# Vietnam War



## NeutralCitizen

Origins 


Since the 1880s, Indochina was a French colony. In World War II, French Indochina, with Vietnam, was occupied by Japan. With the capitulation of the Japanese in August 1945, the "League for the Independence of Vietnam" or "Vietminh", led by the revolutionary leader Ho Chi Minh, was determined to put an end to nearly a decade with colonial rule. With the Japanese surrender, Vietminh guerrillas occupied the capital, Hanoi, and forced the Emperor, Bao Dai, to resign. Following the resignation, the Vietminh declared Vietnam independent. The Democratic Republic of Vietnam, or North Vietnam, was created with its new president, Ho Chi Minh. France officially recognised the new state, but the unsuccessful attempt to reach political and economic agreements led to armed conflict in late 1946.

The former Emperor, Bao Dai, rose on 1 July 1949 as the new leader of the Republic of Vietnam, or South Vietnam. Having both the French and the American support, he established a new capital, Saigon. The President of the United States, Harry S. Truman, officially recognised the new government. In order to assist it, President Truman ordered the establishment of a military advisory group. Its task was to train South Vietnamese soldiers in the use of U.S. weapons.

In the spring of 1954 the Vietminh attacked the French fortress of Dien Bien Phu, in northern Vietnam. On 8 May 1954, France surrendered Indochina. On the same day, delegates from both North and South Vietnam met with delegates from France, Great Britain, the USSR, the United States, China, Laos and Cambodia in Geneva, Switzerland. The meeting concerned the future of Indo-china. France and North Vietnam agreed on a cease-fire on certain terms. Vietnam was temporarily divided in to two parts along the 17th parallel. The communists was given control of North Vietnam, placing South Vietnam under a western rule, with the Dai government in charge. The Geneva-agreement proclaimed that there was to be held an election on reunification of the country in 1956.

Although the United States disagreed with the Geneva-agreement, President Eisenhower stated that they would not do anything to undermine it. When the French withdrew from Vietnam, the United States immediately offered military assistance to South Vietnam. Military observers claimed the United States engaged in undercover operations against the North Vietnamese government in Hanoi. This was strongly denied by the Eisenhower Administration which proclaimed that these were rumours set out by the communists. On 24 October 1954, President Eisenhower, with support from the U.S. Congress, offered economic aid to South Vietnam.
In October 1955, President Bao Dai of South Vietnam, was dismissed from office and South Vietnam was made a republic, with Ngo Dinh Diem as the new President. This, however, did not interfere with the U.S. support to the country. Diem's first act as president was to refuse a reunification election. The Diem government claimed the people of North Vietnam would not be free to express their own will.

President Diem turned out to be a catastrophe for the United States. He favoured the Catholic minority, the upper class, suppressing the lower and middle class. He also halted the economic reform which was of most importance for the country's development. He put all effort into the fight against the communists.

The North Vietnamese government in Hanoi, however, was determined to reunify the nation, making Hanoi the centre of the reunified country. The cease-fire which both parts had agreed on in 1954, began to shiver. By January 1957, several violations of the Geneva-agreement were reported by the International Control Commission, which had been set up in 1954. A group of communist sympathisers, the Vietcong, who had gone north after the partition, returned back south throughout 1957. They began launching attacks on U.S. military installations and in 1959 they implemented guerrilla attacks on the Diem government.

In 1960, North Vietnam was determined to liberate South Vietnam from the United States and Western influence. This gave clear indication of the government in Hanoi being involved in Vietcong actions. On 10 November the suspicions were confirmed. Regular North Vietnamese troops were taking direct part in Vietcong's attacks in South Vietnam. This was refused by the leaders of the Vietcong, and to show they were an independent movement, they established their own political arm, the National Liberation Front (NLF).

During 1960, the attacks on the U.S. military installations and the Diem government, were intensified. On these actions the United States restated their support to the Saigon government

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen




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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen




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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen




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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## Chogy

Good pictures.... shows the brutality and anguish of this terrible war.

I remember as a kid hearing about Vietnam on the news, but I was too young to really understand. 

One thing I find interesting are all the "custom touches" the soldiers and airmen put on their uniforms. Stickers, emblems, toys, slogans. Such things would never be tolerated today, and you don't see similar in modern soldier pictures. It's easy to say "unprofessional", but these were mostly draftees with no real desire to fight in SEA. The majority went anyhow and did their job.

The tunnel rat - toughest job I've ever heard of. Crawl into a VC tunnel armed with a handgun and a flashlight.








Say what you will, these guys had titanium gonads.

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## Chogy

I think the videos showing the street fighting was the battle for Hue.


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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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Left to Right - John Cantwell, Ronald Laramy, Michael Birch, Bruce Piggot. A freelancer who was with them said they had all been killed in Saigon's Chinese quarter on May 5, 1968--ambushed by a Viet Cong squad. But were they all dead? John Cantwell had replaced me in Time's Saigon bureau and was a close friend of Wallace Terry. We set out to find them.

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen




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## NeutralCitizen




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## NeutralCitizen




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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen




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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen




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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen

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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen

OPERATION ROLLING THUNDER,1965-68 

Rolling Thunder was the name given to the American bombing operation against North Vietnam, which lasted from March 2 1965, until November 1 1968. It was intended to put psychological and material pressure on the North Vietnamese communist regime and persuade its leaders to come to the negotiating table. The campaign - including carpet bombing by huge B-52s, above - escalated over the three years as the U.S. became increasingly frustrated with its failure either to subdue North Vietnamese forces or demoralise the population. North Vietnam acquired surface-to-air missiles and anti-aircraft artillery, and had about 100 Soviet-built MiG fighters. The Americans lost 922 aircraft during a campaign in which 864,000 tons of bombs dropped on North Vietnam - more than during the whole of the Pacific War. The combination of poor weather, North Vietnamese adaptability in the face of attack and uncertainty over the pattern of targeting demonstrated the difficulty of asymmetric warfare for technically sophisticated states.
Rolling Thunder was the name given to the American bombing operation against North Vietnam, which lasted from March 2 1965, until November 1 1968

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## NeutralCitizen



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## NeutralCitizen



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## Desert Fox

American government spreading peace and democracy to the oppressed people of Vietnam:








*My Lai Massacre*






"The My Lai Massacre (Vietnamese: th&#7843;m sát M&#7929; Lai [t&#688;&#592;&#771;&#720;m &#642;&#592;&#780;&#720;t m&#464;&#704; l&#592;&#720;j], [m&#464;&#704;l&#592;&#720;j] ( listen); English pronunciation: /&#716;mi&#720;&#712;la&#618;/, also /&#716;mi&#720;&#712;le&#618;, &#716;ma&#618;&#712;la&#618;/)[1] *was the Vietnam War mass murder of between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, by United States Army soldiers of "Charlie" Company of 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade of the Americal Division. Most of the victims were women, children (including babies), and elderly people. Many were raped, beaten, and tortured, and some of the bodies were later found to be mutilated.*[2] While 26 US soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at M&#7929; Lai, only Second Lieutenant William Calley, a platoon leader in Charlie Company, was convicted. Found guilty of killing 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence, but only served three and a half years under house arrest."
My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## NeutralCitizen

It was reported 1-3 Million Viet Cong were killed while the USA suffered 58,300 causalities. man after watching Rolling Thunder Video, Viet Cong did not give in even after getting hit by more bombs then in WW2.


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## below_freezing

You should not post too many pictures of the US soldiers, and instead focus on the dead Vietnamese civilians.

In a WW2 thread, it is courtesy to not post too many pictures of the Nazi Germany Wehrmacht and the SS, so why would you also glorify the forces of a genocidal empire?

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## NeutralCitizen

below_freezing said:


> You should not post too many pictures of the US soldiers, and instead focus on the dead Vietnamese civilians.
> 
> In a WW2 thread, it is courtesy to not post too many pictures of the Nazi Germany Wehrmacht and the SS, so why would you also glorify the forces of a genocidal empire?



I will however I want post Vietcong pictures, did you know USA dropped more bombs on Vietnam then in ww2 ? and USA killed over 1-3 million vietcong. I will also post Vietnamese civilians.

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## NeutralCitizen

US lost up to 58,300 Troops however killed 1-3 million Vietcong.


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## NeutralCitizen



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## Developereo

"I Ain't Got No Quarrel With The VietCong... No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger"  Muhammad Ali, 1966

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## NeutralCitizen

1-3 million Vietcong killed vs 58,300 americans killed.


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## SpiritHS

war is cruel. consequences of the war is long, millions people of Vietnamese offs to life. 
but for vietnamese, independence, freedom, target we are willing to trade. look as Chinese enters the pipe made &#8203;&#8203;of copper, general of france emerges from the the bunker, American helicopter swings in the panic to escape. you will understand that we will do all to the independence and freedom.


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## NeutralCitizen

SpiritHS said:


> war is cruel. consequences of the war is long, millions people of Vietnamese offs to life.
> but for vietnamese, independence, freedom, target we are willing to trade. look as Chinese enters the pipe made &#8203;&#8203;of copper, general of france emerges from the the bunker, American helicopter swings in the panic to escape. you will understand that we will do all to the independence and freedom.



Vietnam is coming back within USA influence.


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## NeutralCitizen

Anyone like to add feel free to.


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## Battle of Bach Dang River

NeutralCitizen said:


> US lost up to 58,300 Troops however killed 1-3 million Vietcong.



What do you want to emphasize?

We did not only fight against American Army,
Worse yet, it includes the war between Vietnamese in North Vietnam and South Vietnam.


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## Battle of Bach Dang River

NeutralCitizen said:


> Anyone like to add feel free to.



You posted very many photos. I have only a photo, enough to show the results of the war.

Anyhow, thanks for good historical photos.

Now, we has already forgiven American.


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## Tshering22

NeutralCitizen said:


> Vietnam is coming back within USA influence.



I doubt it is called influence, mate. Vietnam is not someone who takes submission easily. You of all people must know.


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## Tshering22

NeutralCitizen said:


> US lost up to 58,300 Troops however killed 1-3 million Vietcong.



What has happened in the past, cannot be changed. But you must know that you fought a Vietnam that was divided, weaker than ever and had different ideologies. They not only fought US but also thrashed China. For a country that is barely the size of a single US state, lacked technical prowess in 60s and 70s; it is a very big achievement. Akin to what the US would be in if it was facing 2 USSRs and a today's China simultaneously.

US suffered far more casualties than the official figure which is used as a cloak to cover the terrible episode. Independent analysts (even western non-Americans) estimate it at close to 80,000 plus. For a superpower, That is a big loss considering the technology gap Viet Cong (not even a nation but a guerilla warfare group) had.


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## NeutralCitizen

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> What do you want to emphasize?
> 
> We did not only fight against American Army,
> Worse yet, it includes the war between Vietnamese in North Vietnam and South Vietnam.



Untrue Vietcong did fight against the USA, our goals were to keep South Vietnam stable and uprunning.

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Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> You posted very many photos. I have only a photo, enough to show the results of the war.
> 
> Anyhow, thanks for good historical photos.
> 
> Now, we has already forgiven American.



Forgive Americans ? Vietnam War Changed USA like no war did.

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Tshering22 said:


> I doubt it is called influence, mate. Vietnam is not someone who takes submission easily. You of all people must know.



With China Growing, We will see that.


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## NeutralCitizen

Tshering22 said:


> What has happened in the past, cannot be changed. But you must know that you fought a Vietnam that was divided, weaker than ever and had different ideologies. They not only fought US but also thrashed China. For a country that is barely the size of a single US state, lacked technical prowess in 60s and 70s; it is a very big achievement. Akin to what the US would be in if it was facing 2 USSRs and a today's China simultaneously.
> 
> US suffered far more casualties than the official figure which is used as a cloak to cover the terrible episode. Independent analysts (even western non-Americans) estimate it at close to 80,000 plus. For a superpower, That is a big loss considering the technology gap Viet Cong (not even a nation but a guerilla warfare group) had.



North Vietnam was getting massive amounts of Aid from the USSR and China that exceeded that of what the USA gave to the afghans cut the Aid and the damage would have been much worse. we lost due to many reasons Viet Cong aimed to take over the South while we were there to keep the south stable, For example our politicians tied our soldiers hands to their backs and most of the soldiers were draftees that did not want to fight or motivated, not to mention the anti war movement. if we sent Ground troops to North Vietnam and our troops freely allowed then it would have been different. further more supplies and money to south vietnam was cut.

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Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> You posted very many photos. I have only a photo, enough to show the results of the war.
> 
> Anyhow, thanks for good historical photos.
> 
> Now, we has already forgiven American.



How long did it take to forgive us ? Vietnamese did not forgive china but thats a story for another time, maybe if more people were like Vietnamese.


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## Battle of Bach Dang River

NeutralCitizen said:


> North Vietnam was getting massive amounts of Aid from the USSR and China that exceeded that of what the USA gave to the afghans cut the Aid and the damage would have been much worse. we lost due to many reasons Viet Cong aimed to take over the South while we were there to keep the south stable, For example our politicians tied our soldiers hands to their backs and most of the soldiers were draftees that did not want to fight or motivated, not to mention the anti war movement. if we sent Ground troops to North Vietnam and our troops freely allowed then it would have been different. further more supplies and money to south vietnam was cut.




You're right partly, we couldn't win if the US Government were allowed using all their power to fight Vietnam.

We are also thank to the Soviet and China, who supported us so much in the war, although they also have their own purpose. 

Moreover, our strengths are the legitimacy.


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## Chogy

> We are also thank to the Soviet and China, who supported us so much in the war, although they also have their own purpose.



I'm sure you realize this, but USSR and China support wasn't because they loved the people of Vietnam. It was a political war of proxy. They appreciated the fact that Vietnamese were weakening the USA and doing all the hard work of the war.

ROE was a joke. Pilots could see SAM sites being built, but could not attack them in the construction phase, because "there might be Soviet advisers there on site." And they could see huge cargo ships streaming in to Hanoi and these likewise could not be touched.

Operation linebacker brought the North back to the peace talks with a truly brutal bombardment. Until Linebacker, the air war was a piecemeal, half-hearted effort.

In the end, the whole thing was badly bungled and a tragedy for all concerned. I am glad Vietnam and the USA are having closer trade relations and such. Recently, a U.S. warship visited Vietnam, and the warship's captain was a U.S. man of Vietnamese descent... his parents had come to the USA during the war.

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## NeutralCitizen

I want to keep this thread updated.


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## Chogy

When troops come home from Iraq and Afghanistan, a huge number of older men are always at the airport to greet them... veterans of Vietnam. They want to give them a "Welcome home" that they themselves did not get.


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## NiceGuy

Pham Xuân &#7848;n , one of greatest VietNam spy in Vn war 





And with General Giap , one of greatest VietNam General .






> The Spy Who Loved Us: The Vietnam War and Pham Xuan Ans Dangerous Game
> 
> In the ten years of what Hanoi calls the American War, An filed 498 intelligence reports for Hanoi according to Vietnamese reports since the wars end. Sent out of Saigon clandestinely to the Viet Congs Cu Chi tunnels complex, the reports were relayed on to Hanoi, where they were personally read by President Ho Chi Minh and General Vo Nguyen Giap. (Their strategic analysis was so well documented that President Ho is said to have once remarked, upon reading an An report, We are now in the U.S. war room!)


thông tin « Ktetaichinhs Blog

He love American , and he helped VN to kill 50k++ American


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## NiceGuy

Cu CHi tunnel around 80km from Sai Gon, built from 1948 avoid the air and ground attack of French troops and US troop after that




Trap inside the tunnel




U.S. 25th Infantry division troops check the entrance to a Vietcong tunnel




It's too small for him ^^


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## dunhill

NeutralCitizen said:


> *It was reported 1-3 Million Viet Cong were killed while the USA suffered 58,300 causalities*. man after watching Rolling Thunder Video, Viet Cong did not give in even after getting hit by more bombs then in WW2.



Neutral Citizen:

With a lack of advance technologies and can not *compair* fire power with US but will still killed *58.000* US troops that amzing job we have done.

Remember: 58.000 troops not 5.8 people. 

More than that, how many airplans falls out in Hanoi (N. Vietnam)? How many airplans did US used during Vietnam War?

If I were you, I will be hide some place and will NEVER talking about US-Vietnam war. 

Think this way, If Vietnam has close fire power like US has, then I think whatever US has troops left we will BBQ them all.

Have a nice day.


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## nehru report

the world knows america lost and vietnam won

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## dunhill

Let me put this simple picture for you all to see:

Vietnam war just like a person with bare hands to confront with a guy with a machine gun. It is no such a great thing for a guy who carry machine gun kill a person with bare hands but it will makes big surprise if a bare hands person kill a guy who has a machine gun or wounded him.

Who is the brave and who was a coward I think people will justified about it.

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## NiceGuy

Operation Linebacker II


> Operation Linebacker II was a US Seventh Air Force and US Navy Task Force 77 aerial bombing campaign, conducted against targets in the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) during the final period of US involvement in the Vietnam War. The operation was conducted from 18&#8211;29 December 1972, leading to several of informal names such as "The December Raids" and "The Christmas Bombings".[5] It saw the largest heavy bomber strikes launched by the US Air Force since the end of World War II. Linebacker II was a resumption of the Operation Linebacker bombings conducted from May to October, with the emphasis of the new campaign shifted to attacks by B-52 Stratofortress bombers rather than tactical fighter aircraft. 1,600 civilians died in Hanoi and Haiphong in the raids


Operation Linebacker II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




















B-52 down by SA2 even coverd by jammer .




Pilot arrested


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## dunhill

For the future war US vs Iran and there is no surprise when US army crushing Iran Army by itself but it will big difference US troops will has bloody noises from Iran Army.

That's only count 1 by 1 but US as a coward country and will never fight alone without its allies. Later on, American (like Neutral Citizen) will proud that US army kill 5 or 10 millions people easily.

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## NiceGuy

dunhill said:


> For the future war US vs Iran and there is no surprise when US army crushing Iran Army by itself but it will big difference US troops will has bloody noises from Iran Army.
> 
> That's only count 1 by 1 but US as a coward country and will never fight alone without its allies. Later on, American (like Neutral Citizen) will proud that US army kill 5 or 10 millions people easily.


If you wanna win a powerful and very smart nation like US, you must have more support (or more allies)and smarter than her.


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## NiceGuy

Dogfight


























Of course VN air forces also won in some air battle, but we don;t know how to make movies like US 

Note that : US F-4 is far superior than Mig-17, Mig 21 , and US's pilot have better training than VN.

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## NiceGuy

The Battle of Dong Hoi


> The Battle of Dong Hoi was a clash between United States Navy warships and three North Vietnamese air force MiG-17F fighter bombers, several torpedo boats and shore batteries on April 19, 1972 during the Vietnam War.
> ........
> One of the MiG-17F's, flown by NVAF pilot Le Xuan Di, scored a direct hit on Higbee with a BETAB-250 (250kg/551lb) bomb, after failing to hit his target twice on two previous attack runs. The MiG was then shot down by a [Standard] surface-to-air missile fired from Sterrett.


Le Xuan Di returned safely and lived until the war end.
Battle of
Le xuan Di and Nguyen Van Bay discuss on how to attack US warship


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## NiceGuy

Tram's diary 






> Entitled &#8220;Dang Thuy Tram &#8211; handbooks found during 1968-1970&#8221;, the book was translated by Jean-Claude Garcias.
> In an article introducing the story, Didier Jacob from The New Observer magazine (Le Nouvel Observateur) writes of the difficult but fortunate journey of the two handbooks, which were discovered by a US secret agent after he survived a battle in Vietnam. He kept the book until 2005, then brought it back to Dang Thuy Tram&#8217;s family.
> The author described Dang Thuy Tram as a gentle and enthusiastic girl who was willing to sacrifice herself for her fatherland.
> According to Didier Jacob, the French version provides more information about the American war in Vietnam, which is usually viewed as one-sided by American people.


Dang Thuy Tram?s Diary to be published in France - news.VietnamHotels.net
Some of 
Volunter girls (from the North)during VN war 








Militian girls(VC) of the South


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## NiceGuy

> The Second Battle of Quang Tri began on June 28 and lasted 81 days until September 16, 1972, when the Army of the Republic of Vietnam (ARVN) defeated the North Vietnamese at the ancient citadel of Qu&#7843;ng Tr&#7883; (Vietnamese: Thành c&#7893; Qu&#7843;ng Tr&#7883 and recaptured most of the province.
> To achieve victory, the Army of the Republic of Vietnam, backed by the United States Army, shelled more than 80,000 tons of ordnance, *the destructive capacity equivalent to almost six Hiroshima-size atomic bombs.*


Most of battles were inside the red square




Second Battle of Qu
footage from South VietNam




North Vn army to defend Quangtri




All of this men smiling in below pic were died in the next South Vn offensive


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## NiceGuy

South VN amry counter attack in Quang Tri battle 1972













Get back some bases




S.VN President visit LaVang church after match


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## Zabaniyah

An unfortunate F-105 meeting a SA-2 over Vietnam:

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## NiceGuy

Battle of Xuân L&#7897;c



> In the last ditch effort to save South Vietnam, President Nguyen Van Thieu ordered his last military units, namely the ARVN 18th Infantry Division "The Super Men", to hold Xuan Loc at all cost.[8] The North Vietnamese 4th Army Corps, on the other hand, was ordered to capture Xuan Loc in order to open the gateway to Saigon.[9] Over a period of twelve days both sides displayed feats of courage, leadership, and determination. During the early stages of the battle, the ARVN 18th Infantry Division managed to beat off numerous attempts by their enemies to capture the town and rout the defenders, forcing PAVN commanders to change their battle plan.[10]


Battle of Xuân L








2 CBU-55 were used in this battle


> CBU-55 was used during the Vietnam War. By April 21, 1975, South Vietnam had largely been conquered by the invading military from the north. Earlier in the month, a single BLU-82 "daisy cutter" had been flown from Thailand to the Bien Hoa airbase. The senior military officer in Vietnam, Major General Homer Smith, cleared the way for the Saigon government to use the weapon against the North Vietnamese Army. A Vietnamese C-130 transport plane circled Xuan Loc at 20,000 feet (6,100 m), then dropped the bomb. The contents exploded in a fireball over a 4-acre (16,000 m2) area.
> 
> Experts estimated that 25 soldiers had been killed, primarily by the immediate depletion of oxygen rather than from burns. The CBU-55 was never used again in the war, and South Vietnam's government surrendered on April 30.[1]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBU-55


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## NeutralCitizen

Nice pictures I will update my pics soon.

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## NiceGuy

Funny movie footage:" Forset gump" about his time in VN




And Heaven and Earth with excellent soundtrack of Kitaro







> Heaven and Earth is a great movie of oliver stone ( so sad but so beautiful ) , very great music of kitaro&#65279; and HIEP THI LE ( Lê Ly ) is a beautiful and wonderful actress


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## redfox

NeutralCitizen said:


> US lost up to 58,300 Troops however killed 1-3 million Vietcong.


 
How glorifying it must be for US troops to have used every means of weaponry in its possessions, including Agent Orange on CIVILIANS, and still with the outcome being of a failure. I am sure you are very proud with satisfaction to the fact to have killed 1-3 million Viet Cong consisting of children as young as 12 being enlisted to liberate Vietnam.


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## Chogy

Agent Orange was a defoliant, and was "used" to defoliate the thick canopy that hid the enemy. It was not an engineered toxin to be used on humans. If you want to intentionally kill people, you use VX, GB, Sarin, or other organophsphate nerve agents. Unfortunately, Agent Orange had some terrible effects.



> consisting of children as young as 12 being enlisted to liberate Vietnam.



And children to this day are used as pawns in war. Are you claiming there was something somehow "heroic" over having child soldiers?

Let's not re-fight the Vietnam war, please.


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## NiceGuy

Russia footage about SAm against USUS air forces


> *Very nice,&#65279; unbiased documentary. It does gloryfy soviet weapons systems a bit, but no more than american documentaries do their own In any case, nice to see things from the other side's view.*


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## NeutralCitizen

Chogy said:


> When troops come home from Iraq and Afghanistan, a huge number of older men are always at the airport to greet them... veterans of Vietnam. They want to give them a "Welcome home" that they themselves did not get.



Vietnam was unlike any war the USA has ever faced since not even Iraq or Afghanistan, Yugoslavia is comparable to it. when Liberalism the hippie movement the draft cards the culture of that time also play a apart. Vietnam Vets were called baby killers or murderers the Military was not cool until the 90's liberating Kuwait. Vietnam Syndrome....... I believe some Lessons of the war were still not learned to this day.


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## NiceGuy

Chogy said:


> When troops come home from Iraq and Afghanistan, a huge number of older men are always at the airport to greet them... veterans of Vietnam. They want to give them a "Welcome home" that they themselves did not get.





NeutralCitizen said:


> Vietnam was unlike any war the USA has ever faced since not even Iraq or Afghanistan, Yugoslavia is comparable to it. when Liberalism the hippie movement the draft cards the culture of that time also play a apart. Vietnam Vets were called baby killers or murderers the Military was not cool until the 90's liberating Kuwait. Vietnam Syndrome....... I believe some Lessons of the war were still not learned to this day.











Dr. Martin Luther King protest against VNwar with English-Vietnemese banner






> In 1967 Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. gave a speech called "Beyond Vietnam", in which he stated:
> 
> They must see Americans as strange liberators. The Vietnamese people proclaimed their own independence -- in 1945 -- after a combined French and Japanese occupation and before the communist revolution in China. They were led by Ho Chi Minh.* Even though they quoted the American Declaration of Independence in their own document of freedom, we refused to recognize them. Instead, we decided to support France in its reconquest of her former colony*. Our government felt then that the Vietnamese people were not ready for independence, and we again fell victim to the deadly Western arrogance that has poisoned the international atmosphere for so long. With that tragic decision we rejected a revolutionary government seeking self-determination and a government that had been established not by China -- for whom the Vietnamese have no great love -- but by clearly indigenous forces that included some communists. For the peasants this new government meant real land reform, one of the most important needs in their lives.
> 
> For video and audio footage of Dr. King's speech see:
> 
> Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. 1929-1968



The American involvement in Vietnam
That's the reason no one gave them a "Welcome home"

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## pmukherjee

NiceGuy said:


> Russia footage about SAm against USUS air forces




There is no glorification here. The SAM-2s were deadly missiles and wreaked havoc. They accounted for a very large percentage of US aircraft losses in the Vietnam war. Gary Power's U-2 was downed by SAM-2s. With the Fan Song fire control and tracking radar, the SAM-2s were very effective for their generation.


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## NiceGuy

pmukherjee said:


> There is no glorification here. The SAM-2s were deadly missiles and wreaked havoc. They accounted for a very large percentage of US aircraft losses in the Vietnam war. Gary Power's U-2 was downed by SAM-2s. With the Fan Song fire control and tracking radar, the SAM-2s were very effective for their generation.


in fact all Fan Song rardar were jammed during Operation Linebacker II in 1972 (same kind of jammer US used in Iraq and Yugoslavia wars), but we still shot down 34 B52 with special technique.


> PAVN claim:
> 81 aircraft shot down
> (including 34 B-52s and 4 F-111s)[3]


Operation Linebacker II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia







> Wild Weasel II and III
> The Wild Weasel role was then passed in the summer of 1966 to the EF-105F Thunderchief. The F-105 Wild Weasel II was a better platform for this role and was equipped with *more advanced radar, jamming equipment, and a heavier armament*. Anti-radiation missiles were outfitted that could seek out radar emplacements. The F-105F Wild Weasel II was eventually replaced by the F-105G Wild Weasel III variant; 61 F-105F units were upgraded to F-105G specifications.





> During the war, the single-seat F-105D was the primary aircraft delivering the heavy bomb loads against the various military targets. Meanwhile, the* two-seat F-105F and F-105G Wild Weasel variants became the first dedicated Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses (SEAD) platforms, fighting against the Soviet-built S-75 Dvina (NATO reporting name: SA-2 Guideline) surface-to-air missiles.* Two Wild Weasel pilots were awarded the Medal of Honor for attacking North Vietnamese surface-to-air missile sites, with one shooting down two MiG-17s the same day. The dangerous missions often required them to be the "first in, last out", suppressing enemy air defenses while strike aircraft accomplished their missions and then left the area.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-105_Thunderchief

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## Chogy

To this day, the F-105 set records as being the heaviest single-engined aircraft to ever get off the ground. Look at that huge bomb load!

The F105 original design was as a tactical nuclear bomber.

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## vtnsx

To support the South&#8217;s government, the United States sent in 2,000 military advisers, a number that grew to 16,300 in 1963. The military condition deteriorated, and by 1963 South Vietnam had lost the fertile Mekong Delta to the Vietcong. In 1965, Johnson escalated the war, commencing air strikes on North Vietnam and committing ground forces, which numbered 536,000 in 1968

CONSEQUENCES OF THE VIETNAM WAR:

1. The Vietnam War cost the United States 58,000 lives and 350,000 casualties. It also resulted in between one and two million Vietnamese deaths (this includes North Vietnamese, South Vietnamese and Civilians).

2. Congress enacted the War Powers Act in 1973, requiring the president to receive explicit Congressional approval before committing American forces overseas.

It was the longest war in American history and the most unpopular American war of the twentieth century. It resulted in nearly 60,000 American deaths and an estimated 2 million Vietnamese deaths. Even today, many Americans still ask whether the American effort in Vietnam was a sin, a blunder, a necessary war, or a noble cause, or an idealistic, if failed, effort to protect the South Vietnamese from totalitarian government.

What I think:

This war wasn't about the American, it was about the unification of South Vietnam and North Vietnam. The South Vietnamese helped the North Vietnamese in many aspects during this war. Otherwise, it would be very difficult for the North Vietnamese to win this war. However, I give props to the winner for its determination to unite the country together at any cost.

Source: The Vietnam War
Source: United States military casualties of war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please don't brag about war, it's not right.


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## Gandhi G in da house

NiceGuy said:


> Dr. Martin Luther King protest against VNwar with English-Vietnemese banner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The American involvement in Vietnam
> That's the reason no one gave them a "Welcome home"



Sorry for going off-topic but i never quite understood why Blacks keep proudly calling themsleves niggers when they don't like to be called that and take offense to it when a non-black person says it ?

If you dont want to be called that then dont refer yourself with term that too so proudly .


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## NiceGuy

Continue from here
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...aced-rising-china-shifts-its-strategy-10.html



jhungary said:


> You better read this buddy. You say North Korean is poor and cannot harm the South Korean? It sure does NOT look like it in the summer of 1950


So ,pls tell me how NK can harm SK now when NK army is far inferior than SK ?? 


jhungary said:


> Plus, we have kill more Vietnamese then Veitnamese kill enough of US. You lost way way WAY more people then we. Don't ever forget that.


People die, people're born , our population still so high now. Losing million men harm Nothing to our population when US losing face and None of your allies now believe you can protect them any more. US lost her credit, her honor in VN war when we only lost men that harm Nothing to us.


jhungary said:


> as i said, i am waiting to see what Cuban+Vietnamese can do, but again, hurry, i think i only have 50 years to live, maybe less. I cannot testiment if nothing happened in my lifetime.


As I said: we're patient men, dude, and also said we will pay back to your kids, old men like you will die bcz of Taliban attack soon, who care :p


=jhungary said:


> Lol, then where is your nuclear bomb, nuclear power station nor nuclear reactor? You don't even have missile that can fly more than 1000 mile. How ar eyou gonna drop your payload to us? LOL


We have a small nuclear plant in Da Lat now and we will have some bigger ones with the help of Russia soon, as you know, with new tech , people can make nuclear secretly . We won't fight in battle field with you , we will ruin you day by day, then, you will collapse like Soviet, dude.


> Laser Advances in Nuclear Fuel Stir Terror Fear
> ..............
> That might be good news for the nuclear industry. But critics fear that if the work succeeds and the secret gets out, rogue states and terrorists could make bomb fuel in much smaller plants that are difficult to detect.
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/science/earth/21laser.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0





jhungary said:


> LOL again, your perfect spies go to jail in YOUR OWN COUNTRY after he return, either he is not too perfect, or your country is seriously f'ed up. Take your pick.


First, do you admit that our perfect spy Pham Xuan An defaced mighty US army and fooled all CIA agents in VN war ??


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## jhungary

NiceGuy said:


> Continue from here
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...aced-rising-china-shifts-its-strategy-10.html
> 
> 
> So ,pls tell me how NK can harm SK now when NK army is far inferior than SK ??
> 
> People die, people're born , our population still so high now. Losing million men harm Nothing to our population when US losing face and None of your allies now believe you can protect them any more. US lost her credit, her honor in VN war when we only lost men that harm Nothing to us.
> 
> As I said: we're patient men, dude, and also said we will pay back to your kids, old men like you will die bcz of Taliban attack soon, who care :p
> 
> We have a small nuclear plant in Da Lat now and we will have some bigger ones with the help of Russia soon, as you know, with new tech , people can make nuclear secretly . We won't fight in battle field with you , we will ruin you day by day, then, you will collapse like Soviet, dude.
> 
> 
> First, do you admit that our perfect spy Pham Xuan An defaced mighty US army and fooled all CIA agents in VN war ??



First of all, you should not just post the answer directly from another thread unless all post was moved otherwise people will not know what we are agruing about. 

Secondly, this is a picture thread, which is not a good place to discuss the war.

you should restart the discussion rather than going mid-way in, so you should delete every thing you said in the last post and we start again. Otherwise it will still be like troll as people don't know what were we yapping about

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## pokdo

We sent troops to nam too 
S.Korea was the second largest foregin force during the vietnam war and they did fight well, due to their COIN experiences from korean war.

checkout the informations about some major battles of s.korean troops in vietnam.

Violent Combat Menu - www.vietvet.co.kr


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## jhungary

pokdo said:


> We sent troops to nam too
> S.Korea was the second largest foregin force during the vietnam war and they did fight well, due to their COIN experiences from korean war.
> 
> checkout the informations about some major battles of s.korean troops in vietnam.
> 
> Violent Combat Menu - www.vietvet.co.kr



Korean troop are very active in South West sector of Vietnam, they actually doing the best job in the country. But it's hard to seperate the ROK troop and US troop as they wear the same thing and using the same weapon.....


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## T-55

A small selection of photographs dedicated to the participation of the South Korean Capital mechanized division ("Tigers") in the Vietnam War; ~ 1964-1973 th years. Capital Mechanized Division was part of the group of South Korean troops slung Vietnam according to agreements between South Korean President Park Chung-hee and the presidential administration of the United States. In addition to the division "Tigers" of the group included the 9th Infantry Division, and 2nd Marine Brigade, as well as several artillery and air support units. The average number of groups operating in Vietnam was 48 thousand people, and just 9 years of presence it passed through the more than 300 000 soldiers, of which 5,100 died. Supply and armed groups completely lay on the shoulders of the Americans (it was one of the main conditions of the agreements)(google translate)


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## T-55

Photos taken in 1965 by photographer Romano Tsagnoni during a trip to North Vietnam


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