 4. Some ‘brother’ Muslim country loaned an F-16 to Pakistan to make up the numbers


This is the best...Ummah united on india's request

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SIPRA

Nefarious said:


> India's time to launch protest with U.S, should have used most accurate vedic numerology.



You see, the due determination of the "Shubh Gharhi", in accordance with the Vedic rites, is far more difficult than shooting down an F-16 with MIG-21.


----------



## maximuswarrior

Pak-Canuck said:


> All from Indian sources now
> 
> https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-...ts-indias-claim-foreign-policy-report-2018244
> 
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-them-missing-report/articleshow/68733231.cms
> 
> https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...ne-of-them-missing-report/article26742502.ece
> 
> https://www.business-standard.com/a...et-completely-baseless-fo-119031000225_1.html
> 
> https://in.reuters.com/article/indi...wn-in-indian-battle-report-idINKCN1RH0IK?il=0
> 
> Am loving the comments on some of these, with half of them finally waking up and lashing out at Modi and half of them still saying that India is the only country in the world not lying about this claim



The Indians got shafted LOL



Rollno21 said:


> Ask your isrp guy.he said so



LOL how does the humiliation feel like? Could you share your experience?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Areesh

Rollno21 said:


> I may not believe F16 was shot down.but I certainly doubt jf17 shot down mig 21



And you have no proof for your doubt

Don't miss that part

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SIPRA

drunken-monke said:


> Go by Author's previous articles, Seems like an arms lobbyist to me.
> The Pentagon releases official press releases for everything, was there a press release for this ? If not, then the timing of this report is in itself a suspect.
> Oh and most importantly did they count the F-16 Pak brought from Jordan or only the American supplied ones ?



"Jal bhi chukay parvaanay, ho bhi chuki ruswaayi
Ab khaak urhaanay ko baethay haen tamaashayi"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

Tejas Spokesman said:


> Warhead exploded after hitting chaff


Does not happen - this is a AIM-120-C5 in question.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BHarwana

This is serious humiliation for IAF. Very bad and very sad.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Rollno21

Areesh said:


> And you have no proof for your doubt
> 
> Don't miss that part


Do you have proof ,you are claiming it.



maximuswarrior said:


> LOL how does the humiliation feel like? Could you share your experience?


Isrp works for Pakistan and not India if I am not wrong


----------



## Tejas Spokesman

Khafee said:


> this is a AIM-120-C5 in question.


Exactly.
It's inefficient and nalfubctioning warhead lead to the development of AIM 120C6 which is basically C5 with improved warhead.


----------



## SIPRA

Reichsmarschall said:


> this is pure gold
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114007254049665024



No, Sir. It is far more than pure gold. It is pure platinum.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Areesh

Rollno21 said:


> Do you have proof ,you are claiming it.



We have wreckage of Mig 21

What you have for your doubt?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Beast

ziaulislam said:


> They believe the jf17 is such a abd aircraft that its an insult to even engage with it..like you wont engage with civilian aircraft


Claiming it shot down F-16 just give another incentive to claim JF-17 is better cos it can't be shot down. That is another wrong move from Indian

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Khafee

Tejas Spokesman said:


> Exactly.
> It's inefficient and *nalfubctioning *warhead lead to the development of AIM 120C6 which is basically C5 with improved warhead.


No clue, what that means. Please speak English, not gibberish.

Nonetheless, A dead MKI disagrees with you, but you don't have to agree with him.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## maximuswarrior

Rollno21 said:


> Do you have proof ,you are claiming it.
> 
> 
> Isrp works for Pakistan and not India if I am not wrong


 
Hehe. Very vulnerable and pathetic.

You can ask the French for some help. Rafale will save the day. Hehe. Macron and Modi could fly the Rafale against PAF LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Ali Tariq

Areesh said:


> What you have for your doubt?


Modi, naam hi kafi hai.



Khafee said:


> not gibberish.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dubious

PDFChamp said:


> Source
> 
> It would be nice if this US report puts an end to Indian nonsense claims. One more arrow in Modi's behind.
> 
> *Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.*
> *New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*
> By  Lara Seligman | April 4, 2019, 7:50 PM
> 
> Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi waves at the public rally in Kolkata, India, on April 3. (Atul Loke/Getty Images)
> 
> View attachment 551385
> 
> 
> India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.
> 
> *The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.*
> 
> It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.
> 
> The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.
> 
> Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.
> 
> “As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”
> 
> The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.
> 
> He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.
> 
> One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.
> 
> Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.
> 
> *But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.*


https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/

https://www.deccanherald.com/nation...g-down-claim-report-raises-finger-727120.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-16s-shot-down-in-indian-battle-idUSKCN1RH0IM

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-...ts-indias-claim-foreign-policy-report-2018244

https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2019/04/05/iaf-us-pakistani-f-16.html

https://www.businesstoday.in/curren...ts-over-indias-claim-report/story/334393.html

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-them-missing-report/articleshow/68733231.cms

https://thewire.in/security/india-pakistan-f-16-balakot

https://www.business-standard.com/a...-shooting-down-pak-s-f-16-119040500195_1.html

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2019/04/05/world/asia/05reuters-india-kashmir-pakistan-f16.html

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Khafee

maximuswarrior said:


> Fvck the Indians.
> 
> Where is he that little Indian bootlicking Jew @Solomon2?
> 
> What happened to his tall claims?



He knows what PA has, hence busy trying to save him.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BHarwana

In History it will be remembered as India humiliated due to hate.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SIPRA

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL how does the humiliation feel like? Could you share your experience?



He, in fact, is sharing it. The experience of humiliation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BHarwana

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114106382964412416

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Ali Tariq

Dubious said:


> https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/
> 
> https://www.deccanherald.com/nation...g-down-claim-report-raises-finger-727120.html
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-16s-shot-down-in-indian-battle-idUSKCN1RH0IM
> 
> https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-...ts-indias-claim-foreign-policy-report-2018244
> 
> https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2019/04/05/iaf-us-pakistani-f-16.html
> 
> https://www.businesstoday.in/curren...ts-over-indias-claim-report/story/334393.html
> 
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-them-missing-report/articleshow/68733231.cms
> 
> https://thewire.in/security/india-pakistan-f-16-balakot
> 
> https://www.business-standard.com/a...-shooting-down-pak-s-f-16-119040500195_1.html
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2019/04/05/world/asia/05reuters-india-kashmir-pakistan-f16.html


Janab, inna gussa...? Kyun indians ko bhagana hai is forum se, agar wo na hon ge to hum troll kis ko karein ge.....?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ajpirzada

PDFChamp said:


> Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, *Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT*, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.
> 
> *“As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said*. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”



embarrassing enough? or not yet?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Enigma SIG

Tejas Spokesman said:


> Exactly.
> It's inefficient and nalfubctioning warhead lead to the development of AIM 120C6 which is basically C5 with improved warhead.


Says Tejas Spokesman

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ali Tariq

BHarwana said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114106382964412416


Ahh, after a long time Pakistan has won not only militarily but diplomatically, too. Dil garden garden ho gaya.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Khafee

Rollno21 said:


> *Isrp* works for Pakistan and not India if I am not wrong



No organization by that name exists. Guess PAF has scarred you guys for life.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## BHarwana

Lol okay just try to imagine this. 
IAF. Abhinandan shot down Pakistani F-16.
Me. Who told you?
IAF. Abhinandan
Me. How he was under arrest in Pakistan.
IAF. Modi can talk to anyone in dream.
Me. You win.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Ali Tariq

Khafee said:


> No organization by that name exists. Guess PAF has scarred you guys for life.


You are continuously trolling these guys, looks like you are having a field day.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mahmood uz Zaman

IAF and Indians never ever forget the day of 27th February 2019 when they were defeated and humiliated in air supirorty combat by PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

Ali Tariq said:


> You are continuously trolling these guys, looks like you are having a field day.






BHarwana said:


> Lol okay just try to imagine this.
> IAF. Abhinandan shot down Pakistani F-16.
> Me. Who told you?
> IAF. Abhinandan
> Me. How he was under arrest in Pakistan.
> IAF. Modi can talk to anyone in dream.
> Me. You win.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dubious

Ali Tariq said:


> Janab, inna gussa...? Kyun indians ko bhagana hai is forum se, agar wo na hon ge to hum troll kis ko karein ge.....?


O I had to do that research for a lazy *** indian so I thought put it to use...copied and pasted it here also

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## khail007

Indian government mostly contains of stubborn liars and most of Indians have blind faith in them because of deficiency of grey matter in their skulls.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ali Tariq

Dubious said:


> O I had to do that research for a lazy *** indian so I thought put it to use...copied and pasted it here also


Aaj to indians ka waise e din kharab raha aur phir PDF per bhi sab hi trolling kar rahe hain, feeling sorry for them

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zulfiqar

2nd aircraft being claimed. Let's see Indian response and then ISPR's counter response just to rub it in.

India should wait for another surprise from ISPR as elections come near.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114096887177646082

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## _Sherdils_

Zulfiqar said:


> 2nd aircraft being claimed. Let's see Indian response and then ISPR's counter response just to rub it in.
> 
> India should wait for another surprise from ISPR as elections come near.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114096887177646082


Guy doesn't waits. On the offence straight away.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## alee92nawaz

Pakistani ISPR troll trying to harass infian "Journalists" @Khafee @Windjammer @ziaulislam @Hakikat ve Hikmet

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## AsianLion

This is actually very sad, pathetic, disgusting from India, India should have been truthful about it, Liar.

Now America confirms no F-16 lost of PAF because they have counted all , that should paint a wall of shame for 1.2 billion Indian for outright lying!!!!

Fact is if PAF F-16 was lost, in Pakistan everyone would have seen evidence and accepted whole heartedly. This is not a news to hide so easily in Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Reichsmarschall

@Khafee if radio comm was jammed in the area during dog fight how did Indians knew Abhi shot down a viper?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TsAr

Its being reported by India today as well, lets see what IAF or the Indian trolls here have to say about it now....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ZAC1

Kindly edit jf-17 wikipedia page...if anyone knows the procedure.


Dubious said:


> https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/
> 
> https://www.deccanherald.com/nation...g-down-claim-report-raises-finger-727120.html
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-16s-shot-down-in-indian-battle-idUSKCN1RH0IM
> 
> https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-...ts-indias-claim-foreign-policy-report-2018244
> 
> https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2019/04/05/iaf-us-pakistani-f-16.html
> 
> https://www.businesstoday.in/curren...ts-over-indias-claim-report/story/334393.html
> 
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-them-missing-report/articleshow/68733231.cms
> 
> https://thewire.in/security/india-pakistan-f-16-balakot
> 
> https://www.business-standard.com/a...-shooting-down-pak-s-f-16-119040500195_1.html
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2019/04/05/world/asia/05reuters-india-kashmir-pakistan-f16.html


----------



## BHarwana

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114117849038184448

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
5


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Reichsmarschall said:


> this is pure gold
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114007254049665024


After which they still won’t be satisfied and will ask for DNA tests 3 generations back.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## BHarwana

All F-16 bought from Jordan are also there.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

Reichsmarschall said:


> @Khafee if radio comm was jammed in the area during dog fight how did Indians knew Abhi shot down a viper?



Aircraft went down, they "assumed" it was an F-16. But it was JF-17 that brought down the mig.



alee92nawaz said:


> View attachment 551410
> 
> Pakistani ISPR troll trying to harass infian "Journalists" @Khafee @Windjammer @ziaulislam @Hakikat ve Hikmet


 A new twist "Turkey," seems their BS is limitless.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Dubious

Reichsmarschall said:


> @Khafee if radio comm was jammed in the area during dog fight how did Indians knew Abhi shot down a viper?


Vedic brain wave transmission

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## kingQamaR

Hahaha


----------



## khail007

Windjammer said:


> *India's F-16 shooting down claim; report raises finger*
> 
> Kalyan Ray, DH News Service, New Delhi, APR 05 2019, 11:34AM IST UPDATED: APR 05 2019, 11:34AM IST
> l
> India’s claim of shooting down one of Pakistan’s F-16 combat aircraft in a dogfight on February 27 has now come under question. Foreign Policy – a reputed US journal on international relations – on Friday published a report in which unnamed US officials were quoted to note that each of Pakistan’s F-16 fighter jets were accounted for.
> 
> The officials were involved in an F-16 head counting exercise undertaken in the wake of the recent Indian Air Force-Pakistan Air Force aerial battle on February 27.
> 
> Foreign Policy now quotes senior US Defence official having knowledge of the headcount exercise to suggest that every piece of the aircraft is accounted for and protected.
> 
> *Some*_* of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the *__*conflict.*_ That’s why it took the US personnel several weeks to account for all the jets. But now the count has been completed and all aircraft were present and accounted for, the report says quoting the official. A second senior officer has also confirmed that US authorities on the ground found that no F-16 was missing.
> 
> Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/nation...g-down-claim-report-raises-finger-727120.html



SIt G, you cruelly shattered their wet dreams ... !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## notorious_eagle

Rollno21 said:


> I may not believe F16 was shot down.but I certainly doubt jf17 shot down mig 21



Does not matter what you believe or not, PAF credited a JF17 pilot for the MIG21 kill. End of Story.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khanivore

Just in case anyone missed this tweet ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113963068986404864


----------



## Chak Bamu

They are still going on about two pilot theory.

There is another one in the air now - that the aircraft shot down was JF-17, not F-16.

I suppose it is impossible to convince some people, no matter what one does.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## CodeforFood

CyclopS said:


> Cover ups have happened before and that too on top of the food chain, both in pakistan and US.
> 
> *Exclusive Friendly fire downs Pakistani F-16; U.S. in a coverup*
> ByRICHARD SALE
> WASHINGTON -- A Pakistan Air Force F-16 accidentally shot down a companion F-16 previously reported to have been hit by a Soviet-made missile last May during combat over Afghanistan -- and U.S. officials assisted in the coverup, administration officials said Saturday.
> 
> 'It was pilot error,' a U.S. intelligence source said of the jet fighter's loss.
> 
> *Pakistan's attempt to cover up the accident was assisted by some Pentagon and State Department officials *who felt the false report of a Soviet 'kill' might help promote Pakistan's bid to acquire sophisticated U.S.-made AWACS radar airplanes, administration sources told United Press International.
> 
> However, *Pakistan first concocted the story primarily to 'save face' and prevent any embarrassment of its Air Force*, which has created an F-16 craze among the Pakistani people, they said.
> 
> Asked about the disclosure that the plane was downed by friendly fire, a defense official at Pakistan's Washington embassy said, 'This we do not know because we have no links with our Air Force Department.' He declined further comment.
> 
> https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/0...Pakistani-F-16-US-in-a-coverup/8251553579200/


Stick to the topic at hand please. Here are some facts from recent conflict.
Confirmed by sources:
-trees and a crow destroyed by Indian surgical strike in balakot due to in time interception by PAF
-6 or more ground targets locked and then bombs were dropped in contiguous are to avoid casualty
-mig21 killed tea served
-scorpene class submarine detected and made to surface and ran back with tail between its legs
-Mi17 Heli down by indian own missile.
-Modi is inherently tiny

Hopefully soon to be confirmed. I believe it now:
SU30 killed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TsAr

Chak Bamu said:


> They are still going on about two pilot theory.
> 
> There is another one in the air now - that the aircraft shot down was JF-17, not F-16.
> 
> I suppose it is impossible to convince some people, no matter what one does.


Na na , they did shot down and F-16, PAF painted F-16 on one of there JF-17's and showed that to the Americans 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BHarwana

*U.S. Arms Sales and Defense Trade*

Fact Sheet
Bureau of Political-Military Affairs
February 4, 2019

The United States is committed to strengthening allies and partners worldwide so that they meet their own legitimate self-defense needs and can improve their capabilities to operate beside U.S. forces to address shared security challenges. The U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Political-Military Affairs (PM) oversees most government-to-government arms transfers and the commercial export licensing of U.S.-origin defense equipment and technologies, consistent with the Arms Export Control Act, the Conventional Arms Transfer Policy, the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961, the International Traffic in Arms Regulations, and other statutory authorities and relevant international agreements.

Arms sales and defense trade are key tools of foreign policy with potential long-term implications for regional security. For this reason, the United States takes into account political, military, economic, arms control, and human rights conditions in making decisions on the provision of military equipment and the licensing of direct commercial sales to any country. Each proposed transfer is carefully assessed on a case-by-case basis and approved only if found to further U.S. foreign policy and national security interests. In addition, major defense transfers and sales may be subject to Congressional notification.

Review and monitoring are integral components of the process for U.S.-origin defense equipment delivered to any recipient nation. The United States works to ensure U.S.-origin defense equipment is being used in the manner intended and consistent with the agreement or licenses under which the arms were transferred. The United States is committed to expediting, when possible, defense transfers to U.S. allies and partners, while at the same time seeking to prevent access to U.S.-origin defense technologies by hostile state and non-state actors. *Recipients of U.S.-origin defense articles must agree to make items available for end-use monitoring for the life of the equipment and may not retransfer equipment to a third party without first receiving U.S. authorization.*

Properly regulated defense transfers support the U.S. defense industrial base and reduce the costs of procurement for our own military. The U.S. defense industry directly employs almost 2.5 million people across our nation. These individuals and the companies they work for represent a key part of American entrepreneurship and innovation, helping to maintain the United States’ status as the world leader in the defense and aerospace sectors and ensuring our armed forces maintain their military edge.

FOREIGN MILITARY SALES (FMS)

Under FMS, the United States government manages the transfer of approximately $40 billion per year in defense equipment purchased by foreign allies and partners. PM’s Office of Regional Security and Arms Transfers (PM/RSAT) manages the FMS process, in close partnership with the Department of Defense’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA), which implements FMS cases by working through the military services to negotiate with U.S. defense contractors. PM/RSAT further manages the FMS process by providing the customer with training, sustainment, and contractor logistics support for the lifetime of the sale.

The FMS sales process begins when a country submits a formal Letter of Request that specifies a desired military capability and a rough price. Sales are approved following U.S. government review and, when required, after Congressional notification. After the sale is approved, the DSCA issues a Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA) that specifies the exact defense articles, training, and support to be delivered.

Processing time for FMS cases may vary; they can take months to negotiate, especially for major defense articles that require modifications to standard U.S. systems. Due primarily to the time required for construction of sophisticated defense systems such as fighter aircraft, countries often do not receive delivery of the full package until years after the LOA is finalized. Major FMS sales that have been formally notified to Congress are publicly announced on the DSCA website: http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales.

DIRECT COMMERCIAL SALES (DCS):

Under DCS, PM’s Directorate of Defense Trade Controls provides regulatory approvals for more than $110 billion per year in sales of defense equipment, services, and related manufacturing technologies controlled under the 21 categories of the U.S. Munitions List (USML). These sales are negotiated privately between foreign end-users and U.S. companies.

Under U.S. law, any U.S. company or individual involved in certain activities involving the items enumerated on the USML is required to receive an approved export license or other approval before providing any USML regulated item, technical data, or service to a foreign end-user.

As with FMS, export licenses approved under DCS are approved following an intensive U.S. government review and, as required, after Congressional notification. Export licenses are valid up to four years. Authorizations for defense services are also required and may last for longer timeframes. Licenses and authorizations may be extended or amended as needed.

DCS cases are considered to be proprietary agreements between the foreign governments or companies and the U.S. defense contractor. However, certain information about cases notified to Congress is published quarterly in the Federal Register, in fulfillment of requirements in the Arms Export Control Act.

For further information, please contact the Bureau of Political-Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs at PM-CPA@state.gov, and follow the Bureau of Political-Military Affairs on Twitter, @StateDeptPM.

https://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/2019/288737.htm

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## alee92nawaz

Khafee said:


> Aircraft went down, they "assumed" it was an F-16. But it was JF-17 that brought down the mig.
> 
> 
> A new twist "Turkey," seems their BS is limitless.


Haha. Even turkey can't turn a B model to D...



Khafee said:


> Aircraft went down, they "assumed" it was an F-16. But it was JF-17 that brought down the mig.
> 
> 
> A new twist "Turkey," seems their BS is limitless.





Khafee said:


> Aircraft went down, they "assumed" it was an F-16. But it was JF-17 that brought down the mig.
> 
> 
> A new twist "Turkey," seems their BS is limitless.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114117849038184448 oska bhe elaj ho gia.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dubious

BHarwana said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114106382964412416


1st time? How old is this aunty? 

Looks like they dont feel embarrassed when they shoot Kashmiri children...beghairiti ki intaha!

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## randomradio

IceCold said:


> @randomradio
> Like i told you in another thread, this whole indian drama was nothing but farce and now even Indian allies are busting your lies right, left and center.



Unnamed sources.

Where is DoD, Pentagon, Avengers etc printed alongside the "sources"?


----------



## greenblooded

YE indians nahi mane ge kabhi.typical

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## BHarwana

Dubious said:


> 1st time? How old is this aunty?
> 
> Looks like they dont feel embarrassed when they shoot Kashmiri children...beghairiti ki intaha!



India has always been a laughing stock but it is first time they have realized this I think.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Meengla

Pakistani media is just too free to hide incidents like '350 terrorists' killed by the Indian strike or an F16 shot down inside Pakistani territory. Shame on the Indian military high officials who were made to lie so blatantly in public!!

Seriously, I will find it extremely hard to believe just about anything Indian officials will say in the future WRT foreign policy; for that matter, most of Indian media. 

If Pakistan has a 'deep state' then India has an even deeper state to the utter depths of Hades and the Indian media is in cahoot with that state.

Shame, shame, shame! They could have just said that they did a symbolic strike on an empty place near Balakot. But, as Maj. General Ghafoor said on Feb. 26: "It is said in Urdu language that a wise enemy is better than an unwise friend. In case of Pakistan, unfortunately, our enemy India is unwise and a liar". Historic words!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## crankthatskunk

Some Indian members on this forum are trying to make a stupid excuse that shot down F 16 was part of the batch bought from Jordan. Lara has confirmed that all are accounted for, in response to a twit by a Pakistan.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114143762920431617

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dubious

greenblooded said:


> View attachment 551414
> View attachment 551415
> 
> YE indians nahi mane ge kabhi.typical


yet same indians buying American products when old Russian products can do the job why waste money?


----------



## war&peace

HttpError said:


> Now Russia should count all of its SU-30 MKI and make it public.


Exactly,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AsianLion

Literally Indian PM Modi and its Media propaganda has disgraced Indian Armed forces and hurt their pride so badly. He uses them like third class Police. Very embarrassing this to be in Indian Military who is used, and abused from all sides and had to face losses after losses.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Umar Nazir

* IAF vs PAF official score since 1959*

In 1959 score 2 vs 0
In 1965 score 75 vs 19
In 1971 score 45 vs 42
In 1999 score 2 vs 0
In 2019 score 2 vs  0
*Total score 126 vs 61 *

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## AsianLion

Trust me this is not what @narendramodi followers wants to listen. Modi’s claims of 2016 strikes, IAF dropping the payload & making the run for it, & facing jaw breaking response when Pakistan strikes back, they have only one Option left to cover this drama with Hollywood Scripts was F16 shot down, that too debunked in the whole worldwide like an egg on India.

Preety confirmed Pulwama attack was also an inside job.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Trailer23

A lil' piece I put together for you all. I was going to post it last night, but got help. So glad that I didn't because this morning turned out to make my/our day.






@Horus @Dubious @araz @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @Zarvan
@Arsalan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Asimz @Aiman talha Hashmi @Ali_Baba @Beast @Falcon26 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @JohnWick @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @MBilal106 @crankthatskunk @dexter @Gillani88 @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Haroon Baloch @I S I @khansaheeb @M.AsfandYar @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Okasha Zahid @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Starlord @Super Falcon @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @The Sandman @_Sherdils_ @Umair Nawaz @war&peace @War Thunder @Vortex @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
35


----------



## AsianLion

An American replies to Lara. Salisgman:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113974919325470722

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## HAIDER

United States (US) officials did a count of Islamabad's F-16 jets recently and found that none were missing, contradicting India's claims that it shot down a Pakistani fighter jet amid heightened tensions between both countries after the Pulwama attack, according to a report published on the _Foreign Policy_ magazine's website on Thursday.

Following the conflict between the two countries in February, India had claimed that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had used F-16s to target Indian military installations after crossing the Line of Control. As "proof", what looked like a piece of an AMRAAM missile was shown, which Indian media insisted could only have been fired by a Pakistani F-16.

_Read more: 2 Indian aircraft violating Pakistani airspace shot down; pilot arrested_

Indian media also claimed that before the Indian plane was shot down and its pilot captured by Pakistani forces, an Indian Air Force (IAF) MiG-21 Bison had shot down a PAF F-16 aircraft.

Pakistan had rubbished the Indian reports, making a counter-claim that two aircraft did indeed go down, but both belonged to India. One crashed on Pakistani soil, while the other managed to return to Indian occupied Kashmir.

New Delhi had also insisted that Pakistan’s alleged use of F-16s against India meant that Islamabad stood in violation of its sales agreement with the US. The US State Department had refused to take a position on India's complaint against Pakistan over using F-16s in the air battle.

Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor, the director general of Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), reacting to the _Foreign Policy_ report said: "Allah be praised, truth always prevails. Time for India to speak truth about false claims & actual losses on their side including the second aircraft shot down by Pakistan."



"India needs introspection, especially over atrocities in IOK [Indian-occupied Kashmir]. Region needs peace, progress & prosperity," he added.

_Read more: Foreign journalists find holes in Indian narrative on F-16 usage, Balakot strike_

According to the new report, which quotes two senior US defence officials who have knowledge of the count, one of the senior US defence officials told _Foreign Policy_ that Pakistan had invited the US to count its F-16 planes after the incident "as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalised".

_Foreign Policy_ added that Washington generally requires countries it strikes such agreements with to allow US officials to inspect equipment on a regular basis and to ensure that it is accounted for and safe.

The official explained that some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection after the Pak-India back-and-forth, so it took US personnel a few weeks to account for all the jets. When the count was finally conducted, all F-16s employed by the PAF were accounted for, _Foreign Policy_ reported.

_Read more: Villagers near Balakot say nobody killed or injured by Indian aircraft_

An associate professor of political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Vipin Narang, told _FP_ that although the news likely won't affect Indian voters, it may affect Delhi's dealings with Pakistan in the future.

"As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians," Narang said. "It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process."
https://www.dawn.com/news/1474086/no-pakistani-f-16-shot-down-by-india-us-officials-find-report

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## untitled

Umar Nazir said:


> *so the official score is as follow
> Years IAF vs PAF*
> 1959 2 0
> 1965 75 19
> 1971 45 42
> 1999 2 0
> 2019 2 0
> *Total 126 61 *


You mean PAF vs IAF?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## war&peace

AsianUnion said:


> An American replies to Lara. Salisgem:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113974919325470722


Please don't quote this idiot. He is malicious propagandist and spreads harmful BS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trailer23

A bit late on the news, dude. There were a few Topic(s) created earlier - all of which have been re-directed...somewhere.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Vortex

AsianUnion said:


> Literally Indian PM Modi and its Media propaganda has disgraced Indian Armed forces and hurt their pride so badly. He uses them like third class Police. Very embarrassing this to be in Indian Military who is used, and abused from all sides and had to face losses after losses.




Very true. I remember i have seen a video of a (retired?) indian general requesting modi to not bring indian army in his political game. But I’m unable to find it now

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BHarwana

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114072876632694784

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Umar Nazir said:


> *so the official score is as follow
> Years IAF vs PAF*
> 1959 2 0
> 1965 75 19
> 1971 45 42
> 1999 2 0
> 2019 2 0
> *Total 126 61 *


What happened at 1959? Damn was our Airforce weak on 1971? We did lost Atlantic Aircraft in 1999


----------



## AsianLion

How everyone in world makes a laughing stock of 1.2 billion Indians now:


Remember when India lost Mig-21 and Abhinandan: Indian Media reported:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114006253192318976

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HAIDER

Trailer23 said:


> A bit late on the news, dude. There were a few Topic(s) created earlier - all of which have been re-directed...somewhere.


Now its official from US Defence Dept. Waiting for new Indian claims....


----------



## war&peace

randomradio said:


> Unnamed sources.
> 
> Where is DoD, Pentagon, Avengers etc printed alongside the "sources"?


Well, then go & sue foreignpolicy.com
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/0...Zzrn-qL6b6VBX1K_8k5vexbwlW8pC0ao040s1hNeYxECo

And reuters 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114072876632694784

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## loanranger

HAIDER said:


> United States (US) officials did a count of Islamabad's F-16 jets recently and found that none were missing, contradicting India's claims that it shot down a Pakistani fighter jet amid heightened tensions between both countries after the Pulwama attack, according to a report published on the _Foreign Policy_ magazine's website on Thursday.
> 
> Following the conflict between the two countries in February, India had claimed that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had used F-16s to target Indian military installations after crossing the Line of Control. As "proof", what looked like a piece of an AMRAAM missile was shown, which Indian media insisted could only have been fired by a Pakistani F-16.
> 
> _Read more: 2 Indian aircraft violating Pakistani airspace shot down; pilot arrested_
> 
> Indian media also claimed that before the Indian plane was shot down and its pilot captured by Pakistani forces, an Indian Air Force (IAF) MiG-21 Bison had shot down a PAF F-16 aircraft.
> 
> Pakistan had rubbished the Indian reports, making a counter-claim that two aircraft did indeed go down, but both belonged to India. One crashed on Pakistani soil, while the other managed to return to Indian occupied Kashmir.
> 
> New Delhi had also insisted that Pakistan’s alleged use of F-16s against India meant that Islamabad stood in violation of its sales agreement with the US. The US State Department had refused to take a position on India's complaint against Pakistan over using F-16s in the air battle.
> 
> Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor, the director general of Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), reacting to the _Foreign Policy_ report said: "Allah be praised, truth always prevails. Time for India to speak truth about false claims & actual losses on their side including the second aircraft shot down by Pakistan."
> 
> 
> 
> "India needs introspection, especially over atrocities in IOK [Indian-occupied Kashmir]. Region needs peace, progress & prosperity," he added.
> 
> _Read more: Foreign journalists find holes in Indian narrative on F-16 usage, Balakot strike_
> 
> According to the new report, which quotes two senior US defence officials who have knowledge of the count, one of the senior US defence officials told _Foreign Policy_ that Pakistan had invited the US to count its F-16 planes after the incident "as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalised".
> 
> _Foreign Policy_ added that Washington generally requires countries it strikes such agreements with to allow US officials to inspect equipment on a regular basis and to ensure that it is accounted for and safe.
> 
> The official explained that some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection after the Pak-India back-and-forth, so it took US personnel a few weeks to account for all the jets. When the count was finally conducted, all F-16s employed by the PAF were accounted for, _Foreign Policy_ reported.
> 
> _Read more: Villagers near Balakot say nobody killed or injured by Indian aircraft_
> 
> An associate professor of political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Vipin Narang, told _FP_ that although the news likely won't affect Indian voters, it may affect Delhi's dealings with Pakistan in the future.
> 
> "As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians," Narang said. "It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process."
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1474086/no-pakistani-f-16-shot-down-by-india-us-officials-find-report


Time for the IAF to get their entire fleet of Mig 21 Bison's and Su- 30 MKI's counted.Its a bad time to be an Indian !


----------



## Khafee

Areesh said:


> We have wreckage of Mig 21
> 
> What you have for your doubt?



Wishful thinking

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## randomradio

war&peace said:


> Well, then go & sue foreignpolicy.com
> https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/0...Zzrn-qL6b6VBX1K_8k5vexbwlW8pC0ao040s1hNeYxECo
> 
> And reuters
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114072876632694784



Those are not sources, those are media outlets.

During a confrontation, it's a very bad idea to rely on unnamed sources.


----------



## war&peace

randomradio said:


> Those are not sources, those are media outlets.
> 
> During a confrontation, it's a very bad idea to rely on unnamed sources.


So go sue the media outlets, why are shying away pussy..

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SipahSalar

Beast said:


> Indian will claim PAF get a F-16 from Turkish on fast track and repainted and remould the serial number on parts to misled US that no F-16 loses.


Its funny because i DID see an Indian on twitter claim exactly that.


----------



## loanranger

PDFChamp said:


> Source
> 
> It would be nice if this US report puts an end to Indian nonsense claims. One more arrow in Modi's behind.
> 
> *Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.*
> *New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*
> By  Lara Seligman | April 4, 2019, 7:50 PM
> 
> Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi waves at the public rally in Kolkata, India, on April 3. (Atul Loke/Getty Images)
> 
> View attachment 551385
> 
> 
> India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.
> 
> *The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.*
> 
> It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.
> 
> The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.
> 
> Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.
> 
> “As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”
> 
> The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.
> 
> He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.
> 
> One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.
> 
> Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.
> 
> *But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.*


Now its time for the Indians to get their entire fleet of Mig -21 bisons and Su-30 MKI's counted by the russians. Its a terrible day to be an Indian !

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## AsianLion

The whole world news media reporting confirms: No F16 lost, all have been accounted for.

What a big big shame for India airforce, indian liar media and BJP government bloody liars, fraudsters, manipulative, suckers: Why Lie? to gain political mileage, third class pathetic scheming liars: thoroughly disgusting what below the belt our eastern neighbour is: This will hurt liar India even bad.

Click this google news link all flooded with no Lost to PAF F16 news :

https://news.google.com/stories/CAAqOQgKIjNDQklTSURvSmMzUnZjbmt0TXpZd1NoTUtFUWp1OXRMbGpZQU1FVVltbDNvWU1LWWVLQUFQAQ?hl=en-PK&gl=PK&ceid=PK:en

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trailer23

randomradio said:


> Those are not sources, those are media outlets.
> 
> During a confrontation, it's a very bad idea to rely on unnamed sources.


Okay, so when 'A' US Official from the State Dept. clears that NO F-16 was shot down, what is your response gonna be?

Just wanna hear the excuses for that in advance.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## IceCold

randomradio said:


> Unnamed sources.
> 
> Where is DoD, Pentagon, Avengers etc printed alongside the "sources"?



Apparently you have no shame left.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khanivore

LOL! And it gets next-level ridiculous...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114100501048467457

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Khafee

IceCold said:


> Apparently you have no shame left.


and that surprises you?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## sneakerspark

CrazyZ said:


> Pakistan's F-16's have been counted by a third party and verified to all be their. I am now 99.9% convinced that second plane to be a shot down was a Su-30MKI. The Su-30MKI fighter pilot has also been found..."died in a car accident"...to complete the cover up. The only question now: was it an F-16 or JF-17 that shot down the Su-30MKI in the dogfight?


From where do you think they found the remains of Aim120?


----------



## Placemat

So 24 planes with f16 and mirages take down a 60 year old mirage who chased you back into your land and you are chest thumping?


----------



## SipahSalar

CyclopS said:


> 'It was pilot error,' a U.S. intelligence source said of the jet fighter's loss.


So someone in US govt/intelligence still ended up leaking the truth, so why hasnt anyone leaked it this time?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

CyclopS said:


> Cover ups have happened before and that too on top of the food chain, both in pakistan and US.
> 
> *Exclusive Friendly fire downs Pakistani F-16; U.S. in a coverup*
> ByRICHARD SALE
> WASHINGTON -- A Pakistan Air Force F-16 accidentally shot down a companion F-16 previously reported to have been hit by a Soviet-made missile last May during combat over Afghanistan -- and U.S. officials assisted in the coverup, administration officials said Saturday.
> 
> 'It was pilot error,' a U.S. intelligence source said of the jet fighter's loss.
> 
> *Pakistan's attempt to cover up the accident was assisted by some Pentagon and State Department officials *who felt the false report of a Soviet 'kill' might help promote Pakistan's bid to acquire sophisticated U.S.-made AWACS radar airplanes, administration sources told United Press International.
> 
> However, *Pakistan first concocted the story primarily to 'save face' and prevent any embarrassment of its Air Force*, which has created an F-16 craze among the Pakistani people, they said.
> 
> Asked about the disclosure that the plane was downed by friendly fire, a defense official at Pakistan's Washington embassy said, 'This we do not know because we have no links with our Air Force Department.' He declined further comment.
> 
> https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/0...Pakistani-F-16-US-in-a-coverup/8251553579200/



Dated: *July 18, 1987
*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## war&peace

Trailer23 said:


> A bit late on the news, dude. There were a few Topic(s) created earlier - all of which have been re-directed...somewhere.


It will be merged but it is great to share again & again because it is fresh torture for the Bhangies.


----------



## Meengla

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Indian excuses I’ve counted in the last couple of minutes on Twitter:
> 
> 1. US is Pakistan’s daddy and is keeping Pakistan happy (forget about all the weapons being sold to India)
> 2. US is beholden to Pakistan because of Afghanistan peace talks
> 3. US doesn’t want it’s F-16 reputation damaged
> 4. Some ‘brother’ Muslim country loaned an F-16 to Pakistan to make up the numbers
> 
> .... more to follow I’m sure.



Add to your list: According to an Indian forum, India used MIG21 because India was willing to sacrifice its old jet instead of the newer jets. Sigh!

For almost FIFTY years Indians have been rubbing it in about the loss of East Pakistan in the India-Pakistan war. Pakistanis accept the loss. The odds were insurmountable in East Pakistan. Even Gen. McArthur retreated against North Korea _twice _in the height of American power. Accept the loss, the mistakes and move on. Better yourself.

But what you have posted about the Indian excuses is just mind boggling denials. It's not that India has lost Assam or Kashmir. A couple of jets and a helicopter, all because of the mistake they made trying to chase down the PAF jets into Pakistani airspace. A tactical error--the same error which Pakistan had avoided barely 24 years earlier. Some PDF members were breast-beating about it on 26 Feb: Pakistan should have chased down the Indians jets. It would have been a huuuuuge mistake. 

Why are Indians so thick headed? It's a freaking tactical error. Accept it and move on.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## greenblooded

Khanivore said:


> LOL! And it gets next-level ridiculous...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114100501048467457


cow cola effects

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dubious

Trailer23 said:


> A lil' piece I put together for you all. I was going to post it last night, but got help. So glad that I didn't because this morning turned out to make my/our day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @Zarvan
> @Arsalan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Asimz @Aiman talha Hashmi @Ali_Baba @Beast @Falcon26 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @JohnWick @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @MBilal106 @crankthatskunk @dexter @Gillani88 @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Haroon Baloch @I S I @khansaheeb @M.AsfandYar @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Okasha Zahid @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Starlord @Super Falcon @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @The Sandman @_Sherdils_ @Umair Nawaz @war&peace @War Thunder @Vortex @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar


Man....the news reporter- she had to spell it so slowly yet they didnt get it

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## maximuswarrior

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Pak bought 16 f16 from Turkey yi . Were they there in the counting.



LOL Stupid Indian. Stop making fake excuses. You lost. Now get on your knees and repent.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khanivore

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Pak bought 16 f16 from Turkey yi . Were they there in the counting.


Any source?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dubious

Khanivore said:


> LOL! And it gets next-level ridiculous...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114100501048467457


I saw this...wasnt sure if he was drunk like drunk dialing or just trolling his frustration out as last resort!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Chak Bamu

TsAr said:


> Na na , they did shot down and F-16, PAF painted F-16 on one of there JF-17's and showed that to the Americans
> 
> https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/



@kursed put this out there as a joke:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114075675609137153

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khanivore

Chowkidar placemat said:


> So 24 planes with f16 and mirages take down a 60 year old mirage who chased you back into your land and you are chest thumping?


Wow... I'm actually trying to visualize your imaginative dogfight between 24 PAF fighters vs 1x Sad MiG-21. What an epic dogfight that must've been! You have a great imagination. What are you drinking? Cow Cola? Mmm.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Dubious

devil302 said:


> And now the cow-co-cola drinker would say any thing just see their mentality
> View attachment 551395


only 1?

If Turkey brotherhood is brought it...it would be more than one

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Haroon Baloch

Thats a good news to start my Day with. So Boys when US is going to offer F-16V

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pak-Canuck

BOHOT BURI PHAT GAYEE HAI AAJ INKI LOOOOOOOL, it seems a lot them are waking up now. Have a look at all this, and I get a sneaky feeling all of this has been purposely delayed by everyone up till now to cost Modi the election. Who wants to bet HUD camera footage / pics of the SU-30 will be released in few days during Indian elections?

You see even if that doesn't happen the problem is already TWO-FOLD, one that more and more Indians are finally realizing they didn't down an F-16 (I mean come on SHOW ME EVEN ONE PAKISTANI THAT EVEN fears an F-16 went down compared to the many Indians that are accepting the fact that it didn't happen) AND TWO, if a F-16 didn't go down WHAT PLANE did those 2 parachutes in the famous videos belong to?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## _Sherdils_

Trailer23 said:


> A lil' piece I put together for you all. I was going to post it last night, but got help. So glad that I didn't because this morning turned out to make my/our day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @Zarvan
> @Arsalan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Asimz @Aiman talha Hashmi @Ali_Baba @Beast @Falcon26 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @JohnWick @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @MBilal106 @crankthatskunk @dexter @Gillani88 @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Haroon Baloch @I S I @khansaheeb @M.AsfandYar @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Okasha Zahid @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Starlord @Super Falcon @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @The Sandman @_Sherdils_ @Umair Nawaz @war&peace @War Thunder @Vortex @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar



An epic tale summarized in 30 seconds.

Amazing as always!


----------



## war&peace

Falcon26 said:


> Give them 2-3 weeks like post February 27th. They need to assemble and write a script to counter the facts.


Well, bits & pieces have already started....from discrediting the source and news to one obtained from Turkish airforce ... they are miserable and pathetic liars. To know their mentality, just watch a few scammer busting videos on youtube and you will see how blatantly they can lie.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Placemat

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL Stupid Indian. Stop making fake excuses. You lost. Now get on your knees and repent.


Biss genuine question. Yes or no would suffice



Khanivore said:


> Wow... I'm actually trying to visualize your imaginative dogfight between 24 PAF fighters vs 1x Sad MiG-21. What an epic dogfight that must've been! You have a great imagination. What are you drinking? Cow Cola? Mmm.


I think you guys in this forum know more about cow cola than all of India


----------



## Umar Nazir

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> What happened at 1959? Damn was our Airforce weak on 1971? We did lost Atlantic Aircraft in 1999


in 1959 two IAF Cenberra jets entered in Pakistan air space and PAF F-86 bring them down , where as in 1971 more than 33% of PAF staff was Bengali, they (except M M Alam) betrayed PAF and join Indian and Mukhti Bahni during the war. where as Atlantic was Naval civilian plane rather than fighter jet

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

Dazzler said:


> By the way, adfs are amraam capable.
> 
> http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article14.html


Need a tape to make it happen I believe


----------



## Placemat

Khanivore said:


> Any source?


NDTV news


----------



## Umar Nazir

member.exe said:


> You mean PAF vs IAF?


yup no. of fighter jets losses since 1959


----------



## Placemat

Chowkidar placemat said:


> NDTV news


Sorry sorry sorry . I meant Jordan not Turkey


----------



## Amaa'n

war&peace said:


> Well, bits & pieces have already started....from discrediting the source and news to one obtained from Turkish airforce ... they miserable and pathetic liars. To know their mentality, just watch a few scammer busting videos on youtube and you will see how blatantly they can lie.


En ko izaat raas nhn a rahi,, pata nhn proof kab dein ge, jab modi, ab tou US ne bhi itni le li hai

..Ya ALLAH tera shukar hai k humein izaat di.....

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114160272636121088

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## SQ8

All F-16s including those from Jordan went through state Department and congressional approval( we also had to get approval to get T-37s from Turkey).

They all are counted in the register

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## untitled

Chowkidar placemat said:


> I meant Jordan


You do realize if it were up to the Jordanian government we would have had 15 more F-16s in our fleet. Guess why did the deal fall through or got stalled?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## mingle

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Sorry sorry sorry . I meant Jordan not Turkey


All Jordanian F16 r third party sale Auth by US so they r also under US inspections. Lie has no feet stop it now plz

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Placemat

Okay read carefully ... no f16 "shot down" by India and none were "missing" ad mentioned by report.
He did not say that f16 did not crash. A destroyed wreckage if f16 also means that it was not missing. It is there but its broken. Lol.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TOPGUN

So india here is the final report " Go F your self "

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Placemat

TOPGUN said:


> So india here is the final report " Go F your self "


Read report carefully


----------



## PakSword

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Okay read carefully ... no f16 "shot down" by India and none were "missing" ad mentioned by report.
> He did not say that f16 did not crash. A destroyed wreckage if f16 also means that it was not missing. It is there but its broken. Lol.


Australia ja Bhai tu.... Lolll

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Placemat

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Okay read carefully ... no f16 "shot down" by India and none were "missing" ad mentioned by report.
> He did not say that f16 did not crash. A destroyed wreckage if f16 also means that it was not missing. It is there but its broken. Lol.


Ok guys this is in alighter vein okay


----------



## Areesh

balixd said:


> En ko izaat raas nhn a rahi,, pata nhn proof kab dein ge, jab modi, ab tou US ne bhi itni le li hai
> 
> ..Ya ALLAH tera shukar hai k humein izaat di.....
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114160272636121088



IAF bhi modi ki tarah baisharam hai


----------



## TOPGUN

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Read report carefully



I think you and your indian friends need to read it carefully we and the whole world know the truth lolz.


----------



## Placemat

PakSword said:


> Australia ja Bhai tu.... Lolll


Haha.. inshallah

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## aliyusuf

I think it might be that the US maybe solving multiple objectives with this one move ...

To establish beyond doubt that no US made Fighter Jet got shot down by a Russian made Fighter Jet.
To persuade India towards realizing the benefits of inducting US made Fighters in large quantity, or else we might reveal more.
Modi you didn't do too well the first time around, we are not happy, you definitely need to do something real soon.
I know this could be a bit of a stretch, but the way they have publicly come out and made this statement raises valid assumptions about this move. Especially when it is so close to the Indian elections.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SQ8

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Read report carefully


Read. Nothing to support Indian BS or a crash.
However, if the Indian public so desires we are willing to do a flypast of all of our F-16s over Dehli to satisfy their mistrust of us.

They can cooperate in this endeavor or simply ask us to clear our own path to the Area.

Reactions: Like Like:
16


----------



## untitled

Chowkidar placemat said:


> It is there but its broken


An airframe damaged beyond repair due to enemy action is awarded as a kill to the pilot if proven


----------



## Khafee

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Pak bought 16 f16 from Turkey yi . Were they there in the counting.


Somebody needs to ban this clueless indiot

@Dubious @The Eagle @Xeric @Oscar

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Amaa'n

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Okay read carefully ... no f16 "shot down" by India and none were "missing" ad mentioned by report.
> He did not say that f16 did not crash. A destroyed wreckage if f16 also means that it was not missing. It is there but its broken. Lol.


o bhai....jaaa maaf kar....koi aur kaam kar

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## PakSword

Oscar said:


> Read. Nothing to support Indian BS or a crash.
> However, if the Indian public so desires we are willing to do a flypast of all of our F-16s over Dehli to satisfy their mistrust of us.
> 
> They can cooperate in this endeavor or simply ask us to clear our own path to the Area.


Then they will say that the first one passed again in the end after taking a round over Amritsar

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khanivore

Chowkidar placemat said:


> NDTV news


LOL!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## untitled

Oscar said:


> However, if the Indian public so desires we are willing to do a flypast of all of our F-16s over Dehli to satisfy their mistrust of us.


With Amraams


----------



## Placemat

Khanivore said:


> LOL!


Why


----------



## Khafee

balixd said:


> o bhai....jaaa maaf kar....koi aur kaam kar


HE is doing his work - spreading mis-info.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## PakEye

Now is time to count Indian SU-30mki inventory ???

Reactions: Like Like:
 4


----------



## Oruc

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Okay read carefully ... no f16 "shot down" by India and none were "missing" ad mentioned by report.
> He did not say that f16 did not crash. A destroyed wreckage if f16 also means that it was not missing. It is there but its broken. Lol.


this is some serious low IQ level. Try some vedic med.


----------



## newb3e

PakEye said:


> Now is time to count Indian SU-30mki inventory ???


extra hain modi gave birth to twin su30! 

jay modi ki g ki!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dubious

God Parshuram said:


> It seems that all the efforts and statements of ISPR is not enough to convince Pakistani Awam so now a news is fabricated quoting US. Still US name sales in Pakistan.


Fabricated all the way to NYT , RT, indian news?  we own world media now!!! 

https://news.google.com/stories/CAA...ewKHR-CAwkQqgIIKjAA&hl=en-PK&gl=PK&ceid=PK:en

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## macnurv

Oh the Indian Marassis were lying about downing an F-16, who could have guessed that.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Meengla

IceCold said:


> Apparently you have no shame left.



Hahaha! 
In the immortal words in the McCarthy hearings: "Have you no sense of decency, sir?"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CodeforFood

IceCold said:


> Apparently you have no shame left.


He/she never had any to begin with...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Placemat

Khafee said:


> HE is doing his work - spreading mis-info.


Bus kya..Iam merely reading between the lines



Strife said:


> this is some serious low IQ level. Try some vedic med.


What wrong with u

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Bus kya..Iam merely reading between the lines



You are terrible at it. Quit while you are ahead.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TsAr

ISPR spokesperson 
https://www.geo.tv/latest/233269-dg...ruth-as-claims-of-shooting-down-f-16-debunked

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khanivore

Hmmm. Looks like an Indian wikipedia moderator at Talk:India–Pakistan border skirmishes (2019) was trying to discredit ForeignPolicy.com as some little known story magazine but grudgingly accepted it later when another moderator stepped in.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Placemat

Khafee said:


> You are terrible at it. Quit while you are ahead.


I have been arguing with the wife for 15 yrs.. you cannot refute what I said

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PDF

India should have just mentioned an unidentified aircraft of Pakistan being shot down in its narrative even if was false as it wanted to save face. Perhaps, F-7P etc...
In its tri services briefing, it was dismal to see such a high ranking officer holding the used part to show to media.
First, Indian civilian gov tarnished the image of IAF. Then, IAF themselves fell into its trap and has destroyed its reputation. 
India ko leynay ke deney pargaey...

Reactions: Like Like:
17


----------



## Placemat

M.Musa said:


> India should have just mentioned an unidentified aircraft of Pakistan being shot down in its narrative even if was false as it wanted to save face. Perhaps, F-7P etc...
> In its tri services briefing, it was dismal to see such a high ranking officer holding the used part to show to media.
> First, Indian civilian gov tarnished the image of IAF. Then, IAF themselves fell into its trap and has destroyed its reputation.
> India ko leynay ke deney pargaey...


Well done!


----------



## Khafee

Chowkidar placemat said:


> I have been arguing with the wife for 15 yrs.. you cannot refute what I said



This forum is NOT your wife, nonetheless she needs to smack some sense into you.

Reactions: Like Like:
19


----------



## Safriz

Khanivore said:


> Hmmm. Looks like an Indian wikipedia moderator at Talk:India–Pakistan border skirmishes (2019) was trying to discredit ForeignPolicy.com as some little known story magazine but grudgingly accepted it later when another moderator stepped in.


The blog is little, but the writer has a job title "Pentagon Correspondent of Foreign policy".
So the author is authentic and linked to pentagon.



Chowkidar placemat said:


> I have been arguing with the wife for 15 yrs.. you cannot refute what I said



Then nobody can win from you in an argument..Lots of practice

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Pak-Canuck

Indians keep claiming they shot down an F-16D for the last month and a half, the F-16's from Jordan were all A/B, seriously kitna zaleel hona hai inko LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TsAr

Chowkidar placemat said:


> I have been arguing with the wife for 15 yrs.. you cannot refute what I said


Unfortunately your wife is correct,


Tps43 said:


> Exactly and I think usa wants us to disclose our ops details to world so that their F 16s can get record sale deals


What is stopping you from revealing the details, Bismillah karain AP

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Tps43

TsAr said:


> Unfortunately your wife is correct,
> 
> What is stopping you from revealing the details, Bismillah karain AP


Mere par jalte hein

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Joe Shearer

Taimoor Khan said:


> We have done our count of F16s by original manufacturer.
> 
> When are you going to let Russians count your SU30s?



LOL.

They didn't ask. They didn't keep their customers on leading strings, knowing them to be irresponsible adventurists. You remain tied to the US terms for supply of the F-16s.

Since we assemble the SU30 ourselves, we really wouldn't find it difficult to manufacture one if the need arose; as it is, there isn't any need, except in the minds of Pakistani fanboi gangs who think they have won a great victory.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khanivore

شاھین میزایل said:


> The blog is little, but the writer has a job title "Pentagon Correspondent of Foreign policy".
> So the author is authentic and linked to pentagon.


It's not a blog and it's not little. Look it up.


----------



## Khafee

Joe Shearer said:


> LOL.
> 
> They didn't ask. They didn't keep their customers on leading strings, knowing them to be irresponsible adventurists. You remain tied to the US terms for supply of the F-16s.
> 
> Since we assemble the SU30 ourselves, we really wouldn't find it difficult to manufacture one if the need arose; as it is, there isn't any need, except in the minds of Pakistani fanboi gangs who think they have won a great victory.


Since Feb27 2019, IAF has lost ....... Aircrafts ? 

Kindly fill in the blank.

Thanks

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## American Pakistani

Indians be like, zalim maray aur roonay bhi na day.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TsAr

Joe Shearer said:


> LOL.
> 
> They didn't ask. They didn't keep their customers on leading strings, knowing them to be irresponsible adventurists. You remain tied to the US terms for supply of the F-16s.
> 
> Since we assemble the SU30 ourselves, we really wouldn't find it difficult to manufacture one if the need arose; as it is, there isn't any need, except in the minds of Pakistani fanboi gangs who think they have won a great victory.


So what you are saying is thats it been over a month now and India has already imported a knock down kit from Russia and assembled a new MKI with the same serial number...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Joe Shearer

Khafee said:


> Since Feb27 2019, IAF has lost ....... Aircrafts ?
> 
> Kindly fill in the blank.
> 
> Thanks



One, to enemy action. Another helicopter was destroyed, possibly by friendly fire by a missile battery.

You are welcome.


----------



## Placemat

TsAr said:


> So what you are saying is thats it been over a month now and India has already imported a knock down kit from Russia and assembled a new MKI with the same serial number...


License book, RC book road tax... sab tiptop


----------



## Khafee

Joe Shearer said:


> One.
> 
> You are welcome.


You didn't have to expose yourself, but thanks anyway.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Joe Shearer

Khafee said:


> You didn't have to expose yourself, but thanks anyway.



I corrected my post. Please read it again. 

You are welcome anyway; nothing like a neutral observer to counteract the silliness prevailing.



TsAr said:


> So what you are saying is thats it been over a month now and India has already imported a knock down kit from Russia and assembled a new MKI with the same serial number...



Oh no, not yet.

Fevicol does wonders.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## aziqbal

India does not want to admit that JF17 scored the kill 

Because that is simply more embarrassing than saying F16 done the kill 

Shame on India again 

This whole saga has been so embarrassing for them


----------



## TsAr

Viny said:


> Will wait before anything official comes.
> Lara Seligman is another masala news seller working for various banana media.


the story has appeared in Foreign policy not playboy magazine, I am pretty sure if its incorrect by now State department or Pentagon would have denied this story.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## SipahSalar

Joe Shearer said:


> there isn't any need, except in the minds of Pakistani fanboi gangs who think they have won a great victory.


awww poor boy  last month must have been really hard on you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

Joe Shearer said:


> One, to enemy action. Another helicopter was destroyed, possibly by friendly fire by a missile battery.
> 
> You are welcome.


To bhai jan dekh ker missile ka bitton dabao na

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## God Parshuram

Dubious said:


> Fabricated all the way to NYT , RT, indian news?  we own world media now!!!
> 
> https://news.google.com/stories/CAA...ewKHR-CAwkQqgIIKjAA&hl=en-PK&gl=PK&ceid=PK:en



The issue in arguing with you is that you do not even stick to your own reference.


----------



## Pak-Canuck

sinking in to everyone now LOL BOHOT ZALEEL HOYE HAIN AAJ!!!!


----------



## randomradio

Trailer23 said:


> Okay, so when 'A' US Official from the State Dept. clears that NO F-16 was shot down, what is your response gonna be?
> 
> Just wanna hear the excuses for that in advance.



A news can be considered reliable when the source is named.



IceCold said:


> Apparently you have no shame left.



So asking for a source requires shame? Why doesn't the PAF Chief come out himself and say with his own words that no F-16 was lost?


----------



## PurpleButcher

Final nail in the coffin


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183187054366720
*Updated part below
*
One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. *Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected. Some of Pakistan’s F-16s were acquired from Jordan through a third-party transfer, but even these are subject to the end-user agreement, said Richard Aboulafia, an analyst with the Teal Group, an aerospace and defense firm.*

“If you are a user of American defense products … you need to go through a very clear process to send those weapons to a third party,” explained Aboulafia, noting that the United States has a rigid process in place to try to ensure its equipment does not fall into the hands of “hostile actors.”

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Joe Shearer

SipahSalar said:


> awww poor boy  last month must have been really hard on you.



Why?



Imran Khan said:


> To bhai jan dekh ker missile ka bitton dabao na



There is an enquiry on; let us wait for it to finish. Sab to aap jaise chaukas nahin hain.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## d00od00o

*

None of Pakistan's F-16 fighter jets missing after US count: Report*
*"Finding by US on the ground in Pakistan "directly contradicts" India's claim that its air force shot down an F-16 fighter jet during an dogfight," report said.*
WASHINGTON: A US count of the F-16s with Pakistan has found that none of them are missing, contradicting India's claim that one of its fighter jets shot down a Pakistani F-16 during an aerial dogfight on February 27, a leading American magazine reported Thursday. 

Two senior US defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told the Foreign Policy magazine that American personnel recently counted Islamabad's F-16s and found none of the planes missing. 

"The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile," the report said. 

"It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit," the report said. 

The report said that evidence also suggests that Pakistan's F-16s were involved in the aerial battle with the Indian Air Force and only the F-16 can shoot a US-made AIM-120 air-to-air missile. 

When the incident occurred, India asked the US government to investigate whether Pakistan's use of the F-16 against India violated the terms of the foreign military sale agreements. 

The Indian Air Force on February 28 displayed pieces of the AMRAAM missile, fired by a Pakistani F-16, as evidence to "conclusively" prove that Pakistan deployed US-manufactured F-16 fighter jets during an aerial raid targeting Indian military installations in Kashmir. 

According to the magazine, Pakistan invited the US to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalised. 

Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took US personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, one US official said. 

But now the count has been completed, and "all aircraft were present and accounted for," the official said. 

"A US count of Pakistan's F-16 fleet has found that all the jets are present and accounted for, a direct contradiction to India's claim that it shot down one of the fighter jets during a February clash," Lara Seligman of the magazine reported. 

The count of the F-16 fighter planes in Pakistan has been completed, and "all aircraft were present and accounted for," an unnamed defence official was quoted as saying by the report. 

The US Department of Defence did not immediately respond to a question on its count of F-16 fighter jets in Pakistan. 

The US State Department and the Indian and Pakistani embassies declined to comment, the report said. 

Pakistan had categorically said that no F-16 fighter jets were used and denied that one of its planes had been downed by the IAF. 

But on April 1, Pakistan military spokesman Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor for the first time indicated that F-16s might have been used to hit Indian fighter jets during the aerial combat on February 27. 

In a statement, he said Pakistan had the right to use "anything and everything" in its self defence. 

He further said: "Even if F-16 have been used as at that point in time complete PAF was airborne including F16s, the fact remains that Pakistan Air Force shot down two Indian jets in self defence." 

The report said the remnants of a US-made AIM-120 air-to-air missile was found near the site; out of all the aircraft involved, only the F-16 can shoot such a weapon. 

"As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians," Massachusetts Institute of Technology Professor Vipin Narang told the Foreign Policy magazine. 

"It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process," he said. 

Tensions between India and Pakistan escalated after a suicide bomber of Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) terror group killed 40 CRPF personnel in Jammu and Kashmir's Pulwama district on February 14. 

India launched a counter-terror operation against a JeM training camp in Balakot. The next day, Pakistan Air Force retaliated and downed a MiG-21 in an aerial combat and captured its pilot Wing Commander Varthaman, who was handed over to India on March 1 in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.


----------



## CrazyZ

sneakerspark said:


> From where do you think they found the remains of Aim120?


The Su30mki wreckage. Are we sure it was an aim120? It could have been spray painted sukhoi scrap.


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Umar Nazir said:


> where as in 1971 more than 33% of PAF staff was Bengali, they (except M M Alam) betrayed PAF


So it means PAF pilots who were Bengalis they deliberatily let themselves shot by IAF when flying the jets?


----------



## Imran Khan

Joe Shearer said:


> Why?
> 
> 
> 
> There is an enquiry on; let us wait for it to finish. Sab to aap jaise chaukas nahin hain.


Ram buali kary bus


----------



## Kabotar

Best Indian reply so far

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Jinn Baba

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114185772398080000

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## untitled

Jinn Baba said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114185772398080000


Legitimate concern

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Umar Nazir

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> So it means PAF pilots who were Bengalis they deliberatily let themselves shot by IAF when flying the jets?


no but they certainly provide all the information regarding where PAF basis and where were our Radars and secondly when ur seniors skilled staff betrayed u, the juniors took their place with less skills and experience ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## untitled

Kabotar said:


> Best Indian reply so far
> View attachment 551447


C in F-16C basically means China?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Pak-Canuck

Kabotar said:


> Best Indian reply so far
> View attachment 551447




BAS KARO YAAR, I'm gonna piss in my pants laughing. They have gone fully mentally retarded. Borrowed F-16's from china

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Jinn Baba

The Indians still have a hand to play - I think Abhinandan callsign "Chaiwala" will be making a statement. If this doesnt happen, it means we have recorded statements of him OR he was a Su30 pilot.

Baychara is still imprisoned in India. Wonder why Indians dont question his absence or why he is not being allowed to return home. Does anyone really buy that he chose to go sit at an airbase?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## IceCold

Khafee said:


> and that surprises you?


Actually you are right Khafee bhai, it should not come as a surprise.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## cleverrider

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183187054366720

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## untitled

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114184941447725056

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ocelot

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114115919586963457

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Hassannn85

Guys any chance of situation on the LOC deteriorating? Any chance of attack by india because they have been utterly embarrassed today so close to the elections?!


----------



## Khanivore

Jinn Baba said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114185772398080000


Has to be the most mentally deranged response today.


----------



## Dubious

God Parshuram said:


> stick to your own reference.


which is? 

You didnt like ISPR's words so I gave you the world reporting...



Khafee said:


> Somebody needs to ban this clueless indiot
> 
> @Dubious @The Eagle @Xeric @Oscar


trolling their denial kay ilawa aur kiya bacha hai?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Amaa'n

Kabotar said:


> Best Indian reply so far
> View attachment 551447


Someone tell this guy to make sure, he put it as a suggestion to check the Chasis number too, and do the acid test too where the number is punched.....jahaz chori ka hoa tou pakra jaye ga.....



Hassannn85 said:


> Guys any chance of situation on the LOC deteriorating? Any chance of attack by india because they have been utterly embarrassed today so close to the elections?!


very much possible and we should not rule it out....it will be a non military target something India can boast about and World will not have an issue with ......if they manage to strike down an a/c of ours in that time, that will be a different story.....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## waz

Pakistan borrowed an F-16 from Israel, emerging ties and all that.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ziaulislam

losing an aircraft is not the issue, lying about is..that too in an incomprehensible way

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sneakerspark

CrazyZ said:


> The Su30mki wreckage. Are we sure it was an aim120? It could have been spray painted sukhoi scrap.


I'm pretty sure. Besides our airforce is pretty sure. Haven't you seen them and solo turk team wear su30 kill patches?


----------



## Amaa'n

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114192487210524672He used the same picture that we worked on !!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Tejas Spokesman

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183114836692999

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183117764349954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183119710515201


----------



## untitled

Tejas Spokesman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183114836692999
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183117764349954
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183119710515201


During the next 8 secs did the AWACS have anything on its radar scope or are they just singling out the F-16?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Meengla

Jinn Baba said:


> The Indians still have a hand to play - I think Abhinandan callsign "Chaiwala" will be making a statement. If this doesnt happen, it means we have recorded statements of him OR he was a Su30 pilot.
> 
> Baychara is still imprisoned in India. Wonder why Indians dont question his absence or why he is not being allowed to return home. Does anyone really buy that he chose to go sit at an airbase?



I have been wondering about Abhinandan.
My best guess is that the guy has enough honor to stick with his statements when he made when he was in the Pakistani captivity and that he's being pressured to change those statements if he were to be allowed a free normal life. 

According to the lunatic Indian retired General Bakshi: Abhi was drugged by the Pakistani ISI to make those statements, and that's why Abhi was so lethargic walking back to India via the Wagah crossing, and that Imran Khan personally flew to Lahore to witness the torturing and drugging of Abhi!!

Look up those videos of General Bakshi! He should be General BAKWASI!!! HAHAHA!

If this is the caliber of a GENERAL in the Indian Army then may God help India!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Amaa'n

Tejas Spokesman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183114836692999
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183117764349954
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183119710515201


But YOUR media reported that we had used EW & jammed your coms.....also there was no AWAC in the air at the time of Incident......and just because it went off the radar, doesn't mean it was shot down.....EW - Radar Jamming ....terrain hugging......

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Dubious

GumNaam said:


> Keep good relations with the u.s. but from a distance.
> animosity with amreeka is dangerous but their friendship is lethal...
> - General Ayub Khan


Henry Kissinger NOT Ayub Khan "it may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."


Courtesy of @doorstar

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Amaa'n

member.exe said:


> During the next 8 secs did the AWACS have anything on the Radar scope or are they just singling out the F-16?


aaaaa he forgot to ask IAF for the answer to this question....the script doesn't say that

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## CrazyZ

Tejas Spokesman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183114836692999
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183117764349954
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183119710515201


Phalcon is a modern digital system. I'm sure it has a simulation mode....to train new operators or fool media.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SABRE

Here goes Jordanian myth.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183187054366720

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Amaa'n

SABRE said:


> Here goes Jordanian myth.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183187054366720


Vishnu G has another myth --- reading script handed to him by IAF

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HttpError

BC, or kitna zaleel hona hai tum logo ne? I mean baysharmi or Begairti ki bhi koi hud hoti hai. Mager humaray parosi Ik number k besti-proof hain.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## aliyusuf

Well, recent Indian responses or should we say denials or abysmal attempts at rebuttals, nonsensical as they are, are actually a manifestation of a deep rooted psychosis about Pakistan … which apparently seems to turn an otherwise rational Indian into an illogical jingoistic oaf … whenever the topic of Pakistan comes into effect.

Maybe one can speculate the cause to be the very creation of Pakistan in 1947. Which perhaps robbed them (The Hindus) of the opportunity to rule over an undivided Indian Sub-Continent with a complete dominion over the Muslims for the first time. Maybe a scar to their mindset of being ruled by the Muslims in the greater part of the Sub-Continent for almost 600 years i.e. from 1150 AD with the advent of Shahabuddin Ghori till the fall from grace of the Kings that followed the Mughal King Aurangzeb Alamgir. Seems to me the resentment was subdued to begin with. But many years later fanned up during the first BJP term of government after the Kargil episode. Since that occurrence the subdued resentment has grown exponentially to what it is today.

Sad really.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Tejas Spokesman

balixd said:


> But YOUR media reported that we had used EW & jammed your coms.....also there was no AWAC in the air at the time of Incident......and just because it went off the radar, doesn't mean it was shot down.....EW - Radar Jamming ....terrain hugging......


There were actually four PAF blips and only one disappeared and its communications stopped.


> One of the pictures shows a MiG-21 Bison having crossed the Line of Control. At the time, the aircraft was in hot pursuit of Pakistan F-16s, and four blips showing four PAF aircraft were visible.
> 
> Eight to ten seconds later, one of the PAF aircraft is no longer visible on the chart. “This indicates that the PAF aircraft went down,” a source said.


https://theprint.in/defence/radio-i...-iaf-sure-it-shot-down-pakistani-f-16/217558/


----------



## BHarwana

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183187054366720

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Amaa'n

Tejas Spokesman said:


> There were actually four PAF blips and only one disappeared and its communications stopped.
> 
> https://theprint.in/defence/radio-i...-iaf-sure-it-shot-down-pakistani-f-16/217558/


EW counter measures....there are many other reasons for an aircraft to go cold.....anyhow....you guys keep your eyes focused on "Blip" while we hold on to Mig & the pilot and the SPICE Kit & the AAMs......

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## AsianLion

Credibility and safeguarding truth is the first thing a nation's character is known, losing aircrafts is not a big point in a skirmish battle, what the world, USA and Pakistan laughs, looks down on and makes a big joke about is, everyone now knows IAF losses and India's actual claims, yet keep lying flat like a broken record. Pakistan has dented India's credibility, its exposed Indian media and political government. Made a world-wide crap about a 1.2 billion Indians by hitting the Indian's narrowed minded Chanakya psyche.

The more truth India hides, and the more cover-ups it makes, it keeps destroying the leftover little credibility of the biggest democracy. India hides a couple of jets downed, a helicopter down, unsuccessful balakot strike and false claims of F16 shot down, while every proofs and imagery exposes Indian claims....its even can not defend its claims properly.

In-fact it has battered international image of India badly. Indians look narrow minded and naive.

Look at Russia when its jet was shot by Turkey, it was not hidden/covered up but Russia actually admitted it and came out loud to take revenge of it. India on the other hand is total opposite, a laughing lying clown in world.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Peaceful Civilian

Now, what is next excuse for india ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BHarwana

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114192487210524672

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tejas Spokesman

balixd said:


> EW counter measures....there are many other reasons for an aircraft to go cold.....


Then all would have gone cold not just 1 out of 4.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Champs Trophy 2017

Modi has done to India in 5 years what we couldn't have done in 20.
He has exposed India's Terrorist, deceiving & utterly Liar face to the world.
India is laughing stock of the world now coz of his Tea Boy mentality.
I want him to be India's PM for another 5 years for greater good.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## ProudPak

BHarwana said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114192487210524672


Ouch.....this just gets better. Loooool
Has india ever been so humiliated. 
This is drip torture.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## CodeforFood

Tejas Spokesman said:


> Then all would have gone cold not just 1 out of 4.


Dude are you crazy or what??
You have just been served truth by a third party...your ally, as it stands. Grow up own it and fix the issues in your forces...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BHarwana

ProudPak said:


> Ouch.....this just gets better. Loooool
> Has india ever been so humiliated.
> This is drip torture.


Yep India is being trolled lol.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oruc

Didn't indians already said that there was no Awacs to cover their fighters?


----------



## untitled

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Now, what is next excuse for india ?


The phantom blip on their AWACS that disappeared


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

BHarwana said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183187054366720


Modi should hire Lara Seligman - she's doing one 'surgical strike' after another on India.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Goenitz

I think US let IAF personal killed in 'accident' after which they claimed no F-16 was shot down by India.. so that, the 2nd Plane pilots deaths can be covered.. 
P.S fully respect the troops fighting troops not the one who kills innocents

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ziaulislam



Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Vännen

alee92nawaz said:


> Jai mata di


more like jai 'papa' di



Tejas Spokesman said:


> Warhead exploded after hitting chaff


Abay "Cap" don't be a spokeperson for Tejas. Aur kitni bisti kharab karni hy us becharay Light weight ki apnay "Dhakan" tajziye say


----------



## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

Excessive use of social media has developed a generation of brain dead zombies throughout the world.Look how Trump,Modi and others swayed their nonsense to the naive. We can believe it rightly that the bulk of the Indian populace can be manipulated easily by the constant bombardment of fake propaganda,same can be said about us as we also fall for the dynastic and tabdeeli mantras easily.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Khanivore

Tejas Spokesman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183114836692999
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183117764349954
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183119710515201


"_4. Simultaneously, the IAF was monitoring the tactical communications between the PAF formation. The communications of one of these F-16s abruptly ended indicating a shoot down says the IAF._"

Ludicrous. Comms are encrypted. How the heck did they know comms frequencies and listen to encrypted comms?

Someone tell me I'm wrong.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## SecularNationalist

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Russian figthers are inferior from Western jet fighters. Even 40 years old jet still posses threat to any latest russian fighter in arsenal. Even turkey f16 shot down their fighter, russian never dare to cross Syria from mid city.


I dont agree.Russian fighters are top notch as well ,actually what matters most is the man behind the machine.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

ziaulislam said:


>


More embarrassment on the way for Indians let see if any shame left in them? It's a big if?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SIPRA

aliyusuf said:


> Well, recent Indian responses or should we say denials or abysmal attempts at rebuttals, nonsensical as they are, are actually a manifestation of a deep rooted psychosis about Pakistan … which apparently seems to turn an otherwise rational Indian into an illogical jingoistic oaf … whenever the topic of Pakistan comes into effect.
> 
> Maybe one can speculate the cause to be the very creation of Pakistan in 1947. Which perhaps robbed them (The Hindus) of the opportunity to rule over an undivided Indian Sub-Continent with a complete dominion over the Muslims for the first time. Maybe a scar to their mindset of being ruled by the Muslims in the greater part of the Sub-Continent for almost 600 years i.e. from 1150 AD with the advent of Shahabuddin Ghori till the fall from grace of the Kings that followed the Mughal King Aurangzeb Alamgir. Seems to me the resentment was subdued to begin with. But many years later fanned up during the first BJP term of government after the Kargil episode. Since that occurrence the subdued resentment has grown exponentially to what it is today.
> 
> Sad really.



This is exactly, what it is, without any iota of doubt and it is not very easy for them to forego and get rid of this feeling of resentment. You have nailed it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## YeBeWarned

Indians will say, these are not Missiles , but some cheap Chinese quality drain pipes painted as Russian mijjiles .

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Yaseen1

u.s wants to show world that they own f16 and Paf are answerable to them for their use so we should not become much excited by this.I think russia and china are much better than u.s as after selling jets they not interfere in the matters of country who use them


----------



## BHarwana

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Modi should hire Lara Seligman - she's doing one 'surgical strike' after another on India.


Here is more surgical strikes. I told you things will get interesting in few days @PakSword 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114206756496990209

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Trailer23

randomradio said:


> A news can be considered reliable when the source is named.


You didn't/haven't answered my question... Its rather simple. Leaving all b.s. (yours/ours) aside.

IF a (named) US Govt. Official from the State Dept. or Foreign Affairs states that NO F-16 was lost on the 27th of February, 2019 - what will your stand be?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khanivore

CrazyZ said:


> Phalcon is a modern digital system. I'm sure it has a simulation mode....to train new operators or fool media.


Apparently the the Indian Phalcon AWACS only works at 2 frames!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trailer23

Kabotar said:


> Best Indian reply so far
> View attachment 551447


Who is this A-hole?!!


----------



## Khanivore

Trailer23 said:


> Who is this A-hole?!!


A defecating brain-dead mongrel near some busy railway station... lol!..


----------



## ziaulislam

Khanivore said:


> "_4. Simultaneously, the IAF was monitoring the tactical communications between the PAF formation. The communications of one of these F-16s abruptly ended indicating a shoot down says the IAF._"
> 
> Ludicrous. Comms are encrypted. How the heck did they know comms frequencies and listen to encrypted comms?
> 
> Someone tell me I'm wrong.


You are misisng the point arent you 

You guys plainly lied about balakot(proven flase by bbc hindi local reporter snd high resolution sat images), its obvious you will lie and make up things again

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GumNaam

Dubious said:


> Henry Kissinger NOT Ayub Khan "it may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."
> 
> 
> Courtesy of @doorstar


I stand corrected, thanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khanivore

ziaulislam said:


> You are misisng the point arent you
> 
> You guys plainly lied about balakot(proven flase by bbc hindi local reporter snd high resolution sat images), its obvious you will lie and make up things again


I think you didn't read what I wrote... please, haven't we got enough deranged, crazy Indians to deal with today than for you to misunderstand me like this? Get of your horse and drink some milk.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Haris Mansoor

Some indians replying to this
"Does anybody expect the US will concede that their most modern aircraft F-16 was shot down by a Soviet made outdated vintage Mig- 21 ? Leave alone Pakistan, what will be the implications for USA ? It is the prestige of the USA at stake, not Pakistan's !"

and here come again China
"Its the reputation of US at stake now and not pakistan, as pak lack izzat. They can go at all bullshits to cover up their failure. Why this was not done soon after attack ? Is the serial, chasis, engine no... counted ? China too can deliver it to PAK. #*REPUTATION* STAKE REPORT US"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## N.Siddiqui

aliyusuf said:


> Well, recent Indian responses or should we say denials or abysmal attempts at rebuttals, nonsensical as they are, are actually a manifestation of a deep rooted psychosis about Pakistan … which apparently seems to turn an otherwise rational Indian into an illogical jingoistic oaf … whenever the topic of Pakistan comes into effect.
> 
> Maybe one can speculate the cause to be the very creation of Pakistan in 1947. Which perhaps robbed them (The Hindus) of the opportunity to rule over an undivided Indian Sub-Continent with a complete dominion over the Muslims for the first time. Maybe a scar to their mindset of being ruled by the Muslims in the greater part of the Sub-Continent for almost 600 years i.e. from 1150 AD with the advent of Shahabuddin Ghori till the fall from grace of the Kings that followed the Mughal King Aurangzeb Alamgir. Seems to me the resentment was subdued to begin with. But many years later fanned up during the first BJP term of government after the Kargil episode. Since that occurrence the subdued resentment has grown exponentially to what it is today.
> 
> Sad really.




Nailed it, looking at the broader perspective and not just this current episode.

The hardliner Hindutva parties in India needs a constant supply of oxygen of hate and bigotry, a permanent xenophobia against either Muslims or against Pakistan to make them relevant, contestable in elections and get the electorates.

If there is no hate in India the RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal and BJP too will become irrelevant.

If there is no hate in India against Indian Muslims and against Pakistan(at times both are the same thing) than there will be no radicalization and there will be no polarization between Hindus and Muslims, this polarization in India is needed by RSS/VHP/Bajrang Dal/many Sena's and BJP too.

The rise of these radical parties is directly proportional to the rise of hatred and bigotry and vice versa....and the demise of secular Congress.

So every episode that creates hatred like Pulwama, Pathankot, Uri, Mumbai, dozens more should be looked into with this context. These false flag terrorist incidence are needed in India...so as to let the hatred stay and with it the extremist parties.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Xeson

https://www.aninews.in/news/nationa...-abhinandan-shot-down-pak-f-1620190405210050/







I guess they are really not going to stop hammering an axe to their own feet, all the BS aside this part openlly indicates the Second pilot story. Now idk if he is still undercustody or died and given to the Red cross or whatever but if I were a sensible fellow Indian I would feel extremely concerned that its not over and something else is coming to to light up another lie when this part of report is seen adjoined to the DG ISPR's call for telling truth about the other jet.

Any insight from the learned fellows here would be welcome.


----------



## Maarkhoor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114057705390366721

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Maarkhoor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114059981165191168
@Khafee @Windjammer @Oscar

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Haroon Baloch

ISPR buried India in their own crooked lies. Bravo. Why do I smell India will try to do some kind of silly misadventure again?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Path-Finder

Ocelot said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114115919586963457


That is the TRUTH!!

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## aziqbal

Out of 40 delivered in 1980s there was 9 crashes 

14 added after 9/11 to give 45 which went through MLU 

13 from Jordan 

18 new Block 52+ 

18 cancelled due earthquake in 2005 

The money was back handed 

Should have had 36 x F16 C/D 52+

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Ultima Thule

Rollno21 said:


> Asking for source ? What's wrong in that.its not like as your isrp claimed will arrange a tour for generalists to count the F16s.


already posted, she is Pentagon correspondent @Rollno21

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SABRE

Khanivore said:


> "_4. Simultaneously, the IAF was monitoring the tactical communications between the PAF formation. The communications of one of these F-16s abruptly ended indicating a shoot down says the IAF._"
> 
> Ludicrous. Comms are encrypted. How the heck did they know comms frequencies and listen to encrypted comms?
> 
> Someone tell me I'm wrong.



You are not wrong. What, in fact, is likely that PAF's electronic warfare units had disrupted IAF's radars and radio frequency for x-duration of time. Abhinandan probably crossed over LoC amid confusion because of this and got shot down. Common sense would suggest IAF was trying to chase away not shoot down. India/IAF was not planning escalation, otherwise shooting down of MiG-21 provided them with the best opportunity. Su-30MKI wouldn't have turned the tail either but would have tried to engage the targets. Abhinandan's statement that he "came looking for targets" suggests he did not find one or maybe he saw too many of them or a had a distorted frequency, depending on what EW was doing. That's why he was also unable to fire his payload. When he parachuted he did not even know if he was in India or Pakistan. Reality must have dawned when they saw JF-17 making a round turn to get behind the MiG-21. Su-30MKI pilot might have either gotten a hint that they have crossed the LoC &/or that he is in a radar lock (by F-16) given the relatively superior avionics or he himself saw PAF jets taking offensive maneuver and turned around. IAF ground radars must have detected some targets in the start. After all, they were able to send their formation. But quickly lost the signals or received distorted signals because of EW operation by PAF.

The fact that they shot down one of their own Mi-17s in all this confusion should corroborate that their radars and radios were being disrupted. How would they monitor PAF's communication when they were unable to monitor their own assets? Thus, they also went crying to Sweden over ERIEYE. I don't know how much of an EW capability ERIEYE has but some of the members here had mentioned that Falcon-20 EW aircraft was operating in the area.

All of this activity also raises suspicions about the Israeli Phalcon system as well.


----------



## Dazzler

India as a nation has lost it. Though some of them had the IQ of a rat but never mind. Just go through the forums. They're filled with disgusting, beyond ridiculous posts that reading those is a shame.

27th Feb Will go down as the finest hour for the PAF and the worst for the IAF. Their posts, comments, queries, nothing matters.

The 1.5 billion nation become the laughing stock of the world. The age of fifth gen warfare combined with the social media is indeed cruel to them.

Apologies to the rat.

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## The wheel of time

Does this count include the jordanian ones also


----------



## Reichsmarschall

The wheel of time said:


> Does this count include the jordanian ones also


jordon walay klingons ne nhe diye thay
they were also manufactured by Lockheed martins and sale was approved by US

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TsAr

Tejas Spokesman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183114836692999
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183117764349954
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183119710515201


As per reports coming out of Indian Media, no Awacs from Indian side were present during the air skirmish.....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TOPGUN

The wheel of time said:


> Does this count include the jordanian ones also


 What part of ALL don't you get ?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SQ8

TOPGUN said:


> What part of ALL don't you get ?


The part that doesn’t compute with “An Indian cannot be wrong” mentality

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Side-Winder

The wheel of time said:


> Does this count include the jordanian ones also


yes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183187054366720

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## TsAr

Tejas Spokesman said:


> There were actually four PAF blips and only one disappeared and its communications stopped.
> 
> https://theprint.in/defence/radio-i...-iaf-sure-it-shot-down-pakistani-f-16/217558/


Are you sure that Blip was not Abhi's plane going down...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Khanivore said:


> "_4. Simultaneously, the IAF was monitoring the tactical communications between the PAF formation. The communications of one of these F-16s abruptly ended indicating a shoot down says the IAF._"
> 
> Ludicrous. Comms are encrypted. How the heck did they know comms frequencies and listen to encrypted comms?
> 
> Someone tell me I'm wrong.



True
@Tejas Spokesman 
Tell your fantasy riding Bollywood fetish spanking pseudo expert that Fqlcons have ENCRYPTED secure speech module equipped Have Quick 2 radios. Good luck breaking those.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## SABRE

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183119710515201
If we accept that IAF did show journalists - or rather just him - the electronic data then based on what he is saying IAF lost communication on whatever aircraft MiG-21 was seeing not because that aircraft was shot down but because MiG-21 itself was shot down.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dubious

d00od00o said:


> **
> 
> *None of Pakistan's F-16 fighter jets missing after US count: Report*
> *"Finding by US on the ground in Pakistan "directly contradicts" India's claim that its air force shot down an F-16 fighter jet during an dogfight," report said.*
> WASHINGTON: A US count of the F-16s with Pakistan has found that none of them are missing, contradicting India's claim that one of its fighter jets shot down a Pakistani F-16 during an aerial dogfight on February 27, a leading American magazine reported Thursday.
> 
> Two senior US defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told the Foreign Policy magazine that American personnel recently counted Islamabad's F-16s and found none of the planes missing.
> 
> "The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile," the report said.
> 
> "It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit," the report said.
> 
> The report said that evidence also suggests that Pakistan's F-16s were involved in the aerial battle with the Indian Air Force and only the F-16 can shoot a US-made AIM-120 air-to-air missile.
> 
> When the incident occurred, India asked the US government to investigate whether Pakistan's use of the F-16 against India violated the terms of the foreign military sale agreements.
> 
> The Indian Air Force on February 28 displayed pieces of the AMRAAM missile, fired by a Pakistani F-16, as evidence to "conclusively" prove that Pakistan deployed US-manufactured F-16 fighter jets during an aerial raid targeting Indian military installations in Kashmir.
> 
> According to the magazine, Pakistan invited the US to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalised.
> 
> Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took US personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, one US official said.
> 
> But now the count has been completed, and "all aircraft were present and accounted for," the official said.
> 
> "A US count of Pakistan's F-16 fleet has found that all the jets are present and accounted for, a direct contradiction to India's claim that it shot down one of the fighter jets during a February clash," Lara Seligman of the magazine reported.
> 
> The count of the F-16 fighter planes in Pakistan has been completed, and "all aircraft were present and accounted for," an unnamed defence official was quoted as saying by the report.
> 
> The US Department of Defence did not immediately respond to a question on its count of F-16 fighter jets in Pakistan.
> 
> The US State Department and the Indian and Pakistani embassies declined to comment, the report said.
> 
> Pakistan had categorically said that no F-16 fighter jets were used and denied that one of its planes had been downed by the IAF.
> 
> But on April 1, Pakistan military spokesman Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor for the first time indicated that F-16s might have been used to hit Indian fighter jets during the aerial combat on February 27.
> 
> In a statement, he said Pakistan had the right to use "anything and everything" in its self defence.
> 
> He further said: "Even if F-16 have been used as at that point in time complete PAF was airborne including F16s, the fact remains that Pakistan Air Force shot down two Indian jets in self defence."
> 
> The report said the remnants of a US-made AIM-120 air-to-air missile was found near the site; out of all the aircraft involved, only the F-16 can shoot such a weapon.
> 
> "As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians," Massachusetts Institute of Technology Professor Vipin Narang told the Foreign Policy magazine.
> 
> "It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process," he said.
> 
> Tensions between India and Pakistan escalated after a suicide bomber of Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) terror group killed 40 CRPF personnel in Jammu and Kashmir's Pulwama district on February 14.
> 
> India launched a counter-terror operation against a JeM training camp in Balakot. The next day, Pakistan Air Force retaliated and downed a MiG-21 in an aerial combat and captured its pilot Wing Commander Varthaman, who was handed over to India on March 1 in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.


multiple threads running and merged into a single one!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## alee92nawaz

Vännen said:


> more like jai 'papa' di
> 
> 
> Abay "Cap" don't be a spokeperson for Tejas. Aur kitni bisti kharab karni hy us becharay Light weight ki apnay "Dhakan" tajziye say


Indians before today : US is with IND 
From today : US protecting it's ally. 
Itna zaleel ho ky bhe baz ni aye?


----------



## Tejas Spokesman

Dazzler said:


> True
> @Tejas Spokesman
> Tell your fantasy riding Bollywood fetish spanking pseudo expert that Fqlcons have ENCRYPTED secure speech module equipped Have Quick 2 radios. Good luck breaking those.


No such thing as secure encryption when it comes to Israeli monitoring equipment.


----------



## TsAr

Tejas Spokesman said:


> No such thing as secure encryption when it comes to Israeli monitoring equipment.


True that Israeli system are the best in the world, by the way was it not the Israeli missile that went up the Mi-17 Asss

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Tejas Spokesman

TsAr said:


> True that Israeli system are the best in the world, by the way was it not the Israeli missile that went up the Mi-17 Asss


Only SAM unit near Srinagar is SA-8 gecko.


----------



## Secret Service



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaimiKhan

TsAr said:


> True that Israeli system are the best in the world, by the way was it not the Israeli missile that went up the Mi-17 Asss


No, US made Aim120 went up the arse of that Mi17 and that is why the piece of the missile was taken out of the arse of Mi17 and shown to the public. 

And we saw the israeli equipment used by Indians in their attack on balakot. No matter how effective a machine or weapon system is, the professionalism of the ones operating such systems matter.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trailer23

TsAr said:


> Are you sure that Blip was not Abhi's plane going down...


Speaking to which... Where is Abhi-naga? I just watched a Indian Newsclip where they stated that Abhi locked on a F-16 & shot it down.

How come he hasn't appeared on any Channel & gave his side of the story? Naturally it'll be fabricated one, but i'm sure the Pakistan Armed Forces are going to get a kick* out of it.

*It may resemble the one Abhi got in his capture vid.


----------



## PakShaheen79

Tejas Spokesman said:


> No such thing as secure encryption when it comes to Israeli monitoring equipment.



Yeah. Because in Israel laws of physics and mathematics just change, they don't apply. If an algorithm takes 80 years on best supercomputers to be decrypted without its keys, it can become a simple mathematic equation in Israel like 2+2=4.

Wessay yeh Foreign Policy walon ko sharam nahi ati k neighbors key zakham phir se harry kar diye. (Tawanu Lawe Maula!)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## _Sherdils_

TsAr said:


> As per reports coming out of Indian Media, no Awacs from Indian side were present during the air skirmish.....


Any links?


----------



## Secret Service

TsAr said:


> As per reports coming out of Indian Media, no Awacs from Indian side were present during the air skirmish.....


this is likely possible. PAF was waiting for this opportunity for strikes, when their AWACS was either unavailable or being replaced by other.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## _Sherdils_

Secret Service said:


> this is likely possible. PAF was waiting for this opportunity for strikes, when their AWACS was either unavailable or being replaced by other.


This was admitted by Hindustan times here couple of days ago that PAF attacked during AWACS change over.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PDF

Meanwhile, LoC is getting heated up. Innocents suffer the most on both sides.


Dazzler said:


> True
> @Tejas Spokesman
> Tell your fantasy riding Bollywood fetish spanking pseudo expert that Fqlcons have ENCRYPTED secure speech module equipped Have Quick 2 radios. Good luck breaking those.


What if Uncle Sam provide them with communication details? Nothing is hidden from them. ALMS sends all data back to them...


----------



## Areesh

M.Musa said:


> What if Uncle Sam provide them with communication details? Nothing is hidden from them. ALMS sends all data back to them...



Then uncle Sam could have agreed to their bogus claim of shooting down f16 too

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Tejas Spokesman said:


> No such thing as secure encryption when it comes to Israeli monitoring equipment.



Never mind. They got asses kicked too. Don't ask how.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## SQ8

Tejas Spokesman said:


> No such thing as secure encryption when it comes to Israeli monitoring equipment.


Good, then you shouldn’t be running to them in panic as you guys are now.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Microsoft

Salty mod want to explain why my post is removed?


----------



## Trailer23

Rollno21 said:


> I may not believe F16 was shot down.but I certainly doubt jf17 shot down mig 21


Yeah, because MiG-21 is a 5 Generation Jet with all the goodies and the JF-17 is obsolete.

Okay, we get it - India does not want to have the stigma that a 'Made in Pakistan' took down one (or possibly 02) of your jets.

I'm wondering if Abhinandan 'Hero' Varthaman shot a F-16, then why do we have all his missiles accounted for in perfect condition on the buffet tables?

For all the 'experts' sitting on the panels of Indian Media and labelling Pakistan as 'nation of liars' - need to think hard before making such claims in the future. Because, from all that's happened in over a month is Govt. & Military of India being on the Defensive and having to explain themselves.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Secret Service

_Sherdils_ said:


> This was admitted by Hindustan times here couple of days ago that PAF attacked during AWACS change over.


Complete failure of Iaf. I am astonished that there ground radars were unable to pickup large air activity. PAF took this opportunity, a small time window waas available during change over. And it all went well.
They really underestimted PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## AsianLion

Americans just handed Indians a** back to them, they are bullying them, brow-beating them and India has no where to hide.

Just the way Pakistanis handed them back on 27th Feb.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GumNaam

AsianUnion said:


> Americans just handed Indians a** back to them, they are bullying them, brow-beating them and India has no where to hide.
> 
> Just the way Pakistanis handed them back on 27th Feb.


amreekans are trying to get modi to say that "aaj agar f21 hota to bharat itna jaleel nahi hota"!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ajpirzada

apparently IAF has 'electronic signatures' showing that a plane disappeared on their radars during the dogfight on Kashmiri skies... this is their proof that F-16 was shot down...

now that third party evaluation has shown that no F-16 was shot down, perhaps IAF should reconsider that this was perhaps one of their own planes

they are already having a lot of trouble distinguishing between friendly and enemy planes

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## mingle

According to Haris Khan PDF PAF have both audio and video proofs that Su30 was shot down deep IOK

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## 1Paki$tani

Dazzler said:


> True
> @Tejas Spokesman
> Tell your fantasy riding Bollywood fetish spanking pseudo expert that Fqlcons have ENCRYPTED secure speech module equipped Have Quick 2 radios. Good luck breaking those.


Its also funny in that they claimed their mig could nt hear contoller as their equipements were jammed. But now they are claiming that they were able to hear PAF F-16 communicate.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Khafee

Joe Shearer said:


> I corrected my post. Please read it again.
> 
> You are welcome anyway; *nothing like a neutral observer *to counteract the silliness prevailing.



You figured that out just now? Neutrality, by the ship load

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/interesting-aircraft-visiting-pakistan.485840/

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Falcon26

mingle said:


> According to Haris Khan PDF PAF have both audio and video proofs that Su30 was shot down deep IOK



Now we know what the AMRAAM killed.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Trailer23

Just found this video of NDTV... Haven't seen it (yet). Its like 20mins long, so i'd say the same duration as a comedy sitcom.

No Popcorn, but i'm enjoying a Shawarma

Oh & Michael Kugelman is on the show, defending the US Publication.

Please watch Timestamp: *12:07* (evidence was NOT shared to journalist either).

Compared to some other Indian Media, NDTV holds a very decent debate and has a sense of decorum while each individual speaks and makes their respective points.

The narrative of this discussion was clearly siding with the IAF - but one cannot notice the slight hesitation in the minds of the Indians on the show, except the idiot in the yellow shirt (Shantanu Gupta). Air Cmde (Retd.) P DickShit went on some conspiracy theory which involved the B737 Max issues the US is facing. Okay, i'm a Air Crew that has done countless flights on that type & it has nothing to do with it.

Obviously the US-Pak-Afghan topic did come up.

However, bottom line - I think they are bracing for a Official Statement from the US, because then it won't be a matter of 'Unnamed Officials', that they can't seem digest.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mr.Cringeworth

Joe Shearer said:


> who think they have won a great victory.


And what else would one make it out to be, let me just give you a recap of the whole event.
1.India attacks a madrassa using sow and misses.
2.india claims they killed 300+
3.Pakistan says we're examining the impact to see how should we respond.
4.turns out you guys only destroyed some trees, and a crow sorry almost forgot about the crow.
5.The very next day pakistan attacks six indian millitary installations and deliberately changed the target to nearby open areas to avoid escalation (afterall all you did was destroy some trees and a crow).
6.Theres no denying the fact pakistan shot down an Indian aircraft and captured the pilot.
7. Pakistan also claimed of downing another jet which went down in India.( this is a claim because we don't have concrete proof to prove this but still there are more chances of another indian plane going down rather than an f-16 after us official did a count on them.

I don't know how you would take it but anyone with a brain would call it a Pakistani victory.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## AsianLion

Man India is being universally humiliated, cost of politicians, IAF and Media lying to 1.2 billion Indians and the rest of the world has dawned.

Why should ever US lie? Cuz US has taken a stand.

Any F16 flown by anybody can be shot down. Even Mirage flown by Israeli Ai Force have been shot down by Mig ... so has F117A by Soviet origin SAM. It has all been told. 

Indians actually lied through and thin...Indians misled the world...it not only defrauded its own ppl but the rest of humanity.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## PakSword

BHarwana said:


> Here is more surgical strikes. I told you things will get interesting in few days @PakSword


Lolll.. baghair kisi murawat ke le rahay Hain sab mil ke

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## mingle

Falcon26 said:


> Now we know what the AMRAAM killed.


It's same AMRAAM which india showing to public

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Joe Shearer said:


> LOL.
> 
> They didn't ask. They didn't keep their customers on leading strings, knowing them to be irresponsible adventurists. You remain tied to the US terms for supply of the F-16s.
> 
> Since we assemble the SU30 ourselves, we really wouldn't find it difficult to manufacture one if the need arose; as it is, there isn't any need, except in the minds of Pakistani fanboi gangs who think they have won a great victory.



It's not them but you , yourself should be brave enough to ask the original manufacturer, the Russians to do the inventory checks on your SU30s, to get more respectable and internationally acceptable opinion about the current numbers of IAF SU30 fleet. Because tbh, the horse shite that is coming out of India these days , whole world is laughing. 

As for the US terms and conditions for our F16s, if those terms reduce IAF officials holding parts of fired AIM120, as a used condom they are waving infront of world saying, hey look this is the evidence of the rape I was subjected to, I am happy with those terms and conditions.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Trailer23

*India Never Actually Shot Down Pakistani F-16 in Kashmir Clash, New Report Says*​




Pakistani soldiers stand next to what Pakistan says is the wreckage of an Indian fighter jet shot down in Pakistan controled Kashmir at Somani area in Bhimbar district near the Line of Control on February 28, 2019. STR—AFP/Getty Images​ 
By  Iain Marlow / Bloomberg 10:49 AM EDT
(Bloomberg) — India’s statement that its air force shot down one of Pakistan’s U.S.-built F-16 aircraft during a military flareup in late February appears untrue, according to a report by Washington, D.C.-based Foreign Policy magazine, which cited two U.S. defense officials it didn’t identify.

A U.S. count of Pakistan’s F-16 jets revealed none to be missing, the U.S. officials told Foreign Policy, undercutting India’s position that its air force shot down a Pakistan Air Force jet in a clash that also led to the loss of a Soviet-era Indian Air Force MiG-21 Bison.

The aerial clash over Kashmir followed an Indian air strike on what New Delhi said was a terrorist training facility inside Pakistani territory.

Islamabad has said consistently that it did not lose an F-16, that it had deployed JF-17 jets jointly built with China against India and that it had destroyed two Indian aircraft, as opposed to the one downed jet India has confirmed. “No Pakistani F16 was hit by Indian airforce,” a statement from Pakistan’s military released Monday reads.

“Truth always prevails,” Pakistan’s army spokesman Asif Ghafoor said in a tweet on Friday. “Time for India to speak truth about false claims and actual losses on their side.”

Indian foreign ministry spokesman Raveesh Kumar did not immediately respond to a phone call and text messages for comment on Friday. In a previous statement in early March, Kumar had said “there are eye-witness accounts and electronic evidence that Pakistan deployed F-16 aircraft and that one F-16 was shot down” by an Indian pilot.

*Contact us* at editors@time.com

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Khafee

Trailer23 said:


> *India Never Actually Shot Down Pakistani F-16 in Kashmir Clash, New Report Says*​
> View attachment 551573
> 
> Pakistani soldiers stand next to what Pakistan says is the wreckage of an Indian fighter jet shot down in Pakistan controled Kashmir at Somani area in Bhimbar district near the Line of Control on February 28, 2019. STR—AFP/Getty Images​
> By  Iain Marlow / Bloomberg 10:49 AM EDT
> (Bloomberg) — India’s statement that its air force shot down one of Pakistan’s U.S.-built F-16 aircraft during a military flareup in late February appears untrue, according to a report by Washington, D.C.-based Foreign Policy magazine, which cited two U.S. defense officials it didn’t identify.
> 
> A U.S. count of Pakistan’s F-16 jets revealed none to be missing, the U.S. officials told Foreign Policy, undercutting India’s position that its air force shot down a Pakistan Air Force jet in a clash that also led to the loss of a *Soviet-era Indian Air Force MiG-21 Bison*.
> 
> The aerial clash over Kashmir followed an Indian air strike on what New Delhi said was a terrorist training facility inside Pakistani territory.
> 
> Islamabad has said consistently that it did not lose an F-16, that it had deployed JF-17 jets jointly built with China against India and that it had destroyed two Indian aircraft, as opposed to the one downed jet India has confirmed. “No Pakistani F16 was hit by Indian airforce,” a statement from Pakistan’s military released Monday reads.
> 
> “Truth always prevails,” Pakistan’s army spokesman Asif Ghafoor said in a tweet on Friday. “Time for India to speak truth about false claims and actual losses on their side.”
> 
> Indian foreign ministry spokesman Raveesh Kumar did not immediately respond to a phone call and text messages for comment on Friday. In a previous statement in early March, Kumar had said “there are eye-witness accounts and electronic evidence that Pakistan deployed F-16 aircraft and that one F-16 was shot down” by an Indian pilot.
> 
> *Contact us* at editors@time.com



1) Mig 21 was upgraded - not Soviet Era.

2) Lagta hai kisikee kuttay wali hogaiee hai

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## crankthatskunk

Tejas Spokesman said:


> Then all would have gone cold not just 1 out of 4.



Has India made public their Radar Data!!! 
Once it is available, we will discuss it. Until then, thanks for your participation. Conjecture is not a point to start a discussion or debate.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Vortex

Good ! Indians are themselves portraying as a childish nation living in Bollywood Supa Powa mentality.

World should be worried about their nukes.

Time to push this point to the international media and governments.

Beat iron while it is hot. ( french expression translated in English by using Vortex Translation Ltd

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Moonlight

There should be a warning text in the title of this thread for Indian members; “If you are an Indian Please visit this thread at your own risk”. 

——-

Continues humiliation is part of India after the call of “isolation to Pakistan”. 
They’ve been showing Uncle Sam as their dad figure to Pakistanis. And today, making him angry with name-calling to Uncle Sam & painting the image as a ‘dishonest/liar’ person. 

The more they comment on this matter, the better it gets for us to play the 5th generation war. 

We didn’t lose anything in this war except few trees. And we have gained a lot. 

Ps.Isolate karde isolate karde ne main api isolate hoi?

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## PakSword

Moonlight said:


> There should be a warning text in the title of this thread for Indian members; “If you are an Indian Please visit this thread at your own risk”.
> 
> ——-
> 
> Continues humiliation is part of India after the call of “isolation to Pakistan”.
> They’ve been showing Uncle Sam as their dad figure to Pakistanis. And today, making him angry with name-calling to Uncle Sam & painting the image as a ‘dishonest/liar’ person.
> 
> The more they comment on this matter, the better it gets for us to play the 5th generation war.
> 
> We didn’t lose anything in this war except few trees. And we have gained a lot.
> 
> Ps.Isolate karde isolate karde ne main api isolate hoi?


India has already isolated over 150 countries too now... 

US ke India ke haathon isolate honay ki baari abb aayee hai...

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Joe Shearer

Mr.Cringeworth said:


> And what else would one make it out to be, let me just give you a recap of the whole event.
> 1.India attacks a madrassa using sow and misses.
> 2.india claims they killed 300+
> 3.Pakistan says we're examining the impact to see how should we respond.
> 4.turns out you guys only destroyed some trees, and a crow sorry almost forgot about the crow.
> 5.The very next day pakistan attacks six indian millitary installations and deliberately changed the target to nearby open areas to avoid escalation (afterall all you did was destroy some trees and a crow).
> 6.Theres no denying the fact pakistan shot down an Indian aircraft and captured the pilot.
> 7. Pakistan also claimed of downing another jet which went down in India.( this is a claim because we don't have concrete proof to prove this but still there are more chances of another indian plane going down rather than an f-16 after us official did a count on them.
> 
> I don't know how you would take it but anyone without a brain would call it a Pakistani victory.



I agree with you 99.9944%. Only one word out of your 180 needed change.


----------



## PakSword

Joe Shearer said:


> I agree with you 99.9944%. Only one word out of your 180 needed change.


Oye yeh budhha quotation main alfaz change karta hai...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## CodeforFood

Joe Shearer said:


> I agree with you 99.9944%. Only one word out of your 180 needed change.


So you mean if we take the red out of this...
"but anyone without a brain would call it a Pakistani victory"
I think we agree...


----------



## Joe Shearer

Taimoor Khan said:


> It's not them but you , yourself should be brave enough to ask the original manufacturer, the Russians to do the inventory checks on your SU30s, to get more respectable and internationally acceptable opinion about the current numbers of IAF SU30 fleet. Because tbh, the horse shite that is coming out of India these days , whole world is laughing.
> 
> As for the US terms and conditions for our F16s, if those terms reduce IAF officials holding parts of fired AIM120, as a used condom they are waving infront of world saying, hey look this is the evidence of the rape I was subjected to, I am happy with those terms and conditions.



Why is it that in discussing warfare, or external relations, or legislation, or dam-building, or shoes, some people think of rape and condoms? Stuck in a time-warp? 

The fired AIM120s were proof that the PAF had used F16s in combat, something vehemently denied at first, that is slowly creeping into the narrative as the days pass. Progress can be measured by comparing your ISPR statements and releases; nothing further is needed.



CodeforFood said:


> So you mean if we take the red out of this...
> "but anyone without a brain would call it a Pakistani victory"
> I think we agree...



I think you would.


----------



## BATMAN

Falcon26 said:


> Now we know what the AMRAAM killed.



AMRAAM is not programmed to hit Indian aircrafts.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CodeforFood

Joe Shearer said:


> Why is it that in discussing warfare, or external relations, or legislation, or dam-building, or shoes, some people think of rape and condoms? Stuck in a time-warp?
> 
> The fired AIM120s were proof that the PAF had used F16s in combat, something vehemently denied at first, that is slowly creeping into the narrative as the days pass. Progress can be measured by comparing your ISPR statements and releases; nothing further is needed.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you would.


I think the point that was made was that the strike done on india no F16s were used. I am pretty sure all of us agree that we had f16 up for defense in the air along with other jets.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Avicenna

Trailer23 said:


> Just found this video of NDTV... Haven't seen it (yet). Its like 20mins long, so i'd say the same duration as a comedy sitcom.
> 
> No Popcorn, but i'm enjoying a Shawarma
> 
> Oh & Michael Kugelman is on the show, defending the US Publication.
> 
> Please watch Timestamp: *12:07* (evidence was NOT shared to journalist either).
> 
> Compared to some other Indian Media, NDTV holds a very decent debate and has a sense of decorum while each individual speaks and makes their respective points.
> 
> The narrative of this discussion was clearly siding with the IAF - but one cannot notice the slight hesitation in the minds of the Indians on the show, except the idiot in the yellow shirt (Shantanu Gupta). Air Cmde (Retd.) P DickShit went on some conspiracy theory which involved the B737 Max issues the US is facing. Okay, i'm a Air Crew that has done countless flights on that type & it has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Obviously the US-Pak-Afghan topic did come up.
> 
> However, bottom line - I think they are bracing for a Official Statement from the US, because then it won't be a matter of 'Unnamed Officials', that they can't seem digest.



I watched this.

These Indians are full of sh@t.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trailer23

crankthatskunk said:


> Has India made public their Radar Data!!!
> Once it is available, we will discuss it.


If you see the video (below) of NDTV at time code *12:07*, _Vishnu Som_ clearly states that they were *NOT* shown & he quoted the IAF saying, _*"No, why should we share it? What Business or Requirement is there to share it?"*_ . The 2nd guest, _Ajay Shukla_ (Defense Expert) was with Vishnu Som at this event held for the media earlier.








Tejas Spokesman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183114836692999
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183117764349954
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183119710515201


Wanted to bring it to your attention, as you questioned Tweet...
@member.exe @balixd @CrazyZ @Khanivore @TsAr @SABRE

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Shane

PakSword said:


> Oye yeh budhha quotation main alfaz change karta hai...


Hi, Iss buddhay ko maen kutch arsa pehlay completely humiliate kar chuka hon after which he ran away as usual. His title should be PPL Pompous Professional Liar.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chakar The Great

According to fleet data from @AviationWeek, out of Pakistan's total 76 F-16s, 13 are from Jordan. The breakdown (H/t @TheDEWLine):
F-16A Block 1-15 MLU: 24 
F-16B Block 1-15 MLU: 21 
F-16A Block 1-15: 9 (Jordan) 
F-16B Block 1-15: 4 (Jordan) 
F-16C Block 52: 12 
F-16D Block 52: 6

Getting a lot of qs on whether the US included the F-16s Pakistan bought from Jordan in its count. The answer is *YES*: even third-party transfers of US equipment must go through the US government.


Source:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183187054366720

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Safriz

Trailer23 said:


> If you see the video (below) of NDTV at time code *12:07*, _Vishnu Som_ clearly states that they were *NOT* shown & he quoted the IAF saying, _*"No, why should we share it? What Business or Requirement is there to share it?"*_ . The 2nd guest, _Ajay Shukla_ (Defense Expert) was with Vishnu Som at this event held for the media earlier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanted to bring it to your attention, as you questioned Tweet...
> @member.exe @balixd @CrazyZ @Khanivore @TsAr @SABRE


So just to sum up. 
Indians are claiming that Abhinandan shot down F-16 because one of Pakistani F-16 pilot stopped talking on radio and Abhinandan Mig-21 radar signature was seen in the same area as F-16 ???? 
Rubbish

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khanivore

Tejas Spokesman said:


> No such thing as secure encryption when it comes to Israeli monitoring equipment.


Yeah, yeah. The same supadupa, powaful, ADVANCED, state-of-the-art, Israeli system that guided IAF into a skirmish with PAF and took it in the nutsack with 2 IAF jets down, Abhinandan enjoying a good cuppa chai and a mysterious downing of an Mi-17 killing all onboard. Also the Spice-2000 bombs hitting a few trees and killing 1 crow. Awesome Israeli equipment.  I'm sure the shopping list will be long this year for India. Israel has a good customer.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Joe Shearer

Khafee said:


> You figured that out just now? Neutrality, by the ship load
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/interesting-aircraft-visiting-pakistan.485840/



Oh, the evidence is much older than that. 

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/this...-land-and-swim-in-water.612152/#post-11346676


----------



## Keysersoze

Joe Shearer said:


> I agree with you 99.9944%. Only one word out of your 180 needed change.


Interesting But any idea that this is an Indian victory is ludicrous. First the claims of another "Surgical strike" were generally not taken seriously by most people who did not have an axe to grind.
Then the whole business with planes being shot down and claims of F16's being shot down without any real evidence has hardly painted a flattering picture of Indian armed forces.

I suspect the idea was to be like Israel and to drop bombs when you wanted to help win elections, however it has backfired quite badly.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Joe Shearer

CodeforFood said:


> I think the point that was made was that the strike done on india no F16s were used. I am pretty sure all of us agree that we had f16 up for defense in the air along with other jets.



I am pretty sure that our collective opinion, important though it is, does not matter. It merely inflates the post count on PDF.


----------



## crankthatskunk

Khanivore said:


> A defecating brain-dead mongrel near some busy railway station... lol!..



Correction my friend, not railway station, near some railway track/line. 
They usually defecate near tracks, sitting in line, chatting while at it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Vortex

Joe Shearer said:


> ....
> 
> The fired AIM120s were proof that the PAF had used F16s in combat, something vehemently denied at first, that is slowly creeping into the narrative as the days pass....




F16 weren’t used for striking India. 

But they were to defend Pakistan airspace. 

ISPR was talking about the strike in India.

If indians are mixing both points, then nobody can help.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Khafee

Joe Shearer said:


> Oh, the evidence is much older than that.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/this...-land-and-swim-in-water.612152/#post-11346676

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Joe Shearer

Keysersoze said:


> Interesting But any idea that this is an Indian victory is ludicrous.



I agree. Very many Indians agree. In fact, many retired senior officers of the Indian armed forces have also broken their silence and asked that these events should not be projected falsely for political advantage. 

The idea of a victory in the matter of two sets of planes raiding each other's territory is indeed ludicrous. It can occur only to those minds starved of recognition in other respects.



> First the claims of another "Surgical strike" were generally not taken seriously by most people who did not have an axe to grind.



Presumably a polite way of stating that Pakistan does not accept that surgical strikes are surgical strikes until and unless so certified by ISPR. That is natural and understandable.

The use of the term, in this instance, is another example of self-serving political spin. However, such occurrences, cross-border raids, are nothing new. On either side. 

Taking these raids seriously or not seriously is perhaps more appropriately left to commanders on the ground.



> Then the whole business with planes being shot down and claims of F16's being shot down without any real evidence has hardly painted a flattering picture of Indian armed forces.



True. 



> I suspect the idea was to be like Israel and to drop bombs when you wanted to help win elections, however it has backfired quite badly.



What has emerged clearly is that Pakistan may have done better or worse in the exchanges in the air; that is a moot point. Pakistan has certainly won a great victory in the war of perception, in the information war. That should be a matter of chagrin for the vaunted BJP information war apparatus.

It is not without significance that the Pakistani commander of the information war was first to get his just deserts in terms of military recognition of his worth.



Vortex said:


> F16 weren’t used for striking India.
> 
> But they were to defend Pakistan airspace.
> 
> ISPR was talking about the strike in India.
> 
> If indians are mixing both points, then nobody can help.



ISPR is naturally careful to say what is needed to be said in appropriate measure and at appropriate intervals. Quite understandable. And something that can be helped, of course.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Vortex

Joe Shearer said:


> ISPR is naturally careful to say what is needed to be said in appropriate measure and at appropriate intervals. Quite understandable. And something that can be helped, of course.




Not like indians who said F16 shot down by Mig iKiss 

Sure!


----------



## Keysersoze

Joe Shearer said:


> Presumably a polite way of stating that Pakistan does not accept that surgical strikes are surgical strikes until and unless so certified by ISPR. That is natural and understandable.


No It's more of statement that "Surgical strikes" are a way of claiming a victory without actually showing any result. It's a easy votes grabber to claim such things. And when the other side denies anything having happened you shout "Cover up by the other side!" Unfortunately in this case they pushed it too far and the results are still being argued on this forum.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## ziaulislam

Vortex said:


> F16 weren’t used for striking India.
> 
> But they were to defend Pakistan airspace.
> 
> ISPR was talking about the strike in India.
> 
> If indians are mixing both points, then nobody can help.


funny thing that indian themselves are saying that mirages used h4/h2 and than go back and stating f16 did the strike..utterly confused peoples

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## crankthatskunk

Trailer23 said:


> If you see the video (below) of NDTV at time code *12:07*, _Vishnu Som_ clearly states that they were *NOT* shown & he quoted the IAF saying, _*"No, why should we share it? What Business or Requirement is there to share it?"*_ . The 2nd guest, _Ajay Shukla_ (Defense Expert) was with Vishnu Som at this event held for the media earlier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanted to bring it to your attention, as you questioned Tweet...
> @member.exe @balixd @CrazyZ @Khanivore @TsAr @SABRE



Now I have listen to the video. I am shocked, their analysts talk same shit what people here write.
I mean there is no hope to see any Indian coming to his senses. Boy it is a well fucked up nation. Kugelman put them in their place, but they still didn't get it.
The presenter still said Indian killed 100s of terrorists. Wow, there is a limit to the stupidity.

What I have understood from the guys comments it that they showed them blips of the Radar placing the markers on top of Mig 21 and F 16. How they know that the second blip was not from SU 30!! If you put a mark of a SU 30 wouldn't it become a SU trail which disappeared because of it was shot down by PAF. It is very clear that the SU 30 was killed before Abhi's Bison.


----------



## Khanivore

ajpirzada said:


> apparently IAF has 'electronic signatures' showing that a plane disappeared on their radars during the dogfight on Kashmiri skies... this is their proof that F-16 was shot down...
> 
> now that third party evaluation has shown that no F-16 was shot down, perhaps IAF should reconsider that this was perhaps one of their own planes
> 
> they are already having a lot of trouble distinguishing between friendly and enemy planes



There is actually truth behind this regarding Indian air force's difficulties with telling friendlies from enemies. I heard an American pilot say that when Indian Su-30s did exercises with them, the Indians had a hard time figuring out who is friendly and who is enemy and as a result of this, the Indians shot down many friendlies!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

Khanivore said:


> There is actually truth behind this regarding Indian air force's difficulties with telling friendlies from enemies. I heard an American pilot say that when Indian Su-30s did exercises with them, the Indians had a hard time figuring out who is friendly and who is enemy and as a result of this, the Indians shot down many friendlies!


I remember hearing that too.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Trailer23

crankthatskunk said:


> What I have understood from the guys comments it that they showed them blips of the Radar placing the markers on top of Mig 21 and F 16.


*CORRECTION*: They did _NOT_ show them anything. They were informed of what happened. Just go through my post again & read the quote by the IAF which is also mentioned in the video.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Keysersoze

crankthatskunk said:


> Now I have listen to the video. I am shocked, their analysts talk same shit what people here write.
> I mean there is no hope to see any Indian coming to his senses. Boy it is a well fucked up nation. Kugelman put them in their place, but they still didn't get it.
> The presenter still said Indian killed 100s of terrorists. Wow, there is a limit to the stupidity.
> 
> What I have understood from the guys comments it that they showed them blips of the Radar placing the markers on top of Mig 21 and F 16. How they know that the second blip was not from SU 30!! If you put a mark of a SU 30 wouldn't it become a SU trail which disappeared because of it was shot down by PAF. It is very clear that the SU 30 was killed before Abhi's Bison.


Think about the market those god awful south Asian news shows are marketed to. They are the equivalent to the tabloid newspapers in the UK. They aim at the dumber segment of society and give them what they want to hear. I can't watch them anymore they are just the worst......

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Dubious said:


> multiple threads running and merged into a single one!


It's like "proverbial" hydra!!! No matter how many heads you cut off a new one will emerge...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Shane

Tejas Spokesman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183114836692999
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183117764349954
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183119710515201



The legendary level of panic being displayed by IAF, is making it undoubtedly, the laughing stock for the world to witness and enjoy.

They actually went ahead and showed their radar charts, lol, kudos to ISPR for baiting yet another hilarity out of IAF at this point in conflict.

They actually showed the radar grabs tracking Abhi-none-done following the F16D lurking around the LOC, according to their own claims - the D is very important here, the chart also confirms that Abhi was lured into a well laid trap, lol.

By now it is a well known fact that Abhi had lost radio contact with control which was calling him back, due to jamming. 

They then also showed the point of disapearence of F16, lol...which in all eventuality, just switched on ALQ xxx(xx) Pod and vanished from the radar to the bemusement of its trappers and bewilderment of Abhi who found him self ejecting seconds soon after as the very well laid plan went straight up Indias well laid @rse and exploded.

No wonder all our F16s are accounted for and all IAF is reduced to showing the world is an F16 radar signature disappearing, exactly what it was supposed to do, lol.

Good luck to IAF and the Indian nation gone bonkers, trying to cover up a spanking in broad day light, while themselves showing its proof to the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## AsianLion

India has been made a wild dog and puppy at the same time....literally and figuratively snubbed by Pakistan and USA and ofcourse Indians lying after lying.....self-goals did the rest of humilations that their own dhotis are leaking heavily unable to hide the utmost shame anywhere.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

ziaulislam said:


>


What if they now say Su-30 shot F-16 down......


----------



## AsianLion

Shane said:


> The legendary level of panic being displayed by IAF, is making it undoubtedly, the laughing stock for the world to witness and enjoy.
> 
> They actually went ahead and showed their radar charts, lol, kudos to ISPR for baiting yet another hilarity out of IAF at this point in conflict.
> 
> They actually showed the radar grabs tracking Abhi-none-done following the F16D lurking around the LOC, according to their own claims - the D is very important here, the chart also confirms that Abhi was lured into a well laid trap, lol.
> 
> By now it is a well known fact that Abhi had lost radio contact with control which was calling him back, due to jamming.
> 
> They then also showed the point of disapearence of F16, lol...which in all eventuality, just switched on ALQ xxx(xx) Pod and vanished from the radar to the bemusement of its trappers and bewilderment of Abhi who found him self ejecting seconds soon after as the very well laid plan went straight up Indias well laid @rse and exploded.
> 
> No wonder all our F16s are accounted for and all IAF is reduced to showing the world is an F16 radar signature disappearing, exactly what it was supposed to do, lol.
> 
> Good luck to IAF and the Indian nation gone bonkers, trying to cover up a spanking in broad day light, while themselves showing its proof to the world.




Well said!

Has this way of defeat and humilation ever happened to any country in the history besides India,?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Shane

AsianUnion said:


> Well said!
> 
> Has this way of defeat and humilation ever happened to any country in the history besides India,?


And they are only making it worse by trying to cover it up for the benefit of Modi but in doing so, are exposing themselves as utterly unprofessional.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

AsianUnion said:


> Look at Russia when its jet was shot by Turkey, it was not hidden/covered up but Russia actually admitted it and came out loud to take revenge of it. India on the other hand is total opposite, a laughing lying clown in world.


I have to admit Turkey is luckier in that sense!!! At the least they have more of a _Mert_ as enemies...

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Death Professor

It's pointless to argue with a stuck up fool. The excuses are now down to:

1) Did the US count the F-16's from Jordan too?
2) Pakistan painted a JF17 as F16 to fool the US officials.
3) US can't accept a downed F16 because it will lower the value of F16.
4) Pakistan has bought journalists all over the world to defame India (btw, on one hand they call us a begging nation on other hand they tell us, we are rich enough to buy journalists internationally which India can't)

If some how some retard doesn't accept any of the above he will still try to save face of India by saying:

5) Ohh, it doesn't matter who actually won, Pakistan won the fight in perception. But still I can't really call it a Pakistan's victory because that is only a win in perception. 

One should ask that fk-tard that wars and fights are always about perception. No one here was in World war I/II, its all about perception. When the world accepts your point of view it means its over, you have won. If there is no evidence/proof then there is no perception. There has to be some thing to sway perception in your favor.

So all in all it was a Pakistan's victory, any indian fk-tard who thinks it was only a perception victory, then bring some thing to sway that perception otherwise shut your old narcissistic hole and sit the f down.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Joe Shearer

Keysersoze said:


> No It's more of statement that "Surgical strikes" are a way of claiming a victory without actually showing any result. It's a easy votes grabber to claim such things. And when the other side denies anything having happened you shout "Cover up by the other side!" Unfortunately in this case they pushed it too far and the results are still being argued on this forum.



That continues. Now two former chiefs of Army staff (among many others) have gone on record against politicising these encounters on the borders or across the borders; ironically, one of them, V. K. Singh, is actually a junior minister in the administration.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## baqai

If Abhi-none-done did shot something and he is pretty sure about it, is their a possibility that the "blip" was their heli which went down due to friendly fire? 

By the talking of abhi, where has he been lately? i would be expecting him to do few brand endorsements since he is their "Hero No 1"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keysersoze

Joe Shearer said:


> That continues. Now two former chiefs of Army staff (among many others) have gone on record against politicising these encounters on the borders or across the borders; ironically, one of them, V. K. Singh, is actually a junior minister in the administration.


Well What was it that Von Clausewicz said about War? Perhaps this bloody nose is what was needed to cool this kind of nonsense. This is not Israel vs Lebanon or the Gaza strip. This has the potential to go nuclear.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Umar Nazir

Updated on 27 Feb 2019

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Trailer23

baqai said:


> If Abhi-none-done did shot something and he is pretty sure about it, is their a possibility that the "blip" was their heli which went down due to friendly fire?


When & where has he said anything since we handed him over a month back?

All we saw were pics of him in a Military Hospital meeting that Nirmala Sitha-WhatsHerFace. I would love for WikiLeaks to get a hold of a copy of his DeBrief. Its just a guess, but I don't think we'll be hearing from him for another month or so - or atleast until the General Elections aren't over.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## AsianLion

Shane said:


> And they are only making it worse by trying to cover it up for the benefit of Modi but in doing so, are exposing themselves as utterly unprofessional.




Heard Pakistan actually wants Modi to be reelected as PM India, only that the power in centre for Modi and BJP will be distributed and not majority this time as better benefit.



Umar Nazir said:


> View attachment 551575
> 
> Updated on 27 Feb 2019




Same Like the Pakistan vs India cricket matches disparity of victory and defeats. Pak won 74 matches vs India’s 54.

The IAF vs PAF tally is far larger of 126 IAF losses vs 26 PAF losses.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HRK

Shane said:


> They actually went ahead and showed their radar charts





Shane said:


> They actually showed the radar grabs tracking Abhi-none-done following the F16D lurking around the LOC, according to their own claims - the D is very important here, the chart also confirms that Abhi was lured into a well laid trap, lol.


can you plz post the link of that chart ...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Vortex

Joe Shearer said:


> That continues. Now two former chiefs of Army staff (among many others) have gone on record against politicising these encounters on the borders or across the borders; ironically, one of them, V. K. Singh, is actually a junior minister in the administration.




Had the outcome of these skirmishes been in indians favor, then none of them would have spoken against what is running in Bollywoodish indian nation.

Jooth pe jooth bhol key ab indians are like headless chicken.


----------



## Signalian

Chakar The Great said:


> According to fleet data from @AviationWeek, out of Pakistan's total 76 F-16s, 13 are from Jordan. The breakdown (H/t @TheDEWLine):
> F-16A Block 1-15 MLU: 24
> F-16B Block 1-15 MLU: 21
> F-16A Block 1-15: 9 (Jordan)
> F-16B Block 1-15: 4 (Jordan)
> F-16C Block 52: 12
> F-16D Block 52: 6
> 
> Getting a lot of qs on whether the US included the F-16s Pakistan bought from Jordan in its count. The answer is *YES*: even third-party transfers of US equipment must go through the US government.
> 
> 
> Source:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183187054366720







Originally,
F-16 Block 15 A/B (1983-1987)
2 + 4 + 26 + 8 = 40 ( 9 crashed) 
Remaining = 31 

Then PAF was slated to get 28 more F-16 Block 15 OCU A/B from original order of embargoed jets, but only 14 arrived. The remaining 14 are still with USN for aggressor training i presume.
6 + 5 + 7 + 10 = 28
Delivered = 14 

New order F-16 Block 52+ C/D = 18 

F-16 Block 15 ADF A/B from Jordan = 13

Adding 31 + 14 + 18 + 13 = 76 (Total F-16's in service)



Death Professor said:


> It's pointless to argue with a stuck up fool. The excuses are now down to:
> 
> 1) Did the US count the F-16's from Jordan too?
> 2) Pakistan painted a JF17 as F16 to fool the US officials.
> 3) US can't accept a downed F16 because it will lower the value of F16.
> 4) Pakistan has bought journalists all over the world to defame India (btw, on one hand they call us a begging nation on other hand they tell us, we are rich enough to buy journalists internationally which India can't)
> 
> If some how some retard doesn't accept any of the above he will still try to save face of India by saying:
> 
> 5) Ohh, it doesn't matter who actually won, Pakistan won the fight in perception. But still I can't really call it a Pakistan's victory because that is only a win in perception.
> 
> One should ask that fk-tard that wars and fights are always about perception. No one here was in World war I/II, its all about perception. When the world accepts your point of view it means its over, you have won. If there is no evidence/proof then there is no perception. There has to be some thing to sway perception in your favor.
> 
> So all in all it was a Pakistan's victory, any indian fk-tard who thinks it was only a perception victory, then bring some thing to sway that perception otherwise shut your old narcissistic hole and sit the f down.


Tech teams from USA are rotated at PAF bases housing F-16's, any F-16 loss cannot be hidden.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Falcon26

Tejas Spokesman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183114836692999
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183117764349954
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183119710515201



Ejaz Haider has already destroyed this yet again Bollywood fiction


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114271814564364293

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114272096161603584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114269039218573312

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114206756496990209

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Slides

Falcon26 said:


> Former PAF pilot Ejaz Haider has already destroyed this yet again Bollywood fiction



He's not a former pilot. Don't make stuff up please.


----------



## Meejee

I guess you are talking about this debrief of RF2008 (part 2 time stamp 3:35)

Part#1





Part#2








Khafee said:


> I remember hearing that too.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Falcon26

Slides said:


> He's not a former pilot. Don't make stuff up please.



Are you sure? I have always assumed he was a fighter pilot


----------



## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114334939036770304

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Wow

Beast said:


> I am wondering why IAF never claim to shot down JF-17 but instead F-16 which can be accounted for by US?
> 
> They can even claim shot down 10 JF-17 since it is not able to account for by an independent third party? *Are Indian stupid?*

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## waraich66

India claims that one of its MiG-21 fighter jets shot down a Pakistani F-16 [File: Akhtar Soomro/Reuters]

_Business Insider_: *The US is dumping cold water on India's claim it shot down a Pakistani F-16*

* The US inspected Pakistan's fighter inventory after a February dogfight, in which India claimed that one of its MiG-21 Bison aircraft shot down a Pakistani F-16, and found nothing missing, Foreign Policy reported on Thursday.
* The report followed others indicating that Indian pilots had missed their targets in the air raid on Pakistan in an embarrassing failure.
* "As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians," an expert told Foreign Policy. 

India proudly claimed that one of its Russian-designed MiG-21 fighters shot down one of Pakistan's US-made F-16s before being downed by a Pakistani missile in a dogfight in February, but a US inventory of Pakistan's fighters found nothing missing, Foreign Policy reported on Thursday, citing two senior US defense officials.

Tensions between the two nuclear-armed rivals hit levels not seen in decades in February after militants based in Pakistan killed 40 Indian paramilitary police in a suicide bombing in Indian-controlled Kashmir. 

*Read more* ....

*WNU Editor: *India is still sticking to its claim that it shot down a Pakistani F-16 .... *Indian Air Forces Refute US Media Report Saying No Pak F-16 Was Down in February* (Al Jazeera). More here .... *Have Proof Pakistani F-16 Shot Down, Says Air Force; Refutes US Journal Report* (NDTV).

*More News On The U.S. Denying Indian Claims That A Pakistani F-16 Was Shot Down In February*

U.S. count shows no Pakistan F-16s shot down in Indian battle: report -- Reuters
India Never Actually Shot Down Pakistani F-16 in Kashmir Clash, New Report Says -- Time/Bloomberg
US count of Pakistan's F-16 fighter jets found none of them missing: Report -- Times of India
India's claim of downing Pakistani F-16 thrown in doubt after US report -- The National
Pakistan calls for 'truth' from India on aerial dogfight -- Al Jazeera

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Amigator

Indian News Agency reporting level

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Safriz

Now the whole world is denying Indian claims But India busy making a fool of themselves

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Asimzranger

Indian only accept there narrative no matter what....Indians are like this

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CodeforFood

Joe Shearer said:


> I agree. Very many Indians agree. In fact, many retired senior officers of the Indian armed forces have also broken their silence and asked that these events should not be projected falsely for political advantage.
> 
> The idea of a victory in the matter of two sets of planes raiding each other's territory is indeed ludicrous. It can occur only to those minds starved of recognition in other respects.
> 
> 
> 
> Presumably a polite way of stating that Pakistan does not accept that surgical strikes are surgical strikes until and unless so certified by ISPR. That is natural and understandable.
> 
> The use of the term, in this instance, is another example of self-serving political spin. However, such occurrences, cross-border raids, are nothing new. On either side.
> 
> Taking these raids seriously or not seriously is perhaps more appropriately left to commanders on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> True.
> 
> 
> 
> What has emerged clearly is that Pakistan may have done better or worse in the exchanges in the air; that is a moot point. Pakistan has certainly won a great victory in the war of perception, in the information war. That should be a matter of chagrin for the vaunted BJP information war apparatus.
> 
> It is not without significance that the Pakistani commander of the information war was first to get his just deserts in terms of military recognition of his worth.
> 
> 
> 
> ISPR is naturally careful to say what is needed to be said in appropriate measure and at appropriate intervals. Quite understandable. And something that can be helped, of course.


Instead of finding solice in delusion. Do a fact check on what is verified and the outcome would be the victory for this particular engagement (however small or big) for Pakistan. both in terms of control of information and also the collateral damage. It only takes a big man to accept it so that path to repair and improvement can be identified and followed.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TsAr

HRK said:


> can you plz post the link of that chart ...


As per Indian media it was only showed to some anchors behind close doors and that to just a few seconds clip.



Falcon26 said:


> Are you sure? I have always assumed he was a fighter pilot


He is a senior editor with a news channel

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Slides

Falcon26 said:


> Are you sure? I have always assumed he was a fighter pilot



Former army officer. That's it

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114115919586963457

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## thesolar65

Congratulation (It's irrelevant whether it is US Govt. or News paper) for counting 80 plus aircraft after 40 days.


----------



## Ultima Thule

thesolar65 said:


> Congratulation (It's irrelevant whether it is US Govt. or News paper) for counting 80 plus aircraft after 40 days.


they released this information now but they know since 27 FEB, get some shame @thesolar65

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## thesolar65

pakistanipower said:


> they released this information now but they know since 27 FEB, get some shame @thesolar65



To expect US to admit a Soviet era plane brought down an F16, that too one gifted to major non-Nato ally #*Pakistan*, at a time Washington, in collaboration with Rawalpindi, is paving the path for Taliban to takeover #*Afghanistan*, is not naivete but outright foolish. #*RealityCheck*


----------



## CrazyZ

thesolar65 said:


> Congratulation (It's irrelevant whether it is US Govt. or News paper) for counting 80 plus aircraft after 40 days.



Its been known for some time....All parties wanted things to cool down before making such announcements....It also better to wait until your elections get close....so Modi reaps the most political embarrassment in front of more rational Indians.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

BATMAN said:


> AMRAAM is not programmed to hit Indian aircrafts.





thesolar65 said:


> To expect US to admit a Soviet era plane brought down an F16, that too one gifted to major non-Nato ally #*Pakistan*, at a time Washington, in collaboration with Rawalpindi, is paving the path for Taliban to takeover #*Afghanistan*, is not naivete but outright foolish. #*RealityCheck*


I know it's bitter pill to swallow but accept it u lost two jets in a dog fight better luck next time.



CrazyZ said:


> Its been known for some time....All parties wanted things to cool down before making such announcements....It also better to wait until your elections get close....so Modi reaps the most political embarrassment in front of more rational Indians.


Dash Bhakts still gona vote for him Modi s statement,, ager Rafale hota to natiga Kuch aur hota,,, sums up everything.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Slides

thesolar65 said:


> Congratulation (It's irrelevant whether it is US Govt. or News paper) for counting 80 plus aircraft after 40 days.



They had to visit multiple bases and the F-16s were also on CAP duty you dolt.



thesolar65 said:


> To expect US to admit a Soviet era plane brought down an F16, that too one gifted to major non-Nato ally #*Pakistan*, at a time Washington, in collaboration with Rawalpindi, is paving the path for Taliban to takeover #*Afghanistan*, is not naivete but outright foolish. #*RealityCheck*



Why would they care? F-16s have been shot down by Mirages in the Greek-Turk air skirmishes. Hasn't affected their sales one bit. This is why Indian credibility is in the gutter today on the world stage.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Signalian

thesolar65 said:


> Congratulation (It's irrelevant whether it is US Govt. or News paper) for counting 80 plus aircraft after 40 days.


Has India produced downed F-16 wreckage after 40 days ?

Reactions: Like Like:
17


----------



## Ultima Thule

thesolar65 said:


> To expect US to admit a Soviet era plane brought down an F16, that too one gifted to major non-Nato ally #*Pakistan*, at a time Washington, in collaboration with Rawalpindi, is paving the path for Taliban to takeover #*Afghanistan*, is not naivete but outright foolish. #*RealityCheck*


and how on earh 2/2.5 gen interceptor shot down modern 4.5 F-16 armed with AIM-120 with only short range air to air missile on it and with a less radar range which can't fire BVR, and don't bring trash to the subject, you're humiliated @thesolar65

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Wow

thesolar65 said:


> To expect US to admit a Soviet era plane brought down an F16, that too one gifted to major non-Nato ally #*Pakistan*, at a time Washington, in collaboration with Rawalpindi, is paving the path for Taliban to takeover #*Afghanistan*, is not naivete but outright foolish. #*RealityCheck*




Yes Yes its all a conspiracy if the same pentagon said something against Pakistan you people would jumping up and down like monkeys

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## khanasifm

Too much time being wasted let’s move on iaf know they got big di78 in their behind now cannot think straight [emoji23] 

End of story let’s move on

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TheDarkKnight

thesolar65 said:


> Congratulation (It's irrelevant whether it is US Govt. or News paper) for counting 80 plus aircraft after 40 days.


Why? Is the gestation period of F16s less than 40 days, that lets these jets mate with each other to produce a new baby F16 for PAF to cover its losses?

These checks are most probably done per an agreed upon schedule or plan, and 40 days is rather very quick given the situation these days.



thesolar65 said:


> To expect US to admit a Soviet era plane brought down an F16, that too one gifted to major non-Nato ally #*Pakistan*, at a time Washington, in collaboration with Rawalpindi, is paving the path for Taliban to takeover #*Afghanistan*, is not naivete but outright foolish. #*RealityCheck*


Nothing was gifted … everything was paid for. So your narrative now includes a US conspiracy to *lie* in favor of Pakistan against Indian claims? The same US which you Indians were gleefully claiming as your new strategic partner, and is openly working with you out of the way in placing Masood Azhar on terror blacklist in UNSC??? WOW! I mean after this there is no use arguing with you folks.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Moonlight

thesolar65 said:


> Congratulation (It's irrelevant whether it is US Govt. or News paper) for counting 80 plus aircraft after 40 days.



Actually we were producing few of them in 39 days & on 40th we asked US to announce to the world that India is lying like all the time.

Pakistan with its “Na-Pak Saazish” again.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## TheDarkKnight

Kabotar said:


> Best Indian reply so far
> View attachment 551447


This really is genius. After all US does accuse China of copyright violations and reverse engineering ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Moonlight

Here’s the proof

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## CrazyZ

Moonlight said:


> Here’s the proof
> View attachment 551603



You forgot to spray paint on the contract number.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Philip the Arab

Damn, Indians really can't believe things even when faced with evidence. Makes me think they must have been given the "best" tech for their Su-30s from Israel when in reality they were given the monkey version. 

Also, off-topic but do you guys think IDF pilots are better than PAF pilots? I'm going to have to side with the IDF pilots simply because of their long history of being some of the best pilots in the world which Pakistan lacks.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

Moonlight said:


> Here’s the proof
> View attachment 551603


 good one ma'am @Moonlight

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cuirassier

Funny thing is that there was no F-16 wreckage found, yet somehow more than a billion people believe it was downed even 2 months later. Every claim made on assumptions and that "porkis" are hiding blah blah. comedy

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## untitled

TF141 said:


> Funny thing is that


Also funny is the absence of a demand for a Su30 fleet count

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## newb3e

Moonlight said:


> Here’s the proof
> View attachment 551603


desh drohi!! jee newj issi saboot ki talash may pagal howay jaa raha tha 40 din say! 

how traitor of you!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Amaa'n

Amigator said:


> Indian News Agency reporting level
> View attachment 551584
> View attachment 551585
> View attachment 551586


I already asked them to compair motor control of AIM120c5 that they showed to the one we have shown (although both different AAMs) ....and tell us which one exploded & eaten up the plane and which one was never even fired....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Microsoft

member.exe said:


> Also funny is the absence of a demand for a Su30 fleet count



I am amazed at how little talk there is about asking Indians to claim the second plane. All Indian claims have been debunked it is time to ask the real questions!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## newb3e

TF141 said:


> Funny thing is that there was no F-16 wreckage found, yet somehow more than a billion people believe it was downed even 2 months later. Every claim made on assumptions and that "porkis" are hiding blah blah. comedy



crazy right!! imagine the level of stupidity in ganga heaven! 1.3 billion brain dead bakhts just following 1 self obsessed,delusi delu chai wala!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## untitled

Microsoft said:


> I am amazed at how little talk there is about asking Indians to claim the second plane.


For that to happen someone from the other side will have to come to terms with the fact that there is a grain of truth in the Pakistani counter claims. Their generals and media have completely torpedoed such a thought process to develop



TF141 said:


> there was no F-16 wreckage found,


Their satellites can spot holes in the roofs of schools yet they can't produce a wreckage of a jet on a sunny day

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Microsoft

member.exe said:


> For that to happen someone from the other side will have to come to terms with the fact that there is a grain of truth in the Pakistani counter claims. Their generals and media have completely torpedoed such a thought process to develop



That and Pakistanis aren't raising their voices. If questions are asked and Indians deny it so be it. Once the truth is revealed there will be more egg on their faces. Every Pakistani should be asking about SU-30, there is no reason to discuss F-16 claim seriously, especially with Indians now.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Cookie Monster

Joe Shearer said:


> Why is it that in discussing warfare, or external relations, or legislation, or dam-building, or shoes, some people think of rape and condoms? Stuck in a time-warp?
> 
> The fired AIM120s were proof that the PAF had used F16s in combat, something vehemently denied at first, that is slowly creeping into the narrative as the days pass. Progress can be measured by comparing your ISPR statements and releases; nothing further is needed.


Joe I disagree. Quite obviously F16s were acquired to be used and not to be displayed behind glass cases. When ISPR said they weren't used...it was in regards to the strike operation carried out...as in the jets used to perform strikes inside India werent F16s. PAF used H4 SOW, which I think can only be fired by PAF's Mirages and JF17s.

Of course PAF would've also taken into account other scenarios. There was a slim chance of not being detected and carrying out the strike mission. Given the advance notice that Pak will strike back, IAF would've been on high alert...meaning a high chance of IAF engaging PAF. For this possibilty there must've been PAF AWACS in the air with constant patrolling of other PAF assets(like F16s). Once IAF engaged...other assets like AWACS, F16s, and Dassault Falcons(according to PDF) were utilized.

So in conclusion PAF didnt use F16s in that mission(the strike mission). They were only used in the aftermath of the strikes.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Myth_buster_1

AsianUnion said:


> An American replies to Lara. Salisgman:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113974919325470722





thesolar65 said:


> To expect US to admit a Soviet era plane brought down an F16, that too one gifted to major non-Nato ally #*Pakistan*, at a time Washington, in collaboration with Rawalpindi, is paving the path for Taliban to takeover #*Afghanistan*, is not naivete but outright foolish. #*RealityCheck*



One thing is for sure, indian propaganda factories produces better quality brainwashed citizens then North Korea.


This R-73 that India claims shot down F-16 is still partially attached to the aircraft itself. The R-73 did explode but on its own pylon.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Indian officials insist that they downed a Pakistani F-16 on 27 February, the same day during which Pakistan successfully downed an Indian MIG-21 before rescuing and tending to the pilot who has now been released back to India. It has now been over a month since India first made its F-16 claim and in that period, no hard evidence has been produced to back the initial claim.

Now, a report from the United States citing top American military officials has confirmed that all of Pakistan’s F-16s are accounted for. Given America’s pivot towards India, a country now viewed by Washington as a useful partner in the neo-Cold War against China, it is significant that India’s lie about the F-16 was so big that even an strategic partner could not play along with such utter fiction.

This itself helps to explain that while the US is actively courting India, the nature of contemporary Pakistan-US relations cannot be categorised through a zero-sum prism.

Last year was a nadir in Pakistan-US relations after Donald Trump brazenly accused Islamabad of creating a “safe haven” for radials. That being said, as Trump has a penchant for cutting “aid” and military subsidies to foreign partners, this defamatory statement might well have been little more than an excuse that was needed in order to convince the US “deep state” to cancel $300 million in “military aid” (more accurately called reparations) to Pakistan.

Since then, two major things have happened. First of all, as Trump remains determined to extricate his country from the blood-soaked quagmire in Afghanistan, many in the US including Special Representative for Afghanistan Reconciliation Zalmay Khalilzad have come to realise that Pakistan’s approach to Afghanistan had been right all along and that since 2001, the US has ultimately followed the failed model of the Soviet invasion of the 1980s. As such, the US now needs Pakistani assistance to help guide an all-parties peace process which will see a reformed Taliban formalise its powerful de facto role as Afghanistan’s most prominent political force.

Seeing as such a peace process is scarcely possible without Pakistan’s diplomatic assistance, the US is actively rolling back the anti-Pakistan sentiments of last year at the same time as peace talks between Washington and the Taliban intensify.

Secondly, recent acts of unprovoked Indian aggression against Pakistani territory in the aftermath of the Pulwama incident have made the US reconsider its position on India in one crucial respect. The US will continue to strengthen its partnership with India as a means of trying to provoke China, whilst the US will also attempt to groom India into a position of becoming less reliant on Russian weapons and more reliant on American ones. But what the US does not want is a new India-Pakistan war and as such, while the US (like most nations on the planet) does not care about civilian life in Kashmir, the US realises that as state sanctioned violence against Kashmiri civilians intensifies, the chances of a new war increase.

As such, while the US was clearly not entirely displeased with Premier Modi’s exploiting of the events in Pulwama as an election stunt, the US also appears to have realised that unless issued with strict marching orders, Modi will take things too far if given the chance. While the US still needs to keep up appearances in respect of playing into India’s perverse narrative on Kashmir, Washington could barely disguise how badly it was irked by Modi’s dangerous game of brinkmanship.

Many in the US appear to have been caught off guard by just how unhinged Modi actually is, but this is no longer the case. As such, the US will remain happy to keep Modi’s aggression tethered to a short leash, but Washington now realises that Modi could become a liability if the leash is not gripped tightly. For Donald Trump there was also a personal element to the disappointment in Modi’s antics as India’s failed “surgical strike 2.0” on Pakistan tended to overshadow his prominent meeting with Kim Jong-un in Hanoi.

Because of this, the US will likely become more active in minimising the potential for conflict between India and Pakistan, not least because any further attempts by India to destabilise Pakistan will clearly have an impact on US attempts to restore order to Afghanistan after 17 years of chaos.

In this sense, while clearly growing more favourable towards India and less so towards Pakistan, when it comes to reigning in the excesses of destabilising Indian aggression and outlandishly provocative lies, the US still seeks to balance relations between Islamabad and New Delhi in order to effectively keep the capricious Modi on what amounts to a short leash. To be sure, the US wants Modi to be its anti-China attack dog in the region, but Washington certainly does not want Modi to trigger a nuclear war with Pakistan by taking matters too far.

Against this background, it is not difficult to understand why Donald Trump said the following on Pakistan Day:

“We’ll be meeting with Pakistan [leadership]. I think our relationship right now is very good with Pakistan”.

While Trump is not likely to restore the $300 million in “aid” owing to his overall policy of wanting partners to pay the US for “protection”, the US leader has clearly come to see that the US needs Pakistan in order to bring stability to Afghanistan. Washington has also been able to see that Pakistan is important as a bulwark against Indian expansionism that would clearly run amok in the region if countries like the US, China and Russia weren’t there to put the brakes on the BJP’s aggressive agenda.

Finally, as Donald Trump tends to enjoy the presence of charismatic world leaders, especially those who present a challenge to the American status quo (Kim Jong-un and Trump’s self described “good friend” Xi Jinping to name but two examples), Trump may well come to both respect and even like Imran Khan on a human level.

Imran Khan has stood out from his predecessors as a leader who can clearly, forcefully and magnetically articulate Pakistan’s position to international audiences. This has certainly not been lost on Trump and as such, the sooner he and Imran Khan meet, the better it will be for all parties involved.

https://eurasiafuture.com/2019/04/05/us-exposes-indian-lies-over-f-16-downing/

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Safriz

Indians be like 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114395357973295105

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## SBUS-CXK

@Hamartia Antidote @Get Ya Wig Split A liar expert exposes another liar.

@Peaceful Civilian @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Beast @OsmanAli98 @Zibago @The Eagle @Windjammer
@coffee_cup @*Mangus Ortus Novem @Khafee @*I S I @*Sully3*


----------



## Dubious

@Two do you not see we already have a thread running on this issue?


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Dubious said:


> @Two do you not see we already have a thread running on this issue?


Sorry, I don't know.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wow

Philip the Arab said:


> Damn, Indians really can't believe things even when faced with evidence. Makes me think they must have been given the "best" tech for their Su-30s from Israel when in reality they were given the* monkey version*.



Monkey version is the Pilot 




Philip the Arab said:


> Also, off-topic but do you guys think IDF pilots are better than PAF pilots? I'm going to have to side with the IDF pilots simply because of their long history of being some of the best pilots in the world which Pakistan lacks.



Sir Pakistan has some the pilots in the world

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SBUS-CXK

@*Get Ya Wig Split*


----------



## Dubious

Two said:


> Indian officials insist that they downed a Pakistani F-16 on 27 February, the same day during which Pakistan successfully downed an Indian MIG-21 before rescuing and tending to the pilot who has now been released back to India. It has now been over a month since India first made its F-16 claim and in that period, no hard evidence has been produced to back the initial claim.
> 
> Now, a report from the United States citing top American military officials has confirmed that all of Pakistan’s F-16s are accounted for. Given America’s pivot towards India, a country now viewed by Washington as a useful partner in the neo-Cold War against China, it is significant that India’s lie about the F-16 was so big that even an strategic partner could not play along with such utter fiction.
> 
> This itself helps to explain that while the US is actively courting India, the nature of contemporary Pakistan-US relations cannot be categorised through a zero-sum prism.
> 
> Last year was a nadir in Pakistan-US relations after Donald Trump brazenly accused Islamabad of creating a “safe haven” for radials. That being said, as Trump has a penchant for cutting “aid” and military subsidies to foreign partners, this defamatory statement might well have been little more than an excuse that was needed in order to convince the US “deep state” to cancel $300 million in “military aid” (more accurately called reparations) to Pakistan.
> 
> Since then, two major things have happened. First of all, as Trump remains determined to extricate his country from the blood-soaked quagmire in Afghanistan, many in the US including Special Representative for Afghanistan Reconciliation Zalmay Khalilzad have come to realise that Pakistan’s approach to Afghanistan had been right all along and that since 2001, the US has ultimately followed the failed model of the Soviet invasion of the 1980s. As such, the US now needs Pakistani assistance to help guide an all-parties peace process which will see a reformed Taliban formalise its powerful de facto role as Afghanistan’s most prominent political force.
> 
> Seeing as such a peace process is scarcely possible without Pakistan’s diplomatic assistance, the US is actively rolling back the anti-Pakistan sentiments of last year at the same time as peace talks between Washington and the Taliban intensify.
> 
> Secondly, recent acts of unprovoked Indian aggression against Pakistani territory in the aftermath of the Pulwama incident have made the US reconsider its position on India in one crucial respect. The US will continue to strengthen its partnership with India as a means of trying to provoke China, whilst the US will also attempt to groom India into a position of becoming less reliant on Russian weapons and more reliant on American ones. But what the US does not want is a new India-Pakistan war and as such, while the US (like most nations on the planet) does not care about civilian life in Kashmir, the US realises that as state sanctioned violence against Kashmiri civilians intensifies, the chances of a new war increase.
> 
> As such, while the US was clearly not entirely displeased with Premier Modi’s exploiting of the events in Pulwama as an election stunt, the US also appears to have realised that unless issued with strict marching orders, Modi will take things too far if given the chance. While the US still needs to keep up appearances in respect of playing into India’s perverse narrative on Kashmir, Washington could barely disguise how badly it was irked by Modi’s dangerous game of brinkmanship.
> 
> Many in the US appear to have been caught off guard by just how unhinged Modi actually is, but this is no longer the case. As such, the US will remain happy to keep Modi’s aggression tethered to a short leash, but Washington now realises that Modi could become a liability if the leash is not gripped tightly. For Donald Trump there was also a personal element to the disappointment in Modi’s antics as India’s failed “surgical strike 2.0” on Pakistan tended to overshadow his prominent meeting with Kim Jong-un in Hanoi.
> 
> Because of this, the US will likely become more active in minimising the potential for conflict between India and Pakistan, not least because any further attempts by India to destabilise Pakistan will clearly have an impact on US attempts to restore order to Afghanistan after 17 years of chaos.
> 
> In this sense, while clearly growing more favourable towards India and less so towards Pakistan, when it comes to reigning in the excesses of destabilising Indian aggression and outlandishly provocative lies, the US still seeks to balance relations between Islamabad and New Delhi in order to effectively keep the capricious Modi on what amounts to a short leash. To be sure, the US wants Modi to be its anti-China attack dog in the region, but Washington certainly does not want Modi to trigger a nuclear war with Pakistan by taking matters too far.
> 
> Against this background, it is not difficult to understand why Donald Trump said the following on Pakistan Day:
> 
> “We’ll be meeting with Pakistan [leadership]. I think our relationship right now is very good with Pakistan”.
> 
> While Trump is not likely to restore the $300 million in “aid” owing to his overall policy of wanting partners to pay the US for “protection”, the US leader has clearly come to see that the US needs Pakistan in order to bring stability to Afghanistan. Washington has also been able to see that Pakistan is important as a bulwark against Indian expansionism that would clearly run amok in the region if countries like the US, China and Russia weren’t there to put the brakes on the BJP’s aggressive agenda.
> 
> Finally, as Donald Trump tends to enjoy the presence of charismatic world leaders, especially those who present a challenge to the American status quo (Kim Jong-un and Trump’s self described “good friend” Xi Jinping to name but two examples), Trump may well come to both respect and even like Imran Khan on a human level.
> 
> Imran Khan has stood out from his predecessors as a leader who can clearly, forcefully and magnetically articulate Pakistan’s position to international audiences. This has certainly not been lost on Trump and as such, the sooner he and Imran Khan meet, the better it will be for all parties involved.
> 
> https://eurasiafuture.com/2019/04/05/us-exposes-indian-lies-over-f-16-downing/


I am just going to merge it so that you can have access to the main thread and discussions that have already occurred


----------



## Moonlight

newb3e said:


> desh drohi!! jee newj issi saboot ki talash may pagal howay jaa raha tha 40 din say!
> 
> how traitor of you!



I wanted to see all that fun before leaking it out


----------



## untitled

Moonlight said:


> I wanted to see all that fun before leaking it out


Now burn an Su30 please

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## crankthatskunk

thesolar65 said:


> To expect US to admit a Soviet era plane brought down an F16, that too one gifted to major non-Nato ally #*Pakistan*, at a time Washington, in collaboration with Rawalpindi, is paving the path for Taliban to takeover #*Afghanistan*, is not naivete but outright foolish. #*RealityCheck*



When did you see your brain surgeon last!!! Hurry up make an appointment, it is over due.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mshan44

*India Never Actually Shot Down Pakistani F-16 in Kashmir Clash, New Report Says*


http://time.com/5564980/india-never...dium=social&utm_campaign=social-share-article

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PakSword

Shane said:


> Hi, Iss buddhay ko maen kutch arsa pehlay completely humiliate kar chuka hon after which he ran away as usual. His title should be PPL Pompous Professional Liar.


Main ne bhi iss ki sahi wali phenti lagai thi.. tab se ignore list main hun

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Shane

HRK said:


> can you plz post the link of that chart ...



IAF reportedly held a briefing for Indian Journalists. I was only taking apart the following as was posted per Indian journalists account who attended the briefing by IAF apparently showcasing the two Radar charts:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## newb3e

Moonlight said:


> I wanted to see all that fun before leaking it out


having fun at the expense of supa powa ego and prestige is not advisable dont forget their power and reach they can always launch a sirgkal codenamed "Operation Moonlight" capture you and showcase you as pulwama attack master mind on their supa factual media!!


----------



## SBUS-CXK

@Joe Shearer @Quibbler @*Surya 1 @mirage2K no country can rely on lies to become a global power.

India, please stop deceiving the world and your people.

*

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## AfrazulMandal

No propaganda is buried.

Sorry.

The Indian propaganda was aimed at Indians. 

That remains very successful.



newb3e said:


> having fun at the expense of supa powa ego and prestige is not advisable dont forget their power and reach they can always launch a sirgkal codenamed "Operation Moonlight" capture you and showcase you as pulwama attack master mind on their supa factual media!!


Compared to the strikes that Pakistan routinely does on India (using deinable assets and otherwise), the Indian Armed forces have nothing to show for.

The good news is that the new Government will probably find a solution to the Kashmir and other issues. The chest beating of failed masochism will end.



member.exe said:


> Also funny is the absence of a demand for a Su30 fleet count


Because that would show at least 6 Su30 MKIs missing.



CrazyZ said:


> Its been known for some time....All parties wanted things to cool down before making such announcements....It also better to wait until your elections get close....so Modi reaps the most political embarrassment in front of more rational Indians.


Very sorry to say this. But there are no rational Indians in India.

The situation is thoroughly polarised. 

Hindus, by and large, believe in the story of the downed F 16.

Muslims don't care as long as there is peace. Plus, we lament how Modi milked the disaster.

A whole squadron wiped out. Tens of dead and wounded soldiers on the ground. No Pakistani losses.
Even a failed satellite explosion is being called a deliberate missile hit. And milked.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NA71

Another blow to IAF claim today:

*India Never Actually Shot Down Pakistani F-16 in Kashmir Clash, New Report Says -TIME*

http://time.com/5564980/india-never-shot-pakistani-plane-kashmir/


----------



## AfrazulMandal

EVERYBODY knows this.


----------



## Mrc

No we did shoot an f 16 .. How u ask.. 

Me tell u 

Mig wanted to fire mijjiles but f 16 too smart... So mig oversmart u see... 

It throw itjs fuel tank at f shixteen .. Now tank did not hit but passing wind (from tank not mig pilot) brought f shixteen down

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reichsmarschall

Falcon26 said:


> Are you sure? I have always assumed he was a fighter pilot


he is an army guy

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## usman012

AfrazulMandal said:


> EVERYBODY knows this.


Yes ,everybody knows your Mig 21 was shot down.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## alee92nawaz

Ese he nahi F-16 sun kay poray Hindustan ki phat ni jati. Pak should buy more F-16s. Some nations are thinking of retiring

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## crankthatskunk

AfrazulMandal said:


> Because that would show at least 6 Su30 MKIs missing.
> 
> A whole squadron wiped out. Tens of dead and wounded soldiers on the ground. No Pakistani losses.
> Even a failed satellite explosion is being called a deliberate missile hit. And milked.



You have made three startling "disclosures" in your post. I have seen your earlier claim that India lost 11 jets on 27th Feb. Now you are specifically saying that 6 Su 30 shot down by PAF. That's what I think too, it had to be more losses, considering the amount of Aim- 120 and other AAM fired by PAF. 

Also the casualties on the ground had to be massive, considering 11 H4 were dropped by PAF. 

Explosion of the Satellite is the new thing I have heard. 

Your sources please!!


----------



## aman_rai

https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-...ht-with-iaf/story-Rw4gSknuuSBnMc2EyYe62H.html


----------



## Stealth

Ahhahahah another BS fabricated news... more humiliation on the way... in the entire article, there is nothing like what the subject title is... Indian Media and govt face saving again broadcast Fake news lol “Defence dept only informed this to Hindustan times” on the other side, Pentagon correspondent Lara Officially seconds US govt official information about Pakistan F16s. LPC Indians



aman_rai said:


> https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-...ht-with-iaf/story-Rw4gSknuuSBnMc2EyYe62H.html

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Joe Shearer

Trailer23 said:


> When & where has he said anything since we handed him over a month back?
> 
> All we saw were pics of him in a Military Hospital meeting that Nirmala Sitha-WhatsHerFace. I would love for WikiLeaks to get a hold of a copy of his DeBrief. Its just a guess, but I don't think we'll be hearing from him for another month or so - or atleast until the General Elections aren't over.



He's back in his squadron, and you are probably right, nothing from him until the Model Code of Conduct is over. They've already reprimanded the UP Chief Minister, and that third rate jobless hack who is Vice of the Niti Ayog, and the Governor of Rajasthan is in the queue.



Vortex said:


> Had the outcome of these skirmishes been in indians favor, then none of them would have spoken against what is running in Bollywoodish indian nation.
> 
> Jooth pe jooth bhol key ab indians are like headless chicken.



Had Pakistan won any of the wars it waged against its neighbour, then none of the fanbois would have been in such a poisonous mood.

We would not have had to face a monstrosity like a two-headed chicken.



CodeforFood said:


> Instead of finding solice in delusion. Do a fact check on what is verified and the outcome would be the victory for this particular engagement (however small or big) for Pakistan. both in terms of control of information and also the collateral damage. It only takes a big man to accept it so that path to repair and improvement can be identified and followed.



Done.

Only utter idiots would exult over a skirmish of planes where one is shot down.



Cookie Monster said:


> Joe I disagree. Quite obviously F16s were acquired to be used and not to be displayed behind glass cases. When ISPR said they weren't used...it was in regards to the strike operation carried out...as in the jets used to perform strikes inside India werent F16s. PAF used H4 SOW, which I think can only be fired by PAF's Mirages and JF17s.
> 
> Of course PAF would've also taken into account other scenarios. There was a slim chance of not being detected and carrying out the strike mission. Given the advance notice that Pak will strike back, IAF would've been on high alert...meaning a high chance of IAF engaging PAF. For this possibilty there must've been PAF AWACS in the air with constant patrolling of other PAF assets(like F16s). Once IAF engaged...other assets like AWACS, F16s, and Dassault Falcons(according to PDF) were utilized.
> 
> So in conclusion PAF didnt use F16s in that mission(the strike mission). They were only used in the aftermath of the strikes.



I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.

My point is that the ISPR, in keeping with a long tradition with the Pakistani military, has been revealing facts in a graduated fashion, and unpleasant facts only under pressure. 

Is your excellent analysis above in any way contradictory of this finding?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Windjammer

*And the clowns continue with their circus.*

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## alibaz

Windjammer said:


> *And the clowns continue with their circus.*



And all missiles and gun rounds of Bison had been found intact and shown on media by Pakistani authorities. Poor Abinandan did not find a chance to fire even a single gun round. Khisiani billi khamba nochay

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Cookie Monster

Joe Shearer said:


> I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.
> 
> My point is that the ISPR, in keeping with a long tradition with the Pakistani military, has been revealing facts in a graduated fashion, and unpleasant facts only under pressure.
> 
> Is your excellent analysis above in any way contradictory of this finding?


Disagreeing with u saying that ISPR lied about F16s not being used. I'm saying that u r misconstruing ISPR's statement. When they said F16 wasn't used...it means F16 wasn't used in strike operation. Evident by the fact that the stand off weapons used aren't at all compatible with F16s. As for AMRAAM being shown by IAF...again AMRAAM is an air to air missile, which must have been used to engage IAF jets that were scrambled to engage PAF assets carrying out the ground strikes.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mangus Ortus Novem

Windjammer said:


> *And the clowns continue with their circus.*






_Teacher, teacher...
They need no education
They need no school...

Teacher, teacher,
Leave those indians alone...._


Only solution is Truth Bombs....now even H.E PM IK is joining in bombing runs....

Waiting for Ms Mizari to drop the Truth Nukes... she is so merciless!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cookie Monster

Windjammer said:


> *And the clowns continue with their circus.*


That seems very convenient.


----------



## Vortex

Joe Shearer said:


> Had Pakistan won any of the wars it waged against its neighbour, then none of the fanbois would have been in such a poisonous mood.
> 
> We would not have had to face a monstrosity like a two-headed chicken.




You are talking about Modi, his followers and Indians media. No it’s not two-headed monstre chicken, it’s just Bahartis who don’t know from where hawa nikal ni hay. Hagay say ya pichay say.

Enjoy life

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Joe Shearer

Cookie Monster said:


> Disagreeing with u saying that ISPR lied about F16s not being used. I'm saying that u r misconstruing ISPR's statement. When they said F16 wasn't used...it means F16 wasn't used in strike operation. Evident by the fact that the stand off weapons used aren't at all compatible with F16s. As for AMRAAM being shown by IAF...again AMRAAM is an air to air missile, which must have been used to engage IAF jets that were scrambled to engage PAF assets carrying out the ground strikes.



I didn't say they lied; I said that they were economical with the truth, they didn't tell us everything.

This is a classic case of Musashi's advocating that one should drive one's opponent to fight a pillow.

The ISPR has very successfully walked away from the question of what happened to the other pilots, and converted it to one about whether or not an F-16 was shot down. That gives them the upper hand, and Indian analysts have completely forgotten about the core issue.



Vortex said:


> You are talking about Modi, his followers and Indians media. No it’s not two-headed monstre chicken, it’s just Bahartis who don’t know from where hawa nikal ni hay. Hagay say ya pichay say.
> 
> Enjoy life



@Vortex 
Once you can frame your arguments with less abuse, do let me know.


----------



## Windjammer

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> _Teacher, teacher...
> They need no education
> They need no school...
> 
> Teacher, teacher,
> Leave those indians alone...._
> 
> 
> Only solution is Truth Bombs....now even H.E PM IK is joining in bombing runs....
> 
> Waiting for Ms Mizari to drop the Truth Nukes... she is so merciless!





Cookie Monster said:


> That seems very convenient.





alibaz said:


> And all missiles and gun rounds of Bison had been found intact and shown on media by Pakistani authorities. Poor Abinandan did not find a chance to fire even a single gun round. Khisiani billi khamba nochay



Defeated, Humiliated and standing Exposed, if the Indians had any substance they would have had it splashed across the media from Delhi to Dacca.... but as the old proverb goes, ''To hide one lie, Thousand lies are needed.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## PurpleButcher

Windjammer said:


> *And the clowns continue with their circus.*



And world has lost all satellites which could have located the debris of our supposedly down F-16. It seems the entire universe has conspired against India

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## drunken-monke

https://twitter.com/search?q=#F16&src=tyah&lang=en


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114393538735804416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114234797054885888
well well, how much more are they going to squeeze out this evaporating lie? only indians can do it shamelessly.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Vortex

Joe Shearer said:


> Once you can frame your arguments with less abuse, do let me know.




Sorry sir if you feel offensed by indian own Bollywoodish dialogue.

I feel pity for indians we didn’t fully win wars, at least today indians wouldn’t have been in this state where they risked a nuclear war for internal politics.

Now World Powers should be worried about a so childish Indian state having nuclear weapons who launches agression just for internal political gains.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114456650159656960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114447699129053185

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Cookie Monster

Joe Shearer said:


> I didn't say they lied; I said that they were economical with the truth, they didn't tell us everything.


They dont have to tell everything...the whole "sensitive information" thing isn't only reserved for Indian armed forces.


Joe Shearer said:


> The ISPR has very successfully walked away from the question of what happened to the other pilots, and converted it to one about whether or not an F-16 was shot down. That gives them the upper hand, and Indian analysts have completely forgotten about the core issue.


They haven't really walked away from anything...at least Pakistanis are very interested in finding out what happened to other pilots.

The reason why Indian media and ppl affiliated(or in favor of) with other political parties(non BJP) are tearing into Indian claims is bcuz India was scant on proof to begin with and then one after another, their claims begin to fall apart. First there was a claim of about 300 terrorists being killed(from Indian media I think), which was then walked back. Then independent third party sources started releasing the comparison of pre and post Balakot strike satellite imagery showing no major damage to buildings...thus backing up Pak's claims and pics released of some trees being destroyed. India also denied initially Pak's claim of capturing Indian pilots and downing Indian jets...saying all pilots and planes are accounted for...only to backtrack once wreckage of Mig 21 and video of Abhinandan was released. Then there were claims of Mig 21 wreckage being the wreckage of an F16...also torn to shreds by everyone. The most recent one is this Indian claim of downing an F16 being refuted(pics of Abhinandan's mig21 missiles unfired and US count of F16s).

Conversely claims made by ISPR were corroborated one by one(though not all claims have yet been verified).
- Claimed India couldn't hit it's intended targets during its strike in Balakot...independently confirmed by satellite imagery
- Claimed it will reply in kind...then carried out the strike...confirmed by India itself during the press conference where they showed the AMRAAM.
- Claimed to shoot down a Mig 21...wreckage shown
- Claimed to have shot down a second Indian jet...remains a claim for now
- Claimed to have captured Indian pilots...one was shown(Abhinandan)...one verified the rest remain a claim
- Claimed none of the PAF's planes were downed...confirmed by US count.

So in this fog of war as more and more info is emerging...it seems to corroborate more of what Pak is claiming and seems to refute what India is claiming...so naturally its lending more credibility to Pak and eroding away India's credibility. Hence Indian claims are being scrutinized more and more with little attention being paid to Pak's remaining claims(of additional pilots and the second IAF jet destroyed).

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Trailer23

Windjammer said:


> *And the clowns continue with their circus.*


It isn't a grave of lies anymore.

More like mass grave. I'm actually feeling sorry for some of the Indians who are on PDF 'cause they're having to defend all of this.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## AsifIjaz

IAF needs to show the footage to prove their point... which is nothing but Bullshit.
If they do show the control room footage then it will end with a paf aircraft taking a loop and killing a mki. 8 vs 6 locks don't count with that ending.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AfrazulMandal

crankthatskunk said:


> You have made three startling "disclosures" in your post. I have seen your earlier claim that India lost 11 jets on 27th Feb. Now you are specifically saying that 6 Su 30 shot down by PAF. That's what I think too, it had to be more losses, considering the amount of Aim- 120 and other AAM fired by PAF.
> 
> Also the casualties on the ground had to be massive, considering 11 H4 were dropped by PAF.
> 
> Explosion of the Satellite is the new thing I have heard.
> 
> Your sources please!!


11 aircraft total.
2 on Feb 26
Rest later



usman012 said:


> Yes ,everybody knows your Mig 21 was shot down.


Yeah. And 10 other aircraft

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## crankthatskunk

AfrazulMandal said:


> 11 aircraft total.
> 2 on Feb 26
> Rest later
> Yeah. And 10 other aircraft



Wow, now you have open another Pandora Box, 2 on Feb 26!!
Which ones, Mirage 2000!!


----------



## PurpleButcher

AfrazulMandal said:


> 11 aircraft total.
> 2 on Feb 26
> Rest later
> 
> 
> Yeah. And 10 other aircraft


Though you seem to be a false flagger... but damn your posts do make me happy despite knowing that they ain't true


----------



## NA71

the 2 on 26/2 ...where is the wreckage of both ...if it was in Pak...we would have shown to media.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## drunken-monke

Chowkidar placemat said:


> Why is my post rated negatively.
> I am agreeing F16 was not taken down @Arsalan .... what do I need to do in this forum to e on the right side.


Please check the proofs given by IAF..


----------



## BetterPakistan

And ISPR added a bit more masala to it by showing all missiles of indian mig-21. ISPR also hinted at the 2nd aircraft facts which India is hiding. Its confirm now 2nd aircraft was Su-30


war&peace said:


> Not just middle finger ..the whole arm.. and still RSS bhangi are not satisfied because they used to gang rape.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## atya

AfrazulMandal said:


> 11 aircraft total.
> 2 on Feb 26
> Rest later
> 
> 
> Yeah. And 10 other aircraft


Your source??


----------



## PakShaheen79

*India Never Actually Shot Down Pakistani F-16 in Kashmir Clash, New Report Says*



Pakistani soldiers stand next to what Pakistan says is the wreckage of an Indian fighter jet shot down in Pakistan controled Kashmir at Somani area in Bhimbar district near the Line of Control on February 28, 2019.

STR—AFP/Getty Images
BY IAIN MARLOW / BLOOMBERG 
APRIL 5, 2019
(Bloomberg) — India’s statement that its air force shot down one of Pakistan’s U.S.-built F-16 aircraft during a military flareup in late February appears untrue, according to a report by Washington, D.C.-based Foreign Policy magazine, which cited two U.S. defense officials it didn’t identify.

A U.S. count of Pakistan’s F-16 jets revealed none to be missing, the U.S. officials told Foreign Policy, undercutting India’s position that its air force shot down a Pakistan Air Force jet in a clash that also led to the loss of a Soviet-era Indian Air Force MiG-21 Bison.



YOU MIGHT LIKE

THERESA MAY SAYS BRITAIN WILL SEEK SECOND BREXIT DELAY
HOMOSEXUALITY AND ADULTERY ARE NOW PUNISHABLE WITH DEATH BY STONING IN BRUNEI. HERE'S WHAT TO KNOW
The aerial clash over Kashmir followed an Indian air strike on what New Delhi said was a terrorist training facility inside Pakistani territory.

Islamabad has said consistently that it did not lose an F-16, that it had deployed JF-17 jets jointly built with China against India and that it had destroyed two Indian aircraft, as opposed to the one downed jet India has confirmed. “No Pakistani F16 was hit by Indian airforce,” a statement from Pakistan’s military released Monday reads.

“Truth always prevails,” Pakistan’s army spokesman Asif Ghafoor said in a tweet on Friday. “Time for India to speak truth about false claims and actual losses on their side.”

Indian foreign ministry spokesman Raveesh Kumar did not immediately respond to a phone call and text messages for comment on Friday. In a previous statement in early March, Kumar had said “there are eye-witness accounts and electronic evidence that Pakistan deployed F-16 aircraft and that one F-16 was shot down” by an Indian pilot.

Contact us at editors@time.com.

http://time.com/5564980/india-never-shot-pakistani-plane-kashmir/

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Mangus Ortus Novem

Da Americanz are joinning the Trollfeast.... dropping Truth Bombs!

Surely #DGISPR is behind this... more dangerous than ISI.

#PakSurpriseDay that keeps on giving.... loving it!

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Trailer23

Already covered it last night. Sorry.


Trailer23 said:


> *India Never Actually Shot Down Pakistani F-16 in Kashmir Clash, New Report Says*​
> View attachment 551573
> 
> Pakistani soldiers stand next to what Pakistan says is the wreckage of an Indian fighter jet shot down in Pakistan controled Kashmir at Somani area in Bhimbar district near the Line of Control on February 28, 2019. STR—AFP/Getty Images​
> By  Iain Marlow / Bloomberg 10:49 AM EDT
> (Bloomberg) — India’s statement that its air force shot down one of Pakistan’s U.S.-built F-16 aircraft during a military flareup in late February appears untrue, according to a report by Washington, D.C.-based Foreign Policy magazine, which cited two U.S. defense officials it didn’t identify.
> 
> A U.S. count of Pakistan’s F-16 jets revealed none to be missing, the U.S. officials told Foreign Policy, undercutting India’s position that its air force shot down a Pakistan Air Force jet in a clash that also led to the loss of a Soviet-era Indian Air Force MiG-21 Bison.
> 
> The aerial clash over Kashmir followed an Indian air strike on what New Delhi said was a terrorist training facility inside Pakistani territory.
> 
> Islamabad has said consistently that it did not lose an F-16, that it had deployed JF-17 jets jointly built with China against India and that it had destroyed two Indian aircraft, as opposed to the one downed jet India has confirmed. “No Pakistani F16 was hit by Indian airforce,” a statement from Pakistan’s military released Monday reads.
> 
> “Truth always prevails,” Pakistan’s army spokesman Asif Ghafoor said in a tweet on Friday. “Time for India to speak truth about false claims and actual losses on their side.”
> 
> Indian foreign ministry spokesman Raveesh Kumar did not immediately respond to a phone call and text messages for comment on Friday. In a previous statement in early March, Kumar had said “there are eye-witness accounts and electronic evidence that Pakistan deployed F-16 aircraft and that one F-16 was shot down” by an Indian pilot.
> 
> *Contact us* at editors@time.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zulu

Now indians going to claim ISI secretly owned TIME too along with CNN,BBC,FT,REUTERS and world every top news agencies/publication.Honestly even we Pakistanis did not know that ISI is so rich that they can buy all of them 


Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> Da Americanz are joinning the Trollfeast.... dropping Truth Bombs!
> 
> Surely #DGISPR is behind this... more dangerous than ISI.
> 
> #PakSurpriseDay that keeps on giving.... loving it!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SIPRA

Cookie Monster said:


> They dont have to tell everything...the whole "sensitive information" thing isn't only reserved for Indian armed forces.
> 
> They haven't really walked away from anything...at least Pakistanis are very interested in finding out what happened to other pilots.
> 
> The reason why Indian media and ppl affiliated(or in favor of) with other political parties(non BJP) are tearing into Indian claims is bcuz India was scant on proof to begin with and then one after another, their claims begin to fall apart. First there was a claim of about 300 terrorists being killed(from Indian media I think), which was then walked back. Then independent third party sources started releasing the comparison of pre and post Balakot strike satellite imagery showing no major damage to buildings...thus backing up Pak's claims and pics released of some trees being destroyed. India also denied initially Pak's claim of capturing Indian pilots and downing Indian jets...saying all pilots and planes are accounted for...only to backtrack once wreckage of Mig 21 and video of Abhinandan was released. Then there were claims of Mig 21 wreckage being the wreckage of an F16...also torn to shreds by everyone. The most recent one is this Indian claim of downing an F16 being refuted(pics of Abhinandan's mig21 missiles unfired and US count of F16s).
> 
> Conversely claims made by ISPR were corroborated one by one(though not all claims have yet been verified).
> - Claimed India couldn't hit it's intended targets during its strike in Balakot...independently confirmed by satellite imagery
> - Claimed it will reply in kind...then carried out the strike...confirmed by India itself during the press conference where they showed the AMRAAM.
> - Claimed to shoot down a Mig 21...wreckage shown
> - Claimed to have shot down a second Indian jet...remains a claim for now
> - Claimed to have captured Indian pilots...one was shown(Abhinandan)...one verified the rest remain a claim
> - Claimed none of the PAF's planes were downed...confirmed by US count.
> 
> So in this fog of war as more and more info is emerging...it seems to corroborate more of what Pak is claiming and seems to refute what India is claiming...so naturally its lending more credibility to Pak and eroding away India's credibility. Hence Indian claims are being scrutinized more and more with little attention being paid to Pak's remaining claims(of additional pilots and the second IAF jet destroyed).



Only one correction. ISPR never claimed having 3 pilots. First tweet mentioned: 1 captured, 2 in hiding. In press briefing, only 2 pilots were mentioned. So now the issue is not of "other pilots", but of "other pilot", only.



PurpleButcher said:


> Though you seem to be a false flagger... but damn your posts do make me happy despite knowing that they ain't true



This man appears to be totally out of his mind, but is very consistent; since he is posting these ridiculous figures, on many related threads.



atya said:


> Your source??



Appears to be some extraterrestrial or spiritual source, which common people, like you and me, wouldn't be able to fathom.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## redgriffin

Slides said:


> He's not a former pilot. Don't make stuff up please.


Former army, a friend & mentor I'm damn proud of.


----------



## Meliodas

zulu said:


> Now indians going to claim ISI secretly owned TIME too along with CNN,BBC,FT,REUTERS and world every top news agencies/publication.Honestly even we Pakistanis did not know that ISI is so rich that they can buy all of them


Isi is secretly more wealthy than the rockerfellars lol

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## untitled

Any news from Reader's Digest?

Would love to see Akhbar-e-Jahan do a:
_Teen Jahaz, Teen Kahaneeyan_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## coffee_cup

I dont see many Indians on PDF these days. Can someone please find them and bring back from the shock caused by bitte reality? 

Especially those who were thumping chests till 26th Feb.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## atya

RIWWIR said:


> Only one correction. ISPR never claimed having 3 pilots. First tweet mentioned: 1 captured, 2 in hiding. In press briefing, only 2 pilots were mentioned. So now the issue is not of "other pilots", but of "other pilot", only.
> 
> 
> 
> This man appears to be totally out of his mind, but is very consistent; since he is posting these ridiculous figures, on many related threads.
> 
> 
> 
> Appears to be some extraterrestrial or spiritual source, which common people, like you and me, wouldn't be able to fathom.


 mate you're funny. There's no official news on this and you seem to be the only one who's claiming this.


----------



## SIPRA

atya said:


> mate you're funny. There's no official news on this and you seem to be the only one who's claiming this.



What you are referring to?


----------



## PurpleButcher

drunken-monke said:


> Please check the proofs given by IAF..



Where is the proof... some journalist saying he saw two frames? Is this an evidence? Please let us know what you use to get this high?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CodeforFood

Joe Shearer said:


> He's back in his squadron, and you are probably right, nothing from him until the Model Code of Conduct is over. They've already reprimanded the UP Chief Minister, and that third rate jobless hack who is Vice of the Niti Ayog, and the Governor of Rajasthan is in the queue.
> 
> 
> 
> Had Pakistan won any of the wars it waged against its neighbour, then none of the fanbois would have been in such a poisonous mood.
> 
> We would not have had to face a monstrosity like a two-headed chicken.
> 
> 
> 
> Done.
> 
> Only utter idiots would exult over a skirmish of planes where one is shot down.
> 
> Well I do see a lot of hoopla and coverup so as per your argument there seems to be a lot of 'utter idiots' around. Considering the ratio of population, it seems most of them are on the other side of LOC and border.
> 
> I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.
> 
> My point is that the ISPR, in keeping with a long tradition with the Pakistani military, has been revealing facts in a graduated fashion, and unpleasant facts only under pressure.
> 
> Is your excellent analysis above in any way contradictory of this finding?


----------



## terry5



Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## SIPRA

PurpleButcher said:


> Where is the proof... some journalist saying he saw two frames? Is this an evidence? Please let us know what you use to get this high?



Probably, a combination of marjuana, opium and triple distilled.


----------



## atya

RIWWIR said:


> What you are referring to?


PAF shot down 11 Indian jets. Would love it if its true but you can't claim something without evidence.


----------



## SIPRA

atya said:


> PAF shot down 11 Indian jets. Would love it if its true but you can't claim something without evidence.



You appear to be mistaken. It is not I, who has made this claim. Again see the comments. Probably, you reply is misdirected to me. That is why, I could not gather it.


----------



## CodeforFood

thesolar65 said:


> Congratulation (It's irrelevant whether it is US Govt. or News paper) for counting 80 plus aircraft after 40 days.


And why is that irrelevant?



thesolar65 said:


> To expect US to admit a Soviet era plane brought down an F16, that too one gifted to major non-Nato ally #*Pakistan*, at a time Washington, in collaboration with Rawalpindi, is paving the path for Taliban to takeover #*Afghanistan*, is not naivete but outright foolish. #*RealityCheck*


Yep it is all a big conspiracy right???
In that case you wouldn't mind if I say that Pulwama attack was self inflicted to turn the election results in your favor?? Does... this sound unreasonable???


----------



## sathya

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ht-with-iaf/story-Rw4gSknuuSBnMc2EyYe62H.html

*Not aware’: Pentagon on Pak F-16 count after Feb aerial dogfight with IAF*


----------



## Umar Nazir

Not the first time India boasted. One time their air force claimed sending plane to chase Chinese spy plane away from India. It turned out to be a full moon they were chasing. It gave all the military forum followers a good laugh.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

sathya said:


> https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ht-with-iaf/story-Rw4gSknuuSBnMc2EyYe62H.html
> 
> *Not aware’: Pentagon on Pak F-16 count after Feb aerial dogfight with IAF*







FAKE NEWS: The above source is indian therefore it is null, void and a complete lie.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## sathya

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> FAKE NEWS: The above source is indian therefore it is null, void and a complete lie.




Will follow up for other source or official / further News


----------



## SIPRA

Umar Nazir said:


> Not the first time India boasted. One time their air force claimed sending plane to chase Chinese spy plane away from India. It turned out to be a full moon they were chasing. It gave all the military forum followers a good laugh.



Did the moon run away, not daring to face the might of Supa Pawa?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ali Tariq

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> FAKE NEWS: The above source is indian therefore it is null, void and a complete lie.





sathya said:


> Will follow up for other source or official / further News



https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/desperate-indians-freaking-out-on-fp-report.612236/

Desperate indian media....

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SIPRA

Ali Tariq said:


> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/desperate-indians-freaking-out-on-fp-report.612236/
> 
> Desperate indian media....



Mootar wichon machhian pharhan day shair nay, Indian


----------



## Ali Tariq

RIWWIR said:


> Mootar wichon machhian pharhan day shair nay, Indian


----------



## tkmd

OK since ISPR owns major US media houses can someone please initiate a NAB reference against them for assets beyond means lol.


----------



## Trailer23

*Imran criticises BJP over US magazine's report on F16, says truth prevails *

*Pakistan has denied that one of its planes had been downed by the IAF*
Press Trust of India | Islamabad Last Updated at April 6, 2019 17:50 IST

Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan on Saturday accused the BJP of "whipping up war hysteria", saying its false claim of downing a Pakistani F-16 has "backfired", days after a leading American magazine claimed that none of the US-manufactured fighter jets of the PAF were missing.

Washington-based Foreign Policy magazine reported on Thursday that American personnel recently counted the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) F-16s and found none of the planes missing.

It quoted two senior US defence officials with direct knowledge of the situation.
The Indian Air Force, however, stuck to its stand on Friday, saying that it had conclusive proof of shooting down a PAF F-16 on February 27.

Reacting to the Foreign Policy report, Prime Minister Khan took to Twitter to criticise the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).

The truth always prevails and is always the best policy. BJP's attempt to win elections through whipping up war hysteria and false claims of downing a Pak F 16 has backfired with US Defence officials also confirming that no F16 was missing from Pakistan's fleet.
— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) April 6, 2019





Imran Khan​
The Indian Air Force on February 28 displayed pieces of the AMRAAM missile, fired by a Pakistani F-16, as evidence to "conclusively" prove that Pakistan deployed US-manufactured F-16 fighter jets during an aerial raid targeting Indian military installations in Kashmir.

Pakistan has denied that one of its planes had been downed by the IAF.

According to the magazine, Pakistan invited the US to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized.

"The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile," the report said.

Lara Seligman of the magazine later updated the story, saying "the F-16s Pakistan bought from Jordan have also been included in the count and even third-party transfers of US equipment must go through the US government".
Reacting to the report, the IAF asserted that it had shot down an F-16 aircraft of the PAF on February 27 during aerial combat.

In a statement in New Delhi, the IAF said, "during the aerial engagement, one MiG 21 Bison of the IAF shot down an F-16 in Nowshera sector."

IAF sources also said it has conclusive "circumstantial evidence" including wireless intercepts, signals and graphic captures from airborne warning and control system (AWACS) and electronic signatures to conclude that the F-16 jet was shot down during the aerial combat.

On Friday, the Pakistani military called on India to "speak the truth" about the "actual losses".

Link: https://www.business-standard.com/a...ays-truth-always-prevails-119040600385_1.html


----------



## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

For centuries we knew that the Hindu community are superstitious and naive. The social media revolution has worsened their plight.With the constant bombardment of Fake news an army of brain dead zombies has reached a new level.I will not hesitate to say that political parties around the world have committed the same sin via the social media.No wonder we now see looney tunes like Trump,Modi and others running the affairs of the state .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Sulemanms202

They took JFT to a fight against bloody MKI, says alot abt their confidnece in that bird and ofcourse abt their pilot too!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## siegecrossbow

Umar Nazir said:


> Not the first time India boasted. One time their air force claimed sending plane to chase Chinese spy plane away from India. It turned out to be a full moon they were chasing. It gave all the military forum followers a good laugh.



I heard it was the planet Venus.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## atya

RIWWIR said:


> You appear to be mistaken. It is not I, who has made this claim. Again see the comments. Probably, you reply is misdirected to me. That is why, I could not gather it.


My apologises, maybe I have mistaken you for someone else.


----------



## SABRE

*US officials shoot down Indian claims of F-16 kill*
A report in Foreign Policy confirms Asia Times’ article that there is no proof India shot down a Pakistan F-16 fighter
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/04/article/us-officials-shoot-down-indian-claims-of-f-16-kill/

BySAIKAT DATTA | KUNWAR KHULDUNE SHAHID, NEW DELHI & LAHORE

The US has confirmed that all of the Pakistan Air Force’s F-16s have been accounted for, according to a report in _Foreign Policy_, published on Friday, April 5. *This confirms a March 5 Asia Times article outlining that there was no proof to support Indian claims that an Indian Air Force (IAF) MiG-21 had downed the F-16.*

In the last week of February, Indian fighter jets hit a suspected terror camp in Balakot, Pakistan, leading to a sudden escalation in tensions between the nuclear-armed South Asian neighbors. The air attacks came in the aftermath of a suicide bomb attack on an Indian police convoy in Kashmir that killed 40 troopers. This led to the use of air power by both countries for the first time since the 1971 war.

Pakistan military sources told Asia Times that the F-16 fleet was assembled at the Sargodha air base where the US officials conducted the count. The military sources further confirmed that while the images of the missile heads had been leaked a couple of weeks ago, the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) was waiting for the US officials’ confirmation of the F-16 audit before formally releasing the picture.

*Counter claims*
All four missiles on board the Indian MiG-21 were recovered from the wreckage after it was shot down by Pakistan air defense, inquiries by Asia Times revealed. The pilot, wing commander Abhinandan Varthaman, was captured by Pakistani authorities but released the next day after the US, UAE and Saudi Arabia intervened. The release led to a de-escalation of tensions between India and Pakistan.





Pakistan’s military spokesperson released pictures of the missiles on board the downed Indian MiG-21. Photo: Courtesy Pakistan DGISPR

The image of the four missiles officially released by Pakistan shows debris from two R-77 Adder and two R-73 Archer missiles recovered from the MiG-21. “If all the missiles are accounted for, then how can the Indians claim that one was fired by Wing Commander Abhinandan that took out an F-16,” a senior Pakistani air force official told Asia Times.

The image shows two missiles, one R-73 and one R-77, slightly more damaged than the other two. *Given that both wings of the crashed MiG-21 had a pair of missiles underneath it, aviation experts say that the two missiles that are more damaged are likely to have hit the ground when the MiG-21 crashed*. Each of these missiles has four components – guidance and control section, warhead, fuse and rocket motor.

Pakistani military sources familiar with the matter confirmed that the sections broke into their four segments upon impact with the ground. The rocket motor of two missiles was burnt in the ensuing fire.

*While there were claims that the burnt motors signify that the missiles were fired, experts say that given that the rocket motor’s tube is only broken into pieces – not destroyed – it’s unlikely that the missiles were launched. “If a rocket motor has fired its tube remains intact unless it collides with another plane and explodes – that portion is completely missing in these missiles. That’s because the two lower wing missiles exploded after ground impact after the plane caught fire,” a senior PAF official told Asia Times.*

India has claimed that its MiG-21 destroyed the F-16 before the pilot ejected. They have cited Abhinandan’s last radio transmission saying that he is “locked on” as evidence of their claims. They also briefed a few Indian journalists and apparently showed them radar images after the Foreign Policy report was published, quoting two Pentagon officials who were familiar with the audit of the Pakistani F-16s.

*Ironically, Indian authorities had approached the US pointing out that the use of F-16s by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), was a violation of the end-user agreements. This led the US to carry out the audit of the F-16s that revealed that all the combat jets, including those that were acquired from Jordan, were accounted for. A strict third-party-transfer (TPT) agreement covers the jets sold by Jordan to Pakistan.*

*However, some have questioned the image released by Pakistan stating that only the front portion of the R-73 Archer missile was on display, suggesting it could have been launched and brought down the F-16. However, according to senior IAF pilots, the R-73 missile has a proximity fuse, that detonates the entire missile when it homes in on the target. “…The infrared seeker right in front is completely destroyed when it detonates. No part is left intact,” the senior IAF official told Asia Times.*

*No Black Box*

*Lockheed Martin, the manufacturer of the F-16, said the company had not received any contact from Pakistan over the F-16. “Usually, the original equipment manufacturer is immediately contacted when their aircraft goes down. However, there was no inquiry sent from Pakistan,” a senior official said. “This adds further credence that no F-16 was lost.”*

*Officials pointed out that the MiG-21 had a black box, which is now in Pakistan’s possession. Indian air force officials contend it cannot be deciphered by Pakistan. However, the black box could have been sent to Lockheed Martin to check Indian claims that wing commander Abhinandan had fired a missile. “However, since there is no such discussion, and since no black box was sent to Lockheed Martin by Pakistan, it is safe to assume that no F-16 was shot down,” the official said.*

Others have argued that Lockheed Martin’s bid to sell more combat jets to India could be influenced if Indian claims were proven true. However, officials said that the very fact that India claimed the F-16 kill, would make it difficult for India to explore the purchase of 114 modern combat jets through Lockheed Martin. India had rejected the F-16 more than a decade ago and favored the French Rafale combat jet.

*Pakistani confusion*

In the early hours of February 27, when Indian jets flew into Pakistan chasing the country’s jets, a spokesperson of the Pakistani military stated that “two pilots” had been recovered. This was repeated by Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan. However, it has also been pointed out that there were two Pakistani military units that had seen the aircraft crash and the pilot eject.

*Both the Pakistani military units, the 7th battalion of the Northern Light Infantry and the 658 Mujahid Battalion simultaneously rushed towards the downed Indian pilot. Apparently, both reported capturing the pilot, leading to the confusion in Rawalpindi that they had captured two pilots. However, Asia Times could not independently confirm this version.*

India claims to have intercepted communications between two Pakistani military units speaking about capturing two pilots. India insists that one of the two was the F-16 pilot and the Pakistani troops on the ground had detained him as a case of “mistaken identity.” However, Pakistan officials point out that their troops can easily make out the identity of either pilot from the squadron patches and flags on the G-suit of the fighter pilots. Either way, this confusion has never been fully explained by either side.

-----------------​As I said previously, a third party transaction of US weapons needs US approval. Jordan cannot sell Pakistan its F-16 without prior knowledge and consent of the US. The re-exported weapon is registered to the new recipient country by the US, and once the transaction is complete the weapon system is accounted for in the recipient country's tally.

The last bold and zoomed paragraph highlights why there was a confusion about two pilots being captured.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SIPRA

atya said:


> My apologises, maybe I have mistaken you for someone else.



Thanks.


----------



## ziaulislam

SABRE said:


> *US officials shoot down Indian claims of F-16 kill*
> A report in Foreign Policy confirms Asia Times’ article that there is no proof India shot down a Pakistan F-16 fighter
> https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/04/article/us-officials-shoot-down-indian-claims-of-f-16-kill/
> 
> BySAIKAT DATTA | KUNWAR KHULDUNE SHAHID, NEW DELHI & LAHORE
> 
> The US has confirmed that all of the Pakistan Air Force’s F-16s have been accounted for, according to a report in _Foreign Policy_, published on Friday, April 5. *This confirms a March 5 Asia Times article outlining that there was no proof to support Indian claims that an Indian Air Force (IAF) MiG-21 had downed the F-16.*
> 
> In the last week of February, Indian fighter jets hit a suspected terror camp in Balakot, Pakistan, leading to a sudden escalation in tensions between the nuclear-armed South Asian neighbors. The air attacks came in the aftermath of a suicide bomb attack on an Indian police convoy in Kashmir that killed 40 troopers. This led to the use of air power by both countries for the first time since the 1971 war.
> 
> Pakistan military sources told Asia Times that the F-16 fleet was assembled at the Sargodha air base where the US officials conducted the count. The military sources further confirmed that while the images of the missile heads had been leaked a couple of weeks ago, the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) was waiting for the US officials’ confirmation of the F-16 audit before formally releasing the picture.
> 
> *Counter claims*
> All four missiles on board the Indian MiG-21 were recovered from the wreckage after it was shot down by Pakistan air defense, inquiries by Asia Times revealed. The pilot, wing commander Abhinandan Varthaman, was captured by Pakistani authorities but released the next day after the US, UAE and Saudi Arabia intervened. The release led to a de-escalation of tensions between India and Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan’s military spokesperson released pictures of the missiles on board the downed Indian MiG-21. Photo: Courtesy Pakistan DGISPR
> 
> The image of the four missiles officially released by Pakistan shows debris from two R-77 Adder and two R-73 Archer missiles recovered from the MiG-21. “If all the missiles are accounted for, then how can the Indians claim that one was fired by Wing Commander Abhinandan that took out an F-16,” a senior Pakistani air force official told Asia Times.
> 
> The image shows two missiles, one R-73 and one R-77, slightly more damaged than the other two. *Given that both wings of the crashed MiG-21 had a pair of missiles underneath it, aviation experts say that the two missiles that are more damaged are likely to have hit the ground when the MiG-21 crashed*. Each of these missiles has four components – guidance and control section, warhead, fuse and rocket motor.
> 
> Pakistani military sources familiar with the matter confirmed that the sections broke into their four segments upon impact with the ground. The rocket motor of two missiles was burnt in the ensuing fire.
> 
> *While there were claims that the burnt motors signify that the missiles were fired, experts say that given that the rocket motor’s tube is only broken into pieces – not destroyed – it’s unlikely that the missiles were launched. “If a rocket motor has fired its tube remains intact unless it collides with another plane and explodes – that portion is completely missing in these missiles. That’s because the two lower wing missiles exploded after ground impact after the plane caught fire,” a senior PAF official told Asia Times.*
> 
> India has claimed that its MiG-21 destroyed the F-16 before the pilot ejected. They have cited Abhinandan’s last radio transmission saying that he is “locked on” as evidence of their claims. They also briefed a few Indian journalists and apparently showed them radar images after the Foreign Policy report was published, quoting two Pentagon officials who were familiar with the audit of the Pakistani F-16s.
> 
> *Ironically, Indian authorities had approached the US pointing out that the use of F-16s by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), was a violation of the end-user agreements. This led the US to carry out the audit of the F-16s that revealed that all the combat jets, including those that were acquired from Jordan, were accounted for. A strict third-party-transfer (TPT) agreement covers the jets sold by Jordan to Pakistan.*
> 
> *However, some have questioned the image released by Pakistan stating that only the front portion of the R-73 Archer missile was on display, suggesting it could have been launched and brought down the F-16. However, according to senior IAF pilots, the R-73 missile has a proximity fuse, that detonates the entire missile when it homes in on the target. “…The infrared seeker right in front is completely destroyed when it detonates. No part is left intact,” the senior IAF official told Asia Times.*
> 
> *No Black Box*
> 
> *Lockheed Martin, the manufacturer of the F-16, said the company had not received any contact from Pakistan over the F-16. “Usually, the original equipment manufacturer is immediately contacted when their aircraft goes down. However, there was no inquiry sent from Pakistan,” a senior official said. “This adds further credence that no F-16 was lost.”*
> 
> *Officials pointed out that the MiG-21 had a black box, which is now in Pakistan’s possession. Indian air force officials contend it cannot be deciphered by Pakistan. However, the black box could have been sent to Lockheed Martin to check Indian claims that wing commander Abhinandan had fired a missile. “However, since there is no such discussion, and since no black box was sent to Lockheed Martin by Pakistan, it is safe to assume that no F-16 was shot down,” the official said.*
> 
> Others have argued that Lockheed Martin’s bid to sell more combat jets to India could be influenced if Indian claims were proven true. However, officials said that the very fact that India claimed the F-16 kill, would make it difficult for India to explore the purchase of 114 modern combat jets through Lockheed Martin. India had rejected the F-16 more than a decade ago and favored the French Rafale combat jet.
> 
> *Pakistani confusion*
> 
> In the early hours of February 27, when Indian jets flew into Pakistan chasing the country’s jets, a spokesperson of the Pakistani military stated that “two pilots” had been recovered. This was repeated by Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan. However, it has also been pointed out that there were two Pakistani military units that had seen the aircraft crash and the pilot eject.
> 
> *Both the Pakistani military units, the 7th battalion of the Northern Light Infantry and the 658 Mujahid Battalion simultaneously rushed towards the downed Indian pilot. Apparently, both reported capturing the pilot, leading to the confusion in Rawalpindi that they had captured two pilots. However, Asia Times could not independently confirm this version.*
> 
> India claims to have intercepted communications between two Pakistani military units speaking about capturing two pilots. India insists that one of the two was the F-16 pilot and the Pakistani troops on the ground had detained him as a case of “mistaken identity.” However, Pakistan officials point out that their troops can easily make out the identity of either pilot from the squadron patches and flags on the G-suit of the fighter pilots. Either way, this confusion has never been fully explained by either side.
> 
> -----------------​As I said previously, a third party transaction of US weapons needs US approval. Jordan cannot sell Pakistan its F-16 without prior knowledge and consent of the US. The re-exported weapon is registered to the new recipient country by the US, and once the transaction is complete the weapon system is accounted for in the recipient country's tally.
> 
> The last bold and zoomed paragraph highlights why there was a confusion about two pilots being captured.


Pilot number confusion happens all the time and was corrected very quickly ..it took just hours for ISPR to report everything

This has laid to rest any ambiguity that either f16 or balakot strike ever happened!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Shane

sathya said:


> Will follow up for other source or official / further News



Here is a reliable source for ya dear:


----------



## Areesh

A report in Foreign Policy confirms Asia Times’ article that there is no proof India shot down a Pakistan F-16 fighter

The US has confirmed that all of the Pakistan Air Force’s F-16s have been accounted for, according to a report in Foreign Policy, published on Friday, April 5. This confirms a March 5 Asia Times article outlining that there was no proof to support Indian claims that an Indian Air Force (IAF) MiG-21 had downed the F-16.

In the last week of February, Indian fighter jets hit a suspected terror camp in Balakot, Pakistan, leading to a sudden escalation in tensions between the nuclear-armed South Asian neighbors. The air attacks came in the aftermath of a suicide bomb attack on an Indian police convoy in Kashmir that killed 40 troopers. This led to the use of air power by both countries for the first time since the 1971 war.

*Pakistan military sources told Asia Times that the F-16 fleet was assembled at the Sargodha air base where the US officials conducted the count. The military sources further confirmed that while the images of the missile heads had been leaked a couple of weeks ago, the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) was waiting for the US officials’ confirmation of the F-16 audit before formally releasing the picture.

Counter claims
*
All four missiles on board the Indian MiG-21 were recovered from the wreckage after it was shot down by Pakistan air defense, inquiries by Asia Times revealed. The pilot, wing commander Abhinandan Varthaman, was captured by Pakistani authorities but released the next day after the US, UAE and Saudi Arabia intervened. The release led to a de-escalation of tensions between India and Pakistan.


Pakistan’s military spokesperson released pictures of the missiles on board the downed Indian MiG-21. Photo: Courtesy Pakistan DGISPR
The image of the four missiles officially released by Pakistan shows debris from two R-77 Adder and two R-73 Archer missiles recovered from the MiG-21. “If all the missiles are accounted for, then how can the Indians claim that one was fired by Wing Commander Abhinandan that took out an F-16,” a senior Pakistani air force official told Asia Times.

The image shows two missiles, one R-73 and one R-77, slightly more damaged than the other two. *Given that both wings of the crashed MiG-21 had a pair of missiles underneath it, aviation experts say that the two missiles that are more damaged are likely to have hit the ground when the MiG-21 crashed*. Each of these missiles has four components – guidance and control section, warhead, fuse and rocket motor.

Pakistani military sources familiar with the matter confirmed that the sections broke into their four segments upon impact with the ground. The rocket motor of two missiles was burnt in the ensuing fire.

*While there were claims that the burnt motors signify that the missiles were fired, experts say that given that the rocket motor’s tube is only broken into pieces – not destroyed – it’s unlikely that the missiles were launched.* “If a rocket motor has fired its tube remains intact unless it collides with another plane and explodes – that portion is completely missing in these missiles. That’s because the two lower wing missiles exploded after ground impact after the plane caught fire,” a senior PAF official told Asia Times.

India has claimed that its MiG-21 destroyed the F-16 before the pilot ejected. They have cited Abhinandan’s last radio transmission saying that he is “locked on” as evidence of their claims. They also briefed a few Indian journalists and apparently showed them radar images after the Foreign Policy report was published, quoting two Pentagon officials who were familiar with the audit of the Pakistani F-16s.

Ironically, Indian authorities had approached the US pointing out that the use of F-16s by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), was a violation of the end-user agreements. *This led the US to carry out the audit of the F-16s that revealed that all the combat jets, including those that were acquired from Jordan, were accounted for. A strict third-party-transfer (TPT) agreement covers the jets sold by Jordan to Pakistan.
*
However, some have questioned the image released by Pakistan stating that only the front portion of the R-73 Archer missile was on display, suggesting it could have been launched and brought down the F-16. *However, according to senior IAF pilots, the R-73 missile has a proximity fuse, that detonates the entire missile when it homes in on the target. “…The infrared seeker right in front is completely destroyed when it detonates. No part is left intact,” the senior IAF official told Asia Times.

No Black Box*

Lockheed Martin, the manufacturer of the F-16, said the company had not received any contact from Pakistan over the F-16. “Usually, the original equipment manufacturer is immediately contacted when their aircraft goes down. However, there was no inquiry sent from Pakistan,” a senior official said. “*This adds further credence that no F-16 was lost.*”

Officials pointed out that the MiG-21 had a black box, which is now in Pakistan’s possession. Indian air force officials contend it cannot be deciphered by Pakistan. *However, the black box could have been sent to Lockheed Martin to check Indian claims that wing commander Abhinandan had fired a missile. “However, since there is no such discussion, and since no black box was sent to Lockheed Martin by Pakistan, it is safe to assume that no F-16 was shot down,” *the official said.

Others have argued that Lockheed Martin’s bid to sell more combat jets to India could be influenced if Indian claims were proven true. However, officials said that the very fact that India claimed the F-16 kill, would make it difficult for India to explore the purchase of 114 modern combat jets through Lockheed Martin. India had rejected the F-16 more than a decade ago and favored the French Rafale combat jet.

*Pakistani confusion*

In the early hours of February 27, when Indian jets flew into Pakistan chasing the country’s jets, a spokesperson of the Pakistani military stated that “two pilots” had been recovered. This was repeated by Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan. However, it has also been pointed out that there were two Pakistani military units that had seen the aircraft crash and the pilot eject.

Both the Pakistani military units, the 7th battalion of the Northern Light Infantry and the 658 Mujahid Battalion simultaneously rushed towards the downed Indian pilot. *Apparently, both reported capturing the pilot, leading to the confusion in Rawalpindi that they had captured two pilots*. However, Asia Times could not independently confirm this version.

India claims to have intercepted communications between two Pakistani military units speaking about capturing two pilots. India insists that one of the two was the F-16 pilot and the Pakistani troops on the ground had detained him as a case of “mistaken identity.” *However, Pakistan officials point out that their troops can easily make out the identity of either pilot from the squadron patches and flags on the G-suit of the fighter pilots.* Either way, this confusion has never been fully explained by either side.

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/04/article/us-officials-shoot-down-indian-claims-of-f-16-kill/

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
13


----------



## coffee_cup

Yaar yay besharam log haiN.

Do you think that would make a small dent on their thought process? Indian public's delusions are so deep that they would even start believing that they are living on Mars if their media tells them so.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Stealth

Arguing with PatWari and Indian be like “mainay eek bewakoof se behas lagaye aur may haar gaya”

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Azadkashmir

coffee_cup said:


> Yaar yay besharam log haiN.
> 
> Do you think that would make a small dent on their thought process? Indian public's delusions are so deep that they would even start believing that they are living on Mars if their media tells them so.



mars covered in tatty caramel.


----------



## denel

Guys.
Let us finish this off please. we are going around and around like stupid monkeys on this topic.
Mods... enough. let us move on.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## SIPRA

Stealth said:


> Arguing with PatWari and Indian be like “mainay eek bewakoof se behas lagaye aur may haar gaya”



Perhaps, that is the reason, that Patwaries and India were buddies and very close.
"Kabootar ba kabootar, baaz ba baaz"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Whirling_dervesh

Bhangees need some closure


----------



## ShaikhKamal

Let the Indians believe that their circa 1950s Mig-21 shot down a F-16. Let the Indians have false sense of security with their antique fighters. Why argue with the Indians they think they are superpower let them live in their imaginary world.


----------



## SIPRA

denel said:


> Guys.
> Let us finish this off please. we are going around and around like stupid monkeys on this topic.
> Mods... enough. let us move on.


 
Sir, how can we close it, unless and until a more exciting topic doesn't crops up:
"Aik hangaamay pay mauqoof hae ghar ki raunaq"


----------



## coffee_cup

denel said:


> Guys.
> Let us finish this off please. we are going around and around like stupid monkeys on this topic.
> Mods... enough. let us move on.



Why?

We told Indians that after this fiasco which was created by them, we'll troll them for the next 10 years.

Abhi to party shroo hoi hay,

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SIPRA

ShaikhKamal said:


> Let the Indians believe that their circa 1950s Mig-21 shot down a F-16. Let the Indians have false sense of security with their antique fighters. Why argue with the Indians they think they are superpower let them live in their imaginary world.



Tau hum kiya phir bhaeth ker bhang ghotain


----------



## denel

coffee_cup said:


> Why?
> 
> We told Indians that after this fiasco which was created by them, we'll troll them for the next 10 years.
> 
> Abhi to party shroo hoi hay,


If you want to behave like indian monkeys ... then go ahead.


----------



## SIPRA

coffee_cup said:


> Why?
> 
> We told Indians that after this fiasco which was created by them, we'll troll them for the next 10 years.
> 
> Abhi to party shroo hoi hay,



No need for 10 years. Something, equally or more exciting would crop up, far before that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## denel

RIWWIR said:


> Sir, how can we close it, unless and until a more exciting topic doesn't crops up:
> "Aik hangaamay pay mauqoof hae ghar ki raunaq"


There is no end to stupidity is there?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## coffee_cup

denel said:


> If you want to behave like indian monkeys ... then go ahead.



Since you have taken the role of advising others, here is one for you:

Just ignore such threads and move on. Let others have fun.

This is very easy.


----------



## denel

coffee_cup said:


> Since you have taken the role of advising others, here is one for you:
> 
> Just ignore such threads and move on. Let others have fun.
> 
> This is very easy.


cheers.


----------



## ShaikhKamal

RIWWIR said:


> Tau hum kiya phir bhaeth ker bhang ghotain



Remind me of the Urdu Ghazal which talks about just smiling and keeping quiet.

Kal chaudhvi ki raat thi
Shab bhar raha charcha tera
Kuchh ne kaha ye chand hai
Kuchh ne kaha chehra tera
Hum bhi waha maujud the
Hum ne bhi sab dekha kiye
Hum chup rahe kuchh na kaha
Manzur tha parda tera


----------



## Microsoft

The questions now should be *only* about SU-30. Indian buffoonery about F-16 has been laid to rest many times over.


----------



## SIPRA

ShaikhKamal said:


> Remind me of the Urdu Ghazal which talks about just smiling and keeping quiet.
> 
> Kal chaudhvi ki raat thi
> Shab bhar raha charcha tera
> Kuchh ne kaha ye chand hai
> Kuchh ne kaha chehra tera
> Hum bhi waha maujud the
> Hum ne bhi sab dekha kiye
> Hum chup rahe kuchh na kaha
> Manzur tha parda tera


 
A very good ghazal of Ibn e Insha



denel said:


> There is no end to stupidity is there?



None, whatsoever. Albert Einstein said some thing to this effect, that Space and Stubidity are said to be limitless, but he has a doubt about the former.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fledgingwings

Bas kar do yar.Rulao ge inko kya???????


----------



## Trailer23

*I couldn't resist...*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hex0maniac




----------



## Death Professor

Joe Shearer said:


> The *ISPR has very successfully walked away* from the question of what happened to the other pilots, and *converted it to one about whether or not an F-16* was shot down. That gives them the upper hand, and Indian analysts have completely forgotten about the core issue.



Yeah, it was ISPR who brought F16's into the conversation. /s

It doesn't have anything to do with ISPR. Questions started arising when India bombed the trees. India had to provide proof to what they claimed and Pakistan proved within an hour of strike through ISPR. 

Then the next day happens, Pakistan claims to down 2 aircrafts, captures Abhinandan, shows the proof of one downed aircraft. First claimed to capture 1 pilot with 2 still missing, then claiming of capturing 2 pilots while one being in critical condition in a hospital, then finalizing with only one indian captured pilot with the tea sipping video. 

Now you could have asked about the 2nd pilot but your media didn't. At first they didn't even believe a mig21 to be downed, they claimed it was an F-16 with the GE engine(ISPR wasn't the one who diverted the question about pilots, they corrected themselves about the pilot). Now when the dust settled, AARAM missile fragment was shown by India, and suggested that an F-16 was downed by them. So the final question was about F-16, so that had to be answered.

Now I didn't wanted to reply, especially to you since I know about your BP and senility. But you are just being ridiculous here about how ISPR is the only one shaping the narrative. The burden of proof was always on India, you claimed high and you presented nothing. Pakistan had nothing to gain from proving more, what they proved was enough. Now what do you think we are supposed to believe after this, If you can't prove then why claim?

*The camera and radar images, which prove that the F-16 was shot down, have been lost with the Mig-21 Bison aircraft — piloted by Wing Commander Abhinandan — which crashed on the Pak side of the LoC, officials said.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## maximuswarrior

The humiliation is complete and verified.

This humiliation deserves a certificate.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hex0maniac



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sathya

Shane said:


> Here is a reliable source for ya dear:
> 
> 
> View attachment 551701



This article is quoting foreign policy magazine which itself based on unnamed sources of DoD.

All same ..


----------



## Path-Finder




----------



## Path-Finder



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

sathya said:


> This article is quoting foreign policy magazine which itself based on unnamed sources of DoD.
> 
> All same ..


this unnamed official is a pentagon corespondent, her twitter link is already posted on previous pages of this thread @sathya

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## sathya

pakistanipower said:


> this unnamed official is a pentagon corespondent, her twitter link is already posted on previous pages of this thread @sathya



She is a named reporter, her sources are unnamed on DoD.
We are expecting official / named pentagon press release .
Will wait for it.


----------



## Ultima Thule

sathya said:


> She is a named reporter, her sources are unnamed on DoD.
> We are expecting official / named pentagon press release .
> Will wait for it.


get some shame pentagon spoke person telling the fact not LM or ordinary military men tells that, you're humiliated @sathya

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Vortex

Bhaio Bzurgho dosto,

What @denel said is valid. But I agree with you all that having fun about indians is.... funny ! What else? .

But why Denel and me came here and read your post, it’s because we have interest in what our friends, brothers and sisters have to say. Nothing more nothing less. 

I hope you can understand that fun is good, but like drugs, after having used too much it doesn’t make same effect. And talking again again about same things, make us like indians on their TV channels.

(For your information I never took any drugs in my life. The example was based on what I learnt on Tv programs, articles etc).

What we need now is a stronger one like confirmation of SU30 kill 


By the way, discussing again and again on this board won’t make any difference. We should spread those news on social media like tweeter etc and other foreigners forums.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bratva

sathya said:


> She is a named reporter, her sources are unnamed on DoD.
> We are expecting official / named pentagon press release .
> Will wait for it.



The entire indian drama of Balakot and post balakot was run based on the unnamed sources leaking news. So Why those sources are taken as a fact and this source being termed as phony ?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## TheDarkKnight

Bratva said:


> The entire indian drama of Balakot and post balakot was run based on the unnamed sources leaking news. So Why those sources are taken as a fact and this source being termed as phony ?


Simple: Its not Indian and it doesnt support their narrative! 
Here we are talking about a neutral source - actually biased in their favor these days - if US and intl sources are supportive of a Pakistani narrative then the Pakistani stance is for sure closer to truth.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## sathya

pakistanipower said:


> get some shame pentagon spoke person telling the fact not LM or ordinary military men tells that, you're humiliated @sathya



Lol Read previous page..
Hindustan Times was not agreed as a standard source , hence the discussion.


----------



## Ultima Thule

sathya said:


> Lol Read previous page..
> Hindustan Times was not agreed as a standard source , hence the discussion.


Hindustan times is not Pentagon you stupid @sathya


----------



## Vortex

pakistanipower said:


> Hindustan times is not Pentagon you stupid @sathya



Yes it’s not Pentagone but Abhinodone.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trailer23

sathya said:


> Lol Read previous page..
> Hindustan Times was not agreed as a standard source , hence the discussion.


https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ht-with-iaf/story-Rw4gSknuuSBnMc2EyYe62H.html

This article...(by) Hindustan Times. I've read it. Quite compelling. Very well written.

I do have a question, though.

*Q. Who exactly is your named 'Official' from the Pentagon?*

I mean, that has been the basis of your and the rest of India's argument, right? A well reputed journal states that NO Pakistan F-16 is missing from its inventory. Names are not provided (initially). So you call foul play. Lies. 

The story is picked by all the leading World Media (TIME, Reuters etc.) within hours.

Now, your side has come out in the HINDUstan Times. Great. But its been a whole day. And no one outside of India has covered your narrative or at the very least...sided with you. Not even a two-bit whore like _Christine Fair_ bothered herself & she hates Pakistan, probably more than Indians.

So, again - who exactly is the named_ 'Official'_ you guys quoted who has NO knowledge of the Inventory Check of the Pakistan Air Force's General Dynamic/Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon/Viper which shot down your _Abhinandan 'Hero' Varthaman_ flying the 1950's MiG-21 (Bison) with a Raytheon AMRAAM Aim-120 ?

I rest my case...

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## ziaulislam

denel said:


> Guys.
> Let us finish this off please. we are going around and around like stupid monkeys on this topic.
> Mods... enough. let us move on.


check this thread..https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hot-...jet-inventory-is-intact.612370/#post-11349874

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mshan44

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/04/article/us-officials-shoot-down-indian-claims-of-f-16-kill/

*Lockheed Martin, the manufacturer of the F-16, said the company had not received any contact from Pakistan over the F-16. “Usually, the original equipment manufacturer is immediately contacted when their aircraft goes down. However, there was no inquiry sent from Pakistan,” a senior official said. “This adds further credence that no F-16 was lost.”*

Officials pointed out that the MiG-21 had a black box, which is now in Pakistan’s possession. Indian air force officials contend it cannot be deciphered by Pakistan. However, the black box could have been sent to Lockheed Martin to check Indian claims that wing commander Abhinandan had fired a missile. “However, since there is no such discussion, and since no black box was sent to Lockheed Martin by Pakistan, it is safe to assume that no F-16 was shot down,” the official said.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Joe Shearer

Death Professor said:


> Yeah, it was ISPR who brought F16's into the conversation. /s
> 
> It doesn't have anything to do with ISPR. Questions started arising when India bombed the trees. India had to provide proof to what they claimed and Pakistan proved within an hour of strike through ISPR.
> 
> Then the next day happens, Pakistan claims to down 2 aircrafts, captures Abhinandan, shows the proof of one downed aircraft. First claimed to capture 1 pilot with 2 still missing, then claiming of capturing 2 pilots while one being in critical condition in a hospital, then finalizing with only one indian captured pilot with the tea sipping video.
> 
> Now you could have asked about the 2nd pilot but your media didn't. At first they didn't even believe a mig21 to be downed, they claimed it was an F-16 with the GE engine(ISPR wasn't the one who diverted the question about pilots, they corrected themselves about the pilot). Now when the dust settled, AARAM missile fragment was shown by India, and suggested that an F-16 was downed by them. So the final question was about F-16, so that had to be answered.
> 
> Now I didn't wanted to reply, especially to you since I know about your BP and senility. But you are just being ridiculous here about how ISPR is the only one shaping the narrative. The burden of proof was always on India, you claimed high and you presented nothing. Pakistan had nothing to gain from proving more, what they proved was enough. Now what do you think we are supposed to believe after this, If you can't prove then why claim?
> 
> *The camera and radar images, which prove that the F-16 was shot down, have been lost with the Mig-21 Bison aircraft — piloted by Wing Commander Abhinandan — which crashed on the Pak side of the LoC, officials said.*



LOL.

The day you can write a comment without personal abuse you might get an answer.


----------



## mshan44




----------



## Death Professor

Joe Shearer said:


> LOL.
> 
> The day you can write a comment without personal abuse you *might get an answer*.



yeah, LOL. 

Dude, the thing is if you want to reply then just reply, there is no 'if you do this I do that'. You don't need to tell others what to write or not-to write, if you find something offensive just use the report button. And it's not like my day won't go by if I don't get your answer. 

Just leave your narcissism and superiority complex behind whenever you log in to PDF, then we can have a discussion. Btw, you can always choose not to reply or use ignore button, it's not like I force you to reply.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GriffinsRule

Death Professor said:


> yeah, LOL.
> 
> Dude, the thing is if you want to reply then just reply, there is no 'if you do this I do that'. You don't need to tell others what to write or not-to write, if you find something offensive just use the report button. And it's not like my day won't go by if I don't get your answer.
> 
> Just leave your narcissism and superiority complex behind whenever you log in to PDF, then we can have a discussion. Btw, you can always choose not to reply or use ignore button, it's not like I force you to reply.



Just a slight correction ... Indians have an inferiority complex

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## metalfalcon

pakistanipower said:


> get some shame pentagon spoke person telling the fact not LM or ordinary military men tells that, you're humiliated @sathya



Still there is more room for some "MORE HUMILIATION" I am waiting when Pentagon and Lockheed Martin will say the same thing that no F-16 was shot down only then the HUMILIATION will be complete

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Ultima Thule

metalfalcon said:


> Still there is more room for some "MORE HUMILIATION" I am waiting when Pentagon and Lockheed Martin will say the same thing that no F-16 was shot down only then the HUMILIATION will be complete


pentagon already clarify that our F-16 didn't shot down and that's enough for us @metalfalcon

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## metalfalcon

pakistanipower said:


> pentagon already clarify that our F-16 didn't shot down and that's enough for us @metalfalcon



I knew on the first day 27th Feb 2019 that Indians Claims are JUST FARCE but let them continue on the path of denial and they will face more HUMILIATION

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## crankthatskunk

sathya said:


> She is a named reporter, her sources are unnamed on DoD.
> We are expecting official / named pentagon press release .
> Will wait for it.



Why wait!! Sue that girl who wrote the column, she has slur the reputation of the mighty Indians around the world. Bring you shame and disgrace world over by publishing an article without disclosing her sources. Which Pentagon officials were her sources!! 
She had to be made an example. How dare she!! 

Go on do it. We Pakistanis want more humiliations for the Indians. 
Are you that daft that she would publish such news without backups!! 
Deluded Indians.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Shane

sathya said:


> This article is quoting foreign policy magazine which itself based on unnamed sources of DoD.
> 
> All same ..



Not that bright, are you? I'm sure you are but the circumstances are such that you all find yourself forced to adapt iodine deficiency syndrome just like the other old idiot.

L.e.t m.e e.x.p.l.a.i.n i.t t.o y.o.u s.l.o.w.l.y
S.o. t.h.a.t y.o.u.r.s.e.l.f a.n.d t.h.e r.e.s.i.d.e.n.t. I.n.d.i.a.n I.d.i.o.t o.l.d m.a.n g.e.t.s. i.t

(The resident old Indian idiot is not the distinguished, scholarly badmouth @Joe Shearer here people, although I admit that I've seen him challenge, get owned and scoot at the hands of @coffee_cup . Anyway, don't get the wrong idea @Path-Finder @PakSword , lol.)

So here is the simple point; Hindustan times is just another Indian media outlet. Where as Foreign Policy and Time Magazines are international publications of well known standing and repute.

The above and more has been amicable explained by @Trailer23 here . I am only here to remind an old friend that he once challenged me and then scooted half way into his reply, literally, lol...

So I guess it is only civil to console the continuous spanking and ever deeper reddening of an old man's "Bahaind", ouch!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## PakSword

Shane said:


> (The resident old Indian idiot is not the distinguished, scholarly badmouth @Joe Shearer here people, although I admit that I've seen him challenge, get owned and scoot at the hands of @coffee_cup . Anyway, don't get the wrong idea @Path-Finder @PakSword , lol.)


Who is the buddhha here you are talking about? I know two buddhhay khhoosats here... One you have named, other one gets hyper easily when he is taken to cleaners...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Shane

PakSword said:


> Who is the buddhha here you are talking about? I know two buddhhay khhoosats here... One you have named, other one gets hyper easily when he is taken to cleaners...


The other is always lurking around like the sheared one, lol. He gets it. 

Some realize that it's futile to argue without facts and opt out of it while others like the sheared one, are so shameless that when they run out of their usual lame excuses, they start taking off their clothes and throw at us with the obvious hideous eventuality, lol...when nothing else is left, they try to torcher our senses, lol.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PakSword

Shane said:


> The other is always lurking around like the sheared one, lol. He gets it.
> 
> Some realize that it's futile to argue without facts and opt out of it while others like the sheared one, are so shameless that when they run out of their usual lame excuses, they start taking off their clothes and throw at us with the obvious hideous eventuality, lol...when nothing else is left, they try to torcher our senses, lol.


Doosray walay ki tou main ne aik din aisi chhitrol ki thi.. bilkul faisalabadi aur Karachi style mix main... Uss din ke baad mere aas pass nahi phatakta... Mods ko mere comments delete karnay paray...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dubious

denel said:


> cheers.


everytime we close a thread, a new indian minister/ officer gets the mic to embarrass india....

Well, this is a defence forum and our neighbours are providing us with entertainment...and of course some comments to wrap around our mind....

In my opinion it is annoying but it gives us an out of the box thinking ...I mean finding used missile means a plane was downed...Now just look at the level of creativity put into such a thought 

O btw, I learnt something new...Why ISPR reported 2 pilots at first:



Areesh said:


> Both the Pakistani military units, the 7th battalion of the Northern Light Infantry and the 658 Mujahid Battalion simultaneously rushed towards the downed Indian pilot. *Apparently, both reported capturing the pilot, leading to the confusion in Rawalpindi that they had captured two pilots*. However, Asia Times could not independently confirm this version.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Shane

Dubious said:


> O btw, I learnt something new...Why ISPR reported 2 pilots at first:


Then both took him to the hospital and reported that separately too, Lol, you guys are so full of it, lol, no wonder the Indians here are dizzy, being spun around in circles, lol.


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Joe Shearer said:


> Why is it that in discussing warfare, or external relations, or legislation, or dam-building, or shoes, some people think of rape and condoms? Stuck in a time-warp?
> 
> The fired AIM120s were proof that the PAF had used F16s in combat, something vehemently denied at first, that is slowly creeping into the narrative as the days pass. Progress can be measured by comparing your ISPR statements and releases; nothing further is needed.



Pardon me, but the mention of rape, since you as a nation is very familiar with its modalities, was used to hammer home some brutal realities of 27th Feb.

There is no contradiction in ISPR statement. The strike package which conducted the surgical strikes around Indian military targets, only comprised of Jf17s and Mirages. NO F16 WAS USED. Simply because the stand off weapon systems used are made in Pakistan and can only be carried by JF17s and Mirages, we do not have sourced code for F16 to mate these weapons with it. F16 cannot take part simply because of these technical reasons. Now if F16s were CAPing the area, and dealt with IAF jets which breached Pakistani airspace, proven with wreckage of Mig21 falling within Pakistani territory with pilot captured, then it's a completely different issue.

Bottom line is, F16s were not part of strike package which hit targets in India.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Dubious

Shane said:


> Then both took him to the hospital and reported that separately too, Lol, you guys are so full of it, lol, no wonder the Indians here are dizzy, being spun around in circles, lol.


They reported it when they set off to pick him up...And that is when ISPR reported....ISPR said 1 pilot in his 2nd speech...So, kindly know your facts

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Shane

Dubious said:


> They reported it when they set off to pick him up...And that is when ISPR reported....ISPR said 1 pilot in his 2nd speech...So, kindly know your facts


Touché, keep up the good work.


----------



## Shane

@Dubious you can read my two cents about it here and here. We are on the same page but I didn't go into the exact nitty-gritty as it doesn't matter but for Indians themselves to keep guessing.


----------



## Trailer23

*Farooq Abdulla getting in on the action:*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Joe Shearer

Taimoor Khan said:


> Pardon me, but the mention of rape, since you as a nation is very familiar with its modalities, was used to hammer home some brutal realities of 27th Feb.
> 
> There is no contradiction in ISPR statement. The strike package which conducted the surgical strikes around Indian military targets, only comprised of Jf17s and Mirages. NO F16 WAS USED. Simply because the stand off weapon systems used are made in Pakistan and can only be carried by JF17s and Mirages, we do not have sourced code for F16 to mate these weapons with it. F16 cannot take part simply because of these technical reasons. Now if F16s were CAPing the area, and dealt with IAF jets which breached Pakistani airspace, proven with wreckage of Mig21 falling within Pakistani territory with pilot captured, then it's a completely different issue.
> 
> Bottom line is, F16s were not part of strike package which hit targets in India.



You must be congratulated for the discovery that a nation is familiar with the modalities of rape; it is quite a change for a Bengali to hear this from a Pakistani. 

As for the ISPR statement, the point was not about a contradiction. It was about the gradual and furtive introduction of the theme into the successive messages put out by ISPR. Try and think this through before wading through the technical detail that you so kindly and so unnecessarily provided.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ziaulislam

Joe Shearer said:


> You must be congratulated for the discovery that a nation is familiar with the modalities of rape; it is quite a change for a Bengali to hear this from a Pakistani.
> 
> As for the ISPR statement, the point was not about a contradiction. It was about the gradual and furtive introduction of the theme into the successive messages put out by ISPR. Try and think this through before wading through the technical detail that you so kindly and so unnecessarily provided.


Better than what kashmiris have been facing ..

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Path-Finder

Shane said:


> Not that bright, are you? I'm sure you are but the circumstances are such that you all find yourself forced to adapt iodine deficiency syndrome just like the other old idiot.
> 
> L.e.t m.e e.x.p.l.a.i.n i.t t.o y.o.u s.l.o.w.l.y
> S.o. t.h.a.t y.o.u.r.s.e.l.f a.n.d t.h.e r.e.s.i.d.e.n.t. I.n.d.i.a.n I.d.i.o.t o.l.d m.a.n g.e.t.s. i.t
> 
> (The resident old Indian idiot is not the distinguished, scholarly badmouth @Joe Shearer here people, although I admit that I've seen him challenge, get owned and scoot at the hands of @coffee_cup . Anyway, don't get the wrong idea @Path-Finder @PakSword , lol.)
> 
> So here is the simple point; Hindustan times is just another Indian media outlet. Where as Foreign Policy and Time Magazines are international publications of well known standing and repute.
> 
> The above and more has been amicable explained by @Trailer23 here . I am only here to remind an old friend that he once challenged me and then scooted half way into his reply, literally, lol...
> 
> So I guess it is only civil to console the continuous spanking and ever deeper reddening of an old man's "Bahaind", ouch!


what is going on?


----------



## Shane

Path-Finder said:


> what is going on?


Just tagged you too because you were engaged in a discussion back in the thread with the same lost cause of an ignoramus old Indian idiot that myself and @PakSword have spanked in the past. Have fun.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Irfan Baloch

PDFChamp said:


> Source
> 
> It would be nice if this US report puts an end to Indian nonsense claims. One more arrow in Modi's behind.
> 
> *Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.*
> *New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.*
> By  Lara Seligman | April 4, 2019, 7:50 PM
> 
> Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi waves at the public rally in Kolkata, India, on April 3. (Atul Loke/Getty Images)
> 
> View attachment 551385
> 
> 
> India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told _Foreign Policy_ that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.
> 
> *The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.*
> 
> It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.
> 
> The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.
> 
> Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.
> 
> “As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”
> 
> The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.
> 
> He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.
> 
> One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.
> 
> Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.
> 
> *But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.*


good luck convincing a nation that accepts F-16 Naswar as proof

no amount of American or Ugandan clarification will be satisfactory

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Path-Finder

Shane said:


> Just tagged you too because you were engaged in a discussion back in the thread with the same lost cause of an ignoramus old Indian idiot that myself and @PakSword have spanked in the past. Have fun.



The way i see it Joseph Goebbels DNA exists in india too when the aryans came possibly the branch that gave us Joseph Goebbels has its tentacles in india too! The excessive lies and keep fabricating more.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## NA71

another Indian story emerges 
https://www.businesstoday.in/opinio...esperate-fake-f-16-dogfight/story/334901.html

they are on full pace spreading disinformation ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanasifm

Good move All focus on pak f-16 and not actual su-30 and mi-17 debacle

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Joe Shearer said:


> You must be congratulated for the discovery that a nation is familiar with the modalities of rape; it is quite a change for a Bengali to hear this from a Pakistani.
> 
> As for the ISPR statement, the point was not about a contradiction. It was about the gradual and furtive introduction of the theme into the successive messages put out by ISPR. Try and think this through before wading through the technical detail that you so kindly and so unnecessarily provided.



What's there to discover? You lot are rape capital of world. Rape and India are synonymous.

Contradictions, inconsistencies, there are none in ISPR statements. Technicalities are important for those who are losing their marbles in India after the surgical strikes of 27th. We can only try to make sense. I am struggling to understand why India is completely silence about the ground strikes, the targets hit , the ground impacts of PAF bombs? IAF jets getting shotdown can be classed as collateral damage, the real deal was the ground strikes. 

Anyway, when are you letting Russian experts count your su30 inventory? ISPR is also asking questions to India to come clean about the second IAF jet shotdown.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## AsianLion

Signalian said:


> Has India produced downed F-16 wreckage after 40 days ?



Sorry but now Indians as everyone for fact knows are basically chutiyeys....the more you bang them the more they feeling nothing cuz they live to lie, they propagate lies.....so keep banging them left and right with full fun and they get used to bullying, losses and defeats.

Indian Lt Gen H S Panag in its long twitter messages replies under the below twitter has concluded IAF senior officers, Media and Indian government 'lied' outrightly to everyone.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114334939036770304

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## PDFChamp

Joe Shearer said:


> Without wreckage on the ground, nobody can prove anything for sure.



Thank you for trying. You decided to not address my question about who called who's bluff. India did not follow through despite two decades of noise about CSD.

India didn't call Pakistan's bluff, unless one expected a nuclear response over a crow. Pakistan kept its promise to retaliate at the time and place of its own choosing and followed through. Winning was great but in large scheme of things was secondary. Following through is the difference: India called the escalation an act of war, but did not follow through. How do you deny, on factual grounds, that it was Pakistan who called India's bluff? (Please don't respond. Just a rhetorical question.)


Article below might help clear up any misconception of Pakistan not prepared to retaliated in case of future adventures.

*Feb stand-off exposed India’s conventional bluff*
*Looming threat of another aggression again gives a wake-up call to international community to exercise its influence for solution of outstanding issues India making new deployments on its western border*

 




 
* Sohail Nasir *
April 08, 2019

Islamabad - The failed Indian attack near Balakot and next day early morning retaliation by the PAF and subsequent events not only exposed conventional bluff of India but also stabilised the nuclear threshold by bestowing upon Pakistan the confidence that it could effectively take on arch rival in the realm of conventional warfare.

Pakistan, without going to war, smartly established its superiority by outclassing India in air, land, sea, diplomacy, intelligence and information combat. Stunning performance by PAF and vulnerabilities of IAF really surprised the military circles all along the world. ISPR, led by Major General Asif Ghafoor, without applying any propaganda tool, took lead over India by providing true and real time information of land and air skirmishes.

Despite these setbacks, India’s instinctual appetite for escalation and sheer madness to avenge the recent humiliation is once again putting the region in danger. Reportedly India is making new deployments of armoured, infantry and air defence contingents on its western border with Pakistan. On LOC, it has increased ceasefire violations many-fold. Prime Minister Imran Khan has explicitly made it clear that threat is not over yet and Pakistan will have to remain vigilant until the end of upcoming election process in India. Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, during his Sunday press conference in Multan, even gave the timeline of India’s likely aggression by saying that there was danger of another misadventure by India between 16th to 20th April. It seems that another Pulwama is in making. It would be worth mentioning that Indian general elections are scheduled to be held in seven phases from 11 April to 19 May to constitute the 17th Lok Sabha. The looming threat of another round of aggression and February standoff between two nuclear weapon states again gives a wake-up call to international community to exercise its influence for solution of outstanding issues. Pakistan-India military conflict would have devastating effects on region and beyond as the war between two countries could spiral out of control.

With return of Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, , so far Pakistan has taken a number of steps for de-escalation and also re-initiated dialogue process on Kartarpur corridor. Instead of showing reciprocity, India consistently making hostile manoeuvres, giving impression that any peace move with Pakistan will be electorally damaging for BJP but this is mere deception. According to assessment of security quarters in Pakistan, Jingoistic design of India are based on a three dimensional strategy. Firstly, malign and try to subdue Pakistan by using sheer kinetic force for electoral and political gains. Secondly, to impede CPEC through military tension and thirdly to put Kashmir issue on back burner.

Since ever, India has hysterically been trying to militarily cope with Pakistan once for all but so far it has been unsuccessful to figure out that how to do it. 2001 military standoff with Pakistan provided Indian political and military leadership with an opening to bring about doctrinal changes in its operational strategy to fulfil the dream of trampling Pakistan. Pursuing this agenda, India evolved so called cold start doctrine which simply means to attack Pakistan with amazing swiftness, using unimaginable massive, integrated land and air force, capturing sizeable area and leave Pakistan with no option but to crumble. Be it BJP or Congress, the idea presented by India generals always fascinated top ranks of both parties.

Bringing about doctrinal changes in military strategy is by all means a gigantic task and there are very rare examples of its success. *A military fantasy like cold start doctrine can be a successful story in an Indian film but on the ground there are very serious obstacles in way of strategy formulation and its execution. After consistent efforts of 18 years, the culmination of cold start doctrine was formation of integrated battle groups in limited numbers .IBGs and IAF, two month ago, carried out two separate exercises near Pakistan border to assess its abilities in battleground environment. Ironically, through pulwama episode, India created an opportunity to test the CSD but Pakistan nipped the evil in bud by pre-empting India designs. *

What India needs to know is that during 18 years of development of CSD, Pakistan has successfully plugged gaps by construction of superstructure of roads, bunkers, canals and subsidiaries on eastern flank. This enabled Pakistan, for real time military buildup, ensure safety of troops and civilian population and disable Indian advance into Pakistani territory. On the top of that battlefield range ballistic missile NASR, short range ballistic missile Ghazanvi and small nuclear arms fully neutralised CSD. NASR tipped with small nuclear arms is sufficient to wipe out any Indian military formation advancing on Pakistani soil.

Aerial bout on LOC also exposed the myth of Israeli technology where Indian Mirage jets had to drop their payload of SPICE 2000.Much propagated SPICE bomb kit of Israel’s Rafael Advanced Defence Systems consists of a sophisticated guidance system, inertial navigation, satellite guidance and electro-optical sensors for pinpoint accuracy, and control fins to a conventional unguided bomb. Claims made in Israeli media it turns the bomb into sophisticated long-range munitions. With this state of art and lethal weaponry, Indian planes could only create several large craters, flipped over some trees and killed one black crow. Failed Indian attack near Balakot must have negatively impacted the marketing of Russian jets and Israeli munitions.

In February India attacked Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, which is main land Pakistan but International community kept silent on blatant Indian aggression. At the same time, powerful countries cannot always scramble to defuse India –Pakistan tension.

Economic stability, political harmony and internationalization of Indian threat to CPEC are the factors that can halt India. CPEC is part of Belt and Road project which intends to link more than 66 countries from different continents. Any attempt by India to hamper CEPEC would tantamount to damage the interest of all member countries of B&R project.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

Taimoor Khan said:


> What's there to discover? You lot are rape capital of world. Rape and India are synonymous.
> 
> Contradictions, inconsistencies, there are none in ISPR statements. Technicalities are important for those who are losing their marbles in India after the surgical strikes of 27th. We can only try to make sense. I am struggling to understand why India is completely silence about the ground strikes, the targets hit , the ground impacts of PAF bombs? IAF jets getting shotdown can be classed as collateral damage, the real deal was the ground strikes.
> 
> Anyway, when are you letting Russian experts count your su30 inventory? ISPR is also asking questions to India to come clean about the second IAF jet shotdown.


I believe things r heading towards second jet shot down that day Indian claim of F16 is debunked by Americans now only thing left is Su30 imagine how embarrassing would be for Bakhts when they will be called clowns again by rest of the world.i Beleive Indian mistake was claiming F16 down but they did to prove AMRAAM they found exploded on theior side.



Shane said:


> Then both took him to the hospital and reported that separately too, Lol, you guys are so full of it, lol, no wonder the Indians here are dizzy, being spun around in circles, lol.


Two pilots he said was due to two separate units went for pilots and they found same guy Abhinandan they took him to CMH he later calrify that only one pilot is in custody.



PDFChamp said:


> Thank you for trying. You decided to not address my question about who called who's bluff. India did not follow through despite two decades of noise about CSD.
> 
> India didn't call Pakistan's bluff, unless one expected a nuclear response over a crow. Pakistan kept its promise to retaliate at the time and place of its own choosing and followed through. Winning was great but in large scheme of things was secondary. Following through is the difference: India called the escalation an act of war, but did not follow through. How do you deny, on factual grounds, that it was Pakistan who called India's bluff? (Please don't respond. Just a rhetorical question.)
> 
> 
> Article below might help clear up any misconception of Pakistan not prepared to retaliated in case of future adventures.
> 
> *Feb stand-off exposed India’s conventional bluff*
> *Looming threat of another aggression again gives a wake-up call to international community to exercise its influence for solution of outstanding issues India making new deployments on its western border*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Sohail Nasir *
> April 08, 2019
> 
> Islamabad - The failed Indian attack near Balakot and next day early morning retaliation by the PAF and subsequent events not only exposed conventional bluff of India but also stabilised the nuclear threshold by bestowing upon Pakistan the confidence that it could effectively take on arch rival in the realm of conventional warfare.
> 
> Pakistan, without going to war, smartly established its superiority by outclassing India in air, land, sea, diplomacy, intelligence and information combat. Stunning performance by PAF and vulnerabilities of IAF really surprised the military circles all along the world. ISPR, led by Major General Asif Ghafoor, without applying any propaganda tool, took lead over India by providing true and real time information of land and air skirmishes.
> 
> Despite these setbacks, India’s instinctual appetite for escalation and sheer madness to avenge the recent humiliation is once again putting the region in danger. Reportedly India is making new deployments of armoured, infantry and air defence contingents on its western border with Pakistan. On LOC, it has increased ceasefire violations many-fold. Prime Minister Imran Khan has explicitly made it clear that threat is not over yet and Pakistan will have to remain vigilant until the end of upcoming election process in India. Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, during his Sunday press conference in Multan, even gave the timeline of India’s likely aggression by saying that there was danger of another misadventure by India between 16th to 20th April. It seems that another Pulwama is in making. It would be worth mentioning that Indian general elections are scheduled to be held in seven phases from 11 April to 19 May to constitute the 17th Lok Sabha. The looming threat of another round of aggression and February standoff between two nuclear weapon states again gives a wake-up call to international community to exercise its influence for solution of outstanding issues. Pakistan-India military conflict would have devastating effects on region and beyond as the war between two countries could spiral out of control.
> 
> With return of Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, , so far Pakistan has taken a number of steps for de-escalation and also re-initiated dialogue process on Kartarpur corridor. Instead of showing reciprocity, India consistently making hostile manoeuvres, giving impression that any peace move with Pakistan will be electorally damaging for BJP but this is mere deception. According to assessment of security quarters in Pakistan, Jingoistic design of India are based on a three dimensional strategy. Firstly, malign and try to subdue Pakistan by using sheer kinetic force for electoral and political gains. Secondly, to impede CPEC through military tension and thirdly to put Kashmir issue on back burner.
> 
> Since ever, India has hysterically been trying to militarily cope with Pakistan once for all but so far it has been unsuccessful to figure out that how to do it. 2001 military standoff with Pakistan provided Indian political and military leadership with an opening to bring about doctrinal changes in its operational strategy to fulfil the dream of trampling Pakistan. Pursuing this agenda, India evolved so called cold start doctrine which simply means to attack Pakistan with amazing swiftness, using unimaginable massive, integrated land and air force, capturing sizeable area and leave Pakistan with no option but to crumble. Be it BJP or Congress, the idea presented by India generals always fascinated top ranks of both parties.
> 
> Bringing about doctrinal changes in military strategy is by all means a gigantic task and there are very rare examples of its success. *A military fantasy like cold start doctrine can be a successful story in an Indian film but on the ground there are very serious obstacles in way of strategy formulation and its execution. After consistent efforts of 18 years, the culmination of cold start doctrine was formation of integrated battle groups in limited numbers .IBGs and IAF, two month ago, carried out two separate exercises near Pakistan border to assess its abilities in battleground environment. Ironically, through pulwama episode, India created an opportunity to test the CSD but Pakistan nipped the evil in bud by pre-empting India designs. *
> 
> What India needs to know is that during 18 years of development of CSD, Pakistan has successfully plugged gaps by construction of superstructure of roads, bunkers, canals and subsidiaries on eastern flank. This enabled Pakistan, for real time military buildup, ensure safety of troops and civilian population and disable Indian advance into Pakistani territory. On the top of that battlefield range ballistic missile NASR, short range ballistic missile Ghazanvi and small nuclear arms fully neutralised CSD. NASR tipped with small nuclear arms is sufficient to wipe out any Indian military formation advancing on Pakistani soil.
> 
> Aerial bout on LOC also exposed the myth of Israeli technology where Indian Mirage jets had to drop their payload of SPICE 2000.Much propagated SPICE bomb kit of Israel’s Rafael Advanced Defence Systems consists of a sophisticated guidance system, inertial navigation, satellite guidance and electro-optical sensors for pinpoint accuracy, and control fins to a conventional unguided bomb. Claims made in Israeli media it turns the bomb into sophisticated long-range munitions. With this state of art and lethal weaponry, Indian planes could only create several large craters, flipped over some trees and killed one black crow. Failed Indian attack near Balakot must have negatively impacted the marketing of Russian jets and Israeli munitions.
> 
> In February India attacked Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, which is main land Pakistan but International community kept silent on blatant Indian aggression. At the same time, powerful countries cannot always scramble to defuse India –Pakistan tension.
> 
> Economic stability, political harmony and internationalization of Indian threat to CPEC are the factors that can halt India. CPEC is part of Belt and Road project which intends to link more than 66 countries from different continents. Any attempt by India to hamper CEPEC would tantamount to damage the interest of all member countries of B&R project.


That is big victory for Pak that they shattered Indian conventional Bluff now balance is changed.



khanasifm said:


> Good move All focus on pak f-16 and not actual su-30 and mi-17 debacle


It won't get long when Pak put more on table.Dhonna should be fire from his job he deserves to be i believe he is feeding all these fake stories to save his skin.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Slides

Agree about BS Dhonna. He seems half asleep whenever he talks to media. Probably hungover from the night before.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

Slides said:


> Agree about BS Dhonna. He seems half asleep whenever he talks to media. Probably hungover from the night before.


This all bull we seeing in media is fed by IAF Dhonna and Co they saving theior skin nothing more but for how long?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Taimoor Khan said:


> Pardon me, but the mention of rape, since you as a nation is very familiar with its modalities, was used to hammer home some brutal realities of 27th Feb.
> 
> There is no contradiction in ISPR statement. The strike package which conducted the surgical strikes around Indian military targets, only comprised of Jf17s and Mirages. NO F16 WAS USED. Simply because the stand off weapon systems used are made in Pakistan and can only be carried by JF17s and Mirages, we do not have sourced code for F16 to mate these weapons with it. F16 cannot take part simply because of these technical reasons. Now if F16s were CAPing the area, and dealt with IAF jets which breached Pakistani airspace, proven with wreckage of Mig21 falling within Pakistani territory with pilot captured, then it's a completely different issue.
> 
> Bottom line is, F16s were not part of strike package which hit targets in India.


F 16s were there for escort


----------



## Shane

mingle said:


> Two pilots he said was due to two separate units went for pilots and they found same guy Abhinandan they took him to CMH he later calrify that only one pilot is in custody.



Kindly go through the links in following message too. There was no need to explain anything dear:


Shane said:


> You can read my two cents about it here and here. We are on the same page but I didn't go into the exact nitty-gritty as it doesn't matter but for Indians themselves to keep guessing.


----------



## Blueskiez 2001

Joe Shearer said:


> You must be congratulated for the discovery that a nation is familiar with the modalities of rape; it is quite a change for a Bengali to hear this from a Pakistani.
> 
> ...



There where NO systematic rape done by pakistani forces in Bangladesh. Get your facts right. Its all propaganda.


----------



## mastaan

Blueskiez 2001 said:


> There where NO systematic rape done by pakistani forces in Bangladesh. Get your facts right. Its all propaganda.


Yeah, sure and unicorns are a reality! Bangladeshis were mad to hate pakistani army and it was all evil indian propaganda that led to split of pakistan into two.


----------



## Blueskiez 2001

mastaan said:


> Yeah, sure and unicorns are a reality! Bangladeshis were mad to hate pakistani army and it was all evil indian propaganda that led to split of pakistan into two.



It is very important for me to know facts in every part of my life. I do not comment on things that i don´t have knowledge of. 

One thing is a fact: Pakistan army is professional. One part of being professional is to be human, civilized and have codex of high moral values. And the Pakistan army has always been that, is at this very moment and will also be (inshallah) in the future. If they stray away from this professionalism they will cease to exist! 
Raping is not part of being professional soldier and will never be. Soldiers indulging are not professional soldiers but mercenaries.

If you want to get knowledge about what happened during 1971 then read "The 1971 indo-pak war -a soldiers narrative". 

I do not have a wish to educate you. You can believe in what ever you want. 

End of discussion.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AsianLion

LoL even our great ever active PM IK never leaves a chance to scold India about lying to the world

*PM Khan chides/Scolds India over false claim of F-16 downing*







ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Imran Khan on Saturday rebuked Indian leadership over its false claim of shooting down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in a dogfight amid growing tension between the two countries in February.

“The truth always prevails and is always the best policy,” the prime minister tweeted. “BJP’s attempt to win the elections through whipping up war hysteria and false claim of downing a Pak F-16 has backfired with US defence officials also confirming that no F-16 was missing from Pakistan’s fleet.”

“India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong,” reads a report recently posted on the website of US-based _Foreign Policy_ magazine.

The report cites two senior US defence officials with direct knowledge of the situation revealing that US personnel had recently counted Pakistan’s F-16s and found none missing.

Says it was BJP’s attempt to win elections by whipping up war hysteria

The finding directly contradicts the account of Indian Air Force officials who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman had managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.

“It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by US authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day,” the _Foreign Policy_ report says.

The report comes just days before the beginning of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office.

In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after more than 40 Indian security officials were killed in an attack in India-held Kashmir on Feb 14. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.

Although the report is not likely to sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events had unfolded might affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.

“As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Mr Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”

The dogfight between fighter jets of the two countries occurred on Feb 27 when, according to India, a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since the 1971 war a day earlier. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman’s jet took a missile hit but he ejected safely into Pakistani territory. He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to deescalate the crisis.

According to the report, one of the senior US defence officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan had invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalised.

“Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow US officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected. Some of Pakistan’s F-16s were acquired from Jordan through a third party transfer, but even these are subject to the end-user agreement,” Richard Aboulafia, an analyst with the Teal Group, an aerospace and defence firm, was quoted as saying.

“If you are a user of American defence products … you need to go through a very clear process to send those weapons to a third party,” explained Mr Aboulafia, noting that the US had a rigid process in place to try to ensure its equipment did not fall into the hands of “hostile actors”.

_Published in Dawn, April 7th, 2019_

_https://www.dawn.com/news/1474437/pm-chides-india-over-false-claim-of-f-16-downing_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## 1Paki$tani

Apparently they (IAF) are about to hold press conference about f-16. Lets hope they don't dangle another piece of condom oh i mean AMRAAM as proof.

ISPR should prepare to release details of second pilot and jet that was downed.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115188532006522880

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Salza

metalfalcon said:


> Still there is more room for some "MORE HUMILIATION" I am waiting when Pentagon and Lockheed Martin will say the same thing that no F-16 was shot down only then the HUMILIATION will be complete



Why the hell pentagon will say anything directly related to some one else airforce you idiot. They would had only released the statement if the F16 in question belongs to US airforce. Get it ?

For some one else airforce, news are released through other prominent sources directly linked to media. Foreign Policy is one such source and this is precisely why, international media is buying her report and have totally ridiculed Indian narrative now.


----------



## mingle

Shane said:


> Kindly go through the links in following message too. There was no need to explain anything dear:


Thses pilots could be Indians too? Did U ask ur airforce? Go ask them they hiding kill made by Pak. u guys lied so much that even u don't know what u said yesterday this whole F16 campaign has only one reason things will move towards Su30 if India kept quite.shame is a little word for india debunked again and again and again and again by whole world.


----------



## Shane

mingle said:


> Thses pilots could be Indians too? Did U ask ur airforce? Go ask them they hiding kill made by Pak. u guys lied so much that even u don't know what u said yesterday this whole F16 campaign has only one reason things will move towards Su30 if India kept quite.shame is a little word for india debunked again and again and again and again by whole world.


Kindly get your head around my earlier posts first before blindly wasting more bandwidth dear. Click > here< lol.



1Paki$tani said:


> Apparently they (IAF) are about to hold press conference about f-16. Lets hope they don't dangle another piece of condom oh i mean AMRAAM as proof.
> 
> ISPR should prepare to release details of second pilot and jet that was downed.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115188532006522880


Let me preempt the to be staged drama as per earlier reports in Indian media.

All they have are two radar charts actually showing how F16 baited Abhi into trap (and then disappearing from radar using EW POD.) While Abbi ended up victim of our trap seconds later.

The other so called evidence is Radio intercepts of PAF fighters and allegedly one going silente, lol (he disappeared from their radar and they expect to still hear him after EW, lol) and ground units reporting they saw multiple parachutes, lol.

That's the total evidence they have to keep fooling Modi lover junta.


----------



## AsianLion

Just one question which I already tweeted about yesterday that howcome if IAF can determine electronic signatures of PAF jets within Pakistani territory failed to recognize own MI-17 helicopter inside own territory ?



1Paki$tani said:


> Apparently they (IAF) are about to hold press conference about f-16. Lets hope they don't dangle another piece of condom oh i mean AMRAAM as proof.
> 
> ISPR should prepare to release details of second pilot and jet that was downed.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115188532006522880



Indian release AWACS radar images lol:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115232859231543297

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 1Paki$tani

AsianUnion said:


> Just one question which I already tweeted about yesterday that howcome if IAF can determine electronic signatures of PAF jets within Pakistani territory failed to recognize own MI-17 helicopter inside own territory ?
> 
> 
> 
> Indian release AWACS radar images lol:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115232859231543297



Lol... they PAF screwed up their systems with EW and they were seeing ghosts.

This explains it how it was done and PAF set up a trap with EW whereby they had Ghost F-16 appearing on their radars but there were none at that location. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115233907887230976

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Shane

AsianUnion said:


> Just one question which I already tweeted about yesterday that howcome if IAF can determine electronic signatures of PAF jets within Pakistani territory failed to recognize own MI-17 helicopter inside own territory ?
> 
> 
> 
> Indian release AWACS radar images lol:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115232859231543297


Lol, as expected, what a bunch of sore losers. Their evidence is exactly like i posted earlier:


Shane said:


> Let me preempt the to be staged drama as per earlier reports in Indian media.
> 
> All they have are two radar charts actually showing how F16 baited Abhi into trap (and then disappearing from radar using EW POD.) While Abbi ended up victim of our trap seconds later.
> 
> The other so called evidence is Radio intercepts of PAF fighters and allegedly one going silente, lol (he disappeared from their radar and they expect to still hear him after EW, lol) and ground units reporting they saw multiple parachutes, lol.
> 
> That's the total evidence they have to keep fooling Modi lover junta.



Kudos to DG ISPR. Indians disclose top secret information, lol.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mastaan

Blueskiez 2001 said:


> It is very important for me to know facts in every part of my life. I do not comment on things that i don´t have knowledge of.
> 
> One thing is a fact: Pakistan army is professional. One part of being professional is to be human, civilized and have codex of high moral values. And the Pakistan army has always been that, is at this very moment and will also be (inshallah) in the future. If they stray away from this professionalism they will cease to exist!
> Raping is not part of being professional soldier and will never be. Soldiers indulging are not professional soldiers but mercenaries.
> 
> If you want to get knowledge about what happened during 1971 then read "The 1971 indo-pak war -a soldiers narrative".
> 
> I do not have a wish to educate you. You can believe in what ever you want.
> 
> End of discussion.


you pick a book and ignore vast swathes of proof that is irrefutable and still believe you know facts. whatever flies your kite man. all the best to you.

Don't need to belong to your school of thought anyways.. so, missing nothing.

Just saw this on TOI and sharing
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...istani-f-16-says-iaf/articleshow/68780475.cms

And Shiv says, not enough, except circumstantial evidence.. However, where is the CMH pilot remains the biggest point

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115236262070321152


----------



## Shane

HRK said:


> can you plz post the link of that chart ...


As posted above, IAF released those radar charts today.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Secret Service

Shane said:


> As posted above, IAF released those radar charts today.


I want DG ISPR to arrange a press conference with some PAF guy and kill this issue.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mhacsan

Shane said:


> As posted above, IAF released those radar charts today.


If this the case, then the Indians must have the location of the downed F 16 as per the "engagement area" if not exact but approximate. for that it would have been very easy for them to locate and take pictures through satellite. This could have debunked once for all. 
This is understandable that plane went off the radar if it has taken the hit, but it is not comprehendible how did it vanish off the ground?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ahassan

in the heat of the debate .... IAF is really playing smart and cunning .... they are able to point fingers on PAF .... and no one is asking about counting those .... Su30s in fleet .... the pic shown by them have some serious flaws in it (i might be wrong) ... might be the same mig 27 that crashed (Since lot of air exercise has been seen near rajasthan border .... they can very well play with aircraft signatures ...


----------



## mingle

Ahassan said:


> in the heat of the debate .... IAF is really playing smart and cunning .... they are able to point fingers on PAF .... and no one is asking about counting those .... Su30s in fleet .... the pic shown by them have some serious flaws in it (i might be wrong) ... might be the same mig 27 that crashed (Since lot of air exercise has been seen near rajasthan border .... they can very well play with aircraft signatures ...


In this age u can't hide these things. IAF fooling it's own ppl in the rest of world nobody buy theior argument when count of F16 is done by US that's end the debate but for india second question is then Su30 this whole push is to cover up that thing but u can't do it for long

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ahassan

mingle said:


> In this age u can't hide these things. IAF fooling it's own ppl in the rest of world nobody buy theior argument when count of F16 is done by US that's end the debate but for india second question is then Su30 this whole push is to cover up that thing but u can't do it for long




The best way for DGISPR would be to release data from mig21 flight recorder ....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ziaulislam

Irfan Baloch said:


> good luck convincing a nation that accepts F-16 Naswar as proof
> 
> no amount of American or Ugandan clarification will be satisfactory
> View attachment 551858


I laughed so much on our beloved naswar of kpk in indian tv that i almost had a heart attack

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Han Patriot

Ahassan said:


> in the heat of the debate .... IAF is really playing smart and cunning .... they are able to point fingers on PAF .... and no one is asking about counting those .... Su30s in fleet .... the pic shown by them have some serious flaws in it (i might be wrong) ... might be the same mig 27 that crashed (Since lot of air exercise has been seen near rajasthan border .... they can very well play with aircraft signatures ...


Can some wake those Indians in BR. They are still thinking Pakistan is winning the propaganda war only. Now we have US publications openly telling the truth. Quite neutral to me. 

My bet is they are hiding the SU30 crash ....elections are near bhai

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Shane

Secret Service said:


> I want DG ISPR to arrange a press conference with some PAF guy and kill this issue.


DG ISPR is far ahead in the game and must be laughing his head off at the panic stricken IAF leadership.

He will only if it is in his plans, unlike Indians, who are acting like an unpaid W#ore and exposing themselves as some kind of an evidence, lol.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

Ahassan said:


> The best way for DGISPR would be to release data from mig21 flight recorder ....


This whole campaign is to hide loss of second jet they think india is whole world


----------



## Shane

mhacsan said:


> This is understandable that plane went off the radar if it has taken the hit, but it is not comprehendible how did it vanish off the ground?


F16 vanished due to EW capabilities of PAF as they trapped the Mig21 and Su30.

As far as the location is concerned, You have raised an interesting point but Indians are just ("Baghlain Jhakna") giving lame excuses as an after thought, and find themselves exposing even more...the chinks in their armor.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## nomi007

Where are Mirages of PAF

Are they stealth 
why Phalcon didn't detect them

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Stealth

Evidence

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Keysersoze

nomi007 said:


> Where are Mirages of PAF
> 
> Are they stealth
> why Phalcon didn't detect them


Take a look at this video. See how low a mirage can go when it needs to....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ali_Baba

India has SOOOO many spy satellites, why can't they simply show the crash sites of the F16s? We have seen the satellite views of the crash sites of both the Mig21 and Mi17 already. 
How hard can this be... 

unless of course, if it is a lie.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## metalfalcon

Salza said:


> Why the hell pentagon will say anything directly related to some one else airforce you idiot. They would had only released the statement if the F16 in question belongs to US airforce. Get it ?
> 
> For some one else airforce, news are released through other prominent sources directly linked to media. Foreign Policy is one such source and this is precisely why, international media is buying her report and have totally ridiculed Indian narrative now.



Mind your Language be careful when you use words like idiot, this shows the caliber of your mental level. Remember we are on same side.


----------



## Trailer23

Salza said:


> Why the hell pentagon will say anything directly related to some one else airforce you idiot. They would had only released the statement if the F16 in question belongs to US airforce. Get it ?


Actually, that is incorrect.
*a.* If a nation loses a F-16, they have to report it to Lockheed Martin.
Why? Because an investigation will take place that the jet had (actually) crashed. They don't want their things to go to another nation for Reverse Engineering.

*b.* As far as Pentagon is concerned..., they themselves got involved when the '_End-User Agreement_' was brought up. Lets not forget the US High Commission in Islamabad started investigating. So now that their investigation is well over, they outta mention it in one of their Press Briefings. I'm not suggesting that it is a matter of great importance to them and that a Press Briefing would be required just for a PAF F-16.

Finally, the article came out on the 5th. Which means the investigation was well over a day prior (at the very least).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Salza

Trailer23 said:


> Actually, that is incorrect.
> *a.* If a nation loses a F-16, they have to report it to Lockheed Martin.
> Why? Because an investigation will take place that the jet had (actually) crashed. They don't want their things to go to another nation for Reverse Engineering.
> 
> *b.* As far as Pentagon is concerned..., they themselves got involved when the '_End-User Agreement_' was brought up. Lets not forget the US High Commission in Islamabad started investigating. So now that their investigation is well over, they outta mention it in one of their Press Briefings. I'm not suggesting that it is a matter of great importance to them and that a Press Briefing would be required just for a PAF F-16.
> 
> Finally, the article came out on the 5th. Which means the investigation was well over a day prior (at the very least).



Read my post again. For all this, information is shared but Pentagon don't do an exclusive press release for an issue relevant to some one else air force. Information is than given out thru credible media sources but not directly from Pentagon.


----------



## Trailer23

Salza said:


> Read my post again. For all this, information is shared but Pentagon don't do an exclusive press release for an issue relevant to some one else air force. Information is than given out thru credible media sources but not directly from Pentagon.


Fine, than it should have been covered by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Mike Pompeo loves to stand pedestal and give his views.


----------



## untitled

Trailer23 said:


> US High Commission in .....


Her Majesty will be pleased


----------



## BRAVO_

Ahassan said:


> in the heat of the debate .... IAF is really playing smart and cunning .... they are able to point fingers on PAF .... and no one is asking about counting those .... Su30s in fleet .... the pic shown by them have some serious flaws in it (i might be wrong) ... might be the same mig 27 that crashed (Since lot of air exercise has been seen near rajasthan border .... they can very well play with aircraft signatures ...


don't worry my friend, more they will lie ... more they would be expose. they are playing stupidly, fighting for a lost cause of F-16 and getting humiliation everyday internationally and the most important thing they are badly demoralizing indian armed forces coz such type of lies could be sold to illiterate idian public but cannot to officers and this is first time in indian history when military has been dragged in to domestic politics brutally.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trailer23

This is his Press Briefing from yesterday... Personally, I think they're avoiding the Topic themselves. They don't want to upset India too much...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## AsianLion

Trailer23 said:


> This is his Press Briefing from yesterday... Personally, I think they're avoiding the Topic themselves. They don't want to upset India too much...




True, after an official FP, mouthpiece of SD and Pentagon correspondent confirmed and banged Indians....it will be too much for the Indians to digest, as they are all in hiding after the confirmation of no shot down. We for sure know all our F16s are safe and accounted for which was not just confirmed by PAF, ISPR and now an external source US.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Falcon26

Trailer23 said:


> This is his Press Briefing from yesterday... Personally, I think they're avoiding the Topic themselves. They don't want to upset India too much...



When you post these videos please include the video mark where the relevant comments are made. It’s 11 minutes long video.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Trailer23

There aren't any. All he did was talk about Iran.


Falcon26 said:


> When you post these videos please include the video mark where the relevant comments are made. It’s 11 minutes long video.


----------



## mzain

why this thread is stiky ?


----------



## AsianLion

Answer the liars India once and for all : Release Mig 21 Abhinandan shot down black box flight data, and shut the Indians for good.

And then request India for Su-30 Mki count down and six targets that were surgically hit inside India? Once India does count Su-30Mki, show the video footage of second Su-30 Mki lost after consulting Russian friends!!

Answer the liars India once and for all : Release Mig 21 Abhinandan shot down black box flight data, and shut the Indians for good.

And then request India for Su-30 Mki count down and six targets that were surgically hit inside India? Once India does count Su-30Mki, show the video footage of second Su-30 Mki lost after consulting Russian friends!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trailer23

AsianUnion said:


> Release Mig 21 Abhinandan shot down black box flight data, and shut the Indians for good.


Have you ever seen the Flight Recorder of a MiG-21? That is some serious RadioShack Dinosaur Age equipment. Its not near the same of a Commercial Airliner where they have Two (Flight Data Recorder & Cockpit Voice Recorder).

I tried watching the video (below)...and at times understanding what the hell the guy was talking about, but gave up after 3mins.

I'm not sure what kind of Photographic Film is used, probably Kodak .

But seriously, had the IAF of had the wreckage of Abhi-Nando's MiG-21, they would have presented evidence in HD.








mzain said:


> why this thread is stiky ?


Because the Bosses make that decision.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trailer23

An entire day (10th of April) has passed by...

...and not a peep out of the Bharatis' with their "We shot down a *PAF-16*! - Here is the proof" rhetoric.

This isn't the type of _nasal_ that'll go away that easily.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kamranmunawar

FP publish the story about F16 count and then BBC, Reuter, New York Time and many others endorse the story by publishing it too. Now it does not matter what the Indian public think. The whole world accepted that IAF and Indian Government lie about F16 loss. That is the real loss for India not just a few planes or pilots but credibility. Everything India said about Balakot bombing, Pulwama attack and loss of only one M21 is doubtful now. In future anything, they will say, the world ask for proof.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## PradoTLC

Indians need to stop.... 

they havent convinced their friends in the west they shot a F-16 down...

but they come here thinking we might believe it

height of delusion

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zoe Ali

what about the guy who claims to have shot it? Mr Abhinandan; he is nowhere to be seen. There is an interesting article by an expert on this https://strafasia.com/pakistans-f-16s-are-all-accounted-for-confirms-the-u-s/


----------



## Avicenna

Zoe Ali said:


> what about the guy who claims to have shot it? Mr Abhinandan; he is nowhere to be seen. There is an interesting article by an expert on this https://strafasia.com/pakistans-f-16s-are-all-accounted-for-confirms-the-u-s/



He is working on his line of Pakistani inspired tea products.

Soon to be on Amazon.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Arsalan

Dazzler said:


> Seriously? Still spreading shit? No shame left?


Its year *2029*!!

You are still here, asking this same question! .

Take that 



Asfandyar Bhittani said:


> We live in a post truth world mate. The truth doesn't matter to these people. They know deep inside PAF humiliated them & their entire narrative is bs, but none of them, including the congress's secularists will question the IAF for blatantly lying for Modi's election campaign.


It was more political than military influenced. However now after a few months gone, at least the military leadership have realized they cannot lie through their teeth in today's world. Since they still cannot speak up the truth (without risking lynching) they have mostly chosen to stay silent. See how Bippin Rawat is out of the picture these days.


----------



## BL33D

*This was posted just to point out that US count of F-16 cant be trusted as they would try to cover it up and a neutral party can only verify Indian Claims. Just that. Please dont start bashing me.*
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/0...Pakistani-F-16-US-in-a-coverup/8251553579200/

WASHINGTON -- A Pakistan Air Force F-16 accidentally shot down a companion F-16 previously reported to have been hit by a Soviet-made missile last May during combat over Afghanistan -- and U.S. officials assisted in the coverup, administration officials said Saturday.

'It was pilot error,' a U.S. intelligence source said of the jet fighter's loss.



Pakistan's attempt to cover up the accident was assisted by some Pentagon and State Department officials who felt the false report of a Soviet 'kill' might help promote Pakistan's bid to acquire sophisticated U.S.-made AWACS radar airplanes, administration sources told United Press International.

However, Pakistan first concocted the story primarily to 'save face' and prevent any embarrassment of its Air Force, which has created an F-16 craze among the Pakistani people, they said.

Asked about the disclosure that the plane was downed by friendly fire, a defense official at Pakistan's Washington embassy said, 'This we do not know because we have no links with our Air Force Department.' He declined further comment.

Ken Dirken, a State Department spokesman, denied any department involvement in a coverup of the accident, arguing that the United States lacked 'independent means of confirmation.' A Pentagon official, who stuck to the original contention that the Soviets downed the plane, acknowledged receiving reports of the accident but said they were regarded as 'less credible' than Pakistan's official version.

Following the incident, administration officials quoted Pakistani counterparts as announcing that six Soviet-made Afghan aircraft entered Pakistan airspace and that two Pakistani aircraft patrolling the area chased them across the border over neighboring Afghanistan.

Pakistani military officials said one of the Afghan planes then downed the F-16 with an air-to-air missile, according to U.S. analysts.

Pakistan operates 40 F-16s which it has received under a $3.2 billion military aid plan that began in 1981.

An administration official described the aircraft as 'indisputably superior' to any comparable Soviet planes in the region. The official said Pakistan was particularly embarrassed about the accident because the F-16 has 'seized the imagination of the Pakistani people' to the extent that there are 'F-16 cafes, F-16 T-shirts and F-16 bumper stickers. You can even see F-16s on the flaps of buses in Islamabad.'

Administration officials told UPI the actual accidental shoot-down of the F-16 occurred May 1 when a pair of F-16s were flying air patrol along the hostile Afghan border.

A U.S. intelligence source said, 'The Soviets attempted deception,' using the Su-22s as decoys to lure the F-16s into pursuit and then 'ambushed them with MiGs.'

Said one, 'The Afghan pilots like to fly in trail -- in other words, two or three planes fly abreast with other planes following two to four miles behind.'

In the ensuing dogfight, an F-16 fired an AIM-9L air-to-air missile and turned, but the plane on his wing 'crossed into the missile's path' and 'simply flew into it,' administration officials said.

A U.S. analyst said, 'This isn't hearsay. Theevidence is indisputable.'

A State Department official said 'this kind of accident is not unknown to our own Air Force,' noting that at least three similar incidents had occurred during the Vietnam War involving F-4 fighter bombers.

According to Soviet-controlled Afghanistan press reports at the time, the F-16s were in pursuit of Soviet-made Su-22 fighter-bombers when they were 'jumped' -- or surprised -- by MiG-23 fighters.

The Afghan press reports simply said the Pakistani had been downed.

Administration officials said that the F-16 crashed on Afghan territory. The pilot ejected, and parachuted into Afghanistan. He later was safely returned to Pakistan by Mujahedin rebels, they said.

A U.S. intelligence source said that the accident 'is by no means' a reflection on the competence of the Pakistan Air Force whose pilots are 'excellent -- second perhaps only to Israel's in skill and capability.'

On March 30, Pakistani F-16s shot down two Soviet aircraft, a An-26 bomber and a Su-22 fighter, in air-to-air skirmishes over Pakistani territory, administration officials said. On April 16, Pakistan F-16s destroyed another Su-22.

'Most violations of Pakistan territory are very quick and very shallow. You have to be there on the spot,' administration officials said.

The officials said that there have been 497 violations of Pakistan's airspace as of July 3, exceeding the 1986 pace that resulted in a year-end total of 750 violations.

Pakistan is still talking with the United States about acquiring three Grumman E-2C Hawkeye airborne warning planes to help curb incursions by Soviet fighters from Afghanistan, but the Joint Chiefs of Staff argued that there are no Hawkeyes available and assigning any to Pakistan would lower U.S. readiness requirements, administration officials said.


----------



## mingle

bl33d said:


> *This was posted just to point out that US count of F-16 cant be trusted as they would try to cover it up and a neutral party can only verify Indian Claims. Just that. Please dont start bashing me.*
> https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/0...Pakistani-F-16-US-in-a-coverup/8251553579200/
> 
> WASHINGTON -- A Pakistan Air Force F-16 accidentally shot down a companion F-16 previously reported to have been hit by a Soviet-made missile last May during combat over Afghanistan -- and U.S. officials assisted in the coverup, administration officials said Saturday.
> 
> 'It was pilot error,' a U.S. intelligence source said of the jet fighter's loss.
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan's attempt to cover up the accident was assisted by some Pentagon and State Department officials who felt the false report of a Soviet 'kill' might help promote Pakistan's bid to acquire sophisticated U.S.-made AWACS radar airplanes, administration sources told United Press International.
> 
> However, Pakistan first concocted the story primarily to 'save face' and prevent any embarrassment of its Air Force, which has created an F-16 craze among the Pakistani people, they said.
> 
> Asked about the disclosure that the plane was downed by friendly fire, a defense official at Pakistan's Washington embassy said, 'This we do not know because we have no links with our Air Force Department.' He declined further comment.
> 
> Ken Dirken, a State Department spokesman, denied any department involvement in a coverup of the accident, arguing that the United States lacked 'independent means of confirmation.' A Pentagon official, who stuck to the original contention that the Soviets downed the plane, acknowledged receiving reports of the accident but said they were regarded as 'less credible' than Pakistan's official version.
> 
> Following the incident, administration officials quoted Pakistani counterparts as announcing that six Soviet-made Afghan aircraft entered Pakistan airspace and that two Pakistani aircraft patrolling the area chased them across the border over neighboring Afghanistan.
> 
> Pakistani military officials said one of the Afghan planes then downed the F-16 with an air-to-air missile, according to U.S. analysts.
> 
> Pakistan operates 40 F-16s which it has received under a $3.2 billion military aid plan that began in 1981.
> 
> An administration official described the aircraft as 'indisputably superior' to any comparable Soviet planes in the region. The official said Pakistan was particularly embarrassed about the accident because the F-16 has 'seized the imagination of the Pakistani people' to the extent that there are 'F-16 cafes, F-16 T-shirts and F-16 bumper stickers. You can even see F-16s on the flaps of buses in Islamabad.'
> 
> Administration officials told UPI the actual accidental shoot-down of the F-16 occurred May 1 when a pair of F-16s were flying air patrol along the hostile Afghan border.
> 
> A U.S. intelligence source said, 'The Soviets attempted deception,' using the Su-22s as decoys to lure the F-16s into pursuit and then 'ambushed them with MiGs.'
> 
> Said one, 'The Afghan pilots like to fly in trail -- in other words, two or three planes fly abreast with other planes following two to four miles behind.'
> 
> In the ensuing dogfight, an F-16 fired an AIM-9L air-to-air missile and turned, but the plane on his wing 'crossed into the missile's path' and 'simply flew into it,' administration officials said.
> 
> A U.S. analyst said, 'This isn't hearsay. Theevidence is indisputable.'
> 
> A State Department official said 'this kind of accident is not unknown to our own Air Force,' noting that at least three similar incidents had occurred during the Vietnam War involving F-4 fighter bombers.
> 
> According to Soviet-controlled Afghanistan press reports at the time, the F-16s were in pursuit of Soviet-made Su-22 fighter-bombers when they were 'jumped' -- or surprised -- by MiG-23 fighters.
> 
> The Afghan press reports simply said the Pakistani had been downed.
> 
> Administration officials said that the F-16 crashed on Afghan territory. The pilot ejected, and parachuted into Afghanistan. He later was safely returned to Pakistan by Mujahedin rebels, they said.
> 
> A U.S. intelligence source said that the accident 'is by no means' a reflection on the competence of the Pakistan Air Force whose pilots are 'excellent -- second perhaps only to Israel's in skill and capability.'
> 
> On March 30, Pakistani F-16s shot down two Soviet aircraft, a An-26 bomber and a Su-22 fighter, in air-to-air skirmishes over Pakistani territory, administration officials said. On April 16, Pakistan F-16s destroyed another Su-22.
> 
> 'Most violations of Pakistan territory are very quick and very shallow. You have to be there on the spot,' administration officials said.
> 
> The officials said that there have been 497 violations of Pakistan's airspace as of July 3, exceeding the 1986 pace that resulted in a year-end total of 750 violations.
> 
> Pakistan is still talking with the United States about acquiring three Grumman E-2C Hawkeye airborne warning planes to help curb incursions by Soviet fighters from Afghanistan, but the Joint Chiefs of Staff argued that there are no Hawkeyes available and assigning any to Pakistan would lower U.S. readiness requirements, administration officials said.


There is a member on this forum @Knuckles his father was that F16 driver. Grow up bit now and accept the defeat.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BL33D

mingle said:


> There is a member on this forum @Knuckles his father was that F16 driver. Grow up bit now and accept the defeat.


Accepted.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

ohhh bhai cover up ko mar goli just check how many pics and videos on social media of mig-21 hundreds of them . its smartphone era even beggars have smartphones . if an f-16 was fall down we will have dozens of pics videos of it . that day only two birds down mi-17 and mig-21 just search it you will find 500 people uploaded pics videos of these both birds . BTW you can think whatever its free .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Irfan Baloch

yea sure

ask Bangladesh or Nepal to count? 
dont look for something thats not there looking for F-16 
you might end up finding a downed SU 30 with an AMRAAM up its arse.

get over it buddy. PAF fucked the IAF to the core. in broad day light. leaving your PM to mourn that lack of Rafales made him see that day

no F-16 was lost on our side. the only air kill scored by IAF was that unfortunate Indian Mi 17 helicopter.




@Windjammer @DESERT FIGHTER @Areesh

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## The Eagle

India will never be able to get rid of the claim that made to calm public but failed to prove at all. By the way we are talking about no shot V/s friendly fire.

Even if it has to be covered, India has a lot of evidence, friends and then has the US Congress in pocket while having demand for fighter pilot, can easily price it.

The kill that India is looking at, is only that of Mi-17 and waved the piece of AMRAAM helping to validate another kill by PAF. India uses every satellite to find the so-called training camps but never found the downed Falcon. India should search and might help us find SU wreckage similarly to what Indians called it F-16 engine that turned out to be Mig-21. Eagerly waiting for India to search some proof. 

Desperation as such may be nothing except that it's haunting back Modi so badly and even those who trusted the hoax on 27th. Live with it.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## BL33D

Imran Khan said:


> ohhh bhai cover up ko mar goli just check how many pics and videos on social media of mig-21 hundreds of them . its smartphone era even beggars have smartphones . if an f-16 was fall down we will have dozens of pics videos of it . that day only two birds down mi-17 and mig-21 just search it you will find 500 people uploaded pics videos of these both birds . BTW you can think whatever its free .


han bhai, panga nhi le rha, jhoot hi hoga, bas came across something i thought worth mentioning , maaf hi kardo

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

self delete

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BL33D

The Eagle said:


> India will never be able to get rid of the claim that made to calm public but failed to prove at all. By the way we are talking about no shot V/s friendly fire.
> 
> Even if it has to be covered, India has a lot of evidence, friends and then has the US Congress in pocket while having demand for fighter pilot, can easily price it.


Maybe , even i think the evidence IAF provided was inadequate, but there are some stick points which will require some more evidence for me to let go of, but if its true i am sure in future some clue will come out becoz things like this in past have been hidden by various millitary and comes out later. I am saying its most probably not true but not certainly. Hope you understand my skepticism becoz there was this place charhoi in which communication, net everything was halted for more than a week after the fight, which was suspicious and there is a video of a pakistani saying something crashed there and the 1 month long time for showing balakot. These are circumstantial things and i understand they have less weight. And also i will agree that 27th feb went in pakistan favour decisively. But let me have my skepticism 




Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> self delete


kyunn ???? $_$


----------



## Imran Khan

these day a normal air crash have videos pics uploaded before even airforce reached that place look the last mig-21 baby fall down in desert of rajhistan before he touch down his video was captured .same can be seen last drone of pakistan navy was down 3 days ago people upload pics on social media .it was just tiny drone


----------



## BL33D

Imran Khan said:


> these day a normal air crash have videos pics uploaded before even airforce reached that place look the last mig-21 baby fall down in desert of rajhistan before he touch down his video was captured .same can be seen last drone of pakistan navy was down 3 days ago people upload pics on social media .it was just tiny drone


That is the case surely, but dont you think armies all over the world also hide so much stuff. Or you think everything is transparent becoz of the technology now ?


----------



## The Eagle

bl33d said:


> Maybe , even i think the evidence IAF provided was inadequate, but there are some stick points which will require some more evidence for me to let go of, but if its true i am sure in future some clue will come out becoz things like this in past have been hidden by various millitary and comes out later. I am saying its most probably not true but not certainly. Hope you understand my skepticism becoz there was this place charhoi in which communication, net everything was halted for more than a week after the fight, which was suspicious and there is a video of a pakistani saying something crashed there and the 1 month long time for showing balakot. These are circumstantial things and i understand they have less weight. And also i will agree that 27th feb went in pakistan favour decisively. But let me have my skepticism
> 
> 
> 
> kyunn ???? $_$



Why not to read in detail to satisfy your own skepticism.



bl33d said:


> That is the case surely, but dont you think armies all over the world also hide so much stuff. Or you think everything is transparent becoz of the technology now ?



Instead of acting too much innocent, bear the torture with us and go through all 63 pages. No more conspiracy based skepticism.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Imran Khan

bl33d said:


> That is the case surely, but dont you think armies all over the world also hide so much stuff. Or you think everything is transparent becoz of the technology now ?


they hide deep details not this much wide thing . only mig-21 was shot down and hundreds of peoples captured it with mobile cameras . we meet abhinandan from public videos . once ISPR chief said it right . these days if two bikes collide each other people start taking pics videos and uploading it and India is talking about hidden f-16 ?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## BL33D

The Eagle said:


> Why not to read in detail to satisfy your own skepticism.
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of acting too much innocent, bear the torture with us and go through all 63 pages. No more conspiracy based skepticism.


Thanks for merging, and i have and i think if there is anything more to reveal, it might come up later, i think there are still holes in the story from both IAF and PAF which i think retired people will fill slowly. Its for those time sake. You must agree too that there are some plot holes. Not everything became clear that day. I felt both sides didnt do justice to people like us who want to know the documentary of things that unfolded. Hope you see my point of view.



Imran Khan said:


> they hide deep details not this much wide thing . only mig-21 was shot down and hundreds of peoples captured it with mobile cameras . we meet abhinandan from public videos . once ISPR chief said it right . these days if two bikes collide each other people start taking pics videos and uploading it and India is talking about hidden f-16 ?


That very well maybe the case. Have you read about the time US stole the sunked nuclear submarine of Russia that came out decades later. Submarine + Nuclear + Russia , imagine the secrecy. So just saying not everything was cleared out that day.



The Eagle said:


> Why not to read in detail to satisfy your own skepticism.
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of acting too much innocent, bear the torture with us and go through all 63 pages. No more conspiracy based skepticism.


Oh you meant here, i would surely, thanks.


----------



## Imran Khan

just look at it its 7july paf drone crash people take pics and uploaded on fb twitter Instagram this place is somewhere middle of nowwhere talaging a village called sangwala villagers took pics before gov officials reach there
https://goo.gl/maps/YswUjZN6RazXBKma7

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Irfan Baloch

The Eagle said:


> India will never be able to get rid of the claim that made to calm public but failed to prove at all. By the way we are talking about no shot V/s friendly fire.
> 
> Even if it has to be covered, India has a lot of evidence, friends and then has the US Congress in pocket while having demand for fighter pilot, can easily price it.
> 
> The kill that India is looking at, is only that of Mi-17 and waved the piece of AMRAAM helping to validate another kill by PAF. India uses every satellite to find the so-called training camps but never found the downed Falcon. India should search and might help us find SU wreckage similarly to what Indians called it F-16 engine that turned out to be Mig-21. Eagerly waiting for India to search some proof.
> 
> Desperation as such may be nothing except that it's haunting back Modi so badly and even those who trusted the hoax on 27th. Live with it.



the most creditble claim Indians made so far to date is complied below in this image. the engine is of Mardan origin .even with the package and F-16 picture

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Imran Khan

bl33d said:


> Thanks for merging, and i have and i think if there is anything more to reveal, it might come up later, i think there are still holes in the story from both IAF and PAF which i think retired people will fill slowly. Its for those time sake. You must agree too that there are some plot holes. Not everything became clear that day. I felt both sides didnt do justice to people like us who want to know the documentary of things that unfolded. Hope you see my point of view.
> 
> 
> That very well maybe the case. Have you read about the time US stole the sunked nuclear submarine of Russia that came out decades later. Submarine + Nuclear + Russia , imagine the secrecy. So just saying not everything was cleared out that day.
> 
> 
> Oh you meant here, i would surely, thanks.


sunken sub is very secret thing and thats decades ago today a flying machine fall down villigeres beat anke video before gov reached haahhah i think you missed mig21 rajhistan video .pilot was not reached on ground and people reach with camera on crash site . just search it sir .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## The Eagle

Irfan Baloch said:


> the most creditble claim Indians made so far to date is complied below in this image. the engine is of Mardan origin .even with the package and F-16 picture



That was the part that worries us most, such claims and then their belief as well. I mean Sir, can't deal with this. 

Mardan origin engine 

Imagine 2 tourist guys had the picture with milestone at Wahga Border and then Indian LEAs were hunting for 2 terrorists. Hard to deal with this, I say again.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Irfan Baloch

The Eagle said:


> That was the part that worries us most, such claims and then their belief as well. I mean Sir, can't deal with this.
> 
> Mardan origin engine
> 
> Imagine 2 tourist guys had the picture with milestone at Wahga Border and then Indian LEAs were hunting for 2 terrorists. Hard to deal with this, I say again.


the Indian web force vanished on 27th of Feb together with its airforce after PAF opened its kill score of that conflict. I recall the entire Internet including Youtube and our news websites that are normally swarmed by Indian trolls were absolutely empty. the shock was sudden and so intense that it took a long time to recover and the best they came up with was our AMRAAM missile they found complaining that Pakistan used F-16 and then some genius told the long faced IAF leadership to change this complaint to claim that IAF shot down F-16 through the clueless Abhinanand who didnt even know where he was when he hit the ground and got roughed up by people

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Trailer23

bl33d said:


> *This was posted just to point out that US count of F-16 cant be trusted as they would try to cover it up and a neutral party can only verify Indian Claims. *


If memory serves, your Government was the one that first jumped the gun on demanding the United States do an inventory check on the PAF F-16's.

Its only when the decision went against India's favor that the Indian Government, the IAF & the Indian Media start giving the narrative the US was (now) covering for Pakistan.

Need I remind you that after the Balakot Strikes, India was boasting that all major Super Powers were with them on the assault on Pakistan - which coincidently included the US.

Since the events of 27th Feb., how many things have India or the Indian Air Force attempted to coverup which has blown up in their face?

The most compelling question that needs to be asked is, if push comes to shove and The One side that had the upper hand were to reveal (proof) the entire Operation - How would the other side respond to the general public?

And coming to your statement... Who would finance this venture?

Pakistan certainly isn't going to invite a neutral party/team from UK, France or wherever and pay for their services of an inventory check to please India.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Raider 21

mingle said:


> There is a member on this forum @Knuckles his father was that F16 driver. Grow up bit now and accept the defeat.


And it was no pilot error. Common point of trajectories. Rare, yet it happened. Around that year a Tomcat shot a Phantom down over US airspace with what I think was a Phoenix missile.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Adam_Khan

Knuckles said:


> And it was no pilot error. Common point of trajectories. Rare, yet it happened. Around that year a Tomcat shot a Phantom down over US airspace with what I think was a Phoenix missile.



Bro wasn't name of the pilot who fired the sidewinder S/L Amjid javed, I read somewhere a few years ago that he was fired afterwards. Is there any veracity in this claim?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raider 21

Chingez Khan said:


> Bro wasn't name of the pilot who fired the sidewinder S/L Amjid javed, I read somewhere a few years ago that he was fired afterwards. Is there any veracity in this claim?


Correction : Rank was Wing Commander. Yes unfortunately he lost his job a few months later. PAF was forced to let go one of the best commanding officers and fighter pilots the world has ever seen. Regardless his professionalism and hard work did not stay only in PAF, he proved his worth in PIA for over 20+ years as a pilot. The other pilot is still flying Vipers to this day.


----------



## messiach

You sure about this claim.


Knuckles said:


> Correction : Rank was Wing Commander. PAF was forced to let go one of the best commanding officers and fighter pilots the world has ever seen..


----------



## Raider 21

messiach said:


> You sure about this claim.


Yes. 150% sure.


----------



## Rayyan Khurram

well, they have to keep their morale and support intact so they have to lie lol


----------



## Trailer23

Muhammad Burham said:


>


Kid, I still do think you've fully understood how to post.

The video you have attached is a comparison between an F-16 & a Rafale, right?!!

The title of the thread is talking about: *All F-16's are accounted for by the US*.

So, why are you just uploading videos again & again that have nothing to do with the Topic at hand.

Look, i'm sure you seem really impressed by this YouTube Channel (_PAK Infotainer_), but unless you share your views - its pointless. And trust me, there are 100's of PAK Infotainer-type Channels giving the exact false made up information.

*ADVICE*: Before you post again, please read the Title of the Thread.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TheSnakeEatingMarkhur

Hi does anyone have full video of Rahul Kanwal Saying F16 was shot ?

I know clips are available online but I am afrer the whole video or anything with the timestamp on it.. 

If you have it please share it. THANK YOU


@Windjammer @Foxtrot Alpha @Trailer23


----------



## GumNaam

ghabrahat may sach buk gaya!

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## alee92nawaz

In the full clip he clearly says that Indian su-30 managed to shot down F-16 of PAF. Later that day they awarded it to abhi nandan


----------



## Mentee

alee92nawaz said:


> In the full clip he clearly says that Indian su-30 managed to shot down F-16 of PAF. Later that day they awarded it to abhi nandan



He says ? Who's he to say anything? I can also say a lot but i refrain saying


----------



## GumNaam

alee92nawaz said:


> In the full clip he clearly says that Indian su-30 managed to shot down F-16 of PAF. Later that day they awarded it to abhi nandan


and then he gets bitchslapping by the defacto american viceroy in india... 




what's the point of this thread? No F26 has been shot down, that's a foregone, factual conclusion...so why are we wasting bandwidth for no reason?

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## alee92nawaz

Mentee said:


> He says ? Who's he to say anything? I can also say a lot but i refrain saying


Bro I'm talking about the 11 second clip. In the full length clip, he clearly says something else. By the way, on this forum, you're not the only whom claims to know a lot but can't tell 


GumNaam said:


> and then he gets bitchslapping by the defacto american viceroy in india...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what's the point of this thread? No F26 has been shot down, that's a foregone, factual conclusion...so why are we wasting bandwidth for no reason?


Exactly that's my point as well.there shouldn't be a thread about the f-16 claim


----------



## Trailer23

TheSnakeEatingMarkhur said:


> Hi does anyone have full video of Rahul Kanwal Saying F16 was shot ?
> 
> I know clips are available online but I am afrer the whole video or anything with the timestamp on it..
> 
> If you have it please share it. THANK YOU


It doesn't exist anymore.

India Today removed it and cut short this interview of their Defense Analyst, Abhijit Iyer Mitra...





The fact/truth is that India Today not only cut the transmission by (probably) going into a commercial break, but they also removed it from their YouTube Channel.

I'm a master of searching for things on YouTube. If its there - i'll find it. I can't cure Cancer, just like I can't find something that doe not exist anymore. I'm sure India Today took the recorded DV at the back of the building and burned it.

We're just fortunate that someone had been recording the whole transmission that morning and were able to get these 2 gem of videos.

Video 1. Is proof that a Su-30 was shot down.
Video 2. Though not considered as proof if you know what the difference is between a GE/P&W and Russian Mig-21 Engine. But its funny because that idiot Rahul got sckooled by a gay on live TV,

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## PakistaniAtBahrain

Trailer23 said:


> Video 1. Is proof that a Su-30 was shot down.



which one is Video 1? you have a link?


----------



## TheSnakeEatingMarkhur

Trailer23 said:


> It doesn't exist anymore.
> 
> India Today removed it and cut short this interview of their Defense Analyst, Abhijit Iyer Mitra...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact/truth is that India Today not only cut the transmission by (probably) going into a commercial break, but they also removed it from their YouTube Channel.
> 
> I'm a master of searching for things on YouTube. If its there - i'll find it. I can't cure Cancer, just like I can't find something that doe not exist anymore. I'm sure India Today took the recorded DV at the back of the building and burned it.
> 
> We're just fortunate that someone had been recording the whole transmission that morning and were able to get these 2 gem of videos.
> 
> Video 1. Is proof that a Su-30 was shot down.
> Video 2. Though not considered as proof if you know what the difference is between a GE/P&W and Russian Mig-21 Engine. But its funny because that idiot Rahul got sckooled by a gay on live TV,


Im after video 1 details... like what time he said it and all that but I am sure its gone now


----------



## Trailer23

PakistaniAtBahrain said:


> which one is Video 1? you have a link?


Video 1 is the one where Rahul says: _"An F-16 of the Pakistani Air Force shot down a Sukhoi-30MKi"_


----------

