# Charlie Hebdo’s new edition to have Muhammad cartoons



## DV RULES

There will “obviously” be Muhammad cartoons in the next edition of Charlie Hebdo, the magazine’s lawyer has announced.

_“We will not give up, otherwise all of this will not have any sense,”_ Charlie Hebdo’s lawyer, Richard Malka, said in an interview to France Info radio. _“The spirit of Charlie is the right to blasphemy,"_ he added.

One of Charlie Hebdo’s cartoonists, Luz, gave an assurance that those who survived the tragedy were busy working on a new edition.

_"We are okay, we get by,”_ Luz told another radio channel, France Inter.

_“Nightmares are fading away and we are preoccupied with making a magazine."_

_The new edition of Charlie Hebdo is due to be released on Wednesday and the print run will be a million, instead of the usual 60,000.

"The sign ‘Je suis Charlie’ means you have the right to criticize my religion, because it does not matter,” Malka said. “No one has the right to criticize a Jew because he is a Jew, a Muslim because he is a Muslim, a Christian because he is a Christian. But you can say anything you want, including the worst things, and we do say them about Christianity, Judaism and Islam, because beyond all of the beautiful slogans, that's the reality of Charlie Hebdo."

The magazine is appealing for donations to help it carry on. “Charlie Hebdo needs you to survive,” its website says.

And considerable resources have already been collected.

A million Euros has been donated by the French government to keep the magazine going, Le Figaro reported. 250,000 Euros has been provided by the French Fund for Digital Innovation and another 250,000 Euros are coming from French publishers. The Guardian Media Group has pledged £100,000 (128,000 Euros) in support. 

​Charlie Hebdo’s new edition to have Muhammad cartoons — RT News

_

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## Shot-Caller

These people are no less than the killers. They are also extremist in their heads.

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## psynic

Satyamev Jayate.



The-Authority said:


> These people are no less than the killers. They are also extremist in their heads.



Except they don't kill

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## Kinetic

> _"The sign ‘Je suis Charlie’ means you have the right to criticize my religion, because it does not matter,” Malka said. “No one has the right to criticize a Jew because he is a Jew, a Muslim because he is a Muslim, a Christian because he is a Christian. But you can say anything you want, including the worst things, and we do say them about Christianity, Judaism and Islam, because beyond all of the beautiful slogans, that's the reality of Charlie Hebdo."_



*Well said Sir!! We should take the religions lightly!!! They are causing a great deal of problems in our life*_*.* _

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## Gabriel92

Charlie Hebdo was criticizing all extremists of all religions,and even extremists politics.
I personally hope that they will continue publishing ! (if they give up,the terrorists will win.)

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## rockstar08



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## ares



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## Shot-Caller

psynic said:


> Except they don't kill


Yea they just like hurting the sentiments of more than a billion 'living' people which is alright.

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## illusion8

The-Authority said:


> Yea they just like hurting the sentiments of more than a billion 'living' people which is alright.



There is a bigger issue to worry about - extremists hurting the sentiments of the remaining 6 billion.

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## psynic

The-Authority said:


> Yea they just like hurting the sentiments of more than a billion 'living' people which is alright.



@illusion said it all. 

The extremists you compare them to killed humanity 12 times over according to your own book, and you seem to see no difference.

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## Shot-Caller

psynic said:


> @illusion said it all.
> 
> The extremists you compare them to killed humanity 12 times over according to your own book, and you seem to see no difference.


Yea both of them are to be condemned.



illusion8 said:


> There is a bigger issue to worry about - extremists hurting the sentiments of the remaining 6 billion.


Yea so its an undeclared war against every Muslim. I wonder why these world leaders sugar coat it by saying terrorism has nothing to do with Muslims. When they clearly think of every Muslim as a terrorist.

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## Mutakalim

Worst days for Muslim. The boundaries of right and wrong are so mixed up that one can’t adopt right path. May Allah protect us all.

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## ito

I knew this was coming. By killing cartoonists the terrorists cannot cower others into submitting to their views. The world cannot let terrorists win.

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## Guynextdoor2

The extremists killed thinking they'll cow down the magazine- I can see how much the magazine is 'quivering' because of such threats.

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## ito

karakoram said:


> If they do so then they should be ready for consequences to dealt with. They cannot do anything in the name of freedom of speech. Next target will be terry jones i believe. :-D :-D that pussy priest :-D



Are you from Al Queida? How do you know that next target is terry jones?

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## Hyperion

The right path is pretty well defined for followers of Islam (rest have their own faiths). Follow the Quran. Quran only. Nothing but the Quran.



SaG E Jillani88 said:


> Worst days for Muslim. The boundaries of right and wrong are so mixed up that one can’t adopt right path. May Allah protect us all.

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## karakoram

ito said:


> Are you from Al Queida? How do you know that next target is terry jones?


Yes got message from al zaveehri via facebook :-D :-D. Mark my words

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## Mutakalim

Hyperion said:


> The right path is pretty well defined for followers of Islam (rest have their own faiths). Follow the Quran. Quran only. Nothing but the Quran.


What is you opinion regarding this issue


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## p4kistan

I do not condone the hebdo attacks, in fact I condemn them.

Idiots are playing with a fire again and will inevitably get burnt. then they'll whine about freedom of expression.

Criticise, critique, mock, ridicule Islam as a religion as much as you want but the line is drawn when our prophet is insulted.

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## SarthakGanguly

karakoram said:


> If they do so then they should be ready for consequences to dealt with. They cannot do anything in the name of freedom of speech. Next target will be terry jones i believe. :-D :-D that pussy priest :-D


Moderate spotted. Hmm.

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## Hyperion

My opinion is that the bastards who committed this crime, even their children need to be murdered for giving Muslims a bad name. Allah SWT and his Prophet PBUH, do not require AK wielding assholes to protect their honor. In my view, those Arab bastards killed humanity many times over.



SaG E Jillani88 said:


> What is you opinion regarding this issue

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## ito

karakoram said:


> Yes got message from al zaveehri via facebook :-D :-D. Mark my words



if they haven't come from you. don't post on net. the net is full of spies. net is not any more anonymous.

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## p4kistan

Hyperion said:


> My opinion is that the bastards who committed this crime, even their children need to be murdered for giving Muslims a bad name. Allah SWT and his Prophet PBUH, do not require AK wielding assholes to protect their honor. In my view, those Arab bastards killed humanity many times over.



And what have their children done? Your espousing the true islam and then you want to murder an innocent child. it doesn't make sense.

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## jaunty

ares said:


>



He should try sitting on it.

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## Solomon2

The-Authority said:


> These people are no less than the killers. They are also extremist in their heads.





They were not out to license or condone violence - but you are. The terrorist is in_ your_ heart, Authority, not in the hearts of these irreverent cartoonists.

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## Mutakalim

Hyperion said:


> My opinion is that the bastards who committed this crime, even their children need to be murdered for giving Muslims a bad name. Allah SWT and his Prophet PBUH, do not require AK wielding assholes to protect their honor. In my view, those Arab bastards killed humanity many times over.


So what needs to be done by muslims


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## karakoram

SarthakGanguly said:


> Moderate spotted. Hmm.


Freedom of speech i believe. Tum karo tuh cool hum karein tuh WTF :-D :-D

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## jaunty

Excellent news. I was just saying the other day that they should not change their style. They make cartoons of all religions, so they were not targeting one particular faith. I hope that they publish the next issue in English too, so that people like us would be able to enjoy it. Can't wait.

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## TurAr

p4kistan said:


> Idiots are playing with a fire again and will inevitably get burnt. then they'll whine about freedom of expression.
> 
> Criticise, critique, mock, ridicule Islam as a religion as much as you want but the line is drawn when our prophet is insulted.



Nobody have to respect your lines. Especially not after you threaten to murder them if they ever cross it. Unfortunately, you guys are gonna learn it in a hard way.

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## hussain0216

Pouring fuel on a raging fire,

They will draw the cartoons, then it will be a count down before they get whacked

Then it will be crying and holding pencils aloft in the rain like a bunch of morons again


This is why many didn't give a toss the first bunch of dopes got finished, 

*You cant stick your head in a lions mouth and then flick his testicles with a wet towel and expect nothing to happen*

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## rajnikant

Hyperion said:


> My opinion is that the bastards who committed this crime, even their children need to be murdered for giving Muslims a bad name. Allah SWT and his Prophet PBUH, do not require AK wielding assholes to protect their honor. In my view, those Arab bastards killed humanity many times over.


this should have been a unanimous reply from "Muslims" atleast thats what I thought a sane person would have said. that would have given extremist a good reply.


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## TankMan

Shows the idiocy of extremists, above all. The more nonsense, noise and murder you do, the more you'll insult Islam. Those extremists murdering people while screaming God's name are more offensive than any cartoons ever could be.

But if these Hebdo people think they are doing any good by purposely offending the religious sentiments of 1.7 billion people, they're wrong. This isn't freedom of speech, it's simply being rude and insensitive. The problem is that Muslims like me who want to stand by the victims, by the 'civilized world' and against terrorism can't do it fully, because those people don't seem to even consider respecting us - why should I respect them? I feel sorry for them and would never _not condemn _their killings and would always stand behind victims of terrorism - but I don't respect them, simply because they don't respect me and my beliefs.

Criticism, debating and legitimate, productive speech is perfectly fine - but Charile Hebdo doesn't want to do any of that. The only purpose of those cartoons is to offend and that's it.

But then, you people can do whatever you want to - we'll continue fighting extremists and terrorists, despite everyone else doing their best to give them more ammo and recruits.

An old video but very relevant:







Hyperion said:


> My opinion is that the bastards who committed this crime, even their children need to be murdered for giving Muslims a bad name. Allah SWT and his Prophet PBUH, do not require AK wielding assholes to protect their honor. In my view, those Arab bastards killed humanity many times over.


Agreed, but why kill their children - just don't let them reproduce in the first place.

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## hussain0216

TurAr said:


> Nobody have to respect your lines. Especially not after you threaten to murder them if they ever cross it. Unfortunately, you guys are gonna learn it in a hard way.





You cant be irresponsible and deaf to world affairs the consequences are dire

Let them mock the Holocaust or even draw funny pictures of the Charlie hebdo massacre or the jews in the shop before they insult the prophet


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## Pride

"I am Charlie", I offend the Hypocrisy of every religion even being with in religion as religion is something which should grow and not stop. If you can't take offence then either you don't understand religion or you are moron not to follow the right process of protest.

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## hussain0216

TurAr said:


> Nobody have to respect your lines. Especially not after you threaten to murder them if they ever cross it. Unfortunately, you guys are gonna learn it in a hard way.





You cant be irresponsible and deaf to world affairs the consequences are dire

Let them mock the Holocaust or even draw funny pictures of the Charlie hebdo massacre or the jews in the shop before they insult the prophet


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## Shot-Caller

Solomon2 said:


> They were not out to license or condone violence - but you are. The terrorist is in_ your_ heart, Authority, not in the hearts of these irreverent cartoonists.


I've always condemned the killings. But its like you're rubbing your hand on a knife and expecting not to get cut. You know there are extremists out there who won't think twice before picking up a gun and then all the Muslims will be called terrorists once again if something like this happens. So why start the drama?


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## Solomon2

TankMan said:


> This isn't freedom of speech, it's simply being rude and insensitive.


It is freedom of speech AND it's being rude and insensitive.

I think it's important to divide FoS from freedom of expression. FoS is fine but FoE may not be. I've cited the cross-burning example earlier. Charlie Henbo on the newsstands is fine; Charlie Henbo papered over Muslim graves would not be - and if such a thing happened, deadly force - murder - is not the correct reply.

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## Pride

hussain0216 said:


> Pouring fuel on a raging fire,
> 
> They will draw the cartoons, then it will be a count down before they get whacked
> 
> Then it will be crying and holding pencils aloft in the rain like a bunch of morons again
> 
> 
> This is why many didn't give a toss the first bunch of dopes got finished,
> 
> *You cant stick your head in a lions mouth and then flick his testicles with a wet towel and expect nothing to happen*


You know what, you are claiming 1.5 B Muslims are "terrorists" and they should not be touched upon. If this is thought by others then why are you offended?

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## Solomon2

The-Authority said:


> I've always condemned the killings. But its like you're rubbing your hand on a knife and expecting not to get cut. You know there are extremists out there who won't think twice before picking up a gun and then all the Muslims will be called terrorists once again if something like this happens. So why start the drama?


Because you're a terror apologist. Since the Peshawar school massacre haven't Pakistanis recognized that such apologists are also enemies?

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## TankMan

Solomon2 said:


> It is freedom of speech AND it's being rude and insensitive.
> 
> I think it's important to divide FoS from freedom of expression. FoS is fine but FoE may not be. I've cited the cross-burning example earlier. Charlie Henbo on the newsstands is fine; Charlie Henbo papered over Muslim graves would not be - and if such a thing happened, deadly force - murder - is not the correct reply.


That's a good point - freedom of speech vs freedom of expression. We should have a thread on that, it's really important. 

Deadly force is not an acceptable reply to anything except deadly force.


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## ito

The-Authority said:


> I've always condemned the killings. But its like you're rubbing your hand on a knife and expecting not to get cut. You know there are extremists out there who won't think twice before picking up a gun and then all the Muslims will be called terrorists once again if something like this happens. So why start the drama?



Muslims are in no position to dictate or threaten the west. West is immensely more powerful than all the Muslim countries combined and even many power Muslim countries are proxies of west. Some terrorists killed 3000 Americans in the name of Islam on 9/11 and in return Americans killed some 80,000 Muslims and are still killing. The best strategy for Muslims is to let the whole thing die down or ignore or protest through right channels. Threatening won't help.


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## Shot-Caller

Solomon2 said:


> Because you're a terror apologist. Since the Peshawar school massacre haven't Pakistanis recognized that such apologists are also enemies?


I'm no apologist. I condemn Paris killing as much as I condemn Peshawar attack. But i condemn these magazines daring these extremists too because when they go on a killing spree its affects have been and will be felt by Muslims all around the world.

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## ito

hussain0216 said:


> Let them mock your monkey God or elephant god or let them mock the Holocaust
> 
> you dont seem to care so why should they
> 
> but to be so irresponsible to incite people in a world which is already on the brink is just plain stupid



Let them mock my monkey God or elephant God. Promise I won't be hurt, because my belief in my religion is so strong that it won't make a difference. My religion is immensely above those insults.

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## Shot-Caller

ito said:


> Muslims are in no position to dictate or threaten the west. West is immensely more powerful than all the Muslim countries combined and even many power Muslim countries are proxies of west. Some terrorists killed 3000 Americans in the name of Islam on 9/11 and in return Americans killed some 80,000 Muslims and are still killing. The best strategy for Muslims is to let the whole thing die down or ignore or protest through right channels. Threatening won't help.


You know this post of yours can justify a 1000 terrorist attacks in future. Some extremist Muslims killed 3000 people and in return Americans killed 80,000 Muslims. That's what they use to brainwash people i suppose and unfortunately its a reality. Where were all you charlies when 80,000 Muslims were being killed? Is French blood worth more? 12 of them get killed and you all go Charlie. 80,000 were killed out of which majority were innocents and you had nothing to say. Hypocrites LOL.

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## ito

The-Authority said:


> You know this post of yours can justify a 1000 terrorist attacks in future. Some extremist Muslims killed 3000 people and in return Americans killed 80,000 Muslims. That's what they use to brainwash people i suppose and unfortunately its a reality. Where were all you charlies when 80,000 Muslims were being killed? Is French blood worth more? 12 of them get killed and you all go Charlie. 80,000 were killed out of which majority were innocents and you had nothing to say. Hypocrites LOL.



How come my post justify 1000 terrorist attacks?. I condemned Peshawar and I am condemning Charlie. What I am saying is that Muslims are in position to take on West, and I am sure you would agree on that


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## Kabira

Gabriel92 said:


> Charlie Hebdo was criticizing all extremists of all religions,and even extremists politics.
> I personally hope that they will continue publishing ! (if they give up,the terrorists will win.)



Personally i don't care, they should publish as much as they want. But give me a fooking break about freedom of speech line, they never dared to attack certain comunity 

Insulting muslims have become huge business, just look how many millions € this magazine is getting now.

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## Shot-Caller

ito said:


> How come my post justify 1000 terrorist attacks?. I condemned Peshawar and I am condemning Charlie. What I am saying is that Muslims are in position to take on West, and I am sure you would agree on that


Forget it.



save_ghenda said:


> Personally i don't care, they should publish as much as they want. But give me a fooking break about freedom of speech line, they never dared to attack certain comunity
> 
> Insulting muslims have become huge business, just look how many millions € this magazine is getting now.


Muslim unity is the need of time.


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## illusion8

The-Authority said:


> Yea both of them are to be condemned.
> 
> 
> Yea so its an undeclared war against every Muslim. I wonder why these world leaders sugar coat it by saying terrorism has nothing to do with Muslims. When they clearly think of every Muslim as a terrorist.




I wouldn't be least envious about you at the moment, most Muslims would find themselves as the saying goes "between the rock and a hard place". Condone the attack and say they had it coming is proclaiming yourself to be a sympathizer of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, condemn the attack in a real sense to sound moderate - then you come out as west's sympathizer.

As for the Muslims vs others - I am sure many Islamists would be rubbing their hands in glee if that's the perception.

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## Pride

hussain0216 said:


> Let them mock your monkey God or elephant god or let them mock the Holocaust
> 
> you dont seem to care so why should they
> 
> but to be so irresponsible to incite people in a world which is already on the brink is just plain stupid


They did and we handled by the meaningful protest and not by blowing them up. Charlie is mocking Jews and Chiristians most, they did not go to kill them, who did? Whose offence does not have patience which comes from true religion. Read your holy Book there are many mentioning of such events which was handled calmly by Prophet(PBUH) then why you or 1.5 B are being Idiot!



hussain0216 said:


> You worship idols and animals it doesn't matter if things like these are mocked
> 
> *islam is more important* and to incite a response from 1.7 billion Muslims creating more chaos in a broken world bis dangerous if not stupid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its not always a numbers game, the amount the US has wasted in the last decade is enormous
> 
> you have to fight and stand for something
> 
> 
> its all good hindus saying you should bow your head in front of someone more powerful than you but sometimes you need to fight for your beliefs regardless of the cost


These supremacist thought is bringing you at think juncture.

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## coffee_cup

The-Authority said:


> These people are no less than the killers. They are also extremist in their heads.



At end of the day, it is idiots vs. idiots - measuring their *****!

And unfortunately, _we_ - the common folks in the world - have to suffer for their actions.

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## rubyjackass

hussain0216 said:


> You worship idols and animals it doesn't matter if things like these are mocked


You just did to Hinduism what CharlieHebdo did to Islam. Nobody is coming after you with a gun or saying you should be killed. I think the point is made.

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## Kabira

rubyjackass said:


> You just did to Hinduism what CharlieHebdo did to Islam. Nobody is coming after you with a gun or saying you should be killed. I think the point is made.



What point? Pdf is full of hindu extremists who insult muslims evry day, no one goes after them. Your pathetic points are epic failure.

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## Kaniska

why the Muslim people are so religious in nature?..Sometimes i even question to myself...For every small thing, you start reciting lot of religious thing..


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## ranjeet

hussain0216 said:


> I am not advocating killing them, I am saying in a unstable world inciting people is stupid and irresponsible
> 
> 
> their is no comparison between your paganism and Gods will


My imaginary friend is more real that your God.

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## Pride

hussain0216 said:


> I am not advocating killing them, I am saying in a unstable world inciting people is stupid and irresponsible
> 
> 
> *their is no comparison between your paganism and Gods will*




Well, You are one of them who is getting offended by the act even before seeing them. Why? Can't you take the criticism?
Don't you know the civilized way of protesting? Filing a lawsuit just for starting. Why only Muslims gets offended and start killing for such acts? You need introspection and not finger pointing.

You are also mentioning other's (my) religion in demeaning way but I am not asking for your address and arranging some one to kill you.

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## ranjeet

save_ghenda said:


> What point? Pdf is full of hindu extremists who insult muslims evry day, no one goes after them. Your pathetic points are epic failure.


Muslims insult other muslims more than anyone else. yet we see is silence and nothing else. are you that fcukin afraid to speak up?

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## Pride

save_ghenda said:


> What point? Pdf is full of hindu extremists who insult muslims evry day, no one goes after them. Your pathetic points are epic failure.


your whole country is built on Religious extremism and you got a finger to point on us? This is biggest irony!

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## Foggy_Bottom

p4kistan said:


> I do not condone the hebdo attacks, in fact I condemn them.
> 
> Idiots are playing with a fire again and will inevitably get burnt. then they'll whine about freedom of expression.
> 
> Criticise, critique, mock, ridicule Islam as a religion as much as you want but the line is drawn when our prophet is insulted.



What did the prophet do when he himself got insulted?

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## ranjeet

hussain0216 said:


> But your imaginary friends have heads of elephant's, faces of monkeys, as many hands and legs as a spider
> 
> You cant compare your nonsense to Gods will


how do you know what exactly is God's will? are you trying to play prophet here?

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## Pride

hussain0216 said:


> But your imaginary friends have heads of elephant's, faces of monkeys, as many hands and legs as a spider
> 
> You cant compare your nonsense to Gods will


When God itself is Fantasy then how does it matter in which shape and siize he comes. When you meet and greet your Supremacist GOD then take a snap, I will come and join you. Till then keep your nonsense in your butt hole.

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## Jango

@Syed.Ali.Haider 

So much for understanding each other's point of view and respecting them.

It takes two hands to clap.


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## hussain0216

Pride said:


> When God itself is Fantasy then how does it matter in which shape and siize he comes. When you meet and greet your Supremacist GOD then take a snap, I will come and join you. Till then keep your nonsense in your butt hole.



Dont you curtail my free speech


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## 13 kumaon

Good answer to terrorism keep going.

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## Not Sure

*Charlie Hebdo terrorist attacks a ‘cure’, says leader of Hizb ut-Tahrir Australia Ismail Alwahwah *







* THE leader of Hizb ut-Tahrir Australia has described the callous killing of Charlie Hebdo staff by Parisian Islamic terrorists as a “cure”. *

*Ismail Alwahwah, who also attended rallies with Martin Place gunman Man Haron Monis*, wrote a lengthy diatribe on the attack in which he claimed the attacks were a reaction to “daily humiliation” of Muslims and “insults to their book and prophet”.

The Bankstown man – whose organisation describe themselves as a “political party whose ideology is Islam” – headed his vile article *“Commentary on Charlie Hebdo and the physical law of compression”* and used scientific analogies to justify the brutal slaughter.

“The pressure — is responsible for triggering the explosion, the cure has always focused on eliminating pressure or reducing it,” he wrote.

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## Devil Soul

Terrorist VS Terrorist .....1 using a name of religion other one hiding behind freedom of expression..


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## Butchcassidy

ranjeet said:


> how do you know what exactly is God's will? are you trying to play prophet here?


He is god's representative on this planet

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## Areesh

Well that's why I said on another thread. I am not Charlie. Just a bunch of f*cking moronic bigots.


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## livingdead

Perfect response to terrorism. More blasphemy, till it becomes so borning and banal, people dont even bother.
In any case they are much less offensive than draw a mohammed day cartoons.

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## Areesh

hinduguy said:


> Perfect response to terrorism.* More blasphemy, till it becomes so borning and banal, people dont even bother.*
> In any case they are much less offensive than draw a mohammed day cartoons.



Bold part. Not going to happen. When it comes to Prophet Mohammad(PBUH) we won't take anything casual.

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## VCheng

Jango said:


> @Syed.Ali.Haider
> 
> So much for understanding each other's point of view and respecting them.
> 
> It takes two hands to clap.



It will take much hard work and time to rebuild bridges that are being torn down.


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## livingdead

Areesh said:


> Bold part. Not going to happen. When it comes to Prophet Mohammad(PBUH) we won't take anything casual.


it takes time.. 
when 9/11 happened most pakistanis did not feel much sympathy..some were even happy it happened..
after nearly 30k deaths of their own people, their ideas about terrorism is complete different now.

When first cartoon episode happened.. muslim across the world burnt their own places... now charlie hebdo and draw a mohammed day later.. not much incident...
It does not mean people wont feel offended though, I feel offended if they do similar with hinduism. That is natural. However people need to be taught to ignore it. It requires practice.

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## Winchester

Agreed...truly a time of _fitna_



SaG E Jillani88 said:


> Worst days for Muslim. The boundaries of right and wrong are so mixed up that one can’t adopt right path. May Allah protect us all.


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## Jobless Jack

Pride said:


> I am not stopping I am just saying keep it in right place which unfortunately is your hole.


ah but you shouldnt insult his freedom of expression either. the insult itself goes against the freedom of expression of people


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## Areesh

hinduguy said:


> it takes time..
> when 9/11 happened most pakistanis did not feel much sympathy..some were even happy it happened..
> after nearly 30k deaths of their own people, their ideas about terrorism is complete different now.
> 
> When first cartoon episode happened.. muslim across the world burnt their own places... now charlie hebdo and draw a mohammed day later.. not much incident...
> It does not mean people wont feel offended though, I feel offended if they do similar with hinduism. That is natural. However people need to be taught to ignore it. It requires practice.



Well they continued with their idiocy. And from destroying their own places 2 out of 1.7 billion killed 10 of them. Things went from bad to worst. From protests in own countries to attack directly in the office in Paris. As I said. You continue with this and it is only a matter of time when something happens like paris attack. 
Muslims are not going to take things casual on issues related to Prophet Mohammad(PBUH). Never happened and I don't see that happening in the future.

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## Not Sure

How apparent it is that Muslims worldwide have no problem when freedom of speech is protected for these lunatics...





































...and they are not just a handful out of a vast majority either.

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## livingdead

Areesh said:


> Well they continued with their idiocy. And from destroying their own places 2 out of 1.7 billion killed 10 of them. Things went from bad to worst. From protests in own countries to attack directly in the office in Paris. As I said. You continue with this and it is only a matter of time when something happens like paris attack.
> Muslims are not going to take things casual on issues related to Prophet Mohammad(PBUH). Never happened and I don't see that happening in the future.


I am optimistic. Its going to happen. Human nature. Also force of modernity is impossible to fight against. 
And yes, in short term, there will be more violent attack. You dont stop doing the right thing because such fear though, because thats what terrorists want.

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## Areesh

hinduguy said:


> I am optimistic. Its going to happen. Human nature. Also force of modernity is impossible to fight against.
> And yes, in short term, there will be more violent attack. You dont stop doing the right thing because such fear though, because thats what terrorists want.



Human nature is also to protect whom it loves. Muslims think they are going according to the human nature since they love Prophet Mohammad(PBUH) more than anyone else. More than their own parents. By human nature I don't see anything changing. You are being foolishly optimistic.


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## tahsin

I for one won't feel saddened if there is another attack. This is deliberate provocation. If there is an attack on them by militants in the coming weeks, remember they are bringing it on themselves.

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## KingMamba

Who cares let them draw 100.


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## livingdead

Areesh said:


> Human nature is also to protect whom it loves. Muslims thing they are going according to the human nature since they love Prophet Mohammad(PBUH) more than anyone else. More than their own parents. By human nature I don't see anything changing. You are being foolishly optimistic.


I already gave you example of how muslim of 2001 is different from muslim of 2015. 
It does not mean it wont ever be insulting. I am pretty sure lot of christians feel insulted when jesus is targetted. That is not going to change.
what is going to change is the response of muslims.
In any case, lets agree to disagree. I know which side I am taking.

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## Areesh

hinduguy said:


> I already gave you example of how muslim of 2001 is different from muslim of 2015.
> It does not mean it wont ever be insulting. I am pretty sure lot of christians feel insulted when jesus is targetted. That is not going to change.
> what is going to change is the response of muslims.
> In any case, lets agree to disagree. I know which side I am taking.



Muslim of 2001 was burning its own place while in 2015 it attacked directly in Paris. Your own comparison doesn't support your optimism.

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## Rasengan

> Muslims are not going to take things casual on issues related to Prophet Mohammad(PBUH). Never happened and I don't see that happening in the future.



The basic tenants of Islam is based on the idea that a Muslim practices the five pillars of Islam. However a person's prayer becomes obsolete, if his love for Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) disappears from his heart and does not protect his honor as he is cherished by Allah. Therefore, the opinions of Muslim can never change on this particular topic and we will always defend him from such malicious intentions. However, we should use diplomacy and academic literature to combat these animals who wish to stir up tensions between communities.

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## livingdead

Areesh said:


> Muslim of 2001 was burning its own place while in 2015 it attacked directly in Paris. Your own comparison doesn't support your optimism.


the burning of own place was done by common 'peaceful' people.. where as attack was done by terrorists.. I would not know for sure whether the conversion from 'peaceful' common men to terrorist has accelerated or reduced.
Syria completely works against what I believe is the trend(less forthcoming in support of terror, less terror aplologist among muslims) but thats is going to be long term trend.

Anyway, its my opinion, you dont have to agree.


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## Areesh

hinduguy said:


> the burning of own place was done by common 'peaceful' people.. where as attack was done by terrorists.. I would not know for sure whether the conversion from 'peaceful' common men to terrorist has accelerated or reduced.
> Syria completely works against what I believe is the trend(less forthcoming in support of terror, less terror aplologist among muslims) but thats is going to be long term trend.
> 
> Anyway, its my opinion, you dont have to agree.



Being critical to terrorism or violence doesn't mean that bigots and racists of west would be allowed to mock and attack our religious figures under the garb of freedom of speech.

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## Dubious

Areesh said:


> Being critical to terrorism or violence doesn't mean that bigots and racists of west would be allowed to mock and attack our religious figures under the garb of freedom of speech.


Unfortunately that is their idea!

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## livingdead

Areesh said:


> Being critical to terrorism or violence doesn't mean that bigots and racists of west would be allowed to mock and attack our religious figures under the garb of freedom of speech.


unfortunately a lot of racists and bigots are also mixed in this .. no doubt .. but freedom of expression, no matter offensive is to be protected.
which is why I told you earlier, even those jihadis who march on london street, (pics above).. are exercising their free speech.. I support their right. You cant pick and choose.
The distinction between hate speech and robust criticism is not something I can force you to agree... for me drawing offensive cartoons of mohammed is free speech.. but saying bigoted things against muslims is hate speech.

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## Areesh

Rasengan said:


> The basic tenants of Islam is based on the idea that a Muslim practices the five pillars of Islam. However a person's prayer becomes obsolete, if his love for Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) disappears from his heart and does not protect his honor as he is cherished by Allah. Therefore, the opinions of Muslim can never change on this particular topic and we will always defend him from such malicious intentions. However, we should use diplomacy and academic literature to combat these animals who wish to stir up tensions between communities.



Exactly. This is the basic tenant of Islam to hold love for Prophet Mohammad(SAW). To hold him dear than anything else.



Akheilos said:


> Unfortunately that is their idea!



It is like. Since you condemn violence. Then allow me to attack your religion. 
Or since I don't give a sh!t about my religion, you muslims should do the same. F*ck logic.

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## ares



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## Dubious

Areesh said:


> It is like. Since you condemn violence. Then allow me to attack your religion.
> Or since I don't give a sh!t about my religion, you muslims should do the same. F*ck logic.


This is the thing I am tired off...in fact so tired I dont really care what they do...Their sin on them!

We dont know how prophet looks so any shit they draw is actually their own shit! 

Should have a hashtag on that one

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## Areesh

ares said:


>



Drawing a jew is far different from drawing a religious figure of a religion. Guess Indian IQ can't understand that difference.

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## KingMamba

Areesh said:


> Exactly. This is the basic tenant of Islam to hold love for Prophet Mohammad(SAW). To hold him dear than anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> It is like. Since you condemn violence. Then allow me to attack your religion.
> Or since I don't give a sh!t about my religion, you muslims should do the same. F*ck logic.



Love our prophet but I hope none of your support murdering people over his name, that defames him more than anything anybody can draw.

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## Areesh

Akheilos said:


> This is the thing I am tired off...in fact so tired I dont really care what they do...Their sin on them!
> 
> We dont know how prophet looks so any shit they draw is actually their own shit!
> 
> Should have a hashtag on that one



It should be #Jesuisracist or @jesuisbigot or #jesuisdevil

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## ares

Areesh said:


> Drawing a jew is far different from drawing a religious figure of a religion. Guess Indian IQ can't understand that difference.



WHY?


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## Areesh

KingMamba said:


> Love our prophet but I hope none of your support murdering people over his name, that defames him more than anything anybody can draw.



Nobody supports that. But then we can't take responsibility of 1.7 billion people. Can we? It is better if you not offend 1.7 billion people and push even the liberals towards radicalism.



ares said:


> WHY?



Because I am not attacking a jew religious figure. Simple. Draw a muslim extremist and I have no issues with that. Go make fun of Mullah Omar or that Baghdadi jerk.

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## Dubious

Areesh said:


> It should be #Jesuiracist or @jesuisbigot or #jesuisdevil


Errr not really...lets not follow their footsteps! 

More like this *#shit they draw is actually their own shit!*


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## KingMamba

Areesh said:


> Nobody supports that. But then we can't take responsibility of 1.7 billion people. Can we? *It is better if you not offend* 1.7 billion people and push even the liberals towards radicalism.



You are right that we as Muslims cannot guarantee that somebody will not commit violence since we are so many, this is the same point the Pakistani actor Abbasi was making but we should always speak out against violence. As for the bold I disagree while there might be double standards when it comes to free speech in some western countries we should support free speech anyway because it is the right thing to do.

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## Areesh

KingMamba said:


> You are right that we as Muslims cannot guarantee that somebody will not commit violence since we are so many, this is the same point the Pakistani actor Abbasi was making but we should always speak out against violence. As for the bold I disagree while there might be double standards when it comes to free speech in some western countries we should support free speech anyway because it is the right thing to do.



Some bigots free speech is not bigger than a billion plus people's sentiments.

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## JonAsad

Fcuk charlie hebdo-
If somethig like the attacks ever happens again on them they fully deserve it-

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## Dubious

ares said:


>


until and unless the drawing on the left is that of some prophet of JUDAISM that we dont know.......Which cant be true coz ALL Jewish prophets (except the female prophetess) are ours too...and we would never do any such thing!

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## Rasengan

> Exactly. This is the basic tenant of Islam to hold love for Prophet Mohammad(SAW). To hold him dear than anything else.



The western world is ignorant towards this fact, because there understanding of Islam is fairly limited, since most bigots have no academic background on Islamic history, culture and scriptural context. They just want to demonize a particular group of people in society so that they can achieve fame and money. To achieve spirituality and to become close to Allah, we have to love the Holy Prophet (PBUH) more than anyone we hold dear, which includes even are own parents. So therefore we should never change are stance, just because the western world is angry with us or are trying to intimidate us.

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## JonAsad

Charlie hebdo will make an extremist out of many ordinary muslims. Thats counter productive.


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## Dubious

KingMamba said:


> Love our prophet but I hope none of your support murdering people over his name, that defames him more than anything anybody can draw.


double that but just coz half of us *pointed out why* the killing happened does that make us apologist or analysts? 

And because 99% of what we said was neither made up nor something a white didnt write later on in the week.....is it wrong or deliberate? 

Why are people sooo damn afraid to know the WHY factor? Shouldnt people want to know to avoid further killings?


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## Areesh

Rasengan said:


> The western world is ignorant towards this fact, because there understanding of Islam is fairly limited, since most bigots have no academic background on Islamic history, culture and scriptural context. They just want to demonize a particular group of people in society so that they can achieve fame and money. To achieve spirituality and to become close to Allah, we have to love the Holy Prophet (PBUH) more than anyone we hold dear, which includes even are own parents. So therefore we should never change are stance, just because the western world is angry with us or are trying to intimidate us.



Exactly. Today we would ignore these cartoons Tomorrow there would be complete movies and even TV shows targeting and mocking our Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). Some people in the west need to control their bigotry for a billion plus humans of this world. We won't change our position on Prophet Mohammad(PBUH). It is simply not possible for us.


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## Pride

Jobless Jack said:


> ah but you shouldnt insult his freedom of expression either. the insult itself goes against the freedom of expression of people


I have "right to protest" with in my "Limits" which is my freedom of speech. I didn't ask for his address to blow him up.. didn't I?

Freedom of Speech is both ways, you may protest Charlie's work and can file a lawsuit but what your "Ummah" brothers did is neither a way nor acceptable.

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## Dubious

JonAsad said:


> Charlie hebdo will make an extremist out of many ordinary muslims. Thats counter productive.


It shouldnt happen....If we truly follow Prophet we will have patience 

They can draw all they want will they manage to draw the prophet? Nope coz we and them dont know how he looks any shit they draw is a projection of their decayed mind!


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## JonAsad

Akheilos said:


> It shouldnt happen....If we truly follow Prophet we will have patience
> 
> They can draw all they want will they manage to draw the prophet? Nope coz we and them dont know how he looks any shit they draw is a projection of their decayed mind!



How can one ignore such blasphemous actions. As a muslim you just cant. My freedom of speech wish them more of such violent incidents.

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## ares

Areesh said:


> Because I am not attacking a jew religious figure. Simple. Draw a muslim extremist and I have no issues with that. Go make fun of Mullah Omar or that Baghdadi jerk.



Then you do not understand what satire is.
It is not about demonizing a person..it is a humorous way criticizing some one/something.

You dont have a problem with Mullah Omar or Jews being satirized because you are not a follower, but what about their followers, I guess they would take an extreme offense toMullah Omar being satirized..and they are more than capable of terrorism.

*So where to draw the line, where to curtail the freedom of expression? It is fine to "hurt feelings" of a few people but not 1.7 billion? Why?*

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## Dubious

JonAsad said:


> How can one ignore such blasphemous actions. As a muslim you just cant. My freedom of speech wish them more of such violent incidents.


 How? Coz fighting with shit will only get me dirty...Plus if they drew some creature how sure are you prophet looked like that and he didnt end up drawing 1 of them lazy sheikhs?



ares said:


> Then you do not understand what satire is.
> It is not about demonizing a person..it is a humorous way criticizing some one/something.
> 
> *You dont have a problem with Mullah Omar or Jews being satirized because you are not a follower*, but what about *their followers*,* I guess they would take an extreme offense toMullah Omar being satirized..and they are more than capable of terrorism.*
> 
> *So where to draw the line, where to curtail the freedom of expression? It is fine to "hurt feelings" of a few people but not 1.7 billion? Why?*
> 
> Is it because of the number


 So freedom of speech ISNT fighting Mullah Omar (extremist) just those who dont follow him?
And here we were being told it would be wrong to put the pen down and not continue offending 1.5 Billion but god forbid if some thousand were offended by Omar's satire?



Areesh said:


> Exactly. Today we would ignore these cartoons Tomorrow there would be complete movies and even TV shows targeting and mocking our Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). Some people in the west need to control their bigotry for a billion plus humans of this world. We won't change our position on Prophet Mohammad(PBUH). It is simply not possible for us.


Let them show...1 thing I have noticed is the more they subjugate us to BS of the extreme level the more people are like WHAT REALLY IS ISLAM!

How many converted to Islam after Danish attempt?

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## Areesh

ares said:


> Then you do not understand what satire is.
> It is not about demonizing a person..it is a humorous way criticizing some one/something.
> 
> You dont have a problem with Mullah Omar or Jews being satirized because you are not a follower, but what about their followers, I guess they would take an extreme offense toMullah Omar being satirized..and they are more than capable of terrorism.
> 
> *So where to draw the line, where to curtail the freedom of expression? It is fine to "hurt feelings" of a few people but not 1.7 billion? Why?*



Chances of someone killing for Mullah Omar in Paris is far less than someone killing for Prophet Mohammad(PBUH). In fact only a hardcore terrorist would kill for Mullah Omar in Paris. That doesn't similarly apply to Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) where even a normal muslim might go towards violence for those bigoted cartoons.



> *So where to draw the line, where to curtail the freedom of expression?*




Where it doesn't target a particular religion as a whole. When you target Prophet Mohammad(SAW) then you target whole of muslims instead of one particular sect or group.



> *It is fine to "hurt feelings" of a few people but not 1.7 billion? Why?*




Obviously. Is it really that hard to understand that you are asking such stupid questions here? Indian IQ can't even understand such a simple logic?


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## Rasengan

> but freedom of expression, no matter offensive is to be protected.



Freedom of expression has its limitation even in the western world, however its application is selective in nature. For example in the UK an individual cannot exercise his right in speaking vulgarly to a Police officer, because he would be arrested on the spot. Article 10 of the European Convention of Human Rights itself recognizes the need for some limitation on free speech. This is applied due to national security, the protection of health or morals and the protection of people's rights and reputation. A person can be sued in court for defamation because there character was assassinated, clearly this shows that speech is limited in the western world. In Austria, if someone denies the holocaust then he would be sent to prison. Children who go to school can be expelled, on the basis of using vulgar language against a teacher or on fellow students, however does that not stop freedom of expression. The western world has a selective syndrome of choosing what exactly is freedom of expression.

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## Areesh

Akheilos said:


> Let them show...1 thing I have noticed is the more they subjugate us to BS of the extreme level the more people are like WHAT REALLY IS ISLAM!
> 
> How many converted to Islam after Danish attempt?



Still I would hold the right to protest and raise voice against this bigotry and hate speech. Nobody should expect me to remain silent on this BS. We won't.

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## JonAsad

Akheilos said:


> How? Coz fighting with shit will only get me dirty...Plus if they drew some creature how sure are you prophet looked like that and he didnt end up drawing 1 of them lazy sheikhs?



Of course such restraint is expected from us Muslims. We are the flag bearers of tolerent people. This freedom of expression is becoming a provocation and when they provoke they better not cry when they face a reaction. The bad thing for them about this game is they now know pretty well what sort of reactions they gona get and i wish them exactly that.

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## mahesh.

JonAsad said:


> Charlie hebdo will make an extremist out of many ordinary muslims. Thats counter productive.



A cartoon can make a Muslim an extermist?? LOl Muslims are weak.

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## ares

Akheilos said:


> until and unless the drawing on the left is that of some prophet of JUDAISM that we dont know.......Which cant be true coz ALL Jewish prophets (except the female prophetess) are ours too...and we would never do any such thing!



It is drawing of generic demonizing of the common jewish people.

The pic is explains the irony of Muslims demonizing common jews in every day life, but getting extremely offended , when a simple portrait of Muhammad is drawn.



Akheilos said:


> So freedom of speech ISNT fighting Mullah Omar (extremist) just those who dont follow him?
> And here we were being told it would be wrong to put the pen down and not continue offending 1.5 Billion but god forbid if some thousand were offended by Omar's satire?



No my question was, 

* Is it okay to offend a few people but not many, just because they are many? *

I am sure Mullah Omar's( or for that matter any influential figure) followers...as avid believers in him as you are in your prophet.

So where to curtail the freedom of speech, is it just a number game?


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## Winchester

Apparently this wasn't the first time people reacted after being offended 

Here is the former leader of the free world 
Did the president propose to take out Al Jazeera? 

"The memorandum is actually a five-page transcript stamped "Top Secret." It describes a meeting at the White House on April 16, 2004, between President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair. At that meeting, which took place while desperately hard fighting was in progress in the Iraqi town of Fallujah, Bush mooted the idea of taking out the headquarters of Al Jazeera in Doha, Qatar. The network's correspondents inside the city had been transmitting lurid footage of extreme violence" 

and 

US Bombs Al-Jazeera Baghdad Office - Kills Cameraman


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## mahesh.

Areesh said:


> Chances of someone killing for Mullah Omar in Paris is far less than someone killing for Prophet Mohammad(PBUH). In fact only a hardcore terrorist would kill for Mullah Omar in Paris. That doesn't similarly apply to Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) where even a normal muslim might go towards violence for those bigoted cartoons.
> 
> 
> 
> Where it doesn't target a particular religion as a whole. When you target Prophet Mohammad(SAW) then you target whole of muslims instead of one particular sect or group.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously. Is it really that hard to understand that you are asking such stupid questions here? Indian IQ can't even understand such a simple logic?



Every body in France are free to oppose what CH does in a democratic way.


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## Dubious

ares said:


> It is drawing of generic demonizing of the common jewish people.
> 
> The pic is explains the irony of Muslims demonizing common jews in every day life, but getting extremely offended , when a simple portrait of Muhammad is drawn.


But you are yet to say Hebdo did wrong but you are quick to defend a random Jewish cartoon?



ares said:


> No my question was,
> 
> * Is it okay to offend a few people but not many, just because they are many? *
> 
> *I am sure Mullah Omar's( or for that matter any influential figure) followers...as avid believers in him as you are in your prophet.*
> 
> So where to curtail the freedom of speech, is it just a number game?


It is way ok to exercise you freedom (as every bloody person tries to say) on where they wanted to ...they said that the pen is REFUTING THE EXTREMIST...So why not draw an extremist? Why offend a larger group? THAT is my question...

you are afraid of Mullah Omar and offending him But it is fine to offend 1.5- 1.7 billion and claim you are fighting Mullah Omar but not the 1.5- 1.7 billion?

When you lie you are against extremism and givign them an answer by the pen and then giving 2nd to 3rd thoughts of the consequences about that BUT say screw that lets get a bigger audience and NOT thinking of the consequences of that is strange, dont you think?


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## Hulk

Quick question for all those people who critic their decision of publishing the cartoons have not used derogatory language worse than the cartoons about other religions. I have personally seen many people here who do that. My point is that one way of asking the same is being good yourself and then ask others to be good to you. I however find most such people insulting others day in day out and want zero tolerance when it comes to them.


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## Dubious

JonAsad said:


> Of course such restraint is expected from us Muslims. We are the flag bearers of tolerent people. *This freedom of expression is becoming a provocation and when they provoke they better not cry when they face a reaction. *The bad thing for them about this game is *they now know pretty well what sort of reactions they gona get and i wish them exactly that*.


That is the truth that people do not wish to hear and I think we should let them live in their denial! You can only educate one who is willing! 

All we can do is just condemn it coz we dont believe in violence and let them invite and fight whoever as long as they dont drag us in! Remember *Its their choice! Lets just accept it!*


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## livingdead

Rasengan said:


> Freedom of expression has its limitation even in the western world, however its application is selective in nature. For example in the UK an individual cannot exercise his right in speaking vulgarly to a Police officer, because he would be arrested on the spot. Article 10 of the European Convention of Human Rights itself recognizes the need for some limitation on free speech. This is applied due to national security, the protection of health or morals and the protection of people's rights and reputation. A person can be sued in court for defamation because there character was assassinated, clearly this shows that speech is limited in the western world. In Austria, if someone denies the holocaust then he would be sent to prison. Children who go to school can be expelled, on the basis of using vulgar language against a teacher or on fellow students, however does that not stop freedom of expression. The western world has a selective syndrome of choosing what exactly is freedom of expression.


the selective criteria is consistent.. it is not different for different people.. for example if you draw vulgar picture of jesus you will unlike to be prosecuted.. however writing defamatory thing about a rich muslim business man can land you in jail if you are not careful.
You might find it illogical(I find it perfectly logical), but you cant say its targetting specific community.
I dont like the holocust denial law though, it shows extreme guilt than anything.


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## ares

Areesh said:


> Chances of someone killing for Mullah Omar in Paris is far less than someone killing for Prophet Mohammad(PBUH). In fact only a hardcore terrorist would kill for Mullah Omar in Paris. That doesn't similarly apply to Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) where even a normal muslim might go towards violence for those bigoted cartoons.
> 
> 
> 
> Where it doesn't target a particular religion as a whole. When you target Prophet Mohammad(SAW) then you target whole of muslims instead of one particular sect or group.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously. Is it really that hard to understand that you are asking such stupid questions here? Indian IQ can't even understand such a simple logic?



SO basically, you argument is, it is just a number game.

If your numbers are small, you can offended, but one better not offend a large group..because some them will resort to terror.

*This is something equal opportunity critics do not believe in..and these acts of terrorism will not deter them..infact they will only grow stronger.





*


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## Dr Gupta

Brahman is beyond time,space and form you can not mock nor can you hurt it for the self is Brahman and ever lasting


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## Dubious

indianrabbit said:


> Quick question for all those people who critic their decision of publishing the cartoons have not used derogatory language worse than the cartoons about other religions. I have personally seen many people here who do that. My point is that* one way of asking the same is being good yourself and then ask others to be good to you. I however find most such people insulting others day in day out and want zero tolerance when it comes to them*.


Good question ...here is 1 for you to ponder....Who was trigger happy + providing weapons to BOTH sides during gulf war? African wars? Korea? Vietnam? Jordan? Egypt? Syria? Iraq? Afghanistan? *Can we apply the same? Or is it only applicable to be thrown at Muslims but not for reflecting?*


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## Dr Gupta

Aum. Lead me from unreal to real;
lead me from darkness to light;
lead me from death to immortality.
Aum... *peace, peace, peace.)*
— _Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 1.3.28


_


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## ares

Akheilos said:


> But you are yet to say Hebdo did wrong but you are quick to defend a random Jewish cartoon?



I am not defending, draw away, it is very well within the limits of your freedom of expression..or have you been attacked by any jewish groups for demonizing them is your cartoons?



> It is way ok to exercise you freedom (as every bloody person tries to say) on where they wanted to ...they said that the pen is REFUTING THE EXTREMIST...So why not draw an extremist? Why offend a larger group? THAT is my question...
> 
> you are afraid of Mullah Omar and offending him But it is fine to offend 1.5- 1.7 billion and claim you are fighting Mullah Omar but not the 1.5- 1.7 billion?
> 
> When you lie you are against extremism and givign them an answer by the pen and then giving 2nd to 3rd thoughts of the consequences about that BUT say screw that lets get a bigger audience and NOT thinking of the consequences of that is strange, dont you think?



Actually we are not afraid of anyone neither Mullah Omar and his band of followers nor 1.7 billion Muslims.
Because we are doing nothing wrong. *Equal opportunity criticism is about criticizing every one equally, no matter, how many or how powerful they are. *


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## Hulk

Akheilos said:


> Good question ...here is 1 for you to ponder....Who was trigger happy + providing weapons to BOTH sides during gulf war? African wars? Korea? Vietnam? Jordan? Egypt? Syria? Iraq? Afghanistan? *Can we apply the same? Or is it only applicable to be thrown at Muslims but not for reflecting?*


Sorry, I do not have understanding of that subject. However, I see people saying here that drawing a carton which might not even be offensive is bad but I have all rights to insult other religions. The problem is Muslims want no rulea on them but want to dictate rules on others all the time. If you want your request to be heard you should be more appecptable to others too.

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## Rasengan

> Exactly. Today we would ignore these cartoons Tomorrow there would be complete movies and even TV shows targeting and mocking our Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). Some people in the west need to control their bigotry for a billion plus humans of this world. We won't change our position on Prophet Mohammad(PBUH). It is simply not possible for us.



The problem in the western world is that secularist have a deep rooted hatred against all religions because they are atheist and the concept of God is alien to them. Christianity has weakened in Europe, because there love for Jesus (PBUH) has decreased over the last three centuries, because they have allowed satires to mock there religious icons. The secularist have the same dream with Islam, where they want Muslims to have no love for the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and don't respect Allah. Even if we take Islam out of the equation and somebody in Asia or in the Middle East insults your mother, then it can lead to conflict because a person who does not protect the honor of his family especially the female relatives of his clan can never be considered a real man with respect. Since the Holy Prophet (PBUH) is above everyone else in our faith, then any offense towards him would definitely under no stances can be accepted by Muslims. If they want to criticize Islam no problem, however it should be within the parameters of an academic debate. The last time a group was demonized in this fashion in Europe led to extermination of 6 million Jews.


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## KingMamba

Areesh said:


> Some bigots free speech is not bigger than a billion plus people's sentiments.



Christian sentiments were also hurt by some cartoons they drew.


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## Always Neutral

The-Authority said:


> These people are no less than the killers. They are also extremist in their heads.



Is your faith so weak? There are some good cartoons on jews and christ and the pope too. Not to forget world leaders? After all Mohamed was a man just like all the others he has made fun off.


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## Dubious

indianrabbit said:


> Sorry, I do not have understanding of that subject. However, I see people saying here that drawing a carton which might not even be offensive is bad but I have all rights to insult other religions. *The problem is Muslims* want no rulea on them but want to dictate rules on others all the time. If you want your request to be heard you should be more appecptable to others too.




The problem is the same an simple OVER GENERALIZATION attitude worse part is Indians use Indian Muslims to generate the stereotype 

What we are saying is simple if Hebdo could do what they like under freedom of speech why are soo many being threatened their chair when they do the same ONLY not against Islam but Jews or even in this case Israel?


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## manojb

Are Muslims ok with artistic , non cartoonist depiction of Muhammed?

As per reza aslan historical y muhammad was depicted in illustrations. Only late 18th century wahabism brought radical extreme narrative. 
Even sufi saint like ghalib mocked muhammad

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## Dubious

ares said:


> I am not defending, draw away, it is very well within the limits of your freedom of expression..or have you been attacked by any jewish groups for demonizing them is your cartoons?


Nope But I have been attacked by Indians who are more Jewish than any Jew I know! 



ares said:


> Actually we are not afraid of anyone neither Mullah Omar and his band of followers nor 1.7 billion Muslims.
> Because we are doing nothing wrong. *Equal opportunity criticism is about criticizing every one equally, no matter, how many or how powerful they are.*


Then why havent "we" seen any cartoons of him as a stand off against extremism?


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## Cheetah786



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## Dubious

manojb said:


> Are Muslims ok with artistic , non cartoonist depiction of Muhammed?


Honestly speaking many would be uneasy but many would only do a march...the very fact that some extremists (esp those who just came from ISIS and were in jail for drugs and just happen to be Muslims) might get high!


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## jbond197

mahesh. said:


> A cartoon can make a Muslim an extermist?? LOl Muslims are weak.


Lol, seriously and they say they have faith in their god!!


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## Dr Gupta

jbond197 said:


> Lol, seriously and they say they have faith in their god!!



World needs peace and love not more hatred, say for example French mocked Hindu faith how we would react? yes we would not take up arms but there would be outrage and a protest.

The Hindu : International : Hindu rights group demands apology from French firm

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## VCheng

manojb said:


> Are Muslims ok with artistic , non cartoonist depiction of Muhammed?
> 
> As per reza aslan historical y muhammad was depicted in illustrations. Only late 18th century wahabism brought radical extreme narrative.
> Even sufi saint like ghalib mocked muhammad



That was then. This is now, and it is a very different mindset.


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## RescueRanger

I welcome the cartoons. I don't know what the prophet Mohammed PBUH looked like, they could be drawing any random Arab person for all I care.

I won't find them offensive because they don't represent Mohammed PBUH because no one knows what he looked like.

You cannot censor the world, if you find something unpleasant or distasteful, you have the choice to not click, look, read etc.

BTW I have read satanic verses, and i find it overrated. End of story!

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## Hulk

Akheilos said:


> The problem is the same an simple OVER GENERALIZATION attitude worse part is Indians use Indian Muslims to generate the stereotype
> 
> What we are saying is simple if Hebdo could do what they like under freedom of speech why are soo many being threatened their chair when they do the same ONLY not against Islam but Jews or even in this case Israel?


What over generalization. You have a full country where others cannot practice their faith. I see two countries as India's neighbor with reducing minority, laws against minority. That's a very big number. Please point me to one country where Muslims treat minorities well? Why there is absolutely no movement by majority Muslims in favor of minorities? I am just pointing out that game has to be fair.


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## Always Neutral

Cheetah786 said:


> View attachment 183509



Both are muslims but I agree one is a terrorist.


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## boomslang

The-Authority said:


> Yea they just like hurting the sentiments of more than a billion 'living' people which is alright.



Put your 'big boy' pants on and quit crying.


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## jbond197

Dr Gupta said:


> World needs peace and love not more hated, say for example French mocked Hindu faith how we would react? yes we would not take up arms but there would be outrage and a protest.
> 
> The Hindu : International : Hindu rights group demands apology from French firm



They regularly do that and btw there is a huge difference between demanding apology and killing. In this thread itself you can see how a Muslim offended by a stupid cartoon is abusing Hinduism. Well tbh I don't care but then I don't give a $hit for their cries too.. They need to be man enough to not cry over cartoons.


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## ares

Akheilos said:


> Nope But I have been attacked by Indians who are more Jewish than any Jew I know!



What?.. did you now? Did these 'Indians' bomb your house, or did they try to gun you down? Were you hurt?


> Then why havent "we" seen any cartoons of him as a stand off against extremism?



What do you want to see, cartoons mocking Taliban,Israel, Jesus, Jews, Hindus or Christians? 
There are many of each..a simple google search will give you many results.


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## Rasengan

> the selective criteria is consistent.. it is not different for different people.. for example if you draw vulgar picture of jesus you will unlike to be prosecuted.. however writing defamatory thing about a rich muslim business man can land you in jail if you are not careful.
> You might find it illogical(I find it perfectly logical), but you cant say its targetting specific community.
> I dont like the holocust denial law though, it shows extreme guilt than anything.



This is your opinion, however if you have studied the political and social transformation of Europe with the last three centuries, then you would notice quite clearly that freedom of expression and even the laws which tend to regulate Europe have been influenced by secularism who simply hate religion as a whole. Secularism is linked to atheism which is governed by a belief system to ridicule and ignore the existence of God. Therefore, in Europe it has become a social norm to mock religious iconic figures so that the religious mindset can be weakened overall. This phenomena has occurred in the western world, however it will never happen in the Muslim world, because the love of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) will always remain in our hearts. 

You still did not answer my question on the idea, how freedom of expression is limited if you utilized vulgar language on a police officer on the streets of London. Furthermore why does the law not protect you, if you wrote defamatory words towards a wealthy businessmen...where did freedom of expression go. Does this mean that a poor man of society can never achieve justice and protection because he does not have the financial income to fight against his attackers? Why are children excluded from school, if they use vulgar abusive language to there teachers or fellow students..don't they have the right to exercise there freedom of expression. Why did America not except the mandate of the Palestinians when Gaza declared Hamas as electoral victors in the election? Why did America not respect the mandate of the people in South America, when they elected specific leaders..was freedom of democracy and expression forgotten?

In America your academic work would not be published or taken seriously, if you wrote something which was anti-Zionists. Norman Finklestein did although his career was nearly destroyed as a result, without the help of Noam Chomsky.

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## Cheetah786

jbond197 said:


> The only wronged people on earth are Muslims!! Poor guys are victims of so many things!!



What ever helps you sleep at night.

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## xyxmt

Kinetic said:


> *Well said Sir!! We should take the religions lightly!!! They are causing a great deal of problems in our life*_*.* _



easier to stop putting your finger in every hole hoping since last one didnt bite, neither would the next.


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## Dubious

indianrabbit said:


> What *over generalization*. You have a full country where *others cannot *practice their faith.


 Yet we have a population of Hindus and Christians...we have churches and temples...if they werent allowed to practice these wont exist AT ALL!

I agree we have mad men in our country but over generalization of this form is what I am talking about!


indianrabbit said:


> I see two countries as India's neighbor with reducing minority, laws against minority.


 Hence proven that Indians equate everything to India...there is a whole world outside India!


indianrabbit said:


> That's a very big number. Please point me to one country *where Muslims treat minorities well*? Why there is absolutely *no movement by majority Muslims in favor of minorities*? I am just pointing out that *game has to be fair*.


 Bahrain, Malaysia (yes we have the everyday dissatisfied Indians like the dissatisfied uneducated Muslims of UK) Kuwait, Qatar, Dubai (Yes we have the common idiots everywhere yet every Indian will always be ready for a job in Dubai!)

No movement? Just coz your media doesnt cover it doesnt mean it doesnt exist! 

Fairness is nowhere! Everywhere Muslims are unhappy coz of alienation (if they were happy then only an idiot would leave their comfort welfare sucking machine and go to die in ISIS)

Likewise, non Muslims are not happy in Muslim majority countries....what fairness are you talking about?


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## xyxmt

ito said:


> I knew this was coming. By killing cartoonists the terrorists cannot cower others into submitting to their views. The world cannot let terrorists win.



you don't know it yet, every change comes after some atrocities...its just too early to tell.


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## Cheetah786

Always Neutral said:


> Both are muslims but I agree one is a terrorist.



So I can assume you are rapist. Cause you are indian or Hindu.


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## jbond197

Cheetah786 said:


> What ever helps you sleep at night.


Dude you got it wrong.. I am perfectly fine you are the people losing sleep over what cartoons charlie will come up with in next edition.


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## Dr Gupta

jbond197 said:


> They regularly do that.. In this thread itself you can see how a Muslim offended by a stupid cartoon is abusing Hinduism. Well tbh I don't care but then I don't give a $hit for their cries too..



I think people need to relax and smoke some nice weed that is just what the Dr ordered


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## Always Neutral

Cheetah786 said:


> So I can assume you are rapist. Cause you are indian or Hindu.



Well take your medication as you are rambling i am an athetist and don't shoot or rape in the name of a man called Mohammed

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## mahesh.

jbond197 said:


> Lol, seriously and they say they have faith in their god!!



And then talks about saving their own God and religion


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## Cheetah786

jbond197 said:


> Dude you got it wrong.. I am perfectly fine you are the people losing sleep over what cartoons charlie will come up with in next edition.



REALLY!!!!! is that why you indians are going full Horney in this thread.


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## Dubious

ares said:


> What?.. did you now? Did these 'Indians' bomb your house, or did they try to gun you down? Were you hurt?


So ONLY if I get bombed it is worth talking about...Wait If I am dead who will talk?



ares said:


> What do you want to see, cartoons mocking Taliban,Israel, Jesus, Jews, Hindus or Christians?
> There are many of each..a simple google search will give you many results.


I dont go around searching for such shit!

ALL I say is if it is fine for cartoons of 1 group it should be fine for another!


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## A.M.

Good. I could care less what they print but they certainly shouldn't change their ways because of the extremists.

What a slap in the face this is going to be. One side, we have lunatics willing to die for their religion. Other side, you have individuals willing to put their lives in danger for freedom of speech.


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## Cheetah786

Always Neutral said:


> Well take your medication as you are rambling i am an athetist and don't shoot or rape in the name of a man called Mohammed



Whats the matter don't like to be generalized, but find it ok to do it to others.


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## Dr Gupta

Where did they get ak47's from is the worrying part?? who sold them?


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## Always Neutral

Cheetah786 said:


> Whats the matter don't like to be generalized, but find it ok to do it to others.



well many athetist can rape just like many muslims can be terrorists


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## Shot-Caller

boomslang said:


> Put your 'big boy' pants on and quit crying.


This attitude of yours will only make things worse.


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## ares

Akheilos said:


> So ONLY if I get bombed it is worth talking about...Wait If I am dead who will talk?




IF you are not being attacked, like these cartoonists have been attacked and killed, then you really should not draw comparisons.


> I dont go around searching for such shit!
> 
> ALL I say is if it is fine for cartoons of 1 group it should be fine for another!



Then don't, but your ignorance should not become an excuse, All groups religious or otherwise are criticized, but they don't resort to terrorism.

It is perfectly fine! and on top of it, no one will kill you if tomorrow you decide satirize jews or Christians or Hindus. Many have and they are perfectly healthy .


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## Shot-Caller

Dr Gupta said:


> World needs peace and love not more hatred, say for example French mocked Hindu faith how we would react? yes we would not take up arms but there would be outrage and a protest.
> 
> The Hindu : International : Hindu rights group demands apology from French firm


You're probably one of the very few non Muslim guys here who gets our point of view as well and knows other religions also have extremists.

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## Chinese-Dragon

hussain0216 said:


> *But Hinduism is unimportant you worship lingams which is the penis of one of your many Gods, what possible insult could anyone throw at you*





hussain0216 said:


> *You worship idols and animals it doesn't matter if things like these are mocked*



The irony is that you have no problem insulting other religions.

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## Cheetah786

Always Neutral said:


> well many athetist can rape just like many muslims can be terrorists



When Muslims kill, the crime become a political cause celebre thats called by the nonsense term “terrorism.” When Christians, like Norway’s Anders Breivik, massacre 77 schoolchildren, it’s just a crime by a madman. Western politicians have cynically used Islamophobia to advanced rightwing political agendas and curtail freedoms. Just like you are using to further your cause of hatred towards Muslims.

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## ares

*Charlie Hebdo's latest edition depict Prophet Muhammad*




Surviving staff from the magazine worked on the new edition from Liberation's offices

*The cover of the latest edition of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo has been published in French media, and depicts the Prophet Muhammad.*

*The cover shows the Prophet holding a sign reading "I am Charlie", below the words "all is forgiven".*

The magazine's lawyer Richard Malka told French radio earlier that it was important to show that staff would "cede nothing" to extremists.

Gunmen attacked the magazine's offices on Wednesday, killing 12 people.

Following the attack, the gunmen were heard shouting that they had "avenged the Prophet Muhammad".

The magazine was firebombed in 2011 after publishing Muhammad cartoons.

A total of 17 people were killed in three days of terror attacks in Paris last week.

'Right to blaspheme'

The slogan "Je suis Charlie" or "I am Charlie" was widely used following Wednesday's attack on the magazine, as people sought to show their support.

*Three million copies of Wednesday's edition are being printed. Normally only 60,000 are available each week.*

Mr Malka told France Info radio: "We will not give in. The spirit of 'I am Charlie' means the right to blaspheme."

Survivors of the massacre have been working on the magazine from the offices of another French title, Liberation.

Five of Charlie Hebdo's top cartoonists were killed in the attack.

The new edition will be created "only by people from Charlie Hebdo", its financial director, Eric Portheault, told AFP news agency.

Contributions from other cartoonists were declined.


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## ito

hussain0216 said:


> You worship idols and animals it doesn't matter if things like these are mocked
> 
> islam is more important and to incite a response from 1.7 billion Muslims creating more chaos in a broken world bis dangerous if not stupid



 Grow up. I can say the same things about your religion, than you get hurt. And I would not like to get you hurt.

My religion is as important to me as Islam is to you.



xyxmt said:


> you don't know it yet, every change comes after some atrocities...its just too early to tell.



I can see that world more polarized. At one end will be Muslims and at other end West. Remember I am saying Muslims and not Muslim countries. Many Muslim countries are hand in glove with west.


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## Hulk

Akheilos said:


> Yet we have a population of Hindus and Christians...we have churches and temples...if they werent allowed to practice these wont exist AT ALL!
> 
> I agree we have mad men in our country but over generalization of this form is what I am talking about!
> Hence proven that Indians equate everything to India...there is a whole world outside India!
> Bahrain, Malaysia (yes we have the everyday dissatisfied Indians like the dissatisfied uneducated Muslims of UK) Kuwait, Qatar, Dubai (Yes we have the common idiots everywhere yet every Indian will always be ready for a job in Dubai!)
> 
> No movement? Just coz your media doesnt cover it doesnt mean it doesnt exist!
> 
> Fairness is nowhere! Everywhere Muslims are unhappy coz of alienation (if they were happy then only an idiot would leave their comfort welfare sucking machine and go to die in ISIS)
> 
> Likewise, non Muslims are not happy in Muslim majority countries....what fairness are you talking about?



I saw one such Hindu in Pakistan Idol. If someone does not know he his Hindu, he will think he is actually Muslim. It was evident that to get social acceptance he should come across as Muslim. That is not the case with Muslims in India.

As far as protest are concern here in India it is so strong that hardliners have a hard time. Our protest is effective, delivers outcome. What's the point of protest which is not effective? Did anyone managed to change anything on ground? In India minorities who are less than 1% can freely practice, live, and celebrate their religion.

Now we have bad guys too, but they are not big enough to subvert the minorities.

That's my point, good and bad are everywhere what matters is if the bad are big enough that you feel total threat or not.


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## Umair Nawaz

Gabriel92 said:


> Charlie Hebdo was criticizing all *extremists* of all religions,and even extremists politics.
> I personally hope that they will continue publishing ! (if they give up,the terrorists will win.)


they are not criticizing extremists but everyone who has a religion. They are the real enemies of all Human Kind not extremist Muslims.


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## Zarvan

DV RULES said:


> There will “obviously” be Muhammad cartoons in the next edition of Charlie Hebdo, the magazine’s lawyer has announced.
> 
> _“We will not give up, otherwise all of this will not have any sense,”_ Charlie Hebdo’s lawyer, Richard Malka, said in an interview to France Info radio. _“The spirit of Charlie is the right to blasphemy,"_ he added.
> 
> One of Charlie Hebdo’s cartoonists, Luz, gave an assurance that those who survived the tragedy were busy working on a new edition.
> 
> _"We are okay, we get by,”_ Luz told another radio channel, France Inter.
> 
> _“Nightmares are fading away and we are preoccupied with making a magazine."_
> 
> _The new edition of Charlie Hebdo is due to be released on Wednesday and the print run will be a million, instead of the usual 60,000.
> 
> "The sign ‘Je suis Charlie’ means you have the right to criticize my religion, because it does not matter,” Malka said. “No one has the right to criticize a Jew because he is a Jew, a Muslim because he is a Muslim, a Christian because he is a Christian. But you can say anything you want, including the worst things, and we do say them about Christianity, Judaism and Islam, because beyond all of the beautiful slogans, that's the reality of Charlie Hebdo."
> 
> The magazine is appealing for donations to help it carry on. “Charlie Hebdo needs you to survive,” its website says.
> 
> And considerable resources have already been collected.
> 
> A million Euros has been donated by the French government to keep the magazine going, Le Figaro reported. 250,000 Euros has been provided by the French Fund for Digital Innovation and another 250,000 Euros are coming from French publishers. The Guardian Media Group has pledged £100,000 (128,000 Euros) in support.
> 
> Charlie Hebdo’s new edition to have Muhammad cartoons — RT News
> 
> _


There stupid moves will only create more bloodshed and do nothing else


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## VCheng

Chinese-Dragon said:


> The irony is that you have no problem insulting other religions.



This particular irony is lost on those whom you call out.


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## Jobless Jack

Areesh said:


> Well they continued with their idiocy. And from destroying their own places 2 out of 1.7 billion killed 10 of them. Things went from bad to worst. From protests in own countries to attack directly in the office in Paris. As I said. You continue with this and it is only a matter of time when something happens like paris attack.
> Muslims are not going to take things casual on issues related to Prophet M





Pride said:


> I have "right to protest" with in my "Limits" which is my freedom of speech. I didn't ask for his address to blow him up.. didn't I?
> 
> Freedom of Speech is both ways, you may protest Charlie's work and can file a lawsuit but what your "Ummah" brothers did is neither a way nor acceptable.



the terrorist acts in paris are completely unacceptable

the works of charlie hebdo are also unacceptable

i just wanted to point out that there is a fine line in the freedom of expression

tak example.

say i have50 million dollars and then i go out on the road and tell everybody who would listen about my 50 millon dollars (freedom of speech / expression ) and then one of them stabs me and takes my money . tell me whose fault is that ? obviously its the fault of the guy who stabbed me but also its also my fault because i was litterally doing the things that would attract all the gangstars and thieves around the town.

is it any use to tell the guy who stabbed me " hey bro, work hard and you will make 50 million dollars as well " ?

no its not.


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## SamantK

This is good to hear.. 

So many terror apologists here hiding behind the garb of insult. 

These people have no shame in claiming thiers as the only God and the only true religion. They insult the rest of 5 billion plus people's belief but hey that's OK. Cause you are not Muslims but Kafirs. 

Oh the irony!


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## Solomon2

The-Authority said:


> I'm no apologist. I condemn Paris killing as much as I condemn Peshawar attack. But i condemn these magazines daring these extremists too because when they go on a killing spree its affects have been and will be felt by Muslims all around the world.


Sounds like an apologist to me. 

I dispute that the effects of the attack will rebound negatively upon ALL Muslims. The hero who saved Jewish customers in the kosher market was Muslim. One of the police killed by the terrorists was Muslim. It strikes me as more likely that there will be a sophisticated response that focuses on Islamism and its tendency to produce murder-minded extremists than anything else.


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## Shot-Caller

Solomon2 said:


> Sounds like an apologist to me.
> 
> I dispute that the effects of the attack will rebound negatively upon ALL Muslims. The hero who saved Jewish customers in the kosher market was Muslim. One of the police killed by the terrorists was Muslim. It strikes me as more likely that there will be a sophisticated response that focuses on Islamism and its tendency to produce murder-minded extremists than anything else.


How many articles have you read about those two? In this incident you've seen two types of Muslims. Now its up to the media either they appreciate those two more or keep bashing the entire community for the act of the extremists. So far, the extremists have been getting a lot of airtime. Even here on PDF some one started a thread about the cop being a Muslim and the comments were hilarious saying his religion does not matter. I hope you'll understand my point.


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

does it even matters no one knows how our prophet looked like they draw an arab guy(not sure even if its an arab guy) and pretend its the prophet
i say let them
our faith shouldnt be affected by this

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## Phoenix89

To all the people who are saying "I am Charlie". Have any one given a thought what that really means!

If I start shouting racist slurs in the middle of the time square because I can express my self, doesn't that makes me an $ss hole? And then a bigger $ss hole comes and shoots me because he is pissed to hear me all that while.

Bottom line here is $ss hole will be $ss holes, irrespective of how big a $ss hole they are.
I am not at all here trying to justify what those tterrorist has done, I from my bottom of my heart condemn that.
But when we say "I am Charlie" that essentially means "I am $ss hole" who is ready to offend some one and will die for that cause just because I have "Freedom of expression".

Pathetic.

My religion "hinduism" teaches me not to hurt any one or anyone sentiments and thats why "I am not Charlie".

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## thesolar65

hussain0216 said:


> But Hinduism is unimportant you worship *lingams* which is the *penis* of one of your many Gods, what possible insult could anyone throw at you



He he he....because of that only we all are here. It is the most powerful thing in the Universe. God take repeated birth as humans and other forms of life only to experience it. We must all worship it and its partner , I mean all religions and Atheists should also...not GOD!!


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## acid rain

The-Authority said:


> How many articles have you read about those two? In this incident you've seen two types of Muslims. Now its up to the media either they appreciate those two more or keep bashing the entire community for the act of the extremists. So far, the extremists have been getting a lot of airtime. Even here on PDF some one started a thread about the cop being a Muslim and the comments were hilarious saying his religion does not matter. I hope you'll understand my point.



Dude, the only two people highlighted in both the attacks were the two muslims killed and the cartoonists, media hasn't highlighted anyone else.


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## timetravel

The extremists have lost.


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## Shot-Caller

acid rain said:


> Dude, the only two people highlighted in both the attacks were the two muslims killed and the cartoonists, media hasn't highlighted anyone else.


Which channels are you watching? I watch cnn and bbc sometimes and all I see is the two brothers and the couple who took hostages.


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## punit

The-Authority said:


> Yea they just like hurting the sentiments of more than a billion 'living' people which is alright.


so ur faith is worth a cartoon !

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## monitor

they are instigating and blaming extremist hypocrisy has to be a limit.


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## DrawingDead

hussain0216 said:


> Pouring fuel on a raging fire,
> 
> They will draw the cartoons, then it will be a count down before they get whacked
> 
> Then it will be crying and holding pencils aloft in the rain like a bunch of morons again
> 
> 
> This is why many didn't give a toss the first bunch of dopes got finished,
> 
> *You cant stick your head in a lions mouth and then flick his testicles with a wet towel and expect nothing to happen*



Let me see if I understand this. The gist of your argument is that Muslims are out of control animals and everyone needs to act as such around them?

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## timetravel

They posted a cartoon of Mohamed.

Who has stopped Muslims from Making cartoons on Jews or anything they want?

The response to catroons should be cartoons.

Don't try to use violence to have your way in every matter. Its called terrorism.


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## sms

Found a post on internet.... You be the Judge!







Also how do we know that is Muhammad Cartoon*.*

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## Shot-Caller

punit said:


> so ur faith is worth a cartoon !


How? Doesn't make sense.


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## monitor

timetravel said:


> They posted a cartoon of Mohamed.
> 
> Who has stopped Muslims from Making cartoons on Jews or anything they want?
> 
> The response to catroons should be cartoons.
> 
> Don't try to use violence to have your way in every matter. Its called terrorism.



we don't bite the dog who bite us .


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## timetravel

monitor said:


> we don't bite the dog who bite us .



So who killed 17 people for the Cartoons? Aliens?

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## OrionHunter

Kinetic said:


> *Well said Sir!! We should take the religions lightly!!! They are causing a great deal of problems in our life*_*.* _


*Personally speaking,* I feel religion is an outdated concept. There has never been more bloodshed spilled on the streets than religion. The moderates had lost out a long time ago and religion has become a profitable enterprise for the well armed extremists and fundamentalists whose sole aim is the lust for power and pelf. These are the people who now rule. The moderates have no chance in hell, being cowed down by these gun toting self styled armies of God.

Religion is way past its use-by date. Probably the 'religion' of the future is Humanism, a rationalist outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. It is a progressive lifestance that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility *to lead meaningful, ethical lives capable of adding to the greater good of humanity as a whole.*

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## monitor

timetravel said:


> So who killed 17 people for the Cartoons? Aliens?


they are terrorist . answering carton with a cartoon of jew/Christian would be unacceptable too as we consider there prophet as prophet too.


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## jaunty

rmi5 said:


> when he had no power, he did nothing. But, once he gained power, he killed every one even remotely disagreeing with him.



Is that true? If that's true then I can see a direct correlation of that with the present day Muslims.

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## timetravel

monitor said:


> they are terrorist . answering carton with a cartoon of jew/Christian would be unacceptable too as we consider there prophet as prophet too.



That's good if you don't belive in killing people. I hope all Muslims think like you.


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## dray

Not Sure said:


> How apparent it is that Muslims worldwide have no problem when freedom of speech is protected for these lunatics...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and they are not just a handful out of a vast majority either.



Taking advantage of the freedom of speech and democracy!

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## timetravel

Saudi cleric issues fatwa on snowmen | World news | The Guardian

Even building SNOWMEN is Unislamic. I am sure building Snowmen will hurt the religious sentiments of the Muslims. 

So next what, the extremists feeling hurt and killing people who build Snowmen in USA, Europe, China, India, TIbet, Russia?

Or the people around the world should stop building snowmen coz some stupid Extremists/Mullahs may not like it?


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## SamantK

monitor said:


> they are terrorist . answering carton with a cartoon of jew/Christian would be unacceptable too as we consider there prophet as prophet too.


 You are such a Hypocrite, so those who are not considered your prophets are game? .. Man is it just you or all Muslims think the same?

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## notsuperstitious

SamantK said:


> You are such a Hypocrite, so those who are not considered your prophets are game? .. Man is it just you or all Muslims think the same?


 
How conveniently he lies about respecting other's prophets when in reality he's only respecting his own beliefs in those prophets.

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## metronome

nice1, hope it has more zing to it than any of their previous work 

nous sommes kuffar


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

This stupid newspaper / magazine is now threading a thin line between hate speech and freedom of speech , their tone is more or less designed to incite more people to hate

And that should be a crime to promote a environment of hate by irresponsible publications

Quite pathetic

Religious icons or entities of any faith should not be disrespected period , freedom does not means you start spewing hate in form of cartoons to incite the other group on purpose


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## Sine Nomine

Kaniska said:


> why the Muslim people are so religious in nature?..Sometimes i even question to myself...For every small thing, you start reciting lot of religious thing..


Original Muslims are not even 10 million all others including me are under umbrella of Islam, but we have all our own version of Islam,not that version that was taught.Originally this killing game started from Pakistan.


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## Gabriel92

Umair Nawaz said:


> they are not criticizing extremists but everyone who has a religion. They are the real enemies of all Human Kind not extremist Muslims.



Have you ever read it ?
Some people are critizing it,but never read it. seriously....
I wonder if you knew that this newspaper existed before.


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## Kinetic

xyxmt said:


> easier to stop putting your finger in every hole hoping since last one didnt bite, neither would the next.


when you know the holes are there and know the menace stays in the holes, someone someday has to put a finger inside the hole to bring that menace out so rest of the world can see its true face and agree that, yes, its a menace and we need to deal with it.


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## Sine Nomine

rmi5 said:


> But, once he gained power, he killed every one even remotely disagreeing with him.


Please gave a proper Example or else shut your bloody mouth, Russians grilled you for decades only you bark here is because Muslims fought soviets and you got free to bark.


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## kollang

As a Muslim, I strongly support this magazine to survive.if this magazine stops publishing, terrorists win and eventually other fools will find it as a good way against anti-Islam magazines and the number of fools will grow as a result.

@Terrorist apologists, you see? This magazine used to published 60,000s per weak and now they will publish a million.how does it sounds?


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## Kinetic

rmi5 said:


> when he had no power, he did nothing. But, once he gained power, he killed every one even remotely disagreeing with him. Muslims exactly do the same thing. They kill every one who raise any voice against them in muslim countries, and become cry babies when westerners have upper hand regarding them.
> I don't even know why Europe let these animals live in europe? they need to expel them to whatever desert/cave they crawled from.



Non sense! Before making such accusations against someone put some sources otherwise its just another rant against Islam. End of Story.

@US_statedept_retired


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## SarthakGanguly

jaunty said:


> Is that true?


It is harsh, but true. You are free to check with any scholar educated on all Islamic history and especially the Sunnah. Even from the Qu'ran you can see the difference of the experiences in Medina, Mecca and then back. Abrogation is what comes hence.


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## SamantK

notsuperstitious said:


> How conveniently he lies about respecting other's prophets when in reality he's only respecting his own beliefs in those prophets.


 Its amazing how these people go ape shit on us about disrespect and all while they show no regard for other faiths.

And they cry discrimination when their lie is exposed .

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## Imran Khan

ahhahahahah now its become fun man

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## SarthakGanguly

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> freedom does not means you start spewing hate in form of cartoons to incite the other group on purpose


Else ...


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## Kinetic

timetravel said:


> Saudi cleric issues fatwa on snowmen | World news | The Guardian
> 
> Even building SNOWMEN is Unislamic. I am sure building Snowmen will hurt the religious sentiments of the Muslims.
> 
> So next what, the extremists feeling hurt and killing people who build Snowmen in USA, Europe, China, India, TIbet, Russia?
> 
> Or the people around the world should stop building snowmen coz some stupid Extremists/Mullahs may not like it?



What against snowmen!!! They dont even have snow in KSA, so why something against it?? lol

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## SarthakGanguly

SamantK said:


> show no regard for other faiths


It is not like that. A true Muslim (strictly according to the Sunnah), if he is peaceful is required to allow you your method of worship but he won't consider it even as a faith, let alone a valid one. It might be offensive to you as a non Muslim, but for him/her it is falsehood and you will go to hell for it.

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## monitor

SamantK said:


> You are such a Hypocrite, so those who are not considered your prophets are game? .. Man is it just you or all Muslims think the same?



where have you find hypocrisy ? where i tell i support mocking other prophet is justified . we should respect other religion and believe. media should have freedom of speech but that freedom doesn't mean you hart others feelings and instigate some one to act irrationally . it is forbidden to draw any picture of prophet mohammad(SM) even it is for good reason. everybody should honor this and muslim too should not draw any picture of others prophet or god.


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## Areesh

ares said:


> SO basically, you argument is, it is just a number game.
> 
> If your numbers are small, you can offended, but one better not offend a large group..because some them will resort to terror.
> 
> *This is something equal opportunity critics do not believe in..and these acts of terrorism will not deter them..infact they will only grow stronger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *




It is basically the fact that neither Mullah Omar nor Baghdadi or Asif Ali Zardari are religious figures and aren't followed spiritually by billions of followers world over. If you can not understand a difference between a militant leader and a Prophet followed by people world over then I just can't help you. It might be the bigotry in your head that is hindering your thought process to understand this simple difference.

By the way if pencil is being used for hate speech then it is better to cut it down into pieces.



KingMamba said:


> Christian sentiments were also hurt by some cartoons they drew.



And they failed to do anything. Doesn't mean Muslims would also follow the same line.


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## SamantK

SarthakGanguly said:


> It is not like that. A true Muslim (strictly according to the Sunnah), if he is peaceful is required to allow you your method of worship but he won't consider it even as a faith, let alone a valid one. It might be offensive to you as a non Muslim, but for him/her it is falsehood and you will go to hell for it.


 I do not care what he thinks of me or my faith, neither do I care for what is written in their Holy books. The examples I see are not in line with what you wrote.

For me these people really need to get things in perspective, I see a person irrespective of his faith as a human first. I will see how their followers behave rather than what they are meant to behave like.


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## Areesh

jbond197 said:


> Lol, seriously and they say they have faith in their god!!



1 Prophet (PBUH) is not a god
2 It is actually the strong faith that leads people towards being sensitive on such issues.


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## RajputWarrior

I've seen some Persian manuscripts that depict images of Muhammad, veiled as well as unveiled. Also riding on a "flying horse" Al Buraq. 

What are the views with this?


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## SarthakGanguly

SamantK said:


> The examples I see are not in line with what you wrote.


I think you missed it in the heat of the moment. Read again what I wrote.  You will know that our POVs resonate.

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## RajputWarrior

Areesh said:


> 1 Prophet (PBUH) is not a god
> 2 It is actually the strong faith that leads people towards being sensitive on such issues.



Actually, if you let something as simplistic as a cartoon get under your skin, obviously you're faith in your religion is very fragile.


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## SarthakGanguly

RajputWarrior said:


> I've seen some Persian manuscripts that depict images of Muhammad, veiled as well as unveiled. Also riding on a "flying horse" Al Buraq.
> 
> What are the views with this?


Persians.


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## SamantK

monitor said:


> where have you find hypocrisy ? where i tell i support mocking other prophet is justified . we should respect other religion and believe. media should have freedom of speech but that freedom doesn't mean you hart others feelings and instigate some one to act irrationally . it is forbidden to draw any picture of prophet mohammad(SM) even it is for good reason. everybody should honor this and muslim too should not draw any picture of others prophet or god.


 

I don't care whether you care for other faiths or not, it was rhetoric to point out your hypocrisy.

I expect muslims to behave like other normal Humans and not take up guns for disrespect (Any disrespect, deal with it), especially if they do want to live in a secular country, if not they have so many choices.



SarthakGanguly said:


> I think you missed it in the heat of the moment. Read again what I wrote.  You will know that our POVs resonate.

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## Areesh

RajputWarrior said:


> Actually, if you let something as simplistic as a cartoon get under your skin, obviously you're faith in your religion is very fragile.



No it isn't. It is actually not letting every tom, dick and harry attacking your religion. It is pretty simple.

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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> No it isn't. It is actually not letting every tom, dick and harry attacking your religion. It is pretty simple.


Aaand you are welcome to the 21st century.

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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> Aaand you are welcome to the 21st century.



Same to you. 21st century also prohibits hate speech.

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## RajputWarrior

Areesh said:


> No it isn't. It is actually not letting every tom, dick and harry attacking your religion. It is pretty simple.



If you think THIS is attacking your religion, I have some bad news for you son.


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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> Same to you. 21st century also prohibits hate speech.


BS. In another thread you state 'openly' that you 'hate India'.  That is ok. I feel proud that living things like you hate us. We must be doing at least some things right.

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## Areesh

RajputWarrior said:


> If you think THIS is attacking your religion, I have some bad news for you son.



No bad news would change our views and our position on hate speech under the veil of freedom of speech.



SarthakGanguly said:


> BS. In another thread you state 'openly' that you 'hate India'.  That is ok. I feel proud that living things like you hate us. We must be doing at least some things right.



Many people hate India. It isn't like I am drawing cartoons in newspapers to mock your gods and your national heroes.Tell me when I draw cartoons attacking your war heroes. 

Your post doesn't even make any sense. Like always.

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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> No bad news would change our views and our position on hate speech under the veil of freedom of speech.


I appreciate this POV actually. I hope the world realizes this and divides the world into two mutually exclusive camps - one with believers and the other with the rest. There should be no movement, exchange communication bw each other.


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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> I appreciate this POV actually. I hope the world realizes this and divides the world into two mutually exclusive camps - one with believers and the other with the rest. There should be no movement, exchange communication bw each other.



If you want to divide world for promotion of bigotry and hate speech then it is your decision. Not ours.

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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> It isn't like I am drawing cartoons in newspapers to mock your gods and your national heroes.


To draw you need talent. But then you can 'Muck Fodi' and celebrate rape threads. Truth is you are one of the reasons Pakistan is in such bad shape and likely to descend further into chaos.



Areesh said:


> If you want to divide world for promotion of bigotry and hate speech then it is your decision. Not ours.


I am not the one inventing Dar ul Harb/Aman etc. Besides, we believe(d) in Vasudeva Kutumbakam(The whole world is a family).  Better to stay separate than mix and create trouble, right?

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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> To draw you need talent. But then you can 'Muck Fodi' and celebrate rape threads. Truth is you are one of the reasons.



I can hire cartoonists. 

And about rape threads. Again acting holier than others bharati? Forgot how Indians start thread after threads about every bad news inside Pakistan.



> Pakistan is in such bad shape and likely to descend further into chaos



Lol here comes the expert on Pakistan's issues. Better go and avenge the death of those 80+ tribals killed by bodos or at least from those maoists who are killing your soldiers every other day. We don't need your "expert" opinion.

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## SamantK

SarthakGanguly said:


> To draw you need talent. But then you can 'Muck Fodi' and celebrate rape threads. Truth is you are one of the reasons Pakistan is in such bad shape and likely to descend further into chaos.


 
Mate, there is no dearth of hypocrisy. The same mouth can spew hatred but wails and abuses when someone else hates them and their belief..

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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> I am not the one inventing Dar ul Harb/Aman etc. Besides, we believe(d) in Vasudeva Kutumbakam(The whole world is a family).  Better to stay separate than mix and create trouble, right?



Your choice. We won't change our position. And that is final.

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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> Forgot how Indians start thread after threads about every bad news inside Pakistan.


Hardly seen them. Most threads on Pakistan are from Pakistanis and from the stateless bot - kahonapyarhai 

You can hire cartoonists. We are no stranger to Hindu/Buddhist/Sikh satire.


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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> Hardly seen them. Most threads on Pakistan are from Pakistanis and from the stateless bot - kahonapyarhai
> 
> You can hire cartoonists. We are no stranger to Hindu/Buddhist/Sikh satire.



If you haven't seen such threads then you must smoking some Afghan weed all the time on this forum.

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## SarthakGanguly

SamantK said:


> Mate, there is no dearth of hypocrisy. The same mouth can spew hatred but wails and abuses when someone else hates them and their belief..


Remember I told you about the peaceful kind? He is peaceful and moderate. He won't kill you but will not mind/rejoice silently if you are killed or meet some other sorry fate. Areesh is slightly more hardline than that, because he does not respect any other faith, but still pretty harmless.

But he will convince himself saying that you indirectly were asking for it.



Areesh said:


> If you haven't seen such threads then you must smoking some Afghan weed all the time on this forum.


All threads on Pakistan that I see NOW are started by Pakistanis. End of Story.

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## RajputWarrior

Areesh said:


> No bad news would change our views and our position on hate speech under the veil of freedom of speech.
> 
> 
> 
> Many people hate India. It isn't like I am drawing cartoons in newspapers to mock your gods and your national heroes.Tell me when I draw cartoons attacking your war heroes.
> 
> Your post doesn't even make any sense. Like always.



If Muhammad needs his followers to avenge him because of a drawing, doesn't seem like he's so great after all


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## Areesh

RajputWarrior said:


> If Muhammad needs his followers to avenge him because of a drawing, doesn't seem like he's so great after all



We don't care about your opinion either.



SarthakGanguly said:


> All threads on Pakistan that I see NOW are started by Pakistanis. End of Story.



Looks to be the same story as your fake reports on occupied Kashmir. Far from reality.

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## SarthakGanguly

RajputWarrior said:


> If Muhammad needs his followers to avenge him because of a drawing, doesn't seem like he's so great after all


He was a great Military commander. Revolutionized warfare.
First inventor of Total War in the area in centuries.


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## Areesh

RajputWarrior said:


> It's not my opinion just an observation. Your lack of faith for Islam is transparent if you let something like a cartoon get to you



We don't care about your observation either.


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## RajputWarrior

Areesh said:


> We don't care about your observation either.



Which is why you're still quoting me, my little emotional child


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## Areesh

RajputWarrior said:


> Which is why you're still quoting me, my little emotional child



Stop f*cking around and believe nobody would even care about your existence.


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## Mujahid Memon

Let there be a war....

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## RajputWarrior

Areesh said:


> Stop f*cking around and believe nobody would even care about your existence.



Son, you seem distraught by some emotional imbalance. My intention was never to make you cry

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## Guynextdoor2

karakoram said:


> If they do so then they should be ready for consequences to dealt with. They cannot do anything in the name of freedom of speech. Next target will be terry jones i believe. :-D :-D that pussy priest :-D



If you retaliate, then be ready for more islamophobia, you can't expect other people not to do some things because it upsets you.


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## mujhaidind

Provoking Muslims is suicidal. They never learn

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## salarsikander

*THE ROVING EYE*
*Who profits from killing Charlie?*
By Pepe Escobar 

Putin did it. Sorry, he didn't. In the end, it was not Russia "aggression" that attacked the heart of Europe. It was a pro-style jihadi commando. _Cui bono? _

Careful planning and preparation; Kalashnikovs; rocket-propelled grenade launcher; balaclavas; sand-colored ammunition vest stuffed with spare magazines; army boots; piece of cake escape in a black Citroen. And the icing on the lethal cake; faultless Paris-based logistical support to pull that off. A former top French military commander, Frederic Gallois, has stressed the perfect application of "urban guerrilla technique" (where are those notorious Western counter-terrorism "experts" when one needs them?) 

They might have spoken perfect French; others said it was broken













French. Anyway, what matters is that they uttered the magic word; "We're al-Qaeda." Better yet; they told a man in the street, "Tell the media that this is al-Qaeda in Yemen", which means, in American terror terminology, al-Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula (AQAP), which had Charlie Hebdo's editor/cartoonist Stephane Charbonnier ("Charb") on a hit list duly promoted by AQAP's glossy magazine Inspire. Accusation: "Insulting the Prophet Mohammed." 

And just to make sure everyone had the perpetrators implanted on their brain, the killers also said, "Allahu Akbar"; "We have killed Charlie Hebdo"; and "We have avenged the Prophet." 

Case closed? Well, it took only a few hours for French police to identify the (usual?) suspects; French-Algerian brothers Said and Cherif Kouachi. The third man - the driver of the black Citroen, 18-year-old Hamyd Mourad - then turned himself in with an ironclad alibi. So the third man remains a cipher. 

They all wore balaclavas. The Kouachi brothers have not been captured. But the police seem to know very well who they are. Because they found an abandoned ID in the black Citroen (oh, the troubles of being a command in a rush ...) How come they didn't know anything before the carnage? 

Right on cue, Cherif Kouachi's bio was splattered all over. He was on a global watch list. Along with six others, he was sentenced in May 2008 to 3 years in prison for "terrorism"; in fact unloading a dozen young Frenchmen via madrassas in Egypt and Syria to none other than Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the killed-by-an-American-missile former head of Al-Qaeda in Iraq and the spiritual father of Daesh/ISIS/ISIL. 

Also right on clue, a full narrative was ready for mass consumption. The key point; French police privileges the hypothesis of "Islamic terrorism". According to their "experts", this could be an attack "ordered from abroad and executed by jihadis coming back from Syria that have escaped us", or it could be "suburban idiots that radicalized themselves and concocted this military attack in the name of al-Qaeda." 

Scrap option two, please; this was a pro job. And staying with option one, this points right at - what else - blowback. Yes, they could be Daesh/ISIS/ISIL mercenaries trained by NATO (crucially, France included) in Turkey and/or Jordan. But it might get even false-flag nastier. They could also be former or current French special forces. 

*Blast Islam, will travel *
Predictably, Islamofascism peddlers are already having a field day/week/month/year. For simpletons/trolls/hordes exhibiting an IQ worthy of sub-zoology, when in doubt, demonize Islam. It's so convenient to forget that untold millions from Pakistan's tribal areas to street markets across Iraq continue to feel pain devastating their hearts and lives as they are expendable victims of the jihadi mindset - or "Kalashnikov culture", as it is known in Pakistan - profiting the "West", directly or indirectly, for decades now. Think ritual droning of Pakistani, Yemeni, Syrian, Iraqi or Libyan civilians. Think Sadr City witnessing carnages over 10 times worse than Paris. 

What French President Francois Hollande defined as "an act of exceptional barbarism" - and it is - does not apply when the "West", France in the front line, from King Sarko to General Hollande himself, weaponizes, trains and remote-controls assorted mercenaries/beheaders from Libya to Syria. Oh yeah; killing civilians in Tripoli or Aleppo is perfectly all right. But don't do that in Paris. 

So this, in the heart of Europe, is what blowback feels like. This is what people feel in the Waziristans when a wedding party is incinerated by a Hellfire missile. In parallel, it's absolutely impossible that the oh so sophisticated Western intel network had not seen blowback coming - and was impotent to prevent it (how come the scapegoats du jour, the Kouachi brothers, were not in the gallows?) 

Of course the ultra-elaborate Western counter-terrorism expert network - so proficient at strip-teasing us all at every airport - saw it coming; but in shadow warland, portmanteau "al-Qaeda" and its myriad declinations, including "renegade" Daesh/ISIS/ISIL, are used as much as a mercenary army as a convenient domestic threat "against our freedoms". 

*Who profits? *
US Think Tankland, also predictably, is busy spinning the drama of an "intra-Muslim" split which provides jihadis a lot of geopolitical space to exploit - all this sucking the Western world into a Muslim civil war. This is absolutely ridiculous. The Empire of Chaos, already during the 70s, was busy cultivating jihadi/Kalashnikov culture to fight anything from the USSR to nationalist movements all across the Global South. Divide and Rule has always been used to fan the flames "intra-Islam", from the Clinton administration getting cozy with the Taliban to the Cheney regime - helped by Persian Gulf vassals - advancing the sectarian Sunni/Shi'ite schism. 

_Cui bono_, then, with killing Charlie? Only those whose agenda is to demonize Islam. Not even a bunch of brainwashed fanatics would pull off the Charlie carnage to show people who accuse them of being barbarians that they are, in fact, barbarians. French intel at least has concluded that this is no underwear bomber stunt. This is a pro job. That happens to take place just a few days after France recognizes Palestinian statehood. And just a few days after General Hollande demanded the lifting of sanctions against the Russian "threat". 

The Masters of the Universe who pull the real levers of the Empire of Chaos are freaking out with the systemic chaos in the racket they so far had the illusion of controlling. Make no mistake - the Empire of Chaos will do what it can to exploit the post-Charlie environment - be it blowback or false flag. 

The Obama administration is already mobilizing the UN Security Council. The FBI is "helping" with the French investigation. And as an Italian analyst memorably put it, jihadis don't attack a vulture hedge fund; they attack a satirical rag. This is not religion; this is hardcore geopolitics. Reminds me of David Bowie: "This is not rock'n roll. This is suicide." 

The Obama administration is already mobilized to offer "protection" - Mob-style - to a Western Europe that is just, only just, starting to be diffident of the pre-fabricated Russian "threat". And just as it happens, when the Empire of Chaos mostly needs it, evil "terra" once again rears its ugly head. 

And yes, I am Charlie. Not only because they made us laugh; but because they were sacrificial lambs in a much nastier, gruesome, never-ending shadowplay. 

_*Pepe Escobar*'s latest book is _Empire of Chaos_. Follow him onFacebook. He may be reached at pepeasia@yahoo.com._

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## SamantK

mujhaidind said:


> Provoking Muslims is suicidal. They never learn


 And see what mess they are in

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## PlanetWarrior

hussain0216 said:


> But Hinduism is unimportant you worship lingams which is the penis of one of your many Gods, what possible insult could anyone throw at you



And you get offended when people draw cartoons of your prophet? That is tantamount to saying that you worship a schitzo and you get offended when people draw cartoons of him

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## salarsikander

*Chechen leader blasts Europe over double standards on terrorism*
Published time: January 12, 2015 10:14 
Edited time: January 12, 2015 19:13

he unprecedented public response to the Charlie Hebdo shootings in France could be organized by those who want to stir anti-Islamic sentiment and distract people from other problems, claims the leader of Chechnya Ramzan Kadyrov.

The head of the Chechen Republic explained his position through his longtime medium of choice – the Instagram photo sharing service. In an extensive post accompanying a picture of himself Kadyrov said that he welcomed the “_single-hearted_” denouncing of terrorism by world leaders as well as the millions of people taking part in demonstrations in Paris. He also condemned the killing of unarmed people by terrorists and considered the fight against terrorism the most important task in his life.


At the same time Kadyrov posed a question. Was the denouncing aimed at terrorism only in France or were the public figures and people targeting the evil all over the World?

“_Why the presidents, kings and prime ministers have never led marches of protest against the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Afghans, Syrians, Egyptians, Libyans, Yemenis, and Iraqis? Why did they remain silent when terrorists exploded a bomb in the Chechen government HQ or when they blew up the Grozny stadium killing Chechen President Akhmad-Haji Kadyrov [Ramzan Kadyrov’s father] and his aides? Why did they not react to the raid on the school in Beslan and the hostage taking at Moscow’s Dubrovka Theater? Why keep silent when in December last year terrorists captured the House of Press and a school in Grozny, killing and injuring over 50 people?_” Kadyrov writes in his latest address.

“_It is impossible to secure Paris, London, Madrid and other European capitals if the whole society fails to condemn those who raise and sponsor terrorists all over the world masking it as support for opposition movements_,” Kadyrov stated.

The Chechen strongman wrote that he suspected some powerful forces of preparing the whole scenario in order to incite an anti-Islamic mood in Europe or to distract public attention from some brewing global problem.

A fervent believer in Islam, Kadyrov also wrote that he and his allies would not allow anyone to insult the Prophet, even if this would cost them their lives. “_If we are still silent this does not mean that we cannot get millions of people onto the streets all over the world protesting against those who connive at the insults to Muslims’ religious feelings. Is this what you want?_” he stated, apparently addressing the political leaders of the Western world.

The head of the Chechen republic also suggested the mass media had “_allowed themselves to get involved in the scandal_,” and should apologize to Muslims to end the controversy. “_Peace and stability are more important for all peoples than the right of a handful of journalists to disrespect the Prophet_,” he wrote.

Chechen leader blasts Europe over double standards on terrorism — RT Russian politics


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## Gibbs

Gabriel92 said:


> Charlie Hebdo was criticizing all extremists of all religions,and even extremists politics.
> I personally hope that they will continue publishing ! (if they give up,the terrorists will win.)

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## Xn Jin

Death to Dogs let them bark if they gets same reply then i bet more then a decade no body will bark


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## 13 kumaon

Muslims do not understand that drawing cartoon was not disastrous then the devastation that France will cause now.

unfortunate but true

More airstrikes more innocent Muslims die.

More hatred against Muslims 


so RIP in advance.

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## Umair Nawaz

Gabriel92 said:


> Have you ever read it ?
> Some people are critizing it,but never read it. seriously....
> I wonder if you knew that this newspaper existed before.


LOL and why should i read it or did i ever asked u to have studied islam yrself in the first place before making yr opinions or atleast this news paper has taken the trouble to ever read it without their gov funded BS?

Answer is a bloody NO. So dont ask silly questions to me.


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## prashantazazel

This cartoon controversy has helped the non muslim world identify the radicals, in my opinion.
anyone who violently opposes another point of view is basically a terrorist or a sympathizer.... In future I can use this test to identify and stay away from radical guys around me....
girls never create such trouble anyways....


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## Selous

rmi5 said:


> when he had no power, he did nothing. But, once he gained power, he killed every one even remotely disagreeing with him. Muslims exactly do the same thing. They kill every one who raise any voice against them in muslim countries, and become cry babies when westerners have upper hand regarding them.
> I don't even know why Europe let these animals live in europe? they need to expel them to whatever desert/cave they crawled from.


Nonsense. The Prophet (SAW) had the most power when he conquered Makkah...when he entered the city he did so with humility and forgave all those who had offended him, launched wars against him (especially Abu Sufyan's family) and killed his family and friends. He even forgave those who spread slander about his wife Aisha (RA). The only people he had killed were those who were inciting treason or those who committed treason. (eg. Masjid al Dhirar incident and the Jews of Banu Qurayza) Get your facts from reliable sources please.

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## 13 kumaon

prashantazazel said:


> This cartoon controversy has helped the non muslim world identify the radicals, in my opinion.
> anyone who violently opposes another point of view is basically a terrorist or a sympathizer.... In future I can use this test to identify and stay away from radical guys around me....
> girls never create such trouble anyways....


one of the four jihadi was a girl.


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## Areesh

RajputWarrior said:


> Son, you seem distraught by some emotional imbalance. My intention was never to make you cry



So you think we should ignore your disgusting existence while you f*ck around on this world. OK. We would o that from now.


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## RajputWarrior

Areesh said:


> So you think we should ignore your disgusting existence while you f*ck around on this world. OK. We would o that from now.



I've done plenty of fcking around don't worry, son

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## prashantazazel

13 kumaon said:


> one of the four jihadi was a girl.


I know, but it is very rare....



Selous said:


> Nonsense. The Prophet (SAW) had the most power when he conquered Makkah...when he entered the city he did so with humility and forgave all those who had offended him, launched wars against him (especially Abu Sufyan's family) and killed his family and friends. He even forgave those who spread slander about his wife Aisha (RA). The only people he had killed were those who were inciting treason or those who committed treason. (eg. Masjid al Dhirar incident and the Jews of Banu Qurayza) Get your facts from reliable sources please.


what's your opinion about sunan Abu Dawud book 34 #4348?


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## 13 kumaon

Terrorism can not stop free thinking of 6 billion people they newer was they never will
since the time of female poet......

Asma bint marwan (624 A.D) assassinated

Salman Rushdie 

Taslima nasreen

Charlie hebdo


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## Rasengan

> Well take your medication as you are rambling i am an athetist and don't shoot or rape in the name of a man called Mohammed



Please go and check inside a hospital to see if you have Dissociative disorder because clearly your awareness and memory of history has become pathetic. Yes you are an atheist follower , which created the ideology of communism that predominately allowed Stalin to murder millions across the Soviet Union. Lets not forget about Maoism, which was responsible for starting a genocide on all religious groups across China. Not to mention in Cambodia, half the population was massacred and raped by an atheist ideology....so get off your high horses


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## Gabriel92

Umair Nawaz said:


> LOL and why should i read it or did i ever asked u to have studied islam yrself in the first place before making yr opinions or atleast this news paper has taken the trouble to ever read it without their gov funded BS?
> 
> Answer is a bloody NO. So dont ask silly questions to me.



Because people are judging it over just some caricatures.


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## Umair Nawaz

Gabriel92 said:


> Because people are judging it over just some caricatures.


So people have been judging islam since a long time over.


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## Rasengan

> Because people are judging it over just some caricatures.



In France the Gayssot Act, designates the conjecture that it is considered an offence to question the existence of the Holocaust and is therefore prohibited. Such double standards and hypocrisy, because freedom of expression has become selective in nature which typically suit the needs and requirements of secularists supporters.


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## prashantazazel

Rasengan said:


> Please go and check inside a hospital to see if you have Dissociative disorder because clearly your awareness and memory of history has become pathetic. Yes you are an atheist follower , which created the ideology of communism that predominately allowed Stalin to murder millions across the Soviet Union. Lets not forget about Maoism, which was responsible for starting a genocide on all religious groups across China. Not to mention in Cambodia, half the population was massacred and raped by an atheist ideology....so get off your high horses


atheism and communism are different things.
what you said sounds like - " Hindu and muslims both worship a god/ gods- so they are following the same religion".


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## xyxmt

Kinetic said:


> when you know the holes are there and know the menace stays in the holes, someone someday has to put a finger inside the hole to bring that menace out so rest of the world can see its true face and agree that, yes, its a menace and we need to deal with it.



One thing that history teaches you is that they are not the ones who are going to take it laying down, unlike Hindus...so keep it up


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## Rasengan

> atheism and communism are different things.
> what you said sounds like - " Hindu and muslims both worship a god/ gods- so they are following the same religion".



Please read more history, because communism and atheism have a correlation of both not believing in the idea of God. Actually both Lenin and Karl Marx's regarded them selves as atheists, rather than the adherence of the Jewish faith and this philosophy was used in the Soviet Union to prosecute all other religious faiths.


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## Kaniska

قناص said:


> Original Muslims are not even 10 million all others including me are under umbrella of Islam, but we have all our own version of Islam,not that version that was taught.Originally this killing game started from Pakistan.



See...honestly, i also agree that freedom of speech should have limit..But that does not mean you will go out and start killing...This mindset has to change...


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## StormShadow

Hyperion said:


> The right path is pretty well defined for followers of Islam (rest have their own faiths). *Follow the Quran. Quran only. Nothing but the Quran.*


Isnt that what those paris attackers followed?


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## trident2010

ares said:


>



This is hilarious !!


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## wadi79

This thread is amazing - a number of Pakistanis go on insulting India/Hinduism in the most blatant manner, and yet it hurts them when their own faith is insulted. And they are surprised when they find others don't respect their faith in return. I guess 'do unto others' or 'charity begins at home' are meaningless phrases to them. 

I don't think my faith or my country are small enough to be insulted by some petty lowlife, and I refuse to insult Islam/Pakistan just because these lowlifes happened to be born in a Muslim household in Pakistan. To my mind, the polio workers routinely killed by terrorists and murdered school children of Peshawar were also Pakistani, and I would rather not tar them with the same brush as these idiots. In any case, these jokers need no outside punishment - human or divine. A life full of hatred is punishment enough, and may you live a long life.

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## Rasengan

> Next time there's an attack in Pakistan, I'll take a look at this thread before sayinf "R.I.P



Pakistan does not require your written inscription of RIP, because its meaningless and has no real effect on the families which have suffered in terrorists attacks. Why don't you concern your self with Sri-Lanka and mind your business on the internal problems of Pakistan.


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## asad71

Paris’s Muslim Suburbs Blame Jews for Charlie - The Daily Beast






Jean-Phillippe Ksiazek/AFP/Getty




Dana Kennedy

tweet
post
*ANOTHER WORLD*
01.13.15
*Paris’s Muslim Suburbs Blame Jews for Charlie*
In France, the projects don’t look like ghettoes, but they’re filled with a poisonous mix of conspiracy theories and a some support for murderous jihadis

========

This is an exercise by WCC to ethnically cleanse Europe of Muslims.


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## Rasengan

> This thread is amazing - a number of Pakistanis go on insulting India/Hinduism in the most blatant manner, and yet it hurts them when their own faith is insulted. And they are surprised when they find others don't respect their faith in return. I guess 'do unto others' or 'charity begins at home' are meaningless phrases to them.



Insulting any particular religion in this forum would get an individual banned by the moderators. Therefore, your analogy is flawed and holds no weight.


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## wadi79

Rasengan said:


> Insulting any particular religion in this forum would get an individual banned by the moderators. Therefore, your analogy is flawed and holds no weight.



Read back through some of these pages and see the rants against Hinduism - then comment and talk about 'weight'.


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## Menace2Society



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## Rasengan

> Read back through some of these pages and see the rants against Hinduism - then comment and talk about 'weight'.



Why don't we put your statement to the test. The moderators control the contents of this forum and what exactly can written by members. Therefore, why don't we ask them, whether insulting a particular religion would lead to exclusion of members from this forum.

First purchase some glasses from specsavers and then read the rules and regulations of this forum. This is highlighted quite clearly, when you actually signed up as a member of this forum.


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## Menace2Society



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## Azizam

Rasengan said:


> Insulting any particular religion in this forum would get an individual banned by the moderators. Therefore, your analogy is flawed and holds no weight.


Post #57



> But Hinduism is unimportant you worship lingams which is the penis of one of your many Gods, what possible insult could anyone throw at you

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## notsuperstitious

Terrorism and caricatures is not a chicken and egg debate. The terrorism came first, the caricatures followed.




Azizam said:


> Post #57


 
LOL why would mods ban anyone for insulting Hindusim??? See post 7 in the below thread. Islamic idea of all rights including respect and freedom of speech is a one way street.

Growing Hindu extremism in india



Rasengan said:


> Insulting any particular religion in this forum would get an individual banned by the moderators. Therefore, your analogy is flawed and holds no weight.


 


Rasengan said:


> Do you have arthritis on your hands, because if this post is offensive to Hinduism then you can report his message to the moderators of this forum. The report button is there for a reason.


 
And what if the admin sees my report? Do you want to get me banned again you cunning man?

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## wadi79

Azizam said:


> Post #57



I think its pointless reasoning with that bigot. Going by comments on this forum, he isn't the only one. I think they bring great credit to their family, society and culture by their actions.

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## Menace2Society

notsuperstitious said:


> Terrorism and caricatures is not a chicken and egg debate. The terrorism came first, the caricatures followed.



Religious terrorism existed far before Islam existed. I am not sure how many millions upon millions the Romans slaughtered for their Gods.

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## aks18

too all the indians supporting this shit i just want a answer if freedom of speech is to hurt the sentiments of people then why there are violence over a single movie of amir khan PK which criticized almost all major religions what burnt hinduz in secular india ??

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## Rasengan

> Post #57



Do you have arthritis on your hands, because if this post is offensive to Hinduism then you can report his message to the moderators of this forum. The report button is there for a reason.


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## jaunty

aks18 said:


> too all the indians supporting this shit i just want a answer if freedom of speech is to hurt the sentiments of people then why there are violence over a single movie of amir khan PK which criticized almost all major religions what burnt hinduz in secular india ??



Do you know that it is the highest grossing movie in the history of bollywood? Who do you think watched it? Aliens?  Criticism is a part of free speech. Some people criticized it as they have the right to do so, but nobody tried to kill anyone. A few approached the court and the court rejected their objection. There were a few incidents of vandalism but in a country with several thousands movie theaters, 5-6 incidents are negligible. If anything, PK showed how tolerant the Indian society is. If a similar movie was made in an Islamic country, many would have died so far.

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## Azizam

wadi79 said:


> I think its pointless reasoning with that bigot. Going by comments on this forum, he isn't the only one. I think they bring great credit to their family, society and culture by their actions.


Of course there's no point. They harbour extremist ideology, after few weeks we see an attack against them by the same kind of individuals they support then they blame RAW/CIA/MOSSAD/Europe/Saudi Arabia/Mars/Venus/Reptilians. And the cycle continues.


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## aks18

jaunty said:


> Do you know that it is the *highest grossing movie* in the history of bollywood? Who do you think watched it? Aliens?  Criticism is a part of free speech. Some people criticized it as they have the right to do so, but nobody tried to kill anyone. A few approached the court and the court rejected their objection. There were a few incidents of vandalism but in a country with several thousands movie theaters, 5-6 incidents are negligible. If anything, PK showed how tolerant the Indian society is. If a similar movie was made in an Islamic country, many would have died so far.




Did i asked you about the business of the movie i see alot of criticism and violence and hate speech against muslims over this movie even people of india said ISI funded this movie lol ... come to the question why the hell hinduz are protesting against the movie ??


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## Rasengan

> I think its pointless reasoning with that bigot. Going by comments on this forum, he isn't the only one. I think they bring great credit to their family, society and culture by their actions.



Why exactly are you backtracking from your BS statement? Now grow a backbone and call a moderator to verify, whether insulting someone religion on this forum will lead to exclusions and warnings.


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## jaunty

aks18 said:


> Did i asked you about the business of the movie i see alot of criticism and violence and hate speech against muslims over this movie even people of india said ISI funded this movie lol ... come to the question why the hell hinduz are protesting against the movie ??



Did you read the whole post? If you did you would not be asking that question.


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## Azizam

Rasengan said:


> Do you have arthritis on your hands, because if this post is offensive to Hinduism then you can report his message to the moderators of this forum. The report button is there for a reason.


I never cry about insults or criticism. It's you who do that and as you may have noticed, there is an comment by a moderator right below one of the offensive comments so I can't say that moderators don't notice those posts without them being reported.

Was just pointing out the hypocrisy. It's not just me, members from all over the who read this thread notice and understand it which means more isolation for the likes of you.

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## wadi79

Azizam said:


> Of course there's no point. They harbour extremist ideology, after few weeks we see an attack against them by the same kind of individuals they support then they blame RAW/CIA/MOSSAD/Europe/Saudi Arabia/Mars/Venus/Reptilians. And the cycle continues.



Reminds me of an old saying - Arguing with a bigot is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you find that while you are just getting dirty and angry, the pig is actually enjoying it.

*PS:* Looks like the little piggy is getting hot under the collar.

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## Dubious

indianrabbit said:


> I saw *one *such Hindu in Pakistan Idol.* If someone does not know he his Hindu, he will think he is actually Muslim.* It was *evident *that to *get social acceptance he should come across as Muslim*. That is not the case with Muslims in India.


1) only 1? Maybe you should watch that stupid show more often...I stopped when they kicked out soo many potential idols!  Yup thats the show to cherry pick your desires´worth!
2) So how did you know when he had to pretend to be Muslim?

Since you picked up 1 guy...let me show you another whom people wouldnt mistakenly take for Muslim:

*Deepak Perwani* (born 1973) (Sindhi: ديپڪ پرواني) is a well known Pakistani fashion designer and actor. He is one of the prominent members of the Hindu Sindhi community in Pakistan. He has a brother, Naveen Perwani who is a snooker player.*Deepak Perwani* (born 1973) (Sindhi: ديپڪ پرواني) is a well known Pakistani fashion designer and actor. He is one of the prominent members of the Hindu Sindhi community in Pakistan. He has a brother, Naveen Perwani who is a snooker player.

The designer has recently created the world's largest kurta. The kurta, large enough to be worn by a 175-foot-tall (53 m) person, was unveiled at a public ceremony.The _Guinness World Records_ later certified the entry based on a rigorous documentation process. The kurta weighs 800 kg, is 101 feet tall and 59 feet 3 inches wide. Each sleeve is almost 57 feet long. It took a team of 50 hardworking professional tailors a period of 30 days to make the kurta. The huge kurta is made of 800 yards of cotton blend fabric. According to Perwani, "the kurta is an intrinsic symbol of Pakistani attire, and (this garment) has successfully put it on the global map. A kurta represents the essence of what we are and defines our individuality in today's world." The world's largest designer kurta will later be used to create smaller kurtas that will be donated to children's homes run by the Edhi Foundation, a Pakistani NGO.The fashion designer Deepak Perwani is running his own boutique in Pakistan.* His sign represents Power and Men’s confidence which is the most claimed statement in Men’s Designing of Deepak Perwani. The signature “Deepak Perwani” has been set himself by the fashion designer Deepak Perwani.The fashion designer Deepak Perwani not only participated in shows nationwide but also participated in the international fashion shows and showed his designs. Deepak Perwani is also the winner of the Lux and Indus Style Awards.*

Just for laughs I will give you another one who isnt shy about his religion: *Rana Bhagwandas* (born 20 December 1942), was a senior judge and former acting chief justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan (CJP)



indianrabbit said:


> As far as protest are concern here in India it is so strong that hardliners have a hard time. *Our protest is effective, delivers outcome. *What's the point of protest which is not effective? Did anyone managed to change anything on ground? In India minorities who are less than 1% can freely practice, live, and celebrate their religion.


Whatever rows your boat!



indianrabbit said:


> Now we have bad guys too, but they are not big enough to subvert the minorities.
> 
> That's my point, good and bad are everywhere what matters is *if the bad are big enough* that you feel total threat or not.


What actually matters is how much time media gives the good time while the bad news is a guaranteed sale...


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## aks18

jaunty said:


> Did you read the whole post? If you did you would not be asking that question.



i didnt got my answer i know how much tolerate your india is can i sacrifice a COW in india being a muslim ??  surely your mahaan baharat hinduz will cut my throat we have seen many examples in past , you want me to remind riots against muslims sikhs and chrtistians ? if your extremists doesnt represent whole india and hinduism then similarly few extremist doesnt represent entire Islam


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## Dubious

ares said:


> IF you are not being attacked, like these cartoonists have been attacked and killed, then you really should not draw comparisons.


 THAT is the lamest thing I have ever heard! Not until you are about to die, please keep to yourselves! Well Israelis havent died so they shouldnt utter a single sound!



ares said:


> Then don't, but your ignorance should not become an excuse, All groups religious or otherwise are criticized, but they don't resort to terrorism.
> 
> It is perfectly fine! and on top of it, no one will kill you if tomorrow you decide satirize jews or Christians or Hindus. Many have and they are perfectly healthy .





ares said:


> Then don't, but your ignorance should not become an excuse, All groups religious or otherwise are criticized, but they don't resort to terrorism.


 How often  

There is criticizing which means you have read the text than there is ignorant people PROVOKING...when you know the difference then only quote me otherwise- Adios!


ares said:


> It is perfectly fine! and on top of it, *no one will kill you if tomorrow you decide satirize jews or Christians or Hindus.* Many have and they are perfectly healthy .


Nahh they will just cut my bread and butter and cry to the 1st newspaper they can get a hold of!


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## Rasengan

> Reminds me of an old saying - Arguing with a bigot is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After some time, you find that while you are just getting dirty and angry, the pig is actually enjoying it.



There is also an old Chinese saying "people with no brain have no cure". Not once have you refuted my post with facts or arguments, is this because the Indian education system does not make you think outside the box and that your mind is too mechanized to be robotic. Give me the definition of a bigot?

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## Dubious

SamantK said:


> This is good to hear..
> 
> So many terror *apologists *here hiding behind the garb of insult.



a person who *offers an argument* in defence of something controversial.

*I dont see the word defend that many of you have made up...Oh yea intolerance to different POV makes you do that! *


SamantK said:


> These people have no shame in claiming thiers as the *only God and the only true religion*.



Judaism says the same...you can google even gentile!



SamantK said:


> They *insult the rest of 5 billion* plus people's belief but hey that's OK. Cause *you are not Muslims but Kafirs. *
> 
> Oh the irony!


Nahh you are just a gentile!


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## ozzy22

Azizam said:


> I never cry about insults or criticism. It's you who do that and as you may have noticed, there is an comment by a moderator right below one of the offensive comments so I can't say that moderators don't notice those posts without them being reported.
> 
> Was just pointing out the hypocrisy. It's not just me, members from all over the who read this thread notice and understand it which means more isolation for the likes of you.


Are you saying this forum is biased against non Muslims? If so that is a bunch of BS. I have seen insults to Islam plenty of times on this forum. This week alone I saw at least a handful. It seems like your only seeing insults when it offends you

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## aks18

Very Different Take from China
Xinhua: Charlie Hebdo Attack Shows Need for Press Limits


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## Menace2Society

Why don't a group of Muslim cartoonists get together and create some very offensive stuff on France and French people.

Leave religion alone, all monotheistic religions should be respected. Polytheism does not count, its not a religion.

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## Rasengan

> *PS:* Looks like the little piggy is getting hot under the collar.



What was the protracted time in which your inert mind came up with this insult? Chai wala boy your comments have no real effect on me and your attempt to anger me is laughable. Trying to bring your school yard tactics will simply embarrass you in the long term.

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## Azizam

ozzy22 said:


> Are you saying this forum is biased against non Muslims? If so that is a bunch of BS. I have seen insults to Islam plenty of times on this forum. This week alone I saw at least a handful. It seems like your only seeing insults when it offends you


How can it offend me when I am not Hindu? There's no way you say something similar to a Muslim and get away with it without being banned.


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## Dubious

Menace2Society said:


> Why don't a group of Muslim cartoonists get together and create some very offensive stuff on France and French people.
> 
> Leave religion alone, all monotheistic religions should be respected. Polytheism does not count, its not a religion.


More like why do people feel the DYING urge to do such shit? So much free time go volunteer for a charity event!


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## K-Xeroid

I think Charlie hebdo cartoonists love hell . more of them are preparing for hell journey. Amazing

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## VCheng

SamantK said:


> This is good to hear..
> 
> So many terror apologists here hiding behind the garb of insult.
> 
> These people have no shame in claiming thiers as the only God and the only true religion. They insult the rest of 5 billion plus people's belief but hey that's OK. Cause you are not Muslims but Kafirs.
> 
> Oh the irony!



This irony is lost on not just the apologists, but also on those higher up the chain who actively encourage such views because it helps with their own agenda. This apologist rot runs deep and wide.

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## Rasengan

> How can it offend me when I am not Hindu? There's no way you say something similar to a Muslim and get away with it without being banned.



As the English love to say on a number of different occasions, lets put your argument to the proof of the pudding and call a moderator to decide who is correct.....or have you loss your nerves son...don't be a coward and accept that your ignorant mind made a mistake



> Why don't a group of Muslim cartoonists get together and create some very offensive stuff on France and French people.



In France 1970, Hara-Kiri the predecessor of Charlie Hebdo was banned because it mocked the death of Charles de Gaulle. Freedom of expression is limited in the west, however its selective by nature because secularists want to attack religion without being called bigots.


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## PlanetWarrior

Menace2Society said:


> Why don't a group of Muslim cartoonists get together and create some very offensive stuff on France and French people.
> 
> Leave religion alone, all monotheistic religions should be respected. Polytheism does not count, its not a religion.



And what happens if the Polytheist start drawing mock cartoons of your prophet holding a bomb in his hands and smiling cunningly ? Will that count as being offensive since they don't really matter to your religion ?


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## ozzy22

Azizam said:


> How can it offend me when I am not Hindu? There's no way you say something similar to a Muslim and get away with it without being banned.


Sure. Like I said you only see offence when it offends your sensibilities. Name me another defence forum that is as open and welcoming to everyone as this forum is. It seems like you’re seeing oppression were they aren’t any. Kind of like how you describe Muslims?



Menace2Society said:


> Why don't a group of Muslim cartoonists get together and create some very offensive stuff on France and French people.
> 
> Leave religion alone, all monotheistic religions should be respected. Polytheism does not count, its not a religion.


Best thing to do is just ignore it no matter how offensive it might be. We reacting only makes it worse.

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## Menace2Society

PlanetWarrior said:


> And what happens if the Polytheist start drawing mock cartoons of your prophet holding a bomb in his hands and smiling cunningly ? Will that count as being offensive since they don't really matter to your religion ?



I don't really care personally.


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## -SINAN-

Solomon2 said:


> It is freedom of speech AND it's being rude and insensitive.


Holocaust laws should be removed, for the sake of the "freedom of speech"

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## Koovie

Right into face of all extremists!


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## Mav3rick

DV RULES said:


> There will “obviously” be Muhammad cartoons in the next edition of Charlie Hebdo, the magazine’s lawyer has announced.
> 
> _“We will not give up, otherwise all of this will not have any sense,”_ Charlie Hebdo’s lawyer, Richard Malka, said in an interview to France Info radio. _“The spirit of Charlie is the right to blasphemy,"_ he added.
> 
> One of Charlie Hebdo’s cartoonists, Luz, gave an assurance that those who survived the tragedy were busy working on a new edition.
> 
> _"We are okay, we get by,”_ Luz told another radio channel, France Inter.
> 
> _“Nightmares are fading away and we are preoccupied with making a magazine."_
> 
> _The new edition of Charlie Hebdo is due to be released on Wednesday and the print run will be a million, instead of the usual 60,000.
> 
> "The sign ‘Je suis Charlie’ means you have the right to criticize my religion, because it does not matter,” Malka said. “No one has the right to criticize a Jew because he is a Jew, a Muslim because he is a Muslim, a Christian because he is a Christian. But you can say anything you want, including the worst things, and we do say them about Christianity, Judaism and Islam, because beyond all of the beautiful slogans, that's the reality of Charlie Hebdo."
> 
> The magazine is appealing for donations to help it carry on. “Charlie Hebdo needs you to survive,” its website says.
> 
> And considerable resources have already been collected.
> 
> A million Euros has been donated by the French government to keep the magazine going, Le Figaro reported. 250,000 Euros has been provided by the French Fund for Digital Innovation and another 250,000 Euros are coming from French publishers. The Guardian Media Group has pledged £100,000 (128,000 Euros) in support.
> 
> Charlie Hebdo’s new edition to have Muhammad cartoons — RT News
> _



Well.......they will only invite more attacks if they do so and the next attack might be even deadlier.

I just fail to understand what they stand to gain by hurting 1.8 Billion humans, of which a massive majority is non-violent. I mean we all have our tolerance limits, some shorter then others........and hurt can give way to anger, and a desire to take revenge, pretty quickly.


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## Rajaraja Chola

The-Authority said:


> Yea they just like hurting the sentiments of more than a billion 'living' people which is alright.



Who are you to defend Islam or for any other religions God ? Are you his prophet? 
God have the capability of protect himself. We, in his name, should take care of our family and nation, instead of getting "hurt" cos, someone drew a cartoon of his messenger.

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## Shot-Caller

Rajaraja Chola said:


> Who are you to defend Islam or for any other religions God ? Are you his prophet?
> God have the capability of protect himself. We, in his name, should take care of our family and nation, instead of getting "hurt" cos, someone drew a cartoon of his messenger.


Who are you to tell me what to do?

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## PlanetWarrior

Menace2Society said:


> I don't really care personally.



So why do you get offended when some frog draws a cartoon of your prophet then ?


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## Rasengan

> Holocaust laws should be removed, for the sake of the "freedom of speech"


‪
The French comedian Dieudonne M'Bala was convicted and fined for describing the holocaust remembrance as a "memorial pornography". In 2005 the French courts banned a Jesus based clothing advert "as a gratuitous and aggressive act of intrusion on people's innermost beliefs". In 2003 France passed an internal security enactment, which made it an offense to insult the national flag or anthem, with a penalty of 9,000 euros or face jail time. In 2006, French rap star Richard Makela was put on trial for referring France as a "slut" and vowed to "piss" on Napoleon and Charles de Gaulle in his soundtrack.

Moral of the story is that the French and the secularists Europeans are hypocrites and are selective in nature in describing what exactly is freedom of expression. The Gayssot Act in France impeaches anyone who writes against the Holocaust.


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## Menace2Society

PlanetWarrior said:


> So why do you get offended when some frog draws a cartoon of your prophet then ?



Tell me this, how do you know 100% what someones religion is by looking at them? Its not an ethnicity and there are varying degrees. The same is for opinion and what is considered offensive.

Take for example a British television channel, even for the most mundane reasons adverts and shows are pulled because of complaints and this isn't even to do with religion.

But to insult someones source of spirituality just because of a handful of lunatics and then call it freedom of speech is an abuse.

But this is on TV and that was a cartoon. It quite literally is the dumbest thing someone can do to remedy this situation. Killing just tilts the public favor to the opposite. The cartoon should have been challenged in court and by creatives in Muslim community who could counter troll. What adult looks at cartoons? I f**king don't and didn't even know it existed before I turned on the news.

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## PlanetWarrior

Menace2Society said:


> Tell me this, how do you know 100% what someones religion is by looking at them? Its not an ethnicity and there are varying degrees. The same is for opinion and what is considered offensive.
> 
> Take for example a British television channel, even for the most mundane reasons adverts and shows are pulled because of complaints and this isn't even to do with religion.
> 
> But to insult someones source of spirituality just because of a handful of lunatics and then call it freedom of speech is an abuse.
> 
> But this is on TV and that was a cartoon. It quite literally is the dumbest thing someone can do to remedy this situation. Killing just tilts the public favor to the opposite. The cartoon should have been challenged in court and by creatives in Muslim community who could counter troll. What adult looks at cartoons? I f**king don't and didn't even know it existed before I turned on the news.



Why should your religious views and your religion be imposed on others. You deny the validity of the religion of Polytheists? Christians and Jews and off-course Polytheists deny the validity of the religion of Islam. You have the right to mock and discredit other religions. Grant others the same space to mock yours. To a Christian or a Jew or a Polytheist, Muhammad was as much of a Prophet as the guy standing at the corner of some New York street with a board around his neck declaring "the end of the world is near" is. To you, a Polytheist worships God in the same way that an ant or a monkey does. You don't see a billion or so Polytheists picking up guns and bombs to change or challenge your viewpoint? What gives you or any other Muslim the right to demand that those who don't conform with your beliefs respect your beliefs when you are the first to mock others, including theirs ?

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## pak-marine

Go ahead nothing wrong with it us muslims should learn to counter negative criticism .. murder and slaughter is no way .. Whats the deal if they drew cartoons prophet PBUH was one man he spread by character not by sword

@Zarvan i would like to hear your thoughts please ..


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## Gabriel92

In the last 72hours,Charlie Hebdo collected more than €1.000.000 from 14.000 donors !
And these numbers don't take in count the donations on JaideCharlie.fr



> *Près d'un million d'euros de dons collectés au profit de Charlie Hebdo.* C'est la somme récoltée grâce à 14 000 personnes. «C'est ainsi près d'un million d'euros qui ont été collectés au bénéfice de l'hebdomadaire au cours des 72 dernières heures», écrit l'association Presse et Pluralisme, qui rappelle que ce chiffre ne prend en compte que les dons effectués par carte bancaire sur le site JaideCharlie.fr.



EN DIRECT. Valls : «La France n'est pas en guerre contre une religion»

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## Dubious

Gabriel92 said:


> In the last 72hours,Charlie Hebdo collected more than €1.000.000 from 14.000 donors !
> And these numbers don't take in count the donations on JaideCharlie.fr
> 
> 
> 
> EN DIRECT. Valls : «La France n'est pas en guerre contre une religion»


good for you lot!

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## Tshering22

Jihadis just started the French Revolution all over again. Getting the French into their La Revolution mode is the last thing they'd want.



karakoram said:


> If they do so then they should be ready for consequences to dealt with. They cannot do anything in the name of freedom of speech. Next target will be terry jones i believe. :-D :-D that pussy priest :-D



That will only escalate radical attacks against Muslims as well.

This has to stop somewhere. Otherwise there will be no end to violence.

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## karakoram

Tshering22 said:


> Jihadis just started the French Revolution all over again. Getting the French into their La Revolution mode is the last thing they'd want.
> 
> 
> 
> That will only escalate radical attacks against Muslims as well.
> 
> This has to stop somewhere. Otherwise there will be no end to violence.


Mate i condemn any violence any where in the world. But dont you think freedom of speech should have some limits ? If it hurt setiments of muslim then they should avoid these type of flaming non sense.



anonymus said:


> But every word of all your posts show that you are an inbred Jihadi.


A big Lolz to your mentality. Now dont quote me i am not here to reply trolling lunatics.


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## jaunty

K-Xeroid said:


> I think Charlie hebdo cartoonists love hell . more of them are preparing for hell journey. Amazing



Not everybody believes in those kind of things. You have no proof to demonstrate that a hell definitely exists. It is plausible that what you read in your religious book maybe entirely false. It is a question of your belief vs mine, in absence of any concrete proof.

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## Metanoia

jaunty said:


> Not everybody believes in that kind of things. You have no proof to demonstrate that a hell definitely exists. It is entirely plausible that what you read in your religious book maybe false. It is a question of your belief vs mine, in absence of any concrete proof.



This post might give him a nose bleed.


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## Tshering22

karakoram said:


> Mate i condemn any violence any where in the world. But dont you think freedom of speech should have some limits ? If it hurt setiments of muslim then they should avoid these type of flaming non sense.


They are doing it in a country where it is their law. You can tell them but not attack them.

If that happens, thou are declaring war against their people.

Charlie Hebdo has a history of such cartoons for all religions. They just are that way.

If this was in Pakistan or Saudi or any other, you have the right to take action. But stacking them in their own country will only make them strike harder against your community.

Those who don't like it can simply raise this issue for a debate but not kill.

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## karakoram

Tshering22 said:


> They are doing it in a country where it is their law. You can tell them but not attack them.
> 
> If that happens, thou are declaring war against their people.
> 
> Charlie Hebdo has a history of such cartoons for all religions. They just are that way.
> 
> If this was in Pakistan or Saudi or any other, you have the right to take action. But stacking them in their own country will only make them strike harder against your community.
> 
> Those who don't like it can simply raise this issue for a debate but not kill.


Mate i didn't support nor i attack them. I can only condemn attacks from both sides. I condemn cartoons and i condemn attack on cartoonist as well. But same problem arises again if they know muslim sentiment will be hurt why they make these type of cartoons. They can draw some extreme laughable cartoons of ISIS or baku haraam but making cartoon of our prophet is simply not acceptable.

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## flamer84

Since the *14th of July 1789 *the French never looked back when it comes to freedom of expression.They're not going to do it now just because some people seem to think the world is stuck in the 7th century.

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## Rasengan

> Since the *14th of July 1789 *the French never looked back when it comes to freedom of expression.They're not going to do it now just because some people seem to think the world is stuck in the 7th century.




The French comedian Dieudonne M'Bala was convicted and fined for describing the holocaust remembrance as a "memorial pornography". In 2005 the French courts banned a Jesus based clothing advert "as a gratuitous and aggressive act of intrusion on people's innermost beliefs". In 2003 France passed an internal security enactment, which made it an offense to insult the national flag or anthem, with a penalty of 9,000 euros or face jail time. In 2006, French rap star Richard Makela was put on trial for referring France as a "slut" and vowed to "piss" on Napoleon and Charles de Gaulle in his soundtrack.

Moral of the story is that the French and the secularists Europeans are hypocrites and are selective in nature in describing what exactly is freedom of expression. The Gayssot Act in France impeaches anyone who writes against the Holocaust

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## 13 kumaon

A question for Muslim who are criticising the Islamic terrorist attack.

who was Asma bint marwan?

wasn't she assassinated by the orders of your prophet just for expressing her views?

i asked this bcz its a relevant ques as Muslims allegedly support freedom of expression?


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## SamantK

Akheilos said:


> a person who *offers an argument* in defence of something controversial.
> 
> *I dont see the word defend that many of you have made up...Oh yea intolerance to different POV makes you do that! *
> 
> 
> Judaism says the same...you can google even gentile!
> 
> 
> Nahh you are just a gentile!


 I do not know how defence of an act of terror is actually a PoV, maybe you know better and hey no one blew you up so yeah tolerance is there.

They might say the same but by your religions own definition( and which you strongly believe in) that Islam is the one true religion you insult the 5 billion plus but hey those 5 billion did not maim or kill people for this and other insults being heaped upon them but only Muslims by shear numbers i.e 1.7 billion should not be insulted cause they will take up arms and kill people.

Cool story


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## karakoram

13 kumaon said:


> A question for Muslim who are criticising the Islamic terrorist attack.
> 
> who was Asma bint marwan?
> 
> wasn't she assassinated by the orders of your prophet just for expressing her views?
> 
> i asked this bcz its a relevant ques as Muslims allegedly support freedom of expression?


Did you read the hadith who has narrated it and authenticity or just copy paste name of asma binte marwan from anti islamic website ?


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## SamantK

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> This irony is lost on not just the apologists, but also on those higher up the chain who actively encourage such views because it helps with their own agenda. This apologist rot runs deep and wide.


Certainly it looks like that, I mean how hard can it be condemn an act of terror without ifs and buts!
Is this not how many people, esp in South Asia, blame the female for rapes since they are open/wear skimpy cloths/ go to pubs? They got raped because "blah blah blah", they were asking for it "some more blah blah blah", they should have know better "some more shrill blah blah blah".

The pattern is pretty clear for me, dangerous it is.

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## 13 kumaon

karakoram said:


> Did you read the hadith who has narrated it and authenticity or just copy paste name of asma binte marwan from anti islamic website ?


Is wiki a anti Islamic website?


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## Rasengan

> Did you read the hadith who has narrated it and authenticity or just copy paste name of asma binte marwan from anti islamic website ?



He has read this story from the countless of anti-Muslim websites online. The narration of an Hadith is very imperative because it can demonstrate it authenticity as there is normally a chain of reporters on a specific topic. However if the Hadith deviates from the teachings of the Quran, then its considered false.

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## MarkusS

Looks like Islam suffers the "Streisand Effect". lol

The more you try to silent something the more it gets published. 

few days ago nobody even knew this small magazine

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## Screambowl

well it is very sad that they lost their people...but they have got a lot of profit in donations.. and when the first edition comes with a cartoon, they will make millions ..


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## Rasengan

> Is wiki a anti Islamic website?



You must be uneducated and naive to believe that wiki is a source of material which can be quoted and referenced from. Every University in the world does not accept wiki as an academic reference, because it can be changed by anyone on the internet. For example I can write a wiki article explaining how 13 kuamaon is an abusive rapists.

There is an old Chinese saying "A jade stone is useless before it is processed; a man is good for nothing until he is educated". Which basically refers to the notion that before commenting on something you have virtually no knowledge on, a person should become educated first.


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## Areesh

RajputWarrior said:


> I've done plenty of fcking around don't worry, son



F*cking around? You look to be a product of one.

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## prashantazazel

Rasengan said:


> Please read more history, because communism and atheism have a correlation of both not believing in the idea of God. Actually both Lenin and Karl Marx's regarded them selves as atheists, rather than the adherence of the Jewish faith and this philosophy was used in the Soviet Union to prosecute all other religious faiths.





Rasengan said:


> Please read more history, because communism and atheism have a correlation of both not believing in the idea of God. Actually both Lenin and Karl Marx's regarded them selves as atheists, rather than the adherence of the Jewish faith and this philosophy was used in the Soviet Union to prosecute all other religious faiths.





Rasengan said:


> Please read more history, because communism and atheism have a correlation of both not believing in the idea of God. Actually both Lenin and Karl Marx's regarded them selves as atheists, rather than the adherence of the Jewish faith and this philosophy was used in the Soviet Union to prosecute all other religious faiths.





Rasengan said:


> Please read more history, because communism and atheism have a correlation of both not believing in the idea of God. Actually both Lenin and Karl Marx's regarded them selves as atheists, rather than the adherence of the Jewish faith and this philosophy was used in the Soviet Union to prosecute all other religious faiths.





Rasengan said:


> Please read more history, because communism and atheism have a correlation of both not believing in the idea of God. Actually both Lenin and Karl Marx's regarded them selves as atheists, rather than the adherence of the Jewish faith and this philosophy was used in the Soviet Union to prosecute all other religious faiths.


you answered it yourself. Correlation doesn't equal causation. People like Stalin believe in killing and exiling all opposition. Just as monarchs used to do. Their reasoning is that religion is used by the elite classes to control the lower classes. You tell people about god and the afterlife, and a lot of them will not question the status quo. That's the precise reason that the US wants to keep the middle eastern countries theocratic. Almost all the nationalist movements in the middle east have been overthrown with US support, and they allow the fanatics and the overtly religious to rule. This also funds the war industries.
the day you realize that religion(any) is a tool of political control, you will feel quite liberated.
and I say this despite the fact that I support capitalism( with checks and balances).


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## acid rain

prashantazazel said:


> you answered it yourself. Correlation doesn't equal causation. People like Stalin believe in killing and exiling all opposition. Just as monarchs used to do. Their reasoning is that religion is used by the elite classes to control the lower classes. You tell people about god and the afterlife, and a lot of them will not question the status quo. That's the precise reason that the US wants to keep the middle eastern countries theocratic. Almost all the nationalist movements in the middle east have been overthrown with US support, and they allow the fanatics and the overtly religious to rule. This also funds the war industries.
> the day you realize that religion(any) is a tool of political control, you will feel quite liberated.
> and I say this despite the fact that I support capitalism( with checks and balances).



What you say makes sense, but then does it mean isis movement is antI West? The running anti islam movement is antI West Because it aspires to change the status quo?

Everything can be politicised and everything can be used for politics and is being used. Politics has been in existence from time immemorial, Romans to Greeks engaged in it.

Autocracy, monarchy is in built in Islam, the US would have better control on them - true.

They needed them to fuel their economy and currency, but now that they desire to move away from the ME - they leave an unholy mess behind them that is being used by wahaabi st forces to change the demography and the geography of the ME to maintain control.


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## prashantazazel

aks18 said:


> too all the indians supporting this shit i just want a answer if freedom of speech is to hurt the sentiments of people then why there are violence over a single movie of amir khan PK which criticized almost all major religions what burnt hinduz in secular india ??


some rss types threw stones on maybe 3 theatres out of the thousands we have.... They were reined in. No one got killed. The movie made big money, despite being critical of Hindu traditions like idol worship.
This is what I saw from a neutral/ atheistic point of view. What did you see?

well


acid rain said:


> What you say makes sense, but then does it mean isis movement is antI West? The running anti islam movement is antI West Because it aspires to change the status quo?
> 
> Everything can be politicised and everything can be used for politics and is being used. Politics has been in existence from time immemorial, Romans to Greeks engaged in it.
> 
> Autocracy, monarchy is in built in Islam, the US would have better control on them - true.
> 
> They needed them to fuel their economy and currency, but now that they desire to move away from the ME - they leave an unholy mess behind them that is being used by wahaabi st forces to change the demography and the geography of the ME to maintain control.


well, this can be remedied to a great extent if religious beliefs are kept personal. Religious beliefs should be scrutinised and questioned as everything else. No one should be fighting over whose version of Islam or any other religion is the best.
Also, if you analyse the religious leaders- the pope, the ayatollah, Hindu high priests- you will find that every action they take has a political goal. They don't actually care about religions. The elite classes in any country don't actually practise any religion. Saudi Royal family lives the good western life, pakistani / Indian leaders send their kids to the west for education, while promoting conservatism in the worst sense, in their own countries.
ISIS, according to me is a US/ Israeli/ Saudi creation- meant to make Iran kneel. Iran has organized political leadership, which makes it quite a bit of an antagonist to the US.
P.S. - US foreign policy sucks...


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## Rasengan

> you answered it yourself. Correlation doesn't equal causation. People like Stalin believe in killing and exiling all opposition. Just as monarchs used to do. Their reasoning is that religion is used by the elite classes to control the lower classes. You tell people about god and the afterlife, and a lot of them will not question the status quo. That's the precise reason that the US wants to keep the middle eastern countries theocratic. Almost all the nationalist movements in the middle east have been overthrown with US support, and they allow the fanatics and the overtly religious to rule. This also funds the war industries.
> the day you realize that religion(any) is a tool of political control, you will feel quite liberated.
> and I say this despite the fact that I support capitalism( with checks and balances).



Why did you quote the same message five consecutive times? Karl Marx's was an atheist and this is documented quite extensively in his books. He passionately believed in the notion of absolute humanism, which sets man at the summit of the cosmos, becoming the supreme being of this world. In his viewpoint, he assumed that man's greatness could only be achieved, if religion as a whole was destroyed, since it prevented man from becoming aware of his dignity. This philosophy deeply influenced the Soviet Union which prosecuted religious sentiments across its territories. Evidently this can be proven when the Orthodox Church was forced to go underground. Stalin was a communists and an atheist, so not only is there some form of correlation between the two components, there is also causation in the form of ideology he practiced and followed. Now you have argued the conjecture that Stalin killed and exiled his opposition, just like all previous monarch's in history and have used religion as a tool so that the elite classes can control the lower classes. This argument is flawed because in the Soviet Union there was no religion, however people were still massacred even though the difference of classes did not exists anymore as everyone was given the same pay. Second in China the lower classes were in control of the country as land reform in the early part of the CCP rule took effect and the landowners were destroyed. However during the cultural revolution millions still died and religious groups were specifically targeted. So atheist can also be described as becoming part of the problem that has exploited the proletarians just to stay in control of power. 

Nobody believes in something unless that person first studies the subject and then tries to question it's validity. Therefore the idea that the status quo would not be questioned is absurd, just because somebody tells you about God and the afterlife. Everyday I question new things I learn about the Quran and actually try to debate with imams to see if this makes sense. If the US was interested to see the Middle East become theocratic, then none of the monarch's would exists and the banking system would be of free interests rate...obviously this is not the case.

Saddam Hussein's party was a mixture of socialism and nationalism and it was backed by the United States to actually come into power and play proxy war with Iran. There is no religious rule in the Middle East because most of them are ruled by monarch's that are puppet rulers of the American establishment. This also explains why most of the Muslim world has a subconscious hatred towards America and its cronies. Seriously read more on this topic before commenting, because its very complex and requires alot of reading on colonization, the start of Arab nationalism and how Islamic voices have been clamped down inside the Arab world and also Islamic history.


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## VCheng

SamantK said:


> Certainly it looks like that, I mean how hard can it be condemn an act of terror without ifs and buts!
> Is this not how many people, esp in South Asia, blame the female for rapes since they are open/wear skimpy cloths/ go to pubs? They got raped because "blah blah blah", they were asking for it "some more blah blah blah", they should have know better "some more shrill blah blah blah".
> 
> The pattern is pretty clear for me, dangerous it is.



As a microcosm of Pakistani society, what is more dangerous and telling is that any potential resident beavers with Jamia Hafsa attitudes (* I am NOT saying that there are any!*  ) are pampered by those who should know better. This is ominous indeed, if true.

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## Rasengan

> well, this can be remedied to a great extent if religious beliefs are kept personal



So you adhere to the political philosophy of secularism, where religion is separated from the State. The ideology is full of fallacy in my opinion because without religion there is no authority on what exactly is morality. For example today society believes that incestuous relationship should be illegal, however this can easily change in 200 years time where advocates in society try to push for changes for it to become legal. Religion keeps a balance check on society, whether its Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism or Buddhism. 



> No one should be fighting over whose version of Islam or any other religion is the best.Also, if you analyse the religious leaders- the pope, the ayatollah, Hindu high priests- you will find that every action they take has a political goal.




Since the Pope has the decree of Divine by Right rule from God, I can't defend his stance on whether he is political in nature when he makes decisions on certain issues. However in Islam apart from the Four Rightly Guided Caliphs all other leaders are prone to mistakes and are human beings, henceforth are not infallible from criticism and may certainly take some form of action which is for political gains. However this is because they have deviated from the Quran and Sunnah. My source of inspiration from Islam comes from Peers, because they are not political as there whole lives are devoted towards Allah and showing love to his Holy Prophet (PBUH).


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## Akasa

The-Authority said:


> These people are no less than the killers. They are also extremist in their heads.



But ultimately there is a significant distinction between posting cartoons and killing people, no?


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## Rasengan

> But ultimately there is a significant distinction between posting cartoons and killing people, no?



But ultimately there is a significant distinction between posting messages on the democracy wall in Beijing and the killing of people, no?

There is an old Chinese saying "One dog snarls at a shadow; a hundred howl at each others barking". This emphasizes that blindly following any trend without knowing exactly, what it is makes a person foolish.


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## Shot-Caller

SinoSoldier said:


> But ultimately there is a significant distinction between posting cartoons and killing people, no?


Yes there is. There's no justification for killing someone. Similarly there's no justification for those cartoons because they are not just cartoons. There are a lot of things that can be done to people but we don't do them because we know it'll hurt them and may change their thinking in a negative way. That's what people need to understand.


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## notsuperstitious

Menace2Society said:


> Why don't a group of Muslim cartoonists get together and create some very offensive stuff on France and French people.
> 
> Leave religion alone, all monotheistic religions should be respected. Polytheism does not count, its not a religion.


 
You personally deserve no respect as you don't respect others. Simples.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

notsuperstitious said:


> We think islam is a cult and should not be respected.



Than you n your kind is so different than scum... except you have a different religion.. but the same shit..


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## notsuperstitious

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Than you n your kind is so different than scum... except you have a different religion.. but the same shit..


 
Deleted.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

notsuperstitious said:


> Many sunnis think shia like you deserve no respect too. Infact they kill shias for saying stuff against some sahaba.


Are you Shia?Sunni? even Muslim? As for me... half my family is Sunni.. so??




> I'm only willing to not respect an intolerant violent ideology that will try to intimidate me into ''respecting'' it, but you guys are willing to kill for it. I must be the scum.



Try your own country... a low caste woman gets killed for feeding the dog of a high caste... hindu muslim riots?hindu christian riots and so on? for what? you know the answer...

Im a muslim and my religion tells me to respect all religions,beliefs etc.. even yours... see the difference?


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## notsuperstitious

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Are you Shia?Sunni? even Muslim? As for me... half my family is Sunni.. so??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try your own country... a low caste woman gets killed for feeding the dog of a high caste... hindu muslim riots?hindu christian riots and so on? for what? you know the answer...
> 
> Im a muslim and my religion tells me to respect all religions,beliefs etc.. even yours... see the difference?



The posts after posts on this very thread by muslims insulting Hinduism is proof of the respect of muslims. The poster I replied to clearly says hindus do not deserve respect.

Islam's idea of respect







Its one thing to say ''my religion teaches me to respect others'' or it offers full rights to minorities and women etc etc and another to practice it. Unless you are the only true muslim on earth, show me one muslim scholar who will say that mosque built on what's essentially is hindu ''mecca'' should be returned to hindus because our religion teaches us respect.

I'll show you almost ALL of our scholars who rejected caste system for example were Brahmins.

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## Hurter

They are damaging themselves.. LET THEM


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## DESERT FIGHTER

notsuperstitious said:


> The posts after posts on this very thread by muslims insulting Hinduism is proof of the respect of muslims. The poster I replied to clearly says hindus do not deserve respect.


So how are you different from those posters?



> Islam's idea of respect



Did "Islam" make that mosque?(i dnt know the story of that mosque-temple)

Or did "Hinduism" do this:







> Its one thing to say ''my religion teaches me to respect others'' or it offers full rights to minorities and women etc etc and another to practice it.



Many.. i myself being a muslim respect all religions and have non muslim frnds whom i treat like brothers... celebrate Xmas etc with them and so on? whats your point?



> Unless you are the only true muslim on earth, show me one muslim scholar who will say that mosque built on what's essentially is hindu ''mecca'' should be returned to hindus because our religion teaches us respect.



What a stupid logic... ask any islamic scholar about that and he will condemn any such act of destroying non muslim religion sites.. many others wouldnt.. just like many non muslim scholars who would condemn or encourage violence against others?



> I'll show you almost ALL of our scholars who rejected caste system for example were Brahmins.



Yet it is practised? who is to be blamed? hinduism or scumbags?

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## Zarvan

pak-marine said:


> Go ahead nothing wrong with it us muslims should learn to counter negative criticism .. murder and slaughter is no way .. Whats the deal if they drew cartoons prophet PBUH was one man he spread by character not by sword
> 
> @Zarvan i would like to hear your thoughts please ..


These retarded cartnoonists and there dumb supporters like you will not learn and will cause bloodshed in world.

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## Chinese-Dragon

notsuperstitious said:


> Islam's idea of respect



What building is this?


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## SamantK

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> As a microcosm of Pakistani society, what is more dangerous and telling is that any potential resident beavers with Jamia Hafsa attitudes (* I am NOT saying that there are any!*  ) are pampered by those who should know better. This is ominous indeed, if true.


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## Penguin

Zarvan said:


> These retarded cartnoonists and there dumb supporters like you will not learn and will cause bloodshed in world.


Yeah, that's right, cartoonist cause bloodshed >rolleyes<

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## acid rain

anonymus said:


> That building is Gyanvapi mosque in Varanasi, which Auragzeb built by demolishing Kashi vishwanath Temple. The pillars you see on left side of mosque are remnant of Hindu temple.It could not be destroyed completely because of it's size,hence muslims just put up a dome over it and declared it a Mosque.
> 
> 
> Make no mistake, Islam is an inherently violent cult ,and has been so throughout History.



Forget the past. .check out what Islamic state has done in Iraq. .how many places of worship and tombs have they blown up.

I find it funny when muslims say Islamic state isn't muslim- tell that to the tens of thousands who joined them and are still joining.


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## Water Car Engineer

These terrorist mad it worse.

And Im glad these people are fight back for their RIGHTS!!


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## notsuperstitious

Chinese-Dragon said:


> What building is this?


 
Kashi Vishwanath temple, most sacred temple of Hindus.

@DESERT FIGHTER the reactionary destruction of babri mosque is linked to the fact that muslims did not even offer a compromise on any of the three most sacred temples (hindus dis not even ask for the rest). Respect can not be one way, did you forget the names of your weapon systems? In hinduism, despite its many faults, there is no commentary on islam. And dont tell me we have not tried to fix our issues. Can the same be said about muslims who seem to be getting more and more fundamentalist by the day.

I do believe you respect other religions, in my experience many shias do. Anyways I deleted that post as its unfair to generalise, you have a point.


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## K-Xeroid

jaunty said:


> Not everybody believes in those kind of things. You have no proof to demonstrate that a hell definitely exists. It is plausible that what you read in your religious book maybe entirely false. It is a question of your belief vs mine, in absence of any concrete proof.


You may don't believe in hell, but you do believe in graves and deaths. so just for your type replace hell with graves in my previous statement. These cartoonist love to be turned into graves that is why they are spreading hate atmosphere by insulting others.



Metanoia said:


> This post might give him a nose bleed.


really? I posted because i were expecting questions in return and questions are always welcome.


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## jaunty

K-Xeroid said:


> You may don't believe in hell,* but you do believe in graves and deaths*. so just for your type replace hell with graves in my previous statement. These cartoonist love to be turned into graves that is why they are spreading hate atmosphere by insulting others.



Is there anyone who does not believe in death?  

BTW what are you trying to suggest?


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## K-Xeroid

jaunty said:


> Is there anyone who does not believe in death?
> 
> BTW what are you trying to suggest?


Insulting is not freedom of speech, and hence avoid such acts is best solution. 
deaths is at least concrete example for you. you can't deny it straight.  , well do you believe in aliens?


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## gambit

K-Xeroid said:


> *Insulting is not freedom of speech*, and hence avoid such acts is best solution.
> deaths is at least concrete example for you. you can't deny it straight.  , well do you believe in aliens?


Yes, it is. Freedom of speech means exactly that. An insult is an opinion. Whether you agree with that opinion or not is another issue. But the essence of the freedom of speech is that you have the range to be insulting if you want.

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## Bang Galore

K-Xeroid said:


> well do you believe in aliens?



Not till I joined this forum.

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## Winchester

anonymus said:


> Make no mistake, Islam is an inherently violent cult ,and has been so throughout History.


@Horus @Jango @waz i realize this forum attracts the most sad pathetic hinduvati idiots out there 
but i still hope that you people keep a lid on things here 
What we don't want to see here is PDF being turned into a platform for mud slinging any religion 
The first step would be banning people who have shown a pattern of exactly doing that

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## K-Xeroid

gambit said:


> Yes, it is. Freedom of speech means exactly that. An insult is an opinion. Whether you agree with that opinion or not is another issue. But the essence of the freedom of speech is that you have the range to be insulting if you want.


Well, If sensitive issues were dealt smartly , then we were not be debating essence of freedom of speech today, attacks on mosques in sweden and france, Is that also essence of western freedom of speech?


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## trident2010

Freedom of speech shall prevail !! Keep it up


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## K-Xeroid

Winchester said:


> @Horus @Jango @waz i realize this forum attracts the most sad pathetic hinduvati idiots out there
> but i still hope that you people keep a lid on things here
> What we don't want to see here is PDF being turned into a platform for mud slinging any religion
> The first step would be banning people who have shown a pattern of exactly doing that


I guess insulting religion except Islam is against forum rule. islam is insulted daily by hindutva here but again, its considered freedom, and when hindutva being insulted then it is considered insult.

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## gambit

K-Xeroid said:


> Well, If sensitive issues were dealt smartly , then we were not be debating essence of freedom of speech today, *attacks on mosques in sweden and france, Is that also essence of western freedom of speech?*


No, they are not.

Here is where you are wrong about this 'freedom of speech': Ideas are not immune from criticisms or even insults.

Persons are properties are different. If I break your arm, I deprived you of a mean to make a living, to provide for your family. If I called you a name, what harm have I done ? Did you lose your job ?

Freedom of speech means exactly that. It does not mean I have the freedom to physically hurt you or your property.

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## notsuperstitious

Winchester said:


> @Horus @Jango @waz i realize this forum attracts the most sad pathetic hinduvati idiots out there
> but i still hope that you people keep a lid on things here
> What we don't want to see here is PDF being turned into a platform for mud slinging any religion
> The first step would be banning people who have shown a pattern of exactly doing that


 
The thread is full of abuse of Hinduism LOL.

The famous Islamic (one way) respect of religions will play out here I guess!


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## K-Xeroid

gambit said:


> No, they are not.
> 
> Here is where you are wrong about this 'freedom of speech': Ideas are not immune from criticisms or even insults.
> 
> Persons are properties are different. If I break your arm, I deprived you of a mean to make a living, to provide for your family. If I called you a name, what harm have I done ? Did you lose your job ?
> 
> Freedom of speech means exactly that. It does not mean I have the freedom to physically hurt you or your property.


what about Psychological torture? insulting someone over religion is not termed as racism in europe. they are continuously slanging us, what if someone slang European over its tradition or its background ? it is definitely regarded as act of insult, radical , extreme, racist . . then why so much freedom against Muslims is appreciated?


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## Winchester

notsuperstitious said:


> The thread is full of abuse of Hinduism LOL.
> 
> The famous Islamic (one way) respect of religions will play out here I guess!


and yet you are still here 
you can always join this one 
: Bharat-Rakshak.com - The Consortium of Indian Military and Defence Websites :


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## syedali73

K-Xeroid said:


> what about Psychological torture? insulting someone over religion is not termed as racism in europe. they are continuously slanging us, what if someone slang European over its tradition or its background ? it is definitely regarded as act of insult, radical , extreme, racist . . then why so much freedom against Muslims is appreciated?


Why wasting time? Where this freaking freedom of speech goes when it comes to questioning the damn holocaust? The proponent and die-hard supporter of this 'freedom-of-speech' idiocy become mute when this question is thrown at them. The only use of the freedom of speech is to sling mud on Islam and ridicule its Prophet (PBUH), nothing less nothing more. These standard bearers of the so-called free-of-speech are worst kind of hypocrites and liars.

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## gambit

K-Xeroid said:


> *what about Psychological torture?* insulting someone over religion is not termed as racism in europe. they are continuously slanging us, what if someone slang European over its tradition or its background ? it is definitely regarded as act of insult, radical , extreme, racist . . then why so much freedom against Muslims is appreciated?


Do not toss that around as if you know what you are talking about.

Psychological torture is when the victim is captive and unable to escape a constant barrage of emotional and mental assaults and that the victim have no ability to respond in kind.

Who is forcing you to buy magazines that draws Muhammad ? When there was a just a rumor of a Quran burning in the US, Muslims on the other side of the world rioted. Was that from psychological torture ? A mere rumor is mental and emotional torture ? Further, who is forcing the Muslims to come to the West when they knew that there is an abundance of rights and freedoms that will be different from what they are used to from their home countries ?

As for the Europeans and their history, go right ahead and use such those histories and slander them. You have the same freedom of speech they do. Same latitudes and limitations.

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## pak-marine

Zarvan said:


> These retarded cartnoonists and there dumb supporters like you will not learn and will cause bloodshed in world.



Prophet PBUH has a billion ++ followers in todays world you think a cartoonist can threat this personality .. you are so very wrong .. slaughtering of unarmed people is causing a huge damage and have created a very negative impact impact .. a million copies of the magazine were sold world wide just because of silly actions of some organisations.


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## K-Xeroid

gambit said:


> Do not toss that around as if you know what you are talking about.
> 
> Psychological torture is when the victim is captive and unable to escape a constant barrage of emotional and mental assaults and that the victim have no ability to respond in kind.
> 
> Who is forcing you to buy magazines that draws Muhammad ? When there was a just a rumor of a Quran burning in the US, Muslims on the other side of the world rioted. Was that from psychological torture ? A mere rumor is mental and emotional torture ? Further, who is forcing the Muslims to come to the West when they knew that there is an abundance of rights and freedoms that will be different from what they are used to from their home countries ?
> 
> As for the Europeans and their history, go right ahead and use such those histories and slander them. You have the same freedom of speech they do. Same latitudes and limitations.


Muslims rioted but not just after quran burning incident, but over they repeatedly insulted Islam and created a video documentary against Prophet PBUH and that led to ban on youtube in various muslim countries , its your few extreme fools who were provoking these incidents, such hate based criticism against any other religion can get you to jail in europe. we are not against criticism, but insult is not criticism, provoking someone is not freedom of speech . Its direct a hate crime.

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## gambit

K-Xeroid said:


> Muslims rioted but not just after quran burning incident, but over they repeatedly insulted Islam and created a video documentary against Prophet PBUH and that led to ban on youtube in various muslim countries , its your few extreme fools who were provoking these incidents, such hate based criticism against any other religion can get you to jail in europe. we are not against criticism, but *insult is not criticism*, provoking someone is not freedom of speech . Its direct a hate crime.


Sorry, but we disagree. Guess we will just have to go to war over this.

Wait a moment...We are already at war over this.

I hope you understand that I do not want to wish you the customary 'Good luck' in this war.

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## syedali73

K-Xeroid said:


> Muslims rioted but not just after quran burning incident, but over they repeatedly insulted Islam and created a video documentary against Prophet PBUH and that led to ban on youtube in various muslim countries , its your few extreme fools who were provoking these incidents, such hate based criticism against any other religion can get you to jail in europe. we are not against criticism, but insult is not criticism, provoking someone is not freedom of speech . Its direct a hate crime.


Beautifully put together but if you think whom you are addressing to will even attempt to read let alone understand your post, you are hopelessly wrong. We have a few members here who only and exclusively read, understand (doubtful though) and admire (absolutely) their own posts and of none others. "_My way or highway_" is their motto for they think they are powerful enough to make this happen. They forget that there once were as mighty empires as Rome, Ottoman, United Kingdom (sun never used to set), USSR, and now these mighty empires are no where to be found.


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## Dubious

SamantK said:


> I do not know how defence of an act of terror is actually a PoV, maybe you know better and hey no one blew you up so yeah tolerance is there.


Parroting what I just said :


Akheilos said:


> *I dont see the word defend **that many of you have made up...Oh yea intolerance to different POV makes you do that! *


doesnt answer my question!



SamantK said:


> They might say the same but by your religions own definition( and which you strongly believe in) that Islam is the *one true religion you insult the 5 billion plus* but hey those 5 billion did not maim or kill people for this and other insults being heaped upon them but only Muslims by shear numbers i.e 1.7 billion should not be insulted cause they will take up arms and kill people.
> 
> Cool story


 I already answered this twice on this thread alone so again parroting just shows a certain level....

*Christianity is the one true religion*. That may sound awfully dogmatic and narrow-minded, but the simple truth is that *Christianity is the only true religion*. Jesus said that *He alone *was the way to the Father (John 14:6)--that He alone revealed the Father (Matt. 11:27; Luke 10:22). Christians do not go around saying *Christianity is the only way* because they are arrogant, narrow-minded, stupid, and judgmental. They do so because they believe what Jesus said. They believe in Jesus, who claimed to be God (John 8:58; Exodus 3:14), who forgave sins (Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48), and who rose from the dead (Luke 24:24-29; John 2:19f). *Jesus said that He was the only way*. 

the *Jewish people have a covenant with G-d and do not need the Messiah* * to enter Heaven*. *Gentiles *need Yeshua (Jesus) to enter Heaven.* As G-d's elect people the Jews* enjoy a *special right and Covenant *which supersedes the requirement for them to accept the messiah.

Something a rabbi said: One True Religion 
The eighth of Maimonides' 13 Principles of Judaism is that the entire Torah is God's word. As God knows all, His will that Torah remains unchanged throughout every generation teaches that the *Torah's ideas are eternally true; they are applicable to all generations.*

*History does not recount God giving a religion to mankind, other than Judaism*.

The Torah states (Deuteronomy 4:9-13):

(Moses told the Israelites Only beware for yourself and greatly beware for your soul, lest you forget the things that your eyes have beheld. Do not remove this memory from your heart all the days of your life. Teach your children and your children's children about the day that you stood before the Lord your God at Chorev (Sinai)...

So you approached and stood at the foot of the mountain. The mountain was burning with a fire reaching the heart of heaven, with darkness, cloud, and mist. God spoke to you from the midst of the fire; you were hearing the sound of words, but you were not seeing a form, only a sound. He told you of His covenant, instructing you to keep the Ten Commandments, and He inscribed them on two stone tablets.

A precise claim is being made here:* That an entire nation - the three million men, women and children who came out of Egypt - heard G-d speaking at Mount Sinai, saying, "I am the Lord your G-d."*

More interesting stuff here : Faith in Torah - Belief in Judaism - Revelation at Sinai* - nope it is not an ANTI JEWISH website but a Jewish one!*


So whose offended? 

And Nope none of that is not from the Quran 

_*Please go educate yourselves! *_


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## Penguin

K-Xeroid said:


> Insulting is not freedom of speech, and hence avoid such acts is best solution.
> deaths is at least concrete example for you. you can't deny it straight.  , well do you believe in aliens?


If you find CH insulting, please realize it is an equal opportunity insulter that takes on a variety of believe systems, whether or not religious.










Interesting discussion here
Why is it okay when Charlie Hebdo mocks Islam, but mocking Judaism is considered anti-Semitism? - Quora

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## syedali73

Penguin said:


> If you find CH insulting, please realize it is *an equal opportunity insulter* that takes on a variety of believe systems, whether or not religious.


Only because somebody abuses everybody in the neighborhood does not mean I will let him abuse my loved ones too. Abusing or insulting Moses, and Jesus Christ is as much condemnable.


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## Penguin

K-Xeroid said:


> Well, If sensitive issues were dealt smartly , then we were not be debating essence of freedom of speech today, attacks on mosques in sweden and france, Is that also essence of western freedom of speech?


There is a distinct difference between speech (what you say) and violence (what you do). You can say "I hate X, I love Y" but you can't engage in violence or incite others to engage in violence. That is where the line is draw. Attacking is crossing the line in a free society. Freedom of speech and gathering is essential to e.g. a legitimate political proces as well as freedom of religion.



syedali73 said:


> Only because somebody abuses everybody in the neighborhood does not mean I will let him abuse my loved ones too. Abusing or insulting Moses, and Jesus Christ is as much condemnable.


Condemning (or talking about it with the 'offender') is not a problem. Beating, stabbing, shooting or blowing up are.

If I were to say "I don't believe there is a god' < hypothetical statement >, would that be offensive to you? Would I deserve to die for that? Because that is also part of the freedoms discussed, to NOT be religious and to be able to say so and not get harrassed.

In the Netherlands, 42% of the people are NOT religious. That is the majority, assuming you don't lump protestants and catholics together. IF you do lump them together, 48% is 'christian', 42% is not religious and 10% believes something else. So there are 58% who are religious versus 42% that are not. The latter % has been on the increase over the decades since WW2.... the former % has steadily declined.





CBS- Central Bureau of Statistics aka Statistics Netherlands

You might find this interesting/related






> In most countries surveyed, majorities consider religion an essential part of their lives. However, younger people are generally less likely to say religion is very important to them. This is especially true in Western Europe, where relatively few young people say religion plays a key role in their lives, but the same pattern can be found in other countries around the world as well, including the United States.
> In addition to an *age gap*, there is also a significant *gender gap* in most nations over religion’s importance. Women are consistently more likely than men to describe religion as very important to them. The largest gender gap on the survey appears in the U.S., where 65% of women consider religion very important, compared with just 44% of men.
> Generally, there is a clear relationship between *wealth and religiosity*: in rich nations fewer people view religion as important than in poor nations. In the current survey, people who live in the poorest nations almost unanimously say religion is important to them, while the citizens of Western Europe and other wealthy nations tend to say it plays a less significant role. However, Americans – who tend to be religious despite their country’s wealth – continue to be a major exception to this pattern.
> Muslim respondents consistently rate religion an important part of their lives, and traditional Islamic practices – such as praying five times a day and fasting during Ramadan – are common among the Muslim publics surveyed.
> ...
> Nearly all Indonesians (99%) and Pakistanis (98%) surveyed consider religion important. Elsewhere in the Asia and Pacific region, about nine-in-ten (89%) in predominantly Hindu India rate religion important. The picture is quite different, however, in the more economically advanced nations of Japan (41% important), South Korea (45%) and Australia (46%).


Chapter 2. Religiosity | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project

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## Red Spinifex

> There will “obviously” be Muhammad cartoons in the next edition of Charlie Hebdo, the magazine’s lawyer has announced. The print run will be up to three million, instead of the usual 60,000.



Excellent! That's the way to do it. Don't give in a millimetre to the murderous Moslem scum.
The more offensive it is to Moslems, the better.

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## syedali73

Penguin said:


> Condemning (or talking about it with the 'offender') is not a problem. Shooting or blowing up is.


So far, no one has endorsed shooting or killing.


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## ozzy22

It was a cartoon by a magazine the drew cartoons and mocked every religion but the people who hurt Islam and Muslims were the 3 gunman.Just look around and the response it got. God doesn't need us humans to defend him or his prophet.

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## Penguin

K-Xeroid said:


> what about Psychological torture? insulting someone over religion is not termed as racism in europe. they are continuously slanging us, what if someone slang European over its tradition or its background ? it is definitely regarded as act of insult, radical , extreme, racist . . then why so much freedom against Muslims is appreciated?


Look around you, on this forum. If you are western, you get plenty of insult here. That is not in the last place because where you stand (opinion) depends on where you sit (where you are or come from ).



syedali73 said:


> Why wasting time? Where this freaking freedom of speech goes when it comes to questioning the damn holocaust? The proponent and die-hard supporter of this 'freedom-of-speech' idiocy become mute when this question is thrown at them. The only use of the freedom of speech is to sling mud on Islam and ridicule its Prophet (PBUH), nothing less nothing more. These standard bearers of the so-called free-of-speech are worst kind of hypocrites and liars.


The holocaust is an historical fact, not an opinion or 'perspective'. Attempts to rewrite history - anyone's history - are despicable and selfdeluding.

Why have a problem with attempts do deal with those that try to falsify history? Ask the Chinese here what they think of Japanese denial of large scale and systematic atrocities against the Chinese in WW2.

IMHO Napoleon never existed, there never was a WW2 and men never set foot on the moon. So, I wonder why I'm stuck in the Netherlands with a 'napoleontic' rather than a 'common law' legal system, what all the fuss is about between Germans and jews, Japanese and Chinese, and what else was cooked up in Hollywood....

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## Red Spinifex

Penguin said:


> Look around you, on this forum. If you are western, you get plenty of insult here. That is not in the last place because where you stand (opinion) depends on where you sit (where you are or come from ).
> 
> 
> The holocaust is an historical fact, not an opinion or 'perspective'. Attempts to rewrite history - anyone's history - are despicable and selfdeluding.



You are absolutely right. If you are a Westerner on here you get plenty of insults and bad behaviour directed at you by Moslems of all stripes.

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## notsuperstitious

syedali73 said:


> Only because somebody abuses everybody in the neighborhood does not mean I will let him abuse my loved ones too. Abusing or insulting Moses, and Jesus Christ is as much condemnable.


 
Thats respecting your own prophets. Atleast give examples of religious symbols not revered in islam to make your argument look a wee bit genuine!!!

Like this. Tell us, how much you respect that temple over which a mosque has been built by a ruler your country considers a hero officially.

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## Abingdonboy

Good for them, if they had not done this then those people died for NOTHING.

Do not let extremists dictate their terms to the rest of the world. Under French law this outlet can print such material, if anyone has an issue with that then don't look at the pictures. Yes there are over a billion Muslims but that means there are more than 6 billion who ARE NOT Muslims so why should the majority of the world's population be held to ransom by a fanatical minority?


I've looked into this and the reason Islam does not allow the image of Mohammed to be created is because they don't want to create an idol of the man, because that would be idol worship and in Islam there is only one God (allah). And do you know what one of the scumbags who killed the people in the paper's building said? "I have avenged Mohammed"! If this isn't idol worship I don't know what is.

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## Penguin

syedali73 said:


> So far, no one has endorsed shooting or killing.


Be glad.


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## Abingdonboy

tahsin said:


> I for one won't feel saddened if there is another attack. This is deliberate provocation. If there is an attack on them by militants in the coming weeks, remember they are bringing it on themselves.


 Is advocating acts of terrorism not a bannable offence on here @waz?

Because we all know the rational response to a CARTOON is death?

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## Abingdonboy

JonAsad said:


> Fcuk charlie hebdo-
> If somethig like the attacks ever happens again on them they fully deserve it-


Why? I am honestly trying to grapple with this, is the right to LIFE by these cartoonists less than the right of the Muslim community's right not to be offended?

I can understand that some Muslims will get offended by the depiction of their prophet BUT why should that invite violence? Is violence the only means of resolving disagreements your community has?

They provoke you with a cartoon, you provoke them back by threatening violence (and in some cases committing violence) and round and round we go.

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## Penguin

Redhawk said:


> You are absolutely right. If you are a Westerner on here you get plenty of insults and bad behaviour directed at you by Moslems of all stripes.
> .


And hindu's too. Not to mention the Chinese (and communists have a distinct perspective of their own, with respect to religion [opium for the masses IIRC] )



aakash_2410 said:


> See you just insulted a religion in a gross manner. And you also showed that you're a bigot by saying that Islam is more important. It is no more important than Atheism or Scientology.



Granted, there are more followers of Islam. 

But that does not make other flavors inherently less valid.

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## Abingdonboy

Areesh said:


> Some bigots free speech is not bigger than a billion plus people's sentiments.


 Since when did the entire world replace their common law with Sharia law? A billion is a lot of people but it is still the minority of the world's population. Why should the minority dictate the terms to the majority? I usually avoid these kind of religious topics but what I am reading is infuriating me. Who are Muslims to tell the other 6 billion people how to live their lives?

This sense of superiority is despicable and I have encountered it time and again with Muslims (not just on here but in school and on the streets of the UK)who consider their religion above all others'.

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## ozzy22

Penguin said:


> And hindu's too. Not to mention the Chinese (and communists have a distinct perspective of their own, with respect to religion [opium for the masses IIRC] )


The fact that both sides think the forum is biased against them just shows that this forum is pretty neutral and fair.

This is what I wrote to another member.

Sure. Like I said you only see offence when it offends your sensibilities. Name me another defence forum that is as open and welcoming to everyone as this forum is. It seems like you’re seeing oppression were they aren’t any. Kind of like how you describe Muslims?


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## Penguin

Abingdonboy said:


> Why? I am honestly trying to grapple with this, is the right to LIFE by these cartoonists less than the right of the Muslim community's right not to be offended?
> 
> I can understand that some Muslims will get offended by the depiction of their prophet BUT why should that invite violence? Is violence the only means of resolving disagreements your community has?
> 
> They provoke you with a cartoon, you provoke them back by threatening violence (and in some cases committing violence) and round and round we go.


We all can use thicker skins and better communication skills, I suppose.

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## Abingdonboy

Penguin said:


> We all can use thicker skins and better communication skills, I suppose.


 In an ideal world of course. I'm not saying Muslims don't have a right to be offended or protest but to threaten/condone violence on CARTOONISTS it is just mindboggling.

Islam translates to peace does it not? How about practicing this. I am a believer of one God true, the same god as Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus etc and I believe that this God doesn't need us killing each other over bloody CARTOONS. If these people offend God then let God sort this out, don't take it upon yourselves. I would argue acting in Allah's/Islam's name to commit acts of terrorism on innocents is FAR more blasphemous than anything anyone with a pen and paper could ever do.

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## notsuperstitious

ozzy22 said:


> The fact that both sides think the forum is biased against them just shows that this forum is pretty neutral and fair.
> 
> This is what I wrote to another member.
> 
> Sure. Like I said you only see offence when it offends your sensibilities. Name me another defence forum that is as open and welcoming to everyone as this forum is. It seems like you’re seeing oppression were they aren’t any. Kind of like how you describe Muslims?


 
Oh please not another claim of superiority, pls pls pls.

The credit goes to us (ok not me), to people like @Penguin and @gambit and @Abingdonboy who just grow a thick skin and contribute immensely to this defence forum.

Read comment no 7 and other comments by the forum admin, unprovoked. Tell us we don't take that in our stride and try to co exist and even make this forum rich! Welcoming yes, but thats not even half the story.

Growing Hindu extremism in india




> God bless Mohammed bin Qasim for destroying stupid myth centered beliefs, stones and for killing an inbred fool Raja who married his own sister. Chiii, thank God such an ugly and enslaving way of life was tore into shreds by a 17 year old. If it wasn't for him, we wouldn't be eating beef nihari, chapli kabab and beef sajji today.


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## jamahir

ozzy22 said:


> side effects may include
> nausea, vomiting, water weight gain, lower back pain, receding hairline, eczema, seborrhea, psoriasis, itchy chafing clothing, liver spots, blood clots, ringworm, excessive body odor, uneven tire wear, pyorrhea, gonorrhea, diarrhea, halitosis, scoliosis, loss of bladder control, hammertoe, the shanks, low sperm count, warped floors, cluttered drawers, hunchback,


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## ozzy22

notsuperstitious said:


> Ha ha that welcoming superiority claim did not last long, did it? Went up in a plume of smoke faster than a teenage suicide bomber!


Like I said before the low, low price of using Google can help you with this unfortunate problem you seem to be having and I didn't claim superiority I said the forum is pretty fair. If it wasn't I doubt there would be *so* many Indians on here.


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## My-Analogous

Gabriel92 said:


> Charlie Hebdo was criticizing all extremists of all religions,and even extremists politics.
> I personally hope that they will continue publishing ! (if they give up,the terrorists will win.)



Critizing is different and insulting others is another. you guys don't have a right to insult over 1 billion Muslims. In our religion we can't make any photo of our prophet by any means. You guys should not have permit to draw prophet Muhammad and insult us. Criticizing Islam or Muhammed is acceptable but not to do something that is not even allowed to us. It is like that we urinate your holy water and saying that it will not effect its purity because science proof that that urine will not mix with water. Criticize us but not insult us


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## Gabriel92

ghazaliy2k said:


> Critizing is different and insulting others is another. you guys don't have a right to insult over 1 billion Muslims. In our religion we can't make any photo of our prophet by any means. You guys should not have permit to draw prophet Muhammad and insult us. Criticizing Islam or Muhammed is acceptable but not to do something that is not even allowed to us. It is like that we urinate your holy water and saying that it will not effect its purity because science proof that that urine will not mix with water. Criticize us but not insult us



Where did Charlie Hebdo "insult" your religion ?

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## My-Analogous

Gabriel92 said:


> Where did Charlie Hebdo "insult" your religion ?



To many Muslims, any image of the prophet Muhammad is sacrilegious
*Fatwa:*



All perfect praise be to Allaah, The Lord of the Worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah, and that Muhammad




is His slave and Messenger.


It is known that a photograph of the Prophet



does not exist so that his picture may be published based on it, or for someone to claim that a certain image is his picture. This is nothing but a lie and a blasphemy; *even if the purpose of publishing the picture is to glorify and honour him*. So how could the person who published his picture claim that it was the Prophet's



while he has not seen him.


If the purpose of publishing the picture is to mock and ridicule him



then this is disbelief, as he was Allaah's Messenger and the best and the last Prophet, so how can one mock him and ridicule him? Such an act [mocking and ridiculing] cannot be accepted even if it is regarding a noble or great personality in this world, so how can this be accepted for one of Allaah's Prophets, may Allaah exalt their mention, in whom hundreds of millions of people around the world believe as Allaah's Messenger?

Allaah Knows best.

BBC News - Charlie Hebdo: Muslim media anger at new cartoon

http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/a...e-of-the-prophet-sallallaahu-alayhi-wa-sallam

now see some more so called freedom of expression people

Lars Vilks Muhammad drawings controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gregorius Nekschot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Everybody Draw Mohammed Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So my question to you. Can you put Jesus (P.B.U.H) into a picture of animals?. May Allah forgive me and Jesus (P.B.U.H) is good man and a Prophet and i respect him like any thing.


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## TankMan

aakash_2410 said:


> Got them killed?


Incorrect. He ignored and forgave them.


aakash_2410 said:


> "The story relates the fate of Asma bint Marwan, a poet from the Prophet's home town of Mecca. After she had mocked Muhammad in her verses, he cried out, "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?" - and sure enough, that very night, she was killed by one of his followers in her own bed. The assassin, reporting back on what he had done, was thanked personally by the Prophet. "You have helped both God and His messenger!""
> 
> Source: Tom Holland a respected historian BBC News - Viewpoint: The roots of the battle for free speech


That story has been rejected by most Islamic scholars. It is from an old book of sayings and accounts regarding the Prophet, compiled by one scholar. This hadith also contradicts the Quran, meaning that It can not be authentic, as per the rules of Islamic jurisprudence.
If you're interested in more detail:
True Stories or Forgeries?Â The Killing of Abu 'Afak and Asma' bint Marwan?
Asma Bint Marwan: Did the Prophet order her killing? | aslamabdullah

What he really did:


> A group of Jews asked permission to visit the Prophet (and when they were admitted) t*hey said, *"As-Samu 'Alaika*(Death be upon you)." *I (Aisha) said (to them), "But death and the curse of Allah be upon you!" The Prophet said, "*O 'Aisha! Allah is kind and lenient and likes that one should be kind and lenient in all matters."*I (Aisha) said, "Haven't you heard what they said?" *He said, "I said (to them), 'Wa 'Alaikum (and upon you).*


(Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 61 - A sahih hadith, meaning its authenticity is undisputed)

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## ozzy22

@waz Why did you delete my lighthearted posts that weren’t offensive?


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## waz

Sorry the thread had many "contributors" who couldn't display basic civilty to one another.

The thread has seen in its time. 

Thank you to the folks who positively contributed.

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