# Strongest Empires by timeline



## Ottoman-Turk

This is as far as i know 

13-14th century Mongol

mid 15-17th century till 1683 Ottoman - Spain Second

France till from 1683 1812 (Napoleon)

Britian 1812 to 1880s - Germany

1915 to present USA

ALSO WHY DOESNT THE EUROPEON COLONISERS SAY SORRY FOR ALL THE DRAINING OF OTHERS WEALTH , GENOCIDES , SLAVERY THEY DID? INSTEAD FORMING COMMENWEALTHS AND FRANCOPHONES?

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## jetti

Roman empire?


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## Deno

Arabs.... Romans...... Greeks.... Persians..... Huns.... Chinese....

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## Alfa-Fighter

Ottoman-Turk said:


> MATE THIS IS AS FAR AS I KNOW I DNT NO ABOUT ANCIENT EMPIRES TBH you guys can write that down
> 
> ALSO WHY DOESNT THE EUROPEON COLONISERS SAY SORRY FOR ALL THE DRAINING OF OTHERS WEALTH , GENOCIDES , SLAVERY THEY DID? INSTEAD FORMING COMMENWEALTHS AND FRANCOPHONES?



The same reason you didn't recognize Armenian Genocide.

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## Deno

Alfa-Fighter said:


> The same reason you didn't recognize Armenian Genocide.

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## Gaara

Alfa-Fighter said:


> The same reason you didn't recognize Armenian Genocide.



Here is what Bernard Lewis, a British authority on middle east history, said about so-called armenian genocide:

"There is no evidence of a decision to massacre. On the contrary, there is considerable evidence of attempts to prevent it, which were not very successful. Yes there were tremendous massacres, the numbers are very uncertain but a million may well be likely, the issue is not whether the massacres happened or not, but rather if these massacres were as a result of a deliberate preconceived decision of the Turkish government... there is no evidence for such a decision."

If you think otherwise, you need to show your proofs about it. You know Turkey doesn't have to prove that such event did NOT happen, but the claimers have to prove such event happened because of the first fundamental law of "innocent until proven guilty" So, here we are, listening to you. Speak please.

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## forummurat

Ottoman-Turk said:


> 13-14th century Mongol



Where the ruins of this great empire? 
I can not see a trace! 
Obtained lands by the looting culture not a civilisation or empire!

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## Ottoman-Turk

yes thats true mongolians done that thats why their country is poor and they legacy is dust and hated also indians bow down to your white masters ahhahahahah 'GOD SAVE THE QUEEN' kiss the queens foot muahahah


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## manofwar

forummurat said:


> Where the ruins of this great empire?
> I can not see a trace!
> Obtained lands by the looting culture not a civilisation or empire!


Mongols are said to be a great empire not because of their unified culture, but because they had some of the best generals in their army. Their conquests all over Asia were amazing and they were the pioneers of many military strategies and impediments.
As for seeing a trace the traces of the great empire ruled by the yuan dynasty,established by Genghis Khan, can still be seen in China



Ottoman-Turk said:


> yes thats true mongolians done that thats why their country is poor and they legacy is dust and hated also indians bow down to your white masters ahhahahahah 'GOD SAVE THE QUEEN' kiss the queens foot muahahah


Dude- Are you a troll or are you a troll??

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## DRaisinHerald

Have you guys ever noticed that very few legal successors to former empires ever stood up on their feet again? eg. Italy being the "official" successor to the Roman Empire, it has been very weak for centuries now. 
Mongolia being the successor of the Mongolian Empire, they, as you know, are hardly even known to the world.
Similarly, after the collapse of the British Empire, the UK was reduced to nothing more than a US puppet.
France, Greece, the Arabs etc...non of them have still shown feats since their fall..

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## Ottoman-Turk

no i asked a question and your indian freind was being the troll and is telling the truth being a troll?


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## aakash_2410

Rusty said:


> Just more proof of Indians wanting to please their white master.
> 
> He is asking why your White masters don't apologize for colonizing you and you start attacking him.
> The whites have really brain washed you completely and looks like willingly on your end.


 
loool and you weren't colonized?

We had the same history till 1947.

Muslim Punjabis/Sindhis have been colonised since last 5000 years. No offence but its' true.

First 4000 years by Hindu/Buddhist kings,
Then by Arabs,
Then by Turks,
Then by Mongols,
Then by Afghans,
Then by Sikhs,
Then by Britishers.


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## The SC

The Umayyad Caliphate
(c. 661-750) was the second of the four major Arab caliphates established after the death of Muhammad PBUH.
Umayyad family originally came from the city of Mecca, their capital was Damascus. At its greatest extent, it covered more than five million square miles (13,000,000 km2), making it one of the largest empires the world had yet seen, and the seventh largest contiguous empire ever to exist.

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## Ottoman-Turk

listen mate i no this aint to me but the pakistani guy who you quoted but for me its not the colonizing thats the problem but how can you bloody join a commenwealth or whatever after? dont you feel embarresed , that is the bad thing for me its like you are proud you got ruled by them isnt that right? tell me if iam wrong if india or whover went out from the commenwealth today i will respect them 100 times more ( not indivuadally as i respect individuals on their actions etc but on general i will respect more)

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## World_Peace

Roman civilization/empire was the strongest hands down.
Longest democratic(500 B.C. almost till the birth of Christ)republic till date.
Empire which lasted the longest(till around 500 A.D.).Roman empire/culture( Byzantine Empire) then went onto last for another 6 to 700 years until the sack of Constantinople around 1200.


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## DRaisinHerald

aakash_2410 said:


> Then by Arabs,
> Then by Turks,
> Then by Afghans,



Hey, you can group them all together  We consider them "Muslim" rulers, and that's how history is remembered in Pakistan.

By the way, they technically weren't "colonisers", because after establishing their empires, they ruled from that same region unlike the Britishers, which ruled us directly from London

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## The SC

aakash_2410 said:


> loool and you weren't colonized?
> 
> We had the same history till 1947.
> 
> Muslim Punjabis/Sindhis have been colonised since last 5000 years. No offence but its' true.
> 
> 
> First 4000 years by Hindu/Buddhist kings,
> Then by Arabs,
> Then by Turks,
> Then by Mongols,
> Then by Afghans,
> Then by Sikhs,
> Then by Britishers.




4000 years ago the Punjabi/Sindhis were not Muslims. Islam is 1500 years old.

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## Ottoman-Turk

lol and i dnt think size matters really having the size the most important thing is what was the empires aims , their strength , how long they existed , how long were they strong for , how they treated people , their army and who they fought against , i wouldnt rate an empire who killed africans who fight with wood while they have guns or zulus just an example nearly non of the europeon colonisers actually invaded europe or tried they werent strong enough only napoleon was sstrong and he thought like 7 nations and hardly stopped thats why i rate him , ottomans fought nearly whole christian world , their main goals was religion and religious wars as pope etc called for christians world agains turks/ottomans at the time


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## manofwar

World_Peace said:


> Roman civilization/empire was the strongest hands down.
> Longest democratic(500 B.C. almost till the birth of Christ)republic till date.
> Empire which lasted the longest(till around 500 A.D.).Roman empire/culture( Byzantine Empire) then went onto last for another 6 to 700 years until the sack of Constantinople around 1200.


The Roman civilisation was powerful amongst the countries surrounding it. I doubt it could have won against the massive armies fielded by the Indian and Chinese kingdoms.

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## DRaisinHerald

The SC said:


> 4000 years ago the Punjabi/Sindhis were not Muslims. Islam is 1500 years old.



You see, outsides might think otherwise, but once Islam came, and Punjab and Sindh accepted it, we (I'm Punjabi) no longer though of the _Muslim_ rulers as outsides or foreign people who are imposing their rule on us, they technically became our people or should I say we became theirs

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## Ottoman-Turk

ye roman was strong aswell but i have not much idea about ancient ones tbh also i no abit about the 16 great turkish empires does anyone here no more about them , their in the presidential seal i no ottoman , seljuks and a few more


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## DRaisinHerald

Ottoman-Turk said:


> lol and i dnt think size matters really having the size the most important thing is what was the empires aims , their strength , how long they existed , how long were they strong for , how they treated people , their army and who they fought against , i wouldnt rate an empire who killed africans who fight with wood while they have guns or zulus just an example nearly non of the europeon colonisers actually invaded europe or tried they werent strong enough only napoleon was sstrong and he thought like 7 nations and hardly stopped thats why i rate him , ottomans fought nearly whole christian world , their main goals was religion and religious wars as pope etc called for christians world agains turks/ottomans at the time



Technology and unity. I think these 2 are far more important in determining the strength of an empire rather than overall numbers or area of land controlled. It was largely because of their pride in being Roman, and technological advancements that kept them strong until the end (until Christianity came anyway, they started to become weak after that).


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## Ottoman-Turk

lol turks are also nearly in everysingle game , age of empires 2 , 3 - civilization - medieval 2 total war , empire total war , napoleon total war etc that shows we were strong for a long long time not just ottomans but seljuks are init aswell


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## DRaisinHerald

Overall I think the best 2 empires in history have been the Mongols and the British. These 2 managed to grab land more than anyother, and kept it for a good while, while also imposing their language and culture on others. Success I say, lol

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## aakash_2410

Ottoman-Turk said:


> listen mate i no this aint to me but the pakistani guy who you quoted but for me its not the colonizing thats the problem but how can you bloody join a commenwealth or whatever after? dont you feel embarresed , that is the bad thing for me its like you are proud you got ruled by them isnt that right? tell me if iam wrong if india or whover went out from the commenwealth today i will respect them 100 times more ( not indivuadally as i respect individuals on their actions etc but on general i will respect more)



Not true at all mate.
India is only a part of Commonwealth Nations. It is not Commonwealth Dominion like Australia, Canada, Jamaica and stuff. Even Pakistan is a part of Commonwealth Nations. And many Arab countries like Algeria, Yemen and Sudan are also Commonwealth countries and in Indian history textbooks children are tought what sacrifices their ancestors had to give to get freedom and what atrocities were carried out on Indian public.

Being part of Commonwealth doesn't mean anything. India is republic. Head of the state and government can't be the Queen of England, they have to be Indian according to Indian constitution unlike Australia, Canada. Queen of England is not on our currency, it's our father of nation. It is only shared history with Britain why we are part of Commonwealth. It doesn't mean squ*t.

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## manofwar

Ottoman-Turk said:


> listen mate i no this aint to me but the pakistani guy who you quoted but for me its not the colonizing thats the problem but how can you bloody join a commenwealth or whatever after? dont you feel embarresed , that is the bad thing for me its like you are proud you got ruled by them isnt that right? tell me if iam wrong if india or whover went out from the commenwealth today i will respect them 100 times more ( not indivuadally as i respect individuals on their actions etc but on general i will respect more)


Thanks to Gandhi we ended the colonial rule on a positive not with the Brits. India in 1947 was not as progressive and prosperous as it is today. In simple words we needed economic help, guidance and an international voice. Sticking with the brits gave us that. Nehru made a smart political decision.

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## The SC

An empire involves the extension of a states sovereignty over external territories. the greatness of an empire is based on the extent, population, economy, duration and many other factors such as type of rule and government, satisfaction by its people etc. The calculation of the land area of a particular empire is controversial. In general, the sequence in list centers on all the aspects that make an empire mighty, strong and progressive and all the factors as mentioned that make a kingdom great.

10. *Akkadian Empire (2300 BC2200 BC)
*
The Akkadian Empire (2334 BC to 2083 BC) was an empire centered in the city of Akkad and its surrounding region (in Ancient Iraq). The Akkadian state was the predecessor of the ethnic Akkadian states of Babylonia and Assyria; formed following centuries of Akkadian cultural synergy with others, it reached the height of its power between the 24th and 22nd centuries BC following the conquests of king Sargon of Akkad, and is sometimes regarded as the first manifestation of an empire in history.

It was the first empire to manifest on the earth.
It reached record breaking size of its time and is considered the largest empire of dark ancient era  0.8 million km2 (2250 BC)


9. *Achaemenid Empire (550 BC330 BC) *

The Achaemenid Empire (ca. 550330 BC), also known as the Persian Empire, was the successor state of the Median Empire, ruling over significant portions of what would become Greater Iran. The Persian and the Median Empire taken together are also known as the Medo-Persian Empire, which encompassed the combined territories of several earlier empires. The empire was forged by Cyrus the Great, and spanned three continents: Asia, Africa and Europe. At its greatest extent, the empire included the territories of Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, parts of Central Asia, Asia Minor, Thrace and Macedonia, much of the Black Sea coastal regions, Iraq, northern Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Palestine, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, and all significant population centers of ancient Egypt as far west as Libya. It is noted in western history as the foe of the Greek city states during the Greco-Persian Wars, for emancipation of slaves including the Jews from their Babylonian captivity, and for instituting the usage of official languages throughout its territories. The Achaemenid Persian empire was invaded by Alexander III of Macedon, after which it collapsed and disintegrated in 330 BC into what later became the Ptolemaic Kingdom and Seleucid Empire, in addition to other minor territories which gained independence after its collapse.

It was the largest empire in ancient history. At the height of its power, the empire encompassed approximately 8 million km2
In universal history the role of the Persian empire founded by Cyrus the Great lies in their very successful model for centralized administration and a government working to the advantage and profit of all.


8. *Roman Empire (27 BCAD 476/1453)
*
The Roman Empire was the post-Republican phase of the ancient Roman civilization, characterised by an autocratic form of government and large territorial holdings in Europe and around the Mediterranean. The Roman Republic, which preceded it, had been weakened and subverted through several civil wars. Several events are commonly proposed to mark the transition from Republic to Empire, including Julius Caesars appointment as perpetual dictator (44 BC), the Battle of Actium (2 September 31 BC), and the Roman Senates granting to Octavian the honorific Augustus (4 January 27 BC). Roman expansion began in the days of the Republic, but reached its zenith under Emperor Trajan. At this territorial peak, the Roman Empire controlled approximately 6.5 million km² of land surface. Because of the Empires vast extent and long endurance, Roman influence upon the language, religion, architecture, philosophy, law, and government of nations around the world lasts to this day.

The powers of an emperor existed, in theory at least, by virtue of his tribunician powers and his proconsular powers In theory, the tribunician powers made the emperors person and office sacrosanct, and gave the emperor authority over Romes civil government, including the power to preside over and to control the Senate. The proconsular powers gave him authority over the Roman army.
Roman Empire achieved great territorial gains in both the East and the West. It had one of the strongest armies recorded.
The enduring Roman influence is reflected pervasively in contemporary language, literature, legal codes, government, architecture, engineering, medicine, sports, arts, etc. Much of it is so deeply inbedded that we barely notice our debt to ancient Rome. Consider language, for example. Fewer and fewer people today claim to know Latin  and yet, go back to the first sentence in this paragraph. If we removed all the words drawn directly from Latin, that sentence would read; The.


7. *Umayyad Caliphate (661750)*

A caliphate is the Islamic form of government representing the political unity and leadership of the Muslim world. The Caliphs position is based on the notion of a successor to Muhammads political authority. According to Sunnis, a Caliph can be any pious Muslim who is elected by the Muslims or their representatives; and according to Shia Islam, an Imam descended in a line from the Ahl al-Bayt.

The Umayyad Caliphate was the second of the four Islamic caliphates established after the death of Muhammad (PBUH). It was ruled by the Umayyad dynasty, whose name derives from Umayya ibn Abd Shams, the great-grandfather of the first Umayyad caliph. Although the Umayyad family originally came from the city of Mecca, Damascus was the capital of their Caliphate. Eventually, it would cover more than five million square miles, making it the largest empire the world had yet seen. The Umayyads established the largest Arab-Muslim state in history. From the time of prophet Muhammad until 1924, successive and contemporary caliphates were held by various dynasties, including the Rashidun Caliphate of the first four caliphs after Muhammad, the Umayyads based in Damascus and Córdoba, the Abbasids based in Baghdad & later in Cairo, the Fatimids based in Cairo, and finally the Turkish Ottoman Empire based in Istanbul.

Ummayads had the best administration system the world had yet seen. To assist the Caliph in administration there were six Boards at the Centre: Diwan al-Kharaj (the Board of Revenue), Diwan al-Rasail (the Board of Correspondence), Diwan al-Khatam (the Board of Signet), Diwan al-Barid (the Board of Posts), Diwan al-Qudat (Board of Justice) and Diwan al-Jund (the Military Board).
Fifth largest contiguous empire to ever exist.
Modern Arab nationalism regards the period of the Umayyads as part of the Arab Golden Age.


6. *Qing Dynasty (18901912)
*
The Qing Dynasty was the last ruling dynasty of China, ruling from 1644 to 1912 (with a brief, abortive restoration in 1917). It was preceded by the Ming Dynasty and followed by the Republic of China. The dynasty was founded by the Manchu clan Aisin Gioro in what is today northeast China, (also known as Manchuria). Starting in 1644 it expanded into China proper and its surrounding territories, establishing the Empire of the Great Qing. Complete pacification of China was accomplished around 1683.The Qing Dynasty was overthrown following the Xinhai Revolution, when the Empress Dowager Longyu abdicated on behalf of the last emperor, Puyi, on February 12, 1912.
During its reign the Qing Dynasty became highly integrated with Chinese culture.
The dynasty reached its height in the 18th century, during which both territory and population were increased.
It covered an immense area of 14.7 million km2 (1790) making it the 5th largest according to land mass.
It had the 4th largest %age of worlds GDP i.e 32.9% ($228.6 billion out of $694.4 billion in 1820)


5. *Russian Empire (17211917)
*
The Russian Empire was a state that existed from 1721 until the Russian Revolution of 1917. It was the successor to the Tsardom of Russia, and the predecessor of the Soviet Union. At one point in 1866, it stretched from eastern Europe, across Asia, and into North America. At the beginning of the 19th century, Russia was the largest country in the world, extending from the Arctic Ocean to the north to the Black Sea on the south, from the Baltic Sea on the west to the Pacific Ocean on the east.

It was the second largest contiguous empire the world has ever seen, surpassed only by the Mongol Empire, and the third largest empire the world has ever seen, surpassed only by the British Empire and the Mongol Empire .
The household servants or dependents attached to the personal service were merely set free, while the landed peasants received their houses and orchards, and allotments of arable land.


4. *Mongol Empire (12061368)
*
The Mongol Empire was an empire from the 13th and 14th century spanning from Eastern Europe across Asia. It emerged from the unification of Mongol and Turkic tribes in modern day Mongolia, and grew through invasions, after Genghis Khan had been proclaimed ruler of all Mongols in 1206. At its greatest extent it stretched from the Danube to the Sea of Japan (or East Sea) and from the Arctic to Camboja, covering over 24,000,000 km2 , 22% of the Earths total land area, and held sway over a population of over 100 million people. It is often identified as the Mongol World Empire because it spanned much of Eurasia. However, the empire began to split following the succession war in 12601264. By 1294, he Mongol Empire had already fractured into four separate empires, each pursuing its own separate interests and objectives.

It is the largest contiguous empire in the history of the world, and the second largest empire in history, after the British Empire.
Under the Mongols new technologies, various commodities and ideologies were disseminated and exchanged across Eurasia.


3. *Mughal Empire (15261858)
*
The Mughal Empire was an Islamic imperial power that ruled a large portion of Indian subcontinent which began in 1526, invaded and ruled most of South Asia by the late 17th and early 18th centuries, and ended in the mid-19th century.The Mughal Emperors were descendants of the Timurids of Turkistan, and at the height of their power around 1700, they controlled most of the Indian Subcontinentextending from Bengal in the east to Balochistan in the west, Kashmir in the north to the Kaveri basin in the south. Its population at that time has been estimated as between 110 and 130 million, over a territory of over 4 million sq. km (1.5 million sq. mi.). The classic period of the Empire started in 1556 with the accession of Jalaluddin Mohammad Akbar, better known as Akbar the Great. It ended with the death of Emperor Aurangzeb in 1707, although the Empire continued for another 150 years.

The Empire was marked by a highly centralized administration connecting the different regions.
All the significant monuments of the Mughals, their most visible legacy, date to this period which was characterised by the expansion of Persian cultural influence in the Indian subcontinent, with brilliant literary, artistic and architectural results. A major Mughal contribution to the Indian Subcontinent was their unique architecture. Many monuments were built by the Muslim emperors, especially Shahjahan, during the Mughal era including the UNESCO World Heritage Site Taj Mahal, which is known to be one of the finer examples of Mughal architecture.
The Indian economy remained as prosperous under the Mughals as it was, because of the creation of a road system and a uniform currency, together with the unification of the country. Manufactured goods and peasant-grown cash crops were sold throughout the world.
n the Mughal Empire, the 16th and 17th centuries saw a synthesis of Muslim scientists who are the pioneers of modern science.
It remained strong for longest duration above other empires and 4th largest population as compared to all other kingdoms  175.0 million in 1700.


2. *British Empire*

The British Empire comprised the dominions, colonies, protectorates, mandates, and other territories ruled or administered by the United Kingdom, that had originated with the overseas colonies and trading posts established by England in the late 16th and early 17th centuries. At its height it was the largest empire in history and, for over a century, was the foremost global power. By 1922, the British Empire held sway over a population of about 458 million people, one-quarter of the worlds population at the time, and covered more than 13,000,000 square miles (33,670,000 km2): approximately a quarter of the Earths total land area. As a result, its political, linguistic and cultural legacy is widespread. At the peak of its power, it was often said that the sun never sets on the British Empire because its span across the globe ensured that the sun was always shining on at least one of its numerous territories.

It was the largest empire by landmass covering 33.7 million km2 (1922)
It was the largest empire by population.
It had the second largest GDP size of $683.3 billion (in 1938) after the US in 1945
It had the largest percent of world GDP 35.9% ($399 billion out of $1,111 billion in 1870)
It had the largest military of all times.
During the rule, people were quite unsatisfactory with the government and many disputes arose therefore the empire was soon brought done like house of cards as soon as it emerged, therefore although being largest, it is on second number.


1. *Ottoman Empire (12991923)*

The Ottoman Empire also known by its contemporaries as the Turkish Empire. was an Islamic empire that lasted from 1299 to November 1, July 24, 1923 It was succeeded by the Republic of Turkey, which was officially proclaimed on October 29, 1923. At the height of its power (16th17th centuries), the empire spanned three continents, controlling much of Western Asia, Eastern and Southeastern Europe, the Caucasus, and North Africa. The Ottoman Empire contained 29 provinces and numerous vassal states, some of which were later absorbed into the empire, while others gained various types of autonomy during the course of centuries.

It existed at the globe for the longest period of time for 7 centuries.
The Ottoman legal system accepted the religious law over its subjects. The Ottoman Empire was always organized around a system of local jurisprudence.
The Ottoman Empire was, in principle, tolerant towards Christians and Jews.
Numerous traditions and cultural traits of this previous empire (in fields such as architecture, cuisine, music, leisure and government) were adopted by the Ottomans, who elaborated them into new forms and blended them with the characteristics of the ethnic and religious groups living within the Ottoman territories, which resulted in a new and distinctively Ottoman cultural identity.
By developing commercial centres and routes, encouraging people to extend the area of cultivated land in the country and international trade through its dominions, the state performed basic economic functions in the Empire.
The empire was at the centre of interactions between the Eastern and Western worlds for seven centuries.



DRaisinHerald said:


> You see, outsides might think otherwise, but once Islam came, and Punjab and Sindh accepted it, we (I'm Punjabi) no longer though of the _Muslim_ rulers as outsides or foreign people who are imposing their rule on us, they technically became our people or should I say we became theirs



Can not be said better.

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## Ottoman-Turk

lol mongolia break up very quick and britian , british empire lasted only like 300 years while only like 100 years was number 1 in world


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## DRaisinHerald

Ottoman-Turk said:


> lol mongolia break up very quick and britian , british empire lasted only like 300 years while only like 100 years was number 1 in world



300 years is still a long time, and Mongols also ruled enough to impose a large part of their culture on others.


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## World_Peace

DRaisinHerald said:


> Overall I think the best 2 empires in history have been the Mongols and the British. These 2 managed to grab land more than anyother, and kept it for a good while, while also imposing their language and culture on others. Success I say, lol



Can you elaborate on how or who accepted mongol civilization?


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## Ottoman-Turk

lol thats true nobody has mongol culture now or they had no civilization


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## World_Peace

DRaisinHerald said:


> Overall I think the best 2 empires in history have been the Mongols and the British. These 2 managed to grab land more than anyother, and kept it for a good while, while also imposing their language and culture on others. Success I say, lol


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## World_Peace

manofwar said:


> The Roman civilisation was powerful amongst the countries surrounding it. I doubt it could have won against the massive armies fielded by the Indian and Chinese kingdoms.


Buddy you should know that the roman army was one of the most disciplined.Yea the Indian kings could have troubled them a bit however they would have been victorious cause of better technology with them.Just think if they weren't near Mediterranean but lived near us then??


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## World_Peace

DRaisinHerald said:


> You see, outsides might think otherwise, but once Islam came, and Punjab and Sindh accepted it, we (I'm Punjabi) no longer though of the _Muslim_ rulers as outsides or foreign people who are imposing their rule on us, they technically became our people or should I say we became theirs



Such words can be spoken by only those who value their freedom very lightly.When US fought for independence from the English both were Christians.By your analogy if Iran conquers KSA or vice versa would the enslaved people live happily?Freedom and liberty are among the most cherished human traits no matter which religion you belong to!

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## DRaisinHerald

World_Peace said:


> Can you elaborate on how or who accepted mongol civilization?



Turkic cultures, if I'm not mistaken, takes alot from Mongol culture.

Khans. They're everywhere, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Bangladesh, West Asian "Stans". Where does this khan title (or surname as it is today) come from?



World_Peace said:


> Such words can be spoken by only those who value their freedom very lightly.When US fought for independence from the English both were Christians.By your analogy if Iran conquers KSA or vice versa would the enslaved people live happily?Freedom and liberty are among the most cherished human traits no matter which religion you belong to!



That's what I'm saying bro, in general the only ones that rebelled against the foreign Muslim invaders were you (no offence) Hindus and Sikhs. Call it wanting freedom or whatever, point is us Muslims didn't feel like our freedom was taken, and as I said, we essentially became one of them.

Don't compare us with the US, also the Saudi Arabians won't be happy because Iran is "Shia".

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## World_Peace

DRaisinHerald said:


> Turkic cultures, if I'm not mistaken, takes alot from Mongol culture.
> 
> Khans. They're everywhere, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Bangladesh, West Asian "Stans". Where does this khan title (or surname as it is today) come from?
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I'm saying bro, in general the only ones that rebelled against the foreign Muslim invaders were you (no offence) Hindus and Sikhs. Call it wanting freedom or whatever, point is us Muslims didn't feel like our freedom was taken, and as I said, we essentially became one of them.
> 
> Don't compare us with the US, also the Saudi Arabians won't be happy because Iran is "Shia".


Apart from surnames I don't think they have left anything.For the Turkish part I think some one from turkey could spread light on that.


Secondly i am not offended by any views by anybody because everyone has their POV.Coming to the point actually south India where I belong to never came under Muslim rule.Although our state was a proxy under the British still I feel we were under their rule so we were not having freedom.Maybe you have your own POV about freedom and you are always welcome to keep yours.
Moreover why can't I compare with US.Of KSA and Iran I said so because at the end of the day both are Islamic countries.Correct me if I am wrong.

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## DRaisinHerald

World_Peace said:


> Moreover why can't I compare with US.Of KSA and Iran I said so because at the end of the day both are Islamic countries.Correct me if I am wrong.



Reason you can't compare the Subcontinental Muslims and Muslim Conquerors to USA and Brit. Emp. is because the USA was essentially a colony to the UK whereas the Subcontinent became the home for these "invaders" later on.

For example the, they extracted all resources and invested them within the Subcontinent whereas the Brits extracted American resources and (largely) used them back home in Britain. I know it's not the best example lol, but just to give you an idea

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## Birbal

World_Peace said:


> Buddy you should know that the roman army was one of the most disciplined.Yea the Indian kings could have troubled them a bit however they would have been victorious cause of better technology with them.Just think if they weren't near Mediterranean but lived near us then??



The Indian armies of the Mauryan and Gupta empires were also quite disciplined. And the Romans did held little if any technological advantage over them.

I'd love to see the ancient Roman army deal with several thousand elephants.

It's a little harder to compare the Chinese to the Romans. Technologically, China was nearly always superior to anyone else, but to what extent it was able to put its technology to good practical use is an open question.



DRaisinHerald said:


> Reason you can't compare the Subcontinental Muslims and Muslim Conquerors to USA and Brit. Emp. is because the USA was essentially a colony to the UK whereas the Subcontinent became the home for these "invaders" later on.
> 
> For example the, they extracted all resources and invested them within the Subcontinent whereas the Brits extracted American resources and (largely) used them back home in Britain. I know it's not the best example lol, but just to give you an idea



Well it depends on the Muslim conquerors. There were those who decided to establish empires in the subcontinent and elsewhere and there were those who just wanted to loot.

Interestingly, many of the early English colonists also intended merely to establish their own administrations in India. It wasn't until the 1800s that they started looting India.

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## Yeti

Genghis Khan nothing else compares to him

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## Yeti

after that my fave is the *Chola dynasty*

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## World_Peace

Birbal said:


> The Indian armies of the Mauryan and Gupta empires were also quite disciplined. And the Romans did held little if any technological advantage over them.
> 
> *I'd love to see the ancient Roman army deal with several thousand elephants.*
> 
> It's a little harder to compare the Chinese to the Romans. Technologically, China was nearly always superior to anyone else, but to what extent it was able to put its technology to good practical use is an open question.



Well speaking about elephants perhaps you have heard abut Hannibal and his army of elephants.They got thrashed and by the third Punic war the Carthagians were made to bite the dust by the Romans.


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## forummurat

According my opinion Ottoman Empire are the most successful empire in the history.. 
Because Ottomans estabished a great empire and civilisation although strong enemies in the area that 3-4 times the crowd.. (Russia, England, France, Spain, Italy, Iran and various others)
And usually although the continuous war status..! 
The war such that sometimes against 3-4 great state at the same time..!!!
This is a great power.. Today USA can not dare to fought with another country after Afghanistan and Iraq..!

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## 500

Egypt
Assiria
Babylon
Persia
Macedonia
Rome
Arabs (Ummeyads, early Abbasides)
China (Tang, Song)
Mongols
China (Ming)
Ottomans 1520-1648
France 1648 - 1714
UK 1714 - 1914
USA

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## forummurat

500 said:


> Ottomans 1520-1648



*You are very measly.. 
Are you jeweler?*


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## Serpentine

From 500 BC to 600 AD Persia (First alone but then along with Romans) was the most powerful empire in the world.(I didn't mention the short period of Alexander rule in Macedonia)
Just to mention,i can't personally consider Mongols as an empire,they were some savages who didn't do anything for humanity except killing,destroying and burning anyone and anything,anywhere they reached.

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## forummurat

Era_923 said:


> From 500 BC to 600 AD Persia along with Romans were the most powerful empires in the world.



Yes alhamdulillah that Omar (r.a.) demolished that cruel state..
Do you like Omar (r.a.) ?


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## King Solomon

forummurat said:


> Yes alhamdulillah that Omar (r.a.) demolished that cruel state..
> Do you like Omar (r.a.) ?



Omer was a great man. He accomplished vast territorial expansion of the Islamic empire. Much of territory where the majority of population is muslims (esp. middle east) was achieved by the four caliphs (ra), who were genuine, true Muslims. Later dynasties struggled to just hold on to the territories which were conquered by the four caliphs.

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## 500

forummurat said:


> *You are very measly..
> Are you jeweler?*


You forgot to take pills again?



Era_923 said:


> From 500 BC to 600 AD Persia (First alone but then along with Romans) was the most powerful empire in the world.(I didn't mention the short period of Alexander rule in Macedonia)
> Just to mention,i can't personally consider Mongols as an empire,they were some savages who didn't do anything for humanity except killing,destroying and burning anyone and anything,anywhere they reached.


Only at the beginning. Ilkhane and Yuan states were quite advanced for their time.

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## Serpentine

forummurat said:


> Yes alhamdulillah that Omar (r.a.) demolished that cruel state..
> Do you like Omar (r.a.) ?


Yes and alhamdullilah allies demolished cruel ottomans.Do you like allied states?
I can't say anything else about your ignorance.If Persia was cruel,then i don't know what Arabs are.
And for the record,no i don't like Omar.

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## forummurat

Era_923 said:


> Yes and alhamdullilah allies demolished cruel ottomans.Do you like allied states?
> I can't say anything else about your ignorance.If Persia was cruel,then i don't know what Arabs are.
> And for the record,no i don't like Omar.



*like i guessed.. regrettably..! *
Did you make a war against non-muslims in the history?
I want to learn only..!

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## Ottoman-Turk

lol uk 1714 to 1914 you must be crazy maybe navy but not overall france was in napoleon times so what world you in only navy uk could defeat france at that time napoleons army fought nearly all of europe

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## nalandapride

Era_923 said:


> Yes and alhamdullilah allies demolished cruel ottomans.Do you like allied states?
> I can't say anything else about your ignorance.If Persia was cruel,then i don't know what Arabs are.
> And for the record,no i don't like Omar.



Well, the reality is mate, in the whole Middle East most of the contributions and inventions in science, technology,literature and art are from Iranians not the Arabs, Mongol or Turks. And this attitude is still seems among Iranians, even with huge reserves of oil and Gas Iranians do most of things themselves instead of depending on others.

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## Serpentine

forummurat said:


> *like i guessed.. regrettably..! *
> Did you make a war against non-muslims in the history?
> I want to learn only..!


Where were Muslims in the 500BC-600 Ad period?Get out of your hole and educate your self.



nalandapride said:


> Well, the reality is mate, in the whole Middle East most of the contributions and inventions in science, technology,literature and art are from Iranians not the Arabs, Mongol or Turks. And this attitude is still seems among Iranians, even with huge reserves of oil and Gas Iranians do most of things themselves instead of depending on others.


Thanks man.I hope every one was talking about their heritage instead of stealing others.Thats what our neighbors are doing.
And no need to talk about Indian culture and history,speaks for itself.

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## forummurat

Era_923 said:


> Where were Muslims in the 500BC-600 Ad period?Get out of your hole and educate your self.



i meant in the history of shia Iran..!

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## Serpentine

forummurat said:


> i meant in the history of shia Iran..!


Is it an honor to fight non Muslims?If it is,keep it to yourself,we don't want it.
What Muslim countries has Shia Iran attacked?

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## Insaan

Deno said:


> Arabs.... Romans...... Greeks.... Persians..... Huns.... Chinese....



Wont you include your own 'Ottoman Empire'?

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## Birbal

World_Peace said:


> Well speaking about elephants perhaps you have heard abut Hannibal and his army of elephants.They got thrashed and by the third Punic war the Carthagians were made to bite the dust by the Romans.



He had like a few dozen elephants which scared the hell out of the Romans. By the third Punic war all his elephants had already passed away.

Consider what would have happened if Hannibal had somehow managed to bring several thousand elephants with him.


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## Hack-Hook

500 said:


> Only at the beginning. Ilkhane and Yuan states were quite advanced for their time.


I don't consider Ilkhans and Yuan mongol any more their language were Chinese and Persian
they were only in name mongol but in reality they were assimilated by the conquered peoples.
if you don't tell people they were mongol some who look at the history mistake them for Chinese ,
Indians and Persians

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## Hack-Hook

forummurat said:


> *like i guessed.. regrettably..! *
> Did you make a war against non-muslims in the history?
> I want to learn only..!


well Russian army escaped from king Nader army,
we throw Portuguese out of Persian gulf .

we were the nation who stopped roman to advance in Asia
and we were the one who stopped Ottoman advance into
the east .

if you mean recent history then no ,we didn't made war against
anybody but the others made many wars against us.

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## Hack-Hook

forummurat said:


> Yes alhamdulillah that Omar (r.a.) demolished that cruel state..
> Do you like Omar (r.a.) ?



you know I don't like to enter this sunni - shia discussion and post some useless
comment , as one of the Muslims problem today is this debate .
but if you like it I can post this in response to you.

Yes alhamdulillah that God send his chosen Mojahid and great warrior Abu Lulu(r.a.) who killed that cruel tyrant..
Do you like Abu Lulu(r.a.) ?

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## The SC

nalandapride said:


> Well, the reality is mate, in the whole Middle East most of the contributions and inventions in science, technology,literature and art are from Iranians not the Arabs, Mongol or Turks. And this attitude is still seems among Iranians, even with huge reserves of oil and Gas Iranians do most of things themselves instead of depending on others.




ARAB CONTRIBUTIONS TO CIVILIZATION

The years between the seventh and thirteenth centuries mark a period in history when culture and learning flourished in North Africa, Asia, Southern Europe, and the Middle East. When one sets aside the vagaries of politics, intrigue, mistrust, and suspicion which have plagues Mans history, one finds that the Arab world continue to spin out the thread of earliest recorded civilization. It enhanced and developed the arts and sciences and preserved the libraries of the early centuries of the Greek, Roman, and Byzantine cultures. Indeed, during the Dark Ages of Europe, much learning was preserved for the world through the Arab libraries in the universities of Morocco (Fez), Mali (Timbuktu) and Egypt (al-Azhar). From this period of Arab influence, new words such as orange, sugar, coffee, sofa, satin, and algebra filtered into the languages of Europe and eventually into our own. New discoveries were made in the sciences and arts which improved the life and condition of Man, and thousands of Arab contributions have become an integral part of human civilization.

MATHEMATICS

In mathematics, the Arab sifr, or zero, provided new solutions for complicated mathematical problems. The Arabic numeral  an improvement on the original Hindu concept  and the Arab decimal system facilitated the course of science. The Arabs invented and developed algebra and made great strides in trigonometry. Al-Khwarizmi, credited with the founding of algebra, was inspired by the need to find a more accurate and comprehensive method of ensuring precise land divisions so that the Koran could be carefully obeyed in the laws of inheritance. The writings of Leonardo da Vinci, Leonardo Fibonacci of Pisa, and Master Jacob of Florence show the Arab influence on mathematical studies in European universities. The reformation of the calendar, with a margin of error of only one day in five thousand years, was also a contribution of Arab intellect.

ASTRONOMY

Like algebra, the astrolabe was improved with religion in mind. It was used to chart the precise time of sunrises and sunsets, and to determine the period for fasting during the month of Ramadan, Arab astronomers of the Middle Ages compiles astronomical charts and tables in observatories such as those at Palmyra and Maragha. Gradually, they were able to determine the length of a degree, to establish longitude and latitude, and to investigate the relative speeds of sound and light. Al-Biruni, considered one of the greatest scientists of all time, discussed the possibility of the earths rotation on its own axis  a theory proven by Galileo six centuries later. Arab astronomers such as al-Fezari, al-Farghani, and al-Zarqali added to the works of Ptolemy and the classic pioneers in the development of the magnetic compass and the charting of the zodiac. Distinguished astronomers from all over the world gathered to work at Maragha in the thirteenth century.

MEDICINE

In the field of medicine, the Arabs improved upon the healing arts of ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt.

Al-Razi, a medical encyclopedist of the ninth century, was an authority on contagion. Among his many volumes of medical surveys, perhaps the most famous is the Kitab al-Mansuri. It was used in Europe until the sixteenth century. Al-Razi was the first to diagnose smallpox and measles, to associate these diseases and others with human contamination and contagion, to introduce such remedies as mercurial ointment, and to use animal gut for sutures.

The famous scientist-philosopher known in Europe as Avicenna was Ibn Sina, an Arab. He was the greatest writer of medicine in the Middle Ages, and his Canon was required reading throughout Europe until the seventeenth century. Avicenna did pioneer work in mental health, and was a forerunner of todays psychotherapists. He believed that some illnesses were psychosomatic, and he sometimes led patients back to a recollection of an incident buried in the subconscious in order to explain the present ailment.

In the fourteenth Century, when the Great Plague ravaged the world, Ibn Khatib and Ibn Khatima of Granada recognized that it was spread by contagion. In his book, Kitabul Maliki, al-Maglusi showed a rudimentary conception of the capillary system; an Arab from Syria, Ibn al-Nafis, discovered the fundamental principles of pulmonary circulation.

Camphor, cloves, myrrh, syrups, juleps, and rosewater were stocked in Arab sydaliyah (pharmacies) centuries ago. Herbal medicine was widely used in the Middle East, and basil, oregano, thyme, fennel, anise, licorice, coriander, rosemary, nutmeg, and cinnamon found their way through Arab pharmacies to European tables.

ARCHITECTURE

As with astronomy and mathematics, the great purpose of early Arab architecture was to glorify Islam. Architects devoted their skills primarily to the building of mosques and mausoleums. They borrowed the horseshow arch from the Romans, developed it into their own unique style, and made it an example for the architecture of Europe. The Great Mosque of Damascus, built in the 4early eighth century, is a beautiful demonstration of the use of the horseshoe arch. The mosque of Ibn Tulun in Cairo, with its pointed arches, was the inspiration behind the building of many magnificent cathedrals in Europe.

Arab cusp, tefoil, and ogee arches provided models for the Tudor arch such as those used in the cathedrals of Wells in England and Chartres in France. The Muslin minaret, itself inspired by the Greek lighthouse, became the campanile in Europe. One of the most famous examples of this can be seen in the San Marcos Square in Venice.

Designs from the Islamic mosques of Jerusalem, Mecca, Tripoli, Cairo, Damascus, and Constantinople were borrowed in the building of ribbed vaults in Europe. The Arab use of cubal transitional supports under domes was incorporated into the cathedrals and palaces of eleventh and twelfth century Palermo.

Arab styles were elegant and daring. Arabesque designs, calligraphy, and explosions of color can be seen today in such structures as the Lion Court of the Alhambra Palace in Granada, the Great Mosque of Cordoba, and many of the great medieval religious and civic buildings of Europe.

While we as Westerners are more familiar with the influence of Arab architecture of the Romance countries of Spain, Italy and France, we do not often remember that the Arab empires reached into Eastern Europe and Asia as well. Startling remnants of a once powerful conquest are particularly prevalent in Russia. The brilliant blue tiled done of the Mosque of Bibi Khanum, Timus (Tamerlane) favorite wife, catches the visitors eye in Samarkand. Here, as well as in the complex of tombs called Shah-I-Zinda (the Living Prince), much of the old beauty is being returned to its former elegance through restoration.

NAVIGATION AND GEOGRAPHY

The worlds earliest navigational and geographical charts were developed by Canaanites who, probably simultaneously with the Egyptians, discovered the Atlantic Ocean. The medieval Arabs improved upon ancient navigational practices with the development of the magnetic needle in the ninth century.

One of the most brilliant geographers of the medieval world was al-Idrisi, a twelfth century scientist living in Sicily. He was commissioned by the Norman King, roger II, to compile a world atlas, which contained seventy maps. Some of the areas were therefore uncharted. Called Kitabal-Rujari (Rogers book), Idrisis work was considered the best geographical guide of its time.

Ibn Battuta, an Arab, must have been the hardiest traveler of his time. He was not a professional geographer, but in his travels by horse, camel and sailboat, he covered over seventy five thousand miles. His wanderings, over a period of decades at a time, took him to Turkey, Bulgaria, Russia, Persia, and central Asia. He spent several years in India, and from there was appointed ambassador to the emperor of China. After China, he toured all of North Africa and many places in western Africa. Ibn Battutas book, Rihla (journey), is filled with information on the politics, social conditions, and economics of the places he visited.

A twenty five year old Arab, captured by Italian pirates in 1520, has received much attention in the West. He was Hassan al-Wazzan, who became a protégé of Pope Leo X. Leo persuaded the young man to become a Christian, gave him his own name, and later convinced him to write an account of his travels on the them almost unknown African continent. Hassan became Leo Africanus and his book was translated into several European languages. For nearly two hundred year, Leo Africanus was read as the most authoritative source on Africa.

It should also be remembered that in the fifteenth century Vasco da Gama, exploring the east coast of Africa new Malindi, was guided by an Arab pilot who used maps never before seen by Europeans. The pilots name was Ahmed ibn Majid.

HORTICULTURE

The ancient Arabs loved the land, for in earth and water they saw the source of life and the greatest of Gods gifts. They were guided by the words attributed to the Prophet: Whoever bringeth the dead land to life? for him is reward therein. They were pioneers in botany. In the twelfth century an outstanding reference work, Al-Filahat by Ibn al-Awam, described more than five hundred different plants and methods of grafting, soil conditioning, and curing of diseased vines and trees.

The Arab contributions to food production are legion. They were able to graft a single vine so that it would bear grapes in different colors, and their vineyards were responsible for the future of wine industries of Europe. Peach, apricot, and loquat trees were transplanted in southern Europe by Arab soldiers. The hardy olive was encouraged to grow in the sandy soil of Greece, Spain, and Sicily. From India they introduced the cultivation of sugar, and from Egypt they brought cotton to European markets. May there always be coffee at your house was their expression, wishing prosperity and the joy of hospitality for their friends. Coffee was qahwah that which gives strength, and derivatives of that name are used today in almost every country of the world. They also perfected the storage of soft fruits to be eaten fresh throughout the year.

Arab horticulture gave the world the fragrant flowers and herbs from which perfumes were extracted. Their walled gardens were for the pleasure of the senses  a pine tree standing green and aromatic in the heart of a garden scented with jasmine; a fountain or artificial pool to delight the eye amidst lavender and laurel; a special rose garden blooming in riotous color, the roots injected with saffron to produce yellow, and indingo to produce blue; vines and trees injected with perfumes in the autumn flooding the air with fragrance in the spring; a weeping willow dripping gracefully into the middle of a clear lake; arbors and pergolas constructed where streams of water could bubble through them, cooling the air and giving relief from the heat of the desert. Mimosa and wild cherry lavished color against stonewalls, and cypress grew tall, close and straight bordering alleyways to obliterate from view all that was not pleasing.

Bulb flowers were already in a highly hybridized and cultivated state when the Crusaders carried them home from Palestine to western Europe toward the end of the centuries of Arab power. Rice, Sesame, pepper, ginger, cloves, melons and shallots, as well as dates, figs, oranges, lemons, and other citrus fruits, were introduced into European cuisine via the Crusaders and the trade caravans of Eastern merchants.

The women of Europe borrowed from the cosmetics first prepared by the Egyptians, Syrians, and Phoenicians. Some of these included lipsticks, nail polishes, eye shadow, eye liner (kohl), perfumes and powders, hair dyes (henna), body lotions and oils, and even wigs. A symbol of the vanity of the medieval ladies of European courts was the high peaked, pointed cap with its trailing veil of silk. This fashion of Jerusalem was called the tontour, and noble ladies of both the East and Europe vied with each other on the height of the tontour and the elegance of the fabrics used in the design of the face-framing millinery.

Much of our contemporary jewelry is a result of inspiration from adornments of the ancient and medieval Arabs, and the highly prized squash blossom design was once on the uniform bottle worn by Spanish Conquistadors.

OTHER SCIENCES

Concerning Arab contributions to engineering, one can look to the water wheel, cisterns, irrigation, water wells at fixed levels, and the water clock. In 860, the three sons of Musa ibn Shakir published the Book on Artifices, which described a hundred technical constructions. One of the earliest philosophers, al-Kindi, wrote on specific weight, tides, light reflection and optics.

Al-Haytham (known in Europe as Alhazen) wrote a book in the tenth century on optics, Kitab Al Manazir. He explored optical illusions, the rainbow, and the camera obscura (which led to the beginning of photographic instruments). He also made discoveries in atmospheric refractions (mirages and comets, for example), studied the eclipse, and laid the foundation for the later development of the microscope and the telescope. Al-Haytham did not limit himself to one branch of the sciences, but like many of the Arab scientists and thinkers, explored and made contributions to the fields of physics, anatomy and mathematics.

CRAFTS

Because the ancient Arabs believed that the arts served God, they raised small scale artistries to new levels of perfection. Glassware, ceramics, and textile weaves attest to their imagination and special skills. They covered walls and objects with intricately detailed mosaics, tiles, carvings, and paintings. Syrian beakers and rock crystals were in great demand in Renaissance Europe and the Azulejos. The iridescent luster pottery from the Moorish kilns in Valencia, also enjoyed great popularity. New glazing techniques were developed, and the brilliant blues took on many names. (The Chinese called them Muhammedan blues, and Dutch traders called them Chinese blues).

They were masters of silk weaving, and the Arab cape worn by Sicily's King Robert II on his coronation is one of the best examples of this delicate art. Cotton muslin, Damask linen and Shiraz wool became watchwords for quality in textiles in Europe.

One considers Moroccan leather to be of particularly fine quality. The Moroccan tanners of the Middle Ages developed methods for tanning hides almost to the softness of silk, and they used vegetable dyes that retained color indefinitely. These leathers were used for bookbindings, and the gold tooling and colored panels of the Arab style are still being produced, particularly in Venice and Florence to the present day.

The Arabs further developed the art of crucible steel forging. They hardened the steel, polished and decorated it with etchings, and produced tempered Damascene swords. Other works in metal included intricately cut brass chandeliers, ewers, salvers, jewel cases inlaid with gold and silver, and, of course, the beautifully decorated astrolabe.

LANGUAGE AND CALLIGRAPHY

Because God spoke to Muhammed in Arabic, Muslims venerated the Arabic language. Thus, to Muslims, Arabic calligraphy itself became an art form. It was the chief form of embellishment on all the mosques of the Arab world, and the religious and public buildings of Palermo, Cordoba, Lisbon and Malaga are resplendent with it.

The Arabic language is rich and pliant, and poetry, literature, and drama have left their mark on both East and West. Among the earliest publications of the Arabs were the translations into Arabic of the Greek and Roman classics  the works of Aristotle, Plato, Hippocrates, Ptolemy, Dioscorides and Galen. Some note that the poet Nizamis translations of the twelfth century romance, Layla and Majnun, may have been an inspiration for the later work, Romeo and Juliet. Ibn Tufails Hayy ibn Yaqzan (Alive, Son of Awake), considered by many to be the first real novel, was translated by Pocock into Latin in 1671 and by Simon Ockley into English in 1708. It bears many similarities to Defoes Robinson Crusoe. A Thousand and One Nights and Omar Khayyams Rubaiyat are among the best loved and most widely read of Arab literature. The fascination with Arabic, following the Hellenistic period of Louis XIV, is particularly evident in Shakespeares characterizations of the Moors (Othello and the Price of Morocco), in Christopher Marlowes Tamburlaine the Great, and in George Peels The Battle of Alcazar.

Besides influencing belles letters, the Arabs developed a system of historiography called isnad. This procedure documents all reliable sources and it provides the modern historian with accurate and comprehensive materials. Foremost among these historiographers was Ibn Khaldun, of whose Book of Examples Arnold Toynbee writes: Ibn Khaldun, has conceived and formulated a philosophy of history which is undoubtedly the greatest work of its kind that has ever yet been created by any mind in any time.

MUSIC

The harp, lyre, zither, drum, tambourine, flute, oboe and reed instruments are today either exactly as they were used from earliest Arab civilization or variations of the Arabs early musical instruments. The guitar and mandolin are sisters to that plaintive, pear-shaped stringed instrument, the oud.

The bagpipe was first introduced into Europe by Crusaders returning from the wars in Palestine. It quickly became identified with the British Isles. Once the entertainment of the lonely Arab shepherds, the bagpipe returned to Palestine with the British Army. This lost musical art was relearned during the period of Sir John Glubbs reorganization and command of Jordans colorful Bedouin Corps.

Arab poetry was put to music the subtle delicacy of minor key sequences and rhythm. The modes continue to influence our ballads and folk songs today. Extempore poetry was perfected into musical expression, and Arab wedding and other occasions are still celebrated with extempore versing and musical composition.

PHILOSOPHY

Arab philosophers effectively integrated faith and scientific fact, letting one exit within the framework of the other. The Arab philosophers after Byzantium re-discovered the classic philosophy of Aristotle, Plotinus, and Plato in attempting to find answers to the fundamental questions concerning Gods creation of the universe, the nature and destiny of the human soul, and the true existence of the seen as the unseen.

Among the well-known philosophers of the medieval world were al-Kindi, who contributed to the work of Plato and Aristotle; al-Farabi, who made a model of Mans community; Avicenna (Ibn Sina), who developed theories on form and matter that were incorporated into medieval Christian Scholasticism; Ibn Khaldun, who expounded the cycles of a state in his Muqqadimah (Introduction).

In discussing contributions to human civilizations of some of the medieval Arab scientists, artists, educators, philosophers, poets and musicians, one must remember that their thought was molded and shaped by many ancient cultures  Greek, Roman, Chinese, Indian, Byzantine, Canaanite and Egyptian, for example. Arab culture, from its ancient beginnings to the present, has given us three great monotheistic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In government and law, one refers to Hammurabi (Babylonian), Ulpian and Papinian (Phoenicians). Perhaps the greatest contribution of the Arabs to human civilization has been the phonetic alphabet.

In all aspects of our daily lives, then  in our homes, offices and universities; in religion, philosophy, science and the arts  we are indebted to Arab creativity, insight and scientific perseverance.

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## Hack-Hook

well the problem is many of those people in above article (let say a very large many) are Iranian that are stolen by some people and called Arab

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## BLACKEAGLE

If this Empire was not the greatest in the history, I don't know what it is...

*Umayyad-Empire
*

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## Vatoz

Knowledge is build on knowledge. To take Greek Persian Indian or what ever and give it importance was important for the Arabs. 
I would call angent reverse engineering. 

Isn't what the irans do today what Arabs did then?? Taking knowledge and trying to improve it. 

By the way the Mayans & Aztecs where some crazy civs.


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## Sashan

My list 

Egypt
Persian empire
Greece and Macedonia
Rome
Huns 
Eastern Romans
Salaudin 
Various Chinese empires - Qing, Qin, Yuan etc
Caliphates 
Maurya, Gupta, Chola (for their influence in far east)
Mongols 
Delhi sultanate
Timur
Ottoman
Mughals
Russia under Peter the great and Ivan the terrible
Austro-Hungarian empire
Third Reich
U.S
U.S.S.R
France under Louis XIV and Napolean (his administration is one of the best)
British empire 
Japanese empire 
Aztecs, Incans and Mayans
Siam 
Srivijaya 
Ranjit Singh

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## BLACKEAGLE

JEskandari said:


> well the problem is many of those people in above article (let say a very large many) are Iranian that are stolen by some people and called Arab



My friend, why wouldn't you mention the Persian scientists rather than posting useless comments?
Few Persians scientists flourished only under Arab rule, and they would never have been known without the motivating environment that was sponsored by kahalifahs. I am sure that your full name includes an Arabic one. But mostly, most Iranians have Arabic names not Persian ones. If you hate Arabs then don't dress like them nor using their names. And don't forget to abandon reading Qoraan in Arabic as well.

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## fly2012

This is from Wikipedia, empire ranking by land size during their peak time. It is probably not very scientific, for instance, Japan/Nazi was never in full control of the empire during WWII. Anyway, it is hard to compare empires without a convincing standard:

Empire Max Land area (million km2) 

British Empire 33.7
Mongol Empire 24.0
Russian Empire 22.8
Spanish Empire 20.0 
Qing Dynasty, China 14.7
Yuan Dynasty, China 14.0
Second French Colonial Empire 13.0 
Abbasid Caliphate 11.1 
Umayyad Caliphate 10.5 
Portuguese Empire 10.4 
Rashidun Caliphate 09.0 
Achaemenid Empire 08.75 
Empire of Brazil 08.5 
First French Colonial Empire 08.1 
Japanese Empire 07.4 
Ming Dynasty, China 06.5 
Han Dynasty, China 06.5 
Roman Empire 06.5 02.51 
Nazi Germany 06.4 02.47 
Göktürk Khaganate 06.0 
Golden Horde Khanate 06.0 
Macedonian Empire 05.2 
Ottoman Empire 05.2 
Mauryan Empire, India 05.0

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## BLACKEAGLE

fly2012 said:


> This is from Wikipedia, empire ranking by land size during their peak time. It is probably not very scientific, for instance, Japan/Nazi was never in full control of the empire during WWII. Anyway, it is hard to compare empires without a convincing standard:
> 
> Empire Max Land area (million km2)
> 
> British Empire 33.7
> Mongol Empire 24.0
> Russian Empire 22.8
> Spanish Empire 20.0
> Qing Dynasty, China 14.7
> Yuan Dynasty, China 14.0
> Second French Colonial Empire 13.0
> Abbasid Caliphate 11.1
> Umayyad Caliphate 10.5
> Portuguese Empire 10.4
> Rashidun Caliphate 09.0
> Achaemenid Empire 08.75
> Empire of Brazil 08.5
> First French Colonial Empire 08.1
> Japanese Empire 07.4
> Ming Dynasty, China 06.5
> Han Dynasty, China 06.5
> Roman Empire 06.5 02.51
> Nazi Germany 06.4 02.47
> Göktürk Khaganate 06.0
> Golden Horde Khanate 06.0
> Macedonian Empire 05.2
> Ottoman Empire 05.2
> Mauryan Empire, India 05.0


Persian "empire" is not even on the list!

Abbasid Caliphate: 11.1
Rashidun Caliphate: 09.0
Umayyad Caliphate: 10.5
Achaemenid Empire: 08.75


Afsharid Dynasty, Persia: 04.0

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## Birbal

BLACKEAGLE said:


> If this Empire was not the greatest in the history, I don't know what it is...
> 
> *Umayyad-Empire
> *



That's a false map. Here's the real map:

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## Hack-Hook

BLACKEAGLE said:


> My friend, why wouldn't you mention the Persian scientists rather than posting useless comments?
> Few Persians scientists flourished only under Arab rule, and they would never have been known without the motivating environment that was sponsored by kahalifahs. I am sure that your full name includes an Arabic one. But mostly, most Iranians have Arabic names not Persian ones. If you hate Arabs then don't dress like them nor using their names. And don't forget to abandon reading Qoraan in Arabic as well.


well the article above mentioned Ibn-e-Sina ,Al-Biruni ,Al-Razi ,Al-Khwarizmi ,al-Farghani ,Al-Fazari , al-Maglusi  ,Musa ibn Shakir , Al-Haytham ,Nizami ,Omar Khayyam ,al-Farabi

I don't get how the writer of that article considered all of those people as Arab . it's like you consider all the people who write articles and books in English or their books are translated to English as US or Englishman .
about under Arab rule you must know that Iran only was under Arab Rule in Ummayed dynasty and in Abbaside and Ummayed era it was Iranian ministers who run the country about scientist flourishing under Arab before Arab we Had Gundeshapur university before Islam which was the center of education in the world but we don't know the name of the scientist because Arab destroyed and burned all the books and documents after conquering Iran so don't talk about flourishing to me.

and who gave you the impression that Iranian dress like Arabs as I knew trousers are Iranian invention otherwise you wore skirt instead

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## Sasquatch

Mongol and British next Qing.

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## Hack-Hook

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Persian "empire" is not even on the list!
> 
> Abbasid Caliphate: 11.1
> Rashidun Caliphate: 09.0
> Umayyad Caliphate: 10.5
> Achaemenid Empire: 08.75
> 
> 
> Afsharid Dynasty, Persia: 04.0


go and educate yourself about Achaemenid

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## Insaan

I am actually going to add Jewish Empire. There is no map but we all know that they control North America, parts of Europe, and Israel...


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## Sasquatch

British Empire at the Height of it's power now look at the UK today. UK losing Scotland and the Falklands possibly.


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## BLACKEAGLE

JEskandari said:


> go and educate yourself about Achaemenid


Yah, I know they are ancestors of Arab Iraqis.

Ayatollah Seyed Ali Hosseini Khamenei: oops... Arab names?


I am sure this is a Persian dress:


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## Hack-Hook

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Yah, I know they are ancestors of Arab Iraqis.
> 
> Ayatollah Seyed Ali Hosseini Khamenei: oops... Arab names?
> 
> 
> I am sure this is a Persian dress:


well dear black eagle I didn't want to but you let no other choice for me about the article that made you mad
all what mentioned about Calendar and astronomy and calligraphy were Iranian doing and maragha were 
the place Iranian used for astrological studies .also half of what is said about architecture were Iranian doing
and the other half was Turks only a small part was Arabs . also if you search other scientist you'll see that the
majority of the remaining scientist were Spanish and European only small amount were original Arabs
also I hope this chart will show you in doing argument were are you ,maybe it help you to improve yourself

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## BLACKEAGLE

JEskandari said:


> well the article above mentioned Ibn-e-Sina ,Al-Biruni ,Al-Razi ,Al-Khwarizmi ,al-Farghani ,Al-Fazari , al-Maglusi  ,Musa ibn Shakir , Al-Haytham ,Nizami ,Omar Khayyam ,al-Farabi
> 
> I don't get how the writer of that article considered all of those people as Arab . it's like you consider all the people who write articles and books in English or their books are translated to English as US or Englishman .
> about under Arab rule you must know that Iran only was under Arab Rule in Ummayed dynasty and in Abbaside and Ummayed era it was Iranian ministers who run the country about scientist flourishing under Arab before Arab we Had Gundeshapur university before Islam which was the center of education in the world but we don't know the name of the scientist because Arab destroyed and burned all the books and documents after conquering Iran so don't talk about flourishing to me.
> 
> and who gave you the impression that Iranian dress like Arabs as I knew trousers are Iranian invention otherwise you wore skirt instead


Yah, they were flourished under Persian rule and thats why their full names are Arabic.


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## Hack-Hook

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Yah, they were flourished under Persian rule and thats why their full names are Arabic.
> 
> 
> Yah, they were flourished under Persian rule and that's why their full names are Arabic.


what's the point of name ,you want to say the Chinese and Japanese who have European names are European 
and the Indians who have Persian or Arabic name are Persians or Arabs ?
what's important is the depth of the culture , difference between Iranian and for example
the people of Jordan is that non of them were Arab to begin with but after Arabs invasion 
one groups become Arabs and another Group remain Iranian and come to the place that
whenever they liked changed the Abbasid and Ommayed Califs .

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## BLACKEAGLE

JEskandari said:


> well dear black eagle I didn't want to but you let no other choice for me about the article that made you mad
> all what mentioned about Calendar and astronomy and calligraphy were Iranian doing and maragha were
> the place Iranian used for astrological studies .also half of what is said about architecture were Iranian doing
> and the other half was Turks only a small part was *Arabs* . also if you search other scientist you'll see that the
> majority of the remaining scientist were Spanish and European only small amount were original Arabs
> also I hope this chart will show you in doing argument were are you ,maybe it help you to improve yourself


Oh yah live that dream. I will not report you just to keep clarifying things to you. Few Persians are just ungrateful to whom plucked them out of stench clutches of fire worshiping. sad


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## desiman

forummurat said:


> Where the ruins of this great empire?
> I can not see a trace!
> Obtained lands by the looting culture not a civilisation or empire!



shows you have no idea what the mongols were, I think you need to go educate yourself before you speak and look stupid.


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## BLACKEAGLE

JEskandari said:


> what's the point of name ,you want to say the Chinese and Japanese who have European names are European
> and the Indians who have Persian or Arabic name are Persians or Arabs ?
> what's important is the depth of the culture , difference between Iranian and for example
> the people of Jordan is that non of them were Arab to begin with but after Arabs invasion
> one groups become Arabs and another Group remain Iranian and come to the place that
> whenever they liked changed the Abbasid and Ommayed Califs .


Arabic names prove Arab great influence on other nations and cultures. You just don't talk about Jordan plz, that makes your ignorance even more ridiculous. I am proud to be an Arab.

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## VelocuR

I always dream of *Pakistan Empire* which can control the world ! 

Not possible.

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## BLACKEAGLE

RaptorRX707 said:


> I always dream of *Pakistan Empire* which can control the world !
> 
> Not possible.


Why not, Pakistani are great people.

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## DRaisinHerald

RaptorRX707 said:


> I always dream of *Pakistan Empire* which can control the world !
> 
> Not possible.



LOL! We barely manage to control our own people  ..the world Im-pos-sible


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## VelocuR

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Why not, Pakistani are great people.



Thank you, brother! 



DRaisinHerald said:


> LOL! We barely manage to control our own people  ..the world Im-pos-sible



Yep, maybe Pakistan will come to real sense in hundred years later in unity, discipline and vision. We need to act together something to make a great country ( and use many resources availables).

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## Surenas

I never seen so many historical faults in one topic. Beside that, we can name all the empires who where the strongest in their time, but I don't find that interesting. What is interesting is which empires where a 'hyperpower'. A hyperpower is 'a state that dominates all other states in every sphere of activity. A hyperpower is traditionally considered to be one step higher than a superpower.' Amy Chua wrote a book about the world's hyperpowers and according to her, only 7 empires in the world's history were true hyperpowers. According to Chua the 7 hyperpowers were: *Persian empire, Roman empire, Chinese empire, the Mongols, the Dutch, the British and the United States.*



Gaara said:


> Here is what Bernard Lewis, a British authority on middle east history, said about so-called armenian genocide:



Well, if you like to quote Bernard Lewis, I have another great quote of him:



> ''Iran was indeed Islamized, but it was not Arabized. Persians remained Persians. And after an interval of silence, Iran reemerged as a separate, different and distinctive element within Islam, eventually adding a new element even to Islam itself. Culturally, politically, and most remarkable of all even religiously, the Iranian contribution to this new Islamic civilization is of immense importance. The work of Iranians can be seen in every field of cultural endeavor, including Arabic poetry, to which poets of Iranian origin composing their poems in Arabic made a very significant contribution. In a sense, Iranian Islam is a second advent of Islam itself, a new Islam sometimes referred to as Islam-i Ajam. It was this Persian Islam, rather than the original Arab Islam, that was brought to new areas and new peoples: to the Turks, first in Central Asia and then in the Middle East in the country which came to be called Turkey, and of course to India. *The Ottoman Turks brought a form of Iranian civilization to the walls of Vienna...*"



^ This is also for Blackeagle who in all his ignorance think Iranians were Arabized.



BLACKEAGLE said:


> Few Persians are just ungrateful to whom plucked them out of stench clutches of fire worshiping. sad



How strange that you manage to handle a computer and speak English, while you are as ignorant as any desert roaming Arab! While we laid the foundations of philanthropy and righteousness and kindness in this world and held high the ensign of "Good Thoughts, Good Words and Good Deeds", you and your ancestors were desert wanderers who ate snakes and lizards and buried your innocent daughters alive.

I saw somebody else posting a article about Arab science, while the article funny enough listed almost only Persian scientist. The real contribution on Islamic science came from the Persians, and not from the Arabs. Let me quote the Arab Ibn Khaldun:



> ''Thus the founders of grammar were Sibawaih and after him, al-Farisi and Az-Zajjaj. All of them were of Persian descent&#8230;they invented rules of (Arabic) grammar&#8230;great jurists were Persians&#8230; *only the Persians engaged in the task of preserving knowledge and writing systematic scholarly works.* Thus the truth of the statement of the prophet becomes apparent, 'If learning were suspended in the highest parts of heaven the Persians would attain it"&#8230;The intellectual sciences were also the preserve of the Persians, left alone by the Arabs, who did not cultivate them&#8230;as was the case with all crafts&#8230;This situation continued in the cities as long as the Persians and Persian countries, Iraq, Khorasan and Transoxiana (modern Central Asia), retained their sedentary culture.''





> ''The Arabs dominate only of the plains, because they are, by their savage nature, people of pillage and corruption. They pillage everything that they can take without fighting or taking risks, then flee to their refuge in the wilderness, and do not stand and do battle unless in self-defense. So when they encounter any difficulty or obstacle, they leave it alone and look for easier prey. And tribes well-fortified against them on the slopes of the hills escape their corruption and destruction, because they prefer not to climb hills, nor expend effort, nor take risks.''



Joseph. A. Schumpeter:



> ''Persian-speaking Iranians made great contributions in the formation of Islamic intellectual history. *A great portion (and most of the best) of medieval Muslim philosophers, physicians, ethicists, scientists, Islamic jurists, historians, and geographers were Persian-speaking Iranians. *[....] A great many medieval islamic contributions to economic analysis, I will argue, were made by Persian-speaking Iranians writers: philosophers, ethicist, scientists, theologians and the writers of ''mirror of princes.''

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## King Solomon

Shia empires were a menace to Islamic influence. Shia empires of Nader shah and others attacked Moghul and Ottoman empire when all of them were Muslims. This greatly weakened Moghul and Ottoman empires which led to their downfall.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Surenas said:


> I never seen so many historical faults in one topic. Beside that, we can name all the empires who where the strongest in their time, but I don't find that interesting. What is interesting is which empires where a 'hyperpower'. A hyperpower is 'a state that dominates all other states in every sphere of activity. A hyperpower is traditionally considered to be one step higher than a superpower.' Amy Chua wrote a book about the world's hyperpowers and according to her, only 7 empires in the world's history were true hyperpowers. According to Chua the 7 hyperpowers were: *Persian empire, Roman empire, Chinese empire, the Mongols, the Dutch, the British and the United States.*
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you like to quote Bernard Lewis, I have another great quote of him:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ This is also for Blackeagle who in all his ignorance think Iranians were Arabized.
> 
> 
> 
> How strange that you manage to handle a computer and speak English, while you are as ignorant as any desert roaming Arab! While we laid the foundations of philanthropy and righteousness and kindness in this world and held high the ensign of "Good Thoughts, Good Words and Good Deeds", you and your ancestors were desert wanderers who ate snakes and lizards and buried your innocent daughters alive.
> 
> I saw somebody else posting a article about Arab science, while the article funny enough listed almost only Persian scientist. The real contribution on Islamic science came from the Persians, and not from the Arabs. Let me quote the Arab Ibn Khaldun:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joseph. A. Schumpeter:



why quote Amy Chau? She special or something? Just a Filipino with a typical non-science/math/engineering degree that got where she is from kissing up to the oligarchs.

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## Surenas

FairAndUnbiased said:


> why quote Amy Chau? She special or something? Just a Filipino with a typical non-science/math/engineering degree that got where she is from kissing up to the oligarchs.



Atleast she gives argumentations for her theory, unlike you who only can attack her on her ethnicity and other non-argumentated nonsense. She is a professor of a well-respected university and she have reached more in her life than you ever will.

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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> Atleast she gives argumentations for her theory, unlike you who only can attack her on her ethnicity and other non-argumentated nonsense. She is a professor of a well-respected university and she have reached more in her life than you ever will.


Oh! is that right?
She must be a "hyperidiot" then. To identify Persia as a hyper-power, while Empires such as Omayyad and Abassied, that turned conquered nations and cultures religions, languages, way of life, and every single aspect of their lives upside down, as superpower.is just sooo funny...

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## Surenas

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Oh! is that right?
> She must be a "hyperidiot" then. To identify Persia as a hyper-power, while Empires such as Omayyad and Abassied, that turned conquered nations and cultures religions, languages, way of life, and every single aspect of their lives upside down, as superpower.is just sooo funny...



If you're read her book maybe you can understand the kind of arguments she have for her theory. She doesn't give culturally arguments, but military and economically. Those empires you mentioned weren't at their time economically and military hyperpowers. And they weren't tolerant, a ingredient Chua see as the main reason for hyperpowers:



> *Day of Empire*
> 
> How Hyperpowers Rise to Global Dominance -- and Why the Fall
> 
> She uses the term hyperpower, and the first hyperpower she writes about is the Persian Empire of the Achaemenids, beginning approximately in 559 BCE and ending around 330 BCE. Tolerance in that age was different from tolerance today. The Achaemenids were typical conquering overlords. They liked order and wanted local kings to rule their people in accordance with local customs, including religion. They were tolerant as long as order was maintained. It is not the kind of tolerance the people who believe in democracy should appreciate or practice.
> 
> Why the Achaemenid Empire fell revolves around the question why Philip II of Macedonia saw the Achaemenid rule of Darius III as having grown weak and why Philip's son, Alexander, was able to defeat Darius militarily. Chua does not convincingly tie the fall of the Persian hyperpower to the issue of tolerance.
> 
> She does better with another hyperpower: the Roman Empire. She recognizes a variety of conflicting opinions on why the Roman Empire fell and puts forth intolerance as one ingredient. She discusses the Christian emperors, the conflict between pagans and Christians and among Christians. Writing about the invasions that fragmented the western half of the empire she writes: "The attacks on pagans and heretics proved deeply self-destructive, actually facilitating the encroachments." She quotes Montesque:
> 
> Whereas the ancient Romans fortified their empire by tolerating every cult, their successors [the Christian emperors] reduced it to nothing by cutting out, one after the other, every sect but the dominant one.
> 
> The question remains: why were "barbarian" warrior groups able to assert themselves militarily within the western half of the Roman Empire, thereby fragmenting that part of the empire? The subtitle of Chua's book asks why. Why was there so little participation by local people in the defense of their own area against fearsome armies? The answer involves a political system that alienated people rather than served their interests and rulers who were afraid of an armed citizenry. Tolerance was a subsidiary element.
> 
> Chua turns to China and the Tang Dynasty. The recognized end of the Tang Dynasty is 907. Chua writes that "Tang intolerance intensified" in the 800s. She mentions the intolerance of the Taoist Emperor Wuzong, who was anti-Buddhist and opposed to all foreign religions. Christian and Zoroastrian churches and temples were suppressed. "Regional warlords," she writes, "came to rule their own kingdoms, and the central government [lost] fiscal control." Then, she adds, "*etween 875 and 884, another series of uprisings shattered the empire." These are descriptions of conditions that do not necessarily contribute to an answer to the question why the Tang Empire fell. Chua says nothing about the contribution made by China's system of government -- rule by bloodline -- which eventually produced incompetent emperors, failed administrations and emperors perceived as having lost the Mandate of Heaven. The Tang Dynasty had the same system of government as the Western Han Dynasty and and fell for much the same reasond.
> 
> On the Mongols, Spain's Empire, the Dutch and the British, Amy Chua writes details that might be interesting to the average reader. About the British Empire she had to back away from her thesis, writing that her point "is emphatically not that 'alas, had only Britain been more tolerant it might still have colonies in Asia and Africa.' "
> 
> Amy Chua would like the U.S. to remain a tolerant nation. Her descriptions of the tolerance that was a part of the origins of the United States are valid enough. She describes the U.S. as a hyperpower, but writes,
> The United States would be far truer to its own history and principles striving to be an exemplar of the world -- a "city on the hill" -- rather than arrogating to itself the sisyphean task of remaking societies around the world in its own image.
> 
> It is a different world from what existed at the time of the Achaemenids or the Roman Empire. The kind of empires then were different from what some people today describe loosely as empire. U.S. society is not going to be overrun by the kind of conquering armies that existed back then, civilized or tribal. The kind of conquests that existed prior to World War II are no longer likely. We have the United Nations, which grew out of the failure of those who attempted conquest during that biggest of wars. Chua mentions the United Nations:
> 
> Theoretically, the United States might ... throw itself behind a new democratic world government ruled by international institutions under international law. In this scenario, there would still be a hyperpower, but it would not be the United States; it would be the world government to which the United Sates had ceded authority.
> 
> The United Nations was not designed to supercede the sovereignty of its members or to prevent members from forming a coalition for armed defense. Theoretically the United States could be just one member of a combination of powers devoted to international law and military power, acting not as a hyperpower but in concert with these other nations. And rather than any decline or fall being involved, there would be economic benefit. Some of us in the United States like to think that nothing good in the world can happen unless it is initiated by us. The people elsewhere in the world are helpless children without the moral compass that we possess -- a strange view given that we in the United States are made of the same human stuff as the rest of the world and have derived what we are politically from elsewhere, namely Europe.*


*

And many historians agree with her. There is no historian who put the Abbasid or the Omayyad empire to the list of hyperpowers.*


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## IbnAlwaled

JEskandari said:


> well dear black eagle I didn't want to but you let no other choice for me about the article that made you mad
> all what mentioned about Calendar and astronomy and calligraphy were Iranian doing and maragha were
> the place Iranian used for astrological studies .also half of what is said about architecture were Iranian doing
> and the other half was Turks only a small part was Arabs . also if you search other scientist you'll see that the
> majority of the remaining scientist were Spanish and European only small amount were original Arabs


If an American with an Indian ethnic background in LA made a substantial scientific advancement. Which country can add this to its scientific achievements? 
India or US?
Of course its the US. Therefore they are all Arab achievements.

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## Surenas

IbnAlwaled said:


> If an American with an India ethnic background in LA made a substantial scientific advancement. Which country can add this to its scientific achievements?
> India or US?
> Of course its the US. Therefore they are all Arab achievements.



The Indian you mention probably have a US passport, is a US citizen and consider himself a American. Non of this above is correlated with the Persians under the Islamic empire. The Persians during that time didn't saw themselves as Arabs and even the Arabs considered them as Ajam, non-Arabs. All of your arguments are invalid. 

It were Persian achievements, made by Persian scientist. And those Arabs doesn't gave the Persians a ground for such scientifically society. During the Sassanids (before islam) the Persians were long busy with making contribution to science and when the Arabs came they destroyed many libraries in Iran. The science during that time was only made by the Mu'tazila, the liberal-islamic school who were majorly influenced by the Greeks. Eventually the fundamentalistic muslims came on power and destroyed that liberal-islamic school and since then majorly 'Islamic' achievements in science aren't present. We all can see what the Arab Ibn Khaldun say about Arabs and there naturally habit to destroy everything.

It's quite pathetic that Arabs like you, due to your non-scientificaly history, want to claim contributions made by a other culture/race.

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## NeutralCitizen

Mongols they got everyone.


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## IbnAlwaled

Surenas said:


> The Indian you mention probably have a US passport, is a US citizen and consider himself a American. Non of this above is correlated with the Persians under the Islamic empire. The Persians during that time didn't saw themselves as Arabs and even the Arabs considered them as Ajam, non-Arabs. All of your arguments are invalid.
> 
> It were Persian achievements, made by Persian scientist. And those Arabs doesn't gave the Persians a ground for such scientifically society. During the Sassanids (before islam) the Persians were long busy with making contribution to science and when the Arabs came they destroyed many libraries in Iran. The science during that time was only made by the Mu'tazila, the liberal-islamic school who were majorly influenced by the Greeks. Eventually the fundamentalistic muslims came on power and destroyed that liberal-islamic school and since then majorly 'Islamic' achievements in science aren't present. We all can see what the Arab Ibn Khaldun say about Arabs and there naturally habit to destroy everything.
> 
> It's quite pathetic that Arabs like you, due to your non-scientificaly history, want to claim contributions made by a other culture/race.



Congratulations! 700 factual errors in one post.

First of all, Arabs never destroyed libraries.(source?)
second, Arabs used to call everyone living in Iran and the Stan-countries Persian, so most what you consider as Persian were actually not. In fact half of citizens of "Persia" today are not Persians.
third, when "Persians" use to publish scientific and literary books in Persian language it got no attention at all, that's why Most scientific publication written in Persian were translated to Arabic by the same authors. It was THE scientific language of its time.
fourth, Most"Persians" living in Persia who converted to Islam under the Abbasid Caliphate didn't consider the Arabs as foreign occupiers. Therefore, they were citizens of Abbasid. As the example I gave in previous post.
Finally, Most Persian scientific contribution in the middle ages were done during the Islamic golden age, which without Arabs and the Arab government it would have never happened.

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## kollang

persian empire..the first democracy...


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## IbnAlwaled

kollang said:


> persian empire..the first democracy...


Syria, the first democracy...

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## Audio

Birbal said:


> He had like a few dozen elephants which scared the hell out of the Romans. By the third Punic war all his elephants had already passed away.
> 
> Consider what would have happened if Hannibal had somehow managed to bring several thousand elephants with him.





> ...Romans came prepared with flammable weapons and anti-elephant devices: these were ox-led chariots, equipped with long spikes to wound the elephants, pots of fire to scare them, and accompanying screening troops who would hurl javelins at the elephants to drive them away...



from wiki...as im hard pressed to find better sources...they lost in the end this battle but learned how to combat elephants.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Surenas said:


> Atleast she gives argumentations for her theory, unlike you who only can attack her on her ethnicity and other non-argumentated nonsense. She is a professor of a well-respected university and she have reached more in her life than you ever will.



That's not a theory. A theory is backed by experimental evidence. How can you have an experiment for saying what's a hyperpower or not? She's a law professor, don't need to say more, lawyers aren't exactly known for telling the truth.

And lmao for saying I'm doing personal attacks, when you're doing the same. I'm at the University of California; if you go by that logic that being at a high ranked school means you're destined for greatness and is actually smart (as opposed to having money/connections/knowing how to crack the system) then I have "reached more in my life than you ever will."

Seriously, what are you, 15?

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## Audio

FairAndUnbiased said:


> That's not a theory. A theory is backed by experimental evidence. How can you have an experiment for saying what's a hyperpower or not?



Theory doesn't need experiments. At least not in this sense, maybe you are confusing it with scientific theories..
In history pretty much everything is theory with no experiments apart from the few remains we can find that give a glimpse into lives long ago.

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## Ajaxpaul

What about Alexander..Which empire did he lead?

23 years and a great warrior.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Audio said:


> Theory doesn't need experiments. At least not in this sense, maybe you are confusing it with scientific theories..
> In history pretty much everything is theory with no experiments apart from the few remains we can find that give a glimpse into lives long ago.



then lets call it for what it is: an idea. because that's what a "theory" without evidence is. god i hate lawyers and journalists.

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## Hack-Hook

S-19 said:


> Shia empires were a menace to Islamic influence. Shia empires of Nader shah and others attacked Moghul and Ottoman empire when all of them were Muslims. This greatly weakened Moghul and Ottoman empires which led to their downfall.



wasn't it ottoman Sunni Empire that started to attack shia Safavid dynasty at the time we were at war with Portuguese empire at Persian Gulf?

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## forummurat

BLACKEAGLE said:


> If this Empire was not the greatest in the history, I don't know what it is...
> 
> *Umayyad-Empire
> *




*Umayyad Empire was leader in the science and arts..
Ottoman Empire was leader in the state management and administration..*

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## 500

Ottoman-Turk said:


> lol uk 1714 to 1914 you must be crazy maybe navy but not overall france was in napoleon times so what world you in only navy uk could defeat france at that time napoleons army fought nearly all of europe


Thats was the idea of UK: make France to fight senseless wars with its neighbors, meanwhile they captured colonies around the world. Your great Napoleon sold Louisiana to Anglo Saxons, so he could keep his stupid wars. 

Thats why we talk now in English here and not in French.



forummurat said:


> *Umayyad Empire was leader in the science and arts..*


Ummayyad Empire had almost zero science. All Muslim science started with Abbasids (Persians).



BLACKEAGLE said:


> If this Empire was not the greatest in the history, I don't know what it is...
> 
> *Umayyad-Empire
> *


 
This of course:

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## Hack-Hook

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Oh! is that right?
> She must be a "hyperidiot" then. To identify Persia as a hyper-power, while Empires such as Omayyad and Abassied, that turned conquered nations and cultures religions, languages, way of life, and every single aspect of their lives upside down, as superpower.is just sooo funny...


funny wasn't it Persian who destroyed Ommayed and put Abbasid in the power and also weren't it Persians whom whenever they liked changed the Abbasid califs .
I wonder were they thought you in history that while all the Islamic governors at the time of Abbasid get their legitimacy from the Calif ,no new califs could sit in power unless his sit of power acknpwledged by Buyid dynasty
look what remain of abbasid territory at the time of Al-Booyeh by the way east of Ale-Booyeh territory was another Iranian Dynasty which were called Samanide and the north of their territory was Zeidis and before them Iran were ruled by Tahirid and Saffaride . you see after we overthrow the ommayed then Abbasid had no authorities over Iran , well except Mamoon which had a Persian mother and we ourselves put him on the sit of power against the wish of previous calif (Haroon Al-Rashid) and by the way we did it with an army less than half the Abbasid army . 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_dynasties_of_Iran

and about way of life before attacking Iran Arabs were tribal community that always were at war because of water wells and camels herd now I wonder after they conquered Iran who changed their way of life Arabs or Persians .

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## Black Widow

The SC said:


> 4000 years ago the Punjabi/Sindhis were not Muslims. *Islam is 1500 years old.*


 
I got bann once for the same statement...


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## Hack-Hook

IbnAlwaled said:


> If an American with an Indian ethnic background in LA made a substantial scientific advancement. Which country can add this to its scientific achievements?
> India or US?
> Of course its the US. Therefore they are all Arab achievements.


well let tell you something no achievement at the time of Ommayed and at the time of Abbasside and later Arab didn't governed Iran it was Persian Islamic dynasties as perhaps you didn't here anything about them then I suggest you read this links
Muslim dynasties of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

by the way if an Indian in the time of colonization have any achievement in Medical ,ART and Literature then it belongs to India not England so they were all Iranian achievement not Arabs . and stealing scientist hundfreds of years after their death don't change the fact everybody now who they are.

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## Developereo

Almost every thread turns into Arabs v/s Iranians. Getting ridiculous!

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## Hack-Hook

IbnAlwaled said:


> Congratulations! 700 factual errors in one post.
> 
> First of all, Arabs never destroyed libraries.(source?)
> second, Arabs used to call everyone living in Iran and the Stan-countries Persian, so most what you consider as Persian were actually not. In fact half of citizens of "Persia" today are not Persians.
> third, when "Persians" use to publish scientific and literary books in Persian language it got no attention at all, that's why Most scientific publication written in Persian were translated to Arabic by the same authors. It was THE scientific language of its time.
> fourth, Most"Persians" living in Persia who converted to Islam under the Abbasid Caliphate didn't consider the Arabs as foreign occupiers. Therefore, they were citizens of Abbasid. As the example I gave in previous post.
> Finally, Most Persian scientific contribution in the middle ages were done during the Islamic golden age, which without Arabs and the Arab government it would have never happened.


well I talked about Abbaside and Iranian , but let ask you one thing about Arab didn't burned books
who said this famous words


> "they will either contradict the Koran, in which case they are heresy, or they will agree with it, so they are superfluous."


and then ordered to burn all the books let me help you he was the second Califph


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## nalandapride

The SC said:


> ARAB CONTRIBUTIONS TO CIVILIZATION



That are the contributions of people who lived in Arab Empire but Arabs don't have contributions more than expanding empire and sea voyages. Most of the contributions are from Iranians. And regarding Mathematics and other things you are mentioning, all was copied from different civilizations, how it become Arab contributions.

*It always seems funny to we Indians that our Invention is known as Arabic Numerals.*

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## Hack-Hook

ajaxpaul said:


> What about Alexander..Which empire did he lead?
> 
> 23 years and a great warrior.


about Alexander its hard to call it an empire he was a Conqueror but he had no heir and his territory divided between his Generals and non of them were worthy of being called Empire .

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## Avisheik

The Avishek Empire. PDF members gets a planet each

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## Serpentine

I don't know what is Arabs obsession with the name Persia/Iran?They can't even tolerate hearing it.
But there is a good saying for that:
*You should respect jealous people, because they are truly the only ones who accept that you are better than them.*

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## Avisheik

Nobody mentioned Nepal??

That small guy was never conquered by an outsider.


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## Serpentine

I don't know what is Arabs obsession with the name Persia/Iran?They can't even tolerate hearing it.
But there is a good saying for that:
*You should respect jealous people, because they are truly the only ones who accept that you are better than them.*


BLACKEAGLE said:


> Persian "empire" is not even on the list!
> 
> Abbasid Caliphate: 11.1
> Rashidun Caliphate: 09.0
> Umayyad Caliphate: 10.5
> Achaemenid Empire: 08.75
> 
> 
> Afsharid Dynasty, Persia: 04.0


Oh poor boy,you don't even know that Achaemenid Empire is the same Persian empire.educate yourself.That's why i try not to argue with Arabs in historical topics.

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## scholseys

Avisheik said:


> Nobody mentioned Nepal??
> 
> That small guy was never conquered by an outsider.



nobody tried to conquer it due to it's harsh lands and its strategic location. If you ever visit nepal you will know why its a very harsh place to engage a battle in.


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## Avisheik

aazidane said:


> nobody tried to conquer it due to it's harsh lands and its strategic location. If you ever visit nepal you will know why its a very harsh place to engage a battle in.



Moghuls, british, afghans, etc. all tried to conquer it but they failed

Yup, but they were still unconquered by foreign invaders. That makes them awesome.

Anyway the winning side will always have some sort of advantage.


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## scholseys

I dont understand why such sectarianism between the arabs and the persians. It baffles, both of them are muslims at the end of the day. Why hate each other? someone please tell me other than an arabian or a persian.



Avisheik said:


> Moghuls, british, afghans, etc. all tried to conquer it but they failed
> 
> Yup, but they were still unconquered by foreign invaders. That makes them awesome.
> 
> Anyway the winning side will always have some sort of advantage.



They probably got conquered by buddhist monks. The same buddhist monks probably came to bangladesh and tought bangla, i used to date a nepali girl in high school, it was quite striking the similarity between bangla and nepali, i could understand a lot of things she used to say, same with her when i spoke bangla.


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## nalandapride

aazidane said:


> I dont understand why such sectarianism between the arabs and the persians. It baffles, both of them are muslims at the end of the day. Why hate each other? someone please tell me other than an arabian or a persian.



You must be knowing the concept of subset. The thing whole world know as an Islamic contributions, the next question arises who made significant contributions in Mathematics, art, architecture etc. in the Islamic World Arabs or Persians. Example. If you ask people if Ibn Sina was an Arab or a Persian, you will see an argument war among Arabs and Persians over his origin, Arabs claiming him as Arab and Iranian claiming him as Iranian.


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## Deno

Empire.... The only empire that could destroy Moons and Planets....

Their Stronget Weapon







Their Leaders

The Emperor






The Most Epic Man of All Times... DARTH VADER

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## scholseys

Technically Scotland has never been conquered by anyone through warfare. Mighty Roman emperor Hadrian tried, he ended up building a wall to keep the 'barbarians' off. Even sweden has a claim to it, they also have never been conquered by warfare.



nalandapride said:


> You must be knowing the concept of subset. The thing whole world know as an Islamic contributions, the next question arises who made significant contributions in Mathematics, art, architecture etc. in the Islamic World Arabs or Persians. Example. If you ask people if Ibn Sina was an Arab or a Persian, you will see an argument war among Arabs and Persians over his origin, Arabs claiming him as Arab and Iranian claiming him as Iranian.



pretty lame reason for hating each other. Most outsiders think persians are arabs until they go all PC.


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## nalandapride

aazidane said:


> They probably got conquered by buddhist monks. The same buddhist monks probably came to bangladesh and tought bangla, i used to date a nepali girl in high school, it was quite striking the similarity between bangla and nepali, i could understand a lot of things she used to say, same with her when i spoke bangla.


 
Its not Buddhist monk but common Origin from Sanskrit Language. I had studied Sanskrit at my school and I really co-relate many of the Bangla, Hindi words with that of Sanskrit with slight modification. I don't think Bangladesh teaches Sanskrit at School.


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## scholseys

nalandapride said:


> Its not Buddhist monk but common Origin from Sanskrit Language. I had studied Sanskrit at my school and I really co-relate many of the Bangla, Hindi words with that of Sanskrit with slight modification. I don't think Bangladesh teaches Sanskrit at School.



yes i knew that but I found nepali to be closer to bangla than hindi or urdu. Also i heard from someone that when the aryans came, buddhists monks fled to bengal from them.


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## Quasar

Deno said:


> Empire.... The only empire that could destroy Moons and Planets....
> 
> Their Stronget Weapon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their Leaders
> 
> The Emperor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Most Epic Man of All Times... DARTH VADER




2th the most evil emipre

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## nalandapride

aazidane said:


> yes i knew that but I found nepali to be closer to bangla than hindi or urdu. *Also i heard from someone that when the aryans came, buddhists monks fled to bengal from them*.



Your history seems weak. Aryans came in 1500BC, Buddhism founded in some 600BC in Magadha, first Ajatashatru(for his beloved Amrapaali of Vaishali), then Mauryas and Palas patronized Buddhism but Buddhism survived in Eastern India till 12th Century because of Pala patronized them. It was Bakhtiyar Khilji who gave final blow to Buddhism, he massacred so many monks, put Monastries on fire and destroyed Nalanda University, There were also 4 large monasteries in Bangladesh which was destroyed by him(I don't remember the name). Bihar got its name from word "Vihar or Vihara" means Buddhist Monastery.

The difference you see in Hindi is because of Persian loanwords otherwise we still use Sanskrit based vocabulary in our poetry and literature. Bengali uses more Sanskrit based words than Hindi because it was least affected by outsiders.

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## Deno

Quasar said:


> 2th the most evil emipre



Red Alert 3 OST - Hell March 3 - YouTube

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## forummurat

500 said:


> Ummayyad Empire had almost zero science. All Muslim science started with Abbasids (Persians).



What you are telling the story about? Ummayyad Empire had zero science?
Are you ok?  
Ummayyad Empire was the leader in science and art...!!!


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## Deno

forummurat said:


> What you are telling the story about? Ummayyad Empire had zero science?
> Are you ok?
> Ummayyad Empire was the leader in science and art...!!!



I guess it wasn't the Abbasid Caliphate that created the golden age of Islam.... Oh wait...

@500, Abbasids were Arab actually....

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## The SC

JEskandari said:


> funny wasn't it Persian who destroyed Ommayed and put Abbasid in the power and also weren't it Persians whom whenever they liked changed the Abbasid califs .
> I wonder were they thought you in history that while all the Islamic governors at the time of Abbasid get their legitimacy from the Calif ,no new califs could sit in power unless his sit of power acknpwledged by Buyid dynasty
> look what remain of abbasid territory at the time of Al-Booyeh by the way east of Ale-Booyeh territory was another Iranian Dynasty which were called Samanide and the north of their territory was Zeidis and before them Iran were ruled by Tahirid and Saffaride . you see after we overthrow the ommayed then Abbasid had no authorities over Iran , well except Mamoon which had a Persian mother and we ourselves put him on the sit of power against the wish of previous calif (Haroon Al-Rashid) and by the way we did it with an army less than half the Abbasid army .
> Muslim dynasties of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> and about way of life before attacking Iran Arabs were tribal community that always were at war because of water wells and camels herd now I wonder after they conquered Iran who changed their way of life Arabs or Persians .



I would like to shed some more light on the origin of the Arabs, some facts confirm that there was an Arab civilisation prior to islam here are the facts:

1. The Arabs Semitic(some say Aryan who adopted the Semitic language) ancestors in the Fertile Crescent and Egypt produced 5 brilliant ancient civilizations, which benefited the earliest Western civilizations of Greece and Rome. These 5 are: the Iraqi Sumerian and Babylonian civilizations; the Egyptian Pharaonic civilization; the Lebanese Phoenician civilization; and the Palestinian Canaanite civilization.

2. The 3 Semitic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam were all born in the Arab region.

3. The Post-Islamic Arab civilization contributed handsomely to the European Renaissance.

I

Arab Civilization before Islam

Contrary to some popular Western misconceptions propagated by many Western "experts" and "authorities" on the Arab world alleging that Arabs did not have any civilization before Islam, or that Arabs were nothing more than a collection of nomadic warring primitive tribes, confined solely to the Arabian Peninsula, who spent most of their existence looking for food and water, the historical record proves otherwise. In fact, centuries before the birth of Islam, the Arabs had several civilizations, not only in the Arabian Peninsula itself, but also in the Fertile Crescent, some of which were highly advanced with elaborate development and culture. Although Arab civilization before Islam might not have had a noticeable impact on Greece and Rome, it is nonetheless important to briefly mention here the following pre-Islamic Arab civilizations in order to dispel this wrong conventional Western notion that Arabs had no civilization before the birth of Islam, were nothing but wandering nomads, and were confined only to the Arabian Peninsula.

1

The Kingdom of Saba (or Sheba)

One of the earliest and most important of all pre-Islamic Arab civilizations is the Qahtani Kingdom of Saba or Sheba (10th century BCE  7th century CE), which had an elaborate civilization, legendary in its reputation of prosperity and wealth. The Kingdom of Saba was located in the southwestern mountainous rainy parts of the Arabian Peninsula in what is known today as the regions of Aseer and Yemen. Envious of its wealth, the Romans named it Arabia Felix (fortunate or prosperous Arabia).

The Sabaean capital, Ma'rib, was located near San'a, today's capital of Yemen, which was reportedly founded by Noah's eldest son Shem (or "Sam" in Arabic) from whose name the word "Sami" in Arabic or "Semitic" in English comes. In addition to their domains in the Arabian Penisula, the Sabaean kings controlled for a long time some parts of the East African coast across the Red Sea where they established the Kingdom of Abyssinia, which is Eritrea today. It should be indicated here that the name Abyssinia comes from the Arabic word Habashah. One of the most famous rulers of the Sabaeans was Queen Balgais. This mystic Arab Queen of Sheba was well known for her beauty, grace, wealth, charm, and splendor. She reportedly had a famous impassioned encounter with the Hebrew King Solomon when she took a special trip to Jerusalem

The Sabaean Kingdom produced and traded in spices, Arabian frankincense, myrrh, and other Arabian aromatics. The Sabaeans excelled in agriculture and had a remarkable irrigation system with terraced mountains, incredible huge water tunnels in mountains and great dams including the legendary Ma'rib Dam, which was built around 2000 BCE. This Arab dam was considered to be one of the greatest technological wonders of the ancient world. However, the tragic breaking of the Ma'rib Dam around 575, as indicated in the Qur'an, was an event of very traumatic proportions in the collective consciousness of all Arabs at the time and of later generations.

2

The Kingdom of Himyar

The Arab Kingdom of Himyar (115 BCE to 525 CE), which was also located in the southern part of the Arabian Peninsula, had a sizable number of Arab Christians and Arab Jews (not Hebrews). The most prominent Arab Jew of this kingdom was King Dhu al-Nuwas who persecuted his Arab Christian subjects. He reportedly incinerated some of them alive in retaliation for their persecution of Arab Jews in neighboring Arab Christian Najran.

From their capital city, first at Zafar and later at San'a, the powerful Himyarite kings executed military plans which resulted in the expansion of their domains at times eastward as far as the Persian Gulf and northward into the Arabian Desert. However, internal disorder and the changing of trade routes eventually caused the kingdom to suffer political and economic decline. In fact, after several unsuccessful attempts, the African Abyssinians finally invaded the Arab Himyarite Kingdom in 525. In 570, the year Prophet Mohammad was born, the Abyssinian governor Abraha sent an army of elephant-borne troops in an unsuccessful attempt to attack the city of Makkah (Mecca) and destroy its Ka'bah. In 575 the Persians invaded Himyar and ended the Abyssinian presence in Himyar. But the Persians did not last long there either. Soon thereafter Islam swept the entire Arabian Peninsula.

3

The Nabataean Kingdom

The Arab Nabataean Kingdom was established in the 6th century BCE. It was located south of the Dead Sea and along the eastern shores of the Gulf of Aqaba in the northern parts of the Hejaz. The Nabataeans had their capital city in Petra that was a flourishing center of commerce and civilization. The Nabataeans great achievements and culture are still echoed in the magnificent carved-in-the-mountains monuments they left behind. Thousands of tourists from all over the world are attracted every year to this Arab region to see these monuments not only at Petra in Jordan but also in Saudi Arabia's Mada'in Salih (i.e., Prophet Salih who warned the Thamud Arab Kingdom to worship Allah before the birth of Prophet Mohammad). The small Arab neighboring Kingdoms of Ad, Thamud, and Lihyan - all also with brilliant monuments and achievements mentioned in the Qu'ran - came under the Nabataean suzerainty for a while.

The Arab Nabataean Kingdom, which at its zenith ruled much of the Syrian interior including Damascus, later became a vassal Roman state and eventually fell victim to European colonialism when it was absorbed into the Roman Empire as the "Provincia Arabia" in 195 CE. In fact, the Roman Emperor Philip, who ruled from 244 to 249, was ethnically an Arab from this Arab Nabataean region. Incidentally, this Roman Emperor who was known as "Philip the Arab", was preceded to the Palatine Hill in Rome by a series of Arab empresses, half-Arab emperors, and the fully Arab Elagabulus of Emesa. It is also believed by some scholars that Philip the Arab was really the first Roman Christian emperor (244-249 CE) rather than Constantine I who ruled the Roman Empire (312-337 CE) 63 years after him.

4

The Kingdom of Tadmor (or Palmyra)

Another important Arab civilization before Islam was the famous Kingdom of Palmyra (or Tadmor in Arabic), which is now Hims in Syria. Although mentioned in some history books as early as the 9th century BCE, Tadmor became only prominent in the 3rd century BCE when it controlled the vital trade route between Mesopotamia and the Mediterranean. The Tadmorians had a great civilization and excelled in international trade. However, like the Nabataeans, they eventually came under the control of the expanding Roman imperialism by becoming another client Arab state of Rome.

In 265 the Tadmorian Arab King Udhayna (or Odenathus) was rewarded by the Romans to become a vice-emperor of the Roman Empire because of his assistance in their war against Persia. However, King Udhayna's widow Zainab (aka az-Zabba or Zenobia), the famous strong Arab queen wanted nothing less for Palmyra than a complete independence from Rome. She succeeded in temporarily driving the Roman invaders out of most of the Fertile Crescent and proclaimed her son Wahballat (or Athenodorus) to be the true emperor of a new independent Arab Palmyra. Queen Zainab's Arabian independent spirit, however, deeply angered the Romans and eventually resulted in the destruction of the Tadmorian Kingdom in 273 by a powerful force of the Roman imperial army. As part of the Roman victory celebration, queen Zainab was brutally taken to Rome in golden chains.

5

The Kingdom of Kindah

Kindat al-Muluk (or the Royal Kindah) was a famous Arab kingdom, which originated in the southern Arabian Peninsula near Yemen's Hadramawt region. Its capital city, al-Fau, was excavated northeast of Najran in Saudi Arabia in 1972 by Saudi archaeologists from King Saud University in Riyadh. The Kingdom of Kindah became prominent around the late 5th and early 6th centuries CE when it made one of the earliest and successful efforts to unite several Arab tribes under its new domain in Najd in central Arabia.

The traditional founder and ruler of Kindah was Hujr Akil al-Murar. However, the most renowned of all Kindah kings was al-Harith ibn Amr, Hujr's grandson, who extended his kingdom's domain north by invading Iraq and temporarily capturing al-Hirah, the capital city of the Arab Christian Kingdom of Lakhmid. But in 529 al-Hirah was liberated by its Christian Arabs who killed King al-Harith along with 50 members of his family. After al-Harith's death, the Kindah Kingdom split up into four factions - Asad, Taghlib, Kinanah, and Qays - each led by a prince. The famous pre-Islamic Arab poet Imru' al-Qays (who died around 540) was the prince of Qays. The continuing feuding between these Arab factions, however, eventually forced the Kindah princes by the middle of the 6th century to withdraw to their original place in southern Arabia next to Yemen. Nevertheless, after Islam was established throughout the Arabian Peninsula, many descendants of the Royal Kindah continued to hold powerful political positions within the Islamic state. In fact, one branch of the Royal Kindah was even successful in gaining great political influence in far away Arab Andalusia in the European Iberian Peninsula.

6

The Kingdom of Lakhmid

The Arab Christian Kingdom of Lakhmid, which originated in the 3rd century CE, reached the height of its power during the 6th century under King al-Munthir III (503-554). Its domain covered from the western shores of the Persian Gulf all the way north to Iraq where its capital city, al-Hira, was located on the Euphrates River near present day Kufah. Working in close cooperation with the Zoroastrian Persian Sasanian Empire to which the Lakhmid Kingdom was a vassal state, al-Munthir III raided and frequently challenged the pro-Byzantine Arab Kingdom of Ghassan in Syria. His son King Amr Ibn Hind was patron of the legendary Arab poet Tarfah Ibn al-Abd and other poets associated with the seven Mu'allaqat (the Suspended Odes") of pre-Islamic Arabia (see "The Jahiliyyah" below). The Lakhmid dynasty eventually disintegrated after the death of its great Arab Christian King an-Nu'man III in 602.

7

The Kingdom of Ghassan

As the Lakhmid Arab Kingdom was Christian so was its Arab neighbor to the west, the Kingdom of Ghassan, whose capital city was Damascus. This Syrian Ghassanid Kingdom was prominent in the 6th century and was an ally of the Byzantine Empire. It protected the vital spice trade route from the south of the Arabian Peninsula and also acted as a buffer against the desert bedouins.

The Ghassanid King al-Harith Ibn Jabalah (reigned 529-569), who was a Monophysite Christian, supported the Christian Byzantine Empire against the Zoroastrian Sasanian Persian Empire and successfully opposed the Arab Kingdom of Lakhmids, which sided with Persians. As a result, King al-Harith was given the title of Patricius by the Byzantine emperor Justinian.

Like the Lakhmids, the Ghassanids patronized the arts and many literary geniuses such as al-Nabighah al-Thubyani and Hassan Ibn Thabit. Great Arab poets like them were frequently entertained in the royal courts of the Ghassanid kings. After the emergence of Islam in the 7th century, most inhabitants of the Kingdom of Ghassan became Muslim. One of the most prominent poets of the Kingdom of Ghassan was Hassan Ibn Thabit. Ibn Thabit, who espoused Islam, wrote several famous and beautiful poems in praise of Prophet Mohammad.

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## Avisheik

Quasar said:


> *2th the most awesome emipre*



There, corrected for you  . The soviet empire was the most badass empire ever

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## forummurat

And yes..
Abbasids when converted to Persians..!


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## Avisheik

aazidane said:


> I dont understand why such sectarianism between the arabs and the persians. It baffles, both of them are muslims at the end of the day. Why hate each other? someone please tell me other than an arabian or a persian.
> 
> 
> 
> They probably got conquered by buddhist monks. The same buddhist monks probably came to bangladesh and tought bangla, i used to date a nepali girl in high school, it was quite striking the similarity between bangla and nepali, i could understand a lot of things she used to say, same with her when i spoke bangla.



Buddhism came from bihar, which is quite close to bengal, with no geographical obstruction.

Well, west bengal borders nepal, bound to have some similarity



aazidane said:


> Technically Scotland has never been conquered by anyone through warfare. Mighty Roman emperor Hadrian tried, he ended up building a wall to keep the 'barbarians' off. Even sweden has a claim to it, they also have never been conquered by warfare.
> 
> 
> 
> pretty lame reason for hating each other. Most outsiders think persians are arabs until they go all PC.



Hmm Japan wasnt conquered until WW2, they deserve a mention with scotland and nepal

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## K-Xeroid

500 said:


> .
> 
> Ummayyad Empire had almost zero science. All Muslim science started with *Abbasids (Persians).*


Are you Serious about that Bold Part, Abbasids are not Persians, They are the Branch of Quraish (Arabians).. :Wat:
I know about them Cuz I'm ..,Ummm ... Leave it.. 


> *The Abbasid caliphate was founded by the descendants of the Prophet Mohammad (S.A.W)'s youngest uncle, &#8216;Abbas ibn &#8216;Abd al-Muttalib,*


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate

Wat a shame it is, Iranians are claiming Abbasid as their originated tribe... :Bad:

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## yahya07

I've always wondered why Jews have never founded a strong empire/civilization with even with their 5000 year history? History shows they just run between Christian and Islamic empires, whichever one has the upper hand. A

btw I do not consider the Khazars a Jewish civilisation since they were already well established before the ruling elite decided to convert.


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## The SC

JEskandari said:


> well the problem is many of those people in above article (let say a very large many) are Iranian that are stolen by some people and called Arab



NOTHING PERSONAL, BUT WHO DID SPREAD ISLAM!
Persians contributed a whole lot, but to say what you are saying is going beyond logic and historical facts.
Some like ibn sina were mixed Arab-Persian, but the fact is in Islam there were no differences between Arabi, Ajami or persian,only in the amount of faith, and every Muslim was considered as a full citizen of the Ummah and he could live anywhere he choose to within its frontiers and had equal rights to education, commerce or whatever endeavour he choose to pursue, hence many Persians and others were able to contribute in all fields of life.

See post #130 for a better understanding.

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## Avisheik

yahya07 said:


> I've always wondered why Jews have never founded a strong empire/civilization with even with their 5000 year history? History shows they just run between Christian and Islamic empires, whichever one has the upper hand. A
> 
> btw I do not consider the Khazars a Jewish civilisation since they were already well established before the ruling elite decided to convert.



Too much trouble in their area to even start an empire. Furthermore, their population is less than that of christians and muslims

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## yahya07

Avisheik said:


> Too much trouble in their area to even start an empire. Furthermore, their population is less than that of christians and muslims



Judaism is alot older than both Christianity and Islam, think in terms that they had a long head start. Call me anti-Semitic but I think Jewish culture is about conspiring with other Jews to exploit the Gentile under his nose?


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## Avisheik

yahya07 said:


> Judaism is alot older than both Christianity and Islam, think in terms that they had a long head start. Call me anti-Semitic but I think Jewish culture is about conspiring with other Jews to exploit the Gentile under his nose?



They had to deal with
Romans, egyptians, persians, arabs, greeks, alexender, before the two religion came about.

Nah, they are just very smart people. We are all wary of smart people

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## scholseys

nalandapride said:


> Your history seems weak. Aryans came in 1500BC, Buddhism founded in some 600BC in Magadha, first Ajatashatru(for his beloved Amrapaali of Vaishali), then Mauryas and Palas patronized Buddhism but Buddhism survived in Eastern India till 12th Century because of Pala patronized them. It was Bakhtiyar Khilji who gave final blow to Buddhism, he massacred so many monks, put Monastries on fire and destroyed Nalanda University, There were also 4 large monasteries in Bangladesh which was destroyed by him(I don't remember the name). Bihar got its name from word "Vihar or Vihara" means Buddhist Monastery.
> 
> The difference you see in Hindi is because of Persian loanwords otherwise we still use Sanskrit based vocabulary in our poetry and literature. Bengali uses more Sanskrit based words than Hindi because it was least affected by outsiders.



I know what you are saying. But all i am saying is that nepali sounds very similary to bangla, more so than hindi and urdu. There must be a reason behind it.
bro, do you have any books you can suggest about the history of the subcontinent?



Avisheik said:


> They had to deal with
> Romans, egyptians, persians, arabs, greeks, alexender, before the two religion came about.
> 
> Nah, they are just very smart people. We are all wary of smart people



everywhere the jews went they conspired, and tried to have strong inluence with the big daddy. Hadrian destroyed Judea due to that and Hadrian's rule during the Roman empire was the most people. I wonder why jews never had an empire, such a long history but no empire. They have had great scientists and scholars, but not a single empire.


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## 500

forummurat said:


> What you are telling the story about? Ummayyad Empire had zero science?
> Are you ok?
> Ummayyad Empire was the leader in science and art...!!!


Here list of Muslim scientists:

List of Muslim scientists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All are after 750 AD.



Deno said:


> I guess it wasn't the Abbasid Caliphate that created the golden age of Islam.... Oh wait...
> 
> @500, Abbasids were Arab actually....


Abbasids were Arabs but with very strong Persian influence. Almost all their viziers were Persians and they often had more power than califs themselves.

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## Avisheik

aazidane said:


> I know what you are saying. But all i am saying is that nepali sounds very similary to bangla, more so than hindi and urdu. There must be a reason behind it.
> bro, do you have any books you can suggest about the history of the subcontinent?
> 
> 
> 
> everywhere the jews went they conspired, and tried to have strong inluence with the big daddy. Hadrian destroyed Judea due to that and Hadrian's rule during the Roman empire was the most people. I wonder why jews never had an empire, such a long history but no empire. They have had great scientists and scholars, but not a single empire.



Nepali and bangla sounds similar, cause we are geographically far away from iran, thus less persian influence unlike hindi or urdu.

Aww come on, thats just demonizing the jews. Anyway, i posted already that, too much violence in that area to even start an empire

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## nalandapride

aazidane said:


> I know what you are saying. But all i am saying is that nepali sounds very similary to bangla, more so than hindi and urdu. There must be a reason behind it.
> bro, do you have any books you can suggest about the history of the subcontinent?



I read history from different sources, I can't name any specific one. And Nepalese are immediate neighbor of Bengalis in the North may be the reason for that.


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## ARSENAL6

500 said:


> Ummayyad Empire had almost zero science. All Muslim science started with Abbasids (Persians).



and



500 said:


> Here list of Muslim scientists:
> 
> List of Muslim scientists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> All are after 750 AD.
> 
> 
> Abbasids were Arabs but with very strong Persian influence. Almost all their viziers were Persians and they often had more power than califs themselves.


 

Spare me of the retarded conspiracy of Zionist hatred against Muslims, Allah(swt), Prophet Mohammid(Pbuh), Noble Quran and Islam

Wiki is not a reliable sources about Science and Islam, Especially when you have people who are paid to go and make lies against Islam 

http://arabcrunch.com/2011/09/under...-propaganda-did-it-favor-jewish-startups.html

Get yourself educated:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3342750741448358648#docid=7208621665844585292

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX3UHNhQ1Zk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejoIgFsmqxA&feature=related


We understand your hatred against Islam No need to turn facts Upside down

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## 500

ARSENAL6 said:


> PLease post reliable sources and not from Wiki.


Please post list of Muslim scientists pre 750 AD. From any source u wish.

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## Surenas

FairAndUnbiased said:


> then lets call it for what it is: an idea. because that's what a "theory" without evidence is. god i hate lawyers and journalists.



A theory need experiments? Haha, and you are studying at the university of California? Audio is right. A theory doesn't need experiments. You just demonstrated your lack of knowledge. How pathetic is that. I'm studying at the University of Amsterdam. A respected university.

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## Hack-Hook

Android K-Zero said:


> Are you Serious about that Bold Part, Abbasids are not Persians, They are the Branch of Quraish (Arabians).. :Wat:
> I know about them Cuz I'm ..,Ummm ... Leave it..
> Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Wat a shame it is, Iranians are claiming Abbasid as their originated tribe... :Bad:



I don't recall i ever said Abbasid had Persian route ,but I recall I said we put them on the power and we changed their kings 
at our will and also I recall I said at the time we had our dynasties and they didn't rule over Iran .
about Islamic Golden Age yes it was not at the time of Ommayed but at the time of Abbassid and Ilkhans
and after that all was decline except a small spark at the beginning of Safavid Dynasty and the same time in
Ottman empire .

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## Birbal

Audio said:


> from wiki...as im hard pressed to find better sources...they lost in the end this battle but learned how to combat elephants.



Again, Hannibal had at most 80 elephants in that battle. The Romans successfully used anti-elephant tactics against them. But you can't use anti-elephant tactics against several thousand elephants.


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## ARSENAL6

500 said:


> Please post list of Muslim scientists pre 750 AD. From any source u wish.


 
No no go and provide links other than Wiki I think I said that first . STop spreading LIes .


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## Surenas

The SC said:


> NOTHING PERSONAL, BUT WHO DID SPREAD ISLAM!



What have the spread of Islam have to do with science? You spread Islam from the Arabian peninsula, but you must remember that the Persians spread their form of Islam to many eastern countries and the Turkic people.



> Persians contributed a whole lot, but to say what you are saying is going beyond logic and historical facts.



No, I can give you a strong statement: Persians contributed the most to science and scholarship. Every historian is agreeing with me, while you and your Arab brothers on this site are giving weak arguments to claim that the Persians who contributed to Islamic science have to thank the Arabs for that or that those Persian in facts were Arabs. Thats beyond madness. No respected historian in the world will supporting this kind of nonsense claims and even Arab historians, like Ibn Khaldun, gave most credit to the Persians. Should I quote him again?



> ''Thus the founders of grammar were Sibawaih and after him, al-Farisi and Az-Zajjaj. All of them were of Persian descent&#8230;they invented rules of (Arabic) grammar&#8230;great jurists were Persians&#8230; *only the Persians engaged in the task of preserving knowledge and writing systematic scholarly works.* Thus the truth of the statement of the prophet becomes apparent, 'If learning were suspended in the highest parts of heaven the Persians would attain it"&#8230;The intellectual sciences were also the preserve of the Persians, left alone by the Arabs, who did not cultivate them&#8230;as was the case with all crafts&#8230;This situation continued in the cities as long as the Persians and Persian countries, Iraq, Khorasan and Transoxiana (modern Central Asia), retained their sedentary culture.''





> ''*The Arabs dominate only of the plains, because they are, by their savage nature, people of pillage and corruption.* They pillage everything that they can take without fighting or taking risks, then flee to their refuge in the wilderness, and do not stand and do battle unless in self-defense. So when they encounter any difficulty or obstacle, they leave it alone and look for easier prey. And tribes well-fortified against them on the slopes of the hills escape their corruption and destruction, because they prefer not to climb hills, nor expend effort, nor take risks.''





> Some like ibn sina were mixed Arab-Persian, but the fact is in Islam there were no differences between Arabi, Ajami or persian,only in the amount of faith, and every Muslim was considered as a full citizen of the Ummah and he could live anywhere he choose to within its frontiers and had equal rights to education, commerce or whatever endeavour he choose to pursue, hence many Persians and others were able to contribute in all fields of life.



No, Avicenna wasn't mixed Arab. That kind of claims are laughable and not supported by any historian in the world. Maybe in Islam their were no difference between Ajams and Arab, not entirely true if you looke at the time of Omar and his anti-Persian rules, but the Persians clearly saw them different than the Arabs who conquered them. They never named themselves Arabs. 

Here, just translated this to English:



> *The first scientists in the Islamic world were mostly Persians, Christians, Jews, and even Berbers* who first translated Greek works into Farsi for the and record and then to the mandatory language of the elite, Arabic. *One can not really speak of Arabic nor Islamic sciences* but of the Sciences in the countries of Islam. That is also the original title of the book of A.Youschkevitch, one of the leading specialists in that field. Also the term "Islamic scholars" is a generalization not justified for those scientists and above were still mostly recent converts who where not so practical with their new religion.





> The most important contribution indeed found in Baghdad but rather must be seen clearly in the light of the government of Al-Mamun, the seventh caliph. This enlightened ruler accepted the doctrine of Moetazilieten thereby founded the house of Wisdom (Bayt Al Hikma) in which *scientists from all origins to the Greek, Persian, Indian and Chinese work* on an industrial scale translated. The moetazilieten, now by the new Muslim philosophers as relievers in Islam considered, among other things, had decided that the top reason is the belief that the Koran was created or uncreated but Allah and that the free will of man would allow. These three elements were later denounced by the fundamentalists as respect and so it remained until today.





> The failure of this scientific activity in the Islamic world is often unfair to the invasion of the crusaders and the Mongols assigned, *but it is mainly due to the fact that already ensure the vast majority of the population was forcibly converted to Islam so that the scientific research stagnated.* The converts risked to devote themselves less to statements that contradict could be with their new religion. In the Quran its written that the sun every evening descends into a pool, which no scholar would ever dare to claim that the earth around the sun draait. In 1975 was an Imam in Saudi Arabia by a fatwa that the earth was flat and contradiction had to be punished with death. In the field of astronomy, the study indeed focused primarily towards the holy city of Mecca easy to find the correct daily prayers can be conducted. The refinements to the model of Ptolemy have not allowed them heliocentrism (the earth revolves around the sun) to re-discover, because he was already known by the Hindus in the 8th century BC. and by the Greek Aristarchus of Samos in the 3rd eeeuw BC. And there is as yet no scientific evidence that Copernicus was aware of or influenced by the techniques of Al-Tusi, on the contrary (Toby E. Hoff, 2003). That heliocentrism was not discovered in the Islamic world is also called to "thank" the fact that the Koran is there a greater restriction to freedom of thought went beyond the West. Even Galileo Galilei said, after he had to abjure the heliocentric theory by pressure from the church, "and yet she plays." They will never to the Dutch fysikus Lorentz developing the theory of relativity Einstein assign, for he had the impact of its formulas on this new theory at least, self-discovery.





> *''Persian-speaking Iranians made great contributions in the formation of Islamic intellectual history. A great portion (and most of the best) of medieval Muslim philosophers, physicians, ethicists, scientists, Islamic jurists, historians, and geographers were Persian-speaking Iranians. [....] A great many medieval islamic contributions to economic analysis, I will argue, were made by Persian-speaking Iranians writers: philosophers, ethicist, scientists, theologians and the writers of ''mirror of princes.''*



I can't take you serious: you posted yesterday a article about Arab science with almost only Persian names. You just go back to school. 

The only conclusion we can give is that the Persians contributed the most to Islamic science, that science in Islam only was stimulated by a liberal-islamic school of Islam, fundamentalist later destroyed this school, and that the degeneration of science in Iran and other countries in Islam were just because of Islam. Fundamentalist Arabs threaded often the scientist who you now see as Arab, while their clearly were non-Arab liberal Persians.

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## Birbal

aazidane said:


> yes i knew that but I found nepali to be closer to bangla than hindi or urdu. Also i heard from someone that when the aryans came, buddhists monks fled to bengal from them.



The Aryans were around long before Buddhism was invented...


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## kollang

ARSENAL6 said:


> and
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spare me of the retarded conspiracy of Zionist hatred against Muslims, Allah(swt), Prophet Mohammid(Pbuh), Noble Quran and Islam
> 
> Wiki is not a reliable sources about Science and Islam, Especially when you have people who are paid to go and make lies against Islam
> 
> Arrington&#8217;s TechCrunch was Biased, Anti Islam & Spreading Zionist Propaganda, Did It Favor Jewish Startups? - ArabCrunch
> 
> Get yourself educated:
> 
> islam and science-part1
> 
> Islam: Empire of Faith. Part 1: Prophet Muhammad and rise of Islam (full; PBS Documentary) - YouTube
> 
> Ahmad Deedat Speaks On Zionist Jews Inviting Thier Own Death - YouTube
> 
> 
> We understand your hatred against Islam No need to turn facts Upside down


in this case wiki is so valid.why?just look at his references.

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## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> NOTHING PERSONAL, BUT WHO DID SPREAD ISLAM!
> Persians contributed a whole lot, but to say what you are saying is going beyond logic and historical facts.
> Some like ibn sina were mixed Arab-Persian, but the fact is in Islam there were no differences between Arabi, Ajami or persian,only in the amount of faith, and every Muslim was considered as a full citizen of the Ummah and he could live anywhere he choose to within its frontiers and had equal rights to education, commerce or whatever endeavour he choose to pursue, hence many Persians and others were able to contribute in all fields of life.
> 
> See post #130 for a better understanding.


nothing of Ibn Sina is Arab 


> Avicenna was born c. 980 near Bukhara (in present-day Uzbekistan), the capital of the Samanids, a Persian dynasty in Central Asia and Greater Khorasan.


and he died in Hamadan nothing Arab there he wrote more than 450 book and because one of them is in Arabic you say he is partly Arab ?
well according to Islam there is no difference but on what ? according to Islam there is no different between people when it come to God and Judgement and only their Piety distinguish them . 
well if so why in that article instead of Islam there was Arab and then all the scientist of Iran and Spain and Italy were called Arabs ?

In your post you mentioned the world Ajam and Arab tell me when and where the distinction between those two words started ,or better
why Arab started to call Iranian Ajam , was it holly prophet Pbuh the one who started that ?
you say every Muslim were considered equal then tell me the reason for the downfall of Barmak Family ? wasn't it because of that Haroon Al-rashid didn't considered his sun worthy of his wife which was Arab and he only agreed to the marriage for political reasons ,honestly can you tell me one instance in Ommayed Dynasty when Ajams were considered equal with Arabs .

and again I say n the golden age of Islamic civilization Iran were not under the control of Abbasid or Ommayrd we had our own dynasties which were Tahirid , Saffaride , samanide , Al ziar , Al Booye and Deylamian .that's why technology and science flourished in Iran and that's why in the Ommayed time when we were under the tyranny of Ommayed there was no movement in science ,,art and technology .

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## Birbal

ARSENAL6 said:


> No no go and provide links other than Wiki I think I said that first . STop spreading LIes .



This Arab-Iran rivalry is so divisive. Now even Israelis are fighting with each other.

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## killerx

long live islam

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## Mahmoud_EGY

NeutralCitizen said:


> Mongols they got everyone.


not us the egyptian army stoped them

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## nalandapride

NeutralCitizen said:


> Mongols they got everyone.



It is said that Indian Summer stopped Mongols from destroying India.


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## manofwar

self delete


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## Birbal

nalandapride said:


> It is said that Indian Summer stopped Mongols from destroying India.



Oh the irony. The Russian winter didn't stop the Mongols but the Indian summer did.


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## Deno

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> not us the egyptian army stoped them



Sorry but not Egyptian  Mamluks were not Egyptian 



Birbal said:


> Oh the irony. The Russian winter didn't stop the Mongols but the Indian summer did.



Mongols are used to snow, cold and even death hot deserts but they are not used to jungles... Maybe what he said about Indian summer is about extreme jungles of India?

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## MilSpec

Birbal said:


> The Indian armies of the Mauryan and Gupta empires were also quite disciplined. And the Romans did held little if any technological advantage over them.
> 
> *I'd love to see the ancient Roman army deal with several thousand elephants.
> *
> It's a little harder to compare the Chinese to the Romans. Technologically, China was nearly always superior to anyone else, but to what extent it was able to put its technology to good practical use is an open question.
> 
> 
> 
> Well it depends on the Muslim conquerors. There were those who decided to establish empires in the subcontinent and elsewhere and there were those who just wanted to loot.
> 
> Interestingly, many of the early English colonists also intended merely to establish their own administrations in India. It wasn't until the 1800s that they started looting India.




Tathastu


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## The SC

500 said:


> Please post list of Muslim scientists pre 750 AD. From any source u wish.



Please post any name of a Jewish scientist pre or after 750 AD Without belonging to a nationality different than Jewish.

Persians were great and intelligent people that is why they have accepted Islam and the Arab muslims integrated them in their high societies.

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## The SC

JEskandari said:


> nothing of Ibn Sina is Arab
> 
> and he died in Hamadan nothing Arab there he wrote more than 450 book and because one of them is in Arabic you say he is partly Arab ?
> well according to Islam there is no difference but on what ? according to Islam there is no different between people when it come to God and Judgement and only their Piety distinguish them .
> well if so why in that article instead of Islam there was Arab and then all the scientist of Iran and Spain and Italy were called Arabs ?
> 
> In your post you mentioned the world Ajam and Arab tell me when and where the distinction between those two words started ,or better
> why Arab started to call Iranian Ajam , was it holly prophet Pbuh the one who started that ?
> you say every Muslim were considered equal then tell me the reason for the downfall of Barmak Family ? wasn't it because of that Haroon Al-rashid didn't considered his sun worthy of his wife which was Arab and he only agreed to the marriage for political reasons ,honestly can you tell me one instance in Ommayed Dynasty when Ajams were considered equal with Arabs .
> 
> and again I say n the golden age of Islamic civilization Iran were not under the control of Abbasid or Ommayrd we had our own dynasties which were Tahirid , Saffaride , samanide , Al ziar , Al Booye and Deylamian .that's why technology and science flourished in Iran and that's why in the Ommayed time when we were under the tyranny of Ommayed there was no movement in science ,,art and technology .



No, it is because I have never heard a Persian name like "Abu Ali al-Hussain Ibn Abdallah Ibn Sina "

Avicenna wrote 99 books, almost all in Arabic, the language of religious and scientific expression in the entire Muslim world at that time

Philosophers : Ibn Sina (Avicenna)

Avicenna wrote 99 books, almost all in Arabic, the language of religious and scientific expression in the entire Muslim world at that time


The arabs called the Iranian people the Fors :
According to The Political Language of Islam, during the Islamic period, Ajam was originally used as a reference to denote those whom Arabs in the Arabian peninsula viewed as "alien" or outsiders.[4] The early application of the term included all of the peoples with whom the Arabs had contact including Persians, Byzantine Greeks, Ethiopians, and the somewhat related Nabataeans. Over time the term because specialized and referred to Persians almost exclusively as an ethnic term, but varied in its usage from place to place as the early Muslim conquests led to a much wider of Arabic-speakers. However, the original meaning still exists, and in much of the non-Arabic speaking Muslim world the term does not have a pejorative meaning as the word is understood to mean anyone who does not speak Arabic. In recent literature the usage of the term is not used to any ethnic group, but instead may have evolved from the original Arabic usage for outsiders in general. Ajam is pre Islamic Arabic word.


According to Clifford Edmund Bosworth, "by the 3rd/9th century, the non-Arabs, and above all the Persians, were asserting their social and cultural equality (tasw&#299;a) with the Arabs, if not their superiority (taf&#380;&#299;l) over them (a process seen in the literary movement of the &#352;o&#703;&#363;b&#299;ya). In any case, there was always in some minds a current of admiration for the &#703;A&#496;am as heirs of an ancient, cultured tradition of life. Even the great proponent of the Arab cause, J&#257;&#7717;e&#7827;, wrote a Ket&#257;b al-tasw&#299;a bayn al-&#703;Arab wa&#8217;l-&#703;A&#496;am. After these controversies had died down, and the Persians had achieved a position of power in the Islamic world comparable to their numbers and capabilities, "&#703;Ajam" became a simple ethnic and geographical designation.".[6] Thus by the 9th century, the term was being used by Persians themselves as an ethnic term, and examples can be given by Asadi Tusi in his poem comparing the superiority of Persians and Arabs.[7] Accordingly: "territorial notions of &#8220;Iran,&#8221; are reflected in such terms as ir&#257;n&#353;ahr, ir&#257;nzamin, or Fors, the arabicized form of P&#257;rs/F&#257;rs (Persia). The ethnic notion of &#8220;Iranian&#8221; is denoted by the Persian words P&#257;rsi or Ir&#257;ni, and the Arabic term ahl al-fors (inhabitants of Persia) or &#703;Ajam, referring to non-Arabs, but primarily to Persians as in molk-e &#703;Ajam (Persian kingdom) or moluk-e &#703;Ajam (Persian kings).".[8]

In the Persian Gulf region today, people usually refer to Persian as Ajami as they refer to Persian carpet (Ajami carpet or sajjad al Ajami), Persian cat (Ajami cat), and Persian emperors (Ajami kings)..[9] The Persian community in Bahrain calls itself Ajami.

It is so pleasant to read , since I am an Arab from Tahirid dynasty to idrissid and aghlabid Dynasties all related to Our prophet PBUH.

Nice writing to you.


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## manofwar

This thread is officially  
people have made the original topic into a persians vs arabs thread....


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## The SC

The SC said:


> No ,it is because I have never heard a Persian name like "Abu Ali al-Hussain Ibn Abdallah Ibn Sina "
> 
> Avicenna wrote 99 books, almost all in Arabic, the language of religious and scientific expression in the entire Muslim world at that time
> 
> Philosophers : Ibn Sina (Avicenna)



The arabs called the Iranian people the Fors :
According to The Political Language of Islam, during the Islamic period, Ajam was originally used as a reference to denote those whom Arabs in the Arabian peninsula viewed as "alien" or outsiders.[4] The early application of the term included all of the peoples with whom the Arabs had contact including Persians, Byzantine Greeks, Ethiopians, and the somewhat related Nabataeans. Over time the term because specialized and referred to Persians almost exclusively as an ethnic term, but varied in its usage from place to place as the early Muslim conquests led to a much wider of Arabic-speakers. However, the original meaning still exists, and in much of the non-Arabic speaking Muslim world the term does not have a pejorative meaning as the word is understood to mean anyone who does not speak Arabic. In recent literature the usage of the term is not used to any ethnic group, but instead may have evolved from the original Arabic usage for outsiders in general.

According to Clifford Edmund Bosworth, "by the 3rd/9th century, the non-Arabs, and above all the Persians, were asserting their social and cultural equality (tasw&#299;a) with the Arabs, if not their superiority (taf&#380;&#299;l) over them (a process seen in the literary movement of the &#352;o&#703;&#363;b&#299;ya). In any case, there was always in some minds a current of admiration for the &#703;A&#496;am as heirs of an ancient, cultured tradition of life. Even the great proponent of the Arab cause, J&#257;&#7717;e&#7827;, wrote a Ket&#257;b al-tasw&#299;a bayn al-&#703;Arab wa&#8217;l-&#703;A&#496;am. After these controversies had died down, and the Persians had achieved a position of power in the Islamic world comparable to their numbers and capabilities, "&#703;Ajam" became a simple ethnic and geographical designation.".[6] Thus by the 9th century, the term was being used by Persians themselves as an ethnic term, and examples can be given by Asadi Tusi in his poem comparing the superiority of Persians and Arabs.[7] Accordingly: "territorial notions of &#8220;Iran,&#8221; are reflected in such terms as ir&#257;n&#353;ahr, ir&#257;nzamin, or Fors, the arabicized form of P&#257;rs/F&#257;rs (Persia). The ethnic notion of &#8220;Iranian&#8221; is denoted by the Persian words P&#257;rsi or Ir&#257;ni, and the Arabic term ahl al-fors (inhabitants of Persia) or &#703;Ajam, referring to non-Arabs, but primarily to Persians as in molk-e &#703;Ajam (Persian kingdom) or moluk-e &#703;Ajam (Persian kings).".[8]

In the Persian Gulf region today, people usually refer to Persian as Ajami as they refer to Persian carpet (Ajami carpet or sajjad al Ajami), Persian cat (Ajami cat), and Persian emperors (Ajami kings)..[9] The Persian community in Bahrain calls itself Ajami.

It is so pleasant to read , since I am an Arab from Tahirid dynasty to idrissid and aghlabid Dynasties all related to Our prophet PBUH.

Nice writing to you.


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## BLACKEAGLE

500 said:


> Thats was the idea of UK: make France to fight senseless wars with its neighbors, meanwhile they captured colonies around the world. Your great Napoleon sold Louisiana to Anglo Saxons, so he could keep his stupid wars.
> 
> 
> 
> Ummayyad Empire had almost zero science. All Muslim science started with Abbasids (Persians).
> 
> Read and enjoy Arab greatness:
> 
> History of Science and Technology in Islam


----------



## Mosamania

BLACKEAGLE said:


> 500 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats was the idea of UK: make France to fight senseless wars with its neighbors, meanwhile they captured colonies around the world. Your great Napoleon sold Louisiana to Anglo Saxons, so he could keep his stupid wars.
> 
> 
> 
> Ummayyad Empire had almost zero science. All Muslim science started with Abbasids (Persians).
> 
> Read and enjoy Arab greatness:
> 
> History of Science and Technology in Islam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw your Persian new year post where you offered a truce and peace and all I can say to you is "Been there done that" As you can see to these people "Race" is extremely important and for some reason they think that the Persian gene is superior than all others let them think what they wish brother.
Click to expand...

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## BLACKEAGLE

Mosamania said:


> BLACKEAGLE said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw your Persian new year post where you offered a truce and peace and all I can say to you is "Been there done that" As you can see to these people "Race" is extremely important and for some reason they think that the Persian gene is superior than all others let them think what they wish brother.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am ashamed to say this, and I was really hesitant to mention it but I will this time.
> Iranians greatest leaders are Arab prophet Mohammed PBUH, Ali S, Hassan, Hussien....etc. And all of them are Arabs. So I don't understand their obsession to show Arabs as the inferior ethnicity. I remember reading Arab-Persian wars article and it mentioned their superior complex over other ethnicities. But hey, our leaders- Omar R, Kalid and others brook this superiority complex in the hardest way could someone imagine. God bless Omar Bin Alkhattab.
Click to expand...


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## nalandapride

Deno said:


> Mongols are used to snow, cold and even death hot deserts but they are not used to jungles... Maybe what he said about Indian summer is about extreme jungles of India?



Its not Jungle but the summer. In deserts temperature goes colder in Nights but our summer is not like that particularly North-west of the subcontinent is hottest area. During days, we have hot winds known as "Loo waves" which can make anyone sick and during nights not even a slight breeze and always high humidity. And when Monsoon comes it rains continuously for many hours. When Alexander came to sub-continent, his troops were annoyed by continuous Monsoon rains.

http://www.mongolianculture.com/MONGOL-ARMIES.htm


----------



## Surenas

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Mosamania said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am ashamed to say this, and I was really hesitant to mention it but I will this time.
> Iranians greatest leaders are Arab prophet Mohammed PBUH, Ali S, Hassan, Hussien....etc. And all of them are Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That depend on which Iranians you speak. The Arabs you mention are nothing to me. To me the greatest Iranian leaders are Cyrus the great, Dariush the Great, Shapur, Surena, etc. And maybe Iran is islamized, but the Persian culture is stronger than ever in Iran. The biggest festivity in Iran (Norooz) is of Persian/Zoroastrianism origin. People give their children more often a Persian name and the Shahname is for the Iranians like what the Quran is for muslims. No Iranian calls himself a Arab and they know their culture/history is far superior to the barbaric history of the Arabs.
Click to expand...


----------



## kollang

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Mosamania said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am ashamed to say this, and I was really hesitant to mention it but I will this time.
> Iranians greatest leaders are Arab prophet Mohammed PBUH, Ali S, Hassan, Hussien....etc. And all of them are Arabs. So I don't understand their obsession to show Arabs as the inferior ethnicity. I remember reading Arab-Persian wars article and it mentioned their superior complex over other ethnicities. But hey, our leaders- Omar R, Kalid and others brook this superiority complex in the hardest way could someone imagine. God bless Omar Bin Alkhattab.
> 
> 
> 
> unlike you i always respect mosa.atleast he is sometimes realist.i also respected him more when he selected Iran as his second flaq.But for a reason he suddenly turned into our enemy.
> i thank him again for his admirable post about new persian year.also other Iranian members thanked him.
Click to expand...


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## The SC

Mosamania said:


> BLACKEAGLE said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw your Persian new year post where you offered a truce and peace and all I can say to you is "Been there done that" As you can see to these people "Race" is extremely important and for some reason they think that the Persian gene is superior than all others let them think what they wish brother.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is only one human race or specie, the idea of different races and species belong to the animal kingdom and botanics.
Click to expand...


----------



## K-Xeroid

500 said:


> Abbasids were Arabs but with very strong Persian influence. Almost all their viziers were Persians and they often had more power than califs themselves.


Wat? Are You Mad? Strong persian Influence, Thats wat the cause of end of Abbasid Caliphate.. Thats wat you were taught in Israel, Its completly Non-sense you are spiting here... Umayyads and Abbasid Both are branches From same clam.. Abbasid clan still Love and respect Umayyad clan..


----------



## Surenas

Richard N. Frye felt that Persian civilization was under-appreciated by other Muslims, and Arab Muslims in particular. Frye wrote:



> "Arabs no longer understand the role of Iran and the Persian language in the formation of Islamic culture. Perhaps they wish to forget the past, but in so doing they remove the bases of their own spiritual, moral and cultural being&#8230;without the heritage of the past and a healthy respect for it&#8230;there is little chance for stability and proper growth."



This quote says it all.

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## 500

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Read and enjoy Arab greatness:
> 
> History of Science and Technology in Islam


I merely stated the fact: Ummayyad empire had very little science. If you check ur own link u will see that all scientists there are after 750 AD.


----------



## The SC

Surenas said:


> BLACKEAGLE said:
> 
> 
> 
> That depend on which Iranians you speak. The Arabs you mention are nothing to me. To me the greatest Iranian leaders are Cyrus the great, Dariush the Great, Shapur, Surena, etc. And maybe Iran is islamized, but the Persian culture is stronger than ever in Iran. The biggest festivity in Iran (Norooz) is of Persian/Zoroastrianism origin. People give their children more often a Persian name and the Shahname is for the Iranians like what the Quran is for muslims. No Iranian calls himself a Arab and they know their culture/history is far superior to the barbaric history of the Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are speaking for yourself from the Netherlands, Unless you want/intend to stir some trouble in Iran, you should watch your words, the name is The Islamic Republic Of Iran and the latest elections showed what the majority of Iranians think and want.
> Persians have accepted Islam and the Arabs who brought it to them since its inception 1500 years ago.
> 
> So how big an Iranian are you!, Persia was great 3000 years ago, and what you need to understand is that many civilisations preceded it and came after it.
> Mesopotamia, Assyria and others made Persia what you feel so proud of, and both were in Arab lands, today Iraq and Syria without talking about The Egyptian Arab civilisation of more than 15 000 years of history.
Click to expand...

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## Cloakedvessel

Surenas said:


> Richard N. Frye felt that Persian civilization was under-appreciated by other Muslims, and Arab Muslims in particular. Frye wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> This quote says it all.


 
Richard N. Frye also says:



> It is not possible to go into the details of the spread of Islam throughout the Arabian peninsula and beyond, but many tribes accepted the new faith and some who were not Arabs, such as the descendants of the Persians who had settled in Yemen. They not only accepted Islam but helped defeat the uprising of a local prophet called al-Aswad, and thereafter they were called Abna' or 'sons', a distinct group in early Islam. Other prophets in various parts of Arabia sought followers but they fell before the message of Islam. For the first time in history the Arab tribes were united in following a new faith which gave them a common ideology and a force which changed the history of the world. It was not only due to a common religion, but the Quran solidified for the
> Arabs a common language, a common culture and way of life. The inter-tribal rivalry was not ended, for it reappeared later during the Umayyad Caliphate, but Islam gave all Arabs a unity of purpose in conquests outside of the Arabian peninsula. This is a later story when the religion of the Arabs was transformed into a world religion with universal appeal.
> Although it took several centuries and contacts with many peoples an Islamic culture and civilization developed, which produced an Islamic art and architecture, Islamic literatures, first in Arabic and then in other languages, Islamic governments and societies. Because of the brilliance of Islamic civilization the time before Islam was called Jahiliyya 'age of ignorance', perhaps unjustly, but only because Islam so transformed the world from India and China to the Atlantic Ocean that what transpired before Islam seems completely pale in comparison. The history of Islam, however, belongs to the next period of world history.


----------



## Surenas

BLACKEAGLE said:


> 500 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read and enjoy Arab greatness:
> 
> History of Science and Technology in Islam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this 'Arab' greatness isn't that great. I spotted many Persian scientists in that article and credits given to Greeks.
> 
> 
> 
> Cloakedvessel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Richard N. Frye also says:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uh, ok? What does this have to do with the greatness of the Persian scientist and the fact that the Arab part in Islamic science is a tiny part?
Click to expand...

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## Cloakedvessel

Surenas said:


> BLACKEAGLE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this 'Arab' greatness isn't that great. I spotted many Persian scientists in that article and credits given to Greeks.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, ok? What does this have to do with the greatness of the Persian scientist and the fact that the Arab part in Islamic science is a tiny part?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the same man you quote, speaks highly of 'Islamic civilization' and 'Arabs'.
Click to expand...


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> BLACKEAGLE said:
> 
> 
> 
> That depend on which Iranians you speak. The Arabs you mention are nothing to me. To me the greatest Iranian leaders are Cyrus the great, Dariush the Great, Shapur, Surena, etc. And maybe Iran is islamized, but the Persian culture is stronger than ever in Iran. The biggest festivity in Iran (Norooz) is of Persian/Zoroastrianism origin. People give their children more often a Persian name and the Shahname is for the Iranians like what the Quran is for muslims. No Iranian calls himself a Arab and they know their culture/history is far superior to the barbaric history of the Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then, your nothing. Its as simple as that. As I stated before, you must be grateful to whom plucked you out of stench clutched of fire worship and guided you to the right path.
> 
> 
> 
> Surenas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BLACKEAGLE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this 'Arab' greatness isn't that great. I spotted many Persian scientists in that article and credits given to Greeks.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, ok? What does this have to do with the greatness of the Persian scientist and the fact that the Arab part in Islamic science is a tiny part?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will not start from the beginning, you just read previous posts and you will for sure find the answers.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## kollang

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Surenas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then, your nothing. Its as simple as that. As I stated before, you must be grateful to whom plucked you out of stench clutched of fire worship and guided you to the right path.
> 
> 
> 
> do we muslim worship a room?do christians worship the tree in chrismas?
> when the arabs were puting their alive daughters in the grave and were worshiping the stones we worshiping the GOD the great.
Click to expand...

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## Mahmoud_EGY

> Sorry but not Egyptian Mamluks were not Egyptian


the mumlks were elite troops they are not the whole army


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## Surenas

The SC said:


> You are speaking for yourself from the Netherlands, Unless you want/intend to stir some trouble in Iran, you should watch your words, the name is The Islamic Republic Of Iran and the latest elections showed what the majority of Iranians think and want.
> Persians have accepted Islam and the Arabs who brought it to them since its inception 1500 years ago.



I'm speaking for a great portion of the Iranian people. I don't give a damn what Iran today is called or what those rigged non-democratic elections in Iran showed. Persians have accepted only THEIR form of islam and they never accepted Arabs. Thats quite a difference.



> So how big an Iranian are you!, Persia was great 3000 years ago, and what you need to understand is that many civilisations preceded it and came after it.
> Mesopotamia, Assyria and others made Persia what you feel so proud of, and both were in Arab lands, today Iraq and Syria without talking about The Egyptian Arab civilisation of more than 15 000 years of history.



You show me if the Arabs could manage what the Iranian people did. And Mesopotamia, Egypt are not Arab lands. Their are the lands of Coptic people and Akkadians/Sumerians, etc.

The Iranic/Iranian people ruled more than 1000 years in the Middle-East and Central-Asia:

Median empire:







Persian empire:






Parthian empire:






Sassanid empire:






Scythians:








Cloakedvessel said:


> Because the same man you quote, speaks highly of 'Islamic civilization' and 'Arabs'.



Maybe highly of Islamic civilization, but not on Arabs. He doesn't mention Arab civilization at all, so don't make things like that up on yourself.



BLACKEAGLE said:


> I will not start from the beginning, you just read previous posts and you will for sure find the answers.



You can start with quoting respected historians and not some irrelevant Pan-Arabist who in all their blindness can't see that something like Arab civilization never existed. I can name you great cities like Rome, Athene and Persepolis. I challenge you to name one great ancient city build by Arabs.

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## BLACKEAGLE

kollang said:


> BLACKEAGLE said:
> 
> 
> 
> do we muslim worship a room?do christians worship the tree in chrismas?
> when the arabs were puting their alive daughters in the grave and were worshiping the stones we worshiping the GOD the great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good, you just have contradicted yourself in the silliest way ever. Arabs worshiped Allah through stones, but they were the chosen people to carry Islam flag. And thats why I said your ungrateful to those great people. I love your media praising Arab Ali R Fatima R and Hussien R. Arabs problem is they have always adopting Islam and not race. But I will adopt race with people like you.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> You are speaking for yourself from the Netherlands, Unless you want/intend to stir some trouble in Iran, you should watch your words, the name is The Islamic Republic Of Iran and the latest elections showed what the majority of Iranians think and want.
> Persians have accepted Islam and the Arabs who brought it to them since its inception 1500 years ago.
> 
> So how big an Iranian are you!, Persia was great 3000 years ago, and what you need to understand is that many civilisations preceded it and came after it.
> Mesopotamia, Assyria and others made Persia what you feel so proud of, and both were in Arab lands, today Iraq and Syria without talking about The Egyptian Arab civilisation of more than 15 000 years of history.



the problem is you think accepting Islam means accepting Arabs . well it's not the case .
and The name is Islamic Republic of Iran , I don't see any Arab in it .
we accepted Islam but we kept our tradition ,for example your greatest feast is Eid ul-Fitr but ours is norooz
your language is Arabic but ours is Persian . and still remain the fact that our science and Art and literature
was in a coma when we were under Ommayed dynasty but after we made our own Dynasties at the end of
Ommayed ,you see Iranian Artists , poets and .... show themselves and the golden age of Muslims begin

about Avesina name lets not enter in a heated discussion his birth place was in Iran , he died in Iran and he
never left Iran , so where the Idea of he being Arab come from ?

and about Mesopotamia Civilization they were not Arab after Arab invasion they lost their Culture and become
Arabs .and for gods sake Egyptian were nor Arab neither Semite and certainly they have no 15000 year history

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## darkinsky

Ottoman-Turk said:


> yes thats true mongolians done that thats why their country is poor and they legacy is dust and hated also indians bow down to your white masters ahhahahahah 'GOD SAVE THE QUEEN' kiss the queens foot muahahah



yes dude thats pure trolling, they didnt bow down easily, they fought, if you read the history you will come to know, indian muslims also supported you guys in your liberation, so you shouldnt talk like that

india was a lucrative business for the colonist turkey was not, it had resources to fuel their empire

but its indeed sad to see pakistan and india in common wealth


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Birbal said:


> This Arab-Iran rivalry is so divisive. Now even Israelis are fighting with each other.



ARSENAL6 is not Israeli, check some of his previous posts.


----------



## nalandapride

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Good, you just have contradicted yourself in the silliest way ever. Arabs worshiped Allah through stones, but they were the chosen people to carry Islam flag. And thats why I said your ungrateful to those great people. I love your media praising Arab Ali R Fatima R and Hussien R. Arabs problem is they have always adopt Islam and not race. But I will adopt race with people like you.



The thing is mate changing religion doesn't changes anyone's identity,If Iranians feel proud of their non-Muslim ancestors, what is bad in it. I think some people expect others to disown the the rich heritage left by their ancestors even if that has nothing to take with religion. I was reading how Coptic language was made extinct by Arabs. Berbers are still struggling to preserve their lingual identity. A Coptic friend of mine was telling me Arabs conquerors used to make mockery of Coptic language and it was banned to be spoken in public places including harsh punishment and Coptic language got extinct. What language has to do with religion.


----------



## Mattrixx

JEskandari said:


> The SC said:
> 
> 
> 
> the problem is you think accepting Islam means accepting Arabs . well it's not the case .
> and The name is Islamic Republic of Iran , I don't see any Arab in it .
> we accepted Islam but we kept our tradition ,for example your greatest feast is Eid ul-Fitr but ours is norooz
> your language is Arabic but ours is Persian . and still remain the fact that our science and Art and literature
> was in a coma when we were under Ommayed dynasty but after we made our own Dynasties at the end of
> Ommayed ,you see Iranian Artists , poets and .... show themselves and the golden age of Muslims begin
> 
> about Avesina name lets not enter in a heated discussion his birth place was in Iran , he died in Iran and he
> never left Iran , so where the Idea of he being Arab come from ?
> 
> and about Mesopotamia Civilization they were not Arab after Arab invasion they lost their Culture and become
> Arabs .and for gods sake Egyptian were nor Arab neither Semite and certainly they have no 15000 year history
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can u plz tell that what is the problem between arab countries with iran that their is no good relation between them.Is that for something difference in islam.
Click to expand...


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> the mumlks were elite troops they are not the whole army




&#1605;&#1582;&#1578;&#1604;&#1601; &#1601;&#1610; &#1571;&#1589;&#1604;&#1607;&#1548; &#1601;&#1576;&#1610;&#1606;&#1605;&#1575; &#1578;&#1584;&#1603;&#1585; &#1580;&#1605;&#1610;&#1593; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1575;&#1583;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1585;&#1576;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1605;&#1604;&#1608;&#1603;&#1610;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1589;&#1604;&#1610;&#1577;[3][4][5][6][7][8][9] &#1571;&#1606;&#1607; &#1578;&#1585;&#1603;&#1610; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1576;&#1580;&#1575;&#1602; (&#1603;&#1575;&#1586;&#1575;&#1582;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606; &#1581;&#1575;&#1604;&#1610;&#1575;&#1611 &#1608;&#1575;&#1587;&#1605;&#1607; &#1576;&#1610;&#1576;&#1585;&#1587; &#1575;&#1587;&#1605; &#1578;&#1585;&#1603;&#1610; &#1605;&#1572;&#1604;&#1601; &#1605;&#1606; "&#1576;&#1610;" &#1571;&#1610; &#1571;&#1605;&#1610;&#1585; &#1608;"&#1576;&#1585;&#1587;"
ÙØ¹Ø±ÙØ© Ø¹ÙÙ Ø¬Ø§ÙÙØª - ÙÙÙÙØ¨ÙØ¯ÙØ§Ø Ø§ÙÙÙØ³ÙØ¹Ø© Ø§ÙØ­Ø±Ø©
Ø§ÙØ¸Ø§ÙØ± Ø¨ÙØ¨Ø±Ø³ - ÙÙÙÙØ¨ÙØ¯ÙØ§Ø Ø§ÙÙÙØ³ÙØ¹Ø© Ø§ÙØ­Ø±Ø©
ÙØ·Ø² - ÙÙÙÙØ¨ÙØ¯ÙØ§Ø Ø§ÙÙÙØ³ÙØ¹Ø© Ø§ÙØ­Ø±Ø©


----------



## Hack-Hook

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Good, you just have contradicted yourself in the silliest way ever. Arabs worshiped Allah through stones, but they were the chosen people to carry Islam flag. And thats why I said your ungrateful to those great people. I love your media praising Arab Ali R Fatima R and Hussien R. Arabs problem is they have always adopt Islam and not race. But I will adopt race with people like you.


Chosen people ? I guess I heard it somewhere else (several time)

you know arabs diidn't worshiped Allah through Stones at least not as the only God


> In pre-Islamic Arabia, Allah was used by Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity.[20] Allah was not considered the sole divinity; however, Allah was considered the creator of the world and the giver of rain. The notion of the term may have been vague in the Meccan religion.[8] Allah was associated with companions, whom pre-Islamic Arabs considered as subordinate deities. Meccans held that a kind of kinship existed between Allah and the jinn.[21] Allah was thought to have had sons[22] and that the local deities of al-&#703;Uzz&#257;, Man&#257;t and al-L&#257;t were His daughters.[23] The Meccans possibly associated angels with Allah.[24][25] Allah was invoked in times of distress.[25][26] Muhammad's father's name was &#703;Abd-All&#257;h meaning "the slave of All&#257;h".[25]


Allah is just a name whats important is the meaning behind the name.
and why adopting the race ? what have the race to do with the faith . well if you can prove me
Islam is not from God for all the people but it's a religion made by an Arab for Arabs I officially 
change my religion right away.

Islam has nothing to do to a person or race , I guess even all Sunni and Shia clerics believe as me


----------



## darkinsky

dudes,be its Iranians,TUrks, Arabs, etc etc etc we are all muslims and we all have sad state of affairs, we are not advanced and developed all other countries are , we all depend on other non muslim countries for are defences, so lets not fight ourselves as if we are more superior muslims then others

arab guys stop saying you are superior, this also stands for turks and iranians, please behave like a mature person


----------



## IbnAlwaled

500 said:


> Ummayyad Empire had almost zero science. All Muslim science started with Abbasids (Persians).


The Abbasid Empire were Arabs. Every single one of them.

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## Hack-Hook

madx said:


> Can u plz tell that what is the problem between arab countries with iran that their is no good relation between them.Is that for something difference in islam.


there is no problem only they want to take our lands , our artists , our scientists , our heritage
and in the course of history they several time made decree and fatwa that we are worse than 
heathens ,they can kill us without any consequence.

by the way we have good relation with many of the Arabs our problem is with a small group of
them that come to power with the help of British empire , the ones that believe only their understanding 
of Islam is correct and the others are wrong and must be shown the correct way forcibly (blown up by 
suicide bombers in bazaars and school buses ).

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## Mahmoud_EGY

BLACKEAGLE said:


> &#1605;&#1582;&#1578;&#1604;&#1601; &#1601;&#1610; &#1571;&#1589;&#1604;&#1607;&#1548; &#1601;&#1576;&#1610;&#1606;&#1605;&#1575; &#1578;&#1584;&#1603;&#1585; &#1580;&#1605;&#1610;&#1593; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1575;&#1583;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1585;&#1576;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1605;&#1604;&#1608;&#1603;&#1610;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1589;&#1604;&#1610;&#1577;[3][4][5][6][7][8][9] &#1571;&#1606;&#1607; &#1578;&#1585;&#1603;&#1610; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1576;&#1580;&#1575;&#1602; (&#1603;&#1575;&#1586;&#1575;&#1582;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606; &#1581;&#1575;&#1604;&#1610;&#1575;&#1611 &#1608;&#1575;&#1587;&#1605;&#1607; &#1576;&#1610;&#1576;&#1585;&#1587; &#1575;&#1587;&#1605; &#1578;&#1585;&#1603;&#1610; &#1605;&#1572;&#1604;&#1601; &#1605;&#1606; "&#1576;&#1610;" &#1571;&#1610; &#1571;&#1605;&#1610;&#1585; &#1608;"&#1576;&#1585;&#1587;"
> Ù&#8230;Ø¹Ø±Ù&#402;Ø© Ø¹Ù&#352;Ù&#8224; Ø¬Ø§Ù&#8222;Ù&#710;Øª - Ù&#710;Ù&#352;Ù&#402;Ù&#352;Ø¨Ù&#352;Ø¯Ù&#352;Ø§Ø&#338; Ø§Ù&#8222;Ù&#8230;Ù&#710;Ø³Ù&#710;Ø¹Ø© Ø§Ù&#8222;Ø*Ø±Ø©
> Ø§Ù&#8222;Ø¸Ø§Ù&#8225;Ø± Ø¨Ù&#352;Ø¨Ø±Ø³ - Ù&#710;Ù&#352;Ù&#402;Ù&#352;Ø¨Ù&#352;Ø¯Ù&#352;Ø§Ø&#338; Ø§Ù&#8222;Ù&#8230;Ù&#710;Ø³Ù&#710;Ø¹Ø© Ø§Ù&#8222;Ø*Ø±Ø©
> Ù&#8218;Ø·Ø² - Ù&#710;Ù&#352;Ù&#402;Ù&#352;Ø¨Ù&#352;Ø¯Ù&#352;Ø§Ø&#338; Ø§Ù&#8222;Ù&#8230;Ù&#710;Ø³Ù&#710;Ø¹Ø© Ø§Ù&#8222;Ø*Ø±Ø©


&#1575;&#1606;&#1575; &#1576;&#1603;&#1604;&#1605; &#1593;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1580;&#1610;&#1588; &#1608; &#1575;&#1606;&#1577; &#1575;&#1603;&#1578;&#1585;&#1610;&#1578;&#1577; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1610;&#1610;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1605;&#1575;&#1604;&#1610;&#1603; &#1603;&#1575;&#1606;&#1608; &#1586;&#1609; &#1608;&#1581;&#1583;&#1575;&#1578; &#1601;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1580;&#1610;&#1588; &#1576;&#1587; &#1605;&#1588; &#1575;&#1604;&#1580;&#1610;&#1588; &#1603;&#1604;&#1577;


----------



## Hack-Hook

IbnAlwaled said:


> The Abbasid Empire were Arabs. Every single one of them.


and all their great ministers were Persian , and their caliphs come to power with the help of Iranian
and when ever Iranian wanted changed their caliphs and it was at this time that Iran made its dynasties
and it was at the time of those dynasties that Islamic golden Age showed itself . 
Abbasid Dynasties was by chance at the time of those dynasties which were contributing to Islamic golden age

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## Mattrixx

All Muslims should be united all around the world Though its not possible for the non muslims. They r making so many division between us so that they can take everything from us.


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## IbnAlwaled

500 said:


> Abbasids were Arabs but with very strong Persian influence. Almost all their viziers were Persians and they often had more power than califs themselves.





> and all their great ministers were Persian , and their caliphs come to power with the help of Iranian
> and when ever Iranian wanted changed their caliphs and it was at this time that Iran made its dynasties
> and it was at the time of those dynasties that Islamic golden Age showed itself .
> Abbasid Dynasties was by chance at the time of those dynasties which were contributing to Islamic golden age


Nonsense. You can't change history.

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## The SC

Surenas said:


> I'm speaking for a great portion of the Iranian people. I don't give a damn what Iran today is called or what those rigged non-democratic elections in Iran showed. Persians have accepted only THEIR form of islam and they never accepted Arabs. Thats quite a difference.
> 
> You show me if the Arabs could manage what the Iranian people did. And Mesopotamia, Egypt are not Arab lands. Their are the lands of Coptic people and Akkadians/Sumerians, etc.
> 
> The Iranic/Iranian people ruled more than 1000 years in the Middle-East and Central-Asia:
> 
> Median empire:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Persian empire:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Parthian empire:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sassanid empire:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scythians:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe highly of Islamic civilization, but not on Arabs. He doesn't mention Arab civilization at all, so don't make things like that up on yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> You can start with quoting respected historians and not some irrelevant Pan-Arabist who in all their blindness can't see that something like Arab civilization never existed. I can name you great cities like Rome, Athene and Persepolis. I challenge you to name one great ancient city build by Arabs.



Do not challenge here please, you will loose:

I would like to shed some more light on the origin of the Arabs, some facts confirm that there was an Arab civilisation prior to islam here are the facts:

1. The Arabs Semitic(some say Aryan who adopted the Semitic language) ancestors in the Fertile Crescent and Egypt produced 5 brilliant ancient civilizations, which benefited the earliest Western civilizations of Greece and Rome. These 5 are: the Iraqi Sumerian and Babylonian civilizations; the Egyptian Pharaonic civilization; the Lebanese Phoenician civilization; and the Palestinian Canaanite civilization.

2. The 3 Semitic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam were all born in the Arab region.

3. The Post-Islamic Arab civilization contributed handsomely to the European Renaissance.

I

Arab Civilization before Islam

Contrary to some popular Western misconceptions propagated by many Western "experts" and "authorities" on the Arab world alleging that Arabs did not have any civilization before Islam, or that Arabs were nothing more than a collection of nomadic warring primitive tribes, confined solely to the Arabian Peninsula, who spent most of their existence looking for food and water, the historical record proves otherwise. In fact, centuries before the birth of Islam, the Arabs had several civilizations, not only in the Arabian Peninsula itself, but also in the Fertile Crescent, some of which were highly advanced with elaborate development and culture. Although Arab civilization before Islam might not have had a noticeable impact on Greece and Rome, it is nonetheless important to briefly mention here the following pre-Islamic Arab civilizations in order to dispel this wrong conventional Western notion that Arabs had no civilization before the birth of Islam, were nothing but wandering nomads, and were confined only to the Arabian Peninsula.

1

The Kingdom of Saba (or Sheba)

One of the earliest and most important of all pre-Islamic Arab civilizations is the Qahtani Kingdom of Saba or Sheba (10th century BCE  7th century CE), which had an elaborate civilization, legendary in its reputation of prosperity and wealth. The Kingdom of Saba was located in the southwestern mountainous rainy parts of the Arabian Peninsula in what is known today as the regions of Aseer and Yemen. Envious of its wealth, the Romans named it Arabia Felix (fortunate or prosperous Arabia).

The Sabaean capital, Ma'rib, was located near San'a, today's capital of Yemen, which was reportedly founded by Noah's eldest son Shem (or "Sam" in Arabic) from whose name the word "Sami" in Arabic or "Semitic" in English comes. In addition to their domains in the Arabian Penisula, the Sabaean kings controlled for a long time some parts of the East African coast across the Red Sea where they established the Kingdom of Abyssinia, which is Eritrea today. It should be indicated here that the name Abyssinia comes from the Arabic word Habashah. One of the most famous rulers of the Sabaeans was Queen Balgais. This mystic Arab Queen of Sheba was well known for her beauty, grace, wealth, charm, and splendor. She reportedly had a famous impassioned encounter with the Hebrew King Solomon when she took a special trip to Jerusalem

The Sabaean Kingdom produced and traded in spices, Arabian frankincense, myrrh, and other Arabian aromatics. The Sabaeans excelled in agriculture and had a remarkable irrigation system with terraced mountains, incredible huge water tunnels in mountains and great dams including the legendary Ma'rib Dam, which was built around 2000 BCE. This Arab dam was considered to be one of the greatest technological wonders of the ancient world. However, the tragic breaking of the Ma'rib Dam around 575, as indicated in the Qur'an, was an event of very traumatic proportions in the collective consciousness of all Arabs at the time and of later generations.

2

The Kingdom of Himyar

The Arab Kingdom of Himyar (115 BCE to 525 CE), which was also located in the southern part of the Arabian Peninsula, had a sizable number of Arab Christians and Arab Jews (not Hebrews). The most prominent Arab Jew of this kingdom was King Dhu al-Nuwas who persecuted his Arab Christian subjects. He reportedly incinerated some of them alive in retaliation for their persecution of Arab Jews in neighboring Arab Christian Najran.

From their capital city, first at Zafar and later at San'a, the powerful Himyarite kings executed military plans which resulted in the expansion of their domains at times eastward as far as the Persian Gulf and northward into the Arabian Desert. However, internal disorder and the changing of trade routes eventually caused the kingdom to suffer political and economic decline. In fact, after several unsuccessful attempts, the African Abyssinians finally invaded the Arab Himyarite Kingdom in 525. In 570, the year Prophet Mohammad was born, the Abyssinian governor Abraha sent an army of elephant-borne troops in an unsuccessful attempt to attack the city of Makkah (Mecca) and destroy its Ka'bah. In 575 the Persians invaded Himyar and ended the Abyssinian presence in Himyar. But the Persians did not last long there either. Soon thereafter Islam swept the entire Arabian Peninsula.

3

The Nabataean Kingdom

The Arab Nabataean Kingdom was established in the 6th century BCE. It was located south of the Dead Sea and along the eastern shores of the Gulf of Aqaba in the northern parts of the Hejaz. The Nabataeans had their capital city in Petra that was a flourishing center of commerce and civilization. The Nabataeans great achievements and culture are still echoed in the magnificent carved-in-the-mountains monuments they left behind. Thousands of tourists from all over the world are attracted every year to this Arab region to see these monuments not only at Petra in Jordan but also in Saudi Arabia's Mada'in Salih (i.e., Prophet Salih who warned the Thamud Arab Kingdom to worship Allah before the birth of Prophet Mohammad). The small Arab neighboring Kingdoms of Ad, Thamud, and Lihyan - all also with brilliant monuments and achievements mentioned in the Qu'ran - came under the Nabataean suzerainty for a while.

The Arab Nabataean Kingdom, which at its zenith ruled much of the Syrian interior including Damascus, later became a vassal Roman state and eventually fell victim to European colonialism when it was absorbed into the Roman Empire as the "Provincia Arabia" in 195 CE. In fact, the Roman Emperor Philip, who ruled from 244 to 249, was ethnically an Arab from this Arab Nabataean region. Incidentally, this Roman Emperor who was known as "Philip the Arab", was preceded to the Palatine Hill in Rome by a series of Arab empresses, half-Arab emperors, and the fully Arab Elagabulus of Emesa. It is also believed by some scholars that Philip the Arab was really the first Roman Christian emperor (244-249 CE) rather than Constantine I who ruled the Roman Empire (312-337 CE) 63 years after him.

4

The Kingdom of Tadmor (or Palmyra)

Another important Arab civilization before Islam was the famous Kingdom of Palmyra (or Tadmor in Arabic), which is now Hims in Syria. Although mentioned in some history books as early as the 9th century BCE, Tadmor became only prominent in the 3rd century BCE when it controlled the vital trade route between Mesopotamia and the Mediterranean. The Tadmorians had a great civilization and excelled in international trade. However, like the Nabataeans, they eventually came under the control of the expanding Roman imperialism by becoming another client Arab state of Rome.

In 265 the Tadmorian Arab King Udhayna (or Odenathus) was rewarded by the Romans to become a vice-emperor of the Roman Empire because of his assistance in their war against Persia. However, King Udhayna's widow Zainab (aka az-Zabba or Zenobia), the famous strong Arab queen wanted nothing less for Palmyra than a complete independence from Rome. She succeeded in temporarily driving the Roman invaders out of most of the Fertile Crescent and proclaimed her son Wahballat (or Athenodorus) to be the true emperor of a new independent Arab Palmyra. Queen Zainab's Arabian independent spirit, however, deeply angered the Romans and eventually resulted in the destruction of the Tadmorian Kingdom in 273 by a powerful force of the Roman imperial army. As part of the Roman victory celebration, queen Zainab was brutally taken to Rome in golden chains.

5

The Kingdom of Kindah

Kindat al-Muluk (or the Royal Kindah) was a famous Arab kingdom, which originated in the southern Arabian Peninsula near Yemen's Hadramawt region. Its capital city, al-Fau, was excavated northeast of Najran in Saudi Arabia in 1972 by Saudi archaeologists from King Saud University in Riyadh. The Kingdom of Kindah became prominent around the late 5th and early 6th centuries CE when it made one of the earliest and successful efforts to unite several Arab tribes under its new domain in Najd in central Arabia.

The traditional founder and ruler of Kindah was Hujr Akil al-Murar. However, the most renowned of all Kindah kings was al-Harith ibn Amr, Hujr's grandson, who extended his kingdom's domain north by invading Iraq and temporarily capturing al-Hirah, the capital city of the Arab Christian Kingdom of Lakhmid. But in 529 al-Hirah was liberated by its Christian Arabs who killed King al-Harith along with 50 members of his family. After al-Harith's death, the Kindah Kingdom split up into four factions - Asad, Taghlib, Kinanah, and Qays - each led by a prince. The famous pre-Islamic Arab poet Imru' al-Qays (who died around 540) was the prince of Qays. The continuing feuding between these Arab factions, however, eventually forced the Kindah princes by the middle of the 6th century to withdraw to their original place in southern Arabia next to Yemen. Nevertheless, after Islam was established throughout the Arabian Peninsula, many descendants of the Royal Kindah continued to hold powerful political positions within the Islamic state. In fact, one branch of the Royal Kindah was even successful in gaining great political influence in far away Arab Andalusia in the European Iberian Peninsula.

6

The Kingdom of Lakhmid

The Arab Christian Kingdom of Lakhmid, which originated in the 3rd century CE, reached the height of its power during the 6th century under King al-Munthir III (503-554). Its domain covered from the western shores of the Persian Gulf all the way north to Iraq where its capital city, al-Hira, was located on the Euphrates River near present day Kufah. Working in close cooperation with the Zoroastrian Persian Sasanian Empire to which the Lakhmid Kingdom was a vassal state, al-Munthir III raided and frequently challenged the pro-Byzantine Arab Kingdom of Ghassan in Syria. His son King Amr Ibn Hind was patron of the legendary Arab poet Tarfah Ibn al-Abd and other poets associated with the seven Mu'allaqat (the Suspended Odes") of pre-Islamic Arabia (see "The Jahiliyyah" below). The Lakhmid dynasty eventually disintegrated after the death of its great Arab Christian King an-Nu'man III in 602.

7

The Kingdom of Ghassan

As the Lakhmid Arab Kingdom was Christian so was its Arab neighbor to the west, the Kingdom of Ghassan, whose capital city was Damascus. This Syrian Ghassanid Kingdom was prominent in the 6th century and was an ally of the Byzantine Empire. It protected the vital spice trade route from the south of the Arabian Peninsula and also acted as a buffer against the desert bedouins.

The Ghassanid King al-Harith Ibn Jabalah (reigned 529-569), who was a Monophysite Christian, supported the Christian Byzantine Empire against the Zoroastrian Sasanian Persian Empire and successfully opposed the Arab Kingdom of Lakhmids, which sided with Persians. As a result, King al-Harith was given the title of Patricius by the Byzantine emperor Justinian.

Like the Lakhmids, the Ghassanids patronized the arts and many literary geniuses such as al-Nabighah al-Thubyani and Hassan Ibn Thabit. Great Arab poets like them were frequently entertained in the royal courts of the Ghassanid kings. After the emergence of Islam in the 7th century, most inhabitants of the Kingdom of Ghassan became Muslim. One of the most prominent poets of the Kingdom of Ghassan was Hassan Ibn Thabit. Ibn Thabit, who espoused Islam, wrote several famous and beautiful poems in praise of Prophet Mohammad.

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## The SC

Surenas said:


> Richard N. Frye felt that Persian civilization was under-appreciated by other Muslims, and Arab Muslims in particular. Frye wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> This quote says it all.




The quote is false, since the Islamic civilisation was based on the Arabic language, the language of Al Kuran .


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## The SC

Audio said:


> Theory doesn't need experiments. At least not in this sense, maybe you are confusing it with scientific theories..
> In history pretty much everything is theory with no experiments apart from the few remains we can find that give a glimpse into lives long ago.



Archaeology is very advanced today and the findings are enormous, astonishing, mind boggling, and changing history as we know it today backed by scientific facts and proofs.


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## Hack-Hook

IbnAlwaled said:


> Nonsense. You can't change history.


yes the history can't be changed .
this show who brought Abbasid to power. Abu Muslim Khorasani
and this link show that Iran after 821 was not under the control of Abbasid. Muslim dynasties of Iran 
and this one show the relation between Iranian dynasties and Abbasid . Buyid dynasty

and you claim it was not Iranian who changed Amin with Mamoon and it was not Iranian who made al-Musta'in to reside in favor of al-Mu'tazz
and you are going to deny the fact that at the time of Buyid dynasty they were the true ruler of Abbasid not the caliph . and are you denying the downfall of Abbasid begin when Haaroon-Al rashid killed Barmakian

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## FairAndUnbiased

Surenas said:


> A theory need experiments? Haha, and you are studying at the university of California? Audio is right. A theory doesn't need experiments. You just demonstrated your lack of knowledge. How pathetic is that. I'm studying at the University of Amsterdam. A respected university.



A theory is backed by experiments and proof. Einstein's theory of relativity was backed by atomic clock time dilation measurements, laser rangefinding to the moon and measurement of light deflection by the sun during total solar eclipses. A theory without proof is just an idea or at best, a definition. Chau had an idea, and made a definition; that is not a theory.

This is a theory in social sciences/history: Kondratiev wave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Backed by statistical data.

And you're studying at University of Amsterdam? Probably a liberal arts major.

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## BLACKEAGLE

JEskandari said:


> and all their great ministers were Persian , and their caliphs come to power with the help of Iranian
> and when ever Iranian wanted changed their caliphs and it was at this time that Iran made its dynasties
> and it was at the time of those dynasties that Islamic golden Age showed itself .
> Abbasid Dynasties was by chance at the time of those dynasties which were contributing to Islamic golden age



Its funny how some members here are able of delusionizing even themelves.


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## Serpentine

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Its funny how some members here are able of delusionizing even themelves.


Instead of saying bs,why don't you try proving otherwise what he said?
Why can't you accept history?What are you after?You want everyone accept that Arabs were the best,Arabs did everything and other bs?This is not gonna happen,because history is what has happened,not what is going to happen.

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## Surenas

The Sumerians/Akkadians in Mesopotamia, the Coptic in Egypt and the Phoenicians of Lebanon weren't Arabs. You can't find one historian in the world who will acknowledge that. And for 'The SC': the Arab kingdoms you mention got nothing on the Persians, Greeks or Romans. You can not name one great invention of those kingdoms nor they build cities like Persepolis, Rome and Athene. Those Arab kingdoms are just like those small irrelevant kingdoms of Africa.

The Persians & Greeks: Crash Course World History #5 - YouTube

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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> The Sumerians/Akkadians in Mesopotamia, the Coptic in Egypt and the Phoenicians of Lebanon weren't Arabs. You can't find one historian in the world who will acknowledge that. And for 'The SC': the Arab kingdoms you mention got nothing on the Persians, Greeks or Romans. You can not name one great invention of those kingdoms nor they build cities like Persepolis, Rome and Athene. Those Arab kingdoms are just like those small irrelevant kingdoms of Africa.
> 
> The Persians & Greeks: Crash Course World History #5 - YouTube



But they are the ancestors of todays Arabs...
Don't forget Pharoons:





Nabatiens:


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## Surenas

The Coptic pharaohs and the Nabateans weren't Arabs. In fact, the Nabateans distincfly saw themselves different than the Arabs. So the photos you posted got nothing to do with the Arabs. Fail.

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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> The Coptic pharaohs and the Nabateans weren't Arabs. In fact, the Nabateans distincfly saw themselves different than the Arabs. So the photos you posted got nothing to do with the Arabs. Fail.


Man!! Nabateins are my ancestors! how come I am not an Arab? and how come Egyptians are not Arab now either?!
Every single Arab country has its own great civilization, I am proud of my ancestors and I am so proud to be an Arab as well.


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## Surenas

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Man!! Nabateins are my ancestors! how come I am not an Arab? and how come Egyptians are not Arab now either?!
> Every single Arab country has its great civilization, I am proud of my ancestors and I am so proud to be an Arab as well.



Thats because you have a narrow view of what the Arabs really are. All of those people you mention aren't Arabs and during their time they don't saw themselves as Arabs. I don't give a damn which people now call themselves Arabs. I'm talking about history, not present time. Fact is that throughout history the most people who came in contact with the Arabs saw them as barbaric savages without any civilization. From North Africa to Iran. Even now, you are considered to be a backward people with middle-ages views. While in every country we immigrate too we are among the most educated people, your people are famous in Europe for raping woman, stealing and barbaric behavior. 

Al Jazeera arab self-criticism MEMRI TV - YouTube

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## yahya07

You will always find delusional pseudo-Iranians like Suraenas constantly gloating and fantasising of some mystical ancient history that happened thousands of years ago while sobbing and blaming all their current miseries on the backward uncultured barbaric Arabs who "destroyed" their homeland. This narrative is very common among the racial supremacists Iranians who live or been exiled in the West. If only they put down their popular fiction books and see Iranians have been poor and miserable for thousands of more years being conquered and subjugated by anyone who tried. Anyhow the Iranians in ancient history are not the same today by any respectable measure - genetics, language, culture, religion etc. Point bank - your history is no more "glorious" than that of what the Arabs have achieved or for that matter the Chinese, Indians, Russians etc.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> Thats because you have a narrow view of what the Arabs really are. All of those people you mention aren't Arabs and during their time they don't saw themselves as Arabs. I don't give a damn which people now call themselves Arabs. I'm talking about history, not present time. Fact is that throughout history the most people who came in contact with the Arabs saw them as barbaric savages without any civilization. From North Africa to Iran. Even now, you are considered to be a backward people with middle-ages views. While in every country we immigrate too we are among the most educated people, your people are famous in Europe for raping woman, stealing and barbaric behavior.
> 
> Al Jazeera arab self-criticism MEMRI TV - YouTube



The last thing we would ever think of is a Persian instructing us about who is an Arab and who is not. Anyway, the greatest civilizations in history were made by Arabs ancestors. live with it my friend. Arabs were sth else before being Arabs. Its like you are saying that Allah created first Arabs, Persians....etc.

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## Surenas

yahya07 said:


> You will always find delusional pseudo-Iranians like Suraenas constantly gloating and fantasising of some mystical ancient history that happened thousands of years ago while sobbing and blaming all their current miseries on the backward uncultured barbaric Arabs who "destroyed" their homeland.



You're African?

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## ARSENAL6

kollang said:


> BLACKEAGLE said:
> 
> 
> 
> do we muslim worship a room?do christians worship the tree in chrismas?
> when the arabs were puting their alive daughters in the grave and were worshiping the stones we worshiping the GOD the great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHAT ! This is why I get so annoyed
> 
> what the hell does that got to do with Islam at all ?
> HAve you gone beyond retardness that you seemed to miss the entire point about ISlam Why it was brought down , How it was brought down and what it contained ?
> 
> JUST BEACUSE THE ARABS WERE PAGEN BEFROE ISLAM DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE ANY LESS WHEN ISLAM CAME ABOUT. IN fact Islam is SUperior and its the LAST message that God send. If your monotheistic faith is so great why did God sent down 3 more after yours ?
> 
> WHy...its because it got corrupt over time by men.
> Furthermore I don't say out of pride that Islam is superior but a fact it can never be corrupt
> Its not an arab religion its religion for the creation of the ENtire Universe , A universe that God, Allah(swt) created. And I'm sorry to say there is no one including Muslim that could ever corrupted because ALlah(SWT) has protected. Just look at the extremist that justify voilence in Islam name yet in hadeath, Quran and the history of the prophet Mohamid(Pbuh) never show such violence.
Click to expand...

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## BLACKEAGLE

yahya07 said:


> You will always find delusional pseudo-Iranians like Suraenas constantly gloating and fantasising of some mystical ancient history that happened thousands of years ago while sobbing and blaming all their current miseries on the backward uncultured barbaric Arabs who "destroyed" their homeland. This narrative is very common among the racial supremacists Iranians who live or been exiled in the West. If only they put down their popular fiction books and see Iranians have been poor and miserable for thousands of more years being conquered and subjugated by anyone who tried. Anyhow the Iranians in ancient history are not the same today by any respectable measure - genetics, language, culture, religion etc. Point bank - your history is no more "glorious" than that of what the Arabs have achieved or for that matter the Chinese, Indians, Russians etc.



Persians created a civilization but they have no proof at all that it was greater than others, so they are blaming Arabs of destroying their "libraries" and killed their "scientists". And thats why they also trying to steal Ummayad and Abbasid great attachments in all areas. Its pathetic. Its inferiority complex.

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## Surenas

I don't have to proof Persians have a greater civilization than the Arabs; history and historians will. Maybe somebody can name me a respected historian who put the Persian empire below or on a same level as the Arabs?

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## ARSENAL6

Surenas said:


> You're African?


 


DOn't be racist 
AFricans had a suprior History as well about same time as the Romans
Go educate yourself or is that too difficult for you.

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## Ottoman-Turk

lol i read all these pages i started this thread and it moved from turkish defence but now its 15 pages lol when i see british empire i get angry , and a bit jealous but when i see them ruling many places that didnt even have weapons i dnt mind i see that their policy was to loot and get others wealth while ours was to defeat the christian world , not counquer poor african countries but to conquer strong europeon thats why im so proud, 

The 16 Great Turkish Empires

1) The "GREAT HUN EMPIRE" - 204 B.C - 216 A.D
Founder - Mete (Bagatir)
Area - At the north, Siberia; south, Tibet - Kashmir; east, Pacific Ocean; west, Caspian Sea; (Total Area - 18,000,000 Km 2)

2) The "WESTERN HUN EMPIRE" - 48 - 216 A.D

Founder - Panu
Area - The area over present Central Asia

3) The "EUROPEAN HUN EMPIRE" - 275 - 454 A.D

Founder - Muncuk, Oktar, Rua & Aybars (brothers)
Area - Southern Russia, Romania, Northern
Yugoslavia, Hungary, Austria, Chekoslovakia, Southern & Central Germany; The area from eastern France to the Ural mountains; from northern Hungary to the Byzantine Empire; (Total Area - 4,000,000 Km 2)

4) The "WHITE HUN EMPIRE" - 420 - 552 A.D

Founder - Aksuvar (Aksungur)
Area - Half of northern India,
Afghanistan, parts of Turkistan (Total Area - 3,500,000 Km 2)

5) The "GOKTURK EMPIRE" - 552 - 743 A.D

Founder - Bumin Khan (Tumen)
Area - The inacessible valleys of the Altay Mountains (Ergenikon) (Total Area - 18,000,000 Km 2)

6) The "AVAR EMPIRE" - 562 - 796 A.D

Founder - Bayar Khan
Area - The area between the Volga, Hungary and Bessarabia

7) The "HAZAR EMPIRE" - 602 - 1016 A.D

Founder - There are no historical data as to the original founder, however, its greatest ruler was Hakan Yusuf.
Area - The Hazars who are believed to be an offshoot of the Gokturks migrated to the West and formed a state stretching from the Caucasian Mntns to the Danube and to the middle of and Southern Russia.

8) The "UYGUR EMPIRE" - 740 - 1335 A.D

Founder - Kutlug Bilgekul Khan
Area - Central Asia and Northern Mongolia.

9) The "KARAHAN" - 932 - 1212 A.D

Founder - Saltuk Bugra Han
Area - All the Trans-Oxus area including the area between the Issyk and Balkash Lakes

10) The "GAZNELI EMPIRE" - 962 - 1183 A.D

Founder - Alptekin
Area - The area from the Trans-Oxus to the Ganges River, and from the shores of the Caspian to the steppes of the Pamir. (Total Area - 4,700,000 Km 2)

11) The "SELCUK EMPIRE" - 1040 - 1157 A.D

Founder - Seljuk
Area - At the East, Balkash and Issyk Lakes and the Tarim Derya; At the West, Aegean and the Mediterranean shores; At the North, Aral Lake, Caspian Sea, Caucasian and the Black Sea; At the South, the area including Arabia and the sea Omman. (Total Area - 10,000,000 Km 2)

12) The "HARZEMSHAH" - 1077 - 1231 A.D

Founder - Kudrettin Mehmet (Harzemshah)
Area - Persia, Southern Caucasia, Dagistan, Afghanistan and most of Central Asia. (Total Area - 5,000,000 Km 2)

13) The "GOLDEN HORDE" - 1224 - 1502 A.D

Founder - Batur Han
Area - Eastern Europe, the Western Ural Area, the Crimea and the area to the north of the Volga.

14) The "EMPIRE OF TIMUR KHAN" - 1369 - 1501 A.D

Founder - Timur Gurgani
Area - At the West, Balkans; At the North, Volga shores; At the South, Indian Ocean; At the East, Central Asia;

15) The "EMPIRE OF BABUR" - 1526 - 1858 A.D

Founder - Babur Shah
Area - Afghanistan and India (Total Area - 2,700,000 Km 2)

16) The "OTTOMAN EMPIRE" - 1299 - 1922 A.D

Founder - Osman Bey
Area - Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Arabia, Jordan, Israel, Syria, Iraq, Anatolia, Caucasia, the Crimea, Bessarabia, Romania, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Greece, Cyprus, Hungary, the Sudan,.....and, the Black Sea, the Mediterranean Sea and the Red Sea were for a time - Turkish Lakes. 

BEAT THIS HAHAH

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## Surenas

ARSENAL6 said:


> DOn't be racist
> AFricans had a suprior History as well about same time as the Romans
> Go educate yourself or is that too difficult for you.



Maybe you can name one great invention of those superior African kingdoms/civilizations?


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## Ottoman-Turk

THIS IS ALSO ON THE TURKSIH PRESIDENTIAL SEAL BEFORE PEOPLE SAY ANYTHING I DNT THINK THE PEOPLE WHO DONE THE PRESIDENTIAL SEAL IS DUMB ENOUGH NOT TO RESARCH ENOUGH TO DO IT


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## ARSENAL6

Surenas said:


> Maybe you can name one great invention of those superior African kingdoms/civilizations?


 
THere is a thing called google and books 

Here is a start the Pharos.


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## Ottoman-Turk

ALSO TODAY WE SEE AGAIN THAT TURKEY IS THE STRONGEST MUSLIM COUNTRY


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## Surenas

ARSENAL6 said:


> THere is a thing called google and books
> 
> Here is a start the Pharos.



You talking about the Egyptians? Well, let we see what one of the most respected Egyptologist Zawi Hawass say about this:



> When pressed on the issue by American activists in September 2007, the current Secretary General of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, Dr. Zahi Hawass stated that
> 
> "Tutankhamun was not black, and the portrayal of ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it;" Hawass further observed that "[Ancient] Egyptians are not Arabs and are not Africans despite the fact that Egypt is in Africa."



I'm waiting.


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## yahya07

What an imbecile this Suranas is, denying the great civilizations that Arabs have created from the Spain to Damascus with all their contributions astronomy and world knowledge (btw most of which is lost). Only a retarded racial supremacist could say such things, and I am convinced you are one.

Also it is not logical to compare ancient Persia with something like the Ummayads or Al-Andalus, it's like comparing Vikings with the Soviets. 

Compare Arab civilisations with the Safavids or Qajars and that would be fair. And we know who would win hands down. I wouldn't even put ancient Persia in top 10 really, how could an empire be considered great when it has been conquered by anyone who tried but miserable failed conquering others? 

On the surface "Persia" conjures up images of roses, mystical horses and colourful carpets but in reality it is a mythical dream with no substance, recreated by Iranians for them to gloat and despair at the their current miseries. 



Surenas said:


> You're African?



I am Ethiopian/Somali with some Arab ancestry. So what motherf'ker?


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> I don't have to proof Persians have a greater civilization than the Arabs; history and historians will. Maybe somebody can name me a respected historian who put the Persian empire below or on a same level as the Arabs?



Pics speak of itself:


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## Surenas

Ottoman-Turk said:


> ALSO TODAY WE SEE AGAIN THAT TURKEY IS THE STRONGEST MUSLIM COUNTRY



I would call them one of the most strongest muslim countries. Military they are, but when you're talking about influence in other countries Iran is ahead of Turkey.



BLACKEAGLE said:


> Pics speak of itself:



They are not Arabs. Name one historian who call them Arabs. Even Zawi Hawass say this:



> "Hawass further observed that "[Ancient] Egyptians are not Arabs and are not Africans despite the fact that Egypt is in Africa."



Another fail.


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## Ottoman-Turk

ahahahah i will laugh omgggg iran is ahead of turkey in influence??? HAHAH what is he saying someone? influencing lubnan? lol please i say nothing


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## BLACKEAGLE



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## Desert Fox

ARSENAL6 said:


> DOn't be racist
> AFricans had a suprior History as well about same time as the Romans
> Go educate yourself or is that too difficult for you.


What's so racist about the truth?

What civilization did Africans build? Did they have a written language as the Europeans and Asians did?

What did Native Africans from the continent of Africa invent that is comparable to the Automobile, the Locomotive, the calculator, the refrigerator, the air plane, the Ships, the computers, the light bulb, the telephone, the compass.

Look at Haiti, a Black country that got its independence from France a few decades after the United States got its independence from Britain, yet Haiti still remains in shambles while USA has become a super power.


Still don't believe me? Look at Liberia, a nation where freed American slaves were sent to after the American Civil war, where is Liberia today? Cannibalism, civil war, killing their own and eating little babies and drinking their blood before battle, fighting naked with guns, 85% female population raped.

Still don't believe me? Look at South Africa now, once the only nation in Africa that was making strides, and now look at it, read about the farm murders, the rape, and all of that other crap that has prevailed in that nation.


Listen to what this guy says from 5:02

Her name is "Ms. Ann" - YouTube

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## Ottoman-Turk

people will lauigh at that look at many professors at turkeys influence today they are even saying turkey influences most arab countries , + balkan countries it can influence + azerbaijan + cyprus + turkic states

lol africans were never strong unfortunately they were colonized by nearly all empires


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## BLACKEAGLE



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## Surenas

Ottoman-Turk said:


> ahahahah i will laugh omgggg iran is ahead of turkey in influence??? HAHAH what is he saying someone? influencing lubnan? lol please i say nothing



Lebanon, Syria, Gaza, South America, Afghanistan, Iraq. Every Middle-Eastern expert will state that Iran's influence in those countries is bigger than Turkey's influence.


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## Ottoman-Turk

south america ? what world you in? because iran visited cuba or something do you think they influence them? they influence one third of iraq no country in south america , never seen them influence gaza lol i see turkish flags in gaza not iran , the rest are true , also never seen much influence in afghanistan tbh


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## BLACKEAGLE

Ottoman-Turk said:


> people will lauigh at that look at many professors at turkeys influence today they are even saying turkey influences most arab countries , + balkan countries it can influence + azerbaijan + cyprus + turkic states
> 
> lol africans were never strong unfortunately they were colonized by nearly all empires


Turkey influenced Arab only because it was in the name of Islam not turkey race. but when turkey strayed we kicked it out in 1917.
Arabs are proud themselves of Ottoman empire before 1900.


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## Ottoman-Turk

today other than energy iran cant even be compared to us mate sorry dnt compare altay tank and zulfiqar rust

you kicked us out or you licked britians foot and other parts aswell and licked queens nails?

lol iam nt against iranians dnt get me wrong they are more civilized than arabs , arabs will betray each other if another country gives them 1 more dollar or gold they will do anything for money anything


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## Desert Fox

BLACKEAGLE said:


> *Turkey influenced Arab only because it was in the name of Islam not turkey race. but when turkey strayed we kicked it out in 1917.
> Arabs are proud themselves of Ottoman empire before 1900.*


What did the Turks do that they deserved to be kicked out by Arabs and therefore gave the British Palestine on a platter, where the British then established the state of Israel.


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## Surenas

Ottoman-Turk said:


> south america ? what world you in? because iran visited cuba or something do you think they influence them? they influence one third of iraq no country in south america , never seen them influence gaza lol i see turkish flags in gaza not iran , the rest are true , also never seen much influence in afghanistan tbh



You think Turkey's influence in Gaza and Afghanistan is bigger? Haha, who are you fooling. Iran is paying Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. in Gaza and they are following in most matters Iran's will. Same for Karzai and Afghanistan.



> *Iran's Influence in Latin America*
> 
> The recent loan of $280 million given to Bolivia by the Iranian government serves as another example of Iran&#8217;s growing influence in Latin America. This loan is given to Bolivia in addition to 1.1 billion Euros that Iran pledged in August 2007 to invest in Bolivian agriculture, industry, energy and humanitarian affairs. Many leftists regimes in the Latin America -including Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua, and Ecuador- have developed strong bilateral ties with the Iranian government. This Press TV article details the close relationship enjoyed between Iran and countries in Latin America
> 
> Venezuela
> 
> Since coming to power in 1998, President Hugo Chavez has increased cooperation with Tehran. He has made five official visits to Iran and has publicly stated that he considers the country a model for development. Iran has cemented its relations with Caracas through investment, with bilateral trade currently standing at approximately $2.5 billion. In March 2007, Iranian vehicles were introduced to the Venezuelan market through joint venture Venirauto; energy companies in the two countries have formed a joint venture company, Venezirian Oil.
> Venezuela and Iran have agreed to act jointly in the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC). They are also working together to persuade other oil-producing countries to reduce oil production in order to raise prices and thus promote their economic development. Chavez has welcomed Iran&#8217;s observer membership of the Cuban-Venezuelan alternative to the US-promoted Free Trade Area of the Americas, which further illustrates the growing relationship between Caracas and Tehran.
> 
> Cuba
> 
> Cuba is one of Iran&#8217;s most natural allies in the region. US sanctions have been imposed on both countries as a penalty for their pursuit of independent policies. Cuba has repeatedly defended Iran&#8217;s right to access nuclear energy. In a February 2006 vote at the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Cuba, along with Venezuela and Syria, voted against an unfair resolution, promoted by imperialist and Zionist international circles, to impose sanctions on Iran. Havana and Tehran are now exploring cooperation in the textile, agriculture, and petrochemical industries.
> 
> Nicaragua
> 
> In 1979, the Sandinist revolution in Nicaragua destroyed the incumbent pro-US regime and became a light of hope for Latin America. The revolutions of Nicaragua and Iran soon initiated friendly relations and Nicaraguans found inspiration in the Iranian revolution.
> The victory of Daniel Ortega in the 2006 presidential elections has deepened Iran-Nicaragua relations. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was a guest of honor at Ortega&#8217;s inauguration ceremony in January 2007, where the Iranian president was awarded two state medals. The two leaders signed agreements for bilateral cooperation in 25 sectors including energy, trade, the economy, infrastructure, student exchange, and joint business ventures.
> 
> Brazil &#8211; Mexico &#8211; Ecuador
> 
> In 2004, Brazil and Iran took their first step toward economic and political cooperation by signing a memorandum of understanding for increased communication and commercial exchange. In February 2005, Iran and Mexico signed a memorandum of understanding to promote collaboration in oil, gas and petrochemical sectors. Iranian authorities have already met with officials from Mexico&#8217;s state oil company, Pemex. Iranian-Ecuadorian cultural and commercial cooperation has also increased in recent years and Ecuadorian President Rafael Correa has stated that he wants closer ties with Tehran.



What you're right in is that Turkey have a more positive image in the Arab world and they are military stronger than other muslim countries, but on influence not entirely.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> You're African?


You just use Arab names, dress, and praise Arab leaders and never take fun of any respected civilization.
If you continue of this arrogance I will start threads about Arab-Persian wars...
So, would you like me to start such threads?


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## Desert Fox

BLACKEAGLE said:


> You just use Arab names, dress, and praise Arab leaders and never take fun of any respected civilization.
> If you continue of this arrogance I will start threads about Arab-Persian wars...
> So, would you like me to start such threads?



Why did Arabs betray Turks in WW1? Why did Arabs help British establish Israeli State?


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## yahya07

I never knew we had so many racial supremacists on this forum, but for all those who refuse to acknowledge or appreciate African civilization I hope you read the book the "Destruction of Black Civilization" which is really a groundbreaking book at every level.

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## Surenas

yahya07 said:


> I never knew we had so many racial supremacists on this forum, but for all those who refuse to acknowledge or appreciate African civilization I hope you read the book the "Destruction of Black Civilization" which is really a groundbreaking book at every level.



Which civilizations? Those small irrelevant African kingdoms?


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## Ottoman-Turk

OMG LOL THIS GUYS THINKS WHEN YOU SIGN A MEMORANDUM YOU INFLUENCE A COUNTRY HOW THE HELL CAN IRAN INFLUENCE BRAZIL ??? lol i have nothing to say it says cooperation has increased and he thinks thats increase in influence haha he has no idea of what influence is i never said turkey has more influence in afghanistan or gaza they are so little and non-important but your influence is syria , lebanon if you say south america people will laugh at you mate

arabs please answer questions that are asked now you hate israel?? you helped in establishing it you fools


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## yahya07

Desert Fox said:


> What's so racist about the truth?
> 
> Listen to what this guy says from 5:02
> 
> Her name is "Ms. Ann" - YouTube


 

Pastor Manning LMFAO!! Are you serious you are using some raving lunatic as proof of the "backwardness" of Africans? SMH.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> You think Turkey's influence in Gaza and Afghanistan is bigger? Haha, who are you fooling. Iran is paying Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. in Gaza and they are following in most matters Iran's will. Same for Karzai and Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> 
> What you're right in is that Turkey have a more positive image in the Arab world and they are military stronger than other muslim countries, but on influence not entirely.



Iran's regime is as fungi that feed on the pain of others. Iran would never have influence in Afghanistan or Iraq without the American invasion, and it would never have any influence in Gaza strip nor Lebanon without the destruction those countries due to civil wars or occupation. Turkey have real Muslims men who has morals and wouldn't taking advantage of weak people and countries. Iranian regime doesn't know what the word "moral" means.


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## Desert Fox

yahya07 said:


> I never knew we had so many racial supremacists on this forum, but for all those who refuse to acknowledge or appreciate African civilization I hope you read the book the "Destruction of Black Civilization" which is really a groundbreaking book at every level.



Give me historical reference of any native black African civilization.

Africa is blessed with so many natural resources and so much wealth, yet where is Africa today?

Look at China, they were colonized, they were victims of the opium wars, they were brutally massacred by the Japanese, they faced difficult odds, yet look at China today and look at Africa, and not only Africa but Haiti as well.

I can give you references to Arab Muslims who ventured into Africa and what they described native Africans as, you will forget European racism.


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## Surenas

Desert Fox said:


> Why did Arabs betray Turks in WW1? Why did Arabs help British establish Israeli State?



Yeah, good question. A good movie on this subject is 'Laurence of Arabia' where you clearly see British (and French) support for the Arabs and the betrayal of the Arabs later.



Ottoman-Turk said:


> OMG LOL THIS GUYS THINKS WHEN YOU SIGN A MEMORANDUM YOU INFLUENCE A COUNTRY HOW THE HELL CAN IRAN INFLUENCE BRAZIL ??? lol i have nothing to say it says cooperation has increased and he thinks thats increase in influence haha he has no idea of what influence is i never said turkey has more influence in afghanistan or gaza they are so little and non-important but your influence is syria , lebanon if you say south america people will laugh at you mate



So why US and Israel are worrying for Iran's growing influence in South America? In the Middle-East Iran's influence is really bigger. Why wouldn't you acknowledge that. Turkey have a more positive image in the Arab world, but not more influence.


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## Desert Fox

yahya07 said:


> Pastor Manning LMFAO!! Are you serious you are using some raving lunatic as proof of the "backwardness" of Africans? SMH.



Why, is it because he speaks the truth??? 

Is it not true that your people butcher and eat their own?

Is it not true that native Africans have no civilization of their own comparable to Romans, Persians, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Arabs?

If you don't take his words for real, then here watch this:

The Vice Guide To Travel - Liberia - Part 1 - YouTube


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## BLACKEAGLE

yahya07 said:


> Pastor Manning LMFAO!! Are you serious you are using some raving lunatic as proof of the "backwardness" of Africans? SMH.


Man Arabs beat the crap out of those raciests tens of times in history. Just say Khalid Bin Alwalid to them.


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## Surenas

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Man Arabs beat the crap out of those raciests tens of times in history. Just say Khalid Bin Alwalid to them.



Do you even know of the Arab slavery in Africa? That was much bigger than western slavery.

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## Ottoman-Turk

i never said its less in middle east i said syria , lebanon , and shias in iraq and cnt remember much more you do have more influence undeniable but south america? please you have no influence their you might be increasing cooperation but no influence just weigh turkeys influence countries and irans? see which countries are more important


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## Surenas

Ottoman-Turk said:


> i never said its less in middle east i said syria , lebanon , and shias in iraq and cnt remember much more you do have more influence undeniable but south america? please you have no influence their you might be increasing cooperation but no influence just weigh turkeys influence countries and irans? see which countries are more important



Turkey have more partners in the west. Iran have more influence in the Middle-East. I'm not only saying this, but almost all of the Middle-Eastern expert. But Iran and Turkey are both the naturally leaders of the Middle-East.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> Do you even know of the Arab slavery in Africa? That was much bigger than western slavery.



No, I just know about Persian slavery by Arabs...


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## Desert Fox

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Man Arabs beat the crap out of those raciests tens of times in history. Just say Khalid Bin Alwalid to them.


*
Arab slavery of Black Africans:*

















Arab slave trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ARAB SLAVE TRADE - The Legacy and History of the Arab Slave Trade

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## Surenas

BLACKEAGLE said:


> No, I just know about Persian slavery by Arabs...



You're proud of your barbaric history when it comes on slavery?


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## A1Kaid

Rome, Persia, Ummayad, Abbasid, Ottoman, Byzantine, Mughal, Spanish, Mongol, Soviet Union, US, these are the most of the worlds great empires in history.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Desert Fox said:


> *
> Arab slavery of Black Africans:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab slave trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ARAB SLAVE TRADE - The Legacy and History of the Arab Slave Trade



Thats what I am really ashamed of. But this slavery wasn't in Islam. Western countries enslaved others in the near past and you talk about Arabs before 1500 years?


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## yahya07

Desert Fox said:


> Give me historical reference of any native black African civilization.
> 
> Africa is blessed with so many natural resources and so much wealth, yet where is Africa today?
> 
> Look at China, they were colonized, they were victims of the opium wars, they were brutally massacred by the Japanese, they faced difficult odds, yet look at China today and look at Africa, and not only Africa but Haiti as well.
> 
> I can give you references to Arab Muslims who ventured into Africa and what they described native Africans as, you will forget European racism.



I am not denying Africans may have underachieved, probably so. But we are definitely not the no-doers as we are often depicted in the media or even some academic circles. I've thought about this many times and I must say I was struck by what Sarkozy had to say:



> The African peasant, who for thousands of years has lived according to the seasons, whose life ideal was to be in harmony with nature, only knew the eternal renewal of time ... In this imaginary world, where everything starts over and over again, there is room neither for human endeavour, nor for the idea of progress.



You have to remember Africans were the first human beings, those who went north to the colder region had to innovate to get warm and got their white skins because of lack of sunlight, these people basically were required to think outside the box for them to survice. I think the need of innovation was absent from Africans and they continued to live the same way for thousands of years because there was no need for change, their thinking process was always in cycles and never challenged. I think environment played a large rule, would be interested to hear other opinions. 

ps there is a book called "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies" that goes into depth about this theory, haven't read it yet but will soon.

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## A1Kaid

Guys stop talking about Africans in a thread called Strongest Empires...lol


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## yahya07

Surenas said:


> Turkey have more partners in the west. Iran have more influence in the Middle-East. I'm not only saying this, but almost all of the Middle-Eastern expert. But Iran and Turkey are both the naturally leaders of the Middle-East.



What a ****ing moron. Arabs had contact with Africans for thousands of years and were no slave trade existed until the Europeans rose. Why is this? MOST the "Arab slave trade" was basically hunting down Africans so they could sell to Europeans.

You need to ask yourself, where are the millions of black Africans in Arab countries today living in ghettos? Where did these so called slaves go? Besides a few thousand there are none. They all went to America and Brazil.

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## Desert Fox

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Thats what I am really ashamed of. But this slavery wasn't in Islam. Western countries enslaved others in the near past and you talk about Arabs before 1500 years?



Please don't talk about Western countries, because in Western countries there is no longer any slaver, but in Gulf Arabs countries as well as in Black countries there is still slavery, and that too at the hands of the natives themselves. 

Its funny how people like to blame the White man for all their problems. Most Europeans did not enslave Africans, the British and the French did.

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## BLACKEAGLE

A1Kaid said:


> Guys stop talking about Africans in a thread called Strongest Empires...lol


And who are you to talk in a thread called Strongest Empires?


----------



## The SC

JEskandari said:


> the problem is you think accepting Islam means accepting Arabs . well it's not the case .
> and The name is Islamic Republic of Iran , I don't see any Arab in it .
> we accepted Islam but we kept our tradition ,for example your greatest feast is Eid ul-Fitr but ours is norooz
> your language is Arabic but ours is Persian . and still remain the fact that our science and Art and literature
> was in a coma when we were under Ommayed dynasty but after we made our own Dynasties at the end of
> Ommayed ,you see Iranian Artists , poets and .... show themselves and the golden age of Muslims begin
> 
> about Avesina name lets not enter in a heated discussion his birth place was in Iran , he died in Iran and he
> never left Iran , so where the Idea of he being Arab come from ?
> 
> and about Mesopotamia Civilization they were not Arab after Arab invasion they lost their Culture and become
> Arabs .and for gods sake Egyptian were nor Arab neither Semite and certainly they have no 15000 year history




Who are you?
Read all my posts on this thread and you will have you answer.
There are millions of Arabs living in Iran for thousands of years till now.
You are refuting everything that is Arab and Muslim, I am pretty sure you are not a Muslim and that you are trolling...
You like it or not, Egypt is Arab Mesopotamia was in Arab land, Egypt has more than 15 000 years history and Ibnu Sina was an Arab Whose parents immigrated to Persia as his name indicates Ab&#363; &#703;Al&#299; al-&#7716;usayn ibn &#703;Abd All&#257;h ibn S&#299;n&#257;(does it sound Persian to your ears), do you know where Sina is, its in Egypt between the gulf of suez and the golf of aqaba all Arabian land.
If you were anywhere near to be a Muslim, hearing the word Arab should bring up a good emotion in you as I feel when I hear the word Iranian.

Yale: Art find in Egypt 15,000 years old - Connecticut Post


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## BLACKEAGLE

Desert Fox said:


> Please don't talk about Western countries, because in Western countries there is no longer any slaver, but in Gulf Arabs countries as well as in Black countries there is still slavery, and that too at the hands of the natives themselves.
> 
> Its funny how people like to blame the White man for all their problems. Most Europeans did not enslave Africans, the British and the French did.



they are called maids not slaves you ignorant. You are back to "neglect" list.


----------



## A1Kaid

BLACKEAGLE said:


> And who are you to talk in a thread called Strongest Empires?



I'm a senior member of this forum that's all I have to be in order to discuss the subject at matter.


----------



## The SC

Desert Fox said:


> Please don't talk about Western countries, because in Western countries there is no longer any slaver, but in Gulf Arabs countries as well as in Black countries there is still slavery, and that too at the hands of the natives themselves.
> 
> Its funny how people like to blame the White man for all their problems. Most Europeans did not enslave Africans, the British and the French did.



The Jews were the Businessmen behind slavery for thousands of years.

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## BLACKEAGLE

A1Kaid said:


> I'm a senior member of this forum that's all I have to be in order to discuss the subject at matter.


.............................


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## Desert Fox

yahya07 said:


> I am not denying Africans may have underachieved, probably so. But we are definitely not the no-doers as we are often depicted in the media or even some academic circles. I've thought about this many times and I must say I was struck by what Sarkozy had to say:


So its all a lie that Blacks hunted their own and sold them to the Whites?

Its a lie that Africans ate people of rival tribes once they caught them?

I can go on and on about the barbaric way of living of the native Africans.





yahya07 said:


> You have to remember Africans were the first human beings, those who went north to the colder region had to innovate to get warm and got their white skins because of lack of sunlight, these people basically were required to think outside the box for them to survice. I think the need of innovation was absent from Africans and they continued to live the same way for thousands of years because there was no need for change, their thinking process was always in cycles and never challenged. I think environment played a large rule, would be interested to hear other opinions.
> 
> ps there is a book called "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies" that goes into depth about this theory, haven't read it yet but will soon.


Ok, since Africans are now exposed to "challenges", why have they not developed a strong nation?

Where is Liberia? Is it at the level of China?

Where is Haiti? Is it at the level of Japan (a country that got bombed to the ground, not to mention nuked twice)

Where is Ethiopia? 

Where is Somalia?

This isn't the time of isolation anymore, so how are African nations underdeveloped despite so much outside contact?


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## yahya07

The SC said:


> The Jews were the Businessmen behind slavery for thousands of years.



This is well documented but no one even dares speak it.


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## A1Kaid

BLACKEAGLE said:


> .............................




Though I'm definitely not some Bedouin Arab.


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## Surenas

The SC said:


> The Jews were the Businessmen behind slavery for thousands of years.



Maybe in Europe, but not one Arab slavery. Maybe we can state that slavery is developed by the Semitic people, Arab and Jews.


----------



## Desert Fox

BLACKEAGLE said:


> they are called maids not slaves you ignorant. You are back to "neglect" list.



So you gave it another name therefore its no longer slavery? What a logic!


BTW, Africans enslaving Africans, Blacks enslaving Blacks:


BBC NEWS | Americas | Haiti's hidden 'child slaves'

There's no White scapegoat now.


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

A1Kaid said:


> Though I'm definitely not some Bedouin Arab.


So... you are? what?


----------



## A1Kaid

BLACKEAGLE said:


> So... you are? what?



My flags are there for everyone to see. Not that difficult is it?

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## Roybot

The biggest Empire of South Asia needs a mention.


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## yahya07

Desert Fox said:


> So its all a lie that Blacks hunted their own and sold them to the Whites?
> 
> Its a lie that Africans ate people of rival tribes once they caught them?
> 
> I can go on and on about the barbaric way of living of the native Africans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, since Africans are now exposed to "challenges", why have they not developed a strong nation?
> 
> Where is Liberia? Is it at the level of China?
> 
> Where is Haiti? Is it at the level of Japan (a country that got bombed to the ground, not to mention nuked twice)
> 
> Where is Ethiopia?
> 
> Where is Somalia?
> 
> This isn't the time of isolation anymore, so how are African nations underdeveloped despite so much outside contact?



WTF are you even Pakistani? Why are you consumed with hatred? Can't even talk civilised, ****ing weirdo.

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## The SC

yahya07 said:


> What a ****ing moron. Arabs had contact with Africans for thousands of years and were no slave trade existed until the Europeans rose. Why is this? MOST the "Arab slave trade" was basically hunting down Africans so they could sell to Europeans.
> 
> You need to ask yourself, where are the millions of black Africans in Arab countries today living in ghettos? Where did these so called slaves go? Besides a few thousand there are none. They all went to America and Brazil.



That is how you thank the Muslims who liberated you from Slavery, and put the blame on them for blacks in America and Brasil who were hunted down and put in chains by the Europeans who needed cheap labour for the Americas, They were sold as a commodity by Jews (it was their wall street than) not by the Arabs.


----------



## Roybot

A1Kaid said:


> Please Indians really need to stop fantasizing about this ancient peace loving Buddhist dynasty that managed to expand because there was little to no people around or factions to resist. Mauryan is not considered even in the top 20 strongest empires of history.



 Peace loving? Read up on battle of Kalinga.


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## Desert Fox

yahya07 said:


> WTF are you even Pakistani? Why are you consumed with hatred? Can't even talk civilised, ****ing weirdo.


The last resort of your kind 



yahya07 said:


> Can't even talk *civilised*, ****ing weirdo.



Your telling me i can't talk civilized when you're the one who's resorting to foul language and personal attacks.


So how does it feel like living in a White man's country? Maybe you should go back to African nation from where you cam originally.

Or better yet, go to some Arab country, they will call you "Abeed", they term anyone dark skinned a "Abeed".


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## Roybot

Lol PDF is turning into Stormfront

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## Desert Fox

Roybot said:


> Peace loving? Read up on battle of Kalinga.



To bad Mahmud Ghaznavi destroyed it

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## King Solomon

Looking at Africa, the only parts of Africa which are comparatively advanced today is the North Africa, which was conquered by Islam in early stages. GDP/capita of Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia etc. are higher than most of African nations. Only exception seems to be South Africa, still their GDP/capita is not as high as Libya.

If north Africa wouldn't have been conqered by Islam, they would still be barbarians like the rest of Africa. 

I am almost inclined to say that Africans are genetically inferior. I know there are great africans, so don't take it in a bad way. But they have historically remained barbaric and backward.


----------



## SMC

US will cease to exist after by 2020. Who will be the strongest empire then?


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## yahya07

A1Kaid said:


> Mate we all know Africans are a defeated and self-defeated race they are not capable nor advance and thousands of years of history has proven that. No need to discuss about Africa in a thread called Strongest Empire may be Weakest Civilizations thread but not this one.


 
If this post doesn't constitute blatant ignorance and racism and doesn't get deleted, I'm done with this forum. 

If we are incapable of advancing why do you have a black President?

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## A1Kaid

Roybot said:


> Peace loving? Read up on battle of Kalinga.




So you seriously think Maurya dynasty/empire is one of the "strongest empires" in history? Lol


----------



## Desert Fox

Roybot said:


> Lol PDF is turning into Stormfront



We have threads bashing Pakistan 24/7, mostly posted by indians, you guys never complain then.


----------



## Respect4Respect01

all i know is that roman empire was pretty strong at one point.

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## BLACKEAGLE

A1Kaid said:


> Mate we all know Africans are a defeated and self-defeated race they are not capable nor advance and thousands of years of history has proven that. No need to discuss about Africa in a thread called Strongest Empire may be Weakest Civilizations thread but not this one.
> 
> 
> 
> Please Indians really need to stop fantasizing about this ancient peace loving Buddhist dynasty that managed to expand because there was little to no people around or factions to resist. Mauryan is not considered even in the top 20 strongest empires of history.



This is disgusting.
Never be a racest against respected members here!
REPORTED

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## Roybot

A1Kaid said:


> So you seriously think Maurya dynasty/empire is one of the "strongest empires" in history? Lol



Biggest empire in the sub continent must have had some merit to it. I mean if Mughals can be considered powerful surely Mauryans do too.

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## A1Kaid

yahya07 said:


> A1Kaid said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mate we all know Africans are a defeated and self-defeated race they are not capable nor advance and thousands of years of history has proven that. No need to discuss about Africa in a thread called Strongest Empire may be Weakest Civilizations thread but not this one.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> If this post doesn't constitute blatant ignorance and racism and doesn't get deleted, I'm done with this forum.
> 
> If we are incapable of advancing why do you have a *black President?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In stead of labeling my post as "blatant ignorance" and "racism" just debunk my point or thesis, debunk
> It with facts support your counter argument.
> 
> Also, I can't believe you brought up Pres. Obama a man who is half-white and half-black born to a white mother raised by a white family, given a white upbringing, went to Harvard, had the help of white people and white corporate elites to become President. Great argument... That sure proves thousands of years of African history wasn't backwards or stagnant.
Click to expand...

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## Roybot

Desert Fox said:


> We have threads bashing Pakistan 24/7, mostly posted by indians, you guys never complain then.



We do? Looks like I have missed out then. Your racist remarks are uncalled for and unprovoked.


----------



## Desert Fox

yahya07 said:


> If we are incapable of advancing why do you have a black President?


He's half White, don't forget.

Secondly, i don't hate Blacks as you are saying, i'm merely pointing out facts, which you refuse to rebute because you have no rebuttal.

If you don't want to take my words for it then look up the slave trade yourselves, i'm sure you are not that ignorant to know that *Africans sold Africans to the Whites and the Arabs*.

Its a fact, and so are the other things i pointed out.


----------



## King Solomon

Not all of Africa is backward and barbaric. the Nothr African countries which were conquered by Islam in early stages, like Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria are pretty advanced economically and have GDP/capita (PPP) of around 10-12,000 region.


----------



## Roybot

Desert Fox said:


> To bad Mahmud Ghaznavi destroyed it



Wa? Mahmud Ghazni in 265 BC. You feeling alright mate?


----------



## yahya07

Desert Fox said:


> He's half White, don't forget.
> 
> Secondly, i don't hate Blacks as you are saying, i'm merely pointing out facts, which you refuse to rebute because you have no rebuttal.
> 
> If you don't want to take my words for it then look up the slave trade yourselves, i'm sure you are not that ignorant to know that *Africans sold Africans to the Whites and the Arabs*.
> 
> Its a fact, and so are the other things i pointed out.



What the **** does it matter if Africans sold Africans to whites? Whites been selling whites for thousands years, that how they coined the word "slavery".

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## A1Kaid

BLACKEAGLE said:


> This is disgusting.
> Never be a *race*st against respected members here!
> REPORTED



Go and cry may be the sand below you will absorb your tears. You sound like a Zionist countering people's argument with "you're an anti-Semite!" because you can't face the truth, reality, and history.


----------



## Mosamania

Desert Fox said:


> He's half White, don't forget.
> 
> Secondly, i don't hate Blacks as you are saying, i'm merely pointing out facts, which you refuse to rebute because you have no rebuttal.
> 
> If you don't want to take my words for it then look up the slave trade yourselves, i'm sure you are not that ignorant to know that *Africans sold Africans to the Whites and the Arabs*.
> 
> Its a fact, and so are the other things i pointed out.



Are you so racist that you don't even realize when you are offending people??

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## Birbal

yahya07 said:


> If this post doesn't constitute blatant ignorance and racism and doesn't get deleted, I'm done with this forum.
> 
> If we are incapable of advancing why do you have a black President?



A1Kaid and Desert Fox are NAZI supporters and extreme racists. I can't believe they haven't been permanently banned yet.

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## A1Kaid

S-19 said:


> Not all of Africa is backward and barbaric. the Nothr African countries which were conquered by Islam in early stages, like Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria are pretty advanced economically and have GDP/capita (PPP) of around 10-12,000 region.




Yeah that is the historical exception and most of us here understand that. Though those lands may be in continental Africa, the people or civilization and race wasn't African/Negroid it was mostly Semitic Arabs and under the Ummayad and Abbasid and eventually Fatimid empires this region prospered.


PS not to mention under Roman Empire.


----------



## Mosamania

Birbal said:


> This guy is extremely racist and should be banned for good.



That's what I have been saying for a while now. Him and his entire passe have the same thoughts if you haven't noticed.


----------



## The SC

Desert Fox said:


> *
> Arab slavery of Black Africans:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab slave trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ARAB SLAVE TRADE - The Legacy and History of the Arab Slave Trade




History of slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Surenas

S-19 said:


> Not all of Africa is backward and barbaric. the Nothr African countries which were conquered by Islam in early stages, like Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria are pretty advanced economically and have GDP/capita (PPP) of around 10-12,000 region.



Not entirely true. Those North-African countries had also civilizations before the Islam came by.

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## King Solomon

A1Kaid said:


> Yeah that is the historical exception and most of us here understand that. Though those lands may be in continental Africa, the people or civilization and race wasn't African/Negroid it was mostly Semitic Arabs and under the Ummayad and Abbasid and eventually Fatimid empires this region prospered.
> 
> 
> PS not to mention under Roman Empire.



Yeah, and the most shocking fact is that those North African nations are mostly just barren desert if you look at a satellite map, yet they are relatively better. Whereas, the central and South African nations are "green" with arable land and have abundance of all sorts of natural resources, yet ramain backward and barbaric for the most part.

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## Surenas

The SC said:


> History of slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Look on the first empire who banned slavery first.

Abolition of slavery timeline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Desert Fox

A1Kaid said:


> yahya07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In stead of labeling my post as "blatant ignorance" and "racism" just debunk my point or thesis, debunk
> It with facts support your counter argument.
> 
> Also, I can't believe you brought up Pres. Obama a man who is half-white and half-black born to a white mother raised by a white family, given a white upbringing, went to Harvard, had the help of white people and white corporate elites to become Presidet. Great argument... That sure proves thousands of years of African history wasn't backwards or stagnant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what i don't get, you give them simple facts in front of their eyes and they refuse to believe the truth.
> 
> *Ok, just to make Yahya happy*
> 
> Christopher Columbus was a Ethiopian who discovered the Americas.
> 
> Benjamin Franklin was a Black African who was one of the founding fathers of America
> 
> Thomas Edison was a Black African who invented the light bulb and the Telephone.
> 
> The Wright Brothers were Black Africans who invented the Airplane
> 
> African invented the automobile
> 
> The Romans were Africans
> 
> Africans invented the compass
> 
> Africans invented the steam engine
> 
> Africans invented the locomotive
> 
> African invented the computer
> 
> 
> While Whites are barbaric people who eat their own, sell their own into slavery, and blame the poor Blacks for their problems, yet they go to African countries to enjoy lavish lifestyle.
Click to expand...


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

A1Kaid said:


> Go and cry may be the sand below you will absorb your tears. You sound like a Zionist countering people's argument with "you're an anti-Semite!" because you can't face the truth, reality, and history.



I mean your really disgusting, how could you have "white complex" while your not white, and humiliating Africans and telling them not to write here because the title says "strogest emperors". Pakistan is not among them so GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS THREAD YOURSELF you racist.

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## breeze

Hannibal was an African (negroid) and he at one point conquered Spain.


----------



## Birbal

S-19 said:


> Yeah, and the most shocking fact is that those North African nations are mostly just barren desert if you look at a satellite map, yet they are relatively better. Whereas, the central and South African nations are "green" with arable land and have abundance of all sorts of natural resources, yet ramain backward and barbaric for the most part.



That's cause those were the places with resources (before oil became popular), and thus were heavily exploited by the colonial powers (and continue to be exploited, this time with puppet governments and CIA interference). Just look what happened to people like Thomas Sankara.


----------



## breeze

Nubia was also a great African (negroid) civilization/empire.


----------



## A1Kaid

S-19 said:


> Yeah, and the most shocking fact is that those North African nations are mostly just barren desert if you look at a satellite map, yet they are relatively better. Whereas, the central and South African nations are "green" with arable land and have abundance of all sorts of natural resources, yet ramain backward and barbaric for the most part.




Excellent point, even with environmental advantage the race in question failed to develope. This should be mentioned in textbooks.


----------



## Surenas

breeze said:


> Hannibal was an African (negroid) and he at one point conquered Spain.



Hannibal probably was of Phoenician descent. You know that Cartage was build by the Phoenicians (modern Lebanese)? Does this man look African:

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## darkinsky

Ottoman-Turk said:


> ALSO TODAY WE SEE AGAIN THAT TURKEY IS THE STRONGEST MUSLIM COUNTRY



baseless, why do you claim such a thing?? if you want to compare,compare with europe which you so eagerly want to join


----------



## Mosamania

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I mean your really disgusting, how could you have "white complex" while your not white, and humiliating Africans and telling them not to write here because the title says "strogest emperors". Pakistan is not among them so GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS THREAD YOURSELF you racist.



Are you really surprised that his type of people are Racist?? Of course they are their entire mentality is extremely racist and twisted so much it is extremely pathetic. You say you are a Muslim yet color to you is a bench mark of people's worth. You say you are a Muslim yet you generalize by Races is it a surprise??? No not at all because we all know how people like you are. No different that any hate group out there.

We are suppose to be Muslims no race no color no nothing our faith brings us together if not then at least our humanities.

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## A1Kaid

breeze said:


> Hannibal was an African (negroid) and he at one point conquered Spain.



Hannibal was Phoenician, please don't distort history and please delete or edit your post.


----------



## Desert Fox

breeze said:


> Hannibal was an African (negroid) and he at one point conquered Spain.


AFAIK he was a Berber from North Africa (Tunisia) because during those times the darker the skin meant lower place in soceity.

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## yahya07

S-19 said:


> Yeah, and the most shocking fact is that those North African nations are mostly just barren desert if you look at a satellite map, yet they are relatively better. Whereas, the central and South African nations are "green" with arable land and have abundance of all sorts of natural resources, yet ramain backward and barbaric for the most part.



The problem of some of these countries is that they have leaders propped up by the West that are just no interested in the well being of their citizens. However, the notion that there are no African successful stories is just an outdated myth. Look at Botswana, Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, Rwanda these are all countries that have double digit growth rates for the past decade. This massive development is unfolding right under our eyes and morons like you refuse to let go of colonial attitudes and see that things are changing in Africa. This is especially disappointing as you are Chinese and ignorant of the colossal resources and infrastructure building your country is putting into Africa.

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## breeze

Surenas said:


> Hannibal probably was of Phoenician descent. You know that Cartage was build by the Phoenicians (modern Lebanese)? Does this man look African:



Whites throughout history have been stealing the glories of other civilization as their own. They even claim the Huns were white (caucasion) even though they are Asians, East Asians to be exact.


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## Surenas

Arabs who other people accuse or blame of racism? Isn't that funny. At least Pakistanis and Iranians aren't treating Africans or other people like animals, while Arab countries/people around the Persian Gulf do.

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## Desert Fox

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I mean your really disgusting, how could you have "white complex" while your not white, and humiliating Africans and telling them not to write here because the title says "strogest emperors". Pakistan is not among them so GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS THREAD YOURSELF you racist.



Of course we are not White, who said we are White?

We are just stating facts.


BTW, how they treat Blacks in Arab countries:


Arab Racism against Black People in Iraq - YouTube

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## Surenas

breeze said:


> Whites throughout history have been stealing the glories of other civilization as their own. They even claim the Huns were white (caucasion) even though they are Asians, East Asians to be exact.



You want to deny that Carthage was build by Phoenicians?


----------



## Desert Fox

Arabs, the most tolerant of Blacks, but then why do Arabs treat Blacks like they are animals??

Mass Murder of Blacks in Libya - YouTube


----------



## A1Kaid

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I mean your really disgusting, how could you have "white complex" while your not white, and humiliating Africans and telling them not to write here because the title says "strogest emperors". Pakistan is not among them so GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS THREAD YOURSELF you racist.



Pakistan can be considered a successor of the Mughal Empire, Pakistan being the Muslim homeland of So Asia it holds the legacy of the Muslim Mughal Empire, hence I mentioned Mughals in my first post in the thread.

Even British historians agree Mughal empire was definitely one of the worlds strongest empires both militarily and economically.

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## BLACKEAGLE

Mosamania said:


> Are you really surprised that his type of people are Racist?? Of course they are their entire mentality is extremely racist and twisted so much it is extremely pathetic. You say you are a Muslim yet color to you is a bench mark of people's worth. You say you are a Muslim yet you generalize by Races is it a surprise??? No not at all because we all know how people like you are. No different that any hate group out there.
> 
> We are suppose to be Muslims no race no color no nothing our faith brings us together if not then at least our humanities.


I agree 100%, I had a logical respected discussions with Iranians, I was compelled to be Pan-Arab to defend Arabs from those racist members. But inside me, I am a Muslim more than an Arab. But this person is unbelievably color-racist although he is not a white himself. So, imagine how much disgusting he is.

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## Desert Fox

Libyan rebel ethnic cleansing and lynching of black people-Human Rights Investigations


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## Surenas

The Mughal empire is indeed a fascinating empire.

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## Birbal

Speaking about African empires in general, like the Americas and Pacific Islands, Africa was cut off from the warfare and trade routes that stretched from central Europe to China for thousands of years and allowed for the massive exchange of ideas and technology that allowed Eurasia in general to develop so much scientifically.

Nevertheless, some of the North African places which were in contact with Eurasia, such as the Ancient Egyptians and the Moors achieved impressive scientific and cultural accomplishments.

In addition, Africa has had several major kingdoms in various regions. One of the most notable is the Abyssinian empire, which lasted for several centuries, decisively defeating an Italian invasion in the Battle of Adwa as recently as 1896.

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## Mosamania

Desert Fox said:


> Of course we are not White, who said we are White?
> 
> We are just stating facts.
> 
> 
> BTW, how they treat Blacks in Arab countries:
> 
> 
> Arab Racism against Black People in Iraq - YouTube



The Captain of the Saudi National Football team:





Serving in the army:





Officers and high ranking officials:

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## scholseys

Kerma civilization is one of the oldest and it is black.

Kerma - Black Africa's Oldest Civilisation


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

A1Kaid said:


> Pakistan can be considered a successor of the Mughal Empire, Pakistan being the Muslim homeland of So Asia it holds the legacy of the Muslim Mughal Empire, hence I mentioned Mughals in my first post in the thread.
> 
> Even British historians agree Mughal empire was definitely one of the worlds strongest empires both militarily and economically.



Oh right...


----------



## IbnAlwaled

Surenas said:


> Hannibal probably was of Phoenician descent. You know that Cartage was build by the Phoenicians (modern Lebanese)? Does this man look African:



If your going to copy stuff from Wikipedia then try to be accurate at least.
"Hannibal, son of Hamilcar Barca was a *Punic* Carthaginian military commander and tactician"
"The Punics (from Latin p&#363;nicus) were a group of western Semitic-speaking peoples from Carthage in North Africa who traced their origins to a group of Phoenician settlers, but also to *North African Berbers*. Punics were probably a *mix of Berbers and Phoenicians* in terms of culture and ancestry"

The picture you took from Wikipedia had this to say:
"some historians are uncertain of the authenticity of the portrait"
Moreover, Europeans have always had eurocentric view of everyone and everything. So of course they would portray their conquerors as European.
Fail.

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## Desert Fox

Libyan rebels cage black Africans in zoo, force feed them flags (SHOCK VIDEO)


----------



## A1Kaid

Basically guys the counter argument is by a few members...

I can't prove you wrong so you're racist. 


They have no substance to their argument.

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## The SC

Surenas said:


> Look on the first empire who banned slavery first.
> 
> Abolition of slavery timeline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Slavery in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Islamic views on slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Mosamania

A1Kaid said:


> Basically guys the counter argument is by a few members...
> 
> I can't prove you wrong so you're racist.
> 
> 
> They have no substance to their argument.



You don't get it do you??? Haahahaha.

The mere fact that you are debating on the basis of race is racist.

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## Surenas

Mosamania said:


> The Captain of the Saudi National Football team:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Serving in the army:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Officers and high ranking officials:



Yeah, they are only good for sport and worth of dying for your Arabs.


----------



## Roybot

Iranian agents trying to drive a wedge between Arabs and Africans. Cool game bros

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## King Solomon

Mosamania said:


> You don't get it do you??? Haahahaha.
> 
> The mere fact that you are debating on the basis of race is racist.



Can yo deny that central and south Africa, for the most part, have failed to produce any notable civilization in the past as well as present?


----------



## Surenas

The SC said:


> Slavery in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Islamic views on slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



From the first Wikipedia-link. Here you go:



> In general, mass slavery as a whole has never been practiced by Persians, and in many cases the situation and lives of semi-slaves (prisoners of war) were, in fact, better than those of the commoner.
> 
> Slavery was an existing institution in Egypt, Media and Babylonia before the rise of the Achaemenid empire.
> 
> On the whole, in the Achaemenid empire, there was only small number of slaves in relation to the number of free persons and moreover the word used to call a slave was utilized also to express general dependence. Usually, captives were prisoners of war that were recruited from those that rebelled against Achaemenid rule.


----------



## Mosamania

Roybot said:


> Iranian agents trying to drive a wedge between Arabs and Africans. Cool game bros



But they only managed to bring us closer together  

Islam will win above the nose of the haters.

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## Birbal

yahya07 said:


> The problem of some of these countries is that they have leaders propped up by the West that are just no interested in the well being of their citizens. However, the notion that there are no African successful stories is just an outdated myth. Look at Botswana, Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, Rwanda these are all countries that have double digit growth rates for the past decade. This massive development is unfolding right under our eyes and morons like you refuse to let go of colonial attitudes and see that things are changing in Africa. This is especially disappointing as you are Chinese and ignorant of the colossal resources and infrastructure building your country is putting into Africa.



And the leaders who are interested in the well being of their citizens are overthrown and killed by the CIA and other Western agencies (like Nkrumah, Lumumba, Sankara, Cabral, and recently Gaddafi).


----------



## yahya07

A1Kaid said:


> Basically guys the counter argument is by a few members...
> 
> I can't prove you wrong so you're racist.
> 
> 
> They have no substance to their argument.



lmao are you denying your a racist? you live up to that word in every sense of it.

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## A1Kaid

We're not talking about oldest, newest, biggest, we are discussing strongest empires of history. Naturally, people of defeated races/ethnic groups/people hate this subject and if they are so offended should leave and let those who can discuss this subject without emotions discuss it at peace.



By the way, some of the Chinese Dynasties were also very formidable and advance. AFAIK the Ming Dynasty was one of the greater and more powerful dynasties.

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## Surenas

The only real African slaves who where brought to Iran, were brought by the Portuguese.

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## Mosamania

S-19 said:


> Can yo deny that central and south Africa, for the most part, have failed to produce any notable civilization in the past?



They have produced great Civilizations in the past. The Kingdom of Mali. The Civilization of Zulu. The Christian Kingdom of Habasha who the prophet ordered Muslims to migrate to, to escape Meccan torture. Or all those didn't cross your mind??

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## Desert Fox

Roybot said:


> Iranian agents trying to drive a wedge between Arabs and Africans. Cool game bros


"Iranians Agents"?

Since when did you bash Iranians? I remember a few months ago you and your compatriots were kissing up to Iranians in another thread, so now its Saudis turn?

Not surprised at all


----------



## IbnAlwaled

Surenas said:


> Yeah, they are only good for sport and worth of dying for your Arabs.


The imam of the holiest place in the Muslim world is a Black man: Adel Al Kalbani

Adel Al Kalbani ???? ????????
We don't have these racial insecurities that you so called"Aryans" have.

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## Maira La

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Oh right...



Interesting. ^^Seems the Mughal guys drew the eastern boundary of today's BD. Those farsighted guys.


----------



## yahya07

Just look at Equatorial Guinea, this African country has GDP per capita higher than any other African or Asian (excluding ROK, Japan) country yet its people live in abject poverty. The reason? Most it's oil goes to the United States.

Teodorin's World

Obiang's palace building spree

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## Birbal

S-19 said:


> Can yo deny that central and south Africa, for the most part, have failed to produce *any notable* civilization in the past as well as present?



Goes without saying that ancient Eurasian travelers had never been to Africa and thus never noted any civilizations in Central or South Africa. That doesn't mean there weren't any civilizations there. There is plenty of archeological evidence of major civilizations South of the Sahara, but they just haven't gotten much attention from European scholars.


----------



## The SC

Surenas said:


> From the first Wikipedia-link. Here you go:



Please, let people read the hole article, would you!


----------



## Roybot

Desert Fox said:


> "Iranians Agents"?
> 
> Since when did you bash Iranians? I remember a few months ago you and your compatriots were kissing up to Iranians in another thread, so now its Saudis turn?
> 
> Not surprised at all



I don't bash Iranians, I bash every bs artist, no matter what country he is from. You guys talk like Persians never enlaved anyone

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## Mosamania

IbnAlwaled said:


> The imam of the holiest place in the Muslim world is a Black man: Adel Al Kalbani
> 
> Adel Al Kalbani ???? ????????
> We don't have these racial insecurities that you so called"Aryans" have.



Maybe these guys will rise in anger how could the Arabs allow a black man to be the Imam of Haram???   

The thing is they are trying to pain us saudis with the brush of racism hahahaha

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## A1Kaid

The second of two "super powers" of the last century. We should discuss the Soviet Union, and drop the current despicable topic.

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## Surenas

A1Kaid said:


> By the way, some of the Chinese Dynasties were also very formidable and advance. AFAIK the Ming Dynasty was one of the greater and more powerful dynasties.



Yeah, the Chinese had great civilizations. One of the most fascinating Chinese Admiral was Zheng He. His fleet was far superior to the European ones:






See the difference between the Chinese ship and the European one. I have also Sun Tzu's 'Art of war' in my book closet.

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## A1Kaid

apo_Asura said:


> Interesting. ^^Seems the Mughal guys drew the eastern boundary of today's BD. Those farsighted guys.




Lol, good observation I wasn't even going to bother with that guy.


----------



## Desert Fox

*The Arab Muslim Slave Trade Of Africans, The Untold Story*

Muslim Slavery Still Exists!!! - YouTube

The Arab Muslim Slave Trade Of Africans, The Untold Story - YouTube


----------



## IbnAlwaled

Surenas said:


> In general, mass slavery as a whole has never been practiced by Persians, and in many cases the situation and lives of semi-slaves (prisoners of war) were, in fact, better than those of the commoner.
> 
> Slavery was an existing institution in Egypt, Media and Babylonia before the rise of the Achaemenid empire.
> 
> On the whole, in the Achaemenid empire, there was only small number of slaves in relation to the number of free persons and moreover the word used to call a slave was utilized also to express general dependence. Usually, captives were prisoners of war that were recruited from those that rebelled against Achaemenid rule.



Ya you didn't practice slavery. You Kill ALL war prisoners, while we Arabs enslaved them or sat them free. The ones that were enslave a lot of them were set free later. Also, we didn't enslave people by their skin color, we enslaved Europeans, blacks, and Persians(remember your princess Shahrbanu)

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## darkinsky

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Oh right...



after expansion, this was mughal empire


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## A1Kaid

Surenas said:


> Yeah, the Chinese had great civilizations. One of the most fascinating Chinese Admiral was Zheng He. His fleet was far superior to the European ones:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have also Sun Tzu's 'Art of war' in my book closet.




The Chinese really developed a highly intelligent civilization and marvelous cities. Their sophisticated writing and language, inventions, exploration, medicines, cartography, mathematics, all very productive. The Muslim world and Chinese civilization and others had the great Silk route.


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## yahya07

BLACKEAGLE said:


> My Arab brothers. I have just put Desert Fox in "neglect" list. plz neglect him because he is a troller and doesn't represent Pakistani here. His loyalty is for Khomeini, so you would see him everywhere defending Iran and offending Arabs and Muslims.



Thanks, I will do the same. Will do the same to A1Kalid and that Aryan racial supramacist.

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## Surenas

IbnAlwaled said:


> Ya you didn't practice slavery. You Kill ALL war prisoners, while we Arabs enslaved them or sat them free. The ones that were enslave a lot of them were set free later. Also, we didn't enslave people by their skin color, we enslaved Europeans, blacks, and Persians(remember your princess Shahrbanu)



If we killed all war prisoners so why Cyrus the Great didn't kill Crousus when he defeated and captured him? So why we captured a entire Roman legionary and brought them to Persia where they helped to build some bridges? Do you have sources for your bizarre claim? We never had slaves like you guys and I'm proud of that.


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## Cloakedvessel

Desert Fox said:


> *The Arab Muslim Slave Trade Of Africans, The Untold Story*
> 
> Muslim Slavery Still Exists!!! - YouTube
> 
> The Arab Muslim Slave Trade Of Africans, The Untold Story - YouTube


 
Pakistan&#39;s Sex Slaves - YouTube

So, what's your excuse?

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## RayKalm

I wouldn't say Ottoman was the 2nd strongest, the Syrian and Bagdad empire were longer and stronger.

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## BLACKEAGLE

IbnAlwaled said:


> Ya you didn't practice slavery. You Kill ALL war prisoners, while we Arabs enslaved them or sat them free. The ones that were enslave a lot of them were set free later. Also, we didn't enslave people by their skin color, we enslaved Europeans, blacks, and Persians(remember your princess Shahrbanu)



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## A1Kaid

At Surenas


You know what another great indicator of a great empire or civilization is, their food and cuisine!

Advance civilizations and empires also learned and developed better and advance cooking, and developed great rich cuisine and food culture.

The Chinese, Pakistanis, Greeks, Persians, Italians, Spanyards, Japanese, Turks, various Europeans, and various Asians, created great cuisine. Not sure what some people on some other continent created.


PS In the ancient world Rome was known not only for its empire but it's great cuisine tradition.

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## King Solomon

Lets discuss what the Quran says about "Strongest Empire", shall we?

According to the Quran, the empire of Prophet SOlomon (PBUH) - The Kingdom of Israel, was the most powerful, both militarily and economically.

According to the Quran, the empire of Dhul Qarnain (PBUH) was militarily, the most powerful force at that time and had dominance in the east and west

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## Desert Fox

Ahmed Shah Durrani Empire:


















Reign of Ahmad Shah (1747-1772)


In 1747 Ahmad Shah and his Abdali horsemen joined the chiefs of the Abdali tribes and clans near Kandahar to choose a leader. Despite being younger than other claimants, Ahmad had several overriding factors in his favor. He was a direct descendant of Sado, eponym of the Sadozai; he was unquestionably a charismatic leader and seasoned warrior who had at his disposal a trained, mobile force of several thousand cavalrymen; and he possessed part of Nadir Shah's treasury.

One of Ahmad Shah's first acts as chief was to adopt the title "Durr-i-Durrani" ("pearl of pearls" or "pearl of the age"), which may have come from a dream or from the pearl earrings worn by the royal guard of Nadir Shah. The Abdali Pashtuns were known thereafter as the Durrani.

Ahmad Shah began by capturing Ghazni from the Ghilzai Pashtuns, and then wresting Kabul from the local ruler. In 1749 the Mughal ruler ceded sovereignty over Sindh Province and the areas of northern India west of the Indus River to Ahmad Shah in order to save his capital from Afghan attack. Ahmad Shah then set out westward to take possession of Herat, which was ruled by Nadir Shah's grandson, Shah Rukh. Herat fell to Ahmad after almost a year of siege and bloody conflict, as did Mashhad (in present-day Iran). Ahmad next sent an army to subdue the areas north of the Hindu Kush. In short order, the powerful army brought under its control the Turkmen, Uzbek, Tajik, and Hazara tribes of northern Afghanistan. Ahmad invaded India a third, then a fourth, time, taking control of the Punjab, Kashmir, and the city of Lahore. Early in 1757, he sacked Delhi, but permitted the Mughal Dynasty to remain in nominal control as long as the ruler acknowledged Ahmad's suzerainty over the Punjab, Sindh, and Kashmir. Leaving his second son Timur Shah in charge, Ahmad left India to return to Afghanistan.

Coranation of Ahmad Shah Baba The collapse of Mughal control in India, however, also facilitated the rise of rulers other than Ahmad Shah. In the Punjab, the Sikhs were becoming a potent force. From their capital at Pune, the Marathas, Hindus who controlled much of western and central India, were beginning to look northward to the decaying Mughal empire, which Ahmad Shah now claimed by conquest. Upon his return to Kandahar in 1757, Ahmad faced Maratha attacks which succeeded in ousting Timur and his court in India.



Ahmad Shah declared an Islamic holy war against the Marathas, and warriors from various Pashtun tribes, as well as other tribes such as the Baloch, answered his call. Early skirmishes ended in victory for the Afghans, and by 1759 Ahmad and his army had reached Lahore. By 1760 the Maratha groups had coalesced into a great army. Once again Panipat was the scene of a confrontation between two warring contenders for control of northern India. The Battle of Panipat in 1761 between Muslim and Hindu armies who numbered as many as 100,000 troops each was fought along a twelve-kilometer front. Despite decisively defeating the Marathas, what might have been Ahmad Shah's peaceful control of his domains was disrupted by other challenges.

The victory at Panipat was the high point of Ahmad Shah's--and Afghan--power. His Durrani Empire was one of the largest Islamic empires in the world at that time, perhaps second after the Ottoman Empire. Afterward, even prior to his death, the empire began to unravel. By the end of 1761, the Sikhs had gained power and taken control of much of the Punjab. In 1762 Ahmad Shah crossed the passes from Afghanistan for the sixth time to subdue the Sikhs. He assaulted Lahore and, after taking their holy city of Amritsar, Tomb of Ahmad Shah Baba in Kandaharmassacred thousands of Sikh inhabitants, destroying their temples and desecrating their holy places with cow's blood. Within two years the Sikhs rebelled again. Ahmad Shah tried several more times to subjugate the Sikhs permanently, but failed. By the time of his death, he had lost all but nominal control of the Punjab to the Sikhs, who remained in charge of the area until defeated by the British in the First Anglo-Sikh War in 1846.

Ahmad Shah also faced other rebellions in the north, and eventually he and the amir of Bukhara agreed that the Amu Darya would mark the division of their lands. In 1772 Ahmad Shah retired to his home in the mountains east of Kandahar, where he died. Ahmad Shah had succeeded to a remarkable degree in balancing tribal alliances and hostilities and in directing tribal energies away from rebellion. He earned recognition as Ahmad Shah Baba, or "Father" of Afghanistan.



By the time of Ahmad Shah's ascendancy, the Pashtuns included many groups whose origins were obscure; most were believed to have descended from ancient Aryan tribes, but some, such as the Ghilzai, may have once been Turks. They had in common, however, their Pashtu language. To the east, the Waziris and their close relatives, the Mahsuds, had lived in the hills of the central Suleiman Range since the fourteenth century. By the end of the sixteenth century and the final Turkish-Mongol invasions, tribes such as the Shinwaris, Yusufzais, and Momands had moved from the upper Kabul River valley into the valleys and plains west, north, and northeast of Peshawar. The Afridis had long been established in the hills and mountain ranges south of the Khyber Pass. By the end of the eighteenth century, the Durranis had blanketed the area west and north of Kandahar.


Afghanistan Empire of 1772

Summary



Abdali Durrani is the First King of Afghanistan and founder of the Sadozay dynasty of the Abdali tribe. In October 1747 elected King (Shah) of Afghanistan by an assembly of Pashtun chiefs the new leader of the Afghans changed his title from khan (chief) to shah (king in Persian) and assumed the name Durrani (Pearl of Pearls). Immediately he began to consolidate and enlarge his kingdom. He seized Kabul. He wrested from the Moghuls their territories west of the Indus. The Pashtun tribesmen rallied to his banner, and Ahmad Shah Baba Baba led them on nine campaigns into India in search of booty and territorial conquest. He added Kashmir, Sind, and the Western Punjab to his domains and founded an empire, which extended from eastern Persia to northern India and from the Amu Darya to the Indian Ocean. In 1756 he occupied Delhi and carried off as much wealth as possible, thereby enriching his treasury. By 1761, his kingdom was larger than present Afghanistan.

He led a contingent of his tribesmen in the service of Nadir Shah, king of Persia, who won control of most of Afghanistan and part of India. When Nadir died, Ahmad founded an independent Afghan kingdom. He invaded the Indian Punjab six times between 1748 and 1752, and he seized and sacked Delhi. In 1761 he defeated an Indian army at Panipat, India. Although he was a powerful military leader, Ahmad never intended in permanently ruling India; he subsequently withdrew into Afghanistan.

Ahmad Shah Baba was an outstanding general and a just ruler. He governed with the help of a council of chiefs, each responsible for his own people. Thus all matters of national issues were centralized, but each chief ruled his own tribe. This kind of arrangement won the support of the people, and was prevailing political pattern in Afghanistan until the monarchy ended in 1973. Ahmad Shah Baba Baba's vast realm soon broke apart. Afghans were better fighters than administrators.

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## Surenas

IbnAlwaled said:


> Ya you didn't practice slavery. You Kill ALL war prisoners, while we Arabs enslaved them or sat them free. The ones that were enslave a lot of them were set free later. Also, we didn't enslave people by their skin color, we enslaved Europeans, blacks, and Persians(remember your princess Shahrbanu)



There weren't that much of Persian slaves in Arabia. And the legend on Shahrbanu is being questioned by some historians. You just remember Babak Khorramdin. He killed 10 Arabs for every Iranian that was killed.



A1Kaid said:


> At Surenas
> 
> 
> You know what another great indicator of a great empire or civilization is, their food and cuisine!
> 
> Advance civilizations and empires also learned and developed better and advance cooking, and developed great rich cuisine and food culture.
> 
> The Chinese, Pakistanis, Greeks, Persians, Italians, Spanyards, Japanese, Turks, various Europeans, and various Asians, created great cuisine. Not sure what some people on some other continent created.
> 
> 
> PS In the ancient world Rome was known not only for its empire but it's great cuisine tradition.



You're right. The food/cuisine in those countries/empires are far superior to the other countries.


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## Desert Fox

*Sher Shah Suri*












Sher Shah "Suri" and the Afghan Revival

Babur's victories at Panipat and Gorga did not result in the complete annihilation of the Afghan chiefs. They were seething with discontent against the newly founded alien rule, and only needed the guidance of one strong personality to coalesce their isolated efforts in to an organized national resistance against it. This they got in Sher Khan Sur, who effected the revival of the Afghan power and established a glorious, though short lived, regime in India by ousting the newly established Mughul authority.

The career of Sher Khan Sur, the hero of Indo-Muslim revival, is as fascinating as that of Babur and not less instructive than that of the great Mughul, Akbar. Originally bearing the name of Farid, he began his life in a humble way, and, like many other great men in history, had to pass through various trials and vicissitudes of fortune before he rose to prominence by dint of his personal merit. His grandfather, Ibrahim, an Afghan of the Sur tribe, lived near Peshawar and his father's name Hasan. Ibrahim migrated with his son to the east in quest of military service in the early part of Buhlul Lodi's reign and both first entered the service of Mahabat Khan Sur, jagirdar of the paraganas of Hariana and Bakhala in the Punjab, and settled in the paragana of Bajwara or Bejoura. After some time Ibrahim got employment under Jamal Khan Sarang Khani of Hissar Firuza in the Delhi district, who conferred upon Ibrahim some villages in the paragana of Narnaul for the maintenance of forty horsemen in his service. Farid was born probably near Narnaul. Farid was soon taken to Sasaram by his father, Hasan, who had been granted a jagir there by his master, Umar Khan Sarwahi, entitled Khan-I-Azam, when the latter got the governorship of Jaunpur. Hasan, like the other nobles of his time, was a polygamist, and Farid's step-mother had predominant influence over him. This made him indifferent to Farid whereupon the latter left home at the age of twenty-two and went to Jaunpur. Thus the Afghan youth was forced into a life of adventure and struggle, which cast his mind and character in a heroic mould. For some time he devoted himself to study. By indefatigable industry and steady application, Farid early attracted the attention of his teachers at Jaunpur and quickly gained an uncommon acquaintance with the Persian language and literature. He was capable of reproducing from memory the Gulistan, Bustan and Sikandar-namah. Being pleased with this promising youth, Jamal Khan, his father's patron, effected a reconciliation between him and his father, who allowed him to return to Sasaram and to administer the paraganas of Sasaram and Khawaspur, both then within the jurisdiction of Sarkar. The successful administration of those two places by Farid served to increase his step-mother's jealousy, and so leaving Sasaram once again he went to Agra.

On the death of his father, Farid took possession of his paternal jagir on the strength of a royal foreman, which he had been able to procure at Agra. In 1522 he got into the service of Bahar Khan Lohani, the independent ruler of Bihar, whose favour he soon secured by discharging his duties honestly and assiduously. His master conferred on him the title of Sher Khan for his having shown gallantry by killing a tiger single-handed, and also soon rewarded his ability and faithfulness by appointing him his deputy (Vakil) and tutor (Ataliq) of his minor son, Jalal Khan. But perverse destiny again went against Sher. His enemies poisoned his master's mind against him, and he was once more deprived of his father's jagir. "Impressed by the complete success of Mughul arms" and with the prospect of future gain, he now joined Babur's camp, where he remained from April, 1527, to June, 1528. In return for the valuable services he rendered to Babur in his eastern campaigns, the latter restored Sasaram to him.

Sher soon left the Mughul service and came back to Bihar to become again its deputy governor and guardian of his former pupil, Jalal Khan. While the minor king remained as the nominal ruler of Bihar, Sher became the virtual head of its government. In the course of four years he won over the greater part of the army to his cause and "elevated himself to a state of complete independence". Meanwhile, the fortress of Chunar, luckily came into his possession. Taj Khan, the Lord of Chunar, was killed by his eldest son, who had risen against his father for his infatuation with a younger wife, Lad Malika. This widow, however, married Sher Khan and gave him the fortress of Chunar. Humayun besieged Chunar in 1531, but Sher Khan had taken no part in the Afghan rising of that year and saved his position by a timely submission to the Mughul invader. The rapid and unexpected rise of Sher at the expense of the Lohani Afghans made the latter, and even Jalal Khan, impatient of his control. They tried to get rid of this dictator. The attempt, however, failed owing to his "unusual circumspection". They then entered into an alliance (Sept., 1533) with Mahmud Shah, the King of Bengal, who was naturally eager to check the rise of Sher, which prejudiced his own prestige and power. But the brave Afghan deputy inflicted a defeat on the allied troops of the Bengal Sultan and the Lohanis at Surajgarh, on the banks of the Kiul river, east of the town of Bihar (1534). The victory at Surajgarh was indeed a turning-point in the career of Sher. "Great as it was as a military achievement, it was greater in its far-reaching political result... But for the victory at Surajgarh, the jagirdar of Sasaram would never have emerged from his obscurity into the arena of politics to run, in spite of himself, a race for the Empire with hereditary crowned heads like Bahadur Shah and Humayun Padshah." It made him the undisputed ruler of Bihar in fact as well as in name.

Sher had an opportunity to increase his power when Humayun marched against Bahadur Shah of Gujarat. He suddenly invaded Bengal and appeared before its capital, Gaur, not by the usual route through the Taliagarhi passes (near modern Sahebganj on the E.I. Ry. Loop line), but by another unfrequented and less circuitous one. Mahmud Shah, the weak ruler of Bengal, without making any serious attempt to oppose the Afghan invader, concluded peace with him by paying him a large sum, amounting to thirteen lacs of gold pieces, and by ceding to him a territory extending from Kiul to Sakrigali, ninety miles in length with a breadth of thirty miles. These fresh acquisitions considerably enhanced Sher's power and prestige, and, after the expulsion of Bahadur Shah of Gujarat to Diu, many of the distinguished Afghan nobles joined their rising leader in the east. Thus strengthened, Sher again invaded Bengal about the middle of October, 1537, with a view to conquering it permanently, and closely besieged the city of Gaur. Humayun, who on his way back from Gujarat and Malwa had been wasting his time at Agra, in his usual fashion, realized the gravity of the Afghan menace in the east rather too late and marched to oppose Sher Khan in the second week of December, 1537. But instead of proceeding straight to Gaur, by which he could have frustrated the designs of Sher Khan in alliance with the Sultan of Bengal, he besieged Chunar. The brave garrison of Sher Khan at Chunar baffled all the attempts of the assailants for six months, while Sher Khan was left free to utilize that time for the reduction of Gaur by April, 1538. Sher Khan had also captured the fortress of Rohtas by questionable means and had sent his family and wealth there. Baffled in Bihar, Humayun turned towards Bengal and entered Gaur in July, 1538. But Sher Khan, cleverly avoiding any open contest with him in Bengal, went to occupy the Mughul territories in Bihar and Jaunpur and plunder the tract as far west as kanauj.

Humayun, who was then whiling away his time in idleness and festivities at Gaur, was disconcerted on hearing of Sher's activities in the west and left Bengalfor Agra before his return should be cut off. But he was opposed on the way, at Chaunsa near Buxar, by Sher Khan and his Afghan followers and suffered a heavy defeat in June, 1539. Most of the Mughul soldiers were drowned or captured; and the life of their unlucky ruler was saved by a water-carrier, who carried him on his water-skin across the Ganges, into which he had recklessly jumped. The victory over the sovereign of Delhi widened the limit of Sher Khan's ambition and made him the de facto ruler of the territories extending from Kanauj in the west to the hills of Assam and Chittagong in the east and from the Himalayas in the north to the hills of Jharkhand (from Rohtas to Birbhum) and the Bay of Bengal in the south. To legalize what he had gained by the strength of arms and strategy, he now assumed the royal title of Sher Shah and ordered the Khutba to be read and the coins to be struck in his name. Next year Humayun made another attempt to recover his fortune, though he could not secure the co-operation of his brothers in spite of his best attempts. On the 17th May, 1540, the Mughuls and the Afghans met again opposite kanauj. The army of Humayun, hopelessly demoralized, half-hearted and badly officered, was severely defeated by the Afghans at the battle of the Ganges or Bilgram, commonly known as the battle of Kanauj, and Humayun just managed to escape. Thus the work of Babur in India was undone, and then sovereignty of Hindustan once more passed to the Afghans. From this time Humayun had to lead the life of a wandered for about fifteen years. The sons of Babur failed to combine even at such a critical moment, though Humayun went to Lahore and did his best to win them over. Their selfishness triumphed over common interests and Sher Shah was able to extend his authority to the Punjab also. The Afghan ruler marched, with his usual promptitude and vigour, to subdue the warlike hill tribes of the Gakkar country, situated between the upper courses of the Indus and the Jhelum. He ravaged this territory but could not thoroughly reduce the Gakkars, as he had to proceed hurriedly to Bengal in March, 1541, where his deputy had imprudently rebelled against his authority. He dismissed the rebel, "changed the military character of the provincial administration and substituted a completely new mechanism, at once original in principle and efficient in working". The province was divided into several districts, each of which was to be governed by an officer appointed directly by him and responsible to him alone.

Sher Shah next turned his attention against the Rajputs of the west, who had not yet recovered fully from the blow of Khanau. Having subjugated Malwa in A.D. 1542, he marched against Puran Mal of Raisin in Central India. After some resistance the garrison of the fort of Raisin capitulated, the Rajputs agreeing to evacuate the fort on condition that they were allowed to pass "unmolested" beyond the frontier of Malwa. But the Afghans fell furiously on the people of the fort as soon as the latter had come outside the walls. To save their wives and children from disgrace, the Rajputs took their lives, and themselves died to a man, fighting bravely against their formidable foe, in 1543. The Raisin incident has been condemned by several writers as a great blot on the character of Sher Shah. Sind and Multan were annexed to the Afghan Empire by the governor of Punjab. There remained only one more formidable enemy of Sher Shah to be subdued. He was Maldev, the Rajput ruler of Marwar, a consummate general and energetic ruler, whose territories extended over about 10,000 sq. miles. Instigated by some disaffected Rajput chiefs whose territories had been conquered by Maldev, Sher Khan led an expedition against the Rathor chief in AD 1544. Maldev, on his part, was not unprepared. Considering it inadvisable to risk an open battle with the Rathors in their own country, Sher Shah had recourse to a stratagem. He sent to Maldev a few forged letters, said to have been written to him by the Rajput generals, promising him their help, and thus succeeded in frightening the Rathor ruler, who retreated from the field and took refuge in the fortress of Sivan. In spite of this, the generals of the Rajput army, like Jeta and Kama, with their followers opposed Sher Shah's army and fought with desperate valour, but only to meet a warrior's death. Sher Shah won a victory, though at great cost, with the loss of several thousand Afghans on the battlefield and coming near to losing his empire. The Rajputs lost a chance of revival and the path was left open for undisputed Afghan supremacy over Northern India. After this success, Sher Shah reduced to submission the whole region from Ajmer to Abu and marched to besiege the for of Kalinjar. He succeeded in capturing the fort, but died from an accidental explosion of gunpowder on the 22nd may, 1545.

A brave warrior and a successful conqueror, Sher Shah was the architect of a brilliant administrative system, which elicited admiration even from eulogists of his enemies, the Mughuls. In fact, his qualities as a ruler were more remarkable than his victories on the field of battle. His brief reign of five years was marked by the introduction of wise and salutary changes in every conceivable branch of administration. Some of these were by way of revival and reformation of the traditional features of the old administrative systems of India, Hindu as well as Muslim, while others were entirely original in character, and form, indeed, a link between ancient and modern India. "No government-not even the British," affirms Mr. Keene, "has shown so much wisdom as this Pathan." Though Sher Shah's government was a highly centralized system, crowned by a bureaucracy, with real power concentrated in the hands of the King, he was not an unbridled autocrat, regardless of the rights and interests of the people. In the spirit of an enlightened despot, he "attempted to found an empire broadly based upon the people's will".

For convenience of administration, the whole Empire was divided into forty-seven units (sarkars), each of which was again divided into several paraganas. The paragana had one Ami , one Shiqdar, one treasurer, one Hindu writer and one Persian writer to keep accounts. Over the next higher administrative unit, the sarkar, were placed a Shiqdar-I-Shiqdaran and a Munsif-I-Munsifan to supervise the work of the paragana officers. To check undue influence of the officers in their respective jurisdictions, the King devised the plan of transferring them every two or three years, which, however, could not be long-enduring owing to the brief span of his rule. Every branch of the administration was subject to Sher Shah's personal supervision. Like Asoka and Harsha, he acted up to the maxim that "it behooves the great to be always active". Sher Shah's land revenue reforms, based on wise and humane principles, have unique importance in the administrative history of India; for they served as the model for future agrarian systems. After a careful and proper survey of the lands, he settled the land revenue direct with the cultivators, the State demand being fixed at one-fourth or one-third of the average produce, payable either in kind or in cash, the latter method being preferred. For actual collection of revenue the Government utilized the services of officers like the Amins, the Maqadams, the Shiqdars, the Qanungos and the Patwaris. Punctual and full paying of the assessed amount was insisted on and enforced, if necessary, by Sher Shah. He instructed the revenue officials to show leniency at the time of assessment and to be strict at the time of collection of revenues. The rights of the tenants were duly recognized and the liabilities of each were clearly defined in the kabuliyat (deed of agreement), which the State took from him, and the patta (title-deed), which it gave him in return. Remissions of rents were made, and probably loans were advanced to the tenants in case of damage to crops caused by the encampment of soldiers, or the insufficiency of rain. These revenue reforms increased the resources of the State and at the same time conduced to the interest of the people.

The currency and tariff reforms of Sher Shah were also calculated to improve the general economic condition of his Empire. He not only introduced some specific changes in the mint but also tried to rectify "the progressive deterioration of the previous Kings". He reformed the tariff by removing vexatious customs and permitting the imposition of customs on articles of trade only at the frontiers and in the places of sale. This considerably helped the cause of commerce by facilitating easy and cheap transport of merchandise. This was further helped by the improvement of communications. For the purpose of imperial defense, as well as for the convenience of the people, Sher Shah connected the important places of his kingdom by a chain of excellent roads. The longest of these, the Grand Trunk Road, which still survives, extends for 1,500 kilos from Sonargaon in Eastern Bengal to the Indus. One road ran from Agra to Burhanpur, another from Agra to Jodhpur and the fort of Chitor, and a fourth from Lahore to Multan. Following the traditions of some rulers of the past, Sher Shah planted shad-giving trees on both sides of the established roads, and sarais or rest-houses at different stages, separate arrangements being provided for the Muslims and the Hindus. These sarais also served the purpose of post-houses, which facilitated quick exchange of news and supplied the Government with information from different parts of the Empire. The maintenance of an efficient system of espionage also enabled the ruler to know what happened in his kingdom.To secure peace and order, the police system was reorganized, and the principle of local responsibility for local crimes was enforced. Thus the village headmen were made responsible for the detection of criminals, and maintenance of peace, in the rural areas. The efficiency of the system has been testified to by all the Muslim writers. "Such was the state of safety of the highway," observes Nizam-ud-din, who had no reason to be partial towards Sher Shah, "that if any one carried a purse full of gold (pieces) and slept in the desert (deserted places) for nights, there was no need for keeping watch."

Sher Shah had a strong sense of justice, and its administration under him was even-handed, no distinction being made between the high and the low, and not even the near relatives of the King being spared from its decrees. In the paragana, civil suits were disposed of by the Amin, and other cases, mostly criminal, by the Qazi and the Mir-I-Adal. Several paraganas had over them a Munsif-I-Munsifan to try civil cases. At the capital city there were the Chief Qazi, the imperial Sadr, and above all, the Emperor as the highest authority in judicial as in other matters. Though a pious Muslim, Sher Shah was not a fierce bigot. His treatment of the Hindus in general was tolerant and just. He employed Hindus in important offices of the State, one of his best generals being Brahamjit Gaur. "His attitude towards Hinduism," observes Dr. Qanungo, "was not of contemptuous sufferance but of respectful deference; it received due recognition in the State." Sher Shah realized the importance of maintaining a strong and efficient army, and so reorganized it, borrowing largely the main principles of 'Ala-ud-din Khalji's military system. the services of a body of armed retainers, or of a feudal levy, were not considered sufficient for his needs; he took care to maintain a regular army, the soldiers being bound to him, through their immediate commanding officer, by the strong tie of personal devotion and discipline. He had under his direct command a large force consisting of 150,000 cavalry, 25,000 infantry, 300 elephants and artillery. Garrisons were maintained at different strategic points of the kingdom; each of these, called a fauj, was under the command of a faujdar. Sher Shah enforced strict discipline in the army and took ample precautions to prevent corruption among the soldiers. Besides duly supervising the recruitment of soldiers, he personally fixed their salaries, took their descriptive rolls and revived the practice of branding horses.

Sher Shah is indeed a striking personality in the history of Medieval India. By virtue of sheer merit and ability he rose from a very humble position to be the leader of Afghan revival, and one of the greatest rulers that India has produced. His "military character" was marked by "a rare combination of caution and enterprise"; his political conduct was, on the whole, just and humane; his religious attitude was free from medieval bigotry; and his excellent taste in building is well attested, even today, by his noble mausoleum at Sasaram. He applied his indefatigable industry to the service of the State, and his reforms were well calculated to secure the interests of the people. He had, remarks Erskine, "more of the spirit of a legislator and a guardian of his people than any prince before Akbar". In fact, the real significance of his reign lies in the fact that he embodied in himself those very qualities which are needed for the building of a national State in India, and he prepared the ground for the glorious Akbaride regime in more ways than one. But for his accidental death after only five years' rule, the restoration of the Mughuls would not have been accomplished so soon. As Smith observes: "If Sher Shah had been spared, the 'Great Moghuls' would not have appeared on the stage of history." His right to the throne of India was better than that of Humayun. While Humayun had inherited the conquests of a Central Asian adventurer, who had not been able to create any strong claim, except that of force, for the rule of his dynasty in India, Sher Shah's family, hailing from the frontier, had lived within India for three generations. Further, the latter's equipment for kingship was exceptionally high, and had achieved a good deal more than the mere conquest of territories.

Sher Shah Suri


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## yahya07

S-19 said:


> Lets discuss what the Quran says about "Strongest Empire", shall we?
> 
> According to the Quran, the empire of Prophet SOlomon (PBUH) - The Kingdom of Israel, was the most powerful, both militarily and economically.
> 
> According to the Quran, the empire of Dhul Qarnain (PBUH) was militarily, the most powerful force at that time and had dominance in the east and west


 
Quoting the Quran now are we? Why don't you quote the parts the condemn racists to hell fire?

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## Birbal

Cloakedvessel said:


> Pakistan's Sex Slaves - YouTube
> 
> So, what's your excuse?



Speaking of which... Prostitution in the Netherlands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Cloakedvessel

Surenas said:


> You're right. The food/cuisine in those countries/empires are far superior to the other countries.



I think taste is personal. Not an objective criterium. I also doubt you have tried all African dishes.


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## IbnAlwaled

Surenas said:


> If we killed all war prisoners so why Cyrus the Great didn't kill Crousus when he defeated and captured him? So why *we captured a entire Roman legionary and brought them to Persia where they helped to build some bridges*? Do you have sources for your bizarre claim? We never had slaves like you guys and I'm proud of that.



So you do admit you had slaves. or did these defeated roman soldiers just voluntarily went to Persia to help build your infrastructure

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## Birbal

IbnAlwaled said:


> Ya you didn't practice slavery. You Kill ALL war prisoners, while we Arabs enslaved them or sat them free. The ones that were enslave a lot of them were set free later. Also, we didn't enslave people by their skin color, we enslaved Europeans, blacks, and Persians*(remember your princess Shahrbanu)*



Uhhhm. Okay.

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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> There weren't that much of Persian slaves in Arabia. And the legend on Shahrbanu is being questioned by some historians. You just remember Babak Khorramdin. He killed 10 Arabs for every Iranian that was killed.
> 
> 
> 
> You're right. The food/cuisine in those countries/empires are far superior to the other countries.



*Battle of Qadisiyah
*Was captured about 40,000 of the Persians (high class people) (Alashraf) and were sold as slaves in the markets
Ø§ÙÙØªØ­ Ø§ÙØ¥Ø³ÙØ§ÙÙ ÙÙØ§Ø±Ø³ - ÙÙÙÙØ¨ÙØ¯ÙØ§Ø Ø§ÙÙÙØ³ÙØ¹Ø© Ø§ÙØ­Ø±Ø©

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## Surenas

IbnAlwaled said:


> So you do admit you had slaves. or did these defeted roman soldiers just volentarally went to persia to hill build your infrastructre



They didn't build our infrastructure, like white Europeans are now doing in most of the Arab countries around the Persian Gulf. Yeah, they were defeated and brought to Persia as PRISONERS. You thought they would free them and wait for another attack? Eventually those Romans went to China. 



> According to Pliny, in 53 BC, after losing at the battle of Carrhae, 10,000 Roman prisoners were sent by the Parthians to Margiana to help guard the eastern frontier of the Parthian Empire. The Han Chinese later captured this area and the Roman prisoners were likely among the first Europeans to meet the Chinese directly. According to Homer H. Dubs, eventually part of these troops were recruited as mercenaries by the Xiongnu. They battled with the Chinese during the Battle of Zhizhi, where they were captured by the Chinese and moved to Liqian village, Yongchang County.


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## Mosamania

BLACKEAGLE said:


> *Battle of Qadisiyah
> *Was captured about 40,000 of the Persians (high class people) (Alashraf) and were sold as slaves in the markets
> Ø§Ù&#8222;ÙØªØ* Ø§Ù&#8222;Ø¥Ø³Ù&#8222;Ø§Ù&#8230;Ù&#352; Ù&#8222;ÙØ§Ø±Ø³ - Ù&#710;Ù&#352;Ù&#402;Ù&#352;Ø¨Ù&#352;Ø¯Ù&#352;Ø§Ø&#338; Ø§Ù&#8222;Ù&#8230;Ù&#710;Ø³Ù&#710;Ø¹Ø© Ø§Ù&#8222;Ø*Ø±Ø©



Those were the Tyrants of the Persian regime we had to free the people of Persia from the Tyrants that ruled them and introduce Islam to the people who were denied conversion.

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## Desert Fox

*Mahmud Ghaznavi of Ghazni, the Destroyer of Idols*

















MAHMUD GHAZNAVI

Born in 971, Mahmud Ghaznavi was the elder son of Subuktagin, the king of Ghazni. When Subuktagin attacked King Jaipal, Mahmud fought for his father in the battlefield. Though Mahmud was the elder son of his father, it is said that in his last days, Subuktagin was not happy with Mahmud. So, when Subuktagin died in 997, his younger son Ismail became the king of Ghazni.

Ismail reigned only for a little time. Very soon, Mahmud defeated him and became the king.

Mahmud began a series of seventeen raids into northwestern India at the end of the 10th century. Nonetheless, he did not attempt to rule Indian territory except for the Punjab, which was his gateway to India, as Ghazni lay in present day Afghanistan.

Description: C:\public_html\site\cimh\kings_master\kings\mahmud_ghaznavi\ghazni2.bmp

http://andrejkoymasky.com/liv/fam/biom1/mahm1.html

Invasions [partial list, work in progress]

1000 AD: Indian Frontier Towns



1001-03 AD: Jaipal, Peshawar

Jaipal was the king of Hindushahi Kingdom. Mahmud had already fought against him, when Subuktagin was the king of Ghazni. When Mahmud became the king, he decided to attack on Hindushahi Kingdom, as its king, Jaipal, was his old enemy.

In 1001, Mahmud attacked the Hindushahi Kingdom. 15,000 Hindu soldiers were killed. Jaipal was defeated and captured. He was presented before Mahmud with his 15 other relatives; 500,000 enslaved persons were also brought along.

Mahmud looted all his wealth. He received 250,000 Dinars to free Jaipal. About 5,00,000 Indians were taken to Ghazni as slaves. Though Jaipal was freed, but he refused to survive his disgrace. He cast himself upon a funeral pyre and died.

Description: Dinars and Slaves

1008: Anandpal

Anandpal was the son of Jaipal, and now became the king of Hindushahi Kingdom.

In 1008, Mahmud attacked on Anandpal. Anandpal called other Hindu kings to help him. The kings of Ujjain, Gwalior, Kalinjar, Kannauj, Delhi, Ajmer etc. came to help him with their armies. In the battlefield of Peshawar, both the armies remained standing before each other, but no one attacked. Meanwhile the Khokhars (a race) also came there to help Hindus. Mahmud deployed 6,000 archers to attack. Khokhars attacked the Muslims and killed approximately 5,000 Muslims.

Unfortunately, Jaipal's elephant became infuriated and ran from the battlefield. As soon as Jaipal left the battlefield, the Hindu army got confused and ran away. Muslims chased them and killed 20,000 Hindus. Thus, the best organized national efforts ever made by medieval Hindu India against the foreigners ended.

1009: Invasion of Nagarkot [Kangra]

Nagarkot was very famous for its wealth kept in its temples. So, Mahmud decided to invade Nagarkot. Like a swarm of locusts, his army destroyed everything in its path.

Paralyzed with fear, the defenders opened the city&#8217;s gate and fell on the ground in submission.

Mahmud got so much jewelry, gold and silver, that when he returned to his capital, his people congregated to see the incredible wealth of India.

1014: Thanesar

Mahmud came to know of the riches of Thanesar&#8217;s temples. In 1014, he invaded Thanesar. The Hindus wanted to reach on a compromise, but Mahmud refused. His army destroyed the city, massacred the inhabitants, and plundered the sacred temples.

1015: Kashmir Valley

1018-19: Mathura and Kannauj

When Mahmud invaded Mathura, he was amazed to see so many huge and beautiful Hindu temples. No one would resist him, and he entered the city unopposed, leaving with untold wealth.

Then, he attacked Kannauj in January of 1019. The King of Kannauj, Rajpal Pratihar did not dare to stop him and ran away. The invaders looted the sacred temples. Many innocent people were killed.

The king of Kannauj, Rajpal Pratihar accepted the superiority of Mahmud Ghaznavi and then Mahmud turned back for Ghazni.

1021: Kalinjar

Rajpal Pratihar, the king of Kannauj, had accepted the superiority of Mahmud. This made other Rajput kings angry. The Rajput kings of Kalinjar, Gandda Chandel, with the king of Gwalior and others attacked on Kannauj and killed the king Rajpal Pratihar.

Mahmud was unhappy with this. To punish the culprits, he attacked Kalinjar. The king, Gandda Chandel accepted the superiority of Mahmud. Mahmud was satisfied with the money the King gave him and he returned.

1023: Lahore

1925: Somnath, 16th Invasion
Description: Somnath & the Hindu Psyche
The most famous and terrible invasion launched by Mahmud was his sixteenth, against the Somnath Temple in Gujrat, western India. This was an immense distance from Ghanzni, but one supposes by now he was so feared that he had easy passage.

The Somnath temple was very famous for its treasures. There were one thousand priests to serve the temple. Hundreds of dancers and singers played before its gate. There was famous Linga, a rude pillar stone, adorned with gems embroidered with precious like stars, which decorated the shrine.

The brave Hindu Rajputs came forward to defend the temple. Shouting 'Allah hu Akbar', the enemy tried to entered into the temple. The Hindus fought very bravely and the invaders could not damage the temple. The battle lasted for three days.

After three days, the invaders succeeded and entered into the Somnath temple.

Mahmud ordered his men to destroy the sacred idol, Linga. He looted the treasures of the temple. It is said that he got wealth worth 20-million Dinars, eighty times the already huge sum he had gained on his first invasion.
1026: The 17th and Last Invasion

After looting the Somnath temple, when Mahmud was going back to Ghazni, the Jats had attacked his army. So, to punish the Jats, he returned and defeated them in 1026.

Death of Mahmud

On April 30, 1030, Mahmud died in Ghazni, at the age of 59 years. He had contracted malaria during his last invasion. This turned to tuberculosis. 

Mahmud Ghaznavi's 17 Invasions of India [Work in Progress]

Afghans In History Episode Four - Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi - YouTube
*MOD EDIT*

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## Cloakedvessel

S-19 said:


> Lets discuss what the Quran says about "Strongest Empire", shall we?
> 
> According to the Quran, the empire of Prophet SOlomon (PBUH) - The Kingdom of Israel, was the most powerful, both militarily and economically.
> 
> According to the Quran, the empire of Dhul Qarnain (PBUH) was militarily, the most powerful force at that time and had dominance in the east and west



Which verses?


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## Water Car Engineer

A1Kaid said:


> Please Indians really need to stop fantasizing about this ancient peace loving Buddhist dynasty that managed to* expand because there was little to no people around or factions to resist.* Mauryan is not considered even in the top 20 strongest empires of history.
















Seleucids invaded India(Mauryan at the time). They lost their eastern parts of their land. And gained 500 war elephants from Maurya.



A1Kaid said:


> So you seriously think Maurya dynasty/empire is one of the "strongest empires" in history? Lol


 
At it's time, it was.



> expand because there was little to no people around or factions to resist.



Most big empire took over smaller ones.

Arabs are one of the few who were weak, but swallowed Persia whole and took large chucks of Roman territory. When they were large.

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## King Solomon

Cloakedvessel said:


> Which verses?


 
Prophet Solomon (pbuh) has a whole chapter dedicated to his magnificient empire with technologies not even seen in modern age. I suggest you to read Harun Yahya's book "Prophet Solomon (pbuh)" for a complete understanding of his kingdom. The book also discussed Dhul Qarnain (pbuh)'s empire.


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## Desert Fox

*Sultan Shahabudin Muhammad Ghori of Ghor*


















The Ghurids or Ghorids (Persian: &#1587;&#1604;&#1587;&#1604;&#1607; &#1594;&#1608;&#1585;&#1740;&#1575;&#1606;&#8206;; self-designation: Shansab&#257;n&#299 were a medieval Muslim dynasty of Iranian origin that ruled during the 12th and 13th centuries in Khorasan.[2] At its zenith, their empire, centred at Gh&#333;r (now a province in Afghanistan), stretched over an area that included the whole of modern Afghanistan, the eastern parts of Iran, Pakistan and the northern section of the India, as far as Delhi. The Ghurids were succeeded in Persia by the Khw&#257;razm-Sh&#257;h dynasty and in North India by the Mamluk dynasty of the Delhi Sultanate.

n the 19th century, some European scholars, such as Mountstuart Elphinstone, favoured the idea that the Ghurid dynasty was Pashtun,[3][4][5] but this is generally rejected by modern scholarship, and, as explained by Morgenstierne in the Encyclopaedia of Islam, is for "various reasons very improbable".[6] Instead, the consensus in modern scholarship (incl. Morgenstierne, Bosworth, Dupree, Gibb, Ghirshman, Longworth Dames and others) holds that the dynasty was most likely of Tajik origin.[7][8][9] Bosworth further points out that the actual name of the Ghurid family, &#256;l-e &#352;ansab (Persianized: &#352;ansab&#257;n&#299, is the Arabic pronunciation of the originally Middle Persian name Wi&#353;nasp, perhaps hinting at a (Sassanian) Iranic origin.[10]

Language

The language of the Ghurids is subject to some controversy. What is known with certainty is that it was considerably different from the New Persian literary language of the Ghaznavid court. Nevertheless, like the Samanids and Ghaznavids, the Ghurids were great patrons of New Persian literature, poetry, and culture, and promoted these in their courts as their own. There is nothing to confirm the recent surmise (as claimed in the Pa&#7789;a Khaz&#257;na) that the Ghurids were Pashto-speaking,[11] and there is no evidence that the inhabitants of Ghor were originally Pashto-speaking.[7]

Before the mid-12th century, the Ghurids had been bound to the Ghaznavids and Seljuks for about 150 years. Beginning in the mid-12th century, Ghor expressed its independence from the Ghaznavid Empire. In 1149 the Ghaznavid ruler Bahram Sh&#257;h poisoned a local Gh&#363;rid leader, Qu&#7789;b ud-D&#299;n, who had taken refuge in the city of Ghazna after a family quarrel. In revenge, the Gh&#363;rid chief &#703;Al&#257;&#702;-ud-D&#299;n &#7716;usayn sacked and burned the city of Ghazna and put the city into fire for seven days and seven nights. It earned him the title of Jah&#257;ns&#363;z, meaning "the world burner".[12] The Ghaznavids retook the city with Seljuk help, but lost it to Oghuz Turk freebooters.[12] In 1152, Ala ad-Din Jahan-Suz Husain refused to pay tribute to the Seljuks and instead marched an army from Firuzkuh but was defeat at Nab by Sultan Ahmed Sanjar.[13]

In 1173, Shahabuddin Muhammad Ghori reconquered the city of Ghazna and assisted his brother Ghiyasuddin&#8212;to whom he was a loyal subordinate&#8212;in his contest with Khwarezmid Empire for the lordship of Khor&#257;s&#257;n. Shahabuddin Ghori captured Multan and Uch in 1175 and annexed the Ghaznavid principality of Lahore in 1186. After the death of his brother Ghiyas-ud-Din in 1202, he became the successor of his empire and ruled until his assassination in 1206 near Jhelum by Khokhar tribesmen (in modern-day Pakistan).[14] A confused struggle then ensued among the remaining Gh&#363;rid leaders, and the Khwarezmids were able to take over the Gh&#363;rids' empire in about 1215. Though the Gh&#363;rids' empire was short-lived, Shahabuddin Ghori's conquests strengthened the foundations of Muslim rule in India. On his death, the importance of Ghazna and Ghur dissipated and they were replaced by Delhi as the centre of Islamic influence during the rule of his successor Sultans in India.[15]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/166736-strongest-empires-timeline-25.html#post2724818

Afghanistan - YouTube


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## scholseys

What empire is the dhul qurain? is it alexander the great's empire?


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## Water Car Engineer

Desert Fox said:


> *Sultan Shahabudin Muhammad Ghori of Ghor*



This is a Hindu.

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## Icewolf

Sir LurkaLot said:


> At it's time, it was.
> 
> 
> 
> Most big empire took over smaller ones.
> 
> Arabs are one of the few who were weak, but swallowed Persia whole and took large chucks of Roman territory. When they were large.


 
A map?? He was saying how powerful the empire is... Not how much land it had...


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## King Solomon

aazidane said:


> What empire is the dhul qurain? is it alexander the great's empire?



No, its not Alexander. Dhul Qarnain (pbuh) is a prophet discussed in the Quran and his magnificent military power which dominated east and west at its time. Modern historians estimate his empire to be located in present day Russia (Caucacus region)


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## A1Kaid

Sir LurkaLot said:


>


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## Surenas

Sir LurkaLot said:


>



I think you put the wrong map here? The Seleucids were Macedonians.


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## scholseys

S-19 said:


> No, its not Alexander. Dhul Qarnain (pbuh) is a prophet discussed in the Quran and his magnificent military power which dominated east and west at its time. Modern historians estimate his empire to be located in present day Russia (Caucacus region)



well, few scholars debate that cyrus the great was dhul qurayn.


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## Water Car Engineer

Icewolf said:


> A map?? He was saying how powerful the empire is... Not how much land it had...



No...

He said

And it had to be powerful to have that much land btw.



A1Kaid said:


> Please Indians really need to stop fantasizing about this ancient peace loving Buddhist dynasty that managed to* expand because there was little to no people around or factions to resist.* Mauryan is not considered even in the top 20 strongest empires of history.



Which is wrong, because the Seleucids(Successor of Alexander) wasn't done with India. They invaded India, but lost and they made a treaty. 

Mauryan - gains eastern parts of Seleucids empire. And Seleucus I Nicator gave his daughter in marriage to the emperor.
Seleucid - gains 500 war elephants. Which he used successfully in his campaigns in the west.

Earlier Mauryans beat the Nandas. Which was big compared to it back then.








A1Kaid said:


> * expand because there was little to no people around or factions to resist.*




So this is false.

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## scholseys

No one mentioned the tumurid Dynasty...






Timur was the great grandfather of Babur.


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## Surenas

Safavid empire:







Afsharid empire:

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## FairAndUnbiased

yahya07 said:


> I am not denying Africans may have underachieved, probably so. But we are definitely not the no-doers as we are often depicted in the media or even some academic circles. I've thought about this many times and I must say I was struck by what Sarkozy had to say:
> 
> 
> 
> You have to remember Africans were the first human beings, those who went north to the colder region had to innovate to get warm and got their white skins because of lack of sunlight, these people basically were required to think outside the box for them to survice. I think the need of innovation was absent from Africans and they continued to live the same way for thousands of years because there was no need for change, their thinking process was always in cycles and never challenged. I think environment played a large rule, would be interested to hear other opinions.
> 
> ps there is a book called "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies" that goes into depth about this theory, haven't read it yet but will soon.



Most people think Africans are the West Africans, because those were the blacks that were sent to the US by the slave trade, but never realize that East Africans created civilization a long time ago in Nubia, and Ethiopia was the only independent nation in all of Africa throughout the 19th century.

I also find that most of the democracy advocates, just as in the Soviet Union, are hardcore right wing racists. That's great to know as there will be no sympathy for them when they're inevitably crushed by the state.

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## Roybot

Desert Fox said:


> *Sultan Shahabudin Muhammad Ghori of Ghor*



lmao why does Ghori have a Tilak on his forehead in the second pic. Thats Shivaji Maharaj!

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## Water Car Engineer

Sense everyone is dissing Africans. Some large black African empires.

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## Desert Fox

Roybot said:


> lmao why does Ghori have a Tilak on his forehead in the second pic. Thats Shivaji Maharaj!



I did not notice that, even now i can't see it.


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## A1Kaid

Roybot said:


> lmao why does Ghori have a Tilak on his forehead in the second pic. Thats *Shivaji Maharaj!*




I don't know what's funnier posting the accidental picture or that guy's name. Lol

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## Surenas

Great video's:

History Of The Empires - YouTube

Timeline Map of Ancient Persia to Iran - YouTube


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## Cloakedvessel

S-19 said:


> Prophet Solomon (pbuh) has a whole chapter dedicated to his magnificient empire with technologies not even seen in modern age. I suggest you to read Harun Yahya's book "Prophet Solomon (pbuh)" for a complete understanding of his kingdom. The book also discussed Dhul Qarnain (pbuh)'s empire.



I just had a glance at his booklet. Frankly, 'Harun Yahya's' interpretation (imagination?) of those verses are a bit colorful for my taste. The verses about Solomon speak of his faith, his superior moral character, and power and supernatural abilities bestowed on him by God. But mentioning Solomon of possessing advanced technology in the Quran, such as unmanned drones, as the author suggests? That's really far-fetched to say at least.

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## Desert Fox

*Mirwais Hotaki, Hotaki Empire*
















The Hotaki were an Afghan tribe and dynasty that ruled over Afghanistan, most of Iran, and northwestern parts of Pakistan from 1722 to 1729, after defeating the Persian Safavid dynasty. The Hotaki dynasty was founded in 1709 by Mirwais Hotak, chief of the Ghilzai Pashtuns of Kandahar who led a successful revolution against the Persian Safavids.[1] After the death of Mirwais in November 1715, the monarchy passed on to his brother Abdul Aziz followed by their sons until the dynasty finally ended in 1738 when Nader Shah and his Afsharids of Khorasan defeated Hussain Hotaki at his Kandahar fortress.[2]

Kandahar province was captured and ruled by the Shi'a Safavids during the early 18th century but the native Afghan tribes living in the area were Sunni Muslims. immediately to the east began the Sunni Moghul Empire of India, who occasionally fought wars with the Safavids over the territory of Kandahar.[3]

In 1704, the Safavid Shah Husayn appointed George XI (Gurg&#299;n Kh&#257;n), who had converted to Islam.[4] Gurgin began imprisoning and executing many Afghans, especially those suspected of organizing rebellions.[citation needed] One of those arrested and imprisoned was Mirwais Hotak who belonged to an influential family in Kandahar. Mirwais was sent as a prisoner to the Persian court in Isfahan but the charges against him were dismissed by the king, so he was sent back to his native land as a free man.[5]

In April 1709, Mirwais along with his followers revolted against the Safavid rule in Kandahar City. The uprising began when Gurg&#299;n Kh&#257;n and his escort were killed during a picnic that was prepared by Mirwais at his farmhouse outside the city. It is reported that heavy drinking of alcohol was involved. Next, Mirwais ordered the deaths of the remaining Persian government and military officials in the region. The Afghans then defeated twice a large Persian army that was dispatched from Isfahan (capital of the Safavids), which included Qizilbash and Georgian troops.[6]

_ Several half-hearted attempts to subdue the rebellious city having failed, the Persian Government despatched Khusraw Khán, nephew of the late Gurgín Khán, with an army of 30,000 men to effect its subjugation, but in spite of an initial success, which led the Afgháns to offer to surrender on terms, his uncompromising attitude impelled them to make a fresh desperate effort, resulting in the complete defeat of the Persian army (of whom only some 700 escaped) and the death of their general. Two years later, in A.D. 1713, an*other Persian army commanded by Rustam Khán was also defeated by the rebels, who thus secured possession of the whole province of Qandahár.[6]
&#8212;Edward G. Browne, 1924_

Refusing the title of a king, Mirwais was given the title "Prince of Qandahár and General of the national troops" by his Afghan countrymen. He died peacefully in November 1715 from a natural cause and was succeeded by his brother Abdul Aziz, who was murdered later by Mirwais' son Mahmud. In 1720, Mahmud's Afghan forces crossed the deserts of Sistan and captured Kerman.[6] His plan was to conquer the Persian capital, Isfahan.[7] After defeating the Persian army at the Battle of Gulnabad on March 8, 1722, he proceeded to and sacked the city of Isfahan.[8] On October 23, 1722, Sultan Husayn abdicated and acknowledged Mahmud as the new Shah of Persia.[9]

Majority of the Persian people, however, rejected the Afghan regime as usurping. For the next seven years until 1729, the Hotakis became the de facto rulers of Persia, but the southern and eastern areas of Afghanistan still remained under their control until 1738.

The Hotaki dynasty was a troubled and violent one as internecine conflict made it difficult to establish permanent control. The dynasty lived under great turmoil due to bloody succession feuds that made their hold on power tenuous, and after the massacre of thousands of civilians in Isfahan &#8211; including more than three thousand religious scholars, nobles, and members of the Safavid family &#8211; the Hotaki dynasty was eventually removed from power in Persia.[10] On the other hand, the Afghans were also suppressed by the Safavid government under Gurgin Khan before their uprising in 1709.[5]
[edit] Decline

Ashraf Hotaki, who took over the monarchy following Shah Mahmud's death in 1725, and his soldiers were defeated in the October 1729 Battle of Damghan by Nader Shah, a soldier of fortune from the Sunni Turkmen background and the founder of the Afsharid dynasty that replace the Safavids in Persia. Nader Shah had driven out the remaining Ghilzai forces from Persia and began enlisting the Abdali Afghans of Farah and Kandahar in his military. Nader Shah's forces (among them were Ahmad Shah Abdali and his 4,000 Abdali troops) conquered Kandahar in 1738. They besieged and destroyed the last Hotaki seat of power, which was held by Hussain Hotaki (or Shah Hussain).[7][11] Nader Shah then built a new town nearby, named after himself, "N&#257;der&#257;b&#257;d", to replace the ancient city. The Abdalis were also restored to the general area of Kandahar, with the Ghilza'is being pushed back to their former stronghold of Kalat-i Ghilzai--an arrangement that lasts to the present day Afghanistan.

Hotaki dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Afghans In History Episode Three - Mirwais Khan Hotaki - YouTube


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## King Solomon

Cloakedvessel said:


> I just had a glance at his booklet. Frankly, 'Harun Yahya's' interpretation (imagination?) of those verses are a bit colorful for my taste. The verses about Solomon speak of his faith, his superior moral character, and power and supernatural abilities bestowed on him by God. But mentioning Solomon of possessing advanced technology in the Quran, such as unmanned drones, as the author suggests? That's really far-fetched to say at least.



If you believe Darwinist Evolutionary theory, then it is impossible. But if you really take them as it is stated in the Quran, his kingdom did possess advanced technology, gifted by God.

eg. Quran says he "could do one month journey in the morning and another month in the afternoon". Either you can picture a magician, with a magic stick, hurling his stick and some wings emerges out of his back. Then he uses those wings to fly like that. 

Or you can actually see as it is meant: God gifted him the technology to create a vehicle, with which he could fly one months journey in morning and another in afternoon.


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## Roybot

A1Kaid said:


> I don't know what's funnier posting the accidental picture or that guy's name. Lol



Whats funny about the name?


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## agentny17

Thought this would be nice to share. No Egyptian have ruled Egypt since this time up until 1952.

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## Water Car Engineer

Desert Fox said:


> What's so racist about the truth?
> 
> What civilization did Africans build? Did they have a written language as the Europeans and Asians did?
> 
> What did Native Africans from the continent of Africa invent that is comparable to the Automobile, the Locomotive, the calculator, the refrigerator, the air plane, the Ships, the computers, the light bulb, the telephone, the compass.
> 
> Look at Haiti, a Black country that got its independence from France a few decades after the United States got its independence from Britain, yet Haiti still remains in shambles while USA has become a super power.
> 
> 
> Still don't believe me? Look at Liberia, a nation where freed American slaves were sent to after the American Civil war, where is Liberia today? Cannibalism, civil war, killing their own and eating little babies and drinking their blood before battle, fighting naked with guns, 85% female population raped.
> 
> Still don't believe me? Look at South Africa now, once the only nation in Africa that was making strides, and now look at it, read about the farm murders, the rape, and all of that other crap that has prevailed in that nation.
> 
> 
> Listen to what this guy says from 5:02
> 
> Her name is "Ms. Ann" - YouTube




Ok.

When the Western Europeans(Germans, France, Britian, etc) colonist(Romans) left, what where they doing???

When Rome left Western Europe, it went through the dark ages. It's people were dieing of disease and were fighting each other constantly. Western Europe was the sh!thole of the world, but look at them in modern history.

Look at the Germans, French, British, etc. They were a bunch of uncivilized savages, now their child rule the world.

So don't under estimate Africans or anyone else.

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## NeutralCitizen

Mughals well decent.


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## Roybot

NeutralCitizen said:


> Mughals well decent.



The 1707 extent didn't last very long, I think 5-10 years.


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## Desert Fox

*And now, the Graveyard of Empires: Afghanistan, PART 1*























Afghan Pashtun Warrior Frontier Tribesmen armed with their Jezails, Anglo Afghan War






Pashtun Tribesmen following their Amir towards battle






British cavalry charging to kill Pashtun resisters









Afghan Pashtun Tribesmen butchering British Punjab regiment on its retreat to india






The last british survivor of a 16,500 strong british army contingent : _'Remnants of an Army' by Elizabeth Butler portraying William Brydon arriving at the gates of Jalalabad as the only survivor of a 16,500 strong evacuation from Kabul in January 1842.
_[/QUOTE]


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## Desert Fox

*Graveyard of Empires, Afghanistan, PART 2*


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## Desert Fox

*Afghanistan; Land of Lions, Graveyard of Empires:
*











Afghans In History Episode Seventeen - Afghanistan: The Land of Lions - YouTube


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## Desert Fox

They did what the whole of NATO was afraid to do, bring down the Soviet Bear.

Mark Lex Eros - The 9th Company - The Final Battle - YouTube


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## Cloakedvessel

S-19 said:


> If you believe Darwinist Evolutionary theory, then it is impossible. But if you really take them as it is stated in the Quran, his kingdom did possess advanced technology, gifted by God.
> 
> eg. Quran says he "could do one month journey in the morning and another month in the afternoon". Either you can picture a magician, with a magic stick, hurling his stick and some wings emerges out of his back. Then he uses those wings to fly like that.
> 
> Or you can actually see as it is meant: God gifted him the technology to create a vehicle, with which he could fly one months journey in morning and another in afternoon.


 
Solomon was able to communicate with animals. If I follow your line of reasoning, that would mean Solomon was probably equipped with highly advanced communicators. 
These notions of abilities in these verses are examples of miracles, not to be inserted with present or futuristic technology. As if God enable powers to prophets, only if the understanding by the human mind is confined in terms of technology. And as if God would be limited by human imagination.
Jesus could make birds out of clay according to the Quran. What technology do you suggest that he was given? 
These colorful 'interpretations' only create more difficulties and questions than answer them. They do not render justice to the real intent of the verses. 
Why imagine at all, second guess? Isn't it just enough to believe it? They were after all divinely gifted miracles.


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## Birbal

Cloakedvessel said:


> I just had a glance at his booklet. Frankly, 'Harun Yahya's' interpretation (imagination?) of those verses are a bit colorful for my taste. The verses about Solomon speak of his faith, his superior moral character, and power and supernatural abilities bestowed on him by God. But mentioning Solomon of possessing advanced technology in the Quran, such as unmanned drones, as the author suggests? That's really far-fetched to say at least.



This is funny. I used to think the Hindu chauvinists were the only ones to claim advanced ancient technologies. Apparently others do it too.

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## Shardul.....the lion

A1Kaid said:


> I don't know what's funnier posting the accidental picture or that guy's name. Lol



You might not be knowing who Shivaji Maharaj is?

Real Name: Shivaji Bhosale
Shivaji as an aristocrat of the Bhosle clan led a resistance to free the Maratha people from the Sultanate of Bijapur, and establish Hindavi Swarajya ("self-rule of Hindu people"). He created an independent Maratha kingdom with Raigad as its capital, and successfully fought against the Mughals to defend his kingdom.

The Maratha confederacy which was responsible for demise of the Mughal empire, was started by Shivaji Maharaj.

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## King Solomon

Cloakedvessel said:


> Solomon was able to communicate with animals. If I follow your line of reasoning, that would mean Solomon was probably equipped by highly advanced communicators.
> These notions of abilities in these verses are examples of miracles, not to be inserted with present or futuristic technology. As if God enable powers to prophets, only if the understanding by the human mind is confined in terms of technology. And as if God would be limited by human imagination.
> Jesus could make birds out of clay according to the Quran. What technology do you suggest that he was given?
> These colorful 'interpretations' only create more difficulties and questions than answer them. They do not render justice to the real intent of the verses.
> Why imagine at all, second guess? Isn't it just enough to believe it?



The problem here is the Darwinist evolutionary methodology which you seem to follow, which envisages that at Solomon's time everyone was living in "Stone age" and "moving one month's path in a hour" is not possible without *magical wings.*. However, Quran does not envision such a literal, fairy-tale like interpretation.

Take for example the Airplane. God gave its inventor the knowledge to invent it so we are able to "travel one month path in one hour". So, is airplane a human invention, or gifted by God? If you are a Muslim, you would believe the latter even though a human apparently invented it. So, when I say that God also gave Solomon the technology, I mean that God gave Solomon the knowledge, wisdom and power to create such technology in his kingdom, by which he could "travel one month path in one hour". And later, Solomon was grateful to God for "favoring him over others" and he knew that "all these gifts are from him, the one God".

As for the "listening to ant", yes, do you know that ants emit sonar frequency through which they communicate? The subject is examined with proofs, in his book.


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## S.Y.A

JEskandari said:


> you know I don't like to enter this sunni - shia discussion and post some useless
> comment , as one of the Muslims problem today is this debate .
> but if you like it I can post this in response to you.
> 
> Yes alhamdulillah that God send his chosen Mojahid and great warrior Abu Lulu(r.a.) who killed that cruel tyrant..
> Do you like Abu Lulu(r.a.) ?



just one thing.............even u people were not shias during his time, if i am not wrong ismail safawi forced shia religion on iranis, so technically your ancestors are Sunnis, and BTW where were shias at the time of Rashidun Caliphs?


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## IbnAlwaled

S.Y.A said:


> just one thing.............even u people were not shias during his time, if i am not wrong ismail safawi forced shia religion on iranis, so technically your ancestors are Sunnis, and BTW where were shias at the time of Rashidun Caliphs?


Yes, Iranians accepted Islam willingly and gradually , but were converted to the Shia religion by the sword:
Safavid conversion of Iran from Sunnism to Shiism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## The SC

Surenas said:


> Thats because you have a narrow view of what the Arabs really are. All of those people you mention aren't Arabs and during their time they don't saw themselves as Arabs. I don't give a damn which people now call themselves Arabs. I'm talking about history, not present time. Fact is that throughout history the most people who came in contact with the Arabs saw them as barbaric savages without any civilization. From North Africa to Iran. Even now, you are considered to be a backward people with middle-ages views. While in every country we immigrate too we are among the most educated people, your people are famous in Europe for raping woman, stealing and barbaric behavior.
> 
> Al Jazeera arab self-criticism MEMRI TV - YouTube



Where are you from surena? since you say we in Europe, *we* the Arabs want to know to which ethnic group do you belong. since you seem to think of yourself as the best and biggest historian of all time , we the Arabs want to glorify you.
And to show you how ignorant you are, Copts belong to a religious group; the Christian Coptic church of Egypt and they are Arabs since time memorial. So you are an Arab who hates Arabs, this means that you are lying too, your hatred is obviously directed towards Islam and Muslims.
I know Holland and Amsterdam and how the Dutch people think, I am sure they do not like you.

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## The SC

Surenas said:


> Maybe in Europe, but not one Arab slavery. Maybe we can state that slavery is developed by the Semitic people, Arab and Jews.



It was developed since time memorial by all civilisations as prisoners of war were usually either killed or Enslaved, but to become a profitable business it took the Jews to deal in it.

The Arabs were Aryans who adopted a Semitic language .

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

persia was the first super power on this planet, and under its reign under darius and cyrus it had almost 40-50% of the worlds population under it. it was a very tolerant empire. unlike others we did not force people to follow our zoroastrian religion.

christrians and islam simply took so much from zoroastrian but they will never admit it.
the idea of a single god came from zorastrian, same with hell and heaven and devil.

persian was undoubtly one the greatest empires ever, even with the west today trying to downgrade it so much, we still see it as a great empire.


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Surenas said:


> You're African?


i am african and before rome we egyptians had a great civlization the greatest in every thing

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## BLACKEAGLE

*VERY IMPORTANT TO WATCH! 
*

Some lies here are exposed. This would be pretty embarrassing.

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## Hack-Hook

IbnAlwaled said:


> So you do admit you had slaves. or did these defeated roman soldiers just voluntarily went to Persia to help build your infrastructure



what slave they attacked and destroyed many places ,then when 1/3th of Iran army come and captured them we asked the roman empire to pay for the destruction they made ,but they were not willing to do that so we sent them to the court and court sentenced them for several hours of community works to pay for their destructive behavior , whats bad about it it's the common practice today every court in west sentence juvenile with destructive behavior to do community works and so.

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## Surenas

BLACKEAGLE said:


> VERY IMPORTANT TO WATCH!
> 
> Some lies here are exposed. This would be pretty embarrassing.



Wow! Great video. We should change al the history books now! I asked you for a respected historian and you give me this great Youtube-kid who made this video probably in his bedroom and changed my and the world's whole image of you civilized Arabs!

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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> Wow! Great video. We should change al the history books now! I asked you for a respected historian and you give me this great Youtube-kid who made this video probably in his bedroom and changed my and the world's whole image of you civilized Arabs!



Read about the mentioned people and tell me about them. Their breakthroughs in all areas, are they Arabs or what? get your info regarding them and post here back. I am waiting...


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## PERSIAN GOD KING

LOL at this jordanian guy.

he did not even know the acheamenids was persian empire.
man I love it when an uneducated person tries to act wise.

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## Surenas

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Read about the mentioned people and tell me about them. Their breakthroughs in all areas, are they Arabs or what? get your info regarding them and post here back. I am waiting...



Do you know what I'm gonna give you? A quote from a respected man:



> ''Persian-speaking Iranians made great contributions in the formation of Islamic intellectual history. *A great portion (and most of the best) of medieval Muslim philosophers, physicians, ethicists, scientists, Islamic jurists, historians, and geographers were Persian-speaking Iranians. [....]* A great many medieval islamic contributions to economic analysis, I will argue, were made by Persian-speaking Iranians writers: philosophers, ethicist, scientists, theologians and the writers of ''mirror of princes.''



- Joseph. A. Schumpeter.

I'm waiting for such quotes to Arabs from respected figures. You can go search now!

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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> Wow! Great video. We should change al the history books now! I asked you for a respected historian and you give me this great Youtube-kid who made this video probably in his bedroom and changed my and the world's whole image of you civilized Arabs!




THIS IS THE HISTORY:

"Arab Muslims conquests have been variously seen in Iran: by some as a blessing, the advent of the true faith, the end of the age of ignorance and heathenism; by others as a humiliating national defeat, the conquest and subjugation of the country by foreign invaders. Both perceptions are of course valid, depending on one's angle of vision&#8230; Iran was indeed Islamized, but it was not Arabized. Persians remained Persians. And after an interval of silence, Iran reemerged as a separate, different and distinctive element within Islam, eventually adding a new element even to Islam itself. Culturally, politically, and most remarkable of all even religiously, the Iranian contribution to this new Islamic civilization is of immense importance. The work of Iranians can be seen in every field of cultural endeavor, including Arabic poetry, to which poets of Iranian origin composing their poems in Arabic made a very significant contribution. In a sense, Iranian Islam is a second advent of Islam itself, a new Islam sometimes referred to as Islam-i Ajam. It was this Persian Islam, rather than the original Arab Islam, that was brought to new areas and new peoples: to the Turks, first in Central Asia and then in the Middle East in the country which came to be called Turkey, and of course to India. The Ottoman Turks brought a form of Iranian civilization to the walls of Vienna."[41]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Persia#cite_note-lewis-40


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## Surenas

BLACKEAGLE said:


> THIS IS THE HISTORY:
> 
> "Arab Muslims conquests have been variously seen in Iran: by some as a blessing, the advent of the true faith, the end of the age of ignorance and heathenism; by others as a humiliating national defeat, the conquest and subjugation of the country by foreign invaders. Both perceptions are of course valid, depending on one's angle of vision&#8230; *Iran was indeed Islamized, but it was not Arabized. Persians remained Persians.* And after an interval of silence, *Iran reemerged as a separate, different and distinctive element within Islam,* eventually adding a *new element even to Islam itself.* Culturally, politically, and most remarkable of all even religiously, *the Iranian contribution to this new Islamic civilization is of immense importance.* The work of Iranians can be seen in every field of cultural endeavor, including Arabic poetry, to which poets of Iranian origin composing their poems in Arabic made a very significant contribution. In a sense, Iranian Islam is a second advent of Islam itself, a new Islam sometimes referred to as Islam-i Ajam. *It was this Persian Islam, rather than the original Arab Islam,* that was brought to new areas and new peoples: to the Turks, first in Central Asia and then in the Middle East in the country which came to be called Turkey, and of course to India. *The Ottoman Turks brought a form of Iranian civilization to the walls of Vienna."*
> Muslim conquest of Persia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Thank you for that quote! You're so blind to see that that quote exactly shows the greatness of Iranian contribution/science. You thought you had me?

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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> Do you know what I'm gonna give you? A quote from a respected man:
> 
> 
> 
> - Joseph. A. Schumpeter.
> 
> I'm waiting for such quotes to Arabs from respected figures. You can go search now!



I don't need a quot from westerns. We are and were the victorious and we wrote the history. Its well known the the defeated side would try to distort it to hide his constant humiliating defeats throught history.


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## Hack-Hook

IbnAlwaled said:


> Yes, Iranians accepted Islam willingly and gradually , but were converted to the Shia religion by the sword:
> Safavid conversion of Iran from Sunnism to Shiism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


wrong at least three of Iran Muslim dynasties were Shia and they were at the time of Abbasid .

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

STOP debating with this guy.

he did not even know the acheamenids were persian. come one man. this guy is just a waste of time.

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## Deno

Please can someone tell me why Turkish rulers of Iran is posted here as they were Persians? Dude... Persians natured the some greatest scholars of Middle East but after Islam and specially after Turkic migration they didn't rule anything.... They took the rule after 20th century and until then they were ruled by Turkish people which we call Azeris thanks to USSRs assimilation policies...


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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> Thank you for that quote! You're so blind to see that that quote exactly shows the greatness of Iranian contribution/science. You thought you had me?



Who denied those Persian speaking scientists who were born in central Asia? they contributed but didn't do even some of what Arabs did, so thats why they have Arab names and wrote their books in Arabic.


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## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> It was developed since time memorial by all civilisations as prisoners of war were usually either killed or Enslaved, but to become a profitable business it took the Jews to deal in it.
> 
> The Arabs were Aryans who adopted a Semitic language .


first you claim sumer , babilon and ashur and Egypt were Arabs and then you claim Arab were Aryan
well neither sumer nor Babylon or egypt were Aryan and certainly arabs are not Aryan they are pure 
Semite.

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## Surenas

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Who denied those Persian speaking scientists who were born in central Asia? they contributed but didn't do even some of what Arabs did, so thats why they have Arab names and wrote their books in Arabic.



You just look at this!



> *As Ibn Khaldun, the fourteenth century Arab historiographer and sociologist suggests, it is a remarkable fact that with few exceptions, most Muslim scholars in the intellectual sciences were Ajams ("Persians"):*
> 
> ''Thus the founders of grammar were Sibawaih and after him, al-Farisi and Az-Zajjaj. All of them were of Persian descent&#8230; they invented rules of (Arabic) grammar &#8230; great jurists were Persians &#8230; only the Persians engaged in the task of preserving knowledge and writing systematic scholarly works. Thus the truth of the statement of the prophet becomes apparent, 'If learning were suspended in the highest parts of heaven the Persians would attain it' &#8230; The intellectual sciences were also the preserve of the Persians, left alone by the Arabs, who did not cultivate them &#8230; as was the case with all crafts &#8230; This situation continued in the cities as long as the Persians and Persian countries, Iraq, Khorasan and Transoxiana [=modern Central Asia], retained their sedentary culture.''
> &#8212;Ibn Khaldun, Muqaddimah, Translated by Franz Rosenthal (III, pp. 311-15, 271-4 [Arabic]; R.N. Frye. p. 91.

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## BLACKEAGLE

JEskandari said:


> first you claim sumer , babilon and ashur and Egypt were Arabs and then you claim Arab were Aryan
> well neither sumer nor Babylon or egypt were Aryan and certainly arabs are not Aryan they are pure
> Semite.



True, but, does that mean they are not ancestors of todays Arabs? absolutely not.


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## Surenas

Deno said:


> Please can someone tell me why Turkish rulers of Iran is posted here as they were Persians? Dude... Persians natured the some greatest scholars of Middle East but after Islam and specially after Turkic migration they didn't rule anything.... They took the rule after 20th century and until then they were ruled by Turkish people which we call Azeris thanks to USSRs assimilation policies...





> "It was this Persian Islam, rather than the original Arab Islam, that was brought to new areas and new peoples: *to the Turks*, first in Central Asia and then in the Middle East in the country which came to be called *Turkey*, and of course to India. *The Ottoman Turks brought a form of Iranian civilization to the walls of Vienna..."*



- Bernard Lewis.

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## Hack-Hook

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I don't need a quot from westerns. We are and were the victorious and we wrote the history. Its well known the the defeated side would try to distort it to hide his constant humiliating defeats throught history.



do you know at the end of Ommayed dynasty only 10% of Iranian were Muslims
and it was at 12th century that more than 90% of Iranian become Muslim.
as you see Iranian becoming Muslim have nothing to do with Arabs .

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

Deno said:


> Please can someone tell me why Turkish rulers of Iran is posted here as they were Persians? Dude... Persians natured the some greatest scholars of Middle East but after Islam and specially after Turkic migration they didn't rule anything.... They took the rule after 20th century and until then they were ruled by Turkish people which we call Azeris thanks to USSRs assimilation policies...



I know what you mean. but trust me one day persian empire will rise again!

as for your azeris, they see themselves as Iranian, do you know most Iranian here are some part azeri?
go ahead and ask them if they think they are turks lol


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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> You just look at this!



Just mention them! and show me they are the majority. Then I will mention Arab sceintists and see which side has the majority.  
All I saw is about 10 "Persian" speaking scientists and most of them were born in central Asia.


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## BLACKEAGLE

JEskandari said:


> do you know at the end of Ommayed dynasty only 10% of Iranian were Muslims
> and it was at 12th century that more than 90% of Iranian become Muslim.
> as you see Iranian becoming Muslim have nothing to do with Arabs .



HEHEHE right, right...


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## PERSIAN GOD KING

I keep saying aryan means to be Iranian. the oldest inscrption about aryans in behistoon says so.

please don't say arabs are aryans. I dont want to slit my wrist.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> Arab Aryans?


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## PERSIAN GOD KING

This thread has turned into great persian aryans v arabe soosmar khar.


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## Hack-Hook

BLACKEAGLE said:


> HEHEHE right, right...


well as a rule I'm always right
this from wiki


> Richard Bulliet's "conversion curve" indicates that only about 10% of Iran converted to Islam during the relatively Arab-centric Umayyad period. Following the Abbasid revolution of 749-51, in which Iranian converts played a major role, the Caliphate's center of gravity moved to Mesopotamia and underwent significant Iranian influences.[8] Accordingly, the Muslim population of Iran rose from approx. 40% in the mid 9th century to close to 100% by the end of 11th century.[9]



you see Iranian become Muslim under Iranian dynasties not Arabs


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## Cloakedvessel

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> persia was the first super power on this planet,



Define superpower? Why first?



> and under its reign under darius and cyrus it had almost 40-50% of the worlds population under it.



Source?



> it was a very tolerant empire. unlike others we did not force people to follow our zoroastrian religion.



There were other empires which did not force religion to their subjugated people. So nothing unique in this regard.



> christrians and islam simply took so much from zoroastrian but they will never admit it.
> the idea of a single god came from zorastrian, same with hell and heaven and devil.



Monotheism has been around much longer. The concept of one God did not originate from Zoroaster, it pre-dates him. Same with the concept of hell and heaven. A devil-like figure is also present in Ancient Egypt mythology.

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## Surenas

> *The following is a non-comprehensive list of Persian scientists and engineers that lived from antiquity up until the beginning of the modern age.*
> Contents:
> 
> *A*
> 
> Abdol-Hamid, founder of Arabic prose along with the fellow Persian Ibn Muqaffa.
> Abhari, mathematician.
> Abu Dawood, Islamic scholar.
> Ab&#363; &#7716;an&#299;fa, Islamic scholar.
> Abu Nasr e Mansur, mathematician.
> Abu Sa'id al-Darir al-Jurajani
> Abu Wafa Buzjani, mathematician.
> Azod al-Dowleh, prominent scientific patron
> Ahmad ibn Farrokh, physician.
> Ahmad Ibn Imad ul-din, physician and chemist.
> Ala'eddin, constructed the Counterweight Trebuchet for Kubilai. He was thus honoured in the official history of China's Yuan Dynasty. (p119)
> Alavi Shirazi, royal physician to India.
> Alhazen, or Ebne Heisam in Persian.
> Amuli, Muhammad ibn Mahmud, physician.
> Ab&#363; Ja'far al-Kh&#257;zin
> Ansari, Khwaja Abdullah, Islamic scholar.
> An Shihkao
> Aqa-Kermani, physician.
> Aqsara'i, physician.
> Arzani, Muqim, physician.
> Astarabadi, physician.
> Aufi, Muhammad, scientist and historian
> Avicenna (Ibn Sina), physician, philosopher
> Azophi, a.k.a. Abdorrahman Sufi, astronomer from Ray that invented the meridian ring.
> Ghiy&#257;th al-D&#299;n Jamsh&#299;d ibn Mas&#702;&#363;d al-K&#257;sh&#299;,astronomer and mathematician.
> Abdollah Javadi-Amoli Philosoph shia
> 
> *B*
> 
> Baghawi, Islamic scholar
> Bahai, Sheikhpoet, mathematician, and astronomer,engineer,designer,faghih(religious scientist),Architect
> Baladhuri, historian, d.892
> Balkhi, a.k.a. Albumasar, mathematician
> Balkhi, Ibn Sahl, geographer and mathematician
> Balkhi, Ibn
> Ban&#363; M&#363;s&#257; Brothers
> Barmak, Khaled, Bhuddist from Khorasan in the court of al-Mansur, initiated the Greek translation movement of the Abbasid House of Wisdom
> Bayhaqi, historian
> Behbahani, Vahid, theologian
> Ibn Bibi, historian of the Seljuks of Rum
> Biruni, astronomer and mathematician
> Bukhari, prominent Islamic scholar
> Bukhtishu, Persian Christian physician of Academy of Gundishapur
> Bukhtishu, Abdollah ibn, Christian physician in Persia
> Bukhtishu, Gabriel ibn, Christian physician
> Bukhtishu, Yuhanna, Christian physician
> Burzoe, a.k.a. Borzouyeh-i Tabib, physician of Academy of Gundishapur
> Birjandi astronomer and mathematician 16th century
> 
> *D*
> 
> D&#299;nawar&#299;, Ab&#363; &#7716;an&#299;fa, d.896, polymath
> Dinawaree, ibn Qutaybah, d.885, historian
> 
> *E*
> 
> Esfarayeni, physician
> 
> *F*
> 
> Farghani, d.880, a.k.a. Alfraganus, astronomer
> Farabi, d.950, (Al-Farabi, Pharabius), philosopher
> Kamal al-Din Farisi, d.1318, mathematician
> Fazari, Ibrahim, d.777, mathematician and astronomer
> Fazari, Mohammad, d.796, mathematician and astronomer
> Ferdowsi, d.1020, the famous poet
> Feyz Kashani, Mohsen, d.1680, theologian
> 
> *G*
> 
> Geber; Jaber ibn Hayan, d.815, chemist. Known as Geber in English.
> Gardezi, Abu Said, d.1061, geographer and historian
> Ghazali (Algazel), d.1111, philosopher
> Gilani, Hakim, d.1069, royal physician
> Gorgani, Zayn al-Din Isma&#8216;il ibn, d.1136, royal physician
> Gorgani, Abu Saeed, , astronomer and mathematician
> Gorgani, Rostam, physician
> Gorgani e Masihi, see Masihi Gorgani, d.999, Avicenn'a master
> 
> *H*
> 
> Hakim Ghulam Imam, physician
> Hakim Muhammad Mehdi Naqi, physician
> Hakim Muhammad Sharif Khan, physician
> Hakim Nishaburi, Islamic scholar
> Hallaj, Mystic-philosopher
> Haly Abbas, prominent physician
> Hamadani, Ali, physician
> Hamadani, Mir Sayyid Ali, poet and philosopher
> Hanbal, Ahmad Ibn, Islamic scholar
> Harawi, Abolfadl, astronomer of Buyid dynasty
> Harawi, Muwaffak: See Al-Muwaffak, pharmacologist
> Harawi, Muhammad ibn Yusuf, physician
> Harawi, Ali, traveller
> Majid Hassanizadeh, Professor of Hydrogeolgoy, Expertise: theories of porous media (Utrecht University, The Netherlands).[1]
> Hasani, Qavameddin, physician
> Hedayat, Habibollah, Nutritionist and Obstetrician Gynecologist
> Hessaby, Mahmoud, physician
> 
> *I*
> 
> Ibn Abi Sadiq, "The Second Hippocrates", Avicenna's disciple
> Ibn Haytham, physicist
> Ibn Khaseb, physician
> Ibn Khordadbeh, geographer
> Ibn Rustah
> Ilaqi, Yusef, Avicenna's pupil
> Ilyas, Yusef ibn, physician
> Isfahani Abol-fath, mathematician
> Ibn Sina, (Avicenna), Philosopher and Physician
> Isfahani, Jalaleddin, physician
> Isfahani, Husayn, physician
> Istakhri, geographer, gives the earliest known account of windmills
> Iranshahri,philosopher,the teacher of Muhammad Zakaria Razi.
> 
> *J*
> 
> J&#257;bir ibn Hayy&#257;n, a polymath who is considered the father of chemistry. He emphasized systematic experimentation, and did much to free alchemy from superstition and turn it into a science.
> Ja'far ibn Muhammad Abu Ma'shar al-Balkhi
> Jaghmini, physician
> Jaldaki, physician
> Juvayni, historian
> Juwayni, philosopher
> Juzjani, Abu Ubaid, physician
> Jamasb, philosopher
> 
> *K*
> 
> Karaji, mathematician
> Kashani (Kashi), mathematician
> Kashfi, Jafar, theologian
> Kazerouni, Masoud, physician
> Kermani, Iwad, physician
> Kermani, Shams-ud-Din, Islamic scholar
> Khademhosseini, Alireza, Pioneer in Biomedical and Bioengineering
> Khazeni, Abu Jafar, mathematician
> Khazeni, Abolfath, physicist
> Khayyám, Omar, poet, mathematician, and astronomer
> Khorasani, Sultan Ali, physician
> Khujandi, mathematician and astronomer
> Khwarizmi (aka Al-Khwarazmi) creator of algorithm and algebra, mathematician and astronomer
> Kushyar ibn Labban, mathematician, Nasavi's master
> Kuhi, Rostam, mathematician
> Kubra, Najmeddin
> 
> *M*
> 
> Mahani, mathematician
> Muhammad al-Fazari
> Muhammad Baqir Yazdi In the 17th century, He gave the pair of amicable numbers 9,363,584 and 9,437,056.
> Majusi, Ibn Abbas, physician
> Marvazi, astronomer and mathematician
> Marvazi, Abu Taher, philosopher
> Masawaiyh or Masuya
> Mashallah ibn Athari, of Jewish origins, from Khorasan who designed the city of Baghdad based on Firouzabad
> Masihi Gorgani, Avicenna's master
> Mirza Ali Hakim, physician
> Miskawayh, philosopher
> Mostowfi Qazvini, geographer
> Mullasadra, philosopher
> Muqaffa, Ibn, founder of Arabic prose along with Abdol-Hamid.
> bin Musa, Hasan, astronomer
> bin Musa, Ahmad, astronomer
> bin Musa, Muhammad, astronomer
> Muwaffaq, Abu mansur, pharmacologist
> Muhammad ibn Muhammad Tabrizi,philosopher
> 
> *N*
> 
> Nagawri, physician
> Nahavandi, Benjamin, Jewish scholar
> Nahavandi, Ahmad, astronomer
> Nakhshabi, physician
> Nasir Gebelli, computer scientist and video game developer
> Nasir Khusraw, scientist, Ismaili scholar, mathematician, philosopher, Traveler and poet
> Nasavi, mathematician
> Natili Tabari, physician
> Naubakht, Designer of the city of Baghdad
> Naubakht, Fadhl ibn
> Nawbakhty, Islamic scholar, philosopher
> Nawbakhti, Ruh, Islamic scholar
> Nayrizi, mathematician
> Naqshband, Baha ud-Din, philosopher
> Neishaburi, physician
> Neishaburi, prominent Islamic scholar
> Nizami Ganjavi, romantic poet
> Nurbakhshi, physician
> 
> *P*
> 
> Paul the Persian, philosopher.
> 
> *Q*
> 
> Qazi Zadeh, prominent mathematician
> Qazwini, Zakariya, physician
> Qumi, Qazi Sa&#8217;id, theologian
> Qumri, physician
> Qushayri, Abd al-Kar&#299;m ibn Haw&#257;zin, d.1074, philosopher
> 
> *R*
> 
> Razi, Amin, geographer
> Razi Amoli, Fakhreddin, philosopher
> Razi, Zakariya (Rhazes), chemist and physicist
> Razi, Najmeddin
> Rumi, Jalal ad-Din Muhammad
> Rashid-al-Din Hamadani, historian, physician and politician
> Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi, Physician
> 
> *S*
> 
> Sabzevari, Mulla Hadi, poet and philosopher
> Saghani Ostorlabi, astronomer
> Sahl, Fadl ibn
> Sahl, Shapur ibn, physician
> Salman the Persian, religion commentator, companion of Prophet Muhammad
> Samarqandi, Najibeddin, physician
> Samarqandi, Ashraf, mathematician, astronomer.
> Sarakhsi, Muhammad ibn Ahmad, Islamic scholar
> Seifzadeh, Hossein,S. Political Scientist, Iranian Studies,
> Shahrastani historian of religions
> Shahrazuri, philosopher and physician
> Shahrazuri,Ibn al-Salah, Islamic scholar
> Shaykh Tusi, famous Islamic scholar
> Shaykh Saduq, theologian
> Shirazi, Imad al-Din Mas'ud, physician
> Shirazi, Muhammad Hadi Khorasani, physician
> Shirazi, Qutbeddin, astronomer
> Shirazi, Mahmud ibn Ilyas, physician
> Shirazi, Najm al-Din Mahmud ibn Ilyas, physician
> Shirazi, Qurayshi, physician
> Shirazi, Sultan Waezin, theologian
> Sijzi, mathematician
> Sijzi, Mas'ud, physician
> Soleiman ibn Hasan, physician
> Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi: see Azophi
> Suhrawardi, Shahab al-Din, philosopher
> 
> *T*
> 
> Tabarani, Abu al-Qasim, Islamic scholar
> Tabari Amoli, prominent historian
> Tabari, Natili Amoli: See Al-Natili
> Tabari, ibn Farrukhan, astrologer and architect
> Tabari, Abul Hasan, physician.
> Tabari, Ibn Sahl, Jewish convert physician. Master of Rhazes
> Tabrizi, Maqsud Ali, physician.
> Taftazani, theologian, linguist
> Tayfur, Ibn Abi Tahir, d.893, linguist
> T&#257;riq, Yaqub ibn
> Tirmidhi, Islamic scholar
> Tunakabuni, physician
> Tughra'i, physician
> Tusi, Nizam ol-Molk, the great vizier
> Tusi, Nasireddin, mathematician, philosopher
> Tusi, Sharafeddin, mathematician
> 
> *V*
> 
> Amin al-Din Rashid al-Din Vatvat, scholar and physician.
> 
> *W*
> 
> Waqidi, historian
> 
> *Y*
> 
> Yaq&#363;b ibn T&#257;riq
> Yumn, Nazif ibn
> 
> *Z*
> 
> Zamakhshari, scholar and geographer.
> Zarrin dast, oculist.
> Zayn-e-Attar, physician
> 
> List of contemporary Iranian scientists, scholars, and engineers



List of Persian scientists and scholars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> This thread has turned into *great persian* aryans v arabe soosmar khar.



Yah, you live that dream. 

Again:







Surenas said:


> List of Persian scientists and scholars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



List of _*Persian scientists and scholars *_

I demanded them in Ummayad and Abbasied eras not *from antiquity up until the beginning of the modern age*


----------



## Surenas

Cloakedvessel said:


> Define superpower? Why first?



Persia (Iran) - First great superpower - YouTube



> Source?





> *44.5%* (50.0 million out of 112.4 million[21] in 480 BC)[22]



List of largest empires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On world population the Persian empire is the largest ever.


----------



## PERSIAN GOD KING

Cloakedvessel said:


> Define superpower? Why first?
> 
> 
> 
> Source?
> 
> 
> 
> There were other empires which did not force religion to their subjugated people. So nothing unique in this regard.
> 
> 
> 
> Monotheism has been around much longer. The concept of one God did not originate from Zoroaster, it pre-dates him. Same with the concept of hell and heaven. A devil-like figure is also present in Ancient Egypt mythology.



what stupid comment.

name me a religion that pre dates zorastriansm and prove it.
persian was a superpower whether you like it or not. definition? had 44% of all the world population under it.
List of largest empires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

first empire on the planet to extend into many continent.

so go ahead and tell me why persia was not the first superpower.
you just a fool who is jealous.


----------



## Surenas

Yeah, Arabs are Aryans! Especially Jordans!

According to Eupedia 30% of the haplogroups (Y DNA) found in Jordan are African DNA! Haha! Mongrels!

European Y-DNA haplogroups frequencies by country - Eupedia


----------



## Deno

Surenas said:


> - Bernard Lewis.



Are you saying that Ottoman way of life, understanding of state bussiness and bureaucracy which is of lack of better words immensly upgraded version of Persian bureaucracy, art and science are credited to Persians? 

Dude, Ottomans united the Islamic art and science with West and that makes them uniqe only Helenic people tried and and they couldn't sustain this more than 100-200 years which Ottomans and by that I mean Turks did that for 700 years...





PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> I know what you mean. but trust me one day persian empire will rise again!
> 
> as for your azeris, they see themselves as Iranian, do you know most Iranian here are some part azeri?
> go ahead and ask them if they think they are turks lol



Azeri Turks see themselves as Turks as much as Kurds see themselves as Turks... You need to live in Iran or talk with Azeri Turks in Iran to understand that. Azeri Turks in Iran would support the state and Persian people gainst a foreign threat but they don't see themselves as Persians and got really angry if someone claim that.


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

JEskandari said:


> well as a rule I'm always right
> this from wiki
> Richard Bulliet's "conversion curve" indicates that only about 10% of Iran converted to Islam during the relatively Arab-centric Umayyad period. Following the Abbasid revolution of 749-51, in which Iranian converts played a major role, the Caliphate's center of gravity moved to Mesopotamia and underwent significant Iranian influences.[8] Accordingly, the Muslim population of Iran rose from approx. 40% in the mid _*9th*_ century to close to *100%* by the end of *11th* century.[9]
> 
> you see Iranian become Muslim under Iranian dynasties not Arabs



*Abbasid Caliphate
**750&#8211;1258/1261&#8211;1517*
Abbasid Caliphate 750&#8211;1258


----------



## Deno

Surenas said:


> Yeah, Arabs are Aryans! Especially Jordans!
> 
> According to Eupedia 30% of the haplogroups (Y DNA) found in Jordan are African DNA! Haha! Mongrels!
> 
> European Y-DNA haplogroups frequencies by country - Eupedia



No they are not... This statements are made because Jewish people want to be the ony Semitic people.... They don't want Arabs to be seen as Semitic they want them to be seen as Persian people who adopted the semitic language... which is laughtable at best...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Surenas

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> you just a fool who is jealous.



Everybody is jealous! The Arabs claim due to her non-scientifically background Persians like Ibn Sina and the same counts for the Turks which some of them claim Khwarezmi was a Turk. How pathetic. Everybody want a tiny part of the great Persian history. Nietzsche, the greatest philosopher ever:



> "I must pay tribute to Zarathushtrâ, a Persian (einem Perser): Persians were the first who thought of history in its full entirety."

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

Deno said:


> No they are not... This statements are made because Jewish people want to be the ony Semitic people.... They don't want Arabs to be seen as Semitic they want them to be seen as Persian people who adopted the semitic language... which is laughtable at best...



he was clearly being sarcastic.



Surenas said:


> Everybody is jealous! The Arabs claim due to her non great scientifically background Persians like Ibn Sina and the same counts for the Turks which some of them claim Khwarezmi was a Turk. How pathetic. Everybody want a tiny part of the great Persian history. Nietzsche, the greatest philosopher ever:



I heard cyrus the great and darius was also an arab.
so was zoroaster. I think everyone and everything was a arab.


----------



## Deno

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> what stupid comment.
> 
> name me a religion that pre dates zorastriansm and prove it.
> persian was a superpower whether you like it or not. definition? had 44% of all the world population under it.
> List of largest empires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> first empire on the planet to extend into many continent.
> 
> so go ahead and tell me why persia was not the first superpower.
> you just a fool who is jealous.



South and East Asian people predates the Mesopotamians and that means they had the concept of religion before Mesopotamian people.

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## Hack-Hook

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Yah, you live that dream.
> 
> I like a list of s
> 
> 
> List of _*Persian scientists and scholars *_
> 
> I demanded them in Ummayad and Abbasied eras not *from antiquity up until the beginning of the modern age*


I demand you a list of scientist in Ommayed dynasty .
well the answer is that under the rule of that tyrannical and oppressive dynasty you cant find any.



BLACKEAGLE said:


> Yah, you live that dream.
> 
> I like a list of s
> 
> 
> List of _*Persian scientists and scholars *_
> 
> I demanded them in Ummayad and Abbasied eras not *from antiquity up until the beginning of the modern age*


I demand you a list of scientist in Ommayed dynasty . 
well the answer is that under the rule of that tyrannical and oppressive dynasty you cant find any.


----------



## Surenas

Deno said:


> South and East Asian people predates the Mesopotamians and that means they had the concept of religion before Mesopotamian people.



Voltaire on Turks:



> ''I wish fervently that the Turkish barbarians be chased away immediately out of the country of Xenophon, Socrates, Plato, Sophocles and Euripides. If we wanted, it could be done soon but seven crusades of superstition have been undertaken and a crusade of honour will never take place. We know almost no city built by them; they let decay the most beautiful establishments of Antiquity, they reign over ruins."


----------



## PERSIAN GOD KING

Deno said:


> South and East Asian people predates the Mesopotamians and that means they had the concept of religion before Mesopotamian people.



zorpoastrain was the first religion to properly worship a single god and believe in heaven and hell.

people who argue this facts are just stupid and arrogant.
dont just tell me they were "others". prove it bro.

there is evidence in Iran that Zoroastrian dates back to 3000bce. some say the prophet zoroaster could had been born as far as 6000bce! of course we have no evidence,


----------



## Surenas

Jean Chardin on the Persians (Iranians):



> *''The Persians are the most civilized people of the East*, and the greatest complimenters in the world. The polite men amongst them are upon a level with the politest men of Europe. Their airs [and] their countenance is very well composed; lovely, grave, majestical, and as fond as may be, they never fail complimenting one another about the precedency, either going out or coming into a house, or when they meet, but 'tis over presently. They look upon two things in our manners as very ridiculous, viz. contending so long as we do, who shall go first; and covering our head, to do honor to any man, which amongst them is a want of respect or a liberty which no body takes but with his inferiors or familiar friends. They observe the right and the left hand, but our left is their right, and so 'tis all over the east. They say, that Cyrus began first to place men on his left hand out of respect to them because that side is the weaker part of the body and the most exposed to danger.''



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Chardin


----------



## Deno

Surenas said:


> Everybody is jealous! The Arabs claim due to her non-scientifically background Persians like Ibn Sina and the same counts for the Turks which some of them claim Khwarezmi was a Turk. How pathetic. Everybody want a tiny part of the great Persian history. Nietzsche, the greatest philosopher ever:



Dude... Khwarezmi you are talking about are Turkish dynasty....

Sebük Tigin (founder of Ghaznavids)

What is known about Sebük Tigin is that he was of Turkic origin


----------



## PERSIAN GOD KING

Deno said:


> Are you saying that Ottoman way of life, understanding of state bussiness and bureaucracy which is of lack of better words immensly upgraded version of Persian bureaucracy, art and science are credited to Persians?
> 
> Dude, Ottomans united the Islamic art and science with West and that makes them uniqe only Helenic people tried and and they couldn't sustain this more than 100-200 years which Ottomans and by that I mean Turks did that for 700 years...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Azeri Turks see themselves as Turks as much as Kurds see themselves as Turks... You need to live in Iran or talk with Azeri Turks in Iran to understand that. Azeri Turks in Iran would support the state and Persian people gainst a foreign threat but they don't see themselves as Persians and got really angry if someone claim that.



WHAT THE **** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

I go Iran all the time and meet azeri all the time. all of them are as much persian as the rest of us. and love our culture. please make a video of you calling one of them a turk.
you need to go Iran and quit this BS. just because some azerbajini says something you believe them?

all of azerbajian belongs to us and so do all of kurdistan. they are nothing but iranic people.
man I am so surprised with the amount of lies you people believe.


----------



## Surenas

Mary Boyce on Zoroastrianism:



> ''Zoroastrianism is the oldest of the revealed world-religions, and it has probably had more influence on mankind, directly and indirectly, than any other single faith."



Mary Boyce, Zoroastrians: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices (London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1979, p. 1)


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

JEskandari said:


> I demand you a list of scientist in Ommayed dynasty .
> well the answer is that under the rule of that tyrannical and oppressive dynasty you cant find any.
> 
> 
> I demand you a list of scientist in Ommayed dynasty .
> well the answer is that under the rule of that tyrannical and oppressive dynasty you cant find any.


I hope that I clarified things to you. I am giong to make a complete sub in a new thread about Arab conquest of the so called "Persia". Until then, have fun revising my posts here. oh and don't forget the videos, watch them all plz .

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## Deno

Surenas said:


> Voltaire on Turks:



I respect Voltaire understanding of free speech... He was more of a libertarian than most of the politicians but he was an Turkophile... Do you want me to take him seiorusly? 

Turks by the time of Ottomans were more advanced than Persians which were under rule of another Turkish dynasty... You can't even compere the Ottomans and Safavids which were Turk or any other Iranian ruler again which were Turk...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

BLACKEAGLE said:


> *Abbasid Caliphate
> **750&#8211;1258/1261&#8211;1517*
> Abbasid Caliphate 750&#8211;1258



well if you put that fake map aside and search the sentence "Iran Muslim Dynasty " you see that since 821 when Tahir I
read the Khutba in his own name Iran was not under the control of Abbasid and then you find this interesting part



> As the power of the Abbasid caliphs diminished, a series of dynasties rose in various parts of Iran, some with considerable influence and power. Among the most important of these overlapping dynasties were the Tahirids in Khorasan (820-72); the Saffarids in Sistan (867-903); and the Samanids (875-1005), originally at Bokhara. The Samanids eventually ruled an area from central Iran to Pakistan.[19] By the early 10th century, the Abbasids almost lost control to the growing Persian faction known as the Buwayhid dynasty (934-1055). *Since much of the Abbasid administration had been Persian anyway, the Buwayhid, who were Zaidi Shia, were quietly able to assume real power in Baghdad.*
> 
> The Samanid dynasty was the first fully native dynasty to rule Iran since the Muslim conquest, and led the revival of Persian culture. The first important Persian poet after the arrival of Islam, Rudaki, was born during this era and was praised by Samanid kings. The Samanids also revived many ancient Persian festivals. Their successor, the Ghaznawids, who were of non-Iranian Turkic origin, also became instrumental in the revival of Persian


----------



## Surenas

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I hope that I clarified things to you. I am giong to make a complete sub in a new thread about Arab conquest of the so called "Persia". Until then, have fun revising my posts here. oh and don't forget the videos, watch them all plz .



Fine, I'm going to make a counter topic on the lack of non-science of Arabs and their barbaric history, where they buried their own daughters alive and everybody in Europe see them as barbaric idiots with middle-age thoughts.



Deno said:


> I respect Voltaire understanding of free speech... He was more of a libertarian than most of the politicians but he was an Turkophile... Do you want me to take him seiorusly?
> 
> Turks by the time of Ottomans were more advanced than Persians which were under rule of another Turkish dynasty... You can't even compere the Ottomans and Safavids which were Turk or any other Iranian ruler again which were Turk...



Read this: culturally Persians influenced the Turks more than any people in the world. You maybe conquered Iran, but we conquered you guys culturally:

Turko-Persian tradition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Hack-Hook

Deno said:


> Dude... Khwarezmi you are talking about are Turkish dynasty....
> 
> Sebük Tigin (founder of Ghaznavids)
> 
> What is known about Sebük Tigin is that he was of Turkic origin



not the dynasty , the person
Mu&#7717;ammad ibn M&#363;s&#257; al-Khw&#257;rizm&#299;


----------



## Deno

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> WHAT THE **** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
> 
> I go Iran all the time and meet azeri all the time. all of them are as much persian as the rest of us. and love our culture. please make a video of you calling one of them a turk.
> you need to go Iran and quit this BS. just because some zionists loving azerbajini says something you believe them?
> 
> all of azerbajian belongs to us and so do all of kurdistan. they are nothing but iranic people.
> man I am so surprised with the amount of lies you people believe.



Like I said... You need to see that before talking. Specially after the comics... Most of the Azeri Turks are comfortable with the Shia dominated sytem now because They are the ones who made Shia Islam dominate the Persia and Azerbaijan but they are not happy with the alligations of They are Persian or they are Persian originated people. You can see them on protests every year because of that. The idea of Azeri Turks being Persian originated people mainly came from Soviet historians and Iranian historians... 
Even Japanese and Korean being part of Altaic language family is more credited than that... It is state propaganda and to be blund it is funny and pathetic to some extand...



PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> zorpoastrain was the first religion to properly worship a single god and believe in heaven and hell.
> 
> people who argue this facts are just stupid and arrogant.
> dont just tell me they were "others". prove it bro.
> 
> there is evidence in Iran that Zoroastrian dates back to 3000bce. some say the prophet zoroaster could had been born as far as 6000bce! of course we have no evidence,



I said concept of religion, I didn't said concept of one god...


----------



## Surenas

Deno said:


> It is state propaganda and to be blund it is funny and pathetic to some extand...





> ''It was the latter appeal to Iranian Azerbaijanis, which, contrary to Pan-Turkist intentions, caused a small group of *Azerbaijani intellectuals to become the strongest advocates of the territorial integrity of Iran.*[26] After the constitutional revolution in Iran, a romantic nationalism was adopted by Azerbaijani Democrats as a reaction to the pan-Turkist irredentist policies threatening Iran&#8217;s territorial integrity.[26] It was during this period that Iranism and linguistic homogenization policies were proposed as a defensive nature against all others.[26] Contrary to what one might expect, *foremost among innovating this defensive nationalism were Iranian Azerbaijanis.''*



Iranian Azerbaijanis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I just have to quote this again:



> ''*The Persians are the most civilized people of the East*, and the greatest complimenters in the world. The polite men amongst them are upon a level with the politest men of Europe. Their airs [and] their countenance is very well composed; lovely, grave, majestical, and as fond as may be, they never fail complimenting one another about the precedency, either going out or coming into a house, or when they meet, but 'tis over presently. They look upon two things in our manners as very ridiculous, viz. contending so long as we do, who shall go first; and covering our head, to do honor to any man, which amongst them is a want of respect or a liberty which no body takes but with his inferiors or familiar friends. They observe the right and the left hand, but our left is their right, and so 'tis all over the east. They say, that Cyrus began first to place men on his left hand out of respect to them because that side is the weaker part of the body and the most exposed to danger.''



Jean Chardin.


----------



## Hack-Hook

About Azeri in Iran 
I'm Persian but I studied at Zanjan university 
zanjan is a dominant Azeri city in north west of Iran and what I saw is that they don't consider themselves
as Persian and they also don't consider themselves as Turk . but they certainly considered themselves as 
Iranian.


but a sad thing I saw was that slowly they were loosing their language and I saw many young generation at
the age of elementary school who could not speak Azeri


----------



## PERSIAN GOD KING

deno:

it is pathetic only in your eyes bro.
also I did not say we invented religion, I said the we were the first to used the concept of one god,devil and heaven/hell.

sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------



## Deno

Surenas said:


> Fine, I'm going to make a counter topic on the lack of non-science of Arabs and their barbaric history, where they buried their own daughters alive and everybody in Europe see them as barbaric idiots with middle-age thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> Read this: culturally Persians influenced the Turks more than any people in the world. You maybe conquered Iran, but we conquered you guys culturally:
> 
> Turko-Persian tradition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Culture and science does not belong to one nation and thats why when more advanced nations meet with less advanced nation, less advaced ones adopts others knowledge... Which Turks did and Which Turks took far and far more advaced state than Persian themselves...

Edit: Typo


----------



## Surenas

Another great quote of Jean Chardin:



> ''In Persia, the young Huguenot merchant encountered a society which he characterized as more hospitable, more civilized, and more tolerant than his native France.''



From strangers to citizens: the integration of immigrant communities in ... - Randolph Vigne, Charles Littleton, Huguenot Society of Great Britain and Ireland - Google Boeken


----------



## Deno

Surenas said:


> Iranian Azerbaijanis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I just have to quote this again:
> 
> 
> 
> Jean Chardin.



These were not done because They were not Turkish origin  they were done to counter Ottoman propaganda and influence


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> Fine, I'm going to make a counter topic on the lack of non-science of Arabs and their barbaric history, where they buried their own daughters alive and everybody in Europe see them as barbaric idiots with middle-age thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> Read this: culturally Persians influenced the Turks more than any people in the world. You maybe conquered Iran, but we conquered you guys culturally:
> 
> Turko-Persian tradition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Battle of Qadisiyah 
Was captured about 40,000 of the Persians (high class people) (Alashraf) and were sold as slaves in the markets.

Slaves.


----------



## Deno

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> deno:
> 
> it is pathetic only in your eyes bro.
> also I did not say we invented religion, I said the we were the first to used the concept of one god,devil and heaven/hell.
> 
> sorry for the misunderstanding.



No problem bro... I don't think anyone can argue against Persian influence on world history or the influence of Zoroastrianism on modern day religions and people

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## Surenas

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Battle of Qadisiyah
> Was captured about 40,000 of the Persians (high class people) (Alashraf) and were sold as slaves in the markets.
> 
> Slaves.



At least we where not slaves of the English and Ottomans!


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> At least we where not slaves of the English and Ottomans!


Yah but in your dreams..


----------



## Surenas

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Yah but in your dreams..


----------



## Cloakedvessel

Surenas said:


> Persia (Iran) - First great superpower - YouTube
> 
> List of largest empires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> On world population the Persian empire is the largest ever.



So your definition of a superpower (being the Cyrus-empire) is giving me a youtube video in which a man says 'the Persian empire is perhaps the first superpower'? The vid does have a catchy tune. I believe it's from the soundtrack of Requiem for a Dream. 

The population number on wikipedia gives a reference to one Yarshater, author of an Iranian encyclopedia. How did he or she obtained this number? Do you know how?


----------



## Deno

Surenas said:


> At least we where not slaves of the English and Ottomans!



Ottoman did not thread their own citizens as slaves in their history no muslim country did... They were slavery but it was banned to have a muslims and Ottoman citizens as slave so Arabs could not be slave in Ottoman history...

and by your logic was Persian people were slave to Arabs and Turks after Sassanids? They were not just like how Arabs were not the slaves of Ottomans and British


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## Surenas

Cloakedvessel said:


> So your definition of a superpower (being the Cyrus-empire) is giving me a youtube video in which a man says 'the Persian empire is perhaps the first superpower'? The vid does have a catchy tune. I believe it's from the soundtrack of Requiem for a Dream.
> 
> and by your logic was Persian people were slave to Arabs and Turks after Sassanids? They were not just like how Arabs were not the slaves of Ottomans and British



06:35

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QenLlFx4cCQ


----------



## Deno

Surenas said:


> 06:35
> 
> Conversations With History - Amy Chua - YouTube



What is this have to do with what you accused Turks with?


----------



## Surenas

Deno said:


> What is this have to do with what you accused Turks with?



Do you have some trouble with correct reading? Look who and what I'm quoting.


----------



## Deno

Surenas said:


> Do you have some trouble with correct reading? Look who and what I'm quoting.



You quoted me by adding ''and by your logic was Persian people were slave to Arabs and Turks after Sassanids? They were not just like how Arabs were not the slaves of Ottomans and British''


----------



## Surenas

Deno said:


> You quoted me by adding ''and by your logic was Persian people were slave to Arabs and Turks after Sassanids? They were not just like how Arabs were not the slaves of Ottomans and British''



Uuhh, no? I quoted Cloakedvessel.


----------



## Deno

Surenas said:


> Uuhh, no? I quoted Cloakedvessel.




Ths is the Cloakedvessel's post

''So your definition of a superpower (being the Cyrus-empire) is giving me a youtube video in which a man says 'the Persian empire is perhaps the first superpower'? The vid does have a catchy tune. I believe it's from the soundtrack of Requiem for a Dream. 

The population number on wikipedia gives a reference to one Yarshater, author of an Iranian encyclopedia. How did he or she obtained this number? Do you know how?''

This is my post

Ottoman did not thread their own citizens as slaves in their history no muslim country did... They were slavery but it was banned to have a muslims and Ottoman citizens as slave so Arabs could not be slave in Ottoman history...

and by your logic was Persian people were slave to Arabs and Turks after Sassanids? They were not just like how Arabs were not the slaves of Ottomans and British

You quoted this

''So your definition of a superpower (being the Cyrus-empire) is giving me a youtube video in which a man says 'the Persian empire is perhaps the first superpower'? The vid does have a catchy tune. I believe it's from the soundtrack of Requiem for a Dream. 

and by your logic was Persian people were slave to Arabs and Turks after Sassanids? They were not just like how Arabs were not the slaves of Ottomans and British''

and this part is from my post ''and by your logic was Persian people were slave to Arabs and Turks after Sassanids? They were not just like how Arabs were not the slaves of Ottomans and British''


----------



## Surenas

Deno said:


> You quoted this
> 
> ''So your definition of a superpower (being the Cyrus-empire) is giving me a youtube video in which a man says 'the Persian empire is perhaps the first superpower'? The vid does have a catchy tune. I believe it's from the soundtrack of Requiem for a Dream.
> 
> and by your logic was Persian people were slave to Arabs and Turks after Sassanids? They were not just like how Arabs were not the slaves of Ottomans and British''
> 
> and this part is from my post ''and by your logic was Persian people were slave to Arabs and Turks after Sassanids? They were not just like how Arabs were not the slaves of Ottomans and British''



Oh, sorry, I see I misquoted the second part of Cloakedvessel's text.

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

Iran and turks are good friend.

this is about Iran v some jordanian guy who DID NOT EVEN KNOW ACHEAMENIDS WERE PERSIAN.

hahahaha


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## Surenas

What I respect the Turks for is/was their tolerance behavior towards Persian (and other) culture and language. They didn't try to erase the Persian culture or language, in stead they adapted many things. The Iranian and Turkish temperament (behavior) are almost the same.

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

we have nothing against turks anyway.
we both are the main regional power even today, and we follow our interests without getting hostile.


----------



## northeast

mongol empire was the strongest empire before manchus ruled them&#65292;they are beasts &#65292;almost no one of enemies could stand before them until the even more beastly manchus&#65292;no one except manchus can rule the brutal mongols&#65292;the manchus beat the mongols by much less troop and have ruled them for hundreds of years.seriously&#65292;Nothern asian babarians were the greatest worriors.


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## Cloakedvessel

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> what stupid comment.
> 
> name me a religion that pre dates zorastriansm and prove it.
> persian was a superpower whether you like it or not. definition? had 44% of all the world population under it.
> List of largest empires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> first empire on the planet to extend into many continent.
> 
> so go ahead and tell me why persia was not the first superpower.
> you just a fool who is jealous.



I asked you a simple question to clarify your stance, and you immediately start throwing insults? Is this the so-called Persian intellectual might? Should I be jealous of an empire long gone?

Again, the figure of 40 to 50 percent of the world population housing the Persian empire from Wikipedia is highly unlikely. At that time ancient India and China (around 30 million) also had major population centers, Europe in 400 BC had a population of an estimate of 20 million. Above that, even other figures taken from Wikipedia point to a population of the Achaemenid empire as low as 10 million. The claim that 44% of the world population was located in the Persian empire around 600 BC is unfounded.

I am not jealous. The difference between you and me is I critically examine the data, while you on the other hand blindly accept Wikipedia as a credible source, which could have been edited by anyone. When you can't back up your findings, you start calling names.


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## Desert Fox

The SC said:


> *The Arabs were Aryans* who adopted a Semitic language .


The most hilarious joke on the face of the earth!!! You must surely be a really good comedian in real life.

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## Ottoman-Turk

mate im not here 24/7 last time i checked it was like 17 pages now like 30 pages thread but i will compare anyway , turkey is one of the strongest countries in europe aswell



darkinsky said:


> baseless, why do you claim such a thing?? if you want to compare,compare with europe which you so eagerly want to join



wanst one of mughal empires creators turkic?



A1Kaid said:


> Pakistan can be considered a successor of the Mughal Empire, Pakistan being the Muslim homeland of So Asia it holds the legacy of the Muslim Mughal Empire, hence I mentioned Mughals in my first post in the thread.
> 
> Even British historians agree Mughal empire was definitely one of the worlds strongest empires both militarily and economically.


----------



## Desert Fox

Surenas said:


> Do you know what I'm gonna give you? A quote from a respected man:
> 
> ''Persian-speaking Iranians made great contributions in the formation of Islamic intellectual history. *A great portion (and most of the best) of medieval Muslim philosophers, physicians, ethicists, scientists, Islamic jurists, historians, and geographers were Persian-speaking Iranians.* *[....]* A great many medieval islamic contributions to economic analysis, I will argue, were made by Persian-speaking Iranians writers: philosophers, ethicist, scientists, theologians and the writers of ''mirror of princes.''
> - Joseph. A. Schumpeter.
> 
> I'm waiting for such quotes to Arabs from respected figures. You can go search now!





*List of Persian Scientists, Scholars and their inventions/contributions:*

A
* Abdol-Hamid, founder of Arabic prose along with the fellow Persian Ibn Muqaffa.
* Abhari, mathematician.
* Abu Dawood, Islamic scholar.
* Ab&#363; &#7716;an&#299;fa, Islamic scholar.
* Abu Nasr e Mansur, mathematician.
* Abu Sa'id al-Darir al-Jurajani
* Abu Wafa Buzjani, mathematician.
* Azod al-Dowleh, prominent scientific patron
* Ahmad ibn Farrokh, physician.
* Ahmad Ibn Imad ul-din, physician and chemist.
* Ala'eddin, constructed the Counterweight Trebuchet for Kubilai. He was thus honoured in the official history of China's Yuan Dynasty. (p119)
* Alavi Shirazi, royal physician to India.
* Alhazen, or Ebne Heisam in Persian.
* Amuli, Muhammad ibn Mahmud, physician.
* Ab&#363; Ja'far al-Kh&#257;zin
* Ansari, Khwaja Abdullah, Islamic scholar.
* An Shihkao
* Aqa-Kermani, physician.
* Aqsara'i, physician.
* Arzani, Muqim, physician.
* Astarabadi, physician.
* Aufi, Muhammad, scientist and historian
* Avicenna (Ibn Sina), physician, philosopher
* Azophi, a.k.a. Abdorrahman Sufi, astronomer from Ray that invented the meridian ring.
* Ghiy&#257;th al-D&#299;n Jamsh&#299;d ibn Mas&#702;&#363;d al-K&#257;sh&#299;,astronomer and mathematician.
* Abdollah Javadi-Amoli Philosoph shia

B

* Baghawi, Islamic scholar
* Bahai, Sheikhpoet, mathematician, and astronomer,engineer,designer,faghih(religious scientist),Architect
* Baladhuri, historian, d.892
* Balkhi, a.k.a. Albumasar, mathematician
* Balkhi, Ibn Sahl, geographer and mathematician
* Balkhi, Ibn
* Ban&#363; M&#363;s&#257; Brothers
* Barmak, Khaled, Bhuddist from Khorasan in the court of al-Mansur, initiated the Greek translation movement of the Abbasid House of Wisdom
* Bayhaqi, historian
* Behbahani, Vahid, theologian
* Ibn Bibi, historian of the Seljuks of Rum
* Biruni, astronomer and mathematician
* Bukhari, prominent Islamic scholar
* Bukhtishu, Persian Christian physician of Academy of Gundishapur
* Bukhtishu, Abdollah ibn, Christian physician in Persia
* Bukhtishu, Gabriel ibn, Christian physician
* Bukhtishu, Yuhanna, Christian physician
* Burzoe, a.k.a. Borzouyeh-i Tabib, physician of Academy of Gundishapur
* Birjandi astronomer and mathematician 16th century

C

* D&#299;nawar&#299;, Ab&#363; &#7716;an&#299;fa, d.896, polymath
* Dinawaree, ibn Qutaybah, d.885, historian

[edit] E

* Esfarayeni, physician

[edit] F

* Farghani, d.880, a.k.a. Alfraganus, astronomer
* Farabi, d.950, (Al-Farabi, Pharabius), philosopher
* Kamal al-Din Farisi, d.1318, mathematician
* Fazari, Ibrahim, d.777, mathematician and astronomer
* Fazari, Mohammad, d.796, mathematician and astronomer
* Ferdowsi, d.1020, the famous poet
* Feyz Kashani, Mohsen, d.1680, theologian

[edit] G

* Geber; Jaber ibn Hayan, d.815, chemist. Known as Geber in English.
* Gardezi, Abu Said, d.1061, geographer and historian
* Ghazali (Algazel), d.1111, philosopher
* Gilani, Hakim, d.1069, royal physician
* Gorgani, Zayn al-Din Ismail ibn, d.1136, royal physician
* Gorgani, Abu Saeed, , astronomer and mathematician
* Gorgani, Rostam, physician
* Gorgani e Masihi, see Masihi Gorgani, d.999, Avicenn'a master

[edit] H

* Hakim Ghulam Imam, physician
* Hakim Muhammad Mehdi Naqi, physician
* Hakim Muhammad Sharif Khan, physician
* Hakim Nishaburi, Islamic scholar
* Hallaj, Mystic-philosopher
* Haly Abbas, prominent physician
* Hamadani, Ali, physician
* Hamadani, Mir Sayyid Ali, poet and philosopher
* Hanbal, Ahmad Ibn, Islamic scholar
* Harawi, Abolfadl, astronomer of Buyid dynasty
* Harawi, Muwaffak: See Al-Muwaffak, pharmacologist
* Harawi, Muhammad ibn Yusuf, physician
* Harawi, Ali, traveller
* Majid Hassanizadeh, Professor of Hydrogeolgoy, Expertise: theories of porous media (Utrecht University, The Netherlands).[1]
* Hasani, Qavameddin, physician
* Hedayat, Habibollah, Nutritionist and Obstetrician Gynecologist
* Hessaby, Mahmoud, physician

[edit] I

* Ibn Abi Sadiq, "The Second Hippocrates", Avicenna's disciple
* Ibn Haytham, physicist
* Ibn Khaseb, physician
* Ibn Khordadbeh, geographer
* Ibn Rustah
* Ilaqi, Yusef, Avicenna's pupil
* Ilyas, Yusef ibn, physician
* Isfahani Abol-fath, mathematician
* Ibn Sina, (Avicenna), Philosopher and Physician
* Isfahani, Jalaleddin, physician
* Isfahani, Husayn, physician
* Istakhri, geographer, gives the earliest known account of windmills
* Iranshahri,philosopher,the teacher of Muhammad Zakaria Razi.

[edit] J

* J&#257;bir ibn Hayy&#257;n, a polymath who is considered the father of chemistry. He emphasized systematic experimentation, and did much to free alchemy from superstition and turn it into a science.
* Ja'far ibn Muhammad Abu Ma'shar al-Balkhi
* Jaghmini, physician
* Jaldaki, physician
* Juvayni, historian
* Juwayni, philosopher
* Juzjani, Abu Ubaid, physician
* Jamasb, philosopher

[edit] K

* Karaji, mathematician
* Kashani (Kashi), mathematician
* Kashfi, Jafar, theologian
* Kazerouni, Masoud, physician
* Kermani, Iwad, physician
* Kermani, Shams-ud-Din, Islamic scholar
* Khademhosseini, Alireza, Pioneer in Biomedical and Bioengineering
* Khazeni, Abu Jafar, mathematician
* Khazeni, Abolfath, physicist
* Khayyám, Omar, poet, mathematician, and astronomer
* Khorasani, Sultan Ali, physician
* Khujandi, mathematician and astronomer
* Khwarizmi (aka Al-Khwarazmi) creator of algorithm and algebra, mathematician and astronomer
 * Kushyar ibn Labban, mathematician, Nasavi's master
* Kuhi, Rostam, mathematician
* Kubra, Najmeddin

[edit] M

* Mahani, mathematician
* Muhammad al-Fazari
* Muhammad Baqir Yazdi In the 17th century, He gave the pair of amicable numbers 9,363,584 and 9,437,056.
* Majusi, Ibn Abbas, physician
* Marvazi, astronomer and mathematician
* Marvazi, Abu Taher, philosopher
* Masawaiyh or Masuya
* Mashallah ibn Athari, of Jewish origins, from Khorasan who designed the city of Baghdad based on Firouzabad
* Masihi Gorgani, Avicenna's master
* Mirza Ali Hakim, physician
* Miskawayh, philosopher
* Mostowfi Qazvini, geographer
* Mullasadra, philosopher
* Muqaffa, Ibn, founder of Arabic prose along with Abdol-Hamid.
* bin Musa, Hasan, astronomer
* bin Musa, Ahmad, astronomer
* bin Musa, Muhammad, astronomer
* Muwaffaq, Abu mansur, pharmacologist
* Muhammad ibn Muhammad Tabrizi,philosopher

[edit] N

* Nagawri, physician
* Nahavandi, Benjamin, Jewish scholar
* Nahavandi, Ahmad, astronomer
* Nakhshabi, physician
* Nasir Gebelli, computer scientist and video game developer
* Nasir Khusraw, scientist, Ismaili scholar, mathematician, philosopher, Traveler and poet
* Nasavi, mathematician
* Natili Tabari, physician
* Naubakht, Designer of the city of Baghdad
* Naubakht, Fadhl ibn
* Nawbakhty, Islamic scholar, philosopher
* Nawbakhti, Ruh, Islamic scholar
* Nayrizi, mathematician
* Naqshband, Baha ud-Din, philosopher
* Neishaburi, physician
* Neishaburi, prominent Islamic scholar
* Nizami Ganjavi, romantic poet
* Nurbakhshi, physician

[edit] P

* Paul the Persian, philosopher.

[edit] Q

* Qazi Zadeh, prominent mathematician
* Qazwini, Zakariya, physician
* Qumi, Qazi Said, theologian
* Qumri, physician
* Qushayri, Abd al-Kar&#299;m ibn Haw&#257;zin, d.1074, philosopher

[edit] R

* Razi, Amin, geographer
* Razi Amoli, Fakhreddin, philosopher
* Razi, Zakariya (Rhazes), chemist and physicist
* Razi, Najmeddin
* Rumi, Jalal ad-Din Muhammad
* Rashid-al-Din Hamadani, historian, physician and politician
* Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi, Physician

[edit] S

* Sabzevari, Mulla Hadi, poet and philosopher
* Saghani Ostorlabi, astronomer
* Sahl, Fadl ibn
* Sahl, Shapur ibn, physician
* Salman the Persian, religion commentator, companion of Prophet Muhammad
* Samarqandi, Najibeddin, physician
* Samarqandi, Ashraf, mathematician, astronomer.
* Sarakhsi, Muhammad ibn Ahmad, Islamic scholar
* Seifzadeh, Hossein,S. Political Scientist, Iranian Studies,
* Shahrastani historian of religions
* Shahrazuri, philosopher and physician
* Shahrazuri,Ibn al-Salah, Islamic scholar
* Shaykh Tusi, famous Islamic scholar
* Shaykh Saduq, theologian
* Shirazi, Imad al-Din Mas'ud, physician
* Shirazi, Muhammad Hadi Khorasani, physician
* Shirazi, Qutbeddin, astronomer
* Shirazi, Mahmud ibn Ilyas, physician
* Shirazi, Najm al-Din Mahmud ibn Ilyas, physician
* Shirazi, Qurayshi, physician
* Shirazi, Sultan Waezin, theologian
* Sijzi, mathematician
* Sijzi, Mas'ud, physician
* Soleiman ibn Hasan, physician
* Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi: see Azophi
* Suhrawardi, Shahab al-Din, philosopher

[edit] T

* Tabarani, Abu al-Qasim, Islamic scholar
* Tabari Amoli, prominent historian
* Tabari, Natili Amoli: See Al-Natili
* Tabari, ibn Farrukhan, astrologer and architect
* Tabari, Abul Hasan, physician.
* Tabari, Ibn Sahl, Jewish convert physician. Master of Rhazes
* Tabrizi, Maqsud Ali, physician.
* Taftazani, theologian, linguist
* Tayfur, Ibn Abi Tahir, d.893, linguist
* T&#257;riq, Yaqub ibn
* Tirmidhi, Islamic scholar
* Tunakabuni, physician
* Tughra'i, physician
* Tusi, Nizam ol-Molk, the great vizier
* Tusi, Nasireddin, mathematician, philosopher
* Tusi, Sharafeddin, mathematician

[edit] U
[edit] V

* Amin al-Din Rashid al-Din Vatvat, scholar and physician.

[edit] W

* Waqidi, historian

[edit] Y

* Yaq&#363;b ibn T&#257;riq
* Yumn, Nazif ibn

[edit] Z

* Zamakhshari, scholar and geographer.
* Zarrin dast, oculist.
* Zayn-e-Attar, physician

[edit] See also

* List of contemporary Iranian scientists, scholars, and engineers
* Nizamiyyah
* Academy of Gundishapur
* International rankings of Iran in science and technology

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## Quasar

Presidential Seal of Turkey

It has a large 16-pointed star (the Sun, symbolizing the Republic of Turkey) in the center, which is surrounded by 16 five-pointed stars, symbolizing "16 "historic Turkish states and empires" 












Presidential Seal of Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## nalandapride

Ottoman-Turk said:


> wanst one of mughal empires creators turkic?



Mughals were mixed Turks(descendant of Taimur) and Mongol and they made Persian as court language, later on they intermarried with native Indians.

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## Desert Fox

Surenas said:


> Arab Aryans?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Aryans?



Clearly, this guy SC does not know who or what are Aryans, and Arabs are deffinitly not Aryans as he has stated in his posts.

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## Surenas

Desert Fox said:


> Clearly, this guy SC does not know who or what are Aryans, and Arabs are deffinitly not Aryans as he has stated in his posts.



Indeed. No Arab is Aryan. Aryans we have in Iran, Afghanistan, India and Pakistan. Indo-European speaking people in the M-O and Asia. And Aryans doesn't have anything to do with skin color, but rather with skull structure.

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## Inqhilab

"Yunan-o-Misr-o-Roma sab mit gaye jahan se ab tak magar hai baki naam-o-nishan hamara, kuchh baat hai ke hasti mit'ti nahin hindustan ki sadiyon raha hai dushman daur-e-zaman hamara (Greek, Egyptians and Romans have all vanished, but we are still here. There must be something special that India still exist despite the whole world against us)," - Muhammad Iqbal

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## King Solomon

If you arfe comparing empires by race, then it is the Turkish race which will beat everyone.


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## northeast

Inqhilab said:


> "Yunan-o-Misr-o-Roma sab mit gaye jahan se ab tak magar hai baki naam-o-nishan hamara, kuchh baat hai ke hasti mit'ti nahin hindustan ki sadiyon raha hai dushman daur-e-zaman hamara (Greek, Egyptians and Romans have all vanished, but we are still here. There must be something special that India still exist despite the whole world against us)," - Muhammad Iqbal


 yeah&#65292;slave of muslims&#65292;mongols and everyone&#65292;really special



S-19 said:


> If you arfe comparing empires by race, then it is the Turkish race which will beat everyone.


 
nah&#65292;mongol empire is far more stronger in military force.


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## King Solomon

northeast said:


> yeah&#65292;slave of muslims&#65292;mongols and everyone&#65292;really special
> 
> 
> 
> nah&#65292;mongol empire is far more stronger in military force.



What I meant was, many empires were founded by people who were originally Turks, many empires. Even some branches of Mongol empire was founded by Turks.


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## Surenas

S-19 said:


> If you arfe comparing empires by race, then it is the Turkish race which will beat everyone.



The most feared warriors in Central-Asia were (before the Turks) the Iranic Scythians, Sarmatians and Alans. They also mixed later with Turkic and Mongol people and actually the Huns were a mix of Turkic, Mongol and Iranic people. The Turks just came around the corner when most ancient empires were extremely weaken and were not anymore in the height of their power.


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## A1Kaid

S-19 said:


> If you arfe comparing empires by race, then it is the Turkish race which will beat everyone.



Well, even you agreed that in today's world Pakistan has the strongest military among the predominantly Muslim countries. So your contradicting yourself, unless you were just kidding with your comment. 

There is only one viable Turkic origin state, the rest are newly developed countries with little power and little economic might, so it's difficult to see how this ethnic group (not a race mind you) would defeat "everyone". Consider Azerbaijan has failed to capture NK territory from Armenia, at least have the other Turkic states manage a few victory in this day and age before making that remark.

Though it is best to stick with the strongest empires of all time, and that would definitively be the Roman Empire. No other entity, empire, nor nation can match it's profound rule, time/longevity, might, influence, and effect on Earth.


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## Surenas

A1Kaid said:


> Though it is best to stick with the strongest empires of all time, and that would definitively be the Roman Empire. No other entity, empire, nor nation can match it's profound rule, time/longevity, might, influence, and effect on Earth.



I think that when it comes on culturally the strongest empire, the Romans are indeed at number one. Military I think not. I think military the US is from 1990 the strongest country the world has ever seen.


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## Ottoman-Turk

i think the world has never seen such a huge gap the US has achieved tbh just look at every single stat they are far far far far ahead


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## Surenas

Ottoman-Turk said:


> i think the world has never seen such a huge gap the US has achieved tbh just look at every single stat they are far far far far ahead



Yeah, that's what I'm saying to. Although they are slightly losing their power, but the US from 1990 till 2006 was definitely the strongest entity the world have ever seen.


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## A1Kaid

Surenas said:


> I think that when it comes on culturally the strongest empire, the Romans are indeed at number one. Military I think not. *I think military the US is from 1990 the strongest country the world has ever seen.*



Here's my counter argument, yes US military after WW II became a super power, but so did the Soviet Union. During Rome's thousand year rule they were the most formidable super power of the greater part of their longevity. I understand there were other factions, raids, rise of Islam, and nearby empire, but nonetheless Rome (both Western and Eastern Empires/Byzantine) were supreme for the greater part of their league.

So you have to look at it comparatively, though US military strength is the greatest in the world today just a few decades ago it's power was on par relative to the Soviet Union. This is why you used the 1990 date because Soviet Union had collapsed by then. I think overall Rome economically, architecturally, culturally, artistically, militarily, territorially, linguistically, technologically, and many other factors overall is the supreme and greatest Empire the world has ever seen.

The United States is arguably a contender, though because Rome's longevity and the foundation it has laid for many other modern nations including the US I have to select it as number one. Besides, US even name's it's senior legislative chamber the Senate (a Roman concept), Capitol Hill (Roman concept), so even the United States is largely influenced by the Roman Empire's legacy.


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## Surenas

A1Kaid said:


> Here's my counter argument, yes US military after WW II became a super power, but so did the Soviet Union.



You're right, but thats also why I say after 1990. After the fall of the Sovjet Union the US was definitely the strongest entity the world had seen. They give more money to their defense than all the countries in the world together. They have the biggest military infrastructure the world have ever seen. They can hit quick and everywhere in the world they want. No other country have so many military bases spread around the world. Their (short) supply lines is also what the US make the strongest entity ever and of course their technology advance. 



> During Rome's thousand year rule they were the most formidable super power of the greater part of their longevity.



Yes and no. They couldn't defeat the Sassanid or the Parthians in the east.



> So you have to look at it comparatively, though US military strength is the greatest in the world today just a few decades ago it's power was on par relative to the Soviet Union. This is why you used the 1990 date because Soviet Union had collapsed by then. I think overall Rome economically, architecturally, culturally, artistically, militarily, territorially, linguistically, technologically, and many other factors overall is the supreme and greatest Empire the world has ever seen.



Yeah, culturally definitely, military not. But we must also remember that the Romans were majorly influenced - architecturally, culturally and technologically - by the Greeks. But I think the Roman empire is the second most strongest empire. And we have to remember also the American western cultural influence in the world.


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## Ottoman-Turk

but we also gotta remember that now its a globalized world thats why US has all this influence and strength in my opinion


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## A1Kaid

Surenas said:


> You're right, but thats also why I say after 1990. After the fall of the Sovjet Union the US was definitely the strongest entity the world had seen. They give more money to their defense than all the countries in the world together. They have the biggest military infrastructure the world have ever seen. They can hit quick and everywhere in the world they want. No other country have so many military bases spread around the world. Their (short) supply lines is also what the US make the strongest entity ever and of course their technology advance.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and no. They couldn't defeat the Sassanid or the Parthians in the east.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, culturally definitely, military not. But we must also remember that the Romans were majorly influenced - architecturally, culturally and technologically - by the Greeks. But I think the Roman empire is the second most strongest empire. And we have to remember also the American western cultural influence in the world.




I respect your opinion believe me I understand why many people would pick US.

The United States has done something unprecedented in world history. They have developed the largest amount of mass land to modern level. The United States is the combined strength of 50 states, many of these states alone would be wealthy nations by themselves and far stronger than many nations in the world today.

They have developed thousands of modern cities across the continental US. It's very overwhelming. In that sense I am proud for this country.

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## Surenas

A1Kaid said:


> I respect your opinion believe me I understand why many people would pick US.
> 
> The United States has done something unprecedented in world history. They have developed the largest amount of mass land to modern level. The United States is the combined strength of 50 states, many of these states alone would be wealthy nations by themselves and far stronger than many nations in the world today.
> 
> They have developed thousands of modern cities across the continental US. It's very overwhelming. In that sense I am proud for this country.



Exactly, and they even helped rebuilding Europe after WW2 with their Marshall Plan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan


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## IbnAlwaled

Surenas said:


> Do you know what I'm gonna give you? A quote from a respected man:
> 
> 
> 
> - Joseph. A. Schumpeter.
> 
> I'm waiting for such quotes to Arabs from respected figures. You can go search now!



Lets be precise. What does it mean to be a Persian, is it an ethnic classification or does it mean anyone who speak the Persian language. If there is an ethnicity called Persian, then you and the quote are wrong, since even half of Iran now are not considered "Persian".
If its a lingual classification then ALL of the scientists...., spoke Arabic and used Arabic in their books, so these contributions should be given to Arabs, because unlike you insecure racists European wannabees, we Arabs identify with a language, not race. At the birth of Islam we were just an ethnicity but now we encompass a group of ethnicities. 
In fact if you want to look how much influence we have on you "Persians" what ever that means, you can listen to any Persian talking, when I do that, I understand a word or two in every sentence, because its ARABIC.


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## PERSIAN GOD KING

Cloakedvessel said:


> I asked you a simple question to clarify your stance, and you immediately start throwing insults? Is this the so-called Persian intellectual might? Should I be jealous of an empire long gone?
> 
> Again, the figure of 40 to 50 percent of the world population housing the Persian empire from Wikipedia is highly unlikely. At that time ancient India and China (around 30 million) also had major population centers, Europe in 400 BC had a population of an estimate of 20 million. Above that, even other figures taken from Wikipedia point to a population of the Achaemenid empire as low as 10 million. The claim that 44% of the world population was located in the Persian empire around 600 BC is unfounded.
> 
> I am not jealous. The difference between you and me is I critically examine the data, while you on the other hand blindly accept Wikipedia as a credible source, which could have been edited by anyone. When you can't back up your findings, you start calling names.



I dont blindly follow anything.
I cant prove it to you. there are many evidence in Iran but try searchng anything on Iran on internet and you get nothing.
I find it hard to get oicture of my own home town from Iran.


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## IbnAlwaled

Surenas said:


> Thank you for that quote! You're so blind to see that that quote exactly shows the greatness of Iranian contribution/science. You thought you had me?


Finally, a Persian agreeing that Shia religion is not the religion of the ARAB Mohammed and that you invented you own religion thats a mix between Islam and fire worshiping.
Thank you



Surenas said:


> You just look at this!


Ajam means Persians and non Persians, for the thousends time, the Arabs used to call everyone living east of Iraq(Iran and stan-countries) Persians, but actually most were not.


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## IbnAlwaled

Surenas said:


> Arab Aryans?


Arabs are not Aryans, Almost every great civilization and religion was created by Semitic people. At least Semitic people can trace their ancestors back to Ibrahim, but Aryans!?! what the **** does that mean? Pale skin? In fact there is no Aryan gene.
The west has advance only because of us Arabs in Andalusia, we created the European Renascence, and the Greek and Persian civilization was a result of Babylonia(Semitic People). Also, Samur is the FIRST Civilization in THE WORLD(Semitic). Thank God I wasn't born Aryan I would have been very embarrassed.



Surenas said:


> List of Persian scientists and scholars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


LOL, ALL Arab names.


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## The SC

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> persia was the first super power on this planet, and under its reign under darius and cyrus it had almost 40-50% of the worlds population under it. it was a very tolerant empire. unlike others we did not force people to follow our zoroastrian religion.
> 
> christrians and islam simply took so much from zoroastrian but they will never admit it.
> the idea of a single god came from zorastrian, same with hell and heaven and devil.
> 
> persian was undoubtly one the greatest empires ever, even with the west today trying to downgrade it so much, we still see it as a great empire.





That is true to a certain extent, Persia took that from Sumur and Babylonia and the first monotheistic religion goes back to the Egyptian civilisation thousands of years before Persia.

Monotheism in Ancient Egypt

Monotheism was known in very early times. The Egyptian Book of the Dead demonstrates that the Egyptian people originally believed in one great God and not many. With the passage of time, each of the known attributes of the true God were personified as new and individual deities - and so, polytheism developed.

That view is well documented by the famous Egyptologist, Sir Wallis Budge, in his best-known text, The Book of the Dead. Following are statements from the Book of the Dead as to the attributes of the true God, selected from The Papyrus of Ani:

"A Hymn To Amen-Ra ... president of all the gods ... Lord of the heavens ... Lord of Truth ... maker of men; creator of beasts ... Ra, whose word is truth, the Governor of the world, the mighty one of valour, the chiefs who made the world as he made himself. His forms are more numerous than those of any god ... "Adoration be to thee, O Maker of the Gods, who hast stretched out the heavens and founded the earth! ... Lord of eternity, maker of the everlastingness ... creator of light ... He heareth the prayer of the oppressed one, he is kind of heart to him that calleth upon him, he delivereth the timid man from the oppressor ... He is the Lord of knowledge, and Wisdom is the utterance of his mouth. "He maketh the green herb whereon the cattle live, and the staff of life whereon men live. He maketh the fish to live in the rivers, and the feathered fowl in the sky. He giveth life to that which is in the egg ... "Hail to thee, O thou maker of all these things, thou ONLY ONE. In his mightiness he taketh many forms."

Wallis Budge states: "After reading the above extracts it is impossible not to conclude that the ideas of the ancient Egyptians about God were of a very exalted character, and it is clear that they made in their minds a sharp distinction between God and the "gods" ... Here then we have One God who was self-created, self-existent and almighty, who created the universe."

Other scholars have endorsed the arguments of Sir Wallis Budge, and he himself quotes others. One example is: "As a result of their studies of Egyptian texts, many of the earlier Egyptologists, e.g. Champollion-Figeac, de Rouge, Pierret and Brugsch, came to the conclusion that the dwellers in the Nile Valley, from the earliest times, believed in the existence of one God, nameless, incomprehensible, and eternal." (p.105)

Sir Flinders Petrie, the famous Egyptologist, had the same belief. In The Religion of Ancient Egypt, published by Constable, London, 1908, he wrote:

"Were the conception of a god only an evolution from such spirit worship, we should find the worship of many gods preceding the worship of one god ... What we actually find is the contrary of this, monotheism is the first stage traceable in theology ... Wherever we can trace polytheism back to its earliest stages, we find that it results from combinations of monotheism. &#8230; Each city appears to have had but one god belonging to it, to whom others were in time added. Similarly, Babylonian cities each had their supreme god, and the combinations of these and their transformations in order to form them into groups when their homes were politically united, show how essentially they were solitary deities at first." 

The Concept of Monotheism Since Ancient Times

Neo-Assyrian Empire

The religion of the Neo-Assyrian Empire, 911 BC-608 BC, sometimes called Ashurism by Assyrians today, centered around the god Assur, patron deity of the city of Assur, besides Ishtar patroness of Nineveh. Gods such as Sin, Shamash, Nisroch, Adad (Hadad), Enlil, Shulman, Dagan, Tammuz and Ninurta were also important in the Assyrian pantheon. The Assyrians adopted Eastern Rite Christianity during the course of the 1st to the 4th centuries AD (which they still retain) and the religion died out, although there is some evidence to suggest that it survived in isolated pockets well into the late Middle Ages in northern Mesopotamia/Assyria, particularly around Ashur and Harran.

The people of Mesopotamia were polytheistic Sumerian and Akkadian religions into henotheism, *a religion based on the worship of one supreme god*, but recognizing the existence of others. This was represented through the gradual takeover by Ashur of the roles of other gods, and this process runs parallel with the expansionist policies of the Assyrian Empire.[6] As the Assyrians extended their domain over other lands, they considered it important that the local peoples acknowledge the Assyrian king as the king of their lands as well. However, kingship at the time was linked very closely with the idea of divine mandate.[7] The Assyrian king, whilst not being a god himself, was acknowledged as the chief servant of the chief god, Ashur. In this manner, the king's authority was seen as absolute so long as the high priest reassured the peoples that the gods, or in the case of the henotheistic Assyrians, the God, was pleased with the current ruler.[7] For the Assyrians who lived in Assur and the surrounding lands, this system was the norm. For the conquered peoples, however, it was novel, particularly to the people of smaller city-states. In time, Assur was promoted from being the local deity of Assur to the overlord of the vast Assyrian domain,[7] with worship being conducted in his name throughout the lands of the Assyrians. With the worship of Assur across much of the Fertile Crescent, the Assyrian king could command the loyalty of his fellow servants of Assur.

Ashur, the patron deity of the city of Assur from the Late Bronze Age, was in constant rivalry with the patron deity of Babylon, Marduk.
[edit] 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamian_religion

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## IbnAlwaled

Surenas said:


> Everybody is jealous! The Arabs claim due to her non-scientifically background Persians like Ibn Sina and the same counts for the Turks which some of them claim Khwarezmi was a Turk. How pathetic. Everybody want a tiny part of the great Persian history. Nietzsche, the greatest philosopher ever:


Haven't you noticed its that you Persians are the common denominator of race wars in PDF.

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

the SC, what do you mean thousands of year before persia?

Zoroastrianism dates back to 2-3000 BCE. there was not much written civilization before that time.
this was the dawn of civilization.

have you heard of elam and jifort? we have much more civilization before cyrus the great created persis or persia.
pleas atleast try and find some info on Iran before saying such thing.


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## IbnAlwaled

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> we have nothing against turks anyway.
> we both are the main regional power even today, and we follow our interests without getting hostile.


Yea in your dreams


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## NeutralCitizen

Arab suffer from a Psychological defeat that dates back to the Mongol Invasion, the Losses of the Arab Israeli war, the loss of the Iran-Iraq war and the Iraq war. Mongols destroyed the Arabs.

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## King Solomon

The United States is indeed the greatest empire in modern timeline. Few people know that the USSR would collapse as soon as it came to power in 1917-20, had the United States not sent 700,000 tonnes of humanitarian food aid just after the revolution.


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## Serpentine

IbnAlwaled said:


> Lets be precise. What does it mean to be a Persian, is it an ethnic classification or does it mean anyone who speak the Persian language. If there is an ethnicity called Persian, then you and the quote are wrong, since even half of Iran now are not considered "Persian".
> If its a lingual classification then ALL of the scientists...., spoke Arabic and used Arabic in their books, so these contributions should be given to Arabs, because unlike you insecure racists"European wannabees", we Arabs identify with a language, not race. At the birth of Islam we were just an ethnicity but now we encompass a group of ethnicities.
> I*n fact if you want to look how much influence we have on you "Persians" what ever that means, you can listen to any Persian talking, when I do that, I understand a word or two in every sentence, because its ARABIC.*



Ok,here is a Persian poem,tell me what words do you understand:
&#1670;&#1608; &#1575;&#1586; &#1583;&#1601;&#1578;&#1585; &#1575;&#1740;&#1606; &#1583;&#1575;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606;&#1607;&#1575; &#1576;&#1587;&#1740; &#1607;&#1605;&#1740; &#1582;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583; &#1582;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1606;&#1583;&#1607; &#1576;&#1585; &#1607;&#1585; &#1705;&#1587;&#1740;
&#1580;&#1607;&#1575;&#1606; &#1583;&#1604; &#1606;&#1607;&#1575;&#1583;&#1607; &#1576;&#1583;&#1740;&#1606; &#1583;&#1575;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606; &#1607;&#1605;&#1575;&#1606; &#1576;&#1582;&#1585;&#1583;&#1575;&#1606; &#1606;&#1740;&#1586; &#1608; &#1607;&#1605; &#1585;&#1575;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606;
&#1580;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1740; &#1576;&#1740;&#1575;&#1605;&#1583; &#1711;&#1588;&#1575;&#1583;&#1607; &#1586;&#1576;&#1575;&#1606; &#1587;&#1582;&#1606; &#1711;&#1601;&#1578;&#1606; &#1582;&#1608;&#1576; &#1608; &#1591;&#1576;&#1593; &#1585;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;
&#1576;&#1607; &#1588;&#1593;&#1585; &#1570;&#1585;&#1605; &#1575;&#1740;&#1606; &#1606;&#1575;&#1605;&#1607; &#1585;&#1575; &#1711;&#1601;&#1578; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1586;&#1608; &#1588;&#1575;&#1583;&#1605;&#1575;&#1606; &#1588;&#1583; &#1583;&#1604; &#1575;&#1606;&#1580;&#1605;&#1606;
&#1580;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1740;&#1588; &#1585;&#1575; &#1582;&#1608;&#1740; &#1576;&#1583; &#1740;&#1575;&#1585; &#1576;&#1608;&#1583; &#1575;&#1576;&#1575; &#1576;&#1583; &#1607;&#1605;&#1740;&#1588;&#1607; &#1576;&#1607; &#1662;&#1740;&#1705;&#1575;&#1585; &#1576;&#1608;&#1583;
&#1576;&#1585;&#1608; &#1578;&#1575;&#1582;&#1578;&#1606; &#1705;&#1585;&#1583; &#1606;&#1575;&#1711;&#1575;&#1607; &#1605;&#1585;&#1711; &#1606;&#1607;&#1575;&#1583;&#1588; &#1576;&#1607; &#1587;&#1585; &#1576;&#1585; &#1740;&#1705;&#1740; &#1578;&#1740;&#1585;&#1607; &#1578;&#1585;&#1711;
&#1576;&#1583;&#1575;&#1606; &#1582;&#1608;&#1740; &#1576;&#1583; &#1580;&#1575;&#1606; &#1588;&#1740;&#1585;&#1740;&#1606; &#1576;&#1583;&#1575;&#1583; &#1606;&#1576;&#1583; &#1575;&#1586; &#1580;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1740;&#1588; &#1740;&#1705; &#1585;&#1608;&#1586; &#1588;&#1575;&#1583;
&#1740;&#1705;&#1575;&#1740;&#1705; &#1575;&#1586;&#1608; &#1576;&#1582;&#1578; &#1576;&#1585;&#1711;&#1588;&#1578;&#1607; &#1588;&#1583; &#1576;&#1607; &#1583;&#1587;&#1578; &#1740;&#1705;&#1740; &#1576;&#1606;&#1583;&#1607; &#1576;&#1585; &#1705;&#1588;&#1578;&#1607; &#1588;&#1583;
&#1576;&#1585;&#1601;&#1578; &#1575;&#1608; &#1608; &#1575;&#1740;&#1606; &#1606;&#1575;&#1605;&#1607; &#1606;&#1575;&#1711;&#1601;&#1578;&#1607; &#1605;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583; &#1670;&#1606;&#1575;&#1606; &#1576;&#1582;&#1578; &#1576;&#1740;&#1583;&#1575;&#1585; &#1575;&#1608; &#1582;&#1601;&#1578;&#1607; &#1605;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583;


When we say Persian,we talk about race,much of Iran's population are from Persian race (Aryan).But 55% of this population speak Persian language,there is Kurdish,Luri,Baloochi,Azeri and Arabic.From DNA studies,it has been proved that almost 90 percent of Iranian people have a lot of similarities.You got the point or not?


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## NeutralCitizen

Arab suffer from a Psychological defeat that dates back to the Mongol Invasion, the Losses of the Arab Israeli war, the loss of the Iran-Iraq war and the Iraq war. Mongols destroyed the Arabs. 

However there is no Persian empire anymore destroyed by the Arabs, Iran military today is weaker then it was during pre 1979 Ira.

All Empires fall is the final story.


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## PERSIAN GOD KING

NeutralCitizen said:


> Arab suffer from a Psychological defeat that dates back to the Mongol Invasion, the Losses of the Arab Israeli war, the loss of the Iran-Iraq war and the Iraq war. Mongols destroyed the Arabs.
> 
> However there is no Persian empire anymore destroyed by the Arabs, Iran military today is weaker then it was during pre 1979 Ira.
> 
> All Empires fall is the final story.



this is just s phase we are going through. you obviously have no idea about our history.

first the acheamenids the first super power on this planet rose, then it was the parthian, then the sassanids, and so on.

also our militry in shah era was more powerful sure but it was not our, its was all purchased.
now we actually make everything.

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## NeutralCitizen

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> this is just s phase we are going through. you obviously have no idea about our history.
> 
> first the acheamenids the first super power on this planet rose, then it was the parthian, then the sassanids, and so on.
> 
> also our militry in shah era was more powerful sure but it was not our, its was all purchased.
> now we actually make everything.



I know Iran's history well first last what does it matter it was destroyed. 
your products you make today are all inferior to that of 1979 pre


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## BLACKEAGLE

Era_923 said:


> Ok,here is a Persian poem,tell me what words do you understand:
> &#1670;&#1608; &#1575;&#1586; &#1583;&#1601;&#1578;&#1585; &#1575;&#1740;&#1606; &#1583;&#1575;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606;&#1607;&#1575; &#1576;&#1587;&#1740; &#1607;&#1605;&#1740; &#1582;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583; &#1582;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1606;&#1583;&#1607; &#1576;&#1585; &#1607;&#1585; &#1705;&#1587;&#1740;
> &#1580;&#1607;&#1575;&#1606; &#1583;&#1604; &#1606;&#1607;&#1575;&#1583;&#1607; &#1576;&#1583;&#1740;&#1606; &#1583;&#1575;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606; &#1607;&#1605;&#1575;&#1606; &#1576;&#1582;&#1585;&#1583;&#1575;&#1606; &#1606;&#1740;&#1586; &#1608; &#1607;&#1605; &#1585;&#1575;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606;
> &#1580;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1740; &#1576;&#1740;&#1575;&#1605;&#1583; &#1711;&#1588;&#1575;&#1583;&#1607; &#1586;&#1576;&#1575;&#1606; &#1587;&#1582;&#1606; &#1711;&#1601;&#1578;&#1606; &#1582;&#1608;&#1576; &#1608; &#1591;&#1576;&#1593; &#1585;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;
> &#1576;&#1607; &#1588;&#1593;&#1585; &#1570;&#1585;&#1605; &#1575;&#1740;&#1606; &#1606;&#1575;&#1605;&#1607; &#1585;&#1575; &#1711;&#1601;&#1578; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1586;&#1608; &#1588;&#1575;&#1583;&#1605;&#1575;&#1606; &#1588;&#1583; &#1583;&#1604; &#1575;&#1606;&#1580;&#1605;&#1606;
> &#1580;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1740;&#1588; &#1585;&#1575; &#1582;&#1608;&#1740; &#1576;&#1583; &#1740;&#1575;&#1585; &#1576;&#1608;&#1583; &#1575;&#1576;&#1575; &#1576;&#1583; &#1607;&#1605;&#1740;&#1588;&#1607; &#1576;&#1607; &#1662;&#1740;&#1705;&#1575;&#1585; &#1576;&#1608;&#1583;
> &#1576;&#1585;&#1608; &#1578;&#1575;&#1582;&#1578;&#1606; &#1705;&#1585;&#1583; &#1606;&#1575;&#1711;&#1575;&#1607; &#1605;&#1585;&#1711; &#1606;&#1607;&#1575;&#1583;&#1588; &#1576;&#1607; &#1587;&#1585; &#1576;&#1585; &#1740;&#1705;&#1740; &#1578;&#1740;&#1585;&#1607; &#1578;&#1585;&#1711;
> &#1576;&#1583;&#1575;&#1606; &#1582;&#1608;&#1740; &#1576;&#1583; &#1580;&#1575;&#1606; &#1588;&#1740;&#1585;&#1740;&#1606; &#1576;&#1583;&#1575;&#1583; &#1606;&#1576;&#1583; &#1575;&#1586; &#1580;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1740;&#1588; &#1740;&#1705; &#1585;&#1608;&#1586; &#1588;&#1575;&#1583;
> &#1740;&#1705;&#1575;&#1740;&#1705; &#1575;&#1586;&#1608; &#1576;&#1582;&#1578; &#1576;&#1585;&#1711;&#1588;&#1578;&#1607; &#1588;&#1583; &#1576;&#1607; &#1583;&#1587;&#1578; &#1740;&#1705;&#1740; &#1576;&#1606;&#1583;&#1607; &#1576;&#1585; &#1705;&#1588;&#1578;&#1607; &#1588;&#1583;
> &#1576;&#1585;&#1601;&#1578; &#1575;&#1608; &#1608; &#1575;&#1740;&#1606; &#1606;&#1575;&#1605;&#1607; &#1606;&#1575;&#1711;&#1601;&#1578;&#1607; &#1605;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583; &#1670;&#1606;&#1575;&#1606; &#1576;&#1582;&#1578; &#1576;&#1740;&#1583;&#1575;&#1585; &#1575;&#1608; &#1582;&#1601;&#1578;&#1607; &#1605;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583;
> 
> 
> When we say Persian,we talk about race,much of Iran's population are from Persian race (Aryan).But 55% of this population speak Persian language,there is Kurdish,Luri,Baloochi,Azeri and Arabic.From DNA studies,it has been proved that almost 90 percent of Iranian people have a lot of similarities.You got the point or not?



According to a 1957 theory by Laroche, Indo-Iranian ar-ya- descends from Proto-Indo-European (PIE) *ar-yo-, a yo-adjective to a root *ar "to assemble skillfully", present in Greek harma "chariot", Greek aristos, (as in "aristocracy"), Latin ars "art", etc. Thus, according to this theory, an Aryan is "one who skillfully assembles". Proto-Indo-Iranian *ar-ta- was a related concept of "properly joined" expressing a religious concept of cosmic order.[17]

Usage of Aryan
[edit]Scholarly usage
Indo-Iranian languages (Indo-Aryan (Indian) and Iranian)[2][6][7]
[edit]Contemporary usage
Among Hindu nationalists, the Hindu/Indian people [8][9][10]
[edit]Dated usage
The "Aryan race" taken to correspond to the original speakers of Indo-European languages and their present day descendants.[11]
within the ideology of white supremacy, the "White race", i.e., Caucasians who are native Indo-Europeans of the Western or European branch of the Indo-European peoples, as opposed to the Eastern or Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-European peoples.
[edit]Derivation of the word "Aryan"
The English word "Aryan" is borrowed from the Sanskrit word &#257;rya meaning 'Noble';[1] it was used initially as a national name to designate the worshippers of the Hindu deities and especially Indra according to Brahmanical principles (performance of sacrifice, Yajna).[1][12] The Zend airya 'venerable' and Old Persian ariya are also considered as national names.[1][13]
In colloquial English, the word has been adopted in accordance with Nazi racial theory's appropriation of the term to describe persons corresponding to the "Nordic" physical ideal of Nazi Germany (the "master race" ideology).[n 1]
In Iranian context the original self-identifier lives on in ethnic names like "Alani", "Ir".[15] Similarly, The word Iran is the Persian word for land/place of the Aryans[16](see also Iranian peoples).

*So, Persians and Indians are Aryan.*


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## NeutralCitizen

Hunnic Empire


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## PERSIAN GOD KING

the things is I say Iranian are aryan because in Iran in behistoon it says to be aryan is to be from aryan land.
then the german said being aryan is to be blond.

why do people give so much value to being aryan? I mean it sounds good but it just means to be iranian.

also did you guys know Iran mean land of aryans?


----------



## The SC

BLACKEAGLE said:


> *VERY IMPORTANT TO WATCH!
> *
> 
> Some lies here are exposed. This would be pretty embarrassing.




All in all Persian Muslim scientists were *numerous* and contributed *a hole lot* to the advancement of sciences, but on the other hand without Islam and its fairness they could not blossom and achieve that much.

List of Muslim scientists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A1Kaid

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> the things is I say Iranian are aryan because in Iran in behistoon it says to be aryan is to be from aryan land.
> then the german said being aryan is to be blond.
> 
> why do people give so much value to being aryan? I mean it sounds good but it just means to be iranian.
> 
> also did you guys know Iran mean land of aryans?




Not all Aryans are Iranic people, Kashmiris for one are Aryans and they aren't Iranic people.

Hitlers ideal version of Aryan is what we consider Nordic features blonde hair, blue eyes, tall, fair skin, broad shoulders, sharp features, and more.


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## PERSIAN GOD KING

LOL people while we're here arguing about persian achievment which were undoubtedly more than arabs in science.

the west still treats us all like crap, so why we're fighting?
the golden persian age if being forgotten. comeone man even that japanese and koreans are much more advanced than us now.
this is unacceptable.



A1Kaid said:


> Not all Aryans are Iranic people, Kashmiris for one are Aryans and they aren't Iranic people.
> 
> Hitlers ideal version of Aryan is what we consider Nordic features blonde hair, blue eyes, tall, fair skin, broad shoulders, sharp features, and more.



As I said to be aryan is to be Iranian. its nothing about what you look like.
but there are people in my country like my mother who were very blond. but that is not an definition of being an aryan.


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## BLACKEAGLE

The SC said:


> All in all Persian Muslim scientists were *numerous* and contributed *a hole lot* to the advancement of sciences, but on the other hand without Islam and its fairness they could not blossom and achieve that much.
> 
> List of Muslim scientists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Not true:
Ù&#8230;Ù&#8222;Ø*Ù&#8218;:Ù&#8218;Ø§Ø¦Ù&#8230;Ø© Ø¹Ù&#8222;Ù&#8230;Ø§Ø¡ Ø§Ù&#8222;Ø¹Ø±Ø¨ - Ù&#710;Ù&#352;Ù&#402;Ù&#352;Ø¨Ù&#352;Ø¯Ù&#352;Ø§Ø&#338; Ø§Ù&#8222;Ù&#8230;Ù&#710;Ø³Ù&#710;Ø¹Ø© Ø§Ù&#8222;Ø*Ø±Ø©
Only three of them are Persians, but were totally Arabized.


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## A1Kaid

Not all Aryans are Iranians, Iranian is a nationality not a race nor ethnic group. An Azeri in Iran isn't an Aryan but a person of ethnicity may well be Parsi both however are Iranian. To be Aryan is not confined to Iran or "Iranian" or Iranic people. Kashmiris, Kalash, Nuristanis, and NA Pakistani people are Aryan people, and yet have little to nothing to do with Iranic people.

You clearly don't understand that, you keep saying Iranian=Aryan, if it were so simple.


Though I do agree with you Arabs and Iranians are both held in negative view in the West.


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## PERSIAN GOD KING

and I keep saying the oldest insription to do with aryan is in Iran in a place called behistoon.
and according to that to be aryan is to be from Iran land or persian as it was called then.

I personally dont care, I did not have a choice to be born from persia.
being aryan is just a title and it will not make me any better as a person. it may however get to ours heads and make us think we're better than other people.


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## IbnAlwaled

Era_923 said:


> Ok,here is a Persian poem,tell me what words do you understand:
> &#1670;&#1608; &#1575;&#1586; *&#1583;&#1601;&#1578;&#1585;* &#1575;&#1740;&#1606; &#1583;&#1575;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606;&#1607;&#1575; &#1576;&#1587;&#1740; &#1607;&#1605;&#1740; &#1582;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583; &#1582;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1606;&#1583;&#1607; &#1576;&#1585; &#1607;&#1585; &#1705;&#1587;&#1740;
> &#1580;&#1607;&#1575;&#1606; &#1583;&#1604; &#1606;&#1607;&#1575;&#1583;&#1607; &#1576;&#1583;&#1740;&#1606; &#1583;&#1575;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606; &#1607;&#1605;&#1575;&#1606; &#1576;&#1582;&#1585;&#1583;&#1575;&#1606; &#1606;&#1740;&#1586; &#1608; &#1607;&#1605; &#1585;&#1575;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606;
> &#1580;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1740; &#1576;&#1740;&#1575;&#1605;&#1583; &#1711;&#1588;&#1575;&#1583;&#1607; &#1586;&#1576;&#1575;&#1606; &#1587;&#1582;&#1606; &#1711;&#1601;&#1578;&#1606; &#1582;&#1608;&#1576; &#1608; *&#1591;&#1576;&#1593;* &#1585;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;
> &#1576;&#1607; *&#1588;&#1593;&#1585;* &#1570;&#1585;&#1605; &#1575;&#1740;&#1606; &#1606;&#1575;&#1605;&#1607; &#1585;&#1575; &#1711;&#1601;&#1578; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1586;&#1608; &#1588;&#1575;&#1583;&#1605;&#1575;&#1606; &#1588;&#1583; &#1583;&#1604; &#1575;&#1606;&#1580;&#1605;&#1606;
> &#1580;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1740;&#1588; &#1585;&#1575; &#1582;&#1608;&#1740; &#1576;&#1583; &#1740;&#1575;&#1585; &#1576;&#1608;&#1583; &#1575;&#1576;&#1575; &#1576;&#1583; &#1607;&#1605;&#1740;&#1588;&#1607; &#1576;&#1607; &#1662;&#1740;&#1705;&#1575;&#1585; &#1576;&#1608;&#1583;
> &#1576;&#1585;&#1608; &#1578;&#1575;&#1582;&#1578;&#1606; &#1705;&#1585;&#1583; &#1606;&#1575;&#1711;&#1575;&#1607; &#1605;&#1585;&#1711; &#1606;&#1607;&#1575;&#1583;&#1588; &#1576;&#1607; &#1587;&#1585; &#1576;&#1585; &#1740;&#1705;&#1740; &#1578;&#1740;&#1585;&#1607; &#1578;&#1585;&#1711;
> &#1576;&#1583;&#1575;&#1606; &#1582;&#1608;&#1740; &#1576;&#1583; &#1580;&#1575;&#1606; &#1588;&#1740;&#1585;&#1740;&#1606; &#1576;&#1583;&#1575;&#1583; &#1606;&#1576;&#1583; &#1575;&#1586; &#1580;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1740;&#1588; &#1740;&#1705; &#1585;&#1608;&#1586; &#1588;&#1575;&#1583;
> &#1740;&#1705;&#1575;&#1740;&#1705; &#1575;&#1586;&#1608; *&#1576;&#1582;&#1578;* &#1576;&#1585;&#1711;&#1588;&#1578;&#1607; &#1588;&#1583; &#1576;&#1607; &#1583;&#1587;&#1578; &#1740;&#1705;&#1740; &#1576;&#1606;&#1583;&#1607; &#1576;&#1585; &#1705;&#1588;&#1578;&#1607; &#1588;&#1583;
> &#1576;&#1585;&#1601;&#1578; &#1575;&#1608; &#1608; &#1575;&#1740;&#1606; *&#1606;&#1575;&#1605;&#1607;* &#1606;&#1575;&#1711;&#1601;&#1578;&#1607; &#1605;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583; &#1670;&#1606;&#1575;&#1606; &#1576;&#1582;&#1578; &#1576;&#1740;&#1583;&#1575;&#1585; &#1575;&#1608; &#1582;&#1601;&#1578;&#1607; &#1605;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583;
> 
> 
> When we say Persian,we talk about race,much of Iran's population are from Persian race (Aryan).But 55% of this population speak Persian language,there is Kurdish,Luri,Baloochi,Azeri and Arabic.From DNA studies,it has been proved that almost 90 percent of Iranian people have a lot of similarities.You got the point or not?


As I said there is no Aryan/Persian gene.


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## PERSIAN GOD KING

IbnAlwaled said:


> As I said there is no Aryan/Persian gene.



yeah everybody is an arab. there is not such thing as aryans or iranians lol.

boro ba shutoret bazi khon arabe soosmaz khor.

try and understand that, persian is also arabic invention right?


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## IbnAlwaled

NeutralCitizen said:


> Arab suffer from a Psychological defeat that dates back to the Mongol Invasion, the Losses of the Arab Israeli war, the loss of the Iran-Iraq war and the Iraq war. Mongols destroyed the Arabs.


Only Baghdad was destroyed by the Mongols not Arabs LOL. Second The only reason for Baghdad surrendering because there was a traitor minister inside the city , he was a Shia of course and its a known fact. Arabs were the first to defeat the Mongols in the battle of Ain Jalot. We wiped out the entire Mongol Army.


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## The SC

JEskandari said:


> first you claim sumer , babilon and ashur and Egypt were Arabs and then you claim Arab were Aryan
> well neither sumer nor Babylon or egypt were Aryan and certainly arabs are not Aryan they are pure
> Semite.



That is very debatable, you can not confirm it.
Some scientists said that the Arabs were Aryans (do you own search).
Arabia was/is between Egypt to the west and Mesopotamia to the east, what do you want these people to be other than Arabs, or do you want to look at every tribe and family on its own.
Arabs were dominating mekkah, the centre of trade and worship in all the region.
There was no Arabic language(at least written) in the time of Ancient Egypt or Mesopotamia, the first Written language was found in Sumur where Iraq is today. Than there was the Aramic (or Aramaic) language from which the word Arabic was extracted.

ARA BIC, this points out to ARyan not to semetic.


----------



## The SC

JEskandari said:


> well as a rule I'm always right
> this from wiki
> 
> 
> you see Iranian become Muslim under Iranian dynasties not Arabs





So you are denying that Islam came to Persia from Arabia.


----------



## scholseys

Surenas said:


> Yeah, that's what I'm saying to. Although they are slightly losing their power, but the US from 1990 till 2006 was definitely the strongest entity the world have ever seen.



US is the strongest but not invincible if you count nukes in. Romans at their peak could have destroyed and annihilated anyone, so could the mongols and the persians.


----------



## The SC

Desert Fox said:


> The most hilarious joke on the face of the earth!!! You must surely be a really good comedian in real life.



Comic, yes but not in this instance, have a look: AR ab , AR yan.


----------



## Surenas

aazidane said:


> US is the strongest but not invincible if you count nukes in. Romans at their peak could have destroyed and annihilated anyone, so could the mongols and the persians.



Romans never really defeated the Sassanids and Parthians.



IbnAlwaled said:


> Only Baghdad was destroyed by the Mongols not Arabs LOL. Second The only reason for Baghdad surrendering because there was a traitor minister inside the city , he was a Shia of course and its a known fact. Arabs were the first to defeat the Mongols in the battle of Ain Jalot. We wiped out the entire Mongol Army.



The Mamluks defeated the Mongols in that battle, not Arabs.


----------



## The SC

Surenas said:


> Indeed. No Arab is Aryan. Aryans we have in Iran, Afghanistan, India and Pakistan. Indo-European speaking people in the M-O and Asia. And Aryans doesn't have anything to do with skin color, but rather with skull structure.



Iran is the closest neighbour of the Ar(yan)abs, so how come you have Aryans in Iran and not in Arabia.


----------



## EjazR

Ottoman-Turk said:


> This is as far as i know
> 
> 13-14th century Mongol
> 
> mid 15-17th century till 1683 Ottoman - Spain Second
> 
> France till from 1683 1812 (Napoleon)
> 
> Britian 1812 to 1880s - Germany
> 
> 1915 to present USA
> 
> ALSO WHY DOESNT THE EUROPEON COLONISERS SAY SORRY FOR ALL THE DRAINING OF OTHERS WEALTH , GENOCIDES , SLAVERY THEY DID? INSTEAD FORMING COMMENWEALTHS AND FRANCOPHONES?



I would include the Chola dynasty rule which is one of the longest ruling dynasty inhistory (300BC - 13th century) They ruled over major parts of South India, East India, presentday BD, Indonesia, Myanmar and Malaysia.
* Chola dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*


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## scholseys

The SC said:


> Iran is the closest neighbour of the Ar(yan)abs, so how come you have Aryans in Iran and not in Arabia.



No one actually knows what the "aryans" actually looked like. No concrete evidence has ever been found about their features, i think they might be black. There are folks in Bangladesh that claim to be of aryan decent. Honestly if anyone claims to be of aryan heritage, that plonker has hitler inside him and is a closet nazi.


----------



## Surenas

The SC said:


> Iran is the closest neighbour of the Ar(yan)abs, so how come you have Aryans in Iran and not in Arabia.



Because if you look on the genetics in those Arab countries the most founded haplogroup are the semitic J1 and J2, which the J1 is the Arab marker. Also a lot of African E1B1B and T haplogroup in all Arab countries.. No 'Aryan' heritage.



aazidane said:


> No one actually knows what the "aryans" actually looked like. No concrete evidence has ever been found about their features, i think they might be black. There are folks in Bangladesh that claim to be of aryan decent. Honestly if anyone claims to be of aryan heritage, that plonker has hitler inside him and is a closet nazi.



Black? You're funny. 



> Xenophon describes the Ethiopians as black, and the Persian troops as white compared to the sun-tanned skin of Greek troops. Herodotus also describes the Scythian Budini as having deep blue eyes and bright red hair.



Both Persians and Scythians belong to the Iranic (Aryan) race.


----------



## The SC

IbnAlwaled said:


> Arabs are not Aryans, Almost every great civilization and religion was created by Semitic people. At least Semitic people can trace their ancestors back to Ibrahim, but Aryans!?! what the **** does that mean? Pale skin? In fact there is no Aryan gene.
> The west has advance only because of us Arabs in Andalusia, we created the European Renascence, and the Greek and Persian civilization was a result of Babylonia(Semitic People). Also, Samur is the FIRST Civilization in THE WORLD(Semitic). Thank God I wasn't born Aryan I would have been very embarrassed.
> 
> Nothing to be ashamed of, Arabs like others in the region and beyond have intermingled with other groups and ethnicities, there were white Arabs as well as darker Arabs, even black Arabs, they certainly had something to do with Semitism and Aryanism, since the Arabs descend from Abraham and were mixed with others .
> But even the word Ar ab points some how to Ar yan or AR something.


----------



## scholseys

Surenas said:


> Because if you look on the genetics in those Arab countries the most founded haplogroup are the semitic J1 and J2, which the J1 is the Arab marker. Also a lot of African E1B1B and T haplogroup in all Arab countries.. No 'Aryan' heritage.
> 
> 
> 
> *Black? You're funny.
> *
> 
> 
> Both Persians and Scythians belong to the Iranic (Aryan) race.



Why not? no concrete proof they weren't.


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## Surenas

The SC said:


> IbnAlwaled said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are not Aryans, Almost every great civilization and religion was created by Semitic people. At least Semitic people can trace their ancestors back to Ibrahim, but Aryans!?! what the **** does that mean? Pale skin? In fact there is no Aryan gene.
> The west has advance only because of us Arabs in Andalusia, we created the European Renascence, and the Greek and Persian civilization was a result of Babylonia(Semitic People). Also, Samur is the FIRST Civilization in THE WORLD(Semitic). Thank God I wasn't born Aryan I would have been very embarrassed.
> 
> Nothing to be ashamed of, Arabs like others in the region and beyond have intermingled with other groups and ethnicities, there were white Arabs as well as darker Arabs, even black Arabs, they certainly had something to do with Semitism and Aryanism, since the Arabs descend from Abraham and were mixed with others .
> But even the word Ar ab points some how to Ar yan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs dont descend of Aryans. There is no genetic, cultural or linguistic proof for that. While if you look at countries as Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and North-India, you see a lot of similarities in all aspects. There is no anthropologic that support you bizarre and stupid statement and If you are certain of it, post your theory on this forum:
> 
> ForumBiodiversity.com » Anthropology Biodiversity Forum (ABF)
> 
> I will watch how people will only laugh.
> 
> 
> 
> aazidane said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not? no concrete proof they weren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are. All of the Aryan groups were light-skinned, ranging from blue tot black eyes and from blond, back to red hair. Non of the groups were black.
> 
> Do you Arabs know how Hitler once portrayed the Arabs? Well, like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> &#8220;lacquered half-apes who ought to be whipped&#8221;
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## scholseys

Surenas said:


> The SC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs dont descend of Aryans. There is no genetic, cultural or linguistic proof for that. While if you look at countries as Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and North-India, you see a lot of similarities in all aspects. There is no anthropologic that support you bizarre and stupid statement and If you are certain of it, post your theory on this forum:
> 
> ForumBiodiversity.com » Anthropology Biodiversity Forum (ABF)
> 
> I will watch how people will only laugh.
> 
> 
> 
> There are. All of the Aryan groups were light-skinned, ranging from blue tot black eyes and from blond, back to red hair. Non of the groups were black.
> 
> Do you Arabs know how Hitler once portrayed the Arabs? Well, like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they all descended from black africa.
Click to expand...


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## Surenas

aazidane said:


> they all descended from black africa.



So why do you see majorly difference in haplogroups between Africans and Aryans?


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## scholseys

Surenas said:


> So why do you see majorly difference in haplogroups between Africans and Aryans?



..........evolution


----------



## Surenas

aazidane said:


> ..........evolution



So don't talk nonsense about Aryans might being black.


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## scholseys

Surenas said:


> So don't talk nonsense about Aryans might being black.



better than your aryan eugenics.


----------



## Roybot

Iranians can vary a lot. I have seen Iranians who look Nordic, Iranians who look Central Asian, Iranians who look Latino, Iranians who look Indian/Pakistani, Iranians who look Arab.


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## Surenas

aazidane said:


> better than your aryan eugenics.



The truth you mean.

Here we can see the difference between the Berbers, Iranians and Arabs:

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## The SC

Persian GOD KING

I am not claiming, these are facts:

The Egyptian Civilization, 10,000 Years Older than Thought - Softpedia


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## scholseys

Surenas said:


> The truth you mean.
> 
> Here we can see the difference between the Berbers, Iranians and Arabs:



there is no such thing as a true persian look or a true arabic look. Picking 3 different blokes from 3 different teams doesnt make it a fact. You will find arabs that will look nordic and you will find arabs that look like they are from the hood, so your racist eugenics fails.


----------



## The SC

Mongols as all the ones you have mentioned were absorbed by Arabs and diluted in Islam.


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## Roybot

Surenas said:


> The truth you mean.
> 
> Here we can see the difference between the Berbers, Iranians and Arabs:



There is barely any difference

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## Surenas

aazidane said:


> there is no such thing as a true persian look or a true arabic look. Picking 3 different blokes from 3 different teams doesnt make it a fact. You will find arabs that will look nordic and you will find arabs that look like they are from the hood, so your racist eugenics fails.



Yes their is. You will find some white Arabs (mostly the Levantines, Lebanese Phoenicians and the Syrians), but very, very, small factions. And thats understandable if you look on the genetics of those countries. Iran is the most 'whitest' country of the whole Middle-East. 

Look at next to the Italians:








Roybot said:


> There is barely any difference



What? Look on the difference between the nose, shape of the face, skin-colour, eyes, cheek, etc.

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## scholseys

Surenas said:


> Yes their is. You will find some white Arabs (mostly the Levantines, Lebanese Phoenicians and the Syrians), but very, very, small factions. And thats understandable if you look on the genetics of those countries. Iran is the most 'whitest' country of the whole Middle-East.
> 
> Look at next to the Italians:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What? Look on the difference between the nose, shape of the face, skin-colour, eyes, cheek, etc.



provide the source of this graph. Still doesn't proof that blacks were not aryans.


----------



## The SC

BLACKEAGLE said:


> According to a 1957 theory by Laroche, Indo-Iranian ar-ya- descends from Proto-Indo-European (PIE) *ar-yo-, a yo-adjective to a root *ar "to assemble skillfully", present in Greek harma "chariot", Greek aristos, (as in "aristocracy"), Latin ars "art", etc. Thus, according to this theory, an Aryan is "one who skillfully assembles". Proto-Indo-Iranian *ar-ta- was a related concept of "properly joined" expressing a religious concept of cosmic order.[17]
> 
> Usage of Aryan
> [edit]Scholarly usage
> Indo-Iranian languages (Indo-Aryan (Indian) and Iranian)[2][6][7]
> [edit]Contemporary usage
> Among Hindu nationalists, the Hindu/Indian people [8][9][10]
> [edit]Dated usage
> The "Aryan race" taken to correspond to the original speakers of Indo-European languages and their present day descendants.[11]
> within the ideology of white supremacy, the "White race", i.e., Caucasians who are native Indo-Europeans of the Western or European branch of the Indo-European peoples, as opposed to the Eastern or Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-European peoples.
> [edit]Derivation of the word "Aryan"
> The English word "Aryan" is borrowed from the Sanskrit word &#257;rya meaning 'Noble';[1] it was used initially as a national name to designate the worshippers of the Hindu deities and especially Indra according to Brahmanical principles (performance of sacrifice, Yajna).[1][12] The Zend airya 'venerable' and Old Persian ariya are also considered as national names.[1][13]
> In colloquial English, the word has been adopted in accordance with Nazi racial theory's appropriation of the term to describe persons corresponding to the "Nordic" physical ideal of Nazi Germany (the "master race" ideology).[n 1]
> In Iranian context the original self-identifier lives on in ethnic names like "Alani", "Ir".[15] Similarly, The word Iran is the Persian word for land/place of the Aryans[16](see also Iranian peoples).
> 
> *So, Persians and Indians are Aryan.*




What about AR-ab ?
it will be nice to know!


----------



## Surenas

aazidane said:


> provide the source of this graph. Still doesn't proof that blacks were not aryans.



Are you freakin stupid or what? You claim that Aryans might have been blacks, so its on you to proof that. I claim they were not and I have brought my arguments in the front. And if you didn't know there is image of a ancient Indo-European Aryan:





> ''The Beauty of Loulan. A 3000-4,000 year-old mummy of a woman with red hair and Indo-European features found in the Tien Shan Mountains in northwest China. She was either a member of a proto-Iranian tribe or a proto-Celtic group that had migrated eastwards along with the proto-Iranians. The left photo is a reconstruction of how she would have appeared in life. ''



And the source for my graph was Cavalli-Sforza. You can't find it on many websites.

Aryans Immigration  - (The Circle of Ancient Iranian Studies - CAIS)©

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## scholseys

Surenas said:


> Are you freakin stupid or what? You claim that Aryans might have been blacks, so its on you to proof that. I claim they were not and I have brought my arguments in the front. And if you didn't know there is image of a ancient Indo-European Aryan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the source for my graph was Cavalli-Sforza. You can't find it on many websites.
> 
> Aryans Immigration* - (The Circle of Ancient Iranian Studies - CAIS)©



I said no one actually knows what aryans looked like, no concrete proof of their features have ever been found. Its all a guessing game.


----------



## Surenas

aazidane said:


> I said no one actually knows what aryans looked like, no concrete proof of their features have ever been found. Its all a guessing game.



Well, you're so stupid Bangladeshi that I put you on the ignore list. I don't talk with people who have the IQ of a walnut.


----------



## Roybot

Surenas said:


> What? Look on the difference between the nose, shape of the face, skin-colour, eyes, cheek, etc.



Very subtle. Not something a normal person would notice, unless you are an race/anthropology enthusiast, which am guessing you are.

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## scholseys

Surenas said:


> Well, you're so stupid Bangladeshi that I put you on the ignore list. I don't talk with people who have the IQ of a walnut.



So far you have posted pictures of random dudes, a graph showing Iranians are similar to white folks and a dead chick buried in china. Seems like you been visiting the cafes of Amsterdam a lot.

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## Surenas

Roybot said:


> Very subtle. Not something a normal person would notice, unless you are an race/anthropology enthusiast, which am guessing you are.



You're guessing is right and even a normal person could spot the differences if they walked together on some street. Well, a lot of researchers been done on Iranians:



> *Iranid race (also Irano-Afghan or Iranian race* was a term used in scientific racism for the populations native to the Iranian plateau. The Iranid type was classified as belonging to the greater Caucasian race, and was variously associated with either the Nordic or the Mediterranean subtypes, depending on the authority consulted.
> 
> Carleton S. Coon in his The Races of Europe classifies the Indo-Afghans and Irano-Afghans as Nordic, describing them as being long-faced, high-headed and nose-hooked. Bertil Lundman by contrast postulates an "Iranid" subtype of his "Eastern Mediterranean" race. Earnest Hooton in 1946 describes the "Iranian Plateau type" as distinct from the Atlanto-Mediterranean one,
> _particularly in its long, high-bridged, and boldly jutting nasal promontory. It has the same huge dolichocephalic head and massive, usually long face.The great nose may be either straight or convex, more often the latter._
> 
> According to Renato Biasutti the type was defined by:
> 
> _Brunet-white color, very dark hair and eyes, abundant pilosity; medium stature (165), slim body; very long (74) and high head with prominent occiput; long face; large and high nose with root at the level of the forehead, straight or convex spine, strongly curved nostrils (64); full lips, robust chin._
> 
> John Lawrence Angel following Coon in 1971 discusses a "Nordic-Iranian type" in the following terms:
> 
> _D1 lies between Anglo-Saxon and Keltic area norms, and D2 is the earlier pre-Bronze Age Corded form which Coon identifies. Type D3, lighter and more hawk-nosed, is transitional to the Mediterranean type B4 and to type D4 (Iranian), which is the Proto-Iranian of Vallois, Irano-Afghan of others, and Proto-Nordic of Krogman, and which is more linear and more rugged than D3 and has a more tilted chewing plane, more nasal convexity, and deeper occiput. Type D5 approximates Coon's Danubian-Halstatt and successor Central European forms._




Iranid race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## The SC

IbnAlwaled said:


> Arabs are not Aryans, Almost every great civilization and religion was created by Semitic people. At least Semitic people can trace their ancestors back to Ibrahim, but Aryans!?! what the **** does that mean? Pale skin? In fact there is no Aryan gene.
> The west has advance only because of us Arabs in Andalusia, we created the European Renascence, and the Greek and Persian civilization was a result of Babylonia(Semitic People). Also, Samur is the FIRST Civilization in THE WORLD(Semitic). Thank God I wasn't born Aryan I would have been very embarrassed.
> 
> 
> LOL, ALL Arab names.


 


Surenas said:


> The SC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs dont descend of Aryans. There is no genetic, cultural or linguistic proof for that. While if you look at countries as Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and North-India, you see a lot of similarities in all aspects. There is no anthropologic that support you bizarre and stupid statement and If you are certain of it, post your theory on this forum:
> 
> ForumBiodiversity.com » Anthropology Biodiversity Forum (ABF)
> 
> I will watch how people will only laugh.
> 
> 
> 
> There are. All of the Aryan groups were light-skinned, ranging from blue tot black eyes and from blond, back to red hair. Non of the groups were black.
> 
> Do you Arabs know how Hitler once portrayed the Arabs? Well, like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you answer this, or you are too stupid to understand: here are the facts not theory, but you are blinded by ignorance.
> 
> The word Ar ab points some how to Ar yan.
> Or Ar able lands = fertile lands = fertile crescent.
Click to expand...


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## Surenas

The SC said:


> re too stupid to understand: here are the facts not theory, but you are blinded by ignorance.
> 
> The word Ar ab points some how to Ar yan.
> Or Ar able lands = fertile lands = fertile crescent.



Haha, your whole claim is based on a similarity between two letters? No, Arab lands are not fertile crescent. That were Sumerians, Akkadians and Babylonians. They were not Arab and they never named themselves Arab.

Post a photo of yourself and then we can judge you.

http://youtu.be/3zw_KS9I3yg


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## scholseys

lol arabs and iranians fighting on who is more aryan...epic


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## darkinsky

this thread must be closed before these idiotic time waste persians, turks arabs, middle easterns start their usual glory stone age empire, or the brits how they enslaved us or other

who cares if persia arab etc other was stone age empire?? who cares?

the only sensible guys were chinese who doesnt care


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## The SC

aazidane said:


> ..........evolution



Adaptation to natural surroundings.
If there was any evolution in human History you won't see this war of words going on in this thread or Wars in general!


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## scholseys

The SC said:


> Adaptation to natural surroundings.
> If there was any evolution in human History you won't see this war of words going on in this thread or Wars in general!



Economic interests are the cause of wars. If we didn't have any race, color or religion, we'd find a different reason to make war.


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## Roybot

Surenas said:


> You're guessing is right and even a normal person could spot the differences if they walked together on some street. Well, a lot of researchers been done on Iranians:
> [/I]



I have read about all those research, but i bump into Middle Eastern looking or North Indian/Pakistanis Iranians more often than say Nordic looking Iranians.

http://dc463.*******.com/img/PdC8xVSX/s7/barobax.bmp







Look at the these three for example. Pretty random selection yeah? One with glasses looks Indian, the bald one looks Arab, the other one could pass for Indian/Pakistani.

Thing is most of the "brown" people would look white if they had pale skin. Look at Arab Albinos or Indian Albinos. They look nordic.

Look at this Albino Indian Family. Should they go around claiming to be Nordic. There might be some similarity in DNA, heck Humans and chimpanzees have like 98% similar DNA's.






Be proud of who you are. If there are two races living right next to each other for centuries there has to be mixing between the two races.

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## scholseys

Roybot said:


> I have read about all those research, but i bump into Middle Eastern looking or North Indian/Pakistanis Iranians more often than say Nordic looking Iranians.
> 
> http://dc463.*******.com/img/PdC8xVSX/s7/barobax.bmp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the these three for example. Pretty random selection yeah? One with glasses looks Indian, the bald one looks Arab, the other one could pass for Indian/Pakistani.
> 
> Thing is most of the "brown" people would look white if they had pale skin. Look at Arab Albinos or Indian Albinos. They look nordic.
> 
> Look at this Albino Indian Family. Should they go around claiming to be Nordic. There might be some similarity in DNA, heck Humans and chimpanzees have like 98% similar DNA's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be proud of who you are. If there are two races living right next to each other for centuries there has to be mixing between the two races.



Roy you had to post the gayest 3 blokes on the internet


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## The SC

NeutralCitizen said:


> Arab suffer from a Psychological defeat that dates back to the Mongol Invasion, the Losses of the Arab Israeli war, the loss of the Iran-Iraq war and the Iraq war. Mongols destroyed the Arabs.
> 
> However there is no Persian empire anymore destroyed by the Arabs, Iran military today is weaker then it was during pre 1979 Ira.
> 
> All Empires fall is the final story.



Judging from the picture you choose to depict yourself (Charles Manson), no one can doubt your white supremacist statements.

Charles Manson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



aazidane said:


> Economic interests are the cause of wars. If we didn't have any race, color or religion, we'd find a different reason to make war.



It doesn't apply in this forum, so it won't apply in real life.
You should try , the animal instinct.


----------



## IbnAlwaled

aazidane said:


> lol arabs and iranians fighting on who is more aryan...epic


Don't be an idiot, no Arab claims to be Aryan. Semites> Aryans.

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## The SC

darkinsky said:


> this thread must be closed before these idiotic time waste persians, turks arabs, middle easterns start their usual glory stone age empire, or the brits how they enslaved us or other
> 
> who cares if persia arab etc other was stone age empire?? who cares?
> 
> the only sensible guys were chinese who doesnt care



Coming from a stone age empire we can all understand your concern.


----------



## Surenas

IbnAlwaled said:


> Don't be an idiot, no Arab claims to be Aryan. Semites> Aryans.



So why almost everyone who have dealt with your guys think you are uncivilized? No one likes you, from Europe, USA to S-O Asia.


----------



## The SC

Surenas said:


> Haha, your whole claim is based on a similarity between two letters? No, Arab lands are not fertile crescent. That were Sumerians, Akkadians and Babylonians. They were not Arab and they never named themselves Arab.
> 
> Post a photo of yourself and then we can judge you.
> 
> Ancient Aryans - YouTube



Continue to prove your stupidity.

According to a 1957 theory by Laroche, Indo-Iranian ar-ya- descends from Proto-Indo-European (PIE) *ar-yo-, a yo-adjective to a root *ar "to assemble skillfully", present in Greek harma "chariot", Greek aristos, (as in "aristocracy"), Latin ars "art", etc. Thus, according to this theory, an Aryan is "one who skillfully assembles". Proto-Indo-Iranian *ar-ta- was a related concept of "properly joined" expressing a religious concept of cosmic order.[17]

"chariot"= Araba in Arabic

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## Roybot

aazidane said:


> lol arabs and iranians fighting on who is more aryan...epic



Its mostly Iranians who are always trying to prove that they are white or something. You should see them on Stormfront, showing photos of Iranian woman with make up caked on their face, looking for approval from White Supremacists all the time. Its hilarious



aazidane said:


> Roy you had to post the gayest 3 blokes on the internet



 They are a pop band.

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## Surenas

Roybot said:


> Its mostly Iranians who are always trying to prove that they are white or something. You should see them on Stormfront, showing photos of Iranian woman with make up caked on their face, looking for approval from White Supremacists all the time.



We are white and I don't need the approval for that from a bunch of rednecks.

http://youtu.be/A__nkaygOYg


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## Roybot

Surenas said:


> We are white and I don't need the approval for that from a bunch of rednecks.



Yes of course you are white


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## The SC

Surenas said:


> So why almost everyone who have dealt with your guys think you are uncivilized? No one likes you, from Europe, USA to S-O Asia.



The arab civilization:

http://www.alhewar.org/ArabCivilization.htm

Or too long for you to read.
So YOU are everyone who have dealt with the Arabs or just talking (projecting) your own uncivilised manners.


----------



## scholseys

Surenas said:


> We are white and I don't need the approval for that from a bunch of rednecks.
> 
> Iran - 'the land of Aryans' - YouTube



white iranian aryan.....Every Irianian or Arab i have ever met have a sense of grandiosity about them; aka racists.


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## The SC

aazidane said:


> white iranian aryan.....Every Irianian or Arab i have ever met have a sense of grandiosity about them; aka racists.



It depends how you perceive your self and others in the first place, since that is what you attract from others.


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## scholseys

The SC said:


> It depends how you perceive your self and others in the first place, since that is what you attract from others.



fair skinned indians, pakistanis and bangladeshis could all claim to be white then


----------



## The SC

aazidane said:


> fair skinned indians, pakistanis and bangladeshis could all claim to be white then



fair skinned indians, pakistanis and bangladeshis, white or black does not matter if you are beautiful inside. That what civilisation is all about.


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## BLACKEAGLE

The SC said:


> fair skinned indians, pakistanis and bangladeshis, white or black does not matter if you are beautiful inside .


But I like white girls.


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## The SC

BLACKEAGLE said:


> But I like white girls.




Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
There are beautiful girls in every spot on earth, some white some not.
No one can compare beauties, since every kind has a different flavour and effect.

But real beauty is only manifested when it is an inside one and reflected on the outside world.
Than we see what is called charm and charisma.
Thus, real beauty attracts the eyes, the heart and the soul.
It is something divine.

That is how a strong Empire should look like too.

Islam did it ounce and can and will do it again and again.

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## yahya07

I'm flabbergasted why this thread is not yet closed.

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## A1Kaid

yahya07 said:


> I'm flabbergasted why this thread is not yet closed.


----------



## scholseys

this thread has proven that there is a nazi in a lot of folks, closet nazis.

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## ephone

The Huns got their axx kicked by the Chinese Han empire. Part of the huns moved west and finally arrived at europe. Remeber attila, the guy who ransacked europe and making the so-called roman empires (east and west) trembled like sisies. 

How about the turks? They got their axx kicked by the Chinese Tang Empire. They later had to move west as well. Part of them stayed at central asia, and part of them later formed a so-called ottoman empire.

How about the mogol empire? Well, They got defeated by Chinese Ming Empire and flee back to the desert north. 





Deno said:


> Arabs.... Romans...... Greeks.... Persians..... Huns.... Chinese....


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## ARCHON

spaniards were good in age of empires.



ephone said:


> The Huns got their axx kicked by the Chinese Han empire. Part of the huns moved west and finally arrived at europe. Remeber attila, the guy who ransacked europe and making the so-called roman empires (east and west) trembled like sisies.
> 
> How about the turks? They got their axx kicked by the Chinese Tang Empire. They later had to move west as well. Part of them stayed at central asia, and part of them later formed a so-called ottoman empire.
> 
> How about the mogol empire? Well, They got defeated by Chinese Ming Empire and flee back to the desert north.



huns were like buns..


----------



## p(-)0ENiX

I just skimped through this thread, I have got to say that there were extremely nationalistic members arguing on both sides, blatantly racist too sometimes. 

As for my own favorite empire, I would have to say its both the Greek & Roman Empire. I remember studying about them in school, everything from social life, military warfare techniques, their leaders & conquests, as well as their mythology/religion. All of it was extremely impressive.

The legend of the founding of Rome was pretty cool as well, I was pretty depressed when I learnt about their decline & fall.

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## yahya07

> This message is hidden because A1Kaid is on your ignore list.
> View Post
> 
> Remove user from ignore list



Sorry, I don't converse with Nazis.



aazidane said:


> this thread has proven that there is a nazi in a lot of folks, closet nazis.



At least we now know who they are.

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## scholseys

yahya07 said:


> Sorry, I don't converse with Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> At least we now know who they are.



lol worst part is these folks aren't even the typical 'whites'


----------



## The SC

p(-)0ENiX said:


> I just skimped through this thread, I have got to say that there were extremely nationalistic members arguing on both sides, blatantly racist too sometimes.
> 
> As for my own favorite empire, I would have to say its both the Greek & Roman Empire. I remember studying about them in school, everything from social life, military warfare techniques, their leaders & conquests, as well as their mythology/religion. All of it was extremely impressive.
> 
> The legend of the founding of Rome was pretty cool as well, I was pretty depressed when I learnt about their decline & fall.



That is exactly what westerners want you to think and feel, since in all our studies we learned that the Greek civilisation was the start of western civilisation, hiding the facts that this Greek civilisation was itself based mainly on the remnants of the Egyptian civilisation.(see the copying of the Egyptian temples, religious beliefs, myths and so on)
The first translation of the Egyptian Hieroglyphics were in Greek ! See "The Rosetta Stone"

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## The SC

aazidane said:


> this thread has proven that there is a nazi in a lot of folks, closet nazis.



Even Jews !!!

150 000 of them served Hitler!!!

WW2 150,000 Jewish Soldiers Served Hitler and the Nazis - YouTube


----------



## agentny17

A picture is worth more than a thousand word. Anicient Egypt architecture tells how great of a civilization it was, and it might be the oldest too....Also, try to apperciate what others did, it is not a bad thing actually. If the past emipres, or civilization were not great, we won't be talking about them now. Just enjoy histroy.

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## BLACKEAGLE

The SC said:


> Even Jews !!!
> 
> 150 000 of them served Hitler!!!
> 
> WW2 150,000 Jewish Soldiers Served Hitler and the Nazis - YouTube



You are just wasting your time here, those guys wouldn't read your posts or watch your videos, because they don't want to see anything else, but rather praising their own ethnicity. They wouldn't understand coz they don't want to do so.


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

Surenas said:


> So why almost everyone who have dealt with your guys think you are uncivilized? No one likes you, from Europe, USA to S-O Asia.



Do they even know you?
Man... no offence, but you need help. I thought you were posting such posts on purpose to belittle Arabs but it turned that you are serious. WAW.


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

My God! My mind is going to explode!
Some people here are just living a lie! they actually believe it!
I didn't know whether I should report or pity them but I just chose the last one.
I hope MODS just close this thread because some people scared me, they are next to our doors...


----------



## The SC

nalandapride said:


> That are the contributions of people who lived in Arab Empire but Arabs don't have contributions more than expanding empire and sea voyages. Most of the contributions are from Iranians. And regarding Mathematics and other things you are mentioning, all was copied from different civilizations, how it become Arab contributions.
> 
> *It always seems funny to we Indians that our Invention is known as Arabic Numerals.*



Sorry Mr, but you didn't nor the Persians had the "sefr' (cifer=number), or the zero (0) Arab invention, without it ,you will still be counting with some pieces of wood, and we won't be discussing anything by the mean of computers today.
The Arabic numerals unlike yours - and to the contrary of what you or you western supporters or even ignorant Muslims have swallowed in their mostly western biased studies - are based on geometrical figures, and I am not going to give you their secrets here.
If you know me, you know the secrets if you do not than you do not.


----------



## PERSIAN GOD KING

IbnAlwaled said:


> Don't be an idiot, no Arab claims to be Aryan. Semites> Aryans.



yes then by that logic

shutor>lion?



The SC said:


> Sorry Mr, but you didn't nor the Persians had the "sefr' (cifer=number), or the zero (0) Arab invention, without it ,you will still be counting with some pieces of wood, and we won't be discussing anything by the mean of computers today.
> The Arabic numerals unlike yours - and to the contrary of what you or you western supporters or even ignorant Muslims have swallowed in their mostly western biased studies - are based on geometrical figures, and I am not going to give you their secrets here.
> If you know me, you know the secrets if you do not than you do not.



once again another BS.

the mayans and babylonian had zero thousand yeas before arab.
arab stole indian numeral systems.just like you try and steal our scientists.

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## nalandapride

The SC said:


> Sorry Mr, but you didn't nor the Persians had the "sefr' (cifer=number), or the zero (0) Arab invention, without it ,you will still be counting with some pieces of wood, and we won't be discussing anything by the mean of computers today.
> The Arabic numerals unlike yours - and to the contrary of what you or you western supporters or even ignorant Muslims have swallowed in their mostly western biased studies - are based on geometrical figures, and I am not going to give you their secrets here.
> If you know me, you know the secrets if you do not than you do not.



We have a name for zero in Sanskrit known as "Shoonya" and we Indians discovered use of Zero in mathematics and Arabs copying our concept of Zero. Arabs copied our mathematics ditto that's why their script is right to left but they still write numerals left to right. 

Arabs discovered use of Zero in decimal system, what a joke.

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

nalandapride said:


> We have a name for zero in Sanskrit known as "Shoonya" and we Indians discovered use of Zero in mathematics and Arabs copying our concept of Zero. Arabs copied our mathematics ditto that's why their script is right to left but they still write numerals left to right.
> 
> Arabs discovered use of Zero in decimal system, what a joke.



did you not know arabs made everything?
how dare you question it?

persian,indians,chinese, mayan, all these civilizations were arabs.


----------



## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> Can you answer this, or you are too stupid to understand: here are the facts not theory, but you are blinded by ignorance.
> 
> The word Ar ab points some how to Ar yan.
> Or Ar able lands = fertile lands = fertile crescent.


well the word Aryan have nothing to do with being Fertile it means being Noble and have a Sanskrit root not an Aramaic root like the word Arab

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

JEskandari said:


> The SC said:
> 
> 
> 
> well the word Aryan have nothing to do with being Fertile it means being Noble and have a Sanskrit root not an Aramaic root like the word Arab
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chera ba in shutora ahmagh bas mikoni? baba veleshoon kon.
> 
> ina ahmagh hastan. low lives also.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hack-Hook

ephone said:


> The Huns got their axx kicked by the Chinese Han empire. Part of the huns moved west and finally arrived at europe. Remeber attila, the guy who ransacked europe and making the so-called roman empires (east and west) trembled like sisies.
> 
> How about the turks? They got their axx kicked by the Chinese Tang Empire. They later had to move west as well. Part of them stayed at central asia, and part of them later formed a so-called ottoman empire.
> 
> How about the mogol empire? Well, They got defeated by Chinese Ming Empire and flee back to the desert north.



didn't Chinese Yuan Empire kicked *** of Chinese Song Empire and Chinese J&#299;n Dynasty ?


----------



## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> That is exactly what westerners want you to think and feel, since in all our studies we learned that the Greek civilisation was the start of western civilisation, hiding the facts that this Greek civilisation was itself based mainly on the remnants of the Egyptian civilisation.(see the copying of the Egyptian temples, religious beliefs, myths and so on)
> The first translation of the Egyptian Hieroglyphics were in Greek ! See "The Rosetta Stone"



Rosetta stone was the key to translate Hiroglyph because it was in three language from the start and one of them was Greek that coud be used as a reference 


> The Rosetta Stone is an ancient Egyptian granodiorite stele inscribed with a decree issued at Memphis in 196 BC on behalf of King Ptolemy V. The decree appears in three scripts: the upper text is Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, the middle portion Demotic script, and the lowest Ancient Greek. Because it presents essentially the same text in all three scripts (with some minor differences between them), it provided the key to the modern understanding of Egyptian hieroglyphs.



and the first translation of Egyptian part was into french maybe because a french was the first person who could use the Greek part to decipher ancient Egyptian part


> tudy of the decree was already under way as the first full translation of the Greek text appeared in 1803. It was 20 years, however, before the decipherment of the Egyptian texts was announced by Jean-François Champollion in Paris in 1822; it took longer still before scholars were able to read other Ancient Egyptian inscriptions and literature confidently. Major advances in the decoding were: recognition that the stone offered three versions of the same text (1799); that the demotic text used phonetic characters to spell foreign names (1802); that the hieroglyphic text did so as well, and had pervasive similarities to the demotic (Thomas Young, 1814); and that, in addition to being used for foreign names, phonetic characters were also used to spell native Egyptian words (Champollion, 18221824).



and by the way Hieroglyph and ancient Egyptian language have nothing to do with Aramaic Language which both Arabic and hebrew are based upon it


----------



## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> Sorry Mr, but you didn't nor the Persians had the "sefr' (cifer=number), or the zero (0) Arab invention, without it ,you will still be counting with some pieces of wood, and we won't be discussing anything by the mean of computers today.
> The Arabic numerals unlike yours - and to the contrary of what you or you western supporters or even ignorant Muslims have swallowed in their mostly western biased studies - are based on geometrical figures, and I am not going to give you their secrets here.
> If you know me, you know the secrets if you do not than you do not.


0 (number) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

well that link above shows that zero was invented and used by many nations separately but the first nations who used it as a digit and in its exact todays concept were Mayans and Indians . 
by the way no where mentioned anything about Arabs but if you mean this 


> The Hindu-Arabic numerals and the positional number system were introduced around 500 AD, and in 825 AD, it was introduced by a Persian scientist, al-Khw&#257;rizm&#299;,[23] in his book on arithmetic. This book synthesized Greek and Hindu knowledge and also contained his own fundamental contribution to mathematics and science including an explanation of the use of zero.
> 
> It was only centuries later, in the 12th century, that the Arabic numeral system was introduced to the Western world through Latin translations of his Arithmetic.


Khw&#257;rizm&#299; was Persian and he never claimed that he invent zero he got it from India and then explained the use it can have in mathematics and then he invented Al-gebra or what we today call Algorithm

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## Ottoman-Turk

didnt the chinese get mashed by the japanese and you were treated like dogs? first wipe that embaresment of you and then talk , our ***** never got kicked we are proud of our 16 empires 



ephone said:


> The Huns got their axx kicked by the Chinese Han empire. Part of the huns moved west and finally arrived at europe. Remeber attila, the guy who ransacked europe and making the so-called roman empires (east and west) trembled like sisies.
> 
> How about the turks? They got their axx kicked by the Chinese Tang Empire. They later had to move west as well. Part of them stayed at central asia, and part of them later formed a so-called ottoman empire.
> 
> How about the mogol empire? Well, They got defeated by Chinese Ming Empire and flee back to the desert north.


----------



## p(-)0ENiX

aazidane said:


> lol worst part is these folks aren't even the typical 'whites'


 
Wait a second, did you just say "typical whites"? So you assume that only a white person is racist? Doesn't such an assumption make you racist too since you intentionally singled out that ethnicity & called them racist?

I am pretty fair skinned too, so according to you am I more likely to harbor racist feelings than yourself?

The fact is that racists exist in every nation & race on earth, as evident from this thread. In fact you yourself are a racist in my opinion for singling out whites & assuming only a white person can be racist. 

Another advice to members here is that you shouldn't assume criticism as being racism.



The SC said:


> That is exactly what westerners want you to think and feel, since in all our studies we learned that the Greek civilisation was the start of western civilisation, hiding the facts that this Greek civilisation was itself based mainly on the remnants of the Egyptian civilisation.(see the copying of the Egyptian temples, religious beliefs, myths and so on)
> The first translation of the Egyptian Hieroglyphics were in Greek ! See "The Rosetta Stone"



It doesn't matter if the Greeks were influenced by the Egyptians, you know the reverse occurred too. There isn't much similarity between the Greek Gods & the Egyptian Gods, in fact the Greek stories of their Gods & Goddesses are amazing as in Pandora's box for instance. Egyptian religion is more like a cult where Pharaoh establishes himself as supreme authority, & the remaining population obey his every command.

I am not saying there aren't any similarities between them, but that could be the case for many nations. Knowledge flows from one nation to another it all depends on how the other nations makes use of it. Even the Caliphates initially gained their knowledge & scientific advancement by studying the science & philosophy of Greek & Latin civilization, what about the Sanskrit books left over from the Vedic Aryan civilizations that were translated in to Arabic? 

Here is a quote from wikipedia:



> Much of the Hindu approach to mathematics was certainly conveyed to western Europe through Arabs . The Algebraic method formerly considered to have been invented by Al Khowarizimi can now be seen to stem from Hindu sources



Please Google the article since I am not allowed to post links, search for "hindu and buddhist contribution to science in medieval islam"

You guys may want to read up on that article, many references are present there too.

So is it fair for me to say that the Caliphates' multiple contributions were made because they too borrowed ideas from others? Of course not, all civilizations borrow knowledge, concepts & ideas from others. Many empires were like Titans at their peak, but look at their descendants today. Look at Greece, Egypt, or Iraq, all these nations had a great civilization in the past but today that's definitely not the case.

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## IbnAlwaled

p(-)0ENiX said:


> Wait a second, did you just say "typical whites"? So you assume that only a white person is racist? Doesn't such an assumption make you racist too since you intentionally singled out that ethnicity & called them racist?
> 
> I am pretty fair skinned too, so according to you am I more likely to harbor racist feelings than yourself?
> 
> The fact is that racists exist in every nation & race on earth, as evident from this thread. In fact you yourself are a racist in my opinion for singling out whites & assuming only a white person can be racist.
> 
> Another advice to members here is that you shouldn't assume criticism as being racism.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter if the Greeks were influenced by the Egyptians, you know the reverse occurred too. There isn't much similarity between the Greek Gods & the Egyptian Gods, in fact the Greek stories of their Gods & Goddesses are amazing as in Pandora's box for instance. Egyptian religion is more like a cult where Pharaoh establishes himself as supreme authority, & the remaining population obey his every command.
> 
> I am not saying there aren't any similarities between them, but that could be the case for many nations. Knowledge flows from one nation to another it all depends on how the other nations makes use of it. Even the Caliphates initially gained their knowledge & scientific advancement by studying the science & philosophy of Greek & Latin civilization, what about the Sanskrit books left over from the Vedic Aryan civilizations that were translated in to Arabic?
> 
> Here is a quote from wikipedia:
> 
> 
> 
> Please Google the article since I am not allowed to post links, search for "hindu and buddhist contribution to science in medieval islam"
> 
> You guys may want to read up on that article, many references are present there too.
> 
> So is it fair for me to say that the Caliphates' multiple contributions were made because they too borrowed ideas from others? Of course not, all civilizations borrow knowledge, concepts & ideas from others. Many empires were like Titans at their peak, but look at their descendants today. Look at Greece, Egypt, or Iraq, all these nations had a great civilization in the past but today that's definitely not the case.



Stop embarrassing your self. 
1) History shows that white Europeans take the lion share of racism.
2) There was no Latin civilization from which the Chalaifate could borrow science from. If you meant the Roman then they had no contribution to science what so ever.
3) The Greeks did not influence the Egyptians, since the Egyptians predated the Greeks by only thousands of years.
4) Babylonians also heavily influenced the Greeks.
5) you can post articles.
6) You can't change history by quoting a single author: Mu
7) So your saying its only the Muslim and middle eastern people who barrow from others, but not Europeans!! Pathetic.

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## IbnAlwaled

nalandapride said:


> We have a name for zero in Sanskrit known as "Shoonya" and we Indians discovered use of Zero in mathematics and Arabs copying our concept of Zero. Arabs copied our mathematics ditto that's why their script is right to left but they still write numerals left to right.
> 
> Arabs discovered use of Zero in decimal system, what a joke.


Stop lying you didn't invent Zero. Babylonians did: 0 (number) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also, Arabs never claimed to have invented the English numerical system used today. Moreover, creating funny symbols is not considered a significant mathematical advancement as its only makes calculations easier.

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## IbnAlwaled

The SC said:


> Surenas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you answer this, or you are too stupid to understand: here are the facts not theory, but you are blinded by ignorance.
> 
> The word Ar ab points some how to Ar yan.
> Or Ar able lands = fertile lands = fertile crescent.
> 
> 
> 
> Why haven't it crossed your mind that maybe English is not the best language to trace the origin of name Arab?
> There is a disagreement between Arab scholars for the origin of the name, but most say that its probably from Yarab:
> ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ - ÙÙÙÙØ¨ÙØ¯ÙØ§Ø Ø§ÙÙÙØ³ÙØ¹Ø© Ø§ÙØ­Ø±Ø©
Click to expand...

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## nalandapride

IbnAlwaled said:


> Stop laying you didn't invent Zero. Babylonians did: 0 (number) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Also, Arabs never claimed to have invented the English numerical system used today. Moreover, creating funny symbols is not considered a significant mathematical advancement as its only makes calculations easier.



Certainly we never copied zero from Babylonians and we Indians were first one to use zero to write numbers like 10, 100, 1000 ,....

And I think you missed this part,
_The Babylonian placeholder was not a true zero because it was not used alone. Nor was it used at the end of a number. Thus numbers like 2 and 120 (2×60), 3 and 180 (3×60), 4 and 240 (4×60), looked the same because the larger numbers lacked a final sexagesimal placeholder. Only context could differentiate them._


_The concept of zero as a number and not merely a symbol for separation is attributed to India where by the 9th century AD practical calculations were carried out using zero, which was treated like any other number, even in case of division._


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## Surenas

nalandapride said:


> Certainly we never copied zero from Babylonians and we Indians were first one to use zero to write numbers like 10, 100, 1000 ,....



You're right:

Brahmagupta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## northeast

Ottoman-Turk said:


> didnt the chinese get mashed by the japanese and you were treated like dogs? first wipe that embaresment of you and then talk , our ***** never got kicked we are proud of our 16 empires


 
A lot of chinese get killed by japanese because they have more advanced technology.we fell behind because of continous civil war.We kick their ***** twice in tang and ming dynasty.
And you fuking turk and hun sh!t get smashed by chinese.
Pathetic eastern and western turks call our emporer tengri khan(heavenly king).
You are the shame of Northern nomads,weakest nomads.
Oh I fogot that you aren't the true turk ,huns and turks were mongoloid at the first,they ruled and enslaved you and make you become turks.Even attila khan was a mongoloid.
Shame,Shame,Shame ,you pathetic turks.

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## northeast

Ottoman-Turk said:


> didnt the chinese get mashed by the japanese and you were treated like dogs? first wipe that embaresment of you and then talk , our ***** never got kicked we are proud of our 16 empires


 
Your uyghur brothers are under our rule now,why don't you come and try to save them?


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## Gold1010

Deleted.

not gonna go off topic.

@IbnAlwaled to say eurpeans have the lion share of racism is stupid.Certaintly during colonial times but now? i highly doubt it they're by far the most accepting of interracial relationships and hold large non-white european communities.

I could keep going but i dont wanna derail this thread.

How people dont consider terrorists groups as racist is beyond me.


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## IbnAlwaled

Aussie4ever said:


> Deleted.
> 
> not gonna go off topic.
> 
> @IbnAlwaled to say eurpeans have the lion share of racism is stupid.Certaintly during colonial times but now? i highly doubt it they're by far the most accepting of interracial relationships and hold large non-white european communities.
> 
> I could keep going but i dont wanna derail this thread.
> 
> How people dont consider terrorists groups as racist is beyond me.


I said history shows. You can't judge people by the past 40 years only.

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## p(-)0ENiX

IbnAlwaled said:


> Stop embarrassing your self.
> 1) History shows that white Europeans take the lion share of racism.
> 2) There was no Latin civilization from which the Chalaifate could borrow science from. If you meant the Roman then they had no contribution to science what so ever.
> 3) The Greeks did not influence the Egyptians, since the Egyptians predated the Greeks by only thousands of years.
> 4) Babylonians also heavily influenced the Greeks.
> 5) you can post articles.
> 6) You can't change history by quoting a single author: Mu
> 7) So your saying its only the Muslim and middle eastern people who barrow from others, but not Europeans!! Pathetic.


 
1. I haven't embarrassed myself one bit, racists were present among all nations. Have you forgotten about the Ancient Egyptians? Europeans are definitely not racists, there are exceptions to the rules but that applies everywhere. Judging by your posts on this thread you happen to be a racist too.
2. Yea I meant the Roman Empire, whats that? You say there are no Roman contributions to science? How about cement or concrete? As far as I know its recipe was lost after the fall of Rome but later on it was revived. How about the aqueducts? Other nations too had aqueducts but they don't compare to the Roman Empire who are also credited with having built them all across Europe & North Africa during their rule.
3. The Egyptian Coptic language uses Greek Alphabets, does that not amount to influence?

Like I said earlier I don't care about who influenced who, & I made no attempt to change history however with your racist mindset you won't be able to accept other people's contributions to mankind besides your own. 

It's either that you intentionally made a pathetic attempt at misrepresenting my views or you just can't seem to comprehend what I wrote. I never implied that *only* Muslims & Middle Easterners borrow from Europeans, my example about the caliphates *was just an example* of how knowledge flows from nation to nation & nothing more you bigoted weirdo.


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## IbnAlwaled

p(-)0ENiX said:


> 3. The Egyptian Coptic language uses Greek Alphabets, does that not amount to influence?


Example of embarrassing statements.
The original discussion was about whether Greece was the birth of Civilization, to which ANCIENT Egypt was given as a counter example. What does Egyptian Coptic have to do with any of that?.
No one is claiming that LATER on Greek culture has no influence, or that any culture didn't borrow from others.
Its you who claimed this: "the Caliphates' multiple contributions were made because they too borrowed ideas from others? Of course not, all civilizations borrow knowledge, concepts & ideas from others"/
Without stating which one leaving the Europeans to be assumed.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

> The Egyptian Coptic language uses Greek Alphabets, does that not amount to influence?


they occupiad egypt after thousands of years of egypt being the only superpower in the world but it is our civlization and our knowlage that was stolen by greeks who made them so advanced


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## p(-)0ENiX

IbnAlwaled said:


> Example of embarrassing statements.
> The original discussion was about weather Greece was the birth of Civilization, to which ANCIENT Egypt was given as a counter example. What does Egyptian Coptic have to do with any of that?.
> No one is claiming that LATER on Greek culture has no influence, or that any culture didn't borrow from others.



What's so embarrassing about that? I never claimed Ancient Greece was the birth place of civilization, nor did I claim that title belonged to Egypt. I might be wrong about this but Greece is the birth place of *advanced European civilization*. 

I never even claimed that Greece hadn't been influenced by Egypt either. Go back to my previous post #621, I claimed:



> It doesn't matter if the Greeks were influenced by the Egyptians, you know the reverse occurred too.



As its clearly legible I did not rule out the possibility of either influencing either. 

Here is your exact quote.........



> The Greeks did not influence the Egyptians, since the Egyptians predated the Greeks by only thousands of years.



You however did claim that the Greeks did not influence Egyptians & I just gave you an example of their influence over Egypt specifically the Coptic script. Now you claim that you don't deny Greek's later influence over Egypt, however in your previous post you simply stated as seen above that they didn't influence Egyptians without referring to any time frame. 



IbnAlwaled said:


> Its you who claimed this: "the Caliphates' multiple contributions were made because they too borrowed ideas from others? Of course not, all civilizations borrow knowledge, concepts & ideas from others"/
> Without stating which one leaving the Europeans to be assumed.



When I said all civilizations borrow ideas from others, I meant all is in every nation on Earth & that is extremely noticeable in today's world. Here is a quote from my original post:



> *So is it fair* for me to say that the Caliphates' multiple contributions were made because they too borrowed ideas from others? *Of course not*, all civilizations borrow knowledge, concepts & ideas from others.



Nothing in this sentence refers to Europeans. I notice that you left out the "So is it fair for me to say" from my quote. Read it again. 



Mahmoud_EGY said:


> they occupiad egypt after thousands of years of egypt being the only superpower in the world but it is our civlization and our knowlage that was stolen by greeks who made them so advanced



AHHH so you are saying that the Greeks are too stupid to come up with anything on their own is it? 

Are you really arrogant & racist enough to believe that another nation did not come to power due to their own efforts, but instead relied on Egypt alone?


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## IbnAlwaled

"The Greeks did not influence the Egyptians, since the Egyptians predated the Greeks by only thousands of years."
I meant ancient Egypt didn't borrow from Greece as they are much older.
Anyways, the point is that Europeans hate to attribute anything to others.
Fact.

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## p(-)0ENiX

IbnAlwaled said:


> "The Greeks did not influence the Egyptians, since the Egyptians predated the Greeks by only thousands of years."
> I meant ancient Egypt didn't borrow from Greece as they are much older.
> Anyways, the point is that Europeans hate to attribute anything to others.
> Fact.



Fine, I will stop discussing Ancient Egypt & Greece with you, but I don't agree with Europeans hating to attribute things to others. If that was the case then how do you explain articles like this?

How Islamic inventors changed the world - Science - News - The Independent

I don't know if the author of the article is of European origin or not, but judging by the website's address, it's a UK based website. 

There maybe some Europeans who might not like attributing things to others, but such people exist among all nations & it's wrong to generalize an entire continent the majority of which is inhabited by regular people just like us. If you read "Mahmoud_EGY"'s post he doesn't want to attribute Ancient Greece's success to them either & instead claims its all thanks to Egypt. 

I will give you another example of people who hate attributing things to others, what do you think of Afro centrists who claim Prophet Isa (Peace be upon him) was black?


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## Hack-Hook

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> they occupiad egypt after thousands of years of egypt being the only superpower in the world but it is our civlization and our knowlage that was stolen by greeks who made them so advanced



being the only super power in world is a little extreme ,at the time we don't have to much knowledge about what we had in india and china and also egypt power never exceed Jordan also at the time in Mesopotamia there was Sumerian civilization and in central Iran we had Jiroft culture which date back to early Bronze age or 3000 year B.C. and they were advanced enough to make golden eye implant and do surgery on skull and had a alphabetic writing system which were similar to the Elamite writing system
Shahr-e Sukhteh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jiroft culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Surenas

JEskandari said:


> being the only super power in world is a little extreme ,at the time we don't have to much knowledge about what we had in india and china and also egypt power never exceed Jordan also at the time in Mesopotamia there was Sumerian civilization and in central Iran we had Jiroft culture which date back to early Bronze age or 3000 year B.C. and they were advanced enough to make golden eye implant and do surgery on skull and had a alphabetic writing system which were similar to the Elamite writing system
> Shahr-e Sukhteh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Jiroft culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



World&#39;s oldest Civilization- Jiroft (Iran)- Part 1 - YouTube

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## LaBong

Avisheik said:


> Moghuls, british, afghans, etc. all tried to conquer it but they failed
> 
> Yup, but they were still unconquered by foreign invaders. That makes them awesome.
> 
> Anyway the winning side will always have some sort of advantage.


 


aazidane said:


> I dont understand why such sectarianism between the arabs and the persians. It baffles, both of them are muslims at the end of the day. Why hate each other? someone please tell me other than an arabian or a persian.
> 
> 
> 
> They probably got conquered by buddhist monks. The same buddhist monks probably came to bangladesh and tought bangla, i used to date a nepali girl in high school, it was quite striking the similarity between bangla and nepali, i could understand a lot of things she used to say, same with her when i spoke bangla.




Tibetan conquered nepal and north bengal.

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## Desert Fox

IbnAlwaled said:


> Haven't you noticed its that you Persians are the common denominator of race wars in PDF.



and you arabs are the common denominator of sectarian wars on PDF (Not only PDF but in real life as well).

This is what you arabs sound like: *"Oh, you shia's are fire worshiping fake muslims, we Saudis are the real Muslims, we will got to heaven and you will burn in hell forever"*.



IbnAlwaled said:


> Arabs are not Aryans, Almost every great civilization and religion was created by Semitic people. At least Semitic people can trace their ancestors back to Ibrahim, but Aryans!?! what the **** does that mean? Pale skin? In fact there is no Aryan gene.
> The west has advance only because of us Arabs in Andalusia, we created the European Renascence, and the Greek and Persian civilization was a result of Babylonia(Semitic People). Also, Samur is the FIRST Civilization in THE WORLD(Semitic). Thank God I wasn't born Aryan I would have been very embarrassed.


Lol, is that why your countries are the most backward and intolerant nations on earth! 

Everything you use is made by Aryans, the computer you are using right now was invented by white man. The light bulb, the Television the Automobile, the toilet, all invented by Aryans. Secondly, Aryan doesn't necessarily have to be defined by skin color, bone structure also defines Aryan.




IbnAlwaled said:


> LOL, ALL Arab names.


Wow, this is how you make yourselves happy when you don't have a proper counter argument?

Still doesn't change the fact that Iranian helped the spread of Islam more than Arabs.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

> AHHH so you are saying that the Greeks are too stupid to come up with anything on their own is it?
> 
> Are you really arrogant & racist enough to believe that another nation did not come to power due to their own efforts, but instead relied on Egypt alone?


no i said they have used our knowlage but i didnt say they are stupid they had a great civlization and you can teach a stupid man with all the knowlage in the world and he wont understand so i admit they deserved their place at the time 

i am a racist and arrogant? to love my country and say that we egyptian deserve to be the top of the world and if i had to burn the whole world to see my country great i will do it ? i dont know really but this is what i am


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## Mahmoud_EGY

JEskandari said:


> being the only super power in world is a little extreme ,at the time we don't have to much knowledge about what we had in india and china and also egypt power never exceed Jordan also at the time in Mesopotamia there was Sumerian civilization and in central Iran we had Jiroft culture which date back to early Bronze age or 3000 year B.C. and they were advanced enough to make golden eye implant and do surgery on skull and had a alphabetic writing system which were similar to the Elamite writing system
> Shahr-e Sukhteh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Jiroft culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia








the persian empire wasnt at the same time as the egyptian empire when the persian empire was at thier best in egypt was in the end of the ancient egyptian era which lasted for thousands of years but the rise and fall of empires cant be escaped even us couldnt


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## p(-)0ENiX

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> no i said they have used our knowlage but i didnt say they are stupid they had a great civlization and you can teach a stupid man with all the knowlage in the world and he wont understand so i admit they deserved their place at the time
> 
> i am a racist and arrogant? to love my country and say that we egyptian deserve to be the top of the world and if i had to burn the whole world to see my country great i will do it ? i dont know really but this is what i am


 
It's nice that you finally give credit where credit is due, however when I called you racist & arrogant I called you that when you claimed Greece was only advanced because of Egypt.

I didn't call you racist for loving your own country. In fact you should be proud of your country, I too am really proud of my ancestors regardless of who they were but that does not mean that I cannot acknowledge the greatness of others.

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## Hack-Hook

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> the persian empire wasnt at the same time as the egyptian empire when the persian empire was at thier best in egypt was in the end of the ancient egyptian era which lasted for thousands of years but the rise and fall of empires cant be escaped even us couldnt



I was not talking about Persian empire it was about Iranian civilization before Persian Empire archeological finding show an advanced in central and east of Iran that estimated expanded to Indus river and it dated back to 3000 B.C. and as I said they had a writing system that has similarities to Elamite writings and they had the first known implant (a golden eye) and there is evidence of surgery on skull . that civilization belong to 2500 year before Persian empire . also interesting aspect about those people is that it seems those people had a complete different root than the people of Mesopotamia as there is body remains that have heights about 1.8m which is far more than the people of that era.

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## Ottoman-Turk

lol you never did nothing to us , we never got ruled by anyone ever so shut your mouth, you said save uygurs , save the millions of chinese that are working worse than slaves continously and live in slums , , a billion population got smashed by japan who has one tenth of population that says it all , nothing else to say , today im happy to be turkish , have the one of the best citys in the world Istanbul , conquering many countries , not living like a slave , go and work in apple factorys and assemble things little boy , hahahah little fish




northeast said:


> A lot of chinese get killed by japanese because they have more advanced technology.we fell behind because of continous civil war.We kick their ***** twice in tang and ming dynasty.
> And you fuking turk and hun sh!t get smashed by chinese.
> Pathetic eastern and western turks call our emporer tengri khan(heavenly king).
> You are the shame of Northern nomads,weakest nomads.
> Oh I fogot that you aren't the true turk ,huns and turks were mongoloid at the first,they ruled and enslaved you and make you become turks.Even attila khan was a mongoloid.
> Shame,Shame,Shame ,you pathetic turks.


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## PERSIAN GOD KING

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> the persian empire wasnt at the same time as the egyptian empire when the persian empire was at thier best in egypt was in the end of the ancient egyptian era which lasted for thousands of years but the rise and fall of empires cant be escaped even us couldnt



Iran Elamite empire was the amongs first empires along with the ones from Iraq.
the first recorded war is even from the Iran-iraq.

Only an idiot would deny the magnificence of egyptian culture.

but did you know egyptian took their idea fro pyramds from Iran?
your first pyramid has steps, and the oldest zigurrats are from Iran.

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## scholseys

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> Iran Elamite empire was the amongs first empires along with the ones from Iraq.
> the first recorded war is even from the Iran-iraq.
> 
> Only an idiot would deny the magnificence of egyptian culture.
> 
> but did you know egyptian took their idea fro pyramds from Iran?
> 
> your first pyramid has steps, and the oldest zigurrats are from Iran.



because using steps to buildind pyramids is the easiest way to build one. Pyramids itself are the easiest tall structures to build our of any other shapes. So naturally the egyptians went for the pyramids. Pyramids are found in a lot of other places.

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## IbnAlwaled

p(-)0ENiX said:


> Fine, I will stop discussing Ancient Egypt & Greece with you, but I don't agree with Europeans hating to attribute things to others. If that was the case then how do you explain articles like this?
> 
> How Islamic inventors changed the world - Science - News - The Independent
> 
> I don't know if the author of the article is of European origin or not, but judging by the website's address, it's a UK based website.
> 
> There maybe some Europeans who might not like attributing things to others, but such people exist among all nations & it's wrong to generalize an entire continent the majority of which is inhabited by regular people just like us. If you read "Mahmoud_EGY"'s post he doesn't want to attribute Ancient Greece's success to them either & instead claims its all thanks to Egypt.
> 
> I will give you another example of people who hate attributing things to others, what do you think of Afro centrists who claim Prophet Isa (Peace be upon him) was black?


The source you provided is clearly written by a Muslim:1001 Inventions - Discover The Muslim Heritage In Our World | 1001 Inventions
Also, you really can't give a counter example when the discussion is about a trend, from democracy to logic to another million topics, the west has always claimed they invented/discovered things others did before them. Yes, as you said there are exceptions but they are the other way around. I don't know if its naivety or cultural indoctrination, but your way of defending western hypocrisy is disappointing.

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## IbnAlwaled

Desert Fox said:


> This is what you arabs sound like: *"Oh, you shia's are fire worshiping fake muslims, we Saudis are the real Muslims, we will got to heaven and you will burn in hell forever"*.


Whats wrong with saying facts, are you against stating facts now?
In any case, I thought you guys would love to go to hell, so you can worship fire forever.

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## BLACKEAGLE

IbnAlwaled said:


> Whats wrong with saying facts, are you against stating facts now?
> In any case, I thought you guys would love to go to hell, so you can worship fire forever.



Why are so mean with them? go easy man

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## Surenas

IbnAlwaled said:


> Whats wrong with saying facts, are you against stating facts now?
> In any case, I thought you guys would love to go to hell, so you can worship fire forever.



We just love fire!

TEHRAN: Raghs va Paykubi Dar Tehran. March 13, 2012 - YouTube

Iran- Sarbandar -13.03.2012 - People Celebrating Firefestiva - YouTube

Chaharshanbe Suri 2012 - YouTube


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## Hack-Hook

IbnAlwaled said:


> Whats wrong with saying facts, are you against stating facts now?
> In any case, I thought you guys would love to go to hell, so you can worship fire forever.


 


BLACKEAGLE said:


> Why are so mean with them? go easy man


You know we have a joke about heaven an hell
one they a very pious person die and god say to him because you were so good you can choose if you want to go to hell or heaven so he decide to go and first see them for himself ,first he go to heaven and he sees its looked abandoned all the trees are rooted and cities are in ruins and its filled with lazy and poor people and the streets are dirty with litters and everywhere if there is an argument they solve it with suicide bombing.
then he go to hell and see it well maintained with robots and all the cities there are maintained in artificial environments ,every home is cool and have air condition ,and every where there are domed structures filled with trees and have artificially controlled environment and the most advanced form of irrigation systems ,there are artificial spring every where there artificial lakes and everyone have fun and ...

well I said it so you be careful not to make the wrong chooice


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## BLACKEAGLE

JEskandari said:


> You know we have a joke about heaven an hell
> one they a very pious person die and god say to him because you were so good you can choose if you want to go to hell or heaven so he decide to go and first see them for himself ,first he go to heaven and he sees its looked abandoned all the trees are rooted and cities are in ruins and its filled with lazy and poor people and the streets are dirty with litters and everywhere if there is an argument they solve it with suicide bombing.
> then he go to heaven and see it well maintained with robots and all the cities there are maintained in artificial environments ,every home is cool and have air condition ,and every where there are domed structures filled with trees and have artificially controlled environment and the most advanced form of irrigation systems ,there are artificial spring every where there artificial lakes and everyone have fun and ...
> 
> well I said it so you be careful not to make the wrong chooice


 may Allah guide us all to the right path. May we all rest in Heaven. Ameen.


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## Hack-Hook

BLACKEAGLE said:


> may Allah guide us all to the right path. May we all rest in Heaven. Ameen.


a typing mistake the second one was hell


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## somebozo

you forgot Ummayad as with in less than 100 years they managed to conquer almost half of the world.

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## BLACKEAGLE

JEskandari said:


> a typing mistake the second one was hell



Thank you for your kindness. That shows how much moral values you have.


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## scholseys

somebozo said:


> you forgot Ummayad as with in less than 100 years they managed to conquer almost half of the world.



lol Chinese folks are everywhere...found a china town in jamaica..... and their rapid rise which will overtake the us in terms of economy and military within the next 10 years....thats a pretty rapid rise!


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## Mahmoud_EGY

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> Iran Elamite empire was the amongs first empires along with the ones from Iraq.
> the first recorded war is even from the Iran-iraq.
> 
> Only an idiot would deny the magnificence of egyptian culture.
> 
> but did you know egyptian took their idea fro pyramds from Iran?
> your first pyramid has steps, and the oldest zigurrats are from Iran.


that is the first time i hear of this i have seen pyramids with steps in egypt they are smaller than the 3 pyramids in giza

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## Ottoman-Turk

I MADE THIS THREAD FOR STRONGEST EMPIRES BY TIMELINE , NOT ANYTHING ELSE AND PEOPLE STARTED POSTING PICS AND STUFF OF OTHER PEOPLE LOL OBVIOUSLY IRANIANS OR PERSIANS ARENT GONA SAY THEY WERE WEAK OR WHATEVER AND ARABS HISTORY TELLS THE TRUTH ANYWAY I BET NOW EUROPEON COLONIZERS IF THEY READ THIS THREAD THEY WILL BE LAUGHING AT US , WHY WE ARGUING WITH EACH OTHER SO CAN SOMEONE LIST THEM BY TIMELINES I DONT IT AFTER LIKE 14TH CENTURY I DNT NO ABOUT ANCIENT ONES BECAUSE THERE ISNT MUCH INFO SOME THINGS MIGHT EVEN BE A MYTH BUT ANYWAYS IF PEOPLE NO YOU CAN LIST IT DOWN


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## SHAHED

Hey WTF ?

STOP this BS fighting !

Strongest Empires : Greece ... Persian ... Roman ... Egypt ... china ... British ... france ... Soviet ... USA

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## BLACKEAGLE

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> Iran Elamite empire was the amongs first empires along with the ones from Iraq.
> the first recorded war is even from the Iran-iraq.
> 
> Only an idiot would deny the magnificence of egyptian culture.
> 
> but did you know egyptian took their idea fro pyramds from Iran?
> your first pyramid has steps, and the oldest zigurrats are from Iran.


Right, there were pyramids in central America before...


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## Ottoman-Turk

gokturks were massive aswell 6million km- just to remind you this is only one of the TURKIC EMPIRES of the many many


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## p(-)0ENiX

IbnAlwaled said:


> The source you provided is clearly written by a Muslim:1001 Inventions - Discover The Muslim Heritage In Our World | 1001 Inventions
> Also, you really can't give a counter example when the discussion is about a trend, from democracy to logic to another million topics, the west has always claimed they invented/discovered things others did before them. Yes, as you said there are exceptions but they are the other way around. I don't know if its naivety or cultural indoctrination, but your way of defending western hypocrisy is disappointing.



Yea, I just took another look at the article & the source is Islamic but The Independent is still a UK based website. What's wrong with my example of Afro centrism? Its also a trend among many people today & just because it happens to be a recent trend doesn't mean its any better or worse than Euro centrism. Overall today most nations do get credit for their hard work. 

I am not defending the west, in fact I am trying hard to not take sides at all. But when people take cheap shots against others I will defend them, no matter who they are. Many members here from all parts of the world posting on this thread are filled with prejudice, racism, & some extreme form of nationalism. What do you have to say about them? Is that due to cultural indoctrination or naivety? 

The fact is that many of the empires being discussed here were like Titans at their peak, but they all collapsed & died like a cat run over by a car. Their descendants today hardly have much if any of the former glory of their ancestors.


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## The SC

JEskandari said:


> well the word Aryan have nothing to do with being Fertile it means being Noble and have a Sanskrit root not an Aramaic root like the word Arab




I am talking about the root "AR" not the words aryan or arab.
The whole Indian history started to be revised in the 70s of this century!



aazidane said:


> because using steps to buildind pyramids is the easiest way to build one. Pyramids itself are the easiest tall structures to build our of any other shapes. So naturally the egyptians went for the pyramids. Pyramids are found in a lot of other places.



A ziggurat and a pyramid are different in almost every way- being made differently and used differently, but they both show some of the religious and cultural patterns of their makers, the Sumerians and the Egyptians. 

Difference Between Ziggurats and Pyramids:

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-ziggurats-and-pyramids/






IbnAlwaled said:


> Whats wrong with saying facts, are you against stating facts now?
> In any case, I thought you guys would love to go to hell, so you can worship fire forever.



Oh, now Zoroastrians hiding behind Iranian Muslims!


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## The SC

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> yes then by that logic
> 
> shutor>lion?
> 
> 
> 
> once again another BS.
> 
> the mayans and babylonian had zero thousand yeas before arab.
> arab stole indian numeral systems.just like you try and steal our scientists.



That is why their calendars were soooo precise!
No offence, but it is a question of the evolution of sciences and mostly mathematics, physics by consequence, and philosophy was the mother of all sciences.
I am not denying that India had a concept of the zero, but not as a number, rather as a symbol describing the neon or void.
The most sophisticated system for counting(apart from the egyptian civilisaton mysteries) was the Roman system which fell short of using the Zero.
Indian numerals , despite what westerners and Indians are saying had nothing to do with Arabic numerals who till very recently started to be called the Indo-Arabic numerals, someone did obviously add the "Indo" term to it.




Islamic History in Arabia and Middle East

The first sign that the Indian numerals were moving west comes from a source which predates the rise of the Arab nations. In 662 AD Severus Sebokht, a Nestorian bishop who lived in Keneshra on the Euphrates river, wrote:-

I will omit all discussion of the science of the Indians, ... , of their subtle discoveries in astronomy, discoveries that are more ingenious than those of the Greeks and the Babylonians, and of their valuable methods of calculation which surpass description. I wish only to say that *this computation is done by means of nine signs*. If those who believe, because they speak Greek, that they have arrived at the limits of science, would read the Indian texts, they would be convinced, even if a little late in the day, that there are others who know something of value. 
http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/HistTopics/Arabic_numerals.html

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## p(-)0ENiX

The SC said:


> I am talking about the root "AR" not the words aryan or arab.



In terms of religion Prophet Noah (Peace be upon him) had 3 sons, in the order of their birth they are Shem, Ham, & Japheth.

Shem is the father of the Semitic people, as in the original speakers of the Semitic languages. As far as I know the region the Children of Shem originally inhabited is all of Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, Israel & Lebanon.

Arabic is a Semitic language.

Japheth is the father of the Indo-European people as in the original speakers of the Indo-European languages. Keep in mind that even though Indo-European languages are some of the most spoken languages today, not all of the speakers of those languages are the Children of Japheth. This is because of cultural influence causing the spread of languages.

Sanskrit is an Indo-European language, a distant sister language of Ancient Greek & Latin if I am not mistaken. This implies that the original speakers of these languages were most likely distant genetic cousins, similar to how the Ishmaelites & Israelites are genetic cousins that speak sister languages, in this case Arabic & Hebrew.

The similarity between the word Aryan & Arab is just a coincidence caused by the English language. Or why does the word Hebrew not resemble the word Aryan or the word Arab keeping in mind the Arabs are their cousins?

In Arabic, here are the words for both Arab & Hebrew.

Arab &#1593;&#1585;&#1576;&#1610; This is pronounced as "Erby".

Hebrew &#1593;&#1576;&#1585;&#1610; This is pronounced as "Ebry". 

The word for Aryan is &#1575;&#1604;&#1570;&#1585;&#1610;&#1577;, its pronunciation is just like the Sanskrit word "Arya". 

You can notice in Arabic the words "Erby" & "Ebry" are extremely similar because from what I know they refer to a person named Eber who happens to be the great grandson of Shem & is an ancestor of both the Ishmaelites & Israelites. In Arabic the word for Aryan has a separate sound from the word Arab as compared to English because it lacks the sound of the Arabic letter "&#1593;".

*Keep in mind that I might be wrong about this, & if someone has better knowledge on this subject, then they should correct me. Oh yeah the Arabic speakers on this forum should correct me if I made a mistake too.*


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## The SC

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> JEskandari said:
> 
> 
> 
> chera ba in shutora ahmagh bas mikoni? baba veleshoon kon.
> 
> ina ahmagh hastan. low lives also.
> 
> 
> 
> Swallow back your words.
> 
> 
> The Aramaic Language
> 
> Aramaic is one of the Semitic languages, an important group of languages known almost from the beginning of human history and including also Arabic, Hebrew, Ethiopic, and Akkadian (ancient Babylonian and Assyrian). It is particularly closely related to Hebrew, and was written in a variety of alphabetic scripts. (What is usually called "Hebrew" script is actually an Aramaic script.)
> 
> Aramaic as an Imperial Language
> 
> Aramaic was used by the conquering Assyrians as a language of administration communication, and following them by the Babylonian and* Persian* empires, which ruled from India to Ethiopia, and employed Aramaic as the official language. For this period, then (about 700&#8211;320 B.C.E.), Aramaic held a position similar to that occupied by English today. The most important documents of this period are numerous papyri from Egypt and Palestine.
> 
> 
> The Aramaic Language
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabic language;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.indiana.edu/~arabic/arabic_history.htm
> 
> http://www.jaas.org/edocs/v14n1/e8.pdf
Click to expand...

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## The SC

JEskandari said:


> being the only super power in world is a little extreme ,at the time we don't have to much knowledge about what we had in india and china and also egypt power never exceed Jordan also at the time in Mesopotamia there was Sumerian civilization and in central Iran we had Jiroft culture which date back to early Bronze age or 3000 year B.C. and they were advanced enough to make golden eye implant and do surgery on skull and had a alphabetic writing system which were similar to the Elamite writing system
> Shahr-e Sukhteh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Jiroft culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Art find in Egypt 15,000 years old:

Yale: Art find in Egypt 15,000 years old - Connecticut Post


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## The SC

p(-)0ENiX said:


> In terms of religion Prophet Noah (Peace be upon him) had 3 sons, in the order of their birth they are Shem, Ham, & Japheth.
> 
> Shem is the father of the Semitic people, as in the original speakers of the Semitic languages. As far as I know the region the Children of Shem originally inhabited is all of Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, Israel & Lebanon.
> 
> es & Israelites. In Arabic the word for Aryan has a separate sound from the word Arab as compared to English because it lacks the sound of the Arabic letter "&#1593;".
> 
> *Keep in mind that I might be wrong about this, & if someone has better knowledge on this subject, then they should correct me. Oh yeah the Arabic speakers on this forum should correct me if I made a mistake too.*



Just add the letter "&#1593;" to Aryan and it will give you the same as Arabic or Hebrew, but without the "b",
And please, what language did Abraham(as) [or-Brahman- in Sanskrit ](Open your Eyes) spoke.


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## The SC

p(-)0ENiX said:


> Yea, I just took another look at the article & the source is Islamic but The Independent is still a UK based website. What's wrong with my example of Afro centrism? Its also a trend among many people today & just because it happens to be a recent trend doesn't mean its any better or worse than Euro centrism. Overall today most nations do get credit for their hard work.
> 
> I am not defending the west, in fact I am trying hard to not take sides at all. But when people take cheap shots against others I will defend them, no matter who they are. Many members here from all parts of the world posting on this thread are filled with prejudice, racism, & some extreme form of nationalism. What do you have to say about them? Is that due to cultural indoctrination or naivety?
> 
> The fact is that many of the empires being discussed here were like Titans at their peak, but they all collapsed & died like a cat run over by a car. Their descendants today hardly have much if any of the former glory of their ancestors.



Discussing History is bitter even between neutral professional historians!



JEskandari said:


> well the word Aryan have nothing to do with being Fertile it means being Noble and have a Sanskrit root not an Aramaic root like the word Arab



Please refer to the fertile crescent !

Fertile Crescent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## nalandapride

The SC said:


> Just add the letter "&#1593;" to Aryan and it will give you the same as Arabic or Hebrew, but without the "b",
> And please, what language did *Abraham(as) [or-Brahman- in Sanskrit ](Open your Eyes) spoke*.



Don't take it offensive but care to explain this part please. If you have any question you can ask me also. I have seem some Muslim clerics trying to connect these two words.

By the way, Sanskrit language has many similarities with ancient Avestan language.


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## IbnAlwaled

@The SC,
I asked you :


> Why haven't it crossed your mind that maybe English is not the best language to trace the origin of name Arab?
> There is a disagreement between Arab scholars for the origin of the name, but most say that its probably from Yarab:
> Ù&#352;Ø¹Ø±Ø¨ - Ù&#710;Ù&#352;Ù&#402;Ù&#352;Ø¨Ù&#352;Ø¯Ù&#352;Ø§Ø&#338; Ø§Ù&#8222;Ù&#8230;Ù&#710;Ø³Ù&#710;Ø¹Ø© Ø§Ù&#8222;Ø*Ø±Ø©


still waiting...


@p(-)0ENiX :


> terms of religion Prophet Noah (Peace be upon him) had 3 sons, in the order of their birth they are Shem, Ham, & Japheth.
> 
> Shem is the father of the Semitic people, as in the original speakers of the Semitic languages. As far as I know the region the Children of Shem originally inhabited is all of Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, Israel & Lebanon.
> 
> Arabic is a Semitic language.
> 
> Japheth is the father of the Indo-European people as in the original speakers of the Indo-European languages. Keep in mind that even though Indo-European languages are some of the most spoken languages today, not all of the speakers of those languages are the Children of Japheth. This is because of cultural influence causing the spread of languages.
> 
> Sanskrit is an Indo-European language, a distant sister language of Ancient Greek & Latin if I am not mistaken. This implies that the original speakers of these languages were most likely distant genetic cousins, similar to how the Ishmaelites & Israelites are genetic cousins that speak sister languages, in this case Arabic & Hebrew.


Except that Arabs are Semites and Arabic is Semitic language, there is no proof of what you said whatsoever.
I think this comes from Talmudic nonsense.

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## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> Art find in Egypt 15,000 years old:
> 
> Yale: Art find in Egypt 15,000 years old - Connecticut Post


15000 years ago is stone age , there never was an empire in that time trade was no trade 
there was nothing to call an empire .



The SC said:


> Art find in Egypt 15,000 years old:
> 
> Yale: Art find in Egypt 15,000 years old - Connecticut Post


15000 years ago is stone age , there never was an empire in that time trade was no trade 
there was nothing to call an empire .

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## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> Please refer to the fertile crescent !
> 
> Fertile Crescent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 
Honestly , who made you think people of North Caucasians (the Chechens, the Ingush, the Batsbi, and the people of Dagestan) are Aryan if you want to know its the people of Southern Caucasus that their language is part of Indo-Eurropean family of languages it means Armenian and Ossetic peoples 

these are the people that you mistaken with Aryans


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## p(-)0ENiX

IbnAlwaled said:


> @p(-)0ENiX :
> 
> Except that Arabs are Semites and Arabic is Semitic language, there is no proof of what you said whatsoever.
> I think this comes from Talmudic nonsense.



I never said that Arabs weren't Semites & that Arabic isn't a Semitic language. Wrong, most of this comes from the Book of Genesis. What is there no proof of? Isn't Sanskrit an Indo-European language? Doesn't that make it the distant sister language of other Indo-European languages? Aren't Israelites & Ishmaelites genetic cousins? Aren't Hebrew & Arabic sister languages? What part is there no proof of? Oh you are talking about the *existence of Shem, Ham, & Japheth am I right?* 

You claim that _"Except that Arabs are Semites and Arabic is Semitic language, there is no proof of what you said whatsoever."_ so this means that Sanskrit isn't an Indo-European language according to you right?






Next time make it clear, what part exactly do you not agree with? Don't try to create arguments out of spite. I hope you know that the word Semitic is derived from the word Shem. 

One more thing, I found a family tree of the various prophets on this site for you to check out.

http://heshamsyed.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/family-tree-of-prophets.gif

In the map, the person after "Nuh" called "Sam" is Shem & Yafid is "Japheth". 



The SC said:


> Just add the letter "&#1593;" to Aryan and it will give you the same as Arabic or Hebrew, but without the "b",
> And please, what language did Abraham(as) [or-Brahman- in Sanskrit ](Open your Eyes) spoke.



Two words, Aryan & Arab sound similar & all of a sudden that some how proves that the people have the same lineage huh?

Abraham was from Babylon right? So he must have spoken a Semitic language, some claim it was Aramaic, others claim it was Hebrew or Akkadian (Extinct language of Mesopotamia). Similarities between words or names is no proof of people having the same lineage.


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## Cem_

British Empire, Roman Empire, Ottomans and Mongol Empire.


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## IbnAlwaled

.............................................................................


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## IbnAlwaled

p(-)0ENiX said:


> I never said that Arabs weren't Semites & that Arabic isn't a Semitic language. Wrong, most of this comes from the Book of Genesis. What is there no proof of? Isn't Sanskrit an Indo-European language? Doesn't that make it the distant sister language of other Indo-European languages? Aren't Israelites & Ishmaelites genetic cousins? Aren't Hebrew & Arabic sister languages? What part is there no proof of? Oh you are talking about the *existence of Shem, Ham, & Japheth am I right?*
> 
> You claim that _"Except that Arabs are Semites and Arabic is Semitic language, there is no proof of what you said whatsoever."_ so this means that Sanskrit isn't an Indo-European language according to you right?
> 
> 
> 
> Next time make it clear, what part exactly do you not agree with? Don't try to create arguments out of spite. I hope you know that the word Semitic is derived from the word Shem.
> 
> One more thing, I found a family tree of the various prophets on this site for you to check out.
> 
> http://heshamsyed.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/family-tree-of-prophets.gif
> 
> In the map, the person after "Nuh" called "Sam" is Shem & Yafid is "Japheth".



why do you like to pretend like you have a comprehension problem?
When i added the statement"I think this comes from Talmudic nonsense." It was intended to clarify which part of your BS I was quoting. the BIBLICAL part.
No one knows how many sons Noah has or what their names were. Most definitely your statement about one of his sons was the father of Smites and the other one the father of indo-europeans is sheer nonsense. 
Unless you are a Christian literalist, lets try to keep this thread mythology free.

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## p(-)0ENiX

IbnAlwaled said:


> Why do you like to pretend like you have a comprehension problem?
> when I added the statement"I think this comes from Talmudic nonsense." it was meant to clarify which part of your BS I was referring to. The BIBLICAL part.
> As i said there is no proof for what you said whatsoever, no one knows how many children Noah had or what were *there* names. Most certainly the part *were on of* his children was the father of Semitic people and his brothers indo-european was utter nonsense. Unless you are a christian literalist, lets try to keep this thread mythology free.



Funny that you accuse me of having a comprehension problems whereas you yourself had trouble understanding my posts previously. Remember the part where you misunderstood my example of the caliphates' contribution? Perhaps if you wrote more clearly with proper use of grammar & no spelling mistakes either like the ones I have highlighted in the quote, I would have an easier time understanding the crap you wrote. No, I am not a Christian either, I am a Muslim.

How can you be so sure that no one knows the number of sons Noah had? Most people assume he had 4 sons, one of whom drowned in the flood. If no one knows their names then why did the link regarding the family tree I gave you had "Sam" or "Shem" written on it? Explain that to me, are the people who constructed the tree lying or are they just trying to rip off the Torah without any proof whatsoever regarding their names? You do realize that the Proto-Semitic & Proto-Indo-European language share a common root, some people are of the opinion that these languages branched similar to how the family of Noah branched out. Regardless of this being true or not, it's still an interesting hypothesis, & it's better than simply calling someone else's post "BS" as you did.

I have another link for you, check it out:
http://www.islambasics.com/index.php?act=download&BID=85

Its a PDF file & the cover page will give you its details, check out the story of Jesus, when he revives "Sam the Ibn Noah". I am sure you realize who that is............Shem the son of Noah.

Ah I see you modified your post, I couldn't reply earlier because PDF was down. Nice try at getting rid of spelling errors but you still misspelled Semites as "Smites".


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## IbnAlwaled

p(-)0ENiX said:


> Ah I see you modified your post, I couldn't reply earlier because PDF was down. Nice try at getting rid of spelling errors but you still misspelled Semites as "Smites".


lol, I edited my post before you replied.


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## IbnAlwaled

...........................................


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## p(-)0ENiX

IbnAlwaled said:


> lol, I edited my post before you replied.



Yeah I saw that, when I was initially writing a reply back to you, I noticed on another tab the PDF was down so I just copied over my reply till PDF resumed. In the process I copied your original post too. 



IbnAlwaled said:


> ...........................................



What's with the dotted line? Double post error or something?


----------



## p(-)0ENiX

IbnAlwaled said:


> lol, I edited my post before you replied.



Yeah I saw that, when I was initially writing a reply back to you, I noticed on another tab the PDF was down so I just copied over my reply till PDF resumed. In the process I copied your original post too. 



IbnAlwaled said:


> ...........................................



What's with the dotted line? Double post error or something?

*EDIT*

I think I just understood the problem.


----------



## The SC

JEskandari said:


> 15000 years ago is stone age , there never was an empire in that time trade was no trade
> there was nothing to call an empire .
> 
> 
> 15000 years ago is stone age , there never was an empire in that time trade was no trade
> there was nothing to call an empire .



have a look at something else:

A. Geology, The pattern of erosion on the Sphinx indicates that it was carved at the end of the last Ice Age, when heavy rains fell in the eastern Sahara - perhaps more than 12,000 years ago. This contrasts starkly with the 'orthodox' Egyptological dating for the Sphinx of around 4,500 years ago.

B. Seismography. The seismic survey indicated the existence of several unexplored tunnels and cavities in the bedrock beneath the Sphinx, including a large rectangular chamber at a depth of some 25 feet beneath the monuments front paws." 

Underground Hall of Records and chambers below the Sphinx : Reality-Choice


----------



## The SC

nalandapride said:


> Don't take it offensive but care to explain this part please. If you have any question you can ask me also. I have seem some Muslim clerics trying to connect these two words.
> 
> By the way, Sanskrit language has many similarities with ancient Avestan language.




This was my personal observation (since Mesopotamia and the Indus were on both sides of Iran I thought that they must have
Shared a lot of things, and since Abraham was the greatest Prophet for the Muslims -The foot print of Abraham inside the Kaaba - I thought of it like this: Brahmin or Brahman = saint or enlightened man or even God to some and Ibrahim or Abraham =Prophet for Muslims and others) , now that I looked up on the Internet, I found this:

Martin Haug, Ph.D., wrote in The Sacred Language, Writings, and Religions of the Parsis, "The Magi are said to have called their religion Kesh-î-Ibrahim.They traced their religious books to Abraham, who was believed to have brought them from heaven." (p. 16.)

There are certain striking similarities between the Hindu god Brahma and his consort Saraisvati, and the Jewish Abraham and Sarai, that are more than mere coincidences. Although in all of India there is only one temple dedicated to Brahma, this cult is the third largest Hindu sect.


In his book Moisés y los Extraterrestres, Mexican author Tomás Doreste states,

Voltaire was of the opinion that Abraham descended from some of the numerous Brahman priests who left India to spread their teachings throughout the world; and in support of his thesis he presented the following elements: the similarity of names and the fact that the city of Ur, land of the patriarchs, was near the border of Persia, the road to India, where that Brahman had been born.

The name of Brahma was highly respected in India, and his influence spread throughout Persia as far as the lands bathed by the rivers Euphrates and Tigris. The Persians adopted Brahma and made him their own. Later they would say that the God arrived from Bactria, a mountainous region situated midway on the road to India. (pp. 46-47.)

Bactria (a region of ancient Afghanistan) was the locality of a prototypical Jewish nation called Juhuda or Jaguda, also called Ur-Jaguda. Ur meant "place or town." Therefore, the bible was correct in stating that Abraham came from "Ur of the Chaldeans." "Chaldean," more correctly Kaul-Deva (Holy Kauls), was not the name of a specific ethnicity but the title of an ancient Hindu Brahmanical priestly caste who lived in what are now Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the Indian state of Kashmir.

"The tribe of Ioud or the Brahmin Abraham, was expelled from or left the Maturea of the kingdom of Oude in India and, settling in Goshen, or the house of the Sun or Heliopolis in Egypt, gave it the name of the place which they had left in India, Maturea." (Anacalypsis; Vol. I, p. 405.)

"He was of the religion or sect of Persia, and of Melchizedek."(Vol. I, p. 364.)

"The Persians also claim Ibrahim, i.e. Abraham, for their founder, as well as the Jews. Thus we see that according to all ancient history the Persians, the Jews, and the Arabians are descendants of Abraham.(p.85) ...We are told that Terah, the father of Abraham, originally came from an Eastern country called Ur, of the Chaldees or Culdees, to dwell in a district called Mesopotamia. Some time after he had dwelt there, Abraham, or Abram, or Brahma, and his wife Sara or Sarai, or Sara-iswati, left their father's family and came into Canaan. The identity of Abraham and Sara with Brahma and Saraiswati was first pointed out by the Jesuit missionaries."(Vol. I; p. 387.)


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## The SC

IbnAlwaled said:


> @The SC,
> I asked you :
> 
> still waiting...
> 
> 
> @p(-)0ENiX :
> 
> Except that Arabs are Semites and Arabic is Semitic language, there is no proof of what you said whatsoever.
> I think this comes from Talmudic nonsense.




IbnAlwalid@

The term Aryan (not an English word) means naked in Arabic, look it up for yourself.
Talmudic yourself! do not insult me please. Ha Ha Ha

Semitic is a language not to confuse with origins of humans.


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## The SC

ON INDO-ARYAN ORIGINS:

On Indo-Aryan Origins


----------



## The SC

*Bani aadam or Bani Ajam*

Western nationalist and racist ideas, particularly the existence of an "Aryan" and "Semitic" race, developed hand-in-hand. Indeed, the central motif of racism is "purity," the same purity which informs the Western national model and so precludes a multi-ethnic nationalism. Meskoob defines Iranianness in terms of this Western nationalist discourse. It is the same understanding of nationalism which was largely propaganda by the Pahlavi government

The Iranian: Arabs in Persian literature


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## The SC

*Bani aadam or Bani Ajam*

Iranian Identity, the 'Aryan Race'

Iranian Identity, the 'Aryan Race,' and Jake Gyllenhaal - Tehran Bureau | FRONTLINE | PBS


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## IbnAlwaled

The SC said:


> IbnAlwalid@
> 
> The term Aryan (not an English word) means naked in Arabic, look it up for yourself.
> Talmudic yourself! do not insult me please. Ha Ha Ha
> 
> Semitic is a language not to confuse with origins of humans.


I meant Arab genealogist trace the origin of name Arab to this guy: 
http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/يعرب

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Right, there were pyramids in central America before...



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA the Chichen Itza is 1400 years old max.
oldes Iranian ziggurats dates back to 4000BCE that's 4200 year older!

there is not pyramid or ziggurat that pre dated those in Iran.
please research man.

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Right, there were pyramids in central America before...



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA the Chichen Itza is 1400 years old max.
oldes Iranian ziggurats dates back to 4000BCE that's 4200 year older that that one you shown!

there is not pyramid or ziggurat that pre dated those in Iran.
please research man.

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## The SC

*Bani aadam or Bani Ajam*

Iranian Identity, the 'Aryan Race'

Iranian Identity, the 'Aryan Race,' and Jake Gyllenhaal - Tehran Bureau | FRONTLINE | PBS

The Arab race includes the "Aryans" ... same physical race. Same facial features, same colors.. different than "whites" different than Negroes. The stock of every Israelite in the scriptures.

The north western part of the Arab race (pink) is Turkey. This is where Noah and the boys got off the ark. Some of the descendants of Shem, Ham and Japeth settled here (Hittites) long before any such thing as an Israelite ever existed.

Races.. white oriental aryan arab negro anglo where did the Arab Israelite race exist?

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## The SC

IbnAlwaled said:


> I meant Arab genealogist trace the origin of name Arab to this guy:
> ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ - ÙÙÙÙØ¨ÙØ¯ÙØ§Ø Ø§ÙÙÙØ³ÙØ¹Ø© Ø§ÙØ­Ø±Ø©



That means that a lot of people learned a lot of things from the Arabs when they started interpreting the Arabic literature before the venue of Islam and now they are claiming those things to be their own!
A lot of morality and ethics(the symbols of civilisation and civilised people)in that poem.

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## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> have a look at something else:
> 
> A. Geology, The pattern of erosion on the Sphinx indicates that it was carved at the end of the last Ice Age, when heavy rains fell in the eastern Sahara - perhaps more than 12,000 years ago. This contrasts starkly with the 'orthodox' Egyptological dating for the Sphinx of around 4,500 years ago.
> 
> B. Seismography. The seismic survey indicated the existence of several unexplored tunnels and cavities in the bedrock beneath the Sphinx, including a large rectangular chamber at a depth of some 25 feet beneath the monuments front paws."
> 
> Underground Hall of Records and chambers below the Sphinx : Reality-Choice



I wonder if the rest of your link are of the same quality ?
by the way do you know what fiction is ? have you looked at the article do you think that it have a grain of credibility in all of it ?
have you ever checked how credible the sources of that article are ?

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## The SC

JEskandari said:


> Honestly , who made you think people of North Caucasians (the Chechens, the Ingush, the Batsbi, and the people of Dagestan) are Aryan if you want to know its the people of Southern Caucasus that their language is part of Indo-Eurropean family of languages it means Armenian and Ossetic peoples
> 
> these are the people that you mistaken with Aryans



Honestly refer to the map and go argue with your pairs, or come up with facts.
And please stop trolling it's not good for your health.

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## p(-)0ENiX

I am unable to browse through this thread, certain pages don't even load. Anyone else had this problem?


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## SHAHED

*PERSIAN Empire*

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## The SC

JEskandari said:


> I wonder if the rest of your link are of the same quality ?
> by the way do you know what fiction is ? have you looked at the article do you think that it have a grain of credibility in all of it ?
> have you ever checked how credible the sources of that article are ?



There are hundreds of articles on the subject, choose the ones, you can verify.

That was no fiction, since :

A. Geology, The pattern of erosion on the Sphinx indicates that it was carved at the end of the last Ice Age, when heavy rains fell in the eastern Sahara - perhaps more than 12,000 years ago. This contrasts starkly with the 'orthodox' Egyptological dating for the Sphinx of around 4,500 years ago.

B. Seismography. The seismic survey indicated the existence of several unexplored tunnels and cavities in the bedrock beneath the Sphinx, including a large rectangular chamber at a depth of some 25 feet beneath the monuments front paws." 

The Egyptian government started the excavations in 2010, check it on Youtube.

And here is something else:
Egypt's Oldest Known Art Identified, Is 15,000 Years Old

And more:

10,450 B.C. - Trivia / Giza Pyramids - "According to archaeo-astronomer Robert Bauval, the pattern traced out on the ground [in almost fifteen million tons of perfectly dressed stone] matched exactly the pattern in the sky [of Orion's belt] during the epoch of 10,450 B.C. Using a sophisticated computer programme capable of plotting the precessionally induced changes in the declinations of all the stars visible in the sky over any part of the world in any epoch, Bauval found that the Pyramids/Orion's Belt correlation was general and obvious in all all epochs, but specific and exact in only one: At 10,450 B.C. - and at that date only - we find that the pattern of the pyramids on the ground provides a perfect reflection of the pattern of the stars in the sky." [Link: 1]

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

SC please cut the BS bro.

In iran there is a cave with 50000 year old paitning using safron. so what?

we are talking about CIVILIZATIONS here, there is a 12000 year old structure in trukey, that does NOT mean they have a 12000 year old civilization... do you even know what a civilization is?


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## The SC

Facts please !

Your ignorance seems to be surpassed only by your ignorance.
Any stupid person like you can make statements like that.

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

I am not going to argue with you, since that did not have a good ending in the Iranian forum.
this is HEAVEN.

if you want fact you have to go to Iran, I cant get any here. I know all this from when I was in Iran.
but there is something about it in wilkepedia I think.


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## The SC

Or this:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/-KHzwBR1WeJo/T...ZZA2VfOs/99de717097ee459b806d1e89d7089a3b.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9yNjJXtCr...82701694_100000129589211_165692_2292611_n.jpg

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

edittttttttttt


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## The SC

That was for someone else.


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## PERSIAN GOD KING

Calling me stupid shows your true face.
I take back calling you a bro, you disrespect our culture in the other forum and think we will just not say anything?

you lack the intelligence to understand what a civilization LOL.
I make sure Iranian see your true face.

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## The SC

The Greatest Empire of them all, taking into account how many people it has affected and influenced in a positive way was and is: The Empire of* Islam*.

List of Muslim empires and dynasties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

Yeah keep dreaming.


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## The SC

Iranians will slap you on the face if you say this in Iran, you can say it under the protection of England (maybe) but be careful of your words even in England.
You stated in many cases that you were an atheist and you are hanging on to your culture of the *ancient* Persian empire.
This shows how ancient and low you are in your life.

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## BLACKEAGLE

The SC said:


> Iranians will slap you on the face if you say this in Iran, you can say it under the protection of England (maybe) but be careful of your words even in England.
> You stated in many cases that you were an atheist and you are hanging on to your culture of the *ancient* Persian empire.
> This shows how ancient and low you are in your life.



I enjoyed reading your valuable posts. Thank you.


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## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> Or this:
> 
> http://lh4.ggpht.com/-KHzwBR1WeJo/T...ZZA2VfOs/99de717097ee459b806d1e89d7089a3b.jpg
> 
> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9yNjJXtCr...82701694_100000129589211_165692_2292611_n.jpg


 
Very beautiful ,I always loved Calligraphy . by the way did you knew that Persian Calligraphy was the epitome of Islamic calligraphy . lets look t how is our technique














and this is from 2 century before Islam





Look at these styles that have been invented by Persians


> The history of calligraphy in Iran dates back to the pre Islam era. In Zoroastrianism beautiful and clear writings were always praised. [1]
> 
> in past 500 years iranian calligraphy is florished by Nasta&#703;l&#299;q Nasta&#703;l&#299;q (also anglicized as Nastaleeq; in Persian: &#1606;&#1587;&#1578;&#1593;&#1604;&#1740;&#1602; nasta&#703;l&#299;q) is one of the main script styles used in writing the Perso-Arabic script, and traditionally the predominant style in Persian calligraphy Around one thousand years ago, Ibn Muqlah (in Persian: &#1575;&#1576;&#1606; &#1605;&#1602;&#1604;&#1607; &#1576;&#1610;&#1590;&#1575;&#1608;&#1740; &#1588;&#1610;&#1585;&#1575;&#1586;&#1740 and his brother created six genres of Iranian calligraphy namely "Tahqiq", "Reyhan", "Sols", "Naskh", "Toqih" and "Reqah". These genres were common for four centuries in Persia. In 7th century (Hijri calendar), a new genre of Persian calligraphy was invented and named "Ta'liq".
> Morteza Gholi Khan Shamlou and Mohammad Shafi Heravi created a new genre called Shekasteh Nasta&#703;l&#299;q. Abdol-Majid Taleqani brought this genre to its highest level.



and as you see in this link the calligraphy is more revered in Turkey , Iran and India
Islamic calligraphy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Hack-Hook

does anybody knew whats wrong with this topic I cant see after page 46 in firefox


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## Desert Fox

The SC said:


> *Bani aadam or Bani Ajam*
> 
> Iranian Identity, the 'Aryan Race'
> 
> Iranian Identity, the 'Aryan Race,' and Jake Gyllenhaal - Tehran Bureau | FRONTLINE | PBS
> 
> The Arab race includes the "Aryans" ... same physical race. Same facial features, same colors.. different than "whites" different than Negroes. The stock of every Israelite in the scriptures.
> 
> The north western part of the Arab race (pink) is Turkey. This is where Noah and the boys got off the ark. Some of the descendants of Shem, Ham and Japeth settled here (Hittites) long before any such thing as an Israelite ever existed.
> 
> Races.. white oriental aryan arab negro anglo where did the Arab Israelite race exist?



What the????? I take it your joking, and i hope you are.

Arabs are not Aryans. I don't know where you pulled that awkward claim from. In order to be classified as a Aryan, you need to have *Aryan r1a1a gene as well as Aryan facial or bodily features (doesn't necessarily have to be white skin blonde hair)*.

*These are Aryans:*



























Notice the Aryan facial features such as Skull Structure, Sharp and pointy nose, naturally straight hair, tall well built body, these are Aryans or sub groups of Aryan people who reside in Afghanistan and Northern Pakistan.


Arabs are Semites, in the same classification as Jews, Ethiopians, Somolians. Just look at Arab facial and bodily features like their naturally curly hair, hooked noses and their lips.

*These are Arabs:
*

Arab Jews

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## BLACKEAGLE

JEskandari said:


> does anybody knew whats wrong with this topic I cant see after page 46 in firefox



Use Google chrome.


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## p(-)0ENiX

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Use Google chrome.



I can confirm it occurs on Google Chrome as well sometimes, however it's functioning fine for me today.


----------



## The SC

Desert Fox said:


> What the????? I take it your joking, and i hope you are.
> 
> Arabs are not Aryans. I don't know where you pulled that awkward claim from. In order to be classified as a Aryan, you need to have *Aryan r1a1a gene as well as Aryan facial or bodily features (doesn't necessarily have to be white skin blonde hair)*.
> 
> 
> *These are Aryans:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice the Aryan facial features such as Skull Structure, Sharp and pointy nose, naturally straight hair, tall well built body, these are Aryans or sub groups of Aryan people who reside in Afghanistan and Northern Pakistan.
> 
> 
> Arabs are Semites, in the same classification as Jews, Ethiopians, Somolians. Just look at Arab facial and bodily features like their naturally curly hair, hooked noses and their lips.
> 
> *These are Arabs:
> *
> 
> Arab Jews



Obviously, you never visited an Arab state or did much travel in your life.
I repeat Semitic is a language and Arabic is the closest you can find to Aramaic (with proofs and pics) and the human features you are showing can be found almost every where, so Either you believe in idiotic ideas or you like you own ignorance.
I repeat there is one human genome and the genes are in every human either dominant or recessive.
I told you that original Arabs had Aryan origins with proofs, if you want you can do a thorough search on it and find out.
If you want to keep believing 18th century western genetics that is your business.

If you are trolling, please keep it for yourself.

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## The SC

JEskandari said:


> Very beautiful ,I always loved Calligraphy . by the way did you knew that Persian Calligraphy was the epitome of Islamic calligraphy . lets look t how is our technique
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and this is from 2 century before Islam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at these styles that have been invented by Persians
> 
> 
> and as you see in this link the calligraphy is more revered in Turkey , Iran and India
> Islamic calligraphy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



very nice indeed.

Noble Calligraphers

The lines of calligraphers have neither beginning nor end as they constantly link and unlink. The calligrapher's work lies in search of the absolute; his aim is to penetrate the sense of truth in an infinite movement so as to go beyond the existing world and thus achieve union with God.

-- Salah al-Ali (quotes in Musee d'art et d'histoire. "Islamic Calligraphy: Sacred and Secular Writings". Catalog of an exhibition held at the Musee d'art et d'histoire, Geneva and other locations 1988-1989, p. 30)

Calligraphers were dedicated to their work. David James writes in Sacred and Secular Writings (1988, p.22) that calligraphers often wrote, not at a small table but seated on the floor, holding the paper on their knees and supporting it with a piece of cardboard. Calligraphers had to be trained from a young age, sometimes from childhood; they studied examples called mufradat which had the letters of the alphabet written out singly and in combination with other letters.

The great calligraphers could write perfectly even without the proper tools and materials. Although a calligraphic master might be deprived of the use of his preferred hand either as a punishment or in the battle field, he would learn to write equally well with his other hand. When the other hand failed him, he would astound his admirers by using his mouth or feet to hold the pen.

An aspiring scribe would observe his predecessors' art very carefully. To perfect his touch, sharpen his skills, and find a style of his preference, the scribe would imitate the masters of calligraphy with a diligent hand. Welch (1979, p. 34) cites the following quote from the Sultan Ali's treatise on calligraphy:

Collect the writing of the masters,
Throw a glance at this and at that,
For whomsoever you feel a natural attraction,
Besides his writing, you must not look at others,
So that your eye should become saturated with his writing,
And because of his writing each of your letters should
become like a pearl.

al-Bawwab reproduced the writing of Ibn Muqlah so exactly that his employer, the Buyid amir Baha' ad-Dawlah of Shiraz, could not tell the difference.

Arabic calligraphers integrate inner experiences with their experiences of external reality. By imbuing strokes with life and feeling, an equilibrium of energy flows from all composing elements. A calligrapher's integration of inner and external realities results in a very personalized style and is accompanied by concentrated and unremitting scholarly study. The development of a calligraphy style is as unique as the calligrapher's personality, and its achievement is considered as the representation of the individual's self-cultivation.

It is fascinating to think how great calligraphers such as Ibn Muqlah, Ibn al-Bawwab, and Yaqut al-Musta'simi strove for knowledge and made use of all possible resources from the past.

In almost all of the Arabic scripts, the spacing between lines and words overflows with a sense of freedom and a flexibility that reveals the creativity and spontaneity of the calligrapher. Through the calligrapher's momentum and sense of balance, a tranquil harmony is achieved that immediately appeals to the mind and to the heart.

Arabic Calligraphy, Introduction

About Cuneiform Sumerian Alphabet
Cuneiform Writing





Cuneiform script is one of the oldest known writing forms. It emerged in &#8216;Sumer&#8217; and is also known as the &#8216;sumerian cuneiform&#8217;. Sumer is a region located in Southern Iraq. The script emerged from 30th century BC and was used simply to write the Sumerian language. Cuneiform developed and swept, moving from Sumer to areas such as the middle east and Egypt.

Each letter in cuneiform is made from wedged-shaped strokes that are inscribed on clay or sometimes other materials such as wax, stone or metal.
This Ugarit script was commonly written on clay tablets. The alphabet was used in the Ugarit city, Western Syria from abound 1300 BC. It is a form of Cuneiform writing. Ugarit was commonly written from left to right and in horizontal rows. In a sentence, words were divided by a slash, no punctuation was used. Ugarit is a Semitic language that is related to Phoenician. 

Talking about clear cut writing:

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## p(-)0ENiX

Here is some interesting research on genetic studies in the Arabian peninsula. 

The paper is called "Local Population Structure in Arabian Peninsula Revealed by Y-STR Diversity". It was published in 2009.

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteD...48345&ProduktNr=224250&filename=000210448.pdf

I am still reading it myself.

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## Desert Fox

The SC said:


> Obviously, you never visited an Arab state or did much travel in your life.
> I repeat Semitic is a language and Arabic is the closest you can find to Aramaic (with proofs and pics) and the human features you are showing can be found almost every where, so Either you believe in idiotic ideas or you like you own ignorance.
> I repeat there is one human genome and the genes are in every human either dominant or recessive.
> I told you that original Arabs had Aryan origins with proofs, if you want you can do a thorough search on it and find out.
> If you want to keep believing 18th century western genetics that is your business.
> 
> If you are trolling, please keep it for yourself.



Lolz, who's trolling? I'm only refuting your nonsensical claims, your claim that Arabs (who are Semites) had Aryan "*origins*" is laughable at best.

*Arabs claim to be descendants of Ishmael, son of Abraham (as), so now prove to me that Ishmael and Abraham (as) were Aryans since you claim Arabs have Aryan origins! Any proof?*


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## Desert Fox

*Arabs (Semites):*


























*Aryans:*


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## The SC

You must be sick at least!
Read all my other posts in this thread you will find you answer and proofs.
Or you can only see your face and compare it to blue eyed people.

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## Desert Fox

The SC said:


> You must be sick at least!


Nope, that's you, shall i prescribe a psychiatrist? I'll look up a few in Canada for you.



The SC said:


> Read all my other posts in this thread you will find you answer and proofs.



So you are not going to refute what i said in my previous post:

*"Arabs claim to be descendants of Ishmael, son of Abraham (as), so now prove to me that Ishmael and Abraham (as) were Aryans since you claim Arabs have Aryan origins! Any proof?"*



The SC said:


> Or you can only see your face and compare it to blue eyed people.


I don't need to, i'm not the one claiming Aryan origins lolz.

Though i wouldn't be surprised if i did have Aryan origins since i'm a Pashtun and my elders are from Afghanistan.

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## p(-)0ENiX

Desert Fox said:


> Lolz, who's trolling? I'm only refuting your nonsensical claims, your claim that Arabs (who are Semites) had Aryan "*origins*" is laughable at best.
> 
> Arabs claim to be descendants of Ishmael, son of Abraham (as), so now prove to me that Ishmael and Abraham (as) were Aryans since you claim Arabs have Aryan origins! Any proof?



I mentioned the sons of Noah; Shem, Ham, & Japheth in my previous posts on this thread. Both Shem & Japheth are fathers of Caucasians, but the bloodlines divide after Noah.

The Children of Shem are those that historically spoke Semitic languages as their original tongue whereas the Children of Japheth are those that historically spoke Indo-European languages. 

Of course there was inter-mixture as the Children of Shem & Japheth married with each other once in a while. For example Madai, the son of Japheth & grandson of Noah, married the daughter of Shem meaning that he married his cousin. Madai is traditionally believed to be the father of the Indo-Aryan people in general.

The Family Of Japheth


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## Icewolf

Mughal Empire was the strongest empire in South Asia.

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## The SC

Desert Fox said:


> Nope, that's you, shall i prescribe a psychiatrist? I'll look up a few in Canada for you.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are not going to refute what i said in my previous post:
> 
> *"Arabs claim to be descendants of Ishmael, son of Abraham (as), so now prove to me that Ishmael and Abraham (as) were Aryans since you claim Arabs have Aryan origins! Any proof?"*
> 
> 
> I don't need to, i'm not the one claiming Aryan origins lolz.
> 
> Though i wouldn't be surprised if i did have Aryan origins since i'm a Pashtun and my elders are from Afghanistan.



You have got you answer in post 723, and not even from me.
But I won't forget your insolence and make sure you get a psychiatrist in Pakistan, along with your family in Canada.


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## Hack-Hook

If you guys want to get these biblical stories to their word value then the world only was made 5500 year ago don't forget these stories are heavily influenced by Sumerian stories .well clearly Homo sapiens sapiens date more than 5000 year ago
about Caucasians as I posted before according to the language studies northern Caucasians have some relation to Mesopotamian but it's not the case with southern Caucasian

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## Desert Fox

The SC said:


> You have got you answer in post 723, and not even from me.


That is not proof since their is no scientific evidence to prove it, and neither does it say that in the Quran.



The SC said:


> But I won't forget your insolence and make sure you get a psychiatrist in Pakistan, along with your family in Canada.



Lolz, i don't even live in canada you loser, go and vent your frustration at the psychiatric facility.


----------



## p(-)0ENiX

Desert Fox said:


> That is not proof since their is no scientific evidence to prove it, and neither does it say that in the Quran.



I posted this earlier, you can check out these links, here is a family tree of the Prophets:

http://heshamsyed.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/family-tree-of-prophets.gif

Notice the sons of Noah.

Sam is Shem, Yafid is Japheth.


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## Feyen

Arabs Aryans? Hahaha! True Iranian Aryans:

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## The SC

Desert Fox said:


> That is not proof since their is no scientific evidence to prove it, and neither does it say that in the Quran.
> 
> 
> 
> Lolz, i don't even live in canada you loser, go and vent your frustration at the psychiatric facility.



So the koran tells you about the origins of the Arabs!

You must really be some wanabe intellectual.
I asked you nicely to read my previous posts in this thread to help you see something different than what you think you know for sure, with scientific proof.
But I know from life experience that a looser remains always a looser, like a donkey with covers on his eyes, he knows his route by heart, but no one expects it to understand anything else.
Your Insults are a proof to me of what you think about yourself subconsciously; that you are a looser and have too many frustrations to vent on people.
BUT,
To tell you the truth I do not like to Insult my fellow Muslims, to the contrary I wish them the best in all walks of life and I have been working on that for most of my life, and I will be doing it despite short minded people till my passing away.

Koran does not talk about Ismael and Isaak as semitic or aryan, and how many descendants from isaak became muslims and from ismael became jews and so on. This has nothing to do with the fact that I was debating about the semitic language as a language not a race.
There is no such thing as race in the human genome.
Blacks are black and have large nasals because of adaptation to nature , they had to breath large quantity of air in the desert to be able to survive, their dark skinned colour was meant to protect them from the sun also, on the other hand people living in the cold areas of the globe developed white skins to be able to absorb the maximum of sunlight, and small nasals to protect their lungs and all the colours in between did the same thing to survive at optimum.
All this is said in a few words in the koran, that God likes his creatures and he is *the* *Most Gracious, the Most Merciful*

So here is the scientific proof beyond any doubt and the answer from the koran.
This is very deep understanding of the Koran based on scientific proof.

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

The SC said:


> Iranians will slap you on the face if you say this in Iran, you can say it under the protection of England (maybe) but be careful of your words even in England.
> You stated in many cases that you were an atheist and you are hanging on to your culture of the *ancient* Persian empire.
> This shows how ancient and low you are in your life.



I say it in Iran all the time when I visit. LOL at this shutor.
who slaps me.
go to Iran and say we have no culture and see what will happen to you.


----------



## Sir Shawn

Surenas said:


> I would call them one of the most strongest muslim countries. Military they are, but when you're talking about influence in other countries Iran is ahead of Turkey.
> 
> 
> 
> They are not Arabs. Name one historian who call them Arabs. Even Zawi Hawass say this:
> 
> 
> 
> Another fail.



Zahi Hawass is no longer in charge of anything. He is also a very detested individual in the field of Egyptology because he is a power hungry loon who thinks the world revolves around what him.

Someone referenced his opinion earlier where he is claiming that the ancient Egyptians were not black, but in his national Geographic interview from 2008 he stated that HE DID NOT KNOW what color they were and could not simply base it off of artwork.


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## Sir Shawn

Desert Fox said:


> What's so racist about the truth?
> 
> What civilization did Africans build? Did they have a written language as the Europeans and Asians did?



WOOO someone needs to pick up a book! Have you ever heard of Songhai, Axum, Ghana, Nok, Timbuktu, Karem Bornu, Benin, Kemet, Nubia? These were amongst the most powerful and richest civilizations on the face of the Earth. Some ancient West African civilizations established trade networks as far as China! Prior it's destruction by British cannons in the late 1800's the Wall of Benin (west Africa) was the largest man made structure on Earth (recorded by the Guinness book of World Records). 

Also don't let Western and Northern Europeans relatively recent surge in world politics fool you. They lack any BC history including written languages. Also the ancient Egyptians and Nubians (black Africans) created their written much earlier than anything seen in most Europe. 



> Look at Haiti, a Black country that got its independence from France a few decades after the United States got its independence from Britain, yet Haiti still remains in shambles while USA has become a super power.



You are aware that for the vast majority of Haiti's history it has been politically and economically *OSTRACIZED * by every single one of it's neighbors due to that very rebellion which freed them from French colonial rule. Prior to the 1960's Haiti had to pay the United States a fee every year to *STAY FREE*! Once again picking up a book about these subjects would really enlighten you.


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## Sir Shawn

Surenas said:


> You're African?



The Romans learned from the Greeks, who admittedly learned from the Egyptians who were black Africans. Therefore this is a fail!

The to mention the fact that Romans themselves were Barbaric in nature.

Many of comments stated in this thread regarding African history needs to seriously addressed and refuted.



ARSENAL6 said:


> THere is a thing called google and books
> 
> Here is a start the Pharos.



Thank you!


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Sir Shawn said:


> Zahi Hawass is no longer in charge of anything. He is also a very detested individual in the field of Egyptology because he is a power hungry loon who thinks the world revolves around what him.
> 
> Someone referenced his opinion earlier where he is claiming that the ancient Egyptians were not black, but in his national Geographic interview from 2008 he stated that HE DID NOT KNOW what color they were and could not simply base it off of artwork.


if you are so smart can you tell me where is the egyptian people now ? disappered ?so you are saying the black african have build the pyramids and ruled egypt for a while then leave egypt and the 85 milion egyptian today are from space

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## The SC

Ancient Africa's Black Kingdoms

[video]http://www.yousabi.com/video/515/Ancient-Africas-Black-Kingdoms[/video]






#1 African History - The Nok 





#2 African History - Ile Ife


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## BLACKEAGLE

Feyen said:


> Arabs Aryans? Hahaha! True Iranian Aryans:



YAH, TOO ARYAN...


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## PERSIAN GOD KING

Aryan means to be from Iran, it does not matter what you look like.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

The SC said:


> Ancient Africa's Black Kingdoms
> 
> [video]http://www.yousabi.com/video/515/Ancient-Africas-Black-Kingdoms[/video]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #1 African History - The Nok
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #2 African History - Ile Ife


i am not racist and i defend africa but for someone to qustion your ancastors and say like many ignorent people say that the people of ancant egypt are gone and that we are arabs then i wont just shut up and let him

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## BLACKEAGLE

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> Aryan means to be from Iran, it does not matter what you look like.




What?! proooooooof plz...


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## The SC

African Civilizations Part 2: Nigeria 





When Black Ruled The World


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## agentny17

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> i am not racist and i defend africa but for someone to qustion your ancastors and say like many ignorent people say that the people of ancant egypt are gone and that we are arabs then i wont just shut up and let him


We are Africans, and ancient Egyptian civilization is an African civilization, not necessary black. 

DNA studies on modern Egyptians. Egypt has experienced several invasions during its history. However, these do not seem to account for more than about *10% overall of the ancestry of current Egyptians* when the DNA evidence of the ancient mitochondrial DNA and modern Y chromosomes is considered. While *Afrocentrists* such as Ivan van Sertima argue that the Egyptians were primarily Africoid before the many conquests of Egypt diluted the Africanity of the Egyptian people,[29] other scholars such as Frank Yurco believe that Modern Egyptians are largely representative of the ancient population, and the DNA evidence appears to strongly support this view.[30]

Various DNA studies have found that the gene frequencies of modern North African populations are intermediate between those of the Horn of Africa and Sub Saharan Africa while often bearing stronger affinities to North African ones,[31] though possessing a greater genetic affinity with the populations of North Africa than they do with Sub Saharan Africa.[32][32][33][34][35][36]

Luis, Rowold et al. found that the diverse NRY haplotypes observed in a population of mixed Arabs and Berbers found that the majority of haplogroups, about 60.5% were of Saharan origin. They found that markers signaling the Nilo Saharan expansion from the Afro-Asian constitute the predominant component. The remaining 39.5% were clades that belonged to Haplogroup E1b1b, found exclusively amongst the populations of the Horn of Africa and the Mediterranean basin. E1b1b and its derivatives are characteristic of some Afro-Asiatic speakers and is believed to have originated in either the Near East, North Africa, or the Horn of Africa.[37][38]

A study by Krings et al. from 1999 on mitochondrial DNA clines along the Nile Valley found that a Eurasian cline runs from Northern Egypt to Southern Sudan.[39] Similarly, an mtDNA study of people from the Gurna region near Thebes in Southern Egypt revealed that North African haplogroups represented 61% of the population, with the remainder 39% being of Ethiopic origin. The oral tradition of the Gurna people indicates that they, like most modern day Egyptians, descend from the Ancient Egyptians [40]

A 2009 study on modern Upper (Southern) Egyptians using comparisons based on frequency and molecular data found that :[41]

&#8220; *No differences were observed in comparison with a general caucasian population from Cairo in any of the nine loci compared, or with Egyptian Coptic Christians from Cairo*&#8230;Multi-dimensional scaling (MDS) based on pair-wise FST genetic distances of Upper Egyptian and other diverse global populations. OCE, Oceanian; ME, Middle Eastern; NAF, North African; EAS, East Asian; SSA, sub-Saharan African; UEGY, Upper Egyptian; SAS, South Asian; EUR, European. The figure shows that Oceania and American populations are very distant from Upper Egyptians (marked by a grey triangle) and other populations. The Upper Egyptian population is closer to the North African, South Asian and European populations than others. &#8221; 


The results of these genetic studies is consistent with the historical record, which records significant bidirectional contact between Egypt and the Levant/Near East within the last few thousand years, but with general population continuity from the Early Dynastic period up to the modern day era.[39][42]


Population history of Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## The SC

Nubia the forgotten kingdom 1 





Nubia the forgotten kingdom 2 





Nubia the forgotten kingdom 3 
[video]http://ww.youtube.com/watch?v=IDm_TjiCL6g&feature=relmfu[/video]

Nubia the forgotten kingdom 4





Nubia the forgotten kingdom 5 





Nubia the forgotten kingdom 6


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## PERSIAN GOD KING

BLACKEAGLE said:


> What?! proooooooof plz...



If you read all my comment you would now the proof.

The oldest inscription about aryans is in Iran, a place called behistoon.
and according to that, to be aryan is to be from Iran land( then known as persian).

dates back to about 2600 years ago.


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## The SC

You are right some how,

Ary·an adj.
Word History:* It is one of the ironies of history that Aryan, a word nowadays referring to the blond-haired, blue-eyed physical ideal of Nazi Germany, originally referred to a people who looked vastly different.* Its history starts with the ancient Indo-Iranians, Indo-European peoples who inhabited parts of what are now Iran, Afghanistan, and India. Their tribal self-designation was a word reconstructed as *arya- or *rya-. The first of these is the form found in Iranian, as ultimately in *the name of Iran itself (from Middle Persian rn (ahr), "(Land) of the Iranians," from the genitive plural of Er, "Iranian"). The variant *rya- is found unchanged in Sanskrit, where it referred to the upper crust of ancient Indian society*. These words became known to European scholars in the 18th century. The shifting of meaning that eventually led to the present-day sense started in the 1830s, when Friedrich Schlegel, a German scholar who was an important early Indo-Europeanist, came up with a theory that linked the Indo-Iranian words with the German word Ehre, "honor," and older Germanic names containing the element ario-, such as the Swiss warrior Ariovistus who was written about by Julius Caesar. Schlegel theorized that far from being just a designation of the Indo-Iranians, the word *arya- had in fact been what the Indo-Europeans called themselves, meaning something like "the honorable people." (This theory has since been called into question.) Thus "Aryan" came to be synonymous with "Indo-European," and in this sense entered the general scholarly consciousness of the day. Not much later, it was proposed that the original homeland of the Indo-Europeans had been in northern Europe. From this theory, it was but a small leap to think of the Aryans as having had a northern European physiotype. While these theories were playing themselves out, certain anti-Semitic scholars in Germany took to viewing the Jews in Germany as the main non-Aryan people because of their Semitic roots; a distinction thus arose in their minds between Jews and the "true Aryan" Germans, a distinction that later furnished unfortunate fodder for the racial theories of the Nazis.






The earliest epigraphically-attested reference to the word arya occurs in the 6th century B.C. Behistun inscription, which describes itself to have been composed "in arya [language or script]" (§ 70). As is also the case for all other Old Iranian language usage, the arya of the inscription does not signify anything but "Iranian".[2]


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## The SC

Indus Valley Civilization






The Indus Valley is one of the world's earliest urban civilizations, along with its contemporaries, Mesopotamia and Ancient Egypt. At its peak, the Indus Civilization may have had a population of well over five million. Inhabitants of the ancient Indus river valley developed new techniques in metallurgy and handicraft (carneol products, seal carving) and produced copper, bronze, lead, and tin. The civilization is noted for its cities built of brick, roadside drainage system, and multistoried houses.

Indus Valley Civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## IbnAlwaled

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> Aryan means to be from Iran, it does not matter what you look like.


No, Iran was always called Persia, but in the 1930's you changed it to Iran to say you are Aryans and a lot of Persians didn't like that.Name of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't know why Iran has so many Identity problems. Some say we are Muslim and others say no that's Arab religion. Some say we are Aryans and others say no we are not.



Mahmoud_EGY said:


> i am not racist and i defend africa but for someone to qustion your ancastors and say like many ignorent people say that the people of ancant egypt are gone and that we are arabs then i wont just shut up and let him


NEWS FLASH!!!
ALL Egyptians claim to be Arab. Except maybe Copts.


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## The SC

Mesopotamia - HISTORIC CONNECTIONS

Mesopotamia



Ancient Persia between ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia and the Hindus valley.
No wonder it was a great civilisation.


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## The SC

IbnAlwaled said:


> No, Iran was always called Persia, but in the 1930's you changed it to Iran to say you are Aryans and a lot of Persians didn't like that.Name of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> I don't know why Iran has so many Identity problems. Some say we are Muslim and others say no that's Arab religion. Some say we are Aryans and others say no we are not.
> 
> 
> NEWS FLASH!!!
> ALL Egyptians claim to be Arab. Except maybe Copts.



Most of the Iranians who claim they are not Muslims are either of Zoroastrian religion, Jewish, Christian or other religions groups or even atheists, and all they represent is 2% of the population of Iran.



Recent DNA studies have indicated that ancient Egyptians had an approximate 90% genetic commonality with modern Egyptians, which would make the current population largely representative of the ancient inhabitants.[4]

Position of modern scholarship
Main article: Population history of Egypt

Modern scholars who have studied Ancient Egyptian culture and population history have responded to the controversy over the race of the Ancient Egyptians in different ways. The focus of some experts who study population biology has been to consider whether or not the Ancient Egyptians were primarily biologically North African rather than to which race they belonged.[119]

It is now largely agreed that Dynastic Egyptians were indigenous to the Nile area. About 5,000 years ago the Sahara area dried out, and part of the indigenous Saharan population retreated East towards the Nile Valley. In addition Neolithic farmers from the Near East are known to have entered the Nile Valley, bringing with them their food crops, sheep, goats and cattle.[120][121] Fekri Hassan and Edwin et al. point to mutual influence from both inner Africa as well as the Levant.[122]

Dynastic Egyptians referred to their country as "The Two Lands". During the Predynastic period (about 4800 to 4300BC) the Merimde culture flourished in the northern part of Egypt (Lower Egypt).[123] This culture, among others, has links to the Levant in the Near East.[124] The pottery of the later Buto Maadi culture, best known from the site at Maadi near Cairo, also shows connections to the southern Levant.[125] In the southern part of Egypt (Upper Egypt) the predynastic Badarian culture was followed by the Naqada culture. These people seem to be more closely related to the Nubians and North East Africans than with northern Egyptians.[126][127]

Due to its geographical location at the crossroads of several major cultural areas, Egypt has experienced a number of foreign invasions during historical times, including by the Canaanites (Hyksos), the Libyans, the Kushites (Nubians) the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Macedonian Greeks, the Romans, Byzantium, the Arabs, the Ottoman Turks, the French and the British.

UNESCO convened the "Symposium on the Peopling of Ancient Egypt and the Deciphering of the Meroitic Script" in Cairo in 1974. At that forum the "Black Egyptian" theory was rejected by 90% of delegates,[128][129] and the symposium concluded that Ancient Egyptians were much the same as modern Egyptians. The arguments for all sides are recorded in the UNESCO publication General History of Africa,[128] with the "Origin of the Egyptians" chapter being written by Diop.

More recent comparisons between the DNA of both modern and ancient Egyptians would appear to support the UNESCO view that modern Egyptians are genetically much the same as the ancient population.[4]

In 1996, the Indianapolis Museum of Art published a collection of essays, which included contributions from leading experts in various fields including archaeology, art history, physical anthropology, African studies, Egyptology, Afrocentric studies, linguistics, and classical studies. While the contributors differed in some opinions, the consensus of the authors was that Ancient Egypt was a North African civilization (although ethnic type was not mentioned), based on Egypt's geographic location on the African continent.
Ancient Egyptian race controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## IbnAlwaled

The SC said:


> Most of the Iranians who claim they are not Muslims are either of Zoroastrian religion, Jewish, Christian or other religions groups or even atheists, and all they represent is 2% of the population of Iran.
> 
> Ancient Egyptian race controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Most Iranian youth are Atheists, you can thank the Iranian government for that.
As for Egyptians, it has nothing to do with race, I explained this a thousand times.
While most Egyptians in Sina and Saed trace themselves to Arab tribes, the rest were Arabized. It means they adopted the Arab language/culture.
Leave it to the Iranians to look at everything through race lenses.


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## Hack-Hook

IbnAlwaled said:


> No, Iran was always called Persia, but in the 1930's you changed it to Iran to say you are Aryans and a lot of Persians didn't like that.Name of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> I don't know why Iran has so many Identity problems. Some say we are Muslim and others say no that's Arab religion. Some say we are Aryans and others say no we are not.



you don't get it it have been Iran all the time ,now if European called it with wrong name all these time it's not our problem ,in 1930 we asked them to please call it with correct name .

by the way as proof you can go and read Ferdowsi Shahnameh which is date to more than 1000 years ago and you'll see in all of it it called our land as Iran-Zamin (land of Iran) but never as Persia . from old time only the land in central southern part of our country were called Pars the location of today's Fars Province


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## The SC

IbnAlwaled said:


> Most Iranian youth are Atheists, you can thank the Iranian government for that.
> As for Egyptians, it has nothing to do with race, I explained this a thousand times.
> While most Egyptians in Sina and Saed trace themselves to Arab tribes, the rest were Arabized. It means they adopted the Arab language/culture.
> Leave it to the Iranians to look at everything through race lenses.



what makes you say that about Iranian youth? please elaborate, because I have a different view confirmed by the late elections, and by knowing personally that most of them are pious, but they do not look like it and they are modern in their thinking inside the norms of Islam. I know also that Saudi youth are like that too but unfortunately the western Influence is Absorbed a bit too blindly, so, prudence is required since Mecca and Medina are a trust between your hands and not the hands of any foreign influence to Islam.


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## Mahmoud_EGY

IbnAlwaled said:


> Most Iranian youth are Atheists, you can thank the Iranian government for that.
> As for Egyptians, it has nothing to do with race, I explained this a thousand times.
> While most Egyptians in Sina and Saed trace themselves to Arab tribes, the rest were Arabized. It means they adopted the Arab language/culture.
> Leave it to the Iranians to look at everything through race lenses.


what are you talking about what culture did we take from you it is egypt who change arabs culture not the other way 
exept bedwen we are all egyptian


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## Henry

United States Only!


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## Ottoman-Turk




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## JanjaWeed

List is incomplete without Persian empire during the period of Cyrus the great whose empire spread three continents, Macedon empire headed by Alexander the Great who conquered then known world by the time he was 30, Genghis khan's mongol empire which became the largest contiguous empire in the history & ofcourse Roman empire which lasted over 500yrs.


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## Ottoman-Turk

i made this list and it was STRONGEST EMPIRES BY TIMELINE but people went trolling and started fighting , when easily its obvious which is strongest by timeline , debatable when its Overall Strongest


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## Cloakedvessel

Ottoman-Turk said:


>


 
This one looks more accurate:

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## JanjaWeed

@ottoman-turk. post # 757. Could be. but all those empires you listed belongs to AD. If you go back & look at the history... Ahcaemenid empire (persian) lasted good couple of hundred years between 550 to 330BC & cyrus the great is universally regarded as the greatest military leader ever, even ahead of Alexander the great. Same goes to Roman empire, history of which stretched to 1000yrs since the day Roman monarchy founded in 753BC & ended in 509BC, Roman republic began in 509BC & ended in 27BC... empire started in 27Bc & continued on for 500yrs. But there was continuous 1000yr + Roman rule under one form or other.
Sadly greek & mongol empire depended on individual brilliance & faded once the chaismatic leaders Alexander the great & ghengis Khan met their end.


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## Ottoman-Turk

haha no its not the reason in that map arabia isnt included is because it was just desert but still land therefore it wasnt put in map( this was told to me by a person who knows alot) that is not at 1683 its greatest extent , plus that is a joke because any turk will know that ottomans controlled HABESISTAN which was land below Egypt even anyone who knows ottoman empire will know that plus i dont care if we controlled all of africa , the only thing is THE LAND WE CONTROLLED IN EUROPE WHICH IS THE STRONGEST UNITY TODAY THE EUROPEON UNION , ALL BALKANS , HUNGARY , SOME OF AUSTRIA , WENT EVEN TOWARDS RUSSIA , POLAND , FOUGHT THE STRONGEST COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD , COMBINED HOLY ROMAN LEAGUE , SPANISH EMPIRE , POLAND LITHUANIAN COMMENWEALTH HASBURGS



Cloakedvessel said:


> This one looks more accurate:



letter by french king to sultan suleiman begging for help 


&#8220;I, sultan of sultans, king of kings, the shadow of God who bestows the crown to the monarchs on earth, the supreme ruler of the Mediterranean and Black Seas, the Balkans and Anatolia, Azerbaijan, Damascus and Halep, Egypt, Mecca and Medina, Jerusalem, and all of the Arab dominions, and Yemen, and the sultan and the supreme king of many nations, 

I am the son of Sultan Selim Khan and grandson of Sultan Bayezid Khan, and you, King Francis, are the governor of the French province.

You have sent to my Gate, the sanctuary of many kings, a letter by the hand of your faithful servant Frangipani. He has made known to me how the enemy overran your country, so you are now a captive. You have asked aid, for your deliverance. All this your saying having been set forth at the foot of my throne, which controls the world. Your situation has gained my imperial understanding in every detail, and I have considered all of it. 

There is nothing astonishing in emperors being defeated and made captive. Keep your heart content and do not grieve. In these situations our glorious predecessors and illustrious ancestors, may God keep alight their tombs, never ceased from making war to drive back their foe and conquer his lands. We ourselves have followed their path; we have at every time conquered provinces and citadels both great in strength and in difficulty of approach. By night as well as by day our horse is always saddled, and our saber ever girded on.

May God the Most High advance righteousness! May His will, whatsoever it portends, be accomplished. For the rest, ask it from your envoy and be informed. Know that it will be as said.&#8221; 






this is response by him

GREAT SELJUK EMPIRE


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## Carlos 'Cypher' Renato

No one talked about the Iberian Union?


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## Ottoman-Turk

Hi mate , i dont really know much about it what isit exactly ? union like EU of latin america and spain and portugal



Carlos 'Cypher' Renato said:


> No one talked about the Iberian Union?


----------



## Cloakedvessel

Ottoman-Turk said:


> haha no its not the reason in that map arabia isnt included is because it was just desert but still land therefore it wasnt put in map( this was told to me by a person who knows alot) that is not at 1683 its greatest extent , plus that is a joke because any turk will know that ottomans controlled HABESISTAN which was land below Egypt even anyone who knows ottoman empire will know that plus i dont care if we controlled all of africa , the only thing is THE LAND WE CONTROLLED IN EUROPE WHICH IS THE STRONGEST UNITY TODAY THE EUROPEON UNION , ALL BALKANS , HUNGARY , SOME OF AUSTRIA , WENT EVEN TOWARDS RUSSIA , POLAND , FOUGHT THE STRONGEST COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD , COMBINED HOLY ROMAN LEAGUE , SPANISH EMPIRE , POLAND LITHUANIAN COMMENWEALTH HASBURGS
> 
> 
> 
> letter by french king to sultan suleiman begging for help
> 
> 
> &#8220;I, sultan of sultans, king of kings, the shadow of God who bestows the crown to the monarchs on earth, the supreme ruler of the Mediterranean and Black Seas, the Balkans and Anatolia, Azerbaijan, Damascus and Halep, Egypt, Mecca and Medina, Jerusalem, and all of the Arab dominions, and Yemen, and the sultan and the supreme king of many nations,
> 
> I am the son of Sultan Selim Khan and grandson of Sultan Bayezid Khan, and you, King Francis, are the governor of the French province.
> 
> You have sent to my Gate, the sanctuary of many kings, a letter by the hand of your faithful servant Frangipani. He has made known to me how the enemy overran your country, so you are now a captive. You have asked aid, for your deliverance. All this your saying having been set forth at the foot of my throne, which controls the world. Your situation has gained my imperial understanding in every detail, and I have considered all of it.
> 
> There is nothing astonishing in emperors being defeated and made captive. Keep your heart content and do not grieve. In these situations our glorious predecessors and illustrious ancestors, may God keep alight their tombs, never ceased from making war to drive back their foe and conquer his lands. We ourselves have followed their path; we have at every time conquered provinces and citadels both great in strength and in difficulty of approach. By night as well as by day our horse is always saddled, and our saber ever girded on.
> 
> May God the Most High advance righteousness! May His will, whatsoever it portends, be accomplished. For the rest, ask it from your envoy and be informed. Know that it will be as said.&#8221;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is response by him
> 
> GREAT SELJUK EMPIRE



Are you sure your map depicts the real picture? I mean, part of Morocco? The whole of present day Libya, Algeria and Tunisia as pictured in your map in stead of relatively small strokes of these countries? And that too as vassal states? And Saudi-Arabia? The heartland of Saudi-Arabia has never been under Ottoman rule or influence, as far as I know, only the region of Hejaz and Al-Hasa, the latter from which the Ottomans were driven out in 1670 by Arab tribes. 

Your map says 1683. I can tell you that in 1683 Holland (and Belgium) were independent from the Spaniards, they gained it in 1648. Your map seems to be off at certain points.

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## Ottoman-Turk

saudi arabia was never controlled by ottoman? there was no saudi arabia , that peice of land was nothing important in those days which is why they are not shown in maps , todays saudi arabia was under full controll of ottomans whereby we would not impose anything on them but the sultan would appoint something like an imam who would control mekka and medina and other lands and sultan under ottoman land , basically something like a vizier specially for land of what is today SA as mekka and medina was there which was very important and as land was so far apart he appointed something like a vizier , driven out by arab tribes in 1670 ? you are wrong , i dont know about belgium and holland but we had the barbaross reis who did go into them parts of northern africa and had many naval battles with spaniards


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## northeast

most nomads countries fall in modern days expect turkey&#65292;because you are lucky that you are close to europe&#65292;you can get advanced military tech from europe easily.


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## Ottoman-Turk

northeast please stop dissing i dont have time to fight with you for hours like a kid , just respect and look at the pictures


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## northeast

Ottoman-Turk said:


> northeast please stop dissing i dont have time to fight with you for hours like a kid , just respect and look at the pictures


 Why must I respect you&#65311;
turks got their ***** kicked and run out of east asia by us and we have a much larger land mass than you.


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## Ottoman-Turk

lol know i no you are a little pus.. little kid , or a ugly little chinese d.. , you got spanked the most in the world , japanese who are 1/10th of you , vietnamese , russian and many more


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## northeast

Ottoman-Turk said:


> lol know i no you are a little pus.. little kid , or a ugly little chinese d.. , you got spanked the most in the world , japanese who are 1/10th of you , vietnamese , russian and many more


 
whatever you think&#65292;at least we didn't get spank and torn apart like pathetic ottoman.


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## Ottoman-Turk

hahaha i know 0 empires in the world that never got torn apart or fell apart


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## northeast

Ottoman-Turk said:


> hahaha i know 0 empires in the world that never got torn apart or fell apart


 
but why turkey turn into such a tiny country&#65311;


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## Ottoman-Turk

but why britian turn into a tiny island?
but why france turn into a tiny country?
but why roman turn into todays italy?



northeast said:


> but why turkey turn into such a tiny country&#65311;


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## Cloakedvessel

Ottoman-Turk said:


> saudi arabia was never controlled by ottoman? there was no saudi arabia , that peice of land was nothing important in those days which is why they are not shown in maps , todays saudi arabia was under full controll of ottomans whereby we would not impose anything on them but the sultan would appoint something like an imam who would control mekka and medina and other lands and sultan under ottoman land , basically something like a vizier specially for land of what is today SA as mekka and medina was there which was very important and as land was so far apart he appointed something like a vizier , driven out by arab tribes in 1670 ? you are wrong , i dont know about belgium and holland but we had the barbaross reis who did go into them parts of northern africa and had many naval battles with spaniards



All the maps seem to indicate that the Ottomans did not have any hold in the land between Hejaz and Al-Hasa at the greatest extent of the Ottoman empire. A few maps to illustrate:

















However Wikipedia shows this map:






But this represents the situation in 1914, not 1683. It's not accurate to say the interior land of the Arabian Peninsula was part of the Ottoman empire at its peak (direct or indirect rule as a vassal state), since this situation was only for a brief period of time in the beginning of the 20st century. An era in which the Ottomans had lost most of their territories in North Africa and Europe.

It's accurate to state that the region of Hejaz (Mecca and Medina), Asir (ruins of Turkish forts can still be viewed) and Al Hasa (although lost 1670 and regained in 19th century) were under Ottoman control when the empire was maximum in its extent, but not for the region of Najd, Oman or Yemen. So in my view your map is not correct.

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## northeast

Ottoman-Turk said:


> but why britian turn into a tiny island?
> but why france turn into a tiny country?
> but why roman turn into todays italy?


 
The point is ottoman got beaten up too.
we made all our neighbour our vassal countries then got unchallenged for hundreds of years.
the peace time was too long and could make any country weak.
so don't talk big.


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## northeast

Ottoman-Turk said:


> but why britian turn into a tiny island?
> but why france turn into a tiny country?
> but why roman turn into todays italy?



Empire Max Land area (million km2) 

British Empire 33.7
Mongol Empire 24.0
Russian Empire 22.8
Spanish Empire 20.0 
Qing Dynasty, China 14.7
Yuan Dynasty, China 14.0
Second French Colonial Empire 13.0 
Abbasid Caliphate 11.1 
Umayyad Caliphate 10.5 
Portuguese Empire 10.4 
Rashidun Caliphate 09.0 
Achaemenid Empire 08.75 
Empire of Brazil 08.5 
First French Colonial Empire 08.1 
Japanese Empire 07.4 
Ming Dynasty, China 06.5 
Han Dynasty, China 06.5 
Roman Empire 06.5 02.51 
Nazi Germany 06.4 02.47 
Göktürk Khaganate 06.0 
Golden Horde Khanate 06.0 
Macedonian Empire 05.2 
Ottoman Empire 05.2 
Mauryan Empire, India 05.0








if you add the land of vassal countries of china&#65292;it would be much greater.


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## Ottoman-Turk

mate if land mattered then today Australia , Canada , Russia would be no.1 or in history , land isnt a really big factor , there are small countries that are strong , that are rich 



northeast said:


> Empire Max Land area (million km2)
> 
> British Empire 33.7
> Mongol Empire 24.0
> Russian Empire 22.8
> Spanish Empire 20.0
> Qing Dynasty, China 14.7
> Yuan Dynasty, China 14.0
> Second French Colonial Empire 13.0
> Abbasid Caliphate 11.1
> Umayyad Caliphate 10.5
> Portuguese Empire 10.4
> Rashidun Caliphate 09.0
> Achaemenid Empire 08.75
> Empire of Brazil 08.5
> First French Colonial Empire 08.1
> Japanese Empire 07.4
> Ming Dynasty, China 06.5
> Han Dynasty, China 06.5
> Roman Empire 06.5 02.51
> Nazi Germany 06.4 02.47
> Göktürk Khaganate 06.0
> Golden Horde Khanate 06.0
> Macedonian Empire 05.2
> Ottoman Empire 05.2
> Mauryan Empire, India 05.0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if you add the land of vassal countries of china&#65292;it would be much greater.



I repeat , we did have that land however as that land was nothing and nobody lived there in them times , some mapes/most maps do not illustrate it , also how can we have that land in 1914 and not in 1683 is laughable , so we conquered that land after 1683 ? when we was stagnating after 1683 , plus i dont care if we had 0 land in africa for me the land in Europe matters as they were the strongest rivals and countries I DONT CARE IF MY COUNTRY RULED POWERLESS COUNTRIES , BUT IF THEY RULE A STRONG EUROPEON COUNTRY E.G HUNGARY/AUSTRIA ALL BALKANS ETC AT THAT TIME THAT MATTERS FOR ME



Cloakedvessel said:


> All the maps seem to indicate that the Ottomans did not have any hold in the land between Hejaz and Al-Hasa at the greatest extent of the Ottoman empire. A few maps to illustrate:
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> However Wikipedia shows this map:
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> 
> But this represents the situation in 1914, not 1683. It's not accurate to say the interior land of the Arabian Peninsula was part of the Ottoman empire at its peak (direct or indirect rule as a vassal state), since this situation was only for a brief period of time in the beginning of the 20st century. An era in which the Ottomans had lost most of their territories in North Africa and Europe.
> 
> It's accurate to state that the region of Hejaz (Mecca and Medina), Asir (ruins of Turkish forts can still be viewed) and Al Hasa (although lost 1670 and regained in 19th century) were under Ottoman control when the empire was maximum in its extent, but not for the region of Najd, Oman or Yemen. So in my view your map is not correct.


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## northeast

Ottoman-Turk said:


> mate if land mattered then today Australia , Canada , Russia would be no.1 or in history , land isnt a really big factor , there are small countries that are strong , that are rich


 
We've made all our neignbours our vassal countries&#65292;we've conquered mongols for more than 200 years.
have your ottoman achieved that&#65311;
ottoman never enjoyed the pleasure of conquering almost all his neighbours.
and turkey never have enjoyed the pleasure of the everlasting&#65288;hundreds of years&#65289;peace time.
But the long peace time make people weak and corrupt.that's why we get punished by japanese.


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## Cloakedvessel

Ottoman-Turk said:


> I repeat , we did have that land however as that land was nothing and nobody lived there in them times , some mapes/most maps do not illustrate it , also how can we have that land in 1914 and not in 1683 is laughable , so we conquered that land after 1683 ?



You don't need boots on the ground to exercise influence over a territory. It was not conquered, it became a vassal state briefly, after the emergence of rival Saudi clans in the Arab Peninsula, so the Ottomans supported one tribal group or the other. In return these tribal leaders acknowledged Ottoman control.



> when we was stagnating after 1683 , plus i dont care if we had 0 land in africa for me the land in Europe matters as they were the strongest rivals and countries I DONT CARE IF MY COUNTRY RULED POWERLESS COUNTRIES , BUT IF THEY RULE A STRONG EUROPEON COUNTRY E.G HUNGARY/AUSTRIA ALL BALKANS ETC AT THAT TIME THAT MATTERS FOR ME



But this is nothing unique. Greeks conquered the lands, Romans did it, Byzantines did it later on, Bulgarians erected an empire in the Balkans. And so did the Ottomans.

And if you praise the Ottomans because these defeated countries were strong, then you must respect Russia the most, since it had torn the Ottoman empire apart bit by bit?


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## RAJPUTAANA

A1Kaid said:


> Pakistan can be considered a successor of the Mughal Empire, Pakistan being the Muslim homeland of So Asia it holds the legacy of the Muslim Mughal Empire, hence I mentioned Mughals in my first post in the thread.
> 
> Even British historians agree Mughal empire was definitely one of the worlds strongest empires both militarily and economically.



 pakistanis contradicting themselves in each n every thread i visit........


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## vidalika the cat

The SC said:


> An empire involves the extension of a states sovereignty over external territories. the greatness of an empire is based on the extent, population, economy, duration and many other factors such as type of rule and government, satisfaction by its people etc. The calculation of the land area of a particular empire is controversial. In general, the sequence in list centers on all the aspects that make an empire mighty, strong and progressive and all the factors as mentioned that make a kingdom great.
> 
> 10. *Akkadian Empire (2300 BC2200 BC)
> *
> The Akkadian Empire (2334 BC to 2083 BC) was an empire centered in the city of Akkad and its surrounding region (in Ancient Iraq). The Akkadian state was the predecessor of the ethnic Akkadian states of Babylonia and Assyria; formed following centuries of Akkadian cultural synergy with others, it reached the height of its power between the 24th and 22nd centuries BC following the conquests of king Sargon of Akkad, and is sometimes regarded as the first manifestation of an empire in history.
> 
> It was the first empire to manifest on the earth.
> It reached record breaking size of its time and is considered the largest empire of dark ancient era  0.8 million km2 (2250 BC)
> 
> 
> 9. *Achaemenid Empire (550 BC330 BC) *
> 
> The Achaemenid Empire (ca. 550330 BC), also known as the Persian Empire, was the successor state of the Median Empire, ruling over significant portions of what would become Greater Iran. The Persian and the Median Empire taken together are also known as the Medo-Persian Empire, which encompassed the combined territories of several earlier empires. The empire was forged by Cyrus the Great, and spanned three continents: Asia, Africa and Europe. At its greatest extent, the empire included the territories of Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, parts of Central Asia, Asia Minor, Thrace and Macedonia, much of the Black Sea coastal regions, Iraq, northern Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Palestine, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, and all significant population centers of ancient Egypt as far west as Libya. It is noted in western history as the foe of the Greek city states during the Greco-Persian Wars, for emancipation of slaves including the Jews from their Babylonian captivity, and for instituting the usage of official languages throughout its territories. The Achaemenid Persian empire was invaded by Alexander III of Macedon, after which it collapsed and disintegrated in 330 BC into what later became the Ptolemaic Kingdom and Seleucid Empire, in addition to other minor territories which gained independence after its collapse.
> 
> It was the largest empire in ancient history. At the height of its power, the empire encompassed approximately 8 million km2
> In universal history the role of the Persian empire founded by Cyrus the Great lies in their very successful model for centralized administration and a government working to the advantage and profit of all.
> 
> 
> 8. *Roman Empire (27 BCAD 476/1453)
> *
> The Roman Empire was the post-Republican phase of the ancient Roman civilization, characterised by an autocratic form of government and large territorial holdings in Europe and around the Mediterranean. The Roman Republic, which preceded it, had been weakened and subverted through several civil wars. Several events are commonly proposed to mark the transition from Republic to Empire, including Julius Caesars appointment as perpetual dictator (44 BC), the Battle of Actium (2 September 31 BC), and the Roman Senates granting to Octavian the honorific Augustus (4 January 27 BC). Roman expansion began in the days of the Republic, but reached its zenith under Emperor Trajan. At this territorial peak, the Roman Empire controlled approximately 6.5 million km² of land surface. Because of the Empires vast extent and long endurance, Roman influence upon the language, religion, architecture, philosophy, law, and government of nations around the world lasts to this day.
> 
> The powers of an emperor existed, in theory at least, by virtue of his tribunician powers and his proconsular powers In theory, the tribunician powers made the emperors person and office sacrosanct, and gave the emperor authority over Romes civil government, including the power to preside over and to control the Senate. The proconsular powers gave him authority over the Roman army.
> Roman Empire achieved great territorial gains in both the East and the West. It had one of the strongest armies recorded.
> The enduring Roman influence is reflected pervasively in contemporary language, literature, legal codes, government, architecture, engineering, medicine, sports, arts, etc. Much of it is so deeply inbedded that we barely notice our debt to ancient Rome. Consider language, for example. Fewer and fewer people today claim to know Latin  and yet, go back to the first sentence in this paragraph. If we removed all the words drawn directly from Latin, that sentence would read; The.
> 
> 
> 7. *Umayyad Caliphate (661750)*
> 
> A caliphate is the Islamic form of government representing the political unity and leadership of the Muslim world. The Caliphs position is based on the notion of a successor to Muhammads political authority. According to Sunnis, a Caliph can be any pious Muslim who is elected by the Muslims or their representatives; and according to Shia Islam, an Imam descended in a line from the Ahl al-Bayt.
> 
> The Umayyad Caliphate was the second of the four Islamic caliphates established after the death of Muhammad (PBUH). It was ruled by the Umayyad dynasty, whose name derives from Umayya ibn Abd Shams, the great-grandfather of the first Umayyad caliph. Although the Umayyad family originally came from the city of Mecca, Damascus was the capital of their Caliphate. Eventually, it would cover more than five million square miles, making it the largest empire the world had yet seen. The Umayyads established the largest Arab-Muslim state in history. From the time of prophet Muhammad until 1924, successive and contemporary caliphates were held by various dynasties, including the Rashidun Caliphate of the first four caliphs after Muhammad, the Umayyads based in Damascus and Córdoba, the Abbasids based in Baghdad & later in Cairo, the Fatimids based in Cairo, and finally the Turkish Ottoman Empire based in Istanbul.
> 
> Ummayads had the best administration system the world had yet seen. To assist the Caliph in administration there were six Boards at the Centre: Diwan al-Kharaj (the Board of Revenue), Diwan al-Rasail (the Board of Correspondence), Diwan al-Khatam (the Board of Signet), Diwan al-Barid (the Board of Posts), Diwan al-Qudat (Board of Justice) and Diwan al-Jund (the Military Board).
> Fifth largest contiguous empire to ever exist.
> Modern Arab nationalism regards the period of the Umayyads as part of the Arab Golden Age.
> 
> 
> 6. *Qing Dynasty (18901912)
> *
> The Qing Dynasty was the last ruling dynasty of China, ruling from 1644 to 1912 (with a brief, abortive restoration in 1917). It was preceded by the Ming Dynasty and followed by the Republic of China. The dynasty was founded by the Manchu clan Aisin Gioro in what is today northeast China, (also known as Manchuria). Starting in 1644 it expanded into China proper and its surrounding territories, establishing the Empire of the Great Qing. Complete pacification of China was accomplished around 1683.The Qing Dynasty was overthrown following the Xinhai Revolution, when the Empress Dowager Longyu abdicated on behalf of the last emperor, Puyi, on February 12, 1912.
> During its reign the Qing Dynasty became highly integrated with Chinese culture.
> The dynasty reached its height in the 18th century, during which both territory and population were increased.
> It covered an immense area of 14.7 million km2 (1790) making it the 5th largest according to land mass.
> It had the 4th largest %age of worlds GDP i.e 32.9% ($228.6 billion out of $694.4 billion in 1820)
> 
> 
> 5. *Russian Empire (17211917)
> *
> The Russian Empire was a state that existed from 1721 until the Russian Revolution of 1917. It was the successor to the Tsardom of Russia, and the predecessor of the Soviet Union. At one point in 1866, it stretched from eastern Europe, across Asia, and into North America. At the beginning of the 19th century, Russia was the largest country in the world, extending from the Arctic Ocean to the north to the Black Sea on the south, from the Baltic Sea on the west to the Pacific Ocean on the east.
> 
> It was the second largest contiguous empire the world has ever seen, surpassed only by the Mongol Empire, and the third largest empire the world has ever seen, surpassed only by the British Empire and the Mongol Empire .
> The household servants or dependents attached to the personal service were merely set free, while the landed peasants received their houses and orchards, and allotments of arable land.
> 
> 
> 4. *Mongol Empire (12061368)
> *
> The Mongol Empire was an empire from the 13th and 14th century spanning from Eastern Europe across Asia. It emerged from the unification of Mongol and Turkic tribes in modern day Mongolia, and grew through invasions, after Genghis Khan had been proclaimed ruler of all Mongols in 1206. At its greatest extent it stretched from the Danube to the Sea of Japan (or East Sea) and from the Arctic to Camboja, covering over 24,000,000 km2 , 22% of the Earths total land area, and held sway over a population of over 100 million people. It is often identified as the Mongol World Empire because it spanned much of Eurasia. However, the empire began to split following the succession war in 12601264. By 1294, he Mongol Empire had already fractured into four separate empires, each pursuing its own separate interests and objectives.
> 
> It is the largest contiguous empire in the history of the world, and the second largest empire in history, after the British Empire.
> Under the Mongols new technologies, various commodities and ideologies were disseminated and exchanged across Eurasia.
> 
> 
> 3. *Mughal Empire (15261858)
> *
> The Mughal Empire was an Islamic imperial power that ruled a large portion of Indian subcontinent which began in 1526, invaded and ruled most of South Asia by the late 17th and early 18th centuries, and ended in the mid-19th century.The Mughal Emperors were descendants of the Timurids of Turkistan, and at the height of their power around 1700, they controlled most of the Indian Subcontinentextending from Bengal in the east to Balochistan in the west, Kashmir in the north to the Kaveri basin in the south. Its population at that time has been estimated as between 110 and 130 million, over a territory of over 4 million sq. km (1.5 million sq. mi.). The classic period of the Empire started in 1556 with the accession of Jalaluddin Mohammad Akbar, better known as Akbar the Great. It ended with the death of Emperor Aurangzeb in 1707, although the Empire continued for another 150 years.
> 
> The Empire was marked by a highly centralized administration connecting the different regions.
> All the significant monuments of the Mughals, their most visible legacy, date to this period which was characterised by the expansion of Persian cultural influence in the Indian subcontinent, with brilliant literary, artistic and architectural results. A major Mughal contribution to the Indian Subcontinent was their unique architecture. Many monuments were built by the Muslim emperors, especially Shahjahan, during the Mughal era including the UNESCO World Heritage Site Taj Mahal, which is known to be one of the finer examples of Mughal architecture.
> The Indian economy remained as prosperous under the Mughals as it was, because of the creation of a road system and a uniform currency, together with the unification of the country. Manufactured goods and peasant-grown cash crops were sold throughout the world.
> n the Mughal Empire, the 16th and 17th centuries saw a synthesis of Muslim scientists who are the pioneers of modern science.
> It remained strong for longest duration above other empires and 4th largest population as compared to all other kingdoms  175.0 million in 1700.
> 
> 
> 2. *British Empire*
> 
> The British Empire comprised the dominions, colonies, protectorates, mandates, and other territories ruled or administered by the United Kingdom, that had originated with the overseas colonies and trading posts established by England in the late 16th and early 17th centuries. At its height it was the largest empire in history and, for over a century, was the foremost global power. By 1922, the British Empire held sway over a population of about 458 million people, one-quarter of the worlds population at the time, and covered more than 13,000,000 square miles (33,670,000 km2): approximately a quarter of the Earths total land area. As a result, its political, linguistic and cultural legacy is widespread. At the peak of its power, it was often said that the sun never sets on the British Empire because its span across the globe ensured that the sun was always shining on at least one of its numerous territories.
> 
> It was the largest empire by landmass covering 33.7 million km2 (1922)
> It was the largest empire by population.
> It had the second largest GDP size of $683.3 billion (in 1938) after the US in 1945
> It had the largest percent of world GDP 35.9% ($399 billion out of $1,111 billion in 1870)
> It had the largest military of all times.
> During the rule, people were quite unsatisfactory with the government and many disputes arose therefore the empire was soon brought done like house of cards as soon as it emerged, therefore although being largest, it is on second number.
> 
> 
> 1. *Ottoman Empire (12991923)*
> 
> The Ottoman Empire also known by its contemporaries as the Turkish Empire. was an Islamic empire that lasted from 1299 to November 1, July 24, 1923 It was succeeded by the Republic of Turkey, which was officially proclaimed on October 29, 1923. At the height of its power (16th17th centuries), the empire spanned three continents, controlling much of Western Asia, Eastern and Southeastern Europe, the Caucasus, and North Africa. The Ottoman Empire contained 29 provinces and numerous vassal states, some of which were later absorbed into the empire, while others gained various types of autonomy during the course of centuries.
> 
> It existed at the globe for the longest period of time for 7 centuries.
> The Ottoman legal system accepted the religious law over its subjects. The Ottoman Empire was always organized around a system of local jurisprudence.
> The Ottoman Empire was, in principle, tolerant towards Christians and Jews.
> Numerous traditions and cultural traits of this previous empire (in fields such as architecture, cuisine, music, leisure and government) were adopted by the Ottomans, who elaborated them into new forms and blended them with the characteristics of the ethnic and religious groups living within the Ottoman territories, which resulted in a new and distinctively Ottoman cultural identity.
> By developing commercial centres and routes, encouraging people to extend the area of cultivated land in the country and international trade through its dominions, the state performed basic economic functions in the Empire.
> The empire was at the centre of interactions between the Eastern and Western worlds for seven centuries.
> 
> 
> 
> Can not be said better.


your list of strongest empires is not right. Indus Vally civilization have more area than Akkadian Empire but we can non know those ruling system and in Indian subcontinental some empire more powerful than Mughal Empire like moryan guptas cholas etc. and in this list some other empire like Alexendar empire are not given.


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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

dont forget great Korean empire


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