# Indian Lt. Colonel among 11 soldiers dead in Fidayeen attack in Indian Occupied Kashmir



## Kompromat

*7 security personnel including Army officer killed in J&K terror attack

M Saleem Pandit,TNN | Dec 5, 2014, 01.14 PM IST

URI: At least seven security personnel including a lieutenant colonel and one assistant sub inspector of police were killed in a fidayeen attack launched by Pakistani infiltrators at 32-field regiment in Uri sector of Baramulla district in north Kashmir in the wee hours of Friday*.

Five terrorists have also been killed in the gunbattle. A senior Army officer who is commanding the operation against terrorists told TOI that the terrorists attacked the camp around 3am on Friday.

"The exact number of terrorists involved in the attack is not known. But the way these terrorists, believed to be from Pakistan, killed four security personnel on the road outside our Army camp makes us believe that they entered the camp from the gate through the road which is not made of concrete boundary."

The Army officer said, "One of our lieutenant colonels Sankalp Kumar of 24-Punjab regiment was killed in the exchange of fire besides three other soldiers. We have killed three terrorists so far and the operation against them is still going on."

The three soldiers killed in the gunbattle have been identified as AIS Mohammad Akbar Lone, head constable Abdul Majid and constable Sanjay Singh. The operation against terrorists is being led by two officers Lt Col Gurawah Jain and Lt Col Surinder Singh. The officers confirmed that the Pakistani infiltrators divided themselves into two groups. While one group entered the Army camp, other engaged the troops at the gate.

"The infiltrators used small arms and followed it with UBGL fire," the Army officer said.

The attack comes days ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to the state on December 8, where he is scheduled to address an election rally in Srinagar. Uri goes to polls on December 9. There has been no major incident of infiltration from Pakistani side in the area, except in the early 90s. The Srinagar-Muzaffarabad bus service and the trade between two parts of Kashmir are carried out through this point of LoC in Kashmir valley.

7 security personnel including Army officer killed in J&K terror attack - The Times of India

Low lives are already blaming Pakistan.

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## AsianLion

7 soldiers including Colonel , one assistant police inspector and 2 policemen, gone by indigenous Kashmirs.

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## Star Wars

Horus said:


> Low lives are already blaming Pakistan.



Who else should we blame ? How long will you people be completely oblivious to your wrong doings while fighting the same terror at home ?

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## Kompromat

AsianUnion said:


> 7 soldiers including Colonel , one assistant police inspector and 2 policemen, gone by indigenous Kashmirs.



They are Pakistanis you fool. India doesn't occupy Kashmir so how can Kashmiris fight against an Indian occupation that doesn't exist?

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## farhan_9909

If not the leaders,atleast the army official should respond if they blame us this time.

Jaise india main to saare dhood k dhule hai.

They are foolish enough to go on genocide in kashmir but doesn't expect a response

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## Star Wars

Horus said:


> They are Pakistanis you fool. India doesn't occupy Kashmir so how can Kashmiris fight against an Indian occupation that doesn't exist?



No they don't , especially when we have 70% voting in both phases.. Cry and whine all you want but as long as people like yourself stop supporting terrorists you people will continue suffering at home ground desperately hoping somehow to bleed India

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## Kompromat

farhan_9909 said:


> If not the leaders,atleast the army official should respond if they blame us this time.
> 
> Jaise india main to saare dhood k dhule hai.
> 
> They are foolish enough to go on genocide in kashmir but doesn't expect a response



Farhan they are literally feeding and believing their own propaganda. A little study of history will tell you what happens to countries which makes believes its population over propaganda that was actually meant for the enemy. This is actually beneficial for us.

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## punit

seems some cages are rattled violently due to high voter turnout. Now awaiting some actions at some other place due to different set of freedom fighters against a different occupier.


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## Kompromat

Star Wars said:


> No they don't , especially when we have 70% voting in both phases.. Cry and whine all you want but as long as people like yourself stop supporting terrorists you people will continue suffering at home ground desperately hoping somehow to bleed India



Says Indian media.

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## Kompromat

punit said:


> seems some cages are rattled violently due to high voter turnout. Now awaiting some actions at some other place due to different set of freedom fighters against a different occupier.



India doesn't have the right to conduct fake elections in an occupied territory nor there is any independent verification of the so called turn out.

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## Star Wars

Horus said:


> Says Indian media.



NO , says the election commission of India ... Media simply took them as source  IN fact they have higher voter turn out than most Indian states .

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## Bang Galore

Horus said:


> Says Indian media.



Read more. The whole world is saying it.

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## SamantK

Horus said:


> India doesn't have the right to conduct fake elections in an occupied territory nor there is any independent verification of the so called turn out.


 It has all the rights cause it is an Indian state.

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## Kompromat

Bang Galore said:


> Read more. The whole world is saying it.



Which international agencies were monitoring the so called election?

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## Donatello

Check out their reporting...

Killed by Pakistani infiltrators....

and then the next para says......'believed' to be Pakistani Infiltrators.

LOL.

Dumbest people on the planet.

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## punit

Horus said:


> India doesn't have the right to conduct fake elections in an occupied territory nor there is any independent verification of the so called turn out.



of course its fake. what else u were expecting. i am just waiting for some action.


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## Kompromat

SamantK said:


> It has all the rights cause it is an Indian state.



That is certainly what Indians think. Kashmir is not your state.

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## Star Wars

Horus said:


> India doesn't have the right to conduct fake elections in an occupied territory nor there is any independent verification of the so called turn out.



It doesn't become fake just because you wished it to become fake . J&K is part of India what the Pakistani state or its people says is irrelevant ...

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## SamantK

Horus said:


> That is certainly what Indians think. Kashmir is not your state.


 It is we have the accession of J&K no other country, its not a thinking its a fact.

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## farhan_9909

Horus said:


> Farhan they are literally feeding and believing their own propaganda. A little study of history will tell you what happens to countries which makes believes its population over propaganda that was actually meant for the enemy. This is actually beneficial for us.



For years,indians has blamed Pakistani leaders for fooling the public.But in reality it is them fooling the people with mentioning Pakistan after almost every terrorist attack in india.

Anyway as long as they doesn't acknowledged that fact that the enemies lives within them,they won't be able to overcome the problem.

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## Kompromat

Star Wars said:


> It doesn't become fake just because you wished it to become fake . J&K is part of India what the Pakistani state or its people says is irrelevant ...



You are free to live in a fallacy, however Kashmir is an internationally recognized disputed zone and as a legal belligerent, what we have to say has direct consequences for this dispute.

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## farhan_9909

Star Wars said:


> It doesn't become fake just because you wished it to become fake . J&K is part of India what the Pakistani state or its people says is irrelevant ...



General election in Kashmir turnout was less than 50% and now within months it surpassed 70%?how is it possible


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## Kompromat

farhan_9909 said:


> For years,indians has blamed Pakistani leaders for fooling the public.But in reality it is them fooling the people with mentioning Pakistan after almost every terrorist attack in india.
> 
> Anyway as long as they doesn't acknowledged that fact that the enemies lives within them,they won't be able to overcome the problem.



Indian model of propaganda is a copycat of Soviet Union which relies on mass brainwashing of population through media. We all know what happened to the Soviets when their empire collapsed and they found out that everything they were told was false.



SamantK said:


> It is we have the accession of J&K no other country, its not a thinking its a fact.



The so called accession is a bogus document, signed by an undemocratic Hindu Raja to a Hindu country at the expense of Muslim Kashmir.

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## pursuit of happiness

Horus said:


> *7 security personnel including Army officer killed in J&K terror attack
> 
> M Saleem Pandit,TNN | Dec 5, 2014, 01.14 PM IST
> 
> URI: At least seven security personnel including a lieutenant colonel and one assistant sub inspector of police were killed in a fidayeen attack launched by Pakistani infiltrators at 32-field regiment in Uri sector of Baramulla district in north Kashmir in the wee hours of Friday*.
> 
> Five terrorists have also been killed in the gunbattle. A senior Army officer who is commanding the operation against terrorists told TOI that the terrorists attacked the camp around 3am on Friday.
> 
> "The exact number of terrorists involved in the attack is not known. But the way these terrorists, believed to be from Pakistan, killed four security personnel on the road outside our Army camp makes us believe that they entered the camp from the gate through the road which is not made of concrete boundary."
> 
> The Army officer said, "One of our lieutenant colonels Sankalp Kumar of 24-Punjab regiment was killed in the exchange of fire besides three other soldiers. We have killed three terrorists so far and the operation against them is still going on."
> 
> The three soldiers killed in the gunbattle have been identified as AIS Mohammad Akbar Lone, head constable Abdul Majid and constable Sanjay Singh. The operation against terrorists is being led by two officers Lt Col Gurawah Jain and Lt Col Surinder Singh. The officers confirmed that the Pakistani infiltrators divided themselves into two groups. While one group entered the Army camp, other engaged the troops at the gate.
> 
> "The infiltrators used small arms and followed it with UBGL fire," the Army officer said.
> 
> The attack comes days ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to the state on December 8, where he is scheduled to address an election rally in Srinagar. Uri goes to polls on December 9. There has been no major incident of infiltration from Pakistani side in the area, except in the early 90s. The Srinagar-Muzaffarabad bus service and the trade between two parts of Kashmir are carried out through this point of LoC in Kashmir valley.
> 
> 7 security personnel including Army officer killed in J&K terror attack - The Times of India
> 
> Low lives are already blaming Pakistan.


--
RIP

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## Guynextdoor2

Horus said:


> They are Pakistanis you fool. India doesn't occupy Kashmir so how can Kashmiris fight against an Indian occupation that doesn't exist?


 
This is a pak attempt to disrupt the elections. Lame effort actually, you guys have lost the plot on Kashmir.

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## Star Wars

farhan_9909 said:


> General election in Kashmir turnout was less than 50% and now within months it surpassed 70%?how is it possible



Its the same all across India , 2009 elections only 46% voted, this time 65% voted


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## Kompromat

Guynextdoor2 said:


> This is a pak attempt to disrupt the elections. Lame effort actually, you guys have lost the plot on Kashmir.



Kashmiri resistance is taking back its rights

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## SamantK

Horus said:


> Indian model of propaganda is a copycat of Soviet Union which relies on mass brainwashing of population through media. We all know what happened to the Soviets when their empire collapsed and they found out that everything they were told was false.
> 
> 
> 
> The so called accession is a bogus document, signed by an undemocratic Hindu Raja to a Hindu country at the expense of Muslim Kashmir.


 Muslim Kashmir?

Only Pakistan says that the document is bogus. Religion was not considered for accession. You are wrong.

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## Kompromat

Star Wars said:


> Its the same all across India , 2009 elections only 46% voted, this time 65% voted



Oh the lies they feed you - Few and far between: security forces outnumber voters in Kashmir elections | World news | theguardian.com

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## hussain0216

Long live the resistance

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## Imran Khan

hence proved again this issue need to be solve on table


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## Kompromat

SamantK said:


> Muslim Kashmir?
> 
> Only Pakistan says that the document is bogus. Religion was not considered for accession. You are wrong.



Which other countries recognize Kashmir's so called accession to India based on a bogus document ?


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## Rafael

Indian media was ready to blame it on Pakistan when the first shot was fired.

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## Guynextdoor2

Horus said:


> Kashmiri resistance is taking back its rights


 
Yeah right, 80% turnout in elections, why won't pak be rattled to the bone? 8 out of 10 people in Kashmir care two hoots about the boycott call of 'separatists' who are now looking like clowns on the sidelines. Why would they do something to make the elections they are keen on to look disrupted? Sentiment in the valley is for the elections to move forward at all costs, only a few paid stooges from across the border try to disrupt it.

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## pursuit of happiness

Horus said:


> They are Pakistanis you fool. India doesn't occupy Kashmir so how can Kashmiris fight against an Indian occupation that doesn't exist?


--
did you laugh same way for balst on wagah or peshawar or karachi ?

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## SamantK

Horus said:


> Oh the lies they feed you - Few and far between: security forces outnumber voters in Kashmir elections | World news | theguardian.com


 From your link, the last paragraph sums it up

_"But 70-year-old Ghulam Qadir, who has voted in every election in Srinagar for more than four decades, was adamant that his duty was to "chose a government".
"Anyone who tells you not to vote is just jealous because they are not in power," he said, before walking carefully and slowly into polling booth 18 to become the 26th voter of the day."_

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## pursuit of happiness

Rafael said:


> Indian media was ready to blame it on Pakistan when the first shot was fired.


--
then terrosit will comr across the border via norway?

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## SamantK

Horus said:


> Which other countries recognize Kashmir's so called accession to India based on a bogus document ?


 UN.


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## Kompromat

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Yeah right, 80% turnout in elections, why won't pak be rattled to the bone? 8 out of 10 people in Kashmir care two hoots about the boycott call of 'separatists' who are now looking like clowns on the sidelines. Why would they do something to make the elections they are keen on to look disrupted? Sentiment in the valley is for the elections to move forward at all costs, only a few paid stooges from across the border try to disrupt it.



Hai Haq Hamara Azzadi, Ham Lay Ky Rahaingy Azzadi

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## Bang Galore

Horus said:


> Which international agencies were monitoring the so called election?



No agency needs to monitor. Unlike in Pakistan, no one questions the Indian Election Commission's figures. Not even the separatists have done that. If you remember on the other thread, even Mirwaiz Umar Farooq didn't question the figures & turnout, only said that it is reflective of people's aspiration etc... World over, everyone accepts the figures put out. Show me even a single comment from any country questioning the figures. Even the GoP has, thus far & to my knowledge, not questioned these figures and many Pakistani talk shows have alluded to the high percentage of participation. You are pretty much on your own here.

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## Star Wars

Horus said:


> Oh the lies they feed you - Few and far between: security forces outnumber voters in Kashmir elections | World news | theguardian.com



Did you read the the part of the sentence where i wrote "all across India " . God you people are delusional

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## Bratva

pursuit of happiness said:


> --
> did you laugh same way for balst on wagah or peshawar or karachi ?



Have you established the identities of attackers Or have you given thought this might be a revenge attack by those whose family members might have suffered fake encounters, tortures or rape by hands of Indian army ?

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## Kompromat

SamantK said:


> UN.



Instrument of Accession is a bogus document. 

India's False Claim on Kashmir
------------------------------

On October 28th 1993, Robin Raphel stated that Washington did not recognise
the Instrument of Accession to India as meaning that Kashmir is forever
more an integral part of India. She expressed the view that the whole of
Kashmir is disputed territory, the future status of which must be
determined in accordance with the wishes of the people of Kashmir.

The International Commission of Jurists (ICJ), based in Geneva, recently,
passed a resolution proclaiming Kashmir's accession to India as bogus and
null and void. The ICJ went further by condemning the human rights
violations in Kashmir.

These events serve to highlight the disputed status of Kashmir by focusing
on the fraudulent nature of the Instrument of Accession which was 'signed'
by the Mahrajah of Kashmir on 26th October 1947.

The Indians claim that the Instrument of Accession was signed by Mahrajah
Hari Singh on 26th October 1947, in which the Mahrajah agreed to accede to
India in return for military assistance to put down the popular rebellion
against him, seen at that time as an invasion by tribesmen from
neighbouring Pakistan. The details of the accession were worked out between
the Kashmiri Prime Minister, MC Mahajan and the Indian official, VP Menon,
in Dehli. However, there are serious doubts about the signing of the
document. Alastair Lamb (in his book, Kashmir - A disputed legacy 1846-
1990) points out that the Instrument of Accession could not have been
signed by the Mahrajah on 26th October as he was travelling by road to
Jammu (a distance of over 350 Km). There is no evidence to suggest that a
meeting or communication of any kind took place on 26th October 1947. In
fact it was on 27th October 1947 that the Mahrajah was informed by his MC
Mahajan and VP Menon (who had flown into Srinagar), the the Instrument of
Accession had already been negotiated in Dehli. The Mahrajah did not in
fact sign the Instrument of Accession, if at all, until 27th October 1947.
This sheds doubts on the actions of the Indian regime. Some Indian troops
had already arrived and secured Srinagar airfield during the middle of
October 1947. On 26th October 1947, a further massive airlift brought
thousands of Indian troops to Kashmir - BEFORE the signing of the
Accession. Therefore, this situation begs the question: would the Mahrajah
have signed the Instrument of Accession had the Indian troops not been on
Kashmiri soil?

No satisfactory original of the Instrument of Accession has ever been
produced in an international forum; a published form has always been shown.
Further, the document was not presented to Pakistan or to the UN. In the
summer of 1995, the Indian authorities reported the original document as
lost or stolen. This sheds further doubt on whether the Mahrajah actually
signed the Instrument of Accession.

The Governor-General of India at the time, Lord Mountbatten, stipulated
that the permanent accession of Kashmir to the Indian Union will only be
accepted once the people of Kashmir had been consulted. He noted in a
letter to the Mahrajah, "the question of the states's accession should be
settled by a reference to the people". Furthermore, when the Kashmir crisis
broke out in October 1947, the principle of reference to the people through
plebiscite was already established as similar disputes in some other states
had been resolved this way. The Indian Prime Minister J Nehru, accepted
this principle and reiterated his position in a letter to the British Prime
Minister on 25th October 1947, "our view, which we have repeatedly made
public, is that the question of accession in any disputed territory must be
decided in accordance with the wishes of the people and we adhere to this
view". Therefore, at the time of the so-called accession, the Indian regime
accepted the principle of reference to the people. Based on this principle,
the Instrument of Accession should have been provisional and conditional
upon the outcome of a plebiscite.

When India took the Kashmir issue to the UN in 1948, it did so under
article 35 of Chapter VI which outlines the means for a peaceful settlement
of disputes. It is interesting to note here that India did not present the
Kashmir case under the UN Chapter VII which relates to acts of aggression
as India was alleging Pakistan. Therefore, it is evident that by raising
the issue under Chapter VI, India recognised the Kashmir issue as a
dispute, thus conceding that the Instrument of Accession had not confirmed
the state to be an integral part of India. India is still party to all the
UN resolutions on Kashmir. Moreover, India and Pakistan accepted the UN
resolutions of January 1948 calling for a plebiscite in Kashmir to exercise
the right of self-determination of the people of Kashmir. India's
acceptance of the UN resolutions establishes beyond a doubt, that the
future of status of Kashmir would be determined by its people. Therefore,
the Instrument of Accession, even if genuine, is rendered null and void.

In the past, attempts to hold a plebiscite have been met with fierce
opposition from India. India has known, right from the start, that the
result of a plebiscite is a foregone conclusion - the population of Kashmir
would have voted to rid themselves of Indian rule. This has been the case
from 26th October 1947 to the present day. On the practicality of holding a
plebiscite, a paper by the US state department, presented to the UN on 2nd
December 1947, noted , "the dominion of India may attempt to establish the
extant electoral rolls on the basis for the referendum. As these rolls are
said to contain less than 7% of the population and were compiled on a basis
which served the weight to the members of the wealthiest educated Hindu
majority who would obviously vote for accession to India, it is important
that the electoral body should in fact be composed on a basis of complete
adult suffrage in order that the result of the referendum may be
representative of the actual wishes of the people of Kashmir".

In view of the above arguments, it is clear that the Indian case on Kashmir
is politically, legally and morally unjustified. The commitment made by
India and the UN to allow the people of the state to choose their own
future are neither time bound nor do they provide an escape clause for the
Indian regime. It is only through fraud and repression that India continues
to forcefully occupy a large portion of Kashmir.

The Instrument of Accession & The Indian Claims to Kashmir

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## pursuit of happiness

farhan_9909 said:


> If not the leaders,atleast the army official should respond if they blame us this time.
> 
> Jaise india main to saare dhood k dhule hai.
> 
> They are foolish enough to go on genocide in kashmir but doesn't expect a response


---
can you elaborate please


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## Guynextdoor2

Horus said:


> Hai Haq Hamara Azzadi, Ham Lay Ky Rahaingy Azzadi


 
Aake Lele, we're waiting....

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## Kompromat

Bang Galore said:


> No agency needs to monitor. Unlike in Pakistan, no one questions the Indian Election Commission's figures. Not even the separatists have done that. If you remember on the other thread, even Mirwaiz Umar Farooq didn't question the figures & turnout, only said that it is reflective of people's aspiration etc... World over, everyone accepts the figures put out. Show me even a single comment from any country questioning the figures. Even the GoP has, thus far & to my knowledge, not questioned these figures and many Pakistani talk shows have alluded to the high percentage of participation. You are pretty much on your own here.



If there is no independent monitoring, the results and statistics are fraudulent from our perspective.



Guynextdoor2 said:


> Aake Lele, we're waiting....



Aj aye to hain or aatay rahaingy

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## pursuit of happiness

Bratva said:


> Have you established the identities of attackers Or have you given thought this might be a revenge attack by those whose family members might have suffered fake encounters, tortures or rape by hands of Indian army ?


---
one side you guys say 7laksh army in kashmri 
then you say kashmris taking revege with fully armed machine guns .. is it logical ? 
--
Torture and rape..
its old story dear.. 
just another enocutre in srinagar.. while seach ops in house.. 
so do you thihk slodires give lolipop and ask where is gun .. tell .. tell..
brutalities happneds .. i enver said we are holy cow .. but why .. due to these terrosit IA have to be tuff ofdefence..
--
may i know how you handle zarb..
shall we vacant vally for ops .. shall we .. like you did ?


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## Kompromat

pursuit of happiness said:


> --
> did you laugh same way for balst on wagah or peshawar or karachi ?



Kashmiri rebels are freedom fighters, fighting for their homeland's freedom from an occupation force. Their struggle is legitimate, legal and morally righteous just like Indians rebelled against the British empire.

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## Guynextdoor2

Horus said:


> If there is no independent monitoring, the results and statistics are fraudulent from our perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> Aj aye to hain or aatay rahaingy


 
Your 'perspective', in your country you can't hold a single election that anyone ever agrees upon. How you get such wise perspectives I do not understand. The litmus test is that no matter what you guys say, the people of Kashmir don't dispute anything we say- when Omar Abdullah was declared CM, they didn't say 'we won't accept him' or that the 'election was rigged'. Same gonna happen this time too. You guys'll keep recycling same dialog, no one in valley cares.

BTW did you know that Hafiz Saeed has been nick named chief Pak population controller in India?

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## Bratva

pursuit of happiness said:


> ---
> 
> *shall we vacant vally for ops .. shall we .. like you did* ?



and 2010 protests in Kashmir valley were also done by Pakistani infiltrators

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## SamantK

Horus said:


> The International Commission of Jurists (ICJ), based in Geneva, recently,
> passed a resolution proclaiming Kashmir's accession to India as bogus and
> null and void. The ICJ went further by condemning the human rights
> violations in Kashmir.


 
ICJ 

The competent authority to nullify our claim is International Court of Justice. ICJ can take a hike.



Horus said:


> In view of the above arguments, it is clear that the Indian case on Kashmir
> is politically, legally and morally unjustified. The commitment made by
> India and the UN to allow the people of the state to choose their own
> future are neither time bound nor do they provide an escape clause for the
> Indian regime. It is only through fraud and repression that India continues
> to forcefully occupy a large portion of Kashmir.


 
India made a commitment if the conditions are met it will conduct a plebiscite, the conditions are not met hence the Plebiscite will not take place. Cause and Effect. Legally.
Also, the UN call for plebiscite was a resolution not a legal binding.

But you do not have to go so back, go to Shimla Agreement which essentially nullifies any third party in this matter.

You need to read more


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## Kompromat

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Your 'perspective', in your country you can't hold a single election that anyone ever agrees upon. How you get such wise perspectives I do not understand. The litmus test is that no matter what you guys say, the people of Kashmir don't dispute anything we say- when Omar Abdullah was declared CM, they didn't say 'we won't accept him' or that the 'election was rigged'. Same gonna happen this time too. You guys'll keep recycling same dialog, no one in valley cares.
> 
> BTW did you know that Hafiz Saeed has been nick named chief Pak population controller in India?



Now lets see what you think of Omar Abdullah in 3,2,1,0 seconds.

Kashmir 'NEVER Merged' with India | CM Omar Abdullah

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## pursuit of happiness

Bratva said:


> and 2010 protests in Kashmir valley were also done by Pakistani infiltrators


--
yes.. ou are right
i said before we are not holy cow.. 
we made msitake but that does nto give right to pak to send terrorist



Horus said:


> Now lets see what you think of Omar Abdullah in 3,2,1,0 seconds.
> 
> Kashmir 'NEVER Merged' with India | CM Omar Abdullah


--
if you belive so musch on Omar then belive this too 
'Militant attack on army desperate attempt to disrupt peace', says Jammu and Kashmir CM Omar Abdullah | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

because of terrosiam kashmir still lags behind and coudl not intergtre FULLLy wiht india

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## Guynextdoor2

Horus said:


> Now lets see what you think of Omar Abdullah in 3,2,1,0 seconds.
> 
> Kashmir 'NEVER Merged' with India | CM Omar Abdullah


 
If your intention is to dream of 'liberation' on the basis of this statement, I'd ask you to stock up on lots of pot. You'd need big supplies of that to keep your 'dream' alive


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## punit

Horus said:


> Kashmiri rebels are freedom fighters, fighting for their homeland's freedom from an occupation force. Their struggle is legitimate, legal and morally righteous just like Indians rebelled against the British empire.



Kashmir freedom fighters ke alawa freedom fighters aur bhi hain !! Abhi ishq ke imtehan aur bhi hain!

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## pursuit of happiness

Horus said:


> Kashmiri rebels are freedom fighters, fighting for their homeland's freedom from an occupation force. Their struggle is legitimate, legal and morally righteous just like Indians rebelled against the British empire.


---
how therir struggle in legitimate?
source of auhotirya nd legitimacy ?


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## Kompromat

pursuit of happiness said:


> ---
> how therir struggle in legitimate?
> source of auhotirya nd legitimacy ?



Geneva convention gives right to people of occupied lands to take up arms if they want to.



punit said:


> Kashmir freedom fighters ke alawa freedom fighters aur bhi hain !! Abhi ishq ke imtehan aur bhi hain!



We are not worried about the red corridor or Sikhs. You can do whatever you want over there. None of our business.

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## pursuit of happiness

Horus said:


> Geneva convention gives right to people of occupied lands to take up arms if they want to.
> 
> 
> 
> We are not worried about the red corridor or Sikhs. You can do whatever you want over there. None of our business.


--
Dear i asked same question last time ..
which artcile or clause of genva concevtion give lgtimacy to it..
you still not given the same 
waiting for same


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## Areesh

Hey....I am back. And that too at some interesting moment. 

OK the latest death toll of security forces is *10*. *8 *army personnel including a LT Col and *2 *policemen.

*4 *soldiers burnt alive after their barricade was set on fire by the attackers.

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## Kompromat

pursuit of happiness said:


> --
> Dear i asked same question last time ..
> which artcile or clause of genva concevtion give lgtimacy to it..
> you still not given the same
> waiting for same



"Both the 4th Geneva Convention and the United Nations Charter affirm the right of occupied people to employ armed struggle against military targets."



Areesh said:


> Hey....I am back. And that too at some interesting moment.
> 
> OK the latest death toll of security forces is *10*. *8 *army personnel including a LT Col and *2 *policemen.
> 
> *4 *soldiers burnt alive after their barricade was set on fire by the attackers.



Source?


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## Areesh

Horus said:


> "Both the 4th Geneva Convention and the United Nations Charter affirm the right of occupied people to employ armed struggle against military targets."
> 
> 
> 
> Source?



Indian journalists on Twitter.

And I quote:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/540796864971304960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/540805778353815552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/540806899612921856
Other than this attack in Uri there are 3 other attacks in different parts of Indian occupied Kashmir just today. 1 militant killed in Srinagar.

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## PlanetWarrior

Horus said:


> If there is no independent monitoring, the results and statistics are fraudulent from our perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> Aj aye to hain or aatay rahaingy





There are various independent foreign observors at the Kashmir elections. The fact remains that the EC of India is now internationally recognized as a legit body which does not interfere unlawfully in the electoral process. Once an electoral body is recognized as such, this removes the need for foreign involvement. As I mentioned earlier however, various independent organizations such as Sweden's Democratic Promotion Group are monitoring the elections in Kashmir. Hope that clears your doubts
On the one hand you allude to government manipulation of the polls and on the other you claim that there could never be a high voter turnout as widely reported. The current government of India is controlled by the BJP party which is labelled a Hindu nationalist party. It would not serve the BJP' interest for a high poll turnout. Jammu & Kashmir is a majority Muslim state. A lower poll turnout would mean a better chance for the BJP since the minority Hindu population could sweep the BJP into power in that state. Hope that clears your doubts there as well
As an Administrator on this forum I suggest that you maintain the quality of this forum by making factual and not emotional statements. Leave the latter for emotional junior members of your forum. When they rant and rave, we tend to ignore or laugh at their attitude. When you do so, it makes us question the thinking of people from your native country. No offense intended.

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## Kompromat

Indian media is reporting 11 security forces KIA.


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## Areesh

Horus said:


> Indian media is reporting 11 security forces KIA.



Yup 8 army men, 3 policemen.


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## punit

Horus said:


> Geneva convention gives right to people of occupied lands to take up arms if they want to.
> 
> 
> 
> We are not worried about the red corridor or* Sikhs.* You can do whatever you want over there. None of our business.


how cute .. !! tried and failed miserably. anyway as i said abhi ishq ke imtehan aur bhi hain !


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## ares

Horus said:


> Geneva convention gives right to people of occupied lands to take up arms if they want to.
> 
> 
> 
> We are not worried about the red corridor or Sikhs. You can do whatever you want over there. None of our business.



Occupied Land!!??

When did UN or for that matter any other nation classify Kashmir as occupied land??

The only nation occupying Kashmiri land is Pakistan..*India presence in kashmir can be at least accounted by her having document of accession to kashmir(regardless of whether you accept it or not)...what does Pakistan have to prove that Kashmir legally belongs to it?? 

Give us a name of just one document, which would hold in court of law and prove that Kashmir belongs to Pakistan!! *

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## Bang Galore

Horus said:


> If there is no independent monitoring, the results and statistics are fraudulent from our perspective.



Your perspective is irrelevant. Pakistan wants to internationlize Kashmir, this has made the job very, very, very hard.



Horus said:


> On October 28th 1993, Robin Raphel stated that Washington did not recognise
> the Instrument of Accession to India as meaning that Kashmir is forever
> more an integral part of India. She expressed the view that the whole of
> Kashmir is disputed territory, the future status of which must be
> determined in accordance with the wishes of the people of Kashmir.



Unless you have been sleeping, Robin Raphel is history & will be lucky not to serve jail time. U.S. policy has long moved on and there is no relevance to her comments. Or for that matter, her.

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## Areesh

ares said:


> Occupied Land!!??
> 
> When did UN or for that matter any other nation classify Kashmir as occupied land??
> 
> The only nation occupying Kashmiri land is Pakistan..*India presence in kashmir can be at least accounted by her having document of accession to kashmir(regardless of whether you accept it or not)...what does Pakistan have to prove that Kashmir legally belongs to it??
> 
> Give us a name of just one document, which would hold in court of law and prove that Kashmir belongs to Pakistan!! *



I don't think you understand the perspective/position of Pakistan on Kashmir issue or else you wouldn't be asking @Horus to show documents.


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## Donatello

Time for India to do some surgery in Pakistan.


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## RAMPAGE

Allah ho Akbar!

Kashmir banay ga Pakistan.

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## Guynextdoor2

Areesh said:


> Hey....I am back. And that too at some interesting moment.
> 
> OK the latest death toll of security forces is *10*. *8 *army personnel including a LT Col and *2 *policemen.
> 
> *4 *soldiers burnt alive after their barricade was set on fire by the attackers.


 
You seem happy. Happiness is what leads to retaliation.



RAMPAGE said:


> Allah ho Akbar!
> 
> Kashmir banay ga Pakistan.


 
Balochistan wagerah ke bare me soch lo before you make some comments. Lene ke dene na pad jayein.

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## Star Wars

.Pakistanis Orgasming at the death of Indian Soldiers


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## Areesh

Guynextdoor2 said:


> You seem happy. Happiness is what leads to retaliation.



You seem to have knowledge of unseen. Good.


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## Mav3rick

Star Wars said:


> No they don't , especially when we have 70% voting in both phases.. Cry and whine all you want but as long as people like yourself stop supporting terrorists you people will continue suffering at home ground desperately hoping somehow to bleed India



Do it under international observation and presence and we will believe you, otherwise it is as good as PPPs mandate in Sindh and PML(N)s mandate in Pakistan!


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## SarthakGanguly

Bang Galore said:


> Read more. The whole world is saying it.


Rest in Peace to the Indian soldiers defending our nation.

This was coming. There were regular attempts.

i. Most infiltration attempts have been foiled at the LOC itself.

ii. The Hurriyat is demoralized after the poll debacle when for the first time 80% of the people did not care what they said.

iii. The separatists of all hues accepted the changed situation. Some have even joined the electorial process, few even the BJP.

iv. Now the loss of 'strategic assets' like these was too much. So started border skirmishes and breaking ceasefire, slipping in yahoos. etc

v. After all regular mujaheedin attacks failed, the final and most desperate move - the suicide bombing fedayeen was employed as a last resort to disturb the peace and sow the seeds of fear in the minds of young Kashmiris who want a better life for their future.

In happened like this -
In 1947 Pakistan lost Kashmir (the Maharajah would have joined Pakistan for some conditions that India refused to provide).
In 1965 Pakistan lost the moral ground that they want to take it peacefully.
In 1999 Pakistan lost the right to Kashmir.
In 2014 Pakistan lost everything in Kashmir.

Pakistan appears more and more to be an aberration in the annals of history that Time fixes automatically as it progresses. Even amidst sectarian killings, full fledged official civil war, political turbulence for decades, the establishment tries to focus all attention to the eternal bogey of Hindu India to unite the State as a last ditch attempt. If things were that easy, India and Nepal would have been one country and all Arab states another. States created on the premise of fear(of Hindus/Hindu domination) will most likely collapse(or is collapsing for years now) due to the fear it cultivates.

That said, as I stated before, this is a part of a pattern. Also 16th December is coming, hence the insecurities of an obsessed state is bound to manifest in acts like these. After December, they will most like calm down for a few months. Such is the irrationality of the _entire 'masla'. _

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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> Rest in Peace to the Indian soldiers defending our nation.
> 
> This was coming. There were regular attempts.
> 
> i. Most infiltration attempts have been foiled at the LOC itself.
> 
> ii. The Hurriyat is demoralized after the poll debacle when for the first time 80% of the people did not care what they said.
> 
> iii. The separatists of all hues accepted the changed situation. Some have even joined the electorial process, few even the BJP.
> 
> iv. Now the loss of 'strategic assets' like these was too much. So started border skirmishes and breaking ceasefire, slipping in yahoos. etc
> 
> v. After all regular mujaheedin attacks failed, the final and most desperate move - the suicide bombing fedayeen was employed as a last resort to disturb the peace and sow the seeds of fear in the minds of young Kashmiris who want a better life for their future.
> 
> In happened like this -
> In 1947 Pakistan lost Kashmir (the Maharajah would have joined Pakistan for some conditions that India refused to provide).
> In 1965 Pakistan lost the moral ground that they want to take it peacefully.
> In 1999 Pakistan lost the right to Kashmir.
> In 2014 Pakistan lost everything in Kashmir.
> 
> Pakistan appears more and more to be an aberration in the annals of history that Time fixes automatically as it progresses. Even amidst sectarian killings, full fledged official civil war, political turbulence for decades, the establishment tries to focus all attention to the eternal bogey of Hindu India to unite the State as a last ditch attempt. If things were that easy, India and Nepal would have been one country and all Arab states another. States created on the premise of fear(of Hindus/Hindu domination) will most likely collapse(or is collapsing for years now) due to the fear it cultivates.
> 
> That said, as I stated before, this is a part of a pattern. Also 16th December is coming, hence the insecurities of an obsessed state is bound to manifest in acts like these. After December, they will most like calm down for a few months. Such is the irrationality of the _entire 'masla'. _



Cute delusional post like always. Lengthy but delusional.

Unfortunately not every Indian is delusional on Kashmir like you and other Indians on this forum. Here is one who unfortunately still wants to live in some sort of real world unlike you. 

Kashmir rejects separatists? They are only 'half a Machil' away - Hindustan Times

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## Dash

Try harder.


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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> Cute delusional post like always. Lengthy but delusional.
> 
> Unfortunately not every Indian is delusional on Kashmir like you and other Indians on this forum. Here is one who unfortunately still wants to live in some sort of real world unlike you.
> 
> Kashmir rejects separatists? They are only 'half a Machil' away - Hindustan Times


When did I say they don't exist?

Educated and affluent Muslims from Kerala or Mumbai are leaving their jobs and joining ISIS to support their fellow Muslims and commit crimes against humanity. What do I expect from most of Srinagar's Muslims who used to throw stones at the Kheer Bhawani temple for sport in the 90s? While 71% did vote, it is also true that 29% did not. That is quite a substantial number. Only problem is that the single minded hatred for non Muslims and India is wavering. The hypnotic and total affection for Islamist murderers like Bitta Karate is waning.

Srinagar remains a separatist hotbed, as I have always mentioned. The Mosques(I still visit them when I am there) openly preach all sorts of things. Even today the Shia processions that take place in all of India are banned in only Srinagar, so we can safely forget about other non Muslims.



Star Wars said:


> .Pakistanis Orgasming at the death of Indian Soldiers


What is unnatural about it? The pre-partition generation of Pakistani Officer Corps is gone. They also hated us, but at least were Professional and had some courtesy. What exists now provides incentives to bring amputated heads of Indian soldiers as trophies.

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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> When did I say they don't exist?
> 
> Educated and affluent Muslims from Kerala or Mumbai are leaving their jobs and joining ISIS to support their fellow Muslims and commit crimes against humanity. What do I expect from most of Srinagar's Muslims who used to throw stones at the Kheer Bhawani temple for sport in the 90s? While 71% did vote, it is also true that 29% did not. That is quite a substantial number. Only problem is that the single minded hatred for non Muslims and India is wavering. The hypnotic and total affection for Islamist murderers like Bitta Karate is waning.
> 
> Srinagar remains a separatist hotbed, as I have always mentioned. The Mosques(I still visit them when I am there) openly preach all sorts of things. Even today the Shia processions that take place in all of India are banned in only Srinagar, so we can safely forget about other non Muslims.



Humm let me correct you again. While 29% didn't vote, the remaining 71% who did vote don't do it out of love for the republic of India.They voted to get their civic and local problems solved. For some sort of development and to keep BJP out of the valley. Not because they are going to sing Jana Gana Mana on 15 Aug next year on the roads and streets of Srinagar as Indians normally think.

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## Abingdonboy

Horus said:


> They are Pakistanis you fool. India doesn't occupy Kashmir so how can Kashmiris fight against an Indian occupation that doesn't exist?


And if some of these terrorists are found to come from Pakistan Punjab (which happens all too often) will you claim Punjab is part of Kashmir too?

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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> Humm let me correct you again. While 29% didn't vote, the remaining 71% who did vote don't do it out of love for the republic of India.They voted to get their civic and local problems solved. For some sort of development and to keep BJP out of the valley. Not because they are going to sing Jana Gana Mana on 15 Aug next year on the roads and streets of Srinagar as Indians normally think.


Of course. Sorry missed that out. A chunk of the Valley's Muslim vote was polled only to avoid the Hindus from coming back to the Valley that they cleared. I know that as I never left the valley. But the numbers of those who hate India is coming down. Hindu hatred and Shia hatred in Srinagar remains high. Elsewhere, in the villages, the people are far less radical, more neutral to non Muslims.

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## Abingdonboy

Horus said:


> Farhan they are literally feeding and believing their own propaganda. A little study of history will tell you what happens to countries which makes believes its population over propaganda that was actually meant for the enemy. This is actually beneficial for us.


Coming from a Pakistani who entirely rejects the notion their nation is engaged in any form of state sponsored terrorism, just wow.



Horus said:


> "Both the 4th Geneva Convention and the United Nations Charter affirm the right of occupied people to employ armed struggle against military targets."


Let's ignore the fact that is was Pakistani "tribals" (read into that whatever you want) pushed into Kashmir after Partition seizing territory as they went and it was against this backdrop the then ruler of Kashmir (the only person with legal authority to decide the fate of his state as per the rules set out in Partition) called for the Indian Army's help to repel these occupiers. 


Pakistan's legal claims on Kashmir are as weak as your argument that Indian elections are anything but fair and transparent.

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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> Of course. Sorry missed that out. A chunk of the Valley's Muslim vote was polled only to avoid the Hindus from coming back to the Valley that they cleared. I know that as I never left the valley. But the numbers of those who hate India is coming down. Hindu hatred and Shia hatred in Srinagar remains high. Elsewhere, in the villages, the people are far less radical, more neutral to non Muslims.



Radical or no radical. There are only a very few who consider Kashmir as legal and integral part of India like Mumbai or Chennai. For most of them this is just a temporary setup where they have to live with India. And that includes your CM omar abdullah too.


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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> Radical or no radical. There are only a very few who consider Kashmir as legal and integral part of India like Mumbai or Chennai. For most of them this is just a temporary setup where they have to live with India. And that includes your CM omar abdullah too.


Nope. If you want to get fooled by Horus, I don't mind. But Omar is hard core Indian and practically a Sikh. He goes to Gurudwaras etc and often ridiculed as a Sikh openly in the Valley. Please talk to the people in the Valley, the world is open. And the hatred (I estimate 40% of the population) they have is not for India but for Hinduism. If India was an Islamic mulk, 99% would not have felt bad staying in India. You don't stay here, so you don't know.

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## Indo-guy

17 killed as Pakistan-backed militants unleash terror in Kashmir - The Times of India

SRINAGAR: After two weeks of enthusiasm over an exceptionally high voter turnout in the two phases of the ongoing assembly elections, terrorists struck at four different places across the Kashmir valley on Friday, killing over 11 security forces including a lieutenant colonel.Six terrorists have been killed in retaliation at two places, official sources said
Two days ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's scheduled public rally in the summer capital, six to seven terrorists attacked an Army camp at Mohra, Uri in Baramulla district, over 100km from Srinagar, in the wee hours of Friday killing seven soldiers and three cops including an assistant sub-inspector (ASI). Five of the terrorists were killed in retaliation by the troops. Uri is close to the line of control (LoC) between India and Pakistan.
In Ahmad Nagar in Soura, Srinagar district, terrorists traveling in a car opened fire on police during a routine check. A terrorist was killed when police retaliated while another took refuge in a residential house. Police and paramilitary forces cordoned off the house and an encounter has ensued.
Over 50km from Srinagar, in Shopian, a hand grenade attack on a police station shattered the window panes of the DSP's residential quarter. There were however, no casualties.
The attack on the 32 Field Regiment in Uri sector of Barmulla district in north Kashmir killed at least 14 people including a lieutenant colonel, assistant sub-inspector of police and five Pakistani terrorists.
Speaking on the condition anonymity, a senior Army officer commanding the operation confirmed to TOI that it was a "fidayeen" (suicide) attack. "The exact number of terrorists is not known but they are believed to be Pakistanis. They killed three police men on the road outside our Army camp, ASI Mohammad Akbar Lone, head constable Abdul Majid and constable Sanjay Koul. We believe they entered the camp from the gate through the road which lacks a concrete boundary," he said.
"Lt Colonel Sankalp Kumar of 24 Punjab Regiment of Raipur was also killed in the exchange of fire besides three other soldiers. We have killed five terrorists so far and a combing operation is underway for the remaining fidayeen," he added.
The infiltrators were divided into two groups with one group entering the Army camp and the other engaging the troops at the gate. The officer said that the operation is headed by Lt Col Gurawah Jain and Lt Col Surinder Singh.
According to the officer, the infiltrators were clad in kameez-salwar (ethnic tunic-trousers) and armed with AK-47 rifles and hand grenades. He said SHO of Uri police station Latif Durrani was also injured. "Though the firing has stopped, a few fidayeen could still be holed-up inside the camp," he added.
The attack comes just days ahead of PM Modi's December 8 visit when he is scheduled to address an election rally in Srinagar. The third phase of assembly elections are under way in the state with Uri and Baramulla district going to polls on December 9.
This section of the LoC is significant for being the transit point for the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad bus service and trading between two parts of Kashmir. No infiltration has occurred here since the early 90s.


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## Guynextdoor2

Mav3rick said:


> Do it under international observation and presence and we will believe you, otherwise it is as good as PPPs mandate in Sindh and PML(N)s mandate in Pakistan!


 
We aren't inetersted in your 'belief'. If the people of Kashmir havea problem they'll protest when the CM takes oath. As for you....paraye ke shaadi mein awaraa begana.

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## Mr Ak47

we should be cautious in our response. All this is being done to spoil the poll atmosphere in kashmir , right now our focus should be on successful elections. Once we are done with that we can respond to these cowards .


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## Abingdonboy

Ask yourselves why these scumbag terrorists are doing this now? And it becomes clear their masters are TERRIFIED. Their appeal amongst Kashmirs has been dwindling for a long time now and whilst they've had short-lived upsurges in support it is now at an all time low. These current set of elections could deliver the terminal blow to them if a BJP government comes in and this BJP govt would not only be tough on terror but, crucially, would develop the state beyond all imagination. This would once and for all end the already isolated separatist movement and those groups who support them across the border. Once Kashmir is as developed mainland India there game is over.

This really is a last ditch effort by these scum to disrupt the legitimate democratic process.


It's pathetic that members of a certain nationality here claim to stand with their "Kashmiri brothers" and refuse to accept the actions that over *71%* of them i.e. participating in fair and free elections.

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## Indo-guy

a


Mr Ak47 said:


> we should be cautious in our response. All this is being done to spoil the poll atmosphere in kashmir , right now our focus should be on successful elections. Once we are done with that we can respond to these cowards .



People in Islamabad got scared with massive turn out , that's why this operation has been launched . This was only expected .

this is just to spoil the electroral process .


Pakistan has lost the plot in Kashmir vis a vis India .

and it is unable to digest it .

This will only turn people of kashmir against militancy .

Tide has turned already ....

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## Mr Ak47

Indo-guy said:


> People in Islamabad got scared with maasive turn out .
> 
> this is just to spoil the electroral process .
> 
> 
> Pakistan has lost the plot in India .



its about time mate..they are already loosing the battle

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## Indo-guy

Mr Ak47 said:


> its about time mate..they are already loosing the battle



Expect more vicious attacks .

we have to be very vigilant now ...


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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> Nope. If you want to get fooled by Horus, I don't mind. But Omar is hard core Indian and practically a Sikh. He goes to Gurudwaras etc and often ridiculed as a Sikh openly in the Valley. Please talk to the people in the Valley, the world is open. And the hatred (I estimate 40% of the population) they have is not for India but for Hinduism. If India was an Islamic mulk, 99% would not have felt bad staying in India. You don't stay here, so you don't know.



It is only you guys who are fooled on Kashmir issue. Not us.

For "hard core" Indian Kashmir's accession to India is conditional and is linked with article 370. You remove article 370. Bye bye accession 

Omar Abdullah reiterates his stand on accession, calls its conditional - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site

I might not be living in occupied Kashmir but I have friends on internet who are from Indian occupied Kashmir.


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## Mr Ak47

Indo-guy said:


> Expect more vicious attacks .
> 
> we have to be very vigilant now ...




not only vigilant but we will also give them a befitting reply once we are done with these polls.


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## Mav3rick

Guynextdoor2 said:


> We aren't inetersted in your 'belief'. If the people of Kashmir havea problem they'll protest when the CM takes oath. As for you....paraye ke shaadi mein awaraa begana.



There are many problems with your assumption. First off, it is not your land, it is something that you have occupied illegally. And from therein stems all your problems. Apparently the people of Kashmir have a problem with you, hopefully they will make you realize soon enough.


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## Stealth

*Reality*

Indian Forces doing with Kashmiris 

Kashmiri retaliate and do with Indian Cricket pad Army 

Indian Govt Reaction  (Behind) 

Indian Media reaction   (behind)  (ISI) 

Indian Public become   (ISI)

Pakistani Public   

at the End Kashmiris

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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> It is only you guys who are fooled on Kashmir issue. Not us.
> 
> For "hard core" Indian Kashmir's accession to India is conditional and is linked with article 370. You remove article 370. Bye bye accession
> 
> Omar Abdullah reiterates his stand on accession, calls its conditional - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site
> 
> I might not be living in occupied Kashmir but I have friends on internet who are from Indian occupied Kashmir.


I am absolutely not fooled at all.

See this is election time. Omar is going to lose. This is his last try to gain as much votes as he can. Even then he shouts only for autonomy.  The ground realities are very different.


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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> I am absolutely not fooled at all.
> 
> See this is election time. Omar is going to lose. This is his last try to gain as much votes as he can. Even then he shouts only for autonomy.  The ground realities are very different.



Election time??? So much for "hard core Indian".

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

While the violence is tragic, alleging that the attackers were "Pakistan backed", with the violence continuing as we speak, is at best irresponsible, and at worst just a continuation of the poisonous anti-Pakistan hate-mongering propaganda promulgated by Modi and his BJP "elephant head transplanting ancient Indian" idiots to brainwash even more Indians.

And on the issue of the allegation that these militants are "Pakistan backed", if the Indians actually believe it is true, then it clearly points out the fact that Modi, his BJP leadership and all those "military sources" ranting in the media as having "inflicted massive losses on Pakistani forces during the Indian ceasefire violations" and "we gave Pakistan a jaw breaking response" etc. etc. were talking out of their rear-ends.

Either way, Modi and the military establishment are taking the Indian public for a ride and consider them fools that will keep buying their nonsensical propaganda. Indians should have gotten a clue from the "ancient Indians had cosmic weapons, space travel, plastic surgery" etc. nonsense spouted by Modi, that the Modi government would have no problems in living in a fantasy world and distorting the truth.

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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> Election time??? So much for "hard core Indian".


A politicians primary allegiance is always to the kursi. Well, almost. Omar is no exception.  He mentions 'pliant regimes' meaning - Mufti, his main opponent.


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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> A politicians primary allegiance is always to the kursi. Well, almost. Omar is no exception.  He mentions 'pliant regimes' meaning - Mufti, his main opponent.



Then he is no hard core Indian to me.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Star Wars said:


> Who else should we blame ? How long will you people be completely oblivious to your wrong doings while fighting the same terror at home ?


The local separatists, much as you insist that the complex TTP assaults on military bases and GHQ don't have any possible Indian involvement.

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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> Then he is no hard core Indian to me.


Not as much as you perhaps, who is so inspired by India that he keeps the PM of India as his avatar.


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## pursuit of happiness

Horus said:


> "Both the 4th Geneva Convention and the United Nations Charter affirm the right of occupied people to employ armed struggle against military targets."
> 
> 
> 
> Source?


--
give me ARTICLE OR CLAUSE.. IT TOO VAGUE


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## Guynextdoor2

Mav3rick said:


> There are many problems with your assumption. First off, it is not your land, it is something that you have occupied illegally. And from therein stems all your problems. Apparently the people of Kashmir have a problem with you, hopefully they will make you realize soon enough.


 
There is one problem with your assumption. First off it's our land and we don't care what you think. How we relate to the people there, how we sort them is really our business. And let it be clear...anyone who dares to bring a situation of disaffection will face serious consequences. It is wiser for you to focus on your own problems (Balochistan and Sindh) than intrude into our spheres. If people in your establishment are involved in this attack, you can fully expect a reply elsewhere. It really is more rational for you not to be involved in these things.


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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> Not as much as you perhaps, who is so inspired by India that he keeps the PM of India as his avatar.



I only change avatars not statements. A policy followed by "hard core Indians" like Omar. 



Guynextdoor2 said:


> There is one problem with your assumption. First off it's our land and we don't care what you think. How we relate to the people there, how we sort them is really our business. And let it be clear...anyone who dares to bring a situation of disaffection will face serious consequences. It is wiser for you to focus on your own problems (Balochistan and Sindh) than intrude into our spheres. If people in your establishment are involved in this attack, you can fully expect a reply elsewhere. It really is more rational for you not to be involved in these things.



Another delusional post.


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## SarthakGanguly

Areesh said:


> I only change avatars not statements. A policy followed by "hard core Indians" like Omar.


We are two faced people. Indians. Bagal mein .... you know?  Don't take us at face value.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Now, let's wait for the standard Indian fare of "we recovered Pakistani ID cards from all the insurgents" ... not that the Indian media needed to even wait for concocted evidence to blame Pakistan in this case ...

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## Areesh

SarthakGanguly said:


> We are two faced people. Indians. Bagal mein .... you know?  Don't take us at face value.



True. But we don't mind "hard core Indians" like omar.


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## Guynextdoor2

Areesh said:


> I only change avatars not statements. A policy followed by "hard core Indians" like Omar.
> 
> 
> 
> Another delusional post.


 
There is something called 'ground reality'. In 70 years you haven't made a headway on Kashmir, you have actually lost even more land to India, lost more people to terror than India has and we are 'delusional'?

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## karan.1970

Human loss aside, this is going to be a watershed event. If in next few days, there is a huge terror strike in Pakistan (specifically on a strategic target), I will start giving credence to Pakistani members' claims about India backing BLA etc in Pakistan.

Because this one is large enough to force the govt to have some kind of visible response to preserve political capital. The kind of response will throw a lot of light on India's Capability (or lack thereof), in responding to Pakistan's asymmetric war


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## SamantK

I expect India to up the cost of this adventure very high. So high that Pakistan should become what it ultimately is bound to become.


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## pursuit of happiness

@Horus
there is no relation kahmir terrosiam and geneva convetion ..
if you claim it 2 times .. please proide with relavet section and any internatioal repputed org claim to be as you said.. as it vey old convetion so must be having good aount data to back your claim


WAR-rior said:


> They are Pakistanis. Obviously they will laugh at death of kafirs. Afterall Kafirs are no human.
> 
> And ultimately, they keep on questioning why Pakistan is treated as @#$#% by every random country in the world.
> 
> Now I am waiting for some **** soldiers to get *** kicked in Zarb e Kabz...


--
i understnad your anger..
but loss of life is cost to family.. socirty .. nation ..humanity.. those laid life for being right side of truth 
its danger in war that when you fight with devil you yoursle become devill..
if we cant keep dignity high what the difrent betwen we and them


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## Areesh

Guynextdoor2 said:


> There is something called 'ground reality'. In 70 years you haven't made a headway on Kashmir, you have actually lost even more land to India, lost more people to terror than India has and we are 'delusional'?



We have 35% of Kashmir. You are unable to remove article 270 from Indian occupied Kashmir. Your integral part is already broken. Yes you are delusional. Shouting in front of a Pakistani that Kashmir is an Indian land don't change historical, legal and ground realities dear.


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## SQ8

Indo-guy said:


> 17 killed as Pakistan-backed militants .

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## Guynextdoor2

Areesh said:


> We have 35% of Kashmir. You are unable to remove article 270 from Indian occupied Kashmir. Your integral part is already broken. Yes you are delusional. Shouting in front of a Pakistani that Kashmir is an Indian land don't change historical, legal and ground realities dear.


 
We ain't interested in that 35%, you keep it. As far as the rest of 'ground reality', we're quite happy with how things are turning out for you due to this obsession.


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## Areesh

Guynextdoor2 said:


> We ain't interested in that 35%, you keep it. As far as the rest of 'ground reality', we're quite happy with how things are turning out for you due to this obsession.



You don't seem to be much happy as you claim to in this thread.


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## Guynextdoor2

Areesh said:


> You don't seem to be much happy as you claim to in this thread.


 
Don't worry, we are.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

karan.1970 said:


> Human loss aside, this is going to be a watershed event. If in next few days, there is a huge terror strike in Pakistan (specifically on a strategic target), I will start giving credence to Pakistani members' claims about India backing BLA etc in Pakistan.


So all the past "huge terror strikes" that have already occurred in Pakistan (especially the complex terrorist assaults on military, ISI bases and GHQ) don't 'give credence to Pakistani claims about Indian support for the TTP and BLA etc", but a "huge terror strike" in the coming days will ... yeah, sure.


> Because this one is large enough to force the govt to have some kind of visible response to preserve political capital. The kind of response will throw a lot of light on India's Capability (or lack thereof), in responding to Pakistan's asymmetric war


As I said in an earlier post:

"... on the issue of the allegation that these militants are "Pakistan backed", if the Indians actually believe it is true, then it clearly points out the fact that Modi, his BJP leadership and all those "military sources" ranting in the media as having "inflicted massive losses on Pakistani forces during the Indian ceasefire violations" and "we gave Pakistan a jaw breaking response" etc. etc. were talking out of their rear-ends.

Either way, Modi and the military establishment are taking the Indian public for a ride and consider them fools that will keep buying their nonsensical propaganda. Indians should have gotten a clue from the "ancient Indians had cosmic weapons, space travel, plastic surgery" etc. nonsense spouted by Modi, that the Modi government would have no problems in living in a fantasy world and distorting the truth."

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## OrionHunter

Horus said:


> Low lives are already blaming Pakistan.


No! The Martians did it. You guys are lily white - The Land of the Pure! How dare anyone blames Pakistan?

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

OrionHunter said:


> No! The Martians did it. You guys are lily white - The Land of the Pure! How dare anyone blames Pakistan?


Are you going to reproduce yet another Pakistani ID card that you also posted months ago and claim it was discovered on the bodies of the recently killed insurgents to substantiate your allegations against Pakistan?


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## Donatello

SarthakGanguly said:


> Rest in Peace to the Indian soldiers defending our nation.
> 
> This was coming. There were regular attempts.
> 
> i. Most infiltration attempts have been foiled at the LOC itself.
> 
> ii. The Hurriyat is demoralized after the poll debacle when for the first time 80% of the people did not care what they said.
> 
> iii. The separatists of all hues accepted the changed situation. Some have even joined the electorial process, few even the BJP.
> 
> iv. Now the loss of 'strategic assets' like these was too much. So started border skirmishes and breaking ceasefire, slipping in yahoos. etc
> 
> v. After all regular mujaheedin attacks failed, the final and most desperate move - the suicide bombing fedayeen was employed as a last resort to disturb the peace and sow the seeds of fear in the minds of young Kashmiris who want a better life for their future.
> 
> In happened like this -
> In 1947 Pakistan lost Kashmir (the Maharajah would have joined Pakistan for some conditions that India refused to provide).
> In 1965 Pakistan lost the moral ground that they want to take it peacefully.
> In 1999 Pakistan lost the right to Kashmir.
> In 2014 Pakistan lost everything in Kashmir.
> 
> Pakistan appears more and more to be an aberration in the annals of history that Time fixes automatically as it progresses. Even amidst sectarian killings, full fledged official civil war, political turbulence for decades, the establishment tries to focus all attention to the eternal bogey of Hindu India to unite the State as a last ditch attempt. If things were that easy, India and Nepal would have been one country and all Arab states another. States created on the premise of fear(of Hindus/Hindu domination) will most likely collapse(or is collapsing for years now) due to the fear it cultivates.
> 
> That said, as I stated before, this is a part of a pattern. Also 16th December is coming, hence the insecurities of an obsessed state is bound to manifest in acts like these. After December, they will most like calm down for a few months. Such is the irrationality of the _entire 'masla'. _




There is absolutely no way the maharaja would've joined Pakistan....this is all BS taught to Indians. If it was left to Maharaja, Pakistan would've been deprived of the strategic GB and AJK region. Pakistan go what it wanted. Simple.


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## SamantK

Pakistanis want us to believe that this is a propaganda against them when we see. 

Army Chief terming Kashmir as its jugular vien

Hafiz Saeed, a UN declared terrorist roams freely in Pakistan who keeps harping Kashmir Banega Pakistan 

Religious yahoo's in Pakistan and on this forum talk about how proud Mujahideen they will become one day. 

LoL


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## thesolar65

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Aake Lele, we're waiting....



Woh nahin ayega...Chalak hai. Brainwashed ko bhejega. Maut se dar lagta hai us se!! Khali bada bada baat karega!!

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## OrionHunter

Donatello said:


> There is absolutely no way the maharaja would've joined Pakistan....this is all BS taught to Indians. If it was left to Maharaja, Pakistan would've been deprived of the strategic GB and AJK region. *Pakistan go what it wanted. Simple.*


But you want to eat the cake and have it too - Indian Kashmir!

But that, needless to say, will never ever happen. No one in this whole wide world cares two hoots for your position on Kashmir! Most were sleeping even as your PM was addressing the UN on Kashmir.  Like this......

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## jaunty

Those who are responsible for this attack must bot be spared. The strategy of defensive offense must go ahead. I have faith in Doval, let's see what he does to avenge this.


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## OrionHunter

SamantK said:


> Pakistanis want us to believe that this is a propaganda against them when we see.
> 
> Army Chief terming Kashmir as its jugular vien
> 
> Hafiz Saeed, a UN declared terrorist roams freely in Pakistan who keeps harping Kashmir Banega Pakistan
> 
> Religious yahoo's in Pakistan and on this forum talk about how proud Mujahideen they will become one day.
> 
> LoL


And how come you forgot that great self styled intellectual called Billy Bhutto? He ranted that if he becomes Pakistan's PM he will take every inch of Kashmir!! Jeez! Brain cells seem to be in short supply!

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## Prometheus

Horus said:


> They are Pakistanis you fool. India doesn't occupy Kashmir so how can Kashmiris fight against an Indian occupation that doesn't exist?




post reported for personal attack/abuse


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## karan.1970

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> So all the past "huge terror strikes" that have already occurred in Pakistan (especially the complex terrorist assaults on military, ISI bases and GHQ) don't 'give credence to Pakistani claims about Indian support for the TTP and BLA etc", but a "huge terror strike" in the coming days will ... yeah, sure.


Dude, the amount of shit hitting the fan in Pakistan is way beyond what RAW is capable of. So without a collaborating motive, all accusations are pretty much conjecture. Now if there was ever a motive for India to sponsor a hit within Pakistan, its now. And if the hit materializes, it does solidify the motive angle.

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## PakShaheen79

Amazing, the incident is still going on and all of Indians here have run the DNA tests to prove that they were actually Pakistanis supported by Pakistani military. What it reminds me, .... Samjhuta Express, Malegaon, Mumbai, Sikh Massecare in Jammu, ... list goes on


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

jaunty said:


> Those who are responsible for this attack must bot be spared. The strategy of defensive offense must go ahead. I have faith in Doval, let's see what he does to avenge this.


Interesting ... are you advocating for covert (terrorist attacks supported by India, which Pakistan alleges that India is already engaging in by supporting the TTP and Baloch terrorist groups) or overt military clashes across the LoC/WB?

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## Donatello

jaunty said:


> Those who are responsible for this attack must bot be spared. The strategy of defensive offense must go ahead. I have faith in Doval, let's see what he does to avenge this.



Wasn't Doval in charge of preventing this very thing?

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Donatello said:


> Wasn't Doval in charge of preventing this very thing?


I think he did visit Afghanistan recently, perhaps to inquire about increasing Indian support for the TTP and BLA/BRA terrorists sheltering there ... perhaps Ghani was not as receptive as Karzai?

US attacks against the TTP (in Afghanistan) have increased of late, and even the TTP leadership quoted in the Western press has been "complaining" that they are not receiving the kind of support they used to from the ANA/ANP ...



karan.1970 said:


> Dude, the amount of shit hitting the fan in Pakistan is way beyond what RAW is capable of. So without a collaborating motive, all accusations are pretty much conjecture. Now if there was ever a motive for India to sponsor a hit within Pakistan, its now. And if the hit materializes, it does solidify the motive angle.


And if the "hit materializes", it could also just be one of the increasingly infrequent successful attempts by the TTP to carry out terrorist attacks, like the one at Wagah ... 

The TTP and associated groups have not given up trying to carry out terrorist attacks, and they are far from completely destroyed, and all it takes is one successful attempt to make the headlines. Now, if you really want to claim credit for India/Doval over a terrorist attack, especially one on civilians given the context of your post, go ahead ... I for one continue to reject the Indian allegations that the Pakistani State supported these recent insurgent attacks in any material fashion.

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## Prometheus

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I think he did visit Afghanistan recently, perhaps to inquire about increasing Indian support for the TTP and BLA/BRA terrorists sheltering there ... perhaps Ghani was not as receptive as Karzai?
> 
> US attacks against the TTP (in Afghanistan) have increased of late, and even the TTP leadership quoted in the Western press has been "complaining" that they are not receiving the kind of support they used to from the ANA/ANP ...




perhaps , he just went there sight seeing , perhaps Ghani wanted to have tea with him..............the key word "perhaps"

i am getting confused ............isnt USA trying to destablizing Pakistan via TTP and various other insurgencies??? as far Pakistani mates says here on this forum


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## jaunty

Donatello said:


> Wasn't Doval in charge of preventing this very thing?



Doval or anyone for that matter can't prevent every single terrorist attack. Indian security and intelligence agencies have done a stellar job since Mumbai 2008 to prevent major terrorist attacks in the country. In a country like India, which is directly connected to one of the major terrorist hubs in the word it is not an easy job.



AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Interesting ... are you advocating for covert (terrorist attacks supported by India, which Pakistan alleges that India is already engaging in by supporting the TTP and Baloch terrorist groups) or overt military clashes across the LoC/WB?



That depends on finding out who is responsible for this. You can't let the enemy, whoever that maybe, come and kill you inside your home and then do nothing in return.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

jaunty said:


> That depends on finding out who is responsible for this. You can't let the enemy, whoever that maybe, come and kill you inside your home and then do nothing in return.


In that case aren't you jumping the gun in anticipating "Doval's response", when the attack is barely over and proper investigations into the attackers and the attack need to take place?

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## dray

Horus said:


> That is certainly what Indians think. Kashmir is not your state.



How long will you live in denial?


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## jaunty

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> In that case aren't you jumping the gun in anticipating "Doval's response", when the attack is barely over and proper investigations into the attackers and the attack need to take place?



No, did not jump the gun at all. Doval is the NSA and I have faith in him that he would take appropriate action against the responsible party. That is exactly what I said.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Prometheus said:


> perhaps , he just went there sight seeing , perhaps Ghani wanted to have tea with him..............the key word "perhaps"


Right, "perhaps", though all of the options you present are far less credible than the ones I mentioned, for an NSA official at least ...


> i am getting confused ............isnt USA trying to destablizing Pakistan via TTP and various other insurgencies??? as far Pakistani mates says here on this forum


"Was trying to destabilize" might be a better description, if the pace of recent US attacks on TTP targets housed in Afghanistan continues. While the recent US attacks on the TTP are welcome, these attacks also raise questions about why the US waited this long to target them, and why the US knowingly allowed Baloch terrorist leaders and groups to be sheltered by the Karzai government (as shown in wikileaks) while officially denying Pakistan's official concerns about the same. The US certainly did not suffer the same constraints (in terms of resources and limited political and public backing for attacks on the TTP/BLA/BRA) that Pakistan faced in launching military ops in North Waziristan.

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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> Actually we are.. Unlike Pakistanis like you we dont have to vent out frustration by making an abuse directed towards a leader of the enemy country as our signature. You wont find any indian here with something like "Juck Finnah" as their signature



Actually this Muck Fodi thing is derived from an *Indian* not Pakistani. It was his user name on Twitter. As for Jinnah. You are not doing this because you can't afford to do it here. And it is stupid to compare Jinnah with someone like Modi. 
There is a difference of intellect. One formed a nation country while other thinks that Indians were the inventors of plastic surgery because they believe in some god with head of an elephant.



Guynextdoor2 said:


> Don't worry, we are.



Okay.



AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Right, "perhaps", though all of the options you present are far less credible than the ones I mentioned, for an NSA official at least ...
> 
> "Was trying to destabilize" might be a better description, if the pace of recent US attacks on TTP targets housed in Afghanistan continues. While the recent US attacks on the TTP are welcome, these attacks also raise questions about why the US waited this long to target them, and why the US knowingly allowed Baloch terrorist leaders and groups to be sheltered by the Karzai government (as shown in wikileaks) while officially denying Pakistan's official concerns about the same. The US certainly did not suffer the same constraints (in terms of resources and limited political and public backing for attacks on the TTP/BLA/BRA) that Pakistan faced in launching military ops in North Waziristan.



Hey Agno. Can you please explain to me why this attack would get more hype and media exposure in India than attack on CRPF by Maoists. What is the difference between then two. Why the discrimination? Please explain. It is very confusing for me.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Areesh said:


> Actually this Muck Fodi thing is derived from an *Indian* not Pakistani. It was his user name on Twitter. As for Jinnah. You are not doing this because you can't afford to do it here. And it is stupid to compare Jinnah with someone like Modi.
> There is a difference of intellect. One formed a nation country while other thinks that Indians were the inventors of plastic surgery because they believe in some god with head of an elephant.
> Okay.


@karan.1970 

The equivalent to 'Muck Fodi' would be 'Suck Fharif'' or 'Zuck Fardari' ... Indians are free to use either ...

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## rockstar08

for the sake of this region , Kashmir issues must be solved . . .


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## KingMamba

So the same Indians who do not miss even women and children across the loc somehow allowed a whole bunch of "infiltrators" through and allowed them to kill a whole bunch of their men? Shabash

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## Hulk

This is desparare attempt by Pakistan as they feel that Kashmiris are drifting away. 70% Voting has shattered them and they decided to attack even if their is cost attached. There might be few more attacks coming. However, this is not going to help them in anyway.


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## rockstarIN

Terror factory is fearful of large turn outs..


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## Parul

Rest in peace Soldiers - May your families find Solace in your sacrifice for the Motherland.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Damn... thats a big number.. how many guys were involved in this attack?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Areesh said:


> Hey Agno. Can you please explain to me why this attack would get more hype and media exposure in India than attack on CRPF by Maoists. What is the difference between then two. Why the discrimination? Please explain. It is very confusing for me.


Unlike the Maoist violence, the Indian government and media can scapegoat an outside entity (Pakistan) as an excuse. This also plays into the pathological hatred that many Indians have for Pakistan and their desire to ignore the fact that J&K is internationally recognized disputed territory with UNSC Resolutions (that India initiated and accepted) pending implementation.

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## Areesh

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Damn... thats a big number.. how many guys were involved in this attack?



6 attackers. And the worst part is that they burnt alive 4 soldiers. I don't know how they able to do that.

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## Spring Onion

RIP to the dead as well as saffroni media


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## SQ8

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> This also plays into the *pathological hatred* that many Indians have for Pakistan



This is the operative idea some 90% of the time.


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## StormShadow

I wonder how the retaliation for this would be like?


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## SpArK

RIP to the fallen soldiers.

Lot of members posting to show their happiness over the death and the thread going for several pages.

A true reflection of the forum.

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## Shardul.....the lion

Rest in peace...........

Revenge will be served to perprators and their supporters whether it is congress govt or BJP govt.........

These attacks will wake up the people who still think that Pakistan is honest about peace......... Pakistan is just waiting and buying time and planning for next kargil or 1965 attack.or till its economy recovers.


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## pursuit of happiness

Horus said:


> Hai Haq Hamara Azzadi, Ham Lay Ky Rahaingy Azzadi


---
yes.. you have right to have freedom from terrorisam but unfortunelty lost being human being in process



Horus said:


> Instrument of Accession is a bogus document.
> 
> India's False Claim on Kashmir
> ------------------------------
> 
> On October 28th 1993, Robin Raphel stated that Washington did not recognise
> the Instrument of Accession to India as meaning that Kashmir is forever
> more an integral part of India. She expressed the view that the whole of
> Kashmir is disputed territory, the future status of which must be
> determined in accordance with the wishes of the people of Kashmir.
> 
> The International Commission of Jurists (ICJ), based in Geneva, recently,
> passed a resolution proclaiming Kashmir's accession to India as bogus and
> null and void. The ICJ went further by condemning the human rights
> violations in Kashmir.
> 
> These events serve to highlight the disputed status of Kashmir by focusing
> on the fraudulent nature of the Instrument of Accession which was 'signed'
> by the Mahrajah of Kashmir on 26th October 1947.
> 
> The Indians claim that the Instrument of Accession was signed by Mahrajah
> Hari Singh on 26th October 1947, in which the Mahrajah agreed to accede to
> India in return for military assistance to put down the popular rebellion
> against him, seen at that time as an invasion by tribesmen from
> neighbouring Pakistan. The details of the accession were worked out between
> the Kashmiri Prime Minister, MC Mahajan and the Indian official, VP Menon,
> in Dehli. However, there are serious doubts about the signing of the
> document. Alastair Lamb (in his book, Kashmir - A disputed legacy 1846-
> 1990) points out that the Instrument of Accession could not have been
> signed by the Mahrajah on 26th October as he was travelling by road to
> Jammu (a distance of over 350 Km). There is no evidence to suggest that a
> meeting or communication of any kind took place on 26th October 1947. In
> fact it was on 27th October 1947 that the Mahrajah was informed by his MC
> Mahajan and VP Menon (who had flown into Srinagar), the the Instrument of
> Accession had already been negotiated in Dehli. The Mahrajah did not in
> fact sign the Instrument of Accession, if at all, until 27th October 1947.
> This sheds doubts on the actions of the Indian regime. Some Indian troops
> had already arrived and secured Srinagar airfield during the middle of
> October 1947. On 26th October 1947, a further massive airlift brought
> thousands of Indian troops to Kashmir - BEFORE the signing of the
> Accession. Therefore, this situation begs the question: would the Mahrajah
> have signed the Instrument of Accession had the Indian troops not been on
> Kashmiri soil?
> 
> No satisfactory original of the Instrument of Accession has ever been
> produced in an international forum; a published form has always been shown.
> Further, the document was not presented to Pakistan or to the UN. In the
> summer of 1995, the Indian authorities reported the original document as
> lost or stolen. This sheds further doubt on whether the Mahrajah actually
> signed the Instrument of Accession.
> 
> The Governor-General of India at the time, Lord Mountbatten, stipulated
> that the permanent accession of Kashmir to the Indian Union will only be
> accepted once the people of Kashmir had been consulted. He noted in a
> letter to the Mahrajah, "the question of the states's accession should be
> settled by a reference to the people". Furthermore, when the Kashmir crisis
> broke out in October 1947, the principle of reference to the people through
> plebiscite was already established as similar disputes in some other states
> had been resolved this way. The Indian Prime Minister J Nehru, accepted
> this principle and reiterated his position in a letter to the British Prime
> Minister on 25th October 1947, "our view, which we have repeatedly made
> public, is that the question of accession in any disputed territory must be
> decided in accordance with the wishes of the people and we adhere to this
> view". Therefore, at the time of the so-called accession, the Indian regime
> accepted the principle of reference to the people. Based on this principle,
> the Instrument of Accession should have been provisional and conditional
> upon the outcome of a plebiscite.
> 
> When India took the Kashmir issue to the UN in 1948, it did so under
> article 35 of Chapter VI which outlines the means for a peaceful settlement
> of disputes. It is interesting to note here that India did not present the
> Kashmir case under the UN Chapter VII which relates to acts of aggression
> as India was alleging Pakistan. Therefore, it is evident that by raising
> the issue under Chapter VI, India recognised the Kashmir issue as a
> dispute, thus conceding that the Instrument of Accession had not confirmed
> the state to be an integral part of India. India is still party to all the
> UN resolutions on Kashmir. Moreover, India and Pakistan accepted the UN
> resolutions of January 1948 calling for a plebiscite in Kashmir to exercise
> the right of self-determination of the people of Kashmir. India's
> acceptance of the UN resolutions establishes beyond a doubt, that the
> future of status of Kashmir would be determined by its people. Therefore,
> the Instrument of Accession, even if genuine, is rendered null and void.
> 
> In the past, attempts to hold a plebiscite have been met with fierce
> opposition from India. India has known, right from the start, that the
> result of a plebiscite is a foregone conclusion - the population of Kashmir
> would have voted to rid themselves of Indian rule. This has been the case
> from 26th October 1947 to the present day. On the practicality of holding a
> plebiscite, a paper by the US state department, presented to the UN on 2nd
> December 1947, noted , "the dominion of India may attempt to establish the
> extant electoral rolls on the basis for the referendum. As these rolls are
> said to contain less than 7% of the population and were compiled on a basis
> which served the weight to the members of the wealthiest educated Hindu
> majority who would obviously vote for accession to India, it is important
> that the electoral body should in fact be composed on a basis of complete
> adult suffrage in order that the result of the referendum may be
> representative of the actual wishes of the people of Kashmir".
> 
> In view of the above arguments, it is clear that the Indian case on Kashmir
> is politically, legally and morally unjustified. The commitment made by
> India and the UN to allow the people of the state to choose their own
> future are neither time bound nor do they provide an escape clause for the
> Indian regime. It is only through fraud and repression that India continues
> to forcefully occupy a large portion of Kashmir.
> 
> The Instrument of Accession & The Indian Claims to Kashmir


--
these things dicuss to 99.9999% in same forum and in UN.. 
what the result..

Dear pakistani Members ,
Those who support these terrorsit by any name ... then dont blame any blast in pakistan on name of relgion.. sect .. idelogy .. 
if you support bloood bath ... you will get by destiny the same...


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## Irfan Baloch

Horus said:


> They are Pakistanis you fool. India doesn't occupy Kashmir so how can Kashmiris fight against an Indian occupation that doesn't exist?


I must say that was one audacious attack after such a long time. hats off to the Kashmiri fighters for what they achieved.
I must say , the Indian border forces have to answer for themselves if these militants "REALLY" crossed over the border and multi-layered electrified fence .



jaunty said:


> When terrorists can capture soldiers alive and then later play football with their heads, they can do anything.


wow Jaunty thats a best comment you just made in this thread.. you must be feeling better

by the way.. just in case you chose to miss the news... those who played football with our soldiers were blown to bits by our Gunship attack. our soldiers who tagged them and called in the airstrike later on recovered the corpses and identified them from the pictures they had posted on the internet for your viewing pleasure.

furthermore, there is no room for them left to feel safe, Americans are pounding them in Afghanistan and we are pounding them inside North Waziristan. so you might need to recycle this phrase for a long time now because Gen Raheel Sherif during his visit in USA ensured that TTP becomes an extinct specie on either side of Pak- Afghan border.

oh yea, back to the story at hand. if these Kashmiri militants were sent by Hafiz Saeed then why did your military along the LoC let them cross over? was it too busy shooting at Kashmiri residents?

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## pursuit of happiness

Irfan Baloch said:


> I must say that was one audacious attack after such a long time. hats off to the Kashmiri fighters for what they achieved.
> I must say , the Indian border forces have to answer for themselves if these militants "REALLY" crossed over the border and multi-layered electrified fence .
> 
> 
> wow Jaunty thats a best comment you just made in this thread.. you must be feeling better
> 
> by the way.. just in case you chose to miss the news... those who played football with our soldiers were blown to bits by our Gunship attack. our soldiers who tagged them and called in the airstrike later on recovered the corpses and identified them from the pictures they had posted on the internet for your viewing pleasure.
> 
> furthermore, there is no room for them left to feel safe, Americans are pounding them in Afghanistan and we are pounding them inside North Waziristan. so you might need to recycle this phrase for a long time now because Gen Raheel Sherif during his visit in USA ensured that TTP becomes an extinct specie on either side of Pak- Afghan border.
> 
> oh yea, back to the story at hand. if these Kashmiri militants were sent by Hafiz Saeed then why did your military along the LoC let them cross over? was it too busy shooting at Kashmiri residents?


----
@Irfan Baloch
hats off to the Kashmiri fighters for what they achieved.
as you are veteran in field can you tell following,
what your defination of terrorist and freedom fighter ?
may i know what they achived ?
what role current flood did to porus security system in j-k?


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## Irfan Baloch

pursuit of happiness said:


> Dear pakistani Members ,
> Those who support these terrorsit by any name ... then dont blame any blast in pakistan on name of relgion.. sect .. idelogy ..
> if you support bloood bath ... you will get by destiny the same...


I empathize with your respectful post.

you see there is a difference here. the target of these militants was Indian army, not the civilians. the Indian army that is in disputed territory and is there to keep the grip of Indian state. so that fight was fair.

by the way, I am using this line because we were given the same advice by a name changing multi- account multiple banned Indian member who made a very happy and humorous post when there were news about our FC vehicle being blown up by BLA. he said it was a fair kill... he might be still here reading this thread now with yet another ID..

so just for him I say, these Indian soldiers and the officer were a fair game.

having said that, I would refrain from showing any humor or any fun out of this incident, it is war and its ugly and there is nothing glorious about it. and I say rest in peace to all dead. just or unjust, those soldiers lost their lives protecting the Indian state's occupation of Kashmir.



pursuit of happiness said:


> ----
> @Irfan Baloch
> hats off to the Kashmiri fighters for what they achieved.
> as you are veteran in field can you tell following,
> what your defination of terrorist and freedom fighter ?
> may i know what they achived ?
> what role current flood did to porus security system in j-k?


dear we wont agree on that would we?

my definition vs your definition will differ on the following starting with

Kashmris
Baloch Liberation army
Mukti bahani
Khalistan liberation force
Naxalites

so one might be freedom fighter for you but will be a terrorist for me and vice versa

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## jaunty

Irfan Baloch said:


> wow Jaunty thats a best comment you just made in this thread.. you must be feeling better
> 
> by the way.. just in case you chose to miss the news... those who played football with our soldiers were blown to bits by our Gunship attack. our soldiers who tagged them and called in the airstrike later on recovered the corpses and identified them from the pictures they had posted on the internet for your viewing pleasure.
> 
> furthermore, there is no room for them left to feel safe, Americans are pounding them in Afghanistan and we are pounding them inside North Waziristan. so you might need to recycle this phrase for a long time now because Gen Raheel Sherif during his visit in USA ensured that TTP becomes an extinct specie on either side of Pak- Afghan border.
> 
> oh yea, back to the story at hand. if these Kashmiri militants were sent by Hafiz Saeed then why did your military along the LoC let them cross over? was it too busy shooting at Kashmiri residents?



There is no limit to which these terrorists can go. That is the point I was trying to make. Good job on killing those who were responsible. IA also killed every single one of them today and will possibly try to punish the handlers in some way or other.

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## Bang Galore

Irfan Baloch said:


> so just for him I say, these Indian soldiers and the officer were a fair game.



Fair enough but so will be any retaliation against the Pakistani military.

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## Irfan Baloch

punit said:


> seems some cages are rattled violently due to high voter turnout. Now awaiting some actions at some other place due to different set of freedom fighters against a different occupier.


I know what you are saying

we are keeping an eye on your BLA and TTP camps as well. since the demise of Karzai, we are getting a free hand in Afghanistan. apart from few road side bombs, BLA has been reduced to its former shadow now.. mostly self inflicted due to infighting and cannibalizing each other with many Sardars falling out with each other over "betrayal" and joining the Baloch government. 

as for TTP? well they are not fairing that well either, American drones are hunting them inside Afghanistan and our jets and helicopters are taking them out inside North Waziristan.



Bang Galore said:


> Read more. The whole world is saying it.


really? does India allow international news agencies to visit there?

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## Bang Galore

Irfan Baloch said:


> I must say , the Indian border forces have to answer for themselves if these militants "REALLY" crossed over the border and multi-layered electrified fence .



You are being disingenous. It's not an electrical fence, the idea is to make it difficult to cross & expose any infiltrators to a much higher risk than if there is no fence. Also any breaches can be spotted & inner defences warned. The fence does not stop all infiltration, only makes it more difficult & dangerous.



Irfan Baloch said:


> really? does India allow international news agencies to visit there?



Yup. For a very long time.


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## pursuit of happiness

Irfan Baloch said:


> I empathize with your respectful post.
> 
> you see there is a difference here. the target of these militants was Indian army, not the civilians. the Indian army that is in disputed territory and is there to keep the grip of Indian state. so that fight was fair.
> 
> by the way, I am using this line because we were given the same advice by a name changing multi- account multiple banned Indian member who made a very happy and humorous post when there were news about our FC vehicle being blown up by BLA. he said it was a fair kill... he might be still here reading this thread now with yet another ID..
> 
> so just for him I say, these Indian soldiers and the officer were a fair game.
> 
> having said that, I would refrain from showing any humor or any fun out of this incident, it is war and its ugly and there is nothing glorious about it. and I say rest in peace to all dead. just or unjust, those soldiers lost their lives protecting the Indian state's occupation of Kashmir.
> 
> 
> dear we wont agree on that would we?
> 
> my definition vs your definition will differ on the following starting with
> 
> Kashmris
> Baloch Liberation army
> Mukti bahani
> Khalistan liberation force
> Naxalites
> 
> so one might be freedom fighter for you but will be a terrorist for me and vice versa


----
Thanks for reply... 
Target theory .. 
even if i accept this that these terrorist/FF targeting Armed forces ...
who hit the most due to insurgency ?
who got hiit the most in to in terroist and IA battle ..
whos house /hotel/shikara blow up by either side in battle ?
what benefit kahmiris got in all this ?
IA become more fierce in action in which some brunt on innocent kashmiris .. waht their fault ?

---
Fun at blast.. 
if any member did this he shoudl be ban permanatyl .. 
and if he is reding this thred then its MOD responsibilty to keep these people at bay ..till they relasir their mistake..
Soldires of any county die for cuntry.. so Respect is Must .. 
if indian member did it i am sorry for that 
but one exception is not rule.. not all indian celebrate like that 
--- 
Soldirs life 
you said more than me.. which summaries it .. 

----
IOK vs Azad Kashmir
instead of puting these terrorist in IOk lets make deal who can develope siether side beter n huan index..is it not fair deal for the cause you figthing for ..
instead traing jihaids train gigit yout to make head of OIC.. OPEC.. best bsuiness man / group.. best model for devlopemt 
we are trying .. shall you too .. 

--- 
your Terrosty my FF and vis vis 

*Kashmris
Baloch Liberation army--*
if pak estabshment knows and have solid proff that india is envolve why cant you go to UN or make other nation aware like we did in 26/11 case ..
world diplomacy need proof ... 
you cant blame wihut proof .. a Solid proof and present to world community 
*Mukti bahani*
ok.. may i know how many representative east pak have in west pak central govt.. how many bengalsit become PM and president of pak.. how musch beudget allaoction form 1947 - 1970 east pak had iin central budget ?
*Khalistan liberation force*
it was bad game plan.. with bad exceution was playing with fire and got its result too
*Naxalites*
we never traedt naxalsit as terrosrt 
they have difrent of opinon had some ideology based on type of development later become pure explitative one and lost cause

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## Donatello

jaunty said:


> No, did not jump the gun at all. Doval is the NSA and I have faith in him that he would take appropriate action against the responsible party. That is exactly what I said.


Similar incident happened just a few days ago.


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## SQ8

karan.1970 said:


> Actually we are.. Unlike Pakistanis like you we dont have to vent out frustration by making an abuse directed towards a leader of the enemy country as our signature. You wont find any indian here with something like "Juck Finnah" as their signature



Please, I spend way too much time here to know exactly the amount of human filth that comes from India here as well.


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## jaunty

Donatello said:


> Similar incident happened just a few days ago.



Where?


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## pursuit of happiness

Oscar said:


> Please, I spend way too much time here to know exactly the amount of human filth that comes from India here as well.


--
the same filth from your side making our soil dirty
till now . palce is sanitize


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## Iggy

Irfan Baloch said:


> having *said that, I would refrain from showing any humor or any fun out of this incident*, it is war and its ugly and there is nothing glorious about it. and I say rest in peace to all dead. just or unjust, those soldiers lost their lives protecting the Indian state's occupation of Kashmir.



Please dont refrain from it sir, it is not going to make any difference after all these comments.. While you are at it, have some fun over the death too.. After all its the enemy.. Who cares if some civilians or soldiers from across the border is killed by terrorist attacks? May be distribute some sweets too for showing appreciation to your freedom fighters..




Oscar said:


> This is the operative idea some 90% of the time.




Isnt it the same vice versa also?

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## SQ8

pursuit of happiness said:


> --
> the same filth *from your side* making our soil dirty
> till now . palce is sanitize



Innocent till proven guilty. I wonder what witnesses will be cooked up this time to identify them as Pakistanis. 
Sad though that the troops there have lost their lives fighting for a cause that is not theirs .



seiko said:


> Please dont refrain from it sir, it is not going to make any change after all these comments.. While you are at it, have some fun over the death too.. After all its the enemy.. Who cares if some civilians or soldiers from across the border is killed by terrorist attacks? May be distribute some sweets too for showing appreciation to your freedom fighters..



All things considered, the same exists from India as well. Pathological hatred as they say.


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## Bang Galore

Oscar said:


> Innocent till proven guilty. I wonder what witnesses will be cooked up this time to identify them as Pakistanis.Sad though that the troops there have lost their lives fighting for a cause that is not theirs .



Indian soldiers fight their country's battles. Just as yours do I suspect .

As for cooking up witnesses etc...who do we have to convince? If the army & GoI are convinced, then retaliation is in order. Nothing more required.


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## Iggy

Oscar said:


> All things considered, the same exists from India as well. Pathological hatred as they say.



Where did I deny that? And judging by the response here, I too have a feeling that they were right all the time..


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## SpArK

Oscar said:


> All things considered, the same exists from India as well. Pathological hatred as they say.




Hence lets conclude these are the Pakistani counterparts of the Indian Pathological hate mongers. 

Pretty interesting members we have here.


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## SQ8

Bang Galore said:


> Indian soldiers fight their country's battles. Just as yours do I suspect .
> 
> As for cooking up witnesses etc...who do we have to convince? If the army & GoI are convinced, then retaliation is in order. Nothing more required.



And where soldiers have been used to suppress a population.. such as in 71.. and with India in Kashmir.. they are on the wrong side.

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## pursuit of happiness

Oscar said:


> Innocent till proven guilty. I wonder what witnesses will be cooked up this time to identify them as Pakistanis.
> Sad though that the troops there have lost their lives fighting for a cause that is not theirs .
> 
> 
> 
> All things considered, the same exists from India as well. Pathological hatred as they say.


---
indians are not that smart to show fals flag ops on national television ..
we proven our case to world.. that Hafiz S deaclred terrosit byUN... 
Troops know their casue and gave thier life for same..
do you think Soldires of Lt .rank JCO are that so innocet to lose thier life for no reason .. 
--
world knows from where terrosit come from..
pakistnai meber said on ntional tv that 26./11 by indian fasle flag and then came the gaza e hind ajamal kasab
still in denial mode ?


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## SQ8

SpArK said:


> Hence lets conclude these are the Pakistani counterparts of the Indian Pathological hate mongers.
> 
> Pretty interesting members we have here.



If Arnab Goswami was a very well balanced anchor who would not interrupt, heckle or make up ideas in his shows.. would he still the ratings he has?

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## Areesh

jaunty said:


> When terrorists can capture soldiers alive and then later play football with their heads, they can do anything.



No need to get emotional dear and compare two totally different scenarios. Or else I also have some very shameful examples to quote from Maoist attack a few days ago. Lets not go there please.



> In this case however-- "The spokesman said, during the operation, a barrack also caught fire, presumably because of a kerosene heater toppling, in which some soldiers got trapped."



Okay Fair Enough.

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## surya kiran

Oscar said:


> If Arnab Goswami was a very well balanced anchor who would not interrupt, heckle or make up ideas in his shows.. would he still the ratings he has?




One chap does not stand for the rest. There are other guys who are really good. And anways, TRP does not mean he is an opinion maker. Just like, I love to watch Lalu talk, does not make me vote for his party.


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## jaunty

Irfan Baloch said:


> you see there is a difference here. the target of these militants was Indian army, not the civilians. the Indian army that is in disputed territory and is there to keep the grip of Indian state. so that fight was fair.
> 
> by the way, I am using this line because we were given the same advice by a name changing multi- account multiple banned Indian member who made a very happy and humorous post when there were news about our FC vehicle being blown up by BLA. he said it was a fair kill... he might be still here reading this thread now with yet another ID..
> 
> so just for him I say, these Indian soldiers and the officer were a fair game.



The problem with that argument is that foreign born fighters don't get to fight a "fair" fight against the Indian military in Kashmir. We know (confirmed by a USMA study) that the bulk of terrorists organizations like LET is formed by Pakistani Punjab based terrorists. Not only that, there are documented proof of Pakistani govt giving money to UN declared terrorist groups such as LeT (or JuD). I know that Pakistanis have a habit of trying to find justification for terrorist activities if it suits them but please don't try to justify Punjabi terrorists sneaking into India and killing Indian military even it it is in Kashmir. In this case, we will have to first find out the origin of these terrorists that got killed today and then work accordingly.

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## pursuit of happiness

surya kiran said:


> Yeah, lot of experience with East Pakistan is telling  and till date no part of India has been 'lost' only gained. Can you say the same about Pakistan?
> 
> Propaganda
> 1 Pak Soldier = 100 Indian soldiers, Reality 90000 surrender as PoW
> Pak Army = Super strategist, Reality Strategic depth became deep debt
> Osama is in Afghanistan, Reality Osama hunt by American SpecOps in Pak territory and got out!
> Kashmir hamaaaara hai, Reality Karachi mein aag hai
> 
> That's history lesson for now.


--
leave it all
greast leader faught war in other territories so destruction still make enemeny bleed 
but 
Their own nation become battleground...courtesy .. pak estabslihemnt 
thir own socierty become confused and radical 
their own system of elction , justice , parliamnt they made joke of supreme court .presidta pm .. waht more you need 
--
Chale to dus re ka ashiyana jalane 
lagi chingari to apna hi basera jal gaya


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## SQ8

pursuit of happiness said:


> ---
> indians are not that smart to show fals flag ops on national television ..
> we proven our case to world.. that Hafiz S deaclred terrosit byUN...
> Troops know their casue and gave thier life for same..
> do you think Soldires of Lt .rank JCO are that so innocet to lose thier life for no reason ..
> --
> world knows from where terrosit come from..
> pakistnai meber said on ntional tv that 26./11 by indian fasle flag and then came the gaza e hind ajamal kasab
> still in denial mode ?



What if Ajmal Kasab was paid by the Indian agencies in the ultimate false flag? 
A False flag is not just having your own people attack. Its having someone else attack you thinking you can be attacked for a much far sighted result.


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## Jf Thunder

karan.1970 said:


> Actually we are.. Unlike Pakistanis like you we dont have to vent out frustration by making an abuse directed towards a leader of the enemy country as our signature. You wont find any indian here with something like "Juck Finnah" as their signature


oh pls dont go to Mr Jinnah, do whatever you want with NS or IK, but if you go to Jinnah i will go to Guck Fandhi and Nuck Fehru


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## Iggy

Oscar said:


> If Arnab Goswami was a very well balanced anchor who would not interrupt, heckle or make up ideas in his shows.. would he still the ratings he has?



Arnab Goswami does not talk about Pakistan always.. He do have made debate about various issues happening inside India.. So dont think that he got ratings because he criticizes Pakistan .. He is very vocal against many other things also..


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## Bang Galore

Oscar said:


> And where soldiers have been used to suppress a population.. such as in 71.. and with India in Kashmir.. they are on the wrong side.



Big difference. People here get a vote. Something that Pakistan seems unable to deliver to any of its people with any sense of certainity.

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## pursuit of happiness

Oscar said:


> And where soldiers have been used to suppress a population.. such as in 71.. and with India in Kashmir.. they are on the wrong side.


--


Oscar said:


> What if Ajmal Kasab was paid by the Indian agencies in the ultimate false flag?
> A False flag is not just having your own people attack. Its having someone else attack you thinking you can be attacked for a much far sighted result.


--
there are many IF ..prove that if
till that if is proven ajaml kasab is from pak trained by pak establsihemnt made use as state aginast india for terrorism
--
you have to prove .. IF and buts dont work in world jurisprudance and UN
--
China is with you..
hope you know .. who gave tapes of musharf -s harif convesation of kargil to USA or media from bejing hotel to blow cover .. 
--
RAW /IB is too smart to have flase flag ops wihout blown cover by China so long if not USA


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## SQ8

surya kiran said:


> One chap does not stand for the rest. There are other guys who are really good. And anways, TRP does not mean he is an opinion maker. Just like, I love to watch Lalu talk, does not make me vote for his party.



Yes, but that very fact that he is an idiot makes you watch him. The same way that there are idiots will come here who will be greater highlights than the saner members.


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## SQ8

Bang Galore said:


> Big difference. People here get a vote. Something that Pakistan seems unable to deliver to any of its people with any sense of certainity.



Again, selective memory of high horses. Might I remind you of the plebiscite demand that was NEVER fulfilled?
There was voting in Pakistan(recall the 70s elections) as well except that that choice was never granted.


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## SpArK

Oscar said:


> What if Ajmal Kasab was paid by the Indian agencies in the ultimate false flag?
> A False flag is not just having your own people attack. Its having someone else attack you thinking you can be attacked for a much far sighted result.



Convey this "*what if"* to the pindi court which is doing the trail of this case to save precious public money and to release lakhvi.


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## SQ8

SpArK said:


> Convey this "*what if"* to the pindi court which is doing the trail of this case to save precious public money and to release lakhvi.



Wont matter. The Pindi courts cant even keep their local terror cases in court, what they heck will they achieve with a foreign request.


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## Bang Galore

Oscar said:


> Again, selective memory of high horses. Might I remind you of the plebiscite demand that was NEVER fulfilled?
> There was voting in Pakistan(recall the 70s elections) as well except that that choice was never granted.



No high horses. I'm as blunt as I can be. Time passes. Unlike Pakistan pre 71, India does not treat Kashmir very differently from what it treats other states. Same rules apply.


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## SQ8

pursuit of happiness said:


> RAW /IB is too smart to have flase flag ops wihout blown cover by China so long if not USA



Oh I agree. Which is why they have their Ajmal Kasabs and their Mengals and Bugtis for their dirty work. RAW/IB is ahead of the ISI now as they have decided not to put anymore Indian hands in danger when plenty of foreign ones are available to work at dollar rates.



Bang Galore said:


> No high horses. I'm as blunt as I can be. Time passes. Unlike Pakistan pre 71, India does not treat Kashmir very differently from what it treats other states. Same rules apply.



Blunt in grammar has little relation to being on a high horse. India carried out the equivalent of Operation searchlight MULTIPLE times over in Kashmir.. so much so that many kashmiris are probably rape descendants of Indian security forces.

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## pursuit of happiness

Oscar said:


> Oh I agree. Which is why they have their Ajmal Kasabs and their Mengals and Bugtis for their dirty work. RAW/IB is ahead of the ISI now as they have decided not to put anymore Indian hands in danger when plenty of foreign ones are available to work at dollar rates.
> 
> 
> 
> Blunt in grammar has little relation to being on a high horse. India carried out the equivalent of Operation searchlight MULTIPLE times over in Kashmir.. so much so that many kashmiris are probably rape descendants of Indian security forces.


---
as Mod and repsonsible member 
i expect you ti be your view based on facts logic which are like most case
but as kashmir issue .. heart rules more than brian 
till proven...Conspiracy theories ,, same like trasnfrms dark side of mood


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## Bang Galore

Oscar said:


> Blunt in grammar has little relation to being on a high horse. India carried out the equivalent of Operation searchlight MULTIPLE times over in Kashmir.. so much so that many kashmiris are probably rape descendants of Indian security forces.



Silly and juvenile. Believing your own propaganda is not very smart. If that was true, wouldn't they be Indians anyways? You are free to believe whatever you want, the situation will not change. Get off whatever horse you might seek to ride & maybe you can get some sense of reality.

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## SQ8

pursuit of happiness said:


> ---
> as Mod and repsonsible member
> i expect you ti be your view based on facts logic which are like most case
> but as kashmir issue .. *heart rules more than brian *
> till proven...Conspiracy theories ,, same like trasnfrms dark side of mood



Then we have nothing more to discuss because the same goes for you more than me.

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## pursuit of happiness

Oscar said:


> Then we have nothing more to discuss because the same goes for you more than me.


--- 
i gave you facts .. till now..


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## SQ8

Bang Galore said:


> Silly and juvenile. Believing your own propaganda is not very smart. If that was true, wouldn't they be Indians anyways? You are free to believe whatever you want, the situation will not change. Get off whatever horse you might seek to ride & maybe you can get some sense of reality.



My own propaganda? Please.. the reek of your self deceit is all over here. The last report of mass rape of a Kashmiri villiage just came up on an Indian media report. You guys are pathetic that in your high horse attempt wont even acknowledge the terrible atrocities committed by your own people whilst accusing others.. an almost complete absence of moral integrity.



pursuit of happiness said:


> ---
> i gave you facts .. till now..



You gave me one line statements. If those are called facts then your entire input here is laughable.

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## pursuit of happiness

Oscar said:


> My own propaganda? Please.. the reek of your self deceit is all over here. The last report of mass rape of a Kashmiri villiage just came up on an Indian media report. You guys are pathetic that in your high horse attempt wont even acknowledge the terrible atrocities committed by your own people whilst accusing others.. an almost complete absence of moral integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> You gave me one line statements. If those are called facts then your entire input here is laughable.


--
who is talking flase flag.. you.. you have IF and buts 
i agve you fact of 26.11 ajamal kasab...
its not lneght of fact its content that matter...
same as pentagon report . peopele here sayoo h only 1-2 para ...
point its not about para its about content..
--
waht we said about terrrosiam since daced vouced by pentagn and world too..
show me think tanks -world media showing india as terrorist hub ..
in wrtten i cna show tons of non indian source with reputed source saying same waht we are andwere saying


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## SpArK

Bang Galore said:


> Silly and juvenile. Believing your own propaganda is not very smart. If that was true, wouldn't they be Indians anyways? You are free to believe whatever you want, the situation will not change. Get off whatever horse you might seek to ride & maybe you can get some sense of reality.




An interesting read on "occupation"......on a non similar line.

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## pursuit of happiness

Oscar said:


> Yes, but that very fact that he is an idiot makes you watch him. The same way that there are idiots will come here who will be greater highlights than the saner members.


---
same tehory appleid to hamid gula nd zaid too


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## Bang Galore

Oscar said:


> My own propaganda? Please.. the reek of your self deceit is all over here. The last report of mass rape of a Kashmiri villiage just came u on an Indian media report. You guys are pathetic that in your high horse attempt wont even acknowledge the terrible atrocities committed by your own people whilst accusing others.. an almost complete absence of moral integrity.



When I said I don't do high horses, I meant that. Not interested in your sob stories of whatever you wish to believe._(btw, I referred to Pakistani official propaganda, may or may not be yours....)_ Not naive enough to believe no atrocities ever took place but doesn't change my opinion on the overall picture.

Btw I really don't care for your certificate on my moral or any other type of integrity. Move on. You can assume whatever you wish.

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## Jf Thunder

pursuit of happiness said:


> ---
> as Mod and repsonsible member
> i expect you ti be your view based on facts logic which are like most case
> but as kashmir issue .. heart rules more than brian
> till proven...Conspiracy theories ,, same like trasnfrms dark side of mood


well according to that then nothing id there to prove the "rape and murder of millions" by the PA in Operation Searchlight, quite the opposite infact


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## SQ8

pursuit of happiness said:


> ---
> same tehory appleid to hamid gula nd zaid too



Sure, but the question remains why do you need to mention them? Is it because unless you mention them you will feel insulted?



Bang Galore said:


> When I said I don't do high horses, I meant that. Not interested in your sob stories of whatever you wish to believe._(btw, I referred to Pakistani official propaganda, may or may not be yours....)_ Not naive enough to believe no atrocities ever took place but doesn't change my opinion on the overall picture.
> 
> Btw I really don't care for your certificate on my moral or any other type of integrity. Move on. You can assume whatever you wish.



I certainly doubt it...and I dont give a hoot about YOU as a member. You are one of many I amuse myself with here. 
The moral high horse is a disease effecting most Indians here.

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## pursuit of happiness

Oscar said:


> Sure, but the question remains why do you need to mention them? Is it because unless you mention them you will feel insulted?


--
the same reason you rely on arnab.goswami . 



Jf Thunder said:


> well according to that then nothing id there to prove the "rape and murder of millions" by the PA in Operation Searchlight, quite the opposite infact


dear .. please elaborate


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## SQ8

pursuit of happiness said:


> --
> the same reason you rely on arnab.goswami .
> 
> 
> dear .. please elaborate



I began the example. Goswami is an example closer to home in terms of an anchor being an idiot(not is an idiot) looking for ratings. 
Your reply seemed more of "Oh look , he said an Indian name. .now I have to reply with Pakistani name"..


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Bang Galore said:


> Fair enough but so will be any retaliation against the Pakistani military.


And when and how exactly were you able to establish that the Pakistani military was behind the recent attack/s? Is this another one of those amazing "ancient Indian attributes" that Modi was bragging about?

Some kind of "mind meld/telepathic ability" perhaps (passed down from those amazing space exploring, cosmic weapon developing and plastic surgery practicing ancient Indians) that allows "modern day Indians" to claim with such absolute certainty, mere hours after such attacks, that "the Pakistani military was behind the attack"?

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## Bang Galore

Oscar said:


> I certainly doubt it...and I dont give a hoot about YOU as a member. You are one of many I amuse myself with here.
> The moral high horse is a disease effecting most Indians here.



_Yawn._..Go bore someone else with your importance.

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## pursuit of happiness

Oscar said:


> I began the example. Goswami is an example closer to home in terms of an anchor being an idiot(not is an idiot) looking for ratings.
> Your reply seemed more of "Oh look , he said an Indian name. .now I have to reply with Pakistani name"..


--
if you got that perception .. then no its not true..
i dont put for name .
may be situatation is like that or i could not conver right meanig
what i mean is ,,
as arnab gosawmi is not right face of indina media to make view about india same goes for hamid gul and zaid which are not right example for have fair play of pakistani media..
--
nothing to gain by naming ...
yes we have diffrence but better clear it by talks not by hates
---
world is more than pdf .. as all we know.. 
world see things diffrtenty to both nation.. 
same should be filter here with facts and logic than rants


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## Areesh

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Unlike the Maoist violence, the Indian government and media can scapegoat an outside entity (Pakistan) as an excuse. This also plays into the pathological hatred that many Indians have for Pakistan and their desire to ignore the fact that J&K is internationally recognized disputed territory with UNSC Resolutions (that India initiated and accepted) pending implementation.



True. Unless Pakistan is used as a boogie poor CRPF troops dying at the hand of maoists won't get the required hype and attention.


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## Bang Galore

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> And when and how exactly were you able to establish that the Pakistani military was behind the recent attack/s? Is this another one of those amazing "ancient Indian attributes" that Modi was bragging about?
> 
> Some kind of "mind meld/telepathic ability" perhaps (passed down from those amazing space exploring, cosmic weapon developing and plastic surgery practicing ancient Indians) that allows "modern day Indians" to claim with such absolute certainty, mere hours after such attacks, that "the Pakistani military was behind the attack"?



Nope. What I said is very clear._* If*_ the GoI & the army were convinced that the attackers were Pakistani, I have long held that the obvious point for retaliation is not some _"non-state actor" _but the Pakistani army. I have not said that this is the position that will be taken by the IA & GoI, only that it should be.

The point there was the poster's comment that attacks against military targets were acceptable, I said pretty much the same. A general position, may or may not be applicable in this particular incident.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Areesh said:


> True unless Pakistan is used as a boogie poor CRPF troops dying at the hand of maoists won't get the required hype and attention.


If I recall correctly, the violence in India's Eastern States has resulted in many magnitude more Indian security forces being killed than in J&K, over the last several years, yet somehow even the smallest incident of violence or protest in J&K is blamed on "ISI/PA sponsored activity".

If the insurgents in the North Eastern States can inflict such heavy casualties on Indian security forces without State support, then the much smaller number of casualties inflicted by insurgents in J&K certainly does not require State support.

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## chhota bheem

RIP to the Indian forces who died.

RIH to the B*****ds who attacked them and those who support the terrorists.


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## Areesh

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> If I recall correctly, the violence in India's Eastern States has resulted in many magnitude more Indian security forces being killed than in J&K, over the last several years, yet somehow even the smallest incident of violence or protest in J&K is blamed on "ISI/PA sponsored activity".
> 
> If the insurgents in the North Eastern States can inflict such heavy casualties on Indian security forces without State support, then the much smaller number of casualties inflicted by insurgents in J&K certainly does not require State support.



True. Apparently Arnab and other jingos of Indian media have already waged war on Pakistan. Intense fighting going on.

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## waz

Essentially such attacks are a mix of both folks, but with more and more Pakistani volunteers. The bulk of the population in the Valley has turned its back on armed struggle, which is something many people do not want to hear or acknowldge. Being from AJK I know this full well.

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## ranjeet

RIP to the men in uniform and civilians.


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## Jf Thunder

pursuit of happiness said:


> --
> the same reason you rely on arnab.goswami .
> 
> 
> dear .. please elaborate


our Army did not do any of that sh** but it was done upon the families of the PA officers in East Pakistan by the Mukhti Bani


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## pursuit of happiness

Jf Thunder said:


> our Army did not do any of that sh** but it was done upon the families of the PA officers in East Pakistan by the Mukhti Bani


--
world beyond pak .. what they think...
ple let meknow your view on same
Remembering 1971: A retired major tells the story he’d rather forget – The Express Tribune
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/27/opinion/anam-pakistans-overdue-apology.html?_r=0
BBC News - Bangladesh war: The article that changed history
1971 Rapes: Bangladesh Cannot Hide History - Forbes


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## Jf Thunder

pursuit of happiness said:


> --
> world beyond pak .. what they think...
> ple let meknow your view on same
> Remembering 1971: A retired major tells the story he’d rather forget – The Express Tribune
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/27/opinion/anam-pakistans-overdue-apology.html?_r=0
> BBC News - Bangladesh war: The article that changed history
> 1971 Rapes: Bangladesh Cannot Hide History - Forbes


propaganda being fed to everyone, all old articlesd.

read
"The Betrayal of East Pakistan" by Lt Gen A.A.K Niazi
"Behind the myth of three million" by Abdul Munim Chaudry


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## Parul

कल के जेहादी हमले मै शहीद सभी जवानो को कृतज्ञ राष्ट्र का शत शत नमन !! तेरा वैभव अमर रहे माँ , हम दिन चार रहे ना रहे !

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## karan.1970

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Interesting ... are you advocating for covert (terrorist attacks supported by India, which Pakistan alleges that India is already engaging in by supporting the TTP and Baloch terrorist groups) or overt military clashes across the LoC/WB?


It could also be covert targeted assassinations of key perpetrators like those used to be seen during cold war era. But personally, given Modi and BJP's headset, the approach would be more around non violent reprisals like punitive economic policies (like those seen in the times of N. Rao's govt) and "accidental" violations of IWT that cant be proven.

Unless Modi gives in to the knee jerk reaction of a visible violent reaction. Though I doubt that.



AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> And if the "hit materializes", it could also just be one of the increasingly infrequent successful attempts by the TTP to carry out terrorist attacks, like the one at Wagah ...
> 
> The TTP and associated groups have not given up trying to carry out terrorist attacks, and they are far from completely destroyed, and all it takes is one successful attempt to make the headlines. Now, if you really want to claim credit for India/Doval over a terrorist attack, especially one on civilians given the context of your post, go ahead ... I for one continue to reject the Indian allegations that the Pakistani State supported these recent insurgent attacks in any material fashion.



Dude, you need to read my post in context of my original post. You and I (at least I) are not in a position to guarantee the approach being followed by the Pak or Indian govt. Till now, I have 0% belief in the Pakistani claims about India supporting TTP. But if the events in J&K are swiftly followed by a similar hit in Pakistan, that belief of mine will certainly be shaken. Do I want it ? Certainly not. Not because of any love lost for Pakistan, but simply because that sullies the image of India in the international community (like what has happened to Pakistan). But given the timing and the size of the terror strike in J&K, I am not sure if the doves in the govt will win this one.



Areesh said:


> Actually this Muck Fodi thing is derived from an *Indian* not Pakistani. It was his user name on Twitter. As for Jinnah. You are not doing this because you can't afford to do it here. And it is stupid to compare Jinnah with someone like Modi.
> There is a difference of intellect. One formed a nation country while other thinks that Indians were the inventors of plastic surgery because they believe in some god with head of an elephant.


Dude, I dont care about the origin, but who I see using it. I can find 100 such comments about Jinnah and Pakistan in general that have originated from Pakistan. My using them here does not absolve me from buying into the bigotry just because they originated in Pakistan

When American bombed Japan in 40's it was the american govt that was responsible, not Einstein who gave birth to the theory that resulted in the Bomb. 

Anyway, I agree. No comparison between Jinnah and Modi. Jinnah was responsible for Pakistan and See the state of Pakistan today .. Some nation country ..



AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> @karan.1970
> 
> The equivalent to 'Muck Fodi' would be 'Suck Fharif'' or 'Zuck Fardari' ... Indians are free to use either ...



Why do you say that? Its not a middle ages duel that a PM can fight a PM and a father of the nation can fight a father of the nation.

And really, saying Suck Fharif is like actually supporting @Areesh POV 



Oscar said:


> Please, I spend way too much time here to know exactly the amount of human filth that comes from India here as well.


Whatever....



Jf Thunder said:


> oh pls dont go to Mr Jinnah, do whatever you want with NS or IK, but if you go to Jinnah i will go to Guck Fandhi and Nuck Fehru


Please do..


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## pursuit of happiness

Jf Thunder said:


> propaganda being fed to everyone, all old articlesd.
> 
> read
> "The Betrayal of East Pakistan" by Lt Gen A.A.K Niazi
> "Behind the myth of three million" by Abdul Munim Chaudry


---
if you belive genral nizi more than multiple source.. 
then up to you...believe.. 
Lt Gen A.A.K Niazi
you want belive guy whos armed force and his authority is repsobile for said inhuman act 
Abdul Munim Chaudry
what is the credibiity of this person ?
--
as new genration of pak.. please accept the truth as truth...


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## karan.1970

Oscar said:


> Sad though that the troops there have lost their lives fighting for a cause that is not theirs .


And what makes you say that. That way do you consider all Pakistani soldiers killed by terrorists in Zarb-e-azb also lost their lives fighting for a cause of others ?

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## SQ8

karan.1970 said:


> Whatever..


I did not exactly point YOU out there..among the massive filth that floods the forum...unless you identify with them. 



karan.1970 said:


> And what makes you say that. That way do you consider all Pakistani soldiers killed by terrorists in Zarb-e-azb also lost their lives fighting for a cause of others ?



If the tribesmen dont want the PA there, they'll probably say the same. However, so far FATA has yet to have a well established freedom movement or recognized international issue with records of human rights violations that have occurred. 
East Pakistan is more akin to the Kashmir issue, there the soldiers were fighting against a people that they had oppressed. The same here. But then again, I'm sure you cant defend your dirty laundry without pointing that of others out as an excuse.. its not.. the Indian way so to say??

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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> Dude, I dont care about the origin, but who I see using it. I can find 100 such comments about Jinnah and Pakistan in general that have originated from Pakistan. My using them here does not absolve me from buying into the bigotry just because they originated in Pakistan



As I said since you cannot afford to use such words for Jinnah on this forum or else you(and other Indians) are the kind of bigot from whom I can expect anything worst. 



karan.1970 said:


> Anyway, I agree. No comparison between Jinnah and Modi. Jinnah was responsible for Pakistan and See the state of Pakistan today ..



Jinnah's Pakistan today is and fighting and going towards victory on one of the most brutal insurgencies of the human history to move forward towards the glory it was meant for. That future where even the most illiterate citizen of Pakistan won't be moronic and dumb enough to say that we invented plastic surgery because our god has the head of an elephant. 



karan.1970 said:


> Some nation country ..



Proud of it.


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## jarves

RIP.


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## karan.1970

Oscar said:


> I did not exactly point YOU out there..among the massive filth that floods the forum...unless you identify with them.



Didnt take it personally either .. Though I do not agree to your claim





Oscar said:


> If the tribesmen dont want the PA there, they'll probably say the same. However, so far FATA has yet to have a well established freedom movement or recognized international issue with records of human rights violations that have occurred


.
With no independent media reports allowed in the region, how do you know they are not saying it ?
And if being "well established" is the benchmark , then do you apply that lens to Balochistan where the movement is well established and there have been more references to it and the human rights violations by Pakistani forces in the area by international community than there have been to Kashmir ? Then all the Pakistani Security forces being killed there are dying for someone else's cause? 




Oscar said:


> East Pakistan is more akin to the Kashmir issue, there the soldiers were fighting against a people that they had oppressed.


Dont agree. In East Pakistan, the Pakistani establishment refused to accept the verdict of an official election and chose to suppress the indigenous protest that erupted after that. Kashmir is simply a low intensity ongoing battle between Indian security forces and Pakistani irregulars/terrorists



Oscar said:


> The same here. But then again, I'm sure you cant defend your dirty laundry without pointing that of others out as an excuse.. its not.. the Indian way so to say??



Well, dirty laundry or not , I have seen a mirror to be a great response to outlandish and "holier than thou" kind of claims 



Areesh said:


> As I said since you cannot afford to use such words for Jinnah on this forum or else you(and other Indians) are the kind of bigot from whom I can expect anything worst.


So you do agree that this forum allows extra privileges to Pakistanis to abuse Indian leaders ?





Areesh said:


> Jinnah's Pakistan today is and fighting and going towards victory on one of the most brutal insurgencies of the human history to move forward towards the glory it was meant for.


That's the party line. The reality is that Jinnah's Pakistan today has become synonyms with International terrorism due to its flawed policy of trying to gain asymmetric power thru the use of terrorists and is fighting an existential battle to prevent terrorists from taking over the country.

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## Thorough Pro

Could this be indian chapter of ISIS, they have india on target for some time.



Star Wars said:


> Who else should we blame ? How long will you people be completely oblivious to your wrong doings while fighting the same terror at home ?


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## Jf Thunder

pursuit of happiness said:


> ---
> if you belive genral nizi more than multiple source..
> then up to you...believe..
> Lt Gen A.A.K Niazi
> you want belive guy whos armed force and his authority is repsobile for said inhuman act
> Abdul Munim Chaudry
> what is the credibiity of this person ?
> --
> as new genration of pak.. please accept the truth as truth...


dude, the Massacre is blamed on General Tikka Khan, who was his predecessor as the CO of Eastern Command, not on Gen A.A.K. Niazi



karan.1970 said:


> Please do..


Already did


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## Star Wars

Thorough Pro said:


> Could this be indian chapter of ISIS, they have india on target for some time.



Not possible, they are already spread out too thin in IRaq and Syria ... this is LET


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## pursuit of happiness

Jf Thunder said:


> dude, the Massacre is blamed on General Tikka Khan, who was his predecessor as the CO of Eastern Command, not on Gen A.A.K. Niazi
> 
> 
> Already did


---
ok..
but he still not right source to believ


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## Thorough Pro

of late they have been hiring indian and bengladeshi citizens for fighting in Iraq and Syria, probably some of them are now returning back to the den with new skills.



Star Wars said:


> Not possible, they are already spread out too thin in IRaq and Syria ... this is LET


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## Jf Thunder

pursuit of happiness said:


> ---
> ok..
> but he still not right source to believ


why?


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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> So you do agree that this forum allows extra privileges to Pakistanis to abuse Indian leaders ?



Yes. 

Now as much as I want you to leave this forum for protest against this injustice, I know you won't. So let's move on. My signature is going to remain as it is. Lets whine on some other issue. Being a bharati you have to whine and gripe. Lets pick something else to whine. Shall we? 




karan.1970 said:


> That's the party line. The reality is that Jinnah's Pakistan today has become synonyms with International terrorism due to its flawed policy of trying to gain asymmetric power thru the use of terrorists and is fighting an existential battle to prevent terrorists from taking over the country



Ah the true bharati speaks. 

Do tag me on this forum when your own country didn't use terrorists for different reasons(like it did at different times) and Pakistan has been boycotted, sidelined and isolated world over by everyone being a terrorist country. Till then your rant is useless and won't hold much weight than the gibberish of a troll who is frustrated over violence in his toota hua atoot ang.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

karan.1970 said:


> With no independent media reports allowed in the region, how do you know they are not saying it ?


Because hundreds of thousands of residents from FATA are now living outside of FATA (where independent media reporters do have access) in TDP camps and with friends and family.



karan.1970 said:


> It could also be covert targeted assassinations of key perpetrators like those used to be seen during cold war era.


Personally I would not have any problems with some kind of "covert assassination of HS" - it would actually be beneficial for Pakistan in that problematic militant leadership is eliminated without the Pakistani government having to open yet another war front with these groups, on top of the current conflict with the TTP. However, the downside of India assassinating the current leadership of these groups is that the remaining members and new leadership would almost certainly be out of Pakistani control and increase the tempo of their operations. In such a situation, if Pakistan cannot convince these groups to restrain themselves, the only option to control them would be to initiate security operations against them, which the Pakistani government will probably not do given the massive deployment of forces against the TTP currently, and so violence by these groups against India will escalate.


> But personally, given Modi and BJP's headset, the approach would be more around non violent reprisals like punitive economic policies (like those seen in the times of N. Rao's govt) and "accidental" violations of IWT that cant be proven.


Which is nothing Pakistan cannot live with ...


> Dude, you need to read my post in context of my original post. You and I (at least I) are not in a position to guarantee the approach being followed by the Pak or Indian govt. Till now, I have 0% belief in the Pakistani claims about India supporting TTP. But if the events in J&K are swiftly followed by a similar hit in Pakistan, that belief of mine will certainly be shaken. Do I want it ? Certainly not. Not because of any love lost for Pakistan, but simply because that sullies the image of India in the international community (like what has happened to Pakistan). But given the timing and the size of the terror strike in J&K, I am not sure if the doves in the govt will win this one.


Again, I am not sure how you would distinguish between a TTP terrorist attack in the near future and one sponsored by India - this is not a supermarket that you just walk into and "buy/order a terrorist attack". Operating through the TTP/AQ or one of the other motley of associated groups would require existing overt/covert Indian intelligence cooperation/connections with these groups that could be leveraged to organize an attack. So either India already has connections with these groups and has therefore already been involved in the various terrorist attacks in Pakistan, or it does not and will have a hard time developing connections to leverage in any meaningful way given the pressure these groups are under now in both Afghanistan and Pakistan.



> Why do you say that? Its not a middle ages duel that a PM can fight a PM and a father of the nation can fight a father of the nation.


Muck Fodi is a derogatory reference to the current PM of India, so the obvious counter would be a derogatory reference to the current PM of Pakistan.

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