# Wing Commander Noman Ali Khan & Squadron Leader Hassan Siddqui, MIG-21Bison & SU-30 MKI slayers



## Windjammer

*This is an earlier image of Wing Commander Noaman Ali Khan before he moved onto JF-17 Squadron. He is credited with the shooting down of Indian MiG-21 on the 27th February.*

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## Maxpane

is he a mig killer or su killer?

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## Zulfiqar

Windjammer said:


> *This is an earlier image of Wing Commander Noaman Ali Khan before he moved onto JF-17 Squadron. He is credited with the shooting down of Indian MiG-21 on the 27th February.*



Aik aur twist. Ab kia scene hai?


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## AfrazulMandal

Why are you changing the story so many times?

How many MiGs were downed?

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## [--Leo--]

where is he now? i wonder he may be flying F-16


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## Windjammer

Maxpane said:


> is he a mig killer or su killer?



He is the MiG shooter where as S/L Hassan is the man who has opened the account of shooting down the first SU-30 in combat.

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## BHarwana

@Windjammer he killed su30

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## [--Leo--]

AfrazulMandal said:


> Why are you changing the story so many times?
> 
> How many MiGs were downed?


1 Su-30MKI
1 Mig21 Bison 

he shot the Su-30MKI

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## AfrazulMandal

[--Leo--] said:


> 1 Su-30MKI
> 1 Mig21 Bison
> 
> he shot the Su-30MKI


Someone else was named earlier.

Did the Su pilot join PAF or will he be returned?

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## hellsingfan

AfrazulMandal said:


> Someone else was named earlier.
> 
> Did the Su pilot join PAF or will he be returned?



Why would a pilot be returned when he's not even missing per IAF

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## [--Leo--]

AfrazulMandal said:


> Someone else was named earlier.
> 
> Did the Su pilot join PAF or will he be returned?



Su-30MKI pilot join up there from where he cannot be returned 

Pray for him

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## Windjammer

Zulfiqar said:


> Aik aur twist. Ab kia scene hai?





AfrazulMandal said:


> Why are you changing the story so many times?
> 
> How many MiGs were downed?


People started drawing their own conclusions without confirmation.
This is why PAF took it's time to confirm the kills accordingly.

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## AfrazulMandal

hellsingfan said:


> Why would a pilot be returned when he's not even missing per IAF


True. So, joined PAF perhaps.


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## Imran Khan

aik or katta khol diya ab

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## Sinnerman108

AfrazulMandal said:


> Someone else was named earlier.
> 
> Did the Su pilot join PAF or will he be returned?



both are dead.


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## Windjammer

The Wing Commander didn't want any unnecessary attention thus wanted to remain anonymous and people naturally assumed that he is the SU-30 shooter.

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## Lincoln

Windjammer said:


> People started drawing their own conclusions without confirmation.
> This is why PAF took it's time to confirm the kills accordingly.



Any clue what happened to the Su-30MKI pilots?


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## Sabretooth

I was watching ARY. Pakistan media is now clearly saying that second downed aircraft is undoubtedly SU-30 MKI. So now the official stance is that Thunder Flanker.

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## Vortex

Alternatiiv said:


> Any clue what happened to the Su-30MKI pilots?



They were in the Mi 17 who crashed due to technical fault caused by a hit of a unknown flying object.



According to India off course.


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## Mugen

Sabretooth said:


> I was watching ARY. Pakistan media is now clearly saying that second downed aircraft is undoubtedly SU-30 MKI. So now the official stance is that Thunder Flanker.


But sir, we cannot always trust media? I am sure our media has been wrong before too. We must do everything to avoid the Indian way.

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## AfrazulMandal

Sinnerman108 said:


> both are dead.


Who is the deceased PAF pilot?


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## Lincoln

AfrazulMandal said:


> Who is the deceased PAF pilot?



Sorry to shoot your narrative down. I have confirmed from my friend in PAF as well. Pakistan lost no jets, and downed 2 IAF jets. You can take my and windjammer's word for it, we have no reason to lie as common people.

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## Vortex

AfrazulMandal said:


> Who is the deceased PAF pilot?


You expect a PAF pilot in the cockpit of an indian SU30 who took off from India?

Are you drunken ?

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## Goenitz

Alternatiiv said:


> Sorry to shoot your narrative down. I have confirmed from my friend in PAF as well. Pakistan lost no jets, and downed 2 IAF jets. You can take my and windjammer's word for it, we have no reason to lie as common people.


kush kar dita soneya.... Alhamdulillah
I will ask my brother in law too, anyway

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## Maxpane

mighty MKI feeling shame
because indians are not capable for this planei

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## Waqar Rashid

Vortex said:


> They were in the Mi 17 who crashed due to technical fault caused by a hit of a unknown flying object.
> 
> 
> 
> According to India off course.



Any source?


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Maxpane said:


> is he a mig killer or su killer?


What's in a name????? In whatever name you call the IAF fighters they are as good as dead meat once inside the Pak* airspace....

*Pak means "purified". And, as per the _KITAP_, "purification" is the last act done on the Muslims before they're sent to _Jennet_ on the _Roz-i Hashr_. Hence, all _Eshep-i Jennet_ are "Pak" by definition. After "purification" Muslims won't have any bad feelings for one another. And, in _Jennet_, it's inhabitants will be provided with something like "aerial vehicles" to move around....

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## aziqbal

From now on the JF17 Thunder should be renamed the JF17 Flanker killer 

The Flanker has been keeping whole of Europe and US at bay for decades 

And the JF17 shot down the FLANKER 

What a news

Next exercise with China we should pitch the JF17 against the Su35 of PLAAF 

Although the Su35 will face the same fate 

Bottom line don’t mess with the Thunder with Pakistani pilot 

They take pride in their aircraft

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## Globalwarrior

I think it’s a mig 27 and mig 21


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## Sabretooth

Mugen said:


> But sir, we cannot always trust media? I am sure our media has been wrong before too. We must do everything to avoid the Indian way.



The discussion was among TV anchor, Air Marshal (Rtd) Shahid Lateef, Maj Gen (Rtd) Ijaz Awan, and a Journalist Fakhar Zaman. These are veterans of their respective fields. I doubt they would engage in a discourse over unverified information.

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## Canuck786

I am a proud Pakistani and always has been. Today is special though!

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## Mugen

Sabretooth said:


> The discussion was among TV anchor, Air Marshal (Rtd) Shahid Lateef, Maj Gen (Rtd) Ijaz Awan, and a Journalist Fakhar Zaman. These are veterans of their respective fields. I doubt they would engage in a discourse over unverified information.


Can I have a link to that video please?


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## Vortex

Waqar Rashid said:


> Any source?



I should have added the “” to my post.

But there was a post indicating that deceased poilet was a SU30 poilet and according to Indians he meet death in the crash of the Mi17

It had also pics with the flowers indians put on the pic of the deceased.

I will try to find it if I have courage.

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## aziqbal

If the Former Air Chief has said that 2 x JF17 has downed two enemy air craft using BVR who is anyone to doubt him? 

Someone online Indian? 

Please keep crying haters JF17 is here to stay

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## FalconStar

Now this is coming from a sitting Federal Minister, who has much more information than online videos and speculation. So we can now definitely say our very own JF17 shot down a far superior Su30. 

You can have all the advance weaponry of the world at your service, but you need determination and Imaan to fight. Weapons and Resources always comes second.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102619851846238214

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## [--Leo--]

i hope this promotion can give us more order of jf-17 
i hope india don't mind


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## Sabretooth

Mugen said:


> Can I have a link to that video please?



It is a show airing live right now:

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## Imran Khan

SU-30 is a big plane it will never hide man

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## Mugen

Sabretooth said:


> It is a show airing live right now:


Damnit! I missed it and it won't let me go back. 
Thanks for the link anyways.


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## Stealth



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## D!nGa Ch!Ba

Hmmm interesting. something is cooking slowly things are getting out from the hot pot slowly.

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## FalconStar

Imran Khan said:


> SU-30 is a big plane it will never hide man


Indians never confirmed which Aircraft went down in IOK. The one they claim, had a technical fault.
You can find videos of it burning and surrounded by Kashmiri's chanting Pakistan Zindabad.

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## D!nGa Ch!Ba

Now man I want to kill Indian bird with my Gulail

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## litman

can anyone tell what is the squadron patch he is wearing?


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## A.Muqeet khan

Imran Khan said:


> SU-30 is a big plane it will never hide man


https://i.giphy.com/9GJ1ArfMNjA3vGhMSW.mp4


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## Sabretooth

Mugen said:


> Damnit! I missed it and it won't let me go back.
> Thanks for the link anyways.



The segment is called ''Power Play''. No worries it will be uploaded back in a couple of days.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Canuck786 said:


> I am a proud Pakistani and always has been. Today is special though!


You will feel the real pride and honor when _Rahmet-li_ Jinnah, by HIS permission, will deliver the final defense, on behalf of the Pak folks, at the _Mahkeme-i Kubra_ on the _Roz-i Hashr_....

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## Jinn Baba

FalconStar said:


> Now this is coming from a sitting Federal Minister, who has much more information than online videos and speculation. So we can now definitely say our very own JF17 shot down a far superior Su30.
> 
> You can have all the advance weaponry of the world at your service, but you need determination and Imaan to fight. Weapons and Resources always comes second.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102619851846238214



Minister of State for Climate Change. Trust me mate, she doesnt know ANYTHING! And it's unlikely that the details have been shared with anyone except the senior members of the cabinet.

Although I too believe we shot a MKI, my belief would not be proved or disproved by what a very junior minister of state says.

Now if ISPR could hold another briefing

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## Mugen

FalconStar said:


> Indians never confirmed which Aircraft went down in IOK. The one they claim, had a technical fault.
> You can find videos of it burning and surrounded by Kashmiri's chanting Pakistan Zindabad.


I believe that video was of a helicopter which crashed there, no?

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## PurAzamBaHadaf

I don't know whether the Indians are actually retarded or not. If this plane fell in Azad Kashmir then the Army or Govt. will release the information soon.


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## aziqbal

May Allah grant them success 

They are the real heroes 

Imagine how many hidden gems we have

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## mmkextreme_1

This is huge coming from a sitting federal minister


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## Sabretooth

It is official. Thunder is Flanker killer.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

aziqbal said:


> May Allah grant them success
> 
> They are the real heroes
> 
> Imagine how many hidden gems we have


When you have _Iman, Ihlas and Uhuvvet_ you can take on the entire _Ehl-i Dunya.._..

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## Sheikh Rauf

Srinivas said:


> WTF !!!!!!!!!


Aap ki cheekhain bata rahi hain ..zakham bohat ghara hai.

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## Pied Piper

Mashallah fantastic news....an upgraded MiG-21 Bison (Israeli avionics/technology upgrade) ....and in the high stand....the state-of-the art Su-30 MKI.....this is a MASSIVE PSYCHOLOGICAL Warfare to inflict on the IAF.....

Alhamdulillah!

hence the Indian news confirmed this initially:

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## Hareeb

Su-30 was targeted, the pilot didn't eject and tried to move the plane inside indian terrority that's why burned body of an Indian pilot could be seen along his crashed plane in videos from IOK. 

India admitted Su-30 was shot down.

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## aziqbal

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> When you have _Iman, Ihlas and Uhuvvet_ you can take on the entire _Ehl-i Dunya.._..



We are also very fortunate to witness something like this

We had grown up hearing stories of our forefathers who were great pilots

Now we live with them

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

What's wrong with the Indian folks???? Won't they ever learn???? Elephants have always been destroyed by the fast charging horsemen flanking them along with sharpshooters!!!! The first and third wars of _Panipat _are enough to understand this simple fact....

Looks like the genes in the DNAs of Babur, EbdAli etc. are stuck in this side of the Indus river...

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## Flash_Ninja

Hareeb said:


> Su-30 was targeted, the pilot didn't eject and tried to move the plane inside indian terrority that's why burned body of an Indian pilot could be seen along his crashed plane in videos from IOK.
> 
> India admitted Su-30 was shot down.



That burned body was from a heli crash

The current theory is that both pilots ejected one fell into Azad Kashmir the other into IOK, and the one in Azad Kashmir is either dead or still in custody

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## Great Janjua

Take this with a pinch off salt, I certainly do not believe any PDF member has any sort so called contact,With PAF wait for official confirmation

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## aziqbal

JF17 just smoked a 4th generation world renouned plane guys 

This is amazing but we always knew 

JF17 is a Flanker killer 

The fly past on 23rd is going to be amazing

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## Stealth

BHarwana said:


> @Windjammer he killed su30


he shot down SU30 not Hassan


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## Ultima Thule

Hareeb said:


> Su-30 was targeted, the pilot didn't eject and tried to move the plane inside indian terrority that's why burned body of an Indian pilot could be seen along his crashed plane in videos from IOK.
> 
> India admitted Su-30 was shot down.


Already posted in various threads


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## airomerix

I seldom post on this forum. Primarily because speculation is something which I do not believe in. 

However, having worked in some capacity with the armed forces. The following pieces of information is what ALL the stakeholders have mentioned with consistency (Stakeholders also include the much famed pilots). 
However for reasons I will not disclose the entire matter. 

1) Mig was downned by Wg Cmdr. 
2) Su-30 was downed by S/L Hassan
3) PAF lost no air assets. Both the jets landed back safely. (Which ones, I will not detest). 
4) Both the country's are at the brink of war even right now. Literally. 
5) Non-conventional attacks are on cards. Since Mod's is paranoid. He has lost trust in his high command to carry out such raids. The pilot capture has been very unpleasant for India. Particularly IAF. 
6) Entire western air command of IAF has been reshuffled. From AOC to flight commanders of fighter squadrons. New AOC has been given a task to fill the gap by whatever means. Bring back glory.

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## khail007

Mugen said:


> I believe that video was of a helicopter which crashed there, no?


MI-17 was crashed on Indian side near Budgam-IOK and not in Bhimber.


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## aziqbal

Guys does this now bring us into the BVR era ?

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## Hareeb

Flash_Ninja said:


> That burned body was from a heli crash





Flash_Ninja said:


> The current theory is that both pilots ejected one fell into Azad Kashmir the other into IOK, and the one in Azad Kashmir is either dead or still in custody


6 personnels were killed in heli crash while only one burned body was seen in the video.

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## AsianLion

Massive News!!! 

Nouman Ali Khan destroyed the IAF Mig-21 Israeli Bison.

Hasan Siddiqui destroyed the IAF Su-30 Mki.

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## Skyliner

Modi be like:
Itne se the, pak na
Itne khulle krde

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## Cash GK

Imran Khan said:


> aik or katta khol diya ab


good material for 5/6 days discussion lol


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Flash_Ninja said:


> That burned body was from a heli crash
> 
> The current theory is that both pilots ejected one fell into Azad Kashmir the other into IOK, and the one in Azad Kashmir is either dead or still in custody


They might have shot down their chopper in SAR mission to hide the facts...

Looks like the Indian establishment is hijacked by Hindutva extremist terrorists!!!! And, this is the scenario they always try to depict for Pak!!!! By the by, these extremists' first and foremost fight is against their own folks...

Pak _Bahane_, Ambani*/Hindutva/RSS etc. _Shahane_....

*represents 50 folks (Marwari, Parsai, Jain etc.) who control 70% of India's wealth​

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## Salza

The secrecy kept by paf/ispr has created lots of doubts frankly speaking. Who downed which plane etc - well not exciting anymore.


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## Flash_Ninja

Hareeb said:


> 6 personnels were killed in heli crash while only one burned body was seen in the video.



Watch the video again, I believe you can see quite clearly the rotor and some of the tail from a mi-17


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## A.P. Richelieu

Stealth said:


> View attachment 544250



The JF-17 must be wearing a F-16 disguise.
Or is there another explanation?

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## The Eagle

W/C Noman scored IAF Mig-21 and that makes sense as well as validates DG ISPR statement that no F-16 was used in strike. IAF Mig-21 was inside Pakistan and we took it down. S/L Hassan Siddiqui scores SU-30 MKI (big bird) with JF-17. There is a reason that Officials remained silent over this & done proper homework before disclosing the names of both PAF pilots.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The JF-17 must be wearing a F-16 disguise.
> Or is there another explanation?


Perhaps you should use your brain for once.

Even the indian mig-21 pilot was once flying su-30.

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## SABRE

aziqbal said:


> JF17 just smoked a 4th generation world renouned plane guys
> 
> This is amazing but we always knew
> 
> *JF17 is a Flanker killer*
> 
> The fly past on 23rd is going to be amazing



That was one of the key aspects halfway through its development. PAC & CAC aimed for something capable of bringing down frontline jets like Su-30. The Russians seemed to have picked it up & saw the project as a single engine MiG-29. This was one of the key reasons they were apprehensive about selling RD-93 but later released the sales to Pakistan.

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## aziqbal

Allah O Akbar 

Sukhoi lovers suck it up

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## Srinivas

Sheikh Rauf said:


> Aap ki cheekhain bata rahi hain ..zakham bohat ghara hai.



Dude, this is too much !


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## PDF

aziqbal said:


> Guys does this now bring us into the BVR era ?


Yes and No. While we do know BVR will be utilized in the 21st century and especially between conflicts between larger countries, in the Pakistan-India situation, WVR will be the dominated and will be found common. This does not lessen the significance of BVR tactics and utilization as the fighting strategies continue to evolve with time... In this particular case, If PAF slot down the enemy jet using BVR missile as it is reported, I personally think it was just a one-off case. This scenario won't be found generally.

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## SABRE

doorstar said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/



Jets were shot down in the morning. This is a night time video. A lot to be speculated and questioned here.


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## The Eagle

doorstar said:


> this one is in bhimber at 7 o'clock local time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/



Cannot be relied. Please avoid posting non-credible sources or videos...


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## SABRE

doorstar said:


> this is from tonight



Has PAF shot down another one?


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## PurAzamBaHadaf

doorstar said:


> this is from tonight



which is why I am skeptical to trust this as much as I want to. DG ISPR nor the GoI have said anything about this and we know ISPR is the first source to release such information.


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## ZAC1

Its time to edit jf-17 wikipedia data

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## Desert Fox

aziqbal said:


> Bottom line don’t mess with the Thunder with Pakistani pilot


Our pilots are second to NONE.

They transformed MiG's into deadly machines during the Arab Israeli wars, the same migs which Arab pilots were being swatted out of the skies in by the Israelies became deadly machines in the hands of PAF pilots.

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## Oruc

is it true?

Pak Spy Drone Shot Down By Sukhoi-30 In Rajasthan's Bikaner: Sources


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## SHAH07

SABRE said:


> Jets were shot down in the morning. This is a night time video. A lot to be speculated and questioned here.


Why didn’t you post than ? Now when the vid is out your saying jets were shotdown in morning :/


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## sparten

Strife said:


> is it true?
> 
> Pak Spy Drone Shot Down By Sukhoi-30 In Rajasthan's Bikaner: Sources


Probably. These are slow machines.


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## A.P. Richelieu

airomerix said:


> I seldom post on this forum. Primarily because speculation is something which I do not believe in.
> 
> However, having worked in some capacity with the armed forces. The following pieces of information is what ALL the stakeholders have mentioned with consistency (Stakeholders also include the much famed pilots).
> However for reasons I will not disclose the entire matter.
> 
> 1) Mig was downned by Wg Cmdr.
> 2) Su-30 was downed by S/L Hassan
> 3) PAF lost no air assets. Both the jets landed back safely. (Which ones, I will not detest).
> 4) Both the country's are at the brink of war even right now. Literally.
> 5) Non-conventional attacks are on cards. Since Mod's is paranoid. He has lost trust in his high command to carry out such raids. The pilot capture has been very unpleasant for India. Particularly IAF.
> 6) Entire western air command of IAF has been reshuffled. From AOC to flight commanders of fighter squadrons. New AOC has been given a task to fill the gap by whatever means. Bring back glory.



India’s claim that they shot down an F-16 which crashed a few km inside Pakistan is suspicious for a reason not mentioned.
Clearly the use of F-16s is a sensitive issue.
I really doubt that PAF for that reason will let F-16s near the border when a conflict ensues.
They are much more likely to stay behind and engage with BVR missiles.

Only 1-2 days before PAF was significantly raising its level of preparedness and PDF comments were jubilant about Mirages and F-16 patrolling en masse.
From that, I draw the conclusion that PAF still considers the F-16 its primary line of defense.

It would be very surprising if they were totally absent when PAF is attacking Indian bases.
I believe the plan was that if the strike could get through without opposition, the F-16s would be left out, but as soon as Su-30MKIs were in the picture, PAF would rather take the fallout of US wrath than lose one or more planes.

It is clearly not advantageous for PAF to admit publicly that F-16s were used.
They will always claim any kills were made by something else, so why not the JF-17.

The MiG kill is much more likely to have been made by a JF-17.

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## Tps43

Windjammer said:


> He is the MiG shooter where as S/L Hassan is the man who has opened the account of shooting down the first SU-30 in combat.
> 
> 
> View attachment 544244


Wc nouman is su30 shooter


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## alee92nawaz

Windjammer said:


> He is the MiG shooter where as S/L Hassan is the man who has opened the account of shooting down the first SU-30 in combat.
> 
> 
> View attachment 544244


Can't believe anything without a proof.


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## A.P. Richelieu

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Perhaps you should use your brain for once.
> 
> Even the indian mig-21 pilot was once flying su-30.


Celebrating a JF-17 kill, while proudly standing next to an F-16?
Using Your brain causes you to question the narrative.
Not using Your brain causes you to criticize those questioning the narrative.

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## ZAC1

aziqbal said:


> From now on the JF17 Thunder should be renamed the JF17 Flanker killer
> 
> The Flanker has been keeping whole of Europe and US at bay for decades
> 
> And the JF17 shot down the FLANKER
> 
> What a news
> 
> Next exercise with China we should pitch the JF17 against the Su35 of PLAAF
> 
> Although the Su35 will face the same fate
> 
> Bottom line don’t mess with the Thunder with Pakistani pilot
> 
> They take pride in their aircraft


Paf exercise with flankers came fruit full in the end...we know flankers weakness from them

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## Falcon26

Sabretooth said:


> It is a show airing live right now:





A.P. Richelieu said:


> Celebrating a JF-17 kill, while proudly standing next to an F-16?
> Using Your brain causes you to question the narrative.
> Not using Your brain causes you to criticize those questioning the narrative.



Don’t embarrass yourself any further. The photo posted is a dated one. It’s no secret the pilot in question was once an F-16 pilot.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Haaaaaaaiin???
Aerial combat hai yar Habib bank ki branch


Windjammer said:


> opened the account


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## Cash GK

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Celebrating a JF-17 kill, while proudly standing next to an F-16?
> Using Your brain causes you to question the narrative.
> Not using Your brain causes you to criticize those questioning the narrative.


are sure you are Swedish? just a question...


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## ZAC1

What u think iaf CAP consists one aircraft only...


Srinivas said:


> WTF !!!!!!!!!



What u think iaf CAP consists one aircraft only...


Srinivas said:


> WTF !!!!!!!!!


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## Ahmet Pasha

@Windjammer yo windy whats the sitrep???
This whole thing is making me very dazed and confused.


----------



## The Eagle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Celebrating a JF-17 kill, while proudly standing next to an F-16?
> Using Your brain causes you to question the narrative.
> Not using Your brain causes you to criticize those questioning the narrative.



Do have info at hand about PAF pilots rotations etc & their serving in respect of current Squadrons/deployment..... I am sure looking at a picture, which could be dated as you have no evidence about the source & fresh copy, doesn't make necessary to be a proof to support your claim....... Most F-16 riders are deployed to JF-17s... 

Regards,

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## alee92nawaz

The Eagle said:


> Do have info at hand about PAF pilots rotations etc & their serving in respect of current Squadrons/deployment..... I am sure looking at a picture, which could be dated as you have no evidence about the source & fresh copy, doesn't make necessary to be a proof to support your claim....... Most F-16 riders are deployed to JF-17s...
> 
> Regards,


Pakistani media has been certainly throwing the word su30 alot since yesterday. I am still skeptical unless PAF confirms. Zartaj gul is chawal in all aspects. Forgive me but i don't believe in PDF guys with their so called inside sources.


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## Canuck786

Mugen said:


> Can I have a link to that video please?



Here you go!

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## Zulfiqar



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## Secret Service

Windjammer said:


> *This is an earlier image of Wing Commander Noaman Ali Khan before he moved onto JF-17 Squadron. He is credited with the shooting down of Indian MiG-21 on the 27th February.*


It is a landmark achievement for PAF.


----------



## Dil Pakistan

aziqbal said:


> From now on the JF17 Thunder should be renamed the JF17 Flanker killer
> The Flanker has been keeping whole of Europe and US at bay for decades
> And the JF17 shot down the FLANKER
> What a news
> Next exercise with China we should pitch the JF17 against the Su35 of PLAAF
> *Although the Su35 will face the same fate*
> Bottom line don’t mess with the Thunder with Pakistani pilot
> They take pride in their aircraft



BHAI! …. yeh wali line thori ziyadah ho gai


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## The Eagle

alee92nawaz said:


> Pakistani media has been certainly throwing the word su30 alot since yesterday. I am still skeptical unless PAF confirms. Zartaj gul is chawal in all aspects. Forgive me but i don't believe in PDF guys with their so called inside sources.



I will take AM Retd. Shahid Latif words more than Zartajgul Tweet.

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## Mugen

Canuck786 said:


> Here you go!


Thank you


----------



## Canuck786

The Eagle said:


> I will take AM Retd. Shahid Latif words more than Zartajgul Tweet.


Posted the video above - unfortunately it's the whole program.


----------



## Clairvoyant

Windjammer said:


> *This is an earlier image of Wing Commander Noaman Ali Khan before he moved onto JF-17 Squadron. He is credited with the shooting down of Indian MiG-21 on the 27th February.*


Check the video grab from today in which the Air chief is patting him on the back,he is clearly wearing a 5 squadron patch.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Celebrating a JF-17 kill, while proudly standing next to an F-16?
> Using Your brain causes you to question the narrative.
> Not using Your brain causes you to criticize those questioning the narrative.


A pic by a PAF member identifying the pilot = celebrating JF-17 kill?

As I said, use your brain for once.

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## valkyr_96

A.P. Richelieu said:


> India’s claim that they shot down an F-16 which crashed a few km inside Pakistan is suspicious for a reason not mentioned.
> Clearly the use of F-16s is a sensitive issue.
> I really doubt that PAF for that reason will let F-16s near the border when a conflict ensues.
> They are much more likely to stay behind and engage with BVR missiles.
> 
> Only 1-2 days before PAF was significantly raising its level of preparedness and PDF comments were jubilant about Mirages and F-16 patrolling en masse.
> From that, I draw the conclusion that PAF still considers the F-16 its primary line of defense.
> 
> It would be very surprising if they were totally absent when PAF is attacking Indian bases.
> I believe the plan was that if the strike could get through without opposition, the F-16s would be left out, but as soon as Su-30MKIs were in the picture, PAF would rather take the fallout of US wrath than lose one or more planes.
> 
> It is clearly not advantageous for PAF to admit publicly that F-16s were used.
> They will always claim any kills were made by something else, so why not the JF-17.
> 
> The MiG kill is much more likely to have been made by a JF-17.


 I personally find this very plausible and have said this earlier as well. I will, however, prod you release your payload in haste on the "reason not mentioned".


----------



## CHACHA"G"

Modi again threaten Pakistan …… He said ghar main ghus ker marain gay...………...


----------



## Dil Pakistan

CHACHA"G" said:


> Modi again threaten Pakistan …… He said ghar main ghus ker marain gay...………...



Question is: kis kay ghar mein? …. apnay?


----------



## MM_Haider

Hareeb said:


> Su-30 was targeted, the pilot didn't eject and tried to move the plane inside indian terrority that's why burned body of an Indian pilot could be seen along his crashed plane in videos from IOK.
> 
> India admitted Su-30 was shot down.



three pilots were ejected .... two from SU30 and one from MiG 21... the burned body is a different case of chopper crash on the same day..

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## Village life

Guys calm down war is not over yet, today Pakistani media is much aggressive ,some thing might happen ،،،،،،

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## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102633407912263680

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## jupiter2007

anyond seen this video?


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## CHACHA"G"

doorstar said:


> this one is in bhimber at 7 o'clock local time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


Sounds fake...….. "chal lai hai" ……… Sounds so fake...…….


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## maverick1977

So it’s been confirmed, I shared these two names by 4:30 am on the day of shooting :p

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## Avicenna

A.P. Richelieu said:


> India’s claim that they shot down an F-16 which crashed a few km inside Pakistan is suspicious for a reason not mentioned.
> Clearly the use of F-16s is a sensitive issue.
> I really doubt that PAF for that reason will let F-16s near the border when a conflict ensues.
> They are much more likely to stay behind and engage with BVR missiles.
> 
> Only 1-2 days before PAF was significantly raising its level of preparedness and PDF comments were jubilant about Mirages and F-16 patrolling en masse.
> From that, I draw the conclusion that PAF still considers the F-16 its primary line of defense.
> 
> It would be very surprising if they were totally absent when PAF is attacking Indian bases.
> I believe the plan was that if the strike could get through without opposition, the F-16s would be left out, but as soon as Su-30MKIs were in the picture, PAF would rather take the fallout of US wrath than lose one or more planes.
> 
> It is clearly not advantageous for PAF to admit publicly that F-16s were used.
> They will always claim any kills were made by something else, so why not the JF-17.
> 
> The MiG kill is much more likely to have been made by a JF-17.



Complete speculation based on your whims.

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## Khan_21

As a Young Kid I used to hear tales of the immense talent of PAF fighters and always used to think if that ferocious attitude is still there . Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan and Squadron leader Hassan Thank you for making the Nation Proud

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## TsAr

maverick1977 said:


> So it’s been confirmed, I shared these two names by 4:30 am on the day of shooting :p


where?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

A.P. Richelieu said:


> India’s claim that they shot down an F-16 which crashed a few km inside Pakistan is suspicious for a reason not mentioned.
> Clearly the use of F-16s is a sensitive issue.
> I really doubt that PAF for that reason will let F-16s near the border when a conflict ensues.
> They are much more likely to stay behind and engage with BVR missiles.
> 
> Only 1-2 days before PAF was significantly raising its level of preparedness and PDF comments were jubilant about Mirages and F-16 patrolling en masse.
> From that, I draw the conclusion that PAF still considers the F-16 its primary line of defense.
> 
> It would be very surprising if they were totally absent when PAF is attacking Indian bases.
> I believe the plan was that if the strike could get through without opposition, the F-16s would be left out, but as soon as Su-30MKIs were in the picture, PAF would rather take the fallout of US wrath than lose one or more planes.
> 
> It is clearly not advantageous for PAF to admit publicly that F-16s were used.
> They will always claim any kills were made by something else, so why not the JF-17.
> 
> The MiG kill is much more likely to have been made by a JF-17.


India claims this wreckage (its own mig-21 bison) as an F-16;

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Can't understand why the Pak folks are making so much fuss about it????? Isn't it a part of the "job description" of the PAF pilots?????? According to President Trump, it doesn't even qualify for a regular pay rise, if lucky to get paid at all.....

IAF pilots have done their job - getting blown up by the PAF....

PAF pilots have done their job - blowing up the IAF....

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## ZAC1

Please some one edit wkikpedia

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## Jango

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> India claims this wreckage (its own mig-21 bison) as an F-16;
> 
> 
> View attachment 544275
> View attachment 544276
> View attachment 544277
> View attachment 544278
> View attachment 544279
> View attachment 544280
> View attachment 544281
> View attachment 544282
> View attachment 544283
> View attachment 544284
> View attachment 544286



Can we for the love of God move on from this now?

This theory has been comprehensively busted by all and sundry, let's not give any more air time to it.

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## D!nGa Ch!Ba

Currently in india

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## Sheikh Rauf

Srinivas said:


> Dude, this is too much !


Offcourse when WTF is in place then you deserve to hear somthing too much.

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## Hareeb

Flash_Ninja said:


> Watch the video again, I believe you can see quite clearly the rotor and some of the tail from a mi-17





MM_Haider said:


> three pilots were ejected .... two from SU30 and one from MiG 21... the burned body is a different case of chopper crash on the same day..


I stand corrected. This was a heli crash.


----------



## Trailer23

Here guys...see who flew the Air Chief Marshall in last years (2018) 23rd March Flay Past in the F-16.

*Check Timescodes:*
*00:06* - *Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan* putting the patch on the Air Chief Marshall
*00:12* - Standing next to Air Chief Marshall before the flight for the Flypast in a 2-seater F-16.





​He is also part of the 3000 Flight Hours Club on the F-16​






Here he (*Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan*) is during Red Flag in 2010

*Check Timecodes:*
*00:51* - After landing at Nellis AFS
*01:22* - Getting ready to go on a Mission (Check the number on the F-16: *620*)
*03:10* - After Mission - You can't see him, but again check the number on the F-16 (90*620*)





​

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## Windjammer



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## truthseeker2010

Trailer23 said:


> Here guys...see who flew the Air Chief Marshall in last years (2018) 23rd March Flay Past in the F-16.
> 
> *Check Timescodes:*
> *00:06* - *Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan* putting the patch on the Air Chief Marshall
> *00:12* - Standing next to Air Chief Marshall before the flight for the Flypast in a 2-seater F-16.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​He is also part of the 3000 Flight Hours Club on the F-16​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here he (*Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan*) is during Red Flag in 2010
> 
> *Check Timecodes:*
> *00:51* - After landing at Nellis AFS
> *01:22* - Getting ready to go on a Mission (Check the number on the F-16: *620*)
> *03:10* - After Mission - You can't see him, but again check the number on the F-16 (90*620*)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



So he is block 52 pilot, as shown in the first video!


----------



## maverick1977

TsAr said:


> where?



in one of the multiple threads without sharing their ranks... it was confirmed by Airforce friedns

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## truthseeker2010

The Eagle said:


> I will take AM Retd. Shahid Latif words more than Zartajgul Tweet.



Please share his remarks


----------



## Trailer23

truthseeker2010 said:


> So he is block 52 pilot, as shown in the first video!


Truth be told, I don't really know if its actually a Block-52, or one of F-16B's that had gone through the MLU. I'm sure that there are a number of guys who can tell you what type was flown on 23rd March, 2018.


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## AsifIjaz

Downing of mki can b translated into no su35 or mig35 for india... 
Its most likely will be either rafael or gripenNG or just may be F21.


----------



## Trailer23

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102608491569659905

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## JonAsad

I hope in due time the HUD video is released by Pakistan..

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## BATMAN

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The JF-17 must be wearing a F-16 disguise.
> Or is there another explanation?


Both look similar. Quite similar aspect ration of wings etc.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> They are much more likely to stay behind and engage with BVR missiles.


AIM will become erroneous the after crossing Pakistan's border.


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## SecularNationalist

Windjammer said:


> The Wing Commander didn't want any unnecessary attention thus wanted to remain anonymous and people naturally assumed that he is the SU-30 shooter.


true that sqn/ldr hassan got famous because of his uploaded video,the flanker killer preferred to keep it silent

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## MM_Haider

Windjammer said:


> *This is an earlier image of Wing Commander Noaman Ali Khan before he moved onto JF-17 Squadron. He is credited with the shooting down of Indian MiG-21 on the 27th February.*


Don’t get surprised if you see this photo of Nouman in Indian media as proof that F16s were involved in the action against Indian plane intrusion .. @Windjammer be careful while posting such images ..

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## imadul

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> You will feel the real pride and honor when _Rahmet-li_ Jinnah, by HIS permission, will deliver the final defense, on behalf of the Pak folks, at the _Mahkeme-i Kubra_ on the _Roz-i Hashr_....


Muqam-e-kubra for The Messenger, Bro
You are carried away.
Muhammad Ali Jinnah was Pakistan founder. He was disappointed and left England for India. It is said, Messenger came in his dream and ordered him to go back India and lead Pakistan Movement. This is the reason Jinnah never wavered and doubted creation of Pakistan. Pakistan came into being one year before the creation of Israel which was helped by Lord Balfour and sykes-picot agreements.

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## GumNaam

This is confirmed by Ansar Abbasi of The News Group...the question is, how reliable IS Mr. Ansar Abbasi, he IS associated with the geo/jang kabbal after all and we all know how they are now don't we?!

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## imadul

airomerix said:


> I seldom post on this forum. Primarily because speculation is something which I do not believe in.
> 
> However, having worked in some capacity with the armed forces. The following pieces of information is what ALL the stakeholders have mentioned with consistency (Stakeholders also include the much famed pilots).
> However for reasons I will not disclose the entire matter.
> 
> 1) Mig was downned by Wg Cmdr.
> 2) Su-30 was downed by S/L Hassan
> 3) PAF lost no air assets. Both the jets landed back safely. (Which ones, I will not detest).
> 4) Both the country's are at the brink of war even right now. Literally.
> 5) Non-conventional attacks are on cards. Since Mod's is paranoid. He has lost trust in his high command to carry out such raids. The pilot capture has been very unpleasant for India. Particularly IAF.
> 6) Entire western air command of IAF has been reshuffled. From AOC to flight commanders of fighter squadrons. New AOC has been given a task to fill the gap by whatever means. Bring back glory.


Anything possible. PAF and PN wont give them opportunity to do another Atlantique. 
But IAF will try it's best even after full descalation.


----------



## SecularNationalist

see guys i was right and thats what i said on first day after watching abhninandan flying su30


----------



## alee92nawaz

The Eagle said:


> I will take AM Retd. Shahid Latif words more than Zartajgul Tweet.


Yeah but we have no proof.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

The Eagle said:


> Do have info at hand about PAF pilots rotations etc & their serving in respect of current Squadrons/deployment..... I am sure looking at a picture, which could be dated as you have no evidence about the source & fresh copy, doesn't make necessary to be a proof to support your claim....... Most F-16 riders are deployed to JF-17s...
> 
> Regards,



And if PAF wanted to show off?
They could not take a new picture with the JF-17?
Would a pilot worth his salt accept that ”his kill” is tainted by fake news?
Just saying that all stones in this affair has not been turned.


----------



## shining eyes

LOL!! - Confusing FACTS

1st wreckage in Pakistan is Mig 21 BISON -
2nd Wreckage in IOK is MIG 21 BISON -
3rd wreckage in IOK that is MI16

4th Wreckage: Flanker?? Mig 21 Bison??

FLANKER: NOT FOUND: probably in India or its not shot < This also aligns with the story of other wreckage in IOK being of mig 21 bison (The one they claimed to be of F16)

Mig 21 Bison: FOUND (2nd wreckage)

Pilot in Pakistan? WTF??, if we have the pilot, he ejected this side of border and plane crashed on the other OR we don't have the pilot which aligns with the official story of ISPR.

Its really confusing...

For the sake of facts, i am not buying it,,, No F16 was downed and no flanker was downed.

It was 2 Bisons and 1 MI16


----------



## zulu

GumNaam said:


> This is confirmed by Ansar Abbasi of The News Group...the question is, how reliable IS Mr. Ansar Abbasi, he IS associated with the geo/jang kabbal after all and we all know how they are now don't we?!
> View attachment 544299


Yes and he is one of their loud mouthpiece Ansar Abbasi and about jang/geo known connections and agenda(dont forget their previous record too) i m starting to worried what they are planning now


----------



## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/JF-17-Thunder/1675

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## zulu

Khair doodh ky dhullay to baqi bhi nahi hain rem the "dawn leaks"""??great opportunity lost just to gain some BS very little political and media gains


----------



## GumNaam

shining eyes said:


> LOL!! - Confusing FACTS
> 
> 1st wreckage in Pakistan is Mig 21 BISON -
> 2nd Wreckage in IOK is MIG 21 BISON -
> 3rd wreckage in IOK that is MI16
> 
> 4th Wreckage: Flanker?? Mig 21 Bison??
> 
> FLANKER: NOT FOUND: probably in India or its not shot < This also aligns with the story of other wreckage in IOK being of mig 21 bison (The one they claimed to be of F16)
> 
> Mig 21 Bison: FOUND (2nd wreckage)
> 
> Pilot in Pakistan? WTF??, if we have the pilot, he ejected this side of border and plane crashed on the other OR we don't have the pilot which aligns with the official story of ISPR.
> 
> Its really confusing...
> 
> For the sake of facts, i am not buying it,,, No F16 was downed and no flanker was downed.
> 
> It was 2 Bisons and 1 MI16


here you go buddy...




^^^ straight from the indian media itself...


----------



## Irfan Baloch

Windjammer said:


> He is the MiG shooter where as S/L Hassan is the man who has opened the account of shooting down the first SU-30 in combat.
> 
> 
> View attachment 544244


how I like Zulfiqar is stabbing the IAF roundel



GumNaam said:


> here you go buddy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ straight from the indian media itself...


I think it was a slip of tongue. he meant to say other way round because the tickers were claiming F-16 was downed by Indian forces

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## shining eyes

GumNaam said:


> here you go buddy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ straight from the indian media itself...


With your green color username i thought you'd have already watched the whole video. The clip is taken out of context.


----------



## The Eagle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And if PAF wanted to show off?
> They could not take a new picture with the JF-17?
> Would a pilot worth his salt accept that ”his kill” is tainted by fake news?
> Just saying that all stones in this affair has not been turned.



So PAF needs to take a fresh picture of him with JF-17 so that people may believe? 

The time will tell who got the score of mig or su. However, you may like to read my first post in this thread, in case you want to understand.

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## Shahzaz ud din

*Who is Wing Commander Noman Ali Khan & what was his role on 27th Feb 2019*
Now the stories starting to develop further & infact starting to revel about Wing Commander Noman Ali Khan after Chief of Air Staff Mujahid Anwar Khan visited "Forward Operation Base". As per "inside" reports & as in recent interview by AVM (R) Shahid Latif there were two pilots one was Sdrn. Ldr Hassan and there was a wing commander and his name is Noman Ali Khan. As per developing story, It was Wing Commander Noman Ali Khan who was flying JF 17 and he shot Mig 21 and Sdrn. Ldr Hassan shot down SU-30 MKI. And the other version is Sdrn Ldr Hassan shot down Mig 21 Bison & Wing Comndr Noman flygin JF 17 as well shot SU 30. I am still trying to sneak peak today video which shows Pakistan CAS patting an officer as if he is Wing Comndr Noman??

In couple of days it would be much clear with un deniable proof as Indian planning to do another misadventure and then second pilot story will be unleashed which put Indians into more misery and humiliation and even we will see Indian CAS sacked as well as might be captured pilot is big fish which indian never wanted to reveal....






























__ https://www.facebook.com/








The nation salutes also the other Pak Air Force superstar, Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan who destroyed the other Indian Air Force jet SU - 30 that crashed on Indian side.⚡⚡
#SaluteandRespect❤

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## GumNaam

shining eyes said:


> With your green color username i thought you'd have already watched the whole video. The clip is taken out of context.


your boy says it right in the beginning that an su30 has been shot down by the PAF. how the hell is that out of context???

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## SQ8

@Windjammer 
Is it an Indian national personality issue( perhaps in us as well but lesser) that is causing them these issues?

If one looks at Cope India, the Indians try to set themselves up for a win, playing their blue forces an advantage to give themselves an inferior red force to fight with all the time.

This contrasts completely with the IAF in and post 71 where they trained well and focused on tactics to beat ours; here they look like they became too full of themselves and are smarting from it.
In addition, looks like airline brain drain from the 90s onwards has taken a better of their officers as well.

What I mean to say is, despite all the weapons, foriegn exercises and so on; it looks like the IAF was sent in over-confident or mistrained.

That doesn’t mean they arent now adapting, preparing and learning at a maddening pace; the PAF shouldn’t let its early success get to its head.

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## Trailer23

SecularNationalist said:


> see guys i was right and thats what i said on first day after watching abhninandan flying su30


Hold on...
Q1. If Abhinandhan was flying a Su-30, how did it end up back in India and him at the hands of the PAK Army? And where is his Rio?

Q2. We have the MiG-21, so where is its Pilot - if it isn't Abhinandhan?

I'm pretty sure Abhinandhan was flying the MiG-21, but it would have made it easy if the patch from his Squadron have been visible in any of the videos.

The mystery of the Su-30MKi has got a lot of people scratching their heads and conspiracy theorist working overtime with their version of what happened.

Although, i'm hoping that some of our guys have been bragging about something BIG (whale type) info in the not-so-distant future. Looking forward to it.


----------



## shining eyes

GumNaam said:


> your boy says it right in the beginning that an su30 has been shot down by the PAF. how the hell is that out of context???


Watch the full video brother


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## GumNaam

shining eyes said:


> With your green color username i thought you'd have already watched the whole video. The clip is taken out of context.


says that the F-16 shot down an su30. I've seen the full video, the shiv aroo guy immediately goes into damage control mode by FIRST stating that it is impossible these days to capture both planes in one frame and then tries to cover up the indian shame by reversing the statement that the F-16 was actually shot down but the su30. But let's face it, the truth came out FIRST and in a panic.

And also explain this crash while your at it:




indians are saying that its the chopper crash. that doesn't look like chopper wreckage to me...listen to after 0:38seconds, you clearly hear the indian police officer saying "sir yeh mig tha yeh". either another mig21 or mig29 or he is using the word "mig" as an synonym for "jet" but was actually the su30.

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## Shahzaz ud din

*JF-17, not F-16, used in air combat - CNN report*






Apparently, it was a JF-17 fighter jet that brought down an Indian warplane in Azad Jammu and Kashmir last week, says a CNN report as an American diplomat said Washington wanted to know if Pakistan used a US-built F-16 jet to shoot the plane.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
The JF-17 is a Chinese-designed fighter jet produced jointly by Pakistan and China.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
“It may have been one of those jets that on Wednesday downed an Indian Air Force fighter plane, leading to the capture by Pakistan of an Indian pilot” Abhinandan Varthaman, said the CNN report released this weekend. The report also noted that the Indian jet was a MiG-21, a Soviet-designed aircraft, which has been in service since the 1960s. The MiG-21 “forms the backbone” of the Indian Air Force, which has about 200 of those in its inventory.
Nishank Motwani, a visiting fellow at the Asia-Pacific College of Diplomacy, Acton, Australia, told _CNN_ that Indian pilots called the plane “a flying coffin” because it had been involved in multiple accidents.

“And that illustrates a problem for India. While it has a massive military budget, a significant chunk of that goes toward maintenance of existing equipment, and salaries,” the report added.

The report included a quote from a recent inquiry by an Indian parliament committee, saying: “Modernisation gets a mere 14 per cent (of allocated funds), which is grossly inadequate.”

A spokesperson for the US Embassy in Islamabad told the _Reuters_ news agency on Sunday that the United States was “seeking information” on whether Pakistan used US-built F-16 jets to down the Indian warplane, which may violate the F-16 sale agreements between Washington and Islamabad.

Pakistan said it did not use F-16s in shooting down the Indian fighter jet when it crossed the Line of Control. Islamabad also said that this was an act of self-defence.

“We are aware of these reports and are seeking more information,” the US Embassy spokesperson said. “We take all allegations of misuse of defence articles very seriously.”

The US often inserts restrictions on how its exported military hardware can be used through so-called end-user agreements.

India claimed that AIM-120C-5 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile had been fired recently, showing that F-16 Viper fighter jets were “at least involved” in recent strikes in the region. Pakistan rejected the Indian claim as completely baseless. India also claimed that it shot down one of the Vipers.

Pakistan rejected this claim as well, saying that since it had not used any F-16 jets, the question of one being shot down did not arise.


Source

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## Windjammer

Oscar said:


> @Windjammer
> Is it an Indian national personality issue( perhaps in us as well but lesser) that is causing them these issues?
> 
> If one looks at Cope India, the Indians try to set themselves up for a win, playing their blue forces an advantage to give themselves an inferior red force to fight with all the time.
> 
> This contrasts completely with the IAF in and post 71 where they trained well and focused on tactics to beat ours; here they look like they became too full of themselves and are smarting from it.
> In addition, looks like airline brain drain from the 90s onwards has taken a better of their officers as well.
> 
> What I mean to say is, despite all the weapons, foriegn exercises and so on; it looks like the IAF was sent in over-confident or mistrained.
> 
> That doesn’t mean they arent now adapting, preparing and learning at a maddening pace; the PAF shouldn’t let its early success get to its head.


Alas it turned out to be a double edge sword, on one side they were overconfident of themselves like in 1965 and at the same time thinking PAF is operating with one hand tied due to financial constraints and lack of new platforms. To be honest, world was expecting some low intensity kind of reply from PAF but as NYT said the observers are left dumbfounded. 
It's interesting no one picked up on Modi's comments, he said, ''if we had Rafales, we wouldn't have suffered so much loss''.....surely he wasn't just talking about losing couple of aircraft along with pilots.....and it's not as if Rafales are running later than original plan.
And one wonders if some third party also suffered some losses on the ground that they are keen to company with our bewildered neighbor.

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## Taimoor Khan

Great Janjua said:


> Take this with a pinch off salt, I certainly do not believe any PDF member has any sort so called contact,With PAF wait for official confirmation



I knew both names from the day one. It's correct information.

Both SU30 and Mig21 kills were made by JF17s using SD10 BVRs.

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## GumNaam

Great Janjua said:


> Take this with a pinch off salt, I certainly do not believe any PDF member has any sort so called contact,With PAF wait for official confirmation


there may never be an official confirmation for the sake of not embarrassing our new russian friends. but it'll come out a few years later when all things have settled.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

GumNaam said:


> there may never be an official confirmation for the sake of not embarrassing our new russian friends. but it'll come out a few years later when all things have settled.


Now, the only way out for the Russians to keep the business is to "push sale" Su-35s to the PAF, even if its a symbolic #....



Taimoor Khan said:


> I knew both names from the day one. It's correct information.
> 
> Both SU30 and Mig21 kills were made by JF17s using SD10 BVRs.


The most important part is the BVR engagement!!! It means the entire EW spectrum of the IAF is compromised!!! If it's from the foreign vendors' "export versions" it is even more damaging!!!! For, they'll now never disclose their indigenous ones, which will be kept only for their very own forces....

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## GumNaam

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Now, the only way out for the Russians to keep the business is to "push sale" Su-35s to the PAF, even if its a symbolic #....
> 
> 
> The most important part is the BVR engagement!!! It means the entire EW spectrum of the IAF is compromised!!! If it's from the foreign vendors' "export versions" it is even more damaging!!!! For, they'll now never disclose their indigenous ones, which will kept only for their very own forces....


agreed. They should also push the SU35 to Turkey as Turkey wants to distance itself from the u.s. and nato control freaks.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

GumNaam said:


> agreed. They should also push the SU35 to Turkey as Turkey wants to distance itself from the u.s. and nato control freaks.


May not be the finished package, but some sorts of JVs, cooperation etc. with the Russian aeronautics giants are inevitable...



The Eagle said:


> So PAF needs to take a fresh picture of him with JF-17 so that people may believe?
> 
> The time will tell who got the score of mig or su. However, you may like to read my first post in this thread, in case *you want to understand*.


He didn't, doesn't and won't.....

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## PurAzamBaHadaf

GumNaam said:


> agreed. They should also push the SU35 to Turkey as Turkey wants to distance itself from the u.s. and nato control freaks.



Don't think that will happen considering Turkey plans on buying the F35 and I don't see Turkey going for a inferior Su35.


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## Taimoor Khan

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Can't understand why the Pak folks are making so much fuss about it????? Isn't it a part of the "job description" of the PAF pilots?????? According to President Trump, it doesn't even qualify for a regular pay rise, if lucky to get paid at all.....
> 
> IAF pilots have done their job - getting blown up by the PAF....
> 
> PAF pilots have done their job - blowing up the IAF....




Funny thing is, IAF was the collateral damage. The real deal was the PAF ground strikes. Special around Indian army chief while he was in army HQ. I have to say that PAF planners are mental or they just have some nasty sense of humour. What if the bombs wavered a little bit and you have a roasted Gen pippin to deal with! Start of nuke war?

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## GumNaam

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> May not be the finished package, but some sorts of JVs, cooperation etc. with the Russian aeronautics giants are inevitable...
> 
> 
> He didn't, doesn't and won't.....


yup.


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## PurAzamBaHadaf

Taimoor Khan said:


> Funny thing is, IAF was the collateral damage. *The real deal was the PAF ground strikes*. Special around Indian army chief while he was in army HQ. I have to say that PAF planners are mental or they just have some nasty sense of humour. What if the bombs wavered a little bit and you have a roasted Gen pippin to deal with! Start of nuke war?



I heard about SSG conducting a group strike inside Indian and apparently, the Heli which crashed was the one chasing the heli carrying the commandoes out but it was shot down Rumours but I feel there is a sense of truth in them.


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## GumNaam

PurAzamBaHadaf said:


> Don't think that will happen considering Turkey plans on buying the F35 and I don't see Turkey going for a inferior Su35.


I highly doubt the su35 is in any way inferior to the f35.


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## Taimoor Khan

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> The most important part is the BVR engagement!!! It means the entire EW spectrum of the IAF is compromised!!! If it's from the foreign vendors' "export versions" it is even more damaging!!!! For, they'll now never disclose their indigenous ones, which will be kept only for their very own forces....



What I know, after speaking to folks in PAF, SD10 is a beast. 

What significance this dogfight over Kashmir would have over South China sea situation , only time will tell. But yanks better be aware.

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## PurAzamBaHadaf

GumNaam said:


> I highly doubt the su35 is in any way inferior to the f35.



I'm saying this from talking to people in the RAF but there might be bias. There are also quite a few articles published which compare both jets and Su35 lacks behind in almost every component except for CRC.


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## Canuck786

maverick1977 said:


> So it’s been confirmed, I shared these two names by 4:30 am on the day of shooting :p


Yes you did.. Well done brother!



PS: the targets were swapped though.

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## Humble Analyst

Srinivas said:


> Dude, this is too much !


If this too much what was WTF statement by you Sir?


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## GumNaam

Canuck786 said:


> Yes you did.. Well done brother!
> 
> 
> 
> PS: the targets were swapped though.

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## scorpionx

I am just loving this propaganda war from Pakistan.

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## Canuck786

scorpionx said:


> I am just loving this propaganda war from Pakistan.


That's the irony we Pakistanis know nothing else but to spread love. If you have doubts ask Abhinandan Chaiwala!

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## airmarshal

So please @Windjammer please clear this confusion. 

Was it two MiG-21s or one MiG-21 and one Su-30?

Was Wing Commander pilot of Su-30 or the shot down MiG-21?

There was an account on twitter saying the downed Mi-17 was being used as EW platform. Too much conflicting news.


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## Slides

Frankly not believing anything without proof.


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## Vortex

Lol it seems that the silence and the confusion entertained by our authorities is more painful than the Indians attacks itself 

I’m also in this situation


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## untitled

scorpionx said:


> I am just loving this propaganda war from Pakistan.


We have not heard any news regarding Wing Commander Shahzaz Ud Din recently. Any updates?

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## scorpionx

member.exe said:


> We have not heard much news regarding Wing Commander Shahzaz Ud Din lately. Any updates?


I do not believe it unless IAF comes up with any concrete proof to support their claim.



Canuck786 said:


> That's the irony we Pakistanis know nothing else but to spread love. If you have doubts ask Abhinandan Chaiwala!


What Wc Abhinandan has achieved in his life, online generals and airmarshals can only dream of. If you don't have to put anything better, please dont waste my time.

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## GumNaam

scorpionx said:


> I do not believe it unless IAF comes up with any concrete proof to support their claim.
> 
> 
> What Wc Abhinandan has achieved in his life, online generals and airmarshals can only dream of. If you don't have to put anything better, please dont waste my time.


here are your wc abhinandan's achievements:
got shot down on his very first real combat mission without even firing a shot himself and that too, while flying iaf's queen fighter, the su30.
drank genuine Pakistani chai.
got a smack on his buttcheeks and sent back to india.
retired.

I've seen better achievements from my daughter's pet goldfish!

end of discussion!

Pakistan has ALWAYS been very gracious in victory, kinda like beat the enemy up and then take him to emergency for first aid followed by starbucks for coffee!



Vortex said:


> Lol it seems that the silence and the confusion entertained by our authorities is more painful than the Indians attacks itself
> 
> I’m also in this situation


don't bother waiting man. there's a lot to loose diplomatically if we announce that shooting the su30 down was a piece of cake. Pakistan and Russia's friendship is just starting to take off and their s400 system has already been plenty humiliated by the u.s. over and over again. they are very sensitive about this and don't want their latest equipment to get a bad name. they only have two economically viable exports, energy and weapons. Let's not take one away from our new found friend.

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## scorpionx

GumNaam said:


> here are your wc abhinandan's achievements:
> got shot down on his very first real combat mission without even firing a shot himself and that too, while flying iaf's queen fighter, the su30.
> drank genuine Pakistani chai.
> got a smack on his buttcheeks and sent back to india.
> retired.
> 
> I've seen better achievements from my daughter's pet goldfish!
> 
> end of discussion!
> 
> Pakistan has ALWAYS been very gracious in victory, kinda like beat the enemy up and then take him to emergency for first aid followed by starbucks for coffee!


Getting shot in an air battle when odds are high is not a matter of shame, if you are trying to imply so. I think many of your pilots too got shot in the past, may be? Are they looked down upon too, in your country?

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## Maxpane

Tps43 said:


> Wc nouman is su30 shooter


paka sir g?

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## hellsingfan

Frankly it doesn't matter who shot the SU-30. That is only for the person's personal promotion. Kudos to them.

But if we can just prove that we shot down SU-30MKI then IAF will be made a laughing stock of the world.

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## GumNaam

scorpionx said:


> Getting shot in an air battle when odds are high is not a matter of shame, if you are trying to imply so. I think many of your pilots too got shot in the past, may be? Are they looked down upon too, in your country?


I never said anything about how getting shot down is shameful now did I? I just listed out his achievements that you were ranting about. funny you mentioned "shameful"...maybe deep inside you are feeling his shame, cursing at him that "aray kam say kam aik darakht hi gira day ta...yoon ka toon gir giya kameena"!

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## Avicenna

scorpionx said:


> Getting shot in an air battle when odds are high is not a matter of shame, if you are trying to imply so. I think many of your pilots too got shot in the past, may be? Are they looked down upon too, in your country?



Getting shot down isn't shameful.

In fact, your pilot seemed like a gentleman. I wish him well.

Whats shameful is Indian media has gone bat sh#t crazy.

And your Modi is a d-bag.

Not to mention the online horde of kool aid drinking Hindu nazis.

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## Beast

aziqbal said:


> From now on the JF17 Thunder should be renamed the JF17 Flanker killer
> 
> The Flanker has been keeping whole of Europe and US at bay for decades
> 
> And the JF17 shot down the FLANKER
> 
> What a news
> 
> Next exercise with China we should pitch the JF17 against the Su35 of PLAAF
> 
> Although the Su35 will face the same fate
> 
> Bottom line don’t mess with the Thunder with Pakistani pilot
> 
> They take pride in their aircraft


China J-11B and J-16 are different beast. It will even eat J-10C and J-17 combine together for lunch.

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## Riz

Slides said:


> Frankly not believing anything without proof.


Lol.. Here you want proofs while in india no one cant even allowed to ask about proods...

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## GumNaam

hellsingfan said:


> Frankly it doesn't matter who shot the SU-30. That is only for the person's personal promotion. Kudos to them.
> 
> But if we can just prove that we shot down SU-30MKI then IAF will be made a laughing stock of the world.


iaf is already a laughing stock of the world.

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## Slides

Riz said:


> Lol.. Here you want proofs while in india no one cant even allowed to ask about proods...



Exactly my point. Unlike Indians, we should only go on actual proof. Let's not be like Indians.


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## scorpionx

GumNaam said:


> I never said anything about how getting shot down is shameful now did I? I just listed out his achievements that you were ranting about. funny you mentioned "shameful"...maybe deep inside you are feeling his shame, cursing at him that "aray kam say kam aik darakht hi gira day ta...yoon ka toon gir giya kameena"!


Not sure what you are upto. Anyways.


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## GumNaam

scorpionx said:


> Not sure what you are upto. Anyways.


thought so...


----------



## scorpionx

Avicenna said:


> Getting shot down isn't shameful.
> 
> In fact, your pilot seemed like a gentleman. I wish him well.
> 
> Whats shameful is Indian media has gone bat sh#t crazy.
> 
> And your Modi is a d-bag.
> 
> Not to mention the online horde of kool aid drinking Hindu nazis.


I agree wholeheartedly.

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## valkyr_96

scorpionx said:


> I am just loving this propaganda war from Pakistan.


It would be nice if you could just stick to your own. Yes there is nothing shameful about what had happened but what followed next was indeed shameful and will likely persist.


Avicenna said:


> Getting shot down isn't shameful.
> 
> In fact, your pilot seemed like a gentleman. I wish him well.
> 
> Whats shameful is Indian media has gone bat sh#t crazy.
> 
> And your Modi is a d-bag.
> 
> Not to mention the online horde of kool aid drinking Hindu nazis.


 I am afraid its not just the online horde. Income equality and joblessness with trigger a incessant bomb. Modi has been playing on national fervour because in times like these one need a boogey man. This reminds me of fascism which was borne out of the great depression. I see more lynching, riots, disenfranchisement, rape and other excess. The American economy is expected to cool down (as if it is beating at the moment) if we slip into a recession the contagion will just exacerbate the situation. Why would'nt the hindus choose a person who envision hindu dominance?

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## ziaulislam

So far international media...
1. belives mig21 shot down..
2.takes second shot down with pinch of salts..
3. considers india claims of f16 shot down as absurd 

We are still waiting for solid proof on su30 knock out

What happened to mi17 is mystery, one thing is known it fell at same time as contest/shootout

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## Avicenna

valkyr_96 said:


> It would be nice if you could just stick to your own. Yes there is nothing shameful about what had happened but what followed next was indeed shameful and will likely persist.
> I am afraid its not just the online horde. Income equality and joblessness with trigger a incessant bomb. Modi has been playing on national fervour because in times like these one need a boogey man. This reminds me of fascism which was borne out of the great depression. I see more lynching, riots, disenfranchisement, rape and other excess. The American economy is expected to cool down (as if it is beating at the moment) if we slip into a recession the contagion will just exacerbate the situation. Why would'nt the hindus choose a person who envision hindu dominance?



Yea I agree. 

The online presence is indicative of a dangerous phenomenon brewing at large.

I am concerned.


----------



## litman

Beast said:


> China J-11B and J-16 are different beast. It will even eat J-10C and J-17 combine together for lunch.


indians used to make such tall claims about su 30 as well.

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## airmarshal

Which missiles did JF-17 fire to score those kills? 

Where did that AIM-120 piece come from? Did it kill a third plane or missed its target?



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Celebrating a JF-17 kill, while proudly standing next to an F-16?
> Using Your brain causes you to question the narrative.
> Not using Your brain causes you to criticize those questioning the narrative.



The guy standing beside F-16 is an old picture. He converted to JF-17. 

My impression is F-16 was used. It fired an AIM-120 to shoot a plane not a bird. The F-16 fired missile on its side of border. So Pakistan claiming that F-16 was not used is technically correct as it never crossed the border.

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## Zarvan

When things settle down PAF should release FOOTAGE

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## Canuck786

scorpionx said:


> ..What Wc Abhinandan has achieved in his life, online generals and airmarshals can only dream of. If you don't have to put anything better, please dont waste my time.


It was just silly humor and I regretted it the moment I posted but by then cat was already out of the hat. Apologies from the heart as I know how it would feel if someone said similar crap about our heroes!

See we only know and want to spread love.

Kind Regards,
Proud Pakistani

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## siegecrossbow

litman said:


> indians used to make such tall claims about su 30 as well.



I think he is making the claim based on latest Golden Helmet exercise results from 2018 where the J-16 indeed ate J-10C for breakfast.

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## Riz

Zarvan said:


> When things settle down PAF should release FOOTAGE


Ap indians ko photo kia HD videos bhi dikha do phir bhi nhi manain gay..hahaa


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## Rashid Mahmood

All aircraft have a gun camera which records video of everything during a flight.
It would be a treat to watch these kills through the lens, however these would never be released.

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## Imran Khan

i don't think PAF will release such footage to public

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## Tps43

Maxpane said:


> paka sir g?


Jee paka


----------



## Maxpane

Tps43 said:


> Jee paka


shukriya sir g

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## Sinnerman108

aziqbal said:


> From now on the JF17 Thunder should be renamed the JF17 Flanker killer
> 
> The Flanker has been keeping whole of Europe and US at bay for decades
> 
> And the JF17 shot down the FLANKER
> 
> What a news
> 
> Next exercise with China we should pitch the JF17 against the Su35 of PLAAF
> 
> Although the Su35 will face the same fate
> 
> Bottom line don’t mess with the Thunder with Pakistani pilot
> 
> They take pride in their aircraft



Remember the shaheen exercise, 
we learned these tactics by pitching thunder against the chineese flankers.

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## SQ8

Imran Khan said:


> i don't think PAF will release such footage to public


Could for the JF, not so for the other aircraft due to whiny ones

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## Sabretooth

Sinnerman108 said:


> Remember the shaheen exercise,
> we learned these tactics by pitching thunder against the chineese flankers.



That is my assessment too.


----------



## Zarvan

Riz said:


> Ap indians ko photo kia HD videos bhi dikha do phir bhi nhi manain gay..hahaa


Who gives a dam about Indians

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## Amaa'n

Thats why they say you don't mess with a wild cat....this is not just a scratch, killed the damn Asian raptor

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## Srinivas

Humble Analyst said:


> If this too much what was WTF statement by you Sir?



No Sukhoi debris and how can PAF claim it shit down su 30 MKI?


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## ziaulislam

Srinivas said:


> No Sukhoi debris and how can PAF claim it shit down su 30 MKI?


I agree no evidence provided for su30 kill
Its just a claim as well as the absurd claim of f16

We have to wait for each side to provide something tangible

It will be big boast for jf-17 if PAF provides data for both kills..

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## AMG_12

Srinivas said:


> No Sukhoi debris and how can PAF claim it shit down su 30 MKI?


IAF chief "thinks" an F-16 was shot down (his statement from the day before). And to back up his claim he showcases a piece of AMRAAM. PAF has, thus far, not officially claimed SU-30 being shot down except for the initial media reports and online speculations. 
Now to answer your question; Indian hasn't released a single evidence of the F-16 being shot down from debris to eyewitnesses or footage. Our claim of SU-30 downed by PAF was strengthened by a proof presented by your chief. To conclude; If an F-16 was shot down, even a minor evidence would spark a debate in Pakistani circles. PAF is opening up to international media to account for it's F-16 numbers. On the other hand, minor details are coming to light like the name of the pilot. And perhaps we may see better evidence for the SU kill. I'd suggest we wait and watch how things unfold in the due time.

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## JF-17ThunderBlock3

hellsingfan said:


> Why would a pilot be returned when he's not even missing per IAF



Good one, One think tickled my mind yesterday when new name Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan. In the beginning our media houses just showed one 1 Pilot Hassan Siddiqui. Why we didnt hear Su-30MKI killer earlier?


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## Areesh

scorpionx said:


> I agree wholeheartedly.



Despite being an enemy WC Abhinandan appeared to be a professional. No hard feelings for him.

Problem as @Avicenna said is with your government and your foolish media. and your hindutva bhakts

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## I.R.A

scorpionx said:


> I am just loving this propaganda war from Pakistan.



modi (the sick bastard) is on record ..... again trying to fool the modi bakhts by saying.

"Agar hamary pass Rafale hota to ajj nateeja kuch aur hota ......"

"If we had with us the Rafale jets today, the result would have been different......".

If I was an indian I would surely have asked him how the fck Rafale would have made any difference at this time, in absence of relevant infrastructure and everything including training needed to support its operations. But I am not an indian so what I can ask is

What does modi mean by "the result would have been different....." ........?????? india still holds the advantage in shape of SU so I don't quite understand ...... is he admitting the failure of SU jets? Downgrading Russian equipment? Or simply trying to spin and answer corruption charge against him?

_"Prime Minister Narendra Modi, addressing the India Today Conclave 2019, said that the situation would have been different, had the government procured Rafale jets and today the whole nation is missing Rafale."

Source_

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## truthseeker2010

Trailer23 said:


> Truth be told, I don't really know if its actually a Block-52, or one of F-16B's that had gone through the MLU. I'm sure that there are a number of guys who can tell you what type was flown on 23rd March, 2018.



CAS was on b-52


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## scorpionx

I.R.A said:


> modi (the sick bastard) is on record ..... again trying to fool the modi bakhts by saying.
> 
> "Agar hamary pass Rafale hota to ajj nateeja kuch aur hota ......"
> 
> "If we had with us the Rafale jets today, the result would have been different......".
> 
> If I was an indian I would surely have asked him how the fck Rafale would have made any difference at this time, in absence of relevant infrastructure and everything including training needed to support its operations. But I am not an indian so what I can ask is
> 
> What does modi mean by "the result would have been different....." ........?????? india still holds the advantage in shape of SU so I don't quite understand ...... is he admitting the failure of SU jets? Downgrading Russian equipment? Or simply trying to spin and answer corruption charge against him?
> 
> _"Prime Minister Narendra Modi, addressing the India Today Conclave 2019, said that the situation would have been different, had the government procured Rafale jets and today the whole nation is missing Rafale."
> 
> Source_


I am an apolitical person. But let me tell you this, forget about as a politician, I don't hold him in a very high regard as a human being too. His all predecessors like Vajpayee and MMS were more work and less talk. This guy is just opposite. I will not say more.

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## POPEYE-Sailor

AfrazulMandal said:


> Someone else was named earlier.
> 
> Did the Su pilot join PAF or will he be returned?



*For your acknowledge, in this video IOkashimri cheering pakistan, *





*in this video just have a look from 1.23 the engine tail looks like SU-30 *





After having these video wht we gona to say PAF shoot down 2 aircraft as PAF claim, We are not like IAF who change their statement like we killed 350 militant, then no we did not count, then we want to warn Pakistan and blah blah blah..!!!! 

Moreover In news conference IAF acepted that PAF targeted Indian military ammunition deppo as PAF claim at first day. 

cheers


----------



## Devil Soul

*Second Indian aircraft was shot down by PAF pilot Nauman Ali Khan, details surface*


Listen








ISLAMABAD: Pakistan shot down two Indian aircraft violating its airspace on February 27 and captured one its pilots Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman.

Details of the Pakistani pilots who shot down the Indian aircraft have surfaced on social media.

The News Editor Investigations Ansar Abbasi Tweeted, “Wing commander Nauman shot down SU 30 while Sqn Leader Hassan Siddique hit MIG 21.”

It may be noted here that Pakistan military has not formally announced the names of its pilots who shot down Indian aircraft.

In response to Indian aggression, Pakistan surprised India by shooting down their two fighter jets in the broad day light. One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K while other fell inside IoK. 

One Indian pilot was also taken into custody by Pakistani troops.

The Pakistani squadron leader Hassan Siddiqui received a hero’s welcome as soon as his plane touched down after successfully downing Indian jet(s) which violated Pakistan’s territorial integrity. 
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/4...-by-paf-pilot-nauman-ali-khan-details-surface


----------



## Frank Martin

ahmedlatif said:


> *For your acknowledge, in this video IOkashimri cheering pakistan, *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *in this video just have a look from 1.23 the engine tail looks like SU-30 *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After having these video wht we gona to say PAF shoot down 2 aircraft as PAF claim, We are not like IAF who change their statement like we killed 350 militant, then no we did not count, then we want to warn Pakistan and blah blah blah..!!!!
> 
> Moreover In news conference IAF acepted that PAF targeted Indian military ammunition deppo as PAF claim at first day.
> 
> cheers



The second video shows the Mi17 that was crashed some 150kms away on the same day. This is the nth time it is being posted and debunked.

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## Windjammer

*This was Indian media reporting on the crash of the IAF SU-30 on the Indian side of LOC.*


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## Akasa

Windjammer said:


> *This is an earlier image of Wing Commander Noaman Ali Khan before he moved onto JF-17 Squadron. He is credited with the shooting down of Indian MiG-21 on the 27th February.*



*There.
Is.
No.
Conclusive.
Evidence.
That.
Pakistan.
Shot.
Down.
A.
Sukhoi.
*
Period.

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## Trailer23

Trailer23 said:


> Here guys...see who flew the Air Chief Marshall in last years (2018) 23rd March Flay Past in the F-16.
> 
> *Check Timescodes:*
> *00:06* - *Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan* putting the patch on the Air Chief Marshall
> *00:12* - Standing next to Air Chief Marshall before the flight for the Flypast in a 2-seater F-16.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​He is also part of the 3000 Flight Hours Club on the F-16​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here he (*Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan*) is during Red Flag in 2010
> 
> *Check Timecodes:*
> *00:51* - After landing at Nellis AFS
> *01:22* - Getting ready to go on a Mission (Check the number on the F-16: *620*)
> *03:10* - After Mission - You can't see him, but again check the number on the F-16 (90*620*)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Right now...US be like, "Damn, we had him over at Red Flag..."


----------



## JF-17ThunderBlock3

mano sankar said:


> Great
> 
> Old is gold
> 
> Old s-125 shot down a stealthy f-117A night hawk
> Old S-200 shot down israel f-16 in syria
> Old Mig-21 Shot Down Pak f-16 in kashmir



Explain your OLD is Gold Theory to your PM, so the least save some bucks for Toilet development program nation wide.
As Moodi was Dreadful to prove importance of RAFALE Deal
He urged his wish-fullness in a sheer grim manner 
If we had Rafale , The result would be different ( Different means vital evidence based ) 
We miss RAFALE like someone misses the Salt in biryani. Cmon


----------



## Windjammer

Akasa said:


> *There.
> Is.
> No.
> Conclusive.
> Evidence.
> That.
> Pakistan.
> Shot.
> Down.
> A.
> Sukhoi.
> *
> Period.


*You can't describe sunrise to a blind person . Period.*

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## alee92nawaz

Akasa said:


> *There.
> Is.
> No.
> Conclusive.
> Evidence.
> That.
> Pakistan.
> Shot.
> Down.
> A.
> Sukhoi.
> *
> Period.


Don't tell this to fan boys. We shall believe it when PAF claims it.


----------



## Windjammer

alee92nawaz said:


> Don't tell this to fan boys. We shall believe it when PAF claims it.


Who do you think disclosed the names of the pilots and attributed the kills accordingly but only false flaggers and retards have difficulty in comprehending or digesting the news.

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## raja786

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Celebrating a JF-17 kill, while proudly standing next to an F-16?
> Using Your brain causes you to question the narrative.
> Not using Your brain causes you to criticize those questioning the narrative.


That's he's old picture when he had hair. Now he is boldi.

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## hellsingfan

Windjammer said:


> *This was Indian media reporting on the crash of the IAF SU-30 on the Indian side of LOC.*



They say Budgham. Which as video suggests was the copter. Can’t really trust media reports for specifics just that “something happened”.


----------



## JohnWick

Akasa said:


> *There.
> Is.
> No.
> Conclusive.
> Evidence.
> That.
> Pakistan.
> Shot.
> Down.
> A.
> Sukhoi.
> *
> Period.


Come on it is not a shame on your flanker Fleet including the chinese copies.


----------



## Shameel

Windjammer said:


> *This is an earlier image of Wing Commander Noaman Ali Khan before he moved onto JF-17 Squadron. He is credited with the shooting down of Indian MiG-21 on the 27th February.*



Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan downed the IAF Su-30MKI (first kill) and Squadron Leader Hasan Siddiqui downed the IAF MiG-21 (second kill). IAF Mil Mi-17 downed at the same time was a fratricide.

I have confirmed this from my source in PAF.



Srinivas said:


> No Sukhoi debris and how can PAF claim it shit down su 30 MKI?



PAF has not officially claimed the downing of a Su-30MKI yet. It has only officially claimed that two IAF fighters were shot down (through DG ISPR), one of which turned out to be a MiG-21. So the PAF has not taken any aircraft names. I do believe that the PAF will claim the Su-30MKI downing in the near future. Even the PAF pilots' names who downed the two Indian jets have not been released officially, although they have been leaked and everyone now knows who those pilots are.

There is no evidence of the Su-30MKI debris with Pakistan because the wreckage fell in Indian-Occupied Kashmir, which has been covered up by the Indian Air Force because it was too embarrassing to admit. The only reason the IAF admitted the downing of its MiG-21 and Wg. Cdr. Abhinandan was because Pakistan had the wreckage and the pilot. The fate of the Su-30 pilots is unknown but both most likely ejected according to PAF sources as well as civilian witnesses who saw two parachutes deploy, most likely landing on the Indian side. However, it is not known, which side they landed. If one is with Pakistan, then India is in a Catch-22 situation. If it asks for the pilot, then it has to admit that a Su-30MKI was shot down. If it doesn't, then the pilot remains in Pakistani custody to be revealed at the appropriate time.

The reason the PAF may not officially own up to the Su-30MKI downing (at least in the foreseeable future) is probably two-fold:

1. The Su-30MKI was probably shot down by an F-16 (saving grace for India) using an AIM-120 AMRAAM and PAF doesn't want to annoy the Americans. I believe the IAF salvaged the AIM-120 pieces from the wreckage of the downed Su-30MKI.

2. It doesn't want to annoy the Russians because the Russians will be embarrassed if a Russian-made fighter with Russian missiles was shot down by either a JF-17 or F-16. Pakistan needs Russian support in many areas, least of all for the JF-17's RD-93 engines.

I don't believe that the IAF can cover up a Su-30MKI loss for too long. Sooner or later the story will come out.

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## MM_Haider

shining eyes said:


> LOL!! - Confusing FACTS
> 
> 1st wreckage in Pakistan is Mig 21 BISON -
> 2nd Wreckage in IOK is MIG 21 BISON -
> 3rd wreckage in IOK that is MI16
> 
> 4th Wreckage: Flanker?? Mig 21 Bison??
> 
> FLANKER: NOT FOUND: probably in India or its not shot < This also aligns with the story of other wreckage in IOK being of mig 21 bison (The one they claimed to be of F16)
> 
> Mig 21 Bison: FOUND (2nd wreckage)
> 
> Pilot in Pakistan? WTF??, if we have the pilot, he ejected this side of border and plane crashed on the other OR we don't have the pilot which aligns with the official story of ISPR.
> 
> Its really confusing...
> 
> For the sake of facts, i am not buying it,,, No F16 was downed and no flanker was downed.
> 
> It was 2 Bisons and 1 MI16


how do you know the wreckage on the IOK was of MiG 21? it was definitely SU-30 since three pilots were ejected.. two from SU 30 amd one from MiG 21.. 





and on the wreckage clearly the burning tail of aircraft is visible.. 






& the first news on ZEE News 






so please don't tell me otherwise... PAF JF17 definitely killed SU-30... 



Akasa said:


> *There.
> Is.
> No.
> Conclusive.
> Evidence.
> That.
> Pakistan.
> Shot.
> Down.
> A.
> Sukhoi.
> *
> Period.


till Pakistan releases gun footage!


----------



## Avicenna

Shameel said:


> Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan downed the IAF Su-30MKI (first kill) and Squadron Leader Hasan Siddiqui downed the IAF MiG-21 (second kill). IAF Mil Mi-17 downed at the same time was a fratricide.
> 
> I have confirmed this from my source in PAF.
> 
> 
> 
> PAF has not officially claimed the downing of a Su-30MKI yet. It has only officially claimed that two IAF fighters were shot down (through DG ISPR), one of which turned out to be a MiG-21. So the PAF has not taken any aircraft names. I do believe that the PAF will claim the Su-30MKI downing in the near future. Even the PAF pilots' names who downed the two Indian jets have not been released officially, although they have been leaked and everyone now knows who those pilots are.
> 
> There is no evidence of the Su-30MKI debris with Pakistan because the wreckage fell in Indian-Occupied Kashmir, which has been covered up by the Indian Air Force because it was too embarrassing to admit. The only reason the IAF admitted the downing of its MiG-21 and Wg. Cdr. Abhinandan was because Pakistan had the wreckage and the pilot. The fate of the Su-30 pilots is unknown but both most likely ejected according to PAF sources as well as civilian witnesses who saw two parachutes deploy, most likely landing on the Indian side. However, it is not known, which side they landed. If one is with Pakistan, then India is in a Catch-22 situation. If it asks for the pilot, then it has to admit that a Su-30MKI was shot down. If it doesn't, then the pilot remains in Pakistani custody to be revealed at the appropriate time.
> 
> The reason the PAF may not officially own up to the Su-30MKI downing (at least in the foreseeable future) is probably two-fold:
> 
> 1. The Su-30MKI was probably shot down by an F-16 (saving grace for India) using an AIM-120 AMRAAM and PAF doesn't want to annoy the Americans. I believe the IAF salvaged the AIM-120 pieces from the wreckage of the downed Su-30MKI.
> 
> 2. It doesn't want to annoy the Russians because the Russians will be embarrassed if a Russian-made fighter with Russian missiles was shot down by either a JF-17 or F-16. Pakistan needs Russian support in many areas, least of all for the JF-17's RD-93 engines.
> 
> I don't believe that the IAF can cover up a Su-30MKI loss for too long. Sooner or later the story will come out.



The most sensible and likely post on this thread.


----------



## Wrath

AfrazulMandal said:


> Why are you changing the story so many times?
> 
> How many MiGs were downed?


1 mig . 1 Su-30 MKI


----------



## Wrath

[--Leo--] said:


> where is he now? i wonder he may be flying F-16


4 JF-17 thunders were used. No F-16s

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## Wrath

AfrazulMandal said:


> Someone else was named earlier.
> 
> Did the Su pilot join PAF or will he be returned?


Died . Most likely he wasn't Indian .

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## AfrazulMandal

Fahad Bilal said:


> Died . Most likely he wasn't Indian .


But Pakistan never claimed a lost aircraft.


----------



## Wrath

Vortex said:


> They were in the Mi 17 who crashed due to technical fault caused by a hit of a unknown flying object.
> 
> 
> 
> According to India off course.


Indians and their logics


----------



## Wrath

AfrazulMandal said:


> Who is the deceased PAF pilot?


No one is deceased yet . But if you are talking about past wars then a cursory Google search would help you.


----------



## Wrath

Vortex said:


> You expect a PAF pilot in the cockpit of an indian SU30 who took off from India?
> 
> Are you drunken ?


Most probably .


----------



## Wrath

Sabretooth said:


> The discussion was among TV anchor, Air Marshal (Rtd) Shahid Lateef, Maj Gen (Rtd) Ijaz Awan, and a Journalist Fakhar Zaman. These are veterans of their respective fields. I doubt they would engage in a discourse over unverified information.


Yes . I watched it too


----------



## Wrath

Mugen said:


> Can I have a link to that video please?


Search it up on Google . Programme name : power play , news channel : Ary news , date : 4 March , 2019 .


----------



## Vortex

Fahad Bilal said:


> Most probably .




No bro. In fact he should kill each of IAF poilet because each of them us a Pakistani Pilot


----------



## Wrath

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> When you have _Iman, Ihlas and Uhuvvet_ you can take on the entire _Ehl-i Dunya.._..


Well quoted sir .

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## LeGenD

aziqbal said:


> From now on the JF17 Thunder should be renamed the JF17 Flanker killer
> 
> The Flanker has been keeping whole of Europe and US at bay for decades
> 
> And the JF17 shot down the FLANKER
> 
> What a news
> 
> Next exercise with China we should pitch the JF17 against the Su35 of PLAAF
> 
> Although the Su35 will face the same fate
> 
> Bottom line don’t mess with the Thunder with Pakistani pilot
> 
> They take pride in their aircraft


Western aviation experts do not think highly of Russian junk to be honest. Western jets are superior to Russian jets by miles on average. Just look at what became of Iraqi Air Force back in 1991. Mostly Russian fanboys fail to see the obvious.

Russian 'nuclear might' is the correct choice of words.

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## Wrath

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The JF-17 must be wearing a F-16 disguise.
> Or is there another explanation?


Any source of explanation from your side. You gave one missile part , dis approved by your American dads. And we showed whole planes and captured pilots.  you delusional Indian mates

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## SecularNationalist

Trailer23 said:


> Hold on...
> Q1. If Abhinandhan was flying a Su-30, how did it end up back in India and him at the hands of the PAK Army? And where is his Rio?
> 
> Q2. We have the MiG-21, so where is its Pilot - if it isn't Abhinandhan?
> 
> I'm pretty sure Abhinandhan was flying the MiG-21, but it would have made it easy if the patch from his Squadron have been visible in any of the videos.
> 
> The mystery of the Su-30MKi has got a lot of people scratching their heads and conspiracy theorist working overtime with their version of what happened.
> 
> Although, i'm hoping that some of our guys have been bragging about something BIG (whale type) info in the not-so-distant future. Looking forward to it.


Patches are deliberately removed in the war scenarios.Remember when in captivity abhinandan was asked what jet he was flying he replied "i am not supposed to tell you that major"
It was quite a possibility that the pilots got shot down on one side of the border but landed their parachutes on another side of the border.

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## Shahzaz ud din



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## Akasa

Windjammer said:


> *You can't describe sunrise to a blind person . Period.*



Forget a blind person, show the sunrise to a seeing person first!


----------



## Thorough Pro

We only shot it down, it was modi who Shit it down



Srinivas said:


> No Sukhoi debris and how can PAF claim it shit down su 30 MKI?

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## Shameel

DG ISPR Maj. Gen. Asim Ghafoor in his press conference on the morning of 27 Feb 2019 alluded to two pilots in Pak custody, one of whom he said was ok, the other one injured and in CMH.

A couple of days later, he clarified that there was only one pilot in Pak custody. I don't think the earlier statement was a mistake. You can't make such a mistake at such a high level.

Could the second injured pilot in CMH turn out to be non-Indian? An Israeli pilot flying back seat on the Su-30MKI? That would give DG ISPR sufficient cause to change his statement since this is not something Pakistan may want to disclose at this moment. Let the Indians, Israelis, and Americans ask for the pilot, and negotiate a quid pro quo.


----------



## Secret Service

Shameel said:


> DG ISPR Maj. Gen. Asim Ghafoor in his press conference on the morning of 27 Feb 2019 alluded to two pilots in Pak custody, one of whom he said was ok, the other one injured and in CMH.
> 
> A couple of days later, he clarified that there was only one pilot in Pak custody. I don't think the earlier statement was a mistake. You can't make such a mistake at such a high level.
> 
> Could the second injured pilot in CMH turn out to be non-Indian? An Israeli pilot flying back seat on the Su-30MKI?



yes there was change of statements but question is even if he is died why we are not showing his identity. i dont think he was israeli or something.


----------



## Shameel

secretservice said:


> yes there was change of statements but question is even if he is died why we are not showing his identity. i dont think he was israeli or something.



Had he been Indian and died of injuries suffered during ejection, there is no reason why Pakistan would not disclose that fact. We did that with Sqn. Ldr. Ajay Ahuja https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajay_Ahuja in 1999 during the Kargil War.

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## Falcon26

“One clarification: Bilawal paid tribute to Hassan Siddiqui as he's absolutely a national hero," Qureshi said. "But I would like to clarify that two Indian planes were shot down. The other one was shot down by Wg Cdr Nauman Ali Khan," he added, asking that the second pilot also be given due credit.”

https://www.dawn.com/news/1467991/q...tary-leaders-to-offer-input-on-foreign-policy


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## Indus Pakistan

Falcon26 said:


> Wg Cdr Nauman Ali Khan


Why has this pilot and his 'kill' not been given publicity?

@Windjammer


----------



## Falcon26

Indus Pakistan said:


> Why has this pilot and his 'kill' not been given publicity?
> 
> @Windjammer


Deescalation move to give the battered Indians a face saving exit. Pakistan is yet to take credit for the downed Mi-17 helicopter even though all evidence points to PAF taking out that helicopter.

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## Indus Pakistan

Falcon26 said:


> Deescalation move to give the battered Indians a face saving exit. Pakistan is yet to take credit for the downed Mi-17 helicopter even though all evidence points to PAF taking out that helicopter.


That did occur to me. On the Pakistani side there is every reason to de-escalate. We don't not want a nuke war and must do everything to prevent that. If India had not been given a 'face saving exit' in the form of the captured pilot this might have escalated to near or above nuclear threshold. I don't think any sane person wants that.

I guess the best possible outcome has been achieved. Ganga India got b*tch slapped and by returning the pilot Pakistan came across as a responsible, honourable nuclear state. And that has been noted by international media.

_Ps. May I request Pak members to please not unneccassrily bring in Israel into this. I know many have this itch to add Israel to the huge sized enemy we have on the east but think. Our hands have enough with 1.4 bollion Gangoo's. Must we add Israeli's to that list? And Israeli's are not known for being shy or coy. When they choose a enemy they tend to go for them hard and part of the package they send after you is USA. The day USA, Europe sanction Pakistan like Iran and you get Israeli's F-15 Eagles or even a squadron of F-22 Raptors flying along the LOC or Radclife Line looking down at Lahore you will know. But until then give it a break please._

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## Yankee-stani

Indus Pakistan said:


> That did occur to me. On the Pakistani side there is every reason to de-escalate. We don't not want a nuke war and must do everything to prevent that. If India had not been given a 'face saving exit' in the form of the captured pilot this might have escalated to near or above nuclear threshold. I don't think any sane person wants that.
> 
> I guess the best possible outcome has been achieved. Ganga India got b*tch slapped and by returning the pilot Pakistan came across as a responsible, honourable nuclear state. And that has been noted by international media.
> 
> _Ps. May I request Pak members to please not unneccassrily bring in Israel into this. I know many have this itch to add Israel to the huge sized enemy we have on the east but think. Our hands have enough with 1.4 bollion Gangoo's. Must we add Israeli's to that list? And Israeli's are not known for being shy or coy. When they choose a enemy they tend to go for them hard and part of the package they send after you is USA. The day USA, Europe sanction Pakistan like Iran and you get Israeli's F-15 Eagles or even a squadron of F-22 Raptors flying along the LOC or Radclife Line looking down at Lahore you will know. But until then give it a break please._



We gave the Gangoo what our ancestors did to these filthy mongrels but Gangoo has two cards its economy and population I hate the Gangoo more than any other people I think they are worse than ((Koshers)) at least Koshers dont act like big shots and do things on the sly Gangoos are show off chors and think they are big to the chest thumpers bitching about IK moves I say be patient we need our economy to grow and focus on getting quality of life improve so Gangoo can get into the "middle income trap" so they will be filled with debt and the region hating them we need to have sabr cards in the future are in our stack we just need to wait as for Israel and Mid-East its true they are in Gangoo but that threat is for later we need to strike gangoo where it hurts the economy and Yankee bastards might help that they took MFN status from them we need to restore ties with them export the crap out of them just the Viets are doing now

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Indus Pakistan said:


> That did occur to me. On the Pakistani side there is every reason to de-escalate. We don't not want a nuke war and must do everything to prevent that. If India had not been given a 'face saving exit' in the form of the captured pilot this might have escalated to near or above nuclear threshold. I don't think any sane person wants that.
> 
> I guess the best possible outcome has been achieved. Ganga India got b*tch slapped and by returning the pilot Pakistan came across as a responsible, honourable nuclear state. And that has been noted by international media.
> 
> _Ps. May I request Pak members to please not unneccassrily bring in Israel into this. I know many have this itch to add Israel to the huge sized enemy we have on the east but think. Our hands have enough with 1.4 bollion Gangoo's. Must we add Israeli's to that list? And Israeli's are not known for being shy or coy. When they choose a enemy they tend to go for them hard and part of the package they send after you is USA. The day USA, Europe sanction Pakistan like Iran and you get Israeli's F-15 Eagles or even a squadron of F-22 Raptors flying along the LOC or Radclife Line looking down at Lahore you will know. But until then give it a break please._






Israel is NOT our enemy. Our ONLY enemy is india. That's it.

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## Yankee-stani

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Israel is NOT our enemy. Our ONLY enemy is india. That's it.



Israel is a different enemy for another time our main enemy is Gangoostan we need to strike them out of Afghanistan ASAP and its mashallah happening our boys the Taliban are kicking the ANA asses in Helmand and our gangasta Railway Minsister Sheikh Rasheed are giving the lay way Mullahs in Tehran a strong message he legit should be picked as President

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## Indus Pakistan

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Israel is NOT our enemy. Our ONLY enemy is india. That's it.


India is our only enemy. These are the facts -


Every war we had so far has been with India
Right now half a million Gangoo soldiers are raping, killing our brothers/sister across the LOC in Occupied Kashmir
At every turn it is India that tries to trip Pakistan.
So the question is simple. Do we *focus* on our enemy India? Or we *diffuse *our effort across by spreading ourselves thin on many enemies. Those who keep wanting Pakistan to aim at Iran, Israel etc are helping India by* distracting* our attention away from India. We need to be focused on one enemy. India. As it is even this enemy is nearly 7 times more populous. We have our hands full.

The day we ripp Gangoos apart fair enough go find new enemies ~ Israel? Iran? But for now aim the cross hairs on 1.4 billion Gangoo India.

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## Imran Khan

su-30 is just a claim i cant say until now we shot down 2nd plane no matter whom said it

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## Yankee-stani

Indus Pakistan said:


> India is our only enemy. These are the facts -
> 
> 
> Every war we had so far has been with India
> Right now half a million Gangoo soldiers are raping, killing our brothers/sister across the LOC in Occupied Kashmir
> At every turn it is India that tries to trip Pakistan.
> So the question is simple. Do we *focus* on our enemy India? Or we *diffuse *our effort across by spreading ourselves thin on many enemies. Those who keep wanting Pakistan to aim at Iran, Israel etc are helping India by* distracting* our attention away from India. We need to be focused on one enemy. India. As it is even this enemy is nearly 7 times more populous. We have our hands full.
> 
> The day we ripp Gangoos apart fair enough go find new enemies ~ Israel? Iran? But for now aim the cross hairs on 1.4 billion Gangoo India.



You know what I was just reading the other day about the Sino-Viet war recently and this month marks the 40th year of the war and the Viets like two decades was poor SouthEast Asian s,,,,thole now its the fastest growing economy in ASEAN and Asia, I mean the Viets hate Chinese a lot more they are actually the same race same people but they did not want to be under their thumb sort of so they focused on getting investments from all over keep mouth quiet for some time and voila we hear about this random country we can do the same if IK can keep the enemy at bay let them focus on missadventures unlike the Chinese Gangoos go on more misadventures eg.Sri Lankan wars of the 1980s and early 90s, in the Islamic world I can give example of Iraq-Iran, Iraq in the 80s had advanced fighter jets the weapons and oil money Iran was sanctioned and had low grade weapons and fighter jets war ends Iraq gets into misadventures in Kuwait waited till Saddam got f..cked by Yankee in 03 then backs Shia groups to take over now a decade later Iraq is in Iranian hands same thing will happen to Saudi with Qatar lol @Indus Pakistan


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## Falcon26

Indus Pakistan said:


> That did occur to me. On the Pakistani side there is every reason to de-escalate. We don't not want a nuke war and must do everything to prevent that. If India had not been given a 'face saving exit' in the form of the captured pilot this might have escalated to near or above nuclear threshold. I don't think any sane person wants that.
> 
> I guess the best possible outcome has been achieved. Ganga India got b*tch slapped and by returning the pilot Pakistan came across as a responsible, honourable nuclear state. And that has been noted by international media.
> 
> _Ps. May I request Pak members to please not unneccassrily bring in Israel into this. I know many have this itch to add Israel to the huge sized enemy we have on the east but think. Our hands have enough with 1.4 bollion Gangoo's. Must we add Israeli's to that list? And Israeli's are not known for being shy or coy. When they choose a enemy they tend to go for them hard and part of the package they send after you is USA. The day USA, Europe sanction Pakistan like Iran and you get Israeli's F-15 Eagles or even a squadron of F-22 Raptors flying along the LOC or Radclife Line looking down at Lahore you will know. But until then give it a break please._



The Indians overestimated their military capability and criminally underestimated Pakistan’s resolve and capacity to protect itself. The end result was a bruised India with a tarnished international image. Pakistan won at every level from military to diplomacy and from narrative to politics. Modi’s deseperate admission that the absence of Rafael jets ensured Pakistani victory hides the fact that this was a war India chose and which it attempted to dictate the terms. Both initiatives were wrestled away from them in less than 24 hours. Though Indians are now trying to say that India was successful in breaching Pakistan’s airspace, the fact of the matter is that they were intercepted and chased away without accomplishing their mission. On the other hand, PAF made a mockery of India’s overadvertised collection of Israeli and Russian air defense systems and successfully went inside India and carried out warning air raids. The shooting of the two planes and the helicopter was just the icing. IAF 0- PAF 3

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## Avicenna

Falcon26 said:


> The Indians overestimated their military capability and criminally underestimated Pakistan’s resolve and capacity to protect itself. The end result was a bruised India with a tarnished international image. Pakistan won at every level from military to diplomacy and from narrative to politics. Modi’s deseperate admission that the absence of Rafael jets ensured Pakistani victory hides the fact that this was a war India chose and which it attempted to dictate the terms. Both initiatives were wrestled away from them in less than 24 hours. Though Indians are now trying to say that India was successful in breaching Pakistan’s airspace, the fact of the matter is that they were intercepted and chased away without accomplishing their mission. On the other hand, PAF made a mockery of India’s overadvertised collection of Israeli and Russian air defense systems and successfully went inside India and carried out warning air raids. The shooting of the two planes and the helicopter was just the icing. IAF 0- PAF 3




The details we really don't know or at least can't confirm.

But grossly speaking, from the happenings on the Indian side with Modi and his Rafale statement, IAF Western command guy "retiring" and our boy Abhi kinda disappearing in addition to congratulatory statements on the Pakistani side indicate a MASSIVE win for Pakistan.

Also Modi is being exposed for what he is finally. At least hopefully to international observers.

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## Falcon26

Avicenna said:


> The details we really don't know or at least can't confirm.
> 
> But grossly speaking, from the happenings on the Indian side with Modi and his Rafale statement, IAF Western command guy "retiring" and our boy Abhi kinda disappearing in addition to congratulatory statements on the Pakistani side indicate a MASSIVE win for Pakistan.
> 
> Also Modi is being exposed for what he is finally. At least hopefully to international observers.



What details don’t you know?

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## Avicenna

Falcon26 said:


> What details don’t you know?



Can't confirm or deny F-16 downing or second IAF downing.

We don't know ultimately what types were also used. Thunder or F-16.

Both sides have made claims.

So for right now all we know for sure is IAF Bison downed. The resulting pilot saga.

And an AMRAAM piece was found by India.

Also the Mi-17 loss. Who knows what happened there? (i.e. friendly fire, technical malfunction)

(I'm limiting this to PAF v IAF arena only)


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## Falcon26

Avicenna said:


> Can't confirm or deny F-16 downing or second IAF downing.
> 
> We don't know ultimately what types were also used. Thunder or F-16.
> 
> Both sides have made claims.
> 
> So for right now all we know for sure is IAF Bison downed. The resulting pilot saga.
> 
> And an AMRAAM piece was found by India.
> 
> Also the Mi-17 loss. Who knows what happened there? (i.e. friendly fire, technical malfunction)
> 
> (I'm limiting this to PAF v IAF arena only)



Idea of F-16 being downed is a fictitious claim by the Indians. Has no basis in reality 

There are sufficient circumstantial evidence to prove the rest. In due time, all will be made bare

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## Avicenna

Falcon26 said:


> Idea of F-16 being downed is a fictitious claim by the Indians. Has no basis in reality
> 
> There are sufficient circumstantial evidence to prove the rest. In due time, all will be made bare



Yea I happen to agree with you.

But independent confirmation is the gold standard.

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## Muhammad Omar

NEVADA: PAF's Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan (circled) (then Squadron Leader) at Nellis Air Force Base (Nevada, USA) for the Exercise Red Flag 2016. Wg. Cdr. Nauman shot down an Indian Air Force (IAF) Su-30MKI on 27 February 2019 over Azad Kashmir. The Su-30 went down in Indian-Occupied Kashmir and the fate of its two pilots, who ejected, is unknown.

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## SecularNationalist

Shahzaz ud din said:


>


Shazaz ud din is the name of the pilot which indians claimed as the pilot of F16 which was shot down.Are you by any chance related to Air marshal(R)Waseem ud din?

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## Tps43

Indus Pakistan said:


> Why has this pilot and his 'kill' not been given publicity?
> 
> @Windjammer


That’s a well guarded secret


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## War Thunder

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> What's wrong with the Indian folks???? Won't they ever learn???? Elephants have always been destroyed by the fast charging horsemen flanking them along with sharpshooters!!!! The first and third wars of _Panipat _are enough to understand this simple fact....
> 
> Looks like the genes in the DNAs of Babur, EbdAli etc. are stuck in this side of the Indus river...



indians have always been overcome by foreign invaders, they never had what it takes to fight it out or rule themselves. What is today's Pakistan has always been the birth ground of people and empires that ruled over the rest of the Subcontinent, be it the Scythians, Persians, Afghans, Mughals, Gandhara, and what not. And the onlhy time they got to rule themsleves, they have become a confused deluded nation...

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## Raider 21

Muhammad Omar said:


> NEVADA: PAF's Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan (circled) (then Squadron Leader) at Nellis Air Force Base (Nevada, USA) for the Exercise Red Flag 2016. Wg. Cdr. Nauman shot down an Indian Air Force (IAF) Su-30MKI on 27 February 2019 over Azad Kashmir. The Su-30 went down in Indian-Occupied Kashmir and the fate of its two pilots, who ejected, is unknown.
> 
> View attachment 544734


That picture was in 2010.


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## Shahzaz ud din

*Heroes who shot down Indian fighter jets for the first time revealed by the government of Pakistan*
By AFP
Published: March 6, 2019
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Squadron Leader Hassan Siddiqui (L) and Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan (R). PHOTOS: SOCIAL MEDIA

ISLAMABAD: The government on Wednesday for the first time named the pilots who shot down two Indian warplanes last week, in a rare aerial engagement which had ignited fears of an all-out conflict with its nuclear rival.

The dogfight over the disputed Himalayan territory of Kashmir on February 27 ended with two Indian Air Force fighter jets downed and a pilot captured by the Pakistani security forces.

He was returned to India on Friday, crossing the Wagah border on foot.
The clash also fuelled fears that soaring tensions between the South Asian countries could erupt into their fourth war, with world powers rushing to urge restraint.

“Two Indian planes were shot down by Pakistan Air Force on February 27,” Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi told parliament Wednesday.

He named them as Squadron Leader Hassan Siddiqui and Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan, saying he wanted to “pay tribute” to them both.

Siddiqui had been widely named in unverified comments on social media.

Indian claims of Balakot airstrike debunked by international media

Tensions escalated dramatically between Pakistan and India on February 14 when a young man – a native of Indian occupied Kashmir (IoK) – rammed an explosives-laden car into an Indian military convoy, killing at least 44 soldiers.

India was quick to blame Pakistan for the suicide bombing. PM Imran offered every possible help in the investigation, but India turned down the offer and whipped up war hysteria.

On February 26, the Indian Air Force violated Pakistani airspace. The country’s top civil and military leadership declared the violation of airspace by Indian fighter jets “uncalled for aggression” and decided that the country would respond at a “time and place of its choosing”.

On February 27, Pakistan announced it had shot down two Indian fighter jets that attempted to violate its airspace and captured an Indian pilot.

On February 28, the Foreign Office said it received a dossier on the Pulwama attack from the Indian government. It added that the government was deliberating whether to treat Abhinandan as a prisoner of war (POW) or apply any international convention.

In the evening, PM Imran addressed a joint session of the parliament and announced that Pakistan would release the captured pilot as a goodwill gesture to de-escalate tensions.

On March 1, Pakistan ‘as a goodwill gesture’ handed over to Indian authorities the captured IAF Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman.


Read more: Hassan Siddiqui , IAF , india

*Foreign journalist doubts India's narrative on F-16 use*
By News Desk
Published: March 6, 2019
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PHOTO: PPI

Amidst an ongoing standoff between Pakistan and India, a New York Times journalist, Maria Abi-Habib, has pointed out that Islamabad may not have violated its F-16 sales agreement with Washington contrary to New Delhi’s claim even if the US fighter jets were involved in the downing of two Indian Air Force jets.

Tensions between the South Asian neighbours escalated following a suicide car bombing on February 14 that killed at least 40 Indian paramilitary police in Indian-occupied Kashmir.
New Delhi accused Islamabad of harbouring the Jaish-e Mohammad group behind the attack, which Islamabad denied, and Prime Minister Narendra Modi promised a strong response.

Pakistan said the Indian planes missed whatever they were aiming at, and that nobody died in the attack outside Balakot in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa (K-P).

On March 2, Pakistan handed back a captured Indian pilot Abhinandan whose MiG-21 jet was shot down by a Pakistan Air Force (PAF) during a clash over Kashmir on February 27 as two weeks of growing tensions between the two countries erupted into open hostilities.

Confirming the incident, New Delhi had complained the aircraft used by the PAF to ingress into Indian-occupied Kashmir (IoK) had included an F-16 which it claimed the Indian Air Force (IAF) had shot down. The PAF, however, had denied that F-16 jets were used India.

Indian insisted that Pakistan’s use of F-16 against India meant that Islamabad stood in violation of a sales agreement with the US, which allegedly restricts the fighter jets to be used for anti-terrorism sorties only.

But NYT’s South Asia correspondent in her tweets on Wednesday explained how Pakistan may not have committed any such violation even if it did use F-16s to shoot down Indian jets.

“The US says if Pakistan used an F-16 to shoot down an Indian MiG, it may not have violated sale agreement. India says deal limits Pakistan to use jets only for counter-terror operations,” Maria tweeted.
“The US officials are pushing back hard on India’s interpretation of their F-16 sale agreement with Pakistan. They say if India entered Pakistan airspace for a second day, and Pakistan used the jet defensively, the contract wasn’t violated.”
According to the journalist, “American officials at this moment say they are assessing if an F16 was used and in what manner.”
She said the US wants to strengthen its alliance with New Delhi is so important for Washington that it even offered to produce F-16 jets in India “as a sweetener”.

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## Slides

We need more proof on the Su-30 kill and who the second downed pilot was.


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## Thorough Pro

Mirage 2000 in Budgam



Srinivas said:


> No Sukhoi debris and how can PAF claim it shit down su 30 MKI?

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## Imran Khan

rollingrock said:


> I agree. But on the other hand, the Indians made a few claims...let's say five...and four out of five have been proven to be lies. So can I safely assume that the last one was also a lie? We can't always prove things, but we follow the track record.


yeah now forget this story man


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## Winchester

Imran Khan said:


> su-30 is just a claim i cant say until now we shot down 2nd plane no matter whom said it


 
Maybe Noman Ali Khan laid the trap by putting himself as a bait and enticing Abhinandan to cross on to our side. Hassan Siddiqui finished the job.

One thing is sure we didn't loose any aircraft. Another thing is also certain that Abhinandan crossed over because he felt he had a shot at a PAF jet. 

In this case job well done to the pilot who put himself on the line.

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## Imran Khan

Winchester said:


> Maybe Noman Ali Khan laid the trap by putting himself as a bait and enticing Abhinandan to cross on to our side. Hassan Siddiqui finished the job.
> 
> One thing is sure we didn't loose any aircraft. Another thing is also certain that Abhinandan crossed over because he felt he had a shot at a PAF jet.
> 
> In this case job well done to the pilot who put himself on the line.


yeah it could be sir


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## Salza

Official word is, we shot down their 2 Migs so Su-30 theory only came from PDF and leaked into Pakistani media from here only. Let's stick to 2 MiGs shooting down scenario only.

If Govt or some very reliable source/evidence later on points out to Su-30 shooting than we can all talk.

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## Beast

If Mi-17 wreckage cannot be keep from public. The wreckage of Su-30MKI shot down shall be able to found be it landed on India side or Pakistan side.

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## Trailer23

Yesterday, the Foreign Minister of Pakistan (_Mr. Shah Mehmood Qureshi_) mentioned the name of both Pilots in the Parliament and stressing that there were 02 Heros of the PAF.

He (also) specifically mentioned that 02 IAF jets were shot down.

Check Timecode: *1:30*

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## Imran Khan

Beast said:


> If Mi-17 wreckage cannot be keep from public. The wreckage of Su-30MKI shot down shall be able to found be it landed on India side or Pakistan side.


its huge plane there must be some local images or videos . that is why i did not trust this claim

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## Dazzler

Srinivas said:


> No Sukhoi debris and how can PAF claim it *shit* down su 30 MKI?



A mind full of shit, no wonder!

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## The Accountant

Salza said:


> Official word is, we shot down their 2 Migs so Su-30 theory only came from PDF and leaked into Pakistani media from here only. Let's stick to 2 MiGs shooting down scenario only.
> 
> If Govt or some very reliable source/evidence later on points out to Su-30 shooting than we can all talk.


I guess ex PAF Air Marshal Shahid Latif said it was su30 ... I don't think he have wrong intel


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## Riz

Imran Khan said:


> yeah it could be sir


The story starts from the 3 or 4 Amraams which fired by PAF on locked targets... Now indians are accepting that indeed PAF fired multiple Amraams on there jets from which they able to escape .... Eyy shatory ey


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## CriticalThought

Imran Khan said:


> its huge plane there must be some local images or videos . that is why i did not trust this claim



It is standard practice to bomb the wreckage of own high value assets in enemy territory to avoid evidence/secrets falling into enemy hands. India may have taken it one step further and bombed own wreckage on own territory. Certainly, the increased and highly intense firing along LOC in the aftermath of Abhinandan's release was the perfect opportunity for it.



The Accountant said:


> I guess ex PAF Air Marshal Shahid Latif said it was su30 ... I don't think he have wrong intel



What is an Israeli plane that is closest to twin engine Su-30? F-15. AMRAAMs. Make perfect sense. Do a thought experiment and substitute Israeli F-15 for Su-30. Everything will fall into place. @Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 @Rafi @Knuckles @GriffinsRule @Thorough Pro


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## Rafi

CriticalThought said:


> It is standard practice to bomb the wreckage of own high value assets in enemy territory to avoid evidence/secrets falling into enemy hands. India may have taken it one step further and bombed own wreckage on own territory. Certainly, the increased and highly intense firing along LOC in the aftermath of Abhinandan's release was the perfect opportunity for it.
> 
> 
> 
> What is an Israeli plane that is closest to twin engine Su-30? F-15. AMRAAMs. Make perfect sense. Do a thought experiment and substitute Israeli F-15 for Su-30. Everything will fall into place. @Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 @Rafi @Knuckles @GriffinsRule @Thorough Pro



The ISR would not have sent their people in harms way, they would have used SoW and let the injuns be cannon fodder.

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## CriticalThought

Rafi said:


> The ISR would have sent their people in harms way, they would have used SoW and let the injuns be cannon fodder.



Maybe SD-10 can reach further than what they considered a safe, stand-off distance.


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## Mughal-Prince

Salza said:


> Official word is, we shot down their 2 Migs so Su-30 theory only came from PDF and leaked into Pakistani media from here only. Let's stick to 2 MiGs shooting down scenario only.
> 
> If Govt or some very reliable source/evidence later on points out to Su-30 shooting than we can all talk.



ISPR official word is, "We shot down 2 air crafts" no variant been mentioned.


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## Rafi

CriticalThought said:


> Maybe SD-10 can reach further than what they considered a safe, stand-off distance.



"Maybe"

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## Windjammer

*The $ 50 Million Shooter.*

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## The Accountant

CriticalThought said:


> It is standard practice to bomb the wreckage of own high value assets in enemy territory to avoid evidence/secrets falling into enemy hands. India may have taken it one step further and bombed own wreckage on own territory. Certainly, the increased and highly intense firing along LOC in the aftermath of Abhinandan's release was the perfect opportunity for it.
> 
> 
> 
> What is an Israeli plane that is closest to twin engine Su-30? F-15. AMRAAMs. Make perfect sense. Do a thought experiment and substitute Israeli F-15 for Su-30. Everything will fall into place. @Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 @Rafi @Knuckles @GriffinsRule @Thorough Pro



Not possible it wasnt a high value strike mission ... it was an interception job ...


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## Secret Service

Windjammer said:


> *The $ 50 Million Shooter.*
> 
> View attachment 544839



i strongly believe that both indian aircrafts are shot down by our vipers. But point here is that we get the required result, the weapon and platform we used is not very important.


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## ZAC1

Shah mehmood qureshi FM told the parliment and paid tribute to those two who downed two jetfighters of iaf so no confusion of their identity...



Salza said:


> Official word is, we shot down their 2 Migs so Su-30 theory only came from PDF and leaked into Pakistani media from here only. Let's stick to 2 MiGs shooting down scenario only.
> 
> If Govt or some very reliable source/evidence later on points out to Su-30 shooting than we can all talk.


Ispr will show to media if abinandan speaks some bollywood masla...dnt worry 2 jets confirmed downed of iaf



secretservice said:


> i strongly believe that both indian aircrafts are shot down by our vipers. But point here is that we get the required result, the weapon and platform we used is not very important.


There is a video of locals which shows 2 jf-17 returning back after aircombat ...so jf-17 did all kills

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## Riz

Rafi said:


> "Maybe"


4 AMRAAMs wasted according to the indians..


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## Rafi

Riz said:


> 4 AMRAAMs wasted according to the indians..



BS, don't believe a word coming out of those muthafckaz.

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## GriffinsRule

CriticalThought said:


> It is standard practice to bomb the wreckage of own high value assets in enemy territory to avoid evidence/secrets falling into enemy hands. India may have taken it one step further and bombed own wreckage on own territory. Certainly, the increased and highly intense firing along LOC in the aftermath of Abhinandan's release was the perfect opportunity for it.
> 
> 
> 
> What is an Israeli plane that is closest to twin engine Su-30? F-15. AMRAAMs. Make perfect sense. Do a thought experiment and substitute Israeli F-15 for Su-30. Everything will fall into place. @Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 @Rafi @Knuckles @GriffinsRule @Thorough Pro



Chances of Israeli pilots or planes is next to nil.

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## Avicenna

GriffinsRule said:


> Chances of Israeli pilots or planes is next to nil.



This is true.

But the larger point stands.

It's foolish to think Israel doesn't think about the worlds only Muslim nuclear power.


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## The Accountant

No one is debating that except stupids and candle mafia (those who think that religion is individual act only) ...

Someone who has even 25% understanding of motives behind creation of Israel knows that Pakistan is the only country left capable of resisting and destroying Israel ...

- Iran either will switch the side or will keep on raising false alarms or will be attacked by US ...

-Iraq already destroyed

-Syria already destroyed

-Jordan already neutralized

-Libya, doesn't matter 

-Turkey, draws half of its power from NATO, therefore, it will be really difficult for them retaliate against Israel however, I guess after Israel Turkey is the only threat to Israel under leadership of Erdogan, however, I also believe that sooner or later turkey's leadership will be switched to pro israel 

-KSA and Egypt have already agreed behind close doors to recognize as soon as they can ...

-For Pakistan, they had the plan to recognize Israel by using our corrupt politicians specially Zardari however, Allah had different plans and they gave us Imran Khan ... Furthermore, the real hurdle between recognition of Israel is the general public of Pakistan and its establishment ...

For us Israel is now arming India and India Pakistan war is coming ... No matter what, this war is bound to happen ...




Avicenna said:


> This is true.
> 
> But the larger point stands.
> 
> It's foolish to think Israel doesn't think about the worlds only Muslim nuclear power.

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## pzkilo

Windjammer said:


> *The $ 50 Million Shooter.*
> 
> View attachment 544839


lol, Mr.hasan is hansome.


----------



## Windjammer



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## Raider 21

Windjammer said:


> *The $ 50 Million Shooter.*
> 
> View attachment 544839


More like 10 million bucks, still great job.


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## Zulfiqar

Windjammer said:


>




In the above 23rd march video, the chief is wearing a bandit patch. What is that?

Another officer was wearing the aggressor patch with the red star.


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## Windjammer

Knuckles said:


> More like 10 million bucks, still great job.


Since when has the SU-30 been selling for 10 Million.

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## Canuck786

Windjammer said:


> Since when has the SU-30 been selling for 10 Million.


If I had to guess I'll go with $37.5 million at least for the plane while maintenance etc. would be extra.


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## CriticalThought

Windjammer said:


> Since when has the SU-30 been selling for 10 Million.



Hold on a second. Hassan Siddiqui is known for the Mig-21 kill not SU-30 kill.

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## Windjammer

CriticalThought said:


> Hold on a second. Hassan Siddiqui is known for the Mig-21 kill not SU-30 kill.

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## Liquidmetal

I have not contributed much to the debate regarding the current Pak-Ind conflagration.

1) The flash point was the bombing of the Indian troops in Pulwama, though a legitimate target in a Goliath vs David mismatch of a fight for freedom, we all condemned the situation that caused the loss of life.

2) There is no evidence of any significant damage to the intended target which was a seminary teaching kids. Had the Indians managed to target the building and killed these children then it was an act of war.

3) Pakistan responded and surprised India and startled Bipin, never to be heard ever again!!

4) A MIG 21 was shot down. Evidence shown and present including intact moustache. 

5) India claimed a F16 shot down. No evidence, some conflation using a piece of an AMRAAM missile, but no evidence otherwise. 

6) PAF claimed a SU30 shot down. No evidence. 

PAF should not provide any evidence to either claims ie no F!6 shot down and SU30 was shot down. These things should remain secret until such a time when showing such evidence would not impact the secrecy of the current equipment, capabilities or planning.

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## Riz

CriticalThought said:


> Hahaha. You know what, I shan't press you. It will all come out in its own time.
> 
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@\ /
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ \O/
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ | <----------------- *CLIFF HANGER*
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> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> 
> *WILL YOU SPILL THE BEANS ALREADY???????????????????*


His victim was an elephant .


----------



## CriticalThought

Riz said:


> His victim was an elephant .



The Indians may make a counter-claim of animal welfare in the UN...

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## messiach

@Oscar @Horus @Windjammer @Quwa

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## Vapnope

messiach said:


> @Oscar @Horus @Windjammer @Quwa


Very interesting but senior members are not saying a thing about it.


----------



## Shameel

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Israel is NOT our enemy. Our ONLY enemy is india. That's it.



Israeli Air Force advisors and pilots are in India at this moment and, reportedly, have brought some equipment as well.



Indus Pakistan said:


> Why has this pilot and his 'kill' not been given publicity?
> 
> @Windjammer



Because Siddiqui's name got out early due to his own circle of relatives and friends. Neither DG ISPR nor PAF has named either pilot officially.


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Shameel said:


> Israeli Air Force advisors and pilots are in India at this moment and, reportedly, have brought some equipment as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Because Siddiqui's name got out early due to his own circle of relatives and friends. Neither DG ISPR not PAF has named either pilot officially.


_Sheyatin_ IN, _Sheyatin_ OUT....

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## OCguy

Liquidmetal said:


> I have not contributed much to the debate regarding the current Pak-Ind conflagration.
> 
> 1) The flash point was the bombing of the Indian troops in Pulwama, though a legitimate target in a Goliath vs David mismatch of a fight for freedom, we all condemned the situation that caused the loss of life.
> 
> 2) There is no evidence of any significant damage to the intended target which was a seminary teaching kids. Had the Indians managed to target the building and killed these children then it was an act of war.
> 
> 3) Pakistan responded and surprised India and startled Bipin, never to be heard ever again!!
> 
> 4) A MIG 21 was shot down. Evidence shown and present including intact moustache.
> 
> 5) India claimed a F16 shot down. No evidence, some conflation using a piece of an AMRAAM missile, but no evidence otherwise.
> 
> 6) PAF claimed a SU30 shot down. No evidence.
> 
> PAF should not provide any evidence to either claims ie no F!6 shot down and SU30 was shot down. These things should remain secret until such a time when showing such evidence would not impact the secrecy of the current equipment, capabilities or planning.



I think it is likely that a F-16 was used in the encounter, though not shot down as India still claims.

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## Indus Pakistan

Shameel said:


> Israeli Air Force advisors and pilots are in India at this moment and, reportedly, have brought some equipment as well.


Source?

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## Mentee

Indus Pakistan said:


> Source?


1967,1973 - - - - - -

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## Indus Pakistan

Mentee said:


> 1967,1973


We are in 2019. What source is there for the present claim.

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## Mentee

Indus Pakistan said:


> We are in 2019. What source is there for the present claim.



Supposedly it would be @Shameel


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## Indus Pakistan

Mentee said:


> Supposedly it would be @Shameel


lol


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Shameel said:


> Israeli Air Force advisors and pilots are in India at this moment and, reportedly, have brought some equipment as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Because Siddiqui's name got out early due to his own circle of relatives and friends. Neither DG ISPR nor PAF has named either pilot officially.





The Palestinians and other Arabs support and advocate india. Are they our enemy too?


----------



## Shahzaz ud din

*Why claims about the PAF pilot’s lynching don’t add up*







The report of a Pakistan Air Force (PAF) pilot being lynched to death by his own countrymen sounded straight out of a movie script. Turns out the report—based on a singular Facebook post—may have very well been a result of the Facebook post’s writer’s imagination.On March 2, a _Firstpost_ report by Praveen Swami stated that “Pakistan Air Force Wing Commander Shahzaz-ud-Din, the F-16 pilot shot down in a dogfight over the Nowshera sector, is reported to have been lynched by a mob who mistook him for an Indian airman”.

On March 1, a day before the _Firstpost_ report was published, a London-based lawyer, Khalid Umar, had postedthe exact same details of the purported killing of a PAF pilot on Facebook. The _Firstpost_ report cited Umar as a source stating that he [Umar] had received this information “privately, from individuals related to the F-16 pilot’s family”.
Like the _Firstpost_ report, Umar identified the PAF pilot as Shahzaz-ud-Din and stated that his father Waseem-ud-Din is an Air Marshal of the Pakistan Air Force. Comparing Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman and Shahzaz-ud-Din’s plight, the London-based lawyer also wrote: “Two sons of Air Marshals fought it out mid-air up in the skies...Wg Cdr Abhinandan (Ind) in MiG and now late Wg Cdr Shahzaz-ud-Din (Pak) in F-16. Both fell from the skies, one could not survive.”

Umar said Shahzaz-ud-Din, who had ejected in Pakistan-occupied Jammu and Kashmir, was “lynched (beaten mercilessly, nearly to death) by the mob who took him as a fallen Indian”. On his identification as “our own man”, the PAF pilot was taken to a hospital. He did not survive, Umar wrote: “Nothing can be more heartbreaking than the untimely termination of a young life. My heartfelt condolences to the family of Shahzaz.”

Fact or fiction: Khalid Umar’s U-turn

Apart from Swami’s report for _Firstpost_, other media publications also reported on Shahzaz-ud-Din’s death. They cited either Umar's post as a source or “media reports”. The same goes for social media posts that popped up on the pilot.

On March 2, _Newslaundry_ contacted Umar by telephone to verify his claims relating to the PAF pilot’s death. Umar claimed he had received information relating to the PAF pilot’s death “not from a single source but from multiple PAF sources”. He said, “My sources in PAF informed me that the F-16 was flown by Shahzaz-ud-Din. It was shot down by MiG 21 of the Indian Air Force in aerial combat.” He added that authorities would “never accept this” and that they had “even denied using F-16” to breach the Indian airspace.

Umar told _Newslaundry _that Shahzaz-ud-Din was one of three sons of Air Marshal Waseem-ud-Din, who had retired from the PAF. He claimed that apart from multiple PAF sources, this was also confirmed to him by Air Marshal Waseem-ud-Din’s family.

However, _Newslaundry_’s investigation proves these claims to be false. When we asked Umar about it, his responses were nothing short of a U-turn.







Here’s what our investigation revealed: Air Marshal Waseem-ud-Din has two sons, not three. Neither of them is in the PAF. When _Newslaundry _brought this up with Umar, he said it “doesn't matter” who was in the aircraft: “It doesn’t matter whether it was some Abbas or some Shahzaz. But someone definitely was on it.”

Umar also stated that in a military press conference held by Indian military officials, high-ranking representatives of the three armed services had said that an F-16 aircraft had been shot down. “They are saying a fact and definitely somebody must be on the aircraft and ejected out of it. It doesn't matter who was in the aircraft, an aircraft has been shot down and pilots have ejected out of it. You should find about them,” he told _Newslaundry_.

_Newslaundry_’s investigation

So, the single source for news reports on the PAF pilot’s death and background has been Umar’s post, which identified the pilot as “Shahzaz-ud-Din”. _Newslaundry_’s investigation shows that Air Marshal Waseem ud-Din has two sons named Waqar-ud-Din and Aleem-ud-Din. In this picture found on Facebook, Air Marshal Waseem-ud-Din stands with his two sons.







_The photo of the Air Marshal and his two sons._

According to their Facebook profiles, both sons live in the UK. Aleem-ud-Din studies at Royal Holloway, University of London. He previously worked with companies like Telenor—as CLM planning and design officer and pricing executive for four years, till 2018—and Starcom Worldwide in Pakistan. He did his Bachelor’s degree in economics from the National University of Sciences and Technology.







_A screenshot of Aleem-ud-Din's LinkedIn profile._

The Air Marshal’s other son, Waqar-ud-Din, lives in Warwickshire, according to documents accessed by _Newslaundry_. Since September 2015, he’s been working as a system engineer at Jaguar Land Rover in Gaydon in Warwickshire. Before joining Jaguar Land Rover, he worked with Tetra Pack in Lahore as a field service engineer and project engineer for more than three years.

Waqar-ud-Din graduated from Pakistan’s Ghulam Ishaq Khan Institute of Engineering Sciences and Technology. He did his Master’s degree in energy and power engineering from the University of Warwick. His job record shows that he was never in the Pakistan Air Force.







_A screenshot of Waqar-ud-Din's LinkedIn profile._

These details were confirmed by several sources as well. One of them is Taha Siddiqui, an award-winning exiled Pakistani journalist and founder of _SAFE newsrooms_, a digital platform documenting media censorship in South Asia. He told _Newslaundry_: “I have spoken to some people who are very close friends of Air Marshal Waseem-ud-Din’s family and they have informed me that both his sons are alive and live out of the country.”
Siddiqui said: “They told me that it's is a fake story."

Siddiqui, who has been critical of Pakistani Army’s media censorship in Pakistan, currently lives in Paris. He has been living in exile following Pakistani Army’s failed attempt to abduct him. He said, "I have been informed by two of my PAF sources that no one has been killed and both airplanes—F-16 and JF-17—were used. Inventory remains accounted for so it's unlikely they lost any planes or anyone was killed."

Siddiqui added that the Pakistani media is heavily controlled by the military. “The Pakistan military might feel if they say that someone from their side is killed, then they will lose the higher ground they are currently on. But as per the information provided by people close to the family and reliable sources in PAF, this seems to be a fake story.”

A family friend of Air Marshal Waseem-ud-Din also posted on social media that the Air Marshal has only two sons and they are not in the Pakistan Air Force. The Dubai-based family friend tagged the Air Marshal’s wife in the post. She wrote: "Noreen and Waseem-ud-Din have two sons none named Shahzaz or whatever. And MA they are alive and well.”







_The family friend's Facebook post.

Newslaundry_ tried contacting Waqar-ud-Din and Aleem-ud-Din through social media. This story will be updated if and when they respond.

A photograph has also been doing the rounds on social media of “Wing Commander Shahzaz-ud-Din”. _Newslaundry_found pictures of a joint air force training between China and Pakistan which took place in October 2015 at China’s Yinchuan air base. One of the photos shows Chinese and Pakistani Air Force pilots standing in a group photo, while another is captioned “Pakistani fighter pilot before Chinese Su-30”.

There’s no mention of Wing Commander Shahzaz-ud-Din, but the photo has been circulated on social media claiming to a picture of the “fallen” PAF pilot. Yet this photo is of Group Captain Agha Mehar, a pilot with the PAF. Mehar has approached several senior journalists in Pakistan pointing out Indian media’s misuse of his photo.







_The photo of Group Captain Agha Mehar misidentified as Shahzad-ud-Din.

Newslaundry _confirmed Mehar’s identity with Pakistani journalists. Salman Masood, editor of _The Nation_, an English daily in Islamabad, told _Newslaundry_: "According to my official sources, the picture of the pilot which is being circulated as the F-16 pilot is a picture of Group Captain Agha Mehar, who has never flown an F-16 in his career."

The same photograph is used in this blog, which details Shahzad-ud-Din’s “martyrdom” on February 27, using the same inaccuracies found in Khalid Umar’s Facebook post.





*Newslaundry | Sabki Dhulai*
Newslaundry.com is India's Independent News Media and Media Critique Platform.
www.newslaundry.com

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## SQ8

messiach said:


> @Oscar @Horus @Windjammer @Quwa


Im more interested in the location of the video as it would give a clearer picture of where those two pilots went.

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## messiach

Oscar said:


> Im more interested in the location of the video as it would give a clearer picture of where those two pilots went.


Just a random video by a villager. That height for the higher one cant be a wvr kill.

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## SQ8

messiach said:


> Just a random video by a villager. That height for the higher one cant be a wvr kill.


I cant tell if its just one aircraft down or two. 
I do see them talking about two pilots so perhaps two different aircraft were hit.


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## CriticalThought

Oscar said:


> Im more interested in the location of the video as it would give a clearer picture of where those two pilots went.



It is 10 A.M. somewhere along the LOC, when the sun is on the east. If you look at the bottom right, the sun glare is evident. The camera is pointing at the north westerly direction. If the video is shot from Pakistan, that would make it Pakistani territory except if the border is snaking along.

@messiach @Bilal Khan 777 @Knuckles @GriffinsRule @Hodor


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## graphican

There is a term called "determined lier" and he speaks lies not because he/she doesn't know the truth but he/she lies because he/she has decided to lie.

You have to lay such a habitual lier naked - but don't expect she (India) would stop doing what she is doing. In our faith, you cannot be a Muslim if you lie, in their faith, you have to lie until it is accepted as a truth. (hint: Chankiya).

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## OCguy

A F-16 was definitely involved. That AIM went to Pakistan, not Taiwan.

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## Slides

Oscar said:


> Im more interested in the location of the video as it would give a clearer picture of where those two pilots went.



https://www.bellingcat.com/resource...location-and-a-philosophers-stone-in-kashmir/


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## OCguy

Here is his profile on a F-16 forum

http://www.f-16.net/pilots-profile2652.html

Can be seen wearing 3,000hr patch






Red Flag at :51







Great resource for info by F-16 Enthusiasts



http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=55055&start=180


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## Raider 21

OCguy said:


> Here is his profile on a F-16 forum
> 
> http://www.f-16.net/pilots-profile2652.html
> 
> Can be seen wearing 3,000hr patch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Flag at :51
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great resource for info by F-16 Enthusiasts
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=55055&start=180


3000 hours in 10 years. That's a lot of flying....

That is a desert version of the 1000 or 2000 hour patch

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## messiach

Oscar said:


> I cant tell if its just one aircraft down or two.
> I do see them talking about two pilots so perhaps two different aircraft were hit.


There is a definite target no2 at greater altitude around 40-45k ft. That was the first hit.

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## Windjammer

Oscar said:


> I cant tell if its just one aircraft down or two.
> I do see them talking about two pilots so perhaps two different aircraft were hit.


Nothing concrete, apart fro the pilot, you will also have the canopy and aircraft debris floating down as well.
The object trailing smoke has to be part of the wreckage.


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## Shabi1

OCguy said:


> A F-16 was definitely involved. That AIM went to Pakistan, not Taiwan.



PAF engaged InAF three time the day before. F-16s have fired the AMRAAM but as per reports F-16s didnt make the kills.
Will have to wait few more days till Indian warmongers get tired as there is risk of pressure for payback, then will get details of the engagements.
Indians already started retracting claims and are accepting an own kill for the Mi-17.


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## OCguy

Shabi1 said:


> PAF engaged InAF three time the day before. F-16s have fired the AMRAAM but as per reports F-16s didnt make the kills.
> Will have to wait few more days till Indian warmongers get tired as there is risk of pressure for payback, then will get details of the engagements.
> Indians already started retracting claims and are accepting an own kill for the Mi-17.



The pilot named by PAF is an expert...in one aircraft. According to online video evidence, profile evidence, and Red Flag 2010 press releases.


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## CriticalThought

OCguy said:


> The pilot named by PAF is an expert...in one aircraft. According to online video evidence, profile evidence, and Red Flag 2010 press releases.



Do you have any source from which you acquired the information that F-16 made the kill? Or is this a conclusion you drew based on videos of Nauman Ali?


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## Shabi1

OCguy said:


> The pilot named by PAF is an expert...in one aircraft. According to online video evidence, profile evidence, and Red Flag 2010 press releases.



The suspected sqd which made the kills is 14th Squadron Tail Choppers. It was equipped with JF-17s in 2017, we know these pilots were serving in F-16 squadrons prior to 2016 but no information afterwards.

PAF moved alot of F-16 experts to JF-17s. No denying these guys are viper experts but alot of the videos and pictures are not recent so claiming they flew or didnt flew JF-17s can not be debated on their history or old videos.

Need to wait release of more official information.

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## OCguy

CriticalThought said:


> Do you have any source from which you acquired the information that F-16 made the kill? Or is this a conclusion you drew based on videos of Nauman Ali?



It's a top thread in this forum. Im passing the info along, experts much smarter than me are who found the evidence.


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## CriticalThought

OCguy said:


> It's a top thread in this forum. Im passing the info along, experts much smarter than me are who found the evidence.



Can you name these experts and the evidence they provided? Any links?


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## messiach

I hope ME, saudi & egyptians 'with their tarmac-toys' are watching.
This is not from some tom-dick-harry movie. I have recieved the confirmation today.



Windjammer said:


> Nothing concrete, apart fro the pilot, you will also have the canopy and aircraft debris floating down as well.
> The object trailing smoke has to be part of the wreckage.

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## BATMAN

messiach said:


> I hope ME, saudi & egyptians 'with their tarmac-toys' are watching.
> This is not from some tom-dick-harry movie. I have recieved the confirmation today.


Confirmation was in the mobile videos... surely 2 videos, each showing pairs of descending parachutes.


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## Windjammer

messiach said:


> I hope ME, saudi & egyptians 'with their tarmac-toys' are watching.
> This is not from some tom-dick-harry movie. I have recieved the confirmation today.


My interest was also drawn to the white parachute.


----------



## CriticalThought

messiach said:


> I hope ME, saudi & egyptians 'with their tarmac-toys' are watching.
> This is not from some tom-dick-harry movie. I have recieved the confirmation today.



Madam can you please elaborate what exactly the confirmation is about?

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## Bratva

Look closely at hassan siddiqi Patch on his right side of chest. This photo was allegedly taken right after he downed the MIG. Isn't this picture and insignia carries a very big Operational security risk ? Thank God his Insignia hasn't raised any questions so far

@Hodor @Oscar @Windjammer @messiach @HRK @Irfan Baloch @Tps43 @Mentee @Areesh @Knuckles

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## CriticalThought

Bratva said:


> View attachment 545272
> 
> 
> Look closely at hassan siddiqi Patch on his right side of chest. This photo was allegedly taken right after he downed the MIG. Isn't this picture and insignia carries a very big Operational security risk ? Thank God his Insignia hasn't raised any questions so far
> 
> @Hodor @Oscar @Windjammer @messiach @HRK @Irfan Baloch @Tps43 @Mentee @Areesh @Knuckles



You mean Viper drivers on scramble call, or on top secret missions, will be concentrating on the insignia on their chests?


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## Zulfiqar

Bratva said:


> View attachment 545272
> 
> 
> Look closely at hassan siddiqi Patch on his right side of chest. This photo was allegedly taken right after he downed the MIG. Isn't this picture and insignia carries a very big Operational security risk ? Thank God his Insignia hasn't raised any questions so far
> 
> @Hodor @Oscar @Windjammer @messiach @HRK @Irfan Baloch @Tps43 @Mentee @Areesh @Knuckles




That is an inverted picture. Most probably it is his name tag with an F-16 on it.

Most probably an older photo.

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## Bratva

CriticalThought said:


> You mean Viper drivers on scramble call, or on top secret missions, will be concentrating on the insignia on their chests?



He is allegedly a JF-17 Driver. JF-17 pilots will not wear F-16 patches when flying JF-17.


----------



## Windjammer

Bratva said:


> View attachment 545272
> 
> 
> Look closely at hassan siddiqi Patch on his right side of chest. This photo was allegedly taken right after he downed the MIG. Isn't this picture and insignia carries a very big Operational security risk ? Thank God his Insignia hasn't raised any questions so far
> 
> @Hodor @Oscar @Windjammer @messiach @HRK @Irfan Baloch @Tps43 @Mentee @Areesh @Knuckles


Received this on the very day it happened.


----------



## CriticalThought

Bratva said:


> He is allegedly a JF-17 Driver. JF-17 pilots will not wear F-16 patches when flying JF-17.



Checkout windjammer's posts. Hassan Siddiqui is a Viper driver.


----------



## HRK

Bratva said:


> View attachment 545272
> 
> 
> Look closely at hassan siddiqi Patch on his right side of chest. This photo was allegedly taken right after he downed the MIG. Isn't this picture and insignia carries a very big Operational security risk ? Thank God his Insignia hasn't raised any questions so far
> 
> @Hodor @Oscar @Windjammer @messiach @HRK @Irfan Baloch @Tps43 @Mentee @Areesh @Knuckles


must be an old photo ....


----------



## Tps43

Bratva said:


> View attachment 545272
> 
> 
> Look closely at hassan siddiqi Patch on his right side of chest. This photo was allegedly taken right after he downed the MIG. Isn't this picture and insignia carries a very big Operational security risk ? Thank God his Insignia hasn't raised any questions so far
> 
> @Hodor @Oscar @Windjammer @messiach @HRK @Irfan Baloch @Tps43 @Mentee @Areesh @Knuckles


Actually thats insigna of viper if u look closely

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## The Eagle

messiach said:


> Just a random video by a villager. That height for the higher one cant be a wvr kill.



Yes and three different videos from three random sources at three different locations; are being noticed in respect of same parachutes (Links saved). By evaluating them, it really helps to make a close guess.

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## Tps43

Bratva said:


> He is allegedly a JF-17 Driver. JF-17 pilots will not wear F-16 patches when flying JF-17.


He has many hours on viper like 70% of his career

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## Bratva

Zulfiqar said:


> That is an inverted picture. Most probably it is his name tag with an F-16 on it.
> 
> Most probably an older photo.





Windjammer said:


> Received this on the very day it happened.





CriticalThought said:


> Checkout windjammer's posts. Hassan Siddiqui is a Viper driver.




What I'm trying to say is, He is a JF-17 driver. Not a F-16 Driver. He downed the mig in JF-17 as per the official narrative. His patch is saying otherwise. It can create doubts whether which plan Hassan Siddiqi was actually flying on that day.



Tps43 said:


> He has many hours on viper like 70% of his career



So Does Wing Commander Ronald Felix or Wing Commander Yasir Mudasser. Who I believe is OC of Tail choppers ? Both of these pilots transitioned from F-16 to JF-17 when they were squadron leaders. Yet they always wore JF-17 patches



HRK said:


> must be an old photo ....



Allegedly it was taken on the same day.

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## Windjammer

Bratva said:


> What I'm trying to say is, He is a JF-17 driver. Not a F-16 Driver. He downed the mig in JF-17 as per the official narrative. His patch is saying otherwise. It can create doubts whether which plan Hassan Siddiqi was actually flying on that day.
> 
> 
> 
> So Does Wing Commander Ronald Felix or Wing Commander Yasir Mudasser. Who I believe is OC of Tail choppers ? Both of these pilots transitioned from F-16 to JF-17 when they were squadron leaders. Yet they always wore JF-17 patches


We assume he downed the MiG.

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## OCguy

This is literally the only forum still pretending the 2nd pilot wasn't in a F-16. I'm assuming what the reasons are and I guess it makes sense.


----------



## untitled

Windjammer said:


> We assume he downed the MiG.


OK not sure about how reliable this is

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100724900086595599


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## CriticalThought

The Eagle said:


> Yes and three different videos from three random sources at three different locations; are being noticed in respect of same parachutes (Links saved). By evaluating them, it really helps to make a close guess.



Can you please share all three videos in a single post? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Khafee

While you guys debate who was flying what, my contact give me info that is irrefutable. Hassan Sid is a bihari

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## CriticalThought

Windjammer said:


> We assume he downed the MiG.



But is it a valid assumption to say he was flying JF-17 when he shot down whatever plane he did?


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## Tps43

Bratva said:


> What I'm trying to say is, He is a JF-17 driver. Not a F-16 Driver. He downed the mig in JF-17 as per the official narrative. His patch is saying otherwise. It can create doubts whether which plan Hassan Siddiqi was actually flying on that day.


@HRK @Gryphon 



Khafee said:


> While you guys debate who was flying what, my contact give me info that is irrefutable. Hassan Sid is a bihari


What did ur contact said which jet he was flying?

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## Windjammer

Khafee said:


> While you guys debate who was flying what, my contact give me info that is irrefutable. Hassan Sid is a bihari


And even given the title as son of M M Alam.

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## Tps43

member.exe said:


> OK not sure about how reliable this is
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100724900086595599


@Khafee yeh dekh lai Iski bhi story hai hahahaha

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## Khafee

Tps43 said:


> What did ur contact said which jet he was flying?


Single engine

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## Tps43

Khafee said:


> Single engine


T37?

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## untitled

Khafee said:


> Single engine


Two stroke?

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## Khafee

Tps43 said:


> @Khafee yeh dekh lai Iski bhi story hai hahahaha


A true WTF moment - mig 29!!!

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## CriticalThought

Khafee said:


> Single engine



RD-93 or PW F-100?

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## Mentee

Tps43 said:


> T37?



You dawwwg

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## Khafee

Tps43 said:


> T37?


Ab yeah nahi kehna, khirki kholkay pathar mara tha

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## Tps43

Khafee said:


> A true WTF moment - mig 29!!!


Aur esse hee yeh clip hai 



Khafee said:


> Ab yeah nahi kehna, khirki kholkay pathar mara tha


Cricket wali hard ball mari thi tail par hahaha

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## Tps43

Mentee said:


> You dawwwg


Can be super mashak as well



member.exe said:


> Rab da karam!
> Was it a fulcrum?


Sukhoi tha hahah

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## Khafee

CriticalThought said:


> RD-93 or PW F-100?


Single seater

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## Mentee

Tps43 said:


> Can be super mashak as well
> 
> 
> Sukhoi tha hahah



Sukhhi from rang dy basanti

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## CriticalThought

Khafee said:


> Single seater



American made or Chinese made?

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## Khafee

member.exe said:


> Rab da karam!
> Was it a fulcrum?


Uptill now, I haven't heard of any fulcrums being taken out.

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## Mentee

Khafee said:


> Single seater



What kinda diet does it take. Pan cake or caviar - - - - - - -

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## Tps43

Mentee said:


> Sukhhi from rang dy basanti


Sukkhi from jati umrah



Khafee said:


> Single seater


Oc of certain sqn

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## untitled

Khafee said:


> Uptill now, I haven't heard of any fulcrums being taken out.


This tweet I posted is actually a source for the second kill on PAF's wiki page

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## Khafee

Mentee said:


> What kinda diet does it take. Pan cake or caviar - - - - - - -


Paratha, especially aloo walay

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## Tps43

Khafee said:


> Paratha, especially aloo walay


U need mooli wala

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## Mentee

Tps43 said:


> Sukkhi from jati umrah
> 
> 
> Oc of certain sqn


Btw what was the question? It all whooshed over my head

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## Khafee

member.exe said:


> This tweet I posted is actually a source for the second kill on PAF's wiki page


Thank You for posting the tweet. The comment wasnt for you, but the tweeter.

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## Khafee

Tps43 said:


> U need mooli wala


I need beef, feeling weak.

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## Tps43

Khafee said:


> I need beef, feeling weak.


Meat beef or some other beef 



Mentee said:


> Chavlay na Mar shaikh phr dor Jay ga


Waqai itni muskilo se wapsi mari hai sheikho sab na btw I should tag @I.R.A as well

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## untitled

Khafee said:


> Thank You for posting the tweet. The comment wasnt for you, but the tweeter.


No problem 
I just wanted to see the reaction.

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## Khafee

Tps43 said:


> Meat beef or some other beef


COW BEEF

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## SQ8

Bratva said:


> He is allegedly a JF-17 Driver. JF-17 pilots will not wear F-16 patches when flying JF-17.


They do, you can wear a patch from your previous assignments and so on.

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## SQ8

OCguy said:


> A F-16 was definitely involved. That AIM went to Pakistan, not Taiwan.


Possible stockd were moved around, but also confirmed that no F-16 went across the border; hence the claim is valid that no F-16 was involved in the offensive.

A F-16 shooting down a jet while on CAP is completely within the statement parameters. A F-16 and JF-17 claiming a joint kill is also within parameters.

Eventually when this dies down and the Indian elections are done with, the PAF may quietly release the details to aviation magazines



messiach said:


> There is a definite target no2 at greater altitude around 40-45k ft. That was the first hit.


If that is the altitude, then it would be a BVR wall ship that high and not a short legged interceptor like the Mig-21.

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## OCguy

Oscar said:


> Possible stockd were moved around, but also confirmed that no F-16 went across the border; hence the claim is valid that no F-16 was involved in the offensive.
> 
> A F-16 shooting down a jet while on CAP is completely within the statement parameters. A F-16 and JF-17 claiming a joint kill is also within parameters.
> 
> Eventually when this dies down and the Indian elections are done with, the PAF may quietly release the details to aviation magazines



Never questioned the legality of use.

Western aviation enthusiasts already know the truth, it's not difficult to figure out. The suppression is for a domestic audience, not international.


----------



## SQ8

OCguy said:


> Never questioned the legality of use.
> 
> Western aviation enthusiasts already know the truth, it's not difficult to figure out. The suppression is for a domestic audience, not international.


It may be for international as well. Both the US state department and Pakistan are wary of Indian lobbies pushing Congress on the use of any US weapons against India which is why this hush up is being done.

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## aziqbal

Shooting down Indian aircraft is great

But it’s even better when it’s shot down by JF17 

Even India still claims F16 shot it down 

Because they can’t face the reality

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## OCguy

Oscar said:


> It may be for international as well. Both the US state department and Pakistan are wary of Indian lobbies pushing Congress on the use of any US weapons against India which is why this hush up is being done.



Which makes sense, except it isn't a secret. Pakistan looks like a saint in this one, India looks belligerent.

I guess I'm used to conversing with your level of intellect, so the swarm of posters posting dishonest information has been frustrating. 

Cheers.

Edit: .Example, I know the poster above me Is smarter than that. Oh well.

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## The Eagle

Windjammer said:


> And even given the title as son of M M Alam.



A Karachite & a School, I was there few days ago, celebrated him being a student.

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## zulu

Khafee said:


> While you guys debate who was flying what, my contact give me info that is irrefutable. Hassan Sid is a bihari


MM Alam was also from Bihar(his parents moved to Calcutta ) but who cares both are PAF and whole nation heroes and don't forget WC Noman Ali Khan with time unki achievement bhi inshaallah pata lag jaye gi

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## alee92nawaz

Could be the F-16 pilots


Vapnope said:


> Very interesting but senior members are not saying a thing about it.


----------



## Zulfiqar

Who is this guy in the video.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1104383636684660736

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## The Eagle

Vapnope said:


> Very interesting but senior members are not saying a thing about it.


"I am not suppose to tell you that"



Zulfiqar said:


> Who is this guy in the video.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1104383636684660736



Yesterday crash in Rajisthan. @Windjammer ....

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## Irfan Baloch

Bratva said:


> View attachment 545272
> 
> 
> Look closely at hassan siddiqi Patch on his right side of chest. This photo was allegedly taken right after he downed the MIG. Isn't this picture and insignia carries a very big Operational security risk ? Thank God his Insignia hasn't raised any questions so far
> 
> @Hodor @Oscar @Windjammer @messiach @HRK @Irfan Baloch @Tps43 @Mentee @Areesh @Knuckles


so what if they wore a uniform of a wrong patch? they serve in differnt squadrons with different jets and that doesnt prevent them from flying one type if they are carrying a Mirage or F-16 insignia 
we own the jets and we paid hard cash for them
whoever has issue with that should shut the hell up and be ashamed that a smaller weaker force with fraction of budget took on and came on top of a stronger airforce.

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## SQ8

OCguy said:


> Which makes sense, except it isn't a secret. Pakistan looks like a saint in this one, India looks belligerent.
> 
> I guess I'm used to conversing with your level of intellect, so the swarm of posters posting dishonest information has been frustrating.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Edit: .Example, I know the poster above me Is smarter than that. Oh well.


For anyone familiar with lobbying in congress; optics are a matter of campaign contributions.

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## OCguy

It looks just as foolish to keep dancing around the obvious, as it does when the other side claims they scored a kill.


----------



## alee92nawaz

Khafee said:


> While you guys debate who was flying what, my contact give me info that is irrefutable. Hassan Sid is a bihari


He shot sukhoi or mig? Or the F-16


----------



## SQ8

alee92nawaz said:


> He shot sukhoi or mig? Or the F-16


What F-16 was shot?

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## Zulfiqar

The Eagle said:


> "I am not suppose to tell you that"
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday crash in Rajisthan. @Windjammer ....



Does not look like rajisthan.

The helmet looks different than WC abhi's considering yesterday's crash was a mig as well.

Can someone identify the rank as I always had difficulty identifying air force rank.


----------



## volatile

Looking at the events both Air Forces played very risky game . PAF as per events bait the IAF and IAF went for kill (Making proud and Jai Hind) with loaded Su,Migs . While PAF was waiting /sneaked upon them ,I mean in the age of BVR it was literally seconds (No dog fight occurs with Attackers) the so called dog fight was between the bait plane and Indian Air force Surmas . IAF is embarrassed to admit that Flanker is down by nimble planes . The odds will always be not our side ,we need to step our game one more step

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## Khafee

alee92nawaz said:


> He shot sukhoi or mig? Or the F-16


One Su30 shot down by PAF for sure. 

All F16's accounted for.

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## alee92nawaz

volatile said:


> Looking at the events both Air Forces played very risky game . PAF as per events bait the IAF and IAF went for kill (Making proud and Jai Hind) with loaded Su,Migs . While PAF was waiting /sneaked upon them ,I mean in the age of BVR it was literally seconds (No dog fight occurs with Attackers) the so called dog fight was between the bait plane and Indian Air force Surmas . IAF is embarrassed to admit that Flanker is down by nimble planes . The odds will always be not our side ,we need to step our game one more step


Where have the hidden the big fat sukhoi? They can't just swallow it.


----------



## SQ8

rollingrock said:


> @Oscar
> Okay, what's your source of information? I now think F-16s were deployed within Pakistani air and said it in a thread I started. However, whether an F-16 scored a kill is still in question.
> 
> I noticed a few "American Pakistanis" on this forum. Some definitely sound like Indians and dumb. You seem to be a smarter one who actually convinced a lot of members here. LOL


Im confused, what do you mean by source?


----------



## alee92nawaz

Khafee said:


> One Su30 shot down by PAF for sure.
> 
> All F16's accounted for.


Are you on in the airforce? DG ghafoor chacha hasn't denied anything



Oscar said:


> What F-16 was shot?


The one the indian claim.


----------



## SQ8

alee92nawaz said:


> Where have the hidden the big fat sukhoi? They can't just swallow it.


Perhaps it remains unscathed - there is no official word on which exact jet is the other aircraft.
We have videos showing someone went down. What and who is an unknown quantity - if you wish we can call it urran katola

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## alee92nawaz

Oscar said:


> Perhaps it remains unscathed - there is no official word on which exact jet is the other aircraft.
> We have videos showing someone went down. What and who is an unknown quantity - if you wish we can call it urran katola


People and media claiming su-30mki seems ridiculous. I hope things get clearer.


----------



## Dazzler

Tps43 said:


> U need mooli wala



I love mooli wala, send it over plz.

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## SQ8

alee92nawaz said:


> Are you on in the airforce? DG ghafoor chacha hasn't denied anything
> 
> 
> The one the indian claim.


Maybe you can go take a stroll to the F-16 bases after this drama and then count all F-16s versus all those transferred to us and let us know if a F-16 was shot down or not.

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## SQ8

alee92nawaz said:


> People and media claiming su-30mki seems ridiculous. I hope things get clearer.


Its impossible in the fog of war.
At least we have two kills seen both by video and a live pilot.
Eventually, it will get investigated and known to us .. unlike India where it seems their media and ruling party is hell bent on making them a fascist security state.



rollingrock said:


> If I understood correctly, you claimed a Pak F-16 scored a kill on Feb 27. That's what I'm asking you...what is your source of information?


F-16 pilot

Now even the ISPR has released the name

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## volatile

alee92nawaz said:


> Where have the hidden the big fat sukhoi? They can't just swallow it.


The first casualty of war is truth ,I'm assuming with recounts from many people ,I assume the (IAF) MI17 down was on SAR and so was something from ourside in search of wreckage of flanker (assume) ,on radar in such war scenarios screens are full of clusters and impossible to detect Friend and Foe .As panic prevails and hiding for flanker wreckage they shot there own . Hypothesis 101


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/03/09/india/india-pakistan-jet-intl/index.html

The Indians now officially whining to the US.

For a country that claims they came out on top and downed an F-16, that’s a lot of whining and crying over the use of F-16’s. Suggests that the IAF was hit hard and the Indians were rather shocked when their military installations got ‘pinged’ by the PAF. The body language and facial expressions of their military staff when presenting remnants of the AIM-120 were a giveaway as well - looked shellshocked.

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## OCguy

alee92nawaz said:


> People and media claiming su-30mki seems ridiculous. I hope things get clearer.



It's the wreckage they pulled the American ordinance out of. 

Or did the F-16 hit the helicopter?


----------



## SQ8

volatile said:


> The first casualty of war is truth ,I'm assuming with recounts from many people ,I assume the (IAF) MI17 down was on SAR and so was something from ourside in search of wreckage of flanker (assume) ,on radar in such war scenarios screens are full of clusters and impossible to detect Friend and Foe .As panic prevails and hiding for flanker wreckage they shot there own . Hypothesis 101


That is the PAF’s guess that either their AD or an interceptor shot down that Mi-17.

It could very well be a technical fault or misjudged evasive maneuvering .. unknown and upto the Indians to get to the bottom of it; their lives and tax money.

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## alee92nawaz

volatile said:


> The first casualty of war is truth ,I'm assuming with recounts from many people ,I assume the (IAF) MI17 down was on SAR and so was something from ourside in search of wreckage of flanker (assume) ,on radar in such war scenarios screens are full of clusters and impossible to detect Friend and Foe .As panic prevails and hiding for flanker wreckage they shot there own . Hypothesis 101


To hide one wreckage they shot the helicopter 100km back?



OCguy said:


> It's the wreckage they pulled the American ordinance out of.
> 
> Or did the F-16 hit the helicopter?


Lol .


----------



## SQ8

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/03/09/india/india-pakistan-jet-intl/index.html
> 
> The Indians now officially whining to the US.
> 
> For a country that claims they came out on top and downed an F-16, that’s a lot of whining and crying over the use of F-16’s. Suggests that the IAF was hit hard and the Indians were rather shocked when their military installations got ‘pinged’ by the PAF. The body language and facial expressions of their military staff when presenting remnants of the AIM-120 were a giveaway as well - looked shellshocked.


We shouldn’t be surprised, we face an a shameless enemy who will do anything to wipe us out by any means necessary. Dirty fighting is part of their arsenal and we should have prepared for it.

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## Khafee

Zulfiqar said:


> Who is this guy in the video.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1104383636684660736


not abhi nandan

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## alee92nawaz

Oscar said:


> Its impossible in the fog of war.
> At least we have two kills seen both by video and a live pilot.
> Eventually, it will get investigated and known to us .. unlike India where it seems their media and ruling party is hell bent on making them a fascist security state.
> 
> 
> F-16 pilot
> 
> Now even the ISPR has released the name


Not the ISPR. I think FM qureshi


----------



## OCguy

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/03/09/india/india-pakistan-jet-intl/index.html
> 
> The Indians now officially whining to the US.
> 
> For a country that claims they came out on top and downed an F-16, that’s a lot of whining and crying over the use of F-16’s. Suggests that the IAF was hit hard and the Indians were rather shocked when their military installations got ‘pinged’ by the PAF. The body language and facial expressions of their military staff when presenting remnants of the AIM-120 were a giveaway as well - looked shellshocked.



They can complain all they want, we will pay minor lip service and move on.

India is on Lockheed Martin's s-List for falsely claiming an old clunker took down a Blck 52 F-16.

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## volatile

Oscar said:


> That is the PAF’s guess that either their AD or an interceptor shot down that Mi-17.
> 
> It could very well be a technical fault or misjudged evasive maneuvering .. unknown and upto the Indians to get to the bottom of it; their lives and tax money.


My hypothesis it is shot down by other Mig (own kill) ,as they thought it was another intrusion by PAF . Or may be it was fired on PAF and unfortunately the missile took down chopper . Im quite sure it was on SAR for other down aircraft and was shot down by IAF itself

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## SQ8

alee92nawaz said:


> Not the ISPR. I think FM qureshi


Either way, the bigger picture is that two jets were verified as a kill; one a mig-21 but the second we cannot identify for sure. Will the info eventually come out? 
No one knows for sure



rollingrock said:


> LOL F-16 of which country? ISPR? WTF? Do they still have any credibility? Just so you know, the pilots of J-20 in China are also cross-trained with J-16 and J-10C.
> 
> On the other hand, that was why I was asking which AWACS or AEW&C was used on Feb 26 and 27. That answer would stop a lot of debates here.


Details I have no idea about.



volatile said:


> My hypothesis it is shot down by other Mig (own kill) ,as they thought it was another intrusion by PAF . Or may be it was fired on PAF and unfortunately the missile took down chopper . Im quite sure it was on SAR for SU and was shot down by IAF itself


Fog of war; and something we can only speculate about and the Indians can only reveal or lie to themselves and the world about.
Its their loss to investigate, for us its another asset and personnel we don’t have to face in conflict.

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## OCguy

Oscar said:


> Either way, the bigger picture is that two jets were verified as a kill; one a mig-21 but the second we cannot identify for sure. Will the info eventually come out?
> No one knows for sure
> 
> 
> Details I have no idea about.



Such a mystery.  (non alcoholic)


----------



## Oruc

@Oscar @Windjammer wikipedia claims that PAF lost 9 F-16s in accidents. Is it true? bcz I can't recall losing all these aircrafts.


----------



## SQ8

Strife said:


> @Oscar @Windjammer wikipedia claims that PAF lost 9 F-16s in accidents. Is it true? bcz I can't recall losing all these aircrafts.


Throughout the years- perhaps; again Wikipedia is a publicly editable site and most of the time the rabid Indian nationalist is trying to twist articles to suit their narrative.

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## volatile

alee92nawaz said:


> To hide one wreckage they shot the helicopter 100km back?


not to hide wreckage in friendly fire ,Big RCS , IR signal off the chart


----------



## OCguy

Strife said:


> @Oscar @Windjammer wikipedia claims that PAF lost 9 F-16s in accidents. Is it true? bcz I can't recall losing all these aircrafts.



Here you go. RIP to the brave who were lost. And their families.

http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/mishaps-and-accidents/airforce/PAF/

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## messiach

It is. It was carrying central & wingtipped ECM pods for ECM/P.



Oscar said:


> If that is the altitude, then it would be a BVR wall ship that high and not a short legged interceptor like the Mig-21.

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## Windjammer

i guess news is slowly trickling out.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1104419201169666049

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## messiach

Beyond visual range interception. First kill.



CriticalThought said:


> Madam can you please elaborate what exactly the confirmation is about?

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## Windjammer

messiach said:


> Beyond visual range interception. First kill.


Confirmed by other means than blip disappearing .

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## Zulfiqar

Zulfiqar said:


> Does not look like rajisthan.
> 
> The helmet looks different than WC abhi's considering yesterday's crash was a mig as well.
> 
> Can someone identify the rank as I always had difficulty identifying air force rank.



Looks like it was from recent jaguar crash.


----------



## NA71

Windjammer said:


> i guess news is slowly trickling out.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1104419201169666049


The twitter handle casts doubts for Indians and indirectly confirming the why Hassan & Nauman are so excited. In few days the story will be completely unfolded through IAF/media.


----------



## SQ8

messiach said:


> It is. It was carrying central & wingtipped ECM pods for ECM/P.


Aim-120 homes on jamming- worst ship to be on. India would be well places to invest in decoys.

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## Tps43

Dazzler said:


> I love mooli wala, send it over plz.


Hahahahaha ok sir done

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## The Eagle

Oscar said:


> Aim-120 homes on jamming- worst ship to be on. India would be well places to invest in decoys.



Running to French this time? That could be the probability after whatever learnt from this. So the "Raptor" couldn't do so what it was meant to. I see more emphasis on lobbying in US to at-least impose something on Fleet which will not be done for merely Abhi....

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## Dazzler

messiach said:


> Beyond visual range interception. First kill.



An authentic source claims it was done using SD-10?

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## PDF

Dazzler said:


> An authentic source claims it was done using SD-10?


yep, same for me...but not for the jet downed inside IoK...

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## Tps43

Dazzler said:


> An authentic source claims it was done using SD-10?


Nope



M.Musa said:


> yep, same for me...


Nope

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## Dazzler

Tps43 said:


> Nope
> 
> 
> Nope



AMRAAM?

Th mig was downed using pl-5EII that's confirmed.

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## YeBeWarned

Tps43 said:


> Nope
> 
> 
> Nope



PL-10 ? HQ-16 ? SPADA ? MANPAD ? GHAURI ?

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## PDF

Tps43 said:


> Nope
> 
> 
> Nope





Tps43 said:


> Nope
> 
> 
> Nope


SD-10 took down a MiG... to clarify...

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## Tps43

Starlord said:


> PL-10 ? HQ-16 ? SPADA ? MANPAD ? GHAURI ?


Shaheen 3

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## YeBeWarned

Tps43 said:


> Shaheen 3

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## Tps43

M.Musa said:


> SD-10 took down a MiG... to clarify...[/QUOTE

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## YeBeWarned

Tps43 said:


> I saw whole replay of mission there’s a reason why me and @Bilal Khan 777 congratulating 9sqn



bhai PM ker de , kyun tarsaa raha hai

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## YeBeWarned

Tps43 said:


> Mamla thanda hone de abhi zaraa phir zarra khul ke baat hogi



Chalo wait ker lete hai , sabr ka phaal Meetha hota hai ..

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## Tps43

Starlord said:


> Chalo wait ker lete hai , sabr ka phaal Meetha hota hai ..


Kuch ziyada metha mela ga

Thanks @Dazzler

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## Dazzler

Tps43 said:


> Mamla thanda hone de abhi zaraa phir zarra khul ke baat hogi
> 
> 
> There’s a reason but for the time being can u remove ur post for now It can create a havoc here





Tps43 said:


> Mamla thanda hone de abhi zaraa phir zarra khul ke baat hogi
> 
> 
> There’s a reason but for the time being can u remove ur post for now It can create a havoc here



To whom it may concern








Tps43 said:


> Kuch ziyada metha mela ga
> 
> Thanks @Dazzler



Least concerned. Not bothered.

I m done.

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## Tps43

Dazzler said:


> To whom it may concern
> 
> View attachment 545377


Actually issue is game isn’t over yet so u got to trust them its not paf’s only decision



Dazzler said:


> Least concerned. Not bothered.
> 
> I m done.


Till the time coc is active we won’t reveal much


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## Dazzler

Tps43 said:


> Actually issue is game isn’t over yet so u got to trust them its not paf’s only decision



My trust was dented several times. Your claim means that the sources lied.

Its time to chop some heads !!

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## Signalian

Dazzler said:


> To whom it may concern


Payen, thori nigah e karam aithay wi daalo, tuhaadi mayerbani

post 693

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-army-information.21550/page-47

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## Tps43

Dazzler said:


> My trust was dented several times. Your claim means that the sources lied.
> 
> Its time to chop some heads !!


Oooo don’t be that much harsh but What Ever I said u can verify it from cas loool


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## Dazzler

Tps43 said:


> Oooo don’t be that much harsh but What Ever I said u can verify it from cas loool



You will have a hard time believing who told me about the thunders being used. One of us will die if the truth came out.

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## Tps43

Dazzler said:


> You will have a hard time believing who told me about the thunders being used. One of us will die if the truth came out.


Pm me?


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## Dazzler

Tps43 said:


> Pm me?



You should first.


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## Tps43

Dazzler said:


> You should first.


I cant as title holder u can


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## The Eagle

Tps43 said:


> Pm me?





Dazzler said:


> You should first.



May I help you both, if needed.


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## Tps43

The Eagle said:


> May I help you both, if needed.


Appreciated


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## Dazzler

The Eagle said:


> May I help you both, if needed.



Sure, go ahead.


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## alee92nawaz

Windjammer said:


> i guess news is slowly trickling out.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1104419201169666049


It's also written in shiv aroor's article that many sukhoi''s and mirages were locked on and were fired upon. I also asked such questions to him that if PAF had locks why did they let them go? because of kindness of heart? He replied that he had asked those questions but in reality he didn't. Maybe PAF F-16s were keeping them occupied so that thunders and mirages could do their jobs and these scared birdies were just trying to break locks r
And i am sure you remember how they celebrated the Mig 29 getting a lock on F-16 in 1999.

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## HRK

Dazzler said:


> You will have a hard time believing who told me about the thunders being used. One of us will die if the truth came out.


bhai I think he did not told you a wrong thing Thunder was used but the real question is *in which operation* ... from the OPEN SOURCE we have one confirmation about the JF-17 use in bombing mission using H-2 and H-4 glide bombs (source AM Shahid Latif interview)

Air to Air kills may be (or may not be) attribute to JF-17 .... _its just my understanding 
_
The *Real thing* is that (again as per Shahid Latif and in his own words) we _pick and chose_ the targets to shoot down that day and other side was in panic as they were put in disadvantage by PAF.



The Eagle said:


> May I help you both, if needed.


add #metoo ....

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## YeBeWarned

HRK said:


> add #metoo ....

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## alee92nawaz

If you saw the whole mission report then do you think SU-30 was shotdown?

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## Tps43

alee92nawaz said:


> If you saw the whole mission report then do you think SU-30 was shotdown?


Affirmative

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## alee92nawaz

Tps43 said:


> Pm me?


Bc har koi sources ki dukan khol kay betha hy



Tps43 said:


> Affirmative


Amraam tha qatil?

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## Tps43

alee92nawaz said:


> Bc har koi sources ki dukan khol kay betha hy
> 
> 
> Amraam tha qatil?


Qatil tou tha wohi lakin dhindhor nhi pitna abhi


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## alee92nawaz

Tps43 said:


> Qatil tou tha wohi lakin dhindhor nhi pitna abhi


Hahaha ok that I can understand.. Just boasting thunders for no reason .. did we lose anything? Except fuels and few bombs.

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## Tps43

alee92nawaz said:


> Hahaha ok that I can understand.. Just boasting thunders for no reason .. did we lose anything? Except fuels and few bombs.


Thunders were epic as well 
And no we didn’t lose anything

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## Mentee

alee92nawaz said:


> Hahaha ok that I can understand.. Just boasting thunders for no reason .. did we lose anything? Except fuels and few bombs.


Your queries shall be entertained in due time but let this war culminate first

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## messiach

MultiBVR scenario. Multiple BVRAAMs involved in first hit.



Dazzler said:


> An authentic source claims it was done using SD-10?

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## YeBeWarned

messiach said:


> MultiBVR scenario. Multiple BVRAAMs involved in first hit.



It feels like IAF were lured into Pakistan, and PAF have set a very precise trap for them ..

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## Dazzler

alee92nawaz said:


> If you saw the whole mission report then do you think SU-30 was shotdown?



Yes, it was.

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## alee92nawaz

Mentee said:


> Your queries shall be entertained in due time but let this war culminate first


I hope so. We will do a funeral service for the flankers

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## The Eagle

HRK said:


> bhai I think he did not told you a wrong thing Thunder was used but the real question is *in which operation* ... from the OPEN SOURCE we have one confirmation about the JF-17 use in bombing mission using H-2 and H-4 glide bombs (source AM Shahid Latif interview)
> 
> Air to Air kills may be (or may not be) attribute to JF-17 .... _its just my understanding
> _
> The *Real thing* is that (again as per Shahid Latif and in his own words) we _pick and chose_ the targets to shoot down that day and other side was in panic as they were put in disadvantage by PAF.
> 
> 
> add #metoo ....





Starlord said:


> View attachment 545380



I just helped two of our friends here to settle the matter in private discussion which is already discussed here & there.

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## Maarkhoor

Khafee said:


> While you guys debate who was flying what, my contact give me info that is irrefutable. Hassan Sid is a bihari


Welcome back.....


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## aziqbal

alee92nawaz said:


> If you saw the whole mission report then do you think SU-30 was shotdown?



do you think former air chief would lie to make fake hero?

do we not have enough real heroes that now we start making up stories for fake heroes

if a former air chief has said it was Su30 MKI I believe him

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## Maarkhoor

@messiach @Oscar @Dazzler @Khafee 
It was a well planned strike or retaliation for uprooting our trees and for sure the death of a Crow....

We attacked them their military targets and we know they will came in chase so we are ready well inside our territory with mixed load of BVRs...they came and we shoot them.....I must say well inside or territory...they fell pray....even shot down their own chopper and very well respected source from PAF told me which is my school friend told me We have shot down big fat boggy...that's it....and it was not gutter fly mig bison...I hope it will clear some doubts.....
Col Sanders @Oscar

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## Dazzler

Maarkhoor said:


> @messiach @Oscar @Dazzler @Khafee
> It was a well planned strike or retaliation for uprooting our trees and for sure the death of a Crow....
> 
> We attacked them their military targets and we know they will came in chase so we are ready well inside our territory with mixed load of BVRs...they came and we shoot them.....I must say well inside or territory...they fell pray....even shot down their own chopper and very well respected source from PAF told me which is my school friend told me We have shot down big fat boggy...that's it....and it was not gutter fly mig bison...I hope it will clear some doubts.....
> Col Sanders @Oscar



a mig.

one big fat mki. 

chopper was own goal.

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## Maarkhoor

Dazzler said:


> a mig.
> 
> one big fat mki.
> 
> chopper was own goal.


PAF doesn't consider Mig Bison a big fat boggy.

Rest I let you on your imagination....

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## zulu

What about the ground targets which was the real mission ?


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## alee92nawaz

Maarkhoor said:


> @messiach @Oscar @Dazzler @Khafee
> It was a well planned strike or retaliation for uprooting our trees and for sure the death of a Crow....
> 
> We attacked them their military targets and we know they will came in chase so we are ready well inside our territory with mixed load of BVRs...they came and we shoot them.....I must say well inside or territory...they fell pray....even shot down their own chopper and very well respected source from PAF told me which is my school friend told me We have shot down big fat boggy...that's it....and it was not gutter fly mig bison...I hope it will clear some doubts.....
> Col Sanders @Oscar


Where's the proof?


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## Maarkhoor

alee92nawaz said:


> Where's the proof?


People ask they have shot down our F-16 block 52+, we are ready for lined up inspection did you ask MODI/IAF they have courage to announce the same.....We can release gun camera video but in BVR we can only show you lock in not actual shooting which only can experts verify that.....



alee92nawaz said:


> Where's the proof?


There are videos of Sardar / Sikh pilot who died in CMH...do you want to force Indians to shoot down even a passenger jet just like they did during Kargill "Atlantic" grow up bro....

We have handed over his body to red cross well documented event lets wait for the details when necessary we will release...

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## Dazzler

Maarkhoor said:


> PAF doesn't consider Mig Bison a big fat boggy.
> 
> Rest I let you on your imagination....



Read the post again. i mentioned the mig separately.



Maarkhoor said:


> We have handed over his body to red cross well documented event lets wait for the details when necessary we will release...



After what has happened, they will need to loan elephant's balls to dare to do a misadventure like they did with the Atlantic.

A lot has changed since then, and they know about it too well now. We may end up killing the bogeys before they know it.

No, it is not false bravado.

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## Jinn Baba

Just tell me this: was the Bison a JF17 kill? And in any future confrontation would the JF17/SD10 be PAFs first or second choice for air combat?

@Tps43 @messiach @The Eagle @Dazzler

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## CriticalThought

Jinn Baba said:


> Just tell me this: was the Bison a JF17 kill? And in any future confrontation would the JF17/SD10 be PAFs first or second choice for air combat?
> 
> @Tps43 @messiach @The Eagle @Dazzler



This is what I have cleaned so far from open source + hints on forum.

The Bison was a Thunder kill. Supported by AVM Shahid Latif. On the forum, hints about Su-30 seem to suggest involvement of F-16 and AMRAAM. Some suggestions hint at a combined kill. Yet others say it was Thunder. What seems to be definite is that a Su-30 was killed.

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## Thorough Pro

What 's wrong with Pakistani posters?

Air battles are not X plane vs Y plane, it's PAF vs IAF as two teams/organizations with all their assets, strategies, skills, and expertise. IAF suffered both losses as well as face.

That should be enough. What PAF leadership stated should be enough. IF they are not saying something, then there must be strategic reasons behind that. No need for us to muddy the waters by posing questions, and spreading rumours. Two indian jets down, 1 pilot captured alive and returned as per great Islamic teachings.

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## CriticalThought

Thorough Pro said:


> What 's wrong with Pakistani posters?
> 
> Air battles are not X plane vs Y plane, it's PAF vs IAF as two teams/organizations with all their assets, strategies, skills, and expertise. IAF suffered both losses as well as face.
> 
> That should be enough. What PAF leadership stated should be enough. IF they are not saying something, then there must be strategic reasons behind that. No need for us to muddy the waters by posing questions, and spreading rumours. Two indian jets down, 1 pilot captured alive and returned as per great Islamic teachings.



The claims of AVM Shahid Latif have not been contradicted. Remember, we are living in times where ex military professionals are accountable, e.g., Assad Durrani.


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## Jinn Baba

CriticalThought said:


> This is what I have cleaned so far from open source + hints on forum.
> 
> The Bison was a Thunder kill. Supported by AVM Shahid Latif. On the forum, hints about Su-30 seem to suggest involvement of F-16 and AMRAAM. Some suggestions hint at a combined kill. Yet others say it was Thunder. What seems to be definite is that a Su-30 was killed.



That's what I gather so far too. I just want to know how well JF17/SD10 performed and whether it can answer any challenge from across the border without sanction prone support

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## OCguy

Thorough Pro said:


> What 's wrong with Pakistani posters?
> 
> Air battles are not X plane vs Y plane, it's PAF vs IAF as two teams/organizations with all their assets, strategies, skills, and expertise. IAF suffered both losses as well as face.
> 
> That should be enough. What PAF leadership stated should be enough. IF they are not saying something, then there must be strategic reasons behind that. No need for us to muddy the waters by posing questions, and spreading rumours. Two indian jets down, 1 pilot captured alive and returned as per great Islamic teachings.



This way of thinking is not compatible with the entire point of exchanging ideas on a message board.


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## CriticalThought

Jinn Baba said:


> That's what I gather so far too. I just want to know how well JF17/SD10 performed and whether it can answer any challenge from across the border without sanction prone support



Of course. That is a question not even worth raising today. Alhamdulillah, by the Grace and Mercy of Allah the Almighty, we are completely independent of American aid in terms of our air defence needs

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## Dazzler

Jinn Baba said:


> That's what I gather so far too. I just want to know how well JF17/SD10 performed and whether it can answer any challenge from across the border without sanction prone support



It performed better than expected, and played its part in making the mission a success.

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## OCguy

CriticalThought said:


> Of course. That is a question not even worth raising today. Alhamdulillah, by the Grace and Mercy of Allah the Almighty, we are completely independent of American aid in terms of our air defence needs



USAF and PAF have a history of working close together for training. As PAF reduces their use of US platforms, we still welcome pilots to come study at our acadamies, which they do. 

It is strange for an outsider to watch PAF happily train wlin the US desert alongside US and Israeli squads, then see the inherent resentment from the average citizen. Oh well.

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## Thorough Pro

I agree if the message board was discussing social issues. We are discussing questions regarding sensitive /strategic issues in the middle of high tensions with an adversary and the situation is still very hot. but this is just my opinion.



OCguy said:


> This way of thinking is not compatible with the entire point of exchanging ideas on a message board.

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## OCguy

Thorough Pro said:


> I agree if the message board was discussing social issues. We are discussing questions regarding sensitive /strategic issues in the middle of high tensions with an adversary and the situation is still very hot. but this is just my opinion.



I respect that opinion. But even if this board didn't exist, these issues are being discussed in far more detail and accuracy in other places online, openly.

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## Jinn Baba

OCguy said:


> USAF and PAF have a history of working close together for training. As PAF reduces their use of US platforms, we still welcome pilots to come study at our acadamies, which they do.
> 
> It is strange for an outsider to watch PAF happily train wlin the US desert alongside US and Israeli squads, then see the inherent resentment from the average citizen. Oh well.



Deliver the AH1Zs and the Hellfires that were ordered a few years back and there may be less resentment 



Dazzler said:


> It performed better than expected, and played its part in making the mission a success.


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## TheDarkKnight

OCguy said:


> I respect that opinion. But even if this board didn't exist, these issues are being discussed in far more detail and accuracy in other places online, openly.


Can you please share a link to one of these threads?


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## untitled

OCguy said:


> It is strange for an outsider to watch PAF happily train wlin the US desert alongside US and Israeli squads,


We ordinary Pakistani don't get it either. The PAF, the Israeli AF and the USAF training together at Red Flag? What was the thought process behind this? Might as well have invited the Indian AF too, while we were at it.

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## SQ8

Maarkhoor said:


> @messiach @Oscar @Dazzler @Khafee
> It was a well planned strike or retaliation for uprooting our trees and for sure the death of a Crow....
> 
> We attacked them their military targets and we know they will came in chase so we are ready well inside our territory with mixed load of BVRs...they came and we shoot them.....I must say well inside or territory...they fell pray....even shot down their own chopper and very well respected source from PAF told me which is my school friend told me We have shot down big fat boggy...that's it....and it was not gutter fly mig bison...I hope it will clear some doubts.....
> Col Sanders @Oscar


Something along the lines-

In addendum; they basically performed a mock attack on real world targets.

The most important takeaway was that the PAF established air superiority during the time the attack was in progress. This was not a stand off drop off munitions sneak attack and run but a proper package that went in, supressed EW threats, took control of the target skies by either shooting down or chasing away enemy aircraft and then executed the attack with an extended time on target.

This was a straight forward “dont mess with us!”

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## OCguy

Jinn Baba said:


> Deliver the AH1Zs and the Hellfires that were ordered a few years back and there may be less resentment



While I don't think it will change much as far as perception of the US, I agree with you 100%.

That deal was finalized and the Vipers should be delivered ASAP. My guess is that they will be.



member.exe said:


> We ordinary Pakistani don't get it either. The PAF, the Israeli AF and the USAF training together at Red Flag? What was the thought process behind this? Might as well have invited the Indian AF too, while we were at it.



It's the same as when US forces embedded with ISI in Waziristan. Or the CIA had a large drone base in Pakistan. 
The strategic relationship between governments is usually far more nuanced than what gets publicized to the masses.

This is everywhere, I'm not singling out Pakistan. US .gov does it as well.

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## M.AsfandYar

HRK said:


> bhai I think he did not told you a wrong thing Thunder was used but the real question is *in which operation* ... from the OPEN SOURCE we have one confirmation about the JF-17 use in bombing mission using H-2 and H-4 glide bombs (source AM Shahid Latif interview)
> 
> Air to Air kills may be (or may not be) attribute to JF-17 .... _its just my understanding
> _
> The *Real thing* is that (again as per Shahid Latif and in his own words) we _pick and chose_ the targets to shoot down that day and other side was in panic as they were put in disadvantage by PAF.
> 
> 
> add #metoo ....


I am feeling abandoned. WE deserve some answers too. #metoo
@Dazzler @Tps43

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## Signalian

@Tps43 ...you couldn't keep it under the wraps.. could you. Had i known you would say it openly here, i would have stopped you. Next time try to keep your lips sealed.

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## Dazzler

M.AsfandYar said:


> I am feeling abandoned. WE deserve some answers too. #metoo
> @Dazzler @Tps43



I know as little as any, feeling abandoned too

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## aliyusuf

M.AsfandYar said:


> I am feeling abandoned. WE deserve some answers too. #metoo
> @Dazzler @Tps43


#MeToo
@Tps43 @Dazzler 
_Por favor senors_??!!!


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## Dazzler

Signalian said:


> @Tps43 ...you couldn't keep it under the wraps.. could you. Had i known you would say it openly here, i would have stopped you. Next time try to keep your li





Signalian said:


> @Tps43 ...you couldn't keep it under the wraps.. could you. Had i known you would say it openly here, i would have stopped you. Next time try to keep your lips sealed.



You have some explaining to do.

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## Arsalan 345

this is abhinandan hahaha. see his plane in the background xd.


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## YeBeWarned

Oscar said:


> Something along the lines-
> 
> In addendum; they basically performed a mock attack on real world targets.
> 
> The most important takeaway was that the PAF established air superiority during the time the attack was in progress. This was not a stand off drop off munitions sneak attack and run but a proper package that went in, supressed EW threats, took control of the target skies by either shooting down or chasing away enemy aircraft and then executed the attack with an extended time on target.
> 
> This was a straight forward “dont mess with us!”



I think the message was pretty well taken across the border and beyond

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## SQ8

OCguy said:


> While I don't think it will change much as far as perception of the US, I agree with you 100%.
> 
> That deal was finalized and the Vipers should be delivered ASAP. My guess is that they will be.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the same as when US forces embedded with ISI in Waziristan. Or the CIA had a large drone base in Pakistan.
> The strategic relationship between governments is usually far more nuanced than what gets publicized to the masses.
> 
> This is everywhere, I'm not singling out Pakistan. US .gov does it as well.


What is lost upon a lot of members is the level of cooperation between the two forces is missed.

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## gangsta_rap

OCguy said:


> The strategic relationship between governments is usually far more nuanced than what gets publicized to the masses.



The issue in this case between the US and Pakistan is that although our strategic partnership is apparent and our military-to-military relationship is extremely professional and historically close, the civilian administration in the US keeps changing its mind every 2 seconds and nowadays disregards the ground realities in favor of lobbyist influence.

I don't how its even understand how exactly its possible to have it like that - the pentagon and the GHQ being on good terms while the congress won't ever stop blaming us for everything wrong in this part of the world.

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## OCguy

TheDarkKnight said:


> Can you please share a link to one of these threads?



I have done so recently, but will be more cautious in the future. This board is visited by cyber-intel actors, who have been very busy spreading false information around Western social media in the last week.


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## SQ8

GIANTsasquatch said:


> The issue in this case between the US and Pakistan is that although our strategic partnership is apparent and our military-to-military relationship is extremely professional and historically close, the civilian administration in the US keeps changing its mind every 2 seconds and nowadays disregards the ground realities in favor of lobbyist influence.
> 
> I don't how its even understand how exactly its possible to have it like that - the pentagon and the GHQ being on good terms while the congress won't ever stop blaming us for everything wrong in this part of the world.



Smoke and mirrors.
Ever see a delta operative embedded with FC ? 


Tps43 said:


> Qatil tou tha wohi lakin dhindhor nhi pitna abhi


Issi liye baar baar yehan mukhtalif patrian charhani hain.

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## Bilal Khan 777

Gentlemen,
It is irrelevant on who shot down who, or with what. Bottom Line: PAF performed as trained, and is capable to defend. Rest of the discussion, claims, and talk is useless and irrelevant. The responsible people are the ones who should analyze the success, and scrutinize the weaknesses, and assist PAF in development of the weak areas.
Best wishes.

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## Tps43

Signalian said:


> @Tps43 ...you couldn't keep it under the wraps.. could you. Had i known you would say it openly here, i would have stopped you. Next time try to keep your lips sealed.


Yeah I got a lil over excited



Oscar said:


> Smoke and mirrors.
> Ever see a delta operative embedded with FC ?
> 
> Issi liye baar baar yehan mukhtalif patrian charhani hain.


Bhai jo sarkar keh rahi hai wohi sahi hoga hum ku apne parr jalain



Dazzler said:


> You have some explaining to do.


Sometimes my buddies draw a line gor me and if they don’t then I can’t put full stop lool

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## Tps43

M.AsfandYar said:


> I am feeling abandoned. WE deserve some answers too. #metoo
> @Dazzler @Tps43


Let’s just stick to what ispr said shall we?

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## SQ8

Tps43 said:


> Yeah I got a lil over excited
> 
> 
> Bhai jo sarkar keh rahi hai wohi sahi hoga hum ku apne parr jalain
> 
> 
> Sometimes my buddies draw a line gor me and if they don’t then I can’t put full stop lool


2 aircraft are down, we don’t care how(for now).

What matters is that the airforce that was bragging of two front wars and superior technology dominance was taken aback and has resorting to posting badly written spoken word poems to try and boost morale while pacifying the anger of their pilots.

It also means that they are preparing and adapting. Next time wont be such a cake walk.

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## Tps43

Oscar said:


> 2 aircraft are down, we don’t care how(for now).
> 
> What matters is that the airforce that was bragging of two front wars and superior technology dominance was taken aback and has resorting to posting badly written spoken word poems to try and boost morale while pacifying the anger of their pilots.
> 
> It also means that they are preparing and adapting. Next time wont be such a cake walk.


True , for the first after 1971 paf retaliated with offensive plan and that took iaf by surprise but one thing is for sure god forbid if war breaks out today then atleast our air force will be at advantage.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Oscar said:


> It also means that they are preparing and adapting. Next time wont be such a cake walk.


One of the biggest differences between Pakistani posters such as yourself and otherwise respected & knowledgeable Indian posters on this forum and elsewhere - a recognition that the enemy is not stagnant. Any ‘success’ from our end will be dissected, analyzed and adapted to.

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## Maarkhoor

Dazzler said:


> Read the post again. i mentioned the mig separately.
> 
> 
> 
> After what has happened, they will need to loan elephant's balls to dare to do a misadventure like they did with the Atlantic.
> 
> A lot has changed since then, and they know about it too well now. We may end up killing the bogeys before they know it.
> 
> No, it is not false bravado.


They are cowards like Atlantic incident they are planing to level they score even this time they may tried to hit civilian jet....Pathetic


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## alee92nawaz

Maarkhoor said:


> People ask they have shot down our F-16 block 52+, we are ready for lined up inspection did you ask MODI/IAF they have courage to announce the same.....We can release gun camera video but in BVR we can only show you lock in not actual shooting which only can experts verify that.....
> 
> 
> There are videos of Sardar / Sikh pilot who died in CMH...do you want to force Indians to shoot down even a passenger jet just like they did during Kargill "Atlantic" grow up bro....
> 
> We have handed over his body to red cross well documented event lets wait for the details when necessary we will release...


Oops. Seems little bit too much. Haven't seen any video of sikh pilot. How did india hide the wreckage is the biggest question. How did they hide the death of the pilot? PAF hasn't officially said anything about F-16s nd indian claim.


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## Maarkhoor

alee92nawaz said:


> Oops. Seems little bit too much. Haven't seen any video of sikh pilot. How did india hide the wreckage is the biggest question. How did they hide the death of the pilot? PAF hasn't officially said anything about F-16s nd indian claim.


Wreckage fell on Indian side and pilot was captured by army so civilians have no video....


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## GriffinsRule

The Su-30 fell from a very high altitude and was already breaking up in the air. It probably did not fall in a neat pile hence is easier to hide as the wreckage is spread over a larger area.

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## NA71

GriffinsRule said:


> The Su-30 fell from a very high altitude and was already breaking up in the air. It probably did not fall in a neat pile hence is easier to hide as the wreckage is spread over a larger area.


This indeed supported by news from India that Large no of indian army personnel have to deployed to that area to search the area and collect the remains/pieces of AIM-120c missiles fired from F-16 on that day. Actually the entire activity is meant for big bird's wreckage collection from area covering large area. No civilian is allowed till the search completed.

http://www.wionews.com/india-news/p...at-indian-planes-from-40-50-km-sources-201455

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## Dazzler

Oscar said:


> Something along the lines-
> 
> In addendum; they basically performed a mock attack on real world targets.
> 
> The most important takeaway was that the PAF established air superiority during the time the attack was in progress. This was not a stand off drop off munitions sneak attack and run but a proper package that went in, supressed EW threats, took control of the target skies by either shooting down or chasing away enemy aircraft and then executed the attack with an extended time on target.
> 
> This was a straight forward “dont mess with us!”



@mastaan
As close as it gets. Read it nor for the sake of reading. Get the message and you'll know what actually happened.

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## mastaan

Dazzler said:


> @mastaan
> As close as it gets. Read it nor for the sake of reading. Get the message and you'll know what actually happened.


That this happened in broad day light and the very next day told me that it was well coordinated and was meant to destroy any perception of deterrence. I agree.


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## untitled

This thread was an interesting read:
IAF violated Pakistan airspace (2008)

The IAF had trolls even back then

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## messiach

mig - FC1
flanker - multiBVR scenario

Yes. Why not.



Jinn Baba said:


> Just tell me this: was the Bison a JF17 kill? And in any future confrontation would the JF17/SD10 be PAFs first or second choice for air combat?
> 
> @Tps43 @messiach @The Eagle @Dazzler

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## The Eagle

Jinn Baba said:


> Just tell me this: was the Bison a JF17 kill? And in any future confrontation would the JF17/SD10 be PAFs first or second choice for air combat?
> 
> @Tps43 @messiach @The Eagle @Dazzler



Many have shared what happened. However, we can only rely upon official statement. For the time being, it is proven that PAF ruled the sky the way we wanted. The whole package delivered a surprise that enemy is analyzing and wouldn't dare another violation unless, something more capable. Currently, PAF totally checkmated the game in almost every area. Also, this is not the point where we shall stop rather, men in uniform are back to work since that time and polishing further skills. 

People have been tortured with "Raptor" this & that for so long which is settled within seconds by PAF. Many have confirmed so I will mention in my words as well that BVRs were like raining on them and there was no escape at all. 

Also, that story of MKI escaping 4 or so BVR is nothing but in reality, was running like hell & trying to get out of Radar Lock every time PAF sets on it. The deluded minds have nothing to boast now except that MKI dodged them & doesn't even know that what actually happened. But there statement also proves that how the hell MKI was trying to save himself all the time and couldn't get a single shot.

Thunder did more than expected and the word is out especially to the interested parties. Interested Air Force will be briefed as & when needed. Proven its mettle, felt the pace of battle & so, tasted.

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## The Accountant

The Eagle said:


> Many have shared what happened. However, we can only rely upon official statement. For the time being, it is proven that PAF ruled the sky the way we wanted. The whole package delivered a surprise that enemy is analyzing and wouldn't dare another violation unless, something more capable. Currently, PAF totally checkmated the game in almost every area. Also, this is not the point where we shall stop rather, men in uniform are back to work since that time and polishing further skills.
> 
> People have been tortured with "Raptor" this & that for so long which is settled within seconds by PAF. Many have confirmed so I will mention in my words as well that BVRs were like raining on them and there was no escape at all.
> 
> Also, that story of MKI escaping 4 or so BVR is nothing but in reality, was running like hell & trying to get out of Radar Lock every time PAF sets on it. The deluded minds have nothing to boast now except that MKI dodged them & doesn't even know that what actually happened. But there statement also proves that how the hell MKI was trying to save himself all the time and couldn't get a single shot.
> 
> Thunder did more than expected and the word is out especially to the interested parties. Interested Air Force will be briefed as & when needed. Proven its mettle, felt the pace of battle & so, tasted.



But isnt it point of concern with respect to misile performance that out 20% hit ratio or i m getting it wrong?


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## The Eagle

The Accountant said:


> But isnt it point of concern with respect to misile performance that out 20% hit ratio or i m getting it wrong?



They are employing it somehow. On this side, launched & hit the target as it was meant to and was successful. MKI was only trying to save itself from Radar that now Indians are narrating as 4 BVR miss. Hope you got.

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## YeBeWarned

the most fascinating part that according to some rumors , IAF plan was to strike In Pakistan lure PAF into their Territory where they were waiting to shoot down our jets , and boost that we did not just Strike Pakistan but also take down PAF in process without seen as a Aggressors, but Pakistan outplayed India and IAF , used their own plan against them .

@Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43

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## Tps43

Starlord said:


> the most fascinating part that according to some rumors , IAF plan was to strike In Pakistan lure PAF into their Territory where they were waiting to shoot down our jets , and boost that we did not just Strike Pakistan but also take down PAF in process without seen as a Aggressors, but Pakistan outplayed India and IAF , used their own plan against them .
> 
> @Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43


That exactly what happened

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## zulu

Tps43 said:


> That exactly what happened


And that time PAF used that trick against them perfectly like"""unka jota unky hi sar ) btw have to thank you @Tps43 and bhai Dazzler kaal raat tu aap dono ny thread main aag hi laga dii thii thanx again

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## Tps43

zulu said:


> And that time PAF used that trick against them perfectly like"""unka jota unky hi sar ) btw have to thank you @Tps43 and bhai Dazzler kaal raat tu aap dono ny thread main aag hi laga dii thii thanx again


Hahahahaha thanku thanku

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## Shameel

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> The Palestinians and other Arabs support and advocate india. Are they our enemy too?



Arab and Palestinian air advisors are not in India assisting IAF warplanners with their war plans against the PAF.

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## Wow

For the Indians here

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## Thorough Pro

That is why it is more important for us to not brag about/disclose our strategy, technology and assets. What we used was a fraction of what PAF has been doing quietly behind the curtain for more than a decade. There are even bigger / better surprises waiting for them if they continue with their miscalculations. 



Oscar said:


> 2 aircraft are down, we don’t care how(for now).
> 
> What matters is that the airforce that was bragging of two front wars and superior technology dominance was taken aback and has resorting to posting badly written spoken word poems to try and boost morale while pacifying the anger of their pilots.
> 
> *It also means that they are preparing and adapting. Next time wont be such a cake walk*.

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## alee92nawaz

member.exe said:


> This thread was an interesting read:
> IAF violated Pakistan airspace (2008)
> 
> The IAF had trolls even back then


I think PAF didn't have BVRs back then. Indians really were looking for a way to attack. Gillani was also a coward.


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## untitled

alee92nawaz said:


> think PAF


Unfortunately the PAF never got the clearance to shoot


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## Reichsmarschall

__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## Windjammer

*The Saffron Slayer seen in an earlier Red Flag Exercise.*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1107647069420957696

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## HawkEye27

Seems both of them are goinh to get a medal along with all the pilots in strike formation

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## Peaceful Civilian

Well done PAF pilots. We expect same in future. Keep roaring on sky and teach enemy lesson whenever we need. 
They sent best pilot called Abinandan. He was also son of former air Marshall.

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## Trailer23

*Noaman Ali Khan* (first from Right) with boys of #9 Squadron in 2010 Red Flag.

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## Windjammer

Contrary to what's been generally reported, it now transpires that Squadron Leader Hassan Siddiqui is the pilot who hit the Indian SU-30 MKI. while it was Wing Commander Nouman who shot down the MiG-21. Albeit, both pilots wanted to remain out of the limelight but it was due to the high value kill, that S/L Hassan was repeatedly getting mentioned.,

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## Ali_Baba

What we are lacking is an offical statement from the PAF. Until we get that, these theories and inconsistencies will float around and undermine the effort. This is a perfect example of it!!!

What aircraft was he flying at the time? Which missile made the kill ?

If it was the JF17, does thast imply all of the AMRAAMs missed their mark?


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## Yaseen1

i think his interview should be taken by media


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## Maxpane

both are slayers of IAF. thats all

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Windjammer said:


> Contrary to what's been generally reported, it now transpires that Squadron Leader Hassan Siddiqui is the pilot who hit the Indian SU-30 MKI. while it was Wing Commander Nouman who shot down the MiG-21. Albeit, both pilots wanted to remain out of the limelight but it was due to the high value kill, that S/L Hassan was repeatedly getting mentioned.,
> 
> View attachment 553133
> 
> 
> View attachment 553145




Such a gentle, kind face... I am sure would be a very friendly person...

What happens to PAF Pilots.. that they become such Ruthless Terminators once in cockpit? 

PAF Mystery our Indian friends will never be able to solve.

#Killing_IAF_With_Smile

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## Secret Service

Windjammer said:


> Contrary to what's been generally reported, it now transpires that Squadron Leader Hassan Siddiqui is the pilot who hit the Indian SU-30 MKI. while it was Wing Commander Nouman who shot down the MiG-21. Albeit, both pilots wanted to remain out of the limelight but it was due to the high value kill, that S/L Hassan was repeatedly getting mentioned.,
> 
> View attachment 553133
> 
> 
> View attachment 553145



How do you know ?


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## Windjammer

Ali_Baba said:


> What we are lacking is an offical statement from the PAF. Until we get that, these theories and inconsistencies will float around and undermine the effort. This is a perfect example of it!!!
> 
> What aircraft was he flying at the time? Which missile made the kill ?
> 
> If it was the JF17, does thast imply all of the AMRAAMs missed their mark?


Media started drawing it's conclusions as the MiG-21 was a high profile kill....however the disclosure is made by a former high ranking officer with very close contacts in the PAF.

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## KeyBORED Warrior

Keep the controversy, let the indians scratch their heads, keep them guessing. Those who need to know, already know and are more fearful now. That's the most important thing. The rest is irrelevant.

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## The Diplomat

@Windjammer why didn't our boys receive any award? Their names were not on the list during the awards evening on Pakistan Day.


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## Windjammer

The Diplomat said:


> @Windjammer why didn't our boys receive any award? Their names were not on the list during the awards evening on Pakistan Day.


Hostilities are not over yet, maybe they can add to their tally.

The words of this former Indian Air Marshal should clear any doubts.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116925747514548224

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## NA71

From Last day or so, Indians on social media have launched a conclusion that despite announcement of award to be given to Hassan Siddique, he disappeared after 27/2, no media appearance, not even on March 23 award ceremony, so he was the F16 pilot which was shot down by WC abhi....

I think, Hassan is now Forth such pilot declared by Indians. This recent drive from Indians may result his media appearance in couple of days....

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## Cuirassier

NA71 said:


> From Last day or so, Indians on social media have launched a conclusion that despite announcement of award to be given to Hassan Siddique, he disappeared after 27/2, no media appearance, not even on March 23 award ceremony, so he was the F16 pilot which was shot down by WC abhi....
> 
> I think, Hassan is now Forth such pilot declared by Indians. This recent drive from Indians may result his media appearance in couple of days....


Even though there was a picture of him with two others just after the strike and shootdown.

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## Viny

Windjammer said:


> Hostilities are not over yet, maybe they can add to their tally.
> 
> The words of this former Indian Air Marshal should clear any doubts.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116925747514548224



Indian Air Marshal must have came back from future, an avid vedic time traveller






Video was posted in 2015 and it was in reference of 1965 war.

Some people just hunt for any news to beat there drums...


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## The Eagle

NA71 said:


> From Last day or so, Indians on social media have launched a conclusion that despite announcement of award to be given to Hassan Siddique, he disappeared after 27/2, no media appearance, not even on March 23 award ceremony, so he was the F16 pilot which was shot down by WC abhi....
> 
> I think, Hassan is now Forth such pilot declared by Indians. This recent drive from Indians may result his media appearance in couple of days....



The list will go on knowing Indian approach therefore, we will have to wait till India says that they are done with claims & then we will make some videos/pictures to bust the bubble yet again. In fact, Hassan was seen celebrating right after the clash.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Maxpane said:


> both are slayers of IAF. thats all


They have joined the luminous list of the warriors who have been perfecting this art since Kutubeddin Aybek...

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## NA71

Viny said:


> Indian Air Marshal must have came back from future, an avid vedic time traveller
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video was posted in 2015 and it was in reference of 1965 war.
> 
> Some people just hunt for any news to beat there drums...


you are right...damn we posted the remarks made for 1965 war ....but was 27/2 air battle any different? those comments made for 65 ...still valid for 27/2.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

KeyBORED Warrior said:


> Keep the controversy, let the indians scratch their heads, keep them guessing. Those who need to know, already know and are more fearful now. That's the most important thing. The rest is irrelevant.


Forget about Pak, their crafts are now crushing on the Moon too!! This much from the Sheyatin whose capabilities are being curtailed in this phase!!! The folks who worship Iblis are in troubles now....

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## NA71

The Eagle said:


> The list will go on knowing Indian approach therefore, we will have to wait till India says that they are done with claims & then we will make some videos/pictures to bust the bubble yet again. In fact, Hassan was seen celebrating right after the clash.



Sir, they will never stop claiming ... I see highly educated Indians following the same narrative without even giving it a second thought. Their media has already ceased their thought process . They are not gonna accept failures-Balakot op & Failed interception on next day. The electronic / print media still pumping in false stories fake analysis almost every day.


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## Maxpane

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> They have joined the luminous list of the warriors who have been perfecting this art since Kutubeddin Aybek...


No doubt brother generation after generation

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## Thorough Pro

PAF official statement was out the same day via ISPR, PAF chose not to mention the names of the pilots involved.



Ali_Baba said:


> What we are lacking is an offical statement from the PAF. Until we get that, these theories and inconsistencies will float around and undermine the effort. This is a perfect example of it!!!
> 
> What aircraft was he flying at the time? Which missile made the kill ?
> 
> If it was the JF17, does thast imply all of the AMRAAMs missed their mark?


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## baqai

but atleast we should know who has confirmed kill on the Bison :p the second one is "disputed" as we dont' have "public evidence"


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## Khanivore

I found a strong piece of evidence that backs up PAF's claim of 2nd kill. Confirmation of Su-30MKI kill? I strongly believe so, considering India Today's anchor confirmed Su-30 shot down. The Mi-17 was probably out there on SAR when it got shot down.

Have a read...

*IAF aircraft crashes in Budgam district of Kashmir*

*The jet crashed in an open field near Garend Kalaan village in Budgam at 10.05 am, the officials said. *

ET Online| Updated: Feb 27, 2019, 01.19 PM IST

A day after the Indian Air Force's (IAF) strike in Pakistan, an IAF aircraft crashed on Wednesday in Budgam district of Jammu and Kashmir, killing two people, officials said. As per initial reports, the aircraft crashed due to technical failure.

Officials in Srinagar described the downed aircraft as a jet, which crashed in an open field near Garend Kalaan village in Budgam at 10.05 am. Other officials in New Delhi said it was an Mi-17 helicopter. The conflicting reports could not be immediately reconciled.

The jet crashed in an open field near Garend Kalaan village in Budgam at 10.05 am, the officials said.

The Srinagar officials said the aircraft broke into two and caught fire immediately.

The identity of the two deceased could not be confirmed immediately, they said.

Meanwhile, in a separate report, officials said that Pakistani jets violated Indian air space in J-K's Poonch and Rajouri sectors, drop bombs on way out. Officials said at least three Pakistan combat aircraft entered the India air space.

As part of precautionary measure, civilian air traffic has been stopped at various airports. Airports in Jammu, Srinagar and Leh have been put on high alert. Flights to Jammu, Srinagar, Leh, Amritsar, Pathankot, Chandigadh, Dehradun and Dharamshala have been suspended till further notice.

This has happened a day after Indian Air Force conducted a preemptive strike in Balakot, Pakistan killing a large number of terrorists. Pakistan had warned India of a "surprise" yesterday after Indian strike.
_
(Inputs from PTI)_

Source

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## mingle

NA71 said:


> you are right...damn we posted the remarks made for 1965 war ....but was 27/2 air battle any different? those comments made for 65 ...still valid for 27/2.


Denzel keeler is another fake Hero of IAF like Nirmal sikon the plane he shot flown by Yousaf Ali khan and was fly worthy next day but this fella got veer chaker even IAF knows that saber made back home a nation who has no history depands on fiction.


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## Arsalan 345

we should tell the world about second pilot.iaf radar data can be trusted but sudden disappearance of target means either destroyed or take cover behind obstacle like a mountain.also the data shared by iaf is still pictures and not complete video.

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## Khanivore

Arsalan 345 said:


> we should tell the world about second pilot.iaf radar data can be trusted but sudden disappearance of target means either destroyed or take cover behind obstacle like a mountain.also the data shared by iaf is still pictures and not complete video.


They're handmade sketches, not actual radar screenshots. You can easily notice the flaws in the lines, and circles and above all, one sketch is titled:  "AIR SITUATION". 

Fakery. Nothing less.

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## litman

mingle said:


> Denzel keeler is another fake Hero of IAF like Nirmal sikon the plane he shot flown by Yousaf Ali khan and was fly worthy next day but this fella got veer chaker even IAF knows that saber made back home a nation who has no history depands on fiction.


indians are habitual liers . its in their genes. this is the first time our generation has seen the reality of their fake claims. now i am sure there isnt much truth in the history books of the previous wars written by indian authors. they make heroes who shoot down just a single jet and present him as war ace even if a pilot locks a pakistani jet they give him medal. next time they will award the pilots for just seeing any paf jet performing in an air show.


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## Adam_Khan

Windjammer said:


> Contrary to what's been generally reported, it now transpires that Squadron Leader Hassan Siddiqui is the pilot who hit the Indian SU-30 MKI. while it was Wing Commander Nouman who shot down the MiG-21. Albeit, both pilots wanted to remain out of the limelight but it was due to the high value kill, that S/L Hassan was repeatedly getting mentioned.,
> 
> View attachment 553133
> 
> 
> View attachment 553145


Windy so this means both were viper kills right.

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## Tom_Cruise

Windjammer said:


> Hostilities are not over yet, maybe they can add to their tally.
> 
> The words of this former Indian Air Marshal should clear any doubts.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116925747514548224



You loose all credibility by posting that.


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## Ahassan

Riaz Hussain said:


> That is the million dollar question, who and where is the second pilot? As long as we don't release info about the second pilot, any rational thinking human will think we are hiding something and that something seems to be that the second pilot is the F-16 pilot who got shot down. The moment India put radar images, they have literally given all the info they have, without compromising their intelligence capabilities. India cannot give proof of wreckage because the wreckage is in our territory. The only thing they have is radar images which they have given out. Now the ball is in our court. If we don't give out info of the second pilot, we have lost the F-16 battle.



they can verily access the satellite images ...


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## Cuirassier

You're ruling out the possibility of misreporting, especially when it was corrected by the ISPR. If you really believe that an F-16 was downed despite no evidence, you're a victim of paranoia and low self esteem.


Riaz Hussain said:


> That is the million dollar question, who and where is the second pilot? As long as we don't release info about the second pilot, any rational thinking human will think we are hiding something and that something seems to be that the second pilot is the F-16 pilot who got shot down. The moment India put radar images, they have literally given all the info they have, without compromising their intelligence capabilities. India cannot give proof of wreckage because the wreckage is in our territory. The only thing they have is radar images which they have given out. Now the ball is in our court. If we don't give out info of the second pilot, we have lost the F-16 battle.


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## Ali_Baba

Riaz Hussain said:


> That is the million dollar question, who and where is the second pilot? As long as we don't release info about the second pilot, any rational thinking human will think we are hiding something and that something seems to be that the second pilot is the F-16 pilot who got shot down. The moment India put radar images, they have literally given all the info they have, without compromising their intelligence capabilities. India cannot give proof of wreckage because the wreckage is in our territory. The only thing they have is radar images which they have given out. Now the ball is in our court. If we don't give out info of the second pilot, we have lost the F-16 battle.



This is complete and utter rubbish...... trully garbage level attempt at propagating a false Indian narrative.

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## Khanivore

Riaz Hussain said:


> That is the million dollar question, who and where is the second pilot? As long as we don't release info about the second pilot, any rational thinking human will think we are hiding something and that something seems to be that the second pilot is the F-16 pilot who got shot down. The moment India put radar images, they have literally given all the info they have, without compromising their intelligence capabilities. India cannot give proof of wreckage because the wreckage is in our territory. The only thing they have is radar images which they have given out. Now the ball is in our court. If we don't give out info of the second pilot, we have lost the F-16 battle.


I can't believe I just read this....


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## Enigma SIG

Riaz Hussain said:


> That is the million dollar question, who and where is the second pilot? As long as we don't release info about the second pilot, any rational thinking human will think we are hiding something and that something seems to be that the second pilot is the F-16 pilot who got shot down. The moment India put radar images, they have literally given all the info they have, without compromising their intelligence capabilities. India cannot give proof of wreckage because the wreckage is in our territory. The only thing they have is radar images which they have given out. Now the ball is in our court. If we don't give out info of the second pilot, we have lost the F-16 battle.


Indian masquerading as a Pakistani?


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## waz

Riaz Hussain said:


> India cannot give proof of wreckage because the wreckage is in our territory. The only thing they have is radar images which they have given out. Now the ball is in our court. If we don't give out info of the second pilot, we have lost the F-16 battle.



*You do realise that had there been any wreckage it would have been videoed, had photos taken of it and the locals in AJK would have been on it like a shot. The fact they were there before the military was, regarding the Mig-21 is telling. *There simply is no wreckage and it's time to put this story to bed.
The radar images mean squat, as many experts outside the Pak/Ind scenario have pointed out.
It's also no coincidence that a IAF plane crashed in Jammu at the time of the engagement, what about that?

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## Riaz Hussain

Ahassan said:


> they can verily access the satellite images ...


Satellite Images are low resolution images. And if the crash happened near tree cover, then nothing will be visible.
I mean just release the damn info about the second pilot, WTF is the delay?



Ali_Baba said:


> This is complete and utter rubbish...... trully garbage level attempt at propagating a false Indian narrative.


Then lets prove it is false. Lets release the info about the second pilot. Why are we scared?



TF141 said:


> You're ruling out the possibility of misreporting, especially when it was corrected by the ISPR. If you really believe that an F-16 was downed despite no evidence, you're a victim of paranoia and low self esteem.


You do not go to the media and even give *SPECIFIC *details that the *pilot is injured and is in the hospital*!! And following that up with the PM saying the same as well.

See all the theories floating around that
# the pilot is israeli
# its not being released because it will cause a war

and what not rubbish! lets release the info about second pilot and lets be done with it!!

I mean are we brain damaged? No airforce in the entire world has shot down a Su-27 family of fighters. NO ONE HA SHOT DOWN!! *PAF IS THE FIRST AIRFORCE IN THE WORLD TO SHOOT DOWN A FLANKER!!* And that too an Advanced Super Flanker with a PESA radar and with other western avionics. DO YOU EVEN REALIZE THE GOLD MINE WE ARE SITTING ON? IF WE RELEASE THE INFO OF THE SECOND PILOT, WE WILL BE REMEMBERED THROUGHOUT HISTORY AS THE FIRST AIRFORCE ON THIS PLANET TO EVER SHOOT DOWN A SUPER FLANKER. BUT WE ARE NOT RELEASING THE SECOND PILOT INFO!
No one in the right mind would pass up on an opportunity like this. No one is this stupid to pass up on an opportunity like this. Either we release the info about the second pilot, or we screwed up big time losing the first ever F-16 in an air-air kill that too to an 1955 design MiG-21!

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## Riddick

@Riaz Hussain its hard to hide Indian in yourself isnt it lol

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## Riaz Hussain

waz said:


> You do realise that had there been any wreckage it would have been videoed, had photos taken of it and the locals in AJK would have been on it like a shot. The fact they were there before the military was regarding the Mig-21 is telling. There simply is no wreckage and it's time to put this story to bed.
> The radar images mean squat, as many experts outside the Pak/Ind scenario have pointed out.


Kills are not always assigned only when there are wreakages found. Kills are also awarded with radar images and pilot and ground witness testimony. If kills are only awarded with only gun cam and wreakages then more than half the kills throughout history would have to be taken off. And there are lots of no mans land in that area.
Lets release the second pilot info! Or we need to get a clarification on why the DGISPR and the PM mis-reported! And also following up that the second pilot dies in the hospital! Who was in the hospital? Who gave that into about the pilot in the hospital. We need clarity.



Riddick said:


> @Riaz Hussain its hard to hide Indian in yourself isnt it lol


Its called critical thinking. Don't believe every thing anyone says. Question it.


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## Ahassan

Riaz Hussain said:


> Satellite Images are low resolution images. And if the crash happened near tree cover, then nothing will be visible.
> I mean just release the damn info about the second pilot, WTF is the delay?
> 
> 
> Then lets prove it is false. Lets release the info about the second pilot. Why are we scared?
> 
> 
> You do not go to the media and even give *SPECIFIC *details that the *pilot is injured and is in the hospital*!! And following that up with the PM saying the same as well.
> 
> See all the theories floating around that
> # the pilot is israeli
> # its not being released because it will cause a war
> 
> and what not rubbish! lets release the info about second pilot and lets be done with it!!
> 
> I mean are we brain damaged? No airforce in the entire world has shot down a Su-27 family of fighters. NO ONE HA SHOT DOWN!! *PAF IS THE FIRST AIRFORCE IN THE WORLD TO SHOOT DOWN A FLANKER!!* And that too an Advanced Super Flanker with a PESA radar and with other western avionics. DO YOU EVEN REALIZE THE GOLD MINE WE ARE SITTING ON? IF WE RELEASE THE INFO OF THE SECOND PILOT, WE WILL BE REMEMBERED THROUGHOUT HISTORY AS THE FIRST AIRFORCE ON THIS PLANET TO EVER SHOOT DOWN A SUPER FLANKER. BUT WE ARE NOT RELEASING THE SECOND PILOT INFO!
> No one in the right mind would pass up on an opportunity like this. No one is this stupid to pass up on an opportunity like this. Either we release the info about the second pilot, or we screwed up big time losing the first ever F-16 in an air-air kill that too to an 1955 design MiG-21!




idk if you know how satellite images work .... but if there was any wreckage they would have shown even the small parts of wreckage ... or even the burnt field....


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## Riddick

so you want to say americans lied when they counted Pak F16s ?


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## waz

Riaz Hussain said:


> Kills are not always assigned only when there are wreakages found. Kills are also awarded with radar images and pilot and ground witness testimony. If kills are only awarded with only gun cam and wreakages then more than half the kills throughout history would have to be taken off. And there are lots of no mans land in that area.
> Lets release the second pilot info! Or we need to get a clarification on why the DGISPR and the PM mis-reported! And also following up that the second pilot dies in the hospital! Who was in the hospital? Who gave that into about the pilot in the hospital. We need clarity.



You need to first look at the area of operations, wreckage would have been found on the *VERY DAY *of that engagement like it was with the Mig-21. The area is way too small and even the IAF images show the range of operations over the said area before the F-16 'disappeared'. There's no hiding that. 
Yes all kills don't need wreckage but that is a sub point, considering the parameters you outlined from other conflicts are simply not here, the most obvious one being that these engagements did not happen in 'no mans land'. 
The second pilot, if he's around is in India, you're never going to get it. That's why I believe the whole thing should have ended with the fact that the Mig went down and so did their chopper. 
As for the rest, misreporting happens in virtually every conflict and I can bring up literally hundreds of examples. Confusion was pretty much evident during the opening stages of the conflict hence all the contradictory reports. 
The fact remains that no F-16 went down, nor did any Pakistani pilot, and that's been confirmed by numerous third party entities.

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## Cuirassier

Riaz Hussain said:


> Satellite Images are low resolution images. And if the crash happened near tree cover, then nothing will be visible.
> I mean just release the damn info about the second pilot, WTF is the delay?
> 
> 
> Then lets prove it is false. Lets release the info about the second pilot. Why are we scared?
> 
> 
> You do not go to the media and even give *SPECIFIC *details that the *pilot is injured and is in the hospital*!! And following that up with the PM saying the same as well.
> 
> See all the theories floating around that
> # the pilot is israeli
> # its not being released because it will cause a war
> 
> and what not rubbish! lets release the info about second pilot and lets be done with it!!
> 
> I mean are we brain damaged? No airforce in the entire world has shot down a Su-27 family of fighters. NO ONE HA SHOT DOWN!! *PAF IS THE FIRST AIRFORCE IN THE WORLD TO SHOOT DOWN A FLANKER!!* And that too an Advanced Super Flanker with a PESA radar and with other western avionics. DO YOU EVEN REALIZE THE GOLD MINE WE ARE SITTING ON? IF WE RELEASE THE INFO OF THE SECOND PILOT, WE WILL BE REMEMBERED THROUGHOUT HISTORY AS THE FIRST AIRFORCE ON THIS PLANET TO EVER SHOOT DOWN A SUPER FLANKER. BUT WE ARE NOT RELEASING THE SECOND PILOT INFO!
> No one in the right mind would pass up on an opportunity like this. No one is this stupid to pass up on an opportunity like this. Either we release the info about the second pilot, or we screwed up big time losing the first ever F-16 in an air-air kill that too to an 1955 design MiG-21!


What even man, no missile was fired by the MiG-21, neither was there any sighting of a second jet's remains, nor any pilot found in the hospital. PAF is much more professional than any other armed forces branch and your claim of them being dishonest in this case is false. Too much conspiracy theories make you crazy.

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## majid mehmood

Riaz Hussain said:


> Satellite Images are low resolution images. And if the crash happened near tree cover, then nothing will be visible.
> I mean just release the damn info about the second pilot, WTF is the delay?


satellite images are not low resolution they are quite high and even if it was hidden under a trees, fire from a plane could be easily geolocated by thermal imaging 
Looking at your messages you look like a deluded Indian

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## TheTallGuy

As i am able to understand - 1 x aircraft immediately crashed after take off from Srinager AFB pilot Ejected. Helicopter(MI-17V5) take off to collect the pilot able to do so coming back to Srinager AFB gets shotdown by IAF SAMs deployed. 1 x MiG-21Bison(Abhinandan) makes it all the way to LOC with Su-30MKI cover, Mirage 2000i that were CAPing alos couldnt do much ..1 x MiG-21BISON is shotdown as it cross LOC. pilot is captured. Now Su-30MKI Formation of 2 aircraft which were flying very High(35-40K) also got engaged. 1 x Su-30MKI gets hit crashes inside IOK. crew did eject.one was injured and one was Ok one landed on Indian Side. Injured pilot landed in Pakistan Side. which later died. so there is no other wreckage on Pakistani Side.

Now Why DG ISPR did tell this much later may be 4th Mar or 6th Mar in interview the 2 x pilot(crew) is Dead. Why should be doubts about it. One thing is sure SU-30MKI is dead! sure as sun rises daily!

Everything will be open after April-19. i guess...


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## waz

Riaz Hussain said:


> Its the LOC, its dotted with no-mans land with steep cliffs and army only restricted areas.
> Releasing an official statement and going back on it is a big deal. DGISPR and the Prime Minister should have given clarification! Without clarification, it all looks very very fishy. If the info about the pilot in the hospital is unconfirmed, then we should have said "we have initial reports of a second pilot in a hospital, we will provide you with additional details when we confirm the same", but nooo we went ahead and categorically confirmed that "we have a second pilot in the CMH". THAT IS A BIG DEAL! That was a confirmed info. Since the pilot is heavily injured and presumably unconscious we might have assumed he was one of theirs, is the fear lurking in every ones mind.



*My family live near the LOC and AJK is my ancestral land*. The people can go pretty much anywhere, and there's no real 'no mans land', the cliffs are regularly climbed by herders dude.... You're also ignoring the fact that the *people got there before the army did* regarding the Mig!
The reports were confusion and it's simple to understand this and such events have occurred at the highest levels in other countries e.g. US recent conflicts. 
There's no fear here and people are not even speculating anymore about this due to the complete absence of proof of any sort. When you have key Indian allies such as Christine Fair who does have access to high level military attaches also rubbishing Indian claims, you need to ask yourself why you're still going on about it.

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## majid mehmood

Riaz Hussain said:


> Wish the other 2 missiles were also whole missiles. The missiles warhead was missing in atleast 1.


look at these picture, the missing warhead is burned and flattened out


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## Khanivore

majid mehmood said:


> satellite images are not low resolution they are quite high and even if it was hidden under a trees, fire from a plane could be easily geolocated by thermal imaging
> Looking at your messages you look like a deluded Indian


My thoughts exactly. He's towing the Indian mantra.

Mods, I'm sorry but it's just so obvious.

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## Vortex

Riaz Hussain said:


> Satellite Images are low resolution images. And if the crash happened near tree cover, then nothing will be visible.
> I mean just release the damn info about the second pilot, WTF is the delay?
> 
> 
> Then lets prove it is false. Lets release the info about the second pilot. Why are we scared?
> 
> 
> You do not go to the media and even give *SPECIFIC *details that the *pilot is injured and is in the hospital*!! And following that up with the PM saying the same as well.
> 
> See all the theories floating around that
> # the pilot is israeli
> # its not being released because it will cause a war
> 
> and what not rubbish! lets release the info about second pilot and lets be done with it!!
> 
> I mean are we brain damaged? No airforce in the entire world has shot down a Su-27 family of fighters. NO ONE HA SHOT DOWN!! *PAF IS THE FIRST AIRFORCE IN THE WORLD TO SHOOT DOWN A FLANKER!!* And that too an Advanced Super Flanker with a PESA radar and with other western avionics. DO YOU EVEN REALIZE THE GOLD MINE WE ARE SITTING ON? IF WE RELEASE THE INFO OF THE SECOND PILOT, WE WILL BE REMEMBERED THROUGHOUT HISTORY AS THE FIRST AIRFORCE ON THIS PLANET TO EVER SHOOT DOWN A SUPER FLANKER. BUT WE ARE NOT RELEASING THE SECOND PILOT INFO!
> No one in the right mind would pass up on an opportunity like this. No one is this stupid to pass up on an opportunity like this. Either we release the info about the second pilot, or we screwed up big time losing the first ever F-16 in an air-air kill that too to an 1955 design MiG-21!




You are forgetting the geopolitical implications of confirming it.

Especially when geopolitical game is moving, changing, like a chess game.

If we confirm we have splashed Su30, we could see a stop in the evolving relations we could have with Russia.

If we confirm that Ef sola was splashed then we could destroy What is left about our relation with USA.

By not revealing whatever the reality is, we are playing with both USA and Russia. At least on public front. I think they know what happened really. India is irrelevant in this matter now.

Update : my personal opinion is that we didn’t loss any jet. Why ? Because if it was the case then, indians would have strike again especially with Modi running campaign for election. But now.... “cough cough”... their supadupa Su30 cooked with indian spices, I mean the sauce MKI, is nowhere seen again near our border.


I could be wrong in my analysis of course.

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## Windjammer

Regardless of who was the second pilot or how many parachutes were seen that day, i can say with conviction that forget F-16, PAF didn't even lose a Mushak on the 27th February.
Remember so far all the press briefings have been given by the ISPR, at some point PAF plans to give all the details.

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## Taimur Khurram

I've heard some say that this wreckage can't be from a MiG-21Bis, and that it seems to come from a Su-30MKI instead. The NLI picked this wreckage up. 

What do you guys think?


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## Vortex

Taimur Khurram said:


> View attachment 553336
> 
> 
> I've heard some say that this wreckage can't be from a MiG-21Bis, and that it seems to come from a Su-30MKI instead. The NLI picked this wreckage up.
> 
> What do you guys think?



Which part of the MKI it could be ?


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## Windjammer

Taimur Khurram said:


> View attachment 553336
> 
> 
> I've heard some say that this wreckage can't be from a MiG-21Bis, and that it seems to come from a Su-30MKI instead. The NLI picked this wreckage up.
> 
> What do you guys think?


The SU-30 was a BVR kill and it reportedly crashed on the Indian side of LOC.

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## Cuirassier

Riaz Hussain said:


> Again, satellite images cannot tell you if it gets hidden by tree cover or if the wreakage is split up spread over a wide area. Satellite images have their limitations.
> 
> 
> It was just a report. No names and its not official. DG-ISPR media briefing and IAF media briefing is official.
> 
> 
> Its the LOC, its dotted with no-mans land with steep cliffs and army only restricted areas.
> Releasing an official statement and going back on it is a big deal. DGISPR and the Prime Minister should have given clarification! Without clarification, it all looks very very fishy. If the info about the pilot in the hospital is unconfirmed, then we should have said "we have initial reports of a second pilot in a hospital, we will provide you with additional details when we confirm the same", but nooo we went ahead and categorically confirmed that "we have a second pilot in the CMH". THAT IS A BIG DEAL! That was a confirmed info. Since the pilot is heavily injured and presumably unconscious we might have assumed he was one of theirs, is the fear lurking in every ones mind.
> 
> 
> Wish the other 2 missiles were also whole missiles. The missiles warhead was missing in atleast 1.


The other two missiles were damaged due to impact of own missile explosive and during the crash. The seekers were all found from the wreckage which means none of the missiles were launched.

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## litman

it became easier for india to hide its su 30 loss as they also lost an Mi 17. those sukhoi pilots who died in su 30 crash were claimed as they died in heli crash .

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## Evora

litman said:


> it became easier for india to hide its su 30 loss as they also lost an Mi 17. those sukhoi pilots who died in su 30 crash were claimed as they died in heli crash .


Indian are more clever and better script writer than your imagination. They already staged in Avantipura car accident at 3:30 am when there was no traffic at all at this time where sqdn Leader of su30 died with other fellows in road accident... wicked.

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## NA71

And also note that Indians have successfully diverted the debate from IAF performance on 27/2 to F16 hit ...at least Indian Janta has forgot about overall SU-30 performance in particular. No one asking them to take journalists to the site where PAF dropped bombs ...

They continue to prop up new stories every 2nd day...just like yesterday, WC Hassan Siddique was in story and today Russians are getting know-how from IAF for their evading AIM125c... Sham ko ISPR ka song Chori kar liya....keep us all busy.

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## mingle

NA71 said:


> And also note that Indians have successfully diverted the debate from IAF performance on 27/2 to F16 hit ...at least Indian Janta has forgot about overall SU-30 performance in particular. No one asking them to take journalists to the site where PAF dropped bombs ...
> 
> They continue to prop up new stories every 2nd day...just like yesterday, WC Hassan Siddique was in story and today Russians are getting know-how from IAF for their evading AIM125c... Sham ko ISPR ka song Chori kar liya....keep us all busy.


There r two reasons one to divert attention from su 30 kill and second domastic consumption india is full of idiots who gona Beleive on this .they pop story to fil the void Google Algorithm works on latest not on facts.


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## PakShaheen79

Both India and Pakistan will strictly stick to their respective narratives (PAF's claim of downing a Flanker for the very first time in A2A Combat while IAF's claim of downing an F-16 for the very first time in A2A Combat) ... People will have to choose their own reality. Proofs or no Proofs. Indian public will be content with whatever IAF tells them and that's pretty good outcome for everyone in India. BJP/RSS, IAF, Establishment and Media. Same is true in case of PAF and Pakistani awam. PAF has succeeded in its proof of shooting down a Flanker as much as IAF has succeeded in providing proof of a F-16's shooting down.
For me, a Mig-21 and Mi-17 destruction along with hitting 6 ground targets with precision is very satisfactory performance but if some day PAF can establish beyond a reasonable doubt that indeed a flanker (or any other IAF jet) was hit by AMRAAM, I will never complain.

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## pkd




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## Amaa'n

Riaz Hussain said:


> If we don't give out info of the second pilot, we have lost the F-16 battle.


Says who? sorry dear but you can't speak for everyone else. No independent media is buying IAF's story nor are they interested in second pilot. Everyone is picking on ISPR's initial press release while no one refers to second interview he gave to an Anchorperson, where he said that second pilot is DEAD. 

IAF has shown nothing but shit, because they got nothing....

Tell me something, how was F-16 shot down?

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## NA71

The Last tweet of DG-ISPR on 27/2 (in which he showed 04 missiles of MiG21) that tweet was ended " and we have more proofs" .....similarly, on 27/2 presser by DG-ISPR said...."iss ki video ham abhi aap say share karein gay".....

that two parts are actually itching me


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## Arsalan 345

Riaz Hussain said:


> That is the million dollar question, who and where is the second pilot? As long as we don't release info about the second pilot, any rational thinking human will think we are hiding something and that something seems to be that the second pilot is the F-16 pilot who got shot down. The moment India put radar images, they have literally given all the info they have, without compromising their intelligence capabilities. India cannot give proof of wreckage because the wreckage is in our territory. The only thing they have is radar images which they have given out. Now the ball is in our court. If we don't give out info of the second pilot, we have lost the F-16 battle.



americans will reveal if we lost f-16.it could be a story by iaf but radar data don't lie.one person said that it could be electronic decoy.it's possible.i don't see any su-30 hit.i don't believe that they lost su-30.su-30 is a very big fighter jet.you can't hide it.


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## Riddick

of course they can hide su30 hit lol have them shown even 1 pic of the site where paf bombed ??


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## Arsalan 345

Riddick said:


> of course they can hide su30 hit lol have them shown even 1 pic of the site where paf bombed ??



i don't see any su-30 video.i don't believe.su-30s turned cold when amraams were fired towards them.f-16s on central position fired amraams towards approaching su-30s from south.f-16s were at 30 to 40000 feet.other group of f-16s on south were at 10 to 15000 feet which was ambush for su-30s.migs from north wasn't engaged by jf-17s.jf-17s was busy with indian mirages.that's why migs went through straight to our central primary package f-16s.one mig violated airspace and shot down.we also seen the video of another jet going down.it was at low altitude as compare to indian mig.we don't know who was flying that plane and which airforce operated that plane.it's a mystery.


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## Fledgingwings

AfrazulMandal said:


> Did the Su pilot join PAF or will he be returned?


No he wants to enjoy dewaali here first


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## Riddick

@Arsalan 345 another indian lol

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## majid mehmood

Arsalan 345 said:


> i don't see any su-30 video.i don't believe.su-30s turned cold when amraams were fired towards them.f-16s on central position fired amraams towards approaching su-30s from south.f-16s were at 30 to 40000 feet.other group of f-16s on south were at 10 to 15000 feet which was ambush for su-30s.migs from north wasn't engaged by jf-17s.jf-17s was busy with indian mirages.that's why migs went through straight to our central primary package f-16s.one mig violated airspace and shot down.we also seen the video of another jet going down.it was at low altitude as compare to indian mig.we don't know who was flying that plane and which airforce operated that plane.it's a mystery.


how do you know su30s where su30 were and why jf17 was going only for mirages you are being too delusional
as for the aircraft falling from sky remember mig21 half wing fell some kilometers away from its location and their were 2 parachute one was abhi's and the other was drogue chute so altogether 3 things were spotted and reported

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## mingle

Another indiot was tweeting that they super power how u debate with these dums probably sitting open field tiolet and tweeting same time. After seeing theior mental capacity I believe Pak has nothing to worry about.

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## Windjammer

Arsalan 345 said:


> i don't see any su-30 video.i don't believe.su-30s turned cold when amraams were fired towards them.f-16s on central position fired amraams towards approaching su-30s from south.f-16s were at 30 to 40000 feet.other group of f-16s on south were at 10 to 15000 feet which was ambush for su-30s.migs from north wasn't engaged by jf-17s.jf-17s was busy with indian mirages.that's why migs went through straight to our central primary package f-16s.one mig violated airspace and shot down.we also seen the video of another jet going down.it was at low altitude as compare to indian mig.we don't know who was flying that plane and which airforce operated that plane.it's a mystery.


And you have concluded all this due to the radar images shown by the Indians, since these color crane drawings float your boat, can you even comprehend which radar in the world can name an aircraft.
And tell the Indian jokers that AMRAAMs are fired by F-16s , it's not a piece of F-16.

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## Arsalan 345

Riddick said:


> @Arsalan 345 another indian lol



Lol



Windjammer said:


> And you have concluded all this due to the radar images shown by the Indians, since these color crane drawings float your boat, can you even comprehend which radar in the world can name an aircraft.
> And tell the Indian jokers that AMRAAMs are fired by F-16s , it's not a piece of F-16.



Windy don't mind.i have seen a video and matched it with the iaf provided photos.it clearly matched.have you seen the video where one jet was shot down but in the background you can see another jet at high altitude turning towards left side? That left side jet was hit later near mangla reservoir.abhi was seen near a stream so the spot is clearly sabz kot.other jet near tandar fall down before abhi jet.video matched description.yes I know iaf can make fake images.f-16s fired amraams on su-30 which went cold to avoid missile hit.they didn't even cross the loc.we must provide proof to the world now.



majid mehmood said:


> how do you know su30s where su30 were and why jf17 was going only for mirages you are being too delusional
> as for the aircraft falling from sky remember mig21 half wing fell some kilometers away from its location and their were 2 parachute one was abhi's and the other was drogue chute so altogether 3 things were spotted and reported



I am not sure about anything but clearly we need to analyze videos again and again also your statement doesn't make any sense.abhinandan can't fly a twin seat mig-21.mig-21 only carry 1 pilot,not two.



mingle said:


> Another indiot was tweeting that they super power how u debate with these dums probably sitting open field tiolet and tweeting same time. After seeing theior mental capacity I believe Pak has nothing to worry about.



Meri jaan I am not indian.


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## untitled

Riddick said:


> @Arsalan 345 another indian lol





Arsalan 345 said:


> Lol





Arsalan 345 said:


> Meri jaan I am not indian.



@Arsalan 345 why do you have a Flanker in your profile pic?


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## Arsalan 345

member.exe said:


> @Arsalan 345 why do you have a Flanker in your profile pic?



Because I like this picture that's why.lol please don't think of me as your enemy or something.my job is to analyze data and nothing else.i may be wrong.there are also many senior members here.i don't want to fight here.


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## baqai

litman said:


> it became easier for india to hide its su 30 loss as they also lost an Mi 17. those sukhoi pilots who died in su 30 crash were claimed as they died in heli crash .



i wouldn't be surprised if it was deliberately shot down to cover the other crash


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## untitled

Arsalan 345 said:


> Because I like this picture that's why.lol


All this time I thought it was an F-14 until I tool a closer look. Anyway no worries. You can choose any picture you like. 


Arsalan 345 said:


> please don't think of me as your enemy or something.my job is to analyze data and nothing else


You may do so and draw your own conclusions and of course you are entitled to your opinion

------------------------------------
Just letting you know how other people too draw conclusions based on what they see

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## Arsalan 345

member.exe said:


> All this time I thought it was an F-14 until I tool a closer look. Anyway no worries. You can choose any picture you like.
> 
> You may do so and draw your own conclusions and of course you are entitled to your opinion
> 
> ------------------------------------
> Just letting you know how other people too draw conclusions based on what they see



I completely agree.i think it's better to tell the truth.it is fantastic if we hit su-30. It is sad if we lost our bird but life goes on.we should better prepare for many more incidents like this one because India will attack again.

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## Cuirassier

Some confused members still falling prey to baseless propaganda. You don't even trust your own narrative, despite all proof favouring our stance. What more should one say.

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## Riddick

@Arsalan 345 and which video are you talking about  ?? and you are an indian my friend,

there is no way Paf can hide a loss of F16,we all Pakistani know this,if something crashes in AJK,locals would have been there making videos much before army+ american counting of our F16 proves it,so dont come here with A false flag ID, the secons jet which crashed fell on IOK,

@TF141 bro this @Arsalan 345 is an indian

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## SIPRA

I have posted this comment also on another relevant thread.

It is now clear that both India and Pakistan are concealing as well as misstating about the incidences, which took place on February 27. On PDF, some of the posters are very anxious that all the facts of that day shall be laid bare, by the ISPR, without any distortion. I think that we fail to understand that we are still in a state of war with India. If ISPR is not clearing this fog and leaving certain aspects to the imagination of the people; there must be certain cogent reasons for that. We have to appreciate that the ISPR is not here to remove the anxieties and apprehensions, of each one of us. To them, if their narrative is accepted by the most of the Pakistanis; is, by and large, given credence by the international media; and has succeeded in putting India on back foot; then their broad objectives have been met successfully. What Indian state and media is selling to their own people, is not much of a concern for ISPR to address.

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## kursed

Arsalan 345 said:


> Windy don't mind.i have seen a video and matched it with the iaf provided photos.it clearly matched.have you seen the video where one jet was shot down but in the background you can see another jet at high altitude turning towards left side? That left side jet was hit later near mangla reservoir.abhi was seen near a stream so the spot is clearly sabz kot.other jet near tandar fall down before abhi jet.video matched description.yes I know iaf can make fake images.f-16s fired amraams on su-30 which went cold to avoid missile hit.they didn't even cross the loc.we must provide proof to the world now..


 You saw a video that matched with the radar picture - with no frame of reference. How? How do you know the physical location of the said aircrafts? The radar picture that Indians have put up, has been doctored to the point, where it did not even include PAF planes in the actual vicinity that they were. So what are you on about?

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## Windjammer

Arsalan 345 said:


> Windy don't mind.i have seen a video and matched it with the iaf provided photos.it clearly matched.have you seen the video where one jet was shot down but in the background you can see another jet at high altitude turning towards left side? That left side jet was hit later near mangla reservoir.abhi was seen near a stream so the spot is clearly sabz kot.other jet near tandar fall down before abhi jet.video matched description.yes I know iaf can make fake images.f-16s fired amraams on su-30 which went cold to avoid missile hit.they didn't even cross the loc.we must provide proof to the world now.


So while the rest of the world is ridiculing Indians on their flimsy evidence and cartoon like images, you OTOH were privileged to see some video. And even from some contrails in the sky, you were able to judge that those are over Mangla or did you actually witnessed a Heron or King Fisher nose dive into Mangla lake. Must say you are gifted dude.

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## SIPRA

Windjammer said:


> So while the rest of the world is ridiculing Indians on their flimsy evidence and cartoon like images, you OTOH were privileged to see some video. And even from some contrails in the sky, you were able to judge that those are over Mangla or did you actually witnessed a Heron or King Fisher nose dive into Mangla lake. Must say you are gifted dude.



May be a king fisher, with a trail of smoke, from its ***.



kursed said:


> You saw a video that matched with the radar picture - with no frame of reference. How? How do you know the physical location of the said aircrafts? The radar picture that Indians have put up, has been doctored to the point, where it did not even included PAF planes in the actual vicinity that they were. So what are you on about?



This man appears to be something greater than Albert Einstein. I doubt, whether he could set and establish a three dimensional frame of reference from a video.

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## PakEye

TF141 said:


> Some confused members still falling prey to baseless propaganda. You don't even trust your own narrative, despite all proof favouring our stance. What more should one say.


Its prove one and only thing who is misusing Pakistan Flag on their PDF identity.

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## Windjammer

RIWWIR said:


> May be a king fisher, with a trail of smoke, from its ***.
> 
> 
> 
> This man appears to be something greater than Albert Einstein. I doubt, whether he could set and establish a three dimensional frame of reference from a video.


I guess now we know where the Indians pulled out that piece of AMRAAM from.

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## Uzaie Aslam

Guys wtf is wrong with you people? Anyone who is questioning the Pakistani narrative is being labeled as an Indian? Wow, I thought this forum was open to such critique and analysis. Mods please post clear rules, are we allowed to question the Pakistani narrative or not?

Coming back to my second point, so many people here are quoting how could have the PAF hidden the f16 if it was shot down? True, agreed. How did the Indians hide their SU30? You cant have it both ways. I have posted before and I will say it again, for the common man, no su30 was shot. People with contacts in PAF would say otherwise but I speak as a common man

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## Khanivore

NA71 said:


> ... and today Russians are getting know-how from IAF for their evading AIM125c...


Really? Then how the heck does US see an ally in India?



Arsalan 345 said:


> i don't see any su-30 video.i don't believe.su-30s turned cold when amraams were fired towards them.f-16s on central position fired amraams towards approaching su-30s from south.f-16s were at 30 to 40000 feet.other group of f-16s on south were at 10 to 15000 feet which was ambush for su-30s.migs from north wasn't engaged by jf-17s.jf-17s was busy with indian mirages.that's why migs went through straight to our central primary package f-16s.one mig violated airspace and shot down.we also seen the video of another jet going down.it was at low altitude as compare to indian mig.we don't know who was flying that plane and which airforce operated that plane.it's a mystery.


What? You seriously sound like an Indian who was right there amidst the combat. You sound ridiculous. 

You know what _actually_ sounds more believable than your imaginative story? The words of an Indian TV anchor:

_"The big story breaking this morning, an F-16 of the Pakistani air force shot down a Su-30MKI.. the latest of India's air force." - Rahul Kanwal 02/27/19_

Now that's believable.


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## NA71

Khanivore said:


> Really? Then how the heck does US see an ally in India?
> .



Just Indian article ...dont take it seriously...Russians know what happened on DDAY.

Guys whats cooking ...have you heard abt SU34....


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## baqai

NA71 said:


> Just Indian article ...dont take it seriously...Russians know what happened on DDAY.
> 
> Guys whats *cocking* ...have you heard abt SU34....



heheheh i think you meant to say cooking :p anyways what about the SU-34's?


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## majid mehmood

Arsalan 345 said:


> I am not sure about anything but clearly we need to analyze videos again and again also your statement doesn't make any sense.abhinandan can't fly a twin seat mig-21.mig-21 only carry 1 pilot,not two.


you didn't get my point locals repoted 3 things were seen 2 parachutes were and usually A pilot have 2 chutes one for the ejection seat and one for the himself when he removes himself from the ejection seat so this brings a total of 3 things
1. aircraft itself 
2. Ejection seat with parachute
3. abhi with his parachute

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## Liquidmetal

Uzaie Aslam said:


> Guys wtf is wrong with you people? Anyone who is questioning the Pakistani narrative is being labeled as an Indian? Wow, I thought this forum was open to such critique and analysis. Mods please post clear rules, are we allowed to question the Pakistani narrative or not?
> 
> Coming back to my second point, so many people here are quoting how could have the PAF hidden the f16 if it was shot down? True, agreed. How did the Indians hide their SU30? You cant have it both ways. I have posted before and I will say it again, for the common man, no su30 was shot. People with contacts in PAF would say otherwise but I speak as a common man


I don't think people would make accusations if the arguments were cogent and based on facts and logic. The facts are that the Indians have presented very weak evidence for their side of the story and did not share any viable evidence to back their claims. Like many people have said F16s are not super weapons and are fallible aircraft and anyone can have a lucky hit! However, where is the evidence? Son the indian narrative falls flat on this demand. Neutral observers have stated the same. On the Pak side there are certain indisputable facts:

ISPR stated a fighter possibly 2 were shot down. ! has been presented so far. This raises Pak's credibility and perhaps 2 were shot down.

Pak side said no F16s were shot down - a major claim by the IAF. FP a world class publication that exists on the quality and credibility of it's reports pubslihed an art stating sources - unnamed but closely connected with the Pentagon have verified a count and have found no gaps in the F16 inventory. Such is the fierce reputation of this publication that even Vipin Narang backtracked and started to spout JF17 instead of F16. The IAF/IA was also monitoring other chatter and activity, no SAR activity was seen by them. They continue to peddle some random chatter of a dusra piranda but that could be anything and could refer to double counting or indeed a SU30 splash. 

The IAF have stated that the F16 kill has been attributed to the downed MIG21, all their radar images were nothing but sketches on a CAD/drawing package, so all their systems point to a kill by Abhi-fantasticTea Nandon, but with what? ISPR displayed all 4 missiles and a full bullets rack. Many Indians have stated the 4th missile is incomplete and hence was the one that exploded next to the F16, but all weapons were found on or around the doomed MIG21. 

So with all these facts, how can we continue to suggest that the PAF lost a F16 and is hiding this fact. How can it do that? and why would the USA hide that fact?

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## Uzaie Aslam

Liquidmetal said:


> I don't think people would make accusations if the arguments were cogent and based on facts and logic. The facts are that the Indians have presented very weak evidence for their side of the story and did not share any viable evidence to back their claims. Like many people have said F16s are not super weapons and are fallible aircraft and anyone can have a lucky hit! However, where is the evidence? Son the indian narrative falls flat on this demand. Neutral observers have stated the same. On the Pak side there are certain indisputable facts:
> 
> ISPR stated a fighter possibly 2 were shot down. ! has been presented so far. This raises Pak's credibility and perhaps 2 were shot down.
> 
> Pak side said no F16s were shot down - a major claim by the IAF. FP a world class publication that exists on the quality and credibility of it's reports pubslihed an art stating sources - unnamed but closely connected with the Pentagon have verified a count and have found no gaps in the F16 inventory. Such is the fierce reputation of this publication that even Vipin Narang backtracked and started to spout JF17 instead of F16. The IAF/IA was also monitoring other chatter and activity, no SAR activity was seen by them. They continue to peddle some random chatter of a dusra piranda but that could be anything and could refer to double counting or indeed a SU30 splash.
> 
> The IAF have stated that the F16 kill has been attributed to the downed MIG21, all their radar images were nothing but sketches on a CAD/drawing package, so all their systems point to a kill by Abhi-fantasticTea Nandon, but with what? ISPR displayed all 4 missiles and a full bullets rack. Many Indians have stated the 4th missile is incomplete and hence was the one that exploded next to the F16, but all weapons were found on or around the doomed MIG21.
> 
> So with all these facts, how can we continue to suggest that the PAF lost a F16 and is hiding this fact. How can it do that? and why would the USA hide that fact?



I agree with all of the information you presented. I am not saying our F16 was shot. Similarly, Indians are also claiming that their SU30 was not shot down. Since we are not presenting concrete evidence (pls paf wearing patches is not concrete evidence for me ) regarding the SU30, I would not get excited and stay neutral.

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## TheTallGuy

Guys, Seriously if we we had lost F-16s it would have been out by now. the money speaks you know much money is thrown around to get this scoop? even pilot names if possible...there is enough corruption to go around in Pakistan Media to break the news..do you seriously think no body in India would have offered best possible money just get something concrete...

look when they hide they hide but F-16 crash or shoot down can not remain hidden its been more the 40 days something would have leaked. RAW is active as well sniffing around. IAF knows no F-16 is shotdown just delay the inevitable as they know we have 2nd pilot or WSO (I think poor chap was WSO) because iAF is harping about single Su-30MKI by ranjikanth moves escaped 4-5 AMRAAMS and they will award him later...

end result there is no F-16 shot down..and yes sure as morning sun rises daily - Su-30MKI was bagged. If indian comeout and say we did not loose any Su-30MKI only then we will respond..

But you see there is no official clarification from IAF about that...did you noticed?

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## NA71

baqai said:


> heheheh i think you meant to say cooking :p anyways what about the SU-34's?


opsssssssss sorry.... yes it was "cooking"....thanks for pointing it out.

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## usman012

No f-16 was lost .That's clear now but i know India will reward their Pilot for dodging 5 AIM -120 missiles.


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## Shane

Khanivore said:


> Really? Then how the heck does US see an ally in India?
> 
> 
> What? You seriously sound like an Indian who was right there amidst the combat. You sound ridiculous.
> 
> You know what _actually_ sounds more believable than your imaginative story? The words of an Indian TV anchor:
> 
> _"The big story breaking this morning, an F-16 of the Pakistani air force shot down a Su-30MKI.. the latest of India's air force." - Rahul Kanwal 02/27/19_
> 
> Now that's believable.



And to top it off we have a car crash outside SU30 Avantipur base at 3am in the night where pilots die:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113747564246044674


Arsalan 345 said:


> i have seen a video and matched it with the iaf provided photos.it clearly matched.have you seen the video where one jet was shot down but in the background you can see another jet at high altitude turning towards left side? *That left side jet was hit later near mangla reservoir.*


Kindly provide the said pictures and video. *How did you make the conclusion that the left side jet was hit later near mangla? 
*
@Arsalan 345 kindly stick to providing the requested pics and vid with your comments that prove it all matches so we can have a meaningful exchange.

@Windjammer the real point that gives this one away i.e. trying to appear objective while completely in the wilderness and driven there by Indian propaganda, lol. 

How can the F16 be hit later near Mangla when Indians claim that it was AbhiNandan who shot down the F16 and after that his own jet was downed. Or the poster was counting seconds in between and is way ahead of IAF.

The above also means that if IAF is claiming Abhi shot F16 then they have no other proof or even any airy-fairy claim that another IAF asset even fired any missile at our F16s. 

Which in turn also means that since we have all the four missiles and even the seeker heads intact of the downed Mig, means Abhi never got off even a single shot.

So if no body fired at our F16s then how can one be shot later near Mangla according to our highly intelligible @Arsalan 345 who has seen something that matches airy-fairy Indian claims, lol.

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## TOPGUN

No PAF F-16 was shot down guys leave it to rest and stop encouraging the indian dumb trolls to bash every thread let them burn and dreaming in Bollywood.

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## Khanivore

Arsalan 345 said:


> this is my opinion based on evidences.i don't want to proof to anyone that i am pakistani.i just don't care.if you don't like m comment,move on.everyone has the right to speak.


You don't have the right to speak bullcrap the Indians are towing in their imaginary "evidence" videos.


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## Arsalan 345

Khanivore said:


> You don't have the right to speak bullcrap the Indians are towing in their imaginary "evidence" videos.



okay.


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## Khanivore

Arsalan 345 said:


> okay.


And stop linking Indian narrative videos to support your opinion, it's not gonna work on PDF.


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## Blueskiez 2001

TheTallGuy said:


> .......
> 
> end result there is no F-16 shot down..and yes sure as morning sun rises daily - Su-30MKI was bagged. If indian comeout and say we did not loose any Su-30MKI only then we will respond..
> 
> But you see there is no official clarification from IAF about that...did you noticed?



I was thinking about your last comment, and my first thought was *no way*. But then i realized all the debate has been about whether PAF F-16 was shot down or not. And then I realized that IAF to my knowledge haven´t claimed that they *ONLY* lost one MIG-21. IAF has admitted -because of the irrefutable evidence, that they lost one MIG-21, but not that was the only one. And interestingly (to my knowledge) no one - and certainly not the Indian Media, has asked IAF whether they lost an SU-30.

Can anyone shed light on this one or is my memmory just playin with me...

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## Defense Reader

Arsalan 345 said:


> i don't see any su-30 video.i don't believe.su-30s turned cold when amraams were fired towards them.f-16s on central position fired amraams towards approaching su-30s from south.f-16s were at 30 to 40000 feet.other group of f-16s on south were at 10 to 15000 feet which was ambush for su-30s.migs from north wasn't engaged by jf-17s.jf-17s was busy with indian mirages.that's why migs went through straight to our central primary package f-16s.one mig violated airspace and shot down.we also seen the video of another jet going down.it was at low altitude as compare to indian mig.we don't know who was flying that plane and which airforce operated that plane.it's a mystery.


Bhai dusra jahaz india main gira woh aliens ka tha su 30 ni tha or woh us ko mareekh pr le gye hain

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## Shane

Arsalan 345 said:


> i don't believe that they lost su-30.su-30 is a very big fighter jet.you can't hide it.



And then you post:


Arsalan 345 said:


> may be su-30.who knows!


A journey from "i don't believe" to "who knows" - Doesn't it proves nothing but "think before you post" something and start claiming I have proof? When all you have is a gullible arrow in the dark brainwave inspired from across the border that defies facts on the ground.



Arsalan 345 said:


> That left side jet was hit later near mangla reservoir.abhi was seen near a stream so the spot is clearly sabz kot.other jet near tandar fall down before abhi jet.


So the other jet which you earlier pointed out too as the jet which was hit later near Mangla is now the mystery jet(you also claimed it earlier as F16) Now you are saying that other jet near Tandar Fall down before Abhi jet? 

And then add to the mix "may be SU30".

Kuku




Arsalan 345 said:


> f-16s fired amraams on su-30 which went cold to avoid missile hit.they didn't even cross the loc.we must provide proof to the world now



Dear, SU30 going cold to avoid missile hit is the personification of silliness and proof that those who think that are swimming in what has been dribbling down IAF spokesman's ill fitting attire as the missile(s) fired at SU30 was AMRAAM which is not an IR heat seeking missile but an active radar guided missile, understand the difference. 

If going cold means crashing, lol, only then people would be willing to support such IAF fairy tails.


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## NA71

*IAF says Rafale jets would have further hurt Pakistan in dogfight vs F-16s
https://zeenews.india.com/india/iaf-says-rafale-jets-would-have-further-hurt-pakistan-in-dogfight-vs-f-16s-2195855.html*

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## pkd

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1117861902904954881

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## SIPRA

pkd said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1117861902904954881



Kindly open a new thread or merge it with IAF Chiefs press briefing thread.


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## valkyr_96

Blueskiez 2001 said:


> IAF has admitted -because of the irrefutable evidence, that they lost one MIG-21, but not that was the only one. And interestingly (to my knowledge) no one - and certainly not the Indian Media, has asked IAF whether they lost an SU-30.
> 
> Can anyone shed light on this one or is my memmory just playin with me...


 you are absolutely right on this one. They changed their statement only after video of the pilot emerged not even when DGISPR had said they have captured the pilot. Even then they reported him as missing.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100656090805686272

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## NA71

Guys things are gearing up.....on both fronts (Media/loc)


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## TheTallGuy

pkd said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1117861902904954881



Why Maj.Gen.Asif chose to tweet about this article with Rafale in it? 

 killer!

Did You guys notice how IAF chief is justifying Rafales...i believe The deal is in jeopardy! they are getting desperate...My word he should be in back handling IAF daily ops now he is going here and there to justify... well done @Windjammer


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## Irfan Baloch

TheTallGuy said:


> Why Maj.Gen.Asif chose to tweet about this article with Rafale in it?
> 
> killer!
> 
> Did You guys notice how IAF chief is justifying Rafales...i believe The deal is in jeopardy! they are getting desperate...My word he should be in back handling IAF daily ops now he is going here and there to justify... well done @Windjammer


he quoted original post by Indians with the article that contained Rafale picture


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Technology on the Indian side but they still missed all targets in Balakot and lost atleast one confirmed fighter jet with no losses on the Pakistani side!

Marvelous technology!

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## TheTallGuy

NA71 said:


> Guys things are gearing up.....on both fronts (Media/loc)



This has to happen sooner the better...IAF and Nazi Modi they need reason to survive..any new about there polls to date?

Can i talk to myself:
what if there is a defection of IAF Pilot and MiG-29UPG from Pathankot AFB to Lahore airport. this would be enough to shut them off for good.

if this not happen IAF goes in as ordered by Nazi Modi - gets beaten hard both central front and southern front - things escalate - and there is mutiny in Indian Armed forces nobody in right mind will kill the world.

May be my wishful thinking...



Irfan Baloch said:


> he quoted original post by Indians with the article that contained Rafale picture



yes you are right it was just this article containing the details ...there are no other...

You guys notice how B.S Dhanoa completely removed Su-30MKI. 
all those 250+ Su-30MKI are scrap matel?

"
The Indian Air Force chief was addressing a gathering at a seminar on aerospace power of the future and the impact of technology. 

"In the Balakot operation, we had technology on our side, and we could launch precision stand of weapons with great accuracy. In the subsequent engagements, we came out better because we upgraded our MiG-21s, Bisons, and Mirage-2000 aircraft," he said. 


Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/68889661.cms?utm_source=twitter_wap&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialsharebuttons&from=mdr&utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


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## alphibeti

Arsalan 345 said:


> this is my opinion based on evidences.i don't want to proof to anyone that i am pakistani.i just don't care.if you don't like m comment,move on.everyone has the right to speak.
> 
> 
> 
> thanks at least you can understand that i am only talking about the events.there is a loyalty test going on here.lol
> 
> 
> 
> sir watch this video.you can see a fighter jet at high altitude.first plane went down and the other jet in the background moves towards left side which later was shot down.check the iaf picture that i am posting here.two impact points.one on the left,one on the right.the impact on right happened before impact on left.it can be seen in the video and by the direction of sunlight,i think this proves that at least two jets fall on our side.
> (video of first jet goind down and clearly you can see the other jet in the background turning left)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (video of first jet)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now match it with iaf impact points.here is the picture...
> 
> i am not saying that the first jet is f-16.this is the line adopted by iaf so i don't adopt it but it is clearly a jet,may be su-30.who knows!


"... other jet in the background moves towards left side which later was shot down..."
Where the heck it shows that plane going down in this video? Don't relate your speculation from your filthy brain on this video with manually drawn sketch presented by dumb Indians. It looks like the plane is not on fire. Your a$$ is. My son can draw a better sketch by using autocad. These idiot Indians are lying repeatedly. They can change their father for the sake of deceiving others. After Americans have conducted physical count on our F-16 fleet and the world has trust in that, why any one in his right senses would believe the lies of urine-drinking compulsive liar Indians. They have changed their story many times. First they claimed F-16 was shot down by a friendly fire, then by ground fire, and then by Abhinandan (who himself said on-camera that he was searching for a target when he became one himself). And he is alive - not dead. Why the heck you go and get an interview with him to put your *** to rest. You better shut up Indian coward rather than wasting time and bandwidth on this forum.

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## TheTallGuy

alphibeti said:


> then by Abhinandan (who himself said on-camera that he was searching for a target when he became one himself). And he is alive - not dead. Why the heck you go and get an interview with him



he is moved to Srinagar AFB with family this guy needs rest and time with family - he has been through a lot ...i mean not a single Reporter or Media person can meet him ...


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## Irfan Baloch

alphibeti said:


> " It looks like the plane is not on fire. Your a$$ is. My son can draw a better sketch by using autocad. .


Savage level 1000%


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## Arsalan 345

whatever.my best wishes is always with my country.iaf should accept if they lost su-30.it's a very big plane.i don't want to hurt anyone.people can think from different ways.truth will come out.this new ispr message is powerful with so much explanation.he said.....PAF shot down 2 IAF Jets wreckage seen by all. i hope they will release more pictures of iaf jets wreckage.this conflict is ongoing.india is mad under modi.all they want is destruction on our side.



Shane said:


> And then you post:
> 
> A journey from "i don't believe" to "who knows" - Doesn't it proves nothing but "think before you post" something and start claiming I have proof? When all you have is a gullible arrow in the dark brainwave inspired from across the border that defies facts on the ground.
> 
> 
> So the other jet which you earlier pointed out too as the jet which was hit later near Mangla is now the mystery jet(you also claimed it earlier as F16) Now you are saying that other jet near Tandar Fall down before Abhi jet?
> 
> And then add to the mix "may be SU30".
> 
> Kuku
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear, SU30 going cold to avoid missile hit is the personification of silliness and proof that those who think that are swimming in what has been dribbling down IAF spokesman's ill fitting attire as the missile(s) fired at SU30 was AMRAAM which is not an IR heat seeking missile but an active radar guided missile, understand the difference.
> 
> If going cold means crashing, lol, only then people would be willing to support such IAF fairy tails.



i don't want to discuss it anymore.very sad for india if they lost su-30.now kindly shift focus from this incident to 16 to 20 april.india ca still attack.they are crying for rafale lol.

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## mingle

TheTallGuy said:


> Why Maj.Gen.Asif chose to tweet about this article with Rafale in it?
> 
> killer!
> 
> Did You guys notice how IAF chief is justifying Rafales...i believe The deal is in jeopardy! they are getting desperate...My word he should be in back handling IAF daily ops now he is going here and there to justify... well done @Windjammer


I believe Dhonna also got some kickbacks from French the way he justifying Rafale purchase totally ignoring 250 Su30s show this man also involve in this bad deal I still believe Rafale is unnecessary purchase for IAF they can build tejas more in number to replace legacy migs



Arsalan 345 said:


> whatever.my best wishes is always with my country.iaf should accept if they lost su-30.it's a very big plane.i don't want to hurt anyone.people can think from different ways.truth will come out.this new ispr message is powerful with so much explanation.he said.....PAF shot down 2 IAF Jets wreckage seen by all. i hope they will release more pictures of iaf jets wreckage.this conflict is ongoing.india is mad under modi.all they want is destruction on our side.
> 
> 
> 
> i don't want to discuss it anymore.very sad for india if they lost su-30.now kindly shift focus from this incident to 16 to 20 april.india ca still attack.they are crying for rafale lol.


Nothing wrong with Su30s it's a great palne but they crying for Rafale is just cover up from corruption nothing more.



TheTallGuy said:


> This has to happen sooner the better...IAF and Nazi Modi they need reason to survive..any new about there polls to date?
> 
> Can i talk to myself:
> what if there is a defection of IAF Pilot and MiG-29UPG from Pathankot AFB to Lahore airport. this would be enough to shut them off for good.
> 
> if this not happen IAF goes in as ordered by Nazi Modi - gets beaten hard both central front and southern front - things escalate - and there is mutiny in Indian Armed forces nobody in right mind will kill the world.
> 
> May be my wishful thinking...
> 
> 
> 
> yes you are right it was just this article containing the details ...there are no other...
> 
> You guys notice how B.S Dhanoa completely removed Su-30MKI.
> all those 250+ Su-30MKI are scrap matel?
> 
> "
> The Indian Air Force chief was addressing a gathering at a seminar on aerospace power of the future and the impact of technology.
> 
> "In the Balakot operation, we had technology on our side, and we could launch precision stand of weapons with great accuracy. In the subsequent engagements, we came out better because we upgraded our MiG-21s, Bisons, and Mirage-2000 aircraft," he said.
> 
> 
> Read more at:
> //economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/68889661.cms?utm_source=twitter_wap&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialsharebuttons&from=mdr&utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


Dhonna is a filthy man nothing more he should be fire over 27 fiasco.

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## SaffronBandit

RIWWIR said:


> Kindly open a new thread or merge it with IAF Chiefs press briefing thread.


It's telling how the rank and file feels about such statements. Surely '..it rots from the top', so there may be value in falsehoods disseminated from the top because people can start believing their own lies at the very bottom. They talk about stand-off weapons in the article; the air launch cruise missiles and those are the weapons that hit them the hardest. I found out from my own sources in the Air Force that the actual story is not known by majority of the public and people only know about the 2 IAF jets shot down. The 6 targets that were targeted were targeted with these stand-off weapons and that scared the Indians so much that everything in them froze and they started whining about the Rafale because that aircraft can carry and deliver such weapons. Our Mirages conducted the incursion and attacked with these weapons. It is said that at one point there were 24 PAF aircraft in the air. This was an act of tremendous herculean balls in broad day light. So Indians whining about the Rafale is because of what happened to them on the ground not in the air. This was the worst bitch-slap in probably a long time in air warfare history. Let them believe their lies, its actually a good thing - hubris has its own fall again and again. Encourage them.

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## GriffinsRule

mingle said:


> I believe Dhonna also got some kickbacks from French the way he justifying Rafale purchase totally ignoring 250 Su30s show this man also involve in this bad deal I still believe Rafale is unnecessary purchase for IAF they can build tejas more in number to replace legacy migs
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with Su30s it's a great palne but they crying for Rafale is just cover up from corruption nothing more.
> 
> 
> Dhonna is a filthy man nothing more he should be fire over 27 fiasco.



I think we should officially call him Chief Roona Dhonna from now on ... or at least on PDF lol


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## The Accountant

This is your proof that an F16 is down .. lolz 

What can you see other than 2 white lines?

It could be anything from any day ... there were 3 dozens aircraft were flying that day with a number of missiles as well ... This could be anything ...

This video means nothing at all ... This is equivallent to imagination of a 3 years kid who talks to his stuff toys



Arsalan 345 said:


> this is my opinion based on evidences.i don't want to proof to anyone that i am pakistani.i just don't care.if you don't like m comment,move on.everyone has the right to speak.
> 
> 
> 
> thanks at least you can understand that i am only talking about the events.there is a loyalty test going on here.lol
> 
> 
> 
> sir watch this video.you can see a fighter jet at high altitude.first plane went down and the other jet in the background moves towards left side which later was shot down.check the iaf picture that i am posting here.two impact points.one on the left,one on the right.the impact on right happened before impact on left.it can be seen in the video and by the direction of sunlight,i think this proves that at least two jets fall on our side.
> (video of first jet goind down and clearly you can see the other jet in the background turning left)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (video of first jet)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now match it with iaf impact points.here is the picture...
> 
> i am not saying that the first jet is f-16.this is the line adopted by iaf so i don't adopt it but it is clearly a jet,may be su-30.who knows!

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## Khanivore

The Accountant said:


> This is your proof that an F16 is down .. lolz
> 
> What can you see other than 2 white lines?
> 
> It could be anything from any day ... there were 3 dozens aircraft were flying that day with a number of missiles as well ... This could be anything ...
> 
> This video means nothing at all ... This is equivallent to imagination of a 3 years kid who talks to his stuff toys


He uses videos made by childish Indians to support the idea that an F-16D Blk52 was shot down by their MiG-21. Judging from his post history, I am very sure this "Arsalan 345" is not a Pakistani as his reasons and arguments regarding Feb 27 skirmish are extremely Indian-centric.

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## Microsoft

Uzaie Aslam said:


> Guys wtf is wrong with you people? Anyone who is questioning the Pakistani narrative is being labeled as an Indian? Wow, I thought this forum was open to such critique and analysis. Mods please post clear rules, are we allowed to question the Pakistani narrative or not?
> 
> Coming back to my second point, so many people here are quoting how could have the PAF hidden the f16 if it was shot down? True, agreed. How did the Indians hide their SU30? You cant have it both ways. I have posted before and I will say it again, for the common man, no su30 was shot. People with contacts in PAF would say otherwise but I speak as a common man



What else you can have both ways is: How was the plane shot down?

Indian answer: Abhinandan shot it down
Pakistani answer: Nauman Ali Khan/Hassan Siddiqui shot it down

All of Abhinandan's missiles proven to have never been fired. No statement from Abhinandan himself of shooting down F-16. No acknowledgment of any other pilot. Hell, no acknowledgment of F-16 being shot down by Modi, as far as I'm aware. He should be bragging about it on campaign trail!

Conclusion for common man: Second plane (2 planes proven by separate videos of multiple planes/parachutes) *must be* Indian. Is it SU-30? Possibly not. However there are members here who correctly identified the accredited pilots on day 0 of the incident. These same members also confirm the second plane is SU-30. Adding to that there are videos/locals identify 2 parachutes from one plane. That's enough evidence for me, a common man, that the second plane is SU-30.


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## Pakistani Fighter

Microsoft said:


> What else you can have both ways is: How was the plane shot down?
> 
> Indian answer: Abhinandan shot it down
> Pakistani answer: Nauman Ali Khan/Hassan Siddiqui shot it down
> 
> All of Abhinandan's missiles proven to have never been fired. No statement from Abhinandan himself of shooting down F-16. No acknowledgment of any other pilot. Hell, no acknowledgment of F-16 being shot down by Modi, as far as I'm aware. He should be bragging about it on campaign trail!
> 
> Conclusion for common man: Second plane (2 planes proven by separate videos of multiple planes/parachutes) *must be* Indian. Is it SU-30? Possibly not. However there are members here who correctly identified the accredited pilots on day 0 of the incident. These same members also confirm the second plane is SU-30. Adding to that there are videos/locals identify 2 parachutes from one plane. That's enough evidence for me, a common man, that the second plane is SU-30.


PAF believes secind jet is SU 30


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## majid mehmood

Arsalan 345 said:


> this is my opinion based on evidences.i don't want to proof to anyone that i am pakistani.i just don't care.if you don't like m comment,move on.everyone has the right to speak.
> 
> 
> 
> thanks at least you can understand that i am only talking about the events.there is a loyalty test going on here.lol
> 
> 
> 
> sir watch this video.you can see a fighter jet at high altitude.first plane went down and the other jet in the background moves towards left side which later was shot down.check the iaf picture that i am posting here.two impact points.one on the left,one on the right.the impact on right happened before impact on left.it can be seen in the video and by the direction of sunlight,i think this proves that at least two jets fall on our side.
> (video of first jet goind down and clearly you can see the other jet in the background turning left)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (video of first jet)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now match it with iaf impact points.here is the picture...
> 
> i am not saying that the first jet is f-16.this is the line adopted by iaf so i don't adopt it but it is clearly a jet,may be su-30.who knows!


If you claim that second smoke was from mig21 then i can assure you the frist aircraft fell in IOK just look where second smoke is heading its towards the AJK while first aircraft is heading towards opposite direction

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## Bullzz

The President has been pleased to grant the military awards to the officers and soldiers of Pakistan Army, Navy and Air Force.

*1 Sitara-i-Jur’at,* *2 Tamgha-i-Jur’at*, 8 Sitara-i-Basalat, 88 Tamgha-i-Basalat, 94 Imtiazi Asnad, 113 COAS Commendation Cards, 23 Hilal-i-Imtiaz (Military), 112 Sitara-i-Imtiaz (Military) and 137 Tamgha-i-Imtiaz (Military) have been awarded.

According to an ISPR statement, following officers and soldiers of three services have been conferred gallantly awards for displaying bravery, dedication, commitment and professionalism during different operations and particularly against Indian aggression post Pulwama defeating India in all domains. Major awards include:

Following officer has been conferred with *Sitara-i-Jur’at: Wing Commander Muhammad Noman Ali Khan*, Air Force.

Following officers have been conferred with *Tamgha-i-Jur’at: Group Capt Faheem Ahmad Khan*, Air Force, *Squadron Leader Hasan Mahmood Siddiqui*, Air Force.

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## loanranger

Got wind of some Indian plan to release some "proof" in the form of an article of shooting down our f 16 with the mig 21. Maybe some article from RT similar to FP. Lets see what they concoct this time.


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## skybolt



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## air marshal



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## HawkEye27



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## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1170238588816113666

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## Windjammer

*The Man And The Missile.




*

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## PakShaheen79

Windjammer said:


> *The Man And The Missile.
> 
> View attachment 578421
> *



_*The Man And The Missile With The Mission.*_


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## Maxpane

Windjammer said:


> *The Man And The Missile.
> 
> View attachment 578421
> *


men in Green


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## AsifIjaz

Windjammer said:


> *The Man And The Missile.
> 
> View attachment 578421
> *


iaf, indian intelligence agencies and sponsored miscreants can do whatever they want... mark him as they wish... by the grace of Allah SWT he will be safe....and he will inshallah be back in action when required or asked to


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## truthseeker2010

HawkEye27 said:


> View attachment 578365



Was he the air boss of 27 feb?


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## TsAr

Windjammer said:


> *The Man And The Missile.
> 
> View attachment 578421
> *


Even in the pic he is showing a middle finger to the IAF

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## The Eagle

Windjammer said:


> *The Man And The Missile.
> 
> View attachment 578421
> *



The machine, the missile, the man & the finger - To whom it may concern.

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## mingle

Windjammer said:


> *The Man And The Missile.
> 
> View attachment 578421
> *


He looks solid soldier



HawkEye27 said:


> View attachment 578365


Hatmi is Air commodore now?


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## truthseeker2010

mingle said:


> He looks solid soldier
> 
> 
> Hatmi is Air commodore now?



Yup base commander Mushaf

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

The Eagle said:


> The machine, the missile, the man & the finger - To whom it may concern.


At the end of the day, it's the spontaneous aggression that counts the most.....

Some folks have got it naturally, and some don't - it makes the difference....

Each PAF pilot looks fiercely independent minded!!! Each comes with a feather of different hue and color!!! It's unlike some other "clever" folks who're like the foxes from the same herd!!! If you shoot one of them it's like shooting their entire AF down!!!! No wonder Modi/BS etc. howled together - it's a great loss and Rafaels are the only saviors...

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## The Eagle

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> At the end of the day, it's the spontaneous aggression that counts the most.....
> 
> Some folks have got it naturally, and some don't - it makes the difference....
> 
> Each PAF pilots looks fiercely independent minded!!! Each comes with a feather of different hue and color!!! It's unlike some other "clever" folks who're like the foxes from the same herd!!! If you shoot one of them it's like shooting their entire AF down!!!! No wonder Modi/BS etc. howled together - it's a great loss and Rafaels are the only saviors...



They can keep counting on every other shiny weapon in the market. I have no fear as what comes next or what the enemy will do - I will carry on with my own mission as what should I do & how to do it.

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## HawkEye27

The Eagle said:


> They can keep counting on every other shiny weapon in the market. I have no fear as what comes next or what the enemy will do - I will carry on with my own mission as what should I do & how to do it.

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## Riz



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## gangsta_rap

HawkEye27 said:


> View attachment 578733


why saladin lol?

For us pakistanis mahmud ghaznavi would be a better figure to make mention of:

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## The Accountant

GIANTsasquatch said:


> why saladin lol?
> 
> For us pakistanis mahmud ghaznavi would be a better figure to make mention of:


Do you think we have just one deadly enemy in the east?

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## gangsta_rap

The Accountant said:


> Do you think we have just one deadly enemy in the east?


Whatever enemy you are talking about, they were never meant to be our opponent. Maybe we should do ourselves a favor for once and come to terms with these 'not-enemies'


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## The Accountant

GIANTsasquatch said:


> Whatever enemy you are talking about, they were never meant to be our opponent. Maybe we should do ourselves a favor for once and come to terms with these 'not-enemies'


Lolz, and what makes you think that they were never meant to our enemy?

There are two ideological nations in the world. One is Pakistan with muslim ideology and another is with the zionist ideology. The sole purpose of that ideology is to capture Bait-ul-Muqadas and to to capture the whole of the middle east. And form a government that rule the whole world including Muslims of Pakistan and you are saying they were not meant to be our enemy...

Keep dreaming.


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## Wrath

AfrazulMandal said:


> Someone else was named earlier.
> 
> Did the Su pilot join PAF or will he be returned?


Named ? . Don't recall . Quote again plz


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## gangsta_rap

The Accountant said:


> Lolz, and what makes you think that they were never meant to our enemy?
> 
> There are two ideological nations in the world. One is Pakistan with muslim ideology and another is with the zionist ideology. The sole purpose of that ideology is to capture Bait-ul-Muqadas and to to capture the whole of the middle east. And form a government that rule the whole world including Muslims of Pakistan and you are saying they were not meant to be our enemy...
> 
> Keep dreaming.




we will follow the lead of our allies in the near future and i have no doubt we will make the smart choice when we reach a cusp at which we have to make a decision. that is how it will pan out god-willing


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## The Accountant

GIANTsasquatch said:


> we will follow the lead of our allies in the near future and i have no doubt we will make the smart choice when we reach a cusp at which we have to make a decision. that is how it will pan out god-willing



Our allies already have very good relationship with them and we will never follow them


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## HawkEye27

GIANTsasquatch said:


> why saladin lol?
> 
> For us pakistanis mahmud ghaznavi would be a better figure to make mention of:



I guess the designer of the badge is focused towards the saying of Saladin and its relation with the Rafale. Saladin, Ghaznavi all are our heroes


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## aliyusuf

@Windjammer
Following are the main medals awarded to PAF personnel involved in Operation Swift Retort ...

Sitara-i-Jur’at:-

Wing Commander Muhammad Noman Ali Khan, Air Force.

Tamgha-i-Jur’at:-

Group Capt Faheem Ahmad Khan, Air Force,
Squadron Leader Hasan Mahmood Siddiqui, Air Force.

My query is ...

Is Sitara-e-Jurat more prestigious or Tamgha-e-Jurat?

If Sitara-e-Jurat is more prestigious, then would the shooter of MiG-21 be awarded the more more prestigious award. As according to you W/C Noman Ali Khan shot down MiG-21 and he was awarded Sitara-e-Jurat and S/L Hassan Siddqui, according to you shot down Su-30MKI, was awarded Tamgha-e-Jurat?

Your response would be appreciated.


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## HawkEye27

aliyusuf said:


> @Windjammer
> Following are the main medals awarded to PAF personnel involved in Operation Swift Retort ...
> 
> Sitara-i-Jur’at:-
> 
> Wing Commander Muhammad Noman Ali Khan, Air Force.
> 
> Tamgha-i-Jur’at:-
> 
> Group Capt Faheem Ahmad Khan, Air Force,
> Squadron Leader Hasan Mahmood Siddiqui, Air Force.
> 
> My query is ...
> 
> Is Sitara-e-Jurat more prestigious or Tamgha-e-Jurat?
> 
> If Sitara-e-Jurat is more prestigious, then would the shooter of MiG-21 be awarded the more more prestigious award. As according to you W/C Noman Ali Khan shot down MiG-21 and he was awarded Sitara-e-Jurat and S/L Hassan Siddqui, according to you shot down Su-30MKI, was awarded Tamgha-e-Jurat?
> 
> Your response would be appreciated.



Sitara is more prestigious and was awarded for confirm kill

Tamgha is one less than Sitara and awarded bcs we have confirm HIT. Couldn’t confirm/proof the kill due to media/satellite blackout by Indians


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## Raider 21

HawkEye27 said:


> Sitara is more prestigious and was awarded for confirm kill
> 
> Tamgha is one less than Sitara and awarded bcs we have confirm HIT. Couldn’t confirm/proof the kill due to media/satellite blackout by Indians


Su-30MKI is a claim. No confirmed kill as no wreckage was found.

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## karakoram

Knuckles said:


> Su-30MKI is a claim. No confirmed kill as no wreckage was found.


But F 16 was confirm kill [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

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## aliyusuf

HawkEye27 said:


> Sitara is more prestigious and was awarded for confirm kill
> 
> Tamgha is one less than Sitara and awarded bcs we have confirm HIT. Couldn’t confirm/proof the kill due to media/satellite blackout by Indians


Hasn't DGISPR also stated that we have shot down their SU-30MKI? Also @Windjammer himself is on record on the forum as saying that the ACM had also claimed the same thing to him (when he met the ACM on an airport) ... so has Alan Warnes stated the same quoting the ACM? Don't their acknowledgement carry the necessary weight?

Also on another thread, created by @Windjammer, he has stated that we tracked the demise of the SU-30 from 3 different radar systems. Shouldn't that be proof enough?


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## HRK

aliyusuf said:


> Hasn't DGISPR also stated that we have shot down their SU-30MKI? Also @Windjammer himself is on record on the forum as saying that the ACM had also claimed the same thing to him (when he met the ACM on an airport) ... so has Alan Warnes stated the same quoting the ACM? Don't their acknowledgement carry the necessary weight?


there is a possibility of damage only not the compete destruction Su-30

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## aliyusuf

HRK said:


> there is a possibility of damage only not the compete destruction Su-30


True. But as I have edited my previous post by adding ...

"_Also on another thread, created by @Windjammer, he has stated that we tracked the demise of the SU-30 from 3 different radar systems. Shouldn't that be proof enough?_".

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## umair86

We have the Mayday calls of the SU-30MKI

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## The Eagle

umair86 said:


> We have the Mayday calls of the SU-30MKI



IAF RT with PAF is a heavy weight evidence.

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## aliyusuf

umair86 said:


> We have the Mayday calls of the SU-30MKI





The Eagle said:


> IAF RT with PAF is a heavy weight evidence.


That further reinforces the point I am trying to make that the Su-30MKI kill is pretty much slam dunk from our side. So the argument then arises then who shot down the SU-30MKI W/C Noman or S/L Hassan? How much weight should be given to the availability of wreckage vs electronic proof?


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## The Eagle

aliyusuf said:


> S/L Hassan


Yes.



aliyusuf said:


> electronic proof


Carries a lot of weight for the parties involved as well as foreign Military heads. Wreckage footage is not available as plane went to IoK before possible crashing. Furthermore, beside the RT, three different Radars have the data for MKI hit. So in the end, you present more evidences to weight in as a proof. Only time will tell.

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## umair86

And the pieces of AMRAAM that they showed is a proof the it made its mark and was pulled out of the wreckage of SU-30MKI. I think it was hit by 2 AMRAAM.

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## The Eagle

Falgrine said:


> I have heard that SU-30’s wreckage was kept in a certain aircraft hanger at Awantipur AFB for quite some time.



Possible and not to forget how good are they to cover or even would have replaced/repaired during period till now. And furthermore, as stated above, it is near impossible to find a piece of an AMRAAM in hours of conflict like this but an easy job while picking up scrap of downed MKI. I am really hopeful that our Chinese Friends had the SAT images of area/crashed MKI but then I see why Russian FM immediately reached Islamabad to meet big wigs. If PAF wasn't sure or had no evidence as such; we wouldn't witness firm belief as such.

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## NA71

Russian FM or Russian Ambassador???


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## The Eagle

NA71 said:


> Russian FM or Russian Ambassador???



Not just the FM but a team, my friend and may be the reason was to de-escalate by downplaying one or two things at that particular time though, that doesn't mean that nothing happened as such and we will not release tid bits on later stage. Concealing facts/evidence at that time was favourable for parties involved, from our prospective.

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## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

The whole Indian narrative not just now but throughout their history is based on fantasies.

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## Trailer23

The Eagle said:


> Possible and not to forget how good are they to cover or even would have replaced/repaired during period till now.


Brilliant. For all we know, the scrap of the Su-30MKi might have (_already_) been converted into a Limited Edition wrist watch.










https://www.bangalorewatchco.in/


Only a handful elite would be the beneficiaries of such a _timeless_ classic.
Modi, *BS* Dhanoa, Bipin Rawat, Nirmala Sitharaman and some RSS lackey.

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## loanranger

Trailer23 said:


> RSS lackey.


 funny guy


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## Thunder-17

aliyusuf said:


> Hasn't DGISPR also stated that we have shot down their SU-30MKI? Also @Windjammer himself is on record on the forum as saying that the ACM had also claimed the same thing to him (when he met the ACM on an airport) ... so has Alan Warnes stated the same quoting the ACM? Don't their acknowledgement carry the necessary weight?
> 
> Also on another thread, created by @Windjammer, he has stated that we tracked the demise of the SU-30 from 3 different radar systems. Shouldn't that be proof enough?


The fact of the matter is, we do not have any proof. If there is proof, PAF would have released it. All these fanboys statements are as good as melodrama.

What's further more, we went on to boldly claim we had a pilot in our custody. Not simply "initial reports indicate we have an injured pilot in CMH", no no no.... it was "we have an IAF pilot period". Then we had to shamelessly eat our words.

While the idiots on the other side, were happily shooting down their own chopper. But one wrong which they haven't committed is backtrack their statements. When your statements gets backtracked, you lose credibility. Their military/govt official spokespersons were consistent throughout the saga. But even they are sneaky bastards, that they didn't mention if their MiG-21 was shot down or was a technical fault. So how can we take their F-16 claim as true?

Looking at it from a unbiased third point view, The outcome of the engagement is:
1 - MiG-21 down confirmed - probability of PAF killing it is very high. Technical fault very low.
1 - F-16 claimed - probability of kill unknown.
1 - Su-30MKI claimed - probability of kill by PAF very low.


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## Windjammer

Thunder-17 said:


> The fact of the matter is, we do not have any proof. If there is proof, PAF would have released it. All these fanboys statements are as good as melodrama.
> 
> What's further more, we went on to boldly claim we had a pilot in our custody. Not simply "initial reports indicate we have an injured pilot in CMH", no no no.... it was "we have an IAF pilot period". Then we had to shamelessly eat our words.
> 
> While the idiots on the other side, were happily shooting down their own chopper. But one wrong which they haven't committed is backtrack their statements. When your statements gets backtracked, you lose credibility. Their military/govt official spokespersons were consistent throughout the saga. But even they are sneaky bastards, that they didn't mention if their MiG-21 was shot down or was a technical fault. So how can we take their F-16 claim as true?
> 
> Looking at it from a unbiased third point view, The outcome of the engagement is:
> 1 - MiG-21 down confirmed - probability of PAF killing it is very high. Technical fault very low.
> 1 - F-16 claimed - probability of kill unknown.
> 1 - Su-30MKI claimed - probability of kill by PAF very low.


The fact is every Tom, Dick and Harry with access to internet considers himself as some military historian or expert.
I was fortunate enough to have a personal conversation with the PAF Boss on this matter alas i don't doubt for a minute the claim of an SU-30 kill by PAF, furthermore a reputable journalist like Alan Warnes will not do his reputation any benefits by openly disclosing that he has seen proof to the effect.
Forget all this, do you think the PAF is shooting in the dark by releasing the victim's unit number and call sign aka 221 Squadron call sign ''Avenger''. While PAF refuted all the claim against it's F-16 by having neutral observers count the fleet and otherwise, i don't see any denial forthcoming from the other side.

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## aliyusuf

Thunder-17 said:


> But one wrong which they haven't committed is backtrack their statements.


This statement of yours ended any chance of me responding positively to your post. 

Also @Windjammer has answered the rest your post quite nicely.

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## loanranger

Thunder-17 said:


> The fact of the matter is, we do not have any proof. If there is proof, PAF would have released it. All these fanboys statements are as good as melodrama.
> 
> What's further more, we went on to boldly claim we had a pilot in our custody. Not simply "initial reports indicate we have an injured pilot in CMH", no no no.... it was "we have an IAF pilot period". Then we had to shamelessly eat our words.
> 
> While the idiots on the other side, were happily shooting down their own chopper. But one wrong which they haven't committed is backtrack their statements. When your statements gets backtracked, you lose credibility. Their military/govt official spokespersons were consistent throughout the saga. But even they are sneaky bastards, that they didn't mention if their MiG-21 was shot down or was a technical fault. So how can we take their F-16 claim as true?
> 
> Looking at it from a unbiased third point view, The outcome of the engagement is:
> 1 - MiG-21 down confirmed - probability of PAF killing it is very high. Technical fault very low.
> 1 - F-16 claimed - probability of kill unknown.
> 1 - Su-30MKI claimed - probability of kill by PAF very low.


Either you are not from Pakistan or you dont have a brain. What ever logic screams you say the exact opposite....

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## Irfan Baloch

loanranger said:


> Either you are not from Pakistan or you dont have a brain. What ever logic screams you say the exact opposite....


dont gang on him

he has an opinion that doesn't match with PAF narrative 

that's fine

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## loanranger

Irfan Baloch said:


> dont gang on him
> 
> he has an opinion that doesn't match with PAF narrative
> 
> that's fine


 Ok ,Freedom of speech shall be upheld at PDF.


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## Windjammer

Bison Blaster Preparing For Another Hunt.

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## Irfan Baloch

Irfan Baloch said:


> dont gang on him
> 
> he has an opinion that doesn't match with PAF narrative
> 
> that's fine


we are not Saudis or Indians who have people lynched for speaking against national narrative. 
as long as someone is not trolling and giving an alternate view with some reasoning its fine.
it helps you sharpen your own argument and don't become lazy. remember we are not just preaching the converted but we have international audience as well.
one day the world will see the undeniable truth of our victory on 27 Feb.

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## Rahil khan

Thunder-17 said:


> The fact of the matter is, we do not have any proof. If there is proof, PAF would have released it. All these fanboys statements are as good as melodrama.
> 
> What's further more, we went on to boldly claim we had a pilot in our custody. Not simply "initial reports indicate we have an injured pilot in CMH", no no no.... it was "we have an IAF pilot period". Then we had to shamelessly eat our words.
> 
> While the idiots on the other side, were happily shooting down their own chopper. But one wrong which they haven't committed is backtrack their statements. When your statements gets backtracked, you lose credibility. Their military/govt official spokespersons were consistent throughout the saga. But even they are sneaky bastards, that they didn't mention if their MiG-21 was shot down or was a technical fault. So how can we take their F-16 claim as true?
> 
> Looking at it from a unbiased third point view, The outcome of the engagement is:
> 1 - MiG-21 down confirmed - probability of PAF killing it is very high. Technical fault very low.
> 1 - F-16 claimed - probability of kill unknown.
> 1 - Su-30MKI claimed - probability of kill by PAF very low.



It's not about the probabilities. It's all about credibility. Indian Airfoce lost it's credibility once they claimed that over 250 militants were killed with just their 5 bombs dropped at Balakot. As per our Deputy Chief of Air Staff said that enemy violated Pakistani territory with 12 Mirages...dropped only 4 bombs and all of them were off target which reflects a thoroughly unprofessional Airforce...In response PAF retaliated in a broad daylight after DG ISPR asked them to wait for our surprise. Ask Alan Warnes who enjoy enough credibility and reputation whether Indian Su 30 was shot down or not on that day ?

Furthermore, in modern era where every one has smartphone cameras along with 4G internet access, videos of the presumably F-16 wreckage would have spread like a wild fire. Also here to mention that Kashmiris inside Pakistani territory have full access to internet and other facilities unlike Indian Occupied territory where people are denied from their fundamental basic rights.

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## loanranger

Rahil khan said:


> Also here to mention that Kashmiris inside Pakistani territory have full access to internet and other facilities unlike Indian Occupied territory where people are denied from their fundamental basic rights.


Yes exactly the reason why the Su30 wreckage could not be brought on to social media also luckily by chance it passed through an area which was less populated and thus lesser eyes or mobiles to record.


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## Thunder-17

If that is the case, why not release the captured pilot's photograph. Why is it so hard? We have a solid proof on our side, just release the damn thing, just like we paraded abhinadhan! The fact that we cannot, speaks volumes of our silly propaganda.
If a murder was committed and if the accused is named, police will not believe statements of the accused's family and friends. They will only give statements supporting him. What is proof is statement from a third party or object evidence like a fuckin dead body.

Alan warnes is PAF's buddy. He gets all the sweet exclusives. The last thing he will do is write a damning report against the hand which feeds him. The rest are unnamed sources.

Release the damn photograph!!! Release it!!!!!



Rahil khan said:


> It's not about the probabilities. It's all about credibility. Indian Airfoce lost it's credibility once they claimed that over 250 militants were killed with just their 5 bombs dropped at Balakot. As per our Deputy Chief of Air Staff said that enemy violated Pakistani territory with 12 Mirages...dropped only 4 bombs and all of them were off target which reflects a thoroughly unprofessional Airforce...In response PAF retaliated in a broad daylight after DG ISPR asked them to wait for our surprise. Ask Alan Warnes who enjoy enough credibility and reputation whether Indian Su 30 was shot down or not on that day ?
> 
> Furthermore, in modern era where every one has smartphone cameras along with 4G internet access, videos of the presumably F-16 wreckage would have spread like a wild fire. Also here to mention that Kashmiris inside Pakistani territory have full access to internet and other facilities unlike Indian Occupied territory where people are denied from their fundamental basic rights.


Their airforce did not claim 250 were killed. They only claimed the target was hit. Those pussies did not even release what weapons were used. It's only their stupid media which went on to report all this information that some Israeli missile was used and all that crap. They didn't release any information, which is the reason why I don't trust their statements as well.


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## Rain

PAF claim shooting down SU 30, PAF will not clain it with out solid evidences, otherwise PAF wont play Politics like Other Guys in Khaki do. We Trust PAF.

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## Taimoor Khan

Windjammer said:


> Bison Blaster Preparing For Another Hunt.
> 
> 
> View attachment 579860




That's SU30 kill, I was thinking, throughout the history of F16 program, the Americans, the Israelis and even us during first afghan war, this has to he its biggest prey up till now.


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## Imran Khan

Rain said:


> PAF claim shooting down SU 30, PAF will not clain it with out solid evidences, otherwise PAF wont play Politics like Other Guys in Khaki do. We Trust PAF.


Paf have radar and awacs recordings just wait and see


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## aliyusuf

Taimoor Khan said:


> That's SU30 kill, I was thinking, throughout the history of F16 program, the Americans, the Israelis and even us during first afghan war, this has to he its biggest prey up till now.


Has even an F-15 or any other western plane shot down an Su-30?


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## Hayreddin

Thunder-17 said:


> The fact of the matter is, we do not have any proof. If there is proof, PAF would have released it. All these fanboys statements are as good as melodrama.
> 
> What's further more, we went on to boldly claim we had a pilot in our custody. Not simply "initial reports indicate we have an injured pilot in CMH", no no no.... it was "we have an IAF pilot period". Then we had to shamelessly eat our words.
> 
> While the idiots on the other side, were happily shooting down their own chopper. But one wrong which they haven't committed is backtrack their statements. When your statements gets backtracked, you lose credibility. Their military/govt official spokespersons were consistent throughout the saga. But even they are sneaky bastards, that they didn't mention if their MiG-21 was shot down or was a technical fault. So how can we take their F-16 claim as true?
> 
> Looking at it from a unbiased third point view, The outcome of the engagement is:
> 1 - MiG-21 down confirmed - probability of PAF killing it is very high. Technical fault very low.
> 1 - F-16 claimed - probability of kill unknown.
> 1 - Su-30MKI claimed - probability of kill by PAF very low.



Paf got undeniable proofs of su30 kill but can't show in public . 
What u want them to show proofs , " Hassan na ghar ma ghus ka mara or kitnay andar ja kar mara ...." 
Use ur brain to think . 
Why didnt PAF show other ground attack videos which india even accepted paf had done ?? 
Why mig21 crossed loc , where was his wing man ? 
Why su30 didnt engage paf when even they were airborn and were lock n loaded ? 
Even watching mig21 going down , su30s didnt engage Paf , in era of bvr ?? 
What happend to those airbirn iaf mirage 2000s ? 

Simply IAF shocked and alot of myths were destroyed that day .

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## Windjammer

Taimoor Khan said:


> That's SU30 kill, I was thinking, throughout the history of F16 program, the Americans, the Israelis and even us during first afghan war, this has to he its biggest prey up till now.


Yup, First Recorded Combat Kill of the Mighty SU-30 .

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## Taimoor Khan

Windjammer said:


> Yup, First Recorded Combat Kill of the Mighty SU-30 .



Imagine the dilemma of American establishment and Lockheed Martin in particular.


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## Windjammer

Can the IAF or Indian Arm Chair Generals check if this guy is still flying the SU-30 MKI- from Indian Air Force's 221 Squadron 'Valiants' at Halwara, Punjab. Not to forget that Chief on the left was made to go home in not so happy ending post 27th Feb PAF operation Swift Retort.

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## The Eagle

Windjammer said:


> Can the IAF or Indian Arm Chair Generals check if this guy is still flying the SU-30 MKI- from Indian Air Force's 221 Squadron 'Valiants' at Halwara, Punjab. Not to forget that Chief on the left was made to go home in not so happy ending post 27th Feb PAF operation Swift Retort.



This picture may turn out to be the most interesting historical peace. SU-30 MKI, Chief going home with sorrow & grief & most probably the SU rider on the right side being shot down on 27th Feb. anything can happen.


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## AsianLion

*Squadron Leader Hassan Siddqui man he is solid talker and hard hitting man, a real hero who shot down the biggest Su30 MKI Indian Airforce jet. *

*Just Wow!*

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## araz

Rahil khan said:


> It's not about the probabilities. It's all about credibility. Indian Airfoce lost it's credibility once they claimed that over 250 militants were killed with just their 5 bombs dropped at Balakot. As per our Deputy Chief of Air Staff said that enemy violated Pakistani territory with 12 Mirages...dropped only 4 bombs and all of them were off target which reflects a thoroughly unprofessional Airforce...In response PAF retaliated in a broad daylight after DG ISPR asked them to wait for our surprise. Ask Alan Warnes who enjoy enough credibility and reputation whether Indian Su 30 was shot down or not on that day ?
> 
> Furthermore, in modern era where every one has smartphone cameras along with 4G internet access, videos of the presumably F-16 wreckage would have spread like a wild fire. Also here to mention that Kashmiris inside Pakistani territory have full access to internet and other facilities unlike Indian Occupied territory where people are denied from their fundamental basic rights.


There is a bit of jingoism in this. You need to understand the Indians also did not want an escalation. They may have well thought that if the bombs did not hit any target of note we can make our noises on the press and the Pak forces will not retaliate as no loss of life had occured. To me it sounds logical to play to your strength (ie your press) and gain a moral victory without any loss. The end is achieved Modi is their saviour.
Now our trees and the shaheed crow being so important to us we retaliated ruffled their feathers and in the melee caught two of their planes with their rear ends exposed and pointedly rammed up a couple of Aim120s in them.
Modi laments the fact that "if Rafale had been there the result would have been different". The Indian Babu quickly asks for more money to buy more arms the whole world drools over the Indian heirarchy and the Halwa puri starts. So everyone is happy while for the poor masses there is no toilets or basic amenities on both sides. But then who gives a rat's *** about the masses.
A

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## loanranger

AsianUnion said:


> *Squadron Leader Hassan Siddqui man he is solid talker and hard hitting man, a real hero who shot down the biggest Su30 MKI Indian Airforce jet. *
> 
> *Just Wow!*


Sounds like you just found out.


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## Windjammer

Have learned from reliable sources that these very individual Pilots have also recorded interviews which were supposed to be aired before they came on the stage. The Sukhoi Slayer even says that they had no idea from where I had hit them. Another joked towards the end that more tea is awaited for them. I guess due to lack of time they cut out those interview parts, but i am sure they have those first-ever interviews stored somewhere to be aired at some other event.

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## Windjammer

*Pakistan Army Mess Serves Fantastic Tea, We Will Arrange The Tea Party.*

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## The Eagle

Windjammer said:


> I guess due to lack of time they cut out those interview parts, but i am sure they have those first-ever interviews stored somewhere to be aired at some other event.



That makes sense as Airtime is always specific & assigned in limited capacity for each & every show/program. Or may be, we are talking about two different airtime fun as the one is already done so the next may be aired sometimes later. Personnel were available at that time hence, recorded at once.

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## Windjammer

The Eagle said:


> That makes sense as Airtime is always specific & assigned in limited capacity for each & every show/program. Or may be, we are talking about two different airtime fun as the one is already done so the next may be aired sometimes later. Personnel were available at that time hence, recorded at once.


Yes even when Haseeb Paracha was showing the footage of bomb strikes on Indian targets, he pointed out that the video has been slowed for audience to clearly see the targets, he went on to say, later it will be shown in normal speed but that was also deleted.

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## TsAr

v-max23 said:


> An unseen video of the burning IAF Mig21 falling from the sky during PAF's Operation Swift Retort on the 27th of Feb 2019.


Stop posting already posted videos in every thread... @The Eagle


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