# Burraq UCAV & Shahpur UAV inducted in Pakistani arsenal.



## Riseup

*RAWALPINDI: Pakistan has inducted the first fleet of indigenously developed Strategic Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) also referred to as drones, Burraq and Shahpur in the Army and Air Force.*



A press release by the media wing of the armed forces (ISPR) called the induction a “historic and landmark event, wherein a very effective force multiplier has been added to the inventory of the Armed Forces.” According to the ISPR, in the future these UAVs could also be gainfully employed in various socio-economic development projects as well.



The induction ceremony was attended by Army Chief, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshall Tahir Rafique, Director General Strategic Plans Divisions, General (retd) Khalid Ahmed Kidwai, senior officers from Armed Forces, scientists and engineers.





Army Chief Kayani while appreciating the work of NESCOM scientists and engineers, highlighted that induction of indigenously developed surveillance capable UAVs in Pakistan Armed Forces is a force multiplier, and will substantially enhance their target acquisition capabilities in real time.



Earlier on Monday, Army Chief Kayani paid a farewell visit to Air Headquarters in Islamabad. During his visit, the Army chief called on Air Chief Marshall Tahir Rafique Butt. The Air Chief lauded General Kayani’s services in strengthening the defence of Pakistan and contributing towards unprecedented Tri-Service synergy.

UAVs inducted in Pakistan Army and Air fleet - thenews.com.pk

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## A.Rafay

Lieutenant General (Retd) Khalid Ahmed Kidwai, Director General Strategic Plans Division handing over replica of indigenously developed surveillance capable UAVs formally inducted in Pakistan Armed Forces to General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Chief of Army Staff. (25-11-2013)

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## forcetrip

That model looks like an armed drone. Need better clarification on what they were thinking of when taking the picture or writing this article.


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## Riseup

Burraq is UCAV and armed drone.

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## hkdas

any pics of Burraq ???? how it looks like??


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## Jungibaaz

Ah so this is the Burraq, we've been waiting for this since 2009. That model there of the armed UCAV is definitely the Burraq, Shahpur isn't an armed drone.

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## The Deterrent

Is someone else also wondering why is DG SPD Kidwai holding the Burraq model too?

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## Bratva

A.Rafay said:


> Lieutenant General (Retd) Khalid Ahmed Kidwai, Director General Strategic Plans Division handing over replica of indigenously developed surveillance capable UAVs formally inducted in Pakistan Armed Forces to General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Chief of Army Staff. (25-11-2013)




My wild guess, CH-3 renamed as Burraq and most probably china gave license to build CH-3 in house

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## The Deterrent

mafiya said:


> My wild guess, CH-3 renamed as Burraq and most probably china gave license to build CH-3 in house


No, except for the airframe, Burraq is very much designed by NESCOM. The airframe is almost the same as that of CH-3.

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## hkdas

A.Rafay said:


>




is that model is the same Chinese uav???







AhaseebA said:


> No, except for the airframe, Burraq is very much designed by NESCOM. The airframe is almost the same as that of Shahpar, which was influenced by CH-3.


by comparing two pics it is clear that there is lot of Chinese help in this project


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## ghauri05

The Drone shown in picture looks like armed one......I thought Pakistan does nit has the technology of armed drones(at least it is what I have heard) .....Need clarification ???

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## forcetrip

Shouldn't it be mentioned in the article that a huge milestone of operating an armed drone has been achieved? Its not a small deal at all if true.

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## Imran Khan



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## Darth Vader



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## Bilal.

Just saw on express news channel... Very similar to shahpar and CH-3 but seemed somewhat bigger than shahpar.

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## A.Rafay

Darth Vader said:


>


What is this thing?? Looks like a flying bike!


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## A.Rafay

AhaseebA said:


> Is someone else also wondering why is DG SPD Kidwai holding the Burraq model too?


Because they both have to hand it so they can pose for the photo shoot?


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## Bilal.

@A.Rafay, That is an old pic of German Luna tactical UAV.

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## dilpakistani

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=597996206922474





there you go guys... Burraq is actually CH-3

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## Kompromat

Okay So Indians are out with their 'discredit spree' again? Why am i not surprised?

CH-3 Is a 'tactical UAV' Which Pakistan hasn't even bought!

Both Shahpar and Burraq are inspired from the Falco, we have been producing at PAC not CH-3 that we don't even have. By all means, both Shahpar and Burraq are LARGER than the Falco.

If 'looks' are the standard for copying stuff for Indian 'self appointed aeronautical engineers' on PDF, then one of those Indian UAVs with forward mounted wing flaps (Rustam or whatever its called) is also a CH-3 copy, which makes CH-3 the grandmother of all UAVs.

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## Rajput_Pakistani

Burraq is an armed UCAV. Look this news in context with purchase of Turkish ATGMs.


Also note the background picture of gentlemen. A UAV launching missile. Hope you get it.


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## jaibi

The PAF and PA are going to have them. I think the PN should as well.

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## Bratva

jaibi said:


> The PAF and PA are going to have them. I think the PN should as well.


They already have Uqaab II squadron

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## jaibi

Perhaps my information is incorrect but is that not only for surveillance whereas these can be armed as well?



mafiya said:


> They already have Uqaab II squadron


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## Alpha1

jaibi said:


> Perhaps my information is incorrect but is that not only for surveillance whereas these can be armed as well?


atleast currently not armed at all

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## jaibi

I read a paper that USN is adopting drones for anti-sub ops. It makes sense. Perhaps we should as well.



Alpha1 said:


> atleast currently not armed at all

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## Sinnerman108

mafiya said:


> My wild guess, CH-3 renamed as Burraq and most probably china gave license to build CH-3 in house



No boss

We are "Khud Kafeel" in this area.
We are ahead of China, but short of funds and facilities.

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## RAMPAGE

salman108 said:


> No boss
> 
> We are "Khud Kafeel" in this area.
> *We are ahead of China, but short of funds and facilities.*


WTF ........ care to explain ???


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## Hyde

I am really glad to hear that.

Even if the drones are not very capable as compared to more advanced nations in the world, we have something to work on. We have used drones for surveillance for several years now and after we have the armed drones, it is only going to improve further.

Sooner or later, the range will be extended to many more hundreds, the payload will be raised from heavier to heavier and the cruise speed is only going to increase.

We have the base, now it's time to tweek around get the most out of it.

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## SBD-3

A.Rafay said:


>


Two things 
1- Two missiles can be seen hanging from the model, looks like a UCAV.
2- Almost Identical like CH-3. We had been hearing about PA being interested in CH-3 and difficulties in developing a UCAV domestically, looks like Chinese have provided input and design details. 







mafiya said:


> My wild guess, CH-3 renamed as Burraq and most probably china gave license to build CH-3 in house


Very probable.

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## nomi007

burraq may be modified version of ch-3
or chinese may be assist pakistan in ucav project



A.Rafay said:


> What is this thing?? Looks like a flying bike!


EMT Luna X-2000


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## Imran Khan

nomi007 said:


> burraq may be modified version of ch-3
> or chinese may be assist pakistan in ucav project
> 
> 
> EMT Luna X-2000




we need armed drone chines or even from iblees

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## Mitro

Pakistan already operate Ch-3 from long time and Shahpur and Burraq both are different then ch-3 in design and size.

Ch-3 looks more like anka .
burraq looks like Hammar head shark like falcon.




Aeronaut said:


> Okay So Indians are out with their 'discredit spree' again? Why am i not surprised?
> 
> CH-3 Is a 'tactical UAV' Which Pakistan hasn't even bought!
> 
> Both Shahpar and Burraq are inspied from the Falco, we have been producing at PAC not CH-3 that we don't even have.
> 
> By all means, both Shahpar and Burraq are LARGER than the Falco.
> 
> If 'looks' are the standard for copying stuff for Indian 'self appointed aeronautical engineers' on PDF, then one of those Indian UAVs with forward mounted wing flaps (Rustam or whatever its called) is also a CH-3 copy, which makes CH-3 mother of all UAVs.

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## A.Rafay

Imran Khan said:


> we need armed drone chines or even from iblees


We can obtain wing loong!


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## Imran Khan

A.Rafay said:


> We can obtain wing loong!




all we need and need not we have lolz

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## Hyde

I have not been able to make any comparison between Burraq/Shahpur and CH-3. I have no idea why people are doubting about it? Pakistan has been working on indigenous drones since last 10 years or so. It is not to be surprised if we have inched one step further and adopted the weapon technology in it.

This is how Burraq and Shahpur look like

















and compare it to CH-3






dimension wise they look very different

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## Imran Khan

we don't want this is who sir we want real time live fire demo and videos that they are firing missiles on target can carry 4 to 6 missiles and heavy UAVs


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## dilpakistani

well Burrak is definitely CH-3 or similar to CH-3. Nothing much innovative but even if it is CH-3 ... it is a serious piece of hardware.


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## Imran Khan

in video burraq was not shown at all dear members all they show is shahpar just check it


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## dilpakistani

the one with oval shape and white top is Burraq. You can see 'SHP' Initials of shapar UAV serial number... and Burrak UAV Initial are BUQ or seems like BUK ... so it is Burrak or Burraq


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## Riseup

The news video


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## Riseup

Need to bomb Mullah Radio & TTP camps in Afghanistan with this tool. This is good to resolve TTP problem.

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## HRK

Anyone remembers few months back a drone attack in Waziristan (I think) was not acknowledged by US or NATO ....... & there were some speculations in press ......


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## Imran Khan

i hate this design they look like toad

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## Riseup

Imran Khan said:


> i hate this design they look like toad



 dudoo drown.

I think they try to make it compact look.

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## Imran Khan

i have found something interested in image guys look  dudoo fires missiles too

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## Sugarcane

Good - now start the party and bomb sh!t out of TTP & BLA rates

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## farhan_9909

thats a great news

this indeed is Burraq.


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## Riseup

Imran Khan said:


> i have found something interested in image guys look  dudoo fires missiles too


 Yes sure this is an UCAV.


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## HRK

*'U.S. Disavows 2 Drone Strikes Over Pakistan' *
By DECLAN WALSH| Published: March 4, 2013 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/05/world/asia/us-disavows-2-drone-strikes-over-pakistan.html

so these toys are tested in real operations ...............


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## Sugarcane

Yaar Shape achi nahi, kya daddu type ka drone banaya hai - Anyway, what are the capabilities



HRK said:


> *'U.S. Disavows 2 Drone Strikes Over Pakistan' *
> By DECLAN WALSH| Published: March 4, 2013
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/05/world/asia/us-disavows-2-drone-strikes-over-pakistan.html
> 
> so these toys are tested in real operations ...............



You want to say that real time testing already done?


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## HRK

LoveIcon said:


> Yaar Shape achi nahi, kya daddu type ka drone banaya hai - Anyway, what are the capabilities
> 
> You want to say that real time testing already done?



most probably

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## araz

A.Rafay said:


> We can obtain wing loong!


Yaara.
At this point in time we cant even get the lungi of the wing Loong that you mention. We need to wait for the economy to turm around before this talk of lets get this or that makes any sense
Araz

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## Hyde

farhan_9909 said:


> thats a great news
> 
> this indeed is Burraq.


You are a genius Sir!

It took me about 15 minutes posting the screen shots of both UAV's which I had print screened from the video and messed up during the uploading process.

You took only 2 seconds and copy pasted my links 

Anyways, off topic so don't reply back to this post

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## Hyde

Zakii said:


> I am really glad to hear that.
> 
> Even if the drones are not very capable as compared to more advanced nations in the world, we have something to work on. We have used drones for surveillance for several years now and after we have the armed drones, it is only going to improve further.
> 
> Sooner or later, the range will be extended to many more hundreds, the payload will be raised from heavier to heavier and the cruise speed is only going to increase.
> 
> We have the base, now it's time to tweak around get the most out of it.


Moreover... When we developed our first drone, Nokia was the most popular mobile manufacturer in the world with black n white screens and no ability to install apps, view pictures and videos etc. After 10 years, you are living in different world.

The point is, after extensive experience of drones, there is a strong possibility that NESCOM has naturally evolved and made their own indigenous drone? We have always been in short of funds so it took 10 years after the introduction of first Made-in-Pakistan UAV.

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## Kompromat

CH-3 may have been the research vehicle, however the Burraq is larger and looks a lot different from the CH-3 and falco.

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## A.Rafay

Zakii said:


>


Shahpur is smaller Than burraq and slim.





while Burraq looks like this but much fatter

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## proka89

*Pakistan Inducts Armed UAVs*




> Pakistan today inducted into service two indigenous UAVs, one of which appears to be armed. The military has long sought the ability to strike targets more quickly after identification.
> A press release by the military’s Inter Service Public Relations (ISPR) media branch stated Pakistan had inducted its first fleet of “indigenously developed Strategic Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs), namely Burraq and Shahpar UAV Systems” for the Army and the Air Force.
> 
> The ceremony was attended by the outgoing Army chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani; and retired Lt. Gen. Khalid Ahmed Kidwai, director General Strategic Plans Division (SPD), which overseas all aspects of Pakistan’s national deterrent.
> 
> Kayani was quoted as saying the UAVs would “substantially enhance” the military’s real time target acquisition capabilities.
> 
> According to Mansoor Ahmed from Quaid-e-Azam University’s Department of Defence and Strategic Studies, who specializes in Pakistan’s national deterrent and delivery program, the presence of Kidwai does not mean the UAVs have any non-conventional application.
> 
> “The [National Engineering and Scientific Commission ] comes under SPD, so he would be there,” he said.
> 
> NESCOM is a civilian run research-and-development organization that has designed a number of defense systems for the Pakistani military, including the Babur cruise and Shaheen ballistic missiles.
> 
> While the press release provided no other information, an accompanying photograph showed a model of a canard pusher UAV that appeared to be armed with two under-wing missiles.
> 
> Shahpar is a tactical canard pusher UAV that was developed by the Advance Engineering and Research Organisation, which is part of the state-owned Global Industrial & Defence Solutions (GIDS) conglomerate.
> 
> It was revealed to the public for the first time during IDEAS2012, Pakistan’s biannual defense exhibition, in November last year.
> 
> It was claimed to be an autonomous UAV with an endurance of seven hours and which could relay data in real time out to a range of 250 kilometers.
> 
> Observers have said the Burraq appears to be a Pakistani variant or development of the Chinese Rainbow CH-3 UCAV, but little else is known beyond speculation based on the CH-3’s specifications.
> 
> Former Pakistan Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail said additional information will be difficult to obtain for now because sources will be “wary about leaking what is considered confidential stuff.”
> 
> Reports that Pakistan was developing an armed UAV named Burraq date back to 2009. Analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said he first became aware of the existence of the Burraq some years ago when it was still in the design stages with NESCOM.
> 
> The two may be related, but he believes Burraq is armed and Shahpar unarmed.
> 
> “Shahpar can carry about a 50-kilogram payload and has around eight hours endurance. Burraq, based on CH-3 specs, would carry around a 100-kilogram payload and 12 hours endurance,” he said.
> 
> The given payload of the CH-3 is a pair of AR-1 missiles, or a pair of FT-5 small diameter bombs.
> 
> The ability of Pakistan to field an armed UAV has great benefits when faced with time-sensitive targets, he said.
> 
> “It is important in a sense that it greatly cuts the gap from detection to shoot,” he said.
> 
> Adding, “Earlier, once you detected something and wanted it taken out you had to pass on the imagery to higher ups, who had to approve and allocate resources like aircraft and by the time the aircraft got there the bad guys were long gone. Now detect, make decision, shoot and go home — all in same loop.”
> 
> He does not believe there is any real significance in the systems being named for use with both the Army and the Air Force, however, as “both have been operating their own UAV squadrons for a while now.”
> 
> “The Army has been using German EMT Luna X-2000 and the British [Meggitt] Banshee UAVs, while PAF as we know has a lot of faith in the Italian [Selex] Falco,” he added.
> 
> The Luna was also ordered by the Pakistan Navy in June 2012.

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## TOPGUN

Awsome news.. need to see Burraq firing those ATG's on the terrorists.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

we use these force multipliers purely as recon UAVs; they are not armed

i can see development of hardpoints being implemented in the near future though


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## Viking 63

Great News !!! Now use it to fire hundred thousand missles on TTP !! wipe them out !


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## Desert Fox

A.Rafay said:


> Lieutenant General (Retd) Khalid Ahmed Kidwai, Director General Strategic Plans Division handing over replica of indigenously developed surveillance capable UAVs formally inducted in Pakistan Armed Forces to General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Chief of Army Staff. (25-11-2013)



Isn't that the Chinese CH-3???











I though Burraq was a entirely new Pakistani built drone?

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## Desert Fox

Zakii said:


> I have not been able to make any comparison between Burraq/Shahpur and CH-3. I have no idea why people are doubting about it? Pakistan has been working on indigenous drones since last 10 years or so. It is not to be surprised if we have inched one step further and adopted the weapon technology in it.
> 
> This is how Burraq and Shahpur look like


So, which one is Shahpar and which one Burraq??

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## khanasifm

ch-3 , falco etc input into Baraq plus rocket-Stan you umtosand citramissiles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roketsan_Court


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## khanasifm




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## Saifullah Sani



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## Missile

Hamara daddu drone armed bhi hota hai ya nahe?


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## Kompromat

Missile said:


> Hamara daddu drone armed bhi hota hai ya nahe?




First of all, since you are new, i must stress that we use English ONLY outside the member's club, unless its absolutely necessary to use any other language.

Secondly, these drones our 'ours' and if they are daddu or whatever, it still means that they are 'ours' and 'we' built them. It means that we don't need to beg other countries to have 24/7 all aspect autonomous surveillance capability.

Now we can track targets for up to 12 hours, stalk them and shoot at them if required. Now we can target individuals who want to harm our country and mean ill to our nation, Something that even our F-16s are incapable of doing while being affordable mission platforms.. If building autonomous drones like this was an easy walk, EVERYONE would have it.

This is a landmark development for Pakistan's industrial potential and a leap in our 'Look, Track & Shoot' capabilities WITHOUT any foreign strings or restrictions/ end user agreements.

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## Missile

Aeronaut said:


> First of all, since you are new, i must stress that we use English ONLY outside the member's club, unless its absolutely necessary to use any other language.
> 
> Secondly, these drones our 'ours' and if they are daddu or whatever, it still means that they are 'ours' and 'we' built them. It means that we don't need to beg other countries to have 24/7 all aspect autonomous surveillance capability.
> 
> Now we can track targets for up to 12 hours, stalk them and shoot at them if required. Now we can target individuals who want to harm our country and mean ill to our nation, Something that even our F-16s are incapable of doing while being affordable mission platforms.. If building autonomous drones like this was an easy walk, EVERYONE would have it.
> 
> This is a landmark development for Pakistan's industrial potential and a leap in our 'Look, Track & Shoot' capabilities WITHOUT any foreign strings or restrictions/ end user agreements.


I can agree your first part that I should use english. Rest you don't need to be on fire I just asked if it has that capabilities or not? As A PAKISTANI i can call it whatever I want. So chill.

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## Kompromat

@Neptune @cabatli_53 @Sinan 

Now, it makes sense why we are buying Cirit rockets and Umtas LGMs.



Missile said:


> I can agree your first part that I should use english. Rest you don't need to be on fire I just asked if it has that capabilities or not? As A PAKISTANI i can call it whatever I want. So chill.




I am chilled as ice, just had to explain why it is what it is.

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## forcetrip

What's the weight and range of a bakhtar shikan and the difference between the Turkish import that will happen. From what I can gather the Turkish missile we are interested in is more like a guided rocket. Does the word rocket mean smaller warhead than a missile? Are the operators looking to use more rockets rather than 2 missiles?

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## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


> @Neptune @cabatli_53 @Sinan
> 
> Now, it makes sense why we are buying Cirit rockets and Umtas LGMs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am chilled as ice, just had to explain why it is what it is.


Sir are the armed drones can they fire missiles ? @Aeronaut and others


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## razgriz19

Imran Khan said:


> in video burraq was not shown at all dear members all they show is shahpar just check it



this is shahpar













the one in the video is MUCH different than shahpar from every angle, thus its safe to assume that its burraq

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## Kompromat

Zarvan said:


> Sir are the armed drones can they fire missiles ? @Aeronaut and others



Yes they can, fire missiles and guided rockets.


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## razgriz19

LoveIcon said:


> Yaar Shape achi nahi, kya daddu type ka drone banaya hai - Anyway, what are the capabilities
> 
> 
> 
> You want to say that real time testing already done?



thats why they are "inducted" as per the media


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## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


> Yes they can, fire missiles and guided rockets.


But Asim Bajwa on twitter has said they are surveillance drones why is that we don't missiles or satellite system for these drones to fire missiles


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## razgriz19

TOPGUN said:


> Awsome news.. need to see Burraq firing those ATG's on the terrorists.



we dont have any ATGM at the moment that can be fitted on burraq.
maybe thats why PA/PAF is trying to get UMTAS and Cirit.



forcetrip said:


> What's the weight and range of a bakhtar shikan and the difference between the Turkish import that will happen. From what I can gather the Turkish missile we are interested in is more like a guided rocket. Does the word rocket mean smaller warhead than a missile? Are the operators looking to use more rockets rather than 2 missiles?



we cant use bakter shikan on burraq. The launch vehicle must stay stationary, which cant be done with a uav.

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## Amaa'n

one thing I know about our Security Establishment is that they would not have bothered to come up on the screen , had it not been important.
this is for sure - these are time tested drones. whether it comes to survillance or Combat role.

is it me - or the point of this ceremony was to tell TTP and the likes - even if US backs down from drone strike - it will be them pounding them hard.
and also to Imran Khan and the likes.....
lets see who gets to fly these - lads from Intelligence or PAF

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## Kompromat

balixd said:


> one thing I know about our Security Establishment is that they would not have bothered to come up on the screen , had it not been important.
> this is for sure - these are time tested drones. whether it comes to survillance or Combat role.
> 
> is it me - or the point of this ceremony was to tell TTP and the likes - even if US backs down from drone strike - it will be them pounding them hard.
> and also to Imran Khan and the likes.....
> lets see who gets to fly these - lads from Intelligence or PAF




They can't work without each other. On the ground, human intelligence is needed in most cases.

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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> one thing I know about our Security Establishment is that they would not have bothered to come up on the screen , had it not been important.
> this is for sure - these are time tested drones. whether it comes to survillance or Combat role.
> 
> is it me - or the point of this ceremony was to tell TTP and the likes - even if US backs down from drone strike - it will be them pounding them hard.
> and also to Imran Khan and the likes.....
> lets see who gets to fly these - lads from Intelligence or PAF


If that happens than that would be would be disaster of our forces if they start firing missiles on its own people that would increase the hatred more but Assim Bajwa on twitter is saying these are surveillance drones and also something else he said 
Pakistan inducted 1st fleet of indigenously developed UAV systems #Burraq and #Shahpar in #Army/#Air Force. A landmark achievement indeed

UAVs: Induction of surveillance capable UAVs is a force multiplier, will substantially enhance target acquisition capabilities in real time.

I believe neither are weaponised at the moment. I believe you need an effcctive mapping system for targeting. this was questioned asked by a journalist and than he replied 
this 
True, Both surveillance capable
above are also his tweets 
@Aeronaut @balixd @Rafi @Areesh @Oscar and others


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## ejaz007

*Pakistan launches its own ‘drone’*

RAWALPINDI: Pakistan on Monday inducted the first fleet of indigenously developed strategic unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), namely Burraq and Shahpar, in the Pakistan Army and Pakistan Air Force. 

The induction of UAVs, which are very effective force multipliers, to the inventory of armed forces is a landmark achievement. In the future these UAVs can also be gainfully employed in various socio-economic development projects. The induction ceremony was attended by Chief of the Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt, Strategic Plans Division Director General Lieutenant General (r) Khalid Ahmed Kidwai and senior officers from the armed forces, scientists and engineers, said an ISPR press release.

While appreciating the work of National Engineering and Scientific Commission’s scientists and engineers, Kayani noted that the induction of the indigenously developed surveillance capable UAVs in the armed forces was a force multiplier, and would substantially enhance their target acquisition capabilities in real time. The announcement comes as some of the country’s political parties and thousands of people have protested US drone strikes in the tribal region. app

http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2013\11\26\story_26-11-2013_pg1_3


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## Zarvan




----------



## Imran Khan

BTW they have good numbers in hand

SHA- 11-802 in ideas they show
SHA -13-623 showed in video

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## forcetrip

Any indications on flight ceiling of the two models?


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## Luftwaffe

Get funds and get Chinese "Predator" drones, that's all I can stress in 8 Years we've come with 2 systems of similar types support which has similarities to Falco except these would be armed versions, can't welcome them with much enthusiasm. In the end these are "inspired" by Falco UAVs.


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## A.Rafay

Imran Khan said:


> BTW they have good numbers in hand
> 
> SHA- 11-802 in ideas they show
> SHA -13-623 showed in video


And Burraq Numbers are like this:
B07 showed in video.


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## SOHEIL

salman108 said:


> No boss
> 
> We are "Khud Kafeel" in this area.
> We are ahead of China, but short of funds and facilities.



ahead of China !?


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## Luftwaffe

SOHEIL said:


> ahead of China !?


 
You'll meet all sorts of delusional people in your life, just chuckle and move on.

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## SOHEIL

Anyway ... congratz brothers !

anybody knows about dimensions & specs ?

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## bc040400065

The model is clearly carrying 2 missiles. So It is now confirmed that it is a UCAV.


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## HRK

Jang Multimedia

I haven't found this news anywhere els according to this new Dr. Samad Mubarak gave some specification which are 

service ceiling 20,000+
fully automated without human interference during flight ..... 
day night operational capability 
Able to fly continuously for several hour 
due to Specific design would have stealthy features .....
on board mission computer will perform missions as per pre flight instructions ......


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## MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n

Darth Vader said:


>


yar which one is this beauty ?


----------



## bc040400065

The model is clearly carrying 2 missiles. So It is now confirmed that it is a UCAV.


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## True pakistani 22

Mubarak to Pakistan state 

Now we have Pakistan Home Made UCAV  

Thanks You NESCOM


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## DANGER-ZONE

Oh the helll noooo ..... The thing is preety ugly ..... But have u guys noticed the size of the BURAQ ... See the door in the background and the table .... this dron is massive . 
It seem to be 5 - 6ft high.


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## Water Car Engineer

Aeronaut said:


> Okay So Indians are out with their 'discredit spree' again? Why am i not surprised?




Aeronaut, you used to open up threads just for the purpose all the time.....



> (Rustam or whatever its called) is also a CH-3 copy



Rustom-1, CH-3, etc got their design from a manned aircraft.

*Rutan Long-EZ*


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## Chak Bamu

Zarvan said:


> But Asim Bajwa on twitter has said they are surveillance drones why is that we don't missiles or satellite system for these drones to fire missiles



The army is not prepared to advertise the targeting capabilities just yet. They have started a process to introduce these things to awam, so that people do not say that the drones are supplied by USA, or that their use is upon US dictation.

The formal introduction depends on the outcome of the peace process which apparently in pretty dead right now. Once IK stops his dharna politics and PMNS decides that we need to take care of TTP, we would see these things in operation. Army hates terrorists and they are not prepared to allow much more time to them. Recent change of heart regarding Haqqani network is because of their support for TTP. Just watch what happens now.

Timing is everything.
-----------------------------------

I have noted with interest all that Dr. Samar Mubarak Mand has said. Younger brother of my dearest friend was part of the team that designed, built, and flew first drone. That was not NESCOM, neither was it eight years ago. That was 10 / 11 years ago. The team of aeronautical engineers was headed by a PhD engineer. They were given ambitious targets and they delivered.

I am sorry but I can not say more. I just wanted to straighten up the record to the extent of knowledge that I possessed.

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## XYON

Butt Ugly Burraq ........ that what it should have been named! I am not even surprised that we have multi-billion dollar aeronautical complexes under Army and PAF that do nothing but COPY technology from others only to proudly call there own or INDIGENOUS!

This UAV, as large as it may be, has poor shape, a large radar cross section, very badly made landing 'fixed' gear, do not see any hard-points for armed payloads, the size of the prop at the back seemingly makes it noisy in the air (like a Cessna), etc etc

I mean really!! How hard it is these days to come up with an original design for such military toys?


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## Water Car Engineer

The design from the Rutan Long-EZ, which many nations used for their UAV projects is a good one. But for an armed drone, dont know. Surprised it can carry two missiles.


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## Zarvan

Chak Bamu said:


> The army is not prepared to advertise the targeting capabilities just yet. They have started a process to introduce these things to awam, so that people do not say that the drones are supplied by USA, or that their use is upon US dictation.
> 
> The formal introduction depends on the outcome of the peace process which apparently in pretty dead right now. Once IK stops his dharna politics and PMNS decides that we need to take care of TTP, we would see these things in operation. Army hates terrorists and they are not prepared to allow much more time to them. Recent change of heart regarding Haqqani network is because of their support for TTP. Just watch what happens now.
> 
> Timing is everything.
> -----------------------------------
> 
> I have noted with interest all that Dr. Samar Mubarak Mand has said. Younger brother of my dearest friend was part of the team that designed, built, and flew first drone. That was not NESCOM, neither was it eight years ago. That was 10 / 11 years ago. The team of aeronautical engineers was headed by a PhD engineer. They were given ambitious targets and they delivered.
> 
> I am sorry but I can not say more. I just wanted to straighten up the record to the extent of knowledge that I possessed.


We are not going take this to some beauty contest Sir and @Chak Bamu using these drones on our own people will prove last nail in the coffin for our forces Sir that would be disaster of epic levels and yes the main problem is satellite and mapping thing



Chak Bamu said:


> The army is not prepared to advertise the targeting capabilities just yet. They have started a process to introduce these things to awam, so that people do not say that the drones are supplied by USA, or that their use is upon US dictation.
> 
> The formal introduction depends on the outcome of the peace process which apparently in pretty dead right now. Once IK stops his dharna politics and PMNS decides that we need to take care of TTP, we would see these things in operation. Army hates terrorists and they are not prepared to allow much more time to them. Recent change of heart regarding Haqqani network is because of their support for TTP. Just watch what happens now.
> 
> Timing is everything.
> -----------------------------------
> 
> I have noted with interest all that Dr. Samar Mubarak Mand has said. Younger brother of my dearest friend was part of the team that designed, built, and flew first drone. That was not NESCOM, neither was it eight years ago. That was 10 / 11 years ago. The team of aeronautical engineers was headed by a PhD engineer. They were given ambitious targets and they delivered.
> 
> I am sorry but I can not say more. I just wanted to straighten up the record to the extent of knowledge that I possessed.


and by the if we get that mapping and other things is done that they just need to fit missiles on them an fire and what are the probably missiles they will fit on these drones ?


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## Areesh

I don't care whether it is beautiful or ugly or whatever. If it can help Pakistan to turn off the radio of Mullah radio permanently. Also if it can end US drone strikes drama in this country. I am perfectly fine with it.

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## Amaa'n

Aeronaut said:


> They can't work without each other. On the ground, human intelligence is needed in most cases.


ofcourse- inorder to make it efficient,effective and precision strike, we need data from all sorts, be it HUMINT, SIGINT or the survillance data.

am 


Zarvan said:


> If that happens than that would be would be disaster of our forces if they start firing missiles on its own people that would increase the hatred more but Assim Bajwa on twitter is saying these are surveillance drones and also something else he said
> Pakistan inducted 1st fleet of indigenously developed UAV systems #Burraq and #Shahpar in #Army/#Air Force. A landmark achievement indeed
> 
> UAVs: Induction of surveillance capable UAVs is a force multiplier, will substantially enhance target acquisition capabilities in real time.
> 
> I believe neither are weaponised at the moment. I believe you need an effcctive mapping system for targeting. this was questioned asked by a journalist and than he replied
> this
> True, Both surveillance capable
> above are also his tweets
> @Aeronaut @balixd @Rafi @Areesh @Oscar and others



not getting in argument with you over the strikes- whether we will be killing our own or not - but one thing i know for sure is that - Mullah fazal is not OUR PEOPLE, and would like to see this man dead be it our drone or american, i do not give a damn.
even if we use these for Survillance ops that is huge advantage, especially when you have live operation going on with on ground troops.

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## Lone Ranger

*Rawalpindi: Pakistan today included the 1st fleet of indigenously developed strategic Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs), namely Burraq & Shahpar UAV systems in Pakistan Army & Air Force.

*The effective force multiplier has been added to the inventory of the Armed Forces in a prestigious ceremony while the UAVs could also be gainfully employed in various socioeconomic development projects.




Top Military Leadership attended the induction ceremony of drone planes including Chief Of Army Staff (COAS) General Ishfaq Parvez Kayani, Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt, Chief Of The Air Staff Lieutenant General (R) Khalid Ahmed Kidwai, Director General (DG) Strategic Plan Division and other Senior Officials the Armed Forces, Scientists and Engineers.

COAS General Ishfaq Parvez Kayani highlighted that induction of indigenously developed surveillance capable UAVs in Pakistan Armed Forces is a force multiplier and substantially enhance their target acquisition capability in real time.

The top Military official appreciated the work of National Engineers and Scientific Commission (NESCOM) scientists and engineers for their great job.


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## Chak Bamu

Zarvan said:


> We are not going take this to some beauty contest Sir and @Chak Bamu using these drones on our own people will prove last nail in the coffin for our forces Sir that would be disaster of epic levels and yes the main problem is satellite and mapping thing
> 
> 
> and by the if we get that mapping and other things is done that they just need to fit missiles on them an fire and what are the probably missiles they will fit on these drones ?



Bhai, nobody asks me or you when making policies and executing them. We can discuss these thing, but unlike you I call things as I see them, not as I want them to become. 

I have never advocated senseless spending upon weapon systems because I see & experience the effects of lack of public spending. Spending on weapons without over-riding necessity is a stupid policy for us. You my friend call for spending on all sorts of weapons to get lots of them, because you are focused on dreams of conquest while our hospitals are often without medicine, our courts keep lawsuits pending for lack of judges, and our government schools run without effective oversight.

This difference of perspective makes you disagree with me, even when I am actually saying nothing. I just reported something I see happening, and you are telling me that it is a mistake to acknowledge it. Our army will not tolerate TTP and its collaborators and if they must, they will use our own drones. They will do it without consulting me or you. So do not blame me for saying it. I am only saying what I see. I am not fixated on what I want to see happening.

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## PiyaraPakistan

Mubarik to all Pakistanis and Pakistan's friends
Induction timing is very crucial, i think its a clear signal to TTP that come to Talking Table or be ready for otherwise.
perhaps another blame game is going to start i.e. US did this Pakistan did this. Now pakistan should focus on dialogue with TTP if they are not agreed then explode their head with UCAVs before they explode bomb on peaceful and innocent civilians and our Soldiers.


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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> ofcourse- inorder to make it efficient,effective and precision strike, we need data from all sorts, be it HUMINT, SIGINT or the survillance data.
> 
> am
> 
> 
> not getting in argument with you over the strikes- whether we will be killing our own or not - but one thing i know for sure is that - Mullah fazal is not OUR PEOPLE, and would like to see this man dead be it our drone or american, i do not give a damn.
> even if we use these for Survillance ops that is huge advantage, especially when you have live operation going on with on ground troops.


Sir they are our people Sir and for your kind information Fazlullah also lost his brother in damadullah attack which our dear government led by Musharraf idiotically started claiming in which 60 innocent children died we said same about those in Bangladesh and we lost that and repeating same mistakes here



Chak Bamu said:


> Bhai, nobody asks me or you when making policies and executing them. We can discuss these thing, but unlike you I call things as I see them, not as I want them to become.
> 
> I have never advocated senseless spending upon weapon systems because I see & experience the effects of lack of public spending. Spending on weapons without over-riding necessity is a stupid policy for us. You my friend call for spending on all sorts of weapons to get lots of them, because you are focused on dreams of conquest while our hospitals are often without medicine, our courts keep lawsuits pending for lack of judges, and our government schools run without effective oversight.
> 
> This difference of perspective makes you disagree with me, even when I am actually saying nothing. I just reported something I see happening, and you are telling me that it is a mistake to acknowledge it. Our army will not tolerate TTP and its collaborators and if they must, they will use our own drones. They will do it without consulting me or you. So do not blame me for saying it. I am only saying what I see. I am not fixated on what I want to see happening.


O really Army still supports lot of militant organisations if not TTP than many others Sir


----------



## Chak Bamu

@Zarvan, I would like to ask you for more information. But that would derail the thread. Let us get back to topic.


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## m haris khan

Pakistan today inducted into service two indigenous UAVs, one of which appears to be armed. The military has long sought the ability to strike targets more quickly after identification.
Pakistan Inducted Armed Drone - World Wide Defense



dilpakistani said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=597996206922474
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there you go guys... Burraq is actually CH-3


No,burraq is totally different see the pics of it

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## nomi007

German EMT Luna X-2000 UAV in Pakistan Army service

The Army has been using German EMT Luna X-2000 and the British [Meggitt] Banshee UAVs, while PAF as we know has a lot of faith in the Italian [Selex] Falco.
Meggitt Banshee
is a British target drone developed in the 1980s for air defence systems training

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## Luftwaffe

mafiya said:


> My wild guess, CH-3 renamed as Burraq and most probably china gave license to build CH-3 in house


 
It looks though Pakistan studied certain UAV designs/models on the market and came up with its own version named Burraq, how ever you may call it first serious step, it is never a bad idea to consult and or buy from a trusted and an experienced market/country such as China, the future skies would be immensely covered with UAV/UCAVs and Chinese are atleast in this filed miles ahead.


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## haman10

Areesh said:


> I don't care whether it is beautiful or ugly or whatever. If it can help Pakistan to turn off the radio of Mullah radio permanently..



iranian members come here congratulating u , this is the bs that u give us !! so much for pakistani politeness  

anyway , from iran , congrats .


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## Bilal.

haman10 said:


> iranian members come here congratulating u , this is the bs that u give us !! so much for pakistani politeness
> 
> anyway , from iran , congrats .



You do know who mulla radio/mulla fm is... It's a nickname of the current TTP leader.

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## T-123456

Bilal. said:


> You do know who mulla radio/mulla fm is... It's a nickname of the current TTP leader.


You beat me to it,i was just about to post that it could be Taliban radio.

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## dilpakistani

haman10 said:


> iranian members come here congratulating u , this is the bs that u give us !! so much for pakistani politeness
> 
> anyway , from iran , congrats .


lol its not about Iranian supreme leader. It is about TTP supreme leader

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## Areesh

haman10 said:


> iranian members come here congratulating u , this is the bs that u give us !! so much for pakistani politeness
> 
> anyway , from iran , congrats .



My Post was about Taliban not Iran. Don't know where you find Iran in my post.

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## haman10

Bilal. said:


> You do know who mulla radio/mulla fm is... It's a nickname of the current TTP leader.





Areesh said:


> My Post was about Taliban not Iran. Don't where you find Iran in my post.





dilpakistani said:


> lol its not about Iranian supreme leader. It is about TTP supreme leader





T-123456 said:


> You beat me to it,i was just about to post that it could be Taliban radio.



goddam it !! 

my bad !! sorry !!! 

i now go educate myself

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## Areesh

haman10 said:


> goddam it !!
> 
> my bad !! sorry !!!
> 
> i now go educate myself



By the way this i Mullah radio I was talking about.

Fazlullah (militant leader) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## haman10

Areesh said:


> By the way this i Mullah radio I was talking about.
> 
> Fazlullah (militant leader) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



looks like you just found a good target for burraq !

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## Gryphon

Pakistan struggles in race to develop armed drones - Yahoo News

Pakistan Inducts Armed UAVs | Defense News | defensenews.com

Pakistan introduces fleet of locally-developed drones - DAWN.COM

China seeks drone buyers in developing countries | GlobalPost

@Aeronaut

Take a look at those four reports..



haman10 said:


> looks like you just found a good target for burraq !



Give us some good wishes so that we can soon test a couple of AR-1 missiles on Fazlullah successfully.

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## saiyan0321

This is great news. In such troubled times its great to know that we are still making headway into what maybe the future of aerial warfare. If burraq really is UCAV then this is a massive achievement that must be highlighted. time to take control from USA and shot down mullah FM. Plus it can help us in operations too where sending troops is difficult and costly. Well done.


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## farhan_9909

The burraq looks almost atleast 2-3times the size of Shahpar.


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## cabatli_53

Aeronaut said:


> @Neptune @cabatli_53 @Sinan
> 
> Now, it makes sense why we are buying Cirit rockets and Umtas LGMs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am chilled as ice, just had to explain why it is what it is.




It is a great news Pakistan introduced two variant of UCAV. Light weight but strong impact Turkish AT missiles will perform great on a brother's platforms against enemy assets...

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## RAMPAGE

Zarvan said:


> We are not going take this to some beauty contest Sir and @Chak Bamu using these drones on our own people will prove last nail in the coffin for our forces Sir that would be disaster of epic levels and yes the main problem is satellite and mapping thing
> 
> 
> and by the if we get that mapping and other things is done that they just need to fit missiles on them an fire and what are the probably missiles they will fit on these drones ?


bhai jaan, one hand you support that idiot ZH and on the other you call those zalimans "our people" .... they have proved that they are against the state and our constitution. so i can't understand your love for them !!!

*"kia ye khulla tazaad nahi" ???? 
*
btw who told you that we need a satellite to fire these drones? if we go by your logic than our cobras should not be able to fire our ATGMs ..... every guided missile has a "Guidance System",
and for your knowledge PA uses GPS and BeiDou navigation systems.
These UCAVs will we used as cost effective CAS in the upcoming operations against the insurgents.
so stop the BS about PA getting "Badnaam" or loosing public support by using these drones against militants who are despised by the public itself.

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## Soldier-X

razgriz19 said:


> this is shahpar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the one in the video is MUCH different than shahpar from every angle, thus its safe to assume that its burraq


 i like shahpr design,much latest


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## Basel

Burraq's fat body looks inspired from B-2 Sprit  from picture it looks Burraq has fat body and no IR/Laser pod in its belly. If its a UCAV what kind of on board system it may have?

Also in future its big size can allow installation/creation of weapons internal bay to fool enemy as it will look simple UAV.


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## rockstar08

wow man Congratulations 
they waited for a decade for this ... now they achieved finally 
great work pakistan army scientists . 
but why peoples are getting confused about one thing is it armed or not ? ? 
in model two missiles can see easily.


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## Kompromat

rockstar08 said:


> wow man Congratulations
> they waited for a decade for this ... now they achieved finally
> great work pakistan army scientists .
> but why peoples are getting confused about one thing is it armed or not ? ?
> in model two missiles can see easily.




I tried to confirm but the man wouldn't say 

The trick is, power to weight ratio. This thing is most definitely going to carry ordinance.


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## T-123456

Well done Pakistan

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## Armstrong

T-123456 said:


> Well done Pakistan



When are you sending the ANKA for me ? I'm already using these two UAVs to get Pizza delivered right onto my balcony but I need a MALE UAV for getting some of those better Kebabs from the next city !

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## T-123456

Armstrong said:


> When are you sending the ANKA for me ? I'm already using these two UAVs to get Pizza delivered right onto my balcony but I need a MALE UAV for getting some of those better Kebabs from the next city !


Dont worry your ANKA is on the way with some presents from me.
Sent a CIRIT(Turkish Delight)and a OMTAS(Turkish pizza)just for you,enjoy 
But serious,im sure Pakistan will get some ANKA's.

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## Kompromat

T-123456 said:


> Dont worry your ANKA is on the way with some presents from me.
> Sent a CIRIT(Turkish Delight)and a OMTAS(Turkish pizza)just for you,enjoy
> But serious,im sure Pakistan will get some ANKA's.




We'll get one that has a head like the Tiger Shark - AnkaB

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## razgriz19

RAMPAGE said:


> bhai jaan, one hand you support that idiot ZH and on the other you call those zalimans "our people" .... they have proved that they are against the state and our constitution. so i can't understand your love for them !!!
> 
> *"kia ye khulla tazaad nahi" ????
> *
> btw who told you that we need a satellite to fire these drones? if we go by your logic than *our cobras should not be able to fire our ATGMs ..... every guided missile has a "Guidance System",
> and for your knowledge PA uses GPS and BeiDou navigation systems.*
> These UCAVs will we used as cost effective CAS in the upcoming operations against the insurgents.
> so stop the BS about PA getting "Badnaam" or loosing public support by using these drones against militants who are despised by the public itself.



our cobra uses WIRE-GUIDED missiles
which is considered ancient technology now.
The launch vehicle must remain STATIONARY


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## IceCold

Why are people criticizing the shape of Burraq? If looked closely the drone does seem to be low observable, something confirmed by NESCOM Chief himself as well which explains why the shape to be different from regular drones.


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## Zarvan

IceCold said:


> Why are people criticizing the shape of Burraq? If looked closely the drone does seem to be low observable, something confirmed by NESCOM Chief himself as well which explains why the shape to be different from regular drones.


I am still confused can you please tell which one is Burraq and which is the other drone


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## IceCold

Zarvan said:


> I am still confused can you please tell which one is Burraq and which is the other drone



The one at the bottom in post # 124 with round shape to which people referring as toad.


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## FaujHistorian

Zarvan said:


> I am still confused can you please tell which one is Burraq and which is the other drone



Doesn't matter. 

What matters is if these drones can stop Tehrik Terrorists of Pakistan (TTP) and Tali-barbarians from attacking our Malalas.

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## itaskol

well done. congrate


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## ZohaibMumtaz

guyzzz please i want to know that these drones can fire missiles Please tell me?


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## FaujHistorian

ZohaibMumtaz said:


> guyzzz please i want to know that these drones can fire missiles Please tell me?




Any drone can potentially fire a missile or drop a small bomb. 

However there has been no proof that "Assembled in Pakistan" drones have successfully demonstrated a capability to accurately target an enemy with firing bullets, bombs or missiles. 

Hope this helps.

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## ZohaibMumtaz

FaujHistorian said:


> Any drone can potentially fire a missile or drop a small bomb.
> 
> However there has been no proof that "Assembled in Pakistan" drones have successfully demonstrated a capability to accurately target an enemy with firing bullets, bombs or missiles.
> 
> Hope this helps.


thanx for helpign me it`s mean buraaq can fire a missile huh if it can than awesome finally we got drone that can attack

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## tarrar

A.Rafay said:


> Lieutenant General (Retd) Khalid Ahmed Kidwai, Director General Strategic Plans Division handing over replica of indigenously developed surveillance capable UAVs formally inducted in Pakistan Armed Forces to General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Chief of Army Staff. (25-11-2013)




The replica of Shahpar is Armed, so is Shahpar a Armed Drone? Because Chinese CH drone is Armed.












dilpakistani said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=597996206922474
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there you go guys... Burraq is actually CH-3




Chinese CH3 is a Armed Drone, so are our Shahpar Armed as well?


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## FaujHistorian

tarrar said:


> The replica of Shahpar is Armed, so is Shahpar a Armed Drone? Because Chinese CH drone is Armed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese CH3 is a Armed Drone, so are our Shahpar Armed as well?



Bhai sahib

you have to wait until you hear that our shah-par Ji or Barraq Ji has finally sent to Islamist Jannat fazlu-the-attacker-of-Malala


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## ZohaibMumtaz

so which core of pakistan army will operate these drone i think it will operate by Pakistan Army Air Defence am i right?


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## Kompromat

ZohaibMumtaz said:


> so which core of pakistan army will operate these drone i think it will operate by Pakistan Army Air Defence am i right?



Air Force / ISI.


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## ZohaibMumtaz

Aeronaut said:


> Air Force / ISI.


i don`t think so ISI will operate army air defence will operate i little bit suree


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## PiyaraPakistan

FaujHistorian said:


> Doesn't matter.
> 
> What matters is if these drones can stop Tehrik Terrorists of Pakistan (TTP) and Tali-barbarians from attacking our Malalas.


Sir i like your definition of TTP, its true they are terrorists not Taliban.


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## Secur

Why not bother to release some pictures and more information ? Why always leave us guessing ? *sigh*


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## PiyaraPakistan

ZohaibMumtaz said:


> i don`t think so ISI will operate army air defence will operate i little bit suree


ISI will provide the intelligence. Its the combination of Intelligence and technicalities involved in the operation, ISI has the Intelligence and PAF has the Technical expertise, both will work with complete/mutual understanding ,i think thats why Sir Aeronaut says that.

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## Armstrong

Secur said:


> Why not bother to release some pictures and more information ? Why always leave us guessing ? *sigh*



The Armed Forces are like the flirtatious blonde we all chase after but know we can't have !  

Damn now my mind's eye painted a picture of @Xeric & @Icarus as a pair of blondes wearing back-less dresses !

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## dilpakistani

tarrar said:


> The replica of Shahpar is Armed, so is Shahpar a Armed Drone? Because Chinese CH drone is Armed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese CH3 is a Armed Drone, so are our Shahpar Armed as well?


Shapar is not armed buddy. Burraq is armed


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## Gryphon

GIDS Shahpar






NESCOM Burraq






AR-1 Missiles





The model looks more similar to Shahpar.. 

And if it is to carry 2 x AR-1 missiles, it must have at least 90kg (2 x 45) payload capacity. Shahpar has only 50kg payload capacity and 7 hours endurance.

Burraq has 100kg payload capacity and 12 hours of endurance.

Can somebody here compare them with respect to powerplant & speed.


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## alimobin memon

razgriz19 said:


> our cobra uses WIRE-GUIDED missiles
> which is considered ancient technology now.
> The launch vehicle must remain STATIONARY


Nope Wire Guided aint Ancient technology Sorry dude. Its improved hell alot. Just to justify your answer you cant say wire guided is ancient.



RAMPAGE said:


> bhai jaan, one hand you support that idiot ZH and on the other you call those zalimans "our people" .... they have proved that they are against the state and our constitution. so i can't understand your love for them !!!
> 
> *"kia ye khulla tazaad nahi" ????
> *
> btw who told you that we need a satellite to fire these drones? if we go by your logic than our cobras should not be able to fire our ATGMs ..... every guided missile has a "Guidance System",
> and for your knowledge PA uses GPS and BeiDou navigation systems.
> These UCAVs will we used as cost effective CAS in the upcoming operations against the insurgents.
> so stop the BS about PA getting "Badnaam" or loosing public support by using these drones against militants who are despised by the public itself.



Dude that is possible for a static hovering aircraft so that he can keep guiding the missile to its target but our drone cannot hover just like any conventional aircraft. It requires special GPS guidance atleast that records the coordinates or the objects IR signature. There are types of Guidance system the Homing or Remote control.
Missile guidance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Read this link.


----------



## RAMPAGE

razgriz19 said:


> our cobra uses WIRE-GUIDED missiles
> which is considered ancient technology now.
> The launch vehicle must remain STATIONARY


Did i say that it doesn't  ????????



alimobin memon said:


> Dude that is possible for a static hovering aircraft so that he can keep guiding the missile to its target but our drone cannot hover just like any conventional aircraft. It requires special GPS guidance atleast that records the coordinates or the objects IR signature. There are types of Guidance system the Homing or Remote control.
> Missile guidance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Read this link.


 Read my post again !!!


----------



## brother2008

祝福我们的兄弟不断强大，共同努力，消灭世界的黑恶势力。

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## DANGER-ZONE

brother2008 said:


> 祝福我们的兄弟不断强大，共同努力，消灭世界的黑恶势力。



Hamaray Chinese bhai Pakistanio ko CH-3 ke copy marnay per chinese mein dil ki gehraion se Galiyan de rahay hain.

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## Riseup

DANGER-ZONE said:


> Hamaray Chinese bhai Pakistanio ko CH-3 ke copy marnay per chinese mein dil ki gehraion se Galiyan de rahay hain.



Yaar badgumani buri baat hay



brother2008 said:


> 祝福我们的兄弟不断强大，共同努力，消灭世界的黑恶势力。



Its actual translation is

"Blesses to our brothers on their continually strong and concerted efforts to destroy the evil forces of the world."

Thanks @brother2008

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## rockstar08

which countries have armed drones ??? 
i heard only about USA


----------



## Rafi

Intel will be conducting Armed Drone strikes, the Airforce will also employ them for mainly CAS, over convoys.


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## FaujHistorian

Just curious if the stealth version of Burraq UCAV, 

should be named

Burqa UCAV



Rafi said:


> Intel will be conducting Armed Drone strikes, the Airforce will also employ them for mainly CAS, over convoys.



Don't like the "will be conducting" part. 

We have a war going on. 

Tali-barbarians are buying naans in Islamabad hotels and then subsequently being turned into Kabobs. 

Where are our Burraq UCAVs?

CAn't we even fly 4 of them? just forking 4. Is it too much to ask?

2 for Islu+Pindi

and

2 for 90 in Karachi?


Enough of this idle talk. 


Let5's see some action


Let's see some videos made by Burraq UCAV. 


Thank you


----------



## Saquib

Which GPS system do they use? or is it line of sight system?


----------



## Baradar

Congratz Pakistan.

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## farhan_9909

Got this from PDF,

Some tagged this as Burraq.
Not sure if real or fake.

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## Kompromat

Looks legit.


----------



## A.Rafay

rockstar08 said:


> which countries have armed drones ???
> i heard only about USA


Iran already posses armed drones and stealth drones.


----------



## farhan_9909

any guess about the laser guided missiles?


----------



## farhan_9909

Predator and Burraq

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## graphican

This is not Burraq but Falco.

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## A.Rafay

farhan_9909 said:


> Predator and Burraq


Its not Burraq! Its CH-3. Burraq has wide and fat body, its a little bigger than CH-3.
CH-3 can be compared to Shahpur, while shahpur doesn't have hard points.


----------



## Arsalan

razgriz19 said:


> we cant use bakter shikan on burraq. The launch vehicle must stay stationary, which cant be done with a uav.



we are using Baktar Shikan variant with our Cobra Gun Ships helicopters, they are also not stationary platforms so this cant be the reason.





https://defence.pk/threads/variants-of-baktar-shikan-missiles.68082/

also at:
HJ-8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## farhan_9909

A.Rafay said:


> Its not Burraq! Its CH-3. Burraq has wide and fat body, its a little bigger than CH-3.
> CH-3 can be compared to Shahpur, while shahpur doesn't have hard points.



CH-3 is smaller when compared with the above picture.


----------



## A.Rafay

farhan_9909 said:


> CH-3 is smaller when compared with the above picture.


Do a Google search for CH-3.


----------



## fatman17

*Pakistan inducts first 'indigenous' UAVs*

Author:*Farhan Bokhari*, Islamabad
*James Hardy*, London

Last posted:2013-Nov-28
Images:1 image

Pakistan announced on 25 November the formal induction of the first fleet of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) by the Pakistan Army and the Pakistan Air Force: the first public acknowledgement of a programme that was previously kept under wraps.

The Pakistan armed forces inducted the Shahpar UAV on 25 November. (Gordon Arthur)

The Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) agency described the induction as a "landmark and historic event".

The statement identified two different types of UAV as entering service: the Burraq and Shahpar, but did not provide information on the number of platforms inducted.

The 470-kg medium-range Shahpar is produced by Pakistan's Global Industrial & Defence Solutions (GIDS) but bears more than a passing resemblance to the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) CH-3. It was reported in 2010 that China was preparing to deliver 20 systems, along with the CASC FT-5 65 kg-class 'small diameter bomb', to Pakistan in 2011.

According to GIDS, the Shahpar is powered by a 100 hp Rotax piston engine with a maximum speed of 150 km/h, has an endurance of 7 hours, and is capable of day/night surveillance.

No details are available on the Burraq, although previous reports have suggested that it also might be based on the CH-3. Whatever their provenance, the Burraq and Shahpar will join a batch of reconnaissance Selex ES Falco medium-altitude tactical UAVs in Pakistani service.

The ISPR added that the "UAVs could also be gainfully employed in various socio-economic development projects", indicating a wider intent beyond the platforms' most likely operational role: reconnaissance of the federally administered tribal areas (FATA), which border Afghanistan.

COMMENT
A Western defence official stated that the decision to induct the two UAVs also appeared to signal intensifying plans to acquire armed UAVs.

"The Pakistanis have been keen for some time to acquire UAVs that have an offensive capability," said one Western defence official in Islamabad, adding that the plan was "not totally unrelated" to Pakistan's public objections to UAV attacks carried out by the US that target suspected militant sanctuaries in FATA.

"As the US drawdown looms, the Pakistanis also want to have their own capability in this area so that they can target different places themselves. The US attacks are too controversial [in Pakistan]," he added.

The ISPR's UAV announcement came on the day when activists from the opposition Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf (PTI) party in Peshawar began blocking the main supply route to Afghanistan. Khan has promised to enforce the blockade until the United States ends the use of UAVs in Pakistani territory.

Western officials insist the UAV programme serves a crucial purpose and cite the recent death of Hakimullah Mehsud, the former leader of the Taliban, who was killed in a UAV attack in FATA on 1 November.
JDW


----------



## Gessler

On November 25, 2013, Pakistan’s ISPR announced that the Pakistan Army and 
PAF had inducted the first batch of ‘indigenously developed’ strategic UAVs, namely 
the *Burraq* and *Shahpar* UAV Systems, into the Pakistan Army and PAF. It was 
claimed that the Burraq has been developed by Pakistan's state-owned NESCOM.






However, a closer examination of the photo of the Burraq released by the ISPR clearly
proves the fact that *it is merely a NESCOM-assembled CH-3, which has been developed 
by China Aerospace Science and Technology Corp (CASC) and AVIC Defense* as a 
multi-purpose medium-range UAV system suitable for battlefield reconnaissance, artillery 
fire adjustment, data relay and electronic warfare. *The CH-3 can be armed with twin 
laser-guided AR-1 anti-armour missiles, has a cruising speed of 220kph, 12-hour maximum 
endurance, and a 200km line-of-sight communications radius*.

*Pakistan's "Burraq" UCAV : Images from recent flights*










*Chinese CH-3 UCAV Poster displayed at a previous Zhuhai Air Show for comparison*






*Older image of CH-3 UCAV in flight testing in China*






Source: TRISHUL


----------



## Kompromat

Burraq is a lot larger than both Shahpar and CH-3.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Gessler said:


> On November 25, 2013, Pakistan’s ISPR announced that the Pakistan Army and
> PAF had inducted the first batch of ‘indigenously developed’ strategic UAVs, namely
> the *Burraq* and *Shahpar* UAV Systems, into the Pakistan Army and PAF. It was
> claimed that the Burraq has been developed by Pakistan's state-owned NESCOM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, a closer examination of the photo of the Burraq released by the ISPR clearly
> proves the fact that *it is merely a NESCOM-assembled CH-3, which has been developed
> by China Aerospace Science and Technology Corp (CASC) and AVIC Defense* as a
> multi-purpose medium-range UAV system suitable for battlefield reconnaissance, artillery
> fire adjustment, data relay and electronic warfare. *The CH-3 can be armed with twin
> laser-guided AR-1 anti-armour missiles, has a cruising speed of 220kph, 12-hour maximum
> endurance, and a 200km line-of-sight communications radius*.
> 
> *Pakistan's "Burraq" UCAV : Images from recent flights*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Chinese CH-3 UCAV Poster displayed at a previous Zhuhai Air Show for comparison*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Older image of CH-3 UCAV in flight testing in China*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: TRISHUL



Lol.. Dude Burraq is much bigger than CH-3.. Heck even Shahpar is bigger and has "similiarities" in "design" to the CH-3:


*SHAHPAR UAV:*
















P.S: Tht pics u posted isnt "Burraq UCAV"...


----------



## IceCold

Gessler said:


> On November 25, 2013, Pakistan’s ISPR announced that the Pakistan Army and
> PAF had inducted the first batch of ‘indigenously developed’ strategic UAVs, namely
> the *Burraq* and *Shahpar* UAV Systems, into the Pakistan Army and PAF. It was
> claimed that the Burraq has been developed by Pakistan's state-owned NESCOM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, a closer examination of the photo of the Burraq released by the ISPR clearly
> proves the fact that *it is merely a NESCOM-assembled CH-3, which has been developed
> by China Aerospace Science and Technology Corp (CASC) and AVIC Defense* as a
> multi-purpose medium-range UAV system suitable for battlefield reconnaissance, artillery
> fire adjustment, data relay and electronic warfare. *The CH-3 can be armed with twin
> laser-guided AR-1 anti-armour missiles, has a cruising speed of 220kph, 12-hour maximum
> endurance, and a 200km line-of-sight communications radius*.
> 
> *Pakistan's "Burraq" UCAV : Images from recent flights*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Chinese CH-3 UCAV Poster displayed at a previous Zhuhai Air Show for comparison*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Older image of CH-3 UCAV in flight testing in China*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: TRISHUL


None of the quoted is Burraq. Burraq is completely different with a round shape. CH-3 is more comparable to Shahpar but than gain Shahpar does not seem to have hard points while CH-3 does which shows that they are completely different systems although they might resemble somewhat same

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## Nishan_101

PN along with PAF needs to buy them in big numbers from PAC and GIDS... PN should buy at least 11 Burraq and 11 Shahpar UAVs in coming 3 years time. So that they can keep an eye on its teritorial waters 24/7... and cheaply too and no need of MPA all the time in air..


----------



## razgriz19

Arsalan said:


> we are using Baktar Shikan variant with our Cobra Gun Ships helicopters, they are also not stationary platforms so this cant be the reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/variants-of-baktar-shikan-missiles.68082/
> 
> also at:
> HJ-8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 
cobra also has to remain stationary or at least move in a straight line after firing the missile, and till the missile hit its target.
that's the problem with wire guided missile.

you can see it here


----------



## farhan_9909

CH-3 is more like Shahpar

Burraq might be based on Ch-3 but is certainly alot more bigger than CH-3.

CH-3 is more like Shahpar

Burraq might be based on Ch-3 but is certainly alot more bigger than CH-3.


----------



## Cyberian

Mubarrak to all Pakistani brothers and sisters.

A great achievement indeed.

Pakistan Zindabad


----------



## Kompromat

SUPARCO said:


> Mubarrak to all Pakistani brothers and sisters.
> 
> A great achievement indeed.
> 
> Pakistan Zindabad




Now we need a better com link and a GPS system, then we can roll them wherever we want


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Didnt know such small UAVs can carry such payload. Rustom 1 should be armed too, possibly.






Rustom 1 has similar design.

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## Gessler

IceCold said:


> Burraq is completely different with a round shape



The scale model here carried by the officers doesn't seem to be a "round shape". It looks
exactly like CH-3.


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Weaponized version certainly adds to the Surveillance capacity of Pakistani forces and now they can patrol mountainous regions more vigorously.


Such a item would be ideal to patrol Baluchistan Unsupervised areas. 
Keep an eye out for the mountain areas where Military outposts needs constant surveillance.


May be keep few of these birds over highways were suspected Terrorist may attempt to make a run out of city 

Great to see 2 Missiles on these as these Missiles can knock out any small escape vehicle with precision.

Congrats to the new birds in force


----------



## Kompromat

Gessler said:


> The scale model here carried by the officers doesn't seem to be a "round shape". It looks
> exactly like CH-3.




So the models are standards of perfection now?


----------



## Gessler

Aeronaut said:


> So the models are standards of perfection now?



I didn't get you..? Why would PAF officers handle a model of a CH-3 lookalike if
the UAV in question, Burraq, looks completely different?


----------



## AlpErTunga

Oh, it is my namesake, Burak. I wish it helps Pakistani brothers on duty.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> Didnt know such small UAVs can carry such payload. Rustom 1 should be armed too, possibly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustom 1 has similar design.



lmao.. have you seen a clearer pic of Burraq? as for rustom shustom.. kid first produce a uav with respectable range and take this toy story to ur indian threads... this thread has nothing to do with india...

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Gessler said:


> The scale model here carried by the officers doesn't seem to be a "round shape". It looks
> exactly like CH-3.



Much bigger wings... bigger front canard shaped wing... Bigger propeller .. rounder shape... and much bigger size... no specs released.... but hey looks like a CH-3..

Typical jealous lil indian trolls..

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## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> lmao.. have you seen a clearer pic of Burraq? as for rustom shustom.. kid first produce a uav with respectable range and take this toy story to ur indian threads... this thread has nothing to do with india...



What range? CH-3, Rustom have very similar range.














> story to ur indian threads... this thread has nothing to do with india...



Rich coming from you. You constantly put Pakistan stuff in Indian related threads. 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Much bigger wings... bigger front canard shaped wing... Bigger propeller .. rounder shape... and much bigger size... no specs released.... but hey looks like a CH-3..
> 
> Typical jealous lil indian trolls..




Jealous what, this design is elementary. Done by many people.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> What range? CH-3, Rustom have very similar range.



*First develop it... and induct it.. than cry abt it.. *



> Rich coming from you. You constantly put Pakistan stuff in Indian related threads.



I did post 1 post... couldnt delete it.. whats ur excuse?




> Jealous what, this design is elementary. Done by many people.



Might be.. but even "elementary" is too hard for india... 

@Aeronaut

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## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *First develop it... and induct it.. than cry abt it.. *




The thing is developed, it's been flown and tested like I dont know how many times. It's basically ready, but the whole purpose of that UAV wasn't to give it the armed forces, but a tech demo for Rustom-H. It's elementary, stepping stone to more advanced products.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> The thing is developed and tested like I dont know how many times. It's basically ready, but the whole purpose of that UAV wasn't to give it the armed forces, but a tech demo for Rustom-H. It's elementary, stepping stone to more advanced products.



Lol.. what a freakin excuse..


----------



## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lol.. what a freakin excuse..




Only if it was an excuse. This was well know since 2009.



> The technology demonstrator is based on an American Rutan Long-EZ airframe, and is powered by a 160hp Lycoming O-320 engine. The Rustom-1 prototype first took to the air at Hosur Airfield on 16 October 2010 during a 12 minute flight.



Aero India: the DRDO displayed the Rustom-1 MALE UAV





> India’s ambitious Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) programme received a major boost when the second flight of the Rustom-1 technology demonstrator UAV was conducted successfully at the facility of Taneja Aerospace & Aviation Limited at Hosur in Tamil Nadu, south of Bengaluru. The test flight of the second Rustom-1 prototype lasted 30 minutes. The Rustom-1 is designed to have an endurance capability of 12 to 15 hours, to fly at an altitude of 25,000 feet and carry a payload of 75 kg. The Rustom-1 is a technology feeder programme for the proposed Rustom-H Medium Altitude Long Endurance (MALE) UAV which is yet to fly.



DRDO’s Rustom-1 Test Flown » Indian Defence Review




> The Rustom-1 is a technology feeder programme (based on the NAL LCRA) for the more capableRustom-H medium altitude long endurance (MALE) UAV that hasn't flown yet. The photograph above is from the failed first flight last year.



Livefist: India's Rustom-1 UAV Makes "First Flight" Again, This Time Successfully [UPDATED]


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> Only if it was an excuse. This was well know since 2009.
> 
> 
> 
> Aero India: the DRDO displayed the Rustom-1 MALE UAV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DRDO’s Rustom-1 Test Flown » Indian Defence Review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Livefist: India's Rustom-1 UAV Makes "First Flight" Again, This Time Successfully [UPDATED]




Lmao.. test flights,displays ? lol

Atleast induct a simple MALE or even a small tactical indian made UAV..


----------



## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lmao.. test flights,displays ? lol
> 
> Atleast induct a simple MALE or even a small tactical indian made UAV..




Instead of reading the title, read the content. What did it say? That UAV is a tech demo, feeder program from the very start. It was never intended to be given to any branch of the military.

The design is elementary, India is making more capable UAVs.


----------



## Kompromat

*ANY Further off-topics will draw infractions.*


*BACK TO TOPIC!*

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## IceCold

Gessler said:


> The scale model here carried by the officers doesn't seem to be a "round shape". It looks
> exactly like CH-3.




From Sir Fatman's Post, article from Farhan Bokhari:

The 470-kg medium-range Shahpar is produced by Pakistan's Global Industrial & Defence Solutions (GIDS) *but bears more than a passing resemblance to the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) CH-3*. It was reported in 2010 that China was preparing to deliver 20 systems, along with the CASC FT-5 65 kg-class 'small diameter bomb', to Pakistan in 2011.


----------



## razgriz19

Burraq is CH-3.









this is for people who are saying CH-3 is small compare to burraq. It is'nt.

another Ch-3












And this is burraq

see the similarities?

same landing gear, antenna right before the intake, little intake on top as well, and also an antenna behind the nose gear.
Even the camo is same!

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## Arsalan

razgriz19 said:


> cobra also has to remain stationary or at least move in a straight line after firing the missile, and till the missile hit its target.
> that's the problem with wire guided missile.
> 
> you can see it here



agreed, however same technique may be applied for firing Baktar Shikan from UAV, moving is straight line.
Nonetheless Pakistan have also been rumored to be following UMTAS from turkey and probably a UAV version as well.


----------



## Kompromat

Arsalan said:


> agreed, however same technique may be applied for firing Baktar Shikan from UAV, moving is straight line.
> Nonetheless Pakistan have also been rumored to be following UMTAS from turkey and probably a UAV version as well.



Last one.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

razgriz19 said:


> Burraq is CH-3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is for people who are saying CH-3 is small compare to burraq. It is'nt.
> 
> another Ch-3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is burraq
> 
> see the similarities?
> 
> same landing gear, antenna right before the intake, little intake on top as well, and also an antenna behind the nose gear.
> Even the camo is same!




Sir ji... watch it carefully... the shape n size of the body...



Aeronaut said:


> Last one.




Bhai ji any credible source or something?


----------



## Kompromat

@DESERT FIGHTER | You don't remember recent news about Pakistan looking into cirit and UMTAS?

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## hussain0216

Look at the CH-3 with the chinese guy standing next to it, it reaches up to chect height

Look at the Burraq with the door in the back ground

The Burraq is much bigger unless the chinese guy is enourmous

The issue isnt if Pakistan has these platforms its when these platforms will become operational

For example we have the JF 17 but it is still a few years away when all the various weapons etc will become intergrated so it becomesan effective plane

Same with these drones we need them urgently and armed right away, we need them to patrol baluchistan and our borders with afghanistan as soon as possible & we need lots of them


----------



## razgriz19

hussain0216 said:


> Look at the CH-3 with the chinese guy standing next to it, it reaches up to chect height
> 
> Look at the Burraq with the door in the back ground
> 
> The Burraq is much bigger unless the chinese guy is enourmous
> 
> The issue isnt if Pakistan has these platforms its when these platforms will become operational
> 
> For example we have the JF 17 but it is still a few years away when all the various weapons etc will become intergrated so it becomesan effective plane
> 
> Same with these drones we need them urgently and armed right away, we need them to patrol baluchistan and our borders with afghanistan as soon as possible & we need lots of them



I dont want to argue but here you go








the first burraq in the picture can't be used for comparison as its too close to the camera, obviously it would look big.


----------



## farhan_9909

Burraq UCAV's

Ready and operational

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## [--Leo--]

Pakistan should go for stealth drone for ground attacks .........drone can be use for Airborne early warning raddar and they can spent more time in the air .........that is dreams i watch with open eyes ...............hehehehehe first step in drone tech is good congrass pakistan


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## Basel

Pakistan need long endurance stealth UCAV so they can be integrated in network and can be force multiplier.


----------



## Kompromat

@Basel l Whats needed is 'cash'.

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## Basel

@Aeronaut you are right, but we have to do some thing to make sure we don't allow air dominance, because when they will get that they will make things very difficult for us.

Further, we must look what can we built and try to get tech through friendly nations in west, a UAV in class of Global Hawk is a need but with capacity to track target and engage them with sharing data with other air, ground and sea assets, if we can have this type of very high altitude flying senor fused net centric UAV than our low tech assets like JF-17s & F-22Ps will be in much better position to handle high tech enemy assets like Super Sokhois & Kolkata Class ships.


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## Kompromat

@Basel l I know, unmanned platforms will be great multiplyers in future warfare. We can develop or acquire technology, provided we have the money.

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## Basel

@Aeronaut you are right again. I have question can we tweak current UAVs to track and share data with our air defense assets like JF-17s & SPADA 2000 so they don't have to activate their radars and remain bit stealthy and it can also increase the strike envelope of the JF-17s specially with weapons which have longer ranges then its radar.


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## Kompromat

@Basel l Pakistan has its own datalink so yes, its possible.

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## Basel

@Aeronaut I think by using current UAVs like that we can reduce the threat of their Super Sokhois, Rafaels and Mig-29Ks because if JF-17 can carry a weapon which can hit target 240 kms away and receive targeting data from a ahead high flying UAV for air to air, air to sea, air to ground targets than it will change a lot in warfare in South Asia.

PA can handle IA, but to handle IAF & IN, PAF & PN need all innovation we can come up in this money crunch time.

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## BATMAN

Not good omen for terrorists... i wonder now, who is going to pay for terrorist setup while they are sitting in Kabul most of the time!

I expect, handlers will slowly get rid of terrorists and find new ways to stir trouble.


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## Water Car Engineer

identical


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## A.Rafay

Water Car Engineer said:


> identical



How can you explain this thing??


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## BATMAN

Is this hardpoint underneath the wing?


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## HRK

BATMAN said:


> Is this hardpoint underneath the wing?



this pic is of Chiness UAV which is an armed drone.....


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## Water Car Engineer

A.Rafay said:


> How can you explain this thing??




What thing?

I think what you're getting at is already explained by razgriz19.

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## Shadow_Hunter

Basel said:


> @Aeronaut I think by using current UAVs like that we can reduce the threat of their Super Sokhois, Rafaels and Mig-29Ks because if JF-17 can carry a weapon which can hit target 240 kms away and receive targeting data from a ahead high flying UAV for air to air, air to sea, air to ground targets than it will change a lot in warfare in South Asia.
> 
> PA can handle IA, but to handle IAF & IN, PAF & PN need all innovation we can come up in this money crunch time.



The kill probability of a missile at such a high range will be pathetic. Not to mention if you want to do something like that, your UAV will have to carry an air to air radar, a very big one, to guide a missile at such long distances, Pakistan doesn't has such radars even for its frontline fighters. Even if it carries such a radar, it will be easily caught by the fighter RWR long before the fighter is itself caught by the UAV's radar and the UAV itself will be shot down. If UAV were any good in this role, people would already be using them. Instead world continues to rely on AWACS.

In short, using UAV against IAF fighters is pure fantasy.


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## BATMAN

BQI= Buraq blk1
13=2013
1=?? (probably) type
08=Serial/production number

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## BATMAN

This clearly looks like Burraq, minus hard-points which seems to be detachable.





This model (in hands) surely confirms its an armed drone.


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## razgriz19

A.Rafay said:


> How can you explain this thing??



to be honest, the picture is distorted.
Pakistani media is the worst when it comes to defence

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## arushbhai

Shadow_Hunter said:


> The kill probability of a missile at such a high range will be pathetic. Not to mention if you want to do something like that, your UAV will have to carry an air to air radar, a very big one, to guide a missile at such long distances, Pakistan doesn't has such radars even for its frontline fighters. Even if it carries such a radar, it will be easily caught by the fighter RWR long before the fighter is itself caught by the UAV's radar and the UAV itself will be shot down. If UAV were any good in this role, people would already be using them. Instead world continues to rely on AWACS.
> 
> In short, using UAV against IAF fighters is pure fantasy.


Drones around the world, specially in Pakistan are not meant for offensive air strikes. They are meant to give infantry air support. Thats the main role of drones anywhere in the world. Even United states has just started experimenting drones for the purpose of dog fights, carrier landings, etc. so not sure why you think Pakistan will be sending its drone fleet to fight indian fighter jets.

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## TaimiKhan

Guys, just to get it clarified. Shahpur and Burraq are of the same design, very very similar, but the dimensions of both are different and you can notice slight design change in their shapes / curves. Shahpur is small when compared to Burraq. Shahpur is more like for reconnaissance role, can be put in the same category as Falco but with some differences in performance parameters.

While Burraq is a UCAV based on the Chinese CH-3, but with some Pak / western toys. Engine is western, communication system would most probably be of Pak origin, the electro optical pod also seems to be Pak made Zumr-II showcased at recent IDEX-2013 having day/night capability with laser range finder and designator built in, but real origin or from the technology was gotten and how much of it still not known.

And it seems both the systems would be and have been inducted by the Army. PAF will stick with Falco UAV in their tactical UAV role, while Shahpar will do the tactical UAV job in the Army. Don't think PAF is for now inducting any UCAV.

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## Rafi

*Guo said that Pakistan had already purchased several CH-3 drones, but those have been now upgraded to CH-4 capability due to a service agreement they'd hatched together.

The latest CH-4 on display can be used for reconnaissance and combat, carries up to four precision-guided bombs, can reach an altitude of eight kilometers, has a range of 3,500 kilometers, and fly for up to 30 hours depending on how heavy a payload it is carrying.*
*
The plot thickens 

China seeks drone buyers in developing countries | GlobalPost*

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## Basel

> The kill probability of a missile at such a high range will be pathetic. Not to mention if you want to do something like that, your UAV will have to carry an air to air radar, a very big one, to guide a missile at such long distances, Pakistan doesn't has such radars even for its frontline fighters. Even if it carries such a radar, it will be easily caught by the fighter RWR long before the fighter is itself caught by the UAV's radar and the UAV itself will be shot down. If UAV were any good in this role, people would already be using them. Instead world continues to rely on AWACS.
> 
> In short, using UAV against IAF fighters is pure fantasy.



Even now Pakistan can do that and your Navy will be in deep trouble because Scan Eagle UAV can be used for target acquisition and CM-400AKG can be guided by that because it carries multiple seeker as per requirement and China is also working on similar net centric warfare system in which all types of UAVs and Satellites will be sharing data and even US is very concerned about that.

Pakistan can use decoys as trap to high light CBGs air defense capacity and overwhelm their capacity, Pakistan is making many things which are under estimated or under the radar. Pakistani coastal defense is also being upgraded and it may be able to hit targets upto 600 kms.


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## Shadow_Hunter

Basel said:


> Even now Pakistan can do that and your Navy will be in deep trouble because Scan Eagle UAV can be used for target acquisition and CM-400AKG can be guided by that because it carries multiple seeker as per requirement and China is also working on similar net centric warfare system in which all types of UAVs and Satellites will be sharing data and even US is very concerned about that.
> 
> Pakistan can use decoys as trap to high light CBGs air defense capacity and overwhelm their capacity, Pakistan is making many things which are under estimated or under the radar. Pakistani coastal defense is also being upgraded and it may be able to hit targets upto 600 kms.



Please ensure that you can read english well before replying to my post. I clearly said using UAVs against IAF is pure fantasy. I don't understand why you are talking about the navy here.

PS: The second paragraph of your post is also pure fantasy.

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## Basel

@Shadow Hunter: No, buddy its not, you don't know what I know trust me, you don't know Pakistanis and their potential. 

And go read about Scan Eagle how small it is and how long endurance it has. Your CBG Radars will find it hard to detect if it fly low.

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## Shadow_Hunter

Basel said:


> @Shadow Hunter: No, buddy its not, you don't know what I know trust me, you don't know Pakistanis and their potential.
> 
> And go read about Scan Eagle how small it is and how long endurance it has. Your CBG Radars will find it hard to detect if it fly low.



Ok.............

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## Basel

@Shadow Hunter: I think you should read those study reports which have made US Navy concerned about rise of China, it clearly said why UAVs will be a big headache to US Navy. Low / High tech UAVs will play important role in future warfare.

Also China have provided access to Satellites and their equivalent to GPS to Pakistan do u think they will not provide us access to their new satellite based radar and other stuff. Pakistan is their Israel and India should understand that to defend Israel to which extent US can go.

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## DANGER-ZONE

BATMAN said:


> BQI= Buraq blk1
> 13=2013
> 1=?? (probably) type
> 08=Serial/production number



The FLIR is same as Shahper ! I've been too close to Shehper for 3 days at IDEAS'12.
But by looking at the FLIR one can compare both drones, Burraq is no doubt larger than Shahper. 
BTW when i say Buraq its means CH-3 with TOT .... Great to see Pakistan cant even make an armed drone on its own.

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## DANGER-ZONE

BATMAN said:


> This clearly looks like Burraq, minus hard-points which seems to be detachable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This model (in hands) surely confirms its an armed drone.



Even the Color scheme is same. Of course hard points are detachable, just look at the real Chinese CH-3 pictures.

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## The Deterrent

TaimiKhan said:


> Guys, just to get it clarified. Shahpur and Burraq are of the same design, very very similar, but the dimensions of both are different and you can notice slight design change in their shapes / curves. Shahpur is small when compared to Burraq. Shahpur is more like for reconnaissance role, can be put in the same category as Falco but with some differences in performance parameters.
> 
> While Burraq is a UCAV based on the Chinese CH-3, but with some Pak / western toys. Engine is western, communication system would most probably be of Pak origin, the electro optical pod also seems to be Pak made Zumr-II showcased at recent IDEX-2013 having day/night capability with laser range finder and designator built in, but real origin or from the technology was gotten and how much of it still not known.
> 
> And it seems both the systems would be and have been inducted by the Army. PAF will stick with Falco UAV in their tactical UAV role, while Shahpar will do the tactical UAV job in the Army. Don't think PAF is for now inducting any UCAV.



To add to that, not only the avionics have been locally developed, but also the armament (still in development and testing phase).

P.S. PAF will operate Burraq UCAV and PA will operate Shahpur UAV.

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## HRK

AhaseebA said:


> P.S. PAF will operate Burraq UCAV and PA will operate Shahpur UAV.



Any particular reason to prefer one design over the other for different services .... like technology advantage, design characteristic (though both look same) .... ease of maintenance ...etc. ???


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## The Deterrent

HRK said:


> Any particular reason to prefer one design over the other for different services .... like technology advantage, design characteristic (though both look same) .... ease of maintenance ...etc. ???



Not really. Looks aside (because both follow the contemporary design), but Burraq is way bigger and has more capabilities (range [although still limited by LOS radio-link], endurance, payload) than Shahpur. Besides since it is a UCAV, Burraq will be better put to use by the PAF.

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## The Deterrent

razgriz19 said:


> to be honest, the picture is distorted.
> Pakistani media is the worst when it comes to defence



 Remember a while back there was a similar distorted video of Ra'ad ALCM and everybody was like "it has become larger and fatter"


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## OrionHunter

Since apparently the Buraq is armed with laser guided missiles, I wonder if it would be used against the terrorists in Waziristhan etc? If yes, then Pakistan must ask the US of A to lay off and stop their drone strikes.


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## farhan_9909

So it is almost confirmed that Burraq is a modified ch-3 built in home with Pakistan subsystems

but still wondering why they rather went with the TOT since with in a similar timeperiod(from 2008 upto now),they could have develop one of their own.

Indigenous designing of a UCAV would have given pakistan alot more experience and we could had taken HALE UAV's projects in future


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## DESERT FIGHTER

BATMAN said:


> BQI= Buraq blk1
> 13=2013
> 1=?? (probably) type
> 08=Serial/production number



A modified Zumr-I (EP) multisensor turret? OR the regular one?

Zumr-I on Shahpar..

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## fatman17

*Pakistan Inducts Armed UAVs*
*

Nov. 25, 2013 - 03:31PM | 

By USMAN ANSARI *






*A Shahpar UAV is shown at the IDEAS2012 exhibition in November 2012 in Karachi. (Usman Ansari / Staff)*

*ISLAMABAD* — Pakistan today inducted into service two indigenous UAVs, one of which appears to be armed. The military has long sought the ability to strike targets more quickly after identification.
A press release by the military’s Inter Service Public Relations (ISPR) media branch stated Pakistan had inducted its first fleet of “indigenously developed Strategic Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs), namely Burraq and Shahpar UAV Systems” for the Army and the Air Force.

The ceremony was attended by the outgoing Army chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani; and retired Lt. Gen. Khalid Ahmed Kidwai, director General Strategic Plans Division (SPD), which overseas all aspects of Pakistan’s national deterrent.

Kayani was quoted as saying the UAVs would “substantially enhance” the military’s real time target acquisition capabilities.

According to Mansoor Ahmed from Quaid-e-Azam University’s Department of Defence and Strategic Studies, who specializes in Pakistan’s national deterrent and delivery program, the presence of Kidwai does not mean the UAVs have any non-conventional application.

“The [National Engineering and Scientific Commission ] comes under SPD, so he would be there,” he said.

NESCOM is a civilian run research-and-development organization that has designed a number of defense systems for the Pakistani military, including the Babur cruise and Shaheen ballistic missiles.
While the press release provided no other information, an accompanying photograph showed a model of a canard pusher UAV that appeared to be armed with two under-wing missiles.

Shahpar is a tactical canard pusher UAV that was developed by the Advance Engineering and Research Organisation, which is part of the state-owned Global Industrial & Defence Solutions (GIDS) conglomerate.

It was revealed to the public for the first time during IDEAS2012, Pakistan’s biannual defense exhibition, in November last year.

It was claimed to be an autonomous UAV with an endurance of seven hours and which could relay data in real time out to a range of 250 kilometers.

Observers have said the Burraq appears to be a Pakistani variant or development of the Chinese Rainbow CH-3 UCAV, but little else is known beyond speculation based on the CH-3’s specifications.

Former Pakistan Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail said additional information will be difficult to obtain for now because sources will be “wary about leaking what is considered confidential stuff.”

Reports that Pakistan was developing an armed UAV named Burraq date back to 2009. Analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said he first became aware of the existence of the Burraq some years ago when it was still in the design stages with NESCOM.

The two may be related, but he believes Burraq is armed and Shahpar unarmed.

“Shahpar can carry about a 50-kilogram payload and has around eight hours endurance. Burraq, based on CH-3 specs, would carry around a 100-kilogram payload and 12 hours endurance,” he said.

The given payload of the CH-3 is a pair of AR-1 missiles, or a pair of FT-5 small diameter bombs.
The ability of Pakistan to field an armed UAV has great benefits when faced with time-sensitive targets, he said.

“It is important in a sense that it greatly cuts the gap from detection to shoot,” he said.
Adding, “Earlier, once you detected something and wanted it taken out you had to pass on the imagery to higher ups, who had to approve and allocate resources like aircraft and by the time the aircraft got there the bad guys were long gone. Now detect, make decision, shoot and go home — all in same loop.”

He does not believe there is any real significance in the systems being named for use with both the Army and the Air Force, however, as “both have been operating their own UAV squadrons for a while now.”

“The Army has been using German EMT Luna X-2000 and the British [Meggitt] Banshee UAVs, while PAF as we know has a lot of faith in the Italian [Selex] Falco,” he added.

The Luna was also ordered by the Pakistan Navy in June 2012.

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## MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n

AhaseebA said:


> To add to that, not only the avionics have been locally developed, but also the armament (still in development and testing phase).
> 
> *P.S. PAF will operate Burraq UCAV and PA will operate Shahpur UAV.*



so this means that PakisTan army vvill still be calling P.a.F. to do a drone strike on those ttp pimps on behalf of Pak.army ... ?!


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

These birds would be great against Balouch idiots as well who hide and hit and run , these birds give us a great tactical advantage to finally hit these bast...ds where it hurts most

The part the best is the are equipped with 2 wonderful missiles , find the cancer , they take action in 10 minutes

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## Munir

According to the serial numbers the Shahpar is acitve since 2011 (SH 11-802) en Burraq (BQI-13-108) is accepted in service in 2013. It also tells us that there are already 8 batches of Shahpar inducted and Burraq is the first. Shahpar looks like aluminum build while Burraq is clearly composites...

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## Saifullah Sani

Pakistan Displays UAVs at Dubai Air Show 2013.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=329815403826645





Burraq and Shahpar UAV Systems in Pakistan Army




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=606634629374481





2 (75KG) Hard Points under wings


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## Riseup

Saifullah Sani said:


> Pakistan Displays UAVs at Dubai Air Show 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=329815403826645
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Burraq and Shahpar UAV Systems in Pakistan Army
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=606634629374481
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 (75KG) Hard Points under wings




Second video is not of burraq bellow is the picture of burraq and you can see 2 hard points







and burraq will look like with missiles


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## Ra'ad

Well Done Pakistan! 
Looking forward to better drones and better tech in the future.


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## Jf Thunder

as much as i have heard, it is armed or it is going to be armed with laser guided missiles, the Burraq drone i mean
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NESCOM_Burraq


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## Ra'ad

Jf Thunder said:


> as much as i have heard, it is armed or it is going to be armed with laser guided missiles, the Burraq drone i mean
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NESCOM_Burraq


isn't this falco?


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## Riseup

Ra'ad said:


> isn't this falco?


yes this is not Pic of Burraq


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## Jf Thunder

Riseup said:


> yes this is not Pic of Burraq


wow really? sorry about that, i will remove it then

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## Irfan Baloch

Shadow_Hunter said:


> Ok.............


I would have said, how old are you?

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## Nishan_101

I think PAC needs to produce it in huge numbers....


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## MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n

Irfan Baloch said:


> I would have said, how old are you?


is our burraq being used in NW-Operation Zarb-a-ada'b ?


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## Irfan Baloch

MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n said:


> is our burraq being used in NW-Operation Zarb-a-ada'b ?


Drones are secret technology and their use is mostly shrouded in mystery. I am talking about their miltiary applications. both the recce the attack roles.

coming to use of drones in our current military operations, you wont get an official afirmative from ISPR but defence analysts and retired military personnel have given hints about their use specially where the TTP leadership has suffered crippling losses due to very accurate and timely intelligence which was possible due to the drones.


are Buraqs being used? are they armed? are any other Pakistani or Chinese origin armed drones being used? we will not know and you can bet anything that there will be never a denial or confirmation from an official channel, unless there is some amateur camera footage of them engaging taliban. which again is very hard to prove because they will strike from heights that no amateur camera will be able to capture. 

which leaves us "web analysts" to speculate and theorize about the unkowns. if there is a documentary evidence backed up with photos and video with clear markings then its a different story then there is nothing left to argue or speculate.

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## Jango

Drones are being used...100% yes.

Now what kind of drones and armed drones or not, can't tell you that, partly because I don't "specifically" know, partly because it wouldn't be the right thing to say.

They have been used to control Arty fire, provide 24 hour recce, over the hill eyes etc.


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## FunkyGen

Fulcrum15 said:


> control Arty fire


How do they do that?


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## Ra'ad

MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n said:


> is our burraq being used in NW-Operation Zarb-a-*ada'b* ?


 That might mean: A respectful strike


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## MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n

Irfan Baloch said:


> Drones are secret technology and their use is mostly shrouded in mystery. I am talking about their miltiary applications. both the recce the attack roles.
> 
> coming to use of drones in our current military operations, you wont get an official afirmative from ISPR but defence analysts and retired military personnel have given hints about their use specially where the TTP leadership has suffered crippling losses due to very accurate and timely intelligence which was possible due to the drones.
> 
> 
> are Buraqs being used? are they armed? are any other Pakistani or Chinese origin armed drones being used? we will not know and you can bet anything that there will be never a denial or confirmation from an official channel, unless there is some amateur camera footage of them engaging taliban. which again is very hard to prove because they will strike from heights that no amateur camera will be able to capture.
> 
> which leaves us "web analysts" to speculate and theorize about the unkowns. if there is a documentary evidence backed up with photos and video with clear markings then its a different story then there is nothing left to argue or speculate.


so nice of you for your effort & time ... 



Irfan Baloch said:


> Drones are secret technology and their use is mostly shrouded in mystery. I am talking about their miltiary applications. both the recce the attack roles.
> 
> coming to use of drones in our current military operations, you wont get an official afirmative from ISPR but defence analysts and retired military personnel have given hints about their use specially where the TTP leadership has suffered crippling losses due to very accurate and timely intelligence which was possible due to the drones.
> 
> 
> are Buraqs being used? are they armed? are any other Pakistani or Chinese origin armed drones being used? we will not know and you can bet anything that there will be never a denial or confirmation from an official channel, unless there is some amateur camera footage of them engaging taliban. which again is very hard to prove because they will strike from heights that no amateur camera will be able to capture.
> 
> which leaves us "web analysts" to speculate and theorize about the unkowns. if there is a documentary evidence backed up with photos and video with clear markings then its a different story then there is nothing left to argue or speculate.


so nice of you for your effort & time ...


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## Interceptor2014

Have PN deployed these system for keeping close eye on the coast 247???


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## zahidiqbalrana

I think this is Chinese technology..


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## saima naaz

buraq start his work know we can destroy any terrorist and any enemy


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## black-hawk_101

How many Burraqs and Shahpar does PN has?


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## Irfan Baloch

black-hawk_101 said:


> How many Burraqs and Shahpar does PN has?


its 42

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## dilpakistani

why people are so bumped up about 'It's chienese technology' thing? How is that even important? Important is that we have this capability now... this very eagerly required capability to fight an un-conventional war in tribal area... how many soldiers could have lived if we had that earlier... how technology origin got significant here??? We have it in hand now and it will help us a lot... dot.


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## django

Is our UAV program more advanced than Iran's?


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## Pandora

django said:


> Is our UAV program more advanced than Iran's?



Iran has no UAV program. They only showcased duds and Airframes. At most they reverse engineering old American technology. They couldn't even replicate American stealth drone.

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## SOHEIL

django said:


> Is our UAV program more advanced than Iran's?











smuhs1 said:


> Iran has no UAV program. They only showcased duds and Airframes. At most they reverse engineering old American technology. They couldn't even replicate American stealth drone.



Cut the crap or i will answer in kind !!!


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## dilpakistani

this is what drones are capable of... look how precisely they have targeted the terrorists only and left women and children alone... Perfect weapon of terror for terrorist .... Burraq is good but we need better one...with at least one 30mm gun mounted on it


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## The Last of us

SOHEIL said:


> HA HA HA ... Iran's Mohajer-1 was the first UCAV used in a real combat ( 1980s )



I have replied to this troll in our UAV thread. Don't comment too much here it is not the right thread to educate these kids.


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## SurvivoR

All I can say to the Iranian posters is Nice pix  Good job Iranians... 

Have a question for you guys... Can you share info on the kills made by your UCAVs till date?


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## django

@SOHEIL @The Last of us
Gentleman..gentleman relax relax, I was merely asking a question which I did not know the answer too, Iran's UAV program may well be ahead of Pakistan's or may it not be I simply do not know , but please forgive me for being a bit skeptical of your nations dubious propaganda claims, after that so called 5 gen stealth fighter can you forgive me for being somewhat doubtful about your claims.kudos chaps.

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## Dazzler

Keep it to burraq ucav or else.

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## fatman17

*Pakistan's Own Drones*

*Islamabad Just Used Armed UAVs—Here's What It Means for the Region and World*
By Syed Fazl-e-Haider

*About the Author:*
SYED FAZL-E-HAIDER is a contributing analyst at the South Asia desk of Wikistrat. He is also a freelance columnist and author of several books, including the _Economic Development of Balochistan_
r

On September 7, Pakistan officially became the world’s ninth country to successfully develop an unmanned combat aerial vehicle, which it used in an operation against Taliban militants in the northwestern tribal area along the border with Afghanistan. Three militants died in the attack. Beyond furthering Pakistan’s fight against the Taliban, the Pakistani drone conveyed to Washington that the era of Washington’s own drone activities within Pakistan’s borders is drawing to a close.

The United States started its drone campaign against Islamist extremists in the country’s tribal areas in 2004. Since then, there have been hundreds of drone strikes on high-profile militants linked to al Qaeda and Taliban. The strikes have been effective insofar as they have killed many high-profile Taliban and al Qaeda militants in the country’s tribal region—for example, Hakimullah Mehsud, the chief of Pakistani Taliban, who was involved in the killing of thousands of innocent Pakistani citizens and died in 2013; and Hakimullah’s predecessor, Baitullah Mehsud, who died in 2009. As a result of these losses, the Pakistani Taliban, although not defeated, has come under serious strain.
The U.S. drone war, however, has long been unpopular and polarizing. Pakistan’s Islamist and right-wing political parties, including Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI), which heads a coalition government in Pakistan’s Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, have strongly condemned the program. PTI, which is led by former international cricket star Imran Khan, blocked NATO supply lines for months in 2013 in retaliation for the killing of Hakimullah Mehsud, just as the government was sitting down with the Pakistani Taliban for initial peace talks. The U.S. drone program was also unpopular under former General turned President Pervez Musharraf, but he was better able to ward off the opposition. As civilian politicians returned to the fray, first under Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani and later under current Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, the program became all the more politically untenable.

Islamabad first asked the United States to transfer armed drone technology to Islamabad during the Musharraf years, but the country did not make a formal request until 2009, when Gilani was in office. Sharif likewise formally asked the United States for the technology in 2013. The United States continuously refused, not wanting the know-how to proliferate. It was particularly apprehensive of Pakistan sharing highly classified information with its close ally China. And so Pakistan focused on its own drone program.

Pakistan’s efforts to build surveillance drones began in earnest in 2008, when the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) purchased Falco drones from Selex Galileo of Italy at a cost of $40 million. Since then, the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Islamabad has manufactured Falco in collaboration with the Italian firm. The PAF principally uses the drone for electronic surveillance and homeland security operations.

By March 2015, the country was ready to successfully test-fire its first homegrown Burraq armed with a new air-to-surface missile, named Barq (“Lightning”). Out of this program apparently came Burraq, which is believed to be based on the Falco–Selex Galileo technology. In Islamic traditions, Burraq is described as a creature from the heavens that carried Muhammad from Mecca to Jerusalem and back during Miraj, which is celebrated once a year by Muslims all over the world by spending the whole night in prayer. The earliest models of Burraq, a remotely operated aircraft, were capable only of surveillance and intelligence gathering and were used by the Pakistani military to track down militants. They are still part of the campaign, called Zarb-e-Azb, which was launched last year against militants in tribal areas and has severely disrupted their networks across the country and left over 3,500 dead.

In 2009, Pakistan started a program—a joint venture of the PAF and the National Engineering and Scientific Commission, a civilian defense research and development organization—to develop an armed version of Burraq. As in other Pakistani defense projects, China’s cooperation has been instrumental. In 2010, China sold Pakistan Chinese radar systems and the ShanDian-10 (SD-10) midrange homing missiles to equip Pakistan’s 250 JF-17 Thunder jets. The SD-10 is a radar-guided air-to-air missile that China developed in 2002. It is unclear how much Pakistan paid, but Islamabad had initially made a similar deal with the French firm Thales SA at a cost of $1.6 billion. Then the deal was canceled with Thales and Pakistan purchased the technology from China.

Throughout the development process, civilian players have also been key. Private drone firms, including East West Infiniti Private Ltd., Surveillance and Target Unmanned Aircraft (Satuma), Integrated Dynamics, and Global Industrial Defence Solutions, have already showed off a wide range of small and midsize reconnaissance drones in the arms fairs hosted from time to time by Islamabad. Meanwhile, state-owned aviation firms—including Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Air Weapons Complex, and National Development Complex—have played an important part in manufacturing armed drones.

By March 2015, the country was ready to successfully test-fire its first homegrown Burraq armed with a new air-to-surface missile, named Barq (“Lightning”), with pinpoint precision at an undisclosed location. And then this month, the country startled the world by targeting and killing at least three high-profile militants in its first drone attack in the tribal region along the Afghan border. With its all-weather capability and pinpoint accuracy, Burraq will truly be a force multiplier. It has the ability to fire missiles at both stationary and moving targets. Burraq is generally considered to have the combined features of both the U.S. Predator and the Chinese CASC Rainbow CH-3.

Having watched the decade-long U.S. drone campaign in the Af-Pak region, Pakistan is set to launch its own campaign, which it hopes will be more effective against militants in the tribal region. It is likely to try to use precise drone strikes to restrict the movements of Taliban insurgents. All the while, it will be able to conduct the campaign without the pressure of public resentment about violations of Pakistan’s territorial integrity, which the government can ill afford. To see how this might play out for the United States, it is worth remembering how Islamabad reacted to a NATO attack on a Pakistani military outpost that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers near the Afghanistan border in November 2011. Islamabad cut NATO supply lines and asked the United States to vacate the country’s Shamsi air base, which the United States had been using to launch drone attacks on militants in the country’s tribal areas. Similar moves could be in the offing.

Meanwhile, outside of Pakistan, the country’s entry into the drone club has triggered a race in South Asia. India has recently accelerated its homegrown unmanned aerial vehicle development program, known as the Rustom-2. It has reportedly expedited its work on weaponizing the Rustom-1 medium-altitude long-endurance UAV, which it wants to test-fire this year. The Indian government has apparently also approved the purchase of ten armed UAVs from Israel Aerospace Industries under a $400 million acquisition deal.

The international fallout from the program is thus worrying, but from a domestic defense point of view, Pakistan’s entry into the drone program is a phenomenal achievement. The fleet of armed drones has strengthened the nation’s muscle against both internal and external threats. Internally, the country faces a Taliban-led insurgency in its northwest and a separatist insurgency in its southwest. Externally, the country faces a volatile situation on both its eastern border with India and its western border with war-torn Afghanistan. With both armed and unarmed UAVs, the country can better monitor the situation on its borders and perform missions such as intelligence gathering and target detection and destruction.


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## SurvivoR

Request to members... Please keep it related to the title and constructive. 

Any update on how many Burraqs and Shahpurs inducted till date? How many more sorties has Burraq carried out since that first kill?


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## SSGcommandoPAK

Pakistan should upgrade the burraq and should make new variants of it like burraq 1 , burraq 2


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## JamD

New slick brochure of the UAVs of AWC : http://www.gids.com.pk/UAV.pdf

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## JamD



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## RAMPAGE

JamD said:


> View attachment 306796


@Stealth 

Resembles your work.


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## Dazzler



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## graphican

Dazzler said:


> View attachment 391051



Which missiles is it carrying? Is that Mizrak-U?


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## Areesh

graphican said:


> Which missiles is it carrying? Is that Mizrak-U?



Its barq. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barq

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## Dean Winchester

graphican said:


> Which missiles is it carrying? Is that Mizrak-U?


AR-1


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## JamD

Sulman Badshah said:


> Interesting
> looks like 2 hard point and manned option as well
> View attachment 391022


That just looks like a Rutan Vari EZ with the optional tanks and some go pros. Also that image does not look like from Pakistan. Not sure whether you were implying those things about the image or not.


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

I hope GIDS get a good shot at developing a MALE UAV (which it expressed interest in doing). It would be cool if we could get private sector collaboration on this front between GIDS and Denel Aviation or Paramount Group.

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## The Accountant

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I hope GIDS get a good shot at developing a MALE UAV (which it expressed interest in doing). It would be cool if we could get private sector collaboration on this front between GIDS and Denel Aviation or Paramount Group.



Can we equip this buraq with anti tank guided missiles ? Given long endurance and low operational cost these UAVs can be very effective if can be used in anti tank warfare furthermore they will also reduce some load


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

The Accountant said:


> Can we equip this buraq with anti tank guided missiles ? Given long endurance and low operational cost these UAVs can be very effective if can be used in anti tank warfare furthermore they will also reduce some load


The NESCOM Buraq is already armed with 2 ATGMs.

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## The Accountant

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The NESCOM Buraq is already armed with 2 ATGMs.


Are you tlking about barq? I am under the impression tha barq is just for small targets like vehicles ... may be i am wrong ...

Can you share a little more details on barq ... how effective it is against modern MBTs of india and its effective range ... furthermore being laser guide means someone has to light the target with laser ... is there any other lock down mechanism


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

The Accountant said:


> Are you tlking about barq? I am under the impression tha barq is just for small targets like vehicles ... may be i am wrong ...
> 
> Can you share a little more details on barq ... how effective it is against modern MBTs of india and its effective range ... furthermore being laser guide means someone has to light the target with laser ... is there any other lock down mechanism


The Barq is essentially the Chinese AR-1, which in turn is a modified HJ-10 ATGM. It has a similar weight and warhead size to the HJ-10 ATGM. For a semi-active laser-homing ATGM (e.g. AR-1), you need a laser designator source. One alternative is to have a terminal guidance seeker, like IIR or active mmW-radar. That'd be pricey though.

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## The Accountant

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The Barq is essentially the Chinese AR-1, which in turn is a modified HJ-10 ATGM. It has a similar weight and warhead size to the HJ-10 ATGM. For a semi-active laser-homing ATGM (e.g. AR-1), you need a laser designator source. One alternative is to have a terminal guidance seeker, like IIR or active mmW-radar. That'd be pricey though.



Great, good to know that ... By the way I am of the view that seeker and radar technology are the two areas where Pakistan needs to invest and excel ... this is the most demanding tech and it has multiple uses and we can always mordernize our existing missiles by developing and then changing the seekers (where ever possible) ... Furthermore, this tech is more talent intensive rather than captial intensive so we can train our engineers and in future it also have export potential because only handful of countries can develop reliable seekers ...

What is your view on that and is there any thought process or investment currently going on in that direction ? I know we have a radar manufacturing facility but as per my information facility is now not modernize and is limited to few techs only ...

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