# Pakistan's UAV - Drone developments



## fatman17

*Pakistan using UAVs in 'drone war' against terrorist elements*

Robert Hewson Jane's Air-Launched Weapons Editor - London

Key Points

Pakistan has been using Falco UAVs to help combat militants in the country's remote tribal areas

The Falco has been deployed on surveillance and target 'hunting' missions


Pakistan has quietly been conducting its own 'drone war' against militant forces and terrorist elements using Selex-Galileo Falco tactical unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), Jane's has learned. 

*According to a number of industry officials who have been in Pakistan and experienced UAV operations there, the Pakistani military is using unarmed Falcos for traditional surveillance tasks but also in a 'hunter' role - targeting air strikes, providing real-time coverage of attacks and then delivering battle damage assessments.* 

*Selex-Galileo has declined to identify the single nation currently flying the Falco in front-line operations but that customer is known to be Pakistan, with Pakistan Air Force (PAF) chief Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed having told Jane's in November that the PAF would begin using the Falco in live operations by the start of 2009.* 

*Pakistan has ordered five Falco systems, each comprising four air vehicles plus one spare and a ground control system (GCS). Two complete systems are now in service, two more are working up to deployment and one has just been delivered.* 

*The Falcos are flying intensively, as noted by one source who told Jane's : "The customer is using more than one system every single day." *

The Falcos have operated in several regions of concern to the Pakistan government, including the mountainous Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) along the Afghan border. *This was alluded to by an official who noted that the Falco's hot-and-high capabilities had been proven in operations "from airfields at 1,000 m altitude in circumstances identical to Afghanistan".* 

"The Falcos have two basic missions," said one programme source: "surveillance of critical areas - and there are a lot of them - and operations as part of a manned and unmanned mixed fleet, in combat. 

"Surveillance means identifying and tracking critical targets like convoys or 'terrorist establishments'. In hunter operations the Falco goes out looking for targets, identifies them and relays their position to the command and control centre, where priority-one targets are allocated for attack by fast jets. 

*"The sensor system is world-beating and can easily ID an individual person from the appropriate altitude. The target handover is done through the GCS to the military's C4I system, and it's done quickly - sometimes less than 20 minutes, sometimes less than 10. *

*"When the attack is inbound the Falco will climb and loiter at a higher altitude. It can provide a real-time view of the attack, although that's over in seconds, and then do an immediate damage assessment. I have witnessed several of these operations. It's not being done on paper; these are real missions." *

Selex-Galileo says that, despite customer interest, it has no ambitions to develop an armed Falco for export. An armed variant could materialise if a requirement emerged in its domestic markets (Italy and the UK) but the company believes that having a weapon capability would exclude the Falco from several potential markets elsewhere. "You start to encounter Missile Technology Control Regime regulations and other limitations," said one official. 

*The current air vehicle has a limited payload and would be restricted to two 30 kg-class weapons - although this would double in planned growth versions of the Falco. Selex-Galileo notes an interest in the Thales Lightweight Multirole Missile (LMM) as a theoretical future weapon option.* 

The Falco XN - the variant currently in service - has a 420 kg maximum take-off weight (MTOW) with a 70 kg sensor payload. Endurance lasts from eight to 14 hours and the UAV has a datalinked range of 200 km. 

Selex-Galileo has now developed the Falco Evo (Evolution) upgrade, which can be retrofitted to existing Falcos. The Evo adds longer wings and tailbooms, increasing MTOW to 750 kg with a 120 kg payload. Endurance is increased to a maximum of 18 hours and the Evo can exceed the XN's 6000 m altitude limit. 

Selex-Galileo is building four Falco Evo prototypes, with first flight scheduled for the second quarter of 2010. The company believes that its existing customer is a strong sales prospect for the Evo and it hopes to double or even triple the installed Falco fleet there.

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## hj786

Thanks for posting that, great news. 

Can't wait for the UCAV project to be finished, no more having to wait for fighters to arrive.

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## arsenal_gooner

Is this it ???


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## Patriot

^ Yep that's the one.Excellent News..I am really glad to hear that our Military has good command and control system.

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## Super Falcon

is that same uav in which pak was interested to buy from germany in 2004


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## Patriot

Super Falcon said:


> is that same uav in which pak was interested to buy from germany in 2004


No, this UAV is produced by some Italian Firm.


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## Bane Blade

What is the build cost for one of these UAV's and is the Italian firm making them in the Pakistani Industry or in Italy.


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## mhacsan

They are being developed in Italy, not quite sure of selling proce to pakistan, cost does not matter here, becz its not our product


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## A1Kaid

*PAF starts drone production*


Written by Farooq Hussain Headlines, Pakistan Aug 21, 2009




Pak Air Force has *formally started the production of pilotless drone planes in collaboration with an Italian company*, a news channel reported Thursday.

FALCO UAV - Pakistan According to details issued by the PAF, the *Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra has commenced producing the pilotless planes Falco UAV in collaboration with Selex Galileo of Italy*. Aeronautical Complex chief Air Marshal Farhat Hussain said pilotless Falco UAV highly important for the country&#8217;s defence, adding the production of the planes will greatly add to the professional capabilities of PAF.

*Farhat said Pakistan is now a member of the club of countries manufacturing drone planes*. The system will be used mainly for aerial reconnaissance and information gathering, although the PAF will later also induct* UAVs equipped with weapon systems to carry out offensive operations*.

Source: PAF starts drone production | Pakistan Daily

*
Excellent news.*

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## Arsalan

well sir with all the respect there is already a thread on this very topic, i wonder why a new one was required!
MODs, need your attention!

regards!


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## mean_bird

*Pakistan moves to drone independence​*
QUETTA, Pakistan - Having already gained experience and guidance from the United States on the effective use of drones, Pakistan is working on its own Predator-like unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), which have helped revolutionize warfare.

The growth of Pakistan's indigenous UAV industry is of great importance for the country's defense, as the nation is on the front line of the "war on terror".

State-owned defense enterprise Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) in Kamra, east of the capital, Islamabad, is engaged in 


manufacturing Falco pilotless planes in collaboration with Selex Galileo of Italy. Initially, the Falco system is for aerial reconnaissance and information gathering. The country later plans to induct UAVs equipped with weapon systems to carry out offensive operations.

These high-tech efforts come as the country's defense expenditure is expected to exceed the budgetary allocation of 343 billion rupees (US$4 billion) by about 20% during the fiscal year ending next June, because of military operations against militants in North-West Frontier Province.

Local analysts believe that production of surveillance drones is the first step and that by modifying existing UAVs the country can eventually achieve its ultimate goal of producing drones equipped with missiles. The US is already using such weapons against Islamist extremists in the country's tribal areas along the Afghanistan border.

Rebuffed for security reasons in its efforts to buy UAVs from the US, Pakistan instead bought unarmed Falco reconnaissance drones from Italy, according to a report published in Los Angeles Times in October. Pakistan has not stopped trying to acquire drones from the US, but has decided to begin making its own. The report claimed that Pakistani technicians at Kamra are still in training and several months away from beginning to manufacture them.

The Falcos produced in Pakistan, like the Italian-made aircraft, won't have strike capability or be able to fly nearly as far as the US's Predator and Reaper drones, the LA Times report said, citing Lieutenant Colonel Gohar Majeed, who is helping lead drone production at the PAC.

Pakistan's armed forces are at war with Pakistani Taliban insurgents in the country's northwest and are working with American drones. The drones' capabilities are being put at the disposal of the Pakistani forces, giving them experience in the effective use of the machines and their successful deployment.

Burraq is the country's latest domestically produced UAV, is based on the Falco-Selex Galileo technology and is believed to be intended as the Pakistan's main equivalent to the American Predator.

"PAC engineers have been working on the first UAV project of the country for two years," according to a report published on the aviation industry Flightglobal website in August. Pakistan is also reported to be flight-testing the Burraq, named for a winged-horse type creature in Islamic tradition. The Burraq is to be equipped with National Engineering and Scientific Commission (or NESCom) designed laser designator and laser-guided missiles. Unlike the Falco, Burraq will be able to attack and destroy targets.

Pakistan has now virtually become a member of the club of countries manufacturing drones. The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) desperately needs UAVs capable of firing at targeted militants.

The Falco, with an autonomous navigation and control system, has a standard control link range of 200 kilometers and is capable of short take-offs from semi-prepared airstrips. Among its prominent features are automatic take-off and landing, fully redundant and fault-tolerant control systems and near-real-time target image processing.

Selex Galileo has test flown a Falco at the company's UAV test facility at ParcAberporth in west Wales in the UK. The vehicle was equipped with the active electronically scanned array PicoSAR and an infrared sensor. The high-resolution SAR (synthetic-aperture radar) makes the radar particularly useful for detecting disturbances in ground surface.

Pakistan's aviation firms have been involved in manufacturing small drones for years. Integrated Dynamics (ID), a local firm has been producing smaller UAVs for the government and commercial market for the last 12 years. Other private enterprises, including Surveillance & Target Unmanned Aircraft (Satuma) and East West Infiniti (EWI), have been involved in manufacturing UAVs in the country. State-owned aviation firms which produce UAVs include the Air Weapons Complex (AWC), National Development Complex (NDC) and PAC.

Some analysts believe that Pakistan is manufacturing the latest UAVs with the help of Turkey and China. The new Uqaab UAV is believed to have been developed with the help of Turkey. In March 2008, Pakistan announced the successful completion of flight tests of Uqaab, which appears similar to the US Army RQ-7B Shadow 200. Equipped with a night vision camera, the US Shadow 200 UAV has the capability to fly as high as 15,000 feet and stay 5.5 hours in the air.

China has helped Pakistan in strengthening its defenses, particularly the aviation industry. Beijing extended support in designing a fighter aircraft, the JF-17 Thunder, to meet Pakistan's specific defense needs, besides helping to set up aircraft production facilities in the country.

The first production JF-17 Thunder produced in Kamra was last month handed over to PAF. The light-weight, all-weather aircraft has the capability to carry short as well as long-range air-to-air missiles and its integrated avionics made it capable for fighting in the air for a longer period.

Pakistan plans also to acquire four airborne warning and control system (AWACS) aircraft from China.

In the current fiscal year, Pakistan's defense expenditures are estimated to be somewhere between 400 billion and 410 billion rupees, up by about 70 billion rupees on the 343 billion rupee allocation. Last year, the allocated amount of 296 billion rupees was twice revised upwards to 329 billion rupees, to be 11% over the budget estimates.

Syed Fazl-e-Haider (Syed Fazl e Haider ) is a development analyst in Pakistan. He is the author of many books, including The Economic Development of Balochistan (2004). He can be contacted at sfazlehaider05@yahoo.com.


**************************************
Btw, since these drones/UAVs are now an integral part of PAF, I suggest we have a sticky UAV thread in this subsection.

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## Mercenary

These Falco don't carry any weapons. They need to be armed to be actually considered useful.

US is considering deploying Predator Drones for every platoon in combat. In which ground troops can reconnaissance the area ahead and bring devastating fire from above.


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## Mercenary

Pakistan also needs to develop an indigenous attack helicopter like the Cobra.


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## FreekiN

So this means that we will be using our own drones? And the American attacks will cease? I hope so...


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## PAFAce

Mercenary said:


> Pakistan also needs to develop an indigenous attack helicopter like the Cobra.



It only makes sense to produce something locally if you are going to induct them in large numbers, or if you are going to sell them in large numbers. As of yet, the Army has no intention to expanding Army Aviation to a much larger level, as far as I know. And even if we did, it would be worthwhile to get ToT of an already pre-existing attack helicopter (China, Turkey, Russia, anybody) and improve it in-house than to create our own attack helicopter.

I don't know the desired size of a UCAV force in any of the three services. It could be that the Air Force would operate the UCAVs, whereas the Army and Navy would operate their own ISR UAVs, or all three services could modify UCAVs for see and land attacks. We just don't know how many we will need, and what types, what we do know is that we'll need a significant amount in all three services. Hence, it makes sense to go for an indigenous UCAV option


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## Barrett

UAVs have proved to be a very safe and convenient weapon against terrorists in both surveillance and attack missions, but how effective will it be against a more sophisticated enemy, wouldn't they be sitting ducks for SAMs ? 
How will Pakistan use them once the operation in the tribal areas ends(Hopefully soon)


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## Barrett

Drones: Made in Pakistan 
By Salman Siddiqui 


Looking at the facility from outside, no one would guess what goes on within the 90,000-square-foot research facility of Integrated Dynamics (ID), a privately owned company in Karachi. There are no signboards indicating that ID is in the business of developing drone technology for military and civilian use. Surprisingly, there isn&#8217;t even an army of security guards manning the complex as one would expect upon entering the gate. A lonesome gate keeper lets us in without a fuss. 
Even more startling is the ease with which R.S. Khan, ID's chief executive, states that &#8216;drone technology has existed in Pakistan for the last 20 years.&#8217;

Khan, who graduated from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology with a master's degree in aeronautics and astronautics, is quick to clarify that his company has &#8216;never been asked to develop a drone which has an armed implication.&#8217; Instead, ID develops advanced Unmanned Autonomous Vehicle (UAV) systems capable of reconnaissance missions as well as target decoys for anti-aircraft missiles. His customers, he says, include the armed forces of the country as well as foreign buyers from the US, Australia, Spain, Italy and France. 

Although he may not have been asked to develop an armed drone, Khan, who previously worked as a consultant for Pakistan&#8217;s aerospace agency Suparco, points out: &#8216;If we consider the fact that drone development has been taking place in Pakistan for the last 20 years, I think the technology for flying long-range autonomous missions has existed for at least 10-12 years.&#8217;

Given Khan's estimations about local drone development, it is unclear why Pakistan is asking the US to handover its armed drone technology, especially that of the infamous Predator. President Asif Ali Zardari recently told the British daily Independent that the US should give Pakistan the &#8216;weapons, drones and missiles that will allow us to take care of&#8217; the militant threat in the tribal areas.' 


*Drone terminology*


Model aircraft: Typically a remote-controlled unmanned plane that flies within the visual range of an operator.

Unmanned Aerial Vehicle: A remote-controlled unmanned plane that can fly beyond the visual range of an operator. It is usually fitted with remote sensors and/or cameras.

Unmanned Autonomous Vehicle: An advanced form of unmanned aerial vehicles, it may have a range of hundreds of kilometres and an endurance of months. Moreover, the mission can be pre-programmed in such systems and can be completed with or without the assistance of an operator. Some advanced versions also use artificial intelligence.

Drone: In Pakistan, drones are usually associated with advanced unmanned autonomous vehicles that are fitted with lethal firepower (for example, the American Predator and Reaper drones). Target drones do not have combat capability and are used as decoys to simulate fighter aircrafts and test anti-aircraft batteries. 

&#8216;If you ask anyone in Pakistan involved in the business of making unmanned UAVs whether something similar to the Predator drone aircraft can be made, the answer would be yes,' explains Khan. 'I won&#8217;t say we can make it overnight or by tomorrow. But I won&#8217;t say either that it is a matter of decades. I would say that, if given the task, we can make such aircrafts in a few years.' As a technologist, Khan is hesitant to speculate as to why the Pakistan government or armed forces are not investing in home-made technology. 'I think you need to ask the policy makers that.' 



*UAVs in Pakistan*


Interestingly, there are several public sector companies involved in developing UAVs in Pakistan, including the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Air Weapons Complex (AWC) and National Development Complex (NDC). 

The PAC's Uqaab drone is in use by the Pakistan Army, and, according to unconfirmed reports, is being upgraded with Chinese help to carry a weapons payload. Other PAC UAVs include the Bazz and Ababeel. AWC's Bravo+ UAV is in use of the Pakistan Airforce (PAF). The PAF recently acquired an unarmed Italian drone called the Falco UAV, which is reportedly being used for surveillance and battleground assessments in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas. In 2008, the Pakistan Navy also reportedly completed trials of UAVs - the Austrian Schiebel Camcopter S-100 and Swedish Cybaero - from a Pakistani frigate in the Arabian Sea.

Private sector companies are also involved in the design and development of UAVs. Apart from ID in Karachi, East-West Infinity (EWI), Satuma and Global Industrial Defense Solutions (GIDS) are in the drone-making business. 

The EWI's Heliquad UAV is considered a stealth design because of its small size and Whisper Watch signals intelligence package, which is capable of picking up radio and other communication signals. ID's Nishan Mk1 and TJ1000, Vision MK1 & MK2, Tornado, Border Eagle, Hornet, Hawk and Vector are also popular models employed by the armed forces for reconnaissance missions and target practice (each model varies in range and endurance). Satuma's UAVs, with similar functionalities, are called Flamingo, Jasoos and Mukhbar. For its part, the GIDS develops the Huma-1 UAV and its own version of the Uqaab. 

Even though almost all UAVs in the country have been built for military applications - reconnaissance, simulations, decoy systems, remote sensing - none of them are reported to be capable of firing arms. Moreover, none of the above-mentioned facilities are involved in large-scale, mass production of UAVs. 



*Policy on drones*


It is still not clear what Pakistan&#8217;s policy regarding unmanned drones is. On the one hand, Pakistan has &#8216;condemn[ed] in the strongest terms&#8217; any US drone attack. On the other hand, reports have emerged that the US has the tacit approval of the current government.

Previously, former president Pervez Musharraf had reportedly authorized Washington to launch Predator drones from secret bases near Islamabad and Jacobabad. Google Earth images of an airbase in Balochistan hosting Predators had also emerged at a time when Pakistan was adamantly claiming that all drones were flying in from Afghanistan. More recently, the Pakistan Army &#8216;practiced&#8217; shooting down drones, but even then, foreign aircrafts continued to rain in their missiles. 

ID's Khan explains that shooting down drones to prevent attacks is a viable option. &#8216;From a technical standpoint, all it takes is a simple air-to-air or surface-to-air missile to bring the drone down. Almost all of these aircrafts have a very low radar signature. But they&#8217;re not undetectable. They can be detected,' he says. 'The question really is whether one wants to bring one down or not.'



*Drones vs. casualties*

Quote

&#8216;The question really is whether one wants to bring one down or not.&#8217;

According to news reports, US drone attacks have killed around 701 people in Pakistan since 2006, including 14 alleged Al Qaeda leaders. Although armed UAVs or drones provide safety to their operators since they cannot be harmed if the aircraft are shot down during combat operations, they come at the cost of scores of civilian casualties, who bear the brunt of aerial raids. Therefore, it is debatable whether the armed drones, even if built and controlled by Pakistan, would actually make a difference in terms of changing the sentiment of the people against their devastating impact.



*The way forward*


Apart from their use in a military context, there is a need to deploy UAVs for the benefit of Pakistani communities. UAVs abroad are being used for a variety of civilian services, including search and rescue operations, environmental analysis, assisting local law enforcers, scientific research and even transport. Situational awareness about a potentially hazardous or calamity-hit areas, for example, in the aftermath of an earthquake, could also be gained through the use of such systems. 

The responsibility of implementing this vision rests not only with the companies that develop UAVs, but also with government bodies that should utilise drones to improve their image and efficiency. After all, drones are not exclusively killing machines.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/drones-made-in-pakistan

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## Barrett

*A large variety of UAVs are manufactured by Integrated Dynamics at the facility in Karachi. *



*The Tornado is a target and decoy UAV with a range of over 200 kilometres. It can reach speeds of up to 300 knots and can emit false radar signals to confuse enemy air defences.*



*The Shadow is also a surveillance UAV that has a speed of over 200 kilometres per hour and can operate within a 200-kilometre range.*



*The Rover is a civilian UAV typically used for electronic news gathering and rapid information relay. *



*The Nishan MK-II is seen here against the backdrop of Shadow and Explorer UAVs. The Nishan has a wingspan of over 9 feet and is considered a high-speed aerial target or decoy. Its range is limited to 35 kilometres.*



*The explorer is one of the two advanced civilian UAV systems offered by Integrated Dynamics. It has a 20-kilometre range and is equipped with sensors suited for scientific research programmes.*



*The Border Eagle is a surveillance UAV that comes equipped with both a still and video camera along with a chemical monitoring module.*



*Integrated Dynamics also features ground station units that are used in combination with the UAV systems. *

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## PAFAce

> &#8216;If you ask anyone in Pakistan involved in the business of making unmanned UAVs whether something similar to the Predator drone aircraft can be made, the answer would be yes,' explains Khan. '*I won&#8217;t say we can make it overnight or by tomorrow. But I won&#8217;t say either that it is a matter of decades. I would say that, if given the task, we can make such aircrafts in a few years.*' As a technologist, Khan is hesitant to speculate as to why the Pakistan government or armed forces are not investing in home-made technology. 'I think you need to ask the policy makers that.'


Smart man, Mr Khan. I've been saying for a while now, we can have an indigenous UCAV system undergoing IoC within 3 years. Maybe not the Reaper, but something that would do well for us.

As for the other point. Companies can't expect the Armed Forces to come to them and induct untested vehicles from relatively less experienced companies. They would have to market their UAVs to, say, the police and other law enforcement, maybe even security firms, before they take their ideas to the Armed Forces. Only then can you expect serious interest from the Armed Forces.


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## Arsalan

PAFAce said:


> Smart man, Mr Khan. I've been saying for a while now, we can have an indigenous UCAV system undergoing IoC within 3 years. Maybe not the Reaper, but something that would do well for us.
> 
> As for the other point. Companies can't expect the Armed Forces to come to them and induct untested vehicles from relatively less experienced companies. They would have to market their UAVs to, say, the police and other law enforcement, maybe even security firms, before they take their ideas to the Armed Forces. Only then can you expect serious interest from the Armed Forces.




to add more to this NESCOM has been reported to be developing a guided air launched missile that is much lighter in weight as compared to air launched baktar shikan missiles and one good reason to develop this thing is to use them in UCAVs. all in all it all seems to be steps in right direction.

regards!

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## wild peace

arsalanaslam123 said:


> to add more to this NESCOM has been reported to be developing a guided air launched missile that is much lighter in weight as compared to air launched baktar shikan missiles and one good reason to develop this thing is to use them in UCAVs. all in all it all seems to be steps in right direction.
> 
> regards!



I have information that it is going to be tasted in this month before 15 December INSHALLAH.


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## mean_bird

arsalanaslam123 said:


> to add more to this NESCOM has been reported to be developing a guided air launched missile that is much lighter in weight as compared to air launched baktar shikan missiles and one good reason to develop this thing is to use them in UCAVs. all in all it all seems to be steps in right direction.
> 
> regards!



To add even further to this, I quote from the article I posted on the previous page.

"*Burraq is the country's latest domestically produced UAV, is based on the Falco-Selex Galileo technology and is believed to be intended as the Pakistan's main equivalent to the American Predator.
*
"*PAC engineers have been working on the first UAV project of the country for two years*," according to a report published on the aviation industry Flightglobal website in August. *Pakistan is also reported to be flight-testing the Burraq*, named for a winged-horse type creature in Islamic tradition. The *Burraq is to be equipped with National Engineering and Scientific Commission (or NESCom) designed laser designator and laser-guided missiles. **Unlike the Falco, Burraq will be able to attack and destroy targets.
*

Pakistan has now virtually become a member of the club of countries manufacturing drones."




PAFAce said:


> As for the other point. Companies can't expect the Armed Forces to come to them and induct untested vehicles from relatively less experienced companies. They would have to market their UAVs to, say, the police and other law enforcement, maybe even security firms, before they take their ideas to the Armed Forces. Only then can you expect serious interest from the Armed Forces.



I beg to differ on this. Armed forces should work together with private companies to improve things and go towards fully indigenous products. Its not like a company develops F-22 and USAF buys from it. The govt./DoD/Armed Forces (should) interact with such private companies, ask for proposals and in some cases actually fund the R&D. 

The police do not use UAVs neither will such a version include missiles and LDpods even if it did and you cannot market these things to the general public. No company would fund such a project unless it sees profit coming out of it and the only possibly commercial project could be building RC models for the local market. Hardly enough hi-tech to start making Reapers and Predators.


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## Windjammer




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## mughaljee

I saw a news at tv, that, 

Pakistan & China are working Drone planes *(collaboration)*
reported by Minister of Defence Qayyoum Jatoie.

Share comments please.
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## jawadqamar

*Pakistan working on new UAV with Chinese collaboration *



Federal Minister for Defence Production Abdul Qayyum has said that Pakistan has indigenously developed drones and* is working in collaboration with China on more capable UAV. *He said while talking to media on the occasion of inauguration of the construction work of first F-22 P Frigate for Pakistan Navy, at Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW) today.


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## deathfromabove

EDIT: Double post


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## Arsalan

well watch this, i hope it will yeild something informative:






regards!

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## Arsalan

Pakistan Spy Drone UQAB:






well i hope you will like this one!!!

regards!!


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## Arsalan

another vedio from its flight testing. the vedio is not of very good quality but still with images from on board camera it is worth watching. you can imagin the speed with which the UAV is moving and the clewarith of terrain underneath.
i hope you will enjoy this one:






regards!


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## ice_man

i don't understand why we need FALCOs when we have UQAAB....predators would have made sense because they are armed but uqaab & falco's are more or less the same thing aren't they....


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## Arsalan

ice_man said:


> i don't understand why we need FALCOs when we have UQAAB....predators would have made sense because they are armed but uqaab & falco's are more or less the same thing aren't they....



Falco is a bigger bird with a better engine. both these things are essential to arm a UAV with weapons. the Falco deal is bound to work wonders for Pakistan military as the engine can help in improving Uqab and thus it can be fitted with the missiles being developed by NESCOM.
i hope you understand the point!

regards!

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## TaimiKhan

ice_man said:


> i don't understand why we need FALCOs when we have UQAAB....predators would have made sense because they are armed but uqaab & falco's are more or less the same thing aren't they....



Falco is basically as Arsalan said better then Uqab in performance criteria. 

Also, Falco has been procured by PAF for its use, while Uqab is kind of a battle field reconnaissance drone, which would be used by PA. 

So both have different users and functions.


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## Kompromat




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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat




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## mughaljee




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## ice_man

@Arsalan & taimiimkhan

thank you both for the explanation but i got one last question...if we are procuring FALCO & making uqaab why are we selling drones to ITALY & other nations what are those drones in similar to uqaab? here is the link...thanks 

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Drones: Made in Pakistan


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## TaimiKhan

ice_man said:


> @Arsalan & taimiimkhan
> 
> thank you both for the explanation but i got one last question...if we are procuring FALCO & making uqaab why are we selling drones to ITALY & other nations what are those drones in similar to uqaab? here is the link...thanks
> 
> DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Drones: Made in Pakistan



Check this link, would be much cleared to you, what the article means. 

Plus, browse the website too, this is a private pakistani manufacturer of UAVs. 

INTEGRATED DYNAMICS :: News Updates

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## mean_bird

ice_man said:


> @Arsalan & taimiimkhan
> 
> thank you both for the explanation but i got one last question...if we are procuring FALCO & making uqaab why are we selling drones to ITALY & other nations what are those drones in similar to uqaab? here is the link...thanks
> 
> DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Drones: Made in Pakistan



Falco is being purchased because it is bigger, uses more sophisticated technology and especially has a better engine. That is why it is purchased with ToT, hence enabling us to move towards next generation of UAVs. While Falco itself is not armed, we are going to use the technology from it to arm others or maybe Falco itself in future.

Regarding pakistani made UAVs being exported, the reason is because they are cheaper. We export them even to the US that uses it for border patrol. Ofcourse they can produce it there , but its cheaper for them to import from pakistan. There are even those that just import the airframe and put their own equipment like camera and some that import the whole package. But basic reason is we produce them cheaper and the quality is comparable for the intended job.


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## air marshal

*Pakistans indigenous Preadator drones*
January 17, 2010

Pakistan has made huge strides in the development of its UAVsMukhbir, Uqqab, Jasoos, Ubaabeel and others. Pakistani made UAVs: Uqaab & Jasoos. Up to now the technology was used purely for reconissance purposes, however since 2001, there is an empetus to emulate Predator and Reaper type of drones which has fire missiles and elimiante the targets without the effort of flyingfighter jets. Pakistan is very close on building its own Predator which will have the ability to carry and use missiles.

The Pakistani UAV Burraq is a Predator equivalent. Pakistani UAC firms are working closely with Italian, Chinese and Turkish firmsall of whichwork with Isreali technology, borrowed heavily from American products. The recent Turkish-israeli deal will help Turkey develop the next generation of Turkish drones. Pakistans indigenous UAVs: Uqaab, Jasoos, Mukhbar & Burraq ANKARA  Turkey and Israel appear to be on track to finalise a long delayed multi-million-dollar deal for the delivery of 10 drone aircraft for the Turkish air force, a Turkish official said Friday.

The project, launched in 2005, was under threat of cancellation amid delays and rising tensions between the two countries over Israels devastating offensive in the Gaza Strip last year.

Turkish experts are currently in Israel to test the drones, the defence ministry official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

Should the systems pass the tests, six aircraft will be brought to Turkeys southeastern province of Batman, on the border with Iraq, for further tests, the official added.

If there are no problems, we will take the drones. We expect the delivery to take place in the first six months of this year, he said.

The announcement came ahead of a visit by Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak to Turkey on Sunday for talks on mending battered ties following the latest diplomatic row.

On Wednesday Israel was forced to apologise after Ankara hreataned to withdraw its ambassador over Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalons public dressing down of the envoy.

The drone project had been expected to be completed in the second half of 2009, but it was delayed by technical problems, forcing Turkey to give the two contractors  Israel Aerospace Industries and Elbit  a deadline until early 2010 and threaten to cancel the tender.

Last week, Defence Minister Vecdi Gönül said that negotations were under way on the compensation the Israeli companies would pay for the delay, but refused to give a figure.

Media reports have suggested that the compensation could be somewhere around 12 million dollars (8.2 million euros).

The drone contract was part of an 185-million-dollar project that involved the manufacture of 10 aircraft, surveillance equipment and ground control stations, with Turkish firms providing sub-systems and services.

Under a 1996 military cooperation deal, Turkish-Israeli ties have flourished greatly until last year when the two countries fell out about Ankaras almost daily criticism of the Jewish state over the Gaza war. Turkey, Israel on track to close drone deal: official (AFP).

When the war on terror began, Pakistan requested predator drones for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) so that the Pakistanis could monitor the 2500 kilometer long Durand Line. The request was refused. Pakistan also requested helicopters, and asked the USA to launch a satellite for Pakistan. The requests fell on deaf ears. Pakistan also requested 80,000 M-16s or Klashnikovs for the Frontier Corps who are still using WW2 vintage rifles. The guns have still not arrived. However Pakistan was asked to Do More.

Pakistan as a Major Non-Nato Ally (MNNA) and a founding member of SEATO and CENTO has not been given a single Predator or Reaper. Pakistan has an indigenous UAV capacity, but its drones cannot fire armaments. At present the laser guided technology helps it to identify targets and then relay that information to a helicopter gunship or a plane. Islamabad is in desperate need of UAV which can fire at the target. Need predicates development, and necessity is the mother of 

invention. It is like being under sanction. Pakistan was under sanctions when it designed and built the JF-17 Thunder with the Chinese. Now the latest UAVis being built with Turkish and Chinese help. Pakistans latest UAV is called the Burraq named after a mythical flying horse.

ISLAMABAD  After years of watching U.S. drones operate along its Afghan border, Pakistan is working on its own Predator-like unmanned aerial vehicle to undertake the same mission, sources here said. The sources said the countrys air force and government-owned defense conglomerate, the National Engineering and Scientific Commission, are flight-testing a new-design aircraft to be equipped with a NESCom-designed laser designator and laser-guided missiles. 

The Burraq UAV is named for a winged horse creature in Islamic tradition, similar to Pegasus.

According to local news reports, Pakistan is focusing its unmanned aircraft efforts on upgrading various older UAVs with Chinese help. But the sources note that no domestically produced UAVis large enough to heft both a missile and a targeting system. The militarys most capable UAV is the air forces Selex Galileo Falco, which can laser-designate targets for other platforms but cannot deliver munitions.

Officials with the Ministry of Defence and Ministry of Defence Production here refused to confirm or deny the programs existence. A spokesman for the militarys Inter Services Public Relations said it was not ready to give a statement on the issue at this time. One former air force officer said the notion of a Pakistan-developed hunter-killer UAV is credible. You only have to see our track record, said Kaiser Tufail, a retired air commodore. We have some fantastic achievements in the field of defense.

Tufail said Pakistan needs such a weapon. Anti-terror operations on the frontier require hours and hours of round-the-clock reconnaissance, married with the ability to strike quickly when a target is spotted, he said. Help from China? Analysts were more dubious about Pakistans ability to produce a laser-guided missile, but they noted that help might be found in China or Turkey. Turkey, with whom Pakistan has an agreement to cooperate on UAV development, is seeking an armed UAV, preferably the Predator or MQ-9 Reaper. This UAVmay someday be armed with the UMTAS infrared guided anti-tank missile being developed by the Turkish firm Roketsan to arm the T-129 attack helicopter.

Pakistan could simply produce Chinas new CH-3 unmanned combat air vehicle, or co-produce any number of Chinese components to assemble a unique UCAV, said Richard Fisher, China specialist and senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center in Washington. China has also developed the unique AR-1, a 45-kilogram, laser-guided attack missile, apparently designed specifically for light winged or helicopter UCAVs, he said. Pakistan reported developing armed UAV By Usman Ansari  Staff writer, Saturday May 9, 2009 8:17:26 EDT The Burraq is based on the Falco  SELEX GALILEO technology. We produce information on the Selix Galileo so that an adequate comparision can be made with the Burraq.

The FALCO UAV System is a Medium Altitude Endurance & Tactical UAV designed for optronic and electronic surveillance roles. The basic mission is target detection, localization, identification and designation through its on-board sensors suite which typically include a thermal imager, a color TV Camera and a spotter, or a laser designator.

The best features of the FALCO System include automatic take-off and landing (with STOL performance), fully redundant and fault-tolerant control systems, digital buses and control link equipment, automatic area surveillance modes and near-real-time target image processing.

It really look very mush like the uqab or may be author is citing directly to uqab or if someone can tell they are using the Falco  SELEX GALILEO The Burraq also uses the design if the Pegasus HALE UAV. The information on the Burraq is similar to the information on the Hale.

Until today, the use of unmanned aircraft has been hindered by the sheer size of the wingspan needed to carry the weight of the payload. With payloads often weighing up to 100 kg, the wingspan required would extend to 60 or 70 metres, creating a total weight of as much as 1000 kg. Aircraft with this weight and wingspan will not become operational for the next couple of years due to issues of air traffic control, safety regulations and technological hurdles such as the development of appropriate fuel cell technology.

We bring you Pegasus, an integrated approach to mission-specific payload, aircraft, control systems and data processing technology. By developing a new generation of ultra light and extremely compact remote sensing equipment, we have been able to reduce the aircraft wingspan to just 16 metres and total flying weight to a mere 18 kg. Furthermore, because these aircraft are designed to be raised into place using the same kind of balloon that is used for weather sounding, no airstrips are required and air control regulations do not apply. The aircaft are taken up in an almost vertical position and reach their operational altitude within 90 minutes. Once in place, the solar powered engines are started and the 

aircraft is ready to act on instructions received from ground control. The recorded images are then sent to the central database at the ground station from where they are sent on to the customer. Using highly sophisticated software technology, the data can also be processed and analysed, and delivered in a wide variety of graphical and mapped formats, as required.

Pakistan has been using its own drones which it has been manufacturing for a decade.

Pakistan?s indigenous ?Preadator? drones | Pakistan Daily

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## iPhone

I like the name Burraq. I also have no doubt that we'll make strides in producing our own UCAV, skies have always been our best friends.


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## air marshal

*Pakistan should be equipped with drone technology to take out militants: Haqqani*
January 29, 2010

WASHINGTON: Pakistan would rather have technical expertise with which it can combat militants on its border with Afghanistan than have the U.S. fire missiles into Pakistani territory, Islamabads ambassador in Washington argued in an interview Thursday. 

The government of Pakistan has repeatedly said that we would like to have the capability to be able to identify and take out targets on ground, Ambassador Husain Haqqani told National Public Radio.Pakistan, he stressed, prefers to do everything on the Pakistani side of the border itself. 

And the reason is very simple: We have a military capability in certain areas and in some areas we lack certain technical capabilities and we would like that technical capabilities for ourselves. 

The Pakistanis are committed to fighting militants in the Afghan border region but it is unfair to characterize Pakistan as a base for al-Qaeda-linked elements, since militants straddle both sides of the porous and challenging border, he clarified. 

The radio noted that the Pakistani public opinion against U.S. missile strikes by unmanned drones is high. 

Although the strikes have killed several top militant leaders, civilian casualties have also been claimed. 

Haqqani said the U.S. and Pakistan governments understand the need to deal with those who pose a threat to global peace and security but called for understanding Islamabads concerns on the sensitive issue of drone strikes. 

You must also understand that when you have unmanned aerial vehicles drop missiles, taking out people, and it infuriates public opinion, then obviously the Pakistani government has to stand by Pakistani public opinion. 

I think we have a shared frustration that the Taliban and al-Qaida move between the mountainous regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan and manage to have the support of some of the people living there. Haqqani replied to a question. 

The diplomat also said he believes that whatever the outcome of the war against al-Qaida, the U.S. wont abandon Afghanistan to its own devices the way it did after the defeat of the Soviet Union in the 1980s. 

My understanding from interactions with senior officials in the United States is that the Obama administration does not wish to walk away from Afghanistan, that it understands the cost of doing so and that nobody wants a Central Asian Somalia or a failed state as a legacy, he said. 

After all, they dont want anybody plotting and planning attacks against America sitting in Afghanistan. 

In response to a question about Pakistanis opinion regarding U.S. reputation, ambassador Haqqani replied: 

Look, most Pakistanis, also say, the same opinion polls, where most Pakistanis express reservations about the United States, when asked the question do you want the US to be a friend of Pakistan, they say yes we do. But if there are reservations about the manner of engagement, then that is something we can work upon.

In fact, I consider that my job description. Im trying to find a way in which we can keep American engagement in our region but in a way it finds support of the people of Pakistan and support and sympathy of the people of Afghanistan. 

- Associated Press of Pakistan


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## Faizan Qadri

PRC has the best technology of UAVs. Pakistan should sign a deal wiith Chinese firms to make drones.


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## air marshal




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## air marshal



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## Arsalan

mean_bird said:


> Falco is being purchased because it is bigger, uses more sophisticated technology and especially has a better engine. That is why it is purchased with ToT, hence enabling us to move towards next generation of UAVs. While Falco itself is not armed, we are going to use the technology from it to arm others or maybe Falco itself in future.
> 
> Regarding pakistani made UAVs being exported, the reason is because they are cheaper. We export them even to the US that uses it for border patrol. Ofcourse they can produce it there , but its cheaper for them to import from pakistan. There are even those that just import the airframe and put their own equipment like camera and some that import the whole package. But basic reason is we produce them cheaper and the quality is comparable for the intended job.



exactly what we (Tamim and myself) were trying to point to,,
the high end technology that come along with falco, either in shape of better avionics or powerful engine will help PAFs indegenious UAV and eventually UCAV projects!!



> *Originally Posted by ice_man *
> @Arsalan & taimiimkhan
> 
> thank you both for the explanation but i got one last question...if we are procuring FALCO & making uqaab why are we selling drones to ITALY & other nations what are those drones in similar to uqaab? here is the link...thanks
> 
> DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Drones: Made in Pakistan


Pakistan is currently working on some 8 to 10 indegenious drones projects and there anr atleasst three private firms involved in this business. a key point to remember is that they are not making these birds only for military use but it is also being used in civilian roles like traffic moonitering,, the news you pointed to is aboubt such a deal. i hope you get it now!!

regards!

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## asim.mian10

one off best article i read at this site


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## salman_great16

pakistan zindabad


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## Mani2020

i thnk pakistan is making it in joint venture with china but they are not exposing it ...there are different thngs that Pakistan forces donot want to expose either beacuse of political ustability,terrorism or surprise element

my frnd told me that he know a person who is in army and he get to know throught that person that Babur 2 missile is ready but PA is not test fring it due to terrorism and political unstability

so these factors are effecting Pakistan armed forces alot directly or indirectly


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## razgriz19

for now pak should get some of these....
China plans to export Advanced UAV, carrying with air-surface missiles|China Military Power Mashup


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## mean_bird

We are already developing UCAVs with help from China and turkey. InshaAllah, we will see the results soon.


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## Mani2020

razgriz19 said:


> for now pak should get some of these....
> China plans to export Advanced UAV, carrying with air-surface missiles|China Military Power Mashup



man we already have UAV in service but we need UCAV ( comonly known as drone)


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## Mani2020

mean_bird said:


> We are already developing UCAVs with help from China and turkey. InshaAllah, we will see the results soon.



INSHALLAH we will


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## fatman17

Boeing's Scan Eagle UAV cleared for sale to Pakistan along with the earlier offer of 12 Shadow UAVs !!!

Pakistan had requested the Australians to sell the Scan Eagle's but it required US clearences - looks like the 'pot' has been sweetened !!!


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## fatman17

*US ready to supply UAV ScanEagle to Pakistan: official*

By Sajjad Malik

*ISLAMABAD: The US is ready to provide the unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) ScanEagle to Pakistan to improve its reconnaissance capacity, US Under Secretary of Defence Michele Flournoy said on Tuesday.*

Flournoy was talking to reporters at the end of her two-day visit to Pakistan.

The under secretary&#8217;s comments came ahead of an offer by US Defence Secretary Robert Gates, who earlier announced to provide the UAV Shadow, drawing criticism from local media who said the technology was obsolete.

Flournoy said the US wanted to build a strategic partnership with Pakistan and discussed ways to develop new relations. She said the US was offering support to Pakistan in various sectors to help it overcome its problems.

She acknowledged the existence of a trust deficit between the two countries, but hoped the two sides would succeed in bridging gaps by working closely. 

&#8220;Our action will 
speak louder than words 
and by helping Pakistan 
and its people, we will be able to overcome the anti-American sentiments here. But it will take some time,&#8221; she added.

*The under secretary said the US was providing F-16 aircraft to Pakistan and had set up the Counterinsurgency Capacity Building Fund worth $1 billion for the country. She said the US had also provided over $7 billion from the Coalition Support Fund to the country since the war on terror began in 2001.*

She said the release of more aid under the fund had been delayed owing to delay in issuance of visas to the US embassy staff, adding that the funds would be provided once this issue was resolved.


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## DANGER-ZONE

*SO THIS IS WHAT THAY CALL "SCAN EAGLE" *
















it seems to me another TOY from uncle SAM so we play well.

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## fatman17

well the PA is very interested in it - it must be effective - remember the 'smaller' the size, the less the 'detection'

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## TaimiKhan

fatman17 said:


> well the PA is very interested in it - it must be effective - remember the 'smaller' the size, the less the 'detection'



I remember hearing reports of Pakistan's interest in this UAV long time back and requested Australia for the required info of this UAV, i believe they even tested it also. But Boeing being a partner in this program, US approval was required as this UAV is a joint venture between two companies. 

My assessment is, it would be used for battlefield assessment kind of role, just like the Luna, though its endurance is great but only the newer versions are being equipped with night observations functions, thus it may not be good for 24 hr surveillance role, rather as a battlefield surveying role by the PA.

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## mughaljee

If this Scan Eagle is better, comparing to our UAV which we are producing/manufacturing right now.
Then in which way.? 
What kind of benefit we can get after receiving this.?


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## TaimiKhan

mughaljee said:


> If this Scan Eagle is better, comparing to our UAV which we are producing/manufacturing right now.
> Then in which way.?
> What kind of benefit we can get after receiving this.?



I believe we don't have a UAV program in the category of Luna, Scan Eagle type UAVs. So that is why we are acquiring them, the tactical ones, like the Uqab, Falco have other roles, such type of vehicles can be launched very close to the battle field and recovered without need for landing strips. 

And their technology is much superior compared to the ones we have for such category.


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## SEAL

Scan Eagle cruise video it spotted "Whale" in the sea.


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## mughaljee

taimikhan said:


> I believe we don't have a UAV program in the category of Luna, Scan Eagle type UAVs.


Sir, 
Will you explain ^ briefly.
always regards.


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## truepakistani17

mughaljee said:


> Sir,
> Will you explain ^ briefly.
> always regards.



we are not working on projects to make indegenious UAV with such high tech capabilities of reccon missions. these UAVs are meant to silently keep an eye on enemy movements over extended periods of time. what we are working on and are more intrested in are UCAVs. it is a sure thing that pakistan is working on an armed UCAV and therefore for high tech reccon missions, these scan eagles and shadow drones can be helpful!

am i right sir taimikhan??
thanks!

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## TaimiKhan

mughaljee said:


> Sir,
> Will you explain ^ briefly.
> always regards.



Well see, the falco UAV is a big UAV, it needs air strip to be launched and recovered. Similarly, the Uqab UAV also needs the same procedure and they come kind of in the tactical UAV definition, both having the 200+ KM ranges or 300KM range. 

The Luna UAV and the Scan Eagle both Bungee catapult launched UAVs come into the approx 100KM range, and if you see the below pics, both are man portable also, meaning can easily be carried by a single person. These UAVs can be launched within or very close to the battlefield, do their surveillance and then be back, without any problem related to airstrips. These UAVs best for the formations within the field, who need very quick surveillance capability, like in Waziristan or anywhere in FATA, where the formations in the battlefield can launch it, get the surveillance and act as per the data, for Falco & UAV they will have to wait for them to take off most probably somewhere far away, then wait for it to come above the area, and the GCS would also be far away, may be the field formations are not able to have live pictures. 

So these UAVs are unique in this sense, and I have not seen any Pakistani UAV in production to have this capability, the lightness, man portability, bungee catapult launching and recovery with different systems for both UAVs, Luna and Scan Eagle.

Here is the COAS visiting the launching of Luna UAV.






Just see below the size of both these UAVs, very small.

See the size of Luna:







And Scan Eagle:






Launch and capture of Scan Eagle UAV

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## TaimiKhan

truepakistani17 said:


> we are not working on projects to make indegenious UAV with such high tech capabilities of reccon missions. these UAVs are meant to silently keep an eye on enemy movements over extended periods of time. what we are working on and are more intrested in are UCAVs. it is a sure thing that pakistan is working on an armed UCAV and therefore for high tech reccon missions, these scan eagles and shadow drones can be helpful!
> 
> am i right sir taimikhan??
> thanks!



Kind of right, but we are working on both simple UAV and UCAVs. 

Problem is, UAVs have different categories as per the performance required. 

I believe my above post will clarify the roles which are assigned to different UAVs. 

These UAVs, the Scan Eagle and Luna type are perfect options for brigade size or even for a unit size formations, as they can have their own independent reconnaissance capability without relying or depending on the bigger sized UAV of the Uqab or Falco nature. These Uqab & falco UAVs are good for deep reconnaissance, while the Scan Eagle and Luna are for battlefield meaning the first few kilometers inside the enemy territory or right above the battle field. 

In Afghanistan, even company strength smaller detachments have their own reconnaissance capability, thus if they are under fire or need regular update of the surrounding, they can launch it, see around and recover the UAV, without asking the bigger platforms hundreds of miles away from the forward poss. 

Thus these UAVs are excellent for us, they can look after militant activity, protect convoys from any expected ambushes, mortar fire, artillery fire, planning of any assault in the hilly terrain etc etc without the need for relying on the PAF Falcos or higher level PA UAVs, the brigades in the field can do whatever they want with them, whenever.

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## fatman17

ASIA PACIFIC 
Date Posted: 17-Feb-2010 


*Jane's Defence Weekly *

*Pakistan calls for UAV technology from US*

Jon Grevatt Jane's Asia-Pacific Industry Reporter

*Pakistan has urged the US to approve the transfer of advanced technologies related to unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), the Pakistani government has announced. *

Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani made the plea during the visit of Senator John Kerry, chairman of the US Senate's Foreign Relations Committee, on 16 February. 

A government statement said that Gilani had told Kerry in meetings that the two countries "should agree at a joint strategy, under which drone technologies would be transferred to Pakistan". 

According to the statement, Gilani said that such a move would help "improve perceptions attached to the US image in [Pakistan]" and would also "create an environment for Pakistan to take the ownership of the use of the drones". 

*Jane's reported in December 2009 that Washington was considering a request from Islamabad to supply 12 RQ-7 Shadow UAVs in a bid to supply Pakistan with its own intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) assets.* 

*The UAVs would be funded through the Pakistan Counterinsurgency Capability Fund (PCCF). The PCCF was established in 2009 and provides USD2.8 billion to Pakistan over five years in an effort to build a counter-insurgency capability. *

Despite being in receipt of several billions of dollars in military aid since 2001, Pakistan has not usually been offered high levels of technology transfer on US procurements. 

*For example, Pakistan's purchase of F-16 aircraft in 2006 was delayed due to negotiations over some of the clauses that the US government put in place regarding the transfer of technology. The US Department of State added a number of conditions to the F-16 sale following the concerns of US Congress that fighter aircraft technologies might fall into the hands of other countries.*

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## mean_bird

*Pak to build drones soon with US help: Mukhtar*​
GUJRAT: Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar ruled out the possibility of stopping drone attacks, but added that *Pakistan will soon begin manufacturing drone planes with the US assistance.* 

The Defence Minister was talking to media in Gujrat on Saturday.

*********​
Few days ago, he was telling us we will be manufacturing drones with help of China? before that with help of Turkey?


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## Kompromat

mean_bird said:


> *Pak to build drones soon with US help: Mukhtar*​
> GUJRAT: Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar ruled out the possibility of stopping drone attacks, but added that *Pakistan will soon begin manufacturing drone planes with the US assistance.*
> 
> The Defence Minister was talking to media in Gujrat on Saturday.
> 
> *********​
> Few days ago, he was telling us we will be manufacturing drones with help of China? before that with help of Turkey?



I think he does not really know what a Drone stands for.

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## jawadqamar

Pak to build drones soon with US help: Mukhtar

GUJRAT: Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar ruled out the possibility of stopping drone attacks, but added that Pakistan will soon begin manufacturing drone planes with the US assistance.

The Defence Minister was talking to media in Gujrat on Saturday.

He said PML-N Chief Nawaz Sharif sometimes declares government a threat for democracy while on others calls President Zardari a danger for democratic process. &#8220;If democracy is derailed, it will only benefit non-democratic forces,&#8221; he added.

Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar said the Prime Minister has properly resolved the issue of judges appointment and he (PM) is boldly tackling all the challenges.

He urged that the people who do not comprehend the Constitution should abstain themselves from interpreting it.

The Defence Minister said that Pakistan is wants better relations with India.


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## mughaljee

Black blood said:


> I think he does not really know what a Drone stands for.


quite right.


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## Mani2020

mean_bird said:


> *Pak to build drones soon with US help: Mukhtar*​
> Few days ago, he was telling us we will be manufacturing drones with help of China? before that with help of Turkey?




he also said few weeks back that Pakistan has the drone technology and we can made it indeginously without any foreign assistance lol i thnk he is gone nuts after the success of drones i guess he is seeing drones in everythng and evrywhere


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## Arsalan

> Pak to build drones soon with US help: Mukhtar



with US help..????
well i have searched for and inquired into this mattter and could not find any hint of assistance from US in this field!!
i guess it is just false statement!!

regards!


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## Mani2020

arsalanaslam123 said:


> with US help..????
> well i have searched for and inquired into this mattter and could not find any hint of assistance from US in this field!!
> i guess it is just false statement!!
> 
> regards!



may b this statement was just to terrorise indians lol


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## Wingman

jawadqamar said:


> Pak to build drones soon with US help: Mukhtar
> 
> GUJRAT: Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar ruled out the possibility of stopping drone attacks, but added that Pakistan will soon begin manufacturing drone planes with the US assistance.
> 
> The Defence Minister was talking to media in Gujrat on Saturday.
> 
> He said PML-N Chief Nawaz Sharif sometimes declares government a threat for democracy while on others calls President Zardari a danger for democratic process. If democracy is derailed, it will only benefit non-democratic forces, he added.
> 
> Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar said the Prime Minister has properly resolved the issue of judges appointment and he (PM) is boldly tackling all the challenges.
> 
> He urged that the people who do not comprehend the Constitution should abstain themselves from interpreting it.
> 
> The Defence Minister said that Pakistan is wants better relations with India.



Shukar Hai is ko (Ahmed Mukhtar) bhee pata laga kai ye defence Minister hai


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## ice_man

@fatman

*For example, Pakistan's purchase of F-16 aircraft in 2006 was delayed due to negotiations over some of the clauses that the US government put in place regarding the transfer of technology. The US Department of State added a number of conditions to the F-16 sale following the concerns of US Congress that fighter aircraft technologies might fall into the hands of other countries.*

so the rumors were true!! so much for the "NO STRINGS ATTACHED" USA is our ally theory...if they love us so much and we are a non nato ally then why are we strip searched at their airports!!!! 

sorry mods back to topic couldn't resist! but yes the kill switch theory could just be true given the fact that they had "concerns" about ToT


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## fatman17

DATE:18/02/10

SOURCE:Flight International

*Selex Galileo parks enhanced Falco UAV *

By Rob Coppinger

Selex Galileo has put on hold an enhanced version of its Falco unmanned air vehicle, called the Evolution (Evo). It is focusing instead on an all-weather imaging, communications and signals intelligence-capable variant that is designed for African, Asian and Middle Eastern customers.

In 2009 Selex conducted a Falco demonstration flight in an unnamed Middle Eastern location for more than 12h and another in an unidentified North African country that lasted for over 14h. *The company has previously said that it hopes to sell the type to Libya. An Asian country - widely known to be Pakistan - is the launch customer for the Falco*.

Selex says that it "collated interest" in the all-weather imagery and communications intelligence variant last year, and confirms that this would also have increased endurance available as a future retrofit option.

The Italian manufacturer was to test fly the Evo, with its longer booms, wider 14m (45.9ft) wingspan and payload increase from 70kg (154lb) to 120kg, this year. "Further development of the Falco Evo depends on current negotiations, as we already have all the development plans and know how to move ahead," it says.

In December Selex announced that it had completed full envelope testing of the Falco. This includes the use of electro-optical and synthetic aperture radar sensors, including the company's active electronically scanned array PicoSAR design, plus a smaller SAR package with a ground moving target indication capability.


&#169; Selex Galileo

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Mani2020

A larger variant, capable of carrying larger payloads and designated Falco Evo, is in development. *The Falco UAV is not capable of deploying weapons such as guided missiles and bombs, but the Falco Evo is expected to do so.*


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## Creder

Is there any other news for any UCAV procurements ? Possibly the WZ-2000 ?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Creder try Burraq or TIHA MALE with turkey...You wont be disapointed


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## Creder

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Creder try Burraq or TIHA MALE with turkey...You wont be disapointed



Sir they are UAV's, i was talking about combat UCAV's


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Creder said:


> Sir they are UAV's, i was talking about combat UCAV's



*Actually ur wrong they are MALE UCAVs under development*.
We already have UAV projects like Bravo,jasoos,Huma,border eagle,Falco etc


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## Barrett

I guess he wanted to say 

*Pak will build drones soon "if" US helps.*


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## Creder

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> *Actually ur wrong they are MALE UCAVs under development*.
> We already have UAV projects like Bravo,jasoos,Huma,border eagle,Falco etc



Yes you are right as per wikipedia it will carry 4 x ROKETSAN developed CIRIT 78mm semi-active laser missiles


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## Mani2020

Burraq is a new unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV) currently under development by the Pakistan Air Force and NESCOM, a Pakistani military research and development organisation. The name Burraq (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1615;&#1585;&#1575;&#1602;&#8206; al-Bur&#257;q "lightning") refers to a mythological winged steed, described as a creature from the heavens which transported the Prophets.

In May 2009 the Burraq UCAV was reported to be undergoing flight testing and would be armed with a new laser-guided air-to-surface missile and laser designator, also designed by NESCOM.


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## hassan1

can some one have the image of burraq ucav


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## Arsalan

hassan1 said:


> can some one have the image of burraq ucav



bro it pics are not available as yet, it is in development stage...

you can spare some time and go through:
Pakistan&#8217;s indigenous UAVs: Uqaab, Jasoos, Mukhbar & Burraq Rupee News
it will be helpfull!

regards!


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## fatman17

ice_man said:


> @fatman
> 
> *For example, Pakistan's purchase of F-16 aircraft in 2006 was delayed due to negotiations over some of the clauses that the US government put in place regarding the transfer of technology. The US Department of State added a number of conditions to the F-16 sale following the concerns of US Congress that fighter aircraft technologies might fall into the hands of other countries.*
> 
> so the rumors were true!! so much for the "NO STRINGS ATTACHED" USA is our ally theory...if they love us so much and we are a non nato ally then why are we strip searched at their airports!!!!
> 
> sorry mods back to topic couldn't resist! but yes the kill switch theory could just be true given the fact that they had "concerns" about ToT



these conditions r related to physical monitoring, verification of related equipment like pods, missiles and prior intimation if the a/c have to leave the country on a visit or excercise with other nations.

these conditions are not new they have been there since day-1 when pakistan opted to receive american arms.


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## air marshal

*From Dolphins to Destroyers: The ScanEagle UAV*
February 28, 2010

ScanEagles base Insight UAV platform was originally developed by Washington States Insitu, Inc. to track dolphins and tuna from fishing boats, in order to ensure that the fish you buy in supermarkets is dolphin-safe. 

It turns out that the same characteristics needed by fishing boats (able to handle the salt-water environment, low infrastructure launch and recovery, small size, 20-hour long endurance, automated flight patterns) are equally important for naval operations from larger vessels, and for battlefield surveillance. 

A partnership with Boeing took ScanEagle to market in those fields, and the design is carving out a market-leading position in its niche.

This article covers recent developments with the ScanEagle UAV system, which is quickly evolving into a mainstay with the US Navy  and others as well.

From Dolphins to Destroyers: The ScanEagle UAV


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## DaRk WaVe

*ScanEagle Proves Worth in Fallujah Fight​*




FALLUJAH, Iraq, Jan. 11, 2005 &#8211; FALLUJAH, Iraq, Jan. 11, 2005 &#8211; It's called ScanEagle, and it has already saved the lives of many Marines.
ScanEagle is an unmanned aerial vehicle that the Marines used during Operation Al Fajr, the coalition operation to remove insurgents from this city. 

The ScanEagle system, developed by Boeing and the Insitu Group of Bingen, Wash., had its baptism of fire during some of the heaviest urban combat Marines have been involved in since Hue City in Vietnam in 1968. The UAV performed flawlessly, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force officials said today. 

ScanEagle is a relatively low-cost UAV at $100,000 a copy. But its real worth was giving Marines in Fallujah a real-time picture of the enemy and helping them close with and kill insurgents without becoming casualties. 

Driven by a small propeller, the aircraft can stay airborne for 19 hours on just a gallon and a half of gas. 

It is a "launch-and-forget" system. A catapult launches the 40-pound aircraft, and a computer operator just clicks the cursor over the area of interest. The aircraft operates autonomously. 

The cameras -- either for day or night -- have enough definition to identify individuals and show if they are carrying weapons. "This was a true advantage for us during the operation," said Marine Col. John Coleman, chief of staff for the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force. The rules of engagement were such that Marines could not engage unless they were sure the proposed target was carrying a weapon or intent on harming coalition forces. 

ScanEagle enabled commanders to ascertain targets and provided specific coordinates via the Global Positioning System. 

The system can also track moving targets. ScanEagle gives commanders at several different levels real-time video. With the explosive growth of using the Web in warfare, commanders many miles away can direct the system. 

All of this is not bad for a system designed to find tuna fish. Insitu developed the aircraft to be launched and recovered by tuna boats. Fishermen would use the UAV to spot schools of tuna. 

When the Marines needed another UAV system, they contracted with Boeing in June 2004 for ScanEagle and the contractors to run it. Four Boeing employees answered the call, and ScanEagles were soon flying missions over the most dangerous city in Iraq. 

The UAV is small and tough to see, said Marine officials. The contractors put the mufflers pointing up so that the enemy couldn't track the aircraft by sound. The Marines operate the aircraft at a very low altitude and lost only one to enemy fire during the weeks of intelligence gathering leading up to Operation Al Fajr. 

The Marines already use the Pioneer UAV and have access to other UAV information. The ScanEagle has a small footprint. Manning for the system is small, and all the system needs to operate can be carried in four Humvees. 

The Pioneer, one of the oldest UAVs in the inventory, needs a runway to operate from and several C-130s to transport the system. And it requires 120 people to operate it. 

Marine officials are impressed with the ScanEagle system, and have shown the system's capabilities to Army, Navy and Air Force officials. 

Marine officials do not know the true extent of the system's use. "You never really know until the Marines push the capabilities," Coleman said. "Our young Marines are the experts. They know what they need, and they have the knowledge to try new methods and stretch the capabilities of most pieces of equipment."

Defense.gov News Article: ScanEagle Proves Worth in Fallujah Fight


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## Arsalan

the Scan eagles are only good for us as far as they are comming for free.
what we need are bigger UAV with better and powerfull engines so that there expereinces can be used in development of indegenious UCAV. Scan eagle is a type of battle feild UAV and is small in size!!
here is an article about the UAV from *Boeing* websit, the *manufacturer of Scan Eagle*



> *Boeing and The Insitu Group have developed and built a low-cost, long-endurance autonomous unmanned vehicle, called ScanEagle. ScanEagle is based on Insitu's Seascan miniature robotic aircraft and draws on Boeing's systems integration, communications and payload technologies. *
> Boeing foresees customers using ScanEagle vehicles individually or in groups to loiter over trouble spots and provide intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) data or communications relay. As standard payload ScanEagle carries either an inertially stabilized electro-optical or an infrared camera. The gimbaled camera allows the operator to easily track both stationary and moving targets, providing real-time intelligence. Capable of flying above 16,000 feet, the UAV has also demonstrated the ability to provide persistent low-altitude reconnaissance.
> 
> In April 2005, Boeing received a $14.5 million contract from the Navy for unmanned aerial vehicle services in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom and the Global War on Terror. Boeing is providing ScanEagle UAVs, communication links and ground equipment for Naval Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG) and oil platform security in the Persian Gulf. The Navy awarded Boeing a $13 million contract modification in September 2005 to provide ScanEagle system support for Navy high-speed vessels and an afloat forward staging base as well.
> 
> The UAV's unique ISR and long-endurance capabilities provide the Navy with real-time intelligence and situational awareness. For ESG missions, ScanEagle is ship-launched and recovered. Since being deployed with the Navy in July, ScanEagle already has surpassed 900 flight hours.
> 
> Boeing's Navy contract followed on the heels of a U.S. Marine Corps contract signed in June 2004 to provide two ScanEagle mobile deployment units for use with the First Marine Expeditionary Force in Iraq.
> 
> With 10,000 combat flight hours under its belt to date, ScanEagle has demonstrated that it is a valuable net-centric system that can provide real-time information to those who need it. ScanEagle's imagery allows tactical commanders to develop a clearer picture of the battlefield, which in the end has resulted in improved situational awareness and saved lives.
> 
> The ScanEagle system also has been used to support the UK Ministry of Defence's Joint UAV Experimentation Programme (JUEP), through an industry team that includes Thales, QinetiQ and Boeing. During trials conducted off the coast of Scotland, team JUEP successfully controlled ScanEagle flights from a Royal Navy warship, which was a UK-first. Proving its ability to support maritime operations and land reconnaissance, ScanEagle was launched from land and then handed over to the ship-based control station.
> 
> For a vehicle of its size, ScanEagle's endurance/payload combination is unmatched. The UAV -- four-feet long with a 10-foot wingspan -- can remain on station for more than 15 hours. Planned variants will have an endurance of more than 30 hours.
> 
> Another key design feature of ScanEagle is its internal avionics bay. The avionics bay allows seamless integration of new payloads and sensors to meet emerging customer requirements, and ensures the vehicle will be able to incorporate the latest technology as it becomes available.
> 
> In December 2004, ScanEagle demonstrated high-speed wireless communications relay during a flight at the Boeing Boardman test range. Enabled by Harris Corporation's National Security Agency-approved Type 1 classified Sec-Net-11 Plus technology in its avionics bay, streaming video and voice-over IP communication was sent from a ground control station over a secure high-bandwidth network to ScanEagle 18 miles away. The data was then instantaneously relayed to ground personnel six miles from the UAV. The flight demonstrated the capability for troops on the ground to receive critical information and situational awareness in a secure environment, key elements in creating a network centric battlefield.
> 
> ScanEagle is launched autonomously via a pneumatic wedge catapult launcher and flies pre-programmed or operator-initiated missions guided by GPS and its onboard flight-control system. It is retrieved using a "Skyhook" system in which the UAV catches a rope hanging from a 50-foot high pole. The patented system allows ScanEagle to be runway independent and operate from forward fields, mobile vehicles or small ships.
> 
> In August 2004 ScanEagle completed the longest flight ever recorded by a UAV launched and retrieved at sea -- 16 hours and 45 minutes. During ScanEagle's record-setting flight, it did aerial surveillance of sea conditions and ships in Puget Sound, Wash., waters, demonstrating the type of mission anticipated for shipboard operations. The milestone followed on the heels of another historic ship-based flight and retrieval in April 2004 aboard the same 58-foot fishing boat, Shackleton. The autonomous launch and recovery was a first for fixed-wing UAVs.
> 
> ScanEagle, which made its first flight in 2002, participated in the Joint Forces Command Forward Look exercises, which began in December 2003 and ended in June 2004. The goal was to improve interoperability and increase data fusion among multiple UAVs in operational scenarios. As part of Forward Look, ScanEagle was tasked with providing ISR coverage and time-sensitive targeting to a broad network that included UAVs, ground stations, ships at sea, command centers and other airborne assets. ScanEagle received rave reviews for its performance during the exercises.
> 
> In August 2003, ScanEagle "A" -- the first vehicle in the ScanEagle family -- demonstrated its long-endurance capability when it completed a 15.2-hour flight at the Boeing Boardman test range. The flight confirmed ScanEagle is capable of the long-endurance necessary to complete an array of missions including ISR and communication. The flight was also significant in that it was the first time the test team put two UAVs in the air simultaneously.
> 
> Boeing and The Insitu Group signed a 15-month agreement in February 2002 to develop and build the prototype ScanEagle UAV. In July 2003, the two companies signed a long-term contract that allows them to move into production, while at the same time continue research and development efforts



regards!


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## Arsalan

an other nice article from Defence update website. i have highlighted some of the points of intrest:



> *The ScanEagle Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) is a 40 lbs (18 kg) UAV designed for continuous mission of 15+ hours, cruising at speed of 50 kt at an altitude of 5,000m'. *The system was designed for autonomous field operation. ScanEagle carries a payload of 6 kg, operating at a ceiling of 5,000 m'. It can be launched and retrieved over any terrain, including naval operations.
> 
> The system includes a UAV, a Sky Wedge hydraulic launcher, Sky Hook retrieving system, and mobile ground control element. The UAV is equipped with nose-mounted inertial-stabilized camera turret, designed to track an object of interest for extended periods of time. The gimbal carries either zoom CCD or IR sensor. Maximum level sped is 70 kt. ScanEagle is currently deployed with the US Marine Corps in Iraq, where the system flew over 4000 hours this by July 2005.
> 
> ScanEagle was designed with removable avionics bay and two expansion slots allowing seamless payload integration. An enhanced ScanEagle was introduced by Insitu in August 2006, incorporating a redesigned camera turret, enhanced infrared camera, and Mode C transponder. The camera turret, utilizes the inertially stabilized turret introduced in 2003, but will not require electronic stabilization by software at the ground station. This will enable utilization of images via Rover type systems. The new turret will be able to house larger cameras, which provides more options on payload camera integration.
> 
> In August 2006 Insitu has incorporated various new systems under the These changes are currently included in the Block D upgrades program These include the DRS Technologies E6000 infrared camera, improving the UAV's capabilities from a 320x240 pixel resolution fixed camera with an 18-degree field of view to a 640x480 camera, with an increased resolution that supports a digital zoom view of 7.5 degrees. A new inertially stabilized turret, offering a factor of 5 improvement in disturbance rejection has also been introduced. Custom designed, ultra-light Mode C Transponder, is also becoming a standard issue on the ScanEagle. THis transponder is programmable during flight and, as such, allows the vehicle to become stealthy as necessary even at low altitudes. This capability will help with aircraft deconfliction within Operation Iraqi Freedom but will also enable easier integration of the system into applications within the National Airspace or civilian applications. Other changes include the introduction of video transmitter system, Rover interoperability and in-flight fuel measurement systems as well as a number of improvements for reliability and modularity
> 
> A Block D prototype was recently tested in a basic configuration, flying on a continuous, 22 hour mission. The company also announced cooperation with ImSAR, for the development of a new micro SAR prototype which could be introduced with the ScanEagle in the future.
> 
> The Block D changes incorporate multiple product enhancements including a new improved IR (infrared) camera with a factor of 3 improvement in the resolution; a new inertially stabilized turret with a factor of 5 improvement in disturbance rejection; a custom, ultra-light, Mode C transponder to facilitate airspace deconfliction; new video transmitter system; Rover interoperability; in-flight fuel measurement systems; and numerous improvements for reliability and modularity.
> 
> The ScanEagle Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) is a 40 lbs (18 kg) UAV designed for continuous mission of 15+ hours, cruising at speed of 50 kt at an altitude of 5,000m'. The system was designed for autonomous field operation. ScanEagle carries a payload of 6 kg, operating at a ceiling of 5,000 m'. It can be launched and retrieved over any terrain, including naval operations.
> 
> The system includes a UAV, a Sky Wedge hydraulic launcher, Sky Hook retrieving system, and mobile ground control element. The UAV is equipped with nose-mounted inertial-stabilized camera turret, designed to track an object of interest for extended periods of time. The gimbal carries either zoom CCD or IR sensor. Maximum level sped is 70 kt. ScanEagle is currently deployed with the US Marine Corps in Iraq, where the system flew over 4000 hours this by July 2005.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ScanEagle was designed with removable avionics bay and two expansion slots allowing seamless payload integration. An enhanced ScanEagle was introduced by Insitu in August 2006, incorporating a redesigned camera turret, enhanced infrared camera, and Mode C transponder. The camera turret, utilizes the inertially stabilized turret introduced in 2003, but will not require electronic stabilization by software at the ground station. This will enable utilization of images via Rover type systems. The new turret will be able to house larger cameras, which provides more options on payload camera integration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In August 2006 Insitu has incorporated various new systems under the These changes are currently included in the Block D upgrades program These include the DRS Technologies E6000 infrared camera, improving the UAV's capabilities from a 320x240 pixel resolution fixed camera with an 18-degree field of view to a 640x480 camera, with an increased resolution that supports a digital zoom view of 7.5 degrees. A new inertially stabilized turret, offering a factor of 5 improvement in disturbance rejection has also been introduced. Custom designed, ultra-light Mode C Transponder, is also becoming a standard issue on the ScanEagle. THis transponder is programmable during flight and, as such, allows the vehicle to become stealthy as necessary even at low altitudes. This capability will help with aircraft deconfliction within Operation Iraqi Freedom but will also enable easier integration of the system into applications within the National Airspace or civilian applications. Other changes include the introduction of video transmitter system, Rover interoperability and in-flight fuel measurement systems as well as a number of improvements for reliability and modularity.
> 
> A Block D prototype was recently tested in a basic configuration, flying on a continuous, 22 hour mission. The company also announced cooperation with ImSAR, for the development of a new micro SAR prototype which could be introduced with the ScanEagle in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Block D changes incorporate multiple product enhancements including a new improved IR (infrared) camera with a factor of 3 improvement in the resolution; a new inertially stabilized turret with a factor of 5 improvement in disturbance rejection; a custom, ultra-light, Mode C transponder to facilitate airspace deconfliction; new video transmitter system; Rover interoperability; in-flight fuel measurement systems; and numerous improvements for reliability and modularity.
> 
> In early January 2007 Boeing Australia Limited announced it has been awarded a contract to provide reconnaissance and surveillance services to the Australian Army using the ScanEagle autonomous unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV). The services provided by ScanEagle are currently being used in southern Iraq by Australian soldiers operating with the Overwatch Battle Group (West)-2 in Operation Catalyst. By June 2007, the operation was expanded for six months, to support te Australian troops deployed in Afghanistan under a A$20 million program.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *In February 2007 the ScanEagle UAV system has been qualified to comply with NATO mandated unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) interoperability standard (known as STANAG 4586), establishing common specifications employed in ground station system operating all UAVs used by NATO military forces. STANAG compliance will enable existing and future deployed ScanEagles to be operated with operational ground control stations such as Army One as well as other STANAG qualified systems operated by NATO member nations. The ScanEagle Vehicle Specific Module and Multiple UAV Software Environment ground station were integrated with the Common UAV Control Software package developed by CDL Systems Ltd. employed with the "Army One" ground control station. During the three hour test flight, the ScanEagle team achieved Level 2 for the UAV and sensor system; Level 3 for the onboard electro-optical camera and sensor system; and Level 4 for the UAV and payload control. Further tests employing multiple ScanEagles and ground control stations are scheduled to validate various autonomous functions.*


ScanEagle Unmanned Aerial System

regards!


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## Arsalan

here is a nice vedio of Scan Eagle UAV in US navy, enjoy!!






hope you like it,,

regards!


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## Arsalan

and yes ther is a real nice feature to this UAV, the hook capture. you can catch it by hook bringinf the UAV to immediate stop thus no need of runways. here is an intresting vedio showing Hook Capture:





hope you liked it.

regards!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## NWO

Isn't is possible to just buy the technology from another country? I mean, with the Internet, it shouldn't be too hard. Why can't US just sell some of their older technology to Pakistan?


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## Nishan_101

can any1 post the pic of UAV developed by PAC that flown few days back on Sargoda.


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## mean_bird

*Pakistan operates indigenous drones​*
ISLAMABAD (APP)  Pakistan on Monday conducted successful operation of indigenously developed drone in the area of Sargodha, said Director General ISPR Major General Athar Abbas.

Briefing newsmen on the Azm-e-Nau-3 exercise by Pakistan Army, General Athar said that some of the news channels are airing news regarding the presence of some drones in the air of Sargodha presumably owned by some other country than Pakistan. There is no substance in such news as the drones seen in the air of Sargodha *are indigenously developed by Pakistan*, he said.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DANGER-ZONE

mean_bird said:


> *Pakistan operates indigenous drones​*
> ISLAMABAD (APP)  Pakistan on Monday conducted successful operation of indigenously developed drone in the area of Sargodha, said Director General ISPR Major General Athar Abbas.
> 
> Briefing newsmen on the Azm-e-Nau-3 exercise by Pakistan Army, General Athar said that some of the news channels are airing news regarding the presence of some drones in the air of Sargodha presumably owned by some other country than Pakistan. There is no substance in such news as the drones seen in the air of Sargodha *are indigenously developed by Pakistan*, he said.


would like to welcome a picture :


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## mughaljee

drone's which type.


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## gogbot

mean_bird said:


> *Pakistan operates indigenous drones​*
> ISLAMABAD (APP) &#8211; Pakistan on Monday conducted successful operation of indigenously developed drone in the area of Sargodha, said Director General ISPR Major General Athar Abbas.
> 
> Briefing newsmen on the Azm-e-Nau-3 exercise by Pakistan Army, General Athar said that some of the news channels are airing news regarding the presence of some drones in the air of Sargodha presumably owned by some other country than Pakistan. &#8220;There is no substance in such news as the drones seen in the air of Sargodha *are indigenously developed by Pakistan*,&#8221; he said.





danger-zone said:


> would like to welcome a picture :





mughaljee said:


> drone's which type.



don't tell me, you guys don't know about your own stuff



> Jasoos (Urdu: &#1580;&#1575;&#1587;&#1608;&#1587; English: spy) is a unmanned aerial vehicle designed and manufactured by SATUMA of Pakistan. The Jasoos II Bravo+ variant is currently operational with the Pakistan Air Force



It was inducted last year


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## TaimiKhan

gogbot said:


> don't tell me, you guys don't know about your own stuff
> 
> It was inducted last year



If you don't also know much then plzz don't barge in. 

There are many drone types which Pakistan has been using, and news about newer models being manufactured are in the news for sometime now, so people do have curiosity to see if it is something else. 

Jasoos is not the only drone PAF operates, there is Falco UAV and other models which are used by PAF for different purposes, similarly PA also uses different drones for different purposes.


----------



## gogbot

TaimiKhan said:


> If you don't also know much then plzz don't barge in.
> 
> There are many drone types which Pakistan has been using, and news about newer models being manufactured are in the news for sometime now, so people do have curiosity to see if it is something else.
> 
> Jasoos is not the only drone PAF operates, there is Falco UAV and other models which are used by PAF for different purposes, similarly PA also uses different drones for different purposes.



Jassos , is Pak only indigenous UAV in operation, as officially stated.

There is also an indigenous UCAV project a few years away.

Pakistan may be operating a number of other Foreign systems.

I only know do the 35 Falco's in service.

However,
What i said is still fact, Jasoos is indigenous and in service, these war no mention made that UAV seen was newer model, only that it was Pakistani made

If you didn't like you saying i barged in, this is a public forum, as long as i am acting within the rules i will post as i see fit. 

If my tone upsets anyone tough luck. i have no obligation to be nice guy


----------



## DANGER-ZONE

gogbot said:


> don't tell me, you guys don't know about your own stuff
> 
> 
> 
> It was inducted last year



hahahah.....pal PAF n PA are using different UAV platforms of different sizes and characteristic.
the UAV we r talking about seems to be different then those old ones,thats why it attracted media and people.
*news reports people were worried about unknown Drone flying in the aerospace of Sargodah and u must know which UAV is called unknown in Pakistan..So it could be threatening news for u guys cuz there wer rumors that turkey is helping PAC in this field,although China is also counted in everything Pakistan does.*


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## TaimiKhan

gogbot said:


> Jassos , is Pak only indigenous UAV in operation, as officially stated.
> 
> There is also an indigenous UCAV project a few years away.
> 
> Pakistan may be operating a number of other Foreign systems.
> 
> I only know do the 35 Falco's in service.
> 
> However,
> What i said is still fact, Jasoos is indigenous and in service, these war no mention made that UAV seen was newer model, only that it was Pakistani made
> 
> If you didn't like you saying i barged in, this is a public forum, as long as i am acting within the rules i will post as i see fit.
> 
> If my tone upsets anyone tough luck. i have no obligation to be nice guy



Don't worry, its your guys nature to barge in and destroy threads, and we are here to throw guys like you out. 

And the news also doesn't says its the jasoos, it only says its local made and in local made we have not one UAV in service. Army is using its own models, while PAF uses its own. 

So it can be either a Falco, Jasoos, Uqab, Luna or any other new or older variant.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Nishan_101

Hy, you mean the drone which is just UAV that is being developed wit Italiano-Galalio Avionico and PAC named as FALCO/UQAB.


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## TaimiKhan

Nishan_101 said:


> Hy, you mean the drone which is just UAV that is being developed wit Italiano-Galalio Avionico and PAC named as FALCO/UQAB.



Falco is the Italian one being manufactured at PAC, while Uqab is for the Army, being manufactured by NESCOM.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## imran-shl

Good & nice post


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## ace slasher

*Can India compete with Pakistani drones?*

Pakistan has already received US Shadow drones, but Pakistan has already been working on its own drones.

*THE LETHAL PAKISTANI BURRAQ IS THE PREDATOR EQUIVALENT*: The Burraq is capable of reconnaissance and missile attacks:

PAC engineers have been working on the first UAV project of the country for two years, according to a report published on the aviation industry Flightglobal website in August. Pakistan is also reported to be flight-testing the Burraq, named for a winged-horse type creature in Islamic tradition. The Burraq is to be equipped with National Engineering and Scientific Commission (or NESCom) designed laser designator and laser-guided missiles. Unlike the Falco, Burraq will be able to attack and destroy targets.

Pakistan has now virtually become a member of the club of countries manufacturing drones. The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) desperately needs UAVs capable of firing at targeted militants.

The Falco, with an autonomous navigation and control system, has a standard control link range of 200 kilometers and is capable of short take-offs from semi-prepared airstrips. Among its prominent features are automatic take-off and landing, fully redundant and fault-tolerant control systems and near-real-time target image processing.

ISLAMABAD  After years of watching U.S. drones operate along its Afghan border, Pakistan is working on its own Predator-like unmanned aerial vehicle to undertake the same mission, sources here said. The sources said the countrys air force and government-owned defense conglomerate, the National Engineering and Scientific Commission, are flight-testing a new-design aircraft to be equipped with a NESCom-designed laser designator and laser-guided missiles. The Burraq UAV is named for a winged horse creature in Islamic tradition, similar to Pegasus.

According to local news reports, Pakistan is focusing its unmanned aircraft efforts on upgrading various older UAVs with Chinese help. But the sources note that no domestically produced UAVis large enough to heft both a missile and a targeting system. The militarys most capable UAV is the air forces Selex Galileo Falco, which can laser-designate targets for other platforms but cannot deliver munitions.

Officials with the Ministry of Defence and Ministry of Defence Production here refused to confirm or deny the programs existence. A spokesman for the militarys Inter Services Public Relations said it was not ready to give a statement on the issue at this time. One former air force officer said the notion of a Pakistan-developed hunter-killer UAV is credible. You only have to see our track record, said Kaiser Tufail, a retired air commodore. We have some fantastic achievements in the field of defense.

Tufail said Pakistan needs such a weapon. Anti-terror operations on the frontier require hours and hours of round-the-clock reconnaissance, married with the ability to strike quickly when a target is spotted, he said. Help from China? Analysts were more dubious about Pakistans ability to produce a laser-guided missile, but they noted that help might be found in China or Turkey. Turkey, with whom Pakistan has an agreement to cooperate on UAV development, is seeking an armed UAV, preferably the Predator or MQ-9 Reaper. This UAVmay someday be armed with the UMTAS infrared guided anti-tank missile being developed by the Turkish firm Roketsan to arm the T-129 attack helicopter.

Pakistan could simply produce Chinas new CH-3 unmanned combat air vehicle, or co-produce any number of Chinese components to assemble a unique UCAV, said Richard Fisher, China specialist and senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center in Washington. China has also developed the unique AR-1, a 45-kilogram, laser-guided attack missile, apparently designed specifically for light winged or helicopter UCAVs, he said. Pakistan reported developing armed UAV By Usman Ansari  Staff writer, Saturday May 9, 2009 8:17:26 EDT

The Burraq is based on the Falco  SELEX GALILEO technology. We produce information on the Selix Galileo so that an adequate comparison can be made with the Burraq.

NEW DELHI: New battlelines are being drawn for a spy drone versus spy drone face-off between India and Pakistan. Even as Islamabad continues to badger Washington to give it armed drones like `Predators, New Delhi is quietly working towards bolstering its fleet of reconnaissance and `killer Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs).

While Pakistan has been after US to get `strategic UAVs like `Predators, the latter has so far only agreed to supply `tactical unarmed `Shadow drones for intelligence-gathering missions.

`Predators and `Reapers, controlled from hundreds of miles away through satellites, can unleash havoc with their `Hellfire missilesThe Times of India

Unable to produce its own drones, the Bharati (aka Indian) establishment is doing what it does besttries to buy drones. Most of the time, the exporting nations sell their junk to Delhi. Corrupt Bharati politicians dont really care about the quality of the equipmentas long as their pockets are filled.

In the latest such contract inked with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) a few days ago, India has ordered a few more `Heron MALE (medium-altitude, long endurance) drones, ground control systems and data terminals for around Rs 700 crore, defence ministry sources said on Thursday.

The importance of UAVs in modern-day warfare cannot be overstated, both for their snooping as well as targeting capabilities.

Bharat has been unable to produce any drones on its ownhowever it does have stripped down versions of Israeli UAVs.

These primarily include Israeli ones like Searcher-II and Heron, as also some Harpy `killer drones designed to detect and destroy enemy radars by functioning like cruise missiles.

Under the latest deal, Navy will now get two more Herons to add to its UAV fleet of eight Searcher-II and four Herons, which are being used for maritime surveillance up to 200 nautical miles.

There is also the ongoing Rs 1,163 crore joint IAI-DRDO project for NRUAVs (naval rotary UAVs) or unmanned helicopters operating from warship decks for advanced ISR (intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance) missions.

As reported by TOI earlier, Army is also going in for two more `troops (8 birds each) of advanced Heron UAVs for Rs 1,118 crore after the Defence Acquisitions Council approved it in February 2009.

Apart from using UAVs for spying and directing precision-guided munitions, IAF is now looking to induct Israeli Harop `killer UAVs from 2011 onwards. Like the Harpy, Harop drones are capable of loitering over targets before they explode into them. But what makes them more advanced is that they also have electro-optical sensors to make them capable of even hitting important enemy military installations like missile sites.

While Harpy and Harop are kamikaze UAVs which perish with the targets, Predators and Reapers are more like fighters since they return to their bases to get a fresh stock of missiles for new missions.

The next phase will be that of full-fledged UCAVs (combat UAVs) being currently developed to replace manned fighter jets for medium and long-range conventional or nuclear bombing missions. India lines up Israeli drones in race with Pak Rajat Pandit, TNN, Mar 26, 2010, 01.06am IST

The latest Times of India article does acknowledge that the indigenous production has been non-existent.

India, on its part, has also set the indigenous ball rolling. After Nishant and Lakshya drones, DRDO is developing the `Rustom MALE drones, with the Army keen to induct seven `troops of them.

Moreover, as reported earlier, Army also wants to induct man-portable `mini and `micro UAVs for short-range surveillance and NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) detection in the battlefield. Army, in fact, wants to induct these miniature spy drones right down to the battalion-level by 2017. India lines up Israeli drones in race with Pak

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## TaimiKhan

"Chinese ground force weapon manufacturer China North Industries Group (NORINCO) used this year's UAV exhibition to reveal its Blue Arrow-7, or BA-7, air-to-ground missile, which is also designed at least initially for use by a UCAV. The BA-7 looks like a smaller version of NORINCO's HJ-10/AKD-10 next-generation anti-tank guided missile, which was designed for the WZ-10 attack helicopter. The BA-7 weighs 47 kg, has a range of 2 to 7 km and features a claimed ability to penetrate 1,400 mm of rolled homogeneous armor (RHA). In contrast the similarly sized AR-1 claims an 8 km range and the ability to penetrate 1,000 mm of RHA. 

A poster on the NORINCO stand stated that its 209 Institute conducts systems integration for anti-armour UCAVs that feature automatic target recognition and datalinks for command and control. However, this poster and others on display in the pavilion of Chinese aviation industry leader Aviation Industries Corporation of China (AVIC), featured illustrations of a delta-wing, turbofan-powered UCAV with twin vertical stabilisers firing a missile that looked similar to the BA-7. This UCAV concept, which features a bulbous forward fuselage consistent with Western UAV satellite datalink configurations, was first seen in the February 2005 issue of Chinese military-issue magazine World Outlook . The illustration also featured a missile similar to the BA-7. At the time it was difficult to determine if the UCAV was part of a genuine programme, but the recent use of this same UCAV concept illustration in 2010 by NORINCO confirms the existence of this UCAV. "

" It is speculated that a special live fire demonstration was held for the visiting Pakistan Army Chief of Staff, General Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani, whose forces are engaged in a bitter battle against armed militants in Pakistan's north-west frontier border areas. "

http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-f...neral-ashfaq-parvez-kayani-26.html#post957281


And here below is the BA-7 missile, seems little brother of the HJ-10/ KD-10 ATGM, it seems we are gonna be seeing these in our arsenal very soon.

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## Mani2020

PA may be looking for using this missile on *Burraq UCAV* I think It would be used on our very own *Burraq UCAV* as this missile is a UCAV based missile so it clearly gives a hint that *Burraq UCAV * *is somewhere there*...as i dont see otherwise PA getting this missile as we donot have any other UCAV


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## Frankenstein

ace slasher said:


> *Can India compete with Pakistani drones?*
> 
> Pakistan has already received US Shadow drones, but Pakistan has already been working on its own drones.
> 
> *THE LETHAL PAKISTANI BURRAQ IS THE PREDATOR EQUIVALENT*: The Burraq is capable of reconnaissance and missile attacks:
> 
> PAC engineers have been working on the first UAV project of the country for two years, according to a report published on the aviation industry Flightglobal website in August. Pakistan is also reported to be flight-testing the Burraq, named for a winged-horse type creature in Islamic tradition. The Burraq is to be equipped with National Engineering and Scientific Commission (or NESCom) designed laser designator and laser-guided missiles. Unlike the Falco, Burraq will be able to attack and destroy targets.
> 
> Pakistan has now virtually become a member of the club of countries manufacturing drones. The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) desperately needs UAVs capable of firing at targeted militants.
> 
> The Falco, with an autonomous navigation and control system, has a standard control link range of 200 kilometers and is capable of short take-offs from semi-prepared airstrips. Among its prominent features are automatic take-off and landing, fully redundant and fault-tolerant control systems and near-real-time target image processing.
> 
> ISLAMABAD  After years of watching U.S. drones operate along its Afghan border, Pakistan is working on its own Predator-like unmanned aerial vehicle to undertake the same mission, sources here said. The sources said the countrys air force and government-owned defense conglomerate, the National Engineering and Scientific Commission, are flight-testing a new-design aircraft to be equipped with a NESCom-designed laser designator and laser-guided missiles. The Burraq UAV is named for a winged horse creature in Islamic tradition, similar to Pegasus.
> 
> According to local news reports, Pakistan is focusing its unmanned aircraft efforts on upgrading various older UAVs with Chinese help. But the sources note that no domestically produced UAVis large enough to heft both a missile and a targeting system. The militarys most capable UAV is the air forces Selex Galileo Falco, which can laser-designate targets for other platforms but cannot deliver munitions.
> 
> Officials with the Ministry of Defence and Ministry of Defence Production here refused to confirm or deny the programs existence. A spokesman for the militarys Inter Services Public Relations said it was not ready to give a statement on the issue at this time. One former air force officer said the notion of a Pakistan-developed hunter-killer UAV is credible. You only have to see our track record, said Kaiser Tufail, a retired air commodore. We have some fantastic achievements in the field of defense.
> 
> Tufail said Pakistan needs such a weapon. Anti-terror operations on the frontier require hours and hours of round-the-clock reconnaissance, married with the ability to strike quickly when a target is spotted, he said. Help from China? Analysts were more dubious about Pakistans ability to produce a laser-guided missile, but they noted that help might be found in China or Turkey. Turkey, with whom Pakistan has an agreement to cooperate on UAV development, is seeking an armed UAV, preferably the Predator or MQ-9 Reaper. This UAVmay someday be armed with the UMTAS infrared guided anti-tank missile being developed by the Turkish firm Roketsan to arm the T-129 attack helicopter.
> 
> Pakistan could simply produce Chinas new CH-3 unmanned combat air vehicle, or co-produce any number of Chinese components to assemble a unique UCAV, said Richard Fisher, China specialist and senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center in Washington. China has also developed the unique AR-1, a 45-kilogram, laser-guided attack missile, apparently designed specifically for light winged or helicopter UCAVs, he said. Pakistan reported developing armed UAV By Usman Ansari  Staff writer, Saturday May 9, 2009 8:17:26 EDT
> 
> The Burraq is based on the Falco  SELEX GALILEO technology. We produce information on the Selix Galileo so that an adequate comparison can be made with the Burraq.
> 
> NEW DELHI: New battlelines are being drawn for a spy drone versus spy drone face-off between India and Pakistan. Even as Islamabad continues to badger Washington to give it armed drones like `Predators, New Delhi is quietly working towards bolstering its fleet of reconnaissance and `killer Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs).
> 
> While Pakistan has been after US to get `strategic UAVs like `Predators, the latter has so far only agreed to supply `tactical unarmed `Shadow drones for intelligence-gathering missions.
> 
> `Predators and `Reapers, controlled from hundreds of miles away through satellites, can unleash havoc with their `Hellfire missilesThe Times of India
> 
> Unable to produce its own drones, the Bharati (aka Indian) establishment is doing what it does besttries to buy drones. Most of the time, the exporting nations sell their junk to Delhi. Corrupt Bharati politicians dont really care about the quality of the equipmentas long as their pockets are filled.
> 
> In the latest such contract inked with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) a few days ago, India has ordered a few more `Heron MALE (medium-altitude, long endurance) drones, ground control systems and data terminals for around Rs 700 crore, defence ministry sources said on Thursday.
> 
> The importance of UAVs in modern-day warfare cannot be overstated, both for their snooping as well as targeting capabilities.
> 
> Bharat has been unable to produce any drones on its ownhowever it does have stripped down versions of Israeli UAVs.
> 
> These primarily include Israeli ones like Searcher-II and Heron, as also some Harpy `killer drones designed to detect and destroy enemy radars by functioning like cruise missiles.
> 
> Under the latest deal, Navy will now get two more Herons to add to its UAV fleet of eight Searcher-II and four Herons, which are being used for maritime surveillance up to 200 nautical miles.
> 
> There is also the ongoing Rs 1,163 crore joint IAI-DRDO project for NRUAVs (naval rotary UAVs) or unmanned helicopters operating from warship decks for advanced ISR (intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance) missions.
> 
> As reported by TOI earlier, Army is also going in for two more `troops (8 birds each) of advanced Heron UAVs for Rs 1,118 crore after the Defence Acquisitions Council approved it in February 2009.
> 
> Apart from using UAVs for spying and directing precision-guided munitions, IAF is now looking to induct Israeli Harop `killer UAVs from 2011 onwards. Like the Harpy, Harop drones are capable of loitering over targets before they explode into them. But what makes them more advanced is that they also have electro-optical sensors to make them capable of even hitting important enemy military installations like missile sites.
> 
> While Harpy and Harop are kamikaze UAVs which perish with the targets, Predators and Reapers are more like fighters since they return to their bases to get a fresh stock of missiles for new missions.
> 
> The next phase will be that of full-fledged UCAVs (combat UAVs) being currently developed to replace manned fighter jets for medium and long-range conventional or nuclear bombing missions. India lines up Israeli drones in race with Pak Rajat Pandit, TNN, Mar 26, 2010, 01.06am IST
> 
> The latest Times of India article does acknowledge that the indigenous production has been non-existent.
> 
> India, on its part, has also set the indigenous ball rolling. After Nishant and Lakshya drones, DRDO is developing the `Rustom MALE drones, with the Army keen to induct seven `troops of them.
> 
> Moreover, as reported earlier, Army also wants to induct man-portable `mini and `micro UAVs for short-range surveillance and NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) detection in the battlefield. Army, in fact, wants to induct these miniature spy drones right down to the battalion-level by 2017. India lines up Israeli drones in race with Pak



thanks for sharing man


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## air marshal

*Pakistan urged US for early transfer of drone technology to Pakistan*
June 28, 2010

** President says Pak-US defence collaboration must remain strong
* Says strategic dialogue has bridged trust deficit*

ISLAMABAD: President Asif Ali Zardari on Monday urged the US for early transfer of drone technology to Pakistan for its effective use by security forces to curb militancy.

He said this while talking to visiting US Air Force Chief of Staff Gen Norton A Schwartz, who called on him at the Presidents House.

The president said that the strategic dialogue process and the frequent interactions between US and Pakistani leadership had replaced the trust deficit between the two countries with a new sense of partnership and set their bilateral relations in a positive direction.

Matters relating to Pak-US bilateral relations, including defence cooperation, Pakistans fight against extremism and security situation in the region, came under discussion during the meeting.

The president said that inclusion of defence dialogue in the ambit of the strategic dialogue framework was also a step in the right direction.

The president thanked the US government for the delivery of F-16 aircrafts, which have been used extensively in counter-terrorism operations.

Zardari urged the US to upgrade the existing F-16s and said that defence collaboration between the two countries must remain strong.

This technology will not only eliminate PAFs existing limitations of precision night operations, but also enable the PAF to meet its mission objectives more effectively, the president said.

The president also emphasised the early reimbursement of arrears owed to Pakistan by the US under the Coalition Support Fund.

Referring to the regional situation, the president said that Pakistan, being a responsible country, was fully aware of its obligations and responsibilities and was committed to peace and stability in the region.

Pakistan will remain constructively engaged with the US and other international partners to promote the shared objectives of peace, security and development in Afghanistan, the president said.

He said the Pakistani people and government were committed to dealing with extremism and terrorism.

The president also praised the US leadership for acknowledging Pakistans role in the fight against extremism. Speaking on the occasion, Gen Schwartz said that the US highly appreciated the sacrifices made by the people, security forces and other law enforcement agencies of Pakistan in the war against terrorism.

Anne W Patterson, the US ambassador in Pakistan, Defence Minister Ahmad Mukhtar, Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman and Defence Secretary Lt Gen (r) Syed Athar Ali also attended the meeting.

Source: Associated Press of Pakistan


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## Dazzler

Nice and clean details of indigenous UQAB tactical UAV

::GLOBAL INDUSTRIAL AND DEFENCE SOLUTIONS ::


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## Bratva

How Burraq can be operated if it doesn't have a GPS guidance,, which America Will not give


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## INS Arihant

mafiya said:


> How Burraq can be operated if it doesn't have a GPS guidance,, which America Will not give



I think Pakistan can use Chinese system for this purpose


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## TaimiKhan

mafiya said:


> How Burraq can be operated if it doesn't have a GPS guidance,, which America Will not give



It can be upgraded with Commercial GPS device which is readily available and used in many of our aerial systems already, you don't need permission from the US, all you need is buy a device which can receive the GPS signals, its not a big deal. 

major problem would be controlling the aircraft at far flung distances where direct line of sight won't work, which needs a satellite based signal transmission, which can be done by either having own satellite, which we don't have, or we can try the Chinese and get some bandwidth from them to be used for our use. 

Army is already using satellite communication for its internal communication requirements.


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## Bratva

INS Arihant said:


> I think Pakistan can use Chinese system for this purpose



Nah,,,, Chinese system is not yet operational


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## Desi Sher

mafiya said:


> How Burraq can be operated if it doesn't have a GPS guidance,, which America Will not give



Buddy GPS would be available for UAV's.... But for Missiles Its doubtful, Cannot trust America..... Its better have Ones own Regional navigation system in the sky


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## INS Arihant

Desi Sher said:


> Buddy GPS would be available for UAV's.... But for Missiles Its doubtful, Cannot trust America..... Its better have *Ones own Regional navigation system* in the sky



But thats not a peace of cake ......


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## v9s

Desi Sher said:


> But for Missiles Its doubtful, Cannot trust America..... Its better have Ones own Regional navigation system in the sky



It's not about trusting Americans, it's about trusting the GPS system itself.

GPS is NEVER used with missiles.
In the event of a war with a technologically advanced nation the GPS system can easily be destroyed by the adversary, hence the reason why ICBM's or any important missiles use inertial navigation.


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## Nishan_101

any burraq Animated pics


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## Arsalan

there have been reports that NESCOM have also developed a laser guided missile to arm the future drones and may be attack helicopters as well.

currently we do use air launched version of biktar Shikan missile with our Cobras.

the new missile developed is lighter in weight making it possible to be carried by Armed UAV/Drones

by the ways of NESCOM, it not a news break at all. we have ssen them developing great value platform in past and one only come to know about them when they are test fired.
Babur Missile is a classic example.
so are the H-2 and H-4 glide bombs that are still under thick cover of secreacy.

regards!

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## BATMAN

^^AA123, you meant to write UAV! correct?
Please clarify this UCAV confusion.

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## Arsalan

BATMAN said:


> ^^AA123, you meant to write UAV! correct?
> Please clarify this UCAV confusion.



sort of..
to be carried by a UAV (unmanned air vehicle) converting it into an UCAV (unmanned Combate air Vehicle).

i agree that now with the development of systems like X-45, the concept of UCAV is changing, 
perhaps i should have said armed UAV or drone!!
thanks for pointing out, i have edited my post.

regards!

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## fatman17

*AAI Corporation*

RQ-7B Shadow  
D;0
Cu;0
On Order;12 

- Note: Media reports from 21st January 2010 detailed plans for the United States to provide Pakistan with 12 Shadow UAV systems, with an order placed during the following weeks.

AFI.


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## fatman17

*Pakistani Army to Buy Approved Predator Drones*

11 August 2010

The Pakistani Army plans to acquire Predator XP drones, an export-approved version, from General Atomics Aeronautical Systems (GAAS).

Predator A or Predator XP type product drones are unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) known for launching successful strikes against high-profile militants.

A ten-aircraft Predator system, consisting of ground stations and software, would cost $400m with the price of one Predator ranging from $4m to $15m.

GAAS, the US-based company that makes Predators, said it had approval to sell the export-approved version of the UAV to countries other than the US, Nato members, Japan, Australia and New Zealand.

GAAS spokesperson Kimberly A Kasitz said the company had approached the US State Department for a licence to begin negotiations for such a sale with Pakistan and other Middle Eastern countries.

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## IceCold

fatman17 said:


> *Pakistani Army to Buy Approved Predator Drones*
> 
> 11 August 2010
> 
> The Pakistani Army plans to acquire Predator XP drones, an export-approved version, from General Atomics Aeronautical Systems (GAAS).
> 
> Predator A or Predator XP type product drones are unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) known for launching successful strikes against high-profile militants.
> 
> A ten-aircraft Predator system, consisting of ground stations and software, would cost $400m with the price of one Predator ranging from $4m to $15m.
> 
> GAAS, the US-based company that makes Predators, said it had approval to sell the export-approved version of the UAV to countries other than the US, Nato members, Japan, Australia and New Zealand.
> 
> GAAS spokesperson Kimberly A Kasitz said the company had approached the US State Department for a licence to begin negotiations for such a sale with Pakistan and other Middle Eastern countries.



What does export approved version means? or by export approved version do they mean a down graded version of predator? Still if it fires missile.....should be fine for us till buraq gets operational.


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## Arsalan

IceCold said:


> What does export approved version means? or by export approved version do they mean a down graded version of predator? Still if it fires missile.....should be fine for us till buraq gets operational.



infact the Burraq may also get its share of benifits from any such deal.
the high tech structure of predator , better engine, sophisticated all weather targeting and communication systems will indirectly help Burraq project.
However, saying all this, I personally dont really like the idea of spending another 400million $ in a fragile venture with US, really unreliable!!
The thing is that we are successful making smaller UAVs, NESCOM Is reported to have developed a targeting system and laser guided missile. This means we are all set for an indigenous drone.
If any assistance is required at all, China and Turkey are a thousand times better then US cooperation.

I would not like any further high end front line machines with US tags in Pak inventory. This is my personal approach!

Regards!


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## mjnaushad

arsalanaslam123 said:


> there have been reports that NESCOM have also developed a laser guided missile to arm the future drones and may be attack helicopters as well.
> 
> currently we do use air launched version of biktar Shikan missile with our Cobras.



Bakhtar Shikan is wire guided . Cant be good for UCAV. 

Also i find it hard to believe about Pakistan developing Laser Guided Missile. I think we will go for either HJ9 or Turkish Anti Tanks LRAT.


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## DANGER-ZONE

mjnaushad said:


> Bakhtar Shikan is wire guided . Cant be good for UCAV.
> 
> *Also i find it hard to believe about Pakistan developing Laser Guided Missile*. I think we will go for either HJ9 or Turkish Anti Tanks LRAT.



then u must not believe on development of Babur & RA'AD cruise missile by Pakistan, either.


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## BATMAN

IceCold said:


> What does export approved version means? or by export approved version do they mean a down graded version of predator? Still if it fires missile.....should be fine for us till buraq gets operational.



I think that would be without satellite control option.
not same as US predators, which are piloted from US.


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## John Doe

fatman17 said:


> *AAI Corporation*
> 
> RQ-7B Shadow
> D;0
> Cu;0
> On Order;12
> 
> - Note: Media reports from 21st January 2010 detailed plans for the United States to provide Pakistan with 12 Shadow UAV systems, with an order placed during the following weeks.
> 
> AFI.



You will find this very interesting. And should answer all those who said that an unarmed Shadow is not what the PAF needs.
Also check the link for a nice photo:

ATK Offers Miniature Precision Guided Weapon for Unmanned Aerial Systems - Defense-Update

ATK is developing a lightweight precision guided munition, compact and light enough to be carried by the dozens or even hundreds by unmanned aerial aircraft. The new glide weapon is packed into a conformal container launcher carried under the wing of the Shadow, fitted on top of the strut root. Upon release the weapon&#8217;s fins are extracted and three airfoils pop into place, as the weapon glides on its path to the ground. As the three laser detectors are activated, they seek laser signals reflected from the designated target. Once the laser spot is detected, the weapon&#8217;s flight control processor computes the necessary corrections and activates the tail fins to point the weapon on the course homing in on the spot, hitting the target with high precision.
The weapon weighs about six pounds (2.7 kg). Its hand-grenade size warhead makes more than half that weight (about four pounds or 1.8 kg). The resulting effect offers maximum lethality against exposed targets, with minimal collateral damage to their surrounding.

Persistence and immediate response close air support based on such weapons has the potential to transform combined air/ground operations, as UAVs loitering above a ground combat element could continuously support ground forces through sustained combat engagements, without the logistical and operational burden when rotating through rearmament or replenishment cycles. Brigades could rely on their own Small UAVs assets like the Shadow, each carrying four weapons in addition to the standard ISR and radio relay payloads. Larger drones will employ multiple ejector racks packing 12 weapons or more, each loaded rack could be carried under a pylon currently carrying Hellfire missiles. Therefore, an MQ-1A Predator currently carrying two Hellfires will carry 24 of the new weapons. A similar load will be carried by the MQ-5B Hunter, while the MQ-1C Grey Eagle will be able to carry twice that load. The Air Forces&#8217; MQ-9 Reaper will be able to carry 72 units and the A-160 destined for the Special Operations Command will haul over 200 such weapons.

The miniature guided weapon currently under development could, potentially, replace current cluster weapons banned by international treaties. When employed in weapon systems, individually targeted guided weapons could be directed to scatter over the area to focus on specific target location, guided by GPS &#8211; or disperse over a specific area in a pattern maximizing the desired effect. Optional carriers such as new cruise missiles, or loitering weapons, will be able to employ such guided submunitions to attack multiple targets along their flight path, on a single mission.

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## Manticore

Coming back to Topic, One more thing I am allowed to add here is (Yes I did confirm its no top secret and indians are not waiting for someone to post it for them) is our embrace to new tactics including use of drones which emmit RCS of a known aircraft in order to fool/clutter/overwhelm the ground based enemy radars. I saw such a thing myself in Singapore where Israelis were showcasing their drones with this capability.
Israelis have already used such tactics and thats awesome to know such tactics are not limited to them. 

by

EagleHannan

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## air marshal

*Uqab Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV)*

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## understanding infinity

Russians being one of the major powers in the world are shifting for the procurement of Israeli UAVs. this will not indicate that they are not able in this field but this shows their priorities ... thier economy is their top most priority right now .... so instead of investing heavily and wait for couple of years to see their out put they decided to induct foreign systems .... so that they can get the time bracket for their economy and also seek some technology from advance developers ... and i think in couple of years they will come with bang with something new and exciting as they have doing so ... i think Pakistan should also think on same grounds ...


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## air marshal



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## air marshal



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## air marshal




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## TOPGUN

Any new news on the armed version of our uav ?


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## Manticore

sorry if posted earlier -- here is a link for pak drones

Made in Pakistan Drones - ProPakistani


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## fatman17

TOPGUN said:


> Any new news on the armed version of our uav ?



army is purchasing chinese armed UCAV CH-3 as apparantly italy has refused to arm our falco UAV purchase.

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## XYON

fatman17 said:


> army is purchasing chinese armed UCAV CH-3 as apparantly italy has refused to arm our falco UAV purchase.


 
Just what the hell is large Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra for if they cannot even arm a simple drone such as the Falco by themsleves? Total waste of Government resources.

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## Mani2020

XYON said:


> Just what the hell is large Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra for if they cannot even arm a simple drone such as the Falco by themsleves? Total waste of Government resources.


 
Even if they,they will not make it public as it will spoil the relations with Italy ,who always helped us when west put us under embargo


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## karaislam

pakistan has joined tai anka uav program or no?if yes broes no need to worry.10 piece of anka-a then armed 10 anka-b more than enough for you.

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## TOPGUN

fatman17 said:


> army is purchasing chinese armed UCAV CH-3 as apparantly italy has refused to arm our falco UAV purchase.


 
Thanks sir but do we know how many will be purchased? and do we have any pic's of the uav 's ?


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## fatman17

TOPGUN said:


> Thanks sir but do we know how many will be purchased? and do we have any pic's of the uav 's ?



20 drones - we r the launch customer - pics are available in chinese defence segment

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## Mani2020

TOPGUN said:


> Thanks sir but do we know how many will be purchased? and do we have any pic's of the uav 's ?


 
For your convenience 
*This UCAV uses Ft-5 missile*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Wats the news on Burraq?


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## farhan_9909

YouTube - China new "Rainbow" series UAV /

start watchng after 4:8..the UAV is Ch-3.

it is no more less then the predator


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## Rafi

karaislam said:


> pakistan has joined tai anka uav program or no?if yes broes no need to worry.10 piece of anka-a then armed 10 anka-b more than enough for you.


 
There was news that Pak is into it.


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## gyana

I want to know who prefers one over the other. What are the advantages and disadvantages of both? Forum posting services (also known as content writing) is the newest way to make money over the internet. Why work in a call center? I feel, night time work is bad for your health. The connections and differences between the two industries are the following
______________
babul
Google


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## MilSpec

With the operational capability that pakistan has had in operating UAV's, I think We will see high quality low cost UCAV's emerging from pakistan very soon.


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## Silk

I think that a nation that uses UAV a lot has the potential to get more and better products inhouse. Look at Israel. They used them in occupied territories and now they are largest exporter of UAV's in the world. Their market created options to sell.


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## ANG

Hi, I wonder who the new customer is? I know Pakistan bought and now produces the earlier version.

Selex Galileo gets new buyer for PicoSAR sensor-28/02/2011-London-Flightglobal.com


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## sanasahil

Is Pakistan capable of drone production, is it a myth or fact.


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## farhan_9909

sanasahil said:


> Is Pakistan capable of drone production, is it a myth or fact.


 
yes pakistan is bt no money to put on R&D.

plzz google

satuma and integrated dynamics


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## Manticore



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## ChineseTiger1986

ANTIBODY said:


>


 
Nice, many people here have underestimated the true capability of Pakistan.

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## ANG

Hi, I hope Pakistan is close to geting a combat drone. India seems to be investing a lot in this arena also. If India does develop the drone described below, it will be very impressive.

India Quietly Begins Indigenous Stealth Combat Drone Project ~ ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS


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## Manticore

CAMCOPTER S100


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## ovarel

ANTIBODY said:


>


 
the black one remembered me Harpy..its an anti-radar drone,i guess.


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## Manticore

ANTIBODY said:


>


 
i had this pic for over2 years--- so who knows where our industry is now!


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## Water Car Engineer

ANG said:


> Hi, I hope Pakistan is close to geting a combat drone. India seems to be investing a lot in this arena also. If India does develop the drone described below, it will be very impressive.
> 
> India Quietly Begins Indigenous Stealth Combat Drone Project ~ ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS


 
Going to be very difficult... I think DRDO Rustom is the main priority .


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## khurasaan1

Yea nice work by Pakistan in the field of drones...The actual and very important work required in its success is the development of of high power microwave devices or Amplifiers. Which will allow its working range to be increased and which increases its costs too.


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## nightcrawler

making UAVs & make them fly isn't that difficult for Pakistan; but what to fit upon them [cameras, sensors, ..even missiles] is the real problem


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## emoriphious




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## emoriphious




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## muse

Can someone shed light as to what the real problems for Pakistan have been? It's difficult to agree that mission and fire control hardware are serious challenges, however, the fact that Pakistan seem not to have made much progress suggests that something or the other is a real stumbling block - what is that stumbling block?


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## Manticore

good choice of pakistani song aswell..


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## Manticore




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## fatman17

ASIA PACIFIC 
Date Posted: 19-Apr-2011 


Defence Weekly 


*Pakistan calls for UAV purchase to engender military independence*.

Jon Grevatt Asia-Pacific Industry Reporter - Bangkok



Pakistan has repeated its call for the United States to agree to provide Islamabad with unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and related technologies to allow the Pakistan armed forces greater independence when carrying out surveillance missions. 

A statement by the Pakistan government on 18 April said Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani urged visiting representatives from the US Congress to "use their influence" with the Obama administration to agree on a strategy "under which the drone technology should be transferred to Pakistan". 

In March 2010 the US Department of Defense (DoD) said it was exploring options for supplying Pakistan with 12 RQ-7 Shadow UAVs to enable the Pakistani armed forces to have their own intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets. It was previously expected that the UAVs would arrive in Pakistan at the end of 2010 or in early 2011. 


ANALYSIS 

Pakistan has repeatedly complained to the US about attacks by CIA-run UAVs inside its borders. In the statement, Gilani also said: "The US should refrain from drone attacks and instead share credible intelligence to enable Pakistan to take action against the terrorists itself." 

The proposed UAV procurement, which is estimated to cost around USD150 million, will be funded through the Pakistan Counter-insurgency Capability Fund: an aid package established in 2009 to provide USD2.8 billion to Pakistan over five years in an effort to build a counter-insurgency capability. A similar amount is available to Pakistan under the US Foreign Military Financing (FMF) framework. 

Much of these funds are available for procurement but, despite this, Pakistan has not usually been offered high levels of technology transfer on such acquisitions. Pakistan's purchase of F-16 aircraft in 2006, for instance, was delayed due to negotiations over some of the clauses that the US government put in place regarding the transfer of technology.


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## Bratva

muse said:


> Can someone shed light as to what the real problems for Pakistan have been? It's difficult to agree that mission and fire control hardware are serious challenges, however, the fact that Pakistan seem not to have made much progress suggests that something or the other is a real stumbling block - what is that stumbling block?



Most Probably. A Satellite Link to UAV. especially in the hilly terrains of Fata. where there is very less Line of sight and you cant fly a drone with such ease

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## fatman17

DAWN is reporting that the US has now offered to supply the RAVEN mini-UAV for ISR ops.


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## Silk

Still no armed UAV so waste of funds.


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## fatman17

Silk said:


> Still no armed UAV so waste of funds.



its their funds - we get it for 'free' - what do u want for nothing - 'rubber biscuits'!!!


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## humza_313

so what about the news that U.S would supply some UAVs to pak???


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## humza_313

Silk said:


> Still no armed UAV so waste of funds.



can you give some updates regarding this news??

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:32 PM ----------




fatman17 said:


> DAWN is reporting that the US has now offered to supply the RAVEN mini-UAV for ISR ops.


 
can you give some updates regarding this news?? thanks!


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## Manticore

chinese UAVs will be equipped with precision-made bombs

Airborne weapons, the difficulty of making air-ground ammunition is the largest air because the ground is much more complex than the interfering factors. &#25818;&#12298;&#31777;&#27663;&#12299;&#22577;&#36947;&#65292;&#36817;10&#24180;&#20358;&#65292;&#20013;&#22283;&#25512;&#20986;&#20102;&#19968;&#31995;&#21015;&#38647;&#36948;&#21046;&#23566;&#28856;&#24392;&#65288;&#20197;&#21069;&#26159;GPS&#21152;&#24931;&#24615;&#21046;&#23566;&#65292;&#29694;&#22312;&#26159;&#38647;&#36948;&#33287;GPS&#24489;&#21512;&#21046;&#23566;&#65289;&#65292;&#24615;&#33021;&#20063;&#19981;&#26039;&#25552;&#21319;&#12290; According to "" report, nearly 10 years, China has launched a series of radar-guided bombs (formerly GPS plus inertial guidance, radar and GPS is now combined guidance), performance has been increasing.

At the same time actively standoff weapons development, a number of models have emerged in the People's Liberation Army Air Force fighters, bombers, and Army aviation in the unmanned aerial vehicles, armed helicopters.

China Aerospace Science and Technology is developing the "FT" series of precision-guided bombs, including 500 kg of FT -1 and 250 kg of FT -3.

If you install extended range devices, the FT and FT -1 -3 -2 bombs can be upgraded to soar and soar -6, with a range of 90 kilometers and can hit the enemy headquarters, factories, ports, communications centers and ground troops.

The same company is also developing small-diameter bombs soar -5, the bomb lies between 55-75 kg, the use of semi-active radar seeker, the carrier aircraft or ground forces, precision guided the terminal is mainly used to destroy hiding in the population agglomerations goals. &#26377;&#28040;&#24687;&#31281;&#65292;&#35299;&#25918;&#36557;&#35336;&#21123;&#23559;&#35442;&#28856;&#24392;&#25645;&#36617;&#22312;&#22283;&#29986;&#24425;&#34425;&#65293;3&#28961;&#20154;&#27231;&#19978;&#12290; It is said that the PLA plans to carry a bomb on UAVs in domestic rainbow -3.

In addition, China is still on display at last year's Zhuhai Air Show, the Ray Stone -6 another small-diameter bomb, which includes 50 kg and 100 kg models. 

Google Translate


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## TurkishCyprus

Turkey became the 3rd country in the world after USA and Israel in building strategic unmanned combat air vehicle.

TAI Anka-A Unmanned Air Vehicle Flight Video (Software and material of UAV: 100% Turkish):





TAI Anka-B Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle Flight Video (with Turkish-made Roketsan Cirit Missiles):
..will be published after the restriction on the video is removed...

I think, Pakistan is a friend country of Turkey.
Turkey should help Pakistan and give know-how technology to Pakistan in developing Pakistan's own UAVs and UCAVs.

If Pakistan desires, Turkey should sell TAI Anka-B UCAV as well.


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## TurkishCyprus

Mani2020 said:


> For your convenience
> *This UCAV uses Ft-5 missile*



What is the name of this vehicle? It seems different.


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## Kompromat

^ Its CH-03


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## Arsalan

we badly need a UCAV and need to develop it indegeniously or with little assistance from china and turkey.
we MUST NOT go and procure this system from any country since we all know that this can be developed in house.

the question is what is causing the delay,. whatever it is, that is that point on which we can seek assistance and move ahead.

what happened to Buraq. it was supos to be an indegenious UCAV and was hoped to be unvieled this year.
any news?

Arsalan Aslam

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## Riz

Any body knows what kind of these drones are ?


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## mughaljee

> Daily Express News Story







Here is the latest development.


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## khurasaan1

we already making surveilance drones ...we need to make now attack drones.......I guess its not hard to make attack drones they are far easier than JF-17 project......with less money involved......


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## fatman17

*B-6 / F-6 Drones* 

A number of the retired J-6/Mig-19 fighters are thought to have been converted to UAVs as B-6 drones. Some of them were seen recently carrying two 250kg bombs under the wings, suggesting their new role as low-cost ground attack UCAVs, or even as one-time use missiles. Additional weapons such as rocket launchers may be carried as well. 
- Last Updated 3/13/11.

_PAF has plently of 'retired' F-6's. this could be an interesting project . could be used in FATA against militants as a fire and forget drone._


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## Manticore

ANTIBODY said:


> three types of UAV that the Chinese have put in service, J-6 UAV UAV J-7 and CK-1


 The Chinese have also transformed the very old J-6 in UAV Air-Sol

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## fatman17

*CH-3*

First seen at the 2008 Zhuhai show,the slightly smaller CH-3, with 12 hr.endurance, uses a canard design copied from the U.S. Varieze homebuilt aircraft. It is armed with the FT-5 small satnav-guided bomb and AR-1 optically guided missile, similar in size to the BA-7. Wall displays at the 2008 Zhuhai show indicated that the CH-3 could support ground and maritime operations. While neither UCAV has been seen with a PLA unit, Pakistan selected the CH-3 for coproduction and is testing a version of it.


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## Highway_Cop

Manufacturing of UAV's Airframe, and installing Engine to make a UAV FLY is not a big issue . . . BUT the main issue is that HOW you will acquire and install Electronic sensors, Laser Guiding mechanism etc to make it fire a missile to the target . . . Thats the real issue . . . !


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## Highway_Cop

Pakistan's UAV "Falco"


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## Highway_Cop

Integrated Dynamics, a Karachi Based Pakistan Company manufacturing serial production of different small and medium sized UAVs at its Karachi manufacturing facility.


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## Highway_Cop

Pakistan based company SATUMA's made "Flemingo" UAV


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## Highway_Cop




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## Highway_Cop

Another Pakistani UAV "Huma-1"


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## Highway_Cop

Pakistan Made UAV "Huma-1" at a Military Display

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## pshamim

Newly revealed Chinese "Soar Dragon" UCAV is claimed to have a 7000km range. What are the chances that Pakistan may be interested. 


How do I upload pictures from my computer files?

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## HAIDER

Here you go sir

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## XYON

HAIDER said:


> Here you go sir



Funny looking bird! My question is, where do the bombs fit? The wings seem too fragile to support the weight of bombs or any guided munition.


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## pshamim

No this is not "Soar Dragon". Pictures I have seen and have are not even close to the above.

I have a feeling that this is not the right thread for what I posted above. Sorry chaps!

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## nightcrawler

HAIDER said:


> Here you go sir



What is this name?


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## krash

pshamim said:


> Newly revealed Chinese "Soar Dragon" UCAV is claimed to have a 7000km range. What are the chances that Pakistan may be interested.
> 
> 
> *How do I upload pictures from my computer files?*



Sir first upload your pics to photobucket.com or imageshack.us. Then copy the direct links of your photos from the said sites to the box which pops up when you press the 'image' button here.


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## Mo12

HAIDER said:


> Here you go sir



Does that have a Chinese logo on the drone?


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## houshanghai

Mo12 said:


> Does that have a Chinese logo on the drone?


The head of this UAV have Chinese characters "xianglong" ,English means " Soar Dragon"
His wings and tail have PLAAF logo,vertical tail have AVIC logo.
This UAV will be used for high altitude/long distance reconnaissance ,it have a rare design of joined-wing .
Either way, The UAV development in China is extremely confusing.

the real pic of this UAV

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## Kompromat

pshamim said:


> Newly revealed Chinese "Soar Dragon" UCAV is claimed to have a 7000km range. What are the chances that Pakistan may be interested.
> 
> 
> How do I upload pictures from my computer files?



Picasa 3: Free download from Google

AOA sir its easy.


1: Download and Install the picasa from the above link
2: Make a picasa account through this link below.

[https://www.google.com/accounts/New...com%2Fhome&service=lh2&ltmpl=gp&passive=true]

3: Picasa software will show all of your photos - just click upload button the photos will be updated on your web album.
4: Once uploaded - right click on the photo you would like to post here - copy image address and paste it in your message box.

Thanks.


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## pshamim

houshanghai;The head of this UAV have Chinese characters "xianglong" said:


> http://i.imgur.com/yHZxr.jpg[/IMG]



Thanks friend. Yes that is the picture. In another picture. a related sign shows its range being 7000km. Is that true? If so, that is a great Chinese achievement

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## houshanghai

pshamim said:


> Thanks friend. Yes that is the picture. In another picture. a related sign shows its range being 7000km. Is that true? If so, that is a great Chinese achievement



You are very welcome&#65292;it's my pleasure.sir.^^
According to some infs from CDF.
7000km is a old Range data in 2006.this UAV may yet have a larger range now.
In addition,if the UAV's current turbojet engine can be replaced with a turbofan engine&#65288;ex.ws13) in future.this UAV's range can still increase.

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## DANGER-ZONE

why there is a Vertical Tail (Vertical Stabilator) for next generation Chinese UAV. All American Drones have crossed tail to reflect the Radar rays. Why chines have made Vertical Stabilator instead of Cross for this drone ? ?


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## monitor

*Missile-Launched UCAVs: A Preliminary Concept Design 
*
www.GrandeStrategy.com
CONCEPT PAPER

Missile Launched UCAVs: A Preliminary Concept Design




8th July, 2011
Meinhaj Hussain, Grandestrategy
& Munir, Pakdef

Abstract:

The paper outlines a concept design of a Pakistan-centric UCAV design, the primary characteristics of which are an air-to-air role, low costs and a missile-launched platform. The UCAV is designed to play a supplemental role to PAF fighter jets. The concept explored is conceptually between a manned fighter and a guided missile. The missile launched design will allow the aircraft to be based anywhere and without dependence on an airfield, similar to mobile SAM systems.

Introduction

Unmanned Combat Air Vehicles (UCAVs) are a category of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) that are designed to fire munitions and are characterized by greater autonomy of operation. Key attributes coupled with UCAVs, as defined in conventional military jargon, include an unmanned counterpart of a manned attack or fighter aircraft. This necessitates such capabilities as range, high speeds and significant weapons load.

UCAVs are an emerging technology that has the potential to revolutionize air warfare. While the 5th generation of combat planes is today the pinnacle of military aviation, UCAVs present paradigms that can supplement if not supplant them. Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) who discuss a potential 6th generation inevitably mention unmanned aircraft as a possible key salient.

This paper focuses on UCAVs as primarily air-to-air combat vehicles focused on providing a simple, achievable solution as a complement and aid to PAF fighter aircraft. The proposed UCAV is a Pakistan-centric UCAV the primary characteristics of which include an air-to-air role, low-costs and a missile launched system. 

The proposed UCAV will be optimized for a high-high air-to-air profile. The system is designed to play a supplemental role to PAF fighter jets rather than to replace manned combat aircraft. The UCAV concept explored is conceptually between a manned fighter and a guided missile. A missile launched design will allow the aircraft to be based anywhere and without dependence on an airfield, similar to mobile SAM systems. The solution is emphasized to be built on cheap, reliable and achievable technologies, judged to be within the reach of Pakistan&#8217;s industrial base. The UCAV is designed with BVR engagements in mind rather than attempting to outdo fighter pilots in dogfights.

UCAV Technology
When the term UCAV is used, we imagine Ryan Reynolds as the pilot in the action flick, the Green Lantern take on sci-fi &#8211;like artificial intelligence UCAVs. Or we imagine Jessica Biel and Josh Lucas take on similar machines in Stealth. We then rightly assume that such technologies are fantasies and beyond the scope of serious discourse when considering Pakistan&#8217;s capabilities. 
The technologies needed for fielding real UCAVs are here, already proven and mature. Many of the technologies are in fact only waiting to be integrated together. Consider the example of autopilot computers that can now takeoff, fly to a destination and land the commercial aircraft. This technology has been available in the commercial airline industry for decades. Pilots can merely take control when something untoward happens. 

An American Global Hawk today can take off, fly around the world, accomplish its ISR mission and come back to base making a perfect landing, all with no manual input. A JSF is being designed with the ability to visually track a large number of targets, identify and categorize them without any human input. Modern missiles, utilizing proven technologies and without Artificial Intelligence (AI), can defeat maneuvering fighters by employing multiple tactics, even being able to come back in case it missed the designated aircraft in its first pass. Again, all this is accomplished without input from a human operator. 

Competing UCAV Paradigms: Unmanned F-35 vs. One-up Cruise Missile
Two paradigms of UCAVs are presently competing with each other. The first is broadly looking to build an F-35 like unmanned platform while the second seeks to build something a step above stand-off cruise missiles. The concept design proposed in this paper is closer to the second paradigm. It is worthy to note that Lockheed Martin&#8217;s &#8220;Skunk Works&#8221; shares a similar paradigm: 
From a system of systems, cost and concept of operations standpoint, "we take the view that (a UCAV) should be more like a JASSM that comes back than an F-35 that's unmanned," Kacena says. JASSM is the Lockheed Martin AGM-158 Joint Air-to-Surface Stand-Off Missile in production for the USAF and USN. He adds: "We think (the UCAV) should be controlled from an aircraft (such as an F-22 or F-35) that goes into a high-threat environment and that they should carry and launch them from a low observability pylon. The challenge is to create a pilot workload that is no more arduous than launching an Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile.[1]


The China Factor
All indications are that the Chinese are taking UCAVs very seriously and may lead the world in this technology within the next decade. One informed expert accessible to this author comments that: 
&#8220;&#8230;the Chinese will go the way faster than others because of their limited knowledge of air combats and the ability to produce fast and cheap. They never had good experience in modern war and always relied on quantity. In case of Pakistan, you need your pilots but you have to risk UCAV's to keep a front on the outside of your perimeter.&#8221;
Pakistan&#8217;s advanced missile technology base, the Babar Cruise Missile, the JF-17 program, the UAV prowess of Integrated Dynamics (among others) and close alliances with China and Turkey provide an ideal environment for such a venture. It appears that all the ingredients necessary for the successful development of such a UCAV are now present for a successful takeoff.

Pakistan&#8217;s Threat Scenario 2025

Before considering an active solution and the technologies relevant to that solution, it may be helpful to first consider the threat scenario Pakistan will face. Looking fifteen years ahead, an evident change in the quality of the threat in Pakistan&#8217;s neighborhood is evident. 
India will begin to field PAKFA fighter jets from Russia and may also develop her own from technology bought from the Russians. While the latter may be discounted as another employment opportunity for DRDO and related third-rate Indian bureaucracies, PAKFA and any specific design built for India by the Russians will provide a challenge that would be wholly new to the subcontinent: a 5th Generation Fighter. Further, it may not be farfetched to imagine a JSF purchase as well, given the blossoming long-term partnership developing between India and the United States. Hillary Clinton is said to have made an &#8220;unbelievable offer&#8221; of $65 million apiece for a basic F-35[2]. Even if these F-35s are not purchased, the MRCA is expected to yield 126-200 high-end 4.5++ generation Rafale or Eurofighter aircraft.
The PAKFA is a clear threat to the aerial security of Pakistan. The aircraft was designed to counter the F-22 in air combat. The threat is perhaps best defined as reasonable stealth, super cruising, high altitude and high speed. The PAKFA takes BVR combat to a new level that the airframe of the JF-17, by design, cannot compete with. BVRs launched from a high-high profile would increase missile range and speed and reduce the threat range and effectiveness of Pakistani BVR launches in response. If we imagine that Pakistani AWACs and refuelers will be in the sky, such threats would be a menace for these major assets, particularly with longer ranged BVR missiles bought from Russia. 
By 2025 India could possibly be fielding PAKFAs and other high-end platforms in the hundreds, drastically changing the military balance in the Subcontinent. Pakistan can either go bankrupt attempting to counter this new threat or she can become obsolete, back to a decade similar to the 1990s, but in a world that is rapidly destabilizing and closing around Pakistan. Or Pakistan can develop viable military strategies and programs to counter these threats, and, as concerns military aviation, Pakistan could seek some of those answers in UCAVs. 

A Simplified & Yet Useful Missile-Launched UCAV (ML-UCAV)

The proposed UCAV is Pakistan-centric and has the primary characteristics of an air-to-air role, low-costs and a missile-launched system. The UCAV will be optimized for a high-high air-to-air profile. It is designed to play a supplemental role to PAF fighter jets rather than to replace manned combat aircraft. The missile-launched design will allow independence from airfields, similar to mobile SAM systems; this conception of a UCAV theoretically placed between manned aircraft and guided missiles. 
The UCAV may be launched and placed into a high-high profile. The emphasis is to be built on cheap, reliable and achievable technologies, judged to be within the reach of Pakistan&#8217;s industrial capability. 

A V/STOL capability has been explored by a number of previous concepts including the British Harrier and more recently the F-35 and V-22 Osprey. Among projects that were undertaken include the US Navy Convair XFY-1, the Dessault Balzac and Bell YF-109. These planes were designed to counter the vulnerability and restrictions of airfields, which were increasingly exposed to attacks. They could also potentially provide air defense for ships. 



The concept was perhaps first conceived in the American Chance Vought V-173, a STOL fighter for the US Navy and the WWII era German Sanger Amerika Bomber[3], a rocket-powered aircraft launched from a rail and, like our proposal, designed for high-altitude and high-speed flight. The vulnerability spoken of here has only increased in recent years with the proliferation of PGM and cruise missiles, along with the particular geographical vicinity of the Indo-Pak scenario. Heavy piloting skill and workload coupled with the high-risk and danger posed during launch and recovery were key considerations why many of these projects went out of favor, despite the clear requirement.


Key Requirements
We identify the following key requirements of such a solution:

Mechanical simplicity (no pilot and all the pilot equipment like ejection seat, oxygen system, no landing gear, etc.)
Engine:
Simplified turbojet engine buildable in Pakistan
Low cost
Low Mean Time Before Failure (MTBF) to compensate for costs / complexity
Designed for high altitude, high speed f-pole BVR combat
Algorithms rather than Artificial Intelligence (AI)
Network-centric, swarm & group tactics
Smaller, low RCS, internal bay
In-Flight Refueling (IFR) capability 
These objectives may be achieved by the following characteristics as outlined below.
Aerodynamics
A well-swept, all-wing design with very large wing area optimized for a high-high profile. The air-intakes may be fixed, as the UCAV only needs to operate in a specific flight profile and the boosting rocket will get the UCAV to the right altitude / speed. This will allow superior and more efficient performance for a given engine technology. Simultaneously, a fixed inlet will save on weight, costs and complexity.
Human Input
The UCAVs will act as auxiliaries to manned combat aircraft. Input will be received if and when needed and the UCAV would also be capable of autonomous operations. The UCAV could be guided by AWACs, ground controllers and PAF fighters in the air. Regular manned fighters could give input but special two-seater JF-17s may also be created for added command and control. 
This latter idea of an autonomous yet managed UCAV is a step that is needed before a next generation of UCAVs that are completely autonomous becomes viable. The solution provides the best of both worlds: the advantages of having a pilot who can utilize split second decisions around a complex air battle particularly near the battle area is combined with the advantages of higher G-force dexterity of UCAVs along with gains in stealth, agility and lack of casualty vulnerability. 
We do not also wish to have a UCAV running loose with no idea where it is, what it can do and how to stop it. 
Missile Launched





The basic configuration for the proposed UCAV is similar to the Babar Cruise Missile; truck mounted and boosted into its flight profile. The payload is larger and the missile needed to boost the payload to a high-high profile at close to 50,000 feet will also equivalently be larger. This will allow the PAF added strategic risk mitigation, as keeping UCAVs in airfields will put PAF assets in relatively fewer locations, all of which are essentially open to attack. 
Threat mitigation is of vital importance given that Pakistani airfields being relatively close to the border and the neighborhood is bristling with PGMs and standoff munitions. 
The missile-launched will also enable the aircraft to have a lower fuel-to-weight ratio as a significant fuel load is expended between takeoff and reaching combat altitude / speed. This can often be as high as 20-30% of fuel capacity. Since the UCAV will be placed in a high-high profile at 50,000 feet, this will provide a significant advantage in terms of reaching engineering parameters for the aircraft. Further, no compromises would be needed related to aerodynamic optimization; a turbojet optimized solely for a high-high profile would be highly efficient.
Recovery can be achieved by parachute and assisted with dispersed pre-designated locations with receiving nets. These can be coupled with nearby reload and quick turnaround capabilities. 
Turbojet Engine
Turbojet engines are considered to be near obsolete in combat aircraft today. However, they have a number of characteristics which make them ideal for the proposed UCAV design. Firstly, turbojet engines are simpler to build and manufacture. The metallurgy and technology needed is less stringent. This is of key importance with respect to Pakistan, given that Pakistan does not have experience building aircraft engines. 
On a second point, for a high altitude and high speed profile, a given size and weight of engine, holding everything else constant, turbojets match or exceed turbofan engines. The downside is that turbojet engines are significantly less efficient in other flight profiles which are invariably part of the traditional combat aircraft&#8217;s flight; takeoff, loiter, low-mid altitude flight, low speed flight and landing. Consider that for many older generation turbojet engines, to takeoff and reach combat speeds and altitude, 20%-30% of fuel is consumed. However the issue is resolved given that the UCAV will be put into its high-high flight profile by a missile delivery system.
The designated turbojet engine would not need to match the same MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) which is often significantly smaller for a turbojet compared to a similarly classed turbofan. This is because UCAVs do not need training and regular interception duties in an auxiliary role for the PAF. This should also allow leeway in the materials utilized for manufacturing, significantly bringing costs down and increasing power-to-weight ratios. 
Further, ceteris paribus, a turbojet engine exposes less frontal area than turbofan engines, an important characteristic for stealth. It may also be noted that the F-22 engines, while turbofans, are closer to turbojets than its other contemporary combat aircraft peers; the F-22 engines have very low aspect ratios and are designed with this feature specifically to take advantage of a high-high flight profile. 
BVR Focus
The focus has been on emphasizing on high-high f-pole BVR engagement because UCAVs are still lacking in an ability to engage in within visual range air combat maneuvering. This also allows us to dispense with the need for artificial intelligence. Instead, it may be adequate to utilize algorithms and "blind computation" i.e. alpha beta pruning instead. 
Nevertheless, a look at Artificial Neural Networks (ANN) may not be out of place, given that it has been successfully applied in a wide variety of industries including UAVs.[4] 

Asymmetric Sensor Payload & Practical Stealth
To keep costs at a minimum, sensors such as radar and IRST can be carried in asymmetric sensor payloads; some UCAVs carrying one, while others carrying another. The sensors themselves are merely an addition as the UAVs would rely on other platforms to supplement their own sensors. Similarly, while stealth may be incorporated into the design from the ground up, it may prove to be financially prudent to be heavily biased towards costs over low observability. 

Target Specifications
A broad set of target parameters indicating a technical sketch of the ML-UCAV&#8217;s needed capabilities are indicated below.

Combat load: 600-900 kg (4-6 BVR AAMs)
Wing loading: 300-330 kg/m2 
Maximum speed: 2.00 &#8211; 2.25 Mach
Maximum g-load: 12-15 g
Combat Altitude: 15,000 &#8211; 20,000 m 

Analysis
Given the ability today of remotely launching AAMs and the highly sensor rich environment over Pakistani air space in the timeframe of deployment, such auxiliaries would provide a cheap force multiplier for Pakistan. The strategy would allow Pakistan to take advantage of the technology changes that have taken place and utilize Pakistan&#8217;s technological and industrial strengths. UCAVs would also allow Pakistan to simultaneously counter both the numerical and qualitative enjoyed by the IAF. The high-high profile of the UCAV would allow ideal BVR conditions against not only conventional targets but also stealthy targets; given that stealth planes provide some of the worst RCS from the top. 
Reliance on PAF airfields would also be lowered, with UCAV assets being flexibly deployed anywhere. The UCAV would balance the PAF manned fighter force by providing a high-high platform to synergize with the mid-low level optimized fighters such as JF-17 and F-16s. UCAVs would add a new dimension for the PAF to employ and the IAF to counter. As the RAND Corporation notes:
Aerospace power will tend to perform best when the desired outcome involves affecting adversary behavior rather than seizing and holding terrain.
This is exactly the outcome that the proposed UCAV is projected to achieve; providing a near-perfect combination of technological and operational. 
On the down side, the proposed UCAVs would comparatively lack situational awareness. While we have attempted to moderate this factor with a BVR focus and a solution slaved to manned fighters, in the presence of a loss of communication in the battle space, perhaps instigated by enemy EW, the UCAVs can prove to be more vulnerable than their manned counterparts, who may still be able to improvise. Furthermore, in the event that the enemy is able to exploit a weakness, the UCAVs would be unable to respond until adequate software upgrades. On the other hand, since the UCAVs would only be employed during war, the opportunity to find those weaknesses, both for the home side and the enemy are limited. Ballistic launch of UCAVs also brings the hazard of being mistaken as a nuclear assault. The recognition of the existence of such weapons would make any possibilities of a misunderstanding a non-issue.
Expanding the arms race between India and Pakistan in a new dimension must also be carefully considered, given the strength of India&#8217;s IT sector and Israel&#8217;s UAV sector, the latter being a close ally of the former. This would mean going against the enemy on territory it has a relative technological and industrial advantage. Appendix I and II provide a SWOT analysis and a diagrammatic look at some of the strengths of this proposal. 




Conclusion
UCAVs are an emerging technology that has the potential to revolutionize air warfare. While the 5th generation of combat planes is today the pinnacle of military aviation, UCAVs present paradigms that can complement manned fighters of the 4th and 5th generations. While most nations struggle to keep their 4th generation aircraft operational and can barely dream about 5th generation solutions, UCAVs provide an interesting paradigm shift that cannot be ignored by those entrusted with the defense of their nations. Our ML-UCAV concept provides many of the benefits of SAMs and manned fighters, while mitigating their disadvantages. For Pakistan, UCAVs may be the only realistic way to counter a large number of PAKFAs and possibly other 4th and 5th generation planes sitting across the border.
In the Grande Strategic view, PAF could use large numbers of UCAVs as a cheap and ideal counter for IAF&#8217;s quantitative and qualitative edge, while maximizing the limited financial resources available to the country. IAF would be put off-balance in attempting to assess an asymmetric threat that neither she nor the rest of the world has experienced. Combined with manned fighters, EW assets, Long Range SAMs and other assets, the UAVs would provide a force multiplier effect over the entire Pakistani IADS. 
Armed with 4-6 BVRs, the UCAVs could prove to become the foot soldier of the sky, lightly armed and yet overwhelming in their numbers, guarding the parameters while allowing manned PAF fighters the flexibility to enter and exit the air battle at their choosing.

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## HavocHeaven

Did PAF order Pterodactyl I UAV? Chief designer of Pterodactyl I told Chinese media some Pterodactyl I UAVs have been ordered and delivered to a foreign country. Was that Pakistan? J/W.


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## MaqsoodAhmad

i think that PAF was reportedly opted for 20 CH-3 UAVs with AR-1 missiles


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## a1b2c145

*The two videos below show how they launching missiles and bombs.*

Chinese Yi Long UAV &#65288;AVIC&#65289;
[video]http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzA2OTg3NzQw.html[/video]

Chinese CH-3A UAV 
[video]http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjIzNDUyNDcy.html[/video]


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## SBD-3

Feast your eyes

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## DESERT FIGHTER

hasnain0099 said:


> Feast your eyes



Already know tht bro..anyways thanks again!


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## SBD-3

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Already know tht bro..anyways thanks again!


I also knew it, but the status was vague, the word "being sold" means that the deal is either done or very close to be done....Thats why....


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## regular

Yes nice drones...But I'm amazed the drone tech is not so difficult that we couldn't make them by our own....


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## SBD-3

regular said:


> Yes nice drones...But I'm amazed the drone tech is not so difficult that we couldn't make them by our own....


UCAVs with the capability to conduct missions at very long ranges are the most challenging to design......Pakistani Drone manufacturing is maturing....hope some day your wish will also materialize, but today is not that day

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## fatman17

Falco UAV is the preferred choice of the PAF and has been used extensively.....the army is inducting the chinese CH-3 armed AV which can fire the HJ-10 or a chinese version (forgetting the designation) of the Hellfire AGM-114. these will be operated by the PAA.


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## DANGER-ZONE

fatman17 said:


> Falco UAV is the preferred choice of the PAF and has been used extensively.....the army is inducting the chinese CH-3 armed AV which can fire the HJ-10 or a chinese version (forgetting the designation) of the Hellfire AGM-114. these will be operated by the PAA.


its KD-10 or HJ-10. u r right 
Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

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## Cool_Soldier

There were rumors last month that first Ch-3 was landed at Masror air base but no confirmation yet.
There are also no news about Buraq status.In 2009 it was stated that plane is being flight tested.

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## Manticore

we got another candidate for ch3 weaponry

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## Xracer

CH-3 Unmanned Aerial Vehicle UAV

General information:


CH-3 UAV with tricycle landing gear is capable of automatic take-off landing. CH-3 UAV is equipped with reliable active positioning system, anti-jamming data-link system and multipurpose reconnaissance system. It can be applied in operations such as battlefield reconnaissance, data-link, intelligence collection and electronic warfare. In addition, it can be equipped with precision guided weapon to complete reconnaissance and strike missions.

Features:

Strong fire-power against massive attack
Super anti-jamming capability
Multi-sensor engagement
Sophisticated high performance missile
Excellent very low altitude interception
All-weather operation
Performance improving based on serialization for potential threats

Specifications:

Wingspan: 8 m
Length: 5.5 m
Height: 2.4 m
Maximum take-off weight: 640 kg
Payload capacity: 100 kg
Cruising altitude: 3000 - 5000 m
Celing: 6000 m
Operating radius: 200 km
Cruising speed: 220 km/h
Maximum level speed: 260 km/h
Maximum endurance: 12 h










---------- Post added at 06:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 PM ----------

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## Cool_Soldier

Is this above ist Pic in China?
Any confirmation of Ch-3 arrival in PAF?


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## fatman17

Cool_Soldier said:


> Is this above ist Pic in China?
> Any confirmation of Ch-3 arrival in PAF?



will be operated by army aviation.


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## SBD-3

fatman17 said:


> will be operated by army aviation.


I was wondering that instead of all three branches having separate drone operations why dont they have sort of joint command and operation structure?


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## TaimiKhan

hasnain0099 said:


> I was wondering that instead of all three branches having separate drone operations why dont they have sort of joint command and operation structure?



Need of the day. If they can't have joint command, atleast they can do is sit down and select UAVs which has usage for all of them together, in that way, certains UAV designs can be mass produced, lowering cost and operational easiness. Taking example of Falco UAV, it is good for Air Force, Army can use it as well, and with 12-14Hr flying time with some modifications why can't the Navy use it too. Thus PAC can produce them in numbers, cost will be down and we can research into better versions of the same. 

Then comes Uqab UAV, again all the forces can use that too. Special forces of all the 3 arms can use lighter version of UAVs for their tasks.

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## Riz

Well i have heard a news on one of news channel, that pakistan have conducted test of 3 uav's capable of flying at 20000 feet any one knows about it ?

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## SEAL

^^^^Thats correct man, 
Pakistan have conducted test of 3 UAV equipped with high tech cameras they can fly upto 20,000ft and their ranges are 250km. 600km and 1500KM. Aaj News

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## S-A-B-E-R->

Falco have approx 16,400 feet alt so this one is a bigger system

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## Manticore

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/119664-military-uav-designs-4.html

based on altitude

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## fatman17

so PK mainly has tactical UAV's in its inventory - Falco, CH-3 etc.


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## bilal

iran has captured there new sentinal drone iranian say the have jamed it and fell fron sky how did it servive the crash if it can fly so high?


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## bilal

have any pic or vid of buraq?


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## TrMhMt

HAIDER said:


> Here you go sir



It seems awesome !!!

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## jawadqamar

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> Falco have approx 16,400 feet alt so this one is a bigger system



*Falco UAV , Pakistan
*

The Falco UAV flys at a height of *6,500m* (21325) and can carry a maximum payload of 70kg. It has the capacity to fly at a maximum speed of 60m/s with an *endurance of eight to14 hours*. It is powered by a single 49kW (65hp) gasoline engine to provide required electricity for the aircraft during its operation in air.

It is also building an upgrade kit to increase the UAV's payload capacity to 120kg and endurance to 18 hours with a maximum take-off weight of 750kg.

*Uqaab Tactical Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV)* *can go as high as 10,000 ft*

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## razgriz19

bilal said:


> iran has captured there new sentinal drone iranian say the have jamed it and fell fron sky how did it servive the crash if it can fly so high?



i read it somewhere that Iranians were able to take over the controls of the UAV and they landed it safely without damaging it.
however i doubt that Iran has that much capability, but since UAV is intact im having second thoughts about it...
maybe Iranians have come a lot further than we think they are...


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## bubble123

razgriz19 said:


> i read it somewhere that Iranians were able to take over the controls of the UAV and they landed it safely without damaging it.
> however i doubt that Iran has that much capability, but since UAV is intact im having second thoughts about it...
> maybe Iranians have come a lot further than we think they are...



but the video they showed of drone it was fake wasn't it ?


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## bilal

well about about iranni tec they good in bulding missiles but not in aircrafts but irani are hard working guy i know many they will
soon stand with us in tec.but the dron on the other had could be fake come on usa came in pk killed Osama and left.and we even seen or heard them coming  so iran captured drone is fake.

---------- Post added at 11:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 AM ----------

is it a UCAV? got any specs?

---------- Post added at 11:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------




bilal said:


> well about about iranni tec they good in bulding missiles but not in aircrafts but irani are hard working guy i know many they will
> soon stand with us in tec.but the dron on the other had could be fake come on usa came in pk killed Osama and left.and we even seen or heard them coming  so iran captured drone is fake.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 AM ----------
> 
> is it a UCAV? got any specs?


 
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------




TrMhMt said:


> It seems awesome !!!




is it a UCAV? got any specs


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## monitor

*Pakistan hacks drone technology*
Can force it to land 
By Ashraf Ansari

Islamabad&#8212; Pakistan has been able to hack drone technology to the extent that it can now command transgressing drone to land in Pakistan, reliable sources told Pakistan Observer.

This achievement by Pakistan is utmost significant amid desperate scenario that emerged as a result of attacks inside Pakistan by the United States CIA operated drones despite persistent calls from Islamabad for end to such provocations.

Experts in Pakistan believe that the only 'positive aspect' of the 2 May Abbottabad episode relating to the killing of Osama bin Laden was reported crashing of a Stealth helicopter. 

Pakistani experts seemed to have become aware for the first time, of the fact that there was Stealth helicopters besides Stealth aeroplanes. They are believed to have been able to decode or decipher the programming and sensitive technology applied to making and operationalisation of Stealth air-machines. 

Sources said the knowledge gained by Pakistanis from the wreckage of Stealth helicopter secured from Abbotabad might have helped the Pakistani experts in developing insight about the programming and remote controlling of the CIA operated drones. This critical technological insight led Pakistani experts to decode sensitive gadgetry of the drones.

When asked about the impact of Pakistan&#8217;s newly acquired capability to safely bring the violating CIA operated drones to ground on Pakistan soil, the experts minced no words and said exuberantly that Pakistan had come into possession of a trump card in terms of "strategic imperatives". Through "newly acquired technological capability", Pakistani experts would also be able "to decode intricate gadgetry of new generation of weapons" being developed by the US.

Pakistan achieved marvelous success in decoding of stealth and drone gadgetries on the heals of downing in Iran of a US drone on 8 December. Iran refused to succumb to US pressure for the return of the drone despite call by President Obama to his Iranian counterpart Ahmedi Nejad.

Although this article outlines three of the most significant goals of our EW strategy, that is having this capability is a , "strategic imperatives/ unavoidable obligation", "force land" and "decode intricate gadgetry of new generation of weapons".

Pakistani is still long way to seek knowledge and effectiveness in Electronic Warfare for Military Digital Development (MDD).
Pakistan hacks drone technology

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## Najam Khan

monitor said:


> *Pakistan hacks drone technology*
> Can force it to land
> By Ashraf Ansari
> 
> Islamabad Pakistan has been able to hack drone technology to the extent that it can now *command transgressing drone to land in Pakistan, reliable sources told Pakistan Observer.*


Multi-layered security firewall and secure transfer of information makes Drones prone to such attacks. Hacking a website/computer/computer network is a different thing, hacking into a strategic asset requires to much effort and accuracy...the best part is that, if the victim becomes aware then everything is over... definitely he will retaliate..considering Pakistan's position in WoT, i doubt we would ever take such risk.

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## yyetttt

Considering that this UCAV has been test flighted, I still haven't seen even 1 accurate picture. 

Most "Burraq Images" are really CH-3's or some fanboy stuff.

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## killerx




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## Manticore

^ thats made by me in under 5 minutes

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## nomi007

please any tell that
are we are operating EMT Luna X-2000 (german uav)
look at this and explain


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## nomi007

Luna X 2000 UAV for reconnaissance and ESM missions of the German Army






---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 PM ----------

Luna X 2000 UAV for reconnaissance and ESM missions of the German Army


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## TaimiKhan

nomi007 said:


> please any tell that
> are we are operating EMT Luna X-2000 (german uav)
> look at this and explain



PA has been operating the LUNA UAV for many years now, they were inducted during Musharaf's time period.

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## nomi007

TaimiKhan said:


> PA has been operating the LUNA UAV for many years now, they were inducted during Musharaf's time period.


any official verification proof


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## Saifullah Sani

just saw the news on Dawn TV that Pakistan is manufacturing missile equipped Drones at PAC

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## Sinnerman108

nomi007 said:


> any official verification proof



that is correct.
Luna was finally passed in mushy's time, If i am not wrong I think it was 2006/7 or 2005/06 ... my memory is fading regarding the date.


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## Riz

Saifullah Sani said:


> just saw the news on Dawn TV that Pakistan is manufacturing missile equipped Drones at PAC



Its name will be Shahpur not Buraq......


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## BelligerentPacifist

^King's Wings. Cool!


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## Oldman1

Should buy some of these.
X 47B UCAS " You can never hide again" First Cruise Flight - YouTube


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## Saifullah Sani

riz1978 said:


> Its name will be Shahpur not Buraq......


Buraq sounds cool


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## SamranAli

cool we r making.


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## mughaljee

i also this news at Dawn tv news. Some one have any further detail.


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## killerx

is should be as capable as predators for sure or not any good


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## Major Sam

any update?


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## nomi007

USA drone crash in qaziristan

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## Imran Khan

nomi007 said:


> USA drone crash in qaziristan



engine is ok .but i know we will give them back


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## nomi007

Imran Khan said:


> engine is ok .but i know we will give them back


totally agree


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## nomi007

is pakistan using rq-7 shadow uav
wikipedia is showing that we give the order of these uavs in past
what is the progress


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## Nishan_101

So how many UAVs does we have and do we have a long range UAV like Falco in PN as they really need that one????? I am sure that the NAvy along with army and airforce will going to use BURRAQ


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## fatman17

*China Eyes Pakistan for Armed Drones Sales*

11 July 2011 

China has increased its research in drone technology and is in the process of building armed, jet-propelled unmanned planes with plans to sell to countries like Pakistan.

The Washington Post quoted Chinese analysts as saying, "No country has ramped up its research in recent years faster than China ... but now every major manufacturer for the Chinese military has a research centre devoted to drones."

The large number of drones displayed at the recent exhibitions underlines China's determination and desire to sell the technology in the international market.

The Chengdu Aircraft Design and Research Institute representative Zhang Qiaoliang said, "The United States doesn't export many attack drones, so we're taking advantage of that hole in the market."

Zhang also added that the company anticipated sales in Pakistan, the Middle East and African nations.

Pakistan had earlier purchased one surveillance drone from China and has plans to acquire additional armed drones.

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## ZELEGEND

Have any pictures of NESCOM'S Burraq been released to public yet?

Best regards


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## nomi007

ZELEGEND said:


> Have any pictures of NESCOM'S Burraq been released to public yet?
> 
> Best regards


i think chinese ch-3 will be burraq
2nd no 1 even see h-2 and h-4 missiles that nescom made


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## embedded_engineer

UAV development is the most hot topic in the defense industry of Pakistan these days and almost all of the new tech budget is getting spent on developing them. Payload carrying is the most trickiest of tasks but we can see our own drones coming out with our own weapons installed on them pretty soon!


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## HANI

embedded_engineer said:


> UAV development is the most hot topic in the defense industry of Pakistan these days and almost all of the new tech budget is getting spent on developing them. Payload carrying is the most trickiest of tasks but we can see our own drones coming out with our own weapons installed on them pretty soon!


Any source dude or just your perceptions????????


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## Rana4pak




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## RiazHaq

Here's an excerpt of a PRI report on Pakistani drones:

Reports of Pakistan working on producing its own drones began to surface in 2009. The most highly touted model is called the Burraq, named for a mythical winged creature that is said to have carried the Prophet Muhammed.

Masood said the military is working hard on it, but theres still no guarantee it will be flying anytime soon.

I think they are on a high priority. There is no doubt about it, they are on a high priority. But even if a weapons system is on a high priority because of the complexity and the advanced nature of its technology it may take some time before it is mastered and its full utilization is made.

In fact, Pakistan already has a long history of designing and producing drones, many of them created by a man named Raja Sabri Khan.

His near obsession with unmanned aircraft started at a young age. Khan found himself compelled to do whatever it took to fund his research.

I augmented my nonexistent earnings by teaching physics and doing fashion photography so these helped Pakistans first drones to be created, Khan said.

His clear preference for model aircraft over fashion models carried Khan to the top of his industry. In fact, he said hes sold his unarmed drones to a company he does not want to name in the United States.

Khan said the drones flying in American airspace are being used for law enforcement, security and even search and rescue.

But he is adamantly opposed to arming drones because of the risk that innocent people will be harmed.

Still, Khan expects Pakistans political and military leaders will push ahead, seeing a missile firing drone as nothing more than the latest airborne weapon of war.

I feel bombing civilians is unfair, he said. Its something that cannot be condoned. But at the same time, a drone is nothing more than an aircraft without a pilot [on board]. And if you use it to fight a war, I think political considerations far outweigh the idealistic side of the issue.

There is another potential side effect of Pakistans determination to manufacture its own drone fleet. Talat Masood said China has become a key partner in the development of the Burraq drone.

Masood said the US, which has cooperated with the Pakistani military on joint projects and training for years, should be paying attention.

So you can see how lasting those bonds are. And any country which has a defense relationship which is strong and binding, then the relationship also becomes very lasting, he said.

Pakistan Building its Own Drones | PRI's The World


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## nomi007

where are those destroyed drones at this time
did we return them as usual or there are under study


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## ababeel22

Just a personal opinion that i wld like to share with you all (may seem like complete BS to many of u) ---------the current violations of Pakistani sovereignty by the US is fueling a major revolution that is going to take place in pakistani drone manufacturing industry in the coming 5 to 10 years and this would be led by the pakistani youth itself. pakistani people want the government to do something about these air space violations by The US but due to various reasons ( not being technologically able to counter it is 1 big reason) the govt hasn't done any thing, now out of this frustration of not being able to do anything many have taken the job in their own hands and are trying to do the best they can. what I think is gonna result in pakistani drone technology becoming one of the best in the world (some 5 to 7 years from now) is that pakistani ppl noe that they have to come up with something as good as us drones. but of course this is gonna happen only if even a semi honest government is in the center.


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## UmarJustice

Defence Minister Naveed Qamars statement that Pakistan intends to build its own drone system, which is presently in its initial stage, will certainly raise eyebrows in a few world capitals. The drone aircraft would prove to be a useful weapon to fight terrorists like Al-Qaeda, Afghan and Pakistani Taliban, who are out to destabilize the country by launching attacks while hiding in the mountainous terrain of Fata. So far, CIA-operated drones have been carrying out operations against, what are termed safe havens from where militants are accused of attacking foreign troops stationed in Afghanistan. Islamabad while seeking a halt to drone strikes in line with the parliaments recommendations has, on several occasions asked the US to make drones available to it to enable it to more effectively attack terrorist hideouts, but in vain.It was in 2004 that the Kamra Rebuild Factory came out with an indigenous design of drones. Later, three more versions of it were designed. Kamra sought permission from the Ministry of Defence that was denied for unknown reasons. Now, the Defence Minister has indicated that Pakistan intends to start production of its own drones. Media reports suggest that there already have been several successful test flights of the pilot-less plane. One wonders why the request for production was denied, in the first place. We must equip our forces with latest weapons to make them a strong, modern fighting force.

Pakistan

*Pakistan readies production of UAVs*

KARACHI, Pakistan, Sept. 20 (UPI) -- Pakistan Defense Minister Syed Naveed Qamar said Pakistan intends to build unmanned aerial vehicles.

Qamar made the statement in discussions with Pakistani media, the News International reported Thursday.

Pakistan's indigenous UAV industry is centered on the state-owned defense enterprise Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra, east of Islamabad.

PAC has begun manufacturing Falco UAVs in collaboration with the Italian company Selex Galileo. While initially the Falco UAV system is designed purely for aerial reconnaissance and information gathering, PAC intends the vehicles eventually to be upgraded to be equipped with weapon systems to carry out offensive operations, similar to U.S. UAVs.

Pakistan originally wanted to buy UAVs from the United States but Islamabad was rebuffed in its requests, leading PAC to attempt to develop an indigenous variant. However, technical issues have slowed development of the Pakistani program.

Pakistan's aviation firms have been involved in manufacturing smaller UAVs for years, with Pakistan's Integrated Dynamics firm producing small UAVs for the government and commercial market since 1997.

Other Pakistani companies working on UAV issues include Surveillance and Target Unmanned Aircraft (Satuma) and East West Infiniti, while state-owned aviation firms produce UAVs include the Air Weapons Complex National Development Complex as well as the PAC.

But the PAC complex is the main driver behind Pakistan's UAV development. The massive PAC facility, the world's seventh largest assembly plant, is in Kamra in Punjab province, and assembles and manufactures aircraft for Pakistan's armed forces.

"PAC has acquired the capability to produce Falco XN UAV in collaboration with Selex Galileo (SG) of Italy," PAC's website states. "The UAV is a medium-altitude, long-endurance UAV designed for area reconnaissance and point surveillance.

"It has the capability to reveal targets of interest, classify them, calculate their coordinates and determine the distances between them."

In describing the Falco XN UAV, the website added: "The UAV has a high-wing monoplane connected to the central fuselage. The wing assembly is equipped with flapperons to control the lift and lateral dynamics. Tail-planes comprising two rudders and two elevators provide control for directional and longitudinal dynamics and are connected to the wing assembly through the tail-booms. ...

"The payload is mounted on the stabilized platform of the UAV and is managed through an advance Payload Management System and an Electro-Optical suite. The Electro-Optical suite includes E/O Camera, IR sensors, Thermal Imaging Systems, Laser Designator and a Surveillance Radar."

While the PAC website makes no mention of possible exports plans for the Falco XN UAV's it nevertheless touts the UAV's characteristics, noting that it is "capable of carrying wide variety of payloads; easily adaptable to meet mission requirements," has an "effective guidance and control system, suitable for both civil and military roles, mission pre-planning, re-tasking, simulation, rehearsal, and play back" and "can be flown in manual and automatic modes."

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2012/09/20/Pakistan-readies-production-of-UAVs/UPI-51871348165951/#ixzz274zwPRNO


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## fjavaid

If Iran and achieve this then where are our institutions .. we hv been working for so much time on this technology
@http://m.guardiannews.com/world/2012/sep/25/iran-new-military-drone-israel?cat=world&type=article
"
Iran has flexed its military might by showing off what it claims is a new "indigenous" reconnaissance drone capable of reaching Israel and launching a series of anti-warship missiles in the Persian Gulf.
In what appears to be a reaction to the recent naval exercise in the region by the US and its allies, Iran's elite revolutionary guards have unveiled an unmanned aerial vehicle, called Shahed-129 (or Witness-129), which is claimed to have a range of up to 2000 kilometres and capable of 24 hour flight."


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## [--Leo--]

Today in the Geo news that came up that pakistan has made the drone so what was the point of telling it?
can any buddy share the detail of that news please


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## fatman17

*Pakistan developing combat drones*


Islamabad, which publicly condemns attacks by US drones on militants in tribal areas by the Afghan border, has built its own

Email Jon Boone in Karachi guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 13 November 2012


Pakistan is on the cusp of joining an elite group of countries capable of manufacturing unmanned aircraft capable of killing as well as spying, a senior defence official has claims.

Publicly, Islamabad, which officially objects to lethal drone strikes carried out by the CIA along its border with Afghanistan, says it is only developing remote-controlled aircraft for surveillance purposes.

But last week, during a major arms fair held in Karachi, military officials briefed some of Pakistan's closest allies about efforts by the army to develop its own combat unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV).

"The foreign delegates were quite excited by what Pakistan has achieved," said the official, who was closely involved with organising the four-day International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (Ideas). "They were briefed about a UAV that can be armed and has the capability to carry a weapon payload."

The official said Pakistan wanted to demonstrate to friendly countries, principally Turkey and the Gulf, that it can be self-sufficient in a technology that is revolutionising warfare and which is currently dominated by a handful of countries that do not readily share the capability.

"It does not have the efficiency and performance as good as Predator," he said, referring to the US combat drone widely used to attack militant targets. "But it does exist."

He gave no details about the capabilities of the aircraft, or even its name.

Huw Williams, an expert on unmanned systems at Jane's Defence Weekly, expressed doubts that Pakistan could have succeeded in progressing very far from the "pretty basic" small reconnaissance drones, which the country publicly exhibited at the weapons show, including the Shahpar and Uqab aircraft developed by the state-owned consortium Global Industrial and Defence Solutions.

"The smaller systems are not greatly beyond that of a model aircraft," he said. "But the larger, long-endurance drones are a step up in technology across the board."

Only the US and Israel are currently believed to have drones that can fire missiles. China and Turkey are also working on large-scale combat drones.

Both countries exhibited models of drones at the sprawling Karachi conference centre, which included Pakistani companies marketing everything from guns that shoot around corners to inflatable tanks intended to fox surveillance aircraft.

The big claims about Pakistan's developing drone capacity highlights the enormous interest in the technology from armies around the world.

"Everyone has been asking us whether our drones can carry weapons," said Raja Sabri Khan, chief executive of Integrated Dynamics, a company that showed off a wide range of small and mid-size reconnaissance drones. "But that's a business for the big boys only."

Khan has been deliberately refocusing his company's efforts on smaller drones, many of which are launched by hand, which are mostly intended for civilian use.

A Pakistani army colonel attending the exhibition, after recently finishing a tour fighting against militants in the country's border region, said such small drones were a vital tool.

"We have these small drones, but not enough of them and we do not always get them when we have operations," said the colonel, who did not wish to be named. "They are excellent for observing the Taliban, their movements and deployments."

It was the seventh arms fair hosted by Pakistan intended to show off the country's defence industry.

Organisers conceded that this year had not been a major commercial success but were pleased with the turnout after the last event in 2010 had to be cancelled.

Several exhibitors said Pakistani companies &#8211; many of which are directly owned by the country's military &#8211; offered a cheaper alternative to developing countries looking to buy everything from tanks to computer simulators used to train pilots.


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## The Deterrent

^ Here the Burraq UCAV is being referred to. Burraq was to be displayed this year at IDEAS, but was pulled off the list a couple of days before, because some indigenous components are still to be integrated with it (including an indigenous AGM).
Regards.


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## Safriz

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.p...-armed-forces&catid=112:ideas-2012&Itemid=249

ntegrated Dynamics, a privately owned unmanned aerial vehicle company, has sold ten unmanned aerial vehicle systems to the Pakistan Armed Forces for perimeter surveillance, during the International Defence Exhibition and Seminar being held in the coastal city of Karachi.

Raja Sabri Khan, Chief Executive of Integrated Dynamics, said that ten Skycam systems had been bought by the Pakistan Armed Forces. The Skycam is a hand-launched micro-unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) that can fly at an altitude of 300+ metres over a range of 5 to ten kilometres. A complete Skycam system comprises two UAVs with cameras, a ground control station, data and communication links and antennas. The Skycam costs $1 000. Speed is 10-30 km/h and endurance is 30 minutes.

Karachi-based Integrated Dynamics in the past produced UAVs primarily for the Pakistani military but is now moving into the civil arena, where it is focusing on markets like law enforcement, surveillance, surveying etc. The company manufactures 15 different UAVs, most of which are small &#8211; the smallest weighs just 800 grams. 

Khan said that his company has exported its products to such places as the United States, Australia, Spain, Libya and South Korea. The Border Eagle system is being used by the United States for border patrol. Khan added that potential South African customers had approached the company regarding the use of its UAVs for anti-poaching missions. However, no sales have yet been forthcoming from South Africa.

Khan emphasised the peaceful nature of UAVs, saying the vast majority are built without weapons. The company has launched its Drones for Peace initiative, which is a collaboration between academia and Integrated Dynamics to showcase the peaceful uses of UAVs and other unmanned vehicles to the general public.

A wide variety of Integrated Dynamics&#8217; UAVs were on display at IDEAS 2012, including its Skycam 1 and 2 lightweight vehicles and Hummer vertical takeoff and landing UAV. These are being promoted under the Drones for Peace project. The UAVs can carry cameras or thermal sensors. Both platforms weigh less than 2 kg.

Some of Integrated Dynamics UAVs include the Desert Hawk, Border Eagle, Hornet, Hawk, Vision, Shadow and Vector systems, designed for conventional landing and take-off, but which can be modified for ramp-launch and parachute recovery systems. 

Target and decoy UAVs include the mini jet-powered Tornado decoy, piston Nishan Mk II and jet-powered Nishan TJ-1000. Integrated Dynamics&#8217; main civilian products are the Rover and Explorer systems, which can be operated in both UAV and RPV (Remotely Piloted Vehicle) modes.

Pakistan&#8217;s UAV industry is fairly well developed and is expanding rapidly. Several companies produce UAVs, including Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (Uqaab, for the Pakistan Army and Ababeel and Baaz target drones), Air Weapons Complex (Bravo+/Jasoos II for the Pakisitan Air Force) and Integrated Defence Solutions (Huma-1). In collaboration with Selex Galileo, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has started manufacturing the Falco UAV.

Privately owned UAV firms include Satuma (Surveillance and Target Unmanned Aircraft), which produces UAVs like the Flamingo, Jasoos, Bravo+ and Mukhbar.

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## Kompromat

AhaseebA said:


> ^ Here the Burraq UCAV is being referred to. Burraq was to be displayed this year at IDEAS, but was pulled off the list a couple of days before, because some indigenous components are still to be integrated with it (including an indigenous AGM).
> Regards.




Roughly, what size would it be and when would it be unveiled? - What about weapons and sensors, are the imported or locally made?


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## mjnaushad

AhaseebA said:


> ^ Here the Burraq UCAV is being referred to. Burraq was to be displayed this year at IDEAS, but was pulled off the list a couple of days before, because some indigenous components are still to be integrated with it (including an indigenous AGM).
> Regards.



speculation or source?


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## Luftwaffe

What is Pakistan developing MQ-1/9/C? Why is it kept so secret. Too late, Pakistan should now invest in Yi Long UCAV And Or Pterodactyl drone.

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## The Deterrent

Aeronaut said:


> Roughly, what size would it be and when would it be unveiled? - What about weapons and sensors, are the imported or locally made?



It is ready, but with some imported components of the airframe. Hopefully it would be developed completely within a year. It is based on a foreign (speculating chinese CH-3 here) uav, so don't expect too much. The similarity of design was one of the reasons of not exhibiting it this year. In case anyone hasn't noticed, Shahpar UAV's airframe also closely resembles that of the CH-3.
The weapon (AGM) is indigenous (not entirely of course) and is in advanced stage of development. Datalinks and mission computer are locally developed, but don't know much about the sensors. 
P.S. Nobody should get his hopes too high.



mjnaushad said:


> speculation or source?



Source is NESCOM.

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## The Deterrent

Luftwaffe said:


> What is Pakistan developing MQ-1/9/C? Why is it kept so secret. Too late, Pakistan should now invest in Yi Long UCAV And Or Pterodactyl drone.



It is not about secrecy, they just don't disclose the details of a system before it is completely developed. Moreover, Burraq is the learning step for Pakistan, and we just don't have that highly trained engineers who can work with AVIC to joint-venture Wing Loong / Pterodactyl.

Do you really think that Pakistan can strike TTP by just having some really good UCAVs? A whole setup of real-time Ground Surveillance using satellites and communication interceptors is required for successful missions. And I don't think that era of UCAVs vs. Tanks has arrived yet (against India).

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## SEAL

AhaseebA said:


> It is ready, but with some imported components of the airframe. Hopefully it would be developed completely within a year. It is based on a foreign (speculating chinese CH-3 here) uav, so don't expect too much. The similarity of design was one of the reasons of not exhibiting it this year. In case anyone hasn't noticed, Shahpar UAV's airframe also closely resembles that of the CH-3.
> The weapon (AGM) is indigenous (not entirely of course) and is in advanced stage of development. Datalinks and mission computer are locally designed, but don't know much about the sensors.
> P.S. Nobody should get his hopes too high.
> 
> 
> 
> Source is NESCOM.



Predator jyse hoti to zaida acha hota.


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## Thorough Pro

A very important element of an integrated UAV/UCAV system with decent range is a satelite which can act as a communication bridge between control station and the bird. We will not see a fully functional effective UAV/UCAV systemuntill our GPS satellite does not become fully functional (reported earlier to be functionalby June 2013).

Untill then it's all talk


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## TVVELVEMO$

If I may make a recommendation, Pakistan should put away all the aforementioned unremarkable toy UAVs and move up to the CH-*4* [NOT CH-3]; now that look like serious stuff...IYKWIM. When that thing flies, it will be the most Reaper-esque drone Chinese have come up with. Maybe after wasting some money & time on CH-3, Pakistan will trade up to CH-*4*. So many toys and so little money to choose with.......


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## The Deterrent

Conceal Carry said:


> A very important element of an integrated UAV/UCAV system with decent range is a satelite which can act as a communication bridge between control station and the bird. We will not see a fully functional effective UAV/UCAV systemuntill our GPS satellite does not become fully functional (reported earlier to be functionalby June 2013).
> 
> Untill then it's all talk



Not necessarily. Satellite based datalinks are necessary for UAVs operating too far away from the control stations (like some MQ-9s are controlled by operators in UK and USA).
For Pakistan to control UAVs inside Pakistan is no big deal, datalinks can be provided. An example is the Shahpar UAV, it can transmit real-time data from over 250 km away from the control station.


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## fatman17

*Pakistan flexes UAV muscles at IDEAS*:


Gordon Arthur, Karachi, Pakistan
James Hardy, London Section:

2012-Nov-14


Pakistan's Global Industrial & Defence Solutions (GIDS) used the International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) in Karachi in early November to highlight its range of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV), one of which showed signs of close co-operation with China. 

The Shahpar shares some design features with the CASC CH-3 UAV. (Robert Hewson) The 470-kg medium-range Shahpar bears more than a passing resemblance to the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) CH-3. IHS Jane's reported in 2010 that China was preparing to deliver 20 systems, along with the CASC FT-5 65 kg-class 'small diameter bomb', to Pakistan in 2011. It is unclear whether the Shahpar is one of those 20 systems, an indigenously developed variant of the CH-3, or a separate programme. 

According to the company, the Shahpar is powered by a 100 hp Rotax piston engine with a maximum speed of 150 km/h, has an endurance of 7 hours, and is capable of day/night surveillance. GIDS officials added that it had completed qualification tests and was ready for production. 

The Shahpar is the most modern UAV in the GIDS stable. (Gordon Arthur) The Shahpar will complement GIDS' Uqab tactical UAV. Fitted with a gyro-stabilised gimbal with colour day camera and a thermal imager with target tracking and locking capabilities, the Uqab has been in service with the Pakistan Army since 2007 and recently entered service with the Pakistan Navy in a coastal surveillance role. The navy is also acquiring an Uqab-derived UAV called the Huma, which is truck-launched using a rocket booster and recovered by the use of a parachute. A GIDS spokesman said the navy is currently conducting trials of the UAV, which has a ceiling of about 4,600 m. 

GIDS also exhibited its 4 kg Scout Mini: a hand-launched UAV with a 15 km range and endurance of 45 minutes that is designed for use with a two-man team and is in the process of being commissioned by the army. 

COMMENT
It is unclear what the relationship between the CH-3 and the Shahpar is, but UAV analysts point to the large number of similarities between the two platforms and previous reports of CH-3 sales to Pakistan. That Islamabad and China are "all-weather friends", the bromide used by officials from both sides, adds to the belief that some kind of joint venture has taken place. 

Meanwhile, the navy's deployment of the Uqab UAV, which has been in service at Pakistan Naval Station (PNS) Mehran in Karachi since July 2011, provides it with a step up in capabilities and may go some way to filling the cap caused by the destruction of two Lockheed Martin P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft at PNS Mehran by militants in May 2011. 

While those two aircraft were subsequently replaced by the delivery of two P-3Cs in 2012, it is likely that the P-3C fleet will be smaller than originally intended and so UAVs will give commanders more operational flexibility. 


JDW

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## The Deterrent

For comparison:

*GIDS Shahpar UAV*








*CASC CH-3 UCAV*

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## Thorough Pro

Bolded part is exactly what I said in my post, reproduced below for your reference.

We need tounderstand that battlefield recon drones with 100/200 mile range are good for formation commanders for a limited area survelience, but when we talk of UCAV, we need to understand that armed drone missions are planned much like other airforce assets. They require refueling, re-arming and system checks which are better done at "normally" airforce bases, and airforce bases would normally be farther than 200 KM range from the target area and thus require a reliable communication channel which can effectively communicate beyond line of sight distances and and in all terrains. 




AhaseebA said:


> Not necessarily. *Satellite based datalinks are necessary for UAVs operating too far away from the control stations* (like some MQ-9s are controlled by operators in UK and USA).
> For Pakistan to control UAVs inside Pakistan is no big deal, datalinks can be provided. An example is the Shahpar UAV, it can transmit real-time data from over 250 km away from the control station.



Originally Posted by Conceal Carry

*A very important element of an integrated UAV/UCAV system with decent range is a satelite which *can act as a communication bridge between control station and the bird. We will not see a fully functional effective UAV/UCAV systemuntill our GPS satellite does not become fully functional (reported earlier to be functionalby June 2013).

Untill then it's all talk


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## Viper0011.

Conceal Carry said:


> A very important element of an integrated UAV/UCAV system with decent range is a satelite which [/B]can act as a communication bridge between control station and the bird. We will not see a fully functional effective UAV/UCAV systemuntill our GPS satellite does not become fully functional (reported earlier to be functionalby June 2013)



Not only for long range ops, the sat link is also needed for real time situational awareness, three d imaging of the area, etc. A sat can show three d images or infra red images of the area and all objects


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## ANG

Pakistan struggles in race to develop armed drones - Yahoo! News


Pakistan struggles in race to develop armed drones
By SEBASTIAN ABBOT | Associated Press &#8211; 4 hrs ago

KARACHI, Pakistan (AP) &#8212; Pakistan is secretly racing to develop its own armed drones, frustrated with U.S. refusals to provide the aircraft, but is struggling in its initial tests with a lack of precision munitions and advanced targeting technology.

One of Islamabad's closest allies and Washington's biggest rivals, China, has offered to help by selling Pakistan armed drones it developed. But industry experts say there is still uncertainty about the capabilities of the Chinese aircraft.

The development of unmanned combat aircraft is especially sensitive in Pakistan because of the widespread unpopularity of the hundreds of U.S. drone strikes against Taliban and al-Qaida militants in the country's rugged tribal region bordering Afghanistan.

The Pakistani government denounces the CIA strikes as a violation of the country's sovereignty, though senior civilian and military leaders are known to have supported at least some of the attacks in the past. Pakistani officials also call the strikes unproductive, saying they kill many civilians and fuel anger that helps militants recruit additional fighters &#8212; allegations denied by the U.S.

Pakistan has demanded the U.S. provide it with armed drones, claiming it could more effectively carry out attacks against militants. Washington has refused because of the sensitive nature of the technology and doubts that Pakistan would reliably target U.S. enemies. The U.S. has held talks with Pakistan about providing unarmed surveillance drones, but Islamabad already has several types of these aircraft in operation, and the discussions have gone nowhere.

Inaugurating a defense exhibition in the southern city of Karachi last week, Pakistani Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf indicated Islamabad would look for help from Beijing in response to U.S. intransigence.

"Pakistan can also benefit from China in defense collaboration, offsetting the undeclared technological apartheid," said Ashraf.

Pakistan has also been working to develop armed drones on its own, said Pakistani military officials and civilians involved in the domestic drone industry, all of whom spoke on condition of anonymity because of the classified nature of the work.

Pakistan first began weapons tests seven or eight months ago with the Falco, an Italian drone used by the Pakistani air force for surveillance that has been modified to carry rockets, said a civilian with knowledge of the secret program. The military is also conducting similar tests with the country's newest drone, the Shahpur, he said. An unarmed version of the Shahpur was unveiled for the first time at the Karachi exhibition.

The weapons tests have been limited to a handful of aircraft, and no strikes have been carried out in combat, said the civilian.

Pakistan lacks laser-guided missiles like the Hellfire used on U.S. Predator and Reaper drones and the advanced targeting system that goes with it, so the military has been using unguided rockets that are much less accurate.

While Hellfire missiles are said to have pinpoint accuracy, the rockets used by Pakistan have a margin of error of about 30 meters (100 feet) at best, and an unexpected gust of wind could take them 300 meters (1,000 feet) from their intended target, said the civilian. Even if Pakistan possessed Hellfires and the guidance system to use them, the missile's weight and drag would be a challenge for the small drones produced by the country.

Pakistan's largest drone, the Shahpur, has a wingspan of about seven meters (22 feet) and can carry 50 kilograms (110 pounds). The U.S. Predator, which can be equipped with two Hellfire missiles, has a wingspan more than twice that and a payload capacity over four times as great.

Pakistani drones also have much more limited range than those produced in the U.S. because they are operated based on "line of sight" using radio waves, rather than military satellites. The Shahpur has a maximum range of 250 kilometers (150 miles), while the Predator can fly over five times that distance.

The British newspaper The Guardian reported Tuesday that Pakistan was working on an armed drone but did not provide details.

The market for drones has exploded in Pakistan and other countries around the world in recent years, as shown by the array of aircraft on display at the defense exhibition in Karachi. Hoping to tap into a worldwide market worth billions of dollars a year, public and private companies wheeled out over a dozen drones that ranged in size from hand-held models meant to be carried in a backpack to larger aircraft like the Shahpur.

All the Pakistani drones on display were advertised as unarmed and meant for surveillance only. One private company, Integrated Dynamics, even promotes its aircraft under the slogan "Drones for Peace." But several models developed by the Chinese government were marketed as capable of carrying precision missiles and bombs.

The Chinese government has offered to sell Pakistan an armed drone it has produced, the CH-3, which can carry two laser-guided missiles or bombs, industry insiders said.

Also being offered to Pakistan is a more advanced drone, the CH-4, which closely resembles a U.S. Reaper and can carry four laser-guided missiles or bombs, according to Li Xiaoli, a representative of the Chinese state-owned company that produces both the CH-3 and CH-4, Aerospace Long-march International Trade Co., Ltd.

Pakistan has yet to purchase any armed Chinese drones because their capabilities have yet to be proven, but is likely to do so in the future, said the civilian with knowledge of the Pakistani military's drone program.

Only a few countries, including the U.S., Britain and Israel, are known to have actually used armed drones in military operations.

"China is a bit of a tough nut to crack as you'd expect," said Huw Williams, a drone expert at Jane's International Defense Review. "They frequently wheel out exciting looking aircraft but are yet to really demonstrate anything earthshattering."

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## Rajput_Pakistani

Pakistan racing to develop armed drones, officials say - World - CBC News

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## a1b2c145

TVVELVEMO$ said:


> If I may make a recommendation, Pakistan should put away all the aforementioned unremarkable toy UAVs and move up to the CH-*4* [NOT CH-3]; now that look like serious stuff...IYKWIM. When that thing flies, it will be the most Reaper-esque drone Chinese have come up with. Maybe after wasting some money & time on CH-3, Pakistan will trade up to CH-*4*. So many toys and so little money to choose with.......



You Mean this baby, CH-4&#65311; Yes!!! much better than Wing Loong(they are simlar, but quite different)! 
CH-4:
















Wing Loong:


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## a1b2c145

Boys are assembling a Wing Loong during the Zhuhai air show:


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## Thorough Pro

ANG said:


> While Hellfire missiles are said to have pinpoint accuracy, the rockets used by Pakistan have a margin of error of about 30 meters (100 feet) at best, and an *unexpected gust of wind could take them 300 meters (1,000 feet) from their intended target*, said the civilian. Even if Pakistan possessed Hellfires and the guidance system to use them, the missile's weight and drag would be a challenge for the small drones produced by the country.



Bullcrap...........are we talking about paper rockets here?


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## ANG

Conceal Carry said:


> Bullcrap...........are we talking about paper rockets here?



Hi, more importantly, I do not think the PA/PAF is that backward to use unguided rockets on a UAV. It is an interesting article; I am sure the PAF is struggling with targeting systems, due to lack of a satellite system. However, using unguided rockets, I do not believe that.

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## qwerrty

> China&#8217;s UAS Aimed at Buyers in Developing Countries
> Posted on November 19, 2012 by The Editor
> 
> In one half-hour period on the opening day of the show, a delegation of a dozen military officers from Myanmar stopped by the CASC display for a few minutes to hear a quick sales pitch, followed by a handful of more dapper officials from Kenya who chatted a little longer with the reps about a forthcoming trip to Beijing.
> 
> Asian and European delegates also could be seen ambling up to the railing to get a closer look.
> 
> *Guo said that Pakistan had already purchased several CH-3 drones, but those have been now upgraded to CH-4 capability due to a service agreement they&#8217;d hatched together.
> 
> The latest CH-4 on display can be used for reconnaissance and combat, carries up to four precision-guided bombs, can reach an altitude of eight kilometers, has a range of 3,500 kilometers, and fly for up to 30 hours depending on how heavy a payload it is carrying.*
> 
> The company, which is based in Beijing but manufactures in the nearby municipality of Tianjin, is currently negotiating with Egypt on selling a &#8220;whole package air defense system,&#8221; Guo said, which will also include medium-range CH-91 military surveillance UAVs that cost around $3 to $5 million including the vehicle and operating system.
> 
> CASC also displayed a handful of smaller short range drones and set up a flashy ground-to-ceiling UAS attack simulation compete with a dozen technicians glued to computer screens in a the make-believe war room.
> 
> &#8220;Our company has set up a pretty aggressive sales target for UAVs, but the global market competition is quite fierce,&#8221; Guo said. &#8220;There are many similar products in the global market and they are quite mature, so we haven&#8217;t had a big impact in the market. It will take some time for our products to be known and accepted.&#8221;
> 
> Compared to the glitz of the displays and openness from the CASC reps, who talked frankly to delegations, journalists and your average Zhou, there was a stark difference in how the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) &#8212; the company&#8217;s main competitor &#8212; played its hand.
> 
> Its showcase offered only small-scale models of UAS and while all but one had printed material to give viewers a better idea of the capabilities of the drones, guides said there was none for their major product &#8212; the Wing Loong &#8212; almost an identical twin to the CH-4.
> 
> Out under the hot sun on a far corner of the tarmac, an actual Wing Loong was on display, along with several other drones including a mini-jet UAV called the Blue Fox used for air-to-air combat training, but company representatives were assuredly tight-lipped about their top drone.
> 
> Although security allowed Chinese reporters inside the fenced-off area to get close to the vehicle and take group photos next to it, they refused to allow any foreign reporters or foreigners not in an official delegation inside.
> 
> Reports in the Chinese press indicate the Wing Loong can fly for around 20 hours maximum, has a range of around 4,000 kilometers, and costs around $1 million for the vehicle itself.
> 
> AVIC representatives also displayed a few drones that have been converted from military to civilian use that they hope to sell, but admitted that they have not sold any yet outside of China.
> 
> One of them, the SW-1, costs around $640,000, which doesn&#8217;t include the price of the large truck that holds the computer system needed to operate the drone. A rep also said that it takes two or three months to train someone to use the UAV, which is a considerable investment considering the ease of training on new drones coming down the pipeline.
> 
> Source: Alaska Despatch




does pakistan have any military comm satellite?




> China Makes Foreign UAS Sales at Zuhai Airshow
> Posted on November 19, 2012 by The Editor
> 
> The two Chinese aircraft were designed to be controlled by a ground station via satellite relay.
> 
> *The export versions are controlled only by ground stations, limiting their range and to conform to international arms sale regulations.*
> 
> Source: Global Times







......................


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## Najam Khan

fatman17 said:


> The Shahpar shares some design features with the CASC CH-3 UAV. (Robert Hewson) The 470-kg medium-range Shahpar bears more than a passing resemblance to the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) CH-3. IHS Jane's reported in 2010 that China was preparing to deliver 20 systems, along with the CASC FT-5 65 kg-class 'small diameter bomb', to Pakistan in 2011. It is unclear whether the Shahpar is one of those 20 systems, an indigenously developed variant of the CH-3, or a separate programme.
> ....
> A GIDS spokesman said the navy is currently conducting trials of the UAV, *which has a ceiling of about 4,600 m. *



Shapar/Ch-3 seems like good design and can be operated by Navy/army units who need firepower other than CAS by Air Force. But If one sees these drones or Pterodactyl -1 as a long term solution to Pakistani armed forces,then they need some serious design changes. 100-200kg payload is not enough, even MQ-1 had loaded weight of 2,250 lb (its latter version MQ-9 carries 3,800 lb (1,700 kg) weight on 7 hard points). Plus, service ceiling has to be over 7000m (23,000ft).

Wing Loong / Pterodactyl costs 1 million USD$, its way too low than its US counterparts but it has lesser punch and lesser service ceiling (endurance is not much issue for Pakistan, as we don't have operations in stand-off ranges). If such changes are addressed in later designs then we can see a combat drone in service with Pakistani armed forces.


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## Rajput_Pakistani

Apart from R & D being carried out in developing a UCAV, Pakistan should also start working on such a system

Drone Economics: Tiny tactical drones get dirt-cheap, GPS-guided bombs | Ars Technica

It can give Pakistan Army a useful tactical weapon. Less expensive then Hellfire type missile and without even a satellite link we can deploy it in range of 100kms or so. Already Pakistan has got drones which can carry 50kg payload. Guys if you can brainstorm over this..


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## Safriz

chinese wing loong is dirt cheap at only 1 million dollars,compared to USA's reaper at 34 million USD.

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## Oldman1

Safriz said:


> chinese wing loong is dirt cheap at only 1 million dollars,compared to USA's reaper at 34 million USD.



You pay what you get.


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## Thorough Pro

It has taken very long for Pakistan to come up with an indiginious drone with decent range, service ceiling and endurance. Even if they do in next 2/3 years, what they gona do about drone armament. You need dedicated mini missiles and bombs to fire from drones and we don't have any indiginuous percision attack ATG weapon which can be miniaturized for use on UCAV's.


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## Safriz

Conceal Carry said:


> It has taken very long for Pakistan to come up with an indiginious drone with decent range, service ceiling and endurance. Even if they do in next 2/3 years, what they gona do about drone armament. You need dedicated mini missiles and bombs to fire from drones and we don't have any indiginuous percision attack ATG weapon which can be miniaturized for use on UCAV's.



In Pakistan's case 'indigenous' doesnt matter...As long as its cheap,and it does the job,Pakistan will have it.
Chinese UCAV comes with weapons suit,and is very affordable..
Restricted by lack of Pakistan's satellite capability,but will still work for a few hundred miles....

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## fatman17

Meet Pakistan&#8217;s drone maker


By Betwa Sharma | December 3, 2012


In Pakistan, public anger against drone attacks carried out by the United States continues to grow.

From June 2004 through mid-September 2012, missiles from these unmanned aircrafts have killed 2,562 to 3,325 people in Pakistan, of whom 474-881 were civilians, including 176 children, according to the London-based Bureau of Investigative Journalism, an independent journalist organization. Its research shows that out of a total of 351 attacks, 299 were done under the Obama administration.

The U.S. claims that these CIA-conducted drone attacks are the only way to kill militants and terrorists hiding in the mountainous terrain of northwest Pakistan. A report released by Stanford and New York Universities in September described these attacks as counterproductive for the U.S. and terrorizing for civilians residing in the targeted areas.

In November, however, The Guardian reported that Pakistan is building its own combat drones.

Raja Sabri Khan, a Pakistani aerospace design engineer, who has built drones for two decades, says that his country&#8217;s government doesn&#8217;t have the money to make combat drones yet.

Khan, who heads Integrated Dynamics, a Karachi-based private company, has pioneered drone technology for civilian use. The engineer speaks with SmartPlanet about why he makes drones, his buyers as well as the costs and the risks involved.

SP: For how long have you been making drones and why do you make them?
RSK: I&#8217;ve been designing and making drones for over 20 years. Why? Why do people climb mountains? Aerospace technologies have always fascinated me and drones are a great learning platform.

SP: What kind of drones do you make and what are they used for?
RSK: I design drones for civilian and surveillance applications. These are mostly under 20 kg weight (40 lbs). The lightest SKYCAM is under a kg. There are numerous civilian applications that we are targeting from wildlife monitoring, agriculture, search and rescue to environmental and land use surveys.

SP: What military purposes can your drones be put to?
RSK: Aerial surveillance and early warning systems.

SP: Can you elaborate a bit more on the civilian purposes for these drones? Perhaps a few examples of how your drones have been used outside of Pakistan?
RSK: All of our exports to Europe and Australia have been for civilian applications including land mapping, agriculture, environmental studies and as platforms for research into full-size collision avoidance systems in passenger aircraft.

SP: How long does it to make a drone and how much does it cost to make one?
RSK: Our SKYCAM drone takes about two days to build and costs around $250. The complete system with a real time video feed to a ground station costs around $1000.

SP: Who do you sell drones to and for how much?
RSK: We cannot sell to individuals. All sales and exports are to organizations and government entities under end-user certification from the Government of Pakistan.

SP: Do you have competition from other private drone-makers in Pakistan?
RSK: None. We work on mostly civilian applications while the rest are concentrating on military applications.

SP: The Pakistan military is reportedly making drones now. What&#8217;s your assessment of these drones?
RSK: Actually several government R&D organizations in Pakistan are developing drones for military applications in Pakistan.

SP: In the future, will Pakistani drones have the capability to carry out attacks like the U.S. Predator?
RSK: Let me give you an example which might provide some clarity on this question and the perception that the press has about drones. Drones are aircraft without pilots. Many countries around the world have the capability of building light aircraft for passenger use or civilian applications but this does not mean that the technology can be extended into their being able to conduct a full-fledged fighter development program.

An armed drone is a completely different animal from a surveillance drone in the same manner as a light aircraft, like a Cessna, differs from an F-18. Future capability means a lot of money in spending and complete commitment from the government&#8217;s point of view and this may not be an immediate priority.

SP: China&#8217;s making drones as well. What&#8217;s your assessment of Chinese technology compared to the U.S.?
RSK: I think the Chinese will be right up there very soon with the leading drone technology countries in the world including the USA and Israel.

SP: There is big push back against drones in Pakistan because of the U.S. attacks. Are people angry with your work and have you ever been at risk?
RSK: There is always a risk of being misunderstood, largely due to press hype, of the types of applications that our drones are capable of. I have always been a strong advocate for banning drone strikes. There are so many life-saving applications that can be realistically attempted using drones like search and rescue, flood early warning, avalanche monitoring and disaster management.

We are attempting to promote these applications through our &#8216;Drones for Peace&#8217; program and the SKYCAM system which will be available throughout the world for civilian life-saving applications.

Photos provided by Raja Sabri Khan.


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## Gentelman

Are UAVs being used in scientific research purposes or in civilians ie in agriculture,search and rescue etc???


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## araz

Oldman1 said:


> You pay what you get.



True to a great extent. BUt it is not China which has barred its tech to us inspite of our dire needs. So we do whatever we can with whatever we get. The tech might not be very advanced and matured and quality might suffer a bit, but it works and we make it serve our purpose. Your drones being rerouted and forced to land (by whatever means) proves that inferior tech also can do the job.
Araz

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## araz

Gentelman said:


> Are UAVs being used in scientific research purposes or in civilians ie in agriculture,search and rescue etc???



Not all drones are used for military purposes, there are a lot of civilian uses ncluding the field of agriculture, S&R, LAw enforcement. You need to save your head .IT IS VERY PRECIOUS;. Unsolicited banging on the wall can cause irrepeairable harm!!
Take care
Araz

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## Oldman1

araz said:


> True to a great extent. BUt it is not China which has barred its tech to us inspite of our dire needs. So we do whatever we can with whatever we get. The tech might not be very advanced and matured and quality might suffer a bit, but it works and we make it serve our purpose. Your drones being rerouted and forced to land (by whatever means) proves that inferior tech also can do the job.
> Araz



Well if our drones can easily go down then China's as well. Might as well get out of the drone business before it even starts.


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## A.Rafay

This is Naval Version of UQAB

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## Viper0011.

araz said:


> True to a great extent. BUt it is not China which has barred its tech to us inspite of our dire needs. So we do whatever we can with whatever we get. The tech might not be very advanced and matured and quality might suffer a bit, but it works and we make it serve our purpose. Your drones being rerouted and forced to land (by whatever means) proves that inferior tech also can do the job. - Araz



Technology is what now runs the world. The technology that hackers use to penetrate in the world's most secured systems isn't as high-tech. But it works. Similarly, the drones are no exception. But out of millions of drone ops, if two or four went down or got 'caught'....I don't think that's even 1% of the failure. Plus remember, the US MIC uses these incidents as an opportunity to further advance the technology and assess enemy's capability.


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## araz

orangzaib said:


> Technology is what now runs the world. The technology that hackers use to penetrate in the world's most secured systems isn't as high-tech. But it works. Similarly, the drones are no exception. But out of millions of drone ops, if two or four went down or got 'caught'....I don't think that's even 1% of the failure. Plus remember, the US MIC uses these incidents as an opportunity to further advance the technology and assess enemy's capability.



Aurangzeb and old man
While I understand your point my reference to events in Iran were not meant to rub it in someone,s face but to point out that the so called cheap technology works and works reasonably well for us to go for it. We simply do not have much of a choice in the matter.As to our place in this field,well it is in its infancy. The chinese it appears are 5-10 yrs behind the US.
Araz

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## fatman17

Pakistan making drones to target militants: WSJ


By: Special Correspondent | December 20, 2012


NEW YORK &#8211; Pakistan&#8217;s defence industry is building what companies hope will be a domestic fleet of aerial drones that can take over the US&#8217;s role in attacking militant strongholds, The Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday.

&#8220;The US&#8217;s persistent use of armed drones to kill militants in remote parts of Pakistan has created a public backlash that has damaged the relationship between the two nations,&#8221; the newspaper said in a despatch.

&#8220;But Pakistan isn&#8217;t altogether against drones. The nation&#8217;s leaders want to have more control over where and how they are used, and are encouraging local drone makers to build up the country&#8217;s budding arsenal. The future era is toward unmanned operations,&#8221; Sawd Rehman, a deputy director of a Pakistan-based Xpert Engineering, which builds aerial drones, was quoted as saying. &#8220;The policy of self-reliance is always priority No 1 of every nation.&#8221;

Rehman is part of a new wave of executives in the Pakistani defense industry who have studied American drone strikes with a mix of scorn and envy, the paper said. He and other Pakistanis view US drone attacks on militant sanctuaries as counterproductive.

Instead, Xpert and a small number of other companies are working to develop the country&#8217;s own fleet of unmanned aerial vehicles &#8211;a force they hope will one day supplant the American drones that dominate the country&#8217;s border with Afghanistan.

&#8220;We have tried our best asking the United States to transfer this technology to us to fight our own war instead of somebody from abroad coming and doing it,&#8221; said Maj-Gen Tahir Ashraf Khan, director general of Pakistan&#8217;s Defense Export Promotion Organisation. &#8220;Those efforts did not meet with success, so we decided to venture into this field ourselves and we have gone pretty far ahead.&#8221;

Pakistan&#8217;s military already uses a small but growing number of unarmed drones, some of them manufactured at home, to monitor the borders, coast and mountain ranges that serve as sanctuaries for some of the world&#8217;s most wanted militant leaders, including the Taliban and its allied Haqqani Network, the Journal said.

US officials agreed last year to sell Islamabad several dozen small, unarmed model drones with limited short-range surveillance capabilities. American officials opposed Pakistani requests for the transfer of the US armed drone technology to Pakistan. The Pentagon declined to comment on Pakistan&#8217;s drone programme or the reasons for not giving it the US technology.

Washington is resuming about $1 billion in military aid after freezing it when Pakistan blocked the US access to supply lines into Afghanistan. That followed an American border strike that killed 25 Pakistani troops in November 2011. The standoff ended over the summer with a US apology. &#8220;Without advanced satellite technology, the Pakistanis are incapable of developing armed drones by themselves now,&#8221; the despatch said. It will take years, if not decades, for Pakistan to develop a fleet of armed drones to rival America&#8217;s Predator and Reaper models, many analysts and people in the industry say.

&#8220;We don&#8217;t have the capability,&#8221; said Muhammad Sulaiman, a sales manager for Global Industrial Defense Solutions, or GIDS, a consortium of Pakistani companies that sells drones, tanks and planes to the nation&#8217;s military. &#8220;Maybe Pakistan will need another 50 years.&#8221;

To expand its capabilities, Pakistan is looking for help from China which has marketed its own version of armed drones to developing countries, it said.

GIDS produces one of Pakistan&#8217;s newest and most advanced drones, a medium-range vehicle called the Shahpar that can fly for about seven hours &#8211;a fraction of the 40 hours a Predator can spend in the sky.

To supplement its nascent drone industry, Pakistan has been working with Italy&#8217;s Selex Galileo SpA to produce a medium-range Falco drone with limited capabilities that the Pakistani military has been using for surveillance since 2009 when the government staged operations against militants based in Swat Valley in northeastern Pakistan. While Pakistan has looked to other countries to advance its drone capabilities, one Pakistani company said it has exported a small number of drones to a private company in the US.

Raja Sabri Khan, chief executive of Integrated Dynamics, a Karachi-based drone manufacturer, said he thought the US use of armed drones has given the industry a bad name, it said. He aims to help rehabilitate the perception of drones by promoting their peaceful uses, such as the ability to locate flood victims for rescue. &#8220;Drones can be used for saving lives, for security. I am absolutely against drones for armed purposes,&#8221; he said.

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## A1Kaid

How much longer until an operational UCAV?


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## Najam Khan

A1Kaid said:


> How much longer until an operational UCAV?


At least 5 years. To get the 'best deal' in terms of capability and price tag Pakistan has to wait for now. Chinese UCAVs are a good available solution, but their maturity and operational service (in numbers) in Chinese military is needed.

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## diabolic_67

This information will never be available in public realm, as most of these development projects are secret. However, public opinion seems to confirm that an active national program may exist.



A1Kaid said:


> How much longer until an operational UCAV?


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## A1Kaid

diabolic_67 said:


> This information will never be available in public realm, as most of these development projects are secret. However, public opinion seems to confirm that an active national program may exist.



True, but I was wondering if there was perhaps an estimated date or time the UCAVs may be operational. Nothing official of course just estimate based on public sources.


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## Glitcher

How Many Types of drones does Pakistan is operating ?


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## Gentelman

A1Kaid said:


> True, but I was wondering if there was perhaps an estimated date or time the UCAVs may be operational. Nothing official of course just estimate based on public sources.



I heard armed drones were tested in Azm e Nau back in 2010 i guess...
well Burraq was maybe there....
bt info was kept secret and disclosed.

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## Najam Khan

A1Kaid said:


> True, but I was wondering if there was perhaps an estimated date or time the UCAVs may be operational. Nothing official of course just estimate based on public sources.



Not so early. At least 3-5 years more.
The point is that military wants techinically superior systems which would serve till at least 10 years (and in numbers). Some of the designs available in Pakistani/Chinese market are decent projects but when you look at the bigger picture; its still a risk investing money (which at this point is not available) to something which has not seen an operational service.

Pakistan's investment in project like JF-17 is a fine example of the level of customization desired by its forces. Making a recce drone is fairly easy task, but making a drone with enough punch, variety in weapon configuration, range, simple/easy-to-maintain design and structually strong air frame (with fine avionics as well) would require time. Till then; PAF or PAA guys will be called for CAS.

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## Glitcher

Najam Khan said:


> Not so early. At least 3-5 years more.
> The point is that military wants techinically superior systems which would serve till at least 10 years (and in numbers). Some of the designs available in Pakistani/Chinese market are decent projects but when you look at the bigger picture; its still a risk investing money (which at this point is not available) to something which has not seen an operational service.
> 
> Pakistan's investment in project like JF-17 is a fine example of the level of customization desired by its forces. Making a recce drone is fairly easy task, but making a drone with enough punch, variety in weapon configuration, range, simple/easy-to-maintain design and structually strong air frame (with fine avionics as well) would require time. Till then; PAF or PAA guys will be called for CAS.



I think Buraq is a Fine design and with Good Avionics and it can be armed


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## Gentelman

Glitcher said:


> I think Buraq is a Fine design and with Good Avionics and it can be armed



It can be armed??
it is an armed project sire..
it carries laser guided bombs.....

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## Glitcher

thats What I meant


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## Manticore

Pakistan keeping eye on India with UAVs
ByVimal Bhatia, TNN | Mar 19, 2013, 03.13 AM IST


JAISALMER: Pakistan's Unmanned Aerial Vehicles ( UAV) called 'Jasoos' have been spying on security arrangements and Army activities going on in the Indian side from the international border of Pakistan adjoining Rajasthan. In the recent past, activities of these UAVs have increased.

These UAVs can be spotted at night as sparkling red lights and have become a subject of excitement and discussion among the security forces. They are active even during day time and can be recognized by the trail of smoke they leave behind. These spy planes are active across the border opposite Barmer, Jaisalmer, Bikaner and Ganganagar in Rajasthan.

Reliable sources confirming this said that Pakistan is taking help of UAVs to keep an eye on the Indian area and their activities have intensified in the past few days.

Sources said Pak had developed UAVs a few years ago with the help of America and Italy and are using them to spy on the Indian area.

Sources said these spy planes are active at a height of 1500m-2000m just 500-700 yards from the international border.

These UAVs are fitted with ultramodern powerful cameras that can capture photographs of the Indian area spanning many kilometers. They are operated from a distance of 25-30kms. The computer operators are connected to the UAVs and they receive the photographs sent by these drones, the sources said.

Though BSF is keeping a watch over the activities of UAVs, but it is not possible to take any action since they are flying within the Pakistani border. But senior officers have been informed about the UAVs, sources added.

When contacted Col SD Goswami, defence spokesperson, said, "Our air defence units are monitoring such activities along the border. In case there is an air space violation, suitable action will be taken. All such violations are analysed and taken up with the country concerned through laid down channels as per established procedures."

He added that as per the international air space rules and bilateral agreements with neighbouring sovereign countries, such flying activities are permitted 10 km away from the international border, but any closer than the 10 km limit requires prior permission.

What are 'Jasoos'?

Jasoos are unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) developed by Pakistani company Satuma. They are controlled via remote and weigh around 20kg. Capable of doing 180 kmph, these UAVs fly at a height of 10,000ft (3480m). Jasoos have a range of 100km, and can fly for 4-5 hours continuously with battery backup. Pak air force in the year 2004 had included UAVs, but was used in 2009 after the testing. Prior to this, Pak had purchased UAVs from Italy in 2003

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...e-on-India-with-UAVs/articleshow/19052794.cms

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## Jango

ANTIBODY said:


> Pakistan keeping eye on India with UAVs
> ByVimal Bhatia, TNN | Mar 19, 2013, 03.13 AM IST
> 
> 
> JAISALMER: Pakistan's Unmanned Aerial Vehicles ( UAV) called 'Jasoos' have been spying on security arrangements and Army activities going on in the Indian side from the international border of Pakistan adjoining Rajasthan. In the recent past, activities of these UAVs have increased.
> 
> These UAVs can be spotted at night as sparkling red lights and have become a subject of excitement and discussion among the security forces. They are active even during day time and can be recognized by the trail of smoke they leave behind. These spy planes are active across the border opposite Barmer, Jaisalmer, Bikaner and Ganganagar in Rajasthan.
> 
> Reliable sources confirming this said that Pakistan is taking help of UAVs to keep an eye on the Indian area and their activities have intensified in the past few days.
> 
> Sources said Pak had developed UAVs a few years ago with the help of America and Italy and are using them to spy on the Indian area.
> 
> Sources said these spy planes are active at a height of 1500m-2000m just 500-700 yards from the international border.
> 
> These UAVs are fitted with ultramodern powerful cameras that can capture photographs of the Indian area spanning many kilometers. They are operated from a distance of 25-30kms. The computer operators are connected to the UAVs and they receive the photographs sent by these drones, the sources said.
> 
> Though BSF is keeping a watch over the activities of UAVs, but it is not possible to take any action since they are flying within the Pakistani border. But senior officers have been informed about the UAVs, sources added.
> 
> When contacted Col SD Goswami, defence spokesperson, said, "Our air defence units are monitoring such activities along the border. In case there is an air space violation, suitable action will be taken. All such violations are analysed and taken up with the country concerned through laid down channels as per established procedures."
> 
> He added that as per the international air space rules and bilateral agreements with neighbouring sovereign countries, such flying activities are permitted 10 km away from the international border, but any closer than the 10 km limit requires prior permission.
> 
> What are 'Jasoos'?
> 
> Jasoos are unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) developed by Pakistani company Satuma. They are controlled via remote and weigh around 20kg. Capable of doing 180 kmph, these UAVs fly at a height of 10,000ft (3480m). Jasoos have a range of 100km, and can fly for 4-5 hours continuously with battery backup. Pak air force in the year 2004 had included UAVs, but was used in 2009 after the testing. Prior to this, Pak had purchased UAVs from Italy in 2003
> 
> Pakistan keeping eye on India with UAVs - The Times of India



Drones are operated out of Vihari right?
@Oscar...?


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## DANGER-ZONE

nuclearpak said:


> Drones are operated out of Vihari right?
> @Oscar...?



Vehari, from an very quite air base known as "THINGI ADDA". Once I use to see live dog fight practices over there b/w Mirages, F-7 & F-6.


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## Jango

danger-zone said:


> Vehari, from an very quite air base known as "THINGI ADDA". Once I use to see live dog fight practices over there b/w Mirages, F-7 & F-6.



At Vihari? 

Isn't it a FOB, and only used by drones etc?


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## DANGER-ZONE

nuclearpak said:


> At Vihari?
> 
> Isn't it a FOB, and only used by drones etc?



Don't know bout drones but Jets for sure, F-7s.


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## Jango

danger-zone said:


> Don't know bout drones but Jets for sure, F-7s.



I don't think any asset is permanently stationed there...just as a FOB...kind of like Multan. Some structure etc is present, aircraft shelters etc, but no aircraft in peace time like this.


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## Yogi

Gentelman said:


> It can be armed??
> *it is an armed project sire..
> it carries laser guided bombs.....*



A link for ur claim would be appriciated...


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## SEAL

Found this on Satuma website i guess its hand launched can be good for tact ops.


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## SQ8

nuclearpak said:


> Drones are operated out of Vihari right?
> @Oscar...?



PAF Murid.

Falco's are at Murid along with the local IDS assets.
Army operates its Luna from wherever they wish.

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## Gentelman

Yogi said:


> A link for ur claim would be appriciated...



just search on google....
thats a fact u can find it even on a toy store...


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## ajpirzada

NEW DELHI - Pakistan's Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV) called 'Jasoos' have been spying on security arrangements and army activities going in India through the international border adjoining Rajasthan, an Indian media report claimed on Tuesday.
In the recent past, activities of these UAVs have increased, the report said.
These UAVs can be spotted at night as sparkling red lights and have become a subject of excitement and discussion among security forces. They are active during day time also and can be recognised by the trail of smoke they leave behind, the report added. These spy planes are active across the border opposite Barmer, Jaisalmer, Bikaner and Ganganagar in Rajasthan, it said.
Indian officials confirming this said Pakistan is taking help of UAVs to keep an eye on the Indian area and their activities have intensified in the past few days.
Indian officials said Pakistan had developed UAVs a few years ago with the help of America and Italy and issing them to spy on India.
They said these spy planes are active at a height of 1500m-2000m just 500 to 700 yards from the international border.
These UAVs are fitted with ultramodern powerful cameras that can capture photographs spanning many kilometers. They are operated from a distance of 25 to 30 km. Computer operators are connected to these UAVs which receive photographs sent by these drones, said sources.
Though BSF is keeping a watch over the activities of UAVs, it is not possible to take any action since they are flying within the Pakistani border, said officials. But senior officers have been informed about the UAVs, sources added.
When contacted Indian defence spokesperson Col SD Goswami said, "Our air defence units are monitoring such activities along the border. In case there is an air space violation, suitable action will be taken. All such violations are analysed and taken up with the country concerned through laid down channels per established procedures."
He added per the international air space rules and bilateral agreements with neighbouring sovereign countries, such flying activities are permitted 10 km away from the international border, but any closer than the 10 km limit requires prior permission.
Jasoos are unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) developed by Pakistani company Satuma. They are controlled via remote and weigh around 20kg. Capable of doing 180 km an hour, these UAVs fly at a height of 10,000ft (3480m). Jasoos have a range of 100km, and can fly for 4-5 hours continuously with battery backup, according to the report.

India accuses Pakistan of spying | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia

not sure if this has been posted somewhere.

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## Argus Panoptes

ajpirzada said:


> ...........
> These *UAVs can be spotted at night as sparkling red lights* and have become a subject of excitement and discussion among security forces. They are active during day time also and can be recognised by the trail of smoke they leave behind, the report added. These spy planes are active across the border opposite Barmer, Jaisalmer, Bikaner and Ganganagar in Rajasthan, it said.
> Indian officials confirming this said Pakistan is taking help of UAVs to keep an eye on the Indian area and their activities have intensified in the past few days.
> Indian officials said Pakistan had developed UAVs a few years ago with the help of America and Italy and issing them to spy on India.
> They said *these spy planes are active at a height of 1500m-2000m just 500 to 700 yards from the international border.*
> These UAVs are fitted with ultramodern powerful cameras that can capture photographs spanning many kilometers. They are operated from a distance of 25 to 30 km. Computer operators are connected to these UAVs which receive photographs sent by these drones, said sources.............



So they have clear red lights and fly half a kilometer INSIDE the border. So what's the problem here?

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## manojb

I thought some noob got excited and started 20th thread on same topic. I was wrong.


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## skyisthelimit

everyone does it now a days. nothing new.


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## ajpirzada

actively using UAV to map the territory behind the border is impressive for a country lik ours. no? or have i been deceived by my ignorance? :/


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## Argus Panoptes

ajpirzada said:


> actively using UAV to map the territory behind the border is impressive for a country lik ours. no? or have i been deceived by my ignorance? :/



Please do not sell us so short. A country like ours? We are a nuclear armed country in the 21st century. True that we have many problems, but we also have some great capabilities. To be honest, I must say I would rightfully expect us to have such UAV by now.

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## Donatello

ajpirzada said:


> NEW DELHI - Pakistan's Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV) called 'Jasoos' have been spying on security arrangements and army activities going in India through the international border adjoining Rajasthan, an Indian media report claimed on Tuesday.
> In the recent past, activities of these UAVs have increased, the report said.
> These UAVs can be spotted at night as sparkling red lights and have become a subject of excitement and discussion among security forces. They are active during day time also and can be recognised by the trail of smoke they leave behind, the report added. These spy planes are active across the border opposite Barmer, Jaisalmer, Bikaner and Ganganagar in Rajasthan, it said.
> Indian officials confirming this said Pakistan is taking help of UAVs to keep an eye on the Indian area and their activities have intensified in the past few days.
> Indian officials said Pakistan had developed UAVs a few years ago with the help of America and Italy and issing them to spy on India.
> They said these spy planes are active at a height of 1500m-2000m *just 500 to 700 yards from the international border*.
> These UAVs are fitted with ultramodern powerful cameras that can capture photographs spanning many kilometers. They are operated from a distance of 25 to 30 km. Computer operators are connected to these UAVs which receive photographs sent by these drones, said sources.
> Though BSF is keeping a watch over the activities of UAVs, it is not possible to take any action since they are flying within the Pakistani border, said officials. But senior officers have been informed about the UAVs, sources added.
> When contacted Indian defence spokesperson Col SD Goswami said, "Our air defence units are monitoring such activities along the border. In case there is an air space violation, suitable action will be taken. All such violations are analysed and taken up with the country concerned through laid down channels per established procedures."
> He added per the international air space rules and bilateral agreements with neighbouring sovereign countries, such flying activities are permitted 10 km away from the international border, but any closer than the 10 km limit requires prior permission.
> Jasoos are unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) developed by Pakistani company Satuma. They are controlled via remote and weigh around 20kg. Capable of doing 180 km an hour, these UAVs fly at a height of 10,000ft (3480m). Jasoos have a range of 100km, and can fly for 4-5 hours continuously with battery backup, according to the report.
> 
> India accuses Pakistan of spying | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia
> 
> not sure if this has been posted somewhere.




It is still within Pakistani Border. We can do whatever we want inside our border.

Stupid Indians and their media.

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## EzioAltaïr

ajpirzada said:


> NEW DELHI - Pakistan's Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV) called 'Jasoos' have been spying on security arrangements and army activities going in India through the international border adjoining Rajasthan, an Indian media report claimed on Tuesday.
> In the recent past, activities of these UAVs have increased, the report said.
> These UAVs can be spotted at night as sparkling red lights and have become a subject of excitement and discussion among security forces. They are active during day time also and can be recognised by the trail of smoke they leave behind, the report added. These spy planes are active across the border opposite Barmer, Jaisalmer, Bikaner and Ganganagar in Rajasthan, it said.
> Indian officials confirming this said Pakistan is taking help of UAVs to keep an eye on the Indian area and their activities have intensified in the past few days.
> Indian officials said Pakistan had developed UAVs a few years ago with the help of America and Italy and issing them to spy on India.
> They said these spy planes are active at a height of 1500m-2000m just 500 to 700 yards from the international border.
> These UAVs are fitted with ultramodern powerful cameras that can capture photographs spanning many kilometers. They are operated from a distance of 25 to 30 km. Computer operators are connected to these UAVs which receive photographs sent by these drones, said sources.
> Though BSF is keeping a watch over the activities of UAVs, it is not possible to take any action since they are flying within the Pakistani border, said officials. But senior officers have been informed about the UAVs, sources added.
> When contacted Indian defence spokesperson Col SD Goswami said, "Our air defence units are monitoring such activities along the border. In case there is an air space violation, suitable action will be taken. All such violations are analysed and taken up with the country concerned through laid down channels per established procedures."
> He added per the international air space rules and bilateral agreements with neighbouring sovereign countries, such flying activities are permitted 10 km away from the international border, but any closer than the 10 km limit requires prior permission.
> Jasoos are unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) developed by Pakistani company Satuma. They are controlled via remote and weigh around 20kg. Capable of doing 180 km an hour, these UAVs fly at a height of 10,000ft (3480m). Jasoos have a range of 100km, and can fly for 4-5 hours continuously with battery backup, according to the report.
> 
> India accuses Pakistan of spying | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia
> 
> not sure if this has been posted somewhere.



It has already been posted. Though I'm too lazy to remember where. 

Suffice to say it's just silly news reporting from our media. Til ka taad banana. What spy plane has red lights on it?


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## Rhino

'Jasoos' A spy plane...hahahha


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## fatman17

why post it here - why not the UAV section


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## Kompromat

Oscar said:


> PAF Murid.
> 
> Falco's are at Murid along with the local IDS assets.
> Army operates its Luna from wherever they wish.



Luna > Scan Eagle ?


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## SQ8

ajpirzada said:


> actively using UAV to map the territory behind the border is impressive for a country lik ours. no? or have i been deceived by my ignorance? :/



Its quite regular now..

Knowing the flight patterns of eagles near the border...and fitting them with camera's to spy around..
NOW that is impressive.

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## Pandora

Rhino said:


> 'Jasoos' A spy plane...hahahha



Whats wrong mutley ? Never seen a UAV before.

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## fatman17

China Provides Key to Pakistani Bandwidth Requirements

Mar. 27, 2013 - 08:19AM | By USMAN ANSARI


ISLAMABAD &#8212; Pakistan continues to transform its military into a network-enabled force but will remain reliant on China to provide the bandwidth.

According to the military, its improved communication and surveillance capabilities, through employment of intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets such as UAVs, aerial imaging and early warning platforms, were first resolutely tested in the Azm-e-Nau/New Resolve exercise in 2010.

However, according to Brian Cloughley, former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad, full communication and networking capabilities have not yet trickled down to front-line units, although at higher levels, this could be a different picture.

&#8220;Communications in the Army seem to me to be pretty basic, but of course all I&#8217;ve actually seen are the command posts and so forth in Mohmand and Swat; the higher-level arrangements, as in all armies, are strictly out of bounds to any but those with highest clearance.&#8221;

Pakistan may already be sharing bandwidth on Chinese satellites, he said. Despite the size of the Pakistani military and its recent modernization efforts, some analysts do not believe Pakistan requires a dedicated military communications satellite, and that an arrangement with China should be sufficient for its needs.

Elizabeth Quintana, senior research fellow in air power and technology at the Royal United Services Institute think tank, said this is not unusual.

&#8220;Many countries buy bandwidth from allied nations or commercial suppliers. The U.S. military is 80 percent reliant on commercial SATCOM, for example, and that is not likely to change,&#8221; she said. However, she said it is not impossible that Pakistan would consider developing its own indigenous satellite communications assets.

&#8220;Having an indigenous SATCOM capability is largely a political decision [for national prestige, etc.] and, in some ways, may be a military decision if they believe they need an independent SATCOM capability and/or one that they could also offer to allies in return for access to other assets, such as Beidou [the Chinese GPS equivalent],&#8221; Quintana said.

Pakistan&#8217;s satellite capabilities are at a very early stage, however, so no such decision is expected soon.

While relying on Chinese satellite assets would seem highly advantageous, Quintana highlights some drawbacks.

&#8220;Using Chinese SATCOM would definitely hinder the Pakistanis from obtaining U.S. equipment that requires the use of SATCOM &#8212; MALE [medium-altitude, long-endurance] UAVs, such as Predator, for example,&#8221; she said.

Such an arrangement would give Beijing considerable influence over its South Asian ally.

&#8220;This is the problem for any small nation wishing to take advantage of investments that larger, more powerful allies have already made,&#8221; Quintana said.

Benefits Pakistan could derive from sharing bandwidth on a Chinese satellite, Quintana said, include access to a dedicated asset it may not be able to acquire for itself and access to China&#8217;s Beidou satellites. And in times of conflict, an enemy might refrain from attacking these assets for fear of drawing China into the fight.

&#8220;Additionally, if Pakistani systems utilize multiple [positioning, navigating and targeting] systems Beidou/GPS/Glonass/Galileo, it enhances resilience in the event of service failure or jamming,&#8221; Quintana said.

Having access to Chinese satellites would give Pakistan a signals relay capability, the lack of which has hindered the operation of MALE and high-altitude, long-endurance (HALE) UAVs.

The data-link range of Pakistan&#8217;s tactical UAVs is stated as 200 to 250 kilometers.

Raja Sabri Khan, chief executive of Integrated Dynamics, a high-profile Pakistan UAV developer, said designing new types with the &#8220;performances to allow utilization of satellite communication links to their fullest potential&#8221; could become reality with a SATCOM capability.

All of the technological building blocks and technologies to develop MALE UAVs are in place, he said.

For more local use of MALE UAVs, he said, &#8220;simpler systems, such as repeaters [used commonly to boost cellular signals for increased coverage and range], can fill in as alternatives for thousands of kilometers of range if you plan to fly over your own territory&#8221;.

A SATCOM capability is a necessity for maritime patrol, an area where the Navy has started to operate tactical UAVs, and for the operation of HALE-type UAVs, Khan said.

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## Kompromat



Reactions: Like Like:
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## mazharshah1

This is great news so for


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## fatman17

*Get the strike fighter experience in Latin America at the LAAD 2013 defense show*

By Allison Barrie


.............And then there was Pakistan.

Pakistan made its debut this year at LAAD.

The largest state-owned defense conglomerate, Global Industrial & Defence Solutions, brought a range of unmanned aerial vehicles or &#8220;drones.&#8221; Remote controlled or self-controlled, these drones are designed for surveillance monitoring and other purposes.

They also featured their ANZA-MK II surface to air missiles, Baktar Shikan anti-tank guided missiles.


Ballet dancer turned defense specialist Allison Barrie has traveled around the world covering the military, terrorism, weapons advancements and life on the front line. You can reach her at wargames@foxnews.com or follow her on Twitter @Allison_Barrie


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## cchettry

Faizan Qadri said:


> PRC has the best technology of UAVs. Pakistan should sign a deal wiith Chinese firms to make drones.



Wrong... USA has the best and unmatchable technology when it comes to drones.

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## jamesseo89

fatman17 said:


> China Provides Key to Pakistani Bandwidth Requirements
> 
> Mar. 27, 2013 - 08:19AM | By USMAN ANSARI
> 
> 
> ISLAMABAD &#8212; Pakistan continues to transform its military into a network-enabled force but will remain reliant on China to provide the bandwidth.
> 
> According to the military, its improved communication and surveillance capabilities, through employment of intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets such as UAVs, aerial imaging and early warning platforms, were first resolutely tested in the Azm-e-Nau/New Resolve exercise in 2010.
> 
> However, according to Brian Cloughley, former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad, full communication and networking capabilities have not yet trickled down to front-line units, although at higher levels, this could be a different picture.
> 
> &#8220;Communications in the Army seem to me to be pretty basic, but of course all I&#8217;ve actually seen are the command posts and so forth in Mohmand and Swat; the higher-level arrangements, as in all armies, are strictly out of bounds to any but those with highest clearance.&#8221;
> 
> Pakistan may already be sharing bandwidth on Chinese satellites, he said. Despite the size of the Pakistani military and its recent modernization efforts, some analysts do not believe Pakistan requires a dedicated military communications satellite, and that an arrangement with China should be sufficient for its needs.
> 
> Elizabeth Quintana, senior research fellow in air power and technology at the Royal United Services Institute think tank, said this is not unusual.
> 
> &#8220;Many countries buy bandwidth from allied nations or commercial suppliers. The U.S. military is 80 percent reliant on commercial SATCOM, for example, and that is not likely to change,&#8221; she said. However, she said it is not impossible that Pakistan would consider developing its own indigenous satellite communications assets.
> 
> &#8220;Having an indigenous SATCOM capability is largely a political decision [for national prestige, etc.] and, in some ways, may be a military decision if they believe they need an independent SATCOM capability and/or one that they could also offer to allies in return for access to other assets, such as Beidou [the Chinese GPS equivalent],&#8221; Quintana said.
> 
> Pakistan&#8217;s satellite capabilities are at a very early stage, however, so no such decision is expected soon.
> 
> While relying on Chinese satellite assets would seem highly advantageous, Quintana highlights some drawbacks.
> 
> &#8220;Using Chinese SATCOM would definitely hinder the Pakistanis from obtaining U.S. equipment that requires the use of SATCOM &#8212; MALE [medium-altitude, long-endurance] UAVs, such as Predator, for example,&#8221; she said.
> 
> Such an arrangement would give Beijing considerable influence over its South Asian ally.
> 
> &#8220;This is the problem for any small nation wishing to take advantage of investments that larger, more powerful allies have already made,&#8221; Quintana said.
> 
> Benefits Pakistan could derive from sharing bandwidth on a Chinese satellite, Quintana said, include access to a dedicated asset it may not be able to acquire for itself and access to China&#8217;s Beidou satellites. And in times of conflict, an enemy might refrain from attacking these assets for fear of drawing China into the fight.
> 
> &#8220;Additionally, if Pakistani systems utilize multiple [positioning, navigating and targeting] systems Beidou/GPS/Glonass/Galileo, it enhances resilience in the event of service failure or jamming,&#8221; Quintana said.
> 
> Having access to Chinese satellites would give Pakistan a signals relay capability, the lack of which has hindered the operation of MALE and high-altitude, long-endurance (HALE) UAVs.
> 
> The data-link range of Pakistan&#8217;s tactical UAVs is stated as 200 to 250 kilometers.
> 
> Raja Sabri Khan, chief executive of Integrated Dynamics, a high-profile Pakistan UAV developer, said designing new types with the &#8220;performances to allow utilization of satellite communication links to their fullest potential&#8221; could become reality with a SATCOM capability.
> 
> All of the technological building blocks and technologies to develop MALE UAVs are in place, he said.
> 
> For more local use of MALE UAVs, he said, &#8220;simpler systems, such as repeaters [used commonly to boost cellular signals for increased coverage and range], can fill in as alternatives for thousands of kilometers of range if you plan to fly over your own territory&#8221;.
> 
> A SATCOM capability is a necessity for maritime patrol, an area where the Navy has started to operate tactical UAVs, and for the operation of HALE-type UAVs, Khan said.



Pakistan Suparco, NESCOM and KRL can do JV with GCC in making a network of Communication Satellites then they can also be able to sell bandwidth to others...

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## Bamboo Castle

How many drones do you have? Do you have any? If you have then why don't you drop some dope in the US bases who are constantly bombing your country?


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## jamesseo89

I think PN should acquire a good deal of UAVs Like:
30 Uqaab
30 Burraq

For survelliance and Reconassiance as operating MPAs everytime is cost consuming...

Concentrating more and more on Maritime security can easily ensure safer Pakistan.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Bamboo Castle said:


> How many drones do you have? Do you have any? If you have then why don't you drop some dope in the US bases who are constantly bombing your country?



Shahpar,Uqab series,Huma,Falco,Flamingo,border eagle .. several types other other uavs including man portable uavs,HALE (operated by PN)... etc etc..... others like : Burraq UCAV (under development)... MALE UAV (under development)... Also produce parts for Turkish Anka UAV...

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## gr8vision

which armed UAV's (combat UAV - UCAVs) does Pakistan make aside from Shahpur and Nescom Burraq?


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## That Guy

gr8vision said:


> which armed UAV's (combat UAV - UCAVs) does Pakistan make aside from Shahpur and Nescom Burraq?



None, and the Burraq is still considered to be under development, because there have been no official confirmations on it's deployment. The Shahpur is not technically an armed UAV, though, there have been rumors that the military has been testing it with domestically made and Chinese made laser designators and missiles.



jamesseo89 said:


> I think PN should acquire a good deal of UAVs Like:
> 30 Uqaab
> 30 Burraq
> 
> For survelliance and Reconassiance as operating MPAs everytime is cost consuming...
> 
> Concentrating more and more on Maritime security can easily ensure safer Pakistan.



All branches of the military are investing heavily in drone tech, including the PN. The PN has less money to play around with than the PA and PAF, but it's still making progress towards naval UAVs.


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## Yzd Khalifa

@That Guy 

Has Pakistan introduced any armed UAV yet? 

Happy Eid to you BTW, even though it came a bit late, I apologize


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## Kompromat

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @That Guy
> 
> Has Pakistan introduced any armed UAV yet?
> 
> Happy Eid to you BTW, even though it came a bit late, I apologize



Pakistan has a handful of CH-3s.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Aeronaut said:


> Pakistan has a handful of CH-3s.



Okaik


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## Umair Nawaz

Argus Panoptes said:


> So they have clear red lights and fly half a kilometer INSIDE the border. So what's the problem here?



The problem is that they r indians i think they need to wear their country a bhurka.......

Reminds me of something like this...

Parosi khirki sy mery ghar main meri biwi ko jhank marr raha ha.......Indians Complaining!!!!!!!


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## That Guy

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @That Guy
> 
> Has Pakistan introduced any armed UAV yet?
> 
> Happy Eid to you BTW, even though it came a bit late, I apologize



Happy Eid to you too 

Anyways, not officially. Pakistan is officially known to be working on armed drones, but unofficially Pakistan may already be operating them. Pakistan has previously announced that it would be buying Chinese armed drones the ***CH-3 (more info on that at the bottom) capable of firing blue arrow missiles, which are rumored to be around the same effectiveness as a hellfire missile that the predator carries.

There were 2 suspicious drone attacks in february of this year which the CIA denied were theirs, which means that if their telling the truth, then either the Burraq UCAV that Pakistan has been working on was used, or a Chinese UCAV was used.

The Burraq UAV is said to still be in development, but some folks on the forums have suggested that the drone is operational, but is only being hidden due to perceived Pakistani public negativity towards armed UAVs, though none of them have proven their claims and I have no reason to believe them.

***Suspiciously, the CH-3 uses the same body frame as the Shahpur, leading many to believe that China transferred the technology of the drone to Pakistan, and that Pakistan's Shahpur UAV may unofficially be armed, though that has never been proven. The CH-3 agreement was also thought to include the upgrade of the system to the CH-4 UAV, also known to carry weapons. The CH-4 uses a similar looking air-frame to the predator UAV.

Here are some pictures for comparisons...

*CH-3 UCAV*






*Shahpur UAV*





*CH-4 UCAV*





*Predator UCAV*





Does Pakistan have UCAVs? You be the judge, because at this point, I have no clue.

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## Yzd Khalifa

@That Guy


> Does Pakistan have UCAVs? You be the judge, because at this point, I have no clue.



Of course you guys have them by now, but didn't test them yet  right?

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## That Guy

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @That Guy
> 
> 
> Of course you guys have them by now, but didn't test them yet  right?



Who knows? Maybe we have them, maybe we're still working on them. Considering that the Pakistani public has no appetite for armed drones, I don't know if PA would admit to anything.

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## Yzd Khalifa

That Guy said:


> Who knows? Maybe we have them, maybe we're still working on them. Considering that the Pakistani public has no appetite for armed drones, I don't know if PA would admit to anything.



That's not what Aeronutz said  
@Aeronaut

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## That Guy

Yzd Khalifa said:


> That's not what Aeronutz said
> @Aeronaut



He's a good guy and more knowledgeable than me and most people on the forums. Perhaps he's right?

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## Nishan_101

That Guy said:


> Happy Eid to you too
> 
> Anyways, not officially. Pakistan is officially known to be working on armed drones, but unofficially Pakistan may already be operating them. Pakistan has previously announced that it would be buying Chinese armed drones the ***CH-3 (more info on that at the bottom) capable of firing blue arrow missiles, which are rumored to be around the same effectiveness as a hellfire missile that the predator carries.
> 
> There were 2 suspicious drone attacks in february of this year which the CIA denied were theirs, which means that if their telling the truth, then either the Burraq UCAV that Pakistan has been working on was used, or a Chinese UCAV was used.
> 
> The Burraq UAV is said to still be in development, but some folks on the forums have suggested that the drone is operational, but is only being hidden due to perceived Pakistani public negativity towards armed UAVs, though none of them have proven their claims and I have no reason to believe them.
> 
> ***Suspiciously, the CH-3 uses the same body frame as the Shahpur, leading many to believe that China transferred the technology of the drone to Pakistan, and that Pakistan's Shahpur UAV may unofficially be armed, though that has never been proven. The CH-3 agreement was also thought to include the upgrade of the system to the CH-4 UAV, also known to carry weapons. The CH-4 uses a similar looking air-frame to the predator UAV.
> 
> Here are some pictures for comparisons...
> 
> *CH-3 UCAV*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Shahpur UAV*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CH-4 UCAV*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Predator UCAV*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Pakistan have UCAVs? You be the judge, because at this point, I have no clue.



I also believe that copied version of Preditor is the Burraq or may be PAC has designed something similar too. But PAF might not disclose the presence of Burraq for long.

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## Yzd Khalifa

That Guy said:


> He's a good guy and more knowledgeable than me and most people on the forums. Perhaps he's right?



You guys both are great. But, since he said that the PA has already obtained handful of CH3s, then I take his word as it is.

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## Nishan_101

fatman17 said:


> China Provides Key to Pakistani Bandwidth Requirements
> 
> Mar. 27, 2013 - 08:19AM | By USMAN ANSARI
> 
> 
> ISLAMABAD &#8212; Pakistan continues to transform its military into a network-enabled force but will remain reliant on China to provide the bandwidth.
> 
> According to the military, its improved communication and surveillance capabilities, through employment of intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets such as UAVs, aerial imaging and early warning platforms, were first resolutely tested in the Azm-e-Nau/New Resolve exercise in 2010.
> 
> However, according to Brian Cloughley, former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad, full communication and networking capabilities have not yet trickled down to front-line units, although at higher levels, this could be a different picture.
> 
> &#8220;Communications in the Army seem to me to be pretty basic, but of course all I&#8217;ve actually seen are the command posts and so forth in Mohmand and Swat; the higher-level arrangements, as in all armies, are strictly out of bounds to any but those with highest clearance.&#8221;
> 
> Pakistan may already be sharing bandwidth on Chinese satellites, he said. Despite the size of the Pakistani military and its recent modernization efforts, some analysts do not believe Pakistan requires a dedicated military communications satellite, and that an arrangement with China should be sufficient for its needs.
> 
> Elizabeth Quintana, senior research fellow in air power and technology at the Royal United Services Institute think tank, said this is not unusual.
> 
> &#8220;Many countries buy bandwidth from allied nations or commercial suppliers. The U.S. military is 80 percent reliant on commercial SATCOM, for example, and that is not likely to change,&#8221; she said. However, she said it is not impossible that Pakistan would consider developing its own indigenous satellite communications assets.
> 
> &#8220;Having an indigenous SATCOM capability is largely a political decision [for national prestige, etc.] and, in some ways, may be a military decision if they believe they need an independent SATCOM capability and/or one that they could also offer to allies in return for access to other assets, such as Beidou [the Chinese GPS equivalent],&#8221; Quintana said.
> 
> Pakistan&#8217;s satellite capabilities are at a very early stage, however, so no such decision is expected soon.
> 
> While relying on Chinese satellite assets would seem highly advantageous, Quintana highlights some drawbacks.
> 
> &#8220;Using Chinese SATCOM would definitely hinder the Pakistanis from obtaining U.S. equipment that requires the use of SATCOM &#8212; MALE [medium-altitude, long-endurance] UAVs, such as Predator, for example,&#8221; she said.
> 
> Such an arrangement would give Beijing considerable influence over its South Asian ally.
> 
> &#8220;This is the problem for any small nation wishing to take advantage of investments that larger, more powerful allies have already made,&#8221; Quintana said.
> 
> Benefits Pakistan could derive from sharing bandwidth on a Chinese satellite, Quintana said, include access to a dedicated asset it may not be able to acquire for itself and access to China&#8217;s Beidou satellites. And in times of conflict, an enemy might refrain from attacking these assets for fear of drawing China into the fight.
> 
> &#8220;Additionally, if Pakistani systems utilize multiple [positioning, navigating and targeting] systems Beidou/GPS/Glonass/Galileo, it enhances resilience in the event of service failure or jamming,&#8221; Quintana said.
> 
> Having access to Chinese satellites would give Pakistan a signals relay capability, the lack of which has hindered the operation of MALE and high-altitude, long-endurance (HALE) UAVs.
> 
> The data-link range of Pakistan&#8217;s tactical UAVs is stated as 200 to 250 kilometers.
> 
> Raja Sabri Khan, chief executive of Integrated Dynamics, a high-profile Pakistan UAV developer, said designing new types with the &#8220;performances to allow utilization of satellite communication links to their fullest potential&#8221; could become reality with a SATCOM capability.
> 
> All of the technological building blocks and technologies to develop MALE UAVs are in place, he said.
> 
> For more local use of MALE UAVs, he said, &#8220;simpler systems, such as repeaters [used commonly to boost cellular signals for increased coverage and range], can fill in as alternatives for thousands of kilometers of range if you plan to fly over your own territory&#8221;.
> 
> A SATCOM capability is a necessity for maritime patrol, an area where the Navy has started to operate tactical UAVs, and for the operation of HALE-type UAVs, Khan said.



Pakistan should offer Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan, Oman and other GCC(Qatar, Bahrain and Kuwait) to join in the development of two types of Satellites system:

Communication Satellites
Navigational Satellites

As there would be good number of both types of Satellites covering the whole eath on fixed orbits and will offer complete coverage for Navigation as well as for Communication.

And we can earn good deal of money from them too by lending some bandwidth as well as GPS facilities to others.



Yzd Khalifa said:


> You guys both are great. But, since he said that the PA has already obtained handful of CH3s, then I take his word as it is.



But can you change your AVATAR and Picture to any decent looking thing. I mean try not to use such animals nor any living thing in pictures. Rather you can place you favorite weapons or jets instead.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Nishan_101 said:


> But can you change your AVATAR and Picture to any decent looking thing. I mean try not to use such animals nor any living thing in pictures. Rather you can place you favorite weapons or jets instead.



Will try my best Sir.

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## That Guy

Nishan_101 said:


> I also believe that copied version of Preditor is the Burraq or may be PAC has designed something similar too. But PAF might not disclose the presence of Burraq for long.



The Burraq is rumored to be a heavily modified Falco UAV, which Pakistan has a licence from Italy to mass produce.

If you look at it, you'll notice that it looks nothing like a Predator.







Yzd Khalifa said:


> You guys both are great. But, since he said that the PA has already obtained handful of CH3s, then I take his word as it is.



Thanks, I do too.

I've always known that PA ordered the CH-3, but I just never knew if the armed versions were delivered.

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## BATMAN

^^ Burraq had been under development much earlier than contract with falco.
It has nothing to do with falco, which is entirely different platform.

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## That Guy

BATMAN said:


> ^^ Burraq had been under development much earlier than contract with falco.
> It has nothing to do with falco, which is entirely different platform.



Burraq is a concept, dare I say it, just a code name for the project. Before the Falco, it was said that Pakistan was trying to use it's own medium sized drones to develop a UCAV, after the Falco, NESCOM was said to start using Falco platform after it's induction, because it was the most capable drone (and arguably still is) in Pakistan's UAV inventory. The Shahpar was said to also be a candidate in the Burraq program, but since GIDS is the one behind the Shahpar program, I doubt it.

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## BATMAN

^^ Things are not as you like to see them.
Burraq has been in development far early than falco.

Burraq is not a concept and is totally different platform than falco.

GIDS already had UQAB and even inducted by navy, much before falco, it looks like falco perhaps its this one you are confusing.

Pakistan has list of operational UAVs .. like SATUMA, Flamingo etc.

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## That Guy

BATMAN said:


> ^^ Things are not as you like to see them.
> Burraq has been in development far early than falco.
> 
> Burraq is not a concept and is totally different platform than falco.
> 
> GIDS already had UQAB and even inducted by navy, much before falco, it looks like falco perhaps its this one you are confusing.
> 
> Pakistan has list of operational UAVs .. like SATUMA, Flamingo etc.



I don't even know how to respond to this comment. The amount of information (including my comment) about the drones that you're outright ignoring, is outstanding. It seems that politics isn't the only thing we disagree on.

I have a question for you, what is the platform for the Burraq? Do you know how it looks like?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*RAWALPINDI: Pakistan has inducted the first fleet of indigenously developed Strategic Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) also referred to as drones, Burraq and Shahpur in the Army and Air Force.*



A press release by the media wing of the armed forces (ISPR) called the induction a “historic and landmark event, wherein a very effective force multiplier has been added to the inventory of the Armed Forces.” According to the ISPR, in the future these UAVs could also be gainfully employed in various socio-economic development projects as well.



The induction ceremony was attended by Army Chief, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshall Tahir Rafique, Director General Strategic Plans Divisions, General (retd) Khalid Ahmed Kidwai, senior officers from Armed Forces, scientists and engineers.





Army Chief Kayani while appreciating the work of NESCOM scientists and engineers, highlighted that induction of indigenously developed surveillance capable UAVs in Pakistan Armed Forces is a force multiplier, and will substantially enhance their target acquisition capabilities in real time.



Earlier on Monday, Army Chief Kayani paid a farewell visit to Air Headquarters in Islamabad. During his visit, the Army chief called on Air Chief Marshall Tahir Rafique Butt. The Air Chief lauded General Kayani’s services in strengthening the defence of Pakistan and contributing towards unprecedented Tri-Service synergy.

UAVs inducted in Pakistan Army and Air fleet - thenews.com.pk





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=597996206922474





*Quad-rotors and Hexa-Rotors — VR — Goggles ---- Defense Exhibition 2012:
*







NRTC had a high-tech version of that at IDEAS, called the Air Scout. This unmanned aerial system (UAS) has search and rescue abilities, urban surveillance and counter-terrorism potential. The built-in cameras can provide live video feeds and can be customised for thermal imaging, night vision, extended flight or weather proofing. Imagine the advantages of having one hovering between buildings and reporting on the proceedings at a rally, procession, protest or dharna! The system comes with a cool set of goggles that provide the pilot with point of view video for controlling the craft.

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## Nishan_101

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *RAWALPINDI: Pakistan has inducted the first fleet of indigenously developed Strategic Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) also referred to as drones, Burraq and Shahpur in the Army and Air Force.*
> 
> 
> 
> A press release by the media wing of the armed forces (ISPR) called the induction a “historic and landmark event, wherein a very effective force multiplier has been added to the inventory of the Armed Forces.” According to the ISPR, in the future these UAVs could also be gainfully employed in various socio-economic development projects as well.
> 
> 
> 
> The induction ceremony was attended by Army Chief, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshall Tahir Rafique, Director General Strategic Plans Divisions, General (retd) Khalid Ahmed Kidwai, senior officers from Armed Forces, scientists and engineers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Army Chief Kayani while appreciating the work of NESCOM scientists and engineers, highlighted that induction of indigenously developed surveillance capable UAVs in Pakistan Armed Forces is a force multiplier, and will substantially enhance their target acquisition capabilities in real time.
> 
> 
> 
> Earlier on Monday, Army Chief Kayani paid a farewell visit to Air Headquarters in Islamabad. During his visit, the Army chief called on Air Chief Marshall Tahir Rafique Butt. The Air Chief lauded General Kayani’s services in strengthening the defence of Pakistan and contributing towards unprecedented Tri-Service synergy.
> 
> UAVs inducted in Pakistan Army and Air fleet - thenews.com.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=597996206922474
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Quad-rotors and Hexa-Rotors — VR — Goggles ---- Defense Exhibition 2012:
> *
> 
> View attachment 11114
> 
> 
> 
> NRTC had a high-tech version of that at IDEAS, called the Air Scout. This unmanned aerial system (UAS) has search and rescue abilities, urban surveillance and counter-terrorism potential. The built-in cameras can provide live video feeds and can be customised for thermal imaging, night vision, extended flight or weather proofing. Imagine the advantages of having one hovering between buildings and reporting on the proceedings at a rally, procession, protest or dharna! The system comes with a cool set of goggles that provide the pilot with point of view video for controlling the craft.



I think all the three divisions must induct these system as soon as possible...

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Nishan_101 said:


> I think all the three divisions must induct these system as soon as possible...



They are already in service...

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## Hakan

According to wikipedia Pakistan Aeronautical Complex is involved in the development of the Turkish Anka. Can anyone give me the details of pakistans involvement?

Thanks.

TAI Anka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## krash

Kaan said:


> According to wikipedia Pakistan Aeronautical Complex is involved in the development of the Turkish Anka. Can anyone give me the details of pakistans involvement?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> TAI Anka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Heard this before too. Probably some parts or research outsourced to PAC to save time and money.We have been making all sorts of drones for quite some time, exported some to the US too. Nothing out of the ordinary between Pakistan and Turkey. Boeing also has some of its parts made there. Might be more or less, this is just my speculation.

Edit: 

Found this,



> Pakistan, which has for much of the past decade has sought to acquire unmanned aerial vehicles (UCAV), a platform used by the US in Pakistan despite numerous protests by the government, has started export of drone parts.On Monday, officials at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Kamra handed over the first batch of parts created for the Turkish UAV (ANKA) to the Turkish Aerospace Industry (TAI) in a ceremony held during the International Defence Exhibition and Fair (IDEF) at Istanbul, Turkey.After the signing ceremony, President and CEO of TAI Muharrem Dortkasli expressed his satisfaction on the skill and knowledge possessed by PAC, Kamra for undertaking such assignments.Dortkasli expressed that many more collaborations would be undertaken in the future as well.Pakistan has been seeking access to drones and has experimented in indigenously constructing drones.



Pakistan builds parts for TAI ANKA Drone.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Kaan said:


> According to wikipedia Pakistan Aeronautical Complex is involved in the development of the Turkish Anka. Can anyone give me the details of pakistans involvement?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> TAI Anka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Pakistan builds parts for Turkey drones

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## Nishan_101

Kaan said:


> According to wikipedia Pakistan Aeronautical Complex is involved in the development of the Turkish Anka. Can anyone give me the details of pakistans involvement?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> TAI Anka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


If its true then there is possibility of seeing our own design in Predator B class or the same UCAV in our inventory very soon.

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## random123

So any new UAVs coming???

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## hoclaixeoto

The Falco has been deployed on surveillance and target 'hunting' missions

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## saadi82112002

fatman17 said:


> *Pakistan using UAVs in 'drone war' against terrorist elements*
> 
> Robert Hewson Jane's Air-Launched Weapons Editor - London
> 
> Key Points
> 
> Pakistan has been using Falco UAVs to help combat militants in the country's remote tribal areas
> 
> The Falco has been deployed on surveillance and target 'hunting' missions
> 
> 
> Pakistan has quietly been conducting its own 'drone war' against militant forces and terrorist elements using Selex-Galileo Falco tactical unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), Jane's has learned.
> 
> *According to a number of industry officials who have been in Pakistan and experienced UAV operations there, the Pakistani military is using unarmed Falcos for traditional surveillance tasks but also in a 'hunter' role - targeting air strikes, providing real-time coverage of attacks and then delivering battle damage assessments.*
> 
> *Selex-Galileo has declined to identify the single nation currently flying the Falco in front-line operations but that customer is known to be Pakistan, with Pakistan Air Force (PAF) chief Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed having told Jane's in November that the PAF would begin using the Falco in live operations by the start of 2009.*
> 
> *Pakistan has ordered five Falco systems, each comprising four air vehicles plus one spare and a ground control system (GCS). Two complete systems are now in service, two more are working up to deployment and one has just been delivered.*
> 
> *The Falcos are flying intensively, as noted by one source who told Jane's : "The customer is using more than one system every single day." *
> 
> The Falcos have operated in several regions of concern to the Pakistan government, including the mountainous Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) along the Afghan border. *This was alluded to by an official who noted that the Falco's hot-and-high capabilities had been proven in operations "from airfields at 1,000 m altitude in circumstances identical to Afghanistan".*
> 
> "The Falcos have two basic missions," said one programme source: "surveillance of critical areas - and there are a lot of them - and operations as part of a manned and unmanned mixed fleet, in combat.
> 
> "Surveillance means identifying and tracking critical targets like convoys or 'terrorist establishments'. In hunter operations the Falco goes out looking for targets, identifies them and relays their position to the command and control centre, where priority-one targets are allocated for attack by fast jets.
> 
> *"The sensor system is world-beating and can easily ID an individual person from the appropriate altitude. The target handover is done through the GCS to the military's C4I system, and it's done quickly - sometimes less than 20 minutes, sometimes less than 10. *
> 
> *"When the attack is inbound the Falco will climb and loiter at a higher altitude. It can provide a real-time view of the attack, although that's over in seconds, and then do an immediate damage assessment. I have witnessed several of these operations. It's not being done on paper; these are real missions." *
> 
> Selex-Galileo says that, despite customer interest, it has no ambitions to develop an armed Falco for export. An armed variant could materialise if a requirement emerged in its domestic markets (Italy and the UK) but the company believes that having a weapon capability would exclude the Falco from several potential markets elsewhere. "You start to encounter Missile Technology Control Regime regulations and other limitations," said one official.
> 
> *The current air vehicle has a limited payload and would be restricted to two 30 kg-class weapons - although this would double in planned growth versions of the Falco. Selex-Galileo notes an interest in the Thales Lightweight Multirole Missile (LMM) as a theoretical future weapon option.*
> 
> The Falco XN - the variant currently in service - has a 420 kg maximum take-off weight (MTOW) with a 70 kg sensor payload. Endurance lasts from eight to 14 hours and the UAV has a datalinked range of 200 km.
> 
> Selex-Galileo has now developed the Falco Evo (Evolution) upgrade, which can be retrofitted to existing Falcos. The Evo adds longer wings and tailbooms, increasing MTOW to 750 kg with a 120 kg payload. Endurance is increased to a maximum of 18 hours and the Evo can exceed the XN's 6000 m altitude limit.
> 
> Selex-Galileo is building four Falco Evo prototypes, with first flight scheduled for the second quarter of 2010. The company believes that its existing customer is a strong sales prospect for the Evo and it hopes to double or even triple the installed Falco fleet there.



Let me give you good news, Pakistan is also developing its own UAVs at a military research Institute near Islamabad.

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## Wolfhound

is pakistan ever going to induct any male or hale uav?

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## shaheenmissile

Hakan said:


> According to wikipedia Pakistan Aeronautical Complex is involved in the development of the Turkish Anka. Can anyone give me the details of pakistans involvement?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> TAI Anka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Last time i checked it was Harnesses. All the cabling and connectors used in ANKA were made by PAC Kamra. But Turks had given further parts contract to PAC,of which i am unaware.

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## Kompromat



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## Zarvan

Horus said:


> View attachment 161902


I went to get rotis from tandoor when I picked up the news paper I got a article about our drones here are the major points
1: Faisal Jahanzeb from Global Industrial & Defence solutions that indigenous drone technology could be compared to any developed nation including USA.
2: Presently drone technology is being used for surveilliance and development of unmanned aircraft carrying missiles which would be completed in next few months.
3 : Faisal said other features of tactical UAV include accurate lateral, longitudinal trajectory control, mission planning, management and control, geo referncing and geo-pointing for terrestrial targets.
4: He also said for day and night surviellance, GIDS had developed highly stabilized system Zumr-1 ( EP ) which was low in weight and small in size. Zumr-1 has capability to track targets either person, land or any movable objects from the height of 20000 feet besides sending real time video and telemetry through infrared from 250 KM distance.
5: He also told that two different types of technologies- target the object through chip and laser guided targets being used in unmanned armed aircrafts. He also said GIDS was working on both technologies and in next few months, Pakistani drones would be capable to carry missiles and used for combat.
@Horus @WebMaster @Oscar @Arsalan @ajpirzada @fatman17 @nair @SpArK @Manticore @Irfan Baloch @Abu Zolfiqar @waz @Chak Bamu @Icarus

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## Saifullah Sani

:: GIDS - Empowering the World ::



Zarvan said:


> I went to get rotis from tandoor when I picked up the news paper I got a article about our drones here are the major points
> 1: Faisal Jahanzeb from Global Industrial & Defence solutions that indigenous drone technology could be compared to any developed nation including USA.
> 2: Presently drone technology is being used for surveilliance and development of unmanned aircraft carrying missiles which would be completed in next few months.
> 3 : Faisal said other features of tactical UAV include accurate lateral, longitudinal trajectory control, mission planning, management and control, geo referncing and geo-pointing for terrestrial targets.
> 4: He also said for day and night surviellance, GIDS had developed highly stabilized system Zumr-1 ( EP ) which was low in weight and small in size. Zumr-1 has capability to track targets either person, land or any movable objects from the height of 20000 feet besides sending real time video and telemetry through infrared from 250 KM distance.
> 5: He also told that two different types of technologies- target the object through chip and laser guided targets being used in unmanned armed aircrafts. He also said GIDS was working on both technologies and in next few months, Pakistani drones would be capable to carry missiles and used for combat.
> @Horus @WebMaster @Oscar @Arsalan @ajpirzada @fatman17 @nair @SpArK @Manticore @Irfan Baloch @Abu Zolfiqar @waz @Chak Bamu @



no Zumr-1 on Global Industrial & Defence solutions web site: :: GIDS - Empowering the World ::

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## Wolfhound

Saifullah Sani said:


> View attachment 177920
> View attachment 177921
> View attachment 177922
> View attachment 177923
> 
> 
> :: GIDS - Empowering the World ::
> 
> 
> 
> no Zumr-1 on Global Industrial & Defence solutions web site: :: GIDS - Empowering the World ::


no new developments?

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## JamD

I have heard from a source in SUPARCO that they are ready to tested a locally developed Synthetic Aperture Radar on an airborne platform. For this purpose a team from SUPARCO is currently in PAC Kamra and a test flight is expected around 10th to 18th of June 2015. I doubt it will be reported in the news as it has little propaganda value (unlike lets say a flashy missile test).

I couldn't fish for any more details and I obviously can't give or name a source but this is very good news for us

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## cabatli_53

TAI outsourced some share of ANKA-A fuselage production to Pakistan. In parallel to that, I think Pakistan will receive some share on production of ANKA-B and ANKA-S variants as well. We should improve such mutual collaborations over strategic systems. 



> Anka-B
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anka-S

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## mrrehan

New technologies and chines reply 

Future weapons: DARPA's Upward Falling Payloads to hide U.S. drones deep underwater





China: Sea drone to be returned after US origin verified


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## DESERT FIGHTER

mrrehan said:


> New technologies and chines reply
> 
> Future weapons: DARPA's Upward Falling Payloads to hide U.S. drones deep underwater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China: Sea drone to be returned after US origin verified



Pakistani scientist couple leads the way with underwater drones in Australia

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1013181...-the-way-with-underwater-drones-in-australia/

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## fatman17

Air Platforms
*IDEX 2017: GIDS moves to enhance Shahpar, develop MALE*
*Huw Williams, Abu Dhabi* - IHS Jane's International Defence Review
23 February 2017.



Pakistan's Global Industry and Defence Solutions (GIDS) is in the process of enhancing the capabilities of its Shahpar unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) and working to develop a larger system.

Speaking to _Jane's_ at IDEX 2017 in Abu Dhabi, Asad Kamal, GIDS' director of sales and marketing, said that enhancements to the Shahpar tactical UAV will focus on the introduction of a new powerplant.

The aircraft is currently equipped with a four-cylinder, four-stroke Rotax 912 ULS unit, developing 100 hp; the new, more powerful engine will also be sourced from overseas, Kamal said.





The Shahpar is set to receive a new powerplant. (GIDS)

Pakistan's military currently operates two systems procured from European manufacturers - the Luna and Falco. Kamal said that as indigenous capabilities progress these will be phased out of service and the enhancements to the Shahpar are part of that process.

Shahpar provides a tactical-level intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) capability and does not feature an offensive capability - unlike the Pakistan military's other tactical system, the Burraq, which is manufactured by the National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM). The aircraft features a canard and swept-wing configuration with a pusher propeller, a belly-mounted gimballed payload, and a tricycle undercarriage.

The aircraft has a payload capacity of 50 kg, an endurance of more than 7 hours, a ceiling of 17,000 ft, and the ability to operate to a range of 250 km via its standard datalink.

Development of a medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) system, Kamal said, is a logical step for GIDS as the company looks to enhance its and Pakistan's capabilities in the field of UAVs. The effort is in its early stages and the company is awaiting more information from the military as to what its requirements might be.

Elsewhere GIDS is developing an enhanced version of its Zumr-1 electro-optical/infrared ISR payload. The Zumr-2 is set to complete testing at the end of the year and among other improvements will introduce a laser designator; however, with a projected weight of around 32 kg, it will be roughly the same as the earlier model, which weighs 30 kg.


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## fatman17



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## amardeep mishra

JamD said:


> I have heard from a source in SUPARCO that they are ready to tested a locally developed Synthetic Aperture Radar on an airborne platform. For this purpose a team from SUPARCO is currently in PAC Kamra and a test flight is expected around 10th to 18th of June 2015. I doubt it will be reported in the news as it has little propaganda value (unlike lets say a flashy missile test).
> 
> I couldn't fish for any more details and I obviously can't give or name a source but this is very good news for us


Hi @JamD
Thats great indeed! btw,I was wondering if it is this link you were alluding to-
http://grel.ist.edu.pk/downloads/AntennasSARcourse/Brochure_AntennasforSAR.pdf
or
http://isnet.org.pk/pages/activities-2016-02.asp
I am sure SAR isnt a strategic system and revealing it wouldnt really result in embargo. I know,people get offended if they're faced with the prospect of backing their claims,but I am sure a simple link from SUPARCO would be really appreciated!
Before you accuse me of ignorance,I would like to inform you that I have already checked out SUPARCO's website and the only relevant and credible links I could dig up on internet are those I have posted above!
Also note- I am NOT asking for the name of source or even the details--just the link from the designers that so and so research project is actually going on.


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## JamD

amardeep mishra said:


> Hi @JamD
> Thats great indeed! btw,I was wondering if it is this link you were alluding to-
> http://grel.ist.edu.pk/downloads/AntennasSARcourse/Brochure_AntennasforSAR.pdf
> or
> http://isnet.org.pk/pages/activities-2016-02.asp
> I am sure SAR isnt a strategic system and revealing it wouldnt really result in embargo. I know,people get offended if they're faced with the prospect of backing their claims,but I am sure a simple link from SUPARCO would be really appreciated!
> Before you accuse me of ignorance,I would like to inform you that I have already checked out SUPARCO's website and the only relevant and credible links I could dig up on internet are those I have posted above!
> Also note- I am NOT asking for the name of source or even the details--just the link from the designers that so and so research project is actually going on.


There is none, sorry.

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## raahaat7

JamD said:


> There is none, sorry.


Sir, are the engines for Burraq made localy or imported. If not then what is the state of devolopment of an engine in pakistan @fatman17.


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## Safriz

amardeep mishra said:


> Hi @JamD
> Thats great indeed! btw,I was wondering if it is this link you were alluding to-
> http://grel.ist.edu.pk/downloads/AntennasSARcourse/Brochure_AntennasforSAR.pdf
> or
> http://isnet.org.pk/pages/activities-2016-02.asp
> I am sure SAR isnt a strategic system and revealing it wouldnt really result in embargo. I know,people get offended if they're faced with the prospect of backing their claims,but I am sure a simple link from SUPARCO would be really appreciated!
> Before you accuse me of ignorance,I would like to inform you that I have already checked out SUPARCO's website and the only relevant and credible links I could dig up on internet are those I have posted above!
> Also note- I am NOT asking for the name of source or even the details--just the link from the designers that so and so research project is actually going on.


Suparco was involved because they have an antenna testing lab and one of them radio silent rooms where transmissions' cam be mapped without interference.
You won't find a link about the tests but you may find something about above mentioned antenna lab.


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## amardeep mishra

شاھین میزایل said:


> Suparco was involved because they have an antenna testing lab and one of them radio silent rooms where transmissions' cam be mapped without interference.
> You won't find a link about the tests but you may find something about above mentioned antenna lab.


hi shaheen missile!
So your argument stems from the fact that they have an antenna testing lab;hence they have a SAR too! Even if I concede to your remarks,which to be honest I dont have any problem conceding,I find it difficult to understand as to why they wouldnt put it up on their website--after all it is SAR and has no strategic significance. Now I know of some radar related project that was going on in some pakistani university but then again we dont know what happened to that system. I used to follow radars some 3-4 years back,but then I changed my field of specialization. 
In the end I would like to highlight that the only links I could dig up on SAR related activities in pakistan are those that I have mentioned above.In case,I missed something do feel free to correct me!


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## Safriz

amardeep mishra said:


> hi shaheen missile!
> So your argument stems from the fact that they have an antenna testing lab;hence they have a SAR too! Even if I concede to your remarks,which to be honest I dont have any problem conceding,I find it difficult to understand as to why they wouldnt put it up on their website--after all it is SAR and has no strategic significance. Now I know of some radar related project that was going on in some Pakistani university but then again we dont know what happened to that system. I used to follow radars some 3-4 years back,but then I changed my field of specialization.
> In the end I would like to highlight that the only links I could dig up on SAR related activities in pakistan are those that I have mentioned above.In case,I missed something do feel free to correct me!


No you wont find any specific details on the internet. It has to do with the stupid secrecy Regime NESCOM maintains. University students are contracted to work on defence projects and they are strictly prohibited from talking about their work with NESCOM. I once found the private contractor who wrote the C language firmware for JF-17 thunder years ago and still wont talk about it as according to him he was bound by oath not to give out "national secrets". Likewise all Pakistani Ballistic missile launches can be seen and recorded from a certain Public beach,but you don't see any high definition recordings of those launches posted on internet as people don't do it as a matter of national character. Pakistani public doesn't like to give out what they consider as national secrets.


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## amardeep mishra

شاھین میزایل said:


> I once found the private contractor who wrote the C language firmware for JF-17 thunder years ago and still wont talk about it as according to him he was bound by oath not to give out "national secrets".


H! Shaheen Missile!
If I am not mistaken the control laws of JF-17 were designed by CATIC. In modern fighter jets they use something known as Model Reference Adaptive Controller or MRAC. Now the adaptation law is what makes the real system behave like the "reference system" stored in the on-board computer. You can of course code it(the control law) in any language of your choice,however ADA and C are preferred because of low latencies. Kindly note Control Law(MRAC) is not coding,it is pure mathematics--which is based on some system structure-Now the reason why I use the term "system structure" instead of "system model" is because I assume there are lot of uncertainties in parameters of differential equation that describe the system(a fighter jet in our case). Of course you still need those various parameters so that you can 'model' your reference system in onboard computer.And to model it,you'd need a wealth of data--data that comes from painstaking wind-tunnel experiments in various AoAs and mach regimes!
I am curious to know what exactly were they coding,but I know fully well the shady ways in which organizations are structured in pakistan,it is very difficult to comment. Anyways have a nice day!


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## Thorough Pro

I pity people who ask for links like every project is required to have one other-wise the project itself don't exist.





JamD said:


> There is none, sorry.

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## amardeep mishra

شاھین میزایل said:


> Likewise all Pakistani Ballistic missile launches can be seen and recorded from a certain Public beach,but you don't see any high definition recordings of those launches posted on internet as people don't do it as a matter of national character.


I agree! Fair enough,I have never seen any high def video of any of pakistani missile launches,I guess that is more to do with the philosophy of pakistani nuclear program- AMBIGUITY! It is starkly different from Indian launches that are performed at wheeler island(off the coast of orissa),wherein a reasonably good video is uploaded by DRDO after every launch. Not only that,if you attend DRDO/ISRO research seminars you can even find their test firings of rockets on a load cell and various graphs showing various performance parameters.


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## Thorough Pro

@amardeep mishra 

Hi
Please first read the statement highlighted in blue (3 times will help)
now read the red highlighted statement from your response (once is enough)
now tell me, would I be wrong if I thought you were a retard?




شاھین میزایل said:


> *Suparco was involved because they have an antenna testing lab and one of them radio silent rooms where transmissions' cam be mapped without interference.
> You won't find a link about the tests but you may find something about above mentioned antenna lab*.





amardeep mishra said:


> hi shaheen missile!
> *So your argument stems from the fact that they have an antenna testing lab;hence they have a SAR too!* Even if I concede to your remarks,which to be honest I dont have any problem conceding,I find it difficult to understand as to why they wouldnt put it up on their website--after all it is SAR and has no strategic significance. Now I know of some radar related project that was going on in some pakistani university but then again we dont know what happened to that system. I used to follow radars some 3-4 years back,but then I changed my field of specialization.
> In the end I would like to highlight that the only links I could dig up on SAR related activities in pakistan are those that I have mentioned above.In case,I missed something do feel free to correct me!


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## Safriz

amardeep mishra said:


> H! Shaheen Missile!
> If I am not mistaken the control laws of JF-17 were designed by CATIC. In modern fighter jets they use something known as Model Reference Adaptive Controller or MRAC. Now the adaptation law is what makes the real system behave like the "reference system" stored in the on-board computer. You can of course code it(the control law) in any language of your choice,however ADA and C are preferred because of low latencies. Kindly note Control Law(MRAC) is not coding,it is pure mathematics--which is based on some system structure-Now the reason why I use the term "system structure" instead of "system model" is because I assume there are lot of uncertainties in parameters of differential equation that describe the system(a fighter jet in our case). Of course you still need those various parameters so that you can 'model' your reference system in onboard computer.And to model it,you'd need a wealth of data--data that comes from painstaking wind-tunnel experiments in various AoAs and mach regimes!
> I am curious to know what exactly were they coding,but I know fully well the shady ways in which organizations are structured in pakistan,it is very difficult to comment. Anyways have a nice day!


In Pakistani case it's the other way round. The parameters you mentioned are copy pasted from elsewhere then tweaks applied. Why do you think JF-17 looks so much like F-16?

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## Dr. Bilal Ahmed

Me and my students have developed a 6 hours endurance UAV this semester. Takeoff weight 50 lb, Payload 12 lb, wing span 10 ft, engine 35 cc. All composite manufacturing. We already published some data. We will also be presenting it at ICASE 2017 Conference in Islamabad this November.

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## Path-Finder

Dr. Bilal Ahmed said:


> Me and my students have developed a 6 hours endurance UAV this semester. Takeoff weight 50 lb, Payload 12 lb, wing span 10 ft, engine 35 cc. All composite manufacturing. We already published some data. We will also be presenting it at ICASE 2017 Conference in Islamabad this November.


Impressive! What composite material is that made of?


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## Dr. Bilal Ahmed

Path-Finder said:


> Impressive! What composite material is that made of?


Thankyou. Carbon fiber and GRP (fiber glass).

Here is another clearer video





We also developed a tiltrotor VTOL UAV





As well as pneumatic UAV catapult launcher (for use in Siachin and on board ships), all for the first time in Pakistan.

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## amardeep mishra

Dr. Bilal Ahmed said:


> Thankyou. Carbon fiber and GRP (fiber glass).
> 
> Here is another clearer video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We also developed a tiltrotor VTOL UAV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As well as pneumatic UAV catapult launcher (for use in Siachin and on board ships), all for the first time in Pakistan.


Hi thanks for the video. We had a similar project wherein we used APM running on ardupilot. I've even developed an adaptive sliding mode controller and coded it in python(to a raspberry pi based autopilot) for my aerial vehicle. Now the unique thing is, my aerial vehicle is all thrust vectored






@Nilgiri
@CriticalThought
@Oscar
That's APM mission planner

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## Sina-1

Saifullah Sani said:


> View attachment 177920
> View attachment 177921
> View attachment 177922
> View attachment 177923
> 
> 
> :: GIDS - Empowering the World ::
> 
> 
> 
> no Zumr-1 on Global Industrial & Defence solutions web site: :: GIDS - Empowering the World ::




Its interesting that Iran uses more arab originated names on its UAVs and Pakistan use more persian originated names on its UAVs. Why is that?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Sina-1 said:


> Its interesting that Iran uses more arab originated names on its UAVs and Pakistan use more persian originated names on its UAVs. Why is that?


Those words are also used in urdu.. among other lingos.

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## cabatli_53

Armed ANKA is finally operational now ! I think It is a good option to be considered.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

fatman17 said:


> Air Platforms
> *IDEX 2017: GIDS moves to enhance Shahpar, develop MALE*
> *Huw Williams, Abu Dhabi* - IHS Jane's International Defence Review
> 23 February 2017.
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan's Global Industry and Defence Solutions (GIDS) is in the process of enhancing the capabilities of its Shahpar unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) and working to develop a larger system.
> 
> Speaking to _Jane's_ at IDEX 2017 in Abu Dhabi, Asad Kamal, GIDS' director of sales and marketing, said that enhancements to the Shahpar tactical UAV will focus on the introduction of a new powerplant.
> 
> The aircraft is currently equipped with a four-cylinder, four-stroke Rotax 912 ULS unit, developing 100 hp; the new, more powerful engine will also be sourced from overseas, Kamal said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Shahpar is set to receive a new powerplant. (GIDS)
> 
> Pakistan's military currently operates two systems procured from European manufacturers - the Luna and Falco. Kamal said that as indigenous capabilities progress these will be phased out of service and the enhancements to the Shahpar are part of that process.
> 
> Shahpar provides a tactical-level intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) capability and does not feature an offensive capability - unlike the Pakistan military's other tactical system, the Burraq, which is manufactured by the National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM). The aircraft features a canard and swept-wing configuration with a pusher propeller, a belly-mounted gimballed payload, and a tricycle undercarriage.
> 
> The aircraft has a payload capacity of 50 kg, an endurance of more than 7 hours, a ceiling of 17,000 ft, and the ability to operate to a range of 250 km via its standard datalink.
> 
> Development of a medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) system, Kamal said, is a logical step for GIDS as the company looks to enhance its and Pakistan's capabilities in the field of UAVs. The effort is in its early stages and the company is awaiting more information from the military as to what its requirements might be.
> 
> Elsewhere GIDS is developing an enhanced version of its Zumr-1 electro-optical/infrared ISR payload. The Zumr-2 is set to complete testing at the end of the year and among other improvements will introduce a laser designator; however, with a projected weight of around 32 kg, it will be roughly the same as the earlier model, which weighs 30 kg.


 
A friend works with SUPARCO told me that they were developing a system to operate the uavs remotely through satellite...

Meaning they can station em in FATA or DR Congo and operate em from some PAF base in sindh.

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## Sameer25

Mercenary said:


> Pakistan also needs to develop an indigenous attack helicopter like the Cobra.


that is going to take forever and since we dont have prior experiences with helicopters it is going to take even longer


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## Major Sam

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> A friend works with SUPARCO told me that they were developing a system to operate the uavs remotely through satellite...
> 
> Meaning they can station em in FATA or DR Congo and operate em from some PAF base in sindh.



They were working on it since few years. I think it should have been completed by now.

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## Incog_nito

Dr. Bilal Ahmed said:


> Me and my students have developed a 6 hours endurance UAV this semester. Takeoff weight 50 lb, Payload 12 lb, wing span 10 ft, engine 35 cc. All composite manufacturing. We already published some data. We will also be presenting it at ICASE 2017 Conference in Islamabad this November.


Sir from which University of Pakistan you belong? Love to connect with you...

Pakistan Zindabad.....

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## BATMAN

That Guy said:


> I don't even know how to respond to this comment. The amount of information (including my comment) about the drones that you're outright ignoring, is outstanding. It seems that politics isn't the only thing we disagree on.
> 
> I have a question for you, what is the platform for the Burraq? Do you know how it looks like?



So now you know Burraq was a real deal and it has nothing common with Falco.

Thanks for someone,,, to draw my attention to one of your for sake disagreements.

In politics, what ever I said was sharp accurate.... this is not the right subject for such discuss, so I only put full stop here.

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## That Guy

BATMAN said:


> So now you know Burraq was a real deal and it has nothing common with Falco.
> 
> Thanks for someone,,, to draw my attention to one of your for sake disagreements.
> 
> In politics, what ever I said was sharp accurate.... this is not the right subject for such discuss, so I only put full stop here.


lol, why did I say that the Burraq was fake? You should actually go back and read my comments. GIDS provided the platform with the Shahpur, and NESCOM provided the technology needed to perform precision strikes, which I still believe were originally tested and intended to be on modified Falcos. It's ridiculous to say that I was wrong, when all the evidence points to my theory being the more logical one.

On the political front, your sense of geopolitical situations, and domestic politics are quite poor.


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## Incog_nito

Oxair Online said:


> Sir from which University of Pakistan you belong? Love to connect with you...
> 
> Pakistan Zindabad.....


from Karachi University - but I did only B.Com. This doesn't mean that I am not a techie person at all. I love tech and I am better than some Engineers  No offence....

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## Sinnerman108

Sina-1 said:


> Its interesting that Iran uses more arab originated names on its UAVs and Pakistan use more persian originated names on its UAVs. Why is that?



Our language URDU is much much closer to Persian than Arabic.

Anyone who knows urdu properly can understand a very good % of persian.

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## Hassan Guy

Pakistan is going to resume production of more advanced unmanned aerial vehicles - Air Marshal Ahmer Shahzad of Pakistan Aeronautical Complex 

https://www.khaleejtimes.com/busine...oducing-commercial-aircraft-in-kamra-official


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## fatman17

Air Platforms

China’s Beihang Unmanned Aircraft System Technology unveils TYW-1 strike-capable UAV






Richard D Fisher Jr - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

15 November 2017

China’s Beihang Unmanned Aircraft System Technology unveiled its TYW-1 strike-capable reconnaissance UAV (seen here) on 13 November. Source: Via YOUUAV.com

China’s Beihang Unmanned Aircraft System Technology unveiled on 13 November its TYW-1 strike-capable reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) and what appeared to be a new version of the BZK-005 multirole medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) UAV at the company’s new factory in the eastern Chinese city of Taizhou.Unveiled on 13 November China's TYW-1 strike-capable reconnaissance UAV features four underwing pylons and is reported to have a maximum take-off weight of 1,500 kg. (Via YOUUAV.com)

The TYW-1, which has a wingspan of 18 m, features the same pusher-engine, twin-boom, outward-canted stabiliser design of the BZK-005, the latter of which is believed to be in service with the People’s Liberation Army (PLA).

The 9.85 m-long and 2.5 m-high TYW-1, however, is reported to have a maximum take-off weight of 1,500 kg compared with the 1,250 kg of the BZK-005.

According to Chinese media reports, the TYW-1 can carry a 370 kg payload, features four underwing pylons, has a ceiling of 7.5 km, an endurance of 40 hours, and can reach a top speed of 200 km/h.

The UAV is also equipped with an electro-optical system that can reportedly read a licence plate 50 km away from an altitude of 5,000 m. It also features both line-of-sight and satellite navigation and control systems.

The company also displayed what appeared to be a new version of the BZK-005 featuring a system mounted under the UAV's nose that could be electronic support measures (ESM), a radar, or a communication relay.

First revealed in a poster at the Airshow China 2004, the BZK-005 is believed to be in service with units of the People’s Liberation Army Navy Air Force (PLANAF) as well as with a special group subordinate to the Joint Staff Department of the Central Military Commission.China's Beihang Unmanned Aircraft System Technology displayed on 13 November what appeared to be a new variant of the BZK-005 UAV. (Via mil.huanqiu.com)

In early April 2016 the BZK-005 was spotted on Woody Island in the South China Sea, and in September 2013 Japan Air Self-Defense Force F-15J aircraft intercepted a BZK-005 flying near the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands.

Beihang Unmanned Aircraft System Technology is an offshoot of the Beijing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics (BUAA), which originally developed the BZK-005 together with the Harbin Aircraft Industry Group.


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## fatman17

Chinas Beihang Unmanned Aircraft System Technology unveiled Monday , November 13, its new TYW-1 strike-capable UAV. With a wingspan of 18m, the TYW-1 drone features the same outward-canted stabiliser design as seen on the BZK-005 multirole medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) UAV (believed to be in use with the People’s Liberation Army), and is approximately 9.85 m-long and 2.5 m-high. Featuring an electro-optical system that can reportedly read a licence plate 50 km away from an altitude of 5,000 m, it also can carry a a 370 kg payload, features four underwing pylons, has a ceiling of 7.5 km, an endurance of 40 hours, and can reach a top speed of 200 km/h. Also displayed was an upgraded BZK-005 complete with a system mounted under the UAV’s nose that could be electronic support measures (ESM), a radar, or a communication relay.

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## Riz

fatman17 said:


> Chinas Beihang Unmanned Aircraft System Technology unveiled Monday , November 13, its new TYW-1 strike-capable UAV. With a wingspan of 18m, the TYW-1 drone features the same outward-canted stabiliser design as seen on the BZK-005 multirole medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) UAV (believed to be in use with the People’s Liberation Army), and is approximately 9.85 m-long and 2.5 m-high. Featuring an electro-optical system that can reportedly read a licence plate 50 km away from an altitude of 5,000 m, it also can carry a a 370 kg payload, features four underwing pylons, has a ceiling of 7.5 km, an endurance of 40 hours, and can reach a top speed of 200 km/h. Also displayed was an upgraded BZK-005 complete with a system mounted under the UAV’s nose that could be electronic support measures (ESM), a radar, or a communication relay.


What is the relation of this news to Pak drone development thread?


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## fatman17

Riz said:


> What is the relation of this news to Pak drone development thread?


Pakistan and China collaboration in this area please

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## Sucha Kuggu

I dont know how practical this is? but home made UAV is worth using instead of t129s, even it is downed u r learning something out of it and moving towards self reliance and skill building and without putting you best men at risk.

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## fatman17

Sucha Kuggu said:


> I dont know how practical this is? but home made UAV is worth using instead of t129s, even it is downed u r learning something out of it and moving towards self reliance and skill building and without putting you best men at risk.


When it comes to UAV ops we are in the learning stage. We've lost 2 falco and a few others. There has been only one instance of using a armed UAV against militants albeit successfully.


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## Sucha Kuggu

fatman17 said:


> When it comes to UAV ops we are in the learning stage. We've lost 2 falco and a few others. There has been only one instance of using a armed UAV against militants albeit successfully.



Different GPS like Russian, Chines, European do they share information with each other?


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## fatman17

B6 Drone

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## mrrehan

To me the best drone "conventional" design that could be extended to suite Pakistan needs is "EADS Talarion"

The EADS Talarion is a Medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE UAV), designed by EADS , for aerial reconnaissance, military intelligence, and aerial surveillance. Avionics will be built by Saab. In May 2011, a group of Turkish suppliers, led by Turkish Aerospace Industries, joined the project by signing a (MoU) with EADS Cassidian for the Talarion UAV programme. The Talarion UAV mockup was unveiled by EADS at the 2009 Paris Airshow as a European alternative to the American Global Hawk system.

Characteristics
=============================
Length: 32.81 ft in
Wingspan: 91.86 ft in
Height: 11.32 ft in
Empty weight: 3,200 kg
Gross weight: 10,000 kg

Maximum speed: 630 km/h
Range: 16,000 km
Service ceiling: 49,213 ft


Payloads are held in a belly bay. Wings are straight appendages and mid-mounted along the sides of the fuselage. The powerplant is embedded at the rear of the fuselage and aspirated through a top-mounted intake ahead, and at the base of, the single vertical tail fin. There are a pair of low-mounted horizontal tailplanes at the rear. The Talarion would be powered by a turbofan engine of unknown make and model, though an installation providing the needed thrust at the operating altitudes required. Reports indicate that the Talarion might, indeed, showcase two engines instead of one as in the Global Hawk (a Rolls-Royce branded turbofan engine). Its wingspan is a reported 92 feet.

The Talarion would remain unarmed (as with the Global Hawk) and serve in the intelligence-gathering role - a vital service in any war.

As it stands, the program has not evolved as expected, largely due to a lack of interest even amongst European powers. The Talarion may still compete in several upcoming UAV programs but its future remains in doubt - particularly with the glut of UAVs arriving to market in the coming years.

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## fatman17

Just learned something very interesting and also credible, CH-4 UAV did the target recon and designating job for the USAF F-15E in a Middle East country. https://t.co/TwM2qkk9Aq

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Hassan Guy



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## Maxpane

Informative thread


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## HRK

Hassan Guy said:


>


any detail ....??
source of the pic ... ??

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## Cornered Tiger

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 456894
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 456895
> 
> 
> View attachment 456896
> 
> 
> View attachment 456897
> 
> 
> View attachment 456898



Details, please? Thanks.


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## Sulman Badshah

PAC Tender for DATA LINK Items for MALE UAV (in development)

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## JamD

Sulman Badshah said:


> PAC Tender for DATA LINK Items for MALE UAV (in development)
> 
> View attachment 554197


Those look like items for a very small prototype at best.


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## Sulman Badshah

JamD said:


> Those look like items for a very small prototype at best.


MALE UAV will be bigger than anything we currently have

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## JamD

Sulman Badshah said:


> MALE UAV will be bigger than anything we currently have


I should have been clearer, my apologies. What I meant was that those parts are not destined for a MALE UAV. For starters the data-link will not be 2.4 GHz (which is very short range). I believe these are parts for a small aircraft they are building just to get started or something.


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## Sulman Badshah

JamD said:


> I should have been clearer, my apologies. What I meant was that those parts are not destined for a MALE UAV. For starters the data-link will not be 2.4 GHz (which is very short range). I believe these are parts for a small aircraft they are building just to get started or something.


Complete tender is of 16 pages ... I've share one 

yes they are taking start from somewhere


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## JamD

Sulman Badshah said:


> Complete tender is of 16 pages ... I've share one
> 
> yes they are taking start from somewhere


Can you share the link please? I would like to go through it.


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## Sulman Badshah

JamD said:


> Can you share the link please? I would like to go through it.


Its on PAC website ... I recheck whole tender .. these are main spec


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## fatman17

Air Platforms
*Falco Xplorer UAV makes maiden flight*
*Gareth Jennings, London* - Jane's International Defence Review
20 January 2020







The Falco Xplorer MALE UAV made its maiden flight on 15 January. Source: Leonardo
Leonardo flew its Falco Xplorer unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) for the first time on 15 January, the company announced.

The approximately one-hour flight saw the medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) UAV depart Trapani Air Force Base on Sicily before returning to the same location.

As noted by Leonardo, the Falco Xplorer, which combines endurance of over 24 hours, a maximum payload of 350 kg, and a service ceiling of 30,000 ft, will now embark on a series of flight tests to assess the aircraft’s full range of capabilities including its integrated sensor system.

Revealed at the Paris Air Show in June 2019, the Falco Xplorer is 9 m long, has a wingspan of 18.5 m, and is powered by a single Rotax engine. It utilises an evolution of the ground control system used on the earlier iterations of the Falco family, while the baseline sensor fit comprises a Gabbiano T-80UL multimode synthetic aperture radar that can undertake mapping and ground moving target indication, as well as a LEOSS gyro-stabilised electro-optic turret and a SAGE signals intelligence (SIGINT) suite. While weapons could be integrated, Leonardo has stated that this is not currently planned for the platform.

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## Syed1.

fatman17 said:


> Air Platforms
> *Falco Xplorer UAV makes maiden flight*
> *Gareth Jennings, London* - Jane's International Defence Review
> 20 January 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Falco Xplorer MALE UAV made its maiden flight on 15 January. Source: Leonardo
> Leonardo flew its Falco Xplorer unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) for the first time on 15 January, the company announced.
> 
> The approximately one-hour flight saw the medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) UAV depart Trapani Air Force Base on Sicily before returning to the same location.
> 
> As noted by Leonardo, the Falco Xplorer, which combines endurance of over 24 hours, a maximum payload of 350 kg, and a service ceiling of 30,000 ft, will now embark on a series of flight tests to assess the aircraft’s full range of capabilities including its integrated sensor system.
> 
> Revealed at the Paris Air Show in June 2019, the Falco Xplorer is 9 m long, has a wingspan of 18.5 m, and is powered by a single Rotax engine. It utilises an evolution of the ground control system used on the earlier iterations of the Falco family, while the baseline sensor fit comprises a Gabbiano T-80UL multimode synthetic aperture radar that can undertake mapping and ground moving target indication, as well as a LEOSS gyro-stabilised electro-optic turret and a SAGE signals intelligence (SIGINT) suite. While weapons could be integrated, Leonardo has stated that this is not currently planned for the platform.




Sir this thread is for Pakistan's indigenous drone development

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## fatman17

Syed1. said:


> Sir this thread is for Pakistan's indigenous drone development


I am aware, but since Pakistan operates Falco uavs, this type certainly would be of interest to Pakistan. Thanks.

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## Maxpane

any update of Pakistani UAV. i mean ex chief was saying it wiuld be ready next year but still there is no news

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## fatman17

Is Burraq a copy of the Falco UAV?


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## Incog_nito

fatman17 said:


> Is Burraq a copy of the Falco UAV?
> View attachment 639510
> View attachment 639511
> View attachment 639512
> View attachment 639513


No. It's a license-produced version of the Chinese CH-3 Armed Drone.

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## fatman17

Looks very similar to the falco


Incog_nito said:


> No. It's a license-produced version of the Chinese CH-3 Armed Drone.

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## fatman17

China, Pakistan signed a deal to build 48 strike-capable Wing Loong II drones (2018)

Wing Loong II unmanned aerial vehicles built by Chengdu Aircraft Corp (CAC), a unit of Aviation Industry Corp of China (AVIC), and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Karma. https://t.co/P7ZBO677cD

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## Pandora

fatman17 said:


> China, Pakistan signed a deal to build 48 strike-capable Wing Loong II drones (2018)
> 
> Wing Loong II unmanned aerial vehicles built by Chengdu Aircraft Corp (CAC), a unit of Aviation Industry Corp of China (AVIC), and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Karma. https://t.co/P7ZBO677cD
> View attachment 646578
> View attachment 646579



Didnt Pakistan decide to go for an in house product after Wing Loong failed to meet required parameters? We lost one during testing and evaluation phase so Pakistan wasn't satisfied with it. I think our in house wing loong based UCAV will include western subsystems and engine to meet requirements.

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## fatman17

Actually l also thought as much but wanted some confirmation. So what is the in house version called Burraq perhaps


Pandora said:


> Didnt Pakistan decide to go for an in house product after Wing Loong failed to meet required parameters? We lost one during testing and evaluation phase so Pakistan wasn't satisfied with it. I think our in house wing loong based UCAV will include western subsystems and engine to meet requirements.


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## Pandora

fatman17 said:


> Actually l also thought as much but wanted some confirmation. So what is the in house version called Burraq perhaps



I didnt see any designation for new MALE UCAV under development. Burraq was older version based on CH3 with some input from falco. Apart from 3D renderings there isnt much info available on MALE UCAV.

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## JamD

Falco, Burraq, and Shahpar in one picture for the first time (at PAF Murid):

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## Pandora

JamD said:


> Falco, Burraq, and Shahpar in one picture for the first time (at PAF Murid):
> View attachment 646697



Burraq clearly looks like a mated design between Falco and Shahpar removing all doubt that it was an in house activity not just a design transfer from china. Although shahpar has all the characteristics of CH3.


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## JamD

Pandora said:


> Burraq clearly looks like a mated design between Falco and Shahpar.


You're right it kind of does.

The Burraq is a licensed copy of the CH-3. PAC produces the Falco under license. The only indigenous (indigenously designed) UAV in this picture is on the extreme right. A UAV we should be proud of.

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## Gentelman

Recent success of Turkish UAVs must have caught PAFs interest..... 
I hope something good do come out from that.


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## Pandora

JamD said:


> You're right it kind of does.
> 
> The Burraq is a licensed copy of the CH-3. PAC produces the Falco under license. The only indigenous UAV in this picture is on the extreme right. A UAV we should be proud of.



That one is falco i think bcz burraq as seen in its videos has horns so one in the center is most probably Buraq. One on the left is Shahpar.


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## JamD

Pandora said:


> That one is falco i think bcz burraq as seen in its videos has horns so one in the center is most probably Buraq. One on the left is either CH3 or Shahpar.


Sorry if my post was confusing. Left to right in the picture: Falco, Burraq (CH-3) , Shahpar (edited original picture).


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## Pandora

JamD said:


> Sorry if my post was confusing. Left to right in the picture: Falco, Burraq (CH-3) , Shahpar:
> View attachment 646708



yup thats correct

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## JamD

Burraq or Shahpar at Murid:

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## Path-Finder

JamD said:


> Falco, Burraq, and Shahpar in one picture for the first time (at PAF Murid):
> View attachment 646716


The 3 seem to be in the same class! in terms of capabilities and flight characteristics. might be unwise to have 3 in the same class unless each has purpose.

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## JamD

Path-Finder said:


> The 3 seem to be in the same class! in terms of capabilities and flight characteristics. might be unwise to have 3 in the same class unless each has purpose.


Agreed. I'm just glad the local guy still exists in the presence of the imported designs.

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## Path-Finder

This Falco Xplorer has Pakistan written all over it!

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## Riz

JamD said:


> Agreed. I'm just glad the local guy still exists in the presence of the imported designs.


There is one bigger size UCAV at mureed airbase


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## JamD

Riz said:


> There is one bigger size UCAV at mureed airbase


I don't know anything about that.

Busy day:

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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## jupiter2007

Path-Finder said:


> This Falco Xplorer has Pakistan written all over it!



We need license production of these for Afghanistan border.


----------



## S A L M A N.

JamD said:


> Falco, Burraq, and Shahpar in one picture for the first time (at PAF Murid):
> View attachment 646716



Don't see any weapons pylons on the Burraq. This looks like the recon/ISR variant that GIDS put up for show at IDEAS 2018. I remember examing the under-wing areas of the Burraq on display there. There were no weapon pylons (obviously) but brackets/mounting areas were present and clearly defined.

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## JamD

S A L M A N. said:


> Don't see any weapons pylons on the Burraq. This looks like the recon/ISR variant that GIDS put up for show at IDEAS 2018. I remember examing the under-wing areas of the Burraq on display there. There were no weapon pylons (obviously) but brackets/mounting areas were present and clearly defined.


Yes. I have some theories on this. Obviously just speculation:
1. PA uses the armed version, while PAF uses the ISR version
2. GIDS (or whatever) is allowed to export (if they can get customers) the ISR version and NOT the armed version (as seen by the hurried blacking out of the missile on the poster at IDEAS 2018).


----------



## jupiter2007

We should be working on something like this....


----------



## _NOBODY_

jupiter2007 said:


> We need license production of these for Afghanistan border.


Why buy that when we already operate wing loong 2?


----------



## S A L M A N.

JamD said:


> Yes. I have some theories on this. Obviously just speculation:
> 1. PA uses the armed version, while PAF uses the ISR version
> 2. GIDS (or whatever) is allowed to export (if they can get customers) the ISR version and NOT the armed version (as seen by the hurried blacking out of the missile on the poster at IDEAS 2018).



That is most likely the case.
But IMO, all these hopes and efforts for export appear to be just a futile exercise. Just some 'movement' for the sake of appearing to be doing something - to mask the fact that we are terribly uncompetitive as far as the exports of such systems are concerned. And it is not due to the technical merits of the product. It is the marketing efforts that lack spirit and effectiveness.


----------



## jupiter2007

ghazi52 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/



Very good development


_NOBODY_ said:


> Why buy that when we already operate wing loong 2?



Chinese stuff is not cheap and they don't sell us their latest technology. If we build a good relationship with Italian firms, we might be able to get hightech from them without getting sanction from USA.

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## JamD

S A L M A N. said:


> That is most likely the case.
> But IMO, all these hopes and efforts for export appear to be just a futile exercise. Just some 'movement' for the sake of appearing to be doing something - to mask the fact that we are terribly uncompetitive as far as the exports of such systems are concerned. And it is not due to the technical merits of the product. It is the marketing efforts that lack spirit and effectiveness.


Not sure which business genius thought we could sell an unarmed CH-3 in a market where China is selling the armed version. What's the unique selling point here?

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## S A L M A N.

JamD said:


> Not sure which business genius thought we could sell an unarmed CH-3 in a market where China is selling the armed version. What's the unique selling point here?



YES. YES. EXACTLY. *elated*

I just wish I could share some anecdotes about the actual decision-making process that goes into such genius business ideas. Have some genuine horror stories. But alas, national secorty. Don't want a black Vigo at my door.


----------



## JamD

S A L M A N. said:


> YES. YES. EXACTLY. *elated*
> 
> I just wish I could share some anecdotes about the actual decision-making process that goes into such genius business ideas. Have some genuine horror stories. But alas, national secorty. Don't want a black Vigo at my door.







__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## Zarvan

Path-Finder said:


> This Falco Xplorer has Pakistan written all over it!



Not armed so how you reached that conclusion.

@Tipu7 @Sulman Badshah


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## Path-Finder

Zarvan said:


> Not armed so how you reached that conclusion.
> 
> @Tipu7 @Sulman Badshah


Muffakir, Its ITAR free! that means the yanks can't stop its sale as it has NO yankee components in it! Just with the smaller falco Pakistan has tried to add weapons to it. Maybe Pakistan can build it in Pakistan like the smaller Falco and then later add weapons to it as well. 

But the main thing is that its ITAR free!

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## _NOBODY_

jupiter2007 said:


> Chinese stuff is not cheap and they don't sell us their latest technology. If we build a good relationship with Italian firms, we might be able to get hightech from them without getting sanction from USA.


Leonardo Falco Xplorer is inferior to Wing Loong 2 in every way. Even if the Chinese don't offer us their latest drones but what they do offer us is much better than this.


----------



## S A L M A N.

JamD said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


Yikes. May have to go in hiding.


----------



## Zarvan

Path-Finder said:


> Muffakir, Its ITAR free! that means the yanks can't stop its sale as it has NO yankee components in it! Just with the smaller falco Pakistan has tried to add weapons to it. Maybe Pakistan can build it in Pakistan like the smaller Falco and then later add weapons to it as well.
> 
> But the main thing is that its ITAR free!


Well if Italy guarantees that it won't have issue with us Arming it than hell yeah


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## jupiter2007

_NOBODY_ said:


> Leonardo Falco Xplorer is inferior to Wing Loong 2 in every way. Even if the Chinese don't offer us their latest drones but what they do offer us is much better than this.



We are only buying Chinese products because of it's availability, lack of other options and we won't get sanctions from uncle SAM. We need to diversify and get the technology from Turkey and EU countries.


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## _NOBODY_

jupiter2007 said:


> We are only buying Chinese products because of it's availability, lack of other options and we won't get sanctions from uncle SAM. We need to diversify and get the technology from Turkey and EU countries.


I have no objections with that as along those countries can offer drones comparable to the drones that Chinese are offering. This Leonardo Falco Xplorer is inferior to Wing Loong II. Wing loong II can carry a payload of up to 400 kg compared to > 250 Kg of Xplorer.


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## Riz

Guess what type of UAV is this???

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## JamD

Riz said:


> Guess what type of UAV is this???
> 
> View attachment 649768


Based on the three pixels of UAV I would guess Falco lol.

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## Riz

JamD said:


> Based on the three pixels of UAV I would guess Falco lol.


Nope its not falco sir, i saw these birds flying togather, this is bigger then falco and Burraq both

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## JamD

Riz said:


> Nope its not falco sir, i saw these birds flying togather, this is bigger then falco and Burraq both


Nice. Silhouette looked like Falco. Maybe we're seeing an some evolution of the Uqaab instead of the Shahpar. Time will tell. My "friends" don't talk to me much with me being in the US lol.

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## ghazi52

#MadeInPakistan drones to benefit agriculture and Law Enforcement Agency, says Chaudhry

After successfully developing ventilators, the Made in Pakistan concept has made the country capable of successfully manufacturing drones as well.

The newly developed drones will not only be used in the agricultural sector but for patrolling and monitoring as well informed Federal Minister for Science and Technology Chaudhry Fawad Hussain, during his visit to the production unit of ABM SATUMA, a drones-manufacturing company.

There is a lot of scope for drones in the agricultural sector whether it is for seeding, monitoring or spraying said Chaudhry. “All the fundamentals of agricultural have now been taken over by drones, so it was necessary for Pakistan to manufacture these drones, and this will change farming in Pakistan,” he said.

Another benefit of this technology is for law enforcement agencies said Chaudhry, and revealed that he is in talks with the motorway authority and relevant ministries in this matter.









“We will shift the motorway surveillance to drones, this will cut a lot of costs as drones are now capable to stay on the air for longer periods, and can monitor the areas. We will also want to provide these drones to the Islamabad police.”

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## DESERT FIGHTER

JamD said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


Yaar can anybody help me with this music?

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## Syed1.

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yaar can anybody help me with this music?







That tune starts at 0:46. Crappy song otherwise.

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## Tamiyah

Riz said:


> Nope its not falco sir, i saw these birds flying togather, this is bigger then falco and Burraq both


Have you found something on this? Kuch mila?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Syed1. said:


> That tune starts at 0:46. Crappy song otherwise.



A baloch 4X4 page created this video and i loved the music

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## Riz

Tamiyah said:


> Have you found something on this? Kuch mila?


Not yet sir

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## Metal 0-1

Something cooking at PAF Base Murid....

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## Hassan Guy

Metal 0-1 said:


> Something cooking at PAF Base Murid....
> View attachment 658118
> 
> 
> View attachment 658121

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## Metal 0-1

Will you mind to shed somelight....

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## Tamiyah

Metal 0-1 said:


> Something cooking at PAF Base Murid....
> View attachment 658118
> 
> 
> View attachment 658121


First of all the image resolution isn't much clear. 
Second how old is this image?
Third that UAV looks like our already inducted drones.


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## Metal 0-1

Tamiyah said:


> First of all the image resolution isn't much clear.
> Second how old is this image?
> Third that UAV looks like our already inducted drones.



Image is new..


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## Tamiyah

That UAV parked near the shed looks like Falco to me. Idk about others.


Metal 0-1 said:


> Image is new..


----------



## JamD

Metal 0-1 said:


> Something cooking at PAF Base Murid....
> View attachment 658118
> 
> 
> View attachment 658121


I believe that is just the Falco.

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## HRK

can anyone tell about the mini drone which appear using 2 micro turbojet engine shown below











on second look I think these are electric motor driven enclosed propellers ...... ???


----------



## Path-Finder

HRK said:


> can anyone tell about the mini drone which appear using 2 micro turbojet engine shown below
> View attachment 698967
> View attachment 698968
> View attachment 698969


well a drone policy is being sought for use in farming and law enforcement. but why is there a RC type A10 is puzzling maybe it will be used to squatter bugs in the farming fields. brrrrt bugs

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## JamD

HRK said:


> can anyone tell about the mini drone which appear using 2 micro turbojet engine shown below
> View attachment 698967
> View attachment 698968
> View attachment 698969
> 
> 
> on second look I think these are electric motor driven enclosed propellers ...... ???


Well that's just an electric ducted fan (EDF) powered R/C A-10 model. Something like this:


https://www.amazon.com/flite-Airplane-Thunderbolt-Transmitter-Included/dp/B085QL5BJN



I think they just wanted something nice and jahaz-looking to put in front of IK lol.

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## Riz

HRK said:


> can anyone tell about the mini drone which appear using 2 micro turbojet engine shown below
> View attachment 698967
> View attachment 698968
> View attachment 698969
> 
> 
> on second look I think these are electric motor driven enclosed propellers ...... ???


Gareeb da A-10

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## Vapnope

In 2018 there was a news that Pakistan is buying wing loong II from China.

Then there was a news of 4 armed drone acquired by PA to protect CPEC.

Then someone said Navy is looking to buy CH-4.

Anyone can tell whatever happened to these drones?


----------



## Zarvan

Vapnope said:


> In 2018 there was a news that Pakistan is buying wing loong II from China.
> 
> Then there was a news of 4 armed drone acquired by PA to protect CPEC.
> 
> Then someone said Navy is looking to buy CH-4.
> 
> Anyone can tell whatever happened to these drones?


Pakistan has habit of quietly induct new weapons form Russia and China and not announcing them for months and sometime years.

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## Aesterix

This is from twitter. 
Chinese CH-4 spotted at Bahawalpur airbase. 4x in number.


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## Moon

Does anyone in the country build tethered drones using cheap off the shelf parts? Like these: https://elistair.com/
24 hour flight time, colour and FLIR cameras, 330 feet operation height, can peer at a distance of 10km.
Imagine if every MRAP is equipped with something like this but cheaper. 
It could be used as a "kite" and be pulled along the convoy, scouting for threats.
It could also have the ability to be "cut loose" and survey an area on it's own battery power.
Or a plexus of them across checkposts all attached to a central command aided by AI, to monitor terrorists?.
Or be used to monitor a battlespace from a distance.
Weeeelll?
Also it's something a university graduate could open as a startup... *Wink* *wink*

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## Moon

I almost forgot.
Has any branch of service taken a liking to HAPS? Could do miracles for ISR and communications.....


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## Bilal.

Moon said:


> I almost forgot.
> Has any branch of service taken a liking to HAPS? Could do miracles for ISR and communications.....


Integrated Dynamics is working on it. 2 models Solaris and Stratos:





Solaris – INTEGRATED DYNAMICS







idaerospace.com

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## Moon

Bilal. said:


> Integrated Dynamics is working on it. 2 models Solaris and Stratos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Solaris – INTEGRATED DYNAMICS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idaerospace.com


I know of these, but not sure if anyone in the top-brass is keen on developing them further.
These can be a game changer when it comes it Persistent Surveillance. And are dirt cheap.

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## JamD

Bilal. said:


> Integrated Dynamics is working on it. 2 models Solaris and Stratos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Solaris – INTEGRATED DYNAMICS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idaerospace.com


This is certainly a step in the right direction. The Solaris is very obviously a technology demonstrator with it's small size. Perhaps the mentioned stratos is proposed to be a full-scale HAPS. Our brass should certainly look towards supporting this program (and not just saying oh AWC can make this and tell it to make it lol).

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## Deltadart

Moon said:


> Does anyone in the country build tethered drones using cheap off the shelf parts? Like these: https://elistair.com/
> 24 hour flight time, colour and FLIR cameras, 330 feet operation height, can peer at a distance of 10km.
> Imagine if every MRAP is equipped with something like this but cheaper.
> It could be used as a "kite" and be pulled along the convoy, scouting for threats.
> It could also have the ability to be "cut loose" and survey an area on it's own battery power.
> Or a plexus of them across checkposts all attached to a central command aided by AI, to monitor terrorists?.
> Or be used to monitor a battlespace from a distance.
> Weeeelll?
> Also it's something a university graduate could open as a startup... *Wink* *wink*


Nothing would save our troops in convoys, as long as they are in their Toyota pick ups, the MRAPs of Pakistani forces. Send all the drones you want.


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## Moon

Deltadart said:


> Nothing would save our troops in convoys, as long as they are in their Toyota MRAP pick ups. Send all the drones you want.


You mean Toyota pickups, not MRAPs....
We need MRAPs, desperately.


----------



## Deltadart

Moon said:


> You mean Toyota pickups, not MRAPs....
> We need MRAPs, desperately.


No I meant what I wrote, but I rephrased it for clarity now.
I wrote it sarcastically though.


----------



## Moon

Deltadart said:


> No I meant what I wrote, but I rephrased it for clarity now.
> I wrote it sarcastically though.


I think this phase of Counterterrorism (at least the military part of it) needs to be a multi pronged approach. Drones, MRAPs, VMMDs and other surveillance equipment.
You need all of these together.


----------



## Deltadart

Moon said:


> I think this phase of Counterterrorism (at least the military part of it) needs to be a multi pronged approach. Drones, MRAPs, VMMDs and other surveillance equipment.
> You need all of these together.


Unfortunately, those at the helm ( civilians+ military) don't give a damn about the safety of our troops, except lip service.

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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446161354025484292

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446144588834648068

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446161354025484292
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446144588834648068


Excellent news indeed.Hope it will pass all trials.


----------



## HRK

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446161354025484292
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446144588834648068


In which country ....??

Any idea .... ???


----------



## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

HRK said:


> In which country ....??
> 
> Any idea .... ???


For Pakistan....  


But we will have to read full article to know this.

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## khail007

HRK said:


> In which country ....??
> 
> Any idea .... ???



Sir G, it seems to be:
a city in the South Moravian Region of the Czech Republic.

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## JamD

Serial number SHPII-19-101
Built in 2019, first airframe of first "block/batch"






this is consistent with other SHP serials:

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## HRK

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> For Pakistan....


In Pakistan its operational as shown in 23rd March, 2021 Military Parade.


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## JamD

HRK said:


> In Pakistan its operational as shown in 23rd March, 2021 Military Parade.


The key word may be "armed"

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## HRK

JamD said:


> The key word may be "armed"


could be ....

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## Path-Finder

HRK said:


> In which country ....??
> 
> Any idea .... ???


Pakistan?

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

JamD said:


> The key word may be "armed"



#IDET 2021 is also key word 

Also also report says its trials are undergone by _GIDS_.

Some ......good news ....may be for GIDS ...


----------



## JamD

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> #IDET 2021 is also key word
> 
> Also also report says its trials are undergone by _GIDS_.
> 
> Some ......good news ....may be for GIDS ...


I would be very surprised if we actually have a potential export customer lined up. It's next to impossible to compete with China and Turkey in this market.

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

JamD said:


> I would be very surprised if we actually have a potential export customer lined up. It's next to impossible to compete with China and Turkey in this market.



@JamD 
Another aspect to think about:

AWC was not interested to use barq missile on Shahpar 2,so has AWC developed its own laser guided missile or imported,or is compelled to use barq?
It remains to be seen.


----------



## JamD

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> @JamD
> Another aspect to think about:
> 
> AWC was not interested to use barq missile on Shahpar 2,so has AWC developed its own laser guided missile or imported,or is compelled to use barq?
> It remains to be seen.



All I know:


JamD said:


> Last I heard (2015) it was Barq BUT there was the intention to reverse engineer and locally manufacture a version. Yes, I did NOT say _licensed _production lol.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

JamD said:


> I would be very surprised if we actually have a potential export customer lined up. *It's next to impossible to compete with China and Turkey in this market*.


It's funny actually because there's a risk those two could keep the US out of key drone markets. E.g., Poland -- i.e., a NATO power -- is seriously studying Turkish drones, and I can see East Asia and Southeast Asia following suit as the Turks roll out more advanced systems.

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## ghazi52

Presenting the #Zephyr, Unmanned Aerial Vehicle #UAV, developed and design by Team #NUST Airworks, from Pakistan Navy Engineering College #PNEC #NUST. 

The team was runner-up at #IMeche UAS Challenge, UK in 2021.
#NUSTxKarachi2021

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## Agha Sher

JamD said:


> Serial number SHPII-19-101
> Built in 2019, first airframe of first "block/batch"
> View attachment 782825
> 
> 
> this is consistent with other SHP serials:
> 
> View attachment 782826



SHP II seems to have a really nice design. Will it be bigger than SPH I in terms of size? Hope it sees export success as well!


----------



## JamD

Agha Sher said:


> SHP II seems to have a really nice design. Will it be bigger than SPH I in terms of size? Hope it sees export success as well!


It is bigger yes. To be an export success maybe we need to offer Turkish quality and after sales support at Chinese prices at the very least. Also it is quite easy for whoever supplies our engines to kill any deal if they don't approve of it.

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## Agha Sher

JamD said:


> It is bigger yes. To be an export success maybe we need to offer Turkish quality and after sales support at Chinese prices at the very least. Also it is quite easy for whoever supplies our engines to kill any deal if they don't approve of it.



Do you know which engine it will use?


----------



## JamD

Agha Sher said:


> Do you know which engine it will use?


Unfortunately I don't.


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

Agha Sher said:


> Will it be bigger than SPH I in terms of size?


Yes

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## Proud 2 Be a Pakistani

*SHAHPAR-II with Super Looks Finally.*







*SHAPAR2 COMBAT VERSION SPECS;*

#SHAHPAR_II Armed Drone Specs;
Max Speed: 120 Knots
Sat Com: Yes
Endurance: 7 Hours
Service Ceiling: 18,000
Feet Roles: COMINT/ELINT/SAR/COMBAT
WEAPON PAYLOAD: 2-ATGM of 60KG Each Retractable Landing Gear.

Source;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465219690133962752

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

Proud 2 Be a Pakistani said:


> Service Ceiling: 18,000


This is wrong
Its service ceiling is 20000 feet


----------



## Proud 2 Be a Pakistani

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> This is wrong
> Its service ceiling is 20000 feet



Rco. Version Service Ceiling is 20K Armed having 18K.


----------



## Sulman Badshah



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## Proud 2 Be a Pakistani

*Here are the Combat Version Specs;
@Sulman Badshah *

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

Proud 2 Be a Pakistani said:


> *Here are the Combat Version Specs;*
> View attachment 797503


Only 7hours endurance when armed 🥺


----------



## Proud 2 Be a Pakistani

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Only 7hours endurance when armed 🥺


Yeah sad but true.


----------



## Path-Finder

can someone make sense of this please??


----------



## xbat

This guy makes little engines for paramotors, when pak demanded 2 cyl 36 hp engine for its target drones, he provided engine and propellers

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## farooqbhai007

and fwo using vtol drones (imported drone atmos marlyn) for civilian infra survey purposes

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## Defense785

UQAB-NG Tactical UAV System 

Video Link:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580514199100264449


----------



## Kompromat

Sulman Badshah said:


> View attachment 797500
> 
> 
> View attachment 797501



What does this card look like a Walima invite?


----------



## Trango Towers

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Only 7hours endurance when armed 🥺


That's still very significant. If the increased the wing area the endurance would increase as well. Greater lift greater fuel capacity. But 7 hours is excellent endurance.
What advantages do get from buying the Turkish drones then?


----------



## farooqbhai007

Wtf is this thing.




If this was PAC's MALE UAV I am glad they killed this program for good. Doesn't even have much weight.

@JamD @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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## Sifar zero

farooqbhai007 said:


> Wtf is this thing.
> View attachment 895924
> 
> If this was PAC's MALE UAV I am glad they killed this program for good. Doesn't even have much weight.
> 
> @JamD @Bilal Khan (Quwa)


Looks like a small model like India's Ghatak.


----------



## JamD

farooqbhai007 said:


> Wtf is this thing.
> View attachment 895924
> 
> If this was PAC's MALE UAV I am glad they killed this program for good. Doesn't even have much weight.
> 
> @JamD @Bilal Khan (Quwa)


I think this is some small version. I've seen the actual thing. It's that big thing we saw in the pictures. A disappointing system nonetheless.

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## Sifar zero

JamD said:


> I think this is some small version. I've seen the actual thing. It's that big thing we saw in the pictures. A disappointing system nonetheless.


Why is it disappointing???

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## JamD

Sifar zero said:


> Why is it disappointing???


for starters the program is dead. It was overweight, Frankenstein of a thing, that was not going to compete with anything available on the market. It would underperform against every competitor.

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## Sifar zero

What is this??
Is it a loitering munition??
@farooqbhai007


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## farooqbhai007

Sifar zero said:


> View attachment 896784
> 
> What is this??
> Is it a loitering munition??
> @farooqbhai007


Will check





Micro loitering munition showcased by PA RDE jointly developed with Integrated dynamics.

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## Dr. Strangelove

farooqbhai007 said:


> Will check
> 
> View attachment 896918
> 
> Micro loitering munition showcased by PA RDE jointly developed with Integrated dynamics.


Any Details on this or any other Loitering Munitions?


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

farooqbhai007 said:


> Will check
> 
> View attachment 896918
> 
> Micro loitering munition showcased by PA RDE jointly developed with Integrated dynamics.


IMO a neat application of this could be a Sensor-Fuzed Weapon-style system.

Basically, preprogram these loitering sub-munitions with data on enemy ground-based vehicles. Then, take a JSOW-style dispenser (e.g., the Chinese GB500) and then load it with several dozen of these loitering (sub)munitions. Next, make the JSOW work in a where it doesn't just dump all the submunitions in one go. Rather, it flies like a drone around the area (maybe remote-operated) and sprinkles these submunitions over enemy tanks, artillery, positions, etc. You basically get something that can fulfill the role of a Sensor-Fuzed Weapon. 

@SQ8 @JamD

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## SQ8

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IMO a neat application of this could be a Sensor-Fuzed Weapon-style system.
> 
> Basically, preprogram these loitering sub-munitions with data on enemy ground-based vehicles. Then, take a JSOW-style dispenser (e.g., the Chinese GB500) and then load it with several dozen of these loitering (sub)munitions. Next, make the JSOW work in a where it doesn't just dump all the submunitions in one go. Rather, it flies like a drone around the area (maybe remote-operated) and sprinkles these submunitions over enemy tanks, artillery, positions, etc. You basically get something that can fulfill the role of a Sensor-Fuzed Weapon.
> 
> @SQ8 @JamD


Similar to what the LOCPOD was supposed to do


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## sparten

Integrated Dynamic have updated their website after quite a while (post IDEAS 2022). 
Some of the stuff they are showing is quite impressive, especially the HALE. The Solaris and Stratos HALE drones have a celling of 6KM and 22 KM (officially). The latter translate to a horizon of almost 600km. I have read that on 27 Feb PAF was watching Srinagar base in real time and I wonder if this UAV wasn't responsible. 






MILITARY UAV SYSTEMS – INTEGRATED DYNAMICS







idaerospace.com





There are also some Loitering munition (one of which looks like a Flying Dildo) and our own much more capable version of Shahed (running the numbers it has a range of almost 2000 km).





LOITERING MUNITIONS – INTEGRATED DYNAMICS







idaerospace.com





Why has this been under wraps for so long and wonder what other stuff is still classified. 

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @blain2 @JamD (since I need my hopes dashed and heartbroken) @SQ8 (ditto)

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## CivilianSupremacy

To me, this drone has a lot of utility & applications. The VTOL drones like quadcopters / hexacopters have very limited range / flight time as they have no ability to glide. 

This one is VTOL and can glide hence it will have greator range / flight time. Naval platforms can also accommodate this.

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## That Guy

Sifar zero said:


> Why is it disappointing???


Apparently it was super heavy and didn't have a huge payload capacity, at least from what I've been told.

No idea if it's true or not. Heard the project is pretty much dead in favor of Shahpar 2 and local manufacturing of Turkish and Chinese drones.



sparten said:


> Integrated Dynamic have updated their website after quite a while (post IDEAS 2022).
> Some of the stuff they are showing is quite impressive, especially the HALE. The Solaris and Stratos HALE drones have a celling of 6KM and 22 KM (officially). The latter translate to a horizon of almost 600km. I have read that on 27 Feb PAF was watching Srinagar base in real time and I wonder if this UAV wasn't responsible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY UAV SYSTEMS – INTEGRATED DYNAMICS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idaerospace.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are also some Loitering munition (one of which looks like a Flying Dildo) and our own much more capable version of Shahed (running the numbers it has a range of almost 2000 km).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOITERING MUNITIONS – INTEGRATED DYNAMICS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idaerospace.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why has this been under wraps for so long and wonder what other stuff is still classified.
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @blain2 @JamD (since I need my hopes dashed and heartbroken) @SQ8 (ditto)


Pakistan's defense industry tends to keep quiet until it has something to show, at least the serious players do. ID is a very serious player and have been for a very long time.


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## SQ8

sparten said:


> Integrated Dynamic have updated their website after quite a while (post IDEAS 2022).
> Some of the stuff they are showing is quite impressive, especially the HALE. The Solaris and Stratos HALE drones have a celling of 6KM and 22 KM (officially). The latter translate to a horizon of almost 600km. I have read that on 27 Feb PAF was watching Srinagar base in real time and I wonder if this UAV wasn't responsible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY UAV SYSTEMS – INTEGRATED DYNAMICS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idaerospace.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are also some Loitering munition (one of which looks like a Flying Dildo) and our own much more capable version of Shahed (running the numbers it has a range of almost 2000 km).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOITERING MUNITIONS – INTEGRATED DYNAMICS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idaerospace.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why has this been under wraps for so long and wonder what other stuff is still classified.
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @blain2 @JamD (since I need my hopes dashed and heartbroken) @SQ8 (ditto)


It’s not just about classified - some things are 70% ready and they are considered “products” to be sold(think tesla) and in other cases it’s a simple case of not knowing how to market it. 

That company outside of RWP - Satuma had a very long range bi wing design about the size of the Shahed back in 2006.. but you don’t see it on the website because their bread and butter are the ones listed.

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## sparten

Is SATUMA even still active. They made a lot of money with the Flamingo during the start of the FATA operation since it was about the only local UAV with anything resembling long endurance, and the Army bought lots but not really heard much after that.

As for the ID offerings, these are game changing. They provide us with deep and long duration surveillance. On the India front, that makes most of their airbases under observation long term. Plus corps level manoeuvres can be watched.


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## farooqbhai007

sparten said:


> Is SATUMA even still active. They made a lot of money with the Flamingo during the start of the FATA operation since it was about the only local UAV with anything resembling long endurance, and the Army bought lots but not really heard much after that.
> 
> As for the ID offerings, these are game changing. They provide us with deep and long duration surveillance. On the India front, that makes most of their airbases under observation long term. Plus corps level manoeuvres can be watched.


still appear to have been active by 2018.


SATUMA | Projects


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## Path-Finder



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