# Quaid e Azam did NOT have a British Passport



## Tehmasib

Quaid e Azam did NOT have a British Passport. He had a British Indian passport -- a different passport for Indian slaves of the empire. On page 1B you can read that it is written "British subject by Birth" !! Quaid never applied for British citizenship nor he traveled on this passport after Pakistan was created. Quaid left the British Indian passport to become a Pakistani and lived and died here. He never walked out on Pakistan like that snake Altaf! Know the history and spread it powerfully to counter this attack on our beloved Quaid.

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## Tehmasib

Today, that snake Altaf Hussian barked against our beloved Quaid. Let us tell you the policy of Pakistan government, Quaid e Azam and Liaqat Ali Khan on dual citizenship!! Read yourself. A Man can only be loyal to one country only!!!! 

Before Pakistan was created, even Indian citizen was given a British Indian empire passport. Every Indian was a "British subject by Birth", it was written on the passport!!! Indian people were not citizens of the state, they were SUBJECTS, ruled like slaves by the crown. We shall post the pic of the passport here as well but for now read the policy of Pakistan government on dual nationality. 

DO NOT be deceived by that liar snake. Once Quaid made Pakistan, he never used British passport and never went out of Pakistan and lived an died here. Pakistan was inherited from British empire and many rules and practices existed from the colonial era but Quaid was NOT a British subject once Pakistan was created!!

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## darkinsky

Tehmasib said:


> Quaid e Azam did NOT have a British Passport. He had a British Indian passport -- a different passport for Indian slaves of the empire. On page 1B you can read that it is written "British subject by Birth" !! Quaid never applied for British citizenship nor he traveled on this passport after Pakistan was created. Quaid left the British Indian passport to become a Pakistani and lived and died here. He never walked out on Pakistan like that snake Altaf! Know the history and spread it powerfully to counter this attack on our beloved Quaid.



quaid e azam lived in britain for a long time, got educated, practiced there i guess, had british life style, he must have british citizen ship

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## graphican

darkinsky said:


> quaid e azam lived in britain for a long time, got educated, practiced there i guess, had british life style, he must have british citizen ship




I seriously doubt so. Quaid is never known to have "opted for British citizenship". MQM would need to put evidence or you they are seriously offending countrymen. 

Talking about MQM Fallas, aik maskhara "brain-farts" nikalta raha aor tum log Qaid-e-Millat ke bare wohi lines toe karne lagay.. See how intellectually "sold" and "thought concealed" this party is aro woh bhi itni besharmi se apni dual citizenship ko chupanay kay lea. Simply Condemn-able!

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## darkinsky

graphican said:


> I seriously doubt so. Quaid is never known to have "opted for British citizenship". MQM would need to put evidence or you they are seriously offending countrymen.
> 
> Talking about MQM Fallas, aik maskhara "brain-farts" nikalta raha aor tum log Qaid-e-Millat ke bare wohi lines toe karne lagay.. See how intellectually "sold" and "thought concealed" this party is aro woh bhi itni besharmi se apni dual citizenship ko chupanay kay lea. Simply Condemn-able!



well MQM has put forth some evidences you need to read and iunderstand first, second dual citizen ship itne besharam bhi nahi he, abdul qadeer khan might have dual citizen ship of netherlands, or abdul salam might have dual citizenship of italy, ager dual citizenship itni buri he to dont get credits for a dual national pakistan called abdus salam, won nobel prize for pakistan while conducting all his research facilitated by '*italy*' and not pakistan

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## Mav3rick

Tehmasib said:


> Quaid e Azam did NOT have a British Passport. He had a British Indian passport -- a different passport for Indian slaves of the empire. On page 1B you can read that it is written "British subject by Birth" !! Quaid never applied for British citizenship nor he traveled on this passport after Pakistan was created. Quaid left the British Indian passport to become a Pakistani and lived and died here. He never walked out on Pakistan like that snake Altaf! Know the history and spread it powerfully to counter this attack on our beloved Quaid.



There was no attack on Quaid-e-Azam, the teleconference was an attempt to justify dual citizenship. But let me tell you something very clearly, neither dual citizens nor citizens of other countries have harmed Pakistan more than the citizens of Pakistan. Even today, just about anybody can harm our interests and go abroad. This has been a practice for a long long time; one does not need be a dual citizen to flee abroad after ***** Pakistan. 

And I am a dual citizen too and challenge anyone to find a person more patriotic then me! Despite being a dual citizen, I live in Pakistan by choice and I serve Pakistan unlike all around me who would flee the country first chance they get. Instead of venting your frustrations on dual citizens because you are unable to go abroad, try harder and you might succeed.

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## Hyde

darkinsky said:


> quaid e azam lived in britain for a long time, got educated, practiced there i guess, had british life style, he must have british citizen ship



lol there was no such thing as British Citizenship during the Quaid's days. Technically every person living or born before 1983 in UK or it's colonies was considered British automatically and didn't require any oath. So what that means is you required the Indian passport (British Indian passport) and you could travel to UK during the Quaid's day just like any UK citizen. There was no Pakistani passport in those days so the only passport you would be getting was a British Indian Passport. The visa system of UK is not very old and you didn't expect such things 65 years ago

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## Spring Onion

Tehmasib said:


> Quaid e Azam did NOT have a British Passport. He had a British Indian passport -- a different passport for Indian slaves of the empire. On page 1B you can read that it is written "British subject by Birth" !! Quaid never applied for British citizenship nor he traveled on this passport after Pakistan was created. Quaid left the British Indian passport to become a Pakistani and lived and died here. He never walked out on Pakistan like that snake Altaf! Know the history and spread it powerfully to counter this attack on our beloved Quaid.



Non-Pakistani Altaf is just showing his monkey side once again.


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## darkinsky

Zakii said:


> lol there was no such thing as British Citizenship during the Quaid's days. Technically every person living or born before 1983 in UK or it's colonies was considered British automatically and didn't require any oath. So what that means is you required the Indian passport (British Indian passport) and you could travel to UK during the Quaid's day just like any UK citizen. There was no Pakistani passport in those days so the only passport you would be getting was a British Indian Passport. The visa system of UK is not very old and you didn't expect such things 65 years ago



so any guy born in 1980 in pakistan with pakistani passport was automatically dual british national 

so practically my father who is a pakistan is automatically dual national 

this doesnt make an ounce of sense that a guy born before 1980 in pakistan was automatically considered british national

in this way altaf also didnt take any oath because he was born before 1983


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## forcetrip

Well they are not taking part in the long march.. Sold before even setting out .. I cant say they have the best interest of this city or country anymore.

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## darkinsky

whats going on in MQM, one day altaf says, he supports, next day MQM does a press conference and says it doesnt


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## Jazzbot

After hearing about Altaf's drone attack, I'm glad that IK had already refused to join TQ long march.


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## Kompromat

Altaf is a clown, he burnt the national flag on mazar e qaid too if people have short memories here.

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## Hyde

darkinsky said:


> so any guy born in 1980 in pakistan with pakistani passport was automatically dual british national
> 
> so practically my father who is a pakistan is automatically dual national
> 
> this doesnt make an ounce of sense that a guy born before 1980 in pakistan was automatically considered british national


That is partially correct. Your dad or the guy born in 1980 could claim for British passport if he was born in Pakistan and if Pakistan was still a British Colony in 1980. Quaid-e-Azam was born in British India so he was British Indian by Birth just like any Pakistani born in Modern Pakistan would be called a Pakistani and be eligible for Pakistani passport. A Pakistani born in Pakistan wouldn't require an oath to obtain a Pakistani passport just like the people during the British India didn't require such oath to apply for British Indian passport. I remember my popho jee came to UK about 40 years ago and she didn't require any visa and travelled on ordinary Pakistani passport just because there was no visa system in UK those days. Every person from Commonwealth countries was welcomed there and didn't have any restrictions on their stay/work in UK.

You know Hong Kong was a British Colony until 1997 and most people are eligible for British passport in Hong Kong just because they were born in British Colony.



darkinsky said:


> in this way altaf also didnt take any oath because he was born before 1983


He took the oath of allegiance because after the visa system was introduced in UK, every person required to take oath to become a British citizen before they could obtain the certificate of naturalizations. Visa system, naturalization etc were alien terms during Quaid's days

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## graphican

darkinsky said:


> well MQM has put forth some evidences you need to read and iunderstand first, second dual citizen ship itne besharam bhi nahi he, abdul qadeer khan might have dual citizen ship of netherlands, or abdul salam might have dual citizenship of italy, ager dual citizenship itni buri he to dont get credits for a dual national pakistan called abdus salam, won nobel prize for pakistan while conducting all his research facilitated by '*italy*' and not pakistan



What are you calling "evidence" ? Share its link here with us. While I know anybody who media talked to rejected Altaf's claims and only MQM fallas are seen backing these claims. But I fail to understand will MQM give example of Indra Gandhi or Nehru or even Gandhi if that would support their some stance? So far MQM didn't refrain mudslinging Father of the Nation because one freak is keeping a dual citizenship by choice. 

Second, I wish you would have 1 gram of respect for Dr. Abdul Qadeer and would actually know what he was doing in netherlands and what value was given to him in Netherlands and he still came back to his country. 

Abdul-Salam ? You are sriouly confused and you are not even sure what you are talking about. Abdul-Salam never connected himself with Pakistan even though he was born Pakistani. What is he doing in all this argument? 

Let me reduce the noise which you have tried to create. Altaf Hussain is demanded by the courts and has been alleged for Murder Crimes, he escaped the country and is now living in UK and have opted for UK Citizenship by choice. The same person has tried to "defend his citizenship by choice" by bringing Father of the Nation into this equation by claiming that Father of the Nation was Dual National or Had same citizenship. This statement is not just false but a lame effort to degrade Quaid because it suites his personal cause.


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## darkinsky

Aeronaut said:


> Altaf is a clown, he burnt the national flag on mazar e qaid too if people have short memories here.



proves please

second now MQM stance will be supported by PTI perhaps


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## Mav3rick

Aeronaut said:


> Altaf is a clown, he burnt the national flag on mazar e qaid too if people have short memories here.



We don't have short memory my friend, we are just short of 'proof'. Smart people require proof before believing allegations and before judging someone. I consider you a smart person, but you are coming out as politically biased here because you have posted something which was never proved.


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## Kompromat

Mav3rick said:


> We don't have short memory my friend, we are just short of 'proof'. Smart people require proof before believing allegations and before judging someone. I consider you a smart person, but you are coming out as politically biased here because you have posted something which was never proved.









Proofs are given, to people who are ready to accept them. Some will still defend this clown, regardless of what he says and does.

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## darkinsky

Aeronaut said:


> Proofs are given, to people who are ready to accept them. Some will still defend this clown, regardless of what he says and does.



where is he burning flag in this picture? and where is written flag burning?

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## Kompromat

darkinsky said:


> where is he burning flag in this picture? and where is written flag burning?




He was sentenced for burning it, this picture is when he was sentenced.






This is a great piece of work on the banditry & militant activities of MQM, if someone wishes to read it.


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## Slav Defence

Aeronaut said:


> He was sentenced for burning it, this picture is when he was sentenced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a great piece of work on the banditry & militant activities of MQM, if someone wishes to read it.




I think this man has completely lost his mind!and after all that people will still vote his party!this is height of blindness!


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## Spring Onion

darkinsky said:


> proves please
> 
> second now MQM stance will be supported by PTI perhaps



its sad to see you are enslaved to Altaf hussain and even then you dont know his history.

MQM should be ok only if you kick this criminal mentally sick person


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## Chak Bamu

Altaf can do anything, say anything to justify his positions. Some MQMites would go on supporting him regardless. But one day the hypocrisy would get too suffocating.

I have dual nationality, and I too live in Pakistan, work here. But I sure do not think I am doing Pakistan any favors. If I ever were to contest elections, I would know what to do - Supreme Court has made it clear. Getting a right to vote is the most NRPs can hope for and if any among them wish to contest elections they have to make their minds as to which country they wish to represent.

A person who abandons Pakistan for some other country and thinks he can run a political party is basically a hypocrite. People who support him share his hypocrisy. I am just glad MQM is never going to make it in the rest of the country, at least as long as this clown leads it.

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## HappinessMark!

Since Quaid and Gandhi had made an ardous bloody struggle to get separated from British occupation. So, technically and logically they actually hated to be the british citizen that is why they made long struggles for Sole Pakistan and India. If I had made a fierce struggle not to be British explicitly then there is no point to refer Quaid a similar case...Can Altaf make a struggle to show us that why Pakistan virtually is enslaved to the west policies and we have no option to get apart from them to get PEACE which is deteriorated from a decade due to the war indulgence of OTHERS...


Below are the views of Maryum Jinnah (his wife):
She was a fierce supporter of India for Indians and many years later when asked about rumours of Jinnah's possible knighthood and whether she would like to be Lady Jinnah, she snapped that she would rather be separated from her husband* than take on an English title.*

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## Chak Bamu

??? ?? ????? - ?BBC Urdu? - ????? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ??? !?

Pls see for details. It is in Urdu though - might be a problem for some. But informative regardless.


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## Mav3rick

Aeronaut said:


> Proofs are given, to people who are ready to accept them. Some will still defend this clown, regardless of what he says and does.



This is proof? of AH and his friends burning the flag????

Aeronaut, seriously mate I though better of you, however I stand corrected.

Edit: @Zakii .... Sorry mate, my mistake


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## Hyde

Mav3rick said:


> This is proof? of AH and his friends burning the flag????
> 
> Zakii, seriously mate I though better of you, however I stand corrected.


Zakii? you really talking to me?


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## Mav3rick

Chak Bamu said:


> Altaf can do anything, say anything to justify his positions. Some MQMites would go on supporting him regardless. But one day the hypocrisy would get too suffocating.
> 
> I have dual nationality, and I too live in Pakistan, work here. But I sure do not think I am doing Pakistan any favors. If I ever were to contest elections, I would know what to do - Supreme Court has made it clear. Getting a right to vote is the most NRPs can hope for and if any among them wish to contest elections they have to make their minds as to which country they wish to represent.
> 
> A person who abandons Pakistan for some other country and thinks he can run a political party is basically a hypocrite. People who support him share his hypocrisy. I am just glad MQM is never going to make it in the rest of the country, at least as long as this clown leads it.



Your ignorance is typical of anti-MQM elements, further fueled by antics of AH!

But you must understand, AH did not abandon Pakistan, he had to leave the country to avoid death as he carried a "wanted: dead or alive" warrant on his head!!! That is only issued when a person is wanted 'dead'!

People have all so often towed the same old unproven myth of AH burning the flag and many other things. Infact there was an FIR registered against AH for stealing a constables cap! I mean how can educated people not see through the lines, I can understand that the way AH is behaving on camera is not helping matters but come on guys, think!!! There there comes in 12th May and how MQM supposedly attacked a well known TV channel, I mean really why don't educated guys stop and say to themselves 'Hold on, would any political party with larger political asperations attack a news channel while holding party flag??'. 

That's literally the biggest giveaway, MQM is called a party of assassins and target killers who are never traced, never caught and never prosecuted then why was MQM stupid enough on May 12 to use guys to attack a TV Channel while they advertised their party....unless, it was a major conspiracy to malign the name of MQM. There are so many ifs and buts without proof and we all believe what we want to believe, that is the sad reality.


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## Mav3rick

Post edited, my mistake


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## HappinessMark!

Mav3rick said:


> Your ignorance is typical of anti-MQM elements, further fueled by antics of AH!
> 
> But you must understand, AH did not abandon Pakistan, he had to leave the country to avoid death as he carried a "wanted: dead or alive" warrant on his head!!! That is only issued when a person is wanted 'dead'!
> 
> People have all so often towed the same old unproven myth of AH burning the flag and many other things. Infact there was an FIR registered against AH for stealing a constables cap! I mean how can educated people not see through the lines, I can understand that the way AH is behaving on camera is not helping matters but come on guys, think!!! There there comes in 12th May and how MQM supposedly attacked a well known TV channel, I mean really why don't educated guys stop and say to themselves 'Hold on, would any political party with larger political asperations attack a news channel while holding party flag??'.
> 
> That's literally the biggest giveaway, MQM is called a party of assassins and target killers who are never traced, never caught and never prosecuted then why was MQM stupid enough on May 12 to use guys to attack a TV Channel while they advertised their party....unless, it was a major conspiracy to malign the name of MQM. There are so many ifs and buts without proof and we all believe what we want to believe, that is the sad reality.



I have one question, if I am leader and for example I face death (say falsely) but I love my country and wanted to remain leader and serve the nation. If i know that constitution due to dual would hamper me to serve the nation, so if I am true leader than I would decline to get such nationality. There are the other leaders (like Pervez), have they all accepted dual nationality? was it the only way to seek asylum in UK? If I am a political leader and I may stay in Eurorpe for all my life but if I have to serve the nation then I would not go for dual nationality? if I have swored to UK and still I am more patriotic to Pakistan then my promise to ALLAH for UK's loyality is a deception not only to my patriotism but to the devine as well...


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## Chak Bamu

Mav3rick said:


> Your ignorance is typical of anti-MQM elements, further fueled by antics of AH!
> 
> But you must understand, AH did not abandon Pakistan, he had to leave the country to avoid death as he carried a "wanted: dead or alive" warrant on his head!!! That is only issued when a person is wanted 'dead'!
> 
> People have all so often towed the same old unproven myth of AH burning the flag and many other things. Infact there was an FIR registered against AH for stealing a constables cap! I mean how can educated people not see through the lines, I can understand that the way AH is behaving on camera is not helping matters but come on guys, think!!! There there comes in 12th May and how MQM supposedly attacked a well known TV channel, I mean really why don't educated guys stop and say to themselves 'Hold on, would any political party with larger political asperations attack a news channel while holding party flag??'.
> 
> That's literally the biggest giveaway, MQM is called a party of assassins and target killers who are never traced, never caught and never prosecuted then why was MQM stupid enough on May 12 to use guys to attack a TV Channel while they advertised their party....unless, it was a major conspiracy to malign the name of MQM. There are so many ifs and buts without proof and we all believe what we want to believe, that is the sad reality.



My friend, we are not all simpletons here. We know how to look at information and interpret it.

AH can come to Pakistan and clarify his position and get justice from courts. If he respects rule of law, that is. When AH threatens journalists and says he did not do it, when he tries to make SC controversial and apologizes, when he says he is against the government and never thinks of leaving it, WE the people can guess what else is written between the lines. As I said we are not simpletons here.

There is a limit to what can be defended with logic and decency. MQMites use neither. When PML-N rebuffed MQM overtures a couple of years ago, MQM leaders showed their real face in front of the camera. They may use mighty fine Urdu to broadcast high and noble sentiments, but we know better now...

Do not defend 12 May. There is no way anyone can do that. It was MQM who started it, and Pashtuns made them pay for it. Talat Hussain is a journalist with high integrity and lot of respect. Why do you not ask him what happened. He was describing the attack on Aaj TV as it happened. Ask Sherry Rehman, whose vehicle was stuck in the cross-fire between miscreants who were firing from Overhead bridges and guards who were with political leaders going to receive CJP at the Airport? Are you going to tell me that the miscreants dropped from the sky that day? Bloody Musharraf croaked about the violence in his RENT-A-RALLY that evening - Dekhi meri taqat? MQM was in his pocket and he used it with MQM's full assent. No one can tell me that Establishment did this or that to MQM after its having been part of the government for the last ten years and for having supported Musharraf for years earlier. Let me re-iterate, we are not fools here.

MQMites can at best point fingers at this and that party for having done this or that. But they can not defend themselves for having done what they have. Uzar-e-Gunah Badtar az Gunah...

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## Slav Defence

Chak Bamu said:


> Altaf can do anything, say anything to justify his positions. Some MQMites would go on supporting him regardless. But one day the hypocrisy would get too suffocating.
> 
> I have dual nationality, and I too live in Pakistan, work here. But I sure do not think I am doing Pakistan any favors. If I ever were to contest elections, I would know what to do - Supreme Court has made it clear. Getting a right to vote is the most NRPs can hope for and if any among them wish to contest elections they have to make their minds as to which country they wish to represent.
> 
> A person who abandons Pakistan for some other country and thinks he can run a political party is basically a hypocrite. People who support him share his hypocrisy. I am just glad MQM is never going to make it in the rest of the country, at least as long as this clown leads it.



*Where is his long march now?about which he announced and termed it as so called Drone attack??why isn't he brave enough like Benazir Bhutto to come back no matter how much his life is danger?*


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## Chak Bamu

His drone attack was supposed to be against SC if his apology were to be rejected. It was just a hedge. We have this speech instead. This is the opinion of many analysts and journalists.


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## airmarshal

See the MQM somersault. On the very last day they backed out of long march. 

And MQM followers think everyone is a fool. Even those who had soft corner for MQM have seen their real face. Only yesterday their comical leader was thundering from London about the long march. In one evening, he changed his stance. 

MQM is a joker party. Its leader is the biggest fool on earth. Its in govt. for last years and 10 years and think people will believe them when they talk about 'revolution' or 'change'. MQM playing victim is not working either.

Try asking for a separate province and see Sindhis blowing your a$$ off! Enough of your dramas.

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## Dushmann

I like the words 'Indian Empire' on the passport.


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## KRAIT

But there was no India before partition.


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## somebozo

Altaf Hussien and his illegal immigrant gangs have exposed their true face of treason nothing else.
Now its high time to take action against MQM has a foreign conspirator and begin the expulsion of their crime mafia from Karachi.











*
Pakistan should pass regulations like Turkey. Passing accusations and negative remarks about Quaid should be tried under treason against state.*

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## Emmie

KRAIT said:


> But there was no India before partition.



Yeah, but how is it relevant?_ British India _is clearly readable there!

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## Emmie

AH you are better off in Britain, there's no place for you in Quaid's Pakistan. You are a heap of poop how could you compare yourself with one of the charismatic leaders of the world? Aukat dekh laini cheyay apni bat kerne see pehle!

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## Mav3rick

somebozo said:


> Altaf Hussien and his illegal immigrant gangs have exposed their true face of treason nothing else.
> Now its high time to take action against MQM has a foreign conspirator and begin the expulsion of their crime mafia from Karachi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Pakistan should pass regulations like Turkey. Passing accusations and negative remarks about Quaid should be tried under treason against state.*



Illegal immigrants? What can one say after this?



HappinessMark! said:


> I have one question, if I am leader and for example I face death (say falsely) but I love my country and wanted to remain leader and serve the nation. If i know that constitution due to dual would hamper me to serve the nation, so if I am true leader than I would decline to get such nationality. There are the other leaders (like Pervez), have they all accepted dual nationality? was it the only way to seek asylum in UK? If I am a political leader and I may stay in Eurorpe for all my life but if I have to serve the nation then I would not go for dual nationality? if I have swored to UK and still I am more patriotic to Pakistan then my promise to ALLAH for UK's loyality is a deception not only to my patriotism but to the devine as well...



And the answer to your question is that you would seek asylum in UK still as the constitution does not bar anyone from being a leader of a political party especially since you would have no aspirations to hold public officer, ever. AH has never held any public officer, nor wishes to hold it ever and that is why there is no issue with his dual citizenship!

If only you actually knew the constitution!!!

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## RiazHaq

darkinsky said:


> quaid e azam lived in britain for a long time, got educated, practiced there i guess, had british life style, he must have british citizen ship



It's not a question of which passport he held. Quaid-e-Azam had to pledge allegiance to the British Crown as the governor general of Pakistan, the top representative of the British monarch in the country. This is not a criticism but a statement of fact.

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## airmarshal

darkinsky said:


> quaid e azam lived in britain for a long time, got educated, practiced there i guess, had british life style, he must have british citizen ship



kya laanti baat kaheeh app nay.



RiazHaq said:


> It's not a question of which passport he held. Quaid-e-Azam had to pledge allegiance to the British Crown as the governor general of Pakistan, the top representative of the British monarch in the country. This is not a criticism but a statement of fact.



So he can be eqyuated with Altaf Hussain right? What a twisted and stupid logic you MQM followers have. I think not just your leader but you also need to check in a mental health facility.

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## RiazHaq

airmarshal said:


> So he can be eqyuated with Altaf Hussain right? What a twisted and stupid logic you MQM followers have. I think not just your leader but you also need to check in a mental health facility.



Was Quaid-e-Azam not the first governor general of Pakistan? 

Did he not take an oath to serve the British monarch as King George VI's high representative in Pakistan?

Your nonsensical response to a factual statement just shows you really don't have a rational stand on this subject!! So you resort to bigotry instead!!!

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## airomerix

RiazHaq said:


> Was Quaid-e-Azam not the first governor general of Pakistan?
> 
> Did he not take an oath to serve the British monarch as King George VI's high representative in Pakistan?
> 
> Your nonsensical response to a factual statement just shows you really don't have a rational stand on this subject!! So you resort to bigotry instead!!!



To which King George VI is your Altaf Bhai representing here in Pakistan?

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## curioususer



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## curioususer




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## rubyjackass

Lol. Looks like Altaf bhai ruffled a few feathers here. But it seems to me that whatever he said is technically correct as always.


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## arushbhai

Andromache said:


> Non-Pakistani Altaf is just showing his monkey side once again.



No actually, he is pretty smart. He is just testing how baigherat we pakistanis are. So far he has been very successful. You know whats next? "Lets break sindh from pakistan" By Altaf Bhagora.


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## Mav3rick

arushbhai said:


> No actually, he is pretty smart. He is just testing how baigherat we pakistanis are. So far he has been very successful. You know whats next? "Lets break sindh from pakistan" By Altaf Bhagora.



I don't believe your bigoted post requires a response but for the sake of others, the next step may most likely be demand of division of Sindh into 2 provinces which is very much needed now especially when interior Sindh wants to be governed by the old commissioner rule system and Karachi/Hyderabad/Sukkhar etc. want to be under the much more appropriate LG system.


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## Chak Bamu

Mav3rick said:


> Illegal immigrants? What can one say after this?



Bad choice of words, but try to understand the sentiments behind this outburst. It is not anti-Urdu speaking (people), it is anti-Muhajir (identity popularized by MQM). Many Pakistanis do understand the narrative popularized by MQM within their support areas. Most of us do not agree with that narrative - in fact it is offensive in many ways. @haviZsultan has an excellent thread on it, if you wish to read it. You might then understand this negative outburst.




Mav3rick said:


> And the answer to your question is that you would seek asylum in UK still as the constitution does not bar anyone from being a leader of a political party especially since you would have no aspirations to hold public officer, ever. AH has never held any public officer, nor wishes to hold it ever and that is why there is no issue with his dual citizenship!
> 
> If only you actually knew the constitution!!!



When SC's interpretation prohibits dual-nationality holders from contesting elections in Pakistan (a position virtually 100% supported areas outside of MQM influence), then one can only guess how would AH's leadership of a political party would be viewed. It is not an issue really. The fact that AH & MQM is trying to make it an issue shows you what is their mentality. It is not an issue with anything to do with constitution. If MQM feels that this has anything to do with constitution, then they may ask SC for a judgement. But of course this is never going to happen. I hope EC asks SC someday. We might be rid of AH. MQM without AH would have a positive role to play in my view. AH is wrecking MQM.

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## Chak Bamu

RiazHaq said:


> It's not a question of which passport he held. Quaid-e-Azam had to pledge allegiance to the British Crown as the governor general of Pakistan, the top representative of the British monarch in the country. This is not a criticism but a statement of fact.



This statement of fact misses the point that Pakistan did not have a constitution until 1956! Any modern state needs a head of state. The King of England filled that nominal role. 

Now that we DO have a constitution, interpretation of which leads to banning dual nationality holders from contesting elections, why is it an issue for AH? Because it undermines his position as head of a party that contests elections in Pakistan.


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## HappinessMark!

Dushmann said:


> I like the words 'Indian Empire' on the passport.



Queen victoria's title was 'Indian empress'


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## Dushmann

curioususer said:


>



is there anything special on this page? I can't make out anything


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## darkinsky

Mav3rick said:


> Illegal immigrants? What can one say after this?



this bhangi is actually is a racist bigot who speaks openly against all urdu speakers, not just MQM, ignore him at best


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## Al Bhatti

Dushmann said:


> is there anything special on this page? I can't make out anything



On the right side page it is a visa granted (without any fee) to him by the diplomatic commission of the Kingdom of Iraq in London on 13/12/1946 and signed by the Consul.

On the left side page it is probably the entry stamp dated 20/12/1946

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## Mian H Amin.

well MQM is just a cunt .


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## somebozo

Quaid did not have a British Passport..

He had a British Indian Passport, the defacto Indian travel document during British colonial rule over India..and the terriority of Passport reads as "Indian Empire" not "British Empire" or "Great Britain" !

So much of Altaf propaganda, this exposes his true intention and respect towards Pakistan and its founders..
British Bulldog owned by the queen is what Altaf really is!


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## haviZsultan

arushbhai said:


> No actually, he is pretty smart. He is just testing how baigherat we pakistanis are. So far he has been very successful. You know whats next? "Lets break sindh from pakistan" By Altaf Bhagora.



He has already stated Pakistan shouldn't exist so I don't really have a clue what else he actually has to say. 

Altaf is a terrorist but the only way to deal with him are people from his own community. A massive rejection of Altaf by us Karachites can result in his destruction. By the way this sparked a larger amount of debate than his speech on partition which more openly and clearly called partition a mistake and made the sacrifices of each migrant who moved from ancestral lands with only the word Pakistan on their lips look like a joke. 

It horrifies me how no one protested this, not a single one in our family even though all these uncles had seen how difficult it had been to move and how much we had believed in Pakistan. It would not be a lie that MQM is the representative of a decline in migrants sense of Nationalism and their solid belief in Pakistan which is sad. The support resonates out of a variety of factors prevalent in all parties feeding on ethno-fascist ideologies and MQM is undeniably one of them
@Chak Bamu is speaking of this thread here. A number of points covered in this thread:
-The myth of MQM and Muhajir being one or in other words the MQM being the representative of all so-called "Muhajirs".
-Analysis of MQM policy, statistics on murders committed by MQM from charts, graphs and reports. 
-Analysis of "Muhajir" identity itself and the shortfalls of the term, the falseness of it. 
-Analysis of true ethnicity-The fundamental question that is the real ethnic group Bihari, Lucknowi, Delhi Muslim or "Muhajir" as muhajirs share no common culture, language or history, it is an amalgamation of various cultures. 
-Solutions to the (debatable) myth of Muhajir identity. (We are at this stage in this debate)
-Debate over the solutions and their practicality (In my next response to Chak Bamu we will move here)

To date it is the best discussion on Muhajir identity ever on this forum or perhaps anywhere else. Now moving away from this defense of MQM and its supporters deflecting blame, in my next post I can begin discussing things which make it impossible for Altaf to compare himself to a leader of Lord Jinnah's caliber.


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## xyxmt

darkinsky said:


> quaid e azam lived in britain for a long time, got educated, practiced there i guess, had british life style, he must have british citizen ship



Indian under British control were allowed to travel, stay and get education in England, big deal was getting the passport but once you had it you could travel to England as if it is a British passport


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## Kambojaric

Sigh, only in Pakistan can a man who burns the nations flag at the tomb of its founding father be considered an important national politician 
The guy is a joke, and is doing a big disservice to MQM and the urdu speaking community.

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## A.Rafay

Aeronaut said:


> Altaf is a clown, he burnt the national flag on mazar e qaid too if people have short memories here.



What is that true! He surely is not a Pakistani Now, He shouldn't be allowed to lead a party in Pakistan its unconstitutional for a person who says Pakistan was Blunder on foreign soil, Offends feelings of pakistanis and talk trash about the Leader of Nation.

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## Mav3rick

Chak Bamu said:


> Bad choice of words, but try to understand the sentiments behind this outburst. It is not anti-Urdu speaking (people), it is anti-Muhajir (identity popularized by MQM). Many Pakistanis do understand the narrative popularized by MQM within their support areas. Most of us do not agree with that narrative - in fact it is offensive in many ways. @haviZsultan has an excellent thread on it, if you wish to read it. You might then understand this negative outburst.



The Mohajir identity was not coined by the urdu speaking Mohajirs, neither were the problems that rooted out of their loyalty and support for Fatima Jinnah (instead of Field Marshal Ayub Khan). I have posted many informative things from the sacrifices the migrants made to the freedom struggles where most of the residents of Punjab & Sindh had no participation and Khan of Kalat (ANP) etc. openly voted against Pakistan. Your outburst, whether you understand it or not, is actually against urdu speaking migrants, whom I consider more of a claimant then those who never lifted a finger for this freedom!!!





Chak Bamu said:


> When SC's interpretation prohibits dual-nationality holders from contesting elections in Pakistan (a position virtually 100% supported areas outside of MQM influence), then one can only guess how would AH's leadership of a political party would be viewed. It is not an issue really. The fact that AH & MQM is trying to make it an issue shows you what is their mentality. It is not an issue with anything to do with constitution. If MQM feels that this has anything to do with constitution, then they may ask SC for a judgement. But of course this is never going to happen. I hope EC asks SC someday. We might be rid of AH. MQM without AH would have a positive role to play in my view. AH is wrecking MQM.



Supreme Courts interpretation is open to all those why have reasoning skills. They have ordered Election Commission of Pakistan to go after Assembly members (National & Provincial), Senate members etc., in essence the SC has ordered the ECP to go after all dual citizens, and those dual citizens & the elected PPP, pissing on your constitution has posted them as special advisers to the same positions. Point to note here is that SC never said a word about a dual citizen leading a political party as the constitution does not prohibit it.

And I agree with your views that AH is wrecking havoc with MQM, I don't know what has happened to him in the past 10-15 years.



Mian H Amin. said:


> well MQM is just a cunt .



They say the same about you.


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## Mav3rick

haviZsultan said:


> He has already stated Pakistan shouldn't exist so I don't really have a clue what else he actually has to say.



Well aren't some of you outright bloody liars??? I would have been the first voice against MQM & AH had AH said anything about the existence of Pakistan!





haviZsultan said:


> Altaf is a terrorist but the only way to deal with him are people from his own community. A massive rejection of Altaf by us Karachites can result in his destruction. By the way this sparked a larger amount of debate than his speech on partition which more openly and clearly called partition a mistake and made the sacrifices of each migrant who moved from ancestral lands with only the word Pakistan on their lips look like a joke.



And literally anyone who still does not consider the partition to be a cruel joke on Pakistan after the 1971 debacle is a real fool. All those who still consider the partition to be correct after losing half the country are, well they are beyond any case worth spending time upon.



Bamxa said:


> Sigh, only in Pakistan can a man who burns the nations flag at the tomb of its founding father be considered an important national politician
> The guy is a joke, and is doing a big disservice to MQM and the urdu speaking community.



And only in Pakistan can people still believe those lies, despite lack of a single shred of evidence because their bigoted minds cannot accept reality.



Bamxa said:


> Sigh, only in Pakistan can a man who burns the nations flag at the tomb of its founding father be considered an important national politician
> The guy is a joke, and is doing a big disservice to MQM and the urdu speaking community.



And only in Pakistan can people still believe those lies, despite lack of a single shred of evidence because their bigoted minds cannot accept reality.



Bamxa said:


> Sigh, only in Pakistan can a man who burns the nations flag at the tomb of its founding father be considered an important national politician
> The guy is a joke, and is doing a big disservice to MQM and the urdu speaking community.



And only in Pakistan can people still believe those lies, despite lack of a single shred of evidence because their bigoted minds cannot accept reality.



Bamxa said:


> Sigh, only in Pakistan can a man who burns the nations flag at the tomb of its founding father be considered an important national politician
> The guy is a joke, and is doing a big disservice to MQM and the urdu speaking community.



And only in Pakistan can people still believe those lies, despite lack of a single shred of evidence because their bigoted minds cannot accept reality.



Bamxa said:


> Sigh, only in Pakistan can a man who burns the nations flag at the tomb of its founding father be considered an important national politician
> The guy is a joke, and is doing a big disservice to MQM and the urdu speaking community.



And only in Pakistan can people still believe those lies, despite lack of a single shred of evidence because their bigoted minds cannot accept reality.


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## somebozo

Mav3rick said:


> Well aren't some of you outright bloody liars??? I would have been the first voice against MQM & AH had AH said anything about the existence of Pakistan!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And literally anyone who still does not consider the partition to be a cruel joke on Pakistan after the 1971 debacle is a real fool. All those who still consider the partition to be correct after losing half the country are, well they are beyond any case worth spending time upon.
> 
> 
> 
> And only in Pakistan can people still believe those lies, despite lack of a single shred of evidence because their bigoted minds cannot accept reality.
> 
> 
> 
> And only in Pakistan can people still believe those lies, despite lack of a single shred of evidence because their bigoted minds cannot accept reality.
> 
> 
> 
> And only in Pakistan can people still believe those lies, despite lack of a single shred of evidence because their bigoted minds cannot accept reality.
> 
> 
> 
> And only in Pakistan can people still believe those lies, despite lack of a single shred of evidence because their bigoted minds cannot accept reality.
> 
> 
> 
> And only in Pakistan can people still believe those lies, despite lack of a single shred of evidence because their bigoted minds cannot accept reality.



Lets me put it this way...you are one of those Karahchite Bhagoras from 1990's anti-MQM operation now struggling in Austrlia and taking to keyboard for your frustration venting!


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## Chak Bamu

Mav3rick said:


> The Mohajir identity was not coined by the urdu speaking Mohajirs, neither were the problems that rooted out of their loyalty and *support for Fatima Jinnah *(instead of Field Marshal Ayub Khan). I have posted many informative things from the sacrifices the migrants made to the freedom struggles where most of the *residents of Punjab & Sindh had no participation* and Khan of Kalat (ANP) etc. openly voted against Pakistan. Your outburst, whether you understand it or not, is actually against *urdu speaking migrants, whom I consider more of a claimant *then those who never lifted a finger for this freedom!!!



If this identity (as you call it) was not coined by Urdu speaking Mohajirs, then why are you hell-bent on using it? You know how offensive this is to others who came here, having fought, walked, bled, sickened on the way. 

I would like to know if any of your ancestors had to fight off Sikhs? Mine did and kicked some serious a**.

I would like to know how and when your ancestors got to Pakistan. Mine had to move to camps where wells were poisoned. They had to walk with Sikhs stalking all around and bloody Dogra soldiers doing nothing. All the people in the caravan attempted mass suicide but were discovered by an English officer who sent Baloch Regiment jawans to escort them. My father, my grandfather, my uncles walked on foot to Toba Tek Singh from Jallandhar. Yes the same Toba, which voted over-whelmingly for Fatima Jinnah. This is my story. What is yours?

My Grand father left his home to mobilize support for Muslim League so that our extended Biradari would vote en-masse for Muslim League and Pakistan - yes he was a worker in Pakistan Movement. What did yours do?

One of my elderly relatives has a CERTIFICATE hanging in his bedroom acknowledging his contribution to the Pakistan movement, given by GOP. Let us hear from you if you have anything like this in your family. Anything?

How dare you belittle the sacrifice and achievement of others? See this is EXACTLY the type of arrogance for which MQM's so-called Mohajirs are known all around the country. You think you are the only ones who sacrificed? You think you are the only ones worthy of this country? You think that you are so high up the ladder of morality that all should bow to your greatness? THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I HATE ALTAF HUSSAIN. He has taken seedlings of misconception and nurtured them into jungles of prejudice. If Sindhis had not been part of our struggle, why in Allah's name would they be in Pakistan and be right there to welcome the refugees, whose descendants now look down upon them? 

Why is there this talk of carving up Sindh with its precious resources taken over by the people, some of whom look down upon Sindhis? The same Sindhis who welcomed your ancestors in the name of Islam. Is there justice in this Pakistan of ours? Dare anyone remind you that Karachi belongs to the whole of Pakistan courtesy of Sindhis to begin with? You think your ancestors gave up more. Ask Sindhis what they got from Pakistan... 





Mav3rick said:


> Supreme Courts interpretation is open to all those why have reasoning skills. They have ordered Election Commission of Pakistan to go after Assembly members (National & Provincial), Senate members etc., in essence the SC has ordered the ECP to go after all dual citizens, and those dual citizens & the elected PPP, pissing on your constitution has posted them as special advisers to the same positions. Point to note here is that SC never said a word about a dual citizen leading a political party as the constitution does not prohibit it.



Reasoning skills go only so far with pre-conceived opinions obstructing the way. It is just convenient to argue against common-sense that AH has any right to tell legislators how to vote and what to legislate. Did you see all the senior MQM leaders with pencils and pads, because this clown and fool was giving them a lecture of treachery? What do you suppose was going on in their minds as they were hearing his .... well I like to compare his utterings to the desperate baying of a wayward Buffalo calf looking for its mother. Really, no joke - That is how he sounds. Honest.

The MQM legislators have to be citizens of Pakistan and Pakistan only. Yet the big Don who tells them how to vote and what to legislate is sitting in England with a British passport and an oath to obey & honor the queen and to accept the superiority of Church of England in spiritual matters. This same Don gets to dictate what goes on in the commercial capital of Pakistan. And people like you somehow feel compelled to obey him and to defend his nonsense.



Mav3rick said:


> And I agree with your views that AH is wrecking havoc with MQM, I don't know what has happened to him in the past 10-15 years.



He did not change. He just showed his true colors. He is a coward, just as he always was. He is a manipulator, just as he always was. He is just as much a liar as he always has been. Nothing different, just clearer.

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## Chak Bamu

Mav3rick said:


> And literally anyone who still does not consider the partition to be a cruel joke on Pakistan after the 1971 debacle is a real fool. All those who still consider the partition to be correct after losing half the country are, well they are beyond any case worth spending time upon.



You consider partition to be a joke, good for you. Keep this poison to yourself and your community. 1971 debacle was not a simple affair. And let me remind you that the beginnings of it had something to do with demeanor and dealings of ICS officers from West Pakistan. Most of these ICS officers were from Urdu-speaking regions of UP/CP and they felt so superior to their fellow Pakistanis that our Bengali brothers found no difference between them and the departed British. Bengalis hated them and called them Punjabis. To Bengalis, all those who came from West Pakistan were 'Punjabis'.

Ghulam Muhammad, the despicable Governor General of Pakistan was just such an ICS officer who played havoc with governments while he ruled Pakistan from Karachi. Guess his background? 

Iskandar Mirza, the breaker of Pakistan's 1956 constitution (made with untiring efforts of Chaudhry Muhammad Ali - a distant relative of mine) was an ethnic Bengali with Urdu-speaking background. He paved the way for Ayub Khan's Martial Law.

So you see the so-called Muhajir community has its fair share in our collective misfortunes. *I am not denying the sacrifice and contribution of our Urdu-speaking brothers.* I am just pointing out inconvenient facts for the benefit of those who need to take a look in the mirror so that they can see how they look to others.

Do not go all high and holy and pontiff-like. 1971 happened because people in West Pakistan were not equal to the vision of Pakistan. Had they considered Bengalis brothers in Islam and brothers in nation, we would not have seen what we saw leading up to 1971. Bengalis did not have significantly more problems with Ayub Khan than us in West Pakistan. It was discrimination they felt. One can feel this same bloody discrimination when one hears Altaf moan and groan about how HIS people have been wronged. Only so-called Mohajirs feel self-righteous about his bayings. Do they pause to think how it all sounds to the rest of us Pakistanis? What gives them the right to look down upon Pashtuns, just as they had looked down upon Bengalis. What gives them the right to look down upon Punjabis, just as they had looked down upon Bengalis. What gives them the right to look down upon Sindhis, just as they had looked down upon Bengalis. And they live in Sindh for crying out loud. Oh the hypocrisy...

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## 474474

Chak Bamu said:


> If this identity (as you call it) was not coined by Urdu speaking Mohajirs, then why are you hell-bent on using it? You know how offensive this is to others who came here, having fought, walked, bled, sickened on the way.
> 
> I would like to know if any of your ancestors had to fight off Sikhs? Mine did and kicked some serious a**.
> 
> I would like to know how and when your ancestors got to Pakistan. Mine had to move to camps where wells were poisoned. They had to walk with Sikhs stalking all around and bloody Dogra soldiers doing nothing. All the people in the caravan attempted mass suicide but were discovered by an English officer who sent Baloch Regiment jawans to escort them. My father, my grandfather, my uncles walked on foot to Toba Tek Singh from Jallandhar. Yes the same Toba, which voted over-whelmingly for Fatima Jinnah. This is my story. What is yours?
> 
> My Grand father left his home to mobilize support for Muslim League so that our extended Biradari would vote en-masse for Muslim League and Pakistan - yes he was a worker in Pakistan Movement. What did yours do?
> 
> One of my elderly relatives has a CERTIFICATE hanging in his bedroom acknowledging his contribution to the Pakistan movement, given by GOP. Let us hear from you if you have anything like this in your family. Anything?
> 
> How dare you belittle the sacrifice and achievement of others? See this is EXACTLY the type of arrogance for which MQM's so-called Mohajirs are known all around the country. You think you are the only ones who sacrificed? You think you are the only ones worthy of this country? You think that you are so high up the ladder of morality that all should bow to your greatness? THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I HATE ALTAF HUSSAIN. He has taken seedlings of misconception and nurtured them into jungles of prejudice. If Sindhis had not been part of our struggle, why in Allah's name would they be in Pakistan and be right there to welcome the refugees, whose descendants now look down upon them?
> 
> Why is there this talk of carving up Sindh with its precious resources taken over by the people, some of whom look down upon Sindhis? The same Sindhis who welcomed your ancestors in the name of Islam. Is there justice in this Pakistan of ours? Dare anyone remind you that Karachi belongs to the whole of Pakistan courtesy of Sindhis to begin with? You think your ancestors gave up more. Ask Sindhis what they got from Pakistan...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reasoning skills go only so far with pre-conceived opinions obstructing the way. It is just convenient to argue against common-sense that AH has any right to tell legislators how to vote and what to legislate. Did you see all the senior MQM leaders with pencils and pads, because this clown and fool was giving them a lecture of treachery? What do you suppose was going on in their minds as they were hearing his .... well I like to compare his utterings to the desperate baying of a wayward Buffalo calf looking for its mother. Really, no joke - That is how he sounds. Honest.
> 
> The MQM legislators have to be citizens of Pakistan and Pakistan only. Yet the big Don who tells them how to vote and what to legislate is sitting in England with a British passport and an oath to obey & honor the queen and to accept the superiority of Church of England in spiritual matters. This same Don gets to dictate what goes on in the commercial capital of Pakistan. And people like you somehow feel compelled to obey him and to defend his nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> He did not change. He just showed his true colors. He is a coward, just as he always was. He is a manipulator, just as he always was. He is just as much a liar as he always has been. Nothing different, just clearer.



This is a joke, everyone struggled before the partition, EVEryone, not only you because of Sikhs, but the main thing was it was all easy afterwards, while we were the ones who had to face ethnic cleansing by the punjabis and are still denied basic rights by Sindhis
But it won't be so easy now, racists like you can do whatever you want to kill us, but you will never break us, we will fight forever Like buffalo soldiers, we are one with Pakistan and Pakistan is with us, we are here to stay, not only Karachi all of Pakistan is our home no xenophobic sub human like you could do anything to kick us out, we live and die here, but no matter what we never leave


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## Chak Bamu

I never said that only my ancestors sacrificed. I just called his bluff when he trashed people of other ethnicities. I would rather hear what he has to say about this.

I would like to hear how you can support your contention that Punjabis engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing. I would also like to know how Sindhis usurped your rights (yes I know about the quota thing).

I am not a racist. People who think that they are better than others and look down upon others are racists. I have no such problems. I just called somebody's bluff. You have a problem with that? Why do you not have a problem with someone telling that Punjabis did not make sacrifices? Why do you not have a problem with someone who is perpetuating the stereotype of so-called Muhajirs? Why? Why can I not defend people of my ethnic origin when some one dumps his prejudice upon us?

Buffalo soldier my a##.

The only place in whole of Pakistan I was made conscious of being a Punjabi was in Karachi. My only mistake was being part of Punjab's team in National games. You have the guts to call me xenophobic? What are you yourself?

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## SQ8

Chak Bamu said:


> You consider partition to be a joke, good for you. Keep this poison to yourself and your community. 1971 debacle was not a simple affair. And let me remind you that the beginnings of it had something to do with demeanor and dealings of ICS officers from West Pakistan. Most of these ICS officers were from Urdu-speaking regions of UP/CP and they felt so superior to their fellow Pakistanis that our Bengali brothers found no difference between them and the departed British. Bengalis hated them and called them Punjabis. To Bengalis, all those who came from West Pakistan were 'Punjabis'.
> 
> Ghulam Muhammad, the despicable Governor General of Pakistan was just such an ICS officer who played havoc with governments while he ruled Pakistan from Karachi. Guess his background?
> 
> Iskandar Mirza, the breaker of Pakistan's 1956 constitution (made with untiring efforts of Chaudhry Muhammad Ali - a distant relative of mine) was an ethnic Bengali with Urdu-speaking background. He paved the way for Ayub Khan's Martial Law.
> 
> So you see the so-called Muhajir community has its fair share in our collective misfortunes. I am not denying the sacrifice and contribution of our Urdu-speaking brothers. I am just pointing out inconvenient facts for the benefit of those who need to take a look in the mirror so that they can see how they look to others.
> 
> Do not go all high and holy and pontiff-like. 1971 happened because people in West Pakistan were not equal to the vision of Pakistan. Had they considered Bengalis brothers in Islam and brothers in nation, we would not have seen what we saw leading up to 1971. Bengalis did not have significantly more problems with Ayub Khan than us in West Pakistan. It was discrimination they felt. One can feel this same bloody discrimination when one hears Altaf moan and groan about how HIS people have been wronged. Only so-called Mohajirs feel self-righteous about his bayings. Do they pause to think how it all sounds to the rest of us Pakistanis? What gives them the right to look down upon Pashtuns, just as they had looked down upon Bengalis. What gives them the right to look down upon Punjabis, just as they had looked down upon Bengalis. What gives them the right to look down upon Sindhis, just as they had looked down upon Bengalis. And they live in Sindh for crying out loud. Oh the hypocrisy...



At the same time, it gives no one else the right to target any community.

The problem is, that these racial and ethnic divisions were forced upon and accepted by the people of this community.
There were massive atrocities carried out by "Mohajirs" on Punjabis, Punjabis on Bengalis.. Pathans on "Mohajirs".. etc etc etc.
In a criss cross fashion.. These nations have proven time and time again that they are not fit to be considered as a single nation.
Rather multiple ideals and selfish wishes that want to control a state.

Which is why.. Pakistanis are an extinct species.. Just Sindhis,Punjabis,Balochis,Pathans,Seriakis.. ...etc.
And now.. further into Deobandis, Bareilvis, etc etc.

And your post has just typified this mentality... Every community thinks itself as the sole flag bearer of Pakistan or has decided it wants nothing to do with.
Well.. good luck with that..may even get such a scenario where you all can have a piece of land to yourself.

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## Armstrong

@Chak Bamu : Pahaiiin zaraaa haaathh holaa rakhoooo kiii kakeiii nuuu maaarnaa ehhh ?

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## SQ8

Chak Bamu said:


> I never said that only my ancestors sacrificed. I just called his bluff when he trashed people of other ethnicities. I would rather hear what he has to say about this.
> 
> I would like to hear how you can support your contention that Punjabis engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing. I would also like to know how Sindhis usurped your rights (yes I know about the quota thing).
> 
> I am not a racist. People who think that they are better than others and look down upon others are racists. I have no such problems. I just called somebody's bluff. You have a problem with that? Why do you not have a problem with someone telling that Punjabis did not make sacrifices? Why do you not have a problem with someone who is perpetuating the stereotype of so-called Muhajirs? Why? Why can I not defend people of my ethnic origin when some one dumps his prejudice upon us?
> 
> Buffalo soldier my a##.
> 
> The only place in whole of Pakistan I was made conscious of* being a Punjabi was in Karachi*. My only mistake was being part of Punjab's team in National games. You have the guts to call me xenophobic? What are you yourself?



Interestingly.. I was made "conscious" of my being an urdu-speaker first in Karachi by Sindhi Nationalists, then Pathan Nationalists.. and then finally MQM's own...I was discriminated against using this when I was in KP or Punjab.
So it really has nothing to do with where you are, just who you are exposed to.

And the growing fault lines will only make it worse.

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## Armstrong

Oscar said:


> At the same time, it gives no one else the right to target any community.
> 
> The problem is, that these racial and ethnic divisions were forced upon and accepted by the people of this community.
> There were massive atrocities carried out by "Mohajirs" on Punjabis, Punjabis on Bengalis.. Pathans on "Mohajirs".. etc etc etc.
> In a criss cross fashion.. These nations have proven time and time again that they are not fit to be considered as a single nation.
> Rather multiple ideals and selfish wishes that want to control a state.
> 
> Which is why.. Pakistanis are an extinct species.. Just Sindhis,Punjabis,Balochis,Pathans,Seriakis.. ...etc.
> And now.. further into Deobandis, Bareilvis, etc etc.
> 
> And your post has just typified this mentality... *Every community thinks itself as the sole flag bearer of Pakistan or has decided it wants nothing to do with.*
> Well.. good luck with that..may even get such a scenario where you all can have a piece of land to yourself.



No not really; there is a reason why you don't see any of this BS in Punjab !

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## haviZsultan

Now let me talk about why Altaf has no right to compare himself to Quaid E Azam:

1) He has talked about breaking Pakistan and called partition a mistake. Quiad E Azam made Pakistan.
2) He does not talk about Pakistan, talks about a single part of Pakistan-Quiad spoke about unity.
3) Spreads hate against all ethnic groups-Quaid wanted to unite all of us.
4) Quaid condemned provincialism (equal to ethnic based politics) Altaf survives only on it.
5) Altaf murders people, Quiad won through the law, fair and square.
6) Altaf lives in london and leads his party, Quaid returned because he sincerely believed in Pakistan
7) Quaid spent his life working hard, Altaf grew up murdering innocents. 
8) Altaf asked India for help for his oppressed "muhajirs" Quaid didn't ask for help anywhere. 
8) Quaid did not have a British passport unlike Altaf.

So any comparison to Quaid is foolish.

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## SQ8

Armstrong said:


> No not really; there is a reason why you don't see any of this BS in Punjab !



Umm, actually you do ... or perhaps it just searches me out. 
I remember vividly how many times in Lahore I was called an "Indian" when during casual conversation I spoke about my family ancestry(which ironically ends up in Afghanistan and beyond). 
And these are not casual jibes.. these are differentiating examples of trying to discriminate the so-called "non-sons of soil".

Where you may not see it is within cities as frequently such as Rawalpindi or Islamabad... it happens more within areas and from people who are politically aligned.
For eg.. Rawalpindi has a large population of migrants from Dehli and surrounding areas.. 
Hence, people generally have mingled and accepted well into the fabric there.

Lahore's more cosmopolitan areas have also accepted migrants from these cities... but when you go into the more politically aligned class.. the discrimination appears. 
Its the same in Urdu-Speaking communities where other ethnicites have settled.. 
The more politically aligned people.. the more the discriminating attitude.
It does exist,



haviZsultan said:


> Now let me talk about why Altaf has no right to compare himself to Quaid E Azam:
> 
> 1) He has talked about breaking Pakistan and called partition a mistake. Quiad E Azam made Pakistan.
> 2) He does not talk about Pakistan, talks about a single part of Pakistan-Quiad spoke about unity.
> 3) Spreads hate against all ethnic groups-Quaid wanted to unite all of us.
> 4) Quaid condemned provincialism (equal to ethnic based politics) Altaf survives only on it.
> 5) Altaf murders people, Quiad won through the law, fair and square.
> 6) Altaf lives in london and leads his party, Quaid returned because he sincerely believed in Pakistan
> 7) Quaid spent his life working hard, Altaf grew up murdering innocents.
> 8) Altaf asked India for help for his oppressed "muhajirs" Quaid didn't ask for help anywhere.
> 8) Quaid did not have a British passport unlike Altaf.
> 
> So any comparison to Quaid is foolish.




Moreover... 
The Quaid was a popularly accepted leader who transcended communities.
Altaf Hussian cant get out of the areas of Karachi.

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## Chak Bamu

Let me clarify. If I did not believe in Pakistan, I would not live & work here.

I am pissed that people are so ungrateful for Pakistan. Educated Muslims could hardly aspire to anything higher than clerk-ship in united India. Read Altaf Gohar. He never imagined that he could become ICS.

All the government and private jobs, businesses, entitlements that many of us are ungrateful for could not be hoped-for by Muslims in united India. And then we have people telling us that Partition was a mistake. I say screw that. This is the poison that AH has spread. All the people crying about discrimination could not have had what they enjoy today in United India. Just look at Muslims in India. Do some of us wish for that? Apparently AH has them convinced that they ought to have been in United India. Did I just read someone call Partition a joke?

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## Armstrong

Oscar said:


> Umm, actually you do ... or perhaps it just searches me out.
> I remember vividly how many times in Lahore I was called an "Indian" when during casual conversation I spoke about my family ancestry(which ironically ends up in Afghanistan and beyond).
> And these are not casual jibes.. these are differentiating examples of trying to discriminate the so-called "non-sons of soil".
> 
> Where you may not see it is within cities as frequently such as Rawalpindi or Islamabad... it happens more within areas and from people who are politically aligned.
> For eg.. Rawalpindi has a large population of migrants from Dehli and surrounding areas..
> Hence, people generally have mingled and accepted well into the fabric there.
> 
> Lahore's more cosmopolitan areas have also accepted migrants from these cities... but when you go into the more politically aligned class.. the discrimination appears.
> Its the same in Urdu-Speaking communities where other ethnicites have settled..
> The more politically aligned people.. the more the discriminating attitude.
> It does exist,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moreover...
> The Quaid was a popularly accepted leader who transcended communities.
> Altaf Hussian cant get out of the areas of Karachi.



I'm an ethnic Kashmiri & not a son-of-the-soil if the Muhajir tag is anything to go by & I have traveled much of Punjab ! I can't recall a single instance in my 22 years of existence, my Dad's 50 or so before that or my Grandpa's 95 before that when any of us was ever made to be felt like the 'other' as if we were a different crop of people than the natives. Heck not even my verbal spats have ever included a racist slur against me despite being everything else. 

So I really don't know where you're coming from here for I've never ever experienced 'differentiation' never mind 'discrimination' here in Punjab whether in my stays in smaller cities like (Gujranwala) or my hometown Lahore. Not even my maternal Grandfather, a Punjabi born in Bijnaur who speaks Urdu with a Bijnauri's accent or his sister-in-law from Pataudi, ever experienced anything to that end ! 

Pataaa nahin tuuu kaiseee logoooon see milaa haiii ?

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## SQ8

The biggest issue which all of the people here ignore.. IS NOT.. that who had more part to play in Pakistan, or that who wronged who first and more..
But who falls prey more to political twisting of issues into ethnic colors.

for eg. 
There are two ways of reporting things.

1.
I am living in a flat which was found for me by a gentleman I had only met.. to be referred as Ch Sb.
Now Ch Sb it turn out, is a total fraud... he has been dodging bills and IoU all over the UK and has defrauded many people but alas I was not aware of this and fell into his sweet talk thanks to my own fault.
I have now chosen to avoid him because he is an uncouth character and has a bad repute. 

2. I found this place after being fooled by sm Chaudry from Gujranwala who is a total fraud and tried to fool me too. He's been insulting Pakistanis everywhere by borrowing money and running.. Typical PUnjabi character.. They ruin our image abroad.

Method 1.. is stating the same thing, but without the mirch masala of bigotry and hate. 
Method 2... is how people that end up being the Altaf Hussains or other representatives of political parties represent it. it is more popular with people because they cannot just accept frustrations to be let go without finding more avenues to blame.
And as we need scapegoats.. we listen to them.. and listen to them well.

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## SQ8

Armstrong said:


> I'm an *ethnic Kashmiri *& not a son-of-the-soil if the Muhajir tag is anything to go by & I have traveled much of Punjab ! I can't recall a single instance in my 22 years of existence, my Dad's 50 or so before that or my Grandpa's 95 before that when any of us was ever made to be felt like the 'other' as if we were a different crop of people than the natives. Heck not even my verbal spats have ever included a racist slur against me despite being everything else.
> 
> So I really don't know where you're coming from here for I've never ever experienced 'differentiation' never mind 'discrimination' here in Punjab whether in my stays in smaller cities like (Gujranwala) or my hometown Lahore. Not even my maternal Grandfather, a Punjabi born in Bijnaur who speaks Urdu with a Bijnauri's accent or his sister-in-law from Pataudi, ever experienced anything to that end !
> 
> Pataaa nahin tuuu kaiseee logoooon see milaa haiii ?



Sort of same here actually.. 

But as to why I end up seeing such people.. is perhaps because I tend to stand out..and perhaps because i just have bad luck of meeting politically aligned people.
for eg.. I stayed for two years in Peshawar.. never learnt Pushto ..
I have lived ten years in total in Punjab.. never got the Urdu accent here.. nor much of Punjabi.. 
as n eg
I did however, find myself shocked in Peshawar during my class when my Islamayat teacher in undergrad's compulsory subject.. after delivering a lecture about Muslim brotherhood. and then Praising the Quaid made the statement "Kya khabees Qaum hai Mohajir, Kutton ko wapus India pheko"

The same happened while shopping in a famous store recently.. in Rawalpindi
I was talking to my mother while putting the groceries down.. when some gentleman asks me.. "are you from India".. .to which I replied irksomely I was from karachi.. 
to which the gentleman insisted that "NO, but your family is Indian originally".. Somebody tell that idiot that in that way all of Pakistan is "Indian" originally. 

Hence, attitudes like these exist all over the country.. 
Karachi is the melting pot of Pakistan.. literally everyone is there.. 
hence you are more likely to see such attitudes there than anywhere else.

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## Chak Bamu

Oscar said:


> Umm, actually you do ... or perhaps it just searches me out.
> I remember vividly how many times in Lahore I was called an "Indian" when during casual conversation I spoke about my family ancestry(which ironically ends up in Afghanistan and beyond).
> And these are not casual jibes.. these are differentiating examples of trying to discriminate the so-called "non-sons of soil".



It is unfortunate that you were made to feel different. Happens to most of us, just because we live in a multi-ethnic country. Such things happen in India too. Dhruv, an Indian friend of mine from Delhi told me that calling a South Indian 'Madrasi' is a generic insult. So is 'Punjabi', when coming from a South Indian.

Minor things do not matter. I can brush them off with a smile or a shrug. It is the incomprehensibility of blind discrimination, seemingly without rationale or background, that hurts.

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## haviZsultan

Mav3rick said:


> Well aren't some of you outright bloody liars??? I would have been the first voice against MQM & AH had AH said anything about the existence of Pakistan!



Altaf Hussain calls creation of Pakistan the Biggest Mistake - YouTube



> And literally *anyone who still does not consider the partition to be a cruel joke on Pakistan after the 1971 debacle is a real fool. All those who still consider the partition to be correct after losing half the country are, well they are beyond any case worth spending time upon.*



Listen the hell up... we wouldn't have lost Pakistan if our families and our stupid urdu-speaking community had had the brains to rise up against Bhutto and Yahya Khan... instead we were cheering them on. You are part of the reason East Pakistan fell and you are yapping about a loss to this country as if somehow it was someone elses responsibility. You should be ashamed.

Listen up, I refuse to call myself a muhajir because of traitors to my motherland like you who have no belief whatsoever in Pakistan but I will not die a traitor to my forefathers and my family members killed by the Indian mobs-our grandfather who came to Pakistan with only the dua for Pakistan to succeed and our country to be the greatest one in the history of Pakistan. You MQM terrorists are traitors to this country and to my forefathers blood. Last time Karachite said something like this it was truly a test of my nerves and this time it is the same. 

Think before you jump off a mountain top for terror-God Altaf Hussain. Lol. You want to know how 71 happened. That is how my friend. That is how but this time we will not let you do it. 



> And only in Pakistan can people still believe those lies, despite lack of a single shred of evidence because their bigoted minds cannot accept reality.



This is laughable. An MQM terrorist from my pathetic community which spends time abusing Pashtuns, Sindhis and Punjbabis is telling me who a bigot is. I will die for my Punjabi Sindhi and Baloch brothers. If me fighting their killers makes me a bigot then I am very proud of it. But what we teach our kids... thats what they are learning. No surprise here. @Oscar is right here. We have no unity... but we are the ones who have to build it. 

If you had the ability to look at things objectively and critically then you would have found out that around 87% of all murders and target killings were of people not affiliated with the MQM so that is the most likely party to have murdered them.


Mav3rick said:


> The Mohajir identity was not coined by the urdu speaking Mohajirs, neither were the problems that rooted out of their loyalty and support for Fatima Jinnah (instead of Field Marshal Ayub Khan). I have posted many informative things from the sacrifices the migrants made to the freedom struggles *where most of the residents of Punjab & Sindh had no participation and Khan of Kalat (ANP) etc. openly voted against Pakistan.* Your outburst, whether you understand it or not, is actually against urdu speaking migrants, whom I consider more of a claimant then those who never lifted a finger for this freedom!!!



Regardless of who coined it the muhajir identity was and is adopted by this community. I have replied to the same rubbish to darkinsky. Fatima Jinnah was a national issue not remotely a muhajir issue. Stop turning it into one to claim you have been oppressed because as a Karachite I know exactly which community has been suffering abuse. 

Rubbish. Khan of Kalat voted for the formation of Pakistan and even Quaid noted it-without it Balochistan would never have come over to us. Did you forget about the Hur movement, Shaikh Abdul Majeed Sindhi, Abdul Rab Nishtar, Mir Ahmed Yar Baloch? Of course you probably didnt even know about half of them being the typical racist you are. How dare you say that other Pakistanis did nothing for Pakistan? That is an insult to all other ethnic groups in my country who are one of us. We are all leaves of one tree-if one throws vile acid on one he does so on all of us. 

Also do you MQM terrorists ever use a novelty called a brain? Do you know who Chak Bamu is? He is from Indian Punjab. He moved to Pakistan. Now when someone moves to Pakistan who does he become? A muhajir as that term is supposed to apply to all muhajirs. So basically when you insult a Punjabi and his history you are insulting muhajirs themselves but such a simple fact may not lodge itself in the scum infested brain of someone as highly educated as you unlike the rest of the people who are supposed to accept you as their Gods. 

I am seriously going to lose patience some day with people who claim partition was a mistake. It was absolutely true what Syed Jamaluddin said. He was indeed with Altaf and Altaf did want a partition of Sindh or the creation of Jinnahpur.

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## SQ8

Chak Bamu said:


> It is unfortunate that you were made to feel different. Happens to most of us, just because we live in a multi-ethnic country. Such things happen in India too. Dhruv, an Indian friend of mine from Delhi told me that calling a South Indian 'Madrasi' is a generic insult. So is 'Punjabi', when coming from a South Indian.
> 
> Minor things do not matter. I can brush them off with a smile or a shrug. It is the incomprehensibility of blind discrimination, seemingly without rationale or background, that hurts.



Thats the whole point.. its ingrained within our mindsets now.

I mean think about it.. 
There are literally tons and tons of Pathan jokes circulated about on sms and here and there.
Stereotyping the community as simpleton idiots.. 
Dont you all think it bothers them at some point.. 

Kudos to many of them who actually accept this as part of their "impression" and end up laughing at them and forwarding the same.

The difference in India though.. is that they have a democracy that is representative of their people.. and not feudals who represent power centers and not necessarily majority of opinions or people.

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## Marwat Khan Lodhi

Oscar said:


> Interestingly.. I was made "conscious" of my being an urdu-speaker first in Karachi by Sindhi Nationalists, then Pathan Nationalists.. and then finally MQM's own...I was discriminated against using this when I was in KP or Punjab.
> So it really has nothing to do with where you are, just who you are exposed to.
> 
> And the growing fault lines will only make it worse.



How exactly you were made conscious of being mohajir in KPK? What were you doing in KPK and who made you feel like that, general public there?...
Frankely speaking i think its you who is so conscious of being mohajir. If you were in peshawer then let me tell you that most of people there speak pashto but would switch to urdu for you, urdu there is business langauge along with pashto. If you were wearing pants shirt, then many people especially young ones also wear it, so no way you may have felt strange there because of your dress. If you are dark-skinned, then many people of peshawer are dark , they dont notice skin and wont make comment on it. The only way i see it , is that you may have started defending altaf bhai and MQM infront of pashtuns in majlas and in response you have to hear some thing. Tell us the truth, you have made a claim, you owe us an explaination.


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## haviZsultan

Oscar said:


> Sort of same here actually..
> 
> But as to why I end up seeing such people.. is perhaps because I tend to stand out..and perhaps because i just have bad luck of meeting politically aligned people.
> for eg.. I stayed for two years in Peshawar.. never learnt Pushto ..
> I have lived ten years in total in Punjab.. never got the Urdu accent here.. nor much of Punjabi..
> as n eg
> I did however, find myself shocked in Peshawar during my class when my Islamayat teacher in undergrad's compulsory subject.. after delivering a lecture about Muslim brotherhood. and then Praising the Quaid made the statement "Kya khabees Qaum hai Mohajir, Kutton ko wapus India pheko"
> 
> The same happened while shopping in a famous store recently.. in Rawalpindi
> I was talking to my mother while putting the groceries down.. when some gentleman asks me.. "are you from India".. .to which I replied irksomely I was from karachi..
> to which the gentleman insisted that "NO, but your family is Indian originally".. Somebody tell that idiot that in that way all of Pakistan is "Indian" originally.
> 
> Hence, attitudes like these exist all over the country..
> Karachi is the melting pot of Pakistan.. literally everyone is there..
> hence you are more likely to see such attitudes there than anywhere else.



Oscar the question here is we never tried to understand them and we are too attached to the identity too, naa... someone call anything to Muhajir or even Pashtuns, my adopted identity it doesn&#8217;t affect me one bit. I defend Pashtuns though not on account of becoming one but because I have seen the very same biases to them you talk about in Karachi.

We weren&#8217;t here to become reactionaries or just build an empire for ourselves. Anyone can say they did this so we don&#8217;t like them or will defend our community... but few can reach out to them and hold their hand and say we are with you and we are all Pakistanis regardless

No one in this country can jump into their shoes and look at the situation from their eyes. Though I have never seen what you said I have indeed seen biases against Pashtuns in Karachi, things like &#8220;tu Pathan ka beta, pathan ban key rah. Hamaray tarah mat banay ki koshish kar&#8221; to a flower seller. And things like &#8220;Pathan hamari juti ki neechey hai&#8221;... so this is what happens in our own city Karachi. But when lets say the same thing is happening to us in another area of Pakistan we are getting pissed? 
I think the point we stopped being a nation was when we stopped feeling for each other... and if you see my posts thats what I am trying to do in my defence of other ethnic groups. 

Oscar if you think about it its all very silly the things we are taking offense at. What is Muhajir anyway? Why are we so keen to maintain this term. It means pilgrim, man.  Which one of us looks like a pilgrim, we are settled in the top cities, we have a gdp per capita higher than anyone else and all we can look at is this non-existent belief of oppression. I don&#8217;t even take the term seriously-muhajir cannot even be an ethnic group by any definition for us to take it seriously-our real culture is lucknowi (in my case) and i can tell you its far different from that of a malabhari muslim. So how this collective muhajir label puts us in the same classification? Now surprise, surpise. Then what makes it impossible for a punjabi or someone else to come under that label. Its us who aren&#8217;t disengaged from ethnicity and if we start with ourselves we can make a very solid statement of ethnic unity. But someone has to get out of it... challenge these identities and say enough. 

My family says some horrible things about Sindhis and Pashtuns... they don&#8217;t think about how another person would feel before claiming &#8220;Muhajir key saath kitna ghalat ho raha hai.&#8221; Anyone can focus on all this. But it is another thing to win people with respect. I will give you an example, something I typed in the other thread I have been very active in recently:


> I will give you a simple example. I adopted Pashtun culture and ways and know rudimentary Pashto-but when speaking people can tell i am not Pashto speaker by birth. When I spoke Pashto to driver in Karachi some months ago... he looked at me totally surprised. He was shocked and goes like "talo pashto razi!!!" (You know Pashto!)... he knew how our families were and had been hearing abuse like "tum pathano key paas aqal toh hoti nahi hai" and things like "jahil insaan, gari roko, ismein car-bomb nahi hai jo tum jakay takra do kahim say"... this is basically how our khandaan behaves around non-muhajirs. When I spoke Pashto which was clearly weak I won his respect.
> 
> Aap toh bulkul hamaray tarah pathan hai, aap ney hamara dil jeet liya.... He said smiling. Now he always treats me with total reverence. If we show respect and goodwill to people they will respect us. Simple as that. In moments I became a Pashtun despite my comparitively pathetic Pashto but we don't have this kind of mentality. *One day he comes by and gifts about 20-30 books on Pashto language and literature which must have cost him at least 1000-2000 rupees when he is earning about 12,000 monthly. I wanted to give him money but he refused. He promised me support for the Pakistan Nationalist party which unfortunately isn't in existence yet but is a personal dream.* This is how you unite people. By being a racist you divide and create ill-will between communities and even on this thread you see it... one abusive comment to an ethnic group and you set off a war. Think how easy it is to do the same.
> 
> By challenging a number of people who have that kind of divisive mindset I sought to create an impression while conducting research for my paper. It was the best way to debate and my knowledge in this regard has expanded.
> *
> People misunderstand these beautiful people, these Pashtuns for years now and I have no clue how to stop it. All the bad jokes are on them... we associate them with negative influences like Naswar. Pretty sad and this is what I personally experienced, a Pashtun spending his 1/5th and 1/6th of his salary for me. *
> *
> Never has anyone ever physically told me that I have no right to call myself Pashtun excluding the e-afghans and their backers who only seem to exist in the world of the internet. My point here is did we ever even try to build bridges with the local communities or did we always feel different and wanted to maintain a separate identity?*
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...cussion-muhajir-identity-9.html#ixzz2Hn7BPPVR



We can very easily change things and beat this. Ethnicity is not a big thing. I don&#8217;t remember those moving to india from pak calling themselves yatrees or muhajirs like our families. We are insecure. I saw this which is why I adopted Pashtun identity, not really because of the weak unrpoven links to them but thought this identity is quite an imposed one by ourselves and helping in dividing us from our people-we dont want to give it up. My folks actually look down at Pashtuns. We have to escape the victim mentality and accept that we played a role in exacerbating tensions. We do it and I am telling you others may follow. We continue acting like reactionaries. Nothing changes.

The key to eliminating the ethnic issue is right in our hands.


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## Mav3rick

somebozo said:


> Lets me put it this way...you are one of those Karahchite Bhagoras from 1990's anti-MQM operation now struggling in Austrlia and taking to keyboard for your frustration venting!



Actually, let me put it the correct way, I am one of the Karachiites that calls a spade, a spade, and one who lived in Karachi throughout the operation, saw the dirty deeds of the military operation on false pretext of Jinnahpur and then saw Musharraf taking over. I am the one who saw everything before leaving for Australia for higher education and returning to Pakistan to serve the country where I serve the federal Government today.


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## Mav3rick

Chak Bamu said:


> If this identity (as you call it) was not coined by Urdu speaking Mohajirs, then why are you hell-bent on using it? You know how offensive this is to others who came here, having fought, walked, bled, sickened on the way.
> 
> I would like to know if any of your ancestors had to fight off Sikhs? Mine did and kicked some serious a**.
> 
> I would like to know how and when your ancestors got to Pakistan. Mine had to move to camps where wells were poisoned. They had to walk with Sikhs stalking all around and bloody Dogra soldiers doing nothing. All the people in the caravan attempted mass suicide but were discovered by an English officer who sent Baloch Regiment jawans to escort them. My father, my grandfather, my uncles walked on foot to Toba Tek Singh from Jallandhar. Yes the same Toba, which voted over-whelmingly for Fatima Jinnah. This is my story. What is yours?
> 
> My Grand father left his home to mobilize support for Muslim League so that our extended Biradari would vote en-masse for Muslim League and Pakistan - yes he was a worker in Pakistan Movement. What did yours do?
> 
> One of my elderly relatives has a CERTIFICATE hanging in his bedroom acknowledging his contribution to the Pakistan movement, given by GOP. Let us hear from you if you have anything like this in your family. Anything?
> 
> How dare you belittle the sacrifice and achievement of others? See this is EXACTLY the type of arrogance for which MQM's so-called Mohajirs are known all around the country. You think you are the only ones who sacrificed? You think you are the only ones worthy of this country? You think that you are so high up the ladder of morality that all should bow to your greatness? THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I HATE ALTAF HUSSAIN. He has taken seedlings of misconception and nurtured them into jungles of prejudice. If Sindhis had not been part of our struggle, why in Allah's name would they be in Pakistan and be right there to welcome the refugees, whose descendants now look down upon them?
> 
> Why is there this talk of carving up Sindh with its precious resources taken over by the people, some of whom look down upon Sindhis? The same Sindhis who welcomed your ancestors in the name of Islam. Is there justice in this Pakistan of ours? Dare anyone remind you that Karachi belongs to the whole of Pakistan courtesy of Sindhis to begin with? You think your ancestors gave up more. Ask Sindhis what they got from Pakistan...



I am sorry that I misunderstood you. My family faced the same dilemma at the time of migration. We too have lost family members in the cause. Not just family, my family never even claimed properties when they got here despite the fact that my mothers father had 4 cars when people could not afford a bicycle and my fathers father was a senior collector under the British Government. I can understand the sacrifices my friend but today nobody remembers the sacrifices made by our families. Today, whether you call yourself a mohajir or not, you are one to the rest of the country. I am speaking from my own personal experience. You most likely have not had to face the true side of our Sindhi & Punjabi brothers. I, being a part of the federal government, am all too aware of the reality. The sick reality, I must add.

The Sindh that you speak of may not have gotten anything from the partition except freedom. However, freedom was the most important, most prized and sought after treasure at that time least you or they forget. And Pakistan belongs to all of us alike, the talk of carving up Sindh is for the better of the country and for everyone as half of Sindh (interior) wants to live under a different system then the other half. Must I further say that the illiterates want to live under the outdated colonial era Commissioner system while the rest of us, the educated ones, want to live in true democracy under LG system.





Chak Bamu said:


> Reasoning skills go only so far with pre-conceived opinions obstructing the way. It is just convenient to argue against common-sense that AH has any right to tell legislators how to vote and what to legislate. Did you see all the senior MQM leaders with pencils and pads, because this clown and fool was giving them a lecture of treachery? What do you suppose was going on in their minds as they were hearing his .... well I like to compare his utterings to the desperate baying of a wayward Buffalo calf looking for its mother. Really, no joke - That is how he sounds. Honest.
> 
> The MQM legislators have to be citizens of Pakistan and Pakistan only. Yet the big Don who tells them how to vote and what to legislate is sitting in England with a British passport and an oath to obey & honor the queen and to accept the superiority of Church of England in spiritual matters. This same Don gets to dictate what goes on in the commercial capital of Pakistan. And people like you somehow feel compelled to obey him and to defend his nonsense.



I know how AH sounds and I agree that today he is the biggest drawback that MQM has to face because AH has changed from the man he was during the 80's and 90's. Sometimes I do not understand what's happened to him, to the actual movement that was very much needed when MQM was formed. And it is not possible to defend him today. But his speech was turned from a defensive speech on part of AH to justify his position to accusations on Quaid-e-Azam which was incorrect, hence my participation in the thread.

And if you are willing to look past his style, his clothing, his acts etc. and focus purely on his words that appear in the following dailies, you will realize that he does actually make a lot of sense most of the time.





Chak Bamu said:


> He did not change. He just showed his true colors. He is a coward, just as he always was. He is a manipulator, just as he always was. He is just as much a liar as he always has been. Nothing different, just clearer.



We do not agree with your point of view on this.


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## Mav3rick

Chak Bamu said:


> You consider partition to be a joke, good for you. Keep this poison to yourself and your community. 1971 debacle was not a simple affair. And let me remind you that the beginnings of it had something to do with demeanor and dealings of ICS officers from West Pakistan. Most of these ICS officers were from Urdu-speaking regions of UP/CP and they felt so superior to their fellow Pakistanis that our Bengali brothers found no difference between them and the departed British. Bengalis hated them and called them Punjabis. To Bengalis, all those who came from West Pakistan were 'Punjabis'.
> 
> Ghulam Muhammad, the despicable Governor General of Pakistan was just such an ICS officer who played havoc with governments while he ruled Pakistan from Karachi. Guess his background?
> 
> Iskandar Mirza, the breaker of Pakistan's 1956 constitution (made with untiring efforts of Chaudhry Muhammad Ali - a distant relative of mine) was an ethnic Bengali with Urdu-speaking background. He paved the way for Ayub Khan's Martial Law.
> 
> So you see the so-called Muhajir community has its fair share in our collective misfortunes. *I am not denying the sacrifice and contribution of our Urdu-speaking brothers.* I am just pointing out inconvenient facts for the benefit of those who need to take a look in the mirror so that they can see how they look to others.
> 
> Do not go all high and holy and pontiff-like. 1971 happened because people in West Pakistan were not equal to the vision of Pakistan. Had they considered Bengalis brothers in Islam and brothers in nation, we would not have seen what we saw leading up to 1971. Bengalis did not have significantly more problems with Ayub Khan than us in West Pakistan. It was discrimination they felt. One can feel this same bloody discrimination when one hears Altaf moan and groan about how HIS people have been wronged. Only so-called Mohajirs feel self-righteous about his bayings. Do they pause to think how it all sounds to the rest of us Pakistanis? What gives them the right to look down upon Pashtuns, just as they had looked down upon Bengalis. What gives them the right to look down upon Punjabis, just as they had looked down upon Bengalis. What gives them the right to look down upon Sindhis, just as they had looked down upon Bengalis. And they live in Sindh for crying out loud. Oh the hypocrisy...



Again, you have very conveniently put all the blame on Urdu speaking officials. The issues were many and out of scope of this discussion. However the more important things is that the issues would not have arisen had this side been a larger chunk instead of 2 Pakistans on either side of a much larger and hateful India!

If you read up on the partition and ploy of British including that of Mount Batten, you will find that the proposal that was presented to Quaid-e-Azam was expected to be rejected by Quaid-e-Azam and how the British were surprised when Quaid accepted the proposal of Pakistan on either side of India. Quaid had his reasons, the British had theirs. However, if you read up on Mount Batten's diaries (recently declassified I believe) you will know how the game was played and how Quaid was setup with partition in such a way. Not only that, the unresolved issue of Kashmir which haunts us to this day.....an issue over which we have fought 3 wars with India and lost so much (Despite kicking India's behind).

The partition was a big blunder indeed, and today we would still be united had the Partition produced 1 Pakistan and 1 India. Even today can anyone dream of breaking away Baluchistan from us? Had Baluchistan been physically away from Pakistan it would have been broken away a long long time ago, hopefully you will understand my point.


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## Mav3rick

Chak Bamu said:


> I never said that only my ancestors sacrificed. I just called his bluff when he trashed people of other ethnicities. I would rather hear what he has to say about this.
> 
> I would like to hear how you can support your contention that Punjabis engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing. I would also like to know how Sindhis usurped your rights (yes I know about the quota thing).
> 
> I am not a racist. People who think that they are better than others and look down upon others are racists. I have no such problems. I just called somebody's bluff. You have a problem with that? Why do you not have a problem with someone telling that Punjabis did not make sacrifices? Why do you not have a problem with someone who is perpetuating the stereotype of so-called Muhajirs? Why? Why can I not defend people of my ethnic origin when some one dumps his prejudice upon us?
> 
> Buffalo soldier my a##.
> 
> The only place in whole of Pakistan I was made conscious of being a Punjabi was in Karachi. My only mistake was being part of Punjab's team in National games. You have the guts to call me xenophobic? What are you yourself?



You are aware of the quota system and how that has destroyed the country by sacrificing true potential for equality despite inequality of efforts? For example, education standards in interior Sindh and the reason for Sindhis to join the Government is quite clear. Sindhis take on the Government jobs for power, extortion, bribes and to claim salaries while not attending the office. The Mohajir community on the other hand would rather work in the private sector away from bribery to earn an honest livelihood. I am facing bureaucratic hurdles that you wouldn't imagine because what I do can put a mark on many big fish.


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## Isaths

This is why I "prefer" Imran Khan at least he doesn't divide us(Pakistanies) into punjabi, urdu speaking, sindhi, pashtun, baloch and etc. He used the term Pakistanies as a whole. while almost all other parties loved to use their ethnic cards according to their needs without realising the destruction and hate they spread among Pakistanies by their this cheap political stunt. 

M I wrong didn't PPP has and deliberately used sindh card, MQM mohajir card, ANP pashtun card, and etc. Here credit goed to PMLN who never used the term "Punjabi" but, whenever they came into power their focus has always been punjab not the whole Pakistan which has been their draw back. I dont think they can vastly improve their image of "punjabi Leaders" as zardari's use of Takht-e-Punjab has made their position very controversial.
I don't know if they are more smart or we are fool enough to cut each others throats without taking a single minute to think.

May Allah bless OUR Pakistan


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## Mav3rick

haviZsultan said:


> Altaf Hussain calls creation of Pakistan the Biggest Mistake - YouTube



You claimed that AH burned the national flag, please post proof of that or consider yourself a LIAR!





haviZsultan said:


> Listen the hell up... we wouldn't have lost Pakistan if our families and our stupid urdu-speaking community had had the brains to rise up against Bhutto and Yahya Khan... instead we were cheering them on. You are part of the reason East Pakistan fell and you are yapping about a loss to this country as if somehow it was someone elses responsibility. You should be ashamed.



You wanted a minority to rise up to the sea of people that Bhutto had gathered before '71? What would have that achieved? Were our families not first hand victims/witnesses for the support of our community to Fatima Jinnah? Did we need more of the abuse that was met out to our community as a punishment for supporting the sister of Quaid-e-Azam......who was betrayed by the country then and the same people have the guts to claim that they stand for Quaid-e-Azam when their families treacherously sold out Quaid's sister?? Why fall for the same lies again and again??





haviZsultan said:


> Listen up, I refuse to call myself a muhajir because of traitors to my motherland like you who have no belief whatsoever in Pakistan but I will not die a traitor to my forefathers and my family members killed by the Indian mobs-our grandfather who came to Pakistan with only the dua for Pakistan to succeed and our country to be the greatest one in the history of Pakistan. You MQM terrorists are traitors to this country and to my forefathers blood. Last time Karachite said something like this it was truly a test of my nerves and this time it is the same.



I do not understand why you consider me a traitor, all I can say is that in 2001/02 when India had amassed almost a million troops at our border and war drums were beating I returned from abroad to ensure that I was present in the country before air travel was restricted in the even of a war, to ensure that I could participate and play my role in the defense of my country.

But matters that we speak of today are different, I speak for unison and that can only happen when every community is given their freedom and their rights. Be it Karachiites, Baloch, Hazaras or Siraikis. If that means breaking up the provinces in to smaller provinces then so be it. All that I would say is that provinces should not be divided on ethnic lines or on sectarian lines but administrative lines and that we should eliminate the ethnic/sectarian divide.





haviZsultan said:


> Think before you jump off a mountain top for terror-God Altaf Hussain. Lol. You want to know how 71 happened. That is how my friend. That is how but this time we will not let you do it.



So AH and MQM were behind '71 tragedy?





haviZsultan said:


> This is laughable. An MQM terrorist from my pathetic community which spends time abusing Pashtuns, Sindhis and Punjbabis is telling me who a bigot is. I will die for my Punjabi Sindhi and Baloch brothers. If me fighting their killers makes me a bigot then I am very proud of it. But what we teach our kids... thats what they are learning. No surprise here. @Oscar is right here. We have no unity... but we are the ones who have to build it.



I do not bash any ethnicity. If I say something which is a fact then it cannot be considered abuse. I think you are either most likely confusing me with someone else or that you have misunderstood something I posted.





haviZsultan said:


> If you had the ability to look at things objectively and critically then you would have found out that around 87% of all murders and target killings were of people not affiliated with the MQM so that is the most likely party to have murdered them.



I do not know where you came up with the figure of 87% but lets analyse your assumptions:

1) 87% that have been murdered in Karachi were not affiliated with MQM.
2) 87% that have been murdered in Karachi were not supporters of MQM
3) 87% that have been murdered in Karachi were not from the urdu speaking community.
4) 87% that have been murdered in Karachi must have been murdered by MQM because of points 1,2 & 3 above.

Now I am thinking if you had the ability to not copy and paste the words about thinking objectively and critically then you would not have posted what you did. I mean you just want to blame MQM even though you have no tangible proof or even suspicions that would arise from benefits of such terrorism that MQM would gain except a bad name and abuse in general which I do not believe MQM want any more.





haviZsultan said:


> Regardless of who coined it the muhajir identity was and is adopted by this community. I have replied to the same rubbish to darkinsky. Fatima Jinnah was a national issue not remotely a muhajir issue. Stop turning it into one to claim you have been oppressed because as a Karachite I know exactly which community has been suffering abuse.



Can you explain why the so called supporters of Quaid-e-Azam denounced Fatima Jinnah, the mother of the nation, in favor of Ayub Khan?? Can you furthermore explain why the country stood silent spectator when Ayub's son wreaked havoc of his revenge on Karachiites for support of Fatima Jinnah?





haviZsultan said:


> Rubbish. Khan of Kalat voted for the formation of Pakistan and even Quaid noted it-without it Balochistan would never have come over to us. Did you forget about the Hur movement, Shaikh Abdul Majeed Sindhi, Abdul Rab Nishtar, Mir Ahmed Yar Baloch? Of course you probably didnt even know about half of them being the typical racist you are. How dare you say that other Pakistanis did nothing for Pakistan? That is an insult to all other ethnic groups in my country who are one of us. We are all leaves of one tree-if one throws vile acid on one he does so on all of us.



Go and read the history of Khan of Kalat and that of Badshah Khan and many others. You have picked names where as I have picked leaders for this debate. Hur Movement? Hurs did not fight for the overall freedom struggle, they fought for their own personal selves, for their leader, for their own tribes! You must not compare struggles motivated by self interests to the overall and larger movement aimed at the creation of a country for the whole Muslim nation.





haviZsultan said:


> Also do you MQM terrorists ever use a novelty called a brain? Do you know who Chak Bamu is? He is from Indian Punjab. He moved to Pakistan. Now when someone moves to Pakistan who does he become? A muhajir as that term is supposed to apply to all muhajirs. So basically when you insult a Punjabi and his history you are insulting muhajirs themselves but such a simple fact may not lodge itself in the scum infested brain of someone as highly educated as you unlike the rest of the people who are supposed to accept you as their Gods.



Since I did not know that Chak Bamu is from Indian Punjab I must not be using my brain? And also because I am posting facts, I must be an MQM members and by extension a terrorist too. And now that I know Chak Bamu is actually a Punjabi from Indian side, I know that he was accepted in the Punjabi community and so were Punjabi Kashmiri. Nobody cared about the urdu speaking community and the initial welcome fast diminished as realization dawned that the highly elite in education would challenge the Sindhi claim to Government jobs and so on.





haviZsultan said:


> I am seriously going to lose patience some day with people who claim partition was a mistake. It was absolutely true what Syed Jamaluddin said. He was indeed with Altaf and Altaf did want a partition of Sindh or the creation of Jinnahpur.



Whatever dude....


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## MastanKhan

darkinsky said:


> so any guy born in 1980 in pakistan with pakistani passport was automatically dual british national
> 
> so practically my father who is a pakistan is automatically dual national
> 
> this doesnt make an ounce of sense that a guy born before 1980 in pakistan was automatically considered british national
> 
> in this way altaf also didnt take any oath because he was born before 1983



Plz read again---pakistan was not a colony in 1980---.

Secondly---for all practical purposes---Jinnah was an EXPAT----if it was not for that expat---muslims---had not a single person capable to lead them---.

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## Saint Gujjar

the only thing that really matters is where your loyalty is,doesnt matter what clothes you wear or what apperance you have brought out to show the world,if your intention is true people will respect you,and if your intention is false,people will know it even if you try to hide it in a million words and apperances,it is said that the perfume will escape no matter where it is and no matter how hard you try to conceal.people know who is sincere and who never will be.

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## curioususer

Thread kahna se kahna agaya?


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## Chak Bamu

@Mav3rick, Points noted and differences accepted. I lost my cool back there - sorry for that. I have a great deal of respect for my Urdu-speaking brothers as long as they do not actively abuse my ethnicity. Heck, they can eve do that - but please do not raise stupid controversies just to explain what AH did or said.

Re. the quota thing. I agree its elimination is long overdue. Perhaps a merit-based percentage should be put in place and expanded each year until quota becomes something akin to seats reserved for minorities and such. Complete elimination would not go down well. I hope you would agree that on a merit basis our Urdu-speaking brothers would have heavily predominated in government services. Punjabis by the virtue of having old and well-established educational institutions would have perhaps held their own, but Pashtuns, Sindhi, & Balochi brothers would have been badly excluded. Such a situation could have generated enough centrifugal force to threaten out country. If our Urdu-speaking brothers have felt cheated and thus MQM has gained acceptance based on that factor (among others), then imagine three other MQM like parties vying for power based on their respective parochial constituencies. What might have happened to the country then? It is quite clear that a strictly merit-based policy would not have been the best option.

PPP has the unique distinction of being the most widespread party in Pakistan who can win seats throughout the country. PML has been badly fragmented, most recently by efforts from Musharraf. PML(N) has widespread support in Norther Punjab, Hazara, and some other areas. The last elections went badly for them, since they could not make contacts, convince others, and build alliances. You know how it was for them. On that account, they may seem restricted to Punjab only, but that is only how things came out with Musharraf being in power.

Looking at just these two parties (not even talking about PTI, ANP, and others), tells you that they have a wider scope and agenda. As opposed to them, MQM has tried to make forays into other parts of Pakistan, but then has remained committed to its power base. Their agenda, tactics, and diction remains alien to the vast majority of Pakistanis. There is deep mistrust and suspicion. With the rise of PTI, the segment of population to whom the MQM might have appealed is in no mood to give MQM another chance. 

The electoral failure of Fatima Jinnah was engineered by the sitting dictator. The descendants of Fatima Jinnah's supporters were found supporting another dictator who was actually much worse than Ayub Khan. If Musharraf's cultural background was a factor then why blame Pashtuns for supporting Ayub Khan? How come what Gohar Ayub did was bad and all that MQM has done is OK (12th May)? MQM practically lived in Musharraf's pocket, and he did just about everything MQM asked. Now when we find his doings being undone, MQM is huffing and puffing. You have found a reason to divide Sindh just because of that.

Have we pacified Balochistan yet? Have we dealt with our energy crisis? Have we dealt with Taliban? Do we have a solution to the rampant corruption? Do we have the energy and time to talk about dividing Sindh and compound our problems, on top of everything else?

Let us agree to disagree. And end it here. But do note that nobody (including me) has a monopoly on the truth in Pakistan of ours.

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## somebozo

Mav3rick said:


> Actually, let me put it the correct way, I am one of the Karachiites that calls a spade, a spade, and one who lived in Karachi throughout the operation, saw the dirty deeds of the military operation on false pretext of Jinnahpur and then saw Musharraf taking over. I am the one who saw everything before leaving for Australia for higher education and returning to Pakistan to serve the country where I serve the federal Government today.



I was also in Karachi during 91-92 and 95-96.
Operation was every bit good thing as it bought peace back to the city put an end to bori band lash and for a long time crime & bhatta was really down in the city.

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## haviZsultan

Let us say there is a person who is sure he can bash through a castle wall by punching and kicking. He doesnt realize that he simply is incapable of doing so. 

Unfortunately the person thinks he can bash through those stone defences. The only time he realizes he cannot is when sinister hands come out of the wall and slaps this person on the face... after which he runs off. I can draw striking parallels between this person and you. 

The argument you are having with me now, W.11 and darkinsky and many others have had before and you can ask them how much luck they had. The only terrorist I spared who said partition was a mistake was Karachiite and that on account of things he told me about his own family history. There is nothing you can say to me... every other person understands that I do not leave someone who insults another ethnic group or community or advocates concepts such as loyalty to India, Afghanistan or any other state despite being a Pakistani citizen. 

The fact I am a born urdu speaker, raised for 20+ years being told I am one and Karachite myself who can counter your rubbish hatred-filled Anti-Pakistani narrative in mere seconds destroys any claims of bias or discrimination you wish to make. Even the Pashtuns, the identity I am adopting have a greater right to ignore my comments as those of a wannabe with my weak unproven links but you simply cannot do that. There is no defense, no escape from a person with every statistic, every piece of information in his hands. 

Maverick when someone attacks my country and its right to exist, especially a traitor who eats and drinks from this aziz mitti I forget everything. 



Mav3rick said:


> You claimed that AH burned the national flag, please post proof of that or consider yourself a LIAR!









The problem is not that I don't have proof. There are 4 testimonies of various people to prove this, I can name the 4 people (I am an independent journalist) which I have learned from a SSP in Karachi but it is beyond a terrorist mind that calls my family's sacrifice to form this country a mistake to accept. You do not want to accept... this is your problem. You truly are Indian lovers, even @Karachiite, you guys can't comprehend the atrocities these MQM mass murderers have committed. What is stopping you from crossing the border? You are disgrace to every true migrant family anyway. I am not loyal to "Muhajirs" true or consider myself one but I am loyal to my family that passed through great ordeals, left property behind, left all wealth, brothers, parents and sisters behind just because they believed in Pakistan and their belief *was unshakable*, something which is impossible to relay to an Indian backed traitor like yourself. 

Perhaps you forgot how we were killed by Indian mobs on the way and we had only and only a solid belief in Pakistan and its ideology when we crossed the borders not to add the Indians killed people we knew. In my case it is not just my grandfathers who know people who were murdered. In my case I personally know people who died.



> You wanted a minority to rise up to the sea of people that Bhutto had gathered before '71? What would have that achieved? Were our families not first hand victims/witnesses for the support of our community to Fatima Jinnah? Did we need more of the abuse that was met out to our community as a punishment for supporting the sister of Quaid-e-Azam......who was betrayed by the country then and the same people have the guts to claim that they stand for Quaid-e-Azam when their families treacherously sold out Quaid's sister?? Why fall for the same lies again and again??



The victim mindset comes like a storm making debate impossible... "what could we poor oppressed people have done." 

We could have risen up and became an example for the rest of the country just like today we could have fought the ethnic tensions, challenged ethnic identity and defended other ethnic groups or simply merged with them. But people like you were the reason I decided to have no link with you guys or with muhajir identity. A reply to this comes later-it is about how Urdu-speakers by refusing to recognize indigenous languages played a part in breaking Bengal.



> I do not understand why you consider me a traitor, all I can say is that in 2001/02 when India had amassed almost a million troops at our border and war drums were beating I returned from abroad to ensure that I was present in the country before air travel was restricted in the even of a war, to ensure that I could participate and play my role in the defense of my country.



Save it. If you do not believe in Pakistan then how are you serving it, MQM target killer? There was a PPP thug in our family very much like you and he used to say the same things about the mistake of Pakistan's formation and other such rubbish. I used to get out of the room because if I stayed with him I might have slapped him despite his age. 



> But matters that we speak of today are different, I speak for unison and that can only happen when every community is given their freedom and their rights. Be it Karachiites, Baloch, Hazaras or Siraikis. If that means breaking up the provinces in to smaller provinces then so be it. All that I would say is that provinces should not be divided on ethnic lines or on sectarian lines but administrative lines and that we should eliminate the ethnic/sectarian divide.



Provinces is a different matter. Treason to Quaid E Azam and nation another thing. Do not try to divert the discussion. You talk about rights but I know how that goes. My uncle said "we urdu-speakers have no rights here" then went on to insult Balochs, Pashtuns. His exacts words "Its because of these pagals coming to our city." I have been hearing it almost daily in Karachi. Since you are part of the same thing don't you dare talk to me about rights. You are just a bigot, an ethno-chauvinist and being from your ethnic group unfortunately I know in our drawing room conversations insults are all that fly for the other ethnic groups. When we say Pathan meri juti key neechey in front of him do we think how that guy would feel? It is an honor to adopt Pashtun identity, that of a person who is really mazloom in karachi city than be among racists like you... thank you. 

Figures for you about the Muhajir community. Rupees 13,000+ gdp per capita than the Punjabis who are at second, almost 30,000 more than the Balochs according to H&H research group. An HDI rating higher than any other community. Access to the best schools, colleges, hospitals, all a gift of being in the main cities of Pakistan-have you ever bothered to go to interior Sindh to see the utter penury the people live in? Now we are going to say we are oppressed? Is this a joke?

An old post:


> Have you seen the list of directors for radio Pakistan *About 30% of the directors are Muhajir (compare to Urdu-speaking population of 8% of total Pakistani-highly inflated that also because question asked in surveys is language NOT ethnicity)* There were 2-3 Sindhis and Pashtuns. And guess what. *NO BALOCH.* So the Punjabi didnt steal from the Baloch only-we did too.



Still, somehow to develop a political identity we need Altaf...  
Good luck to that and killing every one else. I won't support it out of my duty to Pakistan. 



> So AH and MQM were behind '71 tragedy?



Their backers were with the same mindset they have today. Proof that Bangladesh happened because of Urdu speakers too and our wish to maintain urdu. 2) (Article heading 2) URDU endangered? (in 1952)

A strong reaction is emerging in the West wing to the East Bengal provincial assembly's decision to make Bengali second national language (along with Urdu), dubbing such language demands from Bengal as treason against Pakistan and a threat to the existence of Urdu.

A section of journalists has also demanded removal of two non-native Urdu speakers from the editorship of English newspapers including Dawn. (Now who is most interested in maintaining Urdu as a language-us Urdu speakers who had the same mentality we have today, MashaAllah. You threw away Bengal out of urdu-speaking chauvinism and now you dare to blame it on other communities! Not only that use it as a tool to claim partition a blunder. Shame on you. Altaf should be hanged for that speech as it is done in Turkey. Maybe if we had let the two urdu speakers be removed and not made everything an issue we could have saved 71 from occurring.)

I am by birth an urdu speaker by choice a Pashtun, every breathe of mine screams Pakistani Nationalism and I will die sword in hand but will never let another Bangladesh happen again and the potential for this to happen comes from Altaf Hussain. Pakistan first second and last. 




> I do not bash any ethnicity. If I say something which is a fact then it cannot be considered abuse. I think you are either most likely confusing me with someone else or that you have misunderstood something I posted.



Excuse me. Didn't you just attack my brother @Chak Bamu, Punjabis and Sindhis and belittle Chak Bamu's ancestors role in the formation of Pakistan? You MQM terrorists cannot take part in a single debate without bashing another ethnicity or looking at them down your nose and now you are saying you don't bash ethnicity? Let me pull out some of your posts and they will reveal the truth real quickly... I suggest you learn from @darkinsky... he stopped racist posts too for which I am truly thankful. I would also request him to reassess his loyalty to MQM. But of course I cannot force him.

And in front of me do not dare to insult the heritage and history of @Chak Bamu. If you had the ability to understand it you would know he idolizes Urdu despite his mother-tongue being Punjabi and once had high hopes with the MQM. Punjabis are the reason Urdu which is our language spread to every nook and corner in Pakistan. Instead of feeling for others and respecting them we criticize them and their history.



> I do not know where you came up with the figure of 87% but lets analyse your assumptions:



My mind gets a little befuddled when someone says something about partition being a mistake. It is a test of my patience. You didn't ask which period this information was for but MQM supporters aren't known to be smart. They vote for Altaf because he is a Muhajir and they are the same, they are from Karachi and Altaf is too which doesn't really show a cultured or educated upbringing, sorry to say which serves as a primary example that a university graduate can be as illiterate as a villager. Its for 2012 by CPLC and Sindh police. You may not easily find it-a journalist can by making calls here and there. 



> 1) 87% that have been murdered in Karachi were not affiliated with MQM.
> 2) 87% that have been murdered in Karachi were not supporters of MQM
> 3) 87% that have been murdered in Karachi were not from the urdu speaking community.
> 4) 87% that have been murdered in Karachi must have been murdered by MQM because of points 1,2 & 3 above.



I was checking the solved cases too. You can't escape a journalist, even an unsuccessful one like me. I have *EVERY* fact here. 

Here I will bring 7 cases you can check in the database of Sindh police (I wrote them down) which were solved and found out to be by MQM target killers. I will only mention first names as I do not trust you as you could be a target killer. *Shahzeb*, murdered at restaurant-MQM worker arrested. *Sohaib*-murdered by MQM target killer. *Abbas* murdered, his brother injured in targeted attack-the name of killer Shafi Alias Bilal who was in contact with Ajmal Pahari but he may escape as the prosecution is very weak (haven't checked on progress of case), next *Salim *whose target killer was killed in an encounter-was from orangi, next *Adil *his target killer was just a paid person-he wasn't affiliated with MQM but confessed in court of having been paid, next *Mohammed *and finally *Qasim *both killed in a shooting at some roundabout. 

Also I checked out the case of Syed Salahuddin, editor of Takbeer who was killed by target killer Ajmal Pahari who is responsible for 100+ murders. He is out of jail yet again just like Malik Ishaq. This is who my beysharam people of Karachi vote for. Now before denying this... go to the police and find out about these cases. 

Do note when the constable helping me make sense of the information showed be the file and I noticed for the first 7 solved cases it had been MQM workers or MQM paid target killers that had been used I stopped looking though yes I will admit in some older pages there were cases against PPP workers as well. 

A high profile case would be Wali Babar and murder of the Chief architects of operation clean-up. Wonder why anyone else would kill him? Here is what happened to those who participated in 92 operation against MQM terror gang.:
*
What happened to the 92 cops who disappeared after 1992? &#8211; The Express Tribune*



> Now I am thinking if you had the ability to not copy and paste the words about thinking objectively and critically then you would not have posted what you did. I mean you just want to blame MQM even though you have no tangible proof or even suspicions that would arise from benefits of such terrorism that MQM would gain except a bad name and abuse in general which I do not believe MQM want any more.



You do not need to copy my exact words. Didn't I say objectively and critically first... but proves that basically Altaf says kill all other ethnic groups and you jump on his lap like a little kid and let him ruffle your hair while you shout the same thing.

Do note, I cannot believe anyone can be so objective in Pakistan to condemn his own ethnic group of birth so severely and its behavior in Pakistan for the purpose of ethnic unity and Nationalism which you lack. You want me to accept a terrorist organization as a constant presence in this city. It will never happen. *That above is a load of proof.* Another proof. MQM hosted in 1984 as the Muhajir Quami movement. Figures from 1985-1990, no surpise here! 3000 deaths in Karachi. That is what the MQM is. 



> Can you explain why the so called supporters of Quaid-e-Azam denounced Fatima Jinnah, the mother of the nation, in favor of Ayub Khan?? Can you furthermore explain why the country stood silent spectator when Ayub's son wreaked havoc of his revenge on Karachiites for support of Fatima Jinnah?



Who denounced Fatima Jinnah? Lol. It was a vote in the assemblies, the parliament and village council members which was full of crooked politicians- he was a military strongman with all power in his hands for Godsake and he could bribe anyone. You are trying to tell me Pakistani people are responsible for this? Because thats what you mean when you say this act was purposely done against muhajirs. 

Country never stood silent but explaining this is very hard to someone taught selective history. You are being fed MQM version of history which destroys your ability to question and challenge things. According to the MQM narrative, you, despite being a very Anti-Pakistani individual supporting Altaf's speech will always somehow have been oppressed. 

1) (Article heading one) November 7, 1968. A college student was shot dead by police as fire opened on a procession of students demonstrating on Peshawar Rd, Rawalpindi, against the new education policy summarised in University Ordinance. (Starts a student insurgency)

Following the student insurgency in November, factory workers have joined in the protest against the policies of the present regime (Ayub Khan's), which has withdrawn the right to strike and clamped down on trade unions. 



> Go and read the history of Khan of Kalat and that of Badshah Khan and many others. You have picked names where as I have picked leaders for this debate. Hur Movement? Hurs did not fight for the overall freedom struggle, they fought for their own personal selves, for their leader, for their own tribes! You must not compare struggles motivated by self interests to the overall and larger movement aimed at the creation of a country for the whole Muslim nation.



Lol. what a beautiful logic. One case is going to mean all Pashtuns were traitors and only migrants were the ones who worked for Pakistan. Meer Ahmed Yar Baloch is a Khan of Kalat and he stated that in a dream it came to him that Balochistan should be merged with Pakistan. 

The only person motivated by self-interest here is you. Didn't you say you were in government. How many people massacred to get there and preach anti-Pakistanism in the parliament?



> Since I did not know that Chak Bamu is from Indian Punjab I must not be using my brain? And also because I am posting facts, I must be an MQM members and by extension a terrorist too. And now that I know Chak Bamu is actually a Punjabi from Indian side, I know that he was accepted in the Punjabi community and so were Punjabi Kashmiri. Nobody cared about the urdu speaking community and the initial welcome fast diminished as realization dawned that the highly elite in education would challenge the Sindhi claim to Government jobs and so on.



Rubbish. Did you try to integrate? Did you ever think of calling yourself Sindhi. I call myself a Pashtun and not one person has ever said I have no right to call myself one as I am by birth the son of a low migrant (discounting those backed by Afghanistan on internet forums). Do not sell this rubbish. This is a member Rafay saying he will accept anyone as a Sindhi who wants to call himself one:



> Yes i will accept you as a sindhi, you live in sindh, you speak either sindhi or urdu but you will adopt the culture of sindh and learn History of Sindh, You are truly a sindhi, I infact consider all muhajirs Of karachi Urdu speaking Sindhis cuz they all live in sindh, Pushtoons And balochs are also Muhajirs in karachi same as muhajirs from India migrated they migrated from Sarhad now KPK and baluchistan in search of jobs, Its their Right Cuz we all live in same Nation and we should tolerate each other.



Being from such a family myself I know very well that we refuse to integrate not that they don't want us to. It is a lie perpetuated by the MQM. Your days are over "Mr I am a terrorist of Altaf in the government". 

Also if you get time consider how foolish you are. @Icewolf is a Muhajir... he migrated from a region that is now in Indian Gujrat I believe. He now calls himself a Sindhi but the proper term Muhajir is supposed to mean all migrants. Now in migrants there are Pashtuns, Sindhis and Punjabis. Aren't you insulting yourself and fellow muhajirs? Also do think about how foolish all of this is. Muhajirs all have a different culture-I am a lucknowi muhajir who knows nothing about the dhoti of a madrasi muhajir or the Bihari kababs that Biharis eat-mine is the Kakori kabab-so how we can unite with him but look down at Punjabis and Sindhis? 

How are we all muhajirs when we don't even share the same culture yet for this one false identity you can't stop voting for terror chief just because he is one like you? This shows the entire problem. I will be surprised to find anyone outside Karachi supporting Altaf. 

I don't know what our forefathers thought when they decided it was some izzat ka mamla to maintain a biased term like Muhajir that meant pilgrim but I will undo the mistake. We were supposed to merge with other ethnicities and that is what Quaid E Azam wished. 



> Whatever dude....



Listen, learn something. I am writing a paper that can go to something like 50 pages on ethnic relations and issues in Pakistan. I have the ability to write a report on Muhajir identity and its falsity too. You are incapable of debating with me here. I have every figure, every fact, every statistic, and as a journalist I can find out pretty much anything. There is no debating with a person like me. Instead what you can do is change your thinking because if you continue believing partition was a blunder we have every right to refer to you as a traitor and the only place that will be left to you may be the terror camps Ajmal Pahari trained in, in India. 

No one will divide one Pakistani from the other. I will defend every other ethnic group if it is attacked my bigots like you. You spat on our sacrifice anyway by calling partition a mistake.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Mav3rick

somebozo said:


> I was also in Karachi during 91-92 and 95-96.
> Operation was every bit good thing as it bought peace back to the city put an end to bori band lash and for a long time crime & bhatta was really down in the city.



You consider the 15k dead in those early 3-4 years to be peace? Then I guess peace to you is very different then what it is to me. There were ethnic issues much before APMSO was established, there was a reason MQM attracted such a massive supporter base in Karachi/Hyderabad. Either all MQM supporters were terrorists/traitors or there was a crucial need for MQM.

Anyhow, if you only had any idea how history at all. The military and para military forces (including police) had tried their utmost for peace and had warned all political parties to end support for their ethnic militant wings. For this reason, PPP severed ties with Al-Zulfiqar and MQM expelled Afaq Ahmed & Amir Khan, both had armed youth loyal to them who were inclined more towards armed struggle against the victimization of Urdu speaking rather then to indulge in dialogues. Thus MQM-H was born, sort of at the behest of Military but the Military was not supporting any militant wings at this junction.

Soon after the retirement of Army Chief Mirza Aslam Baig, General Asif Nawaz Janjua was made the army chief. Asif Janjua always held a grudge against MQM ever since he was the corp commander of Karachi and had prayed on many occasions to the military and civilian establishment to start military operations against MQM and MQM alone. Anyway, in 1992 a military operation was launched in interior Sindh against dacoits which soon turned anti MQM after the military raid on Nine-Zero which took even the prime minister Nawaz Sharif by surprise who flew to meet Altaf Hussain in London. The Military was out of Nawaz's control for this operation by now.

Pretty soon there was a case uncovered in interior Sindh when Army/Rangers personnel were found guilty of murder of several innocent men who were claimed as dacoits as it was found that the men were killed by the forces to support land grabbing. The operation in interior Sindh was immediately stopped. While operation in Karachi was expanded even further despite similar cases reported by HRW and other neutral agencies.

The reality is quite bitter mate and when you dig deep enough MQM will come out looking like the better side!


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## Chak Bamu

Closer to topic. Here is Hamid Mir with an excellent column in Urdu on our Quaid, Freedom struggle, Passport, Oath as Gov. Gen., and Altaf's Bakwas.

Jang Multimedia
@Mav3rick, interesting twist in logic mate. But that does not change facts. I honor and respect you as a fellow Pakistani who actually does care enough to participate in discussions. But frankly, MQM is now standing at a cross-roads. This year or the next shall see major re-organization within MQM. Altaf is a liability, so are the MQM-linked goons. I hope doves in MQM come out on top. With time MQM could reclaim its rightful place. There are some exceptional people in MQM and I hope they would be able to participate fully in Pakistan's political space to highlight issues of their constituency as well as play a positive part in our National politics.


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## Mav3rick

haviZsultan said:


> Let us say there is a person who is sure he can bash through a castle wall by punching and kicking. He doesnt realize that he simply is incapable of doing so.
> 
> Unfortunately the person thinks he can bash through those stone defences. The only time he realizes he cannot is when sinister hands come out of the wall and slaps this person on the face... after which he runs off. I can draw striking parallels between this person and you.



And I can draw a parallel of someone who lives in a fairyland and dreams up stuff. The resemblance is quite uncanny.





haviZsultan said:


> The argument you are having with me now, W.11 and darkinsky and many others have had before and you can ask them how much luck they had. The only terrorist I spared who said partition was a mistake was Karachiite and that on account of things he told me about his own family history. There is nothing you can say to me... every other person understands that I do not leave someone who insults another ethnic group or community or advocates concepts such as loyalty to India, Afghanistan or any other state despite being a Pakistani citizen.



I honestly do not understand where I have insulted any ethnicity, anywhere. Furthermore, listen and listen well, your loyalty and patriotism cannot even imagine to match that of mine! I, unlike the likes of you who would flee the country the first chance they get, am a dual citizen living and serving my country in no other city then Karachi and serving the federal Government in the capacity that does actually make the country better. It's time to come out of the la la land!!





haviZsultan said:


> The fact I am a born urdu speaker, raised for 20+ years being told I am one and Karachite myself who can counter your rubbish hatred-filled Anti-Pakistani narrative in mere seconds destroys any claims of bias or discrimination you wish to make. Even the Pashtuns, the identity I am adopting have a greater right to ignore my comments as those of a wannabe with my weak unproven links but you simply cannot do that. There is no defense, no escape from a person with every statistic, every piece of information in his hands.
> 
> Maverick when someone attacks my country and its right to exist, especially a traitor who eats and drinks from this aziz mitti I forget everything.



Honestly, your blabbering and rubbish statements do not make an iota of sense! Your logic is flawed and your post is most likely referring to someone you just imagined! As far as Karachi is concerned, I have spent over 25 years in this city, raised and born amongst friends and family belonging to all ethnicities and I have tasted the good, the bad and the ugly of this city. I am intimiate not only with the city but also the city politics including that of MQM, PPP and ANP. And I am a realist who speaks what is true and I am a witness to the city's decline unlike wannabe's like you who have no real idea of ground realities as you have either never lived in Karachi or have lived in some posh area under protected environment. I know the basis and realities of stories that were made up by the media, JIT, political parties etc. and advertised through PTV throughout the early 90's! People like you want to believe what they are fed instead of trying to open up their minds in an attempt to find the other side of the stories as well. Keep down the biased opinions, they only spread hatred. 





haviZsultan said:


> The problem is not that I don't have proof. There are 4 testimonies of various people to prove this, I can name the 4 people (I am an independent journalist) which I have learned from a SSP in Karachi but it is beyond a terrorist mind that calls my family's sacrifice to form this country a mistake to accept. You do not want to accept... this is your problem. You truly are Indian lovers, even @Karachiite, you guys can't comprehend the atrocities these MQM mass murderers have committed. What is stopping you from crossing the border? You are disgrace to every true migrant family anyway. I am not loyal to "Muhajirs" true or consider myself one but I am loyal to my family that passed through great ordeals, left property behind, left all wealth, brothers, parents and sisters behind just because they believed in Pakistan and their belief *was unshakable*, something which is impossible to relay to an Indian backed traitor like yourself.



That is not the real problem, it is a fact that there indeed is no proof of any such incident. Had that been the case, AH would have been eaten up by Karachiites who are more loyal to the country than anybody else. And when you cannot post proof you bring up stories. I wonder why you even believe something that is hearsay. I was wondering whether your stories are only stories and my belief is further strengthened as your words are words that I have written and put across with just lines changed but of similar essence. You are merely posing to be a family member of a migrant who decently and in the highest acts of patriotism and self sacrifice, left everything behind for Pakistan.....that is the definition of your average migrant!!





haviZsultan said:


> Perhaps you forgot how we were killed by Indian mobs on the way and we had only and only a solid belief in Pakistan and its ideology when we crossed the borders not to add the Indians killed people we knew. In my case it is not just my grandfathers who know people who were murdered. In my case I personally know people who died.


 
I did not forget, my fore fathers were a part of the migration and the freedom struggle before that!





haviZsultan said:


> The victim mindset comes like a storm making debate impossible... "what could we poor oppressed people have done."
> 
> We could have risen up and became an example for the rest of the country just like today we could have fought the ethnic tensions, challenged ethnic identity and defended other ethnic groups or simply merged with them. But people like you were the reason I decided to have no link with you guys or with muhajir identity. A reply to this comes later-it is about how Urdu-speakers by refusing to recognize indigenous languages played a part in breaking Bengal.



Not including you, we were and still are an example for the whole country. We started from nothing and now we have everything, by the grace of Allah and because of our faith in hard and honest work.Urdu was chosen to be the National Language by none other then the founding fathers of this nation. You want to know why Urdu was made the the official language? It was because it was a neutral language that was affiliated with Muslims, it was the official language of the Mughal emperors and it was most widely understood throughout the sub continent. There are many other reasons too. Urdu was supposed to do exactly the opposite of dividing Pakistanis into language based ethnicity. It was meant to unite Bengalis (who wanted Bangla to be the official language), Punjabis (who supported Punjabi) and so on. 

Your understanding is a pathetic joke and you are a miserable student of history/journalism!!!





haviZsultan said:


> Save it. If you do not believe in Pakistan then how are you serving it, MQM target killer? There was a PPP thug in our family very much like you and he used to say the same things about the mistake of Pakistan's formation and other such rubbish. I used to get out of the room because if I stayed with him I might have slapped him despite his age.



This is getting quite personal now. I am not one who wants to get personal on some forum as then the real mettle of the person is not tested. You want to get personal, get personal in person! I live in Karachi and can take this up with you in any part of the city you wish. This is not a threat, just an invitation to understand me in person.





haviZsultan said:


> Provinces is a different matter. Treason to Quaid E Azam and nation another thing. Do not try to divert the discussion. You talk about rights but I know how that goes. My uncle said "we urdu-speakers have no rights here" then went on to insult Balochs, Pashtuns. His exacts words "Its because of these pagals coming to our city." I have been hearing it almost daily in Karachi. Since you are part of the same thing don't you dare talk to me about rights. You are just a bigot, an ethno-chauvinist and being from your ethnic group unfortunately I know in our drawing room conversations insults are all that fly for the other ethnic groups. When we say Pathan meri juti key neechey in front of him do we think how that guy would feel? It is an honor to adopt Pashtun identity, that of a person who is really mazloom in karachi city than be among racists like you... thank you.



No pathan or any other ethnicity is under anybody's joota. That's pure BS and words of an illiterate fool! The founding father of ANP once stated in his speech that Pathans do what Mohajirs cannot do and Mohajirs do what Pathans cannot do. This is a fact. You look realistically at what Pathans do, what Baloch do, what Punjabis do, what Sindhi do, what Urdu speaking do and there are differences. Pathans are usually hard physical workers, laborers and businesses, Baloch are not much into anything except to be left alone to their culture, Punjabis & Sindhis are into farming predominantly and in education, business etc., Mohajirs are mostly job and education oriented and also in business. Even the businesses of different communities usually differ in nature.

And then you bring in Afghans, I don't even wanna go into that.





haviZsultan said:


> Figures for you about the Muhajir community. Rupees 13,000+ gdp per capita than the Punjabis who are at second, almost 30,000 more than the Balochs according to H&H research group. An HDI rating higher than any other community. Access to the best schools, colleges, hospitals, all a gift of being in the main cities of Pakistan-have you ever bothered to go to interior Sindh to see the utter penury the people live in? Now we are going to say we are oppressed? Is this a joke?



Owners of interior Sindh formed Governments and had serving Prime Ministers for over 12 years, 7 of those years were with absolute power yet fate of interior Sindh has not changed. You speak of Hospitals, Colleges, Universities and other facilities in the city of Karachi, well it is the biggest city to start with and most of these facilities are private owned and established and operated by the residents of this city!!!

When we speak of oppression we are speaking of the quota system that brings in an undeserving person to an important post just because his community votes for the powers that continue to keep them in these conditions. And the more these undeserving people get these jobs, the more their hold grows stronger and the country weaker. There have been instances where jobs have been advertised which clearly stated that people with domicile from Karachi should not apply!!!

Perhaps it is time to read up the condition and state of affairs of the country and bureaucracy in general before and after Bhutto!!!





haviZsultan said:


> An old post:
> 
> 
> Still, somehow to develop a political identity we need Altaf...
> Good luck to that and killing every one else. I won't support it out of my duty to Pakistan.



Did you bother to confirm the stats of that post? I highly doubt you did because the last I checked there was strict quota compliance on all Government jobs! But people like you, self declared journalists and what not, would rather jump on posts that reflect their own notion rather then cross checking the post and fact finding!





haviZsultan said:


> Their backers were with the same mindset they have today. Proof that Bangladesh happened because of Urdu speakers too and our wish to maintain urdu. 2) (Article heading 2) URDU endangered? (in 1952)
> 
> A strong reaction is emerging in the West wing to the East Bengal provincial assembly's decision to make Bengali second national language (along with Urdu), dubbing such language demands from Bengal as treason against Pakistan and a threat to the existence of Urdu.
> 
> A section of journalists has also demanded removal of two non-native Urdu speakers from the editorship of English newspapers including Dawn. (Now who is most interested in maintaining Urdu as a language-us Urdu speakers who had the same mentality we have today, MashaAllah. You threw away Bengal out of urdu-speaking chauvinism and now you dare to blame it on other communities! Not only that use it as a tool to claim partition a blunder. Shame on you. Altaf should be hanged for that speech as it is done in Turkey. Maybe if we had let the two urdu speakers be removed and not made everything an issue we could have saved 71 from occurring.)
> 
> I am by birth an urdu speaker by choice a Pashtun, every breathe of mine screams Pakistani Nationalism and I will die sword in hand but will never let another Bangladesh happen again and the potential for this to happen comes from Altaf Hussain. Pakistan first second and last.



O Hero, drame band ker de!! Khuda ka wasta hai!

Aur pehle samajh to le AH ne kaha kia tha us ko latkane se pehle!!





haviZsultan said:


> Excuse me. Didn't you just attack my brother @Chak Bamu, Punjabis and Sindhis and belittle Chak Bamu's ancestors role in the formation of Pakistan? You MQM terrorists cannot take part in a single debate without bashing another ethnicity or looking at them down your nose and now you are saying you don't bash ethnicity? Let me pull out some of your posts and they will reveal the truth real quickly... I suggest you learn from @darkinsky... he stopped racist posts too for which I am truly thankful. I would also request him to reassess his loyalty to MQM. But of course I cannot force him.
> 
> And in front of me do not dare to insult the heritage and history of @Chak Bamu. If you had the ability to understand it you would know he idolizes Urdu despite his mother-tongue being Punjabi and once had high hopes with the MQM. Punjabis are the reason Urdu which is our language spread to every nook and corner in Pakistan. Instead of feeling for others and respecting them we criticize them and their history.



Read his post above yours aur agar itni si bhi ghairat ho to stop posting rubbish again.





haviZsultan said:


> My mind gets a little befuddled when someone says something about partition being a mistake. It is a test of my patience. You didn't ask which period this information was for but MQM supporters aren't known to be smart. They vote for Altaf because he is a Muhajir and they are the same, they are from Karachi and Altaf is too which doesn't really show a cultured or educated upbringing, sorry to say which serves as a primary example that a university graduate can be as illiterate as a villager. Its for 2012 by CPLC and Sindh police. You may not easily find it-a journalist can by making calls here and there.
> 
> 
> 
> I was checking the solved cases too. You can't escape a journalist, even an unsuccessful one like me. I have *EVERY* fact here.
> 
> Here I will bring 7 cases you can check in the database of Sindh police (I wrote them down) which were solved and found out to be by MQM target killers. I will only mention first names as I do not trust you as you could be a target killer. *Shahzeb*, murdered at restaurant-MQM worker arrested. *Sohaib*-murdered by MQM target killer. *Abbas* murdered, his brother injured in targeted attack-the name of killer Shafi Alias Bilal who was in contact with Ajmal Pahari but he may escape as the prosecution is very weak (haven't checked on progress of case), next *Salim *whose target killer was killed in an encounter-was from orangi, next *Adil *his target killer was just a paid person-he wasn't affiliated with MQM but confessed in court of having been paid, next *Mohammed *and finally *Qasim *both killed in a shooting at some roundabout.
> 
> Also I checked out the case of Syed Salahuddin, editor of Takbeer who was killed by target killer Ajmal Pahari who is responsible for 100+ murders. He is out of jail yet again just like Malik Ishaq. This is who my beysharam people of Karachi vote for. Now before denying this... go to the police and find out about these cases.



You forgot the couple of goats and a chicken that were killed by Ajmal Pahari in 1941 for the British!! This Ajmal Pahari must be the real james bond and must have a license to kill indeed. Sheep, led by sheep indeed.





haviZsultan said:


> Do note when the constable helping me make sense of the information showed be the file and I noticed for the first 7 solved cases it had been MQM workers or MQM paid target killers that had been used I stopped looking though yes I will admit in some older pages there were cases against PPP workers as well.
> 
> A high profile case would be Wali Babar and murder of the Chief architects of operation clean-up. Wonder why anyone else would kill him? Here is what happened to those who participated in 92 operation against MQM terror gang.:
> *
> What happened to the 92 cops who disappeared after 1992?  The Express Tribune*



There were roughly 259 police officers involved in the operation out of which 254 have been murdered (according to Jang a week or so back). I won't speak of who murdered them because many would have been motivated for such a task especially those who lost family members to the extrajudicial executions that were being carried out by these police officials on ethnic basis.





haviZsultan said:


> You do not need to copy my exact words. Didn't I say objectively and critically first... but proves that basically Altaf says kill all other ethnic groups and you jump on his lap like a little kid and let him ruffle your hair while you shout the same thing.



You are not very smart. I had posted that you were merely copying and pasting words like "objectively and critically" without having the intelligence to actually use the 2 traits as if you had used them you would not have posted what you did. What you understood from my post proves to me how smart you actually are.





haviZsultan said:


> Do note, I cannot believe anyone can be so objective in Pakistan to condemn his own ethnic group of birth so severely and its behavior in Pakistan for the purpose of ethnic unity and Nationalism which you lack. You want me to accept a terrorist organization as a constant presence in this city. It will never happen. *That above is a load of proof.* Another proof. MQM hosted in 1984 as the Muhajir Quami movement. Figures from 1985-1990, no surpise here! 3000 deaths in Karachi. That is what the MQM is.



People like you have no value to the real Karachiites and MQM's support will continue to grow whether you like it or not. It is because there is no alternate to MQM.

* Will continue when have more time *


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## haviZsultan

Mav3rick said:


> And I can draw a parallel of someone who lives in a fairyland and dreams up stuff. The resemblance is quite uncanny.



A person with a brain can usually think... but I believe you do not have that ability with the worm in the head. Altaf is like a worm in the head. If he appears there very little can be done to take him out. You are very much like a cancer patient with a disease-in this case your mental issues prevent you from recognizing their is a problem with how you think and you continue denying and shifting blame, shifting blame being a feature of an ethno-fascists.

There is an indisputable link between MQM supporters and Taliban sympathizers. Both of them no matter faced with what monumental evidence continue denying and stating there is no issue when there is a huge issue. Those were police reports I gave you for godsake. Information from CCP and Sindh police!



> I honestly do not understand where I have insulted any ethnicity, anywhere. Furthermore, listen and listen well, your loyalty and patriotism cannot even imagine to match that of mine!



Laughable statement for someone who does not believe in Pakistan? If so why are you justifying the speech of Altaf? Partition being a mistake means actually wishing Pakistan wasn't formed. I don't believe with Altaf dancing in your head you can understand that. 

I know how you guys start this entire race war in every debate by insulting another ethnic group. Others who came here never noticed but I noticed this insult to Chak Bamu caused him to defend his ancestors, heritage and sacrifices. It was a direct insult to his sacrifice. You start things, then blame others. It is an MQM tactic:



> The Mohajir identity was not coined by the urdu speaking Mohajirs, neither were the problems that rooted out of their loyalty and support for Fatima Jinnah (instead of Field Marshal Ayub Khan). I have posted many informative things from the sacrifices the migrants made to the freedom struggles where most of the residents of Punjab & Sindh had no participation and Khan of Kalat (ANP) etc. openly voted against Pakistan. Your outburst, whether you understand it or not, is actually against urdu speaking migrants, *whom I consider more of a claimant then those who never lifted a finger for this freedom!!!*



In the last part you state the belief that Urdu-speakers are better, sacrificed more (which is a myth) something which is being covered as chauvinistic self-gratification in my paper on ethnic issues and hence is one of the issues from which a lot of other problems are born. Your mindset is the problem. 



> I, unlike the likes of you who would flee the country the first chance they get, am a dual citizen living and serving my country in no other city then Karachi



Lol. I go outside and bring thousands of dollars for hungry Pakistanis at home, in Pakistan I raise only 10000 rupees, there I raise thousands of dollars. You have no idea that since you people are too busy killing each other in the name of ethnicity and religion or supporting terrorist groups, corrupt parties or militant parties like MQM the overseas Pakistanis usually do not fall for these foolish things and think only of their country. 80% of the funding for our movement came from overseas Pakistanis while the majority of members were in Pakistan. 



> and *serving the federal Government* in the capacity that does actually make the country better. It's time to come out of the la la land!!



I knew that you were in government which is the only reason you can so shamelessly defend your terrorist party. My relative in Canada was the same thing... he served in the government under the PPP which has developed a record of producing traitors and said Muhajirs were superior to everyone else. Was it a surprise he did not believe in Pakistan at all? You don't either do you since you call partition a mistake. Why don't you take your words back?

You just slapped my family on the face by the way telling them that their moving across the border sacrificing everything from home, property, jewellery and even links to brothers and sisters in our ancestral area was a mistake. All of us migrants deserve an apology for that. 

By the way why do all people in government think they are better than everyone else? 



> Honestly, your blabbering and rubbish statements do not make an iota of sense! Your logic is flawed and your post is most likely referring to someone you just imagined! As far as Karachi is concerned, I have spent over 25 years in this city, raised and born amongst friends and family belonging to all ethnicities and I have tasted the good, the bad and the ugly of this city. I am intimiate not only with the city but also the city politics including that of MQM, PPP and ANP.



I bet. As a person in the federal government how many body guards do you keep when you walk around the city? Have you stepped behind the walls of your castle? There are no go areas for MQM supporters and no go areas for PPP and ANP supporters. Everyone knows this very well.



> And I am a realist who speaks what is true and I am a witness to the city's decline unlike wannabe's like you who have no real idea of ground realities as you have either never lived in Karachi or have lived in some posh area under protected environment.



Are you for real? My grand-father left his entire house and support of his family to arrive in Pakistan and here he rode a cycle, his kids didn't have money for lunch or taking a bus-instead trekked to school every day for an hour to go back and forth. How dare you, an MQM terrorist sitting in federal government attack the sacrifices of my family. Karachi is my home and in case you didn't notice this is where I am now. You spent lots of years in Australia too which I must say is a base for CIA activity.  Have to wonder why you called partition a mistake. Someday when migrants will realize your real purpose-boy-is the MQM going to suffer. 

You have not once spoken about one statistic I revealed. Can you explain those 3000 deaths and how the rise of the MQM was proportional to the rise of target killings and ethnic tensions?

But being in the federal government-probably there due to MQM. Which ministry are you in by the way? And how are you serving Pakistan? By keeping any other ethnicity out of "your" ministry.



> I know the basis and realities of stories that were made up by the media, JIT, political parties etc. and advertised through PTV throughout the early 90's! People like you want to believe what they are fed instead of trying to open up their minds in an attempt to find the other side of the stories as well. Keep down the biased opinions, they only spread hatred.



Personally now knowing you work for this corrupt government made up of terrorists, criminals, rapists and thieves I am not very surprised that you deny solid evidence that include names of the ones killed and their target killers. You are like a suicide bomber brought on tv by Saleem Safi. You will keep defending these terrorists no matter what they do. It is unfortunate that people like you sitting in federal government and looking down their noses at others including fellow muhajirs like a poor family from lucknow that struggled to get where it is today. 

It is even more surprising that a person sitting in federal government justifies Altaf's speech which automatically reveals he wishes Pakistan wasn't formed at all and looks down on other ethnic groups. If you want to look at why our country is where it is take a mirror and look at yourself... but when you do I know you will only grin like an idiot taking pride over what you have done to this country because like any politician you think the country cannot survive without you despite being like a leech who leeches life from this great nation. You guys have made Pakistanis captive in their own land. 

I talked to a Haqiqi guy and you know what he said. He hopes that an urdu-speaker one day shoots Altaf dead. I would like to say a lot of urdu speakers agree with him (both muhajir and urdu speaker however are incorrect or discriminatory terms though)



> That is not the real problem, it is a fact that there indeed is no proof of any such incident. Had that been the case, AH would have been eaten up by Karachiites who are more loyal to the country than anybody else.



The issue is lack of awareness and the ethnic identity obfuscating or being used against the National identity. That was a case in Altaf's speech as well. Karachites will eventually get rid of Altaf. Ask the police who have every bit of evidence... if they investigate they may even find someone like you in the "federal government" supporting the killers which is the reason for your keen-ness to defend them.


> And when you cannot post proof you bring up stories.



Is that a brain in there or has the worm eaten all of it?  Those were reports of cases, entire files I shared. But federal government... right... 



> I wonder why you even believe something that is hearsay. I was wondering whether your stories are only stories and my belief is further strengthened as your words are words that I have written and put across with just lines changed but of similar essence. You are merely posing to be a family member of a migrant who decently and in the highest acts of patriotism and self sacrifice, left everything behind for Pakistan.....that is the definition of your average migrant!!



Lol. A patriot does not take part in the ethnic tensions... he rises above them, defends his brothers of other ethnicities and has a *National *mindset not an *ethnic *mindset. He doesn't try to keep all resources to himself, make Karachi his personal jageer and say no one else has a right to come here. Our past was once glorious. We hosted leaders like Hasrat Mohani and Muslim League leaders in our house in Lucknow... now we are in decline. There is no history of us after 1947 except the rubbish imposed on us by MQM. We are not muhajirs but Lucknowites, Biharis, Hyderabadis, Madrasis and others. That is the real culture anyway. If someone tells me I can unite with a Bihari whose urdu is almost not understandable for me then why should I look for an excuse to divide with a Punjabi or Sindhi and develop a separate identity?-its hypocrisy and an attempt to divide from my country.

I suggest you be a real son of a migrant and stop creating hate between communities and stop supporting terror chief. By far the average migrant today is in decline. I see it in my family, my relatives, everyone... and it is painful to see people who once so strongly believed in Pakistan now keen only to maintain this stupid terminology and their privileged position. 

I am from Lucknow and the muhajir identity has by birth been imposed on me. I refuse to call myself one but that won't change the fact that I am the son of someone who crossed the border and came from Lucknow. You however may be an Indian agent sent by Modi?  Where are you from? Which state?



> I did not forget, my fore fathers were a part of the migration and the freedom struggle before that!



And how proud they must be that their son is a traitor who called the partition a mistake and hence their movement to Pakistan the same. 



> Not including you, we were and still are an example for the whole country.



I have educated many kids and been the leader of a Nationalist front. You have no clue who I am. A person who divides his people, his nation by ethnicity or religion can never be a hero or an example. The only thing you are an example of is a person whose brain has stopped working due to the Altaf worm crawling within it.



> We started from nothing and now we have everything, by the grace of Allah and because of our faith in hard and honest work.



That is our history... not a terrorist like yours. If you remember correctly you and your people were shooting people in the streets since APMSO days. Our city has now become the murder capital of the world as MQM has risen. If that is hard, honest work then I believe I want no part in it. 



> Urdu was chosen to be the National Language by none other then the founding fathers of this nation. You want to know why Urdu was made the the official language? It was because it was a neutral language that was affiliated with Muslims, it was the official language of the Mughal emperors and it was most widely understood throughout the sub continent.



The official language initially of the mughals was Persian and was spoken in the courts and throughout by royalty and nobles. That ensured its neutrality as none of the subjects spoke it. But I agree with this point and have stated it regularly. 

However Urdu would have remained a neutral language only if urdu-speakers themselves had merged with local communities and therefore it could be claimed by no one that Urdu was favorable to a select group. So in a way you are claiming that by refusing to call ourselves Sindhis, Pashtuns and Punjabis or merging we caused the ethnic problems in the country. Thanks for admitting. But at least I plan to set things right by merging as a Pashtun and defending other ethnic groups from MQM terrorists like you and refuting your claims of being victims.



> There are many other reasons too. Urdu was supposed to do exactly the opposite of dividing Pakistanis into language based ethnicity. It was meant to unite Bengalis (who wanted Bangla to be the official language), Punjabis (who supported Punjabi) and so on.



Punjabis whole-heartedly supported urdu during and after... but that is a separate debate. But in any case with urdu-speakers becoming a separate ethnic group this purpose became an obscure one. So we basically stepped on Jinnah's grave... that wouldn't matter to you since Altaf burned the flag and called partition a blunder which indirectly meant both that Jinnah was a fool and Pakistan's formation a mistake.



> Your understanding is a pathetic joke and you are a miserable student of history/journalism!!!



This guy remind anyone of @Sher Malang. This comment:



> Yours is a Muhajir version of Pashtun history!!



Are you Sher Malang's brother?



> This is getting quite personal now. I am not one who wants to get personal on some forum as then the real mettle of the person is not tested. You want to get personal, get personal in person! I live in Karachi and can take this up with you in any part of the city you wish. This is not a threat, just an invitation to understand me in person.



It was nothing personal, I compared you to a relative who really got me angry. What is personal is calling partition a blunder and being surrounded by those thick walls of your house and burly bodyguards in a posh defense home while not knowing how an average urdu speaker on the street will react to this when he sees it. 

There is a woman called Sana. Check her case out. Entire family murdered in Hyderabad, India. We moved members of her family. This is what happens to our people in India... there is nothing more insulting to those of us who lost family members there than a callous person like you calling partition a mistake. I seek an apology. 



> No pathan or any other ethnicity is under anybody's joota. That's pure BS and words of an illiterate fool!



Then it would be wise to try and stop anyone like Muhajirs from saying it. They have always said things like this or worse.



> The founding father of ANP once stated in his speech that Pathans do what Mohajirs cannot do and Mohajirs do what Pathans cannot do. This is a fact. You look realistically at what Pathans do, what Baloch do, what Punjabis do, what Sindhi do, what Urdu speaking do and there are differences. Pathans are usually hard physical workers, laborers and businesses, Baloch are not much into anything except to be left alone to their culture, Punjabis & Sindhis are into farming predominantly and in education, business etc., Mohajirs are mostly job and education oriented and also in business. Even the businesses of different communities usually differ in nature.



I feel that is a childish way to look at things... there is no guarantee a Sindhi will always be a farmer. Also Muhajirs are job and education oriented. Again perpetuating the same thing-that my family and others like it are and have a right to be at the top while the rest suffer. I would rather reduce the suffering of the Sindhi or Pashtun than be a part of this. 



> And then you bring in Afghans, I don't even wanna go into that.



No Afghans (nation) mentioned in the part of the post you quoted.



> Owners of interior Sindh formed Governments and had serving Prime Ministers for over 12 years, 7 of those years were with absolute power yet fate of interior Sindh has not changed. You speak of Hospitals, Colleges, Universities and other facilities in the city of Karachi, well it is the biggest city to start with and most of these facilities are private owned and established and operated by the residents of this city!!!



Stop blaming others. The population of Sindh is 63% Sindhi 18% urdu speaking and other races make up the rest. Now a bigot like you wants a so-called Muhajir on every top position? What does it matter? Is a Sindhi not a Pakistani? I am very proud of them. I hope each and every chief minister is a sindhi and no one ever comes from my migrant communities. They want one phool, I will give them a dozen. That is how u build love. If they ask for a phool when you have 20 and you make it a lungi affair it creates division which MQM excels at. 

Realities again will prove you a fool working to divide Pakistan by fomenting ethnic tensions. Despite the majority being Sindhi 60% of governors for Sindh were urdu-speakers and Ishrat Ul Ibad is perhaps the longest serving governor in the history of Pakistan and Sindh. Stop belittling fellow Pakistanis sacrifice to perpetuate the myth that you are the only one who sacrificed. 

We all know in your eyes the sacrifice doesn't count since you call partition a blunder meaning it was a mistake for us to migrate. Don't you dare talk about sacrifice about which you don't give a damn. 



> When we speak of oppression we are speaking of the quota system that brings in an undeserving person to an important post just because his community votes for the powers that continue to keep them in these conditions. And the more these undeserving people get these jobs, the more their hold grows stronger and the country weaker. There have been instances where jobs have been advertised which clearly stated that people with domicile from Karachi should not apply!!!/QUOTE]
> 
> You are speaking about nothing. Whatever MQM barks-woof woof! You do the same without thinking that this is the first step to cutting out the land, especially when one instead of calling for Altaf sahib to be hanged when he makes the speech, defends him.
> 
> By the way which party has backed you. You work for the federal government. Do you hold a position of importance? Did MQM help in getting you where you are or is it just a normal lower level staff job?
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> Perhaps it is time to read up the condition and state of affairs of the country and bureaucracy in general before and after Bhutto!!!
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> My job is not to defend Bhutto. It is to tell you that you sir, are a bigot!
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> Did you bother to confirm the stats of that post? I highly doubt you did because the last I checked there was strict quota compliance on all Government jobs! But people like you, self declared journalists and what not, would rather jump on posts that reflect their own notion rather then cross checking the post and fact finding!
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> 
> I never talked either against the qouta system not for it. You being a highly educated person who believes everyone else should be cleaning your posts failed to read the post clearly. It was for Radio Pakistan that I posted statistics and radio Pakistan is run by the government. There is no qouta for the directors. Altaf is dancing like a demon in your brain which makes it impossible for you to use it.
> 
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> O Hero, drame band ker de!! Khuda ka wasta hai!
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> Aur pehle samajh to le AH ne kaha kia tha us ko latkane se pehle!!
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> Uski speech defend karna band kar warna ham sab tujhey ghaddar bolengey.
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> Read his post above yours aur agar itni si bhi ghairat ho to stop posting rubbish again.
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> I read not only that post but the post before it in which you provoked him. You MQM supporters somehow happen to provoke or take part in about 90% of the ethnic abuse and insults that fly here on PDF. Am I surprised?
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> You forgot the couple of goats and a chicken that were killed by Ajmal Pahari in 1941 for the British!! This Ajmal Pahari must be the real james bond and must have a license to kill indeed. Sheep, led by sheep indeed.
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> 
> This is not a Taliban propaganda video... step out of the "victim syndrome" and this vehement "denial" aimed at defending life hero Altaf Hussain. He is not God as is taught to MQM workers and confirmed by Saulat Mirza in his confession tape. He is a terror chief with how many, 3576 cases filed against him ranging from bombings, firebombings, terrorism, murders, torture, rape, land grabbing, bori bund lashein and other unspeakable brutality. Man there is a video of Ajmal Pahari's confession!
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> There were roughly 259 police officers involved in the operation out of which 254 have been murdered (according to Jang a week or so back). I won't speak of who murdered them because many would have been motivated for such a task especially those who lost family members to the extrajudicial executions that were being carried out by these police officials on ethnic basis.
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> 
> Lol. By this brilliant logic then with 3000+ cases against him before the NRO there would be thousands motivated to shoot Altaf Hussain which is why he hides in London. By the way that article was about those who disappeared. I have this statistic. But there are constables as well. That operation was the best thing ever done in Karachi and violence dropped for a long period.
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> You are not very smart. I had posted that you were merely copying and pasting words like "objectively and critically" without having the intelligence to actually use the 2 traits as if you had used them you would not have posted what you did. What you understood from my post proves to me how smart you actually are.
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> Talk about objectivity with a bigot.
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> People like you have no value to the real Karachiites and MQM's support will continue to grow whether you like it or not. It is because there is no alternate to MQM.
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> Unless the MQM shoots me like they shot the Bihari Qaumi Movement president who caused grievous losses to you guys, I and many other true Karachites like Oscar and dozens of others here will stand against this terrorist party. You ignored every piece of evidence in that post. Clearly if Altaf will try to merge with India you will support him. This is how Bangladesh was formed.
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> * Will continue when have more time *
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> Good way to deny uncomfortable realities... deflecting the blame on to X and Y, claiming yourself the victim oppressed by the others, self gratification that you did more... all covered in my report. Only a true hero of Pakistan can look within and identify his faults. Pakistan is for all of us and this land means more to me than anything else.
Click to expand...


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## Mav3rick

Before I begin the post I would like to explicitly state that I am neither a member of APMSO/MQM neither am I an outright diehard fan/supporter. My defense of certain things pertaining to MQM is purely driven by a desire to show you all the other side of the picture. Only when you truly have both sides of the story, can you actually make up your mind....that is if you are not biased and brainwashed already.

I am an open critic of MQM, on issues that should be criticized and I support things that should be supported, much like I am with all other political parties and even the Military. Anyway, here we go:





haviZsultan said:


> A person with a brain can usually think... but I believe you do not have that ability with the worm in the head. Altaf is like a worm in the head. If he appears there very little can be done to take him out. You are very much like a cancer patient with a disease-in this case your mental issues prevent you from recognizing their is a problem with how you think and you continue denying and shifting blame, shifting blame being a feature of an ethno-fascists.



Your posts are full of personal attacks. It's most likely because you do not have proof of any wrong doing of MQM but have been brain washed with media propaganda.





haviZsultan said:


> There is an indisputable link between MQM supporters and Taliban sympathizers. Both of them no matter faced with what monumental evidence continue denying and stating there is no issue when there is a huge issue. Those were police reports I gave you for godsake. Information from CCP and Sindh police!



2 things I would like to speak of here, first is that the Talibaan are freedom fighters who are fighting for their country and as instructed by their religion. If tomorrow, God forbid, Pakistan is attacked then all patriots will take up arms and will defend the country.....that would make us terrorists to the invaders, however we will be patriots to our country and countrymen. And please do not confuse Talibaan with TTP terrorists.

Secondly, it is quite frustrating for me when people give me police reports despite the fact that police is the most corrupt and politically driven force in the entire country. Today, no citizen trusts the police department; we all know how infected they are with corruption, political victimization, dacoity, street crimes, abuse of power etc. Actually, a person enters the police force only for the haraam ki kamai in it. How many honest police officers are there in the police force is anybody's guess! This is a force that will register an FIR against any xyz on any number of charges if some abc paid them (or forced them if in power)! I know this intimately because of what I do.





haviZsultan said:


> Laughable statement for someone who does not believe in Pakistan? If so why are you justifying the speech of Altaf? Partition being a mistake means actually wishing Pakistan wasn't formed. I don't believe with Altaf dancing in your head you can understand that.
> 
> I know how you guys start this entire race war in every debate by insulting another ethnic group. Others who came here never noticed but I noticed this insult to Chak Bamu caused him to defend his ancestors, heritage and sacrifices. It was a direct insult to his sacrifice. You start things, then blame others. It is an MQM tactic:



I have no answer to your continued abuse and personal attacks. As I said earlier, you cannot even imagine contesting my patriotism. And when I say that partition was a mistake, I stand by it as the statement has been proved through history. Only the biggest of idiots can still consider partition in that manner to be justified after half the country broke away from us. Partition should have been 1 piece Pakistan on this side and 1 piece India, unlike what happened where there existed 2 Pakistans on either side of India!!





haviZsultan said:


> In the last part you state the belief that Urdu-speakers are better, sacrificed more (which is a myth) something which is being covered as chauvinistic self-gratification in my paper on ethnic issues and hence is one of the issues from which a lot of other problems are born. Your mindset is the problem.



I have claimed that migrants sacrificed more than anyone who was already here and that many of those migrants actively participated in the freedom struggle. Those migrants left family, friends, culture, heritage, goods, land and belongings behind for Pakistan. And yes, they have more of a claim on Pakistan then those who got Pakistan sitting idle as the migrants earned freedom after struggle and sacrifice! Those who do not understand that are the real problem. But today, Pakistan belongs to everyone equally as it should be, and then be it even Urdu speaking migrants!





haviZsultan said:


> Lol. I go outside and bring thousands of dollars for hungry Pakistanis at home, in Pakistan I raise only 10000 rupees, there I raise thousands of dollars. You have no idea that since you people are too busy killing each other in the name of ethnicity and religion or supporting terrorist groups, corrupt parties or militant parties like MQM the overseas Pakistanis usually do not fall for these foolish things and think only of their country. 80% of the funding for our movement came from overseas Pakistanis while the majority of members were in Pakistan.



So you say.....but how do I confirm that unless you tell me who you are? Should I just believe every random tom, dick and harry who claim such things on the internet? For all I know you could be some Indian trying to stir up things. Tell me what you do and who you are so that I can confirm your claims.





haviZsultan said:


> I knew that you were in government which is the only reason you can so shamelessly defend your terrorist party. My relative in Canada was the same thing... he served in the government under the PPP which has developed a record of producing traitors and said Muhajirs were superior to everyone else. Was it a surprise he did not believe in Pakistan at all? You don't either do you since you call partition a mistake. Why don't you take your words back?



I am not in the Government! There is a big difference in being in the Government and being an officer of the federal Government! Learn the difference before posting comments that are stupid otherwise.

And for the last time, my love for my country cannot be paralleled! You and most other make statements, I actually do something to make a difference for my country. I will not repeat this again!





haviZsultan said:


> You just slapped my family on the face by the way telling them that their moving across the border sacrificing everything from home, property, jewellery and even links to brothers and sisters in our ancestral area was a mistake. All of us migrants deserve an apology for that.
> 
> On the one hand you state that I consider the migrants to be above others and then you post this, what am I to make of you except seriously consider whether you are insane!
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> haviZsultan said:
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> By the way why do all people in government think they are better than everyone else?
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> Do you have any idea of the process we have to go through during recruitment? Only those who have 'sifarish' get in easily. Others, like me, have to succeed in multiple challenges to complete the recruitment process. But I do not think I am better then 'everyone' else. There may be others better than me.
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> I bet. As a person in the federal government how many body guards do you keep when you walk around the city? Have you stepped behind the walls of your castle? There are no go areas for MQM supporters and no go areas for PPP and ANP supporters. Everyone knows this very well.
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> I am not entitled any guards so I venture outside alone and without protection.
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> I know there are no-go areas defined by all political parties; furthermore I know that there are now no-go areas defined by gali's and mohallas. Everybody has his/her own no-go area in Karachi today and it's pathetic and deplorable. If you lived in Karachi, you would have known that. Anyway, what have you done to fix that?
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> Are you for real? My grand-father left his entire house and support of his family to arrive in Pakistan and here he rode a cycle, his kids didn't have money for lunch or taking a bus-instead trekked to school every day for an hour to go back and forth. How dare you, an MQM terrorist sitting in federal government attack the sacrifices of my family. Karachi is my home and in case you didn't notice this is where I am now. You spent lots of years in Australia too which I must say is a base for CIA activity.  Have to wonder why you called partition a mistake. Someday when migrants will realize your real purpose-boy-is the MQM going to suffer.
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> I spent a few years in Australia so I much be in cahoots with CIA, what logic!!
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> You have not once spoken about one statistic I revealed. Can you explain those 3000 deaths and how the rise of the MQM was proportional to the rise of target killings and ethnic tensions?
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> But being in the federal government-probably there due to MQM. Which ministry are you in by the way? And how are you serving Pakistan? By keeping any other ethnicity out of "your" ministry.
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> 
> Which 3000 deaths? MQM began fighting PPP militants and other political factions that were suppressing and killing urdu speaking migrants, all sides suffered losses but a de facto status was achieved in an undeclared ceasefire. The military then, afraid of the rise of MQM, began a military operation against MQM and actually gave strength to the 2 leaders who were expelled from MQM because of their militant ways in MQM-H. MQM-H already had the baddest of the bad and with support of the Army they started taking out MQM supporters/activists etc. MQM-H was also supported by other LEA's in these activities while the senior most leadership had "Wanted: Dead or Alive" on their heads and most had head money too! You need more than that?
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> Personally now knowing you work for this corrupt government made up of terrorists, criminals, rapists and thieves I am not very surprised that you deny solid evidence that include names of the ones killed and their target killers. You are like a suicide bomber brought on tv by Saleem Safi. You will keep defending these terrorists no matter what they do. It is unfortunate that people like you sitting in federal government and looking down their noses at others including fellow muhajirs like a poor family from lucknow that struggled to get where it is today.
> 
> It is even more surprising that a person sitting in federal government justifies Altaf's speech which automatically reveals he wishes Pakistan wasn't formed at all and looks down on other ethnic groups. If you want to look at why our country is where it is take a mirror and look at yourself... but when you do I know you will only grin like an idiot taking pride over what you have done to this country because like any politician you think the country cannot survive without you despite being like a leech who leeches life from this great nation. You guys have made Pakistanis captive in their own land.
> 
> I talked to a Haqiqi guy and you know what he said. He hopes that an urdu-speaker one day shoots Altaf dead. I would like to say a lot of urdu speakers agree with him (both muhajir and urdu speaker however are incorrect or discriminatory terms though)
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> I think I have clarified my position above on all these things. About activities of LEA's and my personal role as an officer in the federal Government.
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> haviZsultan said:
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> The issue is lack of awareness and the ethnic identity obfuscating or being used against the National identity. That was a case in Altaf's speech as well. Karachites will eventually get rid of Altaf. Ask the police who have every bit of evidence... if they investigate they may even find someone like you in the "federal government" supporting the killers which is the reason for your keen-ness to defend them.
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> Is that a brain in there or has the worm eaten all of it?  Those were reports of cases, entire files I shared. But federal government... right...
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> AH was acquitted of all those allegations by none other the High Court of Sindh where the AG himself admitted that there were many ambiguities in the claims against AH! There were lies and propaganda and those usually are not followed by proof in third world countries like us where proof cannot be fabricated of such major accusations.
> Furthermore, you may have gathered stories from different sources where as I am a part of a federal intelligence agency. I am most confident that I have access to things that you cannot dream of.
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> haviZsultan said:
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> Lol. A patriot does not take part in the ethnic tensions... he rises above them, defends his brothers of other ethnicities and has a *National *mindset not an *ethnic *mindset. He doesn't try to keep all resources to himself, make Karachi his personal jageer and say no one else has a right to come here. Our past was once glorious. We hosted leaders like Hasrat Mohani and Muslim League leaders in our house in Lucknow... now we are in decline. There is no history of us after 1947 except the rubbish imposed on us by MQM. We are not muhajirs but Lucknowites, Biharis, Hyderabadis, Madrasis and others. That is the real culture anyway. If someone tells me I can unite with a Bihari whose urdu is almost not understandable for me then why should I look for an excuse to divide with a Punjabi or Sindhi and develop a separate identity?-its hypocrisy and an attempt to divide from my country.
> 
> I suggest you be a real son of a migrant and stop creating hate between communities and stop supporting terror chief. By far the average migrant today is in decline. I see it in my family, my relatives, everyone... and it is painful to see people who once so strongly believed in Pakistan now keen only to maintain this stupid terminology and their privileged position.
> 
> I am from Lucknow and the muhajir identity has by birth been imposed on me. I refuse to call myself one but that won't change the fact that I am the son of someone who crossed the border and came from Lucknow. You however may be an Indian agent sent by Modi?  Where are you from? Which state?
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> I was born in Karachi so I am a Sindhi. My parents were migrants.
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> And how proud they must be that their son is a traitor who called the partition a mistake and hence their movement to Pakistan the same.
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> Explained above.
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> haviZsultan said:
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> I have educated many kids and been the leader of a Nationalist front. You have no clue who I am. A person who divides his people, his nation by ethnicity or religion can never be a hero or an example. The only thing you are an example of is a person whose brain has stopped working due to the Altaf worm crawling within it.
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> That is our history... not a terrorist like yours. If you remember correctly you and your people were shooting people in the streets since APMSO days. Our city has now become the murder capital of the world as MQM has risen. If that is hard, honest work then I believe I want no part in it.
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> The official language initially of the mughals was Persian and was spoken in the courts and throughout by royalty and nobles. That ensured its neutrality as none of the subjects spoke it. But I agree with this point and have stated it regularly.
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> However Urdu would have remained a neutral language only if urdu-speakers themselves had merged with local communities and therefore it could be claimed by no one that Urdu was favorable to a select group. So in a way you are claiming that by refusing to call ourselves Sindhis, Pashtuns and Punjabis or merging we caused the ethnic problems in the country. Thanks for admitting. But at least I plan to set things right by merging as a Pashtun and defending other ethnic groups from MQM terrorists like you and refuting your claims of being victims.
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> Punjabis whole-heartedly supported urdu during and after... but that is a separate debate. But in any case with urdu-speakers becoming a separate ethnic group this purpose became an obscure one. So we basically stepped on Jinnah's grave... that wouldn't matter to you since Altaf burned the flag and called partition a blunder which indirectly meant both that Jinnah was a fool and Pakistan's formation a mistake.
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> This guy remind anyone of @Sher Malang. This comment:
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> Are you Sher Malang's brother?
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> It was nothing personal, I compared you to a relative who really got me angry. What is personal is calling partition a blunder and being surrounded by those thick walls of your house and burly bodyguards in a posh defense home while not knowing how an average urdu speaker on the street will react to this when he sees it.
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> There is a woman called Sana. Check her case out. Entire family murdered in Hyderabad, India. We moved members of her family. This is what happens to our people in India... there is nothing more insulting to those of us who lost family members there than a callous person like you calling partition a mistake. I seek an apology.
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> Then it would be wise to try and stop anyone like Muhajirs from saying it. They have always said things like this or worse.
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> I feel that is a childish way to look at things... there is no guarantee a Sindhi will always be a farmer. Also Muhajirs are job and education oriented. Again perpetuating the same thing-that my family and others like it are and have a right to be at the top while the rest suffer. I would rather reduce the suffering of the Sindhi or Pashtun than be a part of this.
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> No Afghans (nation) mentioned in the part of the post you quoted.
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> I cannot explain things again and again.
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> Stop blaming others. The population of Sindh is 63% Sindhi 18% urdu speaking and other races make up the rest. Now a bigot like you wants a so-called Muhajir on every top position? What does it matter? Is a Sindhi not a Pakistani? I am very proud of them. I hope each and every chief minister is a sindhi and no one ever comes from my migrant communities. They want one phool, I will give them a dozen. That is how u build love. If they ask for a phool when you have 20 and you make it a lungi affair it creates division which MQM excels at.
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> I say that the most capable person should get the position and not some illiterate who gets the job just because his ethnicity has more quota. Only then can our country truly progress, we cannot afford such compromises anymore and all Government departments are proof of what I say.
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> Realities again will prove you a fool working to divide Pakistan by fomenting ethnic tensions. Despite the majority being Sindhi 60% of governors for Sindh were urdu-speakers and Ishrat Ul Ibad is perhaps the longest serving governor in the history of Pakistan and Sindh. Stop belittling fellow Pakistanis sacrifice to perpetuate the myth that you are the only one who sacrificed.
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> Do you even know what a Governor can do in Pakistan? Governor is just a representative of the president for provinces; he holds no power unless Governor's rule is imposed. Chief Minister holds the real power in the province and that seat has never been occupied by any Urdu speaking!
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> We all know in your eyes the sacrifice doesn't count since you call partition a blunder meaning it was a mistake for us to migrate. Don't you dare talk about sacrifice about which you don't give a damn.
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> When we speak of oppression we are speaking of the quota system that brings in an undeserving person to an important post just because his community votes for the powers that continue to keep them in these conditions. And the more these undeserving people get these jobs, the more their hold grows stronger and the country weaker. There have been instances where jobs have been advertised which clearly stated that people with domicile from Karachi should not apply!!!/QUOTE]
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> You are speaking about nothing. Whatever MQM barks-woof woof! You do the same without thinking that this is the first step to cutting out the land, especially when one instead of calling for Altaf sahib to be hanged when he makes the speech, defends him.
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> By the way which party has backed you. You work for the federal government. Do you hold a position of importance? Did MQM help in getting you where you are or is it just a normal lower level staff job?
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> Have you seen the police head office on I.I Chundrigar road? You can come visit me anytime (office hours) and witness whether I hold a position of importance or not. And I earned this job on merit.
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> My job is not to defend Bhutto. It is to tell you that you sir, are a bigot!
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> Good job. Keep it up. But I wasn't counseling you to defend Bhutto, I was merely trying to put forth the advise so that you may understand how the fabric of this society changed with Bhutto's rule.
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> I never talked either against the qouta system not for it. You being a highly educated person who believes everyone else should be cleaning your posts failed to read the post clearly. It was for Radio Pakistan that I posted statistics and radio Pakistan is run by the government. There is no qouta for the directors. Altaf is dancing like a demon in your brain which makes it impossible for you to use it.
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> Fortunately, as I am a Government officer, I am aware that the quota applies to all positions alike so quota would have been applicable on Directors positions as well. You are either incompetent or just a liar.
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> Uski speech defend karna band kar warna ham sab tujhey ghaddar bolengey.
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> I wasn't technically defending his 'speech'. I just called a spade, a spade.
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> I read not only that post but the post before it in which you provoked him. You MQM supporters somehow happen to provoke or take part in about 90% of the ethnic abuse and insults that fly here on PDF. Am I surprised?
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> This is not a Taliban propaganda video... step out of the "victim syndrome" and this vehement "denial" aimed at defending life hero Altaf Hussain. He is not God as is taught to MQM workers and confirmed by Saulat Mirza in his confession tape. He is a terror chief with how many, 3576 cases filed against him ranging from bombings, firebombings, terrorism, murders, torture, rape, land grabbing, bori bund lashein and other unspeakable brutality. Man there is a video of Ajmal Pahari's confession!
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> As I said there was also a case registered against AH for stealing a police constables cap!! If that is not height of ridiculous allegations, I don't know what is.
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> As for Ajmal Pahari's confession, did you know that confessions under duress are not applicable in any court of law? Do you know why that is? Did you know that CIA training manual states that every human has a breaking point? What's yours? I can guarantee that you would be begging to make any statement if just summoned to the police station and taken to the khanadari kamra!! Do you realize how much MQM activists and even suspected activists were tortured? Some could never recover from the torture that's how much! And there goes your confession! And there was only 1 way to stop the pain, to confess what the LEAs want them to confess.
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> Lol. By this brilliant logic then with 3000+ cases against him before the NRO there would be thousands motivated to shoot Altaf Hussain which is why he hides in London. By the way that article was about those who disappeared. I have this statistic. But there are constables as well. That operation was the best thing ever done in Karachi and violence dropped for a long period.
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> Talk about objectivity with a bigot.
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> Unless the MQM shoots me like they shot the Bihari Qaumi Movement president who caused grievous losses to you guys, I and many other true Karachites like Oscar and dozens of others here will stand against this terrorist party. You ignored every piece of evidence in that post. Clearly if Altaf will try to merge with India you will support him. This is how Bangladesh was formed.
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> Good way to deny uncomfortable realities... deflecting the blame on to X and Y, claiming yourself the victim oppressed by the others, self gratification that you did more... all covered in my report. Only a true hero of Pakistan can look within and identify his faults. Pakistan is for all of us and this land means more to me than anything else.
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> All MQM supporters have no doubts that there are many who would want to kill AH and that is why his supporters beg him not to return. You state that the operation was the best thing that happened to Karachi and I say that you would have sung a different tune had your family endured that period where the LEA & Military forces exercised shoot at sight powers. Where the kidnapped were returned on ransom and killed if ransom could not be secured by the LEA's. *The 15k dead is no joke to any Urdu speaking and this is where I conclude that you are not a migrant *
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## haviZsultan

Mav3rick said:


> Before I begin the post I would like to explicitly state that I am neither a member of APMSO/MQM neither am I an outright diehard fan/supporter. My defense of certain things pertaining to MQM is purely driven by a desire to show you all the other side of the picture. Only when you truly have both sides of the story, can you actually make up your mind....that is if you are not biased and brainwashed already.



Frankly this seems like a waste of time. Guys in federal agencies always have their noses in heavenly clouds while trying to walk in the world of men making every effort to storm on us little pathetic beings. They are arrogant, stubborn and hard-headed. 

By the way there is a lot of sifarish that goes around. How did you end up there? You probably know some MQM people, did they pull strings?



> *I am an open critic of MQM*, on issues that should be criticized and I support things that should be supported, much like I am with all other political parties and even the Military. Anyway, here we go:



Those who say they are critics of the MQM never seem to criticize a thing about them and are the most funny people, in fact happen to be their diehard supporters. Did you see the Ajmal Pahari video confession? I could post it... but when you ignored proper cases I provided then I believe there is no power that can make you look critically or objectively at this situation.



> Your posts are full of personal attacks. It's most likely because you do not have proof of any wrong doing of MQM but have been brain washed with media propaganda.



 Do note people will not take too kindly when their parents sacrifice to cross the border will be called a mistake, Pakistan's formation a mistake and Jinnah's ideology one as well. Don't say it in Karachi or you may not be able to bear the consequences. 



> 2 things I would like to speak of here, *first is that the Talibaan are freedom fighters who are fighting for their country and as instructed by their religion.*



You have launched another bomb. Man what the hell are you doing in such an important position? This is why we are losing both on the ethnic front and on the religious front. Wolves dress up like sheep and join our agencies. This is a huge revelation. I don't think I can ever respect these so-called agencies. Didn't they know who they were hiring?

You know this talk has depressed me beyond everything. 



> If tomorrow, God forbid, Pakistan is attacked then all patriots will take up arms and will defend the country.....that would make us terrorists to the invaders, however we will be patriots to our country and countrymen.
> 
> And please do not confuse Talibaan with TTP terrorists.



We do not call those who call partition a blunder patriots. Sorry. And if we do take up arms to the invaders in this hypothetical situation we will never murder civilians... in your case inspired by MQM and Taliban you will be bombing every poor person you find in the name of your war for urdu speakers or jihad or whatever you call it. 

I believe you have not received a marriage proposal from @Zarvan yet who will fall in love upon witnessing your posts. Look @Secur Zarvan has a twin brother here. 2 in 1 package of ethno-fascism and terrorist-sympathizer all in one which comes with unlimited warranty. You can confront him, smack him but nothing will come out of it in the end. 



> Secondly, it is quite frustrating for me when people give me police reports despite the fact that police is the most corrupt and politically driven force in the entire country. Today, no citizen trusts the police department; we all know how infected they are with corruption, political victimization, dacoity, street crimes, abuse of power etc. Actually, a person enters the police force only for the haraam ki kamai in it. How many honest police officers are there in the police force is anybody's guess! This is a force that will register an FIR against any xyz on any number of charges if some abc paid them (or forced them if in power)! I know this intimately because of what I do.



The corruption of the police not withstanding... this talk has worried me about the parhey likhey jahils working for our "federal government"... 

By the way you are in a police office, most likely under them if you work for either the CID, Special Branch or Investigation branch. What are you complaining about. They are part of the police and work in conjunction with all other departments. I have no knowledge any other "federal agency" being there. 



> I have no answer to your continued abuse and personal attacks. As I said earlier, you cannot even imagine contesting my patriotism. And *when I say that partition was a mistake, I stand by it as the statement has been proved through history.* Only the biggest of idiots can still consider partition in that manner to be justified after half the country broke away from us. Partition should have been 1 piece Pakistan on this side and 1 piece India, unlike what happened where there existed 2 Pakistans on either side of India!!



It would be best for your own health that you do not bring this up if you do not wish me to lose my temper, there is no patriotism in someone suggesting Pakistan's existence is a mistake. If it was turkey you would be hanged. I explained that Urdu-speakers chauvinism was one of the reasons for the fall of Bangladesh. It was our family's lack of respect for other cultures that led to it. Even now we say Urdu should be promoted, never Pashto, Sindhi or any other language should be promoted. What about them-they are our cultures too, make Pakistan rich too.

When you had a part to play and could have stopped what happened in 71 then you have no right to open your mouth in this matter. You dare to blame our Pakistan's formation for your incompetence?



> I have claimed that migrants sacrificed more than anyone who was already here and that many of those migrants actively participated in the freedom struggle. Those migrants left family, friends, culture, heritage, goods, land and belongings behind for Pakistan. And yes, they have more of a claim on Pakistan then those who got Pakistan sitting idle as the migrants earned freedom after struggle and sacrifice! Those who do not understand that are the real problem. But today, Pakistan belongs to everyone equally as it should be, and then be it even Urdu speaking migrants!



You are like a stuck clock its needles cursed to stay where they are in a cruel monotony. No force can come and move you from your original stand just as none can clean the grime, ***** and feculence that mires your mind like a mucky viscous pool. I explained to you this assessment is very wrong and is not something we should teach our kids but I believe your parents might have had links to terrorist groups either MQM, Taliban or perhaps even foreign intelligence due to which you have been taught this. Self-gratification or making claims that our ethnic group did more or sacrificed more than the others and others did nothing is the very beginning of the problem. 

Even if true it should never be said. I gave you examples of personalities too. But there is nothing that can be done for you. 



> So you say.....but how do I confirm that unless you tell me who you are? Should I just believe every random tom, dick and harry who claim such things on the internet? For all I know you could be some Indian trying to stir up things. Tell me what you do and who you are so that I can confirm your claims.



There will be a gunman standing on my doorstep the moment I tell you who I am. Aren't you tired of torturing innocent people and bori band lashein?

An Indian would claim the partition was a mistake. A Pakistani would counter him and remind him that millions more of us would be dead if we were in one nation.Why is an MQM thug so interested in who I am? The only reason possibly could be that you are interested in murder of every other fellow who does not support the MQM.



> I am not in the Government! There is a big difference in being in the Government and being an officer of the federal Government! Learn the difference before posting comments that are stupid otherwise.



You are in intelligence. So now chief? When is the next order coming from Altaf. What information do you pass off to him?



> And for the last time, my love for my country cannot be paralleled! You and most other make statements, I actually do something to make a difference for my country. I will not repeat this again!



I am ex-lord of PNA. Strong support base. Right Wing Nationalist shifted to liberal nationalism. This statement is very similar to the abuse you inflicted on Chak Bamu-here u attack my loyalty to nation despite my strong statements in support of Pakistan, there you attacked a fellow Pakistanis background proving unfit for any role in a federal agency whatsoever. 

I wonder why you guys think you have done more for the country than anyone else which is exactly what leads to idiots coming to power who believe they know everything. I don't boast about what I do and did. 



> On the one hand you state that I consider the migrants to be above others and then you post this, what am I to make of you except seriously consider whether you are insane!



It is better than being known as a traitor. You do not believe in Pakistan, you think the Taliban are good people. And we wonder how the country is being run. I don't understand when you do not admit anything can ever be wrong with MQM how you can deal with their criminals and murderers? You are to unobjective and primitive in thought. Too attached to a political party to be a good agent or cop. 

Btw CID has rules since the rise in terrorism not to disclose identity. This sounds like wet farts to me. 



> Do you have any idea of the process we have to go through during recruitment? Only those who have 'sifarish' get in easily. Others, like me, have to succeed in multiple challenges to complete the recruitment process. But I do not think I am better then 'everyone' else. There may be others better than me.



I am supposed to believe you came there without sifarish? You don't believe in Pakistan, you support the taliban. Now I don't see any reason you should be in such a sensitive place if indeed you are not a liar with his pants on fire. What got you there?



> I am not entitled any guards so I venture outside alone and without protection.



Better that way. You can shoot anyone you want, no questions asked and definitely no witnesses. Mission accomplished James bond style, or maybe Kalu style (lollywood political gangster movie) in your case.



> I know there are no-go areas defined by all political parties; furthermore I know that there are now no-go areas defined by gali's and mohallas. Everybody has his/her own no-go area in Karachi today and it's pathetic and deplorable. If you lived in Karachi, you would have known that. Anyway, what have you done to fix that?



I LIVE IN KARACHI. I am here now. I am a journalist-currently sick. I have done all I could to fix every issue in Pakistan and that is why I challenge bigots like you. One thing I have done is build goodwill between the various groups instead of attacking every other ethnic group or demanding extra rights. Whatever is given to me I will accept in my nationalism. I do not err or cry, I hurt over how things turned out and my sacrifice may never be recognized but in Nationalism you ask nothing in return.



> I spent a few years in Australia so I much be in cahoots with CIA, what logic!!



By the way Australia never bothered to check your background. Support for terrorism-both ethnic and religious including support for Taliban? While I was in Canada I wondered what these guys problem was with a bunch of secularist students for godsake. Why us Nationalists? It was because we were developing a political identity and that scared them out of their pants, made them piss right in those dirty pyjamas gifted by US of A. 

If these countries spent half as much time dealing with people like you there wouldn't be a problem. But then I can see why Australia left you alone despite being a Taliban supporter. It hasn't got anything to do with them... as long as you guys go home and kill innocent Pakistanis in abundance-nothing to do with Australia, US or Canada. You can see the same with their foreign policy and how Allah Nazar is sitting outside as well at total ease. As long as the murderers attack Pakistanis everything is perfectly fine. No wonder a lot of people cheer when their soldiers die. 

I even noticed one such guy. Was shocked. Never heard those useless canucks troubling him. Is the australian citizenship for quick escape in case the **** hits the fan for your political party?



> Which 3000 deaths? MQM began fighting PPP militants and other political factions that were suppressing and killing urdu speaking migrants, all sides suffered losses but a de facto status was achieved in an undeclared ceasefire. The military then, afraid of the rise of MQM, began a military operation against MQM and actually gave strength to the 2 leaders who were expelled from MQM because of their militant ways in MQM-H. MQM-H already had the baddest of the bad and with support of the Army they started taking out MQM supporters/activists etc. MQM-H was also supported by other LEA's in these activities while the senior most leadership had "Wanted: Dead or Alive" on their heads and most had head money too! You need more than that?



Find a good, solid wall. Now paint all of it with rhino glue or construction adhesive glue. Stick your bum to this wall. Name the wall MQM. You will finally realize what your problem actually is. Even then you may not.

My job is not to defend those factions. All of them took part in killings. And don't blame the military for doing its job. We Karachites want the army to arrive and finish these MQM and other terrorists once and for all. 



> I think I have clarified my position above on all these things. About activities of LEA's and my personal role as an officer in the federal Government.



What is your role in providing guns to MQM?



> AH was acquitted of all those allegations by none other the High Court of Sindh where the AG himself admitted that there were many ambiguities in the claims against AH! There were lies and propaganda and those usually are not followed by proof in third world countries like us where proof cannot be fabricated of such major accusations.



Only a fool can deny that NOT ONE of the 3576 criminal cases against Altaf Hussain and MQM are true. Not one? And you say you are impartial. It is a sad state of the Sindh police. Someone says hire this guy or the recruiter is as bigoted as you you will be hired immediately.



> Furthermore, you may have gathered stories from different sources where as I am a part of a federal intelligence agency. I am most confident that *I have access to things that you cannot dream of.*



Now you are a part of a federal intelligence agency... this is a lot of fun. Which one? The office you told me about there is CID which is the only good one. It is actually under the Sindh police whichi itself is under the ministry of interior. Lol. You are criticizing the same police you work for later on? 

You have said everything now why don't you tell us each and every thing? Sindh police comes under the ministry of interior but basically it is run almost completely by the Provincial and Local governments with influences from smaller political parties. IGP Sindh is Fayaz Ahmed Leghari who has relatives all over the Sindh government. A Leghari was also involved in ensuring the release of Zardari. 

Also another thing. I am a journalist and that itself involves very heavy research so in other words am a researcher too. I have every statistic from every related department. You cannot beat me in a debate. Your job is to investigate if what you say is true. My job to find issues, write articles on them and work to solve them. 



> I was born in Karachi so I am a Sindhi. My parents were migrants.



Here you say this... then you say this:



> Do you even know what a Governor can do in Pakistan? Governor is just a representative of the president for provinces; he holds no power unless Governor's rule is imposed. Chief Minister holds the real power in the province and that seat has never been occupied by any Urdu speaking!



Now you are a Sindhi-why is this affecting you? We were supposed to merge according to what Quaid E Azam actually said... so no issue if a Sindhi getting the role

I already gave you the population statistics. They make up more than 60%+ of the population of the province. Its very natural. Personally I believe, yeah no harm in having one Urdu-speaker but perhaps you don't know the chief minister is elected by the provincial assembly of Sindh which is dominated by PPP which your MQM is in an alliance with. If it was such an issue why didn't you quit? By the way Ishratul Ibad Khan is the longest serving governor in the history of Sindh. Average time for a governor is 1-2 years. Serving from 2002. Strange no? 

I am seriously worried about your mentality. No wonder terrorists go free in this city. I thought usually an ethnic bigot was different from a religious one-you are a 2 in 1 package mistakenly imported from India. Why don't you shoot your parents who moved there. After all if partition was a mistake it was their mistake too. Why did they move? Being an MQM gun-slinger I believe this no major issue for you. 



> I say that the most capable person should get the position and *not some illiterate who gets the job just because his ethnicity has more quota.* Only then can our country truly progress, we cannot afford such compromises anymore and all Government departments are proof of what I say.



Lol. The qouta isn't implemented actually. You will notice this in the figures for people serving in Bangal government in 70's before it broke up. The population of Bengalis working for the federal government was lower than their real population percentage in the province.

Another thing is there is a 2% qouta for disabled people in government jobs. Lol. Try and find one person who meets the qouta. Who are you trying to fool, Chaundhry sahab of Australia? We know the rot. Chaudhry Aslam of anti-extremist cell of CID even hangs around with many girls and is drunk half the time. We know your life-style and how you look down on ordinary citizens. 



> Have you seen the police head office on I.I Chundrigar road? You can come visit me anytime (office hours) and witness whether I hold a position of importance or not. And I earned this job on merit.



Looks like you have made all plans to put me in jail and torture me. You don't need American imput for that... congratulations at least you make some decisions on your own MashaAllah being the Taliban/MQM supporter you are, Allah will surely reward you for your stupidity. Perhaps those that were involved the release of a number of TTP militants were from there too?

Stop sitting there with your legs on the table and ordering Sindhis and Pashtuns around. Personally I believe you are a wannabe CID guy. 



> Good job. Keep it up. But I wasn't counseling you to defend Bhutto, I was merely trying to put forth the advise so that you may understand how the fabric of this society changed with Bhutto's rule.



Bhutto's mistakes and stupid allegations left and right are not the topic of this debate. It is the comparison of terrorist Altaf with Quaid E Azam which would set any patriots hair on fire. 



> Fortunately, as I am a Government officer, I am aware that the quota applies to all positions alike so quota would have been applicable on Directors positions as well. You are either incompetent or just a liar.



Lol. Did your MQM boss tell you that? I checked. No qouta whatsoever has been applied for jobs in radio Pakistan. Stop posting rubbish. Please. You made me waste 45 minutes today. Also no Baloch at all for radio Pakistan. There is no qouta system for directors. They are brought forth on merit and capability alone.

I have a question, no ridicule, no mocking you despite being a terrorist. Lets suppose you aren't trying to copy Akshay Kumar and are indeed in a federal agency. You aren't disengaged from race so lets say there is an MQM terrorist who murders 10-20 people. He is arrested. Are you going to do your job without prejudice? You think Taliban are freedom fighters, are you going to arrest them or release them in dead of night just like in the reports I have been receiving? Serious question.



> I wasn't technically defending his 'speech'. I just called a spade, a spade.



Is it the same thing if someone else (lets say me-hypothetically) says he is calling an idiot an idiot? 



> As I said there was also a case registered against AH for stealing a police constable&#8217;s cap!! If that is not height of ridiculous allegations, I don't know what is.



I have never come across such a ridiculous case. But your knowledge on the matter is amazing-being the MQM's mole in the federal agencies, probably in spare time siphoning off classified information off to India. 



> As for Ajmal Pahari's confession, did you know that confessions under duress are not applicable in any court of law? Do you know why that is? Did you know that CIA training manual states that every human has a breaking point? What's yours?



Exactly. In that video he looked like he was about to burst out crying like a child, he was wounded and tortured brutally. By the way my source says he has been freed. Did you play a hand in that?



> I can guarantee that you would be begging to make any statement if just summoned to the police station and taken to the khanadari kamra!! Do you realize how much MQM activists and even suspected activists were tortured? Some could never recover from the torture that's how much! And there goes your confession! And there was only 1 way to stop the pain, to &#8216;confess&#8217; what the LEA&#8217;s want them to confess.



Stop warning everyone and trying to scare them being in a federal agency and all. We all know that police uses torture as a means of extracting confessions and solving cases. Usually 90% are right, they have no other means-thats at least what the police officers told me though it doesn't make it right. Also you are first under the Sindh police which is itself under the Federal government. 



> All MQM supporters have no doubts that there are many who would want to kill AH and that is why his supporters beg him not to return. You state that the operation was the best thing that happened to Karachi and I say that you would have sung a different tune had your family endured that period where the LEA & Military forces exercised shoot at sight powers. Where the kidnapped were returned on ransom and killed if ransom could not be secured by the LEA's. *The 15k dead is no joke to any Urdu speaking and this is where I conclude that you are not a migrant *



The 15K murdered have a larger population of Sindhis than urdu-speakers... 

The Pashtuns chauvinists say i am not Pashtun, you and your gangsters say I am not a Muhajir. Perhaps I am not, I am a Pakistani Nationalist. What the hell are you? Clear proof that there are douches in federal agencies.


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## Dubious

darkinsky said:


> quaid e azam lived in britain for a long time, got educated, practiced there i guess, had british life style, he must have british citizen ship



Back then Pakistan was not an independent nation! EVERYONE in living in BRITISH colonies had similar rights! They could easily waltz in and out of Britain anytime they wanted! And since Britain at that time ACTUALLY governed INDIA AND PAKISTAN back then, obviously their passport would be British! 

HOWEVER, now PAKISTAN is an independent country not under the British empire...FURTHERMORE, For a Pakistani passpot holder, to get BRITISH CITIZENSHIP, you have to APPLY FOR IT! you do not get it BY CHANCE! MOREOVER, you HAVE TO pledge allegence to the BRITISH CROWN AND QUEEN! 

Frankly speaking ANYONE with DUAL nationality and assets overseas should not hold ANY office in Pakistan because these people SERIOUSLY benefit from the other nation and JUICE Pakistan!!

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## haviZsultan

Talon said:


> Back then Pakistan was not an independent nation! EVERYONE in living in BRITISH colonies had similar rights! They could easily waltz in and out of Britain anytime they wanted! And since Britain at that time ACTUALLY governed INDIA AND PAKISTAN back then, obviously their passport would be British!
> 
> HOWEVER, now PAKISTAN is an independent country not under the British empire...FURTHERMORE, For a Pakistani passpot holder, to get BRITISH CITIZENSHIP, you have to APPLY FOR IT! you do not get it BY CHANCE! MOREOVER, you HAVE TO pledge allegence to the BRITISH CROWN AND QUEEN!
> 
> Frankly speaking ANYONE with DUAL nationality and assets overseas should not hold ANY office in Pakistan because these people SERIOUSLY benefit from the other nation and JUICE Pakistan!!



I agree. This is not such a major issue. Voting rights for overseas Pakistanis or dual citizenship holders is a far different thing from someone in office being a dual nationality holder. It is not a big issue. We nationalists have always claimed that no office-holder can and should have any foreign passport. If a person wishes to serve the country it is his duty to sacrifice that passport.

Also giving up the passport and its benefits is a statement of loyalty to Nation and people. It is a very important if token gesture that makes a simple statement that* the country comes before personal interest or loyalty to another state.*

My sister too wants me to get Canadian citizenship, probably filed my papers and got my signatures too on some excuse or another but my life is Pakistan. I am not in government but will still reject it. I was a leader of a Nationalist movement. If I surrender it does not give a good image to my followers or past followers as now I have lost all the power and influence I had. 

A lot of my life I have basically lived like Canadians... in the old days I used to walk in the streets of Karachi, mohawk hair, chain hanging from neck and another one from a wallet at times with friends both male or female... people would be like what kind of character is this kid.  This is a simple decision. Loyalty to Pakistan or loyalty to self. One of the best ways to determine if the person is the right one for the job. 

Also I have to ask @Mav3rick didn't you say you had dual citizenship of Australia? By law it is not allowed to serve anywhere in the police or in any federal agency most particularly some agency that has to deal with sensitive intelligence matters concerning foreign (possibly) hostile nations for someone who has dual citizenship. I can confirm this tomorrow, maybe rules have changed or you work for a branch or cell that is different. Can you tell me your name and your officer in charge? You have made this fact known so you are probably part of "overt" operations teams rather than covert though through a contact I know CID bigwigs has told every employee on account of terrorism situation to hide his identity and not be too open about it. Those guys have no uniform either. 

Maverick I believe you may be a liar and I suspect your intentions on this website. Even @darkinsky has honor. He refused to defend the partition speech despite all his major flaws. You are different. Are you an Indian national? Liars get caught eventually. Many people here have been caught with dual accounts trying to bash Pakistan or accentuate ethnic/religious conflict.


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## Chak Bamu

Mav3rick said:


> [...]Punjabis (who supported Punjabi) and so on.



Wrong sir. Very wrong. You have no idea. Punjabis literally gave up their language for Urdu. This is a well-known fact. Only someone who is totally ignorant of post-partition Punjabi ethos can say this. Most unfortunate.

LO WOH BHI KEHTAY HAIN BE-NANG-O-NAAAM HAI
YEH JANTA TO KABHI GHAR KO NAH LUTATA MAIN.

In your replies you assert that you do not know where you have insulted any ethnicity. I can tell you for sure that you have done it. Does not matter much in grand scheme of things. But it does hurt nonetheless.

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## haviZsultan

Chak Bamu said:


> Wrong sir. Very wrong. You have no idea. Punjabis literally gave up their language for Urdu. This is a well-known fact. Only someone who is totally ignorant of post-partition Punjabi ethos can say this. Most unfortunate.
> 
> LO WOH BHI KEHTAY HAIN BE-NANG-O-NAAAM HAI
> YEH JANTA TO KABHI GHAR KO NAH LUTATA MAIN.
> 
> In your replies you assert that you do not know where you have insulted any ethnicity. I can tell you for sure that you have done it. Does not matter much in grand scheme of things. But it does hurt nonetheless.



Do not worry Chak Bamu. I know MQM let you down but why we were expecting anything of them-just because they said they are a middle-class party? Well they acted like the most jahil persons you ever meet and it was right from the start not something that changed later on. Its a dead party. People in their area of influence are rising up against it. when the Bihari Qaumi Movement president was killed and the people found out it was by MQM they were swearing for Altaf's blood. Do note why he had to kill *Bihari *Quami Movement president. Because these people could basically annihilate the MQM completely by wooing its votebank and when Ajmal Pahari was given the order his masters acknowledged this. They were doing one of the things I told you about in my earlier post. Reasserting their original ethnic identity which was Bihari... not some fake "Mahajir" identity which means a pilgrim. He is really going mad. I suspect @Mav3rick is a party worker which is why he is asking for my personal information. According to their manifesto and brainwashing Altaf is taught to be a God, and there is a very famous nara for them which goes like "Jo Qaid ka ghaddar hai, woh maut ka haqdar hai"... and obviously Quaid here is not Quaid E Azam.I am a journalist, I have seen every report, pictures of dead bodies, everything. 

There will be a day that a Punjabi will not even have to defend himself from such abuse. Other ethnic groups will rise up and defend him. Eventually he or anyone else won't even feel the need to defend the identity. We all have a role to play in this but these terrorists sitting in "federal agencies" if he speaks the truth are the primary cause of the divisions we see today. Furthermore he is also a Taliban supporter. Can you believe that, in a federal agency?

You have told me about your loyalty to Urdu... this article further corroborates how huge a sacrifice Punjabis have made for Pakistan and for Urdu. Giving up language is not easy and is actually something that shouldn't happen. We should make efforts to protect these languages but our family may never talk about these things.:



> There has been a growing realisation in the recent times that language is a significant political tool which is used by dominant groups to take control of marginalised groups. At the same time, language is a useful tool to put up resistance against hegemony. That is why post-colonial literature and feminist movements give central importance to language as they believe that language is an important constituent of social reality that may play a crucial role in titling the scale of power. Language is also viewed as a strong identity marker, both at an individual and societal level.The Punjabi language has always been a victim of social, political and economic circumstances even before the partition of United India. In India, because of Mughal kings, whose mother tongue was Persian, Persian became the language of power and was used in courts. Urdu was very close to Persian in terms of vocabulary and structure and was mutually intelligible with Hindi. It also had an affinity with the Punjabi language at a semantic level. These multiple associations of Urdu made it popular in certain parts of India in general and in Muslim communities in particular.The British as a part of their policy got rid of Persian language in Sindh by replacing Persian with Sindhi but surprisingly, in Punjab, Persian was not replaced by Punjabi. Instead, it was Urdu that took the place of Persian. One reason that was given by the British was that Urdu was a refined form of Punjabi. It is a sad fact that Punjabi was never viewed by the British decision makers as an independent language; rather it was looked down upon as a dialect or patois with relatively lower social standard. Why was Punjabi viewed as a dialect and not as a language? Does Punjabi have no literature? On the contrary, Punjabi has a rich tradition of literature both in poetry and prose. But languages, in contemporary times, are not evaluated on their linguistic merits or demerits. Rather they are assessed primarily on social, political, and economic grounds. The attitude towards Punjabi was essentially based on social criteria.Another milestone in the history of the Punjabi language was the Pakistan movement where three languages Hindi, Urdu, and Punjabi were used as identity markers for the three major population groups of India, i.e. Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs. In this simplistic divide of languages (which was largely political in nature), Punjabi was the biggest casualty. A large number of Muslims whose mother tongue was Punjabi deserted it on political grounds as Punjabi was viewed as the language of Sikhs.After independence in 1947, the question of national language was raised and Urdu, which was a minority language, was given the status of national language. The two overwhelmingly majority languages i.e., Bengali, and Punjabi were totally ignored. There was a powerful protest from Bengali people but there was no voice heard in favour of Punjabi by the Punjabi population. One important reason for this was that Punjab had a large share in the army and was close to power centres. Having a good share in army and bureaucracy, the Punjabi elite wanted to be a part of the mainstream powerful groups and in the process deserted their own language, Punjabi. It is surprising that Sindhi is taught in schools as a subject. Similarly Pashto is taught as a subject in some schools in KP. But Punjabi has never been a part of school education in Pakistan. Why is it so? Is there something inherently wrong with Punjabi? It&#8217;s the social attitude of people that have associated Punjabi with informal and insignificant linguistic functions in life. The language desertion phenomenon is so visible in Punjabi urban families where parents speak with their children in Urdu which is considered to be a prestigious language. Another weakening factor for Punjabi is its low pragmatic value in terms of getting jobs on market. This factor is strengthened as Punjabi does not get any support from educational institutions.It is feared that a large number of families from Punjab would lose Punjabi language in a couple of generations. There are a number of researches available about the significant role of mother tongue in early education. If we want to reclaim Punjabi language, the first step is to provide it educational backing by teaching Punjabi as a subject in schools in Punjab. Also, there is a need of official patronage at least at the provincial level for the promotion of language. It is important to note that the Constitution of Pakistan, Article 251, clearly states about the potential measures of teaching and promotion of a provincial language, &#8220;Without prejudice to the status of the national language, a provincial assembly may by law prescribe measures for the teaching, promotion and use of language in addition to the national language.&#8221; The Khyber Pakhtunkhwa assembly has passed a bill declaring five local languages as educational languages. This is a welcome initiative. Can Punjab Assembly pass some bill for the teaching and promotion of Punjabi in the province? The writer is Professor & Director of Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences at Lahore School of Economics and author of Rethinking Education in Pakistan. He may be contacted at shahidksiddiqui@yahoo.com



Chak Bamu, tension nahi lenay ka. These guys will die out soon and in their place will come a new breed of Nationalists. I will protect every one of my Sindhi, Baloch or Punjabi brothers. This is about my countries unity.


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## Zarvan

haviZsultan said:


> Frankly this seems like a waste of time. Guys in federal agencies always have their noses in heavenly clouds while trying to walk in the world of men making every effort to storm on us little pathetic beings. They are arrogant, stubborn and hard-headed.
> 
> By the way there is a lot of sifarish that goes around. How did you end up there? You probably know some MQM people, did they pull strings?
> 
> 
> 
> Those who say they are critics of the MQM never seem to criticize a thing about them and are the most funny people, in fact happen to be their diehard supporters. Did you see the Ajmal Pahari video confession? I could post it... but when you ignored proper cases I provided then I believe there is no power that can make you look critically or objectively at this situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Do note people will not take too kindly when their parents sacrifice to cross the border will be called a mistake, Pakistan's formation a mistake and Jinnah's ideology one as well. Don't say it in Karachi or you may not be able to bear the consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> You have launched another bomb. Man what the hell are you doing in such an important position? This is why we are losing both on the ethnic front and on the religious front. Wolves dress up like sheep and join our agencies. This is a huge revelation. I don't think I can ever respect these so-called agencies. Didn't they know who they were hiring?
> 
> You know this talk has depressed me beyond everything.
> 
> 
> 
> We do not call those who call partition a blunder patriots. Sorry. And if we do take up arms to the invaders in this hypothetical situation we will never murder civilians... in your case inspired by MQM and Taliban you will be bombing every poor person you find in the name of your war for urdu speakers or jihad or whatever you call it.
> 
> I believe you have not received a marriage proposal from @Zarvan yet who will fall in love upon witnessing your posts. Look @Secur Zarvan has a twin brother here. 2 in 1 package of ethno-fascism and terrorist-sympathizer all in one which comes with unlimited warranty. You can confront him, smack him but nothing will come out of it in the end.
> 
> 
> 
> The corruption of the police not withstanding... this talk has worried me about the parhey likhey jahils working for our "federal government"...
> 
> By the way you are in a police office, most likely under them if you work for either the CID, Special Branch or Investigation branch. What are you complaining about. They are part of the police and work in conjunction with all other departments. I have no knowledge any other "federal agency" being there.
> 
> 
> 
> It would be best for your own health that you do not bring this up if you do not wish me to lose my temper, there is no patriotism in someone suggesting Pakistan's existence is a mistake. If it was turkey you would be hanged. I explained that Urdu-speakers chauvinism was one of the reasons for the fall of Bangladesh. It was our family's lack of respect for other cultures that led to it. Even now we say Urdu should be promoted, never Pashto, Sindhi or any other language should be promoted. What about them-they are our cultures too, make Pakistan rich too.
> 
> When you had a part to play and could have stopped what happened in 71 then you have no right to open your mouth in this matter. You dare to blame our Pakistan's formation for your incompetence?
> 
> 
> 
> You are like a stuck clock its needles cursed to stay where they are in a cruel monotony. No force can come and move you from your original stand just as none can clean the grime, ***** and feculence that mires your mind like a mucky viscous pool. I explained to you this assessment is very wrong and is not something we should teach our kids but I believe your parents might have had links to terrorist groups either MQM, Taliban or perhaps even foreign intelligence due to which you have been taught this. Self-gratification or making claims that our ethnic group did more or sacrificed more than the others and others did nothing is the very beginning of the problem.
> 
> Even if true it should never be said. I gave you examples of personalities too. But there is nothing that can be done for you.
> 
> 
> 
> There will be a gunman standing on my doorstep the moment I tell you who I am. Aren't you tired of torturing innocent people and bori band lashein?
> 
> An Indian would claim the partition was a mistake. A Pakistani would counter him and remind him that millions more of us would be dead if we were in one nation.Why is an MQM thug so interested in who I am? The only reason possibly could be that you are interested in murder of every other fellow who does not support the MQM.
> 
> 
> 
> You are in intelligence. So now chief? When is the next order coming from Altaf. What information do you pass off to him?
> 
> 
> 
> I am ex-lord of PNA. Strong support base. Right Wing Nationalist shifted to liberal nationalism. This statement is very similar to the abuse you inflicted on Chak Bamu-here u attack my loyalty to nation despite my strong statements in support of Pakistan, there you attacked a fellow Pakistanis background proving unfit for any role in a federal agency whatsoever.
> 
> I wonder why you guys think you have done more for the country than anyone else which is exactly what leads to idiots coming to power who believe they know everything. I don't boast about what I do and did.
> 
> 
> 
> It is better than being known as a traitor. You do not believe in Pakistan, you think the Taliban are good people. And we wonder how the country is being run. I don't understand when you do not admit anything can ever be wrong with MQM how you can deal with their criminals and murderers? You are to unobjective and primitive in thought. Too attached to a political party to be a good agent or cop.
> 
> Btw CID has rules since the rise in terrorism not to disclose identity. This sounds like wet farts to me.
> 
> 
> 
> I am supposed to believe you came there without sifarish? You don't believe in Pakistan, you support the taliban. Now I don't see any reason you should be in such a sensitive place if indeed you are not a liar with his pants on fire. What got you there?
> 
> 
> 
> Better that way. You can shoot anyone you want, no questions asked and definitely no witnesses. Mission accomplished James bond style, or maybe Kalu style (lollywood political gangster movie) in your case.
> 
> 
> 
> I LIVE IN KARACHI. I am here now. I am a journalist-currently sick. I have done all I could to fix every issue in Pakistan and that is why I challenge bigots like you. One thing I have done is build goodwill between the various groups instead of attacking every other ethnic group or demanding extra rights. Whatever is given to me I will accept in my nationalism. I do not err or cry, I hurt over how things turned out and my sacrifice may never be recognized but in Nationalism you ask nothing in return.
> 
> 
> 
> By the way Australia never bothered to check your background. Support for terrorism-both ethnic and religious including support for Taliban? While I was in Canada I wondered what these guys problem was with a bunch of secularist students for godsake. Why us Nationalists? It was because we were developing a political identity and that scared them out of their pants, made them piss right in those dirty pyjamas gifted by US of A.
> 
> If these countries spent half as much time dealing with people like you there wouldn't be a problem. But then I can see why Australia left you alone despite being a Taliban supporter. It hasn't got anything to do with them... as long as you guys go home and kill innocent Pakistanis in abundance-nothing to do with Australia, US or Canada. You can see the same with their foreign policy and how Allah Nazar is sitting outside as well at total ease. As long as the murderers attack Pakistanis everything is perfectly fine. No wonder a lot of people cheer when their soldiers die.
> 
> I even noticed one such guy. Was shocked. Never heard those useless canucks troubling him. Is the australian citizenship for quick escape in case the **** hits the fan for your political party?
> 
> 
> 
> Find a good, solid wall. Now paint all of it with rhino glue or construction adhesive glue. Stick your bum to this wall. Name the wall MQM. You will finally realize what your problem actually is. Even then you may not.
> 
> My job is not to defend those factions. All of them took part in killings. And don't blame the military for doing its job. We Karachites want the army to arrive and finish these MQM and other terrorists once and for all.
> 
> 
> 
> What is your role in providing guns to MQM?
> 
> 
> 
> Only a fool can deny that NOT ONE of the 3576 criminal cases against Altaf Hussain and MQM are true. Not one? And you say you are impartial. It is a sad state of the Sindh police. Someone says hire this guy or the recruiter is as bigoted as you you will be hired immediately.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are a part of a federal intelligence agency... this is a lot of fun. Which one? The office you told me about there is CID which is the only good one. It is actually under the Sindh police whichi itself is under the ministry of interior. Lol. You are criticizing the same police you work for later on?
> 
> You have said everything now why don't you tell us each and every thing? Sindh police comes under the ministry of interior but basically it is run almost completely by the Provincial and Local governments with influences from smaller political parties. IGP Sindh is Fayaz Ahmed Leghari who has relatives all over the Sindh government. A Leghari was also involved in ensuring the release of Zardari.
> 
> Also another thing. I am a journalist and that itself involves very heavy research so in other words am a researcher too. I have every statistic from every related department. You cannot beat me in a debate. Your job is to investigate if what you say is true. My job to find issues, write articles on them and work to solve them.
> 
> 
> 
> Here you say this... then you say this:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are a Sindhi-why is this affecting you? We were supposed to merge according to what Quaid E Azam actually said... so no issue if a Sindhi getting the role
> 
> I already gave you the population statistics. They make up more than 60%+ of the population of the province. Its very natural. Personally I believe, yeah no harm in having one Urdu-speaker but perhaps you don't know the chief minister is elected by the provincial assembly of Sindh which is dominated by PPP which your MQM is in an alliance with. If it was such an issue why didn't you quit? By the way Ishratul Ibad Khan is the longest serving governor in the history of Sindh. Average time for a governor is 1-2 years. Serving from 2002. Strange no?
> 
> I am seriously worried about your mentality. No wonder terrorists go free in this city. I thought usually an ethnic bigot was different from a religious one-you are a 2 in 1 package mistakenly imported from India. Why don't you shoot your parents who moved there. After all if partition was a mistake it was their mistake too. Why did they move? Being an MQM gun-slinger I believe this no major issue for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. The qouta isn't implemented actually. You will notice this in the figures for people serving in Bangal government in 70's before it broke up. The population of Bengalis working for the federal government was lower than their real population percentage in the province.
> 
> Another thing is there is a 2% qouta for disabled people in government jobs. Lol. Try and find one person who meets the qouta. Who are you trying to fool, Chaundhry sahab of Australia? We know the rot. Chaudhry Aslam of anti-extremist cell of CID even hangs around with many girls and is drunk half the time. We know your life-style and how you look down on ordinary citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like you have made all plans to put me in jail and torture me. You don't need American imput for that... congratulations at least you make some decisions on your own MashaAllah being the Taliban/MQM supporter you are, Allah will surely reward you for your stupidity. Perhaps those that were involved the release of a number of TTP militants were from there too?
> 
> Stop sitting there with your legs on the table and ordering Sindhis and Pashtuns around. Personally I believe you are a wannabe CID guy.
> 
> 
> 
> Bhutto's mistakes and stupid allegations left and right are not the topic of this debate. It is the comparison of terrorist Altaf with Quaid E Azam which would set any patriots hair on fire.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. Did your MQM boss tell you that? I checked. No qouta whatsoever has been applied for jobs in radio Pakistan. Stop posting rubbish. Please. You made me waste 45 minutes today. Also no Baloch at all for radio Pakistan. There is no qouta system for directors. They are brought forth on merit and capability alone.
> 
> I have a question, no ridicule, no mocking you despite being a terrorist. Lets suppose you aren't trying to copy Akshay Kumar and are indeed in a federal agency. You aren't disengaged from race so lets say there is an MQM terrorist who murders 10-20 people. He is arrested. Are you going to do your job without prejudice? You think Taliban are freedom fighters, are you going to arrest them or release them in dead of night just like in the reports I have been receiving? Serious question.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it the same thing if someone else (lets say me-hypothetically) says he is calling an idiot an idiot?
> 
> 
> 
> I have never come across such a ridiculous case. But your knowledge on the matter is amazing-being the MQM's mole in the federal agencies, probably in spare time siphoning off classified information off to India.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. In that video he looked like he was about to burst out crying like a child, he was wounded and tortured brutally. By the way my source says he has been freed. Did you play a hand in that?
> 
> 
> 
> Stop warning everyone and trying to scare them being in a federal agency and all. We all know that police uses torture as a means of extracting confessions and solving cases. Usually 90% are right, they have no other means-thats at least what the police officers told me though it doesn't make it right. Also you are first under the Sindh police which is itself under the Federal government.
> 
> 
> 
> The 15K murdered have a larger population of Sindhis than urdu-speakers...
> 
> The Pashtuns chauvinists say i am not Pashtun, you and your gangsters say I am not a Muhajir. Perhaps I am not, I am a Pakistani Nationalist. What the hell are you? Clear proof that there are douches in federal agencies.


Sir I am a Proud Muslim unlike some liberal jerks who are too busy in eating **** of their American masters and as Muslims when we have a state we see what are the orders of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW not what Mr Jinah has said or not because for Muslim authority is ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW not Jinah or any one else

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## SHAMK9

Zarvan said:


> Sir I am a Proud Muslim unlike some liberal jerks who are too busy in eating **** of their American masters and as Muslims when we have a state we see what are the orders of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW not what Mr Jinah has said or not because for Muslim authority is ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW not Jinah or any one else


no, Jinnah's Pakistan is what everyone wants, not some mullah republic state.


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## Zarvan

SHAMK9 said:


> no, Jinnah's Pakistan is what everyone wants, not some mullah republic state.


We want Pakistan where laws of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW are implemented but those who are traitors of Islam and touts of kufr want something else

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## SHAMK9

Zarvan said:


> We want Pakistan where laws of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW are implemented but those who are traitors of Islam and touts of kufr want something else


Depends on who you consider 'we', maybe taliban?


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## Zarvan

SHAMK9 said:


> Depends on who you consider 'we', maybe taliban?


No the liberal jerks the ***** of the society

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## SHAMK9

Zarvan said:


> No the liberal jerks the ***** of the society


Liberals don't blow themselves up, extremists do, how come I never see you commenting on religious extremists? liberals = Zionists, kufr, kafirs, jews but what about religious extremists? are they saints to you?

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## Mav3rick

haviZsultan said:


> Frankly this seems like a waste of time. Guys in federal agencies always have their noses in heavenly clouds while trying to walk in the world of men making every effort to storm on us little pathetic beings. They are arrogant, stubborn and hard-headed.
> 
> By the way there is a lot of sifarish that goes around. How did you end up there? You probably know some MQM people, did they pull strings?



Haven't I given my point of view clearly enough in the previous post? I mean how retarded are you???





haviZsultan said:


> Those who say they are critics of the MQM never seem to criticize a thing about them and are the most funny people, in fact happen to be their diehard supporters. Did you see the Ajmal Pahari video confession? I could post it... but when you ignored proper cases I provided then I believe there is no power that can make you look critically or objectively at this situation.



I have seen Pahari's video and a lot of other videos too including those that were aired every night before 9:00pm khabarnama on PTV during the early 90's, and I have given you my opinion on coercion tactics of LEA's and also that statements made under duress are inadmissible in the court of law, for a very valid reason. They may be beyond the reach of understanding of only those who have very low IQ.





haviZsultan said:


> Do note people will not take too kindly when their parents sacrifice to cross the border will be called a mistake, Pakistan's formation a mistake and Jinnah's ideology one as well. Don't say it in Karachi or you may not be able to bear the consequences.



Yet again, only a retard would continue to post things that I have been saying as if any contradiction exists.





haviZsultan said:


> You have launched another bomb. Man what the hell are you doing in such an important position? This is why we are losing both on the ethnic front and on the religious front. Wolves dress up like sheep and join our agencies. This is a huge revelation. I don't think I can ever respect these so-called agencies. Didn't they know who they were hiring?
> 
> You know this talk has depressed me beyond everything.



And the idiocy continues, unparalleled and unabating. Talibaan were, are and will remain our assets but dumb kids like you cannot understand it. Kid, go and learn, even the US declares them "Not Enemies" and is holding negotiations with them wherever possible.





haviZsultan said:


> We do not call those who call partition a blunder patriots. Sorry. And if we do take up arms to the invaders in this hypothetical situation we will never murder civilians... in your case inspired by MQM and Taliban you will be bombing every poor person you find in the name of your war for urdu speakers or jihad or whatever you call it.
> 
> I believe you have not received a marriage proposal from @Zarvan yet who will fall in love upon witnessing your posts. Look @Secur Zarvan has a twin brother here. 2 in 1 package of ethno-fascism and terrorist-sympathizer all in one which comes with unlimited warranty. You can confront him, smack him but nothing will come out of it in the end.



People are such dumb ***** that they are unable to differentiate b/w a freedom fighter and a terrorist. Most cannot even understand the concepts. Only the absolutely dumb or the absolute tyrants consider Talibaan as terrorists. Smart people know the difference b/w Talibaan and TTP.





haviZsultan said:


> The corruption of the police not withstanding... this talk has worried me about the parhey likhey jahils working for our "federal government"...
> 
> By the way you are in a police office, most likely under them if you work for either the CID, Special Branch or Investigation branch. What are you complaining about. They are part of the police and work in conjunction with all other departments. I have no knowledge any other "federal agency" being there.



CID/Special Branch & Police are all Provincial LEA's. I told you that I am an officer of an intelligence agency of the Federal Government. You lack even the most primitive of difference b/w an LEA and an intelligence agency and the matters are compounded further when you confuse federal & provincial subjects. 

I can personally explain the difference in my office where I will even offer you tea/coffee in a decent office environment.





haviZsultan said:


> It would be best for your own health that you do not bring this up if you do not wish me to lose my temper, there is no patriotism in someone suggesting Pakistan's existence is a mistake. If it was turkey you would be hanged. I explained that Urdu-speakers chauvinism was one of the reasons for the fall of Bangladesh. It was our family's lack of respect for other cultures that led to it. Even now we say Urdu should be promoted, never Pashto, Sindhi or any other language should be promoted. What about them-they are our cultures too, make Pakistan rich too.
> 
> When you had a part to play and could have stopped what happened in 71 then you have no right to open your mouth in this matter. You dare to blame our Pakistan's formation for your incompetence?



Damn your understanding! Whoever said anything about the existence of Pakistan being a mistake??? I can only call your existence a mistake, after reading the same posts again and again. And all first world countries have forged unity under 1 language, not multiple languages. A single language unites helps people understand each other clearly and helps unite them. Why is that so hard to understand? Furthermore, Urdu is understood and spoken throughout the country. It is the forth larges used language in the world!!

'71 happened because Bangladesh was physically away from us, had it been linked to us physically, no power would have been able to divide us. And that's my stand.





haviZsultan said:


> You are like a stuck clock its needles cursed to stay where they are in a cruel monotony. No force can come and move you from your original stand just as none can clean the grime, ***** and feculence that mires your mind like a mucky viscous pool. I explained to you this assessment is very wrong and is not something we should teach our kids but I believe your parents might have had links to terrorist groups either MQM, Taliban or perhaps even foreign intelligence due to which you have been taught this. Self-gratification or making claims that our ethnic group did more or sacrificed more than the others and others did nothing is the very beginning of the problem.
> 
> Even if true it should never be said. I gave you examples of personalities too. But there is nothing that can be done for you.



When you bring in my parents in your bullshit, you are upsetting me and that's not what I want to be. Here I am willing to explain everything to you in person and you hell bent on insulting me and my family and that too because you are an ignorant little fool!





haviZsultan said:


> There will be a gunman standing on my doorstep the moment I tell you who I am. Aren't you tired of torturing innocent people and bori band lashein?
> 
> An Indian would claim the partition was a mistake. A Pakistani would counter him and remind him that millions more of us would be dead if we were in one nation.Why is an MQM thug so interested in who I am? The only reason possibly could be that you are interested in murder of every other fellow who does not support the MQM.



I can only state on the forum that I do not command any hitman and that I neither go around killing people nor do I order hits. All that I can say is that I am in a position to convince people more in person then on forums as on forums there's only so much that a person can say or explain without the topic going out of hand.

You are more than welcome to bring in your friends to my office (which is an official Government of Pakistan Building) and people on the forum would know you are coming to see me. What more can I offer you, perhaps I can come to your office, alone?





haviZsultan said:


> You are in intelligence. So now chief? When is the next order coming from Altaf. What information do you pass off to him?
> 
> 
> 
> I am ex-lord of PNA. Strong support base. Right Wing Nationalist shifted to liberal nationalism. This statement is very similar to the abuse you inflicted on Chak Bamu-here u attack my loyalty to nation despite my strong statements in support of Pakistan, there you attacked a fellow Pakistanis background proving unfit for any role in a federal agency whatsoever.
> 
> I wonder why you guys think you have done more for the country than anyone else which is exactly what leads to idiots coming to power who believe they know everything. I don't boast about what I do and did.



I was hoping that you would have realized, as did Chak Bamu, that I wasn't attacking anyone's loyalty but rather defending the loyalty of those who migrated after partition. Do you think people who did not have to migrate sacrificed the same as those who migrated?





haviZsultan said:


> It is better than being known as a traitor. You do not believe in Pakistan, you think the Taliban are good people. And we wonder how the country is being run. I don't understand when you do not admit anything can ever be wrong with MQM how you can deal with their criminals and murderers? You are to unobjective and primitive in thought. Too attached to a political party to be a good agent or cop.
> 
> Btw CID has rules since the rise in terrorism not to disclose identity. This sounds like wet farts to me.



And the deliberate attempts to ignore my posts and continue with your nonsense rhetoric. I am at times forced to wonder what your real objective here is, what agenda you have.





haviZsultan said:


> I am supposed to believe you came there without sifarish? You don't believe in Pakistan, you support the taliban. Now I don't see any reason you should be in such a sensitive place if indeed you are not a liar with his pants on fire. What got you there?



I guess you will have to come and see for yourself what I have here.





haviZsultan said:


> Better that way. You can shoot anyone you want, no questions asked and definitely no witnesses. Mission accomplished James bond style, or maybe Kalu style (lollywood political gangster movie) in your case.



And the nonsense continues.......





haviZsultan said:


> I LIVE IN KARACHI. I am here now. I am a journalist-currently sick. I have done all I could to fix every issue in Pakistan and that is why I challenge bigots like you. One thing I have done is build goodwill between the various groups instead of attacking every other ethnic group or demanding extra rights. Whatever is given to me I will accept in my nationalism. I do not err or cry, I hurt over how things turned out and my sacrifice may never be recognized but in Nationalism you ask nothing in return.



See, you keep claiming that you are in Karachi but at the same time you refuse to come to my officer or to invite me to yours. How do I confirm you claim, which should I consider bogus?





haviZsultan said:


> By the way Australia never bothered to check your background. Support for terrorism-both ethnic and religious including support for Taliban? While I was in Canada I wondered what these guys problem was with a bunch of secularist students for godsake. Why us Nationalists? It was because we were developing a political identity and that scared them out of their pants, made them piss right in those dirty pyjamas gifted by US of A.
> 
> If these countries spent half as much time dealing with people like you there wouldn't be a problem. But then I can see why Australia left you alone despite being a Taliban supporter. It hasn't got anything to do with them... as long as you guys go home and kill innocent Pakistanis in abundance-nothing to do with Australia, US or Canada. You can see the same with their foreign policy and how Allah Nazar is sitting outside as well at total ease. As long as the murderers attack Pakistanis everything is perfectly fine. No wonder a lot of people cheer when their soldiers die.
> 
> I even noticed one such guy. Was shocked. Never heard those useless canucks troubling him. Is the australian citizenship for quick escape in case the **** hits the fan for your political party?



The dual citizenship is to ensure that my children get the best possible education anywhere they want in the world. I'd much rather have educational institutes in Pakistan that rival the best of institutes around the world but that looks like a very distant dream.





haviZsultan said:


> Find a good, solid wall. Now paint all of it with rhino glue or construction adhesive glue. Stick your bum to this wall. Name the wall MQM. You will finally realize what your problem actually is. Even then you may not.
> 
> My job is not to defend those factions. All of them took part in killings. And don't blame the military for doing its job. We Karachites want the army to arrive and finish these MQM and other terrorists once and for all.



And again you have given yourself away. No self respecting Karachiite wants any military operation in Karachi. Matter of fact, no sane person would consider any military operation anywhere they live. Military is trained for a very specific purpose and that does not include policing their own citizens. 

On the other hand, you should encourage investment in development of capacity and training of personnel of LEA's, they will prove to be a permanent solution.





haviZsultan said:


> What is your role in providing guns to MQM?



Identical to yours of making sense.....Zilch!!





haviZsultan said:


> Only a fool can deny that NOT ONE of the 3576 criminal cases against Altaf Hussain and MQM are true. Not one? And you say you are impartial. It is a sad state of the Sindh police. Someone says hire this guy or the recruiter is as bigoted as you you will be hired immediately.



I said most of the cases are false and bogus, not all. How can I say that all of those cases were false when I haven't even seen all the cases?

And you are indeed correct on 1 thing, finally. Sindh Police is in a sad state of affairs because of politicization over the decades.





haviZsultan said:


> Now you are a part of a federal intelligence agency... this is a lot of fun. Which one? The office you told me about there is CID which is the only good one. It is actually under the Sindh police whichi itself is under the ministry of interior. Lol. You are criticizing the same police you work for later on?
> 
> You have said everything now why don't you tell us each and every thing? Sindh police comes under the ministry of interior but basically it is run almost completely by the Provincial and Local governments with influences from smaller political parties. IGP Sindh is Fayaz Ahmed Leghari who has relatives all over the Sindh government. A Leghari was also involved in ensuring the release of Zardari.
> 
> Also another thing. I am a journalist and that itself involves very heavy research so in other words am a researcher too. I have every statistic from every related department. You cannot beat me in a debate. Your job is to investigate if what you say is true. My job to find issues, write articles on them and work to solve them.



Let me explain even further, Sindh Police and all allied entities & LEA's under the provincial government report to the advisor to interior minister. The advisor to the interior minister is sort of a provincial interior minister who serves under the federal interior minister. If you were indeed a journalist, you would have known that too.

And my job is not to 'investigate' anything, the role of my agency is to gather intelligence, analyze it, disseminate reports and directions for actions to LEA's. Furthermore, my agency is an autonomous body, which means that it does not report to any ministry.





haviZsultan said:


> Here you say this... then you say this:
> 
> Now you are a Sindhi-why is this affecting you? We were supposed to merge according to what Quaid E Azam actually said... so no issue if a Sindhi getting the role
> 
> I already gave you the population statistics. They make up more than 60%+ of the population of the province. Its very natural. Personally I believe, yeah no harm in having one Urdu-speaker but perhaps you don't know the chief minister is elected by the provincial assembly of Sindh which is dominated by PPP which your MQM is in an alliance with. If it was such an issue why didn't you quit? By the way Ishratul Ibad Khan is the longest serving governor in the history of Sindh. Average time for a governor is 1-2 years. Serving from 2002. Strange no?



As I explained previously that it is no big deal holding the seat of the Governor as there is hardly anything that he/she can do expect serve as chancellor of Government Universities, which is unless Governor's rule is imposed!

And it does not affect me as such when there has never been an Urdu speaking CM. My attempt was merely to prove that the power in Sindh has always resided with Sindhis (PPP basically).





haviZsultan said:


> I am seriously worried about your mentality. No wonder terrorists go free in this city. I thought usually an ethnic bigot was different from a religious one-you are a 2 in 1 package mistakenly imported from India. Why don't you shoot your parents who moved there. After all if partition was a mistake it was their mistake too. Why did they move? Being an MQM gun-slinger I believe this no major issue for you.



I honestly believe that you have crossed the lines once too often. Any decent person would not have brought in parents. Your consistent attempts of dragging my family forces me to say 1 thing, if I knew your parents I would most likely feel like shooting them before you for not strangling your sorry being at birth!!





haviZsultan said:


> Lol. The qouta isn't implemented actually. You will notice this in the figures for people serving in Bangal government in 70's before it broke up. The population of Bengalis working for the federal government was lower than their real population percentage in the province.
> 
> Another thing is there is a 2% qouta for disabled people in government jobs. Lol. Try and find one person who meets the qouta. Who are you trying to fool, Chaundhry sahab of Australia? We know the rot. Chaudhry Aslam of anti-extremist cell of CID even hangs around with many girls and is drunk half the time. We know your life-style and how you look down on ordinary citizens.



Perhaps the quota is not implemented in letter & spirit but all attempts are secured to adhere to it as otherwise all departments have to face Government Audit on recruitment and every step and decision has to be justified else the matter is raised with the senate's standing committee. 





haviZsultan said:


> Looks like you have made all plans to put me in jail and torture me. You don't need American imput for that... congratulations at least you make some decisions on your own MashaAllah being the Taliban/MQM supporter you are, Allah will surely reward you for your stupidity. Perhaps those that were involved the release of a number of TTP militants were from there too?
> 
> Stop sitting there with your legs on the table and ordering Sindhis and Pashtuns around. Personally I believe you are a wannabe CID guy.



You will find me quite pleasant in person, which is all I can. I have never once threatened you despite your moronic comments and personal attacks. I can only request you, once again, to come see this wannabe.





haviZsultan said:


> Bhutto's mistakes and stupid allegations left and right are not the topic of this debate. It is the comparison of terrorist Altaf with Quaid E Azam which would set any patriots hair on fire.



There can be no comparison b/w AH and Quaid-e-Azam. AH merely attempted to defend his position by hiding behind Quaid.





haviZsultan said:


> Lol. Did your MQM boss tell you that? I checked. No qouta whatsoever has been applied for jobs in radio Pakistan. Stop posting rubbish. Please. You made me waste 45 minutes today. Also no Baloch at all for radio Pakistan. There is no qouta system for directors. They are brought forth on merit and capability alone.
> 
> I have a question, no ridicule, no mocking you despite being a terrorist. Lets suppose you aren't trying to copy Akshay Kumar and are indeed in a federal agency. You aren't disengaged from race so lets say there is an MQM terrorist who murders 10-20 people. He is arrested. Are you going to do your job without prejudice? You think Taliban are freedom fighters, are you going to arrest them or release them in dead of night just like in the reports I have been receiving? Serious question.



I would follow the SOP to the letter and my own organizations authority and ACT/ORDANANCE on the matter.

And listen again, there is quota on all Government Positions, position wise and not in general as otherwise any 1 ethnicity would fill up all the senior most positions.





haviZsultan said:


> Is it the same thing if someone else (lets say me-hypothetically) says he is calling an idiot an idiot?



Technically, you are an idiot, so no!





haviZsultan said:


> I have never come across such a ridiculous case. But your knowledge on the matter is amazing-being the MQM's mole in the federal agencies, probably in spare time siphoning off classified information off to India.
> 
> Exactly. In that video he looked like he was about to burst out crying like a child, he was wounded and tortured brutally. By the way my source says he has been freed. Did you play a hand in that?
> 
> Stop warning everyone and trying to scare them being in a federal agency and all. We all know that police uses torture as a means of extracting confessions and solving cases. Usually 90% are right, they have no other means-thats at least what the police officers told me though it doesn't make it right. Also you are first under the Sindh police which is itself under the Federal government.



Have explained more then I should have to someone who is not interested in understanding anything.





haviZsultan said:


> The 15K murdered have a larger population of Sindhis than urdu-speakers...
> 
> The Pashtuns chauvinists say i am not Pashtun, you and your gangsters say I am not a Muhajir. Perhaps I am not, I am a Pakistani Nationalist. What the hell are you? Clear proof that there are douches in federal agencies.



More BS!! All the 15k that MQM quotes were Urdu speaking.


----------



## Mav3rick

haviZsultan said:


> Also I have to ask @Mav3rick didn't you say you had dual citizenship of Australia? By law it is not allowed to serve anywhere in the police or in any federal agency most particularly some agency that has to deal with sensitive intelligence matters concerning foreign (possibly) hostile nations for someone who has dual citizenship. I can confirm this tomorrow, maybe rules have changed or you work for a branch or cell that is different. Can you tell me your name and your officer in charge? You have made this fact known so you are probably part of "overt" operations teams rather than covert though through a contact I know CID bigwigs has told every employee on account of terrorism situation to hide his identity and not be too open about it. Those guys have no uniform either.



Your ignorance and stupidity knows no bounds! There is no law against dual citizens to work as a Government Officer. The law that you are referring to, in supreme stupidity, restricts dual citizens from holding public offices.





haviZsultan said:


> Maverick I believe you may be a liar and I suspect your intentions on this website. Even @darkinsky has honor. He refused to defend the partition speech despite all his major flaws. You are different. Are you an Indian national? Liars get caught eventually. Many people here have been caught with dual accounts trying to bash Pakistan or accentuate ethnic/religious conflict.



Yaar tu kabhi aa ke mil to le, teri saari kasar durr na ker dun to jo dil chahe likh dena yahan!



Chak Bamu said:


> Wrong sir. Very wrong. You have no idea. Punjabis literally gave up their language for Urdu. This is a well-known fact. Only someone who is totally ignorant of post-partition Punjabi ethos can say this. Most unfortunate.
> 
> LO WOH BHI KEHTAY HAIN BE-NANG-O-NAAAM HAI
> YEH JANTA TO KABHI GHAR KO NAH LUTATA MAIN.



Punjabis gave up Punjabi for Pakistan and so did Bengalis but had it not been Urdu, would Punjab have accepted Bangla as the National language of Pakistan? That's my whole point that if it had not been a neutral language then everyone would have demanded their own language as the National language, hence the part of Urdu in bringing people closer on common ground.





Chak Bamu said:


> In your replies you assert that you do not know where you have insulted any ethnicity. I can tell you for sure that you have done it. Does not matter much in grand scheme of things. But it does hurt nonetheless.



Personally I don't believe I have insulted any ethnicity, perhaps my post has been misunderstood but I would very much like to know where exactly I have done so to either be able to correct myself or defend the post with clarity on the subject.


----------



## haviZsultan

Mav3rick said:


> Haven't I given my point of view clearly enough in the previous post? I mean how retarded are you???



People don't forgive those who call partition a mistake. You are simply not understanding the seriousness of what you said!



> I have seen Pahari's video and a lot of other videos too including those that were aired every night before 9:00pm khabarnama on PTV during the early 90's, and I have given you my opinion on coercion tactics of LEA's and also that statements made under duress are inadmissible in the court of law, for a very valid reason. They may be beyond the reach of understanding of only those who have very low IQ.



I have to ask? Does Ajmal Pahari look coerced here? 






You are such an MQM supporter you can't understand the simple fact. The entire country knows Ajmal Pahari is a mass murderer and you are defending him. I have severe doubts you are in an investigative agency. The people working in these agencies have to be disengaged from ethnic identity and cannot in anyway support a mass murderer. 



> Yet again, only a retard would continue to post things that I have been saying as if any contradiction exists.



I think you need simple logic and analytical skills being a baby playing with blocks dreaming of being a federal agent. Have you watched too many spy movies? Next part in bold and some parts color-marked for you so that each time your brain stops functioning you can look at this to comprehend that you are advocating treason to the Pakistani state.

*
Simple logical skills for you:
Lets say A is equal to B and B is equal to C and C is D. 
What does this mean? That A, B, C and D are exactly the SAME.

Now lets say A stands for Altaf Hussain calling partition a mistake and India should give "panah" to poor oppressed urdu-speakers like Ajmal Pahari who trained with terrorists. 

Now A equals B so B means that the formation of Pakistan was a mistake, in other words meaning Pakistan should never have been born.

Now A and B equal C so C means that Jinnah was a fool and his Pakistan theory, his sacrifice for us was a major mistake.

Now A,B and C equal D so D means that all migrants or Muhajirs are idiots, our fathers, parents, grandfathers, great-grandfathers and every single person who sacrificed property, families in what is now India, wealth only and only because they had a BELIEF in Pakistan and its ideology and were ready to die for it (200,000 probably did!) and believed that movement across the border for this noble cause was RIGHT. You said they were wrong.
*

Later, you make the comment that I am being PERSONAL. You said and supported A and that means D. So basically what you have done is killed your parents and forefathers ideology and a person who does that can shoot his parents as well, which is why you are a horrible choice for such a position. I would expect better of our agencies but if you are in there it means no problem of Pakistan can be solved. Do note I did not say you shot your parents-you have done it already and may do it in the physical sense too and you are the one who has said this by that comment. 



> And the idiocy continues, unparalleled and unabating. Talibaan were, are and will remain our assets but dumb kids like you cannot understand it. Kid, go and learn, even the US declares them "Not Enemies" and is holding negotiations with them wherever possible.



There is a serious problem. I have no clue what you are doing there. About 6 months ago when I was speaking to your ideological cousins from across the border in Afghanistan one of them said something useful for the first and last time an Afghan has said something useful. I said Afghans hate us... etc etc. He said Afghans don't hate you... they only hate those kind of people who celebrate when a bomb goes off in Afghanistan while condemning a blast in Pakistan. You look at it 80% of the Afghan Taliban's casualties are Afghan nationals not even US forces. Proves how callous we are and the wrong policies of some people.

I have severe doubts you are in any agency and are an Indian trying to take advantage of ethnic faultlines and at the same time trying to prove ISI is responsible for terrorism in Afghanistan and India. No so-called "Muhajir" has the energy to argue with a Pakistani Nationalist of "Muhajir" birth with stats and figures. 



> People are such dumb ***** that they are unable to differentiate b/w a freedom fighter and a terrorist. Most cannot even understand the concepts. Only the absolutely dumb or the absolute tyrants consider Talibaan as terrorists. Smart people know the difference b/w Talibaan and TTP.



Only the dumb can turn a blind eye to the suffering of an innocent, whether the victim is an Afghan National (who I severely dislike, I may add because of their hatred of Pakistan) or an innocent Pashtun/Sindhi/Baloch/Punjabi murdered by the MQM. Only a callous butcher can after doing this seek to obfuscate the evidence that these parties were indeed involved in heinous crimes (MQM and Taliban)... the distinction between Afghan Taliban and TTP is necessary I believe but not to shower the Afghan Taliban with rose petals but to understand our priorities (Those militants attacking Pakistani citizens)



> CID/Special Branch & Police are all Provincial LEA's. I told you that I am an officer of an intelligence agency of the Federal Government. You lack even the most primitive of difference b/w an LEA and an intelligence agency and the matters are compounded further when you confuse federal & provincial subjects.



Why do they come under the Interior ministry? From what I heard the management is largely left to Provincial governments. The place you told me... I asked around. Only police and related departments exist there as far as they know. If it is a hidden ISI office or something those places are supposed to remain unknown. lol. Who gave you permission to tell everyone their locations? Or is this a silly game you are playing with your 10 year old cousins just because being a federal agent sounds cool?



> I can personally explain the difference in my office where I will even offer you tea/coffee in a decent office environment.



I seriously doubt your intentions. Also this seems weird. You do not mention *which agency* you work for. You do not mention what your name is. You do not mention what your boss's name is. Now if you did I would know where to go. But I mean this is amazing! No information whatsoever except directing me to the building known as the Sindh Police Headquarters which has at least 500 employees? 

How do you work, I wonder or are you usually spending time slobbing whiskey while terrorists run scot-free? 



> Damn your understanding! Whoever said anything about the existence of Pakistan being a mistake???



Refer to the earlier points made about A being equal to B, C and D. Altaf's speech called partition a mistake-you support it and stand by it. Partition not happening means Pakistan wouldn't have been formed. Do you even understand this and how this is treason to Pakistan? Can you tell me the name of your boss or superior officer?

Also I might send someone in 2-3 months with a team of Aaj news if I can develop contact. About time there is a show about politicization and chauvinism based on ethnicity in the top echelons of power.



> I can only call your existence a mistake, after reading the same posts again and again. And all first world countries have forged unity under 1 language, not multiple languages. A single language unites helps people understand each other clearly and helps unite them. Why is that so hard to understand? Furthermore, Urdu is understood and spoken throughout the country. It is the forth larges used language in the world!!



Do you ever listen to anything? The purpose of Urdu being a neutral language was "neutralized" when Muhajirs developed a separate identity and the "Muhajir" identity as a name for themselves. They spoke Urdu and had to learn no other language. Others have to know 3 languages at least with many knowing more than that while we only speak Urdu which is taught at home and English which is taught at school. You guys have everything easy and you dare to insult others and look down at their languages. I will learn the language of every province because I love every inch of Pakistan-not just Karachi or in your case India. If we had merged as Sindhis it would have been a neutral language because no group would have his language imposed on others. A separate identity is harmful to Pakistan. 

I am not defending Urdu or attacking it. I am stating a fact about the mindset of Urdu-speakers who believe everything must remain in their favor and even when it is want more and cry about non-existent oppression. Being born in such a family from childhood I have been hearing abuse for Pashtuns, Punjabis and others. Its our families average mindset, the average thinking of an MQM supporter. 



> '71 happened because Bangladesh was physically away from us, had it been linked to us physically, no power would have been able to divide us. And that's my stand.



I deny this. How do Falklanders identify with British despite being near South America, how is Reunion which is full of Indians and Persians who have no link to Franks and is so far away near Madagascar, Africa? How does Spain control islands near Australia? No one thought of kicking them out.

This rubbish is promoted by the government and army because they mishandled a severe problem and made it worse causing the loss of half our nation. You can take pride that you were part of it and are now taking part in formation of Jinnahpur for Altaf Hussain. 



> When you bring in my parents in your bullshit, you are upsetting me and that's not what I want to be. Here I am willing to explain everything to you in person and you hell bent on insulting me and my family and that too because you are an ignorant little fool!



You can't murder everyone you don't agree with in torture cells, what do you want to explain that you can't explain here? If you really are with a federal agency I have seen and researched Pakistanis being framed on false charges in Canada while you sit on your bums, innocent people disappearing from Pakistan and ending up in America. That isn't being stopped how will anything else be stopped?

I know this is MQM policy but try to understand that being a terrorist for them is not good for your future. Eventually all bad people suffer. 

Also I did not insult your family. I just explained that by saying partition was a mistake you were basically saying it was better for your parents to have been murdered rather than coming to Pakistan, or for Pakistan to be formed. You said it not me. You can't put words in my mouth! This is such a lie. I told you that you had killed your parents ideologically (by calling Pakistan a mistake) and one who does that can kill them physically too. 

Learn A,B,C and D again. Sorry, look at the colored parts and what happens when A is equal to B, C and D. Simple mathematics. 



> I can only state on the forum that I do not command any hitman and that I neither go around killing people nor do I order hits. All that I can say is that I am in a position to convince people more in person then on forums as on forums there's only so much that a person can say or explain without the topic going out of hand.



If you can't debate on a forum then I have to ask you why are you here? To defend MQM or Taliban? You can do that on their website, join their rallies, recruit fighters etc. 

Why do you keep saying that. If you can convince me in person tell me the exact location of your office, your name and that of your boss. 



> You are more than welcome to bring in your friends to my office (which is an official Government of Pakistan Building) and people on the forum would know you are coming to see me. What more can I offer you, perhaps I can come to your office, alone?



There was a time when a politician in PMLN called me and offered a low level party position, lots of women, drugs and a salary. Even some of my Nationalist friends told me to say yes, one of us will be in government and we can start changing things-you will get to the top very quickly anyway. I got pretty angry as I have principles. You can't bribe opponents. 

When did I say I have an office? I have an ulcer and am sitting at home. My interviews are usually conducted on the net or by phone. 



> I was hoping that you would have realized, as did Chak Bamu, that I wasn't attacking anyone's loyalty but rather defending the loyalty of those who migrated after partition. Do you think people who did not have to migrate sacrificed the same as those who migrated?



Yes, and even if they didn't sacrifice as much as migrants it is not something we should preach or say. This nation is for all of us and we are to live and die with them. We take part in self-gratification and say I did more than you we are the progneiters of a senseless ethnic conflict, something at which MQM supporters excel. 

Chak Bamu is still stating you were insulting his ethnicity. But MQM people don't even notice they are racists. Its their mindsets.



> And the deliberate attempts to *ignore my posts* and continue with your nonsense rhetoric. I am at times forced to wonder what your real objective here is, what agenda you have.



You can be sure I never ignore the post of a bigot. I am sick-if I can stop the bigot from dividing my people-I will do it.

Also copying things others say proves you have no ingenuity. My objective and my agenda are the growth, prosperity and defense of my Pakistani motherland. My country is my life and for it I will die. 



> I guess you will have to come and see for yourself what I have here.



Let me guess. Kalashnikov rifle, sword, knife, what other torture tools do you have there? 



> And the nonsense continues.......



It does. 



> See, you keep claiming that you are in Karachi but at the same time you refuse to come to my officer or to invite me to yours. How do I confirm you claim, which should I consider bogus?



I am an independent journalist. I do not have an office. lol. 
I send my articles to news agencies and newspapers and hope they are accepted. If they are I get some money. 

Man are you mentally unstable? Where should I come? Who should I ask for among 100's of employees, genius about a guy named Mav3rick who is a kid on his computer?



> The dual citizenship is to ensure that my children get the best possible education anywhere they want in the world. I'd much rather have educational institutes in Pakistan that rival the best of institutes around the world but that looks like a very distant dream.



I am not surprised your children are abroad. You did not send them to India?



> And again you have given yourself away. No self respecting Karachiite wants any military operation in Karachi. Matter of fact, no sane person would consider any military operation anywhere they live. Military is trained for a very specific purpose and that does not include policing their own citizens.



What happens when its citizens begin murdering their own people and the police is too politicized to stop them? Army shouldn't come in. I gave you statistics of how target killing and murder rose since 1984 when MQM was formed. 



> On the other hand, you should encourage investment in development of capacity and training of personnel of LEA's, they will prove to be a permanent solution.



I wish I had your mentality... just kidding. 



> I said most of the cases are false and bogus, not all. How can I say that all of those cases were false when I haven't even seen all the cases?



I showed you 7 cases. In the report there are dead bodies, faces, mug shots. Proof's found at the location of the crime. The gun used and the gun the suspect carried, height and name of suspect, an interrogation report. Everything. You did not believe that... what will you believe?



> And you are indeed correct on 1 thing, finally. Sindh Police is in a sad state of affairs because of politicization over the decades.



Agree. Ajmal Pahari had 2 brothers in the police force by the way. Interesting...



> Let me explain even further, Sindh Police and all allied entities & LEA's under the provincial government report to the advisor to interior minister. The advisor to the interior minister is sort of a provincial interior minister who serves under the federal interior minister. If you were indeed a journalist, you would have known that too.



But you see... the interior ministry is a federal ministry. In either case who told you it was a job of a journalist to maintain information about provincial government and federal government?



> And my job is not to 'investigate' anything, the role of my agency is to gather intelligence, analyze it, disseminate reports and directions for actions to LEA's. Furthermore, my agency is an autonomous body, which means that it does not report to any ministry.



Are you telling me you are in FIA, ISI, MI or IB?  This is becoming ridiculous. MI answers directly to Military. ISI agents, I have never heard of one saying he is an ISI agent. 



> As I explained previously that it is no big deal holding the seat of the Governor as there is hardly anything that he/she can do expect serve as chancellor of Government Universities, which is unless Governor's rule is imposed!



How mazloom my fellow urdu-speakers are... holding a governors seat for 10 years, never before done in history. Do you know how many times governor rule or martial law has been launched and during these times the real ruler of Sindh has been the governor of Sindh? Abdul Qadir Sheikh, Azam Daudpota? These guys have ruled Sindh during governor's rule. All urdu-speakers. Sell garbage elsewhere. Its natural Sindhis would get more years of rule as they have 60% of the population.

This mentality is an anti-Pakistani mentality. You may not believe I am a son of a migrant but if I was otherwise my blood would not be set on fire by you calling partition a mistake. For the migrant Pakistan, is, was and forever will be because for him there is no other place. He left his hometown-only with the word Pakistan on his lips. However the one who forgets the sacrifice of his forefathers is only a traitor. I wish to merge as a Pashtun and have learned much of the language. I wish to undo the mistakes people like you made. 

Also even during Marshal Law the governor gains more power because he is also a martial law administrator and post of chief minister is abolished. So please get out of this victim mentality. I doubt you can do your job with it.

You are defending a murderer. Ajmal Pahari is a murderer and even the most pathetic observer can confirm this.



> And it does not affect me as such when there has never been an Urdu speaking CM. My attempt was merely to prove that the power in Sindh has always resided with Sindhis (PPP basically).



Why do you have to prove this when it does not matter?



> I honestly believe that you have crossed the lines once too often. Any decent person would not have brought in parents. Your consistent attempts of dragging my family forces me to say 1 thing, *if I knew your parents I would most likely feel like shooting them before you for not strangling your sorry being at birth!!*



See, I explained this to Luffy too. I do not say anything that is outright aggressive, it is basically the person's low mindset that turns it into such. The meaning of my words goes beyond your head. If partition was a mistake then so was the sacrifice of our parents who moved? 

If it was a mistake then they are wrong so I gave you a mere suggestion. You have already killed them ideologically by supporting Altaf's speech which called partition a mistake and wanted India to give us panah as they have done previously by raping our women, murdering our children and killing our men so no one would be left. I could tell you about what happened to some of us in Hyderabad, Deccan but you are a bigot and an Indian asset. 

Why are you avoiding this reality? Its a reality if partition was a mistake. Why don't you say your father or grand-father who moved was a fool and a traitor to India, your ideological homeland and Nehru is a hero who inspires you? You said it was right for your parents to be killed, not me. Stop stuffing words in my mouth to make me appear like some evil guy. Even noble people like Mohammed Farooq Khan or Malala appear evil to Taliban backers and MQM backers. 

What is your ancestral town anyway?

Note, when someone says something to me (I lost people in India, some distant relatives I personally know) like partition was a mistake it is like very brutally slapping me. It is worse torture than what you intend in that so-called office which will most likely be a torture cell in 9/0. It is torture. You do not know how strongly people feel about this. For me only Pakistan is important. If you really are in a federal agency our country is going to be ruined because of people like you. 

How can you hate other ehnicities while being in such an agency? Or are you a liar reading too much Alex Hawke rubbish?



> Perhaps the quota is not implemented in letter & spirit but all attempts are secured to adhere to it as otherwise all departments have to face Government Audit on recruitment and every step and decision has to be justified else the matter is raised with the senate's standing committee.



It is like you go about personally ensuring the qouta is applied. When you guys are so corrupt and hanging out with girls in hotels and smoking charas in hotels like Sheraton, PC and Mariot... something I have seen before well.... forget the qouta, time to party. 



> You will find me quite pleasant in person, which is all I can. I have never once threatened you despite your moronic comments and personal attacks. I can only request you, once again, to come see this wannabe.



You did threaten me. Short memory span?



> There can be no comparison b/w AH and Quaid-e-Azam. AH merely attempted to defend his position by hiding behind Quaid.



So why support his partition speech. Do you relent and apologize to migrants? To all of Pakistan for betraying it? 



> I would follow the SOP to the letter and my own organizations authority and ACT/ORDANANCE on the matter.



I really hope so... I hope the SOP and ACT/ORDINANCE is not Altaf's claim that "Jo Quaid ka ghaddar hai woh maut ka haqdar hai." 



> And listen again, there is quota on all Government Positions, position wise and not in general as otherwise any 1 ethnicity would fill up all the senior most positions.



None of my sources are confirming that a strict qouta system is indeed followed. If you want I will take your word for it. Who cares anyway. 



> More BS!! All the 15k that MQM quotes were Urdu speaking.



Yes exactly... MQM has the most reliable figures... 
The large majority are others. It is not a mistake to feel for other people. Remove this cloak of MQM chauvinism.


----------



## Mav3rick

haviZsultan said:


> People don't forgive those who call partition a mistake. You are simply not understanding the seriousness of what you said!
> 
> 
> 
> I have to ask? Does Ajmal Pahari look coerced here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are such an MQM supporter you can't understand the simple fact. The entire country knows Ajmal Pahari is a mass murderer and you are defending him. I have severe doubts you are in an investigative agency. The people working in these agencies have to be disengaged from ethnic identity and cannot in anyway support a mass murderer.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need simple logic and analytical skills being a baby playing with blocks dreaming of being a federal agent. Have you watched too many spy movies? Next part in bold and some parts color-marked for you so that each time your brain stops functioning you can look at this to comprehend that you are advocating treason to the Pakistani state.
> 
> *
> Simple logical skills for you:
> Lets say A is equal to B and B is equal to C and C is D.
> What does this mean? That A, B, C and D are exactly the SAME.
> 
> Now lets say A stands for Altaf Hussain calling partition a mistake and India should give "panah" to poor oppressed urdu-speakers like Ajmal Pahari who trained with terrorists.
> 
> Now A equals B so B means that the formation of Pakistan was a mistake, in other words meaning Pakistan should never have been born.
> 
> Now A and B equal C so C means that Jinnah was a fool and his Pakistan theory, his sacrifice for us was a major mistake.
> 
> Now A,B and C equal D so D means that all migrants or Muhajirs are idiots, our fathers, parents, grandfathers, great-grandfathers and every single person who sacrificed property, families in what is now India, wealth only and only because they had a BELIEF in Pakistan and its ideology and were ready to die for it (200,000 probably did!) and believed that movement across the border for this noble cause was RIGHT. You said they were wrong.
> *
> 
> Later, you make the comment that I am being PERSONAL. You said and supported A and that means D. So basically what you have done is killed your parents and forefathers ideology and a person who does that can shoot his parents as well, which is why you are a horrible choice for such a position. I would expect better of our agencies but if you are in there it means no problem of Pakistan can be solved. Do note I did not say you shot your parents-you have done it already and may do it in the physical sense too and you are the one who has said this by that comment.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a serious problem. I have no clue what you are doing there. About 6 months ago when I was speaking to your ideological cousins from across the border in Afghanistan one of them said something useful for the first and last time an Afghan has said something useful. I said Afghans hate us... etc etc. He said Afghans don't hate you... they only hate those kind of people who celebrate when a bomb goes off in Afghanistan while condemning a blast in Pakistan. You look at it 80% of the Afghan Taliban's casualties are Afghan nationals not even US forces. Proves how callous we are and the wrong policies of some people.
> 
> I have severe doubts you are in any agency and are an Indian trying to take advantage of ethnic faultlines and at the same time trying to prove ISI is responsible for terrorism in Afghanistan and India. No so-called "Muhajir" has the energy to argue with a Pakistani Nationalist of "Muhajir" birth with stats and figures.
> 
> 
> 
> Only the dumb can turn a blind eye to the suffering of an innocent, whether the victim is an Afghan National (who I severely dislike, I may add because of their hatred of Pakistan) or an innocent Pashtun/Sindhi/Baloch/Punjabi murdered by the MQM. Only a callous butcher can after doing this seek to obfuscate the evidence that these parties were indeed involved in heinous crimes (MQM and Taliban)... the distinction between Afghan Taliban and TTP is necessary I believe but not to shower the Afghan Taliban with rose petals but to understand our priorities (Those militants attacking Pakistani citizens)
> 
> 
> 
> Why do they come under the Interior ministry? From what I heard the management is largely left to Provincial governments. The place you told me... I asked around. Only police and related departments exist there as far as they know. If it is a hidden ISI office or something those places are supposed to remain unknown. lol. Who gave you permission to tell everyone their locations? Or is this a silly game you are playing with your 10 year old cousins just because being a federal agent sounds cool?
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt your intentions. Also this seems weird. You do not mention *which agency* you work for. You do not mention what your name is. You do not mention what your boss's name is. Now if you did I would know where to go. But I mean this is amazing! No information whatsoever except directing me to the building known as the Sindh Police Headquarters which has at least 500 employees?
> 
> How do you work, I wonder or are you usually spending time slobbing whiskey while terrorists run scot-free?
> 
> 
> 
> Refer to the earlier points made about A being equal to B, C and D. Altaf's speech called partition a mistake-you support it and stand by it. Partition not happening means Pakistan wouldn't have been formed. Do you even understand this and how this is treason to Pakistan? Can you tell me the name of your boss or superior officer?
> 
> Also I might send someone in 2-3 months with a team of Aaj news if I can develop contact. About time there is a show about politicization and chauvinism based on ethnicity in the top echelons of power.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you ever listen to anything? The purpose of Urdu being a neutral language was "neutralized" when Muhajirs developed a separate identity and the "Muhajir" identity as a name for themselves. They spoke Urdu and had to learn no other language. Others have to know 3 languages at least with many knowing more than that while we only speak Urdu which is taught at home and English which is taught at school. You guys have everything easy and you dare to insult others and look down at their languages. I will learn the language of every province because I love every inch of Pakistan-not just Karachi or in your case India. If we had merged as Sindhis it would have been a neutral language because no group would have his language imposed on others. A separate identity is harmful to Pakistan.
> 
> I am not defending Urdu or attacking it. I am stating a fact about the mindset of Urdu-speakers who believe everything must remain in their favor and even when it is want more and cry about non-existent oppression. Being born in such a family from childhood I have been hearing abuse for Pashtuns, Punjabis and others. Its our families average mindset, the average thinking of an MQM supporter.
> 
> 
> 
> I deny this. How do Falklanders identify with British despite being near South America, how is Reunion which is full of Indians and Persians who have no link to Franks and is so far away near Madagascar, Africa? How does Spain control islands near Australia? No one thought of kicking them out.
> 
> This rubbish is promoted by the government and army because they mishandled a severe problem and made it worse causing the loss of half our nation. You can take pride that you were part of it and are now taking part in formation of Jinnahpur for Altaf Hussain.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't murder everyone you don't agree with in torture cells, what do you want to explain that you can't explain here? If you really are with a federal agency I have seen and researched Pakistanis being framed on false charges in Canada while you sit on your bums, innocent people disappearing from Pakistan and ending up in America. That isn't being stopped how will anything else be stopped?
> 
> I know this is MQM policy but try to understand that being a terrorist for them is not good for your future. Eventually all bad people suffer.
> 
> Also I did not insult your family. I just explained that by saying partition was a mistake you were basically saying it was better for your parents to have been murdered rather than coming to Pakistan, or for Pakistan to be formed. You said it not me. You can't put words in my mouth! This is such a lie. I told you that you had killed your parents ideologically (by calling Pakistan a mistake) and one who does that can kill them physically too.
> 
> Learn A,B,C and D again. Sorry, look at the colored parts and what happens when A is equal to B, C and D. Simple mathematics.
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't debate on a forum then I have to ask you why are you here? To defend MQM or Taliban? You can do that on their website, join their rallies, recruit fighters etc.
> 
> Why do you keep saying that. If you can convince me in person tell me the exact location of your office, your name and that of your boss.
> 
> 
> 
> There was a time when a politician in PMLN called me and offered a low level party position, lots of women, drugs and a salary. Even some of my Nationalist friends told me to say yes, one of us will be in government and we can start changing things-you will get to the top very quickly anyway. I got pretty angry as I have principles. You can't bribe opponents.
> 
> When did I say I have an office? I have an ulcer and am sitting at home. My interviews are usually conducted on the net or by phone.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and even if they didn't sacrifice as much as migrants it is not something we should preach or say. This nation is for all of us and we are to live and die with them. We take part in self-gratification and say I did more than you we are the progneiters of a senseless ethnic conflict, something at which MQM supporters excel.
> 
> Chak Bamu is still stating you were insulting his ethnicity. But MQM people don't even notice they are racists. Its their mindsets.
> 
> 
> 
> You can be sure I never ignore the post of a bigot. I am sick-if I can stop the bigot from dividing my people-I will do it.
> 
> Also copying things others say proves you have no ingenuity. My objective and my agenda are the growth, prosperity and defense of my Pakistani motherland. My country is my life and for it I will die.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me guess. Kalashnikov rifle, sword, knife, what other torture tools do you have there?
> 
> 
> 
> It does.
> 
> 
> 
> I am an independent journalist. I do not have an office. lol.
> I send my articles to news agencies and newspapers and hope they are accepted. If they are I get some money.
> 
> Man are you mentally unstable? Where should I come? Who should I ask for among 100's of employees, genius about a guy named Mav3rick who is a kid on his computer?
> 
> 
> 
> I am not surprised your children are abroad. You did not send them to India?
> 
> 
> 
> What happens when its citizens begin murdering their own people and the police is too politicized to stop them? Army shouldn't come in. I gave you statistics of how target killing and murder rose since 1984 when MQM was formed.
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I had your mentality... just kidding.
> 
> 
> 
> I showed you 7 cases. In the report there are dead bodies, faces, mug shots. Proof's found at the location of the crime. The gun used and the gun the suspect carried, height and name of suspect, an interrogation report. Everything. You did not believe that... what will you believe?
> 
> 
> 
> Agree. Ajmal Pahari had 2 brothers in the police force by the way. Interesting...
> 
> 
> 
> But you see... the interior ministry is a federal ministry. In either case who told you it was a job of a journalist to maintain information about provincial government and federal government?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you telling me you are in FIA, ISI, MI or IB?  This is becoming ridiculous. MI answers directly to Military. ISI agents, I have never heard of one saying he is an ISI agent.
> 
> 
> 
> How mazloom my fellow urdu-speakers are... holding a governors seat for 10 years, never before done in history. Do you know how many times governor rule or martial law has been launched and during these times the real ruler of Sindh has been the governor of Sindh? Abdul Qadir Sheikh, Azam Daudpota? These guys have ruled Sindh during governor's rule. All urdu-speakers. Sell garbage elsewhere. Its natural Sindhis would get more years of rule as they have 60% of the population.
> 
> This mentality is an anti-Pakistani mentality. You may not believe I am a son of a migrant but if I was otherwise my blood would not be set on fire by you calling partition a mistake. For the migrant Pakistan, is, was and forever will be because for him there is no other place. He left his hometown-only with the word Pakistan on his lips. However the one who forgets the sacrifice of his forefathers is only a traitor. I wish to merge as a Pashtun and have learned much of the language. I wish to undo the mistakes people like you made.
> 
> Also even during Marshal Law the governor gains more power because he is also a martial law administrator and post of chief minister is abolished. So please get out of this victim mentality. I doubt you can do your job with it.
> 
> You are defending a murderer. Ajmal Pahari is a murderer and even the most pathetic observer can confirm this.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you have to prove this when it does not matter?
> 
> 
> 
> See, I explained this to Luffy too. I do not say anything that is outright aggressive, it is basically the person's low mindset that turns it into such. The meaning of my words goes beyond your head. If partition was a mistake then so was the sacrifice of our parents who moved?
> 
> If it was a mistake then they are wrong so I gave you a mere suggestion. You have already killed them ideologically by supporting Altaf's speech which called partition a mistake and wanted India to give us panah as they have done previously by raping our women, murdering our children and killing our men so no one would be left. I could tell you about what happened to some of us in Hyderabad, Deccan but you are a bigot and an Indian asset.
> 
> Why are you avoiding this reality? Its a reality if partition was a mistake. Why don't you say your father or grand-father who moved was a fool and a traitor to India, your ideological homeland and Nehru is a hero who inspires you? You said it was right for your parents to be killed, not me. Stop stuffing words in my mouth to make me appear like some evil guy. Even noble people like Mohammed Farooq Khan or Malala appear evil to Taliban backers and MQM backers.
> 
> What is your ancestral town anyway?
> 
> Note, when someone says something to me (I lost people in India, some distant relatives I personally know) like partition was a mistake it is like very brutally slapping me. It is worse torture than what you intend in that so-called office which will most likely be a torture cell in 9/0. It is torture. You do not know how strongly people feel about this. For me only Pakistan is important. If you really are in a federal agency our country is going to be ruined because of people like you.
> 
> How can you hate other ehnicities while being in such an agency? Or are you a liar reading too much Alex Hawke rubbish?
> 
> 
> 
> It is like you go about personally ensuring the qouta is applied. When you guys are so corrupt and hanging out with girls in hotels and smoking charas in hotels like Sheraton, PC and Mariot... something I have seen before well.... forget the qouta, time to party.
> 
> 
> 
> You did threaten me. Short memory span?
> 
> 
> 
> So why support his partition speech. Do you relent and apologize to migrants? To all of Pakistan for betraying it?
> 
> 
> 
> I really hope so... I hope the SOP and ACT/ORDINANCE is not Altaf's claim that "Jo Quaid ka ghaddar hai woh maut ka haqdar hai."
> 
> 
> 
> None of my sources are confirming that a strict qouta system is indeed followed. If you want I will take your word for it. Who cares anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes exactly... MQM has the most reliable figures...
> The large majority are others. It is not a mistake to feel for other people. Remove this cloak of MQM chauvinism.



We can continue this discussion only after meeting personally as almost every part of your post is concerned with my position at my agency and the role of my agency in matters related to Pakistan. I am busy elsewhere this week, you are more then welcome to come to my office around 10:00AM - 11:00AM, just come up to the entrance, tell the guards that you are there for Additional Director Hameed (ext 6130). They will check with me, I will allow you car park inside the premises and you will be escorted up to my office.

Once we have established my position, we can continue this discussion.


----------



## Bratva

Sultan bhai,,, IB ka banda hay ye, Mil lo ja kar inko arrest karnay ki powers nahi hoti weasy bhe 

On a serious note, Civilian operatives have a tendency to show off their powers.Civilian ko power mili nahi and they start acting macho.
@Icarus is a military Intel operative and he is at a position much higher than you (His interactions include COAS Kiyani). He is a highly qualified. Done his education abroad like you. holds a PHD.

Yet he is the more calm and composed than you. Never lost his calm and blabberd about meet me here or there or from which agency he is from. Military taught one thing, Discipline. I also wish Civilians taught their servants some Discipline too.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Darth Vader




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