# Pakistan Tourism: Information Desk



## Arsalan

Hi all,
Good to have a dedicated section for Pakistan tourism. While there is lots of valuable information and breath taking images being shared i feel the need for this thread. The purpose of this is to ask any question related to you future tour plans. You are visiting some place and you need to know about what you need to take there, what are the road conditions, travel times, accommodations etc. Ask such questions about your required destinations.

Please refrain from post information about various tourists spots just because you like them. There is most probable a thread already running about that spot or you may go ahead and open one. Let us keep the discussion here to question answers and information required to plan your trips.

I request all the members who have the information about the spot someone asks for to please come up and share it. You will be helping someone.

Regards!

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## Arsalan

And now,, why i really felt the need for this thread. Actually i myself need some info. We are planning a trip to fairy meadows and need to know two main things:


What is the situation of accomodations there? Will be get tents or huts there without any problem or do we need to carry our own. I will prefer to rent a hut or tent there and do not carry my own
What about food? is food available there? I know there are no restaurants but still what can you get to eat up there?
Anyone with this information please help me out. I need this fast. 

@WAJsal i need to tag you. I know you have not been there but can you please tag a few you know to have been to fairy meadows? May be then can help. Please do so if you can think of any and do try to think of someone for me 

@ghazi52 you seem to be quite active in this section, any info? @pakistanipower ??

@Slav Defence @TaimiKhan

You were to first to visit this thread ma'am @Spring Onion , have any info?



Regards!

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## WAJsal

Arsalan said:


> And now,, why i really felt the need for this thread. Actually i myself need some info. We are planning a trip to fairy meadows and need to know two main things:
> 
> 
> What is the situation of accomodations there? Will be get tents or huts there without any problem or do we need to carry our own. I will prefer to rent a hut or tent there and do not carry my own
> What about food? is food available there? I know there are no restaurants but still what can you get to eat up there?
> Anyone with this information please help me out. I need this fast.
> 
> @WAJsal i need to tag you. I know you have not been there but can you please tag a few you know to have been to fairy meadows? May be then can help. Please do so if you can think of any and do try to think of someone for me
> 
> Regards!


There are cottages. Google search Fairy Meadow Cottages, other services available don't worry...
http://fairymeadowscottage.com/
https://www.facebook.com/Fairy-Meadows-Cottages-102201625530/



Arsalan said:


> What is the situation of accomodations there? Will be get tents or huts there without any problem or do we need to carry our own. I will prefer to rent a hut or tent there and do not carry my own
> 
> What about food? is food available there? I know there are no restaurants but still what can you get to eat up there?


Arey bhia...It's a popular tourist site..
https://defence.pk/threads/aerial-view-of-northern-pakistan.434223/#post-8378724

@krash , can provide other necessary details if needed.

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## Arsalan

WAJsal said:


> There are cottages. Google search Fairy Meadow Cottages, other services available don't worry...
> http://fairymeadowscottage.com/
> https://www.facebook.com/Fairy-Meadows-Cottages-102201625530/
> 
> 
> Arey bhia...It's a popular tourist site..
> https://defence.pk/threads/aerial-view-of-northern-pakistan.434223/#post-8378724
> 
> @krash , can provide other necessary details if needed.


 I have studied the details but it is good to know the ground realities from someone who have visited the place in person. Various sites to give some details of the situation there but the authenticity can be judged that there is one site that gives the travel time from Mansehra to Chillas as 5 hours . It is easily much more than this via MNJC road. So i think it will be appropriate to ask someone how have "been there done that"  
Otherwise i will be traveling with friends (not family) so will manage even if we do not get any such facility 

@krash are you the person?

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## krash

Arsalan said:


> What is the situation of accomodations there? Will be get tents or huts there without any problem or do we need to carry our own. I will prefer to rent a hut or tent there and do not carry my own



You won't find any four, five-star lodging there but it is not wild either. You can get huts and tents on rent depending on how you'd prefer to do it. Plenty of hut sites have been built there and all of them offer tents and tenting space for rent. Some huts are doable, others are not bad and they are all pretty cheap. Do try to book them in advance though, it's tourist season there. You'll also have a couple of khokas to buy snacks from; chips, biscuits, soft drinks, etc. These khokas also have satellite phones and provide phone services for nominal charges. Of course you can try taking a UPhone and a Telenor sim and try your luck with the signals at 'call point' but I always prefer the khoka near my hut rather than the 10-15 min walk to the call point (the view from there though is pretty spectacular).




Arsalan said:


> What about food? is food available there? I know there are no restaurants but still what can you get to eat up there?
> Anyone with this information please help me out. I need this fast.



Of course. Every hut site has its cooks, kitchen and dinning room; tea, meals, snacks, etc. available almost round the clock. However, the food is not great and pretty expensive (that's how they make money) but it's easily doable, especially when your group is just friends. You even get food at the Base Camp View Point, albeit a plate of mash ki daal will cost you around Rs.600.





Arsalan said:


> I have studied the details but it is good to know the ground realities from someone who have visited the place in person. Various sites to give some details of the situation there but the authenticity can be judged that there is one site that gives the travel time from Mansehra to Chillas as 5 hours . It is easily much more than this via MNJC road. So i think it will be appropriate to ask someone how have "been there done that"
> Otherwise i will be traveling with friends (not family) so will manage even if we do not get any such facility
> 
> @krash are you the person?



You know it.


I'll give you some pointers off the top of my head.

Chillas and Diamir (unbeknownst to many) are EXTREMELY hot during this time of the year. Unless it's overcast it'll be pretty unbearable, do not take this lightly. So take a car with good air conditioning. I'm assuming you'll take the Naran route over the Babusar Pass? If not, then do so. This way you'll have good weather and temps from Mansehra till Babusar and then only 2-3 hours of travel time from Babusar to Raikot, through Chillas and Diamir's heat. You'll need this bearable drive because you'll be trekking pretty soon.

Next, try to reach Raikot early in the morning, there are multiple reasons for this. Firstly, the drive, due to reasons mentioned above, becomes tolerable. There is just one hotel at the bridge ("Shangrila Hotel & Restaurant", original no?) and it does not have electricity very often, so usually no cold water or reprieve from the heat there either. You should have a hearty breakfast/brunch here because the trek ahead is 4-6 hrs long (depending on how good you are) and will not offer any food (except at one shabby little khoka, but I'll get to it later). Do not listen to the guides and locals when they say that the trek is only an hour and a half long. Since you wouldn't have had any phone signals since leaving Naran, it would also be a good idea to call your hut guy from this hotel to confirm your arrival and rendezvous. Since it's your first time, I'd advise asking the hut guy before hand to arrange a guide (and porters if need be) to accompany you guys on the trek, from jeep point onwards at least (although the trek is very straightforward, non-technical and easy). You'll hire a jeep from the Hotel's parking lot which will take you up till the Jeep Point. The jeeps usually don't run mid-day during this season because you just can't begin your trek in that heat. So again either you arrive early in the morning or wait till around 3-4pm to leave the hotel. I'd again advise choosing the early morning window because you do not want to be trekking in the dark. You also cannot trek on empty stomachs and if you don't get a chance to eat at the Shangrila Hotel then there is a khoka sort of a restaurant 15, 20min after you get off your jeep, but this will be your last chance since there is nothing for another 4-5 hours until you reach Fairy Meadows. So arrive early at Raikot, have a good breakfast, take the 1.5 hr long jeep ride to Jeep Point, start your trek and climb up into cooler climate before mid-day.

Lastly, the local jeep and hut operators can be a bit iffy at times (recent commercialisation in a historically downtrodden area and what not), so try not to depend too much on them and verbally confirm all arrangements exactly beforehand, e.g. rent, food prices, etc., etc. Do make the 1.5-2 hr trek to the base camp view point, it's pretty cool. Apart from that have fun, it's not some extreme trip, it's pretty tame. Lemme know if you have any other questions.

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## Arsalan

Well that was very detailed, thanks a lot. 

I will try and share all the plan with you so perhaps you can help me iron it out.



krash said:


> You won't find any four, five-star lodging there but it is not wild either. You can get huts and tents on rent depending on how you'd prefer to do it. Plenty of hut sites have been built there and all of them offer tents and tenting space for rent. Some huts are doable, others are not bad and they are all pretty cheap. Do try to book them in advance though, it's tourist season there. You'll also have a couple of khokas to buy snacks from; chips, biscuits, soft drinks, etc. These khokas also have satellite phones and provide phone services for nominal charges. Of course you can try taking a UPhone and a Telenor sim and try your luck with the signals at 'call point' but I always prefer the khoka near my hut rather than the 10-15 min walk to the call point (the view from there though is pretty spectacular).
> 
> Of course. Every hut site has its cooks, kitchen and dinning room; tea, meals, snacks, etc. available almost round the clock. However, the food is not great and pretty expensive (that's how they make money) but it's easily doable, especially when your group is just friends. You even get food at the Base Camp View Point, albeit a plate of mash ki daal will cost you around Rs.600.


Yup i just checked the details shared by @WAJsal as well. I already knew that the huts and permanent camps but was not sure how easy will it be to get some space available. Now checked some contacts on the internet and will ring them tomorrow try to get advance booking. If you have been there a there is someone you deal with let me know and i can ask him to book space for us. Surely we wont be looking for 4 or 5 stars,,  as told, it is a group of friends and we are ok with whatever we can manage to get there.  ONLY FOOD was concern but good to know that some help will be available. Plus we may also take a stove with us and try some cooking as well. 



> You know it.
> 
> I'll give you some pointers off the top of my head.
> 
> Chillas and Diamir (unbeknownst to many) are EXTREMELY hot during this time of the year. Unless it's overcast it'll be pretty unbearable, do not take this lightly. So take a car with good air conditioning. I'm assuming you'll take the Naran route over the Babusar Pass? If not, then do so. This way you'll have good weather and temps from Mansehra till Babusar and then only 2-3 hours of travel time from Babusar to Raikot, through Chillas and Diamir's heat. You'll need this bearable drive because you'll be trekking pretty soon.


Yup the idea is to take the Babusar route. The only problem that may make us change our minds is the traffic situation up ahead. Well have a final check when we reach Mansehra. If roods are open in the Eid rush time we wil surely opt for MNJC.



> Next, try to reach Raikot early in the morning, there are multiple reasons for this. Firstly, the drive, due to reasons mentioned above, becomes tolerable. There is just one hotel at the bridge ("Shangrila Hotel & Restaurant", original no?) and it does not have electricity very often, so usually no cold water or reprieve from the heat there either. You should have a hearty breakfast/brunch here because the trek ahead is 4-6 hrs long (depending on how good you are) and will not offer any food (except at one shabby little khoka, but I'll get to it later). Do not listen to the guides and locals when they say that the trek is only an hour and a half long. Since you wouldn't have had any phone signals since leaving Naran, it would also be a good idea to call your hut guy from this hotel to confirm your arrival and rendezvous. Since it's your first time, I'd advise asking the hut guy before hand to arrange a guide (and porters if need be) to accompany you guys on the trek, from jeep point onwards at least (although the trek is very straightforward, non-technical and easy). You'll hire a jeep from the Hotel's parking lot which will take you up till the Jeep Point. The jeeps usually don't run mid-day during this season because you just can't begin your trek in that heat. So again either you arrive early in the morning or wait till around 3-4pm to leave the hotel. I'd again advise choosing the early morning window because you do not want to be trekking in the dark. You also cannot trek on empty stomachs and if you don't get a chance to eat at the Shangrila Hotel then there is a khoka sort of a restaurant 15, 20min after you get off your jeep, but this will be your last chance since there is nothing for another 4-5 hours until you reach Fairy Meadows. So arrive early at Raikot, have a good breakfast, take the 1.5 hr long jeep ride to Jeep Point, start your trek and climb up into cooler climate before mid-day.


Well noted. The idea is to spend a nigh in Chilas or Raikot and travel to Fairy Meadows early in the morning. Reason is that we will be traveling from Lahore and Faisalabad so it suites us to start at night, reach Mansehra early morning, get to Chilas in the afternoon and Raikot by evening, spend the night and leave for fairy meadows early morning. Makes sense right?



> Lastly, the local jeep and hut operators can be a bit iffy at times (recent commercialisation in a historically downtrodden area and what not), so try not to depend too much on them and verbally confirm all arrangements exactly beforehand, e.g. rent, food prices, etc., etc. Do make the 1.5-2 hr trek to the base camp view point, it's pretty cool. Apart from that have fun, it's not some extreme trip, it's pretty tame. Lemme know if you have any other questions.
> .


Yeah i know that. Have had plenty of experience with them  It is just Fairy Meadows is a first time else have not left much spots to explore in Kaghan Valley. It is only after finishing Kaghan valley that we decided to move to the next one  Jeep and porters wont be a problem and will manage that. There are certain things that you do right and they will be your best friends in the area  

Again, if there is a confirmed contact in that area for booking please do share here. 

Thanks again for the detailed reply. That was very helpful.

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## krash

Arsalan said:


> Well that was very detailed, thanks a lot.
> 
> I will try and share all the plan with you so perhaps you can help me iron it out.



Of course, let me know.



Arsalan said:


> Yup i just checked the details shared by @WAJsal as well. I already knew that the huts and permanent camps but was not sure how easy will it be to get some space available. Now checked some contacts on the internet and will ring them tomorrow try to get advance booking. If you have been there a there is someone you deal with let me know and i can ask him to book space for us. Surely we wont be looking for 4 or 5 stars,,  as told, it is a group of friends and we are ok with whatever we can manage to get there.  ONLY FOOD was concern but good to know that some help will be available. Plus we may also take a stove with us and try some cooking as well.



Not a lot of people there whom I'd wanna recommend. My guy left Fairy Meadows a year before, sorry :/



Arsalan said:


> Yup the idea is to take the Babusar route. The only problem that may make us change our minds is the traffic situation up ahead. Well have a final check when we reach Mansehra. If roods are open in the Eid rush time we wil surely opt for MNJC.



Perfect. The traffic won't be a problem except at Naran. Mansehra to Naran should be event-less if you cover this stretch in the first quarter of the day. Although they've built a bypass specifically for this but Naran is still a headache to pass through due to EVERYONE coming to the valley staying there.....expect to waste an hour or two crossing it.The road after Naran is heaven and not a lot of people take it so no problems there. I'm sure you've already seen it all before.









Arsalan said:


> Well noted. The idea is to spend a nigh in Chilas or Raikot and travel to Fairy Meadows early in the morning. Reason is that we will be traveling from Lahore and Faisalabad so it suites us to start at night, reach Mansehra early morning, get to Chilas in the afternoon and Raikot by evening, spend the night and leave for fairy meadows early morning. Makes sense right?



Perfect.



Arsalan said:


> Yeah i know that. Have had plenty of experience with them  It is just Fairy Meadows is a first time else have not left much spots to explore in Kaghan Valley. It is only after finishing Kaghan valley that we decided to move to the next one  Jeep and porters wont be a problem and will manage that. There are certain things that you do right and they will be your best friends in the area



These guys are a notch above. I believe it's because you're not as helpless or as dependant on them anywhere in the Kaghan Valley as you are in Fairy Meadows. But I hope your experience will be awesome.



Arsalan said:


> Again, if there is a confirmed contact in that area for booking please do share here.



I apologize again. I've just had way too many problems with the people I know there and I wouldn't want to hand you over to any of them.

But if you still want the numbers,

Fairy Meadows Lodges: 0300 5772942

Raikot Sarai: 0300 5065407

Fairy Meadows Cottages:

0301 4493725 (Rehmat Ullah)

0300 5053507 (Mir Gul)

0312 4493725 (Farman Ali)

Shangrila Resort at Raikot Bridge,

+(92) 5811 485050
+(92) 5811 485507

The Shangrila guy isn't that bad.



Arsalan said:


> Thanks again for the detailed reply. That was very helpful.



Anytime.

And to spur you on, took this from the signal point. Notice the two different colours of the sky,






ps: I'm sorry for the delayed response, was out of town. Hope it wasn't too late.

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## I.R.A

@Arsalan So did you go there? I went upto Babusar after Eid holidays with all my kids, it was fun they enjoyed it.

I have questions about my next dream Kashmir if anyone could help me with that I would be grateful


Would car do or do I need Jeep, surf etc etc
How many days should suffice so that we feel yes we have explored this area
Which places are best to visit with your growing kids, they enjoy going into water, rafting, hiking and greenery
Condition and cost of hotels and restaurants
What not do when you are there so it does not offend the locals and does not disturb the surroundings.
Though this thread is meant to be asking questions but I would take the liberty to make request that please "When we visit these places, we should take care of whatever little trash we spread there. Actually at most of the spots facilities to remove garbage are not available."

And I would also like to tag another expert @Sulman Badshah who I believe could help answer many questions here.

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## Arsalan

User said:


> @Arsalan So did you go there? I went upto Babusar after Eid holidays with all my kids, it was fun they enjoyed it.
> 
> I have questions about my next dream Kashmir if anyone could help me with that I would be grateful
> 
> 
> Would car do or do I need Jeep, surf etc etc
> How many days should suffice so that we feel yes we have explored this area
> Which places are best to visit with your growing kids, they enjoy going into water, rafting, hiking and greenery
> Condition and cost of hotels and restaurants
> What not do when you are there so it does not offend the locals and does not disturb the surroundings.
> Though this thread is meant to be asking questions but I would take the liberty to make request that please "When we visit these places, we should take care of whatever little trash we spread there. Actually at most of the spots facilities to remove garbage are not available."
> 
> And I would also like to tag another expert @Sulman Badshah who I believe could help answer many questions here.


NO, it all fell apart 
Eid vacations, some friends involved were those who got married this year  Pahly tu josh mein sb maan gy but when time came they all ditched us. IN the end it was me and two other friends who were left and we though it wont be much fun if it is just three of us so dropped the plan for some other time. Have gone to babusar top twice and the journey to that point itself is a great experience.

For Kashmir, it depends which part are you planning to visit? I will suggest that you divide your Kashmir exploration in at least three parts and do it one at a time. It is like exploring Kashmir in three visits at least, each one based on a major spot and spending 4 5 days in that area exploring the lakes and tracks and spots in that zone. Plan for the other part for next year. I have not explored that area yet so i wont be able to give you a detailed plan but it was wise of you to tag Sulman, lets see what he comes up with. 

P.S. I am looking for the summers to pass and will then focus on some area in Punjab, a day or two day trips to spots that we never care about and in most cases, do not even know about. There are many such places which are 
a few hours drive from your place and still we never visit them. Kaghan, Kashmir and Swat are sort of the only spots one thinks about when planning a vacation but i am looking to point out a few places close by which you can think of visiting on a weekend.

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> NO, it all fell apart
> Eid vacations, some friends involved were those who got married this year  Pahly tu josh mein sb maan gy but when time came they all ditched us. IN the end it was me and two other friends who were left and we though it wont be much fun if it is just three of us so dropped the plan for some other time. Have gone to babusar top twice and the journey to that point itself is a great experience.



Jin ki shadi ho gai hay unhay to bhool he jao . Enjoy these days with your non married friends as much as you can then it would be more of doing it for others, chunnu kay pamper rakh liay, munnu ka doodh rakh lia, wahan to sardi ho gi in sab ki jackets rakh lo, and when it comes to the fun part you will be left with chunnu in your arms because he is too small to do that and obviously you have to take care of him while all others enjoy . 



Arsalan said:


> For Kashmir, it depends which part are you planning to visit? I will suggest that you divide your Kashmir exploration in at least three parts and do it one at a time. It is like exploring Kashmir in three visits at least, each one based on a major spot and spending 4 5 days in that area exploring the lakes and tracks and spots in that zone. Plan for the other part for next year. I have not explored that area yet so i wont be able to give you a detailed plan but it was wise of you to tag Sulman, lets see what he comes up with.



I have not decided the places yet, my Kashmiri colleagues suggest Neelam valley, and someone else suggested Toli Peer etc, but I will have to research a bit more and you are right that surely would be covered in more than one trip.



Arsalan said:


> P.S. I am looking for the summers to pass and will then focus on some area in Punjab, a day or two day trips to spots that we never care about and in most cases, do not even know about. There are many such places which are
> a few hours drive from your place and still we never visit them. Kaghan, Kashmir and Swat are sort of the only spots one thinks about when planning a vacation but i am looking to point out a few places close by which you can think of visiting on a weekend.



Yep rightly said, some pictures that Mughal Jee posts here of Punjab are superb really those open fields, mud houses, big trees, tube wells just makes you feel the peace and simplicity those places and residents may hold there.


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## Arsalan

User said:


> Jin ki shadi ho gai hay unhay to bhool he jao . Enjoy these days with your non married friends as much as you can then it would be more of doing it for others, chunnu kay pamper rakh liay, munnu ka doodh rakh lia, wahan to sardi ho gi in sab ki jackets rakh lo, and when it comes to the fun part you will be left with chunnu in your arms because he is too small to do that and obviously you have to take care of him while all others enjoy . .


Lolz, 
well the married ones do manage some time every year but expecting the ones married in March or May was a bit rude of us as well  Bhabhion na he sari umer dil mein rakhni the baat!! 
May be next year but by that time it will be me tied in those chains,, lets see!



> I have not decided the places yet, my Kashmiri colleagues suggest Neelam valley, and someone else suggested Toli Peer etc, but I will have to research a bit more and you are right that surely would be covered in more than one trip.


Sure, do it in multiple trips. Start with a trip to Neelum valley and cover all the spots in that area or try to cover as much as possible.

One trip i can recommend in Kashmir will be a trip to Kotli in Azad Kashmir. It is close the border and there are some epic sites to visit in that area. Tatta pani being one of them, I loved it. Plus the river,, it is simply WOW! I have not seen water of such color ANYWHERE! If you have some relative in army that could be great help as you may get decent accommodation in Kotli and also someone who can guide you to surrounding area!! It is a great place to be in.



> Yep rightly said, some pictures that Mughal Jee posts here of Punjab are superb really those open fields, mud houses, big trees, tube wells just makes you feel the peace and simplicity those places and residents may hold there


There are so many sites to visit as well apart from those fields (they usually look good on camera only  )
Like Kalarkahar, Salt mines, Raj Katas Palace, For Munro, Soon Skasar valley, Cholistan and Fort Darawar! They are mostly a one or two night trip and are worth visiting at least once in you life. After all, it is your country, you should be able to say that you have been there even if it is not that awesome of a place.



User said:


> Jin ki shadi ho gai hay unhay to bhool he jao . Enjoy these days with your non married friends as much as you can then it would be more of doing it for others, chunnu kay pamper rakh liay, munnu ka doodh rakh lia, wahan to sardi ho gi in sab ki jackets rakh lo, and when it comes to the fun part you will be left with chunnu in your arms because he is too small to do that and obviously you have to take care of him while all others enjoy . .


Lolz, 
well the married ones do manage some time every year but expecting the ones married in March or May was a bit rude of us as well  Bhabhion na he sari umer dil mein rakhni the baat!! 
May be next year but by that time it will be me tied in those chains,, lets see!



> I have not decided the places yet, my Kashmiri colleagues suggest Neelam valley, and someone else suggested Toli Peer etc, but I will have to research a bit more and you are right that surely would be covered in more than one trip.


Sure, do it in multiple trips. Start with a trip to Neelum valley and cover all the spots in that area or try to cover as much as possible.

One trip i can recommend in Kashmir will be a trip to Kotli in Azad Kashmir. It is close the border and there are some epic sites to visit in that area. Tatta pani being one of them, I loved it. Plus the river,, it is simply WOW! I have not seen water of such color ANYWHERE! If you have some relative in army that could be great help as you may get decent accommodation in Kotli and also someone who can guide you to surrounding area!! It is a great place to be in.



> Yep rightly said, some pictures that Mughal Jee posts here of Punjab are superb really those open fields, mud houses, big trees, tube wells just makes you feel the peace and simplicity those places and residents may hold there


There are so many sites to visit as well apart from those fields (they usually look good on camera only  )
Like Kalarkahar, Salt mines, Raj Katas Palace, For Munro, Soon Skasar valley, Cholistan and Fort Darawar! They are mostly a one or two night trip and are worth visiting at least once in you life. After all, it is your country, you should be able to say that you have been there even if it is not that awesome of a place.

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> Lolz,
> well the married ones do manage some time every year but expecting the ones married in March or May was a bit rude of us as well  Bhabhion na he sari umer dil mein rakhni the baat!!
> May be next year but by that time it will be me tied in those chains,, lets see!



Those chains make it totally different by the way, you will experience it eventually INSHALLAH 



Arsalan said:


> Sure, do it in multiple trips. Start with a trip to Neelum valley and cover all the spots in that area or try to cover as much as possible.
> 
> One trip i can recommend in Kashmir will be a trip to Kotli in Azad Kashmir. It is close the border and there are some epic sites to visit in that area. Tatta pani being one of them, I loved it. Plus the river,, it is simply WOW! I have not seen water of such color ANYWHERE! If you have some relative in army that could be great help as you may get decent accommodation in Kotli and also someone who can guide you to surrounding area!! It is a great place to be in.



I will check with my brother if he could help a civilian like me.



Arsalan said:


> There are so many sites to visit as well apart from those fields (they usually look good on camera only  )
> Like Kalarkahar, Salt mines, Raj Katas Palace, For Munro, Soon Skasar valley, Cholistan and Fort Darawar! They are mostly a one or two night trip and are worth visiting at least once in you life. After all, it is your country, you should be able to say that you have been there even if it is not that awesome of a place.



Been to Kalarkahar, Salt mines, Raj Katas, Choa Saidan Shah. By the way I had always enjoyed travelling on road to Chakwal from Mandra's side, it always felt so peaceful. That road I think is under construction now and they have cut down those very old the trees that were there on the sides of the road.

The other road that I enjoy travelling on is road to Haripur via Khanpur. Balochistan also holds a different set of beautiful places.

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## Arsalan

User said:


> Those chains make it totally different by the way, you will experience it eventually INSHALLAH
> 
> 
> 
> I will check with my brother if he could help a civilian like me.
> 
> 
> 
> Been to Kalarkahar, Salt mines, Raj Katas, Choa Saidan Shah. By the way I had always enjoyed travelling on road to Chakwal from Mandra's side, it always felt so peaceful. That road I think is under construction now and they have cut down those very old the trees that were there on the sides of the road.
> 
> The other road that I enjoy travelling on is road to Haripur via Khanpur. Balochistan also holds a different set of beautiful places.


Well sir, we must meet sometime  I love traveling through that area. Even on motorway from Kalarkahar to Islamabad the landscape is worth watching! Same for traveling on GT Road from Rawalpindi to Jehlum! If you leave the big road and take a smaller one, i am sure it will be that much more fun. Actually, it is the Potohar region and the landscape here is epic! Some thing like those Australian wallpaper images!!



















*Will need some time (months) but will surely share some worth visiting places with our members here which they can travel to on weekend trips!*

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> Well sir, we must meet sometime  I love traveling through that area. Even on motorway from Kalarkahar to Islamabad the landscape is worth watching! Same for traveling on GT Road from Rawalpindi to Jehlum! If you leave the big road and take a smaller one, i am sure it will be that much more fun. Actually, it is the Potohar region and the landscape here is epic! Some thing like those Australian wallpaper images!!
> 
> *Will need some time (months) but will surely share some worth visiting places with our members here which they can travel to on weekend trips!*



Sure sir if the fate allows we may meet someday . Another similar journey full of such site seeing would be from Lahore to Rawalpindi in a train.

Best of luck with the search, trips and tips

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## krash

User said:


> I have not decided the places yet, my Kashmiri colleagues suggest Neelam valley, and someone else suggested Toli Peer etc, but I will have to research a bit more and you are right that surely would be covered in more than one trip.



Neelum is the place to go, it is the jewel in all of Kashmir. Bagh, Leepa, Kotli, etc. can always come later on.



User said:


> @Arsalan So did you go there? I went upto Babusar after Eid holidays with all my kids, it was fun they enjoyed it.
> 
> I have questions about my next dream Kashmir if anyone could help me with that I would be grateful
> 
> 
> Would car do or do I need Jeep, surf etc etc
> How many days should suffice so that we feel yes we have explored this area
> Which places are best to visit with your growing kids, they enjoy going into water, rafting, hiking and greenery
> Condition and cost of hotels and restaurants
> What not do when you are there so it does not offend the locals and does not disturb the surroundings.
> Though this thread is meant to be asking questions but I would take the liberty to make request that please "When we visit these places, we should take care of whatever little trash we spread there. Actually at most of the spots facilities to remove garbage are not available."
> 
> And I would also like to tag another expert @Sulman Badshah who I believe could help answer many questions here.



I've posted before on Neelum. If you have questions which I didn't cover in the two posts below, let me know.

https://defence.pk/threads/18-reaso...-least-once-in-your-life.430859/#post-8316434

https://defence.pk/threads/18-reaso...-least-once-in-your-life.430859/#post-8417343



Arsalan said:


> NO, it all fell apart
> Eid vacations, some friends involved were those who got married this year  Pahly tu josh mein sb maan gy but when time came they all ditched us. IN the end it was me and two other friends who were left and we though it wont be much fun if it is just three of us so dropped the plan for some other time. Have gone to babusar top twice and the journey to that point itself is a great experience.



That sucks but you should've still gone, IMO. Too many times have I faced the same and never have I backed out of a trip, never have I regretted doing so either. Quite a few times I've even ended up going alone, which has always been awesome.

ps: You just need to marry a travel-nut like yourself, trust me.

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## I.R.A

krash said:


> Neelum is the place to go, it is the jewel in all of Kashmir. Bagh, Leepa, Kotli, etc. can always come later on.
> 
> I've posted before on Neelum. If you have questions which I didn't cover in the two posts below, let me know.
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/18-reaso...-least-once-in-your-life.430859/#post-8316434
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/18-reaso...-least-once-in-your-life.430859/#post-8417343


https://defence.pk/threads/18-reaso...-least-once-in-your-life.430859/#post-8417343

Thank you ................. from the looks of it God willing I will have to wait another 4 years before I manage to visit Neelum and Arang Kel, my younger is two right now and all that trekking to reach that heaven with other two being seven years and four years does not seem possible.  



krash said:


> ps: You just need to marry a travel-nut like yourself, trust me.



Trust me they all become the same after marriage ...................... they are the worst enemies of your friends, the very first casualty are your friends in this war of love.

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## Arsalan

krash said:


> That sucks but you should've still gone, IMO. Too many times have I faced the same and never have I backed out of a trip, never have I regretted doing so either. Quite a few times I've even ended up going alone, which has always been awesome.
> 
> ps: You just need to marry a travel-nut like yourself, trust me.


Well it was actually my idea that two or three of us wont be that much fun but yes you are right and we also knew that it would still be better then dropping it all together! 

As for your future advice the choice have been made and it seem to be fulfilling the "requirement" . Not sure if it will be upto that Fairy Meadows and Deosai mark but Kashmirs and Swats are covered. 
P.S: You think it would be fine traveling to the places i mentioned, like fairy meadows and deosai with family? Fairy Meadows seem do able now as per the information i collected planing this last trip (that got canceled)



User said:


> Thank you ................. from the looks of it God willing I will have to wait another 4 years before I manage to visit Neelum and Arang Kel, my younger is two right now and all that trekking to reach that heaven with other two being seven years and four years does not seem possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Trust me they all become the same after marriage ...................... they are the worst enemies of your friends, the very first casualty are your friends in this war of love.


Neelum wont require any trekking as far as i know. It is accessible by car and you can just drive there. It will be near by places that you may want to visit which require some trekking but you can always drop that. The valley itself is a nice place!

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## krash

User said:


> Thank you ................. from the looks of it God willing I will have to wait another 4 years before I manage to visit Neelum and Arang Kel, my younger is two right now and all that trekking to reach that heaven with other two being seven years and four years does not seem possible.



Anytime 

I concur with Arsalan. The trip that those posts were about has only the Arang Kel trek in it since Shumais wanted to see it. Otherwise it's very tame (although the Arang Kel trek is super tame as well). Everywhere else you reach by car/jeep. You can easily drop Arang Kel and still have a very spectacular family trip.

I got some pretty insane treks as well, if someone is interested.




User said:


> Trust me they all become the same after marriage ...................... they are the worst enemies of your friends, the very first casualty are your friends in this war of love.



Haha true. But families can be pretty adventurous too. I got this bug from my travel-junky parents.



Arsalan said:


> As for your future advice the choice have been made and it seem to be fulfilling the "requirement" . Not sure if it will be upto that Fairy Meadows and Deosai mark but Kashmirs and Swats are covered.



Masha' Allah  If my mom can do it, our bhabi can too!



Arsalan said:


> P.S: You think it would be fine traveling to the places i mentioned, like fairy meadows and deosai with family? Fairy Meadows seem do able now as per the information i collected planing this last trip (that got canceled)



Yes of course. You shouldn't face any problems. I've met a couple of foreign 'regular women' soloing on the Fairy Meadows track. Families on the other hand are a regular occurrence. And don't worry about the length of the trek either, there are mules available for hire on the way. Deosai is even easier, the jeep will take you all the way and then you get purpose-built camp sites for families once there (I've heard reports of some hotels having been built since my last visit there, don't know how they are though).

Gilgit-Baltistan is very hospitable to families. It's usually the lodging which at times can be lacking in some of the smaller towns and villages, with regards to a typical Pakistani family's standards. But then I've had the pleasure of climbing with women who slept on rocks, climbed through ice-fields and carried their own loads.

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## ghazi52



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## WebMaster

Nice thread, i will need the info here and questions coming up to plan my trip.

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> And yes the article was a good one. Have been to the temple as well and it is a must visit if someone is into the archeology.



Hi sir this is quoted from that archaeology thread ..................... I have always wanted to visit those sites in Taxila but could not figure out the directions (call it my incompetence), as soon as I reach the Taxila museum gate I fail to gather any clue which direction should be followed to reach these sites. Plus that Taxila museum it does not seem to be open for general public? Once I tried they did not let me take my car inside and park there. I would appreciate if you could help me with the directions .............. I think this is one of those over the weekend trips I can make with my family.


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## Lucky Breeze

Please some info about Naltar valley.


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## haris.ahmed

Hi guys, long time reader and viewer. First time poster. Salam everyone!

Guys, I've lived in Lahore almost my entire life. My mother, however, spent her childhood in Balochistan and her stories about it have always made it seem like a land of beauty and mystery. Based on what I've witnessed here on this forum, that seems to be true. I yearn to visit Balochistan but am a little unsure about how safe it is etc. etc. I'd greatly appreciate any pointers I could get from you guys. Thanks.


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## Arsalan

User said:


> Hi sir this is quoted from that archaeology thread ..................... I have always wanted to visit those sites in Taxila but could not figure out the directions (call it my incompetence), as soon as I reach the Taxila museum gate I fail to gather any clue which direction should be followed to reach these sites. Plus that Taxila museum it does not seem to be open for general public? Once I tried they did not let me take my car inside and park there. I would appreciate if you could help me with the directions .............. I think this is one of those over the weekend trips I can make with my family.


First things first sir, the taxila museum IS for general public and it is open to all. No worries about that. However parking is not allowed inside the museum. I think this is why you had some trouble. There is this museum parking outside the boundary fence, right in front of the Museum. When you are on Khanpur road going towards the museum the Museum gate will come on your right hand side (i am assuming that you are going there from South side (Pindi/Islamabad) and not coming from north ( Haripur/Abbotabad ) while the parking is on the left hand side, across the road. It is completely secure so no need to worry about it.
*
Things to see: *Obviously, you will want to visit those halls with all the ancient Gandhara civilizations relics on display. If you are with family chances are a guide will approach you himself and show you the two three smaller locked rooms as well (coins and other such things in them). I wont go into details, you can see that all for yourself. However one thing most people miss are the airy laws with ages old tress providing an excellent relief from sun. Do visit those lawns on the back side of Museum (you will normally get out of the halls from the back door so you will be there anyway). Just like most of our things those are not well maintained either but i do love that tree cover and airy space.

*Archaeology Sites: *Taxila is full of such sites but there are two or three important places that you need to visit when on tour. Once you have been there, you can say you have seen all of taxila.  I will try to cover those three and give you simplified directions to get there (they really are simple for me as i spent 26 years of my 30 year life in that place  so if any confusions please do let me know)

*Dharmarajika Stupa:*





This one is just about 10 min drive from the Museum. I am assuming that you know you way to the Museum. To go to the Museum you take the Khanpur road from GT road right after the Margalla hills. That road passes in front of HIT and gets you to Taxila Museum in about 15 min maximum. Right in front of the museum gate you will see a road that goes on your right hand side from that Khanpur road that you originally came from. Take that road, and just in a minute or so you will come at a fork. Take the left hand side road and drive for about 5 minutes and you will come to the stupa site on your left hand side. You won’t miss it because there is a board mentioning it (blue color board). Take the small cement track to your left, park somewhere in shadow and walk to the site (just a few meters) 




It is an amazing place, sits on a mound and there are some huge tress on one side where you can have a nice family picnic. (it is quite an airy place)
*Map



*

* Sirkap Excavations:*
This was the main city in the region at that time and is a must visit when you are on a tour to archeological sites in Taxila. Luckily, this one again is not more then 10 minutes drive from Museum. Direction, simple again!! 
Remember that Khanpur road you took from the GT road to reach the Musems? (the one in Yellow above) just go past the Museum and keep going. Right after the museum you will come to the handicrafts market. Shops on you right hand side displaying Taxila's famous hand made marble and stone pieces. You must buy something as without that the visit is incomplete. A nice 8 to 12 inch tall pair of Onyx vase should cost you around 1500 Rs.





If bhabhi is there she might be interested in:






Anyway, back to the topic you just go past that Museum, through the market and keep driving on the Khanpur road for about 8 minutes. Once you are through that market area and as soon as the shops etc end you will see fields on your right hand side (lower then the road level) and immediately after that a water stream (again it is quite lower than road level so you may not notice it). Please note that this will be after driving for some 7 8 minutes past the Museum. You will cross the bridge on that small stream and immediately on your right hand there is a road going to the site. Again, a huge board clearly marks the spot. Take that road and in a minute you will be at gate of Sirkap. 




Park there, it is secure, be aware of the "guides" you do not need them. Visit that other thread you mentioned about Sirkap and all the information is there. Also those supposed Murthys of Buddah that those guides will try to tell you are NOT FROM THE SITE but from that market you just crossed  you do not need them!! 
Park the car and visit the Sirkap site, the spots inside are marked with boards so you wont have any trouble guiding yourself around. 
https://defence.pk/threads/archaeology-in-pakistan-thread.437102/#post-8459742

One little tip or hint for you. About 300 meters *after* that road on right to Sirkap there is the UET Taxila gate on left side. So if you come across that UET Taxila gate you can be sure that you have missed the Sirkap road  

*Suggestion: *Avoid going there in afternoon and there is not much vegetation/big trees to provide shadow. Evening are perfect as it is a vast plane and you will normally be welcomed by cool breeze. 

*Things to see: *Well the whole site. It takes an hour or so to visit it all. Plus i have already told you about those handicraft shops, you must visit them and you will enjoy that (just be ready to bargain).
Plus in Sirkap, when you enter the site you are on what used to be the main boulevard with houses shops and temples on both sides. IF you just keep going on that track, go past those excavation you will see a small hill right in front of you. It takes about an hour to reach that and on top of that hill are the remains of what used to be the Kings palace at that time. It is quite a long walk and frankly, the place is also a must visit but i am telling you just in case. One good thing about that is that it is on a hill and once on top the view is nice.  (perhaps it was for me only as i could see as i could make sense of! Wont be that great for you, not sure. I liked it however, specially the evenings)

*NOTE:* You can cover all this in a single day tour as you can see all three sites are right next to each other.



WebMaster said:


> Nice thread, i will need the info here and questions coming up to plan my trip.


Sure thing! Shoot them sir, i hope someone here will have all the right answers for you.

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## Arsalan

Lucky Breeze said:


> Please some info about Naltar valley.


I have never been there personally.
@krash @Sulman Badshah Can you help our friend here? 

I will just suggest one thing that if you are going from Punjab etc you need to plan at least a 5 to 6 days trip to properly explore the area. I mean, Naltar is some 40-50 Km from Gilgit which itself is a LONG journey (unless you plan to reach Gilgit by air and get the jeep to Naltar, I wont suggest you do so)
As far as i know, the best approach will be to take the MNJC to Naran, stay there for one night (i am assuming you are traveling somewhere from Punjab). 
Early morning take to jeep via Babusar to Chilas and do not stop there rather keep traveling all the way to Gilgit (Stay is Chilas is no fun). Stay for the night. Next morning take the jeep to Naltar. 

The guys i tagged would hopefully be in better position to guide about Naltar in more details.

NOTE: FRIENDS! IT WILL BE BETTER IF YOU CAN MENTIONED THE AREA YOU ARE FROM/WHERE YOU WILL BE STARTING YOUR JOURNEY FROM. That way we can see how much time is required and the best routes!

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## Arsalan

@ghazi52 
Please let us not make this one of those dozens of other threads where we are just posting videos and images from internet WITHOUT a single word by our self!

We are just answering questions asked about different places and are NOT suggesting trips via those advertisement/promotional videos. Please do not mind and please do share this stuff as well when someone asks for that. We wont like this to be crowded with all the info readily available on internet.

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## Sulman Badshah

Arsalan said:


> I have never been there personally.
> @krash @Sulman Badshah Can you help our friend here?
> 
> I will just suggest one thing that if you are going from Punjab etc you need to plan at least a 5 to 6 days trip to properly explore the area. I mean, Naltar is some 40-50 Km from Gilgit which itself is a LONG journey (unless you plan to reach Gilgit by air and get the jeep to Naltar, I wont suggest you do so)
> As far as i know, the best approach will be to take the MNJC to Naran, stay there for one night (i am assuming you are traveling somewhere from Punjab).
> Early morning take to jeep via Babusar to Chilas and do not stop there rather keep traveling all the way to Gilgit (Stay is Chilas is no fun). Stay for the night. Next morning take the jeep to Naltar.
> 
> The guys i tagged would hopefully be in better position to guide about Naltar in more details.
> 
> NOTE: FRIENDS! IT WILL BE BETTER IF YOU CAN MENTIONED THE AREA YOU ARE FROM/WHERE YOU WILL BE STARTING YOUR JOURNEY FROM. That way we can see how much time is required and the best routes!





Lucky Breeze said:


> Please some info about Naltar valley.




Arsalan is right ...

if you wanna go through road than it is good to take a route of Abbotabad/ mansehra / challas and all the way to gilgit baltistan ... via road it is better to go through northern area own transport (NATCO)

but it will be more comfortable journey if you travel through Airport ... It will be only one hour and fifteen minutes journey to reach in gilgit ...

And going to Naltar from gilgit is easy .. it is just few KM away .. Naltar pine are around 3

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## Lucky Breeze

Arsalan said:


> FRIENDS! IT WILL BE BETTER IF YOU CAN MENTIONED THE AREA YOU ARE FROM/WHERE YOU WILL BE STARTING YOUR JOURNEY FROM. That way we can see how much time is required and the best routes


Islamabad


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## Jaam92

I would love to tell you guys please stop visiting murree 
as it is too much expensive than other area like swat valley or Naran Kaghan and more over it is less beautiful than other areas 
people visiting Murree should avoid this famous hill station, Murree's people are very dirty minded and quarrel loving guys and I have seen too many incidents, even I have seen incident with families where murree's local gather and beat tourists.


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## I.R.A

@Arsalan 

Thanks a lot that information would be really helpful, let's see if we could make it on this coming Sunday INSHALLAH.

And your bhabi already bought this from there , I told you sir I enjoy travelling on that road while going to Abbottabad it is comparatively peaceful and has better views to offer at least for me .


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## 艹艹艹

可以做一个网站，让大家把自己的旅游经验和过程风向到网站，然后再做一下归纳


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## Arsalan

Lucky Breeze said:


> Islamabad


Well then what we have told you so far is ok. You will be traveling from Islamabad so as we suggested it is best you take the Naran-Babusar route. However if you really cannot spare those 5 6 days and need to save a day or two, you can drop the stay in Naran. Leave early morning from Islamabad and you can reach Gilgit by evening/night. I would be a bit hectic but then you can leave for Naltar early morning and spend more time there. 
One thing you should keep in mind is the monsoon! The rain season is in full swing and there will be landslides. The best time is End April/May to Mid July as far as i am concerned.



Mudassar Jalil said:


> I would love to tell you guys please stop visiting murree
> as it is too much expensive than other area like swat valley or Naran Kaghan and more over it is less beautiful than other areas
> people visiting Murree should avoid this famous hill station, Murree's people are very dirty minded and quarrel loving guys and I have seen too many incidents, even I have seen incident with families where murree's local gather and beat tourists.


Murree is full of excellent spots if one knows where to look and how to get there. However the people chose Murree more because of the ease of access than for beauty. It is difficult to plan a day trip or a one night trip to Swat or Naran but you can do so for Murree. 

However i do agree that it is not worth visiting that place anymore (especially if you are not aware of some of the relatively peaceful spots) as there is so much public and pollution there now. It is not because it lack in natural beauty but because we humans have spoiled it. Also you are right in saying that it is quite expensive compered to some of those other places.

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> The rain season is in full swing and there will be landslides. The best time is End April/May to Mid July as far as i am concerned.



We experienced it on our way back and believe me its not nice, rocks falling from above and you counting on your luck to escape them.

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## krash

Lucky Breeze said:


> Please some info about Naltar valley.





Arsalan said:


> I have never been there personally.
> @krash @Sulman Badshah Can you help our friend here?
> 
> I will just suggest one thing that if you are going from Punjab etc you need to plan at least a 5 to 6 days trip to properly explore the area. I mean, Naltar is some 40-50 Km from Gilgit which itself is a LONG journey (unless you plan to reach Gilgit by air and get the jeep to Naltar, I wont suggest you do so)
> As far as i know, the best approach will be to take the MNJC to Naran, stay there for one night (i am assuming you are traveling somewhere from Punjab).
> Early morning take to jeep via Babusar to Chilas and do not stop there rather keep traveling all the way to Gilgit (Stay is Chilas is no fun). Stay for the night. Next morning take the jeep to Naltar.
> 
> The guys i tagged would hopefully be in better position to guide about Naltar in more details.
> 
> NOTE: FRIENDS! IT WILL BE BETTER IF YOU CAN MENTIONED THE AREA YOU ARE FROM/WHERE YOU WILL BE STARTING YOUR JOURNEY FROM. That way we can see how much time is required and the best routes!



Naltar; an alpine oasis in the middle of desolate, barren, rugged and downright terrifying Northern Pakistan. It's also pretty straightforward to visit. First phase is getting till Gilgit; you'll take a flight, drive yourself, hire a Gilgit taxi or take a NATCO bus. If this'll be your first time in Gilgit Baltistan then I seriously recommend hiring the taxi from Pindi. It will cost you anywhere from 16k to 36k one-way, depending on the size of the vehicle and your haggling skills. From Gilgit you'll hire a jeep to take you on the 2 hr ride to Naltar. The air force has it's skiing school there, so if you have contacts withing the military get your self set up in the officers' mess. If not, then you'll have two hotel options and like 3-4 guest house options. The hotels and guest houses aren't spectacular but they are doable and so is the food.

There's a bunch of trekking and medium to medium-high climbing opportunities in the valley. Depending on what sort of a trip you're planning e.g., family, friends, solo, etc., I could recommend you a bunch of worthy spots to visit there. For example, for a medium-ish intensity visit, I'd suggest at least a 4 day stay at the valley with day treks to and night camping at Naltar Lake, Naltar Base Camp, Pakora and Koribort. I'd also suggest adding two extra days in the trip to visit Hunzah, since you'll already be spitting distance from it. One great time to visit the valley is during the winter skiing championships, it's like a festival.

Let me know what specific questions you have for the trip and what sort of a trip you're planning. I'll be better set to help you then.



User said:


> We experienced it on our way back and believe me its not nice, rocks falling from above and you counting on your luck to escape them.



I've lost two windscreens to falling rocks. The second time it was late December  You get used to it.



Mudassar Jalil said:


> I would love to tell you guys please stop visiting murree
> as it is too much expensive than other area like swat valley or Naran Kaghan and more over it is less beautiful than other areas
> people visiting Murree should avoid this famous hill station, Murree's people are very dirty minded and quarrel loving guys and I have seen too many incidents, even I have seen incident with families where murree's local gather and beat tourists.



Murree is a good thing for the rest of the areas. It works as mosquito trap, keeps the other areas safe and clean.



haris.ahmed said:


> Hi guys, long time reader and viewer. First time poster. Salam everyone!
> 
> Guys, I've lived in Lahore almost my entire life. My mother, however, spent her childhood in Balochistan and her stories about it have always made it seem like a land of beauty and mystery. Based on what I've witnessed here on this forum, that seems to be true. I yearn to visit Balochistan but am a little unsure about how safe it is etc. etc. I'd greatly appreciate any pointers I could get from you guys. Thanks.



Welcome mate! Hope you keep us company here for a long time to come.

I have a lot of family in Quetta but have only driven from Karachi till Gawadar while old enough to remember it, and boy do I remember it! Balochistan is awe inspiring, to say the least.

Most of my family left Quetta to settle in Karachi and Lahore when things got rough there. This also being the reason why I haven't yet been able to travel Balochistan the way I want to. Anyway, my impression is that it's not yet the time to visit there but I'm no authority on Balochistan.

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## Arsalan

User said:


> @Arsalan
> 
> Thanks a lot that information would be really helpful, let's see if we could make it on this coming Sunday INSHALLAH.
> 
> And your bhabi already bought this from there , I told you sir I enjoy travelling on that road while going to Abbottabad it is comparatively peaceful and has better views to offer at least for me .


 Oh then you know the road well. Getting to the two places wont be a problem for you at all.

The other site to visit when i said three sites in my initial post was Jaulian. The route to this is a little bit difficult to the first two sites and it is some 30 minutes drive from Museum as well so i am not sure if you will be very interested in visit that. It an ancient Buddhist monastery, a two story building though the second story is no where to be seen anymore. This is an important site when you are out to visit the archeology but since i think you will be on family tour for fun the first two will be good enough for you. Plus Jaulian sits on top of a hill and there are quite a few stairs you have to climb to reach the monastery. You will find plenty of reference to this when you are in Museum (many artifacts there were recovered from Jaulian)

For you the best trip would be Museum/Sirkap and Dharmarajika. I would recommend another trip to Khanpur some day and on that you can check Jaulian as well (it is close to Khanpur). Since you mentioned traveling to Abbotabad via this road, i am sure you are well familiar of Khanpur but just to rekindle a desire to visit that again:

















When/If you have already been to Khanpur tell me this, did you visited this mosque/havalie
It is a pity they demolished a major part of it a few years back (the owners did) and it was a place worth visiting. I am not sure if you have seen the Pakistan air force related drama serial on PTV called Shahpar, some of the scenes were filmed here and the main character of the drama, the PAF pilot brings her girl to show his place and this was THE PLACE. The road leading to this is underwater for most part of the year and that is what they showed in that episode as well where he says that they will have to swim to his home.  
Anyway, the point is, the havalie was great. A bit difficult to find as it is on the other side of the lake and not many people know about it but still. Plus that side is also very peaceful with not many visitors. Ideal place to be with you family and the HUGE grounds on side of the lake are a perfect place to let the kids enjoy themselves. 
*NOTE:* 
NEVER LET THEM GO INTO THE LAKE NOT EVEN TO DIP THERE FEET. It is a natural lakes and just like the terrain you see above water (steep highs and immediate drops) the land under water is the same. You are standing in one feet of water and one step forward you may be in that drop which leaves you in 30 40 feet deep water. Quote dangerous.

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## krash

Arsalan said:


> I would recommend another trip to Khanpur some day and on that you can check Jaulian as well (it is close to Khanpur). Since you mentioned traveling to Abbotabad via this road, i am sure you are well familiar of Khanpur but just to rekindle a desire to visit that again:
> View attachment 321600
> 
> View attachment 321601
> 
> View attachment 321602
> 
> View attachment 321603
> 
> 
> When/If you have already been to Khanpur tell me this, did you visited this mosque/havalie
> It is a pity they demolished a major part of it a few years back (the owners did) and it was a place worth visiting. I am not sure if you have seen the Pakistan air force related drama serial on PTV called Shahpar, some of the scenes were filmed here and the main character of the drama, the PAF pilot brings her girl to show his place and this was THE PLACE. The road leading to this is underwater for most part of the year and that is what they showed in that episode as well where he says that they will have to swim to his home.
> Anyway, the point is, the havalie was great. A bit difficult to find as it is on the other side of the lake and not many people know about it but still. Plus that side is also very peaceful with not many visitors. Ideal place to be with you family and the HUGE grounds on side of the lake are a perfect place to let the kids enjoy themselves.



TBH, I found Khanpur pretty ordinary......except for the cliff-diving. But I guess, as you suggested, it's a nice camping spot for families looking for a leisurely retreat. The rock climbing, jet-skiing, flying boat and cave exploration will keep you busy.

Is that havalie the one in the picture? I thought it was a mosque.....wondered why it was all the way there, far from the settlement. It's on a peninsula of sorts which is a little raised from the banks, correct?



Arsalan said:


> *NOTE:*
> NEVER LET THEM GO INTO THE LAKE NOT EVEN TO DIP THERE FEET. It is a natural lakes and just like the terrain you see above water (steep highs and immediate drops) the land under water is the same. You are standing in one feet of water and one step forward you may be in that drop which leaves you in 30 40 feet deep water. Quote dangerous.
> View attachment 321604



Instead take them cliff-diving! 65 feet straight into the bottomless, cold, dark waters! Kidding aside, I would seriously recommend this to anyone visiting the place. Have you tried it?

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## Arsalan

krash said:


> TBH, I found Khanpur pretty ordinary......except for the cliff-diving. But I guess, as you suggested, it's a nice camping spot for families looking for a leisurely retreat. The rock climbing, jet-skiing, flying boat and cave exploration will keep you busy.
> 
> Is that havalie the one in the picture? I thought it was a mosque.....wondered why it was all the way there, far from the settlement. It's on a peninsula of sorts which is a little raised from the banks, correct?
> 
> Instead take them cliff-diving! 65 feet straight into the bottomless, cold, dark waters! Kidding aside, I would seriously recommend this to anyone visiting the place. Have you tried it?


Well surely it is not something out of the world but as you guessed, it is an ideal picnic spot for families. The landscape is great, the lake is OK and the peace and calm is right up there with the very best of places. Especially if you really know how to get to those spots. The huge grounds are ideal for kids, cricket and bar bq,, especially bar bq. I have enjoyed some of my life's best bonfire and bar bq's on those banks of the lake/dam. Plus there are some places near buy worth visiting if you know where to look for them, I mean, there is one where you drive for about half an hour or so and reach the very start of lake/dame, the area where you can actually make out the river as well. That is great spot, specially if one is into hunting and fishing 

For cliff diving, that is not ON dam/lake but on the spillway side 




This is this big pond made here because when spillway are open water hits this spot with quite some force. It is quite deep and not advised of unless you are a good swimmer.
About having tried that, how does almost every Sunday of summer sounds 
(I am not a good swimmer AT ALL)
We used to go here for fishing or smoking 

Oh and the havalie,
well only part of havalie remains now (at that too was some 3 years ago) Both mosque and Havalie were together and had a common wall. The building you see in the picture is mostly Mosque. Still, getting there is fun itself (when the road is underwater  )
And yes you are correct about the location. To get there you have to keep going on the Khanpur road, go past the dam and the lake and some 2 KM ahead there is this small village road to you left. Take that, go through the village (no problem) and you will end up on the northern bank of the dam. The green grounds in the pictures i shared are that side. You can see the mosque/havalie at some distance.

Also Khanpur these days offer lots of activities like you mentioned. Like boating,, jet ski, para gliding, rock climbing etc. (para gliding is under Pakistan adventure Sports Club and is not running all the time, it is just twice a year i think but not sure)

@User you may choose to visit this (the Khanpur dam/lake) when in the area for the weekend trip. If possible, plan a Bar B Q!  You wont forget that ever! (Keeping in mind the weather, do opt for this option only if it is cloudy and airy/cool)





The yellow one is the Khanpur Road. The Orange is the village road that gets you to far end of the lake. Normally people do not go there so it is a really peaceful place. Mostly people visit the area right next to the Khanpur road in this above image.

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## Jaam92

Arsalan said:


> Well then what we have told you so far is ok. You will be traveling from Islamabad so as we suggested it is best you take the Naran-Babusar route. However if you really cannot spare those 5 6 days and need to save a day or two, you can drop the stay in Naran. Leave early morning from Islamabad and you can reach Gilgit by evening/night. I would be a bit hectic but then you can leave for Naltar early morning and spend more time there.
> One thing you should keep in mind is the monsoon! The rain season is in full swing and there will be landslides. The best time is End April/May to Mid July as far as i am concerned.
> 
> 
> Murree is full of excellent spots if one knows where to look and how to get there. However the people chose Murree more because of the ease of access than for beauty. It is difficult to plan a day trip or a one night trip to Swat or Naran but you can do so for Murree.
> 
> However i do agree that it is not worth visiting that place anymore (especially if you are not aware of some of the relatively peaceful spots) as there is so much public and pollution there now. It is not because it lack in natural beauty but because we humans have spoiled it. Also you are right in saying that it is quite expensive compered to some of those other places.


if someone is coming from Pindi or Islamabad then tourists can visit murree in one day but if someone is coming from Punjab like Bahawalpur, Rahim Yar khan, Lahore Multan or Faislabad then tourist have stay at least 2 day to cover all place like ayubia, new murree etc 
Murree is my Pakistan and other places are also my Pakistan but Local behaviour comparing to other areas murree is worst

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## krash

Arsalan said:


> For cliff diving, that is not ON dam/lake but on the spillway side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is this big pond made here because when spillway are open water hits this spot with quite some force. It is quite deep and not advised of unless you are a good swimmer.
> About having tried that, how does almost every Sunday of summer sounds
> (I am not a good swimmer AT ALL)
> We used to go here for fishing or smoking



We didn't dive there. It was in the lake, had to take a boat from the grassy area to get there. This is exactly where we dove,

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## Arsalan

Mudassar Jalil said:


> if someone is coming from Pindi or Islamabad then tourists can visit murree in one day but if someone is coming from Punjab like Bahawalpur, Rahim Yar khan, Lahore Multan or Faislabad then tourist have stay at least 2 day to cover all place like ayubia, new murree etc
> Murree is my Pakistan and other places are also my Pakistan but Local behaviour comparing to other areas murree is worst


You are right about the attitude of people not being the same as the hospitality you are showered with in, lets say, Swat or even Naran. If i put myself in there shoes, i would say it is because the tens of thousands of tourists coming there have literally destroyed the area. However on the other hand, these same tens of thousands of people are responsibility of virtually all business activity and job/earning in the area as well. It is best to keep a balance between things but it is not always easy and that is the case here as well. Traffic jams and congestion is a common happening on the route now.

As for the tour to Murree, many people from Faisalabad and Lahore do go for a one day trip or may be stay there for one night. They are surely not able to cover all those areas you mentioned but one spot is usually covered. It is usually people with limited earning (sorry for saying this) who cannot afford a long stay but yes, i understand what you are trying to say that it is best for people coming from areas other then Isb/Rwp to at least plan one night stay and many do that as well.



krash said:


> We didn't dive there. It was in the lake, had to take a boat from the grassy area to get there. This is exactly where we dove,


OH this,, yes this is actually where the lake begins, you can say, the far end of the dam/lake. Usually people go there by boat and then there is that one route i mentioned earlier which takes to the place where the lake starts forming from the river. I have been there but never tried THIS  Not here at least!! 

P.S. look at the color of the water here and you say Khanpur is no fun!!! I love this place even though i have been there countless times. As a ref. just to tell you, i moved away from that area and came to Faisalabad permanently some 3 years back but i was in Taxila last December to visit some friends. Still, the was one place we visited twice in my 3 day trip

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## I.R.A

krash said:


> I've lost two windscreens to falling rocks. The second time it was late December  You get used to it.



You may avoid it if you are expert driver for that area but not all the times ................... you must be expert driver with the heart to budget for such losses . I have seen many cars with dents on their front and side doors pity them but again they are normally not used to driving in hilly area.



Arsalan said:


> When/If you have already been to Khanpur tell me this, did you visited this mosque/havalie
> It is a pity they demolished a major part of it a few years back (the owners did) and it was a place worth visiting. I am not sure if you have seen the Pakistan air force related drama serial on PTV called Shahpar, some of the scenes were filmed here and the main character of the drama, the PAF pilot brings her girl to show his place and this was THE PLACE.



No  I just saw it from the other end only. And yes I remember little bit of Tv drama Shahpar . Thanks for the information it would really help exploring Khan pur better.



Arsalan said:


> NEVER LET THEM GO INTO THE LAKE NOT EVEN TO DIP THERE FEET.



Safety always comes first. Thanks for the reminder we have seen too many unfortunate incidents with water taking people's life.



Arsalan said:


> @User you may choose to visit this (the Khanpur dam/lake) when in the area for the weekend trip. If possible, plan a Bar B Q!  You wont forget that ever! (Keeping in mind the weather, do opt for this option only if it is cloudy and airy/cool)



Winters would be the best time to do this I guess.

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## krash

Arsalan said:


> OH this,, yes this is actually where the lake begins, you can say, the far end of the dam/lake. Usually people go there by boat and then there is that one route i mentioned earlier which takes to the place where the lake starts forming from the river. I have been there but never tried THIS  Not here at least!!
> 
> P.S. look at the color of the water here and you say Khanpur is no fun!!! I love this place even though i have been there countless times. As a ref. just to tell you, i moved away from that area and came to Faisalabad permanently some 3 years back but i was in Taxila last December to visit some friends. Still, the was one place we visited twice in my 3 day trip



Hehe, to tell you the truth, the photographer has played with the contrast in that picture  It was a very murky and pale March day. I was there. Two of the girls panicked during the dive and landed incorrectly, one bruised her lowest vertebrate and the other came out with a blood purple thigh. But yes, it is a lot of fun with the activities there. I just meant that the scenery is kinda ordinary. I'm an addict of bigger fixes 

And you must try it! It's a great rush.



User said:


> You may avoid it if you are expert driver for that area but not all the times ................... you must be expert driver with the heart to budget for such losses . I have seen many cars with dents on their front and side doors pity them but again they are normally not used to driving in hilly area.



Oh no bro, all you can do is not think about it and when you do get hit just thank the heavens that it wasn't bigger. It's an occupational hazard, tbh. Rarely do you ever see an incoming rock in time.



User said:


> Winters would be the best time to do this I guess.



Try April. The hills will be greener and the waters warmer.

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## Arsalan

User said:


> No  I just saw it from the other end only. And yes I remember little bit of Tv drama Shahpar . Thanks for the information it would really help exploring Khan pur better.


Sure, you will have good time. Let me know if there is any other info required.




> Safety always comes first. Thanks for the reminder we have seen too many unfortunate incidents with water taking people's life.


Yup!



> Winters would be the best time to do this I guess.


It will be good from September and after that. 
Even these days are nice if it is cloudy. It is an open area breeze is almost a constant. I am mentioning all this because you said that you planed to visit the archeological sites and museum soon, those places will keep you occupied for 3 4 hours max so if you want to spend more time in that area you may consider Khanpur. 


Have you ever been to Wah gardens?
If you do not mind, who old are your kids? (you may choose to reply in private) 



krash said:


> Hehe, to tell you the truth, the photographer has played with the contrast in that picture  It was a very murky and pale March day. I was there. Two of the girls panicked during the dive and landed incorrectly, one bruised her lowest vertebrate and the other came out with a blood purple thigh. But yes, it is a lot of fun with the activities there. I just meant that the scenery is kinda ordinary. I'm an addict of bigger fixes
> 
> And you must try it! It's a great rush..


I did enjoyed this but never in this spot. For us the Spillway was much easier to get to and since we did it like almost every week so never bothered going all the distance for this end. Yes, it sure is fun. I am not sure about this spot but at the spillway the extra thing was the two huge boulders underneath the water and you have to land between them which was about 4-5m area. Thankfully we never had any accident at all. 

As for the bigger fixes, sure i am not comparing Khanpur to Lulusar lake  It is just this is something in your backyard, that counts for something. 



> Oh no bro, all you can do is not think about it and when you do get hit just thank the heavens that it wasn't bigger. It's an occupational hazard, tbh. Rarely do you ever see an incoming rock in time.


Occupational hazard? What line of work are you in bro? Again, you may chose to share the details in private but i am quite interested in it now. 



> Try April. The hills will be greener and the waters warmer


Lolz,
I said September (after monsoon) for the same reason. Plus the added advantage in September is that the lake is full. In April (specially if you get a dry winter) usually the water levels are low.

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> If you do not mind, who old are your kids? (you may choose to reply in private)



The youngest is two years, middle one is four and the eldest is 7 years .

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## Arsalan

User said:


> The youngest is two years, middle one is four and the eldest is 7 years .


Hmm, so perhaps you should wait for a couple of years and take them to Wah gardens. The fish ponds there are fascinating for the kids but i am not is a 4 year old will enjoy it that much, 






The ponds are so FULL of fish you can just see hundreds of them swimming around. Put some bread on your hand and they will feed from your hand. It is usually fun as far as the kids are concerned.

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> Hmm, so perhaps you should wait for a couple of years and take them to Wah gardens. The fish ponds there are fascinating for the kids but i am not is a 4 year old will enjoy it that much,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ponds are so FULL of fish you can just see hundreds of them swimming around. Put some bread on your hand and they will feed from your hand. It is usually fun as far as the kids are concerned.



If the ponds are deep then its a problem, because my four year one at the first sight of water wants to go into it (though we have to bear with his cries when he is told to take a bath). He kept asking me "Pani may jain, pani may jain" at side of Kunhar when others were getting ready for rafting. But still I would take them there to Wagah gardens someday they need to see as much Pakistan as they can at their father's cost .

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## Arsalan

User said:


> If the ponds are deep then its a problem, because my four year one at the first sight of water wants to go into it (though we have to bear with his cries when he is told to take a bath). He kept asking me "Pani may jain, pani may jain" at side of Kunhar when others were getting ready for rafting. But still I would take them there to Wagah gardens someday they need to see as much Pakistan as they can at their father's cost .


Well the pond i showed in post above is about 5 foot deep however the stream to this pond is just a foot deep or so and again full with fish. However, Swimming is not allowed there. Still there are waterways connecting the ponds which are perfect for kids like yours  i mean it is clear water and just a foot or so deep so not risky at all. The gardens are good, the structures are filthy, the weather in here is usually great.

Oh and it is not Wagha gardens, it is WAH gardens and it is some 20 minutes drive from Taxila.

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> Oh and it is not Wagha gardens, it is WAH gardens and it is some 20 minutes drive from Taxila.



Sorry my bad.  I hope locals there can point us in the right direction if asked?


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## Arsalan

User said:


> Sorry my bad.  I hope locals there can point us in the right direction if asked?


Easily, you just keep going on the GT road, go past Taxila Chowk, drive for about 20 min (you will corss the link road Jhan Bahatar Motorway interchange on you left side, Wah model town on your right, then there will be the Gate 3 barrier of Wah Cantt which is a bit difficult to spot on your right, go past all of these things) After that Wah Cantt Barrier (you can ask someone for that) you will find the a small road on your right. Take that and just keep driving on it for about 5 min and you will end up at the gate of Wah Gardens.

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> Easily, you just keep going on the GT road, go past Taxila Chowk, drive for about 20 min (you will corss the link road Jhan Bahatar Motorway interchange on you left side, Wah model town on your right, then there will be the Gate 3 barrier of Wah Cantt which is a bit difficult to spot on your right, go past all of these things) After that Wah Cantt Barrier (you can ask someone for that) you will find the a small road on your right. Take that and just keep driving on it for about 5 min and you will end up at the gate of Wah Gardens.
> View attachment 321970




Taxila Museum
Sirkap
Dharmarajika
Jaulian
Dam and lake and
Wah Gardens
The list of must see in Taxila. Should I consider this list exhaustive?

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## Arsalan

User said:


> Taxila Museum
> Sirkap
> Dharmarajika
> Jaulian
> Dam and lake and
> Wah Gardens
> The list of must see in Taxila. Should I consider this list exhaustive?


You SHOULD!

This is no way a single day trip. If you ask me i will recommend you to cover this on two separate occasions:

Considering the weather these day, plan a trip for Wah Gardens for this weekend (or whichever you are planning for) You can leave Pindi after lunch. Get here in an hour and a half or so, spend the evening and that is it. You can always try to have dinner in some good restaurants in the area. Shenwaris (in Taxila CHowk) make some exquisite Karahi and Namkeen ghosht or you can opt for more traditional dinning experience in in Wah Continental etc. 

Museum, Sirkap and the Dharmarajika stupa is a 3 hours activity at best so i am not sure if that this alone is wroth the traveling from Pindi. I would suggest that you leave in morning and choose to visit Sirkap first (before it get too hot and keep praying for a cloudy day, you might get one). Then go to Museum (now you are actually traveling back towards the GT road that you came from) and finally to the stupa. You can do all this by around 2 pm. Bring along a food basket and have your lunch or go to Wah Cantt and have lunch in Aslam market. It will be OK. If you manage to get inside the cantt the directions are simple enough. This is just that one main road you will be traveling on and the Aslam market will come on your right hand side. After lunch you can keep traveling on the same road forward till you reach that Barrier 3, get out on to the GT road travel for a kilometer and you are at that diversion for Wah Gardens.  If you are not able to get inside Wah then select any restaurant on you left side, these are the Shenwari Hotels and food tastes good. After that you can move to Wah Gardens via the same GT Road. Spend the afternoon and evening there (your kids can enjoy the water), On your way back you can go inside Wah Cantt (it will be easier to do so from barrier 3, don't ask me why) and go to Basti market for some shopping. Stop at Aslam Market in Wah or go to the same Shenwari Restaurants in Taxila for dinner and you will be back by 9-10 pm. (or you can chose to just travel back after Wah Gardens) 

Khanpur and Julian are for another trip and Khanpur, specially with boating etc will keep you occupied for the whole day. Also plan that for later part of September. If i was you, i would make the first trip now and for second i would get some family or family friends on-board and plan that Bar B Q (evening) at Khanpur for late September/October. Preferably September. That will be a good experience.

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## krash

Arsalan said:


> I did enjoyed this but never in this spot. For us the Spillway was much easier to get to and since we did it like almost every week so never bothered going all the distance for this end. Yes, it sure is fun. I am not sure about this spot but at the spillway the extra thing was the two huge boulders underneath the water and you have to land between them which was about 4-5m area. Thankfully we never had any accident at all.
> 
> 
> As for the bigger fixes, sure i am not comparing Khanpur to Lulusar lake  It is just this is something in your backyard, that counts for something.



Ohoho......I envy you.



Arsalan said:


> Occupational hazard? What line of work are you in bro? Again, you may chose to share the details in private but i am quite interested in it now.



Ah na na, I'm just a desk jockey. Meant it figuratively.



Arsalan said:


> Lolz,
> I said September (after monsoon) for the same reason. Plus the added advantage in September is that the lake is full. In April (specially if you get a dry winter) usually the water levels are low.



Ah yes, didn't think of that. Makes sense. 

My favourite time for the whole stretch from Hassanabdal till Dassu is April-may. All these places become something else with the lush green early spring brush. Plus the temps are amazing as well.

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## Arsalan

krash said:


> Ohoho......I envy you.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah na na, I'm just a desk jockey. Meant it figuratively.


Well you are a bit too well informed about all those places for a desk jockey  I travel nut i see!! Plus i assume you are from the northern areas so may be that is the reason for all that "awara gardi" which actually comes as routine family visits, lucky you if this is the case.



> Ah yes, didn't think of that. Makes sense.


Yup!



> My favourite time for the whole stretch from Hassanabdal till Dassu is April-may. All these places become something else with the lush green early spring brush. Plus the temps are amazing as well.


Agreed with this. Naran route is better for June to Mid July as well in addition to the months you mentioned. The KKH route is a bit too hot in June-July. After that, the rainy season starts to create problems. I think the best time to visit those areas will be mid April to mid July (now with Ramzan covering the June July section it is becoming more difficult to plan those trips  , I missed out on one this year for exactly this reason, better plan something for May next year.  )

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## krash

Arsalan said:


> Well you are a bit too well informed about all those places for a desk jockey  I travel nut i see!! Plus i assume you are from the northern areas so may be that is the reason for all that "awara gardi" which actually comes as routine family visits, lucky you if this is the case.



Haha, you guessed right but I'm not from the North, well ethnically my family's pure ethnic Kashmiris but from Srinagar, no family up north this side of the LOC. I was just lucky to be born to a couple of absolute travel junkies from Lahore. The love affair with the mountains was only natural and then was compounded manifolds with the family trips. This absolute fasination grew along with myself and I just had to see what the world looked like from those monstrous peaks and thus I became an amateur mountaineer. Hence the 'awara gardi' :p




Arsalan said:


> Agreed with this. Naran route is better for June to Mid July as well in addition to the months you mentioned. The KKH route is a bit too hot in June-July. After that, the rainy season starts to create problems. I think the best time to visit those areas will be mid April to mid July (now with Ramzan covering the June July section it is becoming more difficult to plan those trips  , I missed out on one this year for exactly this reason, better plan something for May next year.  )



You know what, if I were to pick only one season in a year to go North I'd always choose the winters. There is an indescribable aura in the air then. Feels as if from a fairy tale. I usually don't advise this to many because let's face it, most of our people aren't exactly very comfortable in the cold. I on the other hand am called the 'polar animal' by my friends, only in Urdu and less flatteringly.

ps: Sorry for the late reply, was out of town.

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## Arsalan

krash said:


> You know what, if I were to pick only one season in a year to go North I'd always choose the winters. There is an indescribable aura in the air then. Feels as if from a fairy tale. I usually don't advise this to many because let's face it, most of our people aren't exactly very comfortable in the cold. I on the other hand am called the 'polar animal' by my friends, only in Urdu and less flatteringly.
> 
> ps: Sorry for the late reply, was out of town.


Well that makes two of us on personal choice level. However i do not advise that either as the traveling is a bit harder, approach to some points may need some work up but otherwise, those area are made to be seen in winter,, that is when they are being what "they are meant to be"

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## Arsalan

@User just remembered, what happened with that tour of yours sir? 
Were not able to go yet or didn't liked the places?


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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> @User just remembered, what happened with that tour of yours sir?
> Were not able to go yet or didn't liked the places?



Sir those places are still in to do list  (written on a post it ) ...................... I don't get two days weekend off and then with family you always have these markets to visit specially before Eid (in aurato ko ALLAH akal day 15 minute ki shopping 4 gantay tak chalti hay). Soon INSHALLAH soon

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## Arsalan

User said:


> Sir those places are still in to do list  (written on a post it ) ...................... I don't get two days weekend off and then with family you always have these markets to visit specially before Eid (in aurato ko ALLAH akal day 15 minute ki shopping 4 gantay tak chalti hay). Soon INSHALLAH soon


Lolz!! 
Chloo shukar ha i am not tied up like this yet  
Let us know when you do visit. I hope it turns out to be a nice experience for you and your family janab!

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> Lolz!!
> Chloo shukar ha i am not tied up like this yet
> Let us know when you do visit. I hope it turns out to be a nice experience for you and your family janab!



INSHALLAH I will share the experience, hopefully everyone would enjoy and if possible I will share the pics as well (cellphone say he lo ga no hi fi tech) .

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## Arsalan

User said:


> INSHALLAH I will share the experience, hopefully everyone would enjoy and if possible I will share the pics as well (cellphone say he lo ga no hi fi tech) .


Lolz!! 
That will do just fine sir!

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## Arsalan

Hi @krash
Just hope you are active these days and i can get a response, it might be a time sensitive piece of info that i need.

Fairy Meadows, any idea how much time it takes these days to reach Fairy Meadows from Chilas and how is the route?
Need to travel next week and since i am the one organizing the trip for this group of friends of mine, though its better to get some necessary info in time. (It is the same trip we had to cancel two years back, not sure if we talked about that or not)

Plus time, the road to Babusar was ready last summer and they were working on Babusar-Chilas. Any idea if that is ready now?

Asking you since i though you might have visited recently.

Only other guy i can think of is @WAJsal ,,,,, ANYTHING now that you are back?

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## WAJsal

Arsalan said:


> Plus time, the road to Babusar was ready last summer and they were working on Babusar-Chilas. Any idea if that is ready now?


If it isn't ready by now i will commit suicide , aur kitna time lagaein gey. But don't worry it shouldn't be a big problem if it isn't done yet most of it is definitely complete.


Arsalan said:


> Fairy Meadows, any idea how much time it takes these days to reach Fairy Meadows from Chilas and how is the route?


I remember it taking us a lot of time but that was a long time ago, i hope this helps:
https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/t/...trip-to-fairy-meadows-from-islamabad/232136/4

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## krash

Arsalan said:


> Hi @krash
> Just hope you are active these days and i can get a response, it might be a time sensitive piece of info that i need.
> 
> Fairy Meadows, any idea how much time it takes these days to reach Fairy Meadows from Chilas and how is the route?
> Need to travel next week and since i am the one organizing the trip for this group of friends of mine, though its better to get some necessary info in time. (It is the same trip we had to cancel two years back, not sure if we talked about that or not)
> 
> Plus time, the road to Babusar was ready last summer and they were working on Babusar-Chilas. Any idea if that is ready now?
> 
> Asking you since i though you might have visited recently.
> 
> Only other guy i can think of is @WAJsal ,,,,, ANYTHING now that you are back?



I remember. And I passed through there last Oct, I got you.

Since you're taking the Babusar pass you wouldn't be hitting Chillas (you would be in Chillas district though, as soon as you pass the police post on top of Babusar), you'll join the KKH a bit north of Chillas (which is ok since Chillas is pretty "meh..."). Babusar to Raikot bridge will take you 1.5-3 hrs depending on how you drive. From Raikot (the Shangrila Hotel's parking lot) you'll take a 30-45 min jeep ride to the jeep point from where you'll start your trek to Fairy Meadows. The trek can be anywhere from 4-6 hrs depending on how hard you push (don't listen to the locals when they say it's an hour). Take the trek slow, enjoy it but don't stop too often. The only variable you'll have would be that it is not recommended to start the trek mid day since at this time of the year the first half of the trek would be unbearably hot, if you have clear skies (you'll see as soon as you come down Babusar). The second half is pleasant since by then you've climbed high enough from the scorched valley. So try to reach Raikot early in the morning or you'll have to wait till evening time before you start and it will be just time wasted sitting in an ok-ish hotel in the middle of nothing spectacular.

The road from Babusar till you hit the KKH is perfect, except for any landslides you encounter. The road after that till Raikot bridge is crappy but very doable. You'll get potholes, some rough patches, some old road that has fared better and some new patches which will be perfect. This part is still the KKH from the 90s and the early 2000s; doable but annoying.

I'll be checking here regularly in case you have any more questions. And I'll try to find some of my pictures to get you a better idea.



Arsalan said:


> Plus time, the road to Babusar was ready last summer and they were working on Babusar-Chilas. Any idea if that is ready now?





WAJsal said:


> If it isn't ready by now i will commit suicide , aur kitna time lagaein gey. But don't worry it shouldn't be a big problem if it isn't done yet most of it is definitely complete.



Bratharaan, what are we talking about? The Babusar to KKH stretch was built before they built the Lulusar to Babusar part . In fact I clearly remember as early as 2014 when I drove on dirt from Lulusar till right at the top of Babusar. Then from the Police post on top of the pass till the KKH it was all paved. Could we be talking about the re-carpeting?

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## I.R.A

@krash noori top, dudi pat, ansoo, sat sar ........ what should be the ideal age of kids to take them there?

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## krash

@Arsalan @WAJsal Check this. I took these in June of 2014. They're all from the same trip.

Passing Lulusar,







Between Lulusar and Babusar,












Took this looking back towards Lulusar while climbing up the Babusar pass. Notice that it was all just a dirt track.






And then below is what you saw on the other side (Gilgit-Baltistan) from the top of Babusar. Newly carpeted, still without road markings and signs. It was like this till you hit the KKH.

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## krash

And this is what the stretch from Babusar to KKH looks like today, well Oct 2017. Notice that now all the road markings and signs are there. And also notice that its pretty good.

Coming down the Babusar Pass on the Gilgit-Baltistan side,






Took these on the way back, after having left the KKH behind, going towards Babusar,









How things have changed. Check this bridge on the dirt track back in 2014,






Same bridge in 2017 but no dirt track,






And the Babusar Pass now,






Its too easy to travel there now.

And btw, below is how the stretch after hitting the KKH and then on to Raikot will mostly look like (even though this pic is from 2014. Couldn't find one from last year). Bumpy, well trodden, aged but still very doable.






When you hit the KKH you'll find yourself at a pretty fancy looking intersection sort of a thing, don't be fooled by it. As soon as you turn right and pass it reality will welcome you. Then the road will oscillate between the above picture, patches that are barely gravel tracks and then some which were re-carpeted recently. In any case, you'll be fine and you'll have a blast.




I.R.A said:


> @krash noori top, dudi pat, ansoo, sat sar ........ what should be the ideal age of kids to take them there?



It really depends how much they are into things like these. I wouldn't really take them on any trek that was anything more than elementary (e.g. Ayubia National Park, Margala Hills, Mushkpuri Top) until they were at least 15-16. If at that time you think they can handle the physical and mental exertion then by all means. I would however still start them small and then gradually increase it. One year, take them on a trek from Naran to Saif-ul-Maluk or from Jagran to the "Jagran Glacier" (just perennial snow but a lot of it), for example. It doesn't matter if they fail, as long as they give it a shot. I wouldn't push them at all, let them see if they like it. And if they get hooked (and this is the age when kids usually get hooked to their true interests) then they'll have a life long worth of opportunities to pursue it further. TBH, all the treks that you've mentioned aren't technical at all, they are just outdoor walks over gravel and grass on a gradually inclined plane, and yet a majority of our average people find them very difficult because they aren't even used to walking to their neighbours'. Plus it's not for everyone, I've been taught that the hard way way too many times for my liking.

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## WAJsal

krash said:


> (which is ok since Chillas is pretty "meh...")


It is hell...



krash said:


> Bratharaan, what are we talking about? The Babusar to KKH stretch was built before they built the Lulusar to Babusar part . In fact I clearly remember as early as 2014 when I drove on dirt from Lulusar till right at the top of Babusar. Then from the Police post on top of the pass till the KKH it was all paved. Could we be talking about the re-carpeting?


I guess we were talking about the babusar route itself.

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## I.R.A

krash said:


> It really depends how much they are into things like these. I wouldn't really take them on any trek that was anything more than elementary (e.g. Ayubia National Park, Margala Hills, Mushkpuri Top) until they were at least 15-16. If at that time you think they can handle the physical and mental exertion then by all means. I would however still start them small and then gradually increase it. One year, take them on a trek from Naran to Saif-ul-Maluk or from Jagran to the "Jagran Glacier" (just perennial snow but a lot of it), for example. It doesn't matter if they fail, as long as they give it a shot. I wouldn't push them at all, let them see if they like it. And if they get hooked (and this is the age when kids usually get hooked to their true interests) then they'll have a life long worth of opportunities to pursue it further. TBH, all the treks that you've mentioned aren't technical at all, they are just outdoor walks over gravel and grass on a gradually inclined plane, and yet a majority of our average people find them very difficult because they aren't even used to walking to their neighbours'. Plus it's not for everyone, I've been taught that the hard way way too many times for my liking.



I have started taking them to places where they can hike trek enjoy the snow, go up little hills climbing with me, but the frequency of it is twice a year at max ...... 15-16 years is a long way to go yet ..... Insha ALLAH someday.

Thanks for the tips and advice.

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## Arsalan

krash said:


> And this is what the stretch from Babusar to KKH looks like today, well Oct 2017. Notice that now all the road markings and signs are there. And also notice that its pretty good.
> 
> Coming down the Babusar Pass on the Gilgit-Baltistan side,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took these on the way back, after having left the KKH behind, going towards Babusar,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How things have changed. Check this bridge on the dirt track back in 2014,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same bridge in 2017 but no dirt track,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the Babusar Pass now,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its too easy to travel there now.
> 
> And btw, below is how the stretch after hitting the KKH and then on to Raikot will mostly look like (even though this pic is from 2014. Couldn't find one from last year). Bumpy, well trodden, aged but still very doable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you hit the KKH you'll find yourself at a pretty fancy looking intersection sort of a thing, don't be fooled by it. As soon as you turn right and pass it reality will welcome you. Then the road will oscillate between the above picture, patches that are barely gravel tracks and then some which were re-carpeted recently. In any case, you'll be fine and you'll have a blast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It really depends how much they are into things like these. I wouldn't really take them on any trek that was anything more than elementary (e.g. Ayubia National Park, Margala Hills, Mushkpuri Top) until they were at least 15-16. If at that time you think they can handle the physical and mental exertion then by all means. I would however still start them small and then gradually increase it. One year, take them on a trek from Naran to Saif-ul-Maluk or from Jagran to the "Jagran Glacier" (just perennial snow but a lot of it), for example. It doesn't matter if they fail, as long as they give it a shot. I wouldn't push them at all, let them see if they like it. And if they get hooked (and this is the age when kids usually get hooked to their true interests) then they'll have a life long worth of opportunities to pursue it further. TBH, all the treks that you've mentioned aren't technical at all, they are just outdoor walks over gravel and grass on a gradually inclined plane, and yet a majority of our average people find them very difficult because they aren't even used to walking to their neighbours'. Plus it's not for everyone, I've been taught that the hard way way too many times for my liking.



PERFECT!!
Thanks man, that was really helpful and that road to babusar, inst it amazing now??? You can go there on a 660cc, lolz! No troubles at all! 

Anyway, we opted for an option that we have NEVER chosen before! Going with a tour organizer now. It was a group of 8, 9 friends so we were never planning to go in our own cars since half the fun is actually traveling to the spot, to do it together, the idea was to hire an APV or Hiace high Roof to take us to Chillas and then to Raikot and jeeps from there. Not really sensitive about accommodations since we are all university friends and hostel fellows so.... well, would have stayed anywhere. Found that food was a bit of a problem, eps in Naran with quality being not so good so were going to take our own utensils, enough for may be a karahi or two and BBQ!!

NOW, we are doing it all with a tour organizer who will do this all for us, car, food, accommodation, jeeps, hut at fairy meadow, everything. One of our friends have used him with his office trip in the past and recommended so we decided to give it a try. Not really have much to manage now.



krash said:


> Bratharaan, what are we talking about? The Babusar to KKH stretch was built before they built the Lulusar to Babusar part . In fact I clearly remember as early as 2014 when I drove on dirt from Lulusar till right at the top of Babusar. Then from the Police post on top of the pass till the KKH it was all paved. Could we be talking about the re-carpeting?


Hein  may be it was a patch being re-worked then. Was there last summer (Babusar). Rood to Babusar was perfect and then there were some heavy machinery at the top and some work going on a track that look pretty bad when you looked down toward Chillas. I guess it must be some repair work then. Good to know that road to KKH is fine now and no, we don't plan to stay in Chilas. The organizer was giving us a night in Chilas but i have asked them to move that to somewhere around Raikot so we can began our journey to Fairy Meadows early morning. All of us are in pretty bad shape really and smoke too so may need some extra time to get there, lolz!

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## krash

WAJsal said:


> It is hell...



Can't object to that.



WAJsal said:


> I guess we were talking about the babusar route itself.



Ah, makes sense. That bit was complete by mid 2016.



I.R.A said:


> I have started taking them to places where they can hike trek enjoy the snow, go up little hills climbing with me, but the frequency of it is twice a year at max ...... 15-16 years is a long way to go yet ..... Insha ALLAH someday.
> 
> Thanks for the tips and advice.



Insha' Allah. And anytime brother.

That's brilliant. And twice a year is good, we don't want to wear them or the feeling out.




Arsalan said:


> PERFECT!!
> Thanks man, that was really helpful and that road to babusar, inst it amazing now??? You can go there on a 660cc, lolz! No troubles at all!



Anytime  and Lol yeah. I remember when the carpeting beyond Naran began. Till 2011 it was only paved till Jalkhad which only had 2-3 tents and a hut. You had to off-road to get till Lulusar. But man that fresh tarmac without a bump anywhere till Jalkhad, you could cruise seamlessly at 100kph. That stretch has deteriorated quite a bit since then but its still decent.

Took this on the way to Lulusar in July 2010. The mud was at times half way to my knees. Can't even recognise it now.








Arsalan said:


> Anyway, we opted for an option that we have NEVER chosen before! Going with a tour organizer now. It was a group of 8, 9 friends so we were never planning to go in our own cars since half the fun is actually traveling to the spot, to do it together, the idea was to hire an APV or Hiace high Roof to take us to Chillas and then to Raikot and jeeps from there. Not really sensitive about accommodations since we are all university friends and hostel fellows so.... well, would have stayed anywhere. Found that food was a bit of a problem, eps in Naran with quality being not so good so were going to take our own utensils, enough for may be a karahi or two and BBQ!!
> 
> NOW, we are doing it all with a tour organizer who will do this all for us, car, food, accommodation, jeeps, hut at fairy meadow, everything. One of our friends have used him with his office trip in the past and recommended so we decided to give it a try. Not really have much to manage now.



Not a bad idea. A group that big on a long journey like this becomes a headache for a single guy to handle, all you need is that one hypersensitive guy/girl. Oh the mistakes I've made, never took a group that big though.

And try this; eat at the worst looking dhabbas, they usually have the tastiest food, plus its cheap. This goes pretty much for all of our North. Pretty sure you already knew this.





Arsalan said:


> Hein  may be it was a patch being re-worked then. Was there last summer (Babusar). Rood to Babusar was perfect and then there were some heavy machinery at the top and some work going on a track that look pretty bad when you looked down toward Chillas. I guess it must be some repair work then. Good to know that road to KKH is fine now and no, we don't plan to stay in Chilas.



Yeah probably. The whole length from Babusar till the KKH takes quite a beating all year round. The bit down the pass gets quite a lot of snow in the winter and then the stretch after that receives rock and land slides all too frequently. I don't think I've ever passed there without passing over a fresh landslide, last time I counted four on my way north and then on my way back was stuck behind one that was reportedly 2 hrs old.




Arsalan said:


> The organizer was giving us a night in Chilas but i have asked them to move that to somewhere around Raikot so we can began our journey to Fairy Meadows early morning.



Good thinking. You'll be staying at the Shangrila Hotel, nothing else there.



Arsalan said:


> All of us are in pretty bad shape really and smoke too so may need some extra time to get there, lolz!



Hahaha. Keep some quick energy snacks with you guys then :p

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## Arsalan

krash said:


> Good thinking. You'll be staying at the Shangrila Hotel, nothing else there.


Leaving tonight. Shangrila had no free rooms so will be moving further up the road to Jaglot and stay there for the night. Wont make a fuss about whatever we get there, its just one night and with friends together, i think we will enjoy that too!



> Hahaha. Keep some quick energy snacks with you guys then :p


Yup, will be carrying cigs 
Will keep some chocolates. Any other suggestions? We will be leaving tonight around 10, i am about to leave for Lahore.


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## krash

Arsalan said:


> Leaving tonight. Shangrila had no free rooms so will be moving further up the road to Jaglot and stay there for the night. Wont make a fuss about whatever we get there, its just one night and with friends together, i think we will enjoy that too!



Not too bad. Would just need to wake up even earlier to make up for the drive to Raikhot. BTW right besides Jaghlot is the Bunji cantonment area. If you know someone in the army they could get you some pretty nice rooms.




Arsalan said:


> Yup, will be carrying cigs
> Will keep some chocolates. Any other suggestions? We will be leaving tonight around 10, i am about to leave for Lahore.



Don't smoke, at least on the trek :p and have a blast!


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## Arsalan

krash said:


> Not too bad. Would just need to wake up even earlier to make up for the drive to Raikhot. BTW right besides Jaghlot is the Bunji cantonment area. If you know someone in the army they could get you some pretty nice rooms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't smoke, at least on the trek :p and have a blast!

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## krash

Arsalan said:


> View attachment 485589



Nicely done, sir. I was wondering today if you'd gotten back yet. How was it?


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## Arsalan

krash said:


> Nicely done, sir. I was wondering today if you'd gotten back yet. How was it?


How was it? Cannot explain in words dear. NangaParbat have always been a fascination, one of the three places i wanted to see in my life! I was speechless! Just sat there and gazed upon its beauty for 2 - 3 hours straight upon reaching the meadows. AMAZING!! 

Since this thread was meant to share travel experiences and serve as a travel guide, will share detailed experience later.

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## WAJsal

Arsalan said:


> NangaParbat have always been a fascination


True. I remember they would bring the ice from NangaParbat to one of our village near Chilas, man we just had to put some sugar on it and it was better tham any golla ganda. Good memories.

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## krash

Arsalan said:


> How was it? Cannot explain in words dear. NangaParbat have always been a fascination, one of the three places i wanted to see in my life! I was speechless! Just sat there and gazed upon its beauty for 2 - 3 hours straight upon reaching the meadows. AMAZING!!
> 
> Since this thread was meant to share travel experiences and serve as a travel guide, will share detailed experience later.



Haha, glad to hear that.

And can't wait for the detailed account.


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## Arsalan

OK guys so here it is, since this thread was meant to be an information sharing platform so other people can plan their visits AND to ask questions about your upcoming visits, i will try and share the whole account in a way where i keep info sharing a priority. 
@WAJsal @WebMaster @fatman17 @krash @Rashid Mahmood 

*TRIP TO FAIRY MEADOWS*
First thing first, we traveled with a tour organizer however that is absolutely not necessary. We decided this as we had a group of 9 friends and sometimes it gets a bit hectic to manage them all (since it will be one or two guys doing it). We calculated the budget for the trip earlier, it was coming out at around *18500 Rs/head* (four days trip - ALL included). The organizer offered the same so we decided to try. Overall, it was a good experience. I share all this to inform that you can plan a trip by yourself as well, our plan was to rent a hiace as all of wanted to travel together, keep some cooking and BBQ equipment with us. *It is all very feasible and do-able and if that is what you prefer, go for it. *

Back to the trip. So we left Lahore at around 11 pm on Wednesday night. Traveled via GT road as we had to pick someone up on the way but i will recommend you to travel via motorway as it is more comfortable. Via motorway it will take you some 3.5-4 hrs to Islamabad-Peshawar intersection. Below is the rough time chart/plan that can help you people:
*
DAY 1
Time Table (Lahore to Jaglot)*
Departure Lahore 11 pm
Islamabad-Peshawar intersection motorway 3am
From there to Havalian, 40min. You will be there by 4am max
Abbotabat, another 40 min, we will make it 4.45am 
Abbotabad to Balakot - by 6am
From Balakot to Naran you must keep 4 hours as it is likely that you will be taking some stops. Following this chart you can be in Naran around 9-10am
Naran to Babusar (2hours), with stop over you can reach Babusar at around 1 pm
Babusar to Chilas (2hours), again, you will be stopping on your way DOWN to Chilas so i will make it 4 pm
Chilas to Raikot-Jaglot (2 -2.30 hrs), you can reach Jaglot by around 7-8pm (we were there at around 7.45)
*
Journey details*
It is recommended you that leave Lahore around 11pm as it will give you a night time rush free drive and more importantly, following the above table you can cross abbotabad at around 5.30 - 6am in morning (that is BEFORE rush hours). If you get stuck in Abbotabad it can easily consume 2 hours + of you time on a 7 - 8 km stretch of road.
There are some good road side restaurants in Balakot with a nice view of Kunhar, stop at one for early morning breakfast. DO NOT plan to delay it to Kawai or Naran.
DO NOT STOP IN KAWAI, the place you are heading to is WAY MORE beautiful so not spend/waste time here on this trip.
You will be in Naran at around 9-10am and if you choose the by-pass, park the car near PTDC resturants, it will be just 3 min walk to Naran bazar and you have avoided getting stuck in traffic. Can visit Naran bazar if you have to pick up some necessary food items or anything like that. Dry fruits, snacks, juices may be? But don't carry TOO MUCH LOAD however if possible, it is recommend you do get something to have for lunch later on. I prefer the Chappli Kabab and Naan packed together. You can eat it on your way to Babusar or at Babusar. AGAIN, IT IS RECOMMENDED AND YOU WILL SOON SEE WHY.

From Naran to Babusar its a 2 hours drive on an EXCELLENT ROAD (same as the one you will be traveling on since you left Lahore). However there are some excellent sights you may want to take in. Batakundi, Burawai offer some stunning views of CLAM Kunhar River.





You can still get to Babusar by around 1pm easy. 
From Babusar Top, you start your downwards journey towards Chilas. Again, a 2 hours drive on an absolutely excellent road, but adding a 15min stop over in Babusar and another 15-20 min on your way down to give your car breaks a rest and to enjoy a beautiful stream of clean clear water.





You have to stop here to give your car some much needed rest (brakes especially since you are descending all the way down to Chilas) plus this is the last bit of good weather you will have for the rest of the day. Do not miss this. You can easily make it to Chilas at around 3.30-4pm and it is like HELL. It will be scorching hot (unless there are some clouds and rain) and it is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED that you do not try to enter the town as you may get stuck in traffic. There is nothing much to do here except the fact that by now, you are over due with your Lunch. Now that is why i suggested getting some Chapli Kababs from Naran and eat on the way. You cannot skip Chilas if you have to eat and it is recommended to get out of here soon as it is hot and not much lively. If you have eaten anything from Naran or Babusar, just do not enter town and keep driving on KKH. 

From Chilas to Raikot Bridge it takes about 2 hours and you get to drive with the MIGHT INDUS Flowing on your left side. It is a sight to behold, especially, if like you you get that dry barren giant mountains trigger a a feeling of diminutiveness in you. These mountains are a bit terrifying in a way, huge, dry, barren, with a monster of a river flowing at their foot, the rocks and sedimentation at the river banks gives the whole area a sense of grandeur and you get to know how insignificant you really are in the grand scheme of things.




From Chilas it will take about 2 hours to get to Raikot bridge. There is just one nice hotel choice in this area so if you can get a room there and PREFER to not travel any further, stay. However i will suggest that you cross Indus at Raikot, travel towards Jaglot. It is just about 20-25min drive. The road is excellent and you get to a less expensive and extremely nice hotel with SENSATIONAL view of the great Nanga Parbat or as they call it, the KILLER MOUNTAIN (Well it can really kill with its views and sheer beauty if you ask me). 





The hotel is exceptional really, quite, calm, clean and the food is great. You will need a good nights rest after 20 odd ours of journey and what is coming up tomorrow. 
*
Continued . . . *

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## Arsalan

*DAY-2*
Try and get up early in the morning. Around 5-6am in morning. The breakfast again is great at the hotel, keep it light and try and get to move by around 8am. Fancy a little side tour and take a drive further up north, 10-12 min drive and you come up to "Junction Point" in Jaglot. The point where worlds three highest mountain ranges meet, Himalaya, Karakorum and Hindukush. A place to make you proud of being a Pakistani.

Do this if you managed to wake up early, it will take just 20-25 min to go there and be back. If you can leave Jaglot by 8:30-9 you are FINE! It just takes 20-25min to get back to Raikot from where you can begin you journey to Fairy Meadows.

*Time Table (Jaglot to Fairy Meadow)*
Departure for Raikot 8:30am
Raitkot 9:00 am
Jeep Track from Raikot to Jeep Point/Fairy Point (1.5 - 2hours). Adding half hour more for any cross overs etc and you can get to Fairy Point by 11:30.
Trekking to Fairy Meadow; depends on the person really. Can take from 2:30 hours to 4-5 hours even. Normally it is considered a 3 hours track for an average guy (not an athlete, not regular at exercise and with limited trekking exp) For our schedual, we will consider it a 3 hours track. Starting at 11:30 you can be at Fairy Meadows by 2:30 - 3pm.

*Journey details*
The jeep track from Raikot to Jeep point/Fairy Point is quite an experience. Narrow bumpy track with hundred of feet deep sheer drop on one side and hundreds of feet high dry mountain on the other, its a ride to remember. You look it up on google and there are many sources that will say it to be EXTREMELY dangerous, some calling it worlds second most deadliest and dangerous road. Its not saying its walk in the park really, sure is dangerous but not DEADLY DANGEROUS and you will survive InshAllah. If you have traveled to Siri Paye, you will notice that the only thing that makes it more frightening is that in siri paye you cannot see the bottom of the valley with all the forestation and stuff, plus they make you feel somewhat protected. Well, this one is barren and you get to see all the way down, some 1200-1500 feet down that is. Plus unlike Siri Paye, this track is all rocks so quite bumpy. Just pray it do not rains. 






The track can be seen as the thin line on the right mountains.
.






 All rocks so quite bumpy but the drivers are experts really.

If all goes according to plan you will be at Jeep Point/Fairy Point (there is a small stream between these two but these are just 5 min apart) by 11:00 - 11:30pm

From here the trekking to Fairy Meadows begin. Now here is the most valuable information. The first bit of track is the difficult part really. The path is narrow and you are going up, height making it difficult to breath so you will find yourself out of breath if you do not plan this part carefully with slow, small steps and breathing through nose. 





*First 40 minutes or so*
If the tack is 3 hours, it is the firth half hour that will really knock you down, may force you to hire a horse for 3000 Rs and you will regret doing it for the next one and a half hour (that part after the starting half hour is really nothing). You are not climbing up really, the track is very wide and you reach the forested area so it is cooler and nicer. If you had managed that first thirty to forty minutes, you will be refreshed in this part. If you had hired a horse, you will be regretting it now!! 





*The Easy Bit - Walking*
This is until you are 2 hours into your trekking. The last hour again is a difficult in a sense that you are climbing up the mountain on a relatively narrow track. Its scary as hell if you are riding! 
Anyway, it is not very technical and most of us can make it. Wont be a big problem. The key suggestion here is that you try and make it thought the first half hour or so. That is the difficult part and once you do that the next hour and a half will give you enough energy do do the last stretch.

Anyway, 3 hours from Fairy point trekking on a path that can be divide as:

*Total Time: 3 Hours*

First 45 Minutes: Moderately Difficult with track gaining height, being narrow and all this being start of journey
Next One and a Half Hour: Beautiful, rewarding and refreshing with very slight climb, wide path/track in the cool forest.
Last one Hour: Difficult, climbing up a mountain, narrow.
THIS is where you reach!





The Camp Site at Fairy Meadows is pretty nice and clean with exceptional view of Nanga Parbat. 10 min walk from there and you are in the actual Fairy Meadows.











The view is stunning, the reflection lake (which really is a pond) offers great view and photography opportunity. The stream to the pond is unbelievable clear, cold and refreshing. 

AND, you are looking at NANGA PARBAT!! What else you can ask for from a four day trip? ITS THE NINTH HIGHEST MOUNTAIN IN THE WORLD!! 





*Will update a link for more pictures later.

DAY-3*
Spend some time at fairy meadows. You can also go further up to Beyal Camp in about two hours of fairly easy trekking and from there to View Point in about another 40minutes. The views are stunning. It is suggested that you wake up early, around 6, 7am max and go up to View Point. It will take around 5 hours to 6 hours for a round trip. You can also decide to hire a horse for this route and can be back in 3 to 4 hours plus half and hour or one our at the point. However it is suggested that you move so that you are back in Fairy Meadows maximum by 2:00 pm to begin return journey

NOTE: This is a four day trip. If you have a spare day, just stay at view point for some more time, may be even try and get to base camp.

If you begin your journey at 2:00 pm you will be down by 6pm. Stay either in Jalgot or Chilas (going to Naran might be difficult as that road is not allowed to travel on after 6pm). If you plan to get back to Naran, it is suggested that you leave Fairy Meadows by 10:00 Am. Get to Raitkot by 2:30PM, Chilas by 4:30 pm and then to Babusar by 6:30 and Naran by 9:00 pm. 
*
DAY-4*
To cut long story short, it will take you around 10 to 12 hours to reach Lahore from Naran. Now if you want to send some time in Naran, do it on you journey back (Not when you were going to Fairy Meadows) You can easily leave Naran after Lunch and still get back to Lahore by mid night. We left early so we can get back to home in time, take some rest and freshen up for the next days work.


*Expenses:*
Here is a rough cost idea for 8-10 person group.
Hiace rent for four days 30000Rs (Very Comfortable Option)
Fuel Charges 30000Rs approximate
First night hotel in Jaglot (Good Hotel) - 2 rooms with 3 bed and one mattress each. 3500 x 2 = 7000
Jeep to Fairy Point (Return Journey) 3000Rs x 2 Jeepts = 6000Rs
Camping at Fairy Meadows - (Camps-You have to stay in camp in Fairy Meadow) Tent with sleeping bags, ground cover, etc - 3 person per camp - 2000 x 3 = 6000RS
Third Night Hotel in Naran (Fair Hotel) - 2 Rooms 5500Rs x 2 = 11000Rs
Total = 92000

Food 
Breakfast 8 x 300 = 3200Rs
Lunch 8 x 750 = 6000
Dinner 8 x 750 = 6000
Total = 15200
Total Food = 4 days x 15200 =60800

GRAND TOTAL = 92000+60800 = 152800

Dividing on 8 or 9 people it is 17000 to 19000 Rs per head.

@Slav Defence @waz @Irfan Baloch @fatman17 @I.R.A

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## fatman17

Arsalan said:


> *DAY-2*
> Try and get up early in the morning. Around 5-6am in morning. The breakfast again is great at the hotel, keep it light and try and get to move by around 8am. Fancy a little side tour and take a drive further up north, 10-12 min drive and you come up to "Junction Point" in Jaglot. The point where worlds three highest mountain ranges meet, Himalaya, Karakorum and Hindukush. A place to make you proud of being a Pakistani.
> 
> Do this if you managed to wake up early, it will take just 20-25 min to go there and be back. If you can leave Jaglot by 8:30-9 you are FINE! It just takes 20-25min to get back to Raikot from where you can begin you journey to Fairy Meadows.
> 
> *Time Table (Jaglot to Fairy Meadow)*
> Departure for Raikot 8:30am
> Raitkot 9:00 am
> Jeep Track from Raikot to Jeep Point/Fairy Point (1.5 - 2hours). Adding half hour more for any cross overs etc and you can get to Fairy Point by 11:30.
> Trekking to Fairy Meadow; depends on the person really. Can take from 2:30 hours to 4-5 hours even. Normally it is considered a 3 hours track for an average guy (not an athlete, not regular at exercise and with limited trekking exp) For our schedual, we will consider it a 3 hours track. Starting at 11:30 you can be at Fairy Meadows by 2:30 - 3pm.
> 
> *Journey details*
> The jeep track from Raikot to Jeep point/Fairy Point is quite an experience. Narrow bumpy track with hundred of feet deep sheer drop on one side and hundreds of feet high dry mountain on the other, its a ride to remember. You look it up on google and there are many sources that will say it to be EXTREMELY dangerous, some calling it worlds second most deadliest and dangerous road. Its not saying its walk in the park really, sure is dangerous but not DEADLY DANGEROUS and you will survive InshAllah. If you have traveled to Siri Paye, you will notice that the only thing that makes it more frightening is that in siri paye you cannot see the bottom of the valley with all the forestation and stuff, plus they make you feel somewhat protected. Well, this one is barren and you get to see all the way down, some 1200-1500 feet down that is. Plus unlike Siri Paye, this track is all rocks so quite bumpy. Just pray it do not rains.
> 
> 
> View attachment 486645
> 
> The track can be seen as the thin line on the right mountains.
> .
> 
> View attachment 486646
> 
> 
> All rocks so quite bumpy but the drivers are experts really.
> 
> If all goes according to plan you will be at Jeep Point/Fairy Point (there is a small stream between these two but these are just 5 min apart) by 11:00 - 11:30pm
> 
> From here the trekking to Fairy Meadows begin. Now here is the most valuable information. The first bit of track is the difficult part really. The path is narrow and you are going up, height making it difficult to breath so you will find yourself out of breath if you do not plan this part carefully with slow, small steps and breathing through nose.
> 
> View attachment 486648
> 
> *First 40 minutes or so*
> If the tack is 3 hours, it is the firth half hour that will really knock you down, may force you to hire a horse for 3000 Rs and you will regret doing it for the next one and a half hour (that part after the starting half hour is really nothing). You are not climbing up really, the track is very wide and you reach the forested area so it is cooler and nicer. If you had managed that first thirty to forty minutes, you will be refreshed in this part. If you had hired a horse, you will be regretting it now!!
> 
> View attachment 486649
> 
> *The Easy Bit - Walking*
> This is until you are 2 hours into your trekking. The last hour again is a difficult in a sense that you are climbing up the mountain on a relatively narrow track. Its scary as hell if you are riding! [emoji38]
> Anyway, it is not very technical and most of us can make it. Wont be a big problem. The key suggestion here is that you try and make it thought the first half hour or so. That is the difficult part and once you do that the next hour and a half will give you enough energy do do the last stretch.
> 
> Anyway, 3 hours from Fairy point trekking on a path that can be divide as:
> 
> *Total Time: 3 Hours*
> 
> First 45 Minutes: Moderately Difficult with track gaining height, being narrow and all this being start of journey
> Next One and a Half Hour: Beautiful, rewarding and refreshing with very slight climb, wide path/track in the cool forest.
> Last one Hour: Difficult, climbing up a mountain, narrow.
> THIS is where you reach!
> 
> View attachment 486660
> 
> The Camp Site at Fairy Meadows is pretty nice and clean with exceptional view of Nanga Parbat. 10 min walk from there and you are in the actual Fairy Meadows.
> 
> View attachment 486662
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 486661
> 
> The view is stunning, the reflection lake (which really is a pond) offers great view and photography opportunity. The stream to the pond is unbelievable clear, cold and refreshing.
> 
> AND, you are looking at NANGA PARBAT!! What else you can ask for from a four day trip? ITS THE NINTH HIGHEST MOUNTAIN IN THE WORLD!!
> 
> View attachment 486663
> 
> *Will update a link for more pictures later.
> 
> DAY-3*
> Spend some time at fairy meadows. You can also go further up to Beyal Camp in about two hours of fairly easy trekking and from there to View Point in about another 40minutes. The views are stunning. It is suggested that you wake up early, around 6, 7am max and go up to View Point. It will take around 5 hours to 6 hours for a round trip. You can also decide to hire a horse for this route and can be back in 3 to 4 hours plus half and hour or one our at the point. However it is suggested that you move so that you are back in Fairy Meadows maximum by 2:00 pm to begin return journey
> 
> NOTE: This is a four day trip. If you have a spare day, just stay at view point for some more time, may be even try and get to base camp.
> 
> If you begin your journey at 2:00 pm you will be down by 6pm. Stay either in Jalgot or Chilas (going to Naran might be difficult as that road is not allowed to travel on after 6pm). If you plan to get back to Naran, it is suggested that you leave Fairy Meadows by 10:00 Am. Get to Raitkot by 2:30PM, Chilas by 4:30 pm and then to Babusar by 6:30 and Naran by 9:00 pm.
> *
> DAY-4*
> To cut long story short, it will take you around 10 to 12 hours to reach Lahore from Naran. Now if you want to send some time in Naran, do it on you journey back (Not when you were going to Fairy Meadows) You can easily leave Naran after Lunch and still get back to Lahore by mid night. We left early so we can get back to home in time, take some rest and freshen up for the next days work.
> 
> @Slav Defence @waz @Irfan Baloch @fatman17 @I.R.A


Very nice and inviting. Roughly 20K included everything including food etc. No hidden costs?

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## Arsalan

fatman17 said:


> Very nice and inviting. Roughly 20K included everything including food etc. No hidden costs?


Noting Sir!
We friends planned it our self initially and it was 18500 Rs. Organizer took the same amount. ALL INCLUDED.

Here are the details for a 8-10 person group.
Hiace rent for four days 30000Rs
Fuel Charges 30000Rs approximate
First night hotel in Jaglot - 2 rooms with 3 bed and one mattress each. 3500 x 2 = 7000
Jeep to Fairy Point (Return Journey) 3000Rs x 2 Jeepts = 6000Rs
Camping at Fairy Meadows - Tent with sleeping bags, ground cover, etc - 3 person per camp - 2000 x 3 = 6000RS
Third Night Hotel in Naran - 2 Rooms 5500Rs x 2 = 11000Rs
Total = 92000

Food 
Breakfast 8 x 300 = 3200Rs
Lunch 8 x 750 = 6000
Dinner 8 x 750 = 6000
Total = 15200
Total Food = 4 days x 15200 =60800

GRAND TOTAL = 92000+60800 = 152800

Dividing on 8 or 9 people it is 17000 to 19000 Rs per head.

PLUS, there is no way the food is going to cost you as much as i have included in this list. Our whole day expense for food never crossed 8000-9000 Rs (and we all love to eat). The reason is that when you have planned a trip like this one, you are always on the move and the focus shifts from food. But you can keep this money there and use it for other expenses on tea coffee snacks etc!! 

About expense, it really depends on who you are traveling with and your preferences. Last April i was with wife, we went ONLY up to Kaghan (covering Shogran and Siri Paye) and the costs for us two people was MORE than what it cost us 8 friends to go and visit Fairy Meadows for 4 days trip 
Priorities change when traveling with friends really.

NOTE: have updated the estimated expenses in the above post as well.

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## fatman17

Arsalan said:


> Noting Sir!
> We friends planned it our self initially and it was 18500 Rs. Organizer took the same amount. ALL INCLUDED.
> 
> Here are the details for a 8-10 person group.
> Hiace rent for four days 30000Rs
> Fuel Charges 30000Rs approximate
> First night hotel in Jaglot - 2 rooms with 3 bed and one mattress each. 3500 x 2 = 7000
> Jeep to Fairy Point (Return Journey) 3000Rs x 2 Jeepts = 6000Rs
> Camping at Fairy Meadows - Tent with sleeping bags, ground cover, etc - 3 person per camp - 2000 x 3 = 6000RS
> Third Night Hotel in Naran - 2 Rooms 5500Rs x 2 = 11000Rs
> Total = 92000
> 
> Food
> Breakfast 8 x 300 = 3200Rs
> Lunch 8 x 750 = 6000
> Dinner 8 x 750 = 6000
> Total = 15200
> Total Food = 4 days x 15200 =60800
> 
> GRAND TOTAL = 92000+60800 = 152800
> 
> Dividing on 8 or 9 people it is 17000 to 19000 Rs per head.
> 
> PLUS, there is no way the food is going to cost you as much as i have included in this list. Our whole day expense for food never crossed 8000-9000 Rs (and we all love to eat). The reason is that when you have planned a trip like this one, you are always on the move and the focus shifts from food. But you can keep this money there and use it for other expenses on tea coffee snacks etc!!
> 
> About expense, it really depends on who you are traveling with and your preferences. Last April i was with wife, we went ONLY up to Kaghan (covering Shogran and Siri Paye) and the costs for us two people was MORE than what it cost us 8 friends to go and visit Fairy Meadows for 4 days trip
> Priorities change when traveling with friends really.
> 
> NOTE: have updated the estimated expenses in the above post as well.



can you provide name of the operator?


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## ZAC1

Well we traveled on bike,all these areas starting from gujranwala to murree,natia gali,abbotabad,so on naran kagan,babusar,chillas,gilgit,hunza,sost,khunjrab,then naltar valley ,then skardu,deosai,astore,just returned last week.
HELL of ADVENTURE
we had our own tents,brbq stuff we cooked our food....n jungle pani

no need to hire any jeep.only advice.one bike one rider chahy 70cc bike kiyn na ho.
in these areas only honda mechanic n spares.so no tension.only tyre panchar ka saman rakho.....me n my friends use 150cc bikes so we took spares also.

no extras cloths take just parachute jackets n trousers.



View attachment 487198

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## krash

@Arsalan brilliantly done, my man. Not just the trip but your posts detailing it as well. Should the Hunzais now be expecting you next year?



Arsalan said:


> These mountains are a bit terrifying in a way, huge, dry, barren, with a monster of a river flowing at their foot, the rocks and sedimentation at the river banks gives the whole area a sense of grandeur and you get to know how insignificant you really are in the grand scheme of things.



Haha, I haven't met a single person who's seen this place and not said the exact same thing. And this feeling never leaves you either.

BTW, how hot was it? Did you get a temp reading? Last Sept, it was -5 C and snowing in Khunjerab, drove back to Karimabad, slept the night and then reached this stretch at around 4pm. The temp was 40C.



fatman17 said:


> Very nice and inviting. Roughly 20K included everything including food etc. No hidden costs?



You can actually manage it in less than 15k as well. I would not ever recommend it though, not if you can spare more.

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## Arsalan

krash said:


> @Arsalan brilliantly done, my man. Not just the trip but your posts detailing it as well. Should the Hunzais now be expecting you next year?


Well just tried to motivate others to go and visit the place and sharing as much info as possible to make their trip easy. 
Next year, it most probably will be Deosai Plains! Most likely a similar 4-5 days single destination trip. Between that and now there may well be one with the family, to a much closer location. May go up to Babusar may be or perhaps the Swat side. Not sure yet. 



> Haha, I haven't met a single person who's seen this place and not said the exact same thing. And this feeling never leaves you either.


Yeah and that really is true. I mean, green forested mountains are full of life. The ones after Chilas are barren and just a bit enormous. The feeling is surely here to stay, if someone is a keen observer, it might change him a bit as well. Asaaab p hawi ho jati hein!!



> BTW, how hot was it? Did you get a temp reading? Last Sept, it was -5 C and snowing in Khunjerab, drove back to Karimabad, slept the night and then reached this stretch at around 4pm. The temp was 40C.


HOT!!
On our way to Jalgot we passed Chilas around 4:00 - 4:30pm, it was OKish. 34-36 C.
On way back, we were there around 3:00 -4:00pm, it was HELL!! 40+

Wont recommend staying night in Chilas. Jalgot is much better esp at night and offers some stunning view of Nang Parbat early morning. The junction point is also something one can visit. All plus, no down side really. 



> You can actually manage it in less than 15k as well. I would not ever recommend it though, not if you can spare more.


 With ease! However will have to make compromise on some things like hotel rooms, person per room, may be a bit on food as well. However one will still enjoy it and make it. 18k - 20k will actually give you a pretty decent experience. 



fatman17 said:


> can you provide name of the operator?



Sure, will PM. 

ANYONE ELSE WHO NEEDS NAME OF TRAVEL OPERATOR CAN LET ME KNOW IN PM. If you are going to plan the trip yourself, can share numbers of hotel etc too (PM as i cannot advertise them on forum).



ZAC1 said:


> Well we traveled on bike,all these areas starting from gujranwala to murree,natia gali,abbotabad,so on naran kagan,babusar,chillas,gilgit,hunza,sost,khunjrab,then naltar valley ,then skardu,deosai,astore,just returned last week.
> HELL of ADVENTURE
> we had our own tents,brbq stuff we cooked our food....n jungle pani
> 
> no need to hire any jeep.only advice.one bike one rider chahy 70cc bike kiyn na ho.
> in these areas only honda mechanic n spares.so no tension.only tyre panchar ka saman rakho.....me n my friends use 150cc bikes so we took spares also.
> 
> no extras cloths take just parachute jackets n trousers.
> View attachment 487197
> View attachment 487198
> View attachment 487199
> View attachment 487200
> View attachment 487201
> 
> 
> View attachment 487203




How many days you took to cover it all?
Thank you for sharing the details (like bike recommendation, mechanics, parts etc). That was helpful. Can you also share road condition with all our members too? Also may be a detail time chart of the travel?

Like breaking the journey in days??? How much time it took you to get to muree, how long you stay there, how much time to Abbotabad? How long you stayed there? All this will really help anyone who is planning a similar journey on this route.


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## WAJsal

Arsalan said:


> Yeah and that really is true. I mean, green forested mountains are full of life. The ones after Chilas are barren and just a bit enormous. The feeling is surely here to stay, if someone is a keen observer, it might change him a bit as well. Asaaab p hawi ho jati hein!!


When we go we have to stay in a village 20-30 km's from Chilas and it's like hell really, the shops are closed after 12 pm till like 5 or 6, as you walk towards the mountains they seem to be moving away from you, the terrain makes you dizzy and at peak times you'll feel like you are hallucinating, not kidding. 


Arsalan said:


> Wont recommend staying night in Chilas. Jalgot is much better esp at night and offers some stunning view of Nang Parbat early morning. The junction point is also something one can visit. All plus, no down side really.


Jaglot river is really nice man. 


Arsalan said:


> Wont recommend staying night in Chilas.


Been there done that.


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## I.R.A

Great ........ thanks for sharing the info.




Arsalan said:


> Food
> Breakfast *8 x 300 = 3200Rs*



Yeh kaun say mulk ka hisab hy?

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## Arsalan

WAJsal said:


> When we go we have to stay in a village 20-30 km's from Chilas and it's like hell really, the shops are closed after 12 pm till like 5 or 6, as you walk towards the mountains they seem to be moving away from you, the terrain makes you dizzy and at peak times you'll feel like you are hallucinating, not kidding.


Why would you do that? Staying there?? You can easily go toward Raitkot or Jaglot or even further? Whats the catch?

As for hallucinations, 100% agreed! That is EXACTLY the kind of terrain it is!



I.R.A said:


> Great ........ thanks for sharing the info.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeh kaun say mulk ka hisab hy?


hahaha
Sorry bro, it was 400 x 8 
400 put here because it will cover your morning breakfast plus an evening tea as well.

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## ZAC1

Arsalan said:


> Well just tried to motivate others to go and visit the place and sharing as much info as possible to make their trip easy.
> Next year, it most probably will be Deosai Plains! Most likely a similar 4-5 days single destination trip. Between that and now there may well be one with the family, to a much closer location. May go up to Babusar may be or perhaps the Swat side. Not sure yet.
> 
> 
> Yeah and that really is true. I mean, green forested mountains are full of life. The ones after Chilas are barren and just a bit enormous. The feeling is surely here to stay, if someone is a keen observer, it might change him a bit as well. Asaaab p hawi ho jati hein!!
> 
> HOT!!
> On our way to Jalgot we passed Chilas around 4:00 - 4:30pm, it was OKish. 34-36 C.
> On way back, we were there around 3:00 -4:00pm, it was HELL!! 40+
> 
> Wont recommend staying night in Chilas. Jalgot is much better esp at night and offers some stunning view of Nang Parbat early morning. The junction point is also something one can visit. All plus, no down side really.
> 
> With ease! However will have to make compromise on some things like hotel rooms, person per room, may be a bit on food as well. However one will still enjoy it and make it. 18k - 20k will actually give you a pretty decent experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, will PM.
> 
> ANYONE ELSE WHO NEEDS NAME OF TRAVEL OPERATOR CAN LET ME KNOW IN PM. If you are going to plan the trip yourself, can share numbers of hotel etc too (PM as i cannot advertise them on forum).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many days you took to cover it all?
> Thank you for sharing the details (like bike recommendation, mechanics, parts etc). That was helpful. Can you also share road condition with all our members too? Also may be a detail time chart of the travel?
> 
> Like breaking the journey in days??? How much time it took you to get to muree, how long you stay there, how much time to Abbotabad? How long you stayed there? All this will really help anyone who is planning a similar journey on this route.


sorry late reply.well there is two things
1.do u want adventure
2.r do u.want to enjoy landscape
we were on road for 13 days.bikers should travel daily atleast 6 hoursdaily,should start ur travel early in the morning.dnt drive in heavy rain.
bro its diffcult for to tell u time wise.
well our first stop was before on murree road for refuling.we took snacks from their shops then we stoped at nathia gali for lunch.stayed 1 hour.then again on bikes.we drive 2 hour constantly then tea break.
at 11 we were at balakot.
TIP:FIRST DAY ON bike.u should travel more.banday first r last day hemat marta hain.

if ur going on bikes n rule is:one bike one rider rule....tu mera bhai roads are no issue.har tarhan ki terrain ho no.problem.
my personal.advice take honda 125 due to spares n mechanic.use extra beam lights.
we had a rule nobody will.go.beyound 80km speed.n we travel in a line
most experienced biker will.be the.front man n most experienced technician type friend.who have tool kit n pencture stuff will be in the last.
har bike 20 meter ka falsa rakhay ge dosrie bike.sa.
agar kisi ko.masla ho tu full haran bajao so this way we signal each other ka rukho bhai.pechay issue.ban gya hai.bcz har jaga mobile signals nai.hota.
its all about discipline

our rides was suzuki 150cc har tarhan ka track ka liya ya best bike hai...but spares gilgit ka bad nai miltay...soapna sath la jao...tu is sa achi bike pakistan.ma.nai filhal jo reasonable price ma har trhn ki.comfort r power full engine ga.honda cbf 150 n others are no.match of it.
last TIP:GROUP CHOTA RAKHO R IMATURE DOSTOUN KO.MAT LA KAR JAO.THEY WILL CAUSE YOU ALOT OF TROUBLE.like accident.de

decisions latay ho.
i will post my video soon.
bike trip is more easy then on cars.bus hemat ho r discipline.
ap hr jaga ja sakat ho.we are leaving for chitral on this eid....NEXT YEAR in summers
IA....I AM LEAVING FOR IRAN OR CHINA on my 150 suzuki. IA

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## ZAC1

bro a tent for 2 people cost u 1300 rupees only.take carpet lining for tents floor.


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## Arsalan

ZAC1 said:


> sorry late reply.well there is two things
> 1.do u want adventure
> 2.r do u.want to enjoy landscape
> we were on road for 13 days.bikers should travel daily atleast 6 hoursdaily,should start ur travel early in the morning.dnt drive in heavy rain.
> bro its diffcult for to tell u time wise.
> well our first stop was before on murree road for refuling.we took snacks from their shops then we stoped at nathia gali for lunch.stayed 1 hour.then again on bikes.we drive 2 hour constantly then tea break.
> at 11 we were at balakot.
> TIP:FIRST DAY ON bike.u should travel more.banday first r last day hemat marta hain.
> 
> if ur going on bikes n rule is:one bike one rider rule....tu mera bhai roads are no issue.har tarhan ki terrain ho no.problem.
> my personal.advice take honda 125 due to spares n mechanic.use extra beam lights.
> we had a rule nobody will.go.beyound 80km speed.n we travel in a line
> most experienced biker will.be the.front man n most experienced technician type friend.who have tool kit n pencture stuff will be in the last.
> har bike 20 meter ka falsa rakhay ge dosrie bike.sa.
> agar kisi ko.masla ho tu full haran bajao so this way we signal each other ka rukho bhai.pechay issue.ban gya hai.bcz har jaga mobile signals nai.hota.
> its all about discipline
> 
> our rides was suzuki 150cc har tarhan ka track ka liya ya best bike hai...but spares gilgit ka bad nai miltay...soapna sath la jao...tu is sa achi bike pakistan.ma.nai filhal jo reasonable price ma har trhn ki.comfort r power full engine ga.honda cbf 150 n others are no.match of it.
> last TIP:GROUP CHOTA RAKHO R IMATURE DOSTOUN KO.MAT LA KAR JAO.THEY WILL CAUSE YOU ALOT OF TROUBLE.like accident.de
> 
> decisions latay ho.
> i will post my video soon.While posting videos, it is requested that you post them in a single post please? We need to keep this thread MORE about information sharing and trip planning rather than pics and videos. So if you must, please share the videos in a single post. Thanks a lot.



Great! So it took 13 days for whole journey. That sounds manageable! 

As for time scheduled, i didn't meant to share hourly details. If you can only share the nights spent, like first night in Balakot, Second at Babusar etc, that will do. Will enable people to plan their trip accordingly or may be even decide on destination (if they cannot spare 14 days)

For videos, please try and share in a single post rather than multiple posts. The idea of this thread is to keep it to information sharing and providing a guide for other members to plan their trips not to share pictures and videos. Still it will be best if you can share a video or two but please in a single post and also if possible with the above requested information. Again, it will be best if we keep this thread INFORMATION oriented! Thank you. 



WAJsal said:


> No it's very remote, you don't even get electricity there...at least not the last time i went there. Go till Hunza or Ghizer, Ghizer is a hidden treasure, abhi toh kuch nahein dekha apney.


True, but i can just take it one at a time.  The best i can manage is one trip per year! You need a LIFE to explore all those areas. Nanga Parbat was a fascination (plus i destination not easy to go to with family) so this year we went there. 

About Ghizer, you know about the avalanche? A crisis might be brewing as it cut off the river and turned it into a lake. Allah khair kry!

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## k s ahmed

hello hello 
i have been trying to hold of some local tour operator who is reliable and can help me trek through himalayas to k2 base camp and possibly snow lake. But i find it impossible to get hold of people in pakistan, when i am not based in pakistan. i think people neeed to pay more attention to communication . 
Do you guys know any reliable operator /guide whom i can talk to at least?


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## ghazi52

About

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Typically replies within a few hours
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www.k2basecamptrekking.com




Hiking Trail · Tour Agency · Tourist Information Center



k s ahmed said:


> hello hello
> i have been trying to hold of some local tour operator who is reliable and can help me trek through himalayas to k2 base camp and possibly snow lake. But i find it impossible to get hold of people in pakistan, when i am not based in pakistan. i think people neeed to pay more attention to communication .
> Do you guys know any reliable operator /guide whom i can talk to at least?

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## Arsalan

Sallam! So people, its summer time and that means it is time to plan the next trip 

@krash @I.R.A @WAJsal @fatman17 
So people, any tips? guide lines? Will be going to visit Deosai InshAllah this time. If you can think of any Do's and Dont's please do share. Some basic details of our trip MAY be:

7-8 people 

Wednesday to Sunday trip (4 days essentially as we leave late night Wednesday)
Will get transport on rent rather than driving in two separate cars.
Wont be carrying tents/sleeping bags 
So the info i will need for now:

Can you find hut/tent in Deosai or do we rent them in Astore? 

Food
Any other suggestion then please share. 

@atya saw you planning a trip to Pakistan and discussing that on another thread. Some of the posts here might help you.



ghazi52 said:


> About
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/K2BaseCamp...C_mwuuYLOcj-67EchPYlnifcjc_by1uvoTN4KCc4Z7FOR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +92 346 1153423
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typically replies within a few hours
> Send Message
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.k2basecamptrekking.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hiking Trail · Tour Agency · Tourist Information Center


Are they reliable? 
Have you used them??

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## I.R.A

@krash @Arsalan @DESERT FIGHTER 

Saturday to Saturday. Three Kids (10,7.5 and 5), two adults, toyota altis, the main goal ...... best sight seeing and outing for the kids, meadows, lakes, reasonable trekking etc. Please help me choose 


All the way to Hunza, including a night stay at Bata Kundi (driving on that Naran Kaghan Babu Sar road). Or
Neelum valley. Honestly I have never been to Kashmir and don't know much, internet didn't help much

If it's Hunza what should I plan for, including which hotels / guest houses to book, which places to visit, I don't mind hiring a 4x4 from there to any place, but the destination should be a place where kids can enjoy their stay, run around, trek a little, sight seeing, water lakes etc ..... 

and if it's Neelum the same ..... which places, hotels, roads to travel etc.

I will be driving my own car, how much cash should I carry for stay, meals, 4x4 hiring charges etc. And availability of petrol on both routes.

Will really appreciate the suggestions and advice. Thanks

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## DESERT FIGHTER

I.R.A said:


> @krash @Arsalan @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> Saturday to Saturday. Three Kids (10,7.5 and 5), two adults, toyota altis, the main goal ...... best sight seeing and outing for the kids, meadows, lakes, reasonable trekking etc. Please help me choose
> 
> 
> All the way to Hunza, including a night stay at Bata Kundi (driving on that Naran Kaghan Babu Sar road). Or
> Neelum valley. Honestly I have never been to Kashmir and don't know much, internet didn't help much
> 
> If it's Hunza what should I plan for, including which hotels / guest houses to book, which places to visit, I don't mind hiring a 4x4 from there to any place, but the destination should be a place where kids can enjoy their stay, run around, trek a little, sight seeing, water lakes etc .....
> 
> and if it's Neelum the same ..... which places, hotels, roads to travel etc.
> 
> I will be driving my own car, how much cash should I carry for stay, meals, 4x4 hiring charges etc. And availability of petrol on both routes.
> 
> Will really appreciate the suggestions and advice. Thanks


100+k.

Il share my plan, which was hatched during the travelling. 
I Started from KPK, inlaws house.

Stayed a night at PTDC naran, best view (its on the river bank).. but per night i could have done better and stayed at narand sole 4 star hotel.

But I called someone to make a reservation when i was already at Abbotabad.

Next day I went straight to Gilgit (useless travelling) and than to Hunza. (Hunza is only 2:30hours drive from gilgit).


Valley is on the way (you have to hire a jeep for that).

Spend a night or a day at Naltar and than to Hunza.
Forts,attabad lake and than back to gilgit.

The next day I went to Skardu. I stayed in Skardu for 3-4 days.. 2 lakes to see in Skardu, lower kachura (heart shaped one u see— its over rated) and upper.

Visited shigar fort, serena hotel and than to the waterfall.

Next day Deosai— lakes and beautiful plains— awesome for camping.

From skardu I went to Astore-rama meadows and back.


I personally loved Skardu more than Hunza and would advise you to go to Astore from Naran.

Stay a day or two, visit rama meadows and than to skardu, deosai,shigar, waterfall etc.

Skardu itself is worth seeing. Buddha carvings, beautiful indus etc.

Dont worry about meals/food.. you will find stalls/shops and hotels all over the place.

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## Arsalan

I.R.A said:


> @krash @Arsalan @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> Saturday to Saturday. Three Kids (10,7.5 and 5), two adults, toyota altis, the main goal ...... best sight seeing and outing for the kids, meadows, lakes, reasonable trekking etc. Please help me choose
> 
> 
> All the way to Hunza, including a night stay at Bata Kundi (driving on that Naran Kaghan Babu Sar road). Or
> Neelum valley. Honestly I have never been to Kashmir and don't know much, internet didn't help much
> 
> If it's Hunza what should I plan for, including which hotels / guest houses to book, which places to visit, I don't mind hiring a 4x4 from there to any place, but the destination should be a place where kids can enjoy their stay, run around, trek a little, sight seeing, water lakes etc .....
> 
> and if it's Neelum the same ..... which places, hotels, roads to travel etc.
> 
> I will be driving my own car, how much cash should I carry for stay, meals, 4x4 hiring charges etc. And availability of petrol on both routes.
> 
> Will really appreciate the suggestions and advice. Thanks


I have not been to Kashmir much, just a couple of visits to Kotli and areas around LoC like tata pani etc. Cannot help much in this.

My vote will definitely be for Hunza. You are in Islamabad right now? Will be traveling from Isb? @I.R.A asking this because then i can suggest in a better way!

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> My vote will definitely be for Hunza. You are in Islamabad right now? Will be traveling from Isb?



Yes I will be travelling from Isb.




DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Stayed a night at PTDC naran, best view (its on the river bank).. but per night i could have done better and stayed at narand sole 4 star hotel.
> 
> But I called someone to make a reservation when i was already at Abbotabad.



I have no intentions of stopping in Naran, I intend to make a stop over at Bata Kundi at night and next morning start my travel and reach Hunza or Naltar (which comes first?)



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Valley is on the way (you have to hire a jeep for that).
> 
> Spend a night or a day at Naltar and than to Hunza.



Will I be able to get at spot hotel / guest house booking in Naltar, keeping in mind I have a family with me?

And the other issue I will have to park my car somewhere do they have paid parking arrangements?

I have no intention of staying in Gilgit, it's same hot and useless yar.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I personally loved Skardu more than Hunza and would advise you to go to Astore from Naran.



I have chaddi buddy in Skardu who has been inviting me, specially for Deo Sai, but I keep Skardu off list because kids are still young and then I have heard that road to Skardu isn't that good?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

I.R.A said:


> Yes I will be travelling from Isb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no intentions of stopping in Naran, I intend to make a stop over at Bata Kundi at night and next morning start my travel and reach Hunza or Naltar (which comes first?)


There are plenty of guest houses at bata kundi. i dont know about reservation but im sure you will easily find a room. However Id advise you to reach there before evening.



> Will I be able to get at spot hotel / guest house booking in Naltar, keeping in mind I have a family with me?
> 
> And the other issue I will have to park my car somewhere do they have paid parking arrangements?
> 
> I have no intention of staying in Gilgit, it's same hot and useless yar.
> 
> 
> 
> I have chaddi buddy in Skardu who has been inviting me, specially for Deo Sai, but I keep Skardu off list because kids are still young and then I have heard that road to Skardu isn't that good?



Naltar comes first, its a detour from main road leading to Hunza.

You will find parking spots there no problem.

Lala, skardu and deosai is love.

Road was in bad condition but I managed it on a honda civic (ap k pass tou phir altis ha).. and apart from that we were expecting our first child.

My advice:

Naran - astore- rama meadows (there is a PTDC report there too)
Or Naran- Skardu- surrounding areas + deosai.

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## I.R.A

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lala, skardu and deosai is love.
> 
> Road was in bad condition but I managed it on a honda civic (ap k pass tou phir altis ha).. and apart from that we were expecting our first child.



Yar mujay apni lado say pyar bohat hy iss liay dil ko kuch kuch hota hy. Hala kay kai dafa Shogran k uss pateechar road pay ly k gya ho oper.

Thank you yar for the valuable suggestions and information, I think I will decide once I reach Hunza if me family has some more stamina to travel to Skardu.

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## Arsalan

I.R.A said:


> Yes I will be travelling from Isb.


You are traveling with family, young kids so your focus should be on a relaxed trip. Here is what i will suggest;

*Saturday:* Departure from Islamabad at around 8:00AM, via motorway it will take you around 4 to 5 hours MAX with a couple of road side stop overs to reach Kaghan. Make your first stop early, your holidays have started and no need to get kids tired so early. Plus i will highly recommend you to stay at Arcadian Hotel in Kaghan (a few kilometers before Kaghan town). It is an excellent hotel, great food, good location! I stayed there, loved it. Make it your first stop. Another plus is that you can add a trip to Shogran in this schedule. You will be at Kawai around 12:00 so you can take a jeep up to Shogran, spend a few hours there, come down around Asr/Maghrib and drive 30 min to Arcadian. 
*Hotel may cost your around 4600-5000 a night
*Jeep to Shogran should be around 2500-3000Rs

I know it may all sound boring but try it, you will like this relaxed start. Plus you will see how this day was NOT WASTED if you keep reading. 


*Sunday:* Early morning departure. Dont stop at Naran, skip it. You can stop at Lulusar Lake on way for early lunch (will take around 2 to 3 hours from Kaghan. At batakundi you wont find a nice hotel suitable for family. There are some tent/camp sites but again, you are with kids. I will skip stay in Batakundi. You have had a relaxed start, if you leave around 7:00AM you can drive all the way up to Babusar by 1:00 PM easily with an hour stay at Lulusar and a couple of other road side stops if required. Stop at Babusar for some snacks etc. From Babusar to Chilas you need 3 hours to 4 hours. Will suggest you make 15-20 min stop at couple of spots, there are some nice streams along the way. Stop there for a few minutes and it will help cool off your car brakes too. Kids will enjoy here.




June 2018
Plus, this is good weather zone, once you are in Chilas it will be HOT!! Any, you can easily reach Chilas around 5:00 and from there a further 2 hours to Raitkot bridge. Cross the raikot bridge reach Jaglot around 8:00PM. There is again a very nice hotel called "junction resort" a few Km before Jaglot. It is about 5-6 Km before the point where all three mountain ranges meet (famous spot). Stay there. Its nice and clean and CHEAP. Plus again, EXCELLENT FOOD. Have amazing view of Nangaparbat. Stay here for the night. You wont be very tired because your first day was not hectic and also because you have enough time to take breaks from Kaghan all the way to here. Have a good night's sleep and if its full moon enjoy the view, otherwise wait till morning. 

See, this was taken from the hotel 




June 2018
*MAN I LOVE THIS MOUNTAIN!! *
* hotel should cost you around 2600-3000 per night.*

Monday: *It is about two and a half hour from this spot to Gilgit and further 2 and a half hour from Gilgit to Hunza. Personally, i will recommend you go to Naltar, stay a night there (dont know if you can find a hotel to book on phone but pretty you will find one when you are there, still, family, i suggest you look up this info or talk to someone). 
** *No idea about hotel rates
*
Tuesday:* Drive to Hunza, now you are at your main destination. Frankly, i wont suggest you places to see in Hunza or around it. You know about them all already, visit the fort, the valley, try the fruits and food, enjoy the scenery. There is a lot to do there.
*hotel should cost you around 3000-3500 Rs per night.*

Wednesday: *Stay put in Hunza or decide on a day spot to go to from Hunza. It all depends on how much you and the family are enjoying this place, decide accordingly. There is so much to do and see there, I will suggest you stay in Hunza and just enjoy this place. 
*
Thursday EXTREME:* Go to Attabad lake, cross it to Karimabad. If i were you, i will go all the way up to Khunjrab, you can go there in your car and be back by night to Karmimabad. Stay there for night. 
*Thursday LIGHT: *Go visit Attabad, enjoy the lake and make it back to Gilgit or even Jaglot.
*
Friday:* Start your journey back to Islamabad with a night stay planned for either Naran or a less suitable hotel around Batakundi or Kaghan.

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## I.R.A

@Arsalan hmmmmm makes sense. I have taken the kids twice to Babusar already, siri paye, lulusar, piyala, lalazar all done and seen (dudipatsar, makra and ansoo when they hit their teen), so this time we were thinking to cross babusar and go further north. My initial plan was to spend as much time as possible in exploring those new places that's why I wanted to skip Naran. Interestingly I have never made a stop at Kaghan, but your plan is wise, obviously I have to make stops for cooling the brakes and taking some rest ..... so stop at Kaghan makes sense.


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## Arsalan

I.R.A said:


> @Arsalan hmmmmm makes sense. I have taken the kids twice to Babusar already, siri paye, lulusar, piyala, lalazar all done and seen (dudipatsar, makra and ansoo when they hit their teen), so this time we were thinking to cross babusar and go further north. My initial plan was to spend as much time as possible in exploring those new places that's why I wanted to skip Naran. Interestingly I have never made a stop at Kaghan, but your plan is wise, obviously I have to make stops for cooling the brakes and taking some rest ..... so stop at Kaghan makes sense.


Bus phr, make your trip to Kaghan a short one so you can launch from there the next day all the way to Jaglot. Plus again, i really recommend staying at Arcadian. Its a nice place. Its on other side of river (you cross a bridge to get to it). Search it on map. 

From kaghan you can get to Jaglot easily in a day with enough stops on the way. From there you can get to Hunza in 4-5 hours easily. For rest of your tour, when you are in Hunza, just go with the mood. Either stay there and just enjoy the place or you can drive up to the border as well. Do visit Naltar valley!

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> Bus phr, make your trip to Kaghan a short one so you can launch from there the next day all the way to Jaglot. Plus again, i really recommend staying at Arcadian. Its a nice place. Its on other side of river (you cross a bridge to get to it). Search it on map.
> 
> From kaghan you can get to Jaglot easily in a day with enough stops on the way. From there you can get to Hunza in 4-5 hours easily. For rest of your tour, when you are in Hunza, just go with the mood. Either stay there and just enjoy the place or you can drive up to the border as well. Do visit Naltar valley!



Okay ho gya boss. Arcadian, Jaglot, Naltar, Hunza and Khunjrab too. Insha ALLAH.

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## Arsalan

I.R.A said:


> Okay ho gya boss. Arcadian, Jaglot, Naltar, Hunza and Khunjrab too. Insha ALLAH.


Best of luck. Take a few pictures for us too and please share a detailed account for others once you are back

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> Best of luck. Take a few pictures for us too and please share a detailed account for others once you are back



Insha ALLAH.


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## Arsalan

I.R.A said:


> Insha ALLAH.


So you went ahead with your plan or is it pending for now?

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> So you went ahead with your plan or is it pending for now?



I reached back this last Saturday. Well here is how it went

July 13th. The starting date of my journey. I had all stay bookings made with PTDC (Naran, Hunza, Gupis and back to Naran), so from Islamabad to Naran it was usual trip (I was driving Auto Toyota Altis 2012) stopped at Macdonald near Qalandarbad (Mansehra) for lunch, stopped at Balakot for refill and reached Naran in the evening (I would suggest if you plan to make stay arrangements at PTDC Naran, well I would prefer a private hotel at Saiful Maluk road .... PTDC is okay okay bus).

July 14th, Started travelling towards Hunza. Stopped near Lulu Sar and then all the way to KKH, made a stop there to refill and oh God that place was freaking hot .... once you have descended from Babu Sar Top and reached KKH the road from Chilas to Raikot is in pretty much bad condition, dusty, rough and hot (I would strictly recommend that if you are travelling during this period in that area wear full sleeves and have your head covered). From Raikot to lower Hunza roads are in good condition, you will find plenty of fuel stations on your way so need to worry (and interestingly petrol is two three rupees cheaper in those areas compared to rest of Pakistan), well my stay was at PTDC Aliabad ..... and it was an utter disappointment, I don't know I feel like lower Hunza is overrated and has nothing much to offer, it was hot, dusty and suffers from water shortage (they use glacier water that is dirty as hell) and PTDC there is bakwas. The places that you can visit in a day's time in lower hunza are Baltit and Altit fort and eagle's nest. We tried local dishes for our lunch and dinner, lunch was tasty and dinner was at a renowned restaurant there in Karimabad (Hidden Paradise) ... the taste wasn't good. If you are looking for local dishes I would recommend you eat them from women run cafes. Dry fruit is cheap, meals are cheap and majority people there are nice. Upper Hunza is your go to place, cheaper than lower Hunza and has much more to offer, on your way you will cross those tunnels and then arrive at Attabad lake, enjoy boat rides there and then you may go further up, when you reach the Borith lake spot hire a jeep / diesel run car and ask the driver to take you close to Passu glacier (it involves a bit of hike and trek once you have reached Borith lake, my youngest is now 5 years and he managed it, but its worth it instead seeing the glacier at a distance from main road, you will get to view it up close) once you come back from glacier stop at Borith lake and enjoy a boat ride, again its cheaper compared to Attabad. I started my journey back to Aliabad and didn't go all the way to Khunjarab. If you ask me I would strongly suggest that you stay at upper Hunza if you visit that area.

On 17th, Started travelling towards Gupis (ghizer district), it's a 5 hours drive at minimum, road from Huza to Gilgit is in very good condition but once you start travelling at Gahcooch road, it's in poor condition all the way to wherever you wish to go from there, however it has much more to offer in terms of scenery compared to Hunza. Ghizer is not that modern like Hunza, but its peaceful, you will see lots of springs, lakes (where river bank gets widened it forms sort of a lake, but no boating), if you are into fishing carry a fishing rod with you. PTDC Gupis is the best place, at a very good location and very well maintained. From Gupis I went to Phunder valley (2 hours min drive) .... and from there you can continue to go to Shandoor Chitral (which I didn't). Overall Ghizer is better than Hunza (in my opinion).

On 19th I started early and reached Naran PTDC, making long stops at Babu Sar, Gaitidass. The road back from KKH to Babu Sar is steep, I would recommend that during this season travelling to any of these areas you stop for five to ten minutes after every one or two hours to let your car's engine, brake discs and pads to cool down a bit.

The negatives ......... you won't find milestones / direction boards in those areas specially Gilgit when you need them the most, and somehow I saw the worst misuse and abuse of Green Number plate Vehicles (it seemed like every other shehzada and babu was there with a police party don't know what to make of this naya Pakistan, the slogan was 2 nai 1 Pakistan .... but now I feel like stranger in my own country).

@Khafee @Shane @PakSword @Dubious in case anyone of you is interested in travelling to those parts I am always available to share information.


*TIME CHART*
*Islamabad to Abbottabad* ..... take Kashmir Highway and all the way to Hazara motorway, for the time being Shah Maqsood interchange is the only exit on Hazara motorway and from there you connect with the old road. From Islamabad to Shah Maqsood it should take you 1:30 hrs max .... and after that the road is single with two way traffic and it limits your speed, if you are lucky you can reach Abbottabad in another 1:30 hrs ...... but if its your unlucky day it may take you 3 hrs or more to reach Abbottabad from Shah Maqsood.

However, they are planning to fully make the Hazara Motorway operation in August this year. So that may reduce your travel time significantly and increase the comfort in travelling to Abbottabad.

*From Abbottabad to Naran* ........ it depends on your driving skills and how much you are used to travelling in hilly mountainous roads. If you are a first timer with relevant experience it should take you 1:30 hrs max to reach Balakot, and from Balakot to Kiwai around 1 hr and from Kiwai to Malakandi another 1 hr and from Malakandi to Naran 2 hrs. You may add your stay time to it ....... but if you have left Islamabad at around 10 am you should be able to reach Naran by 7 pm ... including your stays.

*Naran to Babusar* ......... again your driving skills and experience count, the road has got some nasty patches and plus it depends which time of the year you have chosen to travel there ...... June July you will witness glaciers on the road side, Sept Oct you won't find those glaciers and traffic load also varies in different times. However, that journey is 4 hrs.

*Babusar to Chilas* ......... that side remains closed from November thru March April or max early July. Road is good but with lots of curves and steep. The speed limit remains 30km/hr so it may take you min. 2 hrs to reach the KKH and Babusar road junction

*Chilas to Raikot* .......... hot, dusty and road is in very bad condition with curves and huge mountains at one side and river running at other. If you drive recklessly you may reach Raikot in 1.30 hrs but if you drive carefully you will reach there in 2 hrs.

*Raikot to Juglot* .......... road is very good and it may take you 30 to 40 minutes to reach Jaglot.

*Juglot to Gilgit* .......... road remains good and max an hour or early

*Gilgit to Hunza* ........ road remains good and min 2 hrs to reach Hunza

*Hunza to Ghizer *....... you will first have to come back to Gilgit which will take the same min 2 hrs and from Gilgit you will take Ghahcooch road. Road is narrow and hmmmm okay with some very bad patches and lots of potholes. On your journey towards Ghizer region, you will have the river running in opposite direction and alongside the road. It should take you min 2:30 hrs to reach Gupis and 6 hrs to reach Phuder valley from Gilgit.

Your return journey from every spot may take little less time, as you would already be aware of the road.

*A tip for people who haven't driven vehicles in that area ......... please use proper gears, while you are descending keep your vehicle's acceleration in check with lower gears, don't try top gears at all ........ if its sunny try making a stop after every 1 or 2 hrs .... that would let your disc pads and drums cool down ..... which in turn helps with better grip while braking.*

*And before going to that area check oil(s) and battery life / water, clutch plate plus timing belt.*

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## Ahmet Pasha

Allama Iqbal Intl Airport management had the bright idea of making plastic wrap mandatory for Travelers and Tourists. 

That will surely leave a lasting impression on travelers visiting the country.

50Rs a piece
So $0.50???

I wonder what "afsar" came up with this ingenious idea.


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## Arsalan

I.R.A said:


> I reached back this last Saturday. Well here is how it went
> 
> July 13th. The starting date of my journey. I had all stay bookings made with PTDC (Naran, Hunza, Gupis and back to Naran), so from Islamabad to Naran it was usual trip (I was driving Auto Toyota Altis 2012) stopped at Macdonald near Qalandarbad (Mansehra) for lunch, stopped at Balakot for refill and reached Naran in the evening (I would suggest if you plan to make stay arrangements at PTDC Naran, well I would prefer a private hotel at Saiful Maluk road .... PTDC is okay okay bus).
> 
> July 14th, Started travelling towards Hunza. Stopped near Lulu Sar and then all the way to KKH, made a stop there to refill and oh God that place was freaking hot .... once you have descended from Babu Sar Top and reached KKH the road from Chilas to Raikot is in pretty much bad condition, dusty, rough and hot (I would strictly recommend that if you are travelling during this period in that area wear full sleeves and have your head covered). From Raikot to lower Hunza roads are in good condition, you will find plenty of fuel stations on your way so need to worry (and interestingly petrol is two three rupees cheaper in those areas compared to rest of Pakistan), well my stay was at PTDC Aliabad ..... and it was an utter disappointment, I don't know I feel like lower Hunza is overrated and has nothing much to offer, it was hot, dusty and suffers from water shortage (they use glacier water that is dirty as hell) and PTDC there is bakwas. The places that you can visit in a day's time in lower hunza are Baltit and Altit fort and eagle's nest. We tried local dishes for our lunch and dinner, lunch was tasty and dinner was at a renowned restaurant there in Karimabad (Hidden Paradise) ... the taste wasn't good. If you are looking for local dishes I would recommend you eat them from women run cafes. Dry fruit is cheap, meals are cheap and majority people there are nice. Upper Hunza is your go to place, cheaper than lower Hunza and has much more to offer, on your way you will cross those tunnels and then arrive at Attabad lake, enjoy boat rides there and then you may go further up, when you reach the Borith lake spot hire a jeep / diesel run car and ask the driver to take you close to Passu glacier (it involves a bit of hike and trek once you have reached Borith lake, my youngest is now 5 years and he managed it, but its worth it instead seeing the glacier at a distance from main road, you will get to view it up close) once you come back from glacier stop at Borith lake and enjoy a boat ride, again its cheaper compared to Attabad. I started my journey back to Aliabad and didn't go all the way to Khunjarab. If you ask me I would strongly suggest that you stay at upper Hunza if you visit that area.
> 
> On 17th, Started travelling towards Gupis (ghizer district), it's a 5 hours drive at minimum, road from Huza to Gilgit is in very good condition but once you start travelling at Gahcooch road, it's in poor condition all the way to wherever you wish to go from there, however it has much more to offer in terms of scenery compared to Hunza. Ghizer is not that modern like Hunza, but its peaceful, you will see lots of springs, lakes (where river bank gets widened it forms sort of a lake, but no boating), if you are into fishing carry a fishing rod with you. PTDC Gupis is the best place, at a very good location and very well maintained. From Gupis I went to Phunder valley (2 hours min drive) .... and from there you can continue to go to Shandoor Chitral (which I didn't). Overall Ghizer is better than Hunza (in my opinion).
> 
> On 19th I started early and reached Naran PTDC, making long stops at Babu Sar, Gaitidass. The road back from KKH to Babu Sar is steep, I would recommend that during this season travelling to any of these areas you stop for five to ten minutes after every one or two hours to let your car's engine, brake discs and pads to cool down a bit.
> 
> The negatives ......... you won't find milestones / direction boards in those areas specially Gilgit when you need them the most, and somehow I saw the worst misuse and abuse of Green Number plate Vehicles (it seemed like every other shehzada and babu was there with a police party don't know what to make of this naya Pakistan, the slogan was 2 nai 1 Pakistan .... but now I feel like stranger in my own country).
> 
> @Khafee @Shane @PakSword @Dubious in case anyone of you is interested in travelling to those parts I am always available to share information.
> 
> *TIME CHART
> Islamabad to Abbottabad* ..... take Kashmir Highway and all the way to Hazara motorway, for the time being Shah Maqsood interchange is the only exit on Hazara motorway and from there you connect with the old road. From Islamabad to Shah Maqsood it should take you 1:30 hrs max .... and after that the road is single with two way traffic and it limits your speed, if you are lucky you can reach Abbottabad in another 1:30 hrs ...... but if its your unlucky day it may take you 3 hrs or more to reach Abbottabad from Shah Maqsood.
> 
> However, they are planning to fully make the Hazara Motorway operation in August this year. So that may reduce your travel time significantly and increase the comfort in travelling to Abbottabad.
> 
> *From Abbottabad to Naran* ........ it depends on your driving skills and how much you are used to travelling in hilly mountainous roads. If you are a first timer with relevant experience it should take you 1:30 hrs max to reach Balakot, and from Balakot to Kiwai around 1 hr and from Kiwai to Malakandi another 1 hr and from Malakandi to Naran 2 hrs. You may add your stay time to it ....... but if you have left Islamabad at around 10 am you should be able to reach Naran by 7 pm ... including your stays.
> 
> *Naran to Babusar* ......... again your driving skills and experience count, the road has got some nasty patches and plus it depends which time of the year you have chosen to travel there ...... June July you will witness glaciers on the road side, Sept Oct you won't find those glaciers and traffic load also varies in different times. However, that journey is 4 hrs.
> 
> *Babusar to Chilas* ......... that side remains closed from November thru March April or max early July. Road is good but with lots of curves and steep. The speed limit remains 30km/hr so it may take you min. 2 hrs to reach the KKH and Babusar road junction
> 
> *Chilas to Raikot* .......... hot, dusty and road is in very bad condition with curves and huge mountains at one side and river running at other. If you drive recklessly you may reach Raikot in 1.30 hrs but if you drive carefully you will reach there in 2 hrs.
> 
> *Raikot to Juglot* .......... road is very good and it may take you 30 to 40 minutes to reach Jaglot.
> 
> *Juglot to Gilgit* .......... road remains good and max an hour or early
> 
> *Gilgit to Hunza* ........ road remains good and min 2 hrs to reach Hunza
> 
> *Hunza to Ghizer *....... you will first have to come back to Gilgit which will take the same min 2 hrs and from Gilgit you will take Ghahcooch road. Road is narrow and hmmmm okay with some very bad patches and lots of potholes. On your journey towards Ghizer region, you will have the river running in opposite direction and alongside the road. It should take you min 2:30 hrs to reach Gupis and 6 hrs to reach Phuder valley from Gilgit.
> 
> Your return journey from every spot may take little less time, as you would already be aware of the road.
> 
> *A tip for people who haven't driven vehicles in that area ......... please use proper gears, while you are descending keep your vehicle's acceleration in check with lower gears, don't try top gears at all ........ if its sunny try making a stop after every 1 or 2 hrs .... that would let your disc pads and drums cool down ..... which in turn helps with better grip while braking.*
> 
> *And before going to that area check oil(s) and battery life / water, clutch plate plus timing belt.*


Excellent.
So it seems you traveled up to Attabad then and explored Hunza and Ghizer in this tour. Didnt went all the way to Khunjerab Pass? Makes sense since you were with kids. How about Naltar? you managed to go there?

Questions;
PTDC hotel reservations. How to manage that?
Recommended food



As for my trip, we have faced another week delay now. With the rainy season coming i fear we may have to cancel the trip altogether!  Lets see.




> *TIME CHART
> Islamabad to Abbottabad* ..... take Kashmir Highway and all the way to Hazara motorway, for the time being Shah Maqsood interchange is the only exit on Hazara motorway and from there you connect with the old road. From Islamabad to Shah Maqsood it should take you 1:30 hrs max .... and after that the road is single with two way traffic and it limits your speed, if you are lucky you can reach Abbottabad in another 1:30 hrs ...... but if its your unlucky day it may take you 3 hrs or more to reach Abbottabad from Shah Maqsood.
> 
> However, they are planning to fully make the Hazara Motorway operation in August this year. So that may reduce your travel time significantly and increase the comfort in travelling to Abbottabad.
> 
> *From Abbottabad to Naran* ........ it depends on your driving skills and how much you are used to travelling in hilly mountainous roads. If you are a first timer with relevant experience it should take you 1:30 hrs max to reach Balakot, and from Balakot to Kiwai around 1 hr and from Kiwai to Malakandi another 1 hr and from Malakandi to Naran 2 hrs. You may add your stay time to it ....... but if you have left Islamabad at around 10 am you should be able to reach Naran by 7 pm ... including your stays.
> 
> *Naran to Babusar* ......... again your driving skills and experience count, the road has got some nasty patches and plus it depends which time of the year you have chosen to travel there ...... June July you will witness glaciers on the road side, Sept Oct you won't find those glaciers and traffic load also varies in different times. However, that journey is 4 hrs.
> 
> *Babusar to Chilas* ......... that side remains closed from November thru March April or max early July. Road is good but with lots of curves and steep. The speed limit remains 30km/hr so it may take you min. 2 hrs to reach the KKH and Babusar road junction
> 
> *Chilas to Raikot* .......... hot, dusty and road is in very bad condition with curves and huge mountains at one side and river running at other. If you drive recklessly you may reach Raikot in 1.30 hrs but if you drive carefully you will reach there in 2 hrs.
> 
> *Raikot to Juglot* .......... road is very good and it may take you 30 to 40 minutes to reach Jaglot.
> 
> *Juglot to Gilgit* .......... road remains good and max an hour or early
> 
> *Gilgit to Hunza* ........ road remains good and min 2 hrs to reach Hunza
> 
> *Hunza to Ghizer *....... you will first have to come back to Gilgit which will take the same min 2 hrs and from Gilgit you will take Ghahcooch road. Road is narrow and hmmmm okay with some very bad patches and lots of potholes. On your journey towards Ghizer region, you will have the river running in opposite direction and alongside the road. It should take you min 2:30 hrs to reach Gupis and 6 hrs to reach Phuder valley from Gilgit.
> 
> Your return journey from every spot may take little less time, as you would already be aware of the road.
> 
> *A tip for people who haven't driven vehicles in that area ......... please use proper gears, while you are descending keep your vehicle's acceleration in check with lower gears, don't try top gears at all ........ if its sunny try making a stop after every 1 or 2 hrs .... that would let your disc pads and drums cool down ..... which in turn helps with better grip while braking.*
> 
> *And before going to that area check oil(s) and battery life / water, clutch plate plus timing belt.*


Brilliant!! Thanks a lot for this bro.

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## Shane

I.R.A said:


> I reached back this last Saturday. Well here is how it went
> 
> July 13th. The starting date of my journey. I had all stay bookings made with PTDC (Naran, Hunza, Gupis and back to Naran), so from Islamabad to Naran it was usual trip (I was driving Auto Toyota Altis 2012) stopped at Macdonald near Qalandarbad (Mansehra) for lunch, stopped at Balakot for refill and reached Naran in the evening (I would suggest if you plan to make stay arrangements at PTDC Naran, well I would prefer a private hotel at Saiful Maluk road .... PTDC is okay okay bus).
> 
> July 14th, Started travelling towards Hunza. Stopped near Lulu Sar and then all the way to KKH, made a stop there to refill and oh God that place was freaking hot .... once you have descended from Babu Sar Top and reached KKH the road from Chilas to Raikot is in pretty much bad condition, dusty, rough and hot (I would strictly recommend that if you are travelling during this period in that area wear full sleeves and have your head covered). From Raikot to lower Hunza roads are in good condition, you will find plenty of fuel stations on your way so need to worry (and interestingly petrol is two three rupees cheaper in those areas compared to rest of Pakistan), well my stay was at PTDC Aliabad ..... and it was an utter disappointment, I don't know I feel like lower Hunza is overrated and has nothing much to offer, it was hot, dusty and suffers from water shortage (they use glacier water that is dirty as hell) and PTDC there is bakwas. The places that you can visit in a day's time in lower hunza are Baltit and Altit fort and eagle's nest. We tried local dishes for our lunch and dinner, lunch was tasty and dinner was at a renowned restaurant there in Karimabad (Hidden Paradise) ... the taste wasn't good. If you are looking for local dishes I would recommend you eat them from women run cafes. Dry fruit is cheap, meals are cheap and majority people there are nice. Upper Hunza is your go to place, cheaper than lower Hunza and has much more to offer, on your way you will cross those tunnels and then arrive at Attabad lake, enjoy boat rides there and then you may go further up, when you reach the Borith lake spot hire a jeep / diesel run car and ask the driver to take you close to Passu glacier (it involves a bit of hike and trek once you have reached Borith lake, my youngest is now 5 years and he managed it, but its worth it instead seeing the glacier at a distance from main road, you will get to view it up close) once you come back from glacier stop at Borith lake and enjoy a boat ride, again its cheaper compared to Attabad. I started my journey back to Aliabad and didn't go all the way to Khunjarab. If you ask me I would strongly suggest that you stay at upper Hunza if you visit that area.
> 
> On 17th, Started travelling towards Gupis (ghizer district), it's a 5 hours drive at minimum, road from Huza to Gilgit is in very good condition but once you start travelling at Gahcooch road, it's in poor condition all the way to wherever you wish to go from there, however it has much more to offer in terms of scenery compared to Hunza. Ghizer is not that modern like Hunza, but its peaceful, you will see lots of springs, lakes (where river bank gets widened it forms sort of a lake, but no boating), if you are into fishing carry a fishing rod with you. PTDC Gupis is the best place, at a very good location and very well maintained. From Gupis I went to Phunder valley (2 hours min drive) .... and from there you can continue to go to Shandoor Chitral (which I didn't). Overall Ghizer is better than Hunza (in my opinion).
> 
> On 19th I started early and reached Naran PTDC, making long stops at Babu Sar, Gaitidass. The road back from KKH to Babu Sar is steep, I would recommend that during this season travelling to any of these areas you stop for five to ten minutes after every one or two hours to let your car's engine, brake discs and pads to cool down a bit.
> 
> The negatives ......... you won't find milestones / direction boards in those areas specially Gilgit when you need them the most, and somehow I saw the worst misuse and abuse of Green Number plate Vehicles (it seemed like every other shehzada and babu was there with a police party don't know what to make of this naya Pakistan, the slogan was 2 nai 1 Pakistan .... but now I feel like stranger in my own country).
> 
> @Khafee @Shane @PakSword @Dubious in case anyone of you is interested in travelling to those parts I am always available to share information.
> 
> *TIME CHART
> Islamabad to Abbottabad* ..... take Kashmir Highway and all the way to Hazara motorway, for the time being Shah Maqsood interchange is the only exit on Hazara motorway and from there you connect with the old road. From Islamabad to Shah Maqsood it should take you 1:30 hrs max .... and after that the road is single with two way traffic and it limits your speed, if you are lucky you can reach Abbottabad in another 1:30 hrs ...... but if its your unlucky day it may take you 3 hrs or more to reach Abbottabad from Shah Maqsood.
> 
> However, they are planning to fully make the Hazara Motorway operation in August this year. So that may reduce your travel time significantly and increase the comfort in travelling to Abbottabad.
> 
> *From Abbottabad to Naran* ........ it depends on your driving skills and how much you are used to travelling in hilly mountainous roads. If you are a first timer with relevant experience it should take you 1:30 hrs max to reach Balakot, and from Balakot to Kiwai around 1 hr and from Kiwai to Malakandi another 1 hr and from Malakandi to Naran 2 hrs. You may add your stay time to it ....... but if you have left Islamabad at around 10 am you should be able to reach Naran by 7 pm ... including your stays.
> 
> *Naran to Babusar* ......... again your driving skills and experience count, the road has got some nasty patches and plus it depends which time of the year you have chosen to travel there ...... June July you will witness glaciers on the road side, Sept Oct you won't find those glaciers and traffic load also varies in different times. However, that journey is 4 hrs.
> 
> *Babusar to Chilas* ......... that side remains closed from November thru March April or max early July. Road is good but with lots of curves and steep. The speed limit remains 30km/hr so it may take you min. 2 hrs to reach the KKH and Babusar road junction
> 
> *Chilas to Raikot* .......... hot, dusty and road is in very bad condition with curves and huge mountains at one side and river running at other. If you drive recklessly you may reach Raikot in 1.30 hrs but if you drive carefully you will reach there in 2 hrs.
> 
> *Raikot to Juglot* .......... road is very good and it may take you 30 to 40 minutes to reach Jaglot.
> 
> *Juglot to Gilgit* .......... road remains good and max an hour or early
> 
> *Gilgit to Hunza* ........ road remains good and min 2 hrs to reach Hunza
> 
> *Hunza to Ghizer *....... you will first have to come back to Gilgit which will take the same min 2 hrs and from Gilgit you will take Ghahcooch road. Road is narrow and hmmmm okay with some very bad patches and lots of potholes. On your journey towards Ghizer region, you will have the river running in opposite direction and alongside the road. It should take you min 2:30 hrs to reach Gupis and 6 hrs to reach Phuder valley from Gilgit.
> 
> Your return journey from every spot may take little less time, as you would already be aware of the road.
> 
> *A tip for people who haven't driven vehicles in that area ......... please use proper gears, while you are descending keep your vehicle's acceleration in check with lower gears, don't try top gears at all ........ if its sunny try making a stop after every 1 or 2 hrs .... that would let your disc pads and drums cool down ..... which in turn helps with better grip while braking.*
> 
> *And before going to that area check oil(s) and battery life / water, clutch plate plus timing belt.*


Thanx. Nice and to the point. A helpful guide with key pointers for tourists going up there. Will definitely give you a hollar before visiting.

The green number plate thingy reflects the matching brain wavelengths of our semi literate babus across the board , high aspirations but same old mediocre actions, hanooz dilli dor ast.

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## I.R.A

Arsalan said:


> Excellent.
> So it seems you traveled up to Attabad then and explored Hunza and Ghizer in this tour. Didnt went all the way to Khunjerab Pass? Makes sense since you were with kids. How about Naltar? you managed to go there?



I went further up from Attabad, to see Borith lake and Passu glacier, at Borith lake spot ask for Gohar Ali (he is a driver who owns a diesel car, ask him to take you up close to Passu glacier, the glacier and borith lake are in the same direction, there is kacha road up till lake and then from there you have to walk to see the glacier, and Gohar Ali is a nice gentleman doesn't charge much I paid him extra).

When I left Hunza for Ghizer I did stop at Naltar diversion, but I was short on time, Gupis (in Ghizer) is minimum 3 hours from Gilgit and road is in bad condition, I could have traveled at night, but that didn't seem to be a wise thing with family, not that I was afraid of security or something but because if you have any problems with the car, you won't find anyone to fix it.



Arsalan said:


> Questions;
> PTDC hotel reservations. How to manage that?
> Recommended food



Gupis (ghizer) is cheap and you can get at spot booking, Phuder another 2 hours from Gupis also has a PTDC resort, you will be able to get on spot booking .... but only if you reach these places before sunset.

Don't stay in Aliabad Hunza (there is water shortage there and glacier water is dirty) and the PTDC there is bakwas, try going towards Attabad, Gojal and get a private guest house or hotel there.

Food is cheap (not PTDC), you can try local dishes in Hunza but only from cafes that are run by women / ladies, don't try local dishes from any other restaurant you will be disappointed. Chap shuru, cheese chapati, apricot juice, there are few other local dishes that you can try. If you wish you can try desi food, should be okay.

In Ghizer you will get trout fish (river wali) for Rs 1,000 / kg, 1kg is plenty by the way for 3 adults.

I would recommend spend more days in Ghizer than Hunza.



Arsalan said:


> As for my trip, we have faced another week delay now. With the rainy season coming i fear we may have to cancel the trip altogether!  Lets see.



If you manage to cross the Kaghan belt, you will be okay, because from chilas to any other part it was hot and dry. But sometimes region in between Chilas to Raikot get blocked because of the rock blasting and slides (and the condition of road in this region is the worst).

Take dry fruits with you it helps with nausea, tie a big bag behind one of the head rest of the car and use it as garbage bag, empty that bag when you find proper dustbins and repeat, take wipes with you, plenty of tissue paper, and just remember its nearly 2000 kms of return journey.

Edit: Arsalan I know you have been to that area, however if you are planning for Sakurdu from this side the road is under construction and it was closed. And you may try IBEX Resorts there one of them in Hunza seemed fine to me with tents and things.

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## Dubious

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Allama Iqbal Intl Airport management had the bright idea of making plastic wrap mandatory for Travelers and Tourists.
> 
> That will surely leave a lasting impression on travelers visiting the country.
> 
> 50Rs a piece
> So $0.50???
> 
> I wonder what "afsar" came up with this ingenious idea.


Check the thread. The order was taken back


----------



## Arsalan

I.R.A said:


> I went further up from Attabad, to see Borith lake and Passu glacier, at Borith lake spot ask for Gohar Ali (he is a driver who owns a diesel car, ask him to take you up close to Passu glacier, the glacier and borith lake are in the same direction, there is kacha road up till lake and then from there you have to walk to see the glacier, and Gohar Ali is a nice gentleman doesn't charge much I paid him extra).


Excellent. That makes a visit to Borith lake and the Passu Glacier a nice activity while in that area then.



> Gupis (ghizer) is cheap and you can get at spot booking, Phuder another 2 hours from Gupis also has a PTDC resort, you will be able to get on spot booking .... but only if you reach these places before sunset.
> 
> Don't stay in Aliabad Hunza (there is water shortage there and glacier water is dirty) and the PTDC there is bakwas, try going towards Attabad, Gojal and get a private guest house or hotel there.
> 
> Food is cheap (not PTDC), you can try local dishes in Hunza but only from cafes that are run by women / ladies, don't try local dishes from any other restaurant you will be disappointed. Chap shuru, cheese chapati, apricot juice, there are few other local dishes that you can try. If you wish you can try desi food, should be okay.
> 
> In Ghizer you will get trout fish (river wali) for Rs 1,000 / kg, 1kg is plenty by the way for 3 adults.
> 
> I would recommend spend more days in Ghizer than Hunza.


Excellent. Very valuable information. Thank you.


> If you manage to cross the Kaghan belt, you will be okay, because from chilas to any other part it was hot and dry. But sometimes region in between Chilas to Raikot get blocked because of the rock blasting and slides (and the condition of road in this region is the worst).


Yeah i know that. However we will be traveling as a group of friends and will most probably be taking one vehicle so everyone can stay together so i think we will manage it. Chilas to Raikot is hell really! No doubt about that.



> Take dry fruits with you it helps with nausea, tie a big bag behind one of the head rest of the car and use it as garbage bag, empty that bag when you find proper dustbins and repeat, take wipes with you, plenty of tissue paper, and just remember its nearly 2000 kms of return journey.






> Edit: Arsalan I know you have been to that area, however if you are planning for Sakurdu from this side the road is under construction and it was closed. And you may try IBEX Resorts there one of them in Hunza seemed fine to me with tents and things.


We now plan a one stop destination since some years. The idea behind this is that all of us friend are working and on job, the reason to go is to relax and we cannot relax while trying to squeeze more than one place in a shourt 4 to 5 days visit. Last time it was Fairy Meadows, this time, it will be Deosai!!

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## ebr77

-Do Pakistan issue visa to Bangladeshi for tourism ?
-can we cross via wagah - Attari border or does it have to be by air only
- I want to visit Karachi , Lahore , ISD , neelum valley and if permitted Kashmir , —-how much money should i bring , and how much time should I spend in each place ? 
Thanks in advance .


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## Arsalan

ebr77 said:


> -Do Pakistan issue visa to Bangladeshi for tourism ?


YES!



> -can we cross via wagah - Attari border or does it have to be by air only


Should not be a problem as long as you have a valid Pakistan VISA but since you are coming from Bangladesh then why come via Wagha and complicate things unnecessarily?  Better to come by air.



> - I want to visit Karachi , Lahore , ISD , neelum valley and if permitted Kashmir , —-how much money should i bring , and how much time should I spend in each place ?


Depends on what you are looking for. Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad are urban cities but with plenty to offer from historic land marks to old mughal era gardens to scenic beauty of Islamabad (not sure if you will be charmed by by the sea in Karachi but must visit a couple of sea side places for food). So if you are into that stuff and if you are a foodie, i would say 2-3 days in each city will give you a good taste of the place. The more time you have the better. If you have more time, may be plan 2 or 3 days for Karachi, 3 or 4 for Lahore and a couple for Islamabad. For Neelum Valley, 2-3 days visit from Islamabad will be great. Should take time to visit Swat/Kumrat/Naran etc or one of these if possible. Again, depends on how much time you got and what things you are looking for. As for budget, will you be traveling with family or alone or with a friend? 



> Thanks in advance .


Sorry about the delayed response.

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## ebr77

Arsalan said:


> YES!
> 
> 
> Should not be a problem as long as you have a valid Pakistan VISA but since you are coming from Bangladesh then why come via Wagha and complicate things unnecessarily?  Better to come by air.
> 
> 
> Depends on what you are looking for. Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad are urban cities but with plenty to offer from historic land marks to old mughal era gardens to scenic beauty of Islamabad (not sure if you will be charmed by by the sea in Karachi but must visit a couple of sea side places for food). So if you are into that stuff and if you are a foodie, i would say 2-3 days in each city will give you a good taste of the place. The more time you have the better. If you have more time, may be plan 2 or 3 days for Karachi, 3 or 4 for Lahore and a couple for Islamabad. For Neelum Valley, 2-3 days visit from Islamabad will be great. Should take time to visit Swat/Kumrat/Naran etc or one of these if possible. Again, depends on how much time you got and what things you are looking for. As for budget, will you be traveling with family or alone or with a friend?
> 
> 
> Sorry about the delayed response.



I will be travelling alone mostly . I am not sure how post COVID-19 situation will play out for travellers worldwide . I think I will want to spend about 15 days in Pakistan . I want to see the country , people , places the way it is .


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## Arsalan

ebr77 said:


> I will be travelling alone mostly . I am not sure how post COVID-19 situation will play out for travellers worldwide . I think I will want to spend about 15 days in Pakistan . I want to see the country , people , places the way it is .


So? Did you went ahead with your travel plans or is it pending?


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## Arsalan

can anyone share contact information of some good tour operators for a trip to Skardu? Preferably from Lahore but Islamabad/Rawalpindi will do!!

Need this over the next 3 4 days if anyone can help!


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Arsalan said:


> can anyone share contact information of some good tour operators for a trip to Skardu? Preferably from Lahore but Islamabad/Rawalpindi will do!!
> 
> Need this over the next 3 4 days if anyone can help!



@krash could help.. i went there but i did the tour on my own. Deosai, waterfall, shigar, khaplu, buddha rockp0⁰py

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## Arsalan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @krash could help.. i went there but i did the tour on my own. Deosai, waterfall, shigar, khaplu, buddha rockp0⁰py


We were planning the trip on our own as well but this COVID-19 may be a bit of a problem since everything is no operational fully. If i can get hold of a tour operator, it will be easier to get these details from him and see if he can arrange for clearance to visit. 

Have dropped a message to @krash already but he seem to be out! Waiting for his response. 


About your trip and the places you mentioned, how many days you visited for? How long was your trip i mean.

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## ebr77

Arsalan said:


> So? Did you went ahead with your travel plans or is it pending?


Pending due to corona .


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## Arsalan

Anyone planning to visit Skardu, dont!!


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## The Accountant

Arsalan said:


> Anyone planning to visit Skardu, dont!!
> 
> View attachment 658991










the trend of increase in number of cases is probably the reason. This is the only region of Pakistan where cases are increasing.


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## Arsalan

The Accountant said:


> View attachment 659338
> View attachment 659338
> 
> the trend of increase in number of cases is probably the reason. This is the only region of Pakistan where cases are increasing.


Yup!
People are visiting Swat, Kumrat side, there is checking there but still it is easier to go there. Skardu/Gilgit seem to be under strict lock down now and surly it is because of the increase in COVID cases.

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## Arsalan

Good news.










*However Skardu still seem to be an exception and there is lock down planned there so better not to plan any trip to that part until it is all clear.*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@krash need help planning an emergency tour to naran and nearby places.
Been there, but didnt visit any place except saiful muluk.
Its a 3-4 day tour and i have to leave tomorrow.


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## The Accountant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @krash need help planning an emergency tour to naran and nearby places.
> Been there, but didnt visit any place except saiful muluk.
> Its a 3-4 day tour and i have to leave tomorrow.


U can visit shogran saif ul mulook babusar top and if u have stamina u can visit ansu lake and satpara lake. These lake requires some tracking

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## krash

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @krash need help planning an emergency tour to naran and nearby places.
> Been there, but didnt visit any place except saiful muluk.
> Its a 3-4 day tour and i have to leave tomorrow.



Here, brother. So since I don't know the specifics, I'll be making some assumptions and decisions on your behalf. If you have any corrections or questions please let me know.

Firstly, I'm going to guess you're going with the family.

I will recommend making Naran as your base. My reasoning is that it will allow you better and quicker access to the rest of the valley.

*Naran*

Pros over other towns:
- Better/quicker access to the rest of the valley
- Better/More hotels
- Better/More restaurant options
- Better/More facilities
- More things to do within and around the town itself

Cons over other towns:
- Crowds from hell. I can't overstate this fact.
- The town is ugly and uninviting
- More inflated pricing

If you absolutely do not want to deal with the crowds, we can talk about Kaghan or Shogran.

*PTDC
*
For your hotel my first choice would be PTDC, then DeManchi, and then Millennium. The latter two are 'flashier', newer, and, maybe, with better facilities. I picked PTDC because,

- Right at the edge of the town, which keeps it away from the worst crowds.
- Don't need to drive through the very crowded traffic through the town every day for locations further north.
- Located right at the banks of Kunhar.
- Big private lawns where the family can spend quality time; fishing, picnics, afternoon tea, late night BBQ, etc.
- Private huts make the stay a very different experience than generic hotel rooms.

*

Places to Visit (in no particular order)
*
You've already seen most of the regular touristy spots while on your way through the valley to Babusar last time. Some off the main raod suggestions below.

*
- Beyond Saif-ul-Malook:*

If you haven't gone beyond Saif-ul-Malook then do so. It's a beautiful little trail up till Malika Parbat's Base Camp and then to Ansoo Lake. The lake itself has been disgraced by those crowds, however, most of them never go beyond its southern banks and so those areas remain relatively pristine. The number of people that go on this trail has increased since the last time I was there 10 years ago, so might not be exactly as I remember. You can hire Mules/'horses' till the base camp for the kids and those who get tired. Beyond it it gets a little steeper (Nothing serious at all though. Almost anyone can do it). This would be a complete day's activity. Just the trail till the base camp will be a very decent day spent. You don't need to go up till Ansoo Lake if you don't feel like making the effort with the family or are short on time.


*- Shogran*

Shogran itself has met the same fate as Saif-ul-Malook because of the crowds. It still gives you some beautiful panoramic views of the Kaghan and the AJK valleys below which are worth seeing at least once. You'll get off the main road (Mansehra-Naran highway) right at Kiwai and then drive up the Shogran road. The drive isn't bad either.


*- Siri Paye*

Siri Paye is a high altitude meadow, of sorts. Beautiful place. It's a short trail further from Shogran. Pretty sure you can hire a jeep from Shogran to take you there as well.


*- Sharan Forest*

It's a small forest on the opposite side of the Kunhar from the Shogran hill. There's a resort near it too. Pretty place. You'll get off the main road (Mansehra-Naran highway) at Paras and then take the Sharan road across the river. Might want to ask the road condition from a local at Paras. If bad, hire a jeep. You can also rent cabins there if you decide to spend the night.


*- Dharamsar and Sambaksar Lakes*

This is worth it. I'm sure when you were driving up the Babusar pass last time you saw gorgeous lush green plains with snaking streams below to your right. The lakes are located there. The way to them is a jeep track which leads off from the main highway just before you reach Babusar Pass. The jeep takes you most of the way and then you have a short trek to Dharamsar Lake. You can hire a jeep from the Babusar Pass to take you there. The lakes are ok but the jeep ride and the places surrounding the lakes are spectacular. So even if you don't want to trek, do take the jeep ride down there. There aren't really any tourists there either which is a major positive.


*- Lalazar*

You drive till Batakundi and then hire a jeep from there till Lalazar. This is another high altitude meadow. Ask a local or the jeep driver and he'll take you to a quiet spot. Gives you pretty views of the surrounding peaks and the valley below. I'd leave this one for last as a back up.


*- Dudipatsar Lake*

This one's a toughy to recommend for a family. I'll still give you the details shortly.


ps: You might want to call one of the hotels in Naran and confirm that there are no travel restrictions in place for there.

pps: Wanted to get this to you asap. Will be adding more to this soon. At work, so a little challenging.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

The Accountant said:


> U can visit shogran saif ul mulook babusar top and if u have stamina u can visit ansu lake and satpara lake. These lake requires some tracking


Have a 3 year old with me.

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## krash

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Have a 3 year old with me.



Yeah Dudipat and Ansoo are both out of the question. Think the little one's not old enough for a horse ride to the Malika Parbat base camp either.

Btw, the places you've already seen but might want to visit again would be Lulusar Lake and Babusar.

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## The Accountant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Have a 3 year old with me.


Then shogran saif ul mulook and babusar and lulusur are enough. Its a three day trip. U should always try to leave hotel early in the morning like 7 or 8 as it is the best time to enjoy the beauty before it get crowded

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## I.R.A

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Have a 3 year old with me.



Gaitidas (spend as much time at this place let the little one run around there). Piyala jheel (most ignored with very less crowd and very easy access 10 to 20 minutes for the whole enjoying its view), lulusar jheel (crowded with no decent place to sit, roadside say cherries lay laina bus). Don't go to Babusar you will waste your time it's always crowded with 60% lafantar awam, parking is an issue too.

Lalazar (crowded lafantar awam in abundance), get a local jeep wala from Naran pay him a little extra to stay there for little longer, when you reach there straight away go to the highest possible spot to avoid the crowd.

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## Arsalan

Alright guys, so we did managed our trip after all. Had to change destination though! Originally we planned to visit Deosai and Sakardu but then due to lockdown issues we decided to skip that. Eventually, deciding upon a visit to Kumrat. Will share detailed account latter, till then, enjoy this:



*Kumrat Valley*





*Jahaz Banda





Katura Lake*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Arsalan said:


> Alright guys, so we did managed our trip after all. Had to change destination though! Originally we planned to visit Deosai and Sakardu but then due to lockdown issues we decided to skip that. Eventually, deciding upon a visit to Kumrat. Will share detailed account latter, till then, enjoy this:
> View attachment 662557
> *Kumrat Valley*
> 
> View attachment 662558
> 
> *Jahaz Banda
> 
> View attachment 662560
> 
> Katura Lake*


Was it crowded?


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## Arsalan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Was it crowded?


We were lucky, or smart if i may say. We went one day ahead of the crowd by leaving on night of August 12. Mostly people started traveling on August 13 as it was a long weekend (Aug 14 plus Saturday and Sunday) but by starting a day early we managed to stay ahead of the crowd. It was immensely crowded with people going up toward Jahaz Banda when we were coming down from there. However i think it was that weekend, it was after lock down ended and it was a long weekend with 14th August included. It will be normal now!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

krash said:


> Yeah Dudipat and Ansoo are both out of the question. Think the little one's not old enough for a horse ride to the Malika Parbat base camp either.
> 
> Btw, the places you've already seen but might want to visit again would be Lulusar Lake and Babusar.


What is the route for dudipatsar and ansu? Also can one camp there? Jeep fare etc?


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## krash

@DESERT FIGHTER for the huts,







If those three numbers don't work try +92 346 9700797. If that doesn't work either, call the "resort" near the Sharan Forest at +923000222915 or +923026151018 and ask for the phone number to the huts. Also, were you trying to book at https://tckpbooking.com/pods/?

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## krash

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> What is the route for dudipatsar and ansu? Also can one camp there? Jeep fare etc?



For Ansoo lake you take the jeep till Saif-ul-Malook, then trek (or horse ride) till Malika Parbat base camp, and then beyond that it's only by foot. You can camp anywhere between Saif-ul-Malook till the base camp if you carry your own camping equipment (can rent from Naran, along with porters). You won't find any facilities after crossing Saif-ul-Malook. No commercial camping services either. Just a couple of small villages on the mountain sides. Beyond the base camp it gets steeper and colder so wouldn't advise camping there with the family. IIRC, the lake is around 4200m. From lake to lake it can take 5-7 hrs depending on the person.

For Dudipat, you drive north from Naran and get off at Besal, which is just before Lulusar Lake. From there it's a 6-8 hr trek depending on the person. Pretty sure you can hire horses for at least part of the trip here as well. No facilities whatsoever beyond Besal, though. You can again take your own or rented camping equipment and camp at Dudipat or Mullah ki Basti (short distance before Dudipat), but there are no commercial camping facilities available. This one is around 3800m.

Both these lakes are high enough that it gets a bit cold at night. In fact, the season for both these treks ended on the 15th of August, so it will have already started to get even colder now. Both these areas also have a little safety issue. Because of these reasons and the lengths of the treks I would not recommend them with the little one. Wouldn't recommend camping with the family at all.

PS: We are right at the start of the off season so jeep fares should have started to lower. Will need to negotiate though.

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## Arsalan

krash said:


> For Ansoo lake you take the jeep till Saif-ul-Malook, then trek (or horse ride) till Malika Parbat base camp, and then beyond that it's only by foot. You can camp anywhere between Saif-ul-Malook till the base camp if you carry your own camping equipment (can rent from Naran, along with porters). You won't find any facilities after crossing Saif-ul-Malook. No commercial camping services either. Just a couple of small villages on the mountain sides. Beyond the base camp it gets steeper and colder so wouldn't advise camping there with the family. IIRC, the lake is around 4200m. From lake to lake it can take 5-7 hrs depending on the person.
> 
> For Dudipat, you drive north from Naran and get off at Besal, which is just before Lulusar Lake. From there it's a 6-8 hr trek depending on the person. Pretty sure you can hire horses for at least part of the trip here as well. No facilities whatsoever beyond Besal, though. You can again take your own or rented camping equipment and camp at Dudipat or Mullah ki Basti (short distance before Dudipat), but there are no commercial camping facilities available. This one is around 3800m.
> 
> Both these lakes are high enough that it gets a bit cold at night. In fact, the season for both these treks ended on the 15th of August, so it will have already started to get even colder now. Both these areas also have a little safety issue. Because of these reasons and the lengths of the treks I would not recommend them with the little one. Wouldn't recommend camping with the family at all.
> 
> PS: We are right at the start of the off season so jeep fares should have started to lower. Will need to negotiate though.


Dudipatsar trekking is relatively simple and easier compared to Ansoo which have two/three step hikes on a rocky surface. Not very technical or difficult but relatively difficult compared to Dudipatsar,, what do you think? HOWEVER, While Ansoo can be done in one day from Saif-ul-Malooq, Dudipatsar is better done with over night stay.

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## krash

Arsalan said:


> Dudipatsar trekking is relatively simple and easier compared to Ansoo which have two/three step hikes on a rocky surface. Not very technical or difficult but relatively difficult compared to Dudipatsar,, what do you think? HOWEVER, While Ansoo can be done in one day from Saif-ul-Malooq, Dudipatsar is better done with over night stay.



Yes, agreed. Apart from the terrain, the sudden and higher altitude gain during the last stretch leaves a fair few gasping for breath on their way to Ansoo. For Dudipat, you start at around 3,200m at Besal and take your sweet time of around 6-8 hrs on a pretty constant average gradient to gain only 550-600m till the lake. For Ansoo, you start at around the same 3,200m at Saif-ul-Malook, take your sweet time on a very tame gradient till the base camp, but then climb most of the total 1000m altitude gain on a steeper gradient.

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## Arsalan

krash said:


> Yes, agreed. Apart from the terrain, the sudden and higher altitude gain during the last stretch leaves a fair few gasping for breath on their way to Ansoo. For Dudipat, you start at around 3,200m at Besal and take your sweet time of around 6-8 hrs on a pretty constant average gradient to gain only 550-600m till the lake. For Ansoo, you start at around the same 3,200m at Saif-ul-Malook, take your sweet time on a very tame gradient till the base camp, but then climb most of the total 1000m altitude gain on a steeper gradient.


Exactly!!

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## Arsalan

Arsalan said:


> Alright guys, so we did managed our trip after all. Had to change destination though! Originally we planned to visit Deosai and Sakardu but then due to lockdown issues we decided to skip that. Eventually, deciding upon a visit to Kumrat. Will share detailed account latter



*In case you dont want to read the whole article/story here is a quick summary for you to help plan your visit:*

*Travel Time and Road Condition*
Lahore to Islamabad 3:15 hours, motorway
Islamabad to Chakdara 2:15 hours, motorway
Chakdara to Timirgara, 1:15 hours, good road
Timirgara to baab-e-kumrat, 2:00 hours, ok road
baab-e-kumrat to sheringal, 1:30 hours, ok road
Sheringal to Thal, 3:00 hours poor road

Total Travel Time from lahore to Thal with some tea breaks - 15 hours. Hectic as last leg is quite bumpy and tiresome!

Thal to Jahaz Banda
2:00 hours jeep ride to taki top
3:00 hours trekking to Jahaz Banda

Return from Jahaz Banda to Thal is about 3: hours

Thal to Kumrat:
1:30 hours drive to Kumrat (Waterfall)

Jahaz Banda to Katura Lake:
3:00 hours trekking to Katura,
3:00 hours back to Jahaz Banda

*Expense:*
Hiace per day rent is 8000Rs
Fuel cost plus toll tax from Lahore to Thal and Back was approximately 30,000Rs
Jeep to Jahaz banda from thal 5000Rs
Jeep to Thal from Jahaz Banda 3500 Rs
Camping at Jahaz banda 2500 to 3000 rent of 4 person camp
Jeep/car to Kumrat from Thal 5000 Rs
Camping in Kumrat 2500 to 3000 rent of 4 person camp

*What to pack:*

Sleeping bag if you are camping on your own, not required if you want to rent a tent/hut as they have sleeping bags and blankets
Torch (must)
Water bottle for trek
Mosquito repellent
Sun block (must)
Essential medicines (must)
As far as dressing goes, we traveled in August. T-Shirt and Shorts for day times especially trekking. Light jacked for night/evening.

================================================================================================================

Alright, here is a detailed account of recent trip as promised. Firstly, note that the original plan this year was to visit Deosai and Sakardu but there were number of issues that stopped us from going ahead with that plan and have to review our destination at last moment, deciding upon Kumrat. I am glad we did it, that is one spot off the list now! However, let me be clear, once you have been to GB, those dry terrifying mountains, there is not much that will make your jaws drop. Keeping that in mind, i found Kumrat to be "the next best thing".

*Trip Plan:*
Considering the work schedule and family commitments of the whole group of friends we planned a short 4/5 day trip. Wednesday Departure, Sunday Return. Our past experience have taught us that it is best to go for a single destination if the time you have at that spot is two days or less. Add a second near by spot only if you have the third day otherwise it is all a bit of a hassle. However, sometimes it is still too tempting to forget that lesson and that is what we did!

Post corona induced lock-down it was not easy to get the whole gang together so we went ahead with 6 people only. However rather than going for a smaller car/vehicle we sticked to our old choice High-Roof/Hiace! It is comfortable, all group get to travel together and on a short trip with long travel time it gives you the option to sleep comfortably on the road! A bit expensive but the main thing is all friends are in one vehicle, travel is half the fun on such trips.

*Route details and condition:*
We started our journey from Lahore on the evening of Wednesday. Departing at around 7:00 pm, the time line and route details for your reference is as follow:

*Lahore to Chakdara (5:30 Hours)* is motorway drive, takes about five and a half hour. We made a short stop and Chakri for tea and reached Chakdara at around 12:30 AM at night. On the Swat Express Way, right before Chakdara there are two road tunnels that are supposed to take you through the mountains between malakand and Swat. One of the tunnels is complete while the second one is still under construction so it needs a detour of about 15-20 minutes. Other than that it is all motorway.

Another stop at Chakdara cost is about 30-45 minutes.

*Chakdara to Timergara (1:15 hours)* road is in good condition. Try traveling through Timergara at early morning hours or in day time. This is a small town but one of the largest timber markets of Pakistan so the traffic gets bit of a problem specially at evening and early night hours as there are hundreds of trucks there loading timber to be transported all across the country. We crossed the town at around 2:30/3:00 AM so it was all clear.

Timirgara you need to continue on Dir Road for about 2 hours until you get to *Baab-e-Kumrat (2:00 Hours). *Again, road condition till here is pretty OK. We were traveling at night and there was no traffic at all. The road and area is not very dangerous either so it is safe to travel during night time. Specially if you are on a rented vehicle with a draive it is best as one can take rest on the way. We reached baab-e-Kumrat or the door to Kumrat valley at around 5:00 in the morning. The weather up to this point is pretty same Islamabad/Margalla Hills. Not cold that is! From Baab-e-Kumrat there are two roads, one going left to Dir and then Chitral (Dir is just about 25 minutes from this point) the other going left to Thal via Sheringal.

*Baab-e-Kurat to Sheringal (1:15-1:30 Hour) *road start to get a bit tricky but is still in ok condition. Takes about an hour to get to Shaheed Benazir Bhutto University, Sheringal in the Upper Dir district. The University is on road side and can be a good spot for breakfast OR even a stay (bachelors) in their hostel is possible if you talk your way to it. We however skipped it but keep that in mind as an option. With not many decent accommodations available on this route this is a good possible spot.

*Important to note that while we were travelling during night time and may have missed some things, there do not seem to be many restaurants or accommodations in this whole route. The most likely stop is to be at Thal (if required) and that too is not ideal as again, not many good or even decent options available. So this leg of journey have to be planned in one go without any night stop overs. All you can hope for is a decent meal or tea. *

We stopped for breakfast after Sheringal at a road side dhaba and it was BAD! I am not a big critic of food on such tours but this one was really bad. Luckily, there are plenty of apple and pear trees to be found on the road side and by the river side so just ask the first person you come across and he will say "jao jao,, jitna marzi ha khao bahi sahib" and you can end up having a pretty good and refreshing breakfast of farm fresh fruits picked from the tress by yourself. That is what we did and i think it was the best breakfast we had on the entire trip. Much required too after whole night of traveling and what was about to come. We left from here at around 7:30AM

From Sheringal the road is a mess right up to the first planned stop/destination on way to Kumrat, that is the town of THAL! Its bumpy and at spots, non-existent! That 30-35 Km journey take about 3 hours and that is if there are no traffic jams which i have been told are quite frequent. We were traveling at an ideal time both in terms of the day we were traveling and the time of that day so were lucky to get to* Thal at around 10:30 AM! *

Thal is a relatively big town and almost everything you will need for your trip will be available here. We were carrying the important things with us already but bought some biscuits, chips, tea bags, milk cartons, etc etc from here. From Thal you have two choice. If you are exhausted after the long journey, just rent a jeep from Thal and go to Kumrat. takes about 1:30 Hrs and you can camp or book an accommodation in countless huts and camps there. If you think you still have some energy in you you can choose the alternative which is to hire a jeep and start traveling to Jahaz banda. That is what we opted for.

*JAHAZ BANDA*
Jahaz Banda is a large meadow in Kumrat Valley, some 3000 m above sea level. Takes about 2 hours on jeep track to a point called Taki Top. That is as far as the jeep can take you. From here onwards it is about 2:30 to 03:00 hour trekking to Jahaz Banda depending on how fit and use to one if to trekking at some height. Can take you from 2 to 4 hours!





_Jeep track to Taki Top on way to Jahaz Banda_

The jeep track is pretty normal, not too risky or dangerous looking. If you have been to even Siri Paye and/or Saif-ul-Malooq you will find this one pretty simple. If you have been to fairy meadows you wont even notice that this is a JEEP TRACK.

From Taki Top one can either hire a mule or do some trekking. To further explain the trekking, first 25-30 minutes if trek is a steep climb, that is where many people give up and decide to hire a mule! Avoid that! Push trough these first 25-30 minutes whatever way you can and once on top it is a relatively straight forward WALK for about an hour, an hour and a half! Last stretch is again a hike, 20-25 minutes, less stepper than the first part but still a bit more than the middle part you have walked though. If you have done it previously, you will be able to do this in two, two and a half hours total. Not very difficult, it is just that first climb that is a bit demotivating to some. Go through with that one.

*At the end of this you will have reached Jahaz Banda Meadows. A beautiful place indeed. We reached the place around 2:00 PM*









_Evening in Jahaz Banda_

There are plenty or tent camps and huts available. Plus a lot of new huts and hotels were being built too.

Unless you are traveling on a national holiday you will be ok. Still you may google and decide to book in advance. On spot, you can get a tent for 4 people for 2000 to 3000 Rs per night on normal days. However the same tent was also being given on rent for 15000 Rs on the weekend as it was a long weekend with August 14th holiday and a lot of visitors were there!! So if you are traveling on such occasion better book in advance. We had our own camps with us so it was not a problem. You can camp anywhere you want, we chose a good spot that was away from the rush, had good view and was close to a camping site of a local guy.

Preferable camp close to an existing site and give the owner of that site 500-1000 Rs for camping there for the entire trip, they will provide some security to the camp when you are away exploring the area.




_View from our camp_

Toilets are available all around the meadow but there are like 8-10 of them. If you are there on regular days then that is fine but on rush days it becomes bit of a problem. however with new huts and hotels being constructed i hope this wont be a problem by next year! A couple of canteens also available where you can get tea or snacks. Three dhaba style restaurants are also available where you can get a normal meal OR you can choose to buy chicken and cook yourself.

*Proximity*
There is a Jahaz Banda Waterfall night below the meadow. It take 20-25 minutes to get there as you need to go down hill. Nice place with good access to a water stream that is a bit calm!

There is another big waterfall some 5-6 Km away from the meadow but there is no trek to that place. Takes 4 to 5 hours as per locals, multiple it by two if you are not a resident. 
*





KATURA LAKE*
Next morning (FRIDAY) a group of our team decided to go to Katura Lake. An alpine glacial lake at height of about 3500 m. It takes about 3 hours to reach there from Jahaz Banda meadows. On way there is a smaller lake as well, called Jahaz Banda Lake. The trek is a little bit difficult than the one to Jahaz Banda. There are two three climbs and then you go down each time as well so it means you will have to climb them again on way back. Plus there is no proper trek, you are walking through stones and boulders. Getting your ankel twisted is a painful possibility. Another important point is that there is not shade on this trek, no forest or trees so use, apply and carry good sun block with you. The sun there will burn your skin in minutes!

The last bit of trek to Katura is most fun, it is a small 50-60 feet climb up the rocks but the view from top make all this effort worth it!

_




Katura Lake_
It takes about 3 hours each way to and from the lake. Once back in Jahaz Banda it again depends on your preference and stamina. If pressed for time and with some gas in tank i will suggest you start your journey back to Thal to go to Kumrat valley! Otherwise you can choose to spend this second night in Jahaz Banda and leave early morning the next day.

Getting back to Thal from jahaz Banda should take you about 2:30 Hours! (remember that going up it took about 5 hours).

*KUMRAT VALLEY*
While Jahaz Banda is also a meadow in upper reached of the valley, it is the valley and river bank itself that have attracted most attention so far! Once it Thank it takes about 1:30 Hours car journey to reach the main valley. The whole area is being developed for tourism so there are hundreds of tents, camps, huts and some hotels too!!

I will recommend camping or renting a camp/hut around a spot called Kumrat Waterfall.





From there it takes about an hour walk to Kala Chashma, 10-15 minutes to the waterfall. 5 minutes to Panjkora river!!





This is the spot where you need to come if you are looking for peace and relaxing. Hiking, trekking, climbing rocks, exploring glacial lakes is on thing and the peace and serenity of this place is another. Once in Kumrat, do enjoy both.

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## Arsalan

Arsalan said:


> *In case you dont want to read the whole article/story here is a quick summary for you to help plan your visit:*
> 
> *Travel Time and Road Condition*
> Lahore to Islamabad 3:15 hours, motorway
> Islamabad to Chakdara 2:15 hours, motorway
> Chakdara to Timirgara, 1:15 hours, good road
> Timirgara to baab-e-kumrat, 2:00 hours, ok road
> baab-e-kumrat to sheringal, 1:30 hours, ok road
> Sheringal to Thal, 3:00 hours poor road
> 
> Total Travel Time from lahore to Thal with some tea breaks - 15 hours. Hectic as last leg is quite bumpy and tiresome!
> 
> Thal to Jahaz Banda
> 2:00 hours jeep ride to taki top
> 3:00 hours trekking to Jahaz Banda
> 
> Return from Jahaz Banda to Thal is about 3: hours
> 
> Thal to Kumrat:
> 1:30 hours drive to Kumrat (Waterfall)
> 
> Jahaz Banda to Katura Lake:
> 3:00 hours trekking to Katura,
> 3:00 hours back to Jahaz Banda
> 
> *Expense:*
> Hiace per day rent is 8000Rs
> Fuel cost plus toll tax from Lahore to Thal and Back was approximately 30,000Rs
> Jeep to Jahaz banda from thal 5000Rs
> Jeep to Thal from Jahaz Banda 3500 Rs
> Camping at Jahaz banda 2500 to 3000 rent of 4 person camp
> Jeep/car to Kumrat from Thal 5000 Rs
> Camping in Kumrat 2500 to 3000 rent of 4 person camp
> 
> *What to pack:*
> 
> Sleeping bag if you are camping on your own, not required if you want to rent a tent/hut as they have sleeping bags and blankets
> Torch (must)
> Water bottle for trek
> Mosquito repellent
> Sun block (must)
> Essential medicines (must)
> As far as dressing goes, we traveled in August. T-Shirt and Shorts for day times especially trekking. Light jacked for night/evening.
> 
> ================================================================================================================
> 
> Alright, here is a detailed account of recent trip as promised. Firstly, note that the original plan this year was to visit Deosai and Sakardu but there were number of issues that stopped us from going ahead with that plan and have to review our destination at last moment, deciding upon Kumrat. I am glad we did it, that is one spot off the list now! However, let me be clear, once you have been to GB, those dry terrifying mountains, there is not much that will make your jaws drop. Keeping that in mind, i found Kumrat to be "the next best thing".
> 
> *Trip Plan:*
> Considering the work schedule and family commitments of the whole group of friends we planned a short 4/5 day trip. Wednesday Departure, Sunday Return. Our past experience have taught us that it is best to go for a single destination if the time you have at that spot is two days or less. Add a second near by spot only if you have the third day otherwise it is all a bit of a hassle. However, sometimes it is still too tempting to forget that lesson and that is what we did!
> 
> Post corona induced lock-down it was not easy to get the whole gang together so we went ahead with 6 people only. However rather than going for a smaller car/vehicle we sticked to our old choice High-Roof/Hiace! It is comfortable, all group get to travel together and on a short trip with long travel time it gives you the option to sleep comfortably on the road! A bit expensive but the main thing is all friends are in one vehicle, travel is half the fun on such trips.
> 
> *Route details and condition:*
> We started our journey from Lahore on the evening of Wednesday. Departing at around 7:00 pm, the time line and route details for your reference is as follow:
> 
> *Lahore to Chakdara (5:30 Hours)* is motorway drive, takes about five and a half hour. We made a short stop and Chakri for tea and reached Chakdara at around 12:30 AM at night. On the Swat Express Way, right before Chakdara there are two road tunnels that are supposed to take you through the mountains between malakand and Swat. One of the tunnels is complete while the second one is still under construction so it needs a detour of about 15-20 minutes. Other than that it is all motorway.
> 
> Another stop at Chakdara cost is about 30-45 minutes.
> 
> *Chakdara to Timergara (1:15 hours)* road is in good condition. Try traveling through Timergara at early morning hours or in day time. This is a small town but one of the largest timber markets of Pakistan so the traffic gets bit of a problem specially at evening and early night hours as there are hundreds of trucks there loading timber to be transported all across the country. We crossed the town at around 2:30/3:00 AM so it was all clear.
> 
> Timirgara you need to continue on Dir Road for about 2 hours until you get to *Baab-e-Kumrat (2:00 Hours). *Again, road condition till here is pretty OK. We were traveling at night and there was no traffic at all. The road and area is not very dangerous either so it is safe to travel during night time. Specially if you are on a rented vehicle with a draive it is best as one can take rest on the way. We reached baab-e-Kumrat or the door to Kumrat valley at around 5:00 in the morning. The weather up to this point is pretty same Islamabad/Margalla Hills. Not cold that is! From Baab-e-Kumrat there are two roads, one going left to Dir and then Chitral (Dir is just about 25 minutes from this point) the other going left to Thal via Sheringal.
> 
> *Baab-e-Kurat to Sheringal (1:15-1:30 Hour) *road start to get a bit tricky but is still in ok condition. Takes about an hour to get to Shaheed Benazir Bhutto University, Sheringal in the Upper Dir district. The University is on road side and can be a good spot for breakfast OR even a stay (bachelors) in their hostel is possible if you talk your way to it. We however skipped it but keep that in mind as an option. With not many decent accommodations available on this route this is a good possible spot.
> 
> *Important to note that while we were travelling during night time and may have missed some things, there do not seem to be many restaurants or accommodations in this whole route. The most likely stop is to be at Thal (if required) and that too is not ideal as again, not many good or even decent options available. So this leg of journey have to be planned in one go without any night stop overs. All you can hope for is a decent meal or tea. *
> 
> We stopped for breakfast after Sheringal at a road side dhaba and it was BAD! I am not a big critic of food on such tours but this one was really bad. Luckily, there are plenty of apple and pear trees to be found on the road side and by the river side so just ask the first person you come across and he will say "jao jao,, jitna marzi ha khao bahi sahib" and you can end up having a pretty good and refreshing breakfast of farm fresh fruits picked from the tress by yourself. That is what we did and i think it was the best breakfast we had on the entire trip. Much required too after whole night of traveling and what was about to come. We left from here at around 7:30AM
> 
> From Sheringal the road is a mess right up to the first planned stop/destination on way to Kumrat, that is the town of THAL! Its bumpy and at spots, non-existent! That 30-35 Km journey take about 3 hours and that is if there are no traffic jams which i have been told are quite frequent. We were traveling at an ideal time both in terms of the day we were traveling and the time of that day so were lucky to get to* Thal at around 10:30 AM! *
> 
> Thal is a relatively big town and almost everything you will need for your trip will be available here. We were carrying the important things with us already but bought some biscuits, chips, tea bags, milk cartons, etc etc from here. From Thal you have two choice. If you are exhausted after the long journey, just rent a jeep from Thal and go to Kumrat. takes about 1:30 Hrs and you can camp or book an accommodation in countless huts and camps there. If you think you still have some energy in you you can choose the alternative which is to hire a jeep and start traveling to Jahaz banda. That is what we opted for.
> 
> *JAHAZ BANDA*
> Jahaz Banda is a large meadow in Kumrat Valley, some 3000 m above sea level. Takes about 2 hours on jeep track to a point called Taki Top. That is as far as the jeep can take you. From here onwards it is about 2:30 to 03:00 hour trekking to Jahaz Banda depending on how fit and use to one if to trekking at some height. Can take you from 2 to 4 hours!
> 
> View attachment 665992
> 
> _Jeep track to Taki Top on way to Jahaz Banda_
> 
> The jeep track is pretty normal, not too risky or dangerous looking. If you have been to even Siri Paye and/or Saif-ul-Malooq you will find this one pretty simple. If you have been to fairy meadows you wont even notice that this is a JEEP TRACK.
> 
> From Taki Top one can either hire a mule or do some trekking. To further explain the trekking, first 25-30 minutes if trek is a steep climb, that is where many people give up and decide to hire a mule! Avoid that! Push trough these first 25-30 minutes whatever way you can and once on top it is a relatively straight forward WALK for about an hour, an hour and a half! Last stretch is again a hike, 20-25 minutes, less stepper than the first part but still a bit more than the middle part you have walked though. If you have done it previously, you will be able to do this in two, two and a half hours total. Not very difficult, it is just that first climb that is a bit demotivating to some. Go through with that one.
> 
> *At the end of this you will have reached Jahaz Banda Meadows. A beautiful place indeed. We reached the place around 2:00 PM*
> View attachment 666007
> 
> 
> View attachment 666008
> 
> _Evening in Jahaz Banda_
> 
> There are plenty or tent camps and huts available. Plus a lot of new huts and hotels were being built too.
> 
> Unless you are traveling on a national holiday you will be ok. Still you may google and decide to book in advance. On spot, you can get a tent for 4 people for 2000 to 3000 Rs per night on normal days. However the same tent was also being given on rent for 15000 Rs on the weekend as it was a long weekend with August 14th holiday and a lot of visitors were there!! So if you are traveling on such occasion better book in advance. We had our own camps with us so it was not a problem. You can camp anywhere you want, we chose a good spot that was away from the rush, had good view and was close to a camping site of a local guy.
> 
> Preferable camp close to an existing site and give the owner of that site 500-1000 Rs for camping there for the entire trip, they will provide some security to the camp when you are away exploring the area.
> View attachment 666009
> 
> _View from our camp_
> 
> Toilets are available all around the meadow but there are like 8-10 of them. If you are there on regular days then that is fine but on rush days it becomes bit of a problem. however with new huts and hotels being constructed i hope this wont be a problem by next year! A couple of canteens also available where you can get tea or snacks. Three dhaba style restaurants are also available where you can get a normal meal OR you can choose to buy chicken and cook yourself.
> 
> *Proximity*
> There is a Jahaz Banda Waterfall night below the meadow. It take 20-25 minutes to get there as you need to go down hill. Nice place with good access to a water stream that is a bit calm!
> 
> There is another big waterfall some 5-6 Km away from the meadow but there is no trek to that place. Takes 4 to 5 hours as per locals, multiple it by two if you are not a resident.
> *
> View attachment 666011
> 
> 
> KATURA LAKE*
> Next morning (FRIDAY) a group of our team decided to go to Katura Lake. An alpine glacial lake at height of about 3500 m. It takes about 3 hours to reach there from Jahaz Banda meadows. On way there is a smaller lake as well, called Jahaz Banda Lake. The trek is a little bit difficult than the one to Jahaz Banda. There are two three climbs and then you go down each time as well so it means you will have to climb them again on way back. Plus there is no proper trek, you are walking through stones and boulders. Getting your ankel twisted is a painful possibility. Another important point is that there is not shade on this trek, no forest or trees so use, apply and carry good sun block with you. The sun there will burn your skin in minutes!
> 
> The last bit of trek to Katura is most fun, it is a small 50-60 feet climb up the rocks but the view from top make all this effort worth it!
> 
> _
> View attachment 666015
> 
> Katura Lake_
> It takes about 3 hours each way to and from the lake. Once back in Jahaz Banda it again depends on your preference and stamina. If pressed for time and with some gas in tank i will suggest you start your journey back to Thal to go to Kumrat valley! Otherwise you can choose to spend this second night in Jahaz Banda and leave early morning the next day.
> 
> Getting back to Thal from jahaz Banda should take you about 2:30 Hours! (remember that going up it took about 5 hours).
> 
> *KUMRAT VALLEY*
> While Jahaz Banda is also a meadow in upper reached of the valley, it is the valley and river bank itself that have attracted most attention so far! Once it Thank it takes about 1:30 Hours car journey to reach the main valley. The whole area is being developed for tourism so there are hundreds of tents, camps, huts and some hotels too!!
> 
> I will recommend camping or renting a camp/hut around a spot called Kumrat Waterfall.
> View attachment 666005
> 
> 
> From there it takes about an hour walk to Kala Chashma, 10-15 minutes to the waterfall. 5 minutes to Panjkora river!!
> 
> View attachment 666006
> 
> This is the spot where you need to come if you are looking for peace and relaxing. Hiking, trekking, climbing rocks, exploring glacial lakes is on thing and the peace and serenity of this place is another. Once in Kumrat, do enjoy both.


Just to update, recent heavy rainfall in the KPK region have created flash floods in Swat area with Kumrat valley also effected a bit. Not an ideal time to travel. Again, while Kumrat have not been effected very badly, there have been reports of some damage and plenty of land blockages because of landslides. 

Stay safe and plan your trip sensibly!

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## krash

Arsalan said:


> *In case you dont want to read the whole article/story here is a quick summary for you to help plan your visit:*
> 
> *Travel Time and Road Condition*
> Lahore to Islamabad 3:15 hours, motorway
> Islamabad to Chakdara 2:15 hours, motorway
> Chakdara to Timirgara, 1:15 hours, good road
> Timirgara to baab-e-kumrat, 2:00 hours, ok road
> baab-e-kumrat to sheringal, 1:30 hours, ok road
> Sheringal to Thal, 3:00 hours poor road
> 
> Total Travel Time from lahore to Thal with some tea breaks - 15 hours. Hectic as last leg is quite bumpy and tiresome!
> 
> Thal to Jahaz Banda
> 2:00 hours jeep ride to taki top
> 3:00 hours trekking to Jahaz Banda
> 
> Return from Jahaz Banda to Thal is about 3: hours
> 
> Thal to Kumrat:
> 1:30 hours drive to Kumrat (Waterfall)
> 
> Jahaz Banda to Katura Lake:
> 3:00 hours trekking to Katura,
> 3:00 hours back to Jahaz Banda
> 
> *Expense:*
> Hiace per day rent is 8000Rs
> Fuel cost plus toll tax from Lahore to Thal and Back was approximately 30,000Rs
> Jeep to Jahaz banda from thal 5000Rs
> Jeep to Thal from Jahaz Banda 3500 Rs
> Camping at Jahaz banda 2500 to 3000 rent of 4 person camp
> Jeep/car to Kumrat from Thal 5000 Rs
> Camping in Kumrat 2500 to 3000 rent of 4 person camp
> 
> *What to pack:*
> 
> Sleeping bag if you are camping on your own, not required if you want to rent a tent/hut as they have sleeping bags and blankets
> Torch (must)
> Water bottle for trek
> Mosquito repellent
> Sun block (must)
> Essential medicines (must)
> As far as dressing goes, we traveled in August. T-Shirt and Shorts for day times especially trekking. Light jacked for night/evening.
> 
> ================================================================================================================
> 
> Alright, here is a detailed account of recent trip as promised. Firstly, note that the original plan this year was to visit Deosai and Sakardu but there were number of issues that stopped us from going ahead with that plan and have to review our destination at last moment, deciding upon Kumrat. I am glad we did it, that is one spot off the list now! However, let me be clear, once you have been to GB, those dry terrifying mountains, there is not much that will make your jaws drop. Keeping that in mind, i found Kumrat to be "the next best thing".
> 
> *Trip Plan:*
> Considering the work schedule and family commitments of the whole group of friends we planned a short 4/5 day trip. Wednesday Departure, Sunday Return. Our past experience have taught us that it is best to go for a single destination if the time you have at that spot is two days or less. Add a second near by spot only if you have the third day otherwise it is all a bit of a hassle. However, sometimes it is still too tempting to forget that lesson and that is what we did!
> 
> Post corona induced lock-down it was not easy to get the whole gang together so we went ahead with 6 people only. However rather than going for a smaller car/vehicle we sticked to our old choice High-Roof/Hiace! It is comfortable, all group get to travel together and on a short trip with long travel time it gives you the option to sleep comfortably on the road! A bit expensive but the main thing is all friends are in one vehicle, travel is half the fun on such trips.
> 
> *Route details and condition:*
> We started our journey from Lahore on the evening of Wednesday. Departing at around 7:00 pm, the time line and route details for your reference is as follow:
> 
> *Lahore to Chakdara (5:30 Hours)* is motorway drive, takes about five and a half hour. We made a short stop and Chakri for tea and reached Chakdara at around 12:30 AM at night. On the Swat Express Way, right before Chakdara there are two road tunnels that are supposed to take you through the mountains between malakand and Swat. One of the tunnels is complete while the second one is still under construction so it needs a detour of about 15-20 minutes. Other than that it is all motorway.
> 
> Another stop at Chakdara cost is about 30-45 minutes.
> 
> *Chakdara to Timergara (1:15 hours)* road is in good condition. Try traveling through Timergara at early morning hours or in day time. This is a small town but one of the largest timber markets of Pakistan so the traffic gets bit of a problem specially at evening and early night hours as there are hundreds of trucks there loading timber to be transported all across the country. We crossed the town at around 2:30/3:00 AM so it was all clear.
> 
> Timirgara you need to continue on Dir Road for about 2 hours until you get to *Baab-e-Kumrat (2:00 Hours). *Again, road condition till here is pretty OK. We were traveling at night and there was no traffic at all. The road and area is not very dangerous either so it is safe to travel during night time. Specially if you are on a rented vehicle with a draive it is best as one can take rest on the way. We reached baab-e-Kumrat or the door to Kumrat valley at around 5:00 in the morning. The weather up to this point is pretty same Islamabad/Margalla Hills. Not cold that is! From Baab-e-Kumrat there are two roads, one going left to Dir and then Chitral (Dir is just about 25 minutes from this point) the other going left to Thal via Sheringal.
> 
> *Baab-e-Kurat to Sheringal (1:15-1:30 Hour) *road start to get a bit tricky but is still in ok condition. Takes about an hour to get to Shaheed Benazir Bhutto University, Sheringal in the Upper Dir district. The University is on road side and can be a good spot for breakfast OR even a stay (bachelors) in their hostel is possible if you talk your way to it. We however skipped it but keep that in mind as an option. With not many decent accommodations available on this route this is a good possible spot.
> 
> *Important to note that while we were travelling during night time and may have missed some things, there do not seem to be many restaurants or accommodations in this whole route. The most likely stop is to be at Thal (if required) and that too is not ideal as again, not many good or even decent options available. So this leg of journey have to be planned in one go without any night stop overs. All you can hope for is a decent meal or tea. *
> 
> We stopped for breakfast after Sheringal at a road side dhaba and it was BAD! I am not a big critic of food on such tours but this one was really bad. Luckily, there are plenty of apple and pear trees to be found on the road side and by the river side so just ask the first person you come across and he will say "jao jao,, jitna marzi ha khao bahi sahib" and you can end up having a pretty good and refreshing breakfast of farm fresh fruits picked from the tress by yourself. That is what we did and i think it was the best breakfast we had on the entire trip. Much required too after whole night of traveling and what was about to come. We left from here at around 7:30AM
> 
> From Sheringal the road is a mess right up to the first planned stop/destination on way to Kumrat, that is the town of THAL! Its bumpy and at spots, non-existent! That 30-35 Km journey take about 3 hours and that is if there are no traffic jams which i have been told are quite frequent. We were traveling at an ideal time both in terms of the day we were traveling and the time of that day so were lucky to get to* Thal at around 10:30 AM! *
> 
> Thal is a relatively big town and almost everything you will need for your trip will be available here. We were carrying the important things with us already but bought some biscuits, chips, tea bags, milk cartons, etc etc from here. From Thal you have two choice. If you are exhausted after the long journey, just rent a jeep from Thal and go to Kumrat. takes about 1:30 Hrs and you can camp or book an accommodation in countless huts and camps there. If you think you still have some energy in you you can choose the alternative which is to hire a jeep and start traveling to Jahaz banda. That is what we opted for.
> 
> *JAHAZ BANDA*
> Jahaz Banda is a large meadow in Kumrat Valley, some 3000 m above sea level. Takes about 2 hours on jeep track to a point called Taki Top. That is as far as the jeep can take you. From here onwards it is about 2:30 to 03:00 hour trekking to Jahaz Banda depending on how fit and use to one if to trekking at some height. Can take you from 2 to 4 hours!
> 
> View attachment 665992
> 
> _Jeep track to Taki Top on way to Jahaz Banda_
> 
> The jeep track is pretty normal, not too risky or dangerous looking. If you have been to even Siri Paye and/or Saif-ul-Malooq you will find this one pretty simple. If you have been to fairy meadows you wont even notice that this is a JEEP TRACK.
> 
> From Taki Top one can either hire a mule or do some trekking. To further explain the trekking, first 25-30 minutes if trek is a steep climb, that is where many people give up and decide to hire a mule! Avoid that! Push trough these first 25-30 minutes whatever way you can and once on top it is a relatively straight forward WALK for about an hour, an hour and a half! Last stretch is again a hike, 20-25 minutes, less stepper than the first part but still a bit more than the middle part you have walked though. If you have done it previously, you will be able to do this in two, two and a half hours total. Not very difficult, it is just that first climb that is a bit demotivating to some. Go through with that one.
> 
> *At the end of this you will have reached Jahaz Banda Meadows. A beautiful place indeed. We reached the place around 2:00 PM*
> View attachment 666007
> 
> 
> View attachment 666008
> 
> _Evening in Jahaz Banda_
> 
> There are plenty or tent camps and huts available. Plus a lot of new huts and hotels were being built too.
> 
> Unless you are traveling on a national holiday you will be ok. Still you may google and decide to book in advance. On spot, you can get a tent for 4 people for 2000 to 3000 Rs per night on normal days. However the same tent was also being given on rent for 15000 Rs on the weekend as it was a long weekend with August 14th holiday and a lot of visitors were there!! So if you are traveling on such occasion better book in advance. We had our own camps with us so it was not a problem. You can camp anywhere you want, we chose a good spot that was away from the rush, had good view and was close to a camping site of a local guy.
> 
> Preferable camp close to an existing site and give the owner of that site 500-1000 Rs for camping there for the entire trip, they will provide some security to the camp when you are away exploring the area.
> View attachment 666009
> 
> _View from our camp_
> 
> Toilets are available all around the meadow but there are like 8-10 of them. If you are there on regular days then that is fine but on rush days it becomes bit of a problem. however with new huts and hotels being constructed i hope this wont be a problem by next year! A couple of canteens also available where you can get tea or snacks. Three dhaba style restaurants are also available where you can get a normal meal OR you can choose to buy chicken and cook yourself.
> 
> *Proximity*
> There is a Jahaz Banda Waterfall night below the meadow. It take 20-25 minutes to get there as you need to go down hill. Nice place with good access to a water stream that is a bit calm!
> 
> There is another big waterfall some 5-6 Km away from the meadow but there is no trek to that place. Takes 4 to 5 hours as per locals, multiple it by two if you are not a resident.
> *
> View attachment 666011
> 
> 
> KATURA LAKE*
> Next morning (FRIDAY) a group of our team decided to go to Katura Lake. An alpine glacial lake at height of about 3500 m. It takes about 3 hours to reach there from Jahaz Banda meadows. On way there is a smaller lake as well, called Jahaz Banda Lake. The trek is a little bit difficult than the one to Jahaz Banda. There are two three climbs and then you go down each time as well so it means you will have to climb them again on way back. Plus there is no proper trek, you are walking through stones and boulders. Getting your ankel twisted is a painful possibility. Another important point is that there is not shade on this trek, no forest or trees so use, apply and carry good sun block with you. The sun there will burn your skin in minutes!
> 
> The last bit of trek to Katura is most fun, it is a small 50-60 feet climb up the rocks but the view from top make all this effort worth it!
> 
> _
> View attachment 666015
> 
> Katura Lake_
> It takes about 3 hours each way to and from the lake. Once back in Jahaz Banda it again depends on your preference and stamina. If pressed for time and with some gas in tank i will suggest you start your journey back to Thal to go to Kumrat valley! Otherwise you can choose to spend this second night in Jahaz Banda and leave early morning the next day.
> 
> Getting back to Thal from jahaz Banda should take you about 2:30 Hours! (remember that going up it took about 5 hours).
> 
> *KUMRAT VALLEY*
> While Jahaz Banda is also a meadow in upper reached of the valley, it is the valley and river bank itself that have attracted most attention so far! Once it Thank it takes about 1:30 Hours car journey to reach the main valley. The whole area is being developed for tourism so there are hundreds of tents, camps, huts and some hotels too!!
> 
> I will recommend camping or renting a camp/hut around a spot called Kumrat Waterfall.
> View attachment 666005
> 
> 
> From there it takes about an hour walk to Kala Chashma, 10-15 minutes to the waterfall. 5 minutes to Panjkora river!!
> 
> View attachment 666006
> 
> This is the spot where you need to come if you are looking for peace and relaxing. Hiking, trekking, climbing rocks, exploring glacial lakes is on thing and the peace and serenity of this place is another. Once in Kumrat, do enjoy both.



Nicely done. This post would prove to be quite helpful to many of us. Thank you!



Arsalan said:


> However, let me be clear, once you have been to GB, those dry terrifying mountains, there is not much that will make your jaws drop.



Ain't that the truth.

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