# An Insight into Al-Khalid II MBT.



## Kompromat

*Al Khalid MBT-II*



KARACHI - Pakistan's Al Khalid Tank is widely being considered one of the most competent Main Battle Tanks (MBTs) in the global arms market. *The Al Khalid II is said to have a new armor that has been tested to defeat all known 120mm and 125mm rounds. *

This special armour is a major technological breakthrough for Pakistan. The tank has received a new transmission and revised electronic turret control.*This was stated by Syed Muhammad Ali, the first certified military concept tank designer of Pakistan, while talking to The Nation. *He said that the *Al Khalid II has a new Integrated Battle Management System (IBMS) and active threat-protection system, the latter being an upgrade from the passive system in the earlier model. The tank is now perhaps one of the most heavily weaponized per tonnage of any tank, being able to carry 49 125mm rounds, 1,500 12.7mm and 7,100 7.62mm rounds.*

He said that Al-Khalid is modern battle tank developed by Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT).Al Khalid consists of all the modern technologies required by latest generation tanks. Alkhalid is fitted with Ukranian engine that generated 1200 horse power. It has six forward automatic transmission. Its top speed is 72km/h. It weighs 47 tonnes.Al-Khalid is operated by a three man crew; a driver, a gunner, and a commander.Al-khalid consist of a self loading 125m smooth bore gun. It can also fire HEAT and APFSDS (Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot) rounds. It automatically load, fire and eject the empty case.

Because of self loading gun, the crew number is reduced. The gun is equipped with a stabilizing system which provides accurate shot of the target even if the tank is moving. It also comes with an imaging system which enables the crew members to track down various targets and engage them. It is also equipped with a 7.62mm co-axial machine gun and a 12.5mm anti-aircraft gun mounted above it.In terms of sheer numbers, Forecast International expects Pakistan&#8217;s Al Khalid, the Type 98 of the People&#8217;s Republic of China, and the Russian Federation&#8217;s T-90 (including India&#8217;s licensed T-90S production program) to continue to dominate the market.

In the international market for main battle tanks, the days of U.S. and European domination over new production are long gone. Al Khalid is also equipped with night vision devices that enables it for combat at night time. It also has protection for NBC (Nuclear, Biological & chemical) warfare and thus the crew member would be safe incase of NBC fallout.Al-Khalid can also be fitted with Explosives Reactive Armor (ERA). Al-Khalid is currently in service with the Pakistan Army.

Regards:

High demand of 'Al-Khalid' tank in modern warfare

Reactions: Like Like:
40


----------



## Paksindhi

Another reason for me to be proud of my Armed Forces, well done, keep it up and make motherland more safe.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## IndianArmy

I like this tank, Its Looking good.... May I have its Features?


----------



## gowthamraj

IndianArmy said:


> I like this tank, Its Looking good.... May I have its Features?



Go here

Al-Khalid (tank)


----------



## TaimiKhan

IndianArmy said:


> I like this tank, Its Looking good.... May I have its Features?



A much detailed one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khalid_(tank)


----------



## IndianArmy

Its a Well built MBT, But My personal View , I might be wrong, A tank of such Caliber must have a 1400 Hp engine To make the most Out of It... A joint venture with China??


----------



## TaimiKhan

IndianArmy said:


> Its a Well built MBT, But My personal View , I might be wrong, A tank of such Caliber must have a 1400 Hp engine To make the most Out of It... A joint venture with China??



Current version has 1200hp engine, but may be the future variant will get a more powerful 1500hp or so engine, but that version is years away for now. 

And yeah its a joint venture with China, with many modifications and changes as per Pakistan's requirements done by Pakistan itself.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## IndianArmy

TaimiKhan said:


> Current version has 1200hp engine, but may be the future variant will get a more powerful 1500hp or so engine, but that version is years away for now.
> 
> And yeah its a joint venture with China, with many modifications and changes as per Pakistan's requirements done by Pakistan itself.



I see, Why I told that because, In desert warfare, You never Know the terrain, It keeps changing according the sand dunes there, So when You have a very powerful Engine, Your MBT moves Smoothly without any Problem, Well It depends on the engine basically, Its not needed that a 1400 Hp engine to work better than a 1200 Hp engine, it all depends how good the engine is..... *But You guys de promoted me from major to 2nd Lieutenant *


----------



## TaimiKhan

IndianArmy said:


> I see, Why I told that because, In desert warfare, You never Know the terrain, It keeps changing according the sand dunes there, So when You have a very powerful Engine, Your MBT moves Smoothly without any Problem, Well It depends on the engine basically, Its not needed that a 1400 Hp engine to work better than a 1200 Hp engine, it all depends how good the engine is..... *But You guys de promoted me from major to 2nd Lieutenant *



Yeah, engine does plays an important role in mobility of a tank especially in desert. 

But AK is not a heavy tank and at 47-48 tonnes, this engine is good enough, but if it goes above 50 tonnes in future, then it would be needing a more powerful engine. 

No one demoted you Sir, a Major rank is at 300 posts, and at 25 posts you will become Lt and Captain at 100 posts. 

Ranks:

2nd Lieutenent - 0 posts

Lieutenant - 25 posts

Captain - 100 posts

Major - 300 posts

Lt. Colonel - 700 posts

Colonel - 1000 posts

Brigadier - 1500 posts

Major General - 2500 posts

Lt. General - 3300 Posts

General - 5000 posts


Read the forum rules, you get to know how the system works.


----------



## JonAsad

IndianArmy said:


> I see, Why I told that because, In desert warfare, You never Know the terrain, It keeps changing according the sand dunes there, So when You have a very powerful Engine, Your MBT moves Smoothly without any Problem, Well It depends on the engine basically, Its not needed that a 1400 Hp engine to work better than a 1200 Hp engine, it all depends how good the engine is..... *But You guys de promoted me from major to 2nd Lieutenant *



Lol i am still a Captain how were you promoted to Major in the first place 

Nice tank and it meets the requirement of Pakistan army 
is it our front line tank?


----------



## TaimiKhan

jonasad said:


> Lol i am still a Captain how were you promoted to Major in the first place
> 
> Nice tank and it meets the requirement of Pakistan army
> is it our front line tank?



Yeah, these with T-80Uds are the frontline tanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## IndianArmy

TaimiKhan said:


> Yeah, engine does plays an important role in mobility of a tank especially in desert.
> 
> But AK is not a heavy tank and at 47-48 tonnes, this engine is good enough, but if it goes above 50 tonnes in future, then it would be needing a more powerful engine.
> 
> No one demoted you Sir, a Major rank is at 300 posts, and at 25 posts you will become Lt and Captain at 100 posts.
> 
> Ranks:
> 
> 2nd Lieutenent - 0 posts
> 
> Lieutenant - 25 posts
> 
> Captain - 100 posts
> 
> Major - 300 posts
> 
> Lt. Colonel - 700 posts
> 
> Colonel - 1000 posts
> 
> Brigadier - 1500 posts
> 
> Major General - 2500 posts
> 
> Lt. General - 3300 Posts
> 
> General - 5000 posts
> 
> 
> Read the forum rules, you get to know how the system works.



I see, yes its an under 50 ton tank and thats good, because Army wants light tanks for greater accessibility ... And I was just kidding, I retired from the Army as a Major, so was Just Joking , as My rank here is 2nd Lieutenant .


----------



## TaimiKhan

IndianArmy said:


> I see, yes its an under 50 ton tank and thats good, because Army wants light tanks for greater accessibility ... And I was just kidding, I retired from the Army as a Major, so was Just Joking , as My rank here is 2nd Lieutenant .



Don't worry, very soon you would be above Major rank if you continued with the same pace of posts. 

On this forum, time passes very quickly.


----------



## IndianArmy

TaimiKhan said:


> Don't worry, very soon you would be above Major rank if you continued with the same pace of posts.
> 
> On this forum, time passes very quickly.



So true..... Well..... Well Any other varients of this Tank?


----------



## Kompromat

IndianArmy said:


> So true..... Well..... Well Any other varients of this Tank?



The Innitial model was MBT-2000 , it was upgraded to Al-Khalid Configureation , The most recent Variant is Al Khalid-I which was revealed few months ago.

The upcoming variant is AK-II MBT which would be a whole new tank with much more powerfull Engine maybe 1500HP and will incorporate a western Design , it would have more speed , Jammers , and a reactive armour etc

Turkey is involved in AK-II program so maybe we will be getting some features from Altay MBT and Leopard.

AK-II would be revealed in 2012 and from then it would become the backbone of Pakistan Army's Armoured branch.

Regards:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## IndianArmy

I see, Thats a great.... So there are Upgrades going on for this tank... Any active protection system for Future models???


----------



## Kompromat

IndianArmy said:


> I see, Thats a great.... So there are Upgrades going on for this tank... Any active protection system for Future models???



Threre would be some sort of active protection system but i am not aware of any details.

thanks

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## IndianArmy

Black Blood said:


> Threre would be some sort of active protection system but i am not aware of any details.
> 
> thanks



Thats Great news.... Great to hear that, I thought Only Arjun MK2 would be getting it, Al khalid would too


----------



## mjnaushad

> The Al Khalid II is said to have a new armor that has been tested to defeat all known 120mm and 125mm rounds.



That could worry some people...............

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mjnaushad

Black Blood said:


> The Innitial model was MBT-2000 , it was upgraded to Al-Khalid Configureation , The most recent Variant is Al Khalid-I which was revealed few months ago.
> 
> The upcoming variant is AK-II MBT which would be a whole new tank with much more powerfull Engine maybe 1500HP and will incorporate a western Design , it would have more speed , Jammers , and a reactive armour etc
> 
> Turkey is involved in AK-II program so maybe we will be getting some features from Altay MBT and Leopard.
> 
> AK-II would be revealed in 2012 and from then it would become the backbone of Pakistan Army's Armoured branch.
> 
> Regards:


you forgot to mention VT-1A for Peruvian army.....


----------



## IndianArmy

mjnaushad said:


> That could worry some people...............



But Cannot escape from Anti tank rockets.... And Yes, there are armours which Are tough Enough to handle a few rounds of those, but not fully


----------



## ice_man

@Taimi

a quick question how does AK compare against The T-90S Bhishma!? in the punjab plateau? in terms of engine power? for example the AK is ideally suited for the deserts of sindh & rajhistan however,when we talk about punjab area which is cooler how negatively does it affect the engine power (i really don't want this thread to turn into a T-90 vs AK thread)


----------



## chachachoudhary

Any performance comparison chart comparing al khalid with major MBTs across the world?


----------



## Kompromat

mjnaushad said:


> you forgot to mention VT-1A for Peruvian army.....



Deal has been cancelled.


----------



## Kompromat

chachachoudhary said:


> Any performance comparison chart comparing al khalid with major MBTs across the world?



Some people consider it (AK-1)in world Top 10 and some put it on number 11.

There is really no reliable comperison available but AK is world class no doubt & overall i believe it deserves its place in Top-10.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/23284-12-best-tanks-world.html


----------



## Kompromat

*Al-Khalid, Type 98 And T-90 Continue To Dominate World Tank Market
*



by Staff Writers
Newtown CT (SPX) Mar 06, 2009
In its annual analysis "The Market for Tanks," the Forecast International Weapons Group projects that the international market will produce over 6,500 main battle tanks, worth in excess of $26.76 billion, through 2018. However, while increased modernization and retrofit remains transparent to FI's analysis of new-production tanks, this factor remains a significant component of the international market.
Dean Lockwood, weapons systems analyst at Forecast International, notes that "in 2008, U.S. Department of Defense contract awards for the maintenance, RESET, and upgrade of the existing M1 Abrams inventories carried a total value in excess of $1.46 billion.

That was equivalent to more than 46 percent of the total value of all new-production main battle tanks entering the international market in 2008 (nearly $3.17 billion).

Last year, the Chinese Type 98 program maintained its position as the single largest new-production program. Yet, with a total value of $395.79 million (for 116 new-production tanks), the Type 98 program was worth only about 27.11 percent what the U.S. DoD spent on the M1 Abrams in 2008."

The expense associated with the modernization and retrofit of high-end main battle tanks pales in comparison with the prospect of new tank procurement.

Thus, FI expects new production of high-end tanks to remain relatively low, accounting for 14.9 percent of all production and 24.22 percent of the value of the market during the forecast period.

In terms of sheer numbers, Forecast International expects Pakistan's Al Khalid, the Type 98 of the People's Republic of China, and the Russian Federation's T-90 (including India's licensed T-90S production program) to continue to dominate the market, representing 60.57 percent of all new tanks rolling out worldwide, and accounting for 52.28 percent of the value of the market, through 2018.

In the international market for main battle tanks, the days of U.S. and European domination over new production are long gone. Nevertheless, the established U.S. and European players continue to make their presence felt.

The 120mm Rh 120 smoothbore ordnance, the state-of-the-art Leopard 2, and the combat-proven M1 Abrams continue to set the standard for main battle tank design worldwide.

Second only to the infantryman in terms of combat effectiveness, the "mailed fist" of heavy armor remains the arm of decision on the modern battlefield.

Further, as Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003-present) evolved from a war of movement into a security operation, the main battle tank has proven surprisingly adaptable. According to Lockwood, "In the congested streets of Iraqi cities, the Abrams serves as a significant force multiplier, fully up to meeting the challenges of an asymmetric warfare environment."


Al-Khalid, Type 98 And T-90 Continue To Dominate World Tank Market

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## araz

IndianArmy said:


> I see, yes its an under 50 ton tank and thats good, because Army wants light tanks for greater accessibility ... And I was just kidding, I retired from the Army as a Major, so was Just Joking , as My rank here is 2nd Lieutenant .



Nice to see an army man.Welcome to the forum. I hope we can have candid debates without the jingoism that plagues such fora. By the way there is a military professionals forum for the professionals.You might want to have a look at that and we look forward to having your opinions.
Araz


----------



## Kompromat

IndianArmy said:


> I see, yes its an under 50 ton tank and thats good, because Army wants light tanks for greater accessibility ... And I was just kidding, I retired from the Army as a Major, so was Just Joking , as My rank here is 2nd Lieutenant .



We surely will regard your expertise.


----------



## IndianArmy

I still cant figure out why we had to fight wars when we had and have Friendly people like you in Pakistan and India..... I joined this forum yesterday and It was good for me to see that the present Youths of both India and Pakistan have started talking to each other.... Thanks to the guy who created this beautiful forum

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kompromat

*Some Nice Shots of A-K*







Regards:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TaimiKhan

ice_man said:


> @Taimi
> 
> a quick question how does AK compare against The T-90S Bhishma!? in the punjab plateau? in terms of engine power? for example the AK is ideally suited for the deserts of sindh & rajhistan however,when we talk about punjab area which is cooler how negatively does it affect the engine power (i really don't want this thread to turn into a T-90 vs AK thread)



Problem is we have a vast desert area, which comprises of Punjab and Sindh both, that is why nearly all the elite T-80UD and AK units have been stationed in the desert area which supposed to be the epicenter of the Indian Cold Start doctrine, as desert gives a lot of room to manure these highly mobile armor formations. 

And in the Punjab areas where there is greenery and hard surfaces, PA is using Al Zarrars and the older ones, as they are more suited to these environments. 

That is why whenever you see exercise photos of exercises being doing in Kharian, Jehlum or Tilla firing ranges, you will see AZs and older models, while whenever something is being done in the desert areas, Multan, Muzzafargarh and Sindh areas, you are gonna be seeing T-80UDs and AKs. 

May be in future, with rate of production going up, we may see only AZs and AKs in the Punjab's greenery areas, like Lahore front, Sialkot front and in desert, we will be seeing T-80UDs and AKs only.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Kompromat

IndianArmy said:


> I still cant figure out why we had to fight wars when we had and have Friendly people like you in Pakistan and India..... I joined this forum yesterday and It was good for me to see that the present Youths of both India and Pakistan have started talking to each other.... Thanks to the guy who created this beautiful forum



Resolving our core issues will bring things back to the track but there are more major powers involved in this era of Hate between India and Pakistan.

By name , USA , UK , Russia , France . All they want is to sale their weapons which bring Billions to their Economy and to sale weapons it is important to keep us busy Fighting each other.

They support do terrorism in Pakistan and do mumbai attacks in india , they hire people from opposite countries and we are idiot enough to fell into their trap every single time and blame each other without even thinking about this aspect.


I hope for good , we have no hate for people of India but our core issues must be solved which are the main reasons for the escalation between us.

I can assure you , Pakistan's economy is a sleeping jiant and it can wake up any moment , if we solve all of our issues than think about this.

China+India+Pakistan = 3 Nuclear armed Nations , All sit in world top 5 millitaries ,all have space capabilities , all have Brilliant talent , all have Huge resources , all have skilled and highly educated proffessionals.

Sinopakinda can turn into a powerhouse which will "eat" western domination.

I wish it happens.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## IndianArmy

Black Blood said:


> Resolving our core issues will bring things back to the track but there are more major powers involved in this era of Hate between India and Pakistan.
> 
> By name , USA , UK , Russia , France . All they want is to sale their weapons which bring Billions to their Economy and to sale weapons it is important to keep us busy Fighting each other.
> 
> They support do terrorism in Pakistan and do mumbai attacks in india , they hire people from opposite countries and we are idiot enough to fell into their trap every single time and blame each other without even thinking about this aspect.
> 
> 
> I hope for good , we have no hate for people of India but our core issues must be solved which are the main reasons for the escalation between us.
> 
> I can assure you , Pakistan's economy is a sleeping jiant and it can wake up any moment , if we solve all of our issues than think about this.
> 
> China+India+Pakistan = 3 Nuclear armed Nations , All sit in world top 5 millitaries ,all have space capabilities , all have Brilliant talent , all have Huge resources , all have skilled and highly educated proffessionals.
> 
> Sinopakinda can turn into a powerhouse which will "eat" western domination.
> 
> I wish it happens.



Well I guess You are right... The most difficult thing is self reliance...


----------



## Kompromat

@ Taimikhan.

Sir i think Saudis were negotiating for 300 AK's and they did field trails too back in 2006.

Do you have any info on that ?


----------



## TaimiKhan

Black Blood said:


> @ Taimikhan.
> 
> Sir i think Saudis were negotiating for 300 AK's and they did field trails too back in 2006.
> 
> Do you have any info on that ?



Due to some issues the deal did not went through, i believe Saudi Arabia is going for T-90s or something else.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

Indian Army

Sir your point is valid as desert environment is perhaps the most difficult one for any armored vehicle to handle. This is where the Ukrainian engine comes in as Ukrainians have been making perhaps the world's best MBT diesel/multiple fule engines for at least 30 years now. The opposed configuration of 6TD2 engine gives it a real performance boost in desert environment that no other engine in this region gives. I have seen Al Khalid literally maneuvering like a sports car in desert trials !

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## IndianArmy

nabil_05 said:


> Indian Army
> 
> Sir your point is valid as desert environment is perhaps the most difficult one for any armored vehicle to handle. This is where the Ukrainian engine comes in as Ukrainians have been making perhaps the world's best MBT diesel/multiple fule engines for at least 30 years now. The opposed configuration of 6TD2 engine gives it a real performance boost in desert environment that no other engine in this region gives. I have seen Al Khalid literally maneuvering like a sports car in desert trials !



I can figure out with the designing of al-khalid, It should be moving fast, but my point was this Deserves a 1400hp engine than a 1200 hp , because It light and the design can handle the thrust but, it will not stick to the ground I guess thats why Pakistan preferred 1200hp over 1400... That was a wise choice indeed, it will give a good accuracy of fire when moving....


----------



## Kompromat

IndianArmy said:


> I can figure out with the designing of al-khalid, It should be moving fast, but my point was this Deserves a 1400hp engine than a 1200 hp , because It light and the design can handle the thrust but, it will not stick to the ground I guess thats why Pakistan preferred 1200hp over 1400... That was a wise choice indeed, it will give a good accuracy of fire when moving....



Here we go Ak-II would be ready by 2012 for action. !



> Al-Khalid II  In early stages of development and believed to incorporate re-designed turret, upgraded modular armour package and sensors, improved ammunition and *new powerpack developing 1,500 hp*



Problem solved


----------



## IndianArmy

1500hp, That's gonna give it more thrust and enough pressure to survive during battle,How about its anti tank rocket systems?


----------



## Kompromat

IndianArmy said:


> 1500hp, That's gonna give it more thrust and enough pressure to survive during battle,How about its anti tank rocket systems?



I am aware that some sort of ATGM is going to be Installed on AK-II but i cant give any details.

It could be either a Ukranian ATGM or Turkish UTMAS which is just my speculation.

We may Buy (co produce) Turkish Man portable OMTAS ATGM (like javelin) which would be light weight , easy to deploy and would fire an I-R guided Missile promising fire and forget capability.
Those ATGM's would be a part of infentary because it capabilities are not limited to Anti armour but also it can be fired against Bunkers with multi modes ie Air Burst , penetration etc.



I see a high possibility of this ATGM being co Produced with turkey because this Missile system is capable and it has many variants as it can be fired from a Heli ie Cobra or T-129 ATAK which PA is already eveluating and also man portable launchers as well as can be launched from an armoured vehicle.

regards:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## IndianArmy

Hmnn that gives a complete justice to this Machine


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

finally a thread where ppl r not fighting and to keep it this way plz dont start compairing indian and pak tanks 
i was playing this game END WAR and in it is a t 100 concept tank and nice thing abt it is on its turret are two orkleon type 25 mm anti air guns 
me think if incorporated to AK2 it ll kik a**

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kompromat

IndianArmy said:


> Hmnn that gives a complete justice to this Machine



Modern warfare as you know is not restricted to those crappy ATGM's anymore and PA's specific case i believe most of the Anti armour activites will remain with our Cobras and super cobras with hell fire ATGM and if we bought T-129 ATAK with UTMAS long range Infrared Guided ATGM moreover PA's APC's are being Armed with Indigenous Baktar Shikan ATGM which was demonstrated in Azam e nau 3 excercise.



> UMTAS (Uzun Menzilli Tanksavar Sistemi) is a long range air-to-surface anti-tank missile developed by Turkish weapons manufacturer Roketsan[1]. UMTAS program was initiated in 2005 by Turkey's Undersecretariat of the Defence Industry, specifically to provide TAI T-129 ATAK combat helicopters with an indigenously produced guided missile. *UMTAS missile features fire and forget infrared guidance and a tandem anti-armor warhead. It is capable of engaging targets at 8 kilometers. Roketsan is also planning to produce versions of the missile that can be land vehicle-launched* and intends to offer the UMTAS for export.
> 
> It is envisaged that the *UMTAS missile will exceed the performance of both the US made Hellfire missile and also the Israeli Spike-ER missiles*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

http://ui26.gamespot.com/1625/t95tank_2.jpg
http://ui03.gamespot.com/2882/spetsnaztank_2.jpg
t 100 anti every thing tank just a concept for AK2


----------



## Dazzler

Ukrainian ATGM KOMBAT is a most likely option on AKs as it was promoted aggressively to Army and with a few modifications done to the original design, it will most likely be on AK1 and even AK2. Its performance is better than AT-11 Sniper in terms of range, accuracy and can be fitted to T-80 ud, Al Zarrar and AKs. A 120 mm barrel version is operational with Ukrainian MBTs such as Oplot, T-84 and BM Bulat.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

Interesting read on KOMBAT ATGM

EVXpress - SNIPER COMBAT. UKRAINIAN GUIDED TANK-DESTROYING MISSILE THAT HAS NO RIVALS-Defense Express. English Version,2004,No. 3-4


----------



## Tomahawk

*Al-Khalid II pics:*


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

Tomahawk said:


> *Al-Khalid II pics:*



nop thats AK or at most AK1. AK2 prototype is not yet road tested

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## qaisar52

What is the maximum range for Al Khalid tanks in case of firring shell?


----------



## Tomahawk

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> nop thats AK or at most AK1. AK2 prototype is not yet road tested



Yup, Al-Khalid I.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tomahawk

qaisar52 said:


> What is the maximum range for Al Khalid tanks in case of firring shell?



Maximum range is 7km.


----------



## aliyusuf

The 3rd sample pic on page 2 (towards the end of that page) of this thread, shows the right front corner of the tank plating coming off ... is that good??!!


----------



## illuminatidinesh

> The 3rd sample pic on page 2 (towards the end of that page) of this thread, shows the right front corner of the tank plating coming off ... is that good??!!


I dont think it matters..... It is just cover for the rails. May be just a careless bolt coming off.


----------



## illuminatidinesh

Also I heard that AK I was being modified to fire missiles !!!!!!!! Is that true? Or is it being done on AK II?


----------



## TaimiKhan

illuminatidinesh said:


> Also I heard that AK I was being modified to fire missiles !!!!!!!! Is that true? Or is it being done on AK II?



The current AKs can also fire ATGM missiles if required.
And most probably a Ukrainian version of ATGM is in service with these tanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## hataf

why are we not using Chinese engine that has 1500 horse power for alkhalid


----------



## Kompromat

^ The engine is still unknown , the only thing i would be looking for is the design and performance.


----------



## illuminatidinesh

> The current AKs can also fire ATGM missiles if required.
> And most probably a Ukrainian version of ATGM is in service with these tanks.


No sir i think u mis understood..... Ok U mean to say It can fire these missile through barrel?


----------



## TaimiKhan

illuminatidinesh said:


> No sir i think u mis understood..... Ok U mean to say It can fire these missile through barrel?



Yes, from the barrel it can fire missiles.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## illuminatidinesh

> Yes, from the barrel it can fire missiles.


Oh good and thanks.....


----------



## Kompromat

Cant wait for this beast to roll out.


----------



## KNIGHT-RIDER

hope aKii employ main gun of 120mm then only it stand a chance among her enemy ARJUN which field 120mm rifiled gun.
125mm gun's are too weak for heavy weight tanks like Arjun,leopad,M1A1....


----------



## TaimiKhan

KNIGHT-RIDER said:


> hope aKii employ main gun of 120mm then only it stand a chance among her enemy ARJUN which field 120mm rifiled gun.
> 125mm gun's are too weak for heavy weight tanks like Arjun,leopad,M1A1....



125mm gun means a larger caliber shell compared to a 120mm barrel can accommodate. 

The power of the gun is its firing mechanism, how much higher velocity it has and off course the ammo matters too. 

125mm gun can take care of its target, provided it has the punch.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Rain

I want it rock n roll in Thar next year.


----------



## araz

Rain said:


> I want it rock n roll in Thar next year.



Is this a tank or some HIJRA performing a mujra in Thar desert. Bhai, we need to be realistic and let the item mature. Only then will we know its capabilities.
Araz

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## KNIGHT-RIDER

TaimiKhan said:


> 125mm gun means a larger caliber shell compared to a 120mm barrel can accommodate.
> 
> The power of the gun is its firing mechanism, how much higher velocity it has and off course the ammo matters too.
> 
> 125mm gun can take care of its target, provided it has the punch.



sir if thats the case why all western tank like leopad,m1a1 use 120mm instead of 125mm main gun.even in desert storm M1A1 defeated direct shot of some iraqi T72(125mm) was that case of low standard ammo


----------



## TaimiKhan

KNIGHT-RIDER said:


> sir if thats the case why all western tank like leopad,m1a1 use 120mm instead of 125mm main gun.even in desert storm M1A1 defeated direct shot of some iraqi T72(125mm) was that case of low standard ammo



The change in caliber is due to the rivalry among the western block and the ex-USSR block. 

NATO caliber is always different then they Ex-Russia or Warsaw pact countries. 

West has 155mm caliber for heavy artillery or 203mm, Russia i believe used and uses 152mm caliber and another heavy one, Nato rifle rounds caliber is 5.45*45mm & 7.62*51mm, while USSR had 7.62*39mm round, USSR had 122mm howitzers, NATO had i believe the 105mm howitzers, NATO pistol caliber is 9*19mm, while Russia had 7.62*25mm for the TT pistols, everything was different, so that in case of war, if anyone captures enemy ammunition, they can't use it. 

So due to this reason, Western block had 120mm caliber tank guns, while Russians went for the 125mm caliber.

That is the reason for the basic difference.

And yeah, why the 125mm guns could not penetrate western tanks while the 120mm could, western tech is superior, thus their barrels generates more velocity or power compared to russian ones, thus they were capable to defeat the T-72s, while T-72s couldn't.

Even leopard had initially a 105mm gun, plus other westerns tanks had the same caliber, which was changed to 120mm ones.


*

" By the end of the war the variety in tank designs was narrowed and the concept of the main battle tank emerged. After World War II, the race to increase caliber slowed. Slight increases were made between tank generations. In the West, guns of around 90 mm gave way to the ubiquitous 105 mm L7. This lasted a long while with a shift to 120 mm in the 1970s and 80s (the UK changed in the late 60s with their Chieftain tank). In the East, the 85 mm quickly yielded to the 100 mm and 115 mm gun, with the 125 mm caliber now standard. Most of the improvements were instead made in ammunition and fire control systems. "*

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## Kompromat

^ Welcome to the forum , please introduce yourself in the Members Introduction forum.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mughaljee

What is mean of Smooth Bore Barrel.
what kind of barrel in the earlier tanks.
what kind of difference or we can say technical edge in smooth bore barrel rather the ordinary one ?


----------



## KNIGHT-RIDER

mughaljee said:


> What is mean of Smooth Bore Barrel.
> what kind of barrel in the earlier tanks.
> what kind of difference or we can say technical edge in smooth bore barrel rather the ordinary one ?



smooth bore is similar like a shot gun barrel,there no rotation of round in side the barrel thats why it called smooth bore .now a days smooth bore barrel comes with chrome plating to increase the self life of barrel .

some other version of tanks like British Chalenger & Indian Arjun tanks employ rifled barrel which is based on the principle of barrel of a rifle ,which rotates the shell in side the barrel thus increase the accuracy & range of projectile .

rifled barrel has main dis advantage is its short life compared to smooth barrel as there is more wear & tear in rifled barrel.


----------



## TaimiKhan

mughaljee said:


> What is mean of Smooth Bore Barrel.
> what kind of barrel in the earlier tanks.
> what kind of difference or we can say technical edge in smooth bore barrel rather the ordinary one ?



In the below picture, you can see two barrels, one has been shown having grooves, this is rifled barrel, meaning there are grooves in it which give stabilization to the projectile at the time of firing by giving it a spin. If you see pistols or rifle pistols, all have lines going in them in circular motion. 

While the other barrel is smooth, there are no grooves in them to give a spin to the projectile. Rather the stabilization is given to the projectiles by having stabilizing fins in the projectile which keep it at a steady direction towards the target. 








Grooves inside the barrel





APFSDS:








POF made shells, both are fin stabilized projectiles.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## KNIGHT-RIDER

TaimiKhan said:


> In the below picture, you can see two barrels, one has been shown having grooves, this is rifled barrel, meaning there are grooves in it which give stabilization to the projectile at the time of firing by giving it a spin. If you see pistols or rifle pistols, all have lines going in them in circular motion.
> 
> While the other barrel is smooth, there are no grooves in them to give a spin to the projectile. Rather the stabilization is given to the projectiles by having stabilizing fins in the projectile which keep it at a steady direction towards the target.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grooves inside the barrel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> APFSDS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POF made shells, both are fin stabilized projectiles.



sir then it means shell used in smooth bore cant be used in rifled bore & vice versa?
then it 'll be a logistical night mare for IA as they field T90 as well as Arjun tanks


----------



## maverick1977

@Gen-indian... i am Rolling on the floor at your onslaught... hahahahaha.... seems like you r mad because u have to come to pakistan on visit and lost your passport and now u r stick here... 

Calm down dude, dont waste your emotions on minor things..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MZUBAIR

Very informative thread...........
Thanxs TaimiKhan & Black Blood

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Puremairmon

DELETED As i was forced into trolling by a gentleman..Sorry guys..rush of blood..had to cool off..didn't notice "black blood was near..i respect tah gentle man


----------



## Kompromat

*I have reported all of the above off topic posts , Stop it now or face the Moderation team.*


----------



## mjnaushad

Black Blood said:


> *I have reported all of the above off topic posts , Stop it now or face the Moderation team.*


I deleted my post....but that guy truely showed his Indian pan.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tomahawk

araz said:


> Is this a tank or some HIJRA performing a mujra in Thar desert. Bhai, we need to be realistic and let the item mature. Only then will we know its capabilities.
> Araz



Very well said .


----------



## Tomahawk

Black Blood said:


> *I have reported all of the above off topic posts , Stop it now or face the Moderation team.*



Me too reported all these troll posts, i hope mods will take the action soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hobo

does the Al-Khalid fire the SABO armor piercing round? 
and will the al-khalid 2 have the same look as the russian T types. because i heard it was more like the leopard in terms of looks


----------



## Kompromat

Hobo said:


> does the Al-Khalid fire the SABO armor piercing round?
> and will the al-khalid 2 have the same look as the russian T types. because i heard it was more like the leopard in terms of looks



The design would be influenced by Leopard and Altay as Turkey is Involved in the development of AK-II


----------



## Irfan Baloch

TaimiKhan said:


> ...............
> And yeah, why the 125mm guns could not penetrate western tanks while the 120mm could, western tech is superior, thus their barrels generates more velocity or power compared to russian ones, thus they were capable to defeat the T-72s, while T-72s couldn't.



I would like to point out the most obvious reason being the far far superior Armor of Abram M1 tanks. there is simply no tank able to take it out from stand off range where as T72s were comparitvely relics 
so it was supperior gun, ammonition and armor of Abrams that defeated T-72s

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## wangrong



Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## nightrider_saulat

wangrong said:


>



it should has 7x7 wheel chasis
just like abrams,challenger2,leopard2 and lecrec


----------



## KS

please any one clarify my query:

How many AK (of all variants) have been inducted into the army and how much more are on firm order (dont include planned ones)with HIT..?

thx


----------



## TaimiKhan

Karthic Sri said:


> please any one clarify my query:
> 
> How many AK (of all variants) have been inducted into the army and how much more are on firm order (dont include planned ones)with HIT..?
> 
> thx



Around 250-300 delivered. 

No new orders for now, may be by this year or next year new order is placed.


----------



## ramu

TaimiKhan said:


> Around 250-300 delivered.
> 
> No new orders for now, may be by this year or next year new order is placed.



What is the approximate cost per unit ? Is the power plant indigenous?


----------



## TaimiKhan

ramu said:


> What is the approximate cost per unit ? Is the power plant indigenous?



Cost no idea so far, but must be less to what it costs when bought from abroad. It must be somewhere in between 1 to 1.5 or 2M$ per piece. 

No, unfortunately the power plant is Ukrainian. One of the biggest hurdles in its export potential.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KS

TaimiKhan said:


> Around 250-300 delivered.
> 
> No new orders for now, may be by this year or next year new order is placed.



if its so sucessful as it is made out to be..why only 300 have been inducted.
Surely Pakistan hass a greater need for tanks than just 300


----------



## TaimiKhan

Karthic Sri said:


> if its so sucessful as it is made out to be..why only 300 have been inducted.
> Surely Pakistan hass a greater need for tanks than just 300



First issue is money, as with AK, we have been inducting and upgrading the AZs, as well as inducting APCs for the mechanized formations. 

So when they all are combined together, the sum of money becomes large, and we have other projects too, which require money. 

The figure has stopped at around 250-300, as a newer version was in testing, which has come out, the AK1, with very specific improvements. 

So now this version is gonna be tested, perfected and order then placed to increase the overall numbers. Once this order comes in, further development on the AK2 will start, which will be also something new, but it has still many years to come out. 

At the end of the day, PA would be having a total AK tank force, as all old variants will be replaced. 

End figure would be 2000+ AKs of different variants and money permitting, older variants will also get updated. 

Money is the real game player.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

Karthic Sri said:


> if its so sucessful as it is made out to be..why only 300 have been inducted.
> Surely Pakistan hass a greater need for tanks than just 300



buddy remember 300 of AK new one AK1 is near induction or already running in service and once optimum no of AK 1 r inducted AK 2 ll come out so u cant say y only 300 ....this is a huge project constantly evolving and end no ll near 2000 aprox also there is upgradation of all AK to AK1 standerd this stuff takes time and to keep in par with internatioal standerds constant evolution ll be required and in the end we ll say we have aprox 2000 AL-khalid tanks so chill out on numbers


----------



## archangel

I just want to know, what new things are being planned for Al-Khalid Mk2, if there would be any such venture in future...........................


----------



## Kompromat

archangel said:


> I just want to know, what new things are being planned for Al-Khalid Mk2, if there would be any such venture in future...........................



Visit some earlier posts , its all mentioned here though all details are unknown as the full capabilities will remain classified.


----------



## Super Falcon

welll so thanx to indians after praissing our tank anyway but still do you think that arjun is good against our al khalid. i hope to see al khalid 2 with a new design and more power fulll weapons and system and must have the electronic counter measure reactors to disable any anti tank missile coming its way well im a big fan of al khalid i hope to see this against abrams and leopard how it perfoms and against new chinese versions i think pakistan army should make exercises with these tanks of al khalid


----------



## Last Hope

We have heard about the Al Khalid II program, but there is still little information available. Information available on Al Khalid-I suggests that it will have an improved transmission system, as well as better electronics in terms of FCS, etc. As for Al Khalid-II, these are the possible systems we will see:

1. 1500hp diesel engine: either German MTU, Ukrainian 6TD-3 or South Korean DIC.

2. New armor technology in the form of ERAs as well as possible arrow-shaped design - seen in the ZTZ-99 and improved MBT-2000. 

3. 120mm gun/cannon with autoloader: either German L44 or L55, or possible local solution. Not a probability, but I believe there has been focus on enhanced crew safety - especially in terms of counter-insurgency operations.

4. New self-defence/protection systems, possibly even laser-based systems.

5. Focus on C4I and network-centric warfare; new-generation battle management system, etc.



> Should the PA go for 120mm or 125mm gun?


----------



## Last Hope

P.S.

Guys, I got this information from another Forum.
I was really keen on the PoVs of the members of this forum, espicially sir 'Black Blood' and 'Santro'


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Al Khalid 2 Tanks need a support unit , perhaps something that can provide Air-Surface defense capabilities and also defenses against some of the new advance weapons that break into 100 smaller units and seek and destroy tanks and APC and other armed units ...

I believe India got hold of some of these sophisticated bombs from US recently and that is a game changer in battle field 

But I think its a shame that we still have to import engines for these tanks from outside of Pakistan

I think our main goal should be to integrate some of the Turkish technology in terms of coordinating , modern fleet of tanks and units on ground and give better situational awareness 

So from my Stand point 

a) Need Support Unit to Al Khalid for Surface to Air
b) Need a defense strategy against smart weapons _*CBU-97 Sensor Fuzed Weapon*_
c) Need enhanced electronics integrated , which allow better visualization of battle
field for soldiers inside tanks

The Sensor fused weapons have made the advantage too great between a nation that has these and a nation that don't have them 

Example if two nations start with 1000 tanks , the nation with the sensor fused weapons could knock out 30-40 tanks in one shot , vs nation that do not have them so its a big numerical advantage just like if one fighter is fighting with a knief and other is holding a samurai sword

The new generation of bombs use heat signatures from Tanks and other emitions to lock on to the ground units so Al Khalid 2 must account for these items 

Perhaps what we need is a Stealth Tank or a Tank that can remain invisible form scanners of the sensors and cameras in these weapons fired from air.

How can that be done , well R&D I am sure that a tank can be made invisible from senors from above if a plane can be made invisible to radar

If these new modifications would be great in Al Khalid 3 , but these should be design considerations


The other scenario is that we ourselves also have access to purchasing these weapons to even the filed

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dalai Lama

Any idea whether it will look any different?


----------



## Kompromat

Created a thread while ago --

http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-forces/56759-insight-into-al-khalid-ii-mbt.html


----------



## Penguin

What armor (tank varieties) would Pakistan's forces likely face in combat in the next 20 years, in what numbers? Use that as a basis for what the tankforce should be able to deal with, either through tank capability, number or supporting units (e.g. attack helicopters, smart artillery munitions).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## farhan_9909

We need to start working on indegenous tank engine.

or may be a JV bt nt a direct import

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kompromat

Penguin said:


> What armor (tank varieties) would Pakistan's forces likely face in combat in the next 20 years, in what numbers? Use that as a basis for what the tankforce should be able to deal with, either through tank capability, number or supporting units (e.g. attack helicopters, smart artillery munitions).


 
high command decides these things and according to sources Pakistan's future requirement is around 2500 MBTs - the number can be increased if needed.


----------



## Mujeeb47

AK-II has some great features that will boast Pak Army :
1) It has 1500 hp ukrainian engine. It means that It will move smoothly even on sand
2) It has auto loader
3) It provides great safety to crew against nuclear , chemical and biological weapons
4) First Pak tank to be based on Western modal
5) It has also anti air-craft technology
And a lot more...
Another milestone for Pak Army

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mujeeb47

Ak-II will have 1500hp ukrainian engine.


----------



## TR.1

Great Tank mashallah

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Desert Fox

So, where's the Tank?

Okay i just checked the date of the original thread post and turns out this is a two year old thread.


----------



## Imran Khan

Desert Fox said:


> So, where's the Tank?
> 
> Okay i just checked the date of the original thread post and turns out this is a two year old thread.



tank is in cold store till economy come back on track

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## farhan_9909

people attending the ideas def expo next month can get info from the hit officialls


----------



## Slayer786

> THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
> 
> NUMBER5:AL KHALID II TANK
> 
> 
> The Al Khalid II is said to have a new armor that has been tested to defeat all known 120mm and 125mm rounds. This "special" armor is a major technological breakthrough for Pakistan. The tank has received a new transmission and revised electronic turret control...
> 
> 
> 
> The Al Khalid II has a new Integrated Battle Management System (IBMS) and active threat-protection system, the latter being an upgrade from the passive system in the earlier model. The tank is now perhaps the most heavily weaponized per tonnage of any tank, being able to carry 49 125mm rounds, 1,500 12.7mm and 7,100 7.62mm rounds.
> 
> 
> extra frontal armour (similar to China&#39;s Type 98 tank)
> - further plating in front of the driver&#39;s compartment
> - Uprated engine (1,500 hp) with longer lifespan to increase mobility
> - 2 x 7.62mm PK-type machine guns, 1 x 12.7mm gun
> - newly designed autoloader & higher rate of fire (with a nitrogin cooled barrel sytem)
> - New avionics included to allow engagement of low-flying helicopters at extended ranges (Merkava Mk.4 will have a similar feature)
> - Larger turrent with extra ERA added, faster moving turret
> - Ability to use mounted ATGW between re-loads (that isat least several ATGW mounted for launch)
> - Comprehensive NBC (Nuclear Biological Chemical) kit
> - More comprehensive &#39;swimming&#39; kit
> - Enhanced features for crew survivability in case of imobilisation
> - Night-time fighting capacity (with starlight)



I dont know if this info has been posted before or not in this thread. If so sorry, if not than sweet.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tacticool

we are paying 30 Rs tax on 100 Rs mobile card. when will economy come back on track?
I think 99 Rs tax on 100 Rs card.
Alkhalid 2 ?
JF-17 block-2 ?
PN submarines ?
Eurofighter ?
Nothing is materializing.......................



Imran Khan said:


> tank is in cold store till economy come back on track


we are paying 30 Rs tax on 100 Rs mobile card. when will economy come back on track?
I think 99 Rs tax on 100 Rs card.
Alkhalid 2 ?
JF-17 block-2 ?
PN submarines ?
Eurofighter ?
Nothing is materializing.......................


----------



## Rain

Abdul_Haseeb said:


> we are paying 30 Rs tax on 100 Rs mobile card. when will economy come back on track?
> I think 99 Rs tax on 100 Rs card.
> Alkhalid 2 ?
> JF-17 block-2 ?
> PN submarines ?
> Eurofighter ?
> Nothing is materializing.......................
> 
> 
> we are paying 30 Rs tax on 100 Rs mobile card. when will economy come back on track?
> I think 99 Rs tax on 100 Rs card.
> Alkhalid 2 ?
> JF-17 block-2 ?
> PN submarines ?
> Eurofighter ?
> Nothing is materializing.......................



We pay but how much of the money gets to govt? only a fraction sir, make that fraction a little bigger all will be ok.


----------



## Tacticool

Rain said:


> We pay but how much of the money gets to govt? only a fraction sir, make that fraction a little bigger all will be ok.



Making that fraction bigger is a government issue. They build a bridge with our taxes and boost as they've spent their own.


----------



## Tacticool

Why don't PA tanks have a remote weapon station? Most modern tanks have remote weapon station, which is specially useful in urban combat.


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

Abdul_Haseeb said:


> Why don't PA tanks have a remote weapon station? Most modern tanks have remote weapon station, which is specially useful in urban combat.



the 12.7 mm 5o cal on AK is remote. initially it was just a remote controlled coaxil system with a camera for targeting but now it is more advanced with day night ang gyro stability..it is also being placed on muhafiz but the manufacturing process is slow ..lack of funds.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> the 12.7 mm 5o cal on AK is remote. initially it was just a remote controlled coaxil system with a camera for targeting but now it is more advanced with day night ang gyro stability..*it is also being placed on muhafiz but the manufacturing process is slow *..lack of funds.



Mohafiz II with an RCWs was already shown at ideas this year.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## IamINDIA

sooo... where is it?


----------



## Tacticool

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Mohafiz II with an RCWs was already shown at ideas this year.



Can you post pictures of mohafiz 2


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Abdul_Haseeb said:


> Can you post pictures of mohafiz 2



It has already won import orders:







The newer version:


*Mohafiz III
*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Umair Nawaz

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It has already won import orders:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The newer version:
> 
> 
> *Mohafiz III
> *



Who placed orders??


----------



## PWFI

Umair Nawaz said:


> Who placed orders??



Salam o alaikum brother, i think it must be Iraq.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tacticool

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It has already won import orders:
> 
> In karachi police mohafiz vehicles failed to stop bullets, what is progress on investigations on that issue?


----------



## PWFI

Abdul_Haseeb said:


> In karachi police mohafiz vehicles failed to stop bullets, what is progress on investigations on that issue?



There was a clear answer for this question by Nabil_05 ......it was due to downgraded versions and not certified by HIT, i hope some senior members can put some lights.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Umair Nawaz

PWFI said:


> Salam o alaikum brother, i think it must be Iraq.



Walaikum Salam Bro how r u.

He said ''it already won ORDERS not order.''

So i think he is reflecting some other orders too besides 2006's iraq order.


----------



## ChengDao

Congratulations Pakistan! May the Al Khalid II smash all enemies into the ground!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Desert Fox

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It has already won import orders:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The newer version:
> 
> 
> *Mohafiz III
> *



Are there more pictures of Mohafiz III and how come it's not mounted with heavy MG?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Desert Fox said:


> Are there more pictures of Mohafiz III and how come it's not mounted with heavy MG?



No, i dont have pics... but the hatch type thing you see is for a MG..


----------



## IND151

It weighs around 47 tons. But I think its upgraded version will weigh around 50 tons if PA wants more armor and equipment in AK-2


----------



## AUSTERLITZ

How good al khalid 2 penetration power will be decided on whether it has carousel autoloader or not.


----------



## Irfan Baloch

PWFI said:


> There was a clear answer for this question by Nabil_05 ......it was due to downgraded versions and not certified by HIT, i hope some senior members can put some lights.



what those Mohafiz vehicles faced were so much off the charts that it was same as sitting in a Sazuki

the other point to note is that Mohafiz is a lightly armored vehicle and only offers protection against the conventional rounds
not steel tiped AP rounds that were used against them. which even pierce the APC's.

an old school fiend of mine is fighting the Taliban scum in the Waziristan and he says that they have encountered the scumbags using AP rounds that pierce multiple walls of the houses like knife through butter.

the suppliers of the BLA, the terrorist gangs in Karachi and the TTP seem to be same because all these terrorists use AP rounds like normal rounds whereas militaries are normally use them only when specifically needed.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## muse

How do these AP rounds enter Pakistan? Where are they warehoused, how are they transported and distributed??

Forget it, let it remain another mystery - Irfan, to your knowledge has the PA ever said the Talib were a foreign funded militia?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Irfan Baloch

muse said:


> Irfan, to your knowledge has the PA ever said the Talib were a foreign funded militia?



they indirectly blame the entities in Afghanistan. the guy I was refering to is a serving Major who has led operations against the TTP. his accounts are personal where he says that the bullets slice through multiple layers of bricks and blocks etc and has seen them zipping past him. 
he vaguely referred to some incidents where they stuck their foreign handlers in Pakistan but didnt go in detail. we had only met once after like 15 years and I planned to visit him but then I din't get the time and I was to fly and he had to go back to the frontlines.

if you ever see any odd ISPR cleared statement from the military its normally very apologetic and mysterious. they dont say openly if its the Americans or Indians or Saudis but these "angry brothers" have ample load of these specialised weapons and ammo to take on the army head on. have you seen that picture of "improved" Zarar tank? what short work did their anti tank weapon did to it.


its an open secret that their source of funding is Saudis and UAE, rest is through extortion and bank robberies as far as the weapon supplies is concerned thats really mind boggling. the huge size and the continuation of such supplies has been kept intact and secure through out the conflict and it shows how helpless we are in disrupting them.

apple and orange comparisons are made again by born again anchors and politicians
saying Americans are talking to taliban so why shouldnt we?

forgetting the fact that Americans are occupiers, talking to deposed taliban who are fighting an invader.
whereas TTP doesnt recognise state of Pakistan, its constitution and its chief Justice. it uses talks to regroup and reorganise and does what it did in Mohmand and Sawat.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Keshav Murali

Irfan Baloch said:


> his accounts are personal where he says that the bullets slice through multiple layers of bricks and blocks etc and has seen them zipping past him.



Sir, that sounds like a 7.62 mm AP Full Metal Jacket round. They have been known to punch through 2 to 3 household cement walls or 20-30 plates of drywall. Bricks are easy for those things.



Irfan Baloch said:


> have you seen that picture of "improved" Zarar tank? what short work did their anti tank weapon did to it.



Improved "Al-Zarrar" tank, if I am not mistaken is upgraded Type 59 with composite filler and heavy K-5 type ERA. I've seen pictures of it and side turret was penetrated IIRC. 

Best AT weapons available to TTP is RPG-7 with PG-7V or PG-7L or maybe improved PG-7V variant. These are all 1960s-70s warheads.

PG-7V Basic penetrates 260-300 mm RHA.
PG-7V improved penetrates 400-450 mm RHA.
PG-7VR penetrates 450-500 mm RHA.

All three are not advanced weapons but will easily penetrate turret side thanks to weak side turret protection of T-54A which cannot be changed with upgrades. But since news stated that Al-Zarrar survived multiple hits, I'd say that the warhead was PG-7V improved variant fired at frontal aspect.

Regards,
Keshav

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Keshav Murali

Also, for knowing about how well small arm rounds perform in real life against walls and homes, I'd recommend the

b o x o t r u t h . c o m / d o c s / t h e b o x o t r u t h . h t m

Deliberately spaced. Just remove the spaces and you get the real site.

Also, homes in the USA where the author lives have slightly thinner walls (by maybe half a cm) than we do.


----------



## Keshav Murali

Irfan Baloch sir, 

Also, there is no such thing as special AP rounds. There are basically three rounds for small arms.

JSP - Jacketed Soft Point - is a semi-jacketed soft point bullet which disintegrates on impact, causing great injury.

JHP - Jacketed Hollow Point - is the most accurate bullet and has a hollow tip which causes the bullet to expand on impact, transferring all it's kinetic energy and destroys muscles and tissue.

FMJ - Full Metal Jacket - Sometimes referred to as AP, FMJ is a soft core lead bullet encased by a thick case of steel and is commonly used against hard targets - targets hiding behind cover or vehicles.

Hope this helped.


----------



## Zarvan

Irfan Baloch said:


> they indirectly blame the entities in Afghanistan. the guy I was refering to is a serving Major who has led operations against the TTP. his accounts are personal where he says that the bullets slice through multiple layers of bricks and blocks etc and has seen them zipping past him.
> he vaguely referred to some incidents where they stuck their foreign handlers in Pakistan but didnt go in detail. we had only met once after like 15 years and I planned to visit him but then I din't get the time and I was to fly and he had to go back to the frontlines.
> 
> if you ever see any odd ISPR cleared statement from the military its normally very apologetic and mysterious. they dont say openly if its the Americans or Indians or Saudis but these "angry brothers" have ample load of these specialised weapons and ammo to take on the army head on. have you seen that picture of "improved" Zarar tank? what short work did their anti tank weapon did to it.
> 
> 
> its an open secret that their source of funding is Saudis and UAE, rest is through extortion and bank robberies as far as the weapon supplies is concerned thats really mind boggling. the huge size and the continuation of such supplies has been kept intact and secure through out the conflict and it shows how helpless we are in disrupting them.
> 
> apple and orange comparisons are made again by born again anchors and politicians
> saying Americans are talking to taliban so why shouldnt we?
> 
> forgetting the fact that Americans are occupiers, talking to deposed taliban who are fighting an invader.
> whereas TTP doesnt recognise state of Pakistan, its constitution and its chief Justice. it uses talks to regroup and reorganise and does what it did in Mohmand and Sawat.


Sorry Sir TTP guys are not being funded by either Saudis nor from UAE Sir first of all they are getting local support because your army went into that area and about Al Khalid II I have a question when was work on this Tank started and is it progressing in right direction or we would have to go to some Chinese Tanks ? I mean Type 99 or may be the MBT 3000 the Tank in process of being produced


----------



## HRK

muse said:


> *How do these AP rounds enter Pakistan? Where are they warehoused, how are they transported and distributed??*
> 
> Forget it, let it remain another mystery - Irfan, to your knowledge has the PA ever said the Talib were a foreign funded militia?



Do you remember NATO container scandal......


----------



## Irfan Baloch

Zarvan said:


> Sorry Sir TTP guys are not being funded by either Saudis nor from UAE Sir first of all they are getting local support because your army went into that area and about Al Khalid II I have a question when was work on this Tank started and is it progressing in right direction or we would have to go to some Chinese Tanks ? I mean Type 99 or may be the MBT 3000 the Tank in process of being produced



yes there is a huge public support as well otherwise no insurgency against the state can exist but lets not fool ourselves. if people in Pakistan feel that TTP is doing the right thing then there are many Arab brothers who think the same and if they can fund Al Qaeda then they can fund anyone else who appears to be fighting the Americans and their allies.

that aside re question about our choice in tanks and its upgrades. well my dear given the financial constraints and current state of affairs, the choices are very narrow, mostly what you see is repackaged Chinese and Ukrainian tanks given some respective Arabic names.

regarding progress of Al Khalid variants and upgrades all I know is that the progress is not as smooth as it could have been in the time of peace. there is no chance of acquiring any new tanks from China etc. maybe some older versions will be bought from Ukraine and with a bit of touching up and upgrades they will be used as a filler while the AK -2 takes final shape . such projects are normally spread over decades and demand political stability and peace.

your angry brothers Taliban dont seem to be in the need of any peace and wont settle anything less than the throne in Islamabad and for that reason my dear, army will have to use what it has now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

Zarvan said:


> Sorry Sir TTP guys are not being funded by either Saudis nor from UAE Sir first of all they are getting local support because your army went into that area and about Al Khalid II I have a question when was work on this Tank started and is it progressing in right direction or we would have to go to some Chinese Tanks ? I mean Type 99 or may be the MBT 3000 the Tank in process of being produced



You are as confused as a squirrel!

First you say that 'your army' is attacking Taliban and went into war, then you later say 'we would...chinese tanks'.

So first make up your mind, is it our army or your army?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Armstrong

Irfan Baloch said:


> its an open secret that their source of funding is Saudis and UAE



And what exactly is the Army doing about it ? Surely we can't be so naive so as to assume that the Army is seeing all of that happening under their watch without any action taken whatsoever to contain it ? Or that if we - the civilians - can know about such things than the soldiers who are in the midst of things are oblivious to the Saudi or UAE connections & that they, knowing full well that their Generals aren't doing anything, haven't conspicuously voiced serious concerns on the lack of initiative shown by the army, at best or a small localized mutiny at the very worst ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zarvan

nuclearpak said:


> You are as confused as a squirrel!
> 
> First you say that 'your army' is attacking Taliban and went into war, then you later say 'we would...chinese tanks'.
> 
> So first make up your mind, is it our army or your army?


sir. I am not confuse I am against army on issues off following American orders to kill their own people and they should not do it at all what they should be doing is buying latest weapons and protect Pakistan and Muslims against enemies off Pakistan and Muslims like our beloved neighbor India and USA and Israel

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jango

Zarvan said:


> sir. I am not confuse I am against army on issues off following American orders to kill their own people and they should not do it at all what they should be doing is buying latest weapons and protect Pakistan and Muslims against enemies off Pakistan and Muslims like our beloved neighbor India and USA and Israel



So Taliban are not enemies of Pakistan?


----------



## Zarvan

nuclearpak said:


> So Taliban are not enemies of Pakistan?



no they are not USA is whose war you are fighting and killing your own people they want you to destroy Pakistan and keep fighting your own and you are doing exactly the same thing



Armstrong said:


> And what exactly is the Army doing about it ? Surely we can't be so naive so as to assume that the Army is seeing all of that happening under their watch without any action taken whatsoever to contain it ? Or that if we - the civilians - can know about such things than the soldiers who are in the midst of things are oblivious to the Saudi or UAE connections & that they, knowing full well that their Generals aren't doing anything, haven't conspicuously voiced serious concerns on the lack of initiative shown by the army, at best or a small localized mutiny at the very worst ?


do you thinkeven if they want they can do anything about it although its a lie and no proof at all


----------



## Armstrong

Zarvan said:


> do you thinkeven if they want they can do anything about it although its a lie and no proof at all



Absolutely if I knew that my brother was supporting the bunch of thugs who are responsible for killing my wife & kids, I'd put two bullets in my brother's head !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zarvan

Armstrong said:


> Absolutely if I knew that my brother was supporting the bunch of thugs who are responsible for killing my wife & kids, I'd put two bullets in my brother's head !



no sir you can't you can afford to mess with USA and emerge as victorious but not against Saudi Arabia they will make your life miserable in no time


----------



## Armstrong

Zarvan said:


> no sir you can't you can afford to mess with USA and emerge as victorious but not against Saudi Arabia they will make your life miserable in no time



Saudi Arabia will make our lives miserable in no time ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keshav Murali

Zarvan,

USA is a _thousand_ times more dangerous enemy to mess with when compared to Saudi Arabia.

I'd prefer that Pakistan take action against terrorists quickly. So far, I've seen extreme reluctance on part of Pakistan Army to fight against Taliban and Al-Qaeda. 



If Pakistan also hates Taliban and AQ this much, why don't you remove them quickly? It's not like the Pakistan Army can't fight against a rag-tag bunch of brainwashed guys with nothing to fight against air power and mechanised forces.


----------



## k!ng_0f_(~)3@rt$

Keshav Murali said:


> Zarvan,
> 
> USA is a _thousand_ times more dangerous enemy to mess with when compared to Saudi Arabia.
> 
> I'd prefer that Pakistan take action against terrorists quickly. So far, I've seen extreme reluctance on part of Pakistan Army to fight against Taliban and Al-Qaeda.
> 
> 
> 
> If Pakistan also hates Taliban and AQ this much, why don't you remove them quickly? It's not like the Pakistan Army can't fight against a rag-tag bunch of brainwashed guys with nothing to fight against air power and mechanised forces.



You mean we kill them like you killed Sikhs in Punjab back in 80s and 90s? Pak Army first priority is to do pin point attacks on them. If Army use Open Air Strike. It could kill lots of innocent people for sure....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keshav Murali

k!ng said:


> You mean we kill them like you killed Sikhs in Punjab back in 80s and 90s? Pak Army first priority is to do pin point attacks on them. If Army use Open Air Strike. It could kill lots of innocent people for sure....



You have ABSOLUTELY no idea what happened in Punjab. Do TTP and AQ really stay in areas thickly populated by civilians. It's not like a laser guided bomb has a CEP of 300 KM.


----------



## Keshav Murali

DELETED. DOUBLE POST.


----------



## Keshav Murali

DELETED. DOUBLE POST.


----------



## Irfan Baloch

Armstrong said:


> And what exactly is the Army doing about it ? Surely we can't be so naive so as to assume that the Army is seeing all of that happening under their watch without any action ?



its all over the news world. 
the problem is with lack of will and hypocrisy. our Muslim brother countries now dont even bother to hide their funding and do it in front of our faces just like they are helping the "freedom fighters" of Syria who have a tendency to follow the rituals of Hinda and Shimr , ripping the heart out of their victims and cutting the necks from the back of the neck to cause prolonged and maximum pain till death. 

another ritual these TTP have imported is that of the Kharjites who used to kill Muslim pilgrims and hack the bellies of pregnant mothers and kill the unborn child too. they are doing that to the people in Hangu and Parachinar. its all happening but we got thick blinders on our minds. just America needs to go and water will turn into milk and dust into gold. 

I dont blame Saudis and UAE, they hate Shias , they want them all dead, its their belief, but issue is with our army and security services who think as long as the victims are those select groups its all fine and lets not glare at those who give us loans or fuel on easy terms (nothing free though Arab is not as stupid as a Yankee)


WikiLeaks cables portray Saudi Arabia as a cash machine for terrorists | World news | The Guardian

Saudi Arabia, UAE financing extremism in south Punjab | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

Wikileaks: Saudi Arabia, UAE funded extremist networks in Pakistan &#8211; The Express Tribune

it has nothing to do with the thread unfortunately so this post might not last longer. fair enough
give it few decades and people will say TTP never ever killed a single Pakistani, it was all Zionists and US slave Pakistani army.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Yzd Khalifa

Armstrong said:


> _*Saudi Arabia*_ will make our lives miserable in no time ?



 can't help laughing at it too bro.



Armstrong said:


> And what exactly is the Army doing about it ? Surely we can't be so naive so as to assume that the Army is seeing all of that happening under their watch without any action taken whatsoever to contain it ? Or that if we - the civilians - can know about such things than the soldiers who are in the midst of things are oblivious to the Saudi or UAE connections & that they, knowing full well that their Generals aren't doing anything, haven't conspicuously voiced serious concerns on the lack of initiative shown by the army, at best or a small localized mutiny at the very worst ?



Why is it when it comes to terror everybody points his fingers at the UAE and KSA? :/ the only thing KSA and Pakistan have created was the Taliban.



Keshav Murali said:


> Zarvan,
> 
> *USA is a thousand times more dangerous enemy to mess with when compared to Saudi Arabia.*
> 
> I'd prefer that Pakistan take action against terrorists quickly. So far, I've seen extreme reluctance on part of Pakistan Army to fight against Taliban and Al-Qaeda.
> 
> 
> 
> If Pakistan also hates Taliban and AQ this much, why don't you remove them quickly? It's not like the Pakistan Army can't fight against a rag-tag bunch of brainwashed guys with nothing to fight against air power and mechanised forces.



Zarvan must be smoking something  KSA has never been hostile toward Pakistan :/


----------



## AUSTERLITZ

The topic was about al khalid 2.Diverting from topic.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## alimobin memon

TOPIC: An Insight into Al Khalid II MBT.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## amanwas

These equipments are useless against Taliban

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Keshav Murali

amanwas said:


> These equipments are useless against Taliban



How, may I ask?


----------



## Tacticool

nuclearpak said:


> So Taliban are not enemies of Pakistan?



Scratch your brother's face with knife. Then say he is my enemy...............
Mafhoom of hadith...
"A muslim is a brother of another muslim, he doesn't do injustice with him and doesn't hand him to any tyrant."


----------



## HariPrasad

Aeronaut said:


> @ Taimikhan.
> 
> Sir i think Saudis were negotiating for 300 AK's and they did field trails too back in 2006.
> 
> Do you have any info on that ?



Dude, Saudi have the best in the world arms available to them. Why will they go for AK. I have been listening this for at least 7-8 years.

It was supposed to inducted in 2012 as per some forum member. What is the status today.


----------



## Beerbal

Can some one post possible Pics of AK-II?? Some artists Imagination will also work..


----------



## Zarvan

Yzd Khalifa said:


> can't help laughing at it too bro.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it when it comes to terror everybody points his fingers at the UAE and KSA? :/ the only thing KSA and Pakistan have created was the Taliban.
> 
> 
> 
> Zarvan must be smoking something  KSA has never been hostile toward Pakistan :/



Understand what I said Brother than talk and we should stop talking about Al Khalid II now either it is not in the making or something else is going on of we should just wait for the Pakistan Army to reveal it if they are still working on it

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Yzd Khalifa

HariPrasad said:


> Dude, Saudi have the best in the world arms available to them. Why will they go for AK. I have been listening this for at least 7-8 years.
> 
> It was supposed to inducted in 2012 as per some forum member. What is the status today.



Actually the SANG has been testing them for a while now, a decision shall be made soon.



Zarvan said:


> Understand what I said Brother than talk and we should stop talking about Al Khalid II now either it is not in the making or something else is going on of we should just wait for the Pakistan Army to reveal it if they are still working on it



Bro, I'm sure you heard about sarcasm before, rite?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zarvan

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Actually the SANG has been testing them for a while now, a decision shall be made soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Bro, I'm sure you heard about sarcasm before, rite?


SANG should be equipped with lot of weapons in fact they should be turned into full Army at least 200000 of them and should have Chinese and Russian Tanks and Artillery and APC and also their own Commandos and than go for Air Force and Navy too


----------



## Yzd Khalifa

Zarvan said:


> SANG should be equipped with lot of weapons in fact they should be turned into full Army at least 200000 of them and should have Chinese and Russian Tanks and Artillery and APC and also their own Commandos and than go for Air Force and Navy too



I support building up an independant Air Force of the SANG, but nothing else.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HariPrasad

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Actually the SANG has been testing them for a while now, a decision shall be made soon.



This type of Under Power low Muzzle velocity, inferior protected, low electronic tanks are for cash crunch countries. SA is not one of them. I will send you sweets if SA selects it.


----------



## Yzd Khalifa

HariPrasad said:


> This type of Under Power low Muzzle velocity, inferior protected, low electronic tanks are for cash crunch countries. SA is not one of them. I will send you sweets if SA selects it.



What do you mean by '' Low muzzle '' tanks?  Al-Khalid's price tag is close to $5 million bro! Give it a rest.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HariPrasad

Yzd Khalifa said:


> What do you mean by '' Low muzzle '' tanks?  Al-Khalid's price tag is close to $5 million bro! Give it a rest.



Velocity of round fire.


----------



## Zarvan

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I support building up an independant Air Force of the SANG, but nothing else.



if not navy SANG should have Tanks and artillery and Commandos


----------



## Dazzler

HariPrasad said:


> Velocity of round fire.



Did u check mighty arjun's shell velocity? Or t -90s?

Ak - 1730-40m/s (du) 1760 (tungsten)

Arjun - 1550m/s 

T-90 - 1550-1650m/s

Who will struggle?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## HariPrasad

Dazzler said:


> Did u check mighty arjun's shell velocity? Or t -90s?
> 
> Ak - 1730-40m/s (du) 1760 (tungsten)
> 
> Arjun - 1550m/s
> 
> T-90 - 1550-1650m/s
> 
> Who will struggle?



With which round?



Dazzler said:


> Did u check mighty arjun's shell velocity? Or t -90s?
> 
> Ak - 1730-40m/s (du) 1760 (tungsten)
> 
> Arjun - 1550m/s
> 
> T-90 - 1550-1650m/s
> 
> Who will struggle?



With which round?


----------



## Gentelman

HariPrasad said:


> This type of Under Power low Muzzle velocity, inferior protected, low electronic tanks are for cash crunch countries. SA is not one of them. I will send you sweets if SA selects it.



its not MBT-2000 bro
its Al-Khalid
low electronic warfare??
you surely think that the french E/W equips are low graded?
Inferior protected? Something is surprising for you in AK 2 and AK 1 has also upgraded composite armour with ERA
Muzzle velocity is more than T-90 & Arjum
Under power?? Issue solved with new 1500hp engine in AK1


----------



## Zarvan

What I think is MBT 3000 which model was shown by China is in fact AL Khalid II that is what I think


----------



## HariPrasad

Gentelman said:


> its not MBT-2000 bro
> its Al-Khalid
> low electronic warfare??
> you surely think that the french E/W equips are low graded?
> Inferior protected? Something is surprising for you in AK 2 and AK 1 has also upgraded composite armour with ERA&#8230;
> Muzzle velocity is more than T-90 & Arjum&#8230;&#8230;
> Under power?? Issue solved with new 1500hp engine in AK1&#8230;



You guys are really funny. I like it. I have been hearing this for AK and JF 17 for last 5 to 6 years.


----------



## razgriz19

how many Al-khalids do we have so far?


----------



## Zarvan

MBT 3000 or may be AL Khalid 2 also and @HariPrasad you are hearing about JF-17 and AK because we have successfully delivered them and that in large numbers and are still delivering them and their much improved models are also coming up


----------



## HariPrasad

Zarvan said:


> MBT 3000 or may be AL Khalid 2 also and @HariPrasad you are hearing about JF-17 and AK because we have successfully delivered them and that in large numbers and are still delivering them and their much improved models are also coming up



Still Delivering? How much Ak and JF are delivered in last couple of years of time my dear?


----------



## Zarvan

HariPrasad said:


> Still Delivering? How much Ak and JF are delivered in last couple of years of time my dear?


50 JF-17 and next squadron of JF-17 is would be block which would have improved engine and avionics and also Air fueling and some more weapons on it and AL-Khalid is being delivered to our Army and work on Al Khalid 2 is also going on and we may get T 129 Attack helicopters too soon

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HariPrasad

Zarvan said:


> 50 JF-17 and next squadron of JF-17 is would be block which would have improved engine and avionics and also Air fueling and some more weapons on it and AL-Khalid is being delivered to our Army and work on Al Khalid 2 is also going on and we may get T 129 Attack helicopters too soon



DO you have any problem in understanding my post?


----------



## Zarvan

HariPrasad said:


> DO you have any problem in understanding my post?



Mr Producing a plane and testing it takes time Mr you are not delivering needles Sir they are fighter jets and Tanks



HariPrasad said:


> DO you have any problem in understanding my post?



Mr Producing a plane and testing it takes time Mr you are not delivering needles Sir they are fighter jets and Tanks


----------



## HariPrasad

Zarvan said:


> Mr Producing a plane and testing it takes time Mr you are not delivering needles Sir they are fighter jets and Tanks
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Producing a plane and testing it takes time Mr you are not delivering needles Sir they are fighter jets and Tanks



So let us end the discussion since I am not getting the answer of the question I asked. Good bye!


----------



## Zarvan

HariPrasad said:


> So let us end the discussion since I am not getting the answer of the question I asked. Good bye!



Sir you asked the same question Sir I answered check first what you asked


----------



## HariPrasad

Zarvan said:


> Sir you asked the same question Sir I answered check first what you asked



My dear Zarvan I asked how many AK and JF are inducted in last 2 years. I was expecting an answer in numeric figures. I hear a philosophy that planes and tanks are not easy to produce etc.


----------



## Zarvan

HariPrasad said:


> My dear Zarvan I asked how many AK and JF are inducted in last 2 years. I was expecting an answer in numeric figures. I hear a philosophy that planes and tanks are not easy to produce etc.



Sir I don't know the exact number but they are being produced what Pakistan inducts whole squadron of JF-17 not few planes


----------



## Umair Nawaz

HariPrasad said:


> With which round?
> 
> 
> 
> With which round?



What an idiot u r. He has mentioned the rounds in the same post ur quoting.

Ak; 1730-40m/s for Depleted Uranium round (DU). 

and 1760 for normal Tungsten rounds.


Anyways this thread is for mature people and standard of discussion is high so i suggest u to have a lollipop and go to School.


----------



## HariPrasad

Umair Nawaz said:


> What an idiot u r. He has mentioned the rounds in the same post ur quoting.
> 
> Ak; 1730-40m/s for Depleted Uranium round (DU).
> 
> and 1760 for normal Tungsten rounds.
> 
> 
> Anyways this thread is for mature people and standard of discussion is high so i suggest u to have a lollipop and go to School.



OK Mr. Super Intelligent I skipped it as they were in short form. 

Now Pl refer to AK official website link I provided.

Army Guide - Al-Khalid, Main battle tank

It says that Muzzle velocity for APFSDS round is 1760 m/s which is over 2100 m/s for Arjun MK 1

AK HEAT (muzzle velocity 850 m/s) and HE-FRAG (muzzle velocity 950 m/s) which is at least 500 m/s high for arjun MK 1.

Arjun gun is classified as super velocity gun at Par with L series gun of Germany used in Abrahm. it operates at a very high pressure of 800 MPa. 

It uses hyper velocity ammunition which can parish any armor. 

120 Millimetre MBT Arjun Armament System

Now do not cheat your country man by giving false data. Tell them that AK can fire HEAT (muzzle velocity 850 m/s) and HE-FRAG (muzzle velocity 950 m/s) only. 

And prove your maturity by writing something meaningful which doesn't appear in it. Saying me idiot or some body to go to school doesn't make you great. Now you have over 4000 post to your account. People expect more from you on PDF.


----------



## Rain

HariPrasad said:


> OK Mr. Super Intelligent I skipped it as they were in short form.
> 
> Now Pl refer to AK official website link I provided.
> 
> Army Guide - Al-Khalid, Main battle tank
> 
> It says that Muzzle velocity for APFSDS round is 1760 m/s which is over 2100 m/s for Arjun MK 1
> 
> AK HEAT (muzzle velocity 850 m/s) and HE-FRAG (muzzle velocity 950 m/s) which is at least 500 m/s high for arjun MK 1.
> 
> Arjun gun is classified as super velocity gun at Par with L series gun of Germany used in Abrahm. it operates at a very high pressure of 800 MPa.
> 
> It uses hyper velocity ammunition which can parish any armor.
> 
> 120 Millimetre MBT Arjun Armament System
> 
> Now do not cheat your country man by giving false data. Tell them that AK can fire HEAT (muzzle velocity 850 m/s) and HE-FRAG (muzzle velocity 950 m/s) only.
> 
> And prove your maturity by writing something meaningful which doesn't appear in it. Saying me idiot or some body to go to school doesn't make you great. Now you have over 4000 post to your account. People expect more from you on PDF.



If you can spare a few minutes get ur info updated from nonother then DRDO site data on Arjun tank gun

120 Millimetre MBT Arjun Armament System

hope it will clearify muzzle velocity issue.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

HariPrasad said:


> With which round?
> 
> 
> 
> With which round?




most effective round against composite armour i.e. APFSDS


----------



## Dazzler

HariPrasad said:


> Still Delivering? How much Ak and JF are delivered in last couple of years of time my dear?



This is not JFT thread so ask relevant questions please.

Ak, AK-1 delivered, AK-2 in development, where is Arjun? DRDO pleaded IA to take atleast 500 pieces to breakeven, IA took just 124, asked for MK1 with 124. Where are you by the way?

MBT 3000 is NOT AK-2, there are plenty of differences in the two.



HariPrasad said:


> OK Mr. Super Intelligent I skipped it as they were in short form.
> 
> Now Pl refer to AK official website link I provided.
> 
> Army Guide - Al-Khalid, Main battle tank
> 
> It says that Muzzle velocity for APFSDS round is 1760 m/s which is over 2100 m/s for Arjun MK 1
> 
> AK HEAT (muzzle velocity 850 m/s) and HE-FRAG (muzzle velocity 950 m/s) which is at least 500 m/s high for arjun MK 1.
> 
> Arjun gun is classified as super velocity gun at Par with L series gun of Germany used in Abrahm. it operates at a very high pressure of 800 MPa.
> 
> It uses hyper velocity ammunition which can parish any armor.
> 
> 120 Millimetre MBT Arjun Armament System
> 
> Now do not cheat your country man by giving false data. Tell them that AK can fire HEAT (muzzle velocity 850 m/s) and HE-FRAG (muzzle velocity 950 m/s) only.
> 
> And prove your maturity by writing something meaningful which doesn't appear in it. Saying me idiot or some body to go to school doesn't make you great. Now you have over 4000 post to your account. People expect more from you on PDF.



Army guide has obsolete data, arjun's gun/ armament has too many drawbacks, will tell you more if you ask ;D

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Umair Nawaz

HariPrasad said:


> OK Mr. Super Intelligent I skipped it as they were in short form.
> 
> Now Pl refer to AK official website link I provided.
> 
> Army Guide - Al-Khalid, Main battle tank
> 
> It says that Muzzle velocity for APFSDS round is 1760 m/s which is over 2100 m/s for Arjun MK 1
> 
> AK HEAT (muzzle velocity 850 m/s) and HE-FRAG (muzzle velocity 950 m/s) which is at least 500 m/s high for arjun MK 1.
> 
> Arjun gun is classified as super velocity gun at Par with L series gun of Germany used in Abrahm. it operates at a very high pressure of 800 MPa.
> 
> It uses hyper velocity ammunition which can parish any armor.
> 
> 120 Millimetre MBT Arjun Armament System
> 
> Now do not cheat your country man by giving false data. Tell them that AK can fire HEAT (muzzle velocity 850 m/s) and HE-FRAG (muzzle velocity 950 m/s) only.
> 
> And prove your maturity by writing something meaningful which doesn't appear in it. Saying me idiot or some body to go to school doesn't make you great. Now you have over 4000 post to your account. People expect more from you on PDF.





Army Guides......

Dude like i said go and have a lollipop this is mature people's discussion.


----------



## HariPrasad

Umair Nawaz said:


> Army Guides......
> 
> Dude like i said go and have a lollipop this is mature people's discussion.



What else a looser can say when he has no argument to prove his point. You are exposed.



Dazzler said:


> This is not JFT thread so ask relevant questions please.
> 
> Ak, AK-1 delivered, AK-2 in development, where is Arjun? DRDO pleaded IA to take atleast 500 pieces to breakeven, IA took just 124, asked for MK1 with 124. Where are you by the way?
> 
> MBT 3000 is NOT AK-2, there are plenty of differences in the two.
> 
> 
> 
> Army guide has obsolete data, arjun's gun/ armament has too many drawbacks, will tell you more if you ask ;D



Than why do not put a new source that AK gun was changed or modified to match the capability you stated? Do you have any authentic source to prove otherwise than the source I quoted.


----------



## HariPrasad

Dazzler said:


> most effective round against composite armour i.e. APFSDS



Pl understand the context. We are discussing the Muzzle velocity of different rounds fired by AK.


----------



## Gentelman

HariPrasad said:


> You guys are really funny. I like it. I have been hearing this for AK and JF 17 for last 5 to 6 years.



listening of JFT and AKs coz couldnot listen anything about Arjun & LCA.
baby brodra tired of waiting LCA & Arjun
LCA with thousands certificates and FOC certified still just a show beauty
brodra we are with you on this painful movement



HariPrasad said:


> Pl understand the context. We are discussing the Muzzle velocity of different rounds fired by AK.



Go and have a look at DRDO for Arjun muzzle velocity&#8230;&#8230;
it dont match with your stated figures in #184 provided by your super doper Arny Guide&#8230;


----------



## HariPrasad

Gentelman said:


> listening of JFT and AKs coz couldnot listen anything about Arjun & LCA.
> baby brodra tired of waiting LCA & Arjun&#8230;
> LCA with thousands certificates and FOC certified still just a show beauty&#8230;&#8230;
> brodra we are with you on this painful movement&#8230;&#8230;
> 
> 
> 
> Go and have a look at DRDO for Arjun muzzle velocity&#8230;&#8230;
> it dont match with your stated figures in #184 provided by your super doper Arny Guide&#8230;



You once again prove my point that you guys are really funny. You are talking of Arjun and LCA. DO you know that your much hyped JF 17 is unable to perform basic maneuver even after induction of So many years? When was JF 17 given FOC? When were the BVR tests carried out? 

Pl provide the source that Arjun is not meeting Muzzle velocity requirement. Do not talk in air like most of your brethren do.


----------



## That Guy

Guys, stop being asshats and stick to the topic.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

HariPrasad said:


> What else a looser can say when he has no argument to prove his point. You are exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> Than why do not put a new source that AK gun was changed or modified to match the capability you stated? Do you have any authentic source to prove otherwise than the source I quoted.


The only person acting juvenial in this forum is u after u being told Army guides has obsolete data. Even i remember what u said to that Russian member in AK comparison with contemporary Tanks thread when he himself admitted AK is superior to T-90.


----------



## HariPrasad

Umair Nawaz said:


> The only person acting juvenial in this forum is u after u being told Army guides has obsolete data. Even i remember what u said to that Russian member in AK comparison with contemporary Tanks thread when he himself admitted AK is superior to T-90.



As usual you are talking without reference. Why do not you give reference to that. Everything is there on record. 

If you want to believe that AK is superior to T90 than I have no objection. You can believe it even superior to Abrams and Markava and lacrac etc. but that won't change reality. Pakistan would have never bought T 80 if AK is superior to T 90.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

HariPrasad said:


> As usual you are talking without reference. Why do not you give reference to that. Everything is there on record.
> 
> If you want to believe that AK is superior to T90 than I have no objection. You can believe it even superior to Abrams and Markava and lacrac etc. but that won't change reality. Pakistan would have never bought T 80 if AK is superior to T 90.




What r u a Psycho?

u have read the thread where the specs of both were compared!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the presence of International members and few of them were military professionals from their respected countries in AK comparision with contemporary tanks in world thread!!!

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/22400-pa-tanks-comparison-contempory-tanks.html

and in same bloody thread u were told why did Pak army ordered few T-80UD tanks just 320 dont make yr frontline tank and they arnt superior to AK. But u banyas r so think headed that even after clarifications a million times u still fail to comprehend.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/22400-pa-tanks-comparison-contempory-tanks-56.html


----------



## HariPrasad

Umair Nawaz said:


> What r u a Psycho?
> 
> u have read the thread where the specs of both were compared!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the presence of International members and few of them were military professionals from their respected countries in AK comparision with contemporary tanks in world thread!!!
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/22400-pa-tanks-comparison-contempory-tanks.html
> 
> and in same bloody thread u were told why did Pak army ordered few T-80UD tanks just 320 dont make yr frontline tank and they arnt superior to AK. But u banyas r so think headed that even after clarifications a million times u still fail to comprehend.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/22400-pa-tanks-comparison-contempory-tanks-56.html



What do you find in my post to reach a conclusion that I am a psycho?

Why shoud a Baniya believe what ever you say Numbers of time if it is unbelievable. Telling me a Baniya or Psycho will not make you great.

So you are citing PDF discussion as the source of authentic Information right?

Now If I cite a post of a Pakistani member accepting AK's inferiority over other tank than will you accept that as proof?

I have read numbers of tank compression articles and literature but AK is no where in world's top tank. On other hand T 90 is invariably there in top tank list.

And yes now I am giving this discussion a rest as I do not have a previlage of arguing too long without receiving infraction on PDF as I am an Indian Member. Believe what ever make you happy.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

HariPrasad said:


> What do you find in my post to reach a conclusion that I am a psycho?
> 
> Why shoud a Baniya believe what ever you say Numbers of time if it is unbelievable. Telling me a Baniya or Psycho will not make you great.
> 
> So you are citing PDF discussion as the source of authentic Information right?
> 
> Now If I cite a post of a Pakistani member accepting AK's inferiority over other tank than will you accept that as proof?
> 
> I have read numbers of tank compression articles and literature but AK is no where in world's top tank. On other hand T 90 is invariably there in top tank list.
> 
> And yes now I am giving this discussion a rest as I do not have a previlage of arguing too long without receiving infraction on PDF as I am an Indian Member. Believe what ever make you happy.




U and your sources like Army Guides

Kiddo if u dont wish to learn and get something in yr tiny brain then get out of our forum and go to a psychiatrist. He will tell u whats yr problem. Every Madman thinks he is not mad but others are, u have same problem.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Black Eagle 90

I would wish that HIT had been able to produce about 700-750 Al-Khalid-I and also started manufacturing about 700-1100 Al-Khalid-IIs for 5 years time and R&D on Al-Khalid-IIIs


----------



## RAMPAGE

Black Eagle 90 said:


> I would wish that HIT had been able to produce about 700-750 Al-Khalid-I and also started manufacturing about 700-1100 Al-Khalid-IIs for 5 years time and R&D on Al-Khalid-IIIs


All in due time my impatient friend, all in due time. first we have to revive our economy. until then, the nukes will keep our enemies at bay !!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## rockstar08

this tanks sounds good  cant wait to see this at borders


----------



## Glitcher

Can you guys tell me any upgraded model of al zarar or any development on that platform

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Inception-06

Glitcher said:


> Can you guys tell me any upgraded model of al zarar or any development on that platform



There are 2 different Types from Alzarar in service and 3 were shown on Pakistan defence Ideas......

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Glitcher

Ulla said:


> There are 2 different Types from Alzarar in service and 3 were shown on Pakistan defence Ideas......



is there any thread of al zarar

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Inception-06

Glitcher said:


> is there any thread of al zarar



no, I dont know why !


----------



## Inception-06

Glitcher said:


> Can you guys tell me any upgraded model of al zarar or any development on that platform



HIT presented since 1999 3 Types of Alzarar Tank, from which 2 Types are in service:


Type 1 with a lot of ERA and notice the skirts under the turret it looks like they did copy it from the T-80UD Skirt:












----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Type 2 has not the "T-80 turret skirts":









Type 3 looks modern, but I dont know it has less or more ERA protection than Type 1 and Type 2, also it has not the Turret Skirts:







The sense of the turret-side skirts was:

"Rubber skirts hangs from the turret front which is believed to reduce the signature of the T-80U and deflect top attack bomblets."





http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4413.html


It is sad that the Alkhalid Tank, Alzarrar Tanks and the Type-85IIMP have not this turret skirts.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Inception-06

All Pakistani Tanks dont have the "The forward skirt element" like The T-80 UD has it, what is the sense of this "forward skin" to reduce the sandy-dust during driving ? When Yes why Pakistani Tanks dont have it, specially the Alkhaklid Tank which was made for"desert conditions" ^^

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tacticool

How many type 59 left for up gradation?
I got news that HIT is manufacturing gym weights for Pakistan army these days. Kaam thap hai sara.


----------



## Dazzler

Abdul_Haseeb said:


> How many type 59 left for up gradation?
> I got news that HIT is manufacturing gym weights for Pakistan army these days. Kaam thap hai sara.



funny, where do u get such news from?


----------



## Kompromat

Gents can we please keep the Al-Zarrar debate to the Al-Zarrar threads?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Glitcher

Aeronaut said:


> Gents can we please keep the Al-Zarrar debate to the Al-Zarrar threads?



can you provide the link thanx in advance



Aeronaut said:


> Gents can we please keep the Al-Zarrar debate to the Al-Zarrar threads?



can you provide the link thanx in advance


----------



## Kompromat

Glitcher said:


> can you provide the link thanx in advance
> 
> 
> 
> can you provide the link thanx in advance



http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/43232-al-zarrar-mbt-news-updates-discussions.html


----------



## Kompromat

Al-Khalid Tank

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Kompromat



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kompromat



Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


>


Sir by looking at these pictures that it is highly possible that MBT-3000 can be Al-Khalid II Sir


----------



## Black Eagle 90

Aeronaut said:


> Al-Khalid Tank



This is AK-I and we need some pictures from AK-IIs


----------



## Inception-06

Aeronaut said:


> Gents can we please keep the Al-Zarrar debate to the Al-Zarrar threads?




A selam Brother

Could you please so nice and write your thoughts about my posts of the Alzarrar Tank, apki boat mehr bani !


----------



## JOEY TRIBIANI

HAAINN ya rule kis nay banaya ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JOEY TRIBIANI

indian ronay lagain to samajh jao khalid border pay ha

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zarvan

Pakistan&#8217;s Al Khalid Tank is widely being considered one of the most competent Main Battle Tanks (MBTs) in the global arms market. The Al Khalid II is said to have a new armour that has been tested to defeat all known 120mm and 125mm rounds.

This special armour is a major technological breakthrough for Pakistan. The tank has received a new transmission and revised electronic turret control.This was stated by Syed Muhammad Ali, the first certified military concept tank designer in Pakistan.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...2102094129.165007.300668344129&type=1&theater @DESERT FIGHTER @Imran Khan @Aeronaut @Oscar @nuclearpak @Yzd Khalifa @Arabian Legend @BLACKEAGLE @balixd @mafiya @Areesh @A.Rafay @Rafi @RazPaK @AUz

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

mari jaan we didn't export a single alkhalid tank till now

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## shuntmaster

Is Al-Khalid Chinese designed? It has very close resemblance to the Chinese Type-90/MBT-2000...


----------



## Informant

Needs additional armour for turret.


----------



## Gentelman

Imran Khan said:


> mari jaan we didn't export a single alkhalid tank till now



you ain't sure are you???
try googling

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Imran Khan said:


> mari jaan we didn't export a single alkhalid tank till now



we did to Srilanka in lease to fight Tamil indian terrorists. Thats how they became interested to buy them after seeing their performances.



shuntmaster said:


> Is Al-Khalid Chinese designed? It has very close resemblance to the Chinese Type-90/MBT-2000...



Ah Dumbo yr a senior member and asking basic Question.

See wikipedia for it. Atleast it also has a good info abt its development.



Informant said:


> Needs additional armour for turret.



that problem is solved in AK-2.


----------



## Gentelman

shuntmaster said:


> Is Al-Khalid Chinese designed? It has very close resemblance to the Chinese Type-90/MBT-2000...



Its result of JV.
Al Khalid is based on PT-03 while Mbt on Pt-04.
Pt-02 was rejected by pakistan coz of its high cost while PA was not satisfied with performance of Pt01 & Pt-04 systems were not time tested and PA were not interested in Chinese ECM & engine.


----------



## shuntmaster

Gentelman said:


> Its result of JV.
> Al Khalid is based on PT-03 while Mbt on Pt-04.
> Pt-02 was rejected by pakistan coz of its high cost while PA was not satisfied with performance of Pt01 & Pt-04 systems were not time tested and PA were not interested in Chinese ECM & engine.



What is pakistani contribution to the development of AlKhalid?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> Pakistans Al Khalid Tank is widely being considered one of the most competent Main Battle Tanks (MBTs) in the global arms market. The Al Khalid II is said to have a new armour that has been tested to defeat all known 120mm and 125mm rounds.
> 
> This special armour is a major technological breakthrough for Pakistan. The tank has received a new transmission and revised electronic turret control.This was stated by Syed Muhammad Ali, the first certified military concept tank designer in Pakistan.
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...2102094129.165007.300668344129&type=1&theater @DESERT FIGHTER @Imran Khan @Aeronaut @Oscar @nuclearpak @Yzd Khalifa @Arabian Legend @BLACKEAGLE @balixd @mafiya @Areesh @A.Rafay @Rafi @RazPaK @AUz



This is not AK-II ... but AK or AK-I... and this info has been posted before...



shuntmaster said:


> What is pakistani contribution to the development of AlKhalid?



https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defence.pk%2Fforums%2Fpakistan-army%2F127686-al-khalid-tank-type-90-iim-mbt-2000-information-pool-37.html&ei=tSdlUq_vO4ev0QXS5oDwBw&usg=AFQjCNEyIxZEyalvZbNOC0rpwXSi2ZEM1w&bvm=bv.54934254,d.Yms



Everything.


----------



## Gentelman

shuntmaster said:


> What is pakistani contribution to the development of AlKhalid?



about contribution maybe search JV in dictionary&#8230;&#8230;
btw Joint development involves both countries experts in R&D along with testing but it was something old now its AK-2 time which is indigenous. 
Mireovet AK-1 gun is Pakistani and it fires Pakistani made DU round.


----------



## Keshav Murali

shuntmaster said:


> Is Al-Khalid Chinese designed? It has very close resemblance to the Chinese Type-90/MBT-2000...


Al-Khalid is a tank that was originally based on the Type 90, with some differences. Chinese designers worked on the project

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Keshav Murali said:


> Al-Khalid is a tank that was originally based on the Type 90, with some differences. Chinese designers worked on the project


its APS+ IBMS and many other r also Pakistani made.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Donatello

Keshav Murali said:


> Al-Khalid is a tank that was originally based on the Type 90, with some differences. Chinese designers worked on the project



Al-Khalid is based on the MBT-2000.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tacticool

Gentelman said:


> about contribution maybe search JV in dictionary&#8230;&#8230;
> btw Joint development involves both countries experts in R&D along with testing but it was something old now its AK-2 time which is indigenous.
> Mireovet AK-1 gun is Pakistani and it fires Pakistani made DU round.


Is there any news about ak 2. heared that its 2 prototypes were being tested in 2012


----------



## Tacticool

Umair Nawaz said:


> we did to Srilanka in lease to fight Tamil indian terrorists. Thats how they became interested to buy them after seeing their performances.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah Dumbo yr a senior member and asking basic Question.
> 
> See wikipedia for it. Atleast it also has a good info abt its development.
> 
> 
> 
> that problem is solved in AK-2.


means you have seen ak 2 prototype


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Keshav Murali said:


> Al-Khalid is a tank that was originally based on the Type 90, with some differences. Chinese designers worked on the project



So please enlighten us abt the chinese systems used in AK?


----------



## Zarvan

Abdul_Haseeb said:


> Is there any news about ak 2. heared that its 2 prototypes were being tested in 2012


Some military related pages are also saying same on facebook


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Abdul_Haseeb said:


> means you have seen ak 2 prototype


Maybe and i can tell u they r operational in Karachi atleast and Sindh Deserts.

@Dazzler can tell u better.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BATMAN

Donatello said:


> Al-Khalid is based on the MBT-2000.


 
What do you mean by '*based on *the MBT-2000' ?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Umair Nawaz said:


> Maybe and i can tell u they r operational in Karachi atleast and Sindh Deserts.
> 
> @Dazzler can tell u better.



Dude your talking abt the AK-I... AK-II is not in service yet..


----------



## Tacticool

Umair Nawaz said:


> Maybe and i can tell u they r operational in Karachi atleast and Sindh Deserts.
> 
> @Dazzler can tell u better.


What is it doing in karachi? killing layari gangs?


----------



## Tacticool

Umair Nawaz said:


> Maybe and i can tell u they r operational in Karachi atleast and Sindh Deserts.
> 
> @Dazzler can tell u better.


Now waiting for @Dazzler reply


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Abdul_Haseeb said:


> Now waiting for @Dazzler reply



AK-I is an upgrade done to the basic AK.. and in service since a few years.. dnt know much abt its deployment though.. AK-II is still in the works..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tacticool

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> AK-I is an upgrade done to the basic AK.. and in service since a few years.. dnt know much abt its deployment though.. AK-II is still in the works..


I know about ak1. read a lot about it. want to know that ak2 program is progressing with achieving milestones.


----------



## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dude your talking abt the AK-I... AK-II is not in service yet..





DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dude your talking abt the AK-I... AK-II is not in service yet..


Sir @Umair Nawaz is saying that all Khalid II is being tested in sindh


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Abdul_Haseeb said:


> What is it doing in karachi? killing layari gangs?


a couple of tanks with all new western design named AK2 in its side plates were spotted in a Military base in Karachi some 3-4 months ago. And i can assure u as they seemed they were deployed in the base.


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dude your talking abt the AK-I... AK-II is not in service yet..


----------



## Zarvan

Umair Nawaz said:


> a tank with all new western design named AK2 in its side plates was spotted in a Military base in Karachi some 3-4 months ago.


That is good new How it looked I mean close any other modern Tank


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Donatello said:


> Al-Khalid is based on the MBT-2000.



Actually Typre 90MII's export name is MBT 2000. AK basic is further modification of MBT2000 they both look same but in capabilities and specs AK basic is superior as it has variety of western,chinese and Pakistan's tech involved in it. AK1 and AK2 r both further development of basic AK unit and r all most indigenous.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Zarvan said:


> That is good new How it looked I mean close any other modern Tank


I think bro they were those prototypes that the members were earlier talking about as Karachi is the main center and tanks from taxila will be first transported to there then to Sindh deserts where CSD attacks will take place....... But i was talking to a Lt. Col.of an MIB and he indicated that a few of them in very limited numbers as of now r operational in Sindh.


----------



## Zarvan

Umair Nawaz said:


> I think bro they were those prototypes that the members were earlier talking about as Karachi is the main center and tanks from taxila will be first transported to there then to Sindh deserts where CSD attacks will take place....... But i was talking to a Lt. Col.of an MIB and he indicated that a few of them in very limited numbers as of now r operational in Sindh.


So it means they may have started the trials that is good news and hope they reveal it soon and tests are successful


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Zarvan said:


> That is good new How it looked I mean close any other modern Tank


Have u seem Turkey's Altay and Ukrain's T-84?
I can say Ak2 design seemed mixture of these two Tank designs.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Zarvan said:


> So it means they may have started the trials that is good news and hope they reveal it soon and tests are successful


According that Lt Col they r operational so if we take that then defiantly the trials were a success. And Bro after Kamra and Mehran attack our military will not reveal nor tell in Public abt any new assets we get or produce. As the terrorists used this very PDf for info/abt Mehran base and PC-3 orion's locations.


----------



## Zarvan

Umair Nawaz said:


> Have u seem Turkey's Altay and Ukrain's T-84?
> I can say Ak2 design seemed mixture of these two Tank designs.


Yes I have seen those tanks Altay is quite close to German Leopard Tank

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rain

Umair Nawaz said:


> According that Lt Col they r operational so if we take that then defiantly the trials were a success. And Bro after Kamra and Mehran attack our military will not reveal nor tell in Public abt any new assets we get or produce. As the terrorists used this very PDf for info/abt Mehran base and PC-3 orion's locations.


 This is Lame excuse. Pathetic

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Few things, i live in karachi and go through karsaz, malir cantt region ofen but have not seen anything yet? I cant say AK-2 is in service or not, maybe Umair has seen something so his emphasis cant be denied, though there,s still confusion among many who mention AK-1 as AK-2.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Dazzler said:


> Few things, i live in karachi and go through karsaz, malir cantt region ofen but have not seen anything yet? I cant say AK-2 is in service or not, maybe Umair has seen something so his emphasis cant be denied, though there,s still confusion among many who mention AK-1 as AK-2.


the one who is on Shahra e Faisal........ But i think they were those prototypes.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Rain said:


> This is Lame excuse. Pathetic


what 'pathetic excuse'?


----------



## Keshav Murali

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So please enlighten us abt the chinese systems used in AK?



I meant that the tank was *originally *based on the Type-90 and that Chinese engineers *worked *on it initially.

I have never claimed that the current Al-Khalid has Chinese sub-systems or design.


----------



## RAMPAGE

Umair Nawaz said:


> *As the terrorists used this very PDf for info/abt Mehran base and PC-3 orion's locations.*


What the hell are you talking about ???

Who told you ???


----------



## Basel

I don't know about PA having AK-2s or not but I have discussed same concerns which are discussed on PDF many times with an active duty officer who have commanded tank squadron too, and he said we have same modern tech as any other country in the world, further I asked that IA is getting T90s and other stuff like AH-64s, in response he said that all have been taken care off and we can kick Indian ***, that is why they don't attack.

Maybe there are systems which PA never want to publicize but they have them like A-100s, they were only displayed when PA thinks it was right time to display them publicly.

His worry was internal disintegration of the country not India bcoz he said we can handle them if we are strong from within and he was quite right.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kompromat

Desperately waiting for this hairy beast. 

@Dazzler @farhan_9909

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Aeronaut said:


> Desperately waiting for this hairy beast.
> 
> @Dazzler @farhan_9909



no clue on AK-2, all i know that there were one or two prototypes developed at HIT couple of years ago, what is their current status? no idea.

there are many weapon systems in army arsenal that we have no idea about, and i mean MANY !!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Kompromat

Dazzler said:


> no clue on AK-2, all i know that there were one or two prototypes developed at HIT couple of years ago, what is their current status? no idea.
> 
> there are many weapon systems in army arsenal that we have no idea about, and i mean MANY !!



It was recently reported in the news that the AK-2 is nearing completion.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Dazzler said:


> no clue on AK-2, all i know that there were one or two prototypes developed at HIT couple of years ago, what is their current status? no idea.
> *
> there are many weapon systems in army arsenal that we have no idea about, and i mean MANY !!*



As in active service or under development?



Aeronaut said:


> It was recently reported in the news that the AK-2 is nearing completion.



Tht article didnt make any sense..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Inception-06

The Pakistanis realized that in a defence Situation and if our Tank commanders know the indian tank direction of impact/attack, they can prepare a good defence with "duging in" the own Tanks.....which can safe their Tanks, can suprise the enemy and hold the ground against a bigger enemy.







That is the reason why all Pakistani Alkhalid Tanks have the item/ front shield to prepare their dug in Position with their front outrigger.








can everyone see the front shield or the front outrigger in this picture ?

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Inception-06

What do you think guys and girls the Alzarrar,Type-85IIMP also have this Item for "dug in" ?

What are your thoughts about this "dig in" concept/tactic ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Alpha1

Ulla said:


> What do you think guys and girls the Alzarrar,Type-85IIMP also have this Item for "dug in" ?
> 
> What are your thoughts about this "dig in" concept/tactic ?


the concept is fine IMO 
decreases the need for a dedicated support vehicle and save precious time and i don't think Al Zarrar has this ability

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Inception-06

Alpha1 said:


> the concept is fine IMO
> decreases the need for a dedicated support vehicle and save precious time and i don't think Al Zarrar has this ability





Ulla said:


> The sense of the turret-side skirts was:
> 
> "Rubber skirts hangs from the turret front which is believed to reduce the signature of the T-80U and deflect top attack bomblets."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Army Guide - T-80, Main battle tank
> 
> 
> It is sad that the Alkhalid Tank, Alzarrar Tanks and the Type-85IIMP have not this turret skirts.





The T-80UD has it !

Would this Skirts make any sense for our Alkhalid Tank, Alzarrar and the Type-85IIMP Tanks ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Alpha1

Ulla said:


> The T-80UD has it !


yes the dozer and also KMT-6 plough-type and KMT-7 roller-type mine-clearing systems

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Slav Defence

Explosive reactive armour which is the most common type we are using.
As far as what I have learnt till now that Reactive armour also has following variations:
-Self limiting explosive reactive armour(SLERA)
-Non energetic reactive armour(NERA)
-Non-Explosive reactive armour(NxRA)
Unlike ERA and SLERA, NERA and NxRA can withstand multiple hits!?
I guess,that we need to work upon that!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dazzler

Slav Defence said:


> Explosive reactive armour which is the most common type we are using.
> As far as what I have learnt till now that Reactive armour also has following variations:
> -Self limiting explosive reactive armour(SLERA)
> -Non energetic reactive armour(NERA)
> -Non-Explosive reactive armour(NxRA)
> Unlike ERA and SLERA, NERA and NxRA can withstand multiple hits!?
> I guess,that we need to work upon that!



NXRA and NERA offer repeated but less protection as they are not consumed on impact, ERA and SLERA offer more protection but consumed after one or sometimes, several hits. However, AK composite armour is known to have atleast two layers of NERA (rubber or some other composite) material.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Slav Defence

Dazzler said:


> NXRA and NERA offer repeated but less protection as they are not consumed on impact, ERA and SLERA offer more protection but consumed after one or sometimes, several hits. However, AK composite armour is known to have atleast two layers of NERA (rubber or some other composite) material.



NERA and NXRA are completely safe to handle,since their inner layers are not explosive itself and they are lighter,also they cannot be defeated by 'Tandem warhead' shaped charges.
Where as ERA are comparatively are dangerous to handle and that is why a sort of distance is maintained.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

Slav Defence said:


> NERA and NXRA are completely safe to handle,since their inner layers are not explosive itself and they are lighter,also they cannot be defeated by 'Tandem warhead' shaped charges.
> Where as ERA are comparatively are dangerous to handle and that is why a sort of distance is maintained.




NERA and NXRA are part of composite structure and are stored inside the turret cavity, ERA/SLERA are for external protection. Both have different roles.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Welcome back paa g

@Dazzler



Dazzler said:


> no clue on AK-2, all i know that there were one or two prototypes developed at HIT couple of years ago, what is their current status? no idea.
> 
> there are many weapon systems in army arsenal that we have no idea about, and i mean MANY !!


As far as i know they were tested in sindh on peak of summer season 2013.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Dazzler

Umair Nawaz said:


> Welcome back paa g
> 
> @Dazzler
> 
> 
> As far as i know they were tested in sindh on peak of summer season 2013.




excellent development if true

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Erwinpak43

it seems that all of u underestimate the 125APFSDs we have sold to u pk many years ago,frankly the first time i saw this picture was 2005.
meanwhile the T90S india owned was equal to obj 187,which can not even defense 3bm42 without era.My friends,u should not compare t90S to T90AorAM,as it was thought to be the expand type of OBJ 188. sorry iam still improving my english





actually there is no gap for PRC to sell u those APFSDS of 230mm/68.5deg.from where i stand ,i suppose the new 99a —the bran-new type that 38th army got several months ago—will be sent to equip ur army in front in emergency

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Bilal.

@Erwinpak43, you English is fine my friend

Look forward to more contribution from you...


----------



## Erwinpak43

@Bilal. 
i do appreciate ur encourage of my eng . basically i can not express myself correctly in terms of military tech since i hardly use those complex n professional noun and phrases in daily eng learning.
what's more my french is far worse than my eng...........






I guess those pics would not fail to fascinated u

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dazzler

Erwinpak43 said:


> View attachment 12074
> it seems that all of u underestimate the 125APFSDs we have sold to u pk many years ago,frankly the first time i saw this picture was 2005.
> meanwhile the T90S india owned was equal to obj 187,which can not even defense 3bm42 without era.My friends,u should not compare t90S to T90AorAM,as it was thought to be the expand type of OBJ 188. sorry iam still improving my english
> 
> View attachment 12075
> 
> actually there is no gap for PRC to sell u those APFSDS of 230mm/68.5deg.from where i stand ,i suppose the new 99a —the bran-new type that 38th army got several months ago—will be sent to equip ur army in front in emergency




info already present in AK info pool thread

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Horus said:


> Al-Khalid Tank




Great upgrade


----------



## WaLeEdK2

^^ This is AK1 right?


----------



## Dazzler

WaLeEdK2 said:


> ^^ This is AK1 right?



yep, its alkhalid, not alkhalid 2


----------



## fatman17

AK-2 or dare i say AK-3


----------



## Zeenar

Do you guys have pictures of AK-II ?



fatman17 said:


> View attachment 138019
> AK-2 or dare i say AK-3


That's a concept of the Type 99G or the Type 99A2 bro.


----------



## Bilal.

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 138019
> AK-2 or dare i say AK-3




Did not get you. What do you mean by AK-3?


----------



## Irfan Baloch

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 138019
> AK-2 or dare i say AK-3


none sir
looks like a Chinese photoshop of some Western rip off design.


----------



## Bilal.

Irfan Baloch said:


> none sir
> looks like a Chinese photoshop of some Western rip off design.



That's a pic of Chinese ztz-99a2


----------



## syedali73

Irfan Baloch said:


> none sir
> looks like a Chinese photoshop of some* Western rip off design*.


Bhai, why you think so low of Chinese? If today we take out Chinese-made stuff from our armed forces, I am not sure what we'll be left with to defend our home.


----------



## Irfan Baloch

syedali73 said:


> Bhai, why you think so low of Chinese? If today we take out Chinese-made stuff from our armed forces, I am not sure what we'll be left with to defend our home.


its no high or low. to their credit, their things do move and tentatively operate close to their originals. I just state the obvious. all Chinese designs are rooted from Russian or Western designs.
think of some Chinese products and you will struggle to come up with any original design except FC-1 (our JF-17). some are so blatant that they can break down even a stone cold killer .J11 being one such example @MastanKhan might refer to Lavi when talking J-10 or super ten and their stealth aircraft abominations? I better not say anything which might lead to the breakdown of our relations with our sugar daddy.

dont get me wrong. we make do with what we got, but over glorifying it wont help in practice.



Bilal. said:


> That's a pic of Chinese ztz-99a2


yea thats the one. not sure why we decided it was AK2

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fatman17

Bilal. said:


> Did not get you. What do you mean by AK-3?


 
heh, heh,


----------



## krash

fatman17 said:


> heh, heh,



Woah....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ali Raza Butt571

Quaid Says

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gangsta_rap

Irfan Baloch said:


> relations with our sugar daddy.



Really? Is that how you see it?


----------



## asq

Every body is talking about Engine Horse power but did not talk about transmission. it looks from what i read it has a six speed transmission, and that transmission as i see it should be changed to eight speed transmission giving this tank faster and smoothewr run and will save 20% of the fuel.


----------



## Mughal-Prince

asq said:


> Every body is talking about Engine Horse power but did not talk about transmission. it looks from what i read it has a six speed transmission, and that transmission as i see it should be changed to eight speed transmission giving this tank faster and smoothewr run and will save 20% of the fuel.



@fatman what do you say sir ?


----------



## asq

A transmission is a system of gears that controls the speed of any moving vehicle, some time a go, car manufacturer thought to save gas they should go with Hybrid systems meaning car switching between gas engine and batteries but than experience taught them that this kind is prone to more failure as it depends on a switching device that can fail so they came up with a system of transmissions that will have 8 shifts automatically keeping engine revolutions on a highway driving between 1200 to 1400 RP Ms previously engine.

Previously same horse power engine used or in old cars still runs at 3000 to 3200 RPMs running 1000 RPM extra as compare to these new transmissions. of coarse the speed of the car is same as in previous or new transmissions.

Due to low low RPM on high speeds noise reduction will be tremendous and it is important in a war zone to control noise of a machine such as a tank as much as possible.


----------



## Tipu7

I am kind of confused.
are AlKhalid and AlKhalid1 are same thing?
where is AlKhalid2?? it must have shown up
and the numbers of AlKhalids we have................320 I guess?? or we have developed more?


----------



## Wolfhound

Tipu7 said:


> I am kind of confused.
> are AlKhalid and AlKhalid1 are same thing?
> where is AlKhalid2?? it must have shown up
> and the numbers of AlKhalids we have................320 I guess?? or we have developed more?


Yes al khalid and al khalid 1 are the same thing

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Inception-06

Ulla said:


> All Pakistani Tanks dont have the "The forward skirt element" like The T-80 UD has it, what is the sense of this "forward skin" to reduce the sandy-dust during driving ? When Yes why Pakistani Tanks dont have it, specially the Alkhaklid Tank which was made for"desert conditions" ^^


A selam @Dazzler

I was talking about that here:






All Pakistani Tanks dont have the "The forward skirt element" like The T-80 UD has it, what is the sense of this "forward skin" to reduce the sandy-dust during driving ? If Yes, why Pakistani Tanks dont have it, specially the Alkhaklid Tank which was made for"desert conditions"



what I have read:" The forward skirt elements are armored and a radiation absorption liner coats the armor inside and outside."

Main Battle Tanks


secondly, what do think about the roof skirt, would it make any sense for our Tank-Designes ?








What I have read about this:"The turret roof between the commander's and gunner's hatches has been provided with additional protection against top attack weapons and a collar of rubber skirts hangs from the turret front. "


The sense of the turret-side skirts was:

"Rubber skirts hangs from the turret front which is believed to reduce the signature of the T-80U and deflect top attack bomblets."


by the check this Al-Khalid

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## syedali73

Ulla said:


> A selam @Dazzler
> 
> I was talking about that here:
> 
> 
> View attachment 207254
> 
> 
> by the check this Al-Khalid
> View attachment 207255


The purpose of these rubber skirts (hanging in front of the hull) is to keep the dust down, which would effectively reduce the Tank signature. I think any tank can be equipped with these depending on the battlefield scenario.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

Wolfhound said:


> Yes al khalid and al khalid 1 are the same thing



Not exactly the same, have improvements in FCS, armour, new BMS, thermal imager, faster acceleration and digitally controlled ammo carousel for autoloader.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zarvan

Dazzler said:


> Not exactly the same, have improvements in FCS, armour, new BMS, thermal imager, faster acceleration and digitally controlled ammo carousel for autoloader.


According to some pages on facebook which are quite authentic AK 1 would have 1400 HP engine ?????

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## M.AsfandYar

Zarvan said:


> According to some pages on facebook which are quite authentic AK 1 would have 1400 HP engine ?????


Facebook pages and authentic?


----------



## Zarvan

Assailiant said:


> Facebook pages and authentic?


Yes because some pages are being run by professionals

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Stealth

*Click on the picture and see 1920X1200 Full HD picture *

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Sage

Hot Shot

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RAMPAGE

Dazzler said:


> Not exactly the same, have improvements in FCS, armour, new BMS, thermal imager, faster acceleration and digitally controlled ammo carousel for autoloader.


New turret?


----------



## Dazzler

RAMPAGE said:


> New turret?



Not exactly but improved composite armour covering

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## RAMPAGE

Dazzler said:


> Not exactly but improved composite armour covering


So HIT can develop composite armour, reactive armour but it can not produce B7 level aluminum armour plates?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

RAMPAGE said:


> So HIT can develop composite armour, reactive armour but it can not produce B7 level aluminum armour plates?



Where on earth you brought that from? Don't buy too much in those idiotic discussions. The fact is sindh police asked b6 protection so they got these. Regarding b7 level, there is only that much armour layers you can add to a mohafiz or defender type platform. What HIT has now done in acquiring JV Textron TAPV is another class, a complete b7 level platform from scratch, not just an addon package. 

On a sidenote, it will have the new b7 level protection developed in house by AARDIC.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## RAMPAGE

Dazzler said:


> Where on earth you brought that from?


LOL agreement wiyh Nurol.


----------



## Dazzler

RAMPAGE said:


> LOL agreement wiyh Nurol.



Check the edited post first.

Regarding Nurol, its aimed at operational requirements mate, every such project has a deep feasibility and requirement package so don't look at it from the surface.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RAMPAGE

Dazzler said:


> Where on earth you brought that from? Don't buy too much in those idiotic discussions. The fact is sindh police asked b6 protection so they got these. Regarding b7 level, there is only that much armour layers you can add to a mohafiz or defender type platform. What HIT has now done in acquiring JV Textron TAPV is another class, a complete b7 level platform from scratch, not just an addon package.
> 
> On a sidenote, it will have the new b7 level protection developed in house by AARDIC.


Thanks for the info. BTW what are we going to do with those additional Italian and American M113s? would it be wise to revive the PIFV program?

And also, when can we expect AK2?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

RAMPAGE said:


> Thanks for the info. BTW what are we going to do with those additional Italian and American M113s? would it be wise to revive the PIFV program?
> 
> Thanks for the info. BTW what are we going to do with those additional Italian and American M113s? would it be wise to revive the PIFV program?
> 
> And also, when can we expect AK2?



I think we will see M113 ripoffs for quite a while now. Not that its a bad platform, its worthy and relevant to our battlefield to be honest. Not to mention, the Textron engine performs pretty decently on desert terrain. Tue armour has been updated from time to time so does other equipment so where is the problem.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tipu7

My friends visited HMC 2 years ago. They saw mass manufacturing of Tank Main Guns and Tank belts. 
I just wonder how many Al Khalid and Al Zarrar we have?
also when Al Khalid II will be out? any idea people?


----------



## Super Falcon

The only problem was with Al Khalid tank was it cannot dive into deep waters army wanted to clear that hurdle in new AK 2 I heard it from one inside soldier in army tank one reaso because pakistan army want to use it for multiple uses Pakistani marines lack heavy punch of tank which us marines has this might be one reason and other is Pakistan is rich with rivers which are very heavy and deep this is also a reason

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indus Falcon

Super Falcon said:


> The only problem was with Al Khalid tank was it cannot dive into deep waters army wanted to clear that hurdle in new AK 2 I heard it from one inside soldier in army tank one reaso because pakistan army want to use it for multiple uses Pakistani marines lack heavy punch of tank which us marines has this might be one reason and other is Pakistan is rich with rivers which are very heavy and deep this is also a reason


I remember seeing AL Khalid with a snorkel. Can someone confirm / deny what he is saying?

@fatman17

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Inception-06

Indus Falcon said:


> I remember seeing AL Khalid with a snorkel. Can someone confirm / deny what he is saying?
> 
> @fatman17



depends what are " deep waters" ? Like a submarine ?


I think the river/water crossing capabilities of the Type 90 II and our Al-Khalid should be the same if not better:

Type 90 II in "deep waters" ^^

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indus Falcon

Ulla said:


> depends what are " deep waters" ? Like a submarine ?
> 
> 
> I think the river/water crossing capabilities of the Type 90 II tand our Al-Khalid should be the same if not better:
> 
> Type 90 II in "deep waters" ^^
> View attachment 215950


NO not like a sub,  Good one

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Inception-06

Indus Falcon said:


> NO not like a sub,  Good one




here is the AlKhalid with snorkel, Al-Zarrar did get a little upgrade -new cage armour around the turret :

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Reddawn

Why do HIT keep on advertising the Al Hamza IFV when it never went past prototype phase? Led lights is a bit random as well!


----------



## kaonalpha

Saw a new pic of al khalid 1 does it have a remote control machine gun on top on defence. Pk Facebook page


----------



## black-hawk_101

How many AL-KHALIDs have been produced yet. My thinking is that about 800 of them for PAK ARM Y.


----------



## Tipu7

kaonalpha said:


> Saw a new pic of al khalid 1 does it have a remote control machine gun on top on defence. Pk Facebook page


Pic plz


----------



## Tipu7

black-hawk_101 said:


> How many AL-KHALIDs have been produced yet. My thinking is that about 800 of them for PAK ARM Y.


I am searching for this answer too. As per Wikipedia we got 320 at least. But exact and correct figures ?..........May be any senior member will like to help

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## black-hawk_101

I think KSA has bought some from Pakistan or China but surely now and forever KSA and other Middle Eastern country will never ever buy Pakistani made equipments. 

Middle East, will be spending on buying weapons from USA, EU, Russia and some China too.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Tipu7 said:


> I am searching for this answer too. As per Wikipedia we got 320 at least. But exact and correct figures ?..........May be any senior member will like to help


450 produced 50 more on order that's 500 by the end of 2015.



Ulla said:


> depends what are " deep waters" ? Like a submarine ?
> 
> 
> I think the river/water crossing capabilities of the Type 90 II and our Al-Khalid should be the same if not better:
> 
> Type 90 II in "deep waters" ^^
> View attachment 215950



Type 90II is an older tank .. We actually built modified-upgraded variants of it by the name of Type-90IIAP o something like that .. As for AK .. It's much more capable than it or our UD's for thT matter.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tipu7

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> 450 produced 50 more on order that's 500 by the end of 2015.


Sir any info about our production line? how many Al Khalids we can produce per year? also how much we intend to induct?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Tipu7 said:


> Sir any info about our production line? how many Al Khalids we can produce per year? also how much we intend to induct?



Currently we are producing 50 per year but the capacity to produce 100 per year was planned back in 2010-11 .. (I guess we are building 50 coz of financial restraints)... 

Im not sure about the total requirement of the AKs but my guess would be 600.. 

Till than we will have AK-II.. Which will replace the older Type series in service.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Veroman

Ulla said:


> here is the AlKhalid with snorkel, Al-Zarrar did get a little upgrade -new cage armour around the turret :
> 
> View attachment 216197


what do you mean by snorkel that tank chimney


----------



## Signalian

47 tonnes for MBT is less. The fascination for lighter tanks should end

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## WaLeEdK2

Sarge said:


> 47 tonnes for MBT is less. The fascination for lighter tanks should end


Yes I agree. If you look at the western tanks like the Abrams, Leopards and even the Merkavas, they're all over 60 tonnes.


----------



## Signalian

its the increase in armour that adds to bulk of the weight.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

WaLeEdK2 said:


> Yes I agree. If you look at the western tanks like the Abrams, Leopards and even the Merkavas, they're all over 60 tonnes.


Yr Abraham is junk. It failed miserably in Pakistan in late 80s.

This Pakistan which holds the extremes of geography and temperatures not any xyz thing can work here.....46 tons is medium weight tank and its the most suitable for our needs, geography and temperature. This tank has they key things like agility and power to weight ratio which is 26. This means it has got superior mobility.

A tank is judged on 3 aspects

1) Firepower
2) Mobility
3) Safety.

The thing in which AK lacked a little was in safety which has already been addressed in AK-1 version. Now its weight is 47-48 or 49 tons. Pakistan had tested a new Armour which had known to beat all known 120-125mm rounds but is lighter in weight. Its made of Boron Carbide.

For more details visit these threads.

PA TANKS comparison with contempory tanks

Al-Khalid tank (Type 90-IIM / MBT-2000) Information Pool

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

^^

Abrams was not selected on firing accuracy issues, T-59 was found to have better accuracy. weight was not a factor.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Sarge said:


> ^^
> 
> Abrams was not selected on firing accuracy issues, T-59 was found to have better accuracy. weight was not a factor.


Thats not the only reason. Like i said 3 main points are there when a tank is judged upon. Its fire report was proved to be inferior then basic T-59 tanks as u may have seen that in WSJ's We are Soldiers. But it wasnt the only reason.

Its mammoth weight is its main weakness, its again proved against Daesh in Iraq. Visit the first link's second page u will know exactly what blunders it did in Bhawalpur. It has a crappy mobility.


----------



## Signalian

^^
If weight was an issue then Leclerc in UAE, Merkava in isarel, M1 in KSA and Egypt would not make sense. USA wouldnt be fielding M1 in gulf wars.

visit the series "we were soldiers" in armour episode and you would know why M1 wasnt chosen.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Sarge said:


> ^^
> If weight was an issue then Leclerc in UAE, Merkava in isarel, M1 in KSA and Egypt would not make sense. USA wouldnt be fielding M1 in gulf wars.
> 
> visit the series "we were soldiers" in armour episode and you would know why M1 wasnt chosen.


I have seen we are soldiers and i can see why u said it in first place because i had guessed that u may have watched it. 

It was one of the reasons yes but not THE only reason. And Plz dont compare us and those crappy arab armies. They survive on American influence so for them keeping American happy is more important. U have talked abt Merkava but Why hasnt even Israelis brought this Abraham series rather go for their own tank in the first place?

This tank is just not good enough for professional armies. The idea behind this tank as well as Leo, Leclerc etc etc is to take on the Soviat or ex soviat and Russian tanks in hard and cold land of Europe. Do u even know that Abraham's engine also at one point sucked so much dust of desert that it practically got completely immobile? @Dazzler 
Dazzler is our forum expert in Tanks and APCs, who has either worked or works with HMC Taxila, he can give u more details and im asking again to vision those links specially the first one to know abt more details.

Americans in all of the history of Abramas had been pressurizing us to induct the Abrahams their latest offer dates as early as 2007.

AK while in otherhand is idea for our needs infrastructure as well as a machine of which we in full control of. We can make those thing, update those things even export those things at will! U can only dream of that with any western product.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

^^

Your statements are based on general views of what you think about western armies and their tanks. I was hoping for some solid points to move ahead.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Sarge said:


> ^^
> 
> Your statements are based on general views of what you think about western armies and their tanks. I was hoping for some solid points to move ahead.


lol thats all u have come up with? or perhaps yr australian residence making u think that western weaponry is somewhat superior! since yr not physically connected to Pakistan and its terrains as well as climate.

The western weapons and the tech of 21 century or the weapons available since 80s are not quit good or very advance, simply because the other nations have now caught them in technology. Now their uniqueness is no more. That technology was the base of their claims of having superior weaponry.

Go get some knowledge then come.


----------



## Signalian

Umair Nawaz said:


> lol thats all u have come up with? or perhaps yr australian residence making u think that western weaponry is somewhat superior! since yr not physically connected to Pakistan and its terrains as well as climate.
> 
> The western weapons and the tech of 21 century or the weapons available since 80s are not quit good or very advance, simply because the other nations have now caught them in technology. Now their uniqueness is no more. That technology was the base of their claims of having superior weaponry.
> 
> Go get some knowledge then come.


personal assumptions are all what you came up with. I won't even bother replying to your senseless crappy assumptions but do Try not to make any personal attack or I will report you to admins.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Sarge said:


> personal assumptions are all what you came up with. I won't even bother replying to your senseless crappy assumptions but do Try not to make any personal attack or I will report you to admins.


lol those arent personal assumptions thats why i shared sources in which numerous senior members and TTs said the same. Its not me but u who is stuck with his impressions. Visit the sources to know.....


----------



## Zarvan

Umair Nawaz said:


> lol those arent personal assumptions thats why i shared sources in which numerous senior members and TTs said the same. Its not me but u who is stuck with his impressions. Visit the sources to know.....


Stop wasting time here try to find some one from HIT and get info on AK-2 and its current status

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Signalian

Umair Nawaz said:


> lol those arent personal assumptions thats why i shared sources in which numerous senior members and TTs said the same. Its not me but u who is stuck with his impressions. Visit the sources to know.....



Zarvan gave perfect reply to you above, go figure. I cant waste time with you any more, no solid points till now. adios.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Sarge said:


> Zarvan gave perfect reply to you above, go figure. I cant waste time with you any more, no solid points till now. adios.


lol u also have comprehension problems.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zarvan

A source is saying this upgraded Turkish Leopard Tank is quite similar to those prototypes going under trials in Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Sarge said:


> 47 tonnes for MBT is less. The fascination for lighter tanks should end


AK is 48 tons that's hardly a "light" tank... It's in medium category .. Google "light tanks".

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## WaLeEdK2

Zarvan said:


> View attachment 250612
> 
> View attachment 250613
> 
> View attachment 250614
> 
> A source is saying this upgraded Turkish Leopard Tank is quite similar to those prototypes going under trials in Pakistan.


Which tank prototype? AK2?


----------



## Signalian

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> AK is 48 tons that's hardly a "light" tank... It's in medium category .. Google "light tanks".


The bulk of the PA tank fleet is 36-40 tons. In today's armies most modern western tanks are roughly 55-70 tons. That gives an idea of light when in comparison and not just a class or category. Bigger engine, more armour for protection, more gadgets and sensors, more weapon storage not just makes a tank lethal but also heavier.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Sarge said:


> The bulk of the PA tank fleet is 36-40 tons. In today's armies most modern western tanks are roughly 55-70 tons. That gives an idea of light when in comparison and not just a class or category. Bigger engine, more armour for protection, more gadgets and sensors, more weapon storage not just makes a tank lethal but also heavier.



So you even know what a light tank is? Light tanks ; PL01,M551,PT etc !


Today AK (48 tons),T-80UD (47+ tons),AZ (42.7 tons) make the spear head of Pak armour ... With older tanks being replaced... With AKIII an another tank (OPLOT,MBT-3000 etc tank tests)...


None of these are "light tanks".. Also weight alone doesn't make a tank lethal otherwise indias arjun wouldn't have been a failure (replaced by T-90S)... Nor does weight automatically mean better weight to power ratio or more firepower!


Since this thread is about AK I-II... Let me educate you....

AK has a power to weight ratio of around 26+:1 ... That's more (for example) than merkava's ratio!

It is also the most heavily armed tank in the world ! Be it its RCS,bi-axil MGs, a 8-9 round per min - rate of fire! Or the ammo capacity of 34+10! And one in the "chamber"..

As for its protection ... Yes it uses more NERA,ERA,Kevlar and a badass armour apart from a nifty VARTA APS !

"Enlighten us about gadgets"!! Tell me about the hunter killer,data link,uav connectivity and an advanced IBMS etc etc !

Also a 55-70 ton tank is also useless in our terrain ... Just like an Abrams can't be used in Indonesia (that's why their fleet is composed of light tanks and a few second hand leos)... Or indias Arjun which can't even be transported on rail or its uselessness (apart from its flaws) in the terrain ...

Abrams also failed in Cholistan ... Apart from tht a "heavy tank" Is useless in our Desert (soil composition) ,it can't be transported on rail .. Nor can our bridges or infrastructure support a heavy tank.... Apart from the vast canal system in Pak that would hinder not enemy but our own tanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## black-hawk_101

Horus said:


> *Al Khalid MBT-II*
> 
> 
> 
> KARACHI - Pakistan's Al Khalid Tank is widely being considered one of the most competent Main Battle Tanks (MBTs) in the global arms market. *The Al Khalid II is said to have a new armor that has been tested to defeat all known 120mm and 125mm rounds. *
> 
> This special armour is a major technological breakthrough for Pakistan. The tank has received a new transmission and revised electronic turret control.*This was stated by Syed Muhammad Ali, the first certified military concept tank designer of Pakistan, while talking to The Nation. *He said that the *Al Khalid II has a new Integrated Battle Management System (IBMS) and active threat-protection system, the latter being an upgrade from the passive system in the earlier model. The tank is now perhaps one of the most heavily weaponized per tonnage of any tank, being able to carry 49 125mm rounds, 1,500 12.7mm and 7,100 7.62mm rounds.*
> 
> He said that Al-Khalid is modern battle tank developed by Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT).Al Khalid consists of all the modern technologies required by latest generation tanks. Alkhalid is fitted with Ukranian engine that generated 1200 horse power. It has six forward automatic transmission. Its top speed is 72km/h. It weighs 47 tonnes.Al-Khalid is operated by a three man crew; a driver, a gunner, and a commander.Al-khalid consist of a self loading 125m smooth bore gun. It can also fire HEAT and APFSDS (Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot) rounds. It automatically load, fire and eject the empty case.
> 
> Because of self loading gun, the crew number is reduced. The gun is equipped with a stabilizing system which provides accurate shot of the target even if the tank is moving. It also comes with an imaging system which enables the crew members to track down various targets and engage them. It is also equipped with a 7.62mm co-axial machine gun and a 12.5mm anti-aircraft gun mounted above it.In terms of sheer numbers, Forecast International expects Pakistan&#8217;s Al Khalid, the Type 98 of the People&#8217;s Republic of China, and the Russian Federation&#8217;s T-90 (including India&#8217;s licensed T-90S production program) to continue to dominate the market.
> 
> In the international market for main battle tanks, the days of U.S. and European domination over new production are long gone. Al Khalid is also equipped with night vision devices that enables it for combat at night time. It also has protection for NBC (Nuclear, Biological & chemical) warfare and thus the crew member would be safe incase of NBC fallout.Al-Khalid can also be fitted with Explosives Reactive Armor (ERA). Al-Khalid is currently in service with the Pakistan Army.
> 
> Regards:
> 
> High demand of 'Al-Khalid' tank in modern warfare


Any HD pictures of AK-IIs and AK-IIIs?


----------



## Maarkhoor

@Zarvan
Al Kahlid II MBT Prototype in HIT (2008)


----------



## Zarvan

Abu Namr said:


> @Zarvan
> Al Kahlid II MBT Prototype in HIT (2008)


This is not AL KHALID II Prototype that I am pretty sure about


----------



## Maarkhoor

Zarvan said:


> This is not AL KHALID II Prototype that I am pretty sure about


Then what is that is clearly in HIT


----------



## Zarvan

Abu Namr said:


> Then what is that is clearly in HIT


It is AK 1 Mr not AK 2


----------



## Maarkhoor

Zarvan said:


> It is AK 1 Mr not AK 2


Dear Zarvan bhai Ak-1 does't have these types of side skirts.



Abu Namr said:


> Dear Zarvan bhai Ak-1 does't have these types of side skirts.


Al Khalid 1 side view


----------



## Zarvan

Abu Namr said:


> Dear Zarvan bhai Ak-1 does't have these types of side skirts.
> 
> 
> Al Khalid 1 side view


AK 1 was improved more the version you are showing is even not full AK 1 Mr

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Maarkhoor

Zarvan said:


> AK 1 was improved more the version you are showing is even not full AK 1 Mr


Thank you for the info can you post full and final AK-1 picture for me


----------



## Zarvan

Abu Namr said:


> Thank you for the info can you post full and final AK-1 picture for me


The one you posted is AK 1 that in IDEX 2014 that was AK 1


----------



## Signalian

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So you even know what a light tank is? Light tanks ; PL01,M551,PT etc !


You should first read what i wrote and then reply, that way things will make sense but when u reply without reading, thats wasting my time. i have clearly told you about comparison and not class.




> Today AK (48 tons),T-80UD (47+ tons),AZ (42.7 tons) make the spear head of Pak armour ... With older tanks being replaced... With AKIII an another tank (OPLOT,MBT-3000 etc tank tests)...
> 
> 
> None of these are "light tanks".. Also weight alone doesn't make a tank lethal otherwise indias arjun wouldn't have been a failure (replaced by T-90S)... Nor does weight automatically mean better weight to power ratio or more firepower!


There again, replied without reading, i had no intention of proving that heavy means more firepower or W/P ratio in my posts. but i will explain more below about survival.




> Since this thread is about AK I-II... Let me educate you....


let me educate you too. lesson no. 1, education comes from first reading and then replying



> AK has a power to weight ratio of around 26+:1 ... That's more (for example) than merkava's ratio!
> 
> It is also the most heavily armed tank in the world ! Be it its RCS,bi-axil MGs, a 8-9 round per min - rate of fire! Or the ammo capacity of 34+10! And one in the "chamber"..
> 
> As for its protection ... Yes it uses more NERA,ERA,Kevlar and a badass armour apart from a nifty VARTA APS !
> 
> "Enlighten us about gadgets"!! Tell me about the hunter killer,data link,uav connectivity and an advanced IBMS etc etc !


sure i will enlighten you, no worries, but first you have to realize that my point is about weight and not how heavily the tank is armed. again, first read the post and then reply. But this does give me an idea that if anti-heli rounds are used in future but then again maybe AP or HE rounds are sacrificed in number to amke space for a few new type of rounds. Just speculating.

If u put something like a TUSK upgrade on a tank for urban combat use, its weight will increase. Armor upgrades include ERA on the sides of the tank and Slat armor etc. I know AK doesnt use TUSK, but with the tech changing as per battlefield requirements I have seen extra protection on PA Tanks, APC's etc in urban combat environment. Those might be quick improvisations but learning from these experiences, something viable and permamnent can be seen in future . For this reason, the newer versions of AK and new tanks acquired by PA will be heavier than 48 Ton. 


> Also a 55-70 ton tank is also useless in our terrain ... Just like an Abrams can't be used in Indonesia (that's why their fleet is composed of light tanks and a few second hand leos)... Or indias Arjun which can't even be transported on rail or its uselessness (apart from its flaws) in the terrain ...
> 
> Abrams also failed in Cholistan ... Apart from tht a "heavy tank" Is useless in our Desert (soil composition) ,it can't be transported on rail .. Nor can our bridges or infrastructure support a heavy tank.... Apart from the vast canal system in Pak that would hinder not enemy but our own tanks.



MBT 3000/ Al haider is 52 Tons and this weight will increase with battlefield requirements. so you see, 40 tones then 48 tons and climbing to 52 Tons, so 55 Tons is not far my friend.

Type 99 started from 52 tons and the newest version is around 54 Tons now. Must be more gagdets, armour etc

Other western tanks in 54 Ton class:
Leclerc is roughly 55-57 tons. used by UAE and french forces.
Italian Ariete is 54 Tons.
Newest is K2 BP South Korean tank 54 Tons.


----------



## kaonalpha

Key Board Warrior's and their dreams of seeing AK 2.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## alimobin memon

AK program is dead or something ? seeing so many articles of Pak army looking for T84's , Type 99 and etc etc ?


----------



## Zarvan

alimobin memon said:


> AK program is dead or something ? seeing so many articles of Pak army looking for T84's , Type 99 and etc etc ?


No it's running

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## alimobin memon

Zarvan said:


> No it's running


ok so its running great. Why are we looking for other tanks then ? isn't ak as good as t90 and other tanks ?


----------



## yugocrosrb95

alimobin memon said:


> ok so its running great. Why are we looking for other tanks then ? isn't ak as good as t90 and other tanks ?


I think probably because they can't be produced fast enough...

If Pakistani Military chooses Oplot M and Pakistani have enough cash they could aquire 160 of those next year and year after that 360+ in case pakistani buy up every unit that Ukranians produce.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## razgriz19

alimobin memon said:


> ok so its running great. Why are we looking for other tanks then ? isn't ak as good as t90 and other tanks ?



AK was developed in 90s. It's a two decade old program. And since it wasn't a ground breaking program so most of technology used to make the tank already existed at that time, which makes it even older. 
Anyway, the new tank PA is looking for is to replace older tanks, it would complement AK.


----------



## Zarvan

razgriz19 said:


> AK was developed in 90s. It's a two decade old program. And since it wasn't a ground breaking program so most of technology used to make the tank already existed at that time, which makes it even older.
> Anyway, the new tank PA is looking for is to replace older tanks, it would complement AK.


AK is better than T 90 and new versions of AK are under production and work on more is being completed. T-99 A2 is part of separate Tank project known as AL HAIDER. @yugocrosrb95 production rate is not the issue


----------



## RAMPAGE

kaonalpha said:


> Key Board Warrior's and their dreams of seeing AK 2.


Ajeeb banday ho aap. kabhi kehte ho AK2 program is running aur kabhi kuch aur.


----------



## Zarvan

RAMPAGE said:


> Ajeeb banday ho aap. kabhi kehte ho AK2 program is running aur kabhi kuch aur.


AL KHALID II was never stopped it's most probably in production and work on AK 3 has begun


----------



## Signalian

AK-II 125mm should have an anti-helicopter round probably a HEAT round equipped with a proximity fuse) with proper blast fragmentation.

M1A1 has a STAFF Round for this purpose.

STAFF is a 120mm tank round thatsearches out and destroys enemy armor at distances beyond the reach of conventional munitions. As a top-attack smart munition, STAFF destroys enemy armor by flying over it and firing a highly lethal explosively formed penetrator down into its lightly armored top. No enemy armor is safe from STAFF -- whether it's moving, at long range, or in defilade. Although STAFF is primarily designed as an anti-armor round, it complements the M830A1 tank round by being highly lethal against helicopters. STAFF is unique among antiarmor munitions because of its large sensor footprint and the standoff capability of its explosively formed penetrator warhead.


STAFF requires no change to the tank turret and no unique actions by the tank crew other than setting a single range zone switch. From aiming and firing to the last stages of its operation, STAFF functions much like a conventional round. During ballistic flight, STAFF establishes a vertical reference and orients itself with the ground. In the final seconds of flight, a search and track mode is initiated. The forward-scanning millimeter wave sensor establishes a large footprint for target acquisition. The round flies over the target, rolls to align the warhead, fuzes, and then fires its lethal penetrator down into the most vulnerable area of the tank.

Alliant Techsystems developed the STAFF round. Proof of principle was demonstrated in 1990.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Aamir Hussain

You will be surprised to know that M1's are being rebuilt at their Lima Plant to last another decade. In effect service of over 40 years!!!!

Check out this video Nat geo Ultimate Factories






Will be an eye opener. Will get to know what is a rebuilt

Part 2

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mrc

We need to put recently displayed ground surveillance radar on al khalid and integrate it with battle management system.....


----------



## Bratva

RAMPAGE said:


> Ajeeb banday ho aap. kabhi kehte ho AK2 program is running aur kabhi kuch aur.





Zarvan said:


> AL KHALID II was never stopped it's most probably in production and work on AK 3 has begun



The Chief of Army Staff (COAS) visited the Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) on Thursday to review the preparedness of the military’s armed warfare production line. HIT is considered the home of army’s armour production, especially tanks, armoured personnel carriers and other mechanised vehicles.

During his visit to the facility, Gen Raheel was briefed by HIT head Lt Gen Wajid Hussain on the products manufactured for defence and commercial purposes. He also told the army chief about the details of the factory’s various facilities, according to the ISPR.

*Wajid also briefed him about Pakistan’s main battle tank ‘Al-Khalid-I’ besides the manufacturing and rebuilding of armoured personnel carriers, security vehicles Dragon and Mohafiz.

The army chief also witnessed the assembly and demonstration of the Al-Khalid-I tank.*

Gen Raheel urges self reliance in defence needs - The Express Tribune



RIP to those who dreams about KHALID-II

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Super Falcon

Middle east should consider the tank from pakistn rather than US made Abram which destroyed by ISIS rookies by RPG


----------



## Zarvan

Bratva said:


> The Chief of Army Staff (COAS) visited the Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) on Thursday to review the preparedness of the military’s armed warfare production line. HIT is considered the home of army’s armour production, especially tanks, armoured personnel carriers and other mechanised vehicles.
> 
> During his visit to the facility, Gen Raheel was briefed by HIT head Lt Gen Wajid Hussain on the products manufactured for defence and commercial purposes. He also told the army chief about the details of the factory’s various facilities, according to the ISPR.
> 
> *Wajid also briefed him about Pakistan’s main battle tank ‘Al-Khalid-I’ besides the manufacturing and rebuilding of armoured personnel carriers, security vehicles Dragon and Mohafiz.
> 
> The army chief also witnessed the assembly and demonstration of the Al-Khalid-I tank.*
> 
> Gen Raheel urges self reliance in defence needs - The Express Tribune
> 
> 
> 
> RIP to those who dreams about KHALID-II


Mr AL KHALID II is under development and won't be revealed like this and even work on AK 3 has begun. Mr if you think on General Raheel visit they were going to reveal AK II than it's you who took it wrong even General Raheel knows what is going and what news will be given to media. AK-2 will come don't worry those who think their is no such project are real fools @Bratva

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Zarvan said:


> Mr AL KHALID II is under development and won't be revealed like this and even work on AK 3 has begun. Mr if you think on General Raheel visit they were going to reveal AK II than it's you who took it wrong even General Raheel knows what is going and what news will be given to media. AK-2 will come don't worry those who think their is no such project are real fools @Bratva



no such thing as Ak-3 exists yet

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Maarkhoor

Dazzler said:


> no such thing as Ak-3 exists yet


i heard bro only two prototypes were build for Al Khalid II and since Ukraine hit crises Pakistan looking for reliable source for engines. is it true ?


----------



## Zarvan

Dazzler said:


> no such thing as Ak-3 exists yet


Sir this statement was given by current HIT head in Parliament



MaarKhoor said:


> i heard bro only two prototypes were build for Al Khalid II and since Ukraine hit crises Pakistan looking for reliable source for engines. is it true ?


I also have heard about two prototypes but yes we are looking for engine


----------



## Maarkhoor

Zarvan said:


> Sir this statement was given by current HIT head in Parliament
> 
> 
> I also have heard about two prototypes but yes we are looking for engine


Why we should not jointly develop engines with Turkey, since they are working on 1800HP electric engine will prove great update for Al Khalid. Electric power engines produces very less thermal signatures and will prove quite effective against thermal imaging and IR sensors.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zarvan

MaarKhoor said:


> Why we should not jointly develop engines with Turkey, since they are working on 1800HP electric engine will prove great update for Al Khalid. Electric power engines produces very less thermal signatures and will prove quite effective against thermal imaging and IR sensors.


I think we would in fact I am pretty sure that AK 3 would have 1800 HP engine right now Turkey isn't producing 1500 HP engine so our best source for 1500 HP can be either South Korea or Ukraine or China. I think we are going to buy 1500 HP engine from South Korea


----------



## Maarkhoor

Zarvan said:


> I think we would in fact I am pretty sure that AK 3 would have 1800 HP engine right now Turkey isn't producing 1500 HP engine so our best source for 1500 HP can be either South Korea or Ukraine or China. I think we are going to buy 1500 HP engine from South Korea


yes Turkey is not producing 1500HP but i am talking about their project to develop electric 1800HP for Altay.


----------



## Zarvan

MaarKhoor said:


> yes Turkey is not producing 1500HP but i am talking about their project to develop electric 1800HP for Altay.


Yes we should definitely join that and also bring Ukraine as part of the project also. Ukraine would make sure that task is completed really soon


----------



## Maarkhoor

Zarvan said:


> Yes we should definitely join that and also bring Ukraine as part of the project also. Ukraine would make sure that task is completed really soon


But bringing Ukraine would be risky since they are in a big mess once Russia finished Syrian campaign defiantly they go for Ukraine.


----------



## Cool_Soldier

We have been waiting since long for AK 2.Lets what will come out.I hope something special and positive will come in.


----------



## Zarvan

MaarKhoor said:


> But bringing Ukraine would be risky since they are in a big mess once Russia finished Syrian campaign defiantly they go for Ukraine.


Russia won't risk going more into Ukraine. Ukraine issue is done now and bringing in Ukraine would only benefit us and not harm anything.


----------



## Dazzler

Zarvan said:


> Sir this statement was given by current HIT head in Parliament
> 
> 
> I also have heard about two prototypes but yes we are looking for engine



its the same confusion we had with AK 1, so AK 3 is actually AK 2.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zarvan

Dazzler said:


> its the same confusion we had with AK 1, so AK 3 is actually AK 2.


Sir I am not expecting any confused statement by rank of Lt General and that too when he is briefing Parliament members.


----------



## Cool_Soldier

Yes, AK and AK1 is the same version.First Ak came and later on all AK were upgraded to AK1 level.
May Two prototype of AK2/3 are in progress and will eventually be the same version.


----------



## Dazzler

Zarvan said:


> Sir I am not expecting any confused statement by rank of Lt General and that too when he is briefing Parliament members.



he was just goofing around with those idiots.


----------



## Inception-06

@Dazzler @Sarge @fatman17

Check this, might be interesting, because the official source is naming ALKHALID 2

It has two variants (Al Khalid I & II).

Al-Khalid-II is equipped with an Active Protection System (APS).







*Written By: Maj Sana Nasri*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zarvan

Ulla said:


> @Dazzler @Sarge @fatman17
> 
> Check this, might be interesting, because the official source is naming ALKHALID 2
> 
> It has two variants (Al Khalid I & II).
> 
> Al-Khalid-II is equipped with an Active Protection System (APS).
> 
> View attachment 338101


The picture is of at least is AL KHALID 1 and as for AL KHALID II. My source tells me it's Turkey mainly behind AL KHALID II not China.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Inception-06

Zarvan said:


> The picture is of at least is AL KHALID 1 and as for AL KHALID II. My source tells me it's Turkey mainly behind AL KHALID II not China.



_ I know VERY WELL that the picture is a AL-Khalid 1, because last year I was one of those Members who did first post the picture from Al-Khalid 1, but did you read who has written the article and what she says about the Alkhalid 2 ! ?

She is a Major in Pakistan Army, I dont think she is stupid to not know the types of our Tank inventory !_


----------



## DavidSling

Which active protection system does it possess?


----------



## Danish saleem

but we develop it in late 90"s, now almost after 20 years, what r our next planes, Al khalid II?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Saleem

do they even assemble the engine? is not then it is a tin can---in case of sanctions all manufacture will end.....as no engine- no move----


----------



## Signalian

Ulla said:


> @Dazzler @Sarge @fatman17
> 
> Check this, might be interesting, because the official source is naming ALKHALID 2
> 
> It has two variants (Al Khalid I & II).
> 
> Al-Khalid-II is equipped with an Active Protection System (APS).
> 
> View attachment 338101
> 
> 
> *Written By: Maj Sana Nasri*



Maj Sana Ansari is from EME aviation Corps. I have seen her other articles in Hilal magazine. There could be an APS planned for AK-II. she should have mentioned what type atleast.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

DavidSling said:


> Which active protection system does it possess?



Upgraded Varta I APS;








Ulla said:


> _ I know VERY WELL that the picture is a AL-Khalid 1, because last year I was one of those Members who did first post the picture from Al-Khalid 1, but did you read who has written the article and what she says about the Alkhalid 2 ! ?
> 
> She is a Major in Pakistan Army, I dont think she is stupid to not know the types of our Tank inventory !_



And she faced a lot of heat coz of her love for photography ... Heard she and her husband (also an officer got reprimanded)..


As for AK & AKI the specs are available for both in the HIT website...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DavidSling

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Upgraded Varta I APS;
> View attachment 338229
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And she faced a lot of heat coz of her love for photography ... Heard she and her husband (also an officer got reprimanded)..
> 
> 
> As for AK & AKI the specs are available for both in the HIT website...


can u please provide more information about the APS, photos, media and more


----------



## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Upgraded Varta I APS;
> View attachment 338229
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And she faced a lot of heat coz of her love for photography ... Heard she and her husband (also an officer got reprimanded)..
> 
> 
> As for AK & AKI the specs are available for both in the HIT website...


I am going to go crazy you keep showing it as upgraded model but others suggest this is not the upgraded model @Dazzler


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> I am going to go crazy you keep showing it as upgraded model but others suggest this is not the upgraded model @Dazzler



You are needlessly crying .. Till now there are 2 variants ..

AK= The basic one.

AK-I = Upgraded variant



http://www.hit.gov.pk/product.html


AK-II is still under development and they are closed lipped about it.



DavidSling said:


> can u please provide more information about the APS, photos, media and more











Basic AK variant with APS






Not much is available on it .. But it's a modification of the Ukranian Varta APS.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dazzler

Ulla said:


> @Dazzler @Sarge @fatman17
> 
> Check this, might be interesting, because the official source is naming ALKHALID 2
> 
> It has two variants (Al Khalid I & II).
> 
> Al-Khalid-II is equipped with an Active Protection System (APS).
> 
> View attachment 338101
> 
> 
> *Written By: Maj Sana Nasri*




Only the last two lines discuss AK-2, and none of it is new.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> You are needlessly crying .. Till now there are 2 variants ..
> 
> AK= The basic one.
> 
> AK-I = Upgraded variant
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.hit.gov.pk/product.html
> 
> 
> AK-II is still under development and they are closed lipped about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 338303
> 
> 
> 
> Basic AK variant with APS
> View attachment 338304
> 
> 
> 
> Not much is available on it .. But it's a modification of the Ukranian Varta APS.




It is the VARTA APS with pakistan specific modifications, has been around for many years. The Oplot M features the latest model of VARTA with several improvements.



Zarvan said:


> I am going to go crazy you keep showing it as upgraded model but others suggest this is not the upgraded model @Dazzler



is reading the HIT website so difficult for you? 

www.hit.gov.pk

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Super Falcon

Ulla said:


> @Dazzler @Sarge @fatman17
> 
> Check this, might be interesting, because the official source is naming ALKHALID 2
> 
> It has two variants (Al Khalid I & II).
> 
> Al-Khalid-II is equipped with an Active Protection System (APS).
> 
> View attachment 338101
> 
> 
> *Written By: Maj Sana Nasri*


Trophy system u mean

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sulman Badshah

Ulla said:


> Al-Khalid-II is equipped with an Active Protection System (APS).


even AK1 is equipped with VERTA APS

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Inception-06

@Horus that's from the official website of HIT!

@Dazzler @DESERT FIGHTER @Sarge

Check it, a glimpse that the project AK-2 exists!





*Check the turret in the left corner and notice the new turret design!*

@Zarvan here check that, its better than facebook propaganda!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Army research

Ulla said:


> @Horus that's from the official website of HIT!
> 
> @Dazzler @DESERT FIGHTER @Sarge
> 
> Check it, a glimpse that the project AK-2 exists!
> View attachment 365936
> 
> 
> *Check the turret in the left corner and notice the new turret design!*
> 
> @Zarvan here check that, its better than facebook propaganda!


That's a Sherman?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hassan Guy

Is it still alive?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sameer25

have you guys seen the new chinese tank that the pakistan might get, the VT4


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

U mean chinese Abrams spinoff?


----------



## Sameer25

Ahmet Pasha said:


> U mean chinese Abrams spinoff?


better than what we have rn

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Sameer25 said:


> better than what we have rn



Bro Oplot is also involved!


----------



## Sameer25

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Bro Oplot is also involved!


oplot isnt that good


----------



## Dazzler

Sameer25 said:


> better than what we have rn



It failed trials in Pakistan last year. Not coming..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sameer25

Dazzler said:


> It failed trials in Pakistan last year. Not coming..


wait what?
i thought it was a really good like abrams lvl.
so then what is a replacement and next gen tank for pakistan


----------



## Dazzler

Sameer25 said:


> wait what?
> i thought it was a really good like abrams lvl.
> so then what is a replacement and next gen tank for pakistan



what you thought was far from truth. Replacement is yet to be decided. And, Oplot p is specifically built keeping pakistan's requirements in mind. Let's see how it performs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reichsmarschall

Sameer25 said:


> have you guys seen the new chinese tank that the pakistan might get, the VT4


Norinco VT-4 is now in Pakistan & currently at Bahawalpur Desert for summer trials.









Narendra Trump said:


> Norinco VT-4 is now in Pakistan & currently at Bahawalpur Desert for summer trials.


@Dazzler

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Imo looks better than oplot


----------



## Hassan Guy

Narendra Trump said:


> Norinco VT-4 is now in Pakistan & currently at Bahawalpur Desert for summer trials.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Dazzler


Hopefully they will be built at HIT if selected.


----------



## Path-Finder

Narendra Trump said:


> Norinco VT-4 is now in Pakistan & currently at Bahawalpur Desert for summer trials.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Dazzler


for real?


----------



## Reichsmarschall

Path-Finder said:


> for real?


i got this news from na maloom zaraiye


----------



## Path-Finder

Narendra Trump said:


> i got this news from na maloom zaraiye


is it the same vaswasa that ahem........receives?


----------



## Reichsmarschall

Path-Finder said:


> is it the same vaswasa that ahem........receives?


yes



Path-Finder said:


> is it the same vaswasa that ahem........receives?


Pir sahb also know about this


----------



## Path-Finder

Narendra Trump said:


> yes
> 
> 
> Pir sahb also know about this


in-ter-esting


----------



## Dazzler

Vt-4 was rejected and Oplot was given another chance


----------



## raahaat7

Dazzler said:


> Vt-4 was rejected and Oplot was given another chance


Will oplot come with transfer of tech?


----------



## Fieldmarshal

raahaat7 said:


> Will oplot come with transfer of tech?





Dazzler said:


> Vt-4 was rejected and Oplot was given another chance



Oplot hasent showed up for its summer trial n the summer's r almost gone.....n by the looks of it not coming at all. 
While on the other hand vt4 has been in Pak for the last couple of months n it has passed all its technical trials n is currently going through field trials.
Plus the sort of cheap spears that Ukrainians have been providing t80ud for the last year or so is mind boggling....as things stand today oplot is out of the competition unless the Ukrainians offer complete tot. Knowing the Ukrainians n the cheap bast@rds that they have been through out the t80ud deal. PA continuing with them seems highly unlikely 

Plus the Chinese have come back with a better offer of the their top of the line tank which might be here very soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mumm-Ra

Fieldmarshal said:


> Oplot hasent showed up for its summer trial n the summer's r almost gone.....n by the looks of it not coming at all.
> While on the other hand vt4 has been in Pak for the last couple of months n it has passed all its technical trials n is currently going through field trials.
> Plus the sort of cheap spears that Ukrainians have been providing t80ud for the last year or so is mind boggling....as things stand today oplot is out of the competition unless the Ukrainians offer complete tot. Knowing the Ukrainians n the cheap bast@rds that they have been through out the t80ud deal. PA continuing with them seems highly unlikely
> 
> Plus the Chinese have come back with a better offer of the their top of the line tank which might be here very soon.


What about that Oplot-P shown one of the Tank threads in this sub forum. Seems odd on part of the Ukrainians to make all that effort to develop a Pak specific variant and then not send it to trial at all. Not good business sense.
As for the Chinese tank coming again, can you please back it up with a credible source. One keeps hearing weird things on the internet.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## graphican

VT-4 or MBT-3000!!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Fieldmarshal

Xlvee01 said:


> As for the Chinese tank coming again, can you please back it up with a credible source. One keeps hearing weird things on the internet.



wt i tell is not from some news source n will not make it to the news for a while.
plus i am the one who originally broke the news of PA interest in acquiring another mbt n r looking at various options from which oplot was leading the way back than n at the same time bringing all our current t80ud to oplot standard....long long before it became news.
i was also the one who had said that the production of alkhalid had come to almost a stand still at the time of the ppp govt. this at a time when ppl on this forum were claiming absurd no. of tanks being produced by hit.
n the list goes on n on.

i dont post on this forum a lot but when i do u n the rest must read n listen.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Path-Finder

Fieldmarshal said:


> wt i tell is not from some news source n will not make it to the news for a while.
> plus i am the one who originally broke the news of PA interest in acquiring another mbt n r looking at various options from which oplot was leading the way back than n at the same time bringing all our current t80ud to oplot standard....long long before it became news.
> i was also the one who had said that the production of alkhalid had come to almost a stand still at the time of the ppp govt. this at a time when ppl on this forum were claiming absurd no. of tanks being produced by hit.
> n the list goes on n on.
> 
> i dont post on this forum a lot but when i do u n the rest must read n listen.


There is no T90 is the picture?


----------



## Suff Shikan

Ulla said:


> @Horus that's from the official website of HIT!
> 
> @Dazzler @DESERT FIGHTER @Sarge
> 
> Check it, a glimpse that the project AK-2 exists!
> View attachment 365936
> 
> 
> *Check the turret in the left corner and notice the new turret design!*
> 
> @Zarvan here check that, its better than facebook propaganda!



Looks more like easter eggs in Marvel and DC Movies 



Ahmet Pasha said:


> Imo looks better than oplot



Oplot P looks more capable than VT-4

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## aliaselin

Fieldmarshal said:


> Oplot hasent showed up for its summer trial n the summer's r almost gone.....n by the looks of it not coming at all.
> While on the other hand vt4 has been in Pak for the last couple of months n it has passed all its technical trials n is currently going through field trials.
> Plus the sort of cheap spears that Ukrainians have been providing t80ud for the last year or so is mind boggling....as things stand today oplot is out of the competition unless the Ukrainians offer complete tot. Knowing the Ukrainians n the cheap bast@rds that they have been through out the t80ud deal. PA continuing with them seems highly unlikely
> 
> Plus the Chinese have come back with a better offer of the their top of the line tank which might be here very soon.


Any interest of PA army to upgrade 85IIAP to 96B stardard?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## FuturePAF

Fieldmarshal said:


> wt i tell is not from some news source n will not make it to the news for a while.
> plus i am the one who originally broke the news of PA interest in acquiring another mbt n r looking at various options from which oplot was leading the way back than n at the same time bringing all our current t80ud to oplot standard....long long before it became news.
> i was also the one who had said that the production of alkhalid had come to almost a stand still at the time of the ppp govt. this at a time when ppl on this forum were claiming absurd no. of tanks being produced by hit.
> n the list goes on n on.
> 
> i dont post on this forum a lot but when i do u n the rest must read n listen.



Cost of the Oplot System is estimated by the following Source as $5 Million; If it is being considered; any chance the Turkish Altay Tank is being considered as it is probably in the same price range









Also any information Pakistan if planning upgrades to its other tanks; as a stop-gap or just a cost effective mid-life upgrade

Pakistan could consider doing something like the PT-16 Polish upgrade to the pt-91 (their version of the t-72; similar to al-khalid) on the current al-khalid and work with the turks on the armour for a small batch; source the gun from the poles; similar the leopard 2's gun, and the engine, active and passive defenses from the ukrianians


----------



## Akasa

There are rumors that the VT-4 has passed combat trials in the Cholistan Desert, Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fieldmarshal

Path-Finder said:


> There is no T90 is the picture?


The offer by the Russians still stands ie t90s. Even though we have alright relations with the Russians at the moment but chances of Pak buying from Russia r very slim..same goes for Ukraine as even though the cost of the tank it self was very reasonable but it has cost PA b arm n a leg to pay for the spares n right now the upgrade is costing PA more than the price of the actual tank....this leaving aside the piss poor quality of the spares n the endless delays....the oplot still has not showed up for retrials n if it does not show up for an other month or so than it might not show up at all as their is no point....the only thing that has showed up from Ukraine is a few beautiful girls though.
So the most likely option right now is vt4 or the copy of t90 that they have come up with or even t99 it self ie if they pass the trials ....
T85 is a stop gap n will be replaced in due course.
They won't be any more alzarrar upgrades either ie its reached its end of the line n all remaining t55/59 r being/ have been transferred to f.c



SinoSoldier said:


> There are rumors that the VT-4 has passed combat trials in the Cholistan Desert, Pakistan.


Under trials as we speak....not passed

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Path-Finder

Fieldmarshal said:


> The offer by the Russians still stands ie t90s. Even though we have alright relations with the Russians at the moment but chances of Pak buying from Russia r very slim..same goes for Ukraine as even though the cost of the tank it self was very reasonable but it has cost PA b arm n a leg to pay for the spares n right now the upgrade is costing PA more than the price of the actual tank....this leaving aside the piss poor quality of the spares n the endless delays....the oplot still has not showed up for retrials n if it does not show up for an other month or so than it might not show up at all as their is no point....the only thing that has showed up from Ukraine is a few beautiful girls though.
> So the most likely option right now is vt4 or the copy of t90 that they have come up with or even t99 it self ie if they pass the trials ....
> T85 is a stop gap n will be replaced in due course.
> They won't be any more alzarrar upgrades either ie its reached its end of the line n all remaining t55/59 r being/ have been transferred to f.c
> 
> 
> Under trials as we speak....not passed


Damn I suppose Ukraine is still not able to get things back to order. Sad. Hopefully good news comes soon regardless of the tank winning!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

The overall performance and capability of Alkhalid mbt has raised the performance bar for participating MBTs. The problem is that most options offered by both Oplot and vt-4 are already functional in Alkhalid. The Alkhalid-1 is a great improvement and offers performanceance on par or better than the MBTs being tested. Costs and lack of time are two reasons why PA is looking to buy a suitable off the shelf solution. its not that it can't make it, rather it wants to replace the no upgraded 59s and 69s (250 odd pieces) ASAP.



Fieldmarshal said:


> The offer by the Russians still stands ie t90s. Even though we have alright relations with the Russians at the moment but chances of Pak buying from Russia r very slim..same goes for Ukraine as even though the cost of the tank it self was very reasonable but it has cost PA b arm n a leg to pay for the spares n right now the upgrade is costing PA more than the price of the actual tank....this leaving aside the piss poor quality of the spares n the endless delays....the oplot still has not showed up for retrials n if it does not show up for an other month or so than it might not show up at all as their is no point....the only thing that has showed up from Ukraine is a few beautiful girls though.
> So the most likely option right now is vt4 or the copy of t90 that they have come up with or even t99 it self ie if they pass the trials ....
> T85 is a stop gap n will be replaced in due course.
> They won't be any more alzarrar upgrades either ie its reached its end of the line n all remaining t55/59 r being/ have been transferred to f.c
> 
> 
> Under trials as we speak....not passed



Any version lower than t-90Ms is already obsolete for PA and has not been considered. Russians didn't offer the MS version.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BetterPakistan

Dazzler said:


> The overall performance and capability of Alkhalid mbt has raised the performance bar for participating MBTs. The problem is that most options offered by both Oplot and vt-4 are already functional in Alkhalid. The Alkhalid-1 is a great improvement and offers performanceance on par or better than the MBTs being tested. Costs and lack of time are two reasons why PA is looking to buy a suitable off the shelf solution. its not that it can't make it, rather it wants to replace the no upgraded 59s and 69s (250 odd pieces) ASAP.
> 
> 
> 
> Any version lower than t-90Ms is already obsolete for PA and has not been considered. Russians didn't offer the MS version.



The question is, how many AK's are in service with PA as of 2017?


----------



## Arsalan

BetterPakistan said:


> The question is, how many AK's are in service with PA as of 2017?


Around 350 as per some unconfirmed reports!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mumm-Ra

Fieldmarshal said:


> i dont post on this forum a lot but when i do u n the rest must read n listen.


Somebody gotta prickly little ego. Learn to relax a bit. No need to get your panties in a bunch. I was merely asking since we have guys on this forum that have Pantsir, Su-35 and what not lined up for procurement by the armed forces. So one has to be a little skeptic about these things here. 

Anyways, thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Why is altay not considered????


----------



## Super Falcon

I want trophy self protection system like in our AL KHALID tank


----------



## TaimiKhan

Fieldmarshal said:


> wt i tell is not from some news source n will not make it to the news for a while.
> plus i am the one who originally broke the news of PA interest in acquiring another mbt n r looking at various options from which oplot was leading the way back than n at the same time bringing all our current t80ud to oplot standard....long long before it became news.
> i was also the one who had said that the production of alkhalid had come to almost a stand still at the time of the ppp govt. this at a time when ppl on this forum were claiming absurd no. of tanks being produced by hit.
> n the list goes on n on.
> 
> i dont post on this forum a lot but when i do u n the rest must read n listen.



Why Chinese not sending a variant of the T-99 ? Or is it off limits for exports ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Arsalan said:


> Around 350 as per some unconfirmed reports!



More than 440 as of 2017.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Arsalan

Dazzler said:


> More than 440 as of 2017.


The production in last two three years (2013/14-16/17)barely touched double figures as far as i am aware. Before that it was around 320-340 units so i stated 350 or there about. 
I might be wrong on this but i seriously doubt that!


----------



## Dazzler

Arsalan said:


> The production in last two three years (2013/14-16/17)barely touched double figures as far as i am aware. Before that it was around 320-340 units so i stated 350 or there about.
> I might be wrong on this but i seriously doubt that!



Let's leave it at that shall we.


----------



## Arsalan

Dazzler said:


> Let's leave it at that shall we.


May be you want to edit the last post and remove the quoted part (of my post)?
Have asked for mine to be removed as well.


----------



## TaimiKhan

Dazzler said:


> More than 440 as of 2017.


Dazzler, why Chinese not sending t99 for trials ??


----------



## Arsalan

TaimiKhan said:


> Dazzler, why Chinese not sending t99 for trials ??


They have agreed to it as far as i am aware.

@Dazzler ??


----------



## Fieldmarshal

TaimiKhan said:


> Why Chinese not sending a variant of the T-99 ? Or is it off limits for exports ?


The best that China has to offer will be here soon....u never know our guys might be putting it through trials in china as we speak


----------



## Blue Marlin

Arsalan said:


> They have agreed to it as far as i am aware.
> 
> @Dazzler ??


so these oplot-p's so there just to replace the type 59/69. how many type 59/69's are in pakistani service?
also is it true pakistan purchased some 250 t55 from serbia?

is the oplot p only a replcement for the typr 59/69 or is it the new al haider or is the alhaider the replacemnt for the type 59/69?

what about the al zarras when are they going? and being replaced with what?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TaimiKhan

Fieldmarshal said:


> The best that China has to offer will be here soon....u never know our guys might be putting it through trials in china as we speak


I believe that is how its done. First do trials there and then bring it here to test as per our conditions, environment conditions related tests are what matters for us here.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Arsalan

Blue Marlin said:


> so these oplot-p's so there just to replace the type 59/69. how many type 59/69's are in pakistani service?
> also is it true pakistan purchased some 250 t55 from serbia?
> 
> is the oplot p only a replcement for the typr 59/69 or is it the new al haider or is the alhaider the replacemnt for the type 59/69?
> 
> what about the al zarras when are they going? and being replaced with what?


The total number of Type 59/69 stands around 1000. Many have been upgraded to Al-Zarar standard but many remain as it is. I wont term Oplot as a "replacement" of any particular system sins the number that are likely to come wont be enough for a one on one replacement. The main reason of this deal to me still is the engine most likely. It is to make the deal of engine ToT sweet and we need that engine for our own programs. 

I am not sure about the Serbian tanks, there were news appearing on the internet regarding that but on ground i am not aware of any tanks coming. I think it was false.

@Dazzler may have more to share with us!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

TaimiKhan said:


> Dazzler, why Chinese not sending t99 for trials ??



It is not allowed for export just yet. And PA didnt ask for it as well. From subsystems, armor to transmission/ engine, both tanks share a lot of commonalities. However, many t-99s to lack a proper ECS which the VT-4 has since birth. The same goes for thermal imagers, both have uncooled one, the thermal imager was among the systems that didnt last long during trials.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blue Marlin

Arsalan said:


> The total number of Type 59/69 stands around 1000. Many have been upgraded to Al-Zarar standard but many remain as it is. I wont term Oplot as a "replacement" of any particular system sins the number that are likely to come wont be enough for a one on one replacement. The main reason of this deal to me still is the engine most likely. It is to make the deal of engine ToT sweet and we need that engine for our own programs.
> 
> I am not sure about the Serbian tanks, there were news appearing on the internet regarding that but on ground i am not aware of any tanks coming. I think it was false.
> 
> @Dazzler may have more to share with us!


ok so theres about ~1000 tanks that need replacing. it would be quiet interesting to see what they will be replaced with.

if pakistan is buying the oplot-p only for the tank dont you think they would have to negotiate a separate deal for tot for the tanks.
personally i would put the 1500hp engine in the ak2 and buy oplot-p cots and locally so there's 2 type of tanks with similar capabilities.

@Dazzler @Arsalan @DESERT FIGHTER what about the type 85ap? will they be replaced any time soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Pakistani tanks range does not make sense at all.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Fieldmarshal

Blue Marlin said:


> so these oplot-p's so there just to replace the type 59/69. how many type 59/69's are in pakistani service?
> also is it true pakistan purchased some 250 t55 from serbia?
> 
> 
> is the oplot p only a replcement for the typr 59/69 or is it the new al haider or is the alhaider the replacemnt for the type 59/69?
> 
> what about the al zarras when are they going? and being replaced with what?



The chances of oplot making it into PA ranks r very slim.....the reasons for this I have stated above.

All type t55/59/69 have been or are in the process of being handed to F.C.

Nothing final about alzarrar except the fact that it's reached end of the line.



Dazzler said:


> It is not allowed for export just yet. And PA didnt ask for it as well. From subsystems, armor to transmission/ engine, both tanks share a lot of commonalities. However, many t-99s to lack a proper ECS which the VT-4 has since birth. The same goes for thermal imagers, both have uncooled one, the thermal imager was among the systems that didnt last long during trials.



It is the Chinese that came with the offer

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

Blue Marlin said:


> ok so theres about ~1000 tanks that need replacing. it would be quiet interesting to see what they will be replaced with.
> 
> if pakistan is buying the oplot-p only for the tank dont you think they would have to negotiate a separate deal for tot for the tanks.
> *personally i would put the 1500hp engine in the ak2 and buy oplot-p cots and locally so there's 2 type of tanks with similar capabilities.*
> 
> @Dazzler @Arsalan @DESERT FIGHTER what about the type 85ap? will they be replaced any time soon.



And why would you want two different tanks with similar capabilities?? 



Dazzler said:


> It is not allowed for export just yet. And PA didnt ask for it as well. From subsystems, armor to transmission/ engine, both tanks share a lot of commonalities. However, many t-99s to lack a proper ECS which the VT-4 has since birth. The same goes for thermal imagers, both have uncooled one, the thermal imager was among the systems that didnt last long during trials.


Again, as per some latest reports and chatter, Chinese have given the green light and T99 may well be clear for export to us now. Let see!


----------



## Blue Marlin

Arsalan said:


> And why would you want two different tanks with similar capabilities??
> 
> 
> Again, as per some latest reports and chatter, Chinese have given the green light and T99 may well be clear for export to us now. Let see!


increase numbers quicker, zaslon aps, easy logistics as the t80ud already in service

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

Blue Marlin said:


> increase numbers quicker, zaslon aps, easy logistics as the t80ud already in service


Hmmmm,,
Makes some sense

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blue Marlin

Arsalan said:


> Hmmmm,,
> Makes some sense


id ljust like to know what will happen to the type 85's?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

Blue Marlin said:


> id ljust like to know what will happen to the type 85's?


Most likely to be transferred to other services like FC. These were more like stop-gap measures. Not sure if they have a future as MBT with PA.


----------



## Inception-06

Arsalan said:


> Most likely to be transferred to other services like FC. These were more like stop-gap measures. Not sure if they have a future as MBT with PA.



They will remain in service, technically they did get the same AL-ZARRAR electronic upgrade package where it was technically possible.

The T-85IIIAP is stationed all over Pakistan, I have seen pictures of this Tank presented in Peshawar, Lahore, and Taxila. It is was also used extensively in the desert.

My logic conclusions, is that NOW since we have inducted ca. 400 Alkhalids, the half of the T-85IIIAP units are concentrated in Sindh with Alkhalid (they can share the same logistics, ammunition, items etc. which save maintenance and logistical time, and the other half in Punjab to boost the Type-59IIM and Al-zarrar formations, while the home of the T-80UD remains Multan. I could be also wrong and Pakistan Army is using the PANZER KEIL tactic. where an attack regiment is formed with a mix of old and new Tank!

The panzer Keil is an offensive formation used by armored corps. The tanks would form into the wedge-shaped formation, with the most heavily armed and armored Tanks forming the tip, that is the Al-Khalid and T-80UD Tanks, T-85IIMP upgraded the base (where available), with the Al-Zarrar the wings.


follow that topic from 2013!

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/t-80...ng-with-al-khalid-and-al-zarrar.256619/page-2

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Isnt the vt-4 supposed to be more modern and advanced than type-99????


Arsalan said:


> And why would you want two different tanks with similar capabilities??
> 
> 
> Again, as per some latest reports and chatter, Chinese have given the green light and T99 may well be clear for export to us now. Let see!


----------



## Inception-06

Arsalan said:


> Most likely to be transferred to other services like FC. These were more like stop-gap measures. Not sure if they have a future as MBT with PA.




Check that, T-85 was developed with Serbian assistancep :
*T85 III *


----------



## AMG_12

Ulla said:


> They will remain in service, technically they did get the same AL-ZARRAR electronic upgrade package where it was technically possible.
> 
> The T-85IIIAP is stationed all over Pakistan, I have seen pictures of this Tank presented in Peshawar, Lahore, and Taxila. It is was also used extensively in the desert.
> 
> My logic conclusions, is that NOW since we have inducted ca. 400 Alkhalids, the half of the T-85IIIAP units are concentrated in Sindh with Alkhalid (they can share the same logistics, ammunition, items etc. which save maintenance and logistical time, and the other half in Punjab to boost the Type-59IIM and Al-zarrar formations, while the home of the T-80UD remains Multan. I could be also wrong and Pakistan Army is using the PANZER KEIL tactic. where an attack regiment is formed with a mix of old and new Tank!
> 
> The _panzerkeil_ is an offensive formation used by armoured corps. The tanks would form into awedge-shaped formation, with the most heavily armed and armoured Tanks forming the tip, that are the Al-Khalid and T-80UD Tanks, ,T-85IIMP upgraded the base (where available), with the Al-Zarrar the wings.
> 
> 
> follow that topic from 2013!
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/t-80...ng-with-al-khalid-and-al-zarrar.256619/page-2


Gujranwala/Rahwali is also one of T-80UDs permanent home.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Inception-06

Game.Invade said:


> Gujranwala/Rahwali is also one of T-80UDs permanent home.




So mixed formations! Good, that's a bigger surprise and headache for an enemy, but in my opinion more maintenance and logistical afford!


----------



## Dazzler

Ulla said:


> Check that, T-85 was developed with Serbian assistancep :
> *T85 III *



not developed but improved

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

REMOTE weapon station- AL khalid2






Optics..






Prototyping...

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## WaLeEdK2

Dazzler said:


> REMOTE weapon station- AL khalid2
> View attachment 425806
> 
> 
> Optics..
> 
> View attachment 425809
> 
> 
> Prototyping...
> 
> View attachment 425810



@Zarvan you'll like this.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zarvan

Dazzler said:


> REMOTE weapon station- AL khalid2
> View attachment 425806
> 
> 
> Optics..
> 
> View attachment 425809
> 
> 
> Prototyping...
> 
> View attachment 425810


This is AL KHALID 1 not AL KHALID II


----------



## Dazzler

Zarvan said:


> This is AL KHALID 1 not AL KHALID II


Rws is for alkali 2,not 1. So is the rapid prototyping, so is the round ball electrooptic sight.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dazzler

One more, look at the tv screen in the upper right corner.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## YeBeWarned

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Why is altay not considered????



To heavy ..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## python-000

dose Al khalid 2 really exists or it just roamers


----------



## Advocate Pakistan

python-000 said:


> dose Al khalid 2 really exists or it just roamers



Sometimes even I feel. Awain galan ee barniya hoiyan nay.


----------



## khanasifm

http://www.janes.com/article/76098/fiscal-constraints-hit-pakistan-s-production-of-al-khalid-i-tanks


----------



## Mumm-Ra

khanasifm said:


> http://www.janes.com/article/76098/fiscal-constraints-hit-pakistan-s-production-of-al-khalid-i-tanks



Why am I not surprised. Anyone who keep harping on that money is no problem for us in defence related matters needs to look at this. Without strong fiscal support, even our best projects and initiatives will fail.


----------



## Mrc

This is pathetic


----------



## khanasifm

3-4 million US dollars per tank x18 so 54-72 million per year what do you expect can poor country with crooks elite afford a year ?? Thus about a regiment per 2 years


----------



## Dazzler

Black tank at the back, seven roadwheels, larger turret, slanted hull and back. The schematics of Al khalid 2..

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

From HIT website;

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Inception-06

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> From HIT website;
> 
> View attachment 455087




posted by me years ago!

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## CHACHA"G"

So from many years ,,,, AK-II is still on d-boards or on some computers screens???????? Dam to slow progress when we look at starting date of AK or even when first batch joined Army.........



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> From HIT website;
> 
> View attachment 455087





Ulla said:


> posted by me years ago!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Looks like a turret mounted on top of customized M-113 body.


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> From HIT website;
> 
> View attachment 455087

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Advocate Pakistan

CHACHA"G" said:


> So from many years ,,,, AK-II is still on d-boards or on some computers screens???????? Dam to slow progress when we look at starting date of AK or even when first batch joined Army.........


HIT is being sent down the drain through budget cuts.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Advocate Pakistan said:


> HIT is being sent down the drain through budget cuts.



Budget went into these...

Rah e nijaat

Zarb e Azb

Radd ul Fisaad

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Advocate Pakistan

Dazzler said:


> Budget went into these...
> 
> Rah e nijaat
> 
> Zarb e Azb
> 
> Radd ul Fisaad


I know, pointing towards the politicians who have money in every budget for new model cars but when it comes to promoting defence research they immediately become champions of austerity.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Dazzler

Advocate Pakistan said:


> I know, pointing towards the politicians who have money in every budget for new model cars but when it comes to promoting defence research they immediately become champions of austerity.



Swiss accounts, surrey palace, Evan field apartments, Bahamas, Long Island etc etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Dazzler

HIT, by the grace of Almighty Allah achieved the assigned tasks to a large extent and also assisted Army in *R&D for development of Tank Al Khalid-2* and upgradation of Al Zarrar tank

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Cuirassier

Dazzler said:


> HIT, by the grace of Almighty Allah achieved the assigned tasks to a large extent and also assisted Army in *R&D for development of Tank Al Khalid-2* and upgradation of Al Zarrar tank


Every MoDP report be like....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

TF141 said:


> Every MoDP report be like....



True, but the reason i quoted this bit is that the R&D of AK-2 is nearing completion. Expected to be completed by year end.



Ahmet Pasha said:


> Looks like a turret mounted on top of customized M-113 body.



IF this is indeed the design, it is actually good for a couple of reasons. 

The slopped hull reminds me Challenger-2, which is considered by many to have the best frontal protection of all mbts. Of course, other features like composite materials also matter. 

The frontal slopped hull front will help deflecting the kinetic energy rounds to some extent, a design Russians have been using on their mbts for decades. The rear hull will likely provide more space for housing 1500hp engines like 6td-3e or others.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## YeBeWarned

Dazzler said:


> True, but the reason i quoted this bit is that the R&D of AK-2 is nearing completion. Expected to be completed by year end.
> 
> 
> 
> IF this is indeed the design, it is actually good for a couple of reasons.
> 
> The slopped hull reminds me Challenger-2, which is considered by many to have the best frontal protection of all mbts. Of course, other features like composite materials also matter.
> 
> The frontal slopped hull front will help deflecting the kinetic energy rounds to some extent, a design Russians have been using on their mbts for decades. The rear hull will likely provide more space for housing 1500hp engines like 6td-3e or others.



is it confirmed that we will be using 6TD-3 1500 HP engine from Ukraine ? i thought that engine was connected to Oplot - M deal which seems to be in downfall ..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Starlord said:


> is it confirmed that we will be using 6TD-3 1500 HP engine from Ukraine ? i thought that engine was connected to Oplot - M deal which seems to be in downfall ..



6TD-3 is preferred for the time being but other options are also available.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## LKJ86

Dazzler said:


> 6TD-3 is preferred for the time being but other options are also available.


What other options???


----------



## Dazzler

LKJ86 said:


> What other options???



Perhaps 150HB 1500hp engine from China is also a contender? They requested to test it some time ago.



LKJ86 said:


> What other options???



Perhaps 150HB 1500hp engine from China is also a contender? They requested to test it some time ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Inception-06

*@Dazzler @Signalian @Zarvan @django @Gryphon @Starlord @Basel @Oscar @Horus and all others are also welcome !*

*TANK AL-KHALID-I*


Enhanced protection against Smart Ammo and other forms of top attacks.


Independent and effective Comd & Con system for deeper and long distance operations.


Nuclear environement sustainable operations and life support system.


An Iindeginously developed tank to have higher strategic and tactical mobility.


Capable of fighting in built up areas i.e. in urban warfare.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## khanmubashir

HOW.many of.it.we exported or.got. a deal???

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zarvan

Inception-06 said:


> *@Dazzler @Signalian @Zarvan @django @Gryphon @Starlord @Basel @Oscar @Horus and all others are also welcome !*
> 
> *TANK AL-KHALID-I*
> 
> 
> Enhanced protection against Smart Ammo and other forms of top attacks.
> 
> 
> Independent and effective Comd & Con system for deeper and long distance operations.
> 
> 
> Nuclear environement sustainable operations and life support system.
> 
> 
> An Iindeginously developed tank to have higher strategic and tactical mobility.
> 
> 
> Capable of fighting in built up areas i.e. in urban warfare.
> View attachment 490356
> View attachment 490357
> View attachment 490358
> 
> 
> View attachment 490355


Nice hopefully you would post more pictures

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

Inception-06 said:


> *@Dazzler @Signalian @Zarvan @django @Gryphon @Starlord @Basel @Oscar @Horus and all others are also welcome !*
> 
> *TANK AL-KHALID-I*
> 
> 
> Enhanced protection against Smart Ammo and other forms of top attacks.
> 
> 
> Independent and effective Comd & Con system for deeper and long distance operations.
> 
> 
> Nuclear environement sustainable operations and life support system.
> 
> 
> An Iindeginously developed tank to have higher strategic and tactical mobility.
> 
> 
> Capable of fighting in built up areas i.e. in urban warfare.
> View attachment 490356
> View attachment 490357
> View attachment 490358
> 
> 
> View attachment 490355


when king abdullah was on alkhlid . any details sir?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Inception-06

.


Imran Khan said:


> when king abdullah was on alkhlid . any details sir?



*Jordanian King Abdullah II BIN AL-Hussain Visited HIT ON 09th FEB 2018 *

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

khanmubashir said:


> HOW.many of.it.we exported or.got. a deal???



None, but the king showed interest. Let see what happens but i think at $6 million a pop, its too expensive for Jordanians.



Inception-06 said:


> *@Dazzler @Signalian @Zarvan @django @Gryphon @Starlord @Basel @Oscar @Horus and all others are also welcome !*
> 
> *TANK AL-KHALID-I*
> 
> 
> Enhanced protection against Smart Ammo and other forms of top attacks.
> 
> 
> Independent and effective Comd & Con system for deeper and long distance operations.
> 
> 
> Nuclear environement sustainable operations and life support system.
> 
> 
> An Iindeginously developed tank to have higher strategic and tactical mobility.
> 
> 
> Capable of fighting in built up areas i.e. in urban warfare.
> View attachment 490356
> View attachment 490357
> View attachment 490358
> 
> 
> View attachment 490355




HIT website has been updated just days ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

Inception-06 said:


> *@Dazzler @Signalian @Zarvan @django @Gryphon @Starlord @Basel @Oscar @Horus and all others are also welcome !*
> 
> *TANK AL-KHALID-I*
> 
> 
> Enhanced protection against Smart Ammo and other forms of top attacks.
> 
> 
> Independent and effective Comd & Con system for deeper and long distance operations.
> 
> 
> Nuclear environement sustainable operations and life support system.
> 
> 
> An Iindeginously developed tank to have higher strategic and tactical mobility.
> 
> 
> Capable of fighting in built up areas i.e. in urban warfare.
> View attachment 490356
> View attachment 490357
> View attachment 490358
> 
> 
> View attachment 490355


Thanks buddy. Great share.

Just disappointed with turret design.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Path-Finder

Inception-06 said:


> *@Dazzler @Signalian @Zarvan @django @Gryphon @Starlord @Basel @Oscar @Horus and all others are also welcome !*
> 
> *TANK AL-KHALID-I*
> 
> 
> Enhanced protection against Smart Ammo and other forms of top attacks.
> 
> 
> Independent and effective Comd & Con system for deeper and long distance operations.
> 
> 
> Nuclear environement sustainable operations and life support system.
> 
> 
> An Iindeginously developed tank to have higher strategic and tactical mobility.
> 
> 
> Capable of fighting in built up areas i.e. in urban warfare.
> View attachment 490356
> View attachment 490357
> View attachment 490358
> 
> 
> View attachment 490355



Protection against Javelin like top attack system?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Signalian said:


> Thanks buddy. Great share.
> 
> Just disappointed with turret design.



it is an incremental improvement, not a radical one so essentially the same design. That will be the the Alkhalid 2.

Did anyone notice the new muzzle reference system adjacent to the doghouse?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Inception-06

Signalian said:


> Thanks buddy. Great share.
> 
> Just disappointed with turret design.



Why are you disappointed ?



Dazzler said:


> it is an incremental improvement, not a radical one so essentially the same design. That will be the the Alkhalid 2.
> 
> Did anyone notice the new muzzle reference system adjacent to the doghouse?



Yes, I did notice it! Could you describe the new armour, what are this nopes on the armour plates or what the purpose? Welding seams ?



Path-Finder said:


> Protection against Javelin like top attack system?



No, I don't think so, only against light explosions and fragments!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Inception-06

Dazzler said:


> None, but the king showed interest. Let see what happens but i think at $6 million a pop, its too expensive for Jordanians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HIT website has been updated just days ago.




T-90 is Between $4.25-$4.5 million per vehicle in 2017 depending on model and who you are buying it from. But why is Alkhalid so expensive ?


----------



## Dazzler

Inception-06 said:


> T-90 is Between $4.25-$4.5 million per vehicle in 2017 depending on model and who you are buying it from. But why is Alkhalid so expensive ?



It is expensive due to:

better engine and transmission
better fire and gun control
better ammo,
datalink and netcentric warfare capability/ situation awareness
environment control and
battle management system.



Inception-06 said:


> Why are you disappointed ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I did notice it! Could you describe the new armour, what are this nopes on the armour plates or what the purpose? Welding seams ?
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't think so, only against light explosions and fragments!



Armour is classified for obvious reasons, but my guess would be new inserts, materials within the composite armour module. Still pretty decent frontal protection. Nopes are for easily mounting and removing ERA plates. You also see these on the VT-4.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Signalian

Inception-06 said:


> Why are you disappointed ?


expected wedge shaped.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Signalian said:


> expected wedge shaped.



The wedge shape is nothing but hollow metallic or composite cavities that can be added, stuffed as needed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheDarkKnight

@Dazzler @Signalian 
Can one of you let us know how many AK or AK-I tanks have been produced so far? And when AK-II is expected to enter production?


----------



## Signalian

TheDarkKnight said:


> @Dazzler @Signalian
> Can one of you let us know how many AK or AK-I tanks have been produced so far? And when AK-II is expected to enter production?


Between 400-420 AK
36 AK-1

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Amigator

@Dazzler @Signalian I have already asked before on this forum about APS on Al Khalid tanks. But I couldn't get any answer. Can you please enlighten me what type of APS are on AL Khalid Tanks and what are their characteristics?


----------



## TheDarkKnight

Signalian said:


> Between 400-420 AK
> 36 AK-1


Are the base AK models upgradeable to AK-I?
Is AK-II expected to be revealed this year?


----------



## Signalian

Amigator said:


> @Dazzler @Signalian I have already asked before on this forum about APS on Al Khalid tanks. But I couldn't get any answer. Can you please enlighten me what type of APS are on AL Khalid Tanks and what are their characteristics?


Im not sure if there an APS installed on any PA MBT currently.


----------



## Cuirassier

Just Varta soft kill, on the AK-1s.


Signalian said:


> Im not sure if there an APS installed on any PA MBT currently.


----------



## CHI RULES

TF141 said:


> Just Varta soft kill, on the AK-1s.


Is it also installed on T80 UD.


----------



## Tipu7

TF141 said:


> Just Varta soft kill, on the AK-1s.


No, was tested but rejected.


CHI RULES said:


> Is it also installed on T80 UD.


No. 


Signalian said:


> Between 400-420 AK
> 36 AK-1


There are roughly 330+ Alkahlids in total, including all types.


----------



## Dazzler

Tipu7 said:


> No, was tested but rejected.
> 
> No.
> 
> There are roughly 330+ Alkahlids in total, including all types.



Over 450 including 42 AK1s.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tipu7

Dazzler said:


> Over 450 including 42 AK1s.


I will love to know the source of this figure.


----------



## Dazzler

Tipu7 said:


> I will love to know the source of this figure.



I am the source. Eye witness

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tipu7

Dazzler said:


> I am the source. Eye witness


Well, tell more then.
Only way we can field 420+ AKs if HIT is producing 50 each since past two years. If it is so, then it's a very good thing

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Tipu7 said:


> Well, tell more then.
> Only way we can field 420+ AKs if HIT is producing 50 each since past two years. If it is so, then it's a very good thing



Some things are better left not said. Matter of national security. @Signalian

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TsAr

Dazzler said:


> I am the source. Eye witness


As always dazzling with facts.....


----------



## Signalian

Tipu7 said:


> There are roughly 330+ Alkahlids in total, including all types.


Ok boss


----------



## Tipu7

Signalian said:


> Ok boss


Awain OK boss, 
Unlike many other members, you don't fire random shots. If u have stated this figure, then there must be some truth behind it.


----------



## Signalian

Tipu7 said:


> Awain OK boss,
> Unlike many other members, you don't fire random shots. If u have stated this figure, then there must be some truth behind it.


G Sir, i posted the figure through some research however i don't post here to prove anything neither do I get time to post now so believe what you think is correct.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## HRK

Tipu7 said:


> There are roughly 330+ Alkahlids in total, including all types.


AK should be in +400 units of both AK and AK-I as we know previously from official sources (click here) that there were around 324 till 2014-2015 till end of 2017 *30 *more was handover Army for this plz see attached screenshots 










which mean till end of 2017 we had 324+30=350+ AK and AK-I and as per one report HIT was targeting production of 25 tanks per year onward so +400 is possible till end of 2019

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
8


----------



## Dazzler

HRK said:


> AK should be in +400 units of both AK and AK-I as we know previously from official sources (click here) that there were around 324 till 2014-2015 till end of 2017 *30 *more was handover Army for this plz see attached screenshots
> 
> View attachment 575549
> View attachment 575550
> 
> 
> which mean till end of 2017 we had 324+30=350+ AK and AK-I and as per one report HIT was targeting production of 25 tanks per year onward so +400 is possible till end of 2019



I mentioned 42 AK-1 as i have seen the 42nd being tested myself. No way i am going to deny that.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Dazzler said:


> I mentioned 42 AK-1 as i have seen the 42nd being tested myself. No way i am going to deny that.


Are Al-Zarrars retired?



Dazzler said:


> I mentioned 42 AK-1 as i have seen the 42nd being tested myself. No way i am going to deny that.


Are Al-Zarrars retired?


----------



## Dazzler

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Are Al-Zarrars retired?
> 
> 
> Are Al-Zarrars retired?



Umm, nope, not yet. Will likely serve for a decade if no replacement is found.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HRK

Dazzler said:


> I mentioned 42 AK-1 as i have seen the 42nd being tested myself. No way i am going to deny that.


Good to hear this .... and If you witnessed the testing of 42nd AK-I _in first quarter of 2018_ then it prove that they are producing at least 16-20 AK-I per year, as it is known from official sources that till _30 Jun, 2017_ total 25 AK-I *(9 in 2015-2016 and 16 in 2016-2017)* were produced

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Khafee

HRK said:


> Good to hear this .... and If you witnessed the testing of 42nd AK-I _in first quarter of 2018_ then it prove that they are producing at least 16-20 AK-I per year, as it is known from official sources that till _30 Jun, 2017_ total 25 AK-I *(9 in 2015-2016 and 16 in 2016-2017)* were produced


SO how many AK & AK-1 in service today?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HRK

Khafee said:


> SO how many AK & AK-1 in service today?


IF they meet their target of 25 tank in a year then 25 in 2017-2018 or by conservative estimate 20 in the same year

AK-I should be
...... 9 in 2015-2016
add: 16 in 2016-2017
add: 20 or 25 in 2017-2018
total 45 or 50

rest are the baseline AK tanks

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Dazzler

Khafee said:


> SO how many AK & AK-1 in service today?



Refer to post # 519

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

Dazzler said:


> I am the source. Eye witness


May Allah guide you and protect you.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Dazzler

Khafee said:


> May Allah guide you and protect you.



Pakistan, Kashmir, ummah. 

Ameen!

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Khafee

Dazzler said:


> Pakistan, Kashmir, ummah.
> 
> Ameen!


Ameen Ya Rubbul Alameen

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Nasr

Dazzler said:


> I mentioned 42 AK-1 as i have seen the 42nd being tested myself. No way i am going to deny that.



Would the original Al-Khalid's (first 320 tanks) be upgraded to AK-1 standard? Or would there be a phased production to replace AKs with AK-1s? Or will remain as is and just adding on new AK-1s to the tank fleet?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Nasr said:


> Would the original Al-Khalid's (first 320 tanks) be upgraded to AK-1 standard? Or would there be a phased production to replace AKs with AK-1s? Or will remain as is and just adding on new AK-1s to the tank fleet?



If budget allows.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Dubious

Thorough Pro said:


> Hello bharti OSINT operator, you want everything to be spoon-fed to you?


Control yourself please

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tipu7

HRK said:


> AK should be in +400 units of both AK and AK-I as we know previously from official sources (click here) that there were around 324 till 2014-2015 till end of 2017 *30 *more was handover Army for this plz see attached screenshots
> 
> View attachment 575549
> View attachment 575550
> 
> 
> which mean till end of 2017 we had 324+30=350+ AK and AK-I and as per one report HIT was targeting production of 25 tanks per year onward so +400 is possible till end of 2019


Well, you are correct that AK1 production is in full swing.

Below are hulls of fresh AK1






A freshly produced AK1. (ERA is yet to install)






And 6TD-02 1200 HP diesel engine.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## AsifIjaz

Tipu7 said:


> Well, you are correct that AK1 production is in full swing.
> 
> Below are hulls of fresh AK1
> View attachment 575938
> 
> 
> A freshly produced AK1. (ERA is yet to install)
> 
> View attachment 575939
> 
> 
> And 6TD-02 1200 HP diesel engine.
> 
> View attachment 575940


Many thanks for this. Any chance of getting a 1500 hp engine from ukraine. There has been alot of talk around this and of i am not mistaken then a few MOUs were signed as well... Any concrete steps around getting a higher / better engine?


----------



## Dazzler

Tipu7 said:


> Well, you are correct that AK1 production is in full swing.
> 
> Below are hulls of fresh AK1
> View attachment 575938
> 
> 
> A freshly produced AK1. (ERA is yet to install)
> 
> View attachment 575939
> 
> 
> And 6TD-02 1200 HP diesel engine.
> 
> View attachment 575940



Good thing you watched the new ISPR video of COAS visiting to industries closely.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CodeforFood

HRK said:


> AK should be in +400 units of both AK and AK-I as we know previously from official sources (click here) that there were around 324 till 2014-2015 till end of 2017 *30 *more was handover Army for this plz see attached screenshots
> 
> View attachment 575549
> View attachment 575550
> 
> 
> which mean till end of 2017 we had 324+30=350+ AK and AK-I and as per one report HIT was targeting production of 25 tanks per year onward so +400 is possible till end of 2019


What does it take to increase the parallel production capabilities? I am sorry if this has been discussed before. Please point me in the right direction if that being the case.


----------



## Tipu7

Dazzler said:


> Good thing you watched the new ISPR video of COAS visiting to industries closely.


Specially downloaded it for sake of taking snapshots.
It seems Pakistan has rebuilt initial batch of 5 UDs only, as a test case.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

Tipu7 said:


> Specially downloaded it for sake of taking snapshots.
> It seems Pakistan has rebuilt initial batch of 5 UDs only, as a test case.



True, 5 UDs are locally upgraded with Ukrainian assistance for now. All 320 will undergo the upgrades.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Ak-1 and AVLB on the same chassis.. Production continues since 2015...

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## HRK

CodeforFood said:


> What does it take to increase the parallel production capabilities?


one word: FINANCE 

we already have capacity to manufacture 50 tanks but we hardly utilised even the half of it since many years .....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Inception-06

Dazzler said:


> True, 5 UDs are locally upgraded with Ukrainian assistance for now. All 320 will undergo the upgrades.



I thought it is just a rebuild and overhauling programm, what do the upgrades include?


----------



## Tipu7

Inception-06 said:


> I thought it is just a rebuild and programme, *what do the upgrades include*?


Good Question.


Dazzler said:


> True, 5 UDs are locally upgraded with Ukrainian assistance for now. All 320 will undergo the upgrades.


Ukrainian or Russian? Since both were interested.


----------



## Dazzler

Tipu7 said:


> Good Question.
> 
> Ukrainian or Russian? Since both were interested.



Ukrainian

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

125mm smoothbore made by HMC

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tipu7

Dazzler said:


> 125mm smoothbore made by HMC
> 
> 
> View attachment 578736


You still doing postmortem of that video...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

Tipu7 said:


> You still doing postmortem of that video...



True that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanasifm

Not sure if they are producing just this gun barrels or all artillery gun barrels , can save quite a bit large caliber guns barrels last few hundred rounds

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) found it. So what's the sitrep? Are Turks or any other nation still offering subsystems or does HIT want to make it entirely by themselves??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Ahmet Pasha said:


> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) found it. So what's the sitrep? Are Turks or any other nation still offering subsystems or does HIT want to make it entirely by themselves??


Offers are there, not sure how HIT intends to pursue it, but we'll find out since the design is frozen and they're moving to prototype production. So if HIT took advantage of anyone's help, it will have likely decided by now.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Great Janjua

We need info about al khalid 2 when will the first prototype be shown

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## his5850

Please tell me is this any true ??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reFIdntk72E&feature=emb_title


----------



## Maxpane

his5850 said:


> Please tell me is this any true ??


@Quwa @Dazzler

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Maxpane said:


> @Quwa @Dazzler


All his moaning about ERA makes no sense, specially since ERA is usually not placed during peacetime and can be placed by troops even in the field.

He mocked the mobility? Ironic how the same engine powers Oplot & older T-1 powers T-80UD, Oplot being heavier and UD having similar weight?

He also is wrong about the sights, it uses 3rd Gen sights by Sagem (built in Pak by Shibli).

The commander doesn’t really need a separate sight specially when he has a Hunter Killer available, which he didnt mention. However it is available to the commander, @Dazzler. 

Also how the fk did he measure the protection offered? Be it the armour or the ERA?


I can go on and on.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Transmission is bad? It uses the SESSM500, same as Lecrec, is that bad?

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Tipu7

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> All his moaning about ERA makes no sense, specially since ERA is usually not placed during peacetime and can be placed by troops even in the field.


The coverage of ERA on frontal turret arc is poor with numerous exposed areas. Not to mention that ERA is missing from Hull front and sides. (no ERA on turret roof either).
Shown below a bit comparison of Al Khalid with T90S. (Pic not for you but for understanding of other members)

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Invictus.inc

True 


Tipu7 said:


> The coverage of ERA on frontal turret arc is poor with numerous exposed areas. Not to mention that ERA is missing from Hull front and sides. (no ERA on turret roof either).
> Shown below a bit comparison of Al Khalid with T90S. (Pic not for you but for understanding of other members)
> 
> View attachment 595243


A lot of fan boys out there that won't take any criticism
I agree with you
Most of our tanks are as vulnerable as it gets
No protection what so ever
As far as the argument of ERA being employed in the field
Dude you need to have ERA plates in the inventory first
What are they gonna put on the tanks Incase of war?
Sand bags like they did in Operation Al Mizan?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HRK

Tipu7 said:


> The coverage of ERA on frontal arc is poor with numerous exposed areas. Not to mention that ERA is missing from Hull front and sides. (no ERA on turret roof either).
> Shown below a bit comparison of Al Khalid with T90S. (Pic not for you but for understanding of other members)
> 
> View attachment 595243


Bro you know better than me ....

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Tipu7

HRK said:


> Bro you know better than me ....
> View attachment 595271
> 
> View attachment 595275
> 
> View attachment 595272
> 
> View attachment 595274


Yes there are some models displayed with much better ERA coverage than the ones which are in operational use. Problem is, majority of forward deployed AKs are not like that.
Plus, the gaps in front arc of Turret are very obvious even in those 'up armored' AKs. For example, notice AK Turret front ERA coverage with that of Type 96A.






You can easily spot the difference in ERA coverage on hull front also.
Interestingly, none of Tanks of Chinese origin have ERA coverage on sides of Hull.

Shown below are sides of AK (no ERA), and T80UD & T90S (ERA plates)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HRK

Tipu7 said:


> Yes there are some models displayed with much better ERA coverage than the ones which are in operational use. Problem is, majority of forward deployed AKs are not like that.
> Plus, the gaps in front arc of Turret are very obvious. For example, notice AK Turret front ERA coverage with that of Type 96A.
> 
> View attachment 595287
> 
> 
> You can easily spot the difference in ERA coverage on hull front also.
> Interestingly, none of Tanks of Chinese origin have ERA coverage on sides of Hull.
> 
> Shown below are sides of AK (no ERA), and T80UD & T90S (ERA plates)
> 
> View attachment 595289


Dear Your point is not completely wrong and I agree we should seek modular composite armour for additional overall protection of our tanks, but that will
- Increase the overall weight of tank
- which will decrease power to weight ratio
- while increase the ground pressure
- which mean decrease in acceleration

unless we go for upgrade for engine and transmission, now tell me which other engine option is available to us other than 1200 hp Ukrainian engine .... ??? their 1,500 hp is still not operational IF I am not wrong.

In short we are here seeking compromise on mobility while trying to increase the protection which again would not be effective against Guided Anti tank missiles of Indian Army ... so in any of this situation faster acceleration and superior mobility would be more desired element than to have 1000 mm armour protection at frontal arc 

In context of AK series try to understand most of the pic of AK which we see in media are not shown in battle ready conditions .....

secondly frontal arc of AK turret in strip down condition have 650mm or above armour protection without additional plates of composite armour which are installed in arrow shape position with space configuration from main turret which add extra protection now plz tell me which tank round of Indian Army is capable to penetrate 650 mm armour .....???

The best HEAT round which India have is capable of 550 mm penetration which is decent but not enough against AK series, so bigger threat to our tanks are Guided Anti-tank missiles of Indian army than anti-tank rounds of Indian tanks ... as chances of survival after getting hit by those tanks round are more than ATGM.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tipu7

HRK said:


> Dear Your point is not completely wrong and I agree we should seek modular composite armour for additional overall protection of our tanks, but that will
> - Increase the overall weight of tank
> - which will decrease power to weight ratio
> - while increase the ground pressure
> - which mean decrease in acceleration
> 
> unless we go for upgrade for engine and transmission, now tell me which other engine option is available to us other than 1200 hp Ukrainian engine .... ??? their 1,500 hp is still not operational IF I am not wrong.
> 
> In short we are here seeking compromise on mobility while trying to increase the protection which again would not be effective against Guided Anti tank missiles of Indian Army ... so in any of this situation faster acceleration and superior mobility would be more desired element than to have 1000 mm armour protection at frontal arc
> 
> In context of AK series try to understand most of the pic of AK which we see in media are not shown in battle ready conditions .....
> 
> secondly frontal arc of AK turret in strip down condition have 650mm or above armour protection without additional plates of composite armour which are installed in arrow shape position with space configuration from main turret which add extra protection now plz tell me which tank round of Indian Army is capable to penetrate 650 mm armour .....???
> 
> The best HEAT round which India have is capable of 550 mm penetration which is decent but not enough against AK series, so bigger threat to our tanks are Guided Anti-tank missiles of Indian army than anti-tank rounds of Indian tanks ... as chances of survival after getting hit by those tanks round are more than ATGM.


Your points are valid but i am building argument settled by that RedEffect video. In that video, he has given a general evaluation of AK while keeping the Modern Threat Environment into perspective; an evaluation which is bench-marked by likes of T14, Leo2A6, M1A1SepV2 etc. However, once we consider our own specific requirements then situation changes as our tanks have to face India centric threats. Therefore our tank 'modifications' will be (1) as per the threats which we perceive from Indian armored and anti-armor forces and (2) our economic conditions. Hence forth two conclusions can be drawn,

1: Is AK good enough to face challenges posed by Indian armored forces while considering our economic limitations?
Definitely Yes.

2: Is AK good enough to compete with modern MBTs around the globe w.r.t ground based anti-armor threats present any where in World?
Definitely No.



HRK said:


> In context of AK series try to understand most of the pic of AK which we see in media are not shown in battle ready conditions .....


I have seen AK in battlefield conditions, and with very limited ERA coverage. Perhaps army prefers mobility over protection and thus give little emphasis on putting up more and more armor around the tank. An example of it is Oplot-M conversion into Oplot-P. When Oplot-M was trialed in Pakistan, army highlighted certain 'modifications' and one of most physically prominent one was the removal of ERA from both sides of hull.
Contemporary, AK protection level is 'fine', however it will soon be demanding upgrades; including in the domain of armor, once T90MS and modern anti-tank weapons will proliferate in Indian army.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HRK

Tipu7 said:


> 2: Is AK good enough to compete with modern MBTs around the globe w.r.t ground based anti-armor threats present any where in World?
> Definitely No.


exactly but the question is 

Is Al-Khalid an inferior design ....?? 
In my humble opinion NO ....

Could it be made compatible with other more modern contemporary tanks .... ???
Answer is Yes .... a Definitive Yes 

Addition/Installation of
- Modular Composite Armour
- High power engine 1500 or above
- Next Generation TI sights 

or in short comprehensive upgrade of Al-Khalid while maintaining the same _Basic Design_ could give competition to any new modern tank, this is the beauty of this tank.



Tipu7 said:


> Perhaps army prefers mobility over protection and thus give little emphasis on putting up more and more armor around the tank. An example of it is Oplot-M conversion into Oplot-P. When Oplot-M was trialed in Pakistan, army highlighted certain 'modifications' and one of most physically prominent one was the removal of ERA from both sides of hull.


Exactly this is an example in which we can observe the operational preference of Pakistan Army

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tipu7

HRK said:


> Is Al-Khalid an inferior design ....??
> In my humble opinion NO ....
> 
> Could it be made compatible with other more modern contemporary tanks .... ???
> Answer is Yes .... a Definitive Yes
> 
> Addition/Installation of
> - Modular Composite Armour
> - High power engine 1500 or above
> - Next Generation TI sights
> 
> or in short comprehensive upgrade of Al-Khalid while maintaining the same _Basic Design_ could give competition to any new modern tank, this is the beauty of this tank.


Its just an old design when we compare it with modern 3+ gen MBTs. After-all it was developed in 80s and there is limitation in the extent of its up gradation.
An evolution of AK design is VT4 which if upgraded with specific externally sourced upgrades from West can become a promising solution against any Tank India can put in battlefield. It outperformed our Al Khalid and Ukranian Oplot and even in Chinese configuration it was very much appreciated by the army. But then "things" happened and project was put on halt.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HRK

Tipu7 said:


> But then "things" happened and project was put on halt.


those thing were related to internal situation or with foreign situation ....??

P.S. is there any possibility to consider Chinese 1500+ hp engine for AK-2 ???

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakistan Space Agency

Is Pakistan still producing Al-Khalids? How many have been produced to date?


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> Is Pakistan still producing Al-Khalids? How many have been produced to date?


HIT is still producing Al-Khalid 1s but only about 20 a year (as per MODP YB 2017-2018). They can produce thrice that number but due to several factors arnt doing so.

Right now there are about 350-400 AK/AK1s in PA.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PakFactor

Dr. Strangelove said:


> HIT is still producing Al-Khalid 1s but only about 20 a year (as per MODP YB 2017-2018). They can produce thrice that number but due to several factors arnt doing so.
> 
> Right now there are about 350-400 AK/AK1s in PA.



What's the reason money -- resources?


----------



## Pakistan Space Agency

Dr. Strangelove said:


> HIT is still producing Al-Khalid 1s but only about 20 a year (as per MODP YB 2017-2018). They can produce thrice that number but due to several factors arnt doing so.
> 
> Right now there are about 350-400 AK/AK1s in PA.



Thanks.

Are the Al-Khalids the most advance tanks in Pakistan Army or the Ukrainian/Russian tanks?


----------



## Tipu7

HRK said:


> those thing were related to internal situation or with foreign situation ....??
> 
> P.S. is there any possibility to consider Chinese 1500+ hp engine for AK-2 ???


Not in my knowledge pal.


----------



## denel

PakFactor said:


> What's the reason money -- resources?


I had read somewhere that they have gotten out of tank making business, i am not sure how accurate that report was and hence looking for an external replacement.


----------



## HRK

denel said:


> I had read somewhere that they have gotten out of tank making business, i am not sure how accurate that report was and hence looking for an external replacement.


wrong report they are very much in tank manufacturing business, in fact they have programs to upgrade the plant and increase of production as well

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Baltistan scouts

Pakistan should at least be on par with 4500 tanks as indian army .production should be increased for ak1 untill at least we can get some chinese tanks to increase numbers.money is not an issue to say the least it is not fighter jets we are building .pakistan should look at the british challenger worked well in the heat in gulf war and would work well in sindh front


----------



## Cornered Tiger

Dazzler said:


> True, 5 UDs are locally upgraded with Ukrainian assistance for now. All 320 will undergo the upgrades.



Will this be an Oplot level upgrade?


----------



## HRK

Cornered Tiger said:


> Will this be an Oplot level upgrade?


details are not available but no not to that level .....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tipu7

Cornered Tiger said:


> Will this be an Oplot level upgrade?


If we are replacing 6TD01 with 6TD02 in UDs, then yes it's kinda 'Oplot type' upgrade.



denel said:


> I had read somewhere that they have gotten out of tank making business, i am not sure how accurate that report was and hence looking for an external replacement.


HIT was in upgradation phase last time I heard. Tank production and upgradation is currently going on, however the plans keep changing.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zarvan

Tipu7 said:


> If we are replacing 6TD01 with 6TD02 in UDs, then yes it's kinda 'Oplot type' upgrade.
> 
> 
> HIT was in upgradation phase last time I heard. Tank production and upgradation is currently going on, however the plans keep changing.


Ukraine is in bad place we have a great chance of getting engine technology from them I really wish we do that instead of wasting this opportunity. Engine is the one where most countries get stuck and fail.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GriffinsRule

I wonder if it would just be better for Pakistan to design a new tank from scratch, using the lessons learned from 30 years of Al-Khalid development. This tank is not going to be up to par against the latest Indian T-90s or their recently inducted Apache anti-tank helicopters. Those Apache numbers are likely to increase in the future too. The issue I think is that Pakistan did not actually design the Al-Khalid and it is a Chinese tank that we slapped on different engine and optics etc on it to customize it for our needs. However, has Pakistan done any research into creating its own armor to use in tank production, or even ERA plates? Most unlikely that it has been the case.
In the ideal world, Al-Khalid would be relegated to the role now being fulfilled with light tanks such as T-59s, T-69s, and T-85. And a new frontline tank is co-developed and produced for the next 20 years.

One other thing that I feel will not hold true in the future is this emphasis on mobility over protection. It worked through the 80s & 90s and up even in the 2000s. However, times have changed and so has technology. Where before speed was a good option to deny enemy tanks and guns a chance to track and shoot at your successfully, there has been a sea change in technology which makes tracking a moving target very easy, while being on the move yourself. That is why every advanced country that also faces technologically advanced foes have opted to induct heavier, up-armored tanks. 

India will take a substantial lead in arms from us sooner or later and I think it would behove us to plan for the future and not rely entirely on past laurels. The next tank battles might not go in our favor if we dont have the right tools.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

GriffinsRule said:


> I wonder if it would just be better for Pakistan to design a new tank from scratch, using the lessons learned from 30 years of Al-Khalid development. This tank is not going to be up to par against the latest Indian T-90s or their recently inducted Apache anti-tank helicopters. Those Apache numbers are likely to increase in the future too. The issue I think is that Pakistan did not actually design the Al-Khalid and it is a Chinese tank that we slapped on different engine and optics etc on it to customize it for our needs. However, has Pakistan done any research into creating its own armor to use in tank production, or even ERA plates? Most unlikely that it has been the case.
> In the ideal world, Al-Khalid would be relegated to the role now being fulfilled with light tanks such as T-59s, T-69s, and T-85. And a new frontline tank is co-developed and produced for the next 20 years.
> 
> One other thing that I feel will not hold true in the future is this emphasis on mobility over protection. It worked through the 80s & 90s and up even in the 2000s. However, times have changed and so has technology. Where before speed was a good option to deny enemy tanks and guns a chance to track and shoot at your successfully, there has been a sea change in technology which makes tracking a moving target very easy, while being on the move yourself. That is why every advanced country that also faces technologically advanced foes have opted to induct heavier, up-armored tanks.
> 
> India will take a substantial lead in arms from us sooner or later and I think it would behove us to plan for the future and not rely entirely on past laurels. The next tank battles might not go in our favor if we dont have the right tools.


No need to reinvent the wheel. PA can either choose Altay with modifications or Type 99 from china again with Pakistan specific alterations. Problem with small batch production will always be higher cost and difficulty in procuring parts. Both China and Turkey will transfer technology and it will mean Pakistan will always have another source for parts, r&d for future upgrades and Pakistani input.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GriffinsRule

OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ said:


> No need to reinvent the wheel. PA can either choose Altay with modifications or Type 99 from china again with Pakistan specific alterations. Problem with small batch production will always be higher cost and difficulty in procuring parts. Both China and Turkey will transfer technology and it will mean Pakistan will always have another source for parts, r&d for future upgrades and Pakistani input.


Yep, thats why I said co-develop, though I dont agree on just buying Altay or Type 99. We also dont have a small batch requirement but need to replace 800-1000 tanks over the long run. That is a lot of armor and hence the need to develop something with whichever partner is more suitable. We have seen Chinese and Ukranian tanks fail in trials, so why not make something from the grounds up to meet those specific operational needs. Its not the same as reinventing the wheel.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

GriffinsRule said:


> Yep, thats why I said co-develop, though I dont agree on just buying Altay or Type 99. We also dont have a small batch requirement but need to replace 800-1000 tanks over the long run. That is a lot of armor and hence the need to develop something with whichever partner is more suitable. We have seen Chinese and Ukranian tanks fail in trials, so why not make something from the grounds up to meet those specific operational needs. Its not the same as reinventing the wheel.


India has been at it for decades... that would be akin to throwing money at a problem. Something, Pakistan cannot and shouldn't do.
Both Chinese and now Turks are developing systems that were actually built and started elsewhere... there is years of research and sweat on these systems... Pakistan needs to iron out the deficiencies and modify according to it's needs. That would be a cheaper and more comprehensive solution.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HRK

The main point which I think was lost in the debate is that the protection and mobility both are dependent on availability of powerful tank engine, AK and AK-I though utilialize 1,200hp engine but provide 650+mm protection and if we add ERA and composite armour block on basic structure this configuration will give additional 250-300 mm protection, while keeping the weight upto 46-48 tonnes these figures are representing good armoured solution just compare basic figures of AK with any other 3rd generation tanks in similar weight class, AK series offer

- Protection
- Mobility
- Firepower

statistics competitive to any other 3 gen tank, except to those western tanks which offer heavy protection which mean heavier weight as well, but then backed by high horsepower engines, so as ask earlier 'currently' which 1,500 hp engine is available to Pakistan .... ???

Before to suggest Altay members should keep in mind that it use German engine, so IF acquired do they think Germans would not play politics under one or other fancy names .... ?? and supply would remain uniform without any hindrance .... ???

and those who are suggesting Type-99 series should first need to provide source that it is on offer for export, if not then the suggestion is invalid

So members a humble request before to suggest any new off the shelf acquisition plz keep some patiences, let AK-II get revealed by HIT which is under development all I can say is that it will be a 56+ tonnes class tank which will offer much superior protection than its counterpart in Indian Army with better mobility.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## GriffinsRule

HRK said:


> The main point which I think was lost in the debate is that the protection and mobility both are dependent on availability of powerful tank engine, AK and AK-I though utilialize 1,200hp engine but provide 650+mm protection and if we add ERA and composite armour block on basic structure this configuration will give additional 250-300 mm protection, while keeping the weight upto 46-48 tonnes these figures are representing good armoured solution just compare basic figures of AK with any other 3rd generation tanks in similar weight class, AK series offer
> 
> - Protection
> - Mobility
> - Firepower
> 
> statistics competitive to any other 3 gen tank, except to those western tanks which offer heavy protection which mean heavier weight as well, but then backed by high horsepower engines, so as ask earlier 'currently' which 1,500 hp engine is available to Pakistan .... ???
> 
> Before to suggest Altay members should keep in mind that it use German engine, so IF acquired do they think Germans would not play politics under one or other fancy names .... ?? and supply would remain uniform without any hindrance .... ???
> 
> and those who are suggesting Type-99 series should first need to provide source that it is on offer for export, if not then the suggestion is invalid
> 
> So members a humble request before to suggest any new off the shelf acquisition plz keep some patiences, let AK-II get revealed by HIT which is under development all I can say is that it will be a 56+ tonnes class tank which will offer much superior protection than its counterpart in Indian Army with better mobility.



How about mating two 800hp engines! Similar to what BMW 850cs had back in the day. Two straight six engines slapped together at a 60degree angle to produce the company's first 12 cylinder!

No idea how complex this problem is to solve, but there's always a solution to any problem out there. Might require some out of the box thinking and taking risks.

Actually just occurred to me that why can't we have two engines powering a tank? Seems like a reasonable idea for redundancy as well as improved power and adding armor. Aircraft, helicopters, boats etc all have two to even three engines. So why not tanks? Any experts care to opine in?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HRK

GriffinsRule said:


> How about mating two 800hp engines! Similar to what BMW 850cs had back in the day. Two straight six engines slapped together at a 60degree angle to produce the company's first 12 cylinder!
> 
> No idea how complex this problem is to solve, but there's always a solution to any problem out there. Might require some out of the box thinking and taking risks.


I too in past many years thought on these lines and then prefered the idea of having _W-engines configuration_ for PA tanks, but on practical grounds as we don't have engine manufacturing technology and no other country is offering engine for tanks in this configuration, but mostly offering V configuration engines they must have some good reason for this not known to us.

So on practical grounds I drop this idea for further thinking and refinement ..... 



GriffinsRule said:


> Actually just occurred to me that why can't we have two engines powering a tank? Seems like a reasonable idea for redundancy as well as improved power and adding armor. Aircraft, helicopters, *boats etc all have two to even three engines*. So why not tanks? Any experts care to opine in?


Actually placing two seperate engine in a single tank would increase the dimension of tanks too much which would affect transportability and mobility of the tank which mean even if we change all of the infracture of Tanks transport we will still have a tank who mobility and turning capability especially in tight space would be compromised due to increase dimensions.

Another factor which will increase threat to that tanks would the visibility which will be increase due new dimensions, this will indirectly affect protection of the purposed Tank, additionally If you remember Russian Tanks and other tanks based on russian philosophy of tank building appear short and bit compact than their western counterparts because of this reason.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Both, type 99 and Altay are on offer to Pakistan. 

https://defence.pk/pdf/index.php?threads/403766/

Altay will have an inhouse 1800hp engine start from the 3rd 250 tank batch. Besides Pakistan has previously stuck with both Chinese and Ukrainian tanks... and all three could be source of future procurement or assembly/manufacture. With Type 99 around 500 and 250 each of Altay and oplot.


----------



## echo 1

I found this Video from Red Effect he is very knowledgeable about everything tank ranging from armor, firepower, mobility, etc. I find his videos very informative. Here are three (Al-Khalid, Chinese Tanks, and Arjun MBT) that everyone can learn from. I did not look before but if these have been posted before so apologize in advance if they have already been posted.


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

HRK said:


> counterpart


The latest T90 of Indian Army?


----------



## HRK

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> The latest T90 of Indian Army?


yaap ....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> The latest T90 of Indian Army?


They bought AM variant not sure though.



echo 1 said:


> I found this Video from Red Effect he is very knowledgeable about everything tank ranging from armor, firepower, mobility, etc. I find his videos very informative. Here are three (Al-Khalid, Chinese Tanks, and Arjun MBT) that everyone can learn from. I did not look before but if these have been posted before so apologize in advance if they have already been posted.


Debunked.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tipu7

OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ said:


> Both, type 99 and Altay are on offer to Pakistan.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/index.php?threads/403766/
> 
> Altay will have an inhouse 1800hp engine start from the 3rd 250 tank batch. Besides Pakistan has previously stuck with both Chinese and Ukrainian tanks... and all three could be source of future procurement or assembly/manufacture. With Type 99 around 500 and 250 each of Altay and oplot.


Pakistan is neither interested in Type 99 nor in Altay. 


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> They bought AM variant not sure


MS. Though a source suggests that Indian T90MS will be a downgraded variant. So expect some new crazy title for India specific variant. 
And There is no longer such thing as T-90AM. Russians now use the designation of T-90M.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## YeBeWarned

Tipu7 said:


> Pakistan is neither interested in Type 99 nor in Altay.
> 
> MS. Though a source suggests that Indian T90MS will be a downgraded variant. So expect some new crazy title for India specific variant.
> And There is no longer such thing as T-90AM. Russians now use the designation of T-90M.



is there any updates of AK-2 ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Very interesting turret geometry... notice

- position of gunner and commander, 

- gun mantlet

- position of optics, 

- frontal and side armor, all look different. 








for reference, here is the AK-1 turret

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zulfiqar

Dazzler said:


> Very interesting turret geometry... notice
> 
> - position of gunner and commander,
> 
> - gun mantlet
> 
> - position of optics,
> 
> - frontal and side armor, all look different.
> 
> View attachment 598257
> 
> 
> 
> for reference, here is the AK-1 turret
> 
> View attachment 598258




If the first picture is of AK2 model then looking at gun mantlet it looks like AK2 has less armor at front. I may be wrong though. What do you think?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Zulfiqar said:


> If the first picture is of AK2 model then looking at gun mantlet it looks like AK2 has less armor at front. I may be wrong though. What do you think?



I noticed that too but the geometry of turret seems to provide more than 30 degree LOS. If so, thats an improvement over current model.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zulfiqar

Dazzler said:


> I noticed that too but the geometry of turret seems to provide more than 30 degree LOS. If so, thats an improvement over current model.
> 
> View attachment 598323



Any idea when will we see 1st prototype of the tank/turret?

Will there be any APS protection (Hard kill not shtora type).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Zulfiqar said:


> Any idea when will we see 1st prototype of the tank/turret?
> 
> Will there be any APS protection (Hard kill not shtora type).



I think GL-5 was being considered but dont know more. Dont expect much before 2025 as funds are scarce. Keep in mind we had Ak-1s readied by 2010, and batch production only began in 2015.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## imranyounus

Dazzler said:


> Very interesting turret geometry... notice
> 
> - position of gunner and commander,
> 
> - gun mantlet
> 
> - position of optics,
> 
> - frontal and side armor, all look different.
> 
> View attachment 598257
> 
> 
> 
> for reference, here is the AK-1 turret
> 
> View attachment 598258


 is it authentic pic how can we say it is actually the design under consideration or selected one. otherwise it looks good though

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Armchair

To shore up numbers, we could produce an AK Lite. 
Such a tank would look exactly like the current production AK but be a lot cheaper and lighter.
A 600 hp engine. 
Cheaper transmission. 
Thermal sight technology has been revolutionised so the expensive French sights could be replaced by a Chinese / Korean / Russian sighting system. 

This half priced AK lite would give numbers to the PA and since IA won't know which one is AK lite or the real AK, they will have to treat all tanks as an equal theat.

Al Khalid Lite would give numbers to the PA at a time when funds are short and there is a serious shortage of tanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Great Janjua

Al Khalid 2 is taking the piss


----------



## Dazzler

imranyounus said:


> is it authentic pic how can we say it is actually the design under consideration or selected one. otherwise it looks good though


From HIT website.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Signalian

Armchair said:


> To shore up numbers, we could produce an AK Lite.
> Such a tank would look exactly like the current production AK but be a lot cheaper and lighter.
> A 600 hp engine.
> Cheaper transmission.
> Thermal sight technology has been revolutionised so the expensive French sights could be replaced by a Chinese / Korean / Russian sighting system.
> 
> This half priced AK lite would give numbers to the PA and since IA won't know which one is AK lite or the real AK, they will have to treat all tanks as an equal theat.
> 
> Al Khalid Lite would give numbers to the PA at a time when funds are short and there is a serious shortage of tanks.


Lite is AZ

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Armchair

Signalian said:


> Lite is AZ



Understand but at a point AZs are not feasible to rebuild this could be an option. 
The benefit of an AK Lite over an AZ are:
1. Superior design and performance
2. Greater gun stability 
3. Cannot be destinguished by enemy from AK
4. New builds, not rebuild of old, tired, outdated and poorly constructed design

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tipu7

Dazzler said:


> I noticed that too but the geometry of turret seems to provide more than 30 degree LOS. If so, thats an improvement over current model.
> 
> View attachment 598323


The placement of Commander sight is interesting.


Armchair said:


> Understand but at a point AZs are not feasible to rebuild this could be an option.
> The benefit of an AK Lite over an AZ are:
> 1. Superior design and performance
> 2. Greater gun stability
> 3. Cannot be destinguished by enemy from AK
> 4. New builds, not rebuild of old, tired, outdated and poorly constructed design


The benefits offered by AZ far exceeds that of AK in terms of mass production and mass deployment.
AZ is simply a convertion albeit a major one. All T55, T59, T69 in our arsenal or available in export market as dirt cheap surplus stock can be acquired and converted into AZ. So if PA needs 500 tanks in time period of half decade, then AZ is right answer. AK and it's advance variants will constitute the tip of sphere, while bulk of armor will continue to be based upon AZ.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Armchair said:


> Understand but at a point AZs are not feasible to rebuild this could be an option.
> The benefit of an AK Lite over an AZ are:
> 1. Superior design and performance
> 2. Greater gun stability
> 3. Cannot be destinguished by enemy from AK
> 4. New builds, not rebuild of old, tired, outdated and poorly constructed design


Perhaps also consider a new IFV for carrying ATGM and 105 mm guns?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Armchair

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Perhaps also consider a new IFV for carrying ATGM and 105 mm guns?



I think we have to have a vision of armoured employment before we pick an IFV (or not). Present doctrine does not allow for IFV as APCs are seen doctrinally as battle taxis.
Countries with a doctrine of a fighting apc tend to employ ifvs.

What we lack is a coherent and original armour philosophy that is not a hotch potch copy paste.



Tipu7 said:


> The placement of Commander sight is interesting.
> 
> The benefits offered by AZ far exceeds that of AK in terms of mass production and mass deployment.
> AZ is simply a convertion albeit a major one. All T55, T59, T69 in our arsenal or available in export market as dirt cheap surplus stock can be acquired and converted into AZ. So if PA needs 500 tanks in time period of half decade, then AZ is right answer. AK and it's advance variants will constitute the tip of sphere, while buld of armor will continue to be based upon AZ.



Question is, will AZ be adequate for the modern battlefield or will a low cost AK version be a better buy? 

I personally would go your route after thinking about your and signalians pov.
My vision is to bulk up on low cost numerous tanks and APCs and use this in a blitz over central sindh to northern punjab, grabbing vast territories from India.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JPMM

Tipu7 said:


> The placement of Commander sight is interesting.
> 
> The benefits offered by AZ far exceeds that of AK in terms of mass production and mass deployment.
> AZ is simply a convertion albeit a major one. All T55, T59, T69 in our arsenal or available in export market as dirt cheap surplus stock can be acquired and converted into AZ. So if PA needs 500 tanks in time period of half decade, then AZ is right answer. AK and it's advance variants will constitute the tip of sphere, while bulk of armor will continue to be based upon AZ.


This is the best/right way for you to go. You can also improve the FCS/ERA/Ammo etc of the AZ, making it a very cheap Lite Tank compared to the Heavy Weight Tanks currently avaiable.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

JPMM said:


> This is the best/right way for you to go. You can also improve the FCS/ERA/Ammo etc of the AZ, making it a very cheap Lite Tank compared to the Heavy Weight Tanks currently avaiable.


Its using Thetis.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sunny4pak

*Al-Khalid 1 & 2?*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Alkhalid-1 uses 3rd gen Matis STD TI sights instead of 2nd gen Cetherine FC.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## syed_yusuf

A very basic question , is alkhalid 3rd gen tank ?


----------



## khanasifm

So German leperod 2 Tank 120 mm gun info which is also used by m1a1 tank out ranges a good number of atgm like tow 2 3650m or other 4000 m range

not sure how Chinese and AK 125mm gun pans out

https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/mediawiki/index.php/Al-Khalid_Chinese/Pakistan_Main_Battle_Tank_(MBT)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Sunny4pak said:


> *Al-Khalid 1 & 2?*



Same old info repeated over and over. I would wait for someone with more accurate info.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 8 pass charlie

hey so yesterday on a rurkish page there was a claim that Pakistan is now buying 282 tanks from Azerbaijan upgraded T55.any info.or this is just mad claim like Serbian One.coz the same amount and tank repeated again????


----------



## Dazzler

syed_yusuf said:


> A very basic question , is alkhalid 3rd gen tank ?



Yes, it is.


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

8 pass charlie said:


> 282 tanks from Azerbaijan upgraded T55.


I heard it was from Serbia


----------



## khanasifm

https://aminoapps.com/c/military-amino/page/item/al-khalid-2000/wKXq_7LwfpIJp3MRVRkKRjZD1PBo2zbPQjj


----------



## bananarepublic

khanasifm said:


> https://aminoapps.com/c/military-amino/page/item/al-khalid-2000/wKXq_7LwfpIJp3MRVRkKRjZD1PBo2zbPQjj
> 
> View attachment 623046



Not only does the turrent looks out of proportion ,so does the rest of the tank.
And nine roadwheels!!? Even the Abrahams have 7

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

bananarepublic said:


> Not only does the turrent looks out of proportion ,so does the rest of the tank.
> And nine roadwheels!!? Even the Abrahams have 7



Reminds me of Black Eagle mbt prototype. So many things out of proportion but someone made a detailed model out of it. 

        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


----------



## HRK

khanasifm said:


> So German leperod 2 Tank 120 mm gun info which is also used by m1a1 tank out ranges a good number of atgm like tow 2 3650m or other 4000 m range
> 
> not sure how Chinese and AK 125mm gun pans out
> 
> https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/mediawiki/index.php/Al-Khalid_Chinese/Pakistan_Main_Battle_Tank_(MBT)
> 
> View attachment 618681



Its not about the maximum range but about the effective range in AT role, so all the tanks with 120 mm or 125 mm main gun have almost comparable maximum ranges but the effective targeting ranges are different as the armour penetration value of AT rounds decrease with the increase of range, like If am not wrong Abram M1A2 main gun could effectively target up to 3 km range ..... AK gun have a maximum range of 4 KM but effective range for AT role is limited to 2 KM same as T-90 tanks main gun ....

==========================================
@Dazzler 

You might find following video interesting .... 





BTW after watching it completely all I could find which is worth mentioning is some features which they have discuss mush is related to Digitisation of T-90 M3 Proryv tank as the designer claimed that removal of gunner is possible if required other than this not extraordinary feature is mention in this video

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

HRK said:


> Its not about the maximum range but about the effective range in AT role, so all the tanks with 120 mm or 125 mm main gun have almost comparable maximum ranges but the effective targeting ranges are different as the armour penetration value of AT rounds decrease with the increase of range, like If am not wrong Abram M1A2 main gun could effectively target up to 3 km range ..... AK gun have a maximum range of 4 KM but effective range for AT role is limited to 2 KM same as T-90 tanks main gun ....
> 
> ==========================================
> @Dazzler
> 
> You might find following video interesting ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW after watching it completely all I could find which is worth mentioning is some features which they have discuss mush is related to Digitisation of T-90 M3 Proryv tank as the designer claimed that removal of gunner is possible if required other than this not extraordinary feature is mention in this video



Proryv has some glaring shortcomings in FCS and armor. The video is just Russian propaganda nothing more.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal9

bananarepublic said:


> Not only does the turrent looks out of proportion ,so does the rest of the tank.
> And nine roadwheels!!? Even the Abrahams have 7



This is pure figment from some site - I am sorry. Not real. I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings...

BTW T-90 is rather light and maneuverable tank, which is a newer version of T-72.

T-80 AFAIK has glaring shortcomings revealed in the Chechen wars. Just my two cents.


----------



## Packee

Bilal9 said:


> This is pure figment from some site - I am sorry. Not real. I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings...
> 
> BTW T-90 is rather light and maneuverable tank, which is a newer version of T-72.
> 
> T-80 AFAIK has glaring shortcomings revealed in the Chechen wars. Just my two cents.


The only real weakness the Chechen wars showed of the T-80B and T-80BV was the lack of APU. Everything else was more so due to the stupidity of having Tanks go into a city without ERA or Infantry support against rebels that knew a tank's weakness. Of course the T-80B couldn't elevate its gun to 70 degrees and shoot RPG teams on top of a building.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
2


----------



## Signalian

Bilal9 said:


> T-80 AFAIK has glaring shortcomings revealed in the Chechen wars. Just my two cents.


A clear example that just buying a weapon system doesnt guarantee success, its how the weapon system is deployed in combat.

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Bilal9

Glaiviator said:


> The only real weakness the Chechen wars showed of the T-80B and T-80BV was the lack of APU. Everything else was more so due to the stupidity of having Tanks go into a city without ERA or Infantry support against rebels that knew a tank's weakness. Of course the T-80B couldn't elevate its gun to 70 degrees and shoot RPG teams on top of a building.



Exactly - those are the points that I was going make.

If you ask me - adopting T-80 of any versions may not be that great an idea in the subcontinent - if you want a heavier lead tank in small numbers. Maintenance is always a huge factor.

Armies can adopt refurb late version Leopard 2's with better electronics, sensors and replace the turret with one having newer Leopard Turret with smaller slimmer frontal signature (a la Indonesia). This way you can get a modern tank almost equivalent to Abrams M1A2 or Merkava IV for a lot less coin. BTW, not a fan of Turbine engines...

Or go for the whole shbang and get the T-14 Armata when the work the bugs out of that platform...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Packee

Bilal9 said:


> Exactly - those are the points that I was going make.
> 
> If you ask me - adopting T-80 of any versions may not be that great an idea in the subcontinent - if you want a heavier lead tank in small numbers. Maintenance is always a huge factor.
> 
> Armies can adopt refurb late version Leopard 2's with better electronics, sensors and replace the turret with one having newer Leopard Turret with smaller slimmer frontal signature (a la Indonesia). This way you can get a modern tank almost equivalent to Abrams M1A2 or Merkava IV for a lot less coin. BTW, not a fan of Turbine engines...
> 
> Or go for the whole shbang and get the T-14 Armata when the work the bugs out of that platform...


The turbine engine was one of the main reasons we didn't get the M1 Abrams, were pretty lucky that Ukraine had the Diesel engine version, really fixed the main problem of the T-80 series.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Incog_nito

Will AK-II be the VT-4 license version with some non-Chinese elements?


----------



## Packee

Incog_nito said:


> Will AK-II be the VT-4 license version with some non-Chinese elements?


Ak-2 is in development and will be a different tank, probably will have some Technologies from the VT-4, VT-4 is a tank we're getting to make up numbers.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zarvan

I have said this before I would repeat it again. Pakistan's best bet for AK II is to work with Turkey, and basically develop 55 tonne version of Altay Tank.


Incog_nito said:


> Will AK-II be the VT-4 license version with some non-Chinese elements?


No it won't be. AK II is separate project from Altay.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Packee

Zarvan said:


> I have said this before I would repeat it again. Pakistan's best bet for AK II is to work with Turkey, and basically develop 55 tonne version of Altay Tank.


It already exists, it's called the K2 Black Panther. I'm pretty sure we're already working with Turkey's Aselsan for AK-2, i doubt it'll just be a version of the Atlay or K2 though.


----------



## Incog_nito

Glaiviator said:


> Ak-2 is in development and will be a different tank, probably will have some Technologies from the VT-4, VT-4 is a tank we're getting to make up numbers.



Why not we get some additional T-80s from Ukraine with upgrades?
And Keep developing AK-IIs.


----------



## iLION12345_1

Incog_nito said:


> Why not we get some additional T-80s from Ukraine with upgrades?
> And Keep developing AK-IIs.


No additional T80s, but we’re upgrading our T80s with systems (optics, armor etc) from the T84 Oplots.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Packee

Incog_nito said:


> Why not we get some additional T-80s from Ukraine with upgrades?
> And Keep developing AK-IIs.


We are already getting VT-4s in big numbers which are better overall, we did plan on upgrading our T-80UDs/T-84s to Oplot standards, but stopped due to high costs.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ghazi52

*Al-Khalid' Tank to be displayed at 'International Defence Exhibition*

14 February 2000

ISLAMABAD, February 14 (Online) : Pakistan's 'Main Battle Tank-2000,Al-Khalid' will make its first international public appearance at the International Defence Exhibition and Seminar 2000 (IDEAS 2000) in Karachi in November 2000.

Informed sources told Online here Monday that MBT-Al-Khalid, which is a joint venture between Pakistan and China, was currently undergoing production at the Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT).

"It is a tank designed jointly by Pakistan and China with a Ukrainian engine", they said and added. the would be completely manufactured at HIT and the Ukrainian engine would also be assembled in Pakistan under a transfer of technology agreement.

IDEAS 2000 is an international defence exhibition arranged by the Government of Pakistan and the Pakistan Armed Forces to boost Pakistan's defence exports. IDEAS 2000 will be held in Karachi in November 1999. A large number of national and international public and private sector defence organizations, manufacturers and suppliers will be participating in the 5-day exhibition.

It may be recalled that AL-Khalid had also taken a part in a competition when it participated in a tank competition for the Turkish Army earlier in 1999.

Pakistan is looking to export the Al-Khalid main battle tank. A number of countries are looking at the Al-Khalid for its possible induction into their armies. The Pakistan Army has ordered more than 500 Al-Khalid main battle tanks for its Armoured Corps primarily to replace its ageing Chinese-built T-54s, T-55s, T-59s and T-69s and the US-built M48s. Although final orders for the Al-Khalid in the next 25 years may include upto 4,000 Al-Khalid main battle tanks. The Pakistan Army's more modern current tanks include the Chinese T-85II and the Ukrainian T-80UD.


----------



## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

ghazi52 said:


> *Al-Khalid' Tank to be displayed at 'International Defence Exhibition*
> 
> 14 February 2000
> 
> ISLAMABAD, February 14 (Online) : ...
> 
> Pakistan is looking to export the Al-Khalid main battle tank. A number of countries are looking at the Al-Khalid for its possible induction into their armies. The Pakistan Army has ordered more than 500 Al-Khalid main battle tanks for its Armoured Corps primarily to replace its ageing Chinese-built T-54s, T-55s, T-59s and T-69s and the US-built M48s.
> 
> Although final orders for the Al-Khalid in the next 25 years may include upto...
> 
> "4,000" Al-Khalid main battle tanks.
> 
> The Pakistan Army's more modern current tanks include the Chinese T-85II and the Ukrainian T-80UD.



What a humbling retrospective...


----------



## Incog_nito

Glaiviator said:


> We are already getting VT-4s in big numbers which are better overall, we did plan on upgrading our T-80UDs/T-84s to Oplot standards, but stopped due to high costs.



But you are sure that PA doesn't need T-80s with upgrades similar to T-84s from Ukraine?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## fatman17

AK II is the VT4.


----------



## Scorpiooo

Bilal9 said:


> Exactly - those are the points that I was going make.
> 
> If you ask me - adopting T-80 of any versions may not be that great an idea in the subcontinent - if you want a heavier lead tank in small numbers. Maintenance is always a huge factor.
> 
> Armies can adopt refurb late version Leopard 2's with better electronics, sensors and replace the turret with one having newer Leopard Turret with smaller slimmer frontal signature (a la Indonesia). This way you can get a modern tank almost equivalent to Abrams M1A2 or Merkava IV for a lot less coin. BTW, not a fan of Turbine engines...
> 
> Or go for the whole shbang and get the T-14 Armata when the work the bugs out of that platform...


Sir what are major flaws of T80 or in other words shortcomings


Incog_nito said:


> Will AK-II be the VT-4 license version with some non-Chinese elements?


iMO AK 2 is derivation of MBT 2000 , so it ever local production of VT4 (MBT 3000) start it will come under project AL hiader not al khalil


----------



## Scorpiooo

Glaiviator said:


> It already exists, it's called the K2 Black Panther. I'm pretty sure we're already working with Turkey's Aselsan for AK-2, i doubt it'll just be a version of the Atlay or K2 though.


Atlay is modified version of black panther , both fall in 4th gen tanks leagues. Turkey developed it help of Korean help from there black panther project

Altay is the excellent tank but too much experience for Pakistan, in simple word we can't afford it


----------



## Bilal9

Scorpiooo said:


> Sir what are major flaws of T80 or in other words shortcomings



Let's start with reviewing the following article, then we can go from there. 









This is Why Russia's T-80 Tank Is a Total Disaster


Russia's T-80 tank was a total mess.




nationalinterest.org





Not all T-80's are bad tanks (T-80 UD version with Diesel Engine is okay), but the T-72 as well as the follow on models to the T-72 (T-90) are smaller and more nimble tanks with just as much firepower. And cheaper to boot. For a 'numbers' tank, T-72 and T-90 have become preferred tanks in the Russian Army. T-14 Armata is much larger than these older tanks and also more expensive, it will be the new 'Lead' tank for the Russians once teething issues are resolved.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Incog_nito said:


> Why not we get some additional T-80s from Ukraine with upgrades?
> And Keep developing AK-IIs.


Our UD wasnt the usual t80. Its an 84 on t80 hull. Same turret, armor, engine, gun, electronics as the T84. So yes we cant have more UDs but oplots.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Scorpiooo

Bilal9 said:


> Let's start with reviewing the following article, then we can go from there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Why Russia's T-80 Tank Is a Total Disaster
> 
> 
> Russia's T-80 tank was a total mess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalinterest.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not all T-80's are bad tanks (T-80 UD version with Diesel Engine is okay), but the T-72 as well as the follow on models to the T-72 (T-90) are smaller and more nimble tanks with just as much firepower. And cheaper to boot. For a 'numbers' tank, T-72 and T-90 have become preferred tanks in the Russian Army. T-14 Armata is much larger than these older tanks and also more expensive, it will be the new 'Lead' tank for the Russians once teething issues are resolved.


T14 is 4th gen tank or 3rd plus tanks sir?


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Turk vendors like Aselsan etc were offering expertise and a leopard like turret design.

But HIT uncles probably gonna fall right back into Iron Brother lap.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal9

Scorpiooo said:


> T14 is 4th gen tank or 3rd plus tanks sir?



Since T90 is a 3rd generation tank, most would agree that T-14 is a 4th generation Tank, not a 3+, but that is my opinion.

T-14 (and the T-15, which is a similar IFV, also the wheeled APC 'Bumerang', and the T-16 'BREM') are radical design revisions from traditional tank/IFV design, with an automatic robotic loader and unmanned turret and the three crew housed way out front in a safe 'pod'. If the tank gets hit, and cooks off the ammo in the main compartment, the crew is supposed to be relatively unharmed...these are rather unorthodox lead tank designs for South Asian scenario. T-14 is similar in size to UK Challenger and US Abrams tanks, but more capable and modern. Also 25% lighter and very nimble.








Ahmet Pasha said:


> Turk vendors like Aselsan etc were offering expertise and a leopard like turret design.
> 
> But HIT uncles probably gonna fall right back into Iron Brother lap.



You do have a valid point. VT4 and VT5....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal9

More detail on the T-14/15, though a bit dated.









New Russian Armor - First analysis: Armata - Defense Update:


The Russian Ministry of Defense publicly presenting today the first members of the Armata family of heavy armored vehicles - the T-14 main battle tank and T-15 armored infantry fighting vehicle. The two vehicles are designed to become the spearhead of armored formations of the Russian Army...




defense-update.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

Bilal9 said:


> Since T90 is a 3rd generation tank, most would agree that T-14 is a 4th generation Tank, not a 3+, but that is my opinion.
> 
> T-14 (and the T-15, which is a similar IFV, also the wheeled APC 'Bumerang', and the T-16 'BREM') are radical design revisions from traditional tank/IFV design, with an automatic robotic loader and unmanned turret and the three crew housed way out front in a safe 'pod'. If the tank gets hit, and cooks off the ammo in the main compartment, the crew is supposed to be relatively unharmed...these are rather unorthodox lead tank designs for South Asian scenario. T-14 is similar in size to UK Challenger and US Abrams tanks, but more capable and modern. Also 25% lighter and very nimble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do have a valid point. VT4 and VT5....


Thanks for detial info.

You mentioned VT5, is Pakistan is interested in them too

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mrc

What about 130mm smooth bore gun as tested by Germans recently.

Any advantages? Pak shud b looking into this. Larger bore shells may make alot of difference


----------



## Packee

Mrc said:


> What about 130mm smooth bore gun as tested by Germans recently.
> 
> Any advantages? Pak shud b looking into this. Larger bore shells may make alot of difference


Unnecessary for us at the moment, the 130mm gun is mainly due to the Russians Armata series of vehicles, everyone has tested larger caliber guns at some point. There was a 140mm Abrams, Leopard, Leclerc and 152 mm Gun the Russians tested, even the Chinese tested something similar, but it they were all unnecessary since the 120mm and 125mm got the job done just fine and they had alot of ammunition for it. If India ends up buy the T-14 or something that'd need a larger caliber gun, then we'd look into it, but for now the 125mm gets the job done and most of our tanks share the same ammo types which is a advantage and another thing the Arjun syffers from(120mm Rifled canon).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal9

Scorpiooo said:


> Thanks for detial info.
> 
> You mentioned VT5, is Pakistan is interested in them too



That is a very good question to ask Pakistani brothers...I'm sorry, I don't really know.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## imranyounus

There were experiment with larger guns on tanks but practically we see demand growing for lighter tanks. So what future holds is still unclear.


----------



## Raja Porus

Bilal9 said:


> That is a very good question to ask Pakistani brothers...I'm sorry, I don't really know.


I don't think PA will ever go for them, for Afghanistan-Iran border we can use type 59/69s and AZs, after replacement as well, so no need of wasting money, better get vt4s or spend money on manufacturing AK1/2s

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bilal9

Desert Fox 1 said:


> I don't think PA will ever go for them, for Afghanistan-Iran border we can use type 59/69s and AZs, after replacement as well, so no need of wasting money, better get vt4s or spend money on manufacturing AK1/2s



Correct brother - VT4 has been inducted by Pakistan or being trialed at least. Not sure about the website report.

https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/09/23/pakistan-inducts-vt-4-main-battle-tank/

For Bangladesh VT5 was ordered two years ago and has either been delivered or is close to delivery (ETA was Mid 2020). VT5 is of course smaller and lighter tank (36t), and much lighter than VT4 but those delivered to Bangladesh are different from PLA specs AFAIK. Bangladesh VT5s reportedly include 125mm gun and Western Sensors and Scopes. VT5 was ordered primarily to traverse mountainous terrain in our hill tracts area bordering Myanmar. VT5 is much more suited to that terrain than say VT4 or any other 50 plus ton tank.

As VT5 does not possess amphibious capability, there is strong likelihood that Bangladesh may also order ZBD 2000 amphibious tank, given 80% of our terrain is low lying land just above sea level.

Sorry for the off-topic segway.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Raja Porus

Bilal9 said:


> Correct brother - VT4 has been inducted by Pakistan or being trialed at least. Not sure about the website report.
> 
> https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/09/23/pakistan-inducts-vt-4-main-battle-tank/
> 
> For Bangladesh VT5 was ordered two years ago and has either been delivered or is close to delivery (ETA was Mid 2020). VT5 is of course smaller and lighter tank (36t), and much lighter than VT4 but those delivered to Bangladesh are different from PLA specs AFAIK. Bangladesh VT5s reportedly include 125mm gun and Western Sensors and Scopes. VT5 was ordered primarily to traverse mountainous terrain in our hill tracts area bordering Myanmar. VT5 is much more suited to that terrain than say VT4 or any other 50 plus ton tank.
> 
> As VT5 does not possess amphibious capability, there is strong likelihood that Bangladesh may also order ZBD 2000 amphibious tank, given 80% of our terrain is low lying land just above sea level.
> 
> Sorry for the off-topic segway.


PA has inducted vt4s in to the 6 lancers, moreover weren't the vt5s delivered to you as well

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal9

Desert Fox 1 said:


> PA has inducted vt4s in to the 6 lancers, moreover weren't the vt5s delivered to you as well



They were confirmed as ordered, and SIPRI confirmed this as well. But there was as yet no proof of delivery, unless @Ronin bhai or @Michael Corleone bhai knows something I don't.

I remember seeing an image claiming as such, but that later turned out to be a VT4 being unloaded in Karachi Port.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Raja Porus

Bilal9 said:


> They were confirmed as ordered, and SIPRI confirmed this as well. But there was as yet no proof of delivery, unless @Ronin bhai or @Michael Corleone bhai knows something I don't.
> 
> I remember seeing an image claiming as such, but that later turned out to be a VT4 being unloaded in Karachi Port.


For vt4s here you go:
DG ISPR (@OfficialDGISPR) Tweeted:
#COAS visited Field Firing Ranges near Jhelum today to witness demonstration of state of the art, Chinese origin third generation Main Battle Tank VT-4. This potent war fighting machine will be employed in offensive role by strike formations after induction (1/5) https://t.co/csQv54XVDj

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1308413990922579968I also saw the picture you are talking about and some said that it was a picture of vt5 in Bangladesh😆. He was wrong though

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Reichmarshal

Bobby's own

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Raja Porus

Bilal9 said:


> Correct brother - VT4 has been inducted by Pakistan or being trialed at least. Not sure about the website report.
> 
> https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/09/23/pakistan-inducts-vt-4-main-battle-tank/
> 
> For Bangladesh VT5 was ordered two years ago and has either been delivered or is close to delivery (ETA was Mid 2020). VT5 is of course smaller and lighter tank (36t), and much lighter than VT4 but those delivered to Bangladesh are different from PLA specs AFAIK. Bangladesh VT5s reportedly include 125mm gun and Western Sensors and Scopes. VT5 was ordered primarily to traverse mountainous terrain in our hill tracts area bordering Myanmar. VT5 is much more suited to that terrain than say VT4 or any other 50 plus ton tank.
> 
> As VT5 does not possess amphibious capability, there is strong likelihood that Bangladesh may also order ZBD 2000 amphibious tank, given 80% of our terrain is low lying land just above sea level.
> 
> Sorry for the off-topic segway.


I personally think that if they would have to buy one amphibious tank as well then light tanks should have been scrapped. Instead they should have gone for some heavier ones such as Pakistani AKs or Chinese VT4 or type 99. Because two light tanks don't go well


Reichmarshal said:


> Bobby's own


What sir, 6th lancers, you're talking about? Babar iftikhars own

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Ballistic Fire Control Computer (FCC) For Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Fire Control Systems (FCSs) plays a critical role in the battle effectiveness of a Main Battle Tank (MBT) whether it is high first-round-hit-probability, ballistic solution computation for projectile trajectory, or moving target engagement. FCS comprises of Fire Control Computer (FCC), sensors, and gun controller. Fire control computer computes the elevation and azimuth (pitch and yaw axis) angles, based on the ballistic algorithm. A 32-Bit ARM processor based FCC for 125mm smoothbore gun MBT has been designed, developed and tested. The development is a migration from traditional 8-Bit or 16-Bit controllers to a 32-Bit ARM processor, making the solution more efficient and effective. The developed solution is cost-effective and easily configurable to wide variety of Armoured Fighting Vehicles (AFVs). The ARM Cortex-M4 processor provides over 100 ballistic computational updates per second. 
FCC computes the ballistic solution for static and moving targets. The FCC was fitted on a MBT and was rigorously field tested by firing armoured piercing (AP) shells at a range of 2000 meters. The accuracy for the ballistic computations by the fire control computer was within allowed error range. This paper presents the complete development cycle of fire control computer, implementation of ballistic algorithm, and testing of developed system

Reactions: Like Like:
8 | Love Love:
2


----------



## Dazzler

With enhancements

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Scorpiooo

Dazzler said:


> With enhancements
> 
> View attachment 759277


Model of AK 2 ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zarvan

I don't what is being done but I really hope Pakistan brings in Turkey and basically develops a 55 tone version of Altay with 1500 HP engine most likely from Ukraine.

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## iLION12345_1

Zarvan said:


> I don't what is being done but I really hope Pakistan brings in Turkey and basically develops a 55 tone version of Altay with 1500 HP engine most likely from Ukraine.


Not a good idea…not happening either. Too drastic of a change, we’re tying to upgrade a tank, not build a new one. AK-1 is already really good, doesn’t need a full redesign yet, just a better turret, which seems to be planned. Hull armor can be increased without changing the design.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Packee

Zarvan said:


> I don't what is being done but I really hope Pakistan brings in Turkey and basically develops a 55 tone version of Altay with 1500 HP engine most likely from Ukraine.


Basically a K2 with a Ukrainian engine, since Pak army would prefer 3 man crews similar to the Koreans and its Autoloader is pretty good.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Scorpiooo

Zarvan said:


> I don't what is being done but I really hope Pakistan brings in Turkey and basically develops a 55 tone version of Altay with 1500 HP engine most likely from Ukraine.


Too much expensive tank for us, PA cant afford

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KaiserX

Why doesnt the PA invest in tank carriers? The Chinese have a few designs based off the old Type 59 and even the new VT4s that the PA is getting:






VN11 Heavy Armored Personel Carrier | Military-Today.com


The VN11 is a new Chinese heavy armored personnel carrier. It was converted from obsolete Type 59 medium tank. The VN11 was first publicly revealed in 2017 and is mainly aimed at export customers.



www.military-today.com










China unveils heavy IFV concept


China North Industries Corporation (Norinco) revealed a concept for a heavy infantry fighting vehicle (HIFV) based on the VT4 export main battle tank (MBT) at the...



www.janes.com





Even a few hundred of these would make a huge difference to the capabilities of our mechanized divisions. These also have the added benefit of having the engines placed in the front of the tank adding far greater crew protection/survivability.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## iLION12345_1

KaiserX said:


> Why doesnt the PA invest in tank carriers? The Chinese have a few designs based off the old Type 59 and even the new VT4s that the PA is getting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VN11 Heavy Armored Personel Carrier | Military-Today.com
> 
> 
> The VN11 is a new Chinese heavy armored personnel carrier. It was converted from obsolete Type 59 medium tank. The VN11 was first publicly revealed in 2017 and is mainly aimed at export customers.
> 
> 
> 
> www.military-today.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China unveils heavy IFV concept
> 
> 
> China North Industries Corporation (Norinco) revealed a concept for a heavy infantry fighting vehicle (HIFV) based on the VT4 export main battle tank (MBT) at the...
> 
> 
> 
> www.janes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even a few hundred of these would make a huge difference to the capabilities of our mechanized divisions. These also have the added benefit of having the engines placed in the front of the tank adding far greater crew protection/survivability.


Down to Doctrine, PA doesn’t have much need for IFVs in its doctrine, especially not ones this expensive and large. If PA had to money to get thousands and thousands of these to use in armored assaults then maybe it would be possible, but just getting a few would mean they’d be out of place in the doctrine of light-armored APCs that are just used to deliver troops to their objective and are not meant to be used as fighting vehicles. China can afford this, Pakistan sadly cannot, even if they would make great force multipliers.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Scorpiooo said:


> Model of AK 2 ?


Yes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khanate

Dazzler said:


> Ballistic Fire Control Computer (FCC) For Main Battle Tank (MBT)
> 
> Fire Control Systems (FCSs) plays a critical role in the battle effectiveness of a Main Battle Tank (MBT) whether it is high first-round-hit-probability, ballistic solution computation for projectile trajectory, or moving target engagement. FCS comprises of Fire Control Computer (FCC), sensors, and gun controller. Fire control computer computes the elevation and azimuth (pitch and yaw axis) angles, based on the ballistic algorithm. A 32-Bit ARM processor based FCC for 125mm smoothbore gun MBT has been designed, developed and tested. The development is a migration from traditional 8-Bit or 16-Bit controllers to a 32-Bit ARM processor, making the solution more efficient and effective. The developed solution is cost-effective and easily configurable to wide variety of Armoured Fighting Vehicles (AFVs). The ARM Cortex-M4 processor provides over 100 ballistic computational updates per second.
> FCC computes the ballistic solution for static and moving targets. The FCC was fitted on a MBT and was rigorously field tested by firing armoured piercing (AP) shells at a range of 2000 meters. The accuracy for the ballistic computations by the fire control computer was within allowed error range. This paper presents the complete development cycle of fire control computer, implementation of ballistic algorithm, and testing of developed system
> 
> View attachment 749266
> View attachment 749267
> View attachment 749268
> 
> 
> View attachment 749271





Are there any plans for an active protection system on AK-2? Possibly one that can make its way to AK-1?


----------



## RAMPAGE

Dazzler said:


> With enhancements
> 
> View attachment 759277


What do you see? We will need someone with a trained eye to explain what we see here.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## iLION12345_1

Khanate said:


> Are there any plans for an active protection system on AK-2? Possibly one that can make its way to AK-1?


PA has tested Both Ukrainian Zalson and Chinese GL-5. Maybe it will consider one for both VT-4 and AK-2, maybe it will buy both separately for them. I wouldn’t really count on them making it a standard thing on all tanks just yet because of how cost prohibitive it might become, but PA is surely interested in an APS for the VT-4 and “AK-2” (The AK model that’s supposed to be getting tech from VT-4, we don’t know if it’ll be called AK-2 yet.)
If PA decides to fully commit to APS then it could trickle down to AK-1 and older models, but I don’t think PA will purchase that many.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HRK

iLION12345_1 said:


> (The AK model that’s supposed to be getting tech from VT-4, we don’t know if it’ll be called AK-2 yet.)


Pakistan hold IPR of AK series, therefore it seems illogical that Pakistan would drop AK program in favour of other tank which may not provide us the luxury of holding IPR.

Common sense dictates that we may keep trying to get systems or subsystems from abroad in our effort to absorb as much technology which would be available in market and to keep our platform up-to-date but closure or cancelation of AK program seems impossible unless some other programs is inatiated which may provide us the luxury of owing the IPR.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## iLION12345_1

HRK said:


> Pakistan hold IPR of AK series, therefore it seems illogical that Pakistan would drop AK program in favour of other tank which may not provide us the luxury of holding IPR.
> 
> Common sense dictates that we may keep trying to get systems or subsystems from abroad in our effort to absorb as much technology which would be available in market and to keep our platform up-to-date but closure or cancelation of AK program seems impossible unless some other programs is inatiated which may provide us the luxury of owing the IPR.


I didn’t imply any cancellation or end of the AK project, I meant that they might not name it “AK-2” and instead go for something like “AK-1A” because they may not intend to change the design of the tank, just add some missing technology. Though I actually hope they change the design and keep taking it forward too.

I’m going off what the HIT chairman said. He said that the next iteration of the AK may be using tech from the VT-4. Now that is a very open ended statement, It can mean they’re still trying to get ToT for the exact parts of the VT-4 they want, basically whatever’s missing in AK-1. Or it can mean they’re just developing technology to use on the AK that is used on the VT-4. For example, VT-4 uses a CITV, They want to put a CITV on The next AK, but they’re making it themselves. Or it could end up just not using said tech, but the upgrade will have to be along the lines of VT-4 anyways, as that seems like the natural progression for the AK series. VT-4 is one example of what the Next major AK can be, it’s the same design after all.
Pakistan could make its own tank analogous to it but with more local and non Chinese tech. just as we did with Al-Khalid vs VT-1, Al-Khalid-1 vs VT-1A.

As for foreign versus local tech;
They’ve tested multiple foreign ERA, Polish ERAWA, Ukrainian DUPLET, Chinese FY4 for the Next AK. The engine will also most likely come from China, or so I hope, the 6TD-3 is an upgrade over the 6TD-2E but not to the level of the Chinese 150HB, and using a Chinese engine will ease logistics.
They’ve tested GL-5 and Zalson APS. Granted these are on the more complex side of tank technology, something Pakistan would have trouble making (for the APS and engine at least, but better local ERA could have been made).
There is also credit due to them for making a Good Auto-loader and FCS/GCS for the AK-1 that they will probably reuse. Maybe there is still room for improvement in the base armor Too (composite and steel layout etc), which can be done by HIT, and surely a CITV, an auto-bore sight system, laser warning system etc can be made locally. Most of the stuff will remain the same as it’s just an upgrade and not a new tank (not that it’s needed, AK-1 is already good in most metrics).

Though the Bottom line is, unless they greatly redesign the AK Hull and turret as a whole, the tank cannot be reaslticslly taken much further, even the VT-4 is limited in its protection capabilities by its design, which is just the same as AK with a new turret (and not really a good turret redesign at that, the frontal Arc is no bigger) Hence I feel this upcoming Iteration could be the last of this AK series. (They could keep the name going though). Wether HIT designs a new Pakistani tank after that depends on the PAs requirements.
Me and Bilal had a discussion about this before here: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/al-khalid-tank-type-90-iim-mbt-2000-information-pool.127686/page-101

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Akh1112

Dazzler said:


> With enhancements
> 
> View attachment 759277


Where did you find this


----------



## HRK

Akh1112 said:


> Where did you find this


Model in the office of Minister of Defence Production

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakistan Ka Beta

Nice


----------

