# Zhuhai Air Show 2014 - Updates & Discussions



## Kompromat

All Updates & Discussions here.

Airshow China 2014 

*Nov.11 - 16, 2014, ZHUHAI, GUANGDONG,CHINA* 
China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition (namely Airshow China) is the only international aerospace trade show in China that is endorsed by the Chinese central government. It features the display of real-size products, trade talks, technological exchange and flying display. Since 1996, the show has been successfully held in Zhuhai in every even-number year for nine sessions. Airshow China 2014 will take place from Nov. 11-16, 2014.

AirshowChina

@cirr @Chinese-Dragon and others - keep it updated guys.

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## Major Shaitan Singh

*Chinese J-31 stealth fighter spotted in Zhuhai ahead of air show*

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## cirr

*What New Chinese Weapons Will We See At This Year's Zhuhai Air Show?*

By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer

Posted 10.31.2014 at 11:15 am

The Zhuhai Airshow is China's biggest aerospace and defense display and notable as a venue for rolling out new systems. In the past, it's served as the public debut for fighters such as the J-8, JH-7 and J-10. On the civilian side, Zhuhai 2014 will be a bazaar for foreign companies like Airbus and Boeing to pitch their jumbo jetliners, while China's COMAC and its partners will try to drum up excitement for the C919 airliner.





*J-31* The first J-31 technology demonstrator, "31001", has arrived in southern China to participate in the 2014 Zhuhai Airshow. It features 5th generation characteristics like a stealthy airframe and weapons bay, though the 31001 is unlikely to be fitted with combat gear like thermal imaging devices and jamming equipment. _cjdby.net, via by78 at Sinodefense Forum_

*J-31:* The latest Chinese stealth fighter, the J-31 will undoubtedly be the star of this year's Zhuhai Airshow. The J-31 has already arrived in southern China to prepare for the airshow. The J-31, designed and built by Shenyang Aviation Corporation, is a 20-ton, twin-engined stealth fighter, about the same size as the American F-35. Once it enters service, the J-31 would serve as a medium fighter alongside the heavier J-20, as well as on China's future carriers. While the J-31 is currently still in the technology demonstrator phase with minimal avionics and interim engines, China is hoping that its airshow debut could draw interest from Arab nations unable to purchase the F-35, as well as Pakistan and Latin America.





*J-10B with WS-10B Engine* This June 2014 photo shows the J-10B "1035" prototype flying with a Chinese engine, the WS-10B (it uses a unique silver colopred afterburner nozzle), as opposed to the Russian AL-31F. The PLAAF has chosen the AL-31FN III to power the J-10B to simplify logistics with previous J-10s, and the lower costs of the AL-31FN III. _www.fyjs.cnand cjdby.net_

*J-10B: *The next step in China's most modern fighter type, the J-10, the J-10B features advanced features such as a stealthy Diverterless Supersonic Intake (DSI), an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, a cheaper, powerful Russian engine and self-defense measures like electronic jammers. The J-10B is a likely candidate for export to Pakistan, as well as to the Middle East and Southeast Asia.





*Y-20 Prototype* The second Y-20 heavy transport aircraft, "783", takes off for another test flight. The Y-20 is expected to make an appearance at Zhuhai 2014, though it is unlikely to be available for sale yet. _mxhd via cjdby.net_

*Y-20:* While not as threatening as stealth fighters, the 220-ton Y-20 heavy transport is China's heaviest domestic airplane. The Y-20 is expected to at least make a flyby on the November 11 opening of Zhuhai 2014. The Y-20 can carry a payload of up to 66 tons, giving China a modern heavy airlift capability that can service overseas peacekeeping, humanitarian relief and combat airdrops of tanks and paratroopers.





*J-16 Multirole Fighter* The J-16 strike fighter is based off of the Su-30MKK Flanker. Having a two person crew allows for a dedicated weapons sensor officer, seated in the cockpit's rear, to focus on finding targets, managing electronic warfare and controlling precision guided munitions. _lt.cjdby.net_

*Flankers: *Rumor has it that the Chinese derivatives of the Russian Su-27 heavy fighter could show. These would be highly modern aircraft such as the J-15 carrier fighter, its twin seat J-15S strike fighter and the J-16 strike fighter. While China does not intend to export these fighters, a public display of its new carrier and strike fighters would be a clear demonstration of Chinese efforts to build naval aviation and long range strike capabilities.





*WS-15 engine* This close up detail from a Chinese posterboard shows a WS-15 turbofan engine technology demonstrator. The WS-15 is a 18-19 ton thrust afterburning engine which will power the J-20 stealth fighter. While the WS-15 is still several years away from entering service, if there is no display or pictures of it this year at Zhuhai, it'll be a likely star in Zhuhai 2016 or 2018. _Chinese Internet_

*Avionics, missiles and engines:* AVIC is likely to display more models of the WS-10 turbofan engine, along with smaller engines for cruise missiles and UAVs. Perhaps most notable will be radars, which could include electronically scanned radars on fifth generation fighters, as well as precision guided munitions that include LS series glide bombs and HJ-10 anti-tank missiles. The Pl-12 beyond visual range air to air missile (BVRAAM) will be present, other BVRAAMs like the antiradiation LD-10 and ramjet PL-21.





*FD-2000 Missile Launch* The FD-2000 SAM is the anti-radiation (meaning it targets electromagnetic emissions like radars) version of the HQ-9 long range SAM. The HQ-9 won its first export orders in 2013 from Turkey. _CCTV13_

*Anti-access:* The usual plethora of anti-ship and anti-air missiles is likely to include the YJ-83 and YJ-62 antiship cruise missiles, as well as the HQ-9 long range surface to air missile (which won a 2013 Turkish contract), along with the medium range HQ-16, and short-range defense missiles like the FL-3000. Chinese drones are likely to appear, such as the Pterodactyl UCAV and tactical BZK-006.





*VT4 MBT* The VT-4 is a scaled down version of China's ZTZ-99A tank. The VT-4 comes with modern features, including a Remote Weapons Station, and is believed to have made its first export sale to Cameroon this year. Norinco's acquisition of exhibition space at Zhuhai 2014 indicates its continuing push to sell advanced weaponry to foreign buyers. _www.top81.cn_

*Newcomer:* NORINCO, the manufacturer of many of the PLA's tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and artillery, has secured a large exhibition area. NORINCO is likely to display scaled down models of its tanks (the 2014 Pentagon report on the PLA described NORINCO's weapons as "world class"), along with large rocket artillery like the SY-400, A-100 and B611 tactical ballistic missile.

Be sure to mark your calender and check back with Eastern Arsenal on the week of November 11-14, as Zhuhai 2014 kicks off!

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## aliaselin

> ，中国航天科技集团还将以实物、模型、展板及视频等形式系统展出集团公司地地战术打击武器、空地导弹、超声速巡航导弹、精确制导炸弹、制导炮弹、防空导弹武器、无人机等7大类武器装备


CASC will show new super-sonic cruise missle

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## cirr



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## cirr



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## Kompromat

@cirr - Good job guys, lets do this and keep this thread updated.

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## aliaselin

Ultralight 155mm towed gun

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## GeHAC

aliaselin said:


> Ultralight 155mm towed gun
> View attachment 141343


Yes,M777 would cry!
AH-4 155mm

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## cnleio

aliaselin said:


> Ultralight 155mm towed gun
> View attachment 141343


WOW, it's fvcking good stuff ... LOL ! China Ultralight 155mm howitzer gun.
The Airborne & Mountain Troops can play 155mm howitzer guns now.

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## cnleio

New armoured vechile with RWS which will be displayed at Zhuhai Air Show

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## cnleio

"ZhuHai Air Show 2014" more looks like "ZhuHai Weapon-Export Show 2014"

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## cnleio

"ZhuHai Air Show 2014" more looks like "ZhuHai Weapon-Export Show 2014"

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## cnleio

"ZhuHai Air Show 2014" more looks like "ZhuHai Weapon-Export Show 2014"

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## cnleio

"ZhuHai Air Show 2014" more looks like "ZhuHai Weapon-Export Show 2014"

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## cnleio

"ZhuHai Air Show 2014"

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## cnleio

On the way to 2014-ZhuHai Air Show

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## qwerrty

armoured vehicles show or airshow?


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## cnleio

Weapons ... weapons ... preparation for 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Lazer bombs ... flying bombs ... preparation for 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

qwerrty said:


> armoured vehicles show or airshow?


Norinco try to sell China weapons in this 2014-ZhuHai Air Show, at least attract foreign customers.

Im considering a question now ... with so many different Made in China weapons, if money no problem Can China build another "U.S.A" for foreign customer ?

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## cnleio

WZ-10 will attend ZhuHai Air Show again

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## cnleio

Good News ! 
China Y-20 N.o783 will attend "2014-ZhuHai Air Show", U.S C-17 had arrived ZhuHai at night

Y-20






C-17 in ZhuHai

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## cnleio

2014.11.11 in China ZhuHai Air Show ...






v.s

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## 帅的一匹

We gonna rockin&roll

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## Donatello

No JF-17?

@fatman17 @Oscar

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## Beast

Donatello said:


> No JF-17?
> 
> @fatman17 @Oscar


Static display



qwerrty said:


> armoured vehicles show or airshow?


 
Those armour can be airlifted so they are part of the air unit and qualify for the airshow. Lol

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## cnleio

HEHE... Russian willing to sell Su35 in 2014 ZhuHai Air Show, i heard Su35 might come

Just hope Sino-Russia can sign Su35 deal in this ZhuHai Air show, and end so many years Su35 rumor.

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> HEHE... Russian willing to sell Su35 in 2014 ZhuHai Air Show, i heard Su35 might come
> 
> Just hope Sino-Russia can sign Su35 deal in this ZhuHai Air show, and end so many years Su35 rumor.
> View attachment 141934



It will not come true. Wishful thinking from Russian side.

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## cirr

There is no need to waste time on someone hailing from a country which spends hundreds of millions of dollars importing what China can make with hardly a finger lifted：

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## Steakhouse

Cat Shannon said:


> you could also upload some pics other than talking so much....
> 
> don't worry about me man..get on with your show. see if you can get some one who wants some info..
> 
> upp and about ! off you go....
> 
> 
> 
> takes long answering. will do it later. it's not running away anywhere ! laters...gtg!







The Chinese poster on here slammed you good, what inferior weapons China manufacture are way better than what India build, India couldn't get the LCA ready to serve Indian Air Force after over 30 development, what Indian arm manufacture can compare to China? India pride LCA still couldn't induct 1 squadron with over 12 aircraft, for you in here to dis whatever China produce is just freaking joke.

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## acetophenol

cirr said:


> View attachment 141976



What system is this?


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## zaid butt

Cat Shannon said:


> ouch !!!
> 
> ok..



hey man don't make shit on this thread 
china is doing great don't be jealous

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## s.k

does pakistan will unveil jf17 thunder block 2 and al khalid 2 at zhuhai air show ?


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## cirr

Cat Shannon said:


> for influence ! to extend chinese influence. what those $4 trillion can not do.
> 
> see how you control pakistan ! how is that possible ? by selling them arms.
> 
> right now..except one or two deals, anybody who can afford better or is allowed to buy better, buys other's.
> 
> chinese arms sales have stuck to a set pattern..so yes..china IS desperate to break that pattern.



4 trillion USD buys you far more influences than exporting destructive weapons。

China sells weapons with no strings attached。China does not meddle in another country's internal affaris。

China is not out to extend its influences the way the so-called western powers do。China is in the business of constructive engagements。

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## 帅的一匹

The fuselage of J31 is too small, it might be a shortleg. I'm not that optimistic about its export potential.

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## 帅的一匹

First replace that fcking smoky RD93 first, i've done with these Russian stuffs.

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## cnleio

wanglaokan said:


> The fuselage of J31 is too small, it might be a shortleg. I'm not that optimistic about its export potential.


Now it's a prototype, not the final version stealth fighter. How about YF-22 looks like F-22 ?

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## Imran Khan

s.k said:


> does pakistan will unveil jf17 thunder block 2 and al khalid 2 at zhuhai air show ?


sir its air show as i know khalid did not fly

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## cnleio

wanglaokan said:


> First replace that fcking smoky RD93 first, i've done with these Russian stuffs.


Yes, fvcking smoky RD93 ...

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## cnleio

acetophenol said:


> What system is this?


China version M777, Ultralight 155mm howitzer. A special good weapon for the Mountain troop.


U.S.A M777 ultralight 155mm howitzer:







Official ever leaked China ultralight 155mm howitzer (will see it in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show):

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## BDforever

cnleio said:


> China version M777, Ultralight 155mm howiter. A special good weapon for the Mountain troop.


details and price plz


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## cnleio

BDforever said:


> details and price plz


Unknown now, 2014.11.11 ZhuHai Show will release its details & price to foreign customer.

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## acetophenol

cnleio said:


> China version M777, Ultralight 155mm howitzer. A special good weapon for the Mountain troop.
> 
> 
> U.S.A M777 ultralight 155mm howitzer:
> View attachment 142450
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Official ever leaked China ultralight 155mm howitzer (will see it in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show):
> View attachment 142451


Isnt it strange to have it in a air show?


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## cnleio

acetophenol said:


> Isnt it strange to have it in a air show?


LOL ... ZhuHai Air Show more like Norinco's supermarket... right now there'r 6x exhibition halls in ZhuHai Air Show + outside airport, some halls display aircrafts some introduce & selling China weapons to foreign customers.

The "China ZhuHai Air Show" more looks like a "China ZhuHai Defense Exhibition" now. Tanks, Armored Vehicles, UAVs, Fighters, Missiles, Bombs all will display in ZhuHai Air Show =).

It's a international stage to show recent years China Defense Industry progress & export, Norinco is a big seller in ZhuHai Show.

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## GeHAC

acetophenol said:


> Isnt it strange to have it in a air show?


Yes,little weird.But it does can be lifted by utility helis，lol

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## acetophenol

cnleio said:


> LOL ... ZhuHai Air Show more like Norinco's supermarket... right now there'r 6x exhibition halls in ZhuHai Air Show + outside airport, some halls display aircrafts some introduce & selling China weapons to foreign customers.
> 
> The "China ZhuHai Air Show" more looks like a "China ZhuHai Defense Exhibition" now. Tanks, Armored Vehicles, UAVs, Fighters, Missiles, Bombs all will display in ZhuHai Air Show =).
> 
> It's a international stage to show recent years China Defense Industry progress & export, Norinco is a big seller in ZhuHai Show.


Thanks for the info bro,China has tapped vast markets when it comes to military hardwares

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## cnleio

New artillery scout car will display in 11.11 ZhuHai Air Show

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## qwerrty

norinco is cheating. this is not fair to other chinese ground equipments makers


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## GeHAC

qwerrty said:


> norinco is cheating. this is not fair to other chinese ground equipments makers


Not only Norinco get involved.


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## cnleio

S.Korea "Black Eagle" (fly T-50) aerobatics team will attend 11.11 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

2014.11.11 ZhuHai Air Show building plan 






"IL76会和C130以及C17放在一起，大家可以直观的对比下大小了。

关于表演计划，11-13号期间的专业日，军机会在10点-13点之前完成表演，杨村巡逻兵的6架J10应该会第一顺位进行表演，之后分别是毛子的勇士（5机），棒子黑鹰（8机）和阿联酋骑士（7机）。表演时间30-40分钟不等。

在这之后呢，*会有神秘的俄方飞机和中方飞机分别进行单机特技飞行，单机表演时间都在十分钟左右，是哪两架飞机呢？*


14-16日的公众展，上午以民机表演居多，依然是10点开始，ARJ21应该是第一个进行飞行表演的，之后是俄罗斯勇士。而13点之后，开始表演队的飞行表演，表演顺序与专业展相同。
PS：毛子是一天双演。




*两架神秘飞机（其实你们都知道是啥）在公众日依然会进行表演*。"

China J-31 & Russia Su-35 fighter might fly open show in ZhuHai sky.

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## rockstar08

J-31 looks very impressive ...i hope PAF will show some interest in it

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## cnleio

mike2000 said:


> however China doesnt produce any engines that comes close to Russian ones in terms of capabilities and reliablity, reason you still depend on Russia for your engines(and this will remain so for at least a decade or more). So you shouldnt mock the smoky backward Russian engines. For your country is still unable to produce better, despite being the worlds 2nd largest economy and growing. lool This shows size alone is not important, technology/knowledge/industrial know how/historical factors is what matters. Until then be content on what you have and dont complain much. As i always said, blame yourself for your weakness, dont blame others for their strength.


Did West media just report China Jet Engine Industry like that said, behind at least a decade or more ? 

Many China WS-10A jet engines installed on J-11B fighters, to replace Russia AL-31F














China WS-10A jet engines on Naval J-15






China WS-10A jet engines on J-10B







China jet engine produce line







Next 5~6 years when China next-gen WS-13 & WS-15 vector jet engines out for J-31 & J-20 stealth fighters, u will see how the West media lie to ur ppl. Now China were decreasing imported jet engines from Russia like AL-31F on Su-27, Chinese r producing more WS-10A jet engines for PLAAF J-11B/ J-15 / J-16 / J-10B fighters, and J-31 & J-20's domestic vector jet engines on the way.

As far as i knew within Five years, China will get great achievement in Jet Engine R&D, our vector jet engine will out soon.

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## Steakhouse

mike2000 said:


> ahahahahha........ Stop insulting your 'mighty' ally soviet Russia's engines, if you keep doing so, they might stop supplying you with their engines/spare parts, and if they did that we all know all your fighter jets will come to an abrupt end, since they rely on Russian engines(and you dont have the capability to proiduce one yourself yet). So be careful of what you wish/stop insulting Moscow's smoky engines. I know they are very smoky(and lag way behind what we and the U.S have/produce), however China doesnt produce any engines that comes close to Russian ones in terms of capabilities and reliablity, reason you still depend on Russia for your engines(and this will remain so for at least a decade or more). So you shouldnt mock the smoky backward Russian engines. For your country is still unable to produce better, despite being the worlds 2nd largest economy and growing. lool This shows size alone is not important, technology/knowledge/industrial know how/historical factors is what matters. Until then be content on what you have and dont complain much. As i always said, blame yourself for your weakness, dont blame others for their strength.





China economy grown actually accelerated the increase in their GDP, you can actually expect China recently increase more spending on R&D to develop their aircraft engine to mature in short period of time.


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## mike2000

cnleio said:


> Did West media just report China Jet Engine Industry like that said, at least a decade or more ?
> 
> Many China WS-10A jet engines installed on J-11B fighters, to replace Russia AL-31F
> View attachment 142507
> 
> View attachment 142508
> 
> View attachment 142517
> 
> View attachment 142519
> 
> 
> 
> China WS-10A jet engines on Naval J-15
> View attachment 142520
> 
> 
> 
> China WS-10A jet engines on J-10B
> View attachment 142521
> 
> 
> 
> China jet engine produce line
> View attachment 142509




huh............then why are you still relying on Russian engines if what you said was true? lool 
Yes you might have some engines which you use in a few of your fighters, but they arent really reliable yet, reason they havent been mass produced yet. Else believe me your militray officials wont be still importing Russian smoky engines to power your most sophisticated fighters.lool This shows your own engines are still not up to par or reliable enough. Well maybe with time you will get there, but for now, you arent there yet. 

Im not blaming China though, since only a 4 countries i the world have this capability: U.K, U.S, France, and Russia have a reliable operational engine, even an advanced high tech power like Japan is still struggling/havent been able to build one that matches ours/is reliable enough. So at least you have an excuse. however you are the only P5 country/power that doesnt have a reliable mass produced engine yet.

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## s.k

Imran Khan said:


> sir its air show as i know khalid did not fly


i saw here some chines members are mentioning here artillery scout car, towed gun, mbt, are they fly ?  by the way its my honor to talk to yu sir, as a silent and unreg. user i enjoyed alot ure and (irfan baloch, horus, oscar) posts and threads,

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## cnleio

mike2000 said:


> huh............then why are you still relying on Russian engines if what you said was true? lool
> Yes you might have some engines which you use in a few of your fighters, but they arent really reliable yet, reason they havent been mass produced yet. Else believe me your militray officials wont be still importing Russian smoky engines to power your most sophisticated fighters.lool This shows your own engines are still not up to par or reliable enough. Well maybe with time you will get there, but for now, you arent there yet.
> 
> Im not blaming China though, since only a 4 countries i the world have this capability: U.K, U.S, France, and Russia have a reliable operational engine, even an advanced high tech power like Japan is still struggling/havent been able to build one that matches ours/is reliable enough. So at least you have an excuse. however you are the only P5 country/power that doesnt have a reliable mass produced engine yet.


Whatever now China is pursuing West Jet Engine Industry, recent 2 years the WS-10A had been starting mass production u will see more China fighters with WS-10A jet engines, and WS-15 vector jet engine will out before 2020 it's CASC‘s J-20 schedule to join PLAAF.

Maybe u think im talking a joke here, but Chinese were strickly following our building schedule inside China.

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## Steakhouse

mike2000 said:


> huh............then why are you still relying on Russian engines if what you said was true? lool
> Yes you might have some engines which you use in a few of your fighters, but they arent really reliable yet, reason they havent been mass produced yet. Else believe me your militray officials wont be still importing Russian smoky engines to power your most sophisticated fighters.lool This shows your own engines are still not up to par or reliable enough. Well maybe with time you will get there, but for now, you arent there yet.
> 
> Im not blaming China though, since only a 4 countries i the world have this capability: U.K, U.S, France, and Russia have a reliable operational engine, even an advanced high tech power like Japan is still struggling/havent been able to build one that matches ours/is reliable enough. So at least you have an excuse. however you are the only P5 country/power that doesnt have a reliable mass produced engine yet.








Take time for their aircraft engine industry to mature, the west and Russia been in the aerospace industry far longer than China, you can't compare the level of China engine development to the US, Europe, Russia. Late comer will have to take their time with growing pain before it can blossom into a mature industry. No nation can transform their aerospace industry with a shorten time frame.

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## mike2000

Steakhouse said:


> Take time for their aircraft engine industry to mature, the west and Russia been in the aerospace industry far longer than China, you can't compare the level of China engine development to the US, Europe, Russia. Late comer will have to take their time with growing pain before it can blossom into a mature industry. No nation can transform their aerospace industry with a shorten time frame.



lool i know bro. i was just making a point to all those Chinese members here who keep insulting my country as an insignificant little island who doesnt produce anything worthwhile. For they dont know that we are one of the most technologically advanced country in this world. There are several high tech products we make(have been making for decades) that China still can't make or is still struglling to make even today(e.g aircraft carriers). So before they make fun of us, they should think twice, we might be small, but we are still a very advanced/developed country. Size alone is not all that matters.

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## DoTell

mike2000 said:


> huh............then why are you still relying on Russian engines if what you said was true? lool
> Yes you might have some engines which you use in a few of your fighters, but they arent really reliable yet, reason they havent been mass produced yet. Else believe me your militray officials wont be still importing Russian smoky engines to power your most sophisticated fighters.lool This shows your own engines are still not up to par or reliable enough. Well maybe with time you will get there, but for now, you arent there yet.
> 
> Im not blaming China though, since only a 4 countries i the world have this capability: U.K, U.S, France, and Russia have a reliable operational engine, even an advanced high tech power like Japan is still struggling/havent been able to build one that matches ours/is reliable enough. So at least you have an excuse. however you are the only P5 country/power that doesnt have a reliable mass produced engine yet.



First you claim we don't have it at all, then they are not reliable. We know where this is going - when we do have mass produced reliable jet engines we must have stolen the technology. It's amazing how all of these China stories are fabricated. All follow the exact same template.

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## Steakhouse

mike2000 said:


> lool i know bro. i was just making point to all those members here who keep insulting my country as an insignificant little island who doesnt produce anything worthwhile. For they dont know that twe are one of the most technologically advanced country in this world. There are several high tech products we make(have been making for decades) that China still cant make or is still struglling to make even today(e.g aircraft carriers). So before they make fun of us, they should think twice, we might be small, but we are still a very advanced/developed country. Size alone is not all that matters.







Western tech been on top of the food chain for long period of time, no doubt about that even China aerospace would want to cooperation and partner with western country to further their engine development but US arm embargo on China prevent the partnership from happening.


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## Steakhouse

China aerospace industry came a long way to manufacture commercial and military jet for their country and export abroad.


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## Imran Khan

s.k said:


> i saw here some chines members are mentioning here artillery scout car, towed gun, mbt, are they fly ?  by the way its my honor to talk to yu sir, as a silent and unreg. user i enjoyed alot ure and (irfan baloch, horus, oscar) posts and threads,



jee janab as he said
"ZhuHai Air Show 2014" more looks like "ZhuHai Weapon-Export Show 2014"

wesy usualy air shows main land systems ya dosry weapons nhi hoty per ager aik ball per 2 chaaky marna chahy to kon rok sakta hai . or ager humy bhi marny de to andha kya maangy 2 ankheen . but TBH very low chances of any deal infront of china .

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## cnleio



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## Beast

acetophenol said:


> Isnt it strange to have it in a air show?


Becos it is design more for airborne troops due to its light weight. A medium size helo can air light this 155mm gun.


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## Beast

mike2000 said:


> ahahahahha........ Stop insulting your 'mighty' ally soviet Russia's engines, if you keep doing so, they might stop supplying you with their engines/spare parts, and if they did that we all know all your fighter jets will come to an abrupt end, since they rely on Russian engines(and you dont have the capability to proiduce one yourself yet). So be careful of what you wish/stop insulting Moscow's smoky engines. I know they are very smoky(and lag way behind what we and the U.S have/produce), however China doesnt produce any engines that comes close to Russian ones in terms of capabilities and reliablity, reason you still depend on Russia for your engines(and this will remain so for at least a decade or more). So you shouldnt mock the smoky backward Russian engines. For your country is still unable to produce better, despite being the worlds 2nd largest economy and growing. lool This shows size alone is not important, technology/knowledge/industrial know how/historical factors is what matters. Until then be content on what you have and dont complain much. As i always said, blame yourself for your weakness, dont blame others for their strength.


 
Please cut off the engine supply now. We are more than happy to use WS-10 taihang engine to power our aircraft.


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## mike2000

Steakhouse said:


> Western tech been on top of the food chain for long period of time, no doubt about that even China aerospace would want to cooperation and partner with western country to further their engine development but US arm embargo on China prevent the partnership from happening.



I agree with you to some extent. But then again, truth be told, without U.S/western sanctions against China(due to tienamen square massacre by the way) they will still be heavilly dependent on foreign powers to meet their defence needs, im sure they will be far the largest arms importer(putting even arms import dependent India to shame). Soour sanctions against them, is not all that bad news, at least it made possible a situation where they have no choice other than to develope/invest more in R n D their own weapons systems. So they should thank us instead for that.


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## Beast

mike2000 said:


> I agree with you to some extent. But then again, truth be told, without U.S/western sanctions against China(due to tienamen square massacre by the way) they will still be heavilly dependent on foreign powers to meet their defence needs, im sure they will be far the largest arms importer(putting even arms import dependent India to shame). Soour sanctions against them, is not all that bad news, at least it made possible a situation where they have no choice other than to develope/invest more in R n D their own weapons systems. So they should thank us instead for that.


True true, if US puts an embargo on UK, she will definitely need to develop her own ICBM trident version of missile. It seems that UK is the only 5 major power not able to make her own ICBM while need to buy from US.

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## terranMarine

Beast said:


> True true, if US puts an embargo on UK, she will definitely need to develop her own ICBM trident version of missile. It seems that UK is the only 5 major power not able to make her own ICBM while need to buy from US.


 advanced miniature UK not capable of building her own ICBM and the less advanced China can. I think that says enough about how powerful the British are. No wonder some military brass told Thatcher that China isn't Argentina back in the 80s when she wanted to keep controlling HK after 97.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon



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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

cirr said:


> There is no need to waste time on someone hailing from a country which spends hundreds of millions of dollars importing what China can make with hardly a finger lifted：
> 
> View attachment 141976


 
we need a light artillery like this for Tibet operation, our mountain corps divisions will be very please

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## aliaselin

PLZ52

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## yusheng

This exhibition Falcon Eagle 31001, two engines : one black one white, obviously have a homebred engine, might as well say, give you a bigger surprise!





刀口评论：又一次“111” 式的打击_神探007_新浪博客
*鹘鹰歼三十一31001咱们评论的太多了，俺就鹘鹰与F22和F35做过比较，看谁身上鼓包少，结果是鹘鹰的鼓包最少，加上比F22隐身更好的进气道DSI，鹘鹰的隐身性能前面和侧面肯定好于F22。这在真正有意购买鹘鹰的用户与中方讨价还价时，中方可以出示鹘鹰与F22隐身值RSC的对比结果，买方一定大喜过望，感觉占了大便宜。最后，中方还可以出示鹘鹰的后期大改方案，买方就更是喜出望外*

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## cnleio

yusheng said:


> This exhibition Falcon Eagle 31001, two engines : one black one white, obviously have a homebred engine, might as well say, give you a bigger surprise!
> View attachment 143629
> 
> 
> 刀口评论：又一次“111” 式的打击_神探007_新浪博客
> *鹘鹰歼三十一31001咱们评论的太多了，俺就鹘鹰与F22和F35做过比较，看谁身上鼓包少，结果是鹘鹰的鼓包最少，加上比F22隐身更好的进气道DSI，鹘鹰的隐身性能前面和侧面肯定好于F22。这在真正有意购买鹘鹰的用户与中方讨价还价时，中方可以出示鹘鹰与F22隐身值RSC的对比结果，买方一定大喜过望，感觉占了大便宜。最后，中方还可以出示鹘鹰的后期大改方案，买方就更是喜出望外*


I think waiting another Five years, the final version with domestic WS-13 jet engines of J-31 stealth fighter can join foreign customer's Airforce. 

The First question is where the customer who has big interest to buy J-31, and how cheaper than F-35 ? Maybe the answer will find out on "2014-ZhuHai Air Show".


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## cnleio

I smell French fashion on "2014-ZhuHai Air Show" 

China WS-2 MLRS 



> “卫士”系列多管火箭系统主要由火箭弹以及地面设备组成。火箭弹由引信、战斗部、固体火箭发动机和尾段等部分组成。地面设备包括射击指挥车、火箭发射车和装填运输车、高空气象探测雷达车.车型根据火箭系统类别划分而有所不同。（摄影：高瀚）

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## cnleio

French fashion on "2014-ZhuHai Air Show" 


4X4 artillery scout car 































Artillery command & communication vehicle

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## cnleio

French fashion on "2014-ZhuHai Air Show"

Artillery ballistic phased array radar vehicle














8x8 105mm assault gun


















6x6 "枭龙" armored vehicle

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## Irfan Baloch

terranMarine said:


> advanced miniature UK not capable of building her own ICBM and the less advanced China can. I think that says enough about how powerful the British are. No wonder some military brass told Thatcher that China isn't Argentina back in the 80s when she wanted to keep controlling HK after 97.


sir you have no clue. pleae dont make such ignorant posts.

BAE systems is developing rail guns for USA. its Challenger armor is used in American Abram tanks. its stealth drones are at par with American drones and you might not know. its R&D in robotics and nuclear science is light years ahead of China. its jet engines power the Typhoons china is still reliant on Russians at the moment.. this is just one of the few examples I can go on.

it doesnt need to develop something itself when its close ally has already done that for it. Americans are called cousins across the pond for a reason.

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## Irfan Baloch

@cnleio are there other countries from Western Europe also participating or is it Chinese exclusive defence equipment show? sorry for asking because the early pages have so many images that it takes time to load and read something relevant

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## cnleio

Irfan Baloch said:


> @cnleio are there other countries from Western Europe also participating or is it Chinese exclusive defence equipment show? sorry for asking because the early pages have so many images that it takes time to load and read something relevant


Yes, Boeing / AirBus / Bell helicopter / Eurocopter / Agusta etc will attend the 2014 ZhuHai Air Show... U.S sent C-130 and C-17 to ZhuHai, Russian will send Su-27/Su-30, maybe Su-35 attend at 11.11

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## Beast

Irfan Baloch said:


> sir you have no clue. pleae dont make such ignorant posts.
> 
> BAE systems is developing rail guns for USA. its Challenger armor is used in American Abram tanks. its stealth drones are at par with American drones and you might not know. its R&D in robotics and nuclear science is light years ahead of China. its jet engines power the Typhoons china is still reliant on Russians at the moment.. this is just one of the few examples I can go on.
> 
> it doesnt need to develop something itself when its close ally has already done that for it. Americans are called cousins across the pond for a reason.


 That is a weak arguement. UK is not well know in rocket science. It's true that they want to concentrate their limited resources on other area of expertise like aeronautic engine that they leave the rocket science to American. 

I doubt even if you pour huge money and resources to UK, they will not even be able to build a trident ICBM independently in a decade time.

Their Astute SSN encounter numerous problem that they seek US expertise to solve the pump jet engine problem. UK is not God. They can't do everything themselves. And it doesn't mean they will know everything.

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## DoTell

mike2000 said:


> I agree with you to some extent. But then again, truth be told, without U.S/western sanctions against China(due to tienamen square massacre by the way) they will still be heavilly dependent on foreign powers to meet their defence needs, im sure they will be far the largest arms importer(putting even arms import dependent India to shame). Soour sanctions against them, is not all that bad news, at least it made possible a situation where they have no choice other than to develope/invest more in R n D their own weapons systems. So they should thank us instead for that.



"封锁吧。封锁个十年八年，中国什么都有了“
"*Sanctions, give us more sanctions! Years later all our problems will be solved (by your sanctions)*". -- Said Chairman Mao in the 60's. 

The dude went overboard on a lot of things. But he was right on this one. And ironically what he said is still true even today.

When Europe was developing Galileo navigation system China tried to join. But we were denied because of the U.S. "sanction". Now we've developed Beidou, our own satellite navigation system years ahead of Galileo. Not only are we ahead, we beat them in capabilities as well. The Beidou is now considered a "threat" to the Galileo system. Guess what, according to the standard western script on any Chinese technology advances, the Beidou was built on "stolen" technology. So we are the thieves, the smartest ones on earth, who not only know how to steal the technology of an entire satellite navigation industry, but also learn it, master it and beat the "owner" of the technology. With modern day media, lies can be easily repeated more than a thousand times by the likes of BBC, CNN. That's okay. We much rather you believe this fairy tail. It is good for us when our foes underestimate us. But they can't and will never be able to stop us.

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## mike2000

Irfan Baloch said:


> sir you have no clue. pleae dont make such ignorant posts.
> 
> BAE systems is developing rail guns for USA. its Challenger armor is used in American Abram tanks. its stealth drones are at par with American drones and you might not know. its R&D in robotics and nuclear science is light years ahead of China. its jet engines power the Typhoons china is still reliant on Russians at the moment.. this is just one of the few examples I can go on.
> 
> it doesnt need to develop something itself when its close ally has already done that for it. Americans are called cousins across the pond for a reason.



Lol bro dont mind him, I ignored/didn't reply his posts for a reason. When you know someone is being overly nationalist to the point of being blind, then there's no reason arguing with them, since thy won't change their opinion no matter what. He doesn't even ask himself why his other Chinese brothers are quite/silent on this , since they themselves know his comment was silly/incorrect. Just let him carry on. He doesn't know we might be small, but we are one of the most technologically advanced country in the world. 

When they can produce a reliable top notch engine like ours and even build aircraft carriers (which we have been doing for decades now) or a submarine at par with our astute then he can start talking. Until then he can keep importing smoky Russian engines. 

If we had their size/economy then even the U.S will be struggling to keep up with us.

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## cnleio

Air-defense system on ZhuHai Air Show

8x8 type630 CIWS vehicle (Navy AK630 CIWS land version)



> 8×8车载630末端近防武器系统，外界也称其为“国产AK630陆版”。　　摄影：高瀚













CSSA1 2x35mm AAG vehicle (PG99 land version)


> 北方工业研制的CSSA1型车载双35毫米高炮系统，它是我国PG99式双管35毫米高炮的自走型号，已经列装我国陆军高炮部队。此次展示应该是它的出口型　　摄影：高瀚













HGR-106 3D search radar, max 210km range and 12,000km altitude


> HGR-106中低空目标指示雷达可对高度在12000以下,距离210公里以内的中低空目标进行有效三维探测,并对目标信息进行敌我识别,全自动录取,数据存储和实时传输.　　摄影：高瀚
























AAG command vehicle

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## Kompromat

Another critical aspect will be transfer of technology.


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## cnleio

Air-defense system on ZhuHai Air Show

LD-2000 CIWS vehicle (Navy type730 CIWS land version)

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## SQ8

This should just be called the Zhuhai Defence Expo & Airshow.

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## Irfan Baloch

mike2000 said:


> Lol bro dont mind him, I ignored/didn't reply his posts for a reason. When you know someone is being overly nationalist to the point of being blind, then there's no reason arguing with them, since thy won't change their opinion no matter what. He doesn't even ask himself why his other Chinese brothers are quite/silent on this , since they themselves know his comment was silly/incorrect. Just let him carry on. He doesn't know we might be small, but we are one of the most technologically advanced country in the world.
> 
> When they can produce a reliable top notch engine like ours and even build aircraft carriers (which we have been doing for decades now) or a submarine at par with our astute then he can start talking. Until then he can keep importing smoky Russian engines.
> 
> If we had their size/economy then even the U.S will be struggling to keep up with us.


I didnt mean to rain on his parade but record must be set straight. this thread is about China and their achievements are admirable, although there are blatant examples of copying West and Russia but still they make their things work.

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## mike2000

DoTell said:


> "封锁吧。封锁个十年八年，中国什么都有了“
> "*Sanctions, give us more sanctions! Years later all our problems will be solved (by your sanctions)*". -- Said Chairman Mao in the 60's.
> 
> The dude went overboard on a lot of things. But he was right on this one. And ironically what he said is still true even today.
> 
> When Europe was developing Galileo navigation system China tried to join. But we were denied because of the U.S. "sanction". Now we've developed Beidou, our own satellite navigation system years ahead of Galileo. Not only are we ahead, we beat them in capabilities as well. The Beidou is now considered a "threat" to the Galileo system. Guess what, according to the standard western script on any Chinese technology advances, the Beidou was built on "stolen" technology. So we are the thieves, the smartest ones on earth, who not only know how to steal the technology of an entire satellite navigation industry, but also learn it, master it and beat the "owner" of the technology. With modern day media, lies can be easily repeated more than a thousand times by the likes of BBC, CNN. That's okay. We much rather you believe this fairy tail. It is good for us when our foes underestimate us. But they can't and will never be able to stop us.



Well at least we both agree on this. Our governments were indeed stupid to impose such sanctions on China. Since doing so only enables them to developed their own weapons industry themselves and with time they acquire the necessary know how/capabilities to build almost every major sophisticated weapons systems through R&D etc.

We should have kept selling China our weapons and bring them on board in all the main areas we are ahead/control like defence/military equipments etc. Just like with India, thus preventing them from investing in their own local defence industries with all the spin offs it has on other industries/economy. It's indeed a foolish decision the U.S/E.U made. Its always good to create dependency with your rival. So you can better control/know all his capabilities. Too bad our leaders are not that reasonable/have a long term thinking.


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## cnleio

Ticket to ZhuHai Air Show (from internet)

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## Basel

Chinese should be proud of their achievements in all sectors including civil and military.

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## monitor



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## Kompromat

@cirr - @chines tiger1986 and others - Pls upload all images using the upload a file tool. Thanks


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## MacanJawa

hey indonesia is looking for new modern multirole fighter jet for our F-5 replcement program,so chinese member here what are your best product suggestion? dont forget transfer of technology sorry bad english


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## Sasquatch

@*mike2000 *

Stop derailing the thread.

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## aliaselin

GATSS system supplied by CALT




New product：CX-1
Main use is for striking combat ships, but can also be used for attacking ground target. Striking range from 40km ~ 280km


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## cirr

SAC's 31001 is a technology demonstrator，a predecessor to J-21 prototype：

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## cnleio

PLZ-52 155mm SPH

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## cnleio

MacanJawa said:


> hey indonesia is looking for new modern multirole fighter jet for our F-5 replcement program,so chinese member here what are your best product suggestion? dont forget transfer of technology sorry bad english



Sino-Pakistan JF-17 fighter






China J-7MG






China L-15 light fighter

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## cnleio

Dream weapon , HJ-12 top attack ATG (China version "Javelin") on ZhuHai Show

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## Penguin

wHAT;S THIS?


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## cnleio

Penguin said:


> wHAT;S THIS?


Looks like RWS or CIWS installed on a ATV

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## cnleio

China anti-stealth fighter radar (M wave phased array radar) at ZhuHai Air Show, search 500km range

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## Penguin

cnleio said:


> Looks like RWS or CIWS installed on a ATV


Yeah, the vehicle is Supacat-like but I am wondering about the payload. Variation on a single naval light cannon mount?


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## cnleio

Y-20,C-17,IL-78,AN-70 will attend 11.11 ZhuHai Air Show




















A-400 not

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## cnleio

Good news, Su-35 fighter now in TaiYuan city airport next day will fly to ZhuHai airport 

Maybe 2014-ZhuHai Air Show will end years rumor of Sino-Russia Su-35 deal

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## Brainsucker

Btw, tell me the countries who participate in this air show? I can see American and Russian. I wonder if French, British and Germany will also participate in here.


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## cirr

Guys，don't waste time trying to talk senses into someone coming from a country that can't make its own rifles。


cnleio said:


> Good news, Su-35 fighter now in TaiYuan city airport next day will fly to ZhuHai airport
> 
> Maybe 2014-ZhuHai Air Show will end years rumor of Sino-Russia Su-35 deal
> View attachment 145512
> 
> View attachment 145513
> 
> View attachment 145514
> 
> View attachment 145515



I am for buying 48 Su-35s for political reasons。It is certainly a show of support to and solidarity with Russia。

In addition，the purchase speeds up the replacement of aging J-7s and J-8s that still make up a large chunk of the PLAAF formations。It is also a way to balance the Sino-Russian two-way trade that is increasingly tilted in China‘s favour。

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## cnleio

Brainsucker said:


> Btw, tell me the countries who participate in this air show? I can see American and Russian. I wonder if French, British and Germany will also participate in here.


The Europe nations not attend ZhuHai Air Show, but their AirBus & Eurocopter come.



cirr said:


> Guys，don't waste time trying to talk senses into someone coming from a country that can't make its own rifles。
> 
> 
> I am for buying 48 Su-35s for political reasons。It is certainly a show of support to and solidarity with Russia。
> 
> In addition，the purchase speeds up the replacement of aging J-7s and J-8s that still make up a large chunk of the PLAAF formations。It is also a way to balance the Sino-Russian two-way trade that is increasingly tilted in China‘s favour。


< 100x Su-35 and 100~200x 117S jet engines, China has more interest in 117S more than Su35. 

The possible deal is China buying 48x Su-35 fighters + many 117S.

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## 帅的一匹

We have 4 trillions foreign reserve, should go for 120 Plus of it to make PLAAF the most powerful airforce in Asia? Putin will be happy and PLAAF will be happy as well. They shall set up and 117s assembly line in CHina for easier maintenance.

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## aliaselin

What is this? FM-3000 SAM?

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## nomi007

*China Airshow Will Unveil J-31
TAIPEI* — A Chinese airshow official has confirmed that China will unveil its stealthy J-31 fighter aircraft at China’s biggest commercial and defense airshow next week in Zhuhai, in the southern province of Guangdong near Hong Kong.

Known officially as the 10th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition, the event will be held from Nov. 11-14. About 700 aviation companies and 120 aircraft will participate.

Built by Shenyang Aircraft, this will be the first public demonstration of the twin-engine J-31. The fighter is similar in configuration to the single-engine Lockheed F-35 stealth fighter. Chinese-language military blogs posted photographs of the J-31 practicing demonstration flights at Zhuhai last week.

The People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) will be exhibiting the JH-7A and J-10 fighters, Z-8KA helicopter, and the upgraded H-6M medium-range bomber capable of carrying cruise missiles. The Hongdu L-15 Falcon fighter trainer is not yet listed nor is there a press conference. Hongdu has made a special effort at other air shows in the Middle East and Asia to promote the aircraft.

There is also no listing for the Pakistan-built JF-17 fighter, which was at the 2012 airshow. However, Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) will exhibit the FC-1 fighter, which is a Chinese variant of the JF-17. The fighter is a joint program by Chengdu Aircraft and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.

The Russian-built Su-35 super-maneuverable fighter will be on display for the first time. China and Russia have been in negotiations for a deal on the fighter since 2006 and a signing may be possible in late November.

“As far as I understand now, there will be a contract for 24 aircraft plus some spare engines,” said Vassily Kashin, an expert on Russia’s arms trade with China at Moscow’s Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. “The negotiations on engine technology transfers are progressing separately, that is a different cooperation area.”

Built by the United Aircraft Corp, the aircraft is powered by the same engine fitted on the stealthy Russian T-50, the Saturn AL-117S, which is an upgraded variant of the AL-31FN. China already imports the AL-31FN from Russia for the single-engine Chengdu J-10 fighter.

Russia agreed to a deal to build Su-27 fighters in China in the 1990s, but China began producing an Su-27 copycat, dubbed the J-11 fighter, by Shenyang Aircraft. There are fears in Moscow that China will do the same with the Su-35, as well as the AL-117 engine for its J-20 stealth fighter.

Richard Bitzinger, a defense industry specialist at Singapore’s Rajaratnam School of International Studies, said Russia will “sell the engines that go into Chinese aircraft, but not the production technology.” He said it is unlikely Russia would transfer the technology to build these types of engines in China.

At the last minute, the South Korean Air Force canceled participation in the airshow. The Black Eagles aerobatic demonstration team flies nine supersonic T-50 Golden Eagle jet trainers built by Lockheed Martin and Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The South Korean Defense Ministry confirmed the decision on Thursday and understands US government fears that sensitive technology would be vulnerable to Chinese snooping.

This would have also made it the first time a US defense treaty ally in the region had participated in the Zhuhai airshow with military equipment. Asked to comment, Eric Schnaible, Lockheed Martin’s T-50 spokesman, said, “it would be inappropriate for us to do so.”

KAI signed a $420 million deal with the Philippines for 12 TA-50 light attack jets/lead-in fighter trainers in March. The upgraded variant of the TA-50 can carry air-to-air missiles and air-to-ground missiles. The Philippines and China are in dispute over islands in the South China Sea and there have been fears the standoffs could ignite military conflict.

Chinese UAV companies will also be profiling their platforms and equipment. AVIC will exhibit the Tianyi-1 (Sky Wing), Yilong-1 (Pterodactyl), and Haixunzhe (Sea Patroller).

Robert Michelson, a UAV specialist at Millennial Vision, said the Sky Wing and Sea Patroller are “designed for potential military applications, or to test concepts on an unmanned platform.”

The Pterodactyl started out as a surveillance and aerial reconnaissance platform, “but as with the General Atomics Predator, which was obviously the inspiration for the design, the Pterodactyl has grown to be fitted with air-to-surface weapons for use in unmanned combat aerial vehicle scenarios.”

Defense News will be covering the airshow. ■

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## cnleio

wanglaokan said:


> We have 4 trillions foreign reserve, should go for 120 Plus of it to make PLAAF the most powerful airforce in Asia? Putin will be happy and PLAAF will be happy as well. They shall set up and 117s assembly line in CHina for easier maintenance.


China said J-20 mass production and joint PLAAF before 2020 (schedule 2017~2018), this is not a joke ! following strict schedule inside CASC。

Even China can pay for 120+ Su-35 fighters ... when Russian can deliver all to China ? To get some 117S jet engines much more meaningful than S-35s to China & PLAAF.

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## 帅的一匹

never underestimate the Su35, it's a monster. we will have to face both USA and Japan in the east direction, we need 120 of it to reinforce our Air Force. those Russian manufacturers are desperate to get PO, production capacity is never a problem for them.

when China and Russia stand together we are undefeatable, just like what happened in Korean War. J10b is an excellent fighters but still I think the production speed is not fast enough to compensate those old inventories phased out.

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## j20blackdragon

wanglaokan said:


> never underestimate the Su35, it's a monster. we will have to face both USA and Japan in the east direction, we need 120 of it to reinforce our Air Force.



Absolutely unnecessary. A basic J-11B armed with PL-12D/PL-21 ramjet missiles with AWACS support will make mincemeat out of Japan.

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## 帅的一匹

j20blackdragon said:


> Absolutely unnecessary. A basic J-11B armed with PL-12D/PL-21 ramjet missiles with AWACS support will make mincemeat out of Japan.


i'm talking about the F35, non of our fighters is good enough to take on F35.

before J20 enter into service.

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## j20blackdragon

wanglaokan said:


> i'm talking about the F35, non of our fighters is good enough to take on F35.
> 
> before J20 enter into service.



The Su-35 would lose to the F-35. I say don't even bother if they have F-35s.


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## 帅的一匹

Those SU35 we buy must modified per PLAAF request.



j20blackdragon said:


> The Su-35 would lose to the F-35. I say don't even bother if they have F-35s.


not in dog fighter and with the help of AWACS.


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## j20blackdragon

wanglaokan said:


> not in dog fighter and with the help of AWACS.



It's the BVR combat before the dogfight that I'm worried about.


----------



## 帅的一匹

Do you think the air combat is just like you drive a stealthy fighter and you lanuched a BVRAAM 100 KM away from the enemy and you go away with one shot. Come on, its not some video game we play on the PS2. SU 35 is a monster that Even American polite will think twice before engage with it. There is still five years before J20 get mature, we can't let it go so easily.

If you could take out your enemy with some BVRAAM with 100% accuracy, there is no need for USAAF to go for dogfight traning in the redflag.

When you face a Su35 in a dog fight, you better pray.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> China said J-20 mass production and joint PLAAF before 2020 (schedule 2017~2018), this is not a joke ! following strict schedule inside CASC。
> 
> Even China can pay for 120+ Su-35 fighters ... when Russian can deliver all to China ? To get some 117S jet engines much more meaningful than S-35s to China & PLAAF.



117S is not useful to us, we have the more powerful WS-15.

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## sweetgrape

Y-20 coming in.

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## aliaselin

TL-12 by NORINCO

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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 117S is not useful to us, we have the more powerful WS-15.


Rumor said 1st batch of J-20 stealth fighters might install 117S at 2017~2018, my opinion is 117S is much useful before WS-15 out.

 2014-China ZhuHai Defense Exhibition (Air Show) 

Tank, IFV, MLRS, Radar system etc for foreign customers ...

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> Rumor said 1st batch of J-20 stealth fighters might install 117S at 2017~2018, my opinion is 117S is much useful before WS-15 out.
> 
> 2014-China ZhuHai Defense Exhibition (Air Show)
> 
> Tank, IFV, MLRS, Radar system etc for foreign customers ...
> 
> View attachment 145581
> View attachment 145582
> View attachment 145583
> View attachment 145584
> View attachment 145586
> View attachment 145587
> View attachment 145588
> View attachment 145589
> View attachment 145590



This is not true, right now J-20 is using WS-10G, which is already superior to 117S.

Because we are looking for an excuse to help Russia's military industry complex by buying some Su-35, but in the reality, we don't need Su-35 from a technological perspective.

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## cirr

Hello，Mars：






China's Mars rover prototype

中国自主研发火星巡视探测样机首次亮相博览会|火星车|图片新闻_凤凰军事

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## cnleio

2014-China ZhuHai Defense Exhibition (Air Show) 

Tank, IFV, MLRS, Radar system, MRAP, SPH etc for foreign customers ...

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## 帅的一匹

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This is not true, right now J-20 is using WS-10G, which is already superior to 117S.
> 
> Because we are looking for an excuse to help Russia's military industry complex by buying some Su-35, but in the reality, we don't need Su-35 from a technological perspective.


absolutely wrong,we need 117s right now.


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## nomi007

whats about Shaanxi Y-9 
appearance


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## cnleio

2014-China ZhuHai Defense Exhibition (Air Show) 

The Customer is King, here has all what u need

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## nomi007

nomi007 said:


> whats about Shaanxi Y-9
> appearance


 shown in board as a highlighted plane
*



*


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## cnleio

2014-China ZhuHai Defense Exhibition (Air Show) 

The Customer is King, here has all what u need

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## Beast

nomi007 said:


> whats about Shaanxi Y-9
> appearance


PLAAF and PLANAF demand for Y-9 plane is so great that Y-9 will not be expected to export in 2-3 years time.



nomi007 said:


> shown in board as a highlighted plane
> *
> View attachment 145640
> *


That is not Y-9. Y-9 has 4 turbo pro.


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## cnleio

2014-China ZhuHai Defense Exhibition (Air Show) 

Rocket, Anti-tank missile, Top attack missile etc for foreign customers ...


























HJ-12 Top-attack ATG

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## cnleio

2014-China ZhuHai Defense Exhibition (Air Show) 

China export version armored vehicles

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## cnleio

Russia Su-35 fighter arrived at ZhuHai airport

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## nomi007

ok
great
to all *Chinese members*
if u find any documentary type video of *zhuhai airshow* on Chinese media
kindly share it with us at *defence.pk*

thanks

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## Malik Alashter

mike2000 said:


> lool i know bro. i was just making a point to all those Chinese members here who keep insulting my country as an insignificant little island who doesnt produce anything worthwhile. For they dont know that we are one of the most technologically advanced country in this world. There are several high tech products we make(have been making for decades) that China still can't make or is still struglling to make even today(e.g aircraft carriers). So before they make fun of us, they should think twice, we might be small, but we are still a very advanced/developed country. Size alone is not all that matters.


Yes you have Rolls-Royce but what else do you have mike you need to start a thread about your country capabilities.


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## GeHAC

These weapons are enough to arm a modernized medium size army

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## qwerrty

unmanned








rws

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## cnleio

Fat Bird - Y20 in ZhuHai












PLAAF IL-76

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## Kompromat

cnleio said:


> Fat Bird - Y20 in ZhuHai
> 
> View attachment 145961
> 
> View attachment 145962



Aint that a beauty?


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## cnleio

Horus said:


> Aint that a beauty?


A beautiful fat bird, like

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## Sasquatch

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This is not true, right now J-20 is using WS-10G, which is already superior to 117S.
> 
> Because we are looking for an excuse to help Russia's military industry complex by buying some Su-35, but in the reality, we don't need Su-35 from a technological perspective.



I wouldn't mind China getting the Su-35, 24 or 48 of them. Like Cnelio said getting rid of outdated J-7 and J-8. The WS-15 prototype will be coming next year. Would like to see exercises against the J-11B and J-10 with Su-35, maybe even joint air with Russia.

Actually Yasen submarine technology is I believe something China needs, but unlikely.

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## bolo

does any other developed country hold these military exhibition? Seem like China want to show off to the world with these type of exhibition.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Hu Songshan said:


> I wouldn't mind China getting the Su-35, 24 or 48 of them. Like Cnelio said getting rid of outdated J-7 and J-8. The WS-15 prototype will be coming next year. Would like to see exercises against the J-11B and J-10 with Su-35, maybe even joint air with Russia.
> 
> Actually Yasen submarine technology is I believe something China needs, but unlikely.



Su-35 can fulfill the quantity of PLAAF.

As for Yasen, they have some really good design which we could borrow from, but overall China is pretty ready to build the nuclear subs comparable to the Seawolf/Virginia class.


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## cnleio

@wanglaokan What about u think Su35 vs J10B & J20 manufacturing technique ?

Su35 cockpit






J10B cockpit






J20 cockpit

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## GeHAC

bolo said:


> does any other developed country hold these military exhibition? Seem like China want to show off to the world with these type of exhibition.


This exhibition is just for bussiness and little national defence propganda.Develped countries have been holding such comprehensiveness exhibitions for a long time such as IDEX and EUROSATORY

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> @wanglaokan What about u think Su35 vs J10B & J20 manufacturing technique ?
> 
> Su35 cockpit
> View attachment 145989



The Russian Su-35 quality is real bad. Buying this crap will be like sending it down the drain.

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## GeHAC

Beast said:


> The Russian Su-35 quality is real bad. Buying this crap will be like sending it down the drain.


SAC's early batches of flankers were also really bad

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## cnleio

Beast said:


> The Russian Su-35 quality is real bad. Buying this crap will be like sending it down the drain.


That's Russian style, Su fighter has the best aerodynamic design but simple manufacturing technique... compared with West 'beauty' fighter easily cost down ↓ 

China aviation industry learnt good things from Russia and U.S.

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## j20blackdragon

Beast said:


> The Russian Su-35 quality is real bad. Buying this crap will be like sending it down the drain.



Exactly. Compare with the J-20. The difference is night and day. The only thing we need to buy from Russia is oil and gas.

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## nomi007



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## Beast

j20blackdragon said:


> Exactly. Compare with the J-20. The difference is night and day. The only thing we need to buy from Russia is oil and gas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 146007


The days of Russian being top weapon exporter will be over soon.

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## monitor

cnleio said:


> Rumor said 1st batch of J-20 stealth fighters might install 117S at 2017~2018, my opinion is 117S is much useful before WS-15 out.
> 
> 2014-China ZhuHai Defense Exhibition (Air Show)
> 
> Tank, IFV, MLRS, Radar system etc for foreign customers ...
> 
> View attachment 145581
> View attachment 145582
> View attachment 145583
> View attachment 145584
> View attachment 145586
> View attachment 145587
> View attachment 145588
> View attachment 145589
> View attachment 145590



Really cool looking its hard to believe its Chinese in last couple of years China have significantly advanced in military .like to see in our army inventory .

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## j20blackdragon

j20blackdragon said:


> Exactly. Compare with the J-20. The difference is night and day. The only thing we need to buy from Russia is oil and gas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 146007


I'll even add a pic of JF-17 up close. I won't say a word. You decide on the quality.

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## cnleio

Come on, guys ! I didn't say Su35 is a bad fighter or some crap, it's a awesome 3.5-gen figther with 117S especially good at dogfight, if u saw Su35 fly show at last Paris Air Show indeed Impressed !

I mean Russian should impove Su35's manufacturing technique, although this simple process can cost down and no affect its best aerodynamic design ...

Su35 is a good fighter, 117S jet engine much better for China need before WS-15 out.

I like Su35 !

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## cnleio

Top view of ZhuHai Airport (2014 - China ZhuHai Air Show)

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Some people just like to mock Russian made aircrafts, we should have go back to draw some lessons of our pass: our products was indeed very bad quality especial when we want to make it cheap (偷工减料) and still cheap junk that considered by alot of countries, it's good that we made progress in term of manufacturing but we don't need to imitate those retards to mock other nation products...arrogant will only bring China down.

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## Beast

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Some people just like to mock Russian made aircrafts, we should have go back to draw some lessons of our pass: our products was indeed very bad quality especial when we want to make it cheap (偷工减料) and still cheap junk that considered by alot of countries, it's good that we made progress in term of manufacturing but we don't need to imitate those retards to mock other nation products...arrogant will only bring China down.


You are correct. It is the arrogant of Russian media that bring down Russian weapon export. Remember how Russian mock and accuse China of only copying and the replicate is sure a lower grade compare to their 2 decades antique like Su-33.

We are just stating the truth but now China and Russia are allies. We shall bring no further complication. I don't think what we are doing is mocking. It's more like stating the facts. If someone can't take the truth, it will be a more of ego problem.


----------



## 帅的一匹

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Some people just like to mock Russian made aircrafts, we should have go back to draw some lessons of our pass: our products was indeed very bad quality especial when we want to make it cheap (偷工减料) and still cheap junk that considered by alot of countries, it's good that we made progress in term of manufacturing but we don't need to imitate those retards to mock other nation products...arrogant will only bring China down.


Anyone that mock Russian weapons are unrealistic and arrogant, Su35 is top notch fighter that PLAAF must go for.

We can make Su35 a better workmanship if we could produce under license.

The rough skin of Su35 can't prevent it from being the king in dog fight, it also good at BVR with a superb PESA.



Beast said:


> You are correct. It is the arrogant of Russian media that bring down Russian weapon export. Remember how Russian mock and accuse China of only copying and the replicate is sure a lower grade compare to their 2 decades antique like Su-33.
> 
> We are just stating the truth but now China and Russia are allies. We shall bring no further complication. I don't think what we are doing is mocking. It's more like stating the facts. If someone can't take the truth, it will be a more of ego problem.


China did copy the air frame of Su33, why should we deny it? We shall not bend over backward. The most important thing is that we are now getting stronger everyday and we need to keep humble and hungry. Never give a shit about those Russian Media, they know what've got in our pocket. Be confidence man!

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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> Anyone that mock Russian weapons are unrealistic and arrogant, Su35 is top notch fighter that PLAAF must go for.
> 
> We can make Su35 a better workmanship if we could produce under license.
> 
> The rough skin of Su35 can't prevent it from being the king in dog fight, it also good at BVR with a superb PESA.


I think you just suffer too much of western malign media explosure. Can't believe a fellow country man will say that. I will say this is ignorant.


----------



## 帅的一匹

取长补短，博采众长。



Beast said:


> I think you just suffer too much of western malign media explosure. Can't believe a fellow country man will say that. I will say this is ignorant.


Take it easy man, you shall give an ear to different opinion.

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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> Anyone that mock Russian weapons are unrealistic and arrogant, Su35 is top notch fighter that PLAAF must go for.
> 
> We can make Su35 a better workmanship if we could produce under license.
> 
> The rough skin of Su35 can't prevent it from being the king in dog fight, it also good at BVR with a superb PESA.
> 
> 
> China did copy the air frame of Su33, why should we deny it? We shall not bend over backward. The most important thing is that we are now getting stronger everyday and we need to keep humble and hungry. Never give a shit about those Russian Media, they know what've got in our pocket. Be confidence man!


J-15 is not an inferior of Su-33. you must get your head check if you think what China produced in 2014cannot surpass what Russian make in 1994.

China's J-15 fighter superior to Russian Su-33 - People's Daily Online



wanglaokan said:


> 取长补短，博采众长。
> 
> 
> Take it easy man, you shall give an ear to different opinion.


I am open only to real facts and not the usual stereotyping.


----------



## 帅的一匹

Beast said:


> J-15 is not an inferior of Su-33. you must get your head check if you think what China produced in 2014cannot surpass what Russian make in 1994.
> 
> China's J-15 fighter superior to Russian Su-33 - People's Daily Online
> 
> 
> I am open only to real facts and not the usual stereotyping.


Keep it low tune, don't be tempered.


----------



## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> Keep it low tune, don't be tempered.


It better to show off your capabilities to deter your enemy.

Win without war.

By trying to hide your capabilities , you are attracting war not preventing war. And some more in order to sell your product in zhuhai airshow. You need positive media and exposure. By keeping so much secret shrouds around your product. How do you keep to sell? But I believe it's a matter of time , China will change this mentality. This zhuhai showing so much weapon is a good start.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Beast said:


> It better to show off your capabilities to deter your enemy.
> 
> Win without war.
> 
> By trying to hide your capabilities , you are attracting war not preventing war. And some more in order to sell your product in zhuhai airshow. You need positive media and exposure. By keeping so much secret shrouds around your product. How do you keep to sell? But I believe it's a matter of time , China will change this mentality. This zhuhai showing so much weapon is a good start.


 
You only show off your arrogant and not the wisdom of Chinese people, what make you think show off = deterrance ??? LMAO. Throughout history, China's fall was because of bunch of ignorances but arrogances at the same time.

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## Beast

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> You only show off your arrogant and not the wisdom of Chinese people, what make you think show off = deterrance ??? LMAO. Throughout history, China's fall was because of bunch of ignorances but arrogances at the same time.


Showing off capabilities and arrogant are 2 different things. Showing off your real capabilities are deterring war. Faking off your capabilities are inviting war.

If China show off DF-41 with MIRV, who in the right mind will start a war with China? 

It is precisely China show the world that they detonate a hydrogen bomb in 1967 that makes Russian think twice about nuking us in 1969 border war. 

Please do not mix up all this.

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## cirr

You guys shouldn't overlook the fact that Zhuhai，the host city of the bi-annual airshow，is a very pleasant city！

http://image.baidu.com/i?tn=baiduimage&ps=1&ct=201326592&lm=-1&cl=2&nc=1&word=珠海&ie=utf-8

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Beast said:


> Showing off capabilities and arrogant are 2 different things. Showing off your real capabilities are deterring war. Faking off your capabilities are inviting war.
> 
> Please do not mix up all this.


 
Show off alway invite ignorance to become even more arrogant...and when people at the stage of arrogance, they like to bullshit something beyong the reality.

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## Steakhouse

Majority of Chinese weapons knock off from the Russian, to called Russian weapons junk then Chinese weapons won't be any better.


----------



## cirr

Steakhouse said:


> Majority of Chinese weapons knock off from the Russian, to called Russian weapons junk then Chinese weapons won't be any better.



We won't mind an iota if you keep this thought to yourself，and for eternity。


----------



## cirr

31001 v2.0， aka J-21 v1.0

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## j20blackdragon

Steakhouse said:


> Majority of Chinese weapons knock off from the Russian, to called Russian weapons junk then Chinese weapons won't be any better.



ZTZ-99A2, Z-10, Z-19, J-20, J-31, Y-20, 054A, 052D, 055, 056, 071, 081, 095, 096, 002 are knock offs of which Russian weapons?

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> 31001 v2.0， aka J-21 v1.0
> 
> View attachment 146415


If im right, v2.0 bird waiting joint development funds from foreign customers... why J-31 show off itself in ZhuHai ? To attract potential foreign customers and join SAC's stealth fighter project together.


----------



## cirr

j20blackdragon said:


> ZTZ-99A2, Z-10, Z-19, J-20, J-31, Y-20, 054A, 052D, 055, 056, 071, 081, 095, 096, 002 are knock offs of which Russian weapons?



You can never educate those who live up the trees or in caves. 



cnleio said:


> If im right, v2.0 bird waiting joint development funds from foreign customers...



SAC of AVIC would welcome but not wait for partners.

J-21 v1.0 will see the light of the day in 2015, no matter what.

Those willing to contribute to the project and make it a joint effort can always join at a later stage.


----------



## Zarvan

aliaselin said:


> Ultralight 155mm towed gun
> View attachment 141343


We should get these

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## 帅的一匹

cirr said:


> You can never educate those who live up the trees or in caves.
> 
> 
> 
> SAC of AVIC would welcome but not wait for partners.
> 
> J-21 v1.0 will see the light of the day in 2015, no matter what.
> 
> Those willing to contribute to the project and make it a joint effort can always join at a later stage.


I think Pakistan is quite interested in the project, they have a relevant thread in the PAF section.

@Horus
@Zarvan
@DESERT FIGHTER

@Oscar



cirr said:


> 31001 v2.0， aka J-21 v1.0
> 
> View attachment 146415


Look at the engine on the tail, damn beautiful.



Zarvan said:


> We should get these


That's the only reason why you give up J10B, hope those Indians sleep tight at night.

I think J31 is of great potential in the future if CHina goverment could spend more budget on it.

This is like a party going on out there in Zhu Hai, more pictures please.


----------



## Zarvan

wanglaokan said:


> I think Pakistan is quite interested in the project, they have a relevant thread in the PAF section.
> 
> @Horus
> @Zarvan
> @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> @Oscar
> 
> 
> Look at the engine on the tail, damn beautiful.
> 
> 
> That's the only reason why you give up J10B, hope those Indians sleep tight at night.
> 
> I think J31 is of great potential in the future if CHina goverment could spend more budget on it.
> 
> This is like a party going on out there in Zhu Hai, more pictures please.


You mean J-31 yes but problem is our economy sucks other wise if we had the economy which Turkey has these days we would have also bought at least 100 J-10 B


----------



## 帅的一匹

Zarvan said:


> You mean J-31 yes but problem is our economy sucks other wise if we had the economy which Turkey has these days we would have also bought at least 100 J-10 B


The bread can have, don't worry my brother.


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## 帅的一匹

Y20 is one of the most elegant airplanes that i ever see.

Y20's workmancraft is top-notch in the world.

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## cnleio

wanglaokan said:


> View attachment 146426
> 
> 
> View attachment 146428
> 
> 
> View attachment 146429
> 
> 
> View attachment 146430
> 
> 
> View attachment 146431
> 
> 
> View attachment 146432
> 
> 
> View attachment 146433
> 
> 
> View attachment 146434
> 
> 
> Y20 is one of the most elegant airplanes that i ever see.
> 
> Y20's workmancraft is top-notch in the world.


Hope later we can see Y20 and C17 stay together pic, then we can check their difference.


----------



## 帅的一匹

117S will be used to buy time, those yankees never stop messing up in east sea and SCS. Now Putin and Xi builds very strong personal relationship, i believe Russia and China will strengthen its cooperation in hign-end military field in the near future.

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## aliaselin

CX-1 appears, and next one: FD-3000

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## aliaselin

*@Horus *
*can you come and delete some posters unrelated to the topic? Thanks*


----------



## 帅的一匹

I think we have a CHinese mod as well?


----------



## aliaselin

wanglaokan said:


> Brahmos's Chinese brother? my God.


For friendship of Indian and China forever



wanglaokan said:


> I think we have a CHinese mod as well?


No need, we have YJ-12 which using integrated engines and more advanced

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## Steakhouse

wanglaokan said:


> My fellow is still young, he will understand when he get mature. J15 is not just some copy-cat, i hope you understand my freind.





I'm not knocking China used your knowledge on su30 and j11 to further develop j15 as the naval version derive from su family, it was a smart route to take for China to save money and speed up the development process for the carrier aircraft.

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## 帅的一匹

aliaselin said:


> For friendship of Indian and China forever
> 
> 
> No need, we have YJ-12 which using integrated engines and more advanced


while most of Indians in this forum think Brahmos is the redeemer.

VN11 Chariot





Norinco SR-5 Dual diameter long-range rocket

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## cirr

Steakhouse said:


> I'm not knocking China used your knowledge on su30 and j11 to further develop j15 as the naval version derive from su family, it was a smart route to take for China to save money and speed up the development process for the carrier aircraft.



Yes yes yes。You are right。You are spot on everything that you have said or will say in the future。Happy now？

We “copy” everything。We are inferior to you lot。We are no threat to anyone。Happier now？

Now leave us alone and let us get on with our business。

And mind your own bl00dy business。

Will you？Thanks。

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## 帅的一匹



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## Steakhouse

cirr said:


> Yes yes yes。You are right。You are spot on everything that you have said or will say in the future。Happy now？
> 
> We “copy” everything。We are inferior to you lot。We are no threat to anyone。Happier now？
> 
> Now leave us alone and let us get on with our business。
> 
> And mind your own bl00dy business。
> 
> Will you？Thanks。










Why are you so emotional? Nothing I said base on lies, I'm not mocking China military way of weapons development, either China indigenous produce your own weapons or copy the mature design from other nation but this is a open forum you can't expect other not to post their opinion.

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## 帅的一匹

Steakhouse said:


> Why are you so emotional? Nothing I said base on lies, I'm not mocking China military way of weapons development, either China indigenous produce your own weapons or copy the mature design from other nation but this is a open forum you can't expect other not to post their opinion.


Please do not derail the thread further, we shall not turn this into a meaningless quarrel. just enjoy the pictures.


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## Steakhouse

wanglaokan said:


> Please do not derail the thread further, we shall not turn this into a meaningless quarrel. just enjoy the pictures.




I'm not here deride this thread, I not here to argue with anyone but someone reply to my post and I respond.

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## 帅的一匹

Steakhouse said:


> I'm not here deride this thread, I not here to argue with anyone but someone reply to my post and I respond.


Can we call it a peroid sir cause we both are reasonable person? thanks for cooperation!

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## aliaselin

y-9 has come

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## j20blackdragon

It's perfectly understandable why Indians are getting emotional during Zhuhai Air Show 2014. Can you imagine how frustrating it must be to not be able to produce your own assault rifle and China is publicly showing off stuff like this?

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## aliaselin

JH-7A has come

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## aliaselin

Best choice for guerilla

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## cirr

Inauguration in 2011 of AVIC's fibre optic gyroscope production line:

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## Beast

Steakhouse said:


> J15 is the carbon copy of su33, without the su33 prototype China can't produce j15, China didn't develop brand new naval jet to take off from Laoning carrier. Whatever reason you come up with China can only produce j15 to operate on the aircraft carrier.


You can choose what you want to believe. The Su-33 prototype is a confirmed non workable one. This is reported by sukhoi spokesmen. Chinese always do things safely. It doesn't harm to take a non workable prototype as a reference and not necessary mean without it, it cannot produced a J-15.

China aero engineering is more advance than you can think. The thing which western always try to degrade and put down it. They are afraid of Chinese advancement. Check out C919, Google it and see how much negativity the west try to portray as it success will have a devastating effect on western grip of commercial plane market. The west are afraid.

We have the resources, expertise and the market with us. The success of C919 is only us to lose it. We Chinese control the market by state owned. We can dictate how much C919 need to be bought. President Xi fully support this project. The whole China is backing it. Boeing estimate China market will consume 6000 commercial planes in next 20 years. If c919 manage to sold a thousands unit in the estimated timeline. It will be a tremendous success. That is a low estimate only.

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## nomi007



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## GeHAC

aliaselin said:


> CX-1 appears, and next one: FD-3000
> View attachment 146457












Bramos:WTF?

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## cirr



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## cnleio

J-31 fly show in ZhuHai Sky

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## kuge

huh..just knew china also has the venerable brahmos...but the missile in the pic looks like sitting at someone's backyard


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## 帅的一匹

kuge said:


> huh..just knew china also has the venerable brahmos...but the missile in the pic looks like sitting at someone's backyard


I laughed when I saw the Chinese Brahmos in the morning, it's funny!

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## onebyone

Do not argue about nonsense

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## cirr

kuge said:


> huh..just knew china also has the venerable brahmos...but the missile in the pic looks like sitting at someone's backyard



The missile has won orders from foreign customers：

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## cnleio

@nomi007 Y-9 arrived at ZhuHai airport

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## kuge

wanglaokan said:


> I laughed when I saw the Chinese Brahmos in the morning, it's funny!



i hope u have had a nice day.
however i m unsure if that were really brahmos...if true then vietnam can get them from china if it is cheaper


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## cnleio

cirr said:


> The missile has won orders from foreign customers：


Don't tell me it's India ordered China bramos CX-1 ...

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## nomi007



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## graphican

cnleio said:


> I know u don't like the truth... but truth is,
> When China as world Top5 weapon seller for many years, ur country still the bigger buyer in international weapon market.
> 
> 
> 
> OMG ... Does Indian need some "Made in China Bramos" ? Cheaper



Do we know some specifications of CX-1 yet?


----------



## cnleio

graphican said:


> Do we know some specifications of CX-1 yet?


None, we wait for more detail pics after 11.11 open day.


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## kuge

cnleio said:


> None, we wait for more detail pics after 11.11 open day.


i think cirr deleted the "spec" said by someone in above post.
except the speed other parameters r close to yj-62

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## aliaselin

cirr said:


> The missile has won orders from foreign customers：
> 
> View attachment 146728
> 
> 
> View attachment 146730



Actually I'm still waiting for new SSM from CASIC, and they are the true expert in this field


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## graphican

kuge said:


> i think cirr deleted the "spec" said by someone in above post.
> except the speed other parameters r close to yj-62



and as per your info, how much was the mentioned speed?


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## kuge

graphican said:


> and as per your info, how much was the mentioned speed?


no mentioning of data in that post


----------



## sweetgrape

KJ-2000

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## cnleio

kuge said:


> i think cirr deleted the "spec" said by someone in above post.
> except the speed other parameters r close to yj-62


YJ-62 is old, new super-sonic missile serving in PLA is YJ-12

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## war is peace

One beer for you mike well said


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## cnleio

105mm Howitzers truck, Good for guerrillas

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## cnleio

PLAAF J-10A/S fighter arrived at ZhuHai Airport

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## onebyone

Great weapons
beautiful Photos

Good for China

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## cnleio

The Super-Star in ZhuHai Air Show

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## Donatello

aliaselin said:


> What is this? FM-3000 SAM?
> View attachment 145525



Any leads on Pakistan procuring this? There were rumors that Pakistan is going for FM-3000 SAM.


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## onebyone

More pics Please

Chinese weapons made out to be very beautiful .

Cheap and good

Request more photos

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## Sasquatch

Quit mentioning Indians here and stick to the topic. Threads cleaned. Might have to thread ban a several members.

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## onebyone

Chinese defence Forum is not India defence Forum

I want to see weapons of China.
Indians do not want to listen to this nonsense in complaining


India get out

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## cnleio

ZhuHai Airport, China "August 1st" aerobatics team J-10S

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## Irfan Baloch

cnleio said:


> Ticket to ZhuHai Air Show (from internet)
> 
> View attachment 143732
> 
> View attachment 143731


are they pirated versions of the tickets or genuine?


----------



## aliaselin

Donatello said:


> Any leads on Pakistan procuring this? There were rumors that Pakistan is going for FM-3000 SAM.


No. The air show has not started yet. No official news about export.


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## Sasquatch

aliaselin said:


> CX-1 appears, and next one: FD-3000
> View attachment 146457



Ironic and its won orders.


----------



## Irfan Baloch

mike2000 said:


> Its always good to create dependency with your rival. So you can better control/know all his capabilities. Too bad our leaders are not that reasonable/have a long term thinking.


well that policy works well for Arab countries and even Pakistan and India. although India is told to be a partner rather than a rival,. but I think its good that this policy was changed for china beause it has a high tendency to replicate and produce a rip off version of western goods and affect the sales projections, freedom, premiership football and beer.


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## j20blackdragon

The CX-1 is the Chinese P-800 Oniks/BrahMos.
















The launch platform will be the JH-XX (not at the show). Any questions?

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## cnleio

Hu Songshan said:


> Ironic and its won orders.


LOL, u can imagine Indian face when they see this baby ... made in China, and If China 1st step to export CX-1 to foreign nation before India Bramos ... OMG !!! It's a funny world 

===================================================================
HJ-12 Top Attack anti-tank missile, China javelin ... when PLA widely equip HJ-12 and China export thousands to most developing nations, no doubt this baby mass production in China will change human anti-tank history ! 

Cheaper & Powerful top attack missile to against West 3-gen MBT's head (Can't wait to see HJ-12 true face...)

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## Bilal.

Donatello said:


> Any leads on Pakistan procuring this? There were rumors that Pakistan is going for FM-3000 SAM.



That was FK-3 SAM.

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## Speeder 2

cnleio said:


> LOL, u can imagine Indian face when they see this baby ... made in China, and If China 1st step to export CX-1 to foreign nation before India Bramos ... OMG !!! It's a funny world



Ruskies have a tight hold on all the key tech of Bramos - that's the "mos" part. We all know what the "Bra" part is. 

In comparison CX-1 is the 100% whole deal/tech that "Bra" has no clue of. China, just like Russia, even doesn't want to buy them themselves but for export only. Then we all can see what "Bramos" is all about, except "the Bra" and the Viets of course. 

If the Viets were smart enough, they should buy CX-1 with tech transfer, so that they could make a killing by exporting them and some of its core tech back to big mouth DRDO as "Bra" 's next gen dream project, called "Brahviet"

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## Irfan Baloch

wanglaokan said:


> Please do not derail the thread further, we shall not turn this into a meaningless quarrel. just enjoy the pictures.


I was looking forward to the 2 engine Naval version of J-10 as was in the concept art and drawing. it never went beyond some animations?







is J-15/ or J-16 going to be the main Chinese Naval craft instead?

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## Donatello

Bilal. said:


> That was FK-3 SAM.



Yup. my bad, any leads on that procurement, since MBT3000 is moving along....


----------



## Kompromat

So now Pakistan can have Brahmos too? - oh boy!

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## Sasquatch

Irfan Baloch said:


> I was looking forward to the 2 engine Naval version of J-10 as was in the concept art and drawing. it never went beyond some animations?
> 
> View attachment 146852
> 
> 
> is J-15/ or J-16 going to be the main Chinese Naval craft instead?



Fanboy drawings, J-15 and 310 project naval version.


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## 帅的一匹

Irfan Baloch said:


> I was looking forward to the 2 engine Naval version of J-10 as was in the concept art and drawing. it never went beyond some animations?
> 
> View attachment 146852
> 
> 
> is J-15/ or J-16 going to be the main Chinese Naval craft instead?


yes,J15 and J16 will be the main fighter for PLA navy in the coming 10 years. I wish the dual engine type of J10 could come true, but its kind of wasting limited resource.


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## Irfan Baloch

Horus said:


> Do now Pakistan can have Brahmos too? - oh boy!


the hypersonic missile to hit Chai wala before he changes his lungi

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## Beast

Horus said:


> Do now Pakistan can have Brahmos too? - oh boy!


This weapon already bag a foreign customer order. It maybe Pakistan who order it.

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## Bilal.

Beast said:


> This weapon already bag a foreign customer order. It maybe Pakistan who order it.



Judging by how change averse Pakistani military leadership is, I doubt it. They would keep going for same old sub sonic harpoon/c-802 types... Heck by now we should have finalised a long ranged SAM but some dinosaurs still think manpads are enough.



Donatello said:


> Yup. my bad, any leads on that procurement, since MBT3000 is moving along....



None just like a series of report of interest in FT-2000 then FD-2000 then HQ-18 and then HQ-16...


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## nomi007



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## j20blackdragon

More CX-1 (Chinese P-800 Oniks/BrahMos)

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## Dazzler

CX-1 is defense troll of the year for me

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## cnleio

j20blackdragon said:


> More CX-1 (Chinese P-800 Oniks/BrahMos)
> 
> View attachment 146920
> 
> 
> View attachment 146921
> 
> 
> View attachment 146922
> 
> 
> View attachment 146923
> 
> 
> View attachment 146924


 It's a suprise gift from China to India ... impressed !  This "BrahMos" is beautiful.

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## Donatello

Bilal. said:


> Judging by how change averse Pakistani military leadership is, I doubt it. They would keep going for same old sub sonic harpoon/c-802 types... Heck by now we should have finalised a long ranged SAM but some dinosaurs still think manpads are enough.
> 
> 
> 
> None just like a series of report of interest in FT-2000 then FD-2000 then HQ-18 and then HQ-16...



Well, they did got for CM400. PAF knows it wants a High Altitude SAM. Funds as usual. When we procure, we won't just buy a single battery. We want it to be integrated with our NCW network, so we know where our fighters are, FnF systems etc.

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## cnleio

J-31 stealth fighter flight training in ZhuHai

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## Kompromat

Video?

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## ChineseLuver

j20blackdragon said:


> More CX-1 (Chinese P-800 Oniks/BrahMos)
> 
> View attachment 146920
> 
> 
> View attachment 146921
> 
> 
> View attachment 146922
> 
> 
> View attachment 146923
> 
> 
> View attachment 146924



i bet the pla doesnt even want it. look how its treated, no booth like its place in some junkyard and its being exported at a low price


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## shaheenmissile

Dazzler said:


> CX-1 is defense troll of the year for me


The oh so hypersonic..Hazoo mazunga..Indiam Mizzile got owned.

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## nomi007



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## cnleio

J-10S fighter cockpit

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## j20blackdragon

Donatello said:


> Well, they did got for *CM400*. PAF knows it wants a High Altitude SAM. Funds as usual. When we procure, we won't just buy a single battery. We want it to be integrated with our NCW network, so we know where our fighters are, FnF systems etc.



The CX-1 is probably too large to be air launched from the JF-17. But the CM-400AKG is just right.








ChineseLuver said:


> i bet the pla doesnt even want it. look how its treated, no booth like its place in some junkyard and its being exported at a low price



China's best missiles are not available at Zhuhai Air Show period.

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## cnleio

Land weapons will display in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show 

China AR-8 8x300mm MLRS





















China WS-2 6x406mm MLRS, rocket range >360km



> 卫士-2远程火箭炮以其406mm的直径和360公里以上的最大射程，已经成为了一款威慑力可与战术弹道导弹相媲美的大杀器。

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## Penguin

Interesting how Y-20 compares to Il-76, esp. re. wing and engine mounts

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## cnleio

Land weapons will display in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show 

China SR-5 Dual-caliber MLRS

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## cnleio

Land weapons will display in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show 

China TianLong-50 MRADS

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## j20blackdragon



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## chauvunist

Amazing demonstration of Power...Wish you all the best...

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## cnleio

Land weapons will display in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show 

China SADARM and PLZ-52 155mm SPH

SADARM anti-tank groups 












PLZ-52 155mm SPH



















How SADARM work to attack tank groups ?

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## cnleio

Land weapons will display in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show 

China ST-1 8x8 105mm rifled gun

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## cnleio

Land weapons will display in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show 

China VN-11 IFV




















China 6x6 WZ551

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## cnleio

Land weapons will display in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show 

China new FK1000 air-defense system 


> 疑似国产型铠甲S1系统。但是与过去被誉为“国产铠甲S1系统”的FK1000弹炮一体防空系统不同，这套系统只拥有导弹系统，不含近防炮

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## Donatello

j20blackdragon said:


> The CX-1 is probably too large to be air launched from the JF-17. But the CM-400AKG is just right.
> 
> View attachment 147000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's best missiles are not available at Zhuhai Air Show period.
> 
> View attachment 147003



Hi, yes that is what i meant, that Pakistan did go for supersonic missiles like CM400AKG.

Any pics of JF-17????


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## nomi007

all images shows chinese also obtained high standard

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## Muhammad Omar

Man i love these weapons... Kash hmari economy achi hoti


----------



## bolo

Beast said:


> The days of Russian being top weapon exporter will be over soon.


besides money what advantage for China to be top exporter?



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Show off alway invite ignorance to become even more arrogant...and when people at the stage of arrogance, they like to bullshit something beyong the reality.


They become hindus and viets.

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## ACE OF THE AIR

just wondering why there are no pictures of helicopters and areal refueling aircraft. 
please can someone add pictures of more awacs.


----------



## Muhammad Omar

ACE OF THE AIR said:


> just wondering why there are no pictures of helicopters and areal refueling aircraft.
> please can someone add pictures of more awacs.



saw some helicops pic in the start and air refueling just a wild guess maybe that will be shown on the day of start of the air show.. everything is just arriving


----------



## haviZsultan

Muhammad Omar said:


> Man i love these weapons... Kash hmari economy achi hoti



What I am worried about is India over taking us. They are in full gear ahead and we are lost in the question of whose shalwar comes up to his ankles. We have a peaceful, respectful religion which promotes secularism something we often ignore.

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## cnleio

Good Day , BrahMos ~！

China CX-1







India Brahmos






Russia Kh-61 Ruby

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## mike2000

cnleio said:


> Good Day , BrahMos ~！
> 
> China CX-1
> 
> View attachment 147270
> 
> 
> India Brahmos
> 
> View attachment 147273
> 
> 
> Russia Kh-61 Ruby
> 
> View attachment 147272



ahahhahahahah, is this for real?


----------



## cnleio

mike2000 said:


> ahahhahahahah, is this for real?


100% real, no any lie !


----------



## mike2000

cnleio said:


> 100% real, no any lie !



ahahahahhaha.....
Seems the last pride of the Indo-Russian cooperation has been leaked by Russia to China as well.


----------



## Beast

bolo said:


> besides money what advantage for China to be top exporter?


Quality and advancement. I think quality is there to be seen if you compare our plane finish vs Russian top of line Su-35.


----------



## cnleio

mike2000 said:


> ahahahahhaha.....
> Seems the last pride of the Indo-Russian cooperation has been leaked by Russia to China as well.


And more funny thing is, i heard the CX-1 has ordered by a foreign customer and mass production in China now, soon we might read news in Jane's Defence “China selling CX-1 to some foreign nation” ... 

Did Indian ever exported Brahmos missile to any third nation ? maybe no, so this time China will export CX-1 to replace Brahmos in international weapon market.







_Cheers ~!_

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## Genesis

mike2000 said:


> ahahahahhaha.....
> Seems the last pride of the Indo-Russian cooperation has been leaked by Russia to China as well.


The Brahmos is more advanced, though not to a devastating degree, consider Porsche 911 Turbo and Turbo S.

They are both good enough, though our version existing in an operational capacity since the early 2000s.



cnleio said:


> And more funny thing is, i heard the CX-1 has ordered by a foreign customer and mass production in China now, soon we might read news in Jane's Defence “China selling CX-1 to some foreign nation” ...
> 
> Did Indian ever exported Brahmos missile to any third nation ? maybe no, so this time China will export CX-1 to replace Brahmos in international market.
> View attachment 147295


I don't think theres much market for this kind of weapon, maybe Iran and Pakistan, Vietnam and Philippines may want it. These missiles are designed against the best navies out there, seeing as that includes exactly China and the US, with Japan sort of, who really needs it.

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## cnleio

Genesis said:


> The Brahmos is more advanced, though not to a devastating degree, consider Porsche 911 Turbo and Turbo S.
> 
> They are both good enough, though our version existing in an operational capacity since the early 2000s.
> 
> 
> I don't think theres much market for this kind of weapon, maybe Iran and Pakistan, Vietnam and Philippines may want it. These missiles are designed against the best navies out there, seeing as that includes exactly China and the US, with Japan sort of, who really needs it.


Selling CX-1 in international weapon market and earn USD, that's Chinese business.


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## Steakhouse

When did China buy brahmas from Russian?


----------



## Beast

Steakhouse said:


> When did China buy brahmas from Russian?


We made it by ourselves.


----------



## onebyone

China CX-1 is Good


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

cnleio said:


> Land weapons will display in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show
> 
> China ST-1 8x8 105mm rifled gun
> 
> View attachment 147083
> 
> View attachment 147084
> 
> View attachment 147085
> 
> View attachment 147086
> 
> View attachment 147087
> 
> View attachment 147088
> 
> View attachment 147089



There are several rumours about Pak buying these under ToT...

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## cnleio

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> There are several rumours about Pak buying these under ToT...


Good for Pakistan, then let's see Indian face ... 



Steakhouse said:


> When did China buy brahmas from Russian?


Neither Brahmos nor Kh-61, *THIS IS MADE IN CHINA *

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

cnleio said:


> Good for Pakistan, then let's see Indian face ...
> 
> 
> Neither Brahmos nor Kh-61, *THIS IS MADE IN CHINA *


----------



## j20blackdragon

Steakhouse said:


> When did China buy brahmas from Russian?



When did China buy F-22 from American?

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## Steakhouse

j20blackdragon said:


> When did China buy F-22 from American?
> 
> View attachment 147318
> 
> 
> View attachment 147319





You mean China copy the bras mo from the Russian?


----------



## cnleio

ZhuHai, photo by WeiMeng

Y-9




JH-7A




Su-35




J-31

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## cnleio

ZhuHai, photo by HunterChen

JH-7A






Y-9






KJ-2000






J-31 










Su-35

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## 我是恐怖分子

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> View attachment 147301


你们真能挤兑人，三哥要气懵了。


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## cnleio

Im sorry, CX-1 pics come again ...

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## cnleio

Su35 is beautiful, the fighter worth buying

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## Ultima Thule

cnleio said:


> Su35 is beautiful, the fighter worth buying
> 
> View attachment 147356
> View attachment 147357
> View attachment 147358
> View attachment 147359
> View attachment 147360
> View attachment 147361
> View attachment 147362
> View attachment 147363
> View attachment 147364
> View attachment 147365


SU35 is crap throw it to the garbage

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## cnleio

pakistanipower said:


> SU35 is crap throw it to the garbage


What u suggest, better than Su35 ?


----------



## xueri

Steakhouse said:


> You mean China copy the bras mo from the Russian?


Neither Russian nor Indian has exported Brahmos(or Ruby) to China.
But Brahmos is a typical Russian weapon.
It's not an advanced tech.
China figured that out easily. 
Copy a design ideal of a weapon should not be considered "copy", I think.

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> What u suggest, better than Su35 ?


J-16. The su-35 finishing is damm poor. Take a good look at j20blackdragon post of close up of su35 and you will know the answer. If you want to end up like indian su mki with frequent crash. Please go ahead.

Our new fighter jet uses more composite and latest 3D printing which eliminate welding. Ensure stronger structure and less titanium wastage.

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## cnleio

Beast said:


> J-16. The su-35 finishing is damm poor. If you want to end up like indian su mki with frequent crash. Please go ahead.
> 
> Our new fighter jet uses more composite and latest 3D printing which eliminate welding. Ensure stronger structure and less titanium wastage.


Su35 with 117S vector jet engines be good at dogfight, the Paris Air Show prove it. About India Su30mki crash, most assembled by their HAL killing factory not Russian fault. Our WS-15 doesn't out yet ... BTW who tell u J-16 is a air-superiority fighter & better than Su35 ? As far as i knew J-16 designed for multi-role mission like F-15C "bomb truck".

OKay. Whatever u like or dislike Sino-Russia will sign Su35 deal in this ZhuHai Air Show, China will buy some Su35 fighters and 117S jet engines from Russia.

And compared with 4-gen F-22, J-20, T-50 etc, 3.5-gen Su35 cheaper ... u can't pay for all 4-gen fighters to replace large 3-gen fighter numbers, so we need Su35.

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## Shinigami

cnleio said:


> Su35 with 117S vector jet engines be good at dogfight, the Paris Air Show prove it. About India Su30mki crash, most assembled by their HAL killing factory not Russian fault. Our WS-15 doesn't out yet ... BTW who tell u J-16 is a air-superiority fighter & better than Su35 ? As far as i knew J-16 designed for multi-role mission like F-15C "bomb truck".
> 
> OKay. Whatever u like or dislike Sino-Russia will sign Su35 deal in this ZhuHai Air Show, China will buy some Su35 fighters and 117S jet engines from Russia.


the last crash happened on a russian made su30mki sold to india on 2002. 
HAL has little to do with the crashes, please do some research before saying things like that.

*Accidents*
A Su-30MKI fighter crashed on 30 April 2009 in the Pokhran region of Rajasthan, at Rajmathai village, around 170 km from Jaisalmer, after it took off from Pune during a routine sortie, killing one of its two pilots. Defence minister A. K. Antony, stated that the likely cause of the crash was "failure of the fly-by-wire system". The Sukhoi fleet was then grounded for around three weeks.[17] However it was found that the crash was caused by the incorrect position of critical switches behind the pilots and outside their field of view. The aircraft crashed when a critical switch was toggled disabling the Flight control system. Wing Commander PS Nara was killed in the mishap, while Wing Commander SV Munje was injured. Critical switches identified by the accident investigators were inhibited.[77]

Another Su-30MKI crashed on 30 November 2009 in Jathegaon, about 40 km from Jaisalmer after a fire warning.[17] Both aircrew ejected safely. As a result the entire fleet of Su-30MKIs was grounded while the cause of the problem was investigated. It was attributed to accidental ingestion of a foreign material in the engine intake.[78][79]

A Su-30MKI crashed on 13 December 2011; both the pilots ejected safely. The aircraft had taken off from the Lohegaon Indian Air Force Base near Pune, crashing at Wade-Bholai village, 20 kilometres from Pune. Preliminary reports said that the crash was due to a malfunction in the fly-by-wire system. Wing Commander Gurkirat Singh Sohal, the pilot of the plane was conferred with the Vayu Sena Medal (Gallantry).[80]

An IAF Su-30MKI crashed at the Pokhran range during the rehearsal of the Iron Fist Exercise on 19 February 2013. The aircraft was on a night flying training mission. Just after completing the mission, the aircraft's right wing exploded, both the pilots ejected safely and there was no damage to any property or life on ground. A Court of Inquiry was ordered to investigate the crash,[81][82] and later, the WSO Wing Commander Vikram Singh Chauhan was awarded the Vayusena Medal (Gallantry) for his act of exceptional courage.[83]

On 14 October 2014, an IAF Su-30MKI on a training mission crashed 20 km off Pune Lohegaon Air Force Station. Wing Commander Sidharth V. Munje and his co-pilot Flying Officer Anup Kumar ejected safely.[84][85] A court of inquiry has been ordered to investigate the accident.[86] A team of Russian experts arrived in India to evaluate the IAF Su-30 fleet, which has been grounded since the crash.[87]


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Each entitle his opinion, but I just love Su-35, if Chinese AF signed contract to acquire this fighter, someones gonna smack his head really hard ...like this

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## Ultima Thule

cnleio said:


> Su35 is beautiful, the fighter worth buying
> 
> View attachment 147356
> View attachment 147357
> View attachment 147358
> View attachment 147359
> View attachment 147360
> View attachment 147361
> View attachment 147362
> View attachment 147363
> View attachment 147364
> View attachment 147365


SU35 is crap throw it to the garbage


cnleio said:


> What u suggest, better than Su35 ?


it's a 1995 design and if you developing J-20 and J-31 there is nothing for Su35


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## cnleio

pakistanipower said:


> SU35 is crap throw it to the garbage
> 
> it's a 1995 design and if you developing J-20 and J-31 there is nothing for Su35


Even American can't afford thousand F-22 or F-35 to replace all 3-gen fighters, take care Chinese don't want bankrupt ... so China need Su-35 to replace old fighters like J-7 and J-8II ... our 15~20 years ago Su-27sk / Su-27ubk / J-11 will retire from PLAAF.

My words again :


> And compared with 4-gen F-22, J-20, T-50 etc, 3.5-gen Su35 cheaper ... u can't pay for all 4-gen fighters to replace large 3-gen fighter numbers, so we need Su35.








Shinigami said:


> the last crash happened on a russian made su30mki sold to india on 2002.
> HAL has little to do with the crashes, please do some research before saying things like that.
> 
> *Accidents*
> A Su-30MKI fighter crashed on 30 April 2009 in the Pokhran region of Rajasthan, at Rajmathai village, around 170 km from Jaisalmer, after it took off from Pune during a routine sortie, killing one of its two pilots. Defence minister A. K. Antony, stated that the likely cause of the crash was "failure of the fly-by-wire system". The Sukhoi fleet was then grounded for around three weeks.[17] However it was found that the crash was caused by the incorrect position of critical switches behind the pilots and outside their field of view. The aircraft crashed when a critical switch was toggled disabling the Flight control system. Wing Commander PS Nara was killed in the mishap, while Wing Commander SV Munje was injured. Critical switches identified by the accident investigators were inhibited.[77]
> 
> Another Su-30MKI crashed on 30 November 2009 in Jathegaon, about 40 km from Jaisalmer after a fire warning.[17] Both aircrew ejected safely. As a result the entire fleet of Su-30MKIs was grounded while the cause of the problem was investigated. It was attributed to accidental ingestion of a foreign material in the engine intake.[78][79]
> 
> A Su-30MKI crashed on 13 December 2011; both the pilots ejected safely. The aircraft had taken off from the Lohegaon Indian Air Force Base near Pune, crashing at Wade-Bholai village, 20 kilometres from Pune. Preliminary reports said that the crash was due to a malfunction in the fly-by-wire system. Wing Commander Gurkirat Singh Sohal, the pilot of the plane was conferred with the Vayu Sena Medal (Gallantry).[80]
> 
> An IAF Su-30MKI crashed at the Pokhran range during the rehearsal of the Iron Fist Exercise on 19 February 2013. The aircraft was on a night flying training mission. Just after completing the mission, the aircraft's right wing exploded, both the pilots ejected safely and there was no damage to any property or life on ground. A Court of Inquiry was ordered to investigate the crash,[81][82] and later, the WSO Wing Commander Vikram Singh Chauhan was awarded the Vayusena Medal (Gallantry) for his act of exceptional courage.[83]
> 
> On 14 October 2014, an IAF Su-30MKI on a training mission crashed 20 km off Pune Lohegaon Air Force Station. Wing Commander Sidharth V. Munje and his co-pilot Flying Officer Anup Kumar ejected safely.[84][85] A court of inquiry has been ordered to investigate the accident.[86] A team of Russian experts arrived in India to evaluate the IAF Su-30 fleet, which has been grounded since the crash.[87]


Do u tell me India buy crap Su30mki from Russian ? and 200x Su30mki still in IAF ... will crash again ?

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## Shinigami

cnleio said:


> Do u tell me India buy crap Su30mki from Russian ?


accidents happen man to all aircraft made from anywhere. lets just wait for the investigation to complete. maybe this one would be pilot error

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> Even American can't afford thousands F-22 or F-35 to replace all 3-gen fighters, take care Chinese don't want bankrupt ... so China need Su-35 to replace old fighters like J-7 and J-8II ... our 15~20 years ago Su-27sk / Su-27ubk / J-11 will retire from PLAAF.
> 
> My words again :


Su-35 cannot fire Chinese ammunition. So u shall suggest we dump all the ammo show at the zhuhai airshow? China will not sign the su-35. The Russian is lobbying hard for the deal. The electronic inside su-35 are obsolete compare to the Chinese one. Thrust vector are not magic solution. Our taihang engine will be the main core of our airforce with even more potential for 9 to 10 thrust weight ratio upgrade. Buying Su-35 will be like complicated our airforce maintenance and not able to datalink with our network.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

cnleio said:


> Good Day , BrahMos ~！
> 
> China CX-1
> 
> View attachment 147270
> 
> 
> India Brahmos
> 
> View attachment 147273
> 
> 
> Russia Kh-61 Ruby
> 
> View attachment 147272


 
it seems that CX-1 is bigger than Brahmos and Kh-61. When Indian forumners here like to bragg about selling the Brahmos to Vietnam to sink Chinese ship and my answer to them was that China can sale "chini Brahmoski " to Sri Lanka and BD without knowing that such weapon really exisit as CX-1 in China ...I'm wondering if this missile is operational or just a morckup.

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## Shinigami

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> it seems that CX-1 is bigger than Brahmos and Kh-61. When Indian forumners here like to bragg about selling the Brahmos to Vietnam to sink Chinese ship and my answer to them was that China can sale "chini Brahmoski " to Sri Lanka and BD without knowing that such weapon really exisit as CX-1 in China ...I'm wondering if this missile is operation or just a morckup.


brahmos has been tested many times and several vids are available on youtube. can i see the tests of the chinese copy?

oh BTW, both sri lanka and BD have good relations with india. at least on the government level and they are not stupid enough to start a war with us


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## cirr

CH-4 UAV:

珠海航展倒计时：彩虹-4察打一体无人机作战系统亮相--人民电视--人民网


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## bolo

cnleio said:


> And more funny thing is, i heard the CX-1 has ordered by a foreign customer and mass production in China now, soon we might read news in Jane's Defence “China selling CX-1 to some foreign nation” ...
> 
> Did Indian ever exported Brahmos missile to any third nation ? maybe no, so this time China will export CX-1 to replace Brahmos in international weapon market.
> View attachment 147295
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Cheers ~!_


So China export cx1 to other nations that can use it against China?


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## cnleio

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> it seems that CX-1 is bigger than Brahmos and Kh-61. When Indian forumners here like to bragg about selling the Brahmos to Vietnam to sink Chinese ship and my answer to them was that China can sale "chini Brahmoski " to Sri Lanka and BD without knowing that such weapon really exisit as CX-1 in China ...I'm wondering if this missile is operational or just a morckup.


Wait for China CX-1 export deal news ... no morckup, a real export version supersonic missile.



bolo said:


> So China export cx1 to other nations that can use it against China?


PLA has better one & non-export, my friend.

Supersonic missile has high heat and high flight trajectory, it's easy for PLA CIWS or Air-Defense System to intercept and hit down ... Top5 mainly develop stealth subsonic missile and very low flight trajectory to avoid radar search, that's the killer not supersonic missile !


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Shinigami said:


> brahmos has been tested many times and several vids are available on youtube. can i see the tests of the chinese copy?
> 
> oh BTW, both sri lanka and BD have good relations with india. at least on the government level and they are not stupid enough to start a war with us


 
I dont know if Chinese copy it but I'm wondering myself if it's operational or just a conceptual model.


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## bolo

cnleio said:


> Wait for China CX-1 export deal news ... no morckup, a real export version supersonic missile.
> 
> 
> PLA has better one & non-export, my friend.


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## Beast

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I dont know if Chinese copy it but I'm wondering myself if it's operational or just a conceptual model.


It already found a customer for export, what do u think?


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

cnleio said:


> Wait for China CX-1 export deal news ... no morckup, a real export version supersonic missile.


 
There must be a performance sheet of this missile within this airshow, i guess it's not longer a secret, it will be interesting if we can get it and to know if this one is vertical launch as Brahmos



Beast said:


> It already found a customer for export, what do u think?


 
Who is the customer?


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## Shinigami

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I dont know if Chinese copy it but I'm wondering myself if it's operational or just a conceptual model.


WTF?
So let me get this right. The fanboys here for the last 10 pages are comparing a concept missile to brahmos, an actual existing missile that has been tested a 1000 times a 1000 different ways?

to each is own right? found some nice footage that should shut the trolls up:


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## cnleio

bolo said:


>


I add words at above post, the stealth subsonic missile is future missile development , not supersonic.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Shinigami said:


> WTF?
> So let me get this right. The fanboys here for the last 10 pages are comparing a concept missile to brahmos, an actual existing missile that has been tested a 1000 times a 1000 different ways?
> 
> to each is own right? found some nice footage that should shut the trolls up:


 
Take it easy.......I just speculate, wait until the truth come.


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## cnleio

Shinigami said:


> WTF?
> So let me get this right. The fanboys here for the last 10 pages are comparing a concept missile to brahmos, an actual existing missile that has been tested a 1000 times a 1000 different ways?
> 
> to each is own right? found some nice footage that should shut the trolls up:


After 11.11 open day, more CX-1 detail pics come ... then truth will release here.


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## Bilal.

cnleio said:


> Land weapons will display in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show
> 
> China TianLong-50 MRADS
> 
> 
> View attachment 147036
> 
> View attachment 147037
> 
> View attachment 147038
> 
> View attachment 147039
> 
> View attachment 147041




Looks very similar to FK-3 SAM system.


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## cnleio

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Take is easy.......I just speculate, wait until the truth come.


LOL .... u can feel how indian think China CX-1 not real just mockup. China CX-1 break Indian cheaper dream in this ZhuHai Air Show.


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## Hurter

cnleio said:


> J-31 stealth fighter flight training in ZhuHai
> 
> View attachment 146944
> View attachment 146945
> View attachment 146946
> View attachment 146947
> View attachment 146948
> View attachment 146949
> View attachment 146950
> View attachment 146951
> View attachment 146952
> View attachment 146953



J-31 looks bit similar to F-22 & F-35


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## Shinigami

cnleio said:


> LOL .... u can feel how indian think China CX-1 not real just mockup. China CX-1 break Indian cheaper dream in this ZhuHai Air Show.


does a real one actually exist? how do you know that?


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## bolo

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Take it easy.......I just speculate, wait until the truth come.


Don't mess with Hindustan !


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## Akasa

Alright, enough of this nonsense.

Posters need to stop making these rather superficial comparisons to the weapons systems of other countries, especially in light of the lack of technical data on this system. There is no need to induce heated debates over a couple of dubious assumptions and there is certainly no reason to resort to these personal and racist attacks.

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## cnleio

Shinigami said:


> does a real one actually exist? how do you know that?



Of course, it's real... here is official news (but only Chinese)
中国CX-1对地、反舰多用途导弹

从中国运载火箭技术研究院网站发布的信息了解到，该院的军贸产品CX-1导弹武器系统将参加本届珠海航展。如果在展会上能与国外买家达成交易，这也将是中国首次对外出口反舰导弹系统。以下为中国运载火箭技术研究院网站公布的CX-1导弹武器系统详情及技术数据：


*CX-1简介及特点*

　　CX-1导弹武器系统采用车载机动发射，能够打击敌海面护卫舰、驱逐舰、巡洋舰等各型水面舰艇，同时具备对地打击能力。CX-1导弹还可适应舰载倾斜发射。

　　CX-1导弹武器系统具有如下特点：

　　a.突防能力强：可采用多种弹道形式，末段采用低空掠海飞行攻击舰船，进一步提高突防效能。

　　b.毁伤效果好：战斗部质量大、命中速度高，对于舰船目标具有极大的杀伤力;

　　c.反应速度快：采用无依托阵地发射，自动化程度高，作战反应时间短，导弹飞行速度快，可实现对敌快速打击和撤离;

　　d.作战使用灵活：可实现舰载或车载发射、使用平台多样，可换装不同战斗部、采用不同飞行弹道、以多种方式进行对地或反舰作战;

　　e.火力覆盖范围宽：通过弹道机动可实现对40km～280km范围内的目标打击，火力覆盖范围宽。

　　火力打击体系

　　通过整合A系列、M20、CX-1等武器系统形成以通用发射平台为基础的火力打击系统。

　　通用发射平台采用8×8重型越野底盘，乘员4人，具备在不同地形条件下自动完成发射操作的能力。

　　满载总质量： 45000 kg

　　外形尺寸(满载)： 12900mm×3110mm×3550mm

　　乘员： 4

　　最大速度： 80 km/h

　　高低角： 0°～65°

　　方位角： -30°～30°

　　一辆通用发射平台武器配置数量情况：

　　(1)A100火箭弹数量： 10

　　(2)A200火箭弹数量： 8

　　(3)A300火箭弹数量： 8

　　(4)M20导弹数量： 2

　　(5)CX-1导弹数量： 2

*　　武器系统组成*

　　陆军通用打击系统(简称GATSS)以A100/A200/A300、M20等军贸武器型号为基础，集合指挥控制系统、无人机和侦察载荷，构建的完整C4KISR系统(Command、Control、Communication、Computer、Kill、Intelligence、Surveillance、Reconnaissance)。
GATSS具备打击包括军事设施、军事阵地、通信枢纽等地面固定目标，中小型水面舰船/快艇等海面移动目标和装甲车辆等地面移动目标的能力。可实现射程50km~290km、CEP30m的地面/海面、固定/移动目标精确打击。
*
主要技战术指标*

　　主要作战模式：侦察、指控、打击、评估一体化;

　　主要打击对象：军事设施、集群装甲车辆、通信枢纽等固定目标;中小型舰船海面移动目标及装甲车辆陆地慢速移动目标等;

　　火力打击系统：射程50km~290km，CEP30m;

　　快速反应能力：对移动目标可实现3min内快速打击。

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## bolo

cnleio said:


> Of course, it's real... here is official news (but only Chinese)
> 中国CX-1对地、反舰多用途导弹
> 
> 从中国运载火箭技术研究院网站发布的信息了解到，该院的军贸产品CX-1导弹武器系统将参加本届珠海航展。如果在展会上能与国外买家达成交易，这也将是中国首次对外出口反舰导弹系统。以下为中国运载火箭技术研究院网站公布的CX-1导弹武器系统详情及技术数据：


Hindus gonna be upset


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

O


cnleio said:


> Of course, it's real... here is official news (but only Chinese)
> 中国CX-1对地、反舰多用途导弹
> 
> 从中国运载火箭技术研究院网站发布的信息了解到，该院的军贸产品CX-1导弹武器系统将参加本届珠海航展。如果在展会上能与国外买家达成交易，这也将是中国首次对外出口反舰导弹系统。以下为中国运载火箭技术研究院网站公布的CX-1导弹武器系统详情及技术数据：


 
you have more convincing pictures or Video???


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## cnleio

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> O
> 
> 
> you have more convincing pictures or Video???


After 11.11 open day, more pics or video will come ... now just wait.


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## xueri

cnleio said:


> What u suggest, better than Su35 ?





bolo said:


> So China export cx1 to other nations that can use it against China?


You can not use a high-tech weapon against the one who made it.
Unless you have the ability to copy it and make your own version.

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## bolo

xueri said:


> You can not use a high-tech weapon against the one who made it.
> Unless you have the ability to copy it and make your own version.


If you fire at the maker during war time, sure u can.


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## xueri

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> O
> 
> 
> you have more convincing pictures or Video???


Today at 9:28 AM#296


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## cnleio

I see i can understand why Indian member here curious whether CX-1 exist in China ? Too many "WILL" in India weapon project and delay many times, so without launch pic or video it must not real ... but China not "WILL" or "FUTURE" in our weapon development ... after 11.11 open day, then let's see more CX-1 pics and read China CX-1 export news =).


When news out, i will add CX-1 deal into *Chinese made weapons exports to foreign countries.*


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## xueri

bolo said:


> If you fire at the maker during war time, sure u can.


You can fire it.
But the maker can easily jam it.
Even their may have a back door system（self-destruct maybe?） in the device.
For example,American,you know.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

xueri said:


> You can fire it.
> But the maker can easily jam it.
> Even their may have a back door system in the device.
> For example,American,you know.


 
French exocet..is a good example during the Gulf war.


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## cranwerkhan

Steakhouse said:


> You mean China copy the bras mo from the Russian?


No men .. Chines has done military level troll to indians


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## xueri

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> French exocet..is a good example during the Gulf war.


Does exocet made by American？
Have exocet ever hit a French warship？


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## nomi007

still uavs are missing


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## farhan_9909

CX-1 

Range please?


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## cirr

farhan_9909 said:


> CX-1
> 
> Range please?



It is for export, so 280 or 290km. 

Bomb the soul out of you:

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## Sulman Badshah

My chinese friends , What is speed of CX 1 ???


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## 帅的一匹

Said the Russian agree to hold Chinese AESA on Su35 and integrate the fire control system with CHiese weapon, that means we need to exhange the source code with each other. High class of trust i would say! Look at the beat engine Su35 has! The coming SU35 will be Russian and CHinese Hybrid.

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## Akasa

cnleio said:


> Su35 with 117S vector jet engines be good at dogfight, the Paris Air Show prove it. About India Su30mki crash, most assembled by their HAL killing factory not Russian fault. Our WS-15 doesn't out yet ... BTW who tell u J-16 is a air-superiority fighter & better than Su35 ? As far as i knew J-16 designed for multi-role mission like F-15C "bomb truck".



Don't be so rash as to jump to conclusions. The capabilities of an aircraft and its potential to succeed in a certain geopolitical environment entail far more than merely its ability to dogfight, which itself hinges on multiple variables not limited to thrust vectoring.

Moreover, the F-15C isn't a bomb truck; it is designed solely to take down enemy air assets, and hence the phrase "not a pound of air to ground" that's commonly associated with it.



cnleio said:


> OKay. Whatever u like or dislike Sino-Russia will sign Su35 deal in this ZhuHai Air Show, China will buy some Su35 fighters and 117S jet engines from Russia.



Are you the leader of China's procurement team, or is this some wishful thinking on your part?



cnleio said:


> And compared with 4-gen F-22, J-20, T-50 etc, 3.5-gen Su35 cheaper ... u can't pay for all 4-gen fighters to replace large 3-gen fighter numbers, so we need Su35.



Are the Chinese to assume that purchasing from Sukhoi is the only option to compensate for the high price of 5th generation fighters?

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## 帅的一匹

China and Russia is getting closer, we are ally under the table.

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## Akasa

wanglaokan said:


> Said the Russian agree to hold Chinese AESA on Su35 and integrate the fire control system with CHiese weapon, that means we need to exhange the source code with each other. High class of trust i would say! Look at the beat engine Su35 has! The coming SU35 will be Russian and CHinese Hybrid.



Then what is the point of the Su-35 other than supposedly the engine? A country's air force simply won't spend money on an entire class of technology if they want only one sector of it. If the Chinese are even reluctant to modernize their forces with the equipment that they are currently exporting, what makes you think they would be willing to do so with an aircraft which brings more redundancies and potential nuisances than whatever benefits its engine will offer?

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## 帅的一匹

Beast said:


> J-16. The su-35 finishing is damm poor. Take a good look at j20blackdragon post of close up of su35 and you will know the answer. If you want to end up like indian su mki with frequent crash. Please go ahead.
> 
> Our new fighter jet uses more composite and latest 3D printing which eliminate welding. Ensure stronger structure and less titanium wastage.


跟你说了多少次了低调点，别整天牛逼哄哄的。老毛子的武器是糙点，但战斗力是实实在在的。China fighter has very good workmanship, we still need some Russian top notch to meet the stop gap. We are strategic partnership.


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## cirr

Type H631 and H660 WIGs：

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## 帅的一匹

SinoSoldier said:


> Then what is the point of the Su-35 other than the engine? A country's air force simply won't spend money on an entire class of technology if they want only one sector of it. If the Chinese are even reluctant to modernize their forces with the equipment that they are currently exporting, what makes you think they would be willing to do so with an aircraft which brings more redundancies and potential nuisances than whatever benefits its engine will offer?


They won't transer the engine tech unless we bought some SU35, its binding contract. Though su35 is the last type of figter China will buy from Russia.

It still have 5 years before WS15 get matured, we have to buy time.

you don't agree that su35 is the best fighter RUAAF has in its inventory until now ?


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## Akasa

wanglaokan said:


> They won't transer the engine tech unless we bought some SU35, its binding contract. Though su35 is the last type of figter China will buy from Russia.



I'd like to see some concrete evidence that the Russians won't offer the 117S without the full Su-35 agreement.

Secondly and mainly, what makes people think that the 117S engines are of such critical value that the Chinese are willing to spend a horridly disproportionate amount of money and effort on procuring them, all at the risk of logistical issues and potential integration problems?

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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> 跟你说了多少次了低调点，别整天牛逼哄哄的。老毛子的武器是糙点，但战斗力是实实在在的。China fighter has very good workmanship, we still need some Russian top notch to meet the stop gap. We are strategic partnership.


What is so called top notch and what is the so called firepower of su-35 that is so impressive? The Russian electronic sector is lacking behind China. No ways China tax money spend on it.

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## 帅的一匹

One of the most intrepid fighters in the planet of its class.



SinoSoldier said:


> I'd like to see some concrete evidence that the Russians won't offer the 117S without the full Su-35 agreement.
> 
> Secondly and mainly, what makes people think that the 117S engines are of such critical value that the Chinese are willing to spend a horridly disproportionate amount of money and effort on procuring them, all at the risk of logistical issues and potential integration problems?


Russia won't double cross China. If CHina is down, Russia gone.

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## Akasa

wanglaokan said:


> China and Russia is getting closer, we are ally under the table.



Let's face it; the real "binding" interests between Russia and China are their mutual wariness of US presence in the Pacific Rim and their energy deals (which provides China a stable supply of hydrocarbons amid South China Sea tensions and Russia a persisting supply of cash in the face of Western-backed, Arab-instigated oil price fluctuations).



wanglaokan said:


> One of the most intrepid fighters in the planet of its class.
> 
> 
> Russia won't double cross China. If CHina is down, Russia gone.



Again, is there concrete evidence or is this simply online hearsay?

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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> China and Russia is getting closer, we are ally under the table.


The Russian must look at China as equal partners for an allies to work. If they are willing to procure type054A frigate and China LHD075, China will be willing to buy Su-35 fighters.

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## 帅的一匹

老毛子不是好东西，但是对中国来说现在就是三国鼎立。政治是现实的，中国一但倒台毛子就完了。完全没有战略生存空间了！



Beast said:


> The Russian must look at China as equal partners for an allies to work. If they are willing to procure type054A frigate and China LHD075, China will be willing to buy Su-35 fighters.


老毛子是死要面子活受罪，看他们还能撑多久！

现在是中国的战略机遇期也是风险期，赶紧趁机会搞点干货出来。你以为老毛子喜欢中国人，形势所迫身不由己。等我们的WS15成熟了，就让他们滚蛋！

我们自己的WS10G是备胎（动力不足以支持超巡），不怕老毛子耍我们。

中国人是世界上最聪明和实际的民族，老毛子也知道！

中国的武器在制作工艺上确实不错，但在创新和工程整合能力方面还是稍逊一筹。人家的SU35是糙，但是空军那帮人就是流口水啊！

从第五代战机来看，老毛子的技术储备确实已经大不如前了。但是4.5代还是有点干货的。那个啥FGFA的纯粹忽悠阿三钱的，跟20差远了.

不骄傲不自卑，中国航空大有希望！

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## 帅的一匹

印度现在和美国走得太近，总有一天要翻跟头。尼玛那个CX-1真是笑死人了。阿三以为的高端货在我们这只能出口骗外汇啊！



Beast said:


> What is so called top notch and what is the so called firepower of su-35 that is so impressive? The Russian electronic sector is lacking behind China. No ways China tax money spend on it.


我说中国会买SU35，你输了叫我一声哥。

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## cirr

Submarine launched missiles CM-708UN and CM-708UNA：

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## 帅的一匹

有空买点军工股，肯定涨啊！


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## cirr

Other missiles on display：





































More missiles and bombs on display：

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## Kinetic

cnleio said:


> I smell French fashion on "2014-ZhuHai Air Show"
> 
> China WS-2 MLRS
> 
> 
> View attachment 143646
> 
> View attachment 143647
> 
> View attachment 143648
> 
> View attachment 143649
> 
> View attachment 143650
> 
> View attachment 143652



Whats this missile? Any spec?


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## rcrmj

wanglaokan said:


> 老毛子不是好东西，但是对中国来说现在就是三国鼎立。政治是现实的，中国一但倒台毛子就完了。完全没有战略生存空间了！
> 
> 
> 老毛子是死要面子活受罪，看他们还能撑多久！
> 
> 现在是中国的战略机遇期也是风险期，赶紧趁机会搞点干货出来。你以为老毛子喜欢中国人，形势所迫身不由己。等我们的WS15成熟了，就让他们滚蛋！
> 
> 我们自己的WS10G是备胎（动力不足以支持超巡），不怕老毛子耍我们。
> 
> 中国人是世界上最聪明和实际的民族，老毛子也知道！
> 
> 中国的武器在制作工艺上确实不错，但在创新和工程整合能力方面还是稍逊一筹。人家的SU35是糙，但是空军那帮人就是流口水啊！
> 
> 从第五代战机来看，老毛子的技术储备确实已经大不如前了。但是4.5代还是有点干货的。那个啥FGFA的纯粹忽悠阿三钱的，跟20差远了.
> 
> 不骄傲不自卑，中国航空大有希望！


谁跟你说空军流Su-35的口水了？
我们是可买可不买，现在急的是毛子

多多关注超大里面的一个神贴吧···不是大神的贴子，是一个航母上的技术人员···

歼15的真实挂载能力。。。。。。。。。。-海军版-超级大本营军事论坛-最具影响力军事论坛 - check this thread out, it has more PLAN and PLA info than any speculations combined!

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## cirr

And more：

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## Kinetic

*Y20 is really impressive.* 

Varieties of land systems.

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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> 老毛子不是好东西，但是对中国来说现在就是三国鼎立。政治是现实的，中国一但倒台毛子就完了。完全没有战略生存空间了！
> 
> 
> 老毛子是死要面子活受罪，看他们还能撑多久！
> 
> 现在是中国的战略机遇期也是风险期，赶紧趁机会搞点干货出来。你以为老毛子喜欢中国人，形势所迫身不由己。等我们的WS15成熟了，就让他们滚蛋！
> 
> 我们自己的WS10G是备胎（动力不足以支持超巡），不怕老毛子耍我们。
> 
> 中国人是世界上最聪明和实际的民族，老毛子也知道！
> 
> 中国的武器在制作工艺上确实不错，但在创新和工程整合能力方面还是稍逊一筹。人家的SU35是糙，但是空军那帮人就是流口水啊！
> 
> 从第五代战机来看，老毛子的技术储备确实已经大不如前了。但是4.5代还是有点干货的。那个啥FGFA的纯粹忽悠阿三钱的，跟20差远了.
> 
> 不骄傲不自卑，中国航空大有希望！



If Russian has so much pride, they will not buy French mistral LHD in the first place. Which proves to be disaster now as French is not willing to release the ship. Russian are practical people, they do know US is still the biggest threat than China. I can foresee if Russian wanted to build a navy on budget that can pose certain threat to US. They need to look forward China. China can offer them what the European can't maych in term of price and technology.

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## Kinetic

shaheenmissile said:


> The oh so hypersonic..Hazoo mazunga..Indiam Mizzile got owned.



See who is talking!!


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## Beast

The CX-1 missile looks too big to be load on by any combat aircraft except strategic bomber like H-6 or Tu-22M3/Tu-95.


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## cirr

FADEC

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## cirr

Updated: Friday November 7, 2014 MYT 10:42:57 AM

*China looking to develop big passenger plane*

SHANGHAI, Nov 07, 2014 (AFP) - *China is seeking suppliers to develop its own wide-body passenger plane over the next decade*, industry executives told AFP, expanding its ambitions and rivalry with Boeing and Airbus.

The proposed aircraft - tentatively called the *C929* - would be state-backed Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China (COMAC)'s largest, according to suppliers that have held discussions with the firm.

It would be a substantial advance on the smaller 158-168 seat narrow-body C919 it is currently developing and the 78-90 seat ARJ21 regional jet, which is undergoing test flights.

*The goal is for the C929 - which could carry several hundred passengers at a time on journeys across Asia - to take flight after 2020, possibly in 2023*.

COMAC's ambitions will be on parade at China's premier airshow, which opens Tuesday in the southern city of Zhuhai, with a huge stand highlighting the C919 and a flying display by a prototype ARJ21.

The technological challenges for China to build its own passenger plane are formidable, with some comparing them to the difficulty of sending a mission to the moon.

But the government considers developing a passenger aircraft industry a national priority that would vault it into an elite club of just a handful of nations.

At the same time Russia has drawn closer to its ally China in the face of Western sanctions over Ukraine and following two years of discussions, the two countries signed an agreement in May to develop what Chinese state media call the "big plane".

COMAC's strategic partner for the C929 is Russia's United Aircraft Corp., created in 2006 when Moscow combined the assets of the country's largest state-owned aircraft manufacturers, which have decades of experience.

"Russia and China have been working together, figuring out things, now they're ready to start talking and getting ideas from suppliers," said Briand Greer, president of aerospace for Asia-Pacific for US firm Honeywell, which already provides components and systems for both the C919 and ARJ21.

COMAC is floating ideas about the design of the plane ahead of making formal information requests to prepare a tendering process, industry sources said.

"We have been talking about this new project, the 929," said another supplier to the C919, who declined to be named.

"*They have started with design of the plane*. They are talking beyond 2020 (for the launch)," he said.

One possibility for the wide-body - which has two passenger aisles - is a plane capable of flying within Asia for journeys of up to around five hours, industry officials said, but not for lengthy intercontinental flights of 12 to 14 hours.

National agenda

Such a concept would compete with the planned regional version of the Airbus A330, they said, which will enter service early next year. Planes in the A330 family hold 200-400 passengers.

Boeing's wide-body offerings include its 767 and 787.

COMAC did not respond to requests for comment by AFP.

China has dreamed of building its own civil aircraft since the 1970s when Jiang Qing, Mao Zedong's wife and a member of the notorious "Gang of Four", personally backed the attempt to develop the Y-10. Only three of the lumbering planes were ever built.

But with its deep pockets China can now tap foreign companies, some of them already suppliers to Boeing and Airbus.

The C919, which has a range of up to 5,555 kilometres (3,444 miles), is scheduled to make its first test flight at the end of next year, with deliveries planned for 2018, according to state media, although some doubt the company will meet the target.

"It's a national agenda, it's going to happen," Greer said of the C919. "Timing - we'll see."

Its engines are made by CFM International, a venture between France's Safran group and US industrial giant General Electric (GE). COMAC has 400 orders for the C919, most from domestic customers with the exception of GE Capital Aviation Services - a subsidiary of GE.

The ARJ21 regional jet claims 253 orders but the project is years behind schedule, with deliveries originally due in 2009.

COMAC plans to certify the ARJ with China's own civil aviation authority before year-end but approval from the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is necessary before it can fly in most countries.

The C919 has just started being assembled at a sprawling complex next to Shanghai's Pudong Airport, where workers in blue uniforms fit together pieces of the fuselage, industry officials and media reports say.

*Elsewhere on the vast tract of land, COMAC planners have already reserved space for a yet-unbuilt factory to house the C929.*

China looking to develop big passenger plane - Regional | The Star Online

Source: China looking to develop big passenger plane C929

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## 帅的一匹

Beast said:


> 说真话和吹大牛是不一样的。


看法不同，随你。

中国空军对117S肯定是有兴趣的，否则政治关系再好也不会买35的。装上就能超巡，谁不想要？

关键还是发动机

如果现在把毛子的生意一刀切，看战时的时候谁来帮忙。做事情不能太绝，要留后手。


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## Winchester

Nice thread 
Got me through my class

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## 帅的一匹

军事是服从于政治的，不能光从纯军事的角度去看待问题。没必要把PDF弄的一片祥和，粉饰太平。说了你也不明白。。。。

尼玛弄的好像老子不爱国一样，实在是太吊了。

点到为止，不想伤了和气。

more picture please

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## Zarvan

haviZsultan said:


> What I am worried about is India over taking us. They are in full gear ahead and we are lost in the question of whose shalwar comes up to his ankles. We have a peaceful, respectful religion which promotes secularism something we often ignore.


Sir please stay on topic and Islam is no where close to secularism Islam is completely opposite to seculars and according to ALLAH and his PROPHET SAW that shalwar thing is also an issue those early Muslims who made scientific achievements also made sure they follow these things.
As for topic yes our economy sucks other wise there are number of things we can or should have bought for Air Force J-10 B along with Missiles for Army different type of MLRS along with few IFV and some new Armored Vehicles as for Navy 4 to 8 Frigates including Type 54 and also few Submarines


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## 帅的一匹

@vostok, Russians are our ally. Please ignore the comments from others.

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> There are several rumours about Pak buying these under ToT...


Well that is good thing it can be good Anti Tank weapons and also easy to use against Militants


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## xueri

wanglaokan said:


> 看法不同，随你。
> 
> 中国空军对117S肯定是有兴趣的，否则政治关系再好也不会买35的。装上就能超巡，谁不想要？
> 
> 关键还是发动机
> 
> 如果现在把毛子的生意一刀切，看战时的时候谁来帮忙。做事情不能太绝，要留后手。


你不一刀切毛子也未必帮忙
你看今天毛子不就派巡洋舰到南海演习了


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## 帅的一匹

xueri said:


> 你不一刀切毛子也未必帮忙
> 你看今天毛子不就派巡洋舰到南海演习了


人家就去了，你能咋地？不是毛子太狠，是共军太无能。人家有油田在那里，去你也没办法。这个事情国防部肯定是知道的。说句实在话，毛子确实够狠。老习和普金多打交道肯定能提高。


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## 帅的一匹

SR5 Had been sold to UAE 2 years ago, it's rising star in the long range multiple rocket launcher market. Pakistan will consider it in the future?

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## cirr

I wish they would bring in more UAVs：

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## nomi007

cirr said:


> It is for export, so 280 or 290km.
> 
> Bomb the soul out of you:
> 
> View attachment 147462


Photo of an AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon mounted on a FA-18


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## vostok

wanglaokan said:


> @vostok, Russians are our ally. Please ignore the comments from others.


I look only at the pictures. But thanks anyway.

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## Malik Alashter

I wonder why Russia is good in engines but not electronics.

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## Beast

Malik Alashter said:


> I wonder why Russia is good in engines but not electronics.


Becos you need continue investment in electronic infrastruture(like telecommunication) and continue to nurture your own pool of talents(University/research) which needs money and resources. China is now having a boom and sitting with huge surplus.

In fact, China is not that weak in engines. A lot of propulsion system has achieved breakthru like our coming debut YF-100 engines for CZ-5 new generation heavy rocket.

W-9 engine for WZ-10 attack helo and more powerful W-16 turboshaft has just enter service.

New generation of turbine propulsion ship engine like QC-280M equal US LM-2500.

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## BoQ77

Is there only one prototype of J31 the 001 ?
Y-20 still with Russian engine ?


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## cnleio

Kinetic said:


> Whats this missile? Any spec?


That is not a missile, it's a 406mm rocket for WS-2 MLRS ... ... rocket fire range >360km. See Page18 #260 more details.



> 卫士-2远程火箭炮以其406mm的直径和360公里以上的最大射程，已经成为了一款威慑力可与战术弹道导弹相媲美的大杀器。




Wiki：China WeiShi Rockets

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## Kinetic

cnleio said:


> That is not a missile, it's a 406mm rocket for WS-2 MLRS ... ... rocket fire range >360km. See Page18 #260 more details.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiki：China WeiShi Rockets




Thanks.



Stealth said:


> This thread BLASTED Indian LOLZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz




A cheerleader is always a cheerleader!


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## cnleio

SinoSoldier said:


> Don't be so rash as to jump to conclusions. The capabilities of an aircraft and its potential to succeed in a certain geopolitical environment entail far more than merely its ability to dogfight, which itself hinges on multiple variables not limited to thrust vectoring.
> 
> Moreover, the F-15C isn't a bomb truck; it is designed solely to take down enemy air assets, and hence the phrase "not a pound of air to ground" that's commonly associated with it.


The bomb truck, and J-16 will to be ...














SinoSoldier said:


> Are you the leader of China's procurement team, or is this some wishful thinking on your part?


Of course im not, but Su35 deal is the case could affect Sino-Russia relationship, both Xi-Putin government care this Su35 trade. I heard news Russian allowed Chinese requirment to modify some Su35 aviation structures even open weapon API code to use China weapons, as far as i knew it's high possible that Sino-Russia will sign Su35 deal in this ZhuHai Air Show.




SinoSoldier said:


> Are the Chinese to assume that purchasing from Sukhoi is the only option to compensate for the high price of 5th generation fighters?


Future PLAAF will equip 200+ mass production version J-20, J-10B replace retired J-10A, J-16 replace retired J-11/Su30mkk and there still a big gap to replace old PLAAF J-7G and J-8II fighter ... to buy some Su35 can decrease it. After 2020 PLAAF need 1000+ 3/4-gen fighters, Russian Sukhoi is a option, if American willing to sell F15E/F18F/F35A/F22 to China we also happy to buy them.

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## 帅的一匹

Su35 is not out redeemer, but we need it as stopgap and strong reinforcement. more important is the political relationship between China and Russia.

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## mike2000

cirr said:


> I wish they would bring in more UAVs：



I like this one, is it a new type of drone?

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## 帅的一匹

cnleio said:


> The bomb truck, and J-16 will to be ...
> View attachment 147645
> 
> View attachment 147646
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course im not, but Su35 deal is the case could affect Sino-Russia relationship, both Xi-Pution government care this Su35 trade. I heard news Russian allowed Chinese requirment to modify some Su35 aviation structures even open weapon API code to use China weapons, as far as i knew it's high possible that Sino-Russia will sign Su35 deal in this ZhuHai Air Show.
> 
> 
> 
> Future PLAAF will equip 200+ mass production version J-20, J-10B replace retired J-10A, J-16 replace retired J-11/Su30mkk and there still a big gap to replace old PLAAF J-7G and J-8II fighter ... to buy some Su35 can decrease it. After 2020 PLAAF need 1000+ 3/4-gen fighters, Russian Sukhoi is a option, if American willing to sell F15E/F18F/F35A/F22 to China we also happy to buy them.


China won't buy main weapons from USA.

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## aliaselin

cirr said:


> Submarine launched missiles CM-708UN and CM-708UNA：
> 
> View attachment 147496
> 
> 
> View attachment 147497
> 
> 
> View attachment 147498
> 
> 
> View attachment 147499


So the new product is c-708, and there will be no yj-12 and yj-18 export version


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## cnleio

wanglaokan said:


> China won't buy main weapons from USA.


The question is whether U.S has the guts to sell weapons to China ... then they will know How STRONG Made In China ... LOL


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## GeHAC

Carrier for CM501G NLOS









CM501G NLOS








XM501 Netfire (CM501G ←Good name indeed)

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## cnleio

Thanks our Chinese military fans to provide many great pics in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show.

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## cnleio

China "Rainbow-4" attack UAV



> 新浪军事前方报道，珠海航展布展现场，航天科工集团彩虹-4无人机再度亮相。该机一大特点就是载弹量较大，总计有四个挂架可以携带导弹。

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## cnleio

USAF C-17 incoming ... (Y-20 vs C-17)

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## cnleio

Malik Alashter said:


> I wonder why Russia is good in engines but not electronics.


Since USSR Russian pay more energy on Heavy Industry, Weapon & Engine Industry developed from it. Their Light Inudstry and Electronics Industry not as good as their Heavy Industry development. My personal opinion, Russia is big but few population, they lack a large internal consumer market to boost their Light Industry and Electronics Industry.

In this world most consumer markets inside West world, Russia leave them far away.

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## mike2000

cnleio said:


> China "Rainbow-4" attack UAV
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 147662
> View attachment 147663
> View attachment 147665
> View attachment 147666
> View attachment 147667
> View attachment 147668
> View attachment 147669
> View attachment 147671
> View attachment 147672



How many types of drones do you people have/are building?


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## cnleio

mike2000 said:


> How many types of drones do you people have/are building?


Many, detail types we don't know.

GPS or BeiDou postion system + optical devices + satellite data links + crude oil engine + remote control devices, all can made in China so we can build many drones as we wish.

The important thing is Chinese own ourself satellites chain, to track UAV and send video/message back to us from hundreds km away.

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## cnleio

ZhuHai airport, UAE's C-17(few hours leave away to send exhibition stuffs) and China Y-20

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## aliaselin



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## mike2000

cnleio said:


> Many, detail types we don't know.
> 
> *GPS *or BeiDou postion system + optical devices + satellite data links + crude oil engine + remote control devices, all can made in China so we can build many drones as we wish.
> 
> The important thing is Chinese own ourself satellites chain, to track UAV and send video/message back to us from hundreds km away.




Huh......i thought your Beidou was already operational in Asia pacific?


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## GeHAC

mike2000 said:


> Huh......i thought your Beidou was already operational in Asia pacific?


Yes.Beidou MEO stars launching will be on going next year.


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## C130

cirr said:


> 4 trillion USD buys you far more influences than exporting destructive weapons。
> 
> China sells weapons with no strings attached。China does not meddle in another country's internal affaris。
> 
> China is not out to extend its influences the way the so-called western powers do。China is in the business of constructive engagements。
> 
> View attachment 142053
> 
> 
> View attachment 142054
> 
> 
> View attachment 142055
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> 
> View attachment 142056
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> 
> View attachment 142057
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> View attachment 142058
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> 
> View attachment 142059
> 
> 
> View attachment 142060
> 
> 
> View attachment 142061




I'm just curious and on how these weapon systems are going to sell when they have ZERO battle experience.
are you just going to sell to Africa and South America??? not going to make much $$ doing that.


if China was smart they would start a minor war with Vietnam and show off there weapons and watch the contracts fly in

that's how we do it  war is business and it's very profitable.


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## cnleio

mike2000 said:


> Huh......i thought your Beidou was already operational in Asia pacific?



The red area is current 16x BeiDou GPS satellites on space, cover most Asia regions now.






Until to 2020, 30x China BeiDou satellites will cover whole earth including Europe/ Afirca/ America regions.

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## GeHAC

C130 said:


> I'm just curious and on these weapon systems are going to sell when they have ZERO battle experience.
> are you just going to sell to Africa and South America??? not going to make much $$ doing that.
> 
> 
> if China was smart they would start a minor war with Vietnam and show off there weapons and watch the contracts fly in
> 
> that's how we do it  war is business and it's very profitable.


Many small arms have been tested in Syria,iraq,Africa etc.
Meaningless wars would only benefits military suppliers while it means consumption of power for a nation.I think you guys could get across with it.

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## C130

GeHAC said:


> Many small arms have been tested in Syria,iraq,Africa etc.
> Meaningless wars would only benefits military suppliers while it means consumption of power for a nation.I think you guys could get across with it.



small arms 
I think China missed out on not being part of the "War on Terror" could of tested it troops in combat and shown off all these jets,bombs,missiles,armored vehicles, etc on the world stage.

you snooze you lose as they say.


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## onebyone




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## cnleio

C130 said:


> small arms
> I think China missed out on not being part of the "War on Terror" could of tested it troops in combat and shown off all these jets,bombs,missiles,armored vehicles, etc on the world stage.
> 
> you snooze you lose as they say.


China is Top5 weapon seller, so no any question here. 2014 is 4th over France. Sometimes we don't need a war to prove we r strong, just sell weapons and chose by foreign customers.

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## C130

cnleio said:


> China is Top5 weapon seller, so no any question here. 2014 is 4th over France. Sometimes we don't need a war to prove we r strong, just sell weapons and chose by foreign customers.



still peanuts compared the U.S and Russia

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## cnleio

C130 said:


> still peanuts compared the U.S and Russia


The truth is China really selling weapons to foreign military force and earn USD back, truth can't deny.


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## Thorough Pro

I think you are mistaken, Indians don't "cheer" death of Palestinian kids, they just don't have any conscience left after killing millions of minorities for so long. 



chauvunist said:


> Indian's take Cheer-leading to whole new level,Even celebrating the death of children's killed in Israeli air strikes which even some Israeli's condemn,yet they accuse others of what they themselves are guilty of...

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## cnleio

China Y-20 waiting for WS-20 engines ... when WS-20 done it will look like this

WS-20 testing














The final version Y-20

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## Thorough Pro

Bad example. That is why US has trillions of dollars in debt and China owns them, so who is really making n=money with shedding a drop of blood? 




C130 said:


> I'm just curious and on how these weapon systems are going to sell when they have ZERO battle experience.
> are you just going to sell to Africa and South America??? not going to make much $$ doing that.
> 
> 
> if *China was smart they would start a minor war with Vietnam and show off there weapons and watch the contracts fly in **that's how we do it  war is business and it's very profitable.*

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## Kompromat

C130 said:


> I'm just curious and on how these weapon systems are going to sell when they have ZERO battle experience.
> are you just going to sell to Africa and South America??? not going to make much $$ doing that.
> 
> 
> if China was smart they would start a minor war with Vietnam and show off there weapons and watch the contracts fly in
> 
> that's how we do it  war is business and it's very profitable.



You my friend have a mental illness. You obviously think that people you kill are mosquitos.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon



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## mike2000

Horus said:


> You my friend have a mental illness. You obviously think that people you kill are mosquitos.



I know he shouldnt have said that/put itlike that, but then again he isnt that far off from the point. If other countries give them the opportunity to keep doing this, then those countries are to blame in the first place, just look at Pakistan where the U.S has been testing its drones with strikes frequently with impunity for years now(with hundreds of deaths, some thousand). This indeed has made countries to start rushing for U.S drones, since they are constantly being put to test/battle tested in Pakistan day and night, without your government even moving one inch(in fact they are encouraging/calling for more strikes.lol) all this from a so called 'nuclear power'.lol Even Iran with no nuclear weapons at least shoots down U.S and Israeli drones when they cross into their territory. Thats why the U.S and our governments at least respect Iran despite our sanctions against them. So in some way C130 was right, some middle eastern countries like Pakistan have indeed brought millions/if not billions of dollars worth of business for the U.S through its sale of drones alone.........Maybe the Chinese might even start theirs when the Uygurs terrorists in Paksitan keep poking China as well, who knows, maybe then the Chinese wont have to even market their ddrones anymore. since actions speak louder than words  No hard feelings though, just making a point bro.


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## Brainsucker

mike2000 said:


> I know he shouldnt have said that/put itlike that, but then again he isnt that far off from the point. If other countries give them the opportunity to keep doing this, then those countries are to blame in the first place, just look at Pakistan where the U.S has been testing its drones with strikes frequently with impunity for years now(with hundreds of deaths, some thousand). This indeed has made countries to start rushing for U.S drones, since they are constantly being put to test/battle tested in Pakistan day and night, without your government even moving one inch(in fact they are encouraging/calling for more strikes.lol) all this from a so called 'nuclear power'.lol Even Iran with no nuclear weapons at least shoots down U.S and Israeli drones when they cross into their territory. Thats why the U.S and our governments at least respect Iran despite our sanctions against them. So in some way C130 was right, some middle eastern countries like Pakistan have indeed brought millions/if not billions of dollars worth of business for the U.S through its sale of drones alone.........Maybe the Chinese might even start theirs when the Uygurs terrorists in Paksitan keep poking China as well, who knows, maybe then the Chinese wont have to even market their ddrones anymore. since actions speak louder than words  No hard feelings though, just making a point bro.



Is it necessary to point out your superiority and aggression to the nation of the poster that you quote to make the point?

Everyone know that weapon are used to kill somebody. But there are two kind of people who use that such of killing arsenal. To protect themselves or to bomb other people country. Well, What China offer is the weapon to protect a country, not to bomb somebody land. So I think they are good enough for self defense. And at least China has already proof that nobody dare to bomb their country. SO their weapon is not useless

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## Inception-06

acetophenol said:


> What system is this?



loos like aversion of 155mm light wight howitzer, suits perfect for the Chinese mountain Artillary Brigades.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Ulla said:


> loos like aversion of 155mm light wight howitzer, suits perfect for the Chinese mountain Artillary Brigades.


 
Ideal for Tibet theater

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## Inception-06

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Ideal for Tibet theater




LOL I thought the same when I first time did see this guns, India wanted also buy the Light wight US 155mm for their new raised "Corps" near the Tibet border..

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## mike2000

Brainsucker said:


> Is it necessary to point out your superiority and aggression to the nation of the poster that you quote to make the point?
> 
> Everyone know that weapon are used to kill somebody. But there are two kind of people who use that such of killing arsenal. To protect themselves or to bomb other people country. Well, What China offer is the weapon to protect a country, not to bomb somebody land. So I think they are good enough for self defense. And at least China has proof something in here. Their weapon are capable to make the aggressor away from their country.



Lool you mean all the weapons China sells are for self defence?lool that couldnt be further from the truth bro. The Chinese are there to make bucks/dollars(or should i say yuan.) just like evry other P5 power who exports weapons. There is no such thing as weapons for self defence.lool Thats just words our western press/media use to justify arms sales(seems the Chinese are also falling for this propaganda as well.lool). Anyway i dont want to go into too much details, read my former posts about this, i expantiated into that pretty well.

As for me pointing our superiority,That wasnt my intention at all bro. I was just making a point that people shouldnt just be blaming the U.S for carrying out such acts, they should first and foremost blame their nations/government who allow these acts to be carry out in their own soil, just like in case of Pakistan whose government encourgaes such drone strikes and even helps the U.S in carrying them out properly. So the blame should first lie with them. No foreign power will ever come and build your country for you or help you do it. The people are the one to gain awareness,determination and do it themselves, else they will forver remain that way without ever progressing. Chnage always comes from home, not abroad.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Ulla said:


> LOL I thought the same when I first time did see this guns, India wanted also buy the Light wight US 155mm for their new raised "Corps" near the Tibet border..


 
I think Chinese general staffs have take into consideration of the Indian army acquisitions of the US 155mm, we certainly not underestimate what Amereican and other had sold to Indian army.

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## Inception-06

cnleio said:


> Air-defense system on ZhuHai Air Show
> 
> 8x8 type630 CIWS vehicle (Navy AK630 CIWS land version)
> 
> View attachment 143706
> View attachment 143707
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CSSA1 2x35mm AAG vehicle (PG99 land version)
> 
> View attachment 143708
> View attachment 143709
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HGR-106 3D search radar, max 210km range and 12,000km altitude
> 
> View attachment 143710
> View attachment 143711
> 
> View attachment 143712
> 
> View attachment 143713
> View attachment 143714
> 
> 
> 
> The military Trucks needs really better designe they look the same like in 90s.
> 
> AAG command vehicle
> View attachment 143715


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## Inception-06

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I think Chinese general staffs have take into consideration of the Indian army acquisitions of the US 155mm, we certainly not underestimate what Amereican and other had sold to Indian army.



India can buy what ever it want China has 30 years before already raised a full mounatin Corps along he Indian Border. 30 years more expirience, logistical lines training, tactics etc.

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## Beast

C130 said:


> I'm just curious and on how these weapon systems are going to sell when they have ZERO battle experience.
> are you just going to sell to Africa and South America??? not going to make much $$ doing that.
> 
> 
> if China was smart they would start a minor war with Vietnam and show off there weapons and watch the contracts fly in
> 
> that's how we do it  war is business and it's very profitable.



You don't need war to make good weapon. A very combat based field test and world class simulation is able to gauge the weapon system. That is why our Wing Loong UAV, FN-6 Manpad and HJ-8 ATGM are sold abroad and yet prove themselves as operational system.
















If by your logic, F-35 never tested on real combat. So when it enter service, it still cannot be a good system?

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## 帅的一匹

Why J10b doesnt show up in Zhuhai show? They forfeit a great Chance to advertise it.
ant least the PLAAF shall send the protoype 1035 here for show, my personal favorite are J10B.

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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> Why J10b doesnt show up in Zhuhai show? They forfeit a great Chance to advertise it.
> ant least the PLAAF shall send the protoype 1035 here for show, my personal favorite are J10B.



A show is a show。

I am far more interested in the “flying monster” that SAC is expected to unveil in the next couple of months。

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## cirr

By the way，SAC's J-11D is also scheduled to debut at the turn of the year。


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## j20blackdragon

cirr said:


> By the way，SAC's J-11D is also scheduled to debut at the turn of the year。



And this is one of the main reasons why I find all this Su-35 nonsense so funny. Why in the world would China buy the Su-35 when the J-11D (with AESA) is under development?


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## cirr

j20blackdragon said:


> And this is one of the main reasons why I find all this Su-35 nonsense so funny. Why in the world would China buy the Su-35 when the J-11D (with AESA) is under development?



A way for showing political solidarity with Russia？Economic assistance in disguise？Speeding up replacement of aging J-7s and J-8s？The deal，if it indeed goes ahead，should not be viewed only from the technical angle。


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## cirr



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## Beast

cirr said:


> A way for showing political solidarity with Russia？Economic assistance in disguise？Speeding up replacement of aging J-7s and J-8s？The deal，if it indeed goes ahead，should not be viewed only from the technical angle。



Its all the while Russian trying to shove the Su-35 to us. Su-35 is not in line with China weapon development.

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## Max Pain

xueri said:


> Does exocet made by American？
> Have exocet ever hit a French warship？



it destroyed a whole British ship during Falklands War.
it has been famous eversince.

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> A show is a show。
> 
> I am far more interested in the “flying monster” that SAC is expected to unveil in the next couple of months。



You had my curiosity. Now you have my attention.


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## Romeoo

cnleio said:


> ZhuHai airport, UAE's C-17(few hours leave away to send exhibition stuffs) and China Y-20
> 
> View attachment 147707
> 
> View attachment 147708
> 
> View attachment 147710
> 
> View attachment 147711
> 
> View attachment 147715
> 
> View attachment 147712
> 
> View attachment 147713



Y-20 is a buttye

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## Romeoo

C130 said:


> I'm just curious and on how these weapon systems are going to sell when they have ZERO battle experience.
> are you just going to sell to Africa and South America??? not going to make much $$ doing that.
> 
> 
> if China was smart they would start a minor war with Vietnam and show off there weapons and watch the contracts fly in
> 
> that's how we do it  war is business and it's very profitable.



its China not US of idiots in subject ??????


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## 帅的一匹

@husongshan


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## cirr

RedArrow-12 Fire-and-Forget Muilti-Purpose Missile：

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## cirr

Crew Task Support Unmanned Mobile Platform：

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## ChineseTiger1986

j20blackdragon said:


> And this is one of the main reasons why I find all this Su-35 nonsense so funny. Why in the world would China buy the Su-35 when the J-11D (with AESA) is under development?



In fact, J-11B is also using the AESA radar.


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## cirr



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## cirr



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## cirr

Here comes a mock-up for *31001 v2.0* aka *J-21 prototype*：

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## qwerrty

cirr said:


> Crew Task Support Unmanned Mobile Platform：
> 
> View attachment 147818
> 
> 
> View attachment 147819
> 
> 
> View attachment 147821



do you have higher quality pics of that vehicle?


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## l0ngl0ng

C130 said:


> I'm just curious and on how these weapon systems are going to sell when they have ZERO battle experience.
> are you just going to sell to Africa and South America??? not going to make much $$ doing that.
> 
> 
> if China was smart they would start a minor war with Vietnam and show off there weapons and watch the contracts fly in
> 
> that's how we do it  war is business and it's very profitable.


Mr. Gambit will slap your face ----- you should try first yourself to prove you are slap-able.

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## cirr

Y-20 take-off video:

运-20珠海首秀展强悍性能 超短距离拔地而起_凤凰军事

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## l0ngl0ng

cirr said:


> Crew Task Support Unmanned Mobile Platform：
> 
> View attachment 147818
> 
> 
> View attachment 147819
> 
> 
> View attachment 147821


I like this one.


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## cirr

qwerrty said:


> do you have higher quality pics of that vehicle?



I am afraid I don't.

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> RedArrow-12 Fire-and-Forget Muilti-Purpose Missile：
> 
> View attachment 147838
> 
> 
> View attachment 147839
> 
> 
> View attachment 147816
> 
> 
> View attachment 147817


Very Very NICE !!! Javelin is my favorite weapon, happy to see now PLA equip HJ-12 as same as Javelin. I wish in the future China can export 10,000x HJ-12 launchers & missiles to developing nations, just see How STRONG China weapon !

@Nihonjin1051 Here r more HJ-12 pics ... very nice !

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## cnleio

HJ-12 IS VERY VERY VERY ... VERY NICE, sorry i post again... HJ-12 pics now make me excited !!!  

It's one of Leio's dreams, China own thousands of Javelin.

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## cirr

Sky Dragon 50

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## Aepsilons

cnleio said:


> Very Very NICE !!! Javelin is my favorite weapon, happy to see now PLA equip HJ-12 as same as Javelin. I wish in the future China can export 10,000x HJ-12 launchers & missiles to developing nations, just see How STRONG China weapon !
> 
> @Nihonjin1051 Here r more HJ-12 pics ... very nice !


Awesome! Thanks buddy.


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## Aepsilons

cnleio said:


> HJ-12 IS VERY VERY VERY ... VERY NICE, sorry i post again... HJ-12 pics now make me excited !!!
> 
> It's one of Leio's dreams, China own thousands of Javelin.




I admit , yes they are. He he he!


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## Aepsilons

cirr said:


> View attachment 147915
> 
> 
> View attachment 147916
> 
> 
> View attachment 147917
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> 
> View attachment 147918
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> 
> View attachment 147919
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> 
> View attachment 147920
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> 
> View attachment 147921
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> 
> View attachment 147922
> 
> 
> View attachment 147923


What's the name of the company that made the carrier? Chery Motor?


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## cnleio

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I admit , yes they are. He he he!


When i first saw Javelin is in 1996, im a kid. A military magazine from my father to introduce it, damn it's a beautiful & powerful dream weapon ... i wish China also can have it, i waited for 20 years now my dream come true !  VERY NICE ~!

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## cirr

cnleio said:


> HJ-12 IS VERY VERY VERY ... VERY NICE, sorry i post again... HJ-12 pics now make me excited !!!
> 
> It's one of Leio's dreams, China own thousands of Javelin.

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## Aepsilons

cnleio said:


> When i first saw Javelin is in 1996, im a kid. A military magazine from my father to introduce it, damn it's a beautiful & powerful dream weapon ... i wish China also can have it, i waited for 20 years now my dream come true !  VERY NICE ~!




Damn I'm impressed by you Chinese. It's good to see a lot of development on not just naval inventory but land and anti air , too.

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## Aepsilons

cirr said:


> View attachment 147927



Stop teasing already. I want one so bad lol


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## cnleio

cirr said:


> View attachment 147927


Any HJ-12 fire pic ?

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## mike2000

cirr said:


> RedArrow-12 Fire-and-Forget Muilti-Purpose Missile：
> 
> View attachment 147838
> 
> 
> View attachment 147839
> 
> 
> View attachment 147816
> 
> 
> View attachment 147817



Is this an anti tank missile? Looks nice/deadly. Not bad at all.

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## cnleio

mike2000 said:


> Is this an anti tank missile? Looks nice/deadly. Not bad at all.


Famous Javelin, Made in China.


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## Aepsilons

mike2000 said:


> Is this an anti tank missile? Looks nice/deadly. Not bad at all.



Now I want to see this in action.


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## Aepsilons

cnleio said:


> Famous Javelin, Made in China.



Is this a big ticket item in terms of popularity by customers? I'm sure this will be quite useful for developing nations looking to boost their land power's fighting edge. Is this export material or no?


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## cirr

PLA airborne troops：

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## Aepsilons

cirr said:


> PLA airborne troops：
> 
> View attachment 147936
> 
> 
> View attachment 147937
> 
> 
> View attachment 147939
> 
> 
> View attachment 147940




Last pic: this is light artillery ? This is perfect for mountain deployed battalions. Is this 150 mm ?


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## cirr

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Last pic: this is light artillery ? This is perfect for mountain deployed battalions. Is this 150 mm ?



150 mm weighs about 3.6 tons


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## SQ8

mike2000 said:


> Ask Chinese officials not me bro.  At least your president recognizes there are uygurs militants in Pakistan, reason why he said today that Pakistan will help China fight uygurs militants on its soil. Sothere you go as for no uygur terrorists roaming in Pakistan.
> 
> Pakistan says will help China fight Xinjiang militants
> 
> BBC News - China urges Pakistan to expel Uighur Islamic militants
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204781804577266952254783484
> 
> From his Pakistan hideout, Uighur leader vows revenge on China| Reuters



Off topic.. but I was really pissed.. at Brits(and UK residents in general) while I was doing my MBA. The amount of hate speech in mosques and other places is rampant and you guys are literally helpless against this more crap. Hate speech against other Muslim sects.. anything that does not conform to the rising extremist population in the UK. I felt like puking when I stopped over in Birmingham and Bradford... there is religious tolerance.. and then there is pulling your pants down and asking to be screwed over. There should be a concentrated effort to identify and deport hate preachers.. and actively promote Sufism and other harmonious interpretations of Muslim thought in the UK to ensure that the large percentage of Muslims in the UK remain productive and integrated. Anyway, that is for another topic at another time and place.


On Topic... The J-21 is the platform the PAF is looking at.. not the J-31.

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## Aepsilons

cirr said:


> 150 mm weighs about 3.6 tons



One example is the M777 light artillery howitzer. Fires 150 mm, and this baby can be easily deployed into almost any terrain. Used in Iraq, Afghanistan.

JGSDF even used it during mountain battle exercises in Hokkaido, by the Northern Army. It's effing brilliant.

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## cnleio

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Is this a big ticket item in terms of popularity by customers? I'm sure this will be quite useful for developing nations looking to boost their land power's fighting edge. Is this export material or no?


All displayed on ZhuHai Air Show for export, waiting for foreign coustomers.

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## Aepsilons

cnleio said:


> All displayed on ZhuHai Air Show for export, waiting for foreign coustomers.



This is going to be a game changer for nations that can't afford large quantities of MBTs or MBT Killers such as MCV, but these babies will really come handy.

Arming a company with this can strike fear to even the fiercest cavalry commander.

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## cnleio

Nihonjin1051 said:


> This is going to be a game changer for nations that can't afford large quantities of MBTs or MBT Killers such as MCV, but these babies will really come handy.
> 
> Arming a company with this can strike fear to even the fiercest cavalry commander.


Yes, if lucky the HJ-12 will become another famous Chinese weapon after type63 107mm rocket all around the world.

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## cirr



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## SQ8

As long as high standards of quality control are upheld.. Chinese weapons will come to match any weapons system from the western world.

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## Aepsilons

cnleio said:


> Yes, if lucky the HJ-12 will become another famous Chinese weapon after type62 107mm rocket all around the world.
> 
> 
> View attachment 147955
> View attachment 147957



Precisely !

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## SQ8

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Precisely !



Both sad.. and then odd as well. That Japan has the potential to come up with some of the best weapons exports thanks in part to its well established electronics and manufacturing industry. Yet, due to its constitution(even with workarounds) it is limited in what it can sell.

I guess we'll have to wait for thirty more years before there is a chance to see Mitsubishi Heavy industries come up with an export Combat Mecha system.

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## SQ8

mike2000 said:


> I agree with you on this one bro. Our government indeed has to look deeper into our laws/policies about immigrants we allow in, and take more stringent measures against muslim/islamic radicals preachers. Thats why i have been saying on here that, any muslim preacher preaching hate, jihad/extremsim should be imprisoned, or even sent to guatanamo like the U,S does(i admire the U,S zero tolerance for this scums, since being tolerant with these scums only emboldens them), deported and banned for life from setting foot in our country again. Our government has indeed gone soft on these scums, since they are trying to be politically correct. Yet even with our tolerance/softness on these scums, some of your Pakistanis/muslim brothers still complain that we are oppressing muslim minorities.lool
> Hopefully our governemnts will change their policiesand screen more those muslim extremsist to make sure we dont allow radical islamists scums into our country in future.



To cut this short.. they are not coming in .. they are ALREADY there. Its a system of religious intolerance that has been brewed due to the isolationist policies of many Muslim communities in the UK. Sadly, not only do these communities generate knife stabbing nutjobs.. they also pressurise other Muslims who integrated into the UK society and practice their religion in peace; to conform to their exact interpretation otherwise threatening and harassing them. I spent over a year in the UK and would have loved to live out the rest of my life there.. but if I did, I'd keep as far as I could from Muslim centres in the UK.

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

cnleio said:


> Yes, if lucky the HJ-12 will become another famous Chinese weapon after type62 107mm rocket all around the world.
> 
> 
> View attachment 147955
> View attachment 147957



According to wiki, the type 63 rocket system is still used by special infantry formations! China throws nothing away!

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

With all these new toys, China can play more effectively the geopolitcal game: sell weapons to the enemie's foe was very limites in the pass but now we can give our enemy option of thinking twice before cozy our foes with their military sales and hope to counter balance China or we will reciprocate. ...and in the future China will have more fun when we reach the military parity to any superpower nation...

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## cirr

New medium transport under development：







The red PLA emblem says it all。

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## yusheng

a kind of unknown rader: 宽频相控阵雷达?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

cirr said:


> New medium transport under development：
> 
> View attachment 148022
> 
> 
> The red PLA emblem says it all。


 
When we gonna get this toy ?


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## BoQ77

*Video of China’s Stealthy J-31 aircraft’s (quite smoky) flight display practice at Zhuhai airshow*
Nov 06 2014 - 17 Comments




By David Cenciotti
*The Shenyang J-31 “Falcon Eagle” to debut at Zhuhai airshow, China’s biggest commercial and defense air show, near Hong Kong.*
The first prototype of Shenyang J-31 Falcon Eagle, China’s second stealth fighter jet, is going to be one of the highlights of China’s most important commercial and defense airshow held next week at Zhuhai, in the southern province of Guangdong, not far from Hong Kong.

The new aircraft, that performed its maiden flight on Oct 31, 2012, which is smaller than the J-20, from which it differs for the grey paint job and the presence of a colored emblem on the tails (in place of the typical red star) with the text 鹘鹰, Chinese for “Falcon Eagle”, embeds several features of the F-22 Raptor, and the F-35 Lightning II, respectively the current and future most advanced multi-role jets in the U.S. Air Force inventory: along with the distinctive lines of the Lockheed Martin’s stealth designs, the Chinese jet has a nose section which reminds that of the Joint Strike Fighter, same twin tails and trapezoidal wings.

Still, unlike the F-35, it is equipped with two engines (like the F-22, even though without Thrust Vectoring capability, at least, not yet).

The following footage shows the video of the J-31 practicing its demo flight at Zhuhai on Nov. 6. Pretty simple stuff (but let’s not forget it is just a prototype at its first public appearance). Noteworthy, the engines that currently equip the aircraft are a bit smoky: the Chinese jet may evade radars and one day equal F-22 and F-35s but for the moment they can be spotted from far away because of its engines pluming black smoke.

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## j20blackdragon

My favorite weapons so far:

1. CX-1 (Chinese P-800 Oniks/Brahmos)

2. Red Arrow 12 (Chinese Javelin)

3. J-31 production version model with EOTS and domestic engines with serrated nozzles.

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## AMDR

j20blackdragon said:


> My favorite weapons so far:
> 
> 1. CX-1 (Chinese P-800 Oniks/Brahmos)
> 
> 2. Red Arrow 12 (Chinese Javelin)
> 
> 3. J-31 production version model with EOTS and domestic engines with serrated nozzles.


Deadly weapons indeed. I'm assuming the J-31 has a DAS since it has EOTS. Is that correct?

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## mike2000

BoQ77 said:


> *Video of China’s Stealthy J-31 aircraft’s (quite smoky) flight display practice at Zhuhai airshow*
> Nov 06 2014 - 17 Comments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By David Cenciotti
> *The Shenyang J-31 “Falcon Eagle” to debut at Zhuhai airshow, China’s biggest commercial and defense air show, near Hong Kong.*
> The first prototype of Shenyang J-31 Falcon Eagle, China’s second stealth fighter jet, is going to be one of the highlights of China’s most important commercial and defense airshow held next week at Zhuhai, in the southern province of Guangdong, not far from Hong Kong.
> 
> The new aircraft, that performed its maiden flight on Oct 31, 2012, which is smaller than the J-20, from which it differs for the grey paint job and the presence of a colored emblem on the tails (in place of the typical red star) with the text 鹘鹰, Chinese for “Falcon Eagle”, embeds several features of the F-22 Raptor, and the F-35 Lightning II, respectively the current and future most advanced multi-role jets in the U.S. Air Force inventory: along with the distinctive lines of the Lockheed Martin’s stealth designs, the Chinese jet has a nose section which reminds that of the Joint Strike Fighter, same twin tails and trapezoidal wings.
> 
> Still, unlike the F-35, it is equipped with two engines (like the F-22, even though without Thrust Vectoring capability, at least, not yet).
> 
> The following footage shows the video of the J-31 practicing its demo flight at Zhuhai on Nov. 6. Pretty simple stuff (but let’s not forget it is just a prototype at its first public appearance). Noteworthy, the engines that currently equip the aircraft are a bit smoky: the Chinese jet may evade radars and one day equal F-22 and F-35s but for the moment they can be spotted from far away because of its engines pluming black smoke.



Thanks for the post BOQ77, Nice review/fighter jet, except for the smoky russia engines.lool Seems Moscow cant even produced decent engines these days.


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## Bilal.

cirr said:


> New medium transport under development：
> 
> View attachment 148022
> 
> 
> The red PLA emblem says it all。



Y-19?


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## monitor

cirr said:


> New medium transport under development：
> 
> View attachment 148022
> 
> 
> The red PLA emblem says it all。



looks like C-130


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## Beast

cirr said:


> New medium transport under development：
> 
> View attachment 148022
> 
> 
> The red PLA emblem says it all。



It shall be new class of medium transport plane close to A400M. If not, I dont see the point of getting a Y-9 class of similar transport plane.

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## waja2000

Beast said:


> It shall be new class of medium transport plane close to A400M. If not, I dont see the point of getting a Y-9 class of similar transport plane.



look the landing gear so small compare to A400M （3x2 tyre configuration) , and tyre is 2 wheel each side, look like completely same with C-130 tyre setting, also from picture propellers so small compare to A400M, i can say it is a new generation wide body version Y8/Y9 class. max not more than 24 Tons.


----------



## SQ8

Zarvan said:


> And UK is the most innocent country on face of the earth doing nothing to piss off Muslims it was some aliens who looked like UK soldiers who attacked Afghanistan and Iraq along with USA and of course UK has no role in creation of Israel and than giving title of Sir too people like Rushdie. Why even no Jihadi groups ask to attack any country off South America. UK was messing with Muslim world for really long time.



It was also Muslims who worked against other muslims.. Muslims are the worst scum against themselves.. nobody else has to make an effort. In either case, you and I will NEVER agree. Lets focus on the topic instead of me trying to bang my head against a wall.

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## SQ8

mike2000 said:


> You are absolutely right on this, as i said muslim/islamists extremists/radicals are a danger to everybody who doesnt abide by their rules(even their fellow moderate muslim brothers). As far as you dont agree with their religious views/perspective then you will be consider an ennemy/infidel and all the other names they like labelling others who dont abide by their rule/view of islam. Unfortunately, other moderate muslims dont speak out enough against these scums, since despite this, they still consider them their fellow 'mulsim brothers', reason they just keep quiete/silent and try as much as possible to just ignore them, but doing so is not the solution, since these scums not only segeragates societies, but also give a bad name to all muslims world wide. Since people will think keeping silent/ignoring them is tatantamount to sympathasing with them inderectly.
> Anyway, i do admire your courage/honesty of speaking out against these radicals/extremists, not many muslim people i know will do this, not even many muslim members on here, who always scream that we, the U.S, China, Russia oppress these muslims radicals, reason they behave that way. Not knowiing that these scums dont give a shit about where you come from or your religion, ethnic origin nor if the country is a democracy or dictatorship,communist or authoritarian etc, They will still act the same way, its either their way or your head.
> 
> Kudos for your honesty bro. Not many people/pakistanis members on here will say what you said(even when they know its the case)..
> 
> 
> By the way how do they give positive rating on here? cant seem to find the link to it.



Lets focus on the topic, discussions on the future course for Muslims in the UK and measures UK society can take to reduce extremism can be done elsewhere.

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## cnleio

yusheng said:


> a kind of unknown rader: 宽频相控阵雷达?
> 
> View attachment 148029
> View attachment 148031
> View attachment 148032


Anti-stealth fighter radar, M-wave phased array radar.

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## cnleio

AMDR said:


> Deadly weapons indeed. I'm assuming the J-31 has a DAS since it has EOTS. Is that correct?


Since J-20 N.o2011 had installed EOTS, i think J-31 also can have it.
















F35 EOTS

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## mike2000

cnleio said:


> Since J-20 N.o2011 had installed EOTS, i think J-31 also can have it.
> 
> View attachment 148137
> 
> View attachment 148138
> 
> View attachment 148139
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F35 EOTS
> View attachment 148147
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 148148



Cool............are we invited/taking part in this event? And which other countries are invited/taking part in it?


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## cnleio

mike2000 said:


> Cool............are we invited/taking part in this event? And which other countries are invited/taking part in it?


Emmm ... the J-20 stealth fighter project as same as American F-22 for China, i think it's no possible to invite foreigner to join it or display it on a Show before serving in PLAAF ... im sorry J-20 is China's Top Secret, Chinese will keep this secret weapon for a long time.

But J-31 and the project development, i think Chinese welcome other nations to join it.

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## j20blackdragon



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## cnleio

Maybe mass production version, YiLong-I attack UAV on this ZhuHai Show

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## Akasa

Any news or information on this mystery missile?

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## cnleio

A little bird... flying high high ...high  China "Rainbow-4" attack UAV launch BlueArrow-7/9 missile

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## cnleio

SinoSoldier said:


> Any news or information on this mystery missile?
> View attachment 148173
> View attachment 148160


Looks like a air-to-surface missile mockup.


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## cnleio

"Hello !" photo by WeiMeng

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## cnleio

China Y-9 and Airborne weapons

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## Sasquatch

cirr said:


> New medium transport under development：
> 
> View attachment 148022
> 
> 
> The red PLA emblem says it all。



China is on dam fire now. We are reaching full self sufficiency of our weaponry. I want to see the H-20.

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## cnleio

Stuffs will display on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

China thermal imaging device







MBT-3000 MBT











VP11 4x4 MRAP 











Little toy











85mm Mortar Carrier

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> View attachment 147784
> 
> 
> View attachment 147785
> 
> 
> View attachment 147786
> 
> 
> View attachment 147787


Good air-defense system & anti-stealth radars for China, that will make others think twice. 
I believe those weapons & air-defense systems displayed in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show, it's REALLY at the right time & right place to show the great POWERS.

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## Sasquatch

cirr said:


> RedArrow-12 Fire-and-Forget Muilti-Purpose Missile：
> 
> View attachment 147838
> 
> 
> View attachment 147839
> 
> 
> View attachment 147816
> 
> 
> View attachment 147817



Nice modern finally fire and forget ATGM.

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## Genesis

cnleio said:


> Good air-defense system & anti-stealth radars for China, that will make others think twice.
> I believe those weapons & air-defense systems displayed in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show, it's REALLY at the right time & right place to show the great POWERS.


one problem, our military isn't equipped with all the latest tech yet. I mean type 59 is still going strong. 

I guess the deadline is always 2020, but can we do it by 2020 is the question.


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## Aepsilons

Really impressive developments by China's domestic defense firms.

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## Aepsilons

Hu Songshan said:


> China is on dam fire now. We are reaching full self sufficiency of our weaponry. I want to see the H-20.



Yes you guys are. One of the benefits of having a large industrial and manufacturing capacity.

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## cnleio

Genesis said:


> one problem, our military isn't equipped with all the latest tech yet. I mean type 59 is still going strong.
> 
> I guess the deadline is always 2020, but can we do it by 2020 is the question.


That's not a problem for China, these new weapons & systems displayed on ZhuHai Show it's a STRONG SIGNAL to foreign ... Chinese r updating their powers ... she get STRONGER now. Above these new stuffs & techs, China has more potential to develop more STRONGER in future.

Chinese didn't need to tell world how strong it is, just do it & show the power.

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## Aepsilons

_你好。华丽的淑女！_

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## cnleio

China "太行 / TianHang" WS-10A jet engine on ZhuHai Show

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## Aepsilons

cnleio said:


> China "太行 / TianHang" WS-10A jet engine on ZhuHai Show
> 
> View attachment 148226
> 
> View attachment 148227
> 
> View attachment 148228
> 
> View attachment 148229
> 
> View attachment 148230



These will be eventually used to fuel the Chengdu J-10, right?


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## Sasquatch

Nihonjin1051 said:


> These will be eventually used to fuel the Chengdu J-10, right?



It's already on the J-11B and J-10B 1035, yes mass production.

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## cnleio

Nihonjin1051 said:


> These will be eventually used to fuel the Chengdu J-10, right?


As far as i knew ...

WS-10A for J-10 and J-11, J-15, J-16
WS-20 for Y-20
WS-13 & WS-15 for J-31 & J-20

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## Aepsilons

Hu Songshan said:


> It's already on the J-11B and J-10B 1035, yes mass production.



That's what I had thought, definitely appreciate your clarification.



cnleio said:


> As far as i knew ...
> 
> WS-10A for J-10 and J-11, J-15, J-16
> WS-20 for Y-20
> WS-13 & WS-15 for J-31 & J-20



Thanks buddy !


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## Sasquatch

cnleio said:


> As far as i knew ...
> 
> WS-10A for J-10 and J-11, J-15, J-16
> WS-20 for Y-20
> WS-13 & WS-15 for J-31 & J-20



There is a rumor about another turbofan called the WS-17 that will be used on the 310 project.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Damn... 

China Stronk!

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## cnleio

Ooops ... they carry out China next-gen fighter cockpit simulator again 

New version cockpit simulator on 2014 ZhuHai Show














Old cockpit simulator pics from 2012 ZhuHai Show

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## DESERT FIGHTER

any off road vehicles... like buggys n stuff?


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## cnleio

Our lovely Chinese military fans, thanks their photos.

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## BoQ77

China want marketing their armored vehicles and artilery in an Air show ?
or they means those could be airborned ?

Russian Su-27 made great affect to China. All useful fighters of China based on it.
Great design, and Su-35 is great too.

Y-20 prototype still mounted with Russian engines means anything?

As my previous estimation, J-31 would be more realistic aircraft than J-20.
Can tell more details on its engines, anyone? 31-001




cnleio said:


> Stuffs will display on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show
> 
> 
> MBT-3000 MBT
> View attachment 148207
> 
> View attachment 148208
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VP11 4x4 MRAP
> View attachment 148209
> 
> View attachment 148210
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Little toy
> View attachment 148213
> 
> View attachment 148212
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 85mm Mortar Carrier
> View attachment 148214
> 
> View attachment 148215


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## BoQ77

Nihonjin1051 said:


> View attachment 148220
> 
> 
> View attachment 148221
> 
> 
> _你好。华丽的淑女！_



New uniform for AF ? Looks great, so powerful !!

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## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> China want marketing their armored vehicles and artilery in an Air show ?
> or they means those could be airborned ?


They can fly, when carried by Y-7, Y-8, Y-9, IL-76, Y-20 planes. Of course showing & selling them to foreign customers on this ZhuHai Air show.




BoQ77 said:


> Russian Su-27 made great affect to China. All useful fighters of China based on it.
> Great design, and Su-35 is great too.


J-10A, J-10B, JH-7A also useful fighters in PLAAF.




BoQ77 said:


> Y-20 prototype still mounted with Russian engines means anything?


If China can't build Y-20 it means nothing, once Y-20 flying in the sky it means everything to China. "Made in China" strength will make Y-20 popular on the world. BTW China W-20 engine will ready soon for Y-20, D-30 not our choice.




BoQ77 said:


> As my previous estimation, J-31 would be more realistic aircraft than J-20.
> Can tell more details on its engines, anyone? 31-001


The prototype using RD-93, J-31 compared with J-20 in China == F35 and F22. American never sell F-22, the same as J-20 in PLAAF.

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## BoQ77

Wish China could soon reach great achievement on turbofan engine.
You have so many aircrafts awaiting for domestic engines.

And foreign customers also think about it, if they are Russia haters.


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## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> Wish China could soon reach great achievement on turbofan engine.
> You have so many aircrafts awaiting for domestic engines.
> 
> And foreign customers also think about it, if they are Russia haters.


Current development is optimistic, bro !

It's a time problem for China. PLAAF J-11 had installed domesitc WS-10A jet engines, the more WS-10As produce from factory the more fighters will install them in future.







Now Jet Engine Industry is the only weakness to CASC, Chinese can focus more energy to fix the problem. Until to 2020, u will see more types of "Made in China" jet engines for J-10/J-11/J-15/J-16/J-31/J-20 ... some engine projects had going many years, soon to reach the achievements in the near future.


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## BoQ77

RD-93 ... Yes. That's why the aircrafts smoky alot.

I wonder, even China achieved WS-13, which engines would be mounted to exported J-31 ?
WS-13 ? No, I think.

J-31 would never be a single-engine like F-35 with a reliable and powerful engine P&W F135 unless China could make a greater leap forward on engine.

Anyway, I still prefer J-31 over J-20 - an unsuccessful copy of 10 year served F-22.


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## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> RD-93 ... Yes. That's why the aircrafts smoky alot.
> 
> I wonder, even China achieved WS-13, which engines would be mounted to exported J-31 ?
> WS-13 ? No, I think.
> 
> J-31 would never be a single-engine like F-35 with a reliable and powerful engine P&W F135 unless China could make a greater leap forward on engine.
> 
> Anyway, I still prefer J-31 over J-20


Update a weapon system is easier than to build a new one, same to the aircraft. So China had spent years to make J-31 and J-20 here, the rest thing is updating them with new tech or new powerful jet engines ... all just a time problem in near future. WS-13 it will installed on J-31, Chinese happy to sell J-31 to foreign nations.


If u feel China can not make a successful & powerful jet engines for J-31 or J-20 ... it would sounds like China can not build a stealth fighter like J-31 or J-20, what Chinese need here is just R&D so oneday will get achievements again.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Y-20 seems quiet manouvable

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## BoQ77

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Y-20 seems quiet manouvable



What's the music playing there for ?


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## cnleio

A large photo to all military fans here

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## cirr

Nihonjin1051 said:


> These will be eventually used to fuel the Chengdu J-10, right?



Yes, starting with J-10Cs.

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## cirr

Hu Songshan said:


> China is on dam fire now. We are reaching full self sufficiency of our weaponry. I want to see the H-20.



The show is hardly scratching the surface of what China has in store now and even less, far less what it will in, say, 5 years.

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## cnleio

Compare HJ-12 with Javelin

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## cirr

CASIC taking part in the Zhuhai Show:

2014第十届珠海航展专题暨网上展厅

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## Rafi

Want to see the Z-20 - helicopter - would be a game changer for our Air Assault Ops/

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## l0ngl0ng

cnleio said:


> Compare HJ-12 with Javelin
> 
> View attachment 148273
> 
> View attachment 148274


HJ-12 is far better. The bigger lens standards for brighter view through range finder and better performance at night for it collect more lights.

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## cnleio

l0ngl0ng said:


> HJ-12 is far better. The bigger lens standards for brighter view through range finder and better performance at night for it collect more lights.


Okay, we should check who is heavyer, the lighter launcher is good to carry by soldier.


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## cnleio

self-delete


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## Beast

cnleio said:


> China Y-9 and Airborne weapons
> 
> 
> View attachment 148195
> 
> View attachment 148196
> 
> View attachment 148197
> 
> View attachment 148198
> 
> View attachment 148231



This photo is significant. In the absent of many heavy transport airborne aircraft. Y-9 now will play the significant role of power projection with tailor made airborne weapons until Y-20 enter service.

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## Aepsilons

@cnleio , here's the JGSDF's own LMAT Type 01 (01式軽対戦車誘導弾)

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## cnleio

Nihonjin1051 said:


> @cnleio , here's the JGSDF's own LMAT Type 01 (01式軽対戦車誘導弾)


Is that Japan version Javelin, pls share pic i can't access to youtube here.

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## GeHAC

In the future，anti-tank battalion of brigade’s artillery regiments and division‘s artillery brigades can be cancelled after HJ-12 entering service.AFT-10 and CM501G multirole missiles would be the better choice for brigade level anti-tank mission.

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## Aepsilons

cnleio said:


> Is that Japan version Javelin, pls share pic i can't access to youtube here.



Yes, it is the LMAT Type 01

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## Beast

Nihonjin1051 said:


> @cnleio , here's the JGSDF's own LMAT Type 01 (01式軽対戦車誘導弾)



That is the big advantage of having a powerful electronic sector. You see the Japanese has long made a Fire and Forget ATGM few years ago and China only has this HJ-12 enter service last year when Russian has struggle many years and yet to field a similar fire and forget portable ATGM. Their advance ATGM is rely on so called SALOS system.

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## SvenSvensonov

GeHAC said:


> In the future，anti-tank battalion of brigade’s artillery regiments and division‘s artillery brigades can be cancelled after HJ-12 entering service.AFT-10 and CM501G multirole missiles would be the better choice for brigade level anti-tank mission.



That's a dangerous recommendation. Missiles are a good system for any military to have, but using them as the only option? Missiles are more easily compromised by enemy defenses than artillery shells are. Smart shells, such as the GPS and laser guided Excalibur of the US military, are even more difficult to stop... and very accurate even against moving targets. The mobility of guided missile systems is useful, but static or mobile artillery and anti-tank guns can be even more deadly, and these systems carry more ammunition per system than the typical anti-tank missile system. Why limit yourself? By doing so you are decreasing your own versatility and increasing your enemy's ability to counter your systems but allowing them the need to develop fewer countermeasures. Compliment existing systems with the HJ-12, AFT-10 and CM501G, but don't rely on these alone.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Rafi said:


> Want to see the Z-20 - helicopter - would be a game changer for our Air Assault Ops/


 
Z-20 is good for high altitude operation, I heart that India will get the blackhawk, I hope Pakistan can acquire one or two squadron of Z-20, it's much cheaper

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## cnleio

Beast said:


> That is the big advantage of having a powerful electronic sector. You see the Japanese has long made a Fire and Forget ATGM few years ago and China only has this HJ-12 enter service last year when Russian has struggle many years and yet to field a similar fire and forget portable ATGM. Their advance ATGM is rely on so called SALOS system.


1. Advanced electronic power
2. Mature tech to share

Although China HJ-12 release 10 years later than Japan LMAT type01, i still happy to see China Javelin here. I believe future all MBTs will add more armours on their heads now ... LOL !

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## Aepsilons

Beast said:


> That is the big advantage of having a powerful electronic sector. You see the Japanese has long made a Fire and Forget ATGM few years ago and China only has this HJ-12 enter service last year when Russian has struggle many years and yet to field a similar fire and forget portable ATGM. Their advance ATGM is rely on so called SALOS system.



Precisely. I will admit that I am impressed with the Chinese production and successful fielding of the HJ-12. I've seen some pictures of this being used in Chinese military exercises. No doubt this will add a powerful edge to the PLA, and any nation that will purchase this platform. Good Job China !


----------



## Aepsilons

cnleio said:


> 1. Advanced electronic power
> 2. Mature tech to share
> 
> Although China HJ-12 release 10 years later than Japan LMAT type01, i still happy to see China Javelin here. I believe future all MBTs will add more armours on their heads now ... LOL !



It shows to us, bro, that strategies in heavy cavalry use is always changing. Long gone are the days that a tank company can just overrun an infantry post. If said infantry post has quantity of LMAT Type 01 or HJ-12, good bye Tank. LOL.

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## SvenSvensonov

Nihonjin1051 said:


> It shows to us, bro, that strategies in heavy cavalry use is always changing. Long gone are the days that a tank company can just overrun an infantry post. If said infantry post has quantity of LMAT Type 01 or HJ-12, good bye Tank. LOL.



Very true. Infantry units have been given a massive increase in their capabilities with smaller and more deadly missiles. This is why we don't see pure infantry units anymore. The shift is towards a connected battlefield that sees a military not fight as individual branches, but as a single unit where everyone is connected to and supporting each other. Infantry should not be put into a possition were they have to rely on themselves to stop an enemy advance. One other thing I wanted to say is the while missiles help, the ingenuity of the infantry man is a wonder weapons in-of-itself. Missiles help, but take a look at the IDEs of the Iraq war. Some could turn a 70 ton M1A2 with a TUSK (tank urban survival kit) package upside-down. Infantry can use their own ingenuity to set trap for tanks, trap them in environments they cannot fight in and demolish them with ruthless efficiency. The US learned many valuable and brutal lessons in human ingenuity in Iraq... as did the Russian military in Chechnya. Respect his weapons, but never underestimate the man behind them. He will always have a surprise for you.

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## cirr

Anti-frogman Rocket Launcher:

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## cnleio

Nihonjin1051 said:


> It shows to us, bro, that strategies in heavy cavalry use is always changing. Long gone are the days that a tank company can just overrun an infantry post. If said infantry post has quantity of LMAT Type 01 or HJ-12, good bye Tank. LOL.


No doubt, Fire and Forget + Top Attack will change the game rule of future ground battle to against a tank. The weakness always on the HEAD !


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## Rafi

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Z-20 is good for high altitude operation, I heart that India will get the blackhawk, I hope Pakistan can acquire one or two squadron of Z-20, it's much cheaper



It will be a game changer for Kashmir and Tibet - making our enemies cry with envy.

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## 帅的一匹

Beast said:


> That is the big advantage of having a powerful electronic sector. You see the Japanese has long made a Fire and Forget ATGM few years ago and China only has this HJ-12 enter service last year when Russian has struggle many years and yet to field a similar fire and forget portable ATGM. Their advance ATGM is rely on so called SALOS system.


Can this one fired in house cause I see big tail flame?


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## 帅的一匹

cirr said:


> Anti-frogman Rocket Launcher:
> 
> View attachment 148284
> 
> 
> View attachment 148285


Specially presented for Vietnam.


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## GeHAC

SvenSvensonov said:


> That's a dangerous recommendation. Missiles are a good system for any military to have, but using them as the only option? Missiles are more easily compromised by enemy defenses than artillery shells are. Smart shell, such as the GPS and laser guided Excalibur of the US military, are even more difficult to stop... and very accurate even against moving targets. The mobility of guided missile systems is useful, but static or mobile artillery and anti-tank guns can be even more deadly, and these systems carry more ammunition per system than the typical anti-tank missile system. Why limit yourself? By doing so you are decreasing your own versatility and increasing your enemy's ability to counter your systems but allowing them the need to develop fewer countermeasures. Compliment existing systems with the HJ-12, AFT-10 and CM501G, but don't rely on these alone.


Currently,PLA's anti-tank battalions attached to brigade/division's artillery formation are equiped with HJ-8/9 ATGMs carried by HUMVEEs and self-propelled anti-tank guns.Their role is really simplized and can't fit the current artillery C4I system well due to the lack of informatization.Also,the development of tank guns has surpassed the ability of simple anti-tank guns.Cancel of anti-tank battalion won't affect other SPGs(already equiped with smart shells) and moblie rocket launcher in artillery brigades.Just a lift on informatization level.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon



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## SvenSvensonov

GeHAC said:


> Currently,PLA's anti-tank battalions attached to brigade/division's artillery formation are equiped with HJ-8/9 ATGMs carried by HUMVEEs and self-propelled anti-tank guns.Their role is really simplized and can't fit the current artillery C4I system well due to the lack of informatization.Also,the development of tank guns has surpassed the ability of simple anti-tank guns.Cancel of anti-tank battalion won't affect other SPGs(already equiped with smart shells) and moblie rocket launcher in artillery brigades.Just a lift on informatization level.



Sounds more a like a problem with the tactics and battlefield thinking than an issue with the system. The HJ-8 is a TOW analogue while the HJ-12 is China's Javelin-type system. When the US introduced the Javelin in 1998, yes one of the most advanced anti-tank systems in the world is nearly 20 years old, it didn't replace the TOW, it just reassigned the TOW to use by other platforms. The HJ-12 is for dismounted or light infantry (such as recon or light armored vehicle mounted troops), the HJ-8 can still be used effectively from helicopters or mounted on vehicles. Also, I never mentioned anti-tank guns/tank destroyers, rather I mentioned the use of artillery as an anti-tank system and for this artillery is a brutally effective system, especially when equipped with anti-tank sub-munitions. Artillery guns also have much longer ranges than anti-tank missiles. A grad launcher or M777 battery can reduce a a modern tank force to scrap with a few salvos. The HJ-8 doesn't have to be replaced and it can't be replaced by the HJ-12 or other mounted systems because you are proposing that a system replaces another systems when the two don't share a common role (mounted versus dismounted, mobile versus stationary). Just as the Javelin didn't replace the TOW, the HJ-8 will not be replaced by the HJ-12 or AFT-10 or any other similar system.

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## cnleio

JF-17 assembly before ZhuHai Air Show open










BTW What's this plane ? So cute ~!

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## j20blackdragon

Chinese Hellfire missile




Chinese JDAM-ER




Chinese JSOW




50 kg GPS/INS bomb




1,000 kg GPS/INS bunker buster

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## xueri

C130 said:


> I'm just curious and on how these weapon systems are going to sell when they have ZERO battle experience.
> are you just going to sell to Africa and South America??? not going to make much $$ doing that.
> 
> 
> if China was smart they would start a minor war with Vietnam and show off there weapons and watch the contracts fly in
> 
> that's how we do it  war is business and it's very profitable.


Really?
Does F35 have any battle experience?

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## kuge

cnleio said:


> Our lovely Chinese military fans, thanks their photos.


 the smog/haze is ever presence in china...


----------



## yusheng

xueri said:


> Really?
> Does F35 have any battle experience?


 

forget this stupid "experience theory", 

who have practice nuclear war experience, only US, but why US so fear of others's nuclear weapons if no one on this earth have such experiecne.
today, with the swift development of tech, the old experience sometims are harmful and invalid. 
last, does US really have useful experience in its past war practices? the reply is obvilus NO since what it scrapped are all small opponents, can such experience be applied to big power, such as Russian, and China?

" experience theory" is western way of thinking, let them be happy with their simlificaton and extremalization


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## cirr

*Y-30，the new medium tactical transport。

国产运30运输机模型-中新网 









*

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## cirr

*Feitian-1*（*FT-1*）mobile rapid carrier rocket launch system：
















for emergency satellite launch （able to launch satellites in quick successions）。

What are the differences between Feitian-1 and Kuaizhou-1？

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## cirr

qwerrty said:


> do you have higher quality pics of that vehicle?

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## cnleio

A good stealth fighter, J-31 ?

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## Hurter

cnleio said:


> A good stealth fighter, J-31 ?
> 
> 
> View attachment 148436
> View attachment 148437
> View attachment 148438
> View attachment 148440



No cockpit pictures of J-31?


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## raazh

cant see any smoke behind the RD93/33 engines  .. plus the nozzle leaves also look more pleasing  .. I do believe PAF will induct more than 2 sqds of this plane depending on Indian Pakfa developments .. however I am more interested to see the inside electronics and goodies from this plane being implanted in future JF17 blocks ..


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## Sanchez

SvenSvensonov said:


> Sounds more a like a problem with the tactics and battlefield thinking than an issue with the system. The HJ-8 is a TOW analogue while the HJ-12 is China's Javelin-type system. When the US introduced the Javelin in 1998, yes one of the most advanced anti-tank systems in the world is nearly 20 years old, it didn't replace the TOW, it just reassigned the TOW to use by other platforms. The HJ-12 is for dismounted or light infantry (such as recon or light armored vehicle mounted troops), the HJ-8 can still be used effectively from helicopters or mounted on vehicles. Also, I never mentioned anti-tank guns/tank destroyers, rather I mentioned the use of artillery as an anti-tank system and for this artillery is a brutally effective system, especially when equipped with anti-tank sub-munitions. Artillery guns also have much longer ranges than anti-tank missiles. A grad launcher or M777 battery can reduce a a modern tank force to scrap with a few salvos. The HJ-8 doesn't have to be replaced and it can't be replaced by the HJ-12 or other mounted systems because you are proposing that a system replaces another systems when the two don't share a common role (mounted versus dismounted, mobile versus stationary). Just as the Javelin didn't replace the TOW, the HJ-8 will not be replaced by the HJ-12 or AFT-10 or any other similar system.



HJ-8 sounds ancient to me,....and was replaced long time ago.


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## SvenSvensonov

Sanchez said:


> HJ-8 sounds ancient to me,....and was replaced long time ago.



Ancient it does sound, though no more than the US TOW, but the HJ-8 is still in service as the main missile on the PLA helicopters.


cnleio said:


> A good stealth fighter, J-31 ?
> 
> 
> View attachment 148436
> View attachment 148437
> View attachment 148438
> View attachment 148440



It looks good, but the rear aspect stealth is compromised by the shape of the engine nozzle, and that fact that there are two engines which will increase the heat signature of the J-31. From the front is it looks awesome, but I have a question about its RAM. Does the J-31 use a RAM paint like the F-22, F-117 and B-2, RAM paints which are expensive and difficult to maintain, or does it used a baked-in RAM coating like the F-35? Also a cockpit view would be very welcomed. The J-31 trainer pictures you posted make the trainer look older... at least when compared to the F-35's trainer.

Compare this






With this

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## Sanchez

SvenSvensonov said:


> Ancient it does sound, though no more than the US TOW, but the HJ-8 is still in service as the main missile on the PLA helicopters.



Wrong. I'll let others to correct you.


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## cnleio

Junaid B said:


> No cockpit pictures of J-31?


Cockpit pics at 35 page, #520 ... China next-gen fighter cockpit simulator, J-31's cockpit also developed from that.


----------



## Donatello

SvenSvensonov said:


> Ancient it does sound, though no more than the US TOW, but the HJ-8 is still in service as the main missile on the PLA helicopters.
> 
> 
> It looks good, but the rear aspect stealth is compromised by the shape of the engine nozzle, and that fact that there are two engines which will increase the heat signature of the J-31. From the front is it looks awesome, but I have a question about its RAM. Does the J-31 use a RAM paint like the F-22, F-117 and B-2, RAM paints which are expensive and difficult to maintain, or does it used a baked-in RAM coating like the F-35? Also a cockpit view would be very welcomed.



These are prototypes and technology demonstrators, akin to the YFs in F-22 program. Final product will be more mature of course. There is no production timeline available, as it still in testing phase.


----------



## cnleio

SvenSvensonov said:


> It looks good, but the rear aspect stealth is compromised by the shape of the engine nozzle, and that fact that there are two engines which will increase the heat signature of the J-31. From the front is it looks awesome, but I have a question about its RAM. Does the J-31 use a RAM paint like the F-22, F-117 and B-2, RAM paints which are expensive and difficult to maintain, or does it used a baked-in RAM coating like the F-35? Also a cockpit view would be very welcomed. The J-31 trainer pictures you posted make the trainer look older... at least when compared to the F-35's trainer.


Current J-31 as same as YF-35 situation, not the final version, some rumor said the formal name will called J-21.

1. The engine nozzle problem will wait for domestic WS-13 out, current Russia RD-93 just like that.
2. We know nothing about China RAM paint, no read any official news yet.
3. Cockpit pics at 35 page, #520 ... China next-gen fighter cockpit simulator, after 11.11 open day we will see more details.

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## chauvunist

cnleio said:


> A good stealth fighter, J-31 ?
> 
> 
> View attachment 148436
> View attachment 148437
> View attachment 148438
> View attachment 148440




Queen of the show along with HJ-12...

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## cnleio

@SvenSvensonov

1. We r waiting China domestic vector jet engine out to install on J-31 or J-20 ... it still in test










2. It's 2012 ZhuHai Air Show displayed China next-gen fighter cockpit simulater_v1.0, 2014 it update to v2.0, after 11.11 see more v2.0 pics.









2012 v1.0 compared with F-35

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## Ultima Thule

cnleio said:


> A good stealth fighter, J-31 ?
> 
> 
> View attachment 148436
> View attachment 148437
> View attachment 148438
> View attachment 148440


better than J-20


----------



## mike2000

cnleio said:


> @SvenSvensonov
> 
> 1. We r waiting China domestic vector jet engine out to install on J-31 or J-20 ... it still in test
> View attachment 148502
> 
> View attachment 148503
> 
> 
> 
> 2. It's 2012 ZhuHai Air Show displayed China next-gen fighter cockpit simulater_v1.0, 2014 it update to v2.0, after 11.11 see more v2.0 pics.
> View attachment 148504
> 
> View attachment 148505
> 
> 
> 2012 v1.0 compared with F-35
> View attachment 148508



Looks Good/decent enough.Keep the pics coming bro, nice one.

Is the J-31 just for export, or will it also be used by China's own air force as well?

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## cnleio

mike2000 said:


> Is the J-31 just for export, or will it also be used by China's own air force as well?


Current project situation, J-31 == YF-35 not the final version yet ... so maybe yes or no, at least it's sure J-31 project for export.


----------



## cnleio

J-10S fighters of China "Auguest 1st" aerobatics team on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Continue 39 page, #572 ... 
A good stealth fighter, J-31 ?
















 


CASC show the final version of J-31 v2.0 mockup on ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Two USAF C-17s arrived ZhuHai Airport

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> Two USAF C-17s arrived ZhuHai Airport
> 
> View attachment 148532


Both from UAE?


----------



## BDforever

cnleio said:


> Two USAF C-17s arrived ZhuHai Airport
> 
> View attachment 148532


so, USA told South Korea not to participate in the show and South Korea agreed, then USA send its C-17 to participate in the show

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## Beast

BDforever said:


> so, USA told South Korea not to participate in the show and South Korea agreed, then USA send its C-17 to participate in the show


So true.

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## cnleio

Beast said:


> Both from UAE?


See Logo ==> U.S Air Force....


----------



## monitor

russian su-35 in zhuhai airshow 2014


----------



## cnleio

PLAAF serving attack UAV: "Attack - I" (Export version name: "YiLong - I")

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## BDforever

cnleio said:


> PLAAF serving attack UAV: "Attack - I" (Export version name: "YiLong - I")
> 
> 
> View attachment 148534
> 
> View attachment 148535
> 
> View attachment 148536
> 
> View attachment 148537
> 
> View attachment 148538
> 
> View attachment 148539


so u will export it ? 

Come on BD... buy it

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## Genesis

mike2000 said:


> Beautiful women always swing my doors.
> 
> Joke.....


called it.


----------



## cnleio

Large photos of Su-35 fighter show

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## Aepsilons

mike2000 said:


> Beautiful women always swing my doors.
> 
> Joke.....



buahahahaha! Oh Mike, i think we agree on this.


----------



## Aepsilons

cnleio said:


> J-10S fighters of China "Auguest 1st" aerobatics team on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show
> 
> View attachment 148520
> 
> View attachment 148513
> 
> View attachment 148522
> 
> View attachment 148523
> 
> View attachment 148524



You guys are killing us ! Twofold beauty: the plane and the woman! Wo ai nee Zhongguo + Zhongguoren

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## cnleio

@Nihonjin1051 This is very funny ... lol

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## Speeder 2

Zhuhai show...oke, oke...

NOW


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## Max Pain

mike2000 said:


> Beautiful women always swing my doors.
> 
> Joke.....



yeah man, good sense of humor,
LADIES MAN


----------



## j20blackdragon

*Chinese SDB *

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## Muhammad Omar

cnleio said:


> @Nihonjin1051 This is very funny ... lol
> 
> View attachment 148549
> 
> View attachment 148550
> 
> View attachment 148551
> 
> View attachment 148552
> 
> View attachment 148553
> 
> View attachment 148554
> 
> View attachment 148555
> 
> View attachment 148556
> 
> View attachment 148557



 pokemon and angry bird

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## Aepsilons

cnleio said:


> @Nihonjin1051 This is very funny ... lol
> 
> View attachment 148549
> 
> View attachment 148550
> 
> View attachment 148551
> 
> View attachment 148552
> 
> View attachment 148553
> 
> View attachment 148554
> 
> View attachment 148555
> 
> View attachment 148556
> 
> View attachment 148557




Buahahahahaha! I love it! They even have Doraemon, too?? 

Love it!

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## farhan_9909

where is JF-17?


----------



## j20blackdragon

Chinese JSOW






Another Chinese SDB?

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## siegecrossbow

SvenSvensonov said:


> It looks good, but the rear aspect stealth is compromised by the shape of the engine nozzle, and that fact that there are two engines which will increase the heat signature of the J-31. From the front is it looks awesome, but I have a question about its RAM. Does the J-31 use a RAM paint like the F-22, F-117 and B-2, RAM paints which are expensive and difficult to maintain, or does it used a baked-in RAM coating like the F-35? Also a cockpit view would be very welcomed. The J-31 trainer pictures you posted make the trainer look older... at least when compared to the F-35's trainer.



Probably similar RAM paint as the one used on J-20 2011.


----------



## Abingdonboy

cnleio said:


> @SvenSvensonov
> 
> 1. We r waiting China domestic vector jet engine out to install on J-31 or J-20 ... it still in test
> View attachment 148502
> 
> View attachment 148503
> 
> 
> 
> 2. It's 2012 ZhuHai Air Show displayed China next-gen fighter cockpit simulater_v1.0, 2014 it update to v2.0, after 11.11 see more v2.0 pics.
> View attachment 148504
> 
> View attachment 148505
> 
> 
> 2012 v1.0 compared with F-35
> View attachment 148508


What HMDS is China developing for the J-31/J-20?


----------



## mike2000

j20blackdragon said:


> Chinese JSOW
> 
> View attachment 148578
> 
> 
> Another Chinese SDB?
> 
> View attachment 148579



The first pic, that's a first joint standoff weapon? anymore infos/specs of this new weapon?


----------



## Kompromat

mike2000 said:


> The first pic, that's a first joint standoff weapon? anymore infos/specs of this new weapon?



Its not. Its an aerial dispenser.


----------



## razgriz19

cnleio said:


> JF-17 assembly before ZhuHai Air Show open
> 
> View attachment 148289
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW What's this plane ? So cute ~!
> 
> View attachment 148290



Piaggio Avanti!

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## SvenSvensonov

Horus said:


> Its not. Its an aerial dispenser.



The JSOW is also an aerial dispenser... in its AGM-154A variant which dispenses 145 combined effect bomblets (The CEB is a combined anti-armor and anti-personal grenade). The AGM-154B is the anti-armor versions that dispenses 6 bomblets, while the AGM-154C is the unitary warhead variant. So the Chinese system is an analogue of the US JSOW, but only one version of it... assuming that the information we have been presented with by the Chinese is accurate.

Information on the JSOW taken from AGM-154A Joint Standoff Weapon [JSOW] - Smart Weapons

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## dlclong




----------



## Zarvan

j20blackdragon said:


> Chinese JSOW
> 
> View attachment 148578
> 
> 
> Another Chinese SDB?
> 
> View attachment 148579


Chinese JSOW is new Chinese Cruise Missile ?


----------



## SvenSvensonov

Zarvan said:


> Chinese JSOW is new Chinese Cruise Missile ?



No, if it's like the US JSOW then its a long-range glide-bomb instead of a cruise missile. The JSOW is unpowered, but I have no doubts that the PLA is also developing its own version of the JASSM, which is a cruise missile. However, there is a JSOW-ER which is powered.

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## Kompromat

SvenSvensonov said:


> No, if it's like the US JSOW then its a long-range glide-bomb instead of a cruise missile. The JSOW is unpowered, but I have no doubts that the PLA is also developing its own version of the JASSM, which is a cruise missile. However, there is a JSOW-ER which is powered.



It should be used for Pizza delivery

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## cnleio

j20blackdragon said:


> *Chinese SDB *
> View attachment 148561
> View attachment 148562
> View attachment 148563


Yes, in 2012 ZhuHai Air Show they had displayed China SDB : CM-506KG smart bomb.
I think this time China SDB will display again on ZhuHai Show. 

CM-506KG













U.S GBU-39 SDB test pic

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## cnleio

razgriz19 said:


> Piaggio Avanti!


Thank you very much ! 

Wiki Piaggio P.180 Avanti


----------



## cirr

Mars exploration：

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## cirr

SR5

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## cnleio

China J-10S and female pilot on 2014 ZhuHai Show

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## cirr

AR3

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## cnleio

China Poly's 07PD 8x8 105mm assault gun

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## cirr

SkyDragon-12 Surface-to-Air Missile System

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## cnleio

China JY-26 anti-stealth radar, M-wave phased array radar 







Other phased array radars on 2014 ZhuHai Show

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## cirr

FB-10 Surface-to-Air Missile System：

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## cirr

cnleio said:


> China JY-26 anti-stealth radar, M-wave phased array radar
> 
> View attachment 148655
> 
> 
> 
> Other phased array radars on 2014 ZhuHai Show
> 
> View attachment 148657
> 
> View attachment 148658
> 
> 
> View attachment 148659



One more：

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> One more：
> 
> View attachment 148663


LOL ... on 2014-ZhuHai Air Show, all phased array radars & M-wave phased array radars specially present for foreign stealth fighter ...

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## cnleio

China FM-3000 air-defense system, China version S350(9M96) & China version ESSM anti-aircraft missile

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## xueri

BDforever said:


> so, USA told South Korea not to participate in the show and South Korea agreed, then USA send its C-17 to participate in the show


Typical American.

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## aliaselin

FC-31, no J-31

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## bobsm



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## cnleio

China Aerospace Science & Industry, 2014-ZhuHai Air Show 
CZ rocket mockup, rocket engine, spy satellite, data links, launcher, lunar rover etc ...

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## cirr

cnleio said:


> LOL ... on 2014-ZhuHai Air Show, all phased array radars & M-wave phased array radars specially present for foreign stealth fighter ...



据该专家透露称JY-26曾经还看到过F-22，并对其进行了监视。当时把该款雷达部署在山东，当F-22在韩国飞行的时候整个过程都在该雷达监控范围内。现在JY-26雷达出现在珠海航展上，可以看出中国的雷达技术一定有了更高的水平，也将会在未来给解放军更大优势。

中国新型相控阵雷达有两绝技 美军F-22尽收眼底

Movements of F-22 once stationed in South Korea closely followed and monitored every step of the way from start to finish。


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## cnleio

cirr said:


> 据该专家透露称JY-26曾经还看到过F-22，并对其进行了监视。当时把该款雷达部署在山东，当F-22在韩国飞行的时候整个过程都在该雷达监控范围内。现在JY-26雷达出现在珠海航展上，可以看出中国的雷达技术一定有了更高的水平，也将会在未来给解放军更大优势。
> 
> 中国新型相控阵雷达有两绝技 美军F-22尽收眼底
> 
> Movements of F-22 once stationed in South Korea closely followed and monitored every step of the way from start to finish。


Hope the truth, it's better if there's news to prove it.


----------



## cirr

Engine R & D making all-round progresses：

全新“太行”发动机珠海对决117S！_军事图库_中华网

中航筹百亿巨资研多款发动机 或装备于跨代平台：11月10日，第十届中国航展开幕前日，中航工业在珠海召开新闻发布会，中航工业董事长林左鸣等领导发表讲话，中航工业与会领导回答了环球军事记者的提问。

中航工业称，关于发动机，全国上下都很关注，网上的负面消息很多，举例来说，太行发动机连续参加航展，引起关注，经过数年在使用中的历练，目前也逐步成熟，我们在刻苦努力，解决在使用过程中暴露的问题，成熟是一种过程，离稳定的第三代发动机距离不远。

*中航工业在谈到发动机研制情况时，强调已自筹百亿资金进行研发，正在研制多款发动机，很多型号都进展不错，将来有望装备到先进的、跨代的平台上，至于具体信息，很抱歉无法透露。*

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## Azeri440

cirr said:


> 据该专家透露称JY-26曾经还看到过F-22，并对其进行了监视。当时把该款雷达部署在山东，当F-22在韩国飞行的时候整个过程都在该雷达监控范围内。现在JY-26雷达出现在珠海航展上，可以看出中国的雷达技术一定有了更高的水平，也将会在未来给解放军更大优势。
> 
> 中国新型相控阵雷达有两绝技 美军F-22尽收眼底
> 
> Movements of F-22 once stationed in South Korea closely followed and monitored every step of the way from start to finish。



you realize stealth is not invisible , it just makes the target appear smaller and at a shorter distance

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## cirr

Enough pics，time for a bit of a video：

中国超暴力防务系统亮相 曝光大批敏感参数 - 搜狐视频

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## monitor




----------



## j20blackdragon

100 kg Chinese SDB

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## cirr

AC3X2 Helicopter 


























Look who‘s in there！

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> AC3X2 Helicopter
> 
> View attachment 148754
> 
> 
> View attachment 148757
> 
> 
> View attachment 148758
> 
> 
> View attachment 148759
> 
> 
> View attachment 148760
> 
> 
> Look who‘s in there！


HA ... aircraft maker from my hometown ... this's richman's toy not for Army.

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## aliaselin

Why there is not any pictures for products from the 8th aerospace science and technology institution?

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## cnleio

This is Weapon Plaza

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## cnleio

This is Weapon Plaza

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## cnleio

This is Weapon Plaza

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## cnleio

This is Weapon Plaza

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## cnleio

This is Weapon Plaza

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## cirr

J-21 tail-end：

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## cnleio

JF-17 fighter ground display on ZhuHai Air Show

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## cirr



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## PakGuns

Nihonjin1051 said:


> View attachment 148220
> 
> 
> View attachment 148221
> 
> 
> _你好。华丽的淑女！_


gimme that... that one thing

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## cnleio

China HQ-9 export version: FD-2000 long-range air-defense system

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> View attachment 148843
> 
> 
> View attachment 148845
> 
> 
> View attachment 148851


This more looks like a F-35A ...


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## zaid butt

cirr said:


> View attachment 148843
> 
> 
> View attachment 148845
> 
> 
> View attachment 148851


what is photo 3 
i mean name and purpose of this thing


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## cirr

aliaselin said:


> Why there is not any pictures for products from the 8th aerospace science and technology institution?



I haven't seen anything from Poly Technologies either。

It is supposed to bring 16 pieces of top-notch equipments。


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## cnleio

China ESSM export version: FD-3000 medium-range air-defense system  
Navy 052D/055 DDG's VLS can install 4x ESSM missiles in one cell ... GREAT !

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## PakGuns

PakGuns said:


> gimme that... that one thing


does it come with ToT ??


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## cirr

zaid butt said:


> what is photo 3
> i mean name and purpose of this thing



EOTS 

F-35 Lightning II Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS) · Lockheed Martin


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## In arduis fidelis

cnleio said:


> JF-17 fighter ground display on ZhuHai Air Show
> 
> View attachment 148834
> View attachment 148835
> View attachment 148836
> View attachment 148837
> View attachment 148838
> View attachment 148840
> View attachment 148841


Why block I??


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## cirr

WS-3D 400mm rocket-assisted long-distance precision strike system for *land、surface and underwater targets














*

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## cnleio

2014 ZhuHai Air Show == A Party Day in ZhuHai, Thanks all photos by Chinese military fans

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## cnleio

2014 ZhuHai Air Show == A Party Day in ZhuHai, Thanks all photos by Chinese military fans

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## Muhammad Omar

cnleio said:


> JF-17 fighter ground display on ZhuHai Air Show
> 
> View attachment 148834
> View attachment 148835
> View attachment 148836
> View attachment 148837
> View attachment 148838
> View attachment 148840
> View attachment 148841

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## 帅的一匹

from the J31 new model shown above, I can judge that PLAAF will take it seriously and finally induct it. the era of China is coming!

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## razgriz19

飞豹机载布撒武器曝光 投放子弹药摧毁敌机场_凤凰军事

video!!

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## cirr



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## Hurter

Some great development by China.. Proud of have you as our friend

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## Stealth

*After watching this thread.. even I am Pakistan but ***** blasted loll... just imagin the Indianz ... how they feel LOLZzzzzz.... Man fuking AWESOME Military hardware you guyz are making... Chinaaaaaaaaa - BOOOOOOOOM!! After F22, The look and feel of J31 is DAMNNNNNNNNN SEXY, AGGRESSIVE, Deadly!*

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## Muhammad Omar

cirr said:


> View attachment 148927
> 
> 
> View attachment 148928
> 
> 
> View attachment 148930
> 
> 
> View attachment 148931
> 
> 
> View attachment 148932



O man this looks Awsome....

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## Zarvan

Stealth said:


> *After watching this thread.. even I am Pakistan but ***** blasted loll... just imagin the Indianz ... how they feel LOLZzzzzz.... Man fuking AWESOME Military hardware you guyz are making... Chinaaaaaaaaa - BOOOOOOOOM!! After F22, The look and feel of J31 is DAMNNNNNNNNN SEXY, AGGRESSIVE, Deadly!*


Yes Jets and Tanks and anti Tank and ships and submarines and many more India in next few years will not be even close to China

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## Beast

Zarvan said:


> Yes Jets and Tanks and anti Tank and ships and submarines and many more India in next few years will not be even close to China



Another 2-3 years time. China will be 100% self sufficient in manufacturing any military peer hardware with US.

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## Arsalan

Have seen the FC-31 video, a few things i noticed are:

The plane is flying with RD-33 engines as shown in video and there is lots of black smoke
the take off distance was decently short
the plane goes into a roll maneuver straight after take-off.
and overall, disappointed that JF-17 is participating only in static display. This gives the message that Pakistan and China have both given up on export prospects of JF-17, which is not the case. These things do not help much marketing wise.

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## Bratva

So much weaponry on display but not a single sight of Electronic warfare pods or EO/IR WMD 7 type pods ?


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## Beast

Bratva said:


> So much weaponry on display but not a single sight of Electronic warfare pods or EO/IR WMD 7 type pods ?


There is, please look back more carefully.


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## ChineseLuver

cirr said:


> View attachment 148927
> 
> 
> View attachment 148928
> 
> 
> View attachment 148930
> 
> 
> View attachment 148931
> 
> 
> View attachment 148932



i need to see this baby do a demo flight


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## PakGuns

cnleio said:


> 2014 ZhuHai Air Show == A Party Day in ZhuHai, Thanks all photos by Chinese military fans
> 
> View attachment 148889
> 
> View attachment 148890
> 
> View attachment 148891
> 
> View attachment 148892
> 
> View attachment 148893
> 
> View attachment 148894
> 
> View attachment 148895
> 
> View attachment 148896
> 
> View attachment 148897
> 
> View attachment 148898


We should assemble them with ToT no matter what it takes for us  we need those permaru hathyar to smoke india down in ashes...  we need, we need, we need them all

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## nomi007

this airshow tells the value of india near china
well done china


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## Bilal.

I am a bit disappointed that unlike last year there are no specs on the posters. So many beautiful weapons system but no specs

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## nomi007




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## xueri

wanglaokan said:


> from the J31 new model shown above, I can judge that PLAAF will take it seriously and finally induct it. the era of China is coming!


难度还是不小的
关键资金问题更重要
所以这届沈飞确实挺拼的


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## cnleio

Bratva said:


> So much weaponry on display but not a single sight of Electronic warfare pods or EO/IR WMD 7 type pods ?


Electronic pods install on JH-7A / J-10A fighter ... at the bottom of plane, u can see back.


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## cnleio

AirBus A380 on ZhuHai Air Show





















U.S AirForce C-17 at ZhuHai airport

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## Bratva

cnleio said:


> Electronic pods install on JH-7A / J-10A fighter ... at the bottom of plane, u can see back.



No rumor of next Generation EW or EO/IR pod in making? It's time to upgrade WMD-7 and KG-3000 to levels of Sniper XR and AQ-121 AIDEWS

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## j20blackdragon

Production J-31 model on full display.









One-piece frameless canopy, EOTS, and the outline of the aerial refueling probe door are visible.






F-35/J-20 style EOTS under the nose.









Chinese engines with sawtooth nozzles. I've been waiting a LONG time to see this.






Fully redesigned vertical stabilizer.

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## ChineseLuver

j20blackdragon said:


> Production J-31 model on full display.
> 
> View attachment 149067
> 
> View attachment 149068
> 
> One-piece frameless canopy, EOTS, and the outline of the aerial refueling probe door are visible.
> 
> View attachment 149069
> 
> 
> F-35/J-20 style EOTS under the nose.
> 
> View attachment 149070
> 
> View attachment 149071
> 
> Chinese engines with sawtooth nozzles. I've been waiting a LONG time to see this.
> 
> View attachment 149072
> 
> 
> Fully redesigned vertical stabilizer.
> 
> View attachment 149073



and the landing gears are redesigned


----------



## cnleio

Bratva said:


> No rumor of next Generation EW or EO/IR pod in making? It's time to upgrade WMD-7 and KG-3000 to levels of Sniper XR and AQ-121 AIDEWS


I think we should wait for pics after 11.11 open day, there will be more pics from Exhibition halls of 2014-ZhuHai Air Show.


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## cnleio

Beautiful Su-35 photos

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## cnleio

After 30 years, U.S AirForce 2nd time sending military aircraft to attend China Air Show 
(1984 F-16A of the U. S. Air ForceThunderbirds aerobatics team in BeiJing )

11.10 night, C-17 in ZhuHai airport pics

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## cnleio

Chinese military fans are ready for 11.11 open day  
China Strong !!!

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## cnleio

Bratva said:


> No rumor of next Generation EW or EO/IR pod in making? It's time to upgrade WMD-7 and KG-3000 to levels of Sniper XR and AQ-121 AIDEWS


I find WMD-7 EO/IR pod pic here

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## bolo

400 yuan for show..wow it's not bad price to attend.


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## Muhammad Omar

cnleio said:


> Chinese military fans are ready for 11.11 open day
> China Strong !!!
> 
> View attachment 149090



we are also waiting for more pics

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## cnleio

My favorite HJ-12 Top Attack anti-tank missile, more pics

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## Kompromat

FC-31 initial analysis. Made by Me.

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## mike2000

Wow going through this thread indeed made me realise the Chinese are really coming up with top notch/world class weapon sytems. Im surprised by this, since i never knew they produced so many different weapons systems like the ones im seeing here. Guess in a decade from now, all their weapons systems would have matured by then, will be interesting to see how things play out by then. Guess the power balance in Asia will change/is changing much faster than we had expected. 

By the way, Chinese members here, i have a question, i red somehwere (cant remember which site) that your TL-50 or Sky Dragon 50 air defense missiles(which is displaid somewhere in this thread) was sold to Rwanda recently? Is it true? If yes, how much do you think such a system costs? Since im not sure a country like small country like Rwanda can afford such a system.

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## Kompromat

mike2000 said:


> Wow going through this thread indeed made me realise the Chinese are really coming up with top notch/world class weapon sytems. Im surprised by this, since i never knew they produced so many different weapons systems like the ones im seeing here. Guess in a decade from now, all their weapons systems would have matured by then, will be interesting to see how things play out by then. Guess the power balance in Asia will change/is changing much faster than we had expected.
> 
> By the way, Chinese members here, i have a question, i red somehwere (cant remember which site) that your TL-50 or Sky Dragon 50 air defense missiles(which is displaid somewhere in this thread) was sold to Rwanda recently? Is it true? If yes, how much do you think such a system costs? Since im not sure a country like small country like Rwanda can afford such a system.



Chinese will never give you a price tag. And the Skydragon is essentially a Surface to Air variant of SD-10A BVRAAM.

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## Akasa

Horus said:


> FC-31 initial analysis. Made by Me.
> 
> View attachment 149190



Can somebody provide a brief explanation of the advantages clipped wings would bring to the stealth?


----------



## DoTell

mike2000 said:


> Wow going through this thread indeed made me realise the Chinese are really coming up with top notch/world class weapon sytems. Im surprised by this, since i never knew they produced so many different weapons systems like the ones im seeing here. Guess in a decade from now, all their weapons systems would have matured by then, will be interesting to see how things play out by then. Guess the power balance in Asia will change/is changing much faster than we had expected.
> 
> By the way, Chinese members here, i have a question, i red somehwere (cant remember which site) that your TL-50 or Sky Dragon 50 air defense missiles(which is displaid somewhere in this thread) was sold to Rwanda recently? Is it true? If yes, how much do you think such a system costs? Since im not sure a country like small country like Rwanda can afford such a system.



Hard to believe we "stole" and "copied" so much in such a short time, isn't it? 30 years and how we do things still "surprise" people outside China, thanks to the China hater media. But smear and lie telling won't stop us. We just keep charging along. Instead of proclaiming we are going to do this do that, or we will become this and that, we just do it and let the result speak for itself.

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## mike2000

Horus said:


> Chinese will never give you a price tag. And the Skydragon is essentially a Surface to Air variant of SD-10A BVRAAM.



Ok i see, But i also red that, the TL-50/sky dragon has not entered service in China, as the PLA instead choosed the HQ-16 as its current standard air defense missile. Is this true?


----------



## qwerrty

cockpit

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## Malik Alashter

I think chinese military products will have before and after this air show in price tag.

after the show they will be more expensive and looked at as a world class while before htey were cheaper and looked at as inferior to the west and russian products.

plus this show will bring a lot if attention world wide. that's mean more business.

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## Beast

mike2000 said:


> Ok i see, But i also red that, the TL-50/sky dragon has not entered service in China, as the PLA instead choosed the HQ-16 as its current standard air defense missile. Is this true?



HQ-7 low HQ-16 medium HQ-9 high


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## Jguo

August 1st aerobatic team female pilots interviewed.







Marketing video for various defence/comms systems







PLAAF Munitions

中航武器系统宣传片：中国空军主力导弹曝光-20141110凤凰视频-凤凰视频-最具媒体品质的综合视频门户-凤凰网

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## Steakhouse

China spent close to a trillions dollars in the last 7 yrs to build up their military, more money, human resource invest into military industry for R&d weapons research, China bound to come up with top of the line weapons in addition with China manufacture base and surplus human labor.


----------



## cirr

Anti-tank weapons，15 pics：

反坦克利器集体亮相 红箭12最抢眼 - 室内展馆图集 - 航空网


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon



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## cnleio

mike2000 said:


> Ok i see, But i also red that, the TL-50/sky dragon has not entered service in China, as the PLA instead choosed the HQ-16 as its current standard air defense missile. Is this true?


PLA Army had equiped HQ-9 and HQ-16 for many years, TL-50/sky is a special export-version missile not serving in PLA. PLAN also equiped them but named HHQ-9 and HHQ-16 in 052C and 054A class VLS.

It's easy to remember these China missiles, it's usually that once PLA formally equip the missile it will named as "HQ-xxx" or "HJ-xxx" in China, other names like "TianLong" etc mean just export version missile or weapon.

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## cnleio

China HQ-16 medium range air-defense system on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

China FK-3 medium range air-defense system on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

*FK-3 missile range 50~100 km*


> 11月10日，中国最新FK-3防空导弹亮相珠海航展准备前夕。由于该导弹过于神秘，技术参数只能依靠外媒的报道：射程50-100公里、射高5-27公里。采用4联装发射。

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## cnleio

FL-1000 air-defense & land assault system, RCWS

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## cnleio

Two China RCWS display on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

UW4 30mm RCWS















New 7.62mm + grenade launcher RCWS

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## cnleio

@SvenSvensonov

2014 ZhuHai Air Show, China next-gen fighter cockpit simulator v2.0




















FC-31 v2.0 mockup

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## cnleio

@Nihonjin1051
China HJ-12 Top Attack anti-tank missile & launcher

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## tarrar

Horus said:


> FC-31 initial analysis. Made by Me.
> 
> View attachment 149190



Now that's what I really wanted to see.


----------



## tarrar

cnleio said:


> @SvenSvensonov
> 
> 2014 ZhuHai Air Show, China next-gen fighter cockpit simulator v2.0
> 
> View attachment 149290
> 
> View attachment 149291
> 
> View attachment 149292
> 
> View attachment 149293
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FC-31 v2.0 mockup
> 
> View attachment 149294
> 
> View attachment 149295
> 
> View attachment 149296
> 
> View attachment 149297
> 
> View attachment 149298



The shape & design of J31 has changed alot & it looks really good.


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## tarrar

cnleio said:


> @Nihonjin1051
> China HJ-12 Top Attack anti-tank missile & launcher
> 
> View attachment 149300
> 
> View attachment 149301
> 
> View attachment 149302
> 
> View attachment 149303



PA needs to look into this & should go for it.


----------



## tarrar

cnleio said:


> FL-1000 air-defense & land assault system, RCWS
> 
> View attachment 149261
> 
> View attachment 149262
> 
> View attachment 149263
> 
> View attachment 149264
> 
> View attachment 149265
> 
> View attachment 149266
> 
> View attachment 149267
> 
> View attachment 149268
> 
> View attachment 149269
> 
> View attachment 149270



Amazing. PA needs to replace their useless vehicles with proper Military vehicles & this here is the right option for PA.


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## tarrar

The right choice for PA to strengthen their Air defence HQ-19 & FK-3.


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## Zarvan

cnleio said:


> FL-1000 air-defense & land assault system, RCWS
> 
> View attachment 149261
> 
> View attachment 149262
> 
> View attachment 149263
> 
> View attachment 149264
> 
> View attachment 149265
> 
> View attachment 149266
> 
> View attachment 149267
> 
> View attachment 149268
> 
> View attachment 149269
> 
> View attachment 149270


We we need lot of Air Defense systems

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## tarrar

After watching all the pics, I must say China has been working really hard to strengthen their Military power & these pics are the prove of their military might. Surely more is on the way.

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## tarrar

Zarvan said:


> We we need lot of Air Defense systems



We sure do, HQ 19 & FK3 should be on the top of the list.

Also what do you think about these Chinese military vehicles which are the best option to replace PA's current useless vehicles?


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## SvenSvensonov

cnleio said:


> @SvenSvensonov



That simulator looks nice!!! I do hope that when it is put into operational use the person in the cockpit is situated a bit closer to the screens though, they seem a bit too far away in this mockup. Very modern, very good looking! The FC-31 looks great too and I hope this is the look it will take when finally put into production. The cropped tail is amazing. So sleek, so curvy, very nice looking aircraft. My only criticism at this point (well air-frame criticism as nothing on the avionics is going to be released anytime soon, so I can't scrutinize those) is that the aircraft looks a bit squashed. It's vertical width (the distance between the top and the bottom) doesn't seem to be too large and this will limit internal fuel and weapons capacity. That being said, it both systems look awesome and the next step is to get them into production as fast as is possible!

Time to start saving up some money, I want one of those simulators for myself . Oh, and thanks for the continued pics, now I want to be there myself next year.

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## 帅的一匹

tarrar said:


> After watching all the pics, I must say China has been working really hard to strengthen their Military power & these pics are the prove of their military might. Surely more is on the way.


PA want some HJ12? really good stuff to go along with.

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## 帅的一匹

tarrar said:


> The right choice for PA to strengthen their Air defence HQ-19 & FK-3.


Too many weapons alternative makes Pakistan army a selection headache.

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## cnleio

Zarvan said:


> We we need lot of Air Defense systems


From FD-3000 (China version ESSM/S350) to FD-2000 (China HQ-9 export), FK-3, HQ-16, TL-50 ... China can provide all long/medium/short-range air-defense systems & missiles. China also has different kinds of phased array radars.

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## cnleio

SvenSvensonov said:


> That simulator looks nice!!! I do hope that when it is put into operational use the person in the cockpit is situated a bit closer to the screens though, they seem a bit too far away in this mockup. Very modern, very good looking! The FC-31 looks great too and I hope this is the look it will take when finally put into production. The cropped tail is amazing. So sleek, so curvy, very nice looking aircraft. My only criticism at this point (well air-frame criticism as nothing on the avionics is going to be released anytime soon, so I can't scrutinize those) is that the aircraft looks a bit squashed. It's vertical width (the distance between the top and the bottom) doesn't seem to be too large and this will limit internal fuel and weapons capacity. That being said, it both systems look awesome and the next step is to get them into production as fast as is possible!
> 
> Time to start saving up some money, I want one of those simulators for myself . Oh, and thanks for the continued pics, now I want to be there myself next year.


As far as i knew, after this ZhuHai Air Show SAC will focus on building 2nd & 3rd FC-31 prototypes updating to v2.0 design ... if CASC can get interests from some foreign customers it will start FC-31 mass production project before 2020. Another question is whether PLAAF will equip FC-31 as 2nd China stealth fighter ? We r not sure yet, it need wait for further news about FC-31 development inside CASC.

Next ZhuHai Air Show will hold at 2016 year (Each two years), also 11.11~11.16. My suggestion is u can plan a long travel to China ... ... HongKong ==> ShenZhen city ==> ZhuHai city, SheKou port of ShenZhen has the ferry sail to ZhuHai, spend half hour on sea. Or HongKong ==> Macao ==> ZhuHai city, HongKong also has the ferry sail to Macao.

After Air Show u can continue travel to GuangZhou city of GuangDong province or HaiKou city / ShanYa city of HaiNan province, there'r the same distance far away from the ZhuHai City. GuangZhou city is the center of South China, HaiNan is China California there's sunshin & seabeach & bikini.

And ... before u decide to attend next ZhuHai Air Show, buy the ticket on the internet (400RMB for adult, 200RMB for child) u can ask help from travel agency. 11.11~11.13 is the Professional Day ticket for journalists or experts, not easy to get it. 11.14~11.16 is the Public Day most normal tickets on internet for these days.

Good Luck, bro ~!

BTW ZhuHai airport where Air Show held is 13km away from the ZhuHai city, go there early or traffic jam when too many visiters on road to the Air Show.


The ZhuHai city pics

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## Beast

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Wow, Awesome military stuff . Is J16 participating(Any prototype)
> I wish we buy few bomb trucks like j16 in future, at-least one squadron.


J-16 is not for sale. We have an agreement with Russian not to export any sukhoi-27 heritage fighter.

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## cnleio

China SY-300 MLRS on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

China "Excalibur" WS-35 155mm rocket-assisted guided cartridge, BeiDou GPS guide & fire range 100km for 155mm howitzer


> 据加拿大《汉和防务评论》最新一期报道，中国长征贸易进出口公司（ALMT）刚刚披露了一款编号为“WS-35”的155毫米口径精确制导炮弹，其射程竟然达到100千米，几乎与近程弹道导弹有得一拼，但无论成本还是使用弹性都占尽优势。文章称，近日，ALMT在东南亚武器展上公开推出了供155毫米榴弹炮发射的WS-35式制导炮弹。发射该炮弹的平台当属PLZ-05式自行火炮，它由兵器工业集团公司生产，而生产炮弹的ALMT则属于航天科技集团公司。文章援引ALMT武器展板称，WS-35炮弹有两种版本，但都采用GNSS/INS制导方式，尾部安装有四片安定翼，在弹头上也安装了四个安定翼，用于调整飞行姿态。该公司介绍说，WS-35基本型制导炮弹长1620毫米，重量18千克，理论射速为5发/分，储存时间为10年，其射程可达到100千米，命中误差为40米。从图片看，WS-35炮弹外型与美国的“亚瑟王神剑”制导炮弹颇为相似。据悉，亚瑟王神剑是美国陆军开发的第一款全球定位系统制导火炮弹药，是一种模块化弹药，分三种型号，其最大射程达到64千米，且非常精确，命中误差只有10-20米，与传统炮弹高达370米的命中误差相比，可谓是“百步穿杨”。从这个角度看，WS-35炮弹可谓“中国版亚瑟王神剑”。美国雷神公司联合瑞典Bofors公司研制出了一种配备有全球卫星定位系统(GPS)的新型炮弹，可用于摧毁在战场上出现的各种目标。由于其致命的打击能力，雷神和Bofors两家公司形象地将其称为“亚瑟王神剑。不过，文章对“中国版亚瑟王神剑”充满了怀疑，文章指出，即使采用火箭增程技术，目前国际上还没有开发出射程能达到100千米的GPS或GNASS卫星制导炮弹，现有产品的最大射程大致在22-60千米。文章甚至是怀疑是印刷错误，把“10千米”写成“100千米”。西方军界推测，从ALMT公开的炮弹图片分析，WS-35可能处于投产前期。考虑到WS-35所依赖的发射平台是仅装备解放军的PLZ-05式155毫米自行榴弹炮，未来它是否符合北约组织的技术范围，能否由西方155毫米口径火炮发射尚在争议之中，因此它的出口前景似乎也飘忽不定。不过，也有学者认为，WS-35具备100千米射程并非毫无可能，联系到推销该炮弹的是中国航天工业部门，依托其深厚的航空空气设计功底，为炮弹配备较好的滑翔弹翼，对弹体进行降阻设计，达到100千米的射程不是不可能。况且，中国自身远程炮弹制造能力就非常了得，现有的155毫米火炮上发射底部排气弹的射程就超过40千米，连美国军方都极为羡慕。从未来战争形态看，WS-35炮弹的问世，标志着中国陆军“非接触作战”水平将走在世界前列。此外，由于精确性的提高，可以大大降低炮弹消耗，使后勤压力得以减少。此外，该炮弹还具有改装为侦察炮弹的基础，届时，中国炮兵与美军的差距将大大缩小，甚至有所领先。外媒惊呼中国“‘WS-35’的155毫米口径精确制导炮弹，其射程竟然达到100千米，几乎与近程弹道导弹有得一拼，但无论成本还是使用弹性都占尽优势。”WS-35炮弹射程远、成本比导弹低，而且精准度高。可以大大降低炮弹消耗，使后勤压力得以减少。该炮弹还具有改装为侦察炮弹的基础这些优点，将中国炮兵与美军的差距将大大缩小。

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## cnleio

China FT family guided bomb




















China TL family air-to-surface missile

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## cnleio

China "JingHai" drone boat on 2014 ZhuHaI Air Show, BeiDou GPS & 20km remote range

*Future Navy attack drone*


> 环球军事记者发现了一款无人水面艇，这款无人艇由上海大学开发研制，目前已经配备在海巡166号在南海执行任务，据介绍，该艇可使用手动操控和自主航行双模操控，可在20公里距离超视距控制，自主躲避障碍物，使用北斗或GPS制导，应用潜力巨大。

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## Sasquatch

@cirr @cnleio @ChineseTiger1986 all Chinese members, look at this link. Great Pics.

How to attach images on PDF tutorial (new method)

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## longlong

cnleio said:


> China "JingHai" drone boat on 2014 ZhuHaI Air Show, BeiDou GPS & 20km remote range
> 
> *Future Navy attack drone*
> 
> 
> View attachment 149371







I will not be surprised to see this combination sooner of later.

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## longlong



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## aliaselin

中国FD2000防空导弹出口多国 一雪土耳其“前耻”_凤凰军事
FD-2000 has exported to more than one country, while Turkey is not included

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## Beast

aliaselin said:


> 中国FD2000防空导弹出口多国 一雪土耳其“前耻”_凤凰军事
> FD-2000 has exported to more than one country, while Turkey is not included


Maybe a few rich Arabs countries buy these system? North Africa friends are also quite rich like morocco or Algeria.

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## aliaselin

Beast said:


> Maybe a few rich Arabs countries buy these system? North Africa friends are also quite rich like morocco or Algeria.


Though Turkey does not buy our products, we should thank them for their excellent advertisement

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## 帅的一匹

aliaselin said:


> 中国FD2000防空导弹出口多国 一雪土耳其“前耻”_凤凰军事
> FD-2000 has exported to more than one country, while Turkey is not included


FD2000 fails in Turkey because NATO will kick their butt if they buy it.

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## Beast

The fact about these FD-2000 system is they are not cheap. Only those with decent budget countries could afford it.

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## aqdus

Hello everybody its an awesome thread and my heartiest congrats to my Chinese friends on such good power show. I just wanted to ask can anybody tell from all weapon shown i this show. Which are the weapons Pakistan will get in near future.

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## Malik Alashter

Beast said:


> The fact about these FD-2000 system is they are not cheap. Only those with decent budget countries could afford it.


How expensive compared to the Russian one?.


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## aliaselin

Video from CASC，including M20 and CX-1. Beautiful trajectory Also some new products including WS-43, WS-63
中国超暴力防务系统亮相 曝光大批敏感参数 - 搜狐视频

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## aliaselin

国产LY80导弹可拦截巡航导弹 多国感兴趣已出口_新闻_腾讯网
LY-80 has signed contract for export while more contracts are on negotiation

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## cirr

Pics of J-15 model with 11 hardpoints：

歼-15模型首次公开亮相 - 室内展馆图集 - 航空网

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## cirr

H680、H631 and H660 Wing-In-Ground Effects(WIGS)

中国版“里海怪物” 多款国产地效翼船曝光 - 室内展馆图集 - 航空网

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## GeHAC

cnleio said:


> China "Excalibur" WS-35 155mm rocket-assisted guided cartridge, BeiDou GPS guide & fire range 100km for 155mm howitzer
> 
> 
> View attachment 149353
> 
> View attachment 149354
> 
> View attachment 149355
> 
> View attachment 149356
> 
> View attachment 149357


Excalibur……OK I'm satisfied now

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## cirr

BNST-KT-02 Airship

Length：100m
Diametre：30m
Dead weight：13 tons
Payload：2 tons
Operating ceiling：7000m

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## longlong

cirr said:


> BNST-KT-02 Airship
> 
> Length：100m
> Diametre：30m
> Dead weight：13 tons
> Payload：2 tons
> Operating ceiling：7000m
> 
> View attachment 149555
> 
> 
> View attachment 149556


Is Zhuhai so cold?


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## aliaselin

The Republic of Congo has ordered three ARJ21-700
珠海航展订单：刚果（布）订购三架ARJ21-700-新闻频道-和讯网

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## aliaselin

Model showed JF-17 loaded with PL-8

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## Muhammad Omar

H680、H631 and H660 Wing-In-Ground Effects(WIGS)

Cirr posted the link i thought i should post the pics

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## Muhammad Omar



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## Muhammad Omar

_*ARJ-21
















*_

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## cirr

MA-700

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## Bussard Ramjet

How did Congo buy ARJ 21? 

1. Was it given for free to Congo?
Or
2. Was it bought using export credits or some kind of soft loans?
Or
3. Was it bought on heavy discount/price cuts?
Or 
4. On normal profitable prices?


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## onebyone

Good for China

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## Military fancier

Bussard Ramjet said:


> How did Congo buy ARJ 21?
> 
> 1. Was it given for free to Congo?
> Or
> 2. Was it bought using export credits or some kind of soft loans?
> Or
> 3. Was it bought on heavy discount/price cuts?
> Or
> 4. On normal profitable prices?


A case of sour grapes from a laggard?

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## onebyone

Bussard Ramjet said:


> How did Congo buy ARJ 21?
> 
> 1. Was it given for free to Congo?
> Or
> 2. Was it bought using export credits or some kind of soft loans?
> Or
> 3. Was it bought on heavy discount/price cuts?
> Or
> 4. On normal profitable prices?




meanwhile hinting to be tired


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## raazh

Beware USA .. The next decade belongs to China ..


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## pigtaker

Bussard Ramjet said:


> How did Congo buy ARJ 21?
> 
> 1. Was it given for free to Congo?
> Or
> 2. Was it bought using export credits or some kind of soft loans?
> Or
> 3. Was it bought on heavy discount/price cuts?
> Or
> 4. On normal profitable prices?


pick a answer yourself which make you feel the best.

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## GeHAC

Pulse control and canard control 122mm guided rocket.

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## GORKHALI

Can anyone tell me how many Regional Jets China is making ? Am lost in counting .

PS:I love the ARJ 21 ,perfect solutions for India airlines industries to connect with smaller towns(~50000 populations)


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## Bussard Ramjet

Military fancier said:


> A case of sour grapes from a laggard?



I have absolutely zero intentions to hurt or insult China, absolutely none. I have deep and profound respect for China, as a culture and civilization. My question, at no point, tried insinuating any kind of ill feelings.

Yes, India is way ahead of China, no doubt about that. But, you will also agree that China itself is, still, quite some distance from top manufacturers and the top end technology. No doubt the gap is decreasing, rather, at a very fast rate. Yet, still, ARJ 21 is among initial jet for China and also a platform to leap forward. Hence, quite understandably, China wants to promote their use. And here comes the idea to give many kinds of incentives to give away these planes.

China has done this a lot with Xian MA 60. With many countries, it has given away these planes for free, often both for promoting these planes, and also to get influence and good will from small countries.

Examples:
1. Tonga - 
Plane provided for free. 
(I can't put the links because being a new member, I can't)
2. Nepal
As I remember, (I may be wrong), 1 or 2 plane were given for free here as well.

Similarly for many countries. If you are not satisfied, I can cite many many more examples.

I am a new member here, and hence I want to reiterate again here, given the tense and unfortunate relationship I have witnessed between Indians and Chinese here, that, I have deep and profound respect for China. It's history, and the sheer resilience of its people. I am not the military kind. I am primarily a technology guy, who happens to be an amateur Sinologist, who loves India deeply, who wants genuinely a good relationship b/w these two great countries and civilizations.

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## Inception-06

Why the Jf-17 is only this year in the static display ?


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## PakEye

cnleio said:


> Good news, Su-35 fighter now in TaiYuan city airport next day will fly to ZhuHai airport
> Maybe 2014-ZhuHai Air Show will end years rumor of Sino-Russia Su-35 deal



Why China not using canard facility as Indian SU-30 MKI


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## HRK

SinoSoldier said:


> Any news or information on this mystery missile?
> View attachment 148173
> View attachment 148160



CM-704KG & CM 102 missiles ....

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## Bussard Ramjet

In my last post, I made a mistake by typing that "India is way ahead of China," 

It should of course be the other way around. Such mistakes happen, and somehow I am not able to edit my post.

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## onebyone

yes go home india

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## Beast

Bussard Ramjet said:


> How did Congo buy ARJ 21?
> 
> 1. Was it given for free to Congo?
> Or
> 2. Was it bought using export credits or some kind of soft loans?
> Or
> 3. Was it bought on heavy discount/price cuts?
> Or
> 4. On normal profitable prices?



Hi friend

Not much info we can provide you. But Chengdu airline comfirm end of the year will have 2-3 operational ARJ21 in service. That is why Congo is willing to ink the deal. AVIC is confident each year will produced at least 40 ARJ21. So I believe Congo will received it in service very soon.

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## PakEye

Bussard Ramjet said:


> I have absolutely zero intentions to hurt or insult China, absolutely none. I have deep and profound respect for China, as a culture and civilization. My question, at no point, tried insinuating any kind of ill feelings.
> 
> Yes, India is way ahead of China, no doubt about that. But, you will also agree that China itself is, still, quite some distance from top manufacturers and the top end technology. No doubt the gap is decreasing, rather, at a very fast rate. Yet, still, ARJ 21 is among initial jet for China and also a platform to leap forward. Hence, quite understandably, China wants to promote their use. And here comes the idea to give many kinds of incentives to give away these planes.
> 
> China has done this a lot with Xian MA 60. With many countries, it has given away these planes for free, often both for promoting these planes, and also to get influence and good will from small countries.
> 
> Examples:
> 1. Tonga -
> Plane provided for free.
> (I can't put the links because being a new member, I can't)
> 2. Nepal
> As I remember, (I may be wrong), 1 or 2 plane were given for free here as well.
> 
> Similarly for many countries. If you are not satisfied, I can cite many many more examples.
> 
> I am a new member here, and hence I want to reiterate again here, given the tense and unfortunate relationship I have witnessed between Indians and Chinese here, that, I have deep and profound respect for China. It's history, and the sheer resilience of its people. I am not the military kind. I am primarily a technology guy, who happens to be an amateur Sinologist, who loves India deeply, who wants genuinely a good relationship b/w these two great countries and civilizations.


Welcome to PDF,
bUT please discribed How to ?
*India is way ahead of China !!! ?*


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## HRK

Nozzle of CX-1









> A report of November 08, Chinese state television on naval weapons contained a very brief overview of a new missile able to be launched vertically from one of the two ships armament test the PLA Navy. While the missile has a resemblance to the CX-1 before the release of disposable nose and tail extension, Chinese commentators are not unanimous on whether this is the CX-1. *But if it's real, then it would follow a broader version that may be coming into service with the Chinese Navy as the CX-1 version*, and may soon be ready for export.



Zhuhai Surprise China’s Third Russian Supersonic ASCM | Ares

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## xunzi

What you see at the Air Show is only 30% of what we are having or developing considering we still very much trying to hide our true strength.

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## Beast

xunzi said:


> What you see at the Air Show is only 30% of what we are having or developing considering we still very much trying to hide our true strength.


Next Zhuhai airshow in 2016 will be the year of engine. REal working engine install on combat aircraft or commercial.

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## PakEye

Click the link for Video
China Set to Debut *The J-31 stealth* Fighter 
* What China's Newest Fighter Jet Looks Like *
*The J-31 stealth fighter gave a public demonstration of its capabilities at the Zhuhai Air Show that started today in Guangdong province*
*Nov. 11 (Bloomberg) -- China’s Air Force is set to debut its newest fighter jet this week at an airshow with senior U.S. officers looking on, another effort to showcase its rising military clout in Asia. *

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## xunzi

Beast said:


> Next Zhuhai airshow in 2016 will be the year of engine. REal working engine install on combat aircraft or commercial.


That is what I am MOST interest in as well. It is the engine. Once we developed a mature engine, we can unleash our full potential. At this point, we are very much in that "show-hiding" stage where we demonstrated some system for export and some just for show. We have very little intention of giving out too much information since secrecy will keep our enemy second guessing.

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## Beast

xunzi said:


> That is what I am MOST interest in as well. It is the engine. Once we developed a mature engine, we can unleash our full potential. At this point, we are very much in that "show-hiding" stage where we demonstrated some system for export and some just for show. We have very little intention of giving out too much information since secrecy will keep our enemy second guessing.


True! I believe many engine has already tested on combat aircraft. How can AVIC dare to showcase its J-31 if domestic engine is not an option. No countries will buy this J-31 if no domestic engine is ready.

I believe the reason why J-31 suddenly pick by AVIC to appear on Zhuhai 2014 airshow with even live flying display may be due to breakthru of domestic engine tested which is almost 90percent completed before certify. AVIC is confident they are able to deliver the whole package included engine. As u say, AVIC is not showing true strength.

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## Muhammad Omar



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## Sanchez

HRK said:


> Nozzle of CX-1
> 
> View attachment 149633
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zhuhai Surprise China’s Third Russian Supersonic ASCM | Ares
> View attachment 149636


The last pic is not the firing of CX-1 but YJ-18

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## AsianLion

Free Chinese Defence Products publicity on World famous Pakistani Forum.

What more can Pakistan do for Chinese Brothers.

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## Speeder 2

xunzi said:


> What you see at the Air Show is only 30% of what we are having or developing considering we still very much trying to hide our true strength.



really?


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## Bussard Ramjet

pakeye said:


> Welcome to PDF,
> bUT please discribed How to ?
> *India is way ahead of China !!! ?*



I corrected myself in post #765. 
It is of course the other way round, that, China is way ahead of India.

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## My-Analogous

check this web site

2014 Zhuhai Airshow | China Defense Mashup

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## Sage

Bussard Ramjet said:


> How did Congo buy ARJ 21?
> 
> 1. Was it given for free to Congo?
> Or
> 2. Was it bought using export credits or some kind of soft loans?
> Or
> 3. Was it bought on heavy discount/price cuts?
> Or
> 4. On normal profitable prices?


You need to ice it ...

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## Sage

Ulla said:


> Why the Jf-17 is only this year in the static display ?


Because last time they stole the show from the J-10 ...!

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## j20blackdragon



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## raazh

Was there any FC31 flight demo today ?? If yes then a video link will be very much appreciated.


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## PakEye

*Russia’s advanced Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E is also making it debut at the Zhuhai airshow.*

What is new in the Su-35? First off, the fighter will get an improved airframe, which will dramatically increase its service life to 6,000 hours, 30 years of operation (the time before the first test and recondition and the between-repairs period has been increased to 1,500 hours, or 10 years of operation). Aerodynamically it is similar to the Su-27. But unlike the Su-30MKI it will feature no canard fins. All the three channels will have electrically signaled control without mechanical cabling. The use of a new integrated control system (developed by MNPK Avionika Moscow-based Research and Production Association) simultaneously performing functions of several systems – remote control, automatic control, limiting signals system, air signals system, chassis wheels braking system – will enhance the fighter’s handling capability and maneuverability.
The Su-35 chassis has been reinforced because of the increased takeoff and landing weight of the aircraft. For the same reason, the front bearing has two wheels. The improved radar stealth reduces the reflectance of the Su-35 in the X radio waveband and in the angle range of ±60°.
*Power Plant.*
Another important feature of the Su-35 is the use of new engines 117S with an increased thrust. Those engines, known as 117S, have been developed by NPO Saturn Research and Production Association.The 117S engines will be co-produced by Ufa-based Motor Building Association and Rybinsk-based NPO Saturn Research and Production Association.
The core of the Su-35 armament is a new radar control system with a phased antenna array (Irbis-E). Irbis-E radar control system detects and tracks up to 30 air targets, retaining continuity of space observation and engaging up to eight targets. The system detects, chooses and tracks up to four ground targets in several map-making modes with various resolution at a range of up to 400 km, without stopping to monitor the airspace.
*Armament*
In addition to the armaments onboard the modern Su-30MK, it is planned to additionally arm the Su-35 with new types of air-to-air and air-to-surface guided missiles, including long-range types. The maximum ordnance load of the Su-35 is 8,000 kg. This is placed in 12 weapon stations.

*The Su-35 the front bearing has two wheels.*

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## Speeder 2

Bussard Ramjet said:


> How did Congo buy ARJ 21?
> 
> 1. Was it given for free to Congo?
> Or
> 2. Was it bought using export credits or some kind of soft loans?
> Or
> 3. Was it bought on heavy discount/price cuts?
> Or
> 4. On normal profitable prices?



A 1: Congo has its own reputation to cover as well. Few in this world is like India, FYI.

A2: Could be in exchange for some of Congo's natural resources. (China doesn't accept cow dung as any form of payments - don't you get any ideas.)

A3: No. Heavy discount/price cut is only for desperite cheap clients such as India.

A4: Yes. But, chill out, you might be able to reach such a profitable price 500 years from now after you become supapawa.

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## HRK

Sanchez said:


> The last pic is not the firing of CX-1 but YJ-18



thnx to inform that pic was part of the article (link in my post)


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## Bussard Ramjet

Speeder 2 said:


> A 1: Congo has its own reputation to cover as well. Few in this world is like India, FYI.
> 
> A2: Could be in exchange for some of Congo's natural resources. (China doesn't accept cow dung as any form of payments - don't you get any ideas.)
> 
> A3: No. Heavy discount/price cut is only for desperite cheap clients such as India.
> 
> A4: Yes. But, chill out, you might be able to reach such a profitable price 500 years from now after you become supapawa.



I have taken the pledge that regardless of the personal insinuations against me and my country, I will not react or comment. I will always try my best to be friendly towards Chinese. I hope some day you will understand my sincerity. 

And about the jet, I googled. The reports are that Congo bought them. 
Since, I am a new member here, I can't, yet, post links. So just search "Congo ARJ 21" in Google News.

(I can't understand why new members aren't allowed to post links, but it maybe to avoid bots or something)

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## PakEye

*Back View of Russia’s advanced Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E is also making it debut at the Zhuhai airshow.

The Su-35 the front bearing has two wheels.





*

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## cnleio

China LS family guided bomb on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

MBT-3000 (VT-4) detail pics on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## qwerrty

Airshow China: AVIC unveils AC3X2 - News - Shephard
AIRSHOW CHINA: AVIC shines spotlight on MA700 - 11/10/2014 - Flight Global
AIRSHOW CHINA: AVIC studying large ground effect vehicle - 11/11/2014 - Flight Global
AIRSHOW CHINA: AVIC to build empennage tips for new Boeing 777X - 11/11/2014 - Flight Global
Rostec, China's AVIC agree on strategic cooperation in aircraft industry | Russia Beyond The Headlines
AIRSHOW CHINA: Safran, AVIC create turboprop parts JV - 11/11/2014 - Flight Global
Thales and SAVIC announce partnership for Helicopter Avionics
Cessna-Avic Delivers First Chinese-built Citation XLS+ Business Jets | Aviation International News
-

AIRSHOW CHINA: Comsys Leasing signs for 20 ARJ21s - 11/11/2014 - Flight Global
AIRSHOW CHINA: CMB Financial Leasing commits to 30 C919s - 11/11/2014 - Flight Global
Chinese aircraft maker gets U.S. orders | GlobalPost


> "China (AVIC), on Tuesday signed a contract with a U.S. airliner to sell 20 Y12 series aircraft to the firm."



*Y-12F*

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## cnleio

PLZ-52 155mm SPH detail pics on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## qwerrty

i think PLZ-52 looks better without fugly side skirts


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## cnleio

11.11 First Day of 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

China Unmanned Mobile Platform detail pics on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## qwerrty

what the hell is this sh1t? didn't they ordered the koreans not to come?

not long ago they gave a hefty fine to pratt & whitney for selling helicopter engines to china, then a few months after that they delivered s-92s to china equipped with much more powerful engines than the PW that got fined ?

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## Bussard Ramjet

The Chinese members present here should perhaps read this forum. Here the American members are talking about CX 1 and the threat etc. I would highly appreciate your reactions. Please ignore some stupid things that may have been said there, though, it is largely quite logical. I would like to know your views.


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## mike2000

qwerrty said:


> View attachment 149834
> 
> 
> what the hell is this? didn't they ordered the koreans not to come?
> 
> not long ago they gave a hefty fine to pratt & whitney for selling helicopter engines to china, then a few months after that they delivered s-92s to china equipped with much more powerful engines than the PW that got fined.. ?
> View attachment 149829
> View attachment 149830



I was just about to ask the same question. U.S foreign policy these days tend to be kind of silly/confusing. Why would they tell Seoul not to come, but they themselves show up. Its indeed bad for the U.S to do such a thing to a close ally. Im sure the koreans wont be happy about this. But then again, what can they do? 
Anyway i dont see why they would have even come on here, not like they had any indegenious weapon systems to show off(since almost all their weapon systems are kind of derived/produced with U.S support/systems, so they would still have needed U.S consesnt either way). So no point really.
I wanted to see Japan participate though, since thye have much more capable systems unlike the Koreans.

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## cnleio

China next-gen fighter cockpit v2.0 (FC-31) detail pics, more like a F-35 cockpit

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## SvenSvensonov

cnleio said:


> China next-gen fighter cockpit (FC-31) detail pics, more like a F-35 cockpit
> 
> 
> View attachment 149839
> 
> View attachment 149840
> 
> View attachment 149841
> 
> View attachment 149842
> 
> View attachment 149843
> 
> View attachment 149844
> 
> View attachment 149845
> 
> View attachment 149846
> 
> View attachment 149848
> 
> View attachment 149849



Looks amazing!!! Best photos of the simulator yet! In a few years, with both actual and simulated combat training hours, the pilots of the PLA are going to be top class (definitely within the top five along with Japan and the US), and better then most. Welcome to the club China, leaving Russia (who still has very outdated simulators) in the dust! I look forward to a day when the USAF and USN can join the PLAAF and PLAN in a joint training op similar to the joint US-Japan and US-Indian ops. Hope these days come soon.

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## cnleio

China next-gen fighter cockpit v2.0 (FC-31) detail pics, more like a F-35 cockpit

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## cnleio

SvenSvensonov said:


> Looks amazing!!! Best photos of the simulator yet! In a few years, with both actual and simulated combat training hours, the pilots of the PLA are going to be top class (definitely within the top five along with Japan and the US), and better then most. Welcome to the club China, leaving Russia (who still has very outdated simulators) in the dust! I look forward to a day when the USAF and USN can join the PLAAF and PLAN in a joint training op similar to the joint US-Japan and US-Indian ops. Hope these days come soon.


LOL... there'r more detail pics of China next-gen fighter cockpit v2.0, enjoy pics here.

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## SvenSvensonov

cnleio said:


> China next-gen fighter cockpit v2.0 (FC-31) detail pics, more like a F-35 cockpit
> 
> 
> View attachment 149851
> View attachment 149852
> View attachment 149853
> View attachment 149854
> View attachment 149855
> View attachment 149856
> View attachment 149857
> View attachment 149858
> View attachment 149859
> View attachment 149860



Is that a Chinese version of the F-35 helmet mounted display? I can't quite tell from the pics, but the visor (the tinted part) looks transparent and I don't think it is, any updates or images on a Chinese version? I know that one is being worked on, but I'm not sure if it's been released for public viewing yet. I like the digital camouflage too!

And since I mentioned camo, are there any updates, pics or rumors about 3D vehicle camo? I was at Modern Marine 2 years ago and saw BAE showcasing (not sure if the US military is actually interested) a 3D digital camo for vehicles, any pics or showing of something like this?


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## cnleio

China next-gen fighter cockpit (FC-31) detail pics, more like a F-35 cockpit







Compared with F-35 cockipit 



















PLA visiting a F-35 cockpit

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## cnleio

SvenSvensonov said:


> Is that a Chinese version of the F-35 helmet mounted display? I can't quite tell from the pics, but the visor (the tinted part) looks transparent and I don't think it is, any updates or images on a Chinese version? I know that one is being worked on, but I'm not sure if it's been released for public viewing yet. I like the digital camouflage too!


Yes, it's a China version helmet mounted display for next-gen fighter pilot ... but i think it looks like a prototype here, later we should wait for more pics to see the helmet mounted display, it's hot !




SvenSvensonov said:


> And since I mentioned camo, are there any updates, pics or rumors about 3D vehicle camo? I was at Modern Marine 2 years ago and saw BAE showcasing (not sure if the US military is actually interested) a 3D digital camo for vehicles, and pics or showing of something like this?
> 
> View attachment 149871


Right now we didn't see China 3D vehicle camo, PLA vehicles still using Digital Camo. It's not a problem for China, coz Chinese building 3D printers in China and export 3D printers to U.S.

If the 3D Camo is more expensive than current Digital Camo, i think PLA has less interest in a expensive camo and can't afford the cost.

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## mike2000

SvenSvensonov said:


> Looks amazing!!! Best photos of the simulator yet! In a few years, with both actual and simulated combat training hours, the pilots of the PLA are going to be top class (definitely within the top five along with Japan and the US), and better then most. Welcome to the club China, leaving Russia (who still has very outdated simulators) in the dust! I look forward to a day when the USAF and USN can join the PLAAF and PLAN in a joint training op similar to the joint US-Japan and US-Indian ops. Hope these days come soon.



I agree with you on this, I myself im surprised to see the Chinese have advanced so fast in such a short period of time. Their weapons systems are indeed maturing quite faster than i thought. Guess in a decade from now, they will be in top tier 1 military tech power, The only remaining puzzle they have to break to get there is the 'HEART' i.e yea Engines. If/when they master this completely then im afraid Moscow wont have any business deals in Beijing anymore, since its only engines in which they still have a huge lead over the Chinese. This coming decade will indeed be an inetresting one to watch.

huh...... asnd before i forget, i hope the the U.K is obviously in your 'top 5' mr Svensvensonov?.


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## SvenSvensonov

mike2000 said:


> I agree with you on this, I myself im surprised to see the Chinese have advanced so fast in such a short period of time. Their weapons systems are indeed maturing quite faster than i thought. Guess in a decade from now, they will be in top tier 1 military tech power, The only remaining puzzle they have to break to get there is the 'HEART' i.e yea Engines. If/when they master this completely then im afraid Moscow wont have any business deals in Beijing anymore, since its only engines in which they still have a huge lead over the Chinese. This coming decade will indeed be an inetresting one to watch.
> 
> huh...... asnd before i forget, i hope the the U.K is obviously in your 'top 5' mr Svensvensonov?.



The UK and Israel would round out my top five, with Turkey, India and France coming up next. I just wanted to keep the post somewhat short. Unlike you though I'm not surprised by China's advancement for several factors including their espionage capabilities, large and intelligence population, capital and resources and desire to become a preeminent military power. They still lack the real-world experience, and without fighting a war this wont come. I hope or China that it never has to gain the practical experience and that wars never find China or any other nation in the region (including the US who is still there despite some nations not wanting us to be).

I might give you guys (and the Canadians) crap about being our 51st and 52nd states, but you're our brothers without a doubt!


----------



## mike2000

cnleio said:


> China next-gen fighter cockpit (FC-31) detail pics, more like a F-35 cockpit
> 
> View attachment 149862
> 
> 
> 
> Compared with F-35 cockipit
> 
> View attachment 149863
> 
> View attachment 149864
> 
> View attachment 149865
> 
> View attachment 149866
> 
> 
> 
> PLA visiting a F-35 cockpit
> 
> View attachment 149867
> 
> View attachment 149868
> 
> View attachment 149869



WTH? The U.S let the chinese have a look at the F-35 fihgter cockpit? Why is it even there in the first place? Never thought they will particpate in the first place, much less bringing their best/latest fighter to this show. Surprised to say the least Guess next time we should bring our super Typhoons as well then.


----------



## Oldman1

mike2000 said:


> WTH? The U.S let the chinese have a look at the F-35 fihgter cockpit? Why is it even there in the first place? Never thought they will particpate in the first place, much less bringing their best/latest fighter to this show. Surprised to say the least Guess next time we should bring our super Typhoons as well then.



No its just a mockup. And the big difference is that it doesn't have the HUD while the Chinese has one.


----------



## Kompromat

Oldman1 said:


> No its just a mockup. And the big difference is that it doesn't have the HUD while the Chinese has one.



F-22 has an HUD. Does it make the Raptor inferior than JSF?

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## cnleio

mike2000 said:


> WTH? The U.S let the chinese have a look at the F-35 fihgter cockpit? Why is it even there in the first place? Never thought they will particpate in the first place, much less bringing their best/latest fighter to this show. Surprised to say the least Guess next time we should bring our super Typhoons as well then.


Old pics, PLA ever visted F-35A on Singapore Air Show.


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## Oldman1

Horus said:


> F-22 has an HUD. Does it make the Raptor inferior than JSF?



No, the big difference is that the JSF doesn't need it, and is different from the Chinese version.


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## cnleio

Oldman1 said:


> No its just a mockup. And the big difference is that it doesn't have the HUD while the Chinese has one.


It's better than nothing, Double HUDs & Double Security !


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## Oldman1

Horus said:


> F-22 has an HUD. Does it make the Raptor inferior than JSF?



Go to time index 7:15 on how it works.


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## Kompromat

Oldman1 said:


> No, the big difference is that the JSF doesn't need it, and is different from the Chinese version.



I understand. I would rate F-22s DAS/Sensor Fusion still superior to that of the JSF. I believe that FC-31s sensor fusion will be displayed on an HMS, however should some anomaly take place inflight, having HUD never hurts and pilot can still do his job.


----------



## Oldman1

Horus said:


> I understand. I would rate F-22s DAS/Sensor Fusion still superior to that of the JSF. I believe that FC-31s sensor fusion will be displayed on an HMS, however should some anomaly take place inflight, having HUD never hurts and pilot can still do his job.



This is no different than switching from periscopes to photonics mast with no periscope in the control room.


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## Kompromat

Oldman1 said:


> This is no different than switching from periscopes to photonics mast with no periscope in the control room.



Vehemently disagree with you sir. Just wait till the Raptors get their HMS upgrade. USAF Pilots will tell you the exact same thing im telling you now.


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## Oldman1

Horus said:


> Vehemently disagree with you sir. Just wait till the Raptors get their HMS upgrade. USAF Pilots will tell you the exact same thing im telling you now.



Well we can agree to disagree. No different than submariners complaining about lack of periscopes in their boats.

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## terranMarine

mike2000 said:


> I agree with you on this, I myself im surprised to see the Chinese have advanced so fast in such a short period of time. Their weapons systems are indeed maturing quite faster than i thought. Guess in a decade from now, they will be in top tier 1 military tech power, The only remaining puzzle they have to break to get there is the 'HEART' i.e yea Engines. If/when they master this completely then im afraid Moscow wont have any business deals in Beijing anymore, since its only engines in which they still have a huge lead over the Chinese. This coming decade will indeed be an inetresting one to watch.
> 
> huh...... asnd before i forget, i hope the the U.K is obviously in your 'top 5' mr Svensvensonov?.



Well if it isn't the British snob who was laughing at Chinese smokey engines and bragging about British influence while calling me a blinded patriot. Now you are totally shocked how advanced Chinese military is? Not to mention you had zero clue of FC-31 until recently while most of us here knew from the beginning the moment those photos and videos became public.

When i say what British influence? I don't downplay your small island because of jealousy, it's a fact dude. Recently your PM was so nervous of Scotland leaving, now the EU is demanding UK to pay the hefty bill and Merkel wants the UK out of the EU because of some dispute she has with that PM of yours regarding immigration law.

While you still brag about UK influence because of a few high tech areas while China is still catching you are now witnessing just how fast the PLA is modernizing. As stated by my buddies here what's at the show isn't the real capability on display it's only a tiny part of it. Even our Japanese member here and his military friends of the Japanese defence force are fanboys of Chinese toys.
Mark my word when China has mastered the engine tech, hypersonic missile (which has already been demonstrated once or twice), railgun, electromagnetic catapult and more you will be even more shocked and i can even look down at your small island even more.

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## Kompromat

Oldman1 said:


> Well we can agree to disagree. No different than submariners complaining about lack of periscopes in their boats.



Lets wait. I am waiting for HMS upgrade of Raptors to study its results. 

PAF i beleive would like to replace our vipers with the FC-31s as F-35s are no longer in our price range.


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## cnleio

Foreign customers have interest in China anti-tank missiles 

HJ-8L, HJ-9, HJ-12, 120mm rocket ...


> 11月11日，第十届珠海航展，现场展示了中国军工研制的红箭系列反坦克导弹。
> 包括红箭9A（车载式）、红箭12（单兵便携式、自寻的发射后不管）、红箭8L（便携式）、120毫米反坦克火箭筒等亮相珠海航展。

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## cnleio

China air-to-surface missile & JDAM display on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## mike2000

terranMarine said:


> Well if it isn't the British snob who was laughing at Chinese smokey engines and bragging about British influence while calling me a blinded patriot. Now you are totally shocked how advanced Chinese military is? Not to mention you had zero clue of FC-31 until recently while most of us here knew from the beginning the moment those photos and videos became public.
> 
> When i say what British influence? I don't downplay your small island because of jealousy, it's a fact dude. Recently your PM was so nervous of Scotland leaving, now the EU is demanding UK to pay the hefty bill and Merkel wants the UK out of the EU because of some dispute she has with that PM of yours regarding immigration law.
> 
> While you still brag about UK influence because of a few high tech areas while China is still catching you are now witnessing just how fast the PLA is modernizing. As stated by my buddies here what's at the show isn't the real capability on display it's only a tiny part of it. Even our Japanese member here and his military friends of the Japanese defence force are fanboys of Chinese toys.
> Mark my word when China has mastered the engine tech, hypersonic missile (which has already been demonstrated once or twice), railgun, electromagnetic catapult and more you will be even more shocked and i can even look down at your small island even more.




loool I was laughing at smoky chinese engines? lool Those engines you are using on your stealth fighter arent Chinese as far as i know. They are Russian, and if you clearly red my comment(its still on here by the way) You will noticed clearly that i said Smoky russian engines. So why are you saying i was laughing at smoky chinese engines? lol those engines arent yours as far as i know bro. If they were your engines i would have congratulated you people, since i know its not an easy task to build a fighter jet(an advanced 5th generation one for that matter) engine in the first place, my comment was directed at Russia, since i expected them to produce better engines than the smoky ones they sold you, since they are also a top tier 1 military power with lots of experience in building engines like us in the west/.U.S, So of course i would have expected them to do better than that(they sure seem to be letting me down with each passing year).lol

As for Looking down on U.K. lool you can look down on U.K all you want, but doesnt change relaity or mean that we are insignificant, as i said despite your fast progress which i admire by the way(since if you have followed my posts/comments on here, you will know i tend to respect/admire countries who strive for self sufficiency, be it Iran , Turkey or whatever country it might be) you still have some critical tech to master like you stated before you can even start looking down upon us(since you yourself said you are still catching up) , much more so since we had mastered this tech decades ago. So dont get too arrogant just because i made some positive comments about your military advancements/developments, for though i understand that when a new comer gets into an exclusive league like military tech weapons, they can indeed get too arrogant for no good reason(anyway, unlike you, your leaders aren't that arrogant, so thats all that matters). We migth not produce all different varieties of weapons systems like the U.S or even Russia, but what we do focus on and produce, beleive me is world class, and even better in some cases than those of the U.S and any power out there. Thats why i said, if we had Chinas size/economy, then believe me, even the U.S will be struggling to keep up with us.

Anyway, congrats to China for their weapons development, keep it up. Always better to produce critical weapons yourselves/locally if you can afford to.. Kudos to that.

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## cnleio

China fuel-air explosive bomb display on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

AVIC display "TianHang/太行" WS-10A jet engine on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

AVIC display "MinShan/岷山" YWH-11-6 jet engine on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show











AVIC display WZ-6C turboshaft engine on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show














AVIC display WZ-8J turboshaft engine on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show






AVIC display WZ-16 turboshaft engine on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## longlong

Bussard Ramjet said:


> In my last post, I made a mistake by typing that "India is way ahead of China,"
> 
> It should of course be the other way around. Such mistakes happen, and somehow I am not able to edit my post.


I do think that is your real thinking before you discovered this post.

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## xueri

Horus said:


> F-22 has an HUD. Does it make the Raptor inferior than JSF?


F22 is inferior than JSF in ground attack ability

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## cirr

Poly Defence：

保利展出低附带火箭弹和制导迫弹 - 室内展馆图集 - 航空网

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## yusheng

Sage said:


> Because last time they stole the show from the J-10 ...!



seems China and Pakistan has new better plan now.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

yusheng said:


> seems China and Pakistan has new better plan now.


 
I think Pakistan will get FC-31 sooner than India's FGFA, seem like they have little trouble with TOT issue with Russia.

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## cirr

I am having it up here trying to include pics so will provide the link instead：

*China's New Military Robots Pack More Robots Inside, Starcraft-Style | Popular Science*

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## cirr

*Boeing hires Chinese aviation company to make 777 parts*

Nov 11, 2014, 2:50pm PST UPDATED: Nov 11, 2014, 3:08pm PST

Sarah Aitchison

Boeing announced a contract with Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) Tuesday.

The company, which is the largest state-owned aviation company in China, will produce composite empennage tips for Boeing's 777 family of planes beginning in 2017.

AVIC's Shenyang Commercial Aircraft Corporation (SACC), a subsidiary of AVIC, will build tips for the vertical fine and horizontal stabilizer in a new facility near the airport in Shenyang, China.

Those stabilizers are placed on the tail of the plane. Each 777 will need three.

The contract means Boeing and SACC will work together to create a new training program and Chinese Manufacturing Innovation Center within the facility.

SACC has a 24-year history of building parts for Boeing's commercial airlines. SACC's parent company has built similar stabilizers for Boeing's 737.

Boeing is the largest foreign customer for China's aviation market. The company expects to double its purchases from China in coming years.

Taking space in China may be a good move by the company to stay active in an aviation manufacturing market space that is heating up.

Chinese airplane-manufacturing company, Comac, is rolling out its C919 prototype at 2014 Air Show China this week. It's the first mainline airplane built by China. The C919 will be similar in size to Boeing's 737 MAX.

Larry Wilson, supplier management communications for Boeing, said "this decision is consistent with our Partnering for Success program, benefiting all parties involved – Boeing, our customers and AVIC."

Boeing announced an $8.5-billion dollar deal with a Japanese leasing company for the 737 MAX, Monday. It's the largest deal of its kind in Boeing's history.

Last week, Boeing Commercial Airlines CEO Ray Conner announced the company's plan to replace the 737 MAX with a similar-sized, but completely new aircraft by 2030.

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## Al Bhatti



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## Al Bhatti



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## cirr

A full set of cockpit pictures：

中国四代机飞行模拟器曝光 - 室内展馆图集 - 航空网

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## cnleio

What's this helicopter ... U.S Bell ?

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## cnleio

Y-20 photos on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## Stealth

The name of this thread should be ... China F**** ALL! especially China one and only "enemy" neighbor LOL

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## cnleio

Stealth said:


> The name of this thread should be ... China F**** ALL! especially China one and only "enemy" neighbor LOL


Drunk more, bro. 
China doing business with most nations of this world, selling weapon is the part of Chinese business.

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## onebyone

China Good


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## Bussard Ramjet

Hey can the chinese members reply to my post made before? I would be extremely grateful.

It is post #798


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## onebyone

india Go Home

india defenceforum

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## bobsm

Now this is interesting.

http://www.defensenews.com/article/...lographic-UAV-Control-Center?odyssey=nav|head

*China Developing Holographic UAV Control Center*




*ZHUHAI, CHINA* — China’s biggest aviation manufacturer, Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), is developing a holographic ground control system (GCS) for UAVs.

Unveiled at Airshow China here, the “nerve center” or GCS displays the UAV as a holographic image. It allows the controller to command the aircraft, obtain flight parameters and information on navigation and guidance through a “human-machine interface.”

The controller experiences the entire process of the mission via this interface, including mission payload, route planning, flight control, identification of friend/foe, precision strikes and task assessment of the UAV operational environment.

Airshow China, known officially as the 10th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition, is being held from Nov. 11-16.

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## aliaselin

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Hey can the chinese members reply to my post made before? I would be extremely grateful.
> 
> It is post #798


It is for export but not prepared for US, while DF-21D is. So what do you want to know?

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## cnleio

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Hey can the chinese members reply to my post made before? I would be extremely grateful.
> 
> It is post #798



In All new CX-1 supersonic anti-ship cruise missile (ASCM) - Chinese Answer to Brahmos thread...
#15 @SvenSvensonov and #18 @cnleio, we all give the answer to supersonic anti-ship missile like Brahmos/CX-10 etc ... future the STAR is* the stealth subsonic anti-ship missile* not supersonic. All Top5 nations didn't or not plan to equip supersonic missile as our main anti-ship missile, more like a weapon tech backup.

Ur Indian won't see U.S or China install supersonic anti-ship missile like CX-10 or Brahmos on our warships. Before Top5's long-range air-defense system, a 'Mig-21' supersonic missile is useless !

This is what we develop ...






The weakness of a supersonic missile is *strong infrared signal* & *high flight trajectory* & *easy jamming*, so u can understand why i call it as a 'Mig-21'. Before *a modern air-defense DDG* Fleet, it's easy to intercept some supersonic missiles. 






But it's work, when u launch many supersonic anti-ship missiles to attack 1~2x enemy warship at the same time ... it called *"Saturation Attack" !!!*

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## Bussard Ramjet

cnleio said:


> In All new CX-1 supersonic anti-ship cruise missile (ASCM) - Chinese Answer to Brahmos thread...
> #15 @SvenSvensonov and #18 @cnleio, we all give the answer to supersonic anti-ship missile like Brahmos/CX-10 etc ... future the STAR is* the stealth subsonic anti-ship missile* not supersonic. All Top5 nations didn't or not plan to equip supersonic missile as our main anti-ship missile, more like a weapon tech backup.
> 
> Ur Indian won't see U.S or China install supersonic anti-ship missile like CX-10 or Brahmos on our warships. Before Top5's long-range air-defense system, a 'Mig-21' supersonic missile is useless !
> 
> This is what we develop ...
> View attachment 150080
> 
> 
> 
> The weakness of a supersonic missile is *strong infrared signal* & *high flight trajectory* & *easy jamming*, so u can understand why i call it as a 'Mig-21'. Before *a modern air-defense DDG* Fleet, it's easy to intercept some supersonic missiles.
> View attachment 150081
> 
> 
> 
> But it's work, when u launch many supersonic anti-ship missiles to attack 1~2x enemy warship at the same time ... it called *"Saturation Attack" !!!*



How hard is it to destroy a Nimitz class carrier? 
The people in those forum were saying that it will take more than one or two missile strike to sink it. Is it true? 

I have just read about this ---> USS America. Apparently they used it as a target after decommisioning it to check an aircraft strength. Does someone know about this?


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## AMDR

Bussard Ramjet said:


> How hard is it to destroy a Nimitz class carrier?
> The people in those forum were saying that it will take more than one or two missile strike to sink it. Is it true?
> 
> I have just read about this ---> USS America. Apparently they used it as a target after decommisioning it to check an aircraft strength. Does someone know about this?


It would probably take 3 hits, maybe 2, from a CX-1 to take down a Nimitz. A P-800 series missile like that has a massive amount of kinetic energy plus the explosive charge. A deadly but vulnerable combination.

USS America after its decommissioning underwent tests on how underwater explosives (Torpedoes) damages super-carriers . It survived these tests and was then scuttled. The results of the tests are still classified by the U.S. Navy to my knowledge.


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## cnleio

Bussard Ramjet said:


> How hard is it to destroy a Nimitz class carrier?
> The people in those forum were saying that it will take more than one or two missile strike to sink it. Is it true?


Easy ... throw all like this to a Nimitz and once 3x hit it, im sure the A.C must sink ... pls don't try CX-10 =.=









Bussard Ramjet said:


> I have just read about this ---> USS America. Apparently they used it as a target after decommisioning it to check an aircraft strength. Does someone know about this?


U.S gqm-163 supersonic target










China BW-II supersonic target

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## qwerrty

mobile slv

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## Bussard Ramjet

I am not talking about a Nimitz stand alone. We are talking about a Nimitz escorted by a range of vessels, and itself carrying F22/F35 which have an operational range of 180-200 km.

Americans were talking about the threat posed by this system the CX 1. They were talking in the context of Iran using these weapons. Here is the quote from the forum that I posted the link back.

"To begin with, you have to realize that it is almost impossible to directly threaten a US carrier at sea.

To start, they have a pretty impressive array of defensive ships surrounding it. Typically 4-5 Arleigh Burke class destroyers, and a Ticonderoga class cruiser. All by themselves, each of these ships has a pretty powerful anti-missile system. Working in combination, I doubt any missiles would get through.

And even if they do, the carrier then has a lot of defensive firepower of it's own.

Depending upon the ship, from 2-3 RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile launchers, 2-3 Sea Sparrow missile launchers, and 2-3 PHALANX CIWS systems. In addition, you have E-2 Hawkeye AEW aircraft. If the carrier is operating in "hostile territory", expect one of these in the air at all times.

So now you not only have the powerful and sophisticated AEGIS RADAR systems looking for missiles from the ground, you have the E-2C/D series aircraft looking for them from the air in a look-down capability. So it's ability to "sea skim" to avoid detection is greatly reduced. This may keep them out of sight of the Tico's and Burke's, but not the Hawkeye.

And the newest series, the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye has some pretty impressive capabilities. It's RADAR capabilities are tied into the AEGIS system, and can actually target and guide an SM-6 ship based missile. So the destroyers and cruisers are no longer limited to what their RADAR can see, the AEW aircraft can actually target inbound threats while they are still over the horizon from the ship, up to the 240 km range of the missile itself.

So before it can even hit the carrier, it has to get through a "crapstorm" of defensive weapons systems, each of which is designed to destroy such inbound missiles. Then it has to actually find the carrier. Not exactly an easy task in and of itself. These weapons target by RADAR, so they will target any large vessel they find (or even a rock formation that comes close to what it is looking for).

These missiles are fast (MACH 1.5+), have a decent range (around 400 miles), and pack a decent punch (750kg of HE). But they are also large, so easier to target by defensive systems then say the smaller EXOCET or SILKWORM missiles.

So to try to fully answer, is this missile a threat to US ships? Yes, unquestionably - depending on how many can be volley fired at a time. Soviet-Russian tactics dictate launching 2-3 groups of 6-7 missiles ideally (one missile of each group operating as a "controller", popping up from time to time to get RADAR fixes and navigation corrections, then relaying those to the rest of the swarm). That means anywhere from 12-21 missiles being aimed at the carrier group. Now that many missiles at a time you will have one or two get through the defensive systems. But will they actually target the carrier? Likely not, they would want to target the defensive vessels, making future waves more likely to penetrate and making the group retire from the area for fear of future strikes actually getting through.

Now is say Iran capable of launching such massive swarms? Not likely, their surface ships are all armed with missiles that are domestic or Chinese copies of the EXOCET, a missile that is much less capable. None of them can be converted to fire a missile of this size, which would mean they would need to build much larger ships before they could use them at sea. This means they are limited to ground launching.

And now you are talking about roughly 2-3 batteries of such launchers. They might be lucky enough to get 1 volley off, possibly 2 before they are then hunted down and destroyed by the aircraft on the carrier. Before the missiles are even intercepted, the CAP is going to be screaming towards theselaunchers, trying to take them out before they can fire another volley. So the best way for Iran to use them would be to fire, then immediately try to hide in pre-prepared bunkers. And hope they are not discovered.

Threat to the carrier, insignificant. Threat to the carrier group, low to moderate. But once again, depending upon the number of missiles that can be fired in a volley. 1-2 missiles at a time, almost laughably small risk. A Soviet planned volley of 20+ missiles, now you are talking a significant risk to the carrier group, a moderate risk to the carrier itself (not in being sunk, but in being damaged - US carriers are massive and remarkably tough vessels)."​
Then someone asked what will happen in a coordinated strike, that is if China tries to attack using bombers, submarines and missiles together against the carriers. The guy has this to say about that.

A well written quote. I would guess you would be pretty accurate in that one dimensional scenario. My question is when the Chinese or whomever decide to leverage their missiles in a multidimensional attack strategy. We cant say our enemies are dumb. Using a time on target multi axis attack vector from different platforms and weapons types. Say a combination attack of missiles, bombers, and submarines utilizing the strengths of each while trying to cover for their for their weakness. Using the missiles and bombers to soak up cap fighters and ADA missiles and making the Task force go into high speed mode wear they lose their ears, leaving them open to ambush by a cruse missile equipped submarine stalking at distance and a diesel attack boat stalking close in that can use their fish the moment the Task Force goes into ADA evasion mode. The Chinese do have some capability to pull off a coordinated attack like that. How would a task force fair against a combination threat like that? Me I would never do a one dimensional attack against any force if I could help it. Its too easy to defend against.​
To which the other guy replies this: 

Interesting concept. However, it is a well known military axiom that the more complex a plan is, the more likely it is that something will go wrong.

Part of the very idea of a "surprise attack" is that it is sudden without warning. A launch of say a dozen of these missiles could be done with almost no warning.

A plan like you are talking about however, is not stealthy at all. The preparation for the attack would be seen days in advance, preparations of this nature simply can't be hidden like they were in WWII. We keep a close track on where all of their subs are at all times. And if we see them putting out to sea (they are almost constantly tied up to the dock), that would be noticed immediately. And the same with their bombers and fighters taking to the air.

Over The Horizon RADAR is pretty piss-poor for targeting, but it is effective in early warning. As is the E-2 AEW bird, with a RADAR range of over 400 miles. You would have to have a very staggered deployment if these are all going to be striking the fleet at the same time.

First, the subs would have to put out to sea. And Chinese subs are notorious for being among the noisiest subs among major nations.

Then the bombers have to take to the skies. Their only bomber is the Xian H-6, a domestic copy of the Tu-16 (and dating to 1959). These subsonic bombers (MACH .75) only carry 6 Saccade/Silkworm missiles. And trust me, the moment that the bombers start to take to the skies, the fleet is going to be moving full speed ahead to safer waters. And all available fighters will be screaming off of the carrier towards the bombers, knowing that they have to be less then 110 miles from the target before they can launch their missiles.

Oh, and BTW, the range for the SM-2 is 115 miles. So just before the bombers get in range, they will be met by the first of the inbound missiles trying to take them out. The F/A-18E/F fighters will also be streaking towards them at MACH 1.8.

And their submarine attack capabilities even if they are within range are not all that impressive. If outfitted all-out for anti-ship attack, that only gives each one 12-24 submarine launched Silkworm missiles, that are of questionable functionality (China is known to have problems with these submarine launched missiles - doctrine says for the ship to surface before launching).

The problems here is that China is known to not trust their submarines, and almost never deploy more then 1 or 2 at a time. The moment more started to take to sea, defensive postures will change dramatically. The moment bombers started to take to the skies, CAP will be increased and fighters will go out so they can meet them before they arrive. 

ADA is irrelevant, since we would not be talking about a land battle. This would be an Air-Naval battle, ADA would not be within hundreds of miles of this conflict with only one exception. That would be if raising tensions had caused one concept for keeping China off of Taiwan. The US places it's CTF to the East of Taiwan, and placed PATRIOT-THAAD on Taiwan. Then I would expect almost no risk to the carrier, China would not have the range or ability to punch through the missile defenses of Taiwan.

Trust me, I do very much think of these in "multi-dimensional" ways. And with the alleged speed of this missile being over twice that of the bombers, the bombers would likely already be fighting it out with the fighters before the missiles were ever launched. And knowing the ranges, I could not understand any reason why the carrier would be operating in their range in the first place. It is a carrier with aircraft, it has no need to be operating less then 250 miles from shore during a time of heightened tensions.​

I am interested here in general theatre of war where China will maybe need to push out US till the second island chain. Remember, US has substantial ground bases in the region, with the one in okinawa single handedly able to operate till chinese shores. So even ignoring that for a while. How can China take out a carrier group placed around 400 km from its shores? 
How are you going to break thorugh the multiple defences of ships, counter-attack vessels, missile defence systems, and then 5th gen top notch aircraft zipping through?

Also, can you tell me more about the BW-II system?

I understand that China has much more than CX1 in its arsenal, and that is what I want to know. Your strategy.

@SvenSvensonov 
@mike2000 Your comments will be highly valued and appreciated.

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## Jguo

Bussard Ramjet said:


> I am not talking about a Nimitz stand alone. We are talking about a Nimitz escorted by a range of vessels, and itself carrying F22/F35 which have an operational range of 180-200 km.
> ......
> Your comments will be highly valued and appreciated.



You should take this discussion to another thread. This thread is about the 2014 Zhuhai Air Show.

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## xunzi

cnleio said:


> Y-20 photos on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show
> 
> View attachment 150053
> 
> View attachment 150045
> 
> View attachment 150046
> 
> View attachment 150047
> 
> View attachment 150048
> 
> View attachment 150049
> 
> View attachment 150050
> 
> View attachment 150051
> 
> View attachment 150054


That is just one beautiful sick transport airplane. The color, symmetry go so well together.


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## Bratva

Where Is JF-17 pics with weapons ?


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## aliaselin

航天科技集团第十届珠海航展达成千亿订单_中国航天科技集团公司
CASC has inked contracts for more than 100 billion yuan

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## Sanchez

Bussard Ramjet said:


> I am not talking about a Nimitz stand alone. We are talking about a Nimitz escorted by a range of vessels, and itself carrying F22/F35 which have an operational range of 180-200 km.
> 
> Americans were talking about the threat posed by this system the CX 1. They were talking in the context of Iran using these weapons. Here is the quote from the forum that I posted the link back.
> ​I am interested here in general theatre of war where China will maybe need to push out US till the second island chain. Remember, US has substantial ground bases in the region, with the one in okinawa single handedly able to operate till chinese shores. So even ignoring that for a while. How can China take out a carrier group placed around 400 km from its shores?
> How are you going to break thorugh the multiple defences of ships, counter-attack vessels, missile defence systems, and then 5th gen top notch aircraft zipping through?
> 
> Also, can you tell me more about the BW-II system?
> 
> I understand that China has much more than CX1 in its arsenal, and that is what I want to know. Your strategy.
> 
> @SvenSvensonov
> @mike2000 Your comments will be highly valued and appreciated.



400km from China's shores? You must be kidding. China's defence target is at present 1000km from our shores. To break the anti-missile defence of carrier groups, there are combined means:
1, land based ballistic and hypersonic missiles (DF-21D and M20, etc)
2, air based supersonic and subsonic cruise missiles (CM-400AKG alike, YJ-12,YJ-83, YJ-63 ande etc)
3, sea based weapons: it may or may not contain CX-1 type of missiles.

There're no air defence system in the world that could shoot down China's ballistic and hypersonic missiles (DF-21D and M20, etc).

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## j20blackdragon

Sanchez said:


> 400km from China's shores? You must be kidding. China's defence target is at present 1000km from our shores. To break the anti-missile defence of carrier groups, there are combined means:
> 1, land based ballistic and hypersonic missiles (DF-21D and M20, etc)
> 2, air based supersonic and subsonic cruise missiles (CM-400AKG alike, YJ-12,YJ-83, YJ-63 ande etc)
> 3, sea based weapons: it may or may not contain CX-1 type of missiles.
> 
> There're no air defence system in the world that could shoot down China's ballistic and hypersonic missiles (DF-21D and M20, etc).



More like 4,000 km from our shores. Now let's get back on topic.

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## Sanchez

HN-2000? You mean CJ-20, perhaps. Cruise missile along would not be enough to break the defence system of US carrier groups.


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## kuge

j20blackdragon said:


> More like 4,000 km from our shores. Now let's get back on topic.
> View attachment 149850


well that's is dubious...where is the news source?


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## Ultima Thule

kuge said:


> well that's is dubious...where is the news source?


yes he is mixing with LACM to ASCM


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## SQ8

Bratva said:


> Where Is JF-17 pics with weapons ?



Where is the Pakistani who went there specifically to take those pictures? You will see the pictures of the aircraft that enthusiasts want to see the most of.

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## Beast

Sanchez said:


> HN-2000? You mean CJ-20, perhaps. Cruise missile along would not be enough to break the defence system of US carrier groups.


Saturation attack is the key point.

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## j20blackdragon

pakistanipower said:


> yes he is mixing with LACM to ASCM



Is the Tomahawk Block IV a LACM or an ASCM? It is actually BOTH.

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## j20blackdragon

Back on topic...

J-31






Chinese SDB

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## j20blackdragon

The 'Chinese SDB' is in my opinion the most important weapon I've seen so far at this show. It is a massive force multiplier for every single PLAAF aircraft.

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## he-man

j20blackdragon said:


> Back on topic...
> 
> J-31
> 
> View attachment 150418
> 
> 
> Chinese SDB
> 
> View attachment 150419


Not bad...........is india eligible for this bird??
Btw whats the progress of single crystal blades in china??

Any idea of life span of ws series engines??


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## cnleio

China display 4x styles of Artillery Vehicle on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

CS/SH-1 122mm Howitzers truck



















CS/SM-1 81mm rapid mortar jeep

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## GeHAC

cnleio said:


> China display 4x styles of Artillery Vehicle on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show
> 
> CS/SH-1 122mm Howitzers truck
> View attachment 150427
> View attachment 150428
> View attachment 150429
> View attachment 150430
> View attachment 150431
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CS/SM-1 81mm rapid mortar jeep
> View attachment 150432
> 
> View attachment 150433
> 
> View attachment 150434
> 
> View attachment 150435
> 
> View attachment 150438


These two weapons are already in service.

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## cnleio

China display 4x styles of Artillery Vehicle on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

High-mobility 120mm Mortar jeep























CS/SH2 105mm Howitzer truck

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## cnleio

GeHAC said:


> These two weapons are already in service.


Yes, equiped by PLA SiChuan military region & many deployed in Tibet ... and PLA version install advanced ballistic computer & BeiDou GPS ... options for export version.

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## cnleio

he-man said:


> Not bad...........is india eligible for this bird??
> Btw whats the progress of single crystal blades in china??
> 
> Any idea of life span of ws series engines??



China domestic 2-gen single crystal blades-DD6 out in 2012 for WS-10A jet engine.


> WS10A用也才是第二代镍基单晶DD6,WS10刚开始用的还会第一代镍基单晶叶片。


(sorry only Chinese news, 2012 domestic single crystal blades news)
*我国航空发动机已使用国产第二代单晶涡轮叶片*

It's a military secret about life span of China WS-10A, so we don't discuss it here ... but our purpose is better than Russian's AL-31F.

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## he-man

cnleio said:


> China domestic 2-gen single crystal blades-DD6 out in 2012 for WS-10A jet engine.
> 
> (sorry only Chinese news)
> *我国航空发动机已使用国产第二代单晶涡轮叶片*
> 
> It's a military secret about life span of China WS-10A, so we don't disucess it here ... but our purpose is better than Russian's AL-31F.



al-31 f has 1500-2000 hours but 117s in su-35 is already 4000 hours.
The newer engine for pakfa will be much better


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## cnleio

he-man said:


> al-31 f has 1500-2000 hours but 117s in su-35 is already 4000 hours.
> The newer engine for pakfa will be much better


Good for India ... but China following the West standard, and China import many AL-31F jet engines from Russia, so we clearly know the life span of Russian jet engine.

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## he-man

cnleio said:


> Good for India ... but China following the West standard.



Sorry to break ur bubble...........u guys are far from it.
Catching russians in engines will take another 10-15 years atleast


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## cnleio

he-man said:


> Sorry to break ur bubble...........u guys are far from it.
> Catching russians in engines will take another 10-15 years atleast


lol ... just one decade, no problem for Chinese.  I had said China WS-13 & WS-15 under develop, next years they will out.

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## he-man

cnleio said:


> lol ... just one decade, no problem for Chinese.  I had said China WS-13 & WS-15 under develop, next years they will out.



Dosen't matter when they are out,,,point is performance.\
Copying al-31f will give u al-31f only which is 30 year old tech.

Sure india is even behind china in this atleast 8-10 years


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## cnleio

he-man said:


> Dosen't matter when they are out,,,point is performance.\
> Copying al-31f will give u al-31f only which is 30 year old tech.
> 
> Sure india is even behind china in this atleast 8-10 years


Nobody tell u Chinese copy AL-31F, or maybe u will tell me FC-31 copy F-35 ??? 
If China can copy that ... copy this, why not India ?

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## he-man

cnleio said:


> Nobody tell u Chinese copy AL-31F, or maybe u will tell FC-31 copy F-35 ???



Its not a copy but externally it resembles a lot.
Dosen't matter,,,west was unfair to asians,we should steal,borrow,loot and do whatever it takes to match them.

India should do the same

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## cnleio

he-man said:


> Its not a copy but externally it resembles a lot.
> Dosen't matter,,,west was unfair to asians,we should steal,borrow,loot and do whatever it takes to match them.
> 
> India should do the same


Find a right way doing the right thing , bro. Chinese didn't copy anything, we r R&D by ourselves + learn experiences from the West or Russia = Made in China. Without R&D, stealing tech is unwork.

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## cnleio

2014 ZhuHai Air Show - ZhuHai Airport Photos (from left to right)  ... ths 傻根儿

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## nomi007

cnleio said:


> Find a right way doing the right thing , bro. Chinese didn't copy anything, we r R&D by ourselves + learn experiences from the West or Russia = Made in China. Without R&D, stealing tech is unwork.


bro actually zhuhai airshow really hurt indians 
due to which they are now act like abnormal person
don't take them seriously

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## j20blackdragon

More J-31. 






Weapon bays open.

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## Kinetic

Stealth said:


> The name of this thread should be ... China F**** ALL! especially China one and only "enemy" neighbor LOL




China has almost all of its neighbours as enemy, which one are you talking about?

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## cranwerkhan

Kinetic said:


> China has almost all of its neighbours as enemy, which one are you talking about?



No you are mistaken that is india enemy off all neighbour.. Self claimed supa pawa

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## PakEye

*"Falcon Eagle"*
*J-31 Stealth Fighter*
*Ally Pakistan is a likely first market*​

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## SQ8

he-man said:


> Sorry to break ur bubble...........u guys are far from it.
> Catching russians in engines will take another *10-15 years* atleast



Moore's law is equally applicable here as well.

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## SQ8

pakeye said:


> *Ally Pakistan is a likely first market*​


​
Likely in whose view?


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## he-man

Oscar said:


> Moore's law is equally applicable here as well.



We are talking about enginesThey have only one template to copy and its al-31f.


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## he-man

Oscar said:


> Likely in whose view?



Why has pdf become a mess nowadays with jihadi,rss and ccp bots in huge presence of late??
Too many bullshit threads around


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## SQ8

he-man said:


> We are talking about enginesThey have only one template to copy and its al-31f.



Not exactly. They have had their templates but design was NEVER an issue. The Chinese can design a variable cycle engine today.. what they cannot do is come up with the materials to build it. Today's Chinese engines all suffer from that single limiter. To solve that the Chinese are taking the two pronged approach of try to replicate along with directed purchasing of information. Their idea is that if they can learn how to develop the alloys used on the PW-100 reliably.. they can take it further from there.

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## he-man

Oscar said:


> Not exactly. They have had their templates but design was NEVER an issue. The Chinese can design a variable cycle engine today.. what they cannot do is come up with the materials to build it. Today's Chinese engines all suffer from that single limiter. To solve that the Chinese are taking the two pronged approach of try to replicate along with directed purchasing of information. Their idea is that if they can learn how to develop the alloys used on the PW-100 reliably.. they can take it further from there.



I agree,,but with this yardstick india already has a vce,,ie kaveri(yeah) and facing same problem.......................single crystal blades and compressor components.

But chinese have surged ahead i think due to rampant and shameless(i support it btw) reverse engineering with lot of hit and trial plus of late they are putting too much money into it.

Will take just 10-15 years to overtake russia


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## Deino

pakeye said:


> *"Falcon Eagle"*
> *J-31 Stealth Fighter*
> *Ally Pakistan is a likely first market*​]




Sorry, but following this interview the PAF will not purchase the FC-31 ! Sadly ....

*



Pakistan Air Force Colonel: We do not buy the F-31 2014-11-12 14:46:14 Source: Netease military

Colonel Aamir: F-31 is a very good fighter, even better "Fierce Dragon" performance ratio. But I think the "Fierce Dragon" Air Force is currently able to meet our needs, there is no intention to buy.
Pakistan Air Force Colonel: We do not buy the F-31


November 12 morning, Netease military in front of reporters for the Pakistan Air Force Colonel Aamir had an exclusive interview, the Pakistan Air Force, he was a senior representative of the exhibition. It is worth mentioning that, in the booth across from the Palestinian side is that the F-31 stealth fighter model stands. The following is a reporter's interview with Colonel Aamir.

Do you think the "Fierce Dragon" fighter (Pakistan called JF-17) how to behave in the Pakistan Air Force?

Colonel Aamir: I think the "Fierce Dragon" is a very good fighter, maintenance, performance is very good, our Air Force pilots on the "Fierce Dragon" evaluation are very high.

How do you see for the F-31 "falcon Eagle" stealth fighter? Are Pakistan Air Force intends to buy?

Colonel Aamir: F-31 is a very good fighter, even better "Fierce Dragon" performance ratio. But I think the "Fierce Dragon" Air Force is currently able to meet our needs, there is no intention to buy.

Do you think the Pakistan Air Force in the future the possibility of cooperation in use "Fierce Dragon" fighter, the introduction of the F-31 it?

Colonel Aamir: I think it is very possible that Pakistan aircraft research and development, there are many places to learn from China.

Click to expand...

*
*Sadly I'm so far not allowed to post the link here :-(
*


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## PakEye

Oscar said:


> Likely in whose view?


China shows off new stealth fighter - Yahoo News
"China's defence industry wants to show the potential for export,"* said Andrew Erickson, associate professor at the China Maritime Studies Institute of the US Naval War College.*

Ally Pakistan is a likely first market, he added.


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## mike2000

he-man said:


> We are talking about enginesThey have only one template to copy and its al-31f.



My good friend he-man, its not possible to really copy an engine, if it was then many other countries would have done it already, but no, its not the case. Today they are still only 4 countries who have a reliable operational engine i.e U.K, U.S, France, and Russia(some will add Germany as well). its been this way for decades now, and no other country has been able to sucessfully produce(or copy) an engine that is as reliable as these 4 countries for several years/decades now. So there you go, its not everything one can copy.


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## he-man

mike2000 said:


> My good friend he-man, its not possible to really copy an engine, if it was then many other countries would have done it already, but no, its not the case. Today they are still only 4 countries who have a reliable operational engine i.e U.K, U.S, France, and Russia(some will add Germany as well). its been this way for decades now, and no other country has been able to sucessfully produce(or copy) an engine that is as reliable as these 4 countries for several years/decades now. So there you go, its not everything one can copy.



U clearly have no idea about chinese
They will do it and results will be out pretty soon for u to be shocked.

The only problem is materials,,,designing is not the difficult part here


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## Steakhouse

mike2000 said:


> My good friend he-man, its not possible to really copy an engine, if it was then many other countries would have done it already, but no, its not the case. Today they are still only 4 countries who have a reliable operational engine i.e U.K, U.S, France, and Russia(some will add Germany as well). its been this way for decades now, and no other country has been able to sucessfully produce(or copy) an engine that is as reliable as these 4 countries for several years/decades now. So there you go, its not everything one can copy.







Don't be so confident China can't match the west in jet engine production, China invest 5 billions dollar to develop the core engine, China jet engine will eventually mature with time, money, human resource invest into building their engine. Every nation go through the long process to develop jet engine. Even US and Russia mature engine caught fire on f35 and su50 while took off from the runway.


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## mike2000

he-man said:


> U clearly have no idea about chinese
> They will do it and results will be out pretty soon for u to be shocked.
> 
> The only problem is materials,,,designing is not the difficult part here



If they could, then they would have long done it. Giving they had this problem for a long time now, and have been trying to build one for a longg time. So as i said, not everything can be copied(thats if they are indeed trying to copy it). Its simply impossible to copy an engine, you can get some ideas/learn from one, but you cant really replicate it completely(not a fighter jet engine). So if they indeed suceed in building a reliable one, then i dont think its a result of blatantly copying. there must be other reasons for this.


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## PakEye

Deino said:


> Sorry, but following this interview the PAF will not purchase the FC-31 ! Sadly ....*Sadly I'm so far not allowed to post the link here :-(*


*please read last answer of Col Amir
Question : Do you think the Pakistan Air Force in the future the possibility of cooperation in use "Fierce Dragon" fighter, the introduction of the F-31 it?
Ans: Colonel Aamir: I think it is very possible that Pakistan aircraft research and development, there are many places to learn from China.*

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## he-man

mike2000 said:


> If they could, then they would have long done it. Giving they had this problem for a long time now, and have been trying to build one for a longg time. So as i said, not everything can be copied(thats if they are indeed trying to copy it). Its simply impossible to copy an engine, you can get some ideas/learn from one, but you cant really replicate it completely(not a fighter jet engine). So if they indeed suceed in building a reliable one, then i dont think its a result of blatantly copying. there must be other reasons for this.



They have done it dude,,most of their fighters are flying with ws engines which are easily spotted from al-31 due to material difference.

Its a combination of industrial level espionage,reverse engineering,innovation and lot of money

For ur knowledge russians made al41 producing 180 kn 16 years back,,but it was too heavy.


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## mike2000

Steakhouse said:


> Don't be so confident China can't match the west in jet engine production, China invest 5 billions dollar to develop the core engine, China jet engine will eventually mature with time, money, human resource invest into building their engine. Every nation go through the long process to develop jet engine. Even US and Russia mature engine caught fire on f35 and su50 while took off from the runway.



lool thats why i said even if the Chinese indeed suceed in finally building a reliable/tested one, then it wont be because of copying, since its simply impossible to copy a fighter jet engine.A fighter jet engine is not like other military systems which albeit difficult/complex, can still be copied. Engine is the most complex technology to master,. that is why i was also saying in another thread to some indian members on here, that there is no way a country will ever transfer you their engine tech NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU PAY FOR IT. Its simply the crown jewel of any country/industry, so its guarded very secretly..

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## PakEye

he-man said:


> They have done it dude,,most of their fighters are flying with ws engines which are easily spotted from al-31 due to material difference.
> Its a combination of industrial level espionage,reverse engineering,innovation and lot of money
> For ur knowledge russians made al41 producing 180 kn 16 years back,,but it was too heavy.


too heavy ????


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## Steakhouse

mike2000 said:


> lool thats why i said even if the Chinese indeed suceed in finally building a reliable/tested one, then it wont be because of copying, since its simply impossible to copy a fighter jet engine.A fighter jet engine is not like other military systems which albeit difficult/complex, can still be copied. Engine is the most complex technology to master,. that is why i was also saying in another thread to some indian members on here, that there is no way a country will ever transfer you their engine tech NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU PAY FOR IT. Its simply the crown jewel of any country/industry, so its guarded very secretly..








Of course no nation will hand over jet engine to anyone, jet engine is the heart for the jet to fly, without a mature reliable engine to power the aircraft, all the fancy 5th generation jet just become a paper airplane and will never take off from the runway. Every nation intend to build a fighter need to develop their core jet engine and not totally depend on import engine from other nation.


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## mike2000

he-man said:


> They have done it dude,,most of their fighters are flying with ws engines which are easily spotted from al-31 due to material difference.
> 
> *Its a combination of industrial level espionage,reverse engineering,innovation and lot of money*
> 
> For ur knowledge russians made al41 producing 180 kn 16 years back,,but it was too heavy.




See? thats exactly why i said even if they did(which as you said they seem to have done to some extent), its not really as a result of copying. industrial espionage is being carried out by all major powers in this world( thats those that have the capabilities) first of which is the U.S who has by far the largest spying/industrial espionnage capabilities on planet earth(they have been doing to us in the E.U as well, just like snowden revalations revealed, we also do it to them as well to be honest.) no country even comes close to the U.S on this, reverse engineering(and even copying) has been done by several other powers on planet earth for ages. just like after the end of the world war II, the German Me 262 aircraft were extensively studied by the victorious allies and contributed to work on early Soviet and US jet fighters, whivh helped them tremendously in getting ahead of others. Also our engines also were licensed widely in the US. Our most famous design, the Nene also powered the USSR's jet aircraft after a technology exchange. American designs only came fully into their own until the 1960s. So we(together with the germans) were one of the pioneers/leaders in this field.(british flag). So every country has to start from somewhere, it doesnt matter how you get there, as far as you get there. the end always justifies the means. After few years/decades, everybody forgets you ever relied on others/lagged behind, just like us and the U.S today.

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## he-man

mike2000 said:


> See? thats exactly why i said even if they did(which as you said they seem to have done to some extent), its not really as a result of copying. industrial espionage is being carried out by all major powers in this world( thats those that have the capabilities) first of which is the U.S who has by far the largest spying/industrial espionnage capabilities on planet earth(they have been doing to us in the E.U as well, just like snowden revalations revealed, we also do it to them as well to be honest.) no country even comes close to the U.S on this, reverse engineering(and even copying) has been done by several other powers on planet earth for ages. just like after the end of the world war II, the German Me 262 aircraft were extensively studied by the victorious allies and contributed to work on early Soviet and US jet fighters, whivh helped them tremendously in getting ahead of others. Also our engines also were licensed widely in the US. Their most famous design, the Nene also powered the USSR's jet aircraft after a technology exchange. American designs only came fully into their own until the 1960s. So we(together with the germans) were one of the pioneers/leaders in this field.(british flag). So every country has to start from somewhere, it doesnt matter how you get there, as far as you get there. the end always justifies the means. After few years/decades, everybody forgets you ever relied on others/lagged behind, just like us and the U.S.



World changes constantly man.
And right now its changing fast.

I am not saying they will beat everyone but its a start,,,,,the amount of human resource available in asia is tremendous at the moment.If channeled properly for next 20-30 years things will change


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## j20blackdragon



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## Steakhouse

mike2000 said:


> See? thats exactly why i said even if they did(which as you said they seem to have done to some extent), its not really as a result of copying. industrial espionage is being carried out by all major powers in this world( thats those that have the capabilities) first of which is the U.S who has by far the largest spying/industrial espionnage capabilities on planet earth(they have been doing to us in the E.U as well, just like snowden revalations revealed, we also do it to them as well to be honest.) no country even comes close to the U.S on this, reverse engineering(and even copying) has been done by several other powers on planet earth for ages. just like after the end of the world war II, the German Me 262 aircraft were extensively studied by the victorious allies and contributed to work on early Soviet and US jet fighters, whivh helped them tremendously in getting ahead of others. Also our engines also were licensed widely in the US. Their most famous design, the Nene also powered the USSR's jet aircraft after a technology exchange. American designs only came fully into their own until the 1960s. So we(together with the germans) were one of the pioneers/leaders in this field.(british flag). So every country has to start from somewhere, it doesnt matter how you get there, as far as you get there. the end always justifies the means. After few years/decades, everybody forgets you ever relied on others/lagged behind, just like us and the U.S.










Reverse engineering just mean learn from your peer with more yrs of experience compare to you, majorities of engineering understand the basic concept but in a development phase will encounter complex problem push the development behind the schedule, single component place in different angle or position can negatively affect the performance of the engine. If you able to reverse engineering the mature design, you then cut down the money, time in spending on development phase by reduce the chance of failure through the trail and error developing process.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Steakhouse said:


> Don't be so confident China can't match the west in jet engine production, China invest 5 billions dollar to develop the core engine, China jet engine will eventually mature with time, money, human resource invest into building their engine. Every nation go through the long process to develop jet engine. Even US and Russia mature engine caught fire on f35 and su50 while took off from the runway.



You need more skillful workers to pop up the production of the jet engines.

During the early induction of WS-10, we were facing this problem; some mass produced engines didn't match the quality of the testing prototype. Because we didn't have many skillful workers in this domain.

When an unexperienced worker made a mistake of 1mm of discrepancy, then the engine will lose at least 10% of performance, and something worse could even happen as well.

I say now we have by far more skillful jet engine assembly workers than a decade ago, but still not enough to match our goal for the air force modernization, that's why we are still using some Russian AL-31F engines for the substitution.

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## Penguin

cnleio said:


> 2014 ZhuHai Air Show - ZhuHai Airport Photos (from left to right)  ... ths 傻根儿
> 
> View attachment 150516


I'm struck by how similar the wing of the new PLAAF cargo jet is to that of the Il-76

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## cnleio

he-man said:


> Dosen't matter when they are out,,,point is performance.\
> Copying al-31f will give u al-31f only which is 30 year old tech.
> 
> Sure india is even behind china in this atleast 8-10 years


Let me tell a little truth here, no any offence ... ur LCA developed 30 years and mass production only means 40x purchased by IAF ... ur domestic jet engine didn't installed on any IAF fighter yet ... do u really believe india just behind China at least 8-10 years ???

1. China J-10A and J-11A/B fighter mass produce : 250x & 200x
2. China next-gen stealth fighter J-20 and FC-31 flying : 3 & 2 years
3. China domestic WS-10A jet engines had served in PLAAF's J-11A/B fighters

If Indian can catch up China above achievements within next 10years, i do trust ur words.

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## he-man

cnleio said:


> Let me tell a little truth here, no any offence ... ur LCA developed 30 years and mass production only means 40x purchased by IAF ... ur domestic jet engine didn't installed on any IAF fighter yet ... do u really believe india just behind China at least 8-10 years ???
> 
> 1. China J-10A and J-11A/B fighter mass produce : 250x & 200x
> 2. China next-gen stealth fighter J-20 and FC-31 flying : 3 & 2 years
> 3. China domestic WS-10A jet engines had served in PLAAF's J-11A/B fighters
> 
> If Indian can catch up China above achievements within next 10years, i do trust ur words.
> 
> View attachment 150607
> 
> View attachment 150606



The difference between me and u is i am not writing without thinking.Check the last 3 pages of debate and stop bashing lca with same old stupid claims.

And yes as far as engines are concerned 10 year would be a reasonable gap between india and china.Kaveri may not be perfect but it works,as a matter of fact its a variable cycle engine at that.


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## he-man

Penguin said:


> I'm struck by how similar the wing of the new PLAAF cargo jet is to that of the Il-76



And u are surprised??


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## Beast

he-man said:


> The difference between me and u is i am not writing without thinking.Check the last 3 pages of debate and stop bashing lca with same old stupid claims.
> 
> And yes as far as engines are concerned 10 year would be a reasonable gap between india and china.Kaveri may not be perfect but it works,as a matter of fact its a variable cycle engine at that.


It can't even install on aircraft to power them, how can u claim Kaveri will work.

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## cnleio

he-man said:


> The difference between me and u is i am not writing without thinking.Check the last 3 pages of debate and stop bashing lca with same old stupid claims.
> 
> And yes as far as engines are concerned 10 year would be a reasonable gap between india and china.Kaveri may not be perfect but it works,as a matter of fact its a variable cycle engine at that.


Okay, when will ur Kaveri jet engine install on a fighter and which domestic fighter ?

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## he-man

Beast said:


> It can't even install on aircraft to power them, how can u claim Kaveri will work.



I am not here to spoon feed u.Go search yourself from open sources,,it cleared trials on il-76 but its heavy and lacks optimum wet thrust.
Plus we cannot mass produce the single crystal blades yet,,,u think we won't do it in next 10 years??
It will be done,don't worry


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## he-man

cnleio said:


> Okay, when will ur Kaveri jet engine install on a fighter and which domestic fighter ?



Not in near future,,may take at least 10 years.
Depends on funding.


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## Kompromat

Deino said:


> Sorry, but following this interview the PAF will not purchase the FC-31 ! Sadly ....
> 
> 
> 
> *Sadly I'm so far not allowed to post the link here :-(*



Amir simply stated that there is PAF can't induct FC-31 'now'. Because its not ready. We will not see this jet in PAF roundels before 2020-2022.


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## he-man

Horus said:


> Amir simply stated that there is PAF can't induct FC-31 'now'. Because its not ready. We will not see this jet in PAF roundels before 2020-2022.



Hmm..........who knows what he meant


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## Kompromat

he-man said:


> Hmm..........who knows what he meant



FC-31 is the best option provided the engines issue is solved. We have to replace our F-16s regardless with new advance jets. F-35 is inconceivable for us due to the price factor.


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## Genesis

he-man said:


> I am not here to spoon feed u.Go search yourself from open sources,,it cleared trials on il-76 but its heavy and lacks optimum wet thrust.
> Plus we cannot mass produce the single crystal blades yet,,,u think we won't do it in next 10 years??
> It will be done,don't worry



Let's assume what you are saying is true, which is debatable, but let's say it is true.

What fighter would use this engine. Rafale? Nope. Tejas? Nope. PAKFA? Nope. MKI? Nope. You have no other planes, AMCA? That's too far into the future and it's medium fighter, so even if it were true Kavari can't power it. I have also heard of a joint venture with Russia on a transport, but that one uses Russian engines, not Kavari. 

There are no fighters that would use this engine, there is no incentive to finish this engine, and even if finished, who would use it.

As to IL-76, that's really not a good indication, all it shows is that somehow it won't fit into a fighter. Which I have never heard happen before. 

I seen the specs for Kavari engine, it is like WS-13, in terms of performance, though the WS-13 can actually power fighters now, WS-13 is the weakest of the Chinese engine family. 


So, no, the difference is defiantly not 10 years. 

If you still like to debate, cool, but ask yourself, even if it was done today, what fighter would it even power.

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## cnleio

he-man said:


> Not in near future,,may take at least 10 years.
> Depends on funding.


Well i just know Indian can't produce single crystal blades yet ... that let's see how many years Indian domestic blades out. It's the heart of the heart inside jet engine.

As far as i knew, 2017~2018 PLAAF wll receive J-20 mass production version and domestic WS-15 also will out before 2020. Just when we talk here, J-10B had formally joint PLAAF ... J-15 started mass production. Although China jet engine develop slowly, but our fighter update fast.

This China 1st AESA 3-gen fighter will build 200+ as same as J-10A.

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## ChineseTiger1986

he-man said:


> The difference between me and u is i am not writing without thinking.Check the last 3 pages of debate and stop bashing lca with same old stupid claims.
> 
> And yes as far as engines are concerned 10 year would be a reasonable gap between india and china.Kaveri may not be perfect but it works,as a matter of fact its a variable cycle engine at that.



I have already explained to you in the other thread; WS-10 is not a copy of AL-31, it is actually based on the design of the PW F100, and the West sold an example of the F100 gas turbine to us during the honey moon era of the 1980s.

BTW, it will be a miracle for India to reach China's engine status of 2005 by 2025. This means that you need some serious hard work to narrow down the gap to less than 20 years.

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## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I have already explained to you in the other thread; WS-10 is not a copy of AL-31, it is actually based on the design of the PW F100, and the West sold an example of the F100 gas turbine to us during the honey moon era of the 1980s.
> 
> BTW, it will be a miracle for India to reach China's engine status of 2005 by 2025. This means that you need some serious hard work to narrow down the gap to less than 20 years.


 The illusion indian always trying to rub shoulder with the Chinese. Stop bragging when the engine is not even install on prototype to do the basic flying. Putting on IL-76, I doubt it even can work. Most likely the test bed IL-76 is by 3 other engines other than Kaveri. 

That will make India a very distant from China in aeroengine.

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## Kompromat

Stick to topic guys.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> The illusion indian always trying to rub shoulder with the Chinese. Stop bragging when the engine is not even install on prototype to do the basic flying. Putting on IL-76, I doubt it even can work. Most likely the test bed IL-76 is by 3 other engines other than Kaveri.
> 
> That will make India a very distant from China in aeroengine.



The technological gap will only further increase as the WS-15 (China's F119 equivalent) is entering into the induction stage.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Horus said:


> Stick to topic guys.



Sure, we will stop by now, and hopefully off-topic comments should be deleted at first, so we wouldn't reply it.

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## rcrmj

he-man said:


> The difference between me and u is i am not writing without thinking.Check the last 3 pages of debate and stop bashing lca with same old stupid claims.
> 
> And yes as far as engines are concerned 10 year would be a reasonable gap between india and china.Kaveri may not be perfect but it works,as a matter of fact its a variable cycle engine at that.


primitive indians talking about write before think? lol, if you are saying China is 10 years behind U.S will make way more sense than India is 10 years after China````you primitive country is nothing in modern world, 
you have no modern engine industry, you cant even make a Turboprop Engine for cow sake, your Kavri is no more than a rich school project

and you seem quite keen to talk about industrial level espionage when it comes to China's advancement on techs, well here are the facts
1:as that British guy has explained, the greater the power the worse they do
2:India is still at primitive development stage, you cant even make reliable small ammunition with your own
3:without direct foreign help, none of your 'indigenous' kits would be apparent as basically you dont have the technological know-how to make a modern rifle, tank, ship, plane, rocket, satellite etc.....

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## cnleio

Official data on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show: China "TaiHang" WS-10A jet engine

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## Speeder 2

the US and the UK dominate most of the world's engine tech.

Russia is far behind as the 2nd.

The Frenchies (largely thanks to the engine tech "donated" by the US) have even capabilities than the Ruskies.

The Chinese engine tech right now is about more than half the French's.

But China grows the fastest amongst all, because the Chinese industrialisation is perhaps the fastest ever, certainly the largest ever, in human history.

The rest of the EU (Germany etc) and Japan each have some piece meals, but not the whole deal as above countries.

In comparsion to this ranking order, India's engine tech is close to 0.

The best way to gauge a country's engine capability is to see its order in global heavy industry and hard science research rankings ( both production capabilities and sophtstications). Even a country is quite oke in the ranking, there will still be a big gap between the knowledge and the means (industrial techniques+human resources), in order to turn this knowledge into high quality mass - production reality. India is almost negligible in this global picture - meaning 0.

The rule of thumb is :

after India completes its first ever national indoor-plumbing system and maintains it well (meaning: the very first step of industrialisation and the 101 mentality behind it), then add 200 years , then you perhaps could expect something.

Therefore, you won't see a globally competitive engine made-by-India during your lifetime and your next life, easily.

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## SvenSvensonov

cnleio said:


> Official data on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show: China "TaiHang" WS-10A jet engine
> 
> View attachment 150620



Making great progress, that's for sure! But the one question I have is with the reliability of the engines. I see thrust output, but no service life, cost or maintenance hours. Russian engines have a lot of thrust too, but they are notoriously high maintenance and costly to maintain. Their service lives are short too. Is any info on the reliability public and has any been corroborated? Keep in mind, and I'm not saying this will be the case for China, but Russia has been in the engine business as long as the US has and they still haven't quite solved the reliability problems with their engines. China has money, intellect and the will to become a top-tier engine producer, but I'm wondering how fast progress can be made.

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## Steakhouse

SvenSvensonov said:


> Making great progress, that's for sure! But the one question I have is with the reliability of the engines. I see thrust output, but no service life, cost or maintenance hours. Russian engines have a lot of thrust too, but they are notoriously high maintenance and costly to maintain. Their service lives are short too. Is any info on the reliability public and has any been corroborated? Keep in mind, and I'm not saying this will be the case for China, but Russia has been in the engine business as long as the US has and they still haven't quite solved the reliability problems with their engines. China has money, intellect and the will to become a top-tier engine producer, but I'm wondering how fast progress can be made.







Jet engine development need time to mature, no nation speed up the process and mass produce the unreliable jet engine to power over millions dollars costly fighter jet. China is no exception, they need to patiently develop their engine with time consuming.

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## ChineseTiger1986

SvenSvensonov said:


> Making great progress, that's for sure! But the one question I have is with the reliability of the engines. I see thrust output, but no service life, cost or maintenance hours. Russian engines have a lot of thrust too, but they are notoriously high maintenance and costly to maintain. Their service lives are short too. Is any info on the reliability public and has any been corroborated? Keep in mind, and I'm not saying this will be the case for China, but Russia has been in the engine business as long as the US has and they still haven't quite solved the reliability problems with their engines. China has money, intellect and the will to become a top-tier engine producer, but I'm wondering how fast progress can be made.



The WS-10A so far has a good track record. With more than 100 J-11B being deployed and most PLAAF pilots being regularly trained around 200 hours annually. So far there is no single accident being involved with the WS-10A.

Its overhaul lifespan is well over 1000 hours, which means the whole lifespan is over 3000 hours.

The only problem we are facing now is the production rate, since we still don't have enough skillful assembly workers.

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## cnleio

SvenSvensonov said:


> Making great progress, that's for sure! But the one question I have is with the reliability of the engines. I see thrust output, but no service life, cost or maintenance hours. Russian engines have a lot of thrust too, but they are notoriously high maintenance and costly to maintain. Their service lives are short too. Is any info on the reliability public and has any been corroborated? Keep in mind, and I'm not saying this will be the case for China, but Russia has been in the engine business as long as the US has and they still haven't quite solved the reliability problems with their engines. China has money, intellect and the will to become a top-tier engine producer, but I'm wondering how fast progress can be made.


It's OKay now.

The WS-10A serving in frontline fighter wings ... like this year Auguest PLAN J-11BH fighter intercepted a USN P-8 in SCS ... the J-11BH installing 2x "black" WS-10A jet engines.

*At least it means domestic WS-10A jet engine is combat duty now. *

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## ChineseTiger1986

Speeder 2 said:


> the US and the UK dominate most of the world's engine tech.
> 
> Russia is far behind as the 2nd.
> 
> The Frenchies (largely thanks to the engine tech "donated" by the US) have even capabilities than the Ruskies.
> 
> The Chinese engine tech right now is about more than half the French's.
> 
> But China grows the fastest amongst all, because the Chinese industrialisation is perhaps the fastest ever, certainly the largest ever, in human history.
> 
> The rest of the EU (Germany etc) and Japan each have some piece meals, but not the whole deal as above countries.
> 
> In comparsion to this ranking order, India's engine tech is close to 0.
> 
> The best way to gauge a country's engine capability is to see its order in global heavy industry and hard science research rankings ( both production capabilities and sophtstications). Even a country is quite oke in the ranking, there will still be a big gap between the knowledge and the means (industrial techniques+human resources), in order to turn this knowledge into high quality mass - production reality. India is almost negligible in this global picture - meaning 0.
> 
> The rule of thumb is :
> 
> after India completes its first ever national indoor-plumbing system and maintains it well (meaning: the very first step of industrialisation and the 101 mentality behind it), then add 200 years , then you perhaps could expect something.
> 
> Therefore, you won't see a globally competitive engine made-by-India during your lifetime and your next life, easily.



This will be my last off-topic comment.

But I have to say that France is the weakest out of the P5 nations in term of the turbofan engine.

They haven't built a high thrust 4th gen jet engine like F110/AL-31/WS-10, while the UK has also not built one yet, but they are an exception with the jet engine/gas turbine power house like R&R.

So far France is dependent on the US on the turbofan jet engine, while China isn't.

France also hasn't produced a high thrust 4th gen jet engine yet, while China has.

So overall France simply doesn't deserve to rank above China in term of the jet engine.

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## SvenSvensonov

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The WS-10A so far has a good track record. With more than 100 J-11B being deployed and most PLAAF pilots being regularly trained around 200 hours annually. So far there is no single accident being involved with the WS-10A.
> 
> Its overhaul lifespan is well over 1000 hours, which means the whole lifespan is over 3000 hours.
> 
> The only problem we are facing now is the production rate, since we still don't have enough skillful assembly workers.



So the overall lifespan is over 3000 hours? That's good! But what about the maintenance hours per flight hour. Remember, the lifespan isn't the only metric by which an engine is measured. For every hour in the air the aircraft and it's engines need many more being fine-tuned and tuned-up or else they will fail. Russian engines have this problem and are really hard and time consuming to maintain. 

The engine might not fail, it could go 1000 straight without a problem, but it will still need to be maintained or problems will happen. US systems are the same way. For every hour our aircraft spend in flight, they need to spend several hours on the ground being maintained. The F-22 was reported to need 30 hours of maintenance time per flight hour early in its life (though those numbers have since dropped)!!!


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## ChineseTiger1986

SvenSvensonov said:


> So the overall lifespan is over 3000 hours? That's good! But what about the maintenance hours per flight hour. Remember, the lifespan isn't the only metric by which an engine is measured. For every hour in the air the aircraft and it's engines need many more being fine-tuned and tuned-up or else they will fail. Russian engines have this problem and are really hard and time consuming to maintain.
> 
> The engine might not fail, it could go 1000 straight without a problem, but it will still need to be maintained or problems will happen.



Yeah, we know this problem with the AL-31F, but we have managed to prolong the lifespan of the Russian engine when we have tried to maintain and to overhaul it by ourselves.

The factory 5719 has managed to do this. And to maintain and to overhaul the AL-31F engine will provide us a lot of valuable experience to perform the very same tasks for our domestic turbofan jet engines.

中国发动机已超越AL31F：达到西方80年代水平_网易新闻中心

Here is the CCTV's document about the WS-10 engine, and it has confirmed that the WS-10 engine has passed 1000 hours or over 40 days of non-stop ground test back in 2005.

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## Donatello

SvenSvensonov said:


> So the overall lifespan is over 3000 hours? That's good! But what about the maintenance hours per flight hour. Remember, the lifespan isn't the only metric by which an engine is measured. For every hour in the air the aircraft and it's engines need many more being fine-tuned and tuned-up or else they will fail. Russian engines have this problem and are really hard and time consuming to maintain.
> 
> The engine might not fail, it could go 1000 straight without a problem, but it will still need to be maintained or problems will happen. US systems are the same way. For every hour our aircraft spend in flight, they need to spend several hours on the ground being maintained. The F-22 was reported to need 30 hours of maintenance time per flight hour early in its life (though those numbers have since dropped)!!!




Sir, there was the Mig19 that Pakistan bought, and compared to using the US aircraft, Pakistan was sick and tired of the engines on Mig19, because their MTBF and MTBO was too short. But then there was a catch: The plane and engines were so cheap, you could throw them out and buy new one. I don't mean to suggest the same with new engines, China is at least 10 years away from building jet engines at the level of RR, PW,GE,SNECMA, KLIMOV etc, but even if they can provide the engine life for 1000hrs, that is good. If the engine is cheap, you can swap out. Engine change takes how many hours on an F-16? The main issue though is, reliability during operation. It must not fail during regular operation.

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## Donatello

*China shows off new stealth fighter*

Zhuhai (China) (AFP) - China's new stealth jet fighter rocketed skywards Wednesday as Beijing puts on an unprecedented display of openness -- and military force -- at the country's premier airshow.


The black J-31 rose in a nearly vertical climb on take-off in Zhuhai before circling back and doing two rolls, in the aircraft's first announced public appearance.

The plane's existence has been the subject of rumour and speculation for years, with photographs appearing increasingly frequently on military websites in recent months.

Defence analysts say the J-31 is China's answer to the United States' F-35, though the Chinese jet lags behind the American one technologically.

The fighter's Chinese name is "Falcon Eagle" and it is manufactured by a unit of Aviation Industry Corp. of China (AVIC), whose defence arm uses the slogan: "We are making the best weapons for guardians of the peace."

The plane's debut comes amid tensions between China and its neighbours over territorial disputes, particularly Japan which has feuded with Beijing over a group of islands in the East China Sea.

China's air force said the display of military might at the airshow showed the intention to build a strong country.

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) air force "will make unremitting efforts to realise dreams of a strong China and powerful armed forces", read a sign alongside an array of eight warplanes at the airshow.

"The display... demonstrates the strength and confidence of (the) PLA Air Force to fulfil missions and achieve world peace."

China has steadily increased its defence budget for years, with funding projected to rise more than 12 percent to $132 billion in 2014. But the US has accused Beijing of under-reporting its spending by as much as 20 percent in the past.

- 'Huge power' -



Defence analysts said China appears eager to sell the new fifth generation fighter abroad, also putting on display a model with a designation typically used for overseas destinations: FC-31.

"China's defence industry wants to show the potential for export," said Andrew Erickson, associate professor at the China Maritime Studies Institute of the US Naval War College.

*Ally Pakistan is a likely first market, he added.*

AVIC has already developed another fighter plane, the FC-1, in cooperation with Pakistan which was also on display at the show.

A large military transport plane, the Y-20, also made its debut at the show, flying lumbering turns over the crowd at its public outing on Wednesday.

"Of course, it is an advance in technology," said the announcer as spectators craned their necks to see it against a smoggy sky.

The China National Precision Machinery Import-Export Corp., the firm at the heart of controversy over the supply of a long-range anti-missile system to Turkey in the face of US opposition, also had a presence at the show, but its booth was devoid of product displays.

The firm, which is under US sanctions for selling arms and missile technology to Iran and Syria, declined to provide promotional materials or answer questions when approached by a journalist.

Although billed as an airshow, new sponsor China North Industries Corp (NORINCO) showed off a battle tank, the VT4, which proved a popular backdrop for visitor photos.

Other countries in the Asian region have beefed up military spending in response to China's growing power.

"It's a bit of a dance that happens all over the world," said Briand Greer, president of aerospace for Asia-Pacific at US conglomerate Honeywell.

"Economically everyone is tied to what happens in China," he said. "But at the same time, you’ve got a huge power rising right in your backyard so you don’t want to feel helpless."

*Source:-*
China shows off new stealth fighter - Yahoo News


So more and more people in the west are expecting J/FC31 in Pakistan.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Donatello said:


> Sir, there was the Mig19 that Pakistan bought, and compared to using the US aircraft, Pakistan was sick and tired of the engines on Mig19, because their MTBF and MTBO was too short. But then there was a catch: The plane and engines were so cheap, you could throw them out and buy new one. I don't mean to suggest the same with new engines, China is at least 10 years away from building jet engines at the level of RR, PW,GE,SNECMA, KLIMOV etc, but even if they can provide the engine life for 1000hrs, that is good. If the engine is cheap, you can swap out. Engine change takes how many hours on an F-16? The main issue though is, reliability during operation. It must not fail during regular operation.



Agree you with RR/PW/GE, also partially with Klimov, but not with Snecma.

We are the third nation who has successfully built the high thrust 4th gen jet engine after the US and Russia, even the UK hasn't done that, but I will still currently rank them above China due the powerhouse like RR.

The WS-10 is not inferior to F110 and AL-31 in its design and performance, just less mature due its the youngest 4th gen turbofan jet engine out there.

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## Donatello

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Agree you with RR/PW/GE, also partially with Klimov, but not with Snecma.
> 
> We are the third nation who has successfully built the high thrust 4th gen jet engine after the US and Russia, even the UK has done that, but I will still currently rank them above China.
> 
> The WS-10 is not inferior to F110 and AL-31 in its design and performance, just less mature due its the youngest 4th gen turbofan jet engine out there.



Hi,

I am not talking about engine thrust, but reliability. An engine does me no good if it fails during critical flying modes. Reliability comes from metallurgy, otherwise the jet engine principles of operation have remain the same for 60 years.....suck squeeze bang blow. Same as the Otto cycle for car engines.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Donatello said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am not talking about engine thrust, but reliability. An engine does me no good if it fails during critical flying modes. Reliability comes from metallurgy, otherwise the jet engine principles of operation have remain the same for 60 years.....suck squeeze bang blow. Same as the Otto cycle for car engines.



The track record of our jet engine so far is good.

Our PLAAF pilots regularly fly with our J-11B for over 200 hours every year, so far no accident with involved with the engine failure.

And for 60 years? Tell me which kind of jet engine will serve more than 60 years?

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## Donatello

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The track record of our jet engine so far is good.
> 
> Our PLAAF pilots regularly fly with our J-11B for over 200 hours every year, so far no accident with involved with the engine failure.
> 
> And for 60 years? Tell me which kind of jet engine will serve more than 60 years?



No i meant that the basics of a jet engine design are 60 years old.


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## cirr

he-man said:


> We are talking about enginesThey have only one template to copy and its al-31f.



You are utterly and totally wrong。

I won't go into the details，but would tell you this：China is on the cusp of major breakthroughs in engine technologies。

Russian engines？lol！

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## ChineseTiger1986

Donatello said:


> No i meant that the basics of a jet engine design are 60 years old.



What do you mean for 60 years?

I don't think any country will still use a jet engine which was designed back in 60 years ago.

When your new jet engine has passed 10 years of safety flight record, this means it is becoming quite reliable and mature.

For example, neither the F135 nor even the F119 are as reliable as the F110, even though they are designed to be superior.


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## longlong

mike2000 said:


> lool thats why i said even if the Chinese indeed suceed in finally building a reliable/tested one, then it wont be because of copying, since its simply impossible to copy a fighter jet engine.A fighter jet engine is not like other military systems which albeit difficult/complex, can still be copied. Engine is the most complex technology to master,. that is why i was also saying in another thread to some indian members on here, that there is no way a country will ever transfer you their engine tech NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU PAY FOR IT. Its simply the crown jewel of any country/industry, so its guarded very secretly..


Jet engine is not as difficult as you thought which human beings could make it 70 years ago.
Jet engines are supported by two legs: 1) Full range industries 2) $$$
China has them both.

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## ChineseTiger1986

longlong said:


> Jet engine is not as difficult as you thought which human beings could make it 70 years ago.
> Jet engines are supported by two legs: 1) Full range industries 2) $$$
> China has them both.



It is hard to impossible for other nations, especially for those non-P5 nations, but not for China.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Steakhouse said:


> Of course no nation will hand over jet engine to anyone, jet engine is the heart for the jet to fly, without a mature reliable engine to power the aircraft, all the fancy 5th generation jet just become a paper airplane and will never take off from the runway. Every nation intend to build a fighter need to develop their core jet engine and not totally depend on import engine from other nation.



Indeed, that's why we are absolutely on our own for the development of J-20.

J-31 is not as crucial as J-20, so we are temporarily using the RD-93, but not for PLAAF's next gen backbone like J-20.

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## longlong

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is hard to impossible for other nations, especially for those non-P5 nations, but not for China.


So I would like predict UK and Russia will quit soon when China flood the market with their cheap and good engines.


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## ChineseTiger1986

longlong said:


> So I would like predict UK and Russia will quit this market soon.



It is hard to say right now.

For now, only the US has deployed the true 5th gen turbofan jet engine, while we have to see how long it will take China to deploy our WS-15, and how well the UK and Russia will do in the next decade.

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## cirr

China's J-31 Stealth Fighter: Then and Now | Popular Science


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## yusheng

Oscar said:


> Not exactly. They have had their templates but design was NEVER an issue. The Chinese can design a variable cycle engine today.. what they cannot do is come up with the materials to build it. Today's Chinese engines all suffer from that single limiter. To solve that the Chinese are taking the two pronged approach of try to replicate along with directed purchasing of information. Their idea is that if they can learn how to develop the alloys used on the PW-100 reliably.. they can take it further from there.



NO, you are wrong, the material is not question, China has been long exporting turbo engine blades for years to western countries, like US,UK, there are other reasons that China did not show its air engine productive abilities.
欢迎莅临无锡透平叶片有限公司—电站汽轮机|燃汽轮机|工业用汽轮机|鼓风机|轴流压缩机|叶片

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## xunzi

Sanchez said:


> 400km from China's shores? You must be kidding. China's defence target is at present 1000km from our shores. To break the anti-missile defence of carrier groups, there are combined means:
> 1, land based ballistic and hypersonic missiles (DF-21D and M20, etc)
> 2, air based supersonic and subsonic cruise missiles (CM-400AKG alike, YJ-12,YJ-83, YJ-63 ande etc)
> 3, sea based weapons: it may or may not contain CX-1 type of missiles.
> 
> There're no air defence system in the world that could shoot down China's ballistic and hypersonic missiles (DF-21D and M20, etc).


DF-21D can change mid-court during flight so it's very difficult to intercept and track. The way to destroy a DF-21D is locating its Missile Control Center and destroy it, otherwise it is helplessly just hoping that it misses the target. While AC is large, when moving can be difficult to pinpoint. This is why it is important that our thousands of merchant ships equipped with GPS locator can send the exact location of AC so we can accurately target it in addition to satellite tracking.

Anyhow that post is moronic. He undervalue our missile range and kept that stupid perception of our noisy submarine when the Yuan Class attack submarine is even more quieter than the Kilo-class submarine which are known as the "black hole" of the ocean.

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## ChineseTiger1986

yusheng said:


> NO, you are wrong, the material is not question, China has been long exporting turbo engine blades for years to western countries, like US,UK, there are other reasons that China did not show its air engine productive abilities.
> 欢迎莅临无锡透平叶片有限公司—电站汽轮机|燃汽轮机|工业用汽轮机|鼓风机|轴流压缩机|叶片



This is an old news, now GE has also joined the party.

This time, it is for the gas turbine.

国内首台套航改型燃气轮机发电机组下线--能源--人民网

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## yusheng

Oscar said:


> Not exactly. They have had their templates but design was NEVER an issue. The Chinese can design a variable cycle engine today.. what they cannot do is come up with the materials to build it. Today's Chinese engines all suffer from that single limiter. To solve that the Chinese are taking the two pronged approach of try to replicate along with directed purchasing of information. Their idea is that if they can learn how to develop the alloys used on the PW-100 reliably.. they can take it further from there.



sorry, translated by machine, hope you can understand


Wuxi blades again gaining world aviation tycoon Rawls Royce orders

发布时间：2014-09-10 浏览：728 
Date of release: 2014-09-10 browsing: 728

聚焦高端市场、紧跟先进制造业发展潮流，转型中的无锡叶片渐入佳境，在国际航空市场屡有斩获。日前，继2014年4月一举获得罗尔斯•罗伊斯发动机低压后三级涡轮盘锻件每年不低于20%份额的十年合同，打破世界三大航空巨头从未在中国乃至亚洲采购高温合金转动件的历史，无锡叶片再次斩获罗尔斯•罗伊斯新订单。这意味着公司拓展海外航空市场的战略又向前迈出了一步。
Focus on the high-end market, closely follow the development trend of advanced manufacturing industry, Wuxi blades gradually entering blissful circumstances in transition, in the international aviation market gains. Recently, following the 2014 April has won the Rawls Royce engine low pressure after three stage turbine disk forging each year not less than 20% share of the ten year contract, to break the world's three largest aviation giant has never been in Chinese and Asia purchasing high temperature alloy rotating part of history, Wuxi blades cut again won the Rawls Royce new orders. This means that companies expand overseas aviation market strategy and step forward.

本次无锡叶片获得的罗尔斯•罗伊斯 订单为遄达XWB 84K压气机转子叶片1级每年不低于33%份额的十年订单。据悉，压气机转子叶片工作环境复杂、受到的载荷状况严酷，是航空发动机中最易发生故障的叶片，制造难度较高，无锡叶片凭借先进的航空发动机叶片小余量精密锻造成型及精密机械加工变形控制技术，获得罗尔斯•罗伊斯的信赖与厚望，成为亚洲第一个也是目前唯一为罗尔斯•罗伊斯提供压气机转子叶片的企业。罗尔斯•罗伊斯计划继续在无锡叶片采购助力空客A350的最新发动机——最畅销的遄达XWB 97K和助力波音787梦想飞机的遄达1000-TEN发动机第1级和第2级压气机转子叶片，合计3款发动机共6级转子叶片。
The Wuxi blades won the Rawls Royce orders for the Trent XWB 84K compressor rotor blade of grade 1 year not less than 33% share ten years orders. It is reported that the compressor rotor blade of complex working environment and loading conditions are harsh, blade is liable to fail in aero engine, making higher difficulties, Wuxi blades with advanced aero engine blade precision forging forming small margin and precision machining deformation control technology, trust and expectations of Rawls Royce, became the first Asian is currently the only provide the compressor rotor blade for Rawls Royce's enterprise. Rawls Royce plans to continue purchasing power in Wuxi leaves the Airbus A350 engine - the latest best-selling Trent XWB 97K and assist the Boeing 787 Dreamliner Trent 1000-TEN engines of first stage and second stage compressor rotor blade, a total of 3 engines were 6 stage rotor blades.

根据罗尔斯•罗伊斯 预测，未来20年间全球民用航空发动机的市场总需求约为1.4万亿美元，加上航空发动机生产的国际化分工势头明显，零部件转包市场不断扩大，无锡叶片预判，未来3-5年公司航空业务有望实现大幅增长。
According to Rawls Royce predicted that the future of global market of civil aviation engine 20 years total demand for about $1.4, production of aero - engine plus the international division of labor trend parts subcontracting market expansion, Wuxi blades pre sentence, the next 3-5 years aviation business is expected to achieve substantial growth.

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## 帅的一匹

The vice chairman of CCP Li Yuan Chao visited Su-35 in Zhuhai airshow today, means something?


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## yusheng

Institute of Metal Research

The Institute of Metal Research (IMR), Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) was founded in 1953. Since then, IMR has firmly established itself as an indispensable base for materials science and engineering research in China. Research at IMR focuses mainly on high performance metallic materials, new types of inorganic nonmetallic materials, and advanced composite materials. IMR’s research is directed towards the understanding and characterization of materials properties, structure and performance, as well as materials synthesis and fabrication, processing, and application. Our mission is to excel in materials research, develop advanced materials technology and foster exceptional talents, thus serving the nation, society and mankind.

ON划词翻译ON实时翻译4月4日，英国罗罗公司亚洲供应商管理执行官Caroline Chambers博士和中国区采购执行官方洪祥一行四人访问金属所，针对双方新签定合同就资质认证、质量控制、进度管理以及合作模式等事项与金属所钛铝叶片研发团队进行了深入交流。
In April 4th, Dr. Caroline Chambers, executive officer and Chinese area purchasing executive official Hong Xiang a line of four access metal British Rolls Royce asia supplier management, for the two sides signed the contract on the new qualification certification, quality control, schedule management and cooperation mode matters with metal titanium aluminum blade R & D team conducted in-depth exchanges.

杨锐所长会见了罗罗公司来访人员，向客人介绍了金属所研发活动概况。研发团队介绍了前期工作基础以及承接新任务的准备情况和进度安排。Chambers博士对金属所在前期工作中取得的成绩表示祝贺，对双方合作成果表示满意。她希望金属所适应新任务性质的变化，进一步加强资源管理和质量控制，同时表示将配合金属所做好相关协调工作。
Yang Rui met with visiting personnel director of Rolls Royce, briefed the guests on the R & D activities of metal. R & D team introduced the basis of the previous work and undertake the new mission readiness and schedule. Dr. Chambers said congratulations to obtain metal where the preliminary work achievements, the two sides expressed satisfaction with the results of cooperation. She hoped that the metal adapt to the new changes in the nature of the task, further strengthen the resource management and quality control, also said it would cooperate with the metal well coordinating work.

罗罗公司亚洲供应商管理执行官Caroline Chambers访问金属所----中国科学院金属研究所

来访期间，Chambers博士等人详细了解了叶片制造的关键工艺，察看了生产现场。
During the visit, Dr. Chambers and others with the understanding of the key technology of blade manufacturing, inspected the production site.





罗罗公司亚洲供应商管理执行官Caroline Chambers访问金属所----中国科学院金属研究所






Made a number of original results Yang Rui led the team in intermetallic compounds of order disorder transformation, TiAl alloy, solidification theory of lamellar microstructure control, solves the problem of TiAl alloy under the conditions of production of volatile Mn content difficult technical problems of control and boride morphology optimization, realize the effective control of the alloy composition and microstructure; combined with the casting process simulation results, in 2008 July and 2009 December, has overcome the TiAl Airlines complete engine turbine blade filling and eliminate the blade surface loose two technical difficulties. The famous British aviation engine manufacturing Rolls Royce has been engaged in the TiAl net leaf size GE company development USA unresolved casting technology.

罗罗公司派人来金属所现场考察后，双方就TiAl叶片制造正式签署技术合作协议。杨锐领导的团队研制的TiAl叶片通过了罗罗公司进行的振动疲劳试验，疲劳寿命达设计寿命的2倍以上，标志他们掌握了合金成分与微观组织控制、性能稳定性和铸造加工工艺等关键技术，处于国际领先水平。在2010年中方与英方两国政府签订合作的40余项技术合作项目中，杨锐负责的 TiAl叶片成为唯一一项向英国出口的高技术项目。2010年获得“周光召基金会应用科学奖”。
Rolls Royce company sent to metal site visit, both sides TiAl blade manufacturing formally signed a technical cooperation agreement. TiAl leaf development Yang Rui led the team through the Rolls Royce of vibration fatigue test, fatigue life up to the design life of more than 2 times, the sign that they mastered the key technology of alloy composition and microstructure control, performance stability and casting process, at the international leading level. In 2010 Chinese and British governments signed cooperation more than 40 technical cooperation projects, TiAl leaves Yang Rui in charge as the only one to the British exports of high technology projects. In 2010 was "Zhou Guangzhao foundation applied science award".

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## 帅的一匹

i think the SU35 deal is very near, waiting the specific technical detail to be knocked down.


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## 帅的一匹

@vostok ,how you percieve this?


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## 帅的一匹

look at the shit face Obama has in APEC when Xi and Putin getting closed like brothers in Pekin.

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## ChineseTiger1986

wanglaokan said:


> The vice chairman of CCP Li Yuan Chao visited Su-35 in Zhuhai airshow today, means something?



Technologically, it is not a big deal for us, but politically it is a big deal.

Since Putin has started to persuade us to buy some Russian made manufacturing products since long time ago, he even hints to us to open the market for the Russian smartphone.

Smart-gift: Putin presents Chinese leader with dual-screen YotaPhone — RT News

For Putin, only buying the natural resources from Russia is not truly a deepening economic cooperation, and we have to buy some of their manufacturing products. It is mandatory.

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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> The vice chairman of CCP Li Yuan Chao visited Su-35 in Zhuhai airshow today, means something?


 He telling Russian to stop wasting their time trying to selling Su35 to China.

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## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Technologically, it is not a big deal for us, but politically it is a big deal.
> 
> Since Putin has started to persuade us to buy some Russian made manufacturing products since long time ago, he even hints to us to open the market for the Russian smartphone.
> 
> Smart-gift: Putin presents Chinese leader with dual-screen YotaPhone — RT News
> 
> For Putin, only buying the natural resources from Russia is not truly a deepening economic cooperation, and we have to buy some of their manufacturing products. It is mandatory.


 We can continue to buy their Mi-26 heavy helo. Heavy Helo is one area where Russian still has edge over is.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> We can continue to buy their Mi-26 heavy helo. Heavy Helo is one area where Russian still has edge over is.



Russia is desperate to sell their Su-35, and they were even agreeing to transfer the technology to Brazil, but still got rejected with a such special offer.

Rosoboronexport offers Su-35 fighters and technology transfer to Brazil outside the framework of a tender - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM

Now they are picking on us, and i know it is very annoying to see Su-35 when we are nearly ready for our J-20 with the WS-15 engine, but we have no choice, it is simply for the political purpose.

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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> The vice chairman of CCP Li Yuan Chao visited Su-35 in Zhuhai airshow today, means something?



Vice President of the PRC。


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> He telling Russian to stop wasting their time trying to selling Su35 to China.



The PLAAF clearly doesn't want Su-35, and it has officially denied the purchase deal.

Beijing Denies Russian Rumors of Su-35 Purchase; Evaluating China's Intelligence Penetration of Taiwan | The Jamestown Foundation

But the rumor just keeps respawning because it has became a political request, since Putin has pressed our leaders to accept Su-35 since many years ago. Now our leaders are taking the pressure here from both side, the PLAAF and Russia.

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## pigtaker

russia is in a difficult time, and we on the other hand have tons of money. buying Su-35 with limited number is a gesture to give russia some support. I root for it.

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## ChineseTiger1986

pigtaker said:


> russia is in a difficult time, and we on the other hand have tons of money. buying Su-35 with limited number is a gesture to give russia some support. I root for it.



That's pretty much the point.

Although it cannot be compared with J-20, Su-35 on the other hand is still a good aircraft, so it can fulfill the quantity of our air force in a quick rate.

It would also take you a lot of time to build the modern aircrafts in large number.

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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The PLAAF clearly doesn't want Su-35, and it has officially denied the purchase deal.
> 
> Beijing Denies Russian Rumors of Su-35 Purchase; Evaluating China's Intelligence Penetration of Taiwan | The Jamestown Foundation
> 
> But the rumor just keeps respawning because it has became a political request, since Putin has pressed our leaders to accept Su-35 since many years ago. Now our leaders are taking the pressure here from both side, the PLAAF and Russia.


I also support China buy some Su-35 from Russia, no bad for PLAAF flying Su-35 fighters ... win-win for both us.
Spend little money to get double security, i still believe Su-35 is a good 3.5-gen fighter. If $$$ useless to Russian, Chinese can do goods-exchanging trade to each other.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> I also support China buy some Su-35 from Russia, no bad for PLAAF flying Su-35 fighters ... win-win for both us.
> Spend little money to get double security, i still believe Su-35 is a good 3.5-gen fighter.



If Russia can sell 80 million per unit, then we could definitely considering buying up to 50, even 100.

But we are still concerning about their current production capability, consider their own induction rate and the old story of IL-76.

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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If Russia can sell 80 million per unit, then we could definitely considering buying up to 50, even 100.
> 
> But we are still concerning about their current production capability, consider their own induction rate and the old story of IL-76.


First batch of 42x Su-35 is enough ... after Russian can deliver all to China our J-20 must ready ... save money for next-gen stealth fighters, bro !

Remember one Chinese leg has been in stealth fighter club, we need try to put another leg into the door. It's the 1st importance PLAAF must consider within next 10years.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> First batch of 42x Su-35 is enough ... after Russian can deliver all to China our J-20 must ready ... save money for next-gen stealth fighters, bro !



And hopefully they can deliver this 42 units batch in a quick time, because the story with IL-76 was pretty frightening.

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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> And hopefully they can deliver this 42 units batch in a quick time, because the story with IL-76 was pretty frightening.


No more IL-76, Y-20 will replace them especially when WS-20 ready ... say bye to IL-76.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> No more IL-76, Y-20 will replace them especially when WS-20 ready ... say bye to IL-76.



Yeah, the IL-76 deal has pretty much screwed us when we have paid the money but the product was not delivered.

So hopefully the deal of Su-35 won't have such unpleasant experience.

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## cnleio

Self_delete


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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yeah, the IL-76 deal has pretty much screwed us when we have paid the money but the product was not delivered.
> 
> So hopefully the deal of Su-35 won't have such unpleasant experience.


Let me tell u a truth ... Russia is not the USSR, get used to it and Russia also has many old fighter since USSR wait to update.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> Let me tell u a truth ... Russia is not the USSR, get used to it and Russia also has many old fighter since USSR wait to update.



Yep, the money of Su-35 is basically the meal to survive for their military industrial complex, if they can deliver the products on time, then good. Otherwise, we shouldn't expect more from this money.


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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, the money of Su-35 is basically the meal to survive for their military industrial complex, if they can deliver the products on time, then good. Otherwise, we shouldn't expect more from this money.


Tell u another truth here, in future only few nations in this world can afford the huge cost of advanced 3.5-gen or 4-gen fighters.

More advanced weapon means more money burning ... military expenditure will be a problem for many nations. More expensive weapon/fighter means less foreign customers !!!

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> Tell u another truth here, in future only few nations in this world can afford the huge cost of advanced 3.5-gen or 4-gen fighters.
> 
> More advanced weapon means more money burning ... military expenditure will be a problem for many nations.



Indeed, that's why Russia's first priority is to keep the nuclear arsenal and the sub fleet.

And it is good to see that China is taking the opportunity with its massive booming economy and unmatched production capability to thrive in all the domains of its military industrial complex. This is a feat that only the US can match with us.

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## Genesis

might as well buy the SU-35 for relations, the engine's vectoring, and to act as a force to simulate an Indian war.


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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Indeed, that's why Russia's first priority is to keep the nuclear arsenal and the sub fleet.
> 
> And it is good to see that China is taking the opportunity with its massive booming economy and unmatched production capability to thrive in all the domains of its military industrial complex. This is a feat that only the US can match with us.


Not "only the U.S can match us" , it's China caught up the U.S bro ! 

I believe in next years U.S still be the N.o1 Superpower in a long time ... but China rapidly decrease the gap between us ... this situation will continue until $ over and U.S really bankrupt.

The economy is the best weapon, it's a true truth in this world especially useful to the SuperPower. The time changed, in future the developed nations will decrease ... developing nation will increase ... the best weapon of China is our "Made in China".

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> Not "only the U.S can match us" , it's China caught up the U.S bro ! I believe in next years U.S still be the N.o1 Superpower in a long time ... but China rapidly decrease the gap between us ... this situation will continue until $ over and U.S really bankrupt.
> 
> The economy is the best weapon, it's a true truth in this world especilly useful to the SuperPower.



Yep, we will see how long this catch up game will last.


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## MastanKhan

Bussard Ramjet said:


> How hard is it to destroy a Nimitz class carrier?
> The people in those forum were saying that it will take more than one or two missile strike to sink it. Is it true?
> 
> I have just read about this ---> USS America. Apparently they used it as a target after decommisioning it to check an aircraft strength. Does someone know about this?



Hi,

With missiles you can only disable it---to sink it----you need to nuc it.


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## abaseen99



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## Beast

pigtaker said:


> russia is in a difficult time, and we on the other hand have tons of money. buying Su-35 with limited number is a gesture to give russia some support. I root for it.


 The times of Russia being a higher status partner is not more. If Russia wants this allies to work. They must treat China as equal partner. There is no such thing call buying a few as gesture. Why not Russia buy a few 071 LDP as gesture since I believe they need it for navy modernization too.

If they want Chinese to buy their product, they must bring out quality which is no where to be seen from the finishing of their Su-35.

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## nomi007

any inside images of y-20


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## 帅的一匹

Beast said:


> The times of Russia being a higher status partner is not more. If Russia wants this allies to work. They must treat China as equal partner. There is no such thing call buying a few as gesture. Why not Russia buy a few 071 LDP as gesture since I believe they need it for navy modernization too.
> 
> If they want Chinese to buy their product, they must bring out quality which is no where to be seen from the finishing of their Su-35.


I takes a while before Russia realize what CHina capable of, they will buy Chinese stuff in the future. Mark my word.

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## aliaselin

巴基斯坦少将披露巴军已参观过歼20 并驾驶歼10|歼20|中国|珠海航展_新浪军事
Pakistan pilots have flown J-10 and looked through J-20. 48 JF-17 block II are in production, and will be shown in next months.

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## 帅的一匹

aliaselin said:


> 巴基斯坦少将披露巴军已参观过歼20 并驾驶歼10|歼20|中国|珠海航展_新浪军事
> Pakistan pilots have flown J-10 and looked through J-20. 48 JF-17 block II are in production, and will be shown in next months.


PAF is the only airforce in the world that allowed to take a close look at J20, it shows the deep trust we have in PAkistan.

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## cnleio

FN-16 MANPADS display on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show



> 在航天科工集团的展区，一款名为FN-16的便携式防空导弹引起了记者的关注，之前外媒曾报道，中国生产的FN-6便携式防空导弹曾现身国外热点冲突地区，引起了国内外关注。
> 据介绍，FN-16便携式防空导弹是FN-6导弹的升级版本，各项技术均有较大提高。具体来说，有三方面的提高：一是采用了红外紫光玫瑰双色扫描技术，将探测距离提高到了9公里，射程达到6公里，并且有较强的抗干扰能力;二是采用了侧向力技术，不需要计算提前量、直接采用直瞄射击;三是采用了激光近战引信碰撞技术，大幅提高了杀伤能力。

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## cnleio

China CM-102 ARM on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show, range 100km/ warhead 80kg / accuracy <7m



> 第十届中国航展在珠海开幕，由中国航天科工集团研制的CM-102型反辐射导弹亮相航展现场。CM-102型反辐射导弹为超声速导弹，可挂载到歼击机、强击机等各类固定翼飞机及无人机上，用于攻击敌各类防空导弹武器系统制导雷达和警戒、引导雷达，实施空中压制，为空中进攻作战提供保障。该型导弹最大射程100公里，战斗部重80公斤，对典型雷达命中精度CEP不大于7米。该型导弹具有作战使用灵活、发射包络宽、命中精度高、战斗部威力大等特点。

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## xueri

Bussard Ramjet said:


> I am not talking about a Nimitz stand alone. We are talking about a Nimitz escorted by a range of vessels, and itself carrying F22/F35 which have an operational range of 180-200 km.
> 
> Americans were talking about the threat posed by this system the CX 1. They were talking in the context of Iran using these weapons. Here is the quote from the forum that I posted the link back.
> "To begin with, you have to realize that it is almost impossible to directly threaten a US carrier at sea.
> 
> To start, they have a pretty impressive array of defensive ships surrounding it. Typically 4-5 Arleigh Burke class destroyers, and a Ticonderoga class cruiser. All by themselves, each of these ships has a pretty powerful anti-missile system. Working in combination, I doubt any missiles would get through.
> 
> And even if they do, the carrier then has a lot of defensive firepower of it's own.
> 
> Depending upon the ship, from 2-3 RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile launchers, 2-3 Sea Sparrow missile launchers, and 2-3 PHALANX CIWS systems. In addition, you have E-2 Hawkeye AEW aircraft. If the carrier is operating in "hostile territory", expect one of these in the air at all times.
> 
> So now you not only have the powerful and sophisticated AEGIS RADAR systems looking for missiles from the ground, you have the E-2C/D series aircraft looking for them from the air in a look-down capability. So it's ability to "sea skim" to avoid detection is greatly reduced. This may keep them out of sight of the Tico's and Burke's, but not the Hawkeye.
> 
> And the newest series, the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye has some pretty impressive capabilities. It's RADAR capabilities are tied into the AEGIS system, and can actually target and guide an SM-6 ship based missile. So the destroyers and cruisers are no longer limited to what their RADAR can see, the AEW aircraft can actually target inbound threats while they are still over the horizon from the ship, up to the 240 km range of the missile itself.
> 
> So before it can even hit the carrier, it has to get through a "crapstorm" of defensive weapons systems, each of which is designed to destroy such inbound missiles. Then it has to actually find the carrier. Not exactly an easy task in and of itself. These weapons target by RADAR, so they will target any large vessel they find (or even a rock formation that comes close to what it is looking for).
> 
> These missiles are fast (MACH 1.5+), have a decent range (around 400 miles), and pack a decent punch (750kg of HE). But they are also large, so easier to target by defensive systems then say the smaller EXOCET or SILKWORM missiles.
> 
> So to try to fully answer, is this missile a threat to US ships? Yes, unquestionably - depending on how many can be volley fired at a time. Soviet-Russian tactics dictate launching 2-3 groups of 6-7 missiles ideally (one missile of each group operating as a "controller", popping up from time to time to get RADAR fixes and navigation corrections, then relaying those to the rest of the swarm). That means anywhere from 12-21 missiles being aimed at the carrier group. Now that many missiles at a time you will have one or two get through the defensive systems. But will they actually target the carrier? Likely not, they would want to target the defensive vessels, making future waves more likely to penetrate and making the group retire from the area for fear of future strikes actually getting through.
> 
> Now is say Iran capable of launching such massive swarms? Not likely, their surface ships are all armed with missiles that are domestic or Chinese copies of the EXOCET, a missile that is much less capable. None of them can be converted to fire a missile of this size, which would mean they would need to build much larger ships before they could use them at sea. This means they are limited to ground launching.
> 
> And now you are talking about roughly 2-3 batteries of such launchers. They might be lucky enough to get 1 volley off, possibly 2 before they are then hunted down and destroyed by the aircraft on the carrier. Before the missiles are even intercepted, the CAP is going to be screaming towards theselaunchers, trying to take them out before they can fire another volley. So the best way for Iran to use them would be to fire, then immediately try to hide in pre-prepared bunkers. And hope they are not discovered.
> 
> Threat to the carrier, insignificant. Threat to the carrier group, low to moderate. But once again, depending upon the number of missiles that can be fired in a volley. 1-2 missiles at a time, almost laughably small risk. A Soviet planned volley of 20+ missiles, now you are talking a significant risk to the carrier group, a moderate risk to the carrier itself (not in being sunk, but in being damaged - US carriers are massive and remarkably tough vessels)."​
> Then someone asked what will happen in a coordinated strike, that is if China tries to attack using bombers, submarines and missiles together against the carriers. The guy has this to say about that.
> A well written quote. I would guess you would be pretty accurate in that one dimensional scenario. My question is when the Chinese or whomever decide to leverage their missiles in a multidimensional attack strategy. We cant say our enemies are dumb. Using a time on target multi axis attack vector from different platforms and weapons types. Say a combination attack of missiles, bombers, and submarines utilizing the strengths of each while trying to cover for their for their weakness. Using the missiles and bombers to soak up cap fighters and ADA missiles and making the Task force go into high speed mode wear they lose their ears, leaving them open to ambush by a cruse missile equipped submarine stalking at distance and a diesel attack boat stalking close in that can use their fish the moment the Task Force goes into ADA evasion mode. The Chinese do have some capability to pull off a coordinated attack like that. How would a task force fair against a combination threat like that? Me I would never do a one dimensional attack against any force if I could help it. Its too easy to defend against.​
> To which the other guy replies this:
> 
> Interesting concept. However, it is a well known military axiom that the more complex a plan is, the more likely it is that something will go wrong.
> 
> Part of the very idea of a "surprise attack" is that it is sudden without warning. A launch of say a dozen of these missiles could be done with almost no warning.
> 
> A plan like you are talking about however, is not stealthy at all. The preparation for the attack would be seen days in advance, preparations of this nature simply can't be hidden like they were in WWII. We keep a close track on where all of their subs are at all times. And if we see them putting out to sea (they are almost constantly tied up to the dock), that would be noticed immediately. And the same with their bombers and fighters taking to the air.
> 
> Over The Horizon RADAR is pretty piss-poor for targeting, but it is effective in early warning. As is the E-2 AEW bird, with a RADAR range of over 400 miles. You would have to have a very staggered deployment if these are all going to be striking the fleet at the same time.
> 
> First, the subs would have to put out to sea. And Chinese subs are notorious for being among the noisiest subs among major nations.
> 
> Then the bombers have to take to the skies. Their only bomber is the Xian H-6, a domestic copy of the Tu-16 (and dating to 1959). These subsonic bombers (MACH .75) only carry 6 Saccade/Silkworm missiles. And trust me, the moment that the bombers start to take to the skies, the fleet is going to be moving full speed ahead to safer waters. And all available fighters will be screaming off of the carrier towards the bombers, knowing that they have to be less then 110 miles from the target before they can launch their missiles.
> 
> Oh, and BTW, the range for the SM-2 is 115 miles. So just before the bombers get in range, they will be met by the first of the inbound missiles trying to take them out. The F/A-18E/F fighters will also be streaking towards them at MACH 1.8.
> 
> And their submarine attack capabilities even if they are within range are not all that impressive. If outfitted all-out for anti-ship attack, that only gives each one 12-24 submarine launched Silkworm missiles, that are of questionable functionality (China is known to have problems with these submarine launched missiles - doctrine says for the ship to surface before launching).
> 
> The problems here is that China is known to not trust their submarines, and almost never deploy more then 1 or 2 at a time. The moment more started to take to sea, defensive postures will change dramatically. The moment bombers started to take to the skies, CAP will be increased and fighters will go out so they can meet them before they arrive.
> 
> ADA is irrelevant, since we would not be talking about a land battle. This would be an Air-Naval battle, ADA would not be within hundreds of miles of this conflict with only one exception. That would be if raising tensions had caused one concept for keeping China off of Taiwan. The US places it's CTF to the East of Taiwan, and placed PATRIOT-THAAD on Taiwan. Then I would expect almost no risk to the carrier, China would not have the range or ability to punch through the missile defenses of Taiwan.
> 
> Trust me, I do very much think of these in "multi-dimensional" ways. And with the alleged speed of this missile being over twice that of the bombers, the bombers would likely already be fighting it out with the fighters before the missiles were ever launched. And knowing the ranges, I could not understand any reason why the carrier would be operating in their range in the first place. It is a carrier with aircraft, it has no need to be operating less then 250 miles from shore during a time of heightened tensions.​
> 
> I am interested here in general theatre of war where China will maybe need to push out US till the second island chain. Remember, US has substantial ground bases in the region, with the one in okinawa single handedly able to operate till chinese shores. So even ignoring that for a while. How can China take out a carrier group placed around 400 km from its shores?
> How are you going to break thorugh the multiple defences of ships, counter-attack vessels, missile defence systems, and then 5th gen top notch aircraft zipping through?
> 
> Also, can you tell me more about the BW-II system?
> 
> I understand that China has much more than CX1 in its arsenal, and that is what I want to know. Your strategy.
> 
> @SvenSvensonov
> @mike2000 Your comments will be highly valued and appreciated.


The operation range of F35C is over 800KM.
180-200 km is WW2 level. Of course you can use Brahmos to easily sink a fleet of WW2 level.

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## xueri

he-man said:


> I am not here to spoon feed u.Go search yourself from open sources,,it cleared trials on il-76 but its heavy and lacks optimum wet thrust.
> Plus we cannot mass produce the single crystal blades yet,,,u think we won't do it in next 10 years??
> It will be done,don't worry


It depends on the development of your industry.
Increase funding is not enough. Too much variables.
LCA is a vivid example.

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## vostok

wanglaokan said:


> @vostok ,how you percieve this?


Frankly, I'm tired of this story about saling Su-35

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## cnleio

LOL funny ... Lockheed Martin "spy" FC-31 v2.0 mockup on ZhuHai Air Show 

The guy from Lockheed Martin's intellectual property agency ... lol.  Good employee !



> 第10届珠海航展期间，一名老外在中航工业最新推出的FC-31/新版歼-31战机模型前，用手机类装置拍了整整一个上午，尤其重点拍摄了尾部和弹舱。
> 据现场群众猜测，此人是美国洛克希德·马丁公司的知识产权代表。美方这种行为，一方面或许有搜集所谓的中国“窃密”的证据。
> 可是从另一面讲，在大家心目中早已默认，歼-31将是美方F-35的竞争对手！作为几乎注定要在未来国际市场上激烈碰撞的先进隐身战机，美方的准备早已经开始！

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## aliaselin

中航通飞10架小鹰500将出口南非 预计年底启动_新闻_腾讯网
AVIC has inked contract to sell 100 "Little Eagle 500" to South Africa

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## cirr

“Wind Storm”，a must-see video：

http://v.ifeng.com/include/exterior.swf?guid=01306032-88a9-4732-a29c-66199bf82d65&AutoPlay=false

Mission accomplished。

Enjoy！

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## qwerrty

aliaselin said:


> 中航通飞10架小鹰500将出口南非 预计年底启动_新闻_腾讯网
> AVIC has inked contract to sell 100 "Little Eagle 500" to South Africa



another new buyer. cool 

little eagle

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## cnleio

China two styles of Top Attack ATM on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show: HJ-12 & TS-01 

HJ-12 Top Attack ATM detail pics 


















HJ-12 CDD TV guided warhead






HJ-12 IR guided warhead

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## cnleio

China two styles of Top Attack ATM on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show: HJ-12 & TS-01 

Poly's TS-01 Top Attack ATM pics, China version light Javelin 




















Compared with U.S Javelin ATM











What's this ???

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## xueri

cirr said:


> “Wind Storm”，a must-see video：
> 
> 
> 
> Mission accomplished。
> 
> Enjoy！


We do not sell the product, but the solution


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## cnleio

More China next-gen fighter cockpit v2.0 pics, everything looks very fine. 

@SvenSvensonov _What u think ? _ Official news said that China HMD helmet is ready for produce. 



> 鹘鹰的照片，无论是1.0版的实机还是2.0版的模型，已经看得有些腻了。这次珠海航展上展出的所谓先进战斗机座舱其实还是有些看点的。这款座舱模型，采用了宽屏主显，一个较大的下显，另外配备了三个较小的备用显示器，除了仍旧配备有平视显示器（HUD）外，这些配置和美帝的F35有些类似。从主显上那个小小的飞机图像可以基本判断出这个座舱模型应该是鹘鹰2.0版的配置，相信歼20原型机2011的座舱也会和这个类似。
> 
> 这个座舱模型的另一个亮点就是模特头上戴的这款头盔了，从外形上看和F35用的头显有些类似，但是由于此款座舱配备了HUD，这款头盔可能仅仅是个改进型的头瞄。但是按环球军事记者采访，*该概念座舱内飞行员人体模型头上所戴的是一款具备头盔显示系统的新型作战头盔*。据研制该座舱的负责人介绍，该新型概念座舱具备综合控制、综合处理、综合显示的能力，采用高度集成化设计。其所使用的*头盔显示系统能够从机体外侧的摄像头获取图像，并能根据飞行员头部转动进行计算，实现精准跟踪*。*飞行员可以从头盔显示器上获取战机各个角度的图像*，对于瞬息万变的战场态势的感知能力将大幅度提高。同时，飞行员还可以*通过头盔显示器对目标进行跟踪、锁定，然后向目标发射导弹进行攻击*。*据悉，该型头盔显示系统已经定型*。




























Compared with F-35 HMD

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## SQ8

yusheng said:


> NO, you are wrong, the material is not question, China has been long exporting turbo engine blades for years to western countries, like US,UK, there are other reasons that China did not show its air engine productive abilities.
> 欢迎莅临无锡透平叶片有限公司—电站汽轮机|燃汽轮机|工业用汽轮机|鼓风机|轴流压缩机|叶片



I would disagree, There are different levels of performance for Engines and their Blades. What China is able to develop and export is different from what it needs. the Rolls Royce Trent Blades are for performance on airliners.. not combat fighters. Moreover, if just making jet fighter engines would have solved China's Jet engine woes then the earlier Wopen series of engines should have led to a reliable fighter turbofan engine out to power its J-10 and today the J-31.

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## xunzi

There is little reason to buy Su-35 which is why we are lukewarm to the idea unless it's cheap and offer some technology transfer, otherwise, it is just a waste of money when money can be spend on buying more J-31 and J-20.

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## Sulman Badshah

cnleio said:


> What's this ???


Israeli spike


----------



## cnleio

Sulman Badshah said:


> Israeli spike


Thank you, it's Spike-MR (Gill).

The launcher is very big ... I remember news said India Army will buy 1,000x Spike ATM like this one ??? Good luck to them...


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## Sulman Badshah

wanglaokan said:


> PAF is the only airforce in the world that allowed to take a close look at J20, it shows the deep trust we have in PAkistan.


It is the trust b/w Pak n china that is building a strong brotherhood among us ....

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## Sulman Badshah

cnleio said:


> India Army will buy 1,000x Spike ATM like this one


they are buying 8300 spikes i guess ,,,..


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## Path-Finder

cnleio said:


> China two styles of Top Attack ATM on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show: HJ-12 & TS-01
> 
> HJ-12 Top Attack ATM detail pics
> 
> View attachment 150752
> 
> View attachment 150740
> 
> View attachment 150741
> 
> View attachment 150743
> 
> 
> HJ-12 CDD TV guided warhead
> 
> View attachment 150744
> 
> 
> HJ-12 IR guided warhead
> 
> View attachment 150745
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 150746
> 
> View attachment 150747





cnleio said:


> China two styles of Top Attack ATM on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show: HJ-12 & TS-01
> 
> Poly's TS-01 Top Attack ATM pics, China version light Javelin
> 
> View attachment 150753
> 
> View attachment 150754
> 
> View attachment 150755
> 
> View attachment 150756
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared with U.S Javelin ATM
> 
> View attachment 150763
> 
> View attachment 150761
> 
> 
> 
> What's this ???
> View attachment 150762



Damn this post made my day!

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## aliaselin

An excellent video to show WS systems and GATSS system
http://v.ifeng.com/include/exterior.swf?AutoPlay=false&guid=01306032-88a9-4732-a29c-66199bf82d65

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## Path-Finder



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## Beast

cnleio said:


> FN-16 MANPADS display on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 150702
> View attachment 150703
> View attachment 150704
> View attachment 150705
> View attachment 150706
> View attachment 150707
> View attachment 150708



Why the FN series Manpad switch back to Sa-7 style?


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## AMDR

CM-708UNA Sub-Launched ASCM

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## bolo

cnleio said:


> LOL funny ... Lockheed Martin "spy" FC-31 v2.0 mockup on ZhuHai Air Show
> 
> The guy from Lockheed Martin's intellectual property agency ... lol.  Good employee !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 150719
> 
> View attachment 150720
> 
> View attachment 150721
> 
> View attachment 150722
> 
> View attachment 150723
> 
> View attachment 150724



what is that man doing ? A spy?


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## SOHEIL

bolo said:


> what is that man doing ? A spy?



Looking at weapon bay design!


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## Beast

aliaselin said:


> An excellent video to show WS systems and GATSS system
> http://v.ifeng.com/include/exterior.swf?AutoPlay=false&guid=01306032-88a9-4732-a29c-66199bf82d65








This video of WS rocket was made 7 years ago. You can see how China mature this system into current GATSS system.






I am wondering why they never combine with SY-4?

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## aliaselin

Beast said:


> This video of WS rocket was made 7 years ago. You can see how China mature this system into current GATSS system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am wondering why they never combine with SY-4?


They belongs to different companies and competitors

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## Ray_of_Hope

Path-Finder said:


> View attachment 150819
> View attachment 150820


Looks like a pretty nice missile.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> The times of Russia being a higher status partner is not more. If Russia wants this allies to work. They must treat China as equal partner. There is no such thing call buying a few as gesture. Why not Russia buy a few 071 LDP as gesture since I believe they need it for navy modernization too.
> 
> If they want Chinese to buy their product, they must bring out quality which is no where to be seen from the finishing of their Su-35.



Actually, we have annually enjoying the trade surplus with Russia, so letting them to eat some cake is also a must.

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## cnleio

bolo said:


> what is that man doing ? A spy?


Scan FC-31 v2.0 mockup, Lockheed Martin will research FC-31 design by Chinese colleagues. Future F-35 and FC-31 they r big competitors, American is very careful.

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## bolo

cnleio said:


> Scan FC-31 v2.0 mockup, Lockheed Martin will research FC-31 design by Chinese colleagues. Future F-35 and FC-31 they r big competitors, American is very careful.


the barriers are there for a reason. The barriers should be further away from the airplane. I can't imagine a Chinese doing that in a Euro airshow without securities questioning the person.

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## cnleio

More China next-gen cockpit & HMD pics ...

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## cnleio

bolo said:


> the barriers are there for a reason. The barriers should be further away from the airplane. I can't imagine a Chinese doing that in a Euro airshow without securities questioning the person.


It's OKay !

LOL ... we can do or we can't do ? Im sure both U.S and China clearly know our strengths ... we r a qualified competitor.


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## Kompromat

@cirr pls post wing loon uav's images.

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## Derolo

Why is this called an Air Show?


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## j20blackdragon

This should give you an _idea_ of how the DF-21D _might_ work. The DF-21D will obviously be bigger and more sophisticated than this. Once again, China doesn't showcase her best weapons at Zhuhai Air Show.

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## bolo

cnleio said:


> It's OKay !
> 
> LOL ... we can do or we can't do ? Im sure both U.S and China clearly know our strengths ... we r a qualified competitor.


There is a sense of paranoia in western countries regarding Chinese spying. If you did what this guy did, securities will question you if they caught you doing it.

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## cnleio

Good Stuff ! China HULC display on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show 

LOL ... Movie 《Edge of Tomorrow》 










China HULC

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## PakEye

Derolo said:


> Why is this called an Air Show?


introducing many new aircrafts by single host country 
specially the FC-31 Stealth Fighter the competitor of US F-35


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## cnleio

Good Stuff ! China HULC display on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Derolo said:


> Why is this called an Air Show?


Arms embargo to China and no West nation selling weapons in China, so we don't call Defense Exhibition.


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## Derolo

pakeye said:


> introducing many new aircrafts by single host country
> specially the FC-31 Stealth Fighter the competitor of US F-35



Then why showcase trucks, lav's,random missiles etc stuff that dosent have anything to do with the air.

Its an impressive display all right quite impressive but to call it an air show dosent seem right.


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## cnleio

Good Stuff ! China HULC display on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

HULC Comparison 































Future Combat HULC will be:











@SvenSvensonov, bro. we have good stuff pics here.

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## Malik Alashter

cnleio said:


> Not "only the U.S can match us" , it's China caught up the U.S bro !
> 
> I believe in next years U.S still be the N.o1 Superpower in a long time ... but China rapidly decrease the gap between us ... this situation will continue until $ over and U.S really bankrupt.
> 
> The economy is the best weapon, it's a true truth in this world especially useful to the SuperPower. The time changed, in future the developed nations will decrease ... developing nation will increase ... the best weapon of China is our "Made in China".


Guys don't forget the economy of the US feed the growth of China the time when the US bankrupt that's the time where you should be worry about your growth.


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## cnleio

Malik Alashter said:


> Guys don't forget the economy of the US feed the growth of China the time when the US bankrupt that's the time where you should be worry about your growth.


Yes, i said it's a long time maybe more than decades, and China also developing stronger. Now U.S is still the great N.o1 Superpower, we r just N.o2 ... here China would not to do anything when internal crisis make U.S really bankrupt, China will automatically update to N.o1 from N.o2 chair.

The Human History just repeat once and once again, when U.S game over by theirselve i believe China is ready ... China also have decades time to develop, whatever N.o1 or N.o2 all not bad for us.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Malik Alashter said:


> Guys don't forget the economy of the US feed the growth of China the time when the US bankrupt that's the time where you should be worry about your growth.



The US contribution to our economic growth is grossly exaggerated, since they are not even our biggest trading partner, nor our number 1 foreign investor.

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## Malik Alashter

cnleio said:


> Yes, i said it's a long time maybe more than decades, and China also developing stronger. Now U.S is still the great N.o1 Superpower, we r just N.o2 ... here China would not to do anything when internal crisis make U.S really bankrupt, China will automatically update to N.o1 from N.o2 chair.
> 
> The Human History just repeat once and once again, when U.S game over by theirselve i believe China is ready ... China also have decades time to develop, whatever N.o1 or N.o2 all not bad for us.


I think china will be in a good shape economicaly even if something happen to the US or with US, when the power purchase of the Chinese person at least trippled since the chinese population is so big but so far The US and EU are the one who


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The US contribution to our economic growth is grossly exaggerated, since they are not even our biggest trading partner, nor our number 1 foreign investor.


Sorry then who is the one then. here in the US almost every thing made in China I mean electronics and appliances and so on.


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## Malik Alashter

Any way I realy enjoyed this thread from the first page to current one China developed greatly hopefully that will help the world in better ways.

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## Oldman1

Malik Alashter said:


> I think china will be in a good shape economicaly even if something happen to the US or with US, when the power purchase of the Chinese person at least trippled since the chinese population is so big but so far The US and EU are the one who
> 
> Sorry then who is the one then. here in the US almost every thing made in China I mean electronics and appliances and so on.



Hes just trying to deny that the U.S. can have a massive influence on China's economy if something happens like ban imports of Chinese goods that could lead to millions of Chinese workers out of work if war breaks out. Not to mentions other countries that China goes to war with like Vietnam and Japan and so on.


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## Malik Alashter

Oldman1 said:


> Hes just trying to deny that the U.S. can have a massive influence on China's economy if something happens like ban imports of Chinese goods that could lead to millions of Chinese workers out of work if war breaks out. Not to mentions other countries that China goes to war with like Vietnam and Japan and so on.


Agree thats what I meant. the US feed their grow no doubt.


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## Frogman

*Египет выразил заинтересованность в приобретении китайских самолетов ДРЛО*
Дата публикации : 13.11.14 Редактор : Сергей Берзов

Представители военно-воздушных сил Египта выразили заинтересованность в возможном приобретении китайских самолетов дальнего радиолокационного обнаружения (ДРЛО). Так Египет проявил интерес к самолету ДРЛО ZDK-03, разработанным корпорацией China Electronics Technologies Group, сообщает mil.news.sina.com.cn

Самолет ДРЛО ZDK-03 представляет собой дальнейшее развитие самолёта дальнего радиолокационного обнаружения и управления KJ-200, который принят на вооружение Китая.

Основное видимое отличие ZDK-03 от KJ-200 заключается в размещении антенной системы РТК в «классическом» вращающемся дисковом обтекателе над фюзеляжем. Такая компоновка, по всей видимости, ранее отрабатывалась на летающей лаборатории, созданной на базе транспортного самолета Y-8F-400 (бортовой номер Т0518), фотографии которого можно найти в китайском интернете. 

В 2006 году Пакистан подписал контракт c китайской China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC) на разработку и поставку ему четырех самолетов ZDK-03 Karakoram Eagle в 2008 году. Самолеты называются ZDK-03 в честь CETC (сокращенное китайское название компании читается как Zhong Dian Ke). Цифра "03" означает, что это уже третий комплекс ДРЛО, созданный компанией - первыми двумя были KJ-2000, KJ-200.

Поставленные в прошлом году в Пакистан три самолета ZDK-03 стали первыми китайскими комплексами ДРЛО, направленными на экспорт.


*Egypt has expressed interest in acquiring Chinese AWACS*
Date of publication: 11.13.14 Editor: Sergey Bersee
Representatives from the Air Force in Egypt have expressed interest in the possible acquisition of Chinese AEW (AWACS).Since Egypt has expressed interest in the aircraft ZDK-03 AEW designed Corporation China Electronics Technologies Group, reports mil.news.sina.com.cn

AWACS aircraft ZDK-03 is a further development of the aircraft airborne early warning and control KJ-200, which is adopted for China.

The main visible difference ZDK-03 from KJ-200 is the antenna system of RTC in the "classical" rotating disk radome above the fuselage. Such an arrangement is likely, previously worked out on a flying laboratory, established on the basis of the transport plane Y-8F-400 (tail number T0518), photos of which can be found on the Chinese Internet. 

In 2006, Pakistan signed a contract c Chinese China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC) to develop and deliver him to four aircraft ZDK-03 Karakoram Eagle in 2008. Aircraft called ZDK-03 in honor of CETC (abbreviated Chinese name of the company reads like Zhong Dian Ke).The number "03" indicates that this is the third set of AWACS, created by the company - the first two were the KJ-2000, KJ-200.

Set last year in Pakistan three aircraft ZDK-03 became the first Chinese AWACS complexes aimed at export.


Египет выразил заинтересованность в приобретении китайских самолетов ДРЛО

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## cnleio

Malik Alashter said:


> I think china will be in a good shape economicaly even if something happen to the US or with US, when the power purchase of the Chinese person at least trippled since the chinese population is so big but so far The US and EU are the one who


China good economy based on "Made In China", and a 1.3bill Chinese market.

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## cnleio

Oldman1 said:


> Hes just trying to deny that the U.S. can have a massive influence on China's economy if something happens like ban imports of Chinese goods that could lead to millions of Chinese workers out of work if war breaks out.


1. China didn't only export goods to U.S ... the truth is, U.S is China 2nd biggest trade parnter, China is ur 2nd biggest trade parnter just behind E.U. When U.S ban Chinese goods, China will ban too.

2. Except China export goods, China also has a 1.3bil Chinese market ... even Apple sold millions of goods in this market each year, right now they earn money in China more than America. This internal consume market of 1.3bil Chinese will bigger & stronger than American.

3. Now American can't leave "Made In China" away, the price & quality is a big problem to normal American family.

4. Without U.S, China advanced techs still developing and get more achievements. This 2014 ZhuHai Air Show is the best example !!!




Oldman1 said:


> Not to mentions other countries that China goes to war with like Vietnam and Japan and so on.


1. Sino-Vietnam War had happened, nothing affect China and become more powerful ... u'd better ask Vietnamese now they wanna war or peace with China ?

2. China go to war with Japan ? LOL ... they did in WWII once again ?

It's a very simple question ... in Aisa who really wanna abandon development and start a WAR with China ? There's another word ... who wanna a WAR with Nuclear Power China ?

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## Kompromat

j20blackdragon said:


> This should give you an _idea_ of how the DF-21D _might_ work. The DF-21D will obviously be bigger and more sophisticated than this. Once again, China doesn't showcase her best weapons at Zhuhai Air Show.
> 
> View attachment 151005
> 
> View attachment 151009



Range?


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## Oldman1

cnleio said:


> 1. China didn't only export goods to U.S ... the truth is, U.S is China 2nd biggest trade parnter, China is ur 2nd biggest trade parnter just behind E.U. When U.S ban Chinese goods, China will ban too.
> 
> 2. Except China export goods, China also has a 1.3bil Chinese market ... even Apple sold millions of goods in this market each year, right now they earn money in China more than America. This internal consume market of 1.3bil Chinese will bigger & stronger than American.
> 
> 3. Now American can't leave "Made In China" away, the price & quality is a big problem to normal American family.
> 
> 4. Without U.S, China advanced techs still developing and get more achievements. This 2014 ZhuHai Air Show is the best example !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Sino-Vietnam War had happened, nothing affect China and become more powerful ... u'd better ask Vietnamese now they wanna war or peace with China ?
> 
> 2. China go to war with Japan ? LOL ... they did in WWII once again ?
> 
> It's a very simple question ... in Aisa who really wanna abandon development and start a WAR with China ???



So what we have a big trade imbalance with China anyways and we are mostly service economy not manufacturing while China is. As I said before millions of Chinese workers will be out of jobs with American demand just suddenly gone.


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## Oldman1

cnleio said:


> 1. China didn't only export goods to U.S ... the truth is, U.S is China 2nd biggest trade parnter, China is ur 2nd biggest trade parnter just behind E.U. When U.S ban Chinese goods, China will ban too.
> 
> 2. Except China export goods, China also has a 1.3bil Chinese market ... even Apple sold millions of goods in this market each year, right now they earn money in China more than America. This internal consume market of 1.3bil Chinese will bigger & stronger than American.
> 
> 3. Now American can't leave "Made In China" away, the price & quality is a big problem to normal American family.
> 
> 4. Without U.S, China advanced techs still developing and get more achievements. This 2014 ZhuHai Air Show is the best example !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Sino-Vietnam War had happened, nothing affect China and become more powerful ... u'd better ask Vietnamese now they wanna war or peace with China ?
> 
> 2. China go to war with Japan ? LOL ... they did in WWII once again ?
> 
> It's a very simple question ... in Aisa who really wanna abandon development and start a WAR with China ???



Depends on China willing to start a conflict by invading Senkaku Islands and so on with Japan.


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## twocents

Derolo said:


> Why is this called an Air Show?



There is already talk of naming it Zhuhai defence expo.

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## cnleio

Oldman1 said:


> Depends on China willing to start a conflict by invading Senkaku Islands and so on with Japan.


China Coast Guard ships will always patrolling on the water of DiaoYu / Senkaku islands, let's see how the war start ... lol !

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## Oldman1

cnleio said:


> China Coast Guard ships will always patrolling on the water of DiaoYu / Senkaku islands, let's see how the war start ... lol !



Patrolling near it is not the same thing as saying Senkaku Islands is your. Unless you actually land forces there, its not yours. Its Japan's.

It be like saying American warships patrol in South China Sea, does it mean its ours?


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## cnleio

Oldman1 said:


> So what we have a big trade imbalance with China anyways and we are mostly service economy not manufacturing while China is. As I said before millions of Chinese workers will be out of jobs with American demand just suddenly gone.


I told u China is ur 2nd biggest trade parnter ... well "Made in China" need Chinese workers, "Made in U.S" not need American workers, right ?

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## Oldman1

cnleio said:


> I told u China is ur 2nd biggest trade parnter ... well "Made in China" need Chinese workers, "Made in U.S" not need American workers, right ?



Exactly, meaning if we don't want Chinese products made by Chinese workers, other countries can replace China with cheap goods made for American consumers like perhaps Vietnam or Bangladesh.

U.S. economy is based on majority on services not manufacturing, you can look it up.


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## cnleio

Oldman1 said:


> Patrolling near it is not the same thing as saying Senkaku Islands is your. Unless you actually land forces there, its not yours. Its Japan's.
> 
> It be like saying American warships patrol in South China Sea, does it mean its ours?


War with China, Japan or U.S ... it won't happen, our ships continue appear in there.

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## Oldman1

cnleio said:


> War with China, Japan or U.S ... it won't happen, our ships continue appeare in there.



That depends on China's actions on those islands with Japan. Til then American warships also patrol SCS as well, doesn't mean we own it.


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## cnleio

Oldman1 said:


> Exactly, meaning if we don't want Chinese products made by Chinese workers, other countries can replace China with cheap goods made for American consumers like perhaps Vietnam or Bangladesh.
> 
> U.S. economy is based on majority on services not manufacturing, you can look it up.


How many goods u bought Made in Vietnam or Bangladesh right now ? If not, u'd better try it quickly before u ban "Made in China" first ... Kid ! My suggestion for u, is throw all Made in China goods in ur family and replace them with Made in Vietnam or Bangladesh.

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## Oldman1

cnleio said:


> How many goods u bought Made in Vietnam or Bangladesh right now ? If not, u'd better try it quackly before u ban "Made in China" first ... Kid !



If you go to war with the U.S. I guaranteed it will be a different story. Chinese goods will stop flowing into the U.S. and other countries will replace China for producing cheap goods. Right now China provides cheap labor unless Chinese workers demand higher wages for the hours they work.


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## cnleio

Oldman1 said:


> If you go to war with the U.S. I guaranteed it will be a different story. Chinese goods will stop flowing into the U.S. and other countries will replace China for producing cheap goods. Right now China provides cheap labor unless Chinese workers demand higher wages for the hours they work.


LOL ... China won't go war with ur U.S, coz ur nation is our 2nd biggest trade parnter and we need earn more $ from American customer especially like U ! Im sure future U.S will replace E.U as our 1st biggest trade parnter ... ur ppl cann't leave China away, Kid !

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## Penguin

he-man said:


> And u are surprised??


What's that supposed to mean?

The tail by contrast is more similar to that of the C-17.


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## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> If you go to war with the U.S. I guaranteed it will be a different story. Chinese goods will stop flowing into the U.S. and other countries will replace China for producing cheap goods. Right now China provides cheap labor unless Chinese workers demand higher wages for the hours they work.


That's an ignorant statement. I gurantee if US goes to war with China now , many products export from China export to US are not replaceable by other countries. Rome is not build in a day. So as your Vietnam and Bangladesh supply chain. After a decade, China would have moved up the supply chain and start supplying like C919 high end product.

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## DoTell

Oldman1 said:


> If you go to war with the U.S. I guaranteed it will be a different story. Chinese goods will stop flowing into the U.S. and other countries will replace China for producing cheap goods. Right now China provides cheap labor unless Chinese workers demand higher wages for the hours they work.



So you think goods can come out of thin air from any country? If the U.S. could have bought those "goods" at the same price with the same quality they would've done it years ago. What's stopping them?

There many reasons China builds their products at lower cost than other country, not just cheap labor. We have an abundance of skilled workers and highly developed infrastructure. Products can be built and shipped quickly. Any material needed is easily attainable. And most importantly, China is a vast market of its own. 

On your war talk. Why would China "invade" the Diaoyu Island? We are already patrolling the water around it just like the Japanese. Japan has not occupied it with people even though their government has "purchased it". They even block their own people from getting on the island. Do you see them changing this status any time soon?

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## Akasa

Derolo said:


> Why is this called an Air Show?



Because everybody's feeling air-headed after seeing all this new equipment. Quite a surprise to many.


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## Beast

Frogman said:


> View attachment 151103
> 
> 
> *Египет выразил заинтересованность в приобретении китайских самолетов ДРЛО*
> Дата публикации : 13.11.14 Редактор : Сергей Берзов
> 
> Представители военно-воздушных сил Египта выразили заинтересованность в возможном приобретении китайских самолетов дальнего радиолокационного обнаружения (ДРЛО). Так Египет проявил интерес к самолету ДРЛО ZDK-03, разработанным корпорацией China Electronics Technologies Group, сообщает mil.news.sina.com.cn
> 
> Самолет ДРЛО ZDK-03 представляет собой дальнейшее развитие самолёта дальнего радиолокационного обнаружения и управления KJ-200, который принят на вооружение Китая.
> 
> Основное видимое отличие ZDK-03 от KJ-200 заключается в размещении антенной системы РТК в «классическом» вращающемся дисковом обтекателе над фюзеляжем. Такая компоновка, по всей видимости, ранее отрабатывалась на летающей лаборатории, созданной на базе транспортного самолета Y-8F-400 (бортовой номер Т0518), фотографии которого можно найти в китайском интернете.
> 
> В 2006 году Пакистан подписал контракт c китайской China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC) на разработку и поставку ему четырех самолетов ZDK-03 Karakoram Eagle в 2008 году. Самолеты называются ZDK-03 в честь CETC (сокращенное китайское название компании читается как Zhong Dian Ke). Цифра "03" означает, что это уже третий комплекс ДРЛО, созданный компанией - первыми двумя были KJ-2000, KJ-200.
> 
> Поставленные в прошлом году в Пакистан три самолета ZDK-03 стали первыми китайскими комплексами ДРЛО, направленными на экспорт.
> 
> 
> *Egypt has expressed interest in acquiring Chinese AWACS*
> Date of publication: 11.13.14 Editor: Sergey Bersee
> Representatives from the Air Force in Egypt have expressed interest in the possible acquisition of Chinese AEW (AWACS).Since Egypt has expressed interest in the aircraft ZDK-03 AEW designed Corporation China Electronics Technologies Group, reports mil.news.sina.com.cn
> 
> AWACS aircraft ZDK-03 is a further development of the aircraft airborne early warning and control KJ-200, which is adopted for China.
> 
> The main visible difference ZDK-03 from KJ-200 is the antenna system of RTC in the "classical" rotating disk radome above the fuselage. Such an arrangement is likely, previously worked out on a flying laboratory, established on the basis of the transport plane Y-8F-400 (tail number T0518), photos of which can be found on the Chinese Internet.
> 
> In 2006, Pakistan signed a contract c Chinese China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC) to develop and deliver him to four aircraft ZDK-03 Karakoram Eagle in 2008. Aircraft called ZDK-03 in honor of CETC (abbreviated Chinese name of the company reads like Zhong Dian Ke).The number "03" indicates that this is the third set of AWACS, created by the company - the first two were the KJ-2000, KJ-200.
> 
> Set last year in Pakistan three aircraft ZDK-03 became the first Chinese AWACS complexes aimed at export.
> 
> 
> Египет выразил заинтересованность в приобретении китайских самолетов ДРЛО


If they buy Chinese AWACS, they need to buy Chinese fighter jet too. If not, the AWACS can monitor the war situation but can't direct the data to Egypt fighter jets.

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## Frogman

Beast said:


> If they buy Chinese AWACS, they need to buy Chinese fighter jet too. If not, the AWACS can monitor the war situation but can't direct the data to Egypt fighter jets.



We shall see.


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## Beast

Frogman said:


> We shall see.


China Hongdu L-15 is a good choice to cheaply mass replace the Mig-21 Bison of Egypt airforce.

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## aliaselin

F-80 medium range air-to-air missile

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## Frogman

Beast said:


> China Hongdu L-15 is a good choice to cheaply mass replace the Mig-21 Bison of Egypt airforce.



L-15 is already being looked at by the EAF to replace aging advanced trainers such as the Alpha Jet and L-59 Super Albatross. The Mig-29/35 and (if possible) F-16 will replace Mig-21 fighters.

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## Kompromat

Frogman said:


> L-15 is already being looked at by the EAF to replace aging advanced trainers such as the Alpha Jet and L-59 Super Albatross. The Mig-29/35 and (if possible) F-16 will replace Mig-21 fighters.



Why is EAF buying both Mig-29 and 35? - Why not just buy the 35?


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## Frogman

Horus said:


> Why is EAF buying both Mig-29 and 35? - Why not just buy the 35?



Most likely because the 35s production line has not started yet. Most people are saying that the Mig-29M which will be delivered to Egypt will feature much of what is planned for the 35 (i.e AESA radar, IRST etc.) but will not have the structural upgrades of the 35. We won't really know the reason until (or if) an official statement is made or the 29s are delivered.

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## cirr

Malik Alashter said:


> Guys don't forget the economy of the US feed the growth of China the time when the US bankrupt that's the time where you should be worry about your growth.



This has to be one of the most ridiculous remarks I've ever heard。

China's will be by far the largest consumer and market in the world in a few years。

The net of export - import accounts for about 1% of China's GDP，meaning China is a large exporter but an equally large importer。

Who will be feeding whom？Now that's an interesting question。

PS We don't give a sh1t if we all go down the drain。If the world economy ever recovers，China will be the first to benifit from the recovery the way it did last time。

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## Beast

Frogman said:


> L-15 is already being looked at by the EAF to replace aging advanced trainers such as the Alpha Jet and L-59 Super Albatross. The Mig-29/35 and (if possible) F-16 will replace Mig-21 fighters.


 Egypt F-16 has no ARAAM capabilities and much advance capabilities will be null by Israel lobby. 

L-15 despite being an advance trainer possess great aerodynamic capabilities and can be convert to fighter jet without much problem once radar is installed. SD-10 BVRAAM will be sold together as package.

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## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> Exactly, meaning if we don't want Chinese products made by Chinese workers, other countries can replace China with cheap goods made for American consumers like perhaps Vietnam or Bangladesh.
> 
> U.S. economy is based on majority on services not manufacturing, you can look it up.



It's easier than done. Other countries do not has great infrastructure like China. They lack high speed train to rapidly transport good. Power shut down is common in many other developing countries. Non do they possesss efficient port to rapidly handle container ship. Western countries for at least another decade will still look towards big China as world factory.

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## yusheng

汉魂雄风 HD 珠展系列高清之三（11月11日）_视频在线观看 - 56.com


汉魂雄风 HD 珠展系列高清之四（11月12日）_视频在线观看 - 56.com

high quality video of zhuhai air show 11.11

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## abaseen99



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## abaseen99

this is ur personal opinion but the ground realty is ddifferent lca is in piplin but jf 17 is now in use and also enterned in third phase

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## Beast

he-man said:


> Lca has entered the production.........its not a world beater but at present configuration has better electronics than jf-17 with quadruple fly by wire vs single axis fly by wire in jf-17 and having a better radar.
> 
> It has also got ability to use different missiles like derby,python etc.
> 
> It also will debut with air refuelling in mk1 only,jf-17 still lacks it.
> 
> So please don't post nonsense here.


Current LCA MK1 is overweight and not able to perform the require angle of attack. Which is why IAF wants to quickly switch to MK2 of using F414 engine. And we do not know when MK2 Will be ready.

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## he-man

Beast said:


> Current LCA MK1 is overweight and not able to perform the require angle of attack. Which is why IAF wants to quickly switch to MK2 of using F414 engine. And we do not know when MK2 Will be ready.



It has demonstrated 24 degree aoa.
Its good enough and next phase is upto 26 degrees.

Its overweight yes but not incapable with having same t/w as jf-17 which is not good in the first place.

However it still has much better electronics,a refuelling pod and much more choice in missiles than jf-17 will ever have.

Not to say jf-17 is bad,,,it has dsi so potentially increasing its stealth a bit,,its operational right now.


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## he-man

abaseen99 said:


> this is ur personal opinion but the ground realty is ddifferent lca is in piplin but jf 17 is now in use and also enterned in third phase



Sir,,what i said is verifiable.U can challenge me if i am wrong.

Thank you


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## abaseen99



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## abaseen99

The 400 kg CM-400AKG (derivative from YJ-12) Wrecker is termed by CASIC as hypersonic since it can reach speed greater than Mach 5.5 at its terminal stage, and its guidance system includes GPS, onboard radar, and an image recognition system that can identify a specific target, it can also be pre-programed to destroy the ground targets with precision by uploading the digital imagery of the target or it can be re-targeted using its active radar seeker.

Originally developed as an air-to-surface missile (ASM) against fixed and slow moving target, an anti-shipping missile (AShM) is also developed for Pakistan, which claims it as "an aircraft carrier killer". The two different CM-400AKG models can be easily distinguished by the difference between the arrangement of forward control surfaces of the two model: the AShM version has four short and smaller forward control surfaces, while the ASM version has four much larger forward control surfaces.Pakistan is the first export customer of CM-400AKG, deploying it on CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder.
AVIC gives ranges of 100-240km for the two versions with their 150kg blast warhead or 200kg penetration warhead

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## Sasquatch

The HJ-12 appearance has been one of my favorite reveals at Zhuhai along with the Y-20, and the FC-31. 2016 show will be better, the appearance of the H-XX(H-20) is what I'm eager to see, won't be at Zhuhai though.

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## cnleio

Hu Songshan said:


> The HJ-12 appearance has been one of my favorite reveals at Zhuhai along with the Y-20, and the FC-31. 2016 show will be better, the appearance of the H-XX(H-20) is what I'm eager to see, won't be at Zhuhai though.


It will be HJ-12 for PLA and Poly's TQ-01 ATM for export ...


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## KingMamba

cnleio said:


> It will be HJ-12 for PLA and Poly's TQ-01 ATM for export ...



Hey man this might be a dumb question but I am a bit confused, is the FC31 a different bird than the J31? I ask because a lot of different articles online are giving different info, some are making it seem like they are actually the same exact bird just an alternate name but then others are saying it is a different platform based on the J31. So which is it exactly?


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## cnleio

KingMamba said:


> Hey man this might be a dumb question but I am a bit confused, is the FC31 a different bird than the J31? I ask because a lot of different articles online are giving different info, some are making it seem like they are actually the same exact bird just an alternate name but then others are saying it is a different platform based on the J31. So which is it exactly?


J-31 named by military fans not official name, in 2014 ZhuHai Air Show China AVIC gave the formal official name: FC-31.

They r the same stealth fighter prototype N.o30001, just different name by non-official & official.

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## KingMamba

cnleio said:


> J-31 named by military fans not official name, in 2014 ZhuHai Air Show China AVIC gave the formal official name: FC-31.
> 
> They r the same stealth fighter prototype N.o30001, just different name by non-official & official.



Oh alright thanks for clearing that up.

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> It will be HJ-12 for PLA and Poly's TQ-01 ATM for export ...


HJ-12 is a game changer. In world market, there is only 2 sources you can get. Israel spike and US Javelin. Even the Russian struggling many years still cannot produce a FnF ATGM.

With HJ-12, those who are not friendly to western has finally have a new source to get FnF ATGM.

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## Bussard Ramjet

Has HJ 12 been deployed? Is there any video? 

When are these systems being deployed? Especially the UAVs?


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## cnleio

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Has HJ 12 been deployed? Is there any video?
> 
> When are these systems being deployed? Especially the UAVs?


"HJ-XXX" and "HQ-XXX" missile they r only PLA's formal name, when u see these names, it means missiles had served in PLA Army now.

The " Attack-I " attack UAV (here in former post) is PLA serving UAV.

My answer is they all equiped by PLA Army, mature tech weapons in China military force.


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## The SC

cnleio said:


> J-31 named by military fans not official name, in 2014 ZhuHai Air Show China AVIC gave the formal official name: FC-31.
> 
> They r the same stealth fighter prototype N.o30001, just different name by non-official & official.



*China's J-31 Stealth Fighter: Then and Now*

By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer
Posted 11.13.2014 at 9:30 am
 





J-31's Debut
The J-31 "31001" technology demonstrator flies past in a public demonstration at the Zhuhai 2014 Airshow. In addition to generating export interest, Shenyang Aircraft Corporation is looking to get J-31 business from the PLAAF.
Hunter Chen
Much has been made of China’s J-31 stealth fighter making an appearance at the 2014 Zhuhai Airshow. (Too much in fact; for example_ Foreign Policy_ magazine tried to tie the news to Obama’s visit this week, despite the fact that the airshow has been going on since 1996 and the plane flying since 2012.) But what can we learn from its appearance?





J-31 Lands
The J-31 "31001" makes another approach at Zhuhai. The J-31 is still a tech demonstrator at this point, and lacks extras like electro-optical and missile launch warning sensors, as well as likely using a preexisting radar (J-10) at this point.
Flyer via Weibo
Made by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC), it is highly likely that the J-31 will be China's version of the Joint Strike Fighter; its development is expected to spiral into both PLAAF and PLANAF variants. However, the J-31’s primary mission at Zhuhai has been to hunt for export customers. Beyond Chinese sales, likely customers for the J-31 include nations that have operated earlier generation Chinese export fighters like the F-7 and JF-17 (such as Pakistan and Egypt), as well as those looking for less expensive or non-U.S. alternatives.





J-31
The J-31 differs from the F-35 in that it has two engines, which in turn reduces its area ruling, making for more efficient supersonic flight, including future supercruise once the J-31 obtains more powerful engines.
Hunter Chen
Currently, "31001" is a technology demonstrator for SAC's stealth fighter technology. Hence it uses preexisting systems, like the Russian RD-93 engines found on the FC-1 fighter, as well as having an older two piece canopy over the cockpit. "31001" was stated at the Zhuhai 2012 airshow to have a combat weight of 17.6 tons; like the transition from the X-35 to the F-35, production variants of the J-31 are likely to be heavier than the demonstrator.





FC-31
This up to date scale model of the FC-31 (the J-31's export designation) at Zhuhai 2014 shows several important upgrades from "31001", including the installation of a Electro Optical Targeting Sensor (EOTS) pod under the nose (shiny gold fairing).
Blitzo at Sinodefense Forum




Stealthines
The updated FC-31 design has several radar cross section reduction measures, such as clipped wing edges, and revised vertical stabilizers, to reduce reflected radar waves.
Andreas Rupprecht via China Defense Forum
While "31001" flew crowd pleasing maneuvers at Zhuhai, a new and updated scale model of the J-31, or FC-31 in its export designation, on display shows changes that would come to any likely final plane. The new model has redesigned wings, clipped at the corners to enhance stealth, and all new vertical stabilizers, which have been enhanced for stealth. The new model also has an Infrared Search and Track sensor installed on the underside of its nose, to enable the J-31 to track the heat signatures of enemy aircraft. It also has redesigned, stealth optimized engine nozzles, which suggest that a Chinese 10- to 11-ton thrust engine will ultimately replace the Russian RD-93. Notably, such future engines could allow the J-31 to supercruise, a feature that the F-35 does not have.





New Engines
The stealthy new engine nozzles on the FC-31 model indicate that SAC looks to replace the current RD-93 turbofans. The yet unnamed turbofan engines will each generate about 10-11 tons of afterburning thrust, which could enable the J-31 to supercruise.
mil.ifeng.com




Next Gen Display
This flight simulator/cockpit avionics display shows state of the art pilot/cockpit interface technology, including a holographic Heads Up Display (HUD), a built in helmet wide display, and multi-functional display screens (not shown) that would show and fuse sensor data, managed communications, as well as firing and controlling weapons.
china.com
The J-31 is clearly intended to be a true “fifth-generation” fighter, not only in stealth but also in sensor fusion and flight avionics. To its advantage, the J-31 does not have the difficult challenge of producing a design that allows both traditional flight and a STVOL variant like the F-35B. However, the great challenges in producing a multi-role fifth-generation fighter and high-performance engines means that SAC has its work cut out if the J-31 is going to enter service in 2022, a decade after its first flight.

China's J-31 Stealth Fighter: Then and Now | Popular Science

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## rcrmj

abaseen99 said:


> View attachment 151236
> View attachment 151236


this is madness! any target 200KM away from this beast can take the hit? JF-17 is a small plane, yet in this pic it says: whos da daddy`??

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## Deino

abaseen99 said:


> The 400 kg CM-400AKG (derivative from YJ-12) ...



Why do You think the CM-400AKG is a derivate of the YJ-12 ??? As far as I know it is most likely based on or has evolved from the earlier SY-400 SRBM. The YJ-12 in contrast is a completely different "beast" much larger an heavier to be carried on the JF-17.

Deino

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## cnleio

China missiles on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## Speeder 2

Oldman1 said:


> Exactly, meaning if we don't want Chinese products made by Chinese workers, other countries can replace China with cheap goods made for American consumers like perhaps Vietnam or Bangladesh.
> 
> U.S. economy is based on majority on services not manufacturing, you can look it up.



Just love the sheer stupidity whenever I see it.  The cow has already gone home for years and you still come up with this crap as some sort of noverty...



Oldman1 said:


> U.S. economy is based on majority on services not manufacturing, you can look it up.



Exactly, that's why you've fucked up, kiddo.  You can easily and rightly replace some individual low value-added products, but you can't replace the whole industrial value chain which China dominates.

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## cnleio

The SC said:


> *China's J-31 Stealth Fighter: Then and Now*
> 
> By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer
> Posted 11.13.2014 at 9:30 am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-31's Debut
> The J-31 "31001" technology demonstrator flies past in a public demonstration at the Zhuhai 2014 Airshow. In addition to generating export interest, Shenyang Aircraft Corporation is looking to get J-31 business from the PLAAF.
> Hunter Chen
> Much has been made of China’s J-31 stealth fighter making an appearance at the 2014 Zhuhai Airshow. (Too much in fact; for example_ Foreign Policy_ magazine tried to tie the news to Obama’s visit this week, despite the fact that the airshow has been going on since 1996 and the plane flying since 2012.) But what can we learn from its appearance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-31 Lands
> The J-31 "31001" makes another approach at Zhuhai. The J-31 is still a tech demonstrator at this point, and lacks extras like electro-optical and missile launch warning sensors, as well as likely using a preexisting radar (J-10) at this point.
> Flyer via Weibo
> Made by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC), it is highly likely that the J-31 will be China's version of the Joint Strike Fighter; its development is expected to spiral into both PLAAF and PLANAF variants. However, the J-31’s primary mission at Zhuhai has been to hunt for export customers. Beyond Chinese sales, likely customers for the J-31 include nations that have operated earlier generation Chinese export fighters like the F-7 and JF-17 (such as Pakistan and Egypt), as well as those looking for less expensive or non-U.S. alternatives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-31
> The J-31 differs from the F-35 in that it has two engines, which in turn reduces its area ruling, making for more efficient supersonic flight, including future supercruise once the J-31 obtains more powerful engines.
> Hunter Chen
> Currently, "31001" is a technology demonstrator for SAC's stealth fighter technology. Hence it uses preexisting systems, like the Russian RD-93 engines found on the FC-1 fighter, as well as having an older two piece canopy over the cockpit. "31001" was stated at the Zhuhai 2012 airshow to have a combat weight of 17.6 tons; like the transition from the X-35 to the F-35, production variants of the J-31 are likely to be heavier than the demonstrator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FC-31
> This up to date scale model of the FC-31 (the J-31's export designation) at Zhuhai 2014 shows several important upgrades from "31001", including the installation of a Electro Optical Targeting Sensor (EOTS) pod under the nose (shiny gold fairing).
> Blitzo at Sinodefense Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stealthines
> The updated FC-31 design has several radar cross section reduction measures, such as clipped wing edges, and revised vertical stabilizers, to reduce reflected radar waves.
> Andreas Rupprecht via China Defense Forum
> While "31001" flew crowd pleasing maneuvers at Zhuhai, a new and updated scale model of the J-31, or FC-31 in its export designation, on display shows changes that would come to any likely final plane. The new model has redesigned wings, clipped at the corners to enhance stealth, and all new vertical stabilizers, which have been enhanced for stealth. The new model also has an Infrared Search and Track sensor installed on the underside of its nose, to enable the J-31 to track the heat signatures of enemy aircraft. It also has redesigned, stealth optimized engine nozzles, which suggest that a Chinese 10- to 11-ton thrust engine will ultimately replace the Russian RD-93. Notably, such future engines could allow the J-31 to supercruise, a feature that the F-35 does not have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Engines
> The stealthy new engine nozzles on the FC-31 model indicate that SAC looks to replace the current RD-93 turbofans. The yet unnamed turbofan engines will each generate about 10-11 tons of afterburning thrust, which could enable the J-31 to supercruise.
> mil.ifeng.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next Gen Display
> This flight simulator/cockpit avionics display shows state of the art pilot/cockpit interface technology, including a holographic Heads Up Display (HUD), a built in helmet wide display, and multi-functional display screens (not shown) that would show and fuse sensor data, managed communications, as well as firing and controlling weapons.
> china.com
> The J-31 is clearly intended to be a true “fifth-generation” fighter, not only in stealth but also in sensor fusion and flight avionics. To its advantage, the J-31 does not have the difficult challenge of producing a design that allows both traditional flight and a STVOL variant like the F-35B. However, the great challenges in producing a multi-role fifth-generation fighter and high-performance engines means that SAC has its work cut out if the J-31 is going to enter service in 2022, a decade after its first flight.
> 
> China's J-31 Stealth Fighter: Then and Now | Popular Science


It's the PLA trandition only mass production version fighter can named "J-XXX" and equiped by PLAAF, those prototype only "XXX project" inside AVIC R&D team. So a stealth fighter prototype named by "J-31" it's only a non-official name gave by Chinese military fans since 2012 year J-31 N.o31001 photos on internet ... not a AVIC official name. In China we didn't read or see any J-31 name on China official media or newspaper, it was only called "some secret next-gen fighter".






But this is 1st official formal name appear on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show: FC-31

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## The SC

And that name FC-31 is for this one not for the prototype


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## Stealth



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## cnleio

11.14 1st day of Public Days, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show 
_(11.11~11.13 Professional Days for journalists / VIPs / foreign customers, 11.14~11.16 Public Days for normal visiter)_

A 1.3billion Chinese market here

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## Speeder 2

For this airshow, the single most important thing should be potent domestic engine/s.

Engines!

Engines!

Engines!

Show the engines!  No engines, no show. 3rd rate engines = 3rd rate show. just like that.

Engines are *the single most important measure *of how good you are in aviation, and how powerful you are in industry in general.

Comparatively the rest are trivial.


Imagine this scenario:

The whole airshow with 1 showroom only, showcasing 3 giant world-class domestic engines.

Then, and only then, the rest of the world will shut up in owe. Before that happens, nothing!

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## cnleio

Speeder 2 said:


> For this airshow, the single most important thing should be potent domestic engine/s.
> 
> Engines!
> 
> Engines!
> 
> Engines!
> 
> Show the engines!  No engines, no show. 3rd rate engines = 3rd rate show. just like that.
> 
> Engines are *the single most important measure *of how good you are in aviation, and how powerful you are in industry in general.
> 
> Comparatively the rest are trivial.
> 
> 
> Imagine this scenario:
> 
> The whole airshow with 1 showroom only, showcasing 3 giant world-class domestic engines.
> 
> Then, and only then, the rest of the world will shut up in owe. Before that happens, nothing!


Not a big deal, the only problem for China is engine's high-temperature material need time to research ... AVIC will solve the last problem in future.


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## cnleio

FC-31 & cockpit

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## cnleio

They are ... ?!

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## cranwerkhan

he-man said:


> Lca has entered the production.........its not a world beater but at present configuration has better electronics than jf-17 with quadruple fly by wire vs single axis fly by wire in jf-17 and having a better radar.
> 
> It has also got ability to use different missiles like derby,python etc.
> 
> It also will debut with air refuelling in mk1 only,jf-17 still lacks it.
> 
> So please don't post nonsense here.



Delusional lca fanboy .. A typical indian why dnt u die of supa pawa cancer ? Seeing ur post since many days u have no knowledge of of anything just delusion of being supa pawa in everything.. Nonsense

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## he-man

Prove me wrong on any point genius.Learn something while on pdf instead of acting tough.



cranwerkhan said:


> Delusional lca fanboy .. A typical indian why dnt u die of supa pawa cancer ? Seeing ur post since many days u have no knowledge of of anything just delusion of being supa pawa in everything.. Nonsense


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## Ultima Thule

cnleio said:


> FC-31 & cockpit
> 
> View attachment 151410
> 
> View attachment 151409
> 
> View attachment 151410


awsome beauty, future of PAF

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## aliaselin

A Middle East country has ordered more than 100 ST-1

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## Zarvan

aliaselin said:


> A Middle East country has ordered more than 100 ST-1
> View attachment 151503


Which one @Mosamania any idea and according to @DESERT FIGHTER We may also get them with TOT


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## Mugwop

Russian Su-35S fighter at China air show proves Asia-Pacific priority — corporation chief




BEIJING, November 10. /TASS/. The fact that Russia's multi-purpose Sukhoi Su-35S fighter will be displayed at China's Zhuhai international air show illustrates the high priority Russian aircraft producers place on markets in China and the Asia-Pacific region, United Aircraft Building Corporation president Mikhail Pogosyan said in an exclusive interview with TASS.
“We find markets in the Asia-Pacific region and China important to promote what we make," he said. “The Su-35 display is to demonstrate this warplane's capabilities,” he said.
“Not everything can be shown during the flight program to be presented at the show,” he said. But “it is possible to demonstrate characteristics of super-manoeuvrability alongside performance of radar, optical and electronic warfare systems and modern airborne weapons that make Su-35 the best fourth-generation warplane”, he said.
“All our contracting parties with successful experience in operating our aircraft have expressed interest in this warplane,” the executive added.

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## Sanchez

j20blackdragon said:


> This should give you an _idea_ of how the DF-21D _might_ work. The DF-21D will obviously be bigger and more sophisticated than this. Once again, China doesn't showcase her best weapons at Zhuhai Air Show.
> 
> View attachment 151005
> 
> View attachment 151009



There have been three missiles with these wave-riding or gliding flight trejectory as shown in Zhuhai: B611MR，M20，WS-64（guided rocket). M20 is said to have a terminal speed of 6Mach. Can we call these short ranged hypersonic missiles? It's obviously difficult to intercept the missiles with known air defence systems.


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## kuge

cnleio said:


> Not a big deal, the only problem for China is engine's high-temperature material need time to research ... AVIC will solve the last problem in future.


专家：中美发动机差距不到10年 太行大量装3款军机-空军版-超级大本营军事论坛-最具影响力军事论坛 -
2014-11-14 来源：羊城晚报 作者： 责任编辑：高辰




太行发动机真行了？站在太行涡扇10旁的老董很肯定地点头：行了！
is taihang ok?: yes, it is ready!

太行涡扇10发动机是中国航空研究院606所的产品，老董是606所的参展人员，这几天他天天站在展馆，给感兴趣的专业和非专业人士答疑解惑。老董说，他从南京航空航天大学一毕业就参与了涡扇10的研制。

涡扇10从1978年预研，1987年立项。老董说，它现在已经大批量地装上了歼10B、歼11B和运20大型运输机。
mass production engines installed on j10b,j11b & y20

网上一些文章透露，太行发动机的外涵盒子，用上了复合材料，既大减了重量，又提高了强度，也提高了耐高温能力。老董先生带记者到太行发动机的侧面，指 着发动机外表那片黑色说：“这是我们所独有的特色，以前这里是用钢材，也有用钛合金，现在用复合材料就轻多了，还耐高温，高强度。”

老董说太行涡扇10发动机的推重比在8左右（发动机的推重比是指发动机的推力和发动机重量（重力）的比值），一般的三代机的发动机，都在8左右。他还透露，现在几个研究所正在联合研制的四代战斗机的发动机，在网上称为涡扇15，那款发动机具备隐身性能。
twr ~8. ws15 in development phase has "stealthy features"

歼10B作为一个轻型战斗机能够载重近8吨的武器，机动性能非常优秀，这得益于它已经有了一颗强大的中国“心脏”。

对话太行涡扇10发动机科研人员

中美发动机 差距不到10年
china & usa engine gap is <10yrs.

记者：12000KGF-14000KGF有什么含义？

老董：这是说明太行发展了很多种机型，我们最好的发动机已经达到14000公斤的推力。（苏35的发动机推力为14500公斤）
taihang new derivatives comes close to 14000kgf ( su35's 14500kgf)

记者：达到这样的推力，就是说太行发动机与苏35的发动机推力大致相当了？

老董：是的，而且我们还在向前发展，这几年一直在完善和发展。这是最新的涡扇10发动机，已经定型了。

记者：它已经量产了吗？

老董：已经大批量装上歼10B、歼11B和运20。

记者：为什么歼10，比如八一飞行表演队的歼10用的还是俄罗斯的发动机呢？

老董：中国购买了那么多俄罗斯的发动机，还有已经装上的俄罗斯发动机还没到寿命，当然还要用呵。

记者：涡扇10在发动机寿命和稳定性方面与俄罗斯、美国三代机上的发动机比怎么样？

老董：这方面我们差一些，也可以说有较大的发展空间，比如说有些材料在科研单位的数据是不错的，但在实际应用时，还是不尽如人意，这就是研究航空发动机的难处，一个发动机要在相当长的时间内逐步完善它的稳定性，就算是美国也要十来年，而且还不算他们的预研阶段。

记者：网上有人质疑中国发动机不行，说太行发动机只有300小时的寿命，这是否属实？

老董：这个错大了，我们太行的寿命是1500小时，按照设计要求，300小时是定期维护。
life span is 1500hrs, 300hrs of scheduled maintenance

记者：我们的发动机与美国的差距有没有10年？

老董：不到10年。（林丹）

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## Beast

kuge said:


> 专家：中美发动机差距不到10年 太行大量装3款军机-空军版-超级大本营军事论坛-最具影响力军事论坛 -
> 2014-11-14 来源：羊城晚报 作者： 责任编辑：高辰
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 太行发动机真行了？站在太行涡扇10旁的老董很肯定地点头：行了！
> is taihang ok?: yes, it is ready!
> 
> 太行涡扇10发动机是中国航空研究院606所的产品，老董是606所的参展人员，这几天他天天站在展馆，给感兴趣的专业和非专业人士答疑解惑。老董说，他从南京航空航天大学一毕业就参与了涡扇10的研制。
> 
> 涡扇10从1978年预研，1987年立项。老董说，它现在已经大批量地装上了歼10B、歼11B和运20大型运输机。
> mass production engines installed on j10b,j11b & y20
> 
> 网上一些文章透露，太行发动机的外涵盒子，用上了复合材料，既大减了重量，又提高了强度，也提高了耐高温能力。老董先生带记者到太行发动机的侧面，指 着发动机外表那片黑色说：“这是我们所独有的特色，以前这里是用钢材，也有用钛合金，现在用复合材料就轻多了，还耐高温，高强度。”
> 
> 老董说太行涡扇10发动机的推重比在8左右（发动机的推重比是指发动机的推力和发动机重量（重力）的比值），一般的三代机的发动机，都在8左右。他还透露，现在几个研究所正在联合研制的四代战斗机的发动机，在网上称为涡扇15，那款发动机具备隐身性能。
> twr ~8. ws15 in development phase has "stealthy features"
> 
> 歼10B作为一个轻型战斗机能够载重近8吨的武器，机动性能非常优秀，这得益于它已经有了一颗强大的中国“心脏”。
> 
> 对话太行涡扇10发动机科研人员
> 
> 中美发动机 差距不到10年
> china & usa engine gap is <10yrs.
> 
> 记者：12000KGF-14000KGF有什么含义？
> 
> 老董：这是说明太行发展了很多种机型，我们最好的发动机已经达到14000公斤的推力。（苏35的发动机推力为14500公斤）
> taihang new derivatives comes close to 14000kgf ( su35's 14500kgf)
> 
> 记者：达到这样的推力，就是说太行发动机与苏35的发动机推力大致相当了？
> 
> 老董：是的，而且我们还在向前发展，这几年一直在完善和发展。这是最新的涡扇10发动机，已经定型了。
> 
> 记者：它已经量产了吗？
> 
> 老董：已经大批量装上歼10B、歼11B和运20。
> 
> 记者：为什么歼10，比如八一飞行表演队的歼10用的还是俄罗斯的发动机呢？
> 
> 老董：中国购买了那么多俄罗斯的发动机，还有已经装上的俄罗斯发动机还没到寿命，当然还要用呵。
> 
> 记者：涡扇10在发动机寿命和稳定性方面与俄罗斯、美国三代机上的发动机比怎么样？
> 
> 老董：这方面我们差一些，也可以说有较大的发展空间，比如说有些材料在科研单位的数据是不错的，但在实际应用时，还是不尽如人意，这就是研究航空发动机的难处，一个发动机要在相当长的时间内逐步完善它的稳定性，就算是美国也要十来年，而且还不算他们的预研阶段。
> 
> 记者：网上有人质疑中国发动机不行，说太行发动机只有300小时的寿命，这是否属实？
> 
> 老董：这个错大了，我们太行的寿命是1500小时，按照设计要求，300小时是定期维护。
> life span is 1500hrs, 300hrs of scheduled maintenance
> 
> 记者：我们的发动机与美国的差距有没有10年？
> 
> 老董：不到10年。（林丹）



Summary

-new variant of WS-10A engine reaches 14000kg thrust and has certify
-WS-10A has started mass equip of domestic aircraft like J-11B, J-10B and Y-20 transport aircraft.
-WS-10A still not fully equipped all domestic aircraft is becos many AL-31 engine lifespan has not used up. 
-lifespan of WS-10A is 1500hrs and schedule maintenance every 300hrs
-China aeronautic engine technology gap with US is less than 10 years.

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## kuge

if new taihang had 14000kgf the probabilty to buy su35 is very slim....

i dont think the engine gap with usa is less than 10yrs....should be more than that!


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## SQ8

aliaselin said:


> F-80 medium range air-to-air missile
> 
> View attachment 151144



Rather unique solution to solve gimbal tracking limitations.


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## Keel

Beast said:


> Summary
> 
> -new variant of WS-10A engine reaches 14000kg thrust and has certify
> -WS-10A has started mass equip of domestic aircraft like J-11B, J-10B and Y-20 transport aircraft.
> -WS-10A still not fully equipped all domestic aircraft is becos many AL-31 engine lifespan has not used up.
> -lifespan of WS-10A is 1500hrs and schedule maintenance every 300hrs
> -China aeronautic engine technology gap with US is less than 10 years.



AL31据说首翻在600小时左右，总寿命1500小时；而美国同级别的F100-PW系列和F110-GE系列首翻都在1000小时以上，总寿命更是接近4000小时。后来的F119和最近的F135、F136更不用说了

First overhaul of AL-31 = 600 hrs; total service life = 1500 hrs
US's F100-PW and F110-GE first overhaul = 1000 hrs, life = 4000 hours 

为什么俄罗斯的航空发动机寿命比不上美国的_百度知道

There is still a huge gap between our engines and those of USA

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## abaseen99

An unidentified Middle Eastern country is in “advanced” talks to make the first foreign purchase of a fighter jet jointly developed by Pakistan and China.

The joint sales team from the Pakistan Air Force and China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporationalso known as CATIC, are in advanced talks with 10 other countries to sell the JF-17 Thunder, said PAF Air Commodore Khalid Mahmood, who heads sales and marketing for the fighter jet.

“We are in advanced negotiations with a Middle Eastern country, but the political situation over there has delayed the deal,” said Mahmood in an interview at the Zhuhai Air Show yesterday, declining to give more details. “But we still expect them to be our first foreign client.”

The JF-17 Thunder fighter jet is among several aircraft China is seeking to export, after designating its domestic aerospace sector as a key national strategic industry. The twin-engine jet was jointly designed and manufactured by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex and Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, a subsidiary of state-ownedAviation Industry Corp of China, also known as AVIC.

The partners are in “advanced talks” with clients in Africa, Asia, theMiddle East and South America for jet sales, Mahmood said. He declined to identify any of them. Prospective orders will be for the third block of 50 planes, with the Pakistan Air Force having ordered the first two blocks of 50.

*Dual-Seat Version*
Mahmood said there are plans in place for a dual-seater version of the JF-17 Thunder after feedback from potential clients. The third-generation fighter jet, also known as FC-1 Dragon by the Chinese, can be used for aerial reconnaissance and has air-to-air and air-to-surface combat capabilities, according to its product website.

Flightglobal, an aviation-related website, previously reported that the partnership was close to making its first foreign sale.

A mock up of the single-seat, single-engine JF-17 is on display at the Zhuhai Air Show that started Nov. 11 in the province of Guangdong, along with several others produced by AVIC -- including the J-31, one of China’s fifth-generation stealth fighters.

The J-31 gave its first public demonstration at China’s largest air show on Tuesday. Manufactured by a Shenyang AVIC subsidiary, the fighter is a test of the country’s ability to deliver cutting-edge defense technology.

Still largely-shrouded in secrecy, the production of the fighter could add heft to China’s sea and air expansion in the region and its push-back against decades of U.S. economic and military dominance.

To contact Bloomberg News staff for this story: Clement Tan in Hong Kong at ctan297@bloomberg.net

To contact the editors responsible for this story: Anand Krishnamoorthy at anandk@bloomberg.net; Rosalind Mathieson at rmathieson3@bloomberg.net Andrew Davis, Greg AhlstrandChina-Pakistan Fighter Jet Nears First Foreign Deal - Bloomberg

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## Beast

Keel said:


> AL31据说首翻在600小时左右，总寿命1500小时；而美国同级别的F100-PW系列和F110-GE系列首翻都在1000小时以上，总寿命更是接近4000小时。后来的F119和最近的F135、F136更不用说了
> 
> First overhaul of AL-31 = 600 hrs; total service life = 1500 hrs
> US's F100-PW and F110-GE first overhaul = 1000 hrs, life = 4000 hours
> 
> 为什么俄罗斯的航空发动机寿命比不上美国的_百度知道
> 
> There is still a huge gap between our engines and those of USA



Maybe next generation of engine spec like WS-15 will be better? Like 3000hrs lifespan and long interval of maintenance time?

Which is why the AVIC president put a 10years time gap between China and US.

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## Keel

Beast said:


> Maybe next generation of engine spec like WS-15 will be better? Like 3000hrs lifespan and long interval of maintenance time?



We have come a long way though to have come this far!  
USA is also doing their own R n D in engines technologies too
So the gap is fairly large and I dont know if they said "less than 10 years" is way too optimistic

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## Sanchez

kuge said:


> 专家：中美发动机差距不到10年 太行大量装3款军机-空军版-超级大本营军事论坛-最具影响力军事论坛 -
> 2014-11-14 来源：羊城晚报 作者： 责任编辑：高辰
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 太行发动机真行了？站在太行涡扇10旁的老董很肯定地点头：行了！
> is taihang ok?: yes, it is ready!
> 
> 太行涡扇10发动机是中国航空研究院606所的产品，老董是606所的参展人员，这几天他天天站在展馆，给感兴趣的专业和非专业人士答疑解惑。老董说，他从南京航空航天大学一毕业就参与了涡扇10的研制。
> 
> 涡扇10从1978年预研，1987年立项。老董说，它现在已经大批量地装上了歼10B、歼11B和运20大型运输机。
> mass production engines installed on j10b,j11b & y20
> 
> 网上一些文章透露，太行发动机的外涵盒子，用上了复合材料，既大减了重量，又提高了强度，也提高了耐高温能力。老董先生带记者到太行发动机的侧面，指 着发动机外表那片黑色说：“这是我们所独有的特色，以前这里是用钢材，也有用钛合金，现在用复合材料就轻多了，还耐高温，高强度。”
> 
> 老董说太行涡扇10发动机的推重比在8左右（发动机的推重比是指发动机的推力和发动机重量（重力）的比值），一般的三代机的发动机，都在8左右。他还透露，现在几个研究所正在联合研制的四代战斗机的发动机，在网上称为涡扇15，那款发动机具备隐身性能。
> twr ~8. ws15 in development phase has "stealthy features"
> 
> 歼10B作为一个轻型战斗机能够载重近8吨的武器，机动性能非常优秀，这得益于它已经有了一颗强大的中国“心脏”。
> 
> 对话太行涡扇10发动机科研人员
> 
> 中美发动机 差距不到10年
> china & usa engine gap is <10yrs.
> 
> 记者：12000KGF-14000KGF有什么含义？
> 
> 老董：这是说明太行发展了很多种机型，我们最好的发动机已经达到14000公斤的推力。（苏35的发动机推力为14500公斤）
> taihang new derivatives comes close to 14000kgf ( su35's 14500kgf)
> 
> 记者：达到这样的推力，就是说太行发动机与苏35的发动机推力大致相当了？
> 
> 老董：是的，而且我们还在向前发展，这几年一直在完善和发展。这是最新的涡扇10发动机，已经定型了。
> 
> 记者：它已经量产了吗？
> 
> 老董：已经大批量装上歼10B、歼11B和运20。
> 
> 记者：为什么歼10，比如八一飞行表演队的歼10用的还是俄罗斯的发动机呢？
> 
> 老董：中国购买了那么多俄罗斯的发动机，还有已经装上的俄罗斯发动机还没到寿命，当然还要用呵。
> 
> 记者：涡扇10在发动机寿命和稳定性方面与俄罗斯、美国三代机上的发动机比怎么样？
> 
> 老董：这方面我们差一些，也可以说有较大的发展空间，比如说有些材料在科研单位的数据是不错的，但在实际应用时，还是不尽如人意，这就是研究航空发动机的难处，一个发动机要在相当长的时间内逐步完善它的稳定性，就算是美国也要十来年，而且还不算他们的预研阶段。
> 
> 记者：网上有人质疑中国发动机不行，说太行发动机只有300小时的寿命，这是否属实？
> 
> 老董：这个错大了，我们太行的寿命是1500小时，按照设计要求，300小时是定期维护。
> life span is 1500hrs, 300hrs of scheduled maintenance
> 
> 记者：我们的发动机与美国的差距有没有10年？
> 
> 老董：不到10年。（林丹）



10 year gap on engine tech is too optimistic. US has had F-22 for more than 20 years, and we are still working on a prototype of WS-15. We are at least 25+ years behind the US on aeroengines...

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## aqdus

kindly tell me is their any thing from Pakistan showing interest in FC-31 or any other plans.............................


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## Sulman Badshah

aqdus said:


> kindly tell me is their any thing from Pakistan showing interest in FC-31 or any other plans.............................


Janes reported today that Paksitan is in talks to buy 30-40 J 31 ...


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## Mitro

These Chinese people will be so proud of their country achievement .i envy them 


cnleio said:


> 11.14 1st day of Public Days, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show
> _(11.11~11.13 Professional Days for journalists / VIPs / foreign customers, 11.14~11.16 Public Days for normal visiter)_
> 
> A 1.3billion Chinese market here
> View attachment 151370
> 
> View attachment 151371
> 
> View attachment 151373
> 
> View attachment 151375
> 
> View attachment 151376
> 
> View attachment 151377
> 
> View attachment 151378
> 
> View attachment 151379
> 
> View attachment 151380
> 
> View attachment 151381

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## Basel

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because we are looking for an excuse to help Russia's military industry complex by buying some Su-35, but in the reality, we don't need Su-35 from a technological perspective.



If that is true, can china lease or resell those Su-35s to Pakistan?


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## cnleio

Su-35 & FC-31

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

China C4KISR system on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show, 21 century Modern War Platform 
_China C4KISR = Command + Control + Communication + Computer + Attack + Intelligence + Surveillance + Reconnoitre _

PLA weapons joint C4KISR system & data links 


> 11月13日，中国电子科技集团公司展示了C4KISR(指挥、控制、通信、计算机、攻击、情报、监视、侦察)系统。

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## cnleio

China C4KISR system on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show, 21 century Modern War Platform 
_China C4KISR = Command + Control + Communication + Computer + Attack + Intelligence + Surveillance + Reconnoitre _

PLA weapons joint C4KISR system & data links 


> 11月13日，中国电子科技集团公司展示了C4KISR(指挥、控制、通信、计算机、攻击、情报、监视、侦察)系统。

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## cnleio

"Smart - III" unmanned helicopter on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show



> 11月13日，中国电子科技集团公司展台展出了“敏捷-III”型无人直升机系统。

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## cnleio

Ultra-light 155mm howitzer detail pics, China version M777 howitzer 

Specially present for mountain troop

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## cnleio

China HULC (Human Universal Load Carrier) more pics ... _100kg load = 20kg for user, current 2 hours electricity _

CCTV official video link:
[CCTV]航展全接触 探秘机械“外骨骼”：仿人体关节 助力行走

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## aliaselin

Oscar said:


> Rather unique solution to solve gimbal tracking limitations.


Can you make it clear?


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## 帅的一匹

Speeder 2 said:


> For this airshow, the single most important thing should be potent domestic engine/s.
> 
> Engines!
> 
> Engines!
> 
> Engines!
> 
> Show the engines!  No engines, no show. 3rd rate engines = 3rd rate show. just like that.
> 
> Engines are *the single most important measure *of how good you are in aviation, and how powerful you are in industry in general.
> 
> Comparatively the rest are trivial.
> 
> 
> Imagine this scenario:
> 
> The whole airshow with 1 showroom only, showcasing 3 giant world-class domestic engines.
> 
> Then, and only then, the rest of the world will shut up in owe. Before that happens, nothing!


涡扇10研发人员：中美发动机差距不到10年|中国|发动机|珠海航展_新浪军事
The engine problem had been solved, WS10 is matured.

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## 帅的一匹

Taihang engine really capable? Standing next to Taihang turbojet engine WS10 Mr. Dong said that WS10 engine is now fully operational and matured.

WS10 engine is Chinese Aviation Research Institute 606's product, Mr.Dong is exhibitor of China aviation research 606 institute, these days every day he stood in the hall, elaborate WS10 engine story to professional and non professional vistors. Mr.Dong said, he graduated from Nanjing University majoring in Aeronautics & Astronautics and started to participate in the development of WS10 engine since his graduation.

WS10 pre-study started from year 1978, project set up in year 1987. Mr.Dong said, WS10 had been massively mounted on the J-10 B andJ11B fighters.

Online some articles reveal, Taihang engine outer culvert box, using the composite, which greatly reduce the weight, also improves the strength and the ability of resistance to high temperature. Mr. Dong with a reporter standing besides Taihang engine, pointing to the black pitch appearance of the engine that said: ‘this is our unique characteristics,previously used here is steel or titanium alloy. Now with this newly developed composite material, which is much lighter/higher temperature resistance/higher strength’.

Mr.Dong said WS10 thrust to weight ratio at about 8(the ratio of thrust to weight refers to the Trust power per unitary weight). The fourth generation engines, are all around 8 TW ratio. He also revealed, several China aviation research insitutes now are jointly developing the 5th generation fighter turbojet engine with TW ratio 10. The Chinese military fans called it the WS15 峨眉 ,which fugures stealthy layout.

The J-10B as a lightweight fighter capable of carrying nearly 8 tons of weapons and excellent mobility performance, all credit to having a strong China 'heart' of WS10 series.

Following is the Dialogue details about WS10 indigenous engine with Mr.Dong:

*Sino US engine gap less than 10 years*

Reporter: 120kn-140kn what is the meaning?

Mr. Dong: Taihang developed many kinds of DERIVATIVES, t*he newest WS10 series engine has reached 140KN thrust*. (Su 35 engine thrust of 145 KN)

Reporter: Achieve this thrust, that is to say the Taihang engine and Su 35's 117s engine thrust being roughly equivalent?

Mr. Dong: Yes, and we are still moving forward, the past few years has been to improve and develop. This is the new WS 10 engine, which have shaped up.

Reporter: It has started MASS production?

Mr. Dong: Mass service on the J-10B, J 11B.

Reporter: why the J-10, such as PLAAF eight one aerobatic team still with Russian engines?

Mr.Dong: China had bought so many Russian engine, We still utilize those engine until the life span expired.

Reporter: Can you please shed some light on the life sapn of WS10 compared with Russian and United States fouth generation engine?

Mr. Dong: We are slightly inferior in that part,while we have a larger room for progress. Such as some of the material shows good performance data in scientific research test, but in practical application, is still not satisfactory. It is the difficult part of aero engine development, It takes decades to improve its stability and even so with USA, not including the conceptual phase of the engine.

Reporter: Online question said that WS10 ENGINE has less than 300 hours life hours, whether this is true?

Mr.Dong: This is wrong, WS10's life* is over 1500 hours*, completely in accordance with the design requirements. 300 hours is the span between each regualr maintenance .

Reporter: Our engine gap with the US is there for 10 years?

Mr.Dong: Less than 10 years.
.

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## 帅的一匹

I've tried my best to translate the article, hope you all will get something in it.

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## 帅的一匹

@Horus , @Oscar


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## 帅的一匹

Now Indian members don't waste your precious time questioning the relaibility of WS10 engine, it had been officially explained.

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## 帅的一匹

@Beast @cirr @Chinese-Dragon @cnleio @zhang5521


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## 帅的一匹

From the article you could judge that the engine installed on J20 prototype '2012' is WS10 engine with 140KN thrust power. We finally pull it off, my salute to all Chinese aviation engineers.

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## terranMarine



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## Derolo

What is real dry thrust of WS10?

Wet/afterburner thrust is a good for stats not good for real operations.


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## 帅的一匹

Derolo said:


> What is real dry thrust of WS10?
> 
> Wet/afterburner thrust is a good for stats not good for real operations.


Don't be picky, you will get the detail later.

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## qwerrty

no new helicopter projects or concepts like in last airshow


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## 帅的一匹



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## 帅的一匹

qwerrty said:


> no new helicopter projects or concepts like in last airshow


You will find surprise of heli development in next Zhuhai show.


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## 帅的一匹

Derolo said:


> What is real dry thrust of WS10?
> 
> Wet/afterburner thrust is a good for stats not good for real operations.


sourgrape at the most

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## ChineseTiger1986

I have moved the pic of the two WS-20 engines on an Y-20 to the Y-20 thread.

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## cnleio

wanglaokan said:


> View attachment 152025


That's WS-10A ? looks like AL-31F ...


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## cnleio

wanglaokan said:


> View attachment 152025


That's WS-10A ? looks like AL-31F ...


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## Rafi

I really wanted to see the Z20 - another game changer for the PLA and hopefully us.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> That's WS-10A ? looks like AL-31F ...



The early J-10B units still have the AL-31F engine, because we won't waste those AL-31F engines that we have purchased from Russia years ago.

However, the prototype 1035 has proved that the WS-10A/B engine works perfectly fine on the J-10B.

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## 帅的一匹

The fighters production speed of China can't meet the rampant expansion of PLAAF, so we need more WS10 and AL31,even more SU35.

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## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The early J-10B units still have the AL-31F engine, because we won't waste those AL-31F engines that we have purchased from Russia years ago.
> 
> However, the prototype 1035 has proved that the WS-10A/B engine works perfectly fine on the J-10B.



I shall say leave those engine for the old J-10A. The J-10B needs Taihang.

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## 帅的一匹

Beast said:


> I shall say leave those engine for the old J-10A. The J-10B needs Taihang.


Our airforce can't wait anymore, and the navy aviation is starving as well. The jets they need is mammoth in number. The annual production numbers of fighers in CHina is even surpassing the whole fleet of medium size country airforce.

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## 帅的一匹

We have thousands J7 and other old inventory to replace, Rome is not built in one day. We need to hurry up.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> I shall say leave those engine for the old J-10A. The J-10B needs Taihang.



The production of the Taihang engine needs to satisfy the demand of the heavy aircraft fighters first.

And the J-15 right now uses the AL-31F because the Russian engine is more suitable for the ski-jump.

BTW, with the recent leaked pics of the testing steam catapult, the later J-15B will use the Taihang engine because it works better with the catapult system.

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## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The production of the Taihang engine needs to satisfy the demand of the heavy aircraft fighters first.
> 
> And the J-15 right now uses the AL-31F because the Russian engine is more suitable for the ski-jump.
> 
> BTW, with the recent leaked pics of the testing steam catapult, the later J-15B will use the Taihang engine because it works better with the catapult system.


 I got a feeling all J-15 will enter service with Taihang engine.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> I got a feeling all J-15 will enter service with Taihang engine.



The Taihang version of J-15 will enter in service with the Type 002 supercarrier.

BTW, let's how well the later modified Taihang version could work with the ski-jump carrier.


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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The early J-10B units still have the AL-31F engine, because we won't waste those AL-31F engines that we have purchased from Russia years ago.
> 
> However, the prototype 1035 has proved that the WS-10A/B engine works perfectly fine on the J-10B.


Well ... if it's truth as the news said, i wish to see more doemstic WS-10A jet engines on these mass production 3.5gen J-10B fighters ... now China can produce 30x J-10B each year, so only WS-10A widely installed on J-10B fighters can prove AVIC success.

Im waiting for J-10Bs + WS-10A

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## 帅的一匹

PLAAF will have 1800+ 4th/4.5th/5th gen fighters before year 2020, that's really power there.

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## 帅的一匹

No one can rival us in Asia except for USA.

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## cnleio

wanglaokan said:


> PLAAF will have 1800+ 4th/4.5th/5th gen fighters before year 2020, that's really power there.


I don't think so, bro ! As far as i knew, current PLAAF has 250+ J-10A, 200+ J-11A/B, 90x Su30mkk/mk2 ... 200x JH-7/A (a fighter/bomber) ... so now near 600x 4th fighters (unincluding JH-7/A here).

Until to 2020 ... if J-20 join (at most 100x, maybe less), J-10B join (at most 150x), J-16 join (near 100x), J-15 join (60x ?), total PLAAF 4th/4.5th/5th will be 1,000x ~ 1,100x fighters ... this's just a optimistic estimation ! coz CAC need produce J-10B and J-20 together, SAC also need produce J-15, J-16, J-11B together maybe include FC-31 ... ur capacity of fighter production is limited.

Don't forget, u also need trainning more fighter pilots ! but many Su27sk/ubk, early J-11 will retired from PLAAF ... so i estimate near 1,000x .

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## kuge

wanglaokan said:


> The fighters production speed of China can't meet the rampant expansion of PLAAF, so we need more WS10 and AL31,even more SU35.


if su35's engine is the only factor considered & the new taihang variant produces 14000kgf there is little prospect to buy su35.
pls dont tell it is for politacal or economic reasons...


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## 帅的一匹

kuge said:


> if su35's engine is the only factor considered & the new taihang variant produces 14000kgf there is little prospect to buy su35.
> pls dont tell it is for politacal or economic reasons...


For TVC


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## Bussard Ramjet

wanglaokan said:


> No one can rival us in Asia except for USA.


And are you happy with that? you certainly seem to be boasting like this. Not a good attitude for people who want to be a superpower. 

For that your attitude must be, that nothing short of being the best compared to the rest of the world combined will work. 

Also, yes no one will individually meet China, but people can do that collectively. Russia, Japan, India, Vietnam and Phillippines combined can better China.


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## 帅的一匹

Bussard Ramjet said:


> And are you happy with that? you certainly seem to be boasting like this. Not a good attitude for people who want to be a superpower.
> 
> For that your attitude must be, that nothing short of being the best compared to the rest of the world combined will work.
> 
> Also, yes no one will individually meet China, but people can do that collectively. Russia, Japan, India, Vietnam and Phillippines combined can better China.


you can extricate Russia from your list. Vietnam? maybe. Philippine, just ignore it cause it has zero military ability.

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## Hyperion

Exactly. China's ONLY limiter is metallurgy/process engineering. My personal estimate is that 5 years more and they are at par with the US. Give China 10 more years, they've it in them to outdo anyone, that includes the US.



Oscar said:


> Not exactly. They have had their templates but design was NEVER an issue. The Chinese can design a variable cycle engine today.. what they cannot do is come up with the materials to build it. Today's Chinese engines all suffer from that single limiter. To solve that the Chinese are taking the two pronged approach of try to replicate along with directed purchasing of information. Their idea is that if they can learn how to develop the alloys used on the PW-100 reliably.. they can take it further from there.

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## Hyperion

I disagree mate. In mass production of reliable jet engines, it's not 'skillful' labor that matters, it's the R&D in metallurgy and process engineering that matters the most. Once you have that nailed, you've an excellent pool of trained engineers, then you can actually train goats and robots to do the rest of the work.

China is almost there. It's just 5 more years before you're in an elite club of 2. Yes, only you and the US of A for certain engine types. No one, I mean no one has the resources to catch you guys once you break that threshold. 



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You need more skillful workers to pop up the production of the jet engines.
> 
> During the early induction of WS-10, we were facing this problem; some mass produced engines didn't match the quality of the testing prototype. Because we didn't have many skillful workers in this domain.
> 
> When an unexperienced worker made a mistake of 1mm of discrepancy, then the engine will lose at least 10% of performance, and something worse could even happen as well.
> 
> I say now we have by far more skillful jet engine assembly workers than a decade ago, but still not enough to match our goal for the air force modernization, that's why we are still using some Russian AL-31F engines for the substitution.

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## nomi007

wanglaokan said:


> Now Indian members don't waste your precious time questioning the relaibility of WS10 engine, it had been officially explained.


ws series engines are far better than even russian engines in many terms
indian poor engine kaveri still in testing phase and they even can't repair AL-31 engines and rd series engines 
result every year their front line jets faces engine failure issue
*PLZ DON'T TAKE THEM SERIOUS ACTUALLY ZHUHAI REALLY HURT THEM BADLY*

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## Hyperion

Indians can't produce 90% of the subcomponents of an assembly of ANY engine, that includes the so called 'cryogenic' engine. No one on this green earth transfers 100% of tech and knowhow as 'ToT'. Only nations who go through the 'whole' cycle of R&D, either through pure research plus full scale industrial espionage, ever, understand the full technology. China is one of those nations that can, and does.



cnleio said:


> Well i just know Indian can't produce single crystal blades yet ... that let's see how many years Indian domestic blades out. It's the heart of the heart inside jet engine.
> 
> As far as i knew, 2017~2018 PLAAF wll receive J-20 mass production version and domestic WS-15 also will out before 2020. Just when we talk here, J-10B had formally joint PLAAF ... J-15 started mass production. Although China jet engine develop slowly, but our fighter update fast.
> 
> This China 1st AESA 3-gen fighter will build 200+ as same as J-10A.
> View attachment 150614

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## nomi007

*zhuhai 2016*

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## kuge

Bussard Ramjet said:


> I am new here. Can you do it for me?


hi you could simply copy & paste...good luck

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## Zarvan

cnleio said:


> Photos of Public Day, 2014 ZhuHai Air Show
> 
> View attachment 151759
> View attachment 151760
> View attachment 151761
> View attachment 151762
> View attachment 151763
> View attachment 151764
> View attachment 151765
> View attachment 151766
> View attachment 151767
> View attachment 151768


Guys there are some new Missiles being shown along with JF-17 and it seems one new is at least Chinese Cruise Missile


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## Speeder 2

wanglaokan said:


> The fighters production speed of China can't meet the rampant expansion of PLAAF, so we need more WS10 and AL31,even more SU35.



one thing i don't get it: 

why china doesn't expand its engine production lines, given china has huge amount of human resources (engineer pool) and money?

1 theme park less = 1 more engine production line = perhaps 10% increase in PLAAF capabilities.

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## aliaselin

Some guys from CD forum has asked the deputy chief designer of Taihang themselves, and the editors is not very professional so made some mistake about the report:


> 不用扯了，什么小编啊，伦家董工说的是十四吨行型号的寿命达到了1500小时，，不达到十四顿的投产型号自己对比414最近型号两种模式，三百小时是维护时间不是大修，，太行引入了西方的视情维护概念，，，涡轮单晶盘四千多小时，，，什么小编听一般，在自己脑洞一开乱补，，，在现场的可以去再证，，，对了打的费和午餐饮料费发票谁给报销，，对了说好的平秃呢，，臭鸡蛋都唔熟了



Lifespan of 1500h is a new 14T version of WS-10A, while the old one has a lifespan of 4000h

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## Beast

Speeder 2 said:


> one thing i don't get it:
> 
> why china doesn't expand its engine production lines, given china has huge amount of human resources (engineer pool) and money?
> 
> 1 theme park less = 1 more engine production line = perhaps 10% increase in PLAAF capabilities.



Do you want to end up like C-17 production line? It just close down this year. Reason? Over production and not feasible to sustain the huge factory when order dried up. Sure you can produce a massive factory produced 500 engines a year but what happen after 3-4 years? Close down since you fulfil all orders and all goes downhill.

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## j20blackdragon

CS/BBM2 100 kg Chinese SDB II. 










I personally consider this the MOST IMPORTANT weapon I've seen at this show so far. The JH-7 fleet alone can dismantle an entire small country with this.

For those that don't know, SDB can be quad-mounted onto each hardpoint like this.

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## Gasoline

Great work *CHINA *! 

That was amazing .

Now, I see who will think to play with CN  

In Saudi Arabia, we're waiting for new deals with CN  .

Maybe some DFs,Jet fighters or anything

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## Speeder 2

Beast said:


> Do you want to end up like C-17 production line? It just close down this year. Reason? Over production and not feasible to sustain the huge factory when order dried up. Sure you can produce a massive factory produced 500 engines a year but what happen after 3-4 years? Close down since you fulfil all orders and all goes downhill.



for export, after it. top engine production line workers/engineers are actually national treasures.

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## cnleio

@Nihonjin1051

More Top Attack ... China 2nd Top Attack ATM: Poly's TS-01 more pics on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show 

TS-01 seems smaller & lighter than HJ-12 Top Attack ATM

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## cnleio

Poly's AFP-LCDI rocket launcher on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show, soft-launch can use in narrow room

China version Gustav-M2 rocket launcher 




















Gustav-M2 84mm rocket launcher

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## cnleio

China Poly's armored vehicles on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

Poly's 07P 8x8 105mm assault gun














Poly's 12P MRAP














Poly's 13P 6x6 armored vehicle











QF-18 MANPADS

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## cnleio

China VN11 IFV pics on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Finally a Good Day, the most beautiful pic of FC-31 on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show 

_Yes, if future FC-31 with WS-13 sell 70million USD per piece, is it worth to buy ??? _

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## j20blackdragon

Chinese M4. Guaranteed to be better than the INSAS.

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## cnleio

OKay, guys ... i read news, that China will buy 48x Su35 from Russia. If truth, soon official media will release the deal in ZhuHai.

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## Syed Hussain

cnleio said:


> PLAAF J-10A/S fighter arrived at ZhuHai Airport
> 
> View attachment 146808
> 
> View attachment 146809
> 
> View attachment 146812
> 
> View attachment 146813
> 
> View attachment 146814


We were expecting B variant of J-10 to perform this year...sad...!


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## cnleio

Syed Hussain said:


> We were expecting B variant of J-10 to perform this year...sad...!


2016 ZhuHai Air Show, J-10B will come coz this year J-10B fighters mass produce for PLAAF. After 2014 u can see many J-10B serving in PLAAF.

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## terranMarine

cnleio said:


> OKay, guys ... i read news, that China will buy 48x Su35 from Russia. If truth, soon official media will release the deal in ZhuHai.



Total cost if the news is true?


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## GeHAC

cnleio said:


> 2016 ZhuHai Air Show, J-10B will come coz this year J-10B fighters mass produce for PLAAF. After 2014 u can see many J-10B serving in PLAAF.


Well,the progress may will be delayed now


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## GeHAC

Airboune 122mm gun for paratroopers

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## cnleio

AH... why u look so beautiful ? China HJ-12 Top Attack ATM & CCD/IR guided warheads detail pics

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## qwerrty

..

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## SQ8

aliaselin said:


> Airboune 122mm gun for paratroopers



If it is a stable and accurate platform.. this is a great piece for warfare in the Aksai Chin area.

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## nomi007

*this airshow is a good trailer for anti Chinese countries who bark every day against china *
*after watch these Chinese development now they act like a mad person*
*well done china you made it*

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## zaid butt

nomi007 said:


> *this airshow is a good trailer for anti Chinese countries who bark every day against china *
> *after watch these Chinese development now they act like a mad person*
> *well done china you made it*



are you talking about india and america


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## Gasoline

j20blackdragon said:


> Chinese M4. Guaranteed to be better than the INSAS.
> View attachment 152510



You forgot this  :
Type81-1

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## cnleio

2014 ZhuHai Air Show end, 2016 ZhuHai Air Show will come (J-20, FC-31, J-10B etc) 

_Im sure China will develop more stronger. _THANK YOU FOR WATCH, SEE U NEXT SHOW. 















...
2016 See u there, 不见不散 !

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## cnleio

Poly's 12P MRAP on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Some China RCWS pics on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Some China RCWS pics on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## siegecrossbow

Can't wait until the J-20 and J-10B attend in 2016! By then we may even have a small batch of J-20s in service.

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## qwerrty

..

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## qwerrty

small medium thrust turbofan for trainer and business jet

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## nomi007

The United Arab Emirates Air Force “Fursan Al Emarat” Aerobatics Team performance at Zhuhai Airshow 2014

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## cnleio

siegecrossbow said:


> Can't wait until the J-20 and J-10B attend in 2016! By then we may even have a small batch of J-20s in service.


LOL ... there will be more surprise ! The SAC and 601 R&D the FC-31 stealth fighter to foreign market, the CAC and 611 also has a single engine stealth fighter project for foreign customers ... single engine J-20 export version ... LOL !!!

J-20 only for PLAAF, both SAC FC-31 and CAC single engine stealth fighter for international weapon market. Next years China will have 3x stealth fighters, two will be HOT for selling.

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## JSCh

*Zhuhai airshow concludes with new record - CCTV News - CCTV.com English*
11-16-2014 17:47 BJT

After a six-day pageant of parading the world’s most advanced aviation technology, the Zhuhai airshow successfully concludes today with multiple records.

China also took the opportunity to showcase its J-31 fourth generation stealth fighter, quicker and more precise than its predecessors. The BAYI aerobatics team from China’s air force brought their stunning performances 8 times.

The aerobatics team from the United Arab Emirates, known as the Knights, performed their signature move, transforming the skies into their national flag.Russia’s Air Force Warrior team were equal to the task, completing perfect somersaults at the command of their Su-27 heavy fighters.

The airshow also included an exhibition, which saw the *signing of contracts worth a whopping 100 billion yuan, or 16 billion US dollars. A record in the show’s ten-year history.*

*



*
*



*
*



*
*



*
*



*

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## qwerrty

sweet!

-
*China Wraps up Air Show with Record Deals *

Share
China wrapped up its air show in the southern port city of Zhuhai, Guangdong Province on Sunday with* over 300 deals worth a record $23.4 billion signed*, according to the show organizer.

The 10th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition, which started on Tuesday, witnessed sales of 227 aircraft of different types.

More than 700 aviation and aerospace manufacturers from 41 countries and regions attended the six-day air show. Meanwhile, the show attracted a record audience of nearly 410,000 people, the organizer said.

More than 130 various aircraft were displayed at the major air show in China, and stunt flying was performed by female fighter pilots from the China Air Force with J-10 fighters, according to the organizer.

The next air show will be held November 1-6, 2016 in Zhuhai, it said.

(Xinhua News Agency November 16, 2014)

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## Deino

Any "hard" facts about these deals ? What type of aircraft were sold to whom ??

To admit I was very much surprised about the missing of the JL-10/L-15 trainer ... IMO a type with some serious sales prospect given the success of the KL-8/K-8.

Deino


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## Beast

Deino said:


> Any "hard" facts about these deals ? What type of aircraft were sold to whom ??
> 
> To admit I was very much surprised about the missing of the JL-10/L-15 trainer ... IMO a type with some serious sales prospect given the success of the KL-8/K-8.
> 
> Deino


 I think L-15 sales are so good that they don't even bother advertise it and countries will still queuing for it. It has already clinch Zambian and Venezuela deals. Heard the Egypt and Ukraine are also interested.

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## 帅的一匹

Gasoline said:


> Great work *CHINA *!
> 
> That was amazing .
> 
> Now, I see who will think to play with CN
> 
> In Saudi Arabia, we're waiting for new deals with CN  .
> 
> Maybe some DFs,Jet fighters or anything


Saudi are our brothers, our closest ally in the middle east. if my memory serve me right, Saudi Arab donated 100 millions USD to wengchuan earthquake in year 2008, the only country that we sold DF3 ballastic missle too. I hope more military cooperation between China/Saudi/Pakistan in the future in JF17 project.

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## Danish saleem

pakeye said:


> *please read last answer of Col Amir*
> *Question : Do you think the Pakistan Air Force in the future the possibility of cooperation in use "Fierce Dragon" fighter, the introduction of the F-31 it?*
> *Ans: Colonel Aamir: I think it is very possible that Pakistan aircraft research and development, there are many places to learn from China.*



we will never research , we always want RD with the Help of USA or China.

We will never hear the phrase Pakistani technology, we will always keep using US or Chinese Technology!


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## Ultima Thule

cnleio said:


> LOL ... there will be more surprise ! The SAC and 601 R&D the FC-31 stealth fighter to foreign market, the CAC and 611 also has a single engine stealth fighter project for foreign customers ... single engine J-20 export version ... LOL !!!
> 
> J-20 only for PLAAF, both SAC FC-31 and CAC single engine stealth fighter for international weapon market. Next years China will have 3x stealth fighters, two will be HOT for selling.


with due respect, these r just rumor, if these news are true give me a reliable links.


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## Mitro

Indian reaction will be like "All is well" like ostrich .
But in reality their hearts are in their mouth and running towards US with every penny they save to buy system to counter China and will go bankrupt.
They are in no way can match this dragon and are in wrong side leaking white A$$.

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## ACE OF THE AIR




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## onebyone

india cry 

india very very super superpower 55555555555


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## nomi007

when will The JL-600 (Jiaolong-600 / Dragon 600) Amphibious Aircraft ready
looks really interested

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## j20blackdragon

FT Series Precision Guided Bombs. Think of this as an entire family of Chinese JDAM, JDAM-ER, SDB, and more.






FT-7 130 kg SDB.









How many can the JH-7A carry? You do the math.

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## The SC

*Promotions video of Zhuhai Air Show 2014*

*



*

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## zaid butt

The SC said:


> *Promotions video of Zhuhai Air Show 2014*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


good video


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## AsianLion

Massive, some credit goes to world famous Defence.pk; Pak-China team for publicity and marketing too 

*China Closes Record $23.4 Billion in Deals at Airshow*

Dan Weisman | Nov 16, 2014 11:11 AM EST

More than 700 aviation and aerospace manufacturers from 41 countries were on exhibit during the weeklong air show, which attracted a record audience of almost 410,000 people.

Formally called the China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition, the state-sanctioned exposition displays the latest in China's aerospace and defense industry production. The show hits the exhibitor's hall road every two years at Zhuhai, Guangdong, just outside Macau.

There were more than 130 different aircraft on display, including the Halberd supersonic target drone, Queen Bee antitank rocket system, and the Sky Dragon 12 surface-to-air missile system. There was also stunt flying performed by female fighter pilots from the China Air Force.

*This year, China overtook France as the number four world arms dealer, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute*. The Chinese industry features 10 state-run large-scale defense companies, although officials are encouraging smaller, private manufacturers to join the production field. More competition should bring more innovation, according to Chinese thinking.

*Over the last five years, China's main arms buyers were Pakistan, *Myanmar and Bangladesh. China is a top seller of military hardware to sub-Saharan Africa, a smaller market that is growing rapidly.

China's share of worldwide sales increased from 2 percent to 6 percent over since 2009 as total world sales increased 14 percent.

Arms sales from China had been relatively low due to the unwillingness of the Chinese military to market advanced weaponry. Chinese companies mainly were competing with Russia for low-grade arms sales.

But all that has changed now. Improved quality arms along with greater willingness to sell state-of-the-art weaponry has caused sales to boom. Airshow China 2014 represented an opportunity to display and sell some of that updated equipment.

Several deals were finalized at the show. The Harbin Aircraft Industry Group, an Aviation Industry Corporation of China subsidiary, or AVIC, said it was selling 20 Y-12 utility aircraft to Coptervision, a Las Vegas-based company specializing in tourism and transporting cargo.

Comac, the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, said it sold two aircraft types still in development. It sold 30 C919 jetliners to China Merchants Bank leasing division. It also sold three ARJ21 regional jets to Republic of Congo.

Read more:China Closes Record $23.4 Billion in Deals at Airshow : World : Chinatopix

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## bolo

Speeder 2 said:


> one thing i don't get it:
> 
> why china doesn't expand its engine production lines, given china has huge amount of human resources (engineer pool) and money?
> 
> 1 theme park less = 1 more engine production line = perhaps 10% increase in PLAAF capabilities.


pro western liberal retards in China love theme parks. They hate science and R&D.

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## ChineseTiger1986

bolo said:


> pro western liberal retards in China love theme parks. They hate science and R&D.



Those libtards in China are mostly lawyers and those who study the liberal arts, they hate the science and R&D because they suck at the math and physics by themselves.

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## bolo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Those libtards in China are mostly lawyers and those who study the liberal arts, they hate the science and R&D because they suck at the math and physics by themselves.


talkers non doers. I can't stand these lawyers/con men.

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## war is peace

Lawers are better than science cus of stability and justice lol


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## Mitro

For me Star of the show 
1)Y-20
2)HJ-12
3)CX-1

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## cnleio

FC-31 take off

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## cnleio

"Sharp Claw-I" 120kg unmanned ground vehicle detail pics

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## cnleio

PLA "Attack-I" attack UAV detail pics

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## nomi007



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## nomi007



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## nomi007



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## cnleio

China CX-1 supersonice missile detail pics

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## cnleio

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 153947
> View attachment 153948
> View attachment 153949


Pakistan Airforce officers ?

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## cnleio

China export eversion ESSM: FM-3000 anti-aircraft missile detail pics

_It's good for Navy warship with 4x FM-3000 missiles in one VLS cell _


> 中国通过引进torM1系统研制出国产型号HQ17。从舵系统与俄罗斯torM1的对比来看，FM3000采用了与TORM1的9M331
> 高度相似的燃气驱动舵机系统和燃气偏转系统。，从弹体直径来看。应该在200到300毫米之间。极有可能采用了9M311的
> 相同直径：230mm。长度在发动机段明显加长。FM3000很可能就是在HQ17的基础上改进而来，通过加长弹体增加射程，
> 加上雷达主动导引头来提高多目标能力，整个系统可以看作通过采用成熟的货架产品搭建出一个新的型号，既减少了开发
> 风险，又通过现成技术的延续性降低了成本。
> 从FM3000的出现我们看到一些信息：中国在小直径的雷达导引头小型化已经突破。这个导引头很可能就是在现有某个在研
> 型号派生出来的出口版。这个型号公开，说明有更好的同类型号赢得军方的青睐。

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> China export eversion ESSM: FM-3000 anti-aircraft missile detail pics
> 
> _It's good for Navy warship with 4x FM-3000 missiles in one VLS cell _
> 
> 
> View attachment 153955
> View attachment 153957
> View attachment 153958



This missile will be good replacement for export naval VLS air defense of Chinese warship.

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## cnleio

Beast said:


> This mission will be good replacement for export naval VLS air defense of Chinese warship.


Sure, export warships with VLS & ESSM ... it will be HOT for selling with "Made in China" price.


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## cnleio

Many China UAVs on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Many China UAVs on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

China FC-31 stealth weapon-bay

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## Major Shaitan Singh

*Chinese F-22 *

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## qwerrty

yes, it does look more f-22 than f-35

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## cnleio

China PLZ-52 155mm SPH detail pics

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## nomi007

cnleio said:


> Pakistan Airforce officers ?


these are pakistani officers

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## cirr

cnleio said:


> Many China UAVs on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show
> 
> View attachment 154002
> 
> View attachment 154003
> 
> View attachment 154004
> 
> View attachment 154005
> 
> View attachment 154006
> 
> View attachment 154007
> 
> View attachment 154008
> 
> View attachment 154009
> 
> View attachment 154011
> 
> View attachment 154012



“Models” of real interest are safely stashed away in CAC’s exhibit room。


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## monitor

China is catching west too fast i think days are not far when Chinese made weapons will match or pass the west .they have both talent and resources to do so .

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## Syed Hussain

cnleio said:


> China Y-20 waiting for WS-20 engines ... when WS-20 done it will look like this
> 
> WS-20 testing
> View attachment 147730
> 
> View attachment 147729
> 
> View attachment 147728
> 
> 
> 
> The final version Y-20
> View attachment 147727


What about *SF-A Engine? based on WS-15's core...!*


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## Syed Hussain

j20blackdragon said:


> And this is one of the main reasons why I find all this Su-35 nonsense so funny. Why in the world would China buy the Su-35 when the J-11D (with AESA) is under development?


With no offense(for We consider China as an all weather ally) but Russia's aircraft technology is still at least 10 years ahead of that of China. Mocking SU-35 is not a good idea at all. Just a "not good looking" air frame quality is not a judging point. It's superior than any other fighter jet currently in service with any country except F-22.


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## Beast

Syed Hussain said:


> With no offense(for We consider China as an all weather ally) but Russia's aircraft technology is still at least 10 years ahead of that of China. Mocking SU-35 is not a good idea at all. Just a "not good looking" air frame quality is not a judging point. It's superior than any other fighter jet currently in service with any country except F-22.



No, Russia never 10 years ahead of China in aircraft. China makes better radar ,better aircraft design and airframe. Russian makes better engine in turboprop. In fact ,we are level. The only one ahead of China is US.

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## j20blackdragon

Syed Hussain said:


> With no offense(for We consider China as an all weather ally) but Russia's aircraft technology is still at least 10 years ahead of that of China. Mocking SU-35 is not a good idea at all. Just a "not good looking" air frame quality is not a judging point. It's superior than any other fighter jet currently in service with any country except F-22.




Give me a break. The J-20 has already made the transition from the prototype to the pre-production stage.




While the PAK FA is on fire.





The J-10B with AESA is already in production and is about to enter service.





Can you show me a single in production Russian aircraft with AESA? Don't say MiG-35 because that's not in production.

Lastly, name a single Russia UAV comparable to either one of these.









In reality, Russia is only ahead in the areas developed by the Soviet Union. Russia itself has done very little over the past 24 years.

As for the Su-35 deal, I'll believe it when I see it. Show me a picture of an actual Su-35 being delivered to the PLAAF and I'll believe it, but not before then.

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## SQ8

j20blackdragon said:


> Can you show me a single in production Russian aircraft with AESA? Don't say MiG-35 because that's not in production.
> 
> As for the Su-35 deal, I'll believe it when I see it. Show me a picture of an actual Su-35 being delivered to the PLAAF and I'll believe it, but not before then.



The Russians have not ordered any AESA radar for their fighters yet even though they have production models lined up. Although the Indians have expressed interest. The Chinese AESA technology may be compared to Russian AESA simply because a lot of it is based off it. But that does not mean that they are copies, a lot of Chinese technology is based off a hybrid of "copy", innovate and adapt. So for e.g. the SD-10 may have used the seeker from the R-77 for a start.. today's SD-10 seeker is much more sophisticated and nothing like the seeker from the latest R-77. 

However, in terms of fighter AESA performance.. what the PAF has gauged is that Chinese AESA is still struggling with the level of sophistication(in algorithms) found in western systems. Which is why if and when the JF-17 gets a AESA radar... it could very well be from SELEX rather than Chinese. But, considering that an AESA on the JF-17 is at least 5 years away.. it is possible that China would have caught up by then with its rapid advancements.

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## j20blackdragon

Taihang Engine 14,000 kgf

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## DrSomnath999

guys 
any news / pics of ramjet powered BVRAAM in that show

any latest pic of SD 10b / upgraded bvaam of CAF

*CHEERS*


----------



## Donatello

Oscar said:


> The Russians have not ordered any AESA radar for their fighters yet even though they have production models lined up. Although the Indians have expressed interest. The Chinese AESA technology may be compared to Russian AESA simply because a lot of it is based off it. But that does not mean that they are copies, a lot of Chinese technology is based off a hybrid of "copy", innovate and adapt. So for e.g. the SD-10 may have used the seeker from the R-77 for a start.. today's SD-10 seeker is much more sophisticated and nothing like the seeker from the latest R-77.
> 
> However, in terms of fighter AESA performance.. what the PAF has gauged is that Chinese AESA is still struggling with the level of sophistication(in algorithms) found in western systems. Which is why if and when the JF-17 gets a AESA radar... it could very well be from SELEX rather than Chinese. But, considering that an AESA on the JF-17 is at least 5 years away.. it is possible that China would have caught up by then with its rapid advancements.


Wasn't SD10 seeker based on both AIM120 and R77?


----------



## Penguin

j20blackdragon said:


> Lastly, name a single Russia UAV comparable to either one of these.
> View attachment 154296


Mikoyan Skat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ?

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## 帅的一匹

China and Russia are ally, so we can't not judge the deal only from military perspective.


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## Beast

Donatello said:


> Wasn't SD10 seeker based on both AIM120 and R77?


SD-10 uses a world first dual passive seeker. The AMR-1 is just supposed to be a trade show for export and never meant to equipped PLAAF.


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## Beast

Oscar said:


> However, in terms of fighter AESA performance.. what the PAF has gauged is that Chinese AESA is still struggling with the level of sophistication(in algorithms) found in western systems. Which is why if and when the JF-17 gets a AESA radar... it could very well be from SELEX rather than Chinese. But, considering that an AESA on the JF-17 is at least 5 years away.. it is possible that China would have caught up by then with its rapid advancements.


You cant compare what's offer to PAF compare to what PLAAF going to have. For example, does PAF offer J-20? No , they are offer the export J-31.

And regarding radar, I am 100% sure. PAF will get Chinese AESA. Have you all eat enough humble regarding RC-400 Thales radar when compete with KJL-7 radar? Trying to find another system to compete is just trying to bring down prices with the seller. End of the day, it will still be a Chinese radar.

Chinese operation AESA AWACS fleet is enough to prove our avionics superiority compare to Russia.

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## j20blackdragon

Penguin said:


> Mikoyan Skat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ?



Is that a mock-up or an actual flying prototype?

By the way, this is already in service with the PLAAF.

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## siegecrossbow

j20blackdragon said:


> Is that a mock-up or an actual flying prototype?
> 
> By the way, this is already in service with the PLAAF.
> 
> View attachment 154450



Not to mention exported to an Arab country.


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## Beast

Penguin said:


> Mikoyan Skat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ?


Typical indian style. Using a protoype and compare to a combat ready operational product and claim equality.

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## rcrmj

Oscar said:


> The Russians have not ordered any AESA radar for their fighters yet even though they have production models lined up. Although the Indians have expressed interest. The Chinese AESA technology may be compared to Russian AESA simply because a lot of it is based off it. But that does not mean that they are copies, a lot of Chinese technology is based off a hybrid of "copy", innovate and adapt. So for e.g. the SD-10 may have used the seeker from the R-77 for a start.. today's SD-10 seeker is much more sophisticated and nothing like the seeker from the latest R-77.
> 
> However, in terms of fighter AESA performance.. what the PAF has gauged is that Chinese AESA is still struggling with the level of sophistication(in algorithms) found in western systems. Which is why if and when the JF-17 gets a AESA radar... it could very well be from SELEX rather than Chinese. But, considering that an AESA on the JF-17 is at least 5 years away.. it is possible that China would have caught up by then with its rapid advancements.


please, dont make jokes, Chinese AESA has nothing to do with Russia, as they cant even manufacture 2nd gen AESA T/R modular, they been stucked with PESA
and Chinese AESA is already at 3rd gen stage, and there is no plan to mount AESA on JF-17 as far as I know, its not because our AESA is not 'mature' than the western system (which is quite opposite), it is because of RD-93 couldnt power a AESA with decent amount of T/R modular


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## Deino

Beast said:


> Typical indian style. Using a protoype and compare to a combat ready operational product and claim equality.



To make it even worse, the Skat is not even a prototype but only a mock-up.

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## SQ8

rcrmj said:


> please, dont make jokes, Chinese AESA has nothing to do with Russia, as they cant even manufacture 2nd gen AESA T/R modular, they been stucked with PESA
> and Chinese AESA is already at 3rd gen stage, and there is no plan to mount AESA on JF-17 as far as I know, its not because our AESA is not 'mature' than the western system (which is quite opposite), it is because of RD-93 couldnt power a AESA with decent amount of T/R modular



Considering that the director projects of JF-17 thinks otherwise.. I will disregard your post.

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## SQ8

Beast said:


> You cant compare what's offer to PAF compare to what PLAAF going to have. For example, does PAF offer J-20? No , they are offer the export J-31.
> 
> And regarding radar, I am 100% sure. PAF will get Chinese AESA. Have you all eat enough humble regarding RC-400 Thales radar when compete with KJL-7 radar? Trying to find another system to compete is just trying to bring down prices with the seller. End of the day, it will still be a Chinese radar.
> 
> Chinese operation AESA AWACS fleet is enough to prove our avionics superiority compare to Russia.



Does the PAF need the J-20? That is the question you should ask yourself. 
The PAF was offered the J-10B with MORE than what the PLAAF was going to get, but it was decided not to get it because the JF-17 provided most of what was coming anyway. Please do not delude yourself that the KLJ-7 was the first choice, it was only after the RC-400 was being pushed through that the performance of KLJ-7 was improved to match that of the RC-400. 

Before offering others the humble dumpling, eat it yourself.

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## Beast

Oscar said:


> Does the PAF need the J-20? That is the question you should ask yourself.
> The PAF was offered the J-10B with MORE than what the PLAAF was going to get, but it was decided not to get it because the JF-17 provided most of what was coming anyway. Please do not delude yourself that the KLJ-7 was the first choice, it was only after the RC-400 was being pushed through that the performance of KLJ-7 was improved to match that of the RC-400.
> 
> Before offering others the humble dumpling, eat it yourself.



PAF was offer becos PLAAF is going to get J-20. That debukes your first sentence. Are you trying to imply J-20 is inferior to J-31? PAF simply could not get their hands on J-20 not becos PAF do not needs it. J-20 was never offer for export.
Regarding the KLJ-7 radar, I am never delusion. You mention a better radar was offer which implies China can simply match whatever European counterpart could throw at? At finally, the fact KLJ-7 is the radar install on JF-17. This is a fact and it will continue in block 2 or further block.

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## Syed Hussain

Beast said:


> No, Russia never 10 years ahead of China in aircraft. China makes better radar ,better aircraft design and airframe. Russian makes better engine in turboprop. In fact ,we are level. The only one ahead of China is US.





j20blackdragon said:


> Give me a break. The J-20 has already made the transition from the prototype to the pre-production stage.
> View attachment 154290
> While the PAK FA is on fire.
> View attachment 154291
> 
> 
> The J-10B with AESA is already in production and is about to enter service.
> View attachment 154292
> 
> 
> Can you show me a single in production Russian aircraft with AESA? Don't say MiG-35 because that's not in production.
> 
> Lastly, name a single Russia UAV comparable to either one of these.
> View attachment 154294
> 
> 
> View attachment 154296
> 
> In reality, Russia is only ahead in the areas developed by the Soviet Union. Russia itself has done very little over the past 24 years.
> 
> As for the Su-35 deal, I'll believe it when I see it. Show me a picture of an actual Su-35 being delivered to the PLAAF and I'll believe it, but not before then.



Many things should be kept in mind. China is pouring in billions$ in every part of it's defense industry & the "unofficial" budget is greater than the official one, while Russia is short of funds even for PAK FA & is after India to share in. China never hesitates to take foreign help in technology & copying it while Russia has a kind of ego problem(more than necessary) & do not do the so. J-10(IA-Lavi) & J-31(F-35/22) are vivid examples along with the FC-1 & many of the UAV's. & in the matter of WZ-10 designed by "Kamove" you can't even deny.
Pakistan also provided China with the privileges to "have a look" at many western technologies for example F-16's, Tomahawk Cruise Missiles, PW F129 "EEP" engine, Sniper XR Pods, AIM-120c AMRAAM, AIM-9 Sidewinder, & the list can go on & on.
J-20 is not in production neither there is any state confirmation on any AESA inducted by any Chinese production air crafts, only testing news are given. Russian "Zhuk AE-FGA 35" which is first AESA by Russia is comparable to US AESA's & is ready to go into production but funding is the problem & Byelka(Radar) is being tested on PAK FA along with the L-band AESA's on the flaps.
Let's not talk about the engines.
Still keep in mind...no offense...so do not be rash in your replies which I am sensing.
Oscar


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## j20blackdragon

Also I don't want people to misconstrue my posts as anti-Russian. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am very much pro-Russia especially after the large gas deals and currency swap between China and Russia. I am only anti-purchasing an aircraft that we don't need.

Let me throw out four random examples of very impressive Russian/Soviet aircraft.

Tupolev Tu-160 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Antonov An-124 Ruslan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Antonov An-225 Mriya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mil Mi-26 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would LOVE to see China reach this level in the aerospace industry someday.

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## SQ8

Beast said:


> PAF was offer becos PLAAF is going to get J-20. That debukes your first sentence. Are you trying to imply J-20 is inferior to J-31? PAF simply could not get their hands on J-20 not becos PAF do not needs it. J-20 was never offer for export.
> Regarding the KLJ-7 radar, I am never delusion. You mention a better radar was offer which implies China can simply match whatever European counterpart could throw at? At finally, the fact KLJ-7 is the radar install on JF-17. This is a fact and it will continue in block 2 or further block.



Not really. How was the J-20 related to the J-10B? Those are two levels of performance that the PLAAF itself has set. By your flawed logic the PLAAF should only buy J-20s. The J-20's performance and size level are simply not what the PAF wants, otherwise the J-20 has been seen and looked at by the PAF before you even heard of it. The J-11 was also on offer to the PAF back in the late 90s.. the PAF simply did not want it because it does not match its requirements. 

The KJL-7 did not have the performance that the PAF wanted when the RC-400 was offered, then the performance was improved to match it.. which means an inferior product needed the incentive of competition to improve it. The same improvement went into KJL-10 units active in J-10s with the PLAAF. The PLAAF benefits a lot from the PAF's input in ideas and technology.

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## Syed Hussain

Aah! just got fb status update from from Defence.pk... "Russian Defence Minister
Sergey Shoigu is visiting Islamabad. This is another sign that Pakistan is re adjusting and balancing its geopolitical position."


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## Syed Hussain

Oscar said:


> Not really. How was the J-20 related to the J-10B? Those are two levels of performance that the PLAAF itself has set. By your flawed logic the PLAAF should only buy J-20s. The J-20's performance and size level are simply not what the PAF wants, otherwise the J-20 has been seen and looked at by the PAF before you even heard of it. The J-11 was also on offer to the PAF back in the late 90s.. the PAF simply did not want it because it does not match its requirements.
> 
> The KJL-7 did not have the performance that the PAF wanted when the RC-400 was offered, then the performance was improved to match it.. which means an inferior product needed the incentive of competition to improve it. The same improvement went into KJL-10 units active in J-10s with the PLAAF. The PLAAF benefits a lot from the PAF's input in ideas and technology.


Someone should ask about why China is taking PAF Pilots on "deputation", where they are flying Chinese fighter jets & even training Chinese pilots...a million dollar question to be answered.


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## twocents

Syed Hussain said:


> With no offense(for We consider China as an all weather ally) but Russia's aircraft technology is still at least 10 years ahead of that of China. Mocking SU-35 is not a good idea at all. Just a "not good looking" air frame quality is not a judging point. It's superior than any other fighter jet currently in service with any country except F-22.



Fans will be fans. As far as I can tell, Chinese aviation experts still hold Russian aviation in high regard. China has made a lot progress in recent years but there is still a long way to go.

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## Penguin

j20blackdragon said:


> Is that a mock-up or an actual flying prototype?


A 1:1 model.

The development of Skat was discontinued. However, on 3 June 2013, MiG signed a research and development contract to *build* a UCAV based on the Skat design.

Mikoyan Skat - Aircraft Wiki
RAC MiG to design Skat-based unmanned combat air vehicle - 6/3/2013 - Flight Global


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## Penguin

Beast said:


> Typical indian style. Using a protoype and compare to a combat ready operational product and claim equality.


Except, I'm not Indian > go f.....igure yourself.

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## Bratva

rcrmj said:


> please, dont make jokes, Chinese AESA has nothing to do with Russia, as they cant even manufacture 2nd gen AESA T/R modular, they been stucked with PESA
> and Chinese AESA is already at 3rd gen stage, and there is no plan to mount AESA on JF-17 as far as I know, its not because our AESA is not 'mature' than the western system (which is quite opposite),* it is because of RD-93 couldnt power a AESA with decent amount of T/R modular*




Who says that? or the proof of it ?


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## siegecrossbow

Bratva said:


> Who says that? or the proof of it ?



I heard the same thing said about AL-31FN on J-10B. Probably just forum speculation.

Back to topic. Here is a photo of the Chinese DIRCM platform featured at Zhuhai.

国产光盾激光器:瞬间让光学吊舱和导弹变成瞎子-航天二炮及新概念武器-超级大本营军事论坛-最具影响力军事论坛 -


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## Akasa

Oscar said:


> Not really. How was the J-20 related to the J-10B? Those are two levels of performance that the PLAAF itself has set. By your flawed logic the PLAAF should only buy J-20s. The J-20's performance and size level are simply not what the PAF wants, otherwise the J-20 has been seen and looked at by the PAF before you even heard of it. The J-11 was also on offer to the PAF back in the late 90s.. the PAF simply did not want it because it does not match its requirements.
> 
> The KJL-7 did not have the performance that the PAF wanted when the RC-400 was offered, then the performance was improved to match it.. which means an inferior product needed the incentive of competition to improve it. The same improvement went into KJL-10 units active in J-10s with the PLAAF. The PLAAF benefits a lot from the PAF's input in ideas and technology.



Actually, you are just a bit off. The J-10 units use the Type 1473G radar, not the KLJ-10, which is only exclusive for the JH-7A aircraft.

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## aliaselin

Bratva said:


> Who says that? or the proof of it ?


I think this is only an estimation. It happens to J-10B. Before its induction, there are lots of discussion on Chinese forum that if the power from AL-31FN will be enough for an AESA radar, as all of the known fighters which are upgraded with AESA radar has used a more powerful variant engine, while the final result is consistent with some guys' thought: the new J-10B has Al-31FN Series 3, which has 1000 kgf more power than Al-31FN, though there is a possibility that this is not a cause and effect relation.
However in this forum, I have never seen any discussion about this, and maybe because JF-17 has left enough power for upgrade?


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## 帅的一匹

Oscar said:


> Not really. How was the J-20 related to the J-10B? Those are two levels of performance that the PLAAF itself has set. By your flawed logic the PLAAF should only buy J-20s. The J-20's performance and size level are simply not what the PAF wants, otherwise the J-20 has been seen and looked at by the PAF before you even heard of it. The J-11 was also on offer to the PAF back in the late 90s.. the PAF simply did not want it because it does not match its requirements.
> 
> The KJL-7 did not have the performance that the PAF wanted when the RC-400 was offered, then the performance was improved to match it.. which means an inferior product needed the incentive of competition to improve it. The same improvement went into KJL-10 units active in J-10s with the PLAAF. The PLAAF benefits a lot from the PAF's input in ideas and technology.


WOw Wow Wow, clam down my friend. @Beast , i agree with Oscar that PAF give CHina lots of hep cause PAf is aceess to foreign weapon supply,which means they could offer us a benchmark to improve. You guys shall clam down. I hope some Chinese members here could keep low tune cause we are traditionally humble people. @Oscar, never mind what those young fellow boy said, they can't really realize the essence of the cooperation between China and Pakistan. We are brothers, periods.


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## 帅的一匹

Bratva said:


> Who says that? or the proof of it ?


I think JF17 is doomed to instal a AESA radar in the futre, the powerplant will be updated to hold AESA. Being pateint, it just a matter of time.


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## nomi007

*@j20blackdragon*
*@siegecrossbow*
kindly post cockpit images

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## Speeder 2

nomi007 said:


> *@j20blackdragon
> @siegecrossbow*
> kindly post cockpit images



^ ^  


errrr... very romantic!


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## Malik Alashter

Beast said:


> You cant compare what's offer to PAF compare to what PLAAF going to have. For example, does PAF offer J-20? No , they are offer the export J-31.
> 
> And regarding radar, I am 100% sure. PAF will get Chinese AESA. Have you all eat enough humble regarding RC-400 Thales radar when compete with KJL-7 radar? Trying to find another system to compete is just trying to bring down prices with the seller. End of the day, it will still be a Chinese radar.
> 
> Chinese operation AESA AWACS fleet is enough to prove our avionics superiority compare to Russia.


That's what I believe.

China is superior to Russia in electronics unless otherwise Russia show something new with robust capabilities that surpass what the Chinese offer so far.

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## Syed Hussain

cirr said:


> J-21 tail-end：
> 
> View attachment 148833


Lovely, will be great if it come with TVC capability...!


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## nomi007



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## Haitham

cnleio said:


> China CX-1 supersonice missile detail pics
> 
> View attachment 153919
> View attachment 153920
> View attachment 153952


I think it is Brahmos copy ..... may be with some modifications 
It is time for China to get out from the area of copying weapons 
China have money, scientists and facilities for manufacturing ..... you must create your own style 
I believe that China is the upcoming superpower in the world

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## rcrmj

Bratva said:


> Who says that? or the proof of it ?


it is a common sense, you need certain amount of power output to support a decent AESA


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## rcrmj

Oscar said:


> Considering that the director projects of JF-17 thinks otherwise.. I will disregard your post.


i'd rather trust my channel of source as long as China is concerned, I'd believe PAF will get J-31 in the near future than JF-17 with AESA in next block


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## Beast

Haitham said:


> I think it is Brahmos copy ..... may be with some modifications
> It is time for China to get out from the area of copying weapons
> China have money, scientists and facilities for manufacturing ..... you must create your own style
> I believe that China is the upcoming superpower in the world


China is a very practical country. It's useless to have a style if the thing can't work. You see the western military project is getting so expensive that the west or other countries will not able to afford the next gen military fighter project. 

The west product is over engineer and now the price is coming back to haunt them.

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## 帅的一匹

Haitham said:


> I think it is Brahmos copy ..... may be with some modifications
> It is time for China to get out from the area of copying weapons
> China have money, scientists and facilities for manufacturing ..... you must create your own style
> I believe that China is the upcoming superpower in the world


All missile alike seems very similiar, why China should build an exotic one, just to prove we are not copying? The only good weapon is an operational one, don't be naive. We just want to tell India how cheap is the weapon they pround of, go get a life.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Haitham said:


> I think it is Brahmos copy ..... may be with some modifications
> It is time for China to get out from the area of copying weapons
> China have money, scientists and facilities for manufacturing ..... you must create your own style
> I believe that China is the upcoming superpower in the world



We have our own style of anti-ship missiles which are by far more superior to Brahmos.

But we are now doing this just to tease India, not to copy their Russian technology.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> No, Russia never 10 years ahead of China in aircraft. China makes better radar ,better aircraft design and airframe. Russian makes better engine in turboprop. In fact ,we are level. The only one ahead of China is US.



The turning point between the turbofan jet engine between China and Russia will be the coming WS-15.

Right now J-31 is starting to test with the WS-13A engine.

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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The turning point between the turbofan jet engine between China and Russia will be the coming WS-15.
> 
> Right now J-31 is starting to test with the WS-13A engine.
> 
> View attachment 156405


I wish to see more FC-31 out for testing ... after two years development start to mass production & sell in internatinoal weapon market. *UP ~! *

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## cirr

Haitham said:


> I think it is Brahmos copy ..... may be with some modifications
> It is time for China to get out from the area of copying weapons
> China have money, scientists and facilities for manufacturing ..... you must create your own style
> I believe that China is the upcoming superpower in the world



Yeah，a "copy" is far more potent than the original。

By the way，how do you “copy” something as sophisticated as a missile？

By just staring at a photo？

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## terranMarine

cirr said:


> Yeah，a "copy" is far more potent than the original。
> 
> By the way，how do you “copy” something as sophisticated as a missile？
> 
> By just staring at a photo？



Well the Americans also gave us the credentials for possessing this stare ability therefor they had ordered the South Koreans not to display the trainers at our Air Show since it contains sensitive technologies.


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## Syed Hussain

cnleio said:


> Official data on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show: China "TaiHang" WS-10A jet engine
> 
> View attachment 150620


Why can't Chinese give some detailed specs about their products? they never do, they always keep us speculating...!


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## j20blackdragon

Syed Hussain said:


> Why can't Chinese give some detailed specs about their products? they never do, they always keep us speculating...!



14,000 kgf of thrust is the ultimate spec. This puts it slightly below the 117S (14,500 kgf), but very close.

The Taihang engine is already in-production and in-service with the PLAAF. Note the yellow serial numbers on the vertical stabilizer. These are in-service aircraft.










The Taihang is also in-service with the PLANAF. Note the blue serial numbers. The fact that the PLANAF is willing to use the Taihang should at least give you a clue regarding its reliability. Only a fool would fly an unreliable engine over water.





















The next step would be to power the J-10B/C, J-11D, J-15, and J-16 with the Taihang. So like I said again and again on this forum, there is no need for the Su-35.

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## Syed Hussain

j20blackdragon said:


> 14,000 kgf of thrust is the ultimate spec. This puts it slightly below the 117S (14,500 kgf), but very close.
> 
> The Taihang engine is already in-production and in-service with the PLAAF. Note the yellow serial numbers on the vertical stabilizer. These are in-service aircraft.
> View attachment 157322
> 
> View attachment 157323
> 
> 
> The Taihang is also in-service with the PLANAF. Note the blue serial numbers. The fact that the PLANAF is willing to use the Taihang should at least give you a clue regarding its reliability. Only a fool would fly an unreliable engine over water.
> View attachment 157326
> 
> View attachment 157328
> 
> View attachment 157329
> 
> View attachment 157330
> 
> View attachment 157331
> 
> 
> The next step would be to power the J-10B/C, J-11D, J-15, and J-16 with the Taihang. So like I said again and again on this forum, there is no need for the Su-35.


Great to see that, rest assure that I was not talking about SU-35..but "detailed specs"...like dry thrust, weight, time between the overhauls etc....because net only tells about the condition of Taihang between 2008/10 in detail & for 2013 it tells of "major breakthrough in metallurgy but not exact specs.


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## applesauce

cirr said:


> Yeah，a "copy" is far more potent than the original。
> 
> By the way，how do you “copy” something as sophisticated as a missile？
> 
> By just staring at a photo？


this is why the world should fear the pla

they can "copy"(and improve) any weapon with just a photograph
i hear they been looking at pictures of star destroyers lol

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## j20blackdragon

Syed Hussain said:


> Great to see that, rest assure that I was not talking about SU-35..but "detailed specs"...like dry thrust, weight, time between the overhauls etc....because net only tells about the condition of Taihang between 2008/10 in detail & for 2013 it tells of "major breakthrough in metallurgy but not exact specs.



In any case, the Taihang's 14,000 kgf of maximum thrust is enough to surpass the AL-31F M1 (13,500 kgf) and AL-31FN Series 3 (13,700 kgf). I consider that to be very good news. So unless Russia is willing to sell us large numbers of 117S, which I don't think they want to do, there's nothing left to buy.

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## Syed Hussain

Though not for sale but the beasty could have "opened some mouths" at Zhuhai... 




Pic comparison between the "little big dragons"...

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## cirr

An extremely advanced medium-range A2A missile that was overlooked by the general public during the recently held Zhuhai Airshow：





F-80 by A-Star





Other products from the same company

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## Beast

cirr said:


> An extremely advanced medium-range A2A missile that was overlooked by the general public during the recently held Zhuhai Airshow：
> 
> View attachment 158888
> 
> F-80 by A-Star
> 
> View attachment 158887
> 
> Other products from the same company



Seems like possess some multi angle TV seeker? Or something new?


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## teddy

cirr said:


> An extremely advanced medium-range A2A missile that was overlooked by the general public during the recently held Zhuhai Airshow：
> 
> View attachment 158888
> 
> F-80 by A-Star
> 
> View attachment 158887
> 
> Other products from the same company



It was a active seeking missile with 5 small AESA radia
design for j20


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## j20blackdragon



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## Beast

Nice fleet of air asset of AWCA, transport, multi role strike aircraft and strategic bomber.

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## nomi007

*did not see any next generation primary trainer in zhuhai 2014*



j20blackdragon said:


> View attachment 159475
> 
> View attachment 159477
> 
> View attachment 159478


can u share cockpit images of y-20

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## j20blackdragon



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## Kompromat

j20blackdragon said:


> View attachment 161293



Lets wait till this baby has its rightful pack of engines

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## 菜鸟耶夫斯基

Sulman Badshah said:


> My chinese friends , What is speed of CX 1 ???


My Pakistan friend
CX-1 high air——2.8~3.0Mach，Low air2.2~2.4Mach.
Both CX-1 and Brahmos are Air intakes in the head，like Mig-21 or F-86. Because it‘s light weight. But CX-1 has many different ballistic modes. And its warhead is heavier.



mike2000 said:


> I like this one, is it a new type of drone?







hey mate，my college English teacher also is a British.
WG-1（无攻-1，or攻击-1，Attack-1）Drone is a kind of Reconnaissance and strike integrated UAV. Like MQ-1. Lots of them has been exported to some country. You really like it？ We can offer FOB price.

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## cnleio

SW-1 UAV on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## cnleio

Wing Loong-I UAV & Remote Control Room on 2014 ZhuHai Air Show

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## Dalit

j20blackdragon said:


> View attachment 161293



Absolute beast!


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## nomi007



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## Beast

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 184458
> 
> View attachment 184458



Looks like Y-9 interior bay is lower compare to C-130J


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## masud

cnleio said:


> I smell French fashion on "2014-ZhuHai Air Show"
> 
> China WS-2 MLRS
> 
> 
> View attachment 143646
> 
> View attachment 143647
> 
> View attachment 143648
> 
> View attachment 143649
> 
> View attachment 143650
> 
> View attachment 143652


is it the same verson that bangladesh army recently bought?


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## masud

GeHAC said:


> View attachment 146669
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bramos:WTF?


AFTER seeing this chines brahmos, first time i laught........... sorry for our indian brothers.


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## Martian2

*China's HQ-16 (export name LY-80) Surface-to-Air Missile has thrust vectoring*

Thrust-vectoring on the HQ-16 increases maneuverability. This means the HQ-16 SAM is ultra-lethal. You wouldn't want four HQ-16 SAMs simultaneously chasing your fighter jet.

Photo Gallery: China Defense Close-Up | Aviation Week

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## Martian2

*China's "Red Arrow" ATGM (anti-tank guided missile)*

The Chinese "Red Arrow" ATGM (ie. anti-tank guided missile) is the equivalent of an American Javelin. It is a fire-and-forget missile. It can be used to destroy a tank by attacking the thinner armor on the top. Alternatively, it can be used to destroy a building.
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Defense Updates: Norinco Red Arrow 12 / HJ-12 Multi-Purpose Missile System

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## Martian2

*China's QW-19 MANPADS*

Chinese MANPADS (or Chinese Stingers) have become quite sophisticated.
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Photo Gallery: China Defense Close-Up | Aviation Week





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Airshow China 2014: CASIC unveils QW-19 MANPADS - IHS Jane's 360

"*Airshow China 2014: CASIC unveils QW-19 MANPADS*
Reuben F Johnson, Kiev - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
12 November 2014

The China Aerospace Science Industrial Corporation (CASIC) is showing the newest in its line of man-portable air defence systems (MANPADS) at Air Show China 2014.

The QW-19 appears outwardly to be very similar to the previous QW-18 design but there are several differences.

*"The QW-19 utilises a new digital seeker that is a departure from previous models," said a CASIC representative. "This digital technology gives the weapon a much higher jamming immunity compared to other models."*

The CASIC official added that the QW-19 system is still in development and no date has been given for it to be made operational.

*The missile's infrared (IR) seeker is also reportedly a new, dual-band, imaging seeker that provides for better performance in both target acquisition and lock-on.* This advancement mirrors the type of improvements in design seen in a number of countries' air-to-air missiles.

*This missile will supposedly be capable of head-on intercepts similar to those of the Russian KBM Igla-S, including the ability to take out cruise missiles.* In addition to these performance enhancements, the missile has a consumable launch module that remains in the firing tube after the missile has ignited and is in flight. "This protects the soldier operating the missile better than in previous models" where this piece of hardware detached from the missile once it has left the launcher, the representative said.

COMMENT

MANPADS are becoming a popular element of very short range air defence (VSHORAD) systems in several nations, and Chinese industry is following this trend. The development of this MANPADS system, which is just a short step above the previous model, will create some significant improvements in the range and lethality of existing short-range and unit-level air defence systems simply by swapping out older missiles for this new one.
*CASIC produces a number of different MANPADS models and the company maintains a dividing line between those systems that are designed for People's Liberation Army use and those for export. *The QW-19 will be available for export in several markets, but it remains to be seen how soon customers operating the earlier model QW-18 will be ready to trade in their older units for this new design."

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## Beast

Martian2 said:


> *China's QW-19 MANPADS*
> 
> Chinese MANPADS (or Chinese Stingers) have become quite sophisticated.
> ----------
> 
> Photo Gallery: China Defense Close-Up | Aviation Week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> 
> Airshow China 2014: CASIC unveils QW-19 MANPADS - IHS Jane's 360
> 
> "*Airshow China 2014: CASIC unveils QW-19 MANPADS*
> Reuben F Johnson, Kiev - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
> 12 November 2014
> 
> The China Aerospace Science Industrial Corporation (CASIC) is showing the newest in its line of man-portable air defence systems (MANPADS) at Air Show China 2014.
> 
> The QW-19 appears outwardly to be very similar to the previous QW-18 design but there are several differences.
> 
> *"The QW-19 utilises a new digital seeker that is a departure from previous models," said a CASIC representative. "This digital technology gives the weapon a much higher jamming immunity compared to other models."*
> 
> The CASIC official added that the QW-19 system is still in development and no date has been given for it to be made operational.
> 
> *The missile's infrared (IR) seeker is also reportedly a new, dual-band, imaging seeker that provides for better performance in both target acquisition and lock-on.* This advancement mirrors the type of improvements in design seen in a number of countries' air-to-air missiles.
> 
> *This missile will supposedly be capable of head-on intercepts similar to those of the Russian KBM Igla-S, including the ability to take out cruise missiles.* In addition to these performance enhancements, the missile has a consumable launch module that remains in the firing tube after the missile has ignited and is in flight. "This protects the soldier operating the missile better than in previous models" where this piece of hardware detached from the missile once it has left the launcher, the representative said.
> 
> COMMENT
> 
> MANPADS are becoming a popular element of very short range air defence (VSHORAD) systems in several nations, and Chinese industry is following this trend. The development of this MANPADS system, which is just a short step above the previous model, will create some significant improvements in the range and lethality of existing short-range and unit-level air defence systems simply by swapping out older missiles for this new one.
> *CASIC produces a number of different MANPADS models and the company maintains a dividing line between those systems that are designed for People's Liberation Army use and those for export. *The QW-19 will be available for export in several markets, but it remains to be seen how soon customers operating the earlier model QW-18 will be ready to trade in their older units for this new design."


The best MANPAD made by China is FN-6. The export set is downgraded but still prove very lethal than QW series.

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## Syed Hussain

Hello Sires, @Beast @j20blackdragon @wanglaokan
Actually the message is about no big thing to disturb you for replying but curiosity forced me to and found you people to be suitable to get answer from..I have searched my best but was not able to find a precise flight video of J-10b variant while We have tons of high definition pics...any reason why there is no flight video? or I am not searching right?
If you will please...
Regards.


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## Muhammad Omar

Syed Hussain said:


> Hello Sires, @Beast @j20blackdragon @wanglaokan
> Actually the message is about no big thing to disturb you for replying but curiosity forced me to and found you people to be suitable to get answer from..I have searched my best but was not able to find a precise flight video of J-10b variant while We have tons of high definition pics...any reason why there is no flight video? or I am not searching right?
> If you will please...
> Regards.
> View attachment 225399




i think this will help you out..


Magnificent performance of China Fighter Jet J-10 （ 歼-10） on China Air Show, 2012 - PlayIt.pk

Chinese J-10 Fighter In Action - PlayIt.pk

Ejercito★Aviones cazas chinos "CHENGDU" J-10 acrobacia aérea MAKS 2013/ fuerza aérea - PlayIt.pk


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## Deino

Muhammad Omar said:


> i think this will help you out..
> 
> 
> Magnificent performance of China Fighter Jet J-10 （ 歼-10） on China Air Show, 2012 - PlayIt.pk
> 
> Chinese J-10 Fighter In Action - PlayIt.pk
> 
> Ejercito★Aviones cazas chinos "CHENGDU" J-10 acrobacia aérea MAKS 2013/ fuerza aérea - PlayIt.pk




But these are all J-10*A* and AY ... he specificly asked for the J-10*B* !

But these might help (a bit maybe):














Deino

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## Beast

J-10B are still waiting for the new domestic engine that has 140KN thrust to allow supercruise.

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## Syed Hussain

Well guys @Beast @Muhammad Omar thanks for your time, but the problem is still there...I have all the major event videos of "August First" team in HD...but I was particularly searching for the B variant of J-10
And @Beast I guess with or without supercruise the B variant is flying from almost 6 to 7 years now...so there should have been a video????
@Deino youtube is blocked here  I can open it from proxy but can't click the link from here but on youtube there are videos of taxing, takeoff and landing of the B variant...no flight video.


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## Deino

Hmmm ... strange ! I can easily open and watch them even if You are correct they are not really flight videos; sadly !

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## Beast

Syed Hussain said:


> Well guys @Beast @Muhammad Omar thanks for your time, but the problem is still there...I have all the major event videos of "August First" team in HD...but I was particularly searching for the B variant of J-10
> And @Beast I guess with or without supercruise the B variant is flying from almost 6 to 7 years now...so there should have been a video????
> @Deino youtube is blocked here  I can open it from proxy but can't click the link from here but on youtube there are videos of taxing, takeoff and landing of the B variant...no flight video.


I think testing of J-10B is not highlight and avid fans divert their attention to J-20. Sad to say not much info and video of J-20 is available.


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## Akasa

A video from the Zhuhai Airshow demonstrating the network-centric nature of some of the systems presented at the exhibition that are for export:


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## cirr

新飞行器——多轴自旋翼直升飞行器 升力试验—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看


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## Malik Alashter

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Yes, it is the LMAT Type 01
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 148280
> 
> 
> View attachment 148281
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 148282


It's fast faster than the javelin.


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## chinachen

作为一名中国人，首先向巴基斯坦的朋友道个歉。
因为在中国有少部分人因为不了解巴基斯坦，所以对巴基斯坦的人民会有些误解和偏见，甚至有部分人会产生一些不礼貌的行为，当然，这只是极少的一部分人，主要分布在一些没有接触网络信息的人群中。在中国，绝大多数人都知道巴基斯坦是中国最铁杆的盟友，并对巴基斯坦一直以来对中国的帮助致以崇高的敬意。
原来本人的英文水准不行，如果有机会的话，希望能到巴基斯坦游玩，感受和了解贵国的文化。
愿 中巴友谊 天长地久 万岁！
愿 你我联手 走向和平的未来


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## Deino

Sorry, but how is this related to the Zhuhai Airshow ???


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