# Military Related Questions



## EagleEyes

Post your military related questions here.

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## mohammadkhan70

Assalam Alikum

Does anyone know the # of fighter jets that India and Pakistan have.


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## EagleEyes

Thank you for using this thread. 

Well, there isn't always an accurate answer for this, but if you add up all these, you might get the estimate number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Air_Force

Third number is the current aircrafts number.



> Pakistan Air Force Aircraft Fleet Aircraft Inducted Attrition Current Role
> Lockheed Martin F-16A Block-15 30* 6 24* Multi-Role
> Lockheed Martin F-16B Block-15 12 2 11 Training & Multi-Role
> Chengdu F-7PG 48 2 55 Interceptor
> Chengdu FT-7PG 9 0 9 Training
> Chengdu F-7MP Skybolt 120 30? 155 Interceptor & Ground-Support
> Chengdu FT-7P Skybolt 15 ?? ~15 Training
> Dassault Mirage ROSE-I (Mirage-IIIEA) (Refurbished: Ex-Australian) 32 4 28 Interceptor
> Dassault Mirage ROSE-I (Mirage-IIIDP) 5 1 4 Training & Interceptor
> Dassault Mirage ROSE-II (Mirage-VEF) (Refurbished: Ex-French) 19 3 16 Strike & Ground-Support
> Dassault Mirage ROSE-II (Mirage-VDF) (Refurbished: Ex-French) 6 0 6 Training & Strike & Ground-Support
> Dassault Mirage ROSE-III (Mirage-VEF) (Refurbished: Ex-French) 14 0 14 Precision Strike
> Dassault Mirage-IIIEP 18 6 16 Interceptor & Ground-Support
> Dassault Mirage-IIIEL (Refurbished: Ex-Lebanese) 10+1DP 0 11 Interceptor & Ground-Support
> Dassault Mirage-IIIDA (Refurbished: Ex-Australian) 7 0 7 Training
> Dassault Mirage-IIIRP 13 3 12 Reconnaissance
> Dassault Mirage-VPA3 12 3 9 Naval Support
> Dassault Mirage-VPA2 18 3 30 Ground Support
> Dassault Mirage-VPA 28 7? 28 Ground Support
> Dassault Mirage-VDPA2 2 0 30 Training
> Dassault Mirage-V (Refurbished: Ex-Libyan?!) ? ? 10+??
> Nanchang Q-5/A-5C 52 12+ 48 Ground-Support & Tactical Strike (Currently being phased out).
> Chengdu FT-6 ~15 ?? 15 Fighter Conversion (Advanced Jet Training)
> Chengdu FT-5 ~20 ?? 25 Fighter Conversion (Advanced Jet Training)
> Hondgu K-8 12 0 12 + (27 on order) Basic & Intermediate Jet Training
> Cessna T-37 20 ?? 20+ Basic Jet Training
> Super Mushak MFI-395 20 ?? 20+ Primary Training
> Mushak MFI-17 80 ?? 80+ Primary Training
> Falcon DA-20 2 0 2 ELINT/ECM
> Lockheed Martin C-130B/E 16 6? 30 Medium-Lift Transport
> Antonov An-26 'Curl' 1 0 1 Medium-Lift Transport
> CN-235 4 0 4 V.I.P & Light-Lift Transport
> HAMC Y-12(II) 1 0 1 Light-Lift Transport
> Boeing 707 3 0 3 VIP Transport
> Fokker F-27 200 2 0 2 Light Transport
> Falcon-20 1 0 1 VIP Transport
> Super King Air 1 0 1 Light Transport
> L-100 1 0 1 Light Transport


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## Janbaz

mohammadkhan70 said:


> Assalam Alikum
> 
> Does anyone know the # of fighter jets that India and Pakistan have.



PAF has about 350, which include F-7, F-16, A-5, Mirage III and V while India flies around 700 composed of Mig-21, 23, 27 and 29 plus Mirage 2000, Sukhoi 30 MKI, Stepcat Jaguar and a few Mig 25 Foxbat's.


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## Janbaz

I myself have a question? Isn't there an advanced Air to Air missile instead of AMRAAM compatible with F-16 to directly counter the MKI's as it is a medium range Air to Air missile rather than a long range one?


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## Neo

Janbaz said:


> a few Mig 25 Foxbat's.


To my knowledge the Foxbat has been retired earlier this year. I believe eight were bought from Mikoyan Mig in early seventies.


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## EagleEyes

Janbaz said:


> I myself have a question? Isn't there an advanced Air to Air missile instead of AMRAAM compatible with F-16 to directly counter the MKI's as it is a medium range Air to Air missile rather than a long range one?



AIM-54 Phonenix ALRAAM was used by USN, but it is now retired. It was a pretty good long range air to air missile, and stayed active for a long period of time. 

And the below AIM-154 are used by stealth bombers. Considering the massive load it has, may be Pakistan doesn't have any aircrafts to carry them.



> AIM-154 "Anaconda" ALRAAM air-to-air missile. 50-pound Thermium Nitrate warhead, 150-mile range, ramjet engine, active-passive radar/IR guidance, max speed Mach 5, 6,000 lbs.



However, i would like to know this as well.


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## EagleEyes

More Cobras that we have ordered. Are they going to be the latest version. AH-1Z??


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## blain2

WebMaster said:


> More Cobras that we have ordered. Are they going to be the latest version. AH-1Z??




No Pakistan will stick with AH-1Fs. The F and the Z are essentially two different aircraft. Price wise too it makes sense for Pakistan to take over surplus 1Fs and modernize them with newer TOW-2B ATGMs and C-NITE etc., instead of going for brand new AH-1Zs.


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## blain2

Janbaz said:


> I myself have a question? Isn't there an advanced Air to Air missile instead of AMRAAM compatible with F-16 to directly counter the MKI's as it is a medium range Air to Air missile rather than a long range one?



The medium/Longe range missile is essentially in the same league of things. AIM-120D is the longer range solution. Part of the problem with very long range missiles (aside from issues like the size and weight of missile) is the difficulty with IFF at very long stand off ranges. Throughout the history of BVR combat, the kills at closer ranges with BVR missiles have exceeded those at extended, longer ranges...so things may change in the future with very long ranging effective BVRAAMs, but for now, expect to see missiles in the range of 70 -150km range. Technically anything beyond 20NM or so is BVR, so I believe if you have an F-16 armed with a decent AIM-120 variant and has good SA due to some other long range AEW/OTH detection capability then the missile can be used to good affect against aircraft like MKI etc.


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## Janbaz

Another question:
How much of a better performer is the Apache Longbow compared to the Cobra's in Pakistan Army's aviation arm. We all know the Apache is a real possibility in the future and is it the best helicopter there is?


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## Keysersoze

Janbaz said:


> Another question:
> How much of a better performer is the Apache Longbow compared to the Cobra's in Pakistan Army's aviation arm. We all know the Apache is a real possibility in the future and is it the best helicopter there is?



Best is a fluid term in this regards.AH-64D's are a capable platform , However the are very costly (I believe they are 35 mil!). And they are very high maintenance. There are platforms that would do what is required, yet at the same time will not cost the same as the price of a Longbow (and have the technical and embargo issues)


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## blain2

Janbaz said:


> Another question:
> How much of a better performer is the Apache Longbow compared to the Cobra's in Pakistan Army's aviation arm. We all know the Apache is a real possibility in the future and is it the best helicopter there is?



You know I could be proven wrong here but I think it will be a real mistake on the part of PAA to invest in something such as AH-64s. I am not convinced that PAA assets will have complete freedom of operation in a future war to be able to operate expensive assets like AH-64s without the threat of being shot down by combat aircraft....as such it makes sense to invest in cheaper, but sufficiently effective, platform like AH-1Fs...possibly upgraded to be able to use Hellfire ATGMs in order to double the range which can be done and was offered as a capability upgrade for the PAA AH-1Fs recently. This would allow considerable enhancement to Pakistan's anti-armour capability.


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## urooj2cool

Salaam everyone..
me just new to dis website community.
well i want to know about the specifications and requirements for joining an airforce college in pakistan.as in, what subjects do i need or what grade do i hafta pass before i can join a PAF college?Right now me studyin in a high school..and i would like to come to pakistan and join airforce and become a GD pilot..or a fighter pilot..
i tried finding this info everywhere on the internet but failed to find it.so please help me with this.
Thank you.
:army:


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## Muradk

I think we have a lot of info on joining PAF here just have to find it.


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## EagleEyes

Some important information has been posted in this thread.

https://defence.pk/forums/showthread.php?t=1790

Thanks.


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## Janbaz

*Q:* The Saab Eriye's being purchased by Pakistan, how would they fare up against the American E-3 Sentry.


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## Keysersoze

Janbaz said:


> *Q:* The Saab Eriye's being purchased by Pakistan, how would they fare up against the American E-3 Sentry.



Depends on which model of the E-3 you mean? Bear in mind the 707 is a much bigger platform. Also it is much higher maintenance. Whilst the Erieye is of lower performance it will allow PAK to operate more aircraft for longer periods. At least until the newer Chinese platforms come online....


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## Janbaz

keysersoze said:


> Depends on which model of the E-3 you mean? Bear in mind the 707 is a much bigger platform. Also it is much higher maintenance. Whilst the Erieye is of lower performance it will allow PAK to operate more aircraft for longer periods. At least until the newer Chinese platforms come online....



Just a guess on you part, how good will the Chinese AWACS will be? Groundbreaking or just on par with Eriye?

Is the Phalcon better than Eriye and if so how good is it against the newst E-3 Sentry?


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## Keysersoze

Janbaz said:


> Just a guess on you part, how good will the Chinese AWACS will be? Groundbreaking or just on par with Eriye?
> 
> Is the Phalcon better than Eriye and if so how good is it against the newst E-3 Sentry?



Well I would say the Israeli Phalcon is better than the Erieye from a technical sense. However the thing you have to remember is that the Erieye will much cheaper to maintain and there are a larger number of units (6) which will reduce airframe fatigue as well as downtime. There are also the 3 P-3 based E2c 2000's As to the Chinese AWACS I cannot answer as there is not much data coming out.
From other sources I gleaned that the E-3 was on offer but PAK turned it down as the cost would be prohibitive to run in the long term.


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## Janbaz

Q: How good is the J-10, avionically? On par with F 16 C-52 or below? And Pakistan is buying F 16 C-52 and D-52. What is the difference?

Are there western radars etc availible on use with Thunder and J-10?


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## blain2

Janbaz said:


> Q: How good is the J-10, avionically? On par with F 16 C-52 or below? And Pakistan is buying F 16 C-52 and D-52. What is the difference?
> 
> Are there western radars etc availible on use with Thunder and J-10?



Lot of questions. On the first one, the jury is out on how good J-10 is in terms of avionics...in my opinion, it has some ways to go before it will be as good as the F-16 in terms of avionics, however if PAF were to go for it and integrated western avionics with it, it would be a pretty credible capability. 

C/D is simply a designation for single seat and dual seat. Both C/D are block52 and that is the core version.

Thunder was slated to use a Grifo radar. At this point in time we do not know what PAF will do since the avionics/radar have been de-coupled from the airframe development. PAF's primary requirement for a radar in the JF-17 is that it must be capable of firing active BVR AAMs. Both Chinese and Italian radars allow that, however only after evaluations will PAF know which route to go. I think all of these issues have been discussed to great detail around here and other forums.


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## Moin91

Q: which gun is usually use in pakitan army?


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## Keysersoze

General.Moin said:


> Q: which gun is usually use in pakitan army?



We had this discussion in the "Basic training" thread. The standard rifle is the G-3 assault rifle.


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## EagleEyes

*Q1 I have been rejected twice by Inter Services Selection Board besides my outstanding educational achievements. Now I have completed my Master. Do I have another chance to apply for commissioning in Pakistan Air Force (PAF)? *

Ans: Yes, you have another chance to apply for commissioning in PAF as an SPSSC officer only. You can get further details from nearest Information & Selection centre. 

*Q2 I have done my A-level from a foreign country. I have a great passion to join Armed Forces. Can I apply for a commission in PAF?* 

Ans: Yes, you can apply for commission in General Duty Pilot GD(P) and Engineering Branches of the PAF. 

*Q3 I am 35 years old and working in a company as an accountant. Is there any place for me in Accounts Branch of PAF? *

Ans: No, you cannot apply in Accounts Branch of the PAF, because of crossing age limit. 

*Q4 I am a student of 8th class and want to become a fighter pilot in future. Guide me, how can I plan to fulfil my dreams? *

Ans: You may contact your nearest PAF Information & Selection Centre for guidance. 

*Q5 I have dual nationality. I want to serve in PAF. How can I join PAF and what will be the terms and conditions regarding nationality? *

Ans: You may contact your nearest PAF Information & Selection centre. You have to surrender your foreign nationality, after your selection and before joining the PAF. 

*Q6 What is meant by SPSSC and PC types of commission?* 

Ans: SPSSC stands for &#8216;Special Purposes Short Service Commission&#8217; and PC refers to &#8216;Permanent Commission&#8217;. The selection of SPSSC officers is carried out by AHQ Selection Board for an initial period of five years extendable to ten years. The commission may lead to PC if the candidate is found suitable later on. The selection of PC officers is carried out through ISSB. 

For more information visit: http://www.paf.gov.pk/

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## ARSENAL6

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## EagleEyes

> Is Pakistan developing its own Helicopter in the future ?



May be, but nothing is reported to the media so far. Pakistan is developing a unmanned helicopter though.



> Is Pakistan looking into VTOL technology and Airship Technology ?



May be, but not known. 




> Will Pakistan will have its own Aircraft Carrier ?



May be after 20-25 years later.



> Are Pakistan developing a Long range Air to Air Missle ?



No, Pakistan will develop AMRAAM (SD-10). There is no need for LRAAM.



> Is willbe develping larger Aircraft to rival Boeings 700 series ?



No.



> Any Chance to see pakistan to send a man in Space ?



Yes, but may be after 20-25 years.


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## ARSENAL6

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## Interceptor

> Pakistan AMRAAM how will that compare to AIM-54 Phoenix used on tomcats
> in terms of range and moveability ?



In terms of capability the SD-10 is a very capable BVR, but the AIM-54 is only for the TomCat or the F-14 and therefore, I dont really see any need to challange that the AIM-54 is very old, and the SD-10 is still in development and is reletively new/development but the SD-10 cant be mounted on US fighter jets so there is the minus point, hope that helps.



> Is Pakistan developing one man fighter subs ?



You mean one of those mini subs Pakistan has these in their inventory and I believe they do build these I read this I will show you the source if I find that magazine. At the current momment they use Italian mini subs.


> Is Pakistan developing Its own Torpedo or have anything in torpedo



Wire guided torpeadoes are a very easy development and yes they are produced in Pakistan, the system the technology that Iran has got is something to do with high speed torpeado it has to with air pockets that are created around the torpeado and this in turn makes velocity a contant and therefore the acceleration just increaces in a continuous and if you graph it would look like a upside down half parabola and than the acceleration will start become constant.



> Is Pakistan develop an UAV under water ?



Many many variations of UAV have been developed by Pakistan on its own of them the most famouse TUAV tactical UAV and the heli TUAV Pakistan has also successfuly built mini TUAV, there have been many sales of the Pakistani UAV and the USA has bought the some TUAV for its borders around the area of Mexico. 



> Does the Jf-17 have high moveabilty beyond mach 1 like f22 and eurofighter ?



No the F22 is I believe something of the price tag of 400 million and the Eurofighter I think it is till in development but both are superior designs compared to the JF-17. However, its the man behind the machine that determines the quality. However, the J-10 are being bought and as reports say that the J-10 as one hell of machine and can well beat the Euro fighter, but in fornt of the F22 it is obsolete.



> Is Pakistan's next phase is to develop a Delta wing Jf-17 ?



The Pakistani Airforce first wants to have the JF-17 in its arsenal before it can even go on the design board again. But I doubt there is such a design Pakistan will probably stick to the J-10 and buy these fighter jets then build another JF-17 upgrade.



> Will Pakistan get the A-10 tank killer ?



The A-10 I like this plane, I once asked the same question the reply was these are easy prey to the enemy.



> Any ideas if pakistan will develop slam technology ?



Dont know.



> Will Pakistan develop a gun similar to Gau 30mm avenger used on the A-10



Dont know, question why would Pakistan do that?



> Any plans for Pakistan to develop a close support anti-tank jet fighter like the A-10 ?



Well there are variouse anti tank missiles in service in the PAF and then there is the Cobra Gun Ship and that is a Air support for anti tank attack.


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## Interceptor

What type of Jet engines can Pakistan produce?


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## ARSENAL6

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## ARSENAL6

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## Keysersoze

ARSENAL6 said:


> How are they easy prey when they got huge protections ie the cockpit is surrounded by Titanuim steel, less IR signature
> 
> Going back on the question on 30mm GAU used on the A-10 Is there such a defence against such a connon (30mm)



Because it is slow and designed to operate at low levels. It would be easy pickings for a fast jet.

The 30mm is used to puncture tanks so there is probably no effective practical defence against it.


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## EagleEyes

Can't 30mm be use with Longbows or Cobras? Or they do use it?


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## Keysersoze

WebMaster said:


> Can't 30mm be use with Longbows or Cobras? Or they do use it?



This is a whole other weapons system. 

The Apache system is here

http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/apm230.htm

And the A-10 is here

http://www.military.cz/usa/air/in_service/weapons/cannons/gau8/gau8_en.htm

The Gau8 is the largest gun to be mounted on a aircraft.


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## Interceptor

ARSENAL6 said:


> Shhhhhh thats top secret :p
> 
> 
> 
> Whats your opinion on Battle harden *AirShips or blimp *should Pakistan invest such projects in the future ?
> 
> Advantages:
> Able to ferry Huge cargos
> Able use for surveillance for very long time
> Use as a platform to launch Aircraft
> Much cheaper than sea ships



These project have been interesting and US has been quoted in ordering and testing them, the system is from a UK based company building and projecting it to the defence community around the world. The problem with Airships is that they are very slow, defenceless against attacks and big targets in the air, they also are not a choice for Pakistan it is just not that effective like the C-130 or other transport systems.


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## ARSENAL6

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## ARSENAL6

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## Interceptor

> No not UAV but under water UAV, heres what i mean:
> http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Tha...or_French_Defence_Procurement_Agency_999.html
> 
> Pointless building those they are to easy to build (a) there are better dedicated systems available on the market (b) very cheap stuff unmand mine destroyer (c) and this kind of stuff is used by nearly every good navy.
> 
> 
> 
> Is Pakistan develpoing a global hawk : http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=175
Click to expand...


I dont understand why u wrote if Pakistan is building global hawk which is American and built by American . I believe you mean if Pakistan has the means to build a UCAV which is what the global hawk is. Pakistan is fairly advance in the UAV market and has many cutomers among them middle east and and america these are big ones. However, *Pakistan is at least a decade away from achieving* any thing similar to the Global Hawk the likely hood of similar project could be smart missiles and bombs before Pakistan has more know how to develop a UCAV. There is still along way to go *Pakistan has shown its ability in smart bombs* in the past decade and is developing sophisticated weapons. However, UCAV's are really the next generation air force it will require a lot of *technical know how especially in the field of micro chip systems possibe the development of a very large semi conducter.* Pakistan have *advanced Neural network systems* developed I have no knowledge if there are any such system is Pakistan however it may well be?


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## ahussains

indians have MIG 27, 29 and SU 27 and 30 Mki as compare to PAF only F16 how they counter them all alone are the Mirages and F7 are able to handle all the Indian Inventory


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## Interceptor

ARSENAL6 said:


> Shhhhhh thats top secret :p
> 
> 
> 
> Whats your opinion on Battle harden *AirShips or blimp *should Pakistan invest such projects in the future ?
> 
> Advantages:
> Able to ferry Huge cargos
> Able use for surveillance for very long time
> Use as a platform to launch Aircraft
> Much cheaper than sea ships



You were interested on this topic of Airships I believe you should read this report and think about it how it can be a value to an Airforce its a good read. Airships have been a economical system used in previous World war 1 and 2. They arent really the things that modern airforce prefers however if modified to an extent they can offer something, they are like the obsolete flopy disk and flopy drive which most people have stopped using but there a few who use it.

https://defence.pk/forums/showthread.php?t=4609


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## Keysersoze

ahussains said:


> indians have MIG 27, 29 and SU 27 and 30 Mki as compare to PAF only F16 how they counter them all alone are the Mirages and F7 are able to handle all the Indian Inventory



Mig 27 and Su-27 will be phased out of India's inventory. So it will be Mig 29's and SU-30's only. there are a number of aircraft that are available to counter them. (there are numerous threads on this subject.)

JF-17
F-16
J-10


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## Ababeel

I have a question. Few year back I have seen 2 different pics of Multiple Rocket Launcher Systems on KRL website and as far as I remember, one system was mounted on a APC like vehicle and the name was, I think "YARMUK" while another was a Truck mount system and the name was "GAZAB" or so.
Now those weapons pics on the KRL website are no more available. However we can see the remaining KRL products on IICS website, but the MRLS pics are not there.
Can any one clarify and also post the pics of Pak MRLS ?
Are these Pak MLRS:
View attachment 209


View attachment 210

If yes, what are there names?


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## Interceptor

*This isn't Pakistani MRL this a Russian MRL its the BM-11 and Pakistan has about 40 of these. The First Picture is of a Russian BM-11,* 







*
The second Picture is more Interesting that looks like a Chinnese Type 81 MRL or its just another Russian MRL BM-11 *


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## Interceptor

However, its possible Pakistan reversed engineered them and has started making a export model? 
By looking at those pictures that is what I can deduce from them.


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## Adux

Keysersoze said:


> Mig 27 and Su-27 will be phased out of India's inventory. So it will be Mig 29's and SU-30's only. there are a number of aircraft that are available to counter them. (there are numerous threads on this subject.)
> 
> JF-17
> F-16
> J-10



India has Su-27?


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## Neo

No, to my knowledge IAF never bought the Flanker.
Probably Keys meant the Mig-23 and Mig-27 to be phased out from the Inventory.


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## Keysersoze

Adux said:


> India has Su-27?



slight error on my part .........I was thinking of the MKK's

Su-27SK (Su-30MK, Su-33) Flanker Front Line Fighter Aircraft, Russia

The Su-27 (NATO designation Flanker) is the front line fighter aircraft designed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau and manufactured by Irkut Corporation. The export version is the Su-27SK. The aircraft is equipped to operate autonomously in combat over hostile territory, in escort of deep-penetration strike aircraft and in the suppression of enemy airfields. The aircraft provides general air defence in cooperation with ground and airborne control stations. A naval variant with folding wings, the Su-33, exists.

Su-27 entered production in 1982 and is in service with Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Vietnam, and is built under license in China as the F-11. A variant, the Su-30MK, has been sold to India with licensed local production. 50 aircraft were ordered from Irkut and the first entered service with the Indian Air Force in September 2002. The last was delivered in December 2004. The first of up to 140 aircraft indigenously built by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) was delivered in November 2004. China ordered 76 two-seat Su-30MKK and 24 Su-30MK2 naval fighters. Deliveries were completed in August 2004. Indonesia ordered two Su-27SK and two Su-30MK aircraft, which were delivered in September 2003, and has plans to order eight more.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su27/


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## ARSENAL6

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## EagleEyes

> and are we making free fall bombs ?



Yes, GBU series.


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## ARSENAL6

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## Moin91

How many JF-17 thunder and F-16 planes have pakistan Airforce ?


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## Muradk

General.Moin said:


> How many JF-17 thunder and F-16 planes have pakistan Airforce ?



friend just do a little search on the forum and you will find it , Go to JF-17 thread you will get your answer.


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## Bull

Keysersoze said:


> Mig 27 and Su-27 will be phased out of India's inventory. So it will be Mig 29's and SU-30's only. there are a number of aircraft that are available to counter them. (there are numerous threads on this subject.)
> 
> JF-17
> F-16
> J-10



You forgot to mention the jaguars and mirages from the current inventory. And if Mig 27 and Mig 21 are phased out you can bet by that time we have the LCA and MRCA ready.

IAF would be then left with the MKI,Mirages, jaguars,Mig 29, LCA and the MRCA(?).


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## Neo

A question for Sir Murad:

How would you rate PAF's readiness in crisis time if we come under attack?
I believe we have quite a high level of readiness, much higher to our adversaries accoring to an article in AFM.

Which aircraft provides the best point defence for our military assets such as Kahutta?


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## Muradk

Neo said:


> A question for Sir Murad:
> 
> How would you rate PAF's readiness in crisis time if we come under attack?
> I believe we have quite a high level of readiness, much higher to our adversaries accoring to an article in AFM.
> 
> Which aircraft provides the best point defence for our military assets such as Kahutta?



you remember twice Israel Air Force tried to get us the first time our radars at the border of
-------- called in and they were still very far, Our response was in 3 min we had 
52 Air Crafts in Air , The Americans told the Israelis to go back saying 
" Go back PAF is fully aware of your intentions, They are all awake" time was 1.52Am.
Now Kahuta is a different story we have what we call is a Comp Force Commander Air force is incharge ( Air Force and Army Air defense ). If someone is going towards kahuta we follow it to a certian Zone and if we can get the ememy before the zone Good for us if not let them go in because they are not comming out.
That is why I love Army Air defense Sapahi is told Sab any plane goes over you, you fire.
So he points the stinger in the Sky and says " To whom it may Concern" and fires . In 71 comming back after a mission came for landing at peshawar and the army guys started firing AAG at me so I had to turn around and land at kamra


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## Interceptor

Muradk said:


> Now Kahuta is a different story we have what we call is a Comp Force Commander Air force is incharge ( Air Force and Army Air defense ). If someone is going towards kahuta we follow it to a certian Zone and if we can get the ememy before the zone Good for us if not let them go in because they are not comming out.
> That is why I love Army Air defense Sapahi is told Sab any plane goes over you, you fire.



Anything that flys towards Kahuta you follow? Anything that flys over Kahuta is shot down even if it is a PIA plane or any other. There is already a few planes that were shot down over it in the Past, the Planes are allowed to fly at a certian region but the region is heavly defended, it is like straight line on the map, and if a plane trys to go little bit off it, it is taken down immediatly.


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## Interceptor

I will discuss later as I want to recheck my source. I do not at the momment agree I will come back on this.


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## Keysersoze

Interceptor said:


> I will discuss later as I want to recheck my source. I do not at the momment agree I will come back on this.



Interceptor, with all due respect you have a source who was in the middle of the said incident. I would accept this.


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## BATMAN

Interceptor said:


> ^
> I respect Muradk view. However, I cant understand where the Radar stuff came. It was a PIA pilot in the middle east who saw the X-number of Israeli planes and the direction he contacted Pakistan told the number and direction time of incident. I have to recheck I maybe missed a detail. I have to ask that person who also flew that day.
> 
> I really don't remember that Pakistani radars picked up the Planes.



What was the geographical location of PIA plane when it crossed IAF jets.
It can be assumed, from what you have described that it was an international flight and If pessengers also identified IAF jets than they must have been flown very close to the PIA plane.


----------



## Officer of Engineers

Muradk said:


> In 71 comming back after a mission came for landing at peshawar and the army guys started firing AAG at me so I had to turn around and land at kamra


Sir,

I don't know what bugs me more. That those bellycrawlers don't know friend from foe or the fact that they missed.


----------



## Muradk

Officer of Engineers said:


> Sir,
> 
> I don't know what bugs me more. That those bellycrawlers don't know friend from foe or the fact that they missed.



Thats why is say there moto should be ( TO Whom it may concern ) and Fire. Plus one of the biggest problems at that time was communication. And I dont blame them because when the base commander tells every one that there will be will no Air crafts landing , and than me and 2 others shown up, the Army guys thought they are Indians.


----------



## Officer of Engineers

Sir,

Without compromising any OPSEC, did you not have communications with the tower ... and the tower with the gun crews?


----------



## Muradk

We did that is why I was so pissed at them. we told ATC that formation of 3 F-86 are comming in and ATC said you are clear to land and than everthing got messey.


----------



## Interceptor

This pic shows the Pakistani work in the field of Heli drones now the pic shows the heli with four rotors, the Payload you can see is that it has cameras.

--------------------------------







Britain's first remote control police aircraft, dubbed the "spy drone", took to the skies today.

The unmanned CCTV drone, which measures only a metre wide, is fitted with the latest in CCTV cameras and can record images from a height of 500m.
*
It was originally designed for military reconnaissance but is being used in a trial by Merseyside police to monitor public disorder, large crowds and traffic congestion. The force will also be looking at how the drone could be used during firearms operations and in efforts to reduce anti-social behaviour.
*
Article continues
The controversial new spy plane was launched a day after Ian Readhead, the deputy chief constable of Hampshire police, warned that Britain risked becoming a surveillance society.

He said Britain faced an Orwellian style system of spying with cameras on every street corner.

But police in Merseyside insisted that the drone did not represent the next phase in creating a Big Brother society.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,2084801,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=11 


----------------------------------------

There is something fishy about the Pakistani TUAV Heli can you see the similarities. However, there are extra cameras on the Pakistani version but the size is about same.


----------



## Muradk

They are pretty good but noisy.


----------



## Interceptor

Muradk said:


> They are pretty good but noisy.



And break easily have a range of max of about 4 hours and that is the max, they cant return so they can fly a good 2 hours before batteries are needed to be changed . You can throw a stone and break it. It wont work with on one rotor dameged. However, do u see the similarty with the Pakistani system and the British system, what is going on.


----------



## EagleEyes

What can they provide that a UAV cannot? :S


----------



## Interceptor

WebMaster said:


> What can they provide that a UAV cannot? :S



Webby it is a TUAV what are u asking specific.


----------



## Officer of Engineers

WebMaster said:


> What can they provide that a UAV cannot? :S


Looking through a window or going down a big hole.


----------



## EagleEyes

My point is that is looks so inefficient, since it will be so big and easy to spot. Small UAVs that Pakistan already makes can do the same job. Why do we need this?


----------



## Interceptor

Well the technology will help the average Pakistani foot soldier more, it gives the army a survilance of several hudered meters the system is also able to spot enemy posistions without loss of life.


----------



## Officer of Engineers

WebMaster said:


> My point is that is looks so inefficient, since it will be so big and easy to spot. Small UAVs that Pakistan already makes can do the same job. Why do we need this?


Actually, it's not that big and I suspect that this is a mere prototype with a much bigger lens in the production model so that it can look in from 1000 metres away. 

You would see it if only against an open sky daylight background. It would not be readily visible when set against a building in the background and from a distance.


----------



## ARSENAL6

****************************


----------



## Muradk

ARSENAL6 said:


> I know Pakistan has fought against Irsael twice
> 
> one was yon kipper and the other is the six day
> 
> 
> 
> But when did this happen
> 
> who won ?
> whats the castualties ?



Check your PM


----------



## ARSENAL6

******************************


----------



## Ababeel

*The A Q Khan Research Labs developed MLRS:*

Dr A Q Khan Research Laboratories 122 mm (30-round) multiple rocket launcher system
Development/Description 

The Dr A Q Khan Research Laboratories multiple rocket launcher assembly has two groups of 122.4 mm calibre, 3.1 m long stainless steel rocket tubes arranged in three lines of five and mounted on a cradle. The assembly can either be vehicle mounted (for example, on an M35 series (6 x 6) truck as used by the Pakistan Army) or trailer mounted for towing. 

The firing mechanism is an electric type which can either be operated from a fire-control box provided in the vehicle's cabin or from a sheltered position at a distance of some 50 to 60 m from the launcher using a remote-control device connected to the launcher by cable. The rockets can be launched singularly or in salvo. Traverse of the assembly is 180Â° with elevation limits being 0 to 55Â°. The latter can be either electrically or manually controlled. The rockets are of the standard 122 mm Grad fin-stabilised type and are produced by the Pakistan Ordnance Factories. Maximum range of the system is 20,380 metres. 

Status : 

Production. In service with the Pakistani Army. 

COMPANY NAME : Dr A Q Khan Research Laboratories 
View attachment 216


Pakistani Army 122 mm (30-round) Dr A Q Khan Research Laboratories
MRS mounted on an M35 series (6 x 6) truk


----------



## sparten

Allright if MuradK could explain the whole Longenwala debacle from the airforces side. The Army swears the the AF was told and did not come to 18 divs aid. Whats the AF take on this?


----------



## Muradk

sparten said:


> Allright if MuradK could explain the whole Longenwala debacle from the airforces side. The Army swears the the AF was told and did not come to 18 divs aid. Whats the AF take on this?



Sparten my boy you know more than I do so why dont you tell your fellow forum members what really happend that day.


----------



## sparten

We got thrased. 22 Cav lost 22 Tanks to IAF Hunters and Mysters. The Army has always claimed that the AF was in the know and no-showed. I just wanted to know what the airforce;s side of the story was. 

Just curious sir. No disrespect ment.


----------



## niaz

During the 197 war, I had some friends working for Esso Fertilizer at Dharki and they claim that they were told that PAF planes will be flying over low. Instead IAF came and bombed the plant resulting in a few causualties. Also PAF was absent during PA attack on Jaiselmere front and the Armoured Brigade was left to fend for themselves.

Air Marshal Ayaz Ahmad has written that most of the PAF assets were dedicated to defend Air bases during both the wars and thus aid to PA units at the front was severely restricted. 

One can understand that since no Air Arm has infinite resources, these have to be marshalled for optimum effect. PAF has always been short of men and material. Thus if an air base is under attack at the same time as army positions. PAF high command would probably choose to defend the air bases.

It is precisely due to this enigma that there is shift towards Unified Command such as now in India. Airforce will be ordered to aid a position which the unified command desires not what the Airforce prefers.


----------



## Muradk

Naiz / Sparten 
friends it was not PAF fault because General Tikka had the same mentality as some of them have it today that Army does not need PAF they can handle it. I still remember one of his out spoken remarks " We dont need baby sitters", It was all his fault first he divided the Command PAK army was doing well in the night but at Dusk time hunters showed up which he was not expecting. When the results came in to cover his own *** he said we called PAF and they never showed up. 
I say if there were 2 Sabers that would made a lot of difference because the fighters would have gone for each other instead of taking there time and blowing PAK Tanks. They were sitting ducks , I have seen actuall footage of one of the hunters taking out Army tanks at
( RNDC)Royal National Defense College UK he missed the first time but the next time he turned around and he was so accurate that it hit the top Hatch of the tank. Tikka was trying to be General Patton not realising the our Desert/ India's Desret is not like Africa. 
After this now you all can see that after 71 every year we have 3 to 4 war games combining Army and PAF.


----------



## BATMAN

I remember reading some where that Russian engines require more maintenance as compare to there western counterparts!
What is the opinion of experts, when they compare the total life time, periodics and time required for maintenance of RD93 or AL31FN with PW or GE (F10/F101/404) etc.?
Does any one knows the MTBF of Russian engines under use in IAF and declared MTBF by respective Russian manufacturers, i.e. RD93 and AL31FN.
I want to compare modern Russian jet engines in general with western engines in terms of life time costs.

Thanks.


----------



## Ababeel

Which are the 3 longest range Fighter plane RADARs and 3 longest range AAMs?

Which are the 3 longest range Land based RADARs and 3 longest range SAMs?

Has any Russian Fighter plane downed any US Fighter Jet ever?


----------



## blain2

BATMAN said:


> I remember reading some where that Russian engines require more maintenance as compare to there western counterparts!
> What is the opinion of experts, when they compare the total life time, periodics and time required for maintenance of RD93 or AL31FN with PW or GE (F10/F101/404) etc.?
> Does any one knows the MTBF of Russian engines under use in IAF and declared MTBF by respective Russian manufacturers, i.e. RD93 and AL31FN.
> I want to compare modern Russian jet engines in general with western engines in terms of life time costs.
> 
> Thanks.



This is a fact.

The Russian engines powering the MKI (AL-31FP) have an MTBO (Mean Time between Overhaul) of 1K hours. That of the F-16 (PW or GE) is around 4K hours as an example. The difference is in the quality of the engineering and components. Russians make good stuff but the western engines are even better.


----------



## BATMAN

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20070525.aspx


> Russia always had problems building competitive engines. In order to get the power needed, they built engines that lasted only a fraction as long as Western engines. The Russian engines needed more maintenance, used more fuel and broke down more often.


 If these statistics are true than Russian engines may have cost more!
I wonder if Chinese or Indian (future) engines will be better than Russian?


----------



## Neo

Damn..we're getting RD-93 for the JF-17. Whats the MTBO for this engine?


----------



## BATMAN

Neo said:


> Damn..we're getting RD-93 for the JF-17. Whats the MTBO for this engine?


Don't worry Air Forces around the globe are full of old Russian engines and new RD93 should be better.  
I hope in comming years Russia will improve and I expect chinese to come up with a better product.


----------



## blain2

Neo said:


> Damn..we're getting RD-93 for the JF-17. Whats the MTBO for this engine?



Probably in the same league as the Russian engines (1K or a little less). With Russian engines, the key is the sparing. You have to have enough to sustain the training/operational tempo without getting bogged down by propulsion issues. US engine sparing is more costly.


----------



## BATMAN

As per information on web F-7PG in PAF service have WP-13F.
How does PAF rate there working with chinese engine.
I want to know more about running cost and MTBF / MTBO issues and comparisons.


----------



## ARSENAL6

is pakistan developing a scramjet for thier missle ?


----------



## BATMAN

Did some one knows why PAF site is not accessable.
www.paf.gov.pk 
OR is there any new address?


----------



## Muradk

yar the only thing I found out was that when they started the website only people in pakistan could open it and then everyone could open the site. And now it is gone back to the same way. When I go to the website it says Not compatible Error so I am Stuck to.
One reason could be that it had names and address/telenumbers of All PAF officer who retired.
Someone must have complained.


----------



## BATMAN

Thanks, I hope they will find a solution soon.
If you find time than please also confirm this posting.
https://defence.pk/forums/showpost.php?p=81140&postcount=30


----------



## asadkhursheed

can any one tell me the pay scale of armed force officers in pakistan?


----------



## Marathaman

Do officers and soldiers in the PA live in cantonments, or in private housing?

Also, what is the standard equipment of a Pakistani infantryman?


----------



## Keysersoze

First question I cannot answer however the second one is discussed in the folling thread
https://defence.pk/forums/showthread.php?t=3152


----------



## Ababeel

1) Are SUPARCO and other organisations working on any SLV project?
I had heard in past that KRL is about to test a SLV soon few years ago.
Please give detailed reply.
2) Also give the website name or URL of NESCOM.
3) Why there are no details of weapons systems on KRL website?


----------



## EagleEyes

> Do officers and soldiers in the PA live in cantonments



Cantonements.


----------



## air marshal

BATMAN said:


> Did some one knows why PAF site is not accessable.
> www.paf.gov.pk
> OR is there any new address?


according to PAF officials, site renovate!


----------



## hamza bin mushtaq

could somebody tell if your telecom eng deree effects ur proimotion in army,<signals>


----------



## asad ikram

why pakistan is not stronging its weapons systems with more efficent strikes


----------



## Xeric

asadkhursheed said:


> can any one tell me the pay scale of armed force officers in pakistan?



pay scale nh pocha kartay acchay bachay....if u want to serve keep the pay n income aside....
join the army if u have the guts...
otherwise now a days army officers earn a handsome amount...enuff for u to survive and fulfil ur basic needs.and if u work hard there are many options that can make u earn more money like UN missions and courses abroad...


----------



## netgeek

Can a person still apply for GD pilot after completing Bachelors in Engg. ?


----------



## buzhi132

Sling shot with ammo in the handle


Has anyone bought this type of sling shot before that holds the amo in the 
this company has free shipping to anywhere in the world and they guarantee delivery to Australia. I heard that sling shots


----------



## delta

can anybody verify that is pakistan actually planning to get a aircraft carrier is it real


----------



## Patriot

delta said:


> can anybody verify that is pakistan actually planning to get a aircraft carrier is it real



NO, that's bogus news.


----------



## Blackpearl

delta said:


> can anybody verify that is pakistan actually planning to get a aircraft carrier is it real



Thinking of aircarft carrier, yaar we cannot even have carrier based aircraft.


----------



## Lockheed F-16

Blackwater said:


> Thinking of aircarft carrier, yaar we cannot even have carrier based aircraft.



Pakistan is a defensive force with no intention to attack other countries so an aircraft carrier isn't needed at all.


----------



## Movado

Does anyone know what is the worst eyesight one can have when joining the pakistan army?

Is it -3.00?


----------



## Xeric

Movado said:


> Does anyone know what is the worst eyesight one can have when joining the pakistan army?
> 
> Is it -3.00?



It has to be 6/6 in any case.

Whether you use glasses or lenses or something else i dont know of, but the net result should be 6/6.


----------



## Movado

Great. I am glad you didn't say that contacts/glasses are not allowed!


----------



## Xeric

Movado said:


> Great. I am glad you didn't say that contacts/glasses are not allowed!



i hope you are not planning to become a GD(P)?


----------



## Movado

haha no Sir! Though there is nothing more exciting than becoming a GD(P), I have my sights set on joining the Infantry and entering SSG. I wear contacts. I will probably have to get rugged eyeglasses because changing contacts with dirty hands is a problem.


----------



## Movado

Where can i find data such as the average age of a PMA Cadet, his average height, and weight, how fast the average cadet runs, and swims, etc. Is this data posted anywhere?
Does anyone have answers for this?


----------



## Mercenary_ali

Movado said:


> Where can i find data such as the average age of a PMA Cadet, his average height, and weight, how fast the average cadet runs, and swims, etc. Is this data posted anywhere?
> Does anyone have answers for this?





You can find about the basic requirement Including the Physical standards which you have asked. Pakistan Army - Regular Commission

Well, the average height and weight and any thing relating to GC's in particular cannot be found.


----------



## Muradk

delta said:


> can anybody verify that is pakistan actually planning to get a aircraft carrier is it real



Do you know how much Area Pakistan has before IW starts.


----------



## SQ8

If I remember correctly we had it extended it a few days back...btw Murad sahab what the typical mission radius for our boys in masroor out to sea?


----------



## Muradk

santro said:


> If I remember correctly we had it extended it a few days back...btw Murad sahab what the typical mission radius for our boys in masroor out to sea?



20 miles before International water starts. And thats not towards India towards Abu Dhabi if you go towards Iran you can extend it to another 15 miles and then the American fleet is standing there they have a permanent establishment over there and they don't like visitors the buffer Zone between Iran and Pakistan is occupied by the USN Fleet.


----------



## Xeric

Movado said:


> Where can i find data such as the average age of a PMA Cadet, his average height, and weight, how fast the average cadet runs, and swims, etc. Is this data posted anywhere?
> Does anyone have answers for this?



Ali has already provided you with the where you can find the age and height info. As for the running and physical standards, now they have added the miles test in the initial test also, the standards are available on that website.

When inside PMA, you are required to complete exact 1 mile in 5~6 minutes, around 10-15 heaving, 80~100 push ups in 2 mins, rope test without using legs (only arms) etc etc. These standards tends to become more difficult as you near your commission. Moreover there are many more physical activities that you would be required to do, which you can only experience when you reach there, oh and yes i forgot to mention the endurance marches, anything around 300 miles in 5 days normally.

Some authenticated info also available at:
http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPReview/TextContent.aspx?pId=267&rnd=469


----------



## Xeric

Also have a look at the following:
Pakistan Military Academy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i'll not be 'confirming' all of that is mentioned on wiki, but it might give you some idea what you would be requited to face.


----------



## SQ8

Muradk said:


> 20 miles before International water starts. And thats not towards India towards Abu Dhabi if you go towards Iran you can extend it to another 15 miles and then the American fleet is standing there they have a permanent establishment over there and they don't like visitors the buffer Zone between Iran and Pakistan is occupied by the USN Fleet.



Yup.. remember Raja Rizwanullahs tale about his encounter with a tomcat vividly


----------



## brahmastra

Do pakistan has any piloteless training aircraft(i.e. HAL Lakshya) for the training of the army,navy or airforce crew?


----------



## TaimiKhan

brahmastra said:


> Do pakistan has any piloteless training aircraft(i.e. HAL Lakshya) for the training of the army,navy or airforce crew?



Yups, Air Defense & PAF uses such drones for practice firing exercises.


----------



## brahmastra

taimikhan said:


> Yups, Air Defense & PAF uses such drones for practice firing exercises.



can u provides the detail of that?pics will be gr8? thanks.


----------



## TaimiKhan

brahmastra said:


> can u provides the detail of that?pics will be gr8? thanks.



Check out the below link, will give u a good idea

ALBADEEY TECHNOLOGIES - PAKISTAN - Comapny Profile

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nollvllad

*any comparison of al khalid vs arjun tank.. which one would be better ?*


----------



## brahmastra

Why all army vehicle number starts with "up arrow"?


----------



## Xeric

brahmastra said:


> Why all army vehicle number starts with "up arrow"?



Basically they are Broad Arrow number plates. i think it dates from the British era, they have been using it the most.

Now as this Broad Arrow thing was used to indicate British government property and as it is related to heraldry so in Pakistan it is used for indicating military vehicles.


----------



## TaimiKhan

xeric said:


> Basically they are Broad Arrow number plates. i think it dates from the British era, they have been using it the most.
> 
> Now as this Broad Arrow thing was used to indicate British government property and as it is related to heraldry so in Pakistan it is used for indicating military vehicles.



Indian Army uses the Arrow sign too on their military vehicles.


----------



## Xeric

taimikhan said:


> Indian Army uses the Arrow sign too on their military vehicles.



Yep that's why i referred the Brit thingy as these BA number plates are used both in india and Pakistan.


----------



## pakomar

why pakistan army graduate course is closed???


----------



## Zinda Dil

Assalam-O-Alaikum Dear Members.


Mujhay aap ki help chaiay........I like Pak Army and craze to join Pak Army.

I am now in B.Com-II (IT) .......Mujhay yeh pochna hay keh Commission kay exam kay liay sirf B.A ya BSc required hota hay ya B.Com kay baad bhi hum Commission kay imtehaan day saktay hain??

Please Help me

Thanks in advance

Allah Hafiz


----------



## monitor

is it possible to equip the mrls with several type of warhead at the same time in diferent rocket i.e anti armour , airburst amunaton cluster bomb its ? and how long a mrls can goes ? do pakistan have any mrls production capability ?


----------



## Iggy

I saw a picture posted by Bezerk about the PAF Aerobatic Team - The Falcons16...Do Pakisthan Airforce still have an acrobatic team?if yes which aircrafts are they using?? Thanks in advance..


----------



## TaimiKhan

seiko said:


> I saw a picture posted by Bezerk about the PAF Aerobatic Team - The Falcons16...Do Pakisthan Airforce still have an acrobatic team?if yes which aircrafts are they using?? Thanks in advance..



T-33 & in Solo sometimes K-8, Sherdils (meaning Lion Hearts) is the name of the Aerobatic Team. Stationed at PAF Academy Risalpur.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## ace slasher

can anyone enlighten me about any new development/project/deal that pakistan is doing for arms/tech/planes??????


----------



## harishx

Can someone please highlight the offset policy associated with defence deals in Pakistan. Or if they could point me to a source, would be greatly helpful.

P.S.: Do i need to become a subscribed member to post new threads ??


----------



## TaimiKhan

harishx said:


> Can someone please highlight the offset policy associated with defence deals in Pakistan. Or if they could point me to a source, would be greatly helpful.
> 
> P.S.: Do i need to become a subscribed member to post new threads ??



can you clarify what you mean by off set policy of defence deals ?? 

No you don't need, but once you become a regular poster and have sufficient posts, you will be able to open threads also, i believe 25 or 50 post count is the figure after which you will be able to open threads.


----------



## hardtarget

why pakistan have no destroyer and no aircraft carrier


----------



## S_O_C_O_M

*How fast does the Shaheen 2 travel in mph?*


----------



## Old School

hardtarget said:


> why pakistan have no destroyer and no aircraft carrier



In short note , Destroyers play the role of escorting a flotilla or fleet . They are very heavy , make themselves bigger target and their use is in decline. Frigate/Corvettes are taking their place and we have them.

Air craft career is necessary when the area of operation/area of interest is beyond operational range of the air force. We do not have that requirement yet. Usually blue water navy use it and we are not yet a blue water navy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hulk

Nice thread, let me see if I can get my question answered here.

Hi,
I want someone who has flown a plane to help me understand this. Whenever I take a flight I wonder how does the pilot make sure that the plane is in correct position to take off. I mean when run with that kind of speed even if you are slightly off you will go off the runway. I have seen plane take a turn to main runway and then almost immediately take off.

How do they mange to do it. Also same thing in landing, how does they know they will be straight and how do they manage to know right distance to land.

I still need to understand this. 

I tried Google but the answer was very technical, I need a laymen answer.


----------



## Old School

S_O_C_O_M said:


> *How fast does the Shaheen 2 travel in mph?*



Shaheen II is a ballistic misslie.The velocity of a ballistic missile applies on three different trajectories unlike a cruise missile. These are the powered flight portion, the free-flight portion and the re-entry phase . The initial speed is around 2 Mach but that varies with the trajectory. The rest is variable but less than the initial speed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Old School

harishx said:


> Can someone please highlight the offset policy associated with defence deals in Pakistan. Or if they could point me to a source, would be greatly helpful.
> 
> P.S.: Do i need to become a subscribed member to post new threads ??



No , there is no mandatory offset policy associated in defence deals in Pakistan. It is a practice in India but we do not do that in Pakistan.


----------



## S_O_C_O_M

Old School said:


> Shaheen II is a ballistic misslie.The velocity of a ballistic missile applies on three different trajectories unlike a cruise missile. These are the powered flight portion, the free-flight portion and the re-entry phase . The initial speed is around 2 Mach but that varies with the trajectory. The rest is variable but less than the initial speed.



Thanks. Is the cruise speed still at Mach1/supersonic? 

Does after the inital take off the speed ever go below supersonic? 

What are the chances that an India can shoot it down?


----------



## Old School

S_O_C_O_M said:


> Thanks. Is the cruise speed still at Mach1/supersonic?
> 
> Does after the inital take off the speed ever go below supersonic?
> 
> What are the chances that an India can shoot it down?



When the missile enters at the re-entry phase which is the earth's atmosphere , the speed/velocity is subsonic. Ballistic missile does not cruise. It is like throwing a stone in the sky at 75deg angle which can no longer be controlled. The wind and G-force will determine it's velocity.

A ballistic missile can be shot down by most medium to long range surface to air missiles (HIMAD) .


----------



## hardtarget

Surface-to-surface missiles
Battlefield range ballistic missiles (BRBM)
Abdali-I
Hatf-I/IA
Short range ballistic missiles (SRBM)
Ghaznavi
Medium range ballistic missiles (MRBM)
Ghauri I
Shaheen I
Ghauri II
Intermediate range ballistic missiles (IRBM)
Shaheen II
Ghauri-III *
Shaheen-III *
Cruise missiles
Babur (Hatf VII) - ground launched cruise missile (submarine launched version under development)
Anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM)
Baktar-Shikan
[edit] Air-to-surface missiles
H-4 (rocket-boosted glide bomb)
Ra'ad (Hatf VIII) - air launched cruise missile
[edit] Surface-to-air missiles
Anza Mk.1, Mk.2, Mk.3


----------



## TaimiKhan

indianrabbit said:


> Nice thread, let me see if I can get my question answered here.
> 
> Hi,
> I want someone who has flown a plane to help me understand this. Whenever I take a flight I wonder how does the pilot make sure that the plane is in correct position to take off. I mean when run with that kind of speed even if you are slightly off you will go off the runway. I have seen plane take a turn to main runway and then almost immediately take off.
> 
> How do they mange to do it. Also same thing in landing, how does they know they will be straight and how do they manage to know right distance to land.
> 
> I still need to understand this.
> 
> I tried Google but the answer was very technical, I need a laymen answer.



here read these, this may help you in understanding, to be short, there is a separate nose wheel turning thing in the aircraft used for aircraft steering on the ground, while during take off, the pedals for controlling the rudder which is in the tail, but i bet in today's modern aircraft it would be the computers which would be controlling the aircraft to keep it on the runway center line. 

Read, its good and simple info:

Steering The Aircraft, How It's Done? &#151; Tech Ops Forum | Airliners.net

Keeping The Plane Straight On Takeoff And Landing? &#151; Tech Ops Forum | Airliners.net


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## Tajdar adil

Is Pakistan aquire J 11 fighters from China..


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## Hulk

Thanks Tami, my question was slightly different. If pilots are using peddles etc don't you think small error in their judgement can lead to accident. I was looking for something that kind of guarantees that wheels are aligned to start with.


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## Tuahaa

I have a question that needs answering:

Why is the army (in particular, Pakistan Army) so awesome?


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## Chogy

indianrabbit said:


> Thanks Tami, my question was slightly different. If pilots are using peddles etc don't you think small error in their judgement can lead to accident. I was looking for something that kind of guarantees that wheels are aligned to start with.



If you are still interested, the answer is very simple. On the ground, the rudder pedals are tied to the nose wheel across a very small arc, like +/- 8 degrees, more than adequate to track the centerline of the runway. When sharp turns on the ground are needed, there is a device called a tiller (like a small car steering wheel) to one side that moves the nose gear in a much larger arc.

Rolling takeoffs are a combination of tiller (to make the sharp turn onto the runway), followed by rudder pedals only. Tracking to the center line with the pedals is very easy with a bit of practice. Steering with the feet is not natural, but by the time a pilot is flying a Boeing or Airbus, it is as natural as driving down a road. You don't even have to think about it.

The only possible way to screw up is if one engine doesn't spool up, the other goes to full power, AND the pilot does not throttle back, AND the runway is slippery, AND the pilot is a moron. It simply doesn't happen.

HTH

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## BlackenTheSky

I have a question.All military and civil planes have 'blackbox' which records the massage when plane crashes,it's material is that much solid that it can't be harmed in crash whereas,plane burst into flames so,why don't company makes planes of that material so that the plane remains safe even after crash ?


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## gambit

blackenthesky said:


> I have a question.All military and civil planes have 'blackbox' which records the massage when plane crashes,...


No...Not all. And what is recorded are very limited flight data in short duration.



blackenthesky said:


> ...it's material is that much solid that it can't be harmed in crash whereas,plane burst into flames so,why don't company makes planes of that material so that the plane remains safe even after crash ?


It is not the material but the physical construction of the recorder. It is designed and constructed to be robust enough to protect the recording mechanism and medium. No more. If the crash is powerful enough, the casing can be severely damaged but as long as the recording medium, be it tape of solid state devices, survive, that is all that matter.


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## Xeric

gambit said:


> No...Not all. And what is recorded are very limited flight data in short duration.
> 
> 
> It is not the material but the physical construction of the recorder. It is designed and constructed to be robust enough to protect the recording mechanism and medium. No more. If the crash is powerful enough, the casing can be severely damaged but as long as the recording medium, be it tape of solid state devices, survive, that is all that matter.



Also if the entire plane was to be made of that 'hard' material the weight to size ratio increases - not guud for flying.


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## Tajdar adil

Plz tell me about the short comissione in Pak Army


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## Tajdar adil

I want to wrote a letter to Army chief Generl Ashfaq Pervez kayani so any tell me about the postal address of Army chief PLZ PLZ.


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## Tajdar adil

Sir i want to wrote a letter to Army chief so plz give me the postal address of Army chief.thanx


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## Tajdar adil

WebMaster said:


> Post your military related questions here.


 
I want to wrote a letter to Army chief Plz give the postal address of Army chief


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## Jango

indianrabbit said:


> Nice thread, let me see if I can get my question answered here.
> 
> Hi,
> I want someone who has flown a plane to help me understand this. Whenever I take a flight I wonder how does the pilot make sure that the plane is in correct position to take off. I mean when run with that kind of speed even if you are slightly off you will go off the runway. I have seen plane take a turn to main runway and then almost immediately take off.
> 
> How do they mange to do it. Also same thing in landing, how does they know they will be straight and how do they manage to know right distance to land.
> 
> I still need to understand this.
> 
> I tried Google but the answer was very technical, I need a laymen answer.


 
I am no pilot but i have some knowledge with the subject due to being with the pilots, on bigger aircraft it is very easy because the the larger tha plane,more the mass adn more power is required adn it is done by the rudder,on the tail of an aircraft............and while takeoff there are two types....one is rolling take off adn other is stationary takeoff.the rolling takeoff is that the airplane after taxiing adn reaching the runway does not stop to put the engines to full capacity adn check their performance,instead the plane in a continuous motion after reaching the runway commences the takeoff thrust without stopping.This is more dangerous because the engines were not checked for performance while on the runway and hence might fail.But this is the preffered method in busier airports in which the takeoff adn landing slots are open for only a few minutes.In stationary the aircraft simply stops on the start of the runway to get the engine performance and then takes of......HOPE THIS HELPS!


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## Jango

can anybody tell me where the ammunition for the cobras at multan army aviation base is stored?...anyboy who has been stationed in multan aviation base will be more helpful if the ammo is inside the base!


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## Xeric

nuclearpak said:


> can anybody tell me where the ammunition for the cobras at multan army aviation base is stored?...anyboy who has been stationed in multan aviation base will be more helpful if the ammo is inside the base!


 
^^DO you need the exact coordinates/GRs or just the general location?


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## Jango

Xeric said:


> ^^DO you need the exact coordinates/GRs or just the general location?


 
have you been to multan aviation base?....if so then yes the almost exact location.......adn also in general of the whole army i.e ammo for tanks fighter aircraft and such....where is it stored.....in infantry it is in the 'kot'...am i right?


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## Xeric

Ok.

How about i give you the location of our nukes, instead?


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## Jango

that will also be very welcome!!....but the normal ammo is what i really want to know!!


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## SQ8

What about the UFO's at Kamra? I thought those would generate a lot more interest..?
Maybe the Mig-29's with Canards in the secret base in balochistan could suffice for now...






In other words.. what do you need the locations of these things for? sightseeing?


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## Jango

no specific reason really....just wanted to know because i went there alot and never got to know about this.BTW i have never heard the MiG-29 and UFO stories....please say more about them


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## SQ8

Well.. if you did.. then usually there is a ammo dump on most bases.. 

As for the UFO.. I heard something about it..
but the Mig-29's.. there was this program on discovery a long time back..called "secrets of the NSA"..
This one was dedicated to pakistan's nukes.. and had an ex NSA guy blabbering about how a overflight by a sat caught this base in Balochistan whose description sounded like a james bond's villan's lair.. 
complete with Hangers concealed in mountains and Mig-29's with canards.. 
Hogwash.. probably...who knows.


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## Roybot

nuclearpak said:


> can anybody tell me where the ammunition for the cobras at multan army aviation base is stored?...anyboy who has been stationed in multan aviation base will be more helpful if the ammo is inside the base!


 


nuclearpak said:


> have you been to multan aviation base?....if so then yes the almost exact location.......adn also in general of the whole army i.e ammo for tanks fighter aircraft and such....where is it stored.....in infantry it is in the 'kot'...am i right?



Good God, why would need such info for  I hope ISI and all sorts of intel agencies are on your case already


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## Jango

come on people.......i am just curious because i visited the base alot!!!


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## Jango

another question.........the latest glass cockpits in the russian and american aircraft still have a diffferent look to them.....the russian glass cockpits still look kind of old while the american ones look sharpish....why???.......and why do the russians always have light blue kinda color on their cockpits of helis and A/C's???


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## SQ8

The russain's have their own philosophy regarding cockpit environment.. they feel the blue gets better contrast with the other instruments.
The reason the Russain jets seem to have .. as you say less sharp equipment is their "dark age" after the break up of the Union.. They lost a lot of years in R&D due to lack of funds and exodus of a few designers. It also depends on what is used in the MFD display.. LCD's or CRT's(cathode ray tube display's..like your old TV)..
Early glass cockpits used CRT's..which were not only heavier.. they were more prone to faults..
The Su-30 MKI cockpit..features LCD's from Thales.. and you can see the clarity compared to a Su-30MK cockpit...which still uses CRT's.


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## Jango

^^^^thanks for the clarification but almost all have blue....be it glass or analog!


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## SQ8

Yup.. 
Its the russian way..


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## Tajdar adil

WebMaster said:


> Post your military related questions here.


 
Sir what is the training period of Graduates cadet [i mean who joining Pak Army on BA Bsc] in PMA


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## Najam Khan

Tajdar adil said:


> Sir what is the training period of Graduates cadet [i mean who joining Pak Army on BA Bsc] in PMA


 
Its 1 year.


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## Aaqib Shah

i have 1 question why dont we get z-19 from china as it is same as that of Apache with few differences?


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## Jango

Aaqib Shah said:


> i have 1 question why dont we get z-19 from china as it is same as that of Apache with few differences?



What is Z-19?, maybe you meant WZ-10


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## mitth

Tell me that what training period on Graduate student all type of armed forces?


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## Chogy

I've heard it said that the Russians use that weird blue primer paint in the interiors because they found it to be psychologically "soothing" or something along those lines. I agree it's a bit odd (to me at least) but it takes nothing away from the jets. It's just a color after all.


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## umair-dogar

friends, i have applied at the post of SI (BPS 14) in ministry of defence.
the post was advertised at 9-nov-2010 in daily jung and dawn.
i have given my written test 6 month ealier, will anyone tell me when we'll called for interview or when the appointments will b done.
please! anyone tell me, thanx alot.


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## Jango

Chogy said:


> I've heard it said that the Russians use that weird blue primer paint in the interiors because they found it to be psychologically "soothing" or something along those lines. I agree it's a bit odd (to me at least) but it takes nothing away from the jets. It's just a color after all.



But sometimes it just looks awkward that a blue paint is put on. It really looks dull!

But everybody has their opinion!


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## alimukhtar

umair-dogar said:


> friends, i have applied at the post of SI (BPS 14) in ministry of defence.
> the post was advertised at 9-nov-2010 in daily jung and dawn.
> i have given my written test 6 month ealier, will anyone tell me when we'll called for interview or when the appointments will b done.
> please! anyone tell me, thanx alot.



well i think you have applied for a Superior Service.... y don you call dem?


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## mbilalnawaz

can anybody help me here writing a letter to the coas plz i need sum urgent help.


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## Sherry123

How to become pilot in PAF


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## sohail-khan

requirements for applying in paf as a pilot are that u shud complete min 12 years of education with science subjects and u were not rejected in issb or aptitude test twice.....then u,il be allowed to sit in initial exam,then medical ,, physical and initial interview...then u,il b called for issb....after recomended by issb...there will b a final medical.


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## fatman17

The Pakistani Defense Industry to 2016.

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Pakistan is a major non-NATO ally of the US and a significant collaborator with China in the area of defense development. The annual increases in the Pakistani defense budget are largely due to the country's long-standing territorial dispute with neighboring India and the internal instability caused by radical terrorist groups. Furthermore, the country receives substantial military aid from the US for its participation in the 'war on terror', which is used to procure advanced fighter jets and missile systems.

Over the forecast period Pakistan is expected to make procurements in areas such as submarines and submarine technology, drones for attack-grade unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), surveillance equipment and satellites for ground monitoring, fighter jets and associated support systems, air-to-air missile systems, attack helicopters and engines for the development of aerial refueling aircraft. 

Pakistan has been subjected to more than 5,000 terrorist attacks in the past five years, which have not only resulted in the death of many civilians, but have also adversely affected the country's economy as several foreign companies have ceased operations and new ones are reluctant to establish new business. 

Historically, US defense firms have entered the Pakistani defense industry through government initiated foreign military sales. Furthermore, Pakistan promotes the joint development of defense systems, which has resulted in a number of joint ventures with Chinese and German companies in areas such as submarines, trainer aircraft, fighter jets and UAVs. 



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## shaheerahmed

when is the SCEE result coming 
its already tooo late vs thier initiall claims


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## sayyieth

Asslam o Alaikum 
dear main pochna chahta hun k kia COAS k khi batt ka ammal hmari military kyun nhi kerti jub unhu n kaha hai k drone ko mar giraya jay tu phir soldier ayssa kyun nhi kerty


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## WAB

mohammadkhan70 said:


> Assalam Alikum
> 
> Does anyone know the # of fighter jets that India and Pakistan have.


only paf and iaf knows their exact # of jets.
you can take approximation from different sites..


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## Rural depths

Dear Members! I am in a dire need of your advice!
I was born to a Pakistani mother and an Indian father (both Muslims), consequently my nationality by birth was Indian. During my childhood my father died and we came Pakistan and acquired its citizenship. I did matric, fsc then completed my engineering here. Now I cleared a test and interview for a strategic organization of pakistan that deals with its defence. They have sent me forms for security clearance purposes in which I have to give details about my father. They have also asked for the name and details of any relative residing in India. I do have relatives there but I know nothing about them and I am reluctant also to provide details about my father. What should I do? Please help me out!! I couldn't find a relevant forum for it so have posted randomly but please do give me advice of what to do.


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## Gentelman

Syed Hamza Rasool said:


> Asslam o Alaikum
> dear main pochna chahta hun k kia COAS k khi batt ka ammal hmari military kyun nhi kerti jub unhu n kaha hai k drone ko mar giraya jay tu phir soldier ayssa kyun nhi kerty


who ordered to shot down drones??
no such orders are initiated by COAS.


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## Dr. Strangelove

Gentelman said:


> who ordered to shot down drones??
> no such orders are initiated by COAS.



he is talking about kiyani when he bluffed about this after salala checkpost incident


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## Rural depths

Dear Members! I am in a dire need of your advice!
I was born to a Pakistani mother and an Indian father (both Muslims), consequently my nationality by birth was Indian. During my childhood my father died and we came Pakistan and acquired its citizenship. I did matric, fsc then completed my engineering here. Now I cleared a test and interview for a strategic organization of pakistan that deals with its defence. They have sent me forms for security clearance purposes in which I have to give details about my father. They have also asked for the name and details of any relative residing in India. I do have relatives there but I know nothing about them and I am reluctant also to provide details about my father. What should I do? Please help me out!! I couldn't find a relevant forum for it so have posted randomly but please do give me advice of what to do.


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## Ali Raza Butt571

I Love My Pakistan


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## zahidiqbalrana

I love PAF... its was dream of my life to join this wing of armed forces


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## MilSpec

(not sure if I am posting in the right section, move it to an appropriate thread if needed)

@Oscar @waz @Horus @Manticore 

Hi, 
Just wondering about aluminum industry in Pakistan. Who are the producers of aluminium billets, tubes, bars etc, also which are the major foundry's which make stampings, forging, extruding and castings. Which grades of Aluminum are available and which standards are used for materials specifications in Pakistan. 
regards


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## waz

MilSpec said:


> (not sure if I am posting in the right section, move it to an appropriate thread if needed)
> 
> @Oscar @waz @Horus @Manticore
> 
> Hi,
> Just wondering about aluminum industry in Pakistan. Who are the producers of aluminium billets, tubes, bars etc, also which are the major foundry's which make stampings, forging, extruding and castings. Which grades of Aluminum are available and which standards are used for materials specifications in Pakistan.
> regards



Hi MilSpec, I'd thought the economy section would have been a better place for this question. How about creating a thread there? Thanks.


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## Jibran Ahmed

In the Pak Army, there are many cases where officers are not promoted to higher ranks due to favoritism and politics. The senior command may find it very easy to sign a decision over their files but it severely affects the lifestyles and future of a family and its generations to come. This is no new topic, there have been countless such incidents where Merit was overtaken by personal relation and liking for a senior promotion. Why doesn't the senior command have a transparent criteria set for a promotion from Brigadier to Maj-Gen level? What special analytical skills are required to decide the fate of a handful of selected people? If a person has met all the criteria, but was unfortunate enough for not being able to play golf with a corp commander, or his children were not best friends with the commander's children. Only recently I just came across such a case, where the officer was a fellow well deserving a 2 star promotion but was superseded by his junior who was famous in the corp for manipulation and politics. The gentleman's life is in a complete tail spin now, where he has been relocated to a post inferior in the status, the senior command is not supporting him in any. Why wasn't merit truly considered here?


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## Kristian

How much money Pakistan armed forces cost per year?? 

Top-20 worlds military spending??


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