# Israel Air Force to Participate in U.S. Drill Alongside Pakistani, U.A.E. Jets



## Windjammer

Israel Air Force to Participate in U.S. Drill Alongside Pakistani, U.A.E. Jets
Israel sending land and air crews, as well as F-16 jets, to Red Flag air-to-air combat exercise at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada.

Gili Cohen Aug 03, 2016 8:36 AM

The Israel Air Force is set to take part in a large-scale aerial exercise in the United States later this month. According to...
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.734899

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## Windjammer

It's interesting that in the past at the likes of Anatolian Eagle exercise, both air forces remained apart rather than mixing it, but now they seem to have agreed to exercise with and against each other, it'll be interesting since PAF is participating with it's top of the line fighters.

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## barbarosa

Not objectionable Job. Learn If you go to China, Hades shareef

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## Sipahi

*Keep your friends close and your enemies closer*

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## war&peace

Wow let's see how does it play our for PAF. No doubt PAF has one of the best pilots but it will be interesting to see how it compares with more airforces with more advanced platforms. A great exercise. I see that PAF is getting quite a lot of international exposure lately and that's a positive sign. 


barbarosa said:


> Not objectionable Job. Learn If you go to China, Hades shareef


Oh my cute bro


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## omega supremme

i don't think Pakistan will do joint exercise with the israelis, the news channel is trying to make the news sensational


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## ADIL SHERDIL

Its good for PAF as they will learn from them many things including their techniques. It will also be interesting to see how Paf manages them and engage them if they exercise against each other.

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## Arbiter

Good, we should try to learn from everyone, friend or foe.

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## Windjammer

I once worked with an Israeli guy, in fact he was our crew chief, he had done marines service in Israel, he would often ask me that why the relations between Israel and Pakistan are strained since there's no conflict between the two....one thing for sure the Israelis do acknowledge the PAF.

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## Genghis khan1

ADIL SHERDIL said:


> Its good for PAF as they will learn from them many things including their techniques. It will also be interesting to see how Paf manages them and engage them if they exercise against each other.


LOL, no country is stupid to give out all their technique in open world exercise. Every country knows what to bring and what to hide in these exercises in terms of equipment and or techniques. PAF pilots interacts with Indian pilots normally so Israelis should be like any other.

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## Windjammer

Genghis khan1 said:


> LOL, no country is stupid to give out all their technique in open world exercise. Every country knows what to bring and what to hide in these exercises in terms of equipment and or techniques. PAF pilots interacts with Indian pilots normally so Israelis should be like any other.


Dude even then there is a reason why the Israelis backed out of exercising with PAF at one of the Anatolian Eagle exercises.
You may hold your cards close to your chest but still you can pick out or reveal the combat tactics that you or others deploy.

And guess who else is participating in the Red Flag,
Apart from F-22 the F-35 will also be joining.....plenty of opportunities and experience for our boys. 





Stealth,supercruise,maneuverability make the #F22 #ReadytoFight & practice #AirDominance @ @NellisAFB #*RedFlag* trng

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## Genghis khan1

Windjammer said:


> Dude even then there is a reason why the Israelis backed out of exercising with PAF at one of the Anatolian Eagle exercises.
> You may hold your cards close to your chest but still you can pick out or reveal the combat tactics that you or others deploy.


I guess this time they will be prepared, what to do what not to, Plus unlike Anatolian eagle, IDF can ask US to rigged the field a little for them in role assignment, to reduce their interaction with PAF or to safeguard their techniques.


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## barbarosa

The methods of learning are,
How the experts works?, Look at the experts.
What the teachers saying ? Listen with interest.
What the senseless people are doing? Not to do the same.
The sensible peoples has learned from the senseless peoples.

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## Genghis khan1

Windjammer said:


> Dude even then there is a reason why the Israelis backed out of exercising with PAF at one of the Anatolian Eagle exercises.
> You may hold your cards close to your chest but still you can pick out or reveal the combat tactics that you or others deploy.
> 
> And guess who else is participating in the Red Flag,
> Apart from F-22 the F-35 will also be joining.....plenty of opportunities and experience for our boys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stealth,supercruise,maneuverability make the #F22 #ReadytoFight & practice #AirDominance @ @NellisAFB #*RedFlag* trng


True, it will be a good exercise. but not what other members are implying. US or Israelis ain't giving out their jet secret or ultimate war tactics.


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## Windjammer

There's a reason that even the French are reporting the news.



*Israël va participer à un exercice militaire aérien US aux côtés du Pakistan*
Par i24news 
Publié: 03/08/2016 - 10:11, mis à jour: 10:17

L'armée n'a pas souhaité commenter la participation du Pakistan (Haaretz)
L'armée de l'air israélienne s'apprête à participer à un exercice militaire de trois semaines aux Etats-Unis, aux côtés notamment de pilotes pakistanais, a indiqué _Haaretz_ mercredi.

L'exercice annuel "Red Flag", qui mettra à l"honneur l'avion de combat américain F-16, doit débuter dans environ deux semaines dans le Nevada.

Les Emirats Arabes Unis devraient également y participer selon _Haaretz_.

Israël n'entretient pas de relations diplomatiques avec le Pakistan et les Emirats.

Interrogé par_ Haaretz_ sur les relations entre l'armée et ces deux pays, Tsahal a refusé de commenter.

L'exercice militaire comprendra des simulations de combat aérien ainsi que des exercices de couverture rapprochée pour le F-35, selon_ Business Insider_.

L'armée de l'air israélienne s'y prépare depuis des mois, a précisé _Haaretz_.

Après des années de retards et de dépassements de coûts, l'armée de l'air américaine a annoncé mardi que son chasseur F-35 était enfin prêt pour le combat.

Israël a déjà commandé un total de 33 F-35 et sera le seul pays du Moyen-Orient en possession du jet que l'armée américaine commence à peine à utiliser.


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## shah1398

I wouldnt mind few engagements between the two.


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## Stealth



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## Windjammer

@gambit , sir your thoughts please. F-35, F-22, Israel and Pakistan.....one hell of a combination.

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## Paksanity

What's wrong with doing a training exercise with Israel? Good thing to interact with them.

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## Windjammer

Damn, they seem to be all there this year.






*Commander, 1 FW* ‏@1fw_cc  Jul 24
Always ready. 27 & 149 FS Airmen are sharpening their skills at #RedFlag #F22 #FF #WeAreAirpower

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## barbarosa

Please pray for paf not to become love affair with another daughter of USA, F35, because i am a poor father and i can't arrange mirrage with the rich woman's daughter, be care my son. hahahahahaha.

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## Assault Rifle

According to RED Flag 16-4 tentative flagsheet on reddit.com/r/aviation_ a private sub reddit run by military aviation enthusiasts including some USAF personnel; the Israeli and PAF contingents will be on separate team with different objectives; PAF and Spanish F-16s will be part of Escort team which will fly together with interdiction team of strike aircraft to provide cover to them.
Whereas Israeli F-16s will be part of the SEAD team.Situation on UAE is unclear.Last year Israeli F-15s formed part of Red Team Air.

This is not surprising at all as this can also be seen in the currently ongoing Russian Army Games 2016 where both India and Pakistan are participating but are in different exercises, India is participating in Tank and Sniper exercises whereas Pakistan is in MANPADs exercise.


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## shah1398

omega supremme said:


> i don't think Pakistan will do joint exercise with the israelis, the news channel is trying to make the news sensational



It wud be interesting to see if the same news channels wud make the news sensational in case there are any active engagements between the two air forces ever in the future? They aint playing with each other but wud rather be trying hard to shoot down each other (the one who gets a red lock and pushes the button is the winner here). Has anyone got any objection to that?


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## Windjammer

Assault Rifle said:


> According to RED Flag 16-4 tentative flagsheet on reddit.com/r/aviation_ a private sub reddit run by military aviation enthusiasts including some USAF personnel; the Israeli and PAF contingents will be on separate team with different objectives; PAF and Spanish F-16s will be part of Escort team which will fly together with interdiction team of strike aircraft to provide cover to them.
> Whereas Israeli F-16s will be part of the SEAD team.Situation on UAE is unclear.Last year Israeli F-15s formed part of Red Team Air.
> 
> This is not surprising at all as this can also be seen in the currently ongoing Russian Army Games 2016 where both India and Pakistan are participating but are in different exercises, India is participating in Tank and Sniper exercises whereas Pakistan is in MANPADs exercise.


Wrong info, as @gambit pointed out earlier that where as Green Flag incorporates the ground strikes interdiction, Red Flag is purely air to air.

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## Assault Rifle

@Windjammer
Interdiction teams have been part of every recent red flag exercises.
http://www.dreamlandresort.com/info/flag_units.html#16-3


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## rockstarIN

Windjammer said:


> Wrong info, as @gambit pointed out earlier that where as Green Flag incorporates the ground strikes interdiction, Red Flag is purely air to air.



Each Red Flag exercise normally involves a variety of fighter interdiction, attack/strike, air superiority, enemy air defense suppression, airlift, air refueling and reconnaissance missions


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## X-2.

Windjammer said:


> Israel Air Force to Participate in U.S. Drill Alongside Pakistani, U.A.E. Jets
> Israel sending land and air crews, as well as F-16 jets, to Red Flag air-to-air combat exercise at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada.
> 
> Gili Cohen Aug 03, 2016 8:36 AM
> 
> The Israel Air Force is set to take part in a large-scale aerial exercise in the United States later this month. According to...
> read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.734899



Good one for pak air force 

What if pak jets go single handed dog fight wd Israelis 
Pakistan have superiority over Israelis on Arab Israel war


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## WaLeEdK2

This should be fun @ The Sandman

Very excited to see the results.


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## New Resolve

Yeah im not so sure about that, anyway hope we win.


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## IceCold

Whats the point going against the likes of F-22 and F-35 when you wont even see them on your radar. I remember couple of years back there was a similar exercise somewhere in the middleeast and Americans did brought their F-22 while UAE had their most advanced F-16s and Pakistan was flying the F-7s. Both PAF and UAE were not able to spot F-22 and in all engagements the F-22 won. 
So from a novice point of view how does it help gain any experience when you cant pickup on your radar and its always a one sided fight? 
Another thing how come we never take JF-17 to such exercises. Shouldnt we pitch against the best the world has to offer and see where the shortcomings lie if any. @Windjammer

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## WaLeEdK2

Genghis khan1 said:


> I guess this time they will be prepared, what to do what not to, Plus unlike Anatolian eagle, IDF can ask US to rigged the field a little for them in role assignment, to reduce their interaction with PAF or to safeguard their techniques.



And I don't think they'll do that. The point of an exercise is to see how prepared and ready you are. The Israelis obviously know that rigging the field isn't going to help them at all. There's no shame in losing an engagement in an exercise. Its a chance for you to improve.


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## DavidSling

WaLeEdK2 said:


> And I don't think they'll do that. The point of an exercise is to see how prepared and ready you are. The Israelis obviously know that rigging the field isn't going to help them at all. There's no shame in losing an engagement in an exercise. Its a chance for you to improve.


Who said anything about losing?


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## WaLeEdK2

DavidSling said:


> Who said anything about losing?



I never said they will. But I'm saying that if they lose.


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## Genghis khan1

WaLeEdK2 said:


> And I don't think they'll do that. The point of an exercise is to see how prepared and ready you are. The Israelis obviously know that rigging the field isn't going to help them at all. There's no shame in losing an engagement in an exercise. Its a chance for you to improve.


USAF send their junior pilots to these exercise. They just collect data and learn. Some of these countries are just there to learn how other countries operate or just be a part of Uncle Sam Air Force carnival. While for US it way of extending political leverage. Countries do their real deal exercises within themselves or with selected Air Forces only.



DavidSling said:


> Who said anything about losing?


You know the psychology fear of losing, specially from the only Air-Force that already known for flying Russian junk on vacation and still scoring against IAF, That's a psychological victory already. Jewish media in US is pretty robust in portraying IDF as invisible, but we all know that's ain't true.

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## DavidSling

Genghis khan1 said:


> USAF send their junior pilots to these exercise. They just collect data and learn. Some of these countries are just there to learn how other countries operate or just be a part of Uncle Sam Air Force carnival. While for US it way of extending political leverage. Countries do their real deal exercises within themselves or with selected Air Forces only.
> 
> 
> You know the psychology fear of losing, specially from the only Air-Force that already known for flying Russian junk on vacation and still scoring against IAF, That's a psychological victory already. Jewish media in US is pretty robust in portraying IDF as invisible, but we all know that's ain't true.


No one is invincible, neither is PAF altho people in this forum has some urban legends about it.
IDF still scored around 60-0 in those exercise against USAF is I'm not mistaken

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## New Resolve

Well in the interest of brotherly relations, UAE shud let us jump in their Block 60's, i hear the air conditioning is nice.


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## Genghis khan1

DavidSling said:


> No one is invincible, neither is PAF altho people in this forum has some urban legends about it.
> IDF still scored around 60-0 in those exercise against USAF is I'm not mistaken


Like I said, US usually send their junior pilots and by no means I am undermining IAF. I know Isreali Airforce take their job seriously.


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## Windjammer

New Resolve said:


> Well in the interest of brotherly relations, UAE shud let us jump in their Block 60's, i hear the air conditioning is nice.


What makes you think we haven't done that already. 









IceCold said:


> Whats the point going against the likes of F-22 and F-35 when you wont even see them on your radar. I remember couple of years back there was a similar exercise somewhere in the middleeast and Americans did brought their F-22 while UAE had their most advanced F-16s and Pakistan was flying the F-7s. Both PAF and UAE were not able to spot F-22 and in all engagements the F-22 won.
> So from a novice point of view how does it help gain any experience when you cant pickup on your radar and its always a one sided fight?
> Another thing how come we never take JF-17 to such exercises. Shouldnt we pitch against the best the world has to offer and see where the shortcomings lie if any. @Windjammer


It's not quite as basic as that, earlier even our F-7s had exercised with the F-22 and recall the comments of the Rapptor pilot.

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## niaz

Are we ‘Holier than thou’ meaning superior in piety & morality to Egypt, Jordan, Tunisia & Turkey that have diplomatic relation with Israel?

We all know that Pakistan is land of the pure but it does not mean that we would become impure if we participate in an exercise where Israeli Airforce is also present. Even the Saudis are now talking with Israel.

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## gambit

rockstarIN said:


> Each Red Flag exercise normally involves a variety of fighter interdiction, attack/strike, air superiority, enemy air defense suppression, airlift, air refueling and reconnaissance missions


Red Flag is primarily air-air.

Taking control of contested airspace is about clearing the way for other forces to attack enemy ground assets from the 3rd dimension. So in order to make the final days of the exercise as realistic as possible, Red Flag designers incorporate as much aspects of air power as possible.

That is why we have bombers at Red Flag.

http://www.afgsc.af.mil/News/Articl...take-off-to-participate-in-red-flag-16-2.aspx


> Ellsworth AFB's B-1 bombers and personnel left for Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada, to participate in Red Flag 16-2, one of the largest training exercises involving more than 100 aircraft, 3,000 deployed servicemembers and all four military services, Feb. 29.


The Bones went to Green Flag as well.

https://theaviationist.com/2014/11/23/b-1-at-green-flag-exercise/


> B-1 bombers, assigned to the 34th Bomb Squadron, from Ellsworth Air Force Base, South Dakota, have deployed to Nellis AFB, Nevada, to take part in Green Flag-West exercise.


Red Flag is more comprehensive, but its focus is on how to clear contested airspace.

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## volatile

IceCold said:


> Another thing how come we never take JF-17 to such exercises. Shouldnt we pitch against the best the world has to offer and see where the shortcomings lie if any. @Windjammer



1. Nato compatable equipment Only 
2. We recently have some drills against Flankers and F15 in KSA


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## Zibago

I fail to see it being an issue


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## tore

We should not make an issue out of who participates in this exercise. But rather focus on learning.

Pakistan has no issu with Israel, look at it as another neutral country like Finland, Sweden or Brazil.


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## IceCold

volatile said:


> 1. Nato compatable equipment Only
> 2. We recently have some drills against Flankers and F15 in KSA



How exactly was India SU-30 a Nato compatable equipment? They did participate with them in red flag.



Windjammer said:


> It's not quite as basic as that, earlier even our F-7s had exercised with the F-22 and recall the comments of the Rapptor pilot.


Isnt this the pic from the same exercise i am referring too? I cant recall his exact comments but it was something related to the agility of these small planes.


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## volatile

IceCold said:


> How exactly was India SU-30 a Nato compatable equipment? They did participate with them in red flag.


Yes you are right and valid observation ,Infact IAF was very much dependent on 3rd party system to do this ,information here is from 2012 and after that they have participated 

IAF pilots shared tactical information with RAF pilots in their formations using radio communications since the IAF's data-link system (which shares critical sensor data with friendly aircraft) was not compatible with the Link 16 system in use with NATO aircraft like the Typhoon.
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indian-air-forces-top-guns-score-wins-in-the-uk-1204336

*Indigenous software makes Su30-MKI more compatible*
AGENCIES Aug 23, 2008, 04.21pm IST





*NEW DELHI: The Indian Air Force software experts from Bangalore based Software Development Institute (SDI) indigenously developed software patches to make Su30-MKI avionics compatible with NATO operational philosophy.

This wholly indigenous effort has saved valuable foreign. The IAF is participating in the exercise Red Flag, which is an advanced aerial combat training exercise hosted at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada in USA.*

Frontline Indian Sukhoi fighters are pitted against US and NATO air forces' F-16s and F-15s in complex and advanced network centric operations -- the toughest test for flying machines and men.

"The SDI software has made the Su30-MKI platform more versatile and compatible with other Air Forces," said Wing Commander JS Gavankar, Software Engineer from SDI presently with the IAF contingent at Nellis.

The avionics software developed by the SDI has reduced the cockpit workload and has assisted in increasing the pilots situational awareness multifold, said Wing Commander J Singh, Flt Cdr of 20 squardon.

IAF technicians ensured a very high availability of aircraft for all exercise related requirements, during exercise Red Flag despite scorching heat and average tarmac temperatures above 50 degrees Celsius during flying hours. The exercise concludes its operations on August 23.

During extreme heat conditions there is a tendency of the flying machines to develop snags such as leaks in hydraulic systems, engine oil, gear box etc. The performance of avionics system also becomes erratic as integrated circuits develop problems in extreme heat conditions.

However due to proper planning and hard work of IAF technicians, aircraft serviceability was kept high at all times.

Appreciating the IAF technicians Colpnel Corey, Maintenance Commander of USAF base Nellis said: "IAF has maintained amazing serviceability rate in a sustained manner during the entire exercise. This is because of in-depth planning, knowledge and focused approach of the maintainers."

Wing Commander JD Kapoor, Senior Engineering Officer of 20 Squardon said that IAF technical practices and systems are comprehensive and well defined and meticulous adherence to these have ensured high tarmac availability that allowed aircrews to perform their missions.

In some cased there were reports of IAF using AWACS to vectored there positions to enemy which resulted in many simulated losses in one of the excercise . So inorder to real time train Nato compatability plays an important part ,may be the reason JF17 left behind

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## GiG

shame for PAF for particapting with an Airforce which is killing Palasteniens regularly

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## Skywalker

GiG said:


> shame for PAF for particapting with an Airforce which is killing Palasteniens regularly


would you please stop acting like a kid here, emotions don't work in international politics, by your standard we should even be exercising with USA either yet we are doing it on a regular basis and you have no issues, so kindly keep your childish thoughts with you.

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## The Eagle

Great times ahead. Way to go guys. An ideal situation and an opportunity to learn more and polish the skills. 

People opposing participation only due to Israel should not forget that such boycott wouldn't bring anything but loss of an opportunity for learning and moreover, it will let us have a sight into many of everyone's tactics as well.

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## IceCold

GiG said:


> shame for PAF for particapting with an Airforce which is killing Palasteniens regularly



Ohh please. The world does not work like that. I suggest you lay off from the moral high horse of yours and smell the coffee. The whole bloody Middle East including SA is in bed with Israel. We on the other hand dont even accept them as a country despite the fact that we have no quarrel with them, not in way we have with India, yet Pakistanis dancing on indian tunes, their music, films, bollywood actors and actresses. Lets not be hypocrites for once.

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## Areesh

Assault Rifle said:


> According to RED Flag 16-4 tentative flagsheet on reddit.com/r/aviation_ a private sub reddit run by military aviation enthusiasts including some USAF personnel; the Israeli and PAF contingents will be on separate team with different objectives; PAF and Spanish F-16s will be part of Escort team which will fly together with interdiction team of strike aircraft to provide cover to them.
> Whereas Israeli F-16s will be part of the SEAD team.Situation on UAE is unclear.Last year Israeli F-15s formed part of Red Team Air.
> 
> This is not surprising at all as this can also be seen in the currently ongoing Russian Army Games 2016 where both India and Pakistan are participating but are in different exercises, India is participating in Tank and Sniper exercises whereas Pakistan is in MANPADs exercise.



This bharati bandariya is frustrated. Telling us about what India is doing and would do even when nobody is interested. Frustration is high.

@Windjammer

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## IceCold

volatile said:


> Yes you are right and valid observation ,Infact IAF was very much dependent on 3rd party system to do this ,information here is from 2012 and after that they have participated
> 
> IAF pilots shared tactical information with RAF pilots in their formations using radio communications since the IAF's data-link system (which shares critical sensor data with friendly aircraft) was not compatible with the Link 16 system in use with NATO aircraft like the Typhoon.
> http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indian-air-forces-top-guns-score-wins-in-the-uk-1204336
> 
> *Indigenous software makes Su30-MKI more compatible*
> AGENCIES Aug 23, 2008, 04.21pm IST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NEW DELHI: The Indian Air Force software experts from Bangalore based Software Development Institute (SDI) indigenously developed software patches to make Su30-MKI avionics compatible with NATO operational philosophy.
> 
> This wholly indigenous effort has saved valuable foreign. The IAF is participating in the exercise Red Flag, which is an advanced aerial combat training exercise hosted at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada in USA.*
> 
> Frontline Indian Sukhoi fighters are pitted against US and NATO air forces' F-16s and F-15s in complex and advanced network centric operations -- the toughest test for flying machines and men.
> 
> "The SDI software has made the Su30-MKI platform more versatile and compatible with other Air Forces," said Wing Commander JS Gavankar, Software Engineer from SDI presently with the IAF contingent at Nellis.
> 
> The avionics software developed by the SDI has reduced the cockpit workload and has assisted in increasing the pilots situational awareness multifold, said Wing Commander J Singh, Flt Cdr of 20 squardon.
> 
> IAF technicians ensured a very high availability of aircraft for all exercise related requirements, during exercise Red Flag despite scorching heat and average tarmac temperatures above 50 degrees Celsius during flying hours. The exercise concludes its operations on August 23.
> 
> During extreme heat conditions there is a tendency of the flying machines to develop snags such as leaks in hydraulic systems, engine oil, gear box etc. The performance of avionics system also becomes erratic as integrated circuits develop problems in extreme heat conditions.
> 
> However due to proper planning and hard work of IAF technicians, aircraft serviceability was kept high at all times.
> 
> Appreciating the IAF technicians Colpnel Corey, Maintenance Commander of USAF base Nellis said: "IAF has maintained amazing serviceability rate in a sustained manner during the entire exercise. This is because of in-depth planning, knowledge and focused approach of the maintainers."
> 
> Wing Commander JD Kapoor, Senior Engineering Officer of 20 Squardon said that IAF technical practices and systems are comprehensive and well defined and meticulous adherence to these have ensured high tarmac availability that allowed aircrews to perform their missions.
> 
> In some cased there were reports of IAF using AWACS to vectored there positions to enemy which resulted in many simulated losses in one of the excercise . So inorder to real time train Nato compatability plays an important part ,may be the reason JF17 left behind



Thanks for the detailed reply. If i am not wrong i think PAF also developed some sort of third party solution to have some sort of data link between JF-17s, SAAB Erieye and the F-16s. But never the less a solution is possible which can make JF-17 compete in international arena such as Red Flag.


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## Windjammer

Areesh said:


> This bharati bandariya is frustrated. Telling us about what India is doing and would do even when nobody is interested. Frustration is high.
> 
> @Windjammer


The reality is that although sometimes the news does leaks out but unlike others PAF never tells stories related to cricket scores.

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## Blue Marlin

they may be going some training with the f35.
courtesy of john mccain......


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## Areesh

Windjammer said:


> The reality is that although sometimes the news does leaks out but unlike others PAF never tells stories related to cricket scores.



And also never gets embarrassed by other air forces for such unprofessional behavior.

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## GiG

Skywalker said:


> would you please stop acting like a kid here, emotions don't work in international politics, by your standard we should even be exercising with USA either yet we are doing it on a regular basis and you have no issues, so kindly keep your childish thoughts with you.





IceCold said:


> Ohh please. The world does not work like that. I suggest you lay off from the moral high horse of yours and smell the coffee. The whole bloody Middle East including SA is in bed with Israel. We on the other hand dont even accept them as a country despite the fact that we have no quarrel with them, not in way we have with India, yet Pakistanis dancing on indian tunes, their music, films, bollywood actors and actresses. Lets not be hypocrites for once.


Vision of PAF:"To be among the most respected Air Force of the world."
and respect is only earned on high moral grounds 

Isreal is committing genocide of Palestine people if our forces cant save them then they should also not some fancy drills with the isrealis

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## Skywalker

a


GiG said:


> Vision of PAF:"To be among the most respected Air Force of the world."
> and respect is only earned on high moral grounds
> 
> Isreal is committing genocide of Palestine people if our forces cant save them then they should also not some fancy drills with the isrealis


And what is to do with us, the sooner this country come out of this umma crap the better, we have done enough in the past and got nothing in return.

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## Areesh

Assault Rifle said:


> @Areesh the pakistani kutiya has wet his pants after a dose of reality.



Only in bharat kutiya wear pants while millions of humans have nothing to wear. 

Don't worry bharati bandarya. Umkar Narray might be dead, you can make someone else from TTP as your father.

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## Ghazwa e Hind

Haaretz is a propaganda tool of Israeli establishment. Don't believe on what they report!
I think Israelis will back off if this is true.


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## volatile

IceCold said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply. If i am not wrong i think PAF also developed some sort of third party solution to have some sort of data link between JF-17s, SAAB Erieye and the F-16s. But never the less a solution is possible which can make JF-17 compete in international arena such as Red Flag.


You are correct that is called National solution and termed as Link 17 its a wider concept May i suggest if you have not gone thru to check quwa for more ,reason F17 is not part of such exercise yet is more reliable solution as in real war time scenarios every second counts


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## The Eagle

Ghazwa e Hind said:


> Haaretz is a propaganda tool of Israeli establishment. Don't believe on what they report!
> I think Israelis will back off if this is true.



The same news is also reported by another source as follows.

http://dailytimes.com.pk/pakistan/0...pate-in-us-drill-alongside-pakistani-uae-jets


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## IceCold

GiG said:


> Vision of PAF:"To be among the most respected Air Force of the world."
> and respect is only earned on high moral grounds
> 
> Isreal is committing genocide of Palestine people if our forces cant save them then they should also not some fancy drills with the isrealis


They are the best because they train with the best. What do you think will happen once we stop training? Has US not killed muslims? What about Indian genocide in Kashmir? Why do we have diplomatic relations with India? Please answer these questions.

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## A2Z

The news is good since if PAF goes against IDF then there will be something to learn. However IMO both the sides if even come face to face would play easy and wont reveal their tricks. On the other hand I think PAF pilots learn more when they go against chinese flankers, Turkish and Emirati F-16 or KSA's F-15s or Typhoons because there due to brotherly relations both the sides give their best.



IceCold said:


> How exactly was India SU-30 a Nato compatable equipment? They did participate with them in red flag.











These videos will give you an idea how IAF performed when their jets were not linked with others.

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## Raider 21

Windjammer said:


> Israel Air Force to Participate in U.S. Drill Alongside Pakistani, U.A.E. Jets
> Israel sending land and air crews, as well as F-16 jets, to Red Flag air-to-air combat exercise at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada.




This is not the first time they've worked together. Back when the first batch of PAF pilots (6 officers) that were converting on the Viper at Hill AFB, they flew in the same squadron with the IDF/AF pilots who were also there for the conversion course. Not sure if the second batch of PAF pilots (4 pilots) worked with any IDF/AF pilots that were present at that time.

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## tore

GiG said:


> shame for PAF for particapting with an Airforce which is killing Palasteniens regularly




People like you wants to isolate Pakistan . So many muslim countries have diplomatic relation ship with Israel now, Pakistan have no issu with them, its fine PAF is in USA to partisipate in the american exercise.

For you info Pak army will get no weapon from USA if israel protest to USA. So calm down.

Tum jese loog Pakistan ka koi faida nahi kar sakte to nuksaan to na karoo. Aqal istemaal karoo. Begin caring more about Indian occupied Jammu & Kashmir, then others conflict. Arab kick you in back, go to middle east and see youself.

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## weqi

GREAT , GREAT ,GREAT LEARNING FOR PAF



GiG said:


> shame for PAF for particapting with an Airforce which is killing Palasteniens regularly



PAF WILL LEARN HOW TO AND WHERE TO BITE


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## litman

@GiG dear we are allies of NATO and america, take dollars from america, F-16s from america, orders from america, have exercises with america and israel and ask "BARKAT" AND "RAHMAT" FROM ALLAH. isn't it laughable?? Like majority of other nations our whole economic system is based upon interest something so disliked in islam that it is said that such people are at war with Allah and the Prophet SAW. we are already hypocrites of the highest order. there is no doubt in it. we have zero understanding of islam, zero faith in the Quran , we keep Allah in mosque and and bow to so many gods of this world. now probably i will receive heavy flak but i have done my job. spread the message.

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## Super Falcon

Fact is Israeli copy of F 16 soufa is more superior than our F 16 blk 52 due to its radar and it's special air to air missile like Python and rafale


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## PakEye

Windjammer said:


> I once worked with an Israeli guy, in fact he was our crew chief, he had done marines service in Israel, he would often ask me that why the relations between Israel and Pakistan are strained since there's no conflict between the two....one thing for sure the Israelis do acknowledge the PAF.


What abou your wishes ?


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## Talwar e Pakistan

omega supremme said:


> i don't think Pakistan will do joint exercise with the israelis, the news channel is trying to make the news sensational


We need to learn from them.


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## MadDog

GiG said:


> shame for PAF for particapting with an Airforce which is killing Palasteniens regularly



Migrate to Palestine then , this is the most simplest solution to your problems !!!


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## DJ_Viper

Windjammer said:


> Israel Air Force to Participate in U.S. Drill Alongside Pakistani, U.A.E. Jets
> Israel sending land and air crews, as well as F-16 jets, to Red Flag air-to-air combat exercise at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada.



Now the results of this exercise would be fun to watch. The USAF, the IAF and the PAF simulated combat......three of the few top air-forces using the -16's with top training, pilots, combat record and the kill ratio.



Genghis khan1 said:


> I guess this time they will be prepared, what to do what not to, *Plus unlike Anatolian eagle, IDF can ask US to rigged the field a little for them in role assignment, to reduce their interaction with PAF* or to safeguard their techniques.



Really? Allow me to clear this up. If the IAF has decided to face off with the PAF, they won't cheap out. Nor can you do this in an air to air battle. The PAF will fire their simulated missiles and the IAF will fire from their equipment. The results will become available to all of us through different forums. Professional air-forces pride in how they train to fight. I can say that with 100% assurance for the USAF, the IAF and the PAF. The three of these air-forces have shown their combat readiness and professionalism whenever they had to. No doubt. 

I think this may be an opportunity to get the PAF and the IAF pilots acquainted with each other. And who knows, like Turkey, Pakistan might be looking into Israeli systems in the near future. If I was to guess, this is more of a let's bring two people together so their pilots can spend time and build respect and courtesy for each other. Meaning future relationships. Never hurts!

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## Paksanity

DJ_Viper said:


> Now the results of this exercise would be fun to watch. The USAF, the IAF and the PAF simulated combat......three of the few top air-forces using the -16's with top training, pilots, combat record and the kill ratio.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Allow me to clear this up. If the IAF has decided to face off with the PAF, they won't cheap out. Nor can you do this in an air to air battle. The PAF will fire their simulated missiles and the IAF will fire from their equipment. The results will become available to all of us through different forums. Professional air-forces pride in how they train to fight. I can say that with 100% assurance for the USAF, the IAF and the PAF. The three of these air-forces have shown their combat readiness and professionalism whenever they had to. No doubt.
> 
> I think this may be an opportunity to get the PAF and the IAF pilots acquainted with each other. And who knows, like Turkey, Pakistan might be looking into Israeli systems in the near future. If I was to guess, this is more of a let's bring two people together so their pilots can spend time and build respect and courtesy for each other. Meaning future relationships. Never hurts!




USAF, UAE, Israel and Pakistan- all four maintain a very professional and hard hitting air force. It will be one hell of an experience for everyone. PAF will likely return with a rich experience though I doubt anything will come out in public.


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## Oldman1

IceCold said:


> Whats the point going against the likes of F-22 and F-35 when you wont even see them on your radar. I remember couple of years back there was a similar exercise somewhere in the middleeast and Americans did brought their F-22 while UAE had their most advanced F-16s and Pakistan was flying the F-7s. Both PAF and UAE were not able to spot F-22 and in all engagements the F-22 won.
> So from a novice point of view how does it help gain any experience when you cant pickup on your radar and its always a one sided fight?
> Another thing how come we never take JF-17 to such exercises. Shouldnt we pitch against the best the world has to offer and see where the shortcomings lie if any. @Windjammer



That is a big problem with the training. Training with planes that cannot be seen. I believe the best way to train with stealth fighters is pretty much turn on their transponders. Or put on Luneburg lens to increase the RCS.

*The F-35 has hit another snag — this time because it is just too good*

The F-35 has hit yet another snag. During a recent exercise at Mountain Home Air Force Base in Idaho, US Air Force F-35A pilots set out to practice evading surface-to-air missiles, but they could not, because the SAM radars on the ground could not even find the ultra-stealthy planes.

"If they never saw us, they couldn't target us," said Lt. Col. George Watkins, commander of the 34th Fighter Squadron at Hill Air Force Base, Utah, told the  Air Force Times.

To participate in the exercise as planned, the F-35As had to turn on their transponders, essentially announcing their presence so the SAM sites could see and engage them.

"We basically told them where we were at and said, 'Hey, try to shoot at us,'" said Watkins.

Had Watkins and crew not turned on their transponders, "most likely we would not have suffered a single loss from any SAM threats while we were training at Mountain Home."

Air Force planners have been counting on the  F-35's ability to enter heavily contested airspace unseen by enemy radar and missiles, and the result of this exercise seems to vindicate that strategy, to say the least.

When we go to train, it's really an unfair fight for the guys who are simulating the adversaries," Watkins continued. "We've been amazed by what we can do when we go up against fourth-gen adversaries in our training environment, in the air and on the ground."

The idea that F-35s can enter the most heavily defended air spaces on earth, pass by undetected by SAM sites and radars, and soften up those targets as well as legacy fighters represents the entire reasoning behind the trillion-dollar thrust to get this weapons system in the air.

Watkins said that with just four F-35s, he can "be everywhere and nowhere at the same time because we can cover so much ground with our sensors, so much ground and so much airspace. And the F-15s or F-16s, or whoever is simulating an adversary or red air threat, they have no idea where we're at and they can't see us and they can't target us."


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## SQ8

litman said:


> @GiG dear we are allies of NATO and america, take dollars from america, F-16s from america, orders from america, have exercises with america and israel and ask "BARKAT" AND "RAHMAT" FROM ALLAH. isn't it laughable?? Like majority of other nations our whole economic system is based upon interest something so disliked in islam that it is said that such people are at war with Allah and the Prophet SAW. we are already hypocrites of the highest order. there is no doubt in it. we have zero understanding of islam, zero faith in the Quran , we keep Allah in mosque and and bow to so many gods of this world. now probably i will receive heavy flak but i have done my job. spread the message.



Please avoid using the Prophet and god as shoulder for blank firing when you have not read an iota of early Islamic history to justify it. Many weapons, good and other items were bought from the Aws tribe against Mecca; and arms were bought from Meccan trades for the siege of Aws and Khazraj. Weapons which came from Arabian, Persian and even Byzantium sources.

Please stop painting our Prophet as some stupid fool( Astafirullah) who lived in isolation.

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## RiazHaq

#Israel Air Force #IAF to participate in #American #RedFlag air-to-air combat drill with #Pakistan #PAF, #UAE

 AF
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.734899

The Israel Air Force is set to take part in a large-scale aerial exercise in the United States later this month. According to reports, teams from the Pakistani and United Arab Emirates air forces will also be taking part in the Red Flag air-to-air combat exercise in Nevada.
Israel will be sending land and air crews, as well as F-16 fighter jets, to the exercise, which is one of the biggest in the world. Haaretz asked the IDF spokesman to comment on the Israeli military’s policy on training with teams from Pakistan and the U.A.E. – countries Israel has no diplomatic relations with – but received no response.


The IAF has been preparing for the exercise over recent months, including the long-distance flight from Israel to the Nellis Air Force Base in southern Nevada. Flying the F-16s to the United States will require several fueling stops along the way, as well as midair refueling.

The IAF also participated in last year’s exercise, which simulates aerial combat fighting. The participating teams are put in a “blue” team and a “red” team, and these hold dogfights with one another.
Teams from the United States, Israel, Singapore and Jordan took part in last year’s exercise. At the time, it was reported in foreign media outlets that Israeli aircraft even refueled Jordanian jets en route to the United States for the exercise.
An IAF officer who took part in last year’s exercise called it “the biggest and best simulation of war in the world.”


The teams that took part in the exercise practiced intercepting aircraft, attacking targets, rescuing pilots and flying under the threat of anti-aircraft missiles.
The Nellis Air Force Base website didn’t disclose which air forces will be participating in the upcoming exercise. However, aerial enthusiast websites reported that teams from Spain and the U.A.E. will be taking part. Spain’s Ministry of Defense reported that the Spanish Air Force sent teams to the exercise last weekend. Pakistani media outlets also reported that Pakistani F-16s were en route to the United States.
The Aviationist, a website devoted to reports on military aviation, stated that Pakistani F-16s landed in Portugal 10 days ago, on their way to the exercise.


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## RiazHaq

http://www.riazhaq.com/2014/08/did-pakistan-pilots-carry-out-uae-af.html


*Did Pakistan Pilots Carry Out UAE AF Air Strikes in Libya?*

UAE fighter jets flying from bases in Egypt carried out airstrikes in Libya a week ago, according to US media reports. Question: Did Pakistani pilots working for UAE participate in these missions?

Targets were hit in the Libyan capital of Tripoli secretly without without informing the Obama administration beforehand. The first wave of airstrikes hit positions in Tripoli controlled by insurgent militias, including a small weapons depot. The second wave targeted rocket launchers and military vehicles owned by militias, the New York Timesreports.




UAE Air Force F-16E Block 60 
It is widely known that the vast majority of pilots working for the UAE Air Force are Pakistanis. The involvement of Pakistan Air Force in UAE began in 1970s with a training mission in the Gulf nation. Some of the servingPAF officers are on deputation, but most are on civilian contracts with the Air Force Headquarters in Abu Dhabi. Officers of other nationalities have also trained UAE pilots, among them Moroccans, Canadians, Jordanians, and South Africans.

After 1998 US-sanctions on Pakistan following its nuclear tests, the United States objected to plans by the United Arab Emirates air force to contract up to 200 Pakistan air force fighter pilots to fly F-16D Block 60 fighters it had ordered from Lockheed Martin. The deal was significantly delayed as UAE threatened to re-open the fighter competition to choose alternate suppliers. It was eventually resolved and the US agreed to deliver the purchased F-16s to UAE.

If Pakistanis indeed took part in these missions, it would raise several serious questions:

1. Were these PAF's serving pilots on deputation with UAE Air Force? Or retired officers on contract? If they were on deputation, did they seek permission from Pakistani government to accept these missions?

2. Will such missions drag Pakistan into ongoing Middle East conflicts and hurt Pakistan's interests in the region?

3. Will those targeted seek revenge against Pakistanis?

http://www.riazhaq.com/2014/08/did-pakistan-pilots-carry-out-uae-af.html

Although the results of such exercises (Red Flag in Las Vegas, NV) are rarely made public, the USAF jumped the gun. Just as it leaked the results of Cope India 2004, in November 2008 a video surfaced of a US Air Force officer talking in a generally condescending manner about the IAF. In particular five things that Col Terence Fornof said stick out:

The IAF has problems with its Russian jet engines
Indian pilots were prone to fratricide – shooting down friendly aircraft
The IAF required 60-second intervals between takeoffs, compared with half that for other air forces
The American F-15 can defeat the Su-30MKI, the most advanced fighter in the Su-30 series
IAF not keen on 1 vs 1 dogfights with the USAF.


http://in.rbth.com/blogs/2014/03/10/dissecting_a_dogfight_sukhoi_vs_usaf_at_red_flag_2008_33623.html


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## New Resolve

Is the UAE AF bringing their Mirage 2000-9, I really think we should buy their M2K-9's if the price is right.


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## litman

Oscar said:


> Please avoid using the Prophet and god as shoulder for blank firing when you have not read an iota of early Islamic history to justify it. Many weapons, good and other items were bought from the Aws tribe against Mecca; and arms were bought from Meccan trades for the siege of Aws and Khazraj. Weapons which came from Arabian, Persian and even Byzantium sources.
> 
> Please stop painting our Prophet as some stupid fool( Astafirullah) who lived in isolation.


yes the Prophet SAW traded with them when they were at peace and not war. this is a HUGE difference. and initially muslims were very weak but with the passage of time when they grew stronger they never tolerated any AGGRESSION. there is no way you can justify your alliance with those people who are responsible for destruction of entire muslim countries. put yourself in place of syrian muslims who have been humiliated and killed all over ME and europe due to proxy wars of israel, USA, turkey and saudia. i will ask from you where your time will come when no muslim country will come for your help rather then they will be having" good terms " with your killers. 
and regarding isolation Prohet SAW said that a time will come when the best asset for a muslim will be his sheeps whom he will take to away from cities in jungles and deserts inorder to save his faith. it means you have to decide what is more important to you . worldly gains or your faith? it is the most difficult time to be a true muslim. other wise keep on taking interest, be ready to fight with Allah, keep on obeying the enemies and enjoy the worldly benefits.


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## SQ8

litman said:


> yes the Prophet SAW traded with them when they were at peace and not war. this is a HUGE difference. and initially muslims were very weak but with the passage of time when they grew stronger they never tolerated any AGGRESSION. there is no way you can justify your alliance with those people who are responsible for destruction of entire muslim countries. put yourself in place of syrian muslims who have been humiliated and killed all over ME and europe due to proxy wars of israel, USA, turkey and saudia. i will ask from you where your time will come when no muslim country will come for your help rather then they will be having" good terms " with your killers.
> and regarding isolation Prohet SAW said that a time will come when the best asset for a muslim will be his sheeps whom he will take to away from cities in jungles and deserts inorder to save his faith. it means you have to decide what is more important to you . worldly gains or your faith? it is the most difficult time to be a true muslim. other wise keep on taking interest, be ready to fight with Allah, keep on obeying the enemies and enjoy the worldly benefits.



You are either a 15 year old kid or utterly stupid trying to give irrelevant examples and even outlying misquoting hadiath. A dishonest or delusional person is the least offensive term to describe your kind and definitely not one to have intelligent discussions on defence matters. Banned from thread.

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## Devil Soul

*Pakistan to take part in US air show*
By News Desk
Published: August 4, 2016
6SHARES
SHARE TWEET 





A F-16 fighter jet. PHOTO: REUTERS 

Pakistani aircraft will fly alongside United States, United Arab Emirates and Israel’s fighter jets in the US Air Force’s Red Flag exercise in Nevada later this month.

“For the second and fourth Red Flag, we will be including foreign players which include the United Kingdom, Australia, Turkey, Italy, Pakistan, United Arab Emirates, and Spain,” Colonel Jeffrey Weed, a Combat Training Squadron commander in the US Air Force, had announced.

*With or without the F-16s, Pakistan will remain a regional game changer*

According to the US _Aviationist _magazine, six Pakistani AF F16C/D Block 52+ combat jets landed at Lajes Field, Azores, along with two USAF KC-135R Stratotanker aerial refuelers from McConnell AFB on July 19. The aircraft belong to the n°5 Squadron ‘Falcons’ of the Pakistan Air Force. This is the second time PAF Vipers will take part in a Red Flag exercise, the very first time was in 2010.

Red Flag is considered the US military’s “premier air-to-air combat training exercise,” in which participating countries are divided into two teams and simulate dog fights to improve both their aviation skills and their military’s international connections, according to the US Air Force. In 2016, there will be four Red Flag exercises at the Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada. The first ran from January to February, the second from February to March and the third in July, while the final exercise will be conducted from August 15 to August 26, according to the US Air Force.

*Pakistan eager to secure first ever-order for the JF-17 at Paris Air Show*

The Israeli military has not officially commented on the presence of Pakistani and United Arab Emirates pilots at the Red Flag exercise, but mentioned that the drill was being run by the Americans and Israel sees itself as a “guest” of the country. However, earlier this year a senior IAF official stressed that in addition to their benefits for training, international military exercises can be seen as a form of “roundabout” diplomatic strategy.

_This article originally appeared onTimes of Israel._


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## Ghazwa e Hind

The Eagle said:


> The same news is also reported by another source as follows.
> 
> http://dailytimes.com.pk/pakistan/0...pate-in-us-drill-alongside-pakistani-uae-jets


It is a Pakistani paper giving reference of the original news of Haaretz. Lets see what is going to happen in the coming days. Air Cmdr (r) Sattar Alvi said that Israelis never engage you until they find a suitable environment in their favor.


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## GiG

IceCold said:


> They are the best because they train with the best. What do you think will happen once we stop training? Has US not killed muslims? What about Indian genocide in Kashmir? Why do we have diplomatic relations with India? Please answer these questions.





MadDog said:


> Migrate to Palestine then , this is the most simplest solution to your problems !!!





litman said:


> @GiG dear we are allies of NATO and america, take dollars from america, F-16s from america, orders from america, have exercises with america and israel and ask "BARKAT" AND "RAHMAT" FROM ALLAH. isn't it laughable?? Like majority of other nations our whole economic system is based upon interest something so disliked in islam that it is said that such people are at war with Allah and the Prophet SAW. we are already hypocrites of the highest order. there is no doubt in it. we have zero understanding of islam, zero faith in the Quran , we keep Allah in mosque and and bow to so many gods of this world. now probably i will receive heavy flak but i have done my job. spread the message.





weqi said:


> GREAT , GREAT ,GREAT LEARNING FOR PAF
> 
> 
> 
> PAF WILL LEARN HOW TO AND WHERE TO BITE


If you people like to get killed in salala,Abbotabad,Angorada or in FATA by NATO strikes then enjoy your brotherly relations with west.These countries are not respecting your sovereignty and your military is enjoying Exercises with them. Such military personal trained in west will tend follow there western leaders as seen in Turkey and Egypt.Its in our best interest to isolate our military establishment from west ,so they can defend the country against drones or NATO strikes,and can take action against the Israeli and Indian genocide committed in Kashmir and Palatsine,rather then imposing Miltary rule.
While some one is asking why do we have relation with India and America ,because they are legitimate states countries may have issues between them which can be solved through mutual dialogue.But in case of Israel the state is not legitimate foreigners occupied a land by force and terror and declare it a state


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## weqi

GiG said:


> If you people like to get killed in salala,Abbotabad,Angorada or in FATA by NATO strikes then enjoy your brotherly relations with west.These countries are not respecting your sovereignty and your military is enjoying Exercises with them. Such military personal trained in west will tend follow there western leaders as seen in Turkey and Egypt.Its in our best interest to isolate our military establishment from west ,so they can defend the country against drones or NATO strikes,and can take action against the Israeli and Indian genocide committed in Kashmir and Palatsine,rather then imposing Miltary rule.
> While some one is asking why do we have relation with India and America ,because they are legitimate states countries may have issues between them which can be solved through mutual dialogue.But in case of Israel the state is not legitimate foreigners occupied a land by force and terror and declare it a state



bole to YAHOOD O HUNOOD KI SAZISH

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## GiG

litman said:


> @GiG dear we are allies of NATO and america, take dollars from america, F-16s from america, orders from america, have exercises with america and israel and ask "BARKAT" AND "RAHMAT" FROM ALLAH. isn't it laughable?? Like majority of other nations our whole economic system is based upon interest something so disliked in islam that it is said that such people are at war with Allah and the Prophet SAW. we are already hypocrites of the highest order. there is no doubt in it. we have zero understanding of islam, zero faith in the Quran , we keep Allah in mosque and and bow to so many gods of this world. now probably i will receive heavy flak but i have done my job. spread the message.






weqi said:


> bole to YAHOOD O HUNOOD KI SAZISH


I am not a Anti Jew ,Anti Hindu fanatic


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## IceCold

GiG said:


> If you people like to get killed in salala,Abbotabad,Angorada or in FATA by NATO strikes then enjoy your brotherly relations with west.These countries are not respecting your sovereignty and your military is enjoying Exercises with them. Such military personal trained in west will tend follow there western leaders as seen in Turkey and Egypt.Its in our best interest to isolate our military establishment from west ,so they can defend the country against drones or NATO strikes,and can take action against the Israeli and Indian genocide committed in Kashmir and Palatsine,rather then imposing Miltary rule.
> While some one is asking why do we have relation with India and America ,because they are legitimate states countries may have issues between them which can be solved through mutual dialogue.But in case of Israel the state is not legitimate foreigners occupied a land by force and terror and declare it a state


@Oscar


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## weqi

GiG said:


> I am not a Anti Jew ,Anti Hindu fanatic


don't switch on your pc this is developed by a company situated and pay taxes to US government and US government bullshit our FATA area

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## The Eagle

Ghazwa e Hind said:


> Air Cmdr (r) Sattar Alvi said that Israelis never engage you until they find a suitable environment in their favor.



In my opinion, that was quoted with reference to battle-field though this is all about exercise to learn at a third party location.


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## GiG

weqi said:


> don't switch on your pc this is developed by a company situated and pay taxes to US government and US government bullshit our FATA area


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## Ghazwa e Hind

The Eagle said:


> In my opinion, that was quoted with reference to battle-field though this is all about exercise to learn at a third party location.


lets see!


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## Raider 21

RiazHaq said:


> *Did Pakistan Pilots Carry Out UAE AF Air Strikes in Libya?*



All load of BS. Pakistani pilots will never touch the Block 60 in UAE, the contract does not allow foreign military pilots (including US) to fly UAE F-16s. Only pilots from UAEAF and a few advisors as instructors from Lockheed Martin. UAE pilots have flew, led and conducted all those strike missions. Like I have mentioned before previously the only Pakistani pilots that are there these days are mostly flying PC-7s, PC-21s, and Hawk 63s that are all at the air college in Al Ain, and a few used to fly the Hawk 102 as IPs at Minhad but I have learned the last Pakistani IP has left that squadron. Some are on deputation from PAF, but most are on civilian contracts with the GHQ at Abu Dhabi.


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## RiazHaq

Knuckles said:


> All load of BS. Pakistani pilots will never touch the Block 60 in UAE, the contract does not allow foreign military pilots (including US) to fly UAE F-16s. Only pilots from UAEAF and a few advisors as instructors from Lockheed Martin. UAE pilots have flew, led and conducted all those strike missions. Like I have mentioned before previously the only Pakistani pilots that are there these days are mostly flying PC-7s, PC-21s, and Hawk 63s that are all at the air college in Al Ain, and a few used to fly the Hawk 102 as IPs at Minhad but I have learned the last Pakistani IP has left that squadron. Some are on deputation from PAF, but most are on civilian contracts with the GHQ at Abu Dhabi.




There are Pakistan pilots, ex PAF, who now work for and fly missions for UAE AF. The US bar doesn't apply to them.


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## Raider 21

RiazHaq said:


> There are Pakistan pilots, ex PAF, who now work for and fly missions for UAE AF. The US bar doesn't apply to them.


UAE GHQ has contracts for them to instruct only. But none of the contracted pilots ever flew nor fly F-16s and Mirage 2000s for UAE. I know lots of ex-PAF officers in UAE who are with UAEAF, all are flying with the Air College at Al Ain. The US contract on F-16 E/Fs does not allow Pakistanis to fly them and the same with the French contract for Mirage 2000-9s.


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## blain2

Super Falcon said:


> Fact is Israeli copy of F 16 soufa is more superior than our F 16 blk 52 due to its radar and it's special air to air missile like Python and rafale


And that means what exactly? What is the basis for such statements?



Knuckles said:


> UAE GHQ has contracts for them to instruct only. But none of the contracted pilots ever flew nor fly F-16s and Mirage 2000s for UAE. I know lots of ex-PAF officers in UAE who are with UAEAF, all are flying with the Air College at Al Ain. The US contract on F-16 E/Fs does not allow Pakistanis to fly them and the same with the French contract for Mirage 2000-9s.



While agreeing with your overall gist, I would like to add a couple of points.

The US cannot put in place a contract with the UAE where it singles out Pakistan to not be able to send its pilots to fly the aircraft. That is the sole decision of the government of the UAE, the sovereign, in this contract of ownership. The US can always put clauses like in order to avoid the ToT or pilfer, "no" foreign personnel can tend to the aircraft. In most cases these clauses are not for the life of the asset.

Secondly, contrary to continous cycling of rumors of Pakistanis being needed to fly, the facts are quite simple now. They start with the point that UAEAF has enough qualified pilots and instructors on each of the types they are flying. They do not need foreign pilots to fly their leading combat edge. Do we really think that in a country as large as the UAE, they cannot find enough pilots to maintain a 1:3 ratio of pilots on a fleet of about 120 aircraft (Blk 60 and dash 9)? The Emeratis take pride in flying and they are taking some of their best and putting them through very expensive and exhaustive training. In addition, they have invested a lot of time and hours on pilot training by having their folks repeatedly attend MNExs and with ATLC inaugurated at Hafra, they are doing a lot of sponsoring around the joint training. So they have a good structure in place to cater to their own needs around training and growing their force.

Lastly, Pakistan is not that important in the scheme of things for countries like the US and UAE to put a specific clause about prohibiting it. Its up to the UAE. If they need pilots they will ask the GoP (its all up to them, not up to the Amreekis and not up to us Pakistanis). Like the PIA of the past helping stand up Emirates, the UAEAF is a self-run, independent force now. They do not need PAF pilots to help them any longer and PAF is perfectly fine with that.

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## HAIDER

@blain2 ........look who's here...nice to see you sir..........


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## blain2

HAIDER said:


> @blain2 ........look who's here...nice to see you sir..........


Thank you sir ji! Hope you are well.


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## Raider 21

blain2 said:


> And that means what exactly? What is the basis for such statements?
> 
> 
> 
> While agreeing with your overall gist, I would like to add a couple of points.
> 
> The US cannot put in place a contract with the UAE where it singles out Pakistan to not be able to send its pilots to fly the aircraft. That is the sole decision of the government of the UAE, the sovereign, in this contract of ownership. The US can always put clauses like in order to avoid the ToT or pilfer, "no" foreign personnel can tend to the aircraft. In most cases these clauses are not for the life of the asset.
> 
> Secondly, contrary to continous cycling of rumors of Pakistanis being needed to fly, the facts are quite simple now. They start with the point that UAEAF has enough qualified pilots and instructors on each of the types they are flying. They do not need foreign pilots to fly their leading combat edge. Do we really think that in a country as large as the UAE, they cannot find enough pilots to maintain a 1:3 ratio of pilots on a fleet of about 120 aircraft (Blk 60 and dash 9)? The Emeratis take pride in flying and they are taking some of their best and putting them through very expensive and exhaustive training. In addition, they have invested a lot of time and hours on pilot training by having their folks repeatedly attend MNExs and with ATLC inaugurated at Hafra, they are doing a lot of sponsoring around the joint training. So they have a good structure in place to cater to their own needs around training and growing their force.
> 
> Lastly, Pakistan is not that important in the scheme of things for countries like the US and UAE to put a specific clause about prohibiting it. Its up to the UAE. If they need pilots they will ask the GoP (its all up to them, not up to the Amreekis and not up to us Pakistanis). Like the PIA of the past helping stand up Emirates, the UAEAF is a self-run, independent force now. They do not need PAF pilots to help them any longer and PAF is perfectly fine with that.



Great points I understand. I am just stating from what I've seen from when I worked there AND my dad flew a good 10 years on the Hawk 102 at Minhad as an IP. And yes the contract is still in effect when it comes to them operating Block 60s, Pakistanis are not allowed. Even the Turks did not allow PAF personnel on the Block 50s back in the 90s, this might have changed by now but I'm not sure about it. But the Block 60s clause is still there and by that I mean it is not strictly to Pakistanis, but to all non-Emirati pilots. The few non-Emirati pilots that fly them are advisors as instructor pilots from Lockheed Martin. 

And the same contract clause is also on the Mirage 2000-9s...otherwise the UAE were keen on getting Egyptian pilots at one point.


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## Windjammer

Equipped with an ACMI, a PAF Block-52 returns after a mission in Red Flag.

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## SOHEIL

Israel/Pakistan friendship... Step by step!

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## Zibago

Not an issue we go to the Asian ganes and olympics despite Israel participations i find it no different



SOHEIL said:


> Israel/Pakistan friendship... Step by step!


Inshallah

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## RAMPAGE

SOHEIL said:


> Israel/Pakistan friendship... Step by step!


Amen to that!

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## SOHEIL

Zibago said:


> Not an issue we go to the Asian ganes and olympics despite Israel participations i find it no different
> 
> 
> Inshallah





RAMPAGE said:


> Amen to that!

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## Zibago

SOHEIL said:


>


They are not that different frim India on Kashmir if you ask me

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## SOHEIL

Zibago said:


> They are not that different frim India on Kashmir if you ask me



So what's the problem?


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## Zibago

SOHEIL said:


> So what's the problem?


The opposition to Israel which most Pakistanis have is odd because the same criteria is fulfilled by another country

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## salarsikander

SOHEIL said:


> Israel/Pakistan friendship... Step by step!


Just like Inda and Iran. Still better love story than twilight

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## SOHEIL

salarsikander said:


> Just like Inda and Iran. Still better love story than twilight



So start your love story with Israel 

Best way to revenge!!!


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## salarsikander

SOHEIL said:


> So start your love story with Israel
> 
> Best way to revenge!!!


LOl Revenge with you ?? For ? Why the hell should we care ?

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## SOHEIL

salarsikander said:


> LOl Revenge with you ?? For ? Why the hell should we care ?



You don't care !?


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## MadDog

@SOHEIL 

Mate no one wants revenge, its just a multi national exercise !!!

On the side note, during our NSA's trip to Tehran , Pak & Iran have decided to counter rise of IS together !!!

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## Zibago

SOHEIL said:


> You don't care !?


Actually most Pakistani(90%) are against it only a few are ok with it

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## salarsikander

SOHEIL said:


> You don't care !?


Why the hell should we care what Iran thinks ? Should we



Zibago said:


> Actually most Pakistani(90%) are against it only a few are ok with it


Yet if it proves to be beneficial, we should. After All Iranians and most arabs countries do support India and Israel repectively to suit their interests. So why the hell should we be held back ?

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## Windjammer

*
A PAF Block-52D returns after a Red Flag mission, note the ACMI on the right wingtip.
*







@HRK @Stealth @Tipu7 @DESERT FIGHTER

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## Windjammer

Interestingly PAF has sent four Block -52D twin seat and two single seat F-16C.

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## Hell hound

inshallah 


Zibago said:


> Not an issue we go to the Asian ganes and olympics despite Israel participations i find it no different
> 
> 
> Inshallah





SOHEIL said:


> So what's the problem?


our text books which drill the concept that Israel is our enemy in children's mind at very young age making the child bias in this matter and mullahs with no sense of international politics

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## TOPGUN

SOHEIL said:


> So start your love story with Israel
> 
> Best way to revenge!!!





SOHEIL said:


> So start your love story with Israel
> 
> Best way to revenge!!!



They are not bothering us so why bother them... I think the real love story is between Iran & Israel


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## mingle

@Windjammer yaar why this time less pics of Redflag compare to 2010 ?


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## war&peace

They are reporting it because it is a rare event for them and rest of the world


Windjammer said:


> There's a reason that even the French are reporting the news.
> 
> 
> 
> *Israël va participer à un exercice militaire aérien US aux côtés du Pakistan*
> Par i24news
> Publié: 03/08/2016 - 10:11, mis à jour: 10:17
> 
> L'armée n'a pas souhaité commenter la participation du Pakistan (Haaretz)
> L'armée de l'air israélienne s'apprête à participer à un exercice militaire de trois semaines aux Etats-Unis, aux côtés notamment de pilotes pakistanais, a indiqué _Haaretz_ mercredi.
> 
> L'exercice annuel "Red Flag", qui mettra à l"honneur l'avion de combat américain F-16, doit débuter dans environ deux semaines dans le Nevada.
> 
> Les Emirats Arabes Unis devraient également y participer selon _Haaretz_.
> 
> Israël n'entretient pas de relations diplomatiques avec le Pakistan et les Emirats.
> 
> Interrogé par_ Haaretz_ sur les relations entre l'armée et ces deux pays, Tsahal a refusé de commenter.
> 
> L'exercice militaire comprendra des simulations de combat aérien ainsi que des exercices de couverture rapprochée pour le F-35, selon_ Business Insider_.
> 
> L'armée de l'air israélienne s'y prépare depuis des mois, a précisé _Haaretz_.
> 
> Après des années de retards et de dépassements de coûts, l'armée de l'air américaine a annoncé mardi que son chasseur F-35 était enfin prêt pour le combat.
> 
> Israël a déjà commandé un total de 33 F-35 et sera le seul pays du Moyen-Orient en possession du jet que l'armée américaine commence à peine à utiliser.


Where are you Marion mon amor? Again I'm facing two paragraphs full of French.



Genghis khan1 said:


> True, it will be a good exercise. but not what other members are implying. US or Israelis ain't giving out their jet secret or ultimate war tactics.


Nobody gives away war tactics ... If you are intelligent you can learn from their moves and this exercise provides the opportunity to interact with them and read their moves and strategies.

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## Beny Karachun

Windjammer said:


> Dude even then there is a reason why the Israelis backed out of exercising with PAF at one of the Anatolian Eagle exercises.


This was when the Turks were insulting the Israelis for bombing Gaza.


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## Windjammer

Beny Karachun said:


> This was when the Turks were insulting the Israelis for bombing Gaza.


Not quite sure what to make of your statement, you mean Turkey first invited Israelis, they accepted and then the Turks insulted them so they decided not to exercise with PAF. 
From what i understand, both the PAF and IDFAF operated from different parts of the base and went about their business.

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## Beny Karachun

Windjammer said:


> Not quite sure what to make of your statement, you mean Turkey first invited Israelis, they accepted and then the Turks insulted them so they decided not to exercise with PAF.
> From what i understand, both the PAF and IDFAF operated from different parts of the base and went about their business.


No you didn't get me
We were at the exercise until the Gaza wars, 2008 and such, and we stopped all diplomatic ties after the Marmara
the Turks said that Israel is doing war crimes and some more BS and then we just stopped training with them basically.


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## Windjammer

Beny Karachun said:


> No you didn't get me
> We were at the exercise until the Gaza wars, 2008 and such, and we stopped all diplomatic ties after the Marmara
> the Turks said that Israel is doing war crimes and some more BS and then we just stopped training with them basically.


Oh ok, but even when both air forces happened to be there, the Israelis refused to mix it with PAF.
Anyways, it's good both will participate together in Red Flag and learn from each others experience. 



mingle said:


> @Windjammer yaar why this time less pics of Redflag compare to 2010 ?



They are usualy released after the exercise has concluded.

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## Beny Karachun

Windjammer said:


> Oh ok, but even when both air forces happened to be there, the Israelis refused to mix it with PAF.
> Anyways, it's good both will participate together in Red Flag and learn from each others experience.


We are after all technically enemies.

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## Windjammer

Beny Karachun said:


> We are after all technically enemies.



Alas, keep your friends close and your enemy even closer.
From my interaction with a couple of Israeli military guys, there is a mutual respect at least between the two air arms.

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## Mentee

Beny Karachun said:


> We are after all technically enemies.


Well we ain't like your Semitic cousins  trust us and you'll get an affectionate friend out of us---- step by step


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## DavidSling

Some of the best air forces in the world training together, I see nothing wrong with it

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## Zibago

DavidSling said:


> Some of the best air forces in the world training together, I see nothing wrong with it


Neither do i

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## Hell hound

DavidSling said:


> Some of the best air forces in the world training together, I see nothing wrong with it


how can you see something which doesn't exists



Beny Karachun said:


> We are after all technically enemies.


are we?


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## Beny Karachun

Hell hound said:


> are we?


Well yeah, we don't have any diplomatic ties and most of the Pakistanis I've seen want to destroy Israel.


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## maximuswarrior

Zibago said:


> Neither do i



It should bother you. Israel is a country which openly supports and arms India against Pakistan. Israel has declared Pakistan an enemy state and the same applies from our side. We fully know that Israel is involved in various clandestine activities against Pakistan and Kashmir.

I'm certainly not against improving relations, but we need to tell Israel that it needs to stop its covert activities against Pakistan. Until it doesn't stop acting as a hostile state, relations can never be improved.

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## Beny Karachun

maximuswarrior said:


> It should bother you. Israel is a country which openly supports and arms India against Pakistan. Israel has declared Pakistan an enemy state and the same applies from our side. We fully know that Israel is involved in various clandestine activities against Pakistan and Kashmir.
> 
> I'm certainly not against improving relations, but we need to tell Israel that it needs to stop its covert activities against Pakistan. Until it doesn't stop acting as a hostile state, relations can never be improved.


What's so wrong with that? again, Israel is an enemy country with Pakistan. obviously we will arm India if so.

I am pretty sure it was Pakistan that armed and helped the Arabs in 1967, we never were against relations with anyone, I don't see us allies or friends with Pakistan any time soon under strict Islamic law when every Jew is killed or beaten up in Pakistan.


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## Hell hound

Beny Karachun said:


> Well yeah, we don't have any diplomatic ties and most of the Pakistanis I've seen want to destroy Israel.


those Pakistani also want to destroy america these guys have no sense of international politics and relations. neither these guys have enough political power to cause america or israel any harm.
we do share Intel with each other but we can't have diplomatic ties with you because of stupid arab pressure which our politicians can't handle. the day saudia open their embassy in tel aviv we will do the same.because it will give us the proper excuse we need to calm our people and other arab allies.



maximuswarrior said:


> It should bother you. Israel is a country which openly supports and arms India against Pakistan. Israel has declared Pakistan an enemy state and the same applies from our side. We fully know that Israel is involved in various clandestine activities against Pakistan and Kashmir.
> 
> I'm certainly not against improving relations, but we need to tell Israel that it needs to stop its covert activities against Pakistan. Until it doesn't stop acting as a hostile state, relations can never be improved.


we started it first we were the one who send those fighter pilot who destroyed their jets they returned us the favor ten folds.
they were the ones who extended their hand for friendship in 1948 but we rejected them.now you are crying when they join the indian side

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## Beny Karachun

Hell hound said:


> we started it first we were the one who send those fighter pilot who destroyed their jets they returned us the favor ten folds.


Its only a Pakistani claim...


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## Hell hound

Beny Karachun said:


> Its only a Pakistani claim...


you are free to reject it mate i can't force you believe it but i believe what our pilot told us


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## Beny Karachun

Hell hound said:


> you are free to reject it mate


I do.


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## Mugwop

Let's keep the politics out of this thread and focus on the drill


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## CriticalThinker02

Beny Karachun said:


> Well yeah, we don't have any diplomatic ties and most of the Pakistanis I've seen want to destroy Israel.



Pakistan has never officially threatened Israel, but if you still think Pakistan as enemies well that's good, regarding regular Pakistanis as you say wants to destroy Israel well I can also share many regular teenage Israelis wishing to wipe out Muslims and Arabs, examples below.

https://storify.com/davidsheen/israeli-army-the-next-generation


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## Zibago

maximuswarrior said:


> It should bother you. Israel is a country which openly supports and arms India against Pakistan. Israel has declared Pakistan an enemy state and the same applies from our side. We fully know that Israel is involved in various clandestine activities against Pakistan and Kashmir.
> 
> I'm certainly not against improving relations, but we need to tell Israel that it needs to stop its covert activities against Pakistan. Until it doesn't stop acting as a hostile state, relations can never be improved.


We ha e relation with Adghanistan and India i see it no different from Israel

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## Beny Karachun

Waqkz said:


> Pakistan has never officially threatened Israel, but if you still think Pakistan as enemies well that's good, regarding regular Pakistanis as you say wants to destroy Israel well I can also share many regular teenage Israelis wishing to wipe out Muslims and Arabs, examples below.
> 
> https://storify.com/davidsheen/israeli-army-the-next-generation


Pakistan armed the Arabs, that's a threat.
Also, I wonder, how come there are random girls there, and then the same guy twitting so?
And believe me there are Arabs much more worse than that.


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## WaLeEdK2

Beny Karachun said:


> Pakistan armed the Arabs, that's a threat.
> Also, I wonder, how come there are random girls there, and then the same guy twitting so?
> And believe me there are Arabs much more worse than that.



Many others arm Arabs. Are they a threat?


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## Beny Karachun

WaLeEdK2 said:


> Many others arm Arabs. Are they a threat?


Good point, but Pakistan supported directly the Arabs, they sent support troops but didn't manage to do anything.


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## WaLeEdK2

Beny Karachun said:


> Good point, but Pakistan supported directly the Arabs, they sent support troops but didn't manage to do anything.



Those were volunteers. They were acting on behalf of their personal desire. The state did not send them.


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## The Eagle

Kindly avoid off-topic discussion. Thanks

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## Windjammer

A clean Block-52 is put through it's paces above Nevada Desert.

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## Paksanity

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/216214

Interesting comments at the end of news.


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