# SHAHEEN III actual range 5000 KM ????



## Zarvan

According to a report submitted to US Senate by their National Air and Space Intelligence Center (NASIC) , the actual range of Pakistan's Shaheen-3 missile is 5000 Km. The organization has access to long range radars and plethora of spy satellites with the added bonus of having experience of building missiles since 1950s,so their data and statement is as credible as it gets.
Pakistan is deliberately firing the missile at a lower range of 2750 Kilometres.
The reason of keeping the range lower is to have a higher speed. The fuel which could carry the missile to greater distance, is being used in giving the missile a higher velocity, specially when it re-enters the atmosphere.

https://www.facebook.com/**********...6691342443057/908371975941654/?type=3&theater

Reactions: Like Like:
18


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

I wouldnt be surprised; Pakistan Military likes to hide it's capabilities until there is a perfect time to showcase it.

Reactions: Like Like:
22


----------



## Chauvinist

Ssshhhhhh..!!! Is se Khittay main taqat k adam istehkaam ka khatra ho skta hai.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
10


----------



## Sparkle229

Army should not reveal its important capabilities so as to surprise the enemy with a big bang

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Gentelman

The range is deliberately kept lower 300-500km not 2k-3k km...
The US establishment is just trying to piss congress off and making Pakistan's case difficult.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Just checked the NASIC's Ballistic and Cruise Missile Threat report from 2013

It makes no mention of Shaheen 3 at all

Rather it has stated Babur has a range of 350 KM

http://fas.org/programs/ssp/nukes/nuclearweapons/NASIC2013_050813.pdf

If what is being quoted in the unavailable facebook link is newer version of NASIC report

please provide the link as well.

Besides a lower range actually gives lesser speed.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Viny

Yes range could be 5000+ if you take it 3000+ kms close to the target and fire it 

One need to understand, physics plays and important role, the coefficient of burn x fuel is not the only calculation to get the range, weight, wind direction, design and playload are other major factors too. 

Given that even small achievements are boasted I would not be surprised is 2750 is extended range of S3.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Syed_Adeel

Syama Ayas said:


> Just checked the NASIC's Ballistic and Cruise Missile Threat report from 2013
> 
> It makes no mention of Shaheen 3 at all
> 
> Rather it has stated Babur has a range of 350 KM
> 
> http://fas.org/programs/ssp/nukes/nuclearweapons/NASIC2013_050813.pdf
> 
> If what is being quoted in the unavailable facebook link is newer version of NASIC report
> 
> please provide the link as well.
> 
> Besides a lower range actually gives lesser speed.


Sir Shaheen 3 was not developed and tested at that time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Syed_Adeel said:


> Sir Shaheen 3 was not developed and tested at that time.


Hence I have asked for newer version of report be provided by the OP

The facebook source is inaccessible.


----------



## R Wing

Viny said:


> Yes range could be 5000+ if you take it 3000+ kms close to the target and fire it
> 
> One need to understand, physics plays and important role, the coefficient of burn x fuel is not the only calculation to get the range, weight, wind direction, design and playload are other major factors too.
> 
> Given that even small achievements are boasted I would not be surprised is 2750 is extended range of S3.



A lot of very important achievements, especially the finer points, are as a rule usually not shared by GHQ as a larger policy of op-sec and strategic perception management. I personally know this to be true for a number of previous achievements, so I am assuming the same applies here. Though I have no way of being sure with this particular example, I wouldn't be surprised if Shaheen III's range is more than the stated range.

I've also heard talk of "Taimur" --- an ICBM with a 7000+ range. Not sure if it's just a rumor or true...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Blue Marlin

view from @34.40

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## muhammadali233

Blue Marlin said:


> view from @34.40


@39:30 speechless ?


----------



## v9s

No it is not. You don't go from 1500KM to 5000KM. The NASIC report was probably hyped up to make it seem as if Pakistan was an upcoming threat, much like the Chinese Sub managing to pop up near a US aircraft carrier years back.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan

A hyped up news with very little truth in it. Now anyone following recent developments in the the Geo-political situation can very well understand why it was hyped up.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## shah1398

Viny said:


> Yes range could be 5000+ if you take it 3000+ kms close to the target and fire it
> 
> One need to understand, physics plays and important role, the coefficient of burn x fuel is not the only calculation to get the range, weight, wind direction, design and playload are other major factors too.
> 
> Given that even small achievements are boasted I would not be surprised is 2750 is extended range of S3.



5000 or not, our all moves are mainly India specific and even right now our missiles cover whole of India. So no worries for us at all.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## v9s

The post was made by Pakistan Affairs on facebook - a page that posts mostly unverified and incomplete stories to fool the gullible masses.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Green Angel

SHAHEEN 3 Range is around 3000kms....

Enough for India and Israel.....


----------



## BetterPakistan

It could be true because Pakistan possessed nuclear weapons in 1984 but tested it in 1998 at the RIGHT TIME. So i feel its true and there could be another missiles with larger range also.


----------



## CorporateAffairs

China has ICBMs ranging 13000 kms.
If chinese have, Pak automatically has them.
Hence shaheen range is not an issue.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Stealth

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> I wouldnt be surprised; Pakistan Military likes to hide it's capabilities until there is a perfect time to showcase it.



What is the perfect time by the way ?? when Alien fire ICBM from chaand sitaray ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Green Angel said:


> SHAHEEN 3 Range is around 3000kms....
> 
> Enough for India and Israel.....


SHAHEEN 3 would need a range of 4100 KM to be launched from any part of Pakistan and still reach any part of India.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## v9s

CorporateAffairs said:


> China has ICBMs ranging 13000 kms.
> If chinese have, Pak automatically has them.
> Hence shaheen range is not an issue.



Russia has ICBMs ranging 13000kms.

If Russia has, India automatically has them too.

AGNI range not an issue

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Tripoli

Syama Ayas said:


> SHAHEEN 3 would need a range of 4100 to be launched from any part of Pakistan and still reach any part of India.











Viny said:


> Yes range could be 5000+ if you take it 3000+ kms close to the target and fire it
> 
> One need to understand, physics plays and important role, the coefficient of burn x fuel is not the only calculation to get the range, weight, wind direction, design and playload are other major factors too.
> 
> Given that even small achievements are boasted I would not be surprised is 2750 is extended range of S3.


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Tripoli said:


>



Read my post again and this time try to understand.

Besides, the map posted doesn't not include Indira Point within the range


----------



## wasileo80

Shaheen III range is not more than 3500 Km (2000 Miles). It lies between 3000- 3500. 
5000 Km is an over estimation.


----------



## war&peace

Chauvinist said:


> Ssshhhhhh..!!! Is se Khittay main taqat k adam istehkaam ka khatra ho skta hai.


OMG...Dictionary please


----------



## Chauvinist

war&peace said:


> OMG...Dictionary please


Lol..Really you didn't understand??  It means it can cause an imbalance of power in the region.


----------



## Zarvan

Stealth said:


> What is the perfect time by the way ?? when Alien fire ICBM from chaand sitaray ?


First its range is not less than 3500 KM. Secondly their are massive rumours going on in Army about an ICBM getting tested soon.


----------



## war&peace

Even the rudimentary knowledge of ballistics will tell you that there is no fixed range...not a constant number 2750 km. It depends on the mainly on two factors (1) payload/warhead capacity (2) the trajectory followed by.
Range is inversely proportional to the weight of the payload/warhead...i.e. a decrease in the weight of payload will result in a corresponding increase in the range given all other parameters are kept constant i.e. fuel, route or trajectory.
Trajectory of the ballistic missiles is much longer than the range (range is the displacment or direct distance between the launching point and the target/destination). Shaheen III was designed to account for any missile defence system that enemy i.e. India may apply thus it can alter its course and vary the speed to avoid them and still making sure that it reaches 2750 km from its launch point. Furthermore Shaheen-III is extremely high speed missile and reaches upwards of M=10 during the flight and even higher in the re-entry phase. Also the rocket motors were designed to support MIRV load capacities which is underdevelopment and will either be called Shaheen IV or a separate series (not HATF). Thus if SIII is launch with a lighter warhead on a trajectory with minimal obstructions i.e. missile defence shields etc, it can reach much farther than the stated range (more than double) 



Zarvan said:


> First its range is not less than 3500 KM. Secondly their are massive rumours going on in Army about an ICBM getting tested soon.


I see MIRV test soon more plausible than ICBM.
Pakistan needs MIRV to disspel any misconception arising from India's acquistion of missile defence system in near future while ICBM may undermine our political and economic position. ICBM is technically possible and I think the working model had been developed a few years ago with a combination of solid boosters strapped on to a liquid fuel rocket.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kompromat

We strongly deny this assessment, the Shaheen-III cannot go an inch beyond the stated range. @Hyperion @Oscar

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

In all probability, this news is very true. When it was announced pre-May 1998 that Pakistan was a nuclear weapons state, everyone laughed and scoffed at the idea. The indians claimed that it was impossible for us Pakistanis to have nukes, even with Chinese assistance. Yet we achieved that impossibility. Pakistan does at the very least have ICBM capability or 5000+ kms range missiles but cannot publicly disclose this as the neocons and indians will claim we are going to destroy the world and we would face a massive international outcry and backlash. Especially in light of the fact we have been developing H-bombs and thermonuclear weapons since 2011:


http://isis-online.org/isis-reports...g-nuclear-weapons-time-for-pakistan-to-rever/

Now with those 5000 km+ missiles and H-bombs and thermo-nukes, the indian threat and threats from any other foreign powers have well and truly been neutralized. Least the tragedy of Iraq and Afghanistan befalls us.


----------



## war&peace

Chauvinist said:


> Lol..Really you didn't understand??  It means it can cause an imbalance of power in the region.


I understood most...I think but the mention of Adam (a Prohpet's name) stumped me and I couldn't make sense out of it  
Thanks for clarification



Horus said:


> We strongly deny this assessment, the Shaheen-III cannot go an inch beyond the stated range. @Hyperion @Oscar


And I totally agree with you

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 313baberali

Zarvan said:


> 5000 Km


Well definitely Pak have long range missiles compare to tested ones,Proof is whenever in the recent past india test its latest missile,Pak responce was according to the new challenges.We got news years back from persons working in labs,that Guys have long range missiles.But the bad news is *india recent interceptor missiles test,which is really threatening National security.* Seems this time Pak have nothing to replay except yelling in United Nations and it will take years to build something accordingly


----------



## war&peace

313baberali said:


> *india recent interceptor missiles test,which is really threatening National security.* Seems this time Pak have nothing to replay except yelling in United Nations and it will take years to build something accordingly


It has already been taken care of..Though Indian test wasn't successful but, nonetheless, they are working on it and also acquiring S400 from Russia. However SIII addresses that and most of Pakistan ballistic missile have been modified to address it and that is why you so many repeated test of the same missile over and over again and the ISPR statment just tells that "all the parameters have been met" and what are those parameters, outsiders like you can only guess.


----------



## Zarvan

Horus said:


> We strongly deny this assessment, the Shaheen-III cannot go an inch beyond the stated range. @Hyperion @Oscar


Yes Yes off course Sir not a single inch more in fact MM

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## war&peace

Syama Ayas said:


> SHAHEEN 3 would need a *range of 4100 KM * to be launched from any part of Pakistan and still reach *any part of India*.


Did you ever heard a word like map...this is a thing that has the locations of countries and cities on it, try to consult the damn thing and a clue...some of them are totally free and pretty good too for example google maps..just use it

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 313baberali

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> perfect time


Looks like Pak Military have to wait this time ,till the happy birth day of India interceptor missile or let it grow few years. 1998 nuke test within days we respond, As Prithvi rises as Ghori comes ,now interceptor and we going to UN or "Concerns "


----------



## kshaib

Pakistan doesnot have to give Detail of any Missile etc..... Keep them in Mistery.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

war&peace said:


> Did you ever heard a word like map...this is a thing has that the locations of countries and cities on it, try to consult the damn thing and a clue...some of them are totally free and pretty good too for example google maps..just use it


SHAHEEN III actual range 5000 KM ????


----------



## war&peace

Syama Ayas said:


> SHAHEEN III actual range 5000 KM ????


Nobody knows, Our stated range is 2750 km and we stick to it and you should believe that. Not a single meter more.


----------



## 313baberali

war&peace said:


> outsiders


I shut my mouth on this.thanksyou


----------



## war&peace

313baberali said:


> I shut my mouth on this.thanksyou


Hey come on, it was not to offend you but like every country, Pakistan has to keep certain things secret and it is better to surprise the enemy in case of war than allowing him to know everything in advance and plan accordingly. Though it would be great to share all the details with the people of the country that will of course reveal it the enemy...just wait for the right moment.


----------



## Assault Rifle

Interesting.I remember that Chinese military's PLA Academy of Military Sciences also stated that India's Agni-V missile has an actual range of 8000km and that India is downplaying Agni-V's capabilities



> The Agni-V actually has the potential to reach targets 8,000 kilometers away, but the Indian government had deliberately downplayed the missile's capability in order to avoid causing concern to other countries, *Du Wenlong, a researcher at China's PLA Academy of Military Sciences, told the Global Times that -Global Times*




Source: http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/705683.shtml

@Zarvan @war&peace @Horus @PAKISTANFOREVER @Chauvinist @Talwar e Pakistan


----------



## war&peace

Assault Rifle said:


> Interesting.I remember that Chinese military's PLA Academy of Military Sciences also stated that India's Agni-V missile has an actual range of 8000km and that India is downplaying Agni-V's capabilities
> 
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/705683.shtml
> 
> @Zarvan @war&peace @Horus @PAKISTANFOREVER @Chauvinist @Talwar e Pakistan


Hey read my post # 29. It may help you understand. I'm quoting it below for convenience;


war&peace said:


> Even the rudimentary knowledge of ballistics will tell you that there is no fixed range...not a constant number 2750 km. It depends on the mainly on two factors (1) payload/warhead capacity (2) the trajectory followed by.
> Range is inversely proportional to the weight of the payload/warhead...i.e. a decrease in the weight of payload will result in a corresponding increase in the range given all other parameters are kept constant i.e. fuel, route or trajectory.
> Trajectory of the ballistic missiles is much longer than the range (range is the displacment or direct distance between the launching point and the target/destination). Shaheen III was designed to account for any missile defence system that enemy i.e. India may apply thus it can alter its course and vary the speed to avoid them and still making sure that it reaches 2750 km from its launch point. Furthermore Shaheen-III is extremely high speed missile and reaches upwards of M=10 during the flight and even higher in the re-entry phase. Also the rocket motors were designed to support MIRV load capacities which is underdevelopment and will either be called Shaheen IV or a separate series (not HATF). Thus if SIII is launch with a lighter warhead on a trajectory with minimal obstructions i.e. missile defence shields etc, it can reach much farther than the stated range (more than double)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Assault Rifle

^Yes.Missile range depends on payload.


----------



## IceCold

Zarvan said:


> Secondly their are massive rumours going on in Army about an ICBM getting tested soon.



To give whom a message? If you ask me ICBM is long over due and more so since the recent US attack in Baluchistan.


----------



## I M Sikander

Blue Marlin said:


> view from @34.40


A great share dude


----------



## !eon

Zarvan said:


> First its range is not less than 3500 KM. Secondly their are massive rumours going on in Army about an ICBM getting tested soon.


ICBM was first ever tension developed between Musharraf and AQ.


----------



## Green Angel

Syama Ayas said:


> SHAHEEN 3 would need a range of 4100 to be launched from any part of Pakistan and still reach any part of India.



2750 is enough to wipeout TelAviv and Delhi , shortest route is the best....


----------



## cerberus

war&peace said:


> It has already been taken care of..Though Indian test wasn't successful but, nonetheless, they are working


*Yeah According to Unnamed Informed Sources of Blog Writer over Indian Govt Agency.Nevertheless it tested 11 times out of which 9 are Successful Tests. Its Better Rate than ThAAD which Failed Six times over 15 tests.
Nevertheless Now India Join MTCR We will Get Sensitive Materials and Guidance Technology From Member countries *


----------



## CorporateAffairs

v9s said:


> Russia has ICBMs ranging 13000kms.
> 
> If Russia has, India automatically has them too.
> 
> AGNI range not an issue



Agreed for your happiness


----------



## Genghis khan1

Increasing range is not the problem. Add second and third stage booster and missile can fly halfway around the world. Maintaining missile accuracy and the guidance system is the real challenge.


----------



## war&peace

SvenSvensonov said:


> Is this the same THAAD with a 100% hit success rate?
> 
> http://www.*********************.com/forums/attachments/capture-jpg.3535/
> 
> http://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-defense-systems/u-s-missile-defense-intercept-test-record/


India's vedic technologies are far ahead of THAAD or any other system now or in the future... understand?


----------



## cerberus

SvenSvensonov said:


> Is this the same THAAD with a 100% hit success rate?
> 
> http://www.*********************.com/forums/attachments/capture-jpg.3535/
> 
> http://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-defense-systems/u-s-missile-defense-intercept-test-record/


*Not In Demonstration-Validation Phase*

*




*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_High_Altitude_Area_Defense
*
@SvenSvensonov You are Focusing On Engineering and manufacturing phase of the Thaad

Analysis of flight data is continuing to determine the cause of the Lockheed Martin Theater High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) missile test failure on 22 March.

A THAAD prototype failed to hit its ballistic missile target - the second failure in two intercept attempts. During the test, which took place at the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico, the missile flew past the target after its in-flight command and control functions failed to operate, says the US Army.

It was then destroyed so that missile debris would not land outside the test range.

Programme officials are trying to determine whether missile components failed or whether the THAAD ground-based radar malfunctioned. The test was the fifth for the THAAD.



https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/thaad-misses-mark-again-17340/


This week the Army is scheduled to hold another test for the Theater High Altitude Air Defense (THAAD) program.

The program is designed to shield U.S. troops in the field by destroying enemy missiles at high altitudes, ramming them at high speeds.

After years of development by its contractor, Lockheed Martin Corp., and a $3.9 billion investment by taxpayers, the program has failed six-consecutive tests and aborted another after the target missile went off course.

With future spending, this program could squander an additional $15 billion in taxpayer funds without showing any signs of success.

With recent concerns of Chinese missiles targeting the United States, increased pressure has been placed on fielding successful missile defense.

Unfortunately, THAAD is not that system. While TCS recognizes THAAD is a program in development and cannot be expected to work perfectly every time, the system’s excessive failures demonstrate that it is inherently flawed and should be cancelled.

Whatever the threat may be, throwing taxpayer money at programs that don’t work is an idea that is off target.

History of THAAD Test Failures

*


*

May 24, 1999 -- The Army aborted the seventh test for the THAAD system, after its target missile went off course.

May 11, 1999-- Lockheed Martin Corp. fired the president of its Astronautics division following highly publicized failures of its rocket operations including the THAAD system. The announcement came one week after the corporation conducted an internal review of its missile program.

March 29, 1999 -- The THAAD system launched and missed its target for a sixth-consecutive time. Defense spokespersons blamed a thruster nozzle that blew off during flight.

May 12, 1998 -- The THAAD system failed a fifth-consecutive flight test. A booster rocket misfired and the missile lost control.

March 6, 1997 -- The THAAD missile test failed for the fourth time in a row to hit its target.

July 1996 -- After not being able to locate its target during its third-consecutive unsuccessful test, the THAAD system self-destructed.

March 22, 1996 -- The THAAD system failed in its second-consecutive attempt to intercept its target, as the missile was unable to follow its in-flight command and control orders.

December 13, 1995 -- THAAD’s failed first live-target test
*
*http://www.taxpayer.net/library/weekly-wastebasket/article/thaad-goes-thud

Your $170 Billion Missile Defenses Don’t Work

Don’t tell me you’re surprised
On Friday, July 5, a long-range ballistic missile blasted into the skies from the U.S. military’s remote Pacific Ocean test site at Kwajalein Atoll. Meanwhile, a second missile launched from its silo on the West Coast with instructions to intercept and destroy it. Somewhere along the way, the second missile failed. “An intercept was not achieved,” the Pentagon stated abruptly.

The price tag for just this test: a cool $214 million.

The failure is yet another major setback for a missile defense program projected to cost $170 billion between 1983 and 2017 and intended to protect the United States from a nuclear attack. The missed intercept also risks delaying further tests, and worse, calls into question one of the Pentagon’s primary claims about whether its missile defense system can really work at all.

The test involved a 140-pound CE-1 “kill vehicle” equipped with maneuvering thrusters, which should propel it towards an incoming ballistic missile before the interceptor separates from the thrusters and physically collides with the target. The two missiles approach each other at a combined speed approaching 15,000 miles per hour. Such an intercept is a complex task, to say the least.

https://warisboring.com/your-170-billion-missile-defenses-dont-work-51fa276a7983#.kb2lcvydi

*


----------



## v9s

CorporateAffairs said:


> Agreed for your happiness



Oh, but it's not for my happiness. Its to help you Indians out of your delusions of indigenous-ness.


----------



## Zarvan

IceCold said:


> To give whom a message? If you ask me ICBM is long over due and more so since the recent US attack in Baluchistan.


We can expect ICBM test soon and yes I agree with you on USA part


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

Stealth said:


> What is the perfect time by the way ?? when Alien fire ICBM from chaand sitaray ?


No bhai...

When India launched nuclear tests; we responded in days.

We already had the nuclear capabilities but it was well hidden from the world and we showcased it at the perfect moment.


----------



## Mentee

@Zarvan bro lets say the range is 10000 miles------does it even matter to you?----why you are hell bent to know the range in inches in every other thread---------------take a break-----btw what is the loiter time of su30 with and without
drop tanks

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## IceCold

Zarvan said:


> We can expect ICBM test soon and yes I agree with you on USA part



you might want to read this:
https://defence.pk/threads/dont-be-scared-to-squeeze-pakistan.434226/#post-8367507

US has made its intentions known for a long time. I can just hope and pray that people who are responsible for making our strategic calculus actually wakes up to this threat and do something about it before it gets too late.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

We should just make the 10,000 range missile and then focus on space program

Three external boosters on shaheen should extend the range easily which fall off over the sea


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Zarvan said:


> We can expect ICBM test soon


what is your source?Or is it just rumors? Any tam frame?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viper0011.

Zarvan said:


> According to a report submitted to US Senate by their National Air and Space Intelligence Center (NASIC) , the actual range of Pakistan's Shaheen-3 missile is 5000 Km. The organization has access to long range radars and plethora of spy satellites with the added bonus of having experience of building missiles since 1950s,so their data and statement is as credible as it gets.
> Pakistan is deliberately firing the missile at a lower range of 2750 Kilometres.
> The reason of keeping the range lower is to have a higher speed. The fuel which could carry the missile to greater distance, is being used in giving the missile a higher velocity, specially when it re-enters the atmosphere.




Once you have the Physics, Chemistry, Metallurgy and Technology (Flight Control / Avionics, etc) down, range becomes a non-event. You can increase / decrease as you wish to. Its like Cars. Once you can build a 1600 CC car and it works.....nothing can stop you from offering different versions of that same engineering with modifications to the chassis, like an SUV, Mini Van, etc, etc. If you can develop a V4, you can overtime develop a V-6 and a V-8 also as the engineering doesn't change. Just the mechanics and design does.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Akasa

Viny said:


> One need to understand, physics plays and important role, the coefficient of burn x fuel is not the only calculation to get the range, weight, wind direction, design and playload are other major factors too.



And you have all of this data at hand to draw your conclusion?



Green Angel said:


> 2750 is enough to wipeout TelAviv and Delhi , shortest route is the best....



ICBMs allow for the payload to be delivered from a higher apogee, resulting in greater reentry velocities and difficulty for the enemy to intercept.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

The design is hardly difficult to add a third stage for extra boost either 1 extra stage or 3 suppliment booster as enough to increase the range of missile easily 

It is Pakistan's good will that we don't try to extend our reach


----------



## ZAC1

recently an interview of Dr.Samar Mubarak stated that 2750 is not actual range it is more from then given targeted range so 3000 km is maximum check Dr.Samar interview


----------



## ZAC1




----------



## war&peace

Genghis khan1 said:


> Increasing range is not the problem. Add second and third stage booster and missile can fly halfway around the world. Maintaining missile accuracy and the guidance system is the real challenge.


It is not that simple and it literally requires rocket sience. If it was just the matter of adding stages, each country or at least most of the developing countries would be possessing a few ICBMs. Having said that, Pakistan has the capability to develop an ICBM and a working model was already developed quite some time ago. However it is a matter of resources, need, political committment and decision. I'm sure when the right moment arrives, Pakistan will test this capability too but it can have some serious repercussions on our economy and foreign policy. A strong economy is much more important than a missile that can simply go farther. Right now your declared enemy is India and you have it pretty much covered with Shaheen III and if you would like include Israel also, you have it within your range...What else do you need?


----------



## SQ8

Horus said:


> We strongly deny this assessment, the Shaheen-III cannot go an inch beyond the stated range. @Hyperion @Oscar


The missile is designed to deliver a calculated payload size to its published range and nothing beyond it within the CeP.
Anything else is fanboyish delusion at best, wilful misinformation at worst.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Bossman

Syama Ayas said:


> Just checked the NASIC's Ballistic and Cruise Missile Threat report from 2013
> 
> It makes no mention of Shaheen 3 at all
> 
> Rather it has stated Babur has a range of 350 KM
> 
> http://fas.org/programs/ssp/nukes/nuclearweapons/NASIC2013_050813.pdf
> 
> If what is being quoted in the unavailable facebook link is newer version of NASIC report
> 
> please provide the link as well.
> 
> Besides a lower range actually gives lesser speed.



so whats the point of comparing Cruise Missile with IRBMs, so you are saying that the range of Pakistani missiles is capped at 350 KM? It is OK to be stupid but you don't have to show the whole world that you are stupid


----------



## -blitzkrieg-

Viny said:


> Yes range could be 5000+ if you take it 3000+ kms close to the target and fire it
> 
> One need to understand, physics plays and important role, the coefficient of burn x fuel is not the only calculation to get the range, weight, wind direction, design and playload are other major factors too.
> 
> Given that even small achievements are boasted I would not be surprised is 2750 is extended range of S3.


. I hope Indian Strategists think the same way as you do. You should be their chief in my humble opinion.



Tripoli said:


>


 Interesting how that pic puts the three I s ( India,isarael,iran) in bold. What was Washington post thinking

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ZAC1

Oscar said:


> The missile is designed to deliver a calculated payload size to its published range and nothing beyond it within the CeP.
> Anything else is fanboyish delusion at best, wilful misinformation at worst.


i think you should listen what Dr.Samar Mubarak was saying in its interview ..Targeted Range and maximum range


----------



## SQ8

ZAC1 said:


> i think you should listen what Dr.Samar Mubarak was saying in its interview ..Targeted Range and maximum range


I know exactly what Dr Samar is saying, and exactly what I am saying.
The range is 2950KM and not an inch beyond it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Genghis khan1

war&peace said:


> It is not that simple and it literally requires rocket sience. If it was just the matter of adding stages, each country or at least most of the developing countries would be possessing a few ICBMs. Having said that, Pakistan has the capability to develop an ICBM and a working model was already developed quite some time ago. However it is a matter of resources, need, political committment and decision. I'm sure when the right moment arrives, Pakistan will test this capability too but it can have some serious repercussions on our economy and foreign policy. A strong economy is much more important than a missile that can simply go farther. Right now your declared enemy is India and you have it pretty much covered with Shaheen III and if you would like include Israel also, you have it within your range...What else do you need?


Aside from growing Balls for political will, I was talking pure technically, Increasing range is never the problem. Rocket science isn't that hard if you understand basics of engineering physics. Even Hamas can make 40 miles in their basement. It all takes, force balance and jet Propulsion calculations. Normal univeristy physics. Now when we are talking about IRBM and ICBM, the main problem is guiding it to target and atmosphere pressure calculation. Of which I think Pakistan is having trouble with guidance. May be Pakistan might use chinese satellite for their ICBM in future.


----------



## Tripoli

-blitzkrieg- said:


> . I hope Indian Strategists think the same way as you do. You should be their chief in my humble opinion.
> 
> Interesting how that pic puts the three I s ( India,isarael,iran) in bold. What was Washington post thinking


I can't believe how I didn't notice that. It is indeed mysterious.


----------



## amardeep mishra

Genghis khan1 said:


> Aside from growing Balls for political will, I was talking pure technically, Increasing range is never the problem. Rocket science isn't that hard if you understand basics of engineering physics. Even Hamas can make 40 miles in their basement. It all takes, force balance and jet Propulsion calculations. Normal univeristy physics. Now when we are talking about IRBM and ICBM, the main problem is guiding it to target and atmosphere pressure calculation. Of which I think Pakistan is having trouble with guidance. May be Pakistan might use chinese satellite for their ICBM in future.



Hi dear @Genghis khan1
It isnt really that easy either.We are not talking about DIY rockets but advanced ICBMs that are design to fly more than 5500kms! Let me elaborate based on my own experience-





P.C- Missile guidance and control,George M sioris
Journey of any ICBM can be divided into three (in some literature two) stages-
(a)Powered flight
(b)Free fall
(c) Re-entry
Kindly note that both (b) and (c) are free falling.From a purely control engineering perspective,one would need to select optimum burnout point somewhere around 450-500kms altitude for a specific target. The steering of ICBM from launch point to burnout point is perhaps the most difficult and crucial phase of any ICBM as it has to encounter varying dynamic pressure.Now to understand the reason why is this phase most important,requires some decent amount of aerospace engineering.




Here is a simplified Free body diagram of a ICBM RV,I have resolved forces in perpendicular direction,hence in perpendicular direction
QSCl*cos(Theta-alpha)=W+QSCd*sin(theta-alpha)---------------------------(1)
Kindly note that I've not included thrust, but it'll appear on the LHS of (1).
where Q is the dynamic pressure,
S=surface area
Cl=coefficient of lift=which again can be approximated by Clalpha*alpha
Cd=coefficient of drag= which again can be approximated by Cd0+k*Cl^2
theta=attittude angle or pitch angle
alpha=AoA
gamma=flight path angle(between velocity vector and the local horizontal)---not shown in the pic
Eqn 1 must be balanced all the time,but the missile is constantly accelerated till the burnout point meaning an ever increasing velocity and hence a varying dynamic pressure Q. For (1) to hold and we wish to keep theta at a certain value(as will become apparent later in my explanation),we would have to have some control over alpha. And alpha can be controlled by elevator deflection or actuating the jet vanes(--like shaheen and other older missiles),or by deflecting the nozzle using a servo-mechanism(in agni-4 or agni-5).
Once it has reached the burnout point,the missile should have a requisite velocity and escape angle denoted by fi(subscript bo) in fig-1.These two parameters are determined by the type of elliptic trajectory we want- again depends on mission profile- whether we want a depressed trajectory or a normal min-energy trajectory.These two parameters are so important that a minor deficiency can lead to huge errors later during the re-entry. Kindly note that fi(bo) is closely related to theta above.
The trajectory after burnout point till re-entry is elliptical with centre of earth being at one of the foci,hence normal elliptical equations apply(considering a TWO-BODY PROBLEM!,for three-body problem involving the effect of other bodies,more robust numerical solutions are required).
With initial conditions fi(bo) and v(bo) we can solve the harmonic differential equation(again posing it as two-body problem) to yield the velocity with which it will splash again into atmosphere at the time of re-entry.I have done a simulation for shaheen missile here-->
https://defence.pk/threads/recent-i...-samar-mubarakmand.430471/page-6#post-8334986

Now the challenges for pakistan-
Here in this section of my post,i will briefly touch upon the engineering challenges being faced by pakistan and i am sure my friends @JamD and @The Deterrent would agree and perhaps shed some more light .
1)To cover a larger distance-downrange,missile must have a higher v(bo) and an optimal angle fi(bo) at burnout point.For a larger vi(bo) one would require a larger motor to accelerate the RV from 0(at the time of launching) to vi(bo) at burnout point. Now keeping aside the control challenges,pakistan would have to first fabricate such a big motor that will take a 1tonne payload from 0 to v(bo).This wont be too difficult to achieve(however i believe in tests and pakistan hasnt really shown such big solid rocket motor),However what is difficult to achieve is "weight reduction" by using composite motors and casing--- which is certainly off limits for pakistan at the moment. This in turns requires complex filament winding machines.The composite must be able to withstand the radial pressure exerted during the powered flight regime---unlike a liquid engine,in solid rocket,entire casing undergoes a radial pressure during itz operation.

2)Secondly pakistan would have to improve controls. They would have to let go external surfaces.Currently,pakistani missiles use external surfaces for stabilization and possibly jet vanes for control. This can be replaced by flex-nozzle with servo-mechanism,however it is much more complex arrangement and again none of the pakistani strategic missiles have been tested with this setup. Kindly note that external control surfaces increase drag!

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
2 | Like Like:
7


----------



## Bad Guy

There was other fanboy article I guess which suggested range of Agni 5 to be 8500 km.


----------



## Blue Marlin

Oscar said:


> I know exactly what Dr Samar is saying, and exactly what I am saying.
> The range is 2950KM and not an inch beyond it.


i thought he said 2750km and not an inch beyond



amardeep mishra said:


> 2)Secondly pakistan would have to improve controls. They would have to let go external surfaces.Currently,pakistani missiles use external surfaces for stabilization and possibly jet vanes for control. This can be replaced by flex-nozzle with servo-mechanism,however it is much more complex arrangement and again none of the pakistani strategic missiles have been tested with this setup. Kindly note that external control surfaces increase drag!


well you find cntroll surfaces on particilarly on the first stage and even some icbm have controll surfaces

below is the gridfins of an ss-20 trbm (range 5500km)







even the falcon 9 has it





point being you can have control surfaces up untill you leave the atmosphere


----------



## war&peace

Genghis khan1 said:


> Aside from growing Balls for political will, I was talking pure technically, Increasing range is never the problem. Rocket science isn't that hard if you understand basics of engineering physics. Even Hamas can make 40 miles in their basement. It all takes, force balance and jet Propulsion calculations. Normal univeristy physics. Now when we are talking about IRBM and ICBM, the main problem is guiding it to target and atmosphere pressure calculation. Of which I think Pakistan is having trouble with guidance. May be Pakistan might use chinese satellite for their ICBM in future.


I have done some designs of rocket motors it is a recursive problem.


----------



## amardeep mishra

Blue Marlin said:


> well you find cntroll surfaces on particilarly on the first stage and even some icbm have controll surfaces
> 
> below is the gridfins of an ss-20 trbm (range 5500km)



Hi dear @Blue Marlin
What you have pointed out is a grid fin or lattice fin,It is no doubt a better alternative to conventional planar fins.Since you're the one who have pointed it out,i assume your familiarity with aerodynamic characteristic of such a construct.Let me shed some light on that as well,on both advantages as well disadvantages. A grid fin,unlike conventional fin is arranged perpendicular to the flow--i mean the box structure holding the small criss-cross fin section is held perpendicular to the flow direction.The primary advantage of a grid cell is in supersonic or hypersonic regimes in fact it sucks at transonic regime.In fact the drag is considerably higher for grid cell in mach number ranging from 0.8 to 1.3,after that grid cell wins hands down!Another major dis-advantage of the grid cell is itz enhanced radar cross section! It scatters a lot of radar waves hence it produces considerably higher RCS vis-a-vis conventional fins.
Now coming to the part where it is actually attractive to use grid cell and that is smaller actuation energies required to move the fins as compared to conventional design.This allows for smaller sized (compact) actuators.Since the chord is small it can be folded back into the main body of the missile as you have shown above,i guess SS-20,missile.Now the reason why very smaller actuation energies are required is because,grid fins have smaller mean chord which results in smaller torque - QSCl*c(the small "c" or mean chord length is what makes it different).This means the actuator has to supply lesser torque to move the fins against the incoming flow. Whereas a conventional fin would require considerably higer torque to move it to new position against lets say supersonic or hyper sonic airflow!




This is specially advantageous when you're travelling in supersonic or better hyper sonic regime.In simple words,it is like this- it is easier to slam shut a door against normal weather(air-flow),however the task of shutting the door becomes difficult(requires more torque) when there is a storm or when you've to shut it against a high speed wind.
Now,the reason why i said,pakistan would have to improve controls in their strategic missiles is because they use conventional fins and not grid fins.Besides the modern trend is towards flex nozzles(i know you'd point to the falcon-9,but before you do that,i would like you to go through the control design of most modern ICBM- aka The Trident D-5 etc).A flex nozzle is always better than any external control or stabilization surface.
Lastly, Ofcourse one can have external control surfaces in the atmosphere perhaps till 80-90kms but a design(ICBM) with no external control surface is increasingly becoming a norm these days

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Blue Marlin

amardeep mishra said:


> Hi dear @Blue Marlin
> What you have pointed out is a grid fin or lattice fin,It is no doubt a better alternative to conventional planar fins.Since you're the one who have pointed it out,i assume your familiarity with aerodynamic characteristic of such a construct.Let me shed some light on that as well,on both advantages as well disadvantages. A grid fin,unlike conventional fin is arranged perpendicular to the flow--i mean the box structure holding the small criss-cross fin section is held perpendicular to the flow direction.The primary advantage of a grid cell is in supersonic or hypersonic regimes in fact it sucks at transonic regime.In fact the drag is considerably higher for grid cell in mach number ranging from 0.8 to 1.3,after that grid cell wins hands down!Another major dis-advantage of the grid cell is itz enhanced radar cross section! It scatters a lot of radar waves hence it produces considerably higher RCS vis-a-vis conventional fins.
> Now coming to the part where it is actually attractive to use grid cell and that is smaller actuation energies required to move the fins as compared to conventional design.This allows for smaller sized (compact) actuators.Since the chord is small it can be folded back into the main body of the missile as you have shown above,i guess SS-20,missile.Now the reason why very smaller actuation energies are required is because,grid fins have smaller mean chord which results in smaller torque - QSCl*c(the small "c" or mean chord length is what makes it different).This means the actuator has to supply lesser torque to move the fins against the incoming flow. Whereas a conventional fin would require considerably higer torque to move it to new position against lets say supersonic or hyper sonic airflow!
> View attachment 309737
> 
> This is specially advantageous when you're travelling in supersonic or better hyper sonic regime.In simple words,it is like this- it is easier to slam shut a door against normal weather(air-flow),however the task of shutting the door becomes difficult(requires more torque) when there is a storm or when you've to shut it against a high speed wind.
> Now,the reason why i said,pakistan would have to improve controls in their strategic missiles is because they use conventional fins and not grid fins.Besides the modern trend is towards flex nozzles(i know you'd point to the falcon-9,but before you do that,i would like you to go through the control design of most modern ICBM- aka The Trident D-5 etc).A flex nozzle is always better than any external control or stabilization surface.
> Lastly, Ofcourse one can have external control surfaces in the atmosphere perhaps till 80-90kms but a design(ICBM) with no external control surface is increasingly becoming a norm these days


a missile in the boost phase duration of the fight wont cause much problem in terms of rcs, but infrared satalites are the problem. the grid fin is my preferd choice due to large cross section and its lack of drag (dependanton the flight angle).

ok so back to you point of the fins weel it depends on the range of the missile. because the range of the missile is <3000km is does not matter.

example close to your home, the agni-II as you can see there are controll surfaces on both the bottom of the first stage and also the warhead its-self. the range of the missile is similar to the shaheen 3, (2500km)
only a 250 km differance. this would tell me that missiles that have a range of <3000 will have controll surfaces whilst missiles with a range above 3000km wont as theres no need for them and body thrusters and a flex nozzels would be used as a substitute. advance millses below 3000 km would also have body thrusters









look at the agni 3 range 3500-4000km and look no body thrusters


----------



## amardeep mishra

Blue Marlin said:


> example close to your home, the agni-II as you can see there are controll surfaces on both the bottom of the first stage and also the warhead its-self. the range of the missile is similar to the shaheen 3, (2500km



That my dear friend is because agni 2 was designed more than 2decades back! And back then, indian research hadn't progressed to the level where they could use flex nozzles.Hence a more conservative approach of external control/stabilization surface was chosen. None of the modern indian strategic missiles have external control surfaces.I'm talking about A3,4,5 and upcoming A6

PS- I can't see any of your pics in your most recent post, kindly re post them again

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Blue Marlin

amardeep mishra said:


> That my dear friend is because agni 2 was designed more than 2decades back! And back then, indian research hadn't progressed to the level where they could use flex nozzles.Hence a more conservative approach of external control/stabilization surface was chosen. None of the modern indian strategic missiles have external control surfaces.I'm talking about A3,4,5 and upcoming A6
> 
> PS- I can't see any of your pics in your most recent post, kindly re post them again


hi
the check again the pic are on the server this time not from othere sites.

well if you look at other designs of mrbm they too have visable controll fins most recently iran


----------



## amardeep mishra

Blue Marlin said:


> well if you look at other designs of mrbm they too have visable controll fins most recently iran



All I can say is they use older technology!


----------



## C130

so you are saying Shaheen III has greater range than Musudan? 





what is the weight of the warhead it carries?? I would guess 500kg?


----------



## Blue Marlin

amardeep mishra said:


> All I can say is they use older technology!


i used iran as an example mind you no one makes mrbm's anymore and for those who do theres no need in developing newerones as the current one can be upgraded.


----------



## tarrar

I don't understand why people use so many question marks.


----------



## amardeep mishra

Blue Marlin said:


> large cross section and its lack of drag (dependanton the flight angle).



Actually the drag in grid fin is more heavily dependent upon the mach regime than the AoA. You must read about its performance in mach regime of 0.8-1.3


----------



## Syed_Adeel

Syama Ayas said:


> Hence I have asked for newer version of report be provided by the OP
> 
> The facebook source is inaccessible.



If you get the latest source then share will us also

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LeGenD

cerberus said:


> *Yeah According to Unnamed Informed Sources of Blog Writer over Indian Govt Agency.Nevertheless it tested 11 times out of which 9 are Successful Tests. Its Better Rate than ThAAD which Failed Six times over 15 tests.
> Nevertheless Now India Join MTCR We will Get Sensitive Materials and Guidance Technology From Member countries *


You must be joking.

THAAD is among the few ABM systems in the world that have 100% successful target intercept rate in a fault-less situation. 

FYI: http://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-defense-systems/u-s-missile-defense-intercept-test-record/

More details here: http://www.mda.mil/global/documents/pdf/testrecord.pdf (PDF format)

---

The failures you pointed out were of THAAD's initial interceptor prototypes; when THAAD's design was premature and far from complete. And those failures were largely due to technical/mechanical faults: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/budget/fy2000/dot-e/other/00thaad.html

Those failures don't count as examples of failing to intercept the target missile in a fault-less situation.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Taimur Khurram

I heard about being 5,000km literally ever since the first successful launch. Wouldn't be surprised if it was the truth. Oh and just so you guys can get a good picture of what that's like:


----------



## PaklovesTurkiye

amardeep mishra said:


> Hi dear @Genghis khan1
> It isnt really that easy either.We are not talking about DIY rockets but advanced ICBMs that are design to fly more than 5500kms! Let me elaborate based on my own experience-
> View attachment 309678
> 
> 
> P.C- Missile guidance and control,George M sioris
> Journey of any ICBM can be divided into three (in some literature two) stages-
> (a)Powered flight
> (b)Free fall
> (c) Re-entry
> Kindly note that both (b) and (c) are free falling.From a purely control engineering perspective,one would need to select optimum burnout point somewhere around 450-500kms altitude for a specific target. The steering of ICBM from launch point to burnout point is perhaps the most difficult and crucial phase of any ICBM as it has to encounter varying dynamic pressure.Now to understand the reason why is this phase most important,requires some decent amount of aerospace engineering.
> View attachment 309681
> 
> Here is a simplified Free body diagram of a ICBM RV,I have resolved forces in perpendicular direction,hence in perpendicular direction
> QSCl*cos(Theta-alpha)=W+QSCd*sin(theta-alpha)---------------------------(1)
> Kindly note that I've not included thrust, but it'll appear on the LHS of (1).
> where Q is the dynamic pressure,
> S=surface area
> Cl=coefficient of lift=which again can be approximated by Clalpha*alpha
> Cd=coefficient of drag= which again can be approximated by Cd0+k*Cl^2
> theta=attittude angle or pitch angle
> alpha=AoA
> gamma=flight path angle(between velocity vector and the local horizontal)---not shown in the pic
> Eqn 1 must be balanced all the time,but the missile is constantly accelerated till the burnout point meaning an ever increasing velocity and hence a varying dynamic pressure Q. For (1) to hold and we wish to keep theta at a certain value(as will become apparent later in my explanation),we would have to have some control over alpha. And alpha can be controlled by elevator deflection or actuating the jet vanes(--like shaheen and other older missiles),or by deflecting the nozzle using a servo-mechanism(in agni-4 or agni-5).
> Once it has reached the burnout point,the missile should have a requisite velocity and escape angle denoted by fi(subscript bo) in fig-1.These two parameters are determined by the type of elliptic trajectory we want- again depends on mission profile- whether we want a depressed trajectory or a normal min-energy trajectory.These two parameters are so important that a minor deficiency can lead to huge errors later during the re-entry. Kindly note that fi(bo) is closely related to theta above.
> The trajectory after burnout point till re-entry is elliptical with centre of earth being at one of the foci,hence normal elliptical equations apply(considering a TWO-BODY PROBLEM!,for three-body problem involving the effect of other bodies,more robust numerical solutions are required).
> With initial conditions fi(bo) and v(bo) we can solve the harmonic differential equation(again posing it as two-body problem) to yield the velocity with which it will splash again into atmosphere at the time of re-entry.I have done a simulation for shaheen missile here-->
> https://defence.pk/threads/recent-i...-samar-mubarakmand.430471/page-6#post-8334986
> 
> Now the challenges for pakistan-
> Here in this section of my post,i will briefly touch upon the engineering challenges being faced by pakistan and i am sure my friends @JamD and @The Deterrent would agree and perhaps shed some more light .
> 1)To cover a larger distance-downrange,missile must have a higher v(bo) and an optimal angle fi(bo) at burnout point.For a larger vi(bo) one would require a larger motor to accelerate the RV from 0(at the time of launching) to vi(bo) at burnout point. Now keeping aside the control challenges,pakistan would have to first fabricate such a big motor that will take a 1tonne payload from 0 to v(bo).This wont be too difficult to achieve(however i believe in tests and pakistan hasnt really shown such big solid rocket motor),However what is difficult to achieve is "weight reduction" by using composite motors and casing--- which is certainly off limits for pakistan at the moment. This in turns requires complex filament winding machines.The composite must be able to withstand the radial pressure exerted during the powered flight regime---unlike a liquid engine,in solid rocket,entire casing undergoes a radial pressure during itz operation.
> 
> 2)Secondly pakistan would have to improve controls. They would have to let go external surfaces.Currently,pakistani missiles use external surfaces for stabilization and possibly jet vanes for control. This can be replaced by flex-nozzle with servo-mechanism,however it is much more complex arrangement and again none of the pakistani strategic missiles have been tested with this setup. Kindly note that external control surfaces increase drag!



Really awesome, man....


----------



## Faiez

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> I wouldnt be surprised; Pakistan Military likes to hide it's capabilities until there is a perfect time to showcase it.



Agreed !


----------



## cabatli_53

Long range Cruise missiles are more deterrent weapon system than longer range ballistic missiles having huge CEP rates If you ask me. Just concentrate development of 1500-2500km variants of Babur covering almost all hostile nation's strategic grounds and put some nuclear input inside of warhead and enjoy the pin-point accuracy with huge destructive effect.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## iby32

Viny said:


> Yes range could be 5000+ if you take it 3000+ kms close to the target and fire it
> 
> One need to understand, physics plays and important role, the coefficient of burn x fuel is not the only calculation to get the range, weight, wind direction, design and playload are other major factors too.
> 
> Given that even small achievements are boasted I would not be surprised is 2750 is extended range of S3.


Even with 2750 km range s3 got india is not 5000+miles away from pakistan you guys are only next door so keep that in mind


----------



## tigerrock ali

Viny said:


> Yes range could be 5000+ if you take it 3000+ kms close to the target and fire it
> 
> One need to understand, physics plays and important role, the coefficient of burn x fuel is not the only calculation to get the range, weight, wind direction, design and playload are other major factors too.
> 
> Given that even small achievements are boasted I would not be surprised is 2750 is extended range of S3.


I would agree with you if Shaheen III was developed by india.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Basel

Zarvan said:


> First its range is not less than 3500 KM. Secondly their are massive rumours going on in Army about an ICBM getting tested soon.



Don't spread rumors, Pakistan will not test ICBM even if we have them, because it's strategic blunder, whole west will be running to stop our nuclear program as they will feel threatened, due to Islamic bomb fear.

Pakistan may only show ICBM capability when it's tectonic shift in strategic policy.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Thorough Pro

Some immature lot here suffers from chronic oral diarrhea and keep splattering everywhere without understanding the consequences. Never forget, "lose lips, sink ships" 




Basel said:


> Don't spread rumors, Pakistan will not test ICBM even if we have them, because it's strategic blunder, whole west will be running to stop our nuclear program as they will feel threatened, due to Islamic bomb fear.
> 
> Pakistan may only show ICBM capability when it's tectonic shift in strategic policy.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## fitpOsitive

Be it 3 or 5, whats the big deal? At least its not 10...


----------



## dadeechi

Zarvan said:


> According to a report submitted to US Senate by their National Air and Space Intelligence Center (NASIC) , the actual range of Pakistan's Shaheen-3 missile is 5000 Km. The organization has access to long range radars and plethora of spy satellites with the added bonus of having experience of building missiles since 1950s,so their data and statement is as credible as it gets.
> Pakistan is deliberately firing the missile at a lower range of 2750 Kilometres.
> The reason of keeping the range lower is to have a higher speed. The fuel which could carry the missile to greater distance, is being used in giving the missile a higher velocity, specially when it re-enters the atmosphere.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/**********...6691342443057/908371975941654/?type=3&theater




Actually Pakistan just requires a range of 3600 KM. Pakistan already has this covered...


----------



## junglakabadshah

when india is within our range in missile less than 2000 km y we need such missile??


----------



## WarFariX

junglakabadshah said:


> when india is within our range in missile less than 2000 km y we need such missile??


we get more payload as well as israel possible future threat

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## marbella

5000 kms may cover russia japan australia and some pat of europe.


----------



## Star Expedition

maybe it is true, cos Wikipedia shows it covers 3500-4500km.


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

cabatli_53 said:


> Long range Cruise missiles are more deterrent weapon system than longer range ballistic missiles having huge CEP rates If you ask me. Just concentrate development of 1500-2500km variants of Babur covering almost all hostile nation's strategic grounds and put some nuclear input inside of warhead and enjoy the pin-point accuracy with huge destructive effect.


Trade-off here is cruise missiles are more vulnerable to target nations defenses than a ballistic missile.


----------



## Syed Taha Wajahat

for shaheen III they closed the airspace from Pakistan to Nigeria or some African country. You can get some hints about its range but its confirmed that the Shaheen III is not 2700 KM missile

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zarvan

Pakistan could have said it's range is 2700 KM and or 2800 KM but using the term 2750 is enough to say we are taunting some one and that is USA and Israel. No way Shaheen III range is less than 4000 KM.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The_Sidewinder

Zarvan said:


> Pakistan could have said it's range is 2700 KM and or 2800 KM but using the term 2750 is enough to say we are taunting some one and that is USA and Israel. No way Shaheen III range is less than 4000 KM.



Agreed. Hiding true capabilities is always strategically beneficial.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## IceCold

Zarvan said:


> Pakistan could have said it's range is 2700 KM and or 2800 KM but using the term 2750 is enough to say we are taunting some one and that is USA and Israel. No way Shaheen III range is less than 4000 KM.


If you ask me the real taunt would had been if we would test the missile on its actual range and than tell the US of A to go take a hike. Other than that baki sub baaten dil ko tasli dena ka lia hain.


----------



## Tsar Bomba

Zarvan said:


> Pakistan could have said it's range is 2700 KM and or 2800 KM but using the term 2750 is enough to say we are taunting some one and that is USA and Israel. No way Shaheen III range is less than 4000 KM.


Siii is 2700 to max 3000.


----------



## SOHEIL

Without maneuverable warhead it's an easy target !


----------



## Tsar Bomba

SOHEIL said:


> Without maneuverable warhead it's an easy target !


All Pakistani missiles equiped with MaRV.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## fitpOsitive

dadeechi said:


> Actually Pakistan just requires a range of 3600 KM. Pakistan already has this covered...
> 
> View attachment 353873


Most of the guys from India in these situations try to pull Israelis in. Nice try.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SOHEIL

Tsar Bomba said:


> All Pakistani missiles equiped with MaRV.



Any picture from the systems?


----------



## Tsar Bomba

SOHEIL said:


> Any picture from the systems?


Most of the details are classified hence ISPR don't release such stuff to public which gives enemy some idea about the system which may lead them to adopt counter measures. 
Keep the enemy in doubt and delusion.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SOHEIL

Tsar Bomba said:


> Most of the details are classified hence ISPR don't release such stuff to public which gives enemy some idea about the system which may lead them to adopt counter measures.
> Keep the enemy in doubt and delusion.



@salarsikander


----------



## Khafee

Syed Taha Wajahat said:


> for shaheen III they closed the airspace from Pakistan to Nigeria or some African country. You can get some hints about its range but its confirmed that the Shaheen III is not 2700 KM missile


Antartica



Tsar Bomba said:


> All Pakistani missiles equiped with MaRV.


MIRV

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Tsar Bomba

Khafee said:


> Antartica
> 
> 
> MIRV


Probably but not confirmed, as per sources system is ready for testing but MaRV already fielded.


----------



## T-Rex

*Pakistan should think about contingency plan when somebody is going to tell her that her time was up and that she should hand over her nukes or get bombed back to stone age. I think the time is very close.*


----------



## RealNapster

cabatli_53 said:


> Long range Cruise missiles are more deterrent weapon system than longer range ballistic missiles having huge CEP rates If you ask me. Just concentrate development of 1500-2500km variants of Babur covering almost all hostile nation's strategic grounds and put some nuclear input inside of warhead and enjoy the pin-point accuracy with huge destructive effect.



Currently we are working on 1000 km babur cruise missile.



dadeechi said:


> Actually Pakistan just requires a range of 3600 KM. Pakistan already has this covered...
> 
> View attachment 353873



Come on . we don't have to fire it from Islamabad.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## RAAJ大和

He puts an IRONFIST on the face of enemy


----------



## salarsikander

SOHEIL said:


> @salarsikander


Yes?


----------



## RealNapster

T-Rex said:


> Pakistan should think about contingency plan when somebody is going to tell her that her time was up and that she should hand over her nukes or get bombed back to stone age.



Halwa hay Kia ??


----------



## salarsikander

5000 Km ? @Zarvan It is no wonder that no one takes you seriously


----------



## Zarvan

salarsikander said:


> 5000 Km ? @Zarvan It is no wonder that no one takes you seriously


I said 4000 KM and I stand by it and I have been made fun on lot of things but thanks to ALLAH I have been proven right on most of them. One of them was when I told that Pakistan has been developing mini nuclear plants for nuclear submarines. Every one made fun of me but after few months Mr Oscar confirmed it.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## salarsikander

Zarvan said:


> I said 4000 KM and I stand by it and I have been made fun on lot of things but thanks to ALLAH I have been proven right on most of them. One of them was when I told that Pakistan has been developing mini nuclear plants for nuclear submarines. Every one made fun of me but after few months Mr Oscar confirmed it.


Please please ! Your sources are Facebook for Fk Sake. Grow up ! 

Unless and until it is tested it. The status remains 0. Now grow up this is not urud daily forum, rather an international forum. So follow the etiquettes the same way

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Star Expedition

Zarvan said:


> I said 4000 KM and I stand by it and I have been made fun on lot of things but thanks to ALLAH I have been proven right on most of them. One of them was when I told that Pakistan has been developing mini nuclear plants for nuclear submarines. Every one made fun of me but after few months Mr Oscar confirmed it.



Pak must have lots of genuine scientists. Hope to see more such exciting news.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ShoutB

Star Expedition said:


> Pak must have lots of genuine scientists. Hope to see more such exciting news.




Apart from any degrading thoughts, I know Chinese know what is the level of Pakistan in S&T.


----------



## Star Expedition

ShoutB said:


> Apart from any degrading thoughts, I know Chinese know what is the level of Pakistan in S&T.



We only know that Pakistan is unbreakable.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ShoutB

Star Expedition said:


> We only know that Pakistan is invincible.



Yes it is, no doubt. Even I was about to say that


----------



## Articulate

SOHEIL said:


> @salarsikander


Horse crap.
Not a single Pakistani missile has MIRV.


----------



## Tsar Bomba

Articulate said:


> Horse crap.
> Not a single Pakistani missile has MIRV.


And you are then who have classified info about our missile system. What butt hurt you are.


----------



## dadeechi

fitpOsitive said:


> Most of the guys from India in these situations try to pull Israelis in. Nice try.



Ok. This is also already covered. Did you feel nervous for a moment that India & Pakistan would start having normal relations 











RealNapster said:


> Come on . we don't have to fire it from Islamabad.



True.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1 | Like Like:
4


----------



## RealNapster

dadeechi said:


> Ok. This is also already covered. Did you feel nervous for a moment that India & Pakistan would start having normal relations



AGAIN. we don't have to fire it from Quetta. It's TEL based missile. can be fired from ANY part of the country.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## fitpOsitive

dadeechi said:


> Ok. This is also already covered. Did you feel nervous for a moment that India & Pakistan would start having normal relations
> 
> View attachment 354019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.


I feel tickled when I think about the day the Kashmir issue will get resolved. This will be a death warrant to half of world arm industry.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dadeechi

RealNapster said:


> AGAIN. we don't have to fire it from Quetta. It's TEL based missile. can be fired from ANY part of the country.




I know they are moble but the range that I had for both India & Israel are based on worst case scenarios for Pakistan. Hence I flipped it from Eastern border (for Israel) to western border (for India).

This is with the assumption that Pakistan would not be firing nuclear tipped Shaheens until certain threshold have been breached. For earlier phases of the war it would be Nasrs and not Shaheens.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CHI RULES

Syama Ayas said:


> SHAHEEN 3 would need a range of 4100 KM to be launched from any part of Pakistan and still reach any part of India.


can easily hit Indoman and Nicobar Islands of India, expected Indian nuclear sites. Further in 2750KM range Pak may hit many other targets-not India specific.


----------



## Abrar Munir Rajput

Much better than Indian missile!



Viny said:


> Yes range could be 5000+ if you take it 3000+ kms close to the target and fire it
> 
> One need to understand, physics plays and important role, the coefficient of burn x fuel is not the only calculation to get the range, weight, wind direction, design and playload are other major factors too.
> 
> Given that even small achievements are boasted I would not be surprised is 2750 is extended range of S3.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## RealNapster

dadeechi said:


> I know they are moble but the range that I had for both India & Israel are based on worst case scenarios for Pakistan. Hence I flipped it from Eastern border (for Israel) to western border (for India).



Well. Missiles quoted ranges are "always" kept 2-300 km's less then the original range for the sake of many accounts. i.e; maneuverability, accuracy, maximum load, and FOS etc. .. so it will be in the range of 2900-3000 km. That, i can assure.

No one come's with the "exact" requirement range. we needed 2750 it doesn't mean it will be exactly 2750 and can not go an inch beyond.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

dadeechi said:


> I know they are moble but the range that I had for both India & Israel are based on worst case scenarios for Pakistan. Hence I flipped it from Eastern border (for Israel) to western border (for India).
> 
> This is with the assumption that Pakistan would not be firing nuclear tipped Shaheens until certain threshold have been breached. For earlier phases of the war it would be Nasrs and not Shaheens.


reduce payload, range increases

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indus Pakistan

@Beny Karachun @Solomon2 Do you guy's think time for sanctions against Pakistan like Iran?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GoldenRatio1618

dadeechi said:


> Actually Pakistan just requires a range of 3600 KM. Pakistan already has this covered...
> 
> View attachment 353873




We can Attack From Chaghi to Tel Aviv too with less kms instead from Islamabad.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Taimoor Khan

One has to remember as to why Shaheen 3 was developed. If we recall Gen Kidwai interview, the Indian base in Nicobar and Andaman Islands was the reason this system was developed.

The problem however is as follows.

If we calculate the distance from Indian Islands to the nearest possible land mass of Pakistan, it does indeed turn out to be 2750Kms. However, here is the problem with this narrative. Please refer to the exhibit below:








Is any sane person would like to believe that in the time of war, Pakistan will bring its Shaheen 3 TEL literally on the Indian border near Tharparker desert to hit Andaman, with stated range of 2750KM? Not in million years.

It will be fired somewhere within the heartland of Pakistan. I believe there are nuke missile bases in Baluchistan.







Which bring the range around 3300KM at bear minimum.

Now here is the interesting bit.






Tel Aviv from same point of launch in Pakistan is around 3100KMs.


I think the guys in SPD were trying to play cool when they say the 2750km is the exact range of shaheen 3. not one KM above. LOL

As for the Zionist scumbags, the more you prop your Hindu fundamentalist buddies against us, by default. NOT by designed, you will be fu**** in the process.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dadeechi

pakistanipower said:


> reduce payload, range increases



MIRV = Increasing Payload = Decreasing Range

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Beny Karachun

Kaptaan said:


> @Beny Karachun @Solomon2 Do you guy's think time for sanctions against Pakistan like Iran?


Arrow 3 long range Anti Ballistic Missile (ABM), Anti Satellite missile (ASAT)








Davids Sling long range SAM, Anti Cruise Missile, Anti Aircraft, Anti Ballistic Missile (ABM)









Down goes your crappy little missile. What comes in response?

A Jericho 3 11500 kilometer ICBM
A Jericho 2 with over 1400 kilometers range 
A Turbo Popeye SLCM with 1500 kilometers range
Not good for your country


----------



## HRK

dadeechi said:


> Ok. This is also already covered. Did you feel nervous for a moment that India & Pakistan would start having normal relations
> 
> View attachment 354019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.



nice trick you are using Miles not Kilometers ....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indus Pakistan

I have healthy respect for Israel so normally don't fence with Israeli's but let's make a exception here. This guy is too cocky for my liking.



Beny Karachun said:


> Down goes your crappy little missile


Does it sunshine? Let me guess your gonna uses all those American Patriot derived systems to knock it down. Okay, okay but you are aware any system can be overloaded. Fire 300 missiles simultanously with only ten 'live'' with nukes and your Sling or whatever is going to get confused. All it would take is just one Shaheen to get through and you my son are going to wish that your grandad had not migrated from Germany or whatever part of Europe your pedigree is from. Taking a chance with Nazis in Europe would have been the smart choice back in 1940s before yeh hopped on those migrant boats packed like sardine cans and landed in Palestine as asylum seekers.

On top of that if I were in charge of Pakistan and I felt like fingering the tiny Isreali anus and let's face it, it is tiny. Funnily enough quite the opposite of that huge mass of shite on the east of us, which I like calling the Ganga. Which is of course so huge that the word huge does not quite convey it's size. Which of course is a b*tch for Pakistan. Since sometimes size is all that matters.

Going back to Israel there are lots of bearded jihadi types hanging around your neighbourhood. There are lot of those types in Pakistan and they both sort of love each other - not gay type of love but still they both have proper hard on for each other. Now how would you feel son, if you found out hundreds of those bearded types had suddenly got free of cost nukes - miniature nukes? Going back to size Israel is so narrow that if you gave loud shout it would cross the country.

Think the problems IDF would have in stopping walking, talking *nuke suicide bombers*? Hell they would not even have to go into Israel. Just a few suicide explosions near the border would suddenly see a 80% reduction in population of world Jewry.

They would go off to meet their whatever number of virgins and you would be enjoying a nuclear vacation.

*Bottom line*. Pakistan does not want to mess with Israel and I can tell you with certainty neither does Israel. Pakistan ain't no A-rabs - supposedly your Semite brothers. Maybe that is why your Papa America when asked what keeps him awake replied "Pakistan".

Sommat you need to keep in mind ...

Shalom !

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Blue Marlin

Kaptaan said:


> I have healthy respect for Israel so normally don't fence with Israeli's but let's make a exception here. This guy is too cocky for my liking.
> 
> 
> Does it sunshine? Let me guess your gonna uses all those American Patriot derived systems to knock it down. Okay, okay but you are aware any system can be overloaded. Fire 300 missiles simultanously with only ten 'live'' with nukes and your Sling or whatever is going to get confused. All it would take is just one Shaheen to get through and you my son are going to wish that your grandad had not migrated from Germany or whatever part of Europe your pedigree is from. Taking a chance with Nazis in Europe would have been the smart choice back in 1940s before yeh hopped on those migrant boats packed like sardine cans.
> 
> On top of that if I were in charge of Pakistan and I felt like fingering the tiny Isreali anus and let's face it, it is tiny. Funnily enough quite the opposite of that huge mass of shite on the east of us, which I like calling the Ganga. Which is of course so huge that the word huge does not quite convey it's size. Which of course is a b*tch for Pakistan. Since sometimes size is all that matters.
> 
> Going back to Israel there are lots of bearded jihadi types hanging around your neighbourhood. There are lot of those types in Pakistan and they both sort of love each other - not gay type of love but still they both have proper hard on for each other. Now how would you feel son, if you found out hundreds of those bearded types had suddenly got free of cost nukes - miniature nukes? Going back to size Israel is so narrow that if you gave loud shout it would cross the country.
> 
> Think the problems IDF would have in walking, talking nuke suicide bombers? Hell they would not even have to go into Israel. Just a few suicide explosions near the border would suddenly see a 80% reduction in population of world Jewry.
> 
> *Bottom line*. Pakistan does not want to mess with Israel and I can tell you with certainty neither does Israel. Pakistan ain't no A-rabs - supposedly your Semite brothers. Maybe that is why your Papa America when asked what keeps him awake replied "Pakistan".
> 
> Sommat you need to keep in mind ...
> 
> Shalom !


damn! mind you the pic of the arrow 3 is not the arrow 3, its the arrow 2. and the davids sling is an advanced variant of the patriot missile now called paac-4 since the missile was develop in partnership with ratheon. which means uncle sam can veto its sale which it did do when india tried to buy it. and the same applies to the arrow series as that developed by boeing and israel and its part funded by the us too.
never underestimate the the adversary. for a country like israel its done very well considering the neighbourhood.


----------



## Indus Pakistan

Blue Marlin said:


> for a country like israel its done very well considering the neighbourhood.


Do you know what a parasite is? Highly developed parasites are some of the most successful organisms on earth. Israel is parasite that is attached in geography of the Middle East but has feeders sucking all the way to USA. As long as the idiot right fringe Christian 'Jesus will return' are rolling in America - Israel is guranteed the best protection on earth - from the only super power USA.

With USA in your pocket you think few Bedoiun Arabs were going to defeat the Zionists - not a chance a in hell. Zionism was born and furnished in the First World. It then transposed itself into the Third World. Who do you think was going to win. 1st World or 3rd World?

We already saw similar odds when those feather in cap Apaches faced the settlers from the Old World. In that historical meet between New and Old World we know who prevailed. In this instance same thing although differant time, differant place.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## WarFariX

Beny Karachun said:


> We wont use any Patriots, I assure you that, I just showed you the missiles we will use.
> Yeah and you think you have 300 ballistic missiles, or the capability to launch them all simultaneously? Not a single, crappy ballistic missile of yours will be able to get inside our territory.
> Unlike your crappy obsolete air defense, our is well made and is the most advanced in the world, and much cheaper and efficient than any Russian, Chinese or American missile defense systems.
> Also I bet you don't even have the capability to produce enough of your useless ballistic missiles with your inefficient, tiny economy when a country with 25 times less population has a smaller GDP than Israel.
> 
> You wont be able to enter Israel with nukes and there is no such thing as "nuke suicide bombers", there are no nuclear warheads small enough to be lifted by a man that is able to destroy an area larger than a few square kilometers.
> 
> You are Muslim, you are all the same, same mentality and the same IQ if you know what I mean.
> Don't worry, soon the Muslim world will have no capability to react to any attack, the right wing rises in every NATO country and non NATO major ally in the world, except Turkey.


stay in ur dreams shit.....turkey is playing with u all wisely now


----------



## WarFariX

Beny Karachun said:


> We wont use any Patriots, I assure you that, I just showed you the missiles we will use.
> Yeah and you think you have 300 ballistic missiles, or the capability to launch them all simultaneously? Not a single, crappy ballistic missile of yours will be able to get inside our territory.
> Unlike your crappy obsolete air defense, our is well made and is the most advanced in the world, and much cheaper and efficient than any Russian, Chinese or American missile defense systems.
> Also I bet you don't even have the capability to produce enough of your useless ballistic missiles with your inefficient, tiny economy when a country with 25 times less population has a smaller GDP than Israel.
> 
> You wont be able to enter Israel with nukes and there is no such thing as "nuke suicide bombers", there are no nuclear warheads small enough to be lifted by a man that is able to destroy an area larger than a few square kilometers.
> 
> You are Muslim, you are all the same, same mentality and the same IQ if you know what I mean.
> Don't worry, soon the Muslim world will have no capability to react to any attack, the right wing rises in every NATO country and non NATO major ally in the world, except Turkey.


i will ask mods to ban u since u have involved religion here


----------



## Salza

Beny Karachun said:


> We wont use any Patriots, I assure you that, I just showed you the missiles we will use.
> Yeah and you think you have 300 ballistic missiles, or the capability to launch them all simultaneously? Not a single, crappy ballistic missile of yours will be able to get inside our territory.
> Unlike your crappy obsolete air defense, our is well made and is the most advanced in the world, and much cheaper and efficient than any Russian, Chinese or American missile defense systems.
> Also I bet you don't even have the capability to produce enough of your useless ballistic missiles with your inefficient, tiny economy when a country with 25 times less population has a smaller GDP than Israel.
> 
> You wont be able to enter Israel with nukes and there is no such thing as "nuke suicide bombers", there are no nuclear warheads small enough to be lifted by a man that is able to destroy an area larger than a few square kilometers.
> 
> You are Muslim, you are all the same, same mentality and the same IQ if you know what I mean.
> Don't worry, soon the Muslim world will have no capability to react to any attack, the right wing rises in every NATO country and non NATO major ally in the world, except Turkey.



Neither we nor you can go ahead and attack us.


----------



## Indus Pakistan

Beny Karachun said:


> GDP than Israel


Parasite.



Beny Karachun said:


> same IQ


I am not the one who has to live with the realty of knowing 6 million of my grandad's generation were live cooked after having their teeth extracted. You can play all the cocky you like but your not going to escape from the way your people were treated - like vermin that needed cleansing. Hey you so smart you even got a day named for it - Holocaust. Proud?

And should that right wing rise they will go after you - like they did before. Don't forget the right wing blame everything on the ZOG.



Beny Karachun said:


> IQ


Do you even know what that means?



MarvellousThunder@PDC said:


> i will ask mods to ban u since u have involved religion here


Don't. It is much better to whip these parasites then ban them.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## IceCold

Beny Karachun said:


> We wont use any Patriots, I assure you that, I just showed you the missiles we will use.
> Yeah and you think you have 300 ballistic missiles, or the capability to launch them all simultaneously? Not a single, crappy ballistic missile of yours will be able to get inside our territory.
> Unlike your crappy obsolete air defense, our is well made and is the most advanced in the world, and much cheaper and efficient than any Russian, Chinese or American missile defense systems.
> Also I bet you don't even have the capability to produce enough of your useless ballistic missiles with your inefficient, tiny economy when a country with 25 times less population has a smaller GDP than Israel.
> 
> You wont be able to enter Israel with nukes and there is no such thing as "nuke suicide bombers", there are no nuclear warheads small enough to be lifted by a man that is able to destroy an area larger than a few square kilometers.
> 
> You are Muslim, you are all the same, same mentality and the same IQ if you know what I mean.
> Don't worry, soon the Muslim world will have no capability to react to any attack, the right wing rises in every NATO country and non NATO major ally in the world, except Turkey.


Before getting a hard on and wetting yourself go on and read about Yom Kippur war and Pakistan's role in it. We were not even flying our jets but Syrian. You really think you can take us on. lol Talk about delusions. Pakistan has no beef with Israel but if you continue to poke us through your buddy India, rest assured you will get a taste of your own medicine soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indus Pakistan

@Beny Karachun

_"The Nasr, as a technology demonstrator, establishes Pakistan’s ability to* miniaturize* nuclear warheads for other short-range ballistic and cruise missile systems, which would help further stabilize nuclear deterrence and credibility in the region"
_
Link > http://carnegieendowment.org/2016/0...apons-and-their-impact-on-stability-pub-63911

Missiles like Nasr and Raad establish that Pakistan has developed tactical nuclear warheads. The Ra'ad is cruise missile and Nasr short range missile both deployed in front line units which provide tactical nuclear capability and fit in with the wider strategic nuclear nissiles.

These weapon systems are meant for theatre or local use therefore they do not go into the upper reaches of the atmosphere or even reach high altitides. The Ra'ad skirts along at very low altitude and therefore is very dofficult to take out. From fire to target is matter of minutes because of it's tactical profile.

Now imagine if these fell in the hands of your virgin loving brigade just outside of your borders? Few hits from these and Israel is, well history. Pakistan could easily swamp Jordan, Syria, Iran with these. Maybe even do bazaar special and hand few of these miniature warheads to Hezbollah. Apparently they do have some rudimentary knowledge of missiles. Being as they are few dozen miles from your borders it would be quite easy for them to 'sling' - no pun intended, a few of them over.

Bottom line: Pakistan and Israel don't want to have a tangle with each other. You have your hands tied with A-rabs, Pakistan has it's hands tied with G-anga Injuns. So let us leave it at that.

Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasr_(missile)`
Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatf-VIII_(Ra'ad)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Indus Pakistan

Clarification: I have nothing against Jews and or Israel. The way I see it Palestine/Israeli dispute is between a migrant primarily European settlers and the native primarily Palestinian Arab population. Religion has nothing to do with this. If we assume that Israeli's settlers were Muslim's the dispute would still have taken place. As a example Pakistan has problem with Afghan refugees. These refugees are from next door and in many cases are indistinguishable from the local population either by ethnic or religion. Yet there is widespread anger against this group.

Now for a second countenance this - what if those Afghan's kicked native Pakistani's off their land and set up their own towns would Pakistani's excuse them because they are 'Muslim'. I doubt it.

Theefore the Palestine/Israeli dispute is about land. One group of migrants primarily from Europe. The other Palestinian. To underline this the Christian Palestinians have been as if not more outspoken of Isreal. examples are George Habash, Edward Said or Hanan Ashrawai.

Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Habash

Therefore this dispute has nothing to do with Pakistan. In fact I think Pak should recognize Israel as matter of strategic self interest. I am sure the Chinese would counsil them same.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Neptune

Beny Karachun said:


> We wont use any Patriots, I assure you that, I just showed you the missiles we will use.
> Yeah and you think you have 300 ballistic missiles, or the capability to launch them all simultaneously? Not a single, crappy ballistic missile of yours will be able to get inside our territory.
> Unlike your crappy obsolete air defense, our is well made and is the most advanced in the world, and much cheaper and efficient than any Russian, Chinese or American missile defense systems.
> Also I bet you don't even have the capability to produce enough of your useless ballistic missiles with your inefficient, tiny economy when a country with 25 times less population has a smaller GDP than Israel.
> 
> You wont be able to enter Israel with nukes and there is no such thing as "nuke suicide bombers", there are no nuclear warheads small enough to be lifted by a man that is able to destroy an area larger than a few square kilometers.
> 
> You are Muslim, you are all the same, same mentality and the same IQ if you know what I mean.
> Don't worry, soon the Muslim world will have no capability to react to any attack, the right wing rises in every NATO country and non NATO major ally in the world, except Turkey.



You kidding? Since 2015 there's a sharp increase on nationalist behaviors in Turkish society.


----------



## Mangus Ortus Novem

Kaptaan said:


> Clarification: I have nothing against Jews and or Israel. The way I see it Palestine/Israeli dispute is between a migrant primarily European settlers and the native primarily Palestinian Arab population. Religion has nothing to do with this. If we assume that Israeli's settlers were Muslim's the dispute would still have taken place. As a example Pakistan has problem with Afghan refugees. These refugees are from next door and in many cases are indistinguishable from the local population either by ethnic or religion. Yet there is widespread anger against this group.
> 
> Now for a second countenance this - what if those Afghan's kicked native Pakistani's off their land and set up their own towns would Pakistani's excuse them because they are 'Muslim'. I doubt it.
> 
> Theefore the Palestine/Israeli dispute is about land. One group of migrants primarily from Europe. The other Palestinian. To underline this the Christian Palestinians have been as if not more outspoken of Isreal. examples are George Habash, Edward Said or Hanan Ashrawai.
> 
> Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Habash
> 
> Therefore this dispute has nothing to do with Pakistan. In fact I think Pak should recognize Israel as matter of strategic self interest. I am sure the Chinese would counsil them same.


.


It is imperative really... this recognition business. 


Your Truk brothers have done it. Jordam. Eygpt. Tunisia.. all of North Africa actually. Even Indonesia under the table.

Besides, it is truly win-win for both parties if/when this recognition happens... your GCC brothers are already in bed with the Israelis... so, yes. Why not.

What Pak needs to do is come up, first and far most, a top 9 list of National Interests Doc... 

I fear you might have to write it for them! Since no one in your old country writes, sadly.

Out of these National intersts cometh the policy, diplomacy and business. 


When will asleep awake?


How would you go about it, young brother?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beny Karachun

MarvellousThunder@PDC said:


> i will ask mods to ban u since u have involved religion here


Oh yeah?


Kaptaan said:


> Just a few suicide explosions near the border would suddenly see a 80% reduction in population of world Jewry.



Also your Turkey is being played, soon we will rise even more above all of you.



Neptune said:


> You kidding? Since 2015 there's a sharp increase on nationalist behaviors in Turkish society.


There is a difference between right wing in Israel and right wing in Turkey, they hate each other.



Kaptaan said:


> @Beny Karachun
> 
> _"The Nasr, as a technology demonstrator, establishes Pakistan’s ability to* miniaturize* nuclear warheads for other short-range ballistic and cruise missile systems, which would help further stabilize nuclear deterrence and credibility in the region"
> _
> Link > http://carnegieendowment.org/2016/0...apons-and-their-impact-on-stability-pub-63911
> 
> Missiles like Nasr and Raad establish that Pakistan has developed tactical nuclear warheads. The Ra'ad is cruise missile and Nasr short range missile both deployed in front line units which provide tactical nuclear capability and fit in with the wider strategic nuclear nissiles.
> 
> These weapon systems are meant for theatre or local use therefore they do not go into the upper reaches of the atmosphere or even reach high altitides. The Ra'ad skirts along at very low altitude and therefore is very dofficult to take out. From fire to target is matter of minutes because of it's tactical profile.
> 
> Now imagine if these fell in the hands of your virgin loving brigade just outside of your borders? Few hits from these and Israel is, well history. Pakistan could easily swamp Jordan, Syria, Iran with these. Maybe even do bazaar special and hand few of these miniature warheads to Hezbollah. Apparently they do have some rudimentary knowledge of missiles. Being as they are few dozen miles from your borders it would be quite easy for them to 'sling' - no pun intended, a few of them over.
> 
> Bottom line: Pakistan and Israel don't want to have a tangle with each other. You have your hands tied with A-rabs, Pakistan has it's hands tied with G-anga Injuns. So let us leave it at that.
> 
> Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasr_(missile)`
> Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatf-VIII_(Ra'ad)


Please, look at what I said, again.
I said that there are no nuclear bombs that can be carried by a man to destroy more than a few square kilometers.
You wont be able to sneak any nuclear warhead buddy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2013_Rif_Dimashq_airstrike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sudan_airstrikes
We have worked even in Sudan, this is an example of our intelligence services.
We actually have a good intelligence service, also, those are not "miniaturized" warheads, as you can see its quite big.
What comes in response? A little bit of Delilahs




Some Turbo Popeyes






And more Jerichos, Turbo Popeye SLCM and such that do not have pictures.

Delilah Cruise Missile (Air launched, Ground launched): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delilah_(missile)
Popeye Cruise Missile (Air launched, Submarine launched): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popeye_(missile)
Jericho 3 Ballistic Missile (Silo launched, Vehicle launched): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho_(missile)#Jericho_III

Also, "Whip"? By now all you did is show me some weapons that you claim you can both smuggle and go through our defense lines, and call me a parasite when I gave you facts. You said we are tiny, yet we have higher GDP than you, better infrastructure and THE TALIBAN DOESN'T CONTROL HUGE PARTS OF OUR COUNTRY.



IceCold said:


> Before getting a hard on and wetting yourself go on and read about Yom Kippur war and Pakistan's role in it. We were not even flying our jets but Syrian. You really think you can take us on. lol Talk about delusions. Pakistan has no beef with Israel but if you continue to poke us through your buddy India, rest assured you will get a taste of your own medicine soon.


Yom Kipor war? When we stopped an army of Syrian 500 tanks (T-62s, T-55s) with less than 30 tanks (Centurions)? The one that we destroyed the whole Syrian air force? Or the one that we stopped the whole 60,000 men Egyptian third army, captured 8000 of them and encircled them, destroyed both the Syrian and the Egyptian navies, destroyed about 3/4s of Egypt's air force which lead them to cry for a cease fire? 2 more days and the Egyptian third army would die from dehydration. Without the US telling us to accept the cease fire we would have had Cairo under our flag.


----------



## SOHEIL



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Agent Arif Asif Mangi

Pakistan Zindabad

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Safriz

Entirely possible , looking at the fact thst Shaheen-3 carries a warhead just 500 kg or less in weight.


----------



## Soldier-Boy

شاھین میزایل said:


> Entirely possible , looking at the fact thst Shaheen-3 carries a warhead just 500 kg or less in weight.


Do you now how do maths? really 
@The Deterrent 
Kids gona be kids.
just adding few more feet of fuel with same rocket motor / aero dynamics can't increase range that much.
I am not scientist or engineer but still found it un-rational.

when you are increasing the length and weight without improving engine and solid fuel material even the twice the size of rocket could travel only 25% to its original clone.


----------



## Safriz

Soldier-Boy said:


> Do you now how do maths? really
> @The Deterrent
> Kids gona be kids.
> just adding few more feet of fuel with same rocket motor / aero dynamics can't increase range that much.
> I am not scientist or engineer but still found it un-rational.
> 
> when you are increasing the length and weight without improving engine and solid fuel material even the twice the size of rocket could travel only 25% to its original clone.


Its not just extra fuel. Its also an extra stage. 
Also Shaheen -2 carries the older heavier warhead. Shaheen-3 carries newer smaller, lighter warhead. So there are many factors at work here.


----------



## Soldier-Boy

شاھین میزایل said:


> Its not just extra fuel. Its also an extra stage.
> Also Shaheen -2 carries the older heavier warhead. Shaheen-3 carries newer smaller, lighter warhead. So there are many factors at work here.


*Apni Shou-mai Qismat pe roaan ya teri kam aqli pe,
Faisla na hoska ham se kiya taqdeer hai hamari.*

Keep living in delusion.

We have paper work which never approve by military or Govt to go beyond limits *"Jahan k parr jaltay hien."
The day Pakistan go beyound or reach Israel we would become N.Korea.*


----------



## Safriz

Soldier-Boy said:


> *Apni Shou-mai Qismat pe roaan ya teri kam aqli pe,
> Faisla na hoska ham se kiya taqdeer hai hamari.*
> 
> Keep living in delusion.
> 
> We have paper work which never approve by military or Govt to go beyond limits *"Jahan k parr jaltay hien."
> The day Pakistan go beyound or reach Israel we would become N.Korea.*


You are writing rubbish.
Come back when you have sone valid arguments instead of some shair o shairi.


----------



## The Deterrent

Soldier-Boy said:


> Do you now how do maths? really
> @The Deterrent
> Kids gona be kids.
> just adding few more feet of fuel with same rocket motor / aero dynamics can't increase range that much.
> I am not scientist or engineer but still found it un-rational.
> 
> when you are increasing the length and weight without improving engine and solid fuel material even the twice the size of rocket could travel only 25% to its original clone.


That's what happens when people get addicted to optimism.



Soldier-Boy said:


> We have paper work which never approve by military or Govt to go beyond limits *"Jahan k parr jaltay hien."
> The day Pakistan go beyound or reach Israel we would become N.Korea.*


While this was true in the past, it will not remain true in the future. However this has less to do with our little friend. Indian intentions regarding nuclear war posturing have been rapidly turning hostile, and Shaheen-III simply can't give Pakistan ample breathing space.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## CriticalThought

The Deterrent said:


> That's what happens when people get addicted to optimism.
> 
> 
> While this was true in the past, it will not remain true in the future. However this has less to do with our little friend. Indian intentions regarding nuclear war posturing have been rapidly turning hostile, and Shaheen-III simply can't give Pakistan ample breathing space.



But sir, before that we need a nuclear submarine.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Deterrent

CriticalThought said:


> But sir, before that we need a nuclear submarine.


We don't really need an SSN (SSKs with AIP can do a pretty fine job), but Pakistan will 'build' one soon. As far as SSBNs are concerned, kindly take a look at the nation's wallets.

Reactions: Like Like:

4


----------



## CriticalThought

The Deterrent said:


> We don't really need an SSN (SSKs with AIP can do a pretty fine job), but Pakistan will 'build' one soon. As far as SSBNs are concerned, kindly take a look at the nation's wallets.



With the SSBN option, India can theoretically launch an attack on us from the vastness of the five oceans. In order to have a credible second strike, it must be as elusive as the enemy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

CriticalThought said:


> But sir, before that we need a nuclear submarine.


Well that is not happening any time soon. BUT lets say it does, please advice the following:

1) Number of boomers
2) Price per boomer
3) SLBM for each boomer
4) An optimum location for a permanent base east of the Andaman's.

Thank You

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Its actually 15,000km Typo , we have external tanks which can be used when needed for hot persuit

Hope that US intelligence should fix this Typo error quickly

You see we have enhaned the Missiles to have extra capacity








If Trump does not watches his filthy mouth we will send a live demo to his Trump tower for fireworks


----------



## denel

My view is there is an IRBM/ICBM either or both but will not be surprised if it was being towed and collaborated with N.K as part of their testing.


----------



## Arsalan 345

i have been telling all my indian friends here that pakistan have developed everything to counter india.pakistani missiles actual ranges are beyond understanding of our indian friends.as i mentioned earlier in a thread,don't consider raad alcm 300 km.in case you provoke pakistan,you will pay equal price.


----------



## ziaulislam

Arsalan 345 said:


> i have been telling all my indian friends here that pakistan have developed everything to counter india.pakistani missiles actual ranges are beyond understanding of our indian friends.as i mentioned earlier in a thread,don't consider raad alcm 300 km.in case you provoke pakistan,you will pay equal price.


Honestly for that size raad having 300 range doesn't make sense
A glide bomb will give you 100km


----------



## khanasifm

http://www.nasic.af.mil/Portals/19/...eat_Final_small.pdf?ver=2017-07-21-083234-343


----------

