# Type 055 DDG News & Discussions



## cnleio

China 12,000ton 055 class DDG plan, all 055 information update in this thread. Ths

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## ChineseTiger1986

It was made by a military amateur from the CD forum.

But i doubt it represents the true form of the Type 055.

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## mado yu

so fake 
type 055 should equip with Vertical launching anti-ship missiles instead of Inclined type missile launcher


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## ChineseTiger1986

Here is an upper superstructure module of the Type 055.


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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Here is an upper superstructure module of the Type 055.


What it looks like? A integrated radar shipbridge ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> What it looks like? A integrated radar shipbridge ?



Pretty much.


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## UKBengali

This ship will be a true monster as it could carry hundreds of anti-air, anti-ship and cruise missiles.

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## aliaselin

experimental platform on land for type 055

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## cirr

Looked from a different angle：

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## mado yu

type 055 will build until 2015


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## cirr

The pics in #8 and #9 were taken at 701‘s full-scale electromagnetic compatibility（EMC）test field。

There is a further pic showing a stealth mast at the same site。


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## qwerrty

form those pictures, this hip looks nothing like all those fan arts that we've seen. lol. the structure not finished yet. it could be just some fancy house


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## aliaselin

How type 055 looks like：


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## mado yu

does anyone have the picture of the experimental platform on land for 054b


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## ChineseTiger1986

This should be the authentic look of the Type 055, but at least it does look much better than DDG-1000.

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## UKBengali

^^^ Looks a bit ugly but all that counts is the sensors and weapons at the end of the day.

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## ChineseTiger1986

UKBengali said:


> ^^^ Looks a bit ugly but all that counts is the sensors and weapons at the end of the day.



Yep, all futuristic things may look ugly at the first glance, just like when i first saw the Type 052C back in 2003, i found it ugly compared to the traditional warships without any radar signal reduction hull.

But now, the Type 052D has been praised with its beauty.

BTW, this is the experimental module of the Type 45 on the land.

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## UKBengali

@ChineseTiger1986 : What do you think the build rate of the Type 055 will be?


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## ChineseTiger1986

UKBengali said:


> @ChineseTiger1986 : What do you think the build rate of the Type 055 will be?



Now the Type 055 definitely looks like a weirdo, so it must have used a lot of unprecedented futuristic technologies.

So before 2020, China is likely to build 2 experimental units just like the ships 170 and 171 of the Type 052C.

Until 2020, when the overall integrated system becomes more mature, the coming Type 055A may come into a much larger mass production. And i think that the Type 055A may also consider the nuclear propulsion, since China doesn't have the oversea military bases, it can have a lot problems with the replenishment. So the nuclear propulsion can overall ease a lot of these problems.

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## UKBengali

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Now the Type 055 definitely looks like a weirdo, so it must have used a lot of unprecedented futuristic technologies.
> 
> So before 2020, China is likely to build 2 experimental units just like the ships 170 and 171 of the Type 052C.
> 
> Until 2020, when the overall integrated system becomes more mature, the coming Type 055A may come into a much larger mass production. And i think that the Type 055A may also consider the nuclear propulsion, since China doesn't have the oversea military bases, it cannot have a lot problems with the replenishment. So the nuclear propulsion can overall ease a lot of these problems.



So we can look forward to Type 055A paying visits to BD, Sri Lanka and Pakistan on a regular basis?

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## ChineseTiger1986

UKBengali said:


> So we can look forward to Type 055A paying visits to BD, Sri Lanka and Pakistan on a regular basis?



When the port of Gwadar is ready, then you will have a lot of chance to see these ships patrolling around the Indian Ocean.

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## UKBengali

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> When the port of Gwadar is ready, then you will have a lot of chance to see these ships patrolling around the Indian Ocean.




Chinese presence in Indian Oceean is very much required for a peaceful and prosperous South Asian region.

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## mado yu

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This should be the authentic look of the Type 055, but at least it does look much better than DDG-1000.


awesome

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## cirr

Possible configurations in the eyes and mind of a “fanboy”：

个人补脑055完工状态，不知和真实会是咋样





个人感觉还是双桅杆靠谱点





再加一个，动力中置，类似伯克级的布局

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## mado yu

cirr said:


>


is there any picture of 054b


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## cirr



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## cirr

mado yu said:


> is there any picture of 054b



You could be looking at it：











Still very much work in progress。And according to some insiders，design for Type 055 has been more or less finalized。

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## qwerrty

cirr said:


> Possible configurations in the eyes and mind of a “fanboy”：
> 
> 个人补脑055完工状态，不知和真实会是咋样
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 个人感觉还是双桅杆靠谱点
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 再加一个，动力中置，类似伯克级的布局





most probably none of the above. clearly the structure is not completed yet.


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## aliaselin

mado yu said:


> is there any picture of 054b


Maybe this one：


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## cnleio

cirr said:


>


I guess 8,000ton can finish this 055 design, not we talked 12,000ton. How many VLS plan to install on it, 128x or more ?


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## cnleio




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## cnleio

China 055 DDG draft, 2015 start building

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## mado yu

aliaselin said:


> Maybe this one：
> View attachment 23887


thanks


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## cnleio

China 055 DDG CG


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## Sasquatch

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This should be the authentic look of the Type 055, but at least it does look much better than DDG-1000.



Call me a skeptic but is there any official source this is the final design ? POP3 confirmed this design ? The Image above looks like the more likely design.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Hu Songshan said:


> Call me a skeptic but is there any official source this is the final design ? POP3 confirmed this design ? The Image above looks like the more likely design.



POP3 said the Type 055 will be very futuristic, while the images above don't look very futuristic, and it does look more like a Type 052E than a Type 055.

Also, POP3 is not the only big shrimp here, while many other big shrimps also lean towards the more futuristic one.

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## cnleio

This 055 CG is more realistic, i trust this design.
128x VLS is wonderful !


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## cnleio

China integrated radar mast development for 055 DDG

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## cirr

I believe that the integrated mast shown above is for a new type of stealth frigate, aka Type 054B or 057 FFG.


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## cnleio

Close to the real, a 055 DDG CG


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## cnleio

A military fan's CG, i just think the shipbody design is beauty.


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## Sasquatch

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> POP3 said the Type 055 will be very futuristic, while the images above don't look very futuristic, and it does look more like a Type 052E than a Type 055.
> 
> Also, POP3 is not the only big shrimp here, while many other big shrimps also lean towards the more futuristic one.



US is already getting ready to deploy a railgun soon on the Alreigh Burke, hopefully the Type 55 development has more rapid pace, the Type 55A will do the same.


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## rockstar08

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> When the port of Gwadar is ready, then you will have a lot of chance to see these ships patrolling around the Indian Ocean.



I strongly agree with you .... it will be so good to see some Chinese warships in gawadar port

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## cnleio

Future China 055 will looks like Britain type45 DDG, just bigger and more VLS missiles.

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## longlong

cnleio said:


> Future China 055 will looks like Britain type45 DDG, just bigger and more VLS missiles.


Please don't.
Very ugly, like a float lighthouse.

British have special passion for ugly design, don't follow, please!


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## cnleio

longlong said:


> Please don't.
> Very ugly, like a float lighthouse.
> 
> British have special passion for ugly design, don't follow, please!


HeHe, the powerful warship is not a beautiful ship like USS Ticonderoga cruiser.


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## cnleio

Sorry,only Chinese language to introduce 055 DDG development.

Summary: 
055 DDG developed from 052D DDG technology, its shipbody and radar system is new, mature weapons system from 052D. 055 DDG built for China Oversea Interests and Blue Water Operation, Central Command Ship of PLAN warship fleet, core guard ship of PLAN A.C Strick Fleet. Yes 055 DDG's size over 10,000ton. Now China warships development: 1,000ton 056 / 4,000ton 054A / 6,000ton 052C/D / 10,000ton 055.

Engine Power:
China 055 DDG using 4x mature QC280 gas turbines, right now not Electric propulsion power.

Weapon system:
055 will install 052D's VLS-launched HHQ-9B anti-aircraft missiles and YJ-18A anti-ship missiles (055's 10,000ton size much bigger than 052D, can install more missiles onboard), 130mm gun, CV16's type1130 CIWS and anti-torpedo device. 055 will deploy Navy Z-8 anti-sub helicopter. 055's VLS system from 052D's, it's China universal VLS can install anti-aircraft/anti-ship/anti-sub/cruise missiles.


鼎盛POP3:中国海军新一代驱逐舰展望


> 随着中国经济的发展，中国对海上运输线的依赖程度越来越高，保护中国的海上运输线和海外利益的需求也更加迫切。中国海军今后所面临的任务，已不局限于在传统的中国临海和中国海洋大陆架周边的作战，而是提升拓展到具有全球作战的能力，可以有能力在全球任何一个热点地区捍卫中国的国家政治、经济利益，保护海外侨民。在全球化进程中，中国的国家安全问题呈现出综合性、复杂性和多变性的特点。准确把握住未来军事斗争准备的脉络和方向，统筹谋划，未雨绸缪，建立适合未来战争需要的武器装备体系成为中国海军的当务之急。展望中国海军未来的主要战略任务，应该是①捍卫中国海洋领土的安全；②在海洋领土纠纷中战胜对手，夺回失地；③登陆作战中打击陆上目标，输送人员武器，掩护登陆；④保卫中国海上经济运输线；⑤在全球捍卫中国国家利益，实施战略威慑。而055型驱逐舰正是这一战略需求下的产物，是中国海军武器装备体系中不可或缺的主战装备。
> 
> 055型驱逐舰的作战使命，是为岛链外远海乃至中国的全球战略服务，是捍卫中国海上经济命脉、打击敌对国家海上和空中及陆上目标，保卫中国海洋利益的利器。055型驱逐舰具有强大的单舰综合作战能力，在海上舰艇编队作战群中承担指挥舰的任务，同时也是我国航母战斗群配套的主战驱逐舰。055型驱逐舰的出现，将进一步完善中国海军在沿海、岛链直至全球的武力投送能力，而与此相对应，水面战斗舰艇也形成1000吨级、4000吨级、6000吨级和10000吨级不同层次的发展方向。
> 
> 早在1968年2月，七院根据海军党委给中央军委《关于建造远洋护航舰船的建议》的报告，向所属单位下达了开展大型驱逐舰舰战术技术方案论证的任务，确定设计055型驱逐舰。1976年3月，国务院和中央军委以国发【1976】19号文件正式向国防工办、第六机械工业部等有关单位下达了研制055大型导弹驱逐舰的任务。由于当时提出的指标超出了中国国防工业科技水平，不具备研制这样一型驱逐舰的条件和能力，1981年，国防科委和国家机械委联合决定将055型驱逐舰从正式型号研制改列为预先研究。时隔四十多年后，此型号得以重生，这是中国科技进步和国力提升的结果，而重生的055型驱逐舰在吨位、技术含量等各方面都全面超越了当年的立项指标，将成为中国海军最新一代大型远洋驱逐舰。
> 
> 055型驱逐舰具有较高的续航力、较长的自持力和全球适航性，可在除极区以外无限航区遂行作战任务，具有强悍的单舰综合作战能力，具有远、中、近三层软硬武器先期预警防御网和攻击火力网及较高的信息化水平。具有防空、反潜、反舰和电子战能力，在需要时，也可执行对陆攻击和遂行火力支援的任务。055型驱逐舰具有良好的隐身性、快速性和居住性，采用全舰外形隐身设计，降低雷达波散射面积；通过顶层设计降低全舰自噪声指标和水下辐射噪声指标；对舰艇的红外辐射采用抑制、隔离等手段降低红外辐射场；本舰的消磁系统能保证在一定水深的区域内防御磁性水雷攻击；对全舰的探测器天线、电子对抗天线、通信天线、导航天线等进行集成和共形设计，并进行空间优化布置，以最大限度保证全舰电子设备、电引爆武器等工作时的电磁兼容性及全舰的隐身性能。
> 
> 055型驱逐舰是中国海军第一型万吨级远洋驱逐舰，其排水量的大小取决于中国的国家战略和与此相适应的海军发展战略。但中国海军从不一味追求舰艇排水量的增大，相反，中国海军对舰艇的排水量一直采取控制发展的策略，在完成相同作战使命任务的提前下，舰艇的排水量要求尽量降低。中国海军对于控制舰艇的排水量、提高单位火力密度、增强舰艇隐身性、提高舰艇装备的集成度、提高舰艇的自动化程度、缩减人员、降低建造和维护成本等方面一直进行不懈的努力，这也是其舰艇发展的主要思路之一。
> 
> 055型驱逐舰预计仍然采用与052D型驱逐舰相同的国产QC280型燃气轮机，不会采用电力推进的动力方式，QC280型燃气轮机是中国海军目前唯一已经实用化装舰的国产舰用燃气轮机。055型驱逐舰虽然是新研制的大型导弹驱逐舰，但并非凭空想象而来，是中国海军多年经验积累的结果，是立足于中国现有的科技水平和设备制造能力，在技术体制上仍然会延续以往的成熟经验和成熟设备，并采用新技术和新装备进行作战能力的提升。055型舰的作战系统体系结构和作战指挥模式与052D型舰相同，采用“集中指挥、综合组织、三级管理”的模式，提高作战流程的效率。
> 
> 舰载武器方面，055型驱逐舰与052D型驱逐舰有着一定的延续和继承关系，在052D型舰的基础上构建其舰载武器系统。055型舰与052D型舰属于同一时期的产物，起步时间相差无几，而在如此短暂的时间段内，是无法完成新一代武器系统的研制过程，052D型驱逐舰快速进入建造，得益于平台的成熟，在成熟的平台上升级部分子系统从而大幅度提高作战效能是一个军事效益和经济效益都不错的选择，同时，052D型舰的建造也为055型舰的建造在某些方面积累了经验。
> 
> 055型舰的主炮系统预计仍会采用单管130毫米舰炮武器系统，这是中国海军舰炮规划体制里大口径舰炮的发展方向，而激光炮、电磁炮等新概念舰炮武器则不可能出现在055型驱逐舰上。中国海军非常重视近防武器系统的研究发展，对于055型舰这样高价值大型驱逐舰，其近防系统会采用“辽宁”号航母上相同的武器型号配置，即采用11管30毫米舰炮武器系统和HQ-10型近程导弹武器系统构建近程反导硬防御系统。舰载对空、对舰导弹武器系统沿用052D型驱逐舰相同的型号，采用通用垂直发射系统，搭载HHQ-9B型舰空导弹和YJ-18A型反舰导弹。由于055型舰具有上万吨排水量的优势，毫无疑问发射单元的数量更多，发射单元数量上的优势也使得各型导弹在弹种和携带基数上更为灵活。055型舰的通用导弹垂直发射系统另外一个优势在于其通用性，这无疑为以后中程舰空导弹和对陆攻击巡航导弹及其他弹种的上舰融合奠定了良好基础。055型舰还采用了与“辽宁”号航母相同的反鱼雷武器系统，这使得该型舰在反鱼雷作战能力上得到了较大的提高。055型舰在反潜作战性能上提升较大，可搭载直-8型反潜直升机，直-8型反潜直升机是“辽宁”号航母的舰载机种之一。直-8型反潜直升机的搭载使055型驱逐舰对水下目标探测能力和攻击能力及范围都有了较大的提高，增强了对远区水下目标的探测和打击能力。新型的舰载声呐的使用更是提高了本舰对水下目标的探测精度，此外，舰载反潜武器系统也是该型舰的标准配置。

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## cnleio

055

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## Indus Falcon

No bow thrusters?


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## qwerrty

Abu Nasar said:


> No bow thrusters?


just fanart


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## cnleio

Abu Nasar said:


> No bow thrusters?


Why bow thruster ? It's few to see warship using bow thrusters, even China 056 / 054A / 052C/D didn't install it. The West warship also didn't use bow thrusters.


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## Indus Falcon

Well it doesn't matter whether it's used in west or not, (it's making it's way in btw), but bow thrusters reduce the dependance on a tug and therefore decreases the time to deploy a ship. Otherwise you have ships standing in port waiting for tugs to push them out. This is dangerous when a port is under attack. 

I've seen cruise liners go from port side to sea, without tugs, just because they had bow thrusters. You might say it's a passive defensive system


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## Indus Falcon

The Hunt Class vessels are fitted with two 1.42MW Ruston-Paxman 9-59K Deltic diesel engines driving two shafts. The maximum speed is 15kt. A Deltic 0.582MW 9-55B diesel provides pulse generation and auxiliary power. B*ow thrusters are fitted for manoeuvrability and precise station keeping. *The vessels have a range of 1,500 nm.

In October 2010, BAE Systems signed a £ 15m contract to replace the 30-year-old propulsion systems onboard eight Royal Navy Hunt Class vessels. All vessels will be fitted with new engines, gearboxes, bow thrusters, propellers and machinery control systems by 2016 as part of the contract.

Hunt Class Minesweeper / Minehunter - Naval Technology


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## Obambam

Abu Nasar said:


> Well it doesn't matter whether it's used in west or not, (it's making it's way in btw), but bow thrusters reduce the dependance on a tug and therefore decreases the time to deploy a ship. Otherwise you have ships standing in port waiting for tugs to push them out. This is dangerous when a port is under attack.
> 
> I've seen cruise liners go from port side to sea, without tugs, just because they had bow thrusters. You might say it's a passive defensive system



Don't worry, they are coming.

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## cnleio

Obambam said:


> Don't worry, they are coming.


Funny


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## cnleio

A eliminated design model for China 055 DDG (The designwork was conservative, a larger version of 052D) FAIL ~!


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## qwerrty

cnleio said:


> A eliminated design model for China 055 DDG (The designwork was conservative, a larger version of 052D) FAIL ~!



looks cgi


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## cnleio

Chinese workers continue building the house in WuHan city, what u think ?! 















===================================================================>


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## maniac

Just saw the new photos on CJDBY. These look good, but not great. It will be much better if the front AEGISs are put above the bridge.


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## ChineseTiger1986

It does look very nice with the integrated mast.

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## rcrmj

055 wont be as futuristic as DDG1000, and it wont be equipped with laser gun nor nuclear propulsion```it is going to use all mature design, techs and systems (90% are known to the public or used on current PLAN warships)

its VSL modular has neither 96 nor more than 128 

there might be one thing that can be interesting, that is it will feature X and S band AESA radars on it

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## Beidou2020

rcrmj said:


> 055 wont be as futuristic as DDG1000, and it wont be equipped with laser gun nor nuclear propulsion```it is going to use all mature design, techs and systems (90% are known to the public or used on current PLAN warships)
> 
> its VSL modular has neither 96 nor more than 128
> 
> there might be one thing that can be interesting, that is it will feature X and S band AESA radars on it



So the type 055 will be a massive disappointment.

Man I was hoping for a 12,000 ton destroyer with 128 VLS that has laser weapons and rail guns.

This is the problem with Chinese society. Lack of innovation of disruptive technologies due to fear of failure.

Until that fear of failure is gone and we are determined to experiment with new things and be bold and take risks, we will NEVER be a match for the US in the 21st century or the 22nd century.

All those patents are useless unless China learns to be more aggressive in adopting new technologies and willing to take risks.

That risk taking culture is not present in Chinese society unlike in American society. China is too risk averse.

True Innovation comes from risk taking cultures.


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## Jlaw

Beidou2020 said:


> So the type 055 will be a massive disappointment.
> 
> Man I was hoping for a 12,000 ton destroyer with 128 VLS that has laser weapons and rail guns.
> 
> This is the problem with Chinese society. Lack of innovation of disruptive technologies due to fear of failure.
> 
> Until that fear of failure is gone and we are determined to experiment with new things and be bold and take risks, we will NEVER be a match for the US in the 21st century or the 22nd century.
> 
> All those patents are useless unless China learns to be more aggressive in adopting new technologies and willing to take risks.
> 
> That risk taking culture is not present in Chinese society unlike in American society. China is too risk averse.
> 
> True Innovation comes from risk taking cultures.


The current emperors are not risk takers. They care more about saving face.


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## Beidou2020

Jlaw said:


> The current emperors are not risk takers. They care more about saving face.



Innovation is about risk taking. It's taking the risk of going to the path of unknown and finding something new during that path.

Innovation is also taking discoveries in the lab and turning it into a useful commercial product that can improve things.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> So the type 055 will be a massive disappointment.
> 
> Man I was hoping for a 12,000 ton destroyer with 128 VLS that has laser weapons and rail guns.
> 
> This is the problem with Chinese society. Lack of innovation of disruptive technologies due to fear of failure.
> 
> Until that fear of failure is gone and we are determined to experiment with new things and be bold and take risks, we will NEVER be a match for the US in the 21st century or the 22nd century.
> 
> All those patents are useless unless China learns to be more aggressive in adopting new technologies and willing to take risks.
> 
> That risk taking culture is not present in Chinese society unlike in American society. China is too risk averse.
> 
> True Innovation comes from risk taking cultures.



We are not up there, the Type 055 definitely will not have those ultra-futuristic things.

But the Type 055A will have, since they need to first initialize the Type 055 as a platform for the future Type 055A.



rcrmj said:


> 055 wont be as futuristic as DDG1000, and it wont be equipped with laser gun nor nuclear propulsion```it is going to use all mature design, techs and systems (90% are known to the public or used on current PLAN warships)
> 
> its VSL modular has neither 96 nor more than 128
> 
> there might be one thing that can be interesting, that is it will feature X and S band AESA radars on it



The DDG-1000 right now is a pain in the *** for the USN, the dual band radar is not even ready, then forgot about the railgun and the 100+ km laser gun for the moment.

And you got this information from Slayerhuahua, but it is only her personal speculation, no one can confirm anything before the Type 055 is ready to put on the table.


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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We are not up there, the Type 055 definitely will not have those ultra-futuristic things.
> 
> But the Type 055A will have, since they need to first initialize the Type 055 as a platform for the future Type 055A.
> 
> 
> 
> The DDG-1000 right now is a pain in the *** for the USN, the dual band radar is not even ready, then forgot about the railgun and the 100+ km laser gun for the moment
> 
> And you got this information from Slayerhuahua, but it is only her personal speculation, no one can confirm anything before the Type 055 is ready to put on the table.



So what the heck does the type 055 provide over the type 052D?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Jlaw said:


> The current emperors are not risk takers. They care more about saving face.



The science is science, there is no luck or fluke about it.

When you are not 100% ready, then better not to be bold.

We are bold and ahead of the US in the HGV because we are 100% confident about this technology, while the 100000+ tons nuclear supercarrier with the EMALS, we are not 100% ready yet, then better not to be bold, when the mistakes happened, it will even consume you more time to fix everything than starting later with the more mature technologies.



Beidou2020 said:


> So what the heck does the type 055 provide over the type 052D?



A larger platform with more firepower, also the dual band radar with the integrated mast.

When the platform evolved into a more mature Type 055A, then the railgun and laser gun could be implemented into it.

Even it is 112 VLS, it doesn't matter, just look how the Type 052D has 25% of more VLS units compared to the Type 052C.

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## Genesis

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The science is science, there is no luck or fluke about it.
> 
> When you are not 100% ready, then better not to be bold.
> 
> We are bold and ahead of the US in the HGV because we are 100% confident about this technology, while the 100000+ tons nuclear EMALS, we are not 100% ready yet, then better not to be bold, when the mistakes happened, it will even consume you more time to fix everything than starting later with more mature technologies.



That's true, biting more than we can chew and suddenly we are in a situation like our neighbor to the West. One ship every ten years.


For now we need to more or less match the US fleet in numbers and mature technologies, go for big steps after we are set.

If we take a big step now and something goes wrong, we are pretty much screwed for 10-20 years.

Unlike the US we don't have 60 Burke + to fall back on. 

So currently, it's a good move.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Genesis said:


> That's true, biting more than we can chew and suddenly we are in a situation like our neighbor to the West. One ship every ten years.
> 
> 
> For now we need to more or less match the US fleet in numbers and mature technologies, go for big steps after we are set.
> 
> If we take a big step now and something goes wrong, we are pretty much screwed for 10-20 years.
> 
> Unlike the US we don't have 60 Burke + to fall back on.
> 
> So currently, it's a good move.



Just look at India, they were not ready to build an advanced DDG, now they chose to rush, then Kolkata is not even deployed after more than a decade of struggle.

China can start to build the 100000+ tons nuclear supercarrier with the EMALS right now, but then be prepared to be screwed up for wasting more than 10 years to fix all those premature problems.

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## Beidou2020

So what will be the type 055 equivalent in the US Navy?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> So what will be the type 055 equivalent in the US Navy?



The Arleigh Burke Flight III, or a bit more, since it has more stealth features with the integrated mast.

Forget about the DDG-1000, since it is a failure, just look at the number has been cut from 32 to 3.

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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Arleigh Burke Flight III, or a bit more, since it has more stealth features with the integrated mast.
> 
> Forget about the DDG-1000, since it is a failure, just look at the number has been cut from 32 to 3.



What are the specs for AB III?

How many VLS does AB III have?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> What are the specs for AB III?
> 
> How many VLS does AB III have?



The displacement will be about 10000 tons compared to the 9200 tons of the Flight IIA.

The number of VLS is still 96, but it is the more advanced and flexible MK-57 compared to the MK-41 of the Flight I/II/IIA and Tico.

But the Flight III won't be ready until 2020-2025.

The 128 VLS is nice, but don't act like the end of the world if we won't have this number for the earlier model of the Type 055.

Just because that stupid Sejong the Great has that number, but you have to know that Sejong has two type of VLS, one is the obsolete MK-41 (80 units), while the other is the even watered down Korean version (48 units).

While the Flight III is mile ahead of Sejong, would you pick Sejong over the Flight III just because it has more VLS units?

Even the Flight IIA can beat the shit out of Sejong, since Sejong is just a poor clone of it.

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## rcrmj

Beidou2020 said:


> So the type 055 will be a massive disappointment.
> 
> Man I was hoping for a 12,000 ton destroyer with 128 VLS that has laser weapons and rail guns.
> 
> This is the problem with Chinese society. Lack of innovation of disruptive technologies due to fear of failure.
> 
> Until that fear of failure is gone and we are determined to experiment with new things and be bold and take risks, we will NEVER be a match for the US in the 21st century or the 22nd century.
> 
> All those patents are useless unless China learns to be more aggressive in adopting new technologies and willing to take risks.
> 
> That risk taking culture is not present in Chinese society unlike in American society. China is too risk averse.
> 
> True Innovation comes from risk taking cultures.


there is nothing to be disappoint about, 
laser weapon and rail guns are nothing but your hot dreams, it will take much longer time to have them ready for practical deployment. and it has nothing to do with innovation or patents, you are too simple and naive about defense industry 

055 is a critical project for PLAN to deal with imminent threat up to 2030 in the open sea, so fancy, conceptual and ideological weapons are NO NO for building an efficient reliable and robust weapon platform..

and the funnier part is that you are even linking chinese/american culture with 055 project``lol

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## rcrmj

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We are not up there, the Type 055 definitely will not have those ultra-futuristic things.
> 
> But the Type 055A will have, since they need to first initialize the Type 055 as a platform for the future Type 055A.
> 
> The DDG-1000 right now is a pain in the *** for the USN, the dual band radar is not even ready, then forgot about the railgun and the 100+ km laser gun for the moment.
> 
> And you got this information from Slayerhuahua, but it is only her personal speculation, no one can confirm anything before the Type 055 is ready to put on the table.



i can only tell you that I formed my view on 055 based on rational analysis on various articles. 

but no doubt, capability wise 055 will be at the top league world wide, neither Europ nor Russia will have anything close to that for at least 2 decades

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## cnleio

055's weapons come from 052D and CV16 existing weapons system, it just install new X and S band 2x AESA radars and reach 12,000ton-size .

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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> 055 wont be as futuristic as DDG1000, and it wont be equipped with laser gun nor nuclear propulsion```it is going to use all mature design, techs and systems (90% are known to the public or used on current PLAN warships)
> 
> its VSL modular has neither 96 nor more than 128
> 
> there might be one thing that can be interesting, that is it will feature X and S band AESA radars on it



According to the relative of a PLA naval engineer, the 055 will have 128 cells according to last year status of the design.

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## lcloo

The 130mm main gun will have rocket assisted precision ammunition similar to the army's 155mm self-propelled guns, with estimated range of 100km. It is said able to attack 40 targets in 10 minutes time.

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## cnleio

The 055 DDG building ...

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## cirr



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## cnleio



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## Gijoe

Guys, please confirm there is a rumour saying china got the technology of USS Zumwalt. China will built at least 10 of them.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Gijoe said:


> Guys, please confirm there is a rumour saying china got the technology of USS Zumwalt. China will built at least 10 of them.



It is false, since those anti-China news just keep coming up with those kind of unproven allegations and to downgrade China's innovation capability.

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## UKBengali

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is false, since those anti-China news just keep coming up with those kind of unproven allegations and to downgrade China's innovation capability.



Innovation comes once you have caught up.

They are just butt-hurt that China will catch up with them soon.

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## Speeder 2

if 054B's powerplant goes fully electric and functions well, any chance that 055 uses it as well? that would be better for blue water CVBG.

If it does, then theoritically no problem of using, at least start testing, laser and electromagnetic guns on 055B?


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## Gijoe

qwerrty said:


> confirmed; you have an anus on your forehead


Yup and you grow a d*ck out from your mouth for that anus you want.


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## Speeder 2

cnleio said:


>



that looks fantastic. is it more or less the final design?

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## cnleio

Speeder 2 said:


> that looks fantastic. is it more or less the final design?


Most ppl in Chinese military forums believe it will be the formal design for 055 DDG, 80% truth. It looks like a bigger size 052D DDG, with 96~128x VLS, X and S band AESA radars, 2x helo hangars.

I don't like the shipbody design, it will as ugly as Britain Type45 DDG, has a BIG HEAD ( X band AESA radar on the head).

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> Most ppl in Chinese military forums believe it will be the formal design for 055 DDG, 80% truth. It looks like a bigger size 052D DDG, with 96~128x VLS, X and S band AESA radars, 2x helo hangars.
> 
> I don't like the shipbody design, it will as ugly as Britain Type45 DDG, has a BIG HEAD ( X band AESA radar on the head).



The integrated mast isn't as exaggerated as the Type 45.

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## Pangu

The raised AESA on the rear make it looks like Flight IIA Arleigh Burke...

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## ChineseTiger1986

xudeen said:


> The raised AESA on the rear make it looks like Flight IIA Arleigh Burke...



The Flight III will also have this structure.

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## S10

What I don't understand is why they insist on placing the main arrays below the bridge. That only causes the superstructure to be taller, reducing the stability of their ship. Wouldn't it be a lot better if they elevated the array above the bridge, giving the radar an elevated position and lowering the center of gravity?

It's been said by slayerhuahua that the ship will have more than 96 cell VLS, but less than 128 than originally predicted. I wonder if they will have a common VLS system between 055 and 057.

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## longlong

Gijoe said:


> Guys, please confirm there is a rumour saying china got the technology of USS Zumwalt. China will built at least 10 of them.


You are confirmed.

Thanks to stolen technology from Yankee's Zumwalt ---- China made a state-of-art livestock carrier----, the animal are really happier through the long lonely journey to cross oceans.

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## JSCh



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## Beidou2020

If it's not 128 VLS, then it's a waste of time.

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## Beast

Beidou2020 said:


> If it's not 128 VLS, then it's a waste of time.



I too agree. 055 will be bloody expensive and its not going to build like 2 dozens of them. So why not try to pack as much fire power and usefulness to maximise those limited 055.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> If it's not 128 VLS, then it's a waste of time.



Wait to see, but even it is not 128, then wait for the Type 055A.



Beast said:


> I too agree. 055 will be bloody expensive and its not going to build like 2 dozens of them. So why not try to pack as much fire power and usefulness to maximise those limited 055.



According to General Yin Zhuo, the Type 055 is not that expensive, it will be built in larger number than the Type 052D.

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## cnleio

JSCh said:


>



A fat 052D  
Front 48x VLS + Back 64x VLS.

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## rcrmj

SinoSoldier said:


> According to the relative of a PLA naval engineer, the 055 will have 128 cells according to last year status of the design.


it is speculated, most likely to be 112 (i *'guessed'*)


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## rcrmj

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Wait to see, but even it is not 128, then wait for the Type 055A.
> 
> 
> 
> According to General Yin Zhuo, the Type 055 is not that expensive, it will be built in larger number than the Type 052D.



never taking those generals or experts, from TV, words seriously, most of them dont know lots of things```

the real deals are those who often popped up on defense forums irregularly, and gave vague infos about certain area of achievement, that you need to develop a special reading techniques in order to squeeze out fruitful juice out of them``

so there is no confirmed cost and how many 055 we gonna have```but based on the available figures, it is *not* going to be cheap as you imagined
--few hints: 1. a complete Type-730 CIWS costs* 180 million RMB,; *
2. Nanjing instidution quoted* AESA 346 for close to 1 Billion RMB per unit`` *when the boss asked, they pissed but the institution wont compromise quality for price, so at the end day the Navy accepted it!

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## rcrmj

Beast said:


> I too agree. 055 will be bloody expensive and its not going to build like 2 dozens of them. So why not try to pack as much fire power and usefulness to maximise those limited 055.



having more missiles doesnt equal to fire power, its 21st century not like the years of World Wars, where the seas were ruled by titans with massive tubes and 'ejaculating' at each other


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## longlong

rcrmj said:


> having more missiles doesnt equal to fire power, its 21st century not like the years of World Wars, where the seas were ruled by titans with massive tubes and 'ejaculating' at each other



Quantity always matters, anytime, anywhere.

The side has the system with proper balancing of quality and quantity will win.

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## Beidou2020

rcrmj said:


> having more missiles doesnt equal to fire power, its 21st century not like the years of World Wars, where the seas were ruled by titans with massive tubes and 'ejaculating' at each other



Quantity has a quality all its own - Joseph Stalin

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## Allah Akbar

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> When the port of Gwadar is ready, then you will have a lot of chance to see these ships patrolling around the Indian Ocean.


 i want them homeport in chittagong

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## jarves

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Just look at India, they were not ready to build an advanced DDG, now they chose to rush, then Kolkata is not even deployed after more than a decade of struggle.


Two Kolkata class ships will be inducted this year and the last one will be inducted next year.

Btw this project has been officially confirmed or this is all fanboy stuff??


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## rcrmj

Beidou2020 said:


> Quantity has a quality all its own - Joseph Stalin



and this 'quality' seems not working quite well in 21st century, hence PLA has thrown Soviet weapon system and ideology into garbage bin

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## rcrmj

longlong said:


> Quantity always matters, anytime, anywhere.
> 
> The side has the system* with proper balancing of quality and quantity will win*.



and yes indeed, but this equilibrium is hard for fanboys to understand

21st century is about intelligence, computer, precision and fast reaction, and thats why USAN tossed 500 VLS S21 project off into thin air, and now we have 80 tubes DDG1000, and thats why Soviet style was ditched by PLA's think tank



jarves said:


> Two Kolkata class ships will be inducted this year and the last one will be inducted next year.
> 
> Btw this project has been officially confirmed or this is all fanboy stuff??


055 project is real and progressed to production phase, nothing blurry about that, it is more potent than China buying Su-35 and S-400

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## chanikya

Beidou2020 said:


> Nope. Buddism came from present day Nepal.
> 
> Indians are majority Hindu. Hindu religion is a very incompetent religion which is why Indians are as backward and lazy as they are.


 
Dear Sir,

Off topic:

Please control your tongue when you are talking about our religion, its is the religion which stood more than 7000 years.

On topic:

Please discuss about only according to the title or the subject

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## cnleio

End of 2014 or Early of 2015, China shipbuilding industry will start to build the 055 DDG project, In China 055 class is real and we will see the 1st one 055 DDG soon.

All we can do, just waiting for new 12,000ton 055 DDG launch. 052C/D DDG is not enough for PLAN's future Aircraft Carrier Strick Groups, China Navy need many powerful 055 DDGs.

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## lcloo

055's displacement of 12,000 tons clearly indicate that it will be the primary escort ship for PLAN's future aircraft carriers. The large displacement will ensure long endurance in pace with the air craft carrier. And it will have larger room for more electronic gears and weapon to face all type of battle scenario - air defence, surface target engagement and underwater warfare.


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## cnleio

The 055 building lack this ...

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## cirr

《追梦人》—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看

Enjoy!



《追梦人》—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看

Enjoy!

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## cnleio



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## micky

cnleio said:


>


you guys are mad on ships man,,,,, any how much the project cost



chanikya said:


> Dear Sir,
> 
> Off topic:
> 
> Please control your tongue when you are talking about our religion, its is the religion which stood more than 7000 years.
> 
> On topic:
> 
> Please discuss about only according to the title or the subject


please leave him mate,,,,, its our fault we were never marketing our good things, its clearly our fault,, see the wester countries something useless they ll make it popular with marketing


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## cnleio

Come from 052D's VLS, support cold-launched and hot-launched missile. 112x also will install on 055 DDG.

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## Pangu

cnleio said:


> Come from 052D's VLS, support cold-launched and hot-launched missile. 112x also will install on 055 DDG.



Where is the exhaust vents for hot launch? Perhaps it's integrated in each individual silo?


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## cnleio

xudeen said:


> Where is the exhaust vents for hot launch? Perhaps it's integrated in each individual silo?


Like American latest* MK57 VLS*, the missile box is cylinder, VLS silo is square and bigger than missile box . The exhaust vent is just the space between missile box and VLS silo, we called it *Concentric Circle VLS.*











The missile box is cylinder, smaller than VLS silo. The exhaust vent inside each individual silo.














China Navy universial VLS regulation, one VLS silo can install 4x missiles at most (4x missile boxes), and control 4x different missiles.

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## cnleio

micky said:


> you guys are mad on ships man,,,,, any how much the project cost


052D DDG cost 0.9 billion $, 055 should be about 1.0 billion. Last time i heared a officer in CCTV news said lower than 1.0billion $ ... Compared with current 052D, 055 has a new X-band AESA radar + more VLS + 4x QC280 gas turbines. The cost of 055 won't cheaper than 052D DDG.

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## cnleio



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## micky

cnleio said:


> 052D DDG cost 0.9 billion $, 055 should be about 1.0 billion. Last time i heared a officer in CCTV news said lower than 1.0billion $ ... Compared with current 052D, 055 has a new X-band AESA radar + more VLS + 4x QC280 gas turbines. The cost of 055 won't cheaper than 052D DDG.


thanks man


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## cnleio

052D's VLS

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## Kompromat

Cold launch?


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## cnleio

Aeronaut said:


> Cold launch?


Cold launch and Hot launch, China latest VLS for both.

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## GeHAC

Aeronaut said:


> Cold launch?


Hybrid,both hot and cold is available.Launch mode depends on what missile box you choose.Cylinder hot launch missile box has individual exhaust vent.So the silo is now the world largest for the purpose of storing the missle box but it's really flexible.

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## cirr



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## cnleio



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## cnleio

cirr said:


>


It's British style 055 DDG 


Type45 DDG


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## cnleio

The same building from American, to test AEGIS system

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## cnleio

055 DDG

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## cirr

VLS：112 cells
Standard displacement：12800 tonne
1st batch：8

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> VLS：112 cells
> Standard displacement：12800 tonne
> 1st batch：8


When to build ? Which shipyard ? When 1st join PLAN ?

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## Brainsucker

Well, it's still on test and formulating the combat system phase I guess. Then 055 won't be around until China satisfied with this experimenting.


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## Indus Falcon

cirr said:


> VLS：112 cells
> Standard displacement：12800 tonne
> 1st batch：8


Any more details.............?


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## cirr

cnleio said:


> When to build ? Which shipyard ? When 1st join PLAN ?



In 6-9 months. JNS. 2017.

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## GeHAC

cirr said:


> VLS：112 cells
> Standard displacement：12800 tonne
> 1st batch：8



Hope it‘s true.

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## Mao1949

cirr said:


> VLS：112 cells
> Standard displacement：12800 tonne
> 1st batch：8



Why 112 cells and not 128 cells?

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## GeHAC

Mao1949 said:


> Why 112 cells and not 128 cells?


48+64 Our CCL silo is much larger than Mk41.112 is enough

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## RAMPAGE

cirr said:


>


WOW !!!!!! 

I want complete specs !!!!!


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## steelseries779

cirr said:


> VLS：112 cells
> Standard displacement：12800 tonne
> 1st batch：8



can't believe it's 8 for the first batch, so many

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## cnleio

steelseries779 said:


> can't believe it's 8 for the first batch, so many


Only 8billion $ for China, not expensive.

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## Akasa

cirr said:


>



And when will the initial unit be put into the water?


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## steelseries779

cnleio said:


> Only 8billion $ for China, not expensive.



True, our national defense budget is rising, no worry. So the next batch 055 would be full electric propulsion?

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## steelseries779



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## cirr

steelseries779 said:


> can't believe it's 8 for the first batch, so many



Using mostly mature technology and you know China's shipbuilding capacity.

055 is a large and versatile platform. We are sure to see variants(055A, B) with more futuristic weapons such as railgun, laser weapons and new types of missiles for land attack, air-defence, space defence etc

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## cnleio

The latest imagination pic of Type055 DDG. The estimated tonnage is about 12,800 tons.

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## cnleio

12,000ton 055 DDG
Front 32x VLS, Back 64x VLS
4x QC280 gas turbines
First batch of 8x 055 DDGs.
Start building at the end of 2014.

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## j20blackdragon

Look closely and you can see the FL-3000N launcher to the aft of the ship.


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## english_man

cnleio said:


> 12,000ton 055 DDG
> Front 32x VLS, Back 64x VLS
> 4x QC280 gas turbines
> First batch of 8x 055 DDGs.
> Start building at the end of 2014.


I've seen this picture posted a couple of times, but its only now when you look closer that you can see what appears to be a modified CIWS system, in front of the bridge superstructure, though it appears, to be on a same level, as the main gun! I presume this vessel will be built at JN shipyard, and as a naval enthusiast look forward to seeing production soon! 

ps: I like the tree camourflage scheme of the 055........

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## cnleio

New 3D surveillance radar.READY!

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## j20blackdragon



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## CiciHoriOzK

$8 billion for China is NOT expensive??


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## cnleio

CiciHoriOzK said:


> $8 billion for China is NOT expensive??


Why do u think China can not afford 8billion within next few years ?

Wiki: List of countries by military expenditures


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## he-man

Seriously 8 billion$ for china is just a pocket money dude


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## cirr

cnleio said:


> New 3D surveillance radar.READY!



NO。This is NOT the radar you are after。

The radar that will go on 055 is being developed at a Beijing-based unit。

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## cirr



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## cnleio

cirr said:


> NO。This is NOT the radar you are after。
> 
> The radar that will go on 055 is being developed at a Beijing-based unit。


Whatever, still a new radar for the Navy.


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## cnleio




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## cnleio




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## cirr

*China’s Mega Warship Plans Become Clearer With New Photos*

By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer

Posted 07.23.2014 at 4:44 pm





*Type 055 Cruiser Test Rig *The 055 cruiser test bed is a step closer to completion, as seen in the portside (left) view. The main cannon, CIWS and FL-3000 missile launcher have all been installed, and the helicopter hangar is complete. _lt.cdjby.net_

Five months after the first pictures surfaced in February 2014, the Type 055 cruiser testing rig at Wuhan has taken significant steps towards completion. The advantages of a land based test rig allow Chinese naval engineers to make cheaper adjustments and modifications to the electronics, compared to rebuilding an expensive cruiser on sea trials. Once launched, the Type 055 cruiser will be among the world's most powerful surface combatant warships, giving the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) a multipurpose warship useful for both blue water expeditionary warfare and anti-access/area denial missions.





*055 Test Rig, Front View *A closer view of the 055 test rig shows that the sensor and communications array panels on the integrated mast remain empty, while the H/PJ-38 turret and Type 1130 CIWS are almost certainly mockups meant to simulate radar returns, given the lack of loading and turning mechanisms beneath the deck. _buffomp via lt.cjdby.net_





*055 Test Rig's Integrated Mast *The integrated mast of the 055 cruiser test rig, on top of the bridge, is still empty. The fact that the portside (left facing front) of the integrated mast lacks openings for sensors, compared to the front and side of the integrated mast, suggests that port side sensors may have been deleted from the test rig as a cost saving measure (generally, one only needs sensors from two sides of a warship to simulate interaction among its electronic equipment). _spiderman via lt.cjdby.net_

While much scaffolding remains, the photos show recent additions include a 130mm H/PJ-38 cannon turret (or a mockup, given the current lack of ammo loading machinery beneath the deck) at the bow. One Type 1130 close in weapons system (CIWS) is located in front the of the bridge superstructure on a platform behind the PJ-38 main gun (the space between the PJ-38 and Type 1130 CIWS would hold 64-72 vertical launch system (VLS) cells). The Type 1130 can fire around 10,000 rounds of two pound shells to intercept missiles flying at Mach 4. To round out the Type 055's defense armament, a HQ-10 air defense launched has been installed in the rear above the helicopter hangar. The gap forward of the hangar and behind the exhaust stacks could hold an additional 48-64 VLS cells.





*Type 1130 CIWS *The eleven barreled Type 1130 CIWS is located on the raised platform forward of the bridge, and behind the H/PJ-38 turret. This Gatling cannon is one of the fastest guns in the world, firing up to 10,000-11,000 rounds per minutes to destroy high supersonic (Mach 4) missiles. _spiderman via lt.cjdby.net_





*055 Hangar Close Up *The Type 055's hangar is a new addition compared to earlier pictures from March. It will house an array of helicopters like the Ka-28, Z-9 and Z-20, as well as future Chinese vertical takeoff UAVs. _lt.cdjby.net_

The integrated mast and the rest of the test rig have received a coat of standard PLAN grey paint. However, the empty gaps in the stealthy integrated mast show that various fire control radars and communication arrays remain to be installed. Meanwhile, the stern of the mockup has seen the completion of its helicopter/UAV hangar, which will primarily be used in anti-submarine warfare operations.





*March 2014 055 Test Rig *This photo from March 2014 shows the 055 Cruiser test rig without radars or weapons mockups. The large opening under the bridge is for the massive Type 346 series AESA radar. It is unlikely that the 055 test rig currently has the Type 346 installed, seeing that the integrated mast as of July 23, 2014, is still missing its sensor arrays. _whut&ccnu.team_

However, the most important part of the Type 055 mockup has yet to come in the form of radar and other electronic equipment installation. The photos show that the front portside (left) Type 346 radar has not been installed yet beneath the bridge (allowing the possibility, though, that the starboard side radars has already been installed). Given the lack of radar portside openings on the mockup, it appears that sensors, especially radars, will only be installed on the starboardside and front of the test rig (generally, only two sides need functional electronics to test out sensor performance and interaction on a warship). Installing the electronics of the Type 055 will be crucial to establishing baselines to understand interactions between electromagnetic activity from the sensors, electronic countermeasure (ECM)defenses and communications gear. Judging from the rate of progress in the past several months, it would be reasonable to assume that all sensors, ECM, and communications will be installed by fall this year, allowing the PLAN to immediately start using the test rig. At this pace, we should expect the first 055 hull to begin construction in the 2015-2016 timeframe.

http://www.popsci.com/blog-network/...-warship-plans-become-clearer-with-new-photos

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## j20blackdragon



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## cirr

The following is said to be the civilian version of what will go into the engine room of Type 055 DDG：

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## english_man

cirr said:


> The following is said to be the civilian version of what will go into the engine room of Type 055 DDG：



'Cirr'..............please can you translate into English, exactly what the boards are describing about the engine........thanks

ps:- i understand the 30MW bit

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## cirr

english_man said:


> 'Cirr'..............please can you translate into English, exactly what the boards are describing about the engine........thanks
> 
> ps:- i understand the 30MW bit



"description" not of a technical nature.

Just naming of the maker of the engine and slogans urging people to work harder for higher goals.


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## 帅的一匹

When will 055DDG put into production ,any one could shed some light on this?


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## Genesis

wanglaokan said:


> When will 055DDG put into production ,any one could shed some light on this?



I heard 2015 or 2016, we'll probably have 5 or 6 by 2020 more or less.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Genesis said:


> I heard 2015 or 2016, we'll probably have 5 or 6 by 2020 more or less.



Beautiful. Imagine having 6 of these monsters in our Navy.

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> The following is said to be the civilian version of what will go into the engine room of Type 055 DDG：


It's the QC280 gas turbine ?


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## cnleio

055 DDG CG

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## cnleio



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## cirr



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## sweetgrape

Awsome CG

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## 55100864

I like this design

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## cnleio



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## Speeder 2

sweetgrape said:


> Awsome CG



where to put rail gun and laser weapons then?


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## english_man

In the photos above, there are 4 poles on the rear hanger deckhouse in a line, and one pole amidships................can anyone speculate to as what type of antennas these are?........or are they something else?

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## cnleio

Speeder 2 said:


> where to put rail gun and laser weapons then?


Does West media say China 055 will install rail gun & laser weapons ?
I think next years 055 building won't have them, right now PLAN no such plan.

There's no any leaked idea about China rail gun & laser gun development yet.



english_man said:


> In the photos above, there are 4 poles on the rear hanger deckhouse in a line, and one pole amidships................can anyone speculate to as what type of antennas these are?........or are they something else?



Usually it's PLAN Fleet communication antenna






From Top to Bottom:
1. PLAN Data Link antenna
2. Electromagnetic detection warning device
3. Meteorological radar
4. Helicopter communication antenna
5. Electronic countermeasures antenna
6. X-band MFR radar
7. Laser warning device
8. EHF receiving antenna

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## AgentOrange

cnleio said:


>



She's a pretty lady.


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## Aepsilons

Impressive


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## Beidou2020

China need to build this as quickly as possible and deploy it in great numbers.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

TREMENDOUS fire power and authority it would certainly be crown jewel in Chinese Navy






Just wow , what fire power !!! and two of these massive Missile Launching contraptions


Beautiful Design and Vision by Chinese on this one congrats

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## Sasquatch

Type 055 construction will start soon.

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## BDforever

Hu Songshan said:


> Type 055 construction will start soon.


u have funny and cool avatar

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## 帅的一匹

Hu Songshan said:


> Type 055 construction will start soon.


How many of it?

I see it put in service before year 2018?

I think when 055 put in service, no one could bully CHina in the high sea anymore, as long as with the newly built carrier.

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## cnleio

Hu Songshan said:


> Type 055 construction will start soon.


Where ? Pics ? 

@Hu Songshan I suggest when China 055-class DDG building pic out, pls stick this thread like 
*Type 052D DDG News & Discussions. *Thank you very much !

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## cnleio

@Hu Songshan

Is this u said, The Commencement Ceremony of 055-class DDG building ?

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## he-man

Moaaarrrrrrr pics


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## cnleio

he-man said:


> Moaaarrrrrrr pics


We need patience here like 052D, i think we will see the 055 shipbody until 2015. 3 or 4, then more pics.

Right now China is building 055's fragments inside shipyard. Anyway i believe China start building 055 BEAST now.

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## GoGetIt

cnleio said:


> @Hu Songshan
> 
> Is this u said, The Commencement Ceremony of 055-class DDG building ?
> View attachment 179563


Good!Let's boil dumplings!

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## rcrmj

here is the link
提示信息 - 超级大本营军事论坛 -
ZT CD 055 1#开工了 - 海军论坛 - 鼎盛论坛 -




it reads: 055 destroyer No.1 construction start ceremony

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## he-man

Where is 12000 tonnes written??


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## rcrmj

within few month we'd hv more pics```



he-man said:


> Where is 12000 tonnes written??


no, it doesnt hv 12,000 written on it, but 055 is to be considered to have 12,000 normal displacement, and its full load will be close to 13,000 tons

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## he-man

rcrmj said:


> no, it doesnt hv 12,000 written on it, but 055 is to be considered to have 12,000 normal displacement, and its full load will be close to 13,000 tons


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## cirr

The ceremony was held on last Saturday。

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## Superboy

Only 12,000? I think 14,000 or 15,000.

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## GoGetIt

Superboy said:


> Only 12,000? I think 14,000 or 15,000.


I hope too,but full load will be 12000~13000.

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## damiendehorn

Congrats to China, you always seem to exceed expectations.

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## english_man

This is fantastic news........and I was sort of expecting this.
The Chinese members here must be excited and very proud, of this news...............because this is going to be one hell of a fighting warship, and the fact that I have called it the 'Beast' in the past seems very appropriate!

I wonder if this vessel will be built in the hallway at JN shipyard next to the hallway where the current construction of the 052D is taking place.
Also, it will be interesting to see if the first 055 is built, in what we would expect a normal timescale for this vessel to be, or whether the construction of the vessel is fast tracked, as was the case of the first 052D no '172'.

I remember even just a year ago, that American military sites were saying that the Chinese 055 Cruiser was just a Chinese dream...........well with the mock-up at Wuhan, and now this steel cutting ceremony of the 055 at JN shipyard........it looks like the Chinese have got the last laugh.

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## terranMarine

yahoooooooooooooooooooooo
i was expecting next year, but this is great news.


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## cnleio

he-man said:


> Where is 12000 tonnes written??


un-official information.

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## english_man

We now seem to have 2 threads on the 055 Warship................please could the administrators here move the posts from the newly created thread into this thread........thanks!


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## he-man

cnleio said:


> un-official information.



Nice........


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## Echo_419

rcrmj said:


> within few month we'd hv more pics```
> 
> 
> no, it doesnt hv 12,000 written on it, but 055 is to be considered to have 12,000 normal displacement, and its full load will be close to 13,000 tons



Nice man

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## Rajaraja Chola

12000 tonnes is huge.. Congrats..

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## cnleio

english_man said:


> This is fantastic news........and I was sort of expecting this.
> The Chinese members here must be excited and very proud, of this news...............because this is going to be one hell of a fighting warship, and the fact that I have called it the 'Beast' in the past seems very appropriate!
> 
> I wonder if this vessel will be built in the hallway at JN shipyard next to the hallway where the current construction of the 052D is taking place.
> Also, it will be interesting to see if the first 055 is built, in what we would expect a normal timescale for this vessel to be, or whether the construction of the vessel is fast tracked, as was the case of the first 052D no '172'.
> 
> I remember even just a year ago, that American military sites were saying that the Chinese 055 Cruiser was just a Chinese dream...........well with the mock-up at Wuhan, and now this steel cutting ceremony of the 055 at JN shipyard........it looks like the Chinese have got the last laugh.


LOL ... West media laugh Chinese dream, even 'cheaper' China FN-6 MANPADS can shoot down 'expensive' F-16 in Iraqi . I think right now American will change attitudes to Chinese weapons , the ISIS provided the shooting F-16 video on internet, i just saw it.

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## UKBengali

The construction of a monster ship like this can only mean that China has a long-term aim to challenge the US Navy.

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## Oldman1

cnleio said:


> LOL ... West media laugh Chinese dream, even 'cheaper' China FN-6 MANPADS can shoot down 'expensive' F-16 in Iraqi . I think right now American will change attitudes to Chinese weapons , the ISIS provided the shooting F-16 video on internet, i just saw it.



You believe that crap? Old footage.



UKBengali said:


> The construction of a monster ship like this can only mean that China has a long-term aim to challenge the US Navy.



If they want to challenge the U.S. Navy, they are going to need an even bigger destroyer.

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## war is peace

Lol oldman why bigger they are not doing race wit us


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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> You believe that crap? Old footage.
> 
> 
> 
> If they want to challenge the U.S. Navy, they are going to need an even bigger destroyer.



The Type 055A will be bigger than the Type 055.

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## chauvunist

Godspeed China..

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## ChineseTiger1986



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## Sasquatch

cnleio said:


> @Hu Songshan
> 
> Is this u said, The Commencement Ceremony of 055-class DDG building ?
> View attachment 179563



Yes.

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## AgentOrange

Superboy said:


> Only 12,000? *I think 14,000 or 15,000.*



You think that based on what? All the people that have done mockup drawings based on the radar signature testbed have ended up with the 11000-12000 range. Where's your evidence?

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## ChineseTiger1986

AgentOrange said:


> You think that based on what? All the people that have done mockup drawings based on the radar signature testbed have ended up with the 11000-12000 range. Where's your evidence?



The mockup is about 185 x 23, so probably something like 12000 tons standard or 13000-14000 tons full.


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## AMDR

Congratulations China!

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## english_man

Whats all this talk of tonnage of the 055 for?

We wont know exactly the displacement of the vessel, until its completed, and the ships full specification is then disclosed.

It's what the ship carries, electronic and armament wise that counts, and lets say that the ship has a 12,000 tonnes displacement, that is still one very big warship in the modern era for its class!....... Bigger than an American 'Arleigh Burke' Destroyer, or 'Ticonderoga' Cruiser' or S.Korea's 'King Sejong', and Japans 'Kongo' and 'Atago' classes .........and its only a little less than the US's 'Zumwalt', but only 3 are ever going to be made of that class.

Remember Chinese warships pack a very powerful punch for their size, i.e. the 056 Corvette at some 1,400 tonnes packs a far stronger punch than such vessels as the 'Littoral Combat Ship' which is over twice the displacement.

Anyway, if members here think that larger displacement means better...............then that accolade goes to Russia with its 4 'Kirov' class cruisers at over 28,000 tonnes full load. 

What counts, is that i'am sure that there will be more than a handful of 055 Cruisers built for the Chinese Navy, and together with the 052D Destroyers, these vessels will be able to provide an unmatched? very powerful defensive and offensive capability for a naval task force.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Only two Type 055 DDGs will be built for the experimental phase, and the mass production version will be the Type 055A.

BTW, the Type 055 is about 12000 tons standard, and it is likely that the Type 055A will get as big as the DDG-1000.

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## Zarvan

rcrmj said:


> here is the link
> 提示信息 - 超级大本营军事论坛 -
> ZT CD 055 1#开工了 - 海军论坛 - 鼎盛论坛 -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it reads: 055 destroyer No.1 construction start ceremony


Please post the pictures of models and How it will look like when completed ?


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## cnleio

Hu Songshan said:


> Yes.


Pls stick this 055 DDG Thread like that 052D building thread in 2012.


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## cirr

The unit cost is said to be rather acceptable，especially in view of the fact that comparable western ships are priced in billions of USDs。



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 055A will be bigger than the Type 055.



The GAD turned down the original design of a 18000-ton normal displacement ship。

Type 055 is merely a platform capable of future upgrades in systems，weapons etc。 

Work has indeed begun on the next iteration。

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## black-hawk_101

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> View attachment 179652
> 
> View attachment 179653
> 
> View attachment 179654
> View attachment 179655


Why not Algeria cancel the order for Frigate and order this about 7-8 of these under license.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

black-hawk_101 said:


> Why not Algeria cancel the order for Frigate and order this about 7-8 of these under license.



Too expensive, and too much resources and manpower for many countries to maintain and to operate these monsters.

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## AgentOrange

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Too expensive, and too much resources and manpower for many countries to maintain and to operate these monsters.



Exactly. In a similar vein, there's a reason why not a lot of countries operate submarines even though they're the ultimate asymmetrical weapon. Most countries simply lack the infrastructure to support warships more complex than something for coastal patrols.

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## Pangu

I'm more concern about it's power plant/propulsion. Any idea about it's configuration?


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## ChineseTiger1986

AgentOrange said:


> Exactly. In a similar vein, there's a reason why not a lot of countries operate submarines even though they're the ultimate asymmetrical weapon. Most countries simply lack the infrastructure to support warships more complex than something for coastal patrols.



In regard of the boomer, China values it even higher than the aircraft carrier.

China has not yet made a noise about the boomer.

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## rcrmj

black-hawk_101 said:


> Why not Algeria cancel the order for Frigate and order this about 7-8 of these under license.


one ship's production costs as much as $1billion, so its wont be necessary


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## Genesis

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Only two Type 055 DDGs will be built for the experimental phase, and the mass production version will be the Type 055A.
> 
> BTW, the Type 055 is about 12000 tons standard, and it is likely that the Type 055A will get as big as the DDG-1000.



make sense, though building 10 of them or 6 like 52C would still be good. Probably not 2 though, that's a waste of effort and money as well as time on designing the ship.

China does build a few and move on to the next phase in an effort to catch the US, if and when we match or exceed the Zumwalt, we will be set for naval operations for the next 20 years at least, as the US won't build something far better than that for at least that long.

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## Sasquatch

cnleio said:


> Pls stick this 055 DDG Thread like that 052D building thread in 2012.



Done.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Genesis said:


> make sense, though building 10 of them or 6 like 52C would still be good. Probably not 2 though, that's a waste of effort and money as well as time on designing the ship.
> 
> China does build a few and move on to the next phase in an effort to catch the US, if and when we match or exceed the Zumwalt, we will be set for naval operations for the next 20 years at least, as the US won't build something far better than that for at least that long.



I am pretty that the Type 055 series will have much larger number than the Type 052 series, considering that we will build more than 20 Type 052 series DDGs at least.

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## black-hawk_101

rcrmj said:


> one ship's production costs as much as $1billion, so its wont be necessary


Then why not Algeria go for license production of Russian Corvette and FAC which has VLS Missiles about 15 of each???


----------



## 帅的一匹

疑中国万吨055隐身舰开工 助航母远洋战-20141230凤凰视频-凤凰视频-最具媒体品质的综合视频门户-凤凰网

What if China has 20 of this beast in the coming 10 years, together with 15 units of 052D and 6 units of 052C DDG. Can i call the PLA navy the most powerful navy in this region?

Not to mention the 22 units of 054A and the coming 057 frigartes, as long as with 50 plus of 056/056A covette

No one can challenge CHina in the east sea and South CHina sea.



black-hawk_101 said:


> Then why not Algeria go for license production of Russian Corvette and FAC which has VLS Missiles about 15 of each???


My advice is that PN shall go for 054A

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## Malik Alashter

black-hawk_101 said:


> Then why not Algeria go for license production of Russian Corvette and FAC which has VLS Missiles about 15 of each???


Well the Algerian bought two MEKO-200 for 2.7 BILLION $ I still can't believe it.


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## 帅的一匹

Malik Alashter said:


> Well the Algerian bought two MEKO-200 for 2.7 BILLION $ I still can't believe it.


052D with cheaper price can beat the shit out of MEKO-200, Algerian is crazy.

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## yusheng

bridge Electromagnetic testing model

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## Malik Alashter

wanglaokan said:


> 052D with cheaper price can beat the shit out of MEKO-200, Algerian is crazy.


If to was up to me I would go with the O52D a lot better as you said it is bigger and carry more weapons but that's the Arab.

But what is the cost of the O52D


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## rcrmj

Malik Alashter said:


> If to was up to me I would go with the O52D a lot better as you said it is bigger and carry more weapons but that's the Arab.
> 
> But what is the cost of the O52D


around $550 million per unit (production cost),


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## rcrmj

I believe this is the closest drawn-up we have, there is no official photos apart from the mock-ups in Wuhan

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## ChineseTiger1986

Malik Alashter said:


> If to was up to me I would go with the O52D a lot better as you said it is bigger and carry more weapons but that's the Arab.
> 
> But what is the cost of the O52D



The best selling points for the Type 052D is its four panels AESA radar and versatile VLS.

This makes its more advanced than the Arleigh Burke Flight IIA, but the only disadvantage is its tonnage.

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## black-hawk_101

What is the cost of Type 052D?


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## ChineseTiger1986

black-hawk_101 said:


> What is the cost of Type 052D?



Around $550 million per unit, @rcrmj has mentioned it above.

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## black-hawk_101

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Around $550 million per unit, @rcrmj has mentioned it above.


then for 7 of these with local license production it will cost $550millionx7=$3850 million = $3.850 Billions which makes around $4 Billions along with training and support.

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## ChineseTiger1986

black-hawk_101 said:


> then for 7 of these with local license production it will cost $550millionx7=$3850 million = $3.850 Billions which makes around $4 Billions along with training and support.



Sure, China could sell a such high quality product like hotcake.

But I think it will not be started until 2016, since right now we need to fulfill the need of PLAN first.

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## black-hawk_101

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Sure, China could sell a such high quality product like hotcake.
> 
> But I think it will not be started until 2016, since right now we need to fulfill the need of PLAN first.


What about License production....


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## ChineseTiger1986

black-hawk_101 said:


> What about License production....



Only for those nations who have some degree of shipbuilding capability.

For example, even the countries like Japan and South Korea need the license production for the Arleigh Burke class DDG.

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## UKBengali

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Around $550 million per unit, @rcrmj has mentioned it above.



Wow - only 550 million dollar a unit?!

BD should put in a order for 2 immediately.

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## Sasquatch

Type 055 need be built in double digit numbers, it along with Type 1A-3 carriers and LHD are top priority for the PLAN.

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## rcrmj

UKBengali said:


> Wow - only 550 million dollar a unit?!
> 
> BD should put in a order for 2 immediately.



It is expensive, $550M is the construction costs, the life-time costs for training and maintaining are many times than that``you have to take these factors into consideration

But I reckon 054A is good for BD, its reliability, efficiency and all-round capability is the best in South Asia

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## 帅的一匹

One of the most advanced DDG in the world, it gives Chinese navy the ability to operate against its potential rival on the high sea.

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## waja2000

Malik Alashter said:


> Well the Algerian bought two MEKO-200 for 2.7 BILLION $ I still can't believe it.


it include TOT and construction if new shipyard in Algeria for maintenance of ship and also contraction own ship via TOT. possible price include 2 unit Meko built in Algeria.


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## cnleio

HAPPY 2015 NEW YEAR ! China Navy warmly welcome 055 DDG !

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## war is peace

cnleio said:


> HAPPY 2015 NEW YEAR ! China Navy warmly welcome 055 DDG !


new year in advance.


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## StarCraft_ZT

Excellent news, what's the difference between 055 and 055A?

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## xuxu1457

black-hawk_101 said:


> What is the cost of Type 052D?


3.5billion YUAN， 0.57billion $


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## CiciHoriOzK

mado yu said:


> does anyone have the picture of the experimental platform on land for 054b



Is this recent photo? for pilot training?


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## Deino

CiciHoriOzK said:


> Is this recent photo? for pilot training?



No that's only the test site from the naval institute (do not know the exact designation right now; sorry) located at Wuhan.


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## CiciHoriOzK

thx!

are they planning on building any more carriers?


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## GeHAC

xuxu1457 said:


> 3.5billion YUAN， 0.57billion $


It won't be that cheap.

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## 帅的一匹

GeHAC said:


> It won't be that cheap.


At least 8 to 10 billion USD per


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## ChineseTiger1986

StarCraft_ZT said:


> Excellent news, what's the difference between 055 and 055A?



The Type 055A is the improved model of the Type 055.

Maybe it can have more mature technology, also with larger tonnage such as 15000 tons full load and 128 VLS cells?



wanglaokan said:


> At least 8 to 10 billion USD per



I think you mean 0.8 to 1 billion USD per unit?

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## xuxu1457

GeHAC said:


> It won't be that cheap.


中国将军公开解放军052D舰造价：1吨50万左右-搜狐军事频道
“现在的造价一吨在50万左右” Construction costs of the ship is 0.5million Yuan per ton, 052D about 7000tons, 3.5billion Yuan


wanglaokan said:


> At least 8 to 10 billion USD per


Impossible，DDG1000 is 4billion $, new Arleigh Burke class destroyer is 1.8billion $

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## 帅的一匹

xuxu1457 said:


> 中国将军公开解放军052D舰造价：1吨50万左右-搜狐军事频道
> “现在的造价一吨在50万左右” Construction costs of the ship is 0.5million Yuan per ton, 052D about 7000tons, 3.5billion Yuan
> 
> Impossible，DDG1000 is 4billion $, new Arleigh Burke class destroyer is 1.8billion $


3.5 bilion Yuan is only for the ship itself, you should including the weapon system/traning/missiles.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 055A is the improved model of the Type 055.
> 
> Maybe it can have more mature technology, also with larger tonnage such as 15000 tons full load and 128 VLS cells?
> 
> 
> 
> I think you mean 0.8 to 1 billion USD per unit?


Excuse me typo, yeh, 0.8 billions USD at least including missiles and training.


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## Major Shaitan Singh



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## bolo

GeHAC said:


> It won't be that cheap.


Yup. That price is for pla. If they sell it, there will be markup.


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## AgentOrange

black-hawk_101 said:


> What about License production....



I think Pakistan has the ability to produce warships (Pakistan can produce sophisticated jet fighters for example) but it's a matter of priorities. License production requires setting up the infrastructure and training the workers needed to successfully do everything from installing the electronics down to proper weld techniques. 

Given Pakistan's security environment and threats, would that be a good use of Pakistan's budget? Or would money be better spent in further upgrading the PAF - a branch that's more likely to be utilized and tested in the case of hostilities with a certain neighbor? I don't know but that's surely something that Pakistani leaders are/have considered.

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## cnleio

@Hu Songshan Pls combine this thread into the stick 055 DDG discuss thread ... many repeated threads here.

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## cnleio

2015 waiting for the Beast out in China

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## CiciHoriOzK

is that a loading bay on the right side? or generators?

the building looks like for training. doesn't look like shipyard.


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## ChineseTiger1986

CiciHoriOzK said:


> thx!
> 
> are they planning on building any more carriers?



They are planning to build two more carriers by 2020.

There is one already starting the construction.



CiciHoriOzK said:


> is that a loading bay on the right side? or generators?
> 
> the building looks like for training. doesn't look like shipyard.



These buildings are only the mockups to test the electromagnetic environment.

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## cnleio

CiciHoriOzK said:


> is that a loading bay on the right side? or generators?
> 
> the building looks like for training. doesn't look like shipyard.


It's not in JN shipyard, a 1:1 055 mockup for building preparation. If u read whole this thread, the building built one year ago. The 1st 055 DDG shipbody will out in 2015, 2014.12 start building in JN shipyard, here we didn't have shipyard pic yet.

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## StarCraft_ZT

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 055A is the improved model of the Type 055.
> 
> Maybe it can have more mature technology, also with larger tonnage such as 15000 tons full load and 128 VLS cells?



Yes, China should have more big tonnage warship to fulfil "blue ocean" task.

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## ChineseTiger1986

StarCraft_ZT said:


> Yes, China should have more big tonnage warship to fulfil "blue ocean" task.



Too bad that Zhengzhou was only naming after a Type 052C, not even a Type 052D.

Many cities will be very lucky to name after the mighty Type 055/055A.

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## StarCraft_ZT

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Too bad that Zhengzhou was only naming after a Type 052C, not even a Type 052D.
> 
> Many cities will be very lucky to name after the mighty Type 055/055A.



 Yes I know, 151, Zhengzhou. It's Okay, even Xi'an, vice-provincial city was named after 052C too. Maybe 055 will be given to China's first tier cities, Beijing Shanghai Guangzhou Shenzhen, if they are still avaliable now. After the 1st batch of 055 construction and the new AC completed, will the Chinese navy will catch up with Japan?

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## ChineseTiger1986

StarCraft_ZT said:


> Yes I know, 151, Zhengzhou. It's Okay, even Xi'an, vice-provincial city was named after 052C too. Maybe 055 will be given to China's first tier cities, Beijing Shanghai Guangzhou Shenzhen, if they are still avaliable now. After the 1st batch of 055 construction and the new AC completed, will the Chinese navy will catch up with Japan?



The JMDSF only plays a defensive role, and without the US support, they can't fight against the PLAN.

BTW, the first batch for the Type 055 will be two units, and the candidates are likely Nanjing and Chengdu.

But for now, there is a fierce battle between Nanjing and Chengdu to become the leadship of the Type 055 class.

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## cnleio

a 055 CG

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## cnleio

In WuHan











055 model & CG

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## j20blackdragon

64 front + 48 back = 112 VLS cells.

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## AgentOrange

j20blackdragon said:


> 64 front + 48 back = 112 VLS cells.
> 
> View attachment 186929
> View attachment 186930



In that last picture, I don't see the actual 055's helipad being smaller than the one on the 052D. If anything, the 055 will be a bit larger than what's currently being portrayed.

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## Penguin

I'ld just as soon see 6+6 vlu's here (rather than 8 + 6) with all front ones lengthwise and all read ones crosswise. (2x48=96 cells > 16 land attack, 16 antiship, 16 ASW and the remaining 48 SAM). I'm assuming these willo serve as flagships and will have command facilities. All that need also to be accommodated (so size/space wouldn't solely be for weapons carriage)


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## cnleio

055-class DDG-177 (CG)

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## sinaloa

cnleio said:


> 055-class DDG-177 (CG)
> 
> 
> View attachment 202294


it strikes me with an awfully high crediablity, 
because it's full of rough edges and carries a rustic charm which you can experience from many Chinese military hardware.

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## cnleio

055 new model

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## Deino

A new image ...

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## munchkin

Deino said:


> A new image ...
> 
> View attachment 216936




It's under construction?


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## Deino

munchkin said:


> It's under construction?




No this is "only" a test-stand of mock up to test the different electronics together at Wuhan.

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## cnleio

055-class and 052-class

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## 21stCentury

cnleio said:


> 055-class and 052-class
> View attachment 217909



This 12,000-13,000+ ton beast will be a true monster when it is released into the seas. When is the completion date again? I'm too lazy to dig around for the information right now.


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## cnleio

21stCentury said:


> This 12,000-13,000+ ton beast will be a true monster when it is released into the seas. When is the completion date again? I'm too lazy to dig around for the information right now.


It will be the largest DDG China built and the most VLS units on single ship (112x) ... maybe 2017 or 2018 out

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## monitor

It may cost around ~1.5 billion dollar if consider a Indian analyst estimate of per ton cost ~$100000 varies Chinese warship construction cost .


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## hk299792458

The very first order of *Type 055* is 4 ships.

Henri K.

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## cnleio

2016 to see China new 11,000+ ton Type055 DDG with 112 VLS cells (8x8 + 6x8) out ... here building get started, everything going fine.

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## Economic superpower

112 VLS?

I thought it would be around 128 VLS.

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## S10

Economic superpower said:


> 112 VLS?
> 
> I thought it would be around 128 VLS.


No, 112 is generally thought to be the correct number of VLS. Remember we have an improved HQ-16A and new generation of medium range same that can fit 4 missiles into a single VLS cell. The new missile, rumored to be HQ-26, would have approximately 70km range with maximum speed of Mach 2.5.

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## hk299792458

HQ-16A and HQ-16B are both land-based version. If you talk about the sea-based one it should be HQ-16 (AJK-16) and HQ-16G.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Economic superpower said:


> 112 VLS?
> 
> I thought it would be around 128 VLS.



For 128 VLS, just wait for the Type 055A, since there will only have eight Type 055 being built eventually.

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## Blue Marlin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> For 128 VLS, just wait for the Type 055A, since there will only have eight Type 055 being built eventually.


so if the type 55 were to carry 128 missiles it would be bigger than the US arliegh burke destroyers which on average carry 96 missiles and be more to the size of the sejong the great class destroyer which too carry 128 missiles 
so its physical characteristics would be close this: Displacement: 8,500 tons standard displacement 11,000 tons full load, Length: 165 m, Beam: 21.4 m, Draft: 6.25 m,

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## Beast

blue marlin said:


> so if the type 55 were to carry 128 missiles it would be bigger than the US arliegh burke destroyers which on average carry 96 missiles and be more to the size of the sejong the great class destroyer which too carry 128 missiles
> so its physical characteristics would be close this: Displacement: 8,500 tons standard displacement 11,000 tons full load, Length: 165 m, Beam: 21.4 m, Draft: 6.25 m,
> 
> View attachment 252210


Chinese vertical launch silo dimension is much bigger than MK41. You cannot compare in that way.

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## Blue Marlin

Beast said:


> Chinese vertical launch silo dimension is much bigger than MK41. You cannot compare in that way.


so the dimensions of the ship would be bigger.


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## Beast

blue marlin said:


> so the dimensions of the ship would be bigger.


People will assume Chinese destroyer despite much bigger carries less silo than peer USN ship consider inferior or bad design. But Chinese designer has in mind giving bigger dimension of per silo for more room for upgrade and less restriction in terms of design and operation.

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## Blue Marlin

Beast said:


> People will assume Chinese destroyer despite much bigger carries less silo than peer USN ship consider inferior or bad design. But Chinese designer has in mind giving bigger dimension of per silo for more room for upgrade and less restriction in terms of design and operation.


thats an idea that is used quiet commonly. the mk41 can store the tomahawk and a sm-6 also.


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## Beast

blue marlin said:


> thats an idea that is used quiet commonly. the mk41 can store the tomahawk and a sm-6 also.


So as Chinese silo. CJ-10 cruise missile, HQ-9 SAM, HQ-16G, YJ-12 or YJ-18 and ASROC.

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## ChineseTiger1986

blue marlin said:


> so if the type 55 were to carry 128 missiles it would be bigger than the US arliegh burke destroyers which on average carry 96 missiles and be more to the size of the sejong the great class destroyer which too carry 128 missiles
> so its physical characteristics would be close this: Displacement: 8,500 tons standard displacement 11,000 tons full load, Length: 165 m, Beam: 21.4 m, Draft: 6.25 m,
> 
> View attachment 252210



The versatile VLS used by both Type 052D and Type 055 are larger and more advanced than the MK-41, it is technologically comparable to the coming MK-57, but still bigger than the MK-57 in term of dimension.

Just look how many cells the future USN warships will have when they are using the larger MK-57.

DDG-1000: 80 VLS cells
ABIII: 96 VLS cells

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## Blue Marlin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The versatile VLS used by both Type 052D and Type 055 are larger and more advanced than the MK-41, it is technologically comparable to the coming MK-57, but still bigger than the MK-57 in term of dimension.
> 
> Just look how many cells the future USN warships have when they are using the MK-57.
> 
> DDG-1000: 80 VLS cells
> ABIII: 96 VLS cells


are your vls cold start or hot launch? the mk-57 is module that can facilitate any missile in the usn arsenal including the upcoming lrasm.

also if your vls is better than the mk-41 then why is it bigger than the mk-57, yes i know your vls is for a lot of missiles some of them being large but so does the mk-57?



Beast said:


> People will assume Chinese destroyer despite much bigger carries less silo than peer USN ship consider inferior or bad design. But Chinese designer has in mind giving bigger dimension of per silo for more room for upgrade and less restriction in terms of design and operation.


yes i do know china has vls cruise missiles, thanks for reminding me

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## ChineseTiger1986

blue marlin said:


> are your vls cold start or hot launch? the mk-57 is module that can facilitate any missile in the usn arsenal including the upcoming lrasm.
> 
> also if your vls is better than the mk-41 then why is it bigger than the mk-57, yes i know your vls is for a lot of missiles some of them being large but so does the mk-57?



The Type 052D and the coming Type 055 can use for both hot launch and cold launch, it is universal.

The bigger cell will allow you to pack more miniaturized missiles inside.

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## Blue Marlin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 052D and the coming Type 055 can use for both hot launch and cold launch, it is universal.
> 
> The bigger cell will allow you to pack more miniaturized missiles inside.


just like the US sparrow have you got any miniaturised missiles in mind for use

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## Beast

blue marlin said:


> just like the US sparrow have you got any miniaturised missiles in mind for use


Bigger silo allow more room for improvement and less restriction on missile size.

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## cnleio

They (rumor on internet) say "This is the 055 (over 90% alike) ... what we can see "

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## Akasa

Rumored to be a part of the 055.

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## cnleio

SinoSoldier said:


> Rumored to be a part of the 055.
> 
> View attachment 265351


Where is it, in ShangHai JN or DaLian ?

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## lcloo

cnleio said:


> Where is it, in ShangHai JN or DaLian ?


 I think it is at Shanghai JNCX, notice the big white ship at the back ground? this could be CCG 3901. Also the railing at the fore ground, painted in white and red? JNCX has such railing painted in same colour.

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## cnleio

A map to show size of 055-class vs 052D-class DDG

China building a big warship

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## kurutoga

Blue Marlin said:


> just like the US sparrow have you got any miniaturised missiles in mind for use



In a tv program the commentators said 052D can house 4 small missiles per VLS cell (mid spec). And 055 large spec VLS cell can house up to 8 for a theoretical max missile count of 1024 (if the rumor of 128 cell is true)

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## 21stCentury

I know the type 55 will be succeeded by the type 55a, but are there designs yet for more advanced future destroyers/cruisers? Or is the type 55a "it"?

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## applesauce

21stCentury said:


> I know the type 55 will be succeeded by the type 55a, but are there designs yet for more advanced future destroyers/cruisers? Or is the type 55a "it"?



research does not stop simply because you finished one project.

obviously they are looking at future ships as well, you build one design(current), have another on paper(next gen), and a third in research(future design)

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## 果壳军事

Information we have:

One sub-block was caught, but it is now on another berth than we expected --






(The image above was made 2 months ago.)

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## 星海军事



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## Pandemonium

Hi , when will we see the first type 55 in service ? And has any ship been launched yet ? And also what is the estimated displacement of the type 55 ships ?


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## cirr

Pandemonium said:


> Hi , when will we see the first type 55 in service ? And has any ship been launched yet ? And also what is the estimated displacement of the type 55 ships ?



Launch later this year，commission in 2017.

Notice the short interval between launch and commissioning due to advances in bla bla。。。。。。

Normal displacement just short of 12000 tons。

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> Launch later this year，commission in 2017.
> 
> Notice the short interval between launch and commissioning due to advances in bla bla。。。。。。
> 
> Normal displacement just short of 12000 tons。



How sure are you that launch will occur this year? The vessel looks to be in nascent stages.


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## Pandemonium

cirr said:


> Launch later this year，commission in 2017.
> 
> Notice the short interval between launch and commissioning due to advances in bla bla。。。。。。
> 
> Normal displacement just short of 12000 tons。


Wow . So these ships are more like cruisers than destroyers. 
Thanks


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## monitor

Pandemonium said:


> Hi , when will we see the first type 55 in service ? And has any ship been launched yet ? And also what is the estimated displacement of the type 55 ships ?


10000 Ton, 13000Ton fully loaded.


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## cnleio

China type055 DDG start building

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## monitor



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## 帅的一匹

We shall at least build 20 of this baby to get advantage in SCS. Make sure we have upper hands to US navy in the region. PLa navy is gonna get missle cruisers, just WOW!

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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> We shall at least build 20 of this baby to get advantage in SCS. Make sure we have upper hands to US navy in the region. PLa navy is gonna get missle cruisers, just WOW!


Just like 20 Kirov cruiser vs USN.

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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> Yankee will fall if they insist challenge China.



Something significant will happen in 2018 between China and US. 

Mark my words!

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## hk299792458

I followed @Penguin since years, especially for China aerospace news, and I always find him constructive and talk with courtesy.

If you all don't mind to stick back to the topic, please.

Henri K.

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## Daniel808

hk299792458 said:


> I followed @Penguin since years, especially for China aerospace news, and I always find him constructive and talk with courtesy.
> 
> If you all don't mind to stick back to the topic, please.
> 
> Henri K.



If that little kid always Constructive and talk with courtesy.
He would not Derail Type 055 Destroyer Thread to SCS Issue.

@Deino Sir, please clean this Good thread from SCS Issue.
Thanks.



cnleio said:


> China type055 DDG start building
> 
> View attachment 306571
> View attachment 306572



a very deadly big ship
Nice Development for China's Navy 

I hope Type 055 Heavy Destroyer would use Advanced Enclosed Mast/Sensor (AEM/S) System mast.

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## 星海军事



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## Tiqiu



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## english_man

Please can members here, add some texts to the images that they post here, as its not always clear what you are trying to tell us.
Also, for those posting from Chinese websites, please could we also have a English translation as well please.
You no it makes sense. Thanks

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## sheik

english_man said:


> Please can members here, add some texts to the images that they post here, as its not always clear what you are trying to tell us.
> Also, for those posting from Chinese websites, please could we also have a English translation as well please.
> You no it makes sense. Thanks



The note of the new pictures just says that the construction of the new destroyer of 10,000-ton displacement class was started at Jiangnan Shipyard in March 2016.

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## lcloo

It looked as if CCG 2901 and 3901 are the prelude to 055 DDG since they are being/were built at the same out-door location, and they have similar tonnage. This mean we shall be able to see more photos of the ship shaping up as time pass.


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## cnleio

english_man said:


> Please can members here, add some texts to the images that they post here, as its not always clear what you are trying to tell us.
> Also, for those posting from Chinese websites, please could we also have a English translation as well please.
> You no it makes sense. Thanks


Above photo showed the helo hangar of type055 DDG, we can see the structure has 4-floor. And the text in Chinese said the first China type055 DDG started building in this shipyard(ShangHai. JiangNan) since 2016-03.

China domestic air-defence DDG developed from type052C ==> type052D ==> type055, future China plan to build more air-defence DDGs.

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## 帅的一匹

Ladies and gentlemen, Indonesian coastal guard shot our fishmen yesterday in our traditional fishing ground in SCS. How shall we deal with those bastards?


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## cnleio

wanglaokan said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, Indonesian coastal guard shot our fishmen yesterday in our traditional fishing ground in SCS. How shall we deal with those bastards?


I read news said Chinese fishmen cross the nine-dashed line illegal fishing in there, so how we deal with this case ?


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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, Indonesian coastal guard shot our fishmen yesterday in our traditional fishing ground in SCS. How shall we deal with those bastards?


If our fishermen indeed break the law , they must face the music. Natunas is not under 9 dash line.

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## Deino

*Can You please continue this - in fact political - discussion in the general PLN thread ???

Not sure how this is related to the 055 DDG.*

Deino

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## Tiqiu

It is said these CG images are the closest to the real thing

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## Beast

Tiqiu said:


> It is said these CG images are the closest to the real thing
> View attachment 311886
> 
> View attachment 311887
> 
> View attachment 311888
> 
> View attachment 311889


I still hold out for a 128 VLS canister combo.

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## Tiqiu

Beast said:


> I still hold out for a 128 VLS canister combo.


At least 112 VLS according to this

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## Beast

Tiqiu said:


> At least 112 VLS according to this


I know Chinese canister is bigger but it will be disappointing if it carries anything less than 128 VLS given its huge tonnage.

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## lcloo

大神Slayerhuahua from Chinese Internet said 118 cells VLS.

The hull at the bow has "V"shape cross-section, yet it can accommodate 60 cells VLS despite smaller footprint at the hull bottom (as illustrated in above post).

The hull cross-section at midship is similar to "U" shape, thus able to seat more missiles at bottom of the hull. Therefore it is not unreasonable to expect 48 or more cells from the mdship VLS.

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## 星海军事

lcloo said:


> 大神Slayerhuahua from Chinese Internet said 118 cells VLS.
> 
> The hull at the bow has "V"shape cross-section, yet it can accommodate 60 cells VLS despite smaller footprint at the hull bottom (as illustrated in above post).
> 
> The hull cross-section at midship is similar to "U" shape, thus able to seat more missiles at bottom of the hull. Therefore it is not unreasonable to expect 48 or more cells from the mdship VLS.



Number of the cells is definetly a multiple of 8

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## lcloo

星海军事 said:


> Number of the cells is definetly a multiple of 8



My mistake, I thought it was multiple of 6......

So it is 112 cells as quoted by Slayerhuahua. That sound fine since each cell may contain from 1 to 4 missiles of different sizes.


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## Beast

lcloo said:


> My mistake, I thought it was multiple of 6......
> 
> So it is 112 cells as quoted by Slayerhuahua. That sound fine since each cell may contain from 1 to 4 missiles of different sizes.


But the more powerful LRSAM and anti-ballistic missile can only fit one each cell.

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## cnleio

Deino said:


> *Can You please continue this - in fact political - discussion in the general PLN thread ???
> 
> Not sure how this is related to the 055 DDG.*
> 
> Deino


Dear Deino, Here off-topic. Do u have internal photos inside the "Wiesel TOW" ? Two crew or Three crew ?
Im interesting in this cute weapon, wanna see internal photos ... thanks!

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## cnleio

JN shipyard building China 1st type055 DDG

End of 2016 we can see the shipbody of 1st type055

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## Penguin

cnleio said:


> Dear Deino, Here off-topic. Do u have internal photos inside the "Wiesel TOW" ? Two crew or Three crew ?
> Im interesting in this cute weapon, wanna see internal photos ... thanks!



Wiesel ambulance











Wiesel 1 TOW









Two seat in the rear, one on the right front. Stowage space for TOW.

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## 星海军事

cnleio said:


> JN shipyard building China 1st type055 DDG
> 
> End of 2016 we can see the shipbody of 1st type055
> View attachment 321380
> 
> View attachment 321381
> 
> View attachment 321382
> 
> View attachment 321383


This conjecture is totally wrong

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## cnleio

星海军事 said:


> This conjecture is totally wrong


So what's the date ?


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## Akasa

cnleio said:


> So what's the date ?



Judging from the state of assembly, and a rough juxtaposition thereof to the timeline of the construction of the initial 052D, 2016 seems to be an unreasonable date for a launch.

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## hk299792458

星海军事 said:


> This conjecture is totally wrong





cnleio said:


> So what's the date ?



When 星海 said it is wrong, I think he was not talking about date, but the drawing.

The bloc is clearly for the prow and not the stern. Some guys from CD are quite funny from time to time.

Henri K.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

I'm wondering why China still build a classic layout for o55, we should do the best of the best, something stealthy similar to DDG1000 zumwalt class destroyer or better.

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## cnleio

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I'm wondering why China still build a classic layout for o55, we should do the best of the best, something stealthy similar to DDG1000 zumwalt class destroyer or better.


One DDG-1000 cost can build 6~7x A.B DDGs ... even U.S Navy can't afford many, they already building 74x A.B/A.B-II/A.B-IIA DDGs.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

cnleio said:


> One DDG-1000 cost can build 6~7x A.B DDGs ... even U.S Navy can't afford many, they already building 74x A.B/A.B-II/A.B-IIA DDGs.



Let suppose that US is willing to sell us this DDG-1000, there is great chance that our admirals will buy it even at higher price but ask if we gonna design something similar, we're reluctant because of the cost...you see the problem the designer is facing? If we condemn ourselt with a double standard mindset that we're willing to buy expensive ship but not willing to design something similar because of the cost then we're really fck.

Of course if we don't have technology to make something similar to DDG-1000 is another story.

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## Pepsi Cola

There's likely be preliminary designs and researches for a Chinese Zumwalt already, but I think China would want to wait for its railgun to complete its development first.

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## cnleio

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Let suppose that US is willing to sell us this DDG-1000, there is great chance that our admirals will buy it even at higher price but ask if we gonna design something similar, we're reluctant because of the cost...you see the problem the designer is facing? If we condemn ourselt with a double standard mindset that we're willing to buy expensive ship but not willing to design something similar because of the cost then we're really fck.
> 
> Of course if we don't have technology to make something similar to DDG-1000 is another story.


LOL ... a beautiful dream, my friend !

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## english_man

The Chinese method is one of evolution.......whereas in the last couple of decades the Americans have gone for a revolutionary approach for new defense projects, with varying results.
The Zumwalt is sure to be an excellent ship. but it hasn't proven itself yet...........and i'am sure countries around the world will be keeping a close eye on this vessel to see how it performs.
Basically, the staggering costs of the Americans approach to military projects, has seen some of them cancelled, and with the case of the Zumwalt, the Americans have decided to go back to building the more traditional Arleigh Burke class.
I think the Chinese decision to build the 055 Cruiser, will provide them with a warship, more than capable of taking on any of the other world's best warships.
One day China may go for a revolutionary design, but at the moment their priority is rebuilding their Navy with an ulta- modern fighting force.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

english_man said:


> The Chinese method is one of evolution.......whereas in the last couple of decades the Americans have gone for a revolutionary approach for new defense projects, with varying results.
> The Zumwalt is sure to be an excellent ship. but it hasn't proven itself yet...........and i'am sure countries around the world will be keeping a close eye on this vessel to see how it performs.
> Basically, the staggering costs of the Americans approach to military projects, has seen some of them cancelled, and with the case of the Zumwalt, the Americans have decided to go back to building the more traditional Arleigh Burke class.
> I think the Chinese decision to build the 055 Cruiser, will provide them with a warship, more than capable of taking on any of the other world's best warships.
> One day China may go for a revolutionary design, but at the moment their priority is rebuilding their Navy with an ulta- modern fighting force.



I agree with this approach not to jump into a too risky technology to end up with a failed design but at least we should make type 055 as stealthy design as DDG1000 maybe without rail gun and nuke power plant.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

cnleio said:


> LOL ... a beautiful dream, my friend !



We need a beautiful dream for the best of our country. But I was deceived that Chinese designer had not done enough, take Z-19 as example, we could have inspire US Comanche configuration to make our scout helo not copy but as reference and guideline but instead we just use Z-9 dophine and shrinking the body and cut the corner for the cost reason. if you observe Z-19 rear section, it' is practically identical as the Z-9...sorry for being critic but this Z-19 look like a Frankenstein nothing impressive.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Desing something similar to Americans and hear for next ten years..._China stole, China stole..._

Time for Chinese design and innovation to come out in massive numbers.

055 is a beast. Need 30 of them to come out of fast.

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## Beidou2020

Sinopakfriend said:


> Desing something similar to Americans and hear for next ten years..._China stole, China stole..._
> 
> Time for Chinese design and innovation to come out in massive numbers.
> 
> 055 is a beast. Need 30 of them to come out of fast.



The companies designing these weapons are all state-owned enterprises (SOEs). 

China's best companies in the civilian sector are private companies like Huawei, Xiaomi, Alibaba, etc.

The problem with SOEs is that they have a guaranteed backup in the government so they are less concerned about profits and innovation than private companies. Private companies have to give a quality product to survive in the market, so they tend to be more innovative in general.

China should allow private companies to make these weapons along with the SOEs and then the PLA can choose the best option.

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## Brainsucker

I think the problem is not from the company themselves. We have witness many advanced and cool weapons that these companies develop and show at the military exhibitions for export. They were innovative and advanced. But still PLA didn't adopted them. Instead they chose more traditional approach that has less innovation than what the companies showed in the exhibition.

For example is PLA tank. We know that they can make an unmanned machine gun that placed at the top of the turret. But still this technology is not adopted to the PLA most advanced tank, the Type 99B. They still put soldiers at risk by manned the machine gun themselves.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Brainsucker said:


> I think the problem is not from the company themselves. We have witness many advanced and cool weapons that these companies develop and show at the military exhibitions for export. They were innovative and advanced. But still PLA didn't adopted them. Instead they chose more traditional approach that has less innovation than what the companies showed in the exhibition.
> 
> For example is PLA tank. We know that they can make an unmanned machine gun that placed at the top of the turret. But still this technology is not adopted to the PLA most advanced tank, the Type 99B. They still put soldiers at risk by manned the machine gun themselves.



For me it's simple, if we don't aim at sophistication and excellency, our soldiers will be in great danger on battlefield and less likely they will accomplish the mission and ultimately translate that we will lose the war and likely the nation will be fck.

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## Beast

Brainsucker said:


> I think the problem is not from the company themselves. We have witness many advanced and cool weapons that these companies develop and show at the military exhibitions for export. They were innovative and advanced. But still PLA didn't adopted them. Instead they chose more traditional approach that has less innovation than what the companies showed in the exhibition.
> 
> For example is PLA tank. We know that they can make an unmanned machine gun that placed at the top of the turret. But still this technology is not adopted to the PLA most advanced tank, the Type 99B. They still put soldiers at risk by manned the machine gun themselves.



I dont think PLA wants to put their soldier at risk or not embracing innovative technology. Its becos PLA do not believe the unmanned remote gun will have a better situation awareness or response compare to manned machine gun.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Beidou2020 said:


> The companies designing these weapons are all state-owned enterprises (SOEs).
> 
> China's best companies in the civilian sector are private companies like Huawei, Xiaomi, Alibaba, etc.
> 
> The problem with SOEs is that they have a guaranteed backup in the government so they are less concerned about profits and innovation than private companies. Private companies have to give a quality product to survive in the market, so they tend to be more innovative in general.
> 
> China should allow private companies to make these weapons along with the SOEs and then the PLA can choose the best option.



Absolutely. We need to create a healthy competition. Will act as a motivation fo SOEs to raise their game.

But I believe China should never go for totally private sector in defence. Not for a generation at least.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The Type 055 with the 155mm gun.

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## 星海军事

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 055 with the 155mm gun.
> 
> View attachment 323545


These are all 130mm H/PJ-38.


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## ChineseTiger1986

星海军事 said:


> These are all 130mm H/PJ-38.



This cannot be 130, we first spotted 130 prior to the appearance of the Type 052D.

* 2015年，北重集团承担了我国万吨级驱逐舰设计的新型大口径火炮身管加工任务*，由于加工难度大，戎鹏强主动请缨，接过了这个烫手山芋。由于是新产品，加工使用的刀体工装，加工时的切削深度、切削速度、转速等关键参数都没有，戎鹏强几乎是从零起步，试制过程中尝试用木导键刀体加工该产品，但造成加工精度差，加工效率低，而且出现锥孔，直线度超差，样柱不通，达不到技术要求。当时技术团队一筹莫展。看着交付进度一天天临近，戎鹏强冥思苦想加工方案，最难的时候，他每天和技术人员攻关到凌晨1点，回家稍微闭一下眼，然后洗漱，吃早饭，又回到现场。经过不懈努力，戎鹏强成功对工装、刀具进行自制改造，解决了该产品精加工工序难点，同时对所用的精镗导片进行重新设计各种角度，使产品一次加工合格，同时自制刀体在加工中发挥了绝对优势，使加工的产品直线度、光洁度等主要指标得到保证，同时也提高了工作效率。

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## Beast

I too saw a rumour of new 155mm for PLAN few years from fyjs, claiming the advantage of sharing same army 155mm rds for shore bombardment. Not sure how credible that is....

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## 星海军事

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This cannot be 130, we first spotted 130 prior to the appearance of the Type 052D.
> 
> * 2015年，北重集团承担了我国万吨级驱逐舰设计的新型大口径火炮身管加工任务*，由于加工难度大，戎鹏强主动请缨，接过了这个烫手山芋。由于是新产品，加工使用的刀体工装，加工时的切削深度、切削速度、转速等关键参数都没有，戎鹏强几乎是从零起步，试制过程中尝试用木导键刀体加工该产品，但造成加工精度差，加工效率低，而且出现锥孔，直线度超差，样柱不通，达不到技术要求。当时技术团队一筹莫展。看着交付进度一天天临近，戎鹏强冥思苦想加工方案，最难的时候，他每天和技术人员攻关到凌晨1点，回家稍微闭一下眼，然后洗漱，吃早饭，又回到现场。经过不懈努力，戎鹏强成功对工装、刀具进行自制改造，解决了该产品精加工工序难点，同时对所用的精镗导片进行重新设计各种角度，使产品一次加工合格，同时自制刀体在加工中发挥了绝对优势，使加工的产品直线度、光洁度等主要指标得到保证，同时也提高了工作效率。



This article was first discovered by me yesterday and I gave my comment at that time. 

http://weibo.com/3216449381/E2aDQ9Okb?type=comment#_rnd1470449288523

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## hk299792458

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 055 with the 155mm gun.
> 
> View attachment 323545



No, just H/PJ-38 130mm.

Chinese navy is converging to only 3 calibers : 30mm, 76mm and 130mm.

Henri K.

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## cirr

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 055 with the 155mm gun.
> 
> View attachment 323545



055驱逐舰列装单130口径38型舰炮是毫无疑问的。而现在可能出现的状态唯有一点，即列装于055型驱逐舰上的单130舰炮是否会恢复减重前的状态，也就是恢复双路供弹系统和取消炮口制退器。

Possible removal of muzzle brake and restoration of dual-channel shell-feeding system in the original design.

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## ChineseTiger1986

@UKBengali China is now simultaneously building 3 Type 055 destroyers in one single shipyard. The lead ship of this class will soon be launched. So it is likely that China can also simultaneously build 3 Type 095 SSN at the same time.

http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2275386-1-1.html

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## UKBengali

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> @UKBengali China is now simultaneously building 3 Type 055 destroyers in one single shipyard. The lead ship of this class will soon be launched. So it is likely that China can also simultaneously build 3 Type 095 SSN at the same time.
> 
> http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2275386-1-1.html



And these Indians think that their imported Navy would stand a chance against China next decade in the IOR.

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## ChineseTiger1986

UKBengali said:


> And these Indians think that their imported Navy would stand a chance against Chine next decade in the IOR.



The Kolkata class destroyer was initially designed to face against the Type 052C, since these two ships both belong to the early 2000s. Now the first two Kolkata just barely commissioned, but they already face a large number of the Type 052D.

When the first of the Visakhapatnam class being commissioned, it will also face a large number of the Type 055.

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## UKBengali

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Kolkata class destroyer was initially designed to face against the Type 052C, since these two ships both belong to the early 2000s. Now the first two Kolkata just barely commissioned, but they already face a large number of the Type 052D.
> 
> When the first of the Visakhapatnam class being commissioned, it will also face a large number of the Type 055.



Just one Type-055 cruiser will have more firepower than 3 Kolkata class destroyers - there is no comparison here at all.

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## Blue Marlin

UKBengali said:


> Just one Type-055 cruiser will have more firepower than 3 Kolkata class destroyers - there is no comparison here at all.


its too early to tell the type 55 is not even launched let alone in trails. most likely it will have 2x64 cell vls

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## ChineseTiger1986

UKBengali said:


> Just one Type-055 cruiser will have more firepower than 3 Kolkata class destroyers - there is no comparison here at all.



China right now has the plan to build 8+16 Type 055 in the first batch, then another 24 in the second batch.



Blue Marlin said:


> its too early to tell the type 55 is not even launched let alone in trails. most likely it will have 2x64 cell vls



The Type 055A got 64+48 VLS units, and the Type 055B will have 64+64 VLS units.

Because each unit of the CCL VLS is huge, even larger than the MK57, let alone the smaller MK41.

The Type 055B will definitely displace over 15,000 tonnes.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> @UKBengali China is now simultaneously building 3 Type 055 destroyers in one single shipyard. The lead ship of this class will soon be launched. So it is likely that China can also simultaneously build 3 Type 095 SSN at the same time.
> 
> http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2275386-1-1.html



I don't think this is reliable. So far we know one being under construction - barely ready to be launched soon ...

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> I don't think this is reliable. So far we know one being under construction - barely ready to be launched soon ...



Well, JN's shipyard is huge, it can simultaneously build multiple mega DDGs.

BTW, this guy is one of those leakers, he knows more stuff than you and me.

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## Penguin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China right now has the plan to build 8+16 Type 055 in the first batch, then another 24 in the second batch.


(Official) Source?

054b: 22+5 building
052C: 6
052D: Planned: 12+

I personally would consider 24+24 quite unlikely therefor.

Lets wait and see what happens with the first one. You might well see a pair built, followed by extensive testing.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Penguin said:


> (Official) Source?
> 
> 054b: 22+5 building
> 052C: 6
> 052D: Planned: 12+
> 
> I personally would consider 24+24 quite unlikely therefor.
> 
> Lets wait and see what happens with the first one. You might well see a pair built, followed by extensive testing.



Being eventually built by 3 shipyards, then you can imagine the quantity of this class of destroyer.

The Arleigh Burke class is only being built by 2 shipyards.

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## Brainsucker

Penguin said:


> (Official) Source?
> 
> 054b: 22+5 building
> 052C: 6
> 052D: Planned: 12+
> 
> I personally would consider 24+24 quite unlikely therefor.
> 
> Lets wait and see what happens with the first one. You might well see a pair built, followed by extensive testing.



I agree, this platform is still untested. So they would probably test them for some quite of time. There is a probability that the 055 will be another 051B, 051C. Or maybe it will be like the 052C. So either this new platform will become a testbed for a newer class or they will test them, and if it's good they will build 3 - 4 ships before rolling out a better ships with more quantities, if newer technologies are available (just like the 052C --> 052D)


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## ChineseTiger1986

Brainsucker said:


> I agree, this platform is still untested. So they would probably test them for some quite of time. There is a probability that the 055 will be another 051B, 051C. Or maybe it will be like the 052C. So either this new platform will become a testbed for a newer class or they will test them, and if it's good they will build 3 - 4 ships before rolling out a better ships with more quantities, if newer technologies are available (just like the 052C --> 052D)



The Type 051B/C were outdated since the day they were born, but the Type 055 is just another story.

This is the ultimate reward of China's decades of hard work. At the current stage, the Type 055 is the ultimate goal ship. And its eventual quantity can be as many as the Arleigh Burke class.

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## Brainsucker

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Being eventually built by 3 shipyards, then you can imagine the quantity of this class of destroyer.
> 
> The Arleigh Burke class is only being built by 2 shipyards.



I agree. With 3 shipyards prepared to build this design, mean that they are serious with the 055 series. But I don't think that it will solely mean for the initial 055 design. Just look at this ship. It's big; much bigger than the 052D. And there are a lot of room for this design to improve. With the current of research drive that they are doing right now; I'm sure that there will some newer technologies available soon.

So let us see. Untested platform (they will test them to see the reliability of the 055 series platform, compared to the existing ones), have a lot of room to improve (because of the size), newer technologies that will available soon. So building too many initial 055 design will be not a wise idea. I can expect that 055A, B, C, D designs will be role out of the design room faster than we will anticipated. So 2 will be enough for now; and later on (soon enough) we can see more ships from the A, B, C, D, E.... platforms in near future.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Brainsucker said:


> I agree. With 3 shipyards prepared to build this design, mean that they are serious with the 055 series. But I don't think that it will solely mean for the initial 055 design. Just look at this ship. It's big; much bigger than the 052D. And there are a lot of room for this design to improve. With the current of research drive that they are doing right now; I'm sure that there will some newer technologies available soon.
> 
> So let us see. Untested platform (they will test them to see the reliability of the 055 series platform, compared to the existing ones), have a lot of room to improve (because of the size), newer technologies that will available soon. So building too many initial 055 design will be not a wise idea. I can expect that 055A, B, C, D designs will be role out of the design room faster than we will anticipated. So 2 will be enough for now.



The Type 052D is already the test platform, the Type 055 is just a bigger upgrade. The Type 052D is actually more advanced than the Arleigh Burke Flight IIA, but the only shortcoming is the full potential of its radar/weapon systems have been hindered by the smaller tonnage of a CODOG ship.

The Type 055 will unleash all the potential of the advanced radar/weapon systems of the Type 052D.

You cannot compare with the Type 052C. When the Type 052C was available, China had no any experience with those AEGIS destroyers, but now everything is different.

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## Brainsucker

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 052D is already the test platform, the Type 055 is just a bigger upgrade. The Type 052D is actually more advanced than the Arleigh Burke Flight IIA, but the only shortcoming is the full potential of its radar/weapon systems has been hindered by the smaller tonnage of a CODOG ship.
> 
> The Type 055 will unleash all the potential of the advanced radar/weapon systems of the Type 052D.
> 
> You cannot compare with the Type 052C. When the Type 052C was available, China had no any experience with those AEGIS destroyers, but now everything is different.



Your opinion is logical. Ok, let's us see who is right in the future. It doesn't mean that your or I must be right about this. But there are two possibilities that can happen in the future, regarding the 055. Hopefully, you're right, because your opinion is more optimist than mine.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Brainsucker said:


> Your point is logical. Ok, let's us see who is right in the future. It doesn't mean that your or I must be right about this. But there are two probability that will happen in near future, regarding the 055. Hopefully, you're right, because your opinion is more optimist than mine.



According to POP3, the Type 055 will become the backbone of the PLAN along with those 50+ nuclear subs in the near future.

The Type 052D is definitely a watered-down test platform for the Type 055, yet China has planned to build 18 ships of this class.

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## cirr

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> According to POP3, the Type 055 will become the backbone of the PLAN along with those 50+ nuclear subs in the near future.
> 
> The Type 052D is definitely a watered-down test platform for the Type 055, yet China has planned to build 18 ships of this class.



He(POP3) still won't disclose what the new medium range air defence missile is. 

Definitely not HHQ-16C.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cirr said:


> He(POP3) still won't disclose what the new medium range air defence missile is.
> 
> Definitely not HHQ-16C.



He also didn't want to mention anything about the HQ-26.

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> He(POP3) still won't disclose what the new medium range air defence missile is.
> 
> Definitely not HHQ-16C.



It is likely to be either the DK-10A (or perhaps an improved derivative) or the FM-3000. Since there are rumors that the DK-10A failed PLAN trials, the the mystery missile is more likely the latter at this point.


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## Penguin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Being eventually built by 3 shipyards, then you can imagine the quantity of this class of destroyer.
> 
> The Arleigh Burke class is only being built by 2 shipyards.


Like you say, imagine. I was inquiring about fact i.e. any official statements or the like.

While AB may be built in 2 yards, there are 67 active and 79 planned
The Italian/Franco Horizon was built in 2 yards, but only 4 were built.
The Sovremenny class was built in 1 yard, 18 were built.
The Udaloy class was built at 2 yards, with 13 units built.
You see Talwar/11356 being taken from one yard to another, for political reason.

The projected number in practise has little to do with the number of yards involved in construction of a class.



Brainsucker said:


> I agree, this platform is still untested. So they would probably test them for some quite of time. There is a probability that the 055 will be another 051B, 051C. Or maybe it will be like the 052C. So either this new platform will become a testbed for a newer class or they will test them, and if it's good they will build 3 - 4 ships before rolling out a better ships with more quantities, if newer technologies are available (just like the 052C --> 052D)


It depends a little on how many new systems the ship carries: the more it relies on components tried and tested on other ships, the less risk. The more new components, the greater the need for at least the first unit being thouroughly tested before proceding with building an number of (modified) follow-on ships.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Penguin said:


> The Italian/Franco Horizon was built in 2 yards, but only 4 wer built.



Bad comparison, this class of destroyer was built by two different countries with the need of a much smaller navy.

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## Penguin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Bad comparison, this class of destroyer was built by two different countries with the need of a much smaller navy.


I could have picked any number of classes from any country, it doesn't really matter. Both Horizon and Type 45 are national alternatives that sprang from earlier (failed) common nato AAW frigate effort, so theoretically you could even lump those together. Likewise, Spanish F-100, Dutch LCF and German F-124. Over here, projects are increasingly international e.g. Dutch-German (S-frigate/F122, LCF/F124), Dutch-Spanish (Galicia/Rotterdam LPD, Patino/Amsterdam AOR) etc. Damen of the Netherlands (Sigma corvettes and light frigates. Enforcer LPDs) lets hulls be built in Romania and fits them out in the Netherlands e.g. Doorman JSS. UK Bay class is an Damen Enforcer design variant built by UK yards. FREMM too (8 for France and 10 for Italy).

And even if I did agree that it was a bad comparison, my other examples still stand, of course.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Penguin said:


> I could have picked any number of classes from any country, it doesn't really matter. Both Horizon and Type 45 are national alternatives that sprang from earlier (failed) common nato AAW frigate effort, so theoretically you could even lump those together. Likewise, Spanish F-100, Dutch LCF and German F-124. Over here, projects are increasingly international e.g. Dutch-German (S-frigate/F122, LCF/F124), Dutch-Spanish (Galicia/Rotterdam LPD, Patino/Amsterdam AOR) etc. Damen of the Netherlands (Sigma corvettes and light frigates. Enforcer LPDs) lets hulls be built in Romania and fits them out in the Netherlands e.g. Doorman JSS. UK Bay class is an Damen Enforcer design variant built by UK yards. FREMM too (8 for France and 10 for Italy).
> 
> And even if I did agree that it was a bad comparison, my other examples still stand, of course.



To compare those European countries to China is simply irrelevant.

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## Penguin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> To compare those European countries to China is simply irrelevant.


To declare anything that doesn't suite your pov irrelevant (without even a minimal explanation of how you get to that verdict) is simply simple minded.

(Incidentally, you just declared Russia irrelevant)

((Also, our irrelevant Dutch LCF frigates and their irrelevant German F1214 counterparts - all with Hollandse Signaal aka Thales Netherlands systems, that also forms the basis of UK Type 45 main radar - are ABM capable.))


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## ChineseTiger1986

Penguin said:


> (Incidentally, you just declared Russia irrelevant)



China is China, Russia is Russia.

We are different countries with different industrial capability. When Russia is this, then why China must be that?

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## yantong1980

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China is China, Russia is Russia.
> 
> We are different countries with different industrial capability. When Russia is this, then why China must be that?



Besides what Chinese military needs different from Russian even Western.

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## Penguin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China is China, Russia is Russia.
> 
> We are different countries with different industrial capability. When Russia is this, then why China must be that?


Then why compare with US at all (as you did, obviously, with the number of yards producing Arleigh Burke)? After all, they are different countries with a different industrial capability. And, when the US is this, then why must China be that (and vice versa)? The US is the US. China is China.



yantong1980 said:


> Besides what Chinese military needs different from Russian even Western.


Yeah, and what does Indonesia need with Dutch Damen ships, eh? Or Russian Yakhont on an ex-Dutch Van Speijk frigate. Oh, your Fatahillah class is also Dutch origin, eh? And then the Patimura class are ex-DDR (German). Tomo class from UK. No Chinese ships there.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Penguin said:


> Then why compare with US at all (as you did, obviously, with the number of yards producing Arleigh Burke)? After all, they are different countries with a different industrial capability. And, when the US is this, then why must China be that (and vice versa)?



Just because Europe is building those small navies, then China must follow the same path?

Your logic doesn't make sense. China is China, Europe is Europe.

We have no intention to compare with the US, but we are just building a navy that matches our need. And we don't need any foreigner to tell us how to do.

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## Penguin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Just because Europe is building those small navies, then China must follow the same path?


Wake up! I didn't say so. That's just a figment of your own mind. Quote where you think I did.
Really, do you want to haven an open discussion or just repeat your own point of view over and over again, like some other Chinese posters here?



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Your logic doesn't make sense. China is China, Europe is Europe.


By your own logic, the US is the US. If you find something wrong with my logic, quote the offending part and point out the supposed flaw. Otherwise your remark is just blowing hot air.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We have no intention to compare with the US, but we are just building a navy that matches our need.


You just DID compare with the US, see above in post #382!



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> And we don't need any foreigner to tell us how to do.


I don't know where you get the idea that a foreigner is telling 'you all' how to do anything ....
Seriously, you appear to have a HUGE chip on your shoulder.

FYI, you are just you, not 'we' (unless you consider yourself to be 'royal' and therefore use plural to indicate yourself), I don't think you are a delegate with a mandate, representing a larger group such as e.g. 'the Chinese people'.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Penguin said:


> You just DID compare with the US, see above in post #382!



Not really a comparison, just show we need a lot of Type 055 DDGs, that's it.

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## Penguin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Not really a comparison, just show we need a lot of Type 055 DDGs, that's it.


And, as I pointed out, that does not follow automatically.

I asked you what (preferably official) evidence there was for your claim in post #378 ( "China right now has the plan to build 8+16 Type 055 in the first batch, then another 24 in the second batch.")

In your reply (post #382) you say "Being eventually built by 3 shipyards, then you can imagine the quantity of this class of destroyer." which I point out is IMAGINED, not SOURCE. And it is here you compare to Arleigh Burke "only being built by 2 shipyards"

So, in sum, you have given no official source or even a few non-official but credible sources for the number 055 planned. Thusfar, it is just what you claim that 'we' need. There is of course a difference between (what you think 'we') need and what is actually planned by China's government/navy, what is indeed ordered and what is actually being built.

Thank you. Have a nice evening. Sleep tight.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Penguin said:


> And, as I pointed out, that does not follow automatically.
> 
> I asked you what (preferably official) evidence there was for your claim in post #378 ( "China right now has the plan to build 8+16 Type 055 in the first batch, then another 24 in the second batch.")
> 
> In your reply (post #382) you say "Being eventually built by 3 shipyards, then you can imagine the quantity of this class of destroyer." which I point out is IMAGINED, not SOURCE. And it is here you compare to Arleigh Burke "only being built by 2 shipyards"
> 
> So, in sum, you have given no official source or even a few non-official but credible sources for the number 055 planned. Thusfar, it is just what you claim that 'we' need. There is of course a difference between (what you think 'we') need and what is actually planned by China's government/navy, what is indeed ordered and what is actually being built.
> 
> Thank you. Have a nice evening. Sleep tight.



I heard this from the insiders in our military forums. Whether you like it or not, it won't affect the outcome.

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## lcloo

他既然顽固皆无明，何必点醒这类型外籍砖假？悠悠诱导其出错而毁他于自己圈内之名声即可。

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## grey boy 2

updates

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## ZY-CN-CA

2 
helicopters

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## grey boy 2



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## grey boy 2

Type 055 DGG may has space reserved for DF=21D anti-ship ballistic missile 
大家一直在讨论，为什么动呜呜只有112坑，而不是正理的128坑，参考武汉呜呜的下仓，明显可以发现烟囱后部有个垫高3米的位置，没有合理的解释。最近出现的武汉呜呜图，可以看到垫高位置下面，也在做安装位置测试。难道这就是传说中的舰载弹道反舰导弹的安装预留坑位？

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

grey boy 2 said:


> Type 055 DGG may has space reserved for DF=21D anti-ship ballistic missile
> 大家一直在讨论，为什么动呜呜只有112坑，而不是正理的128坑，参考武汉呜呜的下仓，明显可以发现烟囱后部有个垫高3米的位置，没有合理的解释。最近出现的武汉呜呜图，可以看到垫高位置下面，也在做安装位置测试。难道这就是传说中的舰载弹道反舰导弹的安装预留坑位？



It makes total sense to install strategic deterence systems on this massive cruiser. 

This ship will add more than just big punch to PLAN...apart from C&C this ship is a deterence platform. 

I will not be suprised if down the road 055 will have anti-satellite capabilities along with AShBM missiles. 

PLAN would need a lot of these vessels.

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## dy1022

Sinopakfriend said:


> It makes total sense to install strategic deterence systems on this massive cruiser.
> 
> This ship will add more than just big punch to PLAN...apart from C&C this ship is a deterence platform.
> 
> I will not be suprised if down the road 055 will have anti-satellite capabilities along with AShBM missiles.
> 
> PLAN would need a lot of these vessels.





at least 20-30 055/055A/055B

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## grey boy 2

updates

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## 星海军事

“artist” impression

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## Akasa

星海军事 said:


> “artist” impression



What is the expected launch window for the Type 055?


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## hk299792458

星海军事 said:


> “artist” impression



Why do you add an horizontal radar array beside the APAR ? Any news on that maybe ?

Henri K.


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## 星海军事

hk299792458 said:


> Why do you add an horizontal radar array beside the APAR ? Any news on that maybe ?
> 
> Henri K.


Probably the C band beacon antenna


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## hk299792458

星海军事 said:


> Probably the C band beacon antenna



For H9 guiding ?

Henri K.


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## 星海军事



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## nang2

星海军事 said:


>


Ha, twin helos?


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## clibra

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> big shrimp


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## ChineseTiger1986

clibra said:


>



Or maybe insiders?


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## ahojunk

*China to Connect Bow, Hangars to 3 Installed Sections of 055 Destroyer*
*Posted:* October 2, 2016 | *Author: chankaiyee2* |


_*





Internet photo showing progress in building China’s new Type 055 large destroyer. Credit: HSH fan forum






Hangar section of Type 055 destroyer






One mid section is being connected to another. Credit:haohanfw.com*_​

Mil.news.sina.com.cn says in its report on September 28 that Internet photos disclose that suspected bow and hangars sections of China’s new Type 055 destroyer are ready to be connected to the three major sections that have already been connected.

The photos show that there are two hangars entirely separate for two helicopters or one helicopter and some drones.

There may be one or two middle sections and the stern section to be carried to the site for assembly of the entire hull.

The fold-line design of the bow reduces radar wave reflection to make the ship a better stealth warship.

Source: mil.news.sina.com.cn “Three major sections of China’s Type 055 warship have been connected: Bow and hangar sections will immediately be installed” (summary by Chan Kai Yee based on the report in Chinese)

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Just love the speed and precision of construction... moving like clock work...

Hopefully, soon we will be able to see the ship...and what sleek ship it is!

@ChineseTiger1986 when do you think this ship will be water brother?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Sinopakfriend said:


> Just love the speed and precision of construction... moving like clock work...
> 
> Hopefully, soon we will be able to see the ship...and what sleek ship it is!
> 
> @ChineseTiger1986 when do you think this ship will be water brother?



Being launched in 2017 and commissioned in 2019.

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## lcloo

According to pop3's latest article, 055 cost is 6 billion RMB.

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## english_man

lcloo said:


> According to pop3's latest article, 055 cost is 6 billion RMB.



I believe at today's rates that would be equivalent to $900 million. Sounds like a decent price to me, compared to similar Western vessels, which would be around twice as expensive.
Roll on 2017, so we can all get a good look at the new 055!

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## grey boy 2

055 DDG is coming along quicker than we thought ([小火车] X55型驱逐舰舰艏即将吊装--浩汉首发)

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## 帅的一匹

lcloo said:


> According to pop3's latest article, 055 cost is 6 billion RMB.


 damn cheap


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## cirr

grey boy 2 said:


> 055 DDG is coming along quicker than we thought ([小火车] X55型驱逐舰舰艏即将吊装--浩汉首发)

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## IblinI



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## grey boy 2

Official leak of 055 DDG (官泄055啦)

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## lcloo

New progress.

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## Deino

Tatatata .... here it is !

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## 592257001

Deino said:


> Tatatata .... here it is !
> 
> View attachment 344359



Bow-mounted sonar too small, no me gusta


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## cirr

Deino said:


> Tatatata .... here it is !
> 
> View attachment 344359



Backside

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## IblinI

Module of second type 055 appears at the back!

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## 艹艹艹



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## Beast

long_ said:


> View attachment 344477


80 VLS only? What are they trying to smoke?
It is impossible given the bigger tonnage and wider forward bow can accommodate only 32 VLS same as Type052D. The illustrator need to get his eyes check.

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## yantong1980

Wutt? CG shows about same size with current Chinese destroyer? What about the 'cruiser like' tonnage?

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## Beast

yantong1980 said:


> Wutt? CG shows about same size with current Chinese destroyer? What about the 'cruiser like' tonnage?


The writer knows nothing and draw rubbish. He shall be sacked.

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## grey boy 2

updates

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## lcloo

So.... which one will be launched first? 001A or 055?

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## grey boy 2

The so-called most reliable source of 055 DDG leaked with128 VLS
最新中国055大型驱逐舰的建造图流出，封闭式舰艏一览无余。有网友根据现有信息制作055驱逐舰CG图，可以看到128组通用垂直发射单元，可发射防空以及巡航导弹。如果真如此，055将成为世界上通用垂直发射单元最多的战舰。

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## DCS

Thanks grey boy, best cgi so far. The long bow and large stack of VLS cells gives it a cruiser look. This will be my new desktop.

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## 星海军事

grey boy 2 said:


> The so-called most reliable source of 055 DDG leaked with128 VLS
> 最新中国055大型驱逐舰的建造图流出，封闭式舰艏一览无余。有网友根据现有信息制作055驱逐舰CG图，可以看到128组通用垂直发射单元，可发射防空以及巡航导弹。如果真如此，055将成为世界上通用垂直发射单元最多的战舰。



These are merely amateurs' impression.

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## DCS

星海军事 said:


> These are merely amateurs' impression.



For accuracy we have your module cgi, for imagination we have fanboy cgi 

I personally don't expect such a long bow, and I feel VLS will be well less of 128. But the fanboy inside of me likes bigger and better.

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## Beast

DCS said:


> For accuracy we have your module cgi, for imagination we have fanboy cgi
> 
> I personally don't expect such a long bow, and I feel VLS will be well less of 128. But the fanboy inside of me likes bigger and better.


It's not abtt fanboy but logic tells you. Type055 cruise with almost twice the tonnage compare to 052D shall not be a modest increase in numbers of VLS. Got one Chinese joker illustrate 055 has only 80VLS. Typical inferior syndrome. It shall between 112-128 VLS.

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## DCS

Beast said:


> It's not abtt fanboy but logic tells you. Type055 cruise with almost twice the tonnage compare to 052D shall not be a modest increase in numbers of VLS. Got one Chinese joker illustrate 055 has only 80VLS. Typical inferior syndrome. It shall between 112-128 VLS.



The only way there could be 80 cell VLS is if an even larger VLS is used which seems unlikely. Current 052D VLS is already larger than the Mk 57 VLS on the Zumwalt, which is in turn larger than the Mk 41 on the Burkes. 

I'm expecting 96-128, but settling on a nice rounded 112. The difficulty is that we don't have published displacement, only a possible range from 10000 to 13000. Time will tell though. 

I'm more interested to know if there will be a newer iteration of the Type 346A from the 052D, and also about the sensor mast arrangement.


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## clibra

english_man said:


> I believe at today's rates that would be equivalent to $900 million. Sounds like a decent price to me, compared to similar Western vessels, which would be around twice as expensive.
> Roll on 2017, so we can all get a good look at the new 055!



Do you have any idea about the price of Flight III Arleigh Burke ? I found 2.7 billion USD price from internet but not sure.
Type 055 is similar or even superior to Burke III on major performance, like tonnage, weapon and fire power, Radar advance level, stealth shape,... etc. but the price is only 0.9 billion USD, 1/3 of Burke III.


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## lcloo

clibra said:


> Do you have any idea about the price of Flight III Arleigh Burke ? I foffound 2.7 billion USD price from internet but not sure.
> Type 055 is similar or even superior to Burke III on major performance, like tonnage, weapon and fire power, Radar advance level, stealth shape,... etc. but the price is only 0.9 billion USD, 1/3 of Burke III.


Price tag of PLAN ships are cost + 5%, i.e. the ship builder will be paid 5% on top of the cost. This was disclosed by huahua in cjdby recently.

What is the exact definition of cost in this case was not clear. It could be total project cost, or cost of works under taken by ship builder.


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## clibra

lcloo said:


> Price tag of PLAN ships are cost + 5%, i.e. the ship builder will be paid 5% on top of the cost. This was disclosed by huahua in cjdby recently.
> 
> What is the exact definition of cost in this case was not clear. It could be total project cost, or cost of works under taken by ship builder.



According to POP3, PLAN's definition of cost is clear, include all stuff : hull, engins, gun, VLS, radar, electronics,...... etc., do not include all missiles and ammunition and helicopter.

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## Bussard Ramjet

@cirr @cnleio 

How many 55s are under construction right now? 

Is it 1 or 2?


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## GS Zhou

Bussard Ramjet said:


> @cirr @cnleio
> 
> How many 55s are under construction right now?
> 
> Is it 1 or 2?


three under construction in parallel

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## Bussard Ramjet

GS Zhou said:


> three under construction in parallel



Seriously!

But pictures being floated were of only one hull!


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## GS Zhou

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Seriously!
> 
> But pictures being floated were of only one hull!


the three are built in different stages. the one you see is with the highest completion rate.

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## monitor

*Pictures Showing China's Type 055 Next Gen Destroyer Under Construction in Shanghai*

Recent pictures from China confirm that the first hull of the next generation Type 055 Guided-Missile Destroyer (DDG) for the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN or Chinese Navy) entered final assembly stage at the Jiangnan Changxing naval shipyard located near Shanghai. The information is reported from our colleagues from East Pendulum.

Through photos taken by Shanghai-based spotters, we can witness the chronological assembly of the first Chinese destroyer displacing over 10,000 t:





*October 2015: Type 055's First construction block emerges*




*May 2016: Spotter's picture showing an entire section: Large aft module showing an helicopter pad (left) and hangar (right) at Jiangnan Changxing naval shipyard (Shanghai).*




*Late July / Early August 2016: The main sections about to be assembled together in the dry construction dock*

*Larger vessel = more endurance*
With a relatively rapid economic development, China's dependence on its maritime supply routes is becoming stronger. The need to protect its vital supply lines and interests overseas (who are now present on almost every continent) becomes paramount. The PLAN will therefore no longer be content to intervene only near its shore lines and on the continental shelf of the country. It now needs to be present where the interests of the country are, and therefore have the ability to fight anywhere in the world, to expand the political will of the Chinese state, protect Chinese nationals and defend its economic interests.

The Type 055 Destroyer is the consequence of this emerging need. For a country like China, which is still lacking overseas supply bases (one is under construction in Djibouti), a larger platform means more endurance at sea. Type 055 are set to have a displacement of 10,000 tons (to be compared with the 7,500 tons full load displacement of the Type 052D destroyer).




*Picture taken in the second half of August 2016: Note the Type 055 section (between the left foot of the great crane marked "CSSC" and the yellow superstructure of a commercial ship).*

The Type 055 guided missile destroyer programme was launched in December 2009, virtually in parallel to the Type 052D programme. Sources close to the local shipbuilding industry and to the PLAN have repeatedly used words like "new thinking", "new concept", "technology leap " and "revolutionary" to describe the ship. Since most of the weapons fit remains similar to the Type 052D, most of that "new technology" likely has to do with the architecture of the combat system, as well as in the electronic, electromagnetic and construction domains. According to a retired PLAN officer, Type 055 combat system is highly integrated and capable of data fusion with sensors belonging to other branches of the military (AWACS and Satellites ?) which represents a leap.

_*Update 26/08/2016:* Some readers based in China informed us that PLAN vessels have had datalink capability with satellites and AWACS for the past 10 years already (including Type 022 vessels). The "technology leap" woud likely rather be in the fields of higher data fusion and automation, as far as Type 055 is concerned._

*According to Chinese media, the first tranche consist in four vessels (including two built at the Dalian naval shipyard). The unit cost of Type 055 is in excess of 5 Billion Yuan (approx. $750 Million USD*). The first keel is rumored to have been layed in December 2014. The first vessel is likely to be launched in early 2017 while delivery to the PLAN should not happen until 2018 at the earliest.

To learn more: Link to Type 055 Destroyer technical datasheet.

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## english_man

I read somewhere that 4 055's would be built initially, 2 at JN and 2 at Dalian shipyards.

Now we know that 1 definitely has had its hull modules put together at JN..........so if you say 3 are being built, does that imply the other 2 are in modules at JN also, and if so, then it means that Dalian won't be building two of the initial batch?

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## 592257001

english_man said:


> I read somewhere that 4 055's would be built initially, 2 at JN and 2 at Dalian shipyards.
> 
> Now we know that 1 definitely has had its hull modules put together at JN..........so if you say 3 are being built, does that imply the other 2 are in modules at JN also, and if so, then it means that Dalian won't be building two of the initial batch?



Dalian's got its hands full with at least 3 052D in various stages of completion right now. I doubt it will have time for the initial batch of 055.

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## Beast

592257001 said:


> Dalian's got its hands full with at least 3 052D in various stages of completion right now. I doubt it will have time for the initial batch of 055.


Plus the carriers. All will be 055 will be settle by JN at the moment.

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## grey boy 2

055 DDG updates( credits to 星海055分析图) estimations LENGTH: 180m, WIDTH: 21m, helicopter deck length: 26m
.【055型导弹驱逐舰首舰建造跟踪】由10月11日卫片可测得055型导弹驱逐舰全长约180米，全宽约21米，直升机甲板长约26米。（供图：@河婆大脚ason007 ）

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## cnleio



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## english_man

The latest photo above appears to be very suspicious at it is trying to show us that there appear to be 3 055's at JN shipyard, where other photos show us just one 055. The genuine 055 is the one on the far left, where the bow is separated from the rest of the ship. There are also 2 other 055's with hull modules joined together shown to the right, and either side of an 052D.
One of the 055's is shown in the water, but if you look closely at the photo you can see that these duplicate 055's don't cast a shadow, unlike all the other vessels in the photo.
10,000+ tonne warships do not appear out of thin air................what's going on here, eh?.......paint shop mod?

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## dingyibvs

english_man said:


> The latest photo above appears to be very suspicious at it is trying to show us that there appear to be 3 055's at JN shipyard, where other photos show us just one 055. The genuine 055 is the one on the far left, where the bow is separated from the rest of the ship. There are also 2 other 055's with hull modules joined together shown to the right, and either side of an 052D.
> One of the 055's is shown in the water, but if you look closely at the photo you can see that these duplicate 055's don't cast a shadow, unlike all the other vessels in the photo.
> 10,000+ tonne warships do not appear out of thin air................what's going on here, eh?.......paint shop mod?



Thanks for your excellent investigative work, Mr. Sherlock 

For the less conspiracy theory minded guys, two 'joined" 055s were PS'd onto the photo for comparison with the 052Ds, giving people a sense of the relative size of the 055s vs. the 052Ds.

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## english_man

dingyibvs said:


> Thanks for your excellent investigative work, Mr. Sherlock
> 
> For the less conspiracy theory minded guys, two 'joined" 055s were PS'd onto the photo for comparison with the 052Ds, giving people a sense of the relative size of the 055s vs. the 052Ds.



Yes.i can see that........BUT that had ALREADY been done on the previous photo posted. There was no need to exaggerate the point with another photo with multiple photo shop images. 

Regards Mr Sherlock


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## cnleio

english_man said:


> The latest photo above appears to be very suspicious at it is trying to show us that there appear to be 3 055's at JN shipyard, where other photos show us just one 055. The genuine 055 is the one on the far left, where the bow is separated from the rest of the ship. There are also 2 other 055's with hull modules joined together shown to the right, and either side of an 052D.
> One of the 055's is shown in the water, but if you look closely at the photo you can see that these duplicate 055's don't cast a shadow, unlike all the other vessels in the photo.
> 10,000+ tonne warships do not appear out of thin air................what's going on here, eh?.......paint shop mod?


My friend, right now only one type055 DDG building in the shipyard ... above photo is to compare ship-size of type055 and type052D on the photo. Sorry my bad, i should add words to make the compare clear.

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## lcloo



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## grey boy 2

updates

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## cnleio

112x VLS, front 64 and back 48

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## grey boy 2

055 project started in 2014?

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## grey boy 2

1 tube accommodates 4 missiles are no longer a distant dream only, its now became a reality on the 055 DDG, SD-10A will be within the VLS as well
一坑四弹不是梦，SD-10A舰空导弹将融入055万吨大驱的垂直发射系统 




SD-10A舰空导弹将融入055万吨大驱的垂直发射系统

美国“改进型海麻雀”（ESSM）导弹以其50公里的射程和高机动性，成为了美国和西方海军目前最有效的中近距离防空反导武器。加之具有一坑四弹的集束装弹能力，使安装了MK41垂直发射系统的军舰，拥有了其他战舰4倍的载弹量，也就是说要实现32发备弹，诸如红旗-16、紫苑-15这样的导弹需要安装32个垂直发射单元，而使用“改进海麻雀”导弹的军舰则只需要一套标准的8联装MK41发射单元，极大地降低了占用舰上的空间和重量。

　　这种性能优秀的舰空导弹也一直是中国海军希望获得的弹种。目前，从珠海航展上，一款新型SD-10A面空（包括地空、舰空）导弹精彩亮相，相关尺寸和性能数据也正式公布。该弹50公里的射程超过目前现役的红旗-16中程舰空导弹，与“改进型海麻雀”（ESSM）导弹属于同一水准。





SD-10A (SAM) with a range of 50km, known as the Chinese “改进海麻雀”（ESSM）




SD-10A (SAM) displayed at the air show China 2016


　　SD-10A面对空导弹是由国产SD-10A中程空空导弹改进而来。SD-10A（“闪电”-10A）是PL-12（“霹雳”-12）空空导弹的出口型，也是中国最先进的主动雷达制导中程空空导弹之一。

　　作为空空导弹的SD-10A，直径为203毫米，重199公斤，长3934毫米，作战高度0~21千米，射程超过70公里，采用双推力固体发动机，最大速度超过4马赫，制导精度误差可达米级水准。可以全天候、全方位攻击高机动目标，为战机提供同时打击4个空中目标的作战能力。





　　图片：SD-10A空空导弹具有70千米的打击射程，是中国最先进的主动雷达制导中程空空导弹之一。

　　SD-10A面对空型过去叫DK-10A（“地空”-10A），这次改称面对空型，主要是指该导弹不仅仅是一种地空导弹，也是一种舰对空导弹。

　　其实，将空空导弹改进成地对空导弹或者是舰对空导弹，是本世纪地对空和舰对空导弹发展的一个潮流。美国海军的“海麻雀”和“改进海麻雀”导弹自不用说。还有美国海军陆战队的HUMRAAM、挪威利用AIM-120中程导弹研制成功的先进面空导弹系统NASAMS、法国在“米卡”导弹基础上研制的垂直发射“米卡”防空导弹系统、德国和以色列在本国空空导弹系统基础上研制的地对空导弹系统等。

　　这样做的好处是最大限度实现空空导弹、地空和舰空导弹的通用性，加上空空导弹拥有的高机动性，增加地空、舰空导弹的拦截成功率，这在拦截超音速反舰导弹方面具有更加积极的作用




近年来，中国也根据世界发展趋势，利用SD-10A空空导弹开始研制地空、舰空导弹系统。从公布的数据看，此次公布的SD-10A面对空导弹具有四方面特点：

　图片：珠海航展上对外公布的SD-10A面对空导弹性能参数表。

　　特点一：射程远

　　由于原始的SD-10A中程空空导弹本身就具有70公里以上的射程，使该弹在改进为地空、舰空导弹时也达到了50千米的射程，与美国“改进型海麻雀”射程相同，较红旗-16中程舰空导弹更远。

　　为什么细小的SD-10A具有比粗大的红旗-16更加远的射程呢？因为红旗-16的借鉴原型是苏联上世纪70、80年代的SA-N-7/12中程舰空导弹，其采用的是传统的低弹道模式，即导弹始终在目标下方，从下往上打，主要打击中高空目标，爬升段比较久，燃料消耗大。而SD-10A舰空导弹主要打击掠海飞行的中低空目标，采用高弹道方式，即将导弹首先发射到空中，再俯冲向下击毁目标，导弹燃料消耗少，进一步增大射程。




　图片：SD-10A地空型导弹性能介绍。

　　此外，SD-10A导弹根据面对空导弹的性能要求进行了全面改进。它采用了2段式结构，前段导引头和战斗部保留SD-10A的结构，弹径与其相同为203毫米。而后部替换为一个260毫米弹径的粗壮固体火箭发动机，使其机动性能更好，也保证了导弹具备足够的射程。

　　该弹射程50公里，作战高度30~20000米，可作为区域、要地和野战防空，并作为舰载区域防空导弹使用，能够倾斜发射，也能够垂直发射。

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## Tiqiu

No.2, which started June last year, has also showed up. No.3 has also started. The first batch of total 4 ships are built at the pace of starting one in every 6 months.

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## cnleio

Asia 9,000~10,000 ton air-defense DDG compare

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## MULUBJA

I am more interested in knowing what new technologies are incorporated than its weight.


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## IblinI

MULUBJA said:


> I am more interested in knowing what new technologies are incorporated than its weight.


It is all in the thread and on the pictures.


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## MULUBJA

YuChen said:


> It is all in the thread and on the pictures.


 
32 page is a too long read for that.


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## IblinI

MULUBJA said:


> 32 page is a too long read for that.


And you didn't see anything from the pictures?


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## MULUBJA

YuChen said:


> And you didn't see anything from the pictures?


 
I am not as expert as you who can know twchnology from picture.

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## IblinI

MULUBJA said:


> I am not as expert as you who can know twchnology from picture.


You don't need to be an expert to see it has a Dual band radar.


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## Deino

latest GE-images of both 055s !

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## IblinI

Deino said:


> latest GE-images of both 055s !
> 
> View attachment 357578
> View attachment 357579


5 Aegis destroyers in a single picture.


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## english_man

Some great photos posted here of developments at JN shipyard. In fact we all seem to of forgotten about the 052D class, now that the 055 is being built. Anyway, the Chinese are certainly putting in a great effort to build the 055 class, and it seems to be being built at quite an amazing speed, as obviously due to its large size, there is a lot of hard work to do. I wonder, do the Chinese naval shipyards work on a 24hr basis with shifts?.........or do they as like the naval shipyards in the West, where the workers go home at 5pm for tea?

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## cnleio

english_man said:


> Some great photos posted here of developments at JN shipyard. In fact we all seem to of forgotten about the 052D class, now that the 055 is being built. Anyway, the Chinese are certainly putting in a great effort to build the 055 class, and it seems to be being built at quite an amazing speed, as obviously due to its large size, there is a lot of hard work to do. I wonder, do the Chinese naval shipyards work on a 24hr basis with shifts?.........or do they as like the naval shipyards in the West, where the workers go home at 5pm for tea?


In China the normal after-work time is 5.30pm or 6.00pm ... working 7.5~8.0 hours per day, usually Chinese ppl leaving work place or office back home for tea / dinner it's about 6.30pm ~ 8.00pm. Sorry, in China ppl do harder than our West brothers, less funny in life. In BYD Auto sometimes i working 10 hours one day to do codes for MCU control, well im still lucky not in HuaWei, i hear there poor guys often doing 10~13 hours for their jobs (but if they send me offer, i like to go !). Except Saturday and Sunday, before 5pm we can't enjoy tea at home ... the only way is enjoying tea in our offices.

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## Beast

english_man said:


> Some great photos posted here of developments at JN shipyard. In fact we all seem to of forgotten about the 052D class, now that the 055 is being built. Anyway, the Chinese are certainly putting in a great effort to build the 055 class, and it seems to be being built at quite an amazing speed, as obviously due to its large size, there is a lot of hard work to do. I wonder, do the Chinese naval shipyards work on a 24hr basis with shifts?.........or do they as like the naval shipyards in the West, where the workers go home at 5pm for tea?


Chinese workers involved in building major national project basically works non stop. Other than going toilet, eat and sleep. They continue non stop working. Recently, I watch the video of interview of LM-5(CZ-5) rocket team. Who designed and build the rocket. One lady was forced to delay few times of her marriage. Another one missed the first child born. Another forced to walk 100km away from home in order to reach company in time for start work.
They don't do it for money. They have no complaints but becos they are part of a major national project that will put China on the world map and on par with some of the world best. Contributed their part for the rising of China in modern world. That is all they wanted in return.

You can imagine the pride of those workers being involved building China first domestic fully build aircraft carrier. That make them part of the team that put PLAN as one of the most powerful navy in the 21th century. They basically work non stop.

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## lcloo

It is true. Days and night, works never stopped even in bad weather.

example-
Type 901AOR was launched around midnight under heavy rain in December last year.

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## cirr

lcloo said:


> It is true. Days and night, works never stopped even in bad weather.
> 
> example-
> Type 901AOR was launched around midnight under heavy rain in December last year.
> View attachment 357733



More to do with timings of the tide. 



Deino said:


> latest GE-images of both 055s !
> 
> View attachment 357578
> View attachment 357579



Steel cut, sections, segments and modules made for 4 055s at JN

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## grey boy 2

The 2nd section connection has begun (second 055DDG)
055大型驱逐舰是中国最新和最强的万吨级战舰，目前正同时开工两艘，首艘已经进入船台建造上层建筑。最新曝光图片显示，第二艘055大驱分段已在合拢，两艘明年或都将下水。（来源：@乌龙防务评论 @浩汉防务 @ironcurtain）

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## lcloo

On top of bow deck of 055, No.2 unit is hidden in background of 2nd and 3rd photo. Second photo is ground level of the "assembly structure" for first unit of 055.













One more older photo for location of the first photo above.

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## grey boy 2



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## beijingwalker

*China ready to launch supersize 10,000-ton destroyer, report says*

By Elizabeth Shim



| Dec. 9, 2016 at 2:32 PM 
HONG KONG, Dec. 9 (UPI) -- China may not be far from launching a 10,000-ton Type 055 destroyer and building a semi-submersible ship.

According to Hong Kong news service UDN.com, satellite photos indicate Beijing is nearing completion on a supersize destroyer at Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai.

The warship could be launched before the end of 2016, according to the report published Friday.

Hong Kong-based military commentator Liang Guoliang said the photos show officers from the Zhongchuan Group, and the images indicate construction was reaching its final phase in preparation for a first-time launch.

There appear to be two Type 055 destroyers at the shipyard. At least one ship was equipped with engines, control devices and radar, Liang said.

The destroyer can displace about 12,000 tons and is the largest warship of its class to be manufactured in Asia, South Korean news agency Yonhap reported.

The UDN report stated the destroyer has 96 vertical launching system grids and a helipad capable of accommodating large military helicopters.

The Type 055 can carry YJ-100 long-range anti-ship cruise missiles, anti-submarine missiles and anti-aircraft missiles.

Other Chinese warships in active service include the Type 051 and 052 destroyers.

China is also making swift progress on the construction of ultra-large semi-submersible ships.

Guangzhou Shipyard International had built a semi-submersible ship at Guangzhou Shipyard on Thursday.

The ship named "Xinguanghua" was delivered to Zhongyuan Shipping the owner, according to the report.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...0000-ton-destroyer-report-says/6701481311591/

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## cirr

12000-ton.

At less than 900 million USD a unit, China can easily afford 50 Type 055 destroyers and variants.

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## Daniel808

cirr said:


> 12000-ton.
> 
> At less than 900 million USD a unit, China can easily afford 50 Type 055 destroyers and variants.



The Deadly Combination of China's Shipyards Efficient System with China's Industrial Capability and Economic Power

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## IblinI



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## 21stCentury

These will be the backbone of the Chinese navy. And add a few 100k+ ton flattops by 2025.

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## Desertfalcon

I think when they start to go over 10,000 tons, it's time to start calling them a _Cruiser. _


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## S10

I think they should build branch out from 055 and build two variants. A smaller ship around 9,000 ton full displacement as general duty destroyer, while a larger 13,000 ton hull with 128 VLS cells and 155mm main gun as carrier escort cruiser.


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## cirr

The world's largest facility for building nuclear submarines is near completion.

Starting in 2017, the giant factory will make SSNs and SSBNs like sausages.

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## My-Analogous

cirr said:


> The world's largest facility for building nuclear submarines is near completion.
> 
> Starting in 2017, the giant factory will make SSNs and SSBNs like sausages.



So our eight will be constructed here


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## Akasa

My-Analogous said:


> So our eight will be constructed here



No; these facilities are for Type 095/096 nuclear powered vessels. The S20 submarines will most likely be constructed at Wuchang Shipyard.

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## Deino

*WHY ON EARTH AGAIN A NEW THREAD ????????*
*
Deino*

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## english_man

I came here to find some new information about the 055 Destroyer............but then found out it was all about submarines. Come on people surely its not that hard to put your posts under the correct topic heading?


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## samsara

cirr said:


> 12000-ton.
> 
> *At less than 900 million USD a unit*, China can easily afford 50 Type 055 destroyers and variants.


*At USD 7.5 billion a piece* [based on April 2016's figure, incl. R&D; "Zumwalt-class destroyer" at Wiki], at its good days a ‘Zumwalt-class’ DDG 1000 destroyer with 14,564 tons of displacement and speed over 30 knots still holds the many records that no other one, incl. the Type 055, ever comes close.

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## grey boy 2

New CG of 055 DDG

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## Place Of Space

S10 said:


> I think they should build branch out from 055 and build two variants. A smaller ship around 9,000 ton full displacement as general duty destroyer, while a larger 13,000 ton hull with 128 VLS cells and 155mm main gun as carrier escort cruiser.



I recommend you as the chief of PLA General Armament Department.

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## Salty_Waters

For those guys with access to Dalian Shipyard (Dalian Old), have a closer look to the open storrage space next to the big drydock, that is occupied by a large tanker right now. Modules of minimum one 055, at least to where assembled there rite now. once the big tanker is ready to launch, the final assembly of both Dalian initial 055 cruisers will take place in that dock. 

Modules should be visible from the end of the finger peer 400 meters southeast.

Once I have privilege to post images, I will draw sketch of exact position.

So If you like it or not, minimum 3 very likely 4 type 055 cruisers are on building way rite now.

I know you need hard facts, so maybe you remember that post later on, when evidence is emerging


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## english_man

Salty_Waters said:


> For those guys with access to Dalian Shipyard (Dalian Old), have a closer look to the open storrage space next to the big drydock, that is occupied by a large tanker right now. Modules of minimum one 055, at least to where assembled there rite now. once the big tanker is ready to launch, the final assembly of both Dalian initial 055 cruisers will take place in that dock.
> 
> Modules should be visible from the end of the finger peer 400 meters southeast.
> 
> Once I have privilege to post images, I will draw sketch of exact position.
> 
> So If you like it or not, minimum 3 very likely 4 type 055 cruisers are on building way rite now.
> 
> I know you need hard facts, so maybe you remember that post later on, when evidence is emerging



Hi.......i notice from your recent posts, you keep making claims, but then say you cannot show evidence as you do not have the rights! ...........my question to you is what is your occupation then?.............and who and why do you have to get permission from?
Anyway, it would be good if we do see evidence that Dalian is building the 055 Cruiser as well.


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## Salty_Waters

english_man said:


> Hi.......i notice from your recent posts, you keep making claims, but then say you cannot show evidence as you do not have the rights! ...........my question to you is what is your occupation then?.............and who and why do you have to get permission from?
> Anyway, it would be good if we do see evidence that Dalian is building the 055 Cruiser as well.



My recent posts? you mean the only one before? not sure if you take me for someone else? well I would be happy to see my recent posts, the one you quoted was my very second in that forum at all. But I drawed your attention... I keep making claims? Well not to get to much into semantics, but to keep making claims one has to make a claim before... .

And as you can see so far, I made a handfull of comments until now. The forum rules as far as I understand are not permitting me to post images or links as far as I recieved a certain status (introduced myself in members area and so on), as a member, you should know that.

To let me get things straight:

According to Mulan Lake CV-mockup/fire fighting training centre, I just presented my thought. If you classify this as a claim, ok. Feel free to comment on that. I think, that's something pretty normal for expert forums. Feel free to tell me why my thoughts are wrong.

According to Dalian, I have not written that I hold evidence to present. I named the location where locals should put their cameras on. To put a little extra claim for you and others to chew on, first segments for 055 where laid down in Dalian in late summer 16. But I will not give any evidence on that. I will give an google image with exact location where to look at. That's the only thing I promised. For the rest I just said mark my words.


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## english_man

Salty_Waters said:


> My recent posts? you mean the only one before? not sure if you take me for someone else? well I would be happy to see my recent posts, the one you quoted was my very second in that forum at all. But I drawed your attention... I keep making claims? Well not to get to much into semantics, but to keep making claims one has to make a claim before... .
> 
> And as you can see so far, I made a handfull of comments until now. The forum rules as far as I understand are not permitting me to post images or links as far as I recieved a certain status (introduced myself in members area and so on), as a member, you should know that.
> 
> To let me get things straight:
> 
> According to Mulan Lake CV-mockup/fire fighting training centre, I just presented my thought. If you classify this as a claim, ok. Feel free to comment on that. I think, that's something pretty normal for expert forums. Feel free to tell me why my thoughts are wrong.
> 
> According to Dalian, I have not written that I hold evidence to present. I named the location where locals should put their cameras on. To put a little extra claim for you and others to chew on, first segments for 055 where laid down in Dalian in late summer 16. But I will not give any evidence on that. I will give an google image with exact location where to look at. That's the only thing I promised. For the rest I just said mark my words.



Thanks 'Salty_Waters' for your reply, though you didn't need to write an essay. 
We all look forward to your future posts.


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## Salty_Waters

Well, as I promised, I want to share my idea where and why to find the 055 hull(s) in Dalian.

When first rumors came up, that both Dalian Old and Jiangnan will be building Type 055 I was supprised why Dalian? They have enough work with 052D. Then I was asking myself where in Dalian.

The Type 055 will exceed 180 meters, if you take seriously all anouncements. And if you see the google images of Jiangnan, that size is plausibel ( at least with 12k+ tons) 180 minimum is good.

Where in Dalian Old is enough space to build one, or like in Jiangnan two initial units? The building ways for 052D, as i measured them at wikimapia, are at least 175 meters. That is a bit to short to fit in 055 and it is way to short if you need space to work.

If Dalian is building the 055 the same way like Jiangnan, as modules (assuming they are going to apply that technique) you need a level pre assembly area and high crane capacity.

--> minimum 185 Meter Dock, + level area + powerfull crane. Looking for that features, only one spot can be available. When I saw google image of Dalian, there are only two reasonable spots. One is occupied by CV-17. So only spot that matches perfectly is the long drydock in Dalian Old.

A friend of mine told me, the dock is occupied by a tanker, that is build right now. I dunno if he is rite or wrong. But if that dock is occupied by a tanker and assembly work of 055 has started at Dalian Old, something that i read last year(sorry that I can't provide where I read it), I would store all premanufactured modules as close to the dock as possible, so that final assembly can be done in few month once the dock is empty.

I think that the modules should be visible from Dalian Port peer, if the tanker is not to high.

why two units? because it is not reasonable from an economic point of view, to occupy such a big dock with one single 055 project. That's why both initial units ( if there are two initial units) can/or let's say should be assembled in parallel in that dock.

I encircled the module store area where to pay attention at.







That is a claim, but in my view the most profound, when discussing 055 in Dalian.
Hey, at least I can be wrong. But having a closer look there can be a good idea.

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## Pepsi Cola

@Salty_Waters I don't know about your argument, but your writings sure are exciting to read


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## Deino

Salty_Waters said:


> ...
> 
> I encircled the module store area where to pay attention at.
> 
> 
> View attachment 366601
> 
> 
> That is a claim, but in my view the most profound, when discussing 055 in Dalian.
> Hey, at least I can be wrong. But having a closer look there can be a good idea.




Here You are ...!!??


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818316940972175360

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## IblinI

Deino said:


> Here You are ...!!??
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818316940972175360


amazing, didn't expect that,keep them rolling out

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## 52051

According to a mod from CJDBY who work in China ship industry corp, the first batch PLA ordered is eight 055 DDGs, so just expect more to come in the near future.

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## Salty_Waters

Deino said:


> Here You are ...!!??
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818316940972175360



Thank you Deino. I saw it in SDF this morning and I couldn't help but smile a bit, because I didn't exspected to get the proof for my hypothesis that fast.

So big credits to *dafeng cao*

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## english_man

Salty_Waters said:


> Thank you Deino. I saw it in SDF this morning and I couldn't help but smile a bit, because I didn't exspected to get the proof for my hypothesis that fast.
> 
> So big credits to *dafeng cao*



Yes....well done, that was quick in getting confirmation of your hypothesis! 

Just checking, but can members here, from that slightly grainy photo, actually confirm that vessel does appear to be an 055. Thanks..........if so then that is great, and as @Deino said i'am surprised as well, as i expected JN to finish their 055 first, and then see how the Chinese Navy got on with it before starting parallel production at another shipyard.
Maybe, the Chinese Navy want to see this vessel a.s.a.p. just like us Navy enthusiasts.

If so then the Chinese Naval shipyards are really getting into their stride now, with batch production of their surface combatants. They must be pretty confident that the systems for the 055 will work, so i guess the work at Wuhan with the mock up helped quite a bit. All we have to do now is wait for the first 055 to be launched to see how it really is going to look........and hopefully that should be later this year.
I wonder why it took so long before we got an image of an 055 at Dalian?..........as we knew of JN's first 055 quite a while back now.

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## grey boy 2

updates





卫星大连那张确定是055，而且旧消息首批4或8可能要变，说是等着看，难道是是要暴兵更多艘？
关于002，原话是：去年（2016）就动了，但是这个动了，是和大连那个差不多，要么是“实验”（不是试验，也不是模拟，自己想）分段，要么确实是为仪式准备的分段，毕竟某些位置确实不改的。但是002这个事，我的渠道是真的没发现已经敲定。准确的说如果现在敲定了的话绝对是蒸汽弹射。因为这个是486签了的，目前就看要不要闹到“586”手上。-以上
我个人理解为，002不会变更的“基础分段”可能已造好，至于蒸电弹是否定下来并相应的是否要改设计还没消息。

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## 星海军事

english_man said:


> Yes....well done, that was quick in getting confirmation of your hypothesis!
> 
> Just checking, but can members here, from that slightly grainy photo, actually confirm that vessel does appear to be an 055. Thanks..........if so then that is great, and as @Deino said i'am surprised as well, as i expected JN to finish their 055 first, and then see how the Chinese Navy got on with it before starting parallel production at another shipyard.
> Maybe, the Chinese Navy want to see this vessel a.s.a.p. just like us Navy enthusiasts.
> 
> If so then the Chinese Naval shipyards are really getting into their stride now, with batch production of their surface combatants. They must be pretty confident that the systems for the 055 will work, so i guess the work at Wuhan with the mock up helped quite a bit. All we have to do now is wait for the first 055 to be launched to see how it really is going to look........and hopefully that should be later this year.
> I wonder why it took so long before we got an image of an 055 at Dalian?..........as we knew of JN's first 055 quite a while back now.


It is Type 055. 

The sketch posted in CDF is based on an image of my source.

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## rcrmj

52051 said:


> According to a mod from CJDBY who work in China ship industry corp, the first batch PLA ordered is eight 055 DDGs, so just expect more to come in the near future.


you are quicker than me``lol, and he also said the second batch will be more than 8



english_man said:


> Yes....well done, that was quick in getting confirmation of your hypothesis!
> 
> Just checking, but can members here, from that slightly grainy photo, actually confirm that vessel does appear to be an 055. Thanks..........if so then that is great, and as @Deino said i'am surprised as well, as i expected JN to finish their 055 first, and then see how the Chinese Navy got on with it before starting parallel production at another shipyard.
> Maybe, the Chinese Navy want to see this vessel a.s.a.p. just like us Navy enthusiasts.
> 
> If so then the Chinese Naval shipyards are really getting into their stride now, with batch production of their surface combatants. They must be pretty confident that the systems for the 055 will work, so i guess the work at Wuhan with the mock up helped quite a bit. All we have to do now is wait for the first 055 to be launched to see how it really is going to look........and hopefully that should be later this year.
> I wonder why it took so long before we got an image of an 055 at Dalian?..........as we knew of JN's first 055 quite a while back now.


it takes time to built up necessary equipment and infra, and parts need to be ordered from suppliers```mid of last year, I know they ordered 4 sets of vital parts from suppliers a year ago, and they were for the initial four 055s````

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## terranMarine

Chinese battle groups are on its way in the making

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## Salty_Waters

星海军事 said:


> It is Type 055.
> 
> The sketch posted in CDF is based on an image of my source.



I would be happy to see the original image. Because I have the strong believe, that this modules belong to two units. 

As I stated before, from an economic point of view, the occupation of the building dock for just one 055 is senseless an extremly expensive. The other option to build a civilian vessel or an other military class side by side with the 055 is a bad and risky option for the shipyard.

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## 星海军事

Salty_Waters said:


> As I stated before, from an economic point of view, the occupation of the building dock for just one 055 is senseless an extremly expensive. The other option to build a civilian vessel or an other military class side by side with the 055 is a bad and risky option for the shipyard.


It's a fair guess


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## Deino

Look, both Type 005 DDGs in the background.

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## grey boy 2

updates

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## cnleio

Add helo hangar, type055 can equip 2x anti-sub helo

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## ChineseTiger1986

Type 055

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## Place Of Space

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Type 055
> 
> View attachment 375603
> 
> 
> View attachment 375604
> 
> 
> View attachment 375605
> 
> 
> View attachment 375606
> 
> 
> View attachment 375607
> 
> 
> View attachment 375608
> 
> 
> View attachment 375609



How many missiles it can take and expend up to?


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## 52051

Place Of Space said:


> How many missiles it can take and expend up to?



They have 112 silos, but 055's missile silos are quite flexible in design, one silo can accomodate up to 4 missiles of various types.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Place Of Space said:


> How many missiles it can take and expend up to?



I think the consensus is 112 units for the Type 055A and 128 units for the Type 055B.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The official render of the Type 055A.

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## monitor

*A credible source suggests the number of first batch 055 is more than 8.*

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## 帅的一匹

monitor said:


> *A credible source suggests the number of first batch 055 is more than 8.*


Maybe BD navy shall buy two 052D in the next 10 years? Around 1 billions USD per. Or 054A?

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## monitor

wanglaokan said:


> Maybe BD navy shall buy two 052D in the next 10 years? Around 1 billions USD per. Or 054A?



Initially we must buy something like Type 54A latter Type 52D . we already bought a variant of Type 56 corvette in our Navy modernization drive .

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## truthseeker2010

wanglaokan said:


> Maybe BD navy shall buy two 052D in the next 10 years? Around 1 billions USD per. Or 054A?



what would be the cost of 055?


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## 帅的一匹

truthseeker2010 said:


> what would be the cost of 055?


Sorry I need to correct the price tag: the price PLAN get 052d Destroyer is 500 millions USD, and 800 millions USD for type 055 Cruiser.

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## truthseeker2010

wanglaokan said:


> Sorry I need to correct the price tag: the price PLAN get 052d Destroyer is 500 millions USD, and 800 millions USD for type 055 Cruiser.



$800m for 10,000 ton ship, IMO it would be at least $1 billion


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## pzfz

Despite having fewer VLS than the KDXIII, I believe the Type 055 will be the most heavily armed ship in the water thanks to quad-packing.

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## ChineseTiger1986

pzfz said:


> Despite having fewer VLS than the KDXIII, I believe the Type 055 will be the most heavily armed ship in the water thanks to quad-packing.



The KDXIII only uses the MK 41 and the watered down K VLS, and South Korea cannot afford to acquire more than threes of these white elephants.

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## Penguin

KD-III_ / Sejong the Great_-class destroyer

1 × 5 inch (127 mm/L62) Mk-45 Mod 4 naval gun
1 × 30 mm Goalkeeper CIWS
1 × RAM Block 1 CIWS (21 ready missiles)

80-cell Mk 41 VLS
SM-2 Block IIIA/IIIB/IV

48-cell K-VLS
32 × Hyunmoo III land attack cruise missiles
16 × K-ASROC Red Shark in (VLS)

4 × 4 SSM-700K Hae Sung anti-ship missiles
2 × 3 K745 LW Blue Shark ASW torpedo launchers
2 Super Lynx or SH-60 Seahawk helicopters
So, that's 128 VLS cells plus 16 deck mounted SSM (compared to 112 cells and no deck mounted SSM on 055). There is absolutely no reason why the Mk41 VLS couldn't or wouldn't be used for quad-packed ESSM. Also, with dual milimeter-wave and IIR seekers, and the ability to be quad-packed in either the domestic K-VLS or other conventional vertical launch system such as the MK.41 VLS, the South Korean Sea Bow SAM is close analogue of the Block II variant of Raytheon ESSM and will subsitute for the ESSM's role in lo-mid range Air Defense in the ROK Navy.

http://imgur.com/AMCvejc
http://imgur.com/XybJoBZ
http://imgur.com/qc8uVF5
http://themess.net/forum/military-d...ls-configuration-for-sea-bow-saam-interceptor

In August 2016, press reports revealed that South Korea was considering adding the SM-3 interceptor to its _Sejong the Great_-class ships to enable them to perform ballistic missile defense. The addition of SM-3s to the ships may require software and computer hardware upgrades. The following month, Aegis manufacturer Lockheed Martin confirmed the next three _Sejong the Great_ vessels will be capable of performing "integrated air and missile defense" (IAMD) to supplement U.S. Army ground-based missile interceptors on the peninsula, likely being outfitted with the SM-3. While the first three destroyers are fitted with Aegis Baseline 7 based on older proprietary computers that can't carry out IAMD operations, the following three will be fitted with the Baseline 9 version of the Aegis Combat System that combines modern computing architecture to allow the AN/SPY-1D(v) radar to perform air warfare and BMD missions at the same time.

On 10 December 2013 the ROKN confirmed ordering three more vessels on the same class [for a total of 6 by 2027]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sejong_the_Great-class_destroyer
http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...kdx-iii-aegis-destroyers-to-six-by-2027-.html

*S. Korea to deploy new surface-to-air missiles for Aegis destroyers *
SEOUL, June 12 (Yonhap) -- South Korea will arm its Aegis destroyers with the surface-to-air Standard Missile 6 (SM-6) starting 2016 as part of efforts to bolster its missile defense against North Korean threats, a senior government official said Wednesday.
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2013/06/12/37/0301000000AEN20130612004900315F.HTML

*SM-6 Cleared for International Sale; Australia, Japan, Korea Could Be Early Customers (January 10, 2017)*
Raytheon’s Standard Missile 6 has been cleared by the Pentagon for international sales and a trio of potential Pacific nations are likely the first customers.
SM-6 — currently in limited initial production – is a key weapon in the both the Navy’s emerging distributed lethality concept and the service’s Naval Integrated Fire Control Counter-Air (NIFC-CA) for its ability to strike air, surface and limited ballistic missile targets.
Of the five international Aegis combat system operators, three are in the process to have the upgraded combat system to field the SM-6 – Australia, Japan and South Korea
Korea’s three planned new Sejong the Great-class guided missile destroyers are also being built with Baseline 9 and will also field the SM-3 ballistic missile defense interceptor.
While the three countries all could field the SM-6 its unclear if each country will be allowed to use all three modes of the missile – anti-air warfare, anti-surface and a limited ballistic missile defense capability.
While the missiles will all have the inherent capability for all three missions, the U.S. government will determine which of those features will be activated for international sales
https://news.usni.org/2017/01/10/sm...al-sale-australia-japan-korea-early-customers
http://navaltoday.com/2017/01/11/ra...h-australia-korea-and-japan-as-likely-buyers/

As per the fourth unit, KD-II _Chungmugong Yi Sun-sin_-class destroyer have 64 cells worth of VLS besides deck mounted SSMs.

Mk 41 32 cells 

K-VLS 32 cells

1x 21 RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM)
8 Harpoon or SSM-700K Haeseong Anti-ship missile
1x 30 mm Goalkeeper close-in weapon system, 

1x Mk 45 Mod 4 127 mm gun, 

2x triple 324 mm anti-submarine torpedo tubes.
Super Lynx or SH-60
In principle, these can carry the same weapons in the VLSs as KDIII.

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## pzfz

Isn't the Chinese VLS capable of quad-packing more than just an ESSM-sized missile? meaning bigger missiles?


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## ChineseTiger1986

pzfz said:


> Isn't the Chinese VLS capable of quad-packing more than just an ESSM-sized missile? meaning bigger missiles?



Yep, it is bigger than the MK 57. Therefore, it is more capable to quad-pack longer range missiles.

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## 帅的一匹

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The KDXIII only uses the MK 41 and the watered down K VLS, and South Korea cannot afford to acquire more than threes of these white elephants.


Who is South Korea?



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, it is bigger than the MK 57. Therefore, it is more capable to quad-pack longer range missiles.


Would it be possible we launch ballistic missile on Type 055?

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## ChineseTiger1986

wanglaokan said:


> Who is South Korea?



They rely on the US technologies.



wanglaokan said:


> Would it be possible we launch ballistic missile on Type 055?



It can launch the cruise missiles with the HGV warheads, so it is even more lethal than the regular ballistic missiles.

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## 52051

Penguin said:


> KD-III_ / Sejong the Great_-class destroyer
> 
> 1 × 5 inch (127 mm/L62) Mk-45 Mod 4 naval gun
> 1 × 30 mm Goalkeeper CIWS
> 1 × RAM Block 1 CIWS (21 ready missiles)
> 
> 80-cell Mk 41 VLS
> SM-2 Block IIIA/IIIB/IV
> 
> 48-cell K-VLS
> 32 × Hyunmoo III land attack cruise missiles
> 16 × K-ASROC Red Shark in (VLS)
> 
> 4 × 4 SSM-700K Hae Sung anti-ship missiles
> 2 × 3 K745 LW Blue Shark ASW torpedo launchers
> 2 Super Lynx or SH-60 Seahawk helicopters
> So, that's 128 VLS cells plus 16 deck mounted SSM (compared to 112 cells and no deck mounted SSM on 055). There is absolutely no reason why the Mk41 VLS couldn't or wouldn't be used for quad-packed ESSM. Also, with dual milimeter-wave and IIR seekers, and the ability to be quad-packed in either the domestic K-VLS or other conventional vertical launch system such as the MK.41 VLS, the South Korean Sea Bow SAM is close analogue of the Block II variant of Raytheon ESSM and will subsitute for the ESSM's role in lo-mid range Air Defense in the ROK Navy.
> 
> http://imgur.com/AMCvejc
> http://imgur.com/XybJoBZ
> http://imgur.com/qc8uVF5
> http://themess.net/forum/military-d...ls-configuration-for-sea-bow-saam-interceptor
> 
> In August 2016, press reports revealed that South Korea was considering adding the SM-3 interceptor to its _Sejong the Great_-class ships to enable them to perform ballistic missile defense. The addition of SM-3s to the ships may require software and computer hardware upgrades. The following month, Aegis manufacturer Lockheed Martin confirmed the next three _Sejong the Great_ vessels will be capable of performing "integrated air and missile defense" (IAMD) to supplement U.S. Army ground-based missile interceptors on the peninsula, likely being outfitted with the SM-3. While the first three destroyers are fitted with Aegis Baseline 7 based on older proprietary computers that can't carry out IAMD operations, the following three will be fitted with the Baseline 9 version of the Aegis Combat System that combines modern computing architecture to allow the AN/SPY-1D(v) radar to perform air warfare and BMD missions at the same time.
> 
> On 10 December 2013 the ROKN confirmed ordering three more vessels on the same class [for a total of 6 by 2027]
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sejong_the_Great-class_destroyer
> http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...kdx-iii-aegis-destroyers-to-six-by-2027-.html
> 
> *S. Korea to deploy new surface-to-air missiles for Aegis destroyers *
> SEOUL, June 12 (Yonhap) -- South Korea will arm its Aegis destroyers with the surface-to-air Standard Missile 6 (SM-6) starting 2016 as part of efforts to bolster its missile defense against North Korean threats, a senior government official said Wednesday.
> http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2013/06/12/37/0301000000AEN20130612004900315F.HTML
> 
> *SM-6 Cleared for International Sale; Australia, Japan, Korea Could Be Early Customers (January 10, 2017)*
> Raytheon’s Standard Missile 6 has been cleared by the Pentagon for international sales and a trio of potential Pacific nations are likely the first customers.
> SM-6 — currently in limited initial production – is a key weapon in the both the Navy’s emerging distributed lethality concept and the service’s Naval Integrated Fire Control Counter-Air (NIFC-CA) for its ability to strike air, surface and limited ballistic missile targets.
> Of the five international Aegis combat system operators, three are in the process to have the upgraded combat system to field the SM-6 – Australia, Japan and South Korea
> Korea’s three planned new Sejong the Great-class guided missile destroyers are also being built with Baseline 9 and will also field the SM-3 ballistic missile defense interceptor.
> While the three countries all could field the SM-6 its unclear if each country will be allowed to use all three modes of the missile – anti-air warfare, anti-surface and a limited ballistic missile defense capability.
> While the missiles will all have the inherent capability for all three missions, the U.S. government will determine which of those features will be activated for international sales
> https://news.usni.org/2017/01/10/sm...al-sale-australia-japan-korea-early-customers
> http://navaltoday.com/2017/01/11/ra...h-australia-korea-and-japan-as-likely-buyers/
> 
> As per the fourth unit, KD-II _Chungmugong Yi Sun-sin_-class destroyer have 64 cells worth of VLS besides deck mounted SSMs.
> 
> Mk 41 32 cells
> 
> K-VLS 32 cells
> 
> 1x 21 RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM)
> 8 Harpoon or SSM-700K Haeseong Anti-ship missile
> 1x 30 mm Goalkeeper close-in weapon system,
> 
> 1x Mk 45 Mod 4 127 mm gun,
> 
> 2x triple 324 mm anti-submarine torpedo tubes.
> Super Lynx or SH-60
> In principle, these can carry the same weapons in the VLSs as KDIII.



Most of the missile silos in KDIII has been empty, and there are lots integration problem with their system.

Basically KDIII now has the same or lower combat power than China's 054 FFG.

Thats what happen for US's small allies when most of their military techs are from US.

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## Penguin

52051 said:


> Most of the missile silos in KDIII has been empty, and there are lots integration problem with their system.


Says who? > indicate relevant authoritative sources please.

It doesn't matter per se if missile silo's are empty now. Not being the US navy and not facing significant immediate threats from North Korea, why would all cellos need to be filled at all times? Is that necessary? Is it even common? Do you have any idea whether this is the case for European navies e.g Dutch, German, Norwegian, Danish and Spanish ships? Further, it would susprise me very much if there were any problems with integrating US Mk41 VLS with US missiles and a US AEGIS combat system.



52051 said:


> Basically KDIII now has the same or lower combat power than China's 054 FFG.


Really? Even if you discounted all South Korean equipment, there is no reason for the Mk41/Standard SM2 IIIA/B and IV/Aegis combo to not function with AN/SPY-1D(V) multi-function radar and AN/SPG-62 fire control radar and have only 32 SM2s in 80 cells. And there should also not be any trouble using the 127mm gun. Likewise the 21 cell RAM. Or SH-60s. Also, I doubt integrating Goalkeeper instead of Phalanx is very challenging.



52051 said:


> Thats what happen for US's small allies when most of their military techs are from US.


That *may* be the case for KD-III, but certainly is not the case with other destroyers, which are packed with European systems, notably from Thales and BAE Systems



52051 said:


> They have 112 silos, but 055's missile silos are quite flexible in design, one silo can accomodate up to 4 missiles of various types.


Which Chinese missiles specifically can be quad packed? And which currently are?


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## Brainsucker

are we still talking about 055 here? I'm surprise that now we talk about a Korean Destroyer. Unless I'm at a wrong thread

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## Penguin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, it is bigger than the MK 57. Therefore, it is more capable to quad-pack longer range missiles.








Which of these missiles quadpacked currently or in near future?



Brainsucker said:


> are we still talking about 055 here? I'm surprise that now we talk about a Korean Destroyer. Unless I'm at a wrong thread


See #535, #536, #541, #542: some compare 055 with - and make claims about - the KDIII. Which may or may not be correct. And so that becomes part of the discussion, if you don't mind.





Type-052D DDG vertical launch system (VLS) model
http://errymath.blogspot.com/2014/06/type-052d-multi-purposed-destroyer.html#.WKCFPX_-WYA

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## cnleio

Type055














Penguin said:


> KD-III_ / Sejong the Great_-class destroyer
> 
> 1 × 5 inch (127 mm/L62) Mk-45 Mod 4 naval gun
> 1 × 30 mm Goalkeeper CIWS
> 1 × RAM Block 1 CIWS (21 ready missiles)
> 
> 80-cell Mk 41 VLS
> SM-2 Block IIIA/IIIB/IV
> 
> 48-cell K-VLS
> 32 × Hyunmoo III land attack cruise missiles
> 16 × K-ASROC Red Shark in (VLS)
> 
> 4 × 4 SSM-700K Hae Sung anti-ship missiles
> 2 × 3 K745 LW Blue Shark ASW torpedo launchers
> 2 Super Lynx or SH-60 Seahawk helicopters
> So, that's 128 VLS cells plus 16 deck mounted SSM (compared to 112 cells and no deck mounted SSM on 055). There is absolutely no reason why the Mk41 VLS couldn't or wouldn't be used for quad-packed ESSM. Also, with dual milimeter-wave and IIR seekers, and the ability to be quad-packed in either the domestic K-VLS or other conventional vertical launch system such as the MK.41 VLS, the South Korean Sea Bow SAM is close analogue of the Block II variant of Raytheon ESSM and will subsitute for the ESSM's role in lo-mid range Air Defense in the ROK Navy.
> 
> http://imgur.com/AMCvejc
> http://imgur.com/XybJoBZ
> http://imgur.com/qc8uVF5
> http://themess.net/forum/military-d...ls-configuration-for-sea-bow-saam-interceptor
> 
> In August 2016, press reports revealed that South Korea was considering adding the SM-3 interceptor to its _Sejong the Great_-class ships to enable them to perform ballistic missile defense. The addition of SM-3s to the ships may require software and computer hardware upgrades. The following month, Aegis manufacturer Lockheed Martin confirmed the next three _Sejong the Great_ vessels will be capable of performing "integrated air and missile defense" (IAMD) to supplement U.S. Army ground-based missile interceptors on the peninsula, likely being outfitted with the SM-3. While the first three destroyers are fitted with Aegis Baseline 7 based on older proprietary computers that can't carry out IAMD operations, the following three will be fitted with the Baseline 9 version of the Aegis Combat System that combines modern computing architecture to allow the AN/SPY-1D(v) radar to perform air warfare and BMD missions at the same time.
> 
> On 10 December 2013 the ROKN confirmed ordering three more vessels on the same class [for a total of 6 by 2027]
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sejong_the_Great-class_destroyer
> http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...kdx-iii-aegis-destroyers-to-six-by-2027-.html
> 
> *S. Korea to deploy new surface-to-air missiles for Aegis destroyers *
> SEOUL, June 12 (Yonhap) -- South Korea will arm its Aegis destroyers with the surface-to-air Standard Missile 6 (SM-6) starting 2016 as part of efforts to bolster its missile defense against North Korean threats, a senior government official said Wednesday.
> http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2013/06/12/37/0301000000AEN20130612004900315F.HTML
> 
> *SM-6 Cleared for International Sale; Australia, Japan, Korea Could Be Early Customers (January 10, 2017)*
> Raytheon’s Standard Missile 6 has been cleared by the Pentagon for international sales and a trio of potential Pacific nations are likely the first customers.
> SM-6 — currently in limited initial production – is a key weapon in the both the Navy’s emerging distributed lethality concept and the service’s Naval Integrated Fire Control Counter-Air (NIFC-CA) for its ability to strike air, surface and limited ballistic missile targets.
> Of the five international Aegis combat system operators, three are in the process to have the upgraded combat system to field the SM-6 – Australia, Japan and South Korea
> Korea’s three planned new Sejong the Great-class guided missile destroyers are also being built with Baseline 9 and will also field the SM-3 ballistic missile defense interceptor.
> While the three countries all could field the SM-6 its unclear if each country will be allowed to use all three modes of the missile – anti-air warfare, anti-surface and a limited ballistic missile defense capability.
> While the missiles will all have the inherent capability for all three missions, the U.S. government will determine which of those features will be activated for international sales
> https://news.usni.org/2017/01/10/sm...al-sale-australia-japan-korea-early-customers
> http://navaltoday.com/2017/01/11/ra...h-australia-korea-and-japan-as-likely-buyers/
> 
> As per the fourth unit, KD-II _Chungmugong Yi Sun-sin_-class destroyer have 64 cells worth of VLS besides deck mounted SSMs.
> 
> Mk 41 32 cells
> 
> K-VLS 32 cells
> 
> 1x 21 RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM)
> 8 Harpoon or SSM-700K Haeseong Anti-ship missile
> 1x 30 mm Goalkeeper close-in weapon system,
> 
> 1x Mk 45 Mod 4 127 mm gun,
> 
> 2x triple 324 mm anti-submarine torpedo tubes.
> Super Lynx or SH-60
> In principle, these can carry the same weapons in the VLSs as KDIII.


Most KD-III_ / Sejong DDG weapon & radar systems come from U.S techs including Mk41 VLS / SM-2 / AN/SPY-1 / CIWS/ RAM purchased from foreign weapon supporters, 4x LM2500 turbine engines from America General Dynamics. China type055 each systems 100% built by domestic supporters, building without any restrictions from outside. Soon u see China type055 numbers will more than 3x KD-III. PLAN can building type055 as many as we need, but ROKN not they need American ~!_

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## Penguin

cnleio said:


> Most KD-III_ / Sejong DDG weapon & radar systems come from U.S techs including Mk41 VLS / SM-2 / AN/SPY-1 / CIWS/ RAM purchased from foreign weapon supporters, 4x LM2500 turbine engines from America General Dynamics. China type055 each systems 100% built by domestic supporters, building without any restrictions from outside. Soon u see China type055 numbers will more than 3x KD-III. PLAN can building type055 as many as we need, but ROKN not they need American ~!_


I am fully aware of what China is capable of, just as I am aware of what South Korea makes at home and imports, that was never the point. I was addressing specific things some people here alledge about KDIII, which are only partially correct at best. You know this very well. Numbers are irrelevant at this point, since we were discussing capabilities of individual ships. How many 055 will be produced remains to be seen. Incidentally, what does the propulsion plant of the 055 consist of? QC280 / QD280 [GT25000]?

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## waja2000

Penguin said:


> Says who? > indicate relevant authoritative sources please.
> 
> Really? Even if you discounted all South Korean equipment, there is no reason for the Mk41/Standard SM2 IIIA/B and IV/Aegis combo to not function with AN/SPY-1D(V) multi-function radar and AN/SPG-62 fire control radar and have only 32 SM2s in 80 cells. And there should also not be any trouble using the 127mm gun. Likewise the 21 cell RAM. Or SH-60s. Also, I doubt integrating Goalkeeper instead of Phalanx is very challenging.



Not big deal or serious on it, In china media and forum member always ridiculed or look down other navy, specially have issue like KORN, Japan or India even Europe warship , and praise there warship capability. that is normal you can see in china forum.

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## Brainsucker

Penguin said:


> See #535, #536, #541, #542: some compare 055 with - and make claims about - the KDIII. Which may or may not be correct. And so that becomes part of the discussion, if you don't mind.



I understand that you're not the one who start it, but I consider that you're a mature person. Older than those Chinese fanboys (at least in maturity), so please become an adult who face young people instead to become a youngsters and join the unnecessary mouth fight like that.


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## Penguin

Brainsucker said:


> I understand that you're not the one who start it, but I consider that you're a mature person. Older than those Chinese fanboys (at least in maturity), so please become an adult who face young people instead to become a youngsters and join the unnecessary mouth fight like that.


Would you kindly explain what about my previous post is 'immature'? Personally, I feel my replies were rather factual. But if it is considered offensive here to voice any dissenting opinion, then I'll leave so folks here can continue to delude themselves and others and feel good about themselves.

Good day.

ps: do report any offensive posts on my part to management.

ps: I posed a number of specific questions regarding propulsion of 055 and quad-packing its VLS, bringing discussion back to 055, to which I am not seeing any answer. That offensive too?

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## Brainsucker

Penguin said:


> Would you kindly explain what about my previous post is 'immature'? Personally, I feel my replies were rather factual. But if it is considered offensive here to voice any dissenting opinion, then I'll leave so folks here can continue to delude themselves and others and feel good about themselves.
> 
> Good day.
> 
> ps: do report any offensive posts on my part to management.
> 
> ps: I posed a number of specific questions regarding propulsion of 055 and quad-packing its VLS, bringing discussion back to 055, to which I am not seeing any answer. That offensive too?



It is me who have to ask you for forgiveness and cause miss understanding about this. The immaturity part was because to derailed this thread into Korean destroyer discussion, which should be discussed in another thread. Not here. So I'm sorry if you think that I do some offensive post that make you miss understand me

You're not wrong if you write an offensive post to me because of the miss understanding between us. So I'm apology. It is a part of my immaturity

PS I hope this post can clear the miss understanding between us

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## 52051

cnleio said:


> Type055
> Most KD-III_ / Sejong DDG weapon & radar systems come from U.S techs including Mk41 VLS / SM-2 / AN/SPY-1 / CIWS/ RAM purchased from foreign weapon supporters, 4x LM2500 turbine engines from America General Dynamics. China type055 each systems 100% built by domestic supporters, building without any restrictions from outside. Soon u see China type055 numbers will more than 3x KD-III. PLAN can building type055 as many as we need, but ROKN not they need American ~!_



It is really pointless to discuss this.

With or without KDIII korea navy is a joke to China, not to mention KDIII's silo has not been filled with missiles yet, so there is little point to discuss which ship get more missile silos, not to mention 055's missile silos are far larger and far more advanced than this Korea excuse of joke. And there are many other problems to make all the subsystems of KDIII work properly, so it is just floating rust now.

I would be suprised if koreans's KDIII has more combat value than China's 054A now.

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## Brainsucker

52051 said:


> It is really pointless to discuss this.
> 
> With or without KDIII korea navy is a joke to China, not to mention KDIII's silo has not been filled with missiles yet, so there is little point to discuss which ship get more missile silos, not to mention 055's missile silos are far larger and far more advanced than this Korea excuse of joke. And there are many other problems to make all the subsystems of KDIII work properly, so it is just floating rust now.
> 
> I would be suprised if koreans's KDIII has more combat value than China's 054A now.



Inferior or not, it is pointless to play compare game between 055 destroyer with KDIII and other. We discuss about 055 destroyer here. Not whose stronger between China and other country.

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## Penguin

52051 said:


> It is really pointless to discuss this.
> 
> With or without KDIII korea navy is a joke to China, not to mention KDIII's silo has not been filled with missiles yet, so there is little point to discuss which ship get more missile silos, not to mention 055's missile silos are far larger and far more advanced than this Korea excuse of joke. And there are many other problems to make all the subsystems of KDIII work properly, so it is just floating rust now.
> 
> I would be suprised if koreans's KDIII has more combat value than China's 054A now.


Not to mention that the first 055 isn't even in the water yet. In fact, there are no VLS fitted yet, let alone that these would be filled with any missiles, let alone quad packed ....

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## ArkRoyal

Sorry if this was asked before, but are there any major differences between the Type-052D and Type-055 in terms of sensors and processing systems (other than the obvious integrated mast)?

Also, are there any english sources on a Chinese SM-3 analog (I recall seeing a GIF of a purported Chinese ASAT/ABM launch from a Type-052D, though it could've just been an over-excited blogger - I understand that this question is more for the missile developments thread, but I was curious if the Type-055 might employ a SM-3 analog)?


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## Penguin

According to SIPRI general (arms) trade register:

110 Standard Missile-2MR SAM ordered in 2000. Deliveries 2003-2005. All 110 delivered. $159 m deal; SM-2 Block-3A version; for KDX-2 destroyers
159 Standard Missile-2MR SAM ordered in 2004. Deliveries 2006-2008. All 159 delivered. SM-2 Block-3A version; for KDX-2 destroyers
48 Standard Missile-2MR SAM ordered in 2006.Deliveries in 2008. All 48 delivered. $111 m deal; SM-2 Block-3B version; for KDX-3 destroyers
210 Standard Missile-2MR SAM ordered in 2008. Deliveries 2009-2015. All 210 delivered. $372 m deal; SM-2 Block-3A and SM-2 Block-3B version; for KDX-3 destroyers
62 Standard Missile-2MR SAM ordered 2010. Deliveries 2012. All 62 delivered. $67 m deal; SM-2 Block-3A and SM-2 Block-3B versions; for KDX-3 destroyers
19 Standard Missile-2MR SAM ordered 2011. Deliveries 2015. All 19 delivered. SM-2 Block-3B version.
That makes 269 SM2 Block 3A available for KDX-2s. There are 6 KDX-2 with 32 Mk41 cells each (192 cells total). So that means 1.4 full loads available. 
In addition, there are at most 210 SM2 Block 3A plus at least 129 SM2 Block 3B for KDX-3s (total 339). There are 3 KDX-3 with 80 cells each (240 cells). That too means 1.4 full loads available.

Why exactly would South Korean ships not carry these in their Mk41 VLSs?

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## ArkRoyal

Sorry for the slight derail, but I'd like to chip into Penguin's argument.

The KDX-III's K-VLS cells are more comparable to MK-56's in terms of gas ejection rate and volume, and are not watered-down MK-41's (not to mention the K-VLS block 2's, which can cold launch MRBM's, and are used on the KSS-III class submarine). They also carry Hyunmu-3C's (1500 KM range TLAM's), supersonic AShM's (500 KM range, and still not publicly showcased because of the ROK defense ministry -_-), quad-packed K-SAAM's (the ESSM block 2 analogues with IR / radar seekers for surface engagement capability), and are slated for the M-SAM PIP (analog to the SM-2 with ABM capability). All of those weapons are integrated with the K-VLS, in order to give the ROK total control over their weapons and integration (while negating the need to share their weapons' performance data with other MK-41 users through the software integration process, which is why the Japanese never deployed their ships with their own ESSM analog). The K-VLS will also be the main weapon launch system for the KDDX series destroyers, integrated with the domestic Korean phased array AESA MFR and integrated mast.

But seriously, can't we all just be proud that Asian navies in general are becoming comparable to (and now surpassing) their Western counterparts (other than the USN, if Trump doesn't do something retarded)?

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## Brainsucker

Penguin said:


> Which of these missiles quadpacked currently or in near future?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Type-052D DDG vertical launch system (VLS) model
> http://errymath.blogspot.com/2014/06/type-052d-multi-purposed-destroyer.html#.WKCFPX_-WYA



So what do you think about the limitation of 052D VLS that will be addressed and expand in the 055 VLS? I heard about the 7 metre limitation from some forum post (maybe SDF, maybe in here, I forgot)


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## Penguin

Brainsucker said:


> So what do you think about the limitation of 052D VLS that will be addressed and expand in the 055 VLS? I heard about the 7 metre limitation from some forum post (maybe SDF, maybe in here, I forgot)



From the source from the earlier post:

What is also confirmed by semi-official sources in China is that the VLS on Type 052D is built to GJB 5860-2006 standard (GJB = Guo-jia Jun-yong Biao-zhun, 国家军用标准 meaning National Military Standard), so that different types of missiles can be launched by a single launching system.
According to some of the publicized examples of GJB 5860-2006 requirement, there are 3 types of VLS that differs in length: 9 meter, 7 meter and 3.3 meter respectively (section 5.1.3), but the diameter is same for all, 850 mm maximum (section 6.1.2), with each launching tube filled with either dry air or nitrogen inside (section 6.1.4), and with higher internal pressure. (section 6.1.4).
Similar to U.S. Navy's MK 41, a launching module includes 8 launching tubes (section 5.2.4), and each tube can house 1 - 4 missiles (section 5.2.4). Each launching model has a launching control unit (section 5.3.7), which can simultaneously launch up to 4 missiles of different kind (section 5.3.6). The launching control unit must have build-in test/diagnostic function (section 5.3.8).
These publicized portions of GJV 5860-2006 are surprisingly similar to that of Mk 41 VLS, which prompt some Chinese internet sources to claim that there are potential future export of such system so that it has to comply to Mk 41 VLS, the most widely used VLS in the world.

http://errymath.blogspot.com/2014/06/type-052d-multi-purposed-destroyer.html#.WKHSjH_-WYB

Which means that 055 could be using the same VLS as 052D but because it has greater hull depth (because its bigger) it can house the 9m version, while the smaller 052D can at best handle the 7m version. Wonder which missile(s) the 3.3m version is intended for... (PL12/SD10 is 4m already)

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## cnleio

Penguin said:


> ps: I posed a number of specific questions regarding propulsion of 055 and quad-packing its VLS, bringing discussion back to 055, to which I am not seeing any answer. That offensive too?


About quad-packing VLS ... i think we can consult FM-3000 missile system, there'r quad-packing VLS on ZhuHai AirShow.
















China & U.S Navy ESSM missile development for quad-packing VLS






*China DK-10 (ESSM) revolution: PL-12 => SD-10A => DK-10 => HHQ-xxx*

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## Akasa

Penguin said:


> From the source from the earlier post:
> 
> What is also confirmed by semi-official sources in China is that the VLS on Type 052D is built to GJB 5860-2006 standard (GJB = Guo-jia Jun-yong Biao-zhun, 国家军用标准 meaning National Military Standard), so that different types of missiles can be launched by a single launching system.
> According to some of the publicized examples of GJB 5860-2006 requirement, there are 3 types of VLS that differs in length: 9 meter, 7 meter and 3.3 meter respectively (section 5.1.3), but the diameter is same for all, 850 mm maximum (section 6.1.2), with each launching tube filled with either dry air or nitrogen inside (section 6.1.4), and with higher internal pressure. (section 6.1.4).
> Similar to U.S. Navy's MK 41, a launching module includes 8 launching tubes (section 5.2.4), and each tube can house 1 - 4 missiles (section 5.2.4). Each launching model has a launching control unit (section 5.3.7), which can simultaneously launch up to 4 missiles of different kind (section 5.3.6). The launching control unit must have build-in test/diagnostic function (section 5.3.8).
> These publicized portions of GJV 5860-2006 are surprisingly similar to that of Mk 41 VLS, which prompt some Chinese internet sources to claim that there are potential future export of such system so that it has to comply to Mk 41 VLS, the most widely used VLS in the world.
> 
> http://errymath.blogspot.com/2014/06/type-052d-multi-purposed-destroyer.html#.WKHSjH_-WYB
> 
> Which means that 055 could be using the same VLS as 052D but because it has greater hull depth (because its bigger) it can house the 9m version, while the smaller 052D can at best handle the 7m version. Wonder which missile(s) the 3.3m version is intended for... (PL12/SD10 is 4m already)



The 3.3 m variant is likely for the *CY-5 *(Yu-8) ASROC.
The 7 m variant (used on 052D?) will house the *CJ-10*, *YJ-18*, *HQ-9*, *HQ-16*, *DK-10A/SD-10*, and *CY-5*.
The 9 m variant (on 055?) will house everything the 052D does but in addition to the *HQ-26* (see below).

The HQ-26 is allegedly close to 9 meters based on pixel measurements of the GIFs below:

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## cnleio

SinoSoldier said:


> The 3.3 m variant is likely for the *CY-5 *(Yu-8) ASROC.
> The 7 m variant (used on 052D?) will house the *CJ-10*, *YJ-18*, *HQ-9*, *HQ-16*, *DK-10A/SD-10*, and *CY-5*.
> The 9 m variant (on 055?) will house everything the 052D does but in addition to the *HQ-26* (see below).
> 
> The HQ-26 is allegedly close to 9 meters based on pixel measurements of the GIFs below:
> View attachment 376790
> 
> View attachment 376789


Looks like a new missile, i don't know  that's cold-VLS launch.


Just hear, China version "SM-3" or "SM-6" launch out ~! Both look same ?



































Continue above post of FM-3000

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## Penguin

cnleio said:


> About quad-packing VLS ... i think we can consult FM-3000 missile system, there'r quad-packing VLS on ZhuHai AirShow.


I beg to differ. The FM-3000 TEL carries a total of 8 missile container-launcher tubes. The missile containers arrangement is two separate banks of four. Each set of four containers shares a ground support plate. This is not quadpacking, where there are 4 missiles in 1 container-launcher tube, fitting in 1 VLS cell. Like so:






Try estimating the size of each container, by relating it e.g. to the truck width. THat Beiben truck is probably about 2.5m wide. Then see the quote on post #559: the diameter of the VLS system is the same for all lengths, namely 850 mm maximum. Quad-packing means stuffing 4 missiles into a round canister with 850 mm diameter (or possible a square 85x85 cm space).

Lets look at the missile. HQ-17. This missile is a derivative of the Russian Tor, known in the West as SA-15 or Gauntlet.
9M330, 9M331 missile
Length 2900 mm
Diameter 235 mm
Wingspan 650 mm

As is clear from the picture, the winglets fold. That means the space needed is less than the wingspan but, given where they fold, more than the missile diameter. It might be possible to quad pack this missile. It would fit the length of the shortest VLS variant (3.3m) Then again, if possible, then why was this pareticular arrangement chosen on the ground launch vehicle, rather than a true quad-pack? It clearly takes up more space.

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## Penguin

Is there an actual DK10 quadpack ? At easily 4m, possibly 5 with boosterstage for surface launch (above pic shows it nearly same length as BUK-based HQ-16 of about 5m), DK-10 would be unsuitable for the 3.3m VLS version...


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## 艹艹艹



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## 帅的一匹

China is rising, 055 is simply amazing!

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## cnleio

Penguin said:


> Is there an actual DK10 quadpack ? At easily 4m, possibly 5 with boosterstage for surface launch (above pic shows it nearly same length as BUK-based HQ-16 of about 5m), DK-10 would be unsuitable for the 3.3m VLS version...


I think China type052D & type055's VLS is totally difference with America MK-41 ... why DK-10 quad-missiles must suitable for MK-41 ?


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## Penguin

cnleio said:


> I think China type052D & type055's VLS is totally difference with America MK-41 ... why DK-10 quad-missiles must suitable for MK-41 ?


I've not said it should be. It is not why I quoted that particular text: that I quoted for the lengths and diameter. So, don't sidetrack (and leave the main questions unanswered ;-).

Do you agree 052D and 055 VLSs belong to the same family?


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## j20blackdragon

How come no mention of the 055's four X-band arrays providing 360 degree coverage...just like the AMDR?

*AMDR*




*055*




Meanwhile, Sejong the Great-class destroyer has three obsolete SPG-62 fire control radars for missile terminal guidance.




I would say this attribute alone puts the 055 far ahead of traditional AEGIS ships. It's not about how many missiles you have. It's about how many missiles you can provide terminal guidance for.

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## j20blackdragon

055 mast





360 degree coverage X-band AESA.
360 degree coverage electronic warfare.

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## 帅的一匹

j20blackdragon said:


> 055 mast
> View attachment 377110
> 
> 
> 360 degree coverage X-band AESA.
> 360 degree coverage electronic warfare.


Navy expert General Wang said the cost of 055 is over 15 billions USD.


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## HannibalBarca

wanglaokan said:


> Navy expert General Wang said the cost of 055 is over 15 billions USD.


15 billion for one pcs?????
I think you meant 1.5...

or R&D included...

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## 艹艹艹

wanglaokan said:


> the cost of 055 is over 15 billions USD


15? or 1.5?


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## rcrmj

wanglaokan said:


> Navy expert General Wang said the cost of 055 is over 15 billions USD.


15 billion RMB more likely, state-of-art weapon system doesnt have to be expensive

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## cnleio

wanglaokan said:


> Navy expert General Wang said the cost of 055 is over 15 billions USD.


15 billion USD ? or 1.5 billion USD ?

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## 帅的一匹

cnleio said:


> View attachment 377217
> View attachment 377218
> 
> 
> 
> 15 billion USD ? or 1.5 billion USD ?


I forget the decimal

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## Penguin

j20blackdragon said:


> Meanwhile, Sejong the Great-class destroyer has three obsolete SPG-62 fire control radars for missile terminal guidance.
> 
> I would say this attribute alone puts the 055 far ahead of traditional AEGIS ships. It's not about how many missiles you have. It's about how many missiles you can provide terminal guidance for.



Maybe, dual band AMDR allows for deletion of illumination radars. It doesn't mean having seperate illumination radars makes the earlier ABs outdated or irrelevant. It means the are limited in dealing with counter large and complex raids and saturation attacks. CEC and the Naval Integrated Fire Control – Counter Air (NIFC-CA) battle network. however, at least partially eliminate/compensate for the drawback of having 3 illuminators. 

As for Sejong the Great class, who says the 3 additional ships won't get the latest fit, including AMDR? Remember, construction of AB Flight III ships started in FY2016 in place of the canceled CG(X) program, and these have various design improvements including radar antennas of mid-diameter increased to 14 feet (4.3 m) from the previous 12 feet (3.7 m). 

Seven Flight I ships - DDG 51-53, 57, 61, 65, 69 - will get the full US$270m mid-life upgrade that included electronics and Aegis Baseline 9 software for SM-6 compatibility.

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## MULUBJA

HannibalBarca said:


> 15 billion for one pcs?????
> I think you meant 1.5...
> 
> or R&D included...


 
It may be a total programme cost.

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## j20blackdragon

Penguin said:


> Maybe, dual band AMDR allows for deletion of illumination radars. It doesn't mean having seperate illumination radars makes the earlier ABs outdated or irrelevant. It means the are limited in dealing with counter large and complex raids and saturation attacks. CEC and the Naval Integrated Fire Control – Counter Air (NIFC-CA) battle network. however, at least partially eliminate/compensate for the drawback of having 3 illuminators.
> 
> As for Sejong the Great class, who says the 3 additional ships won't get the latest fit, including AMDR? Remember, construction of AB Flight III ships started in FY2016 in place of the canceled CG(X) program, and these have various design improvements including radar antennas of mid-diameter increased to 14 feet (4.3 m) from the previous 12 feet (3.7 m).
> 
> Seven Flight I ships - DDG 51-53, 57, 61, 65, 69 - will get the full US$270m mid-life upgrade that included electronics and Aegis Baseline 9 software for SM-6 compatibility.



Arleigh Burkes and Ticonderogas are not outdated or irrelevant. They are more capable than the vast majority of ships in the world.

But the AN/SPG-62 fire control radar is obsolete technology. The radar is mechanically steered and only provides illumination for a single target at a time. If you want to illuminate a new target, it needs to be mechanically steered again. Thus the key to defeating a traditional AEGIS ship is to overwhelm (or jam) the rather small number of SPG-62 radars. Multiple missiles coming in from different directions would be even more dangerous. The SM-6 has an active radar seeker, but the small and weak radar and electronics inside the missile are easily jammed.

An X-band AESA radar, on the other hand, can form multiple beams at the same time and illuminate multiple targets. AESA is electronically steered very quickly instead of mechanically steered. AESA is more difficult to jam. Also, according to various sources, the AESA radar itself can be used as a weapon.

The US already has a replacement in service. The AN/SPY-3 MFR (X-band AESA) is operational on the Zumwalt-class destroyer. But the Zumwalt is hobbled in its own way. The larger SPY-4 S-band AESA Volume Search Radar (VSR) was deleted in order to save money. What a disaster.






The ideal AMDR (Raytheon concept below) has a superstructure (and mast) with enough room for both an X-band and S-band component.










But the Arleigh Burke simply doesn't have room for the three or four X-band arrays and associated equipment. There is no room on the superstructure even if you have the money for the upgrade.






The 055, on the other hand, has an integrated mast with plenty of room. We can see the 3 openings on the mockup. The largest opening at the bottom is for the X-band AESA.

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## Penguin

j20blackdragon said:


> But the Arleigh Burke simply doesn't have room for the three or four X-band arrays and associated equipment. There is no room on the superstructure even if you have the money for the upgrade.



If you consider e.g. the Dutch APAR (X-band) and SMART-L (S-Band) set up, on much smaller hulls, with e.g the former in an integrated mast (I-MAST 500), then you know you can have an effective package in a small space.






If you look at the AB you can use not only the area atop the bridge but also the area behind the rear stack. Esp. if you relocate or delete the rear Phalanx (one could well replace this by a SeaRam on both port and starboard on the most forward part of the structure housing the hangar) as well as the AN/SPG-62s, you could well place a maststructure there to incorporate X-band with 2, 3 or perhaps even 4 arrays.







You don't necessarily need to go this way:


















PS: Why are the AN/SPG-62s retained upon installation of ICWI capable X-band AESA??? After all: "the X-band radar is to provide horizon search, precision tracking, missile communication and terminal illumination of targets. The S-band and X-band sensors will also share functionality including radar navigation, periscope detection, as well as missile guidance and communication."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPY-6

APAR (X-band) on Dutch LCF: a very compact mast structure.





Apar Blk 2: Thales' new X-band multi-function radar, successor to the proven APAR (the first naval AESA radar).
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/defence/apar-active-phased-array-multifunction-radar
http://vanguardcanada.uberflip.com/i/699741-vanguard-junejuly-2016/1

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## j20blackdragon

Penguin said:


> If you consider e.g. the Dutch APAR (X-band) and SMART-L (S-Band) set up, on much smaller hulls, with e.g the former in an integrated mast (I-MAST 500), then you know you can have an effective package in a small space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the AB you can use not only the area atop the bridge but also the area behind the rear stack. Esp. if you relocate or delete the rear Phalanx (one could well replace this by a SeaRam on both port and starboard on the most forward part of the structure housing the hangar) as well as the AN/SPG-62s, you could well place a maststructure there to incorporate X-band with 2, 3 or perhaps even 4 arrays.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't necessarily need to go this way:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Why are the AN/SPG-62s retained upon installation of ICWI capable X-band AESA??? After all: "the X-band radar is to provide horizon search, precision tracking, missile communication and terminal illumination of targets. The S-band and X-band sensors will also share functionality including radar navigation, periscope detection, as well as missile guidance and communication."
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPY-6
> 
> APAR (X-band) on Dutch LCF: a very compact mast structure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apar Blk 2: Thales' new X-band multi-function radar, successor to the proven APAR (the first naval AESA radar).
> https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/defence/apar-active-phased-array-multifunction-radar
> http://vanguardcanada.uberflip.com/i/699741-vanguard-junejuly-2016/1



You're talking about what theoretically could happen.

I'm talking about what is actually happening.

We already know the changes to Arleigh Burke Flight III.

http://aviationweek.com/site-files/...Defense/Ships/FlightIIIDDG-51-AWST_USNavy.jpg





- AMDR-S replaces the SPY-1
- the very small SPQ-9B rotating radar becomes the X-band component of AMDR
- SPG-62 fire control radars are retained

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## Brainsucker

Interesting, China should buy an Arleigh Burke Flight III Destroyer (mimicking some Pakistani's friend comment)

But sarcasm aside, there's no new 055 Destroyer news?


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## cirr

HannibalBarca said:


> 15 billion for one pcs?????
> I think you meant 1.5...
> 
> or R&D included...



850 million USD at current exchange rates.



Brainsucker said:


> Interesting, China should buy an Arleigh Burke Flight III Destroyer (mimicking some Pakistani's friend comment)
> 
> But sarcasm aside, there's no new 055 Destroyer news?



8 in various stages of construction.

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## Penguin

j20blackdragon said:


> You're talking about what theoretically could happen.
> 
> I'm talking about what is actually happening.
> 
> We already know the changes to Arleigh Burke Flight III.
> 
> http://aviationweek.com/site-files/...Defense/Ships/FlightIIIDDG-51-AWST_USNavy.jpg
> View attachment 377655
> 
> 
> - AMDR-S replaces the SPY-1
> - the very small SPQ-9B rotating radar becomes the X-band component of AMDR
> - SPG-62 fire control radars are retained


Clearly a (relatively) low cost solution...

I was responding to post 579, which discussed 'the ideal AMDR (Raytheon concept), which has a superstructure (and mast) with enough room for both an X-band and S-band component'. This claimed 'But the Arleigh Burke simply doesn't have room for the three or four X-band arrays and associated equipment. There is no room on the superstructure even if you have the money for the upgrade.' 

I think it has space, esp. if you dump the AN/SPG-62s.

Besides, in Navy land, nothing is ever final.



cirr said:


> 8 in various stages of construction.


Is there a source that backs this up? Indication how many where exactly?


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## j20blackdragon

Penguin said:


> Clearly a (relatively) low cost solution...
> 
> I was responding to post 579, which discussed 'the ideal AMDR (Raytheon concept), which has a superstructure (and mast) with enough room for both an X-band and S-band component'. This claimed 'But the Arleigh Burke simply doesn't have room for the three or four X-band arrays and associated equipment. There is no room on the superstructure even if you have the money for the upgrade.'
> 
> I think it has space, esp. if you dump the AN/SPG-62s.
> 
> Besides, in Navy land, nothing is ever final.



It's one thing to make imaginary changes to the superstructure of a ship in your head, it's another thing to make the changes in real life while maintaining the seaworthiness of the ship.

Look at all the different factors that had to be considered just to add the SPY-6 radar to Flight III: weight, center of gravity, structural changes to the hull, power, cooling, and internal space needed for all the new equipment. The Arleigh Burke design is already being pushed to the limits.

At the end of the day, the ship needs to be able to sail.





Here the X-band radar limitations are addressed directly.





And that would be another advantage of building a brand new ship like the 055. We don't need to speculate about the location of the X-band AESA because we know it's going into the integrated mast. We don't need to speculate about whether or not the hull/superstructure can handle the size and weight of the integrated mast because the ship is a clean-sheet design...purpose-built from the ground up to be able to handle all the necessary requirements.

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## Penguin

j20blackdragon said:


> It's one thing to make imaginary changes to the superstructure of a ship in your head, it's another thing to make the changes in real life while maintaining the seaworthiness of the ship.


Yes, thank you, I respect your input too. 



j20blackdragon said:


> Look at all the different factors that had to be considered just to add the SPY-6 radar to Flight III: weight, center of gravity, structural changes to the hull, power, cooling, and internal space needed for all the new equipment. The Arleigh Burke design is already being pushed to the limits.
> 
> At the end of the day, the ship needs to be able to sail.
> 
> Here the X-band radar limitations are addressed directly.



All very well, but please explain why it would need to retain 3 AN/SPG-62s if an ICWI capable multi-panel X-band AESA radar? It isn't necessarily a huge or weighty set up. See not just APAR, but also e.g. CeaMount
http://www.cea.com.au/!Global/Direc...sServices:ContinuousWaveIlluminators:CEAMOUNT
http://www.cea.com.au/!Global/Directory.php?Location=ProductsServices:PhasedArrayTechnologies:CEAFAR

It is not like e.g. the Australian ANZAC ships has a lot of degrees of freedom with repect to weight, center of gravity, etc. Nonetheless, they went from:





to

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## j20blackdragon

Penguin said:


> It isn't necessarily a huge or weighty set up.



And how would you know the weight of the set up, and how much additional weight the Arleigh Burke superstructure/hull can handle without compromising the seaworthiness of the ship?



Penguin said:


> It is not like e.g. the Australian ANZAC ships has a lot of degrees of freedom with repect to weight, center of gravity, etc. Nonetheless, they went from:
> 
> to



Here you've demonstrated the logical fallacy of *false equivalence*.
https://trulyfallacious.com/logic/logical-fallacies/presumption/false-equivalence

Because an Australian ship was able to make certain upgrades, you automatically assume the current Arleigh Burke can make a similar leap. Nevermind the fact that the Arleigh Burke is already packed to the gills with additional equipment as it evolved from Flight I to Flight III.

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## Penguin

j20blackdragon said:


> And how would you know the weight of the set up, and how much additional weight the Arleigh Burke superstructure/hull can handle without compromising the seaworthiness of the ship?


And how would you, indeed?

Anyway, for starters, one can examine the Raytheon concept (post 579). Clearly, the structure proposed atop the bridge isn't exactly small or light. IMHO, APAR or CeaMount or equivalent can fit in a smaller, lighter supporting structure and can be mounted somewhat lower down. Add to that weight reduction by removal of AN/SPG-62s.








j20blackdragon said:


> Here you've demonstrated the logical fallacy of *false equivalence*.
> https://trulyfallacious.com/logic/logical-fallacies/presumption/false-equivalence
> 
> Because an Australian ship was able to make certain upgrades, you automatically assume the current Arleigh Burke can make a similar leap. Nevermind the fact that the Arleigh Burke is already packed to the gills with additional equipment as it evolved from Flight I to Flight III.



I'm not assuming anything. I'm merely giving an example of a ship with a VERY limited margin that still managed a rather significant modification.

Besides, I don't think my example is a case of false equivalency. To quote your like

*Gang bangers cover there heads with hoodies.
Nuns cover their heads with habits.*

_Therefore_
*Nuns are no better than gang bangers.*

That is not the kind of comparison I made. Hoodies and habits are different things (whereas the radars discussed are not of a different class) and gangbangers and nuns have nothing in common apart from being human being: the ANZAC frigate and AB destroyer are both warships, with limited margins for growht. Incidentally, the margin on the Perry class was also very small (even on the long ones) and here too we find navies installing Mk41s, Smart- S MK2, AShM atop the hull etc.

The point I would like to stress is that there are (much) more compact (hence lighter) options, that don't necessarily have to be mounted atop the bridge in order to provide effective coverage (i.e. contribute less to centre of gravity rising).

I would also like to point out "As of 2013 the program is expected to deliver 22 radars" and "To cut costs the first twelve AMDR sets will have an X-band component based on the existing SPQ-9B rotating radar, to be replaced by a new X-band radar in set 13 that will be more capable against future threats"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPY-6

In other words, this graphic below is not necessarily what all Flight IIIs will look like, and the reason that the first 13 will have an X-band component based on the existing SPQ-9B rotating radar is cost cutting, not topweight and stability issues.

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## Brainsucker

Penguin said:


> And how would you, indeed?
> 
> Anyway, for starters, one can examine the Raytheon concept (post 579). Clearly, the structure proposed atop the bridge isn't exactly small or light. IMHO, APAR or CeaMount or equivalent can fit in a smaller, lighter supporting structure and can be mounted somewhat lower down. Add to that weight reduction by removal of AN/SPG-62s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not assuming anything. I'm merely giving an example of a ship with a VERY limited margin that still managed a rather significant modification.
> 
> Besides, I don't think my example is a case of false equivalency. To quote your like
> 
> *Gang bangers cover there heads with hoodies.
> Nuns cover their heads with habits.*
> 
> _Therefore_
> *Nuns are no better than gang bangers.*
> 
> That is not the kind of comparison I made. Hoodies and habits are different things (whereas the radars discussed are not of a different class) and gangbangers and nuns have nothing in common apart from being human being: the ANZAC frigate and AB destroyer are both warships, with limited margins for growht. Incidentally, the margin on the Perry class was also very small (even on the long ones) and here too we find navies installing Mk41s, Smart- S MK2, AShM atop the hull etc.
> 
> The point I would like to stress is that there are (much) more compact (hence lighter) options, that don't necessarily have to be mounted atop the bridge in order to provide effective coverage (i.e. contribute less to centre of gravity rising).
> 
> I would also like to point out "As of 2013 the program is expected to deliver 22 radars" and "To cut costs the first twelve AMDR sets will have an X-band component based on the existing SPQ-9B rotating radar, to be replaced by a new X-band radar in set 13 that will be more capable against future threats"
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPY-6
> 
> In other words, this graphic below is not necessarily what all Flight IIIs will look like, and the reason that the first 13 will have an X-band component based on the existing SPQ-9B rotating radar is cost cutting, not topweight and stability issues.



Now, I'm going to OOT too. So why don't they make the Flight III with the Raytheon concept? They are new ships, and not likely an upgrade plan for the current Flight I and Flight II. So, I'm sure that they can modify the Arleigh Burke design a little so they can fit with the Raytheon concept.


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## samsara

Read this thread for new posting about Type 055 DDG, instead the much transgression!

WHY don't you folks open a new thread to discuss all the Arleigh Burke/Raytheon matters instead of filling up this thread with the unrelated info? At least you can create a new thread for comparison purpose if that's all you want. One or two posts are still okay, but prolonged postings on this topic is irrelevant, even indecent in this dedicated thread for Type 055 DDG!

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## cnleio

samsara said:


> Read this thread for new posting about Type 055 DDG, instead the much transgression!
> 
> WHY don't you folks open a new thread to discuss all the Arleigh Burke/Raytheon matters instead of filling up this thread with the unrelated info? At least you can create a new thread for comparison purpose if that's all you want. One or two posts are still okay, but prolonged postings on this topic is irrelevant, even indecent in this dedicated thread for Type 055 DDG!


Never mind, my friend. That's good, when ppl compare China Type 055 with America Arleigh Burke-III ... here nobody has interest to discuss a old DDG with Arleigh Burke. The new-designed Type 055 DDG (new VLS cell, new missile, new S-band/X-band AESA radar) is the most powerful warship China ever built, as far as I know the position of Type 055 in PLAN will as same as Arleigh Burke in U.S Navy, US need the "Arleigh Burke" and PLAN need more Type 055 DDGs to protect our interests on sea. Looking for the gap between both, after type 055 DDGs China can design better, future will be new class DDG.

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## cnleio

Four type055 under construction

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## j20blackdragon

Penguin said:


> Add to that weight reduction by removal of AN/SPG-62s.



How much weight is reduced by the removal of the SPG-62s?
How much weight is added by the addition of the mast-structure and radars you continue to propose?
How much additional weight can the Flight III add while maintaining the seaworthiness of the ship?
How does the added weight affect the center of gravity of the ship?

Are you able to answer any of these serious questions, or will you continue to conjure up more fantasies in your head?



Penguin said:


> I'm not assuming anything. I'm merely giving an example of a ship with a VERY limited margin that still managed a rather significant modification.



What evidence have you provided that proves the Anzac-class had a limited margin for growth prior to the upgrades?



Penguin said:


> the ANZAC frigate and AB destroyer are both warships, with limited margins for growht.



Can you prove that both ships were facing similar constraints in terms of how much they could grow?

Here are the facts for the Arleigh Burke. Can you prove the Anzac-class was facing similar problems?

The current Arleigh Burke is overweight. Flight I was light (for the hull size) and had plenty of capacity for upgrades. Flight III is no longer the same ship. Trying to compare Flight I to Flight III is comparing apples to oranges. Trying to compare a random foreign ship to Flight III is also comparing apples to oranges.





The Arleigh Burke has one of the highest equipment-densities in the world. Not much room for additional upgrades.





The SPY-6 antenna is top-heavy, throwing off the overall weight distribution of the ship. They had to add additional weight to the hull in order to correct the ship's center of gravity. 





Additional upgrades are possible as long as you are able to increase the size of the hull. The US Navy can't afford the hull enlargement.







Penguin said:


> I would also like to point out "As of 2013 the program is expected to deliver 22 radars" and "To cut costs the first twelve AMDR sets will have an X-band component based on the existing SPQ-9B rotating radar, to be replaced by a new X-band radar in set 13 that will be more capable against future threats"
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPY-6



Yes, this is what they hope to do in the future. But it is not yet set in stone. Have any contracts been signed?



Penguin said:


> In other words, this graphic below is not necessarily what all Flight IIIs will look like, and the reason that the first 13 will have an X-band component based on the existing SPQ-9B rotating radar is cost cutting, not topweight and stability issues.



I agree with the cost cutting part. The rest is your opinion only.

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## Penguin

j20blackdragon said:


> How much weight is reduced by the removal of the SPG-62s?
> How much weight is added by the addition of the mast-structure and radars you continue to propose?
> How much additional weight can the Flight III add while maintaining the seaworthiness of the ship?
> How does the added weight affect the center of gravity of the ship?
> 
> Are you able to answer any of these serious questions, or will you continue to conjure up more fantasies in your head?



Don't be ridiculous. Can you answer those questions in relation to

a)





or

b)





as in comparison to Flight 2A? No, you can't.




j20blackdragon said:


> What evidence have you provided that proves the Anzac-class had a limited margin for growth prior to the upgrades?


For example, slide 8 of the below.
http://tangentlink.com/wp-content/u...and-Naval-Fleet-Captain-Jon-Finderup-RNZN.pdf



j20blackdragon said:


> Can you prove that both ships were facing similar constraints in terms of how much they could grow?


Can you prove they weren't?



j20blackdragon said:


> Here are the facts for the Arleigh Burke.


GAO's facts. GAO stands for General ACCOUNTING office, remember.



j20blackdragon said:


> Can you prove the Anzac-class was facing similar problems?


Why would I need to?



j20blackdragon said:


> The current Arleigh Burke is overweight.


Nobody claimed it wasn't



j20blackdragon said:


> Flight I was light (for the hull size) and had plenty of capacity for upgrades. Flight III is no longer the same ship.


Nobody said they were the same. Anyway, you need to look at the margins of 2As then.



j20blackdragon said:


> Trying to compare Flight I to Flight III is comparing apples to oranges.


I didn't compare them.



j20blackdragon said:


> Trying to compare a random foreign ship to Flight III is also comparing apples to oranges.


I didn't compare them, I pointed to HMAS Perth as an example of a ship adopting a very compact X-band set, for illumination. The USN does have a tendency to make things bigger that other navies think it needs to be.



j20blackdragon said:


> The Arleigh Burke has one of the highest equipment-densities in the world. Not much room for additional upgrades.


Exactly. So, one also needs to take things off. However, as far as stability is concerned, no problem if added top weight is off-set by added weight low down. Which is what was done in HMAS Perth.



j20blackdragon said:


> The SPY-6 antenna is top-heavy, throwing off the overall weight distribution of the ship. They had to add additional weight to the hull in order to correct the ship's center of gravity.


Just like they did in HMAS Perth (notably the cooling equipment for the new radars in the new mast.) But hey, that was just an invalid, random comparison....



j20blackdragon said:


> Additional upgrades are possible as long as you are able to increase the size of the hull. The US Navy can't afford the hull enlargement.


I wasn't discussing anything ADDITIONAL.



j20blackdragon said:


> Yes, this is what they hope to do in the future. But it is not yet set in stone. Have any contracts been signed?


Nothing is ever in stone. 22 radar sets ordered, 13 ships. You think they are not going for the other 9 ships?



j20blackdragon said:


> I agree with the cost cutting part. The rest is your opinion only.


No, it's fact. (not 'alternative fact' ;-)

How's your blood pressure?



samsara said:


> Read this thread for new posting about Type 055 DDG, instead the much transgression!
> 
> WHY don't you folks open a new thread to discuss all the Arleigh Burke/Raytheon matters instead of filling up this thread with the unrelated info? At least you can create a new thread for comparison purpose if that's all you want. One or two posts are still okay, but prolonged postings on this topic is irrelevant, even indecent in this dedicated thread for Type 055 DDG!


roger wilco. out.

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## j20blackdragon

Penguin said:


> Don't be ridiculous. Can you answer those questions in relation to
> 
> a)
> 
> or
> 
> b)
> 
> 
> as in comparison to Flight 2A? No, you can't.



Why would I need to answer the questions when the *burden of proof* is on you? You are the one claiming the Arleigh Burke has the ability to easily accept a brand new mast-structure and radar. You prove it.



Penguin said:


> For example, slide 8 of the below.
> http://tangentlink.com/wp-content/u...and-Naval-Fleet-Captain-Jon-Finderup-RNZN.pdf



That link provides zero evidence.

I can easily debunk your claim that the Anzac-class had a limited margin for growth prior to the upgrades. In fact, it was the exact opposite. The Anzac-class was designed with a 'fitted for but not with' philosophy, meaning the ship was designed to be deliberately under-equipped with the intention of accepting upgrades in the future.





http://www.australiandefence.com.au/C99AF1D0-F806-11DD-8DFE0050568C22C9

Comparing the Anzac-class to the Flight III is an apples to oranges comparison.



Penguin said:


> Can you prove they weren't?



I just did. See above.



Penguin said:


> GAO's facts. GAO stands for General ACCOUNTING office, remember.



The GAO interviews naval engineers and architects before they compile their reports. They don't make up information like you do.



Penguin said:


> Why would I need to?



Because you said...

"the ANZAC frigate and AB destroyer are both warships, with limited margins for growht."



Penguin said:


> So, one also needs to take things off. However, as far as stability is concerned, no problem if added top weight is off-set by added weight low down.



And what exactly should be taken off the Arleigh Burke? And what should be added? How can you be so sure that stability would not be a problem? Remember, you're the one designing a warship in your head. I'm just asking questions.

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## Penguin

j20blackdragon said:


> Why would I need to answer the questions when the *burden of proof* is on you? You are the one claiming the Arleigh Burke has the ability to easily accept a brand new mast-structure and radar. You prove it.


Only for things I claim, not for thing I didn't claim.
Besides, I'm doing this for recreation, don't HAVE to do anything and you cannot make me do anything.

However, as indicated, if Raytheon comes up with a concept involving a large (probably steel) structure atop the bridge with 3 radar arrays, while retaining 3 AN/SPG-62s in their original places (a concept which I assume they wouldn't put forward if it wasn't technically feasible), I don't see why a different modification involving a sleek and light structure (e.g. alu) with a four faced APAR isn't possible e.g behind the second stack.

The above deck weight of Thales APAR is lt. 11 tons.
https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/default/files/asset/document/tha0029_datasheet_apar_hr.pdf

A single AN/SPG-62 antennea weighs 1.225 tons, so three weigh 3.675 ton that can be deleted
http://www.gd-ots.com/armament_systems/ss_aegis.html
Discart the AN/SPS-67 (0.3 ton) http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=2100&tid=1275&ct=2.
AND DO NOT replace with AN/SPQ-9B (0.68 ton) http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=2100&tid=311&ct=2
Weight thus saved: 3.975 ton






There are three antenna arrays on the Raytheon concept. What do you think: they weigh more or less than 7.025 tons i.e. 2.342 tons each? Consider that the 4 smaller arrays of APAR in a typical square structure are <11 tons (i.e. < 2.75 ton per side, of which 2 tons is array only), that is.

Additional weight could be saved by (wholly or partially) cutting down the structures beneath the front AN/SPG-62 and the rear most AN/SPG-62 (which hold equipment associated with these illuminators). And of course: by not having that large (easily 2 deck levels!) addition (and whatever it contains) atop the bridge in the first place!

APAR could be located directly behind the rear stack (highest point, least additional mast structure).





Consider also that e.g proposed 4.5k ton PF 4921 frigate based on USCG National Security Cutter employs both CeaFar (6 elements) and CeaMount (4 elements) on a mast similar to that of Burke. Something using CeaMOUNT only could be even smaller.




http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/...lls-industries-gain-traction-internationally/








j20blackdragon said:


> That link provides zero evidence.


Says you.



j20blackdragon said:


> I can easily debunk your claim that the Anzac-class had a limited margin for growth prior to the upgrades. In fact, it was the exact opposite. The Anzac-class was designed with a 'fitted for but not with' philosophy, meaning the ship was designed to be deliberately under-equipped with the intention of accepting upgrades in the future.


As you pointed out about Arleigh Burke, Flight 1 is not Flight 2 is not Flight 2a etc. So, why then do you assume the ANZAC (MEKO 200ANZ) as originally delivered, is the same as the ANZAC when it got the new mast with CeaFar and CeaMount?

The armament initially consisted of a single 5-inch gun and a point-defence missile system (an eight-cell Lockheed Martin Mark 41 Mod 5 vertical launch system for RIM-7 Sea Sparrow missiles as a point-defence system), supported by a missile-armed helicopter. Sure, it had a lot of margin then!

The ships were delivered "fitted for but not with" a torpedo system, two quad-canister Harpoon anti-ship missile launchers, a second Mark 41 launcher, and a close-in weapons system. All ships were "fitted for but not with" a towed-array sonar, with the RAN and RNZN following separate acquisition programs for these. The frigates were also "fitted for but not with" SATCOM and a Helo datalink.

However, you ignore that since entering service Mark 32 3-tube torpedo launchers taken from other, retiring ships were installed. Phalanx CIWS weapons system, recycled from decommissioning various _Leander_ frigates, were fitted to each new frigate in New Zealand service. In 2003 ESSM began to replace Sea Sparrow (i.e. 32 missiles instead of 8) in RAN. Harpoon was installed across the RAN vessels from 2005 onwards. The original planned location on 02 deck was found to be unsuitable, and the launchers were relocated to 01 deck, in front of the bridge. Around the same time, the RAN began to fit these frigates with two M2HB .50 calibre machine guns in Mini Typhoon mounts, installed on the aft corners of the hangar roof, with two TopLite EO directors. A Petrel Mine and Obstacle Avoidance Sonar system was added. Also installed were a Vampir NG Infrared Search and Track system, and Sharpeye Navigational Radar Systems. All this before Perth became the first to undergo the ASMD project in 2010.

On 18 January 2010, _Perth_ docked at the Australian Marine Complex in Henderson, Western Australia to be modified under the Anti-Ship Missile Defence Project, which included the fitting of CEA Technologies' CEAFAR and CEAMOUNT phased array radars. Both of the frigate's masts were replaced. The new aft mast is taller and sits at 38.7 metres. The new foremast is lower. Additional ballast was added to improve the frigate's stability, and the ship's quarterdeck was enclosed



j20blackdragon said:


> Comparing the Anzac-class to the Flight III is an apples to oranges comparison.


See previous post



j20blackdragon said:


> I just did. See above.


Nah, not really. See above.



j20blackdragon said:


> The GAO interviews naval engineers and architects before they compile their reports. They don't make up information like you do.


LOL. I know better than most here what GAO is and does. Point is, they aren't naval enginees and architects, and their reports aren't automatically final or even necessarily consensus based (often include responses why various other agencies do not have the same view). Besides, this is a forum, not a US government agency. I take it one is free to explore in a forum setting. You claim I make up information, but that is all that you do: claim. As you pointed out, if you claim, on you is the burden of proof.



j20blackdragon said:


> Because you said...
> 
> "the ANZAC frigate and AB destroyer are both warships, with limited margins for growht."


Anyway, less different than NUNS and GANG BANGERS! In reality, however, any and every ship has a limited margin for growth....



j20blackdragon said:


> And what exactly should be taken off the Arleigh Burke? And what should be added? How can you be so sure that stability would not be a problem? Remember, you're the one designing a warship in your head. I'm just asking questions.


See above. You are getting all upset over ... nothing.

Folks here asked if we could stop bickering about ABIII. I already indicated my willingness to do so. Therefor this is the last post I am putting here on this topic.

I suggest you take a good sized chill-pill.


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## cnleio

@Penguin

VLS cells on type052D, also will on type055 DDG

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## cnleio

@Penguin about *China ESSM*

See left side







RIM-162 ESSM

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## j20blackdragon

Penguin said:


> Only for things I claim, not for thing I didn't claim.
> Besides, I'm doing this for recreation, don't HAVE to do anything and you cannot make me do anything.
> 
> However, as indicated, if Raytheon comes up with a concept involving a large (probably steel) structure atop the bridge with 3 radar arrays, while retaining 3 AN/SPG-62s in their original places (a concept which I assume they wouldn't put forward if it wasn't technically feasible), I don't see why a different modification involving a sleek and light structure (e.g. alu) with a four faced APAR isn't possible e.g behind the second stack.
> 
> The above deck weight of Thales APAR is lt. 11 tons.
> https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/default/files/asset/document/tha0029_datasheet_apar_hr.pdf
> 
> A single AN/SPG-62 antennea weighs 1.225 tons, so three weigh 3.675 ton that can be deleted
> http://www.gd-ots.com/armament_systems/ss_aegis.html
> Discart the AN/SPS-67 (0.3 ton) http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=2100&tid=1275&ct=2.
> AND DO NOT replace with AN/SPQ-9B (0.68 ton) http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=2100&tid=311&ct=2
> Weight thus saved: 3.975 ton
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are three antenna arrays on the Raytheon concept. What do you think: they weigh more or less than 7.025 tons i.e. 2.342 tons each? Consider that the 4 smaller arrays of APAR in a typical square structure are <11 tons (i.e. < 2.75 ton per side, of which 2 tons is array only), that is.
> 
> Additional weight could be saved by (wholly or partially) cutting down the structures beneath the front AN/SPG-62 and the rear most AN/SPG-62 (which hold equipment associated with these illuminators). And of course: by not having that large (easily 2 deck levels!) addition (and whatever it contains) atop the bridge in the first place!
> 
> APAR could be located directly behind the rear stack (highest point, least additional mast structure).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Consider also that e.g proposed 4.5k ton PF 4921 frigate based on USCG National Security Cutter employs both CeaFar (6 elements) and CeaMount (4 elements) on a mast similar to that of Burke. Something using CeaMOUNT only could be even smaller.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/...lls-industries-gain-traction-internationally/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says you.
> 
> 
> As you pointed out about Arleigh Burke, Flight 1 is not Flight 2 is not Flight 2a etc. So, why then do you assume the ANZAC (MEKO 200ANZ) as originally delivered, is the same as the ANZAC when it got the new mast with CeaFar and CeaMount?
> 
> The armament initially consisted of a single 5-inch gun and a point-defence missile system (an eight-cell Lockheed Martin Mark 41 Mod 5 vertical launch system for RIM-7 Sea Sparrow missiles as a point-defence system), supported by a missile-armed helicopter. Sure, it had a lot of margin then!
> 
> The ships were delivered "fitted for but not with" a torpedo system, two quad-canister Harpoon anti-ship missile launchers, a second Mark 41 launcher, and a close-in weapons system. All ships were "fitted for but not with" a towed-array sonar, with the RAN and RNZN following separate acquisition programs for these. The frigates were also "fitted for but not with" SATCOM and a Helo datalink.
> 
> However, you ignore that since entering service Mark 32 3-tube torpedo launchers taken from other, retiring ships were installed. Phalanx CIWS weapons system, recycled from decommissioning various _Leander_ frigates, were fitted to each new frigate in New Zealand service. In 2003 ESSM began to replace Sea Sparrow (i.e. 32 missiles instead of 8) in RAN. Harpoon was installed across the RAN vessels from 2005 onwards. The original planned location on 02 deck was found to be unsuitable, and the launchers were relocated to 01 deck, in front of the bridge. Around the same time, the RAN began to fit these frigates with two M2HB .50 calibre machine guns in Mini Typhoon mounts, installed on the aft corners of the hangar roof, with two TopLite EO directors. A Petrel Mine and Obstacle Avoidance Sonar system was added. Also installed were a Vampir NG Infrared Search and Track system, and Sharpeye Navigational Radar Systems. All this before Perth became the first to undergo the ASMD project in 2010.
> 
> On 18 January 2010, _Perth_ docked at the Australian Marine Complex in Henderson, Western Australia to be modified under the Anti-Ship Missile Defence Project, which included the fitting of CEA Technologies' CEAFAR and CEAMOUNT phased array radars. Both of the frigate's masts were replaced. The new aft mast is taller and sits at 38.7 metres. The new foremast is lower. Additional ballast was added to improve the frigate's stability, and the ship's quarterdeck was enclosed
> 
> 
> See previous post
> 
> 
> Nah, not really. See above.
> 
> 
> LOL. I know better than most here what GAO is and does. Point is, they aren't naval enginees and architects, and their reports aren't automatically final or even necessarily consensus based (often include responses why various other agencies do not have the same view). Besides, this is a forum, not a US government agency. I take it one is free to explore in a forum setting. You claim I make up information, but that is all that you do: claim. As you pointed out, if you claim, on you is the burden of proof.
> 
> 
> Anyway, less different than NUNS and GANG BANGERS! In reality, however, any and every ship has a limited margin for growth....
> 
> 
> See above. You are getting all upset over ... nothing.
> 
> Folks here asked if we could stop bickering about ABIII. I already indicated my willingness to do so. Therefor this is the last post I am putting here on this topic.
> 
> I suggest you take a good sized chill-pill.



LOL looks like you spent a good amount of time posting more and more of your theories.

I look at the facts.

The initial Flight III ships won't reach IOC until 2023.

SPQ-9B rotating radar (non-AESA) will be used for the first 12 ships.

The 13th Flight III ship, anticipated to be delivered in 2027, is planned to have X-band AESA capability. This is a decade from now.

There are no plans to retrofit the first 12 Flight III ships with the new radar once it becomes available.

The Navy has not yet begun planning for the new X-band radar program and initial budgeting activities are not expected until at least 2018.

http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/678850.pdf






*All numbers and statements of fact presented in GAO work are thoroughly checked and referenced.*

http://www.gao.gov/about/products/about-gao-reports.html

No offense, but by 2027 large numbers of 055 will already be commissioned and in service with the PLAN. What are we debating about again?

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## Penguin

j20blackdragon said:


> LOL looks like you spent a good amount of time posting more and more of your theories.
> 
> I look at the facts.


So, basically, you have no counter arguments left. Thankx. Good day.


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## MULUBJA

cnleio said:


> Never mind, my friend. That's good, when ppl compare China Type 055 with America Arleigh Burke-III ... here nobody has interest to discuss a old DDG with Arleigh Burke. The new-designed Type 055 DDG (new VLS cell, new missile, new S-band/X-band AESA radar) is the most powerful warship China ever built, as far as I know the position of Type 055 in PLAN will as same as Arleigh Burke in U.S Navy, US need the "Arleigh Burke" and PLAN need more Type 055 DDGs to protect our interests on sea. Looking for the gap between both, after type 055 DDGs China can design better, future will be new class DDG.


 
What protection it has against super sonic and hypersonic cruise missile like Brahmos and Brahmos Mk2?


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## clibra

pzfz said:


> Isn't the Chinese VLS capable of quad-packing more than just an ESSM-sized missile? meaning bigger missiles?


Yes, the VLS on 055 has better performance than MK57 that used on DDG1000, which only have 80 units.
the MK41 on KDX3 is old and small, can't compare with MK57, let alone the VLS on 055.



wanglaokan said:


> Sorry I need to correct the price tag: the price PLAN get 052d Destroyer is 500 millions USD, and 800 millions USD for type 055 Cruiser.


should be 600M and 900M I think.



wanglaokan said:


> I forget the decimal



the 10 billion RMB(1.5B USD) cost is only guesswork of that "expert".


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## waja2000

Penguin said:


> Only for things I claim, not for thing I didn't claim.
> Besides, I'm doing this for recreation, don't HAVE to do anything and you cannot make me do anything.
> 
> However, as indicated, if Raytheon comes up with a concept involving a large (probably steel) structure atop the bridge with 3 radar arrays, while retaining 3 AN/SPG-62s in their original places (a concept which I assume they wouldn't put forward if it wasn't technically feasible), I don't see why a different modification involving a sleek and light structure (e.g. alu) with a four faced APAR isn't possible e.g behind the second stack.
> 
> The above deck weight of Thales APAR is lt. 11 tons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T



For Arleigh Burke-class 9K ++ tons size ship add 10 tons to structure is nothing, is no issue for that.
main issue is Arleigh Burke-class is power system and internal space no enough for entire new AMDR system. they need change entire power system, colling system, control system design to increase electric power about 50% in order AMDR S-band & X-band work concurrently, means more space for electric generator (add more or change much large model), addition cooling module, control module and other accessories, this is 30% change of ship design .. means cost increase huge (RnD cost too). 
Also my view AB class Flight I already use for 20+ year, it maybe will retire in 8-15 years (assume 35 year lifespan), so no point major upgrade to AMDR.
US Navy should start design new destroyer. after cancel remaining DDG1000.
055 destroyer take advantage due to new design form fresh, so all new radar spec requirement just simply design and fit in.

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## waja2000

clibra said:


> Yes, the VLS on 055 has better performance than MK57 that used on DDG1000, which only have 80 units.
> the MK41 on KDX3 is old and small, can't compare with MK57, let alone the VLS on 055.



MK41 not small, 25 in (635mm) just very ideal size balance missile and space.
well mk41 size is there advantage, in other word china VLS too big, it due to china missile technologies limitation can't make small missile yet, so china have to come out bigger VLS. bigger VLS means need bigger ship to install VLS due to VLS taking more space and pass through more layer of deck. 
like MK41 the size provide flexibility to install many kind of small and medium warship, no issue install 3000 tons warship, even like MK56 can install in 900 tons ship. 
Bigger VLS also hard for china export VLS due generally china export warship below 3000 tons. even china VLS 3.3 meter, but it too short length, seriously i'm surprising China VLS size is 850mm, it should not more than 700mm or Max 750mm and no 5.x meter class VLS version. 
for warship VLS size/weight is matter, due to every space/weight is counting.


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## rcrmj

MULUBJA said:


> What protection it has against super sonic and hypersonic cruise missile like Brahmos and Brahmos Mk2?


to intercept Brahmos (不拉猫屎) we need Martian-X1KP05 Plasma gun, otherwise we all are sitting ducks```

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## clibra

waja2000 said:


> MK41 not small, 25 in (635mm) just very ideal size balance missile and space.
> well mk41 size is there advantage, in other word china VLS too big, it due to china missile technologies limitation can't make small missile yet, so china have to come out bigger VLS. bigger VLS means need bigger ship to install VLS due to VLS taking more space and pass through more layer of deck.
> like MK41 the size provide flexibility to install many kind of small and medium warship, no issue install 3000 tons warship, even like MK56 can install in 900 tons ship.
> Bigger VLS also hard for china export VLS due generally china export warship below 3000 tons. even china VLS 3.3 meter, but it too short length, seriously i'm surprising China VLS size is 850mm, it should not more than 700mm or Max 750mm and no 5.x meter class VLS version.
> for warship VLS size/weight is matter, due to every space/weight is counting.



1. Most advanced/sci-fi tech/mighty DDG-1000 installed MK-57 VLS, why? for fun?
2. Bigger VLS can fit 4-in-1 pack small diameter missiles.
3. China has "small" VLS, on 054A ship.


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## waja2000

clibra said:


> 1. Most advanced/sci-fi tech/mighty DDG-1000 installed MK-57 VLS, why? for fun?
> 2. Bigger VLS can fit 4-in-1 pack small diameter missiles.
> 3. China has "small" VLS, on 054A ship.



1)MK57 still much smaller than China VLS
2)MK41 "small" also enough to quadpack 4-1 ESSM missile, future CAMM. 
3)That Small VLS is in 4500 tons warship.


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## cnleio

waja2000 said:


> For Arleigh Burke-class 9K ++ tons size ship add 10 tons to structure is nothing, is no issue for that.
> main issue is Arleigh Burke-class is power system and internal space no enough for entire new AMDR system. they need change entire power system, colling system, control system design to increase electric power about 50% in order AMDR S-band & X-band work concurrently, means more space for electric generator (add more or change much large model), addition cooling module, control module and other accessories, this is 30% change of ship design .. means cost increase huge (RnD cost too).
> Also my view AB class Flight I already use for 20+ year, it maybe will retire in 8-15 years (assume 35 year lifespan), so no point major upgrade to AMDR.
> US Navy should start design new destroyer. after cancel remaining DDG1000.
> 055 destroyer take advantage due to new design form fresh, so all new radar spec requirement just simply design and fit in.



•The AMDR-X radar will provide horizon search, precision tracing, missile communications, and final illumination guidance to targets.
•The AMDR-S radar will provide wide-area volume search, tracking, Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) discrimination, and missile communications. While CG (X) and its DDG-51 Flight III replacement are both “blue water” ships, requirements do call for defense against very low observable/very low flyer (VLO/VLF) threats in heavy land, sea, and rain clutter, where S-band has some advantages.
•The back-end Radar Suite Controller (RSC) will perform all coordination, ensuring that the radars work well together.

AMDR S-band and X-band radars work together, that need more electric power supply.



MULUBJA said:


> What protection it has against super sonic and hypersonic cruise missile like Brahmos and Brahmos Mk2?


Current defence method is CIWS + RAM(HHQ-10) + Missiles in VLS (HQ-9B or HQ-26 maybe) ... but that need Brahmos from india to prove it work.

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## 52051

waja2000 said:


> MK41 not small, 25 in (635mm) just very ideal size balance missile and space.
> well mk41 size is there advantage, in other word china VLS too big, it due to china missile technologies limitation can't make small missile yet, so china have to come out bigger VLS. bigger VLS means need bigger ship to install VLS due to VLS taking more space and pass through more layer of deck.
> like MK41 the size provide flexibility to install many kind of small and medium warship, no issue install 3000 tons warship, even like MK56 can install in 900 tons ship.
> Bigger VLS also hard for china export VLS due generally china export warship below 3000 tons. even china VLS 3.3 meter, but it too short length, seriously i'm surprising China VLS size is 850mm, it should not more than 700mm or Max 750mm and no 5.x meter class VLS version.
> for warship VLS size/weight is matter, due to every space/weight is counting.



Since when China is intend to export things like 055DDG?

China wont export J-20, and same can be said for 055DDG, nor do China export their strategic UAVs.Larger VLS can accommodate larger missiles, which translated into larger payload/better radar/electrics/longer range and more flexible/better upgrade potentials.



MULUBJA said:


> You can always wish that Brahmos may not work. Because once it is fired, it will be the only defense you will have. You guys are communist so parheps you will not pray got but you can certainly wish that it may not work.



Nobody give a damn about your bromos whatever crap, you can feel free to leave.

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## cnleio

MULUBJA said:


> You can always wish that Brahmos may not work. Because once it is fired, it will be the only defense you will have. You guys are communist so parheps you will not pray got but you can certainly wish that it may not work.


Well, before Brahmos born out ... China already produced & served YJ series supersonic anti-ship missiles in PLAN, if u read carefully U.S National Defence White Paper from the Pentagon, u can find out it mostly emphasizes the threat from China Missiles not Brahmos ... my suggestion is try Brahmos to Type055, after that it's YJ missiles turn back and see who left on water surface.

YJ-18 serving in PLAN





YJ-12 serving in PLAN, watch the 'S' attack-track from China official news

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## samsara

MULUBJA said:


> You can always wish that Brahmos may not work. Because once it is fired, it will be the only defense you will have. You guys are *communist* so parheps you will not pray got but you can certainly wish that it may not work.



Nope, I ain't a Communist... Communism, Marxism is an ideology.

I am simply an *agnostic*. Does it make any difference then?  lol

To say it seriously, a military force is having a serious problem when all they can do is praying, praying and praying!

Not sure you're aware or not, the Chinese people has a saying: *"Pray to God, but keep rowing toward the shore."*

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## Salty_Waters

cnleio said:


> Well, before Brahmos born out ... China already produced & served YJ series supersonic anti-ship missiles in PLAN, if u read carefully U.S National Defence White Paper from the Pentagon, u can find out it mostly emphasizes the threat from China Missiles not Brahmos ... my suggestion is try Brahmos to Type055, after that it's YJ missiles turn back and see who left on water surface.
> 
> YJ-18 serving in PLAN
> View attachment 379201
> 
> 
> YJ-12 serving in PLAN, watch the 'S' attack-track from China official news
> View attachment 379204
> 
> View attachment 379205




very interesting gifs. what shall they show? YJ-18 and YJ-12? which one is which?

1. both video stills don't belong together. makes sense when both are different weaps.
2. the two stills with view from above, for sure no impacts. I would say a delayed igniter. It's pretty funny, the yield of the warhead is wasted to the outer side of the ship. Can't imagine this as a success. So that one would not have been a kill.
3. In contrast, the first gif shows an unitkill.


so again, what is the claim, these stills are showing?


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## clibra

MULUBJA said:


> You can always wish that Brahmos may not work. Because once it is fired, it will be the only defense you will have. You guys are communist so parheps you will not pray got but you can certainly wish that it may not work.


Mighty brahmos will definitly sink every targets, include Chinese ships, be happy. 



Salty_Waters said:


> very interesting gifs. what shall they show? YJ-18 and YJ-12? which one is which?
> 
> 1. both video stills don't belong together. makes sense when both are different weaps.
> 2. the two stills with view from above, for sure no impacts. I would say a delayed igniter. It's pretty funny, the yield of the warhead is wasted to the outer side of the ship. Can't imagine this as a success. So that one would not have been a kill.
> 3. In contrast, the first gif shows an unitkill.
> 
> 
> so again, what is the claim, these stills are showing?



the target in GIF is a small boat, you can tell this from the size of the missile.
In real combat, target of YJ12/18 should have double or even triple body width of that small target boat.

your reply style is called "I'm smarter than designer style" in China forum.

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## Akasa

MULUBJA said:


> What protection it has against super sonic and hypersonic cruise missile like Brahmos and Brahmos Mk2?



1st-tier: HQ-9/9B
2nd-tier: HQ-16/B/C
3rd-tier: DK-10A or FM-3000 (or another quad-packed MRSAM)
4th tier: FL-3000N
5th tier: Type 1130 CIWS

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## Salty_Waters

clibra said:


> Mighty brahmos will definitly sink every targets, include Chinese ships, be happy.
> 
> 
> 
> the target in GIF is a small boat, you can tell this from the size of the missile.
> In real combat, target of YJ12/18 should have double or even triple body width of that small target boat.
> 
> your reply style is called "I'm smarter than designer style" in China forum.




Thanx for telling me what my reply style is like. I was wandering the whole life how it is. Now i can die wise, because of you very very knowing guy. Thank you very much master... 

And I am realy impressed from you, seeing from a roughly pixle picture the size of object. Again, you are so wise, I thank you very much. Please share more of your great knowledge and enlight us.


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## waja2000

SinoSoldier said:


> 1st-tier: HQ-9/9B
> 2nd-tier: HQ-16/B/C
> 3rd-tier: DK-10A or FM-3000 (or another quad-packed MRSAM)
> 4th tier: FL-3000N
> 5th tier: Type 1130 CIWS



tier 2-3 will be 1 type, by logic unlikely destroyer equip with 2 type medium SAM missile. currently using HQ16, and If not wrong DK10 and FM3000 is failed tender no select by PLAN, of couse still can sell/export. be i believe new quad-pack missile anyway will be come out to meet PLAN requirement


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## MULUBJA

cnleio said:


> Well, before Brahmos born out ... China already produced & served YJ series supersonic anti-ship missiles in PLAN, if u read carefully U.S National Defence White Paper from the Pentagon, u can find out it mostly emphasizes the threat from China Missiles not Brahmos ... my suggestion is try Brahmos to Type055, after that it's YJ missiles turn back and see who left on water surface.
> 
> YJ-18 serving in PLAN
> View attachment 379201
> 
> 
> YJ-12 serving in PLAN, watch the 'S' attack-track from China official news
> View attachment 379204
> 
> View attachment 379205


 
It seems that missile is unable to hit the bottom of the ship and only did some damage on uper side.


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## cirr

055 has got itself a new generation medium range SAM.

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## kuge

MULUBJA said:


> It seems that missile is unable to hit the bottom of the ship and only did some damage on uper side.


what's next?
It seems that missile is unable to hit the top of the ship and only did some damage on bottom side.????

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## MULUBJA

kuge said:


> what's next?
> It seems that missile is unable to hit the top of the ship and only did some damage on bottom side.????


 
sorry my mistake. lower side of body where the hit can be fatal.


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## kuge

MULUBJA said:


> sorry my mistake. lower side of body where the hit can be fatal.


u didnt get my point did u? but nvm

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## Penguin

SinoSoldier said:


> 1st-tier: HQ-9/9B
> 2nd-tier: HQ-16/B/C
> 3rd-tier: DK-10A or FM-3000 (or another quad-packed MRSAM)
> 4th tier: FL-3000N
> 5th tier: Type 1130 CIWS


Don't forget the soft-kill tiers....


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## Akasa

Penguin said:


> Don't forget the soft-kill tiers....



Yes, although I think the other user's comment was more focused on supersonic, sea-skimming AShMs and countermeasures geared especially towards them.


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## lcloo

Latest photo (modified) from eyes in the sky. 055 #1 (blue) and #2 (red) in Shanghai.

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## Penguin

SinoSoldier said:


> Yes, although I think the other user's comment was more focused on supersonic, sea-skimming AShMs and countermeasures geared especially towards them.


They too have guidance packages that can be fooled...


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## Deino

cnleio said:


> Type055
> 
> View attachment 376587
> View attachment 376588
> View attachment 376589
> 
> 
> 
> Most KD-III_ / Sejong DDG weapon & radar systems come from U.S techs including Mk41 VLS / SM-2 / AN/SPY-1 / CIWS/ RAM purchased from foreign weapon supporters, 4x LM2500 turbine engines from America General Dynamics. China type055 each systems 100% built by domestic supporters, building without any restrictions from outside. Soon u see China type055 numbers will more than 3x KD-III. PLAN can building type055 as many as we need, but ROKN not they need American ~!_




Here not as a photo of an fold-out !

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Here not as a photo of an fold-out !
> 
> View attachment 380592
> View attachment 380593
> View attachment 380594


Nice CGIs though the resolution of the 1st pic is not high enough thus the labels in Chinese characters aren't readable.

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## lcloo

Update 2017 January 30th Dalian shipyard. One month ago's photo.

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## Deino

samsara said:


> Nice CGIs though the resolution of the 1st pic is not high enough thus the labels in Chinese characters aren't readable.




Here in full-size:






PS: strange ... it does does not show up in full size !?? the original one has a size of 4300x1500 pixels

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Here in full-size:
> 
> View attachment 381166
> 
> 
> PS: strange ... it does does not show up in full size !?? the original one has a size of 4300x1500 pixels


Thank you Deino, now it's readable, with the help of magnifier 

2000 x 698 Pixels (1.40 MPixels) , files size 191 KB (196,181 bytes)


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## onebyone

*China will deploy larger Type 055 destroyers in 2018*
china, geopolitical, military, navy, technology, united states, world

China has a new larger Type 055 destroyer. I has an estimated displacement of 12,000 tons and and overall length of 180 meters. The latest USA Arleigh Burke Flight IIA weighs in at 9,200 tons, with an overall length of 155 meters. The proposed Flight III upgrade adds an estimated 600 tons displacement without any changes to LOA or beam dimensions.

Initial cost estimates for the first of the four planned Type 055 DDGs is in excess of $5 billion Yuan ($750 million USD). The GOA reported in 2016, that the per-unit cost of an Arleigh Burke Flight IIA is approximately $1.19 billion USD.

Satellite imagery taken of the Jiangnan Shipyard show the Type 055's under construction.

The Eastpendulum site has satellite imagery from November 2016. It seems to show a third Type 055 Destroyer is being built at Dalian shipyard in Northern China. The first two hulls are currently under construction at Jiangnan Changxing naval shipyard new Shanghai. Type 055 is the next generation class of Guided-Missile Destroyer (DDG) for the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN or Chinese Navy).

The first vessel is likely to be launched in early 2017 while delivery to the PLAN (navy) should not happen until 2018 at the earliest.

The chinese navy is still building the current Type 052D destroyer which is half the size. Both Dalian and Jiangnan naval shipyards are showing several under construction. This is a sign that the Type 055 will not replace the role of Type 052D: The Chinese navy will acquire and operate destroyers of both types displacing 6,000 and 12,000 tons. Sources indicate that Type 052D and Type 055 seem to share a great deal of systems, such as phased array radars, vertical launch systems, main gun, CIWS, as well as possibly the hull mounted and towed sonars. 










brian wang on 3/10/2017 

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/03/china-will-deploy-larger-type-055.html

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## cnleio

4x type055 keep building in shipyard

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## english_man

Just to confirm, i believe that we now know there are 4 x 055's currently under construction. 2 at JN and 2 at Dalian.......is that correct?

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## samsara

PLA REALTALK
*Preparing for 055 – what to know about the upcoming Chinese large destroyer*

*Introduction:*
Satellite imagery of JNCX shipyard near Shanghai over the last few months has shown an impressive pace of work on the first unit of the 055 class large destroyer. Current estimates for the launch of the first unit project it to occur by mid 2017 at the earliest, but also possibly later on in the year.

A not insubstantial volume of defence media hoopla and speculation has surrounded this ship over the last few years since the first photos of the 055 class land based mock up surfaced in mid 2014. Some outlets have even taken the questionable route of comparing 055 to the US Navy’s Zumwalt class destroyer or jumping the gun even further and describing the 055 as a “dreadnought”.

Needless to say, once the first 055 destroyer is launched later this year and once photos of its launch spread their way across the internet, it is likely that the defence media will write even more rabid articles about the 055, and it is likely mainstream news media will report on this as well. One can also expect the launch of the first 055 to be linked with current geopolitical tensions in the Western Pacific (or at least placed within that context), and will also likely be described within the overall modernization effort the Chinese military is engaged in.

This write up therefore will seek to establish a few clear parameters for the 055 itself, including what we know (and don’t know) about its physical characteristics, role, the number to be built, and what its overall capabilities may look like. This will be followed by cautionary statements about how the 055 destroyer should be viewed within the larger framework of the (virtually inevitable) media excitement that will likely engulf this topic.

*But first – why do we care?*
It is a natural question to ask – why is the 055 news-worthy, and why has there been media chatter about this ship at all over the last few years? Sure, it is a new class of Chinese warship, and any new Chinese military development over the last few years has been met with a decent flurry of media activity, but what’s so special about the 055?

The answer, is size. Prior to the 055, the largest indigenous and modern surface combatant that the Chinese Navy has inducted is the ~7,000 ton full displacement 052D class destroyer, the first of which was launched in 2012 and entered service in 2014 (as of March 2017, five such ships are in service with another six in various stages of sea trials or fitting out and additional ships under construction). The 055 class destroyer on the other hand, is likely to be a significantly larger destroyer than the 052D class. Current estimates based on its dimensions and reliable rumours put its full displacement well over 12,000 tons and likely approaching 13,000 tons (more on this later) – in other words, the 055 will be the largest surface combatant the Chinese Navy has ever inducted up to that point.

Furthermore, at 12,000-13,000 tons full displacement, the 055 would also be one of the largest modern surface combatants built in recent memory. Only the Zumwalt class destroyer would be larger, with a full displacement of over 15,000 tons. Size does matter when judging a warship’s capability and potential, and large size also conveys a more psychological and headline grabbing factor as well. Calling the 055 a “super destroyer” or “cruiser” or (wincingly) a “dreadnought” plays to the imagination of the reader.

*055 – characteristics*
Speculation surrounding the 055’s physical characteristics have begun to consolidate after the initial wide range of estimates in 2014-2015, partly due to the prevalence of satellite photos over the last year showing the first ship advancing in construction, but also partly due to greater clarity from credible rumour sources and insiders. An initial overview made by yours truly here in 2016, and while most of the information remains relevant, it is wise to update some of it in light of new evidence.

For now, the current consensus of 055’s physical dimensions appear to hover around:

Length: over 175 meters but under 180 meters
Beam: about 20 meters, perhaps a little bit more but not likely more than 21 meters
Full displacement: over 12,000 tons but probably not above 13,000 tons, given the ship’s physical dimensions and the ship’s topside hull and superstructure configuration
Draft: hard to judge at this stage but likely proportional to the ship’s length and beam
By comparison, the Ticonderoga class cruiser has a length of 173 meters, a beam of 16.8 meters, and a full displacement of 9,600 tons, while the Flight IIA Burke class destroyer has a length of 155 meters, a beam of 20 meters and a full displacement of 9,200 tons. The Zumwalt class destroyer has a length of 180 meters, a beam of 14 meters and a full displacement in excess of 15,000 tons. It is worth mentioning that Chinese language media (both official and non-official) have often referred to the 055 destroyer as a “10,000 ton class destroyer” however this is a translation of the term “_wan dun qu hu jian_” or “ten thousand ton destroyer” which is more a reflection of the ship being in the “10,000 ton” weight class rather than having its empty, standard, or full displacement be at 10,000 tons exactly.

In terms of armament, the 055 is expected to field the same universal VLS first fielded aboard the 052D class destroyer, but in greater numbers. Consistent estimates based on rumours and based on 055’s configuration suggest a likely VLS number of 112-128 VLS cells, though there have been less credible suggestions that it may be as low as 96 cells, but at present the consensus suggests a 112-128 VLS count. Some seemingly official state media outlets have also suggested that the 055 will have a VLS count of 128, however we won’t know what the situation really is until we get pictures of the real thing. Other secondary armament that is widely expected to be present includes the H/PJ-38 130mm main gun, the H/PJ-11 30mm CIWS, and the HHQ-10 missile CIWS, as well as torpedo tubes.

There have been suggestions that the 055 may field rail guns or lasers/DEWs in the future, however this would be dependent on the ship’s mode of propulsion. The “initial batch” of 055s are expected to field four QC-280 gas turbines (the same kind which partially powers the 052D) arranged in a COGAG fashion, however it is widely expected that a subsequent 055 variant will field an Integrated Electric Propulsion system that would enable more power hungry weapons like rail guns or DEWs Chinese Naval R&D into IEPS has been quite well known in the PLA watching community, where Rear Admiral Ma Weiming is a significant driver (he is the same person behind the the Chinese Navy’s EM catapult programme), so a future “055A” with IEPS is currently considered to be on the cards for the future.

In terms of sensors, the 055 is expected to adopt some sensors that have been fielded on previous ships like the Type 346A APAR from the 052D class destroyer, but also possibly new sensors like an X band APAR and potentially a new volume search radar, but these have yet to be confirmed. The 055 will likely field a similar ASW/sonar sensor suite to the 052D, including a towed sonar and a variable depth sonar (an aft hatch for a VDS may already have been sighted in the 055’s hull). The 055 has also consistently been suggested to field much enhanced command and control and combat management capability over its predecessors, and given it is a newer ship and a much larger ship allowing for more internal processing power and volume for command staff, this is not unexpected. However the relative advancement of software and hardware behind such advances would not likely to ever be known.

The 055 is confirmed to have two helicopter hangars, but the type of helicopter they are meant to employ is not known. Previous rumours have suggested they would employ the Z-18F large ASW helicopter, but recent pictures of the ship under construction seem to suggest the hangars would only be able to accommodate a medium helicopter like Z-9, Ka-27 or Seahawk sized aircraft.

The 055 is also expected to field advancements in signature management compared to its predecessors, and this can partly be seen even in the Wuhan mock up’s greater integration of topside structures like the deckhouse and the smoke stack. The 055’s bow/prow also appears to be the first major Chinese surface combatant to be “enclosed” where bow knick knacks like anchors are placed below decks. However the 055 almost definitely does not seek to achieve a level of stealth that the Zumwalt class destroyer does.

*055 – numbers*
A big part of the 055 media story will be about its size, but perhaps the bigger and more geopolitically important issue is just how many 055s will be built. After all, one only needs to look at the Zumwalt class destroyer to see a very advanced and potentially very capable ship that has had its numbers significantly cut and causing unit price and subsystem price to inflate, causing further consequences for each ship’s capability. Indeed, with only three Zumwalt class destroyers to be built and the Flight III Burke destroyer slated to supplement and replace the US Navy’s ageing Ticonderoga class cruisers in the post 2020 era, it is instructive to understand the importance of quantity rather than only quality.

Past rumours have suggested that the 055s will not be built in small numbers. Indications for an “initial batch” was placed at anywhere between 4 to 8 ships, with subsequent batch orders to be followed, and the ships would be built at least two shipyards: JNCX (Jiangnan Changxing) near the city of Shanghai, and DL (Dalian) at the city of Dalian. The pace of construction was expected to be respectable but not too fast or too slow. JNCX was expected to build a couple of ships first and launch them before DL began construction of them.

Initial photos of the first 055 unit under construction at JNCX appeared on the Chinese internet in June 2016, as expected. However, subsequent satellite photos from a number of sources then indicated that the pace of construction at JNCX was faster than expected. Indeed, by early October, the modules for the first 055’s hull were all identified by satellite, but a new module appeared at that same time and it was realized this module was likely for a second 055 unit. Subsequent photos in November and December then showed the first 055′ major hull modules joined and assembled together and placed under cover for further work, while additional modules for the second 055 unit at JNCX also emerged and began assembly, and starting to look like what the first 055’s modules looked like in June, six months earlier.

Even more surprising than JNCX’s relatively fast pace of construction, was work at DL, whixh presented a surprise when satellite photos in late November 2016 appeared to show a large number of 055 modules in its staging yard, corresponding with insiders who confirmed with ground based photos that the modules were indeed for 055s. Photos in December 2016 and January 2017 further confirmed additional 055 modules being placed in the staging yard, with enough 055 modules estimated for at least 2 055s, potentially up to 3. While it was expected that DL would start construction of 055s eventually, it came as a surprise to see so many 055 modules at such a stage of relative completion, before JNCX had yet to even launch the first 055 unit.

Accompanying the emergence of these satellite photos in late 2016 and early 2017, were rumours that the Chinese Navy has increased the order of 055s in its initial batch, beyond the initially suspected 8 units (which was the high end estimate anyway), to potentially double digits (a number thrown around so far as been 12). Whether it means more ships will be inducted in the same amount of time (i.e.: increased production/commissioning rate), or if it the rate of construction will remain the same, is not yet known, but seeing the pace of construction at both JNCX and DL shipyards, it is easy to think it may be the former.

As of present, at least four 055 hulls (or modules for that many ships), have been positively identified. The final number of 055s to be built will not be known for many years, however it can be safely assumed to be significantly more than three (re: Zumwalt). The 055 is likely to spawn subsequent variants with advanced subsystems as they mature, such as IEPS, new sensors and exotic weapons like rail guns and DEWs. One only needs to look at how the original 052 class destroyer later gave way to the 052D.

*055 – role*
With the 055’s characteristics and numbers out of the way, one is able to make more informed speculation about the 055’s role. And in a way, this is perhaps the easiest task to do. When looking at the Chinese Navy’s missions and requirements over the next few decades, an increased demand for long range blue water operations becomes very apparent.

The 055 will take up the role of a traditional long range surface combatant – or as it may be called, a “cruiser”. The 055 will take the responsibility for being the primary “shield” of a task force like a carrier strike group, with the most capable air defence and command and combat management facilities among all the escorts in the group (which would include medium weight destroyers like 052C/Ds and 054As and the future frigate). 055s will also be large enough to conduct independent long range patrols when necessary, as well as likely able to be arranged with other 055s and smaller 052Ds to form surface action groups for missions if they demand it.

Numbers matter – if the Chinese Navy only had a handful of 055s at its disposal, the ability for the Navy to conduct those missions will be limited due to low availability of the ship type. However, over the next decade it is likely that a fairly large number of 055s will enter service. While they will definitely not be the most numerous ship type in the Chinese Navy by any means, they will likely be built in significant enough numbers to complement the large number of blue water capable air defence frigates and aegis-type medium weight destroyers to fill a much needed capability gap in the Navy.

It is also rather surprising that an official PLA affiliated news outlet was quite candid and accurate in describing the role of the 055, stating “Type 055 undertakes multiple combat functions and is also responsible for escorting aircraft carrier battle group”. This of course is entirely sensible and consistent with what would be expected from this ship.

Finally, it is interesting to note that the PLA has been sensitive about how English language defence media have been portraying the 055 class as a “cruiser” as well as its potential to be a “game changer” in naval warfare.

From the same previous article, published in late February 2017:

*“*_The reporter noticed that this wasn’t the first time that western media call China’s Type 055 guided-missile destroyer a cruiser._

_Regarding this, Li Jie replied that in terms of tonnage alone, Type 055 is larger than many serving cruisers. America’s Ticonderoga-class cruiser, for instance, has a full load displacement of less than 10,000 tons. As a matter of fact, destroyer and cruiser aren’t that different today, and most countries don’t even develop cruiser anymore._

_Going forward, destroyers will have ever larger tonnage and stronger functions with particular strength in a specific aspect, whereas cruiser has limited functions and is not as flexible as destroyer when carrying out missions._

_“The fact that western countries call China’s Type 055 destroyer a cruiser indicates that they are looking at China’s military development with colored glasses and magnifying the function and role of China’s equipment. It’s a manifestation of the China Threat theory,” Li Jie added._*“*

And from an earlier article in 2015:

*“*_The U.S. media recently reported that the new type-055 guided missile destroyer of the Navy of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLAN) and the U.S. Aegis warship are on a par with each other in terms of power and strength and that the type-055 destroyer is one of the five weapons China might use to change rules of the game in the future._

_　　However, Yin Zhuo, a Chinese military expert, said in an interview that the so-called type-055 destroyer is not the world’s largest guided missile destroyer and speculation that it will change the rules of the game is just an exaggeration._*“*

There are two rather interesting points to takeaway from this. First, is that the Chinese military is well aware of the cultural connotations of the word “cruiser” and the precedents for calling large surface combatants as “destroyers,” most notably by the quite large Zumwalt class destroyer. Naturally, if the Zumwalt class is referred to as a destroyer, the 055 which is about 2,000 tons lighter, would also rightly be called a destroyer.

Second, is the Chinese military’s sensitivity to the portrayal of the 055’s capabilities as a significant development. They continue to be averse to insinuations that their military capability is that great, and that is likely part of their distaste to the portrayal of Chinese military developments in a “threatening” manner by foreign media, but also at the same time is partly a reflection of their desire to maintain high operational security which seeks to cause foreign adversaries to miscalculate and often underestimate the true capabilities and true level of development of their various weapons programmes.

*So what about the media?*
Equipped with the above knowledge, one is able to hopefully view the media’s inevitable reporting on 055 in a more accurate and even handed light.

If an article or website sensationalizes the 055 as a “dreadnought” then one should be able to respond very skeptically to such a claim. If an article compares the 055 with the Zumwalt class, one should be able to think of the differences in role, size, and number between the two warship types and realise how I’ll advised such a comparison would be. If an article compares the 055 with the Burke class, one should also be able to consider the differences in role, size and number between the two warship types.

If an article tries to discuss the role of the 055 in the Chinese Navy and the geopolitical consequences of it, one should be able to take a step back and view the 055’s role in the Navy alongside other, smaller blue water capable ships like frigates (054A, and future 054B), and medium weight destroyers (052C, 052D). If an article tries to compare how capable an 055 is versus a Ticonderoga or a Sejong or an Atago or a Burke, one should hopefully be able to also understand such a “match up” is immensely unlikely to occur in a realistic conflict scenario as the navies of the opposing side’s will be fielding their warships as a “system of systems” rather than sending them piece meal, one against another in an equal fashion.

But at the same time, that doesn’t mean one should be blind to the rather unprecedented nature of the 055 both in context of the Chinese Navy and in context of global naval trends.

In the Chinese Navy, one needs to recall that this is the single largest class of surface combatant ever developed and produced, much larger than the previous 7,000 ton 052D. This is made all the more impressive by the fact that at least four 055s are currently under various stages of construction well before the first 055 unit has yet to be even launched, which is a significant departure from previous classes of major surface combatants where they were either variants of preceding existing hull types that were first produced in small numbers (such as the heritage of 052D/052C/052B/052, and 054A/054).

In terms of the world’s naval context, one only needs to look at how few navies are producing modern surface combatants with displacements well over the 10,000 ton class in the numbers that the 055 will be expected to be, to see how unique the 055 is simply as a class of warship in its own weight and capability category. The Zumwalt class as a 15,000+ ton class destroyer is advanced and impressive but is limited to only three units. The Flight III Burke which will likely succeed the Ticonderoga class in the near future makes advancements over the Flight IIA Burke but has a smaller VLS load than the Ticonderoga class and will only displace 10,000 tons full, which pushes at the end zones for the ship’s growth margins, and the US Navy’s “Future Surface Combatant” programme is only projected to produce a new warship in the 2030s. The Sejong class destroyer of South Korea is a very impressive ship as well, displacing at about 11,000 tons with three in service and another three looking to be commissioned over coming years and is technically one of the most heavily armed destroyers with 128 VLS as well as 16 dedicated slant AShM launchers, but their number will likely not exceed six in total by the mid 2020s. The Russian Navy is looking to build the formidable 17,500 ton Lider class “destroyer” to replace their ageing Soviet era large surface combatants, but the number of warships to be built and how reliably they can be delivered is a very open question, especially in light of difficulties and delays suffered by other surface combatant projects like the Gorshkov class frigate.

Thus, it is perhaps the psychological and cultural impact of the Chinese Navy fielding a large, modern surface combatant in significant numbers by the early to mid 2020s, which will be of most interest to media and may result in significant re-evaluation of the Chinese Navy’s stature. Of course, such developments do not directly translate to advances in warfighting capability in an immediate sense, as it would take a number of years for commissioned ships and commanders to fully learn how to best operate at the various levels of warfare (tactical, operational and strategic). However when one starts to look around the world and see how many navies are fielding a class of modern surface combatant with displacement well in excess of 10,000 tons, one is able to put the Chinese Navy’s own ambitions into context.

Posted on March 11, 2017 by Rick Joe
http://plarealtalk.com/2017/03/11/p...w-about-the-upcoming-chinese-large-destroyer/

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## Deino

New images ...

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## Deino

Deino said:


> New images ...



Anyone noticed that they moved already two modules into the dry dock ... ??

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## lcloo

Are they going to have parallel assemby of two 055 at the same time in the dry dock?

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## samsara

lcloo said:


> Are they going to have parallel assemby of two 055 at the same time in the dry dock?


Don't you think that by working upon two units at the same location side by side at the same time do expedite the overall construction time?  I _guess_ it's more efficient than building up one by one.

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## 帅的一匹

samsara said:


> Don't you think that by working upon two units at the same location side by side at the same time do expedite the overall construction time?  I _guess_ it's more efficient than building up one by one.


For sure

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## lcloo

samsara said:


> Don't you think that by working upon two units at the same location side by side at the same time do expedite the overall construction time?  I _guess_ it's more efficient than building up one by one.


That is definitely efficient way. Great going ! It will be very exiting like last year watching 001A building up month by month in dry dock.

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## Salty_Waters

lcloo said:


> Are they going to have parallel assemby of two 055 at the same time in the dry dock?



Well, that's what I said back in February. Read posts #508 and #519.

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## Deino

Update ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843762510100480000

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Update ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843762510100480000


What does "the construction status" mean?

~~~~~~~~~~~

One more CG about the "status":


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843781701029384193

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## Deino

A new one ... via SDF !

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## samsara

Deino said:


> A new one ... via SDF !
> 
> View attachment 387203




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/846636574112546817This picture along with the one posted by Deino right above show _the activities at Jiangnan shipyard at the *end of December, 2016* _


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## Deino

I want images ....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/847453314241277952


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## samsara

*The construction status of the very first Type-055 DDG*














@OedoSoldier 2017.03.30

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## grey boy 2

Updates

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## grey boy 2



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## grey boy 2

Updates

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## cnleio

grey boy 2 said:


> Updates


In July we can see China 1st 10,000+ ton type055 DDG launch ... everything seems going very well.

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## cnleio



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## terranMarine

The Beast is almost ready, much anticipated event of the year including the AC ofcourse.

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## grey boy 2



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## Akasa

grey boy 2 said:


>



They couldn't add 16 additional VLS cells to the rear complex? For a complete count of 128 cells?


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## samsara

*The Type 055 DDG seems to come with Dual-Band Radar*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/855299979384037380

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## beijingwalker

Construction of China's Type 055 Desroyers Makes Rapid Progress

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## Hassan Guy

Is it not for export?


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## nang2

Hassan Guy said:


> Is it not for export?


Not yet.


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## Rocky rock




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## nang2

Rocky rock said:


> View attachment 393166


this is 052D


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## samsara

*Construction of China's Type 055 destroyers forges ahead*

By Andrew Tate, London and Sean O'Connor, Indianapolis - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly - 26 April 2017






*Airbus Defence and Space imagery* captured on *11 April 2017* showing *two Type 055 DDG hulls* under assembly
within a dry dock at *Dalian shipyard* in China. Source: CNES 2017, Distribution Airbus DS/2017 IHS Markit​
Commercial satellite imagery taken on 11 April shows that *significant progress* has been made in the construction of the *first four Type 055 destroyers* for China's People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN).

At the *Jiangnan Changxingdao shipyard near Shanghai*, where construction of the lead ship of the class *commenced in late 2014*, Hull 1 appears to have all the modules in place and most of the modules for Hull 2 are in position.

*In late 2016*, hull modules appeared on the side of a graving dock at the *Dalian Shipbuilding Industry Company (DSIC)* yard and *by 7 March keel blocks were being positioned in the dock to support the construction of two hulls side by side. By 11 April, modules for two Type 055 hulls had been lifted from the dockside onto the keel blocks and assembly was clearly underway.*

Measurements from the images indicate that the Type 055 will be *about 180 m long* and *19 m wide*, meaning that it will be *significantly larger than the 7,500-tonne Luyang III-class (Type 052D) destroyers* (157 m long and 17 m wide). This places the size of the Type 055 between the Republic of Korea Navy's Sejong Daewang (KDX-3) class (166 m/10,500 tonnes) and the Russian Federation Navy's Slava class (186 m/11,700 tonnes).

The images from Changxingdao show the module that will contain *the forward vertical launch system (VLS) cells*, *with a second grid of cells set to be positioned forward of the hangar*.

The forward grid appears to be divided into *16 sections*, four across and four deep, with overall dimensions of 13 m in length and 10.5 m in width.

Comparison with the dimensions of the *two 32-cell VLS grids fitted to the Type 052D* suggests that *the VLS in the Type 055 will have 64 cells in the forward grid*.


_Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options.

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(324 of 579 words)_

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## cirr

*CHINA’S TYPE 055 DESTROYER: FROM BLUEPRINT TO REALITY*

1 day ago






_This text originally appeared at southfront.org in February, 2017._

When the PLA Navy first eluded to its intention to build another class of guided missile destroyer (DDG) to follow the Type 052D, there was much speculation as to the dimensions, displacement, and intended role of such a vessel. In March of 2014, images began to circulate on the internet that clearly illustrated a test-bed mock-up of the new vessel’s superstructure at the PLA Navy’s testing center at Wuhan, in southern China. Military analysts and enthusiasts keep a watchful eye on the Wuhan facility, as mock-ups for China’s _Liaoning_CV-16 aircraft carrier, and now the follow-on CV-17 have provided a useful tool by which to extrapolate the eventual size and weapons and systems complement of the finished vessels. Comparing the Type 055 mock-up at Wuhan to the hull modules currently being constructed at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai, gives a relatively accurate estimation of total size and displacement.





Type 055 testing and training platform located at the Wuhan University of Science and Technology.

Initial estimates on size and displacement have narrowed as a result of new information and photographic evidence becoming available. Speculation of a displacement tonnage in excess of 14,000 tons and a Length Overall (LOA) of 187 meters have been revised down to a displacement of 12,000 tons at 180 meters LOA. This makes sense when one looks at the size of its most similar contemporary in the West, the _Arleigh Burke_class DDG. The latest _Arleigh Burke_ Flight IIA weighs in at 9,200 tons, with an LOA of 155 meters. The proposed Flight III upgrade adds an estimated 600 tons displacement without any changes to LOA or beam dimensions.

Initial cost estimates for the first of the four planned Type 055 DDGs is in excess of $5 billion Yuan ($750 million USD). The GOA reported in 2016, that the per-unit cost of an _Arleigh Burke_ Flight IIA is approximately $1.19 billion USD. If the Chinese estimate is correct, this denotes a significant cost savings per vessel for a platform that is at least as capable, if not superior to its U.S. counterpart in comparison. Its larger size suggests greater range, electrical power generation, and accommodation for both weapons, and sensory and electronic warfare systems than other DDGs in service.

*Why Field a Larger DDG?*

The PLAN has impressed both its admirers and detractors with the swift development and production of the Type 052D class DDG. The PLAN has built 12 of the vessels so far, with 4 already in active service. The remainder are in various stages of fitting-out or sea-trials. There is speculation that there may be an additional two units under construction at both the Dalian and Jiangnan shipyards. With the adoption of such a capable, high-tech DDG, why would the PLAN require an additional class of destroyer? There are a number of reasons why fielding the Type 055 alongside its smaller sibling makes perfect sense.

The Type 055 DDGs could serve in a multitude of roles. Similar to the U.S. Navy Ticonderoga Class CGs, they could offer longer range and greater Anti-submarine (ASW) and Anti-aircraft (AAW) defense for fleet task forces or aircraft carrier strike groups to be fielded by the PLAN in the near future. Type 052D and 055 destroyers could operate in conjunction with one another in a similar fashion as the _Arleigh Burke_ DDG and_Ticongeroda _guided missile cruiser (CG), in providing a multilayered and robust fleet defense. With greater range and capability, they offer the PLAN the ability to increase the range and endurance of China’s naval power projection efforts, and further transform the PLAN into a true “Blue Water” navy. They will undoubtedly serve to showcase the growing military, political and economic power of China in broader diplomatic terms.

*Current Construction Efforts*

Two vessels have appeared in photographs and satellite imagery taken of the Jiangnan Shipyard. The hull of the first vessel in class is apparently completed. Two or three hull section modules of a second Type 055 can also clearly visible in satellite imagery of the shipyard, under construction alongside the lead-on vessel.





The above satellite image of Jiangnan shipyard dated November 11, 2016 clearly shows that the first Type 55 hull has been completed, while additional hull sections for a second Type 55 are under construction.

It turns out that a third Type 055 is under construction at the Dalian shipyard. Dalian is also currently building the CV-17 aircraft carrier, the first indigenously constructed aircraft carrier for the PLAN. Dalian has also been building the Type 052D class destroyers in conjunction with Jiangnan. Using both of the shipyards has allowed China to speed up its acquisition of these modern naval vessels.





This satellite image of Dalian shipyard captures what appears to be a third Type 055 DDG (top left) under construction. Image was taken November 20, 2016.

*Capabilities*

The Type 055 is being fitted with either two 64 cell modular vertical launch systems (VLS) or one 64 cell and one 48 cell VLS. One VLS is mounted forward in the bow of the destroyer, between the deck gun and the superstructure, and one VLS between the main superstructure and the aft helicopter hangar. The modular VLS will most likely be the same system currently utilized by the Type 052D, and will be able to house and fire all current missiles in the PLAN inventory, including the YJ-18 anti-ship cruise missile and HQ-9 anti-aircraft missile.





This unofficial artist’s rendition illustrates the modular nature of the PLAN VLS and its ability to be loaded with a mix of missiles. This allows the PLAN to equip its vessels with mission specific payloads. The red squares denote the approximate orientation of the two VLS on the Type 055.

The Type 055 mock-up at Wuhan gives clues as to the possible radar array planned for the vessel, as well as the electronic support measures (ESM) to be carried. It is assumed by most analysts that the Type 055 will make use of an updated Type 346A active phased array radar (APAR) as well an X-band radar. The Type 055 will most likely use 4 phased array radar panels, with two panels on the front of the superstructure and two aft. Where the Type 052 mounts four panels at the same height, both fore and aft, the Type 055 may align the panels at an offset height in an attempt to maximize radar coverage. The integrated mast on the Type 055 mock-up mounts 3 radar panels, most likely for friend-or-foe identification (IFF), fire-control and electronic countermeasures (ECM), on the forward face of the mast only, yet the actual vessels will carry these same panels on all four sides of the mast. The mock-up also sports an exposed ESM mast at the top of the integrated mast, but it is unclear whether the ESM mast will remain exposed or not on the actual vessel.





A comparison of the integrated mast structures of the Type 055 mock-up and the active Type 052D Kunming. Note the location of the forward two active phased array radar panels on the Kunming. The large sloped superstructure facing, just under the starboard side bridge deck portals on the Type 55, will be fitted with a similar APAR panel.





The above illustrations clearly show the similarities and differences in the Type 052D (top) and Type 055 (bottom) guided missile destroyers.

*Commonality and Functionality*

Sharing common weapons, radars, electronic warfare systems, and sonar and communications systems across both platforms will allow the PLAN to achieve a great deal of cost savings. Common battle management systems and networking platforms will allow the vessels to easily coordinate both offensive efforts and defensive measures when working together as components of a larger fleet. It will also lower training costs, as sailors and officers will be able to more easily transition to deployments on either class of vessel. It is estimated that the propulsion systems of the newer vessel are similar to the smaller Type 052D. The PLAN aims to leverage all of the benefits of standardization.

The United States Navy has embarked upon a very different path, and is already paying a heavy price for deciding to not only field a number of totally new vessel designs, but at the same time abandoning proven technologies for unproven ones. The _Freedom_ and _Independence_ LCS programs, the first in class _Gerald Ford_CVN, and the DDG-1000 _Zumwalt_ destroyer project are all glaring examples.

Both class of LCS have experienced major engineering casualties since they were commissioned. Initial investigations have pointed to a combination of faulty engineering systems and inadequate engineering management processes. A major goal of the LCS program was to reduce vessel crews by automating as many processes as possible, and to gain flexibility through a modular design that allowed the platforms to be made mission specific by swapping warfare modules. For example, an LCS could be fitted with an ASW module to focus on anti-submarine duties one year, and then have the module removed and replaced with an AAW module the next, so that it could be shifted to air-defense duties as requirements changed. The benefits of this modularity have largely not been realized to date. For example, the LCS has failed to meet its intended ASW capabilities, even though the first vessels were commissioned in 2008 (_Freedom_ LCS-1) and 2010 (_Independence_ LCS-2).

The DDG-1000 _Zumwalt_ was originally planned as the first of 32 vessels; however, the U.S. Navy later settled for only 3 vessels, as cost overruns and the failure of the design to meet mission requirements became evident. What resulted from the ambitious program are a $4 billion USD cost per vessel, advanced deck guns that are too expensive to use as intended (with an estimated cost per round of $800,000 USD), and an Advanced Induction Motor (AIM) propulsion system that left the _Zumwalt _dead in the water on its maiden trip through the Panama Canal on November 22, 2016. The DDG-1000 class are not Aegis vessels, have limited AAW capabilities due to their smaller missile payload, and lack any Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) capability. They cannot integrate and coordinate AAW or BMD defense like all other Aegis class vessels. This is a major weakness, compared to all other _Arleigh Burke_ and _Ticonderoga_ class surface combatants, that can work together seamlessly using shared Aegis-based systems.

The most expensive naval vessel ever constructed, the _Gerald R. Ford _CVN-78, has already cost U.S. tax payers a cool $13 billion USD, yet the Navy Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) has no idea when it will be able to officially take delivery of the vessel. Major defects in the main turbine generators (MITs), and an Advanced Arresting Gear (AAG) that has yet to be deemed operational, have only added costs to a program that has already experienced cost overruns approaching $3 billion USD. The adoption of multiple unproven technologies in the key areas of propulsion, and aircraft launch and recovery systems, was a foreseeable mistake.

*Chinese Aircraft Carrier Strike Group Takes Shape*

While the Type 055 DDG will undoubtedly add a key component to future PLAN aircraft carrier strike groups (CSG), replenishment and support vessels that have the speed and range to match the warships of a CSG are an additional requirement. Although not earning the spotlight afforded aircraft carriers or large destroyers, the Type 901 fleet replenishment oiler (although classified by the PLAN as a “general supply vessel”) is a noteworthy addition to China’s growing blue water navy. The first Type 901 began sea trials in December of 2016. Measuring in at 240 meters LOA, and displacing 48,000 tons, the Type 901 has five liquid bulk cargo tanks for fuel and potable water and two dry cargo holds. A maximum cruising speed of 25 knots has been reported. It is equipped with hangar space for three heavy helicopters, as well as a sizeable flight deck. The Type 901 is reported to utilize an automated logistics management system that tracks and optimizes fuel consumption and logistics replenishment needs of fleet vessels. A second Type 901 is currently under construction at the Guangzhou naval shipyard.





Type 901 undergoing sea trials in December, 2016. An additional vessel is currently under construction at the Guangzhou Shipyard International (GSI) naval shipyard.

The PLAN commissioned three new Type 903A fleet oilers in 2016 alone (numbers 887, 963, 964), and is showing a dedicated interest to expand its fleet refueling capabilities. Replacement of older vessels with new, more capable designs, and expanding the total number of oilers and replenishment vessels will expand China’s power projection capabilities. The Type 903A has an LOA of 178 meters and displacement of 23,400 tons. In addition to the Type 903A, two Type 904B dry cargo/general stores vessels were commissioned in 2015, with a third such vessel currently being fitted out. These vessels are ideally suited for supporting off-shore island garrisons, such as those being stationed on Chinese held islands in the South China Sea. All of the PLANs Type 904, Type 904A and Type 904B dry cargo replenishment vessels are attached to the South Sea Fleet based at Hainan Island. The Type 904 was increased in size with the Type 904A and the addition of a heavy helicopter hangar was added in the design of the Type 904B.





Type 903 fleet replenishment oiler (bottom) and Type 904 dry cargo/general stores support vessels.

*2017: A Big Year for the PLAN*

Although the CV-17 aircraft carrier will not be commissioned until 2018 or 2019, this year is shaping up to be a big year for the PLAN, considering the expansion of the navy in both quantitative and qualitative terms. In addition to the commissioning on three more Type 052D destroyers, three additional Type 054A frigates, two newly commissioned Type 056 corvettes, one Type 904B and one Type 901 large replenishment ship, the first of China’s largest and most capable surface warships, the first Type 055 will be launched. Although the Type 055 will not be a game changer, in that it does not afford China a distinct advantage over near-peer adversaries, it does level the playing field in China’s favor in any prospective conflict. In terms of regional adversaries, it gives China a powerful advantage over the small navies at its doorstep. Only Japan’s JMSDF and the United States Navy in the Pacific region will maintain an edge over an increasingly capable and assertive PLAN. As time goes on, this advantage in naval power will continue to diminish.

https://southfront.org/chinas-type-055-destroyer-from-blueprint-to-reality-2/

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## homing28



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## grey boy 2

homing28 said:


> View attachment 393619

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## grey boy 2

From 15/3/17 "Dalian 055" DDG (2017年3月15日大连小火车三号四号GE扒图,
就在二弟旁边，但是大部分分段在干船坞旁边的地面上，小部分分段是在干船坞里面，没有像二弟采用地面塔式建造法，这么建造是不是有点奢侈啊？
丈量了尺寸，二弟型宽17m，新风段不低于19m，应该是小火车。)

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## samsara

The first *Type 055*'s *integrated mast* has been installed on the hull.









Via *@xinfengcao* 2017.04.28

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

samsara said:


> The first *Type 055*'s *integrated mast* has been installed on the hull.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Via *@xinfengcao* 2017.04.28




Great.

The question arises can the future upgrades to existing DGGs install integerated masts?

Personally, I am very happy to see the first 100% locally built Chinese AC to hit the waters... However, this ship, 055, is truly a game-changer... along with SSNs this will form both the Spear and Shield.

I guess first batch is going to be 8? @ChineseTiger1986 @cnleio

Looking farward to this cruiser to hit the waters soon. Any due date?

Thanks!

SPF

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## ChineseTiger1986

Sinopakfriend said:


> Great.
> 
> The question arises can the future upgrades to existing DGGs install integerated masts?
> 
> Personally, I am very happy to see the first 100% locally built Chinese AC to hit the waters... However, this shisp, 055, is truly a gamechanger... along with SSNs this will form both the Spear and Shield.
> 
> I guess first batch is going to be 8? @ChineseTiger1986 @cnleio
> 
> Looking farward to this cruiser to hit the waters soon. Any due date?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> SPF



The first batch is going to be 8, since it got at least 5-6 ships under construction right now.

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## 艹艹艹



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## grey boy 2

Updates: main mast has been installed on our 055 DDG (近日，我国在建的首艘055大型导弹驱逐舰已经安装上主桅杆)

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## antonius123

It seems comparable with Sejong, both is > 10000 ton and can bring 128 VLS.


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## ChineseTiger1986

antonius123 said:


> It seems comparable with Sejong, both is > 10000 ton and can bring 128 VLS.



Sejong doesn't have AESA.

PS, its VLS is only MK 41, let alone the MK 57.

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## m3milk

antonius123 said:


> It seems comparable with Sejong, both is > 10000 ton and can bring 128 VLS.



Sejong is generally a Arleigh Burke in a larger size. It was a little boring that the Korean and Japanese DDGs were just modified version of Arleigh Burke. I would like to see them develop their unique and distinct vessels. That would be much more fun for military enthusiasts.

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## antonius123

It think China need to consider building cruiser with more than 20k tonnage to face US CBG, like kirov or lider

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## ChineseToTheBone

antonius123 said:


> It think China need to consider building cruiser with more than 20k tonnage to face US CBG, like kirov or lider


Those might be overly expensive and unnecessarily large, especially if two smaller destroyers could be adopted for a numbers game instead. Naval powers such as Japan and the United Kingdom have both chose to build lighter ships that each cost less to build rather than heavier ships these recent years in order to have more available.

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## ao333

ChineseToTheBone said:


> Those might be overly expensive and unnecessarily large, especially if two smaller destroyers could be adopted for a numbers game instead. Naval powers such as Japan and the United Kingdom have both chose to build lighter ships that each cost less to build rather than heavier ships these recent years in order to have more available.



Large ships are significantly more cost efficient, given the reduction in crew redundancy, however they are much harder to defend. The Japanese made this fatal mistake during WWII. Large, poorly defended Japanese ships became target practice for US torpedoes.

The US can build large ships because they have the nuclear deterrence and mobile missile defense systems to ensure their carrier's security. Thereon, they can consider cost efficiency. If America's adversaries all had the same number of nukes that the US had, American carriers would be much smaller than they are today.

Given China's current missile defense immaturity, it would be a terrible mistakes to build larger, less defensible ships

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## antonius123

ChineseToTheBone said:


> Those might be overly expensive and unnecessarily large, especially if two smaller destroyers could be adopted for a numbers game instead. Naval powers such as Japan and the United Kingdom have both chose to build lighter ships that each cost less to build rather than heavier ships these recent years in order to have more available.



But dont you think large cruiser with heavy fire power could be lethal to CBG? Russia count on numerous large cruiser like kirov (>27,000 tonnage) to face US dozen of CBGs. Japan and British indeed doesnt need it as they dont have enemy with huge CBGs like US.

Imagine if such a large cruiser could carry DF21D or DF26 that would be very dangerous for CBG (wonder if it is possible to have large ship carry DF21  )



ao333 said:


> Large ships are significantly more cost efficient, given the reduction in crew redundancy, however they are much harder to defend. The Japanese made this fatal mistake during WWII. Large, poorly defended Japanese ships became target practice for US torpedoes.
> 
> The US can build large ships because they have the nuclear deterrence and mobile missile defense systems to ensure their carrier's security. Thereon, they can consider cost efficiency. If America's adversaries all had the same number of nukes that the US had, American carriers would be much smaller than they are today.
> 
> Given China's current missile defense immaturity, it would be a terrible mistakes to build larger, less defensible ships



HQ-9 should be quite matured defense missile comparable to S-300.
Large cruise with more than 100 HQ-9 will have strong defense system against air threat.


This is Lider, Russia's future battle cruise with 200 missiles (17,000 tonnage). Russia depend on large heavy armed cruise to handle US super carrier groups.





http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...new-monster-warships-armed-200-missiles-16427

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## 21stCentury

antonius123 said:


> This is Lider, Russia's future battle cruise with 200 missiles (17,000 tonnage). Russia depend on large heavy armed cruise to handle US super carrier groups.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...new-monster-warships-armed-200-missiles-16427



That is one of the most beautiful elegant ship I have seen, and at 17k tons this thing is an absolute BEAST, a gorgeous beast nonetheless.

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## grey boy 2

updates

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## samsara

Type 055 DDG update: integrated mast installed on bridge via hhfw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/859394934255661056

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## Deino

When will it be launched ?


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## samsara

Deino said:


> When will it be launched ?


I recall to read someone said the very first one will be launched _within this July_, but can't remember where it's or who said it 


_The first Type 055's shipborne radar system is undergoing test, which represents the highest level of China or even the world's shipborne radar system. 2017.05.01_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/858918653638594560

_*The director of NRIET says that the radar systems under development (for Type 055 ?) are among the most advanced ones in the world.*_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/858704283029590017*NRIET = Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology

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## j20blackdragon

grey boy 2 said:


> updates



I just want to remind everybody that the 055's integrated mast provides a 360 degree continuous X-band AESA and electronic warfare suite capability that's neatly integrated into the mast itself.






Meanwhile, the Arleigh Burke Flight III will be using the inferior AN/SPQ-9B mechanically rotating, non-phased array radar as the X-band component of AMDR. The old-school AN/SPG-62 mechanically steered fire control radars will also be retained on the ship.






That means the 055 will achieve the Dual Band Radar (DBR) capability before the Arleigh Burke Flight III or Zumwalt-class.

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## grey boy 2



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## Dungeness

This is how 055 will be launched:

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## samsara

Dungeness said:


> This is how 055 will be launched:


May someone please enlighten me more about the "black base box" at the sketch? I know it's some kind of "floating building platform" seeing the adjacent picture but wanna know more  thx.

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## Dungeness

samsara said:


> May someone please enlighten me more about the "black base box" at the sketch? I know it's some kind of "floating building platform" seeing the adjacent picture but wanna know more  thx.



Launching a ship with a *floating box platform* is Patented by *China Ship Building 9th Design Bureau* and *Jiangnan Ship Building Co.* I did not find any other ship builder using this method to launch a ship.

Here is their patent application:

https://www.google.com/patents/CN101380992B?cl=en

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## Shotgunner51

samsara said:


> May someone please enlighten me more about the "black base box" at the sketch?





Dungeness said:


> Launching a ship with a *floating box platform* is Patented by *China Ship Building 9th Design Bureau* and *Jiangnan Ship Building Co.* I did not find any other ship builder using this method to launch a ship.
> 
> Here is their patent application:
> 
> https://www.google.com/patents/CN101380992B?cl=en


Good to see Chinese R&D guys using patent to protect their IP!

P.S.: We can know how hard translation is! Yes, in fact *language* is one major barrier between Chinese innovators and international patents (e.g. USPTO, PCT). To overcome this, WIPO develops a cutting-edge neural machine translation technology to render highly technical patent documents into a second language in a style and syntax that more closely mirrors common usage, out-performing other translation tools built on previous technologies. WIPO has initially “trained” the new technology to translate Chinese, Japanese and Korean patent documents into English. Patent applications in those languages accounted for some 55% of worldwide filings in 2014.
http://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2016/article_0014.html

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## Speeder 2

21stCentury said:


> That is one of the most beautiful elegant ship I have seen, and at 17k tons this thing is an absolute BEAST, a gorgeous beast nonetheless.



That thing looks horrible, man!

-----

BTW, is 055 the most lethal destroyer (or cruiser) in the world right now?

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## nang2

Speeder 2 said:


> That thing looks horrible, man!
> 
> -----
> 
> BTW, is 055 the most lethal destroyer (or cruiser) in the world right now?


No, it is still sitting in a dry dock.


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## BennyMenny

Speeder 2 said:


> That thing looks horrible, man!
> 
> -----
> 
> BTW, is 055 the most lethal destroyer (or cruiser) in the world right now?



No Sejong the Great destroyer of ROK Navy is the most lethal destroyer right now. 128 VLS aegis destroyer.


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## 52051

BennyMenny said:


> No Sejong the Great destroyer of ROK Navy is the most
> lethal destroyer right now. 128 VLS aegis destroyer.



Sejong the Great DDG is vastly inferior to 055 in its radar and electrionic system.

As for VLS, you are comparing apple to orange, 055's VLS is far larger and far more capable than MK41 installled in korea's DDG.

Each 055's VLS can acommodate up to 4 missiles of various combination and far larger dimension than the tiny MK41 silo.

And with the RAM missiles sites, each 055 can accomodate up to 500+ missiles depend on configurations.

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## 帅的一匹

52051 said:


> Is vastly inferior to 055 in its radar and electrionic system.
> 
> As for VLS, you are comparing apple to orange, 055's VLS is far larger and far more capable than MK41 installled in korea's DDG.
> 
> Each 055's VLS can acommodate up to 4 missiles of various combination and far larger dimension than the tiny MK41 silo.
> 
> And with the RAM missiles sites, each 055 can accomodate up to 500+ missiles depend on configurations.


Not in the same class, can't compare.

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## BennyMenny

52051 said:


> Korea's DDG is vastly inferior to 055 in its radar and electrionic system.
> 
> As for VLS, you are comparing apple to orange, 055's VLS is far larger and far more capable than MK41 installled in korea's DDG.
> 
> Each 055's VLS can acommodate up to 4 missiles of various combination and far larger dimension than the tiny MK41 silo.
> 
> And with the RAM missiles sites, each 055 can accomodate up to 500+ missiles depend on configurations.
> 
> I am not need to mention the fact the korea ddg has yet to figure out the electronic compatilities therefore most of their VLSs are empty now and their DDG is merely a tourist ship ATM.



''Vastly inferior'' get off your arrogant Chinese nationalist high horse where a slight mention of other DDG gets you going. Why is the radar and electronic system inferior?

Mk41 can pack 4 missiles as well.''far larger dimension than the tiny MK41 silo.'' lol

The rest what you said are bullshit..........

ALSO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CURRENT. TYPE 055 IS NOT YET FINISHED


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## 帅的一匹

BennyMenny said:


> ''Vastly inferior'' get off your arrogant Chinese nationalist high horse where a slight mention of other DDG gets you going. Why is the radar and electronic system inferior?
> 
> Mk41 can pack 4 missiles as well.''far larger dimension than the tiny MK41 silo.'' lol
> 
> The rest what you said are bullshit..........
> 
> ALSO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CURRENT. TYPE 055 IS NOT YET FINISHED


The size of Chinese VLS on type 055 is even larger than MK57, not to mention MK41. As far as I know, they don't even have torpedo on that ship.

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## Speeder 2

BennyMenny said:


> No Sejong the Great destroyer of ROK Navy is the most lethal destroyer right now. 128 VLS aegis destroyer.



They're not even in the same league.

128 "VLS" ( on top of that, will be permanently half-empty) is far less lethal than 055's 112(?) super dupper VLS . We've passed elementary numbers count here, have we?

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## 52051

wanglaokan said:


> The size of Chinese VLS on type 055 is even larger than MK57, not to mention MK41. As far as I know, they don't even have torpedo on that ship.



Not to mention the fact VLS on 055DDG can accomodate both cold-launch and hot-launch missiles in the same silo, it is vastly superior to the pathetic MK41.

Comparing MK41 with VLS on 055DDG is like comparing your BB-gun with a 12.7mm sniper rifle, yes they are both guns, but besides that, there is little to compare with.

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## Speeder 2

I think the only true competitor of 055 in sight would be future Flight III Arleigh Burke.


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## 帅的一匹

Speeder 2 said:


> I think the only true competitor of 055 in sight would be future Flight III Arleigh Burke.


No, it's DDG1000

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## english_man

wanglaokan said:


> No, it's DDG1000


Actually, you can't compare the DDG1000 to a 055, as they are completely different types of vessel, and don't have the same mission goals. In fact the Zumwalts, are such odd beasts, they don't even fit in with the US Navies requirements, they don't have BMD, they don't have AEGIS, and i don't think they have an anti-ship capability. In fact as the systems on the Zumwalt are not even ready yet, and it has been declared the vessel won't be ready for operations until at least 2021!........you can bet the 055 will be ready before then.

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## Speeder 2

wanglaokan said:


> No, it's DDG1000



DDG 1000 is by and large a failure so far, and it will not be the soul & spirit of US Navy workhorses in the foreseeable future, unlike flight III Arleigh Burke.

DDG 1000 mainly targets at sea-to-land attack against mid & small sized opponents that don't have formidable naval forces . It's rather different from traditional destroyers which focus on area air defence, anti-ship & anti-sub capabilities that 052D, Type 45, Arleigh Burke, and 055 etc have been designed for.

Thus even though DDG 1000 is the most advanced ship by various measures, it's not comparable to 055 at all.

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## Stuttgart001

Speeder 2 said:


> DDG 1000 is by and large a failure so far, and it will not be the soul & spirit of US Navy workhorses in the foreseeable future, unlike flight III Arleigh Burke.
> 
> DDG 1000 mainly targets at sea-to-land attack against mid & small sized opponents that don't have formidable naval forces . It's rather different from traditional destroyers which focus on area air defence, anti-ship & anti-sub capabilities that 052D, Type 45, Arleigh Burke, and 055 etc have been designed for.
> 
> Thus even though DDG 1000 is the most advanced ship by various measures, it's not comparable to 055 at all.


DDG-1000 is kind of a creature of the concept of arsenal ship.

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## Han Patriot

wanglaokan said:


> No, it's DDG1000


I have to agree. Looking at the Sejong, Kongo and Arleigh Burke, there is no stealthy design in mid, it looks so ugly.

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## grey boy 2

Updates 4/9/17

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## clibra

Speeder 2 said:


> BTW, is 055 the most lethal destroyer (or cruiser) in the world right now?



not now.
we can say that 2~3 years later after FOC achieved.

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## Stuttgart001

clibra said:


> not now.
> we can say that 2~3 years later after FOC achieved.


Be humble.
055 is one of the most lethal destroyers in the world.
The destroyers of US and Japan are quite advanced , and never underestimate others.
We China has a long way to catch up with US and it's a reality which must be admitted .

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## clibra

Stuttgart001 said:


> Be humble.
> 055 is one of the most lethal destroyers in the world.
> The destroyers of US and Japan are quite advanced , and never underestimate others.
> We China has a long way to catch up with US and it's a reality which must be admitted .



Yep, one of the most ...... , that's a better way.

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## Han Patriot

Stuttgart001 said:


> Be humble.
> 055 is one of the most lethal destroyers in the world.
> The destroyers of US and Japan are quite advanced , and never underestimate others.
> We China has a long way to catch up with US and it's a reality which must be admitted .


I agree, be humble but not apologetic. 055 will take at least 3 years to be fully operational. ABs, Sejong and Kongos are still formidable foes. We never know what might be unveiled by US and Japan. Let's just stay on our course and just follow our own path.

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## grey boy 2

Updates: will be launch within 2017 according to schedule (只待年内下水现身！中国055大型驱逐舰建造现场)

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## cnleio

grey boy 2 said:


> Updates: will be launch within 2017 according to schedule (只待年内下水现身！中国055大型驱逐舰建造现场)


*China 1st 10,000+ ton type055 DDG will launch in this year, good news for PLAN !*

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## 星海军事

Joining of the 2nd 055

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## Deino



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## terranMarine

Another Beast in making

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## waja2000

Maybe boss of Dalian shipyard and Shanghai changxing shipyard can discuss together for launch 4 unit 055 at same day .... haha


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## cirr

Deino said:


> View attachment 398554



Satellite image on 26.04.2017

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## grey boy 2

The bow of 055 DDG

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## grey boy 2

5/16/2017

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## cirr

Launch due before the end of this month? 

Let's wait and see.

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## grey boy 2

055顶棚已拆, Looks like the rumors of "055 #1" will be launch before the end of July is real (看来真是下周下水，向建党节献礼。)




The 2nd 055 has been connected as well _【_据最新卫星图显示，正在江南建造中的055导弹驱逐舰二号舰已合拢，一号舰也即将下水！



】

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## grey boy 2

More on the #1 #2 "055 DDG"

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## GS Zhou

cirr said:


> Launch due before the end of this month?


that means in about two to three years, we very likely to see a fleet consisting of: CV17+ two Type 055 + three to four 052D, that's pretty cool and impressive!!!

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## cirr

grey boy 2 said:


> More on the #1 #2 "055 DDG"



Over a month old. 

The latest rumour is that the shed atop #1 has been dismantled and the ship will be launched next week.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> Over a month old.
> 
> The latest rumour is that the shed atop #1 has been dismantled and the ship will be launched next week.




Indeed. That's also visible hear even of that image is quite small, blurred and not very clear, but the roof has been removed.

Can't wait to see this beast in the water.

Deino

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## grey boy 2

The 2 055 DDG in Dalian are progressing good as well, wow the 1st batch is 4, how many the next batch?
一口气造4艘！大连两艘055万吨大驱也进展顺利 
近日，正在大连建造中的两艘055大型导弹驱逐舰进展顺利。目前曝光的055大驱建造数量为4，其中上海两艘，大连两艘。上海的一号舰进展最快，或即将下水。（来源：辽宁号指挥长）

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## grey boy 2

Updates

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## grey boy 2

Updates: Dalian 055

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## grey boy 2

Breaking good news: 055 DDG ready to launch in these few days
055重巡挂满彩旗，或将于明后两天下水
转自浩汉@丿GG灬DJ大炮 @中国航母山东舰 @HonorforLee

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## grey boy 2

【快讯：沪航警0463长江口中海长兴船厂6月28日1630时至1800时新船 C1652Z船长174米船宽22米江南侧船坞出坞后靠江南侧3号码头。



】



http://weibo.com/5202991931/F9Bx2noav

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## cirr

grey boy 2 said:


> 【快讯：沪航警0463长江口中海长兴船厂6月28日1630时至1800时新船 C1652Z船长174米船宽22米江南侧船坞出坞后靠江南侧3号码头。
> 
> 
> 
> 】

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## grey boy 2

cirr said:


>


am i posting a wrong image again bro? i've been doing that often lately


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## cirr

grey boy 2 said:


> am i posting a wrong image again bro? i've been doing that often lately



We shall find out soon enough.

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## Akasa

grey boy 2 said:


>



That is the mast of the Project 20385 _Gremyashchiy_-class corvette, not of the Type 055. Reference is below.


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## Deino

Uppps ... what a fail !!!


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## cirr

Deino said:


> Uppps ... what a fail !!!



Pre-launch ceremony was held this morning at JN with much fanfair

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## 星海军事

grey boy 2 said:


> 【快讯：沪航警0463长江口中海长兴船厂6月28日1630时至1800时新船 C1652Z船长174米船宽22米江南侧船坞出坞后靠江南侧3号码头。
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 】


fake news

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## grey boy 2

星海军事 said:


> fake news


Yeah, thats too bad, wasting my excitement LOL

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## Daniel808

*Type 055 Cruiser (Heavy Destroyer) 12,800 Tonnes Launching Ceremony !*









Congrats for China's Navy 
One of The Most Powerful Modern Warship

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## IblinI

We still don't get a full pic with the mast, hope we can see it by tomorrow.

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## Daniel808

Credit to @cirr

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## Deino

Congrats indeed ! An amazing ship....

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## dy1022

@english_man

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## 帅的一匹

Time to play uncharted waters.

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## Deino

Just a question: are these images from the alleged launch yesterday or was this even just this morning ?

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## grey boy 2

I must say, we're one of the most blessed generation to have the honor to witness the impressive growth of our beloved motherland

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## 帅的一匹

What's the production plan?

毛主席他老人家也想不到共军会有这么一天。

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## grey boy 2

wanglaokan said:


> What's the production plan?
> 
> 毛主席他老人家也想不到共军会有这么一天。


12, i try to find the link, but can;t locate it anymore

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## yusheng

today，people are busy modifying their 055CG

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Just amazing... after the AC and now this massive cruiser in waters.. the China Speed!

I do suspect that four ships in this class be hitting the waters by the end of this year....

Now is time for some good news for SSNs/SSBNs...

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## 帅的一匹

侧面折角设计防撞性能比伯克好

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## Speeder 2

It probably is the most powerful destroyer in the world now, more powerful than Zumwalt DDG 1000...

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## TaiShang

grey boy 2 said:


> I must say, we're one of the most blessed generation to have the honor to witness the impressive growth of our beloved motherland



Indeed a blessed generation. 

One good reason to remember and respect the sacrifice and unselfish dedication of the hundreds of millions of workers, planners, policy makers over the generations from the century of humiliation onwards that made today's progress and development possible.

History is not to be trapped with pessimism, or be petrified by over-optimism; but, for realistic assessment of mistakes to derive lessons and evolve continuously as people and institution/state.

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## english_man

The actual launch of the first 055 is be tomorrow June 28th according to a Chinese source..........and I can well believe it as the ceremonial flags have already been fitted. It will be a proud day for the Chinese to see this beast of a Destroyer finally exposed to them.............just think only a few years ago, some people were saying the 055 was just a Chinese fanboys dream and didn't exist........well how wrong they are.

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## Daniel808

english_man said:


> The actual launch of the first 055 is be tomorrow June 28th according to a Chinese source..........and I can well believe it as the ceremonial flags have already been fitted. It will be a proud day for the Chinese to see this beast of a Destroyer finally exposed to them.............just think only a few years ago, some people were saying the 055 was just a Chinese fanboys dream and didn't exist........well how wrong they are.



Yeah, I remember too my friend @english_man 

Before J-20 Stealth Fighter first flight in 2011, some Ignorant people said Chinese Stealth Fighter project is pure Fantasy. China cannot build Stealth Fighter bla bla bla ....

When first photos of China's Aircraft carrier posted in internet forums, some Ignorant people said that's only a Cargo ship, not an Aircraft carrier.
but 'Time' again beat them in this matter

now, this 12,800 Tonnes Type 055 Heavy Destroyer 

China oh China, you are mood killer for those people

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## Han Patriot

Daniel808 said:


> Yeah, I remember too my friend @english_man
> 
> Before J-20 Stealth Fighter first flight in 2011, some Ignorant people said Chinese Stealth Fighter project is pure Fantasy. China cannot build Stealth Fighter bla bla bla ....
> 
> When first photos of China's Aircraft carrier posted in internet forums, some Ignorant people said that's only a Cargo ship, not an Aircraft carrier.
> but 'Time' again beat them in this matter
> 
> now, this 12,800 Tonnes Type 055 Heavy Destroyer
> 
> China oh China, you are mood killer for those people


They didn't believe alot of things, stealth, aircraft carrier, quantum supercomputers, all of them were cynical.
Trust me, the domestic engine is already powering Chinese jets, it's just that we haven't officially announce it.

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## StarCraft_ZT

How does it rank among the current destroyers in service?

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## Daniel808

StarCraft_ZT said:


> How does it rank among the current destroyers in service?



There is an analysis article about this Type 055 Heavy Destroyer.
very informative



Dungeness said:


> *The first 055 is about to be launched: here’s seven reasons why it’s a big deal*
> 
> *It’s time*
> Three years of patience and drip-feeding of information is about to be rewarded, with the launch of the first 055 class destroyer from Jiangnan Changxing shipyard expected to occur within days, with ceremonial signal flags raised and hull painted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOON
> 
> 
> This site has written quite extensively about the *055 class destroyer*, and what to *expect from it*.
> 
> However the launch of the first 055 will likely spark a flurry of media activity from all stripes of bloggers, defence media, and even mainstream news media outlets. Many of these outlets and sites will try to decipher and consider what the consequences of the 055 class destroyer will be. However, few of those outlets will likely have had continuous PLA following experience, and even fewer are likely to have had the step by step analysis of the trickle of 055 related rumours and information over the course of the three and a half or more years, to form fully rounded interpretations of this new vessel.
> 
> The purpose of this write up is to condense the consequences of the new 055 class into seven discrete points, effectively, for why the 055 class is a “big deal”. PLA watchers and general military enthusiasts alike, let’s get hype.
> 
> 
> 
> *1: Size*
> We now have many satellite photos of the 055 class to be able to gain an accurate estimate of the 055’s physical dimensions, and this author’s estimates put the ship at a length of about 180 meters with a beam of about 20 meters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A satellite image comparing a copied 052D alongside the first 055 at JNCX, note the significant difference in length
> The Wuhan mock up has provided also us a very accurate gauge of what the physical top side configuration of the ship will likely look, providing indication of the ship’s large and integrated topside superstructure configuration.
> 
> _For context, the Ticonderoga class cruiser has a length of *173 meters*, a beam of *16.8 meters*, and a full displacement of 9,600 tons, while the Flight IIA Burke class destroyer has a length of *155 meters*, a beam of *20 meters* and a full displacement of 9,200 tons. The Zumwalt class destroyer has a length of *180 meters*, a beam of *24 meters* and a full displacement in excess of 15,000 tons._
> 
> Therefore, the 055 is estimated to have a full displacement in excess of 12,000 tons, potentially approaching 13,000 tons. This corresponds with the statement of at least one Chinese military commentator that was published on an official *PLA news outlet* describing 055 as having a full displacement of 13,000 tons.
> 
> The size of the 055 cannot be understated. The next largest surface combatant the Chinese Navy has ever domestically produced is the 7,000 ton 052D with a length of 157 meters and a beam of 17 meters. Furthermore, the number of world navies which are currently building surface combatants significantly in excess of 10,000 tons or have concrete plans to build them in the near future can be counted on one hand, namely the US Navy, Zumwalt class; ROK Navy, Sejong class; Chinese Navy, 055 class. The Russian Navy with their Slava class and Kirov class cruisers also fit the bill, however those ships most definitely are not exactly recent or modern.
> 
> Needless to say, only a few navies in the world are fielding or are planning to field surface combatants of such an ambitious size. And size — as later points will show — does matter.
> 
> 
> 
> *2: Armament*
> The 052D class was armed with 64 universal Chinese Navy Vertical Launch System cells. The 055 is expected to field 112 to 128, potentially up to double the number. Such an armament will make the 055 class one of the most well armed surface combatants in the world, not only because a 112-128 cell count is among the world’s largest, but also because the CN VLS cells are each 0.85 meters in diameter and up to 9 meters long, thus significantly larger than equivalent universal VLS cells of other navies whether it by the Mk-41, the Mk-57 or the SYLVER. When arranged in the cold launch mechanism to use the full cross section of a cell, the CN VLS has the potential to field a significantly wider missile than other equivalent VLS cells in the world.
> 
> Of course, it is important to note that many other ships have a large number of VLS too. The Ticonderoga class fields 122 VLS as well as 8 dedicated slant Harpoon AShM launchers, while the Sejong class fields 128 VLS with 16 dedicated slant AShM launchers making it arguably the most heavily armed universal VLS equipped surface combatant in the world. And that doesn’t count the mighty Kirov class battlecruisers undergoing refit to be equipped with a large number of modernized UKSK VLS and new SAM VLS.
> 
> But with a 112 or 128 VLS count for the 055 class, and fielding a universal VLS cell with a large cross sectional area, its hitting power will be indisputably among the top tiers of the world’s surface combatants.
> 
> 
> 
> *3: Sensors and electronics*
> The 055 is expected to field the latest generation of the Chinese Navy’s sensors. Some of these sensors may be versions of existing systems, or variants of existing systems, or new systems altogether. The 055 is expected to field the same S band APAR as the 052D or perhaps a newer and more capable variant, as well as an X band APAR atop its integrated mast. A variety of passive sensors like a new ESM suite, EO/IR cameras, as well as datalinks are expected to round out the electronics suite. An aft volume search radar has been mentioned as a possible candidate for the 055 as well, but this is still under some debate and will likely only be settled with clear photos of the real 055 ship itself.
> 
> Furthermore, the 055 is expected to field a substantially more modern and more capable command and control and battle management system, fulfilling its role as a command ship and as a “shield of the fleet” in a manner similar to leading air defence cruisers. Given the 055’s substantially larger size than the preceding 052D class, such a prospect is not only logical but almost expected.
> 
> 
> 
> *4: Production pace*
> The first modules for the 055 were sighted at JNCX shipyard in early/mid 2016, corresponding with rumours in late 2014 that the first 055 had begun steel cutting. However, given the 055 was not only a wholly new warship design, but also the largest Chinese surface combatant ever developed by a large margin, it was thought that production of the 055 class would proceed in a slow, or at least cautious manner. Perhaps only one shipyard would build the 055 for a few years to start off with, and perhaps at a pace of only one per year.
> 
> What was not expected, was for two different shipyards to both produce 055s, and each to build two 055s concurrently. By October 2016, modules for the second 055 at JNCX were sighted. And by late November 2016, modules for two 055s were sighted and the latest photos going into 2017 confirmed that two 055s are being simultaneously assembled in the same drydock alongside one another.
> 
> In other words, four 055s were under various states of assembly and construction at the same time before the first 055 had even been launched, and all this in a new clean sheet design of a surface combatant whose full displacement was almost double that of the previous largest surface combatant that the Chinese Navy had ever domestically produced.
> 
> The pace of this construction for a new and large warship is a significant departure from the 2000s, where new warship designs were built in pairs or small numbers before embarking on larger production numbers, and even those warship classes tended to be derivatives of existing designs (such as 052B, 052C, 052D, or 054, 054A, or 051B, 051C). This pace of construction for the 055 likely reflects a much increased confidence of the Chinese Navy in their domestic industry’s capabilities, not only in terms of ship design and shipbuilding, but also in terms of their assessment of the 055’s ability to fulfill the Navy’s requirements and its overall competitiveness compared to other surface combatants in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two 055 hulls under assembly in the same drydock at Dalian shipyard likely taken some time in late April 2017
> 
> 
> *5: Numbers*
> The most powerful warship in the world will have little impact on a Navy’s overall combat capability if there are too few of them. The realities of naval maintenance and readiness means only a fraction (often said to be 1/3) of a fleet or a warship of a certain type are deployed at any one time. Therefore, if say only three warships of a certain class were built, then it means during any one time only one warship would be deployed. It does not matter if that warship is the most advanced or most capable warship of its generation, but if there are only a handful in service, it means only about one third of that handful will be deployed at any one time. (This may or may not be a cheeky reference to a certain uber-advanced super warship class that a certain powerful navy has recently commissioned, I shall let the reader judge for him or herself.)
> 
> For the 055, at time of writing in late June 2017, we can confirm that four 055s are definitely under construction. Concrete information for the Chinese Navy’s future procurement plans are of course impossible to come by, but some quite reliable sources in the past have suggested the “first batch” of 055s will be at least 8 in number. The natural implication of this of course, is that there will likely be subsequent batches of 055s in coming years, to follow the first batch of at least 8 ships. Considering the fast rate of production for the 055 class thus far, it would not be unexpected for the number of 055s to reach in the double digits by the mid 2020s. Whether that means 10+ or perhaps 20+ is a tenuous matter which naval analysts all around the world will likely nervously deliberate, but at this stage it is reasonable to judge that the final number of 055s will definitely be significantly greater than three ships.
> 
> 
> 
> *6: Future Proofing*
> The 055 is a new clean sheet ship design and it is also a large design. Given the pattern of previous Chinese Navy surface combatant development, it is likely that the 055 will form the basis for future variants as well, likely with the hypothetical designations of 055A, 055B and so on.
> 
> The way in which the 055 may evolve is not certain, however the Chinese Navy’s robust R&D into integrated electric propulsion, rail guns and lasers is quite well known and they are likely pursuing future sensor technology that will be power hungry and space hungry as well. The reasonably large size of the 055 hull will therefore provide substantial room for future growth for new systems and new technologies, just as the original 052 hull evolved into the 052B, 052C, and 052D. The importance of future growth capacity that a hull can offer has been on full display in the US Navy, where concerns over space and power generation for the Flight III Burke have called into question its suitability for mounting a sufficiently powerful variant of its Air Missile Defence Radar that the USN originally sought, let alone whether such a ship would have the ability to eventually mount new power hungry weapons like rail guns and lasers.
> 
> Future variants of the 055 will likely not suffer such constraints in anywhere near the same degree given its large size and thus larger growth capacity. At this stage it would therefore not be unreasonable and in fact be logical to expect a future 055 variant to be equipped with IEPS, railguns, and/or lasers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The original 052 hull evolved from this…
> 
> 
> 
> … to this…
> 
> 
> 
> …. to this…
> 
> 
> 
> … and finally to this… the evolution of the 052 variants provide a useful visual guide for how much the 055 hull may evolve in future variants.
> 
> 
> *7: Psychology*
> In many ways, this last reason is a sum of all of the previous six. Until the last few years, the very notion that the Chinese Navy may even have the potential to develop and induct a modern surface combatant with a full displacement in excess of 10,000 tons would have caused skepticism among more than a few defence commentators.
> 
> However as of 2017, it has become certain that not only is the Chinese Navy developing a modern, heavily armed, surface combatant whose full displacement is significantly in excess of 10,000 tons, but it is also producing this warship in a fast pace and this warship’s final production run will likely be in the double digits, while also forming the basis of future variants with more exotic power generation and weapons systems. Once the 055 class destroyers start entering service by the end of this decade and going into next decade, perceptions of the Chinese Navy’s capability will likely undergo a paradigm shift.
> 
> There are very few nations who are building or are expected to build modern surface combatants well in excess of 10,000 tons in any sort of significant number. In fact, at present, there is only one. Of course, the future is not guaranteed, and events may unfold which may cause the Chinese Navy to reduce the number of 055s they produce or change their naval doctrine.
> 
> But the prime role of large surface combatants in the public and media perception of a navy’s stature cannot be doubted, and while naval comparisons should never be bastardized to a comparison of size and number, the effect of the 055 class that is not only significantly larger than surface combatants of almost all global navies, and being produced in significant numbers, will elicit a psychological re-assessment of just what the Chinese Navy is and where it is headed.
> 
> 
> 
> *Conclusion*
> There is only so much we can definitively claim with the information we have on the 055 class at present, however based on that information and the application of logic, it is enough to extrapolate a number of likely or virtually confirmed conclusions that have been listed above.
> 
> The 055 class will be launched in the coming week or even within a few days of this being written. Progressively clearer photos taken from the ground will emerge in subsequent hours, days and weeks in a strip-tease-esque manner that experienced PLA watchers have learnt to endure, and if we are lucky we may even receive prompt clear satellite photos of the first 055 as well to settle certain matters around its configuration.
> 
> Here’s to waiting.
> 
> http://plarealtalk.com/2017/06/26/t...nched-heres-seven-reasons-why-its-a-big-deal/

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## 星海军事

*我国新型万吨级驱逐舰首舰下水*

*




*

In this same day, 177 years ago, the First Opium War broke out.

The war ended in the signing of China's first unequal treaty and is the beginning of the century of humiliation of China.

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## lcloo

Launched at 9AM, about one and half hour ago. Release of photo should follow soon, hopefully within hours later.

They have to move the ship from assembly location to the floating platform by rail,
fill up with water,
move the platform to launching pool,
drain away water,
release the ship from the platform,
open ballast door of platform so that it won't float,
refill the pool with water and
then float up the ship.

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## Place Of Space

Han Patriot said:


> They didn't believe alot of things, stealth, aircraft carrier, quantum supercomputers, all of them were cynical.
> Trust me, the domestic engine is already powering Chinese jets, it's just that we haven't officially announce it.



Gooda news! Have any idea of what the name of this cruiser?

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## Pyr0test



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## 帅的一匹

很牛逼的样子，the top of the mast is different than I think

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## waja2000

nice 055, so huge, the completion is looking good for first ship, look like already able to sea trial,
hopefully can get side view...

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## 帅的一匹

Just image a ship can carry 112 units of AshM or 112 units of HQ26

Real Beast!

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## Makarena

what a beauty

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## 帅的一匹

Feels like it's ready for sea trial, the degree of construction completion is very high.

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## Daniel808

星海军事 said:


> *我国新型万吨级驱逐舰首舰下水*
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Damn 
Again, Congratulations China for This Powerful Heavy Destroyer

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## waja2000

better resolution ... type 055 really nice looking

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## 帅的一匹

We finally have a battleship bigger and heavier than Aleigh Burke.下次再来闯南海直接撞它。

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## Han Patriot

星海军事 said:


> *我国新型万吨级驱逐舰首舰下水*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> In this same day, 177 years ago, the First Opium War broke out.
> 
> The war ended in the signing of China's first unequal treaty and is the beginning of the century of humiliation of China.


I don't want to brag like our Indy frens, but don't you guys agree this must be one of the nicest looking ships ever? It looks so sleek and clean.

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## ChineseLuver

Han Patriot said:


> I don't want to brag like our Indy frens, but don't you guys agree this must be one of the nicest looking ships ever? It looks so sleek and clean.



Sure you can brag! You have it you flaunt it. It's not like we buy all the sub systems from multiple foreign countries and shove it into a small tonnage metal box and yet it still took 10++ freaking years to get it launched.
Made in China 100% and don't compare to yindess 100% version

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## english_man

Han Patriot said:


> I don't want to brag like our Indy frens, but don't you guys agree this must be one of the nicest looking ships ever? It looks so sleek and clean.



Yep, the 055 looks great.....now it will be interesting to see how long the Chinese take to outfit this vessel, and put it into service. Well done China!

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## Place Of Space

wanglaokan said:


> 侧面折角设计防撞性能比伯克好



lol Burke was almost sunk by a cargo ship.

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## ChineseTiger1986

english_man said:


> Yep, the 055 looks great.....now it will be interesting to see how long the Chinese take to outfit this vessel, and put it into service. Well done China!



The first ship will most likely be commissioned in the mid 2019.

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## 帅的一匹

The four square boxes stick out at the flank of both the front and back bridges of type 055 cruiser is the new generation conformal meter wave radar antenna array to replace the 517B meter wave surveillance radar. Very cool!

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## TaiShang

星海军事 said:


> *我国新型万吨级驱逐舰首舰下水*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> In this same day, 177 years ago, the First Opium War broke out.
> 
> The war ended in the signing of China's first unequal treaty and is the beginning of the century of humiliation of China.



*为祖国自豪！！！*

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The first ship will most likely be commissioned in the mid 2019.



Thanks, a very reasonable estimation ! But maybe You could explain this to a certain member here who thinks the first vessel will be commissioned already by April 2018 !

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Thanks, a very reasonable estimation ! But maybe You could explain this to a certain member here who thinks the first vessel will be commissioned already by April 2018 !



Well, this is the lead ship of the Type 055 class, so China will likely rush in its completion just like what they did to the DDG-172. Maybe they will rush to commission the ship prior the 70th anniversary of the PLAN which will be scheduled in April 23rd 2019. However, being fully operational and combat ready may even take longer.

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## Speeder 2

Just found out more photos:

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## AmirPatriot

Looks great. Congrats to Chinese members.

What are those 128 VLS cells going to include?

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## ChineseTiger1986

AmirPatriot said:


> Looks great. Congrats to Chinese members.
> 
> What are those 128 VLS cells going to include?



Right now, it will be the like the SAM HQ-9B, the ASM like YJ-18, the LACM like DH-10, the torpedo like YU-8.

Later the anti-ballistic missile system like the HQ-26 will be installed into that platform.

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## 21stCentury

This is equivalent to that of the J-20 when it made its first appearance. This is big news.

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## 帅的一匹

AmirPatriot said:


> Looks great. Congrats to Chinese members.
> 
> What are those 128 VLS cells going to include?


Actual 112 units of VLS with size larger than MK57. Can hold CJ10 Cruise missle, HQ26 terminal intercepter SAM, HQ9B long range SAM, HQ16b medium range SAM, YJ18A AshM, YJ12 AshM, YJ83AshM, Y-8Torpedo，Quad-pack Short range missle like SD10A.

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## Speeder 2

AmirPatriot said:


> Looks great. Congrats to Chinese members.
> 
> What are those 128 VLS cells going to include?



Say

22 YJ18
16 YU8
32 HQ19
26 CJ10
32X4 HQ26

The most awesome fire power on the planet!

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## ChineseTiger1986

wanglaokan said:


> Actual 112 units of VLS with size larger than MK57. Can hold CJ10 Cruise missle, HQ26 terminal intercepter SAM, HQ9B long range SAM, HQ16b medium range SAM, YJ18A AshM, YJ12 AshM, YJ83AshM, Y-8Torpedo，Quad-pack Short range missle like SD10A.



Right now the 128 vs 112 is not decided yet, and we have to wait to see the conclusive pictures of the VLS.

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## 21stCentury

A lot of websites are reporting the type 055 as 10,000 ton, other non-news sources say 12,000 to 14,000 tons--which one is closer to the fact? 

Even Global Times reports it as 10,000 tons.

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## 帅的一匹

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Right now the 128 vs 112 is not decided yet, and we have to wait to see the conclusive pictures of the VLS.


This ship actually give out a lot of surprise. Maybe it's 128 units, who knows? The mast is much cooler than those on the CG.



Speeder 2 said:


> Say
> 
> 22 YJ18
> 16 YU8
> 32 HQ19
> 26 CJ10
> 32X4 HQ26
> 
> The most awesome fire power on the planet!


It's depends on the mission. A fleet consist of 4 055DDG is devastating!

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## Speeder 2

055 VID, VID, VID!

http://overseas.weico.cc/share/3228759.html?weibo_id=4123633514865177

http://video.sina.com.cn/p/news/mil/doc/2017-06-28/152366520607.html?wm=3049_0027&from=qudao

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## 帅的一匹

Fabulous! Amazing! Fantastic! gorgeous!perfect! Wonderful!

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## ChineseTiger1986

21stCentury said:


> A lot of websites are reporting the type 055 as 10,000 ton, other non-news sources say 12,000 to 14,000 tons--which one is closer to the fact?
> 
> Even Global Times reports it as 10,000 tons.



12000-14000 tons is closer to the full displacement figure.

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## TaiShang

21stCentury said:


> A lot of websites are reporting the type 055 as 10,000 ton, other non-news sources say 12,000 to 14,000 tons--which one is closer to the fact?
> 
> Even Global Times reports it as 10,000 tons.



I think that's just China media's conservatism in releasing full figures when it comes to accomplishments.

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## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> I think that's just China media's conservatism in releasing full figures when it comes to accomplishments.



Yep, just like they quoted light displacement figure for the Type 001A, but the full displacement figure is actually 70000 tons instead of 50000 tons.

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## 帅的一匹

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, just like they quoted light displacement figure for the Type 001A, but the full displacement figure is actually 70000 tons instead of 50000 tons.


Prevent drawing attention from USA. But brother something like 055d is so shining that might blind their eyes.

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## waja2000

There is video for launching ceremony in China ...waiting member can upload in Youtube.

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## Dungeness

waja2000 said:


> There is video for launching ceremony in china ...waiting member can upload in Youtube.



It is on Youtube already.

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## AmirPatriot

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Right now, it will be the like the SAM HQ-9B, the ASM like YJ-18, the LACM like DH-10, the torpedo like YU-8.
> 
> Later the anti-ballistic missile system like the HQ-26 will be installed into that platform.



But realistically, what would be the aims of the HQ-26? There is precious little that can intercept an ICBM. Certainly a ship based anti-ICBM ABM is more or less out of the question. So what would be the target of the HQ-26? An expanded South Korean missile program?


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## 帅的一匹

AmirPatriot said:


> But realistically, what would be the aims of the HQ-26? There is precious little that can intercept an ICBM. Certainly a ship based anti-ICBM ABM is more or less out of the question. So what would be the target of the HQ-26? An expanded South Korean missile program?


 I think it's USA's ballastic missile.

Type 055 can help to protect the major Mega cities along the coastal line.

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## AmirPatriot

wanglaokan said:


> I think it's USA's ballastic missile.


You think HQ-26 can intercept an ICBM?


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## 帅的一匹

What I concern the most is that it can carry cruise missiles. Means we can cover India when our ship patrol in the Indian Ocean.



AmirPatriot said:


> You think HQ-26 can intercept an ICBM?


Of course. It's designed to do so. Terminal intercepter.

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## AmirPatriot

wanglaokan said:


> Of course. It's designed to do so. Terminal intercepter.



So you think a ship based missile can intercept an ICBM when it is fastest and can pull the highest Gs...

Permit me to be sceptical.


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## 帅的一匹

必要时停靠在卡拉奇港的055就可以向印度发射远程巡航单，打击其境内的高价值军事目标。



AmirPatriot said:


> So you think a ship based missile can intercept an ICBM when it is fastest and can pull the highest Gs...
> 
> Permit me to be sceptical.


American is doing the same with Aleigh Burke, better something than nothing.

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## AmirPatriot

wanglaokan said:


> American is doing the same with Aleigh Burke, better something than nothing.



America doesn't intend to intercept ICBMs with naval ABMs (unless maybe lower tech NK ICBM/IRBMs). They are geared toward intercepting TBMs and MRBMs.

I think it is more likely the HQ-26 is designed to intercept TBMs used by regional countries.

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## Speeder 2

AmirPatriot said:


> So you think a ship based missile can intercept an ICBM when it is fastest and can pull the highest Gs...
> 
> Permit me to be sceptical.



Of course it can.

HQ26 is the SM-3 equivalent.

Strictly speaking both of them are anti-IRBM ( intermediate range ballistic missles).

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## grey boy 2

AmirPatriot said:


> So you think a ship based missile can intercept an ICBM when it is fastest and can pull the highest Gs...
> 
> Permit me to be sceptical.


Did you ask the same question with the US "Sea-Based Midcourse" ABMD?
I believed nobody will made something thats not workable with plenty of money and manpower being invested? NO?

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## GS Zhou

wanglaokan said:


> 必要时停靠在卡拉奇港的055就可以向印度发射远程巡航单，打击其境内的高价值军事目标。


效费比太低，没必要。布置在青藏高原的远火旅或者东十旅就能承担同样的任务，且火力强度会大很多。更重要的是这些火力打击单元完全处在我空军的保护范围之内。

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## 帅的一匹

Normally type 55 will only fit HQ9b. When it runs anti-ballastic operations, can fit HQ26 anytime it needs. I think it's the only DDG in this world can carry 100 plus AshM in one go. Insane!



GS Zhou said:


> 费效比太低，没必要。布置在青藏高原的远火旅或者东十旅就能承担同样的任务，且火力强度会大很多。更重要的是这些火力打击单元完全处在我空军的保护范围之内。


印度阿三最近好狂，是不是要教育一下了？

我们在家里修路阿三都要来插一脚，是不是等同于宣战？

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## GS Zhou

wanglaokan said:


> 印度阿三最近好狂，是不是要教育一下了？


问题是饭要一口口吃呀。四面出击的话，再厚的家底也不够折腾啊。优先度排序的话，现阶段怎么也轮不到藏南呀。

算了，这些问题太敏感，没必要在一个国外的网站讨论。

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## 帅的一匹

grey boy 2 said:


> Did you ask the same question with the US "Sea-Based Midcourse" ABMD?
> I believed nobody will made something thats not workable with plenty of money and manpower being invested? NO?


Can we fit HQ19 mid course ABM on type 055?

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## Speeder 2

wanglaokan said:


> I think it's the only DDG in this world can carry 100 plus AshM in one go. Insane!



So it gonna be guaranteed saturation attack, no chance of survival even for Ford-Class carrier, let alone Zumwalt, AB 2 or AB 3

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## 帅的一匹

GS Zhou said:


> 问题是饭要一口口吃呀。四面出击的话，再厚的家底也不够折腾啊。优先度排序的话，现阶段怎么也轮不到藏南呀。
> 
> 算了，这些问题太敏感，没必要在一个国外的网站讨论。


我们不想挑事但是印度可抓住这点不放啊。是不是可以有限度的回击一下。

阿三可是一个给点阳光就灿烂的国家

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## 艹艹艹

多上点图啊！

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## cnleio

2017.06.28 1st launch of China Type055 DDG (10,000+ ton)



> 军报记者上海6月28日电（记者陈国全、尹航）海军新型驱逐舰首舰下水仪式今天上午在上海江南造船（集团）有限责任公司举行。中央军委委员、军委装备发展部部长张又侠出席下水仪式并致辞。
> 上午9时许，仪式开始，随着仪式现场全体人员齐声高唱的国歌声，鲜艳的五星红旗冉冉升起。剪彩后进行了“掷瓶礼”，一瓶香槟酒在舰艏摔碎，绚丽的彩带从两舷喷射而出，新型驱逐舰鸣响汽笛，全场响起热烈掌声。随后，驱逐舰在拖曳牵引下缓缓移上浮箱后下水。
> 该型舰是我国完全自主研制的新型万吨级驱逐舰，先后突破了大型舰艇总体设计、信息集成、总装建造等一系列关键技术，装备有新型防空、反导、反舰、反潜武器，具有较强的信息感知、防空反导和对海打击能力，是海军实现战略转型发展的标志性战舰。该舰下水标志着我国驱逐舰发展迈上了一个新的台阶，对于完善海军装备体系结构、建设强大的现代化海军、实现中国梦强军梦具有重要意义。下一步该舰将按计划开展设备调试、系泊航行试验。
> 海军、国防科技工业局、上海市、中船工业集团领导沈金龙、苗华、唐登杰、应勇、董强，以及军地有关部门领导和科研单位人员、干部职工、参建官兵代表等参加仪式。









































The details of 1st China Type055 DDG
*U can see front 8x8 VLS cells ... and back VLS cells ?*

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## Deino

Video (HD) of the launch ceremony

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## rcrmj

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Right now, it will be the like the SAM HQ-9B, the ASM like YJ-18, the LACM like DH-10, the torpedo like YU-8.
> 
> Later the anti-ballistic missile system like the HQ-26 will be installed into that platform.


only HHQ-9, YJ-18 and Y-8 at the moment, it is still not capable of launching LACM for the time being

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, this is the lead ship of the Type 055 class, so China will likely rush in its completion just like what they did to the DDG-172. Maybe they will rush to commission the ship prior the 70th anniversary of the PLAN which will be scheduled in April 23rd 2019. However, being fully operational and combat ready may even take longer.




I fully agree with You even by the same arguments but anyway got by typical bashing since he expect commissioning already in April 18 !


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## cnleio

One photo show Type055's AESA radar slots ... install many phased array radars

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## grey boy 2



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## rcrmj

Deino said:


> I fully agree with You even by the same arguments but anyway got by typical bashing since he expect commissioning already in April 18 !


the platform is quite mature, 80% of the sub-systems are well tested and used on 052D````so it wont take long time to commission, nor immediately````

112 VLS, 13,000 maximum tonnage, state-of-art control and command center, and they need a lot of it

btw```well, I could be wrong with the number of VLS````because this was what I had been "told"``

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## grey boy 2

112 VLS ?

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## cnleio

grey boy 2 said:


> 112 VLS ?


Type055 DDG totally has 112x VLS cells, front 64x, back 48x .

Type055's antenna

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## AmirPatriot

Speeder 2 said:


> Strictly speaking both of them are anti-IRBM ( intermediate range ballistic missles).



But where is the IRBM threat to China? I suppose India, but the China has land based missiles for that.



grey boy 2 said:


> Did you ask the same question with the US "Sea-Based Midcourse" ABMD?



Aegis isn't anti-ICBM either. It is anti-TBM/MRBM/IRBM. 

The thing is, the US' opponents like Iran, China, Russia, NK etc. all have either TBMs or MRBMs or both. Out of China's opponents only India has IRBMs, and China has land based interceptors for those.



grey boy 2 said:


> 112 VLS ?



So 112 VLS cells then. What a surprise, wikipedia was wrong.


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## monitor

Only high resolution picture

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## 星海军事

cnleio said:


> One photo show Type055's AESA radar slots ... install many phased array radars
> 
> View attachment 406985



This is my CG

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## homing28



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## Stuttgart001

AmirPatriot said:


> But where is the IRBM threat to China? I suppose India, but the China has land based missiles for that.
> 
> 
> 
> Aegis isn't anti-ICBM either. It is anti-TBM/MRBM/IRBM.
> 
> The thing is, the US' opponents like Iran, China, Russia, NK etc. all have either TBMs or MRBMs or both. Out of China's opponents only India has IRBMs, and China has land based interceptors for those.
> 
> 
> 
> So 112 VLS cells then. What a surprise, wikipedia was wrong.



Dude, Standard-6 could intercept ICBM with its max height of 600km. So Aegis destroyer can do the anti-ICBM job.
Besides, PLA is the biggest fan of US arm force, due to lack of combat experience. So the logic of armament development of PLA, we should get what the US has owned or been developing, meanwhile some asymmetrical measures should be developed in order to fill the gap in some aspects which we are behind of US timely.

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## ChineseToTheBone

星海军事 said:


> This is my CG


Amazing job! Thank you for your great work.

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## Speeder 2

AmirPatriot said:


> But where is the IRBM threat to China? I suppose India, but the China has land based missiles for that.
> .



But where is the IRBM threat to China? A good question!

So China can stop developing High Speed Rail now, cuz where is the railway threat to China? 

------

Now, China develops technologies for the sake of technology advancement, not only for any imminent threat. 

Where's IRBM threat coming from? 055 will be used anywhere in the world whenver situations arise, which could be any.

India threat? Please, do not insult Chinese intelligence.

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## yusheng



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## clibra

waja2000 said:


> nice 055, so huge, the completion is looking good for first ship, look like already able to sea trial,
> hopefully can get side view...



Yes you are right, almost all weapons and E-stuff were installed and ready for testing and validation in coming sea trial.

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## teddy

What Sonar system does it used? Why isthe sooner hull is far more smaller than those US' DDG??


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## clibra

Speeder 2 said:


> Say
> 
> 22 YJ18
> 16 YU8
> 32 HQ19
> 26 CJ10
> 32X4 HQ26
> 
> The most awesome fire power on the planet!



WTF! is this so called 大炸逼？ is "big blaster" the English of 大炸逼？



GS Zhou said:


> 效费比太低，没必要。布置在青藏高原的远火旅或者东十旅就能承担同样的任务，且火力强度会大很多。更重要的是这些火力打击单元完全处在我空军的保护范围之内。



correct，and the 5 km high altitude can give us range bonus.

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## clibra

teddy said:


> What Sonar system does it used? Why isthe sooner hull is far more smaller than those US' DDG??


Who got the bigger ball ? Who is the real man? 

055





KDX3






the 67th Arleigh Burke class






Dude, now do you think US' DDG were sissies ?

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## monitor

*China launches Asia’s biggest, most advanced warship, giving PLA greater reach*
The Type 055 destroyer is similar in size to the US Navy’s Arleigh Burke class ships and is billed as a major step forward for Chinese sea power




Liu ZhenUPDATED : Thursday, 29 Jun 2017, 12:06AM


 32
Beijing launched what it calls the most advanced and largest warship in Asia on Wednesday, billing it as a major step forward in the modernisation of its navy, according to the official military newspaper.

As the first of the new Type 055 guided-missile destroyers – which have a displacement of more than 12,000 tonnes – military experts said it was designed to accompany the country’s future aircraft carrier battle groups.

The destroyer was built at the Jiangnan shipyard in Shanghai and was equipped with air defence, anti-missile, anti-ship and anti-submarine weapons, _PLA Daily_ newspaper reported.

_
The launch of the warship marks an important step towards China’s dream of having a strong and modern naval force, General Zhang Youxia, a member of the Central Military Commission who oversees the army’s equipment, was quoted as saying at the launch ceremony.

Military analysts said the Type 055 was in theory the world’s second most powerful destroyer – after the US Navy’s DDG-1000, or the Zumwalt class. The capabilities of the Type 055 surpass South Korea’s DDG-991 and Japan’s Atago class, which have a 10,000 tonne displacement.








An artist’s impression of the Type 055 destroyer, which China says is the most advanced warship in Asia. Photo: Handout


“In some respects – such as the size, radar system, missile capacity and the multifunctionality in use – the Type 055 has now caught up, or at least it’s on the same level as the United States’ main destroyer,” Li Jie, a Beijing-based naval expert, said.

Can China's powerful new navy behemoth outclass America's warships?

With its size far exceeding a standard destroyer, the launch of the Chinese-designed and built 055 was as significant as that of an aircraft carrier, affording the People’s Liberation Army Navy advanced sea capability and weaponry development, experts said.

The need to protect the country’s overseas interests and vital waterways used by oil tankers and cargo ships is expected to increase as the country’s ambitious belt and road trade initiative starts to take shape. But unlike the US Navy, which has a true global presence, PLA ships do not have many overseas ports for resupply, according to Beijing-based military analyst Zhou Chenming.









Type 052D Chinese destroyers Yinchuan and Changsha. Photo: SCMP Pictures


“A larger, better equipped and more advanced vessel will allow the Chinese navy to go further and better protect the country’s interests overseas,” Zhou said. “The Type 055 has filled a big gap.”

Li said the warship would play an important role escorting aircraft carriers or the new advanced Type 071 amphibious assault ships, and it could also lead a comprehensive combat group of smaller destroyers and frigates.

For these purposes the PLA Navy would need at least 10 Type 055 destroyers, and at the current capacity China could build one or two a year, Li said.

Meanwhile, the sheer size of the warship means there is space for more – and more powerful – weapons. Before the 055, the PLA Navy’s most advanced destroyer was the Type 052D, a 7,500-tonne vessel that squeezed in a flat-array radar, a 64-cell vertical launch system (VLS) and long-range anti-air missiles.






Details of the new destroyer.


“It’s like a small boy carrying a huge bag that’s difficult to handle,” Zhou said of the 052D destroyer.

The Type 055, according to the Jane’s Defence Weekly, is over 180 metres long – more than 20 metres longer than 052D. It has a 128-cell VLS and missiles to attack planes, ships, submarines and missiles, making it the most powerful destroyer in Asia.

Given its size, it could also serve as a platform to develop the next generation of weapons, such as high-energy radio-frequency equipment, Zhou said.“When you have a bigger home, you can fit in different new furniture.”

But Macau-based military analyst Antony Wong Dong said the Type 055 had some “disappointing” design flaws. The relatively low positioning of its flat-array radar system would affect its range of detection, he said, while the use of light aluminium alloy in the upper decks would make it vulnerable to damage.

“Despite its very modern stealth shape, the damage control capability is a big concern,” Wong said. “The design follows the Chinese convention, probably due to a lack of experience ... in a combat situation.”

Next, the warship will undergo equipment and sea testing and it is due to enter service next year.
_

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## cnleio

BIG SHIP MADE IN CHINA ~!









































Compare with Zumwalt-class DDG-1000

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## AmirPatriot

Stuttgart001 said:


> Dude, Standard-6 could intercept ICBM with its max height of 600km.



No it can't. Even Raytheon don't claim that. It has only ever been tested against MRBMs, not even IRBMs.



Stuttgart001 said:


> So the logic of armament development of PLA, we should get what the US has owned or been developing



In my humble opinion, that isn't a great logic. And I'm not sure it is followed by the PLA.

Each country has its own specific military requirements because each country has its own likely military threats.

The US is an interventionist power, therefore it requires a weapon for basically everything. Hence it needs a ship based ABM to intercept ballistic missiles fielded by many of its opponents like Iran and China.



Speeder 2 said:


> Now, China develops technologies for the sake of technology advancement, not only for any imminent threat.



That doesn't hold water for me. If you want to advance your military technology for future (but not current or foreseeable) threats, you set up an advanced research program. That's why the US has DARPA.



Speeder 2 said:


> Where's IRBM threat coming from? 055 will be used anywhere in the world whenver situations arise, which could be any.



Anywhere around the world? But China is not an interventionist power. China's primary area of concern is South China Sea and maybe the pacific. In none of these theatres does China face a TBM/MRBM threat. Unless, as I've already asked, China considers continuing South Korean BM development or India's BM program a threat.



Speeder 2 said:


> So China can stop developing High Speed Rail now, cuz where is the railway threat to China?



What has high speed rail got to do with the anti-ballistic missile capabilities of China's new DDG?

More to the point, what is a "railway threat"? 



Speeder 2 said:


> India threat? Please, do not insult Chinese intelligence.



So then where's the threat that requires ship based ABM?


----------



## Stuttgart001

AmirPatriot said:


> No it can't. Even Raytheon don't claim that. It has only ever been tested against MRBMs, not even IRBMs.
> 
> 
> 
> In my humble opinion, that isn't a great logic. And I'm not sure it is followed by the PLA.
> 
> Each country has its own specific military requirements because each country has its own likely military threats.
> 
> The US is an interventionist power, therefore it requires a weapon for basically everything. Hence it needs a ship based ABM to intercept ballistic missiles fielded by many of its opponents like Iran and China.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't hold water for me. If you want to advance your military technology for future (but not current or foreseeable) threats, you set up an advanced research program. That's why the US has DARPA.
> 
> 
> 
> Anywhere around the world? But China is not an interventionist power. China's primary area of concern is South China Sea and maybe the pacific. In none of these theatres does China face a TBM/MRBM threat. Unless, as I've already asked, China considers continuing South Korean BM development or India's BM program a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> What has high speed rail got to do with the anti-ballistic missile capabilities of China's new DDG?
> 
> More to the point, what is a "railway threat"?
> 
> 
> 
> So then where's the threat that requires ship based ABM?


Apparently, you know little about China millitary.
I overtly point out that China is developing the ABM to counter the threat from US.

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## AmirPatriot

Stuttgart001 said:


> Apparently, you know little about China millitary.



That is true, and I don't hide this fact. That is why I came here asking questions.



Stuttgart001 said:


> I overtly point out that China is developing the ABM to counter the threat from US.



So you think China is developing a naval ABM to counter US ICBMs?


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## Speeder 2

AmirPatriot said:


> That doesn't hold water for me. If you want to advance your military technology for future (but not current or foreseeable) threats, you set up an advanced research program. That's why the US has DARPA.



China is not the US. I guess you'll have to get used to the fact for the rest of your life, won't you? 




AmirPatriot said:


> Anywhere around the world? But China is not an interventionist power. China's primary area of concern is South China Sea and maybe the pacific. In none of these theatres does China face a TBM/MRBM threat. Unless, as I've already asked, China considers continuing South Korean BM development or India's BM program a threat.



"Anywhere around the world" & "interventionist power " are not 2 concepts that are mutually exclusive.

Imagine that I jet around the world on vacations, must I be an interventionist power, am I ? 

055 will be where Chinese merchant ships are, where Chinese overseas national interests are, to protect at all costs according to the UN charter, unless of course you think the UN charters are interventionist? 





AmirPatriot said:


> What has high speed rail got to do with the anti-ballistic missile capabilities of China's new DDG?
> 
> More to the point, what is a "railway threat"?



Err... see there is a thing in the world called "analogy". 




AmirPatriot said:


> So then where's the threat that requires ship based ABM?



Iran, for example.

Yeah, must be IRAN!


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## Stuttgart001

AmirPatriot said:


> So you think China is developing a naval ABM to counter US ICBMs?


Yes. It is obvious that the main rivalry of PLAN is US navy.
No one really believe US developed ABM tech to counter the Ballisitic Missiles of rogue nations.
People all know it is for China and Russia, and the latter and US used to develop their ABM system during cold war era and ceased then due to difficulty of technique and finance.
Altough it is not proven that the ABM system could intercept the latest ICBM of Russia and China, no one could predict how efficiently the ABM could evolve in the coming future.
Since China has resource to invest in this kind of tech, it is reasonable for China to develop similar system to persue relative balance in the nuclear mutual-deterrence between US and China.

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## Speeder 2

I love how are the Western media always term 055 as " _making it the most powerful destroyer in Asia. " 
_
As if outside Asia, e.g. America or Europe, it will not be the most powerful. This sour grape mentality is priceless!

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## AmirPatriot

Speeder 2 said:


> China is not the US. I guess you'll have to get used to the fact for the rest of your life, won't you?



What is it with your tone? I'm not here to troll, I'm asking why China needs a ship based ABM. The only thing I said China lacks is the capability to intercept ICBMs using ship based ABMs, which is a capability that no country currently holds.



Speeder 2 said:


> 055 will be where Chinese merchant ships are, where Chinese overseas national interests are, to protect at all costs according to the UN charter, unless of course you think the UN charters are interventionist?



Discounting the ridiculous idea of ballistic missiles attacking shipping, which overseas Chinese national interests are threatened by ballistic missiles?



Speeder 2 said:


> Err... see there is a thing in the world called "analogy".



And yours wasn't a very good one.



Speeder 2 said:


> Iran, for example!



Now you are just not being serious.



Stuttgart001 said:


> People all know it is for China and Russia, and the latter and US used to develop their ABM system during cold war era and ceased then due to difficulty of technique and finance.



Certainly in the cold war the US did develop ABMs to intercept Soviet/Chinese BMs, but at that time the main US enemy (USSR) was still operating MRBM/IRBMs, and so was the US. But the INF treaty means that neither now have MRBM/IRBMs. So US ABM capability continued and is now to be used against TBM/MRBM armed opponents of the US like Iran, China, North Korea etc.



Stuttgart001 said:


> Yes. It is obvious that the main rivalry of PLAN is US navy.



But the USN doesn't operate ballistic missiles.


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## ChineseTiger1986

rcrmj said:


> only HHQ-9, YJ-18 and Y-8 at the moment, it is still not capable of launching LACM for the time being



It is not installed yet, but it doesn't mean the platform is not capable.

Just like the Atago class is more advanced than the Kongo class. However, the Kongo class is equipped the SM-3 missiles, while the Atago class is not.



AmirPatriot said:


> But realistically, what would be the aims of the HQ-26? There is precious little that can intercept an ICBM. Certainly a ship based anti-ICBM ABM is more or less out of the question. So what would be the target of the HQ-26? An expanded South Korean missile program?



It depends, but the ultimate goal of the HQ-26 is being capable to intercept the ICBM.

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## Stuttgart001

AmirPatriot said:


> What is it with your tone? I'm not here to troll, I'm asking why China needs a ship based ABM. The only thing I said China lacks is the capability to intercept ICBMs using ship based ABMs, which is a capability that no country currently holds.
> But the USN doesn't operate ballistic missiles.


The SSBN could launch ballistic missiles.
As for now, China could not intercept ICBM, but we should enhance the capacility and accumulate experience,following what US is doing.
When it comes to the demand of PLAN, i have to say PLAN see USN as kind of a teacher, cause USN is the most advanced in spheres of either tech or tactics. 
In the past, there is limited resource for China, so China could not develop a navy with full spectrum capability, which was pursued by Soviet Union since 1970s.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Stuttgart001 said:


> The SSBN could launch ballistic missiles.
> As for now, China could not intercept ICBM, but we should enhance the capacility and accumulate experience,following what US is doing.
> When it comes to the demand of PLAN, i have to say PLAN see USN as kind of a teacher, cause USN is the most advanced in spheres of either tech or tactics.
> In the past, there is limited resource for China, so China could not develop a navy with full spectrum capability, which was pursued by Soviet Union since 1970s.



China could intercept the ICBM, but it is ground-based GMD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dong_Neng-2

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## Speeder 2

AmirPatriot said:


> What is it with your tone? I'm not here to troll, I'm asking why China needs a ship based ABM. The only thing I said China lacks is the capability to intercept ICBMs using ship based ABMs, which is a capability that no country currently holds.
> .



If you're not here to troll, then it gonna be easy. Developing full spectrum capabilities, constantly making the technologies better, is the goal of a world-class navy that China aspires to. So developing tech of ship-based ABM is 1) out of the need for a technology/knowledge accumlation, since the US has it , and 2) serves a real goal should the need arises in the unforeseeable future. The same with the US navy, people frequently do things not only in response to an existing specific threat. e.g. you could ask why the US develop rail guns, or Ford Class with EMALS? where is the threat? None!

In the same vein of logic, that high speed rail analogy still holds.

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## ChineseTiger1986

AmirPatriot said:


> What is it with your tone? I'm not here to troll, I'm asking why China needs a ship based ABM. The only thing I said China lacks is the capability to intercept ICBMs using ship based ABMs, which is a capability that no country currently holds.



As for the shipborne ABM, the US right now is the most advanced, and China is also working hard to fit the HQ-26 into the Type 055, but you may be right about no country has the de facto capability to intercept the ICBM with its shipborne ABM, since the VLS cell is simply too small to fit a large GMD interceptor missile.

As the platform per se, the Type 055 is the best platform in the world so far.

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## j20blackdragon

Compare this...






to this.






There is no comparison.

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## Speeder 2

Why people say duo-band, while in fact type 055 is quatro-band (X band, S band, C band, and UFH band)?

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## grey boy 2



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## samsara

Deino said:


> Video (HD) of the launch ceremony


And if you still remember about your repeated queries about its launching schedule, I once informed you that it's scheduled for launching somewhere in JULY 2017 based on the scattered info from some comrades from the Mainland China, it happened the actual realization is a bit earlier  very pleased to watch it! Just backed from my prairie trip on 6/28, and when turned on CCTV-4 this morning watched the news about its launch 
CONGRATULATIONS TO 'THE MIDDLE KINGDOM' for another ceaseless great work ... one after another...  JIAYOU !!!

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## 帅的一匹

grey boy 2 said:


>


淫贱100

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## yusheng

once upon a time, it was a rumor,









many unrecognized e-stuff

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## 帅的一匹



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## 帅的一匹

055太帅了，越看越帅！

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## monitor



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## yusheng



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## grey boy 2



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## Speeder 2

A reasonablely good analysis:
*
China's Type 055 Super Destroyer Is A Reality Check For The US And Its Allies*

*This is one impressive ship that underlines China's changing weapons development capabilities and its emerging greater naval strategy in the region and beyond.*

By Tyler Rogoway*June 28, 2017
*
China's launched its first Type 055 destroyer today—the most advanced surface combatant Beijing has ever designed and fielded. Pictures of the visually striking ship whipped around the internet, with many people being surprised that China was producing such an impressive warship. The truth is, the Type 055 is the J-20 stealth fighter/interceptor of the high-seas, and it not only is a showcase of China's rapidly evolving surface warfare and weapons development capabilities, but also a sign of what Beijing's overall maritime strategy will be in the not so distant future. 

When it comes to the Chinese Navy, the Type 055 is very roughly analogous to something between the American _Ticonderoga_ class cruiser a _Zumwalt_ class destroyer, in that it has similar capabilities and size to the_ Ticonderoga _class, but it also packs new technologies that will impact the future of Chinese surface combatant design like the _Zumwalt_ class does. The ship's stealthy exterior and its enclosed sensor mast are situated in between the latest _Arleigh Burke_ class destroyers and the _Zumwalt_ class developmentally speaking. 

The Type 055 could just as easily be classified as a cruiser than as a destroyer. It's 590 feet long and displaces between 10,000 and 12,000 tons. That is 81 feet longer and up to nearly 2,500 tons greater than America's latest _Arleigh_ _Burke_ class destroyers, making it closer in size to the US Navy's _Ticonderoga_ class cruisers than anything else. It also packs a _Ticonderoga _class's magazine size, with 128 vertical launch cells available. The _Arleigh Burke_ class has 96. These cells will be stuffed with land attack (YJ-18), and anti-ship missiles (YJ-12), as well as anti-submarine rockets (CY series). Yet, just like America's _Ticonderoga_ class cruisers, area air defense and slinging surface-to-air missiles will likely be this ship's overwhelming mission set and it's specially outfitted with a high-end sensor package that will exceed in this role. 

This new ship relies on a dual-band radar system similar in concept to the one that was supposed to be deployed on the DDG-1000 _Zumwalt_ class and that is currently equipping the _USS Gerald R. Ford__. _Two sets of active phased array radars, one being the larger S-band arrays on the vessel's super structure and the other being the smaller set of X-band arrays in the ship's enclosed sensor mast, equip the ship. The S-Band system is used for long range search and track, while the much more sensitive X-band system is used for tracking smaller, stealthier and high-speed objects with greater fidelity at lesser ranges. There are cross-over in capabilities between the two sensor arrays, which also adds to redundancy. No other ship in China's inventory possesses such a high-end radar system. 

The ship is likely to be primarily armed with a sea-going version of the HQ-9 long-range surface-to-air missile, as well as the HQ-16 medium-range SAM, and possibly quad-packed DK-10As. The DK-10A is based on the PL-12 air-to-air missile, and would act as a intermediate-range air defense missile roughly similar to the U.S. Navy's RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM). As time goes on, these ships will likely field other air defense missiles, like weapons capable of swatting down endoatmospheric hypersonic vehicles or China's own mid-course ballistic missile defense interceptors. These more exotic missiles could make good use of the ship's dual-band radar, advanced combat system, and plentiful VLS farm. 

The ship's anti-submarine warfare capabilities will also surpass the capacity of other Chinese warships, including space for two helicopters (eventually likely ASW variants of the Z-18) in its rear hangar and an expanded flight deck size. The ship will also likely use towed and variable depth sonar for hunting submarines, and will have its own torpedoes and rocket assisted torpedoes to prosecute marauding underwater threats. 

A H/PJ-38 130mm main gun and a H/PJ-11 30mm close-in weapon system (CIWS) round out the ship's major armaments. It will also likely receive China's "FL-3000N" version of the RIM-116 rolling-airframe missile system mounted in a turreted canister on the rear of the ship's superstructure. This combined with the 30mm CIWS will give the big surface combatant a strong close-in defensive capability against sea-skimming missiles, low-flying aircraft, and small boats. 

These ships are rumored to be equipped with integrated electric powerplants, whereby the ship's turbines provide electricity to drive electric motors that then turn the ship's screws—a major advancement in Chinese warship design if confirmed. They also feature the latest in electronic warfare capabilities and the most advanced mission systems deployed by the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) to date. 

Regardless of the Type 055's multi-mission capabilities, these ships are being built to be the preeminent escort for the Chinese carrier battle group, acting in a similar role as the _Ticonderoga_ class cruiser does today. This will include being the command and control hub for the battle group's anti-air warfare operations. In this role the Type 055 will fulfill something of a missing link within the People's Liberation Army Navy's order of battle, with the Type 052D destroyer being the most capable surface combatant before it—but one that is far more limited in capability and weapons capacity than the Type 055. 

With the PLAN slated to field a fleet of at least four aircraft carriers in the coming decade, the reason for building four of these ships at this time is clear. There will be at least one for each carrier battle group, and when the carriers are not sailing, these ships will be able to show the flag by themselves far from home, and bringing high-end multi-mission and command and control capabilities to smaller PLAN task forces. It is also likely that another four Type 055s will be built at some time following the initial batch, as China's aircraft carrier fleet expands.

In the end, China's new Type 055 destroyers are another indication of the amazing strides the country has made in their attempt to reach some sort of parity in multiple domains of warfare with the U.S. and especially its regional allies. That's not to say these ships and their weapons are as capable as their American counterparts, because in many ways they are not. Even China's shipbuilding capabilities are rumored to be lacking, especially in terms of quality, when compared to their American counterparts. The level of integration between their ship's sensors and weapons, the reliability of their missiles—especially when countermeasures are present—and their missile's overall performance abilities remain a question mark as well. 

But that's not really the point. The point is that China is preparing for a future of major naval power projection, with this vessel class sailing closely alongside their aircraft carriers—two of which are built. Together they are the most visible centerpieces of a much more aggressive and farther reaching naval strategy. This may not leave the US Navy shaking in its boots, but when it comes to regional powers such as India and Japan, that is a different story. These ships and the carriers they will support will likely end up having a persistent presence in the South China Sea, Taiwan Strait, Indian Ocean, and East China Sea—all places where tensions are high and territorial issues are top of mind. 

The Type 055 is also another signal that China can no longer be viewed as a potential adversary living in a perpetual "catch-up mode" technologically speaking. The Chinese are increasingly doing things their own way and even tacking big independent technological risks, such as incorporating a dual-band radar into a picket ship before the US does. So the Chinese military, and the industry that supports it, still be copycats when it comes to defense _concepts_, but increasingly less so in terms of discreet hardware and integrated weapons systems themselves. 

As time goes on, this change will leave the US and its allies reacting to Chinese military developments more than in the past. And China's weapons developments, which were largely based on questionable facsimiles of US or Russian systems in the past, are now becoming far less predictable and as a result are more concerning. 

_Contact the author: Tyler@thedrive.com_

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## Glass

how much does 1 cost


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## 帅的一匹

我在这个论坛7年了，印度人对中国可谓是又怕又恨！当然还有点民主国家的优越感。由于政府和媒体对中国多年以来不遗余力的抹黑和诽谤，老板姓基本属于对中国无感。我们的任务就是要把中国的每一个发展和技术突破都摆在他们面前，告诉他们别动不然就揍扁你。



lllxi1998 said:


> how much does 1 cost


Around 800 millions to 1 billions USD

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## Glass

how many will u buy


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## 帅的一匹

lllxi1998 said:


> how many will u buy


Four for first batch, and PLAN had ordered twelve. If navy feel satisfied, will add more.



royalharris said:


> 有时，我们真是要学一学毛子、白头鹰的冷静，和阿三这样的国家计较，本质上拉低了自身的档次
> 
> 和白头鹰针锋相对，那叫棋逢对手；
> 和阿三档次国家，争个对错，甚至盛气凌人，本身证明了自身不自信，甚至会让不相干的人反感
> 
> 以前国产装备差，最近逐渐赶上来了，推销需要注意技巧，推与拉相结合，避免“过分推销”，过于主动地推销，容易让人产生怀疑，大家对很容易得到的东西，不会去珍惜
> 为什么，*只要是土耳其有的装备，小巴都认为比中国的好呢，原因很多，但其中一方面，他们得到中国装备太容易，推销过于主动了*


说的对。另外一方面我们的产品广告和推销力度都不够。人孟加拉的歼7都能拍出F22的感觉。还有一点就是不要轻易技术转让。

小巴国内也要各方势力平衡的需求，很难全部采购中国装备。鸡蛋摆在一个篮子里他们也不放心。

不过话说回来，装备外销最终还是要看质量和性能。你毛子T50吹的再牛，人印度还是不感冒。

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## AmirPatriot

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It depends, but the ultimate goal of the HQ-26 is being capable to intercept the ICBM.



Is this officially stated? Because if true, it would be a truly monumental effort, which I wish China good luck with. 



Stuttgart001 said:


> The SSBN could launch ballistic missiles



Good point. Though these SLBMs are also ICBMs so the HQ-26 in its current form would have to try and take them out in the boost phase, which requires proximity to the launch location. 



Speeder 2 said:


> serves a real goal should the need arises in the unforeseeable future



The unforeseeable future is a strange place. In the unforeseeable future you could say even say Russia and China are on the brink of war, with the US backing China. Hence why military planners don't like planning for the unforeseeable. Military capabilities are often tailored to likely threats. For example why China developed the DF-21D - US carriers are the likely target. 



Speeder 2 said:


> you could ask why the US develop rail guns, or Ford Class with EMALS? where is the threat? None!



Again not a great analogy. Rail guns and EMALS are enhancing current capabilities (naval artillery and aircraft deck ops on carriers), while a ship borne ABM is a relatively new capability for China.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As the platform per se, the Type 055 is the best platform in the world so far.



Well it's certainly one of the best, but definitive assertions like that are a bit tricky. Not saying it's not the best, just that to make that assertion one needs to make a lot of comparisons. 



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> no country has the de facto capability to intercept the ICBM with its shipborne ABM, since the VLS cell is simply too small to fit a large

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## cnleio

dy1022 said:


> 小巴最近买土鸡的船和直升机 除了平衡以外 主要是钱和易货交易 土鸡也要买几十架小巴的飞机的 土鸡提供优惠信用贷款 估计最后是狗大户给小巴买单，但小巴买土鸡船的事 可能还有变数 因卡塔尔 叙利亚和伊朗的事 狗大户现在和土鸡闹僵了 好像取消了向土鸡买船的合同 所以小巴的合同如果没有狗大户买单的话 能不能顺利执行还两说呢。
> 
> 中国这里因为8艘S20P的合同 已经给小巴提供了五十亿美元的信用担保 不可能再多了 中巴之间大的军贸合同最近几年估计悬。
> 
> VT4 近600万美元一辆 没人买单 没有信用担保 中国又不需要小巴的武器做易货交易 这样的情况下 小巴选便宜坦克 二手幻影和F16 很正常


The powerful weapon need huge money to pay and maintain it, a country economy decide how many powerful weapons can own and serve in the military force.

If a country has big market + huge money, also has advanced-tech ... simply the country has the way to be Super-Power, it means ppl in the country can build many powerful weapons by themselves.
*
Just one Type055 DDG means nothing ... but twenty Type055 DDGs mean everything.*

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## cnleio



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## Deino

*Guys ... we have a rule and that says the forum-language is English !

So please in respect to all other non-Chinese members give at least a summary or translation.*

Deino

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## cnleio

@Stuttgart001 @wanglaokan

Just right now, what u talk about can't solved until Oil==￥ to replace *Oil==＄* ... that's core problem in the Middle-East, also is blasting fuse to all disasters in the Middle-East.

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## Deino

*What part of my request did You not understand ????*

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## clibra

Speeder 2 said:


> I love how are the Western media always term 055 as " _making it the most powerful destroyer in Asia. "
> _
> As if outside Asia, e.g. America or Europe, it will not be the most powerful. This sour grape mentality is priceless!


Maybe "_the most powerful destroyer in east Asia. " make them more comfortable. _



Deino said:


> *What part of my request did You not understand ????*


 Deino those guys are too involved, you need to use @ to wake them up.

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## Bussard Ramjet

clibra said:


> Maybe "_the most powerful destroyer in east Asia. " make them more comfortable._



But isn't Zumwalt of 15,000 tonnage?


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## nang2

Bussard Ramjet said:


> But isn't Zumwalt of 15,000 tonnage?


Last time I checked, US isn't in east Asia. Maybe time has changed?

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## antonius123

Some said it is 12800 ton, but other said 10,000 tons, which one is correct?

I thought it was 14,000 ton instead.

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## jkroo

antonius123 said:


> Some said it is 12800 ton, but other said 10,000 tons, which one is correct?
> 
> I thought it was 14,000 ton instead.


Most said its a 10000 tons level, lol. Just be optimistic.

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## Bussard Ramjet

nang2 said:


> Last time I checked, US isn't in east Asia. Maybe time has changed?



Read the quote that it was replying to. 

Someone said that Type 55 is the most powerful in the world world.


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## nang2

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Read the quote that it was replying to.
> 
> Someone said that Type 55 is the most powerful in the world world.


I see. What I saw in your quote was this: "Maybe "_the most powerful destroyer in east Asia. " make them more comfortable." _

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## ChineseTiger1986

jkroo said:


> Most said its a 10000 tons level, lol. Just be optimistic.



According to POP3, the normal displacement of the Type 055 is 12000 tons.

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## Speeder 2

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> According to POP3, the normal displacement of the Type 055 is 12000 tons.



Rumors say that the full displacement of 055 is 14,000 tons, just a bit shy of Zumwalt. Is that right?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Speeder 2 said:


> Rumors say that the full displacement of 055 is 14,000 tons, just a bit shy of Zumwalt. Is that right?



Not surprised, since the draught is already 9 meters (compared the 8.4 meters of the DDG-1000) which indicates this ship has large capacity of displacement.

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## 52051

Speeder 2 said:


> Rumors say that the full displacement of 055 is 14,000 tons, just a bit shy of Zumwalt. Is that right?



Its not a rumor, it is from PLA daily, the mouthpiece of PLA, now anything who says otherwises are rumors, and disproved ones.

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## 帅的一匹

52051 said:


> Its not a rumor, it is from PLA daily, the mouthpiece of PLA, now anything who says otherwises are rumors, and disproved ones.


Then it's a real sense Cruiser than a Destroyer.

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## Stuttgart001

wanglaokan said:


> Then it's a real sense Cruiser than a Destroyer.


it is a destroyer. No need to brag.
China will never built cruiser. We are a nation who love peace. The aim of developing armament is to defense our territory and interest.
Pls no more Chinese language. There are some foreigners of Chinese descendent who can understand what you said.

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## 帅的一匹

Stuttgart001 said:


> it is a destroyer. No need to brag.
> China will never built cruiser. We are a nation who love peace. The aim of developing armament is to defense our territory and interest.
> Pls no more Chinese language. There are some foreigners of Chinese descendent who can understand what you said.


Actual its a frigate



Stuttgart001 said:


> it is a destroyer. No need to brag.
> China will never built cruiser. We are a nation who love peace. The aim of developing armament is to defense our territory and interest.
> Pls no more Chinese language. There are some foreigners of Chinese descendent who can understand what you said.


Actual its a frigate





If Japanese call this is a helicopter frigate then type 55 is just covette per their standard.

How hypocritical is that!

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## Han Patriot

Bussard Ramjet said:


> But isn't Zumwalt of 15,000 tonnage?


Buzz, lets have a civil discussion. US is not exactly an Asian country and Zumwalt is designed for different roles. It is primarily a solo hero, utilizing stealth to do critical naval strike. 055 is designed for accompanying naval battle groups. Furthermore, we all know the problems plaguing the Zumwalt.

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## Daniel808

wanglaokan said:


> Then it's a real sense Cruiser than a Destroyer.



Type 055 is a Destroyer with Cruiser's Firepower and Capabilities 

With 12,000 Tonnes Normal Displacement and Full Displacement 14,000 Tonnes , DAMN !

China's Navy classified Type 055 as Destroyer, but US Dod in their 2017 report classified Type 055 Renhai Class as a Cruiser 

By the way, there is someone post regarding Type 055 in this matter. Worth to read, Credit to @jobjed

*Jobjed post regarding Type 055 Destroyer:*
The PLAN didn't introduce a fleet-command function onto the 055 so much as they improved it. I've told you this before; all PLAN destroyers have task force-command capabilities but only some have fleet-command capabilities. While the Burkes have no fleet-command capabilities, the 052Ds do, as do other select ships in the PLAN destroyer fleet. Of note, a Type 051 antique and DDG 112 are two of those 'select' ships. The rest of the 051s and DDG 113 do not have those command facilities and are handicapped in that regard like the Burkes.

That is how the PLAN does things; integrate fleet-command facilities into select destroyer hulls. It might be different to how the USN does things but these are PLAN ships and they can delegate to them whatever roles they want. The Type 055 is classified as a destroyer and will be employed like one so it's a destroyer to me. The USN can call it whatever they want when they talking amongst themselves but they're not the ones who conceptualised, developed, built, and will be operating it so their classification is not authoritative beyond USN circles.

As a analogy, if I classified the Burke as neither a destroyer or cruiser, but as an Aegis yatch, the USN isn't going to care how I've classified it because I'm not the one who conceptualised, designed, built, and operated the Burke so my classification is not authoritative. I can call the Burke a yatch when I'm talking to my friends but outside my circle, the Burke is a destroyer, not a yatch. Likewise, outside USN circles, the 055 is a destroyer, not a cruiser.

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## rcrmj

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is not installed yet, but it doesn't mean the platform is not capable.
> 
> Just like the Atago class is more advanced than the Kongo class. However, the Kongo class is equipped the SM-3 missiles, while the Atago class is not.
> 
> 
> 
> It depends, but the ultimate goal of the HQ-26 is being capable to intercept the ICBM.


the 'capability' of firing cruise missile, TBM or IRBM or whatever is consists of many things, having the tube and VLS is one thing, but how about software, battle management system and conduct codes?? well, as far as I know, the current 055 does not have those things installed or implemented yet`````maybe on the later version````but it is the most advanced air defense ship the world has ever seen so far!



teddy said:


> What Sonar system does it used? Why isthe sooner hull is far more smaller than those US' DDG??


arry arry arry arry````very powerful!

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## GS Zhou

Daniel808 said:


> Type 055 Renhai Class is a Destroyer with Cruiser's Firepower and Capabilities


Hi bro, can we stop using the stupid name like Renhai? The ship has its own class name given by parents: Type 055. And the stupid western names like Renhai, Luda, Luhu, Luyang means nothing to China or to the Chinese people.

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## ChineseTiger1986

rcrmj said:


> the 'capability' of firing cruise missile, TBM or IRBM or whatever is consists of many things, having the tube and VLS is one thing, but how about software, battle management system and conduct codes?? well, as far as I know, the current 055 does not have those things installed or implemented yet`````maybe on the later version````but it is the most advanced air defense ship the world has ever seen so far!



Well, I have already given the example between the Atago class and Kongo class.

The Atago class is more advanced than the Kongo class, but it is not integrated with the SM-3 yet.

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## Suika

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, I have already given the example between the Atago class and Kongo class.
> 
> The Atago class is more advanced than the Kongo class, but it is not integrated with the SM-3 yet.



The Atago-class currently use aegis baseline 7.1J. They are planned to be upgraded to baseline 9. Baseline is needed to operate the new SM3 block2A. The Kongo ships have SM3 but it's block1A and they use baseline 4 and 5. Baseline 9 is needed to operate SM3 block2A. Even though SM3 Block2A is undergoing testing, the Defense Ministry has already ordered some. Since the Kongo ships can't use them, it reasonable to expect baseline 9 to be installed in the Atago-class ships soon.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Suika said:


> The Atago-class currently use aegis baseline 7.1J. They are planned to be upgraded to baseline 9. Baseline is needed to operate the new SM3 block2A. The Kongo ships have SM3 but it's block1A and they use baseline 4 and 5. Baseline 9 is needed to operate SM3 block2A. Even though SM3 Block2A is undergoing testing, the Defense Ministry has already ordered some. Since the Kongo ships can't use them, it reasonable to expect baseline 9 to be installed in the Atago-class ships soon.



I know Atago is better than Kongo, and it is planning to integrate with the more advanced block IIA in the future.

I am just trying to explain that the Type 055 right now is not integrated with the HQ-26 ABM or even the YJ-100 LACM, but it doesn't mean it won't have it in the future. Just like the Atago class during its earlier deployment didn't have the SM-3, while the Kongo class got it earlier.

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## Suika

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I know Atago is better than Kongo, and it is planning to integrate with the more advanced block IIA in the future.
> 
> I am just trying to explain that the Type 055 right now is not integrated with the HQ-26 ABM or even the YJ-100 LACM, but it doesn't mean it won't have it in the future. Just like the Atago class during its earlier deployment didn't have the SM-3, while the Kongo class got it earlier.



It's a fair point. It's often the case that some new military system is deployed before reaching full design capabilities. I'm sure there are other examples as well.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Suika said:


> It's a fair point. It's often the case that some new military system is deployed before reaching full design capabilities. I'm sure there are other examples as well.



Another example is the Sejong the Great class, it is the peer of the Atago class, both models are based on the Flight IIA which are more advanced than the Flight I model of the Kongo class, but South Korea right now doesn't have the plan to integrate it with the SM-3 systems.

So it is just another superior Aegis model compared to the Kongo class that doesn't have the integrated ABM.

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## Deino

GS Zhou said:


> Hi bro, can we stop using the stupid name like Renhai? The ship has its own class name given by parents: Type 055. And the stupid western names like Renhai, Luda, Luhu, Luyang means nothing to China or to the Chinese people.




Agreed, but when it does not matter anything why then so annoyed? BY the way a Su-37 is also commonly called a Flanker and no-one really cares.

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## BDforever

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Another example is the Sejong the Great class, it is the peer of the Atago class, both models are based on the Flight IIA which are more advanced than the Flight I model of the Kongo class, but South Korea right now doesn't have the plan to integrate it with the SM-3 systems.
> 
> So it is just another superior Aegis model compared to the Kongo class that doesn't have the integrated ABM.


give us Typ055 destroyer

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## grey boy 2

*China's Destroyer 055, the imperial bodyguard of aircraft carriers*
(People's Daily Online) 18:34, June 29, 2017





(Photo/People.cn)

"China's first home-grown 10,000-tonne class missile destroyer is the most advanced in terms tonnage, informatization, and firepower," said Zhang Junshe, a researcher at the Naval Military Academic Research Institute in China, pointing out its superiority and significance to the Chinese navy.

Destroyer 055 is the first 10,000-tonne destroyer in China. According to Zhang, it fills the domestic gap of constructing large warships and reflects in the overall design, marking the new level of the development of Chinese navy.

Better information integration was achieved and defense capabilities were improved. The destroyer is also equipped with heavier firepower, and can carry more missiles because of the increased tonnage, which contributes to its excellent defense capabilities.

The advanced integrated operations capability of Destroyer 055 will enhance the navy's defense capabilities, as well as promote the strategic transformation of the Chinese navy, especially with regard to protecting the nation, Zhang said, expressing great confidence in the new destroyer. He has also pointed out the importance of sea lane security, as China increases its overseas investments in energy, and noted the important role the new destroyer can play in this regard.

What's more, Zhang mentioned that the new 10,000-tonne missile destroyer will help China's navy better undertake its international obligations and responsibilities, and providing more security for the international community, raising the example of the anti-piracy operation in the Gulf of Aden.

Talking about the future of Destroyer 055, Zhang hopes it will join the naval formation consisting of the Liaoning aircraft carrier. As can be seen in other countries, such 10,000-tonne destroyers have strong defense advantages, he said, adding that they play a significant role in protecting the security of carriers. 
http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0629/c90000-9235034.html

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## Han Patriot

BDforever said:


> give us Typ055 destroyer


A couple of these and we can destroy the Indian Navy. Jus kidding.

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## GS Zhou

Deino said:


> Agreed, but when it does not matter anything why then so annoyed? BY the way a Su-37 is also commonly called a Flanker and no-one really cares.


I don't want to make comment on Russian's feeling. You are not Russian, I'm not Russian. 

But as a Chinese, I don't like our baby to be called with a name that not given by the baby's parents. That's it.

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## Oldman1

GS Zhou said:


> Hi bro, can we stop using the stupid name like Renhai? The ship has its own class name given by parents: Type 055. And the stupid western names like Renhai, Luda, Luhu, Luyang means nothing to China or to the Chinese people.



Just ignore it. Its just a NATO designation.



Stuttgart001 said:


> it is a destroyer. No need to brag.
> China will never built cruiser. We are a nation who love peace. The aim of developing armament is to defense our territory and interest.
> Pls no more Chinese language. There are some foreigners of Chinese descendent who can understand what you said.




Would building a cruiser or destroyer matter by a nation who love peace? Or perhaps even an aircraft carrier?


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## yusheng

Defense Ministry's regular press conference on June 29

http://eng.mod.gov.cn/news/2017-06/30/content_4784139.htm

Question: Yesterday a new type of destroyer, called type-055 by some, was launched in Shanghai. This type of destroyer is believed to play a key role in China’s aircraft carrier task force and in building a blue-water navy. Could you offer us more information on this?

Answer: This new type of destroyer is domestically designed, with a displacement of 10,000 tons. The destroyer uses a* combined gas power system* and has *an integral system of radio frequency integration*. It uses vertical launching system and has an *integrated system on board for the operations and telecommunication*.

。。。。。 China’s defense policy which is defensive in nature and the active defense military strategy are clear-cut and will not change with the development of advanced weaponry.

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## IblinI

yusheng said:


> View attachment 407411
> View attachment 407412
> View attachment 407413
> 
> View attachment 407414
> View attachment 407415
> 
> Defense Ministry's regular press conference on June 29
> 
> http://eng.mod.gov.cn/news/2017-06/30/content_4784139.htm
> 
> Question: Yesterday a new type of destroyer, called type-055 by some, was launched in Shanghai. This type of destroyer is believed to play a key role in China’s aircraft carrier task force and in building a blue-water navy. Could you offer us more information on this?
> 
> Answer: This new type of destroyer is domestically designed, with a displacement of 10,000 tons. The destroyer uses a* combined gas power system* and has *an integral system of radio frequency integration*. It uses vertical launching system and has an *integrated system on board for the operations and telecommunication*.
> 
> 。。。。。 China’s defense policy which is defensive in nature and the active defense military strategy are clear-cut and will not change with the development of advanced weaponry.
> 
> View attachment 407416


Type 055 is much better than my expectation, i believed i am not the only one.

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## GeHAC

wanglaokan said:


> Actual its a frigate
> 
> 
> Actual its a frigate
> 
> View attachment 407381
> If Japanese call this is a helicopter frigate then type 55 is just covette per their standard.
> 
> How hypocritical is that!


Its a typical Stone Age misunderstanding.The “護衛艦” in Japanese doesn't mean frigate but "defence ship".They use it in equivalent to the warship.Just to avoid being criticized as a navy with “軍艦”“戦艦” and emphasize them a "defence force"
They actually maked the ship DDH,helicopter destroyer.

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## nomi007

any backside image


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## samsara

nomi007 said:


> any backside image


Just wait and be patient. Such image will surely be made available *here* when they're eventually made into open info.

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## samsara

cnleio said:


> The powerful weapon need huge money to pay and maintain it, a country economy decide how many powerful weapons can own and serve in the military force.
> 
> If a country has big market + huge money, also has advanced-tech ... simply the country has the way to be Super-Power, it means ppl in the country can build many powerful weapons by themselves.
> *
> Just one Type055 DDG means nothing ... but twenty Type055 DDGs mean everything.*


Remind me of the other mega stealthy warship touted as the world's largest and most advanced as well as the most costly destroyer, from planned number of 32 units eventually stopped at just three units.

Well, any nation needs to balance its military development with its economy capability and strength, otherwise the extended overspending in military sector in the long run will cripple the nation's resource and development incl. its economy!

Even a solo superpower with superprinting machine of such GRC will face dire problems if running bleeding spending in the military sector worsened by endless warring efforts in the long run, will need to partially resort to the looting of the resourceful weaker nations to patch the budget holes though it's futile in the long run.... the world history has been showing many of such doom cases over millennia. The Roman Empire at one time was so large and so powerful, so formidable yet its continuous reckless adventures and corrupt systems eventually collapsed that entity to the insignificant remnants.

Btw the dictated oil+currency-->GRC is the crux of the present world's problems and a solution for this much imposed problem to the humanity is sought after by many indeed. Tools such as 055 along with many others have the supportive role to improve things and set the more just playing ground in the long run, together with other aspects. Just saying.

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## Speeder 2

BDforever said:


> give us Typ055 destroyer



You won't start a world war 3 with that, will you?

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## UKBengali

Speeder 2 said:


> You won't start a world war 3 with that, will you?



A couple in BD Navy will make a certain Western neighbour very nervous.

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## lcloo

Since fitting-out is practically done before launching, we might see sea trials within 3 months, or even earlier.

Now the main tasks is testing and tuning electronic sensors and weapon systems. And this should not take too long. 052D takes 1 1/2 to 2 years period between launching and commissioning. 055 should be able to cut down this period drastically, may be 9 months to 1 year.

My bet is 055 will be commissioned before the last 052D (top left side of attached photo) launched by JNCX.

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## j20blackdragon



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## j20blackdragon



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## grey boy 2

Some said its confirmed there are 64 VLS at the back as well 而且基本可以肯定后面也是64了！

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## Place Of Space

grey boy 2 said:


> Some said its confirmed there are 64 VLS at the back as well 而且基本可以肯定后面也是64了！



Is it really very important there are 48 or 64 cells?

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## grey boy 2

Russian media: estimating the VLS of 055 ="128" 《今日关注》引用俄媒说法："128" VLS。

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## onebyone

*China's New Destroyer, The U.S. Navy's Anti-Ship Missile Failure, And Preemption*

*

*
*Anders Corr *


*
*

China’s military development cooperation with Russia, and fielding of the 055 destroyer, will fuel already-existing incentives for conventional first strike options, political tension and an arms race with the U.S., Japan, South Korea, Australia, Indonesia, and India.

The U.S. is not the only country that needs to wake up. China is taking catastrophic risk with its growing militarism.




*China unveiled its *Type 055 naval destroyer* on June 28, the latest step in its decade and a half of military buildup. The new Chinese destroyer outcompetes U.S. destroyers and cruisers, highlighting a major failure in U.S. Navy planning that stretches back to the 1990s. Given the 055’s long-range supersonic *YJ-18* and *YJ-12*over the horizon (OTH) anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCMs), the Chinese destroyer currently outcompetes U.S. Arleigh Burke class destroyers and bigger Ticonderoga class cruisers. Both ships rely on fewer and shorter-range Harpoon anti-ship missiles (ASMs) and aircraft carriers that are themselves vulnerable to China’s ballistic missiles. The U.S. Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM), under development since *2009*, would right the balance, but not for years to come, and meanwhile we must assume China will continue improving its capabilities. Reaction times to the latest supersonic and hypersonic anti-ship weapons can be as short as *15-30 seconds*. The YJ-18 and YJ-12 are inspired by *Russian design*, and the threat environment is complicated by unconventional technologies such as Russian-made anti-ship missiles camouflaged as commercial shipping containers. The U.S. Standard Missile-6 (*SM-6*) ASCM variant, which may be deployed before 2020, has less range than its Chinese counterparts. *China’s military development cooperation with Russia, and fielding of the 055 destroyer, will fuel already-existing incentives for conventional first strike options, political tension and an arms race with the U.S., Japan, South Korea, Australia, Indonesia, and India.* The arms race and tensions will hurt each country’s economic growth and international trade, as well as increase the risk of military conflict.*

*




Chinese officers from the 24th Chinese navy are seen onboard a Harbin Type 052 destroyer, which arrived as part of the Chinese fleet at Shuwaikh Port in Kuwait City, on February 1, 2017. The visit is the first to Kuwait in 5 years, and comes after finishing a watch mission at the Gulf of Aden and the Somali waters. Credit: YASSER AL-ZAYYAT/AFP/Getty Images*

*As military technology gets more sophisticated, a naval arms race in Asia will lead to military systems on hair-trigger alerts. The danger is that, as in World War II with Japan, China could one day calculate a military advantage to striking first with an array of air, sea, and rocket-delivered conventional weapons that could debilitate U.S. Navy vessels in the Pacific, as well as *other regional U.S. bases*. China is prepared to do so, at least in the South China Sea. According to Captain James Fanell (USN ret), former Director of Intelligence for U.S. Pacific Fleet, China has since 2015 adopted a man-to-man, rather than zonal, defense against U.S. Navy ships that traverse those international waters. China’s trend towards shadowing U.S. ships in the East China Sea is the same, according to Fanell, so we should assume that U.S. destroyers and cruisers there have been highly vulnerable over the past two years, and until at least 2021 when a subsonic U.S. ship-based ASCM will be fielded.*

*A Chinese conventional *first strike* against U.S. military forces in Asia is now technically plausible, and backed by China’s consistently preemptive *naval*, missile and cyber doctrines. This gives an incentive to the U.S. to itself strike first, especially if Chinese nuclear retaliation is calculated as unlikely. Such preemptive strikes, by either side, would lead to major power military conflict that would start with multiple nuclear powers, rather than end with one nuclear power as did World War II. It would be the most destructive war in world history, and so military technologies such as China’s 055 destroyer armed with YJ-18 ASCM that upset the balance of power in Asia are profoundly destabilizing and contrary to what one should expect from a status quo power. Such technologies are therefore ultimately counter to China’s broader commercial and security interests.
According to Fanell, U.S. Navy warship anti-ship cruise missile programs are just now being developed. Fanell said, "And how long will [it be before] LRASM or SM-6 numbers reach the numbers the PRC already has with the YJ-18? We appear to be behind the power curve for what could be a rather long time just as the PRC begins to consolidate its territorial claims in the maritime domain of the South and East China Seas over the next decade." Fanell has long argued for increased U.S. naval spending.*

*China’s 055 destroyer is for the first time among Chinese surface combatants capable of land attack missions. Just as U.S. and Russian destroyers have attacked land targets in Syria, we will likely see the advent of a more territorially aggressive Chinese navy in the next decade. Last month, China’s state-run media, the Global Times, quoted military expert Song Zhongping as saying, "The 052D, a 7,000-ton-destroyer with 64 launch units, is designed for tasks including anti-aircraft, anti-submarine and anti-warship defense, while it does not and should not be required to have ground attack capability, which should be carried out by bigger destroyers, the coming 055." The 055 modular weapons system includes the capability to launch the *nuclear capable CJ-10* land-attack cruise missile.*

*The 055 is a *10,000-ton* destroyer, but under a full load it displaces *12,000 to 14,000* tons of water. It could as easily be classed as a cruiser. There are 3 more under construction, and 4 on order, for a total of 8 “Renhai” 055 destroyers. The 055 has stealth features and up to 128 Vertical Launch System (VLS) tubes for missiles capable of hitting air, land, and sea targets. The VLS can also launch anti-satellite and anti-ballistic missiles currently under development by China. The stern of the ship has a hangar to accommodate two Z-18 anti-submarine warfare helicopters and vertical-launch unmanned aerial vehicles. The sophisticated 055 bow-mounted and variable depth sonars and dual x- and s-band radar *systems* can see hostile air, surface, and underwater objects up to 600 km away, as well as track smaller nearby projectiles. The 055 fuses this data with other Chinese ship, air, and satellite sensors for a global view of the battlespace.*

*The 052 destroyers can also launch nuclear-capable missiles, and each has 64 VLS tubes. There are *4 operational 052-class destroyers*, and 8 more under construction. This makes 20 total 052 and 055 Chinese destroyers capable of blue water operations far from shore. The relative lack of Chinese rearmament ships will not heavily affect Chinese destroyer operations in the South and East China seas, on which China appears to be focusing its maritime territorial growth.




Singapore Navy's RSS Independence sails past China's class 054 navy frigate Huangshan (R) and French navy vessel Frigate FS Prairial (C) during the inaugural maritime review along the strait near Changi Naval Base in Singapore on May 15, 2017. Twenty-eight foreign warships from 20 navies participated in the inaugural review, which is part of Singapore Navy's 50th anniversary celebration. Credit: ROSLAN RAHMAN/AFP/Getty Images*

*Another *25 smaller 056-class Chinese frigates* are operational, with 60 likely to be constructed in the coming years. These are also optimal for operations closer to China, for example in the South and East China Seas, or against Japan, South Korea, or Taiwan.*

*The 055 competes directly with the U.S. Navy’s Arleigh Burke class destroyers and Ticonderoga cruisers, which are the main delivery system for naval surface combatant firepower globally. The *Ticonderoga* class cruisers currently have 16 operational ships and 6 undergoing refurbishment at any given time.*

*There are *62* Arleigh Burke’s worldwide, and the U.S. Navy is building 14 more. They are smaller and carry less firepower than the 055’s. The Arleigh Burke destroyers displace 8,000 to 10,000 tons and have up to 96 VLS launch tubes each. That is a lot of potential firepower. But what debilitates the Arleigh Burke destroyers is their reliance on 8 Harpoon ASM tubes each, the range of which is limited to only 67 nautical miles compared with the YJ-18’s 290 nm range. Harpoon missiles *do not fit* into VLS tubes.*

*According to naval analysts, some of the U.S. destroyers in Asia do not even carry their full complement of Harpoon ASMs, and since *1999*, the Arleigh Burkes have not had any Harpoon launchers installed. Most U.S. destroyers, therefore, have only token anti-ship capabilities, making them vulnerable to a debilitating first strike in case of war. As Senior Fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments Bryan Clark noted in *testimony* to Congress in 2015,
“So if I want to shoot another ship and I am a surface ship, I have to wait until I am within Harpoon range if I have Harpoons even onboard, which means I am probably half of the distance that he can reach me. So he can — I am well within his weapons envelope when I do that.”*

*Professor of Strategy James Holmes at the U.S. Naval War College has some harsh words for the lack of a long-range ASM capability on U.S. cruisers and destroyers.*

*“The originators of this mismatch were the service chiefs back in 1992, who in a directive called From the Sea declared that there was no one left to fight after the Cold War and thus that our navy should reinvent itself as a "fundamentally different" naval force, [i.e.], a force that didn't have to fight to control the sea, and thus could concentrate on noncombat missions. When you get a signal like that from top leadership, what do you do? You stop training and equipping to fight rival navies, and you stop upgrading your armaments. After that it was inertia. No one corrected the mistake, and no one really started trying until CNO Greenert.”*

*Admiral Jonathan Greenert served as Chief of Naval Operations from 2011 to 2015. Bryan McGrath, who commanded an Arleigh Burke class destroyer from 2004 to 2006, *told* Congress in 2015 that because of the lack of an effective anti-surface warfare (ASuW) capability on the surface fleet, it has to rely for defense on air and submarine-delivered capabilities.*

*That decision and decisions about how to allocate missions within the portfolio — surface, subsurface and aviation — has led to a situation in which ... the Navy looks at the surface force, as something that needs to be protected by the air wing. I think that needs to be questioned…. As part of the peace dividend and in recognition of the lack of a blue water threat, the Harpoon missile system was removed from the Flight IIA Arleigh Burke Destroyers as a corporate Navy decision was made to rely on the carrier air wing and the submarine force to perform the ASuW mission.”*

*




The Republic of Korea destroyers Sejong the Great (DDG 991) and Yang Manchun (DDH 973), the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers USS Wayne E. Meyer (DDG 108), USS Michael Murphy (DDG 112) and USS Stethem (DDG 63), the Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruiser USS Lake Champlain (CG 57) and the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) patrol May 3, 2017 in the western Pacific Ocean. Credit: Z.A. Landers/U.S. Navy via Getty Images*

*Reliance on submarines and the carrier air wing limits the ability of surface combatants to execute missions individually, and entails risk from destruction of a single component in the system, effectively making the entire highly complex network as vulnerable as its weakest link. Fanell says, "We have this belief that Carrier air cover will always be there to protect our fleet and sink enemy ships … but what happens when a DF-21D or DF-26 sinks or seriously damages our aircraft carriers? Or when one of the PLAN Song, Yuan, or Shang submarines attacks our carriers with supersonic YJ-18 ASCMs … or PLAAF/PLANAF fighter bombers attack with air launched ASCMs? It seems to me that prudent military planning would take this into account and adjust our acquisition strategy accordingly … meaning the USN would have a surface fleet that could survive on its own by having the capability to fight other PLAN combatants mano-e-mano."*

*The U.S. Navy has made efforts at improving its ship-based ASuW capabilities. The SM-6 was recently converted for use as an ASM, but its range is only *250 nm* compared to the 290 nm range of China’s YJ-18. The Navy has not even fielded the ASM variant of the SM-6. According to Fanell, “the SM-6 ASM variant that was successfully tested in Hawaii last year ...may be fielded sooner than 2020 … but again, it is a piecemeal approach that is behind the timeline of PLAN production and fielding.”*

*The Next Generation Land Attack Weapon (*NGLAW*), which also has an anti-ship function, will not enter U.S. Navy service until 2028 or 2030. *Tomahawk* cruise missiles, with a range of 1,000 nm, are also undergoing modification for an ASCM capability, but are subsonic and therefore more easily targeted. They will not be fielded until 2021, and will likely go out of service in *2040*. Until then, and if China’s surface fleet has an anti-missile system capable of downing the slow Tomahawk, Navy destroyers and cruisers are uniquely vulnerable to China’s 052 and 055, armed with the long-range YJ-12 and YJ-18 ASMs. This vulnerability is a major mistake in naval planning that has led to the dangerous reliance of destroyers and cruisers on deterrence from aircraft carriers, submarines, and strategic escalation.*

*China’s new destroyer will fuel already-existing plans in the U.S. for increased naval spending, which will in turn lead to more naval spending in China. This is a costly arms race fueled by a security dilemma on the U.S. side, and territorial aggression on the Chinese side. China knows it has nothing to worry about in terms of U.S. initiating conflict were China a status quo power. But China is courting major power war through new military technologies that alter the status quo, at the same time as it initiates zero-sum territorial conflicts with multiple U.S. allies, including Japan in the East China Sea, the Philippines in the South China Sea, Taiwan (for its sovereignty), India in the Himalayas, and South Korea through China’s proxy North Korea.
The ground attack capability of the 055 should be of especial concern to Taiwan, whose territory is already under threat by ground-based missiles across the strait in mainland China. Because of China’s military buildup and territorial aggression, even during President Obama’s 8 years of relative pacifism toward China, it appears that China does not seek to be a responsible member of the international system. It seeks regional hegemony, even at the expense of strong U.S. allies like Japan, South Korea, Australia, and the Philippines. It seeks increased global influence and power projection capabilities, including through a string of naval ports reaching to Africa, and blue water naval vessels such as the 055 destroyer.*

*According to Fanell, the 055 launch “should be another wake-up call for the USN. This is a formidable combatant...that again out-guns/out-sticks its rivals in the USN. Watch for this to be mass produced over the next 5 years [with] numbers approaching a dozen at least.” Professor James Holmes, Professor of Strategy at the Naval War College, has made a similar *argument* regarding China’s coming superiority in submarine deployments.*

*With the Chinese Navy gaining in absolute numbers of naval combatants over the U.S., Fanell said, “a 350 ship navy that cannot engage and sink other nation’s warships is not acceptable.” The current USN of *276 ships* is projected by President Trump to grow to 355. If achieved by 2035, 355 ships would cost $107 billion per year, every year, until 2047. According to Holmes, “We'll be lucky to break 300 ships by 2020, no matter what Congress does…. We have some old stuff we could recommission, but (unlike the Iowa class battleships in the 1980s) those ships already have an awful lot of mileage on the odometer.”




Type 001A, China's second aircraft carrier, is seen during a launch ceremony at Dalian shipyard in Dalian, northeast China's Liaoning Province, April 26, 2017. China has launched its first domestically designed and built aircraft carrier, state media said on April 26, as the country seeks to transform its navy into a force capable of projecting power onto the high seas. Credit: STR/AFP/Getty Images*

*China has plans to reach *351 ships* by 2020, almost all of which will be concentrated in Asia. The U.S. will only devote about *60%*of its Navy to the Pacific. That gives China the advantage in an Asian naval contest in 2020, with 351 Chinese ships against about 180 U.S. ships. Holmes points out that,*

*“Absolute numbers aren't everything. The Soviet Navy outnumbered us throughout the Cold War and we got by. We were better on a ship-for-ship basis than they were. Still, numbers are important. Plus, this isn't just a fleet-on-fleet competition. We're talking about a fraction of the U.S. Navy matching up against the whole of the PLA Navy backed by the PLA Air Force and the PLA Rocket Force -- i.e., the PLA Navy backed up by a large arsenal of land-based planes, cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles. That's a lot of firepower to supplement the PLA Navy fleet. That could be China's great equalizer even if we remain stronger on the whole.”*

*The next four years are a critical period of vulnerability for the U.S. Navy. China will have a bigger and more concentrated surface fleet in Asia than will the U.S., and it will be better armed. It is no surprise that China, which cares little for international law or the status quo, is risk-acceptant, and subscribes to the principle that might makes right, is taking advantage of its regional naval superiority to take territory in the South and East China seas with impunity. It is no surprise that our allies have cold feet and are hedging towards China with economic and security agreements. It is an avoidable tragedy of our own making. We have watched since the early 1990s while China made great economic and military strides, often with our stolen technology. Yet we have not sanctioned it for its failure to make progress on international common values, such as democracy and human rights, that would make it a responsible international partner in terms of peace and stability.*

*Now we are paying the price, starting in the South and East China seas. According to Holmes, China’s regional strength “probably does help explain their confidence in the China seas.” If the U.S. cannot convince China to back away from its militarization and territorial revanchism in Asia, we will be forced into a dangerous and costly arms race, Cold War brinkmanship, or even conventional preemptive strike, to stop China’s expansion. The only other option will be conceding more territory and relative military power that will eventually lose us any vestiges of global moral, military, and economic leadership that remain after failing and debilitating wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and our general weakness against Russia and China’s territorial expansion. That will also lose us allies. It arguably already has.*

*China has given the U.S. a moment of truth. Will we take a stand, or continue our slide towards irrelevance? *The U.S. is not the only country that needs to wake up. China is taking catastrophic risk with its growing militarism.

*https://www.forbes.com/sites/anders...-missile-failure-and-preemption/#666f5107638f*

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## sheik

onebyone said:


> *China's New Destroyer, The U.S. Navy's Anti-Ship Missile Failure, And Preemption*
> 
> *
> 
> *
> *Anders Corr *
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> China’s military development cooperation with Russia, and fielding of the 055 destroyer, will fuel already-existing incentives for conventional first strike options, political tension and an arms race with the U.S., Japan, South Korea, Australia, Indonesia, and India.
> 
> The U.S. is not the only country that needs to wake up. China is taking catastrophic risk with its growing militarism.
> 
> *China unveiled its *Type 055 naval destroyer* on June 28, the latest step in its decade and a half of military buildup. The new Chinese destroyer outcompetes U.S. destroyers and cruisers, highlighting a major failure in U.S. Navy planning that stretches back to the 1990s. Given the 055’s long-range supersonic *YJ-18* and *YJ-12*over the horizon (OTH) anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCMs), the Chinese destroyer currently outcompetes U.S. Arleigh Burke class destroyers and bigger Ticonderoga class cruisers. Both ships rely on fewer and shorter-range Harpoon anti-ship missiles (ASMs) and aircraft carriers that are themselves vulnerable to China’s ballistic missiles. The U.S. Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM), under development since *2009*, would right the balance, but not for years to come, and meanwhile we must assume China will continue improving its capabilities. Reaction times to the latest supersonic and hypersonic anti-ship weapons can be as short as *15-30 seconds*. The YJ-18 and YJ-12 are inspired by *Russian design*, and the threat environment is complicated by unconventional technologies such as Russian-made anti-ship missiles camouflaged as commercial shipping containers. The U.S. Standard Missile-6 (*SM-6*) ASCM variant, which may be deployed before 2020, has less range than its Chinese counterparts. *China’s military development cooperation with Russia, and fielding of the 055 destroyer, will fuel already-existing incentives for conventional first strike options, political tension and an arms race with the U.S., Japan, South Korea, Australia, Indonesia, and India.* The arms race and tensions will hurt each country’s economic growth and international trade, as well as increase the risk of military conflict.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese officers from the 24th Chinese navy are seen onboard a Harbin Type 052 destroyer, which arrived as part of the Chinese fleet at Shuwaikh Port in Kuwait City, on February 1, 2017. The visit is the first to Kuwait in 5 years, and comes after finishing a watch mission at the Gulf of Aden and the Somali waters. Credit: YASSER AL-ZAYYAT/AFP/Getty Images*
> 
> *As military technology gets more sophisticated, a naval arms race in Asia will lead to military systems on hair-trigger alerts. The danger is that, as in World War II with Japan, China could one day calculate a military advantage to striking first with an array of air, sea, and rocket-delivered conventional weapons that could debilitate U.S. Navy vessels in the Pacific, as well as *other regional U.S. bases*. China is prepared to do so, at least in the South China Sea. According to Captain James Fanell (USN ret), former Director of Intelligence for U.S. Pacific Fleet, China has since 2015 adopted a man-to-man, rather than zonal, defense against U.S. Navy ships that traverse those international waters. China’s trend towards shadowing U.S. ships in the East China Sea is the same, according to Fanell, so we should assume that U.S. destroyers and cruisers there have been highly vulnerable over the past two years, and until at least 2021 when a subsonic U.S. ship-based ASCM will be fielded.*
> 
> *A Chinese conventional *first strike* against U.S. military forces in Asia is now technically plausible, and backed by China’s consistently preemptive *naval*, missile and cyber doctrines. This gives an incentive to the U.S. to itself strike first, especially if Chinese nuclear retaliation is calculated as unlikely. Such preemptive strikes, by either side, would lead to major power military conflict that would start with multiple nuclear powers, rather than end with one nuclear power as did World War II. It would be the most destructive war in world history, and so military technologies such as China’s 055 destroyer armed with YJ-18 ASCM that upset the balance of power in Asia are profoundly destabilizing and contrary to what one should expect from a status quo power. Such technologies are therefore ultimately counter to China’s broader commercial and security interests.
> According to Fanell, U.S. Navy warship anti-ship cruise missile programs are just now being developed. Fanell said, "And how long will [it be before] LRASM or SM-6 numbers reach the numbers the PRC already has with the YJ-18? We appear to be behind the power curve for what could be a rather long time just as the PRC begins to consolidate its territorial claims in the maritime domain of the South and East China Seas over the next decade." Fanell has long argued for increased U.S. naval spending.*
> 
> *China’s 055 destroyer is for the first time among Chinese surface combatants capable of land attack missions. Just as U.S. and Russian destroyers have attacked land targets in Syria, we will likely see the advent of a more territorially aggressive Chinese navy in the next decade. Last month, China’s state-run media, the Global Times, quoted military expert Song Zhongping as saying, "The 052D, a 7,000-ton-destroyer with 64 launch units, is designed for tasks including anti-aircraft, anti-submarine and anti-warship defense, while it does not and should not be required to have ground attack capability, which should be carried out by bigger destroyers, the coming 055." The 055 modular weapons system includes the capability to launch the *nuclear capable CJ-10* land-attack cruise missile.*
> 
> *The 055 is a *10,000-ton* destroyer, but under a full load it displaces *12,000 to 14,000* tons of water. It could as easily be classed as a cruiser. There are 3 more under construction, and 4 on order, for a total of 8 “Renhai” 055 destroyers. The 055 has stealth features and up to 128 Vertical Launch System (VLS) tubes for missiles capable of hitting air, land, and sea targets. The VLS can also launch anti-satellite and anti-ballistic missiles currently under development by China. The stern of the ship has a hangar to accommodate two Z-18 anti-submarine warfare helicopters and vertical-launch unmanned aerial vehicles. The sophisticated 055 bow-mounted and variable depth sonars and dual x- and s-band radar *systems* can see hostile air, surface, and underwater objects up to 600 km away, as well as track smaller nearby projectiles. The 055 fuses this data with other Chinese ship, air, and satellite sensors for a global view of the battlespace.*
> 
> *The 052 destroyers can also launch nuclear-capable missiles, and each has 64 VLS tubes. There are *4 operational 052-class destroyers*, and 8 more under construction. This makes 20 total 052 and 055 Chinese destroyers capable of blue water operations far from shore. The relative lack of Chinese rearmament ships will not heavily affect Chinese destroyer operations in the South and East China seas, on which China appears to be focusing its maritime territorial growth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Singapore Navy's RSS Independence sails past China's class 054 navy frigate Huangshan (R) and French navy vessel Frigate FS Prairial (C) during the inaugural maritime review along the strait near Changi Naval Base in Singapore on May 15, 2017. Twenty-eight foreign warships from 20 navies participated in the inaugural review, which is part of Singapore Navy's 50th anniversary celebration. Credit: ROSLAN RAHMAN/AFP/Getty Images*
> 
> *Another *25 smaller 056-class Chinese frigates* are operational, with 60 likely to be constructed in the coming years. These are also optimal for operations closer to China, for example in the South and East China Seas, or against Japan, South Korea, or Taiwan.*
> 
> *The 055 competes directly with the U.S. Navy’s Arleigh Burke class destroyers and Ticonderoga cruisers, which are the main delivery system for naval surface combatant firepower globally. The *Ticonderoga* class cruisers currently have 16 operational ships and 6 undergoing refurbishment at any given time.*
> 
> *There are *62* Arleigh Burke’s worldwide, and the U.S. Navy is building 14 more. They are smaller and carry less firepower than the 055’s. The Arleigh Burke destroyers displace 8,000 to 10,000 tons and have up to 96 VLS launch tubes each. That is a lot of potential firepower. But what debilitates the Arleigh Burke destroyers is their reliance on 8 Harpoon ASM tubes each, the range of which is limited to only 67 nautical miles compared with the YJ-18’s 290 nm range. Harpoon missiles *do not fit* into VLS tubes.*
> 
> *According to naval analysts, some of the U.S. destroyers in Asia do not even carry their full complement of Harpoon ASMs, and since *1999*, the Arleigh Burkes have not had any Harpoon launchers installed. Most U.S. destroyers, therefore, have only token anti-ship capabilities, making them vulnerable to a debilitating first strike in case of war. As Senior Fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments Bryan Clark noted in *testimony* to Congress in 2015,
> “So if I want to shoot another ship and I am a surface ship, I have to wait until I am within Harpoon range if I have Harpoons even onboard, which means I am probably half of the distance that he can reach me. So he can — I am well within his weapons envelope when I do that.”*
> 
> *Professor of Strategy James Holmes at the U.S. Naval War College has some harsh words for the lack of a long-range ASM capability on U.S. cruisers and destroyers.*
> 
> *“The originators of this mismatch were the service chiefs back in 1992, who in a directive called From the Sea declared that there was no one left to fight after the Cold War and thus that our navy should reinvent itself as a "fundamentally different" naval force, [i.e.], a force that didn't have to fight to control the sea, and thus could concentrate on noncombat missions. When you get a signal like that from top leadership, what do you do? You stop training and equipping to fight rival navies, and you stop upgrading your armaments. After that it was inertia. No one corrected the mistake, and no one really started trying until CNO Greenert.”*
> 
> *Admiral Jonathan Greenert served as Chief of Naval Operations from 2011 to 2015. Bryan McGrath, who commanded an Arleigh Burke class destroyer from 2004 to 2006, *told* Congress in 2015 that because of the lack of an effective anti-surface warfare (ASuW) capability on the surface fleet, it has to rely for defense on air and submarine-delivered capabilities.*
> 
> *That decision and decisions about how to allocate missions within the portfolio — surface, subsurface and aviation — has led to a situation in which ... the Navy looks at the surface force, as something that needs to be protected by the air wing. I think that needs to be questioned…. As part of the peace dividend and in recognition of the lack of a blue water threat, the Harpoon missile system was removed from the Flight IIA Arleigh Burke Destroyers as a corporate Navy decision was made to rely on the carrier air wing and the submarine force to perform the ASuW mission.”*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Republic of Korea destroyers Sejong the Great (DDG 991) and Yang Manchun (DDH 973), the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers USS Wayne E. Meyer (DDG 108), USS Michael Murphy (DDG 112) and USS Stethem (DDG 63), the Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruiser USS Lake Champlain (CG 57) and the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) patrol May 3, 2017 in the western Pacific Ocean. Credit: Z.A. Landers/U.S. Navy via Getty Images*
> 
> *Reliance on submarines and the carrier air wing limits the ability of surface combatants to execute missions individually, and entails risk from destruction of a single component in the system, effectively making the entire highly complex network as vulnerable as its weakest link. Fanell says, "We have this belief that Carrier air cover will always be there to protect our fleet and sink enemy ships … but what happens when a DF-21D or DF-26 sinks or seriously damages our aircraft carriers? Or when one of the PLAN Song, Yuan, or Shang submarines attacks our carriers with supersonic YJ-18 ASCMs … or PLAAF/PLANAF fighter bombers attack with air launched ASCMs? It seems to me that prudent military planning would take this into account and adjust our acquisition strategy accordingly … meaning the USN would have a surface fleet that could survive on its own by having the capability to fight other PLAN combatants mano-e-mano."*
> 
> *The U.S. Navy has made efforts at improving its ship-based ASuW capabilities. The SM-6 was recently converted for use as an ASM, but its range is only *250 nm* compared to the 290 nm range of China’s YJ-18. The Navy has not even fielded the ASM variant of the SM-6. According to Fanell, “the SM-6 ASM variant that was successfully tested in Hawaii last year ...may be fielded sooner than 2020 … but again, it is a piecemeal approach that is behind the timeline of PLAN production and fielding.”*
> 
> *The Next Generation Land Attack Weapon (*NGLAW*), which also has an anti-ship function, will not enter U.S. Navy service until 2028 or 2030. *Tomahawk* cruise missiles, with a range of 1,000 nm, are also undergoing modification for an ASCM capability, but are subsonic and therefore more easily targeted. They will not be fielded until 2021, and will likely go out of service in *2040*. Until then, and if China’s surface fleet has an anti-missile system capable of downing the slow Tomahawk, Navy destroyers and cruisers are uniquely vulnerable to China’s 052 and 055, armed with the long-range YJ-12 and YJ-18 ASMs. This vulnerability is a major mistake in naval planning that has led to the dangerous reliance of destroyers and cruisers on deterrence from aircraft carriers, submarines, and strategic escalation.*
> 
> *China’s new destroyer will fuel already-existing plans in the U.S. for increased naval spending, which will in turn lead to more naval spending in China. This is a costly arms race fueled by a security dilemma on the U.S. side, and territorial aggression on the Chinese side. China knows it has nothing to worry about in terms of U.S. initiating conflict were China a status quo power. But China is courting major power war through new military technologies that alter the status quo, at the same time as it initiates zero-sum territorial conflicts with multiple U.S. allies, including Japan in the East China Sea, the Philippines in the South China Sea, Taiwan (for its sovereignty), India in the Himalayas, and South Korea through China’s proxy North Korea.
> The ground attack capability of the 055 should be of especial concern to Taiwan, whose territory is already under threat by ground-based missiles across the strait in mainland China. Because of China’s military buildup and territorial aggression, even during President Obama’s 8 years of relative pacifism toward China, it appears that China does not seek to be a responsible member of the international system. It seeks regional hegemony, even at the expense of strong U.S. allies like Japan, South Korea, Australia, and the Philippines. It seeks increased global influence and power projection capabilities, including through a string of naval ports reaching to Africa, and blue water naval vessels such as the 055 destroyer.*
> 
> *According to Fanell, the 055 launch “should be another wake-up call for the USN. This is a formidable combatant...that again out-guns/out-sticks its rivals in the USN. Watch for this to be mass produced over the next 5 years [with] numbers approaching a dozen at least.” Professor James Holmes, Professor of Strategy at the Naval War College, has made a similar *argument* regarding China’s coming superiority in submarine deployments.*
> 
> *With the Chinese Navy gaining in absolute numbers of naval combatants over the U.S., Fanell said, “a 350 ship navy that cannot engage and sink other nation’s warships is not acceptable.” The current USN of *276 ships* is projected by President Trump to grow to 355. If achieved by 2035, 355 ships would cost $107 billion per year, every year, until 2047. According to Holmes, “We'll be lucky to break 300 ships by 2020, no matter what Congress does…. We have some old stuff we could recommission, but (unlike the Iowa class battleships in the 1980s) those ships already have an awful lot of mileage on the odometer.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Type 001A, China's second aircraft carrier, is seen during a launch ceremony at Dalian shipyard in Dalian, northeast China's Liaoning Province, April 26, 2017. China has launched its first domestically designed and built aircraft carrier, state media said on April 26, as the country seeks to transform its navy into a force capable of projecting power onto the high seas. Credit: STR/AFP/Getty Images*
> 
> *China has plans to reach *351 ships* by 2020, almost all of which will be concentrated in Asia. The U.S. will only devote about *60%*of its Navy to the Pacific. That gives China the advantage in an Asian naval contest in 2020, with 351 Chinese ships against about 180 U.S. ships. Holmes points out that,*
> 
> *“Absolute numbers aren't everything. The Soviet Navy outnumbered us throughout the Cold War and we got by. We were better on a ship-for-ship basis than they were. Still, numbers are important. Plus, this isn't just a fleet-on-fleet competition. We're talking about a fraction of the U.S. Navy matching up against the whole of the PLA Navy backed by the PLA Air Force and the PLA Rocket Force -- i.e., the PLA Navy backed up by a large arsenal of land-based planes, cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles. That's a lot of firepower to supplement the PLA Navy fleet. That could be China's great equalizer even if we remain stronger on the whole.”*
> 
> *The next four years are a critical period of vulnerability for the U.S. Navy. China will have a bigger and more concentrated surface fleet in Asia than will the U.S., and it will be better armed. It is no surprise that China, which cares little for international law or the status quo, is risk-acceptant, and subscribes to the principle that might makes right, is taking advantage of its regional naval superiority to take territory in the South and East China seas with impunity. It is no surprise that our allies have cold feet and are hedging towards China with economic and security agreements. It is an avoidable tragedy of our own making. We have watched since the early 1990s while China made great economic and military strides, often with our stolen technology. Yet we have not sanctioned it for its failure to make progress on international common values, such as democracy and human rights, that would make it a responsible international partner in terms of peace and stability.*
> 
> *Now we are paying the price, starting in the South and East China seas. According to Holmes, China’s regional strength “probably does help explain their confidence in the China seas.” If the U.S. cannot convince China to back away from its militarization and territorial revanchism in Asia, we will be forced into a dangerous and costly arms race, Cold War brinkmanship, or even conventional preemptive strike, to stop China’s expansion. The only other option will be conceding more territory and relative military power that will eventually lose us any vestiges of global moral, military, and economic leadership that remain after failing and debilitating wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and our general weakness against Russia and China’s territorial expansion. That will also lose us allies. It arguably already has.*
> 
> *China has given the U.S. a moment of truth. Will we take a stand, or continue our slide towards irrelevance? *The U.S. is not the only country that needs to wake up. China is taking catastrophic risk with its growing militarism.
> 
> *https://www.forbes.com/sites/anders...-missile-failure-and-preemption/#666f5107638f*



So Uncle Sam, having more than 10 super carriers, is worried about China's launch of a destroyer that he has at least 80 equivalent? Time to request more budget again?

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## Deino

onebyone said:


> ...
> *China has given the U.S. a moment of truth. Will we take a stand, or continue our slide towards irrelevance? *The U.S. is not the only country that needs to wake up. China is taking catastrophic risk with its growing militarism.



To admit I always only want to  !

The USA have the most capable military force anyone had on earth so far and they are even more expanding their military ... and now they rate anyone who tries to modernise or catch up in order to balance this more than one-sided dominance as a risk for peace on earth !

And it's embarrassing that they not even come to the idea who's the one who "is taking catastrophic risk with its growing militarism."

Deino



*


*

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## lcloo

It is another article highly flavoured with "China Threat".

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## F-22Raptor

onebyone said:


> *China's New Destroyer, The U.S. Navy's Anti-Ship Missile Failure, And Preemption*
> 
> *
> 
> *
> *Anders Corr *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China’s military development cooperation with Russia, and fielding of the 055 destroyer, will fuel already-existing incentives for conventional first strike options, political tension and an arms race with the U.S., Japan, South Korea, Australia, Indonesia, and India.
> 
> The U.S. is not the only country that needs to wake up. China is taking catastrophic risk with its growing militarism.
> 
> 
> 
> *China unveiled its *Type 055 naval destroyer* on June 28, the latest step in its decade and a half of military buildup. The new Chinese destroyer outcompetes U.S. destroyers and cruisers, highlighting a major failure in U.S. Navy planning that stretches back to the 1990s. Given the 055’s long-range supersonic *YJ-18* and *YJ-12*over the horizon (OTH) anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCMs), the Chinese destroyer currently outcompetes U.S. Arleigh Burke class destroyers and bigger Ticonderoga class cruisers. Both ships rely on fewer and shorter-range Harpoon anti-ship missiles (ASMs) and aircraft carriers that are themselves vulnerable to China’s ballistic missiles. The U.S. Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM), under development since *2009*, would right the balance, but not for years to come, and meanwhile we must assume China will continue improving its capabilities. Reaction times to the latest supersonic and hypersonic anti-ship weapons can be as short as *15-30 seconds*. The YJ-18 and YJ-12 are inspired by *Russian design*, and the threat environment is complicated by unconventional technologies such as Russian-made anti-ship missiles camouflaged as commercial shipping containers. The U.S. Standard Missile-6 (*SM-6*) ASCM variant, which may be deployed before 2020, has less range than its Chinese counterparts. *China’s military development cooperation with Russia, and fielding of the 055 destroyer, will fuel already-existing incentives for conventional first strike options, political tension and an arms race with the U.S., Japan, South Korea, Australia, Indonesia, and India.* The arms race and tensions will hurt each country’s economic growth and international trade, as well as increase the risk of military conflict.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese officers from the 24th Chinese navy are seen onboard a Harbin Type 052 destroyer, which arrived as part of the Chinese fleet at Shuwaikh Port in Kuwait City, on February 1, 2017. The visit is the first to Kuwait in 5 years, and comes after finishing a watch mission at the Gulf of Aden and the Somali waters. Credit: YASSER AL-ZAYYAT/AFP/Getty Images*
> 
> *As military technology gets more sophisticated, a naval arms race in Asia will lead to military systems on hair-trigger alerts. The danger is that, as in World War II with Japan, China could one day calculate a military advantage to striking first with an array of air, sea, and rocket-delivered conventional weapons that could debilitate U.S. Navy vessels in the Pacific, as well as *other regional U.S. bases*. China is prepared to do so, at least in the South China Sea. According to Captain James Fanell (USN ret), former Director of Intelligence for U.S. Pacific Fleet, China has since 2015 adopted a man-to-man, rather than zonal, defense against U.S. Navy ships that traverse those international waters. China’s trend towards shadowing U.S. ships in the East China Sea is the same, according to Fanell, so we should assume that U.S. destroyers and cruisers there have been highly vulnerable over the past two years, and until at least 2021 when a subsonic U.S. ship-based ASCM will be fielded.*
> 
> *A Chinese conventional *first strike* against U.S. military forces in Asia is now technically plausible, and backed by China’s consistently preemptive *naval*, missile and cyber doctrines. This gives an incentive to the U.S. to itself strike first, especially if Chinese nuclear retaliation is calculated as unlikely. Such preemptive strikes, by either side, would lead to major power military conflict that would start with multiple nuclear powers, rather than end with one nuclear power as did World War II. It would be the most destructive war in world history, and so military technologies such as China’s 055 destroyer armed with YJ-18 ASCM that upset the balance of power in Asia are profoundly destabilizing and contrary to what one should expect from a status quo power. Such technologies are therefore ultimately counter to China’s broader commercial and security interests.
> According to Fanell, U.S. Navy warship anti-ship cruise missile programs are just now being developed. Fanell said, "And how long will [it be before] LRASM or SM-6 numbers reach the numbers the PRC already has with the YJ-18? We appear to be behind the power curve for what could be a rather long time just as the PRC begins to consolidate its territorial claims in the maritime domain of the South and East China Seas over the next decade." Fanell has long argued for increased U.S. naval spending.*
> 
> *China’s 055 destroyer is for the first time among Chinese surface combatants capable of land attack missions. Just as U.S. and Russian destroyers have attacked land targets in Syria, we will likely see the advent of a more territorially aggressive Chinese navy in the next decade. Last month, China’s state-run media, the Global Times, quoted military expert Song Zhongping as saying, "The 052D, a 7,000-ton-destroyer with 64 launch units, is designed for tasks including anti-aircraft, anti-submarine and anti-warship defense, while it does not and should not be required to have ground attack capability, which should be carried out by bigger destroyers, the coming 055." The 055 modular weapons system includes the capability to launch the *nuclear capable CJ-10* land-attack cruise missile.*
> 
> *The 055 is a *10,000-ton* destroyer, but under a full load it displaces *12,000 to 14,000* tons of water. It could as easily be classed as a cruiser. There are 3 more under construction, and 4 on order, for a total of 8 “Renhai” 055 destroyers. The 055 has stealth features and up to 128 Vertical Launch System (VLS) tubes for missiles capable of hitting air, land, and sea targets. The VLS can also launch anti-satellite and anti-ballistic missiles currently under development by China. The stern of the ship has a hangar to accommodate two Z-18 anti-submarine warfare helicopters and vertical-launch unmanned aerial vehicles. The sophisticated 055 bow-mounted and variable depth sonars and dual x- and s-band radar *systems* can see hostile air, surface, and underwater objects up to 600 km away, as well as track smaller nearby projectiles. The 055 fuses this data with other Chinese ship, air, and satellite sensors for a global view of the battlespace.*
> 
> *The 052 destroyers can also launch nuclear-capable missiles, and each has 64 VLS tubes. There are *4 operational 052-class destroyers*, and 8 more under construction. This makes 20 total 052 and 055 Chinese destroyers capable of blue water operations far from shore. The relative lack of Chinese rearmament ships will not heavily affect Chinese destroyer operations in the South and East China seas, on which China appears to be focusing its maritime territorial growth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Singapore Navy's RSS Independence sails past China's class 054 navy frigate Huangshan (R) and French navy vessel Frigate FS Prairial (C) during the inaugural maritime review along the strait near Changi Naval Base in Singapore on May 15, 2017. Twenty-eight foreign warships from 20 navies participated in the inaugural review, which is part of Singapore Navy's 50th anniversary celebration. Credit: ROSLAN RAHMAN/AFP/Getty Images*
> 
> *Another *25 smaller 056-class Chinese frigates* are operational, with 60 likely to be constructed in the coming years. These are also optimal for operations closer to China, for example in the South and East China Seas, or against Japan, South Korea, or Taiwan.*
> 
> *The 055 competes directly with the U.S. Navy’s Arleigh Burke class destroyers and Ticonderoga cruisers, which are the main delivery system for naval surface combatant firepower globally. The *Ticonderoga* class cruisers currently have 16 operational ships and 6 undergoing refurbishment at any given time.*
> 
> *There are *62* Arleigh Burke’s worldwide, and the U.S. Navy is building 14 more. They are smaller and carry less firepower than the 055’s. The Arleigh Burke destroyers displace 8,000 to 10,000 tons and have up to 96 VLS launch tubes each. That is a lot of potential firepower. But what debilitates the Arleigh Burke destroyers is their reliance on 8 Harpoon ASM tubes each, the range of which is limited to only 67 nautical miles compared with the YJ-18’s 290 nm range. Harpoon missiles *do not fit* into VLS tubes.*
> 
> *According to naval analysts, some of the U.S. destroyers in Asia do not even carry their full complement of Harpoon ASMs, and since *1999*, the Arleigh Burkes have not had any Harpoon launchers installed. Most U.S. destroyers, therefore, have only token anti-ship capabilities, making them vulnerable to a debilitating first strike in case of war. As Senior Fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments Bryan Clark noted in *testimony* to Congress in 2015,
> “So if I want to shoot another ship and I am a surface ship, I have to wait until I am within Harpoon range if I have Harpoons even onboard, which means I am probably half of the distance that he can reach me. So he can — I am well within his weapons envelope when I do that.”*
> 
> *Professor of Strategy James Holmes at the U.S. Naval War College has some harsh words for the lack of a long-range ASM capability on U.S. cruisers and destroyers.*
> 
> *“The originators of this mismatch were the service chiefs back in 1992, who in a directive called From the Sea declared that there was no one left to fight after the Cold War and thus that our navy should reinvent itself as a "fundamentally different" naval force, [i.e.], a force that didn't have to fight to control the sea, and thus could concentrate on noncombat missions. When you get a signal like that from top leadership, what do you do? You stop training and equipping to fight rival navies, and you stop upgrading your armaments. After that it was inertia. No one corrected the mistake, and no one really started trying until CNO Greenert.”*
> 
> *Admiral Jonathan Greenert served as Chief of Naval Operations from 2011 to 2015. Bryan McGrath, who commanded an Arleigh Burke class destroyer from 2004 to 2006, *told* Congress in 2015 that because of the lack of an effective anti-surface warfare (ASuW) capability on the surface fleet, it has to rely for defense on air and submarine-delivered capabilities.*
> 
> *That decision and decisions about how to allocate missions within the portfolio — surface, subsurface and aviation — has led to a situation in which ... the Navy looks at the surface force, as something that needs to be protected by the air wing. I think that needs to be questioned…. As part of the peace dividend and in recognition of the lack of a blue water threat, the Harpoon missile system was removed from the Flight IIA Arleigh Burke Destroyers as a corporate Navy decision was made to rely on the carrier air wing and the submarine force to perform the ASuW mission.”*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Republic of Korea destroyers Sejong the Great (DDG 991) and Yang Manchun (DDH 973), the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers USS Wayne E. Meyer (DDG 108), USS Michael Murphy (DDG 112) and USS Stethem (DDG 63), the Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruiser USS Lake Champlain (CG 57) and the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) patrol May 3, 2017 in the western Pacific Ocean. Credit: Z.A. Landers/U.S. Navy via Getty Images*
> 
> *Reliance on submarines and the carrier air wing limits the ability of surface combatants to execute missions individually, and entails risk from destruction of a single component in the system, effectively making the entire highly complex network as vulnerable as its weakest link. Fanell says, "We have this belief that Carrier air cover will always be there to protect our fleet and sink enemy ships … but what happens when a DF-21D or DF-26 sinks or seriously damages our aircraft carriers? Or when one of the PLAN Song, Yuan, or Shang submarines attacks our carriers with supersonic YJ-18 ASCMs … or PLAAF/PLANAF fighter bombers attack with air launched ASCMs? It seems to me that prudent military planning would take this into account and adjust our acquisition strategy accordingly … meaning the USN would have a surface fleet that could survive on its own by having the capability to fight other PLAN combatants mano-e-mano."*
> 
> *The U.S. Navy has made efforts at improving its ship-based ASuW capabilities. The SM-6 was recently converted for use as an ASM, but its range is only *250 nm* compared to the 290 nm range of China’s YJ-18. The Navy has not even fielded the ASM variant of the SM-6. According to Fanell, “the SM-6 ASM variant that was successfully tested in Hawaii last year ...may be fielded sooner than 2020 … but again, it is a piecemeal approach that is behind the timeline of PLAN production and fielding.”*
> 
> *The Next Generation Land Attack Weapon (*NGLAW*), which also has an anti-ship function, will not enter U.S. Navy service until 2028 or 2030. *Tomahawk* cruise missiles, with a range of 1,000 nm, are also undergoing modification for an ASCM capability, but are subsonic and therefore more easily targeted. They will not be fielded until 2021, and will likely go out of service in *2040*. Until then, and if China’s surface fleet has an anti-missile system capable of downing the slow Tomahawk, Navy destroyers and cruisers are uniquely vulnerable to China’s 052 and 055, armed with the long-range YJ-12 and YJ-18 ASMs. This vulnerability is a major mistake in naval planning that has led to the dangerous reliance of destroyers and cruisers on deterrence from aircraft carriers, submarines, and strategic escalation.*
> 
> *China’s new destroyer will fuel already-existing plans in the U.S. for increased naval spending, which will in turn lead to more naval spending in China. This is a costly arms race fueled by a security dilemma on the U.S. side, and territorial aggression on the Chinese side. China knows it has nothing to worry about in terms of U.S. initiating conflict were China a status quo power. But China is courting major power war through new military technologies that alter the status quo, at the same time as it initiates zero-sum territorial conflicts with multiple U.S. allies, including Japan in the East China Sea, the Philippines in the South China Sea, Taiwan (for its sovereignty), India in the Himalayas, and South Korea through China’s proxy North Korea.
> The ground attack capability of the 055 should be of especial concern to Taiwan, whose territory is already under threat by ground-based missiles across the strait in mainland China. Because of China’s military buildup and territorial aggression, even during President Obama’s 8 years of relative pacifism toward China, it appears that China does not seek to be a responsible member of the international system. It seeks regional hegemony, even at the expense of strong U.S. allies like Japan, South Korea, Australia, and the Philippines. It seeks increased global influence and power projection capabilities, including through a string of naval ports reaching to Africa, and blue water naval vessels such as the 055 destroyer.*
> 
> *According to Fanell, the 055 launch “should be another wake-up call for the USN. This is a formidable combatant...that again out-guns/out-sticks its rivals in the USN. Watch for this to be mass produced over the next 5 years [with] numbers approaching a dozen at least.” Professor James Holmes, Professor of Strategy at the Naval War College, has made a similar *argument* regarding China’s coming superiority in submarine deployments.*
> 
> *With the Chinese Navy gaining in absolute numbers of naval combatants over the U.S., Fanell said, “a 350 ship navy that cannot engage and sink other nation’s warships is not acceptable.” The current USN of *276 ships* is projected by President Trump to grow to 355. If achieved by 2035, 355 ships would cost $107 billion per year, every year, until 2047. According to Holmes, “We'll be lucky to break 300 ships by 2020, no matter what Congress does…. We have some old stuff we could recommission, but (unlike the Iowa class battleships in the 1980s) those ships already have an awful lot of mileage on the odometer.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Type 001A, China's second aircraft carrier, is seen during a launch ceremony at Dalian shipyard in Dalian, northeast China's Liaoning Province, April 26, 2017. China has launched its first domestically designed and built aircraft carrier, state media said on April 26, as the country seeks to transform its navy into a force capable of projecting power onto the high seas. Credit: STR/AFP/Getty Images*
> 
> *China has plans to reach *351 ships* by 2020, almost all of which will be concentrated in Asia. The U.S. will only devote about *60%*of its Navy to the Pacific. That gives China the advantage in an Asian naval contest in 2020, with 351 Chinese ships against about 180 U.S. ships. Holmes points out that,*
> 
> *“Absolute numbers aren't everything. The Soviet Navy outnumbered us throughout the Cold War and we got by. We were better on a ship-for-ship basis than they were. Still, numbers are important. Plus, this isn't just a fleet-on-fleet competition. We're talking about a fraction of the U.S. Navy matching up against the whole of the PLA Navy backed by the PLA Air Force and the PLA Rocket Force -- i.e., the PLA Navy backed up by a large arsenal of land-based planes, cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles. That's a lot of firepower to supplement the PLA Navy fleet. That could be China's great equalizer even if we remain stronger on the whole.”*
> 
> *The next four years are a critical period of vulnerability for the U.S. Navy. China will have a bigger and more concentrated surface fleet in Asia than will the U.S., and it will be better armed. It is no surprise that China, which cares little for international law or the status quo, is risk-acceptant, and subscribes to the principle that might makes right, is taking advantage of its regional naval superiority to take territory in the South and East China seas with impunity. It is no surprise that our allies have cold feet and are hedging towards China with economic and security agreements. It is an avoidable tragedy of our own making. We have watched since the early 1990s while China made great economic and military strides, often with our stolen technology. Yet we have not sanctioned it for its failure to make progress on international common values, such as democracy and human rights, that would make it a responsible international partner in terms of peace and stability.*
> 
> *Now we are paying the price, starting in the South and East China seas. According to Holmes, China’s regional strength “probably does help explain their confidence in the China seas.” If the U.S. cannot convince China to back away from its militarization and territorial revanchism in Asia, we will be forced into a dangerous and costly arms race, Cold War brinkmanship, or even conventional preemptive strike, to stop China’s expansion. The only other option will be conceding more territory and relative military power that will eventually lose us any vestiges of global moral, military, and economic leadership that remain after failing and debilitating wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and our general weakness against Russia and China’s territorial expansion. That will also lose us allies. It arguably already has.*
> 
> *China has given the U.S. a moment of truth. Will we take a stand, or continue our slide towards irrelevance? *The U.S. is not the only country that needs to wake up. China is taking catastrophic risk with its growing militarism.
> 
> *https://www.forbes.com/sites/anders...-missile-failure-and-preemption/#666f5107638f*



The SM-6 anti ship variant is already forward deployed, and LRASM is set to be deployed aboard B-1's next year.
In the next several years antiship Tomahawks and ATACMS will be deployed, along with extended range JSOWS and Harpoons. The US military is rapidly expanding its antiship capabilities.

The US military operates in the Western Pacific on a daily basis. Clearly they are terrified of the Chinese.


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## english_man

Now that we have the first 055 launched, do members here think we could also see the second 055 also launched by the end of the year.........as going by the photos we have seen, the build of the second 055 looks fairly advanced, with the hull intact, but now just needing the superstruture?

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## F-22Raptor

Deino said:


> To admit I always only want to  !
> 
> The USA have the most capable military force anyone had on earth so far and they are even more expanding their military ... and now they rate anyone who tries to modernise or catch up in order to balance this more than one-sided dominance as a risk for peace on earth !
> 
> And it's embarrassing that they not even come to the idea who's the one who "is taking catastrophic risk with its growing militarism."
> 
> Deino
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *



Military parity is unacceptable to US forces. The US military has operated under an "overwhelming superiority" doctrine for some time now. We have no interest in operating in a WW2 environment ever again.


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## Deino

F-22Raptor said:


> Military parity is unacceptable to US forces. The US military has operated under an "overwhelming superiority" doctrine for some time now. We have no interest in operating in a WW2 environment ever again.




I understand that from the point of view of the US, but they must at least admit, that their military might is seen as a threat from other countries and in the same way the US want "overwhelming superiority" other demand - and IMO not unjustified - at least a more balanced equality.

So who then is the military risk for others !?

Deino

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## Arthur

Deino said:


> To admit I always only want to  !
> 
> The USA have the most capable military force anyone had on earth so far and they are even more expanding their military ... and now they rate anyone who tries to modernise or catch up in order to balance this more than one-sided dominance as a risk for peace on earth !
> 
> And it's embarrassing that they not even come to the idea who's the one who "is taking catastrophic risk with its growing militarism."
> 
> Deino


What can we say, they are "exceptional" .... (more like delusional )after all...


Deino said:


> I understand that from the point of view of the US, but they must at least admit, that their military might is seen as a threat from other countries and in the same way the US want "overwhelming superiority" other demand - and IMO not unjustified - at least a more balanced equality.
> 
> So who then is the military risk for others !?
> 
> Deino



Now.... now my friend, looks like you need some freedom up there.... 

....

Anyway the launching of Type 55 Destroyer is really an amazing news. Congratulations to our Chinese friends.

Looking forward to the launch of second ship by end of this year (hopefully).

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## terranMarine

english_man said:


> Now that we have the first 055 launched, do members here think we could also see the second 055 also launched by the end of the year.........as going by the photos we have seen, the build of the second 055 looks fairly advanced, with the hull intact, but now just needing the superstruture?



Since 3 055 are being constructed simultaneously right now and judging from the photos it's reasonable to assume we will be seeing a total of 4 055 completed within couple of months (whether it's by the end of this year or early next year). Look forward for more photos

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## ChineseTiger1986

grey boy 2 said:


> Russian media: estimating the VLS of 055 ="128" 《今日关注》引用俄媒说法："128" VLS。



I think the big shrimps from CD were getting wrong this time.

It pretty confirms that the Type 055 got 128 VLS cells with a full displacement of 14,000 tonnes.

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## grey boy 2

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think the big shrimps from CD were getting wrong this time.
> 
> It pretty confirms that the Type 055 got 128 VLS cells with a full displacement of 14,000 tonnes.


Thats what i've in mind as well but you know the bashing from those naysayers is hard to take....

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## ChineseTiger1986

grey boy 2 said:


> Thats what i've in mind as well but you know the bashing from those naysayers is hard to take....



Some big shrimps like POP3 got really high authority, and his words are pretty like the bible for many Chinese military fans, but this time I am afraid that he is going to lose his bet against Professor Ma.

The Type 002 got delayed because of the re-designation with the EMALS and AAG.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

I'm wondering if the 055 DDG will be equipped with two Z-20 Helicopters or Z-8 type?

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## azesus

防空舰分级系统 


通过总结 MD 海军多年来的水面战舰设计实践，大致可以认为区域防空舰吨位每减少 30%，则性能下降一级 (70% 定律?防空舰分级系统 - puffinus - 剪水鹱的博客)，据此可将防空战舰按照吨位，传感器-武器系统配置，以及被动防护能力划为 5 级:

1. 满载排水量 25000 吨级 (注意量级不代表精确排水量，传感器-武器组合确定前提下，具体设计根据动力-传动系统配置的差异，实际吨位会在 “理想化” 的量级附近浮动)，代表型号为 MD 曾计划建造的 CG(X) 大型防空反导巡洋舰，其 IPS (Integrated Propulsion System) 版吨位预计在 23900 吨 (常规动力) 至 26600 吨 (核动力，1 台航母级大型反应堆) 之间。该舰可在搭载大批常规尺寸垂直发射管的同时携带数十枚 KEI (Kinetic Energy Interceptor) 级别的重型武器，能够支持全尺寸 (S 波段天线孔径 6.7 米) 版 AMDR (Air and Missile Defense Radar) 双波段对空防御雷达的未来升级型号 (需要比基本型更高的电气功率和冷却容量)，并且具备强韧的抗战损能力。雷达持续开机工作时，该舰电子及环境控制系统消耗的功率高达 31 兆瓦 (若留 20% 余量，则雷达系统升级后电气功率需求为 37 兆瓦)，以 20 节速度巡航时消耗的推进功率则不超过 20 兆瓦。原油价格超过每桶 75 美元后，该舰核动力版的全寿命成本 (假定维持与现役 CG-47 型类似的使用强度和平均航速) 即已低于常规动力版。该级别的防空舰迄今为止仍停留在 “纸老虎” 阶段。


2. 满载排水量 17500 吨级，代表型号包括


I. CGN-9 “长滩” 号核动力导弹巡洋舰

II. Typhon CGN 核动力导弹巡洋舰 (无图)

III. CSGN “宙斯盾” 核动力打击巡洋舰

IV. 基于 DDG-1000 平台的 “护航巡洋舰” Escort Cruiser (无图)

该级别防空舰可在保证常规尺寸发射管数量的同时携带个位数的 KEI，能够支持全尺寸版 Typhon/AMDR 防空雷达 (但升级余地极其有限)，搭载 256 个常规尺寸的垂直发射管 (放弃 KEI 和/或重型火炮系统)，抗战损能力虽不如 1 级防空舰，仍远非更小型的平台所能比拟。围绕防空任务设计并配备 “宙斯盾” 系统时，该级舰可沿中轴线安装 3 套 Mk 26 Mod 2 导弹发射系统和 6 具导弹控制雷达 (24 个火力通道)。CGN-9 “长滩” 是唯一建成服役的 2 级防空舰。


3. 满载排水量 12000 吨级，代表型号为胎死腹中的 Typhon DLGN 和盾舰版 “弗吉尼亚” 级，可搭载降配版 Typhon，阉割版 AMDR (S 波段天线孔径 4.3 米)，或完全版 “宙斯盾”，2 套 Mk 26 Mod 2 导弹发射系统 (备弹 128 枚) 或 160 个常规尺寸垂直发射管，沿轴线安装 4 具导弹控制雷达 (盾舰)，携带 2 架 10 吨级直升机。CG-47 本应达到该级标准 (因采用常规动力且武器数量有所减少，满载排水量可下降至 11000 吨级)，但因采用 DD-963 “斯普鲁恩斯” 级基本平台以节省设计全新舰型的开支，满载排水量被限制在 10000 吨以内，空间极度紧张，导弹控制雷达未能全部实现阶梯式纵列安装，方向覆盖不尽理想。设想中的 DDG-51 Flight III (勉强) 属于 3 级防空舰。


CGN-42 盾舰版 “弗吉尼亚” 级

由于舰体长度不足，CG-47 “提康德罗加” 级的 4 具导弹控制雷达未能全部实现阶梯式纵列安装。

CGN-38 “弗吉尼亚” 级就吨位而言属于 3 级防空舰，但受到技术，预算等多方面条件的制约，平台潜力未能得到充分挖掘


4. 满载排水量 8400 吨级，代表型号为 DDG-51 “伯克” 级，可携带驱逐舰版 “宙斯盾” 系统，3 具纵列安装的导弹控制雷达，96 个常规尺寸垂直发射管。机库属于 volume-critical 设施，体型虽胖，重量甚轻。增大燃油储备以获得 CG-47 等级的续航力 (6000 海里/20 节) 是导致 MD 海军 DDG-51 改进型号 “增肥” 至 9000+ 吨的主要因素。


5. 满载排水量 6000 吨级，可支持阉割版驱逐舰型 “宙斯盾”，2 具导弹控制雷达 (盾舰)，携带 48 个常规尺寸垂直发射管，代表型号包括斗牛国 F100 型导弹护卫舰，TG 海军 052C 系列，欧洲 “地平线” 型防空护卫舰，日已落帝国 45 型防空驱逐舰，雄鸡国 DCNS 设想中的 FREMM-ER，汉斯 F124 型护卫舰，风车国 “七省” 级护卫舰等。注意 6000 吨和 48 个垂直发射管是参考基准而非确定数值，由于成本，舒适性要求，战斗力，适航性，自持力指标等方面的差异，具体设计的吨位可低至 6000 吨之下 (F124) 或高达 7000 吨以上 (45 型)，垂直发射管数量变化范围则在 32-64 个之间 (TG 最新的 052C+ 配备 64 个垂直发射管，日已落帝国 45 型有升级至 64 个发射管的潜力)。


上述 5 级防空舰中，1 属于超豪华型，除非 TG 与 MD 展开全面军事对抗，否则恐怕难见天日；2 为豪华型，其存在同样有赖于 TG 与 MD 安全关系的恶化；3 为全球型海军主力防空舰的底限；4 对于全球型海军而言属于 “经济版” 防空舰；5 乃区域防空舰的入门级产品。CG-47 属于缩水版的 3 级防空舰 (3.5?防空舰分级系统 - puffinus - 剪水鹱的博客)，052C+ 和 45 型则可被看作增强版的 5 级防空舰 (4.5?防空舰分级系统 - puffinus - 剪水鹱的博客)。如果悲催的 DDG-51 III 被砍，MD 或许会捣腾出来个常规动力版 2.5 级防空舰? 


AMDR-S 

S 波段防空反导雷达 AMDR (Air & Missile Defense Radar)/AMDR-S 是 MD 新一代防空舰远程对空探测能力的核心。迄今为止 MD 海军共考虑过 3 个版本的 AMDR-S 方案 (实际上不止，因为 AMDR 可以随意改变尺寸，但这 3 个版本分别对应 4 级防空舰，3 级防空舰/未大幅度改进的 DDG-1000，以及曾经设想过的未来巡洋舰，因此是最值得讨论的方案)，即:
1) SPY + 11
2) SPY + 15
3) SPY + 30 (SPY + 40 也曾被短暂地 YY 过)

SPY + 11 使用与现役羊皮盾系统 AN/SPY-1A/B/D 雷达尺寸相当的 12 英尺/3.7 米孔径 AESA 天线，系统信噪比 (S/N ratio, signal/noise ratio) 较之于 AN/SPY-1D(V) 增加 11 分贝。SPY + 15 使用 14 英尺/4.3 米孔径天线，信噪比提升 15 分贝。SPY + 30 使用 22 英尺/6.7 米孔径天线，信噪比改善 30 分贝。SPY + 11 是 4 级防空舰支持能力的极限；SPY + 15 适用于 3 级防空舰和 DDG-1000 (2.5 级吨位，但围绕对陆火力支援而非防空任务设计)，据 MD 海军宣称能塞进 DDG-51 Flight III，个人对此持保留意见。SPY + 30 需要 2 级防空舰平台 (DDG-1000 衍生版可支持 SPY + 25)，如果考虑到后续升级，1 级防空舰平台更为理想。雷达系统信噪比取决于发射功率 (T/R 模块相同时与雷达天线面积/模块数量成正比)，波束聚焦能力 (波长相同时波束角与天线孔径成反比，信号能量密度与波束角的平方成反比)，系统内部噪声 (冷却系统越强悍，系统自噪声越小)，因此要想提高全系统的信噪比，就必须尽可能增大天线尺寸及提高对天线模块的冷却能力。

AN/SPY-1D(V) 雷达在低威胁环境 (自然背景噪声，基本不遭到敌方的蓄意干扰) 中对雷达反射截面 0.0025 平方米级目标的追踪半径为 90+ 海里级。F-22/J-20 前向 X 波段雷达反射面积为 - 40 分贝/0.0001 平方米级，F-35 前向 X 波段雷达反射面积为 - 27 分贝/0.002 平方米级，按照 S 波段 RCS 比 X 波段升高半个数量级/5 分贝计算 (悲观估计 F-22/J-20，乐观估计 F-35)，F-22/J-20 的前向 S 波段雷达反射面积为 -35 分贝/0.0003 平方米级，F-35 为 - 22 分贝/0.006 平方米级，遭到 AN/SPY-1D(V) 有效追踪的距离分别是 53 海里 (F-22/J-20) 和 113 海里 (F-35)。TG 的 052C 系列 5/4.5 级防空舰的核心对空雷达发射功率不及 AN/SPY-1D，但自噪声较低，天线孔径则与羊皮盾雷达相近，对低信号特征目标的探测能力当与 “宙斯盾” 系统半斤八两。从以上计算可以看出，面对盾舰时，F-22 和 J-20 能穿透至滑翔武器射程之内，F-35 则须携带专业反舰导弹方可生存，“经济版” 隐形尚未服役即已过时。

以上述计算为基础，可以得出 SPY + 11，+ 15，+ 30 三个型号对抗 F-22/J-20 和 F-35 时的性能数据
SPY + 11: 对 F-22/J-20 追踪半径为 100 海里，对 F-35 追踪半径为 213 海里 (也就是说，巡航高度的 F-35 一旦跃出水天线即无所遁形)
SPY + 15: 对 F-22/J-20 追踪半径为 126 海里，对 F-35 追踪半径为 268 海里
SPY + 30: 对 F-22/J-20 追踪半径为 298 海里，对 F-35 追踪半径为 635 海里 (超巡高度的水天线约在 250 海里之外，面对 SPY + 30 的 AMDR-S，重四水平的雷达隐形基本失效)

考虑到 F-22/J-20 隐形涂料的后续升级和实战条件下的电子对抗支持，假定 AMDR-S 雷达实战条件下信噪比恶化一个数量级 (10 分贝)，则 SPY + 11: 对 F-22/J-20 追踪半径为 56 海里，对 F-35 为 120 海里
SPY + 15: 对 F-22/J-20 追踪半径为 71 海里，对 F-35 为 151 海里
SPY + 30: 对 F-22/J-20 追踪半径为 168 海里，对 F-35 为 357 海里

以上假定 F-35 的 S 波段隐形升级潜力与 F-22/J-20 相当 (乐观估计)，实际上 F-35 被烧穿的距离将更高，而考虑到大气背景噪声因素后，信号水平 (- 40 分贝级) 较为接近背景噪声 (- 55 分贝级) 的 F-22/J-20 遭到防空舰有效追踪的距离将比以上计算值有所降低。如果去零取整，假定拟配备于 DDG-51 III 的 SPY + 15 版 AMDR-S 实战条件下能在 70 海里距离上建立对 J-20/F-22 的追踪轨迹，则 MD 海军认为 SPY + 15 的性能 marginally adequate (勉强合格) 便不难理解，因为此时高速突防的 F-22/J-20 已可投放高滑翔比武器 (每波攻击上百枚滑翔炸弹淹过来，就算防空舰拦截体系滴水不漏，反复交战数轮之后舰空导弹储备也将耗尽)。当然 MD 海军目前主要考虑的是 AMDR-S 对弹道导弹目标的远距追踪能力，而非对抗在西方看来 “纸老虎” 一只的 J-20。如果假定典型弹道导弹的 S 波段雷达反射截面积为 - 10 分贝/0.1 平方米，则 AN/SPY-1D(V)，SPY + 11，SPY + 15，SPY + 30 对其实现追踪的距离分别是 226 海里，426 海里，537 海里，1273 海里 (未遭敌方干扰条件下)。显然，SPY + 30 级别的 AMDR-S 才能有效地支持 KEI 级别的远程反导拦截武器 (如果全力执行反导任务，追踪半径将比上述数值高出几十个百分点，但此时的防空舰完全无法对抗大气层内的目标，因此发动 “组合式” 攻击时，寥寥数枚低雷达信号特征反舰弹道导弹便能大幅度降低航母编队的海基对空防御能力)。

SPY + 30 足以击败 F-22/J-20 级别的对手，且通过增大发射功率 (换装新一代 T/R 模块)，降低系统自噪声 (除了 T/R 模块技术升级外，主要依赖防空舰充足的冷却余量)，增强信号处理能力，性能尚有可观的提升空间，面对重六依然毫不畏惧。而预计于 2023 年实现 IOC 的 SPY + 15 版 AMDR-S，服役之初便仅是 marginally adequate，待 2030+ 年重六服役之后处境将异常尴尬 (如果 TG 与 MD 安全关系良好，防空舰不必对抗重六等级目标，则配备 SPY + 15 雷达的 3 级平台倒也够用，杀掉 F-35 那是绰绰有余)。

在微电子技术突飞猛进的同时，高端武器平台的体型却不断增大，这一悖论令许多军迷十分困惑 (想想当年的大哥大，瞧瞧如今的水果机，这...AMDR-S - puffinus - 剪水鹱的博客)。其实道理很简单，武器系统面对的威胁从未停滞不前，而是随着技术的进步而水涨船高。假若空中目标没有实现隐形化，则羊皮盾雷达的探测性能 (- 10 分贝级 226 海里，0 分贝级约 400 海里) 已绰绰有余 (常规战术飞机挂弹状态雷达反射截面积均在 0 分贝以上，巡航高度水天线距离 200-250 海里，只要从水天线下冒出来必然遭到羊皮盾系统追踪，羊皮盾是围绕对抗信号特征显著低于常规航空器的反舰导弹设计的，足以轻易击败 F/A-18E/F 之类所谓 “准隐形” 目标，文字游戏在物理法则的面前是那么地苍白无力...)。然而现实是残酷的，拥有强大工业体系和科技实力的国家，绝不会心甘情愿地让潜在对手拥有军事技术领域的显著优势，矛与盾螺旋形上升的对抗从人类捡起第一根木棒即已开始，至今从未休止。正如红桃皇后对爱丽丝说的一样，只有全力奔跑，才能留在原地

TG防空舰发展路线图 

1. 时间表
排除可看作 054A 舰空导弹系统测试平台的 2 艘 052B (相同的主对空传感器，相同的导弹控制雷达，导弹本体/airframe 不同但采用相同的毛熊制导系统)，作为浮动 S-300 导弹营的 2 艘 051C，以及独苗一根的测试舰 051B 这三大干扰项之后，TG 近 20 年来国产导弹驱逐舰的发展节奏便清晰地呈现出来:

052 型首舰 DDG-112 “哈尔滨” 号于 1994 年服役。

TG防空舰发展路线图 - puffinus - 剪水鹱的博客

052C 型首舰 DDG-170 “兰州” 于 2004 年服役。

052C+/D 首舰 DDG-172 “昆明” 2012 年 8 月底下水，估计将于 2014 年服役。


显然，TG 燃气轮机动力导弹驱逐舰存在稳定的 10 年升级周期。考虑到收集消化使用数据和建造新一代平台所需的时间，这个速度已经颇为 impressive。预想中的未来大型导弹驱逐舰将采用与 052C 系列完全不同的全新平台 (可能达到 3 级防空舰标准，下面会详细论述)，即便传感器-武器系统只是 052C+ 的升级版 (052C+ 的也 “只” 是 052C 的升级版)，仍没有理由相信 TG 驱逐舰的技术更新周期会突然大幅度缩短。根据 TG 海军一贯的稳健作风来看，也不存在 052C+ 武器系统尚未开始海上测试之际，便急不可耐地开工建造下一代大型导弹驱逐舰之可能。TG 舰载战术航空兵刚出 “娘胎”，距离实战部署还十分遥远，而在 TG 近邻海域执行作战任务，052C 和 052C+ 已足堪重任，TG 海军没有必要心急火燎地打造为航母战斗群配套的大型防空驱逐舰。如果维持 10 年更新周期，TG 新一代驱逐舰的首舰将于 2024 年服役，只比 MD 计划中的 DDG-51 Flight III 的 IOC 晚一年而已。


2. 配置
相当于 5 级防空舰的 052C 和 4.5 级防空舰的 052C+ 已能有效压制 F-35 “闪电” II，单纯建造 052C+ 的放大版除了增加弹药基数之外意义不大，而以 TG 的技术，基于 4 级或 3.5 级平台的防空驱逐舰在可预见的时间跨度内 (未来 10-15 年) 不可能具备击败 F-22 档次对手的能力 (MD 的 DDG-51 III 大致可以看作 3.5 级防空舰，最好情况下面对 F-22/J-20 时也只是 marginally adequate)，因此 TG 新一代防空舰应基于 3 级平台，并配备 SPY + 20 级别的 S 波段 AESA 雷达 (2.5 级的 DDG-1000 衍生型可支持 SPY + 25，3.5 级的 DDG-51 III 携带 SPY + 15，吨位介于二者之间的 3 级平台当可运作 SPY + 20)。鉴于 TG 的子系统技术仍将落后于 MD，要获取较 DDG-51 III 高出 5 分贝的信噪比，就必须使用比 SPY + 15 更大的 AESA 天线。若 TG 未来 3 级防空舰 S 波段雷达孔径达到 5.6 米，则子系统技术相当的条件下，其系统信噪比将有 7 分贝的优势，达到 SPY + 22，假定冷却系统效能相同，则 T/R 模块性能只需达到 MD 产品的 63%，即可实现 SPY + 20 的设计指标。SPY + 20 雷达实战条件下 (参照 AMDR-S 中的设定，S/N - 10 分贝) 可在 106 海里距离上实现对 F-22/J-20 的有效追踪，将其阻截在滑翔武器射程之外。

052C+ 的主对空传感器大致可定义为孔径 4 米的 SPY + 0 类型，TG 未来 3 级防空舰单纯依靠放大雷达孔径即可将 S/N 增加近 9 分贝，剩余的 11 分贝性能提升则来自 T/R 模块，冷却系统，信号处理等方面的进步 (如果雷达孔径不变，则 20 分贝的 S/N 收益必须完全来自各子系统性能的改善，技术风险和压力陡然增加)。延续这个思路，为对抗重六级别目标而研制的 SPY + 40 雷达应进一步将天线孔径增加到 8 米 (贡献 9+ 分贝的额外 S/N)，从而需要 1 级防空舰平台。

4 英尺/1.2 米 (宽) x 6 英尺/1.8 米 (高) 的 AMDR-X 使用现役战斗机雷达 T/R 模块已能在 30 海里半径上烧穿 F-22 的前向雷达隐形屏障，足以击败任何隐形掠海反舰导弹。考虑到 TG 在 T/R 模块技术方面的差距，不妨将 AMDR-X 的三面阵列改为四面阵列，阵列尺度可基本维持不变。 


3. 平台
为了保证 5.6 米孔径 TG 版 AMDR-S 所需冷却容量 (由吨位决定) 和平台稳定性 (由舰体宽度决定，从而影响平台吨位)，降低生产成本，以及提供收纳无人潜航器/快艇的空间，假想中的 TG 未来 3 级防空舰满载排水量可适当高于 12000 吨的基准值 (配置一定时，平台造价由建造工时决定，较为宽松的 “低密度” 设计有利于快速施工，生产成本可低于吨位更小的 “高密度” 平台，钢材的价格对于高度复杂的战斗舰艇而言根本不算什么)。参考 MD 海军的研究，不妨将该舰水线宽度设定为 20 米，如此即可 1) 在采用全钢上层建筑并携带 5.6 米孔径 AMDR-S 的同时维持起码的横向稳定性 (要支持 4.3 米孔径的 SPY + 15 型 AMDR-S，DDG-51 III 的上层建筑须改为铝合金或复合材料构造，否则 CG-47 头重脚轻的难堪局面又将重现)；2) 提供安装核动力系统 (重心较高) 所需的稳定性余量。假定水线长宽比 9:1 (兼顾高速性能和横向稳定性，且较为适合海浪波长较大的太平洋环境)，则该舰水线长约 180 米，与 DDG-1000 接近，波障航速为 32.6 节，满载排水量大致是 052C/C+ 的 2 倍。考虑到核动力系统的研制周期，假定 2024 年服役的该级防空舰没有采用核动力推进的可能 (核动力战舰携带的液体较少，无法依靠调节燃油及淡水配重来修正重心位置的移动，对动力系统的重量参数异常敏感，必须在反应堆模块方案冻结后方可进行设计)，仍将继续使用以燃气轮机为核心原动机的动力系统。TG 在综合电推进技术方面的积累较为有限，未来的 3 级防空舰在最初批次阶段未必能够采用全电推进方案，但存在混合电推进 (巡航速度电传动，冲刺速度机械传动) 的可能。DDG-1000 的穿浪体设计是为了最大限度提高平台稳定性，符合其对陆炮火支援平台的身份，并非专业防空舰平台设计的合理模板 (船舷内倾造成甲板宽度减小，上层建筑宽度相应下降，不利于布置大尺寸雷达阵列)，TG 未来 3 级防空舰仍应采用舰舷外张的常规设计。


4. 大驱之后 
如果
a) 维持 10 年技术更新周期
b) 假定核动力系统立项 - 核动力水面战舰服役时间跨度为 20 年
c) 假定 20 年内重型电磁炮实用化 (这玩意才是驱动平台设计的重要因素，充其量兆瓦级的战术激光武器对大型水面战舰的吨位和电气功率消耗基本没有影响，而假定抛射体重量为 50 千克 - 比典型 155 毫米炮弹还略轻，初速 2000 米/秒，战斗射速每 5 秒 1 枚，能量转换效率 100%，则电磁炮武器系统的电气功率消耗即高达 20 兆瓦)
d) TG 与 MD 军事技术竞争激化

则采用 1 级防空舰平台的 TG 大型核动力导弹巡洋舰 (吨位大约是前述 3 级防空舰的 2 倍，052C/C+ 的 4 倍) 将于 2034 年服役 (YY 版基本参数: 8 米孔径 SPY + 40 雷达，2 座重型电磁炮，32 枚 KEI，160 个常规尺寸垂直发射管)

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## Stuttgart001

F-22Raptor said:


> The US House and Senate just proposed near $700 billion 2018 defense budgets, with around $630-640 billion as the base budget, with the rest going toward the fight against ISIS. Now, the final numbers are yet to be determined, but resources are not the problem. Those programs I listed are getting millions/billions in funding.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's not American technology. You keep telling yourself that pal.


You did not get my point. Resources do not just equal money with invested into the programs directly.
The main factor of developing science and technology is human intelligence. The success of US based on its wonderful environment which attracts lots of foreign immigrants including most intelligent people from all over the world. It is an advantage which god gives to America.
But pls do not abuse the gift god presented.
Look back the recent years. How many dollars have been spent on the most sophisticated weapons which turned lots of towns into ashes and killed millions of people and pushed thousands of thousands of muslims into Jihads.
The president of US is busy selling killing machines, meanwhile China's present invites the Eurasian nations to rebuild the Silk Road .
US keeps producing refugees and China invests resources to rebuild these refugee's hometown.
More and more budget of US are used to send army to bomb and attack pour nations thousands miles way from American continent, while more and more budget of China are spent on developing all technique which could make the world much better and cleaner and healthier.
You could see what happened recently.
Pull out climate accord and push forward the production and export of fossil energy .
If US lose its foundations cornerstone its attraction to foreign people, how could US develop itself like what it has done since found.
By the by, there are 9 million muslins living in US.
Do you think how many of them will turn radical ,if US keeps bombing Muslim Nations ?
ISIS is the creature of US war policy. How many other radical organizations is US prepared to take care of?

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## cnleio



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## Deino



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## 帅的一匹

cnleio said:


> View attachment 408459


What is that for?


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## waja2000

F-22Raptor said:


> The SM-6 anti ship variant is already forward deployed, and LRASM is set to be deployed aboard B-1's next year.
> In the next several years antiship Tomahawks and ATACMS will be deployed, along with extended range JSOWS and Harpoons. The US military is rapidly expanding its antiship capabilities.
> The US military operates in the Western Pacific on a daily basis. Clearly they are terrified of the Chinese.



If not wrong, SM-6 Anti-Ship variant RIM-174A modify from SM-6 standard, but main issue is Warhead too small (64kg) to attack Frigate/Destroyer, it main target on small patrol boat or Corvette. as comparisons, small NSM Anti-ship missile have 120kg warhead and Exocet Block III have 180kg Warhead. YJ-18 and Klub have much bigger warhead. NSM install in LCS ship.


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## Stuttgart001

waja2000 said:


> If not wrong, SM-6 Anti-Ship variant RIM-174A modify from SM-6 standard, but main issue is Warhead too small (64kg) to attack Frigate/Destroyer, it main target on small patrol boat or Corvette. as comparisons, small NSM Anti-ship missile have 120kg warhead and Exocet Block III have 180kg Warhead. YJ-18 and Klub have much bigger warhead. NSM install in LCS ship.


China usd to conduct a similar test during which a RIM-9 hit a vessel .

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## Deino

This wasn't posted as far as I know !

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## Deino

... and more recent ones !

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## cnleio

Deino said:


> ... and more recent ones !
> 
> View attachment 409470
> View attachment 409471
> View attachment 409472


PLAN Type052D and Type055 DDG

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## cnleio

PLAN Type055 CG

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## 帅的一匹



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## sheik

cnleio said:


> PLAN Type055 CG
> 
> View attachment 409484
> View attachment 409485



so 112 unit VLS is confirmed?


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## cnleio

sheik said:


> so 112 unit VLS is confirmed?


Not yet, just a CGI.


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## Chanakyaa

Great Pics of a Superb machine !!

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## Pepsi Cola

*Focus - PLAN Type 055 Sensors*




*Analysis: Sensor and Electronic Warfare Suites Aboard China's Type 055 Destroyer*

While official Chinese media have been quite reactive and open with the launched of the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN or Chinese Navy) first Type 055 Destroyer (they did publish official images of the ceremony just two hours after it took place), details on the specifications of the ship, especially its sensor suite, are still scarce. But with plenty of imagery of Type 055 sensors now available, Navy Recognition contacted two retired French Navy officers (a former frigate commander and a former electronic warfare specialist) in order to try and learn more about the PLAN's latest surface combatant's sensors.




*Upmast of Type 055 during its launch (left) and upmast of the shore integration facility at Wuhan's 701 institute (right)*

This analysis based on open source intelligence (and mainly images) is limited because of the limited sources of images. All information here are hypotheses or "guesses" to the best of our sources' knowledge.

Our experts first underline that the sensor fit aboard the vessel is not complete yet. In the image above, you may notice that what is likely a TACAN (tactical air navigation system ) antenna fitted on top of the mast at the shore integration facility (right) is not present on the destroyer's actual mast (left). Some elements above the pilot house / bridge appear to be reinforced and are likely future placements for various sensors including an electro-optic s fire control system for the main gun. Navigation radar appear to be missing too. Note also that the 055 mast appear to be fitted with some kind of RCS reduction shields compared to the bare mast on the right.




*Type 055 right before its launch*

Here is the detailed analysis by the experts we contacted:
1: UHF/VHF transmitters or R-ESM interceptor antenna 
2: UHF/VHF receiver or R-ESM radio direction finding antenna 
3: UHF antenna or possible Tactical Data Link 
4: X-Band fire control radar for the missiles. For this role, the location is ideal (i.e nothing in its way, low risk of interference with other sensors).
5: This could be an IFF, however these antennas located above the bridge have different sizes. The large ones are likely linked to IFF roles but the smaller ones may well be LPI radars, surface (or combined) search radars or even the aforementioned "missing" navigation radars. 
6: Same thing: Likely an LPI surface search or navigation radar antenna...
7: While many people on Chinese forums claim that these are L-Band radar arrays, but our experts really doubt those claims. "They may look like long range radar arrays, but they are most probably not radar array, even less so L-band ones. Such a low position, close to the waterline, would render such arrays very much ineffective". While still unusual, these arrays are probably jammers. Their locations are perfect to cover the entire flanks of the vessel. Plus they would work perfectly in conjunction with the two CIWS (HP/J-11 gun forward and HQ-10 missiles on top of the helicopter hangar). 
8: Type 346B AESA Radar




*Close up view of the integrated mast*

Taking a closer look at the integrated mast: If the UHF/VHF antennas are located up-mast (as indicated in the side by side mast pictures), the R-ESM sensors may be fitted right above the X-Band radar (4). These two locations, so close to an X-band fire control radar may be prone to electromagnetic interference however. The small cylinder shape right above them is a jammer (the same type is already present aboard Type 052D destroyers at pretty much the same location). Finally the "Round Box" may house an antenna, an IFF system or simply the various connectors for all the systems fitted up the mast.





*Type 055 right before its launch*

Last but not least, some more information on the Type 055's Type 346B AESA radar emerged. According to this source, the Type 055 is equipped with advanced active phased array radar with a larger diameter than the Type 346A radar fitted aboard the Type 052C class. One Type 346B radar array is larger than the 4.3x4.3 meter of the Type 346A arrays. The transmitter and receiver unit (is also using the latest Chinese gallium nitride (GaN) technology. Finally this new radar system is reportedly capable of fire control as well.

CREDIT: Navyrecognition.com

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## cnleio



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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

I'm wondering how this toy is capable to hunt US modern subs such as seawolf?


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## cirr

I want to see 4 of these hitting the water by year end or before the Spring Festival 2018.

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## UKBengali

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I'm wondering how this toy is capable to hunt US modern subs such as seawolf?



Type 95 SSN will go up against Seawolf and
Virginia SSNs.


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## ChineseToTheBone

sheik said:


> so 112 unit VLS is confirmed?


Somebody on the Chinese forums have been claiming a company plane he was on flew over the area, which allowed him to see 112 VLS cells in total. It got a bunch of replies and I am honestly not sure if he was serious or not.


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## Arsalan

sheik said:


> so 112 unit VLS is confirmed?


Haven't the available photos reveled it already? 
I thought we are past that point now.


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## cnleio



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## lmjiao

Arsalan said:


> Haven't the available photos reveled it already?
> I thought we are past that point now.


No photos. Just confirmed by some guy actidently flying over her in the air.

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## Arsalan

lmjiao said:


> No photos. Just confirmed by some guy actidently flying over her in the air.


No!
I meant to say that aren't there enough pictures available on internet from which we can count the number of VLS cells?


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## Makarena

Arsalan said:


> No!
> I meant to say that aren't there enough pictures available on internet from which we can count the number of VLS cells?



yes, that is why the debate is pretty much useless until there is photo to confirm. Frankly, I'm more interested on how many of this ship will be built.

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## cnleio

This year we can see 2nd China type055 DDG to launch

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## lmjiao

Makarena said:


> yes, that is why the debate is pretty much useless until there is photo to confirm. Frankly, I'm more interested on how many of this ship will be built.


I think it will be more than 50 in half centry.



cnleio said:


> This year we can see 2nd China type055 DDG to launch
> 
> View attachment 410865


Actually, we can probably see No. 2, 3 and 4 launched this year. 

Current progersses for No. 2, 3, and 4 are almost in parallel.

Please check this at the end of this year.



Arsalan said:


> No!
> I meant to say that aren't there enough pictures available on internet from which we can count the number of VLS cells?


Sorry dude, exactly no single pic until this moment.

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## SingaporeGuy

Will they stop making type 052?


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## english_man

SingaporeGuy said:


> Will they stop making type 052?



Not sure..........but according to Henri.K, his website states that China has ordered in total 26 052D's............so far 13 have been built, or are in the process of building.

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## lmjiao

SingaporeGuy said:


> Will they stop making type 052?


Type 052 production has been paused, because of revision for the design. It will continue after finish.

Source: cjdby forum
Link: I forget

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## sheik

SingaporeGuy said:


> Will they stop making type 052?



Type 052D is capable while more affordable. I believe China will continue to build it in a large quantity, or its improved version 052E.


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## SingaporeGuy

lmjiao said:


> Type 052 production has been paused, because of revision for the design. It will continue after finish.
> 
> Source: cjdby forum
> Link: I forget


Hope we can see china overtake usa this lifetime and become number 1 in the world.

China will restore the pride of what it means to be chinese for china, taiwan, hongkong and singapore.

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## Makarena

SingaporeGuy said:


> Will they stop making type 052?



I don't think so, type 055 is very expensive, China may supplement 055 with 052 for quantity, but I'm sure China will certainly keep upgrading 052 though.


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## cnleio

lmjiao said:


> Actually, we can probably see No. 2, 3 and 4 launched this year.
> 
> Current progersses for No. 2, 3, and 4 are almost in parallel.
> 
> Please check this at the end of this year.


2020 PLAN, hope 4x type055 to build

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## Stuttgart001

Makarena said:


> I don't think so, type 055 is very expensive, China may supplement 055 with 052 for quantity, but I'm sure China will certainly keep upgrading 052 though.


Not as expensive as you think. 055 is about $ 0.9 billion per ship, while 052D is about $0.7 billion. 
055 is more cost-efficient as a destory with more electronics and censors and more weapons than 052D.
Now there is some CG of next generation frigate with a displacement of about 6000 ton on China millitary forum.



cnleio said:


> 2020 PLAN, hope 4x type055 to build
> View attachment 411028


There should be 13 052D.

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## lmjiao

cnleio said:


> 2020 PLAN, hope 4x type055 to build
> View attachment 411028


First batch of 055 contract is 8, some believe 12.

By 2020, probably 4 055s in service and 4 other launched.

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## Makarena

Stuttgart001 said:


> Not as expensive as you think. 055 is about $ 0.9 billion per ship, while 052D is about $0.7 billion.



any source for that? I actually find it hard to believe that 055 cost "only" 0.9 bil


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## Stuttgart001

Makarena said:


> any source for that? I actually find it hard to believe that 055 cost "only" 0.9 bil





Makarena said:


> any source for that? I actually find it hard to believe that 055 cost "only" 0.9 bil


Why you do not believe ?
055 is 100% domestic. 
Think about the price of civil products of China. Much cheaper than the western peers.
Beside, the millitary industry of China is state-own,so it is a reasonable price .

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## SingaporeGuy

Stuttgart001 said:


> Why you do not believe ?
> 055 is 100% domestic.
> Think about the price of civil products of China. Much cheaper than the western peers.
> Beside, the millitary industry of China is state-own,so it is a reasonable price .



Reminds me of my favourite qingdao beer.
Type 55 will be world famous, highest quality and most affordable.

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## CN_lang66

SingaporeGuy said:


> Reminds me of my favourite qingdao beer.



Off topic, but did u try the fresh ones from their factory? It is soooo good lol

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## lcloo

Makarena said:


> any source for that? I actually find it hard to believe that 055 cost "only" 0.9 bil



USD 0.9 billion was "leaked" more than 6 months ago, I think pop3 was the one who gave the figure. pop3 is a well respect poster in Chinese internet, he has close relationship with PLAN and ship builders. The source is many, one of which is CJDBY. The navy shipyards are government owned, they make very lean profit on navy ships compare with US and European shipyard.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Type 055 ~ 14,000 tonnes

Leader class ~ 17,500 tonnes

Kirov class ~ 28,000 tonnes

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## Deino



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## lmjiao

Deino said:


> View attachment 411206



These are 055 No. 3 and No. 4 in factory in Dalian, a different factory from the factory in Shanghai where the 055 No. 1 was launched and 055 No. 2 is under construction.

Also, these facotries are preparing metarials for 055 No. 5, 6, 7, 8 and ???

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## cirr

Makarena said:


> any source for that? I actually find it hard to believe that 055 cost "only" 0.9 bil



under 900 million USD at current exchange rates.

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## Makarena

Stuttgart001 said:


> Why you do not believe ?
> 055 is 100% domestic.
> Think about the price of civil products of China. Much cheaper than the western peers.
> Beside, the millitary industry of China is state-own,so it is a reasonable price .




what surprise me is that 055 is "only" 200 mil more expensive than 052, while 055 is significantly much more powerful.


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## cnleio

Deino said:


> View attachment 411206


WOW ... North China DaLian shipyard also start type055 building ?  If two shipyards can build type055 at the same time like they building type052D, it seems we can see more than 4x type055 until 2020 year. *GREAT ~!*

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## nika



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## Han Patriot

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-07/17/content_30134522.htm



> The marine resources survey ship will be 98 meters long and 17 m wide and will have a displacement of 4,000 tons. It will be driven by an *advanced electric propulsion system*.


Official confirmation of a working IEP.

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## cnleio

nika said:


> View attachment 411911


a beautiful white ship ~!

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## 52051

Makarena said:


> what surprise me is that 055 is "only" 200 mil more expensive than 052, while 055 is significantly much more powerful.



No, according to a PLA Navy rear admiral, 052D cost 3.5 billion RMB (roughly 0.5 billion USD), and 055 cost 5.5 billion RMB (roughly 0.83 billion USD).

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## PolarAir

Makarena said:


> what surprise me is that 055 is "only" 200 mil more expensive than 052, while 055 is significantly much more powerful.



noop, not 200 mil more, but 2 bil more. Or that wouldn't be fair...

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## Makarena

52051 said:


> No, according to a PLA Navy rear admiral, 052D cost 3.5 billion RMB (roughly 0.5 billion USD), and 055 cost 5.5 billion RMB (roughly 0.83 billion USD).



ah that make more sense


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## ChineseTiger1986

Lhasa will be named after a Type 055.

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## Daniel808

52051 said:


> No, according to a PLA Navy rear admiral, 052D cost 3.5 billion RMB (roughly 0.5 billion USD), and 055 cost 5.5 billion RMB (roughly 0.83 billion USD).



I think, that Cost is for "Hull" only paid to Shipyards.

But all Weapons and Electronics Equipment onboard that vessels paid for Different contractor is not included.

In this case you need to add another half.
1.5 x 0.83 billion USD = 1.25 billion USD for Type 055 Heavy Destroyer.

Still much Cost Efficient compare to western shipyards.
Anyway, Money is not a Problem for China.

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## 52051

Daniel808 said:


> I think, that Cost is for "Hull" only paid to Shipyards.
> 
> But all Weapons and Electronics Equipment onboard that vessels paid for Different contractor is not included.
> 
> In this case you need to add another half.
> 1.5 x 0.83 billion USD = 1.25 billion USD for Type 055 Heavy Destroyer.
> 
> Still much Cost Efficient compare to western shipyards.
> Anyway, Money is not a Problem for China.



I dont think so, thats a PLA rear admiral told the media about the cost of a warship to PLA navy, PLA navy only sign deal with the shipyard group, and thats the "flyaway" cost.

Nobody will only sign a cost of "hull" with the shipyard/aircraft factory etc, since it is meaningless, they sign deal with the shipyard for a total cost, the shipyard sign deals with sub system supplier.

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## cirr

Type 055 DDG #1 “*Nanchang*“ receives "allowance" from the municipal government 

*殷美根率南昌市慰问团走访慰问海军某部*

日期：2017-07-22 

来源：南昌新闻网——南昌日报
　　
共叙军民鱼水 深化双拥共建

南昌新闻网讯 在中国人民解放军建军90周年即将到来之际，7月21日，省委常委、市委书记殷美根率南昌市委、市政府、南昌警备区联合慰问团，专程来到海军某部，走访部队、慰问官兵，送上英雄城人民的深情问候。

市领导刘瑄、郭毅、华清一同走访慰问。

当天上午，军地双方举行慰问会，殷美根代表市委、市政府向部队送上慰问金，并向官兵们致以节日的问候和崇高的敬意。殷美根简要介绍了我市经济社会发展情况、当前和今后一个时期的工作重点和奋斗目标，希望部队官兵一如既往关心支持参与“第二故乡”的发展。他说，作为“军旗升起的地方”、人民军队的诞生地、全国双拥模范城八连冠唯一省会城市，南昌历来有着“拥军优属、拥政爱民”的光荣传统。今后，我们将持续弘扬优良传统，不断谱写军地融合发展新篇章。一是大力挖掘提升红色资源，严格按照党中央、中央军委和省委的部署要求，牢牢把握传承红色基因、推进强国强军主基调，通过建设一批爱国主义教育示范基地，举办一批有影响力的活动，创造一批优秀军事题材文艺作品等，精心组织、周密部署、广泛宣传八一南昌起义暨建军90周年系列纪念活动，确保高标准、高质量、高水平完成各项任务。二是大力推动军民融合发展，紧紧围绕新形势下强军目标，充分发挥南昌的产业优势和双拥传统，在更广范围、更高层次、更深程度推进各领域军民融合。三是大力提高双拥服务质量，全面构建横向到边、纵向到底、就近就便、全员覆盖的优抚服务网络，不断完善双拥机制，扎实开展宣传教育，努力营造军民团结参与、支持、推动双拥的浓厚氛围。

殷美根表示，南昌市永远是部队最稳固的后方，南昌人民永远是官兵们最坚强的后盾。我们将把你们取得的每一点成就、每一份荣誉引以为骄傲，全力支持部队建设发展，为增强人民海军战斗力贡献应有力量。

官兵们高度评价我市经济社会发展取得的突出成就和精心谋划的宏伟发展蓝图，表示将密切关注南昌发展、积极参与南昌建设，在改革强军、军地共建的伟大征程中实现共同的光荣与梦想，为海军建设贡献力量、为“第二故乡”亲人增光添彩。

慰问会后，军地双方还就深化双拥共建进行了座谈交流。（记者 谢松）

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## 星海军事

Hull construction of the third 055 was completed.

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## cnleio

Stealth version Type055B CG

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## yantong1980

cnleio said:


> Stealth version Type055B CG
> 
> View attachment 414061
> View attachment 414062
> View attachment 414063



Fans made? or real ?

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## 21stCentury

cnleio said:


> Stealth version Type055B CG
> 
> View attachment 414061
> View attachment 414062
> View attachment 414063


I see the rail gun

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## waja2000

lmjiao said:


> These are 055 No. 3 and No. 4 in factory in Dalian, a different factory from the factory in Shanghai where the 055 No. 1 was launched and 055 No. 2 is under construction.
> Also, these facotries are preparing metarials for 055 No. 5, 6, 7, 8 and ???



Also got news new large shipyard name CSSC Guangzhou Longxue Shipbuilding at Longxue Island, GuangZhou, will start built large Destroyer on 2018 for South PLAN, but not sure is 055 or 052D/E. heard Guangzhou huangPu shipyard (built PLAN frigate only due to small space) will move to this Longxue Island shipyard since merge to CSSC.

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## cnleio

waja2000 said:


> Also got news new large shipyard name CSSC Guangzhou Longxue Shipbuilding at Longxue Island, GuangZhou, will start built large Destroyer on 2018 for South PLAN, but not sure is 055 or 052D/E. heard Guangzhou huangPu shipyard (built PLAN frigate only due to small space) will move to this Longxue Island shipyard since merge to CSSC.


Sound GOOD ~ if China keep building these type052D type055 DDGs in 3x - 4x CSSC shipyards ... after five years there will be global-powerful Navy in Asia, to own 30+ modern DDGs

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## cnleio

Just need 10~15 years, i believe PLAN 50+ type052C/D、type055、LHD、A.C etc can come from these China world-level big shipyards:

*1. DaLian shipyard*






*2. JiangNan shipyard:*






*3. ZhongHua shipyard*










*4. DongNan shipyard:*






*5. HuangPu shipyard*






*6. LongXue shipyard*






*7. WuHan(WuChang) shipyard*






8. LiaoNan shipyard

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## Han Patriot

waja2000 said:


> Also got news new large shipyard name CSSC Guangzhou Longxue Shipbuilding at Longxue Island, GuangZhou, will start built large Destroyer on 2018 for South PLAN, but not sure is 055 or 052D/E. heard Guangzhou huangPu shipyard (built PLAN frigate only due to small space) will move to this Longxue Island shipyard since merge to CSSC.


It's good to diversify 052D/055 productions from North to South, the skillset and industrial can have multiple centers of excellence. Even US cannot out build us in naval ships.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Han Warrior said:


> It's good to diversify 052D/055 productions from North to South, the skillset and industrial can have multiple centers of excellence. Even US cannot out build us in naval ships.



Next step should be a Type 095 assembly line in the JNCX.

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## lmjiao

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Next step should be a Type 095 assembly line in the JNCX.


I disagree. The new production line in Huludao can produce 3 type 095 simutanously, quite enough for current requirement.

Unless we are preparing Word War III, then I don't think this necessary.



waja2000 said:


> Also got news new large shipyard name CSSC Guangzhou Longxue Shipbuilding at Longxue Island, GuangZhou, will start built large Destroyer on 2018 for South PLAN, but not sure is 055 or 052D/E. heard Guangzhou huangPu shipyard (built PLAN frigate only due to small space) will move to this Longxue Island shipyard since merge to CSSC.


Really? Do we acturally need so much production power?

Even single JNCX in shanghai can produce half Royal Navy every year. Dalian and Shanghai together can launch at lease 4 DDG every year, maybe more than 8 in full speed. 

I don't see why. For employments in Guangdong?

I think current PLAN do not need more than 40 DDG, because we don't have so much CVs for the DDGs to protect.

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## ChineseTiger1986

lmjiao said:


> I disagree. The new production line in Huludao can produce 3 type 095 simutanously, quite enough for current requirement.
> 
> Unless we are preparing Word War III, then I don't think this necessary.
> 
> 
> Really? Do we acturally need so much production power?
> 
> Even single JNCX in shanghai can produce half Royal Navy every year. Dalian and Shanghai together can launch at lease 4 DDG every year, maybe more than 8 in full speed.
> 
> I don't see why. For employments in Guangdong?
> 
> I think current PLAN do not need more than 40 DDG, because we don't have so much CVs for the DDGs to protect.



The new factory can produce 3 Type 096 or 6 Type 095 simultaneously, but consider that we need to outproduce the US, it is better to set a production line somewhere else. The US got two production lines.

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## lmjiao

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The new factory can produce 3 Type 096 or 6 Type 095 simultaneously, but consider that we need to outproduce the US, it is better to set a production line somewhere else. The US got two production lines.


OK, let's wait news and confirmation from CIA.

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## ChineseTiger1986

lmjiao said:


> OK, let's wait news and confirmation from CIA.



The CIA doesn't know jackshit about China.

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## lmjiao

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The CIA doesn't know jackshit about China.



OK. Let go back to the type 055 topic.

It can be easily checked after two or three years that whether the Type 055/052 will be under construction in Guangzhou. I will come back to this thread then.

If Type 055 is really under construction in Guangzhou, I feel really worried. Because unless our leader highly estimate the possibility of war against the US, we don't need to build so many warships so fast.

If you are right, the entire world is risky.

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## sheik

lmjiao said:


> OK. Let go back to the type 055 topic.
> 
> It can be easily checked after two or three years that whether the Type 055/052 will be under construction in Guangzhou. I will come back to this thread then.
> 
> If Type 055 is really under construction in Guangzhou, I feel really worried. Because unless our leader highly estimate the possibility of war against the US, we don't need to build so many warships so fast.
> 
> If you are right, the entire world is risky.



I think China's leaders did highly estimate the possibility of war against the US since long time ago.
Otherwise we cannot explain why China built the 2nd batch of 052C right before building the much improved version 052D. Actually the last two 052C were even commissioned later then the 1st 052D. I think the only reason was that China's leaders did not even want to wait for a little longer, because they felt the danger and it's important to have a few destroyers in service earlier even if they are less powerful.
However, whether there will be a war is not determined by China. It's Uncle Sam's call, but I am afraid the best chance for him is forever gone.

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## cnleio

sheik said:


> I think China's leaders did highly estimate the possibility of war against the US since long time ago.
> Otherwise we cannot explain why China built the 2nd batch of 052C right before building the much improved version 052D. Actually the last two 052C were even commissioned later then the 1st 052D. I think the only reason was that China's leaders did not even want to wait for a little longer, because they felt the danger and it's important to have a few destroyers in service earlier even if they are less powerful.
> However, whether there will be a war is not determined by China. It's Uncle Sam's call, but I am afraid the best chance for him is forever gone.


LOL ...  except Mao, other CCP leaders in BeiJing not like war with U.S.A, the only thing i can 100% sure, especiallly these DCD no way to war, that easily hurt their interests, today BeiJing like money more than a war.

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## Pangu

Its better to have a gun & not use it, then not having a gun but need to use one. Until Taiwan is reunited, there is no rest.

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## lmjiao

sheik said:


> I think China's leaders did highly estimate the possibility of war against the US since long time ago.
> Otherwise we cannot explain why China built the 2nd batch of 052C right before building the much improved version 052D. Actually the last two 052C were even commissioned later then the 1st 052D. I think the only reason was that China's leaders did not even want to wait for a little longer, because they felt the danger and it's important to have a few destroyers in service earlier even if they are less powerful.
> However, whether there will be a war is not determined by China. It's Uncle Sam's call, but I am afraid the best chance for him is forever gone.


OK, in this case, we can expect about 20 type 055 DDG within one decade.

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## Place Of Space

Daniel808 said:


> I think, that Cost is for "Hull" only paid to Shipyards.
> 
> But all Weapons and Electronics Equipment onboard that vessels paid for Different contractor is not included.
> 
> In this case you need to add another half.
> 1.5 x 0.83 billion USD = 1.25 billion USD for Type 055 Heavy Destroyer.
> 
> Still much Cost Efficient compare to western shipyards.
> Anyway, Money is not a Problem for China.



Money is a big problem for China, bro. In next 20 years, we have to pay for 350 million of the old's retirement pension. Hope all the expenditure in military can make some money for us.

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## waja2000

lmjiao said:


> I disagree. The new production line in Huludao can produce 3 type 095 simutanously, quite enough for current requirement.
> Really? Do we acturally need so much production power?
> Even single JNCX in shanghai can produce half Royal Navy every year. Dalian and Shanghai together can launch at lease 4 DDG every year, maybe more than 8 in full speed.
> I don't see why. For employments in Guangdong?
> I think current PLAN do not need more than 40 DDG, because we don't have so much CVs for the DDGs to protect.



Well all shipyard try get business from gov, from other view, Production in GuangDong is good for PLAN for south fleet, close to there navy base easy for arrangement/training, short time/more easy to get maintenance after commission. it may not get big contract like in Dalian/JNCX, but built some low quantity is good experience for GuangDong shipyard. 
Also since US also start produce more destroyer, i think PLAN will adjust the plan too. 
DDG role may not limited for Escort CVs, but it also can use as patrol job on his own or together with other small DDG or Frigate. also future new LPH also need protect too. 
anyway it just news.

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## waja2000

sheik said:


> I think China's leaders did highly estimate the possibility of war against the US since long time ago.
> Otherwise we cannot explain why China built the 2nd batch of 052C right before building the much improved version 052D. Actually the last two 052C were even commissioned later then the 1st 052D. I think the only reason was that China's leaders did not even want to wait for a little longer, because they felt the danger and it's important to have a few destroyers in service earlier even if they are less powerful.
> However, whether there will be a war is not determined by China. It's Uncle Sam's call, but I am afraid the best chance for him is forever gone.



Yep, specially 1996 Taiwan crisis really a lesson to China. that why china built new warship is with powerful arm/weapon compare to other Asian warship and for prepare future war with Japan/US Navy. and they china know to get back Taiwan, must make strong military power to block US assist in Taiwan, even European make warship also no have this level of firepower.

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## Stuttgart001

cnleio said:


> LOL ...  except Mao, other CCP leaders in BeiJing not like war with U.S.A, the only thing i can 100% sure, especiallly these DCD no way to war, that easily hurt their interests, today BeiJing like money more than a war.


According to your theotry, Soviet Union's leaders are so peace lover, cause they never launched a war against USA.


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## cnleio

Stuttgart001 said:


> According to your theotry, Soviet Union's leaders are so peace lover, cause they never launched a war against USA.


LOL, one soviet union's leader love peace so much, not only got Nobel Peace Prize also killed the country by himself ... hope such sad story never happen in Chinese leaders, so naive peace-love leader ! Sometimes blood better than peace for the government.

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## JSCh

From Jianchuan Zhishi (Naval and Merchant Ships) magazine.
EDIT: from cjdby.net, it is said that the picture is an old PSed picture.

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## cnleio

JSCh said:


> View attachment 416043
> 
> From Jianchuan Zhishi (Naval and Merchant Ships) magazine.
> EDIT: from cjdby.net, it is said that the picture is an old PSed picture.


The photo showed 128x VLS cells(back 64x), but words of magazine said 112x VLS cells(back 48x) ... 128x or 112x the truth still need official admit.

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## ZeEa5KPul

cnleio said:


> LOL, one soviet union's leader love peace so much, not only got Nobel Peace Prize also killed the country by himself ... hope such sad story never happen in Chinese leaders, so naive peace-love leader ! Sometimes blood better than peace for the government.
> 
> View attachment 414876
> View attachment 414877


I was surprised to learn that he still lives in Russia; I thought he'd be living in exile in the West. *Hmph.*

It's a testament to Russians' patience that they don't just hang that miserable wretch.

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## Martian2

*China's Type 055 Destroyer AESA Radars as ElectroMagnetic (EM) Weapons*






The X-band and S-band for radars are in the microwave region. AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radars have the unique ability to focus their beam onto one spot. Thus, China's Type 055 Destroyer X-band and S-band AESA radars can be used defensively as focused microwave beam emitters.

This means China's Type 055 Destroyer X-band and S-band AESA radars can target incoming anti-ship cruise missiles with a focused-beam of microwave energy. This will destroy the missiles' electronics such as the CPU, electronic guidance system, or missile radar sensors.

Conceptually, it is similar to throwing a computer chip (such as those in a smartphone) into a microwave. Turn on the microwave to "high" and the smartphone electronics and chips are damaged.

It is known that the American F-22 can use its AESA X-band radar to damage incoming cruise missiles (see citation below). Since the X-band and S-band radars on the Chinese Type 055 Destroyer are much more massive, the Type 055 Destroyer radars should have similar capability and probably greater range. The Chinese Type 055 has larger radars and more power (which increases range), but the air is thicker at sea level (which would reduce range).

In conclusion, the Chinese Type 055 Destroyer X-band and S-band AESA radars are a third line of defense against incoming anti-ship cruise missiles. The other two defensive systems are the FL-3000N anti-missile missile launchers and the Type 1130 CIWS (close-in weapon system) gatling guns.
----------

"The F-22A is equipped with the most powerful active array radar ever installed in a fighter aircraft. This will provide it with unprecedented range performance, but also opens up the option of using it as a microwave directed energy weapon to disrupt opposing electronic systems. US sources indicate it will also be used to jam opposing X-band radars (C. Kopp)."

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## onebyone

Martian2 said:


> *China's Type 055 Destroyer AESA Radars as ElectroMagnetic (EM) Weapons*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The X-band and S-band for radars are in the microwave region. AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radars have the unique ability to focus their beam onto one spot. Thus, China's Type 055 Destroyer X-band and S-band AESA radars can be used defensively as focused microwave beam emitters.
> 
> This means China's Type 055 Destroyer X-band and S-band AESA radars can target incoming anti-ship cruise missiles with a focused-beam of microwave energy. This will destroy the missiles' electronics such as the CPU, electronic guidance system, or missile radar sensors.
> 
> Conceptually, it is similar to throwing a computer chip (such as those in a smartphone) into a microwave. Turn on the microwave to "high" and the smartphone electronics and chips are damaged.
> 
> It is known that the American F-22 can use its AESA X-band radar to damage incoming cruise missiles (see citation below). Since the X-band and S-band radars on the Chinese Type 055 Destroyer are much more massive, the Type 055 Destroyer radars should have similar capability and probably greater range. The Chinese Type 055 has larger radars and more power (which increases range), but the air is thicker at sea level (which would reduce range).
> 
> In conclusion, the Chinese Type 055 Destroyer X-band and S-band AESA radars are a third line of defense against incoming anti-ship cruise missiles. The other two defensive systems are the FL-3000N anti-missile missile launchers and the Type 1130 CIWS (close-in weapon system) gatling guns.
> ----------
> 
> "The F-22A is equipped with the most powerful active array radar ever installed in a fighter aircraft. This will provide it with unprecedented range performance, but also opens up the option of using it as a microwave directed energy weapon to disrupt opposing electronic systems. US sources indicate it will also be used to jam opposing X-band radars (C. Kopp)."


welcome back Martian2

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## Deino

New image ....

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## terranMarine

Deino said:


> New image ....
> 
> View attachment 416662



Stunning isn't it? China's speed

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## Deino

terranMarine said:


> Stunning isn't it? China's speed




Indeed ... simply amazing !

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## lcloo

Those white spots located at where the aft section VLS are to be built is interesting, want to speculate on the number of VLS cells based on the number of these white spots?

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## ozranger

Deino said:


> Indeed ... simply amazing !



Such acceleration is sort of unusual. It doesn't only apply to 055, but also the CV-17 fitting, which is now so much ahead of what was initially scheduled.


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## cirr

terranMarine said:


> Stunning isn't it? China's speed



The image is nearly a month old.

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## waja2000

ozranger said:


> Such acceleration is sort of unusual. It doesn't only apply to 055, but also the CV-17 fitting, which is now so much ahead of what was initially scheduled.



Just there shipyard standard capability. and.they can work day and night, if they really want acceleration production more than 10 shipyard also can construct destroyer.

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## waja2000

055 Combat capability is 2.4 time of 052D
Photo taken on PLAN Equipment Department Engineer during presentation PLAN development in university ...

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## Dungeness

waja2000 said:


> 055 Combat capability is 2.4 time of 052D
> Photo from PLAN Equipment Department Engineer during presentation PLAN development in university ...
> View attachment 420547




I don't understand why the number of VLS is such a secret, 112 or 128?


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## damiendehorn

terranMarine said:


> Stunning isn't it? China's speed



We have a lot to learn.

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## Deino

PLN Type 055 DDG no. 02 - 20170824

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## cnleio



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## samsara

So according to the presentations the Combat Capabilities of Type 055 = 2.4X Type 052D whereas the Combat Capabilities of Type 052D = 1.6X Type 052C
(Type 055 = 3.84X Type 052C)

Or 10 unit of Type 055 equal to the combative power of 38 units of Type 052C 

I'm wondering which number is more likely, will PLAN build the Type 055 series (incl. the expanded models) as many as, let say 20 or 30 units in total (in active operation) within next few years, last time I read the 1st batch order amounted to 8 units. I just imagine how big the fleet of Type 055 series the PLAN is plotting for the not too distant future.

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## samsara

Read the opinion by some prominent member at the SDF who predicted that China will be *steadily* building up about 3 to 4 units of DDG of Type 055 (and its extensions) *each year* from now on *till the next 20 years* and even longer... in commensurate with China's rising needs to safeguard her economic and other strategic interests as the world's largest trading nation as well as the world's largest economy long before that period (to be achieved roughly around the year of 2022).... thus the necessity for very mighty blue ocean naval forces (as well as in other fields incl. the beneath waters).



> So after another 20 years, it will end up something like this
> 
> 6+ Aircraft Carriers
> 90+ Large DDG Type-55/52 (3 per year)
> 60+ FFG Type-54 (2 per year)
> 60+ OPV (one off)
> 
> AndrewS at SDF



And I wonder whether this prediction is on higher or lower range or simply much a realistic number tho read as well some other sceptical opinions there.

My own view, if there's such political decision at the highest level to realize the mighty blue ocean forces within not too distant future, then the above estimate lies within the lower range to realistic figure, but I tend to believe that China gonna achieve more!

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## waja2000

samsara said:


> Read the opinion by some prominent member at the SDF who predicted that China will be *steadily* building up about 3 to 4 units of DDG of Type 055 (and its extensions) *each year* from now on *till the next 20 years* and even longer... in commensurate with China's rising needs to safeguard her economic and other strategic interests as the world's largest trading nation as well as the world's largest economy long before that period (to be achieved roughly around the year of 2022).... thus the necessity for very mighty blue ocean naval forces (as well as in other fields incl. the beneath waters).
> And I wonder whether this prediction is on higher or lower range or simply much a realistic number tho read as well some other sceptical opinions there.
> !



I believe current 055 is not there target ship, believe will be 8 unit (some news said get extra order total is 12), there target ship is 055A which using Integrated Electric Propulsion (IEP) system and intercept short and intermediate-range ballistic missiles capability. 055A i believe will be around 24-36 unit, i expected 055A will be start construction around 2020.
And production 054A is end, next batch is 054B or 057 with IEP system, possible with small AESA radar system.

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## cnleio

waja2000 said:


> I believe current 055 is not there target ship, believe will be 8 unit (some news said get extra order total is 12), there target ship is 055A which using Integrated Electric Propulsion (IEP) system and intercept short and intermediate-range ballistic missiles capability. 055A i believe will be around 24-36 unit, i expected 055A will be start construction around 2020.
> And production 054A is end, next batch is 054B or 057 with IEP system, possible with small AESA radar system.


If China plan to build nubmers of type055 & type055A as many as u said, future PLAN type052C/D (20x) + type055/A DDGs will easily reach 60x as same as U.S Navy owned 'Arleigh Burke' DDGs ... unimaginable !

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## terranMarine

cnleio said:


> If China plan to build nubmers of type055 & type055A as many as u said, future PLAN type052C/D (20x) + type055/A DDGs will easily reach 60x as same as U.S Navy owned 'Arleigh Burke' DDGs ... unimaginable !



What time frame will PLAN reach 60x is your expectation?

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## cnleio

terranMarine said:


> What time frame will PLAN reach 60x is your expectation?


2025 ~ 2030

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## samsara

_Type 055 DDG vs the peer competitor - a comprehensive comparison of the main force of 10,000+ ton destroyers - power, radar, firing capabilities - a fans' video (21′ ; spoken Chinese Sorry No EngSub)_

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## siegecrossbow

cnleio said:


> View attachment 420734
> View attachment 420735
> View attachment 420736
> View attachment 420737
> View attachment 420738



They are seriously considering putting lasers/railguns on future 055s?


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## Figaro

siegecrossbow said:


> They are seriously considering putting lasers/railguns on future 055s?


Let's first talk about IEPs


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## grey boy 2

055 #1 update

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## Deino

PLN Type 055 DDG no. 3 + 4 at Dalian - 20170906

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## samsara

Deino said:


> PLN Type 055 DDG no. 3 + 4 at Dalian - 20170906
> 
> View attachment 423450


No, the sat pics were dated nearly *one month ago* 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/905374627580354560

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## cnleio

052C / 052D / 055

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## Deino

Latest image ...

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## cirr

Deino said:


> Latest image ...
> 
> View attachment 424836



#1

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## Speeder 2

128, or 112?


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## Deino

cirr said:


> #1




I thought that was clear to be #01 !


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## xuxu1457

Speeder 2 said:


> 128, or 112?


128

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## cnleio

China is building many new Type055 DDGs as fast as we can

3x Type055 DDGs building in ShangHai JN shipyard







3x Type055 DDGs building in DaLian shipyard

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## Figaro

cnleio said:


> China is building many new Type055 DDGs as fast as we can
> 
> 3x Type055 DDGs building in ShangHai JN shipyard
> View attachment 425891
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3x Type055 DDGs building in DaLian shipyard
> View attachment 425890


When are the IEPs variants going to come out?


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## cnleio

Figaro said:


> When are the IEPs variants going to come out?


Sorry, i don't know the time

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## Zhu Rong Zheng Yang

Figaro said:


> When are the IEPs variants going to come out?



According to CHN Awesome Top-Notch Megastar Scientist ( MA Wei Ming ) IEPS as already been installed many years ago on some commercial ships. Right off the bat, all PLAN 055 DDG are using Anti Electronic Warfare version of IEPS. 

Link:





===

_NOTE_:
Your beloved @Figaro ( _*ameriscum trump KKK nation*_ ) does NOT even have 
one scientist close to *just a quarter of* ( MA Wei Ming ) caliber. 



Presently at minimum, *CHN has 10 Awesome Top-Notch Megastar Scientists as Chief Designers creating cutting edge CHN military* hardware. 

Do not ask me to list them one by one here, because you should already know who they are. 
If you do not know ~ who they are, then you should do your homework by searching & watching youtube.

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## samsara

cnleio said:


> China is building many new Type055 DDGs as fast as we can
> 
> 3x Type055 DDGs building in ShangHai JN shipyard
> View attachment 425891
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3x Type055 DDGs building in DaLian shipyard
> View attachment 425890


Ha ha ha ... Many military experts or military analysts in the NATO will get surprised with this new reality! They always say that China will NOT be able to construct naval ships incl. the Type 055 DDG as fast as that!   In conclusion, most of the Western analysts/experts BELIEVE that in NO way the Chinese can build faster than the American are doing! USA USA USA!!!  The top guy (American) who controls one well-known mil forum owned by the Americans with focus on the Chinese military so frequented by some Chinese fans too even said at few occasions that the Chinese naval force still lacks behind the USN for several decades, and thing is even worse for the submarine gap with the mighty yet quiet American subs. Well, I think that we all should be careful with the judgement and should allow things to be seen as the new realities are being rolled out on year by year basis...

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## cnleio

samsara said:


> Ha ha ha ... Many military experts or military analysts in the NATO will get surprised with this new reality! They always say that China will NOT be able to construct naval ships incl. the Type 055 DDG as fast as that!   In conclusion, most of the Western analysts/experts BELIEVE that in NO way the Chinese can build faster than the American are doing! USA USA USA!!!  The top guy who controls one well-known mil forum owned by the Americans with focus on the Chinese military even said at few occasions that the Chinese naval force still lacks behind the USN for several decades, and thing is even worse for the submarine gap with the mighty yet quiet American subs. Well, just see as things are rolling over on year by year basis...


When BeiJing & Chinese own huge money & advanced techs, everything is possible in China.

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## Figaro

Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> According to CHN Awesome Top-Notch Megastar Scientist ( MA Wei Ming ) IEPS as already been installed many years ago on some commercial ships. Right off the bat, all PLAN 055 DDG are using Anti Electronic Warfare version of IEPS.
> 
> Link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ===
> 
> _NOTE_:
> Your beloved @Figaro ( _*ameriscum trump KKK nation*_ ) does NOT even have
> one scientist close to *just a quarter of* ( MA Wei Ming ) caliber.
> 
> 
> 
> Presently at minimum, *CHN has 10 Awesome Top-Notch Megastar Scientists as Chief Designers creating cutting edge CHN military* hardware.
> 
> Do not ask me to list them one by one here, because you should already know who they are.
> If you do not know ~ who they are, then you should do your homework by searching & watching youtube.


Oh come on @Zhu Rong Zheng Yang. Just because I don't want to kiss Russian a$$ like most others does not mean I don't respect China's military advances. And please keep your political views to yourself; no one wants to hear them. Have a good day.


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## english_man

Not being a killjoy.........but there are only 4 055's under construction. 2 at JN and 2 at Dalian.......and not 6............unless there is proof. As the photos shown a few posts back show 2 at JN, of which the first under cover is now launched........and just 2 at Dalian. Mind you that is very impressive as it is, as we only expected one lead ship to be built and proved, before construction started on the others.


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## leapx

english_man said:


> Not being a killjoy.........but there are only 4 055's under construction. 2 at JN and 2 at Dalian.......and not 6............unless there is proof. As the photos shown a few posts back show 2 at JN, of which the first under cover is now launched........and just 2 at Dalian. Mind you that is very impressive as it is, as we only expected one lead ship to be built and proved, before construction started on the others.



I would say it is already a fast pace since it is a brand new design.

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## cnleio

english_man said:


> Not being a killjoy.........but there are only 4 055's under construction. 2 at JN and 2 at Dalian.......and not 6............unless there is proof. As the photos shown a few posts back show 2 at JN, of which the first under cover is now launched........and just 2 at Dalian. Mind you that is very impressive as it is, as we only expected one lead ship to be built and proved, before construction started on the others.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> View attachment 426032
> View attachment 426033



These two pics look quite old, definitely before June 2017.

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## 星海军事

cnleio said:


> View attachment 426032
> View attachment 426033



The first batch of 055 involves only 4 ships. Those "#3 hulls" are grand blocks of the second 055 being built in each shipyard.

Since hull module integration of the fourth 055 has been completed recently, you will find those "#3 hulls" are disappeared now.

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## Figaro

More modules for new 055 spotted at Dalian

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## english_man

Looking at the shape of these modules, its more than likely they are for parts of the superstructure of the current 055's now being built at Dalian.

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## grey boy 2

2 055 DDG

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## Figaro

grey boy 2 said:


> 2 055 DDG


How many are they constructing currently rn (including the one recently launched)?

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## grey boy 2

Figaro said:


> How many are they constructing currently rn (including the one recently launched)?


I heard its the 1st batch of 4 055 DDG

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## english_man

I find Chinese Wiki is a pretty accurate source of information, to see construction tables for Chinese warship classes.............and at present its 4 warships for the 055 class. 

.......just to catch up on the latest info.........do we know now the VLS count for the 055 class?

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## samsara

english_man said:


> I find Chinese Wiki is a pretty accurate source of information, to see construction tables for Chinese warship classes.............and at present its 4 warships for the 055 class.
> 
> .......just to catch up on the latest info.........do we know now *the VLS count for the 055 class*?


Believe It Or Not... It's Still an unspoken "Top Secret"  and many mil observers/analysts are quite eager to know the exact count... some are even swearing on how is it possible that there ain't even a single picture showing clearly this VLS count after the launch for so many months...   patience patience... at duly time the number will be somehow divulged by the authority!



grey boy 2 said:


> 2 055 DDG


At the bottom picture, What's the huge vessel next to the CV-17 Type 001A A.C. ??

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## samsara

Figaro said:


> Yep. I think that's the 002 (aka 001A).


I think you meant *the succeeding carriers of the Next Type *(recalling that Shanghai is also building one concurrently) AFTER the "Shandong" CV-17 Type 001A, which is having the mooring trial at present.

whatever the correct type's numerical nomenclature of the immediate Next type [002/003], just to avoid confusion

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## samsara

Figaro said:


> Remember how the 001A is actually called the 002 ... and the 002 is actually called the 003 ... to avoid name confusion. Go look at the Type 002 (former 001A) thread ...


Nope you took me wrongly; my focus hence question was: "At the *bottom* picture, *What's the huge vessel [under construction] NEXT to* the CV-17 Type 001A A.C. ??

I asked about the _huge vessel under construction _you talked about the type's numerical matter (which I can care less) 

Edit: Okay thanks Figaro for clarifying.

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> Nope you took me wrong my focus hence question was: "At the *bottom* picture, *What's the huge vessel [under construction] NEXT to* the CV-17 Type 001A A.C. ??
> 
> I asked about the _huge vessel under construction _you talked about the type's numerical matter (which I can care less)


Oh that’s just a regular container/cargo ship ... no way it’s a new carrier or LHD.

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## ChineseTiger1986

english_man said:


> I find Chinese Wiki is a pretty accurate source of information, to see construction tables for Chinese warship classes.............and at present its 4 warships for the 055 class.
> 
> .......just to catch up on the latest info.........do we know now the VLS count for the 055 class?



Everything pointing toward 128.

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## lcloo

Just my personal speculation, the sensitive issue regarding the mid-ship VLS is not the number of cells but the new type of miisiles that it will carry, and hence the size of the VLS cell holes. 

New type of cruise missliles? Anti-ship Ballistic missiles? But then again, I could be wrong.

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## Figaro

lcloo said:


> Just my personal speculation, the sensitive issue regarding the mid-ship VLS is not the number of cells but the new type of miisiles that it will carry, and hence the size of the VLS cell holes.
> 
> New type of cruise missliles? Anti-ship Ballistic missiles? But then again, I could be wrong.


I heard the missile layout will be very similar to what's already on 052D ... no big surprises here unfortunately


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## lcloo

Figaro said:


> I heard the missile layout will be very similar to what's already on 052D ... no big surprises here unfortunately


Wait for the real photo to show up, we will know by then.

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## samsara

*The two Type 055 destroyers currently under construction at the Dalian shipyard,*
*the 3rd and 4th in series respectively, are taking shape.*










East Pendulum @HenriKenhmann 2017-10-02

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## grey boy 2

112 VLS confirmed with this picture 真的是112

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## Figaro

grey boy 2 said:


> 112 VLS confirmed with this picture 真的是112


128. One entire block of 16 VLS cells was blocked from this perspective. Hence I get 8*16 or 128 ...

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## grey boy 2

Figaro said:


> 128. One entire block of 16 VLS cells was blocked from this perspective. Hence I get 8*16 or 128 ...


I will be extremely happy to prove being wrong bro, however most agreed as 112 VLS in Chinese forums

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## cnleio

grey boy 2 said:


> 112 VLS confirmed with this picture 真的是112


Front 64x and back 64x VLS cells, one unit on photo = 8x cells.

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## 星海军事

112.

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## grey boy 2

Have to admit that i'm kinda disappointed....





Nice video
http://weibo.com/tv/v/FoHJ0hw7K?fid=1034:5f4fba1236b60862314f59371405fae5

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## ZeEa5KPul

grey boy 2 said:


> 112 VLS confirmed with this picture 真的是112


112? Why!? Why, China, why!!

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## 星海军事

ZeEa5KPul said:


> 112? Why!? Why, China, why!!



"Exploring and mastering the development of 10,000-ton missile destroyer lays an important foundation for China to build its world's most advanced destroyer." 

-- 055 is just the beginning of another long march.

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## lmjiao

112,


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## leviathan

ZeEa5KPul said:


> 112? Why!? Why, China, why!!





grey boy 2 said:


> Have to admit that i'm kinda disappointed....


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## Makarena

even 112 is pretty good if China mass produce it.

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## Daniel808

From other forum.

Some people insist its a 4 lane VLS in the back. But we cannot see the 4th line because, image perspective.






Let guessing

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## grey boy 2

Inside the construction site

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## GiantPanda

Daniel808 said:


> From other forum.
> 
> Some people insist its a 4 lane VLS in the back. But we cannot see the 4th line because, image perspective.
> 
> View attachment 429452
> 
> 
> Let guessing



Yes, from this angle 128 is every bit as good a guess as 112. 

Let’s wait until a better picture without obstruction of the rear set of VLS launchers is available.

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## samsara

*Henri KENHMANN from East Pendulum opines that Type 055 DDG has 112 silos in its vertical launch system, based on that CCTV picture.*

He also says _"...But the question to see if the new Chinese destroyer Type 055... has 112 or 128 silos in its vertical launch system has already caused very long debate among fans.

An eternal debate also found on the other buildings of the navies of the world, as for the *FREMM* or the new *FTI* of the Marine Nationale in France. It is also a debate which, for us, is meaningless but becomes synonymous with 'power' in a lot of people..."_

Read his just posted article (04 Oct) in French here: http://www.eastpendulum.com/et-si-le-destroyer-type-055-na-que-112-silos

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## grey boy 2

JN no:2? [浩汉原创] 过中秋庆国庆,中华复兴强军远洋

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## 星海军事

grey boy 2 said:


> JN no:2? [浩汉原创] 过中秋庆国庆,中华复兴强军远洋



This is the first ever 055.

Sometimes I believed that some of our friends should learn to cut their expectations in half.

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## english_man

星海军事 said:


> This is the first ever 055.
> 
> Sometimes I believed that some of our friends should learn to cut their expectations in half.



Yes, i believe you are right, as the 2nd 055 was behind the 1st, and there isn't an 055 ahead of this vessel in the photo.........unless after the 1st was launched, the 2nd 055 was shifted up to where the 1st was. Anyway, the superstructure looks too far advanced in construction, as when the 1st 055 was launched, the hull of the 2nd had been completed only?

One other point, it was good to see a photo of the ship workers working inside the shipyard on a vessel, as i always believed security was very tight, as the only photos we get are from long shots taken by people outside the naval shipyards..........it could be though that the modules being welded as shown, were actually for a commercial vessel, or that if it was a naval vessel then as what is shown is of an early stage of construction, then it wouldn't have any meaningful purpose to anyone else.

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## JSCh

* China's new Type 055 missile destroyer to upgrade reaction capability of weapons, improve country's navy: expert *
By Shan Jie Source:Globaltimes.cn Published: 2017/10/5 14:38:22

Media have reported that China's new missile destroyer equips more than 100 Vertical Launching Systems (VLS), which experts said on Thursday could upgrade the rapid-reaction capability of weapons.

A report published by CCTV on Tuesday showed that China's new Type 055 guided-missile destroyer has had 112 VLS cells installed, surpassing the US Navy's Arleigh Burke-class destroyers in quantity.

"The number of VLSs shows the combat and rapid-reaction capability of [China's] warships," military expert Song Zhongping told the Global Times on Thursday.

"Since recharging a VLS is relatively difficult, the more VLSs a vessel takes, the stronger and quicker its reaction," he said.

According to Song, China's previous destroyers could only equip limited numbers of launching cells, so the Type 055 could upgrade rapid-reaction capabilities of weapons, Song said, noting that increasing the number of launching tubes and cells of vessels is the necessary road for China's large warships in the future.

The Type 055 destroyer, the Chinese navy's first 10,000-ton domestically designed and produced vessel, was unveiled at Jiangnan Shipyard (Group) in East China's Shanghai on June 28, the Xinhua News Agency said.

The destroyer is the first of China's new generation destroyers. It is equipped with new air defense, anti-missile, anti-ship and anti-submarine weapons. The vessel marks a milestone in improving the nation's navy armament system and in building a strong and modern navy, said Xinhua.

"The Type 055 destroyer will form China's anti-missile system together with the 052D destroyer, which has been commissioned. China will also be able to build a Chinese version of the Aegis missile defense system with the inclusion of the Type 055," Song told the Global Times in a previous interview.

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## S10

It's almost certainly 112 VLS cells at this point. There is just not enough space for another row in the rear. I think it will be laid out like below, subjected to mission requirement change of course.

Front VLS section:
32 - HHQ-9B long range SAM
16 - HQ-19 anti-ballistic missiles
16 - HQ-16 medium range SAM, quad packed

Rear VLS section:
16 - CJ-10 land attack cruise missiles
16 - Yu-8 ASW missiles
16 - YJ-12 Anti-Ship missiles

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## clarkgap

S10 said:


> It's almost certainly 112 VLS cells at this point. There is just not enough space for another row in the rear. I think it will be laid out like below, subjected to mission requirement change of course.
> 
> Front VLS section:
> 32 - HHQ-9B long range SAM
> 16 - HQ-19 anti-ballistic missiles
> 16 - HQ-16 medium range SAM, quad packed
> 
> Rear VLS section:
> 16 - CJ-10 land attack cruise missiles
> 16 - Yu-8 ASW missiles
> 16 - YJ-12 Anti-Ship missiles




YJ-12 can not be vertical launched. It should be YJ-18. Moreover, some sources claim a special version of YJ-18 is the shipborne land attack missiles.

YJ-12





YJ-18

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## grey boy 2

055 DDG compared to Arleigh Burke class DDG
Disclaimer: I do not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials.

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## JSCh

Finally,








​

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## cnleio

JSCh said:


> Finally,
> 
> View attachment 430829
> 
> View attachment 430830
> ​


112x

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## cirr

Not quite done yet

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## grey boy 2



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## ZeEa5KPul

JSCh said:


> Finally,
> 
> View attachment 430829
> 
> View attachment 430830
> ​


......

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## grey boy 2

Some pictures of 055 DDG
Disclaimer: I do not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials.

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## ChineseTiger1986

ZeEa5KPul said:


> ......



The Type 055B will eventually fulfill your dream of 128.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 055B will eventually fulfill your dream of 128.


Don't forget IEPs ... much more important than 128. Maybe even rail guns?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Don't forget IEPs ... much more important than 128. Maybe even rail guns?



The Type 055B will get the 155 mm gun instead of the current improved 130 mm one.

Also, with 128 units of VLS instead of 112.

As for the direct energy weapons, I think we have to wait for the Type 055C.

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## clarkgap

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 055B will eventually fulfill your dream of 128.



I do not think 128 VLS cell is necess


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 055B will get the 155 mm gun instead of the current improved 130 mm one.
> 
> Also, with 128 units of VLS instead of 112.
> 
> As for the direct energy weapons, I think we have to wait for the Type 055C.



No evidence support the 155mm gun and 128 units of VLS in furture development. Why do we always talk about that? It can not be more imprtant than new missile variants and radar system.

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## rcrmj

S10 said:


> It's almost certainly 112 VLS cells at this point. There is just not enough space for another row in the rear. I think it will be laid out like below, subjected to mission requirement change of course.
> 
> Front VLS section:
> 32 - HHQ-9B long range SAM
> *16 - HQ-19 anti-ballistic missiles
> 16 - HQ-16 medium range SAM, quad packed*
> 
> Rear VLS section:
> 16 - CJ-10 land attack cruise missiles
> 16 - Yu-8 ASW missiles
> *16 - YJ-12 Anti-Ship missiles*




no they dont have these three atm```especially YJ-12, people say "never say never" but in this case I'd say never 

so it is 112 after all`````"D


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## ChineseTiger1986

clarkgap said:


> I do not think 128 VLS cell is necess
> 
> 
> No evidence support the 155mm gun and 128 units of VLS in furture development. Why do we always talk about that? It can not be more imprtant than new missile variants and radar system.



POP3 did mention about the next batch of the Type 055 will have the 155 mm gun.

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## clarkgap

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> POP3 did mention about the next batch of the Type 055 will have the 155 mm gun.



May you show me the original source?


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## ChineseTiger1986

clarkgap said:


> May you show me the original source?



I think it is in the Haohan forum, you have to create an account first, then ask directly to POP3.

Otherwise, even if I provide you a link, you still wouldn't be able to view it without a registered account.

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## cnleio

China Type055 DDG















世界首台复杂曲面船板三维数控弯板装备工作现场


> 复杂曲面船板成形是船舶工业普遍面临的一个技术瓶颈。多年来，国内外船厂对曲面分段中的三维曲面（双曲度）船体外板进行加工，一直是采用人工操作的方式。由于依赖操作人员的技术和经验，技术复杂，工作条件差，熟练工人日渐缺乏，加之存在生产效率低、污染环境等问题，已成为现代化造船的生产瓶颈。一些用于军舰的特种钢不能采用水火弯板工艺，其加工成形的难度更大。
> 
> 为了破解这一难题，由山东硕力、武汉理工大学、江南造船（集团）有限公司组成的产学研联合体研发团队，在数字加工的基础上进行智能研发，最终实现复杂曲面板材加工的数字化、自动化、智能化。他们研发的“复杂曲面船板三维数控弯板装备”集成了机、电、液、控、光技术，实现了造船领域从设计到加工的统一数据源的贯通，是造船领域的一项重大工艺变革，是世界上少有的大规模投入使用并且可以实现船体外板数字冷弯成形的成套装备。

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## samsara

Watch this footage to have the better idea on the "complex surface ship 3D NC bending equipment integrated machine" 

*China's SKWB-2500 3D CNC bending machine*

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## 帅的一匹

cnleio said:


> China Type055 DDG
> View attachment 431152
> 
> View attachment 431169
> 
> View attachment 431151
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 世界首台复杂曲面船板三维数控弯板装备工作现场
> 
> View attachment 431150


When Chinese is fully organized and educated, we can achieve whatever we want.

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## cirr

samsara said:


> Watch this footage to have the better idea on the "complex surface ship 3D NC bending equipment integrated machine"
> 
> *China's SKWB-2500 3D CNC bending machine*



One of many reasons why China is able to churn out as many warships as she chooses

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## grey boy 2

055B DDG CG (055B型导弹驱逐舰)
Disclaimer: I do not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials.

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## TruthHurtz

wow u guys are close to finishing this?!?! last time i checked it was still in concept stages...

kudos to chinese fast paced work efficiency

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## yusheng



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## grey boy 2

A lot 指挥长：大量新型战舰分段-喜迎盛会！

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## Figaro

Type 055 no.3 and no.4

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## masud

Figaro said:


> Type 055 no.3 and no.4


4 SHIP BUILDING AT SAME TIME,........OMG.


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## GS Zhou

masud said:


> 4 SHIP BUILDING AT SAME TIME,........OMG.


that's nothing surprise to the Chinese shipbuilding sector.

For example, China's Jiangnan Shipyard is currently building four units of Type 052D destroyers, two units of Type 055 destroyers, two units of Type 039B subs simultaneously. I.e. *8 naval ships* building at the same shipyard at the same time.

The naval ships building activities in China's Dalian Shipyard is even LARGER

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## masud

grey boy 2 said:


> 055B DDG CG (055B型导弹驱逐舰)
> Disclaimer: I do not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials.


it,s compare to US DDG-1000. Simple WOW............


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## Figaro

GS Zhou said:


> that's nothing surprise to the Chinese shipbuilding sector.
> 
> For example, China's Jiangnan Shipyard is currently building four units of Type 052D destroyers, two units of Type 055 destroyers, two units of Type 039B subs simultaneously. I.e. *8 naval ships* building at the same shipyard at the same time.
> 
> The naval ships building activities in China's Dalian Shipyard is even LARGER


Chinese shipyards do what most cannot : produce massive numbers of vessels while simultaneously having high quality control. There has been an *enormous *improvement in PLAN shipbuilding over the past 5 years ... and you can expect this trend to continue in the next 5 years. Only in the future, you won't just be seeing destroyers and submarines being built at such a pace ... but also replenishment ships, nuclear submarines (095 and 096), and LHD's.

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## samsara

*055 and Burke comparison. Not 100% accurate at details but overall length seems



to what we know. ~180m and 155m*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/919391629789691904_What Burke series is it?_ Looks like *IIA*; note helicopter hangar and aft SPY-1 array [Rick Joe]


*My fav shot of the 055 from the recent news report. Really shows the length of the ship and the size of the helipad*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/918650493131517952






_Who's Rick Joe?_
I write about Chinese military _shenanigans_ now and then at plarealtalk.com

*shenanigans* (_plural noun, informal_) means "secret or dishonest activities that people find interesting or amusing" (Source: Oxford Learner’s Dictionaries)

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

The next 100 years belong to China to take us to Mars and Space exploration

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## samsara

*The very first Type 055 destroyer to be christened Nanchang 南昌, with hull number 101.*

Nanchang 南昌 is the capital city of China's southeastern province, Jiangxi, and has the high significance as the birthplace of the People's Liberation Army (i.e. the Nanchang Uprising in 1927), it's also called "_the City of Heroes_".





*Via dafeng cao‏ @xinfengcao 2017-11-16*

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## Makarena

btw, I heard there is a fifth one being built, is that true?


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## clarkgap

Makarena said:


> btw, I heard there is a fifth one being built, is that true?



There are some rumors from Haohan, but no image now.


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## ZeEa5KPul

samsara said:


> *The very first Type 055 destroyer to be christened Nanchang 南昌, with hull number 101.*
> 
> Nanchang 南昌 is the capital city of China's southeastern province, Jiangxi, and has the high significance as the birthplace of the People's Liberation Army (i.e. the Nanchang Uprising in 1927), it's also called "_the City of Heroes_".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Via dafeng cao‏ @xinfengcao 2017-11-16*


A fitting name.

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## waja2000

Makarena said:


> btw, I heard there is a fifth one being built, is that true?



rumours from china just said shipyard start built the new module for new ship. possible only see at dry dock end of 2018


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## clarkgap

waja2000 said:


> rumours from china just said shipyard start built the new module for new ship. possible only see at dry dock end of 2018



We found it now. Jane's bought a new satellite imagery to analyze the number of LCAC in Jiangnan Shipyard. We can found the module of fifth 055 and fifteenth 052D. I label them on the image.

http://www.janes.com/article/76078/china-building-more-yuyi-class-lcacs

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## waja2000

clarkgap said:


> We found it now. Jane's bought a new satellite imagery to analyze the number of LCAC in Jiangnan Shipyard. We can found the module of fifth 055 and fifteenth 052D. I label them on the image.
> 
> http://www.janes.com/article/76078/china-building-more-yuyi-class-lcacs
> 
> View attachment 440093



Good news.. For #5 055

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## cnleio

China 2nd Type055 DDG prepare to launch

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## cnleio

Type055 AESA radar test building

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## rendong

11/25/2017, latest satellite image shows two new ships' modules have been laid down next to 055s, which are supposed to be 052D #16 #17.

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## pzkilo

dumplings~~~ dumplings~~~


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## cnleio



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## terranMarine

those 2 055 is making nice progress

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## clarkgap

cnleio said:


> View attachment 445250



There are two new modules in front of these two 055. Are they the Type 055 No.6 and No.7, or new 052?


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## Deino

clarkgap said:


> There are two new modules in front of these two 055. Are they the Type 055 No.6 and No.7, or new 052?










via


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/946333864548433920

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

*新年055万吨大驱伴航辽宁舰航母组成特混编队现身海疆*
原创 浩汉防务论坛 2018-01-01 21:22:11
_*New Year Large destroyer 055 of 10,000 tons accompanying Liaoning carrier special fleet formation*_* in the sea



*

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

The more powerful PLA is,the more peaceful this world would be!

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## Akasa

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> The more powerful PLA is,the more peaceful this world would be!


----------



## Figaro

SinoSoldier said:


>


He has a point. When China's military was weak, China was bullied into submission or even invaded on a global stage. Foreign powers exploited China's military weakness by deliberately stoking conflicts such as the Opium Wars. The Japanese invaded China due to the weakness of the Nationalist KMT Army. By having a strong military, China can no longer be invaded or bullied into fighting. Hence, a strong PLA equates to peace is a legitimate point. Remember that most wars have been brought upon China ... not the other way around.

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## 帅的一匹

Figaro said:


> He has a point. When China's military was weak, China was bullied into submission or even invaded on a global stage. Foreign powers exploited China's military weakness by deliberately stoking conflicts such as the Opium Wars. The Japanese invaded China due to the weakness of the Nationalist KMT Army. By having a strong military, China can no longer be invaded or bullied into fighting. Hence, a strong PLA equates to peace is a legitimate point. Remember that most wars have been brought upon China ... not the other way around.


The invasions you mentioned were all coming from the sea.

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## 帅的一匹

Figaro said:


> ... what’s your point?


My point is that we need a number 1 navy in the world.

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## 帅的一匹

Figaro said:


> A strong navy and Air Force is equally necessary imo


Then make it both

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## Figaro

2nd 055 getting closer to be launched ...

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## cnleio

Figaro said:


> 2nd 055 getting closer to be launched ...
> View attachment 446869


N.o2

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## waja2000

cnleio said:


> N.o2
> 
> View attachment 446887



seems possible launch before chine new year in Mid February.

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## lcloo

While still waiting for latest photo of 055 No.1, let this quench your thirst. Taken during an award winning ceremony. 2017 Award for Contribution on Innovation (JN shipyard).

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## cirr

055A in the works.


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## ozranger

lcloo said:


> While still waiting for latest photo of 055 No.1, let this quench your thirst. Taken during an award winning ceremony. 2017 Award for Contribution on Innovation (JN shipyard).
> View attachment 448803



Did anyone notice the helicopter is a Z-20?

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## Deino

PLN Type 055 DDG no. 1 at the Jiangnan Shipyard taken on 24. November 2017 (image via SDF)

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## cirr

Type 055 with railgun

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## clarkgap

Looks like they are testing a new gun module on 072 (May be a rail gun). There are several power modules on the deck.

















The length of 072 is 119 meter. We can estimate the length of the gun by following image:

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## terranMarine

cirr said:


> Type 055 with railgun
> 
> View attachment 450974


055A ?


----------



## Grandy

Type 055A
This fan-made computer-generated image of the Type 055A destroyer shows it with a railgun in place of the 130mm cannon found on the Type 055 (though the Type 055A may use a stealthier railgun turret).
_Popular Science_

*Looks like China just installed a railgun on a warship, beating the U.S. Navy to the punch*

* Railguns are another way the PLAN hopes to get an edge in 21st-century naval warfare. *
By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer 





Type 055A
This fan-made computer-generated image of the Type 055A destroyer shows it with a railgun in place of the 130mm cannon found on the Type 055 (though the Type 055A may use a stealthier railgun turret).
baoxiuyuan

Pictures surfacing online appear to show a new weapon developed in China. The nation may have just installed a full-scale railgun on a warship, something even the United States Navy has yet to do.





How railguns work
This BAE graphic illustrates the basic principles behind railgun technology, as well as its advantages: high launch speed and range, affordability, and high firing volume). Chinese railguns on the Type 055A destroyer would likely have similar characteristics.
BAE

Railguns use electromagnetic energy, rather than gunpowder, to sling a projectile. The concept has been incredibly appealing to militaries, as the weapon offers the speed and efficiency of a cannon, but with the range of a missile.





A Global First
Type 072III landing ship tank (LST) Haiyang Shan, #936, would be the world's first railgun-armed warship. Its small size and lack of combat features means that it will likely be used to test and validate the technologies of the railgun.
Da Feng Cao

Photos shared on Twitter show that the Chinese Navy's Type 072III landing ship tank (LST) Haiyang Shan, #936, has a new turret installed on its bow, replacing the H/PJ76F 37mm anti-aircraft turret. There are also three shipping containers.





Close-Up
The entire railgun measures roughly 65 feet from turret rear to barrel muzzle, with the barrel itself about 33 feet long, and 12-20 feet in diameter. Such a wide barrel provides room for the parallel magnetic rails that propel metal projectiles to speeds of over Mach 7.
AndrewTear

The turret spotted indicates the presence of a railgun. It's large, for one, with a barrel that measures 26-33 feet in length and 12 to 20 inches in diameter. That's 2-3 times the cannon caliber of conventional tube artillery barrels, which generally have a diameter-to-caliber ratio of 1.25:1. Alternatively, a 350-400mm naval mortar could explain the the barrel diameter and length, but such a large mortar would be hilariously unnecessary.

Due to weight issues, there is virtually no reason for a conventional cannon to have this kind of diameter-to-caliber ratio, and so the barrel's size likely accommodates magnetic rails to propel shells to hypersonic speeds. The shipping containers are another indicator; it's likely they contain some sort of power equipment, like generators or capacitors.

Its barrel length makes the Chinese railgun similar in size to the BAE 32 megajoule railgun built for U.S. Navy testing. The BAE system is designed to fire 22-pound projectiles at Mach 7 speeds to more than 100 miles.





USN Railgun
Despite previous efforts to install this multi-megawatt railgun on the USNS Trenton, shifting budget priorities in late 2017 may mean that this railgun may never be carried on a USN warship.
US Navy

The United States had earlier planned to install a railgun prototype on the USNS Trenton fast transport in 2016, but this was postponed for budgetary reasons. In fact, current railgun research funding has been reported as in trouble, as the Pentagon focuses first on equipping conventional naval guns with the railgun's low-drag, high-speed ammunition.





A Work in Progress
This photo—recently released though taken in fall 2017 but just released—shows the #936 during modifications. The supposed railgun turret is under tarps.
Chinese Internet

China's advancing work in railgun and other electromagnetic technologies shouldn't come as a surprise. In addition to copious open-source research by Chinese scientists, a program led by Rear Admiral Ma Weiming has in the past hired Chinese military engineers to build state-of-the-art electromagnetically assisted launch system (EMALS) catapults for future Chinese aircraft carriers. The program also built integrated electrical propulsion systems (IEPS) to meet the electrical needs of future Chinese warships.

And keep in mind: just because the railgun is there doesn't mean the railgun _actually works_. Engineers for this test, as with all other railgun work, will have to overcome formidable challenges in material durability, power storage, and projectile guidance. If successful, however, it would offer China a game-changing capability. A working railgun would likely be installed on future versions of the Type 055 destroyer, which makes sense considering the vessel has been reported to have IEPS, which would meet the electrical demands of railguns and other direct-energy weapons like lasers.
_*Popular Science *_
In terms of benefits, the railguns' hypersonic (Mach 5+), long-range projectiles would be perfect for cheaply and quickly knocking out high-threat air targets like ballistic missiles, aircraft, and even future hypersonic vehicles. The long range would also come in handy for missions like anti-ship warfare, supplementing shorter-ranged antiship ballistic and cruise missiles. Finally, such long-ranged artillery would be a significant addition to long-range bombardment of ground targets.

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## lcloo

055 scale model and a Sov destroyer.

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## clarkgap

DaLian: 2x055, 2x052D

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## clarkgap

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/969442305458556928No.6 055 destroyer. Dalian shipyard. 2018.1.31 (satellite image)

From @星海军事 weibo:

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## lcloo

Latest photo update on type 055 in Dalian. No.1,2 & 3 from Dalian Shipyard.


No.3 from Dalian (aka No.6 of the class)







No. 1 and 2 from Dalian (aka No. 3 & 4 of the class), and the 052D undergoing sea trial/out-fitting.

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## lcloo

No.2 Type 055 has the main 130mm gun installed.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 463994


Dalian Shipbuilding Industry co.,ltd.

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## LKJ86



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## Dante80

Hmm, I was under the impression that the sensors on the bridge roof in the original design would be embedded into a railing system. The photo above shows them as they were at the time the ship launched. Isn't that a fall hazard for anyone going out there? (there is a door in the intergrated mast in the back). 

btw...for 2€, I'd definitely buy that magazine myself..C:


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## nika



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## LKJ86



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## cirr

It looks though progress in the R & D of YJ-XX near-space hypersonic anti-ship missile is faster than expected.

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> It looks though progress in the R & D of YJ-XX near-space hypersonic anti-ship missile is faster than expected.



Is this it?

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## lcloo

Photo update on work in progress.

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## cirr



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## 帅的一匹

第一批几艘？


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## clarkgap

wanglaokan said:


> 第一批几艘？


 
No.3, No.4, No.6


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## cirr

055 #2 to hit water on Saturday 28.04.2018?

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## samsara

*Dalian Shipyard 5×052D + 3×055 DDGs (April 2018)*

*




*

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## 帅的一匹

samsara said:


> *Dalian Shipyard 5×052D + 3×055 DDGs (April 2018)*
> 
> *
> View attachment 469118
> *


That's a CBG in the making!

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## Deino

samsara said:


> *Dalian Shipyard 5×052D + 3×055 DDGs (April 2018)*
> 
> *
> View attachment 469118
> *




Just as a reply to your complaints certain members would not - or even deliberately ignore - the original source:

This image was posted by A.Man at the SDF long before you posted it here and you did not mention him even if one might assume you should have seen it there ....






But I do not want to nit-pick; I only want to demonstrate that it is too far-fetched to assume each image posted at the SDF was "stolen" here since there are so many forums out there where an image was posted. Most often I find the images at Twitter and often enough they are posted here few minutes later.

However I agree with you, if the original source is known, this should be given ... but mentioning where an image was found is not helpful nor justified since it still does not give credit to the original source or photographer, which is often enough not known.

Best,
Deino

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Just as a reply to your complaints certain members would not - or even deliberately ignore - the original source:
> 
> This image was posted by A.Man at the SDF long before you posted it here and you did not mention him even if one might assume you should have seen it there ....
> 
> View attachment 469141
> 
> 
> But I do not want to nit-pick; I only want to demonstrate that it is too far-fetched to assume each image posted at the SDF was "stolen" here since there are so many forums out there where an image was posted. Most often I find the images at Twitter and often enough they are posted here few minutes later.
> 
> However I agree with you, if the original source is known, this should be given ... but mentioning where an image was found is not helpful nor justified since it still does not give credit to the original source or photographer, which is often enough not known.
> 
> Best,
> Deino


Deino, I didn't know the post by "A.Man", I have didn't get the pic from SDF! It's up to you and others to believe my words. I don't know the photographer, no way I can give such credit. Other providers are clearly printed on the pic, it's obvious by itself, no need to mention further.
And you're an administrators in both forums, surely you can see the trend in which flow the information/materials are duplicated without the due credit. As I mentioned earlier, this kind of practice has not just happened recently.

P. S. I suggest those diligent posters in PDF to put some simple watermark to the key/significant pics before being uploaded at PDF to deter such practice, like I did above "Via PDF" for example. Let's see the outcome if done consistently.

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## Deino

samsara said:


> Deino, I didn't know the post by "A.Man", I have didn't get the pic from SDF! It's up to you and others to believe my words. I don't know the photographer, no way I can give such credit. Other providers are clearly printed on the pic, it's obvious by itself, no need to mention further.
> And you're an administrators in both forums, surely you can see the trend in which flow the information/materials are duplicated without the due credit. As I mentioned earlier, this kind of practice has not just happened recently.



Dear @samrasa, exactly my point and I thrust you; I believe your word, but in the same way you did not find this image at the SDF I also thrust by78 that he did not find it here.

Consequently in the same way any accusation, you would have "stolen" that image at the SDF without giving credit, is unfair ... but would then in return not be any accusation against any SDF-member, they would copy and paste only from the PDF be also unfair?

Again, my point is there are so many possibilities where one might have found an image first ...

Best,
Deino

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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/6111786953/4232822640783691

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## lcloo

055 #2 with color flags and DDG 175. Launch of 055#2 is very soon, may be tomorrow.

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## cirr

lcloo said:


> 055 #2 with color flags and DDG 175. Launch of 055#2 is very soon, may be tomorrow.
> 
> View attachment 469547

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## 帅的一匹

How many destroyers we need? 60 or 80?


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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/2859620437/4233765280835807

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## cirr

055A/B on the drawing board.

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## nika

*055#2*

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## LKJ86

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/KNmvwPs92bocelLU63y0Uw

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## cirr

#2

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## 帅的一匹

好事将近

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## cirr



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## 艹艹艹

cirr said:


> View attachment 471613


#2？

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 472533
> View attachment 472534




#3 and #4 at Dalian painted?


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## clarkgap

Deino said:


> #3 and #4 at Dalian painted?



Yes.


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## lcloo

Photos taken from an airliner passenger jet on an extremenly foggy condition of last 2 days. #3 & 4 are getting closer to launching.

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## LKJ86

@Deino

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## Nahid

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 474616
> View attachment 474617
> 
> 
> @Deino


did they install rail gun on it?


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## nang2

Nahid said:


> did they install rail gun on it?


NO


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## lcloo

The photos at post #1194 are that of type 055 #1 (JNCX, Shanghai) berthed along the river bank of Changjiang aka Yangtze River, outside the "mega out-fitting pool". This is the usual location for ships that are in their last leg of out-fitting, before they go for sea trial. Hope to see her sails before end of July or sooner.

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## LKJ86



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## Figaro

Nahid said:


> did they install rail gun on it?


Obviously not! We saw a railgun on a dedicated testing ship ... not a new class destroyer.

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## Ultima Thule

Nahid said:


> did they install rail gun on it?


Chinese rail gun is in the testing phase @Nahid


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## cirr

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 474616
> View attachment 474617
> 
> 
> @Deino

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

055 vs 052D

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## LKJ86

055 *20???

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## chengdusudise

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 474746


Beauty and the Beast


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

#2

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## 帅的一匹

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 474868
> 
> 055 *20???


批了，再送5艘。



LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 474868
> 
> 055 *20???


批了，再送5艘。

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

2* 055 + 5* 052D

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## LKJ86



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## yusheng



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## cirr



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## 帅的一匹

This is doomed to be one of the largest sacle of fleet build-up in mankind history.

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## Figaro

wanglaokan said:


> This is doomed to be one of the largest sacle of fleet build-up in mankind history.


We need to see a similar buildup in the underwater fleet, particular the PLAN boomer fleet. A strong navy requires both a strong surface and below-surface fleet.

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## 帅的一匹

Figaro said:


> We need to see a similar buildup in the underwater fleet, particular the PLAN boomer fleet. A strong navy requires both a strong surface and below-surface fleet.


That's why they always kept below the 'surface'.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## terranMarine

wanglaokan said:


> This is doomed to be one of the largest sacle of fleet build-up in mankind history.



I know our Southern neighbor is having sleepless nights

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## 帅的一匹

terranMarine said:


> I know our Southern neighbor is having sleepless nights


They are no where close.

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## LKJ86

wanglaokan said:


> They are no where close.


Do we really care about them?

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## yusheng

the 3th, 4th is read to .....:

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## AstroTrain

^^ they should keep that red Chinese flag under the bridge windows, it adds to the look of the ship. I am more interested in this cruiser than the AC, combo of brute strength and modern stealth.

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## LKJ86

CG

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## english_man

Looking at the latest images..........it appears the 055 program is being given priority, in terms of effort in getting the vessels built. A bit like when the first 052D was outfitted very quickly, and actually joined the Chinese Navy, before the last two 052C's.
Also by building more than one at a time, i'am sure the Chinese are saving quite a bit of money, on their construction, which in turn means they can afford to build more in the future!
Anyway, overall its great to see so much activity at these Chinese naval shipyards!

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## LKJ86

2018.5.26

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## LKJ86



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## Brainsucker

So when will the first 055 join PLAN?


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## Daniel808

LKJ86 said:


> 2018.5.26
> View attachment 476791
> View attachment 476792
> View attachment 476793



Dual Launch of Type 055 Destroyer (12,800 Tonnes)? What a Capability ! 

They do this in Peace time.
You can Imagine the Scale of Chinese Manufacturing Capability in War-time if that come !

@initial_d_mk2 @Mista @katarabhumi @madokafc

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> Do we really care about them?


I do care more the eastern neighbour and even way more the faraway “eastern side”, which is far from being a neighbour, yet regards every sea in the world as its divinely entitled lake. Therefore all these developments become relevant.

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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/1663285094/4245090589946143

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

CG

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## lcloo

Type 055 lead ship (#1) is in JNCX's dry dock No.4, together with another ship said to be Xue Long No.2 (China's second polar expediction ice breaker transport ship).

Dry dock #4 has just been upgraded very recently, including a partition wall at the waist of its length to enable 2 to 4 or more ships to be constructed in the dry dock. This dry dock is said to be the one where China's second domestic aircraft carrier will be constructed

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

#2

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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/6111786953/4248532725214316

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

055 Vertical Launch System

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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/1393530757/4249445829353795

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## JSCh



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## LKJ86

2018.6.14

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Tsubodai

Apologies I posted this under the 052 thread by mistake:

The VLS on the 055 are 9 meters long by .85 meter in diameter, correct?
That allows for a very large missile. I was looking at China's ballistic missiles and the DF-11A is 8.5 meters long by .8 meters in diameter. What if the 055 was armed with ship-borne anti-ship ballistic missile based on the DF-11A and using the guidance and targeting developed for the DF 21? An 825 km range ballistic missile with a warhead of 500 kg coming in at high speed would be deadly! Just a thought.


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## 星海军事

Tsubodai said:


> Apologies I posted this under the 052 thread by mistake:
> 
> The VLS on the 055 are 9 meters long by .85 meter in diameter, correct?
> That allows for a very large missile. I was looking at China's ballistic missiles and the DF-11A is 8.5 meters long by .8 meters in diameter. What if the 055 was armed with ship-borne anti-ship ballistic missile based on the DF-11A and using the guidance and targeting developed for the DF 21? An 825 km range ballistic missile with a warhead of 500 kg coming in at high speed would be deadly! Just a thought.


DF-11A is 11.25 m long and 0.88 m in diameter.

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## Tsubodai

ah ok, thank you for this. What is the source please?


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## 帅的一匹

Tsubodai said:


> ah ok, thank you for this. What is the source please?


你是忠虢仁么?


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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> 你是忠虢仁么?




Again ... you know the rules. This is an English forum, so either post a translation or leave it and why always these questions on loyalty?


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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> Again ... you know the rules. This is an English forum, so either post a translation or leave it and why always these questions on loyalty?


i have the right to ask, and he has the.right not to answer

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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> i have the right to ask, and he has the.right not to answer




But the language to be used at this forum is ENGLISH, that's the point. And to be clear, it's not a rule made by me but by the owner of this forum.


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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> But the language to be used at this forum is ENGLISH, that's the point. And to be clear, it's not a rule made by me but by the owner of this forum.


i understand it. may i ask what is the forum rule to deal with false flagger?

no Chinese will name his avatar by a mongolian general.

and even a layman knows a ballastic missle wont fit on a DDG.

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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> i understand it. may i ask what is the forum rule to deal with false flagger?
> 
> no Chinese will name his avatar by a mongolian general.
> 
> and even a layman knows a ballastic missle wont fit on a DDG.



To admit I don't know and even more I don't know what's the issue of searching for false-flaggers; maybe you should ask a senior moderator or admin.

Best,
Deino


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## Tsubodai

I don't understand your issue sorry. There is no size descriptor of a ballistic missile. The word ballistic has to do with its trajectory. What is the problem here? I really don't understand.


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## 帅的一匹

Tsubodai said:


> I don't understand your issue sorry. There is no size descriptor of a ballistic missile. The word ballistic has to do with its trajectory. What is the problem here? I really don't understand.


you didnt answer my.previous.question? if you are Chinese.you can read it.


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## LKJ86

wanglaokan said:


> you didnt answer my.previous.question? if you are Chinese.you can read it.


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## lcloo

wanglaokan said:


> you didnt answer my.previous.question? if you are Chinese.you can read it.


LOL! I am 101% sure Google translation would not be able to translate that one.

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## samsara

lcloo said:


> LOL! I am 101% sure Google translation would not be able to translate that one.


@wanglaokan — WHY assume??? Just assume nothing to not get wrong!! You are not new to the Internet realm, so don't bother such issue for any answer won't be relevant. Just follow the flows and conclude by yourself. I recall there is a proverb that says more or less like this: “To be ridiculous is to be certain!”  and @lcloo is absolutely correct 

OOT: I wonder if anyone watches the VNL F6? The host just made a good, entertaining debut, that may very well seal her a spot in the last four

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## 帅的一匹

samsara said:


> @wanglaokan — WHY assume??? Just assume nothing to not get wrong!! You are not new to the Internet realm, so don't bother such issue for any answer won't be relevant. Just follow the flows and conclude by yourself. I recall there is a proverb that says more or less like this: “To be ridiculous is to be certain!”  and @lcloo is absolutely correct
> 
> OOT: I wonder if anyone watches the VNL F6? The host just made a good, entertaining debut, that may very well seal her a spot in the last four


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## 帅的一匹

build as many as possible, the war is imminent

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## LKJ86

--------------------------------------

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

Congratulations! Now get back to work.

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

I like the modules

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## samsara

cirr said:


> Congratulations! Now get back to work.


And no champagnes, throwing no merry party for such dual launch of cruiser-like DDGs? So plain, so modest, so mean... 

Now just imagine if such dual launch of this kind and size does happen elsewhere... how much fanfare spot light they may earn? How time has changed indeed...

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 483919
> View attachment 483921
> View attachment 483922
> View attachment 483923
> 
> ...



 Congratulation and what a memorable day, launching two 12000t DDG's simultaneously is indeed not a regular sight.



wanglaokan said:


> build as many as possible, the war is imminent




Oh, come on ... what a stupid comment. There is no war imminent and please leave this war-mongering. Seems as if You cannot wait for war??

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 484022




Thant surely means "Photography not allowed!" ... or am I wrong (surely) ??


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Thant surely means "Photography not allowed!" ... or am I wrong (surely) ??


No fishing

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> No fishing


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## cirr

Enough modules for 2 055 DDGs

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## LKJ86



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## samsara

Deino said:


> Congratulation and what a memorable day, launching two 12000t DDG's simultaneously is indeed not a regular sight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, come on ... what a stupid comment. There is no war imminent and please leave this war-mongering. Seems as if You cannot wait for war??


SO TRUE! It's always the China's philosophy to build that much in order to convince the other party to not resort to the adoption of violent means to force in its interests upon the nation of China.

WHY I say this? Because the nation of China can compete by peaceful means in trade and commerce and achieve prosperity by manufacturing and trading without using the coercive military force to destroy others or dictate her interests through military muscles.

And due to the very bitter many century-long history of being forced and screwed under the bigger gunboat diplomacies, it's also the equally strong wishes of the Chinese people to never, never again allow any foreign force to put the guns into their heads, forcing their interests upon the Chinese people!

But actively seeking war is the foolish & reckless notion. War should be the last resort for the nation of China, but it won't allow other to dictate their one-sided terms or blackmail the nation by violence threats either!! And of course territorial integrity and reunification of the loosen parts are of the paramount importance, but there are still time for peaceful resolve!

EDIT: The German people should understand very well what do I wrote  And I also read a lot about such thinking of the German people and the ways they perceive about life and prosperity and means to achieve that state. Been in Berlin and Munich last winter.

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## Daniel808

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 484012



Congratulations for China's Navy 
The power of China's industrial capability is a Pride for all Chinese people !
What a show Love this moment

@antonius123 @Reashot Xigwin @Viet

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## Viet

Daniel808 said:


> Congratulations for China's Navy
> The power of China's industrial capability is a Pride for all Chinese people !
> What a show Love this moment
> 
> @antonius123 @Reashot Xigwin @Viet


No need to tag me in any Chinese military thread as I don’t want to comment here. Anyway one comment: we will see whether China Navy will ever reach 1,000 warships. That is about the size of China surface fleet during the heyday of the Ming. The Ming then launched an all-out war against Vietnam, attacking us by land and sea forces.


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## cirr



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## nang2

Viet said:


> No need to tag me in any Chinese military thread as I don’t want to comment here. Anyway one comment: we will see whether China Navy will ever reach 1,000 warships. That is about the size of China surface fleet during the heyday of the Ming. The Ming then launched an all-out war against Vietnam, attacking us by land and sea forces.


Stupid comment, as if war is just a number game without any substance.


----------



## ozranger

Deino said:


> Congratulation and what a memorable day, launching two 12000t DDG's simultaneously is indeed not a regular sight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, come on ... what a stupid comment. There is no war imminent and please leave this war-mongering. Seems as if You cannot wait for war??



I personally believe one of the major reasons for which Xi's term of office was extended indefinitely is for allowing him to have enough time buffer to ultimately solve the Taiwan problem.

With that regard, war is really getting near as China needs to prepare to confront the US. I'd like to say this final solution will happen in the next 10 to 15 years and the Chinese government is already working en route to ruin Taiwan's economy. 

That can well explain why in the last 2 decades China has been going so crazy to modernise its war systems.


----------



## Figaro

ozranger said:


> I personally believe one of the major reasons for which Xi's term of office was extended indefinitely is for allowing him to have enough time buffer to ultimately solve the Taiwan problem.
> 
> With that regard, war is really getting near as China needs to prepare to confront the US. I'd like to say this final solution will happen in the next 10 to 15 years and the Chinese government is already working en route to ruin Taiwan's economy.
> 
> That can well explain why in the last 2 decades China has been going so crazy to modernise its war systems.


Going to war over Taiwan with the United States is seriously not worth it ... how much does China really stand to gain even if they succeed? China would be shunned/sanctioned by the US and it’s allies (all of the EU, Japan). The arms modernization/buildup is to ensure that the US thinks twice about starting hostilities with China ... similar to the strategy of the USSR during the Cold War. But a Taiwan invasion scenario seems way too far fetched ...



nang2 said:


> Stupid comment, as if war is just a number game without any substance.


Should China and Vietnam go to war again, I think just a small portion of the PLAN’s Southern Naval Fleet is enough to destroy the Vietnamese navy ... let alone a 1000 ship task force.

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## kuge

samsara said:


> SO TRUE! It's always the China's philosophy to build that much in order to convince the other party to not resort to the adoption of violent means to force in its interests upon the nation of China.
> 
> WHY I say this? Because the nation of China can compete by peaceful means in trade and commerce and achieve prosperity by manufacturing and trading without using the coercive military force to destroy others or dictate her interests through military muscles.


plan seems to deter wars by numbers in peace time. 
what if a war really started by another party to test the capabilities of plan's system? (if that foreign power doesnt fall for the number prop up by plan)


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## IblinI

nang2 said:


> Stupid comment, as if war is just a number game without any substance.


It is the only way for him to sleep well, last time he used the number of yankee's ac deployed during Viet war. Stupid at its best.

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## JSCh

*Two more Type 055 destroyers launched*
By ZHAO LEI | China Daily | Updated: 2018-07-04 07:49
















China launches two Type 055 guided-missile destroyers, widely considered Asia's biggest such combat vessels, at a shipyard in Dalian, Liaoning province, on Tuesday. [Photo/LIU DEBIN FOR CHINA DAILY]

China launched on Tuesday two Type 055 guided-missile destroyers, widely considered Asia's biggest and mightiest such combat ship, according to witnesses outside a shipyard in Dalian, Liaoning province.

Weapons enthusiasts published photos taken near Dalian Shipbuilding Industry, which has built two aircraft carriers, on internet military forums. They also described what they saw of the two giant ships' launches.

When ships are moved into the water, their construction is basically finished. It is regarded as the most important step before sea trials. Water started to be pumped into dry docks where the vessels were built around 7 am, before the docks' gates were opened, witnesses said.

Photos showed that there was a small launch ceremony at the shipyard with hundreds of workers standing in formation in front of the two Type 055s, each decorated with a huge national flag and ceremonial banners.

Then the ships were pushed into open waters by several tugboats, the photos showed.

The next steps usually are for engineers to test and fine-tune equipment already mounted on the ships and continue installing other devices. Then they will conduct mooring tests and sea trials before the ships are commissioned in the People's Liberation Army Navy.

Four Type 055s have now been launched, but none are yet commissioned. The first of the class was launched in late June 2017 at Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai, the second in late April at the same shipyard.

Type 055 is China's newest generation of guided-missile destroyers. It has a displacement greater than 10,000 metric tons and will be equipped with new types of air defense, missile defense and anti-ship and anti-submarine weapons, according to the Navy.

It has 112 vertical launching cells that can fire various kinds of missiles, including China's long-range land-attack cruise missile. Its firepower is thought to be twice that of the Type 052D, the largest and most powerful surface combatant commissioned in the PLA Navy.

While the Type 055 is classifed as a destroyer, outside China it would be considered a cruiser as its large size and heavy displacement are comparable to that of the United States' Ticonderoga class cruiser. Li Jie, a senior researcher for the PLA Navy, said the vessel displaces about 13,000 tons.

The latest version of the United States' Arleigh Burke class, the largest family of destroyers in the world, has a full displacement of 9,800 tons. South Korea's Sejong the Great class displaces 11,000 tons while Japan's Atago class displaces 10,000 tons.

Cao Weidong, a senior researcher at the PLA Naval Military Studies Research Institute, said that compared with other destroyers in the Navy, the Type 055 features stealth design, stronger strike prowess and higher information capacity and will tremendously boost the PLA Navy's long-range operational capability.

He also said such ships will greatly strengthen the country's carrier battle groups.

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## 帅的一匹

JSCh said:


> *Two more Type 055 destroyers launched*
> By ZHAO LEI | China Daily | Updated: 2018-07-04 07:49
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China launches two Type 055 guided-missile destroyers, widely considered Asia's biggest such combat vessels, at a shipyard in Dalian, Liaoning province, on Tuesday. [Photo/LIU DEBIN FOR CHINA DAILY]
> 
> China launched on Tuesday two Type 055 guided-missile destroyers, widely considered Asia's biggest and mightiest such combat ship, according to witnesses outside a shipyard in Dalian, Liaoning province.
> 
> Weapons enthusiasts published photos taken near Dalian Shipbuilding Industry, which has built two aircraft carriers, on internet military forums. They also described what they saw of the two giant ships' launches.
> 
> When ships are moved into the water, their construction is basically finished. It is regarded as the most important step before sea trials. Water started to be pumped into dry docks where the vessels were built around 7 am, before the docks' gates were opened, witnesses said.
> 
> Photos showed that there was a small launch ceremony at the shipyard with hundreds of workers standing in formation in front of the two Type 055s, each decorated with a huge national flag and ceremonial banners.
> 
> Then the ships were pushed into open waters by several tugboats, the photos showed.
> 
> The next steps usually are for engineers to test and fine-tune equipment already mounted on the ships and continue installing other devices. Then they will conduct mooring tests and sea trials before the ships are commissioned in the People's Liberation Army Navy.
> 
> Four Type 055s have now been launched, but none are yet commissioned. The first of the class was launched in late June 2017 at Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai, the second in late April at the same shipyard.
> 
> Type 055 is China's newest generation of guided-missile destroyers. It has a displacement greater than 10,000 metric tons and will be equipped with new types of air defense, missile defense and anti-ship and anti-submarine weapons, according to the Navy.
> 
> It has 112 vertical launching cells that can fire various kinds of missiles, including China's long-range land-attack cruise missile. Its firepower is thought to be twice that of the Type 052D, the largest and most powerful surface combatant commissioned in the PLA Navy.
> 
> While the Type 055 is classifed as a destroyer, outside China it would be considered a cruiser as its large size and heavy displacement are comparable to that of the United States' Ticonderoga class cruiser. Li Jie, a senior researcher for the PLA Navy, said the vessel displaces about 13,000 tons.
> 
> The latest version of the United States' Arleigh Burke class, the largest family of destroyers in the world, has a full displacement of 9,800 tons. South Korea's Sejong the Great class displaces 11,000 tons while Japan's Atago class displaces 10,000 tons.
> 
> Cao Weidong, a senior researcher at the PLA Naval Military Studies Research Institute, said that compared with other destroyers in the Navy, the Type 055 features stealth design, stronger strike prowess and higher information capacity and will tremendously boost the PLA Navy's long-range operational capability.
> 
> He also said such ships will greatly strengthen the country's carrier battle groups.


deploy it to east pacific when operational. we shall pay a return visit to USA as they often patrol South China sea. thats called free navigation.

we shall send clear message to USA that they cant rule the world as per their wish.

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## samsara

*Two more Type 055 destroyers launched*
By ZHAO LEI | China Daily | Updated: 2018-07-04 07:49

China launched on Tuesday two Type 055 guided-missile destroyers, widely considered Asia's biggest and mightiest such combat ship, according to witnesses outside a shipyard in Dalian, Liaoning province.

Weapons enthusiasts published photos taken near Dalian Shipbuilding Industry, which has built two aircraft carriers, on internet military forums. They also described what they saw of the two giant ships' launches.

When ships are moved into the water, their construction is basically finished. It is regarded as the most important step before sea trials. Water started to be pumped into dry docks where the vessels were built around 7 am, before the docks' gates were opened, witnesses said.

Photos showed that there was a small launch ceremony at the shipyard with hundreds of workers standing in formation in front of the two Type 055s, each decorated with a huge national flag and ceremonial banners.

Then the ships were pushed into open waters by several tugboats, the photos showed.

The next steps usually are for engineers to test and fine-tune equipment already mounted on the ships and continue installing other devices. Then they will conduct mooring tests and sea trials before the ships are commissioned in the People's Liberation Army Navy.

Four Type 055s have now been launched, but none are yet commissioned. The first of the class was launched in late June 2017 at Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai, the second in late April at the same shipyard.

Type 055 is China's newest generation of guided-missile destroyers. It has a displacement greater than 10,000 metric tons and will be equipped with new types of air defense, missile defense and anti-ship and anti-submarine weapons, according to the Navy.

It has 112 vertical launching cells that can fire various kinds of missiles, including China's long-range land-attack cruise missile. Its firepower is thought to be twice that of the Type 052D, the largest and most powerful surface combatant commissioned in the PLA Navy.

While the Type 055 is classifed as a destroyer, outside China it would be considered a cruiser as its large size and heavy displacement are comparable to that of the United States' Ticonderoga class cruiser. Li Jie, a senior researcher for the PLA Navy, said the vessel displaces about 13,000 tons.

The latest version of the United States' Arleigh Burke class, the largest family of destroyers in the world, has a full displacement of 9,800 tons. South Korea's Sejong the Great class displaces 11,000 tons while Japan's Atago class displaces 10,000 tons.

Cao Weidong, a senior researcher at the PLA Naval Military Studies Research Institute, said that compared with other destroyers in the Navy, the Type 055 features stealth design, stronger strike prowess and higher information capacity and will tremendously boost the PLA Navy's long-range operational capability.

He also said such ships will greatly strengthen the country's carrier battle groups.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201807/04/WS5b3c0b97a3103349141e0844.html

——————

*China launches guided missile destroyers*
By Zhao Lei | chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2018-07-03 13:25

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201807/03/WS5b3b08c7a3103349141e0659.html

Oops. Just noted @JSCh posted the same article minutes ago. I was interrupted when I was preparing it.

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## Tim

wanglaokan said:


> deploy it to east pacific when operational. we shall pay a return visit to USA as they often patrol South China sea. thats called free navigation.
> 
> we shall send clear message to USA that they cant rule the world as per their wish.



China can conduct FONOP near USA water ?


----------



## 帅的一匹

Figaro said:


> No need. That would require HUGE logistical constraints and constant monitoring of the Chinese force. Why would the Chinese care about FONAP operations, which are purely symbolic in nature. If anything, FONAPS gives Chinese intelligence to monitor the American ships and gives the Chinese government a reason for their militarization of the South China Sea.
> 
> 
> That would be a huge waste of resources (e.g. fuel, ammunition, supplies). Repeatedly sailing out to the Western Pacific (beyond the Second Island Chain) would be the ultimate message ...


they.will not care you.if you dont bring it to their doorway. the only way to deter your rival is to show what you are capable of.

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## Figaro

wanglaokan said:


> they.will not care you.if you dont bring it to their doorway. the only way to deter your rival is to show what you are capable of.


Sailing to the doorstep of the United States would be a huge waste of resources ...


----------



## Daniel808

Figaro said:


> Sailing to the doorstep of the United States would be a huge waste of resources ...



China is not a poor country, Fuel for their Warships sailing from Western Pacific to Eastern Pacific and even to Carribean Sea is nothing for China's Economic Capability today.

And after patrol International Waters near US coast, China's Navy Warships can pay friendly visit to many Carribean and South American countries that already have Positive view toward China's Rising Influence in American Continent.

It will bring much benefit to China and send a Strong message to USA.

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## LKJ86

The purchase price of Type 055 is about 6 billion RMB, equal to 0.9 billion dollars.

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

055 #1 ready for sea trials? 








LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 484388
> 
> The purchase price of Type 055 is about 6 billion RMB, equal to 0.9 billion dollars.



It simply means that we can afford as many 055s as we please.

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## LKJ86

cirr said:


> 055 #1 ready for sea trials?
> 
> View attachment 484567
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It simply means that we can afford as many 055s as we please.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 486159



 ... Western press


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1018385478523867136

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

055？


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## cirr

Lots of DDGs - 9 minimum, and the new CV construction base to the east

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Rafi

Beautiful sight.


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## LKJ86

055?

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## cirr

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 487673
> View attachment 487674
> 
> 055?



Of course.

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> 055?





cirr said:


> Of course.



The aft top section for the 3rd one at Jiangnan.

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## cirr

Deino said:


> The aft top section for the 3rd one at Jiangnan.



Right





17.07.2018

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

One Type 055 DDG has been moved.

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 489365
> View attachment 489366
> 
> 
> One Type 055 DDG has been moved.

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

JNCX - 05.08.2018

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## cirr



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## lcloo

Pennant No. 101 is confirmed for the lead ship of type 055. Boat No. 101-1 spotted.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> Pennant No. 101 is confirmed for the lead ship of type 055. Boat No. 101-1 spotted.
> View attachment 492026



Most likely a PS-Job only ... in the original image there's nothing but a brown placard applied ...








... which was clearly manupulated to 101-1

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Figaro



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## cirr

055 #1 on her first sea trials this morning.

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## cirr



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## LKJ86

cirr said:


> View attachment 493916
> 
> 
> View attachment 493917


Video:https://m.weibo.cn/5530708523/4276635546759439

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## LKJ86

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/uxf97qSV6UXUeQqhaV8LYw

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## j20blackdragon

055

Which is the superpower and which is the third world country?

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## cirr

DL on 09/09/2018: 1X055 + 2X052DL in the dockyard with modules continuing to pile up onshore.

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## LKJ86

Video:https://m.weibo.cn/2149981442/4284119514388596

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 498161


A better one:

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## cirr



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## cirr

Type 055 DDG is PLAN's first warship armed with one of new generation weapons systems being designed and fielded, i.e. hypersonic anti-ship missile system having a strike range of some 1000km.

More(advanced weapons systems) to come.

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## serenity

cirr said:


> Type 055 DDG is PLAN's first warship armed with one of new generation weapons systems being designed and fielded, i.e. hypersonic anti-ship missile system having a strike range of some 1000km.
> 
> More(advanced weapons systems) to come.



Where did you learn this (hypersonic anti ship weapon/s) and how reliable is the source?

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> Type 055 DDG is PLAN's first warship armed with one of new generation weapons systems being designed and fielded, i.e. hypersonic anti-ship missile system having a strike range of some 1000km.
> 
> More(advanced weapons systems) to come.



I believe this is what you are referring to. (1/2)







More documents on this weapon concept. (2/2)

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## cirr

serenity said:


> Where did you learn this (hypersonic anti ship weapon/s) and how reliable is the source?



I might as well add that 052Ds, retrofits or new builds, will also have this capability.

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## Cybernetics

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1040463390815277056

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## 艹艹艹



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## 055_destroyer

long_ said:


> View attachment 501312


Hello everyone. I love 055 destroyer. It is my first post. Type 055 is a very beautiful ship.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## cirr

DL on 04.10.2018

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## waja2000

cirr said:


> DL on 04.10.2018
> View attachment 504137



possible Quad launch ... next year.... ?


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

September 22, 2018

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## LKJ86

The range of YJ-XX taken by Type 055 DDG can reach 1000km!!!

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA



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## LKJ86



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## cirr

055 etc.






16.10.2018

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

Was this already posted? ... vi by78/SDF:

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## SME11B

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 507803
> 
> The range of YJ-XX taken by Type 055 DDG can reach 1000km!!!


Is that their tomahawk type missile?



LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 519489
> View attachment 519490
> View attachment 519491
> View attachment 519492


Is that smog in the picture?

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## rambro

SME11B said:


> Is that smog in the picture?



Either cloudy or Fog just like uk, always dull n grey

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## ozranger

SME11B said:


> Is that their tomahawk type missile?


Said to be a ballistic missile with a hypersonic glider warhead similar to the anti-ship model of the M20 ballistic missile family.


----------



## 星海军事

ozranger said:


> Said to be a ballistic missile with a hypersonic glider warhead similar to the anti-ship model of the M20 ballistic missile family.


From someone who claimed the 7th 071 to be "20,000t 075"?


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## ILC

星海军事 said:


> From someone who claimed the 7th 071 to be "20,000t 075"?


Do we have a hint when we could see the first images/sat view of the 1st type 075?


----------



## 星海军事

ILC said:


> Do we have a hint when we could see the first images/sat view of the 1st type 075?



I suppose we have to be patient since LHD is not the first priority to PLAN. It should also be taken in consider that small blocks will be hard to recognize until they are laid down and assembled. To be optimistic, we may have a peep at the first 075 a year later.

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## LKJ86



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## Deino



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## 055_destroyer

Deino said:


> View attachment 526757


I suspect the penant number is up on the first 055 and commission is near.


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## LKJ86

https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2517133&extra=page=1&mobile=2

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## lcloo

Large size pictures of latest 055 sea trial.

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## 055_destroyer

I really hope they can commission this beauty by year end. It will be massive disappointment if it did not happen this year.


----------



## JSCh

*China’s next-generation destroyer undergoes high-speed trial run*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2018/12/19 14:34:33



The PLA Navy's new destroyer, the Type 055, a 10,000-ton domestically designed and manufactured vessel, was launched at the Jiangnan Shipyard in East China's Shanghai on June 28, 2017. It is equipped with new anti-air, anti-missile, anti-ship and anti-submarine weapons. Photo: 81.cn

China's domestically made 10,000-ton class missile destroyer Type 055 recently underwent a high-speed test run, leading Chinese naval experts to believe the vessel has completed most of its trials and will go through weapons system tests before entering service in half a year's time.

The Type 055 was recently photographed sailing through the sea at a fast speed at an undisclosed location, cctv.com reported on Tuesday.

Wang Yunfei, a naval expert and retired People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy officer, told the Global Times on Wednesday that the goal of this sea trial was to test the destroyer's high speed sailing capability and the comprehensive coordination of its different systems.

"The Type 055 had previously tested its systems at a slower speed, but only in high speed can its overall performance be truly tested," Wang said.

The latest sea trial is already at a later stage of all of its sailing tests, Wang noted.

After conducting its first sea trial in August, the Type 055 was spotted on the sea several times, the cctv.com report said. The PLA Navy will soon have the first Type 055 in service, it said.

Wang said now that the warship has completed sailing-related tests, it still needs to conduct weapons and command system tests.

This process will take about half a year, after which the vessel will be delivered to the PLA Navy, Wang said.

China has already launched four Type 055s—two of them in Dalian, Northeast China's Liaoning Province and the other two in Shanghai. 

Wang said that after gaining experience from the first batch of Type 055s, China will develop upgraded versions.

Considering China needs to have about six aircraft carriers and multiple amphibious assault ships in the future, China is looking to have at least 10 Type 055s to form battle groups and escort these vessels, Wang said.

The 180-meter-long, 20-meter-wide destroyer will be equipped with 112 vertical launch missile cells capable of launching a combination of surface-to-air missiles, anti-ship cruise missiles, land-attack cruise missiles and anti-submarine missiles, media reported.

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## Deino

055_destroyer said:


> I really hope they can commission this beauty by year end. It will be massive disappointment if it did not happen this year.



Then most likely you will be disappointed, but IMO not due to dalay but an unrealistic exprectations.

I must admit I did not follow the ships trails but AFAIK this is only the second one I remember and even if I missed more I think it is not fully equipped yet, these are just builder's trails ... si IMO service entry already in 2018 is impossible.


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## cirr

*China’s next-generation destroyer undergoes high-speed trial run*

By Liu Xuanzun 

Source:Global Times 

Published: 2018/12/19 14:34:33





The PLA Navy's new destroyer, the Type 055, a 10,000-ton domestically designed and manufactured vessel, was launched at the Jiangnan Shipyard in East China's Shanghai on June 28, 2017. It is equipped with new anti-air, anti-missile, anti-ship and anti-submarine weapons. Photo: 81.cn


*China's domestically made 10,000-ton class missile destroyer Type 055 recently underwent a high-speed test run, leading Chinese naval experts to believe the vessel has completed most of its trials and will go through weapons system tests before entering service in half a year's time.*

The Type 055 was recently photographed sailing through the sea at a fast speed at an undisclosed location, cctv.com reported on Tuesday.

Wang Yunfei, a naval expert and retired People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy officer, told the Global Times on Wednesday that the goal of this sea trial was to test the destroyer's high speed sailing capability and the comprehensive coordination of its different systems.

"The Type 055 had previously tested its systems at a slower speed, but only in high speed can its overall performance be truly tested," Wang said.

The latest sea trial is already at a later stage of all of its sailing tests, Wang noted.

After conducting its first sea trial in August, the Type 055 was spotted on the sea several times, the cctv.com report said. The PLA Navy will soon have the first Type 055 in service, it said.

Wang said now that the warship has completed sailing-related tests, it still needs to conduct weapons and command system tests.

This process will take about half a year, after which the vessel will be delivered to the PLA Navy, Wang said.

China has already launched four Type 055s—two of them in Dalian, Northeast China's Liaoning Province and the other two in Shanghai. 

Wang said that after gaining experience from the first batch of Type 055s, China will develop upgraded versions.

Considering China needs to have about six aircraft carriers and multiple amphibious assault ships in the future, China is looking to have at least 10 Type 055s to form battle groups and escort these vessels, Wang said.

The 180-meter-long, 20-meter-wide destroyer will be equipped with 112 vertical launch missile cells capable of launching a combination of surface-to-air missiles, anti-ship cruise missiles, land-attack cruise missiles and anti-submarine missiles, media reported.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1132630.shtml

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## cirr

Modules of #7 and #8 055 appear to have surfaced at JN and DL.

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## LKJ86



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## 055_destroyer

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 529005


 Hope before 2018 ends.

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## cirr



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## Maxpane



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## 帅的一匹

终于轮到我们玩一把了，这口气憋了多少年。 It is just a begining.

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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> 终于轮到我们玩一把了，这口气憋了多少年。 It is just a begining.



2019 will prove to be another year of bumper harvest.

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## samsara

wanglaokan said:


> 终于轮到我们玩一把了，这口气憋了多少年。 It is just a begining.


Don't be relaxed yet, the Zumwalt ghosts will come after you if you do so…

And you won't be able to match its phenomenal $tag! Watch out!! Trump's great MAGA will re-ignite the Zumwalt dances!!

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## cirr

DDG 101 “*Nanchang*”

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## cirr

#2






making room for the launch of the 4th "052DL"(17th 052D)

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## Han Patriot

cirr said:


> DDG 101 “*Nanchang*”
> 
> View attachment 530507


Chinese ships look so sleek and smooth.

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## Deino

Three Type 055 DDG - and maybe 4 - together at Jiangnan??

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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/2540890490/4327020512893807

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Three Type 055 DDG - and maybe 4 - together at Jiangnan??
> 
> View attachment 531820



This one was PSed, the hull #5 is not launched yet.

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## chengdusudise

Han Patriot said:


> Chinese ships look so sleek and smooth.


it looks like a beauty but not a monster

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 534290

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## LKJ86

8th

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 535006



Is this the Z-20 mock-up, we've seen yesterday?


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## Han Patriot

LKJ86 said:


> 8th
> View attachment 535006


8 055s? Holy shit!


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Han Patriot said:


> 8 055s? Holy shit!



Gonna be about 40 or so eventually. China will be the dominant power come 2050.


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## Deino

undertakerwwefan said:


> Gonna be about 40 or so eventually. China will be the dominant power come 2050.



NO and maybe at best ... but reality is not your strength, isn't it?

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## ozranger

Deino said:


> NO and maybe at best ... but reality is not your strength, isn't it?



As there confirms to be 8 already, I think further 8 more in the 2nd batch for the next decade is quite realistic.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ozranger said:


> As there confirms to be 8 already, I think further 8 more in the 2nd batch for the next decade is quite realistic.



I think 16 Type 055 then they'll be switching to the much bigger and more advanced Type 058 which is like 20,000 tons.


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## Deino

ozranger said:


> As there confirms to be 8 already, I think further 8 more in the 2nd batch for the next decade is quite realistic.




Agree, but that would make 24 altogether with is still far from his claimed 40 .. and IMO as ridiculous as his claim that there are more than 60 J-20s already operational.


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## english_man

undertakerwwefan said:


> I think 16 Type 055 then they'll be switching to the much bigger and more advanced Type 058 which is like 20,000 tons.



Type 058?..........where did you here, or read this from? Do you really think the Chinese would build such a large surface combatant, in this day and age?. I mean it would be getting close to the Russians Kirov class battle cruisers!

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## Dante80

english_man said:


> Type 058?..........where did you here, or read this from? Do you really think the Chinese would build such a large surface combatant, in this day and age?. I mean it would be getting close to the Russians Kirov class battle cruisers!



We have seen in the past some hints about the Chinese working on a concept of an _Arsenal Class_ semi-submersible combatant, I'm not sure what happened to that. It would not be unrealistic though to think that PLAN _could_ field a combatant larger than Type 055 in the future. Applications do exist for it.


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## cirr

#7 and #8 are the first two ships of the second batch of 055.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cirr said:


> #7 and #8 are the first two ships of the second batch of 055.



#7 and #8 will the be first Type 055 ships to have the railgun to replace the original 130 mm main gun.

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## Dante80

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> #7 and #8 will the be first Type 055 ships to have the railgun to replace the original 130 mm main gun.



This is a pretty big announcement, especially since we have started seeing modules for those hulls. 
Where did you get that information?


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## ILC

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> #7 and #8 will the be first Type 055 ships to have the railgun to replace the original 130 mm main gun.


No, they won't.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Dante80 said:


> This is a pretty big announcement, especially since we have started seeing modules for those hulls.
> Where did you get that information?



From a staff member of the JN shipyard.

Since he was the first person who claimed that the first batch of the Type 055 ends at #6, then the second batch will consist another 6 ships.

Now with all the evidence on the table, it seems that his assertion was right.

When the railgun is on a test bed, then it means it is very close for the deployment, just like the Type 0346A radar before the deployment on the Type 052D was also spotted with a test bed. You can check the old threads from 2012.



ILC said:


> No, they won't.



Time will tell.

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## ILC

Fzgfzy's predictions for 2019:
Fzgfzy predicts that Railgun will be made smaller for active deployments. Do you think that current railgun which is being tested at sea right now, is ready? It hasn't been even made smaller yet, if we believe fzgfzy words. 
Type 055A is still on drawn board in his words. 
Railgun most likely needs IEP, type 055A is the IEP or even IFEP warshio, not the present 055.

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/plan-breaking-news-pics-videos.t7079/page-278#post-540470

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## ChineseTiger1986

ILC said:


> Fzgfzy's predictions for 2019:
> Fzgfzy predicts that Railgun will be made smaller for active deployments. Do you think that current railgun which is being tested at sea right now, is ready? It hasn't been even made smaller yet, if we believe fzgfzy words.
> Type 055A is still on drawn board in his words.
> Railgun most likely needs IEP, type 055A is the IEP or even IFEP warshio, not the present 055.
> 
> https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/plan-breaking-news-pics-videos.t7079/page-278#post-540470



I dunno, we shall see.

But Fzgfzy has missed a lot of predictions recently, and he is no longer considered as the most reliable source among the Chinese community.

When you missed one major prediction, your reputation gonna be harmed dearly.

Just look at POP3, before the EMALS, his words were considered as worthy as gold, and now most people don't consider him as a legend just because he did stand on the wrong side in regard of steam catapult vs EMALS.

Fzgfzy has a lot of loyal/dedicated fans among the CD community, but many other military enthusiasts are already starting to doubt his credibility.

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## Title1234

samsara said:


> Don't be relaxed yet, the Zumwalt ghosts will come after you if you do so…
> 
> And you won't be able to match its phenomenal $tag! Watch out!! Trump's great MAGA will re-ignite the Zumwalt dances!!


I never heard that from Trump.


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## cirr



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## ozranger

cirr said:


>



Comparing to Type 052D, it is quite fascinating that the Type 055 looks smaller than it actually is. Is that because of the bigger 130mm gun or something?


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## cirr

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 540820

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## LKJ86

cirr said:


>

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 545250
> View attachment 545251



Time to have the pennant number painted.

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## GS Zhou

cirr said:


> Time to have the pennant number painted.


Can we expect 055 to be shown in the April navy parade in Qingdao?


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## cirr

GS Zhou said:


> Can we expect 055 to be shown in the April navy parade in Qingdao?



Affirmative.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

The video of Type 055 DDG: https://m.weibo.cn/1895482303/4351336994613576

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## lcloo

Large format picture

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## LKJ86

lcloo said:


> Large format picture
> 
> View attachment 547616

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 548467




What does the banner say?


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## Ironborn

Deino said:


> What does the banner say?


Stay clear at least 50 meters from the ship.


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## cirr

23.03.2019

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## samsara

cirr said:


> 23.03.2019
> 
> View attachment 548902
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 548903


From Bltizo: _“I remember some people wondering why the *forward CIWS before had a base that had many edges that could act as a radar reflector. *Looks like the PLAN are aware of it.”_

And from Hyperwarp: _“It is also *more elevated* than previous ships.”

(bold emphasis is mine) _

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## LKJ86



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## samsara

cirr said:


> 23.03.2019
> 
> View attachment 548902
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 548903


Rick Joe tweeted on 2019-03-24:

_The lead 055 has *now covered the base of the forward CIWS*. I recall people wondering why the H/PJ-11 base of newly launched 055s *had so many edges (pic 3) as they'd reflect radar.*

Looks like the PLAN do have an eye for sensible details._

See the 3rd pic here (055, early edition) :






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1109669075259518976

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## samsara

cirr said:


> Time to have the pennant number painted.


Henri Kenhmann was reading you! Just today... 

_A few more months, normally, for this destroyer's head ship of Type 055 to be admitted into the active service... Photo via 436

*The hull number should be 101, named Nanchang 南昌*_

Nanchang, capital city of Jiangxi Province, the birthplace of PLA! 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1109843292995239936

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## cirr

samsara said:


> Henri Kenhmann was reading you! Just today...
> 
> _A few more months, normally, for this destroyer's head ship of Type 055 to be admitted into the active service... Photo via 436
> 
> *The hull number should be 101, named Nanchang 南昌*_
> 
> Nanchang, capital city of Jiangxi Province, the birthplace of PLA!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1109843292995239936

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## Deino

cirr said:


> View attachment 549552




Hopefully the 002 carrier will receive its number soon too.


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## samsara

cirr said:


> View attachment 549552


*The first ship of the Type 055 DDG is just receiving its number....*

_Rupprech Deino 2019.03.27 12:25_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1110774915542724608

_*The first battleship of Type 055 destroyer has its hull number painted*

OedoSoldier 2019.03.27 12:49

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1110780747789623296_

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

The video of Type 055 DDG: https://m.weibo.cn/5498220176/4356032618630601

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 552651




Which number is this?


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> Which number is this?


This one is in Dalian shipyard, so it is either #3 or #4 of the class (Dalian production #1 or #2).

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## 055_destroyer

The world most powerful warship enter service. Great!


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## Deino

055_destroyer said:


> The world most powerful warship enter service. Great!




The MOST??? ... are you sure?

With "one of" I would fully agree but so ...

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## Akasa

055_destroyer said:


> The world most powerful warship enter service. Great!





Deino said:


> The MOST??? ... are you sure?
> 
> With "one of" I would fully agree but so ...



Definitely not the most, for example the Bismark and Tirpitz were much more "powerful" in the traditional sense than the Type 055.


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## 055_destroyer

Akasa said:


> Definitely not the most, for example the Bismark and Tirpitz were much more "powerful" in the traditional sense than the Type 055.


Are you sure? Sure Bismark or Kirov battleship are bigger but their system are extremely outdated. 055 with unmatched dual band phased radar are unrivaled and those dinosaur warship wouldnt even last a few mins with 055 as it unleashed YJ-18 anti-warship missile to sink them.

055 destroyer as most powerful warship is absolutely correct. Even Alreigh Burke flight III is not going to rival it.

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## LKJ86



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## aziqbal

USN could only build 3 

By end of this year China will have 10 or so Type 055 under construction

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## LKJ86



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## ozranger

aziqbal said:


> USN could only build 3
> 
> By end of this year China will have 10 or so Type 055 under construction



They had to abandon Zumwalt as it's been so useless now. US navy didn't know the world can change so rapidly.

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## LKJ86

Hull 101

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

Slow-moving DL needs to get its act together.


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## LKJ86



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## Muslim Warrior

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 553492


What a beast .... If 055 in mass production .... Then what's China is developing for future?

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## 592257001

Muslim Warrior said:


> What a beast .... If 055 in mass production .... Then what's China is developing for future?


Design for the 055A is already being worked on. It's expected to host integrated electric propulsion, ASAT/midcourse ABMs, compact 33MJ railguns & directional energy weapons (lasers, microwave, etc.)

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 554100


Therefore the PLA Navy cannot be the third!


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## ozranger

Type 055 DDG has fully solid state, multi spectrum sensor arrays, which shows that the capability of upgrade by software and information fusion. While Zumwalt looks to have similar configuration, 055 has much bigger and powerful sensors, plus much more lethal ammunition. The very best super destroyer or cruiser in the current world.

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 548467

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## cirr



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## JSCh

*Type 055 destroyer: Symbol of Chinese Navy's development*
Updated 17:54, 20-Apr-2019
Yin Xiaoyang




_*Editor's note:* Yin Xiaoyang is a research fellow of POLY defense research center in China. The article reflects the author's opinion, and not necessarily the views of CGTN._

In the 70th anniversary of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy, people have been longing to see the debut of the latest 10,000-ton Type 055 destroyer with operational capability in combat formation. There are a very few naval forces in the 21st century which have developed warships in such great size, firepower and number.

The design of Type 055 has been finalized after two decades of rapid development and tests. As the first rate of capital ships for the PLA surface fleet and carrier group over the next 20 years, the warships are dedicated to sustaining the interest and enforcing the strategy of China in West Pacific and the open sea.

While the PLA Navy still attaches great importance to win a traditional maritime conflict, Type 055 is focused on surface combats as one of the most powerful vessels in the world.

And there are several aspects highlighting the importance of the Type 055 destroyer. The propulsive power is estimated generated by four gas turbines in a combined gas turbine and gas turbine arrangement. It is is the first class of current main combatant ship facilities with full gas turbine-power in China.

Besides, the primary armament are missiles carried in 112 universal vertical launch cells (VLS), representing the highest load of the missile of Chinese combatant ships. The universal cells allow simultaneous operations against multi-mission threats. By report, a diversity of missile types is accepted, including surface-to-air, anti-ship cruise, anti-submarine rocket and land-attack cruise.

And the electronics and sensor system of Type 055 has completely detached from the Russian-origin subsystems. The common air search, fire control and over-the-horizon targeting radar in previous classes are replaced by indigenous R&D electronics and integrated mast.

The deckhouse incorporates four active electronically scanned array (AESA) panels and Multifunction Integrated Radio Frequency Systems (MFIRFS). This system integrates a manifold of functions— such as radar, communications and electronic into a common electronic superstructure.



Two Type 055 guided-missile destroyers take water at a shipyard in Dalian, northeast China's Liaoning Province, July 3, 2018. /VCG Photo

What's more, for a vessel, larger displacement means higher endurance and self-sufficiency. With displacement at the 10,000-ton-level, Type 055 destroyer enables longer voyages than any other destroyers. Also, the sea keeping ability of the warships strengthened by their large displacement can help overcome harsher sea states with weapons and helicopter on board in operation.

The enlarged cabins allow carrying more armament and electronics, leading to a comprehensive functionality and improved crew habitability. All these advantages brought by large displacement vessels like Type 055 pave the way of Chinese Navy toward the ocean.

In the 1970s, China initiated the development of R&D Type 055 destroyers, which was then suspended due to a shortage of funds and technologies. Since then, Type 055 has been seen as the symbol that Chinese naval and defense technology would catch up with and surpass the world levels one day. During the past twenty years, the shipbuilding and defense industry of China has developed substantially.

Thanks to the employment of modular construction and pre-fabrication (i.e. prefabricated "blocks" built at different shipyards at the same time), Type 055 is the capital ship of the highest building speed in the world.

In the past, China typically employed the process of prototyping, test, modification and small-batch production for building destroyers and frigates. In contrast, Type 055 is built in batch production in Dalian and Shanghai simultaneously, which reflects China's tremendous strength in shipbuilding.

It is assured that in this naval parade, the world will witness that the ready-to-serve Type 055 destroyers have surpassed their 1970s ancestor in all aspects. Also, we will see Type 055 become the most powerful, effective and efficient combatant ships in the world for the next two decades.

_(If you want to contribute and have specific expertise, please contact us at opinions@cgtn.com.)_

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## Pakistani Fighter

JSCh said:


> *Type 055 destroyer: Symbol of Chinese Navy's development*
> Updated 17:54, 20-Apr-2019
> Yin Xiaoyang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Editor's note:* Yin Xiaoyang is a research fellow of POLY defense research center in China. The article reflects the author's opinion, and not necessarily the views of CGTN._
> 
> In the 70th anniversary of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy, people have been longing to see the debut of the latest 10,000-ton Type 055 destroyer with operational capability in combat formation. There are a very few naval forces in the 21st century which have developed warships in such great size, firepower and number.
> 
> The design of Type 055 has been finalized after two decades of rapid development and tests. As the first rate of capital ships for the PLA surface fleet and carrier group over the next 20 years, the warships are dedicated to sustaining the interest and enforcing the strategy of China in West Pacific and the open sea.
> 
> While the PLA Navy still attaches great importance to win a traditional maritime conflict, Type 055 is focused on surface combats as one of the most powerful vessels in the world.
> 
> And there are several aspects highlighting the importance of the Type 055 destroyer. The propulsive power is estimated generated by four gas turbines in a combined gas turbine and gas turbine arrangement. It is is the first class of current main combatant ship facilities with full gas turbine-power in China.
> 
> Besides, the primary armament are missiles carried in 112 universal vertical launch cells (VLS), representing the highest load of the missile of Chinese combatant ships. The universal cells allow simultaneous operations against multi-mission threats. By report, a diversity of missile types is accepted, including surface-to-air, anti-ship cruise, anti-submarine rocket and land-attack cruise.
> 
> And the electronics and sensor system of Type 055 has completely detached from the Russian-origin subsystems. The common air search, fire control and over-the-horizon targeting radar in previous classes are replaced by indigenous R&D electronics and integrated mast.
> 
> The deckhouse incorporates four active electronically scanned array (AESA) panels and Multifunction Integrated Radio Frequency Systems (MFIRFS). This system integrates a manifold of functions— such as radar, communications and electronic into a common electronic superstructure.
> 
> 
> 
> Two Type 055 guided-missile destroyers take water at a shipyard in Dalian, northeast China's Liaoning Province, July 3, 2018. /VCG Photo
> 
> What's more, for a vessel, larger displacement means higher endurance and self-sufficiency. With displacement at the 10,000-ton-level, Type 055 destroyer enables longer voyages than any other destroyers. Also, the sea keeping ability of the warships strengthened by their large displacement can help overcome harsher sea states with weapons and helicopter on board in operation.
> 
> The enlarged cabins allow carrying more armament and electronics, leading to a comprehensive functionality and improved crew habitability. All these advantages brought by large displacement vessels like Type 055 pave the way of Chinese Navy toward the ocean.
> 
> In the 1970s, China initiated the development of R&D Type 055 destroyers, which was then suspended due to a shortage of funds and technologies. Since then, Type 055 has been seen as the symbol that Chinese naval and defense technology would catch up with and surpass the world levels one day. During the past twenty years, the shipbuilding and defense industry of China has developed substantially.
> 
> Thanks to the employment of modular construction and pre-fabrication (i.e. prefabricated "blocks" built at different shipyards at the same time), Type 055 is the capital ship of the highest building speed in the world.
> 
> In the past, China typically employed the process of prototyping, test, modification and small-batch production for building destroyers and frigates. In contrast, Type 055 is built in batch production in Dalian and Shanghai simultaneously, which reflects China's tremendous strength in shipbuilding.
> 
> It is assured that in this naval parade, the world will witness that the ready-to-serve Type 055 destroyers have surpassed their 1970s ancestor in all aspects. Also, we will see Type 055 become the most powerful, effective and efficient combatant ships in the world for the next two decades.
> 
> _(If you want to contribute and have specific expertise, please contact us at opinions@cgtn.com.)_


Wish PN can buy some of these

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## samsara

JSCh said:


> *Type 055 destroyer: Symbol of Chinese Navy's development*
> Updated 17:54, 20-Apr-2019
> Yin Xiaoyang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Editor's note:* Yin Xiaoyang is a research fellow of POLY defense research center in China. The article reflects the author's opinion, and not necessarily the views of CGTN._
> 
> In the 70th anniversary of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy, people have been longing to see the debut of the latest 10,000-ton Type 055 destroyer with operational capability in combat formation. There are a very few naval forces in the 21st century which have developed warships in such great size, firepower and number.
> 
> The design of Type 055 has been finalized after two decades of rapid development and tests. As the first rate of capital ships for the PLA surface fleet and carrier group over the next 20 years, the warships are dedicated to sustaining the interest and enforcing the strategy of China in West Pacific and the open sea.
> 
> While the PLA Navy still attaches great importance to win a traditional maritime conflict, Type 055 is focused on surface combats as one of the most powerful vessels in the world.
> 
> And there are several aspects highlighting the importance of the Type 055 destroyer. The propulsive power is estimated generated by four gas turbines in a combined gas turbine and gas turbine arrangement. It is is the first class of current main combatant ship facilities with full gas turbine-power in China.
> 
> Besides, the primary armament are missiles carried in 112 universal vertical launch cells (VLS), representing the highest load of the missile of Chinese combatant ships. The universal cells allow simultaneous operations against multi-mission threats. By report, a diversity of missile types is accepted, including surface-to-air, anti-ship cruise, anti-submarine rocket and land-attack cruise.
> 
> And the electronics and sensor system of Type 055 has completely detached from the Russian-origin subsystems. The common air search, fire control and over-the-horizon targeting radar in previous classes are replaced by indigenous R&D electronics and integrated mast.
> 
> The deckhouse incorporates four active electronically scanned array (AESA) panels and Multifunction Integrated Radio Frequency Systems (MFIRFS). This system integrates a manifold of functions— such as radar, communications and electronic into a common electronic superstructure.
> 
> 
> 
> Two Type 055 guided-missile destroyers take water at a shipyard in Dalian, northeast China's Liaoning Province, July 3, 2018. /VCG Photo
> 
> What's more, for a vessel, larger displacement means higher endurance and self-sufficiency. With displacement at the 10,000-ton-level, Type 055 destroyer enables longer voyages than any other destroyers. Also, the sea keeping ability of the warships strengthened by their large displacement can help overcome harsher sea states with weapons and helicopter on board in operation.
> 
> The enlarged cabins allow carrying more armament and electronics, leading to a comprehensive functionality and improved crew habitability. All these advantages brought by large displacement vessels like Type 055 pave the way of Chinese Navy toward the ocean.
> 
> In the 1970s, China initiated the development of R&D Type 055 destroyers, which was then suspended due to a shortage of funds and technologies. Since then, Type 055 has been seen as the symbol that Chinese naval and defense technology would catch up with and surpass the world levels one day. During the past twenty years, the shipbuilding and defense industry of China has developed substantially.
> 
> Thanks to the employment of modular construction and pre-fabrication (i.e. prefabricated "blocks" built at different shipyards at the same time), Type 055 is the capital ship of the highest building speed in the world.
> 
> In the past, China typically employed the process of prototyping, test, modification and small-batch production for building destroyers and frigates. In contrast, Type 055 is built in batch production in Dalian and Shanghai simultaneously, which reflects China's tremendous strength in shipbuilding.
> 
> It is assured that in this naval parade, the world will witness that the ready-to-serve Type 055 destroyers have surpassed their 1970s ancestor in all aspects. Also, we will see Type 055 become the most powerful, effective and efficient combatant ships in the world for the next two decades.
> 
> _(If you want to contribute and have specific expertise, please contact us at opinions@cgtn.com.)_


*“… Also, we will see Type 055 become the most powerful, effective and efficient combatant ships in the world for the next two decades.”*

I rarely see the CGTN uses such superlative words to describe a quality or capability. Thus Type 055 is really significant and will be reigning the open seas for long to come… in particular when it comes in quantity of many tens.

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## 055_destroyer

samsara said:


> *“… Also, we will see Type 055 become the most powerful, effective and efficient combatant ships in the world for the next two decades.”*
> 
> I rarely see the CGTN uses such superlative words to describe a quality or capability. Thus Type 055 is really significant and will be reigning the open seas for long to come… in particular when it comes in quantity of many tens.


If its good, it will be mention as it is. 055 destroyer is just like the Kirov battlecruiser of Soviet Union. When launched, it is hailed as the most powerful surface warship in the world.

Now its Chinese turn. The 346A dual band phased array radar is powerful and unrivaled. The next nearest rival will be Zumwalt radar system but Zumwalt lack the fire power of 055 and therefore is a half done job.

055 with latest radar, 112 VLS universal and 130mm gun is currently invincible if one on one taking on any surface warship.

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## luciferdd



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## lcloo

LOL.. beat me by seconds. A larger photo.....

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## 055_destroyer

lcloo said:


> LOL.. beat me by seconds. A larger photo.....
> View attachment 555106


Penant number 101 南昌号

*中华神盾*

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## Pakistani Fighter

055_destroyer said:


> If its good, it will be mention as it is. 055 destroyer is just like the Kirov battlecruiser of Soviet Union. When launched, it is hailed as the most powerful surface warship in the world.
> 
> Now its Chinese turn. The 346A dual band phased array radar is powerful and unrivaled. The next nearest rival will be Zumwalt radar system but Zumwalt lack the fire power of 055 and therefore is a half done job.
> 
> 055 with latest radar, 112 VLS universal and 130mm gun is currently invincible if one on one taking on any surface warship.


Hope Pakistan Navy buys it


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## lcloo

055_destroyer said:


> Penant number 101 南昌号
> 
> *中华神盾*



101 南昌号 Nanchang is fit to claim the pennant number 101 which was the number of the first destroyer in PRC navy 101 Anshan 鞍山号。

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## cirr

lcloo said:


> 101 南昌号 Nanchang is fit to claim the pennant number 101 which was the number of the first destroyer in PRC navy 101 Anshan 鞍山号。
> View attachment 555110



We have come a long, long way, but we still have a long, long way to go.

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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/5653188515/4363991465772752

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1120307207776559106


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## Char

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Hope Pakistan Navy buys it



It's a matter of time.

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## Deino

Char said:


> It's a matter of time.




Never ever ... the 055 is some sort of overkill, just think about which navies operate such a ship?


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## Pakistani Fighter

Deino said:


> Never ever ... the 055 is some sort of overkill, just think about which navies operate such a ship?


Our Navy is already too weak. We should operate it


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## Deino

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Our Navy is already too weak. We should operate it




Oh come on ... yes I know following some here Pakistan should introduce J-16 and J-20, they should purchase H-6K, the Liaoning once the 003 carrier is operational ans surely also the 055. But who should pay for all these wet-dreams??

Therefore Pakistan should stay realistic ...

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## Pakistani Fighter

Deino said:


> Oh come on ... yes I know following some here Pakistan should introduce J-16 and J-20, they should purchase H-6K, the Liaoning once the 003 carrier is operational ans surely also the 055. But who should pay for all these wet-dreams??
> 
> Therefore Pakistan should stay realistic ...


If we are thinking of buying warships or Mig 35s from russia then we shud avoid them and look for this ship


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## samsara

From OedoSoldier on 21 April:

*The very first Commander of the head warship 101 Nanchang Type 055 DDG*

_*Captain Gao Ke (43), commander of the first Type 055 large destroyer*, transferred from Maritime Engineering Major of Tianjin University of Technology to Dalian Naval Academy. He graduated in 2000. Later, from the deputy navigation chief to the captain. He has experiences working on seven types of warships including aircraft carrier, and has received training courses in aviation. Participated in joint exercises, Somali piracy countermeasures dispatch, Yemeni residents rescue operations, and other operations._








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1119806545183870978

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## cirr



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

The hypersonic AShM YJ-XX for Type 055 destroyer, which can break through the defense of SM-3 Block IIA and SM-6 Block IA, has finished the test on land.

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## clibra

It's possible in future, but take time.

I think 052D is very suitable for PN.
052D is powerful, it's radar and electronics capability is best among the world navy(not include the monster 101 NanChang of PLAN), even better than AB IIA of US navy. 
It's weapon system is also the best, same type of VLS and CIWS and RAM and GUN with 055, just less in ammunition capacity, considering tonnage difference of 7K and 12K, 
And it's quality guaranteed and very stable and reliable, dozens of them have been built by Chinese shipyard.
Finally, it's more affordable, price is only 60% of 055.

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## LKJ86



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## The Ronin



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## lcloo

#101 bow deck UVLS 2019 April 23rd



.


Type 052D compares with type 055

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

A new awesome video of Type 055 destroyer: https://m.weibo.cn/5498220176/4364935385132622

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## cirr

055 #2(*DDG 102 "Lhasa"*) and 052DL #1(*DDG 156 "Zibo"*?)

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## samsara

*The future armament for Type 055 DDG: Ship-launched Hypersonic “YJ-XX“ missile, an HGV/AShBM type weapon, designed to defeat the USA's AEGIS Missile Defense System

From Klon at SDF:*

*YANKEESAMA:*
_In his public number "Asian Railway Station", Chief Railway Officer Xia mentioned numerous times the Hawk-XX hypersonic anti-ship missile (which Shi Lao suggested many times in his public number "Hu Yao Shi Lao"), whose penetration targets are very clear: breaking through the defense of the latest generation of "standard" series missiles of the US Army, SM-3 Block IIA and SM-6 Block IA. At present, this type of anti-ship missile has been launched by land telemetry missile, and will soon become the "shotgun" of Model 055 against the sea.
_





*Then from Bltizo also at SDF:*

For those interested in the original source, Yankeesama's WeChat blog:
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/p0pTQbWP6vEkI7b9-rVpHQ

Claims a hypersonic AShM "YJ-XX" meant for 055 has done land tests

*And the specific passage talking about YJ-XX:*
席亚洲火车长在他的公众号“亚洲火车总站”中曾无数次提到过鹰击-XX型高超音速反舰导弹（施佬在他的公众号“胡诌施佬”中也有过多次暗示），该型导弹的突防指标要求非常明确：突破美军最新一代“标准”系列导弹——SM-3 Block IIA和SM-6 Block IA的防御。目前该型反舰导弹已经进行了陆上遥测弹发射测试，即将成为055型对海打击的“撒手锏”。

*Basically he talks about YJ-XX being tested on land and how it is a hypersonic weapon meant to be launched from Type 055 DDG and designed to be capable of defeating SAMs like SM-3 Blk IIA and SM-6 Blk IA.*

We've heard rumblings of YJ-XX in the past. I'm convinced it's most likely an HGV/AShBM type weapon, which would make sense for why Yankeesama mentions SM-3 rather than merely SM-6. Of course, *we've seen this slide in the presentation a few years ago* which directly refers to a ship launched hypersonic/AShBM type weapon.






And from Henri Kenhmann (East Pendulum) on 24 April:

_“The puzzle pieces begin to gather around the Chinese hypersonic anti-ship missile.”_


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1120961400547844096
Note: I just realized that *Rick Joe* (real name; now writes for The Diplomat occasionally) may have been using the nick "*Bltizo*" in SDF judging from the posts above by the two  Hahaha, I just missed to note it earlier.

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## samsara

*Type 055 vs Type 052D and 052DG (Extended version) — Size Comparison*

From Henri Kenhmann (East Pendulum) on 26 April:

_The size difference between a *Type 052D*, at the top, and a *Type 055*, which has a size of *nearly twice as large* as the first one._







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1121779183246405632
And from Rick Joe on 27 April:

_This picture really shows the difference in *length and overall topside volume* between *055 and 052DG*._







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1122068977834790913

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## serenity

Hypersonic penetration and ballistic missile launched guided warheads are already a few years old in service. The newest things which are better are already being tried. Last generation of equipment is getting leaked now. Since 1990s we know the only way to defeat air defense is hypersonic from close to sea level and from top attack. Other weapons are more imaginative but very unproven.

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## samsara

From Rick Joe on 23 April:

Supposedly this is a *brochure* from the PLAN review today about *lead 055, DDG 101 Nanchang*.

*180m length* is what we all measured.

*23m beam*? Seems wider than I expected.

Standard displacement >11,000 tons sounds sensible. Would suggest a *full displacement 12,000-13,000 tons*.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1120594273227821056

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## lcloo

delete


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## cirr

samsara said:


> *The future armament for Type 055 DDG: Ship-launched Hypersonic “YJ-XX“ missile, an HGV/AShBM type weapon, designed to defeat the USA's AEGIS Missile Defense System
> 
> From Klon at SDF:*
> 
> *YANKEESAMA:*
> _In his public number "Asian Railway Station", Chief Railway Officer Xia mentioned numerous times the Hawk-XX hypersonic anti-ship missile (which Shi Lao suggested many times in his public number "Hu Yao Shi Lao"), whose penetration targets are very clear: breaking through the defense of the latest generation of "standard" series missiles of the US Army, SM-3 Block IIA and SM-6 Block IA. At present, this type of anti-ship missile has been launched by land telemetry missile, and will soon become the "shotgun" of Model 055 against the sea.
> _
> View attachment 556447
> 
> 
> *Then from Bltizo also at SDF:*
> 
> For those interested in the original source, Yankeesama's WeChat blog:
> https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/p0pTQbWP6vEkI7b9-rVpHQ
> 
> Claims a hypersonic AShM "YJ-XX" meant for 055 has done land tests
> 
> *And the specific passage talking about YJ-XX:*
> 席亚洲火车长在他的公众号“亚洲火车总站”中曾无数次提到过鹰击-XX型高超音速反舰导弹（施佬在他的公众号“胡诌施佬”中也有过多次暗示），该型导弹的突防指标要求非常明确：突破美军最新一代“标准”系列导弹——SM-3 Block IIA和SM-6 Block IA的防御。目前该型反舰导弹已经进行了陆上遥测弹发射测试，即将成为055型对海打击的“撒手锏”。
> 
> *Basically he talks about YJ-XX being tested on land and how it is a hypersonic weapon meant to be launched from Type 055 DDG and designed to be capable of defeating SAMs like SM-3 Blk IIA and SM-6 Blk IA.*
> 
> We've heard rumblings of YJ-XX in the past. I'm convinced it's most likely an HGV/AShBM type weapon, which would make sense for why Yankeesama mentions SM-3 rather than merely SM-6. Of course, *we've seen this slide in the presentation a few years ago* which directly refers to a ship launched hypersonic/AShBM type weapon.
> 
> View attachment 556446
> 
> 
> And from Henri Kenhmann (East Pendulum) on 24 April:
> 
> _“The puzzle pieces begin to gather around the Chinese hypersonic anti-ship missile.”_
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1120961400547844096
> Note: I just realized that *Rick Joe* (real name; now writes for The Diplomat occasionally) may have been using the nick "*Bltizo*" in SDF judging from the posts above by the two  Hahaha, I just missed to note it earlier.



There are two "known" HGV/AShBMs, the YJ-20 and the YJ-21.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA



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## samsara

From OedoSoldier on 02 May:

_The chief design engineer of the Type 055 destroyer came out with the book "*Destroyer Concept Design*". The book cover is a kind of design proposal for the Type 055 DDG._






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1123862278158286848

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Pakistani Fighter

Come on Pakistan Navy. Atleast buy four of Them


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## LKJ86



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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1125029871669743616

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Type 055 and Type 052D

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## cirr



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## JSCh

*Type 055 destroyer ‘pillar’ of North China Sea fleet: report*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/5/26 19:53:40
Destroyer ‘pillar’ of North China Sea fleet



The guided-missile destroyer _Nanchang_ of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy takes part in a naval parade staged to mark the 70th founding anniversary of the PLA Navy on the sea off Qingdao, east China's Shandong Province, on April 23, 2019. Photo: Xinhua

China's first 10,000-ton-class Type 055 destroyer _Nanchang_ is reportedly joining the North China Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army Navy, a move that Chinese military experts hailed as crucial to the fleet's combat capability.

They also predicted that other Type 055s will also be commissioned into the East China Sea and South China Sea fleets.

_Nanchang_ made a brief appearance in an introduction video released by the North China Sea Fleet on Thursday afternoon.

Although the video did not elaborate, Weihutang, a column on military affairs affiliated with China Central Television, reported Sunday that the warship would likely join the North China Sea Fleet and become "one of the pillars to the fleet's combat capability."

The first Type 055 could be commissioned into the North China Sea Fleet as it can form an aircraft carrier combat group around the carrier _Liaoning_, Li Jie, a Beijing-based naval expert, told the Global Times on Sunday.

_Nanchang_ could serve as lead escort to _Liaoning_, which is based in Qingdao, East China's Shandong Province, Li noted.

Another reason behind the naval vessel's potential commissioning in the North China Sea Fleet was that China has already commissioned other advanced warships in the East China Sea and South China Sea fleets.

Deploying the first Type 055 destroyer to the North China Sea Fleet balances up the allocation of military resources, according to Li.

With a strong air defense capability, _Nanchang_ could protect the Chinese capital region from warplanes or missile attacks in the Yellow Sea and Bohai Sea areas, analysts pointed out.

Future Type 055s will likely also join the South China and East China fleets, Li expected, as the US have frequently sent warships to the South China Sea and across the Taiwan Straits to cause stirs under the excuse of freedom of navigation recently.

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## 055_destroyer

JSCh said:


> *Type 055 destroyer ‘pillar’ of North China Sea fleet: report*
> By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/5/26 19:53:40
> Destroyer ‘pillar’ of North China Sea fleet
> 
> 
> 
> The guided-missile destroyer _Nanchang_ of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy takes part in a naval parade staged to mark the 70th founding anniversary of the PLA Navy on the sea off Qingdao, east China's Shandong Province, on April 23, 2019. Photo: Xinhua
> 
> China's first 10,000-ton-class Type 055 destroyer _Nanchang_ is reportedly joining the North China Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army Navy, a move that Chinese military experts hailed as crucial to the fleet's combat capability.
> 
> They also predicted that other Type 055s will also be commissioned into the East China Sea and South China Sea fleets.
> 
> _Nanchang_ made a brief appearance in an introduction video released by the North China Sea Fleet on Thursday afternoon.
> 
> Although the video did not elaborate, Weihutang, a column on military affairs affiliated with China Central Television, reported Sunday that the warship would likely join the North China Sea Fleet and become "one of the pillars to the fleet's combat capability."
> 
> The first Type 055 could be commissioned into the North China Sea Fleet as it can form an aircraft carrier combat group around the carrier _Liaoning_, Li Jie, a Beijing-based naval expert, told the Global Times on Sunday.
> 
> _Nanchang_ could serve as lead escort to _Liaoning_, which is based in Qingdao, East China's Shandong Province, Li noted.
> 
> Another reason behind the naval vessel's potential commissioning in the North China Sea Fleet was that China has already commissioned other advanced warships in the East China Sea and South China Sea fleets.
> 
> Deploying the first Type 055 destroyer to the North China Sea Fleet balances up the allocation of military resources, according to Li.
> 
> With a strong air defense capability, _Nanchang_ could protect the Chinese capital region from warplanes or missile attacks in the Yellow Sea and Bohai Sea areas, analysts pointed out.
> 
> Future Type 055s will likely also join the South China and East China fleets, Li expected, as the US have frequently sent warships to the South China Sea and across the Taiwan Straits to cause stirs under the excuse of freedom of navigation recently.


China need a strong south sea fleet. That shall be the priority.

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## S10

055_destroyer said:


> China need a strong south sea fleet. That shall be the priority.


North Sea fleet has the oldest ships in the entire PLAN. They need newer ships against Japan and South Korea.

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## samsara

Worry not. Each fleet will get its fair share pretty soon. Don't you all see the Chinese shipyards churn out plenty of new DDGs this year? And I don't see anything slower next year and beyond, more likely we'll witness more high quality outputs come into scene  

Keep on watching and do the tally 

But that's just the very natural way to make up in playing catch-up game... if China doesn't come out with the higher gear, how can she ever level up or even possibly farther away one day???

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## Deino

A Type 055 DDG at Jiangnan ... Probably or highly likely it is Jiangnan's unit #2

image via by78/SDF

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## obj 705A

IMO seeing as how China is apparently producing a total of 5 destroyers per year if I'm not mistaken (I think there was an article by one of our members regarding the current rate of production of DDGs, 2 type 055, 3 type 052D), then economicaly its totally feasible for China to produce 4 type 055 each year and drop any plans for a type 052E and might actually cost less than building 2 055 & 3 052D since the 055 costs 50% more than the 052D so the price of 4 055 = (2 055+3 052D) but we have to take into account that the unit price of a weapon becomes smaller when it is produced in greater numbers.

if China does build 4 large destroyers instead of the current 3 small plus 2 large destroyers then China should drop any plans for more frigates, not only will this help save some money but also there is just no need for more frigates after all with my previous suggestion of building nothing but 055s China would have nearly a 100 surface combatant by 2030 mostly destroyers (24 052D, 6 052C, 36 055, 30 054A).

I believe the reason why China was building frigates instead of destroyers wasnt just the economy but also because they needed to get as many ships as fast as possible to close the gap with the US but that is not necesary any more, if China does aquire the 100 surface combatant fleet by 2030 then even if John Mccain got out of his grave and ruled the US he still wouldnt dare to face China even if the PLA intiates the Liberation of Taiwan, as for China's neighbours (ie: Japan, SK etc..) they are nothing to worry about once they look at a PLAN comparable in size to say 70% of that of the USN then they wont even dare to fire a single bullet in any island dispute, on the contrary Japan & SK will have nothing but respect for China because unfortunatly as the US has shown respect is best earned through fear, Im not suggesting that China should mimic the US & start waging wars left right & center but just the presence of a large Chinese navy composed of nothing but DDGs, SSNs, CVNs etc will make them respect their big neighbour, patroling the Chinese coast would be done by corvettes and patroling the SCS could be done with a quarter of the suggested DDG fleet.

in the far future after the unification with Taiwan is achieved (wether its done peacefully or through force) the rate of production of DDGs should be reduced to 3 per year while still not building any frigates to save money and direct it at economic development, if at that point the US would still want to waste its money on weapons then so be it, just because the US plans to build frigates doesnt mean China should continue building Frigates.

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## JSCh

*China’s new Type 055 destroyer among best in the world: experts*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/6/4 18:28:40



Chinese Navy Type 055 destroyer _Nanchang_ (101) joins the naval parade to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy in Qingdao, East China's Shandong Province on April 23. Photo: VCG

Accompanied by marching music and tearing waves, a huge warship with the hull number 101 sailed into view out of heavy fog during the maritime parade on April 23 in Qingdao, East China's Shandong Province to celebrate the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy's 70th anniversary.

Those not lucky enough to experience this at the scene and were eagerly waiting to see it on television were disappointed when state broadcaster China Central Television was unable to provide a live feed of the parade, possibly due to the bad weather and sea conditions. But that did not stop them from enjoying picture reports that arrived a few minutes later, when they saw their long-anticipated expectation become a reality.

Chinese military enthusiasts have been dreaming for decades to see China have a 10,000-ton-class destroyer. Finally, the first domestically developed Type 055 _Nanchang_ made its parade debut as a special birthday present to the PLA Navy, as the warship will reportedly join its North China Sea Fleet.

Between 1840 and 1949, China suffered more than 470 invasions by foreign powers from the sea. With the help of the Type 055 destroyer, a warship described by Chinese military experts as world class, fewer foreign hostile forces will have the ability to repeat such attacks.

*Strong firepower*

With a displacement of more than 10,000 tons, the Type 055 can carry more weapons and equipment than any other Chinese destroyer.

The warship has eight eight-unit vertical launch systems (VLS) in the front deck and six eight-unit VLS in the middle, a total of 112 VLS units, the most among Chinese destroyers, reported Ordnance Industry Science Technology, a Xi'an-based periodical on the national defense industry.

By comparison, China's Type 052D destroyer has only 64, the US' Arleigh Burke-class destroyer has 96, and the US' Ticonderoga-class cruiser has 122, according to media reports.

These VLS units use the latest standard design of the PLA Navy, giving them both hot launch and cold launch abilities, the Ordnance Industry Science Technology report said. A hot launch means a missile ignites in its cell, and a cold launch means a missile is ejected from the launch cell before it ignites.

Missiles armed within the VLS units include air defense missiles, anti-ship missiles and anti-submarine missiles, according to the report. Some say that the ship may also have land-attack missiles.

In the air defense department, the ship is expected to be installed with missiles including HHQ-9B long-range air defense missiles and HQ-16B mid-range air defense missiles, Ordnance Industry Science Technology reported, noting that it could also be equipped with a type of mid-close-range surface-to-air missile developed from the DK-10 missile. With regards to warship-to-warship combat, the Type 055 could be equipped with YJ-18 anti-ship missiles, the report said.

This type of missile can fly at high subsonic speed upon launch, but accelerate to between Mach 2.5 and Mach 3 when approaching its target. This design keeps the missile light and far-reaching, while also giving the enemy as little reaction time as possible, the report said, noting that the YJ-18 carries a heavy explosive warhead, which, combined with the enormous kinetic energy from the fast speed, can severely damage a warship with tens of thousands of tons of displacement with only one strike.

Although anti-submarine assault is not the Type 055's main mission objective, it is likely equipped with Y-8 anti-submarine missiles and torpedoes. The warship is also equipped with an advanced sonar system and can carry medium-to large-sized anti-submarine helicopters on board, according to the report, which pointed out that the helicopters, missiles and torpedoes could form a three-layer defense web against even advanced nuclear-powered submarines.

The main gun of the warship seems to be an improved version of the 130 millimeter single-barreled H/PJ45A-130-1, which could be found on the Type 052D, Ordnance Industry Science Technology said. The gun can shoot 40 shells a minute, and a normal shell can travel 30 kilometers, while a rocket-propelled guided shell could hit targets even farther and more accurately, the report said.

The ship is also equipped with a Type 1130 close-in weapon system that can shoot tens of thousands of bullets per minute to neutralize incoming missiles. It also has a 24-unit HHQ-10 close-range anti-missile system that can effectively intercept supersonic anti-ship missiles, according to the report.

With such strong firepower, the Type 055 can either serve as a powerful escort to an aircraft carrier, or lead a flotilla sailing across the globe, as it also has very long operational range, Xu Guangyu, a senior consultant at the China Arms Control and Disarmament Association, told the Global Times.

"It is no inferior to Aegis ships like [the US'] Arleigh Burke-class destroyers and Ticonderoga-class cruisers. By comparison, the _Nanchang_ is the best in Asia, and can be considered world class," Xu noted.

A Chinese military expert who asked not to be named told the Global Times that the Type 055 is also equipped with very advanced radar and electronic control systems, which allow it to make the best of these weapons.

*Future potential*

With the _Nanchang_ joining the PLA naval service, more Type 055s are being manufactured. A second one was launched in April 2018 in Shanghai, while the third and fourth ones were launched in July 2018 in Dalian, Northeast China's Liaoning Province, and more are expected to come, media reported.

Military observers say that the Type 055 might see variants in the future that could carry China's futuristic electromagnetic railgun, which can shoot hypersonic projectiles at Mach 7.

It might also upgrade its arsenal to serve as an antiballistic missile platform, the anonymous expert said.

"The Type 055 has huge room for upgrades, so I expect it to bring more surprises in the future," he said.

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## lcloo

Dalian 4x type 055 update.

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## JSCh



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## JSCh



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## tower9

lcloo said:


> Dalian 4x type 055 update.
> 
> View attachment 565220



China has an incredible shipbuilding industrial capacity. It was only a matter of time before they converted this capability to churning out a massive navy.

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## lcloo

No photo, but the news on Internet is that the second 055 from JNCX has began sea trial 2 or 3 days ago.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1147843186250829827

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## lcloo

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1147843186250829827


English translation:-
We notice that the phrase "war is not far away" is beginning to appear more and more often in Chinese public opinion, both in the media and in the perception of the people expressed on social networks. Here seems to be the 2nd Type 055 in sea trial.

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## 055_destroyer

lcloo said:


> English translation:-
> We notice that the phrase "war is not far away" is beginning to appear more and more often in Chinese public opinion, both in the media and in the perception of the people expressed on social networks. Here seems to be the 2nd Type 055 in sea trial.


Can it be a reuse of first 055 on trial at sea video?


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## samsara

lcloo said:


> English translation:-
> We notice that the phrase "war is not far away" is beginning to appear more and more often in Chinese public opinion, both in the media and in the perception of the people expressed on social networks. Here seems to be the 2nd Type 055 in sea trial.


And Henri Kenhmann also added one refined Chinese classic saying as follows:

*《司马法》曰 :「國雖大,好戰必亡; 天下雖安,忘戰必危。」*
*
Sima Fa said: “Although the country is big, belligerent will die; although the world is safe, forgetting the war will be dangerous.”
*
_Sima Fa or the “Methods of Sima”, also called “Sima Rangju’s Art of War”, one of the Seven Military Classics of ancient China Wujing Qishu 武经七书, written by Sima Rangju 司马穰苴_

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## lcloo

055_destroyer said:


> Can it be a reuse of first 055 on trial at sea video?


I cannot confirm, but the message is "The second type 055 is in sea trial now.", and that is more relevance.

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## lcloo

JNCX latest photo with DDG101 and type 055 #2 and a type 052D.

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## monitor

The PLAN Type 055 DDG #101 'Nanchang' is indeed back at the Yard. (Image via by78/SDF)

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

A video of Type 055 DDG:
https://m.weibo.cn/3263443660/4401098028585344

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

According to Henri K. and East Pendulum, the second Type 055 has resumed a new set of trials.
(via Tam/SDF)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1158294245465190402

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## LKJ86



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## obj 705A

does any one know the length of the VLS of the type 055?
are all VLS of the 9 meter variant? or do they still use the 7 meter & the 3.3 meter variants?

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## smooth manifold



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## IblinI

So looking forward for the "YJ-21" hypersonic anti-ship ballistic missile.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## obj 705A

A while ago I asked about the length of the VLS cell wether they are all 9 meter in length or not, needless to say no one seems to know, personally I tend to believe with absolute certainty that all of the 112 VLS cells are 9 meters in length, let us take the type 052C as example , the type 052C has 48 cells all of which are long enough to hold the HHQ-9 , the HHQ-9 is 6.8 meters in length , I don't see any reason why all the VLS of the Type 055 which is double the size of the 052C won't be 2 meters longer than that of 052C, therefore it would be safer for us to assume that all cells are 9 meter long unless if we get a visual confirmation that they are shorter or a confirmation from a well respected engineer involved in the project, all other leaks from anonymous sources on Twitter & Weibo that say they are shorter than 9 meters should be regarded as worthless.


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## LKJ86



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## waja2000

obj 705A said:


> A while ago I asked about the length of the VLS cell wether they are all 9 meter in length or not, needless to say no one seems to know, personally I tend to believe with absolute certainty that all of the 112 VLS cells are 9 meters in length, let us take the type 052C as example , the type 052C has 48 cells all of which are long enough to hold the HHQ-9 , the HHQ-9 is 6.8 meters in length , I don't see any reason why all the VLS of the Type 055 which is double the size of the 052C won't be 2 meters longer than that of 052C, therefore it would be safer for us to assume that all cells are 9 meter long unless if we get a visual confirmation that they are shorter or a confirmation from a well respected engineer involved in the project, all other leaks from anonymous sources on Twitter & Weibo that say they are shorter than 9 meters should be regarded as worthless.



052C using 7 meter version standard VLS system. for detail spec, obviously all china military asset and hardware is keep secret. if lucky some basic spec will be know.


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## LKJ86

September 1, 2019

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 577097








---

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## LKJ86

Via @核子可乐真好喝 from Weibo

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## 055_destroyer

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 577629
> 
> Via @核子可乐真好喝 from Weibo


Will it be commission by end of this year?


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## LKJ86

Via @热武器时代的爱情故事 from Weibo

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## lcloo

CG.

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## LKJ86

Via @_老年_ from Weibo

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## Deino

Via the SDF: 

According to this tweet, the fifth 055 has been launched.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1172520291278262273

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## LKJ86

125年前的今天，1894年9月17日，中日甲午海战爆发！




Via @金陵上空的鹰 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @浙中指挥长 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 579818
> 
> Via @浙中指挥长 from Weibo










Via @浩汉-红鲨RedShark from Weibo


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## LKJ86

Via @浩汉-红鲨RedShark from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @JC边条翼 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## Deino



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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> View attachment 581691


PSed


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## truthseeker2010

Is there any video of 101, except for launching and the parade?
@LKJ86 @Deino


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## LKJ86

Via www.haohanfw.com

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## LKJ86

Via @捣蛋就对 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @热武器时代的爱情 from Weibo

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## lcloo

101 with helicopter.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> 101 with helicopter.
> 
> View attachment 593374




Another one, but it looks like a mock up

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## waja2000

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 586135
> 
> Via @捣蛋就对 from Weibo



I dream maybe dalian shipyard will break other record , launch 4 war ship at same time ....

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## GS Zhou



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## bahadur999

*China's 10,000 ton-class destroyer equipped with long-range land-attack missiles*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/12/22 22:53:12
2






The guided-missile destroyer _Nanchang_ of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy takes part in a naval parade staged to mark the 70th founding anniversary of the PLA Navy on the sea off Qingdao, east China's Shandong Province, on April 23, 2019. (Photo: Xinhua)

China's latest 10,000 ton-class guided missile destroyer, the Type 055, is capable of launching long-range land-attack cruise missiles, the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy revealed as experts said on Sunday the new weapon could let the destroyer launch more precise attacks against land targets at greater range.

Introducing the vast and complicated arsenal at its disposal, the PLA Navy said on China's Twitter-like social platform Sina Weibo that the service operates not only vessels, but also submarine-launched intercontinental ballistic missiles with strategic missile submarines and long-range land-attack cruise missiles with 10,000 ton-class guided missile destroyer, despite them also being the main battle equipment of the PLA Rocket Force.

China displayed its first Type 055 destroyer, the _Nanchang_, in April at the fleet review of the PLA Navy's 70th anniversary celebration in Qingdao, East China's Shandong Province.

As China's first type of 10,000 ton-class destroyer, the Type 055 has 112 vertical launch missile cells capable of launching a combination of surface-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles and anti-submarine missiles, according to media reports. 

While military observers have been speculating the ship was capable of launching land-attack missiles, the Navy's Weibo post confirmed the speculation.

The Navy's post did not elaborate on the designation or specifications of the long-range land-attack cruise missile, and went on to introduce the Navy's J-10 and J-11 fighter jets that are also operated by the Air Force, as well as Z-8 and Z-9 helicopters, amphibious armored vehicles and howitzers that are also used by the Army.

The Chinese Navy has formed a complete system with submarine troops, surface vessel troops, aviation troops, marines and coastal defense troops, as the five sub-branches use a wide selection of different weapons to become as efficient as possible, an anonymous military expert told the Global Times on Sunday.

Long-range land-attack cruise missiles will allow destroyers to launch more powerful precision strikes on land targets compared to main guns, which have a lower range and are less accurate, the expert said.

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## lcloo

Two more launched today. 

Edit: one type 055, and one type 052DG.

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## samsara

lcloo said:


> Two more launched today.
> 
> Edit: one type 055, and one type 052DG.
> 
> View attachment 595623


Thus nine destroyer launch in 2019! As predicted beforehand. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1207922600703213575The Chinese navy has launched seven destroyers so far this year. Will nine be launched in 2019? Let's see. (20 Dec)


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## aziqbal

7 x Type 052D
2 x Type 055

with possibly of 2 more Type 052D

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## LKJ86

Via @热武器时代的爱情 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

December 27, 2019







Via @热武器时代的爱情 from Weibo

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## lcloo

Interesting, no main deck guns for both ships. This will cause wild speculations.

1. Production rates of 130mm gun can't match launch rate of DDG?
2. Delay due to new upgraded variants of 130mm gun?
3. Switching to rail gun? (this one is real wild but not impossible).

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## JSCh

Exclusive video of the latest launch of 055 and 052D from wenhuipo 
-> 獨家視頻：055型052D型導彈驅逐艦大連齊下水 - 視頻 - 香港文匯網​

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## LKJ86

Via www.wenweipo.com

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## LKJ86

Via @Alberta-徐浩 from Weibo

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## obj 705A

so on the SDF we were talking about the number of DDGs the PLAN wants to have after one or three decades, but lets forget about the far future, what about 2020? if I'm not mistaken there is now only one type 052D remaining, the one in Dalian so the question is what will be launched after that? either they continue to build more 052Ds or we will see the type 052E next year, or may be.. just may be.. next year aside from that one 052D every thing else will be a type 055 from now on.

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## OBLiTeRate TrumpTurd

They seems to be the RAILGUN friendly 055 DDG.

If they are indeed RAILGUN friendly 055 DDG, then
the Non COWARD & Non GUTLESS * Beijing Elites need ... ...

#1) to send multiple convoys of ( 2 054A + 3 052D + 1 055A DDG ) to
the strait of Hormuz to perform join naval exercise part 2
with ( RUSSIA + IRAN ) immediately.

#2) to patrol the Undisputed Cockroaches naval bases in
GUAM & SINGAPORE.

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## casual

lcloo said:


> Interesting, no main deck guns for both ships. This will cause wild speculations.
> 
> 1. Production rates of 130mm gun can't match launch rate of DDG?
> 2. Delay due to new upgraded variants of 130mm gun?
> 3. Switching to rail gun? (this one is real wild but not impossible).


Or removing the deck gun for more missiles?


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## ZeEa5KPul

casual said:


> Or removing the deck gun for more missiles?


No, the guns get installed post launch.


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## LKJ86

Via @舰船知识杂志 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @社会主义新青年Memorian from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @仙居 from Weibo

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## JSCh

*China's first Type 055 destroyer Nanchang commissioned*
Xinhua | Updated: 2020-01-12 11:16

















JINAN — The _Nanchang_, China's first Type 055 guided missile destroyer, was commissioned in the People's Liberation Army Navy on Sunday morning in the port city of Qingdao, East China's Shandong province.

The 10,000 tonne-class destroyer officially debuted at the multinational naval parade in celebration of the Chinese navy's 70th founding anniversary on April 23, 2019.

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## LKJ86

Via @央广军事 from Weibo

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## JSCh

​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1216241291455016960

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## lcloo

Not counting those onboard the ship, I counted 1,600 sailors, about 50 NCO(?) and about 20 top ranking officers standing on berth. Are they all from the same destroyer squadron, or are they all seamen for the six type 055?

Edit: My mistake, total of 800 sailors.

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## Dungeness

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 599336
> 
> View attachment 599334
> View attachment 599335
> 
> Via @央广军事 from Weibo



Pic 1, which ship was in the background? Liaoning?


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## LKJ86

JSCh said:


> ​
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1216241291455016960







Via @大包00 from Weibo





Via 人民画报








Via @人民海军 from Weibo

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## IblinI

What a beauty,


LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 599394
> 
> Via @大包00 from Weibo
> 
> View attachment 599397
> 
> Via 人民画报
> 
> View attachment 599398
> View attachment 599399
> 
> Via @人民海军 from Weibo
> 
> View attachment 599400
> View attachment 599401
> View attachment 599402
> View attachment 599403





LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 599394
> 
> Via @大包00 from Weibo
> 
> View attachment 599397
> 
> Via 人民画报
> 
> View attachment 599398
> View attachment 599399
> 
> Via @人民海军 from Weibo
> 
> View attachment 599400
> View attachment 599401
> View attachment 599402
> View attachment 599403


What a beauty, neat and sleek.

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## Deino

Dungeness said:


> Pic 1, which ship was in the background? Liaoning?




yes

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## LKJ86

Via 人民画报

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## LKJ86

Via @大包00 from Weibo

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## obj 705A

the type 055 appears from 7:10 to 12:10 :-

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## LKJ86



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## Sunny4pak

*China Inducted Type 055 Destroyer in Chinese Navy 2020*


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## LKJ86

Via @斯文的威猛 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @大包00 from Weibo

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## GS Zhou

LKJ86 said:


>


Good picture! But I just hate to see the dock is empty, or even just half empty. Dalian should be given more 055 orders!

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## LKJ86

Via @从小就黑 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @瘦驼 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @从小就黑 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @热武器时代的爱情 from Weibo

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## Figaro

Can someone tell me how many 055's are active and how many are under construction. I have lost count unfortunately ... the pace of Chinese shipbuilding is too fast.


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## lcloo

Figaro said:


> Can someone tell me how many 055's are active and how many are under construction. I have lost count unfortunately ... the pace of Chinese shipbuilding is too fast.


One ship is in service, pennant number 101
Two ships in sea trials
Three ships in fitting out
Two ships under construction.

Total 8 ships.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> One ship is in service, pennant number 101
> Two ships in sea trials
> Three ships in fitting out
> Two ships under construction.
> 
> Total 8 ships.




And do we know which one is this? or better, is there currently a detail do differ between #02, #03 and so on?


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## JSCh

*China's Type 055 warship larger, more powerful than expected*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2020/1/31 17:16:47



A commissioning ceremony for China's first Type 055 guided-missile destroyer _Nanchang_ is held in Qingdao, East China's Shandong Province on January 12, 2020. Photo: Xinhua

It has emerged that China's most advanced destroyer, the 10,000-ton-class Type 055, is larger than previously reported as the Chinese Navy recently revealed it has an actual displacement of more than 12,000 tons. Experts said on Friday that the difference between 10,000 and 12,000 tons could be huge and indicate the warship is even more powerful than expected.

In an introduction video for _Nanchang_, the first ship of its type, released by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy during the Spring Festival holidays, the service confirmed the ship has a displacement of more than 12,000 tons.

The warship was previously only vaguely referred to as China's first 10,000-ton-class destroyer, without information of its exact displacement.

"This has debunked some analysts' estimations that the Type 055's displacement is only a little more than 10,000 tons, and indicates the ship type could be even more powerful than expected," a military expert who asked not to be named told the Global Times on Friday.

The 12,000-ton figure could refer to standard or normal displacement, so full displacement could potentially reach 13,000 tons, the expert estimated, noting that the Type 052D, a previous classification of Chinese destroyer, has an approximate displacement of just 6,000 to 7,000 tons.

Displacement is an important indicator of a warship's combat capability in multiple aspects including firepower and its ability to sail in high seas, as a larger displacement results in higher stability, more fuel and ammunition, analysts said.

The PLA Navy video also revealed that _Nanchang_ marks China's achievement of a globally advanced level in terms of surface vessel propulsion technology, and that the warship's speed is of the top class.

It did not reveal details of the ship's propulsion system or the ship's top speed.

Analysts predict the Type 055 has variants that will use full electric propulsion in the future, which could enable more optimized power distribution and realize the usage of high-energy weapons like lasers.

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## Bilal.

It needs to be upgraded to 128 vls cells.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

lcloo said:


> One ship is in service, pennant number 101
> Two ships in sea trials
> Three ships in fitting out
> Two ships under construction.
> 
> Total 8 ships.



Next batch of 8 soon?

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## lcloo

Deino said:


> And do we know which one is this? or better, is there currently a detail do differ between #02, #03 and so on?


I am sorry, it is hard to track them all. The 2nd ship from JNCX is under going sea trial,
not too sure about the other ship that is also on sea trial, it could be the 1st ship from Dalian shipyard.



Austin Powers said:


> Next batch of 8 soon?


There is no confirmation for the number of the 2nd batch yet.

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## LKJ86

Via @从小就黑 from Weibo

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## Beast



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## LKJ86

Via www.haohanfw.com

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## lcloo

The 7th Type 055 destroyer takes shape at the Jiangnan Changxing shipyard. It should receive hull number 104 but to be confirmed.

via East Pendulum/ Henry Kenhmann

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> The 7th Type 055 destroyer takes shape at the Jiangnan Changxing shipyard. It should receive hull number 104 but to be confirmed.
> 
> via East Pendulum/ Henry Kenhmann
> 
> View attachment 613645



Why 104 and do we know the numbers of the vessels #03 to #06?


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> Why 104 and do we know the numbers of the vessels #03 to #06?


Sorry, I don't have the answer. And #104 was given by Henry Kenhmann, but he did wrote "waiting for confirmation".

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## LKJ86

lcloo said:


> The 7th Type 055 destroyer takes shape at the Jiangnan Changxing shipyard. It should receive hull number 104 but to be confirmed.
> 
> via East Pendulum/ Henry Kenhmann
> 
> View attachment 613645







Via @xx笑而不语xx from Weibo

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## LKJ86

By 米鹏

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## LKJ86

Via @云墨斋SSS from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @从小就黑 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @云墨斋SSS from Weibo

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1249989382783852545


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## Pakistani Fighter

I want 4 of these in Pakistani Navy so bad


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## Han Patriot

lcloo said:


> The 7th Type 055 destroyer takes shape at the Jiangnan Changxing shipyard. It should receive hull number 104 but to be confirmed.
> 
> via East Pendulum/ Henry Kenhmann
> 
> View attachment 613645


7th?omg you serious?


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## juj06750

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> I want 4 of these in Pakistani Navy so bad


Pakistan, bring MONEY
we want MONEY now


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## IblinI

juj06750 said:


> Pakistan, bring MONEY
> we want MONEY now


false flag?

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## Ultima Thule

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> I want 4 of these in Pakistani Navy so bad


No Type 055 is over capability for Pakistan, Type-052-D is ok for Pakistan


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## Pakistani Fighter

seven0seven said:


> No Type 055 is over capability for Pakistan, Type-052-D is ok for Pakistan


Ok


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## Ultima Thule

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Ok


Yaar its more like Battle cruisers similar to Russian one with extremely complex tech its actually blue water ship, Pakistan needs brown/green water ship, and PN doesn't want to go to the middle of Indian ocean or fight near the coast of India,, Pakistan needs to defend itself from nearer of its coast that means we don't need Type 55 but few Type-52 are needed


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## Pakistani Fighter

seven0seven said:


> Yaar its more like Battle cruisers similar to Russian one with extremely complex tech its actually blue water ship, Pakistan needs brown/green water ship, and PN doesn't want to go to the middle of Indian ocean or fight near the coast of India,, Pakistan needs to defend itself from nearer of its coast that means we don't need Type 55 but few Type-52 are needed


India will have about 14 destroyers in few years. 4 Rajput Class, 3 Dehli Class, 3 Kolkata Class and in few years Most advanced _Visakhapatnam_-class. We need Destroyers with Long Range SAMs first so that we don't allow their MPAs to come closer to our ships. And yes Type 52Ds are good but remember your enemy has 14 Destroyers in its arsenal.


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## IblinI

seven0seven said:


> Yaar its more like Battle cruisers similar to Russian one with extremely complex tech its actually blue water ship, Pakistan needs brown/green water ship, and PN doesn't want to go to the middle of Indian ocean or fight near the coast of India,, Pakistan needs to defend itself from nearer of its coast that means we don't need Type 55 but few Type-52 are needed


From my point of view, after the delivery of 4 Type 054P, Pakistan could take a look at Type 057, it would suit your country more in terms of capability and cost.

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## Ultima Thule

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> India will have about 14 destroyers in few years. 4 Rajput Class, 3 Dehli Class, 3 Kolkata Class and in few years Most advanced _Visakhapatnam_-class. We need Destroyers with Long Range SAMs first so that we don't allow their MPAs to come closer to our ships. And yes Type 52Ds are good but remember your enemy has 14 Destroyers in its arsenal.


Few saturation attacks from air and from these ships (Type 52D) is nullifies this Indian advantages, Indian navy will come and fight you near to Pakistani coast if this happened most of Indian naval ships will be destroy by long range attacks from land/sea/air and subsurface


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## Deino

*Guys ... India is irrelevant to this thread, the Indian Navy even more and also these repeated wishes from some Pakistani friends, the PN shall get this monster! *

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## ÇölKaplanı

Does PLA Navy plans to increase the Type 55 orders?


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## IblinI

ÇölKaplanı said:


> Does PLA Navy plans to increase the Type 55 orders?


No doubt on that, and we can probably expect to see improvement such as IEP and railgun.

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## Deino

Simply WOW

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## ILC

Watermark

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## LKJ86

Via @万全 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @云墨斋SSS from Weibo

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## Pakistani Fighter

Deino said:


> Simply WOW
> 
> View attachment 626020


I want this in my navy so bad

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## LKJ86

Via www.top81cn.cn

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## truthseeker2010

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> India will have about 14 destroyers in few years. 4 Rajput Class, 3 Dehli Class, 3 Kolkata Class and in few years Most advanced _Visakhapatnam_-class. We need Destroyers with Long Range SAMs first so that we don't allow their MPAs to come closer to our ships. And yes Type 52Ds are good but remember your enemy has 14 Destroyers in its arsenal.



India will have 10 DDGs at most and 052d is more than enough to take care of them, 6-8 52d and 8 54As rest assure Indian Navy will remain at bay.

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## Ultima Thule

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> I want this in my navy so bad


Why??? And don't derail the thread and i already told you its the over capabilities for PN 4-6 type 52D have enough fire power to neutralize whole IN destroyers fleet

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## Deino

Allegedly no. 7 launched yesterday at Jiangnan

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## serenity

Pakistan can maybe buy both the 052D with 054A with missiles including in deal for the price of one empty 055. As long as they have YJ-12, YJ-18 type missiles. PLAN has hypersonic missiles for destroying ship and carriers similar to DF-17 and next generation hypersonic missiles now just called YJ-x. I don't think PLAN and Chinese government will allow sale of same models but the missiles more important than ship. 055 can just carry much more missiles and heavier type of missiles. Also much more powerful radar systems but Pakistan doesn't need long range for navy. 052D and 054A is more than enough but Pakistan definitely needs good submarines and to be able to hunt submarines otherwise Indian submarines can easily sink 052D and 054A if nothing stopping them except ship helicopter just for some detection abilities.

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Allegedly no. 7 launched yesterday at Jiangnan
> 
> View attachment 628096


*And from 龙龑之 on 29 April:*

_China Jiangnan shipyard hold a launching ceremony for *7th type 055 *destroyer yesterday (28 April 2020).
(no clear image)_


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1255292479856836610

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## samsara

*Also from Dafeng Cao on 29 April:*

_The launch ceremony of *7th 055 Destroyer* was held yesterday at JNCX shipyard, it can be seen on the top right corner of this photo._


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1255473007377756162

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## LKJ86

Via @北海舰队 from Weixin

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## lcloo



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## samsara

A clip of Nanchang 101 carrying out the replenishment work at sea.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1259813516992589824

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## Figaro

serenity said:


> Pakistan can maybe buy both the 052D with 054A with missiles including in deal for the price of one empty 055. As long as they have YJ-12, YJ-18 type missiles. PLAN has hypersonic missiles for destroying ship and carriers similar to DF-17 and next generation hypersonic missiles now just called YJ-x. I don't think PLAN and Chinese government will allow sale of same models but the missiles more important than ship. 055 can just carry much more missiles and heavier type of missiles. Also much more powerful radar systems but Pakistan doesn't need long range for navy. 052D and 054A is more than enough but Pakistan definitely needs good submarines and to be able to hunt submarines otherwise Indian submarines can easily sink 052D and 054A if nothing stopping them except ship helicopter just for some detection abilities.


I think Pakistan's money would be better spent on buying small ships like frigates and more submarines ... it really can't seek to match the Indian surface navy so better to make its underwater arsenal more formidable.

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## no smoking

Figaro said:


> I think Pakistan's money would be better spent on buying small ships like frigates and more submarines ... it really can't seek to match the Indian surface navy so better to make its underwater arsenal more formidable.


Totally agree with you.
The main tasks that Pakistan navy has in the potential against India are:
1. Break the block of Indian navy targeting Pakistan sea transport;
2. Intercept the India transport ships.

The first task can be done by a large number of frigates fleet against India submarine and land based airforce targeting Indian surface fleet;
The best weapon for the second task is submarine.

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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV

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## samsara

Following info by Henri Kenhmann (13 May) has about two-week discrepancy with the earlier ones.

Nevertheless, the new ship can be ascertained to be on water now! 


“The 7th destroyer of Type 055, *which was launched on May 11* at the Jiangnan Changxing shipyard, looks good in this photo… we still have to find it.” 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1260434286768988160


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

samsara said:


> Following info by Henri Kenhmann (13 May) has about two-week discrepancy with the earlier ones.
> 
> Nevertheless, the new ship can be ascertained to be on water now!
> 
> 
> “The 7th destroyer of Type 055, *which was launched on May 11* at the Jiangnan Changxing shipyard, looks good in this photo… we still have to find it.”
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1260434286768988160



When will the 8th Type 055 be launched? China needs at least 30 Type 055 in the coming years to support 4 heavy carriers and 8 light carriers.


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## samsara

Austin Powers said:


> When will the 8th Type 055 be launched? China needs at least 30 Type 055 in the coming years to support 4 heavy carriers and 8 light carriers.


Be patient and keep on watching…

They all will come out one by one in duly time… and patience is part of the virtue

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## lcloo

Austin Powers said:


> When will the 8th Type 055 be launched? China needs at least 30 Type 055 in the coming years to support 4 heavy carriers and 8 light carriers.


It is still a long way to go.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

lcloo said:


> It is still a long way to go.
> View attachment 632085



That was in February. By now it should be close to launch.

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## Deino

Austin Powers said:


> When will the 8th Type 055 be launched? China needs at least 30 Type 055 in the coming years to support 4 heavy carriers and 8 light carriers.




Yes for sure ... in the same way Pakistan should get the H-20 and India should purchase a squadron of Tu-160Ms?!!

I think you should calm down and think before you write such BS.

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## juj06750

Austin Powers said:


> When will the 8th Type 055 be launched? China needs at least 30 Type 055 in the coming years to support 4 heavy carriers and 8 light carriers.


hey, westerner 
who said we need at least 30 Type 055? 4 heavy carriers and 8 light carriers? who said that?
or is it another westerner's fancy talk?
please note that our Type 055 is mainly designed to shoot down the incoming ballistic missiles (perhaps from US) in blue ocean; our air defence destroyers (Type 052C / Type 052D) and frigates (Type 054 / Type 054A) have been mostly used to protect sea route and escort naval task force from far sea

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## Ultima Thule

juj06750 said:


> hey, westerner
> who said we need at least 30 Type 055? 4 heavy carriers and 8 light carriers? who said that?
> or is it another westerner's fancy talk?
> please note that our Type 055 is mainly designed to shoot down the incoming ballistic missiles (perhaps from US) in blue ocean; our air defence destroyers (Type 052C / Type 052D) and frigates (Type 054 / Type 054A) have been mostly used to protect sea route and escort naval task force from far sea


He is your countrymen living in Canada dude

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## ZY-CN-CA

ÇölKaplanı said:


> Does PLA Navy plans to increase the Type 55 orders?


nope


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## LKJ86

Via @人民海军 from Weixin

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> It is still a long way to go.
> View attachment 632085



Seems as if not as much as I expected. this tweet is from today morning:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265606043804946432

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Deino said:


> Seems as if not as much as I expected. this tweet is from today morning:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265606043804946432



Woohoo. Can't wait for the 9th.

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## Deino

Austin Powers said:


> Woohoo. Can't wait for the 9th.




Is a ninth ship currently anyhow under construction?


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## Daniel808

Austin Powers said:


> That was in February. By now it should be close to launch.



You are right 



Deino said:


> Seems as if not as much as I expected. this tweet is from today morning:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265606043804946432

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## lcloo

Can't make out which is 055 or 052D (extended helicopter deck). One is inside dry dock.

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## LKJ86

Via @舰船知识杂志 from Weibo

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## samsara

Does anyone here believe that PLA Navy will order further ships of Type 055 without any significant change?

I just don't think so (tho I don't have any info to prop that too).

The lead ship came from JNCX, the closing one from Dalian Shipyard.

101 Nanchang
102 Lhasa
103 Anshan
? 
105 Dalian
106 Yanʼan
107 Zunyi
?

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @解放军报 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @从小就黑 from Weibo

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## lcloo

The 2nd Type 055 series, "Lhasa" (??), left the Changxing Jiangnan shipyard in Shanghai to join its unit located in northern China.
It is expected to enter service before the end of the year.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270060826934665222

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

lcloo said:


> The 2nd Type 055 series, "Lhasa" (??), left the Changxing Jiangnan shipyard in Shanghai to join its unit located in northern China.
> It is expected to enter service before the end of the year.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270060826934665222



China needs 50 Type 055 by the end of this decade to show America who is boss in South China Sea.


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## samsara

lcloo said:


> The 2nd Type 055 series, "Lhasa" (??), left the Changxing Jiangnan shipyard in Shanghai to join its unit located in northern China.
> It is expected to enter service before the end of the year.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270060826934665222


The Type 055 DDG 102 Lhasa, launched on 2018.04.28 from JN, is predicted to be admitted into service somewhere in October 2020 (!?) to join the North Sea Fleet. The onlookers can only guess from a distance at best 

And the 105 Dalian and 106 Yanʼan are predicted to join the admission into services this year too, to the South Sea Fleet. Their dual launches were done on 2018.07.03 at DL.

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## samsara

lcloo said:


> The 2nd Type 055 series, "Lhasa" (??), left the Changxing Jiangnan shipyard in Shanghai to join its unit located in northern China.
> It is expected to enter service before the end of the year.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270060826934665222


Our Int'l mod, Deino, says it in the same fashion… yes, October is before the end of year, my bad in quick reading 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270068903222312962

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @浩汉防务-菜兵 from Weibo

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1272508560564457475

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1272568131857211392

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## lcloo

Photo via Yuxiaochen SDF. Note the Z20 naval helicopter mock up on board. The type 055 is either 2nd ship (102?) to be commissioned soon or 3rd ship under sea trial.

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## aziqbal

but this is not new 

a mock up of Z20 was also seen on 101 during trials


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## LKJ86

Via @从小就黑 from Weibo





Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @开心包子铺 from Weibo

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## samsara

055老婆目前的情况：

江南造船厂
1号舰 101南昌 现役
2号舰 102拉萨 即将服役
5号舰 103鞍山 舾装中
7号舰 104 X X 舾装中

大连造船厂
3号舰 105大连 海试中
4号舰 106延安 舾装中
6号舰 107遵义 舾装中
8号舰 108 X X 船坞分段总装

*The current circumstances of the Type 055 DDG:*

*Jiangnan Shipyard*
Ship #1 101 Nanchang, in active service
Ship #2 102 Lhasa, to be commissioned
Ship #5 103 Anshan, being outfitted
Ship #7 104 X X, being outfitted

*Dalian Shipyard*
Ship #3 105 Dalian, under sea trial
Ship #4 106 Yanʼan, being outfitted
Ship #6 107 Zunyi, being outfitted
Ship #8 108 X X, under section assembly at dry dock

Nanchang is the birthplace of PLA
Yanʼan and Zunyi are the crucial spots of Long March

Some is wondering why Anshan made its place among the list, what's its significance 

2020.07.02:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278715175248572416

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## ILC

Go with the name Taipei

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## sheik

samsara said:


> 055老婆目前的情况：
> 
> 江南造船厂
> 1号舰 101南昌 现役
> 2号舰 102拉萨 即将服役
> 5号舰 103鞍山 舾装中
> 7号舰 104 X X 舾装中
> 
> 大连造船厂
> 3号舰 105大连 海试中
> 4号舰 106延安 舾装中
> 6号舰 107遵义 舾装中
> 8号舰 108 X X 船坞分段总装
> 
> *The current circumstances of the Type 055 DDG:*
> 
> *Jiangnan Shipyard*
> Ship #1 101 Nanchang, in active service
> Ship #2 102 Lhasa, to be commissioned
> Ship #5 103 Anshan, being outfitted
> Ship #7 104 X X, being outfitted
> 
> *Dalian Shipyard*
> Ship #3 105 Dalian, under sea trial
> Ship #4 106 Yanʼan, being outfitted
> Ship #6 107 Zunyi, being outfitted
> Ship #8 108 X X, under section assembly at dry dock
> 
> Nanchang is the birthplace of PLA
> Yanʼan and Zunyi are the crucial spots of Long March
> 
> Some is wondering why Anshan made its place among the list, what's its significance
> 
> 2020.07.02:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278715175248572416



The first generation of #101 in PLA navy was named after the Anshan city, one of the most important cities as backbone of China's industry at 1950s. The other three in that class (Type 07 Destroyer) were named Fushun, Changchun, Taiyuan for the same reason. 65 years later, Changchun is the name of a Type 052C, Taiyuan is the name of a Type 052D, Fushun is the name of a Type 056, and there's no ship currently in service called Anshan yet. Naming a Type 055 Anshan can be a salute to the first destroyer entering service in the PLA Navy since founding of the PRC.

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## LKJ86

Via @央视军事报道 from Weixin

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## clibra

samsara said:


> 055老婆目前的情况：
> 
> 江南造船厂
> 1号舰 101南昌 现役
> 2号舰 102拉萨 即将服役
> 5号舰 103鞍山 舾装中
> 7号舰 104 X X 舾装中
> 
> 大连造船厂
> 3号舰 105大连 海试中
> 4号舰 106延安 舾装中
> 6号舰 107遵义 舾装中
> 8号舰 108 X X 船坞分段总装
> 
> *The current circumstances of the Type 055 DDG:*
> 
> *Jiangnan Shipyard*
> Ship #1 101 Nanchang, in active service
> Ship #2 102 Lhasa, to be commissioned
> Ship #5 103 Anshan, being outfitted
> Ship #7 104 X X, being outfitted
> 
> *Dalian Shipyard*
> Ship #3 105 Dalian, under sea trial
> Ship #4 106 Yanʼan, being outfitted
> Ship #6 107 Zunyi, being outfitted
> Ship #8 108 X X, under section assembly at dry dock
> 
> Nanchang is the birthplace of PLA
> Yanʼan and Zunyi are the crucial spots of Long March
> 
> Some is wondering why Anshan made its place among the list, what's its significance
> 
> 2020.07.02:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278715175248572416



WTF, your ex-wives include 052/052C/052D/075, and now 055, you must be a play boy!


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## samsara

clibra said:


> WTF, your ex-wives include 052/052C/052D/075, and now 055, you must be a play boy!


He's a man of paramount importance, and amassing a great deal of fortunes and have a magnificent taste of beautiful ladies 

No envy, no envy,,, possession is commensurate with posture and power

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @开心包子铺 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## JSCh

利刃斩海飞剪艏
今天 10:01 来自 荣耀30 Pro 5G 已编辑
#向海图强# 大连终于开始试航啦​Today at 10:01 from Honor 30 Pro 5G edited
#向海图强# Dalian has finally started sea trials

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## LKJ86

Via @战地记者钢羽 from Weibo

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## sheik

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 653025
> View attachment 653026
> 
> Via @战地记者钢羽 from Weibo



Should be No. 3 at Dalian.

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## LKJ86

Via @印度总理 from lt.cjdby.net

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## LKJ86

Via @老王RR涡扇花动机 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7

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## LKJ86

*Chinese Fleet Conducts Live-fire Drill at Bohai Sea*

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> *Chinese Fleet Conducts Live-fire Drill at Bohai Sea*

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## LKJ86

Via @CNR国防时空 from Weibo

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## CAPRICORN-88

We are waiting for news of the EMRG to be installed as a standard.

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## Grandy

*Chinese Navy Installs New Turbo Generators to Power ‘Electromagnetic Railguns’ On It Warships*

Published on August 1, 2020
By EurAsian Times Desk

The Chinese Navy (People’s Liberation Army Navy) has installed new turbo generators on its warships. The decision to install the turbo generators comes in the midst of tensions with Quadrilateral Security Dialogue Members (QUAD) India, Japan, Australia and the United States. 

The China State Shipbuilding Corporation’s (CSSC) 704 Research Institute announced recently that its 20-megawatt power generators had entered service, the Global Times reported. That’s enough electricity to light up a city of 15,000.

American Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, on the other hand, are only capable of a maximum power output of 7.5 megawatts using three 2.5-megawatt generators, making such a platform unfeasible for the railgun.

According to sources, the new turbo generators will power railguns and electromagnetic catapults in PLAN warships. The turbogenerators quadruple the power generation capacity of existing power plants.

Li Jie, a naval expert in Beijing, says that the more powerful generators “will mean all these high-energy-consuming systems can operate.”

China has been testing naval uses of a railgun since at least 2017, a weapon which uses electromagnets to accelerate a metal slug to incredible speeds. Rather than relying on explosives to destroy the target, the sheer force of the impact produces a huge release of energy, which is why railguns are called “kinetic energy weapons.”

The Global Times noted the turbo generators make it possible to use advanced integrated electric propulsion (IEP) technology, which basically turns ships into giant, hybrid gas-electric vehicles. The American Zumwalt uses such a design, as do the British Royal Navy’s Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier and the cruise-liner RMS Queen Mary II.

Experts at EurAsian Times believe that the decision to deploy the new turbo generators comes at the time Beijing is facing the QUAD in the Pacific and the Indian Ocean. The QUAD united for the first time when they conducted naval drills in both Pacific and the Indian Ocean to send a covert message to China.

China’s claims to the South China Sea have suffered a set back in recent times with its largest trading partner -Australia labelling Beijing’s claim over the strategic waterway as ‘illegal’.

_Source: eurasiantimes.com “Chinese Navy Installs New Turbo Generators to Power ‘Electromagnetic Railguns’ On It Warshipsz”

_

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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Type 055 vs Type 052DL




Via @仗剑深蓝 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @从小就黑 from Weibo

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Chinese navy may launch eighth stealth destroyer later this year


But experts say it could take up to five years for all the Type 055s designed for China’s aircraft carrier strike groups to be combat-ready.




www.scmp.com


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## Figaro

Austin Powers said:


> Chinese navy may launch eighth stealth destroyer later this year
> 
> 
> But experts say it could take up to five years for all the Type 055s designed for China’s aircraft carrier strike groups to be combat-ready.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com


Please do not quote Minnie Chan or for that matter the SCMP with regards to Chinese military development.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The first batch of 8, then another batch of 8 starting next year.


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## Figaro

The 8th 055 destroyer was launched today

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## samsara

_Implied the last and the 8th of the Type 055 DDG in the current batch._

From 逆襲 @horobeyo on 2020-08-29:

十三五规划最后一锅DDG
图自微博从小就黑

*The last ship of the DDG in the 13th Five-Year Plan*
Source: Weibo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299575479494606849
See again the post #5311 on 2020-07-02 about the status of 052D and 055:








Chinese Navy (PLAN) News & Discussions


Jiangnan Shipyard (posted 2020.07.02) #中国海军 #055型驱逐舰 #052D型驱逐舰 与此同时江南造船厂建造和舾装中的052D/DG和055型驱逐舰。 序列： 052D/DG 15号舰 （图1，122唐山） 即将入役 16（图1，132苏州）、17号舰海试中 18、21、22、24号舰 舾装中 055 5（图1，103鞍山）、7号舰 舾装中 At the same time, the Type 052D / DG (or DL) and Type 055 destroyers are being built and...



defence.pk

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## LKJ86

Via @军戈飞扬 from Weibo


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## Figaro

The 8th 055 going out after launch

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## S10

I guess the next batch would be 055A with all electric propulsion.

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## LKJ86

Via https://www.tkww.hk/a/202008/30/AP5f4b1d52e4b01ed767453bea.html

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## samsara

PEPE ESCOBAR, an experienced Brazilian journalist (born 1954) wrote in the ASIA TIMES recently that there will be a concerted drive [by China] to increase all-round defense spending to 4% of GDP... in view of the present world's dynamics.





China needs to increase its nuclear warheads to 1,000: Global Times


10 cities too easy for China. China can easily did that with only single DF-41 ICBM launch (12 MIRV Thermonuclear Warhead) . 1.Also consider the need for enough warheads to survive a first strike. 2.We need to take into account the interception situation, It can survive enough warheads after...



defence.pk





The Type 055(A) should be a good component to have the benefit of the more funding.

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## LKJ86

Via @大公文匯網 from Weibo

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## samsara

*From Henri Kenhmann at East Pendulum on 2020.08.29:*

The *8th Type 055* destroyer and the *25th Type 052D* were launched today at the Dalian Shipyard.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299693497990090755

*From Rupprecht Deino on 2020.08.30:*

A few more images of the *8th Type 055* DDG during and after launch yesterday at Dalian Shipyard.

(Images via Via https://tkww.hk/a/202008/30/AP5f4b1d52e4b01ed767453bea.html & @军戈飞扬 from Weibo


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300046360088117248

*055型052D型導彈驅逐艦大連齊下水*
大國重器 2020.08.30








055型052D型導彈驅逐艦大連齊下水 - 大公文匯網


8月30日上午，中國海軍第25艘052D型和第8艘055型導彈驅逐艦在大連造船廠同時下水。至此，海軍首批建造的8艘055型萬噸大驅已全部下水。




www.tkww.hk




_Takung Wenhui Media Group (HK)_


*From Dafeng Cao on 2020.08.30:*

Here it comes, the 8th one. In the span of *38 months*, 8 055 Destroyers were launched.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300006041803841541

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## LKJ86



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## Grandy

*Chinese Navy May Be First To Get Ballistic Missiles*
H I Sutton

A Department of Defense report suggests that the Chinese Navy, formally known as the PLAN (People’s Liberation Army Navy), may put anti-ship ballistic missiles (ASBMs) on its new cruisers. These are the weapons dubbed ‘Aircraft Carrier Killers’ because of their massive hitting power. It would be the first time any navy has put this category of weapon on a warship. Chinese Navy cruisers would then be arguably the most heavily armed surface combatants in the world.




Artist's impression of a Renhai Class cruiser launching an anti-ship ballistic missile from its aft VLS (vertical launch system)

The 2020 China Military Power Report to Congress says that the new Type-055 Renhai Class cruiser “will likely be able to launch ASBMs and LACMs once these weapons are available”. LACMs refers to land-attack cruise missiles. The report comes in both classified and unclassified forms. In the unclassified version we are not presented with the evidence behind the assertion. But it would be a logical development, and would set Chinese warships apart from all others in the world.

The first Renhai Class cruiser was only commissioned in January of this year. But already the 8th ship has been launched on August 30.

At over 10,000 tons the Renhai Class cruisers are already impressive warships. They are equipped with very large phased-array radars similar to the U.S. Navy’s AEGIS system. The Chinese system is actually newer in terms of some key technologies. It uses AESA (active electronically scanned arrays) while the SPY-1 on American ships uses PESA (passive electronically scanned array). Data is not available on the performances and combat effectiveness of the overall systems however.

And they are armed with 112 launch cells for missiles, called a VLS (vertical launch system). This is more than the U.S. Navy's Arleigh Burke-class destroyers but fewer than the Ticonderoga-class cruisers. It should also be noted that smaller missiles can be multi-loaded on the U.S. warships.

China’s anti-ship ballistic missile is the CSS-5 Mod 5, better known as the DF-21D. The 35 ft long missile has a maneuverable reentry vehicle (MaRV) which allows it to adjust its course to hit the ship. It has a range of over 900 miles and is specifically intended to threaten aircraft carriers. The longer ranged DF-26 missile is also believed to be capable to targeting warships. Currently these missiles are shore based using a mobile truck launchers. But arming cruisers with an equivalent weapon could be a game changer, extending their reach further into the Pacific.

According to Captain Chris Carlson, a former senior U.S. intelligence officer and technical intelligence expert, it will likely be a newly developed weapon. The DF-21D is too large to fit inside the existing VLS aboard the Renhai Class. So either a modified VLS, or a new weapon. Carlson suspects the latter. There is currently no evidence that a new ASBM has been tested however so this may be some years off.

The current armament of the Renhai Class includes HHQ-9 surface-to-air missiles. These are, in the broadest sense, equivalent to the U.S. Navy’s RIM-66 Standard family of missiles. They have a maximum range of nearly 200 miles against aircraft. The Chinese system appears to lack the anti-ballistic missile (ABM) capabilities of the U.S. system however.

Also in the VLS are JY-18A ‘Eagle Strike’ anti-ship missiles. These have a reported range of 330 miles and hit their targets at supersonic speeds. The ASBM will greatly increase this anti-ship firepower. Possibly in the future DH-10 land attack cruise missiles (LACMs) will be added. These will likely already fit inside the existing VLS.

Anti-ship ballistic missiles are not the only cutting-edge weapons which the Chinese Navy is pioneering. They already have a ship with a rail gun. This first ship is likely to be a test bed and rail guns have not been seen on the Renhai Class. The publicly available version of the DoD report does not mention rail guns at all, so possibly this will only ever be an experiment.

The Chinese Navy is massively expanding its capabilities. The anti-ship ballistic missiles are a prime example of this, as is the Renhai Class cruiser. Marrying the two appears to be a natural step, and one which will mark the PLAN out as an innovative navy.

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## samsara

Grandy said:


> *Chinese Navy May Be First To Get Ballistic Missiles*
> H I Sutton
> 
> A Department of Defense report suggests that the Chinese Navy, formally known as the PLAN (People’s Liberation Army Navy), may put anti-ship ballistic missiles (ASBMs) on its new cruisers. These are the weapons dubbed ‘Aircraft Carrier Killers’ because of their massive hitting power. It would be the first time any navy has put this category of weapon on a warship. Chinese Navy cruisers would then be arguably the most heavily armed surface combatants in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Artist's impression of a Renhai Class cruiser launching an anti-ship ballistic missile from its aft VLS (vertical launch system)
> 
> The 2020 China Military Power Report to Congress says that the new Type-055 Renhai Class cruiser “will likely be able to launch ASBMs and LACMs once these weapons are available”. LACMs refers to land-attack cruise missiles. The report comes in both classified and unclassified forms. In the unclassified version we are not presented with the evidence behind the assertion. But it would be a logical development, and would set Chinese warships apart from all others in the world.
> 
> The first Renhai Class cruiser was only commissioned in January of this year. But already the 8th ship has been launched on August 30.
> 
> At over 10,000 tons the Renhai Class cruisers are already impressive warships. They are equipped with very large phased-array radars similar to the U.S. Navy’s AEGIS system. The Chinese system is actually newer in terms of some key technologies. It uses AESA (active electronically scanned arrays) while the SPY-1 on American ships uses PESA (passive electronically scanned array). Data is not available on the performances and combat effectiveness of the overall systems however.
> 
> And they are armed with 112 launch cells for missiles, called a VLS (vertical launch system). This is more than the U.S. Navy's Arleigh Burke-class destroyers but fewer than the Ticonderoga-class cruisers. It should also be noted that smaller missiles can be multi-loaded on the U.S. warships.
> 
> China’s anti-ship ballistic missile is the CSS-5 Mod 5, better known as the DF-21D. The 35 ft long missile has a maneuverable reentry vehicle (MaRV) which allows it to adjust its course to hit the ship. It has a range of over 900 miles and is specifically intended to threaten aircraft carriers. The longer ranged DF-26 missile is also believed to be capable to targeting warships. Currently these missiles are shore based using a mobile truck launchers. But arming cruisers with an equivalent weapon could be a game changer, extending their reach further into the Pacific.
> 
> According to Captain Chris Carlson, a former senior U.S. intelligence officer and technical intelligence expert, it will likely be a newly developed weapon. The DF-21D is too large to fit inside the existing VLS aboard the Renhai Class. So either a modified VLS, or a new weapon. Carlson suspects the latter. There is currently no evidence that a new ASBM has been tested however so this may be some years off.
> 
> The current armament of the Renhai Class includes HHQ-9 surface-to-air missiles. These are, in the broadest sense, equivalent to the U.S. Navy’s RIM-66 Standard family of missiles. They have a maximum range of nearly 200 miles against aircraft. The Chinese system appears to lack the anti-ballistic missile (ABM) capabilities of the U.S. system however.
> 
> Also in the VLS are JY-18A ‘Eagle Strike’ anti-ship missiles. These have a reported range of 330 miles and hit their targets at supersonic speeds. The ASBM will greatly increase this anti-ship firepower. Possibly in the future DH-10 land attack cruise missiles (LACMs) will be added. These will likely already fit inside the existing VLS.
> 
> Anti-ship ballistic missiles are not the only cutting-edge weapons which the Chinese Navy is pioneering. They already have a ship with a rail gun. This first ship is likely to be a test bed and rail guns have not been seen on the Renhai Class. The publicly available version of the DoD report does not mention rail guns at all, so possibly this will only ever be an experiment.
> 
> The Chinese Navy is massively expanding its capabilities. The anti-ship ballistic missiles are a prime example of this, as is the Renhai Class cruiser. Marrying the two appears to be a natural step, and one which will mark the PLAN out as an innovative navy.


Ha ha ha... Pentagon is playing out its old scare trick, this time exploiting the Chinese scare to squeeze out more funding from government. MORE MORE MORE... more $$$ is better, the world is threatening us... while the US has the largest military expenditure, bigger than the combined amount of the next six largest military expenditures.

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> Ha ha ha... Pentagon is playing out its old scare trick, this time exploiting the Chinese scare to squeeze out more funding from government. MORE MORE MORE... more $$$ is better, the world is threatening us... while the US has the largest military expenditure, bigger than the combined amount of the next six largest military expenditures.
> 
> View attachment 666516


To be fair though, launching a DF-21D variant out of the 055 is indeed an idea worth exploring and I am certain the PLAN has already done so.

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## mike2000 is back

Wo


samsara said:


> Ha ha ha... Pentagon is playing out its old scare trick, this time exploiting the Chinese scare to squeeze out more funding from government. MORE MORE MORE... more $$$ is better, the world is threatening us... while the US has the largest military expenditure, bigger than the combined amount of the next six largest military expenditures.
> 
> View attachment 666516


Wow....so even India spends more than Russia on military now. Interesting. Seems India spends more than China as percentage of GDP.


----------



## sheik

mike2000 is back said:


> Wo
> Wow....so even India spends more than Russia on military now. Interesting. Seems India spends more than China as percentage of GDP.



Obviously. China's GDP is 5 times of India's.


----------



## Figaro

mike2000 is back said:


> Wo
> Wow....so even India spends more than Russia on military now. Interesting. Seems India spends more than China as percentage of GDP.


China def spends more than the 178 billion expenditure reported .... that is for sure. The only question is how much more and I dont think we will ever get a clear answer.


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## IblinI

Figaro said:


> To be fair though, launching a DF-21D variant out of the 055 is indeed an idea worth exploring and I am certain the PLAN has already done so.


The future development of anti ship missiles.
1.Near space hypersonic ASM
2.Shipborne ASBM.

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## samsara

IblinI said:


> The future development of anti ship missiles.
> 1.Near space hypersonic ASM
> 2.Shipborne ASBM.
> View attachment 666774
> 
> View attachment 666775


At what types of warships these kinds of AShBM will be installed in future? The Type 055 for sure. What else?

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> At what types of warships these kinds of AShBM will be installed in future? The Type 055 for sure. What else?
> 
> Is the Hypersonic ASM something to be installed upon the large surface combatant too?


Wouldn't they need to significantly increase the size of the VLS systems though and the corresponding structure? I don't think these would be feasible modifications on 052Ds or even current 055s.


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## IblinI

Figaro said:


> Wouldn't they need to significantly increase the size of the VLS systems though and the corresponding structure? I don't think these would be feasible modifications on 052Ds or even current 055s.


It's not simple DF21D boarding on a ship.
The last one is an illustration of an airborne ASBM, we can assume the shipborne version is not much of difference.

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## LKJ86

Via @Andrei from www.top81cn.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @Andrei from www.top81cn.cn

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## Place Of Space

samsara said:


> Ha ha ha... Pentagon is playing out its old scare trick, this time exploiting the Chinese scare to squeeze out more funding from government. MORE MORE MORE... more $$$ is better, the world is threatening us... while the US has the largest military expenditure, bigger than the combined amount of the next six largest military expenditures.
> 
> View attachment 666516


Saudi Arabia and Germany military expenditures amount impressed me.


----------



## sheik

Figaro said:


> Wouldn't they need to significantly increase the size of the VLS systems though and the corresponding structure? I don't think these would be feasible modifications on 052Ds or even current 055s.





IblinI said:


> It's not simple DF21D boarding on a ship.
> The last one is an illustration of an airborne ASBM, we can assume the shipborne version is not much of difference.
> 
> View attachment 666791








How about DF100? It's a long-range hypersonic cruise missile with a “near space” flight altitude, capable to hit a moving object more than a thousand kms away. And it's already in service with the PLA Rocket Force. I think it (or some variant) would be a good fit to the VLS on 055/052D considering its size and capability.

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## Figaro

Place Of Space said:


> Saudi Arabia and Germany military expenditures amount impressed me.


Why? They have huge economies (especially Germany). Saudi Arabia spends a big amount of its GDP mainly to counter Iran and provide intervene/provide supplies to their proxies.


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## LKJ86

Via www.top81cn.cn

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305087431704817674

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## LKJ86

Via @Andrei from www.top81cn.cn

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## LKJ86

By 张海龙 and 邹向民

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## Grandy

sheik said:


> How about DF100? It's a long-range hypersonic cruise missile with a “near space” flight altitude, capable to hit a moving object more than a thousand kms away. And it's already in service with the PLA Rocket Force. I think it (or some variant) would be a good fit to the VLS on 055/052D considering its size and capability.



*Possible DF100 in Type 055 ?*


*It is more mysterious than the Dongfeng 17, and only by its name, what is unique about the Dongfeng 100 missile?*

2020-09-10







last year’s National Day military parade can be said to impress everyone. my country’s current top long-range strike weapons can be said to have appeared one by one, and even include the Dongfeng 17 hypersonic missile and the famous Dongfeng 21D and Dongfeng 26 Wait for anti-ship ballistic missiles.
But in fact, compared to Dongfeng 17, there is a missile that has been very low-key since its appearance, and it is rarely seen on the spot. But in fact, this missile is also one of my country's killer features, which is the Dongfeng 100 supersonic. cruise missile. So, what is unique about this missile? Today, Brother Tiger will talk about this unusually low-key weaponry.

I believe many people have noticed that the full name of Dongfeng 100 is very special, and it is called a supersonic cruise missile. In the missile industry, these two terms are generally seldom combined. Take cruise missiles as an example. The general pursuit is hit accuracy and range. In this regard, the Tomahawk cruise missile of the US military and the Longsword 10 of our country are typical. When attacking ground targets, its range often exceeds thousands of kilometers. After the replacement of nuclear warheads, because the warhead is lighter and smaller, it can fill up more fuel, and its range has reached a terrifying 2500 kilometers. Sword 10 is similar. In terms of hitting accuracy, the Tomahawk cruise missile can reach the 5-meter level when GPS+ terrain matching guidance is used, and it can directly attack the enemy’s key facilities, such as the command center or reinforced aircraft. The only shortcoming of cruise missiles That is, the mobility is relatively poor and the speed is relatively slow. Take the Tomahawk as an example, its flying speed is only about 0.9 Mach, and it can easily be intercepted by ground air defense systems. For example, my country still retains a large number of antiaircraft artillery units, which are actually used to intercept incoming cruises Missile.

On the Syrian battlefield, the US military once dropped more than 100 Tomahawk cruise missiles at one time, but they were intercepted by the Russian-made air defense system equipped in Syria. Cruise missiles such as the Tomahawk, the 10 common in my country, and the Russian caliber are a problem in actual combat. It is okay to bully a small country, but it is not enough to deal with a large country with a complete air defense system.

But Dongfeng 100 is different. This missile is also a cruise missile.
It has a long range and can reach more than 1200 kilometers, but its most outstanding performance is speed. It is understood that due to the use of a new composite power unit, This allows the missile to fly at a speed of Mach 3 to 4 throughout the entire process, and it can also perform complex maneuvers at the end to increase the probability of penetration.

This is not the end, it is inseparable from the flying height that can achieve such a fast flight speed. In order to improve the penetration rate of traditional cruise missiles such as Tomahawk, it often relies on terrain matching until it adopts ultra-low-altitude flight, but it is still not difficult to intercept at the end, while Dongfeng 100 is different. Its flying height is very delicate. It happens to be located in a nearby space of 30 to 60 kilometers, which is the same as the flying height of my country's Dongfeng 17 hypersonic missile warhead. The missile at this height is very difficult to intercept. Why?

This is mainly because, ah, the current air defense system actually has a large neutral position. For example, conventional long-range air defense missiles, the maximum shooting height is often difficult to exceed 30 kilometers, and the general anti-missile interceptor, The lower limit of its shooting height is very high, often above 100 kilometers, and the middle part of the height belongs to the adjacent space. At present, only the THAAD system of the United States can intercept this high-level anti-missile system.

The reason why is very difficult to intercept is mainly due to the seeker of the anti-missile system. Since the seeker of the anti-missile interceptor outside the atmosphere does not need to consider the heating problem of the warhead at high speed, all infrared seekers are used. However, ordinary air defense systems cannot intercept high-speed targets due to the limited shooting height. In the adjacent space, there are both high speed and high temperature caused by friction, which will cause the infrared seeker to fail, so it cannot be intercepted.

Although the THAAD system's interceptor missiles can work in adjacent spaces by placing the infrared seeker on the side of the warhead to avoid high temperature areas, they have poor maneuverability and can only strike ballistic missiles, and cannot intercept DF100 at all. This kind of maneuvering target. And this is only part of the performance characteristics of Dongfeng 100. As a multi-purpose cruise missile, it can not only attack land targets, but also attack ships at sea.Fight.

Since the Dongfeng 100 cruise missile itself is launched vertically, it does not rule out the possibility of boarding warships in the future. For example, my country’s 055 destroyer has a huge vertical launch system that allows Dongfeng 100 to be directly inserted without modification. 
By then, the 055 destroyer will be able to achieve precision strikes against targets at sea and land 1,000 kilometers away.

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## serenity

DF-100 is hypersonic not supersonic. It is both problem in the translation software and in Tiger brother's claim. He is not always reliable and giving the most accurate information but he does know quite a lot more than typical military fan. Tiger brother says high supersonic. In Chinese hypersonic does not have a special word. In Chinese "hypersonic" is called "high supersonic". The DF-100 is above mach 3 or 4 speed and the cone inlet is hypersonic design.

DF-100 is not gliding vehicle like one shown with DF-17. It is just scramjet powered low hypersonic speed like mach 6 or 7. First boost to extremely high altitude and travel path is secret. United States already understand the DF-17 HGV and DF-100. Better things are secret and involve EMP cruise missiles and other electronic weapons. Shown is always meaning either the weapon is quite well known already by enemy intelligence or better is already reached service.

US was watching the full scale HGV tests already back in 2014. The testing for hypersonic was years and years before 2014 when the weapon reached service already. Shown to public in 2019, five years after already known to be in service.

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## LKJ86

By 天养

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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weiob

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Video: https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:4556237984169991?from=old_pc_videoshow


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## samsara

_Revisiting the emphasis on what the weapon arsenal of a Type 055 DDG can do!_

From Henri Kenhmann at East Pendulum on 2020.10.09:

A recent video from the Chinese navy once again confirms a few points that we already knew about the Type 055 destroyer:

the 130mm caliber gun can fire *guided shells*
the VLS can fire *cruise missiles against ground targets, and anti-submarine weapons*



















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1314572807037050880

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## onebyone

*China’s Type 055 destroyer has anti-stealth, anti-satellite capabilities: report*



By Liu Xuanzun Source: Global Times Published: 2020/10/11 18:04:41
2






Photo taken on Jan. 12, 2020 shows the ceremony of the commissioning of the Nanchang, China's first Type 055 guided-missile destroyer, in the port city of Qingdao, east China's Shandong Province. The commission of Nanchang marks the Navy's leap from the third generation to the fourth generation of destroyers, according to a statement from the Navy. Photo: Xinhua

China's domestically developed 10,000 ton-class Type 055 guided missile destroyer can counter stealth aircraft and low-Earth orbit satellites, a state-owned media has recently revealed for the first time, leading Chinese experts to say on Sunday that the capabilities will give Chinese forces a key edge over their opponents in modern warfare.

The Type 055 is equipped with a dual-band radar system that has anti-stealth and anti-satellite capabilities in low-Earth orbit, China Central Television (CCTV) reported over the weekend.

The anti-satellite capability in particular has prompted discussions among military observers.

Some of the advanced radar systems produced by modern technologies can detect low-Earth orbit aircraft, which often circulate the Earth at an altitude of 300 to 500 kilometers, Wang Ya'nan, a Chinese aviation and space expert and the chief editor of Beijing-based Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times on Sunday.

If the radar system has a high enough performance, it can not only detect, but also track the satellites, Wang said, noting that this means the radar can then guide weapons to attack the satellites.

With a displacement of more than 10,000 tons, the Type 055 is a 180-meter-long, 20-meter-wide guided missile destroyer with 112 vertical launch missile cells capable of launching a combination of surface-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles, land-attack missiles and anti-submarine missiles, according to previous media reports.

Given the large size of the Type 055, it would be naturally able to carry a type of air-defense missile capable of reaching targets in low-Earth orbit, Wang predicted, noting that the radar system used on the Type 055 can also transmit data via data chain to land-based air-defense forces which can launch anti-satellite missiles.

In a test in 2007, China successfully destroyed a satellite, BBC reported at the time. Liu Jianchao, then spokesperson of the Chinese Foreign Ministry, confirmed the test and stressed China was committed to the peaceful development of outer space.

US aegis ships also have anti-satellite capabilities. In 2008, a Standard Missile-3 fired from the USS Lake Erie guided missile cruiser struck a crippled US spy satellite, Reuters reported at that time.

Low-Earth orbit satellites can monitor vast regions of battlefields and provide rich intelligence to their operators. In wartime, if one side can suppress hostile satellites, it can neutralize a key part of a hostile intelligence source and gain an advantage for itself, Wang said.

While it is also the first time that China's state-owned media has confirmed the Type 055's anti-stealth capability, it is not much of a surprise when compared with its anti-satellite capability, as China has already revealed several types of anti-stealth radar systems in many open occasions, military observers said.

The US has equipped its Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps with F-35 stealth fighter jets in addition to previously commissioned F-22 stealth fighter jets and B-2 stealth bombers. It is also selling a large amount of F-35s to its allies in the Asia-Pacific region.

This makes anti-stealth capability essential to countering potential threats from US stealth warplanes, analysts said.







China’s Type 055 destroyer has anti-stealth, anti-satellite capabilities: report - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via 邹向民, 王小波, 张海龙

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## FuturePAF

sheik said:


> View attachment 668351
> 
> 
> How about DF100? It's a long-range hypersonic cruise missile with a “near space” flight altitude, capable to hit a moving object more than a thousand kms away. And it's already in service with the PLA Rocket Force. I think it (or some variant) would be a good fit to the VLS on 055/052D considering its size and capability.



Pakistan should look at getting these and putting them on the last 3 of the Hangor class. A modified VLS section like on the Amur 950 design. Especially if the range is over 1000 km away. A better option then the Babur 3 SLCM at under 500 km.

1200km would be perfect to hold Delhi and Mumbai in range from the waters just off the coast of Pakistan.


----------



## FuturePAF

onebyone said:


> *China’s Type 055 destroyer has anti-stealth, anti-satellite capabilities: report*
> 
> 
> 
> By Liu Xuanzun Source: Global Times Published: 2020/10/11 18:04:41
> 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo taken on Jan. 12, 2020 shows the ceremony of the commissioning of the Nanchang, China's first Type 055 guided-missile destroyer, in the port city of Qingdao, east China's Shandong Province. The commission of Nanchang marks the Navy's leap from the third generation to the fourth generation of destroyers, according to a statement from the Navy. Photo: Xinhua
> 
> China's domestically developed 10,000 ton-class Type 055 guided missile destroyer can counter stealth aircraft and low-Earth orbit satellites, a state-owned media has recently revealed for the first time, leading Chinese experts to say on Sunday that the capabilities will give Chinese forces a key edge over their opponents in modern warfare.
> 
> The Type 055 is equipped with a dual-band radar system that has anti-stealth and anti-satellite capabilities in low-Earth orbit, China Central Television (CCTV) reported over the weekend.
> 
> The anti-satellite capability in particular has prompted discussions among military observers.
> 
> Some of the advanced radar systems produced by modern technologies can detect low-Earth orbit aircraft, which often circulate the Earth at an altitude of 300 to 500 kilometers, Wang Ya'nan, a Chinese aviation and space expert and the chief editor of Beijing-based Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times on Sunday.
> 
> If the radar system has a high enough performance, it can not only detect, but also track the satellites, Wang said, noting that this means the radar can then guide weapons to attack the satellites.
> 
> With a displacement of more than 10,000 tons, the Type 055 is a 180-meter-long, 20-meter-wide guided missile destroyer with 112 vertical launch missile cells capable of launching a combination of surface-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles, land-attack missiles and anti-submarine missiles, according to previous media reports.
> 
> Given the large size of the Type 055, it would be naturally able to carry a type of air-defense missile capable of reaching targets in low-Earth orbit, Wang predicted, noting that the radar system used on the Type 055 can also transmit data via data chain to land-based air-defense forces which can launch anti-satellite missiles.
> 
> In a test in 2007, China successfully destroyed a satellite, BBC reported at the time. Liu Jianchao, then spokesperson of the Chinese Foreign Ministry, confirmed the test and stressed China was committed to the peaceful development of outer space.
> 
> US aegis ships also have anti-satellite capabilities. In 2008, a Standard Missile-3 fired from the USS Lake Erie guided missile cruiser struck a crippled US spy satellite, Reuters reported at that time.
> 
> Low-Earth orbit satellites can monitor vast regions of battlefields and provide rich intelligence to their operators. In wartime, if one side can suppress hostile satellites, it can neutralize a key part of a hostile intelligence source and gain an advantage for itself, Wang said.
> 
> While it is also the first time that China's state-owned media has confirmed the Type 055's anti-stealth capability, it is not much of a surprise when compared with its anti-satellite capability, as China has already revealed several types of anti-stealth radar systems in many open occasions, military observers said.
> 
> The US has equipped its Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps with F-35 stealth fighter jets in addition to previously commissioned F-22 stealth fighter jets and B-2 stealth bombers. It is also selling a large amount of F-35s to its allies in the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> This makes anti-stealth capability essential to countering potential threats from US stealth warplanes, analysts said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China’s Type 055 destroyer has anti-stealth, anti-satellite capabilities: report - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn



Any indication the HQ-19 ABM Missiles will be integrated into this ship? If not a follow up version could add 16 cells for them, and be at parity with the largest Aegis ships (now that the US is planning to retire the Ticonderoga class cruisers); South Korea’s Sejong the Great destroyers.


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## Death_Angels

8 pieces is not less?


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## serenity

FuturePAF said:


> Any indication the HQ-19 ABM Missiles will be integrated into this ship? If not a follow up version could add 16 cells for them, and be at parity with the largest Aegis ships (now that the US is planning to retire the Ticonderoga class cruisers); South Korea’s Sejong the Great destroyers.



Counter ballistic missile and satellites even GPS orbit level are part of the job for Type 055. Launch cell always planned to be deep and wide enough to carry current or future generations of Chinese BMD and anti-satellite missiles. I will be surprised if they do not carry these. Even carrying DF-21 modified for anti-ship is suggested. They have two different launch cell depth and the deeper ones can also be used to carry four anti air missiles depending on what kind of purpose the mission is.

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## Grandy

.
*Recenty, in internet circulate Type 055B pictures :*

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## monitor

Grandy said:


> .
> *Recenty, in internet circulate Type 055B pictures :*
> 
> View attachment 680712
> 
> View attachment 680711
> 
> 
> View attachment 680710
> 
> 
> View attachment 680708



Except two barrel main gun is this have any extra capabilities ?


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## IblinI

monitor said:


> Except two barrel main gun is this have any extra capabilities ?


just fan made CG, best guess right now is railgun.

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## Deino

Grandy said:


> .
> *Recenty, in internet circulate Type 055B pictures :*
> 
> View attachment 680712
> 
> View attachment 680711
> 
> 
> View attachment 680710
> 
> 
> View attachment 680708




Oh come on ... once again you present some fancy fan-art, which is based on no reports nor rumours as FACTS!

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## samsara

Sooner or later, either in the next immediate iteration or the one after that, the Type 055B will be part of the new huge wave of build-up as indicated by POP3, part of the expenditures of the Fourteenth Plan. Just wait patiently and sit back relaxedly 

What could be the features? EMRG, IEP, more UVLS, and many more improvements over the existing many-year-designs of the early second decade, or even more likely within the first decade of this century. The time-lapse necessitates lots of improvements to do.

Note: with assumption about the nomenclature, that 055A is already being used (for most of the time I just see 055 without letter). By 055B I mean _one variant after the current one_.

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## ILC

Why type 055B in the next five-year plan and not 055A? I think the previous rumors indicated the following 055 will be 055A.


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## Deino

ILC said:


> Why type 055B in the next five-year plan and not 055A? I think the previous rumors indicated the following 055 will be 055A.




Simply since there is no 055B yet, it is all a fan-made CG and once again hypes up as if it is already a fact!


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## Grandy

Grandy said:


> .
> *Recently, in internet circulate Type 055B pictures :*
> 
> View attachment 680712
> 
> View attachment 680711
> 
> 
> View attachment 680710
> 
> 
> View attachment 680708


Everyones know this picture is CGI from fun impressions, who say it real pictures.

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## LKJ86

Via 海岩

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## Deino

Grandy said:


> Everyones know this picture is CGI from fun impressions, who say it real pictures.




But why then do you call them "Type 055B pictures" and not more correctly "what-if" or "artist impressions of a possible future Type 055B"!?


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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## Death_Angels

TWhat kind of ship is Type-055 compared to its rivals?


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## CAPRICORN-88

Death_Angels said:


> TWhat kind of ship is Type-055 compared to its rivals?


  
A formidable one.

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 681326
> 
> Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo







Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:4570839035609090?from=old_pc_videoshow

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## LKJ86

Three Type 055 DDGs







Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via 王小波

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## Tipu7

What is current status of Type 55 production? 
7 launched, one commissioned, and one under construction? 
Any timelines about induction plans?


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## samsara

Tipu7 said:


> What is current status of Type 55 production?
> 7 launched, one commissioned, and one under construction?
> Any timelines about induction plans?


Check this one 20200831 :: the 8th one. In the span of 38 months, 8 055 Destroyers were launched.








Type 055 DDG News & Discussions


The 8th 055 destroyer was launched today



defence.pk





About the commissioning of any of this class after 101, I have no idea / don't follow closely. Moreover there's no wide publication for such activity in the last 2 years iirc, unlike in the past.

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## Daniel808

samsara said:


> Check this one 20200831 :: the 8th one. In the span of 38 months, 8 055 Destroyers were launched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Type 055 DDG News & Discussions
> 
> 
> The 8th 055 destroyer was launched today
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About the commissioning of any of this class after 101, I have no idea / don't follow closely. Moreover there's no wide publication for such activity in the last 2 years iirc, unlike in the past.



And they will build another 8 unit in the next few years.
To bring Total 16 Unit Type 055 Destroyer

Amazing !

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## LKJ86

Via @捣蛋不捣蛋 from Weibo

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 691574
> 
> Via @捣蛋不捣蛋 from Weibo


From Rupprecht Andreas Deino @RupprechtDeino on 2020.11.29:

_A Type 055 DDG in the South China Sea. 
Allegedly spotted near the Yulin Naval Base at Hainan._

(Image via Via @捣蛋不捣蛋 from Weibo)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333008508221009920

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## LKJ86

Via @从小就黑 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## Zarvan

What cruise missiles are being used in Type 52 D. Can any one tell their names and their ranges ?? @LKJ86


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## LKJ86

Zarvan said:


> What cruise missiles are being used in Type 52 D. Can any one tell their names and their ranges ?? @LKJ86


YJ-18

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## Zarvan

LKJ86 said:


> YJ-18


YJ-18 doesn't have that much range. Any chance of 1500 KM range cruise missile ???


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## LKJ86

Zarvan said:


> YJ-18 doesn't have that much range. Any chance of 1500 KM range cruise missile ???


YJ-18 doesn't only have anti-ship variants.

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## LKJ86

Via https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:4578869110308900?from=old_pc_videoshow

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## Akasa

LKJ86 said:


> YJ-18 doesn't only have anti-ship variants.



What's the progress on the development of the land-attack YJ-18?

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## casual

Zarvan said:


> YJ-18 doesn't have that much range. Any chance of 1500 KM range cruise missile ???


There are rumors of development into ballistic missiles with HGV warheads for the type 055 like DF17. China doesn't really do cruise missiles.

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## vi-va

Zarvan said:


> YJ-18 doesn't have that much range. Any chance of 1500 KM range cruise missile ???


YJ-18C

CJ-10 has the range of >1500 km, but too large. It's a land attack cruise missile.

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## Zarvan

vi-va said:


> YJ-18C
> 
> CJ-10 has the range of >1500 km, but too large. It's a land attack cruise missile.


What is length of CJ 10 ?


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## vi-va

Zarvan said:


> What is length of CJ 10 ?












you can guess.

DF-100 is much bigger than CJ-10(DF-10)

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## samsara

Zarvan said:


> What is length of CJ 10 ?


I did you a service, here's the specs according to the GlobalSecurity.org version:



> *Land-Attack Cruise Missiles (LACM) - Specifications*
> The reported specifications are at wide variance, and can only be considered best estimates by western military analysts. Some of the smaller dimensions and higher performance numbers seem to assume that the Chinese have simply replicated the American Tomahawk, while the larger dimensions and lower performance suggest a "Tomahawk with Chinese characteristics", reflecting the general Chinese lag in engine technology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China/U.S. DesignationDH-10 (DF-10)/CJ-10Missile VariantsCJ-20 / YJ-100 / DH-2000 / DF-10A / CJ-10KDesigner/ProducerPeople’s Republic of ChinamanufacturerChina Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation Third Research InstituteStatusOperationalIOC2006RetirementStill in serviceMobility and RoleRoad Mobile / Surface-to-surface / Land-Attack Cruise MissileLaunch platformWS2400 8 x 8 TEL (CJ-10/10A) triple installation
> Type 093G submarine [probably not as of 2019]
> Type 052D destroyer
> Type 055 destroyer
> H-6K strategic bomber (CJ-20 / KD-20)Number of Units40-55 GLCM Launchers - 200-500 missiles “est”Range1500-2000 km
> 1500~2500 km
> 2,000km / 930 nautical miles / 1,070 miles
> *2200 – 2500 km*
> 4,000+ kmlaunch weight1090 kg
> 1800 kg
> *2.5 tons*Length6300 mm
> *7.2 m
> 8.3 meters w/ booster*Diameter514 mm
> *0.60 meters*
> 0.68 meters
> 0.75 mWingspan3100 mmbooster Stages/PropellantSingle/Solidsustainer engine typeR95-300 turbofanFlight speedMach 0.75 (917 km / h)
> Mach 0.8Flight ceilingabout 10,000 feetFlight altitude30-50/150 meters
> 50-150 meters
> about 10,000 feetWarhead TypeNuclear or ConventionalWarhead Weight300~500 kg
> 450-500 kilogram (1000-1100 pound)MIRV?No MIRV capabilityYield20-90 kt
> 300ktCruise Guidance System
> Inertial + satellite
> inertial + terrain matching + satellite
> terminal guidanceoptical scene matching composite guidancecircular error probable (CEP)5-10 meters
> 10 meters
> 100~300 metersSystem reaction time10 sec.

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## Deino

#102 'Lhasa' already commissioned?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336324083575767041

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via https://www.wenweipo.com/a/202012/14/AP5fd71930e4b0f97fb5d7982e.html

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## LKJ86

Via @半岛王牌柳京守 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

December 26, 2020










Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## waja2000

Zarvan said:


> What is length of CJ 10 ?



8.3 meter


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## LKJ86

Via https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:4586736202743844?from=old_pc_videoshow

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## samsara

Ship #3 105 Dalian !?

055 listed *here*.

Otherwise it's Ship #4 106 Yanʼan



LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 700330
> 
> Via https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:4586736202743844?from=old_pc_videoshow

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## Deino

samsara said:


> Ship #3 105 Dalian !?
> 
> 055 listed *here*.
> 
> Otherwise it's Ship #4 106 Yanʼan




Indeed 105!

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## LKJ86

Via @悲伤de心弦 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @郭涛_XM from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via@利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 700854
> 
> Via @悲伤de心弦 from Weibo


*The second unit of the Type 055 DDG: Dalian (105) has been commissioned* into the PLA Navy South Sea Fleet (SSF) on 25 December 2020. Nowadays the military no longer reports such news, so folks must resort to other less official news like _this one_ (Fig.2 - Row #2).

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7195681085

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## samsara

From 逆襲 @horobeyo on 2021.01.23:

055、052D、阿利·伯克级及其猴版、伯克III（计划）和伯克III（实际）的建模对比
作者CD@baoxiuyuan

关于伯克级的干舷高度和长宽比，CD上有不同意见。
所以不必当做参考基准，大致意思一下就行。

_Modeling comparison of Type 055, 052D, Arleigh Burke class destroyers and its variants, Burke III (planned) and Burke III (actual)_
Author: CD@baoxiuyuan

_There are different opinions on CD about the freeboard height and aspect ratio of Arleigh Burke class. So don't use it as a reference, just to give some rough idea._


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352890301933785089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352893312139550720
055船体宽度20.X米，一说20.8，略大于伯克20.4米，小于失踪大王和摩耶的21米+，055的最大宽度在腰线处，伯克及其猴版的最大宽度在舰桥前甲板处，所以055与之相比在视觉上显得重心更低、现在汽配城里不是有个改装风格叫“低趴”嘛，注重隐身设计的外观同样在视觉上也会显小，导致难以拍出气势雄伟的照片 

The 055's hull width is 20.x meters, according to some is 20.8 meters, slightly larger than Burke's 20.4 meters and smaller than the missing, "The king and the Maya" (??) (大王和摩耶), which is 21+ meters. The maximum width of 055 is at the waist line, and the maximum width of Burke and his variant version is at the front deck of the bridge, so 055's visual center of gravity is lower than that of Burke. Now there is a refitting style called "low lying" in the (汽配城 ???), and the appearance of paying attention to stealth design is also visible, It is difficult to take magnificent photos because of its small size.

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## LKJ86

Via https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7218023310

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## LKJ86

*102*




Via Google Earth and www.haohanfw.com

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 722152
> 
> Via Google Earth and www.haohanfw.com




Most important is this one!

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## samsara

From Rupprecht Andreas Deino @RupprechtDeino on 2021.03.05:

#PLAN *Type 055 DDG no. **102* *'Lhasa'* has been spotted with its pennant number '102' painted on the heli-deck.

(Image via Google Earth and http://haohanfw.com)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367779815504379907

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## Polestar 2

samsara said:


> From Rupprecht Andreas Deino @RupprechtDeino on 2021.03.05:
> 
> #PLAN *Type 055 DDG no. **102* *'Lhasa'* has been spotted with its pennant number '102' painted on the heli-deck.
> 
> (Image via Google Earth and http://haohanfw.com)
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367779815504379907


Long overdue. It's possible another may commission this year, maybe end of year.

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## Team Blue

Seriously. Haven't seen a new one in forever. Get to lord this over some coworkers who thought the PRC shipbuilding had stagnated.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Team Blue said:


> Get to lord this over some coworkers who thought the PRC shipbuilding had stagnated.


In their dreams!

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## vi-va



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## samsara

_Some interior cabin pictures of __Type 055 #102 Lhasa 拉萨  (the capital city of the Tibet Autonomous Region)_ _from 逆襲 @horobeyo:_

















_The Destroyer Lhasa #102 is decorated with Potala Palace_





_The chair covers are applying the Tibetan embroidery with shimmering patterns (Henri Kenhmann)_











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367872757338316804

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367872844101677059
_Inside the destroyer 102 Lhasa 拉萨, of the Type 055 class, which bears the name of the capital city of Tibet Autonomous Region.

The warship is currently located at its base port near Qingdao.


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367883073056952320_

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## Deino

And do we have any news about 103 & 104?


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## Team Blue

ZeEa5KPul said:


> In their dreams!


Right? You've seen some of my other stuff. I think some of them feel a need to compensate in front of the Chinese guy.

Also update: I lorded it and it was glorious.

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## jaybird

samsara said:


> _Some interior cabin pictures of __Type 055 #102 Lhasa 拉萨  (the capital city of the Tibet Autonomous Region)_ _from 逆襲 @horobeyo:_
> 
> View attachment 722463
> 
> View attachment 722464
> 
> View attachment 722465
> 
> View attachment 722466
> 
> _The Destroyer Lhasa #102 is decorated with Potala Palace_
> 
> View attachment 722467
> 
> _The chair covers are applying the Tibetan embroidery with shimmering patterns (Henri Kenhmann)_
> 
> View attachment 722468
> 
> View attachment 722469
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367872757338316804
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367872844101677059
> _Inside the destroyer 102 Lhasa 拉萨, of the Type 055 class, which bears the name of the capital city of Tibet Autonomous Region.
> 
> The warship is currently located at its base port near Qingdao.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367883073056952320_



Western Press headline tomorrow: 

Chinese CCP just built # 102 military prison in Lhasa run by PLAN for genocide purpose of Tibet. Here are the exclusive photos taken from inside the prison decorated with Potala Palace as prove.

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## samsara

*China's second 10,000 ton-class destroyer enters naval service*
*CGTN (2021-03-08)*

_A *Type 055 large destroyer* named after __*Lhasa*__, the capital of Southwest China's Tibet Autonomous Region, recently made its first public appearance at a naval base in *Qingdao*, East China's Shandong Province. This makes the Lhasa the second Type 055 destroyer that has entered service with the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy._









China’s second 10,000 ton-class destroyer enters naval service







news.cgtn.com

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## samsara

jaybird said:


> Western Press headline tomorrow:
> 
> Chinese CCP just built # 102 military prison in Lhasa run by PLAN for genocide purpose of Tibet. Here are the exclusive photos taken from inside the prison decorated with Potala Palace as prove.


I am indeed awaiting some large surface asset, really large, for *Xinjiang* in commensurate with its landmass, about *one sixth of the entire China*, thus must be carrier-level for Xinjiang itself, and some key cities in the vast province such as Kashgar (Kashi), Karamay, Turpan, Hami, and etc. for other naval surface assets. I recall its capital city, Urumqi, has been adopted.

*In term of landmass, at 1.665 million square kilometers Xinjiang is as large as:*

over 3x mainland France
over 4.4x Japan
over 5.5x Italy
over 6.2x New Zealand
over 7.9x Britain
Thus this province and its key cities deserve naming for good & large Chinese naval assets!!!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Deino said:


> And do we have any news about 103 & 104?



103 and 104 were launched a few months after 102. They should be commissioned later this year.

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## Polestar 2

samsara said:


> _Some interior cabin pictures of __Type 055 #102 Lhasa 拉萨  (the capital city of the Tibet Autonomous Region)_ _from 逆襲 @horobeyo:_
> 
> View attachment 722463
> 
> View attachment 722464
> 
> View attachment 722465
> 
> View attachment 722466
> 
> _The Destroyer Lhasa #102 is decorated with Potala Palace_
> 
> View attachment 722467
> 
> _The chair covers are applying the Tibetan embroidery with shimmering patterns (Henri Kenhmann)_
> 
> View attachment 722468
> 
> View attachment 722469
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367872757338316804
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367872844101677059
> _Inside the destroyer 102 Lhasa 拉萨, of the Type 055 class, which bears the name of the capital city of Tibet Autonomous Region.
> 
> The warship is currently located at its base port near Qingdao.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367883073056952320_


Seriously, the living accommodation design looks very outdated but still decent comfort.

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## LKJ86

Via @北海舰队 from Weixin

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## lcloo

A larger and much clearer photo of 101 cruising towards Japan Sea. Photo from MOD Japan.

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## samsara

samsara said:


> 055老婆目前的情况：
> 
> 江南造船厂
> 1号舰 101南昌 现役
> 2号舰 102拉萨 即将服役
> 5号舰 103鞍山 舾装中
> 7号舰 104 X X 舾装中
> 
> 大连造船厂
> 3号舰 105大连 海试中
> 4号舰 106延安 舾装中
> 6号舰 107遵义 舾装中
> 8号舰 108 X X 船坞分段总装
> 
> *The current circumstances of the Type 055 DDG:
> 
> Jiangnan Shipyard*
> Ship #1 101 Nanchang, in active service
> Ship #2 102 Lhasa, to be commissioned
> Ship #5 103 Anshan, being outfitted
> Ship #7 104 X X, being outfitted
> 
> *Dalian Shipyard*
> Ship #3 105 Dalian, under sea trial
> Ship #4 106 Yanʼan, being outfitted
> Ship #6 107 Zunyi, being outfitted
> Ship #8 108 X X, under section assembly at dry dock
> 
> Nanchang is the birthplace of PLA
> Yanʼan and Zunyi are the crucial spots of Long March
> 
> Some is wondering why Anshan made its place among the list, what's its significance
> 
> 2020.07.02:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278715175248572416


*Type 055 - naming and estimated schedule*

101 Nanchang 南昌 in service
102 Lhasa 拉萨 in service
103 Anshan 鞍山 est. beg/2022 (estimation for service time)
104 Wuxi 无锡 est. end/2022
105 Dalian 大连 est. mid/2021
106 Yanʼan 延安 est. end/2021
107 Zunyi 遵义 est. beg/2023
108 N/A est. end/2023

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

With 055 taking over the destroyer role. Type 052D be delegated to heavy frigate role and Type 054A delegated to light frigate role.

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## jaybird

lcloo said:


> A larger and much clearer photo of 101 cruising towards Japan Sea. Photo from MOD Japan.
> 
> View attachment 726401



Thank you Japan for the nice photo of 055. Hopefully you guys will share more photos of PLAN ships and planes in the future. It's good to see 055 from different perspective.

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## yusheng

it is said 106 left factory to enlist

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## Deino

yusheng said:


> View attachment 733939
> 
> it is said 106 left factory to enlist




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1384784254656155650

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## Char

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1384784254656155650



Yan'an is the Holy Land of the Chinese Revolution, that luminous pagoda represents Yan'an.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @人民画报 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## Char



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @南海舰队 from Weixin

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## Polestar 2

Actually 4 ships commission on the same day.

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## Deino

Polestar 2 said:


> Actually 4 ships commission on the same day.




Four?? Which is the fourth?


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## sheik

Deino said:


> Four?? Which is the fourth?



He probably meant 052DL Kaieng (hull number 124), which seemed to be commissioned earlier on 4/16.

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## english_man

Deino said:


> Four?? Which is the fourth?





Deino said:


> Four?? Which is the fourth?


Well..........i too thought it was 4, as it was stated on Chinese Wiki that a 052D Destroyer had been commissioned elsewhere on the 23rd April, but it was later noted that the date had changed on that site to the 16th. Anyway 4 ships in just a few days is remarkable. Well if you go back to the 12th April another 052D was commissioned then..................so that's actually 5 major warships for the PLAN in one month. A 094 Nuclear Ballistic sub, the first 075 LHD, the 3rd 055 Cruiser/Destroyer and the 18th & 19th 052D Destroyers.

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## english_man

Seeing these great images................and with the 055 next to the 075 LHD. It makes you realise how big this 055 is. I mean i've been on a RN type 45, and that is a fairly big Destroyer, but nothing like the size of the 055. I can see why the Americans call the type 055 Cruisers!

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## lcloo

One of the last few to be commissioned next year.

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## TOTUU

another ship

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## samsara

Is there any hint or news that the next batch of 055 has been starting its construction at present?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ship number 106 Yanan will soon be commissioned. It was launched the same day as ship number 105

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## Deino

Tai Hai Chen said:


> ship number 106 Yanan will soon be commissioned. It was launched the same day as ship number 105




Here a bit bigger

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## LKJ86

Via 胡子 and 玉海

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## lcloo

Henri Kenhmann posted this East Pendulum tweeter message on type 055.

"Type 055, 101 Nanchang, il sera très vite démodé..."
Chinese translation: 055型，101南昌，它会很快老式。。。
English translation: Type 055, 101 Nanchang, it will be very quickly old-fashioned ...

Is he indicating the new type 055B will be vastly different from 055A? Or the new star attraction in Chinese Navy watching will be focusing on something else like 003, 09IV, 09V or whatever?

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## jaybird

lcloo said:


> Henri Kenhmann posted this East Pendulum tweeter message on type 055.
> 
> "Type 055, 101 Nanchang, il sera très vite démodé..."
> Chinese translation: 055型，101南昌，它会很快老式。。。
> English translation: Type 055, 101 Nanchang, it will be very quickly old-fashioned ...
> 
> Is he indicating the new type 055B will be vastly different from 055A? Or the new star attraction in Chinese Navy watching will be focusing on something else like 003, 09IV, 09V or whatever?



Maybe he is hinting 055B technological revolution from 055A like the rumored upgrade of electromagnetic railguns and integrated electric propulsion etc. 

Kinda of like 052B to 052C/D. 052B is very quickly old-fashioned. If he meant other new star projects, I would think he would use words like "new love" or 'new interest" for the Chinese navy watching community.

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## Polestar 2

jaybird said:


> Maybe he is hinting 055B technological revolution from 055A like the rumored upgrade of electromagnetic railguns and integrated electric propulsion etc.
> 
> Kinda of like 052B to 052C/D. 052B is very quickly old-fashioned. If he meant other new star projects, I would think he would use words like "new love" or 'new interest" for the Chinese navy watching community.


I bet PLAN will surely send 101 for a major upgrade on its next shipyard maintenance.


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## Deino

Polestar 2 said:


> I bet PLAN will surely send 101 for a major upgrade on its next shipyard maintenance.




Why ? It just entered service in January 2020, so either the PLAN or its yards made a very bad job if the ship needs a major upgrade after only one year.

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## Polestar 2

Deino said:


> Why ? It just entered service in January 2020, so either the PLAN or its yards made a very bad job if the ship needs a major upgrade after only one year.


Did I say next year or a year later after in service?

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## english_man

Polestar 2 said:


> Did I say next year or a year later after in service?


Why is everyone here being silly about saying the 055 will be outdated quickly?..........i mean its probably the newest, most technically advanced Destroyer class at present in the world? Of course future classes or iterations of the type 055 will have better tech, but to suggest that a warship class, in which even the lead ship is barely a year old, needs a MLU, is beyond ridiculous. I would imagine the first batch of type 055's not to have a MLU until at least the middle of the 2030's.

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## casual

english_man said:


> Why is everyone here being silly about saying the 055 will be outdated quickly?..........i mean its probably the newest, most technically advanced Destroyer class at present in the world? Of course future classes or iterations of the type 055 will have better tech, but to suggest that a warship class, in which even the lead ship is barely a year old, needs a MLU, is beyond ridiculous. I would imagine the first batch of type 055's not to have a MLU until at least the middle of the 2030's.


I just hope the next batch of 055s will be an upgraded version.

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## bshifter

english_man said:


> i mean its probably the newest, most technically advanced Destroyer class at present in the world?


Not according to this piece








Should the Indian Navy worry about China's new warship?


Since 2008, China has commissioned over 60 missile-armed surface ships




www.theweek.in





Indian destroyers on par with 055?

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## lcloo

english_man said:


> Why is everyone here being silly about saying the 055 will be outdated quickly?..........i mean its probably the newest, most technically advanced Destroyer class at present in the world? Of course future classes or iterations of the type 055 will have better tech, but to suggest that a warship class, in which even the lead ship is barely a year old, needs a MLU, is beyond ridiculous. I would imagine the first batch of type 055's not to have a MLU until at least the middle of the 2030's.


The words written by Henri Kehnmann was "out of fashion". Type 055 is still the most advance ship in China, probably among Asian navies as well.

What Henri Kehnmann meant is probably China watchers's attention will soon shifted to something more attractive, it may or may not be type 055. 

We will see what the new attraction will be soon. May be a new aircraft carrier "004", may be a new boomer or nuclear attack sub, or may be new generation of navy weapons like laser and railgun and IEP type 055. We shall wait and see.

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Why ? It just entered service in January 2020, so either the PLAN or its yards made a very bad job if the ship needs a major upgrade after only one year.


Some simply think the money just falls from the sky or grows at the "heavenly money tree"  

I know the German are relatively thrifty people even in today's world, so do Chinese people in general, though some nouveau riche may act completely different!

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## zectech

samsara said:


> Some simply think the money just falls from the sky or grows at the "heavenly money tree"
> 
> I know the German are relatively thrifty people even in today's world, so do Chinese people in general, though some nouveau riche may act completely different!



You are joked.






Donald Trump demands China ‘pay $10 trillion’ for its handling of covid


https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/donald-trump-demands-china-pay-10-trillion-for-its-handling-of-covid/news-story/f78d935e59a6222c9168c97bb4101bb1 ------------------------------ I agree, if they don't pay restitution, we must sanction them further and force EU and others...



defence.pk





Better to spend 10 trillion USD (64 trillion yuan) on Chinese military ASATs, Subs, missiles, hundreds of thousands of ICBM nukes, stealth bombers and stealth long range fighters, ADS, ABM, EW R&D, ECM R&D, laser weapons, etc. Than pay that same amount to the usa over a bioweapon released on the world to blame China and stop the rise of China.

Increase China's military budget to an additional 2 trillion USD per year for the next 5 years.

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## Deino

english_man said:


> Why is everyone here being silly about saying the 055 will be outdated quickly?




Everyone? IMO it was only one!

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## LKJ86

Via @开心包子铺分铺 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @北海舰队 from Weixin

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## MH.Yang

zectech said:


> You are joked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump demands China ‘pay $10 trillion’ for its handling of covid
> 
> 
> https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/donald-trump-demands-china-pay-10-trillion-for-its-handling-of-covid/news-story/f78d935e59a6222c9168c97bb4101bb1 ------------------------------ I agree, if they don't pay restitution, we must sanction them further and force EU and others...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better to spend 10 trillion USD (64 trillion yuan) on Chinese military ASATs, Subs, missiles, hundreds of thousands of ICBM nukes, stealth bombers and stealth long range fighters, ADS, ABM, EW R&D, ECM R&D, laser weapons, etc. Than pay that same amount to the usa over a bioweapon released on the world to blame China and stop the rise of China.
> 
> Increase China's military budget to an additional 2 trillion USD per year for the next 5 years.


We can do this: 
1. Increase the number of N-weapons to 2000 to deter some crazy people from taking military risks. 
2. Doubling the PLAN.
The PLAN will be to 8 heavy aircraft carriers + 8*075 + 8*076,
24*055 (055a),
72*052c / D / E, 
80*054A / B and 100*056

China's shipbuilding capacity is 30 times that of the USA(per year 12 million tons:0.4 million tons)

The cost of shipbuilding in China is less than half that in the USA
055's cost is $0.9 billion.
Burke's cost $1.85 billion.

How does the USA respond to this situation?
Relinquish control of the sea？Or double the military spending? 10% GDP,like the Soviet Union?

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## Brainsucker

MH.Yang said:


> We can do this:
> 1. Increase the number of N-weapons to 2000 to deter some crazy people from taking military risks.
> 2. Doubling the PLAN.
> The PLAN will be to 8 heavy aircraft carriers + 8*075 + 8*076,
> 24*055 (055a),
> 72*052c / D / E,
> 80*054A / B and 100*056
> 
> China's shipbuilding capacity is 30 times that of the USA(per year 12 million tons:0.4 million tons)
> 
> The cost of shipbuilding in China is less than half that in the USA
> 055's cost is $0.9 billion.
> Burke's cost $1.85 billion.
> 
> How does the USA respond to this situation?
> Relinquish control of the sea？Or double the military spending? 10% GDP,like the Soviet Union?



I think 055 is not cheaper than Burke. The price of both ships are counted in USD, so 055 would look cheaper. But actually China paid 055 with RMB, not USD. Unless China imported some of 055 modules / techs with USD, you can't use USD to determined 055 true price / true value.


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## MH.Yang

Brainsucker said:


> I think 055 is not cheaper than Burke. The price of both ships are counted in USD, so 055 would look cheaper. But actually China paid 055 with RMB, not USD. Unless China imported some of 055 modules / techs with USD, you can't use USD to determined 055 true price / true value.





Brainsucker said:


> I think 055 is not cheaper than Burke. The price of both ships are counted in USD, so 055 would look cheaper. But actually China paid 055 with RMB, not USD. Unless China imported some of 055 modules / techs with USD, you can't use USD to determined 055 true price / true value.


The cost of 055 is 6 billion CNY, equivalent to $0.9 billion.

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## Abid123

MH.Yang said:


> The cost of 055 is 6 billion CNY, equivalent to $0.9 billion.


What about Type 052D?


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## MH.Yang

Abid123 said:


> What about Type 052D?


3.2 billion CNY, equivalent to $0.5billion.

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## Brainsucker

MH.Yang said:


> The cost of 055 is 6 billion CNY, equivalent to $0.9 billion.


You're right in common perception. Except that if the price that china must pay to build 055 is using usd, it will be more expensive than it is now


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## MH.Yang

Brainsucker said:


> You're right in common perception. Except that if the price that china must pay to build 055 is using usd, it will be more expensive than it is now


It doesn't cost US dollars, because every screw is made by ourselves, 100% pure domestic.

Because of this, we spend less, not more.

Our factory builds 12 million tons of ships every year because they only receive 12 million tons of orders, and their production capacity is 10 times higher than this figure

We need not spend any foreign exchange on building warships. We will only need increase orders for our factories and stimulate economic development.

It's better than the USA giving people cash directly. The United States lacks manufacturing. Their government spending will cause prices to rise, but China will not.
Our production capacity is seriously surplus, and the government's spending on warships will only stimulate economic development. We need to import a small amount of iron ore from Russia at most.



By the way, let's remind some common sense: 
1，China's proven iron ore reserves are the 4th in the world, 4 times that of India and 7 times that of the United States.
2，China has the 3rd largest proven coal reserves in the world, accounting for 13.3% of the world's proven reserves.
Contrary to what many people think, China is not short of minerals, but we have sealed up most of the minerals without mining. Because we have too much trade surplus, we need to balance trade with the world.

Those who think we rely on external resources will make serious miscalculations in wartime. In addition, our neighbor Russia also has a lot of resources.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Brainsucker said:


> You're right in common perception. Except that if the price that china must pay to build 055 is using usd, it will be more expensive than it is now



 

_How about doing this instead? 
USA should order more of its Zumwalt destroyers in US shipyard by opting to pay for them in RMB instead of US dollar then it would be much cheaper, right. 

_

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## waja2000

MH.Yang said:


> The cost of shipbuilding in China is less than half that in the USA
> 055's cost is $0.9 billion.
> Burke's cost $1.85 billion.
> 
> How does the USA respond to this situation?
> Relinquish control of the sea？Or double the military spending? 10% GDP,like the Soviet Union?



Arleigh Burke Flight III cost for “complete ship” may up to usd 2.4b each,


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## FuturePAF

casual said:


> I just hope the next batch of 055s will be an upgraded version.


Might have a 200 mile range rail gun if they can get that technology working.


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## Brainsucker

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _How about doing this instead?
> USA should order more of its Zumwalt destroyers in US shipyard by opting to pay for them in RMB instead of US dollar then it would be much cheaper, right.
> 
> _



More of if China build Zumwalt destroyer in China shipyard by paying for them in RMB, then Zumwalt cost will be drop significantly. It also the same, if USA build a 055 destroyer in US shipyard with USD, Type 055 price will raise significantly. Even more expensive than Burke Flight 3.

What I mean is, 055 is cheaper than burke flight 3 is not because it is a cheap product, but more of USD - RMB exhange rate matter.

If somehow 1 USD = 1 RMB, even 052D will be seen as more expensive than burke flight 3.

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## lcloo

Brainsucker said:


> More of if China build Zumwalt destroyer in China shipyard by paying for them in RMB, then Zumwalt cost will be drop significantly. It also the same, if USA build a 055 destroyer in US shipyard with USD, Type 055 price will raise significantly. Even more expensive than Burke Flight 3.
> 
> What I mean is, 055 is cheaper than burke flight 3 is not because it is a cheap product, but more of USD - RMB exhange rate matter.
> 
> If somehow 1 USD = 1 RMB, even 052D will be seen as more expensive than burke flight 3.


Actually it reflects US capitalist profit margin vs Chinese socialist profit margin in warship contracts.

Last I heard state owned shipyards in China are making single digit profit on warships, their main profits comes from commercial ships, but building war ships give them prestige and good publicity.

On the US side huge profit margins are normal, part of it were to be paid to lobbyists in the Capitol Hill.

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## siegecrossbow

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _How about doing this instead?
> USA should order more of its Zumwalt destroyers in US shipyard by opting to pay for them in RMB instead of US dollar then it would be much cheaper, right.
> 
> _



Then you’d be paying the worker in RMB, which is not a livable wage in the US.


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## CAPRICORN-88

siegecrossbow said:


> Then you’d be paying the worker in RMB, which is not a livable wage in the US.



_That is why today we measured the income and wealth in different countries using PPP exchange rates instead of blindly refering to nominal GDP.

Workers being paid 2 US dollar per day in USA may be considered as slavery but in India, it feeds an entire family. 

By understanding the metrics of relative wealth regarding local goods and services at domestic markets instead of a blind comparison of US dollar vs RMB. 
An inaccurate and different yardstick. 

The best way for Americans to understand this is to compare the prices of burger in both nation. _

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## waja2000

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _That is why today we measured the income and wealth in different countries using PPP exchange rates instead of blindly refering to nominal GDP.
> 
> The best way for Americans to understand this is to compare the prices of burger in both nation. _



GDP usually to see scale of economic size of country.


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## Daniel808

The Most Powerful Warship from Eastern World 

*Type 055 Heavy Destroyer DDG-105 PLANS Dalian from China's Navy Southern Theater Fleet*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1435514644047618049

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## MajesticPug

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _That is why today we measured the income and wealth in different countries using PPP exchange rates instead of blindly refering to nominal GDP.
> 
> Workers being paid 2 US dollar per day in USA may be considered as slavery but in India, it feeds an entire family.
> 
> By understanding the metrics of relative wealth regarding local goods and services at domestic markets instead of a blind comparison of US dollar vs RMB.
> An inaccurate and different yardstick.
> 
> The best way for Americans to understand this is to compare the prices of burger in both nation. _



Some Americans understand the price differences in hot dogs too, not just burgers.

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## IblinI

how many 052d,055 being inducted this year?


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## luciferdd

Type 055 destroyer's firing video(original sound)

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## lcloo

Two type 055. #101 and #102.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

I hope they can commission the 4th ship this year. If not, guess we'll have to wait till next year for that.


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## CAPRICORN-88

lcloo said:


> Two type 055. #101 and #102.
> View attachment 786685


_The deadly duo. 
Will #103 or #104 be different such as being fitted with a railgun?_

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## Deino

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _The deadly duo.
> Will #103 or #104 be different such as being fitted with a railgun?_




No, since they are already all out up to 106 I think and all are more or less the same, I think the later batch from Dalian has a revised smoke-stack however.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

No more commissioning this year?


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## lcloo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> No more commissioning this year?


Le 4e destroyer Type 055 de série, 106 Yan'an, serait livré à la marine chinoise. Son admission au service actif devrait avoir lieu avant la fin d'année.

Henry K/ East Pendulum

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

lcloo said:


> Le 4e destroyer Type 055 de série, 106 Yan'an, serait livré à la marine chinoise. Son admission au service actif devrait avoir lieu avant la fin d'année.
> 
> Henry K/ East Pendulum



WFT? Speak English man.


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## lcloo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> WFT? Speak English man.


n’êtes-vous pas Canadien?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

lcloo said:


> View attachment 789243
> 
> 
> n’êtes-vous pas Canadien?



Yeah but I don't speak French. Immigrant.

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## FuturePAF

Any chance the x band mast will be added to a follow on to the Type 052DL design; a Type 052E, similar to the American Arleigh Burke AMDR?


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## sheik

The 4th Type 055, Anshan, was commissioned on 11/11.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sheik said:


> The 4th Type 055, Anshan, was commissioned on 11/11.
> 
> View attachment 793138
> 
> 
> View attachment 793139



Fake.


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## shi12jun

*106 Yan'an Ship



*

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## RealNapster

MH.Yang said:


> 3.2 billion CNY, equivalent to $0.5billion.



$ 500 million is too less for a ship like 052D. If it's indeed this price than I don't think Pakistan navy will be reluctant much to buy it citing cost reasons. Though operating cost may cause the nay.


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## vi-va

RealNapster said:


> $ 500 million is too less for a ship like 052D. If it's indeed this price than I don't think Pakistan navy will be reluctant much to buy it citing cost reasons. Though operating cost may cause the nay.


500 millions is the ship, not everything included. Just like fighter jet, you need missiles, bombs, parts, logistics, overhaul factory and many others stuff, as well as training, and other weapons to work with it.

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## RealNapster

vi-va said:


> 500 millions is the ship, not everything included. Just like fighter jet, you need missiles, bombs, parts, logistics, overhaul factory and many others stuff, as well as training, and other weapons to work with it.



Good point. Still it won't make the ship cross $650 million and that's still less. But than again I know operating cost will also be high. So it's good (preferable) for Pakistan to arm low tonnage ships (2000-3500 ton) in numbers. They don't have endurance or more than 15-18 days but that's enough for a navy which have no plans of being a blue water navy

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## vi-va

RealNapster said:


> Good point. Still it won't make the ship cross $650 million and that's still less. But than again I know operating cost will also be high. So it's good (preferable) for Pakistan to arm low tonnage ships (2000-3500 ton) in numbers. They don't have endurance or more than 15-18 days but that's enough for a navy which have no plans of being a blue water navy


Agree with your point.

My two cents:

What's Pakistan Navy strategic and doctrine? Weapons are the tools work for strategy and doctrine.

Pakistan navy opposing force is India Air Force and India Navy. But Pakistan major threat is not from the sea, it's from the land, the east side.

At this stage, Pakistan Navy is designed to help Pakistan Air Force and Army to protect seacoast, push India submarine and Air Force further from seacoast.

The destroyer is designed to protect major navy assets in the open ocean, such as aircraft carriers. Aircraft carrier is not Pakistan navy priority in the near future.

On the other hand, Pakistan Air Force can do almost all the job of destroyer along seacoast. Land based anti-submarine aircraft, land based anti-ship missiles, land based surface-to-air missiles are much more cost-effective than destroyer, much more robust.

In summery, Pakistan Air Force is the major force to protect Pakistan East side and seacoast. While navy is complement, secondary at this stage.

Pakistan use budget smarter than India, and much more cautious.

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## RealNapster

vi-va said:


> Agree with your point.
> 
> My two cents:
> 
> What's Pakistan Navy strategic and doctrine? Weapons are the tools work for strategy and doctrine.
> 
> Pakistan navy opposing force is India Air Force and India Navy. But Pakistan major threat is not from the sea, it's from the land, the east side.
> 
> At this stage, Pakistan Navy is designed to help Pakistan Air Force and Army to protect seacoast, push India submarine and Air Force further from seacoast.
> 
> The destroyer is designed to protect major navy assets in the open ocean, such as aircraft carriers. Aircraft carrier is not Pakistan navy priority in the near future.
> 
> On the other hand, Pakistan Air Force can do almost all the job of destroyer along seacoast. Land based anti-submarine aircraft, land based anti-ship missiles, land based surface-to-air missiles are much more cost-effective than destroyer, much more robust.
> 
> In summery, Pakistan Air Force is the major force to protect Pakistan East side and seacoast. While navy is complement, secondary at this stage.
> 
> Pakistan use budget smarter than India, and much more cautious.




That's exactly what Pakistan armed forces and strategic command is doing and should be doing. Our (Pdf enthusiasts) love for 052D should not change our doctrine. We have multiple airbases along our coast line. We have land based anti-ship missiles on our coast. We have FAC's armed with 200+ km Anti ship missiles. So yah, in war or peace, the true objective of Pakistan navy is to avoid blockade, prevent damage to coastal infrastructure and cause severe damage to attacking Indian navy ships. And this can be achieved by land based systems along small tonnage ships (2000-3500 ton).

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## Shotgunner51

vi-va said:


> destroyer is designed to protect major navy assets in the *open ocean*


Open ocean is the key word, that's what assets like 052D destroyers were designed for: Combat in "blue waters".

Putting aside strategic defense roles (BMD/ASAT) of 055, most destroyers are centered around building theater AD for blue water fleets.

When it comes to PN doctrine, it's more about coastal defence at least in older days, so smaller warships operating within combat radius of land-based forces are adequate. But there is quite a change to that doctrine in recent years, it includes building a sea-based second strike capability (with S20 operating within CM range to coast/inland targets). This game changing factor along with Pakistan's gradually expanding trade/maritime economic interests require PN to push further away from shore. PN will need larger warships, but will still safely operate within combat radius of an "extended range" land-based forces. Before PN doctrine change to "blue water", I think PN will focus on building a balanced/comprehensive force structure that can win a war in waters within CM range from shore.

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467796183842111492

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## Shotgunner51

H/PJ−45 130mm naval gun

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## ChineseTiger1986

The fourth Type 055 with pennant number 103 "Anshan" was commissioned on November 11 2021.

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## Shotgunner51

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486335202008121345

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## ChineseTiger1986

Type 055 #9 & #10

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## Shotgunner51

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Type 055 #9 & #10


In Dalian? Good news on 2nd batch (another 8 hulls I suppose)


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## ChineseTiger1986

Shotgunner51 said:


> In Dalian? Good news on 2nd batch (another 8 hulls I suppose)



Soon hulls #11 & #12 will also move into that shipyard.


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## Shotgunner51

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Soon hulls #11 & #12 will also move into that shipyard.


That's great, we need to fan out our sea-based BMD/ASAT network to intercept incoming Trident and to deal with sats.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Shotgunner51 said:


> That's great, we need to fan out our sea-based BMD/ASAT network to intercept incoming Trident and to deal with sats.



I am also hoping the second batch of the Type 055 could be increase its VLS from 112 to 128, and also upgrade its 135 mm deck gun to 155 mm.

Maybe the third batch of the Type 055 will be equipped with the railgun and laser.


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## Shotgunner51

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I am hoping the second batch of the Type 055 could be increase its VLS from 112 to 128, and also upgrade its 135 mm deck gun to 155 mm.


Sure bro the more the better! But our UVLS silos are 850x850 (max canister width) which is significantly larger than MK41 (even Mk57) so it's quite a different beast. Also our silo depth "strike" version is 9m, that allow our ships to deploy very large missiles, and capable of targeting long ranges as well as high altitudes (say exoatmospheric). From that perspective 64 front + 48 aft is already a formidable pack of firepower.

I guess hardware architecture of batch 1 is already well-balanced, even our adversary is ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1487251355773575175
But of course I'll love to see continuous improvements in batch 2, especially on software and electronics in order to bring 346B (maybe called 346C) to a new level. Unlike our adversary we don't operate something like SBX-1 (nor do we have Alaska), which in my opinion is a bit clumsy, slow in tactical maneuver and perhaps outdated in electronics (deployed in 2006), but still an excellent concept nonetheless. It'll be perfect if it's more compact (with modernized electronics) and integrated on a 30+ knots platform with self-sufficient powerplant for 24/7 operation, like 055.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Shotgunner51 said:


> Sure bro the more the better! But our UVLS silos are 850x850 (max canister width) which is significantly larger than MK41 (even Mk57) so it's quite a different beast. Also our silo depth "strike" version is 9m, that allow our ships to deploy very large missiles, and capable of targeting long ranges as well as high altitudes (say exoatmospheric). From that perspective 64 front + 48 aft is already a formidable pack of firepower.
> 
> I guess hardware architecture of batch 1 is already good, so good that even our adversary is ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1487251355773575175
> But of course I'll love to see continuous improvements in batch 2, especially on software and electronics in order to bring 346B (maybe called 346C) to a new level. Unlike our adversary we don't operate something like SBX-1 (nor do we have Alaska), which in my opinion is a bit clumsy, slow in tactical maneuver and perhaps outdated in electronics (deployed in 2006), but still a good concept nonetheless. It'll be perfect if it's more compact (with modernized electronics) and integrated on a 30+ knots platform with self-sufficient powerplant for 24/7 operation, like 055.
> 
> View attachment 812225



We need to always remain "料敌从宽", even though the US has become much weaker than before.

The complacency is always the biggest weakness for the US, and we won't repeat the same mistake.

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## S10

My hope for next major upgrades for 055:

- New dual band AESA (I want to see L + X band rather than S + C band currently)
- All electric propulsion
- Laser weapons
- Increase VLS to 128
- Chinese version of ESSM (Triple "5" - Mach 5, 50G, 50KM)
- Anti-ballistic missile capabilities
- Naval Z-20 helicopters
- Further optimized stealth shaping (main gun, sensor antennas etc)

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## Shotgunner51



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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494920388807393281

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## clibra

S10 said:


> My hope for next major upgrades for 055:
> 
> - New dual band AESA (I want to see L + X band rather than S + C band currently)
> - All electric propulsion
> - Laser weapons
> - Increase VLS to 128
> - Chinese version of ESSM (Triple "5" - Mach 5, 50G, 50KM)
> - Anti-ballistic missile capabilities
> - Naval Z-20 helicopters
> - Further optimized stealth shaping (main gun, sensor antennas etc)



If ESSM size SAM were developed, it's must be 4-in-1 cell, the total missile amount can increase significantly, so no need to increase VLS to 128.

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## Shotgunner51

Image credit @捣蛋就捣蛋

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## S10

clibra said:


> If ESSM size SAM were developed, it's must be 4-in-1 cell, the total missile amount can increase significantly, so no need to increase VLS to 128.


More cells to carry land attack cruise missiles.

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## johncliu88

Can someone confirm that 106 is named of city Yan'an?


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## Shotgunner51

johncliu88 said:


> Can someone confirm that 106 is named of city Yan'an?

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## johncliu88

Shotgunner51 said:


> View attachment 821727


Great and thanks for the confirmation, and nice picture.


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## Shotgunner51

Pennant number not painted yet, likely produced by Dalian Shipyard, could be #107 or #108.





 Credit @鹰眼军视

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## FuturePAF

The YouTube channel “Sub Brief” has a video on the Type 055, in which he claims the ship is so large because it is an inefficient design, radar technology draws too much electricity and therefore needs to be larger then it could be. If his assertion is correct, as China improves AESA technology, the ship will probably remain the same size but will have a more powerful radar and have more spare space for more VLS.


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## sheik

FuturePAF said:


> The YouTube channel “Sub Brief” has a video on the Type 055, in which he claims the ship is so large because it is an inefficient design, radar technology draws too much electricity and therefore needs to be larger then it could be. If his assertion is correct, as China improves AESA technology, the ship will probably remain the same size but will have a more powerful radar and have more spare space for more VLS.



No. The ship is as large because it uses 4 QC280 gas turbines and they are powerful enough.

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## FuturePAF

sheik said:


> No. The ship is as large because it uses 4 QC280 gas turbines and they are powerful enough.


The question is why does the ship need 4 large gas turbines; it had 112 VLS tubes, when the Arleigh Burke Flight III carries the same number of VLS tubes at nearly half the tonnage. The Youtuber “SubBrief” says he is told the Type 055’s Radar is a kin to the first generation SPY-1 radar, while the newer Arleigh Burke’s have the SPY-1D and the future radar for the US navy is almost ready; the SPY-6 radar.

This is probably why China classifies the Type 055 As a destroyer and not a cruiser. This is probably also why China classifies the Type 052DL as a heavy Frigate akin to the future US constellation class (Italian FREMM design)

Having said all that, China is advancing rather quickly, so if they make significant progress in radar technology and reach parity with the US in this regard, it’s not inconceivable that they could replace the radar to match the SPY-6 in the next refit in 10-15 years. In the meantime, China will have the ships in place, and the crews trained; an incremental approach to reaching ship numbers while using a stop-gap radar solution while technology matures.


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## Shotgunner51

FuturePAF said:


> The Youtuber “SubBrief” says he is told


Told by whom?


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## FuturePAF

Shotgunner51 said:


> Told by whom?


That’s what he says in his video and he a retired member of the USN.


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## Shotgunner51

FuturePAF said:


> That’s what he says in his video and he a retired member of the USN.


From all the non-sense, wishful thinking or even childish comments I guess he was told by his inner voice.

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## FuturePAF

Shotgunner51 said:


> From all the non-sense, wishful thinking or even childish comments I guess he was told by his inner voice.


It probably is just speculation on old assumptions. China already makes GaN based AESA radars, it would be logical that the best ships in the PLAN would have the most cutting edge AESA technology China can field.

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## casual

FuturePAF said:


> The question is why does the ship need 4 large gas turbines; it had 112 VLS tubes, when the Arleigh Burke Flight III carries the same number of VLS tubes at nearly half the tonnage. The Youtuber “SubBrief” says he is told the Type 055’s Radar is a kin to the first generation SPY-1 radar, while the newer Arleigh Burke’s have the SPY-1D and the future radar for the US navy is almost ready; the SPY-6 radar.
> 
> This is probably why China classifies the Type 055 As a destroyer and not a cruiser. This is probably also why China classifies the Type 052DL as a heavy Frigate akin to the future US constellation class (Italian FREMM design)
> 
> Having said all that, China is advancing rather quickly, so if they make significant progress in radar technology and reach parity with the US in this regard, it’s not inconceivable that they could replace the radar to match the SPY-6 in the next refit in 10-15 years. In the meantime, China will have the ships in place, and the crews trained; an incremental approach to reaching ship numbers while using a stop-gap radar solution while technology matures.


Don't compare Chinese VLS to American VLS. Chinese VLS is larger and deeper.

Each Chinese VLS tube is almost twice as large as American VLS tube. 6.5m^3 vs 3.5m^3

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## GiantPanda

casual said:


> Don't compare Chinese VLS to American VLS. Chinese VLS is larger and deeper.



MUCH larger. The average cell in the Chinese UVLS is about 300% larger in volume.

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## FuturePAF

casual said:


> Don't compare Chinese VLS to American VLS. Chinese VLS is larger and deeper.


Good point. It will become evident when the PLAN starts quad packing these cells and the China starts putting Hypersonic cruise missiles into the cells. The youtuber did say the USN does think of the Type 055 as primarily a surface warfare ship rather then an ASW or an AAW ship. He called the Type 055 most similar to the Arsenal ship the USN once planned.


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## KampfAlwin

FuturePAF said:


> The YouTube channel “Sub Brief” has a video on the Type 055, in which he claims the ship is so large because it is an inefficient design, radar technology draws too much electricity and therefore needs to be larger then it could be. If his assertion is correct, as China improves AESA technology, the ship will probably remain the same size but will have a more powerful radar and have more spare space for more VLS.


Don't trust the video. Dude claimed the ship is technologically a 1970s ship with no AESA radars. He even called any claim of AESA 'Chinese propaganda' and asserted that the Type 1130 CIWS on the ship is a Russian design when it is really far, far from it lmao.

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## FuturePAF

KampfAlwin said:


> Don't trust the video. Dude claimed the ship is technologically a 1970s ship with no AESA radars. He even called any claim of AESA 'Chinese propaganda' and asserted that the Type 1130 CIWS on the ship is a Russian design when it is really far, far from it lmao.


Yeah the part where he talked about the CIWS sounded so off. He never mentioned the Dutch goalkeeper, which is the closest equivalent to the Chinese Type 730 and 1130.

Some of his knowledge is probably from some limited and dated sources, but not everything he says sounds off, as far as I understand naval technology, which is why I find his channel interesting to watch.


----------



## KampfAlwin

FuturePAF said:


> Yeah the part where he talked about the CIWS sounded so off. He never mentioned the Dutch goalkeeper, which is the closest equivalent to the Chinese Type 730 and 1130.
> 
> Some of his knowledge is probably from some limited and dated sources, but not everything he says sounds off, as far as I understand naval technology, which is why I find his channel interesting to watch.


So what points about the 055 from this 'analyst' do you agree with?

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## FuturePAF

KampfAlwin said:


> So what points about the 055 from this 'analyst' do you agree with?


His assertion that the Type 055 Is an Arsenal Ship. It will have more of a focus on surface warfare (as a percentage of its loadout) then AAW and ASW then the Arleigh Burkes.

In a US Naval war college document (China Maritime Report No. 5: China's Dreadnought? The PLA Navy's Type 055 Cruiser and Its Implications for the Future Maritime Security Environment), there is a belief the Type 055 may carry ASBM to take on enemy CBG further out, to protect the Chinese CBG or SAG the Type 055 is a part of.


----------



## sheik

FuturePAF said:


> The question is why does the ship need 4 large gas turbines; it had 112 VLS tubes, when the Arleigh Burke Flight III carries the same number of VLS tubes at nearly half the tonnage. The Youtuber “SubBrief” says he is told the Type 055’s Radar is a kin to the first generation SPY-1 radar, while the newer Arleigh Burke’s have the SPY-1D and the future radar for the US navy is almost ready; the SPY-6 radar.
> 
> This is probably why China classifies the Type 055 As a destroyer and not a cruiser. This is probably also why China classifies the Type 052DL as a heavy Frigate akin to the future US constellation class (Italian FREMM design)
> 
> Having said all that, China is advancing rather quickly, so if they make significant progress in radar technology and reach parity with the US in this regard, it’s not inconceivable that they could replace the radar to match the SPY-6 in the next refit in 10-15 years. In the meantime, China will have the ships in place, and the crews trained; an incremental approach to reaching ship numbers while using a stop-gap radar solution while technology matures.



The PLA Navy already had 7000-ton Type 052D with 2 QC280's. That class was limited by the two QC280's and could not go larger for major upgrade. And 7000 ton were not enough to accommodate more weapons and electronic systems. So apparently the PLA Navy needed a larger platform. But what could they get with limited choices on the gas turbine engines? China's industry could not provide a big variety of engines appropriate for the new ship. And IEP was far from mature so not an option at all. Then what could they do? They could only put 4 QC280's together for the new ship. Due to the sufficient power, the ship could be large enough to be the next generation of Naval platform and would have enough room for future upgrades. That means you will see 055A, 055B, 055C for sure in the coming years and they will be the backbone of the PLA Navy for decades.

The reason PLA calls it destroyer not cruiser simply because Chinese are always low profile and modest, especially when they tried not to be locked by the US as the major opponent too early. There were many other examples. When the state owned TV channel reported the news of CV-17 Shandong they only said the tonnage was 50K class. Well, they did not want to use the full displacement number, and 59K can be the class of 50K. They just tried to minimize the numbers to avoid being seen as a threat to some other countries.

As to the sensors and sub systems on Type 055, I am sure PLA put on it the best ones that the domestic manufacturers could offer at that time, including the dual band radar system (Type 346B radar for S-band, which was not only bigger in size, but also more advanced that the one on Type 052D). Even the main gun was much more powerful than the one on Type 052D which was not a full version due to the weight limit for the smaller platform.

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## lcloo

In a neighbour forum on Chinese military, this Sub Brief youtuber got tons and tons of negative comments for his lack of knowledge on type 055 and his authoritarian act of deleting and banning people who questioned validity of his video.

One of many comments posted in the neighbourhood.

_5unrise wrote:-
I provided a fairly detailed response to him in the comments section, until he deleted it.

This is a summary of what I said:

1. The Type 346B Dragon Eye is not remotely comparable to the AN/SPY-1. One is a third generation Chinese AESA, while the other is a PESA. The resolution and detection range are an order of magnitude different because of how the array functions.

2. The Type 1130 CIWS is evolved from the domestic Type 730, and is not a copy of a Russian system and bears no resemblence to the Kashtan (a gun-and-missile system).

3. Chinese state media indicated that the Type 055 destroyer will be an area air defence command and control warship, rather than having anti-ship as its primary mission, as Sub Brief claimed.

4. The Type 055 is not remotely comparable to the Ticonderoga in terms of capabilities - the latter is a 1980s design with much less advanced radars and electronic warfare suite.

I posted these under the user name Eurasia Naval Insight. He reacted by banning me from his channel and deleting my comment.

He is insinuating that any criticism of the lack of research, or just plainly wrong information, evident in his video is just Chinese state propaganda. We are not real free agents who simply disagree with his video, but basically paid propagandists."_

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## FuturePAF

lcloo said:


> In a neighbour forum on Chinese military, this Sub Brief youtuber got tons and tons of negative comments for his lack of knowledge on type 055 and his authoritarian act of deleting and banning people who questioned validity of his video.
> 
> One of many comments posted in the neighbourhood.
> 
> _5unrise wrote:-
> I provided a fairly detailed response to him in the comments section, until he deleted it.
> 
> This is a summary of what I said:
> 
> 1. The Type 346B Dragon Eye is not remotely comparable to the AN/SPY-1. One is a third generation Chinese AESA, while the other is a PESA. The resolution and detection range are an order of magnitude different because of how the array functions.
> 
> 2. The Type 1130 CIWS is evolved from the domestic Type 730, and is not a copy of a Russian system and bears no resemblence to the Kashtan (a gun-and-missile system).
> 
> 3. Chinese state media indicated that the Type 055 destroyer will be an area air defence command and control warship, rather than having anti-ship as its primary mission, as Sub Brief claimed.
> 
> 4. The Type 055 is not remotely comparable to the Ticonderoga in terms of capabilities - the latter is a 1980s design with much less advanced radars and electronic warfare suite.
> 
> I posted these under the user name Eurasia Naval Insight. He reacted by banning me from his channel and deleting my comment.
> 
> He is insinuating that any criticism of the lack of research, or just plainly wrong information, evident in his video is just Chinese state propaganda. We are not real free agents who simply disagree with his video, but basically paid propagandists."_


I’ve watched Eurasia Naval insight’s videos. They are really good. He (or She) did a good review of the Type 055 about 10 days ago.

Sub Brief’s assertion that Anti-shipping will be the primary mission probably comes from what is probably an official USN belief that the Type 055 will be used to take on USN carrier battle groups like the Soviet missile cruisers of the 80s.


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## Polestar 2

KampfAlwin said:


> Don't trust the video. Dude claimed the ship is technologically a 1970s ship with no AESA radars. He even called any claim of AESA 'Chinese propaganda' and asserted that the Type 1130 CIWS on the ship is a Russian design when it is really far, far from it lmao.


Exactly, most of those so called professional analyst about Chinese weapon analysis are nothing but a bunch of racist unprofessional propaganda video which write all kind of rubbish just to misled viewers. There are simply too many junk video on youtube.



FuturePAF said:


> I’ve watched Eurasia Naval insight’s videos. They are really good. He (or She) did a good review of the Type 055 about 10 days ago.
> 
> Sub Brief’s assertion that Anti-shipping will be the primary mission probably comes from what is probably an official USN belief that the Type 055 will be used to take on USN carrier battle groups like the Soviet missile cruisers of the 80s.


There is no doubt the so called video you recommend for 055 are nothing but a joke! Worthless piece of analysis which just to suit racist and white supremacy who believe only whiteman can produced top class weapon. His delete of a professional comment more or less convicted my correct view on him. If you want to go ahead and stick with him. I will not stop you.

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## FuturePAF

Polestar 2 said:


> Exactly, most of those so called professional analyst about Chinese weapon analysis are nothing but a bunch of racist unprofessional propaganda video which write all kind of rubbish just to misled viewers. There are simply too many junk video on youtube.
> 
> 
> There is no doubt the so called video you recommend for 055 are nothing but a joke! Worthless piece of analysis which just to suit racist and white supremacy who believe only whiteman can produced top class weapon. His delete of a professional comment more or less convicted my correct view on him. If you want to go ahead and stick with him. I will not stop you.


Like I said in an early post, I also watch Eurasia Naval Insight’s videos, I’ve been subscribed to that channel for a while. HI Sutton is another commentator I follow; a more professional source.

What you get from watching Sub Brief’s videos is seeing what a veteran of the USN and most western observers see. You get an understanding of that perspective. To call him racist is too far, but technological nationalist is a more fair assessment (similar to how the British hype their Type 45 Destroyer). And if the USN underestimates the PLAN, its to its own detriment as well as playing into the PLAN’s strategy of keeping a low profile for as long as possible as @sheik pointed out in an earlier post.

But you also have to see if the western commentators point out areas China *may* still lags behind, as you may not get that from any other source, such as the ABM capabilities allegedly the Type 055 does not possess and the ability for the radar to operate at full power for extended periods of time. If these claims are false, in due time it will be known. And even if the claims are true, China is catching up fast and will soon meet these limitations if they exist, just like in the development of the WS-15 engine.

But as they say on Twitter; Retweet does not mean endorsement. But I will say I was mistaken for accepting on face value his VLS count (disregarding volume) and the story on the lagging radar capabilities. I will admit I did forgot about the VLS volume difference and how much China has advanced in radar technology in such a short time (which comes from limited and perhaps outdated OSINT data). At this point no one really knows the full capabilities and all the *limitations* of both countries as they are the two leading defense equipment producers, and can no longer discount one will not be able to surpass the other with their next piece of equipment, as they are Full Spectrum Peer Competitors.


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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/yw/2022-04/07/content_10146283.htm

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## Wergeland

What is Chinese DDG like Type 052 and type 055, were armed with hypersonic misslies like Df-17 and DD-100?
If possible, it would effectively make any enemy boat a target thousands of kilometers from chinese coast. 

In theory these destroyers armed with hypersonic missiles could go on patrol anywhere in international water.
Potentially act as deterrence against hostile force, in the same way as CBG's.


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## NW-Blue

Wergeland said:


> What is Chinese DDG like Type 052 and type 055, were armed with hypersonic misslies like Df-17 and DD-100?
> If possible, it would effectively make any enemy boat a target thousands of kilometers from chinese coast.
> 
> In theory these destroyers armed with hypersonic missiles could go on patrol anywhere in international water.
> Potentially act as deterrence against hostile force, in the same way as CBG's.



None of these ships are armed with those missiles you mentioned. DF-100 is land based and truck mounted, so is DF-17. DF-17 is definitely too big to be launched from ships. DF-100 maybe able to fit on 055 but I doubt it, but definitely not 052D, as its VL tubes are too small for that. 

052 is mainly for fleet air defense and ASW duties, and 055 have more surface-to-surface capabilities. It does have its own land-attack missiles, and most likely will be able to launch land attack cruise missiles in the future, whether there will be any hypersonic versions developed for that, it will be interesting to see in the years to come...


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## Wergeland

NW-Blue said:


> None of these ships are armed with those missiles you mentioned. DF-100 is land based and truck mounted, so is DF-17. DF-17 is definitely too big to be launched from ships. DF-100 maybe able to fit on 055 but I doubt it, but definitely not 052D, as its VL tubes are too small for that.
> 
> 052 is mainly for fleet air defense and ASW duties, and 055 have more surface-to-surface capabilities. It does have its own land-attack missiles, and most likely will be able to launch land attack cruise missiles in the future, whether there will be any hypersonic versions developed for that, it will be interesting to see in the years to come...



I thought 052 and 055 VLS cells are same dimensions. That they are universal. 

Long range hypersonic missiles, launched from destroyers, is definately something i can see China working on. Especially the anti-ship versions. It makes sense A2AD wise.

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## IblinI

Wergeland said:


> I thought 052 and 055 VLS cells are same dimensions. That they are universal.
> 
> Long range hypersonic missiles, launched from destroyers, is definately something i can see China working on. Especially the anti-ship versions. It makes sense A2AD wise.


They are working on Air, ship, sub, land launched hypersonic ballistic and cruise missiles。


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## Shotgunner51

HQ-9B cold launched from 055

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## Shotgunner51

Wergeland said:


> I thought 052 and 055 VLS cells are same dimensions. That they are universal.
> 
> Long range hypersonic missiles, launched from destroyers, is definately something i can see China working on. Especially the anti-ship versions. It makes sense A2AD wise.


Yes, 052D and 055 both uses UVLS Ø850mm. That's huge compared with other VLS in the world, good for housing very large missiles or multi-pack cannister. UVLS silos have 3 difference depths: 3m "defence" version shallow but good for multi-pack, 7m "tactical" and 9m "strike".






While 052D is a standard theater AD destroyer, 055 with powerful 346B battle system is dedicated for mid-course BMD & ASAT, and likely to have more 9m "strike" silos for rockets with extra booster/stage.

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## CSAW

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517078485650612224

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## LKJ86

Via 兵器知识

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## LKJ86

Via @中国军号 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86




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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## FuturePAF

Shotgunner51 said:


> Yes, 052D and 055 both uses UVLS Ø850mm. That's huge compared with other VLS in the world, good for housing very large missiles or multi-pack cannister. UVLS silos have 3 difference depths: 3m "defence" version shallow but good for multi-pack, 7m "tactical" and 9m "strike".
> 
> View attachment 832945
> 
> 
> While 052D is a standard theater AD destroyer, 055 with powerful 346B battle system is dedicated for mid-course BMD & ASAT, and likely to have more 9m "strike" silos for rockets with extra booster/stage.


Do you think the Type 055B will have more VLS cells? More than the current 112 VLS cells?

Possibly increasing to 72 cells forward and 72 cells aft (totaling 144 VLS cells, surpassing the Korean Sejong the Great Class Destroyers in VLS count) to account for carrying these new ASBM missiles, ASCM, Torpedo Missiles, Land Attack cruise missiles, quad pack medium range missiles while retaining independent ability to carry enough long range 460 km range active guided air defense missiles under development (as well as a dedicated ASAT missile) and the current HQ-9B (250 km) missiles in use? A larger ship may also be needed if the Type 1130 are to be moved amidships to make room for a dedicated laser system forward and aft where the current Type 1130 and FL-3000N are placed respectively. Making the need for more VLS even more necessary as the missile count will go down with the removal of the FL-3000N



Even if the cells are larger, the number of long range missiles will be limited if a lot of the cells are taken up by strike missiles. Or does the PLAN always plan to operate the Type 055 with a Type 052D?


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## vi-va

FuturePAF said:


> Do you think the Type 055B will have more VLS cells? More than the current 112 VLS cells?
> 
> Possibly increasing to 72 cells forward and 72 cells aft (totaling 144 VLS cells, surpassing the Korean Sejong the Great Class Destroyers in VLS count) to account for carrying these new ASBM missiles, ASCM, Torpedo Missiles, Land Attack cruise missiles, quad pack medium range missiles while retaining independent ability to carry enough long range 460 km range active guided air defense missiles under development (as well as a dedicated ASAT missile) and the current HQ-9B (250 km) missiles in use? A larger ship may also be needed if the Type 1130 are to be moved amidships to make room for a dedicated laser system forward and aft where the current Type 1130 and FL-3000N are placed respectively. Making the need for more VLS even more necessary as the missile count will go down with the removal of the FL-3000N
> 
> 
> 
> Even if the cells are larger, the number of long range missiles will be limited if a lot of the cells are taken up by strike missiles. Or does the PLAN always plan to operate the Type 055 with a Type 052D?


005B will be all-electric destroyer, no more ship spindle needed. It will create more room for weapons, or something else, everything is possible.

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## TOTUU



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## FuturePAF

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523508388306378754
Stealthy ASW helicopters, Railguns, HGV AShBM... one hell of a capable ship the next version is shaping up to be, but how many will be build?

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## S10

FuturePAF said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523508388306378754
> Stealthy ASW helicopters, Railguns, HGV AShBM... one hell of a capable ship the next version is shaping up to be, but how many will be build?



Why would China rip off the failed Zumwalt class? China has its own design.

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## johncliu88

S10 said:


> Why would China rip off the failed Zumwalt class? China has its own design.


I will fully agree with you. China doesn't need this kind of abandon design. The 055 design has been a great success and even been adopted by US, which showed the next concept design is clearly in heavy bias of 055.

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## FuturePAF

S10 said:


> Why would China rip off the failed Zumwalt class? China has its own design.


I don’t know why did would do it, but they seem to be experimenting with the hull design. Let’s wait and see.









China's New Naval Mystery: Mini Zumwalt Stealth Vessel - Naval News


What appears at first sight to be a U.S. Navy Zumwalt Class destroyer, is actually something quite different. A new and mysterious boat has been observed in China.




www.navalnews.com


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## lcloo

FuturePAF said:


> I don’t know why did would do it, but they seem to be experimenting with the hull design. Let’s wait and see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's New Naval Mystery: Mini Zumwalt Stealth Vessel - Naval News
> 
> 
> What appears at first sight to be a U.S. Navy Zumwalt Class destroyer, is actually something quite different. A new and mysterious boat has been observed in China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.navalnews.com


It is more like China is building stealth ships similar to Zumwalt to test its radar returns and to test its perfomance to find out the pro and con of this hull design.

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## FuturePAF

lcloo said:


> It is more like China is building stealth ships similar to Zumwalt to test its radar returns and to test its perfomance to find out the pro and con of this hull design.


Perhaps, although they could have build smaller scale models but you maybe right. We won’t know till we see something far along to be definite one way or the other. OSINT in the early stages of a project is hard when it comes to the PLA/PLAN


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## Abid123

Is Type 055 destroyer or a cruiser?


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## Wergeland

TOTUU said:


> View attachment 842794



Sexay

Quite possibly the most esthetically pleasing boat ever put into naval service.

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## S10

Abid123 said:


> Is Type 055 destroyer or a cruiser?



Destroyer that's larger and more heavily armed than American cruisers

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## LKJ86

FuturePAF said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523508388306378754
> Stealthy ASW helicopters, Railguns, HGV AShBM... one hell of a capable ship the next version is shaping up to be, but how many will be build?


Why would you take that unofficial CG so seriously?

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## FuturePAF

LKJ86 said:


> Why would you take that unofficial CG so seriously?


It’s not the first rumor that hinted at a Zumwalt style hull design being considered for an evolution of the Type 55 design, and this piece of art showed all aspects of the new design so I decided to share it.


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## Wergeland

FuturePAF said:


> It’s not the first rumor that hinted at a Zumwalt style hull design being considered for an evolution of the Type 55 design, and this piece of art showed all aspects of the new design so I decided to share it.



I thought PLAN deliberately steered away from the tumblehome design.


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## FuturePAF

Wergeland said:


> I thought PLAN deliberately steered away from the tumblehome design.


Perhaps they may adopt it for a different class of ship or very well may adopt it for a large surface vessel. We don’t know at this point. But they are studying the design, so we shouldn’t be surprised if a PLAN platform within a tumbledown design emerges in the coming years.


----------



## Super Falcon

China testing new 29 barrel CIWS to integrate on future type 55 DDG destroyer protection

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## johncliu88

Super Falcon said:


> China testing new 29 barrel CIWS to integrate on future type 55 DDG destroyer protection


29? Oh man, how many rounds will it blast in 1 minute then? I think it will be a lot cheaper to equip with the laser pod instead of gun shells.


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## Super Falcon

johncliu88 said:


> 29? Oh man, how many rounds will it blast in 1 minute then? I think it will be a lot cheaper to equip with the laser pod instead of gun shells.


Yes but china will use both I think


----------



## Deino

DF41 said:


> China got both of that.
> 
> Probably more but China like to keep surprises.
> 
> The whole world and all the China watchers were stunned when China chose to reveal new toys in 2019
> Those will keep those wanting to turn pushing China to shoving of China wish that they drink coffee and smell roses instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 845048
> 
> 
> View attachment 845049
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳 **WANG SUI WANG WANG SUI 萬歲 萬 萬歲** 🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳



And what has this provocative post to do with the topic, namely the Type 055 DDG!??? Please stop this!

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## lcloo

johncliu88 said:


> 29? Oh man, how many rounds will it blast in 1 minute then? I think it will be a lot cheaper to equip with the laser pod instead of gun shells.


It is not about the cost of the 30mm rounds, think of the costs of the damage to the ship if a missile struck, especially the ship concerned is a type 055.

Laser would be nice compliment to the 20 barrel 30mm CIWS though. They do not have to exclude each other.

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## LKJ86

Via @北海舰队 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.mod.gov.cn/power/2022-07/07/content_4914964.htm

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/bz/2022-08/15/content_10178219.htm

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## johncliu88

Expecting the 2nd batch builds will bring us more surprise. Great ship!


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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/tp/2022-08/16/content_10178572.htm

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @听雨轩bg from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @馆长哈哈哈哈哈 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @人民海军 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2022-09/03/content_10182569.htm

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @飞扬军事铁背心 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @现代舰船官方微博 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/yw/2022-09/13/content_10184323.htm

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/yw/2022-09/22/content_10186416.htm

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## MH.Yang

Recently, some news of 055A came out of China.
055A have install the new Class F 50MW heavy gas turbine. Configure KEI. One missile silo can carry four missiles. Configure DF17(ABSM)&YJ21&HQ19, and a new short-range air defense missile (the maximum range is 50km, the maximum overload is 50G, and the maximum speed is Mach 5).

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## leviathan

MH.Yang said:


> Recently, some news of 055A came out of China.
> 055A have install the new Class F 50MW heavy gas turbine. Configure KEI. One missile silo can carry four missiles. Configure DF17(ABSM)&YJ21&HQ19, and a new short-range air defense missile (the maximum range is 50km, the maximum overload is 50G, and the maximum speed is Mach 5).


so 055A will have two 50MW turnbine then? Change the top structure? I dont think so...


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## MH.Yang

leviathan said:


> so 055A will have two 50MW turnbine then? Change the top structure? I dont think so...








China's First F-Class 50 MW Heavy-Duty Gas Turbine Operates at Full Capacity - World-Energy


Dongfang electric self-developed domestic first class F 50 mw heavy duty gas turbine at capacity, various indicators of normal operation, expert witness.



www.world-energy.org

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## LKJ86



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## leviathan

MH.Yang said:


> China's First F-Class 50 MW Heavy-Duty Gas Turbine Operates at Full Capacity - World-Energy
> 
> 
> Dongfang electric self-developed domestic first class F 50 mw heavy duty gas turbine at capacity, various indicators of normal operation, expert witness.
> 
> 
> 
> www.world-energy.org


That's for a land power generation. 50M as prototype and will scale for 100M, 200M 300M. A totally different layout from ship use one. Otherwise German and Japan will have their own gas turban engine for their ship instead of using US lm2500 since they are leading in this type of heavy duty gas turban engine.

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## LKJ86

Via 子游

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via 子游

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via 新华社

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## Trevor Xue

the 2nd batch (4 ships) of 055 is under construction;


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