# ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.



## beijingwalker

Xinjiang provincial government issued video tribute to the ethnic Uighur, Hui, Han, Mongol fallen heros giving their lives fighting terrorists in Xinjiang. 
Today's Xinjiang is a safe, zero terrorism and prosperous region where people live in peace and prosperity, thanks for those fallen heros and Xinjiang won't forget them.

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## beijingwalker

*Daughter of a martyred Uighur officer follows father's step to become a police officer*

22 years old daughter of a martyred Uighur officer follows father's step to become a police officer

Her father was the head officer of a police station in rural Xinjiang, he gave his own life protecting people from a group of terrorists in 2015, the girl was a college student back then and after her father's death she determined to become a police officer like her father, she transfered from her college to Xinjaing police academy, now she is carrying her father's unfinished task and becomes an officer protecting the country and the people.





我的爸爸，他不是我的英雄。如果他是我的英雄，他不应该站在我这边吗？不应该二十年来，对待家庭也像对待公安事业一样热血付出吗？”

是的，在小女儿喀伊热·买买提江的记忆中，买买提江·托乎尼牙孜是个比普通朋友联系还要少的父亲，他永远在忙，生活中基本没管过孩子，没顾过家庭。






http://m2.people.cn/r/MV8wXzExMjQ4MTAxXzMwXzE1MzA4NDE2MTE=

Her father, an honored national hero by the government

That girl still remembered that heartbroken moment when she learned that his father died in fighting terrorism as a freshman in college, she just couldn't believe it, after the sorrow set down she already made up her mind to become a police officer just like her father,but when she told her mother on this decision her mother wept and tried to stop her, saying " Our family had already given one life to the country, isn't that enough"! But the girl was so determined , one day she went back home wearing borrowed police uniform, her mother just broke into tears when seeing that uniform and agreed with the daughter's decision.






喀伊热·买买提江: Every time when I hear the Chinese National anthem and see the rise of the Chinese national flag, I just can't hold back my tears, they are the embodyment of my father who gave his life to the people and the country, when I see and hear them, I can feel the presence of my father again. When I was lucky enough to sing the Chinese national anthem together with president Xi during a conference in Beijing, I just could control my overwhelming emotions.

喀伊热·买买提江 talks about her story and her father who gave his life for the country, she almost cried when mentioning her father, the pain is still too strong for this young girl.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

Numerous said:


> You aren't fighting terrorism. You chinese are the terrorists in east turkestan.
> 
> May Allah make your dead soldiers suffer in lowest level of hell.
> 
> For those Pakistanis who may forget what the chinese do to uighurs https://www.apnews.com/d87ac82db56c476aa3cde047b6407eac



@Two @beijingwalker


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang SWAT Officer Dilraba*
*



*

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## SBUS-CXK

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> @Two @beijingwalker


poor indian have been crazy... 
@Get Ya Wig Split



Numerous said:


> You aren't fighting terrorism. You chinese are the terrorists in east turkestan.
> 
> May Allah make your dead soldiers suffer in lowest level of hell.
> 
> For those Pakistanis who may forget what the chinese do to uighurs https://www.apnews.com/d87ac82db56c476aa3cde047b6407eac


Baby, give up it. Xinjiang is far more developed than Pakistan. Solve your hunger problem first..

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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> You aren't fighting terrorism. You chinese are the terrorists in east turkestan.
> 
> May Allah make your dead soldiers suffer in lowest level of hell.
> 
> For those Pakistanis who may forget what the chinese do to uighurs https://www.apnews.com/d87ac82db56c476aa3cde047b6407eac


They bombed the markets and train staions in Xinjiang, targetting poor Uighur civilians, some Uighur college girl had her two feet blown away and had to stay in bed for the rest of her life, and you don't call it terrorism, Chinese police gave their lives to protect the civilians and law and order, so Xinjiang now is a zero terrorism region unlike some countries which have bombings targetting civilains on weekly basis.

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## Feng Leng

Numerous said:


> You aren't fighting terrorism. You chinese are the terrorists in east turkestan.
> 
> May Allah make your dead soldiers suffer in lowest level of hell.
> 
> For those Pakistanis who may forget what the chinese do to uighurs https://www.apnews.com/d87ac82db56c476aa3cde047b6407eac


You are just a Jew puppet not a Muslim. Go cry yourself a river for Uighurs. Nothing can stop China from asserting our power over Xinjiang.

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## Dungeness

Numerous said:


> You aren't fighting terrorism. You chinese are the terrorists in east turkestan.
> 
> *May Allah make your dead soldiers suffer in lowest level of hell.*
> 
> For those Pakistanis who may forget what the chinese do to uighurs https://www.apnews.com/d87ac82db56c476aa3cde047b6407eac



That's very evil. You don't want the same to your fallen soldiers.

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## beijingwalker

Dungeness said:


> That's very evil. You don't want the same to your fallen soldiers.


That Uighur girl's father asked the terrorists to let go of those poor Uighur villagers who were held hostage and take him instead, he died for them, unrivaled show of bravery and self sacrifice.

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## Dungeness

beijingwalker said:


> That Uighur girl's father asked the terrorists to let go of those poor Uighur villagers who were held hostage and take him instead, he died for them, unrivaled show of bravery and self sacrifice.



The hatred to China that some Pakistan members displayed here is very chilling.

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## beijingwalker

Dungeness said:


> The hatred to China that some Pakistan members displayed here is very chilling.


How come? China maybe wronged some countries in the past but China has never wronged Pakistan during the whole course of the history.

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## Dungeness

beijingwalker said:


> How come? China maybe wronged some countries in the past but China has never wronged Pakistan during the whole course of the history.



When religion comes in play, some Pakistanis may not be as "Iron Brothers" as we thought they were. Post#2 may give you a hind? And he is not alone.

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## beijingwalker

Dungeness said:


> When religion comes in play, some Pakistanis may not be as "Iron Brothers" as we thought they were. Post#2 may give you a hind? And he is not alone.


It's not a religious issue, the biggest Muslim group in China Hui Muslims live peacefully with all other ethnic groups in China, Some Uighur separatists just want Xinjiang to separate from China and becomes what they believe eastern turkestan, it's a purely separatism issue which can be found in most countries including Pakistan.

What Pakistan can get if Xinjiang indeed became a separate Muslim country? They lose their border with China, the lifeline of economic and miliatry support both in peace time and war for Pakistan. What they get maybe is just another poor backward Afghanistan or a hostile Iran and they have to build another wall along their eastern borders. Good luck for their next major conflict with increasingly threatening India.

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## Dungeness

beijingwalker said:


> It's not a religious issue, the biggest Muslim group in China Hui Muslims live peacefully with all other ethnic groups in China, Some Uighur separatists just want Xinjiang to separate from China and becomes what they believe eastern turkestan, it's a purely separatism issue which can be found in most countries including Pakistan.
> 
> What Pakistan can get if Xinjiang indeed became a separate Muslim country? They lose their border with China, the lifeline of economic and miliatry support both in peace time and war for Pakistan. What they get maybe is just another poor backward Afghanistan or a hostile Iran and they have to build another wall along their eastern borders.



It takes rational thinking to agree with you, but what some Pakistanis have shown here is "raw religious sentiment". They are just as easy prey of Western propaganda against "big bad evil commie China" as everyone else, except when it comes to India.

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## Feng Leng

Dungeness said:


> It takes rational thinking to agree with you, but what some Pakistanis have shown here is "raw religious sentiment". They are just as easy prey of Western propaganda against "big bad evil commie China" as everyone else, except when it comes to India.


It's more complex than that. American money and American institutions over decades have corrupted the elites of many Muslim countries (except for ex-Soviet states). These are the people (Zionist "Muslims") most easily swayed by Jew propaganda.

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## Dungeness

Feng Leng said:


> It's more complex than that. American money and American institutions over decades have corrupted the elites of many Muslim countries (except for ex-Soviet states). These are the people (Zionist "Muslims") most easily swayed by Jew propaganda.




In a religious society, common folks would easily fall prey if people with ulterior motives pay religion card to them. "Deeper than ocean, higher than mountain" would not stand a chance.

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## Feng Leng

Dungeness said:


> In a religious society, common folks would easily fall prey if people with ulterior motives pay religion card to them. "Deeper than ocean, higher than mountain" would not stand a chance.


The common Pakistani who is more religiously devout than the Pakistani elites probably would like to keep some distance from the Chinese simply due to religious reasons. In my view, however, the minority of Pakistani elites who are totally bought out by American money and influence are actually the most dangerous. They would play the religion card to inflame the masses. The only way is to work with the moderate Pakistani elites to educate the masses and curb extremism.

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## ShaikhKamal

The Chinese are persecuting Uighurs in the Uighurstan province. The land belongs to the people that live in it and their cultural traditions be respected. If the Communist do not want to respect the Uighur cultural traditions they they must also suppress the cultural traditions of all ethnic groups especially Chinese. Why are the Chinese cultural traditions are officially accepted such as Chinese lunar year they all must be banned too. Either you accept the cultural tradition of all the groups are none of the groups. Why don't the communist first start by banning all cultural Chinese traditions. Why target only the Uighur Muslims ?

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## pzkilo

ShaikhKamal said:


> The Chinese are persecuting Uighurs in the Uighurstan province. The land belongs to the people that live in it and their cultural traditions be respected. If the Communist do not want to respect the Uighur cultural traditions they they must also suppress the cultural traditions of all ethnic groups especially Chinese. Why are the Chinese cultural traditions are officially accepted such as Chinese lunar year they all must be banned too. Either you accept the cultural tradition of all the groups are none of the groups. Why don't the communist first start by banning all cultural Chinese traditions. Why target only the Uighur Muslims ?


Good question!Why target only the Uighur Muslims? Is it logical?Plz have a brain~

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## beijingwalker

ShaikhKamal said:


> The Chinese are persecuting Uighurs in the Uighurstan province. The land belongs to the people that live in it and their cultural traditions be respected. If the Communist do not want to respect the Uighur cultural traditions they they must also suppress the cultural traditions of all ethnic groups especially Chinese. Why are the Chinese cultural traditions are officially accepted such as Chinese lunar year they all must be banned too. Either you accept the cultural tradition of all the groups are none of the groups. Why don't the communist first start by banning all cultural Chinese traditions. Why target only the Uighur Muslims ?


What cultural traditions China is persecuting? Uighurs are neither the only nor the biggest Muslim group in China.

All religions are respected in China as long as they are not used against the Chinese government or to undermine China's territorial integrity, not like some countries, blasphemy can be a crime that is punishable by death.

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## Dungeness

ShaikhKamal said:


> The Chinese are persecuting Uighurs in the Uighurstan province. The land belongs to the people that live in it and their cultural traditions be respected. If the Communist do not want to respect the Uighur cultural traditions they they must also suppress the cultural traditions of all ethnic groups especially Chinese. Why are the Chinese cultural traditions are officially accepted such as Chinese lunar year they all must be banned too. Either you accept the cultural tradition of all the groups are none of the groups. Why don't the communist first start by banning all cultural Chinese traditions. *Why target only the Uighur Muslims *?



Maybe because Uighur produced more extremists and separatists than any other minority?

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## Feng Leng

ShaikhKamal said:


> The Chinese are persecuting Uighurs in the Uighurstan province. The land belongs to the people that live in it and their cultural traditions be respected. If the Communist do not want to respect the Uighur cultural traditions they they must also suppress the cultural traditions of all ethnic groups especially Chinese. Why are the Chinese cultural traditions are officially accepted such as Chinese lunar year they all must be banned too. Either you accept the cultural tradition of all the groups are none of the groups. Why don't the communist first start by banning all cultural Chinese traditions. Why target only the Uighur Muslims ?


If your cultural tradition tells you to seek political independence from people who eat pork, China will wipe out your cultural traditions. That's what happened to the Uighurs.

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## beijingwalker

Only a tiny small number of Uighurs are separatists, the vast majority of them are law abiding citizens enjoying a wealthy and prosperous life provided by the government.

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## Englishman

beijingwalker said:


> Only a tiny small number of Uighurs are separatists, the vast majority of them are law abiding citizens enjoying a wealthy and prosperous life provided by the government.



Can they follow Islam freely?

I.e go to mosque etc
Fast during Ramadan?


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## Dungeness

Englishman said:


> Can they follow Islam freely?
> 
> I.e go to mosque etc
> Fast during Ramadan?




Sure. Except for those who want to get CCP membership or want to work for the state.

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## beijingwalker

Englishman said:


> Can they follow Islam freely?
> 
> I.e go to mosque etc
> Fast during Ramadan?


I don't follow any religions but I have Hui friends they have no problems of any kinds at all follwing their ethnic traditions and religion.



Englishman said:


> Can they follow Islam freely?
> 
> I.e go to mosque etc
> Fast during Ramadan?



Many Chinese cities like Shanghai block busy city streets for Muslims to pray during Eid, what's mreo do you expect the Chinese government do?

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## forcetrip

Dungeness said:


> That's very evil. You don't want the same to your fallen soldiers.



His fallen soldiers are the same ones we are killing here. So basically we don't take their last breaths gurgling anything seriously.

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## beijingwalker

As we can see from the video that most fallen officers were Uighurs, there are much more Uighurs ready to give their lives for the people's republic of China than a tiny small number of separatists for their so called eastern turkestan fatasy.

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## Numerous

forcetrip said:


> His fallen soldiers are the same ones we are killing here. So basically we don't take their last breaths gurgling anything seriously.



I support the pakistani army generally and I have family members who serve in it. So I hope you're not taking the mick out of pakistani soldiers dying cos that'd be a pretty bad look for you.

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## Beast

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> @Two @beijingwalker


Poor Indian, hiding behind USA flag to boast your fragile Indian ego. Are you too ashamed to admit as Indian since they are so incompetent to lose to Pakistan on 27th Feb LOC even Pakistan is much smaller in economy and size?

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## beijingwalker

Majority of the fallen heros were Uighur police, they gave up their lives for today's Xinjiang's peace and prosperity.


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## Mamadouso

All this argument over Uighurs and quietly US Evangelical movement is spreading anti-China house churches like wildfire throughout the country and waiting to activate the Christian Evangelical converts when they need them.

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## Aryeih Leib

What's actually happening is a mass murderer of muslims (America) Is showing concerns over Uighurs Muslim 



Mamadouso said:


> All this argument over Uighurs and quietly US Evangelical movement is spreading anti-China house churches like wildfire throughout the country and waiting to activate the Christian Evangelical converts when they need them.

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## beijingwalker

In 2018, Xinjiang received record high 150 million tourists, a 40% increase year on year, Xinjiang is fast becoming one of the hottest tourist destination in China, a whopping 30% of Xinjiang's GDP is from tourism and Xinjiang's double digits overall GDP growth is the highest in China.

Thanks to the successful government policies in Xinjiang, with the world first class infrastructures, safety and stability. Xinjiang is fast developing into a modern, affluent region in central Asia.

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## beijingwalker

This year Xinjiang is likely to receive around 200-300 million tourists, over 10 times of the local population...This whole region can just live on its tourism alone.

Road trips are preferred way of traveling by tourists in Xinjiang due to its vast area

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## Mamadouso

I don’t think China leadership understand that the beauty in Xinjiang is its unique culture and the Uighur mosques and history is a great attraction. I would love to visit there to see the historic mosques and forts. There is no need to force the Uighur to leave their traditions

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## beijingwalker

Mamadouso said:


> I don’t think China leadership understand that the beauty in Xinjiang is its unique culture and the Uighur mosques and history is a great attraction. I would love to visit there to see the historic mosques and forts. There is no need to force the Uighur to leave their traditions


No one forced them to leave their culture and tradition, what you said is exactly what attract hundreds of millions in the region, by the way, Xinjiang has more mosques than even Tureky per person just in case you don't know.

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## Goenitz

it is sad that Pakistan economy is weak... Else Pak and China govt should arrange a mutual affordable trips to these locations so that the myths about concentration camps can be busted and also people can understand each other culture

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## beijingwalker

Goenitz said:


> it is sad that Pakistan economy is weak... Else Pak and China govt should arrange a mutual affordable trips to these locations so that the myths about concentration camps can be busted and also people can understand each other culture


Pakistan has beautiful lands, but to be frank, security is the biggest issue that holds your tourism back. Your poorest region is also one of the world most pristinely beautiful places but bad press and security concerns scare most potential tourists away.

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## beijingwalker

Why road trips are so popular in Xinjiang, it's so much fun, you just drive your own car or rent a large SUV for a week after you arrive in Xinjiang by air, it's super convenient and road conditions are superb, You can follow the highways or you can choose places off the beat roads at your free will, You can go solo or with a group of other cars.

See how this Taiwan group enjoy their road trip in southern Xinjiang.

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## oprih

Xinjiang is indeed a very beautiful Chinese province.

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## Three_Kingdoms

These help silence some ignorant people who bash China based on wilful propaganda aimed to malign China.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang's GDP is already highest in the whole central Asia and is still growing at double digits speed, it's highways, airports, bridges and subways are second to none on this planet, putting all western countries in shame, that's something that west can't bear to see. 
A truly repressive society can never grow like Xinjiang, the vicious attack they launch against Xinjiang only shows how desparate and jealous they are.

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## zectech

beijingwalker said:


> Pakistan has beautiful lands, but to be frank, security is the biggest issue that holds your tourism back. Your poorest region is also one of the world most pristinely beautiful places but bad press and security concerns scare most potential tourists away.



In Amerika it is the opposite, you get kidnapped by 'cops' for being an arab or Hauwei supporter.

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-an...e-say-isis-report-was-just-a-miscommunication

without the 'cops', it would be a street jungle, with shooting all the time. So Amerikans are 'damned' if they do 'damned' tf they don't.

Don't ever visit Amerika, ever enter there by plane? It is a nazis regime. Everyone who looks Southern Italian is a potential 'terrorist' because they don't look like a child-molesting Irish fat priest. So the look of normal white Caucasian people is deemed the look of ISIS, and they profile you for being apart of the non-violent civilized friendly good people of the world. Amerikans are worse than the Indians. Socrates, Plato and Aristotle would be taken from the security lines and roughed up for looking middle eastern. Assumed they would be of being terrorists, by the worst terror state - Amerika.

'Socrates was shot and killed today by FSA security officials for asking the guards too many questions that they go so annoyed, they FSA shot and kill Socrates. More news at 11.'

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## beijingwalker

Taiwan road trip group traveling in northern Xinjiang

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## beijingwalker

*Beautiful Urumqi light show celebrating the Chinese National Day
*

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## beijingwalker

Social stabilty brings booming tourism to Kashgar, Xinjiang, wood carving artisans make up to 80000 RMB,(12000 dollars) per month.

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## beijingwalker

Pretty decent money for a small shop owner, Xinjiang's cost of living in low.

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## fisher1

Why wouldn't it be? You lock up the whole Muslims population in concentration camps, the whole city presents an image of some war torn abandoned city. How would it be an expensive place.

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## fisher1

handful of elderly men inside one of China's largest mosques, the first bow comes not when prayers begin but as they duck through metal detectors. Lined with facial recognition security cameras both inside and out, Id Kah mosque in Kashgar is under the constant watch of patrolling police officers armed with batons and riot shields. Ramadan is a quiet, fearful affair in this oasis town on ancient trade routes. Despite mounting international pressure and condemnation, the massive crackdown on the Uighur people and their shrinking culture here shows no signs of abating for the Muslim holy month. Widespread intimidation - from inside mosques to family homes - mean residents don't dare utter the traditional Islamic greeting, “as-salaam alaikum”, while fasting is also banned, with restaurants forced to stay open. At schools and local authority offices, “the Chinese government provides water, food – lunch – to force you to drink and eat,” said Dolkun Isa, president of the World Uyghur Congress, an advocacy group. Local officials are increasing checks to people’s homes, too, to make sure they aren’t secretly observing the practice, according to a government notice posted online. They’ll even “bring gifts to Uighur families – pork,” Mr Isa told The Telegraph. Although Muslims don’t eat the meat, “you cannot refuse it; you have to accept it, and they are monitoring them and eating together.” Kashgar lies in the heart of Xinjiang, a far-western region in China home to the Uighurs, an ethnic minority of mostly Sunni Muslims. US officials believe up to three million of them have been locked up in internment camps in what amounts to a virtual whitewash of religion and culture. The city of Kashgar has changed dramatically under the Chinese crackdown The city of Kashgar has changed dramatically under the Chinese crackdown CREDIT: GUILLAUME PAYEN/GETTY IMAGES Former detainees interviewed by The Telegraph have recounted horrific torture, being forced to memorise Chinese Communist Party propaganda, and to renounce Islam. This year's Ramadan is a far cry from ones in the past – tens of thousands used to flock to Id Kah, spilling out into the public square to pray before boisterous celebrations erupted to break the day’s fast. The old city's saffron-coloured alleys and archways were once so reminiscent of old Kabul that the film, The Kite Runner, was shot here – before the government bulldozed most of it in 2010. In the corner that remains, Chinese tourists snap photos of Uighur children in the narrow lanes by homes with red signs that deem them “virtuous” households – a government programme that recognises ‘good’ behaviour. That’s the Kashgar that Beijing wants the world to see, not the internment camps just a few miles away. Even with growing evidence of terrifying abuses inside, China insists the camps are “vocational skills training” centres that reform would-be terrorists. The Telegraph's efforts to track down and visit these illicit camps were largely scuppered by a near-constant surveillance and obstruction by groups of men watching reporters' every move. During four days in the city, the reporters were effectively kidnapped twice after nameless voices over the radio instructed taxi drivers to turn around rather than continue to the requested destination. As a result, the Telegraph navigated nearly 50 miles on foot, eventually reaching a vast internment camp with at least nine yellow and gray buildings and four watchtowers. There, a dozen minders quickly faked an electricity line repair and surrounded reporters for over an hour to block them from advancing further down the road. “It’s for your safety,” they said. Four separate patrols also forced photographer Giulia Marchi to delete images. The Telegraph was followed so tightly that it was impossible to conduct interviews in the open. But in snatches of private conversations, Uighurs raised deep concerns without being prompted. Near one internment camp, our Uighur driver shut off the radio and snuffed out his cigarette, his lively demeanour suddenly subdued. That compound was “much trouble,” he said, making the motion of being handcuffed. Police tracked his vehicle and he never got too close out of fear he’d end up inside. Another confided he’d been detained for a few days and that his wife remained imprisoned, now for 18 months, leaving him alone to raise their two young children. “I am worried,” he said. “I don’t know for how much longer [she will be held].” At highway checkpoints, Uighurs are stopped for full body and face scans and vehicle searches. To pass, they must swipe their ID cards at turnstiles, prompting personal details to pop up on screens for officers to monitor, creating a digital trail of their movements. The US says that up to three million Uighurs could detained in Chinese 're-education' camps The US says that up to three million Uighurs could detained in Chinese 're-education' camps CREDIT: VYACHESLAV OSELEDKO/AFP Beijing has long sought to arrest control of this resource-rich region where decades of government-encouraged migration of the Han – China’s ethnic majority – have fuelled resentment among Uighurs. The biggest outburst erupted in 2009 in Urumqi, the capital of Xinjiang, resulting in 200 deaths. Now, the ruling Communist Party has launched a propaganda campaign about snuffing out "criminal" and "terrorist" activity. All across Xinjiang – meaning "new frontier" – are bright red banners reminding people to fight illegal, "cult" behaviour, listing hotlines to report suspicious activity. “Love the Party, love the country,” hangs a streamer at one mosque, just above the metal detector. A highway billboard proclaims, “Secretary Xi is linked heart-to-heart with Xinjiang minorities,” referring to Chinese president Xi Jinping. The government is working to present an image of a happy, peaceful Xinjiang, in efforts to boost tourism and attract investment; this is the linchpin for Mr Xi's Belt and Road initiative. While the local economy has yet to soar as officials hope – special economic zones and new housing complexes sit empty – the messaging is starting to work. A retired Han couple said they finally felt safe enough to visit Xinjiang given the strong police presence. “We’ve been here for a week and we haven’t seen any scuffles,” Zuo Xiaofang, from Shanghai, told the Telegraph. “We heard it used to be a mess here.” “Han and Uighur are a united family!” said a Han Chinese barista in the old city, now turned a garish cultural theme park, where many mosques have shuttered, with Islamic features like onion domes or the crescent moon removed. It’s all part of a vow Mr Xi made in 2015 to “Sinicise” religion, and Uighur advocates worry about tradition, language and culture – cultivated from centuries as a trading stop on the old Silk Road – being erased. “‘Sinification’ of Islam means adjusting religion to be comfortable for the Chinese Communist Party,” said Mr Isa. “If Uighurs are thinking, living Chinese, then Uighur culture [will be] all destroyed.” 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...uslims-forced-eat-drink-ramadan-celebrations/

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## Numerous

May Allah grant sabr and ease to the uighurs and free them from being oppressed.

It's ramadan now, make sure to make dua against all our oppressors - from india, to myanmar buddhists to these chinese communists etc...

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## UKBengali

CCP scum!

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## Mamadouso

Really sad, why such a problem with Ramadan?

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## Quibbler

Waiting for Chinese to come up and say their favorite words ( because they will disappear if they dont). And also Paksitani's trying to reason with "their country their rules".

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## Feng Leng

Wait... I thought we were harvesting their organs. Can dead people drink alcohol or eat?

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## American Pakistani

We Pakistanis are so prone into believing propaganda. We will be the first ones to cry foul if these news agencies say something about a Muslim man involved in crime or terrorism but love to believe these kind of propagandas.

I still remember how these news agencies were accusing Pakistani military of opening fire on Pishteen Terrorist movement calling it an attack on _rights group_. Should we also believe in that?

Why do we forget British and EU providing safe heaven to Pakistan's most wanted terrorists like Altaf Hussain, Marri, Bugti, etc?

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## Max

Commie terrorists.

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## Offshore

Numerous said:


> May Allah grant sabr and ease to the uighurs and free them from being oppressed.
> 
> It's ramadan now, make sure to make dua against all *our oppressors* - from india, to myanmar buddhists to these chinese communists etc...


you can start asking your goverment stop taking loan from Chinese communist, and pray for allah to drop ton of gold from heaven

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## Numerous

Offshore said:


> you can start asking your goverment stop taking loan from Chinese communist, and pray for allah to drop ton of gold from heaven



It wasn't so long ago that your own country was dying in poverty and had a stagnated economy. 

Yes all wealth comes from Allah. We had it in the past, we don't have it today but maybe we'll have it again in future insha'Allah.

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## Neptune_

What else can we expect from China.

Btw, I myself is a non religious person.

But Chinese r on a whole different level. Shame on them.

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## Kaniska

Numerous said:


> May Allah grant sabr and ease to the uighurs and free them from being oppressed.
> 
> It's ramadan now, make sure to make dua against all our oppressors - from india, to myanmar buddhists to these chinese communists etc...



See ...even you do not have courage to criticize where it is due...Whenever, you have to criticize China, you have to bring India otherwise, your own countrymen will catergorize you as non patriotic...


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## Numerous

Kaniska said:


> See ...even you do not have courage to criticize where it is due...Whenever, you have to criticize China, you have to bring India otherwise, your own countrymen will catergorize you as non patriotic...



I've done plenty of chinese criticism on this forum man.

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## Götterdämmerung

US propagnda running on desperation mode.

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## masterchief_mirza

Sorry. I won't believe anything coming from the telegraph. They are the paper of choice for self validating upper "muddle" class Israel and Hindutva apologists and their dinner table islamophobic normalisations. The bhakt brigade in UK loves this trash. This paper is the main cheerleader for endless wars in the middle east and the perpetual neoconservative agenda. Such articles sell papers because of the echo chamber these emotional centre right types live in, who require a fabricated propaganda piece to tut tut self-righteously against Muslims, Chinese, Iran and Russia. They will hold up Kurds and uighurs and balochis as their poster boys as they go about rationalizing their neo-orientalist designs but would they ever say a good word about TRUE Muslim victims of terrorism e.g. Palestinian people? In a word - no. So go figure.

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## KAL-EL

mqur1963 said:


> china is no good they eat dogs cats rats they r like enimal



Do they really eat dogs and cats? Or is it just an Exaggerated claim?


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## eldamar

mqur1963 said:


> china is no good they eat dogs cats rats they r like enimal


Overwhelming vast majority of the Chinese do not eat dog or cats or rats.



Numerous said:


> May Allah grant sabr and ease to the uighurs and free them from being oppressed.
> 
> It's ramadan now, make sure to make dua against all our oppressors - from india, to myanmar buddhists to these chinese communists etc...


Wait-

What has communism got to do with ramadan?

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## Numerous

eldarlmari said:


> Wait-
> 
> What has communism got to do with ramadan?



Increased likelihood of prayers being accepted at times in this holy month, so we should take the opportunity to pray against such people for their oppression.

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## eldamar

Numerous said:


> Increased likelihood of prayers being accepted at times in this holy month, so we should take the opportunity to pray against such people for their oppression.


No my question was:

What has communism got to do with ramadan

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## Numerous

eldarlmari said:


> No my question was:
> 
> What has communism got to do with ramadan



I mentioned communists because the people oppressing the uighurs are the chinese communist party.

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## eldamar

Numerous said:


> I mentioned communists because the people oppressing the uighurs are the chinese communist party.


But in the context here, how come u aren't saying' damn these atheists banning Ramadan'?

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## Foxtrot Delta

Mamadouso said:


> Really sad, why such a problem with Ramadan?


FAKE PROPAGANDA. GO VISIT CHINA. they have best muslims in the world.

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## Rasengan

Offshore said:


> he called Chinese oppressor them, if that's the way they see the world.. then all terrorist should associated with pakistan.
> no joke, they got bomb every fucking weekend



Brother just because someone is a fool doesn't mean you should stoop to their level. Furthermore, we don't get bombed every week. if the security situation deteriorates in Pakistan that will spill over into China so I would be careful in badmouthing about Pakistan. I like China and the Chinese people but that doesn't mean I would accept abuse thrown against Pakistan. I have defended China on this forum along with a bunch of other Pakistani's so you aren't doing yourself a favour by attacking Pakistan. Attack the poster who speaks ill against China but not the country. China has done nothing wrong I don't know why dumb Pakistani's accept a foreign newspaper whose sole job is to stop the rise of China which includes CPEC.

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## maximuswarrior

Western propaganda.

These Westerners have been bombing, raping and killing Muslims for fun. They want Muslim nations to be outraged at rising China. Ain't gonna happen.

The West has failed miserably in containing China. Their little puppy India is worthless. Now the West is begging the Islamic nations to break their relations with China. The begging won't help because China and the Islamic nations are on excellent terms.

China never occupied, bombed or raped any Muslim nation. We know who have. If China is instilling patriotism in Chinese people including the Chinese Muslims it is their country and their rules.

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## waz

DeadSparrow said:


> handful of elderly men inside one of China's largest mosques, the first bow comes not when prayers begin but as they duck through metal detectors. Lined with facial recognition security cameras both inside and out, Id Kah mosque in Kashgar is under the constant watch of patrolling police officers armed with batons and riot shields. Ramadan is a quiet, fearful affair in this oasis town on ancient trade routes. Despite mounting international pressure and condemnation, the massive crackdown on the Uighur people and their shrinking culture here shows no signs of abating for the Muslim holy month. Widespread intimidation - from inside mosques to family homes - mean residents don't dare utter the traditional Islamic greeting, “as-salaam alaikum”, while fasting is also banned, with restaurants forced to stay open. At schools and local authority offices, “the Chinese government provides water, food – lunch – to force you to drink and eat,” said Dolkun Isa, president of the World Uyghur Congress, an advocacy group. Local officials are increasing checks to people’s homes, too, to make sure they aren’t secretly observing the practice, according to a government notice posted online. They’ll even “bring gifts to Uighur families – pork,” Mr Isa told The Telegraph. Although Muslims don’t eat the meat, “you cannot refuse it; you have to accept it, and they are monitoring them and eating together.” Kashgar lies in the heart of Xinjiang, a far-western region in China home to the Uighurs, an ethnic minority of mostly Sunni Muslims. US officials believe up to three million of them have been locked up in internment camps in what amounts to a virtual whitewash of religion and culture. The city of Kashgar has changed dramatically under the Chinese crackdown The city of Kashgar has changed dramatically under the Chinese crackdown CREDIT: GUILLAUME PAYEN/GETTY IMAGES Former detainees interviewed by The Telegraph have recounted horrific torture, being forced to memorise Chinese Communist Party propaganda, and to renounce Islam. This year's Ramadan is a far cry from ones in the past – tens of thousands used to flock to Id Kah, spilling out into the public square to pray before boisterous celebrations erupted to break the day’s fast. The old city's saffron-coloured alleys and archways were once so reminiscent of old Kabul that the film, The Kite Runner, was shot here – before the government bulldozed most of it in 2010. In the corner that remains, Chinese tourists snap photos of Uighur children in the narrow lanes by homes with red signs that deem them “virtuous” households – a government programme that recognises ‘good’ behaviour. That’s the Kashgar that Beijing wants the world to see, not the internment camps just a few miles away. Even with growing evidence of terrifying abuses inside, China insists the camps are “vocational skills training” centres that reform would-be terrorists. The Telegraph's efforts to track down and visit these illicit camps were largely scuppered by a near-constant surveillance and obstruction by groups of men watching reporters' every move. During four days in the city, the reporters were effectively kidnapped twice after nameless voices over the radio instructed taxi drivers to turn around rather than continue to the requested destination. As a result, the Telegraph navigated nearly 50 miles on foot, eventually reaching a vast internment camp with at least nine yellow and gray buildings and four watchtowers. There, a dozen minders quickly faked an electricity line repair and surrounded reporters for over an hour to block them from advancing further down the road. “It’s for your safety,” they said. Four separate patrols also forced photographer Giulia Marchi to delete images. The Telegraph was followed so tightly that it was impossible to conduct interviews in the open. But in snatches of private conversations, Uighurs raised deep concerns without being prompted. Near one internment camp, our Uighur driver shut off the radio and snuffed out his cigarette, his lively demeanour suddenly subdued. That compound was “much trouble,” he said, making the motion of being handcuffed. Police tracked his vehicle and he never got too close out of fear he’d end up inside. Another confided he’d been detained for a few days and that his wife remained imprisoned, now for 18 months, leaving him alone to raise their two young children. “I am worried,” he said. “I don’t know for how much longer [she will be held].” At highway checkpoints, Uighurs are stopped for full body and face scans and vehicle searches. To pass, they must swipe their ID cards at turnstiles, prompting personal details to pop up on screens for officers to monitor, creating a digital trail of their movements. The US says that up to three million Uighurs could detained in Chinese 're-education' camps The US says that up to three million Uighurs could detained in Chinese 're-education' camps CREDIT: VYACHESLAV OSELEDKO/AFP Beijing has long sought to arrest control of this resource-rich region where decades of government-encouraged migration of the Han – China’s ethnic majority – have fuelled resentment among Uighurs. The biggest outburst erupted in 2009 in Urumqi, the capital of Xinjiang, resulting in 200 deaths. Now, the ruling Communist Party has launched a propaganda campaign about snuffing out "criminal" and "terrorist" activity. All across Xinjiang – meaning "new frontier" – are bright red banners reminding people to fight illegal, "cult" behaviour, listing hotlines to report suspicious activity. “Love the Party, love the country,” hangs a streamer at one mosque, just above the metal detector. A highway billboard proclaims, “Secretary Xi is linked heart-to-heart with Xinjiang minorities,” referring to Chinese president Xi Jinping. The government is working to present an image of a happy, peaceful Xinjiang, in efforts to boost tourism and attract investment; this is the linchpin for Mr Xi's Belt and Road initiative. While the local economy has yet to soar as officials hope – special economic zones and new housing complexes sit empty – the messaging is starting to work. A retired Han couple said they finally felt safe enough to visit Xinjiang given the strong police presence. “We’ve been here for a week and we haven’t seen any scuffles,” Zuo Xiaofang, from Shanghai, told the Telegraph. “We heard it used to be a mess here.” “Han and Uighur are a united family!” said a Han Chinese barista in the old city, now turned a garish cultural theme park, where many mosques have shuttered, with Islamic features like onion domes or the crescent moon removed. It’s all part of a vow Mr Xi made in 2015 to “Sinicise” religion, and Uighur advocates worry about tradition, language and culture – cultivated from centuries as a trading stop on the old Silk Road – being erased. “‘Sinification’ of Islam means adjusting religion to be comfortable for the Chinese Communist Party,” said Mr Isa. “If Uighurs are thinking, living Chinese, then Uighur culture [will be] all destroyed.”
> 
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...uslims-forced-eat-drink-ramadan-celebrations/



The "forced' eating part has been debunked many times and is simply not true. However yes party officials are told not to fast.
At the end of the day no one really knows and as a friend Pakistan it's best to let things be that's after all China's official policy of non- interference in the affairs of other nations. If there are concerns ask to be shown around.

What do some people want? To burn this relationship, and get a back on the back from others who have always been hostile to Pakistan?

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## UKBengali

maximuswarrior said:


> Western propaganda.
> 
> These Westerners have been bombing, raping and killing Muslims for fun. They want Muslim nations to be outraged at rising China. Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> The West has failed miserably in containing China. Their little puppy India is worthless. Now the West is begging the Islamic nations to break their relations with China. The begging won't help because China and the Islamic nations are on excellent terms.
> 
> China never occupied, bombed or raped any Muslim nation. We know who have. If China is instilling patriotism in Chinese people including the Chinese Muslims it is their country and their rules.



Who is the chief backer of Myanmar dude?

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## American Pakistani

waz said:


> The "forced' eating part has been debunked many times and is simply not true. However yes party officials are told not to fast.
> At the end of the day no one really knows and as a friend Pakistan it's best to let things be that's after all China's official policy of non- interference in the affairs of other nations. If there are concerns ask to be shown around.
> 
> What do some people want? To burn this relationship, and get a back on the back from others who have always been hostile to Pakistan?



Unfortunately many Pakistani people don't seem to have any sense.

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## HannibalBarca

waz said:


> The "forced' eating part has been debunked many times and is simply not true. However yes party officials are told not to fast.
> At the end of the day no one really knows and as a friend Pakistan it's best to let things be that's after all China's official policy of non- interference in the affairs of other nations. If there are concerns ask to be shown around.
> 
> What do some people want? To burn this relationship, and get a back on the back from others who have always been hostile to Pakistan?



There is an ongoing polemic in MENA after the biggest Arab vlogger traveled there...
Mosque are closed and turned into visitor centers...
People he knew with beard in his lastest trip around 2011 and 2017... are shaved...
The Adhan is forbidden now...
In Ramadan, alchool is on the street where it wasn't the case few years ago.

and so on...

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## waz

American Pakistani said:


> Unfortunately many Pakistani people don't seem to have any sense.



Bro some have genuine concerns, most don't know or won't bother due to the close ties with China. 

I'd like to add as well we do have sinister infiltrators whose sole job is to wreak Pakistan and the relations we have with other countries. This is a mix of false flags, paid off people and so on. I've seen it all in my long, long time on here.

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## American Pakistani

waz said:


> Bro some have genuine concerns, most don't know or won't bother due to the close ties with China.
> 
> I'd like to add as well we do have sinister infiltrators whose sole job is to wreak Pakistan and the relations we have with other countries. This is a mix of false flags, paid off people and so on. I've seen it all in my long, long time on here.



Agreed 100%. But I would also add that we blindly follow the same people and their papers who post similar garbage against us too. For example recently when PTM terrorists clashed with Pakistani Army, many of these same western neews sites published it as Pakistani Army killed right group workers.

Mein urdu mein kahunga k hamaray log apna nuksaan hi nahi samajhtay. Sirf aik sarhad hi to hai jo kuch mahfuz hai, ye log dusro k propaganda mein aakar us sarhad ko bhi gher mehfooz karna chahtty hain. Both India and West want to cut the relationship Muslim world and China have, this will mean a double victory for them because they can shut oil supply to China containing it's growth and they will options for Muslim world in UN, defense purchases, etc etc.

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## waz

HannibalBarca said:


> There is an ongoing polemic in MENA after the biggest Arab vlogger traveled there...
> Mosque are closed and turned into visitor centers...
> People he knew with beard in his lastest trip around 2011 and 2017... are shaved...
> The Adhan is forbidden now...
> In Ramadan, alchool is on the street where it wasn't the case few years ago.
> 
> and so on...



Saw it, I've been to many Muslim countries with mosques shuttered. There could have been a myriad of reasons for this.
As for the beard, I know people who keep a beard for a few years then shave, I saw recent videos of elders with beards, however the young don't seem to have them. That might be something.
The Adhan is forbidden I can't comment on, I hope not.
I'm sorry to say that I have encountered many Central Asians who drink, it's actually quite common and doesn't have the same stigma that is attached with Arab and South Asian cultures. There simply might be a greater prevalence of folk who drink or it might be for the Han Chinese, who are also in the region.



American Pakistani said:


> Agreed 100%. But I would also add that we blindly follow the same people and their papers who post similar garbage against us too. For example recently when PTM terrorists clashed with Pakistani Army, many of these same western neews sites published it as Pakistani Army killed right group workers.



Don't forget the whole 'Baluchistan' genocide going on. Should we allow endless threads about that and videos from the Western press and every other press?

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## American Pakistani

waz said:


> Don't forget the whole 'Baluchistan' genocide going on. Should we allow endless threads about that and videos from the Western press and every other press?



So true, they are painting Balochistan as if there is a massive genocide going on by Pakistani military, while in fact it is indian sponsored terrorists who are busy attacking Pakistani military or civilians.

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## HannibalBarca

waz said:


> Saw it, I've been to many Muslim countries with mosques shuttered. There could have been a myriad of reasons for this.
> As for the beard, I know people who keep a beard for a few years then shave, I saw recent videos of elders with beards, however the young don't seem to have them. That might be something.
> The Adhan is forbidden I can't comment on, I hope not.
> I'm sorry to say that I have encountered many Central Asians who drink, it's actually quite common and doesn't have the same stigma that is attached with Arab and South Asian cultures. There simply might be a greater prevalence of folk who drink or it might be for the Han Chinese, who are also in the region.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget the whole 'Baluchistan' genocide going on. Should we allow endless threads about that and videos from the Western press and every other press?



It's not about if a Muslims drinks or not...
But the Cultural cleansing that is operating...
We both know... what China did in the past for other minorities after annexation of their land... and How they put ahead a certain program to assimilate the population... it's a secret to no one... Even CN themselves don't hide from it... since a step to ''Unite China''... since it's Creation...

What was only Few years ago part of the Culture is today being changed... Since you saw the vids ( 3 parts actually) you can't deny what is happening.

Now, many do acknowledge such practice... But they say it themselves... They don't care, They need that relationship with CN for the numerous reasons...Then it's their choice, no one can impose on them what they beleive to be best for themselves.

And let's be honest with Each others... We know what CN will do if some Chinese around the gloibe get mistreated... They make it known... and will use whatever in her power to find a solution...
Why, Muslims can't? are we weak? We got Money... Manpower... Nukes... Oil etc... What is left? Unity?Balls?

And it's not just the Uighurs... it's everywhere... In any situation... Muslims will find excuses to run from their responsibilities... We are seeing it when it comes to Palestine, Kashmir, Syria, Rohyngas etc...
It's like they traded their few years on this earth for their Honor.
Many will say... but it's our gov... They are sellouts or incompetent and so on... but in the End... the reality is... that gov didn't put himself there... and unfortunately it's the same thing everywhere in the Muslim world...

There was a Time when the world Trembled to the evocation of Muslims... Even though they were weaker than their opponent... Today... it's a state of slavery that many seems to enjoy as if it was freedom...

The other logic that many use also... is... When we get stronger... economically and military we will speak.... But it's the same as that guy who say that he doesn't have much to help his brother with few dollars but when he will get rich he will... Who on earth believe such guy to be genuine or truthful?

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## Numerous

eldarlmari said:


> But in the context here, how come u aren't saying' damn these atheists banning Ramadan'?



Not all atheists are involved in this. The uighur oppression is specific to the chinese communist party.

Why do you have a problem with me saying chinese communists?

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## eldamar

Numerous said:


> Not all atheists are involved in this. The uighur oppression is specific to the chinese communist party.
> 
> Why do you have a problem with me saying chinese communists?


Becos i cant see the link between communism n ràmadan.

There àre muslims who r also communists
Athéism has no exclusive correalation with communism

A religious person can be communist at the same time

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## fisher1

waz said:


> The "forced' eating part has been debunked many times and is simply not true. However yes party officials are told not to fast.
> At the end of the day no one really knows and as a friend Pakistan it's best to let things be that's after all China's official policy of non- interference in the affairs of other nations. If there are concerns ask to be shown around.
> 
> What do some people want? To burn this relationship, and get a back on the back from others who have always been hostile to Pakistan?



Watch this then make that statement. It's from an independent travel vlogger who doesn't really give a crap about the Uighurs. In fact, his other vlogs show the beauty of China and in a positive light except when he visits Urumqi and Kashgar and the famous Id Kha mosque.





I don't understand why would telling China to stop violating human rights mean the end of relationship. Pakistani leaders especially Imran Khan came to power cursing and badmouthing America and using all kinds of obscenities against Trump and American nation (i remember vividly how he called Americans dumb for electing Trump and the crowd cheered) yet Pakistan is receiving help for economic bailout and there's no doubt about US-Pak relationship which despite its sour moments is always on track when needed.

Or Pakistan and Indias relationship, we've been at war, it has been terrible yet both countries trade and at times the relationship becomes good when there's not a madman like Modi in power.

This is nonsense and justification of soulless people. Turkey has publicly condemned China for their holocaust on Muslims yet Turkey is taking loans from China.

I don't know if you're a Muslim since this forum is overrun with Indians and communists so can't really tell but to a Muslim, there are three ranks of emaan. The highest is physically stopping oppression, then lower is condemning it with your mouth and the last is thinking it is wrong in your heart.

But of course, Pakistan is a coward country who can't dare attack India despite their repeated attempts so attacking China and liberating Uighur Muslims from these fascist Hitler grandsons communists is impossible to even dream about but don't be scared shitless.

Pakistan can easily condemn China and give a statement and be done with it.

These communists need Pakistan more than we need these communists. If Pakistan had a spine and feared Allah more than they fear China then we could've forced China to do a lot more cause of Pakistans geography.

But what I've seen - and God bless the courageous souls - is many Pakistanis don't even have the last rank of emaan and actually defend the holocaust by parroting Chinese lies. These Uighurs are terrorists, that's why China is doing it. Not long ago, China denied it, when exposed, it became terrorist reeeducation camps, wah.

What i find the height of Munafiqat from Muslims themselves is when Israel bombs Palestinians and call them terrorists, oh it's wrong and crimes against humanity or when India do it to Kashmiris, oh no poor Kashmiris. But when the most oppressive regime known to mankind today who's famous for censorship and absolute control of information and spying and communists of all people do what they're good at, it's all just Western propaganda?.

I feel like if Pakistan was getting money from Israel and India the way it's getting from China then it would've been okay to bomb Kashmir and Palestine too. Can't sabotage our relationship can we? And it would become western propaganda.



eldarlmari said:


> Becos i cant see the link between communism n ràmadan.
> 
> There àre muslims who r also communists
> Athéism has no exclusive correalation with communism
> 
> A religious person can be communist at the same time



Lol joke of the century. Communism and Islam are opposite concepts. This is why China is cracking down hard on religion especially Muslims because Islam is the only religion which has made Jihad - fighting against oppression - mandatory on its followers and it sees it as a threat to the horrible genocides it has and wants to commit against people. This is why China is forcing them to renounce Islam.

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/3321/can-one-be-a-muslim-and-a-communist-at-the-same-time

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## xyxmt

I have one question just out of curiosity, where do you find all these articles about Chinese muslim's situation, are these articles pushed to readers based on your location, because nothing ever comes in my searches unless I specifically google it

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## Numerous

xyxmt said:


> I have one question just out of curiosity, where do you find all these articles about Chinese muslim's situation, are these articles pushed to readers based on your location, because nothing ever comes in my searches unless I specifically google it



I mainly see them through facebook because I follow a lot of news websites + islamic speakers/scholars.

This page is pretty good - https://www.facebook.com/doamuslims2/
Talks about a whole range of issues from kashmir to syria to uighurs in china etc...


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## maximuswarrior

UKBengali said:


> Who is the chief backer of Myanmar dude?



India?

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## fisher1

xyxmt said:


> I have one question just out of curiosity, where do you find all these articles about Chinese muslim's situation, are these articles pushed to readers based on your location, because nothing ever comes in my searches unless I specifically google it



Heh. I have to struggle to find these little pieces of information. There's not much China is allowing to leak out and when that Arab vlogger bravely leaks out what's happening there is a goldfind. 

He's moved on after making two videos, one in Urumqi and another in Kashgar to greener pastures. And for a long time, the Chinese would continue its propaganda until someone else dares to go there and manages to post videos or if the lucky victims who fled will give their stories which of course would be denied by the humanity lover Mao Dung followers.


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## maximuswarrior

waz said:


> Bro some have genuine concerns, most don't know or won't bother due to the close ties with China.
> 
> I'd like to add as well we do have sinister infiltrators whose sole job is to wreak Pakistan and the relations we have with other countries. This is a mix of false flags, paid off people and so on. I've seen it all in my long, long time on here.



I wouldn't be surprised that we have screwed up people on this forum from foreign funded entities who actually participate with the sole purpose to instigate misunderstandings. Yes, they get paid to be full or part-time trolls.



xyxmt said:


> I have one question just out of curiosity, where do you find all these articles about Chinese muslim's situation, are these articles pushed to readers based on your location, because nothing ever comes in my searches unless I specifically google it



More importantly, just have a good look at which specific sources and nations are actually spreading such anti-China news. It is not a coincidence at all. It is planned and well thought out.

We have to remember one thing. They played this same game back in the day with so-called godless Russian commies. Remember how the Americans and her allies pitched the idea of us believing in one God and the Russian commies being godless enemies? Connect the dots folks. They are playing the same game all over again. Only this time the godless enemy is supposed to be China.

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## fisher1

maximuswarrior said:


> I wouldn't be surprised that we have screwed up people on this forum from foreign funded entities who actually participate with the sole purpose to instigate misunderstandings. Yes, they get paid to be full or part-time trolls.
> 
> 
> 
> More importantly, just have a good look at which specific sources and nations are actually spreading such anti-China news. It is not a coincidence at all. It is planned and well thought out.
> 
> We have to remember one thing. They played this same game back in the day with so-called godless Russian commies. Remember how the Americans and her allies pitched the idea of us believing in one God and the Russian commies being godless enemies? Connect the dots folks. They are playing the same game all over again. Only this time the godless enemy is supposed to be China.



So Russians are good people and the Soviets didn't commit any wrongs?

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## beijingwalker

HannibalBarca said:


> It's not about if a Muslims drinks or not...
> But the Cultural cleansing that is operating...
> We both know... what China did in the past for other minorities after annexation of their land... and How they put ahead a certain program to assimilate the population... it's a secret to no one...


What is cultural cleansing? Many Uighurs can't speak Mandarin Chinese and all Uighurs have their own style names, while In other central Aisan regions you can see they all speak fluent Russia, using Russian for writing and have Russia style names, none of them is true in China, China helps minorities to keep everything original, the same difference can be found between Mongols in Inner Mongolia and Republic of Mongolia.
As for changes, China herself changes very fast, so is her culture and mentality, today's China can be very different from China 20 years ago, everything changes, don't say nothing even changed in Turkey.

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## maximuswarrior

DeadSparrow said:


> So Russians are good people and the Soviets didn't commit any wrongs?



Should we pose the same question for the American warmongers or would that be a sin?

Listen up, we are not going to become party in Western fetish to contain China. We are not stupid. We know who is making these noises and for what purpose.

China might be dealing too harshly with the Uyghur issue, but it is their internal matter. Pakistan can and should convey its advise as a friend. However, China is totally justified to take care of Western sponsored renegade groups. Western reporting on China cannot be taken as word of God. Western wish to contain Chinese rise is no secret to anyone. The West and particularly the Americans love to instigate chaos among ethnic and religious lines. They do it in Pakistan and they have done it elsewhere. This case is no different.

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## beijingwalker

HannibalBarca said:


> We know what CN will do if some Chinese around the gloibe get mistreated... They make it known... and will use whatever in her power to find a solution...
> Why, Muslims can't? are we weak? We got Money... Manpower... Nukes... Oil etc... What is left? Unity?Balls?


I hope what you said is true , but it's not, there were many anti China riots in South eastern Asaian countries and thousands of ethnic Chinese were raped and slaughtered like animials, but China didn't do anything cause China thinks they were their internal affairs .



HannibalBarca said:


> And it's not just the Uighurs... it's everywhere... In any situation... Muslims will find excuses to run from their responsibilities... We are seeing it when it comes to Palestine, Kashmir, Syria, Rohyngas etc...


We never heard even one perso died from this so called "genocide", isn't that strange for a massive persecution of million as some media claim? The only genocide which no one died in human history.
We can assure you that there indeed are tens of millions Muslims living their lives as a daily struggle, deaths is a daily fact, no food, no shelter, no secrutiy, no education, no future..., but they are not in China, Uighur are provided argubly the best life among Muslim world, so if you really care about Muslims, not pan turkism, you should know who you should really help.



HannibalBarca said:


> The other logic that many use also... is... When we get stronger... economically and military we will speak.... But it's the same as that guy who say that he doesn't have much to help his brother with few dollars but when he will get rich he will... Who on earth believe such guy to be genuine or truthful?


So how many dollars you helped your friends?

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> Why wouldn't it be? You lock up the whole Muslims population in concentration camps, the whole city presents an image of some war torn abandoned city. How would it be an expensive place.


Wow, a new claim that China locked up the whole Muslim population, so in Ningxia Hui province and Xinjiang Uighur province you see no people walking on the street?



DeadSparrow said:


> Why wouldn't it be? You lock up the whole Muslims population in concentration camps, the whole city presents an* image of some war torn abandoned city*. How would it be an expensive place.


Do you have a piciture or a video to back up this wild claim?


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## Numerous

$12,000 dollars a month whilst the average wage in China is probably like $10,000 a year or lower. What obvious lies & propaganda. 

The average doctor in the UK doesn't even earn £10k a month and this guy wants us to believe that many uighurs make $12,000 a month.


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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> $12,000 dollars a month whilst the average wage in China is probably like $10,000 a year or lower. What obvious lies & propaganda.


Do you know the different between a wage earner and a small business owner? For a small busniess owner if you can't make that money you should quit our business and find a job.


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## Numerous

beijingwalker said:


> Do you know the different between a wage earner and a small business owner? For a small busniess owner if you can't make that money you should quit our business and find a job.



I really doubt most small business owners earn $12,000 profit a month, either in the west or in china.

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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> I really doubt most small business owners earn $12,000 profit a month, either in the west or in china.


No one says all, some make more, some make less, of course.


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## American Pakistani

xyxmt said:


> I have one question just out of curiosity, where do you find all these articles about Chinese muslim's situation, are these articles pushed to readers based on your location, because nothing ever comes in my searches unless I specifically google it



I used to get such articles too along with massive indian propaganda articles, I took my time and slowly blocked all those garbage, I still recieve some but it is far lower than what I was getting before.

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## eldamar

DeadSparrow said:


> Watch this then make that statement. It's from an independent travel vlogger who doesn't really give a crap about the Uighurs. In fact, his other vlogs show the beauty of China and in a positive light except when he visits Urumqi and Kashgar and the famous Id Kha mosque.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why would telling China to stop violating human rights mean the end of relationship. Pakistani leaders especially Imran Khan came to power cursing and badmouthing America and using all kinds of obscenities against Trump and American nation (i remember vividly how he called Americans dumb for electing Trump and the crowd cheered) yet Pakistan is receiving help for economic bailout and there's no doubt about US-Pak relationship which despite its sour moments is always on track when needed.
> 
> Or Pakistan and Indias relationship, we've been at war, it has been terrible yet both countries trade and at times the relationship becomes good when there's not a madman like Modi in power.
> 
> This is nonsense and justification of soulless people. Turkey has publicly condemned China for their holocaust on Muslims yet Turkey is taking loans from China.
> 
> I don't know if you're a Muslim since this forum is overrun with Indians and communists so can't really tell but to a Muslim, there are three ranks of emaan. The highest is physically stopping oppression, then lower is condemning it with your mouth and the last is thinking it is wrong in your heart.
> 
> But of course, Pakistan is a coward country who can't dare attack India despite their repeated attempts so attacking China and liberating Uighur Muslims from these fascist Hitler grandsons communists is impossible to even dream about but don't be scared shitless.
> 
> Pakistan can easily condemn China and give a statement and be done with it.
> 
> These communists need Pakistan more than we need these communists. If Pakistan had a spine and feared Allah more than they fear China then we could've forced China to do a lot more cause of Pakistans geography.
> 
> But what I've seen - and God bless the courageous souls - is many Pakistanis don't even have the last rank of emaan and actually defend the holocaust by parroting Chinese lies. These Uighurs are terrorists, that's why China is doing it. Not long ago, China denied it, when exposed, it became terrorist reeeducation camps, wah.
> 
> What i find the height of Munafiqat from Muslims themselves is when Israel bombs Palestinians and call them terrorists, oh it's wrong and crimes against humanity or when India do it to Kashmiris, oh no poor Kashmiris. But when the most oppressive regime known to mankind today who's famous for censorship and absolute control of information and spying and communists of all people do what they're good at, it's all just Western propaganda?.
> 
> I feel like if Pakistan was getting money from Israel and India the way it's getting from China then it would've been okay to bomb Kashmir and Palestine too. Can't sabotage our relationship can we? And it would become western propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol joke of the century. Communism and Islam are opposite concepts. This is why China is cracking down hard on religion especially Muslims because Islam is the only religion which has made Jihad - fighting against oppression - mandatory on its followers and it sees it as a threat to the horrible genocides it has and wants to commit against people. This is why China is forcing them to renounce Islam.
> 
> https://islamqa.info/en/answers/3321/can-one-be-a-muslim-and-a-communist-at-the-same-time


You're quoting a personal opinion from an individual, which is just as informative as yours is(u might as well quote Quoran sources as well- my granny can write them too).

Do you even know what communism is all about?

I repeat: a Muslim can be communistic or democratic at the same time


And regarding the US having Pakistan's back.

I guess you like the weight the US sees the former's sovereignty has as a nation, when they killed Osama-bin laden?


Its like your guest shitting on your bed at his pleasure, as n when as he likes

Are u CIA's asset in Pakistan? Oh nvm, u won't admit it anyway

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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> I really doubt most small business owners earn $12,000 profit a month, either in the west or in china.


No locals will buy those handicrafts , they can just rip off rich and stupid tourists and that's what this video is all about. We Chinese have a weird idea that anything hand made has a human face, not a machine, committing their time and talent to make this happen for you, so it has some extraordinary value to it, so we pay absurdly high price for it, we often buy several so we can give some as gifts to friends. And Chinese tourists are world renowned big spenders.

One third of Xinjiang's GDP is from tourism, and Xinjing's GDP is the biggest in central Asian, bigger than kazakhstan, go figure how many job opportunities are supported by tourism alone in Xinjiang.


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## UKBengali

maximuswarrior said:


> India?



No China.


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## xyxmt

maximuswarrior said:


> More importantly, just have a good look at which specific sources and nations are actually spreading such anti-China news. It is not a coincidence at all. It is planned and well thought out.
> 
> We have to remember one thing. They played this same game back in the day with so-called godless Russian commies. Remember how the Americans and her allies pitched the idea of us believing in one God and the Russian commies being godless enemies? Connect the dots folks. They are playing the same game all over again. Only this time the godless enemy is supposed to be China.



that is what I am pointing at, American trade war with China and timing coincides with all of sudden Chinese Muslims are being targeted.



Numerous said:


> I mainly see them through facebook because I follow a lot of news websites + islamic speakers/scholars.
> 
> This page is pretty good - https://www.facebook.com/doamuslims2/
> Talks about a whole range of issues from kashmir to syria to uighurs in china etc...



Thanks God I was never part of that propaganda site

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## masterchief_mirza

DeadSparrow said:


> So Russians are good people and the Soviets didn't commit any wrongs?


They have he right to deal with their own problems, just like any other nation. The point here is that USA-led military-industrial-MEDIA complex has no right to preach to any nation as it selectively intervenes based on its interests alone. Because of the influence of media throughout its post-WW2 project, it projects its enemies in a way that justifies any future intervention. It has interests like all other nations, fine, but USA propaganda should be assessed cautiously - what is the intended outcome? Who benefits? Follow the audit trail. It always ends with financial gain, xtian fundamentalism or blind protection of its middle eastern outposts.

For the record, Russian annexation of Crimea was supposed to spark abuses against Crimeans, genocide and world war 3 - none of that happened! Russia handled its local business and will rapidly be developing Crimea to the benefit of the Crimeans and Russians alike. Likewise the outcome in Chechnya was ultimately peaceful and Chechnyans gained wealth and autonomy. I'm not defending Stalin here - but not everything Russia or USSR did was evil and/or unjustifiable. From what I have read, China intends to uplift Xinjiang economically and crush terrorism/rebellion and clearly the majority of the Uighur folks want this outcome. An ISIS type proliferation is under way in central Asia and China is resisting it. ISIS is not some glorious indigenous rebellion but rather it is a well funded puppet organization used to disrupt various nations around the globe with only a select few benefitting from the ensuing chaos. USA is the master of playing these games and retraining plausible deniability of any involvement if it goes wrong. Had the American funded terrorists won in Syria, they would have been trumpeted as "moderate", "progressive" etc etc enough to make me sick. Be aware of what USA's game plan is.

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## UKBengali

maximuswarrior said:


> Should we pose the same question for the American warmongers or would that be a sin?
> 
> Listen up, we are not going to become party in Western fetish to contain China. We are not stupid. We know who is making these noises and for what purpose.
> 
> China might be dealing too harshly with the Uyghur issue, but it is their internal matter. Pakistan can and should convey its advise as a friend. However, China is totally justified to take care of Western sponsored renegade groups. Western reporting on China cannot be taken as word of God. Western wish to contain Chinese rise is no secret to anyone. The West and particularly the Americans love to instigate chaos among ethnic and religious lines. They do it in Pakistan and they have done it elsewhere. This case is no different.



So again it comes down to "internal matter" excuse? 

China is oppressing Muslims and Muslim Pakistanis are here defending them.

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## beijingwalker

UKBengali said:


> So again it comes down to "internal matter" excuse?
> 
> China is oppressing Muslims and Muslim Pakistanis are here defending them.


How did BD help? Did BD help Kashmiris against Indian persecution?

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## chengdusudise

Feng Leng said:


> Wait... I thought we were harvesting their organs. Can dead people drink alcohol or eat?


they were genocided by ccp.they already become extinct.I wonder where our enemy can find even a single uighur.


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## UKBengali

beijingwalker said:


> How did BD help? Did BD help Kashmiris against Indian persecution?



Dude, I strongly condemn India occupying and oppressing Kashmiri Muslims.

Now stop trying to divert against your cultural genocide of Uighurs.

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## beijingwalker

UKBengali said:


> Dude, I strongly condemn India occupying and oppressing Kahmiri Muslims.
> 
> Now stop trying to divert against your cultural genocide of Uighurs.


YOU means nothing, everyone can talk, but the government position decides the relations between countries, BD is still in bed with India against Muslim brother countries.

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## UKBengali

beijingwalker said:


> YOU means nothing, everyone can talk, but the government position decides the relations between countries, BD is still in bed with India against Muslim brother countries.



We are not governments but posters on PDF here. 

Some Pakistanis are now coming out against China against Uighur oppression and we just need others to see the real face of China.


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## Rasengan

UKBengali said:


> Dude, I strongly condemn India occupying and oppressing Kahmiri Muslims.
> 
> Now stop trying to divert against your cultural genocide of Uighurs.



What cultural genocide is occurring against the Uighurs? You mean them being forced out of their ancestral homes? Sorry to burst your bubble but those homes are dangerous to live in. They are old were built centuries ago, therefore, the Govt did the right action in relocating the population to more modern homes. The official language in China is Mandarin but that doesn't stop people from speaking Uighur. If you go to Guangdong people still speak Cantonese although similar its different to Mandarin. If you are going to make a statement then at least back it up. Besides, you should worry about Bangladesh a land where people are disappearing and your prime minister is viewed as a dictator across the world.

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## UKBengali

Rasengan said:


> What cultural genocide is occurring against the Uighurs? You mean them being forced out of their ancestral homes? Sorry to burst your bubble but those homes are dangerous to live in. They are old were built centuries ago, therefore, the Govt did the right action in relocating the population to more modern homes. The official language in China is Mandarin but that doesn't stop people from speaking Uighur. If you go to Guangdong people still speak Cantonese although similar its different to Mandarin. If you are going to make a statement then at least back it up. Besides, you should worry about Bangladesh a land where people are disappearing and your prime minister is viewed as a dictator across the world.



Dude, you need to read up how China has imprisoned 1 million Uighurs in order to "re-educate" them.


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## Rasengan

UKBengali said:


> Dude, you need to read up how China has imprisoned 1 million Uighurs in order to "re-educate" them.



I don't need to read up on anything. I have lived, worked and travelled across China to know what the ground realities are. I was also studying this issue during my University days which was more than 15 years ago, so naturally, I had questions which my friends in China helped to dispel. Instead of reading propaganda buy yourself a plane ticket and see for yourself. There are tensions between the Uighur and the Han community but its more to do with social issues rather than culture or religion. China has 56 ethnic groups with a population of 1.3 billion people its bound to have some problems. Those who arrest the Uighur are Uighur policeman. When Uighurs attack people they don't distinguish who is Muslim.

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## UKBengali

Rasengan said:


> I don't need to read up on anything. I have lived, worked and travelled across China to know what the ground realities are. I was also studying this issue during my University days which was more than 15 years ago, so naturally, I had questions which my friends in China helped to dispel. Instead of reading propaganda buy yourself a plane ticket and see for yourself. There are tensions between the Uighur and the Han community but its more to do with social issues rather than culture or religion. China has 56 ethnic groups with a population of 1.3 billion people its bound to have some problems. Those who arrest the Uighur are Uighur policeman. When Uighurs attack people they don't distinguish who is Muslim.



When was the last time you visited Uighur region?


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## beijingwalker

UKBengali said:


> When was the last time you visited Uighur region?


When was the last time you visited Uighur region?

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## Rasengan

The last time I visited the region was back in 2014. Naturally, you will state that much of the policies are different in China which has infringed on the rights of the Uighurs. But this is bullshit because these claims have been stamped on China back in my University days. Uighurs are forced to eat pork, they can't keep beards, forced to drink alcohol, can't fast during Ramadan, they can't pray etc. Same old bullshit is recycled for more than 30 years.

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## UKBengali

beijingwalker said:


> When was the last time you visited Uighur region?



Why would I want to? 

China's attempt to wipe out Uighur culture has plenty of evidence from multiple sources.

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## Indos

Rasengan said:


> The last time I visited the region was back in 2014. Naturally, you will state that much of the policies are different in China which has infringed on the rights of the Uighurs. But this is bullshit because these claims have been stamped on China back in my University days. Uighurs are forced to eat pork, they can't keep beards, forced to drink alcohol, can't fast during Ramadan, they can't pray etc. Same old bullshit is recycled for more than 30 years.



This is Google Translate of Indonesian news

Kamis 28 Februari 2019, 05:00 WIB

*After Visiting Xinjiang Muslims, This is the Step of the Indonesian Delegation*

The Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) and Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) and Muhammadiyah visited the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region Province, China, last week. The visit provided a perspective and hope regarding freedom of worship for Uighur Muslims.

"After we visited, heard, watched and interacted with the local community, especially those who participated in vocational activities concluded, among others, the constitution of the Republic of China is very secular, meaning giving freedom to citizens for religion or not," said Chairman of the MUI Foreign Affairs Division Muhyiddin Junaidi when contacted, Tuesday (2/26/2019).

"Second, he separates religion from government issues. So religion is a personal matter, this public business has no business with religion," he continued.

While in China, the Indonesian delegation was given the opportunity to hold a series of meetings with clerical leaders, community leaders, and visits to the Xinjiang Islamic Institute along with several mosques. The delegation also visited the vocational training center in Xinjiang.

"This training center is alleged to be a concentration camp or re-education center," he said.

Junaidi saw the attitude of the Chinese government was inseparable from the trauma of the terror that occurred in the Bamboo Curtain country. The training center contains men and women who are allegedly exposed to radicalism.

"Broadly speaking, it is understood that the Chinese constitution is very easily misinterpreted. So Muslims should not apply their religion well in the public space. So they are not allowed to wear headscarves or prayers in public spaces. If found, put in radical groups. Then put in "The vocation camp is considered not nationalist," Junaidi said.

This training center is filled with Uighur Muslims. They were given skills training there. The facts obtained there, the trainees were unable to worship freely in public spaces including the training center.

"If people fast, pray, are considered radical. It is not permissible in the camp. They can only offer prayers, read the Koran if they have returned to their homes. The issue of religion is a personal matter, it should not be shown in public," he said.

If you violate these rules, the potential to be included in the radical category until it is put into the training center. Junaidi found that freedom of worship for Muslims can be done in a special Muslim educational institution or mosque.

This condition certainly makes a Muslim very limited in worship. He said if this continued, the silencing of religious faiths happens.

"But what happens if this continues? Silencing the faith. Because religion will be uprooted from its roots. Especially in China it is determined that parents cannot force religious children unless it is 18 years old. In Islam it is recommended to teach children from an early age," he said .

Junaidi believes, wisdom is needed to understand this condition. Because, when compared to the constitution in Indonesia, the situation of religious freedom is truly in contrast.

According to him, a persuasive approach is needed so that the Chinese government can provide better worship space for Muslims who are there. In addition, he hopes religious institutions will also be involved in providing 'radical' interpretations.

"We hope that the Chinese government will give Muslims the opportunity to perform ritual worship on the sidelines of their training. Participants are also entitled to Muslim food. Secondly, the CIA (China Islamic Association) is included in the process of issuing fatwas about radicalism, religious viewpoints. ask and hope that the Chinese Government does not generalize Muslims who carry out worship related to radicalism, "Junaidi said.

The same thing was expressed by PBNU Chairperson Robikin Emhas. Robikin hopes that religious organizations and other relevant parties will be involved in setting indicators of 'extremism' and 'radical'. So that there is no person who practices religion well but is categorized as radical.

Robikin who also participated in the delegation said that he was happy because the Chinese government was committed to anti-radicalism and anti-terrorism. He also supports the deradicalisation program being implemented. Even so, he hopes the Chinese government guarantees freedom of worship.

"We sincerely hope that the constitutional guarantee of citizens to embrace religion can carry out their worship according to their respective religions. We understand that the Chinese government separates religion and state. But because the freedom of religion is guaranteed by the constitution, it is hoped that citizens are also given the freedom to worship," Robikin said.

As a follow up to this visit, Robikin said the delegation would deliver the results of the visit to the government. Until then the notes and hopes can be conveyed to the Chinese authorities.

"God willing

https://news.detik.com/berita/d-4447233/usai-kunjungi-muslim-xinjiang-ini-langkah-delegasi-indonesia

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## beijingwalker

UKBengali said:


> Why would I want to?
> 
> China's attempt to wipe out Uighur culture has plenty of evidence from multiple sources.


So why did you ask him? even he last visited Xinjiang 100 years ago still knows better than someone like you who never did.

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## yantong1980

UKBengali said:


> Why would I want to?
> 
> China's attempt to wipe out Uighur culture has plenty of evidence from multiple sources.



It seems for you and others that share same idea with you, there's no room anymore for any logic nor something sensible when facing 'sensitive issues' like this, do you? Many, many occasions, I see people like you drag into 'complicated situation' and lost everything because 'misguiding', 'misinformation' in the name of 'something', but I presume you don't care either eh? Then the problem it isn't your concern about Uighur culture nor China wrongdoing, but face it like a MAN, you're THE PROBLEM.

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## Offshore

UKBengali said:


> Why would I want to?
> 
> China's attempt to wipe out Uighur culture has plenty of evidence from multiple sources.


get it right, islamic culture is not uighur culture

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## fisher1

maximuswarrior said:


> Should we pose the same question for the American warmongers or would that be a sin?
> 
> Listen up, we are not going to become party in Western fetish to contain China. We are not stupid. We know who is making these noises and for what purpose.
> 
> China might be dealing too harshly with the Uyghur issue, but it is their internal matter. Pakistan can and should convey its advise as a friend. However, China is totally justified to take care of Western sponsored renegade groups. Western reporting on China cannot be taken as word of God. Western wish to contain Chinese rise is no secret to anyone. The West and particularly the Americans love to instigate chaos among ethnic and religious lines. They do it in Pakistan and they have done it elsewhere. This case is no different.



Nobody is denying the crimes that America has done. I love how speaking up about Chinese means you forget American terrorism. No.

Just because you hate America doesn't mean you have to support their enemies even if they're doing wrong.

I hate America less than these commie evil in human form because Americans haven't attacked someone's faith. They may bomb someone and give them the rank of martyr but these commies who see religion as a sin are not attacking lives but souls. That's right. They're forcing Uighur to give up Islam and torture them until they go completely blotto or submit from the horrors.

No, it is not China's internal matter. China doesn't own people, it owns land but it doesn't own people. As a human and especially as a Muslim, it is your duty to raise voice against oppression.

I think Muslims should capitalise on America's war against China. The communists are a sick bunch and we have seen it with Soviet union. People in my country i talk to unanimously say "they were sakht zalim". Look at how Russia is still supporting China.

We don't want another Soviet union to rise in the form of China, do we? Only several times sick and uncaring of human life and values.

Pakistan has the most power to stop China in its tacks because China wants our land for bri and CPEC and if we continue to feign ignorance and support China, don't you worry for a second that Pakistan will become a far bigger shithole than it is and maybe Allah will even make us the victims of these commies. We saw how India fearlessly attacked Pakistan and if it wasn't for pure "luck" ie blessings of Allah, the story today would've been different.

Between a commie and an American or jews, i feel safer with Americans and Jews. An American will kill me at most but the commies will do whatever sick shit comes to his mind.

Also Pakistanis can keep fooling themselves, where were these Iron Brothers when India was attacking us. They were watching how we respond like a bunch of sick freaks. I wouldn't be surprised if China had actually funded India and given support to them.

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> Nobody is denying the crimes that America has done. I love how speaking up about Chinese means you forget American terrorism. No.
> 
> Just because you hate America doesn't mean you have to support their enemies even if they're doing wrong.
> 
> I hate America less than these commie evil in human form because Americans haven't attacked someone's faith. They may bomb someone and give them the rank of martyr but these commies who see religion as a sin are not attacking lives but souls. That's right. They're forcing Uighur to give up Islam and torture them until they go completely blotto or submit from the horrors.
> 
> No, it is not China's internal matter. China doesn't own people, it owns land but it doesn't own people. As a human and especially as a Muslim, it is your duty to raise voice against oppression.
> 
> I think Muslims should capitalise on America's war against China. The communists are a sick bunch and we have seen it with Soviet union. People in my country i talk to unanimously say "they were sakht zalim". Look at how Russia is still supporting China.
> 
> We don't want another Soviet union to rise in the form of China, do we? Only several times sick and uncaring of human life and values.
> 
> Pakistan has the most power to stop China in its tacks because China wants our land for bri and CPEC and if we continue to feign ignorance and support China, don't you worry for a second that Pakistan will become a far bigger shithole than it is and maybe Allah will even make us the victims of these commies. We saw how India fearlessly attacked Pakistan and if it wasn't for pure "luck" ie blessings of Allah, the story today would've been different.
> 
> Between a commie and an American or jews, i feel safer with Americans and Jews. An American will kill me at most but the commies will do whatever sick shit comes to his mind.
> 
> Also Pakistanis can keep fooling themselves, where were these Iron Brothers when India was attacking us. They were watching how we respond like a bunch of sick freaks. I wouldn't be surprised if China had actually funded India and given support to them.


You can run for the prime minister of Pakistan and make your dream come true, good luck with it.

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## Offshore

DeadSparrow said:


> Nobody is denying the crimes that America has done. I love how speaking up about Chinese means you forget American terrorism. No.
> 
> Just because you hate America doesn't mean you have to support their enemies even if they're doing wrong.
> 
> I hate America less than these commie evil in human form because Americans haven't attacked someone's faith. They may bomb someone and give them the rank of martyr but these commies who see religion as a sin are not attacking lives but souls. That's right. They're forcing Uighur to give up Islam and torture them until they go completely blotto or submit from the horrors.
> 
> No, it is not China's internal matter. China doesn't own people, it owns land but it doesn't own people. As a human and especially as a Muslim, it is your duty to raise voice against oppression.
> 
> I think Muslims should capitalise on America's war against China. The communists are a sick bunch and we have seen it with Soviet union. People in my country i talk to unanimously say "they were sakht zalim". Look at how Russia is still supporting China.
> 
> We don't want another Soviet union to rise in the form of China, do we? Only several times sick and uncaring of human life and values.
> 
> *Pakistan has the most power to stop China *in its tacks because China wants our land for bri and CPEC and if we continue to feign ignorance and support China, don't you worry for a second that Pakistan will become a far bigger shithole than it is and maybe Allah will even make us the victims of these commies. We saw how India fearlessly attacked Pakistan and if it wasn't for pure "luck" ie blessings of Allah, the story today would've been different.
> 
> Between a commie and an American or jews, i feel safer with Americans and Jews. An American will kill me at most but the commies will do whatever sick shit comes to his mind.
> 
> Also Pakistanis can keep fooling themselves, where were these Iron Brothers when India was attacking us. They were watching how we respond like a bunch of sick freaks. I wouldn't be surprised if China had actually funded India and given support to them.



for **** sake

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## fisher1

UKBengali said:


> So again it comes down to "internal matter" excuse?
> 
> China is oppressing Muslims and Muslim Pakistanis are here defending them.



It makes me feel sick to the core.



beijingwalker said:


> You can run for the prime minister of Pakistan and make your dream come true, good luck with it.



By the time that happens, the only place Uighurs can be found would be in textbooks just like the Tiananmen square protestors. 
That's right, Uighurs aren't the only people, Chinese are known to suppress its minorities. Just look at this poster against Tibetans, you just can't make this shit up and only requires a sick Chinese to make them






Unhealthy thoughts? Wow.

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## UKBengali

DeadSparrow said:


> It makes me feel sick to the core.



I admit I used to be a bit of a Chinese "fan boy" before the Rohingya exodus of August 2017 opened my eyes to what their values are. 
Defending mass killers, rapists and ethnic cleansers at UN every time is not what a supposed civilised country in the 21st Century should be doing. 
Yes US is bad as well but that does not absolve China of it's own wrongdoings.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> When was the last time you visited Uighur region?



After his posts on these forums, i don't think he should ever visit China. If they were to ever make the connection, you know what will happen to the "terrorist" UKBengali who had unhealthy thoughts and need re-education... Wink wink



Rasengan said:


> The last time I visited the region was back in 2014. Naturally, you will state that much of the policies are different in China which has infringed on the rights of the Uighurs. But this is bullshit because these claims have been stamped on China back in my University days. Uighurs are forced to eat pork, they can't keep beards, forced to drink alcohol, can't fast during Ramadan, they can't pray etc. Same old bullshit is recycled for more than 30 years.



This is Urumqi today. 





Where are all the Muslims and why aren't they praying or practicing Ramadan?

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> Unhealthy thoughts? Wow.



What's wrong with it? word fo word translation sounds funny in English but perfectly Ok in Chinese language, "unhealthy contents or material" in Chinese most times refer to **** contents but can also mean whatever may hurt people's physical body and mind, this poster can be found everywhere in China.



DeadSparrow said:


> After his posts on these forums, i don't think he should ever visit China. If they were to ever make the connection, you know what will happen to the "terrorist" UKBengali who had unhealthy thoughts and need re-education... Wink wink
> 
> 
> 
> This is Urumqi today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are all the Muslims and why aren't they praying or practicing Ramadan?


If you are hell bent to find a dirty place and use it to smear a country you will find it even in the cleanest country in the world, if you are hell bent to find someone who hates their government, you will find one even in the most patriotic country, the opposite is also true, I can find hundreds videos showing what Urumqi looks like. but I bet you Urumqi looks way better than any cities in central and south Asian cities, Urumqi can put all western cities in EU and North America to shame with it super modern infrastructure.

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## waz

DeadSparrow said:


> Watch this then make that statement. It's from an independent travel vlogger who doesn't really give a crap about the Uighurs. In fact, his other vlogs show the beauty of China and in a positive light except when he visits Urumqi and Kashgar and the famous Id Kha mosque.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why would telling China to stop violating human rights mean the end of relationship. Pakistani leaders especially Imran Khan came to power cursing and badmouthing America and using all kinds of obscenities against Trump and American nation (i remember vividly how he called Americans dumb for electing Trump and the crowd cheered) yet Pakistan is receiving help for economic bailout and there's no doubt about US-Pak relationship which despite its sour moments is always on track when needed.
> 
> Or Pakistan and Indias relationship, we've been at war, it has been terrible yet both countries trade and at times the relationship becomes good when there's not a madman like Modi in power.
> 
> This is nonsense and justification of soulless people. Turkey has publicly condemned China for their holocaust on Muslims yet Turkey is taking loans from China.
> 
> I don't know if you're a Muslim since this forum is overrun with Indians and communists so can't really tell but to a Muslim, there are three ranks of emaan. The highest is physically stopping oppression, then lower is condemning it with your mouth and the last is thinking it is wrong in your heart.
> 
> But of course, Pakistan is a coward country who can't dare attack India despite their repeated attempts so attacking China and liberating Uighur Muslims from these fascist Hitler grandsons communists is impossible to even dream about but don't be scared shitless.
> 
> Pakistan can easily condemn China and give a statement and be done with it.
> 
> These communists need Pakistan more than we need these communists. If Pakistan had a spine and feared Allah more than they fear China then we could've forced China to do a lot more cause of Pakistans geography.
> 
> But what I've seen - and God bless the courageous souls - is many Pakistanis don't even have the last rank of emaan and actually defend the holocaust by parroting Chinese lies. These Uighurs are terrorists, that's why China is doing it. Not long ago, China denied it, when exposed, it became terrorist reeeducation camps, wah.
> 
> What i find the height of Munafiqat from Muslims themselves is when Israel bombs Palestinians and call them terrorists, oh it's wrong and crimes against humanity or when India do it to Kashmiris, oh no poor Kashmiris. But when the most oppressive regime known to mankind today who's famous for censorship and absolute control of information and spying and communists of all people do what they're good at, it's all just Western propaganda?.
> 
> I feel like if Pakistan was getting money from Israel and India the way it's getting from China then it would've been okay to bomb Kashmir and Palestine too. Can't sabotage our relationship can we? And it would become western propaganda.



I've seen the videos and commented on them. There are issues there i.e. the tough line has spoilt the mood in the region.
Telling China to stop it's 'human rights violations' will damage the relationship beyond repair. If you are an ally you don't rebuke your friend in front of the world's media and expect everything to be rosy afterwards. Think of it on a micro level, you find out your friend is doing something you deem unethical, are you suddenly going to bring it up in front of mutual friends and his family, or will you speak to him/her privately? Obviously you will speak to them in a private manner, the phrase 'not putting out your dirty laundry for all to see' comes to mind.

With regards to the US/Pak relationship, it's not on track, in actual fact it's never been lower, this has been highlighted by both Pakistani and Western writers. The cancelling of Pakistani cadets participating on military programs, the cut to all military aid and training programs, the accusations of duplicity at the highest level and I could go on. The bailout from the IMF has stringent requirements that are to be met, and the US couldn't see a worse case scenario happen with a nuclear weapons state going through economic meltdown.

As to the relationship with India, I'm sorry but you wrote; "good at times", since when? Ok you mentioned when Modi has not been in charge, may I add that all 3 of the wars fought were with a Congress government in charge. You did mention war, but then the major skirmishes of The Rann of Kutch and The Siachen glacier were also fought with an aggressive Congress administration in charge. What about the slaughter and rape of Kashmiris which began in 1990 and then onwards? That was Congress as well, the knocking down of the Babri Mosque in 92, no BJP in power then either. There has never been a time when relations were 'good', they have been quiet at best.
Turkey can make statements like that as they do not face the level of threat Pakistan does.

China's relationship with Pakistan is mutually beneficial, I don't believe there is a 'they need us more than we need them' element in this relationship. Bringing faith into this doesn't change ground realities such as Pakistan without China's help would face very bleak times. I can bring up a whole range of issues to support my assertion but let's just bring up the issue of water sharing. Did you now that it was China's threats when Modi came out with his infamous 'blood for water' speech, and members of his government spoke about cancelling the treaty and strangling Pakistan's supply. China responded through back channels, something which the Indian press reported on, that they will do the same and even worse not just with the Brahmaputra river but also major tributaries that feed the Ganges and capping the river Sutlej. This sent shockwaves through their administration and threats died down, now we have a simple "we will take our full share". What would have Pakistan done had the relationship with China not existed? Nothing and it's 215 million people would face the most severe of reprisals.

As for asking if I was Muslim, why wouldn't you think I was? The forum is not overrun with Indians and communists, we have a diverse range of people here. Yes I am aware of the hadith but I don't defend what China does wholeheartedly, there were alternatives, but then again I'm also not willing to put the Chinese relationship at risk, and I also admire a country which had its face in the dirt in the early 19th century, faced a genocidal war at the hands of the Japanese, went though a revolution and now has taken it's place on the world stage as the only other superpower bar the USA.

As for the stuff about the Uhguir people I read this not so long ago;



*There are Uighurs in positions of authority in Xinjiang.*

*Many of the government officials and police officers who tailed and stopped us were Uighurs.*

If they feel in any way conflicted they cannot say it of course.

But while the system of profiling and control has been likened by some to Apartheid, *clearly that is not entirely accurate.*

*Many Uighurs do have a stake in the system.*

*In reality a better parallel can be found in China's own totalitarian past.*

*As in the Cultural Revolution, a society is being told that it needs to be taken apart in order to be saved.*

Shohrat Zakir, a Uighur and, in theory, the second most powerful politician in the region, suggests the battle has almost been won.

*“In the past 21 months, no violent terrorist attacks have occurred and the number of criminal cases, including those endangering public security, has dropped significantly,” he is reported to have told state media.

“Xinjiang is not only beautiful but also safe and stable.”*

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps


I've noticed this as well, with the dozens of Uighur videos I have seen, why are so many of the security forces Uighur, why were the secret police Uighur and even the people in charge of the education schools/camps whatever people call them Uighur as well? They already are a small population (11 million or so) how can you raise the numbers required to make them such a visible presence in enforcing all this?
The BBC article clearly uses the word many, that's not a few, or a minority but many who have bought into the system. Are they all munaqfiqs as well? What happens if people came across them and they told folks to mind your own business?
This whole thing is weird because you certainly do not see the Palestinians, Rohingya and Kashmiris to name a few groups lining up to join the Israeli, Indian and Burmese armies/security forces/agencies. 

On the point about the Pakistanis, the PM, government and so forth being cowardly there are clear reasons why Pakistanis won't and probably never will speak. Many will point about they are being pragmatic and putting their national interest first, what's wrong with that they will say? Some will have the opposing few.
But anyway I'd thought I would reply back.

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## ZeEa5KPul

DeadSparrow said:


> We saw how India fearlessly attacked Pakistan and if it wasn't for pure "luck" ie blessings of Allah, the story today would've been different.


It wasn't Allah or luck. The only reason India didn't maul you was the weapons and training China supplied you with. Just like the only reason your country still exists is the nuclear weapons China gave you.


DeadSparrow said:


> Also Pakistanis can keep fooling themselves, where were these Iron Brothers when India was attacking us. They were watching how we respond like a bunch of sick freaks. I wouldn't be surprised if China had actually funded India and given support to them.


Understand one very simple thing: Xinjiang is Chinese territory now and forever, and China will not tolerate any interference in its domestic affairs by anyone. You think you can oppose China? Let's see how you like the cow-p*ss drinkers and their Akhand Bharat once China abandons you.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Understand one very simple thing: Xinjiang is Chinese territory now and forever, and China will not tolerate any interference in its domestic affairs by anyone. You think you can oppose China? Let's see how you like the cow-p*ss drinkers and their Akhand Bharat once China abandons you.



Try not to drag Pakistan into this disagreement with our resident Nawaz Sharif supporter.

We ruled India for 1000 years, we can do it again. We don’t need anyone’s help.

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## sixth

Lets say if Government forcing people to eat and drink is true, and that enforcement is "suppress" people.
Government is an entity formed by people for people.

Than religion making up some sort of doctrine to ban people to eat and drink at certain time, is it religion also suppressing people?
Religious organization is an entity formed by people using an imaginary super being.

What is the point the Government force people to eat and drink if people don't want to.
What the Government can't gain out of it?
Even a person go for suicide, kill himself, there is no law to illegalize it. If you want to kill yourself, go ahead, it's not illegal, isn't it?

If people have a brain, use it, why Government have to bother if you don't want to eat or drink?

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## IFB

If the western media say anything about india then their article are linked in various threads as proof...if the same western media say anything about china its propaganda

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## UKBengali

ZeEa5KPul said:


> It wasn't Allah or luck. The only reason India didn't maul you was the weapons and training China supplied you with. Just like the only reason your country still exists is the nuclear weapons China gave you.
> 
> Understand one very simple thing: Xinjiang is Chinese territory now and forever, and China will not tolerate any interference in its domestic affairs by anyone. You think you can oppose China? Let's see how you like the cow-p*ss drinkers and their Akhand Bharat once China abandons you.



First point I can agree on. 

2nd point, China needs a strong Pakistan for both transport/ energy links to Arabian Sea and also to keep India busy in S Asia. Try not to make it look like China is doing Pakistan any favours here.

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## Numerous

xyxmt said:


> that is what I am pointing at, American trade war with China and timing coincides with all of sudden Chinese Muslims are being targeted.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks God I was never part of that propaganda site



Lol what's propaganda, facebook or doam?


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## Sanchez

IFB said:


> If the western media say anything about india then their article are linked in various threads as proof...if the same western media say anything about china its propaganda



I am sympathetic...but wasn't Indian media part of Western type of sh*t?


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## Realtalk108

UKBengali said:


> First point I can agree on.
> 
> 2nd point, China needs a strong Pakistan for both transport/ energy links to Arabian Sea and also to keep India busy in S Asia. Try not to make it look like China is doing Pakistan any favours here.



A strong, economically vibrant Pakistan will be good for China. But let's not pretend China needs Pakistan for "transport link".

[

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## Sanchez

Theoretically we should relocate the Uighur separatists to Yemen or Syria on China's cost! We can see how these lazy, uneducated, unskilled Uighurs survive in the pure Islam world where people screw each other to death! 

We should also learn from US Guantanamo management to deal with terrorists!

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## waz

Please do not make silly posts@everyone.


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## UKBengali

Realtalk108 said:


> A strong, economically vibrant Pakistan will be good for China. But let's not pretend China needs Pakistan for "transport link".
> 
> [




Dude, what do you think CPEC is for?

It is building road, rail and transport links from Gwadar to Western China.

Please read up on CPEC to fully understand why it has been undertaken.


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## obj 705A

every day the normal threads section is being spammed by "mah Tibetans, mah Uyghurs, mah Christians" threads by people who basicly just want to say "I hate China" so they keep reposting the same news over and over again, so how about making a new sticky thread and call it "the I hate China thread" where they can post their garbage anti China coments.
or may be make a new sticky thread and call it "Chinese social news" where they can post both positive and negative issues.

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## TheTruth

UKBengali said:


> Who is the chief backer of Myanmar dude?



LOL you think China not building hydropower will make Myanmar stop killing illegals?


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## Realtalk108

UKBengali said:


> Dude, what do you think CPEC is for?
> 
> It is building road, rail and transport links from Gwadar to Western China.
> 
> Please read up on CPEC to fully understand why it has been undertaken.



Sure but it goes both ways. It's not like China alone will benefit.

To put it differently, what would happen if this link was absent? Answer: Nothing. It would be just like it is today.

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## UKBengali

Realtalk108 said:


> Sure but it goes both ways. It's not like China alone will benefit.
> 
> To put it differently, what would happen if this link was absent? Answer: Nothing. It would be just like it is today.



Dude, you need to up your thinking a little. 

Without the link the ever expanding Chinese economy gets more and more vulnerable to US blockade.


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## Char

child, civil servant, CCP member are banned in religious active including but not limited to Islamic.

this is law!

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## TheTruth

UKBengali said:


> Dude, you need to up your thinking a little.
> 
> Without the link the ever expanding Chinese economy gets more and more vulnerable to US blockade.



China has 4 other land routes spanning Eurasia. Don't believe everything you read.


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## denel

HU angang is the cuplrit whose ultra nationalist agenda has caused this massive scale oppression against Uighurs and TIbet. This bastard needs to be taken to ICC to be held for trial just like what happened in Rwanda.



denel said:


> HU angang is the cuplrit whose ultra nationalist agenda has caused this massive scale oppression against Uighurs and TIbet. This bastard needs to be taken to ICC to be held for trial just like what happened in Rwanda.




https://www.kcl.ac.uk/events/the-de-politicization-of-the-uyghurs-in-china-2

http://www.chinafile.com/library/nyrb-china-archive/reeducating-xinjiangs-muslims

Shame on muslims for keeping quiet on this. Raise awareness and if this professor comes to visit please highlight and protest where required. He needs to be brought to trial for crimes against humanity.


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## Jaanbaz

There is a massive difference between atheistic/agnostic societies of Western Europe who took centuries to reach a level maturity where they clamped down on Church's power to a state sanctioned Atheism where you force people to go against their religion. We won't know the full extent of this policy in East Turkistan as free media is not allowed in China, there is no opposition or civil society.


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## Chhatrapati

This must be fake news. Western propaganda, because Iron brother doesn't seem to flinch. Or money trumps everything?



Char said:


> child, civil servant, CCP member are banned in religious active including but not limited to Islamic.
> 
> this is law!



I always find communism in the sense of a religion. Not many agree with me tho.

Prophet ? Check ( Karl Marx ). Another prophet like Friedrich Engels later Stalin, Lenin coming to ranks. Sorry, Mao didn't make it to the list, if he was smart enough to write his own ideas. Still did a 'crusade' Meh!

Holy book(s)? Check (Das Kapital, Communist manifesto.)

Bloody history? Check (It has killed millions of people in the name of Communism. Mao even Put Lenin to shame.)

Mummies of important leaders/'prophet'? Check (Lenin was mummified and kept in a glass house, so is Mao Zedong).


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## Realtalk108

UKBengali said:


> Dude, you need to up your thinking a little.
> 
> Without the link the ever expanding Chinese economy gets more and more vulnerable to US blockade.



Blockade? You mean a military blockade? US doesn't have the capacity to militarily blockade China anymore. But, for the sake of argument let's assume they did. In that case, what's stopping them from blockading Gwadar as well? Nothing, right? If they can blockade China, they sure as hell can blockade Pakistan too.

Or did you just assume America wouldn't notice that there is this other route?

This route has NO geo-strategic value. Zero. Zilch. Zip. It might have had some utility if this were 1910. Today, not so much. It's just a trade route.


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## UKBengali

Realtalk108 said:


> Blockade? You mean a military blockade? US doesn't have the capacity to militarily blockade China anymore. But, for the sake of argument let's assume they did. In that case, what's stopping them from blockading Gwadar as well? Nothing, right? If they can blockade China, they sure as hell can blockade Pakistan too.
> 
> Or did you just assume America wouldn't notice that there is this other route?
> 
> This route has NO geo-strategic value. Zero. Zilch. Zip. It might have had some utility if this were 1910. Today, not so much. It's just a trade route.




And the US has unlimited resources to blockade all outlets that they please?
PLAAN will in due course not base one of their CBGs at Gawadar?

Dude, you need to learn ABC about strategic warfare and geopolitics.


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## Realtalk108

UKBengali said:


> And the US has unlimited resources to blockade all outlets that they please?
> PLAAN will in due course not base one of their CBGs at Gawadar?
> 
> Dude, you need to learn ABC about strategic warfare and geopolitics.



If we admit that US can blockade China, then yeah, they very much can blockade Pakistan simultaneously .


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## UKBengali

Realtalk108 said:


> If we admit that US can blockade China, then yeah, they very much can blockade Pakistan simultaneously .




Dude, please stop digging yourself into an even bigger hole. It is embarrassing to see.


8 AIP diesel subs are being sold by China to Pakistan and also 4 modernised Type-054A derivatives are also going to join PN soon.

PLAAN will in due course base one of their CBGs in Gwadar. Coupled with the expanding PN, Gwadar will have some serious firepower to stop anyone, IN or USN from trying to blockade it.


USN will have to blockade the Malacca straight, Myanmar and also Pakistan in order to cut off China's sea lanes of communication - this may stretch their resources to breaking point.


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## Gandhi G in da house

Sau baaton ki ek baat.

If Pakistanis keep quiet on an issue like this, nobody will take your voices on Kashmir seriously, and that is exactly what is happening.

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## UKBengali

nick_indian said:


> Sau baaton ki ek baat.
> 
> If Pakistanis keep quiet on an issue like this, nobody will take your voices on Kashmir seriously, and that is exactly what is happening.




Exactly right.

To their credit some Pakistanis are openly criticising China on this. Majority are still keeping quiet as they think it will harm their relationship with China, which is not true as the Chinese cannot replace Pakistan with anyone else. Chinese will just have to take the Pakistani criticism and carry on as normal. 

Even a senior Pakistani official criticised China in the last year but then it seems the Pakistani government downplayed it.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Jaanbaz said:


> We won't know the full extent of this policy in East Turkistan


Error 404 location not found.

Don't you understand that the Uighurs are catching hell precisely because of this "East Turkistan" sh*t? Every time I see the terrorists that managed to scurry out waving their silly blue flag, I'm reassured that China has taken the right path. They want an "East *Turk*istan"? They can set one up in *Turk*ey. Erdogan loves them so I'm sure he won't mind. They can be neighbours with Kurdistan.


UKBengali said:


> Exactly right.
> 
> To their credit some Pakistanis are openly criticising China on this. Majority are still keeping quiet as they think it will harm their relationship with China, which is not true as the Chinese cannot replace Pakistan with anyone else. Chinese will just have to take the Pakistani criticism and carry on as normal.
> 
> Even a senior Pakistani official criticised China in the last year but then it seems the Pakistani government downplayed it.


If you know China will just ignore this criticism without changing its policies one iota, why do you voice it? Is it like a fart you just have to let out?

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## Realtalk108

UKBengali said:


> Dude, please stop digging yourself into an even bigger hole. It is embarrassing to see.
> 
> 
> 8 AIP diesel subs are being sold by China to Pakistan and also 4 modernised Type-054A derivatives are also going to join PN soon.
> 
> PLAAN will in due course base one of their CBGs in Gwadar. Coupled with the expanding PN, Gwadar will have some serious firepower to stop anyone, IN or USN from trying to blockade it.
> 
> 
> USN will have to blockade the Malacca straight, Myanmar and also Pakistan in order to cut off China's sea lanes of communication - this may stretch their resources to breaking point.



Well duh. Literally in my first comment I said US can't blockade China. 

This whole discussion is about a hypothetical scenario where US successfully blockades Malacca strait (because that's when CPEC can be an alternative). Get it? Hypothetical. If US can do _that_, it can certainly blockade Pakistan.


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## UKBengali

ZeEa5KPul said:


> If you know China will just ignore this criticism without changing its policies one iota, why do you voice it? Is it like a fart you just have to let out?




Like I say China will take it as a champ and not be able retaliate against Pakistan as you need them as much as they need you

Shows how few options China has in the world lol


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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> Like I say China will take it as a champ and not be able retaliate against Pakistan as you need them as much as they need you
> 
> Shows how few options China has in the world lol


Let's put this in perspective: the West had centuries - beginning with Spanish and Portuguese colonialism, to the British empire, and on to American hegemony - to put together the world system we sadly live with. China was afflicted with dysfunctional politics during this time (much like America is today), add to that that Japan managed to industrialize first, with catastrophic consequences.

Despite this adversity, China managed to put the pieces of itself back together and go on an economic tear the likes of which the world has never seen and will never again see. China is just in the beginning phases of putting together its world system and ending the West's aberrant dominance.

I don't know how you feel about Pakistan, but I can imagine you feel some sympathy toward it given that you used to be part of it and that it's a Muslim state. Do you understand how viciously you insulted it when you said "how few options China has in the world lol" to refer to it? China wants to make something of it, to uplift it from the muck and filth it's embedded in and turn it into a prosperous and powerful partner. 

You should feel privileged that China is extending a hand of friendship to Pakistan and to you - you have the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of the greatest enterprise in history: ending the era of the West and establishing a new _tianxia_. Instead of embracing this historic opportunity, you want to whine about Uighurs, a people you didn't even know existed before the West commanded you to care? I should hope that Amnesty International is paying you if you're going to be making an issue out of this.

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## Char

denel said:


> HU angang is the cuplrit whose ultra nationalist agenda has caused this massive scale oppression against Uighurs and TIbet. This bastard needs to be taken to ICC to be held for trial just like what happened in Rwanda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.kcl.ac.uk/events/the-de-politicization-of-the-uyghurs-in-china-2
> 
> http://www.chinafile.com/library/nyrb-china-archive/reeducating-xinjiangs-muslims
> 
> Shame on muslims for keeping quiet on this. Raise awareness and if this professor comes to visit please highlight and protest where required. He needs to be brought to trial for crimes against humanity.



but China is not Yugoslavia, so stay in your dream.


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## denel

Char said:


> but China is not Yugoslavia, so stay in your dream.


indeed go suck Mao's lemon and remember the thousands of innocent students you massacred in Tiannemin square; or convinently you choose to erase. Definitely a loyal party troll on this forum.

To all my moslem friends - remember the Uighur moslems and say a prayer for their safe passage through this trying time at the hands of the communists. This too will pass as do trials people face for their religious beliefs.

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## Char

denel said:


> indeed go suck Mao's lemon and remember the thousands of innocent students you massacred in Tiannemin square; or convinently you choose to erase. Definitely a loyal party troll on this forum.
> 
> To all my moslem friends - remember the Uighur moslems and say a prayer for their safe passage through this trying time at the hands of the communists. This too will pass as do trials people face for their religious beliefs.



everything in the way of industrialization and modernization of China would be removed. don't talk about human rights and democracy, idont care.

not to mention these simple students, Chinese culture was nearly abondent, because Chinese culture was too great and become a burden, but after industrialization we are restoring Chinese culture.


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## rott

Chhatrapati said:


> This must be fake news. Western propaganda, because Iron brother doesn't seem to flinch. Or money trumps everything?
> 
> 
> 
> I always find communism in the sense of a religion. Not many agree with me tho.
> 
> Prophet ? Check ( Karl Marx ). Another prophet like Friedrich Engels later Stalin, Lenin coming to ranks. Sorry, Mao didn't make it to the list, if he was smart enough to write his own ideas. Still did a 'crusade' Meh!
> 
> Holy book(s)? Check (Das Kapital, Communist manifesto.)
> 
> Bloody history? Check (It has killed millions of people in the name of Communism. Mao even Put Lenin to shame.)
> 
> Mummies of important leaders/'prophet'? Check (Lenin was mummified and kept in a glass house, so is Mao Zedong).


If you think about it, everything by itself is a religion. Just being a good human being is also a religion.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> Let's put this in perspective: the West had centuries - beginning with Spanish and Portuguese colonialism, to the British empire, and on to American hegemony - to put together the world system we sadly live with. China was afflicted with dysfunctional politics during this time (much like America is today), add to that that Japan managed to industrialize first, with catastrophic consequences.
> 
> Despite this adversity, China managed to put the pieces of itself back together and go on an economic tear the likes of which the world has never seen and will never again see. China is just in the beginning phases of putting together its world system and ending the West's aberrant dominance.
> 
> I don't know how you feel about Pakistan, but I can imagine you feel some sympathy toward it given that you used to be part of it and that it's a Muslim state. Do you understand how viciously you insulted it when you said "how few options China has in the world lol" to refer to it? China wants to make something of it, to uplift it from the muck and filth it's embedded in and turn it into a prosperous and powerful partner.
> 
> You should feel privileged that China is extending a hand of friendship to Pakistan and to you - you have the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of the greatest enterprise in history: ending the era of the West and establishing a new _tianxia_. Instead of embracing this historic opportunity, you want to whine about Uighurs, a people you didn't even know existed before the West commanded you to care? I should hope that Amnesty International is paying you if you're going to be making an issue out of this.


They will never understand. Leave it, bro.

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## royalharris

Rational islam can codevelop with society, for example hui muslim and Most of the uygur muslim, the ecnomy develop very fast in qinghai and xinjiang

Radical islam is the cancer of the world, you can check the several poor countries ,it is full of violence

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## Chhatrapati

rott said:


> If you think about it, everything by itself is a religion. Just being a good human being is also a religion.


No, not everything is a religion. Atheism is not a religion. So is Agnostic beliefs.


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## rott

Chhatrapati said:


> No, not everything is a religion. Atheism is not a religion. So is Agnostic beliefs.


Okay, I give this to you. You know religion better.


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## Chhatrapati

rott said:


> Okay, I give this to you. You know religion better.


Insider information bruh...

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## Dungeness

Numerous said:


> May Allah grant sabr and ease to the uighurs and free them from being oppressed.
> 
> It's ramadan now, make sure to make dua against all our oppressors - from india, to myanmar buddhists to these chinese communists etc...



If prayer works, you would have been a superpower by now.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Comparing Kashmir to Xinjiang situation is not only inaccurate, it's a desperate attempt of people to divert from the severity of what is going on in Xinjiang.

The people of Kashmir can freely practice their religion and do whatever they want. Nobody is trying to get them to leave their religion or not practice it. Yes, the Indian army is there and that can sometimes lead to human rights abuses. It always happens when army is stationed in civilian areas. Now, why is the Indian army there ? In 1989, the Kashmiris, with the support of Afghan Jihad returneed from Pakistan, became violent and started killing and massacring the minority Hindu Kashmiris. Hundreds of Kashmiri Hindus were massacred and the remaining ran away from the valley, leaving their homes and properties behind to save their lives and are living as refugees in their own country now. Their separatist movement became violent. And so, the Indian army stepped in Kashmir Valley in 1989. There was no Indian army in the streets of Kashmir before that. And why does the army continue to be there ? Because the Kashmiri movement is still violent and aggressive and jihadis are still constantly flowing in from Pakistan from the likes of Jaish e Mohammad and Lashkar e Taiba. Despite all this, India is not trying to drive them away from their religion. We are only trying to ensure that they stay peaceful. But admittedly, human rights violations have happened, which is always true in any part of the world when army is stationed in a civilian area.

Compare this to Xinjiang. Are the Ughurs violent ? No. Have they attempted to massacre the minority Han Chinese population living there ? No. Is there an ultra violent separatist movement there with constant flow of Jihadis from neighbouring countries ? No. Yet, they are doing what they are doing. something that is not happening in Kashmir. i don't need to leaborate on what that is.

All in all, situation of Uighurs is worse than Kashmiris and despite there not being any justifcation for it.

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## denel

nick_indian said:


> Comparing Kashmir to Xinjiang situation is not only inaccurate, it's a desperate attempt of people to divert from the severity of what is going on in Xinjiang.
> 
> The people of Kashmir can freely practice their religion and do whatever they want. Nobody is trying to get them to leave their religion or not practice it. Yes, the Indian army is there and that can sometimes lead to human rights abuses. It always happens when army is stationed in civilian areas. Now, why is the Indian army there ? In 1989, the Kashmiris, with the support of Afghan Jihad returneed from Pakistan, became violent and started killing and massacring the minority Hindu Kashmiris. Hundreds of Kashmiri Hindus were massacred and the remaining ran away from the valley, leaving their homes and properties behind to save their lives and are living as refugees in their own country now. Their separatist movement became violent. And so, the Indian army stepped in Kashmir Valley in 1989. There was no Indian army in the streets of Kashmir before that. And why does the army continue to be there ? Because the Kashmiri movement is still violent and aggressive and jihadis are still constantly flowing in from Pakistan from the likes of Jaish e Mohammad and Lashkar e Taiba. Despite all this, India is not trying to drive them away from their religion. We are only trying to ensure that they stay peaceful. But admittedly, human rights violations have happened, which is always true in any part of the world when army is stationed in a civilian area.
> 
> Compare this to Xinjiang. Are the Ughurs violent ? No. Have they attempted to massacre the minority Han Chinese population living there ? No. Is there an ultra violent separatist movement there with constant flow of Jihadis from neighbouring countries ? No. Yet, they are doing what they are doing. something that is not happening in Kashmir. i don't need to leaborate on what that is.
> 
> All in all, situation of Uighurs is worse than Kashmiris and despite there not being any justifcation for it.


Well put, regretfully the communists never learn - people faith prevails still at the end. Hu Angang justification for uniformism etc is gone beyond. Think of this way, you will never find a chinese on this forum that is not sanction by the party or is a chinese party paid troll to keep in check what is highlighted - when they could massacre thousands of students - try to locate any of the students from the videos from tiannenmin - you wont find any; they have all disappeared - either killed or buried in some unknown camp. To the extent Zhao Ziyang's name also has been erased. The new commie party is out of control and trying to re-live a quasi cultural revolution where Mao and Commies are gods like in North Korea. 

Anyway, coming from a faith that has been prosecuted and genocide enacted on; to see these wretched commies hit minorities who cannot fight back is a cause I take up. Everyone has a right to practise their faith and live in peace. What is next, will they put up gas chambers - people faith and will can never be exterminated so will these bastards go one level up or are they trying to emulate their protege Kim next door.

It is Eid tomorrow in my country and it is amazing to see where moslems are just less than 5% yet halal is catered for all over the place including prayer rooms at all major petrol stations, airports, hospitals across the country. In diversity lies strength unlike the Commies who want to create donkeys of same colour.

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## fisher1

When it comes to Chinese authorities' eagerness to manage perceptions of the way they treat Muslim citizens in the Xinjiang region, it would be hard to beat a recent musical performance staged for an audience of foreign journalists.

On the fifth day of a government-sponsored media tour last month, at a detention facility in the far-western city of Kashgar, two dozen Uighur detainees belted out the American children's song "If You're Happy and You Know It, Clap Your Hands."

The group of adults, some as old as 40 and dressed in colorful ethnic Uighur costumes, stumbled over the English lyrics. From the front of a classroom, their teacher guided them to stand up, sing and — at the song's cue — clap their hands in unison: an attempt to show the visiting group of skeptical reporters that, despite the circumstances, they were living up to the lyrics.

It was a tough sell. The detainees have been locked away for months — for being, as authorities put it, "infected with extremist thoughts." The U.S. and United Nations estimate that China has detained hundreds of thousands of Uighurs and other Muslims in internment camps in the vast, predominantly Muslim region of Xinjiang.

Some who have been released and managed to flee China have described these places to NPR as concentration camps where authorities brainwash detainees with Communist Party doctrine. Some claim they were tortured.


China's government calls these places "vocational training centers." Last month's media tour at two of the camps displayed a choreographed attempt to change a narrative that is spinning out of Beijing's control.




*THE DISAPPEARED: CHINA'S DRACONIAN IMPRISONMENT OF A PEOPLE*
*'They Ordered Me To Get An Abortion': A Chinese Woman's Ordeal In Xinjiang*

Mejit Mahmut, the ethnic Uighur principal of what authorities call the Kashgar Vocational Education and Training Center, insists that the 1,500 students under his watch, most of whom are Uighur, are treated well and are free to return home to their families on weekends.

"People here have been infected by extremist thoughts," says Mahmut. "They broke the relevant laws, but their crimes are so minor that they are exempted from criminal punishment. The government wants to save and educate them, converting them here at this center."

Mahmut says detainees spend their days taking classes in Mandarin (which many of them don't speak) and Chinese law (to understand the laws they allegedly broke) and learning vocational skills that can lead them into careers as tour guides, online retailers or electricians. Mahmut says the Kashgar government "has proof" that it has been able to prevent terrorist activities through this type of training.

When pressed, he's not able to offer evidence of this. Instead, he explains how students ended up at his facility.

"Some believed extremist ideas like killing nonbelievers would result in them going to heaven, so they participated in some activities that undermined social stability," he says. "Others overgeneralized the concept of halal," he says — what is permissible under Islamic law.

"They considered many things un-halal," he continues. "They believed government-issued IDs, money and daily appliances were from nonbelievers and therefore un-halal. This is a major problem, and they were reported to authorities by their neighbors, and then police will talk to them to tell them what they've done wrong."

Mahmut says students stay in the facility he oversees for an average of eight months and can leave after doing well on exams. But none of the several detainees the government made available to NPR said it was clear when they could return home.

Ayiguyi Abdel-Rahman, a 30-year-old mother of two, says she has been detained for 10 months. Taking a break from her Chinese law class to talk with NPR, she says she doesn't know when she'll get out.

When asked why she had been detained, she responds, 
*"I have serious extremist thoughts" — echoing nearly every detainee who spoke with NPR. "I made my children participate in religious activities from a young age. And I didn't let them sing and dance in a cultural entertainment activity. I interfered with their personal freedom."*

Abdel-Rahman, dressed in a white T-shirt and a pink hoodie, says she also sent welfare checks back to the government because she didn't think they were halal. She didn't allow her children to watch TV cartoons for the same reason. "I'm very grateful for the [Communist] Party and the government for giving me such a good opportunity to study," she says. "I've learned what I should and what I shouldn't do, what is legal and what is illegal, what is religion and what is extremism."

Abdel-Rahman's 25-year-old classmate Yusu Pujiang has been in the facility for eight months and had to quit his job as a salesman to live there. One reason for his detention:

*"I forced my wife to stay home and not work," he tells NPR. "I didn't think the money women earned was halal. My neighbors reported me to the authorities."
*
Pujiang says police also looked through his phone and saw that he had viewed online videos showing Osama bin Laden training al-Qaida members.






Mejit Mahmut is the principal of the Kashgar Vocational Education and Training Center, a facility with 1,500 residents, most of them Uighur. "People here have been infected by extremist thoughts," he says. "The government wants to save and educate them, converting them here at this center."

Rob Schmitz/NPR

"I didn't know I was breaking the law," says Pujiang. "I made a big mistake. But the party and the government thought I was a victim, so they've given me a great opportunity to correct my behavior."

Prior to their incarceration, none of the detainees NPR interviewed had understood that what they had done was against the law, and they didn't understand that their thoughts qualified as extremist according to Chinese authorities' definition.

"When the students arrive here, they don't know what extremist thoughts are," says Hei Lili, a teacher at another detention facility in the city of Atushi. "They learn that here in this facility. Most people in southern Xinjiang don't understand Chinese. They don't know much about China's laws either. They're uneducated and unskilled."

This raises the question that many human rights advocates are asking: Why is it fair to detain Muslims for acting on what the state considers "extremist thoughts" if they don't know what that means?

This question is posed to Du Bin, division chief of the Information Office of China's Office of the State Council, the only Chinese official on the media tour who's willing to speak on the record. His response: "If we only seek justice through due process, as in only punishing terrorists after they fired shots and hurt victims, let me ask you, 'Is seeking justice in procedure still meaningful?' If we take the appropriate actions and stop the attacker before he makes his move, we save the lives of the attacker, his family, and at the same time, we ensure the safety of victims."

Du's justification for interning Muslim minorities in Xinjiang for "extremist thoughts" seems reminiscent of the plotline for the 2002 sci-fi film _Minority Report,_ and he makes it clear to the foreign journalists on the tour that his opinions are his own, not those of the government agency he works for.

"Take the Sri Lanka and 9/11 attacks as examples," Du continues. "What's the point of ensuring justice after due process, when all the victims have been killed? That's why I'm emphasizing the preventative measures the Chinese government takes. It's proven that this measure is the key to fight terrorism."

When asked to clarify if he's saying the Chinese government is detaining those who are about to commit crimes, Du hedges. He reiterates that if people are showing signs of breaking the law, local authorities will decide whether they need to be detained under the region's so-called "de-extremification" laws.

Du says detaining and educating them and providing job skills are all necessary to help the Xinjiang region achieve a national goal of eradicating poverty by 2020.

When pressed to provide the exact number of people inside Xinjiang's network of detention facilities, Du explains why he won't.

"If the Chinese government gives you an exact number that can endure the test of time after conducting a strict census, other countries would say we detained too many people in 'concentration camps,' " he says. "If we give you a small number, you would say the Chinese government is lying, right? We're in a dilemma."

No matter the numbers, the situation for Muslims inside the detention camps is grave, says Serikjan Bilash, director of the Kazakh human rights group Atajurt. The group has collected more than 1,000 testimonies from families of those who have been detained. Many of them have fled across China's northwestern border to Kazakhstan.

"These so-called study centers are prisons," Bilash told NPR last October in Almaty, Kazakhstan's biggest city. "They're hell. It's we in Kazakhstan who are disclosing what is happening in Xinjiang. We aren't afraid to speak up because Kazakhstan is more democratic than China."

Bilash may have spoken too soon. In March, just five months after NPR interviewed him, Kazakh authorities detained him on suspicion of "inciting ethnic hatred." Police conducted a raid on Atajurt's Almaty office. Bilash remains under house arrest. Kazakhstan's government is an ally of Beijing and has positioned itself as "the buckle" in China's trillion-dollar Belt and Road Initiative, its global trade and investment campaign.

Back in Kashgar, as authorities finish up their tour of the Vocational Education and Training Center, they offer journalists a look inside a student dormitory. The detainees say they sleep six to a room in comfortable accommodations. But in one corner of the complex, there is writing etched into a wall. It looks like someone has tried to paint over it, but the message is still legible. The first line: "This room is excellent." Then, underneath: "Bear with it, my heart."


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## fisher1

My favorite part is this

"They considered many things un-halal," he continues. "*They believed government-issued IDs, money and daily appliances were from nonbelievers and therefore un-halal*. This is a major problem, and they were reported to authorities by their neighbors, and then police will talk to them to tell them what they've done wrong."



Gotta love the communist bull$%^. I have yet to find anyone, a single soul on this earth who will say money is "unhalal" aka haram.


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## obj 705A

come on are you serious? we already had a thread about the Uyghurs you could have just posted this "news" in the same thread, honestly at this point you arent really contributing anything to the forum you are just trolling.


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## TheTruth

This fake news by Jewboys, whites and their retarded Jew-loving sycophants again.

Aren't you ashamed? I guess DeadSparrow's real grandfather was a New York Jew.


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## fisher1

obj 705A said:


> come on are you serious? we already had a thread about the Uyghurs you could have just posted this "news" in the same thread, honestly at this point you arent really contributing anything to the forum you are just trolling.



I don't understand your objection. This is a Chinese subforum, Xinjiang is in China. Nobody has a problem with new threads that are positive about China. Why shouldn't there be different threads for Uighurs written by different sources?

It sounds to me like you want to silence the criticism and just shove it in one big thread which will get less visits when people see the number of replies? Hmm

I wish i could get some news about if Uighurs are allowed to celebrate Eid since it's Eid today but this is the next best thing.


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## Globenim

Government forces radicalized adults teaching and propagating discrimination into civil deradicalization and education programs.* 
*
Radical anti-Chinese U.S. regime mouthpieces: Blame Chinese government for "discrimination" of people who "didnt even know they where doing something wrong".

Everyone hating China: Pretends to not see the layers of irony.


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## waz

All threads related to Xinjiang should go in here please. This has been asked by Chinese members due to sheer number of threads that are being put up. It's also been agreed to by non-Chinese members who have alternate points. 
If there is abuse you will be banned, as I did with two posters today. 
If you decide to ignore this thread, you will also be banned. 
It's time for some order here. 

Thank you and I'm sorry if I sounded harsh in my post.

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## waz

I shall begin the process of adding various threads in an hour's time.


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## haidian

The OP's long writing can be summarized in one short phrase: Down With China!


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## fisher1

waz said:


> All threads related to Xinjiang should go in here please. This has been asked by Chinese members due to sheer number of threads that are being put up. It's also been agreed to by non-Chinese members who have alternate points.
> If there is abuse you will be banned, as I did with two posters today.
> If you decide to ignore this thread, you will also be banned.
> It's time for some order here.
> 
> Thank you and I'm sorry if I sounded harsh in my post.



This is not good. Not surprising the Chinese wanted it like this.

Nobody ever bothers visiting topics with huge numbers of replies then there's the issue of individual posts getting less exposure in Google.

Sad to see the Chinese aren't even proud of their own actions and didn't want this forum to be "stinkied up" with news about Uighurs. That's how much they hate them.

RIP poor Uighurs  Even this forum isn't free of political bullcrap, the administration couldn't piss off Chinese, could they?


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## TaiShang

*Villagers in Xinjiang celebrate Eid al-Fitr and Dragon Boat Festival*

By Liu Xin in Beijing and Xiang Hong in Kashi Source:Global Times Published: 2019/6/5







Officials from the women's association of Xinjiang stationed in Qianjin village in Nazerbage town in Kashi, Northwest China's Xinjiang Province visit villagers who live in poverty on Eid al-Fitr on Wednesday. They brought supplies to these families. Photo: Xiang Hong





Tuohtigul Litbu, a resident of Qianjin village, makes a traditional snack in on Wednesday and invites her paired relatives to try it. Photo: Xiang Hong/GT






Villagers and officials stationed in the village pose for a photo. Photo: Xiang Hong

Residents from different ethnic groups in Qianjin village, Kashi, Northwest China's Xinjiang
Province 
celebrated Eid al-Fitr on Wednesday and the upcoming Dragon Boat Festival.

More than 100 villagers and officials in Qianjin village in Naizerbage town gathered in the yard of Tursunpasha Musha's house to watch an art performance and talk about the traditions of celebrating Eid al-Fitr and the Dragon Boat Festival.

Tursunpasha was very hospitable and insisted that the guests taste the snack he prepared for Eid al-Fitr. "We Uyghurs usually celebrate Eid al-Fitr with friends and relatives. We eat some traditional food, talk to each other, sing and dance together," he said.

Kulaxi Abudula said that *"the Dragon Boat Festival, which is meant to commemorate the patriotic poet Qu Yuan in the Warring States Period (475BC-221BC), has a history of more than 2,000 years in China… the festival also bears people's wishes for a stable and prosperous country and happy life."*

This year's Dragon Boat Festival will fall on Friday. 

Officials stationed in the village also sent supplies to help residents in poverty better celebrate the festivals.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1153267.shtml

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## Rafi

Nice.

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## masterchief_mirza

Local language, customs and traditions all proudly on display. Yet some would have us believe Uighur customs are being eradicated.

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## TaiShang

masterchief_mirza said:


> Local language, customs and traditions all proudly on display. Yet some would have us believe Uighur customs are being eradicated.



China, being a socialist republic, is more lenient toward local customs. Nationalist and capitalist republics are less tolerant. Take the US eradication of native American culture and identity for example. 

They put them in reservations. They forced them to cut long hair. They forced ideological education on them. Plus, they inflicted them with drug and gamble addictions to entire erase their historical identity at the DNA level. In their movies, they constantly depicted Native Americans as savages and brutes, creating a global image of them. Now nobody cares about their plight.

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## Myth_buster_1

TaiShang said:


> China, being a socialist republic, is more lenient toward local customs. Nationalist and capitalist republics are less tolerant. Take the US eradication of native American culture and identity for example.
> 
> They put them in reservations. They forced them to cut long hair. They forced ideological education on them. Plus, they inflicted them with drug and gamble addictions to entire erase their historical identity at the DNA level. In their movies, they constantly depicted Native Americans as savages and brutes, creating a global image of them. Now nobody cares about their plight.



so true.

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## Jf Thunder

local culture should be protected 
well done China

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## Surya 1

Even on the day of Eid, I do not see any traditional picture of Muslim traditional wears. CPC must have put a lots of restriction on how to celebrate Eid like they do other celebration of Muslims including Roja, Names and beard size and shape etc.

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## Numerous

Me and my friends, in fact my whole neighbourhood, like to come together on Eid to wave chinese flags for pictures too. It's a tradition! Totally not staged.

Lol come on guys, these Chinese aren't going to show you what they don't want you to see. Ya'll complain about western propaganda but some of you will drink up chinese propaganda like soup.

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## beijingwalker

China should stop caring too much about minorities and do away with minority preferential treatment policies, 93.7% of the Chinese population is Han Chinese, take good care of Han Chinese and forget about minorities.


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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang establishes airline company to boost low-altitude tourism*

Source:Xinhua Published: 2019/5/31 8:32:24

An airline company has been established in Kuqa County, Xinjiang Province, to meet the increasing demands of low-altitude, short-distance travelling among tourists. 

According to the newly-established air company, the already launched flights from Kuqa to nearby cities of Aksu and Karamay are all operated by small aircraft with a capacity of eight to 12 passengers. 

Wang Qiong, marketing director of the company, said the flight altitude was around 3,000 meters, which enables passengers to view the unique landscapes, rivers and highways of Xinjiang from the air. 

Wang said the company planned to launch a total 10 low-altitude tourism routes to popular destinations including Turpan and Nalat Grassland Resort.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1152537.shtml

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## fisher1

Same site, different article. See the stark difference.

Foreign Muslims in Beijing celebrate Eid al-Fitr with locals
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1153198.shtml






Mosque, caps, beards. 

Reality is this (don't tell me Straits times a Singapore based site is also doing Western propaganda) 

Wrecked mosques, police watch: A tense Ramadan in Xinjiang

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/wrecked-mosques-police-watch-a-tense-ramadan-in-xinjiang


HOTAN, CHINA (AFP) - The corner where Heyitkah Mosque in China's restive Xinjiang region once hummed with life is now a concrete parking lot where all traces of the tall, domed building have been erased. While Muslims around the world celebrated the end of Ramadan with prayers and festivities this week, the recent destruction of dozens of mosques in Xinjiang highlights the increasing pressure Uighurs and other ethnic minorities face in the heavily policed region. Behind the lot in the city of Hotan, the slogan "Educate the people for the party" is emblazoned in red on the wall of a primary school where students must scan their faces upon entering the razor-wired gates.

The mosque "was beautiful," recalled a vendor at a nearby bazaar. "There were a lot of people there." Satellite images reviewed by AFP and visual analysis non-profit Earthrise Alliance show that 36 mosques and religious sites have been torn down or had their domes and corner spires removed since 2017. In the mosques that are open, worshippers go through metal detectors while surveillance cameras monitor them inside. "The situation here is very strict, it takes a toll on my heart," said one Uighur, who requested anonymity for fear of reprisals. "I don't go any more," he added, referring to mosques. "I'm scared."





A carpark where the Heyitkah Mosque once stood. PHOTO: AFP

In the ancient Silk Road city of Kashgar, no longer does the sunrise prayer call echo throughout the city - a ritual the manager of the city's central mosque once proudly shared with tourists. On Wednesday (June 5), locals celebrating Eid al-Fitr quietly filed into the entrance of state-approved Idkah Mosque - one of the largest in China - as police and officials fenced off the wide square surrounding the building and plainclothes men monitored every person's actions. It was another low-key Ramadan for Muslims in Xinjiang, with restaurants busy serving food to customers throughout the day, when practising Muslims fast. In Hotan on Friday - a holy day for believers - the only mosque in the city was empty after sundown, an important prayer session when Muslim families typically break their daily fast.

@waz feel good silencing the truth and allowing China's propaganda? I don't know how you can sleep.


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## third eye

The Pak stance of Muslims in China seems quite like the lyrics of an old Bollywood song..


"Hai isi mein pyar ki aabroo ,Woh jafa kare main wafa karoon

Mujhe gham bhi unka azeez hai, Ke unhi ki di hui cheez"

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## Surya 1

beijingwalker said:


> China should stop caring too much about minorities and do away with minority preferential treatment policies, 93.7% of the Chinese population is Han Chinese, take good care of Han Chinese and forget about minorities.



The way China treats its minority, they will certainly China to forget them and leave them alone. Now stop building re-education camp for them.


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## beijingwalker

Surya 1 said:


> China to forget them and leave them alone. Now stop building re-education camp for them.


Who do you think you are? We'll do whatever we deem suiting for our development, what're you gonna do about it?

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## Pangu

This Chubby bro has lots of video of Xinjiang & Uighur food & lifestyle. It's in Mandarin but the visuals tells a thousand words.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDZE5eumU67OFI-taEBXj2w/videos

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## JSCh

*Muslims across China mark Eid al-Fitr*
Source: Xinhua| 2019-06-05 19:39:13|Editor: mingmei

URUMQI/YINCHUAN, June 5 (Xinhua) -- Millions of Muslims from various ethnic groups including Uygur, Hui, Kazak and Kirghiz in China are joining communities across the world to celebrate Eid al-Fitr, the end of the holy month of Ramadan, Wednesday.

In northwest China's Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, home to over 2.5 million Muslims, 76-year-old Ma Weilin joined local people for early morning prayers at around 8 a.m. in a mosque in Yinchuan, the regional capital.

"The festive atmosphere is everywhere as people's lives are getting better," he said.

Eid al-Fitr is a statutory festival in Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region where people have a day off. Highway toll fees are also waived for private vehicles during the holiday.

Sawutjan Abulim is the imam of Liudaowan Mosque in Urumqi. He said the mosque has been renovated with facilities such as tap water, heating, air conditioning and internet, thanks to government funding.

"With a better environment, Muslims can conduct religious activities more comfortably," the imam said.

People gathered for Meshrep and Shaman dance on the square in front of the Id Kah Mosque in Kashgar after morning prayers, attracting tourists to stop and watch.

In the ancient city of Kashgar, a popular tourist destination not far from the mosque, Shrametiguli was busy hosting customers in her folk restaurant.

She said Eid al-Fitr was usually the peak tourist season of the year. She and her employees -- dancers and waiters -- have spent the festival in the restaurant for several years.

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## Pakhtoon yum

Wonder if they were allowed to fast.


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## waz

@DeadSparrow 

Make another remark like that I’ll ban you off the forum. You’ve been given plenty of leeway but you just don’t listen.
You have made a stupid remark about the founder of Pakistan, have no desire to participate in any Pakistan related news (self admission), don’t reply to people on threads you create, and just want to spam the entire forum with your own threads. Two words ‘not happening’.
Now seeing as you are a new comer I’ll explain it once more, no one is silencing anything, you can put up what you want here as will Chinese posters.
If you don’t like it you know where the door is.
@Dubious @WAJsal @The Eagle @WebMaster @Irfan Baloch

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## criticalerror

waz said:


> @DeadSparrow
> 
> Make another remark like that I’ll ban you off the forum. You’ve been given plenty of leeway but you just don’t listen.
> You have made a stupid remark about the founder of Pakistan, have no desire to participate in any Pakistan related news (self admission), don’t reply to people on threads you create, and just want to spam the entire forum with your own threads. Two words ‘not happening’.
> Now seeing as you are a new comer I’ll explain it once more, no one is silencing anything, you can put up what you want here as will Chinese posters.
> If you don’t like it you know where the door is.
> @Dubious @WAJsal @The Eagle @WebMaster @Irfan Baloch



Going by my discussions with him , he looks like a false flagger. I called him out for this, so he disappeared from our discussions. Seems like that fools nightmare chap has another account.

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## waz

criticalerror said:


> Going by my discussions with him , he looks like a false flagger. I called him out for this, so he disappeared from our discussions. Seems like that fools nightmare chap has another account.



The signs all point to things are not all what they seem here bro. Anyway I gave the benefit of the doubt, but now it’s time to be more firm.

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## criticalerror

waz said:


> The signs all point to things are not all what they seem here bro. Anyway I gave the benefit of the doubt, but now it’s time be more firm.



Yeah of course. Just a pattern I recognized with his posts. So i might be wrong.


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## jamahir

I would have watched if it was a chubby girl.


----------



## fisher1

waz said:


> @DeadSparrow
> 
> Make another remark like that I’ll ban you off the forum. You’ve been given plenty of leeway but you just don’t listen.
> You have made a stupid remark about the founder of Pakistan, have no desire to participate in any Pakistan related news (self admission), don’t reply to people on threads you create, and just want to spam the entire forum with your own threads. Two words ‘not happening’.
> Now seeing as you are a new comer I’ll explain it once more, no one is silencing anything, you can put up what you want here as will Chinese posters.
> If you don’t like it you know where the door is.
> @Dubious @WAJsal @The Eagle @WebMaster @Irfan Baloch



Message received loud and clear. I know where the door is. 

I understand the fear of Chinese is stronger than the desire to help the Muslims and counter the obvious propaganda. Drown the forums with positive about China and restrict the Uighurs to one thread, the title "Muslims can't celebrate Eid in Xinjiang" is more eye catching than "all Uighur related issues here" isn't it?. Maybe you've fooled yourself but you're not fooling anyone else.

Villainizing my character would help your conscience (hey i am a false flagger and enemy of Muslims) but it doesn't absolve you of your duties as a Muslim or your responsibility as being a powerful authority here to do justice.

Anyway, as they say a picture is worth a thousand words. 







I stood with Uighurs, the oppressed, the Muslims. Hope it feels good for you to side with the oppressors and Mushrikeen. 

May Allah help the Uighurs overcome the oppressors, Ameen.


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## Kai Liu

Even the little county towns are so developed and life is so modern:

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## waz

DeadSparrow said:


> Message received loud and clear. I know where the door is.
> 
> I understand the fear of Chinese is stronger than the desire to help the Muslims and counter the obvious propaganda. Drown the forums with positive about China and restrict the Uighurs to one thread, the title "Muslims can't celebrate Eid in Xinjiang" is more eye catching than "all Uighur related issues here" isn't it?. Maybe you've fooled yourself but you're not fooling anyone else.
> 
> Villainizing my character would help your conscience (hey i am a false flagger and enemy of Muslims) but it doesn't absolve you of your duties as a Muslim or your responsibility as being a powerful authority here to do justice.
> 
> Anyway, as they say a picture is worth a thousand words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stood with Uighurs, the oppressed, the Muslims. Hope it feels good for you to side with the oppressors and Mushrikeen.
> 
> May Allah help the Uighurs overcome the oppressors, Ameen.



Say what you want and i’ve seen it a hundred times, when folks like you are not able to behave to the norms that are required of you, you then resort to using religious blackmail to get your way.
The irony of your post is that you accuse me of trying to fool myself, when it’s yourself playing the pious protector but yet coming out with utter nonsense elsewhere. Your support for the PTM says it all. Something you’ve been warned about by another moderator.
As for the thread there’s no need to repeat myself, you’ve overlooked the fact that even the positive news has been merged into this thread.
It’s you who needs to understand.l, but I won’t hold my breath.
I did warn you about the ban but you just want to push it, so let it be.

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## Yaseen1

china is one of the most beautiful country of the world and has very good landscape and natural beauty

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## Pangu

Yummy!


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## beijingwalker

Kashgar

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Urumqi, Capital of China Xinjiang province:Real-time daytime human activities map ( Today June 7, 2019) with China Baidu map

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang ensured safe drinking water for the poorest families living in the desert, safe drinking water projects covers every one and no one is left behind, now every family living in the desert has access to running water which is safe for drinking.
Before people living in the desert had to get water from some muddy puddles which always had dead animals in them, people developed many health problems by drinking that putrid water. Now every household is connected to the running water systems which provide safe clean drinking water, people now developed healthy habits of brushing teeth and take daily showers, the health standard in the desert region has been greatly improved.

图尔荪托乎提老人对家乡饮水味道的记忆，印证了新疆农村群众饮水质量的提升过程。据和田市农村供水饮水管理站副主任阿不都卡地尔·阿不都拉介绍，为了让群众告别缺水、喝涝坝水的历史，1995年和田地区农村组织打井提取地下水，但地下水含氟量、硬度、碱度等多项指标均超过饮用水标准，只解决了群众对用水量的需求。2017年起，当地开始实施农村饮水安全巩固提升工程，中央和地方仅在和田市阿克恰勒乡就投资1400多万元，建了自来水厂，采用15道工序处理苦咸水，截至目前，全乡5500多人喝上了放心安全的自来水。

　　这是天山南北越来越多贫困农牧村庄饮水质量安全得到保障的缩影。记者从新疆维吾尔自治区水利厅了解到，2012年-2018年底，新疆农村饮水安全巩固提升工程累计解决了300多万贫困人口的饮水安全问题。今明两年内，新疆还将建设运行120项饮水安全工程，帮助剩余36.1万贫困人口用上放心安全的饮用水，实现不漏一户、不落一人。

http://www.xinhuanet.com/local/2019-05/06/c_1124458334.htm

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## beijingwalker

Village officials have to work at the site to make sure that they can get things done on time or before the deadline, otherwise they may be punished or demoted.

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## haidian

Nothing is more important than water!

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## Taimur Khurram

That doesn't excuse the re-education camps.


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## beijingwalker

Taimur Khurram said:


> That doesn't excuse the re-education camps.


This thread is about China's poverty alleviation programs in the world second biggest desert, if you have other issues other than that, go and open a new thread.

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## Black_cats

*China enforces dress code in Xinjiang by cutting up women's clothing*
*Uyghur women are being confronted on the streets by communist cadres, and having their dresses and shirts sheared off for being too long*

By Duncan DeAeth, Taiwan News, Staff Writer
2018/07/16 19:59

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/ne...CU0Aw33zXUSBQZfvBU1d4IPhPXqM1OD1eaybOJYaRlCcU







(Images from Twitter)

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) – Photographs out of Xinjiang, China over the past few days have documented how police and Communist cadres in the region are enforcing dress codes imposed on Uyghur women.

China claims that the threat of Islamic extremism in the central Asia region, also known as East Turkestan, has made authoritarian measures necessary, such as prohibiting Uyghur women from wearing long dresses. Photos shared on twitter over the past weekend show cadres cutting the clothes of Uyghur women on the street to enforce the dress code.

In what must be a humiliating experience for the women, the dresses, which in many cases should properly be called long shirts, are either sheared off at the bottom, or cut partially, to ruin the clothing and compel the women to avoid wearing similar items in the future.

Chinese authorities have already prohibited the more traditional body coverings that are a hallmark of fundamentalist Islam. So in an effort to dress modestly, many Uyghur women have opted for longer articles of clothing to cover their back side and upper thighs.





(Images from Twitter)

However, apparently, such clothing choices are seen as inappropriate and an attempt to skirt the already highly authoritarian dress codes for women.

To most Westerners, the idea that any authority figure would deem a woman’s clothing as too long, is strikingly peculiar. The idea that clothing would then be forcibly shortened to adhere to the rules of a government’s dress code is stranger still.

Since the Communist party aims to completely eradicate any possibility that women could potentially hide weapons or explosives in their clothing, they have now resorted to the deplorable act of shearing off women’s clothing, so that their legs and back side will remain visible at all times, as seen in the photos shared by the DOAM Twitter account.






It seems obvious that the Chinese government fears Uyghurs will continue to push the boundaries of state policy. Therefore the local cadres have opted for these very disrespectful displays to ensure compliance.

Last month, a video of a Uyghur woman being forced to marry a Chinese manwent viral, displaying another despicable tactic of "gene washing" that the Chinese government is using to forcibly integrate the Uyghur ethnic group into “socialism with Chinese characteristics.”

The human rights situation in Xinjiang appears to be rapidly deteriorating, with the Chinese government using every means necessary to punish resistance, creating what has been called an “open air prison” and what may be the most surveilled region on Earth.





(Images from Twitter)


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## Goenitz

seems like fake news... see no muslim... and law enforcement.....

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## Black_cats

Goenitz said:


> seems like fake news... see no muslim... and law enforcement.....



Reputed news organization of Taiwan published it. For fake news look into the communist party released news!!

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## Chhatrapati

I have a feeling that, this thread will be closed soon.

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## Nilu Pule

RAW sponsored fake news!

China is the best place for Muslims.

CIA/RAW/MOSSAD trying to drive a wedge between Pakistan and China.

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## 055_destroyer

They don't even look Uighur. Do Uighur even dress like them? Fake news...Probably taken from some other places and blend into about China. OP looks desperate

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## Feng Leng

Wait a minute... I thought Uighurs were all in concentration camps getting their organs harvested. Why is there anybody walking on the streets wearing dresses or beards?

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Black_cats said:


> *China enforces dress code in Xinjiang by cutting up women's clothing*
> *Uyghur women are being confronted on the streets by communist cadres, and having their dresses and shirts sheared off for being too long*
> 
> By Duncan DeAeth, Taiwan News, Staff Writer
> 2018/07/16 19:59
> 
> https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/ne...CU0Aw33zXUSBQZfvBU1d4IPhPXqM1OD1eaybOJYaRlCcU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Images from Twitter)
> 
> TAIPEI (Taiwan News) – Photographs out of Xinjiang, China over the past few days have documented how police and Communist cadres in the region are enforcing dress codes imposed on Uyghur women.
> 
> China claims that the threat of Islamic extremism in the central Asia region, also known as East Turkestan, has made authoritarian measures necessary, such as prohibiting Uyghur women from wearing long dresses. Photos shared on twitter over the past weekend show cadres cutting the clothes of Uyghur women on the street to enforce the dress code.
> 
> In what must be a humiliating experience for the women, the dresses, which in many cases should properly be called long shirts, are either sheared off at the bottom, or cut partially, to ruin the clothing and compel the women to avoid wearing similar items in the future.
> 
> Chinese authorities have already prohibited the more traditional body coverings that are a hallmark of fundamentalist Islam. So in an effort to dress modestly, many Uyghur women have opted for longer articles of clothing to cover their back side and upper thighs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Images from Twitter)
> 
> However, apparently, such clothing choices are seen as inappropriate and an attempt to skirt the already highly authoritarian dress codes for women.
> 
> To most Westerners, the idea that any authority figure would deem a woman’s clothing as too long, is strikingly peculiar. The idea that clothing would then be forcibly shortened to adhere to the rules of a government’s dress code is stranger still.
> 
> Since the Communist party aims to completely eradicate any possibility that women could potentially hide weapons or explosives in their clothing, they have now resorted to the deplorable act of shearing off women’s clothing, so that their legs and back side will remain visible at all times, as seen in the photos shared by the DOAM Twitter account.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems obvious that the Chinese government fears Uyghurs will continue to push the boundaries of state policy. Therefore the local cadres have opted for these very disrespectful displays to ensure compliance.
> 
> Last month, a video of a Uyghur woman being forced to marry a Chinese manwent viral, displaying another despicable tactic of "gene washing" that the Chinese government is using to forcibly integrate the Uyghur ethnic group into “socialism with Chinese characteristics.”
> 
> The human rights situation in Xinjiang appears to be rapidly deteriorating, with the Chinese government using every means necessary to punish resistance, creating what has been called an “open air prison” and what may be the most surveilled region on Earth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Images from Twitter)


what's is the **** East turkis


Black_cats said:


> Reputed news organization of Taiwan published it. For fake news look into the communist party released news!!


This is fake news, we actually are raping Uyghur girls day and night!


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Taimur Khurram said:


> That doesn't excuse the re-education camps.


sure, only Xinjiang independance can solve all the problems of humanity!
otherwise,Whatever China central gov and Xinjiang local gov are doing are wrong any way.

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## usman012

A


Nilu Pule said:


> RAW sponsored fake news!
> 
> China is the best place for Muslims.
> 
> CIA/RAW/MOSSAD trying to drive a wedge between Pakistan and China.


At least better than Radical Hindu state .


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

This is fake news, we actually are raping Uyghur girls day and night!

Why not, we are killing Uyghur men and raping Uyghur girs day and night!


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## beijingwalker

In some central and south Asian countries, even city folks can't take running water for granted, but China had all desert people connected to the water treatment system which guarrantees safe drinking water, if some people don't even have basic facilities like running water and electricity but still talk about human rights, that would be a big big joke.

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## Yaseen1

i think it is done in taiwan by u.s and their cia as taiwan people also look similar to chinese ,u.s want to ignite Muslims in china and cause unrest.Taiwan govt is puppet of u.s

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## Pangu

Try harder. Two aunties cutting clothes off of some women somewhere = China enforce dress code in Xinjiang?

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## eldamar

Black_cats said:


> *China enforces dress code in Xinjiang by cutting up women's clothing*
> *Uyghur women are being confronted on the streets by communist cadres, and having their dresses and shirts sheared off for being too long*
> 
> By Duncan DeAeth, Taiwan News, Staff Writer
> 2018/07/16 19:59
> 
> https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/ne...CU0Aw33zXUSBQZfvBU1d4IPhPXqM1OD1eaybOJYaRlCcU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Images from Twitter)
> 
> TAIPEI (Taiwan News) – Photographs out of Xinjiang, China over the past few days have documented how police and Communist cadres in the region are enforcing dress codes imposed on Uyghur women.
> 
> China claims that the threat of Islamic extremism in the central Asia region, also known as East Turkestan, has made authoritarian measures necessary, such as prohibiting Uyghur women from wearing long dresses. Photos shared on twitter over the past weekend show cadres cutting the clothes of Uyghur women on the street to enforce the dress code.
> 
> In what must be a humiliating experience for the women, the dresses, which in many cases should properly be called long shirts, are either sheared off at the bottom, or cut partially, to ruin the clothing and compel the women to avoid wearing similar items in the future.
> 
> Chinese authorities have already prohibited the more traditional body coverings that are a hallmark of fundamentalist Islam. So in an effort to dress modestly, many Uyghur women have opted for longer articles of clothing to cover their back side and upper thighs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Images from Twitter)
> 
> However, apparently, such clothing choices are seen as inappropriate and an attempt to skirt the already highly authoritarian dress codes for women.
> 
> To most Westerners, the idea that any authority figure would deem a woman’s clothing as too long, is strikingly peculiar. The idea that clothing would then be forcibly shortened to adhere to the rules of a government’s dress code is stranger still.
> 
> Since the Communist party aims to completely eradicate any possibility that women could potentially hide weapons or explosives in their clothing, they have now resorted to the deplorable act of shearing off women’s clothing, so that their legs and back side will remain visible at all times, as seen in the photos shared by the DOAM Twitter account.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems obvious that the Chinese government fears Uyghurs will continue to push the boundaries of state policy. Therefore the local cadres have opted for these very disrespectful displays to ensure compliance.
> 
> Last month, a video of a Uyghur woman being forced to marry a Chinese manwent viral, displaying another despicable tactic of "gene washing" that the Chinese government is using to forcibly integrate the Uyghur ethnic group into “socialism with Chinese characteristics.”
> 
> The human rights situation in Xinjiang appears to be rapidly deteriorating, with the Chinese government using every means necessary to punish resistance, creating what has been called an “open air prison” and what may be the most surveilled region on Earth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Images from Twitter)



u might as well paste articles from the Epochtimes too.

thx



Chhatrapati said:


> I have a feeling that, this thread will be closed soon.




i can write an article on bold, controversial topics- and than paste some random pictures- too

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## 大汉奸柳传志

why not? young ladies should be encouraged to show some curve

women's empowerment,boosting confidence and all that jazz


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## HannibalBarca

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> why not? young ladies should be encouraged to show some curve
> 
> women's empowerment,boosting confidence and all that jazz


Another will answer... That indeed He may wish to see your Sister curves or Mother curves... Why not that Wifey curves or even your Daughter curves...

Will be nice if each others encourages each others Female relatives to take down their overprotecting tops... Wanna share?

I assume I don't need permission now... if I touch your Mother/Sister/Wife/Daughter of yours in the optic to ''Encourage'' them to show some curve...

@beijingwalker Remember when we spoke about what were the Good parts of your culture you lost... that is one... Respect for your family... Respect and Honor.

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## beijingwalker

古力娜扎 Gulnazar ，a famous Uighur actress, a household name in China who is well known for her preference wearing revealing clothes , no one cuts her clothes.

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## 大汉奸柳传志

HannibalBarca said:


> Another will answer... That indeed He may wish to see your Sister curves or Mother curves... Why not that Wifey curves or even your Daughter curves...
> 
> Will be nice if each others encourages each others Female relatives to take down their overprotecting tops... Wanna share?



You live in the west.. so go figure. China is just as modern and open minded.

Do you even bother to raise that question to your french neighbor

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## HannibalBarca

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> You live in the west.. so go figure. China is just as modern and open minded.
> 
> Do you even bother to raise that question to your french neighbor


No we don't do it in the West... We have still some Respect left...


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## 大汉奸柳传志

HannibalBarca said:


> No we don't do it in the West... We have still some Respect left...


Ok. but try keeping your medieval mindset to yourself.


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## Imran Khan

look good thanks china


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## eldamar

HannibalBarca said:


> No we don't do it in the West... We have still some Respect left...


imposing your idea onto others that NOT being fully clad is being disrespectful to oneself.

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## HannibalBarca

eldarlmari said:


> imposing your idea onto others that NOT being fully clad is being disrespectful to oneself.




it's rare of you to speak against China... What happened?
You are right... China shouldn't IMPOSE her idea of clothing to Uighurs... it's DISRESPECTFUL... as you said.


----------



## HannibalBarca

eldarlmari said:


> nope. im refering to u
> 
> u implied that not being clad in clothing that is enough to obscure a woman's curves is being disrespectful to herself.
> 
> 
> that's your concept. Is this photo enough to *make you jizz *just by you being able to see those pale, soft skin? that's right your primitive mindset has led u to become a pathetic , narrow-minded,sex-starved creature with lack of self-control, associated with a low IQ.
> 
> I can confidently say she's probably gonna face a very high risk of being raped in Africa, the Middle east or India- dressed like that.
> But in East asia, ghetto-free areas of Europe, America??



You have a problem with words...
Go ahead please Quote the exact sentence of mine where I said that I ''implied that not being clad in clothing that is enough to obscure a woman's curves is being disrespectful to herself.''

If you can't, I will wait for a Formal apology with the opening of '' Please MiLord. Excuse my childish behavior... For what I have sinned''

And remember... it's not the first time you did it... and neither the first time you couldn't back your word... Seems doing again and again the same mistake in hope to get a different result is the motto of some... but as you see that get you nowhere...


----------



## eldamar

HannibalBarca said:


> You have a problem with words...
> Go ahead please Quote the exact sentence of mine where I said that I ''implied that not being clad in clothing that is enough to obscure a woman's curves is being disrespectful to herself.''
> 
> If you can't, I will wait for a Formal apology with the opening of '' Please MiLord. Excuse my childish behavior... For what I have sinned''



he said:



大汉奸柳传志 said:


> why not? young ladies should be encouraged to show some curve
> 
> women's empowerment,boosting confidence and all that jazz



you replied:



HannibalBarca said:


> Another will answer... That indeed He may wish to see your Sister curves or Mother curves... Why not that Wifey curves or even your Daughter curves...
> 
> Will be nice if each others encourages each others Female relatives to take down their overprotecting tops... Wanna share?
> 
> I assume I don't need permission now... if I touch your Mother/Sister/Wife/Daughter of yours in the optic to ''Encourage'' them to show some curve...



= that's what u implied- a woman not being fully clad is being disrespectful to herself.

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## HannibalBarca

eldarlmari said:


> he said:
> 
> 
> 
> you replied:
> 
> 
> 
> = that's what u implied- a woman not being fully clad is being disrespectful to herself.


Re read it... word by word... Go ahead I'm waiting.
You can even call a friend for help...


----------



## eldamar

HannibalBarca said:


> Re read it... word by word... Go ahead I'm waiting.
> You can even call a friend for help...


yo kid, y play around with words??

your replies were implying what i said.

a woman not being fully-clad is being disrespectaful to herself.

worse still, u're imposing this idea onto others, others that dont share your beliefs

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## Peaceful Civilian

Good going. Well done.


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## HannibalBarca

eldarlmari said:


> yo kid, y play around with words??
> 
> your replies were implying what i said.
> 
> a woman not being fully-clad is being disrespectaful to herself.
> 
> worse still, u're imposing this idea onto others, others that dont share your beliefs


you are implying what i didn't say...
So back it up... or Apologize ... and if you can't you can do as always... by running away.


----------



## eldamar

HannibalBarca said:


> you are implying what i didn't say...
> So back it up... or Apologize ... and if you can't you can do as always... by running away.



lol kiddie. that's what u implied.

your behavior is womanly.

hence, YOU should be fully-clad. go wear a burqa

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## Nilgiri

@waz @Dubious


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## Jlaw

There's nothing wrong with low cut dresses. You closet perverts who quote religious texts should just come out and say you like seeing scantily clad women.

Stop pretending to be a prude


----------



## nang2

Black_cats said:


> Reputed news organization of Taiwan published it. For fake news look into the communist party released news!!


There is nothing reputable about when Taiwan news organization reporting anything from mainland China.

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## HannibalBarca

eldarlmari said:


> so i guess @HannibalBarca is gonna jerk himself off to this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jsut by being able to see some *mere* cleavage is enough to drive him crazy.


When you can't back your words after accusing me of something I didn't do... you act like that...
At least ppl can see what level of intelligence you may hold in your brain...

@Dubious Not the first neither the last, but well... life goes on.


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## eldamar

HannibalBarca said:


> When you can't back your words after accusing me of something I didn't do... you act like that...
> At least ppl can see what level of intelligence you may hold in your brain...
> 
> @Dubious Not the first neither the last, but well... life goes on.


i quoted your replies to @大汉奸柳传志 post. That's what u implied- and is imposing your idea of a woman's dressing onto others who dont share your personal beliefs.

i felt the urge to correct u because u outrageously gave the impression that a woman who is not fully-clad is being disrespectful to herself.

in that case, many women around the world outside your community would be disrespectful to themselves- just for showing some skin.

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## HannibalBarca

eldarlmari said:


> i quoted your replies to @大汉奸柳传志 post. That's what u implied- and is imposing your idea of a woman's dressing onto others who dont share your personal beliefs.


Mods will judge...
Not my fault if you can't understand proper English... instead of jumping into your own biased fantasmatic perception...

As I said... it's not the first time you did it... You already behaved the same way WITH me in at least 2 other occasions and in those 2 times... it was the same thing... you couldn't back it up and end up falling into childish low level attacks...
You have a problem with ''understanding words'' not my fault boy.


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## eldamar

HannibalBarca said:


> Mods will judge...
> Not my fault if you can't understand proper English... instead of jumping into your own biased fantasmatic perception...
> 
> As I said... it's not the first time you do it... You already behaved the same way WITH me in at least 2 other occasions and in those 2 times... it was the same thing...
> You have a proper with ''understanding words'' not my fault boy.


cant refute me ? ya go run crying to mods

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## HannibalBarca

eldarlmari said:


> cant refute me ? ya go run crying to mods


Yeah sorry... Trolls aren't my forte.
Mods are more qualified to handle such type of ppl...


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## eldamar

HannibalBarca said:


> Yeah sorry... Trolls aren't my forte.


= cheapshot.

that's right.

dont impose your primitive opinion how how a woman should dress- onto others:



HannibalBarca said:


> Another will answer... That indeed He may wish to see your Sister curves or Mother curves... Why not that Wifey curves or even your Daughter curves...
> 
> Will be nice if each others encourages each others Female relatives to take down their overprotecting tops... Wanna share?
> 
> I assume I don't need permission now... if I touch your Mother/Sister/Wife/Daughter of yours in the optic to ''Encourage'' them to show some curve...
> 
> @beijingwalker Remember when we spoke about what were the Good parts of your culture you lost... that is one... Respect for your family... Respect and Honor.





大汉奸柳传志 said:


> why not? young ladies should be encouraged to show some curve
> 
> women's empowerment,boosting confidence and all that jazz





大汉奸柳传志 said:


> Ok. but try keeping your medieval mindset to yourself.

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## Chhatrapati

eldarlmari said:


> i can write an article on bold, controversial topics- and than paste some random pictures- too


Yes, but you don't know if it's true or not. You can only assume.


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang allocated 7.31 billon Yuan ( 1.1 bliion USD ) to aid poor families in 2018.*

2018年新疆安排73.1亿元救助困难群众
发布时间：2019-01-24 文章来源：自治区政府网


记者从1月22日召开的自治区民政工作会议上获悉：去年，我区共安排困难群众救助资金73．1亿元，同比增长15％，增幅创历年新高。

据介绍，去年，全区民政系统认真贯彻落实自治区党委和政府各项决策部署，抓住重点、突破难点，精准施策、精准发力，全力保障和改善民生，困难群众生活水准得到提高。

去年，自治区稳步提高城乡救助标准，实现低保制度与扶贫开发政策有效衔接。低保标准比上年提高8％，农村低保达到3456元/年；城市低保达到428元/月。

我区社会救助体系日趋完善，全年实施临时救助48万人次、冬春生活救助275万人次、医疗救助230万人次。落实城乡医疗救助资金19．9亿元，比上年增加12．4亿元，为历年来最多。

去年我区将南疆四地州22个深度贫困县建档立卡贫困户中的32．17万兜底脱贫对象纳入农村低保保障范围，指导各地精准兜底、精准救助，制定脱贫攻坚社会救助兜底保障措施，确定了兜底保障一年渐退期，明确了重病患者和重度残疾人特殊低保政策、护边员家庭和外出务工家庭老年人优待政策。

自治区民政厅领导表示，今年，自治区民政部门将聚焦总目标，认真贯彻落实自治区党委兜底保障脱贫一批的重大部署，扎实推进2019年民政领域脱贫攻坚重点工作。同时，严格按照“兜底网、织密网、建机制”要求，不断健全完善社会救助体系，为我区城乡困难群众织牢织密民生保障网，让全区247万城乡低保对象基本生活得到有力保障。

http://www.xinjiang.gov.cn/2019/01/23/154056.html


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## Mamadouso

Is it true that Uighur are not allowed to travel abroad?


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## beijingwalker

* Xinjiang healthcare and medicare coverage reaches 100% in 2019*

*贫困人口基本医疗保险大病保险医疗救助将实现全覆盖*
时间：2019-04-29 12:49:31来源：天山网

提示:您已进入视窗区3,本区域含有1句内容，按下Tab键浏览信息
记者从4月26日召开的自治区医疗保障工作会议上了解到，2019年新疆紧紧围绕“两不愁三保障”，集中力量抓好医疗保障精准扶贫工作，确保实现贫困人口基本医疗保险、大病保险、医疗救助覆盖率达到100%

http://www.xinjiang.gov.cn/2019/04/29/155484.html

In other central Asian regions, you get seriously sick, you die, in Xinjiang, the government takes care of you, the health medicare covers most ot the cost and Xinjiang has another policy, patients receive treatment first, pay later, this unique Xinjiang policy is not enjoyed in other parts of China.

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## Char

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1137085862401978370
my favorite Uyghur wearing.


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## Dubious

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> why not? *young ladies should be encouraged to show some curve*
> 
> women's empowerment,boosting confidence and all that jazz


Oh so confidence comes from curves? Talk abt sexualizing women?!

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## 大汉奸柳传志

Dubious said:


> Oh so confidence comes from curves? Talk abt sexualizing women?!


works for men too

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## Dubious

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> works for men too


Keep your nonesense within China please! We are not such a society who equates curves to brain of any gender!

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## Indian Libertarian

Explain how Palestinians are major victims of terror...


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## 大汉奸柳传志

Dubious said:


> Keep your nonesense within China please! We are not such a society who equates curves to brain of any gender!


Having some sex appeal can make people more confident, men or women. I'm surprise this is news to you.


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## Dubious

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> Having some sex appeal can make people more confident, men or women. I'm surprise this is news to you.


I am surprised that you are so shallow!

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## masterchief_mirza

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> Having some sex appeal can make people more confident, men or women. I'm surprise this is news to you.


No, I think being educated and prosperous makes men and women more confident. Sex appeal belongs in the bedroom.


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## 大汉奸柳传志

Dubious said:


> I am surprised that you are so shallow!


 if adult topics makes you uncomfortable then I'll stop talking

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## Dubious

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> if adult topics makes you uncomfortable then I'll stop talking


Yes please shut it forever!


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## Yankee-stani

Having a thread like this is like a thread on Kurds on Turkey sigh this fourm is like that


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## Islamic faith&Secularism

The Illegal Chinese de-Islamization and identification now target the Muslim graveyard in East Turkestan.

Also, Some 36 mosques in East Turkestan are destroyed, one of them is seen in the third picture. 


*''*






Nottingham Üniversitesinden Uygur tarihçi Rian Thum'un kamuoyu ile paylaştığı bilgilere göre, Çin, son olarak Doğu Türkistan'ın Hoten kentindeki merkez mezarlığı ortadan kaldırdı.

Sosyal medya hesaplarında bazı Müslüman alimlerin türbelerinin de bulunduğu mezarlığın önceki ve yıkıldıktan sonraki halinin görüntülerini paylaşan Uygurlar, buranın Çin'in ortadan kaldırdığı ilk mezarlık olmadığı iletisini paylaştı.

_(Mezarlığın önceki hali)_





_*(Mezarlığın şimdiki hali)*_










*''*
The source: https://www.timeturk.com/cin-dogu-turkistan-da-musluman-mezarliklarini-yok-etti/haber-1099513




*''*
*Chinese govt has destroyed graveyard of Uighur community: Historian *

The chinese government has destroyed a graveyard which belonged to Uighur community in Khotan .. claimed historian Rian Thum on Wednesday.
"The chinese authorities has now destroyed the valuable Uyghur graveyard in Khotan. It was additionally the site of numerous sacred shrines," tweeted Thum, along with two pictures taken from satellite tv for pc: First displaying a land packed with shape and the second one of barren land.











*''*
The source: https://www.business-standard.com/a...ighur-community-historian-119061300091_1.html


Here is more evidences:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138556480804786176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138556749236060162

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138558285076938752

Here is how Chinese trolls try to immorally cover the situation:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138819812719833088

I am pretty sure some of those Chinese trolls will do the same here.

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## Pakhtoon yum

@beijingwalker explain this with your countess propaganda vids

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## Islamic faith&Secularism

The destruction of Mosques in East Turkestan.

''
Mosques in China's Xinjiang region once hummed with life but the recent destruction of dozens of them highlights the increasing pressure Uighurs and other ethnic minorities face in the heavily policed region.''


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## Mr.NiceGuy

World must do somethings against this genocidal country. 
How long are we gonna watch this and do nothing about it?

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## Wilhelm II

I


Mr.NiceGuy said:


> World must do somethings against this genocidal country.
> How long are we gonna watch this and do nothing about it?


If that was in 20 years ago maybe but we are talking about a dark hell super power with massive economy influence in world no one can do even a little move against them just words. First world must wake up and target China economy sectors and then work to make Chinese people angry of government

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## Feng Leng

It's time to export our re-education camps to all countries for use against rebellious Islamist minority groups. Strike at the Islamists wherever they are. Your caves. Your camels. Your deserts. If you are not with us, you are against us!

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## Indos

Feng Leng said:


> It's time to export our re-education camps to all countries for use against rebellious Islamist minority groups. Strike at the Islamists wherever they are. Your caves. Your camels. Your deserts. If you are not with us, you are against us!



Islamist will likely become stronger in Muslim country as Muslim every where are getting more pious day by day. It has already ruled Turkey and Iran. it will rule more Muslim countries in the future, inshaAllah. I even predict that Islamist President will rule Indonesia in 2024, there is one Islamist young leader that is popular now and can become President after 2024. As you know Indonesia election 2019 is also become more Islamic as revealed that all candidate want to appear more Islam and more pious than their rival.

Sudan and Algeria will likely be ruled by Islamist as democratization enter the countries. Egypt in my prediction will once again become democratic after 2024 or 2030 and ruled by Islamist Muslim Brotherhood. Pakistan is likely once again ruled by an Islamist despite the fact that Pakistan is already an Islamic country. When many Islamist rule big Muslim countries it is the sign that Muslim countries will be united once more. It is nationalist ruler who make Muslim countries cannot get united.

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## atan651

Good job!


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## beijingwalker

*High school graduation in Xinjiang, forever friends.*

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## beijingwalker

Just like every Chinese high school in China, all students speak perfect Mandarin Chinese. What puzzles me is why they are so happy? Aren't their parents supposed to be all locked up or in concentration camps?

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## beijingwalker

Most law enforcement officers in Xinjiang are ethnic Uighurs, they are all armed with the best weapons by the Chinese government, here is the quesiton, if China really treats Uighur that bad, how come not even one Uighur officer or solider, not even a single one of them, turned their guns to the Chinese government? Isn't that weird if China were really the devil painted by the west?

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## waz

Bump


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## Feng Leng

*China says reached 'broad consensus' with U.N. after Xinjiang visit*

BEIJING (Reuters) - China and the United Nations have reached a “broad consensus” about counter-terror work, China’s Foreign Ministry said on Sunday after a controversial visit by a senior U.N. official to the restive far western Chinese region of Xinjiang this week.

The United States and other western countries objected to a visit by the U.N. counterterrorism chief to Xinjiang, where U.N. experts say some one million ethnic Uighurs and other Muslims are held in detention centers.

Diplomats said that along with the United States several other countries, including Britain, complained about the trip of Vladimir Voronkov, a veteran Russian diplomat who heads the U.N. Counterterrorism Office.

U.S. Deputy Secretary of State John Sullivan spoke with U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres on Friday “to convey deep concerns” about Voronkov’s trip because “Beijing continues to paint its repressive campaign against Uighurs and other Muslims as legitimate counterterrorism efforts when it is not”.

In a brief statement, China’s Foreign Ministry said that Voronkov had visited Beijing and Xinjiang from June 13-15, meeting senior diplomats including Vice Foreign Minister Le Yucheng.

The two sides “had a deep exchange of views on the international counter-terrorism situation and counter-terrorism cooperation between China and the United Nations, and reached a broad consensus”, the ministry said, without giving details.

China and the world need to stand together to fight terror, and China supports the work of the United Nations Counter-Terrorism Office, the statement added.

China has been condemned internationally for setting up the detention complexes, which it describes as “education training centers” helping to stamp out extremism and give people new skills.

Voronkov visited Xinjiang before U.N. human rights chief Michelle Bachelet, who has repeatedly pushed China to grant the United Nations access to investigate reports of disappearances and arbitrary detentions, particularly of Muslims in Xinjiang.

Guterres raised the plight of Muslims in China’s Xinjiang region with the Chinese government’s top diplomat, State Councillor Wang Yi, during a visit to Beijing in April.

Chinese President Xi Jinping has been in the Central Asian state of Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan over the past few days, where he has spoken of the importance of fighting extremism and terror. 

*As part of Belt and Road, we will help countries built re-education camps for militant Islamists. Let one hundred flowers bloom!*

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## Mohrenn

Can somebody find a more nuanced, effective and smart solution to the terrorist problem than China's one ? China has the Xinjiang région just next to major terrorist centers like Afghanistan and Northern Pakistan, and that's on top of the separatists, and that's on top of the fact that the CIA would love to exploit that to destabilize China. And yet the province is stable and developing rapidly. China uses carrots and sticks, whereas the US tried it with only military actions and it failed horribly everytime they tried. China's solution is not only much more civilized and human but also much more effective.

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## Numerous

" *As part of Belt and Road, we will help countries built re-education camps for militant Islamists. Let one hundred flowers bloom! *"

Remember that the chinese even throw people in these camps for wanting to wear niqab. Will we be sending Imran Khan's wife to a camp?

These aren't camps for militants. These are camps for normal Muslims. The soviets waged a war against Islam in central asia, the chinese communists are simply taking on the role.

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## Numerous

beijingwalker said:


> Most law enforcement officers in Xinjiang are ethnic Uighurs, they are all armed with the best weapons by the Chinese government, here is the quesiton, if China really treats Uighur that bad, how come not even one Uighur officer or solider, not even a single one of them, turned their guns to the Chinese government? Isn't that weird if China were really the devil painted by the west?



The British used 100,000s of native troops throughout it's history to help keep control of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh etc...

And we all know how cruel the British were.


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## Pakhtoon yum

Feng Leng said:


> It's time to export our re-education camps to all countries for use against rebellious Islamist minority groups. Strike at the Islamists wherever they are. Your caves. Your camels. Your deserts. If you are not with us, you are against us!


Your a racist islamophobic scum



Indos said:


> Islamist will likely become stronger in Muslim country as Muslim every where are getting more pious day by day. It has already ruled Turkey and Iran. it will rule more Muslim countries in the future, inshaAllah. I even predict that Islamist President will rule Indonesia in 2024, there is one Islamist young leader that is popular now and can become President after 2024. As you know Indonesia election 2019 is also become more Islamic as revealed that all candidate want to appear more Islam and more pious than their rival.
> 
> Sudan and Algeria will likely be ruled by Islamist as democratization enter the countries. Egypt in my prediction will once again become democratic after 2024 or 2030 and ruled by Islamist Muslim Brotherhood. Pakistan is likely once again ruled by an Islamist despite the fact that Pakistan is already an Islamic country. When many Islamist rule big Muslim countries it is the sign that Muslim countries will be united once more. It is nationalist ruler who make Muslim countries cannot get united.


It's a reaction to actions like this of China

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## B.K.N

This propaganda by Turkish members is the reason why PDF is banned in China

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## Pakhtoon yum

Brass Knuckles said:


> This propaganda by Turkish members is the reason why PDF is banned in China


Read some of the Chinese responses you will understand what kind of islamophobic sum they truly are.

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## B.K.N

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Read some of the Chinese responses you will understand what kind of islamophobic sum they truly are.



They are just internet warriors common Chinese are just poor peasants now with relatively higher living standards

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## Itachi

Feng Leng said:


> As part of Belt and Road, we will help countries built re-education camps for militant Islamists. Let one hundred flowers bloom!



Chinese definition of a "Islamist" is vastly different than the original.....anyone that refuses to eat pork, not fast and not take off the Hijab is a "Islamist terrorist" according to China. 

But the good thing is that Chinese PRC paid propagandists like this dude Feng Leng now *admit* _that there are concentration camps in China_, labeled as "reeducation camps".

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## Feng Leng

Not only the US, Russia and China but now even the UN hates Islamism. Your days of hiding behind moderate Muslims are over. Get ready to be re-educated!

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## BaybarsHan

red shit


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## Itachi

Mohrenn said:


> Can somebody find a more nuanced, effective and smart solution to the terrorist problem than China's one ?



There simply is no terrorist problem in China. Idiots and trolls like you believe in anything the Chinese govt. put forth.

It's a legitimate separatist movement based on ethical & righteous concern. You think the same China that had no problem killing it's citizens in Tiananmen square and other massacres in it's recent history has a problem killing it's Muslim minority?


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## ILC

I think China should release the data of how many Uighur's are kept. So many fake news spread like 1 milion or even 3 Milion.

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## Mamadouso

The stupid thing is while China obsesses over the Uighurs it is the Evangelical Church which is growing by the day in towns & cities across China.

There are rumoured to be over 1000 ‘House Churches’ in China. All this protest in Hong Kong you see? The Evangelicals are playing a big part behind it, they will never be loyal to Chinese state.

In 10 years you could have ‘Hong Kong’ style protests all over China. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...ds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html



Feng Leng said:


> It's time to export our re-education camps to all countries for use against rebellious Islamist minority groups. Strike at the Islamists wherever they are. Your caves. Your camels. Your deserts. If you are not with us, you are against us!

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## Dai Toruko

China's fate will be like U.S.S.R

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## 大汉奸柳传志

why is there a graveyard in the middle of a residential area..? loool



Indos said:


> I even predict that Islamist President will rule Indonesia in 2024


Sorry to hear that.. it didnt work out for Turkey, it surely won't work out for you

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## Timur

Brass Knuckles said:


> This propaganda by Turkish members is the reason why PDF is banned in China



Yeah and still some government trolls are here

They can't even say anything bad about their country no errors no critics nothing than trying to shift the mind of ppl.. What should they do risking their life that's the ugly truth

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## Pakhtoon yum

Brass Knuckles said:


> They are just internet warriors common Chinese are just poor peasants now with relatively higher living standards


And it shows in their ignorance



大汉奸柳传志 said:


> why is there a graveyard in the middle of a residential area..? loool
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear that.. it didnt work out for Turkey, it surely won't work out for you


Are you an idiot? Graveyards are older then any infrastructure around them. Use your head

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Feng Leng said:


> It's time to export our re-education camps to all countries for use against rebellious Islamist minority groups. Strike at the Islamists wherever they are. Your *caves*. Your *camels*. Your *deserts*. If you are not with us, you are against us!



Mods please take care of this poster. @Dubious @waz @Horus @WebMaster 

He is feeding into hate against China.

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## Dubious

Feng Leng said:


> It's time to export our re-education camps to all countries for use against rebellious Islamist minority groups. Strike at the Islamists wherever they are. Your caves. Your camels. Your deserts. If you are not with us, you are against us!


Interesting how misinformed you are...I thought Chinese knew their geography better than America or are you an exceptionally "special" case?

You have been going around abusing and BS ....But mind you, there is only so much ANYONE can tolerate...And stupidity is not something we need to!



大汉奸柳传志 said:


> why is there a graveyard in the middle of a residential area..? loool


Question should be which one came first?
IF The graveyard came 1st :- in that case the residential area should not be built on a land so sensitive to some! THAT kind of shows genocide when you disrespect another people! Chinese should know better than to disturb ancestral grave! Dont some of you pray to your ancestors? Imagine someone builds a residential area on your ancestral grave! Will you quietly weep in some corner or will you fight back?
The residential area came first : - Then China should have provided them with an area to bury their dead...Another sign towards genocide when you become insensitive to a people or decrease their basic rights such as land to be buried!

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## Bengal71

Indos said:


> Islamist will likely become stronger in Muslim country as Muslim every where are getting more pious day by day. It has already ruled Turkey and Iran. it will rule more Muslim countries in the future, inshaAllah. I even predict that Islamist President will rule Indonesia in 2024, there is one Islamist young leader that is popular now and can become President after 2024. As you know Indonesia election 2019 is also become more Islamic as revealed that all candidate want to appear more Islam and more pious than their rival.
> 
> Sudan and Algeria will likely be ruled by Islamist as democratization enter the countries. Egypt in my prediction will once again become democratic after 2024 or 2030 and ruled by Islamist Muslim Brotherhood. Pakistan is likely once again ruled by an Islamist despite the fact that Pakistan is already an Islamic country. When many Islamist rule big Muslim countries it is the sign that Muslim countries will be united once more. It is nationalist ruler who make Muslim countries cannot get united.



This is true. The only reason Muslim countries are not uniting is because of secular leaders all over the Islamic world. If Islamic parties come to power in a large number of Muslim countries, there will be great unity and that is what the western powers fear most.

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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> The British used 100,000s of native troops throughout it's history to help keep control of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh etc...
> 
> And we all know how cruel the British were.


But some of them did revolt, didn't they? How come not a single Uighur officer or soldier turned their guns against China?

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## Bengal71

Indos said:


> Islamist will likely become stronger in Muslim country as Muslim every where are getting more pious day by day. It has already ruled Turkey and Iran. it will rule more Muslim countries in the future, inshaAllah. I even predict that Islamist President will rule Indonesia in 2024, there is one Islamist young leader that is popular now and can become President after 2024. As you know Indonesia election 2019 is also become more Islamic as revealed that all candidate want to appear more Islam and more pious than their rival.
> 
> Sudan and Algeria will likely be ruled by Islamist as democratization enter the countries. Egypt in my prediction will once again become democratic after 2024 or 2030 and ruled by Islamist Muslim Brotherhood. Pakistan is likely once again ruled by an Islamist despite the fact that Pakistan is already an Islamic country. When many Islamist rule big Muslim countries it is the sign that Muslim countries will be united once more. It is nationalist ruler who make Muslim countries cannot get united.



Bro can you please give a summary of why Joko won again? And what is the status of Islamic parties and what their prospects are in future elections?


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## beijingwalker

Most law enforcement officers are ethnic Uighurs, they are armed with the best weapons by the government, if China really treats Uighurs that bad, how come not even one single Uighur soldier or officer turned their guns against China? Isn't that weird?

Why those Uighur young adults are so happy and full of dreams about their future? Shouldn't they be gloomy everyday cause based on the western media most of their parents are being locked up in concentration camps.

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## Bengal71

Dai Toruko said:


> China's fate will be like U.S.S.R



That's what it looks like. The Chinese corrected some mistakes of the Soviets but did not correct the other mistakes. It may come back to haunt them


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## Char

Islamic faith&Secularism said:


> The Illegal Chinese de-Islamization and identification now target the Muslim graveyard in East Turkestan.
> 
> Also, Some 36 mosques in East Turkestan are destroyed, one of them is seen in the third picture.
> 
> 
> *''*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nottingham Üniversitesinden Uygur tarihçi Rian Thum'un kamuoyu ile paylaştığı bilgilere göre, Çin, son olarak Doğu Türkistan'ın Hoten kentindeki merkez mezarlığı ortadan kaldırdı.
> 
> Sosyal medya hesaplarında bazı Müslüman alimlerin türbelerinin de bulunduğu mezarlığın önceki ve yıkıldıktan sonraki halinin görüntülerini paylaşan Uygurlar, buranın Çin'in ortadan kaldırdığı ilk mezarlık olmadığı iletisini paylaştı.
> 
> _(Mezarlığın önceki hali)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*(Mezarlığın şimdiki hali)*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *''*
> The source: https://www.timeturk.com/cin-dogu-turkistan-da-musluman-mezarliklarini-yok-etti/haber-1099513
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *''*
> *Chinese govt has destroyed graveyard of Uighur community: Historian *
> 
> The chinese government has destroyed a graveyard which belonged to Uighur community in Khotan .. claimed historian Rian Thum on Wednesday.
> "The chinese authorities has now destroyed the valuable Uyghur graveyard in Khotan. It was additionally the site of numerous sacred shrines," tweeted Thum, along with two pictures taken from satellite tv for pc: First displaying a land packed with shape and the second one of barren land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *''*
> The source: https://www.business-standard.com/a...ighur-community-historian-119061300091_1.html
> 
> 
> Here is more evidences:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138556480804786176
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138556749236060162
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138558285076938752
> 
> Here is how Chinese trolls try to immorally cover the situation:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138819812719833088
> 
> I am pretty sure some of those Chinese trolls will do the same here.



so what, do you know how many Buddhists tempe were destroyed in the history in Xinjiang?

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## Max

Char said:


> so what, do you know how many Buddhists tempe were destroyed in the history in Xinjiang?



leave Whataboutism, Talk about present.

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## beijingwalker

Char said:


> so what, do you know how many Buddhists tempe were destroyed in the history in Xinjiang?


Uighurs were Buddhists before the Islam domination, many historic sites, scriptures and old sculptures proved that.



Max said:


> leave Whataboutism, Talk about present.


Facts against you automatically become whataboutism.

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## Char

Max said:


> leave Whataboutism, Talk about present.



the present is global Islam is declining.

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## Max

beijingwalker said:


> Facts against you automatically become whataboutism.



No deflecting your state terrorism by saying other country or people also committed the same crime.. is called whataboutism. There was no fact against me.

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## beijingwalker

Max said:


> No deflecting your state terrorism by saying other country or people also committed the same crime.. is called whataboutism. There was no fact against me.


We don't think they are crimes, your claim that China kill their culture was based on the fact that the so called their culture was actually forced on or being adopted by them, so they are related, we don't call this natural phenomenon a crime, you did.

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## Indos

Bengal71 said:


> Bro can you please give a summary of why Joko won again? And what is the status of Islamic parties and what their prospects are in future elections?



Joko Widodo won 54 % of votes because of so many reasons. The main reason of his winning is that he is clean and popular. He is a major of Indonesian city before and become famous due to his ability to reform the bureaucrats. He become media darling and people start to like him. When he become Jakarta governor he also make so many reform, he is also assertive leader that solve many problem in Jakarta.

The second reason of his winning is because he is quite successful in his first term as President. People see his administration as clean, he can short cut many bureaucratic procedure. Many infrastructure project are started by him and people start to feel short of easiness and convenient with all of the infrastructure project that have been completed. I think it will be quite difficult to challenge any incumbent leader that deliver his promises.

The third reason is because he is somehow try to show that he is a religious and pious leader even though comes from a nationalist party (PDI-P). He pick his vice president from a Muslim leader coming from conservative organization. He would stop talking when he heard Adzan even though he is speaking in a big conference, he also show his mother and other sisters are covering his hair. After the campaign is over he went to Mecca to perform Umroh, a week before people cast their ballot. 

Many Islamist like me pick Joko Widodo because according to us he is a clean and progressive leader that can make Indonesia move forward while in the same time not showing that he is anti Islam. He is still better than Prabowo that use populism to win vote like increasing government subsidy to lower gasoline price and electric price while in the other hand increasing civil servant salary significantly. Picking Prabowo will be bad for Indonesian economy because he will burden government budget in order to get votes. Because of Jokowi rational and wise economic policy, many Islamist still vote for him.

Islamic parties won at least 30 percent of the vote in parliament.The figure looks bad if we compare it to AKP in Turkey. It is still in minority in parliament because Indonesian people tend to choose leader and not too fanatic in choosing party. Both candidates (Jokowi and Prabowo) comes from nationalist party, but Prabowo is supported by two Islamic parties and widely seen as grabbing an Islamist agenda. Prabowo wins in provinces that is well known to have population that practice Wahhabism and has strong Islamic view. Jokowi in other hand is supported by traditional Islam province. Islamic party can become huge in future if they can get popular leader who compete in presidential election. As for now, it has at least 3 potential leaders that can compete in 2024 election.

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## Char

Feng Leng said:


> It's time to export our re-education camps to all countries for use against rebellious Islamist minority groups. Strike at the Islamists wherever they are. Your caves. Your camels. Your deserts. If you are not with us, you are against us!



1. that's no of our business
2. 're-education camps' is what we learned from Muslim countries
3. it cost too much


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## beijingwalker

Char said:


> 1. that's no of our business
> 2. 're-education camps' is what we learned from Muslim countries
> 3. it cost too much


He was banned, several Chinese poster got banned recently defending Xinjiang, you and me could be the next.

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## Char

beijingwalker said:


> He was banned, several Chinese poster got banned recently defending Xinjiang, you and me could be the next.



He doesn't understand China is different with West.
actually, both West right wing and left wing are destroying Muslim countries.

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## Numerous

beijingwalker said:


> But some of them did revolt, didn't they? How come not a single Uighur officer or soldier turned their guns against China?



Maybe some of them have. Afterall you chinese are complaining of uighur "terrorists" all the time.



beijingwalker said:


> He was banned, several Chinese poster got banned recently defending Xinjiang, you and me could be the next.



Ah yes, poor Feng Leng, defending xinjiang by proposing camps for the rest of the Muslim world too...

Bechara...

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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> Maybe some of them have. Afterall you chinese are complaining of uighur "terrorists" all the time.
> .


Who? or I remembered, they claimed a Uighur musician was tortured to death and spreaded this information all across the internet, only found out he is alive and kicking the very next day.

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## 大汉奸柳传志

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Are you an idiot? Graveyards are older then any infrastructure around them. Use your head


that even makes less sense. who would want to live next to a graveryard? developers want to build houses that can be sold, business 101 for you silly.



Dubious said:


> Interesting how misinformed you are...I thought Chinese knew their geography better than America or are you an exceptionally "special" case?
> 
> You have been going around abusing and BS ....But mind you, there is only so much ANYONE can tolerate...And stupidity is not something we need to!
> 
> 
> Question should be which one came first?
> IF The graveyard came 1st :- in that case the residential area should not be built on a land so sensitive to some! THAT kind of shows genocide when you disrespect another people! Chinese should know better than to disturb ancestral grave! Dont some of you pray to your ancestors? Imagine someone builds a residential area on your ancestral grave! Will you quietly weep in some corner or will you fight back?
> The residential area came first : - Then China should have provided them with an area to bury their dead...Another sign towards genocide when you become insensitive to a people or decrease their basic rights such as land to be buried!


I honestly dont know why they made you a mod here..

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## Numerous

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> that even makes less sense. who would want to live next to a graveryard? developers want to build houses that can be sold, business 101 for you silly.



I don't know how Chinese society works but graveyards in cities is a common site in Muslim countries and also the west.

Have you been out of China and seen the wider world?



beijingwalker said:


> Who? or I remembered, they claimed a Uighur musician was tortured to death and spreaded this information all across the internet, only found out he is alive and kicking the very next day.



Has nothing to do with my post.

But well done, you only imprisoned him for so long that people thought he was dead, rather than murdered him.


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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> But well done, you only imprisoned him for so long that people thought he was dead, rather than murdered him.


That how rumor mongerers work, first they made a rumor, after being debunked, they talk about something esle, a lie is a lie. same as 3 millions are in camps.

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## 大汉奸柳传志

Numerous said:


> I don't know how Chinese society works but graveyards in cities is a common site in Muslim countries and also the west.


well that's not the case with city planning and real estate business here in China.. I know in some European countries things are like what you said though

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## Pakhtoon yum

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> that even makes less sense. who would want to live next to a graveryard? developers want to build houses that can be sold, business 101 for you silly.
> 
> 
> I honestly dont know why they made you a mod here..


Are you actually that stupid or is there a language barrier? You dont barry your dead so dont start acting like an expert.


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## Numerous

beijingwalker said:


> That how rumor mongerers work, first they made a rumor, after being debunked, they talk about something esle, a lie is a lie. same as 3 millions are in camps.



Maybe if you didn't jail people for no reason and for so long then maybe their relatives wouldn't think they're dead...


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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> Maybe if you didn't jail people for no reason and for so long then maybe their relatives wouldn't think they're dead...


No one jails people for no reason, jailing people costs a lot of money at least. The result for today's rich, peaceful and prosperous Xinjiang shows how successful China's policy is during the last decade.

Now try to explain those happy Xinjiang high schoolers.

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## Pakhtoon yum

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> well that's not the case with city planning and real estate business here in China.. I know in some European countries things are like what you said though


City planning rotated and molds to cultural sensitivities. If they want a graveyard under their bed then they can have it.



beijingwalker said:


> No one jails people for no reason, jailing people costs a lot of money at least. The result for today's rich, peaceful and prosperous Xinjiang shows how successful China's policy is during the last decade.
> 
> Now try to explain those happy Xinjiang high schoolers.


Nice vids, does the government supply u with these?


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## beijingwalker

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Nice vids, does the government supply u with these?



Do those kids look like they are staged to you? it's a high schooler's kind of childish video, surprised you think it's otherwise and everything not against China must be staged.

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## Pakhtoon yum

beijingwalker said:


> Do those kids look like they are staged to you? it's a high schooler's kind of childish video, surprised you think it's otherwise and everything not against China must be staged.


Communism produces many forced yet believable vids. Should ask where they're family members are.


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## beijingwalker

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Communism produces many forced yet believable vids. Should ask where they're family members are.


Make a poll and see how many think a casual and unprofessional video like this is a staged one, you lost your common sense, man.

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## Pakhtoon yum

beijingwalker said:


> Make a poll and see how many think a casual and unprofessional video like this is a staged one, you lost your common sense, man.


I lost my common sense? Why dont you go down to Xinjiang and see if they are scared to practice their religion out in public. Go and record the azan being preformed and then I will eat my words.


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## beijingwalker

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Why dont you go down to Xinjiang and see if they are scared to practice their religion out in public.


Did you? tell me why those kids are so happy.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> He was banned, several Chinese poster got banned recently defending Xinjiang, you and me could be the next.



If you can prevent yourself from referring to Muslims’ lands as caves, camels, and deserts, you will be fine.

We shouldn’t have to tolerate that racist stereotyping. Also, he makes China look bad.

Do you have any counter article or media to show a different side of the story about the graveyard?

Maybe graves were respectfully moved to another location to allow city expansion?

KSA has done it before, and Muslim countries are no strangers to this kind of issue.

Shrine and Grave/Darbar on Kasur road was moved in Lahore to expand the road and to allow some relief to traffic congestion. The people part of that Sufi group protested for a long time, but eventually accepted judgement of the city government.

Same thing happened when our beloved Kalma Chowk was removed for an overpass, the whole of Lahore was up in arms and everything calmed down a few weeks after.

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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> If you can prevent yourself from referring to Muslims’ lands as caves, camels, and deserts, you will be fine.
> 
> We shouldn’t have to tolerate that racist stereotyping. Also, he makes China look bad.
> 
> Do you have any counter article or media to show a different side of the story about the graveyard?
> 
> Maybe graves were respectfully moved to another location to allow city expansion?
> 
> KSA has done it before, and Muslim countries are no strangers to this kind of issue.
> 
> Shrine and Grave/Darbar on Kasur road was moved in Lahore to expand the road and to allow some relief to traffic congestion. The people part of that Sufi group protested for a long time, but eventually accepted judgement of the city government.
> 
> Same thing happened when our beloved Kalma Chowk was removed for an overpass, the whole of Lahore was up in arms and everything calmed down a few weeks after.




This is probably the most sane response I seen here on this PDF thread to be fair I think a lot members on PDF be it the Pakistanis,Chinese,Turks,Iranians and Arabs etc have got bogged down by their sheer arogance leading to spats like this its making spend less time on PDF when a Turk opens a thread on Xinjiang vice versa a Chinese open a thread about Kurds in Turkey be sure you have Dumbass Pakistani take side with a Turk or Chinese all depends on the individual PDF problem in the past was mainly a Indo-Pakistani troll fights but lately other foreigners who have seen how mods manage those troll fights so they cause fights like these to occur it really dilutes the threads and makes it them yawn troll fights as for the whole graveyard dispute again I think its more politics not saying the Chinese are right here but like I said geo political agendas by rival powers tend to inflate stuff like this to harm relations between states thankfully sane folks are in the CPC,GHQ and in both their MFAs while PDF Kids fight over stupid stuff as @MastanKhan usually says

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## Brainsucker

To be honest, this is a pointless debate. Because both sides have different tradition and value. Both Muslim countries and China have fundamentally different belief, live style, doctrine, and even political correctness. And the sad thing is, both sides blames the other with their own fundamental value, that actually doesn't work to the other side. There is no common ground in here.

So the problem is, who respect who. The Muslims demand China respect their tradition and religion, while China demand them to respect Chinese internal affair. Nobody wrong, but everybody are also wrong in this respect. The main problem is because Pakistan is China's ally. Without this special status, nobody needs to talk. No Chinese will care about showing how good they treat Muslims in the country (because they're not actually care. As they're a communist country).

Now, because of this special status, as both China and Pakistan thinks that they're ally, and all weather friend, then there should be a common ground that everybody must respect. Pakistani posters, and muslims demands that China respect Islamic tradition, Uyghur Islamic tradition, and their freedom for religion. While China demands their ally to respect PRC internal affair.

Now, the question is, if Pakistani friends demand China to respect Islam and to protect their tradition, then can they actually respect Communism? An ideology that is actually Islam core enemy? People can argue that China is no longer a Communist Country. But that Communist ideology still has some of their trace in China's political system and also influence their Government decision. And Chinese Posters, like it or not, was born in a country that value Communism as their ideology. They may change, because of the influence from outside world, and their own old tradition, like Confucian. But it doesn't mean communism is dead.

You must remember, that in Cultural Revolution in China, they hated all religion, and burn all religion worship place. Whatever they're temple, Mosques, Church. So even if they're no longer the same as they were in that era, but that Communism still there. Of course, China wants to change. They're evolve, to leave their communism doctrine. But you can't expect them to suddenly become somebody else that is not the old them. It require process. and the Geo Political situation influence their decision. They may return to be a hardcore communist if they think they need it again. 

And for Chinese people, you must learn, Pakistan is a traditional Muslim Country, who use Islam as their core value and tradition. So, to respect Pakistani, you have to respect their core value too, Islam.

So what kind of common ground that Pakistani and Chinese people need? Without this, no progress will happen. Does Communism make trust impossible to both Pakistani and Chinese? Or does Religion make Chinese doesn't like Pakistani? If both side agree that kind of trust is impossible, then there is no need to talk any further.

BUT, if everyone still think that trust can be required, and bridge can be build, then there should be common ground, and actually compromise. So what compromise that both sides can give?

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## Char

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> that even makes less sense. who would want to live next to a graveryard? developers want to build houses that can be sold, business 101 for you silly.
> 
> 
> I honestly dont know why they made you a mod here..





Brainsucker said:


> To be honest, this is a pointless debate. Because both sides have different tradition and value. Both Muslim countries and China have fundamentally different belief, live style, doctrine, and even political correctness. And the sad thing is, both sides blames the other with their own fundamental value, that actually doesn't work to the other side. There is no common ground in here.
> 
> So the problem is, who respect who. The Muslims demand China respect their tradition and religion, while China demand them to respect Chinese internal affair. Nobody wrong, but everybody are also wrong in this respect. The main problem is because Pakistan is China's ally. Without this special status, nobody needs to talk. No Chinese will care about showing how good they treat Muslims in the country (because they're not actually care. As they're a communist country).
> 
> Now, because of this special status, as both China and Pakistan thinks that they're ally, and all weather friend, then there should be a common ground that everybody must respect. Pakistani posters, and muslims demands that China respect Islamic tradition, Uyghur Islamic tradition, and their freedom for religion. While China demands their ally to respect PRC internal affair.
> 
> Now, the question is, if Pakistani friends demand China to respect Islam and to protect their tradition, then can they actually respect Communism? An ideology that is actually Islam core enemy? People can argue that China is no longer a Communist Country. But that Communist ideology still has some of their trace in China's political system and also influence their Government decision. And Chinese Posters, like it or not, was born in a country that value Communism as their ideology. They may change, because of the influence from outside world, and their own old tradition, like Confucian. But it doesn't mean communism is dead.
> 
> You must remember, that in Cultural Revolution in China, they hated all religion, and burn all religion worship place. Whatever they're temple, Mosques, Church. So even if they're no longer the same as they were in that era, but that Communism still there. Of course, China wants to change. They're evolve, to leave their communism doctrine. But you can't expect them to suddenly become somebody else that is not the old them. It require process. and the Geo Political situation influence their decision. They may return to be a hardcore communist if they think they need it again.
> 
> And for Chinese people, you must learn, Pakistan is a traditional Muslim Country, who use Islam as their core value and tradition. So, to respect Pakistani, you have to respect their core value too, Islam.
> 
> So what kind of common ground that Pakistani and Chinese people need? Without this, no progress will happen. Does Communism make trust impossible to both Pakistani and Chinese? Or does Religion make Chinese doesn't like Pakistani? If both side agree that kind of trust is impossible, then there is no need to talk any further.
> 
> BUT, if everyone still think that trust can be required, and bridge can be build, then there should be common ground, and actually compromise. So what compromise that both sides can give?



Pakistanis not friendly with China belong to three groups:
1. educated by Saudi arabi school, global Islam
2. educated by West, in the name of human rights
3. educated by Turkish school, just take the side of Turkey

So you can realize how important education is.

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## Pakhtoon yum

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> If you can prevent yourself from referring to Muslims’ lands as caves, camels, and deserts, you will be fine.
> 
> We shouldn’t have to tolerate that racist stereotyping. Also, he makes China look bad.
> 
> Do you have any counter article or media to show a different side of the story about the graveyard?
> 
> Maybe graves were respectfully moved to another location to allow city expansion?
> 
> KSA has done it before, and Muslim countries are no strangers to this kind of issue.
> 
> Shrine and Grave/Darbar on Kasur road was moved in Lahore to expand the road and to allow some relief to traffic congestion. The people part of that Sufi group protested for a long time, but eventually accepted judgement of the city government.
> 
> Same thing happened when our beloved Kalma Chowk was removed for an overpass, the whole of Lahore was up in arms and everything calmed down a few weeks after.


The Chinese are like the frog in the well. They just gained some money and are.acting like the blonde bit$ch at the mall. Thinking she owns everything



Char said:


> Pakistanis not friendly with China belong to three groups:
> 1. educated by Saudi arabi school, global Islam
> 2. educated by West, in the name of human rights
> 3. educated by Turkish school, just take the side of Turkey
> 
> So you can realize how important education is.


4. Educated, regarding the Chinese ignorance, racism and Islamophobic activities.



beijingwalker said:


> Did you? tell me why those kids are so happy.


Soo happy so nice, flowers and rainbows. 
That does not change the fact that your country is racist and islamophobic along with many of the Chinese posters here.

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## Dubious

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> I honestly dont know why they made you a mod here..


To deal with creatures like you  

Couldnt answer my questions? Expected nothing less!....have a great day

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## beijingwalker

Pakhtoon yum said:


> That does not change the fact that your country is racist and islamophobic along with many of the Chinese posters here.


What China is is not defined by you, who really do you think you are, haters are gonna hate, but your hate brings nothing to you cause you are nobody.

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## Pakhtoon yum

Dubious said:


> To deal with creatures like you
> 
> Couldnt answer my questions? Expected nothing less!....have a great day


Why so much patience with these idiots? I've had enough of the moderation here giving them leeway



beijingwalker said:


> What China is is not defined by you, who really do you think you are, haters are gonna hate, but your hate brings nothing to you cause you are nobody.


Who am I? A FREE CITIZEN OF THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN

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## Dubious

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Why so much patience with these idiots? I've had enough of the moderation here giving them leeway


We give them warnings every now and then...Warnings are not visible to common members doesnt mean we arent dealing with them! 

They troll but dont cross the line of permanent ban/ immediate ban! So they lose 1 point and very few people report them...

I do agree the management has been VERY lenient to them! They cry as bad as new indians do when given a warning or negative rating and go haywire to get to remove it! Ask @WebMaster why they are freely allowed to abuse every other nation INCLUDING Pakistanis and their special hatred towards Islam and Muslims JUST because a few number of the 1.2 billion of us did something wrong ONCE upon a time! 

By such standards we should take offense to what a few Chinese mafia do and project that onto ALL CHINESE...but once tables are turned they just rely on their street abusive language! Very few are sane and patient members who mean good ...but Many still need to get out of their caves!

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## Char

Pakhtoon yum said:


> 4. Educated, regarding the Chinese ignorance, racism and Islamophobic activities.



Im curious how are you educated.

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## Pakhtoon yum

Dubious said:


> We give them warnings every now and then...Warnings are not visible to common members doesnt mean we arent dealing with them!
> 
> They troll but dont cross the line of permanent ban/ immediate ban! So they lose 1 point and very few people report them...
> 
> I do agree the management has been VERY lenient to them! They cry as bad as new indians do when given a warning or negative rating and go haywire to get to remove it! Ask @WebMaster why they are freely allowed to abuse every other nation INCLUDING Pakistanis and their special hatred towards Islam and Muslims JUST because a few number of the 1.2 billion of us did something wrong ONCE upon a time!
> 
> By such standards we should take offense to what a few Chinese mafia do and project that onto ALL CHINESE...but once tables are turned they just rely on their street abusive language! Very few are sane and patient members who mean good ...but Many still need to get out of their caves!


We should cause that's how they function. All the Chinese posters here are racist and islamophobic. If you argue against them ot say otherwise then you are an American, Saudi or Persian, educated by them. Like seriously wtf?!!

@WebMaster why so much leeway to these racist and islamophobic chinese people?



Char said:


> Im curious how are you educated.


Private schools Peshawar. Have a problem racist sum?

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## beijingwalker

Pakhtoon yum said:


> We should cause that's how they function. All the Chinese posters here are racist and islamophobic.


I don't know about others, I m not.


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## Dubious

Char said:


> Im curious how are you educated.


not in a cave forced against will, that is for sure!

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> not in a cave forced against will, that is for sure!


Those caves rank pretty high in global university rankings and are the top ones in Asia.

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## Pakhtoon yum

beijingwalker said:


> I don't know about others, I m not.


Yes you are, go look at your other posts. When the Chinese members start to have a problem with a damn graveyard then their is an absolute racist and mentally ill, situation going on.


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## Char

Pakhtoon yum said:


> We should cause that's how they function. All the Chinese posters here are racist and islamophobic. If you argue against them ot say otherwise then you are an American, Saudi or Persian, educated by them. Like seriously wtf?!!
> 
> @WebMaster why so much leeway to these racist and islamophobic chinese people?
> 
> 
> Private schools Peshawar. Have a problem racist sum?



You are spoiled by politics correct, I dont care.

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## Pakhtoon yum

Char said:


> You are spoiled by politics correct, I dont care.


You are spoiled by ignorance, racist and islamophobic mindset.


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## beijingwalker

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Yes you are, go look at your other posts. When the Chinese members start to have a problem with a damn graveyard then their is an absolute racist and mentally ill, situation going on.


Show me anything I said that suggests I m a racist, can you? a graveyard? what are you talking about?

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## Char

Pakhtoon yum said:


> You are spoiled by ignorance, racist and islamophobic mindset.



History will teach you how to be nice


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## Pakhtoon yum

Char said:


> History will teach you how to be nice


Ohh dont you bring history into this, because we have been here before and last time your racist kin got a bloody mouth from the Abbasids


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Those caves rank pretty high in global university rankings and are the top ones in Asia.


Let me put this in prospective...With the population size of China, it is common to have a handful of "good students"...Many which is good...Doesnt equal to being a good human! or even a good neighbour! 

I mean psychos have high IQ and excel in society but when they come to killing...their HIGH IQ also enable them to be equally dangerous!



beijingwalker said:


> Show me anything I said that suggests I m a racist, can you? a graveyard? what are you talking about?


the thread abt the graveyard in China


Char said:


> History will teach you how to be nice


Has history taught you? Apart from being selfish, whatelse has it taught you?

@beijingwalker there was 1 Chinese member that even our Chinese TT thought was behaving like shit...But I guess to support blindly is a thing for you, all your members were supporting him when he was going openly racist! If it wasnt for your TT to step in, MOST of you would have been banned! THAT is how dangerous your brainwashing education can be!

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> @beijingwalker there was 1 Chinese member that even our Chinese TT thought was behaving like shit...But I guess to support blindly is a thing for you, all your members were supporting him when he was going openly racist! If it wasnt for your TT to step in, MOST of you would have been banned! THAT is how dangerous your brainwashing education can be!


Our education is fine, and it's getting better and better, more and more foreign students now seek education in China, including many Pakistanis.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Show me anything I said that suggests I m a racist, can you? a graveyard? what are you talking about?


Supporting the ruin of 1 nation that doesnt behave like you, has different culture, language and religion than you is being racist!



beijingwalker said:


> Our education is fine, and it's getting better and better, more and more foreign students now seek education in China, including many Pakistanis.


Equally as many Chinese are abroad...Foreign students mostly go to China because of funding! 

Yes it includes Pakistanis, your point being? Just coz people are going to xyz doesnt negate the racist factor!

Many people go to Australia! Even Chinese! And Australia is counted as most racist! Many flock to USA and Americans are also counted as racist after Trump! So people coming in is not a measure of anything but funding...people go where the money is!



beijingwalker said:


> I don't know about others, I m not.


Do you get triggered abt Islam, Muslims and Uighur Muslims?

I know you do...Coz I issued you a warning once

Do you not get hostile on East Turkistan threads? With Turks?

@beijingwalker You are a sane poster and I hope you remain sane!


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## B.K.N

beijingwalker said:


> including many Pakistanis.



Mostly medical students with low marks in Fsc go to China because for them it's not easy to get admission in Pakistani colleges


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## beijingwalker

Brass Knuckles said:


> Mostly medical students with low marks in Fsc go to China because for them it's not easy to get admission in Pakistani colleges


Maybe, but they are still Pakistani students, some reports say that most of China's scholarship goes to Pakistani students.

I don't know why you guys call me a racist, I m not and I know I m not. I hate racists and often openly criticize racism, I've never been labelled as a racist besides here in PDF, how funny.

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## Brainsucker

@Dubious Let me tell you one thing about graveyard in chinese mind, that you dont know because of different culture and belief.

Why there is no graveyard in the city? He is not wrong. because chinese believe in feng shui and graveyard is bad for fengshui. Thats why no developer will build a city near graveyard

Oh no. This is why i hate using smartphone to open pdf. Wrong quote and triple post because of bad connectiom.

Sorry pan. I supposed to quote @Dubious

Edit : Ok, I have edit it via my laptop.

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## Brainsucker

Islamic faith&Secularism said:


> The Illegal Chinese de-Islamization and identification now target the Muslim graveyard in East Turkestan.
> 
> Also, Some 36 mosques in East Turkestan are destroyed, one of them is seen in the third picture.
> 
> 
> *''*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nottingham Üniversitesinden Uygur tarihçi Rian Thum'un kamuoyu ile paylaştığı bilgilere göre, Çin, son olarak Doğu Türkistan'ın Hoten kentindeki merkez mezarlığı ortadan kaldırdı.
> 
> Sosyal medya hesaplarında bazı Müslüman alimlerin türbelerinin de bulunduğu mezarlığın önceki ve yıkıldıktan sonraki halinin görüntülerini paylaşan Uygurlar, buranın Çin'in ortadan kaldırdığı ilk mezarlık olmadığı iletisini paylaştı.
> 
> _(Mezarlığın önceki hali)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*(Mezarlığın şimdiki hali)*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *''*
> The source: https://www.timeturk.com/cin-dogu-turkistan-da-musluman-mezarliklarini-yok-etti/haber-1099513
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *''*
> *Chinese govt has destroyed graveyard of Uighur community: Historian *
> 
> The chinese government has destroyed a graveyard which belonged to Uighur community in Khotan .. claimed historian Rian Thum on Wednesday.
> "The chinese authorities has now destroyed the valuable Uyghur graveyard in Khotan. It was additionally the site of numerous sacred shrines," tweeted Thum, along with two pictures taken from satellite tv for pc: First displaying a land packed with shape and the second one of barren land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *''*
> The source: https://www.business-standard.com/a...ighur-community-historian-119061300091_1.html
> 
> 
> Here is more evidences:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138556480804786176
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138556749236060162
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138558285076938752
> 
> Here is how Chinese trolls try to immorally cover the situation:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138819812719833088
> 
> I am pretty sure some of those Chinese trolls will do the same here.



Well, in Indonesia, in my town, our Chinese Graveyard was also got destroyed for the sake of building houses. And we never complain about that. Because we understand, that land is for living people. The need of living people surpass the need of the dead. So, we relocated the graveyard of our grandparents, or just cremate them.

Remember, this is Indonesia. Where the majority of people are Muslim.And we never think that they're bullying us by destroying our graveyard.

So why Graveyard become an issue now?

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## 大汉奸柳传志

Dubious said:


> To deal with creatures like you
> 
> Couldnt answer my questions? Expected nothing less!....have a great day


why such butthurt? I only want to point out your biased moderation and you result to name calling..

anyway this is an open forum with posters from all over the world, maybe you couldn't handle people hurting your religious feelings but that is not my problem.



Char said:


> Pakistanis not friendly with China belong to three groups:
> 1. educated by Saudi arabi school, global Islam
> 2. educated by West, in the name of human rights
> 3. educated by Turkish school, just take the side of Turkey
> 
> So you can realize how important education is.



salafist mindset have been poisoning Xinjiang for the last 2 decades, good thing is we are more than capable to put an end to it, and that's exactly what we are doing.

don't mind those terrorist sympathisers, what can they do other than ranting in butthurt?

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## ZeEa5KPul

Wow, this is still going. I'd like to make something very clear to my Pakistani friends here - whatever you think of China and what it does, China doesn't f*ck with you. America f*cked and and continues to f*ck you royally:




Do you understand how lucky you are to be allied with a rising superpower that doesn't do anything to you? More than that, it does plenty for you:










Don't screw this up...

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## Globenim

Reading the last 10 pages and all we got is some foreign Turks and fresh who knows accounts talking on behalf of Chinese citizen, insulting Chinese and intelligence of Pakis and dumping almost template American propaganda tales about China that run contrary to any facts and evidence, that old silly staged fake photo series that they keep posting but no one has ever provided a source for in it must be years now and a few satelite photos of modern housing projects in towns... which is automatically bad because China.

Meanwhile your get hundreds of paid to lie Americans and Co aka "free press journalists" running trough all of Xinjiang desperately looking for some oppression footage, followed by whining about the very Chinese government that let them walk there and take pictures in first place, after they only got another collection of random fences and policemen, they now have to invent nasty captions for, to spin their boring trip, ignoring all the beautiful places, into some horror story.

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## masterchief_mirza

Globenim said:


> Reading the last 10 pages and all we got is some foreign Turks and fresh who knows accounts talking on behalf of Chinese citizen, insulting Chinese and intelligence of Pakis and dumping almost template American propaganda tales about China that run contrary to any facts and evidence, that old silly staged fake photo series that they keep posting but no one has ever provided a source for in it must be years now and a few satelite photos of modern housing projects in towns... which is automatically bad because China.
> 
> Meanwhile your get hundreds of paid to lie Americans and Co aka "free press journalists" running trough all of Xinjiang desperately looking for some oppression footage, followed by whining about the very Chinese government that let them walk there and take pictures in first place, after they only got another collection of random fences and policemen, they now have to invent nasty captions for, to spin their boring trip, ignoring all the beautiful places, into some horror story.


Nailed it.


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## Brainsucker

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> why such butthurt? I only want to point out your biased moderation and you result to name calling..
> 
> anyway this is an open forum with posters from all over the world, maybe you couldn't handle people hurting your religious feelings but that is not my problem.



No, that is actually a problem. Because to be an ally, both of your people need to have "trust" to each other. If you want their respect, you have also respect them. And because they're so religious feeling, don't mock their religion in front of them. If you don't want to understand them, they won't to try understand you.



Dubious said:


> the thread abt the graveyard in China
> 
> !



Hi @Dubious, I have a question about Islam. In My country, there are saying that Islam prohibit their worshipers to pray at the graveyard. Is it true? If that's right, then this graveyard matter has no relation with your religion. Because Graveyard has very weak relationship with Islam, as religion. But, if it's false, then please tell me about it.

I thought even in Saudi, there is a time limit for the people to be buried in a Graveyard. And after some time pass, they will be dig out for the burial to another. That's what I read from one of my country newspaper, who told about the grave of our PBNU and Muhammadiyah founders (both are the biggest Islamic groups in my country); who died in Saudi long time ago.

If it's true, then there is no problem with relocating the graveyard issue in Xinjiang. Because Graveyard is not a sacred place for Islam as religion. They're there as a pragmatic purpose. But if not, please correct me.

In contrary, Graveyard is a very big matter for Chinese. Because of Feng Shui. The location of graveyard is critical for their belief. Because that has strong relation with how lucky or unlucky you're in your life. A good positioned graveyard is believed can bring your descendant fortunes. But bad fengshui graveyard can create disaster to them.

But at the same time, the location of graveyard is also give unfortune to the house that built near them. That's why when one of Chinese Friend told you that "No Developer will build a house near Graveyard is right" he's right, according to Chinese superstitious and belief.


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## Dubious

Brainsucker said:


> Hi @Dubious, I have a question about Islam. In My country, there are saying that Islam prohibit their worshipers to pray at the graveyard. Is it true? If that's right, then this graveyard matter has no relation with your religion. Because Graveyard has very weak relationship with Islam, as religion. But, if it's false, then please tell me about it.


We *cant pray to* the dead if that is what you are asking but doesnt mean we dissociate with our dead! We pray *FOR them *at the graveyard!



Brainsucker said:


> I thought even in Saudi, there is a time limit for the people to be buried in a Graveyard. And after some time pass, they will be dig out for the burial to another. That's what I read from one of my country newspaper, who told about the grave of our PBNU and Muhammadiyah founders (both are the biggest Islamic groups in my country); who died in Saudi long time ago.


Moving graves is a different story...Usually for a better place or restoration of some historical buildings.... but still doesnt mean disrespect the dead



Brainsucker said:


> I thought even in Saudi, there is a time limit for the people to be buried in a Graveyard. And after some time pass, they will be dig out for the burial to another. That's what I read from one of my country newspaper, who told about the grave of our PBNU and Muhammadiyah founders (both are the biggest Islamic groups in my country); who died in Saudi long time ago.



It is sacred if there is no reason to relocate or if it has historical worth...Like the graves of the martyred in Saudi are not moved...The whole land is used for visiting site and historical importance. Grave of Prophet was not moved...It has been what it is at the present day Madinah. 

I am not sure what you read....



Brainsucker said:


> In contrary, Graveyard is a very big matter for Chinese. Because of Feng Shui. The location of graveyard is critical for their belief. Because that has strong relation with how lucky or unlucky you're in your life. A good positioned graveyard is believed can bring your descendant fortunes. But bad fengshui graveyard can create disaster to them.
> 
> But at the same time, the location of graveyard is also give unfortune to the house that built near them. That's why when one of Chinese Friend told you that "No Developer will build a house near Graveyard is right" he's right, according to Chinese superstitious and belief.


I understand but the thread on the matter of the graveyard of the Muslims in China (a different thread) was being discussed...there seems to be a residential area at the graveyard site...

My question was which came first? The graveyard prior to the residential area- which would mean they constructed on or near the Muslim graveyard, which as you said is wrong as per Chinese believe but it has been done! OR if the residential area came first why dont the Chinese Muslims have a place to bury their dead that they needed to make one in the residential area? So question is still pending which one came first?



大汉奸柳传志 said:


> why such butthurt? I only want to point out your biased moderation and you result to name calling..


Name calling really? Creatures of the earth also include human 



大汉奸柳传志 said:


> anyway this is an open forum with posters from all over the world, maybe you couldn't handle people hurting your religious feelings but that is not my problem.


Hurting anyone's religious feelings is against forum rules...Maybe you cant follow rules?



Brainsucker said:


> Hi @Dubious,


Oh sorry forgot  Hi

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## 大汉奸柳传志

Dubious said:


> Hurting anyone's religious feelings is against forum rules...Maybe you cant follow rules?


oh man this is hilarious...instead of dealing with your own insecurity about islam you want to hide behind forum rules..

let me make it simple for you: if you can't handle the forum, then don't come,let alone becom a mod...it's like giving a gun to a 12 year old

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## Brainsucker

Dubious said:


> We *cant pray to* the dead if that is what you are asking but doesnt mean we dissociate with our dead! We pray *FOR them *at the graveyard!
> 
> 
> Moving graves is a different story...Usually for a better place or restoration of some historical buildings.... but still doesnt mean disrespect the dead
> 
> 
> 
> It is sacred if there is no reason to relocate or if it has historical worth...Like the graves of the martyred in Saudi are not moved...The whole land is used for visiting site and historical importance. Grave of Prophet was not moved...It has been what it is at the present day Madinah.
> 
> I am not sure what you read....
> 
> 
> I understand but the thread on the matter of the graveyard of the Muslims in China (a different thread) was being discussed...there seems to be a residential area at the graveyard site...
> 
> My question was which came first? The graveyard prior to the residential area- which would mean they constructed on or near the Muslim graveyard, which as you said is wrong as per Chinese believe but it has been done! OR if the residential area came first why dont the Chinese Muslims have a place to bury their dead that they needed to make one in the residential area? So question is still pending which one came first?



Thanks for the clarification. Well, let's wait for the answer. 

About the news that I read, they talk about the grave of the founders of two biggest Islamic Groups in my country, which was buried in Saudi. The news said that usually, in Saudi, the body will be relocated after a period of time (after they were buried). But because the founders were important persons for Islam, then their grave still there, and not relocated. 

About the Chinese Muslims you mentioned, Is it Uyghur, or Hui?


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## Dubious

大汉奸柳传志 said:


> oh man this is hilarious...instead of dealing with your own insecurity about islam you want to hide behind forum rules..


Trolling is also against the rules and none of your posts have contributed anything except as a troll



大汉奸柳传志 said:


> let me make it simple for you: if you can't handle the forum, then don't come,let alone becom a mod...it's like giving a gun to a 12 year old


 First learn to type proper English so that one can communicate with you and know you at least can understand enough English to be deemed communicable. Then practice what you preach 

The forum has rules and "attacking" religion is against the forum rules...Thank you for admitting you have been doing so!

Come back when you know the rules and can be polite to other members, nations and religion! 

@waz @Slav Defence 
This guy has repeatedly trolled....enough is enough! 



Brainsucker said:


> The news said that usually, in Saudi, the body will be relocated after a period of time (after they were buried).


Maybe the rule is different for foreigners?



Brainsucker said:


> Uyghur


On this thread it is a hot topic that the mainland Chinese have not been able to "discuss" and instead run off EVERY thread on Uyghurs

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## Kai Liu

beijingwalker said:


> No one jails people for no reason, jailing people costs a lot of money at least. The result for today's rich, peaceful and prosperous Xinjiang shows how successful China's policy is during the last decade.
> 
> Now try to explain those happy Xinjiang high schoolers.


Man, this video alone can put all these China haters into complete shame... Just compare the mentality of the kids in both videos... You can tell who is healthy and who is sick...
Look at what kind of "education" they are receiving in the so called "democratic free society"...

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## Nilgiri

^^ And what did France exactly do to you?






Even an aftershock of an earthquake can destroy France <----wtf.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Brainsucker said:


> Sorry pan. I supposed to quote @Dubious



No worries man.

By the way, I am really sure there is a perfectly logical explanation for this. I don’t believe the propaganda that China is killing/persecuting Muslims.

We just want to hear what that explanation is. I wish we had some PR official or someone with ties to CCP to inform us.

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## Char

Dubious said:


> Let me put this in prospective...With the population size of China, it is common to have a handful of "good students"...Many which is good...Doesnt equal to being a good human! or even a good neighbour!
> 
> I mean psychos have high IQ and excel in society but when they come to killing...their HIGH IQ also enable them to be equally dangerous!
> 
> 
> the thread abt the graveyard in China
> 
> Has history taught you? Apart from being selfish, whatelse has it taught you?
> 
> @beijingwalker there was 1 Chinese member that even our Chinese TT thought was behaving like shit...But I guess to support blindly is a thing for you, all your members were supporting him when he was going openly racist! If it wasnt for your TT to step in, MOST of you would have been banned! THAT is how dangerous your brainwashing education can be!



global Islam hate everything modern but love politics correct, they can hate you but you can't hate them, that's their logic.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Brainsucker said:


> Well, in Indonesia, in my town, our Chinese Graveyard was also got destroyed for the sake of building houses. And we never complain about that. Because we understand, that land is for living people. The need of living people surpass the need of the dead. So, we relocated the graveyard of our grandparents, or just cremate them.
> 
> Remember, this is Indonesia. Where the majority of people are Muslim.And we never think that they're bullying us by destroying our graveyard.
> 
> So why Graveyard become an issue now?



You can go to your local masjid in Indonesia, and they can give you a better idea of the place of graveyards in Islam.

For example, Jannatul Baqi (graveyard of sahabah and early Muslims) in Madinah is one of our most important historical and religious sites.



Char said:


> global Islam hate everything modern but love politics correct, they can hate you but you can't hate them, that's their logic.



Pakistan and Iran are both Islamic Republics and allies of China.

Give it a rest please.

Unfortunately, vast majority of the Muslim world is being controlled directly or indirectly by the United States.

Also, China needs to do a better job at communicating with the Muslim countries to alleviate people’s fears.

Ignoring the issue will not solve it.

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## Kai Liu

Nilgiri said:


> ^^ And what did France exactly do to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even an aftershock of an earthquake can destroy France <----wtf.


Clown Sarkozy did some dirty tricks to disrupt the Olympic torch relay which made a lot of people angry...
But your so-called "democratic free society" is still a joke...lol...

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## beijingwalker

Kai Liu said:


> Man, this video alone can put all these China haters into complete shame... Just compare the mentality of the kids in both videos... You can tell who is healthy and who is sick...
> Look at what kind of "education" they are receiving in the so called "democratic free society"...


That's crazy!!! Teaching kids to love wars...it's like prewar Nazi Germany.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> No worries man.
> 
> By the way, I am really sure there is a perfectly logical explanation for this. I don’t believe the propaganda that China is killing/persecuting Muslims.



Yes, anyone with a sane mind won't believe it, if China really lock up and torture 3 million Uighurs, by law of probability, there must be some people died among them, but till now not even one person was confirmed dead , the only one was confirmed dead by Turkish "reliable sources" was proven to be a lie and that guy is alive and kicking, not even one person died from persecution and torture among 3 millions, I guess only China can do this kind of torturing, not even one Uighur officer or soldier turned their guns against the Chinese government while based on western media all their people live in misery and fear, I guess only China can do this kind of persecution, nothing addes up right about those propaganda, anyone with a sane mind won't believe it.

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## Dubious

Char said:


> global Islam hate everything modern but love politics correct, they can hate you but you can't hate them, that's their logic.


Not at all correct!

*What Muslim people do is not always the same as what ISLAM teaches.*

Like *what Chinese do and what China stands for are not ALWAYS the same.* 

For instance:

China does punish its people (if the people do nothing wrong, why China have punishment?)...

Also Chinese people in other countries dont always follow rules of China because they are in other countries....


So *what Chinese people do is NOT ALWAYS the same as what China says*... *depends on circumstances *(criminal breaks laws / tourists/ students in other countries - out of China dont follow what China says)...but they are still CHINESE, right?

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## beijingwalker

Actually many if not most ETIM terrorists are trained and operating in Pakistan, but China never says anything against Pakistan government and always reiterates our support to Pakistan and appeals to the global society to recoganize the effort and sacrifice made by Pakistan in fighting terrorism, we don't say anything doesn't mean we don't know anything, as a friend and ally, China chose to trust Pakistan rather than finger pointing and that's what a true friend is supposed to do when ally's is in a difficult time, standing firmly by instead of kicking when down or stabbing in the back.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/worl...at-to-china/story-EDzi4FsOp9rRiY49biSLqK.html

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## Yankee-stani

beijingwalker said:


> Actually many if not most ETIM terrorists are trained and operating in Pakistan, but China never says anything against Pakistan government and always reiterates our support to Pakistan and appeals to the global society to recoganize the effort and sacrifice made by Pakistan in fighting terrorism, we don't say anything doesn't mean we don't know anything, as a friend and ally, China chose to trust Pakistan rather than finger pointing and that's what a true friend is supposed to do when ally's is in a difficult time, standing firmly by instead of kicking when down or stabbing in the back.
> 
> https://www.hindustantimes.com/worl...at-to-china/story-EDzi4FsOp9rRiY49biSLqK.html



You are forgetting one point the ETIM is listed as terror group by Islamabad and also they have targeted our cities and army posts the PNS Mehran incident in 2011 was perparuated by ETIM in Waziristan and in tribal parts of the KPK region these scums were harming civilians and army personnel dont share crap from the tabloid Indian Press @Rasengan

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## beijingwalker

OsmanAli98 said:


> You are forgetting one point the ETIM is listed as terror group by Islamabad and also thru have targeted our cities and army posts the PNS Mehran incident in 2011 was perparuated by ETIM in Waziristan and in tribal parts of the KPK region these scums were harming civilians and army personnel dont share crap from the tabloid Indian Press @Rasengan


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkistan_Islamic_Party
Headquarters North Waziristan, Pakistan






They do operate in Pakistan, China never accused Pakistan for this, course we trust Pakistan and always stand by Pakistan when the west accused Pakistan as the hotbed for terrorism.

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## Yankee-stani

beijingwalker said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkistan_Islamic_Party
> Headquarters North Waziristan, Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They do operate in Pakistan, China never accused Pakistan for this, course we trust Pakistan and always stand by Pakistan when the west accused Pakistan as the hotbed for terrorism.



Yet they no longer operate there since the PAF cleaned up the place besides when China asked for suspected Uyghurs in ETIM they were deported back to the PRC as per PRC request

Before 2014 there was no administration in those parts in fact it was controlled by the TTP which is allied with the ETIM people fled Swat,Mingora ,Wazristan etc

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## beijingwalker

I know Pakistan may have some trouble to tame its rebels and terrorists in the north tribal regions, every year there are several attacks targetting Chinese and some Chinese died from those attacks, both Chinese government and Chinese posters here never blamed Pakistan for failing to protect Chinese citizens cause we know you already tried very hard, much more Pakistanis got killed from terrorists attacks than Chinese. We only hail the heros who tried to protect our people. and we also hope Pakistani government and people don't sensationalize Xinjiang issues and understand we are just trying to maintian Xinjiang's safety and stability, safegurarding the currently fast development and growth of this region.

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## Yankee-stani

beijingwalker said:


> I know Pakistan may have some trouble to tame its rebels and terrorists in the north tribal regions, every year there are several attacks targetting Chinese and some Chinese died from those attacks, both Chinese government and Chinese posters here never blamed Pakistan for failing to protect Chinese citizens cause we know you already tried very hard, much more Pakistanis got killed from terrorists attacks than Chinese. We only hail the heros who tried to protect our people. and we also hope Pakistani government and people don't sensationalize Xinjiang issues and understand we are just trying to maintian Xinjiang's safety and stability, safegurarding the currently fast development and growth of this region.



Listen PDF is barley anything close to Pakistani public opinion or Pakistani policy circles this is just a diaspora or fourm circle jerk place for tween wannabe politicians from all over the place 99 percent of the incels here bark and dont do shit i am myself tbh bark at times but whats worth when none of us here have any influence on politics of our respective countries

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## beijingwalker

Global Chinese donate for the officers killed protecting Chinese consulate in Pakistan








OsmanAli98 said:


> Listen PDF is barley anything close to Pakistani public opinion or Pakistani policy circles this is just a diaspora or fourm circle jerk place for tween wannabe politicians from all over the plave 99 percent of the incels here bark and dont do shit i am myself tbh bark at times but whats worth when none of us here have any influence on politics of pur respective countries


Pakistan is a friendly country, but recently many Chinese poster are banned on PDF, some Pakistani China bashers used terms like dirty Chinks, Chinese pig... but they never got punished, I don't think Chinese posters would ever attack Pakistan if not terribly provoked, so I suggest the Mod can hand out punishment fairly, I know the Mod is against China over Xinjiang, but as a Mod , they represent the whole PDF community.

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## Yankee-stani

beijingwalker said:


> Global Chinese donate for the officers killed protecting Chinese consulate in Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan is a friendly country, but recently many Chinese poster are banned on PDF, some Pakistani China bashers used terms like dirty Chinks, Chinese pig... but they never got punished, I don't think Chinese posters would ever attack Pakistan if not terribly provoked, so I suggest the Mod can hand out punishment fairly, I know the Mod is against China over Xinjiang, but as a Mod , they represent the whole PDF community.



Well you can ask @Indus Pakistan how he feels about this specfic mod and to fair all the members be it the Turks or Chinese feel they been banned for no reason so dont pin it on just cause you are Chinese

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## ZeEa5KPul

OsmanAli98 said:


> Listen PDF is barley anything close to Pakistani public opinion or Pakistani policy circles this is just a diaspora or fourm circle jerk place for tween wannabe politicians from all over the plave 99 percent of the incels here bark and dont do shit i am myself tbh bark at times but whats worth when none of us here have any influence on politics of pur respective countries


For real. My opinion is about as reflective of Canadian foreign policy and public opinion as Pakistani PDFers are of Pakistan.

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## Yankee-stani

ZeEa5KPul said:


> For real. My opinion is about as reflective of Canadian foreign policy and public opinion as Pakistani PDFers are of Pakistan.



At least you understand many of the Chinese or Pakistani members here dont understand that

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## Nilgiri

Kai Liu said:


> Clown Sarkozy did some dirty tricks to disrupt the Olympic torch relay which made a lot of people angry...
> But your so-called "democratic free society" is still a joke...lol...



Just showing plenty of brainwashing to go around for everyone lol.

One can only imagine what some of your schools teach about Japanese (there are articles about the hate indoctrination reserved for Japanese in Chinese schools anyone can look for)...and maybe about uighur "issue" as well.

It is just amusing you drag India into here to try deflect Pakistanis away from criticizing you over Uighurs. You really think thats going to work? 

The uighur issue is entrenched in the narrative now increasingly about China here (along with chinese marriage scams in Pakistan etc)...and that is something you will just have to grapple with head on. Pointing to big baddie India simply isn't going to work anymore....in fact it will just highlight you have no effective answer for the criticism coming China's way here.

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## Rasengan

OsmanAli98 said:


> You are forgetting one point the ETIM is listed as terror group by Islamabad and also thru have targeted our cities and army posts the PNS Mehran incident in 2011 was perparuated by ETIM in Waziristan and in tribal parts of the KPK region these scums were harming civilians and army personnel dont share crap from the tabloid Indian Press @Rasengan



He needs to get his facts correct. The Chinese are in no position to complain. Uighur's are Chinese citizens and they are responsible for killing Pakistani's. This responsibility falls upon the Chinese Govt to get their house in order, luckily we cleaned up their mess and killed these terrorists. But we have never embarrassed China on this issue even though the shitstorm happening in Xinjiang had spilled over to Pakistan. What many Chinese members don't understand is that after operation strike hard campaign in 1996 in Xinjiang the ETIM had an audience with the Taliban in Afghanistan after they took power. They were on the verge to convince the Taliban to call a Jihad on the Chinese. It was the Pakistani Intelligence service that put a stop to this plan otherwise Xinjiang would be full of chaos. This notion of brotherhood doesn't exist just because of words....Pakistan has done many things for China and vice versa.



beijingwalker said:


> I know Pakistan may have some trouble to tame its rebels and terrorists in the north tribal regions, every year there are several attacks targetting Chinese and some Chinese died from those attacks, both Chinese government and Chinese posters here never blamed Pakistan for failing to protect Chinese citizens cause we know you already tried very hard, much more Pakistanis got killed from terrorists attacks than Chinese. We only hail the heros who tried to protect our people. and we also hope Pakistani government and people don't sensationalize Xinjiang issues and understand we are just trying to maintian Xinjiang's safety and stability, safegurarding the currently fast development and growth of this region.



I have said it many times this forum doesn't reflect the opinion of the ordinary Pakistani. Most individuals are liberal rather than conservative. Why do you think the Chinese are targeted? It's obvious because the CIA and other intelligence services want to harm China's strategic interests. How do we know this? India's biggest spymaster in Pakistan was captured in 2016 Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav. He did a number of operation that attacked Chinese companies in the region. 

The BLA is operating from Afghanistan and their handlers are supplying them weapons. Why aren't the Chinese killed in KPK, Punjab or Sindh? The reason is simple, Balochistan will be the heart of CPEC and the best way to cripple this project is to cause chaos. It's the same advice I give to my fellow Pakistani's. Xinjiang must be secure from terrorism otherwise the whole idea of CPEC will be ruined. I have told you before brother China's PR campaign is the issue. They need to do a much better job. If the American's are throwing $200 million to media house this is because they want a narrative which suits their interests. Hong Kong is a great example, look at how many newsagencies are speaking against China. We have the same problem. Things will only change once we have a Presidential system in place.

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## Rasengan

beijingwalker said:


> Global Chinese donate for the officers killed protecting Chinese consulate in Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan is a friendly country, but recently many Chinese poster are banned on PDF, some Pakistani China bashers used terms like dirty Chinks, Chinese pig... but they never got punished, I don't think Chinese posters would ever attack Pakistan if not terribly provoked, so I suggest the Mod can hand out punishment fairly, I know the Mod is against China over Xinjiang, but as a Mod , they represent the whole PDF community.



I find those words disgusting. I wouldn't even use them on an enemy. Islam teaches us manners, and I hope brother you don't have a bad feeling toward Pakistan. Bigoted people must be banned. Chinese people are also Muslim as the Hui along with the Uighurs are citizens of China. Therefore, when someone calls a Chinese a pig then they are insulting some of their Muslim brothers. This is unacceptable.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> Actually many if not most ETIM terrorists are trained and operating in Pakistan



I think you mean *Afghanistan*.

North Waziristan was taken over by TTP, which was supported by a few Uzbek and Uyghur terrorists (maybe ETIM.)

TTP is an agent of US, India, and Kabul puppet regime, which resists Taliban in Afghanistan and formed an alliance with Daesh. It it trying to overthrow Pakistan’s government.

Pakistani military dislodged then from North Wazirstan, Banu, Swat, Upper Dir, and surrounding areas several years back.



beijingwalker said:


> Global Chinese donate for the officers killed protecting Chinese consulate in Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan is a friendly country, but recently many Chinese poster are banned on PDF, some Pakistani China bashers used terms like dirty Chinks, Chinese pig... but they never got punished, I don't think Chinese posters would ever attack Pakistan if not terribly provoked, so I suggest the Mod can hand out punishment fairly, I know the Mod is against China over Xinjiang, but as a Mod , they represent the whole PDF community.



Many Indian, Turk, Arab, and Pakistani members have been banned for overstepping the line.

Moderation has had to get tough to deal with the increased trolling and personal attacks.

Chinese members who got banned 100% deserve it.

We need to be fair, if we only ban Turks and let Chinese go free for abuse. This is not just.



OsmanAli98 said:


> Well you can ask @Indus Pakistan how he feels about this specfic mod and to fair all the members be it the Turks or Chinese feel they been banned for no reason so dont pin it on just cause you are Chinese



Moderation needs to be more strict. Members need to understand that these back and forth insults between countries is not healthy for this forum.

Keep the discussion informative and without personal insults.



Rasengan said:


> Bigoted people must be banned



Islamophobia from certain Chinese members should not be tolerated on a Pakistani forum.

It also makes China and Chinese look bad and feeds into a negative perception of China.

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## Rasengan

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Islamophobia from certain Chinese members should not be tolerated on a Pakistani forum.
> 
> It also makes China and Chinese look bad and feeds into a negative perception of China.



I agree. Chinese members are representing their country on this forum, thus they must educate Pakistani's on the issue of Xinjiang rather than attacking Islam. They are insulting their fellow countrymen. After all the Hui and the Uighur are Muslims and they are Chinese. Chinese = 56 ethnic groups just not Han. When they insult Muslims they are attacking all Muslim countries and I know China wants a good relationship with the Muslim world. Thank God, the CPC is more level headed than the armchair politicians. CPC is the boss so they should follow the example and wishes of their boss. Pakistan's and China's interests are aligned.

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## Brainsucker

beijingwalker said:


> Global Chinese donate for the officers killed protecting Chinese consulate in Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan is a friendly country, but recently many Chinese poster are banned on PDF, some Pakistani China bashers used terms like dirty Chinks, Chinese pig... but they never got punished, I don't think Chinese posters would ever attack Pakistan if not terribly provoked, so I suggest the Mod can hand out punishment fairly, I know the Mod is against China over Xinjiang, but as a Mod , they represent the whole PDF community.



Oh, don't forget the word "Commie". Previously only American and Western Countries use this insult to China. I never see Indian posters use this words either (well, as long as I know) But recently there are some members with Pakistani and other Islamic Countries banners use this words to attack China members here. I think this is also can be considered as insult.

This is why I wonder, are they really Pakistani? or False Flagger? Because It is unusual for people from Islamic Worlds nor Pakistani posters use this word. If it's true that it come from Pakistani members, then the question is, so why they even bother to ally with a Communist country then? If they can't respect China and use the western insult to their ally. And this is the reason why I posted about the fundamentally different value of Pakistan and China before.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Many Indian, Turk, Arab, and Pakistani members have been banned for overstepping the line.
> 
> Moderation has had to get tough to deal with the increased trolling and personal attacks.
> 
> Chinese members who got banned 100% deserve it.
> 
> We need to be fair, if we only ban Turks and let Chinese go free for abuse. This is not just.
> .



Yeah, there are many Chinese Drunker Masters in here.  So they have to be given a time to be sobered first, before posting in the forum

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## Rasengan

Brainsucker said:


> Oh, don't forget Commie. Previously only American and Western Countries use this insult to China. But recently there are members with Pakistani and other Islamic Countries banners use this words to attack China members here. I think this is also can be considered as insult.



Of course, this should also be regarded as an insult. But there's a famous saying by Mark Twain. "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” Like the old Chinese proverb says "People with no brain have no cure." When someone insults you they show no class. This is not the Muslim way. I have always defended China on this forum along with a bunch of other Pakistani's. We have argued and fought those Pakistani's who have wrongly attacked China. I want Chinese members to think about this. We aren't paid to defend China, so why do we do it? The answer is simple we like Chinese people. But when Chinese members fall into the trap of these fools (Pakistani's) and attack Pakistan and Muslim's then they are embarrassing China and its Govt. Chinese people throughout history have used logic and reasoning in a debate, so when some members use insults then they are not practising their own culture.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Brainsucker said:


> Oh, don't forget the word "Commie". Previously only American and Western Countries use this insult to China. I never see Indian posters use this words either (well, as long as I know) But recently there are some members with Pakistani and other Islamic Countries banners use this words to attack China members here. I think this is also can be considered as insult.
> 
> This is why I wonder, are they really Pakistani? or False Flagger? Because It is unusual for people from Islamic Worlds nor Pakistani posters use this word. If it's true that it come from Pakistani members, then the question is, so why they even bother to ally with a Communist country then? If they can't respect China and use the western insult to their ally. And this is the reason why I posted about the fundamentally different value of Pakistan and China before.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, there are many Chinese Drunker Masters in here.  So they have to be given a time to be sobered first, before posting in the forum



Pakistan is a large country (200m) with various different points of view. Being pro- or anti-China’s is no guarantee of Pakistani-ness.

For us, Pakistan and Islam are always first. Then after this come other countries like China, Turkey, KSA,etc.

Please don’t be so offended. We have many divergent points of view in our country, however I agree insulting Chinese people with racial stereotypes is not acceptable.



Rasengan said:


> I agree. Chinese members are representing their country on this forum, thus they must educate Pakistani's on the issue of Xinjiang rather than attacking Islam. They are insulting their fellow countrymen. After all the Hui and the Uighur are Muslims and they are Chinese. Chinese = 56 ethnic groups just not Han. When they insult Muslims they are attacking all Muslim countries and I know China wants a good relationship with the Muslim world. Thank God, the CPC is more level headed than the armchair politicians. CPC is the boss so they should follow the example and wishes of their boss. Pakistan's and China's interests are aligned.



You and I agree 100% on this issue.

Regardless of all issues, China is our loyal and trustworthy friend/ally and should be accorded full respect, which they also give to us.

There are some issues which we may disagree on, but I think that all countries who want peace and security in Eurasia will be on the same page. 

There is one notable superpower and its regional slave, however, which don’t want peace in the world. It is trying to sabotage it, but it will fail.

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## Rasengan

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Pakistan is a large country (200m) with various different points of view. Being pro- or anti-China’s is no guarantee of Pakistani-ness.
> 
> For us, Pakistan and Islam are always first. Then after this come other countries like China, Turkey, KSA,etc.
> 
> Please don’t be so offended. We have many divergent points of view in our country, however I agree insulting Chinese people with racial stereotypes is not acceptable.
> 
> 
> 
> You and I agree 100% on this issue.
> 
> Regardless of all issues, China is our loyal and trustworthy friend/ally and should be accorded full respect, which they also give to us.
> 
> There are some issues which we may disagree on, but I think that all countries who want peace and security in Eurasia will be on the same page.
> 
> There is one notable superpower and its regional slave, however, which don’t want peace in the world. It is trying to sabotage it, but it will fail.



Excellent post brother

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Brainsucker said:


> Yeah, there are many Chinese Drunker Masters in here.  So they have to be given a time to be sobered first, before posting in the forum



Poster @Feng Leng does not act like most Chinese posters, he always turns every thread into Islam-bashing.

This is unusual for Chinese, as I have seen most have *no* personal hate for Islam or Muslim countries.

I have found Chinese members mostly neutral or understanding about issues faced by Islamic countries or the Islamic faith.

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## Brainsucker

Nah. I think @Feng Leng is a Chinese Posters. He uses "Feng". You know, Feng is the Chinese word of crazy. You should see his avatar. Hu Jun, a famous Chinese actor. He often get antagonist role in his shows.

At first, I felt uneasy about him too. But after I realized his avatar and his name, I just see him as a funny troll.

But, in serious way, I think he is a hardcore Communist.

If the Islamic Worlds have religion extremists like ISIS and others, China has the communist hardcores, or red guard. They worship Mao and Xi. Hate Hu Jingtao and Deng Xiaoping. I call them Red Guard, and one of them call me Deng Minion; LOL. Although I'm not a PRC Citizen.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Poster @Feng Leng does not act like most Chinese posters, he always turns every thread into Islam-bashing.
> 
> This is unusual for Chinese, as I have seen most have *no* personal hate for Islam or Muslim countries.
> 
> I have found Chinese members mostly neutral or understanding about issues faced by Islamic countries or the Islamic faith.



Their negative opinion was started with Knife Attack terrorism from some years ago. You know, Uyghur Terrorists who attack people with knife in a busy place. They killed and hurt many people because of the China overcrowded urban area. If my memory serve right, the victims can count to 50 - 100 people (dead and wounded) in each attack. (based on the news that I read some years ago).

And because Islam has a stigma of terrorism and extremist, thanks to Western Medias, They eat those propaganda and start to see Islam in negative light, specially the Extremists.

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## Kai Liu

Nilgiri said:


> Just showing plenty of brainwashing to go around for everyone lol.
> 
> One can only imagine what some of your schools teach about Japanese (there are articles about the hate indoctrination reserved for Japanese in Chinese schools anyone can look for)...and maybe about uighur "issue" as well.
> 
> *It is just amusing you drag India into here to try deflect Pakistanis away from criticizing you over Uighurs. You really think thats going to work? *
> 
> The uighur issue is entrenched in the narrative now increasingly about China here (along with chinese marriage scams in Pakistan etc)...and that is something you will just have to grapple with head on. Pointing to big baddie India simply isn't going to work anymore....in fact it will just highlight you have no effective answer for the criticism coming China's way here.


I really don't have to drag india into here to deflect Pakistanis away... These sort of argument between Pakistanis and Chinese here is not significant or minimal as compared to the hatred between indians and Pakistanis... 
And I firmly believe as we continue to develop our country and when people's lives are on par with the West, then separatism will have no role, and the religion thing will be solved naturally... We are heading toward this direction, see my post here:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/seei...-cities-towns-and-villages-like.524372/page-2








And at this moment, we will let the West media bark...

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## siegecrossbow

Brainsucker said:


> Nah. I think @Feng Leng is a Chinese Posters. He uses "Feng". You know, Feng is the Chinese word of crazy. You should see his avatar. Hu Jun, a famous Chinese actor. He often get antagonist role in his shows.



Actually, Leng Feng is the name of the character played by Wu Jing in the Wolf Warriors series. His avatar is Leng Feng from Wolf Warrior II.

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## beijingwalker

*2019 Xinjiang official promo video, welcome to Xinjiang*
*2019新疆官方旅游宣传片《新疆是个好地方》*
*



*

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## Destrius

beijingwalker said:


> *2019 Xinjiang official promo video, welcome to Xinjiang*
> *2019新疆官方旅游宣传片《新疆是个好地方》*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


Wow! Such a diverse landscape. I hope I get the chance to visit someday. 

Is there any terrorism/safety threat?


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## beijingwalker

Destrius said:


> Wow! Such a diverse landscape. I hope I get the chance to visit someday.
> 
> Is there any terrorism/safety threat?


No, don't worry, Xinjiang is the safest place in a safest country, people hitchhike a lot their, many girls travel in Xinjiang solo by hitchhiking.

Taiwan girl " I went to Xinjiang solo"


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## waz

beijingwalker said:


> Pakistan is a friendly country, but recently many Chinese poster are banned on PDF, *some Pakistani China bashers used terms like dirty Chinks, Chinese pig.*.. but they never got punished, I don't think Chinese posters would ever attack Pakistan if not terribly provoked, so I suggest the Mod can hand out punishment fairly, I know the Mod is against China over Xinjiang, but as a Mod , they represent the whole PDF community.



They were banned quickly and so far I have uncovered two such people posting under Pakistani flags who have a dangerous agenda i.e. after bashing China then resort to bashing the Pakistani army etc. 
These things take time to unravel.

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## Kai Liu

beijingwalker said:


> No, don't worry, Xinjiang is the safest place in a safest country, people hitchhike a lot their, many girls travel in Xinjiang solo by hitchhiking.
> 
> Taiwan girl " I went to Xinjiang solo"


Such a beautiful lady traveling alone in Xinjiang...... I bet she dare not walk out of her room in the super super powa country...

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang doesn't only have beautiful landscapes and sceneries, it's now a very developed region with world top class infrastructure, many central Asians go to Xinjiang to study because of better higher education standeard and facilities, many central Asian patients go to Xinjiang to be treated for better medical service.

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## Bismarck



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## Itachi

@waz @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @OsmanAli98






Ya all Chinese propagandist trolls can stop posting lies on PDF....you can't hide the truth. Better still, who would believe a bunch of people who killed tens of millions of their own to reach economic prosperity?

For all your talk of "China this" "China that"....you can't hide the skeletons in the closet.

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## beijingwalker

They accuse China of persecuting Christians, Muslima, Buddists, Falungong practitioners...but the truth is what the government tries to do is to keep the harmonious and peaceful coexistance of all cultures and religions so they don't come to each other's throats, no radicalism is allowed to all religions and atheism.

After hundreds of Han people were massacred in 2009's Urumqi riot, tens of thousands young Han people went out to the street armed with iron sticks and machetes asking for Uighur blood, the government quickly sent in police force and dispersed them and there were almost no Uighur casualties incurred, Urumqi is a heavily Han dominated city, they will kill all Uighurs if the government didn't step in and stop them, you are going to see another Rohingya in Xinjiang.

China is 95% ethnic Han and atheists domniated country, any communal violence will spell disaster for any minorities and religious groups, so Chinese government role is actually to protect the small and weaker groups and even give them a lot of preferential treatments which Han Chinese resent but could do nothing about, so you could see almost zero communal violent in China, taking the Chinese government role out of the equation and let people fight out their issues by themselves, there'll be no minorities or any religious groups in China in a week.

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## denel

Feng Leng said:


> Not only the US, Russia and China but now even the UN hates Islamism. Your days of hiding behind moderate Muslims are over. Get ready to be re-educated!


Get lost and suck Mao you imbecile. I cannot believe PDF promoting people who have severe hatred for human beings who follow a belief and have a long cultural history.

Chinese communists are carrying out a cultural and religious genocide against muslims - PERIOD.

Chinese trolls piss off and do not reply back.


This really upsets me and I do take up the cause of highlight the plight of moslems against the hands of these godless Chinese. I urge PDF members to do the same. Confront these Chinese trolls who are paid communist party cadres designed to spread their version of truth.



Itachi said:


> There simply is no terrorist problem in China. Idiots and trolls like you believe in anything the Chinese govt. put forth.
> 
> It's a legitimate separatist movement based on ethical & righteous concern. You think the same China that had no problem killing it's citizens in Tiananmen square and other massacres in it's recent history has a problem killing it's Muslim minority?


Exactly, there are chinese paid trolls on this forum. Unfortunately there are idiots who feel and spread their vicious message. It is shocking is it not, Pakistan cries for human rights in Kashmir and yet its own strategic partner is committing cultural genocide against fellow moslems. Everyone keeps quite - a few newspaper i do see are highlighting the plight.

When entire village mosques are being systematically decimated in Xinjiang in the rural areas and noone is saying a single word on it.

It is our duty as human beings to highlight their plight; by being silent we are aiding and abbetting their demise.

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## Pepsi Cola

Itachi said:


> There simply is no terrorist problem in China. Idiots and trolls like you believe in anything the Chinese govt. put forth.
> 
> It's a legitimate separatist movement based on ethical & righteous concern. You think the same China that had no problem killing it's citizens in Tiananmen square and other massacres in it's recent history has a problem killing it's Muslim minority?



No terrorism in China just like there's no terrorism in Pakistan! Islamist extremists are actually Chinese communists with long beards!

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## beijingwalker

They accuse China of persecuting Christians, Muslima, Buddists, Falungong practitioners...but the truth is what the government tries to do is to keep the harmonious and peaceful coexistance of all cultures and religions so they don't come to each other's throats, no radicalism is allowed to all religions and atheism.

After hundreds of Han people were massacred in 2009's Urumqi riot, tens of thousands young Han people went out to the street armed with iron sticks and machetes asking for Uighur blood, the government quickly sent in police force and dispersed them and there were almost no Uighur casualties incurred, Urumqi is a heavily Han dominated city, they will kill all Uighurs if the government didn't step in and stop them, you are going to see another Rohingya in Xinjiang.

China is 95% ethnic Han and atheists domniated country, any communal violence will spell disaster for any minorities and religious groups, so Chinese government role is actually to protect the small and weaker groups and even give them a lot of preferential treatments which Han Chinese resent but could do nothing about, so you could see almost zero communal violent in China, taking the Chinese government role out of the equation and let people fight out their issues by themselves, there'll be no minorities or any religious groups in China in a week.

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## Numerous

China is protecting minorities by mass imprisonment, rape, organ selling, murder, torture, drugging, trying to wipe out their religions & culture.


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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> China is protecting minorities by mass imprisonment, rape, organ selling, murder, torture, drugging, trying to wipe out their religions & culture.


You can make whatever wild claims as you want, but China won't allow citizens to take laws into their own hands like the case in many central and south Asian countries where attacks and terrorism is a fact of life that civilians have to deal with. Xinjiang is safe, peaceful , prosperous, soon will become the best developed region around the world even, I know you hate to see that , but we will keep it this way.

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## Numerous

beijingwalker said:


> You can make whatever wild claims as you want, but China won't allow citizens to take laws into their own hands like the case in many central and south Asian countries where attacks and terrorism is a fact of life that civilians have to deal with. Xinjiang is safe, peaceful , prosperous, soon will become the best developed region around the world even, I know you hate to see that , but we will keep it this way.



Oh don't worry, it's not me making the claims. It's uighurs who've made many of these claims and also a few kazakh workers who got caught up in the whole thing in east turkestan.


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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> Oh don't worry, it's not me making the claims. It's uighurs who've made many of these claims and also a few kazakh workers who got caught up in the whole thing in east turkestan.


It doesn't matter, everyone can make a claim, but we won't change a bit, it's a highly successful policy, just like the west always wants to change China into their likes, they never succeed over 70 years and now it seems that they are going to lose their global dominanence very soon.

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## Numerous

beijingwalker said:


> It doesn't matter, everyone can make a claim, but we won't change a bit, it's a highly successful policy, just like the west always wants to change China into their likes, they never succeed over 70 years and now it seems that they are going to lose their global dominanence very soon.



Don't worry, the west hate Islam as much as you guys do. Secretly they're probably jealous that they can't openly do the same oppression to Muslims lol.


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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> Don't worry, the west hate Islam as much as you guys do. Secretly they're probably jealous that they can't openly do the same oppression to Muslims lol.


OK, whatever, they are on their way out after squeezing China for so many decades. We are up and coming.

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## Arsalan 345

Feng Leng said:


> Not only the US, Russia and China but now even the UN hates Islamism. Your days of hiding behind moderate Muslims are over. Get ready to be re-educated!



From pakistani friend to this kind of behavior? Topics like religion are very sensitive topics.you can do whatever you want in your country but please don't mock Muslims.


----------



## Itachi

Chinese Commie said:


> No terrorism in China just like there's no terrorism in Pakistan! Islamist extremists are actually Chinese communists with long beards!



Terrorism in Pakistan is different than the one in China, just like it's different in India vs. Pakistan.

One is a foreign funded movement while the Uighur is a home grown movement. You can't deny it. What you can do is open threads on PDF and troll those that put forth the truth.


On topic:

Some mod has deleted two of my posts on this thread. 







When have I trolled and insulted someone? Look at these Chinese trolls and propagandists...they open 10 threads on PDF each day to showcase Uyghurs living a good and happy life.....and when someone says otherwise, they start trolling that person, his country of origin and the country he's currently living in.

Looks like the mods are taking sides too rather than accept the truth and the reality.


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> They accuse China of persecuting Christians, Muslima, Buddists, Falungong practitioners...but the truth is what the government tries to do is to keep the harmonious and peaceful coexistance of all cultures and religions so they don't come to each other's throats, no radicalism is allowed to all religions and atheism.
> 
> After hundreds of Han people were massacred in 2009's Urumqi riot, tens of thousands young Han people went out to the street armed with iron sticks and machetes asking for Uighur blood, the government quickly sent in police force and dispersed them and there were almost no Uighur casualties incurred, Urumqi is a heavily Han dominated city, they will kill all Uighurs if the government didn't step in and stop them, you are going to see another Rohingya in Xinjiang.



lol such lies...

The 2009 Urumqi Riots started _after_ the killing of 2 Uyghurs (more killed according to independent media) in the Shaoguan incident where a group of Han Chinese killed Uyghurs working in a toy factory. A Han Chinese worker at the factory even claimed to have killed 5-8 Uyghurs (very proudly; disgusting creatures).

So, after these incidents, the Urumqi _protests_ started in the Xinjiang region to protest the killings of their fellow ethnic members. Rioting began _after_ police confronted the peaceful march and started using excessive force. Han Chinese were killed after they confronted the protestors too.



beijingwalker said:


> Urumqi is a heavily Han dominated city



That is because the Chinese government _re-settled _whole Xinjiang region with Han Chinese people from outside the region so as to dilute the population of the Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities.

You can stop spreading half truths and lies on PDF. We all can use the internet to find and spread the truth.


----------



## Rasengan

I don't believe in western propaganda. Things are difficult between the Uighur and Han. But the state isn't prosecuting the Uighur's based upon religion.

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## Itachi

Rasengan said:


> I don't believe in western propaganda. Things are difficult between the Uighur and Han. But the state isn't prosecuting the Uighur's based upon religion.



This seem like "Western propaganda" too? 






Uyghurs have come out with thousands of stories of their torture within these "reeducation camps".....also, a thing to note, Hitler also called his gas camps "reeducation camps".

And you think Erdogan and the whole of Turkey are liars too??

Wake up from your dream bro......Chinese gang members have been caught in illegal prostitution....and still you think everything against China is "Western Propaganda"....they're also teaching Chinese to Baluchis...(guess why?) but not to the Punjabis/Sindhis cuz they don't matter...only the resource rich province does.

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## Rasengan

Itachi said:


> This seem like "Western propaganda" too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uyghurs have come out with thousands of stories of their torture within these "reeducation camps".....also, a thing to note, Hitler also called his gas camps "reeducation camps".
> 
> And you think Erdogan and the whole of Turkey are liars too??
> 
> Wake up from your dream bro......Chinese gang members have been caught in illegal prostitution....and still you think everything against China is "Western Propaganda"....they're also teaching Chinese to Baluchis...(guess why?) but not to the Punjabis/Sindhis cuz they don't matter...only the resource rich province does.



Have you been to China? I have several times, so I don't need to read a report from a western source like the rest the sheep who are fooled by them. Hitler never called his gas chambers as reeducation camps. The gas chambers only came into existence after the Wannsee Conference in 1942 and even that was kept secret until the Americans found a document detailing its existence. 

What does Chinese gangs have to do with the Chinese state? I can give you a dozen examples where Pakistani citizens have broken the law outside of Pakistan. Their actions don't represent the state. They are teaching Chinese across Pakistan. In fact, under Zardari's Govt they introduced it first in Sindh. I have great respect for Turkey but that doesn't mean I believe everything coming from their mouth. Things aren't great, there is definitely some social tension between the Uighur and the Han. However, it has nothing to do with religion. The Chinese state like the Pakistani state has every right to stop rebels who demand independence.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> lol such lies...
> 
> The 2009 Urumqi Riots started _after_ the killing of 2 Uyghurs (more killed according to independent media) in the Shaoguan incident where a group of Han Chinese killed Uyghurs working in a toy factory.


Did Chinese government kill the two Uighurs? It's a factory brawl which happens all the time, a Chinese worker was killed in Bangladesh recently in such a brawl, does China have to attack all Bangladeshis because of it? The killers were arrested and executed, justice was done.



Itachi said:


> You can stop spreading half truths and lies on PDF. We all can use the internet to find and spread the truth.


So you have to deal with it, all my resources are also from the internet.

Do you suggest that Chinese government shouldn't do anything and let communal violence go on , wait it out to see who wins in the end? Han will definitely win with a vast superior number.

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## TheTruth

Itachi said:


> This seem like "Western propaganda" too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uyghurs have come out with thousands of stories of their torture within these "reeducation camps".....also, a thing to note, Hitler also called his gas camps "reeducation camps".
> 
> And you think Erdogan and the whole of Turkey are liars too??
> 
> Wake up from your dream bro......Chinese gang members have been caught in illegal prostitution....and still you think everything against China is "Western Propaganda"....they're also teaching Chinese to Baluchis...(guess why?) but not to the Punjabis/Sindhis cuz they don't matter...only the resource rich province does.



All fake news from Ameribitches. lol, Vox.

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## beijingwalker

Indonesian Islamic Leader supports China over Xinjiang
Government and independent officials in Indonesia, the world’s most populous Islamic country, have dismissed assertions by the United States and human rights group that China is abusing millions of predominantly Uighur Muslims in internment camps as “*American propaganda*,” a report by an Indonesian think-tank revealed this week.
Echoing the Indonesian government’s position, Agung Danarto, a top official from one of largest Islamic organizations in Indonesia — Muhammadiyah — praised China's vocational centers aiming at combating separatism, religious extremism, and terrorism.

“The camps are great, there [the students] are given life-skills training, and so forth. They get lessons in agriculture, restaurant operation, cooking, and automotive repair,” Danarto declared after visiting Xinjiang, according to the report issued Thursday by the Institute for Policy Analysis of Conflict (IPAC).

Face of Indonesian Islam: NU, Muhammadiyah nominated for Nobel Peace Prize
https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2019/06/21/face-of-indonesian-islam-nu-muhammadiyah-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize.html

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## Brainsucker

beijingwalker said:


> Indonesian Islamic Leader supports China over Xinjiang
> Government and independent officials in Indonesia, the world’s most populous Islamic country, have dismissed assertions by the United States and human rights group that China is abusing millions of predominantly Uighur Muslims in internment camps as “*American propaganda*,” a report by an Indonesian think-tank revealed this week.
> Echoing the Indonesian government’s position, Agung Danarto, a top official from one of largest Islamic organizations in Indonesia — Muhammadiyah — praised China's vocational centers aiming at combating separatism, religious extremism, and terrorism.
> 
> “The camps are great, there [the students] are given life-skills training, and so forth. They get lessons in agriculture, restaurant operation, cooking, and automotive repair,” Danarto declared after visiting Xinjiang, according to the report issued Thursday by the Institute for Policy Analysis of Conflict (IPAC).
> 
> Face of Indonesian Islam: NU, Muhammadiyah nominated for Nobel Peace Prize
> https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2019/06/21/face-of-indonesian-islam-nu-muhammadiyah-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize.html



@Dubious bro,

Actually, Our religion organizations have sent our delegations to Xinjiang, China to seek the truth from the ground zero. And I'm sure Pakistan has also do the same. So what's Pakistan delegation said about Xinjiang?

So why use Unknown resource from the western and Turkey propaganda while Pakistan government can send their official delegation to China? Should I believe in random youtube posters that claim about re-education camp, or should I believe in my own prestigious Islamic Organization that sent their delegation to Xinjiang?

What about Pakistani posters in here? Which source that they can trust? Don't Pakistan send their own fact seeker delegation to Xinjiang? What about our Muslim Organization officials; can they trust ours or prefer to believe in Western-Propaganda?

I don't think that Turkey source can be trusted in term of Uyghur Xinjiang matter. Because they're not neutral. They have political agenda that aim to Xinjiang; that's why they call Xinjiang as East Turkistan. The matter of Uyghur should be seen from the eyes of Islamic neutral parties. Like Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, and others. So their seek finding won't have any political agenda behind them.



Rasengan said:


> Have you been to China? I have several times, so I don't need to read a report from a western source like the rest the sheep who are fooled by them. Hitler never called his gas chambers as reeducation camps. The gas chambers only came into existence after the Wannsee Conference in 1942 and even that was kept secret until the Americans found a document detailing its existence.
> 
> What does Chinese gangs have to do with the Chinese state? I can give you a dozen examples where Pakistani citizens have broken the law outside of Pakistan. Their actions don't represent the state. They are teaching Chinese across Pakistan. In fact, under Zardari's Govt they introduced it first in Sindh. I have great respect for Turkey but that doesn't mean I believe everything coming from their mouth. Things aren't great, there is definitely some social tension between the Uighur and the Han. However, it has nothing to do with religion. The Chinese state like the Pakistani state has every right to stop rebels who demand independence.




Edit : Ups, sorry @Rasengan, I wanted to quote Itachi, but wrongfully quote you instead.



Itachi said:


> This seem like "Western propaganda" too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uyghurs have come out with thousands of stories of their torture within these "reeducation camps".....also, a thing to note, Hitler also called his gas camps "reeducation camps".
> 
> And you think Erdogan and the whole of Turkey are liars too??
> 
> Wake up from your dream bro......Chinese gang members have been caught in illegal prostitution....and still you think everything against China is "Western Propaganda"....they're also teaching Chinese to Baluchis...(guess why?) but not to the Punjabis/Sindhis cuz they don't matter...only the resource rich province does.



What about you? Do you believe Indonesian Muslim Organization fact finder who go to Xinjiang themselves or American Propaganda? Do you believe a prestigious Muslim Organization official from Indonesia or Muslim Killer Country Propaganda? That's up to you.

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## Itachi

Rasengan said:


> Have you been to China?



Have you been to Xinjiang? Have you seen those internment and "reeducation camps"??



TheTruth said:


> All fake news from Ameribitches. lol, Vox.



Right....I guess the footage is "fake" also. You seem to be high or something.



Brainsucker said:


> Actually, Our religion organizations have sent our delegations to Xinjiang, China to seek the truth from the ground zero. And I'm sure Pakistan has also do the same. So what's Pakistan delegation said about Xinjiang?



lol they show you want they want you to see, not what's actually there. There are thousands of Uyghurs outside China that have detailed stories of persecution and the World Uyghur Congress was made by Uyghurs to combat such treatment by China.

All those that think there are no "internment camps", watch the whole video I posted above (Post #20) and read this article too:

*PROMINENT UYGHUR WRITER DIES AFTER BEING DEPRIVED TREATMENT IN XINJIANG INTERNMENT CAMP
*
https://www.uyghurcongress.org/en/p...prived-treatment-in-xinjiang-internment-camp/


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## TheTruth

Itachi said:


> Have you been to Xinjiang? Have you seen those internment and "reeducation camps"??



lol, what footage? It's just satellite pictures of buildings.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Have you been to Xinjiang? Have you seen those internment and "reeducation camps"??


Have you?


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## Brainsucker

Why the news from Jakarta Post, about Muhammadiyah (Indonesian Islamic Organization) officials fact finder in Xinjiang is vanish from this thread? Does the witness from Indonesian respected Islamic Organization is not worthed to be mentioned in this Xinjiang issue?

I give the benefit of the doubt to the mods in this matter. Because I trust them. Because, maybe it is unintentional act.

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## vi-va

Feng Leng said:


> Not only the US, Russia and China but now even the UN hates Islamism. Your days of hiding behind moderate Muslims are over. Get ready to be re-educated!



Hey, I don't think it's the right way to communicate with our Pakistan friends. We should understand and respect our Pakistan friend here. 

You are helping Indians and they are laughing. Don't make enemies unnecessarily.



Feng Leng said:


> Not only the US, Russia and China but now even the UN hates Islamism. Your days of hiding behind moderate Muslims are over. Get ready to be re-educated!



If Catholicism, Protestantism and Judaism are not the tags for extremism. "Islamism" should NOT be the tag for extremism. I guess it was invented by Zionist. 

Please stop using Islamism. Seriously.

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## Beast

Numerous said:


> Oh don't worry, it's not me making the claims. It's uighurs who've made many of these claims and also a few kazakh workers who got caught up in the whole thing in east turkestan.


Like this one?

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## Arsalan 345

I recommend all pakistani members to stop targeting Chinese on this Muslim issue.china has Muslim population even in Beijing.remember they are our friends and not our enemies.they helped us so many times and Muslim issue in China is Chinese internal matter.china is not a nation who can kill it's own citizens and who are we to criticize? We should look at our own country first.unity between China and Pakistan is necessary.whatever Chinese are doing in camps is their own internal matter.pakistan is not master of entire Muslim world.you guys are following this Muslim issue like it's our own issue.why you guys don't work hard like Chinese and follow their footsteps so that we can also make our country prosperous? I urge every Chinese and pakistani friend to stop arguing with each other.i respect China as a nation and China also respects us.

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## Beast

Itachi said:


> Terrorism in Pakistan is different than the one in China, just like it's different in India vs. Pakistan.
> 
> One is a foreign funded movement while the Uighur is a home grown movement. You can't deny it. What you can do is open threads on PDF and troll those that put forth the truth.
> 
> 
> On topic:
> 
> Some mod has deleted two of my posts on this thread.
> 
> View attachment 566239
> 
> 
> When have I trolled and insulted someone? Look at these Chinese trolls and propagandists...they open 10 threads on PDF each day to showcase Uyghurs living a good and happy life.....and when someone says otherwise, they start trolling that person, his country of origin and the country he's currently living in.
> 
> Looks like the mods are taking sides too rather than accept the truth and the reality.


Acting innocent? I can bet your post delete are fill with personal insult and generalise whole Chinese, full with vulgarity.



Arsalan 345 said:


> I recommend all pakistani members to stop targeting Chinese on this Muslim issue.china has Muslim population even in Beijing.remember they are our friends and not our enemies.they helped us so many times and Muslim issue in China is Chinese internal matter.china is not a nation who can kill it's own citizens and who are we to criticize? We should look at our own country first.unity between China and Pakistan is necessary.whatever Chinese are doing in camps is their own internal matter.pakistan is not master of entire Muslim world.you guys are following this Muslim issue like it's our own issue.why you guys don't work hard like Chinese and follow their footsteps so that we can also make our country prosperous? I urge every Chinese and pakistani friend to stop arguing with each other.i respect China as a nation and China also respects us.


They are some too dumb to fall into American trick. The American who doing all means to destroy pakistan and China are having a good laugh when they see these replies from us fighting each other instead of generating the energy on fighting US imperialism.

@waz @Dubious 

Please move this thread under the consolidation of xinjiang thread

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/all-...c-in-here-please.621888/page-25#post-11553398

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## Dubious

Feng Leng said:


> *China says reached 'broad consensus' with U.N. after Xinjiang visit*
> 
> BEIJING (Reuters) - China and the United Nations have reached a “broad consensus” about counter-terror work, China’s Foreign Ministry said on Sunday after a controversial visit by a senior U.N. official to the restive far western Chinese region of Xinjiang this week.
> 
> The United States and other western countries objected to a visit by the U.N. counterterrorism chief to Xinjiang, where U.N. experts say some one million ethnic Uighurs and other Muslims are held in detention centers.
> 
> Diplomats said that along with the United States several other countries, including Britain, complained about the trip of Vladimir Voronkov, a veteran Russian diplomat who heads the U.N. Counterterrorism Office.
> 
> U.S. Deputy Secretary of State John Sullivan spoke with U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres on Friday “to convey deep concerns” about Voronkov’s trip because “Beijing continues to paint its repressive campaign against Uighurs and other Muslims as legitimate counterterrorism efforts when it is not”.
> 
> In a brief statement, China’s Foreign Ministry said that Voronkov had visited Beijing and Xinjiang from June 13-15, meeting senior diplomats including Vice Foreign Minister Le Yucheng.
> 
> The two sides “had a deep exchange of views on the international counter-terrorism situation and counter-terrorism cooperation between China and the United Nations, and reached a broad consensus”, the ministry said, without giving details.
> 
> China and the world need to stand together to fight terror, and China supports the work of the United Nations Counter-Terrorism Office, the statement added.
> 
> China has been condemned internationally for setting up the detention complexes, which it describes as “education training centers” helping to stamp out extremism and give people new skills.
> 
> Voronkov visited Xinjiang before U.N. human rights chief Michelle Bachelet, who has repeatedly pushed China to grant the United Nations access to investigate reports of disappearances and arbitrary detentions, particularly of Muslims in Xinjiang.
> 
> Guterres raised the plight of Muslims in China’s Xinjiang region with the Chinese government’s top diplomat, State Councillor Wang Yi, during a visit to Beijing in April.
> 
> Chinese President Xi Jinping has been in the Central Asian state of Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan over the past few days, where he has spoken of the importance of fighting extremism and terror.
> 
> *As part of Belt and Road, we will help countries built re-education camps for militant Islamists. Let one hundred flowers bloom!*


This is a very vague article at best it doesn't tell anything! Please also provide the source and the poor author who wrote it!

Thank you

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## rott

Numerous said:


> " *As part of Belt and Road, we will help countries built re-education camps for militant Islamists. Let one hundred flowers bloom! *"
> 
> Remember that the chinese even throw people in these camps for wanting to wear niqab. Will we be sending Imran Khan's wife to a camp?
> 
> These aren't camps for militants. These are camps for normal Muslims. The soviets waged a war against Islam in central asia, the chinese communists are simply taking on the role.


You should give up religion. It's a fucking disease to humanity.

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## Dubious

Brainsucker said:


> @Dubious Let me tell you one thing about graveyard in chinese mind, that you dont know because of different culture and belief.
> 
> Why there is no graveyard in the city? He is not wrong. because chinese believe in feng shui and graveyard is bad for fengshui. Thats why no developer will build a city near graveyard
> 
> Oh no. This is why i hate using smartphone to open pdf. Wrong quote and triple post because of bad connectiom.
> 
> Sorry pan. I supposed to quote @Dubious
> 
> Edit : Ok, I have edit it via my laptop.


So is the article wrong?


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## Dubious

Beast said:


> Acting innocent? I can bet your post delete are fill with personal insult and generalise whole Chinese, full with vulgarity.
> 
> 
> They are some too dumb to fall into American trick. The American who doing all means to destroy pakistan and China are having a good laugh when they see these replies from us fighting each other instead of generating the energy on fighting US imperialism.
> 
> @waz @Dubious
> 
> Please move this thread under the consolidation of xinjiang thread
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/all-...c-in-here-please.621888/page-25#post-11553398


I will do that later ....unless some other mod does it



rott said:


> You should give up religion. It's a fucking disease to humanity.


Kindly don't troll...civilised people don't talk like that...

If you dont like something keep your opinion to yourself and stop spreading hatred it is reason enough to get you banned
Kindly mind it

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## Beast

Itachi said:


> lol such lies...
> 
> The 2009 Urumqi Riots started _after_ the killing of 2 Uyghurs (more killed according to independent media) in the Shaoguan incident where a group of Han Chinese killed Uyghurs working in a toy factory. A Han Chinese worker at the factory even claimed to have killed 5-8 Uyghurs (very proudly; disgusting creatures).
> 
> So, after these incidents, the Urumqi _protests_ started in the Xinjiang region to protest the killings of their fellow ethnic members. Rioting began _after_ police confronted the peaceful march and started using excessive force. Han Chinese were killed after they confronted the protestors too.
> 
> 
> 
> That is because the Chinese government _re-settled _whole Xinjiang region with Han Chinese people from outside the region so as to dilute the population of the Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities.
> 
> You can stop spreading half truths and lies on PDF. We all can use the internet to find and spread the truth.


American Pakistanis... How much CIA or white American feeds you with misinfo? True Pakistanis never trust this overseas pakistanis. They are holding US passport while bragging loyalty for Pakistan. 

Who recognized Jerusalem as capital of Israel? Its US and not China. The one destroying islam worldwide is American.


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

Mohrenn said:


> Can somebody find a more nuanced, effective and smart solution to the terrorist problem than China's one ? China has the Xinjiang région just next to major terrorist centers like Afghanistan and Northern Pakistan, and that's on top of the separatists, and that's on top of the fact that the CIA would love to exploit that to destabilize China. And yet the province is stable and developing rapidly. China uses carrots and sticks, whereas the US tried it with only military actions and it failed horribly everytime they tried. China's solution is not only much more civilized and human but also much more effective.



Hello, ignorant person 
Northern Pakistan has been the most peaceful region in all of south Asia. This just shows your knowledge about the whole situation



rott said:


> You should give up religion. It's a fucking disease to humanity.


You should Stop breathing while your at it. @WebMaster @waz



Beast said:


> Acting innocent? I can bet your post delete are fill with personal insult and generalise whole Chinese, full with vulgarity.
> 
> 
> They are some too dumb to fall into American trick. The American who doing all means to destroy pakistan and China are having a good laugh when they see these replies from us fighting each other instead of generating the energy on fighting US imperialism.
> 
> @waz @Dubious
> 
> Please move this thread under the consolidation of xinjiang thread
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/all-...c-in-here-please.621888/page-25#post-11553398


Oh plz. A Pakistani questioning what's going on doesnt make him an idiot, brainwashed by the west. I know it's hard for you to grasp the idea of free thought, knowing the situation of the country you live in.



Dubious said:


> I will do that later ....unless some other mod does it
> 
> 
> Kindly don't troll...civilised people don't talk like that...
> 
> If you dont like something keep your opinion to yourself and stop spreading hatred it is reason enough to get you banned
> Kindly mind it


Why so lenient, huh?

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## Beast

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Oh plz. A Pakistani questioning what's going on doesnt make him an idiot, brainwashed by the west. I know it's hard for you to grasp the idea of free thought, knowing the situation of the country you live in.



Fake Pakistanis. What Pakistan do doesn't concern you. You have no right to speak for Pakistan. Go speak for your Canada.


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## Brainsucker

Dubious said:


> So is the article wrong?



I didn't say that the article is right or wrong. I just said that I quote a wrong guy. Pan-Pakistan at that post. So I felt sorry to him 

And I was not talking about any article. I talked about the Chinese poster with Han Zi (Chinese word ) Nickname. That his perspective about graveyard was based on his Chinese Culture. Like how Chinese developer don't like to build next to Graveyard. I just want to inform about his post from Chinese perspective, to avoid miss understanding because of Culture difference.

Of course, Chinese tradition doesn't apply to CCP. If they want to build houses at the top of graveyard, they will do that.

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## Rasengan

Brainsucker said:


> @Dubious bro,
> 
> 
> Edit : Ups, sorry @Rasengan, I wanted to quote Itachi, but wrongfully quote you instead.
> 
> 
> .



No problem.



Itachi said:


> Have you been to Xinjiang? Have you seen those internment and "reeducation camps"??



I have been to Xinjiang. Most of the bureaucracy and police force is Uighur. I have never been to a camp but I also don't believe a million people have been locked up inside a camp. That would be a logistical nightmare. Besides officials from 10 different countries have visited these camps and they gave the green signal. I'm not denying there's no social tension between the Uighur and Han, but it's not sanctioned by the state.

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## Beast

Rasengan said:


> No problem.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been to Xinjiang. Most of the bureaucracy and police force is Uighur. I have never been to a camp but I also don't believe a million people have been locked up inside a camp. That would be a logistical nightmare. Besides officials from 10 different countries have visited these camps and they gave the green signal. I'm not denying there's no social tension between the Uighur and Han, but it's not sanctioned by the state.


Those overseas Pakistanis on the order of their adopted master try desperate to stir trouble for Pakistan. Do they really care about Pakistan? They care more about their adopted countries. They dont care about right or wrong. They only meant to serve their own agenda.

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## rott

Dubious said:


> I will do that later ....unless some other mod does it
> 
> 
> Kindly don't troll...civilised people don't talk like that...
> 
> If you dont like something keep your opinion to yourself and stop spreading hatred it is reason enough to get you banned
> Kindly mind it


Not trolling. I am a Christian but I give two fucks to religion. I believe Jesus was just a man and not a God. We've been fooled for too long into believe someone who fooled us. Today's magician will make Jesus look like an ordinary man.
My reply above @Pakhtoon yum


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## rott

beijingwalker said:


> How come? China maybe wronged some countries in the past but China has never wronged Pakistan during the whole course of the history.


Some Pakistanis are radical islamist. They are born with religion inbred in them and are extremist. They place religion even before their family let alone their country. They should just go join the ISIS. Yes, that's the correct way to describe them.


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## Dubious

rott said:


> Not trolling. I am a Christian but I give two fucks to religion. I believe Jesus was just a man and not a God. We've been fooled for too long into believe someone who fooled us. Today's magician will make Jesus look like an ordinary man.
> My reply above @Pakhtoon yum


Good for you....Now, like you dont care about religion, who should bother abt what you care for?

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## Pakhtoon yum

Beast said:


> Fake Pakistanis. What Pakistan do doesn't concern you. You have no right to speak for Pakistan. Go speak for your Canada.


I'm a Pakistani citizen, I have full right to speak and do. This also gives me full rights to voting again and alien concept to you. 
@OsmanAli98 @Nilgiri @Well.wisher @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan 
Apprently, according to him I'm fake



rott said:


> Not trolling. I am a Christian but I give two fucks to religion. I believe Jesus was just a man and not a God. We've been fooled for too long into believe someone who fooled us. Today's magician will make Jesus look like an ordinary man.
> My reply above @Pakhtoon yum


I didnt ask for you background story, that your opinion and it's just that. Why do Chinese find the concept of others culture so hard to digest? There is a thing called respect. Learn it

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## rott

Pakhtoon yum said:


> I'm a Pakistani citizen, I have full right to speak and do. This also gives me full rights to voting again and alien concept to you.
> @OsmanAli98 @Nilgiri @Well.wisher @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan
> Apprently, according to him I'm fake
> 
> 
> I didnt ask for you background story, that your opinion and it's just that. Why do Chinese find the concept of others culture so hard to digest? There is a thing called respect. Learn it


Are we talking about culture? Look, you're getting yourself confused. I hope you know the difference between culture and religion.
I first responded to you about religion and you're talking about culture. Wow.. Just wow...



Dubious said:


> Good for you....Now, like you dont care about religion, who should bother abt what you care for?


Then why bother to even reply? I thought you didn't care.


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## Mohrenn

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Hello, ignorant person
> Northern Pakistan has been the most peaceful region in all of south Asia. This just shows your knowledge about the whole situation
> 
> 
> You should Stop breathing while your at it. @WebMaster @waz
> 
> 
> Oh plz. A Pakistani questioning what's going on doesnt make him an idiot, brainwashed by the west. I know it's hard for you to grasp the idea of free thought, knowing the situation of the country you live in.
> 
> 
> Why so lenient, huh?



Lmao what a joke, I know the situation better than you ever will and I know that Northern Pakistan is one of the center of terrorism.


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## Pakhtoon yum

Mohrenn said:


> Lmao what a joke, I know the situation better than you ever will and I know that Northern Pakistan is one of the center of terrorism.


@Dubious @waz @Horus this guy is spreading propaganda

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## Dubious

Pakhtoon yum said:


> You should Stop breathing while your at it.


Mind your language child! Irrespective of what and how people approach a problem...I want YOU in your best behaviour!



rott said:


> Then why bother to even reply? I thought you didn't care


I do care about the direction this thread is going due to your insecurities 



Pakhtoon yum said:


> Why so lenient, huh?


Because you people are just fighting like idiots on nothing! And being an idiot is not a punishable crime [unfortunately]

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## Pakhtoon yum

rott said:


> Are we talking about culture? Look, you're getting yourself confused. I hope you know the difference between culture and religion.
> I first responded to you about religion and you're talking about culture. Wow.. Just wow...
> 
> 
> Then why bother to even reply? I thought you didn't care.


Concept of religion and culture falls on the same moral principles

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## Itachi

TheTruth said:


> lol, what footage? It's just satellite pictures of buildings.



Guess you didn't even watch the whole video, what can I expect from a troll?



beijingwalker said:


> Have you?



I asked the question first, have you?



Brainsucker said:


> Why the news from Jakarta Post, about Muhammadiyah (Indonesian Islamic Organization) officials fact finder in Xinjiang is vanish from this thread? Does the witness from Indonesian respected Islamic Organization is not worthed to be mentioned in this Xinjiang issue?
> 
> I give the benefit of the doubt to the mods in this matter. Because I trust them. Because, maybe it is unintentional act.



Because we don't follow paid actors or back bending servants.



viva_zhao said:


> If Catholicism, Protestantism and Judaism are not the tags for extremism. "Islamism" should NOT be the tag for extremism. I guess it was invented by Zionist.
> 
> Please stop using Islamism. Seriously.



Right, finally a Chinese poster that knows what he's talking about and makes sense...

There is no such thing as "Islamism" or "Islamic Terrorism"....terrorism is terrorism...it has no religion....anyone saying otherwise is trying to paint a group.

Plus, the Uyghurs have the right to self-defense, their ancestral region is under scrutiny from PRC and thousands are in detention camps just because they follow a particular religion.

PRC have also been importing Han Chinese into Xinjiang for decades, trying to dilute the population and representation of the Uyghurs.



Arsalan 345 said:


> I recommend all pakistani members to stop targeting Chinese on this Muslim issue.china has Muslim population even in Beijing.remember they are our friends and not our enemies.they helped us so many times and Muslim issue in China is Chinese internal matter.china is not a nation who can kill it's own citizens and who are we to criticize? We should look at our own country first.unity between China and Pakistan is necessary.whatever Chinese are doing in camps is their own internal matter.pakistan is not master of entire Muslim world.you guys are following this Muslim issue like it's our own issue.why you guys don't work hard like Chinese and follow their footsteps so that we can also make our country prosperous? I urge every Chinese and pakistani friend to stop arguing with each other.i respect China as a nation and China also respects us.



lol keep bending the knee...

While you brothers and sisters are being forced to eat pork, shave their beards, not wear hijab, their mosques get demolished and they're put in detention camps just because they follow Islam much better than you or me.

It's people like you who don't act at the proper time that leads to the persecution of Muslims, may those be Palestinians, Kashmiris, Rohingya or Uyghurs.



Beast said:


> Acting innocent? I can bet your post delete are fill with personal insult and generalise whole Chinese, full with vulgarity.



Post any posts of mine that have any insult against anyone....I'm not a troll. I'm just demolishing the half-truths and lies spread on PDF.



Rasengan said:


> I have never been to a camp but I also don't believe a million people have been locked up inside a camp. That would be a logistical nightmare.



I guess locking up Jews was also a logistical nightmare...

It has been done and is being done...thousands of Uyghurs have come out and talked about it. They have even setup their own Congress outside of China to spread the news about their persecution.

Here, there are multiple articles on their site: https://www.uyghurcongress.org/en/

And this:

*PROMINENT UYGHUR WRITER DIES AFTER BEING DEPRIVED TREATMENT IN XINJIANG INTERNMENT CAMP*

https://www.uyghurcongress.org/en/p...prived-treatment-in-xinjiang-internment-camp/



Rasengan said:


> Besides officials from 10 different countries have visited these camps and they gave the green signal.



If you can backup this claim with a link, that would be appreciated.



Rasengan said:


> 'm not denying there's no social tension between the Uighur and Han, but it's not sanctioned by the state.



Right....I guess the PRC didn't move millions of Han Chinese to Xinjiang over the last decade so that they could dilute the Uyghur pop. right? 

It must be for nicer reasons? 

Just like the British moving their people to the Americas to outsettle the Native Americans. 

Oh and did you also know that most Uyghur in Xinjiang and the rest of China occupy low/mid paying jobs while the Han occupy mid/high paying ones? Even in their own region! 

Did you see that too in your visit or not? Maybe the Han Chinese tourist guide only showed you the "good parts" of the region/city.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

rott said:


> Some Pakistanis are radical islamist. They are born with religion inbred in them and are extremist. They place religion even before their family let alone their country. They should just go join the ISIS. Yes, that's the correct way to describe them.



Kindly, mind your own business.

If you do not understand or believe Islam, don’t speak about our faith.

This is why Pakistanis are skeptical, when Chinese abuse Islam it confirms Western propaganda that you are anti-Islam.

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## Yankee-stani

Threads been derailed anyways should be closed the CPC is more rational actor than the members here

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Beast said:


> Fake Pakistanis. What Pakistan do doesn't concern you. You have no right to speak for Pakistan. Go speak for your Canada.



Our Pukhtoon brothers are part and parcel of this country since the beginning of Pakistan, and fought with us in every war against our enemies.

Don’t insult our patriotic brother. We Pakistanis are one and the same.

We may have different opinions about China, but *you are not the one to decide who is a real Pakistani.*

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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Our Pukhtoon brothers are part and parcel of this country since the beginning of Pakistan, and fought with us in every war against our enemies.
> 
> Don’t insult our patriotic brother. We Pakistanis are one and the same.
> 
> We may have different opinions about China, but *you are not the one to decide who is a real Pakistani.*



Different individuals have differing opinions on countries fo example I despise Saudi Arabia(leadership some of its people)and UAE tho lot of my countrymen lie them opinions vary at end of the its a fourm

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

OsmanAli98 said:


> Different individuals have differing opinions on countries fo example I despis Saudi Arabia(leadership some of its people)and UAE tho lot of my countrymen lie them opinions vary at end of the its a fourm



It doesn’t matter about your opinion about any other country, as long as you are a patriotic Pakistan, this is all that matters.

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## vi-va

Itachi said:


> Right, finally a Chinese poster that knows what he's talking about and makes sense...
> 
> There is no such thing as "Islamism" or "Islamic Terrorism"....terrorism is terrorism...it has no religion....anyone saying otherwise is trying to paint a group.
> 
> Plus, the Uyghurs have the right to self-defense, their ancestral region is under scrutiny from PRC and thousands are in detention camps just because they follow a particular religion.
> 
> PRC have also been importing Han Chinese into Xinjiang for decades, trying to dilute the population and representation of the Uyghurs.



You live in US, I live in US.* I knew our Han Chinese history in Xinjiang back to 200 BC. *

I respect Pakistan, the history, the culture. I respect Pakistanis from bottom of my heart. Please show your respect.

If you just read some western propaganda, I suggest you read Chinese history first then we can talk rationally. 

The western propaganda is poison. India is flattering US hard right now, and both India and US want to separate Pakistan and China alliance. After that they can isolate Pakistan and will try to install a regime they like.

I disgust the hypocrisy in western propaganda. US and India don't care Muslim's lives at all. You knew that.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

viva_zhao said:


> You live in US, I live in US.* I knew our Han Chinese history in Xinjiang back to 200 BC. *
> 
> I respect Pakistan, the history, the culture. I respect Pakistanis from bottom of my heart. Please show your respect.
> 
> If you just read some western propaganda, I suggest you read Chinese history first then we can talk rationally.
> 
> The western propaganda is poison. India is flattering US hard right now, and both India and US want to separate Pakistan and China alliance. After that they can isolate Pakistan and will try to install a regime they like.
> 
> I disgust the hypocrisy in western propaganda. US and India don't care Muslim's lives at all. You knew that.



We need more Chinese members like you here who can talk rationally and calmly about Pakistan, Islam, and Muslims.

Please keep it up friend.



Vast majority of the Islamic world is thoroughly supportive of China’s as we are sick of the unipolar world.

Islamic-China alliance will be the future of the world, we can build our societies in peace and security.

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## vi-va

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> We need more Chinese members like you here who can talk rationally and calmly about Pakistan, Islam, and Muslims.
> 
> Please keep it up friend.
> 
> 
> 
> Vast majority of the Islamic world is thoroughly supportive of China’s as we are sick of the unipolar world.
> 
> Islamic-China alliance will be the future of the world, we can build our societies in peace and security.



Agree!

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## Rasengan

Itachi said:


> I guess locking up Jews was also a logistical nightmare...



Please make an appointment with a history teacher. Locking up Jews was a logistical nightmare hence why they came up with the extermination plan in 1942. Honestly, the schools in America must be crap. The same analogy can be used in this case. China can't house 20% of the population inside camps unless they are prepared to kill them on a mass scale as the Nazi's did to the Jews. This isn't rocket science its common sense. Furthermore, such widespread massacres if true would have led to an uprising in Xinjiang like the Jews did in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising in 1943. Even the Israeli's who have oppressed the Palestinians couldn't have stopped an uprising like the Intifada. 




Itachi said:


> It has been done and is being done...thousands of Uyghurs have come out and talked about it. They have even setup their own Congress outside of China to spread the news about their persecution.
> 
> Here, there are multiple articles on their site: https://www.uyghurcongress.org/en/
> 
> And this:
> 
> *PROMINENT UYGHUR WRITER DIES AFTER BEING DEPRIVED TREATMENT IN XINJIANG INTERNMENT CAMP*
> 
> https://www.uyghurcongress.org/en/p...prived-treatment-in-xinjiang-internment-camp/



You want me to respect the opinion of an organization whose leader Rabiya Kadeer was funding and supporting the East Turkistan movement? This disgusting woman was a politician in China and was one of the wealthiest individuals in the entire country, yet she took advantage of that and was backstabbing China. Then to piss off the Chinese she went to Japan and visited the Yasukuni Shrine. Only a disgusting person would pay homage to that shrine and disregard its history. The website doesn't work. There's a big difference between me and you. I only care about Pakistan's interests while you want to police the world by getting Pakistan to tangle with its next-door neighbour who for your kind information is our best ally. I have written this a dozen times, but I will do it again especially for you. Anyone who wants independence needs to be dealt with......simple no questions asked....just like those BLA cockroaches. 

But those who don't then China must do a better job to integrate the communities. This is the Govt's responsibility and they have done a poor job, I have never denied this, but under no circumstance am I going to accuse China of state oppression based upon religion....it doesn't exist. 




Itachi said:


> If you can backup this claim with a link, that would be appreciated.




https://time.com/5496435/china-12-diplomats-tour-xinjiang/




Itachi said:


> Right....I guess the PRC didn't move millions of Han Chinese to Xinjiang over the last decade so that they could dilute the Uyghur pop. right?
> 
> It must be for nicer reasons?
> 
> Just like the British moving their people to the Americas to outsettle the Native Americans.
> 
> Oh and did you also know that most Uyghur in Xinjiang and the rest of China occupy low/mid paying jobs while the Han occupy mid/high paying ones? Even in their own region!
> 
> Did you see that too in your visit or not? Maybe the Han Chinese tourist guide only showed you the "good parts" of the region/city.



The Chinese have been migrating to Xinjiang in large numbers since 1954 when Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps was set up in the region. Xinjiang belongs to China, so every citizen has a right to move into the region. Can someone from Washington migrate to New York? If so, then why the double standards for China. When Deng Xiaoping made those economic zones in the coastal regions, millions of Chinese migrated to those regions from all over the country. You don't hear the locals complaining. This migration is so large that in the holiday season of Chinese New Year 600 million people travel back to their homes. 

The British stole land from the Native American's while Xinjiang belongs to China since the Qing dynasty. That's like saying no Punjabi should have the right in the future to move to Balochistan, in particular, Gwadar to look for a job because he's not from the region. I'm not denying there aren't any social problems in Xinjiang. Did you notice the difference between me and you? I will call on the Chinese Govt when they do wrong, but I won't accuse them with a false charge. The Govt needs to do more, but the Uighur's aren't employed in high paying jobs because of the exemptions they get in Universities. Han employers don't regard them as skilled workers. This is wrong and it needs to change. Why do you think my tour guide was Han? You do know there are 56 ethnic groups in China

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## Nilgiri

Beast said:


> Fake Pakistanis. What Pakistan do doesn't concern you. You have no right to speak for Pakistan. Go speak for your Canada.



Who are you to declare who is real or fake Pakistani? That is for Pakistanis to decide.

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## vi-va

Rasengan said:


> Please make an appointment with a history teacher. Locking up Jews was a logistical nightmare hence why they came up with the extermination plan in 1942. Honestly, the schools in America must be crap. The same analogy can be used in this case. China can't house 20% of the population inside camps unless they are prepared to kill them on a mass scale as the Nazi's did to the Jews. This isn't rocket science its common sense. Furthermore, such widespread massacres if true would have led to an uprising in Xinjiang like the Jews did in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising in 1943. Even the Israeli's who have oppressed the Palestinians couldn't have stopped an uprising like the Intifada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want me to respect the opinion of an organization whose leader Rabiya Kadeer was funding and supporting the East Turkistan movement? This disgusting woman was a politician in China and was one of the wealthiest individuals in the entire country, yet she took advantage of that and was backstabbing China. Then to piss off the Chinese she went to Japan and visited the Yasukuni Shrine. Only a disgusting person would pay homage to that shrine and disregard its history. The website doesn't work. There's a big difference between me and you. I only care about Pakistan's interests while you want to police the world by getting Pakistan to tangle with its next-door neighbour who for your kind information is our best ally. I have written this a dozen times, but I will do it again especially for you. Anyone who wants independence needs to be dealt with......simple no questions asked....just like those BLA cockroaches.
> 
> But those who don't then China must do a better job to integrate the communities. This is the Govt's responsibility and they have done a poor job, I have never denied this, but under no circumstance am I going to accuse China of state oppression based upon religion....it doesn't exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://time.com/5496435/china-12-diplomats-tour-xinjiang/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Chinese have been migrating to Xinjiang in large numbers since 1954 when Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps was set up in the region. Xinjiang belongs to China, so every citizen has a right to move into the region. Can someone from Washington migrate to New York? If so, then why the double standards for China. When Deng Xiaoping made those economic zones in the coastal regions, millions of Chinese migrated to those regions from all over the country. You don't hear the locals complaining. This migration is so large that in the holiday season of Chinese New Year 600 million people travel back to their homes.
> 
> The British stole land from the Native American's while Xinjiang belongs to China since the Qing dynasty. That's like saying no Punjabi should have the right in the future to move to Balochistan, in particular, Gwadar to look for a job because he's not from the region. I'm not denying there aren't any social problems in Xinjiang. Did you notice the difference between me and you? I will call on the Chinese Govt when they do wrong, but I won't accuse them with a false charge. The Govt needs to do more, but the Uighur's aren't employed in high paying jobs because of the exemptions they get in Universities. Han employers don't regard them as skilled workers. This is wrong and it needs to change. Why do you think my tour guide was Han? You do know there are 56 ethnic groups in China



You are patriotic, rational and honest man. I like how you explain the complex situation to Pakistanis who don't familiar with China Muslim. China gov should hire you as a friendship bridge between Pakistanis and Chinese. 

You are real patriotic and do the right thing to defend Pakistan's national interest. I can see that you knew quite a lot about China, history, social and politics.

You are honest man. You do see our flaws and point it out. China is developing country, we have a lot of critical problems just like 100+ developing ones. 

China is trying hard to resolve our problems, but the western propaganda won't stop discrediting China. Never!

Thank you, my Pakistani friends for your understanding. Appreciate!

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## Arsalan 345

Itachi said:


> Guess you didn't even watch the whole video, what can I expect from a troll?
> 
> 
> 
> I asked the question first, have you?
> 
> 
> 
> Because we don't follow paid actors or back bending servants.
> 
> 
> 
> Right, finally a Chinese poster that knows what he's talking about and makes sense...
> 
> There is no such thing as "Islamism" or "Islamic Terrorism"....terrorism is terrorism...it has no religion....anyone saying otherwise is trying to paint a group.
> 
> Plus, the Uyghurs have the right to self-defense, their ancestral region is under scrutiny from PRC and thousands are in detention camps just because they follow a particular religion.
> 
> PRC have also been importing Han Chinese into Xinjiang for decades, trying to dilute the population and representation of the Uyghurs.
> 
> 
> 
> lol keep bending the knee...
> 
> While you brothers and sisters are being forced to eat pork, shave their beards, not wear hijab, their mosques get demolished and they're put in detention camps just because they follow Islam much better than you or me.
> 
> It's people like you who don't act at the proper time that leads to the persecution of Muslims, may those be Palestinians, Kashmiris, Rohingya or Uyghurs.
> 
> 
> 
> Post any posts of mine that have any insult against anyone....I'm not a troll. I'm just demolishing the half-truths and lies spread on PDF.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess locking up Jews was also a logistical nightmare...
> 
> It has been done and is being done...thousands of Uyghurs have come out and talked about it. They have even setup their own Congress outside of China to spread the news about their persecution.
> 
> Here, there are multiple articles on their site: https://www.uyghurcongress.org/en/
> 
> And this:
> 
> *PROMINENT UYGHUR WRITER DIES AFTER BEING DEPRIVED TREATMENT IN XINJIANG INTERNMENT CAMP*
> 
> https://www.uyghurcongress.org/en/p...prived-treatment-in-xinjiang-internment-camp/
> 
> 
> 
> If you can backup this claim with a link, that would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> Right....I guess the PRC didn't move millions of Han Chinese to Xinjiang over the last decade so that they could dilute the Uyghur pop. right?
> 
> It must be for nicer reasons?
> 
> Just like the British moving their people to the Americas to outsettle the Native Americans.
> 
> Oh and did you also know that most Uyghur in Xinjiang and the rest of China occupy low/mid paying jobs while the Han occupy mid/high paying ones? Even in their own region!
> 
> Did you see that too in your visit or not? Maybe the Han Chinese tourist guide only showed you the "good parts" of the region/city.



You know nothing.you live in america.you have no idea.china Pakistan relations are strong.you know nothing about religion.

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## Brainsucker

Itachi said:


> Because we don't follow paid actors or back bending servants.



Are you saying that Indonesian prestigious Islamic Organization is a paid actor or back bending servants? @Dubious, @waz, what do you think about this? Is this a act of mocking Indonesian Islamic Organization? Is he saying that our Islamic Organization is fake? What do you think about this?

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## Dubious

Brainsucker said:


> Why the news from Jakarta Post, about Muhammadiyah (Indonesian Islamic Organization) officials fact finder in Xinjiang is vanish from this thread? Does the witness from Indonesian respected Islamic Organization is not worthed to be mentioned in this Xinjiang issue?
> 
> I give the benefit of the doubt to the mods in this matter. Because I trust them. Because, maybe it is unintentional act.


I dont know about this...I rarely handle issues outside Pakistan and I dont know enough about the issue to even comment on it!

Enlighten me...

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Arsalan 345 said:


> You know nothing.you live in america.you have no idea.china Pakistan relations are strong.you know nothing about religion.



Actually he is both a patriotic Pakistani and orthodox religious Muslim.

We may disagree about this issue with China with him, but please don’t assume the worst about our compatriot.

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## ARMalik

rott said:


> Are we talking about culture? Look, you're getting yourself confused. I hope you know the difference between culture and religion.
> I first responded to you about religion and you're talking about culture. Wow.. Just wow...
> 
> 
> Then why bother to even reply? I thought you didn't care.



Couple of things:

1- China is a communist country and its citizens *until very recently did not even know what Religions were*. Hence you and other Chinese do not qualify to lecture others on religion cause you guys don't even know the *ABC of religions *!  If you knew you would have know that *Muslim Culture *is the same as its Religion since *the religion dictates the 'Culture for a Muslim'!!* But then I don't blame *clueless *people like you since you are simply ignorant!! 

2- Then there is another really important aspect that Chinese should never open their mouths on - and it is called *Democracy and free speech*. You guys live in a One Party Communist state. You need to look really hard at yourselves in mirror before you try preaching others on Democracy.

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## Rasengan

viva_zhao said:


> You are patriotic, rational and honest man. I like how you explain the complex situation to Pakistanis who don't familiar with China Muslim. China gov should hire you as a friendship bridge between Pakistanis and Chinese.
> 
> You are real patriotic and do the right thing to defend Pakistan's national interest. I can see that you knew quite a lot about China, history, social and politics.
> 
> You are honest man. You do see our flaws and point it out. China is developing country, we have a lot of critical problems just like 100+ developing ones.
> 
> China is trying hard to resolve our problems, but the western propaganda won't stop discrediting China. Never!
> 
> Thank you, my Pakistani friends for your understanding. Appreciate!



Thank you, for the compliment. I was fortunate enough to meet many great Chinese friends at my University who taught me many things about China and its culture. There are always two sides to a story, and I wanted to understand the situation from China's perspective rather than the west. I'm not interested in the accounts of journalists from the west who sit in an office somewhere in Washington and make some dumb accusation. China's relationship with Pakistan which is a Muslim country was once seen before when the Tang dynasty fostered a close relationship with Abbasid Caliphate. 

No country is perfect, and China is a huge nation with a large population. Naturally, any Govt in office would face some problems. But its how you deal with those issues is the most important thing. Deng Xiaoping knew this more than anyone else when he said: "It does not matter if a cat is black or white as long as it catches mice." These words have deep meaning, they show he was a great man who challenged those who led China to a dark path (gang of four), someone who had the vision for a bright future for his people. Did this mean everything went smoothly? No. But most people on this forum have no understanding of how the Chinese behave. The Chinese are self-critical of themselves but they won't do that in front of a foreigner and degrade their Govt or country. This is why I hate someone like Rabiya Kadeer. She was a Chinese politician, made money under that system but secretly she was trying to lead an independence movement. Honour means nothing in today's world, but historically we Muslim's value this principle. Its why people like Guang Yu who refused Cao Cao's offer of becoming a general because he stood by his brother Lui Bei is remembered and he paid it with his life. 

What the Chinese Govt need's to do is bring in more development in Xinjiang, foster better ties between the Han and Uighur community. China must improve on its PR campaign. Put the Uighur issue to the side. I don't like to say this, but Beijing has done a poor job in discrediting the Tibet problem, Falun Gong and these protestors in Hong Kong. Why has this issue taken root in the western world? Its because in each University campus, people are discussing these topics and no Chinese student is participating to refute them. This was the biggest issue I had with my own friends. I use to say to them that you mustn't sit around and let them attack China. Instead, you must educate the masses on this issue. Obviously, there is a language barrier and you need confidence. 

Many Chinese members have complained that Pakistani newspapers have attacked China, but what they don't take into consideration is those newspapers have attacked the Pakistani military. Why have they done this? Because the American's have invested $200 million across media houses to speak their narrative. China must do the same. It must employ the right people in media communications.

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## beijingwalker

ARMalik said:


> Then there is another really important aspect that Chinese should never open their mouths on - and it is called *Democracy and free speech*. You guys live in a One Party Communist state. You need to look really hard at yourselves in mirror before you try preaching others on Democracy.


We couldn't care less about you internal affairs and your political system, your country you rule, and we' ll be very appreciated if you reciprocate.


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## Char

Rasengan said:


> Thank you, for the compliment. I was fortunate enough to meet many great Chinese friends at my University who taught me many things about China and its culture. There are always two sides to a story, and I wanted to understand the situation from China's perspective rather than the west. I'm not interested in the accounts of journalists from the west who sit in an office somewhere in Washington and make some dumb accusation. China's relationship with Pakistan which is a Muslim country was once seen before when the Tang dynasty fostered a close relationship with Abbasid Caliphate.
> 
> No country is perfect, and China is a huge nation with a large population. Naturally, any Govt in office would face some problems. But its how you deal with those issues is the most important thing. Deng Xiaoping knew this more than anyone else when he said: "It does not matter if a cat is black or white as long as it catches mice." These words have deep meaning, they show he was a great man who challenged those who led China to a dark path (gang of four), someone who had the vision for a bright future for his people. Did this mean everything went smoothly? No. But most people on this forum have no understanding of how the Chinese behave. The Chinese are self-critical of themselves but they won't do that in front of a foreigner and degrade their Govt or country. This is why I hate someone like Rabiya Kadeer. She was a Chinese politician, made money under that system but secretly she was trying to lead an independence movement. Honour means nothing in today's world, but historically we Muslim's value this principle. Its why people like Guang Yu who refused Cao Cao's offer of becoming a general because he stood by his brother Lui Bei is remembered and he paid it with his life.
> 
> What the Chinese Govt need's to do is bring in more development in Xinjiang, foster better ties between the Han and Uighur community. China must improve on its PR campaign. Put the Uighur issue to the side. I don't like to say this, but Beijing has done a poor job in discrediting the Tibet problem, Falun Gong and these protestors in Hong Kong. Why has this issue taken root in the western world? Its because in each University campus, people are discussing these topics and no Chinese student is participating to refute them. This was the biggest issue I had with my own friends. I use to say to them that you mustn't sit around and let them attack China. Instead, you must educate the masses on this issue. Obviously, there is a language barrier and you need confidence.
> 
> Many Chinese members have complained that Pakistani newspapers have attacked China, but what they don't take into consideration is those newspapers have attacked the Pakistani military. Why have they done this? Because the American's have invested $200 million across media houses to speak their narrative. China must do the same. It must employ the right people in media communications.



Most Chinese are blocked by Great Firewall, and the goverment officials are not prepared for the battle of propaganda.

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## Brainsucker

Char said:


> Most Chinese are blocked by Great Firewall, and the goverment officials are not prepared for the battle of propaganda.



That's China CCP weakness. They care only about Karl Marx and Mao jargon, but forget to learn psychology.

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## Hexciter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1142436919265001472

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## beijingwalker

Hexciter said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1142436919265001472


So low tech, I can make a copy of that writing about final solution to all Chinese minorities, so childish..

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## Rasengan

Char said:


> Most Chinese are blocked by Great Firewall, and the goverment officials are not prepared for the battle of propaganda.



I'm talking about Chinese student's who study abroad in western universities. Govt officials aren't prepared but then again this is there fault in choosing poor candidates. They need to change this because whether you like it or not brother its damaging China's soft image. You can't view China in isolation the modern world will not allow that as traditionally thought by Chinese.

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## TheTruth

Itachi said:


> Guess you didn't even watch the whole video, what can I expect from a troll?
> .



I watched the video. They show no evidence. Why are you so desperate to believe West/Jew lies?

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## vi-va

Rasengan said:


> Thank you, for the compliment. I was fortunate enough to meet many great Chinese friends at my University who taught me many things about China and its culture. There are always two sides to a story, and I wanted to understand the situation from China's perspective rather than the west. I'm not interested in the accounts of journalists from the west who sit in an office somewhere in Washington and make some dumb accusation. China's relationship with Pakistan which is a Muslim country was once seen before when the Tang dynasty fostered a close relationship with Abbasid Caliphate.
> 
> No country is perfect, and China is a huge nation with a large population. Naturally, any Govt in office would face some problems. But its how you deal with those issues is the most important thing. Deng Xiaoping knew this more than anyone else when he said: "It does not matter if a cat is black or white as long as it catches mice." These words have deep meaning, they show he was a great man who challenged those who led China to a dark path (gang of four), someone who had the vision for a bright future for his people. Did this mean everything went smoothly? No. But most people on this forum have no understanding of how the Chinese behave. The Chinese are self-critical of themselves but they won't do that in front of a foreigner and degrade their Govt or country. This is why I hate someone like Rabiya Kadeer. She was a Chinese politician, made money under that system but secretly she was trying to lead an independence movement. Honour means nothing in today's world, but historically we Muslim's value this principle. Its why people like Guang Yu who refused Cao Cao's offer of becoming a general because he stood by his brother Lui Bei is remembered and he paid it with his life.
> 
> What the Chinese Govt need's to do is bring in more development in Xinjiang, foster better ties between the Han and Uighur community. China must improve on its PR campaign. Put the Uighur issue to the side. I don't like to say this, but Beijing has done a poor job in discrediting the Tibet problem, Falun Gong and these protestors in Hong Kong. Why has this issue taken root in the western world? Its because in each University campus, people are discussing these topics and no Chinese student is participating to refute them. This was the biggest issue I had with my own friends. I use to say to them that you mustn't sit around and let them attack China. Instead, you must educate the masses on this issue. Obviously, there is a language barrier and you need confidence.
> 
> Many Chinese members have complained that Pakistani newspapers have attacked China, but what they don't take into consideration is those newspapers have attacked the Pakistani military. Why have they done this? Because the American's have invested $200 million across media houses to speak their narrative. China must do the same. It must employ the right people in media communications.



Can't agree more. You do have deep insight on China issues. You knew "The Three Kingdom" story, and why people worship Guan Yu because of righteousness(义). Guan Yu is brother of Liu Bei, he can't betray him for high position, money and women.

The Confucian virtues are 仁(benevolence)义(righteousness)礼(etiquette)智(wisdom)信(believe). I think we Chinese should also learn Muslim value, at least the basic value, otherwise, we can't understand our brother country - Pakistan. 

China gov did poor jobs on Info War. The Price is very high. China may improve on this, but will take a long time.

Anglo-Saxon are so good at Info War game, they even wrote book to brag their achievement. 

1999: Victory Without War : Richard Nixon

The Info War is vital for China, Pakistan and many other countries, otherwise we are doomed.

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## Rasengan

viva_zhao said:


> Can't agree more. You do have deep insight on China issues. You knew "The Three Kingdom" story, and why people worship Guan Yu because of righteousness(义). Guan Yu is brother of Liu Bei, he can't betray him for high position, money and women.
> 
> The Confucian virtues are 仁(benevolence)义(righteousness)礼(etiquette)智(wisdom)信(believe). I think we Chinese should also learn Muslim value, at least the basic value, otherwise, we can't understand our brother country - Pakistan.
> 
> China gov did poor jobs on Info War. The Price is very high. China may improve on this, but will take a long time.
> 
> Anglo-Saxon are so good at Info War game, they even wrote book to brag their achievement.
> 
> 1999: Victory Without War : Richard Nixon
> 
> The Info War is vital for China, Pakistan and many other countries, otherwise we are doomed.



I love reading Chinese history. They provide many good moral stories which I tend to reflect on. We have a similar culture in Islam, we value those core set of beliefs as mentioned by Confuscious. Even Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: "Seek knowledge even if you have to go as far as China, for seeking knowledge is a duty on every Muslim." Today the Muslim world is in disarray like China was for 100 years from the opium war period, but we had a strong heritage of arts, science and literature. In fact, the western doctrine of democracy which comes from Greece was translated from Arabic books, because Hypatia's students and their descendants were seeking refuge in Persia which was then conquered by the Muslims. The Caliphate (King) demanded these books to be translated into Arabic. Hence why we know about Plato, Socrates and Aristotle. 

I agree with you. The American's don't know how to win a war, but they are masters in manipulating information to suit their interests. If you study their history, there are countless of examples. Pakistan is very bad in this field, we haven't projected our soft image to the world and dispelled any misconceptions. China also faces a similar problem, I guess we both need more experience. The most important thing is to develop the One Belt policy and develop our region to overtake the Europeans and the Americans. We have the population, resources and history to do it. Instead of allowing the American's to use information warfare on our turf, we should take the battle to their country.

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## vi-va

Rasengan said:


> I love reading Chinese history. They provide many good moral stories which I tend to reflect on. We have a similar culture in Islam, we value those core set of beliefs as mentioned by Confuscious. Even Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: "Seek knowledge even if you have to go as far as China, for seeking knowledge is a duty on every Muslim." Today the Muslim world is in disarray like China was for 100 years from the opium war period, but we had a strong heritage of arts, science and literature. In fact, the western doctrine of democracy which comes from Greece was translated from Arabic books, because Hypatia's students and their descendants were seeking refuge in Persia which was then conquered by the Muslims. The Caliphate (King) demanded these books to be translated into Arabic. Hence why we know about Plato, Socrates and Aristotle.
> 
> I agree with you. The American's don't know how to win a war, but they are masters in manipulating information to suit their interests. If you study their history, there are countless of examples. Pakistan is very bad in this field, we haven't projected our soft image to the world and dispelled any misconceptions. China also faces a similar problem, I guess we both need more experience. The most important thing is to develop the One Belt policy and develop our region to overtake the Europeans and the Americans. We have the population, resources and history to do it. Instead of allowing the American's to use information warfare on our turf, we should take the battle to their country.



Yes, Chinese knew how Renaissance recovered Greece knowledge from Arabic books very well. 

*The concept that ancient Greece is the birthplaces of western civilization has a purpose.* I am not questioning ancient Greece influence, I am questioning the concept that western civilization monopolize ancient Greece, so that easterners are easier to be demonized as uncivilized. And concept has power, it can shape the way people think and who we are.

As you can see, by reinforcing WESTERN concept, they can group together so that they can multiply their power, and mitigate their inner divergence. 

*In the opposite, there is no EASTERN concept.* There are Pakistanis, Indians, Chinese, Iranians, Arabian, Russians. Those NATIONALISM reinforce our divergence so that we can NOT group together and multiply our power. 

*The propaganda praise FREE SPEECH so high, anyone against FREE SPEECH is political incorrectness, political suicidal and evil.* FREE SPEECH brought wisdom here and there, but much more bad mouth all over the place. So that different ethnics attack each other within countries and among countries. Similar attacks occurred among different regions, religions, skin colors and languages.

*Basically it's HUMAN NATURE.*

The divergence and history among us is kind of burden and became weapon utilized by colonialist and neocolonialist. And people never really learn the lesson from history.

*Basically it's DIVIDE AND RULE.*

Ancient Chinese pursue Ummah, Chinese call it Great Unity(天下大同). The Belt and Road Initiate is base on Great Unity concept. It will take at last 2-3 decades to achieve something significant. Chinese may spend 100+ years on this project if we do see positive progress.

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## HannibalBarca

viva_zhao said:


> Yes, Chinese knew how Renaissance recovered Greece knowledge from Arabic books very well.
> 
> *The concept that ancient Greece is the birthplaces of western civilization has a purpose.* I am not questioning ancient Greece influence, I am questioning the concept that western civilization monopolize ancient Greece, so that easterners are easier to be demonized as uncivilized. And concept has power, it can shape the way people think and who we are.
> 
> As you can see, by reinforcing WESTERN concept, they can group together so that they can multiply their power, and mitigate their inner divergence.
> 
> *In the opposite, there is no EASTERN concept.* There are Pakistanis, Indians, Chinese, Iranians, Arabian, Russians. Those NATIONALISM reinforce our divergence so that we can NOT group together and multiply our power.
> 
> *The propaganda praise FREE SPEECH so high, anyone against FREE SPEECH is political incorrectness, political suicidal and evil.* FREE SPEECH brought wisdom here and there, but much more bad mouth all over the place. So that different ethnics attack each other within countries and among countries. Similar attacks occurred among different regions, religions, skin colors and languages.
> 
> *Basically it's HUMAN NATURE.*
> 
> The divergence and history among us is kind of burden and became weapon utilized by colonialist and neocolonialist. And people never really learn the lesson from history.
> 
> *Basically it's DIVIDE AND RULE.*
> 
> Ancient Chinese pursue Ummah, Chinese call it Great Unity(天下大同). The Belt and Road Initiate is base on Great Unity concept. It will take at last 2-3 decades to achieve something significant. Chinese may spend 100+ years on this project if we do see positive progress.



*Renaissance didn't recover Greek knowledge from Arabic book... Renaissance WAS created by Arabic Translation and Teaching of Greek Knowledge...
And Renaissance is not only of Greek Influence but of Arabic Philosophical influence... (Like Renaissance main trait of Questioning God existence... come from Muslim and Agnostic thinking of some Arabic savant...)

I don't think many Chinese do know that... I don't believe that the majority of ''alleged'' scholars anywhere in the World knows that...
Actually Most of 15th to 18th philosophers were copying Arabic thinkers... Like Ghazali/Ibn Sina(Avicenna) and Dozens of Others... Fun fact... they even copied some mistranslation meanings... that later where corrected... When those Arabic book got translated correctly...
Today Students DO NOT learn about Prime sources... but from the likes of Kant and such...thinking those guys Created that thinking...

I came across Post grad Students in Philosophy/Literature... who didn't even heard/knew about Arabic philosopher THAT their western ones copied from...
EVen the likes of Freud who didn't spoke about the Father of Psychology... the Muslim Savant... El Razi... Thinking no one will translate his book or find his papers...decades later...

All of Europe exist thanks to Islamic golden Age... Those guys will still be living under a rock... thinking that rubbing salt in a wound will heal it/ get the demon out... or that taking showers will kill you... or the earth is flat...

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## vi-va

HannibalBarca said:


> *Renaissance didn't recover Greek knowledge from Arabic book... Renaissance WAS created by Arabic Translation and Teaching of Greek Knowledge...
> And Renaissance is not only of Greek Influence but of Arabic Philosophical influence... (Like Renaissance main trait of Questioning God existence... come from Agnostic thinking of some Arabic savant...)
> 
> I don't think many Chinese do know that... I don't believe that the majority of ''alleged'' scholars anywhere in the World knows that...
> Actually Most of 15th to 18th philosophers were copying Arabic thinkers... Like Ghazali/Ibn Sina(Avicenna) and Dozens of Others... Fun fact... they even copied some mistranslation meanings... that later where corrected... When those Arabic book got translated correctly...
> Today Students DO NOT learn about Prime sources... but from the likes of Kant and such...thinking those guys Created that thinking...
> 
> I came across Post grad Students in Philosophy/Literature... who didn't even heard/knew about Arabic philosopher THAT their western ones copied from...
> EVen the likes of Freud who didn't spoke about the Father of Psychology... the Muslim Savant... El Razi... Thinking no one will translate his book or find his papers...decades later...
> 
> All of Europe exist thanks to Islamic golden Age... Those guys will still be living under a rock... thinking that rubbing salt in a wound will heal it/ get the demon out... or that taking showers will kill you... or the earth is flat...



My bad on misleading expression. Chinese do knew Arabic Translation and Teaching of Greek Knowledge. And you are right, some Chinese(like me and others) knew it also related to Arabic Philosophical influence. I agree majority of Chinese, including westerner don't know that.

Thanks for the media influenced and manipulated by WEST. They did a damn good job.

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## HannibalBarca

viva_zhao said:


> My bad on misleading expression. Chinese do knew Arabic Translation and Teaching of Greek Knowledge. And you are right, some Chinese(like me and others) knew it also related to Arabic Philosophical influence. I agree majority of Chinese, including westerner don't know that.
> 
> Thanks for the media influenced and manipulated by WEST. They did a damn good job.


Every Middle Age Western papers were created with the central belief of the Author creation... No Quote... No Sources cited whatsoever... Nowadays most of 12 years old will do a better job than those guys that the west put in high esteem...

People should read Muslim papers of that time and the side notes... That will put Some Scientist to shame today... Where almost every piece of mind that wasn't from them was added in notes, like some Indus Knowledge... Chinese ones and so on...

It's thanks to that work that we later on... knew where and from who some X or Y knowledge was from...

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## vi-va

HannibalBarca said:


> Every Middle Age Western papers were created with the central belief of the Author creation... No Quote... No Sources cited whatsoever... Nowadays most of 12 years old will do a better job than those guys that the west put in high esteem...
> 
> People should read Muslim papers of that time and the side notes... That will put Some Scientist to shame today... Where almost every piece of mind that wasn't from them was added in notes, like some Indus Knowledge... Chinese ones and so on...
> 
> It's thanks to that work that we later on... knew where and from who some X or Y knowledge was from...



Thanks. I read quite a few your comments in past months, learnt more history which can't easily be found in books nowadays.

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## HannibalBarca

viva_zhao said:


> Thanks. I read quite a few your comments in past months, learnt more history which can't easily be found in books nowadays.


I agree, it's a difficult task to learn when The Scholar corpus already formatted the main ''Storyline''
But the best way is reiterate how some do nowadays (mostly at the Phd level) or how previous scholars did... Reading in the original Language.

It's the the only way. and it's not an easy task.

The Arabic ''World'' Didn't do a great job either... by keeping them hidden... and not giving them a proper translation... they are at fault... mainly them.
Many Arabic Gems from the greatest of Savant... aren't translated... never translated...

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Rasengan said:


> Many Chinese members have complained that Pakistani newspapers have attacked China, but what they don't take into consideration is those newspapers have attacked the Pakistani military. Why have they done this? Because the American's have invested $200 million across media houses to speak their narrative. China must do the same. It must employ the right people in media communications.



Pakistan’s English media has been bought by US, India, and Israelis.

Very few people in Pakistan take English media seriously, except the traitor pseudo-liberal self-loathing Pakistanis who make a business of attacking our government and military.

No ally and friend of Pakistan is spared from these goons, let alone our strongest and most loyal friend, China.

Please disregard Geo, Express Tribune, Dawn, Jang, The News PK, and our terrible media pundits who speak nothing but nonsense in their talk shows.

To give you an example, look how many of our media personalities lobbied for recognition of Israel and even making shows daily about it, all while they were massacring our brothers and sisters in Gaza. Shame on them.

IK had to come out strongly and say recognition of Israel is unacceptable and not even being considered.



Brainsucker said:


> That's China CCP weakness. They care only about Karl Marx and Mao jargon, but forget to learn psychology.



Chairman Mao was a great personality who did much great for China and its people, and he is rightly admired by them.

We could learn much from China’s rise and emulate their development and industrialization.

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## Itachi

Rasengan said:


> Please make an appointment with a history teacher. Locking up Jews was a logistical nightmare hence why they came up with the extermination plan in 1942. Honestly, the schools in America must be crap. The same analogy can be used in this case. China can't house 20% of the population inside camps unless they are prepared to kill them on a mass scale as the Nazi's did to the Jews. This isn't rocket science its common sense. Furthermore, such widespread massacres if true would have led to an uprising in Xinjiang like the Jews did in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising in 1943. Even the Israeli's who have oppressed the Palestinians couldn't have stopped an uprising like the Intifada.



lol the Muslims population in China isn't "20% of their population"....they have so far only detained 1 million Uyghurs...

As for my education, it's definitely better than all the ratta taught in Pakistan. 



Rasengan said:


> You want me to respect the opinion of an organization whose leader Rabiya Kadeer was funding and supporting the East Turkistan movement?



I don't know about this leader you're talking about but I'll search on it. As for the East Turkestan movement then it's a legitimate movement, just like the Kashmiri and the Palestinian movements. If you deny the right of Uyghurs you're denying the right of other Muslims that want independence too.



Rasengan said:


> The Chinese have been migrating to Xinjiang in large numbers since 1954 when Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps was set up in the region. Xinjiang belongs to China, so every citizen has a right to move into the region. Can someone from Washington migrate to New York? If so, then why the double standards for China. When Deng Xiaoping made those economic zones in the coastal regions, millions of Chinese migrated to those regions from all over the country. You don't hear the locals complaining. This migration is so large that in the holiday season of Chinese New Year 600 million people travel back to their homes.
> 
> The British stole land from the Native American's while Xinjiang belongs to China since the Qing dynasty.



Nope, Xinjiang doesn't belong to China, just like North America, it was recently conquered, this time by the Chinese and not the British and later Americans. 

Uyghurs are native to the region while the Han Chinese aren't. Simple as that. 












As you can see, China proper is half and even less than current China. 

Do educate yourself first before telling others what is and what isn't. 



Arsalan 345 said:


> You know nothing.you live in america.you have no idea.china Pakistan relations are strong.you know nothing about religion.



Another troll lol...whether I live in American, India, Antarctica or the Mars does it matter??

I know more about Pakistan than people living inside of it. Just like you. Now go troll somewhere else troll. 



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Actually he is both a patriotic Pakistani and orthodox religious Muslim.
> 
> We may disagree about this issue with China with him, but please don’t assume the worst about our compatriot.



Typical Pakistani and Desi attitude, disagree with them and they will try to hang you from the ceiling...



TheTruth said:


> I watched the video. They show no evidence. Why are you so desperate to believe West/Jew lies?



Right...."no evidence"...lol...."Everything is a Western/Jew lie"...."I'm a CIA paid stooge too"....I guess against China all your eyes and ears are closed. 



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Chairman Mao was a great personality who did much great for China and its people, and he is rightly admired by them.
> 
> We could learn much from China’s rise and emulate their development and industrialization.



Dude.....Mao literally killed millions of his own people to get his country off from the ground.....not something we should emulate lol.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Itachi said:


> Typical Pakistani and Desi attitude, disagree with them and they will try to hang you from the ceiling...



We should learn to disagree and still respect each other. In the end of the day, Pakistanis have only each other.

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## Itachi

Rasengan said:


> https://time.com/5496435/china-12-diplomats-tour-xinjiang/



I read the whole article, no where in the article does it mention the responses of the 12 diplomats and what they think about their visit. Plus, they only visited *one* such place, there are _hundreds _detention camps all over Xinjiang. 

All the article does if reinforce that China is treating the Uyghurs harshly and the whole world, expect for the braindead and the back bending servants, have taken notice.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Itachi said:


> Dude.....Mao literally killed millions of his own people to get his country off from the ground.....not something we should emulate lol.



Pakistan can also afford to lose a few million traitors in our midst. Anyone who sells our sovereignty to foreign hands.

We could use a great leader like that.

It was always what Pakistan has needed, unfortunately our military dictators themselves were sub-par and democratic ones open enemies to our state.

Quaid e Azam did not live long enough to make his vision a reality.

In sha Allah, Pakistan gets the leadership it deserves.

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## Itachi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Pakistan can also afford to lose a few million traitors in our midst.



I'm pretty sure we don't have "few million traitors"...more like couple hundred, maybe couple thousand. Mao killed between 20-45 Million depending on sources...


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## Char

Itachi said:


> I'm pretty sure we don't have "few million traitors"...more like couple hundred, maybe couple thousand. Mao killed between 20-45 Million depending on sources...



which sources?
it's said by west 20 millions died of famine in 1959-1961, the famine's not only Mao's fault.
China has never made the data public.



Itachi said:


> Do educate yourself first before telling others what is and what isn't.



educate yourself first!



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Chairman Mao was a great personality who did much great for China and its people, and he is rightly admired by them.
> 
> We could learn much from China’s rise and emulate their development and industrialization.



the West leaders praised Gandhi in public, but they respected Mao in their hearts.

Nixon looked like a schoolboy in front of Mao.

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## beijingwalker

Hundreds of millions people died from flawed government polcies or natual disasters throughout the human history, but the west only says that Mao "killed" the Chinese population even with the clear evidence that people died from some wrong economic policies and natural disasters, those policies were designed to boost and help the Chinese nation and people, like the Great Leap Forward, but those policies backfired and indeed caused some adverse effects on China, they were quickly scrapped once proved wrong.

China's open up and reform policy which brought China this great prosperity and wealth was also a new policy trial, in essence , it was the same as the Great Leap Forward trial, the only difference is this policy trial has been proved a great success, Chinese government never stops trying news ways to boost the country and getting the population rich, there were and will be setbacks in this process but China won't stop, otherwise we won't be at where we are now today.

Hitler killed millions of Jews with the sole intention of killing them, not helping them, that's the definition of killing, the west for decades keeps equating Mao's development experiments with Hitlers's genocide, that only shows howe evil minded they are about China and only people with brain size as a bird will fall for this vicious anti China propaganda.

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## TheTruth

Itachi said:


> lol the Muslims population in China isn't "20% of their population"....they have so far only detained 1 million Uyghurs...
> 
> Uyghurs are native to the region while the Han Chinese aren't. Simple as that.



Are you a moron?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_dynasty







ISIS sympathizers like you are disgusting.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

TheTruth said:


> ISIS sympathizers like you are disgusting.



I suggest you amend your post as this is most definitely against forum rules.

Our Pakistani brother differs with you on the Uyghur situation, and he has every right to air his views.

This does not make him a criminal.



beijingwalker said:


> Hundreds of millions people died from flawed government polcies or natual disasters throughout the human history, but the west only says that Mao "killed" the Chinese population even with the clear evidence that people died from some wrong economic policies and natural disasters, those policies were designed to boost and help the Chinese nation and people, like the Great Leap Forward, but those policies backfired and indeed caused some adverse effects on China, they were quickly scrapped once proved wrong.
> 
> China's open up and reform policy which brought China this great prosperity and wealth was also a new policy trial, in essence , it was the same as the Great Leap Forward trial, the only difference is this policy trial has been proved a great success, Chinese government never stops trying news ways to boost the country and getting the population rich, there were and will be setbacks in this process but China won't stop, otherwise we won't be at where we are now today.
> 
> Hitler killed millions of Jews with the sole intention of killing them, not helping them, that's the definition of killing, the west for decades keeps equating Mao's development experiments with Hitlers's genocide, that only shows howe evil minded they are about China and only people with brain size as a bird will fall for this vicious anti China propaganda.



Great answer. @Itachi Hope this is enough for your query about Mao.

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## Arsalan 345

Kindly ban this troll itachi.he is trying everything to create a rift between China and pakistan.he is talking about main.pakistan has nothing to do with mao or anyone.kindly delete this thread or ban him.

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## vi-va

Arsalan 345 said:


> Kindly ban this troll itachi.he is trying everything to create a rift between China and pakistan.he is talking about main.pakistan has nothing to do with mao or anyone.kindly delete this thread or ban him.



Agree. I think it's off topic unless @Itachi can approve this is necessary. 

Certainly we can exchange views about current situation and issues in xinjiang. This thread is created for *facts *related to xinjiang uygur, not something 60 years ago, or 2000 years ago.

@Dubious , what do you think?

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## beijingwalker

This guy challenges China's territorial integrity over Xinjiang, this set him apart from other Pakistani posters here.

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## Dubious

viva_zhao said:


> Agree. I think it's off topic unless @Itachi can approve this is necessary.
> 
> Certainly we can exchange views about current situation and issues in xinjiang. This thread is created for *facts *related to xinjiang uygur, not something 60 years ago, or 2000 years ago.
> 
> @Dubious , what do you think?


Honestly speaking I actually thought he was indian....

He has been thread banned so he wont be allowed on this thread!

Just a friendly reminder to ALL ...Keep it civil!

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## El Sidd

As CPEC moves forward, a closer people to people contact will go a long way in shunning propaganda aimed at stirring up unrest in the underdeveloped part of China. 

China's focus on uplifting the Uhigyur populace from poverty is admirable. An emerging developed Xinjiang promises a peaceful cornerstone for human development in the region. 

Hopefully Chinese members and Pakistani members can shed more light through their observations and not rhetoric based propaganda which usually follows such threads.

Keep it up.

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## Rasengan

viva_zhao said:


> Yes, Chinese knew how Renaissance recovered Greece knowledge from Arabic books very well.
> 
> *The concept that ancient Greece is the birthplaces of western civilization has a purpose.* I am not questioning ancient Greece influence, I am questioning the concept that western civilization monopolize ancient Greece, so that easterners are easier to be demonized as uncivilized. And concept has power, it can shape the way people think and who we are.




The Renaissance essentially stole knowledge from the Muslim's. The western world may look down upon the Muslim world, but we are the main architect behind there growth. Those books from Alexandria were very important. Since Hypatia was a woman in Egypt and the director of the Alexandria library it was frowned upon by the Christian clergy who decided to burn the building. A million books were housed in this library of which it contained the knowledge from the Ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Persians and even Indian's. The Romans were good at fighting wars, but when it came to scientific discoveries places like Alexandria were on a whole new level. It was this knowledge that gave Muslim's the foundation to do great things in the coming centuries to push the boundaries of science, mathematics, engineering and farming techniques. But the Muslim world had another ace up its sleeve. The Chinese followed and used "I Ching", but we had the Holy Quran and the Hadith to guide us. Those Muslim scholars were essentially great Imams, spiritual teachers, who mixed the old knowledge with divine knowledge to help guide them. This explains why the Muslim world is so weak, we have forgotten our roots, just like the Chinese did for 100 years from the opium war period. I wanted to mention this, because, like the old Chinese scholars, Muslims emphasize humbleness. 

They can try to monopolize Ancient Greece but small civilizations will always have small mindsets. Europe will never have the same pedigree as Asia. They won't be able to consolidate their power in the long term and the signs are already there. Look at there financial system, it's on life support, each of these states is borrowing huge sums of money to continue functioning. Too much water in a cup will eventually spill over and cause destruction. The Chinese have to bide their time. 




viva_zhao said:


> *In the opposite, there is no EASTERN concept.* There are Pakistanis, Indians, Chinese, Iranians, Arabian, Russians. Those NATIONALISM reinforce our divergence so that we can NOT group together and multiply our power. .



Although there is no concept of an eastern power bloc, I know in the future China will have a close-knit relationship with the Muslim world which is centred on economics, geo-strategic interests and exchange of ideas. You have to remember Muslim's aren't countries, they are a group of people which also happen to live in China. They along with the Pakistani's will be China's bridge to the Muslim world. The concept of nationalism doesn't exist in Islam, this was introduced to us by the West when they played divide and rule. I would rather have China as the next great superpower than the continued hegemony of the Americans.

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## Brainsucker

Itachi said:


> l
> 
> Nope, Xinjiang doesn't belong to China, just like North America, it was recently conquered, this time by the Chinese and not the British and later Americans.
> 
> Uyghurs are native to the region while the Han Chinese aren't. Simple as that.



To be honest, this is no longer about a Muslim Pakistani Friend to ask China to respect their Muslim Citizens. But more of how an enemy to attack China Political and Territorial integrity. So basically Itachi see China as his enemy, not an ally. So how should Chinese Posters to react against this hostility? As he is considered as respected Pakistan Patriot and Muslim Defender by Pakistani posters here.

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## Dubious

Brainsucker said:


> To be honest, this is no longer about a Muslim Friend ask China to respect their Muslim Citizens. But more of how an enemy to attack China political integrity. So basically Itachi see China as his enemy. Not an ally. It is pointless to answer his question with friendly manner anymore. As he see China as enemy, not friend.


*Yea well...it is not about the other person...It is about you!*

*How you answer will reflect you alone! How he answers will reflect him...Now, if you dont wish to answer, you dont need to! It is a discussion not everyone will answer.*

As for him, lets move along he has been thread banned ...what remains is how you will answer to reflect you (this *YOU *is for everyone not just you)

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## Brainsucker

Dubious said:


> *Yea well...it is not about the other person...It is about you!*
> 
> *How you answer will reflect you alone! How he answers will reflect him...Now, if you dont wish to answer, you dont need to! It is a discussion not everyone will answer.*
> 
> As for him, lets move along he has been thread banned ...what remains is how you will answer to reflect you (this *YOU *is for everyone not just you)



Yes, that right. My answer, and his answer will reflect our own. But I think we should point this matter openly. Because he is a Pakistani poster. and according to Pan Pakistan, he's a respected one. But, He has already gone too far on this. His attack on China Political and Territorial Integrity could create a big miss understanding between two Allies in this forum. Because his answer is an attack to China Core Political Interest. Any China Posters. Whatever they're trolls or moderates will see him as enemy. And they can become out of control. Make a point that attack Pakistan Core political and religion interest, that cause other Pakistani Posters get triggered and become out of control too.

At the end, what I posted some time ago in this thread is right. That both countries have their own core of interest. Whatever it's right or wrong, it is the most important thing for them. The problem is, the core interest of both countries are fundamentally different. And if both are not careful, can cause hatred, not trust.

So the point is, what is the purpose of this forum for both sides? A bridge of friendship, or an arena where everyone can brawl whatever they like. I see this as a bridge of friendship. That's why I dislike both Pakistani and Chinese posters who gone too far on attacking the other parties, and cause a rift to the "All Weather Friendships" that both supposedly to feel.

I like to call some of Chinese Posters as Drunken Masters, Red Guard, because they tend to go too far in how they post in this forum.

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## Dubious

Brainsucker said:


> His attack on China Political and Territorial Integrity could create a big miss understanding between two Allies in this forum


IF one person's personal opinion will create a misunderstanding...then I think our allies need to check their own members too...



Brainsucker said:


> Because his answer is an attack to China Core Political Interest. Any China Posters. Whatever they're trolls or moderates will see him as enemy. And they can become out of control. Make a point that attack Pakistan Core political and religion interest, that cause other Pakistani Posters get triggered and become out of control too.



We have Chinese people (more than one) bashing Islam, Muslims, Pakistan and Pakistanis on this very forum...yet we still have Pakistani members who have not swayed...But if the whole Chinese population on this forum will sway due to 1 member...then the Chinese members need to introspect their own behaviours too!



Brainsucker said:


> At the end, what I posted some time ago in this thread is right. That both countries have their own core of interest. Whatever it's right or wrong, it is the most important think for them. The problem is, the core interest of both countries are fundamentally different. And if both are not careful, can cause hatred to each others.


Actually you are wrong there...The core interest are fundamentally similar- For the economy and countries to grow!

The difference lies in our culture, religion and traditions! We allow questions and criticism of our people, govt, plans, actions, members, ideas ...but if the tables are turned, Chinese members see it as "an attack" ...With such an attitude, no discussion is possible!



Brainsucker said:


> So the point is, what is the purpose of this forum for both sides? A bridge of friendship, or an arena where everyone can brawl whatever they like. I see this a a bridge of friendship. That's why I dislike both Pakistani and Chinese posters who gone too far on attacking the other parties, and cause a rift to the "All Weather Friendships" that both have.


Again, questioning is not attacking! How will the other learn if they are forbidden from questioning?

Bridges are not formed on spoon feeding information but on the ability to accept and appreciate! And that can only be done if BOTH sides are ready to talk, DISCUSS (which can have disagreements) and UNDERSTAND!

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## Brainsucker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Chairman Mao was a great personality who did much great for China and its people, and he is rightly admired by them.
> 
> We could learn much from China’s rise and emulate their development and industrialization.



Don't miss understand me. Mao Zedong was a great man, a great writer, and a great politician. He was also a great Strategist. But it doesn't mean that you must stick to his teaching in propaganda front, and forget about the basic rule of Psychology. Because at the end, propaganda is about how to manipulate human mind. And you need Psychology as a science to make it work.



Dubious said:


> IF one person's personal opinion will create a misunderstanding...then I think our allies need to check their own members too...
> 
> We have Chinese people (more than one) bashing Islam, Muslims, Pakistan and Pakistanis on this very forum...yet we still have Pakistani members who have not swayed...But if the whole Chinese population on this forum will sway due to 1 member...then the Chinese members need to introspect their own behaviours too!
> 
> Actually you are wrong there...The core interest are fundamentally similar- For the economy and countries to grow!
> 
> The difference lies in our culture, religion and traditions! We allow questions and criticism of our people, govt, plans, actions, members, ideas ...but if the tables are turned, Chinese members see it as "an attack" ...With such an attitude, no discussion is possible!
> 
> Again, questioning is not attacking! How will the other learn if they are forbidden from questioning?
> 
> Bridges are not formed on spoon feeding information but on the ability to accept and appreciate! And that can only be done if BOTH sides are ready to talk, DISCUSS (which can have disagreements) and UNDERSTAND!



So what if somebody in your country openly declare that he or she's a communist, and no longer a Muslim? Is he or she allowed to do it? That's what I called as Core Interest. Maybe I said it wrong, It should be called as Core Belief or Core Value. There is nothing wrong with how Pakistan handles people like that; because of their Core Value. But China have a very different core belief and core value. That is actually fundamentally different, and... not quite compatible with Pakistan's one.

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## Rasengan

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Pakistan’s English media has been bought by US, India, and Israelis.
> 
> Very few people in Pakistan take English media seriously, except the traitor pseudo-liberal self-loathing Pakistanis who make a business of attacking our government and military.
> 
> No ally and friend of Pakistan is spared from these goons, let alone our strongest and most loyal friend, China.
> 
> Please disregard Geo, Express Tribune, Dawn, Jang, The News PK, and our terrible media pundits who speak nothing but nonsense in their talk shows.
> 
> To give you an example, look how many of our media personalities lobbied for recognition of Israel and even making shows daily about it, all while they were massacring our brothers and sisters in Gaza. Shame on them.
> 
> IK had to come out strongly and say recognition of Israel is unacceptable and not even being considered.
> 
> 
> 
> Chairman Mao was a great personality who did much great for China and its people, and he is rightly admired by them.
> 
> We could learn much from China’s rise and emulate their development and industrialization.



I agree with your post. Some of these media outlets peddle BS. Pakistan must purge these people from society otherwise they will spread like cancer and pollute the mind of the next generation. Those who criticize Mao have no understanding of China. There's a famous saying in China, "Mao was a great revolutionary, but Deng Xiaoping put food on the table." He did many mistakes and attacked the wrong people, and this is accepted in China, but they don't talk about it in front of foreigners. I am a great fan of Peng Duhai, Deng Xiaoping and Lui Shaoqi. Chairman Mao started off great but his policies ultimately made him a failure for trusting Stalin as the benchmark for China's progress. 
_
_

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## Dubious

Brainsucker said:


> So what if somebody in your country openly declare that he or she's a communist, and no longer a Muslim? Is he or she allowed to do it?


lolz so far they havent had the balls to declare but they show it by writing anti Pakistani rants on forums (even this one) or even publish articles in newspapers! But so far none have been killed for it! Hated maybe...but isnt that to be expected?



Brainsucker said:


> That's what I called as Core Interest. Maybe I said it wrong, It should be called as Core Belief or Core Value. There is nothing wrong with how Pakistan handles people like that; because of their Core Value. But China have a very different core belief and core value. That is actually fundamentally different, and... not quite compatible with Pakistan's one.


This is what I was discussing....Instead of explaining it, when questioned Chinese members DO ATTACK! ALL they say / state is that it is different but refuse to point the differences out or even explain further if asked further, they attack...

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## Brainsucker

Dubious said:


> lolz so far they havent had the balls to declare but they show it by writing anti Pakistani rants on forums (even this one) or even publish articles in newspapers! But so far none have been killed for it! Hated maybe...but isnt that to be expected?



Then, the news about the death sentence that I read from newspaper some time ago was fake.



> This is what I was discussing....Instead of explaining it, when questioned Chinese members DO ATTACK! ALL they say / state is that it is different but refuse to point the differences out or even explain further if asked further, they attack...



Yes, you know yourself, sometime I give them lecture. And sometime call them drunken master. Because I think, this is one of Chinese weakness, but also a part of their culture. They love to drink alcohol. They love to drink alcohol when with their friends and drunk. And if they open the forum when drunk, they will think irrationally.

I know that to be drunk is bad for Muslim. But it is a part of their culture. This is one difference between two culture.

I had to remind a Chinese Poster some year ago, when he troll in Bangladesh Sub-forum here; just after China took side with Myanmar about Rohingya problem. I said to him that Bangladesh posters are friend, because they side with China when his country and problem with Myanmar. then he confess that he was drunk and can't think rationally. Then he left.

At the end I agree with you. I think @beijingwalker, Dragon, @TaiShang and another Sober Chinese should remind their friends to be polite and sober when posting in here. I'm sure that they will cooperate, as I see them quite moderate and rational in their posts. So they should be rational too, when thinking about to protect the relation between China and Pakistan.

And why I mentioned @beijingwalker? I don't know, He claimed to have a rank as Army in his profile. So maybe he's a part of PLA. If the rank in his information is not a means of this forum rank.

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## Dubious

Brainsucker said:


> Then, the news about the death sentence that I read from newspaper some time ago was fake.


What news , what death sentence? And when did I say about anything being fake?

If you are talking about Asia bibi...Well, you need to know about some sly moves...She is in Canada without needing to go through the lengthy visa process which many find impossible!

The INTERESTING thing is...there are soo many who have been doing something or another ...when you live in a country with XYZ laws and dont abide them then wonder why the law is being executed...it is kind of strange...

2ndly, more than half of these cases on blasphemy are misused for ulterior motives, one such case in the past was due to a land dispute...and another was due to marriage situation....another case against an Imam that he did an act of blasphemy was due to clergy rivalry!

Lastly, it is interesting to note, that not a single person has been hung in Pakistan due to blasphemy...arrested = sure, taken to trial = sure...

I dont agree to the laws coz it has been only misused ...and even police now a days know that it is being misused and usually try to dig for real cause!



Brainsucker said:


> Yes, you know yourself, sometime I give them lecture. And sometime call them drunken master. Because I think, this is one of Chinese weakness, but also a part of their culture. They love to drink alcohol. They love to drink alcohol when with their friends and drunk. And if they open the forum when drunk, they will think irrationally.


Then they deserve a ban...Coz it is their actions, their irresponsibility and their hands that type....When drunk why come online? To showcase your stupidity? Well it will be rewarded with a ban and the other members should not come to their rescue which sadly they do!

Drunk people dont imagine things, it just means their control is low and they are spitting out what they have wanted to...without restrains! So, that doesnt deserve any  but a straight ban! And so far not a single has the audacity to apologize or ever explain that they were wrong or not in their right mindset!


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## Brainsucker

Dubious said:


> What news , what death sentence? And when did I say about anything being fake?
> 
> If you are talking about Asia bibi...Well, you need to know about some sly moves...She is in Canada without needing to go through the lengthy visa process which many find impossible!
> 
> The INTERESTING thing is...there are soo many who have been doing something or another ...when you live in a country with XYZ laws and dont abide them then wonder why the law is being executed...it is kind of strange...
> 
> 2ndly, more than half of these cases on blasphemy are misused for ulterior motives, one such case in the past was due to a land dispute...and another was due to marriage situation....another case against an Imam that he did an act of blasphemy was due to clergy rivalry!
> 
> Lastly, it is interesting to note, that not a single person has been hung in Pakistan due to blasphemy...arrested = sure, taken to trial = sure...
> 
> I dont agree to the laws coz it has been only misused ...and even police now a days know that it is being misused and usually try to dig for real cause!



Thank you for the clarification. Yes, it's Asia bibi. And the point is, that I don't have any problem with how Pakistan handles their own law and domestic problem.

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## Dubious

Brainsucker said:


> I had to remind a Chinese Poster some year ago, when he troll in Bangladesh Sub-forum here; just after China took side with Myanmar about Rohingya problem. I said to him that Bangladesh posters are friend, because they side with China when his country and problem with Myanmar. then he confess that he was drunk and can't think rationally. Then he left.


Why would anyone come online when drunk? That is really stupid! You have no control over their language nor their posts and then they want to complain that we are being unfair to ban them for causing havoc?



Brainsucker said:


> At the end I agree with you. I think @beijingwalker, Dragon, @TaiShang and another Sober Chinese should remind their friends to be polite and sober when posting in here. I'm sure that they will cooperate, as I see them quite moderate and rational in their posts. So they should be rational too, when thinking about to protect the relation between China and Pakistan.


If that is possible I would appreciate it coz it will help us not ban such members! But everyone is responsible for their posts/ words!




Brainsucker said:


> And why I mentioned @beijingwalker? I don't know, He claimed to have a rank as Army in his profile. So maybe he's a part of PLA. If the rank in his information is not a means of this forum rank.


LOLZ

I am not sure..Best you ask him


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## Brainsucker

Dubious said:


> Why would anyone come online when drunk? That is really stupid! You have no control over their language nor their posts and then they want to complain that we are being unfair to ban them for causing havoc?



That's I agree with you. It is why sometime I call some Chinese Members as Drunken Master.

Hi, @beijingwalker, are you with PLA?

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## Rasengan

Itachi said:


> lol the Muslims population in China isn't "20% of their population"....they have so far only detained 1 million Uyghurs....



I never said China's Muslim population is 20% Let me break it down for you. The figure proposed by western sources is between 1-3 million people housed in concentration camps. This represents 20% of the Uighur population in Xinjiang. Do you now understand such a simple concept? 




Itachi said:


> I don't know about this leader you're talking about but I'll search on it. As for the East Turkestan movement then it's a legitimate movement, just like the Kashmiri and the Palestinian movements. If you deny the right of Uyghurs you're denying the right of other Muslims that want independence too..



You are quoting some organization and you don't even know who operates it and what are their goals. The East Turkestan movement can never be compared to the situation of Kashmir or Palestine. The people of Kashmir wanted to join Pakistan after the British left, and the land itself was controlled by Muslims for more than a thousand years. Xinjiang was conquered by the Qing dynasty in the 1750s, and the map you showed is in reference to the Qing dynasties decline after the opium war period. But the province of Xinjiang in one shape or form belonged to Chinese dynasties before the Qing came to power. 

Pakistan is number one. If you want to play armchair general then play Call of Duty. I have no love for people who drink excessively, claim to be Muslim's but come to our country and murder innocent people. What does ETIM have in common with BLA? Both are racists groups who care about their own ethnicity rather than becoming a good Muslim.

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## Brainsucker

Dubious said:


> What news , what death sentence? And when did I say about anything being fake?
> 
> If you are talking about Asia bibi...Well, you need to know about some sly moves...She is in Canada without needing to go through the lengthy visa process which many find impossible!
> 
> The INTERESTING thing is...there are soo many who have been doing something or another ...when you live in a country with XYZ laws and dont abide them then wonder why the law is being executed...it is kind of strange...
> 
> 2ndly, more than half of these cases on blasphemy are misused for ulterior motives, one such case in the past was due to a land dispute...and another was due to marriage situation....another case against an Imam that he did an act of blasphemy was due to clergy rivalry!
> 
> Lastly, it is interesting to note, that not a single person has been hung in Pakistan due to blasphemy...arrested = sure, taken to trial = sure...
> 
> I dont agree to the laws coz it has been only misused ...and even police now a days know that it is being misused and usually try to dig for real cause!



Well, I have to thank you about this clarification. Because the news that I read some time ago was only about she changed her religion, and she got a death sentence. For someone who live in Indonesia, who respect more than one religion, my first reaction was "What the hell?" In disbelieve. But then I think Pakistan has their own value and law. So I should respect them; and should not question them no matter what.

And now, thank to you, I have a good clarification in this. So, at the end, there is something else behind the story.

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## Rasengan

Itachi said:


> I read the whole article, no where in the article does it mention the responses of the 12 diplomats and what they think about their visit. Plus, they only visited *one* such place, there are _hundreds _detention camps all over Xinjiang.
> 
> All the article does if reinforce that China is treating the Uyghurs harshly and the whole world, expect for the braindead and the back bending servants, have taken notice.




Don't twist the subject to suit your narrative I said 10 countries have sent their diplomats to one of these camps and you demanded proof. You never asked for there response. Sorry, I'm not going to spoon feed you the information. Go to google and find the information yourself. But @Brainsucker himself has posted many articles on this forum showing how the Indonesians are satisfied with the conditions of the camps. No one gives a hoot about the Uighur terrorists, except for you.

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## Brainsucker

Rasengan said:


> Don't twist the subject to suit your narrative I said 10 countries have sent their diplomats to one of these camps and you demanded proof. You never asked for there response. Sorry, I'm not going to spoon feed you the information. Go to google and find the information yourself. But @Brainsucker himself has posted many articles on this forum showing how the Indonesians are satisfied with the conditions of the camps. No one gives a hoot about the Uighur terrorists, except for you.



He's banned from this thread bro. So please calm down

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## beijingwalker

Brainsucker said:


> Hi, @beijingwalker, are you with PLA?


No, I guess that's a forum rank, you sign up as a new recruit and move up by spending more this in this forum and posting more posts. My immediate family has no army people.

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## beijingwalker

What do "detainees" do in Xinjiang "concentration camps"?
They are tortured everyday by different forced activities, they all look gaunt and sick suffer from malnutrition, would drop dead anytime.

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## beijingwalker

learning a trade to leave poverty, nail polishing is a big business in Beijing, you find them everywhere .I guess in Xinjiang is the same.





Learning painting probably won't get you rich, but it can be a good hobby.

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## 313ghazi

Are they free to come and go?


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## beijingwalker

Music and dance






















313ghazi said:


> Are they free to come and go?


No, they will be herded into gas chambers and cremated.

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## 313ghazi

beijingwalker said:


> Music and dance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will be herded into gas chambers and cremated.



Well in that case, you're just describing conditions in your concentration camps.

Can you provide a single interview of anyone who has been released from these camps? Anyone who has anything positive to say? Versus the hundreds of negative accounts?


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## beijingwalker

313ghazi said:


> Can you provide a single interview of anyone who has been released from these camps?


Many, some graduates account
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVgtpf6nFyQo2cAJyMo47ZQ/videos

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## 313ghazi

beijingwalker said:


> Many, some graduates account
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVgtpf6nFyQo2cAJyMo47ZQ/videos



Thanks, are these specifically from people who have attended the camps? How do people sign up for this? Are any people forced to go?


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## beijingwalker

313ghazi said:


> Thanks, are these specifically from people who have attended the camps? How do people sign up for this? Are any people forced to go?


They answered all those questions in those interview videos, but I don't know if they were telling the truth or not, not only western media knows how to do propaganda.

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## -=virus=-

We need something like this in Kashmir in India.

Pakistan could also do something similar for people who might have sympathies for the Taliban etc. 

Should be implimented nation wide in Afghanistan.


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## beijingwalker

They love dancing, so many dance classes of different style available there.

Uighur girl does Indian dance or Pakistani dance, I can't tell the difference.

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## war&peace

Are they allowed to pray and worship according to their religion?


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## beijingwalker

war&peace said:


> Are they allowed to pray and worship according to their religion?


No schools in China allow in school pray, I guess those schools are no exceptions.

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## war&peace

beijingwalker said:


> No schools in China allow in school pray, I guess those schools are no exceptions.


But here they are kept as captives. It is a concentration camp or prison regardless how good it may appear because they are not there out of their free will.

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## -=virus=-

beijingwalker said:


> They love dancing, so many dance classes of different style available there.
> 
> Uighur girl does Indian dance or Pakistani dance, I can't tell the difference.


Nice 1 ! 

This is the way forward, not forcing women in those horrible full black arab thing like ISIS and Taliban minded savages.

Very cool, she should learn some Chinese dances, and K-pop and J-pop etc stuff too. 

This frees and empowers women, encourages integration and keeps the vulnerable populations away from dangerous terrorist ideologies like jihad etc

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## beijingwalker

war&peace said:


> But here they are kept as captives. It is a concentration camp or prison regardless how good it may appear because they are not there out of their free will.


Some of them are and some of them not, I guess, Some of them may committed minor offences so for them they have no choice, others may just want to sign up to learn a trade. By the way, this kind of correctional center are very common in US too.






Satellite View of ODRC - Northeast Ohio Correctional Center (NEOCC) - CoreCivic

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## war&peace

beijingwalker said:


> Some of them are and some of them not, I guess, Some of them may committed minor offences so for them they have no choice, others may just want to sign up to learn a trade. By the way, this kind of correctional center are very common in US too.


In any correction centre in USA, you are free to worship.

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## Lincoln

Synchonicist said:


> We need something like this in Kashmir in India.
> 
> Pakistan could also do something similar for people who might have sympathies for the Taliban etc.
> 
> Should be implimented nation wide in Afghanistan.



Pakistan already has a program like this in Waziristan. Taliban captured during Zarb e Azb, and who were not considered "major facilitators," are reassimilated into mainstream society via the program.






Somewhere in here, it's a great watch.

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## beijingwalker

war&peace said:


> In any correction centre in USA, you are free to worship.


They can't in China, different countries have different laws. People can have guns in US, but not in China.

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## war&peace

beijingwalker said:


> They can't in China, different countries have different laws.


So you are saying that eventually all those reports are not false?


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## beijingwalker

war&peace said:


> So you are saying that eventually all those reports are not false?


What reports? 1-3 million or torture or rape or organ harvest? They reported all those stuff.

If those reports are true, you won't see any Uighur adults on the streets anywhere in Xinjiang.

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## war&peace

beijingwalker said:


> What reports? 1-3 million or torture or rape or organ harvest? They reported all those stuff.
> 
> If those reports are true, you won't see any Uighur adults on the streets anywhere in Xinjiang.


not those but what you just said


beijingwalker said:


> They can't in China, different countries have different laws. People can have guns in US, but not in China.


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## beijingwalker

war&peace said:


> not those but what you just said


No praying in public schools is true, I m pretty sure about that cause that's the law from day one of PRC, it's nothing new and I guess the whole world knows that.

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## war&peace

beijingwalker said:


> No praying in public schools is true, I m pretty sure about that cause that's the law from day one of PRC, it's nothing new and I guess the whole world knows that.


But these are not schools. These are concentration camps.


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## Hamartia Antidote

I’m sure they are having fun from this pic!!

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## beijingwalker

war&peace said:


> But these are not schools. These are concentration camps.


correcitional centers are considered schools in China where people learn laws and professions, I guess concentration camps don't teach people anything, I can be wrong, maybe Hitlter tried to teach Jews...



Hamartia Antidote said:


> View attachment 566900
> 
> I’m sure they are having fun from this pic!!


That's a prison, non of the training centers have students wearing this uniform, and training centers have both girls and guys students, this photo only sees guys.

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## war&peace

beijingwalker said:


> correcitional centers are considered schools in China where people learn laws and professions, I guess concentration camps don't teach people anything, I can be wrong, maybe Hitlter tried to teach Jews...


You can call whatever, it does not change the fact. Even in Pakistani jails, prisoners do many activities, there are schools in the jails and they learn many useful skills but we don't call them schools.


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## beijingwalker

war&peace said:


> You can call whatever, it does not change the fact. Even in Pakistani jails, prisoners do many activities, there are schools in the jails and they learn many useful skills but we don't call them schools.


If they are there to receive education instead of serving prison terms, it's a school, that's what we term them in China, maybe in your country you have different definition.

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## Hamartia Antidote

beijingwalker said:


> That's a prison, non of the training centers have students wearing this uniform, and training centers have both girls and guys students, this photo only sees guys.



Where are the white stripes?

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## Lincoln

war&peace said:


> In any correction centre in USA, you are free to worship.



Best to ignore. Just like Indian Muslims aren't our concern, neither are they.

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## Dubious

Brainsucker said:


> Well, I have to thank you about this clarification. Because the news that I read some time ago was only about she changed her religion, and she got a death sentence.


huh? No she was accused of some blasphemous action...I am not even sure what it was...burning the Quran or something...



Brainsucker said:


> For someone who live in Indonesia, who respect more than one religion, my first reaction was "What the hell?" In disbelieve. But then I think Pakistan has their own value and law. So I should respect them; and should not question them no matter what.


Well yes we have our laws but we do question them afterall we are a democratic nation not a dictatorship! 

Due to the "questioning" process she was released and her case was dropped! She was allowed to go to Canada without any troubles...Canada sponsored her "to save her" despite she being released with a clean slate (as opposed to our laws)....

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## war&peace

Alternatiiv said:


> Best to ignore. Just like Indian Muslims aren't our concern, neither are they.


Knowing the truth and facts is important. Rest we are not interfering but we should know especially about something that is being shared here on daily basis.

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## masterchief_mirza

Synchonicist said:


> Nice 1 !
> 
> This is the way forward, not forcing women in those horrible full black arab thing like ISIS and Taliban minded savages.
> 
> Very cool, she should learn some Chinese dances, and K-pop and J-pop etc stuff too.
> 
> This frees and empowers women, encourages integration and keeps the vulnerable populations away from dangerous terrorist ideologies like jihad etc


 I think women in general should avoid advice from Indians on empowerment.



beijingwalker said:


> No praying in public schools is true, I m pretty sure about that cause that's the law from day one of PRC, it's nothing new and I guess the whole world knows that.



I don't think it's unreasonable as you treat all religions the same. But my honest 2 cents worth of advice to China is that you should actually be far more proactive against Christian fundamentalists. I don't know if you noticed but they were all singing hallelujah in Hong Kong recently - there is your real problem right there - western media was jumping up and down with glee over this sing along, almost as much of a love in as they had with the umbrella brigade. This is how Europe and USA infiltrate, on the back of fundamentalist xtians. Next thing you know, they will be singing their way to independence and a US air base. Your best approach with the uighurs is the tartar/chechnyan model where the Russians and Slavic nations traded off a degree of local governance and preservation of culture and religion, in exchange for a fiercely loyal Muslim population.


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## Dubious

Synchonicist said:


> We need something like this in Kashmir in India.
> 
> Pakistan could also do something similar for people who might have sympathies for the Taliban etc.
> 
> Should be implimented nation wide in Afghanistan.


We already have something similar and the people are put in based on their affiliation not on their background/ ethnicity 

Kindly deal with india only and dont drag Pakistan into everything! Keep the thread clean and to the topic!



Synchonicist said:


> We need something like this in Kashmir in India


What Kashmir needs is freedom from indian army oppression! Now quit littering this thread with your insecurities!



beijingwalker said:


> No praying in public schools is true, I m pretty sure about that cause that's the law from day one of PRC, it's nothing new and I guess the whole world knows that.


So some of the reports were true! Thank you for admitting it finally!

You see the world sees that as oppression to practice religion and is the type of oppression that is being hyped and others are talking about! 

Irrespective of your laws, it is oppression nonetheless

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## beijingwalker

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Where are the white stripes?
> 
> View attachment 566905


You think all the prison wear the same uniform? which education centers video( already tons of them by different sources) do you see them wear those blue uniform?



Dubious said:


> So some of the reports were true! Thank you for admitting it finally!
> 
> You see the world sees that as oppression to practice religion and is the type of oppression that is being hyped and others are talking about!
> 
> Irrespective of your laws, it is oppression nonetheless


We never said the we allow worship in public schools, so what do you mean by " admit"? It's common sense that Chinese schools don't have a time and place to pray for religions, be them Christianity, Buddism or Islam. Now you suddenly start to talk about something that's been around in China for 70 years.


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## beijingwalker

"Concentration camp" car mechanic training






"Concentration camp" infant nursing training






"Concentration camp" massage training

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## Goku

This concentration camp bullshit is peddled by the west , there might be tough on measures on extremists but not on said "3million" . Chinese are doing good work

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## beijingwalker

"Concentration camp" electrician training






"Concentration camp" dance training, with Xinjiang's booming tourism, dancers working in local hotels , restaurants fairs and guest houses make good money comparing to other occupations.





Poverty mostly is caused by lack of knowledge, skills and business awareness, the Chinese government always believes the best and most effective way to fight terrorism is to eliminate poverty and get people rich, so China always focuses on teaching people how to make a good life for themselves and their families.


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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Some of them are and some of them not, I guess, Some of them may committed minor offences so for them they have no choice, others may just want to sign up to learn a trade. By the way, this kind of correctional center are very common in US too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satellite View of ODRC - Northeast Ohio Correctional Center (NEOCC) - CoreCivic



lol this literally looks like a concentration camp or jail

@war&peace @313ghazi @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Half the videos posted here don't even look real...like Uyghurs dancing lol?? wtf?

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> We never said the we allow worship in public schools, so what do you mean by " admit"? It's common sense that Chinese schools don't have a time and place to pray for religions, be them Christianity, Buddism or Islam. Now you suddenly start to talk about something that's been around in China for 70 years.



Muslims are required by their faith to pray five times daily, regardless of the reasons. In our faith, the one who does not pray is no longer a Muslim. It is a covenant with Allah swt and the first thing asked on the Day of Judgement.

Same thing with Hijab, it is a requirement, not an electable ritual.

It is not allowed to serve any state, or even parents, which keep one away from practicing Islamic obligations (five pillars, salat, fasting, hijab, halal food, and reading Quran.)

In Islam, loyalty to Allah swt and Prophet saws comes before any other.

If such a state banned Islamic obligations, it is not only allowed to rebel against such a state, but a praiseworthy action.

Perhaps China should revisit this policy if it wants to keep a Muslim-majority province as part of China, otherwise allow them the rights to practice their faith in an independent nation.

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## beijingwalker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Muslims are required by their faith to pray five times daily, regardless of the reasons. In our faith, the one who does not pray is no longer a Muslim. It is a covenant with Allah swt and the first thing asked on the Day of Judgement.
> 
> Same thing with Hijab, it is a requirement, not an electable ritual.
> 
> It is not allowed to serve any state, or even parents, which keep one away from practicing Islamic obligations (five pillars, salat, fasting, hijab, halal food, and reading Quran.)
> 
> In Islam, loyalty to Allah swt and Prophet saws comes before any other.
> 
> If such a state banned Islamic obligations, it is not only allowed to rebel against such a state, but a praiseworthy action.
> 
> Perhaps China should revisit this policy if it wants to keep a Muslim-majority province as part of China, otherwise allow them the rights to practice their faith in an independent nation.


No religious activities in public schools, it doesn't matter what religions, they are all equal. Do western countries or Pakistan allow Christians or Buddist students to pray in the middle of class? I don't know, even they do, it doesn't mean we have to follow, I guess that would cause conflicts between different religions, China also has a large Christian and Buddist popultion, bigger than Muslim groups in number, we don't want them to go for each other's throats, Rohingya style conflicts can never happen in China.

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## Char

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Muslims are required by their faith to pray five times daily, regardless of the reasons. In our faith, the one who does not pray is no longer a Muslim. It is a covenant with Allah swt and the first thing asked on the Day of Judgement.
> 
> Same thing with Hijab, it is a requirement, not an electable ritual.
> 
> It is not allowed to serve any state, or even parents, which keep one away from practicing Islamic obligations (five pillars, salat, fasting, hijab, halal food, and reading Quran.)
> 
> In Islam, loyalty to Allah swt and Prophet saws comes before any other.
> 
> If such a state banned Islamic obligations, it is not only allowed to rebel against such a state, but a praiseworthy action.
> 
> Perhaps China should revisit this policy if it wants to keep a Muslim-majority province as part of China, otherwise allow them the rights to practice their faith in an independent nation.



all religions in China are under the Chinese law, all Chinese Muslims are Chinese first.

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## war&peace

beijingwalker said:


> No religious activities in public schools, it doesn't matter what religions, they are all equal. Do western countries or Pakistan allow Christians or Buddist students to pray in the middle of class? I don't know, even they do, it doesn't mean we have to follow, I guess that would cause conflicts between different religions, China also has a large Christian and Buddist popultion, bigger than Muslim groups in number, we don't want them to go for each other's throats, Rohingya style conflicts can never happen in China.


They are being kept imprisoned. They are not allowed to go home so how can you say it is a school? It is a jail. Which school has classes 24x7? All the schools at max have 5-6 hrs of classes and even those are not continuous and are dotted with breaks. Students are free to do whatever they want during the breaks and after the classes. 
When I was studying, I used to pray in one of the breaks that fell on or around the time of the prayer and for that I didn't need anyone's permission. Same is true when I'm doing the business.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> No religious activities in public schools, it doesn't matter what religions, they are all equal. Do western countries or Pakistan allow Christians or Buddist students to pray in the middle of class?



They do, plus it's not "in the middle of the class". Islamic prayer timing are vast, like you have a couple of hours to do the prayers so you can finish them before or after class. Before work, at work (during lunch time) and after work.


It's called "Freedom of Religion"....no matter how much economic prosperity you have, if you don't provide your people the freedoms they require, it won't last long.



war&peace said:


> They are being kept imprisoned. They are not allowed to go home so how can you say it is a school? It is a jail. Which school has classes 24x7? All the schools at max have 5-6 hrs of classes and even those are not continuous and are dotted with breaks. Students are free to do whatever they want during the breaks and after the classes.
> When I was studying, I used to pray in one of the breaks that fell on or around the time of the prayer and for that I didn't need anyone's permission. Same is true when I'm doing the business.



Obviously they won't show the parts where these "students" are being made to chant the Chinese national anthem or sing praises to Xi Jinping or being forced to eat pork or being indoctrinated to hate their culture and accept mainstream culture.

There were stories of these "students" being encouraged to sell out their parents by reporting any "bad behavior" of their parents to their "teachers". There are countless other stories out there too, each with the same horrific pattern.

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## Char

Itachi said:


> They do, plus it's not "in the middle of the class". Islamic prayer timing are vast, like you have a couple of hours to do the prayers so you can finish them before or after class. Before work, at work (during lunch time) and after work.
> 
> 
> It's called "Freedom of Religion"....no matter how much economic prosperity you have, if you don't provide your people the freedoms they require, it won't last long.



you don't want to obey the Chinese law but want the law to protect your right of religion.

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## Goku

Itachi said:


> They do, plus it's not "in the middle of the class". Islamic prayer timing are vast, like you have a couple of hours to do the prayers so you can finish them before or after class. Before work, at work (during lunch time) and after work.
> 
> 
> It's called "Freedom of Religion"....no matter how much economic prosperity you have, if you don't provide your people the freedoms they require, it won't last long.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously they won't show the parts where these "students" are being made to chant the Chinese national anthem or sing praises to Xi Jinping or being forced to eat pork or being indoctrinated to hate their culture and accept mainstream culture.
> 
> There were stories of these "students" being encouraged to sell out their parents by reporting any "bad behavior" of their parents to their "teachers". There are countless other stories out there too, each with the same horrific pattern.


True my friend used to visit mosque on Fridays during lunch time while in college ,no teacher , student , administration had any objection when he used to come a bit late on Fridays after lunch break

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## Char

war&peace said:


> They are being kept imprisoned. They are not allowed to go home so how can you say it is a school? It is a jail. Which school has classes 24x7? All the schools at max have 5-6 hrs of classes and even those are not continuous and are dotted with breaks. Students are free to do whatever they want during the breaks and after the classes.
> When I was studying, I used to pray in one of the breaks that fell on or around the time of the prayer and for that I didn't need anyone's permission. Same is true when I'm doing the business.



you can do anything you want in your country.

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## beijingwalker

war&peace said:


> They are being kept imprisoned. They are not allowed to go home so how can you say it is a school? It is a jail. Which school has classes 24x7? All the schools at max have 5-6 hrs of classes and even those are not continuous and are dotted with breaks. Students are free to do whatever they want during the breaks and after the classes.
> When I was studying, I used to pray in one of the breaks that fell on or around the time of the prayer and for that I didn't need anyone's permission. Same is true when I'm doing the business.


I don't know if they can leave or not, so I don't make baseless claims, concentration camps are not for teaching, they are for punishing or killing. Schools are for teaching and learning, that's our definition, you can have yours, your country , your rule, we don't care.

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## Itachi

Char said:


> you don't want to obey the Chinese law but want the law to protect your right of religion.



When did I say that??

You're putting words in my mouth. Islam teaches the person to always obey the "law of the land", whether that land be under Muslim or non-Muslim rule. It is when basic human rights in infringed upon that rebelling against the state is okay and even encouraged.

Any idiot that denies the basic human rights of another human beings has what's coming for him in store, whether that idiot be a single individual or a state.

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## Char

Itachi said:


> When did I say that??
> 
> You're putting words in my mouth. Islam teaches the person to always obey the "law of the land", whether that land be under Muslim or non-Muslim rule. It is when basic human rights in infringed upon that rebelling against the state is okay and even encouraged.
> 
> Any idiot that denies the basic human rights of another human beings has what's coming for him in store, whether that idiot be a single individual or a state.



don't talk to me about human rights, idont care, Chinese have to obey Chinese law, if not just leave China.


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## beijingwalker

Every country has their way of ruling their countries, Pakistan has theirs and China has China's, China won't adopt Pakistani way in running China, neither would Pakistan take China's. So what can you do in Pakistan doesn't mean much to we Chinese in China.


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## war&peace

Itachi said:


> Obviously they won't show the parts where these "students" are being made to chant the Chinese national anthem or sing praises to Xi Jinping or being forced to eat pork or being indoctrinated to hate their culture and accept mainstream culture.
> 
> There were stories of these "students" being encouraged to sell out their parents by reporting any "bad behavior" of their parents to their "teachers". There are countless other stories out there too, each with the same horrific pattern.


I don't buy the western propaganda so I don't agree on this part but I'm just believing the words of our Chinese friends who have accepted that they are not allowed to practice their religion.

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## Char

war&peace said:


> I don't why the western propaganda so I don't agree on this part but I'm just believing the words of our Chinese friends who have accepted that these are not allowed to practice their religion.



none civil servants adults can practice their religion at home or religious places.


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## war&peace

beijingwalker said:


> I don't know if they can leave or not, so I don't make baseless claims, concentration camps are not for teaching, they are for punishing or killing. Schools are for teaching and learning, that's our definition, you can have yours, your country , your rule, we don't care.


Mate, we are all humans and share the same planet and a few things are above and beyond the state/country. For example fundamental human right i.e freedom to practice the religion etc. China is also a part of UN and many other organisations. You can't always say "their country their rules". For example when Trump started the trade war, China objected to it and we support China on this even though it is not as fundamental as human rights but equal & fair trade is the right of China. 
Similarly, Canada arrested some Chinese especially the daughter of some Chinese CEO and it was totally wrong act by Canada and we supported China on that and we don't say "their country their rules". 

We are not interfering into China's internal issues rather respect Chinese sovereignty and I do not buy western propaganda against China but I believe the parts which you yourself told us. We want China to progress and prosper but no country can prosper & advance without problems if it does not guarantee the fundamental rights to its people.



Char said:


> none civil servants adults can practice their religion at home or religious places.


Why?

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## Myth_buster_1

313ghazi said:


> Thanks, are these specifically from people who have attended the camps? How do people sign up for this? Are any people forced to go?



In Isreal its mandatory for all civilians to serve military and people have NO other option. China is next super power and they want to make sure all of its citizens are up to date....


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## Char

war&peace said:


> Mate, we are all humans and share the same planet and a few things are above and beyond the state/country. For example fundamental human right i.e freedom to practice the religion etc. China is also a part of UN and many other organisations. You can't always say "their country their rules". For example when Trump started the trade war, China objected to it and we support China on this even though it is not as fundamental as human rights but equal & fair trade is the right of China.
> Similarly, Canada arrested some Chinese especially the daughter of some Chinese CEO and it was totally wrong act by Canada and we supported China on that and we don't say "their country their rules".
> 
> We are not interfering into China's internal issues rather respect Chinese sovereignty and I do not buy western propaganda against China but I believe the parts which you yourself told us. We want China to progress and prosper but no country can prosper & advance without problems if it does not guarantee the fundamental rights to its people.
> 
> 
> Why?



you can not understand this from a perspective of Muslim, only law above all religions and neutral government can regulate clashes between religions and divisions.


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## beijingwalker

war&peace said:


> You can't always say "their country their rules". For example when Trump started the trade war, China objected to it and we support China on this even though it is not as fundamental as human rights but equal & fair trade is the right of China.
> Similarly, Canada arrested some Chinese especially the daughter of some Chinese CEO and it was totally wrong act by Canada and we supported China on that and we don't say "their country their rules".


US started the trade war against China, Canada arrested a Chinese citizen, those examples you made involve not just one country, We don't care about what US will do to run its own country or their own citizens. China also supported Pakistan in many international disputes.


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## Itachi

Char said:


> don't talk to me about human rights, idont care, Chinese have to obey Chinese law, if not just leave China.



Typical Authoritarian response....you don't run countries like that. You _lose_ countries like that.

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## beijingwalker

war&peace said:


> Mate, we are all humans and share the same planet and a few things are above and beyond the state/country. For example fundamental human right i.e freedom to practice the religion etc.


What are real human rights are still debatable, Chinese people live a better life than most countries which claim that they have human rights. In our culture we always believe national or collective interest come before individual interests, 国富则民强 that's the fundemental difference between the Chinese values and western values.


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## Itachi

war&peace said:


> I don't buy the western propaganda so I don't agree on this part but I'm just believing the words of our Chinese friends who have accepted that they are not allowed to practice their religion.



Believe me when I say this, these stories are all real, whether "western propaganda or not". China has a history of killing, torturing and subjugating it's own citizens, whether Muslims or not.

The Chinese members here will slowly start accepting the reality when the rest of PDF gets off of their high horse that the Chinese can't do anything wrong to their own population.

I'm waiting for the day a Uyghur hears about PDF and comes on here to expose these lies spread on this forum.


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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Believe me when I say this, these stories are all real, whether "western propaganda or not". China has a history of killing, torturing and subjugating it's own citizens, whether Muslims or not.
> 
> The Chinese members here will slowly start accepting the reality when the rest of PDF gets off of their high horse that the Chinese can't do anything wrong to their own population.
> 
> I'm waiting for the day a Uyghur hears about PDF and comes on here to expose these lies spread on this forum.


That what China did to her people, hard facts and figures can not be denied.

China accounts for 78% of the world reduction of the number living in poverty


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## Char

Itachi said:


> Typical Authoritarian response....you don't run countries like that. You _lose_ countries like that.



never mind, it's not your business.
you can learn some Chinese history about religions then you will understand two principles:
religions can't interven politics.
religions can't interven secular life.

maybe you know people would be punished because of criticizing government, but you don't know people would also be punished because of praising government in the history.

that means politics is not your business.

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## war&peace

Itachi said:


> Believe me when I say this, these stories are all real, whether "western propaganda or not". China has a history of killing, torturing and subjugating it's own citizens, whether Muslims or not.
> 
> The Chinese members here will slowly start accepting the reality when the rest of PDF gets off of their high horse that the Chinese can't do anything wrong to their own population.
> 
> I'm waiting for the day a Uyghur hears about PDF and comes on here to expose these lies spread on this forum.


Sorry I disagree with you. 
China has better human rights records than many countries.



beijingwalker said:


> What are real human rights are still debatable, Chinese people live a better life than most countries which claim that they have human rights. In our culture we always believe national or collective interest come before individual interests, 国富则民强 that's the fundemental difference between the Chinese values and western values.


China has changed previously from very communist style economy to liberal because the leadership realised the communism has failed as it failed in USSR so China started liberalisation its economy in 80's which was a 180 degree turn from Mao's China. So phase is complete and I hope China will realise that freedom of expression and religion will also help while oppression will only result in negativity. I believe that Chinese have incredible ability to adapt and change according to the time and hence survive.

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## 313ghazi

beijingwalker said:


> No religious activities in public schools, it doesn't matter what religions, they are all equal. *Do western countries or Pakistan allow Christians or Buddist students to pray in the middle of class?* I don't know, even they do, it doesn't mean we have to follow, I guess that would cause conflicts between different religions, China also has a large Christian and Buddist popultion, bigger than Muslim groups in number, we don't want them to go for each other's throats, Rohingya style conflicts can never happen in China.



There is no reason why we can't pray during our lunch break in Western schools. Does China allow that? 

In Western countries we can open our own religious based schools where we teach the national curriculum and our religion. Can Chinese Muslims do that?

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## Char

313ghazi said:


> There is no reason why we can't pray during our lunch break in Western schools. Does China allow that?
> 
> In Western countries we can open our own religious based schools where we teach the national curriculum and our religion. Can Chinese Muslims do that?



none civil servants adults can practice their religion at home or religious places.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

war&peace said:


> I don't buy the western propaganda so I don't agree on this part but I'm just believing the words of our Chinese friends who have accepted that they are not allowed to practice their religion.



These Chinese members are giving a bad image of China.

Islamically, this is the biggest oppression (zulm) which can be done and requires active resistance (Jihad.)

If this is an exaggeration, it is a shame on them for creating a distance between Muslims and China.

If this is truth, then Uyghurs deserve to be an independent nation.

Every Muslim will agree with what I stated.

I am hoping our Chinese members have got it wrong, as I would hate for them to lose face among Muslims and earn wrath of Allah swt.

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## Char

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> These Chinese members are giving a bad image of China.
> 
> Islamically, this is the biggest oppression (zulm) which can be done and requires active resistance (Jihad.)
> 
> If this is an exaggeration, it is a shame on them for creating a distance between Muslims and China.
> 
> If this is truth, then Uyghurs deserve to be an independent nation.
> 
> Every Muslim will agree with what I stated.
> 
> I am hoping our Chinese members have got it wrong, as I would hate for them to lose face among Muslims and earn wrath of Allah swt.



you must realize Islam is no special with other religions in China.


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## war&peace

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> These Chinese members are giving a bad image of China.
> 
> Islamically, this is the biggest oppression (zulm) which can be done and requires active resistance (Jihad.)
> 
> If this is an exaggeration, it is a shame on them for creating a distance between Muslims and China.
> 
> If this is truth, then Uyghurs deserve to be an independent nation.
> 
> Every Muslim will agree with what I stated.
> 
> I am hoping our Chinese members have got it wrong, as I would hate for them to lose face among Muslims and earn wrath of Allah swt.


I believe in the ability of China to learn and adapt as she has done in the past with her economy. So I hope and wish that Chinese leadership will realise this as well and they will change if there are such laws because paranoia against the religion is not helpful. Islam asks Muslims to respect the laws of the state that do not interfere in their religious duties.
We wish best of the relations between China and the Islamic world and we do not want to be a part of any anti-China propaganda by west and to this end China should liberalise



Char said:


> you must realize Islam is no special with other religions in China.


Give religious freedom to all. It will help China.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Char said:


> you must realize Islam is no special with other religions in China.



For Muslims, it is worth more than any state.

Generally speaking, not just about China.

We believe all sovereignty belongs to Allah swt alone. Life and After-life are governed by his rules.

Kingdoms, Empires, States all come and go. Allah swt is forever.



war&peace said:


> I believe in the ability of China to learn and adapt as she has done in the past with her economy. So I hope and wish that Chinese leadership will realise this as well and they will change if there are such laws because paranoia against the religion is not helpful. Islam asks Muslims to respect the laws of the state that do not interfere in their religious duties.
> We wish best of the relations between China and the Islamic world and we do not want to be a part of any anti-China propaganda by west and to this end China should liberalise
> 
> 
> Give religious freedom to all. It will help China.



I think these posters are just preaching and trolling. Neither can represent CCP.

Because if this was truth, then they will not be able to control Xinjiang, no matter what they do.

I am still seeing, in videos, people in Xinjiang wearing beard, hijab, and attending Jummah.

This must mean that the rules are not as strict as these posters say.

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## Char

war&peace said:


> I believe in the ability of China to learn and adapt as she has done in the past with her economy. So I hope and wish that Chinese leadership will realise this as well and they will change if there are such laws because paranoia against the religion is not helpful. Islam asks Muslims to respect the laws of the state that do not interfere in their religious duties.
> We wish best of the relations between China and the Islamic world and we do not want to part of any anti-China propaganda by west and to this end China should liberalise
> 
> 
> Give religious freedom to all. It will help China.



peace need compromise as Hui Muslim did.
Hui Muslims were invaders but they'v lived in China for thousand years, how long have Muslim lived in West, your good day in west will not last long.

actually, some Hui Muslims also began to make trouble
under the supporting of Saudi Arabia, wanted to make China a Muslim country and apply Islamic law. i tell you make China a Muslim country is far more hard than overthrow CPC.

we want make friends with Muslim countries does not mean we will let you interven our internal affairs, do you accpet communism because you want make friend with us?

there was and is a bleeding edge around Muslim world, Muslims in China are lucky in peace and enjoying the development, anyway, living in peace or rest in peace depends on their choice.

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## war&peace

Char said:


> peace need compromise as Hui Muslim did.
> Hui Muslims were invaders but they'v lived in China for thousand years, how long have Muslim lived in West, your good day in west will not last long.
> 
> actually, some Hui Muslims also began to make trouble
> under the supporting of Saudi Arabia, wanted to make China a Muslim country and apply Islamic law. i tell you make China a Muslim country is far more hard than overthrow CPC.
> 
> we want make friends with Muslim countries does not mean we will let you interven our internal affairs, do you accpet communism because you want make friend with us?
> 
> there was and is a blooding around Muslim world, Muslims in China are lucky in peace and enjoying the development, anyway, living in peace or rest in peace depends on their choice.


You are generalising. If there are some trouble makers, they should be punished as per the law but you cannot punish the whole community for the acts a few individuals. No body is ask you to declare China an Islamic so please do not troll & lie, we only asked you to let them worship and pray. 
We can learn from the failure of USSR. It had a iron curtain and banned all religious practices under communism but that failed and today Russians freely practice Christianity and Islam while most of central Asian states are Muslim and now people are free to practice. Do you think any of them misses communism or wants to go back?

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## Char

war&peace said:


> You are generalising. If there are some trouble makers, they should be punished as per the law but you cannot punish the whole community for the acts a few individuals. No body is ask you to declare China an Islamic so please do not troll & lie, we only asked you to let them worship and pray.
> We can learn from the failure of USSR. It had a iron curtain and banned all religious practices under communism but that failed and today Russians freely practice Christianity and Islam while most of central Asian states are Muslim and now people are free to practice. Do you think any of them misses communism or wants to go back?



but China is not Russia, China is a secular society and elites are atheists from the history.


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## war&peace

Char said:


> but China is not Russia, China is a secular society and elites are atheists from the history.


Same was in Russia.


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## Max

If people are forced to live in camps, it's abduction which is illegal and state terrorism against people. They should be free to chose their schools, vocational training centers, things they want to learn.

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## Char

war&peace said:


> Same was in Russia.



absolutely not!


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## beijingwalker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> For Muslims, it is worth more than any state.
> 
> Generally speaking, not just about China.
> 
> We believe all sovereignty belongs to Allah swt alone. Life and After-life are governed by his rules.
> 
> Kingdoms, Empires, States all come and go. Allah swt is forever.


We can't change what you believe just like you can't change ours, so trying to convince others based on your own belief and faith is pointless, but we can agree to disagree, can't we?


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## war&peace

Char said:


> absolutely not!


lolzzz, mate I have been to Russia three times and met their top academics, entrepreneurs and intelligentsia.


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## beijingwalker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> If this is truth, then Uyghurs deserve to be an independent nation.


Not even western powers dare to challenge China's territorial integrity, if our territorial integrity is being challenged ,we 'll crush them all with our sheer might, friends or foes.


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## God Parshuram

I have never seen concentration camps being praised like this. They are used as free labor and brainwashed to be loyal to dictator Xi and and CPC.

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## Char

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> For Muslims, it is worth more than any state.
> 
> Generally speaking, not just about China.
> 
> We believe all sovereignty belongs to Allah swt alone. Life and After-life are governed by his rules.
> 
> Kingdoms, Empires, States all come and go. Allah swt is forever.



China has longer history, so China is more certified to tell what is forever.

why China united is that China is a secular society, Europe was not united, Islamic world will not.

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## beijingwalker

God Parshuram said:


> I have never seen concentration camps being praised like this. They are used as free laboratory and brainwashed to be loyal to dictator Xi and and CPC.


Maybe you've never seen real concentration camps.

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## war&peace

beijingwalker said:


> We can't change what you believe just like you can't change ours, so trying to convince others based on your own belief and faith is pointless, but we can agree to disagree, can't we?


No one should interfere in China's internal affairs.

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## Char

war&peace said:


> lolzzz, mate I have been to Russia three times and met their top academics, entrepreneurs and intelligentsia.



so you should know the difference.


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## Verve

Mosques are not being shut down in China, and Muslims are free to pray at home and in the mosques. Those coming out of these programs can continue to pray and that's what matters.

This intensive and short social engineering program is fine by me. To do this organically would take years. As long as Muslims are not forced to do haram activities in this program I have no issues. Those who have strong faith will come out with it intact and those with weak faith will get brainwashed by watching TV let alone such a program.

Islam is peace. And if people coming out of the program are peaceful, integrated in society/country and law abiding then it's all good. As Muslims we should obey the laws of the country we reside in.

Europe has done this via their schooling system and it takes a generation or so. China doesn't want to wait that long and that's fine too.

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## Hexciter

Verve said:


> Mosques are not being shut down in China, and Muslims are free to pray at home and in the mosques. Those coming out of these programs can continue to pray and that's what matters.



www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-48696184/faith-in-ruins-china-s-vanishing-beards-and-mosques


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> Not even western powers dare to challenge China's territorial integrity, if our territorial integrity is being challenged ,we 'll crush them all with our sheer might, friends or foes.



They are challenging your territorial integrity actively, funding and supporting Tibet and Hong Kong puppets against you. So your statement is not factual.

Reality is that Communist China is just one state, many states have fallen before, and many will fall in the future. No one is immune to this.



Char said:


> China has longer history, so China is more certified to tell what is forever.
> 
> why China united is that China is a secular society, Europe was not united, Islamic world will not.



Egypt, Greece, Rome, Indus/Pakistan have similar ancient histories.

There is nothing special about China, don’t be arrogant.

If you disrespect your citizens, they will revolt. Governments have a social contract with citizens to respect their lives, property, and lifestyle. Once that contract is broken, citizens will resent their government as it does not fulfill their obligations.

Saying that, I hope Uyghurs can practice their faith and Turkic culture freely in China. Authorities should not cave into extremists in China who want to demonize Uyghurs.

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## beijingwalker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> They are challenging your territorial integrity actively, funding and supporting Tibet and Hong Kong puppets against you. So your statement is not factual.


All countries have their own schemes that's natural, but did the west ever dare to claim Tibet or Hongkong are independent countries like you did for Xinjiang? No one dares to do that cause everyone knows that's in possible. China is becoming the world most powerful country, China might not gain more land, but definitely will not lose any.Whoever wants to try will lose their own land to China.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> If you disrespect your citizens, they will revolt. .



We are Chinese citizens, not you, almost all Chinese people support the Chinese government, rebellions and civil wars are the theme of your part of the world, not our part.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Saying that, I hope Uyghurs can practice their faith and Turkic culture freely in China. Authorities should not cave into extremists in China who want to demonize Uyghurs.


You hope nothing for Chinese citizens, all Chinese citizens have to follow Chinese laws, it's not gonna change, China is one of the only few countries that always has the guts and spine to stick to what she believes and never caves in under western pressures.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> All countries have their own schemes that's natural, but did the west ever dare to claim Tibet or Hongkong are independent countries like you did for Xinjiang? No one dares to do that cause everyone knows that's in possible. China is becoming the world most powerful country, China might not gain more land, but definitely will not lose any.Whoever wants to try will lose their own land to China.
> 
> 
> 
> We are Chinese citizens, not you, almost all Chinese people support the Chinese government, rebellions and civil wars are the theme of your part of the world, not our part.
> 
> 
> You hope nothing for Chinese citizens, all Chinese citizens have to follow Chinese laws, it's not gonna change, China is one of the only few countries that always has the guts and spine to stick to what she believes and never caves in under western pressures.



I see now mostly these are *your aspirations*.

Xi Jinping is an intelligent leader, and not a fool like self-defeating posters which we have here who are fighting generational war against Islam and Uyghurs.

Chinese posters need to be less preachy and deal with the facts, this is will give a positive impression of China and Chinese to Pakistanis and other Muslims.

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## beijingwalker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I see now mostly these are *your aspirations*.
> 
> Xi Jinping is an intelligent leader, and not a fool like self-defeating posters which we have here who are fighting generational war against Islam and Uyghurs.
> 
> Chinese posters need to be less preachy and deal with the facts, this is will give a positive impression of China and Chinese to Pakistanis and other Muslims.


No one is fighting war against Islam and Uighurs, it's all in your head.

Every single Muslim country is China's friend, now it seems Turkey is also trying hard to be one, so we can count Turkey in for now.

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## Verve

Hexciter said:


> www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-48696184/faith-in-ruins-china-s-vanishing-beards-and-mosques



I live in UK and I know all too well the propaganda machine that BBC is!

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## Hexciter

Verve said:


> I live in UK and I know all too well the propaganda machine that BBC is!



https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/udner-the-guise-of-public-safety-12192016140127.html


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1121414461343109120

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> No one is fighting war against Islam and Uighurs, it's all in your head.
> 
> Every single Muslim country is China's friend, now it seems Turkey is also trying hard to be one, so we can count Turkey in for now.



No wisdom or tact, what can I say.

Do as you like.

If I really wanted independence for Uyghurs, my tone would be very different.

I want the respect of the religious rights of all Muslims in China and the whole world. Muslims are being denied that everywhere.

All these issues can be resolved peacefully, but I don’t think Chinese members here are thinking in this way and instead trying to justify actions against Islam (which may or may not exist.)

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## beijingwalker

"Concentration camp" teacher teaching students how to set up an online store and selling things online on Alibaba, a good way to make money.






"Concentration camp" E commerce class






The supermarket run by the former student in the E&T center ,China's Xinjiang





A student opens a clothing shop after graduating from the E&T center ,China's Xinjiang






Xinjiang will be always Chinese style Xinjiang, boasting world top class infrastructure with well educated people, it'll never turn into an Afghanistan style Xinjiang.

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## Itachi

Verve said:


> I live in UK and I know all too well the propaganda machine that BBC is!



Did you even watch the video?? Not everything from the West is propaganda. Just like everything from the East isn't a bunch of good will.

Keep dreaming or wake up to the reality. Your choice.


Also this:



Hexciter said:


> https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/udner-the-guise-of-public-safety-12192016140127.html
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1121414461343109120



I can post even more evidence if you require.

*Young Uyghur Tour Director Dies Under Questioning by Xinjiang Authorities: Mother*

A young Uyghur woman who worked as the deputy director of a tourist agency in northwest China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR) has died while being questioned in official custody, according to a recording of her mother that was secreted out of the country by members of the Uyghur exile community.

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/death-06242019143149.html






A facility believed to be an internment camp located north of Kashgar, in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, June 2, 2019.


Definitely looks like a internment camp^



war&peace said:


> Sorry I disagree with you.
> China has better human rights records than many countries.



Is those "many countries" are African ones then yes, China has better human rights than them....but still, Chinese "human rights" are abysmal, if any available at all. 

They don't hesitate to kill protestors using tanks (hint: The 1989 Tiananmen Square Protests) & force their ideology upon their people. You can already see the brainwashed Chinese on these forums.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> We never said the we allow worship in public schools, so what do you mean by " admit"? It's common sense that Chinese schools don't have a time and place to pray for religions, be them Christianity, Buddism or Islam. Now you suddenly start to talk about something that's been around in China for 70 years.


You not allowing it breaches the Geneva convention of allowing one to practice their faith...THAT in many people's books is violation of human rights! And THAT is what EVERYONE has been stating all along! *THAT CHINA ABUSES HUMAN RIGHTS!*

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## aziqbal

Its a shame that some Pakistani are so blind they are happy to turn back on their faith to follow China

a bit like when the Chinese gang was operating in Pakistan marrying off young girls young as 14 and then prostituting Pakistani girls in China and some Pakistani on this forum were saying that still China is right, our women are not for sale and neither is our religion

I am pro-China and always have been but I call them out for when they do wrong

China has not suffered any islamic terrorism and Chinese muslims are very peaceful nice people who have contributed to China for decades, why the U-turn on them?

all of a sudden without reason China has put them into these "re-education" camps

China should be held accountable and Pakistan should make it clear or tomorrow we are next

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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> I
> China has not suffered any islamic terrorism and Chinese muslims are very peaceful nice people who have contributed to China for decades, why the U-turn on them?
> 
> all of a sudden without reason China has put them into these "re-education" camps


That's the biggest lie you guys ever made, Xinjiang used to suffer terrorist attacks on weekly to monthly basis like Pakistan, thousands died including the police and civilians, most were civilians. only in recently years after China took preventive meausres in recent years that Xinjiang becomes the safest and most peaceful region in the world with zero terrorism. but Pakistani civilians still die from regular attacks and you ask us tho change, do you think we will and let Xinjiang slip back to a war zone economy.



Dubious said:


> You not allowing it breaches the Geneva convention of allowing one to practice their faith..


Really, US says China and Pakistan are two countries with the worst religious persecution, so you decide to join US and accuse China after being accused same as China, how smart a guy you are.

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## Char

aziqbal said:


> Its a shame that some Pakistani are so blind they are happy to turn back on their faith to follow China
> 
> a bit like when the Chinese gang was operating in Pakistan marrying off young girls young as 14 and then prostituting Pakistani girls in China and some Pakistani on this forum were saying that still China is right, our women are not for sale and neither is our religion
> 
> I am pro-China and always have been but I call them out for when they do wrong
> 
> China has not suffered any islamic terrorism and Chinese muslims are very peaceful nice people who have contributed to China for decades, why the U-turn on them?
> 
> all of a sudden without reason China has put them into these "re-education" camps
> 
> China should be held accountable and Pakistan should make it clear or tomorrow we are next



Uighurs are nice people if external forces don't intervene.



Dubious said:


> You not allowing it breaches the Geneva convention of allowing one to practice their faith...THAT in many people's books is violation of human rights! And THAT is what EVERYONE has been stating all along! *THAT CHINA ABUSES HUMAN RIGHTS!*



human rights in Pakistan is more worst,
I worry about the Christian in Pakistan very much.


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## beijingwalker

Pakistan should learn from China, every year some Chinese facilities in Pakistan were attacked and some Chinese nationals were killed by terrorist groups. If this situation doesn't improve, the casaulty will make CPEC not sustainable and no Chinese workers and engineers dares to go there. Terrorism is the single biggest issue that holds CPEC back, it is a make or break issue for this huge project.



aziqbal said:


> China should be held accountable and Pakistan should make it clear or tomorrow we are next


What China does is always within her own borders, do you mean China will invade Pakistan? Believe me, Pakistan is the last place China wants to invade, of course we won't invade any country, we are not US. In Chinese we would say your worries are worrying the sky may collapse and crushs on your head.


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## war&peace

beijingwalker said:


> That's the biggest lie you guys ever made, Xinjiang used to suffer terrorist attacks on weekly to monthly basis like Pakistan, thousands died including the police and civilians, most were civilians. only in recently years after China took preventive meausres in recent years that Xinjiang becomes the safest and most peaceful region in the world with zero terrorism. but Pakistani civilians still die from regular attacks and you ask us tho change, do you think we will and let Xinjiang slip back to a war zone economy.


@beijingwalker I totally agree on this with you. Some of Pakistanis like most of foreigners are totally unaware about this because China did not make it public and media did not cover but Xinjiang suffered due to the terrorism and the groups had links with terrorists attacking Pakistan as well. The groups were supported and controlled by the same handlers and for that Afghanistan and Pakistan northern area where terrorist had established themselves. China handled that situation quietly and Pakistan helped China and we together eliminated that network. But most of Pakistanis are clueless. China does most of its stuff silently until it becomes totally necessary to speak but due to this policy other people are not aware. 


beijingwalker said:


> What China does is always within her own borders, do you mean China will invade Pakistan? Believe me, Pakistan is the last place China wants to invade, of course we won't invade any country, we are not US. In Chinese we would say your worries are worrying the sky may collapse and crushs on your head.


Don't believe any random member on PDF even regardless of the title because this forum is neither representative of govt or people of Pakistan. China and Pakistan are together in this fight against the terrorism and sadly enough we still have terrorist sympathisers but they will eventually be weeded out. Pakistan in on your side. 
I only want China to go easy on Uyghur people and let them practice their religion because if you stop them, it will create dissent and an opportunity for the foreign hostile agencies to benefit from it. I'm saying this because Pakistan has suffered a lot due to some of our wrong policies like siding with the war of terror with USA that initiated the whole terrorism in Pakistan.



aziqbal said:


> China has not suffered any islamic terrorism and Chinese muslims are very peaceful nice people who have contributed to China for decades, why the U-turn on them?


No sir, you're wrong on this and you should update yourself about the subject matter. China has indeed suffered through the terrorism and it was foreign funded. And mostly in Xinjiang and Pakistan helped China in eliminating it. We both fought it together. China has a habit of keeping quiet because they think it will hurt their image and investment in the country. But there definitely was an issue but now it has largely been addressed. However, now China is getting very strict on Uyghur Muslim by not allowing them to practice their religion. I think we need to have a good interaction with them and tell them that Islam is part of the solution and not the problem.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Char said:


> I worry about the Christian in Pakistan very much.



What will you do?

Fighting nonexistent causes against Pakistan.

Honestly, Chinese members on PDF are the worst examples of their nation. Maybe you guys should go someplace else.

Nothing but loose cannons. What Is the difference between you and Indians?

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## war&peace

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> What will you do?
> 
> Fighting nonexistent causes against Pakistan.
> 
> Honestly, Chinese members on PDF are the worst examples of their nation. Maybe you guys should go someplace else.
> 
> Nothing but loose cannons. What Is the difference between you and Indians?


Both Pakistanis & Chinese members are gullible and basing their opinions on the propaganda by the west. Some of the members are citing the US reports against each other. Can it get more stupid than this?

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

war&peace said:


> @beijingwalker I totally agree on this with you. Some of Pakistanis like most of foreigners are totally unaware about this because China did not make it public and media did not cover but Xinjiang suffered due to the terrorism and the groups had links with terrorists attacking Pakistan as well. The groups were supported and controlled by the same handlers and for that Afghanistan and Pakistan northern area where terrorist had established themselves. China handled that situation quietly and Pakistan helped China and we together eliminated that network. But most of Pakistanis are clueless. China does most of its stuff silently until it becomes totally necessary to speak but due to this policy other people are not aware.
> 
> Don't believe any random member on PDF even regardless of the title because this forum is neither representative of govt or people of Pakistan. China and Pakistan are together in this fight against the terrorism and sadly enough we still have terrorist sympathisers but they will eventually be weeded out. Pakistan in on your side.
> I only want China to go easy on Uyghur people and let them practice their religion because if you stop them, it will create dissent and an opportunity for the foreign hostile agencies to benefit from it. I'm saying this because Pakistan has suffered a lot due to some of our wrong policies like siding with the war of terror with USA that initiated the whole terrorism in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> No sir, you're wrong on this and you should update yourself about the subject matter. China has indeed suffered through the terrorism and it was foreign funded. And mostly in Xinjiang and Pakistan helped China in eliminating it. We both fought it together. China has a habit of keeping quiet because they think it will hurt their image and investment in the country. But there definitely was an issue but now it has largely been addressed. However, now China is getting very strict on Uyghur Muslim by not allowing them to practice their religion. I think we need to have a good interaction with them and tell them that Islam is part of the solution and not the problem.



As a Pakistani forum, we have many different viewpoints. Many honestly just want to know details about the situation to provide answers to friends/family and to put their mind at ease.

What I don’t understand is why chinese members think they can come here and insult our religion, culture, and identity without repercussions?

For a country with a fast growing economy, once in a lifetime opportunity of making alliances, and a responsible government, it is sad to see such uncivilized and frankly barbaric views among members here about Muslims, Turks, Arabs, Islam, and Pakistanis.

It is shameful.

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## Brainsucker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Muslims are required by their faith to pray five times daily, regardless of the reasons. In our faith, the one who does not pray is no longer a Muslim. It is a covenant with Allah swt and the first thing asked on the Day of Judgement.
> 
> Same thing with Hijab, it is a requirement, not an electable ritual.
> 
> It is not allowed to serve any state, or even parents, which keep one away from practicing Islamic obligations (five pillars, salat, fasting, hijab, halal food, and reading Quran.)
> 
> In Islam, loyalty to Allah swt and Prophet saws comes before any other.
> 
> If such a state banned Islamic obligations, it is not only allowed to rebel against such a state, but a praiseworthy action.
> 
> Perhaps China should revisit this policy if it wants to keep a Muslim-majority province as part of China, otherwise allow them the rights to practice their faith in an independent nation.



So China suddenly become an enemy; not ally anymore?


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> Pakistan should learn from China, every year some Chinese facilities in Pakistan were attacked and some Chinese nationals were killed by terrorist groups. If this situation doesn't improve, the casaulty will make CPEC not sustainable and no Chinese workers and engineers dares to go there. Terrorism is the single biggest issue that holds CPEC back, it is a make or break issue for this huge project.



Both governments know India is responsible, just at it manufactured terrorism in Tibet against China.

Situation will only get worse for China and Pakistan, as US and allies put pressure on our weak points. Like fools you are falling into the game which SL did in lashing out against allies and friends, now it’s totally at the mercy of extremist forces and Indian designs.

If you want to represent China here, show a good image of your country.



Brainsucker said:


> So China suddenly become an enemy; not ally anymore?



Those are hypotheticals. If this is the case, which I am not convinced is.

However Imran Khan promised us he will look into it. If there are human right issues, Pakistan will be the first to speak up.

If not, then no issue.

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## war&peace

Brainsucker said:


> So China suddenly become an enemy; not ally anymore?


Naah, some idiots on PDF do not represent Pakistan or China.

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## Brainsucker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> No wisdom or tact, what can I say.
> 
> Do as you like.
> 
> If I really wanted independence for Uyghurs, my tone would be very different.
> 
> I want the respect of the religious rights of all Muslims in China and the whole world. Muslims are being denied that everywhere.
> 
> All these issues can be resolved peacefully, but I don’t think Chinese members here are thinking in this way and instead trying to justify actions against Islam (which may or may not exist.)



You can't EXPECT a recently hardcore communist to be a religious one; specially when they're challenged and feel that communism can protect them. The only way for you, if you think that they're a friend is, to show them the good of your religion, your culture, and your friendship, so they can open up little by little. 

You have to give compromise to them, but at the same time introduce the good of your value, building more bridge, and more religious based cooperation with them; so they can softened more and can accept your religion, culture, and value. Without that, good luck with the allies "All weather Friend" jargon.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

war&peace said:


> Naah, some idiots on PDF do not represent Pakistan or China.



Exactly, I never stated that.

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## war&peace

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> As a Pakistani forum, we have many different viewpoints. Many honestly just want to know details about the situation to provide answers to friends/family and to put their mind at ease.
> 
> What I don’t understand is why chinese members think they can come here and insult our religion, culture, and identity without repercussions?
> 
> For a country with a fast growing economy, once in a lifetime opportunity of making alliances, and a responsible government, it is sad to see such uncivilized and frankly barbaric views among members here about Muslims, Turks, Arabs, Islam, and Pakistanis.
> 
> It is shameful.


There are many sources of the news. Both sides need to show maturity & respect. If one side will call the other as violator of the human rights, the other responds with counter arguments and disrespect. But the idiots are basing their opinions on western media. How ironic..

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Brainsucker said:


> You can't EXPECT a recently hardcore communist to be a religious one; specially when they're challenged and feel that communism can protect them. The only way for you, if you think that they're a friend is, to show them the good of your religion, your culture, and your friendship, so they can open up little by little.
> 
> You have to give compromise to them, but at the same time introduce the good of your value, building more bridge, and more religious based cooperation with them; so they can softened more and can accept your religion, culture, and value. Without that, good luck with the allies "All weather Friend" jargon.



We stood behind you in your toughest times and helped you reach detente with the US, while you were facing attacks by USSR.

We helped you establish ties and build a lifeline from your country to the Arabian Sea, giving you secure access to the ME. Malacca straits are dangerous due to US naval pressure.

We cooperated for decades together in containing India and supporting you in Tibet.

Even today, we are defending you against the whole Muslim world and Western propaganda on charges of abusing and detaining Uyghurs.

We are allies, this is not in doubt.

Hope you would see it properly.

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## war&peace

Brainsucker said:


> You can't EXPECT a recently hardcore communist to be a religious one; specially when they're challenged and feel that communism can protect them. The only way for you, if you think that they're a friend is, to show them the good of your religion, your culture, and your friendship, so they can open up little by little.
> 
> You have to give compromise to them, but at the same time introduce the good of your value, building more bridge, and more religious based cooperation with them; so they can softened more and can accept your religion, culture, and value. Without that, good luck with the allies "All weather Friend" jargon.


Very wise words. I totally agree. Most of our members lack maturity, patience & wisdom. Their emotions are at the tip of their tongues and this is really bad. Furthermore, none has bothered to verify the reports which are created by the people who are their enemies.


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Really, US says China and Pakistan are two countries with the worst religious persecution, so you decide to join US and accuse China after being accused same as China, how smart a guy you are.


And this kind of attitude isn't going to yield much.

You stated the truth and now when the truth is repeated under human rights law you call me American lolz

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

war&peace said:


> There are many sources of the news. Both sides need to show maturity & respect. If one side will call the other as violator of the human rights, the other responds with counter arguments and disrespect. But the idiots are basing their opinions on western media. How ironic..



The only thing which bothered me is that some Chinese posters are very proud that prayers/salat are not allowed in schools.

I want to verify the truth about this, but I doubt they can give me proof one way or the other.

Just seems like they have some wishful thinking.

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## Dubious

Char said:


> human rights in Pakistan is more worst,
> I worry about the Christian in Pakistan very much.


Thread is not about Pakistan stop derailing it with your insecurities ....It will be counted as trolling!

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## war&peace

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> The only thing which bothered me is that some Chinese posters are very proud that prayers/salat are not allowed in schools.
> 
> I want to verify the truth about this, but I doubt they can give me proof one way or the other.
> 
> Just seems like they have some wishful thinking.


Even they are brainwashed by the western propaganda against Islam. What they need to understand is that stopping the people from practicing the peaceful religious traditions and interfering in their personal lives will only result in the dissent and violence. If they are serious about resolving the violence, they should let people practice their religion however keep an eye on extremists.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

war&peace said:


> Even they are brainwashed by the western propaganda against Islam. What they need to understand is that stopping the people from practicing the peaceful religious traditions and interfering in their personal lives will only result in the dissent and violence. If they are serious about resolving the violence, they should let people practice their religion however keep an eye on extremists.



I trust Xi Jinping, he is a great visionary leader and I have full confidence in him.

All issues will be ironed out and harmony will again be restored, in sha Allah.

We will go far together, regardless of what the detractors may think.



Today, US, Israel, and India are crying to see us united. Tomorrow, the whole world will be envious.

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## war&peace

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I trust Xi Jinping, he is a great visionary leader and I have full confidence in him.
> 
> All issues will be ironed out and harmony will again be restored, in sha Allah.
> 
> We will go far together, regardless of what the detractors may think.
> 
> 
> 
> Today, US, Israel, and India are crying to see us united. Tomorrow, the whole world will be envious.


For that to work, both sides need to show some maturity and wisdom instead of letting their periodic hormonal cycle to ruin it. Also there are lot of false flaggers and some members have other affiliations including some title holders and they are under observation.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> That's the biggest lie you guys ever made, Xinjiang used to suffer terrorist attacks on weekly to monthly basis like Pakistan, thousands died including the police and civilians, most were civilians. only in recently years after China took preventive meausres in recent years that Xinjiang becomes the safest and most peaceful region in the world with zero terrorism. but Pakistani civilians still die from regular attacks and you ask us tho change, do you think we will and let Xinjiang slip back to a war zone economy.



lol "terrorist attacks"....more like freedom fighters fighting for their rights and homeland after being brutalized for decades by Communist policies and tactics.

No matter what you peddle on here and what your elk and followers say, the truth has been slowly revealing itself and will keep revealing itself. Those that turn a blind eye to the Uyghur persecution will themselves be persecuted in the future, that's how it works. 

Speak up for someone and you'll have friends. Speak up for no one and one day, no one will speak up for you.



aziqbal said:


> or tomorrow we are next



Yup, that's what a lot of idiot Pakistanis (foreign or living in the homeland) don't realize. That they're next on the list of the international gang of criminals....if they don't stand up for _all_ the Muslims across the world, not just selectively choose which to support and which not to, then no one will come to support us when the time comes.

And they think China is here because it wants to be our friend? LOL.....China is here for it's own benefit...the day relations between India, China and the US normalize, the day China will join the gang against us. 

The only reason why it's goodie goodie with us is because it needs us.



Dubious said:


> Thread is not about Pakistan stop derailing it with your insecurities ....It will be counted as trolling!



When presented with the Truth or an alternative opinion, they go back to trolling the person, his/her religion, nationality, country of living and birth....everything *but *what's being talked about.

You can see here that I haven't trolled one bit but I have been trolled upon multiple times and even reported them.

Plus you banned me from the other Xinjiang thread for no reason and you still see me as not trolling. You should be more harder on these people that spread lies and half-truths.

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## Dubious

Itachi said:


> When presented with the Truth or an alternative opinion, they go back to trolling the person, his/her religion, nationality, country of living and birth....everything *but *what's being talked about.
> 
> You can see here that I haven't trolled one bit but I have been trolled upon multiple times and even reported them.
> 
> Plus you banned me from the other Xinjiang thread for no reason and you still see me as not trolling. You should be more harder on these people that spread lies and half-truths.


I did ban you and I have my reasons that I don't remember now 

But I agree this is too much


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## war&peace

Itachi said:


> lol "terrorist attacks"....more like freedom fighters fighting for their rights and homeland after being brutalized for decades by Communist policies and tactics.
> 
> No matter what you peddle on here and what your elk and followers say, the truth has been slowly revealing itself and will keep revealing itself. Those that turn a blind eye to the Uyghur persecution will themselves be persecuted in the future, that's how it works.
> 
> Speak up for someone and you'll have friends. Speak up for no one and one day, no one will speak up for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, that's what a lot of idiot Pakistanis (foreign or living in the homeland) don't realize. That they're next on the list of the international gang of criminals....if they don't stand up for _all_ the Muslims across the world, not just selectively choose which to support and which not to, then no one will come to support us when the time comes.
> 
> And they think China is here because it wants to be our friend? LOL.....China is here for it's own benefit...the day relations between India, China and the US normalize, the day China will join the gang against us.
> 
> The only reason why it's goodie goodie with us is because it needs us.


Uygur Muslims in Xinjiang have been living peacefully for centuries. But recently some foreign funded terrorist tried to disturb the peace and penetrate the society. They were sponsored and funded by CIA. They were not indigenous people and they cannot be called freedom fighters at all. They were terrorist and China & Pakistan jointly eliminated them.


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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Really, US says China and Pakistan are two countries with the worst religious persecution, so you decide to join US and accuse China after being accused same as China, how smart a guy you are.



US can say whatever it wants to. Doesn't make it correct. What we're discussing here is based on facts, reality and independent reports, whether from the US or not.



Dubious said:


> I did ban you and I have my reasons that I don't remember now
> 
> But I agree this is too much



Banned me and can't even remember what I got banned for!? 


You also called me a Indian...

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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> I did ban you and I have my reasons that I don't remember now
> 
> But I agree this is too much


He has his own axe to grind... So let's not let such people take advantage of the situation.


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## Itachi

war&peace said:


> Uygur Muslims in Xinjiang have been living peacefully for centuries. But recently some foreign funded terrorist tried to disturb the peace and penetrate the society. They were sponsored and funded by CIA. They were not indigenous people and they cannot be called freedom fighters at all. They were terrorist and China & Pakistan jointly eliminated them.



lol what ya smoking??

Might have been some terrorists here and there but the Uyghur independence movement is legit and is based on multiple real grievances with China. Go google about East Turkestan, you'll understand.



war&peace said:


> He has his own axe to grind... So let's not let such people take advantage of the situation.



Excuse me??

What're you hinting at here? Come out into the open...don't try to hide your opinion about me.


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## Dubious

Itachi said:


> Banned me and can't even remember what I got banned for!?


Hey it wasn't personal that I should remember....we have to deal with plenty every day...you case was few days old lolz



Itachi said:


> You also called me a Indian...


I said I thought you were....There was an Indian with such a name....


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## Itachi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> As a Pakistani forum, we have many different viewpoints. Many honestly just want to know details about the situation to provide answers to friends/family and to put their mind at ease.
> 
> What I don’t understand is why chinese members think they can come here and insult our religion, culture, and identity without repercussions?
> 
> For a country with a fast growing economy, once in a lifetime opportunity of making alliances, and a responsible government, it is sad to see such uncivilized and frankly barbaric views among members here about Muslims, Turks, Arabs, Islam, and Pakistanis.
> 
> It is shameful.



Economic prosperity and more money to spend doesn't equate to wisdom or hide the fact that rice farmers will always act like rice farmers.

Just like Arab bedouins or Dehati land owning Chaudhry/Nawabs...

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## Indos

BBC has been invited to the camp

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## Dubious

Itachi said:


> Excuse me??
> 
> What're you hinting at here? Come out into the open...don't try to hide your opinion about me.




Relax and don't get into hyper drive mode

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## Itachi

Dubious said:


> I said I thought you were....There was an Indian with such a name....



Yes, I forgive you. 

His name was either itachi or itachii something like that. If you know about the manga/anime Naruto, you'll know that my name comes from there.


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## Dubious

Itachi said:


> Yes, I forgive you.
> 
> His name was either itachi or itachii something like that. If you know about the manga/anime Naruto, you'll know that my name comes from there.



I see ...yes his name was Itachii or something

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## Itachi

Dubious said:


> Relax and don't get into hyper drive mode



lol I'm cool as a cucumber....if he has something to say to me, whether nice or not. He can say it in the open, idgaf either way

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## Dubious

Itachi said:


> lol I'm cool as a cucumber....if he has something to say to me, whether nice or not. He can say it in the open, idgaf either way




Good I wanna keep it civil and not give anyone any reason to get the thread closed

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## Itachi

Indos said:


> BBC has been invited to the camp



Dauym......"I made a mistake" (being a Muslim that is...)

00.22 (video): "Our purpose is to get rid of _extremist thought_" Like 22-60 years old have extremist thoughts? And whole thousands of them too? lol

@Indos thanks for exposing the truth. Bookmarking that video for future reference if anyone asks "How're Uyghurs being persecuted?"

Props to you!

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

It is good @Itachi that someone is asking tough questions, it needs to be done. I am watching the answers intently, and I am dissatisfied by the reactions.

We are on a defense forum, where geopolitics and issues of human rights comes up often.

Pakistani members also face hard questions from Non-Pakistanis, so Chinese members should come prepared to defend their country in the best possible way.

It is pretty much par for the course in any serious online forum.

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## Indos

Itachi said:


> Dauym......"I made a mistake" (being a Muslim that is...)
> 
> 00.22 (video): "Our purpose is to get rid of _extremist thought_" Like 22-60 years old have extremist thoughts? And whole thousands of them too? lol



Indonesian have also been invited to see the camp and the delegation also not satisfied with the condition. People with religious tendency like having a beard can go to the camp, student cannot pray at camp etc

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## Itachi

Indos said:


> BBC has been invited to the camp



1) 06:00 "I was cuffed for a weak" (A Muslimah; Muslim woman)

2) I was beaten...

3) Before visits from outsiders, I was told to act nice and not talk...(i.e. reveal the truth) or else my situation will get worse..


^that about sounds like persecution of a dictatorial regime.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @war&peace still got doubts bro?

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## war&peace

Itachi said:


> What're you hinting at here? Come out into the open...don't try to hide your opinion about me.


I have been member since August 2015 and I have never seen a single post from you about the Indian atrocities in IoJ&K, Palestine or India but you are getting hyper and abusive towards Chinese. Even if we take western media reports as factual ( which is NEVER the case), China is not killing anyone...only trying to teach and modify them even though Chinese have got a few things wrong but on the whole they are still better than others and we should communicate to them with love and wisdom.

I really find this height of hypocrisy and suspicious that someone is so vocal for Uygur Muslims but goes totally silent on Kashmir, Palestine, Afghanistan, Syria etc where millions of Muslims have been killed by the NATO and its allies.

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## Dubious

Indos said:


> Indonesian have also been invited to see the camp and the delegation also not satisfied with the condition. People with religious tendency like having a beard can go to the camp, student cannot pray at camp etc


So basically to qualify as an extremist in China all you have to do is accidentally pray in a public place or even as little as sprouting a beard which SOME Chinese people have difficulty with?


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## Itachi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> It is good @Itachi that someone is asking tough questions, it needs to be done. I am watching the answers intently, and I am dissatisfied by the reactions.
> 
> We are on a defense forum, where geopolitics and issues of human rights comes up often.
> 
> Pakistani members also face hard questions from Non-Pakistanis, so Chinese members should come prepared to defend their country in the best possible way.
> 
> It is pretty much par for the course in any serious online forum.



Spot on....my intention is not to troll otherwise I would be doing that...


I'm here just to ask the questions that need to be asked and reveal the truth that should be....not spread half truths and lies.



war&peace said:


> I have been member since August 2015 and I have never seen a single post from about the Indian atrocities in IoJ&K, Palestine or India but you are getting hyper and abusive towards Chinese. Even if we take western media reports as factual (which those are NOT), China is not killing anyone...only trying to teach and modify them even though Chinese have got a few things wrong but on the whole they are oppressors.
> I really find this height of hypocrisy and suspicious that someone is so vocal for Uygur Muslims but goes totally silent on Kashmir, Palestine, Afghanistan, Syria etc where millions of Muslims have been killed by the NATO and its allies.



Look in my history, you'll find all that you need to find. If you're accusing me then go on. I have been accused of being a Indian, a CIA agent, a American paid stooge and much more. 

I'll add your accusations to the list too. 



Dubious said:


> So basically to qualify as an extremist in China all you have to do is accidentally pray in a public place or even as little as sprouting a beard which SOME Chinese people have difficulty with?



Sadly...._yes_, anyone that acts like a Muslim or/& talks like a Muslim is a existential threat to the CPC/Chinese govt.....they need (or think they need) a "iron hand" over Xinjiang.

If you didn't know this already, the Chinese govt. has been actively importing Han Chinese to Xinjiang to dilute the Uyghur/other Muslim minority population. That itself signifies mal intent.

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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> So basically to qualify as an extremist in China all you have to do is accidentally pray in a public place or even as little as sprouting a beard which SOME Chinese people have difficulty with?


This is NOT the case because a lot of Muslims in China have beards and they are free to pray and also there are a lot of halal shops but due to the recent wave of terrorism in Xinjxiang, China is trying to "reform" Uyghur people but some of their methods infringe on human rights and freedom but that can easily be solved through discussion. No one should be allowed to ruin the relations. There are a lot of false flaggers on this forum.

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## Indos

Dubious said:


> So basically to qualify as an extremist in China all you have to do is accidentally pray in a public place or even as little as sprouting a beard which SOME Chinese people have difficulty with?



You can read by yourselves, it is Google translate of the Indonesian delegation who has been quoted

"This training center is alleged to be a concentration camp or re-education center," he said.

Junaidi saw the attitude of the Chinese government was inseparable from the trauma of the terror that occurred in the Bamboo Curtain country. The training center contains men and women who are allegedly exposed to radicalism.

"Broadly speaking, it is understood that the Chinese constitution is very easily misinterpreted. So Muslims should not apply their religion well in the public space. So they are not allowed to wear headscarves or prayers in public spaces. If found, (they will be) put in radical groups. Then put in "The vocation camp, (being) considered not nationalist," Junaidi said.

This training center is filled with Uighur Muslims. They were given skills training there. The facts obtained there, the trainees were unable to worship freely in public spaces including the training center.

"If people fast, pray, are considered radical. It is not permissible in the camp. They can only offer prayers, read the Koran if they have returned to their homes. The issue of religion is a personal problem, it should not be shown in the public," he said

"We hope that the Chinese government will give Muslims the opportunity to perform ritual worship on the sidelines of their training. Participants are also entitled to Muslim food. Secondly, the CIA (China Islamic Association) (should be) included in the process of issuing fatwas about radicalism, religious viewpoints. ask and hope that the Chinese Government does not generalize Muslims who carry out worship related to radicalism, "Junaidi said.

https://news.detik.com/berita/d-4447233/usai-kunjungi-muslim-xinjiang-ini-langkah-delegasi-indonesia

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## war&peace

Itachi said:


> I'm here just to ask the questions that need to be asked and reveal the truth that should be....not spread half truths and lies.


That's a blatant lie...all your posts are filled with animosity and judgements. Show me where did you ask the questions?


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## Itachi

war&peace said:


> but that can easily be solved through discussion.



That's where you're gravely mistaken. Anyone that highlights such issues and you yourself know that these issues _exist _becomes an enemy of China or is asked to "not interfere in internal affairs". Or is threatened to not be traded with, etc etc

So yea, you can try but I already predict that an eye for an eye will solve the situation or at least bring China to talk on the table.



war&peace said:


> There are a lot of false flaggers on this forum.



Like me? 

I'm sure my identity fits with my geo-locations, surely the mods would have found out by now. 



war&peace said:


> That's a blatant lie...all your posts are filled with animosity and judgements. Show me where did you ask the questions?



You are free to look for yourself. The last 10 pages should be enough proof.


----------



## Char

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> What will you do?
> 
> Fighting nonexistent causes against Pakistan.
> 
> Honestly, Chinese members on PDF are the worst examples of their nation. Maybe you guys should go someplace else.
> 
> Nothing but loose cannons. What Is the difference between you and Indians?



All I did is normal reaction of what you have done.



Dubious said:


> Thread is not about Pakistan stop derailing it with your insecurities ....It will be counted as trolling!



only you can troll?
you are intervening Chinese internal affairs, good or bad is not your business, Islam is no special in China.


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## war&peace

Char said:


> All I did is normal reaction of what you have done.


Bro, both sides need to be careful, sensitive and wise..otherwise our enemies will succeed. You should learn a little a bit about Islam & Muslims and we should learn a bit about China. And respect is the key.


----------



## Itachi

Char said:


> only you can troll?
> you are intervene Chinese internal affairs, good or bad is not your business, Islam is no special in China.



@Dubious see??

They can nuke their whole population if it matters. We must not "interfere in Chinese internal matters...._good or bad" 
_
These poor souls don't know that if you live on Earth then you should expect to be critiqued by Earthlings too.


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## Char

Indos said:


> You can read by yourselves, it is Google translate of the Indonesian delegation who has been quoted
> 
> "This training center is alleged to be a concentration camp or re-education center," he said.
> 
> Junaidi saw the attitude of the Chinese government was inseparable from the trauma of the terror that occurred in the Bamboo Curtain country. The training center contains men and women who are allegedly exposed to radicalism.
> 
> "Broadly speaking, it is understood that the Chinese constitution is very easily misinterpreted. So Muslims should not apply their religion well in the public space. So they are not allowed to wear headscarves or prayers in public spaces. If found, (they will be) put in radical groups. Then put in "The vocation camp, (being) considered not nationalist," Junaidi said.
> 
> This training center is filled with Uighur Muslims. They were given skills training there. The facts obtained there, the trainees were unable to worship freely in public spaces including the training center.
> 
> "If people fast, pray, are considered radical. It is not permissible in the camp. They can only offer prayers, read the Koran if they have returned to their homes. The issue of religion is a personal problem, it should not be shown in the public," he said
> 
> "We hope that the Chinese government will give Muslims the opportunity to perform ritual worship on the sidelines of their training. Participants are also entitled to Muslim food. Secondly, the CIA (China Islamic Association) is included in the process of issuing fatwas about radicalism, religious viewpoints. ask and hope that the Chinese Government does not generalize Muslims who carry out worship related to radicalism, "Junaidi said.
> 
> https://news.detik.com/berita/d-4447233/usai-kunjungi-muslim-xinjiang-ini-langkah-delegasi-indonesia



This report is objective, but no religious actives in public is law, it's not for Islam only.


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## war&peace

Char said:


> only you can troll?


Nah, bro, @Dubious is a nice new mod and he is learning. But underneath he is a good person. 



Char said:


> you are intervening Chinese internal affairs, good or bad is not your business, Islam is no special in China.


Are you official representative of CPC?


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## Itachi

war&peace said:


> Are you official representative of CPC?



Might be the "false flagger" you're talking about.

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## Char

Itachi said:


> @Dubious see??
> 
> They can nuke their whole population if it matters. We must not "interfere in Chinese internal matters...._good or bad"
> _
> These poor souls don't know that if you live on Earth then you should expect to be critiqued by Earthlings too.



You jump more higher than me when I point fingers to your country.


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## war&peace

Char said:


> You jump more higher than me when I point fingers to your country.


This finger pointing should stop...after all, all fingers are small.


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## Char

war&peace said:


> Are you official representative of CPC?



official statement of any Chinese.


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## Aryan0395



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## Dubious

Char said:


> only you can troll?
> you are intervening Chinese internal affairs, good or bad is not your business, Islam is no special in China.


1) Where do you see me trolling?

I have mentioned multiple times QUESTIONING is not trolling...
Questioning is part of the discussion process if you cant reply, dont be part of the discussion coz clearly you cant answer nor can you keep your cool!



Char said:


> you are intervening Chinese internal affairs, good or bad is not your business, Islam is no special in China.


THIS is not a Chinese forum, nor us discussing about China is effecting China in any ways...

China is discussed by millions all over the world, with the behaviour you are showing, it kind of proves to AT LEAST THE PDF MEMBERS that Chinese members are INCAPABLE of discussing anything with!

So kindly leave if you cant keep your cool!



Char said:


> This report is objective, but no religious actives in public is law, it's not for Islam only.


And such a law is against BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS!

THAT is what the "report" is highlighting! Maybe in China the Chinese dont know what basic rights of a human means!



Char said:


> All I did is normal reaction of what you have done.


NORMAL? Then I suggest you seek professional help if that is normal...

However, if it is normal in China, I suggest you people stop replying, trolling and derailing PDF threads...THANK YOU!





Indos said:


> "Broadly speaking, it is understood that the Chinese constitution is very easily misinterpreted. So Muslims should not apply their religion well in the public space. So they are not allowed to wear headscarves or prayers in public spaces. If found, (they will be) put in radical groups. Then put in "The vocation camp, (being) considered not nationalist," Junaidi said.


THIS is abuse of human rights!

And IF these people are called terrorists JUST because they choose to have a religion then China is wrong on all accounts!

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## Aryan0395

Dubious said:


> Maybe in China the Chinese dont know what basic rights of a human means!


Maybe? 
Like credit score of individuals in all economies, China went one step ahead and introduced Social score. 
Sorry going off topic but replying to the human right question u had. 
continue

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## Dubious

Indos said:


> "We hope that the Chinese government will give Muslims the opportunity to perform ritual worship on the sidelines of their training. Participants are also entitled to Muslim food. Secondly, the CIA (China Islamic Association) (should be) included in the process of issuing fatwas about radicalism, religious viewpoints. ask and *hope that the Chinese Government does not generalize Muslims who carry out worship related to radicalism*, "Junaidi said.


UNFORTUNATELY the Chinese govt is!

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## Char

Dubious said:


> 1) Where do you see me trolling?
> 
> I have mentioned multiple times QUESTIONING is not trolling...
> Questioning is part of the discussion process if you cant reply, dont be part of the discussion coz clearly you cant answer nor can you keep your cool!
> 
> 
> THIS is not a Chinese forum, nor us discussing about China is effecting China in any ways...
> 
> China is discussed by millions all over the world, with the behaviour you are showing, it kind of proves to AT LEAST THE PDF MEMBERS that Chinese members are INCAPABLE of discussing anything with!
> 
> So kindly leave if you cant keep your cool!



So could you tell me why Christian women want to flee Pakistan via marriage? If they are persecuted?


----------



## Dubious

war&peace said:


> free to pray


Yes in their homes as the Chinese here already admitted and the "Western reports" declare...that the "concentration camps" are considered public spaces so as long as they are in these camps they cant pray...THAT IS 5 daily prayers missed per day in that camp!

And they can be in such a camp for as little as displaying religious practices in public spaces! *Just for small issues they are called radicalized and terrorists! *

Now we even object about Asia bibi and others who have been falsely accused of blasphemy for personal gains...How is this not false accusations and why cant we voice out?


China maybe our friend and help us in many ways...but they are harming 5x daily prayers of an individual coz of their skewed interpretation of their own laws!



Char said:


> So could you tell me why Christian women want to flee Pakistan via marriage? If they are persecuted?


How is it related to this thread? 
DO they want to or are the deceived into doing so? ALL reports suggest Chinese pimps are lying and "marrying" these ladies even your own govt admitted that it is a misdoing!

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## beijingwalker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> What I don’t understand is why chinese members think they can come here and insult our religion, culture, and identity without repercussions?
> 
> For a country with a fast growing economy, once in a lifetime opportunity of making alliances, and a responsible government, it is sad to see such uncivilized and frankly barbaric views among members here about Muslims, Turks, Arabs, Islam, and Pakistanis.
> 
> It is shameful.



All Chinese come to this forum are or were very pro Pakistan, we have no reason to attack Pakistan for anything, no Chinese comes to this forum with the intention of picking fight against Pakistan, as for some recent hostility between some posters from both sides against each other, we all know how it started, it was not caused by Chinese posters accusing Pakistan about Pakistani internal affairs, even after Chinese facilities were regularly attacked and some Chinese nationals were kidnapped and killed in Pakistan, Chinese government and posters here were all on the Pakistan's side and supported Pakistan at those difficult times.

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## Dubious

Char said:


> only you can troll?
> you are intervening Chinese internal affairs, good or bad is not your business, Islam is no special in China.


and your repeated trolling has earned you a your last strike!

Congratulations!

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## masterchief_mirza

Itachi said:


> Spot on....my intention is not to troll otherwise I would be doing that...
> 
> 
> I'm here just to ask the questions that need to be asked and reveal the truth that should be....not spread half truths and lies.
> 
> 
> 
> Look in my history, you'll find all that you need to find. If you're accusing me then go on. I have been accused of being a Indian, a CIA agent, a American paid stooge and much more.
> 
> I'll add your accusations to the list too.
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly...._yes_, anyone that acts like a Muslim or/& talks like a Muslim is a existential threat to the CPC/Chinese govt.....they need (or think they need) a "iron hand" over Xinjiang.
> 
> If you didn't know this already, the Chinese govt. has been actively importing Han Chinese to Xinjiang to dilute the Uyghur/other Muslim minority population. That itself signifies mal intent.


As others have said, the Chinese do not wish to target and eradicate Muslims, like many other nations do wish they could. China wishes to eradicate separatism and diminish the footprint of ALL religions equally in line with its socialist policy. We can all see the problems that the unchecked rise in Christian fundamentalism is having in Hong Kong. It is no surprise that separatism and singing hallelujah go hand in hand for these pseudo-Christians. Note how even non-Christians jumped on the hallelujah bandwagon during the protests. It is clearly a threat and even a tactic to use religion to disguise separatism in China, hence they have ways to counter this.

In Pak we deal with extremists in ways that have some similarities to what the Chinese do, some differences, as objectives and threats are slightly different.

If China's approach produces a population of loyal, hard-working citizens who can privately retain their religious and cultural identity, then people should be able to sleep easy and give these cyclical arguments a rest already. Any referencing of western propaganda is hypocritical and a waste of time as the same propaganda sources damage Pakistan and Muslims even more than they damage China.



beijingwalker said:


> All Chinese come to this forum are or were very pro Pakistan, we have no reason to attack Pakistan for anything, no Chinese comes to this forum with the intention of picking fight against Pakistan, as for some recent hostility between some posters from both sides against each other, we all know how it was started, it was not caused by Chinese poster accusing Pakistan about Pakistani internal affairs, even after Chinese facilities were regularly attacked and some Chinese nationals were kidnapped and killed, Chinese government and posters here were all on the Pakistan's side and supported Pakistan at those difficult times.


All of Pak - including those in Pak and expats - has the utmost respect for China's many different modes of support for the Pakistani nation, regardless of a few pdf members stubborn attitudes. And yes, we should cooperate in some fields of counterterrorism too as some of China's methods are clearly successful.

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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> Yes in their homes as the Chinese here already admitted and the "Western reports" declare...that the "concentration camps" are considered public spaces so as long as they are in these camps they cant pray...THAT IS 5 daily prayers missed per day in that camp!
> 
> And they can be in such a camp for as little as displaying religious practices in public spaces! *Just for small issues they are called radicalized and terrorists! *
> 
> Now we even object about Asia bibi and others who have been falsely accused of blasphemy for personal gains...How is this not false accusations and why cant we voice out?
> 
> 
> China maybe our friend and help us in many ways...but they are harming 5x daily prayers of an individual coz of their skewed interpretation of their own laws!


It is complicated and we need to work together and sort it out amicably. Not by pointing fingers.

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## Dubious

war&peace said:


> It is complicated and we need to work together and sort it out amicably. Not by pointing fingers.


Well then tell the Chinese members to behave! Unkay baap ka forum nai hai!

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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> Well then tell the Chinese members to behave! Unkay baap ka forum nai hai!


As if they accept what I tell them

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> All Chinese come to this forum are or *were* very pro Pakistan



What changed? Some people asking you tough questions?



beijingwalker said:


> some Chinese nationals were kidnapped and killed in Pakistan



*By India*. Don't leave that out.



beijingwalker said:


> Chinese government and posters here *were* all on the Pakistan's side and supported Pakistan at those difficult times.



Again, what changed?

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## beijingwalker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> What changed? Some people asking you tough questions?


Xinjiang disputes did change many Chinese posters views about Pakistan, of course the other way around is also true.

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## war&peace

beijingwalker said:


> All Chinese come to this forum are or were very pro Pakistan, we have no reason to attack Pakistan for anything, no Chinese comes to this forum with the intention of picking fight against Pakistan, as for some recent hostility between some posters from both sides against each other, we all know how it started, it was not caused by Chinese posters accusing Pakistan about Pakistani internal affairs, even after Chinese facilities were regularly attacked and some Chinese nationals were kidnapped and killed in Pakistan, Chinese government and posters here were all on the Pakistan's side and supported Pakistan at those difficult times.


So you're saying that just a few members can change your opinion?

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang disputes did change many Chinese posters views about Pakistan, of course the other way around is also true.



Really, because my viewpoint about China is unchanged. I am still supportive of the government of China.

It will be good to get all the facts out, so that we know what we are dealing with. I hope that China can increase its media presence in the Muslim world and disprove Western allegations.

Most of all, we want to see that *freedom of religion* is maintained. As long as Muslims are allowed to pray five times daily, keep dietary restrictions, fast in Ramazan, read Quran, have access to authentic religious scholarship and knowledge, go to mosques and religious classes, and wear beard, hijab, niqab, and other religious garb, *the rest is the business of China.*

If this is not the case, every single Muslim country needs to come together to lobby our friend China to change these rules, including Pakistan.

This issue has the potential to limit China’s geopolitical influence in the Muslim world to just Pakistan, CARs, and SEA. It is a very serious matter.

I sincerely hope this is not the case.

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## Brainsucker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> We stood behind you in your toughest times and helped you reach detente with the US, while you were facing attacks by USSR.
> 
> We helped you establish ties and build a lifeline from your country to the Arabian Sea, giving you secure access to the ME. Malacca straits are dangerous due to US naval pressure.
> 
> We cooperated for decades together in containing India and supporting you in Tibet.
> 
> Even today, we are defending you against the whole Muslim world and Western propaganda on charges of abusing and detaining Uyghurs.
> 
> We are allies, this is not in doubt.
> 
> Hope you would see it properly.



Yes. Thats why once again be patient. Like i said in another thread, china and pakistan have a very different in fundamental belief and value. Like it or not, they are a communist country

They burnt all religious worship center in their cultural revolution long time ago. Including their traditional belief like dao and confucius.

Even recently they prosecute fanlun gong that based on daoism teaching. So you cant expect them to accept islam.

The best way you can is to continously influence them with friendly acts. So they will softened and accept your value and belief

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Brainsucker said:


> The best way you can is to continously influence them with friendly acts. So they will softened and accept your value and belief



I think so, as well.

Unfortunately, Western money comes to spoil everything and add violence to another region of the world.

Uyghur Turks, who have been allies and a part of China for hundreds of years, can and will live peacefully with the Chinese again.

They are a friendly and quiet community, and we need to show China and its public that they should not fear Islam and Muslims, but join together with us against our common foes.

We have a shared destiny, which can only be accomplished with cooperation.

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## Brainsucker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I think so, as well.
> 
> Unfortunately, Western money comes to spoil everything and add violence to another region of the world.
> 
> Uyghur Turks, who have been allies and a part of China for hundreds of years, can and will live peacefully with the Chinese again.
> 
> They are a friendly and quiet community, and we need to show China and its public that they should not fear Islam and Muslims, but join together with us against our common foes.
> 
> We have a shared destiny, which can only be accomplished with cooperation.



Just show China that Islam is not a frightening beast, but a peaceful and helpful buddy. They just opened up recently. By giving Islam some privilege. Like Halal food, some Muslim development in some area, like Xian, etc. You must realize that it is impossible to happen some decade ago in China. So, it is a progress. You shouldn't kill this progress by antagonize them right now. Because it will break everything and return to zero again.

Maybe Uyghur get some inconvenience right now because of the slicer terrorists some years ago. But I'm sure that it will be temporary. Sooner or later, they will come back to their belief, as Uyghur tradition is close to Islam. The point is, Pakistani Friends should encourage cooperation and culture-exchange. And give a friendly push for China to accept that Religions are not monster. To form a bridge between two civilizations. You may lose some old mosques in Uyghur right now. But if everything goes well, the destroyed one will be replaced with more Mosques in all Xinjiang (and maybe more, in all China). it is a good trade, I think.

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> Pakistan is a diverse country!
> 
> You will see people of all skin tones /facial features in Pakistan


China is also a very diverse country, from frigid Siberian reindeer herders to tropical elephant tamers, the reason that most people think China is homogeneous is because China has a large ethnic Han population, but minorities if added up are also over 100 million people, more than the population of most countries in this world.

Traveler from Taiwan visits ethnic Russian family in a Russia village in north Xinjiang

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## Pakhtoon yum

Speak pakhto and urdu. As for looking different then that's your ignorance. Pakistan is not a homogeneous state. The population goes from blonde and blues eyes to black and curly hair. 

Regarding your minorities, then everyone knows how communist love their minorities.



Dubious said:


> Pakistan is a diverse country!
> 
> You will see people of all skin tones /facial features in Pakistan


It's like he completely ignored what you said. Wonder how much he gets paid.

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## Rasengan

Brainsucker said:


> Yes. Thats why once again be patient. Like i said in another thread, china and pakistan have a very different in fundamental belief and value. Like it or not, they are a communist country
> 
> They burnt all religious worship center in their cultural revolution long time ago. Including their traditional belief like dao and confucius.
> 
> Even recently they prosecute fanlun gong that based on daoism teaching. So you cant expect them to accept islam.
> 
> The best way you can is to continously influence them with friendly acts. So they will softened and accept your value and belief



There has never been a communists state in this world because it's a utopia system which all socialists state endeavour to achieve. Its why people like Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky and Mao used the words "We must continue the revolution." 

China under no circumstances can be defined as a pure socialists state because capitalism exists. Capitalism in some shape or form will always be at odds with workers right. The Chinese were themselves confused hence why they came up with a new name "Socialism with Chinese characteristics." 

They burned all books from religion to Chinese ancient philosophy. One of the things I find fascinating, Chairman Mao didn't stop the cultural revolution but he had an extensive collection of books. Chinese people won't admit this openly, but they regard these events as shameful. But today, in most Chinese formal settings, at least in SOEs, the number one topic is Confucianism even though it's not practised in Govt. Ancient Chinese traditions are emerging across China. Falong Gong was prosecuted because the founder was running a scheme. Naturally, people complained and the Govt had to take action. We don't have to believe the Chinese system and vice versa. We have a common goal, which stems into economics, geo-strategic interests and exchange of ideas. Pakistan will be China's gateway to the Muslim world, just like how Hong Kong is the gateway for western business into mainland China.

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## Itachi

Char said:


> You jump more higher than me when I point fingers to your country.



I don't jump anywhere. I could care less of your false assumptions and lies about Pakistan.



Char said:


> So could you tell me why Christian women want to flee Pakistan via marriage? If they are persecuted?



Nope, never happened. Provide a source if it's true.



masterchief_mirza said:


> China wishes to eradicate separatism and diminish the footprint of ALL religions equally in line with its socialist policy.



It does more than that if you look into all the evidence posted by me and Indos in the last 12 pages. The Uyghurs have tried _twice _in the past to get indepence and did (don't know if once or both times). They were later annexed again by China. Do remember, Xinjiang was annexed by China in the last 300-400 years, just like America was colonized by the Europeans. So the Han Chinese are the invaders and the Uyghurs are the natives, not the other way around.

The Uyghurs have wanted independence because of Chinese policies of brutality, violence, torture and many other nasty stuff.

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## Brainsucker

Rasengan said:


> There has never been a communists state in this world because it's a utopia system which all socialists state endeavour to achieve. Its why people like Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky and Mao used the words "We must continue the revolution."
> 
> China under no circumstances can be defined as a pure socialists state because capitalism exists. Capitalism in some shape or form will always be at odds with workers right. The Chinese were themselves confused hence why they came up with a new name "Socialism with Chinese characteristics."
> 
> They burned all books from religion to Chinese ancient philosophy. One of the things I find fascinating, Chairman Mao didn't stop the cultural revolution but he had an extensive collection of books. Chinese people won't admit this openly, but they regard these events as shameful. But today, in most Chinese formal settings, at least in SOEs, the number one topic is Confucianism even though it's not practised in Govt. Ancient Chinese traditions are emerging across China. Falong Gong was prosecuted because the founder was running a scheme. Naturally, people complained and the Govt had to take action. We don't have to believe the Chinese system and vice versa. We have a common goal, which stems into economics, geo-strategic interests and exchange of ideas. Pakistan will be China's gateway to the Muslim world, just like how Hong Kong is the gateway for western business into mainland China.



Yes, I agree with you. But I have to make some Pakistani Friends here understand. How can they understand and accept what some Chinese Friends here to said, if they don't give any damn understanding that China was, and maybe still a Communist Country that controlled by a Communist Regime. Communism has long gone from China since Deng Xiaoping, but the value still there. And you want them to become a religious country suddenly?

But, although they're communist, there are already many progress in China in term of respecting religion. They have give you some compromise, although they demand some compromise from religion too. Long time ago, specially in Cultural Revolution era, it was impossible for you to practice your religion. Now, you practically can worship your God there. There are many functioning mosques, temples, and churches. Today, you can find halal food, Universities give Islam some privilege, so both Muslim Professors and Students can enjoy halal food from separated canteen, etc. Even Indonesian Muslim Students feel satisfied and enjoy their religious life in China.

Isn't that what you call "PROGRESS" ?

So, I'm with @beijingwalker here.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Most of all, we want to see that *freedom of religion* is maintained. As long as Muslims are allowed to pray five times daily, keep dietary restrictions, fast in Ramazan, read Quran, have access to authentic religious scholarship and knowledge, go to mosques and religious classes, and wear beard, hijab, niqab, and other religious garb, *the rest is the business of China.*



It require another progress, bro. But this progress require "Trust" from both side. Without that, no more progress will be happen to both side.

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## Rasengan

Brainsucker said:


> Yes, I agree with you. But I have to make some Pakistani Friends here understand. How can they understand and accept what some Chinese Friends here to said, if they don't give any damn understanding that China was, and maybe still a Communist Country that controlled by a Communist Regime. Communism has long gone from China since Deng Xiaoping, but the value still there. And you want them to become a religious country suddenly?
> 
> But, although they're communist, there are already many progress in China in term of respecting religion. They have give you some compromise, although they demand some compromise from religion too. Long time ago, specially in Cultural Revolution era, it was impossible for you to practice your religion. Now, you practically can worship your God there. There are many functioning mosques, temples, and churches. Today, you can find halal food, Universities give Islam some privilege, so both Muslim Professors and Students can enjoy halal food from separated canteen, etc. Even Indonesian Muslim Students feel satisfied and enjoy their religious life in China.
> 
> Isn't that what you call "PROGRESS" ?
> 
> So, I'm with @beijingwalker here.
> 
> 
> 
> It require another progress, bro. But this progress require "Trust" from both side. Without that, no more progress will be happen to both side.



I agree with your sentiment. Since the open door policy, China has made significant progress in respecting religion. Buddhism is once again flourishing without prosecution, people are practising Daoism and Christianity is making a stamp in the country. Every city has a mosque and halal restaurants. I don't have any problems with the CPC Govt, I have made my views clear how I admire their efficiency and public service. With a big country like China with a large population, you are bound to have some problems. 

However, I do have an issue with Chinese members who become emotional. They are representing their country, henceforth instead of throwing mud, they should educate people on the ground reality. When they insult Muslim's, they are essentially attacking 50 Muslim countries and that is a diplomatic catastrophe. The Chinese Govt themselves want to bridge a relationship with the Muslim world. Look how many Pakistani's have defended China on this forum. Only a few individuals were hostile, but this changed the mindset of our Chinese brothers who view the relationship differently. This speaks of weakness, clearly, they need to leave the bubble and learn to see the world not as black and white. The Chinese culture has a long history, of preaching patience, reasoning and behaving with good manners, so they shouldn't forget their roots. But I have made it clear to both Chinese and Pakistani's. Our opinion means nothing, it's worthless because the boss in China is CPC and the boss in Pakistan is the military. They get to decide our future...full stop.

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## Asimzranger

viva_zhao said:


> Many Pakistan ethnics looks handsome and pretty. Pakistan should support your Hollywood and go to the world stage. The diversity in ethnics and cultures is the fortune for good movies, musics and drama. A prosperous Pakistan has huge potential.


There are many with Pakistani background in hollywood kumail nanjiani from Karachi and Riz Ahmed British Pakistani these are just some examples.

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## Brainsucker

Dubious said:


> I dont think he can comprehend that...For them to have even 5% non Han is a big deal!



Actually, the people that you call as Han is not a single ethnicity. They're more diverse than you think. But they're culturally similar; because they have been sinicized for a very long time, since the old dynasties of China. And Hui Muslim is actually not a single ethnicity, either. There are some Han in them, also. They're Hui because they're Muslim. Hui = Islam, that's why they call Islam as Hui Ciao (Hui religion).

In Han, there are Hakka, Min Nan, Canton, etc.

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## Pakhtoon yum

Brainsucker said:


> Actually, the people that you call as Han is not a single ethnicity. They're more diverse than you think. But they're culturally similar; because they have been sinicized for a very long time, since the old dynasties of China. And Hui Muslim is actually not a single ethnicity, either. There are some Han in them, also. They're Hui because they're Muslim. Hui = Islam, that's why they call Islam as Hui Ciao (Hui religion).
> 
> In Han, there are Hakka, Min Nan, Canton, etc.


Yes, but no offense, they all look the same.



beijingwalker said:


> Yes, we do have preferential treatment for minorities, they didn't even have to comply with China's one child policy in the past.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_China
> 
> 
> As much as you get paid.
> 
> 
> Most countries do, especially big continental size countries like Russia, China and India.


As free as they could be under a totalitarian regime. Also thay map is complete bullshiz.


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## beijingwalker

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Yes, but no offense, they all look the same.


Han people from north east China are much taller and fairskinned while from the far south are shorter . darker and look somewhat south eastern Asian.



Pakhtoon yum said:


> thay map is complete bullshiz.


Why? Which part of the map you don't agree with?



Dubious said:


> they cant even pray openly...
> 
> What is the "excuse" given to ban prayers?


I started this thread with no intention to demean Pakistan, I didn't even know they were Pakistanis, Pakistani Mod and posters don't have to be that hostile and accuse China in every thread no matter if they are related or not.

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## Pakhtoon yum

beijingwalker said:


> Han people from north east China are much taller and fairskinned while from the far south are shorter . darker and look somewhat south eastern Asian.
> 
> 
> Why? Which part of the map you don't agree with?
> 
> 
> I started this thread with no intention to demean Pakistan, I didn't even know they were Pakistanis, Pakistani Mod and posters don't have to be that hostile and accuse China in every thread no matter if they are related or not.


Circumstances(mostly the doings of the communist regime) has lowered the the love for China, immensely. Basically if this doesnt stop then it will turn into hate. The ignorance and islamophobic rhetoric by Chinese members on PDF also isnt helping, China. 

The map is BS, in accordance to Pakistan because they're are white, black and brown southerners, just like with northerners. It's stupid and incorrect to paint it with such a broad brush.


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## beijingwalker

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Circumstances(mostly the doings of the communist regime) has lowered the the love for China, immensely. Basically if this doesnt stop then it will turn into hate.


Always remember,it goes both ways.



Pakhtoon yum said:


> The map is BS, in accordance to Pakistan


Ok, don't you know name is Pakistan.


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## Pakhtoon yum

beijingwalker said:


> Always remember,it goes both ways.
> 
> 
> Ok, don't you know name is Pakistan.


What goes both ways? 
Name of what? Southern regions are parts of sindh and balochistan.


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## beijingwalker

Pakhtoon yum said:


> What goes both ways?


Love and hate go both ways, you hate someone and you don't expect that someone will love you either. But as I mentioned, some people want to turn my every thread into a China bashing and accusation ones, that's pathetic. we don't come here to attack other countries, we are here promote our respective nations.

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## Pakhtoon yum

beijingwalker said:


> Love and hate go both ways, you hate someone and you don't expect that someone will love you either. But as I mentioned, some people want to turn my every thread into a China bashing and accusation ones, that's pathetic. we don't come here to attack other countries, we are here promote our respective nations.


Talk to me after you take that trip to Xinjiang. Looking forward to your posts from there. Do make sure you record the azan and people praying

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## Indos

beijingwalker said:


> I think they look more middle easterners than south Asians, I thought they must be from some middle east nations.



South Asian is quite divers, particularly Pakistan, here are Pakistani volley ball team. 















Pasthun Women











Punjabi Women

Former Foreign Minister, Hina Rabbani

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## vi-va

Indos said:


> South Asian is quite divers, particularly Pakistan, here are Pakistani volley ball team.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pasthun Women
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Punjabi Women
> 
> Former Foreign Minister, Hina Rabbani



Former Foreign Minister, Hina Rabbani is amazing. I like her for quite a few years. I saw her visiting India years back and Indian's bad mouth all over youtube about her voice.

I watched all her interview about Pakistan foreign policy, especially relationship with India, straight forward and insightful.

She was born in a rich family, well educated, elegant and stylish.

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## Indos

viva_zhao said:


> Former Foreign Minister, Hina Rabbani is amazing. I like her for quite a few years. I saw her visiting India years back and Indian's bad mouth all over youtube about her voice.
> 
> I watched all her interview about Pakistan foreign policy, especially relationship with India, straight forward and insightful.
> 
> She was born in a rich family, well educated, elegant and stylish.



I am agree on you bro, she is a good representative for Pakistan. I also saw her interview in Al Jazeera and I must admit that she is a combination of strong and clever beside being attractive. Usually foreign ministers are men but she can break up that stereotype while being professional, young and pretty.

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## Dubious

viva_zhao said:


> Pakistan should support your Hollywood and go to the world stage. The diversity in ethnics and cultures is the fortune for good movies, musics and drama.


I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not...

If not... 

Why should Pakistan support Hollywood? Or do you mean our Hollywood? We got Lollywood (L for Lahore)
We have been on and off world stage - preforming folk and pop music (less to do with facial features and more to do with talent)
Yes ethnics and culture is good for movies and drama we got few musicians from different backgrounds...



Pakistansdefender said:


> While posting pics why you choose Indian punjabi women instead of pakistani Punjabi. Pakistani women don't dress like that.


I was choosing facial features over dress...



beijingwalker said:


> That's a very strange accusation, first, very few minority groups pray, and the numbers of Han Christians and Buddists are hundreds of millions, they are not ethnic minorities. Second, China has countless churches, Buddist templse and mosque sin every city, town and even village where we see people pray all the time, why do you say they can't pray, should I believe my own eyes or you say so?


You claimed they cant pray in public places even institution! When I was in Europe, I had told them I prayed 5x a day, my institute told me I am free to use *any free classroom/ seminar room* to pray.

When the West accuse you of oppression, this is the difference they base it on!



beijingwalker said:


> I can post more pictures showing China's diversity than you do, but that's not my point, my point is China has over 100 million minorities, the reason why China is usually being consider as a homogeneous nation is because over 90% of her population is Han, that's also true. But those who really traveled in China are still amazed by China's diversity, if you go to Tibet, Xinjiang, some part of inner Mongolia..., each of those regions is bigger in size than Pakistan and you sense that you are not traveling in China.
> 
> China is homogeneous, yes, China has great diversity, yes.


I think to answer this ...you can read another member's post!




Brainsucker said:


> Actually, the people that you call as Han is not a single ethnicity. They're more diverse than you think. *But they're culturally similar; because they have been sinicized for a very long time, since the old dynasties of China.* And Hui Muslim is actually not a single ethnicity, either. There are some Han in them, also. They're Hui because they're Muslim. Hui = Islam, that's why they call Islam as Hui Ciao (Hui religion).
> 
> In Han, there are Hakka, Min Nan, Canton, etc.


That is interesting ...I know few Hakka and Fochow/ Fuzhou (I though it was just a language language also Hokkian)

You see when over 90% is 1 group (irrespective of how diverse you think that group is...it is still over 90%)

The groups I showed you of Pakistanis:

Punjabi - these can be ethnically Punjabi or another Ethnic group staying in Punjab for a few generations and therefore even the group Punjabi is diverse! And within each ethnic group of Pakistan we also have cross marriages...So you can easily find a Punjabi Kashmiri or something...some groups are like naturally mixed like Sindhi Baloch and so on...

So EACH group is diverse between OTHER groups and WITHIN the group itself! THIS is not the case when you have 90% of 1 group being diverse within yet being 1 group representing 90% is showing more homogeneity than anything! Its like 10% away from being clones!



beijingwalker said:


> Han people from north east China are much taller and fairskinned while from the far south are shorter . darker and look somewhat south eastern Asian.


Can you give examples with pictures of some of these "diverse" people?



beijingwalker said:


> I started this thread with no intention to demean Pakistan, I didn't even know they were Pakistanis, Pakistani Mod and posters don't have to be that hostile and accuse China in every thread no matter if they are related or not.


This isnt accusing but pointing out something you agreed to and admitted after months of people pointing out the EXACT same thing!

As for demeaning any country...China isnt demeaned if that is how you people behave and consider a norm! I mean the West has been screaming about basic human right abuse but it is not like China has bothered to give its approach a second look! We have a saying "sharam usko atti hai jisko sharam ka pata ho" -only he / she who knows what is shame can be ashamed!



beijingwalker said:


> Love and hate go both ways, you hate someone and you don't expect that someone will love you either. But as I mentioned, some people want to turn my every thread into a China bashing and accusation ones, that's pathetic. we don't come here to attack other countries, we are here promote our respective nations.


Why do you feel "bashed" for pointing out the "normal" in China? So you do know it is wrong then? Coz if it was "normal" and "ok" you would feel proud someone is pointing out what you country is doing!



Pakhtoon yum said:


> Talk to me after you take that trip to Xinjiang. Looking forward to your posts from there. Do make sure you record the azan and people praying


I dont expect them to have adhaan...even West has no Adhaan! So that is irrelevant!

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## beijingwalker

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Talk to me after you take that trip to Xinjiang. Looking forward to your posts from there. Do make sure you record the azan and people praying


When did you take that trip? Why do you take that trip too?



Dubious said:


> Can you give examples with pictures of some of these "diverse" people?


I have threads about Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang, Guangxi... tons of photos you can check.

Ethnicitis in Xinjiang alone







Dubious said:


> This isnt accusing but pointing out something you agreed to and admitted after months of people pointing out the EXACT same thing!
> 
> As for demeaning any country...China isnt demeaned if that is how you people behave and consider a norm! I mean the West has been screaming about basic human right abuse but it is not like China has bothered to give its approach a second look! We have a saying "sharam usko atti hai jisko sharam ka pata ho" -only he / she who knows what is shame can be ashamed!
> 
> 
> Why do you feel "bashed" for pointing out the "normal" in China? So you do know it is wrong then? Coz if it was "normal" and "ok" you would feel proud someone is pointing out what you country is doing!
> 
> 
> I dont expect them to have adhaan...even West has no Adhaan! So that is irrelevant!



You can talk about it, but do you think putting every thread into that debate is good? This thread has nothing to do with what you are accusing China of doing, you just jumped in accusing China out of nowhere. The west also accused Pakistan the worst human rights and religious persecution abuser, so if you accept what they say about China, you also have to accept what they say about Pakistan.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Ethnicitis in Xinjiang alone


So these are your minorities ...I am asking about the diversity in the 90% HAN



beijingwalker said:


> You can talk about it, but do you think putting every thread into that debate is good?


No, but you never answer it in the thread it is intended to!



beijingwalker said:


> This thread has nothing to do with what you are accusing China of doing, you just jumped in accusing China out of nowhere.


No, it doesnt have anything to do with the thread and that is why I am willing to move all my posts to the relevant thread where you never seem to answer 



beijingwalker said:


> The west also accused Pakistan the worst human rights and religious persecution abuser, so if you accept what they say about China, you also have to accept what they say about Pakistan.


We Pakistanis do admit there are SOME problems and on the other thread I did clarify the Asia bibi case which was one of the bigger cases that the West had entangled itself in!

So when will you have the balls to admit there is some wrong in what China is doing?


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## yantong1980

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Talk to me after you take that trip to Xinjiang. Looking forward to your posts from there. Do make sure you record the azan and people praying



It's YOU that should drag your lazy ars* to Xinjiang and 'record' what do you to know directly into your brain-SEE IT for YOURSELF. DO NOT TELL Chinese poster here what to do, you're just like other poster here. Your problem is YOURS, BLAMING others not an SOLUTION.


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Whatever you say, I saw them being banned by you one after another, soon the only ones left will be your like minded buddies. Congrats.


lolz
If you really feel there was some unfair banning

As per forum rules, *you are allowed to challenge the "ban"* (which again was a 3rd strike)...3 strikes at once is a ban...Now if your countrymates are going to come on the forum drunk, abuse and BS other members and nationals...then they will get nothing but a ban!

Instead of arguing with me, tell them to be in their best behavior...We arent their parents to tolerate their BS! We have rules, you break them you go..Simple...like in China you get punishment for breaking some laws!

You are free to challenge ANY strike that I have given your countrymen! Take the case to GHQ!



beijingwalker said:


> don't represent China, I represent myself, a Chinese poster, that's it.


Good to know there is still hope for the Chinese people since you dont represent China!

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## beijingwalker

"concentration camps" girls classic team dance






"concentration camps"women train to become makeup artists


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## TheTruth

Dubious said:


> lolz
> If you really feel there was some unfair banning
> 
> Good to know there is still hope for the Chinese people since you dont represent China!



"Uyghur persecution" is nothing more than an unsubstantiated lie by Western MSM and you're drinking up every drop. They don't even need to give you a shred of proof. Disgusting.

And the Han Chinese are very diverse, unlike almost all ethnic groups in the world the Chinese are tolerant enough to have wide genetic variation in their ethnic group.


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> Good to know there is still hope for the Chinese people since you dont represent China!


Everyone only represents themselves, not their countries or governments, do you represent Pakistan or Pakistani government? you can make a poll among Pakistanis to see how many of them actaully support you.

As for China's hope, to you China is hopeless, cause on Xinjiang issue most Chinese share my mind not yours, of course you can also make a poll to see if what I said is true.


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## Dubious

TheTruth said:


> "Uyghur persecution" is nothing more than an unsubstantiated lie by Western MSM and you're drinking up every drop. They don't even need to give you a shred of proof.


I think there are plenty of "VIDEOS" going around even BBC's and @Indos posted something from Indonesia even UN visitor also was not "exceptionally pleased"...he also recommended some "changes"

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> I think there are plenty of "VIDEOS" going around even BBC's and @Indos posted something from Indonesia even UN visitor also was not "exceptionally pleased"...he also recommended some "changes"


I guess the one who posted most Xinjiang videos in this forum is me, at least give me this credit,lol


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Everyone only represent only themselves but not their country or government, do you represent Pakistan or Pakistani government? you can make a poll among Pakistanis to see how many of them actaully support you.


O you will be disappointed!

We support the country not individual Chinese members coz we have seen enough of you guys going around openly trolling and bad mouthing even Pakistan!



beijingwalker said:


> As for China's hope, to you China is hopeless, cause in Xinjiang most Chinese share my mind not yours, of cause you can also make a poll to see if what I said is righ


I never said that! You need to take English lessons you seem to "assume" more than you can capture from any individual post! You can ask anyone and they will tell you the same!



> in Xinjiang most Chinese share my mind


 Sure after being brainwashed...who wouldnt? Being threatened to a concentration camp if they dont behave like "Han" people...Sure!

You are free to make such polls to satisfy your ego...I have no insecurities that need to be addressed 



beijingwalker said:


> I guess the one who posted most Xinjiang videos is me, at least give me this credit,lol


I wouldnt know if those are real videos or not...even you being Chinese cant differentiate between other Chinese people (you admitted few posts above), what more me?


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> We support the country not individual Chinese members coz we have seen enough of you guys going around openly trolling and bad mouthing even Pakistan!



Why they badmouth EVEN Pakistan? They come here with hate towards Pakistan? to be honest, do you think that Pakistanis badmouth China more or the other way around here? and who started this hostility?



Dubious said:


> I wouldnt know if those are real videos or not...even you being Chinese cant differentiate between other Chinese people (you admitted few posts above), what more me?


So you know those China bashing videos are real and mine are fake, a really good Mod.



Dubious said:


> Sure after being brainwashed...who wouldnt? Being threatened to a concentration camp if they dont behave like "Han" people...Sure!


Whoever hold a different opinions of yours are brainwashed? Many Pakistani posters and posters from other countries also support China's policy in Xinjiang, of course, they are also brainwashed.


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Why they badmouth EVEN Pakistan? They come here with hate towards Pakistan? to be honest, do you think that Pakistanis badmouth China more or the other way around here? and who started this hostility?


Hands down Chinese members are more hostile! Even your own friend @Brainsucker stated that some come as drunk and badmouth everyone!

VERY FEW Pakistanis even care about China and Chinese people - coz we have our own issues and we are dealing with it...But Chinese members have taken our hospitality as a  to troll! 



beijingwalker said:


> So you know those China bashing videos are real and mine are fake, a really good Mod.


Did I say that?

Again ASSUMPTIONS ...read my post again 


Dubious said:


> I wouldnt know if those are real videos or not...even you being Chinese cant differentiate between other Chinese people (you admitted few posts above), what more me?




if that is what you read then I suggest you go back to your English teacher and ask him/ her for your fees back coz he/ she was unable to teach you English!



beijingwalker said:


> Why they badmouth EVEN Pakistan?


Ask them why they do such things? MOST got banned for bad mouthing EVERYONE ....indians, BD, Taiwanese, Vietnamese and EVEN Pakistanis!



beijingwalker said:


> Whoever hold a different opinions of yours are brainwashed?


No, but whoever thinks it is ok to make someone lose their culture and forbade prayers in public places like a school/ institution or those who think praying in a public place is TERRORISM is brainwashed!



beijingwalker said:


> Many Pakistani posters and posters from other countries also support China's policy in Xinjiang, of course, they are also brainwashed.


Many dont support...they are quite about it coz our govt is! Doesnt mean they support...If you read that as support then we know you ONLY know oppression and brainwashing!


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> Hands down Chinese members are more hostile! Even your own friend @Brainsucker stated that some come as drunk and badmouth everyone!
> 
> VERY FEW Pakistanis even care about China and Chinese people - coz we have our own issues and we are dealing with it...But Chinese members have taken our hospitality as a  to troll!


Oh, really, so Chinese posters come her to attack Pakistan, about what in Pakistan? You believe Chinese really caree about Pakistan? to be frank, many can't tell the difference between Pakistna and Palestine.


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## Dubious

TheTruth said:


>


Putting a figure without the figure information doesnt tell anyone much!


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## Indos

Dubious said:


> I think there are plenty of "VIDEOS" going around even BBC's and @Indos posted something from Indonesia even UN visitor also was not "exceptionally pleased"...he also recommended some "changes"



Thats true, here is the link in Indonesian language about Indonesian delegation fact finding during visiting "vocational training" in XinJiang. 

https://news.detik.com/berita/d-4447233/usai-kunjungi-muslim-xinjiang-ini-langkah-delegasi-indonesia

BBC visit at "vocational training"

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> if that is what you read then I suggest you go back to your English teacher and ask him/ her for your fees back coz he/ she was unable to teach you English!


Ok, I still think I can make most people understand me, even my first language is not English, I m not ashamed of that, I m Chinese, at least I can speak two languages, better than most Americans.


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Oh, really, so Chinese posters come her to attack Pakistan, about what in Pakistan? You believe Chinese really caree about Pakistan? to be frank, many can't tell the difference between Pakistna and Palestine.


IF that is what you understood from my post...I really suggest you get some extra English lessons!


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> IF that is what you understood from my post...I really suggest you get some extra English lessons!


I've been around in this forum for many years, I m OK with what I can understand here, but thank you though.


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## Rasengan

beijingwalker said:


> Oh, really, so Chinese posters come her to attack Pakistan, about what in Pakistan? You believe Chinese really caree about Pakistan? to be frank, many can't tell the difference between Pakistna and Palestine.



If they can't tell the difference between Pakistan and Palestine then it explains their stupidity. Chinese people don't care but their opinion means nothing, not when the big boss known as the CPC wants a relationship with Pakistan. I don't need a forum to tell me this, I have met enough military and political officials to understand this sentiment. 

The Chinese will obey the wishes of the CPC, and Pakistani's will obey the wishes of the military. But I expected better from Chinese members. I wanted them to refute these claims in a calm manner without sounding insecure. But instead, they read a couple of hostile posts and did exactly what the opposing side wanted you to do. They all fell into that trap, even though I kept repeating like a broken record player how the majority of Pakistani's don't feel this way. But please continue if you must and act childish, because you're disgracing your country and Govt by your own actions.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> I've been around in this forum for many years, I m OK with what I can understand here, but thank you though.


Again you forget Confucius's reminder of being humble 

You are far away from Chinese culture, which you boast and are proud about (yet refuse to adhere to) and closer to European / Western culture...which you dont like and object but make as your own?!



Rasengan said:


> But I expected better from Chinese members. I wanted them to refute these claims in a calm manner without sounding insecure.


I think MANY of us expected better and that is why we are unhappy!



Rasengan said:


> But instead, they read a couple of hostile posts and did exactly what the opposing side wanted you to do. They all fell into that trap, even though I kept repeating like a broken record player how the majority of Pakistani's don't feel this way. But please continue if you must and act childish, because you're disgracing your country and Govt by your own actions.


I am also tired of reasoning with them and telling them this! 

The MAJOR problem is they consider QUESTIONING synonym to "INSULTING"..with such attitudes...NOTHING is communicable!

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## beijingwalker

Rasengan said:


> If they can't tell the difference between Pakistan and Palestine then it explains their stupidity.


There are some street interview videos on Youtube about how Chinese think about Pakistan, several confused Pakistan with Palestine, I agree that's rather stupid, but most people in this world are not very well learned in geography, besides, in Chinese , Pakistan and Palestine are extremly similar, 巴基斯坦-巴勒斯坦.



Dubious said:


> Again you forget Confucius's reminder of being humble
> 
> You are far away from Chinese culture, which you boast and are proud about (yet refuse to adhere to) and closer to European / Western culture...which you dont like and object but make as your own?!


Confucius? oh, I thought you were talking about my poor English.



Dubious said:


> The MAJOR problem is they consider QUESTIONING synonym to "INSULTING"..with such attitudes...NOTHING is communicable!


Yes, concentration camps, torture, rape, organ harvest, genocide... Good questions to start with. US "questions" the same, do you know that? and they didn't go down very well either with you guys.


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Confucius?


We are taught of Confucius as a high level philosopher and we assume all Chinese to be "that humble" so yes we are disappointed

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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> I think MANY of us expected better and that is why we are unhappy!



They are famous for keeping their emotions in check. Unfortunately, Chinese members on this forum don't adhere to there own culture which I find strange. Their logic is extremely flawed, and this type of behaviour, if it is widespread, will have consequences on China's soft image. When someone is ignorant of your country then it is your job to educate them. Instead, these members fly off the handle.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Yes, concentration camps, torture, rape, organ harvest, genocide... Good questions to start with. US "questions" the same, do you know that? and they didn't go down very well either with you guys.


I didnt ask all that did I ? Why get carried away? English problems or just ego?


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> We are taught of Confucius as a high level philosopher and we assume all Chinese to be "that humble" so yes we are disappointed


English, Confucius...switch topics so fast, but still, I m not here to make your happy , sorry to disappoint you.


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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> They are famous for keeping their emotions in check. Unfortunately, Chinese members on this forum don't adhere to there own culture which I find strange. Their logic is extremely flawed, and this type of behaviour, if it is widespread, will have consequences on China's soft image. When someone is ignorant of your country then it is your job to educate them. Instead, these members fly off the handle.


It is not just about going off tangent ...I am starting to think all "the good things about Chinese people and culture" we know and learnt was fabricated and is false coz none of the Chinese members on PDF have shown even a shred of such culture! 

I am starting to doubt my knowledge of Chinese culture and people! Coz I dont see even a strand of humbleness!

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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> Again you forget Confucius's reminder of being humble
> The MAJOR problem is they consider QUESTIONING synonym to "INSULTING"..with such attitudes...NOTHING is communicable!



I agree when you question them they take it as an insult. But there are some members who have crossed the boundaries, but the moderators have done a good job in reprimanding them. They should have no issue, as long as the majority support China. Becoming insecure will prove the opposite side is correct.

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> I didnt ask all that did I ? Why get carried away? English problems or just ego?


I didn't make that up, those are the ‘questions" frequently brought up by you guys.


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> English, Confucius...switch topics so fast, but still, I m not here to make your happy , sorry to disappoint you.


Confucius was taught to us as Chinese culture

English is needed to communicate - if your English is poor even Confucius's sayings cant save you! 

And yet again you replied something that made no sense whatsoever!



beijingwalker said:


> I didn't make that up, those are the ‘questions" frequently brought up by you guys.


no they are not! 

We have so far only asked about "oppression", "praying", "Islam", "Culture"

What you suggested is playing in your head and hence your aggressive behaviour!

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> I am starting to doubt my knowledge of Chinese culture and people! Coz I dont see even a strand of humbleness!


The feeling is mutual.


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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> I agree when you question them they take it as an insult. But there are some members who have crossed the boundaries, but the moderators have done a good job in reprimanding them. They should have no issue, as long as the majority support China. Becoming insecure will prove the opposite side is correct.


I am beginning to think a Humble Chinese is a myth!


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> Confucius was taught to us as Chinese culture
> 
> English is needed to communicate - if your English is poor even Confucius's sayings cant save you!
> 
> And yet again you replied something that made no sense whatsoever!
> 
> 
> no they are not!
> 
> We have so far only asked about "oppression", "praying", "Islam", "Culture"
> 
> What you suggested is playing in your head and hence your aggressive behaviour!


You can deny it, next time those words pop up again, I'll let you know and see what you will do about them.


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> The feeling is mutual.


Yet you dont bother asking! 

My knowledge of China and Chinese was based on its culture and Confucius ...but there is nothing cultural about trying to cut off a whole ethnic group and nothing Confucius about how you people reply!


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> I am beginning to think a Humble Chinese is a myth!


It is actually, less and less people are humble, I can also tell. New generation thing, I guess


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> You can deny it, next time those words pop up again, I'll let you know and see what you will do about them.


Show me where I have said such things?! Coz you are quoting me! Like you said we represent ourselves ONLY



beijingwalker said:


> It is actually, less and less people are humble, I can also tell. New generation thing, I guess


So they are leaving superior Chinese culture?


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> Yet you dont bother asking!
> 
> My knowledge of China and Chinese was based on its culture and Confucius ...but there is nothing cultural about trying to cut off a whole ethnic group and nothing Confucius about how you people reply!


I m humbler than you at least, being defensive instead of aggressive is a kind of being humble.



Dubious said:


> Show me where I have said such things?! Coz you are quoting me! Like you said we represent ourselves ONLY
> 
> 
> So they are leaving superior Chinese culture?


I m quoting what questions you mean, you were talking with another Pakistani poster about asking Chinese quesitons.


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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> It is not just about going off tangent ...I am starting to think all "the good things about Chinese people and culture" we know and learnt was fabricated and is false coz none of the Chinese members on PDF have shown even a shred of such culture!
> 
> I am starting to doubt my knowledge of Chinese culture and people! Coz I dont see even a strand of humbleness!



They are humble, I have many great Chinese friends, and they have taught me a number of things on Chinese culture. Chinese people, in general, don't like direct conflict, if they were to insult someone then they will do it in a subtle manner. They don't like to bring attention to themselves. Patience is a virtue but they didn't seem to learn this lesson in school from there teachers.

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> So they are leaving superior Chinese culture?


No culture is superior than other cultures.

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## Rasengan

beijingwalker said:


> There are some street interview videos on Youtube about how Chinese think about Pakistan, several confused Pakistan with Palestine, I agree that's rather stupid, but most people in this world are not very well learned in geography, besides, in Chinese , Pakistan and Palestine are extremly similar, 巴基斯坦-巴勒斯坦.



There are ignorant people from all societies. I want you to realize brother, most Pakistani's are in favour of China, therefore don't play into the enemies hand and distance yourself from China's relationship with Pakistan. I understand you don't like reading some of the comments, but it's your job to fight this propaganda and to show China in a positive light. I have defended China on this forum, and let me tell you it's not because of the relationship between our respective Govt's. I have many Chinese friends and I have known them for 15 years. I want to see them live safely where their children face no problem with terrorism. 

When someone questions you, then answer them with facts. If they are rude then laugh at there stupidity. They can whine all they want, but it won't change the stance of our Govt's. Mark Twain was right: "Do not argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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## Pakhtoon yum

yantong1980 said:


> It's YOU that should drag your lazy ars* to Xinjiang and 'record' what do you to know directly into your brain-SEE IT for YOURSELF. DO NOT TELL Chinese poster here what to do, you're just like other poster here. Your problem is YOURS, BLAMING others not an SOLUTION.


First of all calm your *** down.
Secondly I posted a video her of someone that I trust that went to Xinjiang in ramazan and recorded the oppression. So it seems like it is a problem. 
Thirdly I can do whatwhat i want. I live in a democratic and free society and belong to a free culture where I can do and say what I want, as long as it's not hate speech. I know this is hard for you to understand.


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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> I am beginning to think a Humble Chinese is a myth!



Your opinion will change once you meet Chinese people in the real world instead of reading comments on a forum. Obviously, there are bad apples everywhere.

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## Pakhtoon yum

Dubious said:


> I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not...
> 
> If not...
> 
> Why should Pakistan support Hollywood? Or do you mean our Hollywood? We got Lollywood (L for Lahore)
> We have been on and off world stage - preforming folk and pop music (less to do with facial features and more to do with talent)
> Yes ethnics and culture is good for movies and drama we got few musicians from different backgrounds...
> 
> 
> I was choosing facial features over dress...
> 
> 
> You claimed they cant pray in public places even institution! When I was in Europe, I had told them I prayed 5x a day, my institute told me I am free to use *any free classroom/ seminar room* to pray.
> 
> When the West accuse you of oppression, this is the difference they base it on!
> 
> 
> I think to answer this ...you can read another member's post!
> 
> 
> 
> That is interesting ...I know few Hakka and Fochow/ Fuzhou (I though it was just a language language also Hokkian)
> 
> You see when over 90% is 1 group (irrespective of how diverse you think that group is...it is still over 90%)
> 
> The groups I showed you of Pakistanis:
> 
> Punjabi - these can be ethnically Punjabi or another Ethnic group staying in Punjab for a few generations and therefore even the group Punjabi is diverse! And within each ethnic group of Pakistan we also have cross marriages...So you can easily find a Punjabi Kashmiri or something...some groups are like naturally mixed like Sindhi Baloch and so on...
> 
> So EACH group is diverse between OTHER groups and WITHIN the group itself! THIS is not the case when you have 90% of 1 group being diverse within yet being 1 group representing 90% is showing more homogeneity than anything! Its like 10% away from being clones!
> 
> 
> Can you give examples with pictures of some of these "diverse" people?
> 
> 
> This isnt accusing but pointing out something you agreed to and admitted after months of people pointing out the EXACT same thing!
> 
> As for demeaning any country...China isnt demeaned if that is how you people behave and consider a norm! I mean the West has been screaming about basic human right abuse but it is not like China has bothered to give its approach a second look! We have a saying "sharam usko atti hai jisko sharam ka pata ho" -only he / she who knows what is shame can be ashamed!
> 
> 
> Why do you feel "bashed" for pointing out the "normal" in China? So you do know it is wrong then? Coz if it was "normal" and "ok" you would feel proud someone is pointing out what you country is doing!
> 
> 
> I dont expect them to have adhaan...even West has no Adhaan! So that is irrelevant!


Well they used to. Dont forget thses were Islamic independent countries



beijingwalker said:


> When did you take that trip? Why do you take that trip too?
> 
> 
> I have threads about Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang, Guangxi... tons of photos you can check.
> 
> Ethnicitis in Xinjiang alone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can talk about it, but do you think putting every thread into that debate is good? This thread has nothing to do with what you are accusing China of doing, you just jumped in accusing China out of nowhere. The west also accused Pakistan the worst human rights and religious persecution abuser, so if you accept what they say about China, you also have to accept what they say about Pakistan.


That's sweet but you are from China so the morality falls more on you then me, to see if the oppression is real.



Rasengan said:


> There are ignorant people from all societies. I want you to realize brother, most Pakistani's are in favour of China, therefore don't play into the enemies hand and distance yourself from China's relationship with Pakistan. I understand you don't like reading some of the comments, but it's your job to fight this propaganda and to show China in a positive light. I have defended China on this forum, and let me tell you it's not because of the relationship between our respective Govt's. I have many Chinese friends and I have known them for 15 years. I want to see them live safely where their children face no problem with terrorism.
> 
> When someone questions you, then answer them with facts. If they are rude then laugh at there stupidity. They can whine all they want, but it won't change the stance of our Govt's. Mark Twain was right: "Do not argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."


Have you see the stuff happening in Xinjiang? Are you aware of the realities and brutalities being faced by the muslims there? Mosques razed, graveyards razed, no praying, no fasting, no reading the Quran.



Rasengan said:


> Your opinion will change once you meet Chinese people in the real world instead of reading comments on a forum. Obviously, there are bad apples everywhere.


I have met many and it's the same traits that define all of them. Ignorance and disrespect for others culture/religion


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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> Your opinion will change once you meet Chinese people in the real world instead of reading comments on a forum. Obviously, there are bad apples everywhere.


I have met Chinese people ...Many colleagues infact...China sends a lot of people overseas for education....some go themselves - self funded


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## Rasengan

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Well they used to. Dont forget thses were Islamic independent countries
> 
> 
> That's sweet but you are from China so the morality falls more on you then me, to see if the oppression is real.
> 
> 
> Have you see the stuff happening in Xinjiang? Are you aware of the realities and brutalities being faced by the muslims there? Mosques razed, graveyards razed, no praying, no fasting, no reading the Quran.



Since I have lived, worked and travelled extensively across China, I don't need to read a western report on the country. I have prayed in a mosque, kept my fast during Ramadan in 2011 and saw Muslim's reading Quran. These accusations aren't new, they have been labelled against China for decades. Does this mean everything is great? No. There are real growing tensions between the Han and Uighur community and this needs to be resolved. The Govt needs to change some of its policies. For example, stop giving exemptions to Uighur students. They aren't getting employed because Han employees regard them as unskilled workers. There need to be more job opportunities for the Uighur community.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> No culture is superior than other cultures.


No none is...But some are stronger...people tend to diffuse into them or let it diffuse into theirs!

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## Rasengan

Pakhtoon yum said:


> I have met many and it's the same traits that define all of them. Ignorance and disrespect for others culture/religion



You haven't met more Chinese than me. Five of my best friends are Chinese who come from Chengdu, Kunming, Dalian, Beijing and Shanghai.



Dubious said:


> I have met Chinese people ...Many colleagues infact...China sends a lot of people overseas for education....some go themselves - self funded



What was your opinion when you met those colleagues?

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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> For example, stop giving exemptions to Uighur students. They aren't getting employed because Han employees regard them as unskilled workers. There need to be more job opportunities for the Uighur community.


Isnt that the same as some of our Quota systems? 

And we have seen the damage it does so why did China not abolish it? Our govt has been corrupt doing more for themselves than the country what's China's excuse?

2ndly, the concentration camps are so called training the Uighur community!
3rdly, MOST of the objections are for these camps! 
4thly, as per China's laws you cant pray in public places, these camps are public places and people are forced to live in them so as to "reprimand them"...so if they are living in one for say 1 yr...they are not allowed to pray, fast, read Quran and practice Islam for 1 yr! 

THAT is typically called brainwashing! We pray 5x a day! Imagine not doing 5 x 365 prayers! And they justify this! If these are "training centers" why are the Uighur forced to LIVE in them? Training centers have timing unlike concentration camps which are to "make you change"!

Saddest thing is, even a small display of religion lands you in these camps and labels you as a terrorism being "reprimanded"!



Rasengan said:


> They are humble, I have many great Chinese friends, and they have taught me a number of things on Chinese culture. Chinese people, in general, don't like direct conflict, if they were to insult someone then they will do it in a subtle manner. They don't like to bring attention to themselves. Patience is a virtue but they didn't seem to learn this lesson in school from there teachers.


This is what I had heard and seen but the PDF Chinese are not like Chinese at all...they are more like indians!



beijingwalker said:


> I m quoting what questions you mean, you were talking with another Pakistani poster about asking Chinese quesitons.


I dont mean anything like what is in your brain...Quote ANY one of my post and show me where have I stated there is rape going on the camps? Just 1 post if not forever be silent coz we dont believe in liars! And as per Chinese tradition, if you lie once no one actually takes you seriously, EVER!



Rasengan said:


> What was your opinion when you met those colleagues?



VERY quiet (unusual level)
low self esteem (esp when it comes to communicating in English - something similar to my Japanese colleagues)
never fight or argue...But they do get triggered when talking about Taiwan 
Nice
*Very Humble *(Though Japanese are ahead in that field)
Kind
Friendly and willing to help
Curious and wanting to learn
Boasting about China
Depending on how long they have stayed in Western world....these tend to differ! 

I knew few who were RICH (or claimed so)...some told me those who go to UK to study (without scholarship) usually are VERY rich! And I met a number of them in the UK! 

I met some as colleagues in Europe (who had been in Western world more than 2 yrs) they were slightly different...

More confident
Less humble
Less nice
Kind 
Friendly
Obnoxious 
Agreeing China has problems (it is either they want to fit in or they realize they dont need to be defensive)
This is just my observation and some traits from the top of my head!



Pakhtoon yum said:


> First of all calm your *** down.
> Secondly I posted a video her of someone that I trust that went to Xinjiang in ramazan and recorded the oppression. So it seems like it is a problem.
> Thirdly I can do whatwhat i want. I live in a democratic and free society and belong to a free culture where I can do and say what I want, as long as it's not hate speech. I know this is hard for you to understand.


Please dont use such language!


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> I dont mean anything like what is in your brain...Quote ANY one of my post and show me where have I stated there is rape going on the camps? Just 1 post if not forever be silent coz we dont believe in liars! And as per Chinese tradition, if you lie once no one actually takes you seriously, EVER!


You were talking about those questions and those quesitons are there and you definitely saw them, I was quoting a discussion between you and another Pakistani poster, where did I say you personally posted all of them? You can ban me if you want to silence me, just like what did to many other Chinese posters.


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> I m humbler than you at least, being defensive instead of aggressive is a kind of being humble.


If you call your attitude humble then you have no clue of the meaning of the word!



beijingwalker said:


> You were talking about those questions and those quesitons are there and you definitely saw them, I was quoting a discussion between you and another Pakistani poster, where did I say you personally posted all of them? You can ban me if you want to silence me, just like what did to many other Chinese posters.


It is not about silencing you- You see how your brain works?! 

I never used those terms / words/ attributes...so you cant hold me responsible for them! And pointing at me and saying I "think" them when I never used them or even thought them is a lie and one who lies is a liar!



beijingwalker said:


> You were talking about those questions and those quesitons are there and you definitely saw them, I was quoting a discussion between you and another Pakistani poster, where did I say you personally posted all of them? You can ban me if you want to silence me, just like what did to many other Chinese posters.


Show me that post that you claim I was talking to another Pakistani about rape?! Please do quote it!

This is your post:


beijingwalker said:


> Yes, *concentration camps, torture, rape, organ harvest, genocide*... Good questions to start with. US "questions" the same, do you know that? and they didn't go down very well either with you guys.



In rely to this post:



Dubious said:


> The MAJOR problem is they consider QUESTIONING synonym to "INSULTING"..with such attitudes...NOTHING is communicable!



Please show me how you came to that conclusion? I only ever talked about concentration camps and your brain just jumped a mile away just so you can blame me and start a fight?!

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> Show me that post that you claim I was talking to another Pakistani about rape?! Please do quote it!


You were talking about Pakistani ask Chinese questions, not insults, I was list some of the question you guys raised to us.


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> You were talking about Pakistani ask Chinese questions, not insults, I was list some of the question you guys raised to us.


You yourself said we each are responsible only for our own words..Now you imply that just coz someone else is asking xyz I somehow am asking the same?

As for those guys who claim that...How many are there from 200 million of us?


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> Please show me how you came to that conclusion? I only ever talked about concentration camps and your brain just jumped a mile away just so you can blame me and start a fight?!


When you say "they" you mean many Chinese posters ,not only me, When I say you or you guys, I mean many of you guys. you said many things that Chinese poster did like attacking a culture or religions which I never did, but I understand you mean some Chinese posters did.


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> When you say "they" you mean many Chinese posters ,not only me, When I say you or you guys, I mean many of you guys. you said many things that Chinese poster did like attacking a culture or religions which I never did, but I understand you mean some Chinese posters did.


When I say THEY it is THEY not you...When I say YOU...I MOSTLY mean you!


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> You yourself said we each are responsible only for our own words.


But you said "they", right? I replied "they", and what questions "they" were being asked by you guys.


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## Dubious

> The MAJOR problem is they consider QUESTIONING synonym to "INSULTING"..with such attitudes...NOTHING is communicable!


 And this is the truth!

Question anything regarding Xinjiang and *you people (Chinese members)* start bashing...comparing to Pakistan...Boasting about China's supremacy! None of which is either asked nor implied!

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> And this is the truth!
> 
> Question anything regarding Xinjiang and *you people (Chinese members)* start bashing...comparing to Pakistan...Boasting about China's supremacy! None of which is either asked nor implied!


I don't think I did, some of them could , but as much as Pakistani posters did to China.


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> But you said "they", right? I replied "they", and what questions "they" were being asked.


And I stated SHOW ME THOSE POSTS! You then claimed it was my talk between another Pakistani member...Since it was me talking...How do you know I was talking about those issues that you suggested?

I was talking about what most members have been saying ABOUT CONCENTRATION CAMPS : where the Muslims are not allowed to pray, read Quran, fast and practice religion and also how minor issues will lead these Uyghur people to land in such camps!

I have ONLY been talking about Concentration camps so for you to conjecture that I was talking about OTHER issues is really irrelevant except due to your habit of being very defensive!


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> A*(Chinese members)* start bashing...comparing to Pakistan...Boasting about China's supremacy! None of which is either asked nor implied!


Why did they do this? something must have happened before that, right?


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> I don't think I did, some of them could , but as much as Pakistani posters did to China.


You did! 

Repeatedly and I ignored it!



beijingwalker said:


> Why did they do this? something must have happened before that, right?


Yes, they were asked questions they couldnt answer! Chinese members cant answer ANYTHING related to Xinjiang or the Uyghur people or why religious practice in public places is banned in China?! Or why simple thing such as reading Quran in public can send them to a concentration camp! 

If YOUR PEOPLE cant answer they should stay away from such threads! China does not need defending...IT DOES need defending from emotionally unstable people like *MOST *of the Chinese members here!

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> And I stated SHOW ME THOSE POSTS! You then claimed it was my talk between another Pakistani member...Since it was me talking...How do you know I was talking about those issues that you suggested?
> 
> I was talking about what most members have been saying ABOUT CONCENTRATION CAMPS : where the Muslims are not allowed to pray, read Quran, fast and practice religion and also how minor issues will lead these Uyghur people to land in such camps!
> 
> I have ONLY been talking about Concentration camps so for you to conjecture that I was talking about OTHER issues is really irrelevant except due to your habit of being very defensive!


Concentration camps and all other related issues were brought up to us like a package deal, since you were talking about THEY behave like whatsoever, I can tell you what kind of questions being thrown at them to make them turn nasty too.


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Why did they do this? something must have happened before that, right?


And I also stated earlier...SHOW me where other members touched SUCH topics...maybe 1 did...but majority are curious about this concentration camps ONLY...

ONLY about 1 group the Uyghur
ONLY about 1 religion Islam

We dont care about anything else in China


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> You did!
> 
> Repeatedly and I ignored it!


I may forget, can you specify which post?


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Concentration camps and all other related issues were brought up to us like a package deal, since you were talking about THEY behave like whatsoever, I can tell you what kind of questions being thrown at them to make them turn nasty too.


Quote me the questions!


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> And I also stated earlier...SHOW me where other members touched SUCH topics...maybe 1 did...but majority are curious about this concentration camps ONLY...


Itachi asked many, if you think he is just asking questions, you are trying to fool yourself.


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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Itachi asked many, if you think he is just asking questions, you are trying to fool yourself.


He mostly DISCUSSED ...didnt really ask questions! I thread banned him in favour of 2 Chinese members complaining about him...and still I am the biased mod


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> He mostly DISCUSSED ...didnt really ask questions! I thread banned him in favour of 2 Chinese members complaining about him...and still I am the biased mod


More Chinese were banned and you are in favor of their version of Xinjiang story, you can deny it and say you are never biased though.


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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> Isnt that the same as some of our Quota systems?
> 
> And we have seen the damage it does so why did China not abolish it? Our govt has been corrupt doing more for themselves than the country what's China's excuse?
> 
> 2ndly, the concentration camps are so called training the Uighur community!
> 3rdly, MOST of the objections are for these camps!
> 4thly, as per China's laws you cant pray in public places, these camps are public places and people are forced to live in them so as to "reprimand them"...so if they are living in one for say 1 yr...they are not allowed to pray, fast, read Quran and practice Islam for 1 yr!
> 
> THAT is typically called brainwashing! We pray 5x a day! Imagine not doing 5 x 365 prayers! And they justify this! If these are "training centers" why are the Uighur forced to LIVE in them? Training centers have timing unlike concentration camps which are to "make you change"!
> 
> Saddest thing is, even a small display of religion lands you in these camps and labels you as a terrorism being "reprimanded"!
> 
> 
> This is what I had heard and seen but the PDF Chinese are not like Chinese at all...they are more like indians!



It is a quota system. You see in China the CPC did many laws which didn't sit well with the Han community. For example, Uighurs were allowed to have more than one child as with all minority groups, but the Han community was usually fined with a big monetary penalty. Competition in the education sector is massive in China due to the size and population of the country. But in applying for Universities Uighur students were given exemptions with fewer marks. There were two problems with this. 1) Han students weren't happy because they regarded this policy as unfair 2) Disregarding State Owned Enterprises, private sector employers regarded Uighur candidates as unskilled workers. Other such policies were social security benefits. I have no problem with this policy. Xinjiang compare to other Chinese provinces is backward, therefore, the Govt should support families especially from minority groups. 

In my opinion, they should abolish this system, but communication between the central and provincial Govt is poor. One of the biggest issues between the Uighur community and the provincial Govt is housing. The Uighurs want to stay in their ancestral homes, but the Govt is forcing them out and giving them brand new accommodation. This policy was enacted due to the Sichuan earthquake. Those homes are centuries old, and they won't be able to withstand another powerful natural disaster. 

The training camps are used to rehabilitate people who wanted independence from China. You have to remember 3 years ago there were 600 terrorist attacks in Xinjiang. Obviously, they wanted to find a solution to this problem. There is a big distinction between improving the livelihood of your community and seeking independence.

You can't pray in public places, but that doesn't mean you can't pray inside a building. I always find it amusing when I read comments complaining how China is forcing the Uighurs to drink. Its common knowledge in China that Uighurs can hold there liquor more than any other ethnic group. I have seen it with my own eyes. Unfortunately, this is Central Asian culture. Then western reporters claim Uighurs can't wear caps, but this was proven false, so they tweaked the accusation by claiming people under 40 can't wear it. Next came the issue of prayer. Twelve countries sent diplomats to these camps. One of them was Indonesia where the ulema gave their verdict of satisfaction this included Pakistan. Such stories have been going around for decades. Does that mean everything is wonderful? No. 

Under Chairman Mao all religious groups were attacked because they remembered what the Taiping Rebellion did to the country leading to 100 years of shame from imperial powers. No one can deny this, and the Chinese amongst themselves admit this. But since Deng Xiaoping opened China to the world, the CPC has done many radical reforms of allowing religious freedom. Is everything perfect? No. But they will improve. The prosperity of Xinjiang is important for Pakistan, otherwise, CPEC won't function to its capacity.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> More Chinese were banned and you are in favor of their version of Xinjiang story, you can deny it and say you are never biased though.


The banning system is simple: 3 times warning and you get a ban!

Very rarely and only if one is trolling are 3 warnings given at once! I have very rarely given 3 warnings at once! You can ask the senior mods and admin to "review" these ....Just open a thread in GHQ! I have told you before but you cant seem to understand! 

And as per forum rules, if you reply to a troll/ or resort in trolling also ...YOU will be warned! You can read the forum rules again! in the past Pakistani members were banned (3 warnings at once) for replying to trolls! 

Chinese people are not supposed to expose their feelings but I guess they release all their frustrations that they have been holding back on PDF!



Rasengan said:


> It is a quota system. You see in China the CPC did many laws which didn't sit well with the Han community. For example, Uighurs were allowed to have more than one child as with all minority groups, but the Han community was usually fined with a big monetary penalty.


When you are curbing your population growth and you have only less than 10% of minorities, why would you want to cut their birth rate?




Rasengan said:


> Competition in the education sector is massive in China due to the size and population of the country. But in applying for Universities Uighur students were given exemptions with fewer marks. There were two problems with this. 1) Han students weren't happy because they regarded this policy as unfair 2) Disregarding State Owned Enterprises, private sector employers regarded Uighur candidates as unskilled workers. Other such policies were social security benefits. I have no problem with this policy. Xinjiang compare to other Chinese provinces is backward, therefore, the Govt should support families especially from minority groups.


You see when someone is "unhappy" and gets into a position...this is the start of oppression! Hitler was also "unhappy" with the Jewish population! See the similarities! If the state caused it, it should be responsible and the current oppression of the minority isnt helping!



Rasengan said:


> In my opinion, they should abolish this system, but communication between the central and provincial Govt is poor. One of the biggest issues between the Uighur community and the provincial Govt is housing. The Uighurs want to stay in their ancestral homes, but the Govt is forcing them out and giving them brand new accommodation. This policy was enacted due to the Sichuan earthquake. Those homes are centuries old, and they won't be able to withstand another powerful natural disaster.


Forcing is never good! GOVT forcing is always mirrored as communism/ dictatorship/ oppression! 



Rasengan said:


> The training camps are used to rehabilitate people who wanted independence from China. You have to remember 3 years ago there were 600 terrorist attacks in Xinjiang. Obviously, they wanted to find a solution to this problem. There is a big distinction between improving the livelihood of your community and seeking independence.


According to the reports, it seems like you are a terrorist if you practice your religion in the open or in public places! Just read the reports it shows like that! 

What is considered terrorist attacks? Refusal to abide to Han mentality? Refusal to move out of ancestral homes and having a strong opposition?

Xinjiang was seeking independence so the freedom fighters like Kashmir have been called terrorist?



Rasengan said:


> You can't pray in public places, but that doesn't mean you can't pray inside a building.


the concentration camps are public institutions and thus you cant pray inside those buildings as well @beijingwalker himself admitted to this!

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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> VERY quiet (unusual level)
> low self esteem (esp when it comes to communicating in English - something similar to my Japanese colleagues)
> never fight or argue...But they do get triggered when talking about Taiwan
> Nice
> *Very Humble *(Though Japanese are ahead in that field)
> Kind
> Friendly and willing to help
> Curious and wanting to learn
> Boasting about China


1) True. This action is common due to shyness. It took me weeks to get my best friends to initially open up to me and I was only successful because I spoke on Chinese history which they became impressed.
2) True. Most Chinese students can't communicate in English, they come to study abroad as a certificate for there parents and society. You have to remember these students are rich, they have businesses waiting for them at home. This doesn't mean all Chinese students have low esteem. My friend from Shanghai speaks superb English. China's top students in the current era, study in places like Tsinghua University, Peking University and Fudan University rather than going abroad. There's a big reason for this. Most Chinese students who take their education abroad struggle in Chinese writing when they return to China. They are out of practice so when it comes to civil service exams they fail in high numbers.
3) They do get triggered when Taiwan is mentioned.
4) I agree.
5) Depends on which region they come from.
6) I agree
7) I agree
8) True. Education, patience and continuing to learn plays a big part in their culture.
9) True. But some Pakistani's would do the same.

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> You see when someone is "unhappy" and gets into a position...this is the start of oppression! Hitler was also "unhappy" with the Jewish population! See the similarities!


You keep comparing Xinjiang with Hitiler's Jewish genocide, that's really ridiculous, Xinjiang people live the best life they've never lived.



Dubious said:


> Xinjiang was seeking independence so the freedom fighters like Kashmir have been called terrorist?


If you say that we have no point for further discussion, don't forget you also have separatist problems in your own country.



Dubious said:


> Xinjiang was seeking independence so the freedom fighters like Kashmir have been called terrorist?


If I support Pakistani separatists I will be immediately banned, right? If Xinjiang were another Afganistan style Muslim country, what Pakistan can get ? maybe another hostile neighor like Afghanistan and Iran and you need to put another fence along that border, you'll lose your logisitic supply route from China , no money support, no arms support, no UNSC support... you can wish yourself the best luck the next time you fight a major war with your gigantic neighbor to your east.

*Afghanistan, Iran and Bangladesh are all your brotherly Muslim countries, do they support you against India or do they support India against you?* Supporting Xinjiang separatists is the dumbest thing to do for Pakistan, that's to shoot yourself in the head.

Turning China into your enemy by supporting Xinjiang separatists, and see who'll still be on your side in this world!


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## Pakhtoon yum

Dubious said:


> Isnt that the same as some of our Quota systems?
> 
> And we have seen the damage it does so why did China not abolish it? Our govt has been corrupt doing more for themselves than the country what's China's excuse?
> 
> 2ndly, the concentration camps are so called training the Uighur community!
> 3rdly, MOST of the objections are for these camps!
> 4thly, as per China's laws you cant pray in public places, these camps are public places and people are forced to live in them so as to "reprimand them"...so if they are living in one for say 1 yr...they are not allowed to pray, fast, read Quran and practice Islam for 1 yr!
> 
> THAT is typically called brainwashing! We pray 5x a day! Imagine not doing 5 x 365 prayers! And they justify this! If these are "training centers" why are the Uighur forced to LIVE in them? Training centers have timing unlike concentration camps which are to "make you change"!
> 
> Saddest thing is, even a small display of religion lands you in these camps and labels you as a terrorism being "reprimanded"!
> 
> 
> This is what I had heard and seen but the PDF Chinese are not like Chinese at all...they are more like indians!
> 
> 
> I dont mean anything like what is in your brain...Quote ANY one of my post and show me where have I stated there is rape going on the camps? Just 1 post if not forever be silent coz we dont believe in liars! And as per Chinese tradition, if you lie once no one actually takes you seriously, EVER!
> 
> 
> 
> VERY quiet (unusual level)
> low self esteem (esp when it comes to communicating in English - something similar to my Japanese colleagues)
> never fight or argue...But they do get triggered when talking about Taiwan
> Nice
> *Very Humble *(Though Japanese are ahead in that field)
> Kind
> Friendly and willing to help
> Curious and wanting to learn
> Boasting about China
> Depending on how long they have stayed in Western world....these tend to differ!
> 
> I knew few who were RICH (or claimed so)...some told me those who go to UK to study (without scholarship) usually are VERY rich! And I met a number of them in the UK!
> 
> I met some as colleagues in Europe (who had been in Western world more than 2 yrs) they were slightly different...
> 
> More confident
> Less humble
> Less nice
> Kind
> Friendly
> Obnoxious
> Agreeing China has problems (it is either they want to fit in or they realize they dont need to be defensive)
> This is just my observation and some traits from the top of my head!
> 
> 
> Please dont use such language!


He was jumping up and down, Caps means yelling so, I only suggested he calms down.



beijingwalker said:


> You keep comparing Xinjiang with Hitiler's Jewish genocide, that's really ridiculous, Xinjiang people live the best life they've never lived.
> 
> 
> If you say that we have no point for further discussion, don't forget you also have separatist problems in your own country.
> 
> 
> If I support Pakistani separatists I will be immediately banned, right? If Xinjiang were another Afganistan style Muslim country, what Pakistan can get ? maybe another hostile neighor like Afghanistan and Iran and you need to put another fence along that border, you'll lose your logisitic supply route from China , no money support, no arms support, no UNSC support... you can wish yourself the best luck the next time you fight a major war with your gigantic neighbor to your east.
> 
> *Afghanistan, Iran and Bangladesh are all your brotherly Muslim countries, do they support you against India or do they support India against you?* Supporting Xinjiang separatists is the dumbest thing to do for Pakistan, that's to shoot yourself in the head.
> 
> Turning China into your enemy by supporting Xinjiang separatists, and see who'll still be on your side in this world!


Actually the moment Pakistan starts apposing China the west would shower it with funds and investments. Why, you may ask?. Well simply because it will keep the power of China in check and constrict them from gaining any influence in the middle east and eventually central Asia. So you should be lucky Pakistan still supports China even after getting pressurized by the west.

Also China is indebted to Pakistan more then Pakistan ever would be to China. it was Pakistan that opened China up to the world and took it around to meet the western countries. The only reason why your economy is doing so great is because of all those relationships Pakistan mediated, with the west. The only reason China has relations with the US is because Pakistan mediated heavily and forced the US to start trade and diplomatic relations. Heck PIA even trained all your major Chinese airlines and even had flights form Beijing and other Chinese cities to the rest of the world.

So please don't you ever think that Pakistan would ever be indebted or need you. Infact its China that needs Pakistan and it's going to need it even more with rising tensions with India and the west.



Dubious said:


> The banning system is simple: 3 times warning and you get a ban!
> 
> Very rarely and only if one is trolling are 3 warnings given at once! I have very rarely given 3 warnings at once! You can ask the senior mods and admin to "review" these ....Just open a thread in GHQ! I have told you before but you cant seem to understand!
> 
> And as per forum rules, if you reply to a troll/ or resort in trolling also ...YOU will be warned! You can read the forum rules again! in the past Pakistani members were banned (3 warnings at once) for replying to trolls!
> 
> Chinese people are not supposed to expose their feelings but I guess they release all their frustrations that they have been holding back on PDF!
> 
> 
> When you are curbing your population growth and you have only less than 10% of minorities, why would you want to cut their birth rate?
> 
> 
> 
> You see when someone is "unhappy" and gets into a position...this is the start of oppression! Hitler was also "unhappy" with the Jewish population! See the similarities! If the state caused it, it should be responsible and the current oppression of the minority isnt helping!
> 
> 
> Forcing is never good! GOVT forcing is always mirrored as communism/ dictatorship/ oppression!
> 
> 
> According to the reports, it seems like you are a terrorist if you practice your religion in the open or in public places! Just read the reports it shows like that!
> 
> What is considered terrorist attacks? Refusal to abide to Han mentality? Refusal to move out of ancestral homes and having a strong opposition?
> 
> Xinjiang was seeking independence so the freedom fighters like Kashmir have been called terrorist?
> 
> 
> the concentration camps are public institutions and thus you cant pray inside those buildings as well @beijingwalker himself admitted to this!


May I PM you? I have a few questions and maybe you can help me

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## beijingwalker

Pakhtoon yum said:


> He was jumping up and down, Caps means yelling so, I only suggested he calms down.
> 
> Actually the moment Pakistan starts apposing China the west would shower it with funds and investments. Why, you may ask?. Well simply because it will keep the power of China in check and constrict them from gaining any influence in the middle east and eventually central Asia. So you should be lucky Pakistan still supports China even after getting pressurized by the west.
> 
> Also China is indebted to Pakistan more then Pakistan ever would be to China.


We are equal, no one is indebted to another, if you like to turn to the west, no one stops you, China and US quarrel a lot, but our relations are not really that bad, two countries economies are so closely intertwined, we need eath other equally, I'll bet you that the trade deal will be made cause both countries can't afford othewise, respects come from your own strength, US can do nothing to stop us. I would not say the same about US and Pakistan relations, you can oppose China and try to befriend US again and see what'll happen and don't forget about India. The next time you go to war with India, I really doubt that US will support you, even it does, US is declining and probably won't be able to do so in the future.


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## Rasengan

QUOTE="Dubious, post: 11579573, member: 141155"]
When you are curbing your population growth and you have only less than 10% of minorities, why would you want to cut their birth rate?[/QUOTE]

The Govt isn't curbing the birth rate of minorities. Minority groups are allowed to have more than one child. I was explaining why such tensions exists between the Han and Uighur community. The Han community found this policy unfair. 




Dubious said:


> You see when someone is "unhappy" and gets into a position...this is the start of oppression! Hitler was also "unhappy" with the Jewish population! See the similarities! If the state caused it, it should be responsible and the current oppression of the minority isnt helping!



I don't see no comparison with Hitler and the policies of the Chinese Govt. Such a scenrio won't exists because Provincials Governors don't come from the local region. Therefore, they have none of the baggage of hatred that exists between the local Han and Uighur community. 
The Uighurs aren't blameless or angels in this entire fiasco. They don't wish to integrate into society. I was in Chengdu once in a Uighur restaurant and the waiter couldn't even understand basic mandarin to take my friends order. I was gobsmacked and asked my friend why such a problem exists. His reply was simple, they choose not to send there children to school. Furthermore, look how big China is and the size of its population. The Govt is bound to make mistakes, they aren't perfect, but they have come a long way since the era of Chairman Mao. 



Dubious said:


> Forcing is never good! GOVT forcing is always mirrored as communism/ dictatorship/ oppression!



This is Chinese culture of governance (legalism) which dates back to 2000 years of there history, therefore it has nothing to do with communism. In addition, there has never been a communist country, socialists state but never a communist Govt. Communism is a utopia system. Hence why leaders such as Stalin, Lenin, Trosky and Mao used the words "We must continue the revolution." You may disagree with them, but this has changed China, lifting 700 million people out of poverty. Do you think everyone was given a choice? The answer is no. Look where China is today compare to other countries all within a short span of 40 years. 




Dubious said:


> According to the reports, it seems like you are a terrorist if you practice your religion in the open or in public places! Just read the reports it shows like that!
> 
> What is considered terrorist attacks? Refusal to abide to Han mentality? Refusal to move out of ancestral homes and having a strong opposition?
> 
> Xinjiang was seeking independence so the freedom fighters like Kashmir have been called terrorist?
> !


I don't follow western sources on Xinjiang. They clearly have a bias opinion on China and as a Pakistani I know this full well. Look at the videos of some of the foriegn vloggers who have come to Pakistan. Tourism hasn't flourished in Pakistan because The western media has painted Pakistan as terrorists unsafe country. The same applies to China who they view as a national security threat to there power. 
You want to know what is considered a terrorists attack? Its when a Uighur butchers random people on the street with a knife, take a van and runs over people indiscriminately and attacks police stations during the night. The Govt has every right to move them outside of there ancestral homes. What makes the Uighur so special when the Govt has done this same policy across the whole of China predominately on the Han community? 
There is a big difference between Kashmir and Xinjiang. The Uighurs aren't fighting for Islam or Muslims. There indepedence is based upon nationalism and ethnicity. 




Dubious said:


> he concentration camps are public institutions and thus you cant pray inside those buildings as well @beijingwalker himself admitted to this!


@beijingwalker is a citizen of China he doesn't represent the Chinese Govt.

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## beijingwalker

If Pakistan really decides to turn against China for Xinjiang, I would say that's the dumbest decision you could ever make.



Rasengan said:


> QUOTE="Dubious, post: 11579573, member: 141155"]
> 
> @beijingwalker is a citizen of China he doesn't represent the Chinese Govt.


I told him so, and I don't think he can represent Pakistani government either, I don't think Pakistani government supports Xinjiang separatists.

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## Rasengan

beijingwalker said:


> If Pakistan really decides to turn against China for Xinjiang, I would say that's the dumbest decision you could ever make.
> 
> 
> I told him so, and I don't think he can represent Pakistani government either, I don't think Pakistani government supports Xinjiang separatists.



Don't worry, the Govt of Pakistan supports China on the issue of Xinjiang. Action speaks louder than words. Who killed the two last leaders of ETIM? Pakistani military. Who convinced the Taliban back in 1996 to stop supporting ETIM? Pakistani intelligence. Who has given captured Uighur prisoners to China? Pakistan. What did Xi say on the current relationship with Imran Khan and Pakistan? Wonderful. This is a forum, so do what I recommended to you before. Have I not supported China's stance in this exchange?

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## beijingwalker

Rasengan said:


> Don't worry, the Govt of Pakistan supports China on the issue of Xinjiang. Action speaks louder than words. Who killed the two last leaders of ETIM? Pakistani military. Who convinced the Taliban back in 1996 to stop supporting ETIM? Pakistani intelligence. Who has given captured Uighur prisoners to China? Pakistan. What did Xi say on the current relationship with Imran Khan and Pakistan? Wonderful. This is a forum, so do what I recommended to you before. Have I not supported China's stance in this exchange?


I also support Pakistan for years in this forum, many long time PDF users can verify this. I just kind of feel weird that how a person with this strong bias can become a mod. Several other Chinese, most are banned now, also asked this same question.

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## Rasengan

beijingwalker said:


> I also support Pakistan for years in this forum, many long time PDF users can verify this. I just kind of feel weird that how a person with this strong bias can become a mod. Several other Chinese, most are banned now, also asked this same question.



I can understand your frustration. It's not nice reading comments from a group of people who should be in your corner. To be honest with you brother I find it rather strange how the anti-China element in recent months has gone up. This was never the case a few months ago. The majority of people support China and those who don't have an unhealthy obsession with the issue of Xinjiang. I laugh at there ignorance because they can't do anything.



beijingwalker said:


> I also support Pakistan for years in this forum, many long time PDF users can verify this. I just kind of feel weird that how a person with this strong bias can become a mod. Several other Chinese, most are banned now, also asked this same question.



But its important brother for you to hold the torch and defend China and not falling into there trap. I don't use the word brother lightly, but I use this word on Chinese people because I like them a lot. So I hope you take my advice.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> You keep comparing Xinjiang with Hitiler's Jewish genocide, that's really ridiculous, Xinjiang people live the best life they've never lived.


Yes...best and the payment is being a slave with no sense of freedom of religion....THAT isnt the best life! Ask any slave! 



beijingwalker said:


> If you say that we have no point for further discussion, don't forget you also have separatist problems in your own country.


And we never deny them...NEVER have we sent anyone to a concentration camp NOR do we curb religious practices of any minority!



beijingwalker said:


> If I support Pakistani separatists I will be immediately banned, right?


IF you TROLL about Separatists yes...But if you had supported Asia bibi (a case from Pakistan where West claimed she was "oppressed/ abused") you wouldnt have!
You are comparing separatists group vs people in concentration camp with religious freedom oppressed! VERY different mind you!



beijingwalker said:


> If Xinjiang were another Afganistan style Muslim country, what Pakistan can get ? maybe another hostile neighor like Afghanistan and Iran and you need to put another fence along that border, you'll lose your logisitic supply route from China , no money support, no arms support, no UNSC support... you can wish yourself the best luck the next time you fight a major war with your gigantic neighbor to your east.


IF but is it?

There is a vast difference between being called a terrorist just for practicing your religion and being called a terrorist for causing harm to other people! In Xinjiang, the Uyghur people are called terrorist just for practicing their religion in a public place!



beijingwalker said:


> *Afghanistan, Iran and Bangladesh are all your brotherly Muslim countries, do they support you against India or do they support India against you?* Supporting Xinjiang separatists is the dumbest thing to do for Pakistan, that's to shoot yourself in the head.


Nobody is supporting the "separatists" but we are opposing China's stand in labeling EVERYONE of them separatists just because they have different faith! or need to practice their religion 5x a day?!



beijingwalker said:


> Turning China into your enemy by supporting Xinjiang separatists, and see who'll still be on your side in this world!


As usual you are going off tangent! Why cant you EVER stay on point?

Its like dealing with a toddler who doesnt understand anything but keeps on going!



Rasengan said:


> The Govt isn't curbing the birth rate of minorities. Minority groups are allowed to have more than one child. I was explaining why such tensions exists between the Han and Uighur community. The Han community found this policy unfair.


Well then the Han people should voice out to the govt not the ethnic people! 

I explained to you such policies DOES lead to a divide and a dangerous one indeed! A divide that is so blind and only filled with hatred as shown here on PDF! If we talk/ respect/ protect/ side the Uyghur people, the Han people on the forum attack you like you insulted their mothers!

And they quickly start the "we are your friends we did this that for Pakistan"...and quickly label us traitors! Just read some of their posts!



Rasengan said:


> I don't see no comparison with Hitler and the policies of the Chinese Govt. Such a scenrio won't exists because Provincials Governors don't come from the local region. Therefore, they have none of the baggage of hatred that exists between the local Han and Uighur community.


You are contradicting yourself...esp when you said that the Han people did hate the policy..They cant hate the policy and then claim there is no hated that exists! The hatred is very clear here on PDF! I cant imagine in real life!

These Han people quickly jump from Uyghur people to labeling all of them either separatists or terrorists...some jumping as far as killing them - there were 2 PDF Chinese members who were promoting death to the UYGHUR people and I had to give them warning coz such things are against forum policy! And this is online when they are anonymous! Imagine such mentality roaming freely outside! Let alone if such racist people end up in decision making positions!



Rasengan said:


> The Uighurs aren't blameless or angels in this entire fiasco. They don't wish to integrate into society.


What is wrong with NOT wanting to be a clone? We have Sindhi with quota system and who dont know Urdu...do we go around jailing them up?



Rasengan said:


> The Govt is bound to make mistakes, they aren't perfect, but they have come a long way since the era of Chairman Mao.


Yes, but refusal all the way to denial to admit a mistake is a mistake in itself!



Rasengan said:


> This is Chinese culture of governance (legalism) which dates back to 2000 years of there history, therefore it has nothing to do with communism. In addition, there has never been a communist country, socialists state but never a communist Govt. Communism is a utopia system. Hence why leaders such as Stalin, Lenin, Trosky and Mao used the words "We must continue the revolution." You may disagree with them, but this has changed China, lifting 700 million people out of poverty. Do you think everyone was given a choice? The answer is no. Look where China is today compare to other countries all within a short span of 40 years.


I admit China has done a wonderful job but that is not my argument!

Not everything the govt did is painted wrongly! I have praised it where necessary! You cant cover the wrongs with the good! Just coz there is 95% good doesnt mean the 5% doesnt exist or is a myth?! That 5% is deadly to a whole nation/ people called Uyghur!

Look at Pakistan...they "modified" the Islamiyat...the children today dont study what my parents studied or what my generation studied...and are far loss! This is the case in an Islamic country imagine in a country where practicing religion is banned! 

When the next generation will be CLUELESS about their religion...it will be easier for terrorists to recruit them claiming xyz version is the real Islam! It is the same how many people get recruited! MANY clueless souls are sold a version of a religion/ ideology that sounds cool and supporting their scenario...EVEN if the real religion doesnt teach that...THIS is dangerous! Not for now maybe but wait 1 generation and you will see the results...Look at Pakistan or even the 2nd generation Muslims in Europe...they fell for BS that was sold to them as Islam and went to fight a "holy war" without knowing what a Holy war is and that the crusaders are the ONLY ones in modern history who actually termed it that Jihad means strive not holy war...But there was no one to tell them that! Just lunatics calling them to their "duty"!



Rasengan said:


> Its when a Uighur butchers random people on the street with a knife, take a van and runs over people indiscriminately and attacks police stations during the night.


Blanket statements are never good...even the unrelated suffer when you crackdown based on a people! it is like saying that Pathan, Sindhi or Punjabi do that...When we know *not all *Pathan, Sindhi or Punjabi are same...



Rasengan said:


> There is a big difference between Kashmir and Xinjiang. The Uighurs aren't fighting for Islam or Muslims. There indepedence is based upon nationalism and ethnicity.


*IRRESPECTIVE of that, putting them in concentration camps and oppressing their religion isnt the way!*



Rasengan said:


> @beijingwalker is a citizen of China he doesn't represent the Chinese Govt.


Yes and you stated your friend while ordering at a Uyghur restaurant as an example...but somehow Beijingwalker himself admitting (so did 2-3 other members) is not enough?



beijingwalker said:


> I also support Pakistan for years in this forum, many long time PDF users can verify this. I just kind of feel weird that how a person with this strong bias can become a mod. Several other Chinese, most are banned now, also asked this same question.


BIASED? SO you dont question your members' foul mouthed language but call me biased! 

I repeatedly told you to open a case in GHQ but all you do is "bitch" about! Yes in layman's language this attitude of talking about something but doing ABSOLUTELY nothing about it is called BITCHING!

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## Pakhtoon yum

beijingwalker said:


> We are equal, no one is indebted to another, if you like to turn to the west, no one stops you, China and US quarrel a lot, but our relations are not really that bad, two countries economies are so closely intertwined, we need eath other equally, I'll bet you that the trade deal will be made cause both countries can't afford othewise, respects come from your own strength, US can do nothing to stop us. I would not say the same about US and Pakistan relations, you can oppose China and try to befriend US again and see what'll happen and don't forget about India. The next time you go to war with India, I really doubt that US will support you, even it does, US is declining and probably won't be able to do so in the future.


Then dont understand the length that the US will go to stay the sole superpower.


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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> Well then the Han people should voice out to the govt not the ethnic people!
> 
> I explained to you such policies DOES lead to a divide and a dangerous one indeed! A divide that is so blind and only filled with hatred as shown here on PDF! If we talk/ respect/ protect/ side the Uyghur people, the Han people on the forum attack you like you insulted their mothers!



Your first sentence points to the idea of the Han community solely attacking the Uighur community. When I have told you in my previous post 600 attacks use to occur yearly in Xinjiang on the Han community. The Uighur community aren't angels. In the 2009 riots, they were chanting death to Han and Hui which confirms they are nationalists who seek independence rather than on the grounds of religious freedom. There are 56 ethnic groups in China, of which 10 of them are Muslim. Why is the Uighur community the only Muslim group causing trouble? Why haven't the rest of them raised concerns about the Chinese Govt's treatment of there faith?


If you support the Uighur people who demand independence then its only natural the Chinese members will feel anger. Imagine if I decided to join a Chinese Forum and the people over there were openly speaking on funding, arming and supporting BLA. My reaction won't be extreme as some Chinese members have conducted themselves in this forum but it would definitely make me unhappy.


There should only be one outcome for ETIM and its supporters, a bullet to the head. Good job, the Pakistani Army has killed two of their previous leaders. These cockroaches came to our country and allied themselves with the TTP in Waziristan and killed our soldiers and caused suffering to the local population. So I don't have a shred of sympathy for them. How do you know if some of these Chinese members haven't been affected by Uighur terrorism? Look at how Pakistani's talk about Afghans on this forum. They use the most disgusting language imaginable, especially to those Afghan's who question the Durand Line. It's very easy pointing fingers at others, but one should look at themselves.



Dubious said:


> You are contradicting yourself...esp when you said that the Han people did hate the policy..They cant hate the policy and then claim there is no hated that exists! The hatred is very clear here on PDF! I cant imagine in real life!



The Hui people aren't Han and we both know they are Muslim. Please explain to me why the Uighur's hate the Hui? This is important because no matter what the Chinese Govt will do there will always be an element of separatism from this community. I haven't contradicted myself, you didn't read my sentence properly. I said no person would be in a position of power with hatred as none of the Provincial Governors is selected from the region. The CPC has a robust policy of making sure Mayors, Governors and other key positions are given to individuals that have no attachment to the region. I should have said the Han people of Xinjiang hate this policy. Do you honestly think someone from Dalian, Chongqing or Suzhou would care? The answer is no because these regions are developed and the standard of living is very high. When I was working in one of the big four banks in China, I had five Uighur colleagues in our office. The tension of which I spoke on concerns Han and Uighurs in Xinjiang. 
@beijingwalkerhas posted many times on this forum claiming he had no issues with the Uighur except for separatists. Why don't we ask him to clarify? @beijingwalker do you hate ordinary fellow Chinese Uighur citizens? Furthermore, what happens on the net doesn't reflect real life.



Dubious said:


> These Han people quickly jump from Uyghur people to labeling all of them either separatists or terrorists...some jumping as far as killing them - there were 2 PDF Chinese members who were promoting death to the UYGHUR people and I had to give them warning coz such things are against forum policy! And this is online when they are anonymous! Imagine such mentality roaming freely outside! Let alone if such racist people end up in decision making positions!



How do you know these Chinese members are Han? They could be Dai, Bai, Zhuang etc. Furthermore, we can't deny the Uighur have elements of separatism from there community. This is what most Chinese members I believe are referring to. Those who demand the death of innocent Uighurs have no excuse. They are a disgrace to there country, but that doesn't mean the majority hold such views. Let's ask @beijingwalkeragain. brother should innocent Uighur's be killed and death be chanted at them? Racism exists in all societies and taking someone's word from an internet forum as legitimate isn't logical.



Dubious said:


> What is wrong with NOT wanting to be a clone? We have Sindhi with quota system and who dont know Urdu...do we go around jailing them up?



There's nothing wrong with not wanting to become a clone. You do know in China each region has its own dialect. Someone like @beijingwalker who probably resides in Beijing wouldn't understand Sichuanese. The same holds true for the people of Guangdong who still speak Cantonese. If you want to have a good job in a good company within and outside of Xinjiang then you must learn Mandarin, that is the basic standard which must be upheld throughout the whole country. This isn't rocket science its common sense when you have a population of 1.4 billion people. No one is telling the Uighur people they can't speak their own language but they also must learn Mandarin to integrate with the rest of society.



Do you think the Hui people have the same cloned culture as the Han people because they integrated with the rest of Chinese society? The answer is no. If you know Hui culture as I do, then you will know they have there own brand of kung fu dating back more than 800 years ago, their food is much different, they have a totally different language and clothing style.

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## Nilgiri

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang people live the best life they've never lived.



LOL. Shouldn't that be "ever" lived? 

Unintentional truth bomb? @Pakhtoon yum @Itachi

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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> Yes, but refusal all the way to denial to admit a mistake is a mistake in itself!



They can't admit a mistake if it doesn't exist. Religious oppression is not the state policy of the CPC Govt. Otherwise, the other nine ethnic Muslim groups would have faced the same trouble. But have they made a mistake on policy. Of course, they have but why are they accountable to foreign Govt's? Its the internal matter of China just like I don't like the west interfering with our internal policies in Pakistan. Like I told you before, China has evolved since 1978, things will further improve as time goes by. They will have to reform on a whole number of issues.



Dubious said:


> I admit China has done a wonderful job but that is not my argument!
> 
> Not everything the govt did is painted wrongly! I have praised it where necessary! You cant cover the wrongs with the good! Just coz there is 95% good doesnt mean the 5% doesnt exist or is a myth?! That 5% is deadly to a whole nation/ people called Uyghur!
> 
> Look at Pakistan...they "modified" the Islamiyat...the children today dont study what my parents studied or what my generation studied...and are far loss! This is the case in an Islamic country imagine in a country where practicing religion is banned!
> 
> When the next generation will be CLUELESS about their religion...it will be easier for terrorists to recruit them claiming xyz version is the real Islam! It is the same how many people get recruited! MANY clueless souls are sold a version of a religion/ ideology that sounds cool and supporting their scenario...EVEN if the real religion doesnt teach that...THIS is dangerous! Not for now maybe but wait 1 generation and you will see the results...Look at Pakistan or even the 2nd generation Muslims in Europe...they fell for BS that was sold to them as Islam and went to fight a "holy war" without knowing what a Holy war is and that the crusaders are the ONLY ones in modern history who actually termed it that Jihad means strive not holy war...But there was no one to tell them that! Just lunatics calling them to their "duty"!



I don't disagree with this point of view. Clearly, the CPC Govt must find a solution to this problem to bring in harmony. In regards to Islamic education, there are many institutions across China. I forgot the name of the road, but within Beijing itself they have a school for Islamic education for Muslim boys and girls. Yunnan, in particular, is famous for having a number of schools. But on the whole, I agree. If China doesn't change some of its policies then in the long term it will end badly. The consequence will be severe as a whole generation of Uighurs can be radicalized for the wrong purpose.



Dubious said:


> Blanket statements are never good...even the unrelated suffer when you crackdown based on a people! it is like saying that Pathan, Sindhi or Punjabi do that...When we know *not all *Pathan, Sindhi or Punjabi are same...
> 
> 
> *IRRESPECTIVE of that, putting them in concentration camps and oppressing their religion isnt the way!*



My statement wasn't a blanket. You asked what was considered a terrorist and I replied with the answer where Uighurs were attacking indiscriminately with knives and vans to hurt people. It wasn't the Han people going around causing mayhem on the street. Does that mean all Uighur are bad? No. The vast majority are good law abiding citizens. This is what most Chinese members are referring too when they claim such people can't be negotiated with. I agree with the concentration camp, but not about religious oppression.



Dubious said:


> Yes, and you stated your friend while ordering at a Uyghur restaurant as an example...but somehow Beijingwalker himself admitting (so did 2-3 other members) is not enough?



There's a big difference. I never claimed my friend spoke for the Chinese Govt and I spoke of an incident which I was personally involved with. I could see it with my own eyes rather than reading words on a forum or newspaper.

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## Itachi

Brainsucker said:


> Yes, I agree with you. But I have to make some Pakistani Friends here understand. How can they understand and accept what some Chinese Friends here to said, if they don't give any damn understanding that China was, and maybe still a Communist Country that controlled by a Communist Regime. Communism has long gone from China since Deng Xiaoping, but the value still there. And you want them to become a religious country suddenly?
> 
> But, although they're communist, there are already many progress in China in term of respecting religion. They have give you some compromise, although they demand some compromise from religion too. Long time ago, specially in Cultural Revolution era, it was impossible for you to practice your religion. Now, you practically can worship your God there. There are many functioning mosques, temples, and churches. Today, you can find halal food, Universities give Islam some privilege, so both Muslim Professors and Students can enjoy halal food from separated canteen, etc. Even Indonesian Muslim Students feel satisfied and enjoy their religious life in China.
> 
> Isn't that what you call "PROGRESS" ?
> 
> So, I'm with @beijingwalker here.
> 
> 
> 
> It require another progress, bro. But this progress require "Trust" from both side. Without that, no more progress will be happen to both side.



You come off as either a false flagger or a Chinese boot licker. Either way, just like the Chinese, you're spreading your lies and half truths here on PDF.

@Indos here has already explained that the Indonesian govt. doesn't feel satisfied with the Chinese govt. over the Uyghur issue so I don't know why here, on PDF on all places, you're supporting the Chinese propaganda effort.

Providing Halal food and Universities comes under the package of basic human rights, it's nothing to gloat over. You can find the same things in the West and other Asian countries where Muslims are a minority. What matters is putting those Muslim minorities under scrutiny for their beliefs.

@Rasengan same goes for you. You can stop making the Chinese seem like holier than thou, the truth is our there and everyone can see the atrocities of the Chinese in Xinjiang.

*U.S. official denounces 'choreographed' visits to China's Xinjiang*

BEIJING (Reuters) - “Highly choreographed” tours to Xinjiang organized by the Chinese government are misleading and propagate false narratives about the troubled region, a U.S. official said, after China announced plans to invite European envoys to visit.

China has been stepping up a push to counter growing criticism in the West and among rights groups about a controversial de-radicalization program in heavily Muslim Xinjiang, which borders Central Asia.

Critics say China is operating internment camps for Uighurs and other Muslim peoples who live in Xinjiang, though the government calls them vocational training centers and says it has a genuine need to prevent extremist thinking and violence.

China’s foreign ministry said late last week it would invite Beijing-based European diplomats to visit soon. Diplomatic sources said the so-far informal invitation had gone specifically to ambassadors and was planned for this week.

A U.S. government official, asked by Reuters if the U.S. ambassador to China, Terry Branstad, had been invited to visit Xinjiang, said there were no meetings or visits to announce.

“Highly choreographed and chaperoned government-led tours in Xinjiang have propagated false narratives and obfuscated the realities of China’s ongoing human rights abuses in the region,” the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The visit this month would be the first by a large group of Western diplomats to the region since international concern about Xinjiang’s security clampdown began intensifying last year. Hundreds have died in unrest in Xinjiang in recent years.

Several groups of diplomats from other countries have already been brought to Xinjiang on tightly scripted trips since late December to visit the facilities.

There have been two visits by groups including European diplomats to Xinjiang this year. One was a small group of EU diplomats, and the other by a group of diplomats from a broader mix of countries, including missions from Greece, Hungary and North African and Southeast Asian states.

A Reuters journalist visited on a government-organized trip in January.


The U.S. official described what was happening in Xinjiang as “a highly repressive campaign”, and said claims that the facilities were “humane job-training centers” or “boarding schools” were not credible.

“We will continue to call on China to end these counterproductive policies, free all those who have been arbitrarily detained, and cease efforts to coerce members of its Muslim minority groups residing abroad to return to China to face an uncertain fate.”

China’s Foreign Ministry did not immediately respond to a request for comment. China has rejected all foreign criticism of its policies in Xinjiang, and says it invites foreigners to visit to help them better understand the region.

Earlier this month, the U.S. State Department said China’s treatment of Muslims in Xinjiang marked the worst human rights abuses “since the 1930s”.

The issue of Xinjiang adds another irritant to already strained ties between Washington and Beijing, who are trying to end a bitter trade war and have several other areas of disagreement, including the disputed South China Sea and U.S. support for Chinese-claimed Taiwan.

Late last year, more than a dozen ambassadors from Western countries, including France, Britain, Germany and the EU’s top envoy in Beijing, wrote to the government to seek a meeting with Xinjiang’s top official, Communist Party chief Chen Quanguo, to discuss their concerns about the rights situation.

The administration of U.S. President Donald Trump has weighed sanctions against senior Chinese officials in Xinjiang, including Chen.

Two diplomatic sources told Reuters on Saturday that government officials had said a meeting with Chen was not being offered to the European ambassadors, and that the trip was not to discuss human rights but to talk about China-Europe cooperation on President Xi Jinping’s signature Belt and Road project.

It remains unclear whether they would accept the invitation, though the two sources said it was unlikely.

The European Union’s embassy in Beijing has declined to comment on the invitation.


Xi is currently in Europe on a state visit to Italy, Monaco and France. Chinese Premier Li Keqiang goes to Brussels next month for a China-EU summit.

EU leaders said on Friday the bloc must recognize that China is as much a competitor as a partner.

_Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Additional reporting by John Ruwitch in SHANGHAI; Editing by Sam Holmes_

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-usa/u-s-official-denounces-choreographed-visits-to-chinas-xinjiang-idUSKCN1R503R

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indos @Dubious

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## beijingwalker

Rasengan said:


> @beijingwalker[/USER] do you hate ordinary fellow Chinese Uighur citizens?


I love them, I grew up in Haidian district in Beijing, in Beijing, students go to schools in the districts they live, I lived close to 中央民族大学 Central university of nationalities (a strange English name), many of my childhood friends are Uighurs, but they were also born and grew up in Beijing like me, so they are also Beijingers. I love their unique culture and food, their parents often treat me with delicious Xinjiang food when I visited them, Xinjiang food is still my favorite food today.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> *U.S. official denounces 'choreographed' visits to China's Xinjiang*


Do you how much you should trust US, that's what the they of you.

*China, Pakistan, Saudi Worst for Human Rights; Mostly Muslims at the Receiving End – US Reports*
By EurAsian Times

June 23, 2019

The Annual Report on Religious Freedom, released this year has turned quite a few heads at the increasing atrocities towards minorities across the globe especially in China, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The US Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo had a few scathing statements regarding the state of affairs on global religious freedom. The findings along with the statements made by Pompeo been a cause of many foreign states going on the offensive and calling the report ‘biased’ and ‘incendiary’ in nature.

The report is an overview of the large-scale atrocities addressed across 28 nations. It talks about the many governments and non-government actors targeting religious minorities. According to the report, religious freedom continues to deteriorate across the globe. The most violent crimes included genocide, religious marginalisation, forced displacement, rape, enslavement and other such activities that curtail humanity.

One of the major topics of heated discussion was upon the stringent blasphemy laws that impinge the freedom of religious expression in Pakistan. The Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, speaking at the release of the report, estimated that there are more than 40 people who are presently serving life sentences or facing execution for blasphemy in Pakistan.

Aasiya Bibi, a Pakistani-Christian, was convicted of blasphemy in 2010 and sentenced to death. Bibi was found guilty for insinuating curses at the Islamic faith. The law of land for blasphemy in Pakistan includes life imprisonment and/or death.

There were many threats to her family and many Islamic clerics had openly put up a bounty for her death. Among those in support of her acquittal were harassed and physically harmed or even killed. Despite public protests against her, Bibi was acquitted on appeal in 2018 and allowed to leave for Canada.

Pompeo also criticised the Chinese government for its strong and violent persecution of the Muslim Uighurs in Xinjiang province. As an ethnic minority, the Uighurs, have been reportedly kept in “conditions similar to internment camps”. The Human Rights Watch suggests that the Uighur community is being subjected to intense surveillance and media are almost completely banned from the area.

Allegedly anyone found to contact abroad is being targeted and systematically punished. The State Department added that the abuses of religious freedom in China and especially in the Xinjiang province is unbelievable.

“In China, the government’s intense persecution of many faiths – Falun Gong practitioners, Christians, and Tibetan Buddhists among them – is the norm,” Pompeo said. The statement alluding to the systematic oppression of the Falun Gong spiritual movement over the feigned idea that the movement is supposedly ‘superstitious in nature and a foreign-driven menace to society’.

The Chinese government has reportedly persecuted almost 3000 documented practitioners. The other instances of persecution of Tibetan Buddhists and Christians have long been Party Headquarters agenda. All these cases were specifically mentioned in the report about China.

A rather interesting development in this report is the criticism of Saudi Arabia. The Trump administration has often shied away from bad-mouthing Saudi Arabia owing to its bountiful vested trade interests. The detainment of more than thousand Shias for non-violent offences has been something that has been touched upon in the report, portraying discrimination on their part.

The rise of Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed Bin Salman Al Saud, has hardly been able to garner the same positive momentum that was initially found to be the case. Sam Brownback, Ambassador at-Large for International Religious Freedom, is of the view that the ascend of the Crown Prince has been rather disappointing.

“I think there was a lot of hope at first in the change of leadership that things would open up substantially. They continue to be one of the worst actors in the world on religious persecution. We need to see actions take place in a positive direction,” he told reporters.

In April, which was after the timeframe of the 2018 report, Saudi Arabia conducted a mass execution of 37 people, most of them Shiites. The charges of execution ranged from alleged involvement in terrorist activities, espionage and protest-related offences.

Humans Rights Watch (HRW) suggested that one of the Saudi Shias was crucified after being beheaded, while the UN rights chief said at least three of those executed were minors when charged. Among the 37 people charged, 33 of them were Shia, which makes the act premeditated.

Michael Paige, deputy Middle East Director at HRW, suggests that the Saudis are falsely claiming that the detainees had extremist tendencies and that there is an utter lack of due process in their conviction and execution. The ‘criminals’ were solely condemned on the basis of confessions that were credibly found to be coerced.

The various inputs within the report make for an interesting insight into the impending danger of incited violence from various actors that has seemingly led to a pandemic. During the press release of the report, Mike Pompeo announced that the United States would host the first-ever “Ministerial to Advance Religious Freedom”.

This Ministerial would bring together governments, religious community leaders, NGOs which focus on religious freedom and protection watch. This is being done to “drive the issue of religious freedom more aggressively globally” according to Ambassador Sam Brownback. This is an important and possibly an effective development in promoting religious freedom in foreign policy discourse.

https://eurasiantimes.com/china-pak...stly-muslims-at-the-receiving-end-us-reports/

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Do you how much you should trust US, that's what the they of you.
> 
> *China, Pakistan, Saudi Worst for Human Rights; Mostly Muslims at the Receiving End – US Reports*
> By EurAsian Times
> 
> June 23, 2019
> 
> The Annual Report on Religious Freedom, released this year has turned quite a few heads at the increasing atrocities towards minorities across the globe especially in China, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The US Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo had a few scathing statements regarding the state of affairs on global religious freedom. The findings along with the statements made by Pompeo been a cause of many foreign states going on the offensive and calling the report ‘biased’ and ‘incendiary’ in nature.
> 
> The report is an overview of the large-scale atrocities addressed across 28 nations. It talks about the many governments and non-government actors targeting religious minorities. According to the report, religious freedom continues to deteriorate across the globe. The most violent crimes included genocide, religious marginalisation, forced displacement, rape, enslavement and other such activities that curtail humanity.
> 
> One of the major topics of heated discussion was upon the stringent blasphemy laws that impinge the freedom of religious expression in Pakistan. The Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, speaking at the release of the report, estimated that there are more than 40 people who are presently serving life sentences or facing execution for blasphemy in Pakistan.
> 
> Aasiya Bibi, a Pakistani-Christian, was convicted of blasphemy in 2010 and sentenced to death. Bibi was found guilty for insinuating curses at the Islamic faith. The law of land for blasphemy in Pakistan includes life imprisonment and/or death.
> 
> There were many threats to her family and many Islamic clerics had openly put up a bounty for her death. Among those in support of her acquittal were harassed and physically harmed or even killed. Despite public protests against her, Bibi was acquitted on appeal in 2018 and allowed to leave for Canada.
> 
> Pompeo also criticised the Chinese government for its strong and violent persecution of the Muslim Uighurs in Xinjiang province. As an ethnic minority, the Uighurs, have been reportedly kept in “conditions similar to internment camps”. The Human Rights Watch suggests that the Uighur community is being subjected to intense surveillance and media are almost completely banned from the area.
> 
> Allegedly anyone found to contact abroad is being targeted and systematically punished. The State Department added that the abuses of religious freedom in China and especially in the Xinjiang province is unbelievable.
> 
> “In China, the government’s intense persecution of many faiths – Falun Gong practitioners, Christians, and Tibetan Buddhists among them – is the norm,” Pompeo said. The statement alluding to the systematic oppression of the Falun Gong spiritual movement over the feigned idea that the movement is supposedly ‘superstitious in nature and a foreign-driven menace to society’.
> 
> The Chinese government has reportedly persecuted almost 3000 documented practitioners. The other instances of persecution of Tibetan Buddhists and Christians have long been Party Headquarters agenda. All these cases were specifically mentioned in the report about China.
> 
> A rather interesting development in this report is the criticism of Saudi Arabia. The Trump administration has often shied away from bad-mouthing Saudi Arabia owing to its bountiful vested trade interests. The detainment of more than thousand Shias for non-violent offences has been something that has been touched upon in the report, portraying discrimination on their part.
> 
> The rise of Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed Bin Salman Al Saud, has hardly been able to garner the same positive momentum that was initially found to be the case. Sam Brownback, Ambassador at-Large for International Religious Freedom, is of the view that the ascend of the Crown Prince has been rather disappointing.
> 
> “I think there was a lot of hope at first in the change of leadership that things would open up substantially. They continue to be one of the worst actors in the world on religious persecution. We need to see actions take place in a positive direction,” he told reporters.
> 
> In April, which was after the timeframe of the 2018 report, Saudi Arabia conducted a mass execution of 37 people, most of them Shiites. The charges of execution ranged from alleged involvement in terrorist activities, espionage and protest-related offences.
> 
> Humans Rights Watch (HRW) suggested that one of the Saudi Shias was crucified after being beheaded, while the UN rights chief said at least three of those executed were minors when charged. Among the 37 people charged, 33 of them were Shia, which makes the act premeditated.
> 
> Michael Paige, deputy Middle East Director at HRW, suggests that the Saudis are falsely claiming that the detainees had extremist tendencies and that there is an utter lack of due process in their conviction and execution. The ‘criminals’ were solely condemned on the basis of confessions that were credibly found to be coerced.
> 
> The various inputs within the report make for an interesting insight into the impending danger of incited violence from various actors that has seemingly led to a pandemic. During the press release of the report, Mike Pompeo announced that the United States would host the first-ever “Ministerial to Advance Religious Freedom”.
> 
> This Ministerial would bring together governments, religious community leaders, NGOs which focus on religious freedom and protection watch. This is being done to “drive the issue of religious freedom more aggressively globally” according to Ambassador Sam Brownback. This is an important and possibly an effective development in promoting religious freedom in foreign policy discourse.
> 
> https://eurasiantimes.com/china-pak...stly-muslims-at-the-receiving-end-us-reports/



Again, this is about China, not Pakistan. I already know of the conditions in Pakistan, I don't deny them like a brainwashed zombie.


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## Brainsucker

Itachi said:


> You come off as either a false flagger or a Chinese boot licker. Either way, just like the Chinese, you're spreading your lies and half truths here on PDF.
> 
> @Indos here has already explained that the Indonesian govt. doesn't feel satisfied with the Chinese govt. over the Uyghur issue so I don't know why here, on PDF on all places, you're supporting the Chinese propaganda effort.
> 
> Providing Halal food and Universities comes under the package of basic human rights, it's nothing to gloat over. You can find the same things in the West and other Asian countries where Muslims are a minority. What matters is putting those Muslim minorities under scrutiny for their beliefs.
> 
> @Rasengan same goes for you. You can stop making the Chinese seem like holier than thou, the truth is our there and everyone can see the atrocities of the Chinese in Xinjiang.
> 
> *U.S. official denounces 'choreographed' visits to China's Xinjiang*
> 
> BEIJING (Reuters) - “Highly choreographed” tours to Xinjiang organized by the Chinese government are misleading and propagate false narratives about the troubled region, a U.S. official said, after China announced plans to invite European envoys to visit.
> 
> China has been stepping up a push to counter growing criticism in the West and among rights groups about a controversial de-radicalization program in heavily Muslim Xinjiang, which borders Central Asia.
> 
> Critics say China is operating internment camps for Uighurs and other Muslim peoples who live in Xinjiang, though the government calls them vocational training centers and says it has a genuine need to prevent extremist thinking and violence.
> 
> China’s foreign ministry said late last week it would invite Beijing-based European diplomats to visit soon. Diplomatic sources said the so-far informal invitation had gone specifically to ambassadors and was planned for this week.
> 
> A U.S. government official, asked by Reuters if the U.S. ambassador to China, Terry Branstad, had been invited to visit Xinjiang, said there were no meetings or visits to announce.
> 
> “Highly choreographed and chaperoned government-led tours in Xinjiang have propagated false narratives and obfuscated the realities of China’s ongoing human rights abuses in the region,” the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
> 
> The visit this month would be the first by a large group of Western diplomats to the region since international concern about Xinjiang’s security clampdown began intensifying last year. Hundreds have died in unrest in Xinjiang in recent years.
> 
> Several groups of diplomats from other countries have already been brought to Xinjiang on tightly scripted trips since late December to visit the facilities.
> 
> There have been two visits by groups including European diplomats to Xinjiang this year. One was a small group of EU diplomats, and the other by a group of diplomats from a broader mix of countries, including missions from Greece, Hungary and North African and Southeast Asian states.
> 
> A Reuters journalist visited on a government-organized trip in January.
> 
> 
> The U.S. official described what was happening in Xinjiang as “a highly repressive campaign”, and said claims that the facilities were “humane job-training centers” or “boarding schools” were not credible.
> 
> “We will continue to call on China to end these counterproductive policies, free all those who have been arbitrarily detained, and cease efforts to coerce members of its Muslim minority groups residing abroad to return to China to face an uncertain fate.”
> 
> China’s Foreign Ministry did not immediately respond to a request for comment. China has rejected all foreign criticism of its policies in Xinjiang, and says it invites foreigners to visit to help them better understand the region.
> 
> Earlier this month, the U.S. State Department said China’s treatment of Muslims in Xinjiang marked the worst human rights abuses “since the 1930s”.
> 
> The issue of Xinjiang adds another irritant to already strained ties between Washington and Beijing, who are trying to end a bitter trade war and have several other areas of disagreement, including the disputed South China Sea and U.S. support for Chinese-claimed Taiwan.
> 
> Late last year, more than a dozen ambassadors from Western countries, including France, Britain, Germany and the EU’s top envoy in Beijing, wrote to the government to seek a meeting with Xinjiang’s top official, Communist Party chief Chen Quanguo, to discuss their concerns about the rights situation.
> 
> The administration of U.S. President Donald Trump has weighed sanctions against senior Chinese officials in Xinjiang, including Chen.
> 
> Two diplomatic sources told Reuters on Saturday that government officials had said a meeting with Chen was not being offered to the European ambassadors, and that the trip was not to discuss human rights but to talk about China-Europe cooperation on President Xi Jinping’s signature Belt and Road project.
> 
> It remains unclear whether they would accept the invitation, though the two sources said it was unlikely.
> 
> The European Union’s embassy in Beijing has declined to comment on the invitation.
> 
> 
> Xi is currently in Europe on a state visit to Italy, Monaco and France. Chinese Premier Li Keqiang goes to Brussels next month for a China-EU summit.
> 
> EU leaders said on Friday the bloc must recognize that China is as much a competitor as a partner.
> 
> _Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Additional reporting by John Ruwitch in SHANGHAI; Editing by Sam Holmes_
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-usa/u-s-official-denounces-choreographed-visits-to-chinas-xinjiang-idUSKCN1R503R
> 
> @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indos @Dubious



With this hostile attitude like this, I don't think that there is no room for any discussion between us. It just a waste of my breath because nothing that I can do to change your mind; nor you have any polite means to change mine. You just want to attack me with your hostile intention, so why should I bother.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indos @Dubious It's up to you guys. You know what my position in this discussion. If you think that I'm just a troll, I have nothing to say about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Itachi

Brainsucker said:


> With this hostile attitude like this, I don't think that there is no room for any discussion between us. It just a waste of my breath because nothing that I can do to change your mind; nor you have any polite means to change mine. You just want to attack me with your hostile intention, so why should I bother.



lol kiddo....I'm being hostile??

Damn.....stop being offended by words of a stranger on the internet.


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## Rasengan

beijingwalker said:


> I love them, I grew up in Haidian district in Beijing, in Beijing, students go to schools in the districts they live, I lived close to 中央民族大学 Central university of nationalities (a strange English name), many of my childhood friends are Uighurs, but they were also born and grew up in Beijing like me, so they are also Beijingers. I love their unique culture and food, their parents often treat me with delicious Xinjiang food when I visited them, Xinjiang food is still my favorite food today.



Thank you. I am familiar with Haidian district it has many mosques in close proximity to each other. Xinjiang food is very nice, and since you enjoy the cuisine then that means you will be a big fan of Pakistani food if you happen to eat it in the future Xinjiang barbeque is very similar to Pakistani barbeque. 

This is what Chinese people need to highlight brother, stories such as the one mentioned in your post. People can be very ignorant like I mentioned in my previous post, so the Chinese must educate them. If you apply anger then you will allow them to trap you. Once again, thank you, for telling us a story from your childhood. I hope you all continue to remain friends. I love Beijing, the city had character.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Rasengan

Itachi said:


> You come off as either a false flagger or a Chinese boot licker. Either way, just like the Chinese, you're spreading your lies and half truths here on PDF.
> 
> @Indos here has already explained that the Indonesian govt. doesn't feel satisfied with the Chinese govt. over the Uyghur issue so I don't know why here, on PDF on all places, you're supporting the Chinese propaganda effort.
> 
> Providing Halal food and Universities comes under the package of basic human rights, it's nothing to gloat over. You can find the same things in the West and other Asian countries where Muslims are a minority. What matters is putting those Muslim minorities under scrutiny for their beliefs.
> 
> @Rasengan same goes for you. You can stop making the Chinese seem like holier than thou, the truth is our there and everyone can see the atrocities of the Chinese in Xinjiang.



I can write whatever I like Why do you have a terrible itch if I support the Chinese? You won't change my opinion on the Chinese people. You see @beijingwalker this is a prime example of someone who can't handle the idea of a Pakistani supporting China, but he can't do anything, except moan on a forum.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan I remember you said previously no Chinese member has the right to question a Pakistani poster on his loyalty to the country, doesn't that apply to us as well? What right does @Itachi have in calling @Brainsucker a Chinese bootlicker and an Indonesian false flagger?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Do you how much you should trust US, that's what the they of you.
> 
> *China, Pakistan, Saudi Worst for Human Rights; Mostly Muslims at the Receiving End – US Reports*
> By EurAsian Times
> 
> June 23, 2019
> 
> The Annual Report on Religious Freedom, released this year has turned quite a few heads at the increasing atrocities towards minorities across the globe especially in China, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The US Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo had a few scathing statements regarding the state of affairs on global religious freedom. The findings along with the statements made by Pompeo been a cause of many foreign states going on the offensive and calling the report ‘biased’ and ‘incendiary’ in nature.
> 
> The report is an overview of the large-scale atrocities addressed across 28 nations. It talks about the many governments and non-government actors targeting religious minorities. According to the report, religious freedom continues to deteriorate across the globe. The most violent crimes included genocide, religious marginalisation, forced displacement, rape, enslavement and other such activities that curtail humanity.
> 
> One of the major topics of heated discussion was upon the stringent blasphemy laws that impinge the freedom of religious expression in Pakistan. The Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, speaking at the release of the report, estimated that there are more than 40 people who are presently serving life sentences or facing execution for blasphemy in Pakistan.
> 
> Aasiya Bibi, a Pakistani-Christian, was convicted of blasphemy in 2010 and sentenced to death. Bibi was found guilty for insinuating curses at the Islamic faith. The law of land for blasphemy in Pakistan includes life imprisonment and/or death.
> 
> There were many threats to her family and many Islamic clerics had openly put up a bounty for her death. Among those in support of her acquittal were harassed and physically harmed or even killed. Despite public protests against her, Bibi was acquitted on appeal in 2018 and allowed to leave for Canada.
> 
> Pompeo also criticised the Chinese government for its strong and violent persecution of the Muslim Uighurs in Xinjiang province. As an ethnic minority, the Uighurs, have been reportedly kept in “conditions similar to internment camps”. The Human Rights Watch suggests that the Uighur community is being subjected to intense surveillance and media are almost completely banned from the area.
> 
> Allegedly anyone found to contact abroad is being targeted and systematically punished. The State Department added that the abuses of religious freedom in China and especially in the Xinjiang province is unbelievable.
> 
> “In China, the government’s intense persecution of many faiths – Falun Gong practitioners, Christians, and Tibetan Buddhists among them – is the norm,” Pompeo said. The statement alluding to the systematic oppression of the Falun Gong spiritual movement over the feigned idea that the movement is supposedly ‘superstitious in nature and a foreign-driven menace to society’.
> 
> The Chinese government has reportedly persecuted almost 3000 documented practitioners. The other instances of persecution of Tibetan Buddhists and Christians have long been Party Headquarters agenda. All these cases were specifically mentioned in the report about China.
> 
> A rather interesting development in this report is the criticism of Saudi Arabia. The Trump administration has often shied away from bad-mouthing Saudi Arabia owing to its bountiful vested trade interests. The detainment of more than thousand Shias for non-violent offences has been something that has been touched upon in the report, portraying discrimination on their part.
> 
> The rise of Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed Bin Salman Al Saud, has hardly been able to garner the same positive momentum that was initially found to be the case. Sam Brownback, Ambassador at-Large for International Religious Freedom, is of the view that the ascend of the Crown Prince has been rather disappointing.
> 
> “I think there was a lot of hope at first in the change of leadership that things would open up substantially. They continue to be one of the worst actors in the world on religious persecution. We need to see actions take place in a positive direction,” he told reporters.
> 
> In April, which was after the timeframe of the 2018 report, Saudi Arabia conducted a mass execution of 37 people, most of them Shiites. The charges of execution ranged from alleged involvement in terrorist activities, espionage and protest-related offences.
> 
> Humans Rights Watch (HRW) suggested that one of the Saudi Shias was crucified after being beheaded, while the UN rights chief said at least three of those executed were minors when charged. Among the 37 people charged, 33 of them were Shia, which makes the act premeditated.
> 
> Michael Paige, deputy Middle East Director at HRW, suggests that the Saudis are falsely claiming that the detainees had extremist tendencies and that there is an utter lack of due process in their conviction and execution. The ‘criminals’ were solely condemned on the basis of confessions that were credibly found to be coerced.
> 
> The various inputs within the report make for an interesting insight into the impending danger of incited violence from various actors that has seemingly led to a pandemic. During the press release of the report, Mike Pompeo announced that the United States would host the first-ever “Ministerial to Advance Religious Freedom”.
> 
> This Ministerial would bring together governments, religious community leaders, NGOs which focus on religious freedom and protection watch. This is being done to “drive the issue of religious freedom more aggressively globally” according to Ambassador Sam Brownback. This is an important and possibly an effective development in promoting religious freedom in foreign policy discourse.
> 
> https://eurasiantimes.com/china-pak...stly-muslims-at-the-receiving-end-us-reports/


And you asked me when you drag in Pakistan. ...you just did...

In fact you do so often it's like a trigger response...

When can't reply drag in Pakistan and point out about it

Thread is about China keep it that way!



Brainsucker said:


> With this hostile attitude like this, I don't think that there is no room for any discussion between us. It just a waste of my breath because nothing that I can do to change your mind; nor you have any polite means to change mine. You just want to attack me with your hostile intention, so why should I bother.
> 
> @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indos @Dubious It's up to you guys. You know what my position in this discussion. If you think that I'm just a troll, I have nothing to say about it.


You call that hostile? Have you seen how Chinese members shamelessly attack here?

Have you read their off topic posts?
I just caught beijingwalker dragging in Pakistan AGAIN coz he can't answer about US visit to concentration camp while he himself presented foreigners visit to concentration camp from chinese sources. ..but when we use western sources with interviews he drags in Pakistan saudi or any Muslim country he can think off....

Why foreign delegates on chinese paper is acceptable but same foreign delegates on Western paper is propaganda?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> They can't admit a mistake if it doesn't exist.


Wow that is so wrong ...to err is human! It is human nature to make a mistake and claiming they don't us just a lie



Rasengan said:


> Religious oppression is not the state policy of the CPC Govt.


It is...
Two chinese members already admitted it that public display of religion is not allowed in public places,, even institutions meaning a student or an employee can't conduct 5 daily prayer in a public institution...or are you telling me those 2 chinese members are re lying and you with Pakistani flags know better just coz you have been to China or have chinese friends? ...when France did this it was challenged and called a violation of basic human right to practice religion. 

It is a violation of human rights even if it is not how they see it or how their laws see it!



Rasengan said:


> But have they made a mistake on policy. *Of course, they have *but why are they accountable to foreign Govt's? Its the internal matter of China just like I don't like the west interfering with our internal policies in Pakistan. Like I told you before, China has evolved since 1978, things will further improve as time goes by. They will have to reform on a whole number of issues


You are contradicting yourself again ...first you said there is no mistake then you claimed yes there is a mistake but it is internal matter...

Well internal matter should also prevent Buddhism and prevent monks from walking around in public places like temples, yea?

Pakistanis have absolutely no problem with them fighting separatists as they feel fit but 
to actually oppress them is against basic human rights....
To lock them in concentration camps in oppression of basic human rights.
To prevent them from preforming their religion 5x a day for years coz they are in a public concentration camp is basic abuse of right the religion. ..

And if it internal matter what has China done to reduce the tension except force feed these people the Han way?

When you oppress a nation or people...foreign powers will come in to these people and give them findings to cause chaos...With falso hopes that they are bring helped when really foreign powers are causing trouble.....so if China doesn't fix it...they are doomed in the future!
And we can't have another problematic border coz of China's blind ego of failing to see what they do wrong



Rasengan said:


> I don't disagree with this point of view. Clearly, the CPC Govt must find a solution to this problem to bring in harmony. In regards to Islamic education, there are many institutions across China. I forgot the name of the road, but within Beijing itself they have a school for Islamic education for Muslim boys and girls. Yunnan, in particular, is famous for having a number of schools. But on the whole, I agree. If China doesn't change some of its policies then in the long term it will end badly. The consequence will be severe as a whole generation of Uighurs can be radicalized for the wrong purpose.


And Pakistan's concern is legit because we don't want another unstable border being exploited by foreigners coz China failed it's people

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> And you asked me when you drag in Pakistan. ...you just did...
> 
> In fact you do so often it's like a trigger response...
> 
> When can't reply drag in Pakistan and point out about it
> 
> Thread is about China keep it that way!
> 
> 
> You call that hostile? Have you seen how Chinese members shamelessly attack here?


I was quoting what US says since he used US official statement as an undisputable source, you can claim I also drag Saudi Arabia in.

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> And Pakistan's concern is legit because we don't want another unstable border being exploited by foreigners coz China failed it's people


I m not in the mood to argue with you now, but I can tell you that China doesn't fail her people, we Chinese are the ones to judge if our government fails us or not, not foreigners, US accused us of being a failed state for 7 decades , China is not prefect but she is also not a failed state just because you and US say so.

As for a stable border, Pakistan has no other borders that are more stable than the ones with China, so you don't have to worry.

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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> Wow that is so wrong ...to err is human! It is human nature to make a mistake and claiming they don't us just a lie



There's nothing wrong. Why should a human being admit to a mistake if he hasn't committed a crime? The same analogy can be used on the Chinese Govt. Why should they admit to a mistake on religious oppression when it doesn't exist. It's an illusion created by vested interests to weaken China of which some Pakistani's have fallen for without ever visiting the country. 



Dubious said:


> It is...
> Two chinese members already admitted it that public display of religion is not allowed in public places,, even institutions meaning a student or an employee can't conduct 5 daily prayer in a public institution...or are you telling me those 2 chinese members are re lying and you with Pakistani flags know better just coz you have been to China or have chinese friends? ...when France did this it was challenged and called a violation of basic human right to practice religion.
> 
> It is a violation of human rights even if it is not how they see it or how their laws see it!



The Chinese don't allow prayers in public places but that is for all religious and ethnic groups. Chinese New Year is an excellent example. They don't allow large groups of people to conduct the dragon dance but they can do it within the indoor area. I don't agree with this policy, it needs to change, but you are advocating this policy is made just for Muslim's. In China, if you want to become a member of the communist's party then you must have no religious affiliation. People are given a choice, whether they accept it is their business. Do I agree with this policy? No. Does that mean people who work for State Owned Enterprises can't pray? They can, as in most SOEs you have a two-hour break and my colleagues prayed at the Nandouya Mosque. The problem with most Pakistani's on this issue is they are looking at this problem from a distance. Whatever your opinion is on the subject at least visit the country before giving a verdict. 




Dubious said:


> You are contradicting yourself again ...first you said there is no mistake then you claimed yes there is a mistake but it is internal matter...



You need to read things in context. I have never said the Chinese Govt has never made a mistake, but I don't agree it's based upon religious oppression. When I was referring to issues being an internal matter of China I gave many examples of policies which you ignored. For example the housing problem, University exemptions, and language. On these issues, the Chinese Govt is accountable to no foreign Govt. 

I have outlined quite extensively, how some accusations are simply false like Uighurs are forced to drink alcohol, forced to eat pork, are forbidden to wear religious caps under the age 40, forbidden to pray or keep fast during Ramadan. Repeating an accusation 100 times won't still make it true.



Dubious said:


> Well internal matter should also prevent Buddhism and prevent monks from walking around in public places like temples, yea?



Buddhist don't pray in public places, they do it inside there place of worship which is a temple. The same applies to Muslim's, they can pray inside a mosque. @beijingwalker is from Haidian district in Beijing and there are many mosques for Muslim worshippers.




Dubious said:


> Pakistanis have absolutely no problem with them fighting separatists as they feel fit but
> to actually oppress them is against basic human rights....
> To lock them in concentration camps in oppression of basic human rights.
> To prevent them from preforming their religion 5x a day for years coz they are in a public concentration camp is basic abuse of right the religion. ..



Clearly, some Pakistani's do. In another thread, @Itachi was openly supporting the separatist's groups which have triggered some Chinese members. The rest of your post has been answered. It's your assumption, that they are being oppressed inside those camps, but like with all widescale oppression you have an uprising. History is a testament to this fact. The Jews were oppressed and the Warsaw Ghetto rebellion occurred. The Isreali's were oppressing the Palestinians and we had the intifada. Who is the police force in Xinjiang? Uighur. What about the local bureacracy? Uighur.



Dubious said:


> And if it internal matter what has China done to reduce the tension except force feed these people the Han way?



You didn't answer my question. There are ten ethnic Muslim groups in China. But for argument sake let's focus on the largest group the Hui. Is Hui culture forced to follow the Han culture? If your answer is yes, then your knowledge is limited. Why do the Uighurs in large numbers hate all other Muslim groups? Integrating with society doesn't mean following the Han culture. It means co-existing with your neighbours and not having prejudices based upon ethnicities. Lets ask @beijingwalker. Do the people of Dai who come from Yunnan province or Hui follow Han culture?

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## beijingwalker

What do girls do in their dormitaries in Xinjiang concentration camps






After class, Concentration campers always go for snacks in concentration camp grocery stores.

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## Indos

Rasengan said:


> You didn't answer my question. There are ten ethnic Muslim groups in China. But for argument sake let's focus on the largest group the Hui. Is Hui culture forced to follow the Han culture? If your answer is yes, then your knowledge is limited. Why do the Uighurs in large numbers hate all other Muslim groups? Integrating with society doesn't mean following the Han culture. It means co-existing with your neighbours and not having prejudices based upon ethnicities. Lets ask @beijingwalker. Do the people of Dai who come from Yunnan province or Hui follow Han culture?



You need to read this

*Chinese official says 'sinicization' of religion in Xinjiang must go on*

SHANGHAI (Reuters) - The “sinicization” of religion must be upheld to promote ethnic solidarity and religious harmony, a senior Chinese official has said in the troubled western region of Xinjiang, which is home to a large Muslim population.

China’s state-run Xinhua news agency on Saturday quoted You Quan, head of the ruling Communist Party’s United Front Work Department, which oversees ethnic and religious affairs, as making the remarks on a visit to Xinjiang this week.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...religion-in-xinjiang-must-go-on-idUSKCN1MN0P9

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## beijingwalker

Rasengan said:


> @beijingwalker[/USER]. Do the people of Dai who come from Yunnan province or Hui follow Han culture?


Hui people in Beijing are very similar to Han people, they don't eat pork though, but Hui people from Hui Muslim regions strictly follow Islamic way of life, one of my best childhood friend told me that Hui people from Ningxia Hui province call them “东土回回” （eastern Hui） and they don't think eastern Hui are authentic Hui and kind of look down on them.
Hui Muslims were the main force of ruling Xinjiang during Qing dynasty and ROC administrations, and during those time they were pretty heavy handed, so there is a feud running between Hui Muslim and Uighurs, without a central government, they will be at each other's throats the very next day, Hui people are renowned fearless warriors, they formed some of the toughest Chinese force fighting Japanese during WWII, China's defence minister during that time 白崇禧 was a Hui general, many Hui generals became household name war heros during the war.

In late 1940's, there was an Uighur independent movement in Xinjiang, some Uighurs insurgencies delared independence, Kazaks wanted to remain with China so Kazak forces started waging wars against Uighurs led by Kazak warlord 乌斯曼, Kazaks had fewer people but were better fighters, they killed many Uighurs including some prominant Uighur leaders, Uighurs and Kazaks are two feuding opposing forces in Xinjiang, they were never friends.

I don't know much about Dai (Thai) people, never met one.

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## Rasengan

Indos said:


> You need to read this
> 
> *Chinese official says 'sinicization' of religion in Xinjiang must go on*
> 
> SHANGHAI (Reuters) - The “sinicization” of religion must be upheld to promote ethnic solidarity and religious harmony, a senior Chinese official has said in the troubled western region of Xinjiang, which is home to a large Muslim population.
> 
> China’s state-run Xinhua news agency on Saturday quoted You Quan, head of the ruling Communist Party’s United Front Work Department, which oversees ethnic and religious affairs, as making the remarks on a visit to Xinjiang this week.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...religion-in-xinjiang-must-go-on-idUSKCN1MN0P9



I have read the article. The western media is very good at manipulating words. Mr Quan never used the word sinicization of the Muslim faith in Xinjiang. This is a term used by Reuters who were giving a conjecture rather than a fact. 

What did Mr Quan say? "The party's leadership over the religious work must be upheld." The translation I can tell was bad. But for argument sake what is he referring to? The answer is given in the next sentence. "Infiltration of extremism must be guarded against." Nothing wrong with this idea. Religious extremism must be stopped its a plague. 

What did Mr Quan say next? "That people in religious circles can inherit and carry forward the fine traditions to love the motherland, and their faith, lead religious believers to follow the faith and abide by the law and contribute to the healthy development of Islam." Nothing wrong with this statement. His words confirm the idea that you can be a Muslim and still love China.



beijingwalker said:


> Hui people in Beijing are very similar to Han people, they don't eat pork though, but Hui people from Hui Muslim regions strictly follow Islamic way of life, one of my best childhood friend told me that Hui people from Ningxia Hui province call them “东土回回” （eastern Hui） and they don't eastern Hui are not authentic Hui and kind of look down on them.
> Hui Muslims were the main force of ruling Xinjiang during Qing dynasty and ROC administrations, and during those time they were pretty heavy handed, so there is a feud running between Hui Muslim and Uighurs, without a central government, they will be at each other's throats the very next day, Hui people are renowned fearless warriors, they formed some of the toughest Chinese force fighting Japanese during WWII, China's defence minister during that time 白崇禧 was a Hui generals, many Hui generals became household name war heros during the war.
> 
> In late 1940's, there was an Uighur independent movement in Xinjiang, some Uighurs insurgencies delared independence, Kazak wanted to remain with China so Kazak forces started waging wars against Uighurs led by Kazak warlord 乌斯曼, Kazaks had fewer people but were better fighters, they killed many Uighurs including some prominant Uighur leaders, Uighurs and Kazaks are two feuding opposing forces in Xinjiang, they were never friends.



Thank you for pointing this out brother. I am familiar with many of the things you have said. But Pakistani people and foreigners, in general, are ignorant on this issue.

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## beijingwalker

Tajiks in China are being called the most patriotic people in China, the reason they love China so much is largely because the central government offers them a protection umbrella so other Muslim groups can no longer bully them, Tajiks have far fewer population than other Muslim groups in Xinjiang and had a abysmal history of having their people sold into slavery by other Muslim groups in Xinjiang.

https://www.baidu.com/s?wd=塔吉克族最爱国的...=utf-8&tn=baiduhome_pg&rsv_enter=1&rsv_sug3=1

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## Indos

Rasengan said:


> I have read the article. The western media is very good at manipulating words. Mr Quan never used the word sinicization of the Muslim faith in Xinjiang. This is a term used by Reuters who were giving a conjecture rather than a fact.



Another one:

*Advisers hail sinicization of religions*

By Cao Siqi Source:Global Times Published: 2019/3/10

*Religious integration in socialist society key to harmony, says expert*






Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC) members from religious circles hold a joint conference on Thursday in Beijing during the two sessions. Photo: Cao Siqi/GT

*Chinese political advisers from five main religions hailed the country's efforts to promote social stability and vowed to continue adhering to the sinicization of religions and make greater efforts to better integrate religions into the socialist society. *

In a panel discussion during the second session of the 13th National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC), Wang Yang, chairman of the CPPCC National Committee, said that religious issues have a bearing on social harmony, ethnic solidarity and national security, the Xinhua News Agency reported.

He spoke of the need to raise awareness of the rule of law to maintain harmony and stability in religious circles, and ensure religions better adapt themselves to socialist society, Xinhua reported.

At the panel discussion, Zhan Ru, deputy head of the China Buddhist Association and a CPPCC member, said that *Chinese Buddhist culture is a window for the world to understand Chinese culture and Chinese religion.*

Taking Buddhism as a platform for dialogue, it is important to strengthen the internal harmony of Chinese religions and promote exchanges between Chinese Buddhism and world Buddhism.

Adiljang Ajikrim, deputy head of the China Islamic Association, said that *2019 is the key to implementing the five-year (2018-22) outline on the sinicization of Islam* and the key to the direction is to construct the Islamic doctrine system with Chinese characteristics and cultivate high-quality talent.

He suggested that the government continue to unify the compilation and publishing textbooks for China's Islamic institutes and strengthen the interpretation of the doctrines in multiple platforms and channels.

Yang Faming, head of the China Islamic Association, told the China News Service that *upholding the direction of sinicization of religion should correctly understand the relationship between national laws and religious regulations. *

Yang said the association has drafted a regulation on Islamic personnel's code of conduct.

In a joint conference held on Thursday, Dai Junfeng, the head of the Islamic Association in Kunming, Southwest China's Yunnan Province and a CPPCC member, *also vowed to explore more paths for the sinicization of Islam. *

Dai told the Global Times that during the past year, his association has been implementing the initiative advocated by the China Islamic Association, *which urged nationwide Islamic associations to raise the national flag at mosques, require religious personnel to study the Chinese Constitution, socialist core values and traditional Chinese culture.*

His association has established a district to demonstrate national unity and progress, and integrate the study of classic doctrines with socialist core values, he said.

Huang Zhi'an, deputy head of the Taoism Association of China, said that *Taoism is the native religion of China. *

However, *the religion has been lacking vitality for the years.* "The key to solving this problem is to train a group of top Taoist talent," Huang told the Global Times.

Shen Bin, deputy head of the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association, also said that Catholicism has been experiencing ups and downs after being introduced to China because *the local churches failed to implement the principle of independence and self-management, and didn't integrate with Chinese culture. *

The Catholic Church in China needs to *adhere to the leadership of the Communist Party of China, uphold the direction of sinicization* and strengthen the implementation of the Regulation on Religious Affairs, Shen said.

Zhang Keyun, deputy head of China Christian Council, stressed the need to build a mechanism for religious work in rural areas, strengthen management in accordance with the law and guide the exploration of the sinicization of Christianity.

Kan Baoping, deputy head of the Three-Self Patriotic Movement Committee of the Protestant Church in China, stressed the need to *unite Christians in China to resist external infiltration and walk on the path of loving the country and the church. *

In September 2017, leaders from the five religious communities reached a consensus at a forum, "Chinese culture and religious sinicization," in Beijing. They agreed that "the direction of religions is to integrate with Chinese culture."

In March 2018, the Christian community announced the implementation of a five-year outline, which requires the community to strengthen the theological foundation for the sinicization of Christianity.

Catholic churches passed a draft version of a five-year outline to promote the sinicization of Catholicism in December 2017.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1141560.shtml

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## Rasengan

Indos said:


> Another one:



You didn't even respond to my first post. There is no point debating if you are going to continue spamming articles without analysing the content. But I will read the article you posted.​

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## beijingwalker

Indos said:


> Another one:
> 
> *Advisers hail sinicization of religions*
> 
> By Cao Siqi Source:Global Times Published: 2019/3/10
> 
> *Religious integration in socialist society key to harmony, says expert*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC) members from religious circles hold a joint conference on Thursday in Beijing during the two sessions. Photo: Cao Siqi/GT
> 
> *Chinese political advisers from five main religions hailed the country's efforts to promote social stability and vowed to continue adhering to the sinicization of religions and make greater efforts to better integrate religions into the socialist society. *
> 
> In a panel discussion during the second session of the 13th National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC), Wang Yang, chairman of the CPPCC National Committee, said that religious issues have a bearing on social harmony, ethnic solidarity and national security, the Xinhua News Agency reported.
> 
> He spoke of the need to raise awareness of the rule of law to maintain harmony and stability in religious circles, and ensure religions better adapt themselves to socialist society, Xinhua reported.
> 
> At the panel discussion, Zhan Ru, deputy head of the China Buddhist Association and a CPPCC member, said that *Chinese Buddhist culture is a window for the world to understand Chinese culture and Chinese religion.*
> 
> Taking Buddhism as a platform for dialogue, it is important to strengthen the internal harmony of Chinese religions and promote exchanges between Chinese Buddhism and world Buddhism.
> 
> Adiljang Ajikrim, deputy head of the China Islamic Association, said that *2019 is the key to implementing the five-year (2018-22) outline on the sinicization of Islam* and the key to the direction is to construct the Islamic doctrine system with Chinese characteristics and cultivate high-quality talent.
> 
> He suggested that the government continue to unify the compilation and publishing textbooks for China's Islamic institutes and strengthen the interpretation of the doctrines in multiple platforms and channels.
> 
> Yang Faming, head of the China Islamic Association, told the China News Service that *upholding the direction of sinicization of religion should correctly understand the relationship between national laws and religious regulations. *
> 
> Yang said the association has drafted a regulation on Islamic personnel's code of conduct.
> 
> In a joint conference held on Thursday, Dai Junfeng, the head of the Islamic Association in Kunming, Southwest China's Yunnan Province and a CPPCC member, *also vowed to explore more paths for the sinicization of Islam. *
> 
> Dai told the Global Times that during the past year, his association has been implementing the initiative advocated by the China Islamic Association, *which urged nationwide Islamic associations to raise the national flag at mosques, require religious personnel to study the Chinese Constitution, socialist core values and traditional Chinese culture.*
> 
> His association has established a district to demonstrate national unity and progress, and integrate the study of classic doctrines with socialist core values, he said.
> 
> Huang Zhi'an, deputy head of the Taoism Association of China, said that *Taoism is the native religion of China. *
> 
> However, *the religion has been lacking vitality for the years.* "The key to solving this problem is to train a group of top Taoist talent," Huang told the Global Times.
> 
> Shen Bin, deputy head of the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association, also said that Catholicism has been experiencing ups and downs after being introduced to China because *the local churches failed to implement the principle of independence and self-management, and didn't integrate with Chinese culture. *
> 
> The Catholic Church in China needs to *adhere to the leadership of the Communist Party of China, uphold the direction of sinicization* and strengthen the implementation of the Regulation on Religious Affairs, Shen said.
> 
> Zhang Keyun, deputy head of China Christian Council, stressed the need to build a mechanism for religious work in rural areas, strengthen management in accordance with the law and guide the exploration of the sinicization of Christianity.
> 
> Kan Baoping, deputy head of the Three-Self Patriotic Movement Committee of the Protestant Church in China, stressed the need to *unite Christians in China to resist external infiltration and walk on the path of loving the country and the church. *
> 
> In September 2017, leaders from the five religious communities reached a consensus at a forum, "Chinese culture and religious sinicization," in Beijing. They agreed that "the direction of religions is to integrate with Chinese culture."
> 
> In March 2018, the Christian community announced the implementation of a five-year outline, which requires the community to strengthen the theological foundation for the sinicization of Christianity.
> 
> Catholic churches passed a draft version of a five-year outline to promote the sinicization of Catholicism in December 2017.
> 
> http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1141560.shtml



Wrong translation I guess, In Chinese language is 本土化 not 中国化。 sinicization is a very strange word in Chinese language, I don't remember I heard anyone use 中国化(sinicization)
but 本土化 is a common word you always hear, (localization) it doesn't only refer to China, it's a word can be used for all countries.

Global Times needs to hire better translators, they really did a terrible job.

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## Rasengan

Indos said:


> Another one:
> 
> *Chinese political advisers from five main religions hailed the country's efforts to promote social stability and vowed to continue adhering to the sinicization of religions and make greater efforts to better integrate religions into the socialist society. *



Once again you have proven my point. The Chinese Govt has never said they want the sinicization of religion. This was a term used by five different religious groups. What's wrong with making greater effort to integrate religion into society? The whole point of this exercise is to cause less division. In one shape or form, Sino culture has influenced most of the East Asian Countries. Do Uighur people use chopstick to eat food? That is a Sino culture.



Indos said:


> At the panel discussion, Zhan Ru, deputy head of the China Buddhist Association and a CPPCC member, said that *Chinese Buddhist culture is a window for the world to understand Chinese culture and Chinese religion.*



For some odd reason, you have decided to highlight this point. Mr Zhan Ru is a Buddhists, obviously, his going to glorify his religion and belief system. You do know there are different types of Buddhism. Tibetian Buddhism is very different from the Shaolin Temple and this is different to Thai Buddhism.



Indos said:


> Another one:
> 
> 
> 
> Yang Faming, head of the China Islamic Association, told the China News Service that *upholding the direction of sinicization of religion should correctly understand the relationship between national laws and religious regulations. *
> 
> Yang said the association has drafted a regulation on Islamic personnel's code of conduct.
> 
> In a joint conference held on Thursday, Dai Junfeng, the head of the Islamic Association in Kunming, Southwest China's Yunnan Province and a CPPCC member, *also vowed to explore more paths for the sinicization of Islam. *
> 
> Dai told the Global Times that during the past year, his association has been implementing the initiative advocated by the China Islamic Association, *which urged nationwide Islamic associations to raise the national flag at mosques, require religious personnel to study the Chinese Constitution, socialist core values and traditional Chinese culture.*



This wasn't translated correctly as mentioned by @beijingwalker. Even if you take these words at face value there's nothing wrong. Its clearly stating that sinicization should take into consideration the relationship between national laws and religious regulations. There has to be a balance between the two. For example, I don't agree with this policy but Chinese law states that Muslim's under the age of 16 can't fast because of school. This is a balance between the law and religion.

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## beijingwalker

Rasengan said:


> Thank you for pointing this out brother. I am familiar with many of the things you have said. But Pakistani people and foreigners, in general, are ignorant on this issue.


Xinjiang has 13 ethnic groups, and they don't like each other, without a central government, it can be worse than Afghanistan, if let them fight freely, I guess the Hui will get the upper hand and have the last laugh, whenever Uighurs and Huis went to war in history, Hui always won, Hui people were born warriors, they can always manage to organize a better army when fighting others, but they are also infamous for their cruelty, in 1930's Hui warlord 马步芳 led his troops and completely destroyed a whole Chinese red army and he had almost all captured killed, taking no prisoners. That's why when PLA was winning most part of China and large number of Nationalist army general were surrendering, Mao and other top Communist leaders refused to accept surrender of 马步芳's troop, he fled to Taiwan and died there.

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## Brainsucker

Dubious said:


> You call that hostile? Have you seen how Chinese members shamelessly attack here?
> 
> Have you read their off topic posts?
> I just caught beijingwalker dragging in Pakistan AGAIN coz he can't answer about US visit to concentration camp while he himself presented foreigners visit to concentration camp from chinese sources. ..but when we use western sources with interviews he drags in Pakistan saudi or any Muslim country he can think off....
> 
> Why foreign delegates on chinese paper is acceptable but same foreign delegates on Western paper is propaganda?



Do I represent any Chinese Posters? Or Do their actions represent me? You read my post. Do my posts looks hostile to Pakistan, or Islam? Why you generalize their actions with mine, while I don't generalize itachi's posts to any Pakistani one, even to you? I see Itachi call me False Flagger or Boot Licker. And he's quite hostile to China, including their territorial integrity. so what left that I should say in discussion with him, if there is nothing that can help with any positive result in the process? He has already has his mind and belief. He has already has tell us his intention and his view on China; so why should I bother?

How @beijingwalker react to Itachi's post is up to him. I have sympathy to him, because he just wants to defend his country good name. Maybe his way of defending is not appropriate in your eyes. But that is outside my power to stop. He's represent his own, while I represent mine.

If you ask me which paper is propaganda or which is not, then, to me, they're all propaganda. It's up to you on which paper do you want to believe. For @beijingwalker, of course, it is his own national paper. It's his country. and for you, of course it's up to you.

If you think that China is an oppressive and evil regime, then my question is, why you even care to ally with them? There is no point to do so. Because they're evil, communist, and even Islam Oppressor. Why care about shouting the jargon "All Weather Friend", if you hate them? There is no need a bridge to connect two people, isn't it?

My previous posts always said about compromise and trust, and how Pakistan should influence China in friendly manner to build a bridge of trust; and how that trust can help Muslims in China. If this way of thinking is also not accept-able, then I don't know what to say anymore. And if my post is also be considered as China propaganda, then nothing that I can do.

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## Rasengan

Indos said:


> In a joint conference held on Thursday, Dai Junfeng, the head of the Islamic Association in Kunming, Southwest China's Yunnan Province and a CPPCC member, *also vowed to explore more paths for the sinicization of Islam. *



The word @beijingwalker used was localization when translated from Chinese. But this was google translation so even that doesn't define the word correctly. What's wrong in exploring a pathway for Islam to fit in the local region. You do know some of the practices in Pakistan are not seen in the Arab world. For example Qawali. Singing was prominent across India, so the Muslim used that culture to convert millions to Islam.



beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang has 13 ethnic groups, and they don't like each other, without a central government, it can be worse than Afghanistan, if let them fight freely, I guess the Hui will get the upper hand and have the last laugh, whenever Uighurs and Huis went to war in history, Hui always won, Hui people were born warriors, they can always manage to organize a better army when fighting others, but they are also infamous for their cruelty, in 1930's Hui warlord 马步芳 led his troops and completely destroyed a whole Chinese red army and he had almost all captured killed, taking no prisoners. That's why when PLA was winning most part of China and large number of Nationalist army general were surrendering, Mao and other top Communist leaders refused to accept surrender of 马步芳's troop, he fled to Taiwan and died there.



There is a good reason why most Chinese dynasties regarded Xinjiang as the outer region of the Empire. It was always rife with violence.

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## Rasengan

Brainsucker said:


> Do I represent any Chinese Posters? Or Do their actions represent me? You read my post. Do my posts looks hostile to Pakistan, or Islam? Why you generalize their actions with mine, while I don't generalize itachi's posts to any Pakistani one, even to you? I see Itachi call me False Flagger or Boot Licker. And he's quite hostile to China, including their territorial integrity. so what left that I should say in discussion with him, if there is nothing that can help with any positive result in the process? He has already has his mind and belief. He has already has tell us his intention and his view on China; so why should I bother?
> 
> How @beijingwalker react to Itachi's post is up to him. I have sympathy to him, because he just wants to defend his country good name. Maybe his way of defending is not appropriate in your eyes. But that is outside my power to stop. He's represent his own, while I represent mine.
> 
> If you ask me which paper is propaganda or which is not, then, to me, they're all propaganda. It's up to you on which paper do you want to believe. For @beijingwalker, of course, it is his own national paper. It's his country. and for you, of course it's up to you.
> 
> If you think that China is an oppressive and evil regime, then my question is, why you even care to ally with them? There is no point to do so. Because they're evil, communist, and even Islam Oppressor. Why care about shouting the jargon "All Weather Friend", if you hate them? There is no need a bridge to connect two people, isn't it?
> 
> My previous posts always said about compromise and trust, and how Pakistan should influence China in friendly manner to build a bridge of trust; and how that trust can help Muslims in China. If this way of thinking is also not accept-able, then I don't know what to say anymore. And if my post is also be considered as China propaganda, then nothing that I what can I do.



Excellent post. Ignore @Itachi. I value your post on this forum.

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## beijingwalker

白崇禧 *Bai Chongxi* ﺑَﻰْ ﭼْﻮ ثِ‎) Hui China's defence minister in 1940's, War hero against Japan






马步芳 Ma Bufang ما بوفنگ‎) Hui. The most hated Nationalist army General by Mao and his communist army commanders, PLA refused to accept his troops surrender.

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## Rasengan

Wang Zi Ping Kung Fu master

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## beijingwalker

马步芳 Ma Bufang ما بوفنگ‎) Hui. The most hated Nationalist army General by Mao and his communist army commanders, PLA refused to accept his troops surrender.






This guy also held current Dalai Lama for ransom, he was the acually ruler of west China back then, but no force can match communist force in the end.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Rasengan said:


> Pan-Islamic-Pakistan I remember you said previously no Chinese member has the right to question a Pakistani poster on his loyalty to the country, doesn't that apply to us as well? What right does @Itachi have in calling @Brainsucker a Chinese bootlicker and an Indonesian false flagger?



Even if I disagree with him on this topic, he is still my compatriot. Pakistanis disagree with each each other on so much, it doesn’t mean he is a fake Pakistani or fake Muslim because we don’t see eye to eye.

I can still disagree and respect him.

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## Rasengan

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Even if I disagree with him on this topic, he is still my compatriot. Pakistanis disagree with each each other on so much, it doesn’t mean he is a fake Pakistani or fake Muslim because we don’t see eye to eye.
> 
> I can still disagree and respect him.



I don't agree with calling anyone a fake Pakistani even a liberal beghairat. But what right does @Itachi have for calling @Brainsucker a Chinese bootlicker and a fake Indonesian? Is there one rule for Pakistani's and another rule for members from other countries. This makes our community look arrogant. The Mod has taken action, but you can now see why some people get triggered and call him a fake Pakistani even though he is just a deluded one.

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## Itachi

Rasengan said:


> I can write whatever I like



Right, you do, I don't disagree with that. Freedom of Speech, I'm not a dictator after all. On the other hand, how many Uyghurs do you see on PDF? 

Probably will get jailed or killed if they ever come onto PDF and expose all the lies. 



Rasengan said:


> hy do you have a terrible itch if I support the Chinese? You won't change my opinion on the Chinese people.



No itch, just amazement that you support mass murderers. They have, over thousands of years, killed plenty of their people to achieve things.

1) The Great Wall of China......thousands, if not millions died in it's constructions.

2) Civils Wars of China over the last 2-3000 years.

3) Recent rise of Communism and the revolutions following it....millions killed by Mao, before, during and after his reign.

4) Uyghurs killed, tortured and detained by the Chinese govt. for the past 100 years. Must be more than a million by now.

So, on top of all this, _you_ support them over Uyghurs on this issue. I have no problem with the Chinese in general, it's just the Uyghur issue where I differ and many others too. You supporting the Chinese govt. on this issue is akin to the Muslim Ummah supporting India over us in regards to the Kashmir issue.

At the least, it comes as a backstabbing, at the most, it's hypocritical. Get it? 



Rasengan said:


> What right does @Itachi have in calling @Brainsucker a Chinese bootlicker and an Indonesian false flagger?



Cuz he acts like one, I don't. The Indonesian govt., like I have said before and like @Indos has said, already differs on the Uyghur issue with China.....so why does he still support the Chinese govt. over his Muslim brothers & sisters?

Then calling me "hostile"?? Like what!? You think _this _is hostility? 



Dubious said:


> You call that hostile? Have you seen how Chinese members shamelessly attack here?
> 
> Have you read their off topic posts?



Right? No one sees that lol

Every single time...you catch them lying or spreading half-truths and they start going off-topic, attacking the origin/location country of the poster etc etc



Dubious said:


> Why foreign delegates on chinese paper is acceptable but same foreign delegates on Western paper is propaganda?



Right? The Chinese sources only talk about them visiting _one_ such camp and doesn't even talk about their reactions....and all the videos posted here either don't look like Uyghurs (like why would they dance like Indians lol??) or seem very choreographed.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I can still disagree and respect him.



Right, I don't care if we disagree or agree, I respect all that _deserve_ respect.

If you're choosing people with a known history of mass killings (read post #187; or this one) over your Muslims brothers and sisters then sorry to say, you get no respect from me.

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## Itachi

Rasengan said:


> Oh, really, how strange, in your previous post you advocated "You can stop making the Chinese seem like holier than thou." The word stop is essentially telling me to do something else rather than speaking my own mind on the subject. I guess you champion freedom of speech in name rather than in actions The Uighurs have more productive things to do than waste time stroking your ego Oh, you are also a fortune teller, look @beijingwalker the Chinese have successfully sinicized @Itachi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's the point in hiding around the bush, you do feel a terrible itch. Look at your blatant racism bringing in ancient history where all civilizations in one shape or form have committed crimes against innocent people. Do you know what makes me happy and laugh reading your posts. You can't do anything, in the grand scheme of things you are insignificant, so continue to cry for the terrorist Uighurs who demand independence from China. Chinese will come to Pakistan and they will enjoy our hospitality and vice versa while you can sulk in the corner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be frank with you, I don't believe in the Ummah concept under the current geopolitical framework. None of the Muslim leaders are fit enough to lead such a coalition. Money talks and bullshit walks. None of the Arab countries support us with credible action. How do we know this? Look at there trade with India in comparison to Pakistan. Who is supplying oil to the Indians? Arabs. I suggest you play Ummah on Empire Total War But unlike you, I care about the national interests of Pakistan and that is aligned with China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have no right to judge him. He can have his own opinion. You sound like a control freak @Brainsucker can support the Chinese Govt and there's nothing you can do



Damn, you would like a 11 year old lol....not gonna answer all of this since it falls outside the topic we're discussing. If I reply, it would just be me bashing you and vice versa and thus end up us fighting each other rather than discussing the topic at hand. If you want me to reply, you can just quote me in the Pakistani corner. 

But, what I am going to say is that I'm not going back on anything I have said so far. You're either not great at interpreting English or misunderstanding what I wrote.

*I fully stand for freedom of speech. Your Chinese bros don't. You can see that by the bashing I got from this and other threads.*

*The worst Chinese posters of this forum got banned after they shit talked at me. You can see their replies to me in my post history.*

_Also, your Chinese bros don't stand for "Freedom of Speech" either....otherwise we would either have Uyghurs here on PDF or in the international media (more than right now) spreading the truth and exposing the half-truth/lies._

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## Brainsucker

Rasengan said:


> You have no right to judge him. He can have his own opinion. You sound like a control freak @Brainsucker can support the Chinese Govt and there's nothing you can do



Thank you for defending me bro. But you don't have to go too far.  What I want is only to building bridge between Pakistani and Chinese people in general. But I have to admit too that PRC Citizens are quite an alien to international political correctness. That's why they're rude, and racist. They exercise more freedom of speech than we are in this regard. Because their talk is not limited by political correctness that embrace by international people.

@beijingwalker, I think we have to admit it, that many of your comrades are rude and racists. You're not one of them of course. But their action make you looks bad too. I hope Chinese Posters can improve their English, and understand more about international political correctness, or else, your mission to make China looks good will backfire to you. Because, like it or not; you have to respect others before others can respect you. Well, @beijingwalker, you're in tough situation here

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## Rasengan

Itachi said:


> Damn, you would like a 11 year old lol....not gonna answer all of this since it falls outside the topic we're discussing. If I reply, it would just be me bashing you and vice versa and thus end up us fighting each other rather than discussing the topic at hand. If you want me to reply, you can just quote me in the Pakistani corner.



Your first sentence doesn't make sense. Why would I like an 11-year-old? What are you smoking Admit the truth, you have an issue with Han Chinese people? No one mentions ancient history unless they have a certain grudge against a community. So you are a racists 




Itachi said:


> But, what I am going to say is that I'm not going back on anything I have said so far. You're either not great at interpreting English or misunderstanding what I wrote.
> 
> *I fully stand for freedom of speech. Your Chinese bros don't. You can see that by the bashing I got from this and other threads.*
> 
> *The worst Chinese posters of this forum got banned after they shit talked at me. You can see their replies to me in my post history.*
> 
> _Also, your Chinese bros don't stand for "Freedom of Speech" either....otherwise we would either have Uyghurs here on PDF or in the international media (more than right now) spreading the truth and exposing the half-truth/lies._




Do you want me to give you a medal? I don't give a flying hoot that Chinese members were banned for shit talking They are mature enough to handle their own affairs and if they have breached the rules of the forum then they have to face the consequences. You have comprehension issues, go back and read my post carefully. Someone who promotes the idea of free speech wouldn't use the word "stop" and command them to change there opinion. I never said I was in favour of free speech. Personally, it needs to be curtailed in Pakistan. I don't need you to educate me on Chinese culture. I know free speech isn't accepted in China and I have no problem with that. You can't answer my question, because deep down @Itachi you realize Pakistan's relationship with China won't be affected by your opinion.



Brainsucker said:


> Thank you for defending me bro. But you don't have to go too far.  What I want is only to building bridge between Pakistani and Chinese people in general. But I have to admit too that PRC Citizens are quite an alien to international political correctness. That's why they're rude, and racist. They exercise more freedom of speech than we are in this regard. Because their talk is not limited by political correctness that embrace by international people.
> 
> @beijingwalker, I think we have to admit it, that many of your comrades are rude and racists. You're not one of them of course. But their action make you looks bad too. I hope Chinese Posters can improve their English, and understand more about international political correctness, or else, your mission to make China looks good will backfire to you. Because, like it or not; you have to respect others before other can respect you.



He was rude to your brother and if we are going to have double standards in this forum then I'm going to flag it up and question Pakistani's. This is the problem with our country, talk so much nonsense but nothing productive is done. Pakistan has far more bigger issues to deal with and he wants us to police the world antagonising another big neighbour who happens to be our biggest ally. You can only build a bridge if you have some compromise, not dictating others on how to run there country.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Rasengan said:


> I don't agree with calling anyone a fake Pakistani even a liberal beghairat. But what right does @Itachi have for calling @Brainsucker a Chinese bootlicker and a fake Indonesian? Is there one rule for Pakistani's and another rule for members from other countries. This makes our community look arrogant. The Mod has taken action, but you can now see why some people get triggered and call him a fake Pakistani even though he is just a deluded one.



Correct me if I am wrong @Brainsucker that you are a Chinese Non-Muslim person living in Indonesia, so he is being loyal to his people and country @Itachi

Anyway guys, let’s get back to the thread topic and stop personally insulting each other.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> No itch, just amazement that you support mass murderers. They have, over thousands of years, killed plenty of their people to achieve things.
> 
> 1) The Great Wall of China......thousands, if not millions died in it's constructions.
> 
> 2) Civils Wars of China over the last 2-3000 years.
> 
> .


Wow,My.. I first thought you hate current communist government but it turns out you hate everything about China, even her whole history, culture and civilizaition..many often perished building pyrimads of Egypt, Persians, Romans , Alexandra the Great and Genghis Khan killed more people than past Chinese kings and emperors. 

China has one fifth of the world humanity and our culture runs for thousands of years, so bad you can't wipe out our people and the culture you hate so much, there's nothing you can do about it, you must be a very unhppy person unable to do anything for the people and culture you hate so much. I pity you, live your whole life in hate.



Brainsucker said:


> @beijingwalker, I think we have to admit it, that many of your comrades are rude and racists. You're not one of them of course. But their action make you looks bad too. I hope Chinese Posters can improve their English, and understand more about international political correctness, or else, your mission to make China looks good will backfire to you. Because, like it or not; you have to respect others before others can respect you. Well, @beijingwalker, you're in tough situation here


I m here for fun, not with a mission or purpose, I just speak what's in my mind, do you really believe what we say here will change a bit of how our governments work or behave? I usually just post some videos and news about China, don't really care about other countries, unless there are some attacks on China, then I may join in and discuss, defending your country is a natural spontaneious thing to do. 
Most Chinese posters won't attack a country or a poster if they are not being attacked first, can you say a domestic issue of Pakistan, India or any other coutries that Chinese posters always bring up and accuse? No country is perfect, but geneally Chinese tend to avoid confrontation, and most Chinese believe what happens in other countries are non of our business.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang concentration camp barbershop, where people are trained to be hairstylists and get a nice haircut.


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## beijingwalker

*CPC young village cadres in Xinjiang bring dynamics to rural Xinjiang*

Many young college graduates are now voluntarily go to rural regions to work as Chinese communist party's village level administrators, young people with high academic degress bring new ideas , innovation and dynamic vibes to rual regions.

Many of them joined the Chinese communist party when they were in college, there is a chance for them to move up the ladder, president Xi Jingping started his political career as a village cadre himself.

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## Pangu

Your post are going make many China haters blood boil bro. I like.

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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> *There's nothing wrong*. Why should a human being admit to a mistake if he *hasn't committed a crime*? The same analogy can be used on the Chinese Govt. *Why should they admit to a mistake on religious oppression when it doesn't exist. *It's an illusion created by vested interests to weaken China of which some Pakistani's have fallen for without ever visiting the country.


How is it an illusion when you have 2 Chinese members from China, who have admitted it and yet you are still in some form of denial? Just coz they havent called it a crime doesnt mean a crime wasnt committed!



Rasengan said:


> The Chinese don't allow prayers in public places but that is for all religious and ethnic groups. Chinese New Year is an excellent example. They don't allow large groups of people to conduct the dragon dance but they can do it within the indoor area. I don't agree with this policy, it needs to change, but you are advocating this policy is made just for Muslim's.


I am not advocating that but the topic at hand was the Muslim issue coz unlike any other religion on the planet it is the Muslims who pray 5x a day! Now you being a Muslim (I had assumed) would have known that!



Rasengan said:


> *In China, if you want to become a member of the communist's party then you must have no religious affiliation. People are given a choice, whether they accept it is their business*. Do I agree with this policy? No. Does that mean people who work for State Owned Enterprises can't pray? They can, as in most SOEs you have a two-hour break and my colleagues prayed at the Nandouya Mosque. The problem with most Pakistani's on this issue is they are looking at this problem from a distance. Whatever your opinion is on the subject at least visit the country before giving a verdict.


How is that a choice? To be a member you have to have no religious affiliation is a command/ order not a choice!

Your colleagues were not bound to an institution known as concentration camp...And prayed in a Mosque not in the concentration camp where they are FORCED to live and lose their 5x daily prayers! How is that any different than the Jews who were sent to concentration camp and asked not to do anything that the Nazi didnt want?

I have not given any verdict and I have no objections on the country! I have contributed and given many  to Chinese related topics from movies, dramas, OST, festivals, Chinese New Year related stuff, food but this thing is wrong and a wrong shouldnt be blind sided just coz all other things are in place!



Rasengan said:


> You need to read things in context. I have never said the Chinese Govt has never made a mistake, but I don't agree it's based upon religious oppression. When I was referring to issues being an internal matter of China I gave many examples of policies which you ignored. For example the housing problem, University exemptions, and language. *On these issues, the Chinese Govt is accountable to no foreign Govt*.


Why would I debate on issues that are not problematic to a people?! And why would I would I claim Chinese are accountable for these which are not an issue? - Your command of the English language is equal to that of a Chinese...

Obviously people only debate/ highlight/ object to "problems" not everything ...how come you arent reading in context and trying to wiggle to other topics?



beijingwalker said:


> I can tell you that China doesn't fail her people


Who are her people? the >90% Han?



beijingwalker said:


> we Chinese are the ones to judge if our government fails us or not, not foreigners, US accused us of being a failed state for 7 decades , China is not prefect but she is also not a failed state just because you and US say so.


>90% cant judge for another oppressed ones until they themselves are oppressed! 

I didnt call you a failed state..See you jumping topics and bringing in irrelevant thoughts that your brain has accumulated - none of which I have even hinted on!



beijingwalker said:


> As for a stable border, Pakistan has no other borders that are more stable than the ones with China, so you don't have to worry.


I dont think you understand what stability means...We can already predict that this mistake China is making will blow up in our faces in 1 generation worth of time! But you are too narrow minded to think that far! Europe didnt think of it until it happened!



Rasengan said:


> I have outlined quite extensively, how some accusations are simply false like Uighurs are forced to drink alcohol, forced to eat pork, are forbidden to wear religious caps under the age 40, forbidden to pray or keep fast during Ramadan. Repeating an accusation 100 times won't still make it true.


I didnt talk about these issues so clearly you are either avoiding or putting words in my texts just like beijingwalker!

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## Dubious

Brainsucker said:


> But I have to admit too that PRC Citizens are quite an alien to international political correctness. That's why they're rude, and racist.


And we have a winner!!



Brainsucker said:


> They exercise more freedom of speech than we are in this regard. Because their talk is not limited by political correctness that embrace by international people.


Yet when the tables are turned they become extremely abusive, derailing threads and crying foul? I think the word for that is hypocrites!



Brainsucker said:


> Do I represent any Chinese Posters? Or Do their actions represent me? You read my post. Do my posts looks hostile to Pakistan, or Islam? Why you generalize their actions with mine, while I don't generalize itachi's posts to any Pakistani one, even to you?


Itachi has an American view...

What generalization did I give? All I said is you pointed out Chinese DRUNKARDS come to ruin threads! And then deny they do such things...



Brainsucker said:


> I see Itachi call me False Flagger or Boot Licker.


These are proverbs...abusive? yes and I did reprimand him for it!



Brainsucker said:


> And he's quite hostile to China, including their territorial integrity. so what left that I should say in discussion with him, if there is nothing that can help with any positive result in the process? He has already has his mind and belief. He has already has tell us his intention and his view on China; so why should I bother?


To force feed a positive result is not called discussion! Discussion starts only when one accepts there is a mistake! With Chinese members NO ONE can discuss coz they never accept! 

You can only discuss when the other is willing to listen and if the other is a patient of denial syndrome, what sort of discussion do you expect?

And discussions are initiatives...not force feedings! So, if someone isnt agreeing to you, your job is not to hammer them into acceptance but either counter their narrative or leave and put them in ignore list! 

I have avoided the Chinese section since I joined in 2012!! 7 years of silence has resulted in Chinese members exploiting our hospitality!



beijingwalker said:


> I was quoting what US says since he used US official statement as an undisputable source, you can claim I also drag Saudi Arabia in.


Yes you did! And you cant deny it coz that is exactly what you did!



Brainsucker said:


> How @beijingwalker react to Itachi's post is up to him. I have sympathy to him, because he just wants to defend his country good name. Maybe his way of defending is not appropriate in your eyes. But that is outside my power to stop. He's represent his own, while I represent mine.


Yes it is inappropriate to lie or put words in another's writing (something beijingwalker does too often)!

BTW, @Rasengan why are you masking your IP? Defence.pk is neither blocked in UK nor in Pakistan....



Brainsucker said:


> If you think that China is an oppressive and evil regime, then my question is, why you even care to ally with them? There is no point to do so. Because they're evil, communist, and even Islam Oppressor. Why care about shouting the jargon "All Weather Friend", if you hate them? There is no need a bridge to connect two people, isn't it?


1) I never said they are evil - oppressive to a certain group - yes! 

I never generalized so please dont put your words into mine!

As for "all weather friend" - these are politics...Everyone knows that even China knows it! We are its doorway to the West! So it is a 2 way benefits very little to do with accessing any humanity left in either!

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## Hamartia Antidote

Itachi said:


> I'm here just to ask the questions that need to be asked and reveal the truth that should be....not spread half truths and lies.



You should be asking "where are the videos made by our fellow Muslim countries...whether they show good or bad...where are they...why am I watching a BBC video instead of 50 videos made by our media...why are they so silent if nothing is amiss.."


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## beijingwalker

Uighur college student : Speaking Turkic means Turks were our ancestors? That's adopting a gangster for a father.

*维族小伙：说“突厥人是维吾尔族的祖先”，纯粹是认贼作父！
http://www.yanzhitime.com/?id=184









*

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## Goku

waiting for some people to criticize this , good luck @beijingwalker


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## beijingwalker

Goku said:


> waiting for some people to criticize this , good luck @beijingwalker


Actually the Uighur college studnet has a point, Turks invaded and conquered many nations and forced those conquered peoples to adopt Turkic way of living and their language, Turks forced assimilation made many nations forget their own true identities. Many English speaking nations have no relations with English people, they were just conquered peoples who lost their native language and identity.

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## CAN_TR

Uighurs are Turkic not Chinese, Uighur is a Turkic language not a Chinese, so called Xinjiang is Eastern Turkestan not China.

Spare us with your propaganda.

This has nothing to do with the ME and N.Africa yet you shared it in the ME section, why? 
@waz @Dubious

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang grassroots cadres are in panic mode to get every household in Xinjiang connected with clean drinkable running water by the end of this year. That's the government deadline, in the middle of the world second biggest desert, Taklamakan Desert, village cadres work together with villagers and construction works to make sure that they can fulfill the task on time.


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang ensured safe drinking water for the poorest families living in the desert, safe drinking water projects covers every one and no one is left behind, now every family living in the desert has access to running water which is safe for drinking.
Before people living in the desert had to get water from some muddy puddles which always had dead animals in them, people developed many health problems by drinking that putrid water. Now every household is connected to the running water systems which provide safe clean drinking water, people now developed healthy habits of brushing teeth and take daily showers, the health standard in the desert region has been greatly improved.

图尔荪托乎提老人对家乡饮水味道的记忆，印证了新疆农村群众饮水质量的提升过程。据和田市农村供水饮水管理站副主任阿不都卡地尔·阿不都拉介绍，为了让群众告别缺水、喝涝坝水的历史，1995年和田地区农村组织打井提取地下水，但地下水含氟量、硬度、碱度等多项指标均超过饮用水标准，只解决了群众对用水量的需求。2017年起，当地开始实施农村饮水安全巩固提升工程，中央和地方仅在和田市阿克恰勒乡就投资1400多万元，建了自来水厂，采用15道工序处理苦咸水，截至目前，全乡5500多人喝上了放心安全的自来水。

　　这是天山南北越来越多贫困农牧村庄饮水质量安全得到保障的缩影。记者从新疆维吾尔自治区水利厅了解到，2012年-2018年底，新疆农村饮水安全巩固提升工程累计解决了300多万贫困人口的饮水安全问题。今明两年内，新疆还将建设运行120项饮水安全工程，帮助剩余36.1万贫困人口用上放心安全的饮用水，实现不漏一户、不落一人。

http://www.xinhuanet.com/local/2019-05/06/c_1124458334.htm

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## beijingwalker

CAN_TR said:


> Uighurs are Turkic not Chinese, Uighur is a Turkic language not a Chinese, so called Xinjiang is Eastern Turkestan not China.
> 
> Spare us with your propaganda.
> 
> This has nothing to do with the ME and N.Africa yet you shared it in the ME section, why?
> @waz @Dubious


It has something to do with Turkey, but it's ok if the Mod decides to move it into other sections. That's one of the Uighurs opinion, they surely have the right to talk about their own ancestors.

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## letsrock

This style of top driven, target driven, deadline enforcing governance works great in delivering functional infrastructure like water, rail and transport. But could be a problem for more advanced devlopment needs like local aesthetics, senstivity to local heritage etc. I would like to see how China will take care of the. I have seen in baidu streetview several haphazard apartment blocks outside of major cities which were clearly approved to meet some targets or on the basis of some bribes. 
Eventually the local officials in China should have the necessary confidence and sound knowledge and empowerment to deny or approve infrastructure after taking in to everything in to consideration.


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## beijingwalker

letsrock said:


> This style of top driven, target driven, deadline enforcing governance works great in delivering functional infrastructure like water, rail and transport. But could be a problem for more advanced devlopment needs like local aesthetics, senstivity to local heritage etc. I would like to see how China will take care of the. I have seen in baidu streetview several haphazard apartment blocks outside of major cities which were clearly approved to meet some targets or on the basis of some bribes.
> Eventually the local officials in China should have the necessary confidence and sound knowledge and empowerment to deny or approve infrastructure after taking in to everything in to consideration.


Actually comparing with western cities, Chinese cities are well planned with roads, highways, subways, schools and hospitals , in my city Beijing, it has strict height limit for skyscrapers, so basically as the second richest city in China, Beijing has no skyscraper, all Chinese cities now look well organized, clean with modern facilities.


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## HAIDER

Uighurs has all legal rights to keep there identity , but they should be faithful to China.


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## Dubious

CAN_TR said:


> Uighurs are Turkic not Chinese, Uighur is a Turkic language not a Chinese, so called Xinjiang is Eastern Turkestan not China.
> 
> Spare us with your propaganda.
> 
> This has nothing to do with the ME and N.Africa yet you shared it in the ME section, why?
> @waz @Dubious


It is in the China far east section



HAIDER said:


> Uighurs has all legal rights to keep there identity , but they should be faithful to China.


China's dictionary have different translation like brainwashing is translated to localisation to 90% Han style....

How can one be faithful to an identity trying to wipe out theirs?

China needs to reduce the pressure and concentrate in friendly approaches

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## Brainsucker

Dubious said:


> And we have a winner!!
> 
> Yet when the tables are turned they become extremely abusive, derailing threads and crying foul? I think the word for that is hypocrites!
> 
> What generalization did I give? All I said is you pointed out Chinese DRUNKARDS come to ruin threads! And then deny they do such things...
> 
> These are proverbs...abusive? yes and I did reprimand him for it!
> 
> To force feed a positive result is not called discussion! Discussion starts only when one accepts there is a mistake! With Chinese members NO ONE can discuss coz they never accept!
> 
> You can only discuss when the other is willing to listen and if the other is a patient of denial syndrome, what sort of discussion do you expect?
> 
> And discussions are initiatives...not force feedings! So, if someone isnt agreeing to you, your job is not to hammer them into acceptance but either counter their narrative or leave and put them in ignore list!
> 
> I have avoided the Chinese section since I joined in 2012!! 7 years of silence has resulted in Chinese members exploiting our hospitality!
> 
> Yes it is inappropriate to lie or put words in another's writing (something beijingwalker does too often)!
> 
> 1) I never said they are evil - oppressive to a certain group - yes!
> 
> I never generalized so please dont put your words into mine!
> 
> As for "all weather friend" - these are politics...Everyone knows that even China knows it! We are its doorway to the West! So it is a 2 way benefits very little to do with accessing any humanity left in either!



Ok, I understand your point of view, and how to see about me in this discussion. There is no point to debate you in this regard. Basically, you disagree with me, and I disagree with you. So let's agree to disagree; and move on. Continuing this matter will only lead into miss-understanding.

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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> And we have a winner!!
> 
> 
> Yet when the tables are turned they become extremely abusive, derailing threads and crying foul? I think the word for that is hypocrites!
> 
> 
> Itachi has an American view...
> 
> What generalization did I give? All I said is you pointed out Chinese DRUNKARDS come to ruin threads! And then deny they do such things...
> 
> 
> These are proverbs...abusive? yes and I did reprimand him for it!
> 
> 
> To force feed a positive result is not called discussion! Discussion starts only when one accepts there is a mistake! With Chinese members NO ONE can discuss coz they never accept!
> 
> You can only discuss when the other is willing to listen and if the other is a patient of denial syndrome, what sort of discussion do you expect?
> 
> And discussions are initiatives...not force feedings! So, if someone isnt agreeing to you, your job is not to hammer them into acceptance but either counter their narrative or leave and put them in ignore list!
> 
> I have avoided the Chinese section since I joined in 2012!! 7 years of silence has resulted in Chinese members exploiting our hospitality!
> 
> 
> Yes you did! And you cant deny it coz that is exactly what you did!
> 
> 
> Yes it is inappropriate to lie or put words in another's writing (something beijingwalker does too often)!
> 
> BTW, @Rasengan why are you masking your IP? Defence.pk is neither blocked in UK nor in Pakistan....
> 
> 
> 1) I never said they are evil - oppressive to a certain group - yes!
> 
> I never generalized so please dont put your words into mine!
> 
> As for "all weather friend" - these are politics...Everyone knows that even China knows it! We are its doorway to the West! So it is a 2 way benefits very little to do with accessing any humanity left in either!



I haven't bothered to change it. I have said it many times on this forum that I am currently living in the UK. I like the Pakistani flag.

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## Dubious

Brainsucker said:


> Ok, I understand your point of view, and how to see about me in this discussion. There is no point to debate you in this regard. Basically, you disagree with me, and I disagree with you. So let's agree to disagree; and move on.


Sure....There is no harm in disagreeing

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## Brainsucker

Dubious said:


> Sure....There is no harm in disagreeing



Let's back into a forum friends again and forget about this matter. We can discuss about another matter. Like music, that we both can agree into.

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## Dubious

Brainsucker said:


> Let's back into a forum friends again and forget about this matter. We can discuss about another matter. Like music, that we both can agree into.


As you please but that doesn't mean I won't reiterate the same point of view if asked just maybe not with you


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## Brainsucker

Dubious said:


> As you please but that doesn't mean I won't reiterate the same point of view if asked just maybe not with you



You can disagree about music with me? Your taste must be the far opposite to me then. Ok, I like jazz! Then show me Pakistani Jazz!!!


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## Dubious

Brainsucker said:


> You can disagree about music with me? Your taste must be the far opposite to me then.


I meant abt the topic...I don't know your taste in music so I can't comment on it yet

Please take this to another thread of your choice otherwise thread will derail from its title @Brainsucker

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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> How is it an illusion when you have 2 Chinese members from China, who have admitted it and yet you are still in some form of denial? Just coz they havent called it a crime doesnt mean a crime wasnt committed!



You can repeat an accusation a 100 times but it still doesn't make it true if the ground reality is different. There is no religious oppression, its a figment of your imagination as a result of reading a few news articles. But if you want to believe such stories then go ahead. Like I said before, they can't admit to a mistake based upon religious oppression if it doesn't exist. Since you like mentioning Chinese members, why don't we ask @beijingwalker? Does the Chinese Govt oppress Muslim's? 



Dubious said:


> I am not advocating that but the topic at hand was the Muslim issue coz unlike any other religion on the planet it is the Muslims who pray 5x a day! Now you being a Muslim (I had assumed) would have known that!



What does that have to do with the sentence you have highlighted. You don't read things in context. I was explaining how those who join the Communists party can't have any religious affiliation, and that shouldn't be rocket science to understand because the ideology itself is at odds with religion. Thus, people are given a choice, no one is forced to join the party, but if for some reason they wish to join then there is a code of conduct. I don't agree with this policy, it needs to change, however, that depends on China and not the opinion of a foreign Govt. 

As for praying 5x a day, I have explained to you but you have chosen to ignore it. People can pray during the day on their two-hour break, and if their workload is too much then they can read Qaza. The same thing happens in the UK. You won't find a prayer room, in most corporate companies, the only way is to leave the office and find the nearest Mosque, and you can't do that if you have a deadline. You are bringing the conditions of a Muslim state into a non-Muslim state. 




Dubious said:


> How is that a choice? To be a member you have to have no religious affiliation is a command/ order not a choice!



I have already answered this question above. Nobody is forcing you to become a member. If you go to a gentleman's club in the UK, they have a dress code for entry. You are expected to wear a tailored jacket and formal trousers together with a collared shirt and tie. Whoever wears jeans and tracksuit bottoms won't be permitted entry. Therefore, people have a choice, if you wish to join the club then follow the code of conduct. 





Dubious said:


> Your colleagues were not bound to an institution known as concentration camp...And prayed in a Mosque not in the concentration camp where they are FORCED to live and lose their 5x daily prayers! How is that any different than the Jews who were sent to concentration camp and asked not to do anything that the Nazi didnt want?



This is your opinion. I don't accept such a scenario exists. The best way, I could find out the truth is by visiting China and the region itself. The Jews were sent to their deaths in concentration camps or were used as forced labour. Such widespread oppression led to many different uprising against the Nazi's of which the most famous one was the Warsaw Ghetto. Where has there been an uprising in Xinjiang? Even Gaza which is oppressed by the Israeli's saw the intifada. 




Dubious said:


> Why would I debate on issues that are not problematic to a people?! And why would I would I claim Chinese are accountable for these which are not an issue? - Your command of the English language is equal to that of a Chinese...
> 
> Obviously people only debate/ highlight/ object to "problems" not everything ...how come you arent reading in context and trying to wiggle to other topics?
> 
> 
> Who are her people? the >90% Han?



I don't give a damn what you believe my command of the English language is If that makes you feel happy at night then be my guess. I don't put great emphasis on the English culture or its language, this explains why most Pakistani's even in the current era have a slave mentality. Furthermore, it's your assumption of me trying to wiggle out of a topic. I have answered every question imposed in my own way, whether you like the answer or not is of no interests to me. 




Dubious said:


> I didnt talk about these issues so clearly you are either avoiding or putting words in my texts just like beijingwalker!



Again you don't read things into context and you were bold enough to claim my command of the English language was poor Did I refer to you in that paragraph? I was referring to the newspapers who have made some of these accusations. Did the world learn about these problems from @Dubious or western newspapers? It's your figment of imagination that I'm avoiding a topic or putting words in your text.

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## Itachi

Brainsucker said:


> Thank you for defending me bro. But you don't have to go too far.  What I want is only to building bridge between Pakistani and Chinese people in general. But I have to admit too that PRC Citizens are quite an alien to international political correctness. That's why they're rude, and racist. They exercise more freedom of speech than we are in this regard. Because their talk is not limited by political correctness that embrace by international people.
> 
> @beijingwalker, I think we have to admit it, that many of your comrades are rude and racists. You're not one of them of course. But their action make you looks bad too. I hope Chinese Posters can improve their English, and understand more about international political correctness, or else, your mission to make China looks good will backfire to you. Because, like it or not; you have to respect others before others can respect you. Well, @beijingwalker, you're in tough situation here



Thanks, I like your upfront statement. I, by no means, insult others and if I have done it to you, I apologize.

We might disagree on the issue here about Uyghurs but there is something we both agree about that you wrote here.



Rasengan said:


> Your first sentence doesn't make sense. Why would I like an 11-year-old? What are you smoking Admit the truth, you have an issue with Han Chinese people? No one mentions ancient history unless they have a certain grudge against a community. So you are a racists



I'm unable to edit the text now but it's supposed to be "You sound like a 11 year old" obviously it's really easy to put that single word in if you reread the whole sentence. Either way, you _would_ also like a 11 year old cuz he/she will talk right back in your tone.

I didn't mean anything perverted if that's what you're going at.

As for "racism" there is no such thing as that which I wrote. Han Chinese are not a "race", Chinese is a race. And what is defined as "Chinese"...well that's up for debate too. 

So there you go, I am *not* a racist if I see faults in everyone, including myself and even Pakistanis. 



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Correct me if I am wrong @Brainsucker that you are a Chinese Non-Muslim person living in Indonesia, so he is being loyal to his people and country @Itachi
> 
> Anyway guys, let’s get back to the thread topic and stop personally insulting each other.



Well, if he is then one of his flags are wrong...

His country & location flag are both Indonesia...country means where his origins are from. 



beijingwalker said:


> Wow,My.. I first thought you hate current communist government but it turns out you hate everything about China, even her whole history, culture and civilizaition..many often perished building pyrimads of Egypt, Persians, Romans , Alexandra the Great and Genghis Khan killed more people than past Chinese kings and emperors.
> 
> China has one fifth of the world humanity and our culture runs for thousands of years, so bad you can't wipe out our people and the culture you hate so much, there's nothing you can do about it, you must be a very unhppy person unable to do anything for the people and culture you hate so much. I pity you, live your whole life in hate.



@Rasengan I would like to clarify a thing here......I *don't *hate anyone.....not the Chinese, not the Martians, not the Jews or whatever....all I _dislike_ are "policies & way of doing things" of the past & the present governments and people.

I just gave an _example_ of Chinese brutality of disregarding the individual and thinking of the state. Millions of Chinese have died for it and you can't falsify it.

I was giving out examples to expand and justify my points. You guys are painting me for a racist and a hate monger....which I am not. 



Dubious said:


> And we have a winner!!



I call it progress after 14 pages of this thread. 

The liberty is reaching their minds! 



Dubious said:


> Itachi has an American view...



Not even that, I see everything from both sides of the coin.....one side hides the fact that the other side has a ugly past by showing how it has reached economic prosperity in such a short time. 

I'm very much a Pakistani but I am also a American citizen too. It doesn't make me a "American" but a Pakistani-American .



Dubious said:


> BTW, @Rasengan why are you masking your IP? Defence.pk is neither blocked in UK nor in Pakistan....





Something is not right in the cooker if he's hiding his IP. I'm sure he's using a VPN like NordVPN but still....

I mean, I don't hide _my_ IP....you can clearly tell I'm from Alpha Centauri. 



Dubious said:


> 1) I never said they are evil - oppressive to a certain group - yes!



oh boy...not even a "certain" group...they don't even leave their "own" people alone lol...as you have seen in my previous posts...

to sum it up:

1) Civil wars for the past 3000 years

2) Taiwan and Tiananmen square (Taiwan because of the C. Wars)

3) CCP/CPC's policies over the past decades under Mao and others have killed an estimated 20-40 _Million_ more than Hitler, almost the same as Stalin 

4) Stuff under the carpet & closet which I have still to find or/& can't find and is classified/buried too deep I can't find it 



Dubious said:


> As for "all weather friend" - these are politics...Everyone knows that even China knows it! We are its doorway to the West! So it is a 2 way benefits very little to do with accessing any humanity left in either!



Correct, we're the "doorway". But to talk about CPEC, I don't think we're getting paid enough lol.....look at Saudi Arabia and the US....they had a _400B _(might be a 100B more/less) deal.....whereas CPEC is less than 100B lol.....will discuss another time 



Hamartia Antidote said:


> You should be asking "where are the videos made by our fellow Muslim countries...whether they show good or bad...where are they...why am I watching a BBC video instead of 50 videos made by our media...why are they so silent if nothing is amiss.."



Right, we both know the answer sadly.



Rasengan said:


> I haven't bothered to change it. I have said it many times on this forum that I am currently living in the UK. I like the Pakistani flag.



You should change one of your flags then...

Plus, hiding your IP does ring some alarm bells. 

@Dubious pinging you just in case you didn't forget about this.

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## Goku

@Pakhtoon yum @Itachi @Dubious
@damm1t @Nein 
This is secret filming in Xinjiang by Vice and its shit scary

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## vi-va

Rasengan said:


> There has never been a communists state in this world because it's a utopia system which all socialists state endeavour to achieve. Its why people like Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky and Mao used the words "We must continue the revolution."
> 
> China under no circumstances can be defined as a pure socialists state because capitalism exists. Capitalism in some shape or form will always be at odds with workers right. The Chinese were themselves confused hence why they came up with a new name "Socialism with Chinese characteristics."
> 
> They burned all books from religion to Chinese ancient philosophy. One of the things I find fascinating, Chairman Mao didn't stop the cultural revolution but he had an extensive collection of books. Chinese people won't admit this openly, but they regard these events as shameful. But today, in most Chinese formal settings, at least in SOEs, the number one topic is Confucianism even though it's not practised in Govt. Ancient Chinese traditions are emerging across China. Falong Gong was prosecuted because the founder was running a scheme. Naturally, people complained and the Govt had to take action. We don't have to believe the Chinese system and vice versa. We have a common goal, which stems into economics, geo-strategic interests and exchange of ideas. Pakistan will be China's gateway to the Muslim world, just like how Hong Kong is the gateway for western business into mainland China.



Once again I found you have deep insight on China topic. *Confucianism *is emerging, true. Kissinger predicted that many many years ago. Kissinger maybe the man who knew China more than any westerners.

Btw, we don't have any problem with any religions. But Chinese have different view on the *relationship between religions and state*. It's nothing new. In China, *state first* for thousands year, and we are proud of it. If you compare China history with South Asia, Middle East and West, China is unique on this perspective.

In my opinion, communism is a religion as well, so is liberalism or any other ideologies. 

Now the west call us *State Capitalism* and I think the west has a point. Hilarious.

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## Rasengan

viva_zhao said:


> Once again I found you have deep insight on China topic. *Confucianism *is emerging, true. Kissinger predicted that many many years ago. Kissinger maybe the man who knew China more than any westerners.
> 
> Btw, we don't have any problem with any religions. But Chinese have different view on the *relationship between religions and state*. It's nothing new. In China, *state first* for thousands year, and we are proud of it. If you compare China history with South Asia, Middle East and West, China is unique on this perspective.
> 
> In my opinion, communism is a religion as well, so is liberalism or any other ideologies.
> 
> Now the west call us *State Capitalism* and I think the west has a point. Hilarious.



Kissinger is a crafty old bugger but the man knew how geopolitics runs from the back of his hand. I agree no one knew the significant potential of China more than Kissinger, he wanted them to go mainstream and be included in the global community. We have to remember China in some shape of form has controlled more than 60% of the world's GDP from an historical standpoint. I think the only time this was different was during the Mughal era where India was more wealthy.

I agree the Chinese view on religion and state is quite unique and its been ongoing for more than 3000 years. I believe it started from Emperor Qin Shi Huang but I can be wrong. I guess you can call all political ideologies as a different form of religion. America is a prime example, you have people supporting a party for decades without even reading the party policy. I think State Capitalism is the correct word, and personally it works beautiful if you have the right people involved and political framework. If someone with a character like Heshen from the Qing dynasty was involved then you will have a problem.



Itachi said:


> I'm unable to edit the text now but it's supposed to be "You sound like a 11 year old" obviously it's really easy to put that single word in if you reread the whole sentence. Either way, you _would_ also like a 11 year old cuz he/she will talk right back in your tone.



You should control your emotions You might be a fortune teller, but don't presume other people can read your message if you don't write your sentence correctly How can you tell which tone I am speaking? Have you listened to my voice? Of course, I am fond of 11 year olds they are children who bring joy into this bleak world. I guess you don't like 11 years olds...bad history?



Itachi said:


> As for "racism" there is no such thing as that which I wrote. Han Chinese are not a "race", Chinese is a race. And what is defined as "Chinese"...well that's up for debate too.
> 
> So there you go, I am *not* a racist if I see faults in everyone, including myself and even Pakistanis.



You can still be racists towards an ethnic group. There are 56 ethnic groups in China of which 10 are Muslim and the Han being the majority. If you studied Chinese history, then you will know the Han people were not always in power and the decision makers came from different ethnic groups. Liao dynasty, Jin dynasty, Yuan dynasty and Qing dynasty were not Han. I don't mind if people find faults in everyone, but when you bring up ancient history to attack a certain ethnic group then you are a bigot.



Itachi said:


> Something is not right in the cooker if he's hiding his IP. I'm sure he's using a VPN like NordVPN but still....
> 
> I mean, I don't hide _my_ IP....you can clearly tell I'm from Alpha Centauri.



I thought you were a great fortune teller? I guess it was a myth. I'm not hiding my IP address or using any software. I have more important things to do. Like I explained to @Dubious I prefer both my flags to be Pakistani because I love Pakistan, but his the moderator so he can do whatever floats his boat.


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## vi-va

Rasengan said:


> Kissinger is a crafty old bugger but the man knew how geopolitics runs from the back of his hand. I agree no one knew the significant potential of China more than Kissinger, he wanted them to go mainstream and be included in the global community. We have to remember China in some shape of form has controlled more than 60% of the world's GDP from an historical standpoint. I think the only time this was different was during the Mughal era where India was more wealthy.
> 
> I agree the Chinese view on religion and state is quite unique and its been ongoing for more than 3000 years. I believe it started from Emperor Qin Shi Huang but I can be wrong. I guess you can call all political ideologies as a different form of religion. American is a prime example, you have people supporting a party for decades without even reading the party policy. I think State Capitalism is the correct word, and personally it works beautiful if you have the right people involved and political framework. If someone with a character like Heshen from the Qing dynasty was involved then you will have a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> You should control your emotions You might be a fortune teller, but don't presume other people can read your message if you don't write your sentence correctly How can you tell which tone I am speaking? Have you listened to my voice? Of course, I am fond of 11 year olds they are children who bring joy into this bleak world. I guess you don't like 11 years olds...bad history?



The fundamental philosophy of communism is A Critique of Political Economy published in 1885 and 1894, respectively. The capitalism in early stage (18th -19th century) is extremely brutal. The Great Bengal famine of 1770 shows how brutal British East India Company could be, much worse than *fascists*.

Communism definitely has a very good will, a utopia to create a better world, no exploitation, equal human rights, gender equality, pacifism, racial discrimination and so on. Many Socialists such as August Bebel were pioneers on progressive movement. 

Demonizing China and communism is the core of Cold War strategy. Just like Islamophobia, demonizing Islam nowadays serves some political agendas and countries. 

*My Pakistan friends, mutual understanding benefits both sides since we are all victims of Demonization. *

China's political and economical approaches were inspired by Singapore to a certain extent. My views can be found here:

Pakistan industrialization, foreign policy and political system
China foreign policy
Stable gov and huge saving are the key for rapid economy growth

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## beijingwalker

Goku said:


> @Pakhtoon yum @Itachi @Dubious
> @damm1t @Nein
> This is secret filming in Xinjiang by Vice and its shit scary


Vanishing? So if I go to Xinjiang or Ningxia now I will see no Muslims? How come recently foreign Vlogs show there are so many of them?






By the way, what language is the title?

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## Rasengan

beijingwalker said:


> Vanishing? So if I go to Xinjiang or Ningxia now I will see no Muslims? How come recently foreign Vlogs show there are so many of them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, what language is the title?



Wonderful response Oh, my, days, the men are wearing caps, the woman are wearing scarves and the city is full of Muslim's.

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## Brainsucker

beijingwalker said:


> By the way, what language is the title?



The title means "Uyghur live in Kasghar City, Xinjiang 2019." It's Indonesian. But well, his / her Indonesian is rather rigid. More like an Indonesian that come from English Translation. Well, there are people in Indonesia who write like that. Like me, for example. As I read more of English writings than Indonesian one. 

The more flexible write is : Kehidupan suku Uyghur di kota Kashgar, Xinjiang 2019.

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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> You can repeat an accusation a 100 times but it still doesn't make it true if the ground reality is different. There is no religious oppression, its a figment of your imagination as a result of reading a few news articles.


What you have mentioned about you not agreeing with China's laws...is oppression in other countries! You denying it wont make it a myth! 

2 Chinese members here have agreed China does EXACTLY what deems as oppression, so who are you to deny it?

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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> I haven't bothered to change it. I have said it many times on this forum that I am currently living in the UK. I like the Pakistani flag.


Defence.pk is not banned in the UK nor do any members from UK hide their IP!



Rasengan said:


> I thought you were a great fortune teller? I guess it was a myth. I'm not hiding my IP address or using any software. I have more important things to do. Like I explained to @Dubious I prefer both my flags to be Pakistani because I love Pakistan, but his the moderator so he can do whatever floats his boat.


As you wish! We are ok with whatever the member is ok with...However I am not talking about your flags but even your IP has been masked!


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> What you have mentioned about you not agreeing with China's laws...is oppression in other countries! You denying it wont make it a myth!
> 
> 2 Chinese members here have agreed China does EXACTLY what deems as oppression, so who are you to deny it?


Which two? you twisted their words or they did say China oppress minorities? can you call them out to verify your claim? not by what you say about what they say, let them say the word "oppression" for themselves.


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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> As for praying 5x a day, I have explained to you but you have chosen to ignore it. People can pray during the day on their two-hour break, and if their workload is too much then they can read Qaza. The same thing happens in the UK. You won't find a prayer room, in most corporate companies, the only way is to leave the office and find the nearest Mosque, and you can't do that if you have a deadline. You are bringing the conditions of a Muslim state into a non-Muslim state.


Again repeating things not in context isnt getting you any brownie points!

My point is about the concentration camp:

Now in view of the Chinese law where religious practice is not allowed in public buildings and concentration camp is a public building! And people are forced to LIVE in it...meaning they have to stay 24 hrs x whatever number of days, weeks, mths ....and THIS means no prayers for the whole period! They are not working there that they get 2 hr breaks...Their break from "learning skills" is still retiring in the building...where they live! It is not going back home to pray and then come back...So, their break time is spent in the building! Just listen to any of the videos, it will tell you exactly the same! What it doesnt tell you is that Muslims pray 5x a day! So if they are living in the building, their break is spent in the building, they are not allowed to pray nor read Quran while there! That could be weeks to months to years!



beijingwalker said:


> Which two? you twisted their words or they did say China oppress minorities? can you call them out to verify your claim? not by what you say about what they say, let them say the word "oppression" for themselves.



You are 1 of them *who agreed that prayers (or any religious related thing) is not allowed in public building*..You also *agreed concentration camp is a public building.* You also agreed *these people live there*! 

So add that up = these "prisoners" are not allowed to pray for the number of weeks/ months/ years they are to be "trained" in these camps!

The same goes for the forced boarding schools which are again public buildings..

You see we Muslims pray *5x in ONE DAY (it is the base of our religion)* and you not allowing them to do so coz of the rule of no prayers in public buildings...is equal to religious oppression ..in this regard of Islam!

Learn the basics before accusing another!

Learn to read in context! Context is 
XINJIANG
UYGHUR people
ISLAM
CONCENTRATION CAMPS!

I am not talking about whole of China. I am not talking about other cases..I am also not talking about other people who can walk/ go home or to a mosque to pray! But these specific people who* CAN NOT*!

You claimed you have lived in a Muslim community with Muslims and have Muslim friends...How did you manage to ignore their practices? 5x daily prayers is a must for a Muslim...stopping this is oppression to practice religion (Islam in this terms)



beijingwalker said:


> Which two? you twisted their words or they did say China oppress minorities? can you call them out to verify your claim? not by what you say about what they say, let them say the word "oppression" for themselves.


First learn the meaning of "oppression" then learn how a person can be oppressed and what can be termed oppression! I have explained if you still dont understand ask dont accuse!

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> You are 1 of them *who agreed that prayers (or any religious related thing) is not allowed in public building*..You also *agreed concentration camp is a public building.* You also agreed *these people live there*!
> 
> So add that up = these "prisoners" are not allowed to pray for the number of weeks/ months/ years they are to be "trained" in these camps!
> 
> The same goes for the forced boarding schools which are again public buildings..
> 
> You see we Muslims pray *5x in ONE DAY (it is the base of our religion)* and you not allowing them to do so coz of the rule of no prayers in public buildings...is equal to religious oppression ..in this regard of Islam!
> 
> Learn the basics before accusing another!
> 
> Learn to read in context! Context is
> XINJIANG
> UYGHUR people
> ISLAM
> CONCENTRATION CAMPS!
> 
> I am not talking about whole of China. I am not talking about other cases..I am also not talking about other people who can walk/ go home or to a mosque to pray! But these specific people who* CAN NOT*!
> 
> You claimed you have lived in a Muslim community with Muslims and have Muslim friends...How did you manage to ignore their practices? 5x daily prayers is a must for a Muslim...stopping this is oppression to practice religion (Islam in this terms)
> 
> 
> First learn the meaning of "oppression" then learn how a person can be oppressed and what can be termed oppression! I have explained if you still dont understand ask dont accuse!


I never said China oppressed minorities, you don't have to tell me what I said, I know what I said, public schools do not have praying sessions, that's the Chinese law, many countries have similar laws, how can that be oppression? If I were a Buddist or Jewish, do Pakistani schools give me a time in school to pray?


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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> What you have mentioned about you not agreeing with China's laws...is oppression in other countries! You denying it wont make it a myth!
> 
> 2 Chinese members here have agreed China does EXACTLY what deems as oppression, so who are you to deny it?



I don't agree with every Chinese law, but I take into consideration of the local customs and environment. Man-made laws will always be subjective, so what's acceptable in one country will be unacceptable in another place. From my perspective, China is continuously evolving, therefore, some of these practices will have to go. For example, the Chinese consume a large amount of rice wine Maotai, but this custom of drinking after work in State Owned Enterprises is being discouraged due to health reasons. The same rules apply to the membership of the Communists Party. The older generation belonging to the cultural revolution era will be replaced by members who have studied abroad and are more globalized. 

In regards to those two Chinese members. Their word isn't gospel, I have met thousands of Chinese people whose opinion differ, even amongst my best friends. I base my opinion on my own experience and those who I know personally that understand what's happening on the ground.


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> First learn the meaning of "oppression" then learn how a person can be oppressed and what can be termed oppression! I have explained if you still dont understand ask dont accuse!


So you don't even think I know the meaning of oppression, how could you say that I mean oppression? Do we share a mind?

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> I never said China oppressed minorities, you don't have to tell me what I said, I know what I said, public schools do not have praying sessions, that's the Chinese law, many countries have similar laws, how can that be oppression? If I were a Buddist or Jewish, do Pakistani schools give me a time in school to pray?


And again you didnt read my post! Bravo! 

I explained it bit by bit breaking down everything and yet you question this? LOLZ 
Please do get a refund from your English language teacher! Coz there is no use I explain something you wont read nor understand when you have zero interest to learn!

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> And again you didnt read my post! Bravo!
> 
> I explained it bit by bit breaking down everything and yet you question this? LOLZ
> Please do get a refund from your English language teacher! Coz there is no use I explain something you wont read nor understand when you have zero interest to learn!


So if you don't understand my English, how could you say what I meant is oppression, and count me as one of your claimed two Chinese posters, can anything be more funnier than that?

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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> I don't agree with every Chinese law, but I take into consideration of the local customs and environment. Man-made laws will always be subjective, so what's acceptable in one country will be unacceptable in another place.


Oppression of religious practice is against WORLD LAWS! It isnt limited to 1 country or another!



Rasengan said:


> From my perspective, China is continuously evolving, therefore, some of these practices will have to go. For example, the Chinese consume a large amount of rice wine Maotai, but this custom of drinking after work in State Owned Enterprises is being discouraged due to health reasons. The same rules apply to the membership of the Communists Party. The older generation belonging to the cultural revolution era will be replaced by members who have studied abroad and are more globalized.


So you agree somethings have to go...Now when the West says it, why does it burn?



Rasengan said:


> In regards to those two Chinese members. Their word isn't gospel, I have met thousands of Chinese people whose opinion differ, even amongst my best friends. I base my opinion on my own experience and those who I know personally that understand what's happening on the ground.


So have you gone into a concentration camp?
Have you asked them how many times a day they can pray? Oh wait, they cant coz it is a public building so they cant pray even once! Please stick to the topic not to your unrelated experience!



beijingwalker said:


> So you don't even think I know the meaning of oppression, how could you say that I mean oppression? Do we share a mind?


I already explained if you dont wish to read or dont have to understanding capabilities, it is not useful for me to continue quoting you ...considering you understood nothing from my post!

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## beijingwalker

If you don't understand my English, please don't quote me in the future.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> So if you don't understand my English, how could you say what I meant is oppression, and count me as one of your claimed two Chinese posters, can anything be more funnier than that?


Because you clearly dont understand oppression even when it is showing so! 

Not allowing someone to worship when their religion asks 5 times a day worship is oppressing them from practicing their religion...and by large forcing a change in their lifestyle! Islam is considered a deen not just a religion..a lifestyle..You forcefully changing that is oppressing theirs!

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> Because you clearly dont understand oppression even when it is showing so!
> 
> Not allowing someone to worship when their religion asks 5 times a day worship is oppressing them from practicing their religion...and by large forcing a change in their lifestyle! Islam is considered a deen not just a religion..a lifestyle..You forcefully changing that is oppressing theirs!


That's your standard of oppression,not mine, so don't speak for me, I can speak for myself.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> If you don't understand my English, please don't quote me in the future.


I already told you that few posts a go...If you dont understand ask but you still jump to conclusions and accusations! 

And yes you arent worth discussing when you dont even know the basic meanings of things, the background of Islam (the religion being talked about) and refuse to discuss and only rely on accusing coz you understand nothing...cant add 2 and 2 and worse yet you refuse to learn! Such traits cant be discussed with! So all other members are right...Chinese members cant be discussed with!



beijingwalker said:


> That's your standard of oppression,not mine,


No, that is not my definition nor standard! It is the meaning of the word oppression! THIS is why I said your English is terrible!



beijingwalker said:


> That's your standard of oppression,not mine, so don't speak for me, I can speak for myself.


Nobody is speaking for you ...but you on the other hand have shown the world you are incapable of responding to comments, discussing issues let alone UNDERSTANDING an issue!

Sorry, I cant waste all my time on teaching you the meaning of words from the dictionary...that is your job!

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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> Defence.pk is not banned in the UK nor do any members from UK hide their IP!
> 
> 
> As you wish! We are ok with whatever the member is ok with...However I am not talking about your flags but even your IP has been masked!



On my profile it says clearly, I'm from London and I have used no software to masked my IP. I wouldn't even know how to do it.


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> Nobody is speaking for you ...but you on the other hand have shown the world you are incapable of responding to comments, discussing issues let alone UNDERSTANDING an issue!


Thats' your standard of English, not mine, so don't quote me in the future, since we don't speak the same language.

Thank you.

Since I've been using this language to talk with many PDF users for almost a decade without too much trouble, I don't really care losing one poster who speaks a language that we mutually don't understand. I also didn't have much trouble talking with Americans when I lived there, that's enough for me.

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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> On my profile it says clearly, I'm from London and I have used no software to masked my IP. I wouldn't even know how to do it.


ok...but that is what your IP showed...

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Since I've been using this language to talk with many PDF users for almost a decade without too much trouble, I don't really care losing one poster who speaks a language that we mutually don't understand. I also didn't have much trouble talking with Americans when I lived there, that's enough for me.


Then the problem is not your English but your ignorance and refusal to learn or inability to analyze in a language you arent too good at! Coz you seem to have no problems conveying your msg but plenty of problems understanding even a breakdown of the whole issue at hand!

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> Then the problem is not your English but your ignorance and refusal to learn or inability to analyze in a language you arent too good at! Coz you seem to have no problems conveying your msg but plenty of problems understanding even a breakdown of the whole issue at hand!


Ok, whatever you say, my lord.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> Ok, whatever you say, my lord.


So you have not had university education? We learn this as basics of analysis, where you rule out things based on what is available...Since you claim your language is perfect and yet you are incapable of understanding a basic concept that has been repeated numerous times...this kind of leads to your lack of interest in the subject matter (of the other side of the coin)...You seem to have swallowed what the govt told you without thinking what it is doing in context and come to defend the govt blindly without questioning!

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> So you have not had university education? We learn this as basics of analysis, where you rule out things based on what is available...Since you claim your language is perfect and yet you are incapable of understanding a basic concept that has been repeated numerous times...this kind of leads to your lack of interest in the subject matter (of the other side of the coin)...You seem to have swallowed what the govt told you without thinking what it is doing in context and come to defend the govt blindly without questioning!


Ok, whatever you say, my lord.

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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> Again repeating things not in context isnt getting you any brownie points!
> 
> My point is about the concentration camp:
> 
> Now in view of the Chinese law where religious practice is not allowed in public buildings and concentration camp is a public building! And people are forced to LIVE in it...meaning they have to stay 24 hrs x whatever number of days, weeks, mths ....and THIS means no prayers for the whole period! They are not working there that they get 2 hr breaks...Their break from "learning skills" is still retiring in the building...where they live! It is not going back home to pray and then come back...So, their break time is spent in the building! Just listen to any of the videos, it will tell you exactly the same! What it doesnt tell you is that Muslims pray 5x a day! So if they are living in the building, their break is spent in the building, they are not allowed to pray nor read Quran while there! That could be weeks to months to years!



Why would I be interested in gaining brownie points? I have far more important things to do than pleasing the masses. Am I receiving any monetary gain in this exchange? No. I am just giving my opinion. You have a problem in accepting my answer @Dubious. I don't blame you, in trading terms, you are following the herd which relies on newspapers to purchase a stock, while I follow the smart money which is inside information (living previously in China). 

In regards to the concentration camp. How did you come to the conclusion people aren't allowed to pray in these camps? The camp is a public building but its not an office environment. This law came into existence in response to the Govt's demand for greater productivity from its workforce and is held across State Owned Enterprises. These people (Uighur) aren't on the Govt payroll, therefore, such laws can't be imposed upon them.



beijingwalker said:


> So if you don't understand my English, how could you say what I meant is oppression, and count me as one of your claimed two Chinese posters, can anything be more funnier than that?



When he can't answer a question then he attacks your English. He kept mentioning your name stating how you apparently agreed with the notion people can't pray in public buildings. @Dubious I was the one who asked @beijingwalker to comment if this was true and now he has answered. I am going to take a leaf out of your book.
Who are you to deny when a Chinese member has spoken on this issue?


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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> Why would I be interested in gaining brownie points? I have far more important things to do than pleasing the masses. Am I receiving any monetary gain in this exchange? No. I am just giving my opinion. You have a problem in accepting my answer @Dubious. I don't blame you, in trading terms, you are following the herd which relies on newspapers to purchase a stock, while I follow the smart money which is inside information (living previously in China).


Kindly read my post again!



Rasengan said:


> In regards to the concentration camp. How did you come to the conclusion people aren't allowed to pray in these camps?


I already broke it down for you...Being in UK, you should improve your English skills!

2 members from China (not including intentional media and other foreign members) have agreed that:

NO praying in public places or institutes
Concentration camp is a public institute

And when asked are these people allowed to pray...same members said no praying in public institutes...So according to Chinese records (you can find them on PDF) ...the Uyghur people are told to stay in these camps...So, kindly tell me how or where do they pray if their rooms (staying) is in the public building in the concentration camp?



Rasengan said:


> This law came into existence in response to the Govt's demand for greater productivity from its workforce and is held across State Owned Enterprises. These people (Uighur) aren't on the Govt payroll, therefore, such laws can't be imposed upon them.


So you are telling me @beijingwalker was trolling me?



Rasengan said:


> When he can't answer a question then he attacks your English.


Other assumption would be you are not reading my post and replying crap = trolling (check the meaning of the word)

Why wouldnt I question your English when both of you claim to have great English and can communicate effectively in it...and even when I BROKE DOWN the synopsis for you multiple times, instead of asking (if you didnt understand) BOTH of you replied (meaning you understood or assume so) and yet the reply is a repeated question of what I already answered in broken down scenario/ steps!



Rasengan said:


> He kept mentioning your name stating how you apparently agreed with the notion people can't pray in public buildings. @Dubious I was the one who asked @beijingwalker to comment if this was true and now he has answered. I am going to take a leaf out of your book.
> Who are you to deny when a Chinese member has spoken on this issue?


*He didnt deny that you cant pray in public places 
He didnt deny that concentration camps are public places
He also didnt deny that the people forced to live there cant pray coz it is a public building!*

Now, you rejoicing kind of makes ANYONE question your command of the English language!

...So the book from my page favours me...

My post is still there and so are his posts where he did state so!

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## Indos

Dubious said:


> Kindly read my post again!
> 
> 
> I already broke it down for you...Being in UK, you should improve your English skills!
> 
> 2 members from China (not including intentional media and other foreign members) have agreed that:
> 
> NO praying in public places or institutes
> Concentration camp is a public institute
> 
> And when asked are these people allowed to pray...same members said no praying in public institutes...So according to Chinese records (you can find them on PDF) ...the Uyghur people are told to stay in these camps...So, kindly tell me how or where do they pray if their rooms (staying) is in the public building in the concentration camp?
> 
> 
> So you are telling me @beijingwalker was trolling me?
> 
> 
> Other assumption would be you are not reading my post and replying crap = trolling (check the meaning of the word)
> 
> Why wouldnt I question your English when both of you claim to have great English and can communicate effectively in it...and even when I BROKE DOWN the synopsis for you multiple times, instead of asking (if you didnt understand) BOTH of you replied (meaning you understood or assume so) and yet the reply is a repeated question of what I already answered in broken down scenario/ steps!



Not only about praying, the Indonesian delegation is also concern about the food served on the camp.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Rasengan said:


> As for praying 5x a day, I have explained to you but you have chosen to ignore it. People can pray during the day on their two-hour break, and if their workload is too much then they can read Qaza. The same thing happens in the UK. You won't find a prayer room, in most corporate companies, the only way is to leave the office and find the nearest Mosque, and you can't do that if you have a deadline. You are bringing the conditions of a Muslim state into a non-Muslim state.



This is an untenable position.

Muslims are allowed to fight and remove anyone in power who violates their right to follow the obligatory actions of Islam.

It is one of the rare occasions where we can even disobey our parents, if they force us to stop prayers.

Muslim that doesn’t pray knowingly is no longer a Muslim.

Furthermore, Xinjiang is a Muslim majority region, so it should be treated as its own Muslim nation, and the people given free right to practice their religion.

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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> Other assumption would be you are not reading my post and replying crap = trolling (check the meaning of the word)!



If you feel that way, then there's no point me discussing this topic with you. It's a waste of time. @beijingwalker I suggest you do the same. Goodbye @Dubious

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Indos said:


> Not only about praying, the Indonesian delegation is also concern about the food served on the camp.



Appreciate the Indonesians for their help in allowing us to understand what is transpiring there.

Terima Kasih.

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## Dubious

Indos said:


> Not only about praying, the Indonesian delegation is also concern about the food served on the camp.


Yet @Rasengan sees no harm nor oppression if one is forced not to pray 5x a day!
tell that to our @Rasengan

The food would be a far jump considering forbidding to pray (for a religion that asks 5x daily prayers) is not even counted as oppression in China 

and dont forget
@beijingwalker who claimed that the foreign delegation approved of China's concentration camps!



Rasengan said:


> If you feel that way, then there's no point me discussing this topic with you. It's a waste of time. @beijingwalker I suggest you do the same. Goodbye @Dubious


Good to know you have no answer for the truth!



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> This is an untenable position.
> 
> Muslims are allowed to fight and remove anyone in power who violates their right to follow the obligatory actions of Islam.
> 
> It is one of the rare occasions where we can even disobey our parents, if they force us to stop prayers.
> 
> Muslim that doesn’t pray knowingly is no longer a Muslim.
> 
> Furthermore, Xinjiang is a Muslim majority region, so it should be treated as its own Muslim nation, and the people given free right to practice their religion.


I dont think that guy is neither Pakistani nor Muslim ...*he didnt even know the basics of 5x daily prayer and the sin of leaving them - Something even a Pakistani Hindu and Christian knows!!!

He thinks when you can go to the masjid you are praying! He used his other friends used to go...Not "we"

So analyzing his words and style of writing...I have my doubts but I cant care less!

The point is...he doesnt seem to understand that these Uyghur people are living in a public institution and thus are NOT ALLOWED to pray! The 2nd fundamental pillar of Islam! When you dont know the fundamentals and the other refuses to know them...what sort of discussion can you expect?*

@OsmanAli98


> By the way, what language is the title?



It is Bahasa Melayu!

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## Yankee-stani

Interesting the President of Turkey will be in Beijing I think some things will be clear with both Xi and Erdogan anyways it was the Turks who for a couple decades here and there bring the issue in Xinjiang out thats a good sigh I think its good after the G20 summit he will be there this could help the PRC pr in the region I personally dislike Erdogan and his policies but I think many Muslims do trust him a lot than the west like I said the Chinese bot posters here at least don't have control of the CPC like wise other members who are not members of the govt but just bark opinions



Dubious said:


> Yet @Rasengan sees no harm nor oppression if one is forced not to pray 5x a day!
> tell that to our @Rasengan
> 
> The food would be a far jump considering forbidding to pray (for a religion that asks 5x daily prayers) is not even counted as oppression in China
> 
> and dont forget
> @beijingwalker who claimed that the foreign delegation approved of China's concentration camps!
> 
> 
> Good to know you have no answer for the truth!
> 
> 
> I dont think that guy is neither Pakistani nor Muslim ...*he didnt even know the basics of 5x daily prayer and the sin of leaving them - Something even a Pakistani Hindu and Christian knows!!!
> 
> He thinks when you can go to the masjid you are praying! He used his other friends used to go...Not "we"
> 
> So analyzing his words and style of writing...I have my doubts but I cant care less!
> 
> The point is...he doesnt seem to understand that these Uyghur people are living in a public institution and thus are NOT ALLOWED to pray! The 2nd fundamental pillar of Islam! When you dont know the fundamentals and the other refuses to know them...what sort of discussion can you expect?*
> 
> @OsmanAli98
> 
> It is Bahasa Melayu!



How can you tell anyone for Pakistaniness if all members here are anonymous just like other nationalities here



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> This is an untenable position.
> 
> Muslims are allowed to fight and remove anyone in power who violates their right to follow the obligatory actions of Islam.
> 
> It is one of the rare occasions where we can even disobey our parents, if they force us to stop prayers.
> 
> Muslim that doesn’t pray knowingly is no longer a Muslim.
> 
> Furthermore, Xinjiang is a Muslim majority region, so it should be treated as its own Muslim nation, and the people given free right to practice their religion.



PRC lacks good amount of PR needs to improve on that front having diplomats visit from friendly countries is good but not enough needs to do more hence its good that Erdogan is in Beijing for that

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## Indos

Dubious said:


> Good to know you have no answer for the truth!
> 
> 
> I dont think that guy is neither Pakistani nor Muslim ...*he didnt even know the basics of 5x daily prayer and the sin of leaving them - Something even a Pakistani Hindu and Christian knows!!!
> 
> He thinks when you can go to the masjid you are praying! He used his other friends used to go...Not "we"
> 
> So analyzing his words and style of writing...I have my doubts but I cant care less!
> 
> The point is...he doesnt seem to understand that these Uyghur people are living in a public institution and thus are NOT ALLOWED to pray! The 2nd fundamental pillar of Islam! When you dont know the fundamentals and the other refuses to know them...what sort of discussion can you expect?*



The fact that he hide his IP mean he may write in PDF from China.

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## Yankee-stani

Indos said:


> The fact that he hide his IP mean he may write in PDF from China.



I could tell from their tone on writing tbh again I still think he is Pakistani from the way he writes


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## Dubious

OsmanAli98 said:


> How can you tell anyone for Pakistaniness if all members here are anonymous just like other nationalities here


We can check IP



Indos said:


> The fact that he hide his IP mean he may write in PDF from China.


His IP shows UK...but that is his issue!



OsmanAli98 said:


> I could tell from their tone on writing tbh again I still think he is Pakistani from the way he writes


Yes his posts are questionable! Read my posts and read his conclusions....

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## Indos

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Appreciate the Indonesians for their help in allowing us to understand what is transpiring there.
> 
> Terima Kasih.



No problem bro, there is also another fact being found from Chinese official that even university student cannot fast in Xin Jiang

"Zhao said, Xinjiang residents were free to fast during the month of Ramadan, and restrictions were only imposed on those who had official responsibility to ensure their religious practices did not interfere with their public duties.

"Restrictions only apply to members of the Communist Party, who are atheists; government officials, who must carry out their duties; and university students who are required to attend education and heavy learning assignments, "he said.

https://www.voaindonesia.com/a/dipl...san-pada-bulan-puasa-di-xinjiang/4921344.html

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## Yankee-stani

Indos said:


> No problem bro, there is also another fact being found from Chinese official that even university student cannot fast in Xin Jiang
> 
> "Zhao said, Xinjiang residents were free to fast during the month of Ramadan, and restrictions were only imposed on those who had official responsibility to ensure their religious practices did not interfere with their public duties.
> 
> "Restrictions only apply to members of the Communist Party, who are atheists; government officials, who must carry out their duties; and students who are required to attend education and heavy learning assignments, "he said.
> 
> https://www.voaindonesia.com/a/dipl...san-pada-bulan-puasa-di-xinjiang/4921344.html



The VOA is US State Dept funded and BBG funded program for overseas broadcasting and for CPC members regardless of what religion the policy have been applied not on citizens but govt offocials however acoording to some sources I have seen is its not enforced or half assed enforced enforced that type of a thing @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Rasengan


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## Indos

OsmanAli98 said:


> The VOA is US State Dept funded and BBG funded program for overseas broadcasting and for CPC members regardless of what religion the policy have been applied not on citizens but govt offocials however acoording to some sources I have seen is its not enforced or half assed enforced enforced that type of a thing @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Rasengan



This is from Indonesian delegation and Indonesian media:

*After Visiting Xinjiang Muslims, This is the Step of the Indonesian Delegation*

The Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) and Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) and Muhammadiyah visited the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region Province, China, last week. The visit provided a perspective and hope regarding freedom of worship for Uighur Muslims.

"After we visited, heard, watched and interacted with the local community, especially those who participated in vocational activities concluded, among others, the constitution of the Republic of China is very secular, meaning giving freedom to citizens to practice religion or not," said Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Division, Muhyiddin Junaidi when contacted, Tuesday (2/26/2019).

"Second, he separates religion from government issues. So religion is a personal matter, this public business has no business with religion," he continued.


While in China, the Indonesian delegation was given the opportunity to hold a series of meetings with clerical leaders, community leaders, and visits to the Xinjiang Islamic Institute along with several mosques. The delegation also visited the vocational training center in Xinjiang.

"This training center is alleged to be a concentration camp or re-education center," he said.

Junaidi saw the attitude of the Chinese government was inseparable from the trauma of the terror that occurred in the Bamboo Curtain country. The training center contains men and women who are allegedly exposed to radicalism.

"Broadly speaking, it is understood that the Chinese constitution is very easily misinterpreted. So Muslims should not apply their religion well in the public space. So they are not allowed to wear headscarves or prayers in public spaces. If found, put in radical groups. Then put in The vocation camp, not considered nationalist," Junaidi said.

This training center is filled with Uighur Muslims. They were given skills training there. The facts obtained there, the trainees were unable to worship freely in public spaces including the training center.

"If people fast, pray, are considered radical. It is not permissible in the camp. They can only offer prayers, read the Koran if they have returned to their homes. The issue of religion is a personal matter, it should not be shown in the public," he said.

If you violate these rules, the potential to be included in the radical category until it is put into the training center. Junaidi found that freedom of worship for Muslims can be done in a special Muslim educational institution or mosque.

This condition certainly makes a Muslim very limited in worship. He said if this continued, the silencing of religious faiths happen.

"But what happens if this continues? Silencing the faith. Because religion will be uprooted from its roots. Especially in China it is determined that parents cannot force religious children unless it is 18 years old. In Islam it is recommended to teach children from an early age," he said .

Junaidi believes, wisdom is needed to understand this condition. Because, when compared to the constitution in Indonesia, the situation of religious freedom is truly in contrast.

According to him, a persuasive approach is needed so that the Chinese government can provide better worship space for Muslims who are there. In addition, he hopes religious institutions will also be involved in providing 'radical' interpretations.

"We hope that the Chinese government will give Muslims the opportunity to perform ritual worship on the sidelines of their training. Participants are also entitled to Muslim food. Secondly, the CIA (China Islamic Association) is included in the process of issuing fatwas about radicalism, religious viewpoints. ask and hope that the Chinese Government does not generalize Muslims who carry out worship related to radicalism, "Junaidi said.

The same thing was expressed by PBNU Chairperson Robikin Emhas. Robikin hopes that religious organizations and other relevant parties will be involved in setting indicators of 'extremism' and 'radical'. So that there is no person who practices religion well but is categorized as radical.

Robikin who also participated in the delegation said that he was happy because the Chinese government was committed to anti-radicalism and anti-terrorism. He also supports the deradicalisation program being implemented. Even so, he hopes the Chinese government guarantees freedom of worship.

"We sincerely hope that the constitutional guarantee of citizens to embrace religion can carry out their worship according to their respective religions. We understand that the Chinese government separates religion and state. But because the freedom of religion is guaranteed by the constitution, it is hoped that citizens are also given the freedom to worship," Robikin said.

https://news.detik.com/berita/d-4447233/usai-kunjungi-muslim-xinjiang-ini-langkah-delegasi-indonesia

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Indos said:


> "Restrictions only apply to *members* of the Communist Party, who are *atheists*; government officials, who must carry out their duties; and university *students* who are required to attend s and heavy learning assignments, "he said.



So ruling party cannot be Muslims.

For some strange reason, students are forbidden to practice their religion.

These are violations of human rights and religious rights.

Why should they not strive for independence in this case?

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## beijingwalker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Why should they not strive for independence in this case?


Uighur police officers and PLA soldiers are all well armed by the government, every single one of them is loyal to China, the overriding majority of Uighur people are loyal to China, all those past terrorists arrested were reported by local Uighurs to the government first, that's why China can root out terrorism in Xinjiang in such a short span of time.

Terrorists have nowhere to hide in Xinjiang, that's why they have to go to Syria or Afghanistan to fight, but not Xinjiang.

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## Rasengan

Dubious said:


> YI could tell from their tone on writing tbh again I still think he is Pakistani from the way he writes



Of course, I'm a Pakistani. I am a proud Ghakhar. I don't need a certificate from @Dubious or @Indos or any other person on this forum. I have plenty of family members who have given their service to the country and are currently active. I joined this forum in 2013, not once did a moderator ask me where do I come from. My opinion is different from most Pakistani's because I have lived in China, I haven't sat behind a computer reading articles to judge the country. 

In regards to @Dubious he can't handle alternative facts or a difference of a opinion. Notice how he uses personal attacks on @beijingwalker insulting him on his command of the English language. He doesn't read my post properly and is prone to an emotional outburst. Therefore, I refuse to entertain such a person. Him crying on the situation of Xinjiang doesn't change anything.

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## Yankee-stani

Indos said:


> This is from Indonesian delegation and Indonesian media:
> 
> *After Visiting Xinjiang Muslims, This is the Step of the Indonesian Delegation*
> 
> The Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) and Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) and Muhammadiyah visited the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region Province, China, last week. The visit provided a perspective and hope regarding freedom of worship for Uighur Muslims.
> 
> "After we visited, heard, watched and interacted with the local community, especially those who participated in vocational activities concluded, among others, the constitution of the Republic of China is very secular, meaning giving freedom to citizens to practice religion or not," said Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Division, Muhyiddin Junaidi when contacted, Tuesday (2/26/2019).
> 
> "Second, he separates religion from government issues. So religion is a personal matter, this public business has no business with religion," he continued.
> 
> 
> While in China, the Indonesian delegation was given the opportunity to hold a series of meetings with clerical leaders, community leaders, and visits to the Xinjiang Islamic Institute along with several mosques. The delegation also visited the vocational training center in Xinjiang.
> 
> "This training center is alleged to be a concentration camp or re-education center," he said.
> 
> Junaidi saw the attitude of the Chinese government was inseparable from the trauma of the terror that occurred in the Bamboo Curtain country. The training center contains men and women who are allegedly exposed to radicalism.
> 
> "Broadly speaking, it is understood that the Chinese constitution is very easily misinterpreted. So Muslims should not apply their religion well in the public space. So they are not allowed to wear headscarves or prayers in public spaces. If found, put in radical groups. Then put in The vocation camp, not considered nationalist," Junaidi said.
> 
> This training center is filled with Uighur Muslims. They were given skills training there. The facts obtained there, the trainees were unable to worship freely in public spaces including the training center.
> 
> "If people fast, pray, are considered radical. It is not permissible in the camp. They can only offer prayers, read the Koran if they have returned to their homes. The issue of religion is a personal matter, it should not be shown in the public," he said.
> 
> If you violate these rules, the potential to be included in the radical category until it is put into the training center. Junaidi found that freedom of worship for Muslims can be done in a special Muslim educational institution or mosque.
> 
> This condition certainly makes a Muslim very limited in worship. He said if this continued, the silencing of religious faiths happen.
> 
> "But what happens if this continues? Silencing the faith. Because religion will be uprooted from its roots. Especially in China it is determined that parents cannot force religious children unless it is 18 years old. In Islam it is recommended to teach children from an early age," he said .
> 
> Junaidi believes, wisdom is needed to understand this condition. Because, when compared to the constitution in Indonesia, the situation of religious freedom is truly in contrast.
> 
> According to him, a persuasive approach is needed so that the Chinese government can provide better worship space for Muslims who are there. In addition, he hopes religious institutions will also be involved in providing 'radical' interpretations.
> 
> "We hope that the Chinese government will give Muslims the opportunity to perform ritual worship on the sidelines of their training. Participants are also entitled to Muslim food. Secondly, the CIA (China Islamic Association) is included in the process of issuing fatwas about radicalism, religious viewpoints. ask and hope that the Chinese Government does not generalize Muslims who carry out worship related to radicalism, "Junaidi said.
> 
> The same thing was expressed by PBNU Chairperson Robikin Emhas. Robikin hopes that religious organizations and other relevant parties will be involved in setting indicators of 'extremism' and 'radical'. So that there is no person who practices religion well but is categorized as radical.
> 
> Robikin who also participated in the delegation said that he was happy because the Chinese government was committed to anti-radicalism and anti-terrorism. He also supports the deradicalisation program being implemented. Even so, he hopes the Chinese government guarantees freedom of worship.
> 
> "We sincerely hope that the constitutional guarantee of citizens to embrace religion can carry out their worship according to their respective religions. We understand that the Chinese government separates religion and state. But because the freedom of religion is guaranteed by the constitution, it is hoped that citizens are also given the freedom to worship," Robikin said.
> 
> https://news.detik.com/berita/d-4447233/usai-kunjungi-muslim-xinjiang-ini-langkah-delegasi-indonesia



There is two Indonesian orgs out there one has competing narrative one says rights are being violated other says no in fact the Malaysian Interior Minister was in the PRC and some other group saw no issues in the Xinjiang region but Some Malaysian politicians were critical of reports you see the problem is the two competing narratives obviously rival powers and their drums of media influence will try to inflame or break relations I think Muslims should be careful we saw the same thing with Yugoslavia in the 90s,Iraq in 03,Syria on 2011 too many examples of competing narratives worst part instead of helping this causes further instabilty and more harm



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> So ruling party cannot be Muslims.
> 
> For some strange reason, students are forbidden to practice their religion.
> 
> These are violations of human rights and religious rights.
> 
> Why should they not strive for independence in this case?



There was an SCMP article a week back about two Indonesian groups competing for legitimacy again not taking sides here the domestic politics in Indonesia is kinda tight rope their President Jokowi had go through a nasty campaign with rivals slinging him as a non Muslim or of Chinese origin remember back in 1998 there was mass ethnic riots between the Indonesians and Ethnic Chinese during the downfall of The Suharto Govt and post 97 economic crisis Indonesia still going through issues tho I hope tensions will cool down

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## Rasengan

Indos said:


> The fact that he hide his IP mean he may write in PDF from China.



You should mind your own business, you are nobody to question whether I'm a Pakistani.

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## beijingwalker

I don't think any people would try to rebel against a govenment which provides them with prosperity and great opportunities, most people are selfish, that's human nature, their first focus is almost always on their personal and family well being, as long as the Chinese government can provide this, it will be always supoorted by its people.

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## Rasengan

beijingwalker said:


> I don't think any people would try to rebel against a govenment which provides them with prosperity and great opportunities, most people are selfish, that's human nature, their first focus is almost always on their personal and family well being, as long as the Chinese government can provides this, it will be always supoorted by its people.



Most of these people are ignorant, there is no point in trying to debate them, its a waste of time brother. We both know what the ground reality is, so why do you need the approval of someone living outside of China. This is why I said to you before, the boss of both our countries wants a relationship, they don't listen to people on this forum.

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## Yankee-stani

Rasengan said:


> You should mind your own business, you are nobody to question whether I'm a Pakistani.



This is stupid recent phenomenon here to claim someone is not the nationality they are with just cause some Mod or member has a grudge I had a Arab troll here call me a Iranian false flagger recently this is ridiculous the whole fourm intellectuals have left and are mostly on Discord like myself I occasionally post here or reply but sheese so many kids who think they know everything here and overt emotional grow up 99 percent have no connections to the PAF,CPC,Or any Government don't take things seriously sheesh

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## Rasengan

@OsmanAli98 

Ask yourself this very important question. In one shape or form, the Pakistani Army and its intelligence service have been involved in Jihad across the world. We have never remained silent when zulm has occurred against the Muslim's. Therefore, do you think for one second that members of this forum have more knowledge than our military top brass? They would have questioned their Chinese counterpart and not allowed CPEC to take off.

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## Indos

OsmanAli98 said:


> There is two Indonesian orgs out there one has competing narrative one says rights are being violated other says no in fact the Malaysian Interior Minister was in the PRC and some other group saw no issues in the Xinjiang region but Some Malaysian politicians were critical of reports you see the problem is the two competing narratives obviously rival powers and their drums of media influence will try to inflame or break relations I think Muslims should be careful we saw the same thing with Yugoslavia in the 90s,Iraq in 03,Syria on 2011 too many examples of competing narratives worst part instead of helping this causes further instabilty and more harm



If you read carefully, all mentioned organizations which are MUI, Muhammadiyah and PBNU criticized Chinese handling in Xin Jiang. But PBNU is more soft on its opening statement due to its liberal tendency of Islam. But PBNU did criticize freedom to worship in Xin Jiang, radicalism interpretation by Chinese official, and acknowledge that pious Muslim may end up staying in the camp. 

Junaidi himself as the person that is being quoted in the first writing said "we" instead of "I" so what he said is actually a joint statement from MUI (Indonesian Ulama Council), Muhammadiyah, and PBNU. There is no contradictory if you read it carefully.

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## Rasengan

OsmanAli98 said:


> This is stupid recent phenomenon here to claim someone is not the nationality they are with just cause some Mod or member has a grudge I had a Arab troll here call me a Iranian false flagger recently this is ridiculous the whole fourm intellectuals have left and are mostly on Discord like myself I occasionally post here or reply but sheese so many kids who think they know everything here and overt emotional grow up 99 percent have no connections to the PAF,CPC,Or any Government don't take things seriously sheesh



When I originally joined this forum, there were many intellectual people from all nationalities. But they have disappeared. Look at the language used in these debates. The worst is between Iranians and Arabs, now its between Chinese and Pakistani's I only come to this forum to read the news on Pakistan because it's compiled in one place.

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## Yankee-stani

Indos said:


> If you read carefully, all mentioned organizations which are MUI, Muhammadiyah and PBNU criticized Chinese handling in Xin Jiang. But PBNU is more soft on its opening statement due to its liberal tendency of Islam. But PBNU did criticize freedom to worship in Xin Jiang, radicalism interpretation by Chinese official, and acknowledge that pious Muslim may end up staying in the camp.
> 
> Junaidi himself as the person that is being quoted in the first writing said "we" instead of "I" so what he said is actually a joint statement from MUI (Indonesian Ulama Council), Muhammadiyah, and PBNU. There is no contradictory if you read it carefully.



Of course you being being Indonesian your views would differ okay but like you said the two groups disagree on what they see or what was infer which makes it hard for views to be taken seriously I am not taking sides with no one here but folks are coming with different reports from all over and thiss reeks of past failed humanitarian interventions we have seen in two decades where we seen stability in many parts of the Islamic world fray for benefit of various powers and interests



Rasengan said:


> When I originally joined this forum, there were many intellectual people from all nationalities. But they have disappeared. Look at the language used in these debates. The worst is between Iranians and Arabs, now its between Chinese and Pakistani's I only come to this forum to read the news on Pakistan because it's compiled in one place.




Its become a circus it was always a circus when I was a lurker for several yeara but its been progressively getting worse you did have arguements on Xinjiang and harsh rebukes from all types of matters but it was occassionally I feel something is up one thing I am glad its mostly a diaspora fourm so expats have no influence on Pakistani policy be it domestic or foreign affairs

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## Indos

Rasengan said:


> You should mind your own business, you are nobody to question whether I'm a Pakistani.



You should read this if you are a Muslim Pakistani

The believing men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and establish prayer and give charity and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah will have mercy upon them, for Allah is Almighty and Wise.

Surat al-Tawba 9:71

The Muslims are like a single man. If the eye is afflicted, then the whole body is afflicted. If the head is afflicted, then the whole body is afflicted.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2586, Grade: _Sahih_

“A Muslim is a brother of another Muslim, so he should not oppress him, nor should he hand him over to an oppressor. Whoever fulfilled the needs of his brother, Allah will fulfill his needs; whoever brought his (Muslim) brother out of a discomfort, Allah will bring him out of the discomforts of the Day of Resurrection, and whoever screened a Muslim, Allah will screen him on the Day of Resurrection . “

(_Sahih al-Bukhari_, Kitab al-Muzalim)

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> I don't think any people would try to rebel against a govenment which provides them with prosperity and great opportunities, most people are selfish, that's human nature, their first focus is almost always on their personal and family well being, as long as the Chinese government can provide this, it will be always supoorted by its people.



All this is meaningless without freedom of religion.

You don’t understand the Islamic mindset, esp of Turks and Pakistanis, who view Islamic heritage as a source of pride.

Rights to perform the obligatory actions in Islam must be allowed, otherwise Xinjiang will split from China.

It is for your own country’s benefit to moderate your approach to your Islamic population to save your country.

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## Hexciter

Indos said:


> You should read this if you are a Muslim Pakistani



It would be better you write as “You should read this, if you are a real Muslim.”

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Rasengan said:


> @OsmanAli98
> 
> Ask yourself this very important question. In one shape or form, the Pakistani Army and its intelligence service have been involved in Jihad across the world. We have never remained silent when zulm has occurred against the Muslim's. Therefore, do you think for one second that members of this forum have more knowledge than our military top brass? They would have questioned their Chinese counterpart and not allowed CPEC to take off.



When Imran Khan was asked that question in an interview, he simply stated that he didn’t know all the facts to make a judgement.

He neither defended China nor criticized them.

Pakistan is neutral on this subject, but the masses of Muslims all over the world (including Pakistan) have sympathies with Uyghurs.



Indos said:


> You should read this if you are a Muslim Pakistani
> 
> The believing men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and establish prayer and give charity and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah will have mercy upon them, for Allah is Almighty and Wise.
> 
> Surat al-Tawba 9:71
> 
> The Muslims are like a single man. If the eye is afflicted, then the whole body is afflicted. If the head is afflicted, then the whole body is afflicted.
> 
> Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2586, Grade: _Sahih_
> 
> “A Muslim is a brother of another Muslim, so he should not oppress him, nor should he hand him over to an oppressor. Whoever fulfilled the needs of his brother, Allah will fulfill his needs; whoever brought his (Muslim) brother out of a discomfort, Allah will bring him out of the discomforts of the Day of Resurrection, and whoever screened a Muslim, Allah will screen him on the Day of Resurrection . “
> 
> (_Sahih al-Bukhari_, Kitab al-Muzalim)



Pakistanis are conflicted.

We have always been allies and friends of China and also have strong cultural, racial links to Uyghurs, who are related to our Chitrali and Balti people.

Furthermore we have always been the strongest brothers of Turk nations and supported them in every conflict. Many of our ruling dynasties and peers were Turks.

We want China to behave better with Uyghurs, and want peace between them both.

Our focus has and always will be the Western-Israeli-Indian nexus which is always seeking an opportunity to strike at us.

At this juncture, our only ally in the UNSC is China, as Russia is not our friend and all other nations are puppets of the US.

We need China’s help to stay safe on Kashmir and with India’s constant games against us internationally.

As our economy is not in good shape and the only revitalization possible is through CPEC, China is our best chance of recovering our international prestige and status, getting justice for Kashmir, and maintaining our independence.

This is why we choose to be silent.

It is not the bravest choice, neither is it exemplary, but if we duck our heads and work hard (even with US and its slaves’ designs,) we can achieve success and begin fighting back against our enemies.

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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> All this is meaningless without freedom of religion.
> 
> You don’t understand the Islamic mindset, esp of Turks and Pakistanis, who view Islamic heritage as a source of pride.
> 
> Rights to perform the obligatory actions in Islam must be allowed, otherwise Xinjiang will split from China.
> 
> It is for your own country’s benefit to moderate your approach to your Islamic population to save your country.



I have this numerous times lets see the reports let folks check out the region copying and pasting articles from differing sources does not help us nor the understanding of the Uyghurs being that region of Xinjiang was rife with ethnic tensions in the pasts show there is cleavage for various powers to take advantage the good news the CPC is kinda woken to this unlike some members here who dodge or insult folks here again this isn t the first and last thread about Uyghurs and Xinjiang in fact the other day I was looking at threads from 2009,2011 and 2013 they were pretty heated again this a fourm not a representation of any respective govts however I urgee many Muslims here to thread careful and understand the backstory as for China it needs a rethink of PR


Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> All this is meaningless without freedom of religion.
> 
> You don’t understand the Islamic mindset, esp of Turks and Pakistanis, who view Islamic heritage as a source of pride.
> 
> Rights to perform the obligatory actions in Islam must be allowed, otherwise Xinjiang will split from China.
> 
> It is for your own country’s benefit to moderate your approach to your Islamic population to save your country.

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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> Of course, I'm a Pakistani. I am a proud Ghakhar. I don't need a certificate from @Dubious or @Indos or any other person on this forum. I have plenty of family members who have given their service to the country and are currently active. I joined this forum in 2013, not once did a moderator ask me where do I come from. My opinion is different from most Pakistani's because I have lived in China, I haven't sat behind a computer reading articles to judge the country.


No there is opinion, then there is asskissing...you literally have crossed the border when you deny and sang the same song as every Chinese even when SOME OF THEM claimed that praying is not allowed in state institutions!



Rasengan said:


> In regards to @Dubious he can't handle alternative facts or a difference of a opinion.


I can handle alot...Believe me I have banned a lot of members for the Chinese...But we cant ban everyone to please them!



Rasengan said:


> Notice how he uses personal attacks on @beijingwalker insulting him on his command of the English language.


That is not a personal attack but a fact! 

When someone spends the time to break it down for you bit by bit and you still behave like an ignorant person who knows nothing, whatelse can one assume if not a language barrier?

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## Rasengan

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> When Imran Khan was asked that question in an interview, he simply stated that he didn’t know all the facts to make a judgement.
> 
> He neither defended China nor criticized them.
> 
> Pakistan is neutral on this subject, but the masses of Muslims all over the world (including Pakistan) have sympathies with Uyghurs.



I wasn't talking about Imran Khan. I mentioned the military, and if you know any history between China and Pakistan then you would know it was the Pakistani intelligence service that persuaded the Taliban to distance themselves from ETIM back in 1996. Those freedom fighters you mentioned who killed two of there previous leaders? The Pakistani military. Imran Khan should know the facts, he is the Prime Minister of Pakistan and he gets a briefing from the military every day. But if you feel so strongly then do the decent thing and protest outside GHQ and demand them to not take Chinese investment. Case closed. The Chinese can always find an alternative, and their economy is strong enough to even go without CPEC.

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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> When Imran Khan was asked that question in an interview, he simply stated that he didn’t know all the facts to make a judgement.
> 
> He neither defended China nor criticized them.
> 
> Pakistan is neutral on this subject, but the masses of Muslims all over the world (including Pakistan) have sympathies with Uyghurs.
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistanis are conflicted.
> 
> We have always been allies and friends of China and also have strong cultural, racial links to Uyghurs, who are related to our Chitrali and Balti people.
> 
> Furthermore we have always been the strongest brothers of Turk nations and supported them in every conflict. Many of our ruling dynasties and peers were Turks.
> 
> We want China to behave better with Uyghurs, and want peace between them both.
> 
> Our focus has and always will be the Western-Israeli-Indian nexus which is always seeking an opportunity to strike at us.
> 
> At this juncture, our only ally in the UNSC is China, as Russia is not our friend and all other nations are puppets of the US.
> 
> We need China’s help to stay safe on Kashmir and with India’s constant games against us internationally.
> 
> As our economy is not in good shape and the only revitalization possible is through CPEC, China is our best chance of recovering our international prestige and status, getting justice for Kashmir, and maintaining our independence.
> 
> This is why we choose to be silent.
> 
> It is not the bravest choice, neither is it exemplary, but if we duck our heads and work hard (even with US and its slaves’ designs,) we can achieve success and begin fighting back against our enemies.



China and Turkey have been good allies for us for several decades Yes do their values and lifestyles conflict with us yes Turks are proud of their Kemalist Secularism Pakistanis abhor Secularism and are more conservative when it comes to religion on the Chinese well religiously they are diverse and at the same time hampered by being larger country with sphere of its own the Sinophere and bulk of The Population is mainly on the eastern seaboard and media is there Xinjiang is like way remote for folks living out on the coastal areas where the actual people live however I see this more of ethnic dispute than religious Uyghurs dont get along with Han/Hui Muslims who make the bulk of the Islamic population there so thats a problem also things is the CPC needs to uplift citizens on those frontiers to get living standards up so ethnic tensions can be tamed allow better PR strategy cause much of the media and think tanks are based in the US,English whether you like it or not is an International languge China lacks that yes you got CCTV or CGTN but they are no close to media based here

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## Dubious

Rasengan said:


> He doesn't read my post properly and is prone to an emotional outburst. Therefore, I refuse to entertain such a person. Him crying on the situation of Xinjiang doesn't change anything.


Yet you are hear quoting me and trying to malign me...However, the members have clearly seen your and my posts...the posts are on the forum for everyone to read and decide for themselves!

I have wasted plenty of time to teach a Chinese, who refuses to even comprehend the basics of Islam and how his govt is oppressing Islam (on this forum - I wouldnt generalize coz Chinese are smart people in general)



Rasengan said:


> In regards to @Dubious he can't handle alternative facts or a difference of a opinion. Notice how he uses personal attacks on @beijingwalker insulting him on his command of the English language. He doesn't read my post properly and is prone to an emotional outburst. Therefore, I refuse to entertain such a person. Him crying on the situation of Xinjiang doesn't change anything.


Aww so pointing out his inability to understand basics about Islam (I even highlighted to you must be news for you that Muslims pray 5x a day which is not allowed in these concentration camps coz they are public property) which he happens to be talking against shouldn't be coz of his English? Then what? Ignorance or lack of interest to know who is being oppressed? And I have addressed all points only he feels offended of the obvious and reality.

While he can be rude offensive and defensive against other members....I am sorry real life doesn't work that way!

Here is the basic breakdown ans summary:

2 members from China (not including intentional media and other foreign members) have agreed that:

NO praying in public places or institutes
Concentration camp is a public institute

And when asked are these people allowed to pray...same members said no praying in public institutes...So according to Chinese records (you can find them on PDF) ...the Uyghur people are told to stay in these camps...So, kindly tell me how or where do they pray if their rooms (staying) is in the public building in the concentration camp?[

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## Indos

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Pakistanis are conflicted.
> 
> We have always been allies and friends of China and also have strong cultural, racial links to Uyghurs, who are related to our Chitrali and Balti people.
> 
> Furthermore we have always been the strongest brothers of Turk nations and supported them in every conflict. Many of our ruling dynasties and peers were Turks.
> 
> We want China to behave better with Uyghurs, and want peace between them both.
> 
> Our focus has and always will be the Western-Israeli-Indian nexus which is always seeking an opportunity to strike at us.
> 
> At this juncture, our only ally in the UNSC is China, as Russia is not our friend and all other nations are puppets of the US.
> 
> We need China’s help to stay safe on Kashmir and with India’s constant games against us internationally.
> 
> As our economy is not in good shape and the only revitalization possible is through CPEC, China is our best chance of recovering our international prestige and status, getting justice for Kashmir, and maintaining our independence.
> 
> This is why we choose to be silent.
> 
> It is not the bravest choice, neither is it exemplary, but if we duck our heads and work hard (even with US and its slaves’ designs,) we can achieve success and begin fighting back against our enemies.



Indonesian is also not pushing hard on Xin Jiang issue but did questioning it through our foreign minister.

"Previously, the Foreign Ministry said it had summoned Chinese Ambassador to Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday to convey the concerns of Indonesian Muslims about the plight of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang.

“The Foreign Ministry stressed that in accordance with the universal declaration of human rights, religious freedom and belief are human rights and it is the responsibility of all countries to respect it,” ministry spokesperson Arrmanatha Nasir told reporters on the sidelines of the Diplofest event on Wednesday evening."

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...about-alleged-abuse-of-xinjiangs-muslims.html

Yup I know the condition of Pakistan government on this issue. OIC then should be used to voice Muslim concern on Xinjiang issue if individual countries are reluctant to do it alone. But unfortunately OIC make soft comment on Uigur issue recently. This condition really show a weakness of Muslim that is said by our prophet about our condition in the near end time. Voicing concern should not become any issue if we believe we are strong and being backed by Allah himself. It is very laughable that even OIC is soft on China.

This can only happen because Many Muslim nation actually are not really showing its brotherhood. And that lack of brotherhood is because Islamist leader havent rule Muslim countries, except in Turkey and Qatar. The example of our lack of brotherhood are many, not only in Uigyur case but also what is happening in Syria, Libya, and Yaman where Muslim fighting each other. As Muslim, we have an obligation to make peace process there even if we need to do it with force. But no one is ready to sacrifice by deploying large troops there. But I see the condition may change in the future as Muslim tend to be more conservative after the year 2000.

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## Itachi

Rasengan said:


> You can still be racists towards an ethnic group. There are 56 ethnic groups in China of which 10 are Muslim and the Han being the majority. If you studied Chinese history, then you will know the Han people were not always in power and the decision makers came from different ethnic groups. Liao dynasty, Jin dynasty, Yuan dynasty and Qing dynasty were not Han. I don't mind if people find faults in everyone, but when you bring up ancient history to attack a certain ethnic group then you are a bigot.



lol you can't be racist towards an ethnicity, no such this as that. Racism means being prejudiced against a race. I'm not prejudiced....I just told you the facts. 

You can worship China and their civilization as much as you want. Up to you. 



Rasengan said:


> You should control your emotions You might be a fortune teller, but don't presume other people can read your message if you don't write your sentence correctly How can you tell which tone I am speaking? Have you listened to my voice? Of course, I am fond of 11 year olds they are children who bring joy into this bleak world. I guess you don't like 11 years olds...bad history?



What I can and cannot do is up to me, not you. You're not my parents. Again, you're sliding into the territory of personal remarks and insults. I would not go there...

@Dubious ^ Just wanted to let you know that I'm not replying to personal remarks here.



viva_zhao said:


> The fundamental philosophy of communism is A Critique of Political Economy published in 1885 and 1894, respectively. The capitalism in early stage (18th -19th century) is extremely brutal. The Great Bengal famine of 1770 shows how brutal British East India Company could be, much worse than *fascists*.
> 
> Communism definitely has a very good will, a utopia to create a better world, no exploitation, equal human rights, gender equality, pacifism, racial discrimination and so on. Many Socialists such as August Bebel were pioneers on progressive movement.
> 
> Demonizing China and communism is the core of Cold War strategy. Just like Islamophobia, demonizing Islam nowadays serves some political agendas and countries.
> 
> *My Pakistan friends, mutual understanding benefits both sides since we are all victims of Demonization. *
> 
> China's political and economical approaches were inspired by Singapore to a certain extent. My views can be found here:
> 
> Pakistan industrialization, foreign policy and political system
> China foreign policy
> Stable gov and huge saving are the key for rapid economy growth



What you're describing as capitalism was more of a colonialism but I can agree on a mix. All _isms_ have their fault but communist and fundamentalism continue to be the plight of the day.



Dubious said:


> ok...but that is what your IP showed...



Seriously, you should take this with the leadership of this forum. *No one *should hide their IP on this forum unless they're from North Korea or some other censored place, otherwise it should ring some bells...

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## Rasengan

Itachi said:


> l
> 
> 
> What I can and cannot do is up to me, not you. You're not my parents. Again, you're sliding into the territory of personal remarks and insults. I would not go there...
> ..



This is my last response to you, so don't bother replying Goodbye


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## Itachi

Rasengan said:


> This is my last response to you, so don't bother replying Goodbye



Ok dude. I'll see you around.


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## Ahmet Pasha

Singe glorious praises of China no doubt!
Watta load of bull.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

OsmanAli98 said:


> the good news the CPC is kinda woken to this unlike some members here who dodge or insult folks here again this isn t the first and last thread about Uyghurs and Xinjiang in fact the other day I was looking at threads from 2009,2011 and 2013 they were pretty heated again this a fourm not a representation of any respective govts however I urgee many Muslims here to thread careful and understand the backstory as for China it needs a rethink of PR



I hope so for China and for us Muslims, this may be the only way out from Western domination.



Indos said:


> Indonesian is also not pushing hard on Xin Jiang issue but did questioning it through our foreign minister.
> 
> "Previously, the Foreign Ministry said it had summoned Chinese Ambassador to Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday to convey the concerns of Indonesian Muslims about the plight of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang.
> 
> “The Foreign Ministry stressed that in accordance with the universal declaration of human rights, religious freedom and belief are human rights and it is the responsibility of all countries to respect it,” ministry spokesperson Arrmanatha Nasir told reporters on the sidelines of the Diplofest event on Wednesday evening."
> 
> https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...about-alleged-abuse-of-xinjiangs-muslims.html
> 
> Yup I know the condition of Pakistan government on this issue. OIC then should be used to voice Muslim concern on Xinjiang issue if individual countries are reluctant to do it alone. But unfortunately OIC make soft comment on Uigur issue recently. This condition really show a weakness of Muslim that is said by our prophet about our condition in the near end time. Voicing concern should not become any issue if we believe we are strong and being backed by Allah himself. It is very laughable that even OIC is soft on China.
> 
> This can only happen because Many Muslim nation actually are not really showing its brotherhood. And that lack of brotherhood is because Islamist leader havent rule Muslim countries, except in Turkey and Qatar. The example of our lack of brotherhood are many, not only in Uigyur case but also what is happening in Syria, Libya, and Yaman where Muslim fighting each other. As Muslim, we have an obligation to make peace process there even if we need to do it with force. But no one is ready to sacrifice by deploying large troops there. But I see the condition may change in the future as Muslim tend to be more conservative after the year 2000.



Pakistan cannot do anything by itself. We tried to stop WOT and invasion of Afghanistan, standing completely alone, and even now we are being maligned and suffering attacks for our principled stance.

Time, however, proved that we were right and now NATO is forced to accept our initial call for negotiations as the only way to settle issues.

Nations like Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, Iran, Qatar, KSA, UAE, together with Pakistan, can come together to jointly lead a fact-finding mission in Xinjiang, so that no single nation will suffer the consequences if it is found that China is violating human rights of Uyghurs.

Our economic, geopolitical, and internal situation is not such at the moment that we can deal with any issues or stressors outside of our immediate territory.

Once CPEC is built and functioning, our own oil is tapped, and Gwadar is 100% ready, you can expect Pakistan to be much more bold and confident to push its Islamic vision for the world in the region.

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## Itachi

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Singe glorious praises of China no doubt!
> Watta load of bull.



What's your take on the matter?






@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Dubious @OsmanAli98 @Indos @Rasengan @Brainsucker 

A must watch and very eye revealing....did you know that international media is banned in Xinjiang or at least not allowed to do much??

If everything is ok in Xinjiang then why the lack of publicity??

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## Itachi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Nations like Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, Iran, Qatar, KSA, UAE, together with Pakistan, can come together to jointly lead a fact-finding mission in Xinjiang, so that no single nation will suffer the consequences if it is found that China is violating human rights of Uyghurs.



This seems like a workable solution. Only if any of the listed nations had spines, maybe other than Turkey and Indonesia...

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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I hope so for China and for us Muslims, this may be the only way out from Western domination.
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan cannot do anything by itself. We tried to stop WOT and invasion of Afghanistan, standing completely alone, and even now we are being maligned and suffering attacks for our principled stance.
> 
> Time, however, proved that we were right and now NATO is forced to accept our initial call for negotiations as the only way to settle issues.
> 
> Nations like Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, Iran, Qatar, KSA, UAE, together with Pakistan, can come together to jointly lead a fact-finding mission in Xinjiang, so that no single nation will suffer the consequences if it is found that China is violating human rights of Uyghurs.
> 
> Our economic, geopolitical, and internal situation is not such at the moment that we can deal with any issues or stressors outside of our immediate territory.
> 
> Once CPEC is built and functioning, our own oil is tapped, and Gwadar is 100% ready, you can expect Pakistan to be much more bold and confident to push its Islamic vision for the world in the region.



The Fourm is a circle jerk for wannabe politicians from all types of nationalities people insult folks here herald propaganda against each other again its a opinon fourm not news org or government department our policy makers are doing the right thing 2nd China cant afford to lose allies in its periphery it needs allies for the BRI I am confident in the visit by the Turkish President things can settle down for a bit its whats needed now

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Rasengan said:


> I think the only time this was different was during the *Mughal* era where *India* was more wealthy.



I doubt a Pakistani would say this.



Rasengan said:


> Like I explained to @Dubious I prefer both my flags to be Pakistani because I love Pakistan, but his the moderator so he can do whatever floats his boat.



Please properly adjust your flags, friend.

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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I doubt a Pakistani would say this.
> 
> 
> 
> Please properly adjust your flags, friend.



Cmon I expected a better response I thought you were better than that how can you tell he is not Pakistani when Indus was here we had differing views all of us don't really know who we actually are if I have not met you irl or voice chat how can I tell you are not a bot same with me lol

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Itachi said:


> This seems like a workable solution. Only if any of the listed nations had spines, maybe other than Turkey and Indonesia...



It is the only solution to the problem.

Chinese government seems sensible and reasonable, unlike wicked evil malicious nations like Israel, Burma, India, and Sri Lanka who are oppressing and massacring Muslims with prideful arrogance.

China should organize it themselves, and maybe even offer to have permanent observers from Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia, and Malaysia in Xinjiang and working with CPC officials to learn from each other and be on the same page.



OsmanAli98 said:


> The Fourm is a circle jerk for wannabe politicians from all types of nationalities people insult folks here herald propaganda against each other again its a opinon fourm not news org or government department our policy makers are doing the right thing 2nd China cant afford to lose allies in its periphery it needs allies for the BRI I am confident in the visit by the Turkish President things can settle down for a bit its whats needed now



I hope so, Xi Jinping is a statesman and a master of geopolitics. I have confidence that ties between China and the Muslim world will be fixed again.

It is the only way to keep saboteurs from US, Israel, and India away from China’s relationships with Muslim nations.

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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> It is the only solution to the problem.
> 
> Chinese government seems sensible and reasonable, unlike wicked evil malicious nations like Israel, Burma, India, and Sri Lanka who are oppressing and massacring Muslims with prideful arrogance.
> 
> China should organize it themselves, and maybe even offer to have permanent observers from Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia, and Malaysia in Xinjiang and working with CPC officials to learn from each other and be on the same page.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope so, Xi Jinping is a statesman and a master of geopolitics. I have confidence that ties between China and the Muslim world will be fixed again.
> 
> It is the only way to keep saboteurs from US, Israel, and India away from China’s relationships with Muslim nations.



All those Countries did send in dipomats and the ullema this year and in 2014,2010,2009 heck even prior like I said the tensions in those region is not new you are dealing with a complex ethnic relations problem that borders several key states for trade and access PRC leaders still have not learn the art of persuasion check book diplomacy is good infrastructure and investments are all good but they need better persuasion

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## beijingwalker

China is being nice to invite foregin media and diplomats to Xinjiang to have tour around those facilities, but don't take it for granted, China doesn't really need anyone to approve what she has to do in her own country. No Muslim governments barring from Turkey raised any issues with China and now even Turkey is reaching oliver branch to China and expresssed clear intention to improve ties with China.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> What's your take on the matter?


Vanishing? So if I go to Xinjiang or Ningxia now I will see no Muslims? How come recently foreign Vlogs show there are so many of them?


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## beijingwalker

Kashgar old town

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## JSCh

*Young Uygur designer shows a passion for ethnic fashion*
China Daily | Updated: 2019-07-02 09:26 






Mewlan Turaq, owner of a boutique in Kashgar, Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region, attends to a customer as he discusses the clothing and tailoring of ethnic costumes with his mother, Aygul Khasim. [Photo/Xinhua]

A 26-year-old from the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region creates new looks based on traditional clothing styles

Editor's note: This is the sixth in a series of stories focusing on the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region, looking at developments in the economy, the cultural and business sectors, and poverty alleviation measures.

Fashions change, but the eye for beauty never does. Mewlan Turaq has never seen Project Runway, a reality television series from the United States that focuses on fashion design, but the 26-year-old designer is weaving his own project to preserve traditional Uygur costumes.

At his boutique in the Old Town of Kashgar, Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region, in China's far northwest, Mewlan sketches a dress in the sunlight flooding in through a blue window. When a customer walks in, he immediately puts down his pencil and recommends they try on the various floral headwear, dresses and boots hanging on the walls.

Mewlan's store sells and rents both traditional costumes and modern, modified pieces that feature his unique designs. He knows the ins and outs of the fabric and patterns of each piece like the back of his hand.

Since childhood, Mewlan has been obsessed with the traditional ethnic cultures of Xinjiang, which is home to a large number of ethnic groups. He developed his love of making ethnic costumes thanks to his mother Aygul Khasim, a tailor who can make both traditional and modern clothing.

With her help, Mewlan has recreated various costumes that have long enjoyed popularity in Xinjiang. Videos showcasing the costumes have even gone viral on Chinese social media, and that success has given life to his long-held dream - to become a fashion designer.



Mewlan creates a pattern based on a traditional design.

*Evolution*

Mewlan has loved designing things since he was a child. But, when his father got sick, he decided to study medicine at college. In 2016, then still a college student, Mewlan joined "I'm from Xinjiang", a project by renowned Uygur photographer Kurbanjan Samat aimed at recording and promoting Xinjiang's various cultures.

Inspired by the popular 100 Years of Beauty video series by the US storytelling company Cut.com, which highlights changes in fashion trends in a country or region over time, Mewlan and his team released their own video in 2017 to look back on trends in Uygur women's fashion over the past century.

In the two-minute video, Mewlan illustrated the evolution of Uygur fashion in his hometown from the 1910s to the 2010s.

"We can see that time has left different marks on our clothes, and different cultures have blended," Mewlan said. From his perspective, the cultures of East and West have met and melded in Kashgar, an important trading post on the ancient Silk Road, and that has shown in the evolution of local fashion.

Without any professional training in fashion design or dressmaking, Mewlan asked his mother for help. To reproduce all the costumes, Mewlan and Aygul collected a wealth of historical documents and old photos, and visited many old tailors to gain inspiration.

They spent a whole week making their first costume. The cash-strapped designers had to produce a prototype using cheap fabrics before making the real piece. For a while, Mewlan took a part-time job in a restaurant simply so he could use the printer there to print out all the file photos he found online for free.

In order to find the best jewelry to go with the costumes, he visited jewelry makers shop by shop to spark his imagination. A friend in France saw one of his social media posts asking for information about old Xinjiang jewelry, and later contacted him to say they remembered seeing a pair of old earrings in a pawnshop in Paris.

"A pair of silver earrings like that usually cost 1,000 to 2,000 yuan ($146 to $292), but the pawnbroker insisted on selling them to me at a price of 4,000 yuan, not a penny less," Mewlan said. He had to spend a large part of his savings to get hold of the earrings.

The mother and son spent five months sewing dozens of costumes, which are gracefully showcased by Uygur model Mireay Memet in the video.

In another video, Mewlan recreates different century-old costumes that were popular in Xinjiang's cities and prefectures.

"I hope I can show the world the real beauty of traditional costumes," he said. "The pursuit of beauty is a natural and sincere desire of people in all countries and all ethnic groups. The world is changing. China is developing, and so is Xinjiang. A changing society is reflected in local fashion trends."


The designer assists with a photo shoot for a customer from the Ili Kazakh autonomous prefecture in Xinjiang. [Photo/Xinhua]

*Potential*

The videos ignited Mewlan's passion for fashion, pushing him to become a designer after graduation. Hoping he would still become a doctor, his parents strongly opposed his decision. Aygul even refused to help him make more costumes.

But Mewlan carried on, anyway. Having noticed the business potential behind the growing number of tourists to Kashgar, he opened his boutique in October. He rents out all the costumes he and his mother made, along with the jewelry they restored, to tourists who want to experience the old city as locals. He also sells handmade floral caps and purses.

"I hope tourists will not only buy Kashgar souvenirs, but also experience the fashion and cultures of Kashgar. In this old town they can travel in time," he said.

After his grandfather visited the boutique and saw how business was booming, he helped convince Mewlan's parents that this career path was the right one.

"Now, they are all supportive of me," the young store owner said. "One of my biggest successes is bringing new breakthroughs to my mother's tailoring career."

Aygul now works full-time for her son, as the ambitious designer has taken an increasing number of orders on e-commerce platforms such as Taobao. Mewlan has also hired five poverty-stricken families in rural Kashgar to produce handmade accessories, a move that supports the government's nationwide poverty reduction drive.

Without proper training, Mewlan said his inspiration comes from the city itself. When he wanders down winding alleys, the shape of a window, the patterns of a carpet or the wooden carving of an ornament can be his muse.

"The more I get to know about the history of the city, the beautiful stories in it, the more I come to love it," he said.

He spends most of his spare time visiting old tailors and craftsmen, and shopping at flea markets. When researching, he sticks to old books and photos, from which he has drawn the conclusion that clothes can record history and are a language through which different cultures can communicate.

"I care about the cultures, the history and the aesthetic values behind the costumes. More importantly, I would like to see how cultures blend together and what cultures these blended elements come from," he said.

Recently, he's been working on modern designs with traditional features to "promote beautiful Xinjiang cultures to more young people in a way they will like", he said, noting that mixing modern and traditional is a good way of passing on cultural heritage.

Mewlan plans to pursue fashion design studies in the future.

"I hope I can come up with more special designs for more people who would like to know about the charms of Xinjiang," he said.

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## Dubious

Itachi said:


> Seriously, you should take this with the leadership of this forum. *No one *should hide their IP on this forum unless they're from North Korea or some other censored place, otherwise it should ring some bells...



Many do actually for different reasons...Chinese members do coz pdf is banned in China VPN and things mask their IP



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I doubt a Pakistani would say this.


There is alot of things he has said that a Pakistani wouldn't. ..

My only concern is how is he ok with not being allowed to pray 5x a day and giving the example of non camp people was totally misleading considering I am only talking about one people one situation (not the genteral Mu slims im Chona but those forced in the conew traction camp)...

Khair I don't care what he....woh janay uska RUB janay

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## Rasengan

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I doubt a Pakistani would say this.
> 
> 
> 
> Please properly adjust your flags, friend.



What did I say wrong? Go and check the historical data. China as a country controlled 60% of the world's GDP, this was only toppled when the Mughal controlled much of the Indian subcontinent. Regardless, you have proven what a hypocrite you are, and someone's class always show's when they preach on a principle and do the exact opposite. I don't need to change my flag Mr. hypocrite since the moderator agreed he had no problem with me keeping it. What a shame, I thought you were at least a decent Pakistani. Don't bother quoting me in the future.


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## Rasengan

OsmanAli98 said:


> Cmon I expected a better response I thought you were better than that how can you tell he is n9t Pakistani when Indus was here we had differing views all of us don't really know who we actually are if I have not met you irl or voice chat how can I tell you are not a bot same with me lol



I have never questioned someone on their Pakistani nationality. People like @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan joined this forum in 2018. Look at my history, and find out why I joined this forum in 2013. CPEC was officially introduced in 2015. But three years before that I was trying my best to bring in Chinese investors to both KPK province and at the Federal level. Naturally, you can imagine the bureaucracy and corruption made it fail.

I will give you an example of one project. I wanted Rawalpindi to sign a sister city deal with Kunming. My Chinese friend knew the mayor quite well, and the whole purpose of the project was bringing in the local Kunming boys to invest in the city and trade goods and services between them. Why was such an idea good? While I was working in China I asked the most fundamental question. How did China revive itself economically? One such example was in Dalian. The Japanese are the biggest investors in the city since the open door policy, most of the population speak Japanese even though they are Chinese. Why was this successful? Because they signed a sister city agreement to start the foundation bringing that much-needed investment into cities like Dalian. But those cockroaches within the Govt wanted bribes and I wasn't going to entertain them. Now, I can't be bothered to do anything, except trade the financial markets with my own funds and I have been doing it successfully for years.

In regards to why I know so much about Chinese history, culture and politics were because it was a necessity in order to bridge a relationship with Chinese businesses. You have read yourself, how many Chinese members have complimented me on understanding their system. You can't get that from reading a book, you can only achieve it through experience and who you know.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Rasengan said:


> What did I say wrong? Go and check the historical data. China as a country controlled 60% of the world's GDP, this was only toppled when the Mughal controlled much of the Indian subcontinent. Regardless, you have proven what a hypocrite you are, and someone's class always show's when they preach on a principle and do the exact opposite. I don't need to change my flag Mr. hypocrite since the moderator agreed he had no problem with me keeping it. What a shame, I thought you were at least a decent Pakistani. Don't bother quoting me in the future.



Feel free to not talk to me. I don’t really care. Your takfir also doesn’t bother me.

No sleep lost. Assalam alaikum.

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## Indos

beijingwalker said:


> Vanishing? So if I go to Xinjiang or Ningxia now I will see no Muslims? How come recently foreign Vlogs show there are so many of them?



The Vloger might be a Chinese propaganda as all of the video contain Chinese material. We dont know who is the vloger him/herself, he/she doesnt show his/her face. The video not conforming anything as it could show old video with 2019 title. But of course I still believe that many Uigyur are still on Xin Jiang street.

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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Feel free to not talk to me. I don’t really care. Your takfir also doesn’t bother me.
> 
> No sleep lost. Assalam alaikum.


Cmon dont overt emotional here guys its a thread here differing opinions is fine but dont get mad if you disagree again not saying who is right here


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## beijingwalker

Indos said:


> The Vloger might be a Chinese propaganda as all of the video contain Chinese material. We dont know who is the vloger him/herself, he/she doesnt show his/her face. The video not conforming anything as it could show old video with 2019 title. But of course I still believe that many Uigyur are still on Xin Jiang street.


How come a video with no comment can be a propaganda job, besides the title is neither English nor Chinese.

Kashgar - crossing the street - Gurewitz . Does this guy look like a Chinese progandist?

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

OsmanAli98 said:


> Cmon dont overt emotional here guys its a thread here differing opinions is fine but dont get mad if you disagree again not saying who is right here



Making takfir is not emotional?

Dude’s crazy. Let’s leave it there.

Stop beating a dead horse.


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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Making takfir is not emotional?
> 
> Dude’s crazy. Let’s leave it there.
> 
> Stop beating a dead horse.



I am not a beating a dead horse I just hate it when Pakistanis fight each other over differing views no wonder we are so divided I never see this with Indians online and in real life Pakistanis prefer to fight with each other enough


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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Vanishing? So if I go to Xinjiang or Ningxia now I will see no Muslims? How come recently foreign Vlogs show there are so many of them?



You need to watch the whole video before questioning it. You're just judging it by it's title.

Never judge a book (in this case a YT video) by it's cover (title).



Rasengan said:


> China as a country controlled 60% of the world's GDP, this was only toppled when the Mughal controlled much of the Indian subcontinent.



Where are you pulling these figures from lol? The Chinese govt. database? 

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Dubious @Indos damn....*60% of the world's GDP at one time in history*, biggest bullcrap ever heard lol....

This dude forgets that while Han China was alive, so was the Roman Empire. While China was just getting started by Chinese settling around the Yellow & Yangtze river, we had the Egyptians, the Mesopotamians and our own Indus river people and the Native American civilizations (North & South)...

*How* can a single ethnicity or nation control *60% *of the of the _whole_ worlds GDP?? 

If he had said Prophet Sulaiman R.A. then that would have been believable...

^discussion for another time, at least the last sentence.



Indos said:


> The Vloger might be a Chinese propaganda as all of the video contain Chinese material. We dont know who is the vloger him/herself, he/she doesnt show his/her face. The video not conforming anything as it could show old video with 2019 title. But of course I still believe that many Uigyur are still on Xin Jiang street.



Right, the title is just a eye catcher for the average joe....it doesn't _literally_ mean they're vanishing. Just that their rights, influence and importance is.



beijingwalker said:


> How come a video with no comment can be a propaganda job, besides the title is neither English nor Chinese.



That's the thing lol....more than half your videos are from unknown sources. All small YT accounts. Whose to say they're not fake accounts??

Real popular YT accounts have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of subscribers and they have a lot of comments on them because people can _agree or disagre_e with the content of the video. 

Citing videos from unknown sources that can just take a camera in their hand and go out in the streets doesn't help your case. 

Neither does your understanding of free media. 



OsmanAli98 said:


> Cmon dont overt emotional here guys its a thread here differing opinions is fine but dont get mad if you disagree again not saying who is right here



Bro, that guys ok with Muslims being trodden upon. Would you agree with a Muslim that's ok with the brutalization of Kashmiris, Palestinians, Rohingyas, Bosnians and countless other Muslims around the world??

He's literally worshipping China! He's been given countless points of evidence from 3 different members other than me about the Chinese policies against Uyghurs...

Seems like you have already picked a side. 

I was watching your likes and you seemed to constantly like his and that Beijing guy's posts... 



OsmanAli98 said:


> I am not a beating a dead horse I just hate it when Pakistanis fight each other over differing views no wonder we are so divided I never see this with Indians online and in real life Pakistanis prefer to fight with each other enough



No one's fighting lol....we are _debating_. Do you see insults, curses and slurs being hurled around? At least not from me, PIP, Dubious or Indos.

*Plus, differing views mean we actually think or hold an opinion*

_We don't carry the mob mentality of illiterate Indians (different than the literate ones) that are fed countless propaganda against Pakistan/Muslims daily.
_
There's a difference between unity and mob mentality, one breaks once pressure from the other side is applied and individual safety starts coming to the mind whereas the other holds steadfast against countless hardships as seen in our (Islamic) history.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Itachi said:


> *How* can a single ethnicity or nation control *60% *of the of the _whole_ worlds GDP??



Pretty ridiculous statement.

Ethnic chauvinism, no matter from where, is toxic and poisonous.

History has a way of humbling such egos.

I pray that we never become so arrogant in our success.

Lifestyle based solely on materialism and supposed superiority is incomplete without spirituality and humility.

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## Itachi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Ethnic chauvinism, no matter from where, is toxic and poisonous.
> 
> History has a way of humbling such egos.
> 
> I pray that we never become so arrogant in our success.
> 
> Lifestyle based solely on materialism and supposed superiority is incomplete without spirituality and humility.



Kinda sums up the whole thread. If I might add....if rice farmers can become millionaires & billionaires then the opposite is true also since those rice farmers were once part of ancient dynasties. 

And the same is true for all parts of the world, including Pakistan, if we forget our origins, we will be making the same mistakes as those whose bones lay in graves.

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## beijingwalker

It's just a theory, of course those numbers are highly debateable but at least it shows that China' s influence in the hisotry was no less than any western powers in Europe.

*China’s Historical GDP Share in The World*
An American Nobel winner claimed that by 2040 China will be the biggest economy on the earth and he also said that China had been the biggest economy on the earth for the last two thousand years. Now let’s take a look at China’s historical *GDP share in the world:*
*





*
Qin Dynasty 秦朝 221–206 BC 
GDP per capita: Unknow
The share of Qing dynasty and the dynasties before it are too aged to calculate, no relevant data is available, so we can only start from the Han dynasty.

Han dynasty 汉朝 (206 BC–220 AD) 
GDP per capita: $450
Han Dynasty accounted for* 26% of the global wealth*, at that time the Roman Empire dominated western world. while Han Dynasty is the economic center of the eastern world.

Tang Dynasty 唐朝 618 – 907 AD
GDP per capita:$480
China’s feudal society gets to its peak in Tang Dynasty, which accounted for *58% of the world GDP,* the empire is very rich and powerful comparing with other countries of the same time. In the western world the second Eastern Roman Empire accounted for only 9% of the world GDP. The third Arab Empire accounted for just 7% of the world’s GDP. The fourth Ancient India accounted for 7% of the world’s GDP. Tang Dynasty could be described as a dominance among many great ancient countries.

Song Dynasty 宋朝 960-1279 AD
GDP per capita:US$2,280
The entire S*ong Dynasty accounted for 80% of the world’s GDP*, The share should be the highest among Chinese history mainly due to a booming commerce, foreign trade and technological advancement, all these made Song the richest dynasty in Chinese history. After a thousand years, Westerners said: “a thousand years ago, China’s economic aggregate accounted for 80% of the world at that time.” After a thousand years Chinese people said in shock: “how is this possible?” Western historians described its wealth and prosperity like this, the living conditions of a porter at the gate of the capital Dongjing city was even better than a Western monarch of the same period. Song is a classic dynasty that hide the wealth into the people

Yuan Dynasty 元朝 1271-1368 AD
It is difficult to calculate economic data of Yuan Dynasty, its GDP is estimated to *account for about 30% -35%* of the world according to the foreign research institutions.

Ming Dynasty 明朝 1368–1644 AD
GDP per capita:US$600
In the period of Wanli of the Ming Dynasty, its total wealth* accounted for 55% of the world GDP.* The average share was 45% during the whole Ming Dynasty, but the late Ming Dynasty rapidly declined for famine and war.

Qing Dynasty 清朝 1644-1922 AD
GDP per capita:US$600
*Qing Dynasty accounted for 35% -10% of the World GDP*, the economy experienced big recession after 1840 Opium War, large amounts of silver were used to pay indemnities to invaders and outflowed at the same time, causing its GDP rapidly falling from 35% in period of Kangxi and Qianlong to less than 10% in Jiaqing period.

http://www.chinawhisper.com/chinas-historical-gdp-share-in-the-world/

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Itachi said:


> Kinda sums up the whole thread. If I might add....if rice farmers can become millionaires & billionaires then the opposite is true also since those rice farmers were once part of ancient dynasties.
> 
> And the same is true for all parts of the world, including Pakistan, if we forget our origins, we will be making the same mistakes as those whose bones lay in graves.



This kind of arrogance has destroyed the Arabs, Americans, Europeans, and Russians, yet some believe China is immune.

At its height, the Islamic world controlled all trade in Eurasia and all routes out of Africa for almost 1,000 years. Yet you will never see us arrogantly claim that we are exceptional on the basis of racial identity or economic power.

It is humility and respect of other human beings which assures prosperity and friendship between various people.

When will decadent materialistic societies of the West and East Asia learn?

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> The entire S*ong Dynasty accounted for 80% of the world’s GDP*, The share should be the highest among Chinese history mainly due to a booming commerce, foreign trade and technological advancement, all these made Song the richest dynasty in Chinese history. After a thousand years, Westerners said: “a thousand years ago, China’s economic aggregate accounted for 80% of the world at that time.” After a thousand years Chinese people said in shock: “how is this possible?” Western historians described its wealth and prosperity like this, the living conditions of a porter at the gate of the capital Dongjing city was even better than a Western monarch of the same period. Song is a classic dynasty that hide the wealth into the people



Wow....what a load of...well you know...

Plus, you can see the play on the words in the first sentence..."The entire Song Dynasty"....like what??? How did you calculate that the *entire* dynasty from 960 till 1279 AD accounted for *80%* of the world's GDP!?

The Arab/Muslims empires were at the height of their power at that time along with the Mali Empire, which had *Mansa Musa*, who is *the richest person of all time* according to present records. He controlled all the major salt and gold routes and mines.

Height of hypocrisy pulling out numbers from clouds. @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Dubious @Indos @OsmanAli98

EDIT: Look at his source lol....what a day...

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Wow....what a load of...well you know...
> 
> Plus, you can see the play on the words in the first sentence..."The entire Song Dynasty"....like what??? How did you calculate that the *entire* dynasty from 960 till 1279 AD accounted for *80%* of the world's GDP!?
> 
> The Arab/Muslims empires were at the height of their power at that time along with the Mali Empire, which had *Mansa Musa*, who is *the richest person of all time* according to present records. He controlled all the major salt and gold routes and mines.
> 
> Height of hypocrisy pulling out numbers from clouds. @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Dubious @Indos @OsmanAli98


Kindly notice that I said those number are highly debatable before I posted them,it is just a theroy.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Itachi said:


> Wow....what a load of...well you know...
> 
> Plus, you can see the play on the words in the first sentence..."The entire Song Dynasty"....like what??? How did you calculate that the *entire* dynasty from 960 till 1279 AD accounted for *80%* of the world's GDP!?
> 
> The Arab/Muslims empires were at the height of their power at that time along with the Mali Empire, which had *Mansa Musa*, who is *the richest person of all time* according to present records. He controlled all the major salt and gold routes and mines.
> 
> Height of hypocrisy pulling out numbers from clouds. @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Dubious @Indos @OsmanAli98



China prospered because of humility and diligence. The whole world mocked them and insulted them, so they put their head down and worked hard to uplift themselves. In the end, it payed off. No one ever took them seriously as a threat until now.

China’s failure can only be with the opposite, which is becoming everything which they loathe in the West: racist, arrogant, materialistic, cold-hearted, prideful, classist chauvinists.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Kindly notice that I said those number are highly debatable before I posted them,it is just a theroy.



Right, I read that part but still....80% is like....not even a theory lol....it's impossible...

They didn't even take into account the wealth in the New World, which wasn't colonized/explored up till the 1500's.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Itachi said:


> Right, I read that part but still....80% is like....not even a theory lol....it's impossible...
> 
> They didn't even take into account the wealth in the New World, which wasn't colonized/explored up till the 1500's.



Our ancestors, the Mughals, at the *height* of their power and prosperity had 25% of the world’s wealth, which made it an attractive target for the British, French, and Portuguese.

I am sure China’s share would be similar. This is logical.

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## Itachi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Our ancestors, the Mughals, at the *height* of their power and prosperity had 25% of the world’s wealth, which made it an attractive target for the British, French, and Portuguese.
> 
> I am sure China’s share would be similar. This is logical.



Big difference in 25% and 80% lol

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## Dubious

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> China prospered because of humility and diligence. The whole world mocked them and insulted them, so they put their head down and worked hard to uplift themselves. In the end, it payed off. No one ever took them seriously as a threat until now.
> 
> China’s failure can only be with the opposite, which is becoming everything which they loathe in the West: racist, arrogant, materialistic, cold-hearted, prideful, classist chauvinists.


I totally agree with this!

Chinese were examples of humility hence my shock here on PDF. They were considered examples of humbleness hence we were taught words of Confucious as proverbs....Some still adapted by WEST.

Not anymore...New generation learns that Japanese and Korean are most humble and even as an example of humilty..took less than one generation to lose the pedestal!

It is seen in history arrogance does kill....usually and almost always leads to its downfall...Germany and USSR are recent examples.



beijingwalker said:


> Song Dynasty 宋朝 960-1279 AD
> GDP per capita:US$2,280
> The entire S*ong Dynasty accounted for 80% of the world’s GDP*, The share should be the highest among Chinese history mainly due to a booming commerce, foreign trade and technological advancement, all these made Song the richest dynasty in Chinese history. After a thousand years, Westerners said: “a thousand years ago, China’s economic aggregate accounted for 80% of the world at that time.” After a thousand years Chinese people said in shock: “how is this possible?” Western historians described its wealth and prosperity like this, the living conditions of a porter at the gate of the capital Dongjing city was even better than a Western monarch of the same period. Song is a classic dynasty that hide the wealth into the people


I think they are not counting just China but also the tributaries....It is well known that a lot of countries paid tribute to China from Southeast Asia (however this was not streached to the 10th century...my guess is the obnoxious author penned the independent tributaries in as China’s wealth but even then it won't reach 80%...that's to say that Muslim empire and rising West had nothing. ...

Another objectable point would be what do they count as world? I am almost certain they didn't count Africa dismissing it as poor (never wondering why France and Germany fought to get in there)


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## Dubious

Itachi said:


> Mali Empire, which had *Mansa Musa*,


This guy is underrated which is good had more people known about him they would have come flocking like France ...

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## Itachi

Dubious said:


> This guy is underrated which is good had more people known about him they would have come flocking like France ...



The Dutch or another colonizer sadly took over soon after Musa's death.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang E&T center training of making glasses prescription





The cosmetic&beauty training class in the E&T center,China's Xinjiang





*The student in E&T center decides to open a rehabilitation therapy center after graduation*





*The students in E&T center are learning household service




*
*Bakery class





*
*Uighur traditional handcrafts making class




*

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang E&T center nursery and babysitting training




*


*The students in E&T center are learning steel rolling




*
*The student in E&T center are learning how to breed rabbit*

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## beijingwalker

Skill training centers for poverty alleviation is common in poor, underdevloped regions in China, trainings are sponsored by the government so trainees don't have to pay. Aid money can only last you for a while, the best way to get out of poverty is to learn a skill, China always put training the top priority for poverty alleviation.

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## Rasengan

beijingwalker said:


> Skill training centers for poverty alleviation is common in poor, underdevloped regions in China, trainings are sponsored by the government so trainees don't have to pay. Aid money can only last you for a while, the best way to get out of poverty is to learn a skill, China always put training the top priority for poverty alleviation.



These initiatives are good. They should learn a skill which can get them a job across China not just in Xinjiang. But the Govt is going in the right direction.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> They love dancing, so many dance classes of different style available there.
> 
> Uighur girl does Indian dance or Pakistani dance, I can't tell the difference.



I was going through the thread and saw this lol....Muslims don't act like this at all. Another fake video.


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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> I was going through the thread and saw this lol....Muslims don't act like this at all. Another fake video.


This Uighur girl imitates a pig grunt, so she surely is not a Muslim , right? but she is Uighur.

















Itachi said:


> I was going through the thread and saw this lol....Muslims don't act like this at all. Another fake video.


Are they all fake??

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> This Uighur girl imitates a pig grunt, so she surely is not a Muslim , right? but she is Uighur.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are they all fake??



I can't read Chinese and neither can 99.9% of PDF. Posting videos of girls imitating pig noises and other foolish acts doesn't help your case either. 

How do we know the video is from outside of Xinjiang with a made up title?? Something the Chinese propagandists are well-versed in.


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## PeaceGen

China is installing a surveillance app on tourists’ phones in Xinjiang - Vox.com

China is installing a surveillance app on tourists’ phones in Xinjiang Vox.com
Travel warning: Chinese border guards secretly install spy software on tourists’ phones Express.co.uk
Chinese government loads surveillance app onto phones of visitors to Xinjiang: report CNN
China is installing spyware on tourists' phones Fox News
China routinely installs secret surveillance app on tourists’ phones when they visit region of Muslim ‘re-education’ camps The Independent
*View full coverage on Google News*

Local : 2019-07-03(Wednesday) 21:10:00
found via seductiveapps.com/news


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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> How do we know the video is from outside of Xinjiang with a made up title?? Something the Chinese propagandists are well-versed in.


They are tik tok videos, if you think all videos I posted are fake, you don't have to follow me around and discuss.



PeaceGen said:


> China is installing a surveillance app on tourists’ phones in Xinjiang - Vox.com
> 
> China is installing a surveillance app on tourists’ phones in Xinjiang Vox.com
> Travel warning: Chinese border guards secretly install spy software on tourists’ phones Express.co.uk
> Chinese government loads surveillance app onto phones of visitors to Xinjiang: report CNN
> China is installing spyware on tourists' phones Fox News
> China routinely installs secret surveillance app on tourists’ phones when they visit region of Muslim ‘re-education’ camps The Independent
> *View full coverage on Google News*
> 
> Local : 2019-07-03(Wednesday) 21:10:00
> found via seductiveapps.com/news


I just checked with several of my friends just coming back from Xinjiang, they told me that's BS.

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## PeaceGen

beijingwalker said:


> I just checked with several of my friends just coming back from Xinjiang, they told me that's BS.



are those friends native Chinese like you?
they could be doing this just to foreigners you know.


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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> How do we know the video is from outside of Xinjiang with a made up title?? Something the Chinese propagandists are well-versed in.


First you claimed that Uighur graves are not Muslim graves and I showed your pictures of traditionla Uighur graves, and then you claim Uighur girls are not Muslim girls and I showed your many Uighur girls Tik Tok videoi, but you are just in denail mode even deep inside you know they are Uighur girls. It seems that all Muslims should follow your standard of Islam otherwise they are not Muslims, what a man..



PeaceGen said:


> are those friends native Chinese like you?
> they could be doing this just to foreigners you know.


There are many foreign vlog videos just uploaded this week, go and see if any of them mentioned that.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFZ1X5yrExxBU22SGZ2uJBw

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## beijingwalker

The students in E&T center are learning fruit planting skills





The students in E&T center are learning vehicle repairing skills

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## beijingwalker

*Uighur child star Barna Enwer, 拜爾娜, popular in many Chinese shows and dramas




*

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## beijingwalker

*Barna Enwer*

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## scherz

Regardless of whether Uyghur or Han, these shows are surreal. Ruinating thousands of childhoods. Very disgusting in my opinion.

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## beijingwalker

scherz said:


> Regardless of whether Uyghur or Han, these shows are surreal. Ruinating thousands of childhoods. Very disgusting in my opinion.


I agree, but kids are kids, maybe they like it.

Uighur kids love this kind of dance, they won the title of national contest for this.

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## 055_destroyer

US supporter will scream this is propaganda. 10 million Uighur is in concentration camp.
Uighur shall be all illiterate , study Islamic school and continued live nomadic life.
Upgrading their standard of living is evil.

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## fisher1

I would appreciate if you don't use the word Jihadist as it is mocking Islamic beautiful concept of Jihad. Use the word terrorist, extremist, whatever you like.

Jihad is a Muslim war fought in defence or against oppression and there are specific rules followed the least of which is not even trees should be hurt in a war and people who don't want to fight should be protected even in war. Jihad is a struggle against nafs (evil desires of humans) , jihad is raising your voice against oppression.

I am a Jihadist. I am doing Jihad right this moment by correcting you over your improper usage of the word. I did Jihad earlier by helping some poor person financially. Do you get it? Jihad means struggle. You could've never been close to a war and still done Jihad. Jihad is serving and pleasing your parents and i do a lot of that MashaAllah. 

ISIS and terrorists aren't Jihadists, they're blowing up people who don't want to fight them and that makes it oppression. They're damaging property. If you aren't allowed to damage trees, how does blowing up innocents is allowed. One of the Western propaganda is distorting the word Jihad and inventing a new word Jihadists. You're following Western propaganda but admonishing us not to do that? Lol

As for Western propaganda, please explain this.

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## 055_destroyer

DeadSparrow said:


> As for Western propaganda, please explain this.



Hi

From this video, I can see a lot of misinformation and bias from this blogger. First of all, east Turkestan is a very short lived period when Qing dynasty collapsed and China become disunify. Even the very first mention of existent of Kashgar and Xinjiang. It is Chinese Han who first recorded the history of these places and administrate these area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashgar

*The earliest mention of Kashgar occurs when a Chinese Han dynasty envoy traveled the Northern Silk Road to explore lands to the west*

It is part of China territories as early as 125 BC. While this blogger try to claim China only conquer this area as early as 1950 only..
b
Also from this presentation, don't you find it fishy? Non of what he present of his visit to Xinjiang achieved nothing positive. From his claim of high surveillance, to mention not a single local smiling, all look in fear and forced. And even his report of Ramandan, he concluded no muslim fast just by a single Uighur who don't do so.
The only positive he can provide from this video is the dinner kebab which he claim is delicious. Is that really the xinjiang we know? Or has this video only try to let us look at what they want us to interpret by purposely omit things they don't want us to know. If so called unbias documentary only present everything negative from their finding. Can it be a real relevant finding or just the so called finding which they want us to interpret in the way they want?

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> As for Western propaganda, please explain this.


I posted over 100 videos about Xinjiang covering all walks of life, can you explain them one by one?

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## scherz

beijingwalker said:


> I agree, but kids are kids, maybe they like it.
> 
> Uighur kids love this kind of dance, they won the title of national contest for this.


C'mon, just because of one video, this is not going to prove that Uighur kids "love this kind of dance". I suspect that it's staged from the party to create awareness of Uighurs to Han Chinese.
I am not attacking the party, what I mean is, that this is kind of common influence for the easy people. Also daily practice here in the West.
Very suspicious.

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## vi-va

OsmanAli98 said:


> There is two Indonesian orgs out there one has competing narrative one says rights are being violated other says no in fact the Malaysian Interior Minister was in the PRC and some other group saw no issues in the Xinjiang region but Some Malaysian politicians were critical of reports you see the problem is the two competing narratives obviously rival powers and their drums of media influence will try to inflame or break relations I think Muslims should be careful we saw the same thing with Yugoslavia in the 90s,Iraq in 03,Syria on 2011 too many examples of competing narratives worst part instead of helping this causes further instabilty and more harm
> 
> 
> 
> There was an SCMP article a week back about two Indonesian groups competing for legitimacy again not taking sides here the domestic politics in Indonesia is kinda tight rope their President Jokowi had go through a nasty campaign with rivals slinging him as a non Muslim or of Chinese origin remember back in 1998 there was mass ethnic riots between the Indonesians and Ethnic Chinese during the downfall of The Suharto Govt and post 97 economic crisis Indonesia still going through issues tho I hope tensions will cool down



Insightful comments. You take Muslim countries domestic politic factors into account. 

Considering how nasty political campaign could be, how strong the political motivation is, I am not surprised the opposition will Xinjiang to attack the ruling party. 

China has seen those campaign too much, the opposition party will come and repair relationship as soon as they get elected.



beijingwalker said:


> Kashgar old town


Bro, I am booking ticket to Kashgar, now.

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## CIA Mole

You gotta ask, are these camps even effective? You can never change a persons skin color or facial features which is where the real division is.


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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> irst you claimed that Uighur graves are not Muslim graves and I showed your pictures of traditionla Uighur graves, and then you claim Uighur girls are not Muslim girls and I showed your many Uighur girls Tik Tok videoi, but you are just in denail mode even deep inside you know they are Uighur girls. It seems that all Muslims should follow your standard of Islam otherwise they are not Muslims, what a man..



lol wut??

I never said any of that except for the part that most of your videos here are either fake or choreographed. If not both. 

You're making a lot of *assumptions *here just by the way I react and respond.


----------



## JSCh

*Volunteers lend a helping hand to Xinjiang patients*
By CHAI HUA | China Daily | Updated: 2019-07-08 09:13

















Volunteer doctors give free consultations and examinations to members of the Tajik ethnic group in Kashgar, Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region, last month. Provided to China Daily

Experts from first-tier cities are helping to improve medical services in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region by giving free treatment, training and grassroots education.

Some come from Shanghai, where a project dubbed "silver age action" was launched by the municipal government in 2003 to encourage elderly experts to provide free medical services in Xinjiang for about two months every year. In the 16 years since it was launched, 382 elderly experts have taken part, benefiting more than a million people.

While medical treatment is the main focus, the project also covers nine other areas, including education, culture and psychological counseling.

Liu Hongdi, 69, used to be chief ophthalmologist at the Shanghai Eye Disease Prevention and Control Center. Now retired, she began working as a volunteer in Xinjiang for the eighth time last month as part of a team that includes 20 other elderly experts.

The average age of the volunteers is 64, and they are assigned to different counties in Kashgar and Karamay. In Karamay last year, four experts treated 1,925 patients and trained 370 local staff.

Liu said that every time she visits Xinjiang, it feels like home, and she has made many friends among local doctors and patients. This time she is working in Zepu county, Kashgar, treating complicated diseases, passing on her experience and knowledge and giving lectures to local doctors in major hospitals, villages and nursing homes.

In addition to the retired experts from Shanghai, many doctors who are still working are also lending a helping hand in Xinjiang.

Wu Rui, a doctor at the Third Hospital of Peking University in Beijing, has twice volunteered to provide free medical services in Xinjiang as part of a team organized by an All-China Federation of Trade Unions.

The federation arranged for a team of 13 volunteer medical experts to offer services in Xinjiang in June, providing free treatment for more than 1,000 people in local hospitals and nomadic settlements and giving lectures to about 18,000 medical workers in villages.

Wu said their volunteer work is down-to-earth and highly efficient.

"Once, in just two days, our team of four doctors made diagnoses and gave treatments to more than 100 patients, and also gave four lectures and performed two surgeries," she said.

Wu said that when she was treating members of the Kazak ethnic group in a village last year, she found many of them were anemic because their nomadic lifestyle made them susceptible to intestinal worms, which affected their ability to absorb nutrients. The team then decided to send anthelmintic medicine to village children every year.

While treating patients in Xinjiang, Wu has also discovered many problems are caused by a lack of knowledge about healthcare. For instance, some residents feed naan, a flat-bread that is a staple food in Xinjiang, to newborns, though doing so can cause suffocation. She wrote several articles to spread knowledge about such risks.

The doctors' work has been well-received by residents, with many saying they are grateful to have famous doctors from first-tier cities treating them and saving them time and money. Once the doctors have left Xinjiang, they can continue to prescribe medicine for patients with chronic diseases.

Local hospitals are trying to set up long-term, cooperative relationships with the expert doctors' hospitals to provide services such as training programs and long-distance joint diagnoses.

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## JSCh

*Tianjin helping Xinjiang's football development in China*
Source: Xinhua| 2019-07-08 15:11:41|Editor: Shi Yinglun

TIANJIN, July 8 (Xinhua) -- The increase in football development in northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region is a result of "pairing-up support for Xinjiang" from provincial-level regions.

In March 2010, China unveiled a new action plan calling for other regions to streamline and enhance aid delivery for Xinjiang. A total of 19 provinces and municipalities were paired with different cities and regions of Xinjiang.

Tianjin, paired with Hetian city, provided football equipment and training materials with pictures and videos to local youth players and football coaches this month.

Two professional football coaches from Tianjin also guided students' training sessions.

Lgamberdi, a football coach in a primary school of Luopu County, said though the equipment and coaches were limited, students still showed great enthusiasm in playing football.

"With this new equipment, we will strive to perform better in competitions and cultivate more footballing talents," Lgamberdi said.

Memet Azizi, director of Cele County's bureau of education, said that Tianjin's help had brought them hope for the future.

With support from Tianjin, a standard football field and training center was constructed at Cele County's No. 1 Primary School.

Muratjan Muhtar, captain of the school's football team, met his idol Mirahmetjan Muzepper in Tianjin a month ago. The captain of Chinese Super League side Tianjin Teda is also a Xinjiang native, and encouraged Muhtar to stick to his dream.

"I want to be like him, and I will insist on training hard to win glory for China in the future," Muhtar said.

Anzarjan, another primary student from Yutian County, said he hoped to play football in Tianjin when he grows up.

"I saw the desire and passion to play football from these children. It's our responsibility to make their dream come true," said Zhang Xin, deputy director of the Tianjin sports bureau, and head of the Tianjin Football Association.

According to Zhang, Tianjin will continue to provide Xinjiang with coaches, equipment, and advanced training methods, and help the region cultivate excellent football players.

A total of 12 football-focused schools were established in Xinjiang's Hetian City, which now contains over 500 football fields.

"More and more children are fond of playing football, and even more girls have joined training sessions," said Yang Ying, from Hetian's local authority.

Xu Ming, head of the Xinjiang Football Association, said the organization would look to promote the development of football in Hetian by cooperating further with Tianjin, in order to further contribute to the reform and development of Chinese football as a whole.


----------



## fisher1

055_destroyer said:


> Hi
> 
> From this video, I can see a lot of misinformation and bias from this blogger. First of all, east Turkestan is a very short lived period when Qing dynasty collapsed and China become disunify. Even the very first mention of existent of Kashgar and Xinjiang. It is Chinese Han who first recorded the history of these places and administrate these area.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashgar
> 
> *The earliest mention of Kashgar occurs when a Chinese Han dynasty envoy traveled the Northern Silk Road to explore lands to the west*
> 
> It is part of China territories as early as 125 BC. While this blogger try to claim China only conquer this area as early as 1950 only..
> b
> Also from this presentation, don't you find it fishy? Non of what he present of his visit to Xinjiang achieved nothing positive. From his claim of high surveillance, to mention not a single local smiling, all look in fear and forced. And even his report of Ramandan, he concluded no muslim fast just by a single Uighur who don't do so.
> The only positive he can provide from this video is the dinner kebab which he claim is delicious. Is that really the xinjiang we know? Or has this video only try to let us look at what they want us to interpret by purposely omit things they don't want us to know. If so called unbias documentary only present everything negative from their finding. Can it be a real relevant finding or just the so called finding which they want us to interpret in the way they want?



He has other videos where he portrays China in a beautiful light. He also has no interest in Uighurs, he's just a random travel vlogger. So if he's showing that then there must be truth to it. The guy hasn't made another video about Uighurs. 

Why do you have to pay to visit Mosques? Nobody praying in the biggest mosque. People actually visiting mosques as tourist spots rather than for praying.



beijingwalker said:


> I posted over 100 videos about Xinjiang covering all walks of life, can you explain them one by one?



From what i understand, you're either in some position in China or just live there. You really aren't the most trustworthy source to expose anything wrong going on there. 

Communists are also known for their propaganda btw
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_propaganda

It is also easy for you to just show what you want to show. The Uighurs are a minority, this crackdown has strengthened recently and China is gigantic. Not really hard to manipulate things and show the positive. 

I could've shown you the positives in Waziristan even when military was doing operations and drones were bombing the crap out of people in KPK in Pakistan. 

I think if you were to vlog especially the mosques and the areas that vlogger did, it would be way more believable. But i don't really expect you to.

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## Itachi

The propaganda is strong in this thread. 


Look at all these Chinese posters posting different aspect of Uyghur life, whether fake or not, that can be argued too.

But you have to say, if the camps/detention centers don't exist then why are they in such a fire to make hundreds of threads and posts on PDF regarding Uyghurs?? 

Simply said, if there's no camps, no one would bother to say otherwise. If they do exist, then normally, you'll see propagandists here on PDF making multiple threads and posts to show Uyghurs doing good and China in the limelight.

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## JSCh

Itachi said:


> The propaganda is strong in this thread.
> 
> 
> Look at all these Chinese posters posting different aspect of Uyghur life, whether fake or not, that can be argued too.
> 
> But you have to say, if the camps/detention centers don't exist then why are they in such a fire to make hundreds of threads and posts on PDF regarding Uyghurs??
> 
> Simply said, if there's no camps, no one would bother to say otherwise. If they do exist, then normally, you'll see propagandists here on PDF making multiple threads and posts to show Uyghurs doing good and China in the limelight.


FYI, I have regularly posted Xinjiang and western region related news for many years in this particular thread 
-> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/western-china-news-and-development.416059/

I guess I should consider continue posting there for anyone who want to know Xinjiang with less politics.

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> From what i understand, you're either in some position in China or just live there. You really aren't the most trustworthy source to expose anything wrong going on there.
> 
> Communists are also known for their propaganda btw
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_propaganda
> 
> It is also easy for you to just show what you want to show. The Uighurs are a minority, this crackdown has strengthened recently and China is gigantic. Not really hard to manipulate things and show the positive.
> 
> I could've shown you the positives in Waziristan even when military was doing operations and drones were bombing the crap out of people in KPK in Pakistan.
> 
> I think if you were to vlog especially the mosques and the areas that vlogger did, it would be way more believable. But i don't really expect you to.



What sources are reliable sources in your mind? I posted videos of different sources, you can choose not to believe them, but my sources are just as reliable, or not reliable as yours, I don't live in Xinjiang, true, but neither do you.I posted videos of different parts of China, I don't have to visit all of them before posting aritcles and videos about them.

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## 055_destroyer

DeadSparrow said:


> He has other videos where he portrays China in a beautiful light. He also has no interest in Uighurs, he's just a random travel vlogger. So if he's showing that then there must be truth to it. The guy hasn't made another video about Uighurs.
> 
> Why do you have to pay to visit Mosques? Nobody praying in the biggest mosque. People actually visiting mosques as tourist spots rather than for praying.
> 
> 
> 
> From what i understand, you're either in some position in China or just live there. You really aren't the most trustworthy source to expose anything wrong going on there.
> 
> Communists are also known for their propaganda btw
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_propaganda
> 
> It is also easy for you to just show what you want to show. The Uighurs are a minority, this crackdown has strengthened recently and China is gigantic. Not really hard to manipulate things and show the positive.
> 
> I could've shown you the positives in Waziristan even when military was doing operations and drones were bombing the crap out of people in KPK in Pakistan.
> 
> I think if you were to vlog especially the mosques and the areas that vlogger did, it would be way more believable. But i don't really expect you to.


 The communist propangada link you provided is nothing but random setup by nobody and write some rubbish about it. How can it be a point of your proof? I can even go in now and edit it , if i want.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> What sources are reliable sources in your mind? I posted videos of different sources, you can choose not to believe them, but my sources are just as reliable, or not reliable as yours, I don't live in Xinjiang, true, but neither do you.I posted videos of different parts of China, I don't have to visit all of them before posting aritcles and videos about them.



Vlogs of famous travel vloggers who don't have any interest in this bullcrap and just do it for fun and views. They would be pretty accurate and reliable. What does Joe Hattab (the vlogger i posted video of) has to gain if he shows Xinjiang in a bad or a positive light? Nothing. He will only show what he sees. A whole playlist of him showing beauty of China and positives

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6AAhWqBusBrR7ezgB5bcvcXi6BLOGpIq

Even he admits that the situation was different just two years back and the mosques were jam-packed. 

Government level delegations like the Indonesians went there and actually confirmed what has been dismissed as Western propaganda. Those are pretty hard to dismiss, ain't it? United Nations reports. 

Etc etc

What you've posted so far are random clips showing how China is improving the lives of people and how people are happy there. They would be 100% accurate but you can easily take old footage when this wasn't happening, of people who actually don't give a crap about religion. 

Remember only Muslims who are religious are suffering the wrath. Not every Uighur would be religious obviously and a huge percentage of population would toe the line too even if they don't agree with it. Many would be reformed Muslims or rather atheists, do you know how successful ISIS brainwashing centres are? 

Not hard to present footage that you want. But even still, you haven't posted anything showing active mosques with people praying there.

It is also pretty hard to believe that a government doing something like this in 2019 would admit to it. They would hide because it has serious implications.

I don't need to tell you what is and isn't a reliable source. You know yourself whether the content you're posting can be believable or not ))



055_destroyer said:


> The communist propangada link you provided is nothing but random setup by nobody and write some rubbish about it. How can it be a point of your proof? I can even go in now and edit it , if i want.



This is a fact. You can edit it but your edit would get removed if it lacks verifiable sources. Can easily link you other sites but the wiki has consolidated information in one place. 

By the way, if you don't know about communist propaganda that kind of proves you are victim of one ). The victims of propaganda don't really realise they're victim of one.


----------



## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> Vlogs of famous travel vloggers who don't have any interest in this bullcrap and just do it for fun and views. They would be pretty accurate and reliable. What does Joe Hattab (the vlogger i posted video of) has to gain if he shows Xinjiang in a bad or a positive light?


I have dozens of them both from China and abroad, needs several pages here to post them here.

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## 055_destroyer

DeadSparrow said:


> By the way, if you don't know about communist propaganda that kind of proves you are victim of one ). The victims of propaganda don't really realise they're victim of one.



Yes, I am victim of communist China. The same government who pull millions of peasant like us to middle class, the same communist who is working hard everyday to change our lives. All day, I can see small small changes happening everyday. From my very inconvenient hometown to start linking with a major roads and slowly to having HSR linking to major cities that improve our standard of living. My hometown used to have children not going to school or too poor to go to school. Now not a single children miss school becos of financial problem. The poor village house now has turn into many multi storey concrete housing that install with aircon and heater. Electricity is no more luxury but neccesity. Tell me what have democracy Pakistan government did to improve the lives of millions of Pakistanis for the past 20 years? If you have government that is everyday working hard to improve the standard of citizen. Will you be a fervent fan of them? I seen the changes myself. The transformation happened. The improvement of standard of living of many ordinary citizen. A country that gives hope to everybody. As long as you are willing to work hard and contribute to the society. You will be rewarded. I seen life improve, street is safer, cleaner.


Would you be proud of such government if you have one?

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## oprih

The muricans and their shameless chearleaders/prostitutes are now shitting on their pants after their propaganda got exposed in this thread.

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## oprih

Being casted in tv shows and gaining fans is human rights abuse according to dumb muricans, dropping bombs is the right way to go.

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## oprih

Well done China! The people of Xinjiang, China are gaining much needed skills that they can use for jobs thanks to this program.

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## fisher1

055_destroyer said:


> Yes, I am victim of communist China. The same government who pull millions of peasant like us to middle class, the same communist who is working hard everyday to change our lives. All day, I can see small small changes happening everyday. From my very inconvenient hometown to start linking with a major roads and slowly to having HSR linking to major cities that improve our standard of living. My hometown used to have children not going to school or too poor to go to school. Now not a single children miss school becos of financial problem. The poor village house now has turn into many multi storey concrete housing that install with aircon and heater. Electricity is no more luxury but neccesity. Tell me what have democracy Pakistan government did to improve the lives of millions of Pakistanis for the past 20 years? If you have government that is everyday working hard to improve the standard of citizen. Will you be a fervent fan of them? I seen the changes myself. The transformation happened. The improvement of standard of living of many ordinary citizen. A country that gives hope to everybody. As long as you are willing to work hard and contribute to the society. You will be rewarded. I seen life improve, street is safer, cleaner.
> 
> 
> Would you be proud of such government if you have one?



All that and you don't have freedom of speech, religion and expression. That's a very expensive price to pay for pretty much becoming a slave to the government. 
Notice you said "as long as you work hard". These are not mutually exclusive btw, you can have progress while also having freedom. I think the Western developed world is a big example of that. 

Maybe to you, freedom especially freedom of religion isn't valuable but majority of the world views it differently. 

BTW, i don't know how this turned into a discussion on China, i actually don't have any issues with how China runs things, if their people are happy, good for them. My issue is with the Xinjiang especially where Uighurs majority live. For actions of few terrorists which could very well have been government sponsored to justify this mass imprisonment of Uighus into concentration camps. Won't be the first time a government did something like this. It's not fair to make millions suffer for actions of few.



beijingwalker said:


> I have dozens of them both from China and abroad, needs several pages here to post them here.



From 2019 showing Idkah mosque? Urumqi and Kashgar?

All your videos have shown are women dancing, children happy, progress this n that. Failed to see a single video which would counter the accusations that "western propaganda" are throwing and what Joe Hattab showed. 

How hard is it to show people praying in Idkah mosque, the biggest mosque which can house 20k people. Surely, there must be a few people praying there? 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Kah_Mosque

Several years back, this was Idkah Mosque 





Just a year back, this happened 





Oh no, where are the Muslims praying disappeared and why does the mosque look abandoned? Must be Western propaganda? 

This guy must be on Uncle Sam payroll.


----------



## Itachi

yantong1980 said:


> L
> 
> 
> LOL, now YOU even can not sure so called 'camps/detention centers' exist, but in other hand you called other that posted here as propagandist? How about you then? Are you an Uyghur from the detention camps? or you see all happens with your OWN naked eyes? Even with no camps exist, retardist like you still pointing finger, yet you absolutely do not have hard evidence from your own experience, so who's the one are really bother with Uyghur issues by the way? It's you, and some r*t*rd here, think again HARDLY!



Reported.

@Indos does this guy seem like a false flagger? Why is he/she up in flames about this issue when the Indonesian govt. is already decided on the issue? 



yantong1980 said:


> L
> 
> 
> LOL, now YOU even can not sure so called 'camps/detention centers' exist, but in other hand you called other that posted here as propagandist? How about you then? Are you an Uyghur from the detention camps? or you see all happens with your OWN naked eyes? Even with no camps exist, retardist like you still pointing finger, yet you absolutely do not have hard evidence from your own experience, so who's the one are really bother with Uyghur issues by the way? It's you, and some r*t*rd here, think again HARDLY!



@Dubious reported him but just wanted to let you know too.

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## Dubious

yantong1980 said:


> retardist like you still pointing finger, yet you absolutely do not have hard evidence from your own experience, so who's the one are really bother with Uyghur issues by the way? It's you, and some r*t*rd here, think again HARDLY!


Mind your language...I have never heard such disrespect from an Indonesian!

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> This Uighur girl imitates a pig grunt, so she surely is not a Muslim , right? but she is Uighur.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are they all fake??



@Arsalan talking about this.


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## Itachi

Dubious said:


> Mind your language...I have never heard such disrespect from an Indonesian!









Just did a quick google search. Now why would a Indonesian be on here with a Chinese name?


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## Dubious

Itachi said:


> View attachment 568493
> 
> 
> Just did a quick google search. Now why would a Indonesian be on here with a Chinese name?


There are Chinese in Indonesia!


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## Itachi

Dubious said:


> There are Chinese in Indonesia!



Oh well. Did you check his IP tho?


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## Menthol

USA propaganda is pretty much very simple.

If it's benefiting USA, USA will promote human rights and liberalism.

But if it's not, it will be called terrorism and must be eradicated.

The same case as in Xinjiang.


What is the different between Xinjiang and the Taliban.

China can work with the Taliban to promote terrorism in USA, suddenly USA will say differently.


Muslims world today is very different compared with 20 years ago.

20 years ago, most Muslims will believe USA propaganda of Xinjiang.

But today, they take it as grin of salt.


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## Dubious

Itachi said:


> Oh well. Did you check his IP tho?


If he is from China he prob masking it, so what good is that?


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> @Arsalan talking about this.


You guys say Uighur tombs are not Muslim tombs and videos I posted are staged or fake, I just posted some videos and ask you if you guys think they are all fake and who you guys think you are to determine who and what is Muslim and who is not. 
Different Muslim countries and regions have their own unique culture and customs, you guys sound you are the judge for all Muslims in the world, that's really pathetic.

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## Itachi

Dubious said:


> If he is from China he prob masking it, so what good is that?



Then he should change one or both of his flags. He's not Indonesian then and should stop masquerading as one.


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> You guys say Uighur tombs are not Muslim tombs



Who said that? 



beijingwalker said:


> you guys sound you are the judge for all Muslims in the world, that's really pathetic.



Again, you're putting words in my mouth and basing your judgement off of your *own opinions*. We never judge anyone, only by their actions.

And actions speak louder than words.


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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> All your videos have shown are women dancing, children happy, progress this n that. Failed to see a single video which would counter the accusations that "western propaganda" are throwing and what Joe Hattab showed.
> 
> How hard is it to show people praying in Idkah mosque, the biggest mosque which can house 20k people. Surely, there must be a few people praying there?
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Kah_Mosque
> 
> Several years back, this was Idkah Mosque
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a year back, this happened
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, where are the Muslims praying disappeared and why does the mosque look abandoned? Must be Western propaganda?
> 
> This guy must be on Uncle Sam payroll.


I m not a religious person and I only care about how people live their everyday life and I don't know the mosque you talked about, I remember I posted some mosques and people pray in them but I don't know the names of those mosques. One more thing, I post Xinjiang videos to show their daily life, not everything is politically loaded and served to prove or disprove something.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Who said that?


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/reti...llen-pla-comerades-for-47-years.625231/page-2



Itachi said:


> Again, you're putting words in my mouth and basing your judgement off of your *own opinions*. We never judge anyone, only by their actions.
> 
> And actions speak louder than words.





> Itachi said: ↑
> I was going through the thread and saw this lol....Muslims don't act like this at all. Another fake video.



It's all about this video, why do you say that this is a fake video and Muslims never act like this? In China they do this all the time and I showed you many Tik Tok videos about that including the pig sound making Uighur girl. Who do you think you are to judge who is Muslim and who is not?

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/reti...llen-pla-comerades-for-47-years.625231/page-2



Right, if you're posting fake videos, that's another matter. 

A fake video is a fake one. I'll say it again, "No Muslim will act like that". So there you go.

Also, you link just showed me you saying something about Uyghurs. That's it. I didn't see anything there that said Uyghur tombs aren't Muslims tombs.



beijingwalker said:


> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/reti...llen-pla-comerades-for-47-years.625231/page-2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's all about this video, why do you say that this is a fake video and Muslims never act like this? In China they do this all the time and I showed you many Tik Tok videos about that including the pig sound making Uighur girl. Who do you think you are to judge who is Muslim and who is not?



Why would a Uyghur dance to Indian music? LOL 

Height of hypocrisy.


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Right, if you're posting fake videos, that's another matter.
> 
> A fake video is a fake one. I'll say it again, "No Muslim will act like that". So there you go.
> 
> Also, you link just showed me you saying something about Uyghurs. That's it. I didn't see anything there that said Uyghur tombs aren't Muslims tombs.


Ok, the judge of Muslims, so they are not Muslims, right? that's OK, They are Uighurs for sure.



Itachi said:


> Why would a Uyghur dance to Indian music? LOL
> 
> .


Han Chinese girls also dance Indian dance and belly dance, they do all kinds of dance on Tik Tok, it's a kind of trend in China, why are you so surprised?

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> why are you so surprised?



Didn't know Chinese liked Indian songs so much as imitate them like worshipping gods. 



beijingwalker said:


> Ok, the judge of Muslims, so they are not Muslims, right? that's OK, They are Uighurs for sure.



Damn, why are you so hell bent on proclaiming Uyghurs as non-Muslims??

Did I ever say Uyghurs weren't Muslims?? 

You lack complete comprehension of the English language.....don't they teach English in China??

All I said was that no Muslim would act like that, meaning that your video was fake. I didn't say the girl isn't Muslim, she might not be Muslim in the first place lol.


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Damn, why are you so hell bent on proclaiming Uyghurs as non-Muslims??


You claim they are not Muslims, you say Muslim will not do what they do, remember?
I can post tons of videos whichUighur girls do those dances. will you claim that all of them are not Muslims?



Itachi said:


> Didn't know Chinese liked Indian songs so much as imitate them like worshipping gods.
> .


Indian culture is a big part of global conture, why not, they also do Arabic and western dance, in your mind that's to worshipp them as gods, in China it's not. In China a dance is just a dance.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> I m not a religious person and I only care about how people live their everyday life and I don't know the mosque you talked about, I remember I posted some mosques and people pray in them but I don't know the names of those mosques. One more thing, I post Xinjiang videos to show their daily life, not everything is politically loaded and served to prove or disprove something.



Your religiosity doesn't matter. You want to disprove the accusations thrown and the video i posted of Joe Hattab and another vlogger then show an opposing video of the same place? That's all i meant.



Menthol said:


> USA propaganda is pretty much very simple.
> 
> If it's benefiting USA, USA will promote human rights and liberalism.
> 
> But if it's not, it will be called terrorism and must be eradicated.
> 
> The same case as in Xinjiang.
> 
> 
> What is the different between Xinjiang and the Taliban.
> 
> China can work with the Taliban to promote terrorism in USA, suddenly USA will say differently.
> 
> 
> Muslims world today is very different compared with 20 years ago.
> 
> 20 years ago, most Muslims will believe USA propaganda of Xinjiang.
> 
> But today, they take it as grin of salt.



I don't know why it is being dismissed as US propaganda.

For a time, i was 50/50 on it but that Arab vlogger then the Indonesian delegation and China's own different statements about it has made me believe that it's all going on there.

We now have the same information from variety of sources that aren't just US.


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> You claim they are not Muslims, you say Muslim will not do what they do, remember?
> I can post tons of videos whichUighur girls do those dances. will you claim that all of them are not Muslims?



lol stop quoting me troll. I never said they aren't Muslim. I'm just saying that no Muslim would ever do that. So by default, you videos are fake.

End of Story. You can keep posting fake videos on here with fake titles. Doesn't mean much in the end.


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> lol stop quoting me troll. I never said they aren't Muslim. I'm just saying that no Muslim would ever do that. So by default, you videos are fake.
> 
> End of Story. You can keep posting fake videos on here with fake titles. Doesn't mean much in the end.


LOL, OK, they are fake, hundreds and thousands of them, as long as you don't agree that they are Muslims , they are not. I got it.

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## Dubious

Itachi said:


> Then he should change one or both of his flags. He's not Indonesian then and should stop masquerading as one.


There are Indonesian Chinese...Like Singaporean Chinese..like Malaysian Chinese...

He CAN be Indonesian...lets try Malay (all Indonesians should know this basics:

@yantong1980 dari mana? kenapa ckp mcm tu sampai perlu delete?

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> LOL, OK, they are fake, hundreds and thousands of them, as long as you don't agree that they are Muslims , they are not. I got it.



Well I can't read Chinese so how do I know what the title is? 



beijingwalker said:


> LOL, OK, they are fake, hundreds and thousands of them, as long as you don't agree that they are Muslims , they are not. I got it.



Again, you're putting words in my mouth and making assumptions. Keep going.


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Well I can't read Chinese so how do I know what the title is?


Still in denial? unbelievable.. How about Dilruba and Gulnazar, two household names in China, do you think they are Muslims?








Itachi said:


> Again, you're putting words in my mouth and making assumptions. Keep going.


you judge that they are all not Muslims, you passed judgement on them, so suddenly all of them become non Muslims.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Still in denial? unbelievable.. How about Dilruba and Gulnazar, two household names in China, do you think they are Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you judge that they are all not Muslims, you passed judgement on them, so suddenly all of them become non Muslims.



lol I guess you truly can't comprehend English....like I said before, how do I know what the video portrays if I can't even read the title??

And again, you're putting words in my mouth, I only called out your videos as fake, didn't say any Muslims were non-Muslims.


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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> lol I guess you truly can't comprehend English....like I said before, how do I know what the video portrays if I can't even read the title??
> 
> And again, you're putting words in my mouth, I only called out your videos as fake, didn't say any Muslims were non-Muslims.


They act the same in the video as the girl doing the Indian dance in the video that you claim Muslims will never do. Or you think they are not Dilruba and Gulnazar? Some Pakistani posters know them and can read Chinese, do you want them to come to verify?



Itachi said:


> And again, you're putting words in my mouth, I only called out your videos as fake, didn't say any Muslims were non-Muslims.


What do you mean "fake" exactly?






If you say she is not Muslim, that's ok, all Uighur girls want to be her. An overwhelming role model in Xinjiang.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> If you say she is not Muslim, that's ok, all Uighur girls want to be her. An overwhelming role model in Xinjiang.



Right....you can keep dreaming.


----------



## Bismarck

No kowtowing the cultural genocide
What can the international community do against the oppression of the Uighurs in China? Above all, stop falling for threatening gestures.

The China policy of Western countries is driven by two emotions, former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott once said to Angela Merkel: fear and greed. That's right - and applies to non-Western countries as well, you can add. There is no evidence of any malady at this time, more than the suppression of the Uyghur minority in the western Chinese province of Xinjiang.

It has been known for more than a year that the Chinese government arrests more than one million Muslims in re-education camps in the far west of the country - without charge, trial, or even reasonable suspicion. Torture and abuse are widespread, according to ex-detainees. Those who are not imprisoned can hardly move more freely: all of Xinjiang is now a 1.6 million square kilometer high-security prison.

Surveillance cameras, digital snooping programs and neighborhood spies pursue everyone at every step in the service of a supposed anti-terrorist struggle. Last week, German Xinjiang researcher Adrian Zenz revealed that the Chinese state is systematically separating Uighur children from their parents. The boarding schools, where the minors are housed, resemble the prisons for the adults with their electric fences and alarm systems. According to the Zenz report, there is a kind of state day care center where babies are being cared for by imprisoned Muslims in crèches - presumably toddlers whose parents are both in camps must stay overnight there.

In Muslim states, the silence is particularly loud
What happens in Xinjiang is a cultural genocide: even the roots of the smallest should be cut off. The government wants to cultivate a new generation that is subordinate to the communist state ideology from an early age.
Despite these findings, few governments are comfortable with calling the Chinese government's human rights violations in Xinjiang - or even putting pressure on them. Open criticism came recently from the Trump government, which itself is under attack because it separates children on the Mexican border from their parents, from the European Parliament and from the Federal Government. That's it but more or less.

https://www.zeit.de/amp/politik/aus...china-menschenrechtsverletzung-unterdrueckung

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## twocents

DeadSparrow said:


> All that and you don't have freedom of speech, religion and expression. That's a very expensive price to pay for pretty much becoming a slave to the government.
> Notice you said "as long as you work hard". These are not mutually exclusive btw, you can have progress while also having freedom. I think the Western developed world is a big example of that.
> 
> Maybe to you, freedom especially freedom of religion isn't valuable but majority of the world views it differently.
> 
> BTW, i don't know how this turned into a discussion on China, i actually don't have any issues with how China runs things, if their people are happy, good for them. My issue is with the Xinjiang especially where Uighurs majority live. For actions of few terrorists which could very well have been government sponsored to justify this mass imprisonment of Uighus into concentration camps. Won't be the first time a government did something like this. It's not fair to make millions suffer for actions of few.
> 
> 
> 
> From 2019 showing Idkah mosque? Urumqi and Kashgar?
> 
> All your videos have shown are women dancing, children happy, progress this n that. Failed to see a single video which would counter the accusations that "western propaganda" are throwing and what Joe Hattab showed.
> 
> How hard is it to show people praying in Idkah mosque, the biggest mosque which can house 20k people. Surely, there must be a few people praying there?
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Kah_Mosque
> 
> Several years back, this was Idkah Mosque
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a year back, this happened
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, where are the Muslims praying disappeared and why does the mosque look abandoned? Must be Western propaganda?
> 
> This guy must be on Uncle Sam payroll.



Did you actually watch the video? You are comparing apples and oranges. In the second video the vlogger was talking about a mausoleum. How does one manage to confuse a mausoleum with a mosque? Would you care to explain?

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## fisher1

twocents said:


> Did you actually watch the video? You are comparing apples and oranges. In the second video the vlogger was talking about a mausoleum. How does one manage to confuse a mausoleum with a mosque? Would you care to explain?



He says it is south of Idkah mosque near it. It looks abandoned, i expected there to be people since it's near the mosque and people would go there. 

I didn't say it was a mosque.


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## twocents

DeadSparrow said:


> He says it is south of Idkah mosque near it. It looks abandoned, i expected there to be people since it's near the mosque and people would go there.
> 
> I didn't say it was a mosque.



What do you mean when you say "it looks abandoned"? An abandoned place generelly connotes a place falling into ruins. The mausoleum looks well maintained to me.

Judging from your comment that you posted along with the two videos, you have strong feelings toward the situation in Xinjiang. You are very much entitiled to it. The bottom line is that we are not going to sway each other's opinions on the matter. Lets' leave it at that.


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## vi-va

Itachi said:


> View attachment 568493
> 
> 
> Just did a quick google search. Now why would a Indonesian be on here with a Chinese name?


His name is yantong1980 which I guess he was born in 1980 not YangTong. Gosh, at least read carefully before pointing finger.

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## 055_destroyer

DeadSparrow said:


> All that and you don't have freedom of speech, religion and expression. That's a very expensive price to pay for pretty much becoming a slave to the government.
> Notice you said "as long as you work hard". These are not mutually exclusive btw, you can have progress while also having freedom. I think the Western developed world is a big example of that.
> 
> Maybe to you, freedom especially freedom of religion isn't valuable but majority of the world views it differently.
> 
> BTW, i don't know how this turned into a discussion on China, i actually don't have any issues with how China runs things, if their people are happy, good for them. My issue is with the Xinjiang especially where Uighurs majority live. For actions of few terrorists which could very well have been government sponsored to justify this mass imprisonment of Uighus into concentration camps. Won't be the first time a government did something like this. It's not fair to make millions suffer for actions of few.
> 
> 
> 
> From 2019 showing Idkah mosque? Urumqi and Kashgar?
> 
> All your videos have shown are women dancing, children happy, progress this n that. Failed to see a single video which would counter the accusations that "western propaganda" are throwing and what Joe Hattab showed.
> 
> How hard is it to show people praying in Idkah mosque, the biggest mosque which can house 20k people. Surely, there must be a few people praying there?
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Kah_Mosque
> 
> Several years back, this was Idkah Mosque
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a year back, this happened
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, where are the Muslims praying disappeared and why does the mosque look abandoned? Must be Western propaganda?
> 
> This guy must be on Uncle Sam payroll.


As if you really have freedom of speeches? Does your speeches translate to justice and a fair society that everyone can progress? I don't see freedom and I don't see hope when young can't go to school, countries are left in ruined. When natural disasters struck, ordinary citizen are left hopeless and monsoon killed large number of people and government can't do anything. Is this the freedom that you are taught being better than socialist communist?

When you can't even feed yourself and left to die. What kind of freedom do you still think you can have? You don't even have the basic means to live as a normal human being when sanitation, food a,means to earn a living and housing don't even available.

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## vi-va

DeadSparrow said:


> All that and you don't have freedom of speech, religion and expression. That's a very expensive price to pay for pretty much becoming a slave to the government.
> Notice you said "as long as you work hard". These are not mutually exclusive btw, you can have progress while also having freedom. I think the Western developed world is a big example of that.
> 
> Maybe to you, freedom especially freedom of religion isn't valuable but majority of the world views it differently.
> 
> BTW, i don't know how this turned into a discussion on China, i actually don't have any issues with how China runs things, if their people are happy, good for them. My issue is with the Xinjiang especially where Uighurs majority live. For actions of few terrorists which could very well have been government sponsored to justify this mass imprisonment of Uighus into concentration camps. Won't be the first time a government did something like this. It's not fair to make millions suffer for actions of few.
> 
> 
> 
> From 2019 showing Idkah mosque? Urumqi and Kashgar?
> 
> All your videos have shown are women dancing, children happy, progress this n that. Failed to see a single video which would counter the accusations that "western propaganda" are throwing and what Joe Hattab showed.
> 
> How hard is it to show people praying in Idkah mosque, the biggest mosque which can house 20k people. Surely, there must be a few people praying there?
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Kah_Mosque
> 
> Several years back, this was Idkah Mosque
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a year back, this happened
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, where are the Muslims praying disappeared and why does the mosque look abandoned? Must be Western propaganda?
> 
> This guy must be on Uncle Sam payroll.




How can you compare a Mosque with a tomb and say it's abandon. Where is your logical please? And please don't jump into conclusion by just viewing some western videos.

Some vloggers are dishonest and funded by CIA.


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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Right....you can keep dreaming.


Still in denial, is she a Muslim? Pass your mighty judgement on her.

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## JSCh

Breaking down the BBC’s visit to Hotan, Xinjiang – Sun Feiyang – Medium

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## Brainsucker

viva_zhao said:


> How can you compare a Mosque with a tomb and say it's abandon. Where is your logical please? And please don't jump into conclusion by just viewing some western videos.
> 
> Some vloggers are dishonest and funded by CIA.



maybe you can make a vlog when you're in khasgar bro.


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## vi-va

Brainsucker said:


> maybe you can make a vlog when you're in khasgar bro.


Maybe, but Chinese made vlog will be taken as propaganda. Some people worship White Master, I can't change their belief. Slavery in modern days is mind control instead of physical.

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## Itachi

viva_zhao said:


> His name is yantong1980 which I guess he was born in 1980 not YangTong. Gosh, at least read carefully before pointing finger.



Still a Chinese name, with the g or not. Maybe you should read a bit more carefully before quoting me. 



viva_zhao said:


> Some vloggers are dishonest and funded by CIA.



While others are paid by the CCP/CPC. Be sure to mention the other side of the coin too. 



viva_zhao said:


> . Some people worship White Master, I can't change their belief. Slavery in modern days is mind control instead of physical.



Being open minded doesn't translate to being a "White Worshipper". 

But then again, why do I see videos of Chinese dancing to Indian and Arab music? Does that make them Indian/Arab worshipper? 

We have more hard evidence of that due to all the evidence posted by beijingdude.


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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Still in denial, is she a Muslim? Pass your mighty judgement on her.



I can't pass judgement on anyone, only God can but God does say what makes one a Muslim and what doesn't. So if you read up on it, you'll know whose a Muslim and whose not.

But yea, you can keep going around in a circle if you want to. You can't put words in my mouth.


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## fisher1

viva_zhao said:


> How can you compare a Mosque with a tomb and say it's abandon. Where is your logical please? And please don't jump into conclusion by just viewing some western videos.
> 
> Some vloggers are dishonest and funded by CIA.



I responded. My post is right next to the question by twocents you liked.


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## beijingwalker

Kashgar is the biggest Uighur pedominant city in Xinjiang, it has the largest Uighur population anywhere in China,it has many Uighur language TV and social media channels, many private Uighur channels making tons of shows , dramas and series can best represent everyday life of the average people living in Kashgar, the crews and casts are all Uighurs, the authentic taste of today's Kashgar life and culture.

Here's one of youtube channel featuring all Uighur shows, I don't read Uighur language and maybe some people here can, check them out here.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdEO9IZxfjrH9k55-Ui9cVA/videos

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> I can't pass judgement on anyone, only God can but God does say what makes one a Muslim and what doesn't. So if you read up on it, you'll know whose a Muslim and whose not.
> 
> But yea, you can keep going around in a circle if you want to. You can't put words in my mouth.


But it's you saying they are not Muslims, but they are all Uighurs, and those superstars are household Uighur names, Are those Uighurs Muslims? You said that Muslims will never do those things.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> But it's you saying they are not Muslims, but they are all Uighurs, and those superstars are household Uighur names, Are those Uighurs Muslims?



LOL You can stop with you BS....*where* did I say someone wasn't Muslim???

Again, stop putting words in my mouth. It ain't gonna work bruh.

Whether a superstar has a Uyghur name or not doesn't matter. I see many different people here in the US with a Muslim first or last name, they don't proclaim to be Muslim. Same can be said of people in China who might have Muslim names but might not be Muslim. Again, it's a case by case matter.


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## beijingwalker

At this video at 4:50, an Uighur guy runs a liquor store and all his customers are Uighurs, I heard in some Muslim countries alcohol is banned, but in Xinjiang many of them are heavy drinkers.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> LOL You can stop with you BS....*where* did I say someone wasn't Muslim???
> 
> Again, stop putting words in my mouth. It ain't gonna work bruh.
> 
> Whether a superstar has a Uyghur name or not doesn't matter. I see many different people here in the US with a Muslim first or last name, they don't proclaim to be Muslim. Same can be said of people in China who might have Muslim names but might not be Muslim. Again, it's a case by case matter.


Denial?


> Itachi said: ↑
> I was going through the thread and saw this lol....Muslims don't act like this at all. Another fake video.

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## Itachi

Yup, big difference in calling out that Muslims don't act like that vs me saying that someone isn't a Muslim. 

Guess it's a English comprehension problem you're facing again here.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Whether a superstar has a Uyghur name or not doesn't matter. I see many different people here in the US with a Muslim first or last name, they don't proclaim to be Muslim. Same can be said of people in China who might have Muslim names but might not be Muslim. Again, it's a case by case matter.


So those Uighurs are not Muslims, good to know.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> So those Uighurs are not Muslims, good to know.



@Dubious this Chinese troll keeps putting words in my mouth. Now he's saying that I'm said that Uyghurs aren't Muslim....

Well I certainly haven't said that if you look at the past 2 pages but he's saying it. What do Forum rules say about calling a Muslim ethnicity non-Muslim?


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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> @Dubious this Chinese troll keeps putting words in my mouth. Now he's saying that I'm said that Uyghurs aren't Muslim....
> 
> Well I certainly haven't said that if you look at the past 2 pages but he's saying it. What do Forum rules say about calling a Muslim ethnicity non-Muslim?


Calling Mod again? I quoted your claim for everyone to see here.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Calling Mod again? I quoted your claim for everyone to see here.



And everyone can see your BS too. I didn't claim anything. For the past 2 pages, you're trying to say that I called Uyghurs non-Muslims, which I didn't so yes, I have the full right to bring a mod in since you're persisting on this issue for your lack of comprehension of the English language. 

Deal with it.


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## beijingwalker

You claimed that my videos are fake and Muslim girls won't do those acts, I post videos to counter your attack, why are you so upset after being proved wrong?



Itachi said:


> And everyone can see your BS too. I didn't claim anything.



That's what you claimed , right?


> Itachi said: ↑
> I was going through the thread and saw this lol....Muslims don't act like this at all. Another fake video.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> You claimed that my videos are fake and Muslim girls won't do those acts, I post videos to counter your attack, why are you so upset after being proved wrong?



No ones upset here. You posting fake videos and then posting more fake ones and then posting a superstar that doesn't even care about religion doesn't make your videos or your points true.


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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> No ones upset here. You posting fake videos and then posting more fake ones and then posting a superstar that doesn't even care about religion doesn't make your videos or your points true.


You can claim my video are fake and I can counter your claim, why calling Mod for this? and those Uighur girls can be not Muslims, I never said they are, you are accusing me for calling Uighurs not Muslims, but actually it was you who did it.



Itachi said:


> Damn, why are you so hell bent on proclaiming Uyghurs as non-Muslims??


I never did.

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## vi-va

beijingwalker said:


> At this video at 4:50, an Uighur guy runs a liquor store and all his customers are Uighurs, I heard in some Muslim countries alcohol is banned, but in Xinjiang many of them are heavy drinkers.


Central Asia countries, such as Kazakhstan drink a lot. Some Chinese working in Kazakhstan told me, Kazakhs drink like Russians.


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## Goku

viva_zhao said:


> Central Asia countries, such as Kazakhstan drink a lot. I knew some Chinese working in Kazakhstan, they drink like Russians.


Vodka ????


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## vi-va

Goku said:


> Vodka ????


Everything, including Vodka. Personally I don't like Vodka, Chinese Baijiu are much better.


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## beijingwalker

This channel could be a Turkish channel, it also has many Xinjiang separatist movement videos.

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## Goku

viva_zhao said:


> Everything, including Vodka. Personally I don't like Vodka, Chinese Baijiu are much better.


Whats chinese baijiu????beer? whiskey?


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## vi-va

Goku said:


> Whats chinese baijiu????beer? whiskey?


Off topic. Sorry. I will stop here.
The best of best
Maotai
Wuliangye


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## Arsalan

Itachi said:


> @Arsalan talking about this.


Bro i dont want to sound like i am giving any undue favors here but, COME ON! 

You are claiming the video to be fake because you say "muslims dont behave like this". We have seen our people go even beyond this haven't we? Here in Pakistan!! So thats no excuse. Yes he may be cherry picking a few videos but they cannot be discarded as fakes.

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## beijingwalker

From those videos, we can see that people live a very decent life in Kashgar, they go about with their everyday life, taking care of themselves and their families, work their jobs and run their business, most people have their own cars and nice homes.

People can argue for different reasons for Xinjiang's terrorism getting down to zero from the brink of out of control after 2009 Urumqi riot, I say the main reason is the great economic development in Xinjiang and whole China, GDP almost quadrupled and suddenly people find themselves live in a very affluent life with everything they dreamed of a decade ago, that's the key factor for the elimination of terrorism, development.

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## fisher1

055_destroyer said:


> As if you really have freedom of speeches? Does your speeches translate to justice and a fair society that everyone can progress? I don't see freedom and I don't see hope when young can't go to school, countries are left in ruined. When natural disasters struck, ordinary citizen are left hopeless and monsoon killed large number of people and government can't do anything. Is this the freedom that you are taught being better than socialist communist?
> 
> When you can't even feed yourself and left to die. What kind of freedom do you still think you can have? You don't even have the basic means to live as a normal human being when sanitation, food a,means to earn a living and housing don't even available.



How are freedom of speech and progress linked? You don't have to suppress freedom of speech and religion to progress.

And yes the freedom translates to fair and just societies. Look at how North Korea an oppressive regime is pretty much destroying the lives of its people but due to censorship, nothing gets out. 

Look at China's crackdown on Uighurs and their censorship has put a lid on this issue and the best we have are scarce sources exposing it. 

Progress has nothing to do with freedom or lack there of but a just and free society? You can't have it without freedom of speech and expression. 

I feel like this is another communist propaganda if i am being honest. "You will have poverty and bad life if we give you freedom of speech". 

I don't know how China can deny their oppression on Uighurs, just talk to a Chinese for a few minutes and their mindset comes out which is oppression is okay and it's not really oppression. Religion needs to be exterminated from those Uighurs and they were committing a wrong by having thoughts opposite to the Chinese government.

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## WarKa DaNG

Just a BS propaganda


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## beijingwalker

WarKa DaNG said:


> Just a BS propaganda


From a Turkish youtube channel

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## 055_destroyer

DeadSparrow said:


> How are freedom of speech and progress linked? You don't have to suppress freedom of speech and religion to progress.
> 
> And yes the freedom translates to fair and just societies. Look at how North Korea an oppressive regime is pretty much destroying the lives of its people but due to censorship, nothing gets out.
> 
> Look at China's crackdown on Uighurs and their censorship has put a lid on this issue and the best we have are scarce sources exposing it.
> 
> Progress has nothing to do with freedom or lack there of but a just and free society? You can't have it without freedom of speech and expression.
> 
> I feel like this is another communist propaganda if i am being honest. "You will have poverty and bad life if we give you freedom of speech".
> 
> I don't know how China can deny their oppression on Uighurs, just talk to a Chinese for a few minutes and their mindset comes out which is oppression is okay and it's not really oppression. Religion needs to be exterminated from those Uighurs and they were committing a wrong by having thoughts opposite to the Chinese government.



Freedom of speeches impair government policy for the world countries progress. Most of the third countries mass population are not ready to for democracy to understand government. Democracy and freedom of speeches are only ready for developed countries. Tell me how much has Pakistan progress under democracy and so called freedom. Nothing but more corruption and decaying of economy. Pakistanis lives are getting worse than 20 years ago.

South Korea ,Singapore and ROC Taiwan progress and developed into first world all under dicatorship before transiting Into real democracy. When most of your population can't even read and write too much. How much can they follow government policy. How do you expect the government to progress their policy when everybody has their opinion and idea?

You can say whatever you one but China has proves it policy and is moving the right direction. Billion of Chinede people benefits and that's how CPC earn their supporters. No policy can please everybody but policy that benefit most is the best policy.

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## fisher1

055_destroyer said:


> Freedom of speeches impair government policy for the world countries progress. Most of the third countries mass population are not ready to for democracy to understand government. Democracy and freedom of speeches are only ready for developed countries. Tell me how much has Pakistan progress under democracy and so called freedom. Nothing but more corruption and decaying of economy. Pakistanis lives are getting worse than 20 years ago.
> 
> South Korea ,Singapore and ROC Taiwan progress and developed into first world all under dicatorship before transiting Into real democracy. When most of your population can't even read and write too much. How much can they follow government policy. How do you expect the government to progress their policy when everybody has their opinion and idea?
> 
> You can say whatever you one but China has proves it policy and is moving the right direction. Billion of Chinede people benefits and that's how CPC earn their supporters. No policy can please everybody but policy that benefit most is the best policy.



Pakistan hasn't had real democracy since its inception. It has always been under military dictatorships. You also can't just ignore corrupt leaders whether democracy or dictatorship, if you've corrupt leaders, the country doesn't progress. 

Give me a break. China is only recently taking off. Not a few decades ago, China was worse than most poor countries today. 

And you had Mao who murdered people with his stupid experiments and then murdered some more who held him responsible for those deaths. 

That's the difference between a free society and a repressed one. Even mass murderers become heroes in repressed ones. 

If people really supported CPC, they wouldn't need to silence them and censor everything. The great firewall and all that. The tragedies and human blood that CPC spills to silence their critics is a testament to that. Every policy is the best policy if you don't have critics to begin with because people are afraid for their lives. 

Anyway, if you're happy being under a repressive government being under constant surveillance and not have a lot of freedom that the developed world takes for granted, more power to you man!.

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## Rasengan

055_destroyer said:


> No policy can please everybody but policy that benefit most is the best policy.



I agree.

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## fisher1

Nan Yang said:


> Do you think forcing women to cover up from head to toe is oppression?



I think sending people to concentration camps because they follow some religion is oppression.

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## fisher1

Nan Yang said:


> Is forcing underage women to marry men much older oppression?



Not sure what this has to do with Uighurs. 

Forcing anyone to do things they don't like is wrong. 

I don't know why you're even asking me this. This is pretty basic stuff. And before you ask me another similar question. I'll answer 

Murder is wrong. Rape is wrong. Lying is wrong. Kidnapping is wrong. 

My morality is on point!

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> How are freedom of speech and progress linked? You don't have to suppress freedom of speech and religion to progress.
> 
> And yes the freedom translates to fair and just societies. Look at how North Korea an oppressive regime is pretty much destroying the lives of its people but due to censorship, nothing gets out.
> 
> Look at China's crackdown on Uighurs and their censorship has put a lid on this issue and the best we have are scarce sources exposing it.
> 
> Progress has nothing to do with freedom or lack there of but a just and free society? You can't have it without freedom of speech and expression.
> 
> I feel like this is another communist propaganda if i am being honest. "You will have poverty and bad life if we give you freedom of speech".
> 
> I don't know how China can deny their oppression on Uighurs, just talk to a Chinese for a few minutes and their mindset comes out which is oppression is okay and it's not really oppression. Religion needs to be exterminated from those Uighurs and they were committing a wrong by having thoughts opposite to the Chinese government.


This is how average Chinese think about democracy, average Chinese are well informed and educated and know what the country needs and what they want.

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## fisher1

Synchonicist said:


> and keeps the vulnerable populations away from dangerous terrorist ideologies like jihad etc



Instead of making dumb, ignorant comments about Islamic concepts, perhaps you should educate yourself so you don't look like a fool. 

Jihad and terrorism are as far away from each other as you're from knowledge about Islam. 

I just did Jihad against you, corrected a liar who was lying about Islam. 

Two comments you made against Kashmiris and Pakistan and then Islam. Hmm?



Arsalan said:


> Bro i dont want to sound like i am giving any undue favors here but, COME ON!
> 
> You are claiming the video to be fake because you say "muslims dont behave like this". We have seen our people go even beyond this haven't we? Here in Pakistan!! So thats no excuse. Yes he may be cherry picking a few videos but they cannot be discarded as fakes.



What he meant was they're probably not good Muslims. China isn't putting bad Muslims into concentration camps but the good Muslims who actually pray, fast and follow Islam. So he stands corrected. 

Tell that girl to read Holy Quran and see how fast she gets thrown into torture chambers, even Hitler would be jealous of the effeciancy of these communists.

I like how the Chinese try to show liberals in happy poses - look we're not doing anything wrong. Like the point goes right above their head. 

China! You're being accused of torturing Muslims for practicing Islam, not for persecuting every Muslim. 

In the propaganda videos, at least show Muslims practicing Islam. Showing half naked women dancing proves that only Muslims who practise Islam are tortured. 

This is the intellect of CPC btw. Or maybe they've brainwashed Muslims so bad they can't even find anyone to act Muslim.

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> Instead of making dumb, ignorant comments about Islamic concepts, perhaps you should educate yourself so you don't look like a fool.
> 
> Jihad and terrorism are as far away from each other as you're from knowledge about Islam.
> 
> I just did Jihad against you, corrected a liar who was lying about Islam.
> 
> Two comments you made against Kashmiris and Pakistan and then Islam. Hmm?
> 
> 
> 
> What he meant was they're probably not good Muslims. China isn't putting bad Muslims into concentration camps but the good Muslims who actually pray, fast and follow Islam. So he stands corrected.
> 
> Tell that girl to read Holy Quran and see how fast she gets thrown into torture chambers, even Hitler would be jealous of the effeciancy of these communists.
> 
> I like how the Chinese try to show liberals in happy poses - look we're not doing anything wrong. Like the point goes right above their head.
> 
> China! You're being accused of torturing Muslims for practicing Islam, not for persecuting every Muslim.
> 
> In the propaganda videos, at least show Muslims practicing Islam. Showing half naked women dancing proves that only Muslims who practise Islam are tortured.
> 
> This is the intellect of CPC btw. Or maybe they've brainwashed Muslims so bad they can't even find anyone to act Muslim.


To be honest, I only care about how average people go about with their lives, not how they pray.

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## Indos

Itachi said:


> Then he should change one or both of his flags. He's not Indonesian then and should stop masquerading as one.



I think he is Chinese Indonesian.

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## bolo

WarKa DaNG said:


> Just a BS propaganda


The Chinese boys in this forum have a fondness for fair skinned Uighurs.



beijingwalker said:


> Kashgar is the biggest Uighur pedominant city in Xinjiang, it has the largest Uighur population anywhere in China,it has many Uighur language TV and social media channels, many private Uighur channels making tons of shows , dramas and series can best represent everyday life of the average people living in Kashgar, the crews and casts are all Uighurs, the authentic taste of today's Kashgar life and culture.
> 
> Here's one of youtube channel featuring all Uighur shows, I don't read Uighur language and maybe some people here can, check them out here.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdEO9IZxfjrH9k55-Ui9cVA/videos


It borderline on propaganda. It doesn't help China's cause.

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## beijingwalker

bolo said:


> The Chinese boys in this forum have a fondness for fair skinned Uighurs.
> .


Maybe you are not fair skinned and that's why you have weird mind about skin colors, the most fair skinned people are in north east China and Sichuan province, Uighurs usaully are darker than average Han Chinese.

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## CHN Bamboo

bolo said:


> Generally we know mainland Chinese like fair skinned people.





bolo said:


> If I go to China many girls will try to pick me up



Almost everyone likes fair skinned people. But fair skin is not equal to white, only a few Caucasians are fair-skinned.

Besides Caucasians are no whiter than the Chinese, and the worst thing is Caucasian people generally have very rough skin. So overall, Chinese men are better.

Whether a man is popular or not is not determined by his race, but by his appearance and character (for some women money also matters).

If you were an ugly & dull Caucasian man, no one would try to pick you up in China except prostitute.



bolo said:


> Small penises? Are you in denial also? But I have been reading how great China is in PDF. Why would any Chinese want to be with a "poor" foreigner?


Not all foreigners is poor.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> To be honest, I only care about how average people go about with their lives, not how they pray.



Yet you title your threads with what the concentration camps detainees do. They're not average people, are they? 

Pretty loaded threads mate

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## Nan Yang

DeadSparrow said:


> Not sure what this has to do with Uighurs.
> 
> Forcing anyone to do things they don't like is wrong.
> 
> I don't know why you're even asking me this. This is pretty basic stuff. And before you ask me another similar question. I'll answer
> 
> Murder is wrong. Rape is wrong. Lying is wrong. Kidnapping is wrong.
> 
> My morality is on point!


Anything wrong with the photo below?



Can those little girls grow up to be what they want to be? Hair stylist? Fashion designer? Dancer? Or be an athlete like gymnastics, swimmers, ice skaters?

Just asking.

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## nang2

Nan Yang said:


> Anything wrong with the photo below?
> 
> 
> 
> Can those little girls grow up to be what they want to be? Hair stylist? Fashion designer? Dancer? Or be an athlete like gymnastics, swimmers, ice skaters?
> 
> Just asking.


Not sure if there is anything wrong. The first impression is the productivity of the parents.

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## fisher1

Nan Yang said:


> Anything wrong with the photo below?
> 
> 
> 
> Can those little girls grow up to be what they want to be? Hair stylist? Fashion designer? Dancer? Or be an athlete like gymnastics, swimmers, ice skaters?
> 
> Just asking.



What am i, a fortune teller?


----------



## bolo

CHN Bamboo said:


> Not all foreigners is poor.


The majority of foreigners who travel to China are barely middle class in their country. They go and work as English teachers. Does that make them rich?

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## Dubious

Nan Yang said:


> Anything wrong with the photo below?


Yes, the words "some of the terrorist got away"



Nan Yang said:


> what they want to be?


Did they tell you what they want to be?

*Please stop trolling with irrelevant questions which you are trying to attribute to an ethnic group! Consider this your LAST warning!

Stick to the topic *

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## Itachi

Arsalan said:


> Bro i dont want to sound like i am giving any undue favors here but, COME ON!
> 
> You are claiming the video to be fake because you say "muslims dont behave like this". We have seen our people go even beyond this haven't we? Here in Pakistan!! So thats no excuse. Yes he may be cherry picking a few videos but they cannot be discarded as fakes.



_How _do we know that the videos he posts here portray Muslims?? They don't even look like Uyghurs. Come on bro. I know what Pakistanis and other Muslims around the world are capable of but those videos do sure look fake.



DeadSparrow said:


> What he meant was they're probably not good Muslims. China isn't putting bad Muslims into concentration camps but the good Muslims who actually pray, fast and follow Islam. So he stands corrected.
> 
> Tell that girl to read Holy Quran and see how fast she gets thrown into torture chambers, even Hitler would be jealous of the effeciancy of these communists.
> 
> I like how the Chinese try to show liberals in happy poses - look we're not doing anything wrong. Like the point goes right above their head.
> 
> China! You're being accused of torturing Muslims for practicing Islam, not for persecuting every Muslim.
> 
> In the propaganda videos, at least show Muslims practicing Islam. Showing half naked women dancing proves that only Muslims who practise Islam are tortured.
> 
> This is the intellect of CPC btw. Or maybe they've brainwashed Muslims so bad they can't even find anyone to act Muslim.



Even tho I never took it from this point of view, these statements above are also correct and I agree with them too.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Maybe you are not fair skinned and that's why you have weird mind about skin colors, the most fair skinned people are in north east China and Sichuan province, Uighurs usaully are darker than average Han Chinese.



Wrong again...






I see many light skinned people in Pakistan where your map says they should be darker.



Indos said:


> I think he is Chinese Indonesian.



He should change one of his flags then since he has both as Indonesian.


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## Indos

Itachi said:


> He should change one of his flags then since he has both as Indonesian.



I dont think so bro, he is Indonesian so he can have both flags. If you notice in PDF, both Indonesian Chinese and Malaysian Chinese always use their country flag. They are quite nationalistic, just like Arab Indonesian in PDF if any I believe never use Arab flag. Furthermore, Indonesian are diverse, only 88 percent are Muslim so it is understandable that some are not supportive with Ugyur people.

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## WarKa DaNG

bolo said:


> The Chinese boys in this forum have a fondness for fair skinned Uighurs.


Hahahaha, straight as an arrow



beijingwalker said:


> From a Turkish youtube channel


We all know what is happening there, whether the channel is from Turkey or even a Pakistani one whole world knows your truth

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## Brainsucker

Indos said:


> I dont think so bro, he is Indonesian so he can have both flags. If you notice in PDF, both Indonesian Chinese and Malaysian Chinese always use their country flag. They are quite nationalistic, just like Arab Indonesian in PDF if any I believe never use Arab flag. Furthermore, Indonesian are diverse, only 88 percent are Muslim so it is understandable that some are not supportive with Ugyur people.



Yes, whatever we are native Indonesian, Chinese descendant, Nikkei, Arab descendant, Indian descendant; we are all Indonesian

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## Indos

Brainsucker said:


> Yes, whatever we are native Indonesian, Chinese descendant, Nikkei, Arab descendant, Indian descendant; we are all Indonesian



Thats right bro, Indonesia is the name of the country, inside it there are Malay, Javanese, Chinese, Arab, Papuan, Indian, even mixed people among them, etc.

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## Clutch

Nan Yang said:


> Anything wrong with the photo below?
> 
> 
> 
> Can those little girls grow up to be what they want to be? Hair stylist? Fashion designer? Dancer? Or be an athlete like gymnastics, swimmers, ice skaters?
> 
> Just asking.



Of course. Why not.

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## oprih

Glad to see so many Muslim countries supporting this wonderful initiative by China. Well done to the Chinese government for taking care of its citizens well.

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## j20blackdragon

37 countries have written a letter to the U.N. supporting China's Xinjiang policy.

Algeria, Angola, Belarus, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Comoros, Congo, Cuba, North Korea, Congo, Eritrea, Gabon, Laos, Myanmar, Nigeria , Philippines, Russia, Somalia, South Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Togo, Cambodia, Oman, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan, Turkmenistan, Kuwait, Cameroon and Bolivia.

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## Nilgiri

j20blackdragon said:


> 37 countries have written a letter to the U.N. supporting China's Xinjiang policy.
> 
> Algeria, Angola, Belarus, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Comoros, Congo, Cuba, North Korea, Congo, Eritrea, Gabon, Laos, Myanmar, Nigeria , Philippines, Russia, Somalia, South Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Togo, Cambodia, Oman, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan, Turkmenistan, Kuwait, Cameroon and Bolivia.



Turkey? @Dai Toruko @damm1t 

Iran? Afghanistan? (Interesting that persian sphere not giving you support on it)

Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan? (Supposedly their ethnic ppl are also supposedly in some camps in Xinjiang?)

Indonesia? (Most populous nation of muslims) @Indos 

Bangladesh?

Looks like you just got only some arab + gulfie oil "votes" from OIC world.

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## beijingwalker

Nilgiri said:


> Turkey? @Dai Toruko @damm1t
> 
> Iran? Afghanistan? (Interesting that persian sphere not giving you support on it)
> 
> Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan? (Supposedly their ethnic ppl are also supposedly in some camps in Xinjiang?)
> 
> Indonesia? (Most populous nation of muslims) @Indos
> 
> Bangladesh?
> 
> Looks like you just got only some arab + gulfie oil "votes" from OIC world.


They didn't supoort the west either, so based on your logic, the west only gets the support fromt the west while China all over the world across all continents.

Kind of wonder why India didn't join the west this time..

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## j20blackdragon

Nilgiri said:


> Turkey? @Dai Toruko @damm1t



We got Turkey's support earlier this month. Thank you for your concern. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1146000903901765632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1145996481310146561

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## Nilgiri

j20blackdragon said:


> We got Turkey's support earlier this month. Thank you for your concern.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1146000903901765632
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1145996481310146561



Where is there any mention in these tweets of Xinjiang and the policies implemented there?

@Islamic faith&Secularism @Nein ....this dude thinks pleasantries on state level visit = full support for xinjiang policies. 

But where is the affirmation vote by Turkey when push comes to shove?


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## Nike

Indonesia dont meddle on other countries internal policies, except Palestina-Isreael issue (unfortunetaly)

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## barjo

Nilgiri said:


> Turkey? @Dai Toruko @damm1t
> 
> Iran? Afghanistan? (Interesting that persian sphere not giving you support on it)
> 
> Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan? (Supposedly their ethnic ppl are also supposedly in some camps in Xinjiang?)
> 
> Indonesia? (Most populous nation of muslims) @Indos
> 
> Bangladesh?
> 
> Looks like you just got only some arab + gulfie oil "votes" from OIC world.


We took lesson from aceh, papua and timor don't mind anothers domestic country issue, for palestine is kind of legacy from non block, asia afrika policy that Soekarno already did, but we prefer neutrality like Soeharto on new era rein, dont bother them, if we are not being bother

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## Nein

Nilgiri said:


> Where is there any mention in these tweets of Xinjiang and the policies implemented there?
> 
> @Islamic faith&Secularism @Nein ....this dude thinks pleasantries on state level visit = full support for xinjiang policies.
> 
> But where is the affirmation vote by Turkey when push comes to shove?



I support and love my uygur brothers lets be honest. Turkey is not going to go to war with China.

The reason why Turkey is also not going fully into China's internal problems because China does not go into Turkey's internal problems.

Pushing China away does not help Turkey at all especially in a precarious region like the Middle East.

Erdogan is actually right Turkey and China's relations date back centuries. Ottoman Empire's made muskets made it into China while Chinese silk and other resources like gunpowder made its way into Turkey.

The west constantly bickers about Turkey all the time you do not get that with China. Look at this way China deals with other countries in a pragmatic way while the West constantly bickers.

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## Indos

Nilgiri said:


> Turkey? @Dai Toruko @damm1t
> 
> Iran? Afghanistan? (Interesting that persian sphere not giving you support on it)
> 
> Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan? (Supposedly their ethnic ppl are also supposedly in some camps in Xinjiang?)
> 
> Indonesia? (Most populous nation of muslims) @Indos
> 
> Bangladesh?
> 
> Looks like you just got only some arab + gulfie oil "votes" from OIC world.



Indonesia government will not support Chinese handle on Xinjiang since many Islam organization have express its resentment on the issue. Our foreign minister has also called Chinese ambassador to question about Chinese handling on Uighyur.

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## Islamic faith&Secularism

Nilgiri said:


> Where is there any mention in these tweets of Xinjiang and the policies implemented there?
> 
> @Islamic faith&Secularism @Nein ....this dude thinks pleasantries on state level visit = full support for xinjiang policies.
> 
> But where is the affirmation vote by Turkey when push comes to shove?



Higly cencored and propaganda area does only waste my time, therefore , i do not want to be in the most useless section in the PDF... the title of this thread proves my point.

The world order needs to balance the current statue quo, and, deal with the One obsession.

The One obsession desperately seeks for customers to feed its own obsessive regime and people; however, the one obsession is so deep that they cannot even see what is done to Muslim Turk parents and their kids in East Turkestan will hunt them for decades to come intellectually,morally, religously and physically by the rest of the world especially Turk and Muslim geographies... just like Hitler even though admitted and compensated.

Btw, The one obsession has no values and hollinesses, therefore, you will not achieve to reach a common point with those indoctrinated and drained ''bodies'' with no souls... friendly advice do not waste time with them.

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## fisher1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1149801298511839232
The expression on Uighurs face if they could get to know about this would be like 

With friends like these, who needs enemies? 

But humanity still has hope and this world hasn't become hell yet. 22 countries spoke against the oppression just not a single Muslim one. 
https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/07/10/un-unprecedented-joint-call-china-end-xinjiang-abuses

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## LeGenD

The era of FITNA has dawned in which MONEY is the GOD and everything is for sale now including soul for the right price under the garb of 'interests'.

Hypocrisy and selective judgement galore.

New flood will come - painful smoke that will engulf the entire world in the last era before the hour.

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## God Parshuram

DeadSparrow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1149801298511839232
> The expression on Uighurs face if they could get to know about this would be like
> 
> With friends like these, who needs enemies?
> 
> But humanity still has hope and this world hasn't become hell yet. 22 countries spoke against the oppression just not a single Muslim one.
> https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/07/10/un-unprecedented-joint-call-china-end-xinjiang-abuses



The Imuslim brotherhood is totally political ideology and has nothing to do with either Muslim or their human rights. Actually it was not expected also. Neither they have spoken in the past nor they will do that in future till China is very strong.


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## Umair Nawaz

But can these Western Judo Christian Countries really talk abt Muslims to begin with? given that their own hands r deep in their blood with millions of millions killed of Muslims since this so called war on terror launched in 2001?

This is a message to the west itself, nobody cares nor believes u anymore, certainly nobody wants to be part of yr China Containment Policy and yr own agendas against them.

Western isolation viz a viz China is now showing up.....Thats the reality check we were long waiting for these westerners to realize for good.

Sun has set on western civilization! its just that they r learning it the hard way.

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## fisher1

Umair Nawaz said:


> But can these Western Judo Christian Countries really talk abt Muslims to begin with? given that their own hands r deep in their blood with millions of millions of Muslims since this so called war on terror launched in 2001?
> 
> This is a message to the west itself, nobody cares nor believes u anymore, certainly nobody wants to be part of yr China Containment Policy and yr own agendas against them.
> 
> Western isolation viz a viz China is now showing up.....Thats the reality check we were long waiting for these westerners to realize for good.
> 
> Sun has set on western civilization! its just that they r learning it the hard way.



Hold your horses.

US has condemned the Indian treatment of Kashmiris and agree human rights violations take place there. So has UK.

So does that mean they're doing propaganda against Indians and nothingiis happening in Kashmir?

Why the hypocrisy when it comes to China?

Oppression is oppression brother. Whether it's done in Kashmir, Xinjiang or Palestine. 

Tell me has India ever admitted to oppressing Kashmiris? Has Israel ever? What kind of fool's heaven do you live in where you think China will admit to its genocide of Muslims?

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## Umair Nawaz

DeadSparrow said:


> Hold your horses.
> 
> US has condemned the Indian treatment of Kashmiris and agree human rights violations take place there. So has UK.
> 
> So does that mean they're doing propaganda against Indians and nothingiis happening in Kashmir?
> 
> Why the hypocrisy when it comes to China?


 u really buy those symbolic things?

i have never seen their so called activists ever talking abt it nor abt Palestinian Muslims. While we all saw how quickly things happened in South Sudan and East Taimur.

What yr talking about is called Lollypop nothing else. India and Israel are doing what they do without any fear or a semblance of reprecausations.

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## masterchief_mirza

Thanks OP for your opinion. Duly noted. Even Erdogan - more related to uighurs by virtue of Turkic descent than any other Muslim or non-Muslim - has made it clear just this month that a solution to any outstanding difficulties is possible and that moreover, non-interested parties should not exploit this issue to push an anti-China agenda.



Umair Nawaz said:


> u really buy those symbolic things?
> 
> i have never seen their so called activists ever talking abt it nor abt Palestinian Muslims. While we all saw how quickly things happened in South Sudan and East Taimur.
> 
> What yr talking about is called Lollypop nothing else. India and Israel are doing what they do without any fear or a semblance of reprecausations.


Absolutely nailed it. Parties for independence and teary eyed CNN reports over south Sudan and east Timor - those great little basket case nations. 

Not sure how much longer Kashmir has to wait.

And what nonsense that the USA or UN will ever bother pushing for a solution to Kashmir issue. It is purely a case of Pakistan generating enough geopolitical influence to force the issue through, no less than this will work.

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## War Thunder

Umair Nawaz said:


> But can these Western Judo Christian Countries really talk abt Muslims to begin with? given that their own hands r deep in their blood with millions of millions of Muslims since this so called war on terror launched in 2001?
> 
> This is a message to the west itself, nobody cares nor believes u anymore, certainly nobody wants to be part of yr China Containment Policy and yr own agendas against them.
> 
> Western isolation viz a viz China is now showing up.....Thats the reality check we were long waiting for these westerners to realize for good.
> 
> Sun has set on western civilization! its just that they r learning it the hard way.





A completely irrelevant post, using a completely irrelevant use of logic or should I say lack of logic?

-Muslims get victimized
-Some one speaks about them
-People supposed to speak about them, don't support the one who speaks about them but rather stand in support of the oppressor
-And then there are illogical people who construct an equation out of it, and blaming the west for standing up for human rights of Muslims, just because the dictatorship are following their own economic interests and their way to power?

Yes the west has their own agenda, but does it really take so much of an effort to see what is logical and what is right in a situation?

Where is your solution to the 1 million Muslims who are suffering? Or "Screw them", just because their freedom and rights to live as they wish are no longer in fashion anymore? And we will take the side of the oppressor just because its more beneficial to us?

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## fisher1

Umair Nawaz said:


> u really buy those symbolic things?
> 
> i have never seen their so called activists ever talking abt it nor abt Palestinian Muslims. While we all saw how quickly things happened in South Sudan and East Taimur.
> 
> What yr talking about is called Lollypop nothing else. India and Israel are doing what they do without any fear or a semblance of reprecausations.



These symbolic things and lollipop are hard to come by for Uighurs from Muslim nations. 

Your logic is strange to me. So then tell me what has Pakistan done for Kashmir? What have we done for them except do lip service and "lollipop and symbolic things" and polish our politics.


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## masterchief_mirza

War Thunder said:


> A completely irrelevant post, using a completely irrelevant use of logic or should I say lack of logic?
> 
> -Muslims get victimized
> -Some one speaks about them
> -People supposed to speak about them, don't support the one who speaks about them but rather stand in support of the oppressor
> -And then there are illogical people who construct an equation out of it, and blaming the west for standing up for human rights of Muslims, just because the dictatorship are following their own economic interests and their way to power?
> 
> Yes the west has their own agenda, but does it really take so much of an effort to see what is logical and what is right in a situation?
> 
> Where is your solution to the 1 million Muslims who are suffering? Or "Screw them", just because their freedom and rights to live as they wish are no longer in fashion anymore? And we will take the side of the oppressor just because its more beneficial to us?


Actually the point of such a post is that it highlights the SELECTIVITY of western interventions. East Timor, Kosovo, south Sudan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, xinjiang... western pseudoliberals are not actually interested in human rights as they are selective in their approach. And they make idiots out of the people who blindly follow their agenda.

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## Umair Nawaz

Thi


DeadSparrow said:


> These symbolic things and lollipop are hard to come by for Uighurs from Muslim nations.
> 
> Your logic is strange to me. So then tell me what has Pakistan done for Kashmir? What have we done for them except do lip service and "lollipop and symbolic things" and polish our politics.


kaka g! Pakistan has done a lot for Kashmir its just those things dont make into news....and im a Kashmiri myself from District Bagh AJK.

Dont talk abt things u have no idea about! Even Erdogan - more related to uighurs by virtue of Turkic descent than any other Muslim or non-Muslim - has made it clear just this month that a solution to any outstanding difficulties is possible and that moreover, non-interested parties should not exploit this issue to push an anti-China agenda.

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## masterchief_mirza

I wouldn't have any problem if such folks simply said "hey we wanna break up China, hence we support Uighur separatists".... However they pretend to care about human rights as the basis for their intervention, when there is as much evidence to counter their narrative as there is in favour of their narrative over human rights. China has solved the terrorist problem and at the same time there is evidence that uighurs standard of living has improved dramatically. So what are these pseudoliberals bleating about exactly, when as per their own standards of "human rights", their buddies in Israel and India are worsening things for Palestinians and Kashmiris respectively??

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## fisher1

masterchief_mirza said:


> Thanks OP for your opinion. Duly noted. Even Erdogan - more related to uighurs by virtue of Turkic descent than any other Muslim or non-Muslim - has made it clear just this month that a solution to any outstanding difficulties is possible and that moreover, non-interested parties should not exploit this issue to push an anti-China agenda.
> 
> 
> Absolutely nailed it. Parties for independence and teary eyed CNN reports over south Sudan and east Timor - those great little basket case nations.
> 
> Not sure how much longer Kashmir has to wait.
> 
> And what nonsense that the USA or UN will ever bother pushing for a solution to Kashmir issue. It is purely a case of Pakistan generating enough geopolitical influence to force the issue through, no less than this will work.



That's not the argument. What's with the strawman-ing arguments. 

He said the West is in no position to condemn China and has an agenda so we cannot believe them as their hands are full of Muslim blood. 

But boy, do every Pakistani him included cheer up when the same West ie USA speaks up against India on Kashmir issues and it's irrelevant that their hands are full of Muslim blood. 

Why the hypocrisy when it comes to China? 

What saddens me the most is Muslims of all people viciously defend the Zalimeen and condemn the people who speak up against oppression.


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## masterchief_mirza

The Israeli pm no less now states openly that Palestinians are genetically excluded from Israel. He openly states that Palestinians have no genetic right to live in their lands and homes. Seriously. Wtf! He is laying down a prelude to forthcoming genetic, cultural or ethnic cleansing and pseudoliberals jump up and down over China.

This is the issue I have with western commentators who claim human rights as the basis for their dramas. Just come out and state clearly you wish to dismember China, instead of the false pretence, because then these commentators are rightly flagged up for double standards.



DeadSparrow said:


> That's not the argument. What's with the strawman-ing arguments.
> 
> He said the West is in no position to condemn China and has an agenda so we cannot believe them as their hands are full of Muslim blood.
> 
> But boy, do every Pakistani him included cheer up when the same West ie USA speaks up against India on Kashmir issues and it's irrelevant that their hands are full of Muslim blood.
> 
> Why the hypocrisy when it comes to China?
> 
> What saddens me the most is Muslims of all people viciously defend the Zalimeen and condemn the people who speak up against oppression.


No sir I don't cheer up when the USA or UN or any of these frauds "speak up for Kashmir" because I am aware it is a fraud. Only Kashmir and pk can help Kashmiris. If USA or UN say anything remotely pro-Kashmir, I simply applaud it as a brief act of trolling against India but we are all well aware it has ZERO substance.

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## fisher1

masterchief_mirza said:


> The Israeli pm no less now states openly that Palestinians are genetically excluded from Israel. He openly states that Palestinians have no genetic right to live in their lands and homes. Seriously. Wtf! He is laying down a prelude to forthcoming genetic, cultural or ethnic cleansing and pseudoliberals jump up and down over China.
> 
> This is the issue I have with western commentators who claim human rights as the basis for their dramas. Just come out and state clearly you wish to dismember China, instead of the false pretence, because then these commentators are rightly flagged up for double standards.



Once again, that's irrelevant to the discussion.

The Muslim holocaust in China is real.

What West have done or do in other areas is irrelevant to the very horrible oppression China is doing.

And sadly this is a tactic that Pro-China people are using.

Issue of Uighurs come up. Oh look how West has done horrible to Muslims therefore, we can conclude that they're lying about Uighurs and have an agenda to dismantle China.

That's a very weak way to defend Chinese oppression.

These two are separate issues and one doesn't refute or prove another.


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## beijingwalker

Thank all the Muslim countries for their adamant support of China, screw the western propaganda, China is unstoppable, they eventually have to come back to this reality.

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## Umair Nawaz

War Thunder said:


> A completely irrelevant post, using a completely irrelevant use of logic or should I say lack of logic?
> 
> -Muslims get victimized
> -Some one speaks about them
> -People supposed to speak about them, don't support the one who speaks about them but rather stand in support of the oppressor
> -And then there are illogical people who construct an equation out of it, and blaming the west for standing up for human rights of Muslims, just because the dictatorship are following their own economic interests and their way to power?
> 
> Yes the west has their own agenda, but does it really take so much of an effort to see what is logical and what is right in a situation?
> 
> Where is your solution to the 1 million Muslims who are suffering? Or "Screw them", just because their freedom and rights to live as they wish are no longer in fashion anymore? And we will take the side of the oppressor just because its more beneficial to us?


this uygur thing is mostly exaggerated.......mostly from usual suspects like BBC etc....

and u need to read my post again, this isnt what im talking abt..... im talking abt their own credibility, the ones who r inventors of this Anti Muslim and Islam attitude! Ever Since Crusades fought 1000 years ago to Spain happened 500 years ago to Colonialism followed afterwards to Israel's inception to the Afghan Jihad to this war on Terror. And now to the New Zealand terrorist Attack where the attacker had filmed it and live streamed on his facebook account and 51 people had died there and 9 were Pakistanis! most from one Nationality in that attack.

And now these same western judochristian countries have come here to talk abt China and Uighurs with us, who had no history of any anti Muslim activity ever in their civilizational history, but now are brainwashed themselves after seeing their western media who has consistently created this deeply entranched hatred of Islam and Muslims in the Whole World just look at Myanmar, Mainland India, Latin America, Australia, New Zealand even Japan! Now any non muslim and non western citizen seeing such media, what u think he is be thinking abt Islam? since their media has global reach and has global presence through internet and now they expect us to comply with them? HOW LAUGHABLE!

This Hatred of Islam is REAL IN WEST! and nobody but them are responsible for that

What have they done for Muslims to begin with? what is their own credibility to begin with? NOBODY IS STUPID IN THIS WORLD ANYMORE!

THEY DESTROYED THEIR CREDIBILITY AND NOW THEY R SEEN AS OUR ENEMIES! NOW NOBODY GIVE A F ABOUT THEM OR WHAT THEY SAY. THEY NEED TO LOOK INWARDS AND ITS THEM NOBODY ELSE WHO REQUIRE A COMPLETE TRANSFORMATION FROM WITHIN!

THEY HAVE BROUGHT THIS DAY ON THEMSELVES NOBODY ELSE CAN BE BLAMED FOR. AS FOR WORLD IS CONCERN, THEY KNOW SUN HAS SET ON WESTERN CIVILIZATION, AND NOW THEY ARE ALSO FEELING ISOLATED AND LEARNING IT THE HARD WAY.

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## CAN_TR

The smell of hypocrisy,... disgusting.

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## Umair Nawaz

DeadSparrow said:


> That's not the argument. What's with the strawman-ing arguments.
> 
> He said the West is in no position to condemn China and has an agenda so we cannot believe them as their hands are full of Muslim blood.
> 
> *But boy, do every Pakistani him included cheer up when the same West ie USA speaks up against India on Kashmir issues and it's irrelevant that their hands are full of Muslim blood. *
> 
> Why the hypocrisy when it comes to China?
> 
> What saddens me the most is Muslims of all people viciously defend the Zalimeen and condemn the people who speak up against oppression.


sorry mister! i never cheer abt UN or USA report abt Kashmir or whatever!

As i said! u have no idea what yr talking about! i know how International Relations Work! i never give two hoots abt Symbolic gestures, they never impressed me! 

I look for concrete and REAL things

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## beijingwalker

*What did the western block do when this happened? Dozens of people were killed in broad day light.*

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## Ghost 125

its all BS, there is no opression of muslims in China.

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## Umair Nawaz

CAN_TR said:


> The smell of hypocrisy,... disgusting.


there is saying in Farsi language, which goes as PROVE YR LOYALTY FIRST THEN CLAIM YR SHARE IN INHERITANCE!

Do u think, we cant see where this World Uyghur Congress is based at or whatever name of it is? Who is their pay master? Isnt that what Gullen does of FETO? arnt US his pay masters too where he is based in?

REMEMBER! these westerners judo christians dont actually care abt Muslims or any human rights, they r doing it for their own goals and objectives in mind, and r just using us Muslims as a pawn.

But Good thing is that, now nobody believes in them!

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## fisher1

Umair Nawaz said:


> And now these same western judochristian countries have come here to talk abt China and Uighurs with us, who had no history of any anti Muslim activity ever in their civilizational history



Have you ever bothered to learn the history before making such claims?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_China

You're also deluded that West is in some danger. China is not posing any existential threat to West.

Remember this verse of Holy Quran.

'O ye who believe! Be ye staunch in justice, witnesses for Allah, even though it be against yourselves or (your) parents or (your) kindred, whether (the case be of) a rich man or a poor man, for Allah is nearer unto both (them ye are). So follow not passion lest ye lapse (from truth) and if ye lapse or fall away, then lo! Allah is ever Informed of what ye do.
Surah An-Nisa (4:135)

Don't let your hatred of West blind you and become a supporter of Zalimeen.


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## War Thunder

masterchief_mirza said:


> Actually the point of such a post is that it highlights the SELECTIVITY of western interventions. East Timor, Kosovo, south Sudan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, xinjiang... western pseudoliberals are not actually interested in human rights as they are selective in their approach. And they make idiots out of the people who blindly follow their agenda.



I don't disagree to that mate. But the question is, what should I follow? The hypocrisy of my own country and other Muslim states then? And should I justify the hypocrisy by questioning the authenticity of those who actually did something "we" should have done?

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## Umair Nawaz

DeadSparrow said:


> Have you ever bothered to learn the history before making such claims?
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_China
> 
> You're also deluded that West is in some danger. China is not posing any existential threat to West.
> 
> Remember this verse of Holy Quran.
> 
> 'O ye who believe! Be ye staunch in justice, witnesses for Allah, even though it be against yourselves or (your) parents or (your) kindred, whether (the case be of) a rich man or a poor man, for Allah is nearer unto both (them ye are). So follow not passion lest ye lapse (from truth) and if ye lapse or fall away, then lo! Allah is ever Informed of what ye do.
> Surah An-Nisa (4:135)
> 
> Don't let your hatred of West blind you and become a supporter of Zalimeen.




Sunshine!!! start learning International Relations and Strategic Studies to know why west shivers in the name of China

Wikipedia is NOT a source!!!! History of Islam is rather old yes....and in that period small little incidents may have happened yes but when u read history inorder to analyse it so u learn from it, u read and study it as a whole not by taking one or two incidents or a few incidents.

Whats happening right now in China is of a vast and bigger scale that has direct bearing on what west as been propagating since past 19 years.

Plz read my post fuly. I have explained it there.......

and about topic; Do u think, we cant see where this World Uyghur Congress is based at or whatever name of it is? Who is their pay master? Isnt that what Gullen does of FETO? arnt US his pay masters too where he is based in?

REMEMBER! these westerners judo christians dont actually care abt Muslims or any human rights, they r doing it for their own goals and objectives in mind, and r just using us Muslims as a pawn.

Even Erdogan - more related to uighurs by virtue of Turkic descent than any other Muslim or non-Muslim - has made it clear just this month that a solution to any outstanding difficulties is possible and that moreover, non-interested parties should not exploit this issue to push an anti-China agenda.

But Good thing is that, now nobody believes in them!

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## War Thunder

Umair Nawaz said:


> this uygur thing is mostly exaggerated.......mostly from usual suspects like BBC etc....
> 
> and u need to read my post again, this isnt what im talking abt..... im talking abt their own credibility, the ones who r inventors of this Anti Muslim and Islam attitude! Ever Since Crusades fought 1000 years ago to Spain happened 500 years ago to Colonialism followed afterwards to Israel's inception to the Afghan Jihad to this war on Terror. And now to the New Zealand terrorist Attack where the attacker had filmed it and live streamed on his facebook account and 51 people had died there and 9 were Pakistanis! most from one Nationality in that attack.
> 
> And now these same western judochristian countries have come here to talk abt China and Uighurs with us, who had no history of any anti Muslim activity ever in their civilizational history, but now are brainwashed themselves after seeing their western media who has consistently created this deeply entranched hatred of Islam and Muslims in the Whole World just look at Myanmar, Mainland India, Latin America, Australia, New Zealand even Japan! Now any non muslim and non western citizen seeing such media, what u think he is be thinking abt Islam? since their media has global reach and has global presence through internet and now they expect us to comply with them? HOW LAUGHABLE!
> 
> This Hatred of Islam is REAL IN WEST! and nobody but them are responsible for that
> 
> What have they for Muslims to begin with? what is their own credibility to begin with? NOBODY IS STUPID IN THIS WORLD ANYMORE!
> 
> THEY DESTROYED THEIR CREDIBILITY AND NOW THEY R SEEN AS OUR ENEMIES! NOW NOBODY GIVE A F ABOUT THEM OR WHAT THEY SAY. THEY NEED TO LOOK INWARDS AND ITS THEM NOBODY ELSE WHO REQUIRE A COMPLETE TRANSFORMATION FROM WITHIN!
> 
> THEY HAVE BROUGHT THIS DAY ON THEMSELVES NOBODY ELSE CAN BE BLAMED FOR. AS FOR WORLD IS CONCERN, THEY KNOW SUN HAS SET ON WESTERN CIVILIZATION, AND NOW THEY ARE ALSO FEELING ISOLATED AND LEARNING IT THE HARD WAY.





Exaggerated? So it's fine to force people to brain washing camps as long as you don't "exaggerate it"?. And to not allow the wives and children of men who married Uighur girls?
Are the people complaining about their wives and children held in camps in China are all fake as well?

What exactly is the research of every one who is calling it exaggerated except blindly accepting the Chinese or pro Chinese narrative? What exactly are the facts on the ground?

West can go to hell for all I care. Who cares about the west?
My question is the actual topic and the lives of the people involved. I don't claim to know hard facts on the ground but if there is even 1% chance of this being true, then I will atleast carry enough faith to call an oppressor an oppressor, even if its the lowest state of faith.

I would rather have my government give me justification and reasoning for showing support to China on this matter, and convince me on it. Other nations on the list don't need to, because they are dictators, and my state got itself counted amongst them. Funny...



Ghost 125 said:


> its all BS, there is no opression of muslims in China.





Ok Einstein. You seem so convinced with whatever "logic" you seem to follow.
Care to throw in some facts to convince me as well?

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## CAN_TR

Umair Nawaz said:


> there is saying in Farsi language, which goes as PROVE YR LOYALTY FIRST THEN CLAIM YR SHARE IN INHERITANCE!
> 
> Do u think, we cant see where this World Uyghur Congress is based at or whatever name of it is? Who is their pay master? Isnt that what Gullen does of FETO? arnt US his pay masters too where he is based in?
> 
> REMEMBER! these westerners judo christians dont actually care abt Muslims or any human rights, they r doing it for their own goals and objectives in mind, and r just using us Muslims as a pawn.
> 
> But Good thing is that, now nobody believes in them!



So after your logic, what India does to Kashmiris and their Muslim population, Israel does to Palestinians, and Myanmar does to Rohingya is also based on Western pay masters and the world should ignore it, right?

Buddy you can't cry about Kashmiris etc. and play "three monkeys" when it comes to Uyghurs, that is HYPOCRISY.
What in Sincan happens is not a Turkic or Muslim issue it's a humanitarian issue first.

China called Islam "mentally illness", just saying before you bombard me again with non relevant examples, only to please your business friends.

I'm out.

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## Umair Nawaz

War Thunder said:


> Exaggerated? So it's fine to force people to brain washing camps as long as you don't "exaggerate it"?. And to not allow the wives and children of men who married Uighur girls?
> Are the people complaining about their wives and children held in camps in China are all fake as well?
> 
> What exactly is the research of every one who is calling it exaggerated except blindly accepting the Chinese or pro Chinese narrative? What exactly are the facts on the ground?
> 
> West can go to hell for all I care. Who cares about the west?
> My question is the actual topic and the lives of the people involved. I don't claim to know hard facts on the ground but if there is even 1% chance of this being true, then I will atleast carry enough faith to call an oppressor an oppressor, even if its the lowest state of faith.
> 
> I would rather have my government give me justification and reasoning for showing support to China on this matter, and convince me on it. Other nations on the list don't need to, because they are dictators, and my state got itself counted amongst them. Funny...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok Einstein. You seem so convinced with whatever "logic" you seem to follow.
> Care to throw in some facts to convince me as well?



So why is western *** on fire then? 

Do u think, we cant see where this World Uyghur Congress is based at or whatever name of it is? Who is their pay master? Isnt that what Gullen does of FETO? arnt US his pay masters too where he is based in?


Even Erdogan - more related to uighurs by virtue of Turkic descent than any other Muslim or non-Muslim - has made it clear just this month that a solution to any outstanding difficulties is possible and that moreover, non-interested parties should not exploit this issue to push an anti-China agenda. There r far bigger things in play here mister!

But Good thing is that, now nobody believes in them!

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## Ghost 125

War Thunder said:


> Ok Einstein. You seem so convinced with whatever "logic" you seem to follow.
> Care to throw in some facts to convince me as well?


no i dont care, i am not here to convince you and i definitely dont argue with people who takes an insulting hostile stance at the start of conversation


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## beijingwalker

The OP is calling for boycotting Chinese goods? How many of your are gonna do this? Funny last time this boycotting Chinese goods campaign was made by India for China's support of Pakistan in UNSC, a couple of months later, some guys from Pakistan again are calling for boycotting Chinese goods. Do you really think China fears this kind of dumb childplays?

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## War Thunder

Ghost 125 said:


> no i dont care, i am not here to convince you and i definitely dont argue with people who takes an insulting hostile stance at the start of conversation





Oh I am pretty hostile to any statement that starts and ends with words like "its all BS, there is no opression of muslims in China."
Without adding any logic or reasoning to back it up.

A person who is convinced with logic, will have the logic to explain it to others. 
A blind follower or whose mind is controlled by whatever others say about an issue and he/she can't be bothered with independent research to convince their own selves is some one to be hostile about and feel sorry for

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## beijingwalker

CAN_TR said:


> So after your logic, what India does to Kashmiris and their Muslim population, Israel does to Palestinians, and Myanmar does to Rohingya is also based on Western pay masters and the world should ignore it, right?
> 
> Buddy you can't cry about Kashmiris etc. and play "three monkeys" when it comes to Uyghurs, that is HYPOCRISY.
> What in Sincan happens is not a Turkic or Muslim issue it's a humanitarian issue first.
> 
> China called Islam "mentally illness", just saying before you bombard me again with non relevant examples, only to please your business friends.
> 
> I'm out.


Always want to ask why didn't Turkey join the western block to heckle China?

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## War Thunder

beijingwalker said:


> The OP is calling for boycotting Chinese goods? How many of your are gonna do this? Funny last time this boycotting Chinese goods campaign was made by India for China's support of Pakistan in UNSC, a couple of months later, some guys from Pakistan again are calling for boycotting Chinese goods. Do you really think China fears this kind of dumb childplays?




My problem is not with China or Chinese people. My problem is with any kinds of oppression, and if China is the oppressor than its no different for me than the Israelis in Palestine or indian in Kashmir.


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## beijingwalker

Some posters reaally talk tough here, but how many of you guys will follow the OP's advocacy to boycott Chinese porducts?



War Thunder said:


> My problem is not with China or Chinese people. My problem is with any kinds of oppression, and if China is the oppressor than its no different for me than the Israelis in Palestine or indian in Kashmir.


China is not, they live a better life than most Muslims in Muslim majority countries, but if you just believe China is an oppressor anyway, you do have a problem with China and the Chinese people.

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## Umair Nawaz

CAN_TR said:


> So after your logic, what India does to Kashmiris and their Muslim population, Israel does to Palestinians, and Myanmar does to Rohingya is also based on Western pay masters and the world should ignore it, right?
> 
> Buddy you can't cry about Kashmiris etc. and play "three monkeys" when it comes to Uyghurs, that is HYPOCRISY.
> What in Sincan happens is not a Turkic or Muslim issue it's a humanitarian issue first.
> 
> China called Islam "mentally illness", just saying before you bombard me again with non relevant examples, only to please your business friends.
> 
> I'm out.


read post no.17 where i have talked abt it in 2nd paragraph. Im talking abt their own credibility........no Palestinian or Kashmiri leadership lives in west its a fact....thats why they dont talk abt it. 

they r talking abt islam as mental illness because of what the western media had been projecting Islam since 2001 at the Global Scale. Where even ''other'' countries like Myanmar, Srilanka r into Islamophobia too

And abt humanity, what im saying is that these westerners dont care abt it to begin with, they r just doing it so they can use our sentiments against them to fulfill their agenda. They want to use us as their pawn!

Thats what im saying.

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## beijingwalker

In recent months, boycotting Chinese goods seem to become a very popular catchphrase, India, US and now PDF..


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## Dubious

CAN_TR said:


> The smell of hypocrisy,... disgusting.


Sadly your own president didnt voice out...That gave the rest a reassurance it is ok..

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## INS_Vikrant

This just shows world respect raw strength and not some stupid soft power. We must be focused on increasing our economic and military might, then all these shenanigans on kashmir will drop dead.


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## beijingwalker

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> This just shows world respect raw strength and not some stupid soft power. We must be focused on increasing our economic and military might, then all these shenanigans on kashmir will drop dead.


No, they will come alive, truth or lies, with western anti India propaganda if your strength is about rivalling the west. that's waht happens to China , The eye of the western propaganda storm.

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## Crystal-Clear

LeGenD said:


> The era of FITNA has dawned in which MONEY is the GOD and everything is for sale now including soul for the right price under the garb of 'interests'.
> 
> Hypocrisy and selective judgement galore.
> 
> New flood will come - painful smoke that will engulf the entire world in the last era before the hour.


big word for a yankee lover .


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## INS_Vikrant

beijingwalker said:


> No, they will come alive, truth or lies, with western anti India propaganda if your strength is about rivalling the west. that's waht happens to China , The eye of the western propaganda storm.



West would continue with their propaganda, nothing stopping them. I was talking about Muslim countries, though we are too strong for them to even think of taking any military action against us, without getting their asses bombed to extinction. We aren't politically and economically big enough to stop these dogs from constant barking on Kashmir. Which we must focus on achieving.


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## Taimur Khurram

beijingwalker said:


> China is unstoppable



And then the Turks came along, and the Tarim Basin hasn't been the same since.

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## barjo

Indos said:


> Indonesia government will not support Chinese handle on Xinjiang since many Islam organization have express its resentment on the issue. Our foreign minister has also called Chinese ambassador to question about Chinese handling on Uighyur.


Its JK vice president move, not outhorized by all the parlement and presiden it self, he try to buy simpaty from the muslim majority for vote, and his background offcourse as "Muslim Politician", all the JK move is not purely social, or "humanatarian". He also support some hard line movement and politician. Typical right wing

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## beijingwalker

Taimur Khurram said:


> And then the Turks came along, and the Tarim Basin hasn't been the same since.


Don't take it out of context, I was talking about US containment of China.


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## Type59

China using its economic strength to persuade countries to sign letter. In the long term china will suffer from "bullying" foreign policy.


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## CAN_TR

Dubious said:


> Sadly your own president didnt voice out...That gave the rest a reassurance it is ok..



He is a Hyprocrite aswell.



beijingwalker said:


> Always want to ask why didn't Turkey join the western block to heckle China?



Same reason why Turkey never joined western block to "heckle" the Soviets.
We were always a country with own interests and own opinions.

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## beijingwalker

CAN_TR said:


> Same reason why Turkey never joined western block to "heckle" the Soviets.
> We were always a country with own interests and own opinions.


Good, all normal countries are.



Type59 said:


> China using its economic strength to persuade countries to sign letter. In the long term china will suffer from "bullying" foreign policy.


Some of the leading nations signing the letter are Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar.. they are some of the richest guys on this planet, they don't really need Chinese money.

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## Dubious

CAN_TR said:


> He is a Hyprocrite aswell.


Well, we cant do much at national level if that is mask each wants to have!


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## LeGenD

Crystal-Clear said:


> big word for a yankee lover .




Here: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/brit...erence-on-press-freedom.626295/#post-11616270

I do not have selective judgement actually - I try not to be a hypocrite.

China is a totalitarian society where state is supreme. They don't care about Islam or religious freedom. This isn't to say that Muslims do not do well in China (many do) but what is happening in Xinjiang is indeed a matter of grave concern.

The so-called Muslim Ummah should have unanimously supported the call for UN-led investigation in Xinjiang in regards to treatment of Muslims in there.

Saab bikkey huey hain - spineline shameless leaders. You expect these buffoons to sort out Kashmir and Palestine?  Allah Almighty does not help hypocrites.

Now tell me about any Western country which have put Muslims in concentration camps and relabelled them as education centers.

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## War Thunder

beijingwalker said:


> Some posters reaally talk tough here, but how many of you guys will follow the OP's advocacy to boycott Chinese porducts?
> 
> 
> China is not, they live a better life than most Muslims in Muslim majority countries, but if you just believe China is an oppressor anyway, you do have a problem with China and the Chinese people.



Are they not being put in so called "reforming centers"? 
Is every one of them roaming free in their neighborhood?
Are there no children being forced into special education centers and their mothers not allowed to meet them?

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## beijingwalker

War Thunder said:


> Are they not being put in so called "reforming centers"?
> Is every one of them roaming free in their neighborhood?
> Are there no children being forced into special education centers and their mothers not allowed to meet them?


Correction centers are everywhere in China, same as those in US, Much much more Han Chinese are in those centers than all minorities added up, they are preventive facilities for those who are security risks and commited minor offences. As for what happens in Xinjiang, I guess it's a mixture of correction centers and vocational training schools, some of them were made to be there and some are willingly join to learn a skill, it could be something intergrated to China's nation wide poverty alleviation program which Xi made his personal pledge to eliminate poverty by 2020, it's his career keynote and education and vocational training is a big part of it.

As for how many are there, some western media says 1 million, some say 3 million, those are jokes not even worth refuting.


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## Goku

Chinese dont want to cleanse Uighurs they just want to sinicize these people i.e islam with Chinese characteristics.
Hypocrisy is Muslims are killing muslims in Yemen , Iraq , Libya , Syria , Afghanistan yet u attack China on Muslim oppression lol @beijingwalker


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## fisher1

Umair Nawaz said:


> Sunshine!!! start learning International Relations and Strategic Studies to know why west shivers in the name of China



Shivers? Not really. I wasn't denying the power of China and threat it poses to West but it's not the end of the world for them is my point. Anyway, i digress. Shouldn't even have touched on this. 




Umair Nawaz said:


> Wikipedia is NOT a source!!!! History of Islam is rather old yes....and in that period small little incidents may have happened yes but when u read history inorder to analyse it so u learn from it, u read and study it as a whole not by taking one or two incidents or a few incidents.



So now you backtrack from your statement that Chinese have never done anything against Islam? 




Umair Nawaz said:


> and about topic; Do u think, we cant see where this World Uyghur Congress is based at or whatever name of it is? Who is their pay master? Isnt that what Gullen does of FETO? arnt US his pay masters too where he is based in?
> 
> REMEMBER! these westerners judo christians dont actually care abt Muslims or any human rights, they r doing it for their own goals and objectives in mind, and r just using us Muslims as a pawn.



Have I said anything about West loving Muslims? I even agree with you they've shed Muslim blood.

I agree that US has an agenda. US isn't a fan of China, no doubt. 

But that still doesn't mean China isn't doing oppression on Uighurs. It's just convenient for US that they found this. 

There are undeniable facts and even statements from China itself now that prove this is a horrible horrible reality for Uighurs. 

If you think it's all lies then prove it. Show evidence to the contrary. Stop hiding behind West hates Muslims.




Umair Nawaz said:


> Even Erdogan - more related to uighurs by virtue of Turkic descent than any other Muslim or non-Muslim - has made it clear just this month that a solution to any outstanding difficulties is possible and that moreover, non-interested parties should not exploit this issue to push an anti-China agenda.


This is the 4th or 5th time you've said this. It doesn't matter, Erdogan isn't Muslims Khalifa. He spoke against Chinese and i respect him immensely for that then he got bullied and changed his stance slightly. Not a good thing but at least he spoke against it unlike the other Islamic leaders who reject it outright or feign ignorance.



beijingwalker said:


> The OP is calling for boycotting Chinese goods? How many of your are gonna do this? Funny last time this boycotting Chinese goods campaign was made by India for China's support of Pakistan in UNSC, a couple of months later, some guys from Pakistan again are calling for boycotting Chinese goods. Do you really think China fears this kind of dumb childplays?



My intention for boycott isn't to hurt China. I doubt i can even convince a single person. 

It's for me only because i feel like i would be helping China commit this on Uighurs even if my contribution is extremely extremely insignificant.


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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> If you think it's all lies then prove it. Show evidence to the contrary. Stop hiding behind West hates Muslims.
> .



I know you won't believe them, but it won't hurt to check them out.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfQpJutJNG6Mpz0GD8Cmcig/videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK9Ucky97ozdCwgL-bGM43Q/videos



DeadSparrow said:


> My intention for boycott isn't to hurt China. I doubt i can even convince a single person.
> 
> It's for me only because i feel like i would be helping China commit this on Uighurs even if my contribution is extremely extremely insignificant.


Good, good luck with your personal China boycott 

You should be sincere and honest, nothing made in China, don't lie to yourself.


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> As for what happens in Xinjiang, I guess it's a mixture of correction centers and vocational training schools, some of them were made to be there and some are willingly join to learn a skill



This is interesting. 

China denied these pretty strongly as Western propaganda until Western propaganda showed satellite images of concentration camps increasing and expanding. 

Then China's stance changed. Oh these? Oh these are vocational training centres. 

At the end of all this, China will eventually admit it and be like we did it but we're not doing this anymore, okay?



beijingwalker said:


> I know you won't believe them, but it won't hurt to check them out.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfQpJutJNG6Mpz0GD8Cmcig/videos
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK9Ucky97ozdCwgL-bGM43Q/videos
> 
> 
> Good, good luck with your personal China boycott
> 
> You should be sincere and honest, nothing made in China, don't lie to yourself.



Recently made new unknown channels with 1-2 views, oh not suspicious at all 

Thanks. I don't use much of Chinese products anyway so it's not that hard so far.


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## obj 705A

NATO dogs can only bark while the Chinese caravan moves on.
for those crying over 37 contries supporting China... the voice of 22 whitey country is worth more than the voice of 37 countries that mostly arent white, and then they say they arent Racist, white supremacy has always been at the heart of western political thought.

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> This is interesting.
> 
> China denied these pretty strongly as Western propaganda until Western propaganda showed satellite images of concentration camps increasing and expanding.
> .


China never said there are concentration camps in Xinjiang and China never said there are not correction and training, vocational schools in Xinjiang.

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## masterchief_mirza

War Thunder said:


> My problem is not with China or Chinese people. My problem is with any kinds of oppression, and if China is the oppressor than its no different for me than the Israelis in Palestine or indian in Kashmir.


Sir, with respect, this is the point. You cannot just brush all claims of "oppression of Muslim minorities" with the same brush. There is ample evidence of uighurs being uplifted, having improved living standards, and becoming wealthier since China began its anti-separatism drive. Their religious rights are equivalent to those of other religious groups in China - we have to accept that religion is a private matter there. This is totally different to Israel in Palestine, whose very DNA and right to ownership of their land and legacy is under threat from Netanyahu; likewise Kashmir, where the historic legal provisos for Kashmiri Muslims are threatened, not to mention the wave of anti-Muslim, anti-kashmiri and anti-beef-eating sentiment in india. Israel treats its Muslim minority as BENEATH the Jews. India treats its Muslim minority as BENEATH Hindus - congress and Gandhi were aberrations, RSS and BJP are the real face of hindustan. They have an agenda against MUSLIMS and against Muslims having any strength, whereas China has an agenda against separatism and are more than happy for Muslim communities to prosper. I would compare China's approach to that of Russia in the Caucasus. Israel and India are quite different entities.

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## American Pakistani

DeadSparrow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1149801298511839232
> The expression on Uighurs face if they could get to know about this would be like
> 
> With friends like these, who needs enemies?
> 
> But humanity still has hope and this world hasn't become hell yet. 22 countries spoke against the oppression just not a single Muslim one.
> https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/07/10/un-unprecedented-joint-call-china-end-xinjiang-abuses


Muslims have 2 pending issues for half a century i.e. Kashmir and Palestine. How about west solve that first just to beg Muslim world approval? 

South Sudan got independence within few months just cuz they were not Muslims but Kashmir and Palestine has been lingering and been left in the hands of beasts for decades, and they act surprise about Xinjiang province of China. Spare me from this hypocrisy, I'm not one is those foolish Muslim who will fall for this western and Indian political game of dividing Muslim world with China, a population of more than 3 billion people world wide.

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## BL33D

DeadSparrow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1149801298511839232
> The expression on Uighurs face if they could get to know about this would be like
> 
> With friends like these, who needs enemies?
> 
> But humanity still has hope and this world hasn't become hell yet. 22 countries spoke against the oppression just not a single Muslim one.
> https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/07/10/un-unprecedented-joint-call-china-end-xinjiang-abuses


Its gonna be a tough time for you to get people to understand. People generally would reject and deny anything that opposes their beliefs. They will cherrypick what to believe and what not to. I hope your post makes some people see the hypocrisy.

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## Chhatrapati

Lock this anti China thread. Muslims are fine in China, the only thing I found strange was banning Islamic names for kids like Islam, Muhammed, Madena etc... and Chinese muslims happily complied. 

Ask the Chinese deputy mission to Pakistan (Muhammad) Lijian Zhao, who dropped Muhammed in his name and is now simply Lijian Zhao.

If the victims don't feel they are oppressed, leave them be. They even hold training camps. And recently, BBC went there and shot a video. All the people claimed they are happy (of course they were being monitored, but it's for their own safety).


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## beijingwalker

Chhatrapati said:


> Ask the Chinese deputy mission to Pakistan (Muhammad) Lijian Zhao, who dropped Muhammed in his name and is now simply Lijian Zhao.


The most common Uighur name for men is 买买提, everyone in China knows this, I really doubt Muhammad was ever an Uighur name, in Uighur it's Mehmet 买买提


买买提 in different languages
【突厥语/波斯语】محمد Persian
【突厥语罗马字】Mehmet Latin
【维吾尔语】مۇھەممەد Uighur
【阿拉伯罗马字】Muhammad


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## Chhatrapati

beijingwalker said:


> The most common Uighur name for men is 买买提, everyone in China knows this, I really doubt Muhammad was ever an Uighur name, in Uighur it's Mehmet 买买提
> 
> 
> 买买提 in different languages
> 【突厥语/波斯语】محمد Persian
> 【突厥语罗马字】Mehmet Latin
> 【维吾尔语】مۇھەممەد Uighur
> 【阿拉伯罗马字】Muhammad


People should be free to name their kids whatever they want. It's not a matter of state affairs. This excuse is pathetic, so you have no words for Muhammad is that why you banned those names? Or because it's not a Chinese name?


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## maximuswarrior

Chhatrapati said:


> People should be free to name their kids whatever they want. It's not a matter of state affairs. This excuse is pathetic, so you have no words for Muhammad is that why you banned those names? Or because it's not a Chinese name?



When will India stop oppressing Kashmiri Muslims?

On a different note, notice how vicious and repetitive this Western propaganda has become against China. The Western world keeps begging Islamic nations, where they have supported dictators and killed millions of Muslims, to be on their side to isolate and condemn China. These so-called champions of Muslims and human rights advocates are nowhere to be found in Iraq, Palestine and Kashmir. It is clear as daylight why these hypocrites literally beg on their knees to Islamic nations to condemn China.

Luckily there is still some level of sanity left. The Islamic nations won't condemn China for the sake of appeasing Western powers.

China and Islamic cultures have a lot in common. More so than the Western culture.

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## beijingwalker

Chhatrapati said:


> People should be free to name their kids whatever they want. It's not a matter of state affairs. This excuse is pathetic, so you have no words for Muhammad is that why you banned those names? Or because it's not a Chinese name?


I don't know why they have to ban a name which doesn't exist in China, so this information itself is highly suspicious, I don't know if you can name your children whatever you want in China or not, no one I know did that, so I guess there must be certain laws concerning naming new borns.


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## Globenim

LeGenD said:


> I do not have selective judgement actually - I try not to be a hypocrite.


So once upon a time when the "West" was once again unquestionably acting like total hypocrites and exactly opposite to the dishonest platitudes you preach and complain about over others (i.e. "non-Westerners") all the time, and you went out of your way to conceede some individual actually might have made a "questionable" decision, you want to tell us that suddenly clears you of being selective and hypocrite after dumping thousands of completely disingenious, biased and unobjective posts parotting, endorsing and desperatey defending the most blatant pro "Western" and exessively anti Chinese propaganda?

lol now *thats *some selectiveness.

Sound more like some trivial token post you only made because you are selfaware of your blatant hypocrisy and bias, that is only emphasized by the constant dishonesty and mental gymnastics you engage in to attack Western adversaries like China or defend the absurdest attacks on them.

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## Chhatrapati

beijingwalker said:


> I don't know why they have to ban a name which doesn't exist in China, so this information itself is highly suspicious, I don't know if you can name your children whatever you want in China or not, no one I know did that, so I guess there must be certain laws concerning naming new borns.


haha yeah sure. That's why the day China announce the ban of names, Chinese diplomat dropped the Muhammed in his name. Totally unrelated. How long can you close your eyes and say the world is dark?


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## LeGenD

Globenim said:


> So once upon a time when the "West" was once again unquestionably acting like total hypocrites and exactly opposite to the dishonest platitudes you preach and complain about over others (i.e. "non-Westerners") all the time, and you went out of your way to conceede some individual actually might have made a "questionable" decision, you want to tell us that suddenly clears you of being selective and hypocrite after dumping thousands of completely disingenious, biased and unobjective posts parotting, endorsing and desperatey defending the most blatant pro "Western" and exessively anti Chinese propaganda?
> 
> lol now *thats *some selectiveness.
> 
> Sound more like some trivial token post you only made because you are selfaware of your blatant hypocrisy and bias, that is only emphasized by the constant dishonesty and mental gymnastics you engage in to attack Western adversaries like China or defend the absurdest attacks on them.


Genius, I just posted a single example.

I have called out on Western hypocrisy in numerous posts throughout my posting history here. But I am not in the mood to prove to you anything. I neither serve US nor China.

And I am not interested in having an argument about treatment of Muslims in Xinjiang with Chinese members here. You will not understand, and will stick with your biases.

This isn't about fighting China or singling it out from among the countries who are oppressing Muslims; this is about Muslim Ummah having selective judgement in regards to assessing issues of Muslims around the world. This will have implications for issues of Muslims in other regions. Obviously others will take notes.

As for any issue, it can have a diplomatic solution. So sleep well.

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## masterchief_mirza

Chhatrapati said:


> Lock this anti China thread. Muslims are fine in China, the only thing I found strange was banning Islamic names for kids like Islam, Muhammed, Madena etc... and Chinese muslims happily complied.
> 
> Ask the Chinese deputy mission to Pakistan (Muhammad) Lijian Zhao, who dropped Muhammed in his name and is now simply Lijian Zhao.
> 
> If the victims don't feel they are oppressed, leave them be. They even hold training camps. And recently, BBC went there and shot a video. All the people claimed they are happy (of course they were being monitored, but it's for their own safety).



https://gulfnews.com/opinion/op-eds/renaming-spree-erasing-muslim-heritage-in-india-1.60422571

Look who is giving a lecture on respect for Islamic etymology.

An Indian politician recently wanted to drop his Muslim sounding name as he felt it compromised his family's safety in brahministan. Indian actors in years gone by have saffronised their names to improve their marketability. 

India has supreme form in erasing Muslim heritage and names. 

I have never heard of such things about the name Mohammed in China. For linguistic reasons Mohammed is contracted to Ma in hui community, but not because of some state sanctioned conspiracy against the word Mohammed, or some security risk of being called Mohammed.

Allahabad. Not pragyakargakargarmanagam.

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## Globenim

LeGenD said:


> Genius, I just posted a single example.
> 
> I have called out on Western hypocrisy in numerous posts throughout my posting history here.


You mean "Called out" like that whitewashing of blatant hypocrisy in the organized "Western" propaganda as some individuals mishappen "decission", rather than a big organized farce, you just tried to pass of as proof of being "impartial"? lol

Well, genius, now I quoted two examples contradicting what you try to suggest your one token post disproves.



LeGenD said:


> And I am not interested in having an argument about treatment of Muslims in Xinjiang with Chinese members here.
> You will not understand, and will stick with your biases.


Sound like you just want to disregard the biggest group who has interest to refute and call out your biased and dishonest Western propaganda lies and distorted narratives aimed against them, because your agenda isnt about any sort of treatment of Muslims in China and you don't care what really is happens to them or not.

Its funny how you manage to flip flop between accussing others of bias and and denying selective judgement on your own, only to express the most blatant bias and selective judgement a second later or at the same time.



LeGenD said:


> This isn't about fighting China;


Yeah like you usual almost daily routine of unobjective China bashing is what was it again? "Just tying to be objective"? lol.

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## fisher1

Reading the responses of some Pakistanis in this thread, i am sure of one thing. 

If India was giving money to Pakistan, these people would call Kashmir and what's happening in India as India's problem too and call Kashmiris separatists who should be dealt with iron fist. 

Despicable. 

India and Israel should take note. The key to silencing the Muslim world and buying the souls of majority of Muslims is money. Just throw some money and see how their eyes go blind.

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## LeGenD

Globenim said:


> "Called out" like that whitewashing of hyporcrisy in the organized Western propaganda as some individuals mishappen "decission" you just tried to pass of as proof of being "impartial".
> 
> Well, genius, now I quoted two examples contradicting what you try to suggest your single backed up token post disproves.
> 
> 
> Sound like you just want to disregard the biggest group who has interest to refute and call out your biased and dishonest Western propaganda lies and distorted narratives, because your agenda isnt about any sort of treatment of Muslims in China and dont care what really happens to them.
> 
> Its funny how you manage to flip flop between accussing others of bias and and denying selective judgement on your only to express the most blatant bias and selective judgement a second later or at the same time.
> 
> 
> Yeah like you usual almost daily routine of unobjective China bashing is what was it again? "Just tying to be objective"? lol.


Western hypocrisy is not an excuse for ignoring Chinese hypocrisy in regards to treatment of Muslims. But you are not smart enough to realize this.


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## mike2000 is back

CAN_TR said:


> So after your logic, what India does to Kashmiris and their Muslim population, Israel does to Palestinians, and Myanmar does to Rohingya is also based on Western pay masters and the world should ignore it, right?
> 
> Buddy you can't cry about Kashmiris etc. and play "three monkeys" when it comes to Uyghurs, that is HYPOCRISY.
> What in Sincan happens is not a Turkic or Muslim issue it's a humanitarian issue first.
> 
> China called Islam "mentally illness", just saying before you bombard me again with non relevant examples, only to please your business friends.
> 
> I'm out.


To be honest, China has been one of Pakistan's staunchest ally for a while now and they have provided the country with alot of aid and equipments/support etc. So i think it's normal for Pakistanis to have a favourable impression of China and to consequently support them. That's the rational thing to do.
However if you want to look at things from a religious perspective then that's something else. Only those that are abit too religious would look past their country's interests and go ahead to publicly condemn China for oppressing their Islamic brethren , since for them Islam transcends borders and has no borders. This is also a major problem, since the argument of 'their country their rules' becomes null and void. Therein also lies the problem with religion and religious scriptures and their followers, since if you want to be an ardent follower and believer that lives by the scriptures, then you will be in alot of trouble/conflict with many countries out there(including ones that are your allies/close to your interests. lol), so you will have to get involved in their own internal affairs(especially when it concerns your own brothers in religion). Therein lies the dilemma.


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## masterchief_mirza

DeadSparrow said:


> Reading the responses of some Pakistanis in this thread, i am sure of one thing.
> 
> If India was giving money to Pakistan, these people would call Kashmir and what's happening in India as India's problem too and call Kashmiris separatists who should be dealt with iron fist.
> 
> Despicable.
> 
> India and Israel should take note. The key to silencing the Muslim world and buying the souls of majority of Muslims is money. Just throw some money and see how their eyes go blind.


Try it. We'll take the money AND Kashmir.

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## mike2000 is back

DeadSparrow said:


> Reading the responses of some Pakistanis in this thread, i am sure of one thing.
> 
> If India was giving money to Pakistan, these people would call Kashmir and what's happening in India as India's problem too and call Kashmiris separatists who should be dealt with iron fist.
> 
> Despicable.
> 
> India and Israel should take note. The key to silencing the Muslim world and buying the souls of majority of Muslims is money. Just throw some money and see how their eyes go blind.


LOL Many humans are like that i believe. I don't see why you should be surprise. Money, wealth, interests make the world go round in this era.

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## Globenim

LeGenD said:


> Western hypocrisy is not an excuse for ignoring Chinese hypocrisy in regards to treatment of Muslims. But you are not smart enough to realize this.


Your Western lies, hypocrite ones at that, are not an excuse to call China "hypocrite" in regards to anything. But we know you are smart enough to know that and just struggling to keep the farce behind this anti China propaganda up with dishonest flailing and doubling down with the bullshit.


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## vostok

I suppose there are no opression of Muslims in China, there are some troubles with Uighurs. Many of them were brainwashed by pseudo-Islamic terrorists organizations, same as people in Afganistan, Lybia, Sirya, Russian Northern Caucasus, former Soviet Central Asia and other places. I am glad China dealing with those poor people by education them that terrorism is not the best way to spend their lifes - it is better to get good profession and become successful and rich member of society.
And I am glad that many countries rise their word of support of Chinese noble attempts to stop those people from becoming a fuel of Western backed pseudo-Islamic destroying of nations and states.

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## fisher1

mike2000 is back said:


> LOL Many humans are like that i believe. I don't see why you should be surprise. Money, wealth, interests make the world go round in this era.



I am surprised because growing up, all i have heard is oh look the oppression on Kashmiris, oh look the oppression on Palestinians. Then to see the cold shoulder the same people give to Uighurs is just shocking, it's the height of hypocrisy. 

Go around in this forum and you will see Pakistanis fighting Indians and crying for Kashmiris but it's all just a facade, isn't it? They don't really give a crap about Muslims. 

If you're against oppression, you will speak up against it doesn't matter who is doing it. 

I will admit i am relatively new to this forum and this kind of hypocrisy is new to me. Was i a effin idiot to think Pakistani would stand up of all people, their religion orders them too. 

I guess not even a nuclear bomb can give courage to the cowardly. Disappointing.


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## masterchief_mirza

DeadSparrow said:


> I am surprised because growing up, all i have heard is oh look the oppression on Kashmiris, oh look the oppression on Palestinians. Then to see the cold shoulder the same people give to Uighurs is just shocking, it's the height of hypocrisy.
> 
> Go around in this forum and you will see Pakistanis fighting Indians and crying for Kashmiris but it's all just a facade, isn't it? They don't really give a crap about Muslims.
> 
> If you're against oppression, you will speak up against it doesn't matter who is doing it.
> 
> I will admit i am relatively new to this forum and this kind of hypocrisy is new to me. Was i a effin idiot to think Pakistani would stand up of all people, their religion orders them too.
> 
> I guess not even a nuclear bomb can give courage to the cowardly. Disappointing.


Is it possible that giving a "crap about Muslims" isn't quite so simplistic as you assert? Maybe wanting Muslims to not be tricked and exploited is also a way of supporting them?

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## mike2000 is back

vostok said:


> I suppose there are no opression of Muslims in China, there are some troubles with Uighurs. Many of them were brainwashed by pseudo-Islamic terrorists organizations, same as people in Afganistan, Lybia, Sirya, Russian Northern Caucasus, former Soviet Central Asia and other places. I am glad China dealing with those poor people by education them that terrorism is not the best way to spend their lifes - it is better to get good profession and become successful and rich member of society.
> And I am glad that many countries rise their word of support of Chinese noble attempts to stop those people from becoming a fuel of Western backed pseudo-Islamic destroying of nations and states.


You made some good points. But how does the West radicalise Chinese Uygurs muslims? lol The West isn't even Islamic. Moreover, do you mean other muslim countries like Turkey who have been supportive of the Uygurs issues are Pseudo Muslim countries?lol
Or you mean Saudi Arabia is the Western backed Pseudo Muslim country fuelling the Uygurs? Because if that's what you mean then you couldn't be more wrong, just ask Chinese members on here. KSA(along with some few gulf states) has been one of the staunchest supporter of China's policies in Xijiang. Others like Indonesia who have criticised China's policies in Xijiang against the Uygurs. So are they also Western backed Pseudo Islamic country who are pushed by the West to condemn China?  etc. There are many other countries i can go on and on who have either taken China's stance, remain neutral or silent or speak up against.
So tell me exactly which countries you refer to when you say western backed Pseudo Islamic countries. Please tell me who are the 'REAL MUSLIM' countries.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

DeadSparrow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1149801298511839232
> The expression on Uighurs face if they could get to know about this would be like
> 
> With friends like these, who needs enemies?
> 
> But humanity still has hope and this world hasn't become hell yet. 22 countries spoke against the oppression just not a single Muslim one.
> https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/07/10/un-unprecedented-joint-call-china-end-xinjiang-abuses





So what? China's alliance with Pakistan is FAR MORE sacred and deeper than ANY relationship we have with ALL other non-Pakistani Muslims. China's internal matters are of no concern to outsiders.

Also, the above article is FAR TOO melodramatic. It's not as if China is killing Muslims like the americans have. The Americans have killed millions of Muslims yet the whole world has stood silent. Why are no Muslims or Muslim nations condemning the Americans for the genocide of nearly 4 million Muslims since 1990?



DeadSparrow said:


> Once again, that's irrelevant to the discussion.
> 
> The Muslim holocaust in China is real.
> 
> What West have done or do in other areas is irrelevant to the very horrible oppression China is doing.
> 
> And sadly this is a tactic that Pro-China people are using.
> 
> Issue of Uighurs come up. Oh look how West has done horrible to Muslims therefore, we can conclude that they're lying about Uighurs and have an agenda to dismantle China.
> 
> That's a very weak way to defend Chinese oppression.
> 
> These two are separate issues and one doesn't refute or prove another.






How many Uighers have been killed in this holocaust? If what you say is true then please remember to post the links to the evidence, right here. If not then it means you're being indian about the whole thing and spreading lies and extreme misinformation.

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## vostok

mike2000 is back said:


> You made some good points. But how does the West radicalise Chinese Uygurs muslims? lol The West isn't even Islamic. Moreover, do you mean other muslim countries like Turkey who have been supportive of the Uygurs issues are Pseudo Muslim countries?lol
> Or you mean Saudi Arabia is the Western backed Pseudo Muslim country fuelling the Uygurs? Because if that's what you mean then you couldn't be more wrong, just ask Chinese members on here. KSA(along with some few gulf states) has been one of the staunchest supporter of China's policies in Xijiang. Others like Indonesia who have criticised China's policies in Xijiang against the Uygurs. So are they also Western backed Pseudo Islamic country who are pushed by the West to condemn China?  etc. There are many other countries i can go on and on who have either taken China's stance, remain neutral or silent or speak up against.
> So tell me exactly which countries you refer to when you say western backed Pseudo Islamic countries. Please tell me who are the 'REAL MUSLIM' countries.


I have written "pseudo-Islamic organizations" not countries. May be you do not know but West have supported some ugly pseudo-Islamic organizations in Afganistan, in Libya, in Syria, in former Yugoslavia, in Russian Muslim regions, and in Western China, too.

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## Crystal-Clear

LeGenD said:


> Here: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/brit...erence-on-press-freedom.626295/#post-11616270
> 
> I do not have selective judgement actually - I try not to be a hypocrite.
> 
> China is a totalitarian society where state is supreme. They don't care about Islam or religious freedom. This isn't to say that Muslims do not do well in China (many do) but what is happening in Xinjiang is indeed a matter of grave concern.
> 
> The so-called Muslim Ummah should have unanimously supported the call for UN-led investigation in Xinjiang in regards to treatment of Muslims in there.
> 
> Saab bikkey huey hain - spineline shameless leaders. You expect these buffoons to sort out Kashmir and Palestine?  Allah Almighty does not help hypocrites.
> 
> Now tell me about any Western country which have put Muslims in concentration camps and relabelled them as education centers.


whatever you say . the fact is . 
China didnt attack any Muslim countries and slaughter millions . 
but usa did/doing that either directly or indirectly .

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## Nilgiri

Nein said:


> I support and love my uygur brothers lets be honest. Turkey is not going to go to war with China.
> 
> The reason why Turkey is also not going fully into China's internal problems because China does not go into Turkey's internal problems.
> 
> Pushing China away does not help Turkey at all especially in a precarious region like the Middle East.
> 
> Erdogan is actually right Turkey and China's relations date back centuries. Ottoman Empire's made muskets made it into China while Chinese silk and other resources like gunpowder made its way into Turkey.
> 
> The west constantly bickers about Turkey all the time you do not get that with China. Look at this way China deals with other countries in a pragmatic way while the West constantly bickers.



Turkey policy on it is fair for sure. All the countries that just stick to neutral position on it (i.e neither support the West, nor China "factions" at UN) to best balance the geopolitics is probably the fairest smartest policy.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

DeadSparrow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1149801298511839232
> The expression on Uighurs face if they could get to know about this would be like
> 
> With friends like these, who needs enemies?
> 
> But humanity still has hope and this world hasn't become hell yet. 22 countries spoke against the oppression just not a single Muslim one.
> https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/07/10/un-unprecedented-joint-call-china-end-xinjiang-abuses



CJ Werleman is a CIA puppet who is trying in influence the thought patterns of American Muslims. This why our Muslim politicians and “leaders” loyal to the West quote him regularly.



War Thunder said:


> Where is your solution to the 1 million Muslims who are suffering? Or "Screw them", just because their freedom and rights to live as they wish are no longer in fashion anymore? And we will take the side of the oppressor just because its more beneficial to us?



We don’t have to walk the Western blueprints to speak up for Uyghurs.

There is a time and place for everything.

We can still talk to China and resolve these differences without turning them hostile towards us.



Umair Nawaz said:


> this uygur thing is mostly exaggerated.......mostly from usual suspects like BBC etc....
> 
> and u need to read my post again, this isnt what im talking abt..... im talking abt their own credibility, the ones who r inventors of this Anti Muslim and Islam attitude! Ever Since Crusades fought 1000 years ago to Spain happened 500 years ago to Colonialism followed afterwards to Israel's inception to the Afghan Jihad to this war on Terror. And now to the New Zealand terrorist Attack where the attacker had filmed it and live streamed on his facebook account and 51 people had died there and 9 were Pakistanis! most from one Nationality in that attack.
> 
> And now these same western judochristian countries have come here to talk abt China and Uighurs with us, who had no history of any anti Muslim activity ever in their civilizational history, but now are brainwashed themselves after seeing their western media who has consistently created this deeply entranched hatred of Islam and Muslims in the Whole World just look at Myanmar, Mainland India, Latin America, Australia, New Zealand even Japan! Now any non muslim and non western citizen seeing such media, what u think he is be thinking abt Islam? since their media has global reach and has global presence through internet and now they expect us to comply with them? HOW LAUGHABLE!
> 
> This Hatred of Islam is REAL IN WEST! and nobody but them are responsible for that
> 
> What have they for Muslims to begin with? what is their own credibility to begin with? NOBODY IS STUPID IN THIS WORLD ANYMORE!
> 
> THEY DESTROYED THEIR CREDIBILITY AND NOW THEY R SEEN AS OUR ENEMIES! NOW NOBODY GIVE A F ABOUT THEM OR WHAT THEY SAY. THEY NEED TO LOOK INWARDS AND ITS THEM NOBODY ELSE WHO REQUIRE A COMPLETE TRANSFORMATION FROM WITHIN!
> 
> THEY HAVE BROUGHT THIS DAY ON THEMSELVES NOBODY ELSE CAN BE BLAMED FOR. AS FOR WORLD IS CONCERN, THEY KNOW SUN HAS SET ON WESTERN CIVILIZATION, AND NOW THEY ARE ALSO FEELING ISOLATED AND LEARNING IT THE HARD WAY.



Great post.

I salute your sound analysis.

Everything is in its own context, and this Uyghur issue is in the context of Western fears of China’s rise and its alliance with Muslims.

They fear they will lose the power to subjugate Muslims as then we have other options besides the West.

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## Umair Nawaz

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> CJ Werleman is a CIA puppet who is trying in influence the thought patterns of American Muslims. This why our Muslim politicians and “leaders” loyal to the West quote him regularly.
> 
> 
> 
> We don’t have to walk the Western blueprints to speak up for Uyghurs.
> 
> There is a time and place for everything.
> 
> We can still talk to China and resolve these differences without turning them hostile towards us.
> 
> 
> 
> Great post.
> 
> I salute your sound analysis.
> 
> Everything is in its own context, and this Uyghur issue is in the context of Western fears of China’s rise and its alliance with Muslims.
> 
> They fear they will lose the power to subjugate Muslims as then we have other options besides the West.


west got its rise only through looting resources from third world countries mostly Muslim in Colonial period! and we, the Pakistan, made them superpower by fighting the Soviet Afghan war.

And now with our success in War on Terror and Afghanistan where we defeated 49 countries alliance with Afghan Taliban and through sheer Allah's help and Mullah Umer's greater Iman, patience and vision and now through CPEC and IBOR, they r seeing their miserable deaths right infront of them.....Thats why they wanna use our Muslim sentiments for their own goals and objectives by using us as a pawn!

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

DeadSparrow said:


> It's for me only because i feel like i would be helping China commit this on Uighurs even if my contribution is extremely extremely insignificant.



Do you also boycott India, Israel, SL, US, UK, Australia, Burma, CAR, KSA, UAE, Germany, France?

These nations have done far worse things to Muslims and Muslim countries than China.



DeadSparrow said:


> If India was giving money to Pakistan, these people would call Kashmir and what's happening in India as India's problem too and call Kashmiris separatists who should be dealt with iron fist.



What a ridiculous statement.

If I remember correctly, I think you were an enemy of Imran Khan, who is much stronger on kashmir than N and PPP.



vostok said:


> I suppose there are no opression of Muslims in China, there are some troubles with Uighurs. Many of them were brainwashed by pseudo-Islamic terrorists organizations, same as people in Afganistan, Lybia, Sirya, Russian Northern Caucasus, former Soviet Central Asia and other places. I am glad China dealing with those poor people by education them that terrorism is not the best way to spend their lifes - it is better to get good profession and become successful and rich member of society.
> And I am glad that many countries rise their word of support of Chinese noble attempts to stop those people from becoming a fuel of Western backed pseudo-Islamic destroying of nations and states.



These groups like Daesh/isis are funded and supported by the West, Israel, India for political objectives in Muslim countries.

It is part of the great game being played out to undermine Muslim independence with a combination of puppet dictators and destabilizing terrorist groups fighting against strong Muslim governments (like Pakistan, Turkey, and Iran.)

Daesh are not Muslims. They don’t follow Quran and Sunnah. They are Khawarij, which condemns all Muslims as worthy of being killed for not following their leaders.

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## masterchief_mirza

mike2000 is back said:


> You made some good points. But how does the West radicalise Chinese Uygurs muslims? lol The West isn't even Islamic. Moreover, do you mean other muslim countries like Turkey who have been supportive of the Uygurs issues are Pseudo Muslim countries?lol
> Or you mean Saudi Arabia is the Western backed Pseudo Muslim country fuelling the Uygurs? Because if that's what you mean then you couldn't be more wrong, just ask Chinese members on here. KSA(along with some few gulf states) has been one of the staunchest supporter of China's policies in Xijiang. Others like Indonesia who have criticised China's policies in Xijiang against the Uygurs. So are they also Western backed Pseudo Islamic country who are pushed by the West to condemn China?  etc. There are many other countries i can go on and on who have either taken China's stance, remain neutral or silent or speak up against.
> So tell me exactly which countries you refer to when you say western backed Pseudo Islamic countries. Please tell me who are the 'REAL MUSLIM' countries.


Islamic State is the archetypal pseudo Islamic terrorist organization propped up by western, Israeli and now Indian intelligence agencies. This isn't a conspiracy theory. This is a fact.

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## Umair Nawaz

DeadSparrow said:


> Shivers? Not really. I wasn't denying the power of China and threat it poses to West but it's not the end of the world for them is my point. Anyway, i digress. Shouldn't even have touched on this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now you backtrack from your statement that Chinese have never done anything against Islam?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have I said anything about West loving Muslims? I even agree with you they've shed Muslim blood.
> 
> I agree that US has an agenda. US isn't a fan of China, no doubt.
> 
> But that still doesn't mean China isn't doing oppression on Uighurs. It's just convenient for US that they found this.
> 
> There are undeniable facts and even statements from China itself now that prove this is a horrible horrible reality for Uighurs.
> 
> If you think it's all lies then prove it. Show evidence to the contrary. Stop hiding behind West hates Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the 4th or 5th time you've said this. It doesn't matter, Erdogan isn't Muslims Khalifa. He spoke against Chinese and i respect him immensely for that then he got bullied and changed his stance slightly. Not a good thing but at least he spoke against it unlike the other Islamic leaders who reject it outright or feign ignorance.
> 
> 
> 
> My intention for boycott isn't to hurt China. I doubt i can even convince a single person.
> 
> It's for me only because i feel like i would be helping China commit this on Uighurs even if my contribution is extremely extremely insignificant.


You said ''It's just convenient for US that they found this.''

Actually thats not quit true......what im trying to convince u upon is that for their own benefit against the Chinese might and economic power, they want to use us as a pawn with this uygur issue.

As for China, when we talk to China abt this issue, which we have they say the same things which these western countries have been saying and their media which is 100% state controlled no matter what they claim it to be has been bombarding the World with for the past 19 years!

Generations have grown now in such an atmosphere mister, a child born in 2001 is now 19 years old.....in a few years he will be graduating from his university and will be doing the jobs in his governments, bureaucracy, politics, Think Tanks World organizations etc etc 

What do u think, his opinion and knee jerk reaction will always be about Islam? Have u ever thought abt things this way?

Same goes for Chinese too, western media is seen in China as well. And now its no longer abt China, this has spread now in Sri Lanka, Myanmar Latin America and so on etc etc.....

This is just not about one or two countries or a single region anymore, its now a Global phenomenon. That is why i say, these western countries need to change their materialistic profit centric and driven and resource grabbing attitude completely and for that a total transformation is needed into their societies from within for their own sake, and then reverse completely this Hatred of Islam they have spread throughout the world including China.....So that we in long run stop the Chinese realistically from doing so. 

Because let me be CLEAR HERE AINT NOBODY IS GONNA HELP THEM EVER AGAIN IN THE MUSLIM WORLD BY AND LARGE. ONLY HOPE THEY HAVE LEFT IS MERE DAESH IN AFGHANISTAN ETC OR MAYBE AL QAEDA, these r just the dirty actors they have left to play whom they can use like how a puppeteer controls his puppets.






here watch this documentary abt this trade war with China to get a proper and deeper understanding of what i have written above!

These lazy dumb and fat Americans who r used of subjugating the World and through Global Monopolistic system are now too scared to compete with China on Economic front! because they r just too used to of subjecting others and doing business through monopolies without competition. Thats why they r asking for a regime change in China (see Hong Kong) and breakup of China (Uyghur issue)......

These r their dirty ways and under the table tactics to get the job done! Now see things in this prospective!

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## masterchief_mirza

IS or Daesh routinely demand the destruction of all Muslim nation states under the false pretext of supporting a caliphate. They openly butcher Muslim groups who strive for strong independent Muslim nation states or even a true super-state, and they rarely attack non-Muslims except when they know the backlash will help their cause. Pay attention to what happens and who benefits from Daesh attacks. Look at the New developments in the subcontinent. Daesh has started attacks in Sri Lanka and Kashmir. In sl it knows the result will drive SL into India's hands and will cause problems for local Muslims. In Kashmir, under raw's direct control Daesh will attack armed freedom groups and Hindutva leaders will enjoy it as pseudomuslims do their dirty work. This is a shift in strategy learned from mossad and others. How does Daesh in the subcontinent help local muslims or the regional heavyweight (Pakistan) in any way?? Answer is: it doesn't. It does the polar opposite.

Do you think Muslims wish to live in nomad camps cut off from the world and modern technology? Do you honestly think Daesh is helping Muslims in any way?? Their idea of a caliphate is not the golden age of Andalusia or the ottomans or mughals - indeed Daesh would nuke such empires first and foremost. Daesh wants Muslims to live in tents and herd camels. This is why mossad, cia and raw love Daesh like crack cocaine. Daesh will do whatever they want, and keep Europe's, USA's and India's hands clean.

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## Umair Nawaz

bl33d said:


> Its gonna be a tough time for you to get people to understand. People generally would reject and deny anything that opposes their beliefs. They will cherrypick what to believe and what not to. I hope your post makes some people see the hypocrisy.


common, we had talked about this u know very well why and how we feel western judochristian countries talking abt ''Muslim'' issues!

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

masterchief_mirza said:


> Islamic State is the archetypal pseudo Islamic terrorist organization propped up by western, Israeli and now Indian intelligence agencies. This isn't a conspiracy theory. This is a fact.



According to Western media propaganda which they feed to their countries and all over the world, Daesh are the true evil face of Islam, and the rest of us actual Muslims are fakes and pretending to be peaceful but actually secretly want to destroy them (just like Daesh.)

In actuality, it is the normative Islamic group consensus (Sunni + Shia) which determines who is included in the Islamic polity and who is not.

We are unanimous that Daesh are Khawarij, they are Non-Muslims who don’t follow the Quran/Sunnah, and also they are responsible for murdering Hazrat Ali RA, the fourth Khalifah of Islam and cousin/son-in-law of Muhammad SAW.

Enmity between Muslims and Khawarij is more than a thousand years old, and now the West, with Israel, have revived it to fight a ‘holy’ (actually unholy) war against us.

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## Umair Nawaz

vostok said:


> I have written "pseudo-Islamic organizations" not countries. May be you do not know but West have supported some ugly pseudo-Islamic organizations in Afghanistan, in Libya, in Syria, in former Yugoslavia, in Russian Muslim regions, and in Western China, too.


East Turkestan movement, TTP, Baloch terrorists, Norther Alliance etc etc and this Uygur leadership ie World Uyghur Congress which is washington based lol

and how can we forget the English Speaking Daesh transported into Afghanistan through unmarked Western made Helicopters!!!! lol

@DeadSparrow We cant blame Chinese for that, this hatred created by west through their media which has the global reach has led the whole of humanity to this day! When we talk to Chinese about such issues which BTW we have as well, they tell us the exact same thing......This phobia has come from the ruthless and false preaching of the western media being spread consistently from the last 19 years now! in the guise of fighting War and Terror, protecting their way of life, Freedom etc etc.

What u think if a Chinese citizen, Indian Citizen, Srilankan or Myanmese Citizen sees and thinks abt Islam and Muslims itself?

These other countries had never had any bad experience with Islam and Muslims as well.....But because of these western countries and their state policies they have brainwashed the entire World to hate Islam and Muslims.
I mean look, even these Latin Americans and Hispanic people who themselves have a Muslim Background from the 800 years of Muslim rule in Spain, r also hating Muslims and Islam, because they saw that in Western TV channels or in internet propagated by these judo-christian countries.

This is the the root cause of the problem! as long as this doesnt get addressed and there isnt a social change right within the Western countries, there is no way we can deal with that. Heck! these western countries dont even teach the colonial history nor crusades history nor War on terror history to their children, then how will that ever happen realistically to begin with?

Because these ''other countries'' do not have any such history(Crusades,Colonial,war on terror etc etc) to begin with.

That is why nobody takes the western propaganda seriously anymore specially in the Muslim World, be it about China or whatever else. Regardless of it being true or not.

yaad ha, bachpann main humne aik kahani sunni the, Sher aya Sher aya wali? k kaisy aik charwaha Gaon k logo ko bewakuf banata raha k Sher aa gya ha or usski bakrian khany laga ha, or villagers jab b usski madad k lea aaty the to wo unn pr hasta tha k mainy unnhain jhoot bol k bewakuf bana lia or phir jab aik din wakai sher aa gya orr usski bakria kha gya to wo cheekhta raha gaon k logo k aagy k sher aa gya ha orr usski bakrian kha gya ha orr goan walo main sy kisi ny b usski madad nai ki q k wo yahe samjhe k wo hamesha ki tarha iss bar bhi jhoot bol raha hoga q k wo jhoota ha or sher usski saari bakria kha gya??

Yaad ha ye story??

What was the moral of that story do u remember? K jhoot bolny waly ki baat par koi yakeen nahi karta q k wo khud apni credibility kho deta ha! Jhoot k paon nahi hoty .....iss lea kabhi jhoot na bolo!!!!

Bas yahe ho raha ha China or West k darmiyan, ajj west chahe jitna b sach bolta rahe, magar saari dunya ko pta chal chuka ha k wo jhoota ha or koi uss ki baat par yakeen nahi kar raha! iss lea koi b usska sath nahi deta China k against, ye Uygur Muslaman to sirf aik bahana ha! ye tumhe b pta ha orr mujhe b pta ha k West China to destroy karna chahta ha orr ye Chinese Muslims uss ki aik Shatir sazish ha!

Bas ye asal baat ha!

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## Umair Nawaz

why do u western countries want us to be yr pawn in fighting yr battles, goals and objectives?
First in the name of establishing some tiny unnatural country like Israel made up of people from different parts of the world who dont even share anything in common but just a religious label, label because they dont even practice judaism in same manner as yr european Cousins, then making it powerful in the name of fighting ''Islamic'' terrorism, then Afghan Jihad against Soviet Union, then in the name of War on Terror? and now against China by using our Muslim sentiments?

Why are u so useless idiots that u cant even fight yr own battles yrself and r willing to die for yr own cause!

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Umair Nawaz said:


> East Turkestan movement, TTP, Baloch terrorists, Norther Alliance etc etc and this Uygur leadership ie World Uyghur Congress which is washington based lol
> 
> and how can we forget the English Speaking Daesh transported into Afghanistan through unmarked Western made Helicopters!!!! lol
> 
> @DeadSparrow We cant blame Chinese for that, this hatred created by west through their media which has the global reach has led the whole of humanity to this day! When we talk to Chinese about such issues which BTW we have as well, they tell us the exact same thing......This phobia has come from the ruthless and false preaching of the western media being spread consistently from the last 19 years now! in the guise of fighting War and Terror, protecting their way of life, Freedom etc etc.
> 
> What u think if a Chinese citizen, Indian Citizen, Srilankan or Myanmese Citizen sees and thinks abt Islam and Muslims itself?
> 
> These other countries had never had any bad experience with Islam and Muslims as well.....But because of these western countries and their state policies they have brainwashed the entire World to hate Islam and Muslims.
> I mean look, even these Latin Americans and Hispanic people who themselves have a Muslim Background from the 800 years of Muslim rule in Spain, r also hating Muslims and Islam, because they saw that in Western TV channels or in internet propagated by these judo-christian countries.
> 
> This is the the root cause of the problem! as long as this doesnt get addressed and there isnt a social change right within the Western countries, there is no way we can deal with that. Heck! these western countries dont even teach the colonial history nor crusades history nor War on terror history to their children, then how will that ever happen realistically to begin with?
> 
> Because these ''other countries'' do not have any such history(Crusades,Colonial,war on terror etc etc) to begin with.
> 
> That is why nobody takes the western propaganda seriously anymore specially in the Muslim World, be it about China or whatever else. Regardless of it being true or not.
> 
> yaad ha, bachpann main humne aik kahani sunni the, Sher aya Sher aya wali? k kaisy aik charwaha Gaon k logo ko bewakuf banata raha k Sher aa gya ha or usski bakrian khany laga ha, or villagers jab b usski madad k lea aaty the to wo unn pr hasta tha k mainy unnhain jhoot bol k bewakuf bana lia or phir jab aik din wakai sher aa gya orr usski bakria kha gya to wo cheekhta raha gaon k logo k aagy k sher aa gya ha orr usski bakrian kha gya ha orr goan walo main sy kisi ny b usski madad nai ki q k wo yahe samjhe k wo jhoota ha or sher usski saari bakria kha gya??
> 
> Yaad ha ye story??
> 
> What was the moral of that story do u remember? K jhoot bolny waly ki baat par koi yakeen nahi karta q k wo khud apni credibility kho deta ha! iss lea kabhi jhoot na bolo!!!!
> 
> Bas yahe ho raha ha China or West k darmiyan, ajj west chahe jitna b sach bolta rahe, magar saari dunya ko pta chal chuka ha k wo jhoota ha or koi uss ki baat par yakeen nahi kar raha! iss lea koi b usska sath nahi deta China k against, ye Uygur Muslaman to sirf aik bahana ha! ye tumhe b pta ha orr mujhe b pta ha k West China to destroy karna chahta ha orr ye Chinese Muslims uss ki aik Shatir sazish ha!
> 
> Bas ye asal baat ha!



Iss kahani me boht aala sabak he, agar hum samajne wale baney.

Musalman jo har jagga ghadda ke jehsey chalte he inn faasiqon ke kehney pe.

Samaj lo Kyu Quran me likha he ke faasiq ki baat kabhi na suno, ta ke tum bila waja Zulm na karo kissi pe.

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## War Thunder

masterchief_mirza said:


> Sir, with respect, this is the point. You cannot just brush all claims of "oppression of Muslim minorities" with the same brush. There is ample evidence of uighurs being uplifted, having improved living standards, and becoming wealthier since China began its anti-separatism drive. Their religious rights are equivalent to those of other religious groups in China - we have to accept that religion is a private matter there. This is totally different to Israel in Palestine, whose very DNA and right to ownership of their land and legacy is under threat from Netanyahu; likewise Kashmir, where the historic legal provisos for Kashmiri Muslims are threatened, not to mention the wave of anti-Muslim, anti-kashmiri and anti-beef-eating sentiment in india. Israel treats its Muslim minority as BENEATH the Jews. India treats its Muslim minority as BENEATH Hindus - congress and Gandhi were aberrations, RSS and BJP are the real face of hindustan. They have an agenda against MUSLIMS and against Muslims having any strength, whereas China has an agenda against separatism and are more than happy for Muslim communities to prosper. I would compare China's approach to that of Russia in the Caucasus. Israel and India are quite different entities.





Sir, with respect, what facts and proof do you have the average Uighur is doing better now? Have you heard of what the Turks have been saying? What the Indonesians are? 
I do not care how similar or different the situation is. 
If people are being forced to so called "vocational" camps. If children are being separated from mothers, and wives from their husbands. Then its "OPPRESSION" and God hates oppression, and I as a Muslim cannot say one form of oppression is better than another. I should rather question my morality and faith, if I lack the ability to decipher a wrong from the deception and lack the ability to question things and then stand on what is right.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> We don’t have to walk the Western blueprints to speak up for Uyghurs.
> 
> There is a time and place for everything.
> 
> We can still talk to China and resolve these differences without turning them hostile towards us.




You will do diplomacy with an oppressor? Will try to negotiate sense into their brains filled with nonsense and lack of understanding of anything beyond the physical world they live in?

But then again, we are a country who are so cut off from our creator than we even get bullied by the likes of Afghanistan, completely dependent on other nations for our survival...let alone trying to stand up against an oppressor be it China or any other.

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## polanski

ASIA
*37 Countries Including Large Muslim Majority Nations Support China’s Fight Against Terrorism*
Written by Adam Garrie on 2019-07-13

Pakistan, Egypt, Algeria, the UAW, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Tajikistan are among the Muslim majority countries that have signed a letter in support of China’s counter-terrorism strategy and social development model in the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. Additionally, The Philippines, Russia, Cuba, the DPRK, Angola, Togo, Belarus, Myanmar and Zimbabwe are among the 37 countries whose ambassadors have praised China’s approach to security and social harmony which aims to combat the three evils of separatism, terrorism and religious extremism through a combination of vigilant policing alongside free educational and vocational training for those who would have otherwise fallen victim to terrorist radicalisation and violence.

The global support for China’s progressive development and anti-terror model in Xinjiang is a clear indication that many nations seek to learn from China in respect of how to clamp down on extremism whilst elevating the prosperity and solidifying the social harmony of populations susceptible to terrorist infiltration.

The area that is today known as China’s Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region has for centuries been a place of political instability, warfare and has infamously played host to multiple geopolitical rivalries for a strategically located area that effectively divides east and central Asia. Located at the axis of multiple historic and contemporary trading routes, today’s Xinjiang is undergoing a period of intense economic development and social stability that has been erstwhile unknown in the modern era. To better address concerns within the wider Turkic and Muslim world regarding the contemporary state of Xinjiang, it is important to understand some of the key events in the region’s late modern history.

From the ancient period up until the 18th century, Xinjiang had been ruled by over a score of sovereigns including Han Chinese sovereigns, Mongol sovereigns, Turkic sovereigns and Turco-Mongol sovereigns. Beginning in 1759, China’s last imperial dynasty, the Qing consolidated rule over Xinjiang and oversaw demographic and cultural changes to a region where Han Chinese, Chinese Hui Muslims and Turkic Muslims shared a unique and often turbulent multi-cultural experience.

If Xinjiang’s incorporation into the Great Qing represented a late modern move towards political consolidation in the region, the contemporary history of Xinjiang begun in 1912 when China as a whole ended millennia of dynastic rule and became a Republic following the Xinhai Revolution which began the previous year.

Between 1912 and 1928, Xinjiang was paradoxically one of the more stable regions of the Republic of China. To understand why this is the case, it helps to recall that the young Republic of China experienced political shock after political shock during its first sixteen years of existence. These shocks can be summed up as follows:

*1912: Nanjing based Republican revolutionary Sun Yat-Sen makes a pact with Yuan Shikai of the Beiyang Army to overthrow the Qing Emperor in exchange for giving Yuan the post-imperial presidency which would oversee a modern parliamentary system. *

*1913: Yuan effectively abolishes parliamentary institutions dominated by Sun’s Kuomintang (KMT) party. An anti-Yuan revolution that same year fails, resulting in the exile of Sun and the execution of Sun’s KMT colleague Song Jiaoren. *

*December 1915 – March 1916: Yuan crowns himself emperor although his rule lasts for around three months prior to his abdication which itself was shortly followed by his death in June of 2016. *

*1917: Sun returns to China setting up his first southern KMT government in Guangdong province. That same year, an attempt by Japanese friendly forces in Beiyang to restore the Qing Dynasty fails after twelve days. *

*1916-1928: This twelve year period recognised as beginning with Yuan’s death and ending with Northern Expedition of 1928 is known as China’s Warlord Period in which the country was divided between a fledgling northern warlord Beiyang government and a southern Nationalist Government led by the KMT under Chiang Kai-shek (which was in a temporary alliance with Communists from 1923 until 1927).*

*1927: The end of the KMT-Communist First United Front results in the beginning of China’s protracted Civil War*

*Xinjiang under Yang*

While much of China’s coastal and near coastal regions were experiencing the political strife of the Warlord Era, regional sovereignty in Xinjiang remained comparatively stable. Between 1912 and 1928, Xinjiang was ruled by Governor Yang Zengxin, a man who openly professed loyalty to whichever war lord was the de-facto leader of the northern Beiyang government, but who in reality, was a highly autonomous ruler. During his time as Governor, he balanced the aspirations of both Han Chinese residents of Xinjiang against those of Turkic origin by allowing Hui Muslim Chinese to play a key role in his administration.

Yang’s period of rule is generally remembered as a placid one as he assured that the rights of all ethno-religious minorities were protected from the potential for mob violence, whilst unlike his most prominent successor, he was weary of entering into any partnerships with the Soviet Union which had long sought to exert its influence over Xinjiang.

*Jin Shuren *

Yang’s successor Jin Shuren governed Xinjiang between 1928 and 1933 and compared to his successor, he was known for a particularly harsh treatment of Turkic Muslims in the province. It was during this time that both Soviet and “stay behind” Russian White Army leaders began a period of intrigue into the affairs of Xinjiang.

Jin’s rule was blighted by the Kumul Rebellion which began in 1931. The Kumul Rebellion helps to illustrate that the political rivalries of pre-1949 Xinjiang were far more nuanced than rivalries between “monolithic” ethnic or religious groups. Instead, the power struggles which took place in Xinjiang during the 1930s and 1940s are more akin to inter-personal and intra-factional power struggles in which a competition for resources, influence and geopolitical prestige tended to trump unity among any particular ethnic or religious group.

As such, during the Kumul Rebellion Turkic Muslims allied with Hui Chinese Muslim General Ma Zhongying to topple Governor Jin. Making matters more complicated, the Nanjing government of Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek which putatively controlled a united China after 1928, played both sides against one another. Whilst publicly offering support to the embattled Jin, Chang’s government and army supported the rebellion due to suspicions that Jin was too close to a USSR government that had fallen out with Chang’s KMT.

During this rebellion, non-aligned groups of Turkic Muslims in the south of the province organised a rebellion of their own before briefly establishing the First East Turkistan Republic in 1933.

By the time that Chinese Nationalist forces loyal to Ma Zhongying proved victorious against rebels during the 1934 Battle of Kashgar, a new leader a new leader was busily consolidating his rule in Xinjiang.

*Sheng Shicai*

In 1933, Sheng Shicai was appointed leader (duban) of Xinjiang. With Jin now out of the picture and Ma having been effectively ostracised from Xinjiang in 1934 (after helping to end the First East Turkistan Republic and asssociated rebellions), Sheng sought to consolidate his own power. Sheng forged a powerful alliance with the Soviet Union and ruled Xinjiang as a nominally Chinese governor of Xinjiang but in reality, Xinjiang at this time became something of a Soviet satellite region within China’s borders.

During Sheng’s period of rule which lasted between 1933 and 1944, Xinjiang again went through a turbulent period. During his early rule of Xinjiang, Sheng worked to Sovietise the province which at first appeared to create an atmosphere of equality among all of Xinjiang’s diverse peoples. However, purges and suppression soon followed whilst the Chinese government of Chang could do little to attempt to bring Xinjiang back into the fold. This was primarily due to two factors: First of all, there was the ongoing rivalry between the KMT and the Communists (the first phase of China’s civil war) and secondly, there was the looming threat of full scale war between China and Japan which broke out in earnest in 1937. This war itself was easily foreseen as inevitable by many in China. The events in eastern China in 1937 help to explain why a Soviet invasion of Xinjiang beginning in the Spring of 1937, easily crushed a Turkic Muslim rebellion against Sheng. Although the anti-Sheng rebellion was backed by the KMT government, by now the Cheng’s Nationalist government clearly had other more pressing matters on its hands. At the time, the Nationalist government buried news of the Soviet-Sheng victory against KMT backed Turkic Islamic rebels due to Japanese attempts to use Sheng’s Soviet backed victory in propaganda efforts against China’s internationally recognised government.

To contextualise the events of the late 1930s, it is important to recall that in 1931, Japan had invaded the region of China then commonly known as Manchuria. Subsequent to the Japanese invasion of Manchuria, the Japanese occupiers set up a puppet regime in north-eastern China. It was therefore only a matter of time before China would need to focus its national struggle on liberating its territory from Japan. This reality solidified in Dcember of 1936 during an event known to history as the Xi’an Incident. During the Xi’an Incident, General Zhang Xueliang detained Chang and forced him to re-establish an alliance with his rival Communists that would act as a united front against further Japanese aggression. Thus, all of eastern China would from 1937 until 1945 be involved in a harrowing struggle of liberation against a savage multi-regional Japanese occupation.

Turning back to Sheng’s Xinjiang, with the Second World War now at its halfway point,1942 witnessed Sheng instigating a rapprochement with the Chinese government which was seen as troubling to his erstwhile Soviet masters. In October of 1943, the KMT sent a delegation to Xinjiang after which Sheng cooperated in the purging of largely pro-Soviet Chinese Communists from the province.

And yet, months later, after the Soviets prevailed in the Battle of Stalingrad, Sheng sought to re-establish good relations with Moscow but by now, Sheng was if anything distrusted more by the Soviets than by Chang’s KMT.

In September 1944, Sheng who was now again generally reconciled with the KMT, left his leadership post in Xinjiang and took a comparatively “safe” job as the KMT government’s Agriculture minister.

*The Soviets switch sides *

Whilst during the 1930s, the Soviets had helped Sheng to maintain his pseudo-Soviet puppet state much to the consternation of both the KMT and many groups of Islamic rebels, in 1944, the USSR switched sides and helped Turkic Muslims in Xinjiang to establish the Second East Turkestan Republic in the wake of the Ili Rebellion.

However, by 1949, the entirety of Xinjiang came under the consolidated control of the new People’s Republic of China, thus ending what remained of both KMT rule in Xinjiang as well as the fledgling Soviet backed East Turkestan Republic.

*The People’s Republic of China and contemporary Xinjiang*

Between 1912 and 1949, China experienced what can only be called multiple civil wars, in addition to simultaneously fighting one of the most brutal occupations in history at the hands of the Empire of Japan. In 1949, the People’s Republic of China at long last brought unity to the country whilst simultaneously ending the geopolitical dynamics which were pervasive in China’s Century of Humiliation.

In spite of China’s mid-20th century efforts to peacefully integrate Xinjiang into modern Chinese society, after the Sino-Soviet split of the early 1960s, Moscow began an active campaign which encouraged anti-state terrorism among the Turkic Muslims of Xinjiang. This culminated in the Sino-Soviet border conflict of 1969 which yet again saw Soviet aggression against Xinjiang.

The disputes arising from the conflict remained unsettled until the 1990s when Moscow and Beijing signed a border agreement which helped to pave the way for a golden era in neighbourly relations which continues to flourish in the 2000s.

But just when Moscow agreed to cease hostility against Xinjiang and renew what prior to the 20th century had largely been healthy relations with China, western actors began agitating for terrorism in Xinjiang as a means of weakening a Chinese economy which had witnessed miraculous development since the Reform and Opening Up of 1978.

*2009-2019*

2009 saw civil disturbances gripping Xinjiang at a time when such strife was becoming ever more common in places like Afghanistan and on the western borders of China’s all-weather friend Pakistan. In response, the Chinese government has prioritised economic investments, infrastructural development, education programmes, vocational training and counter-extremism education for the people of Xinjiang.

Sadly, many of these successful counter-extremist programmes which are in fact similar to those instigated in Pakistan’s Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, have been grossly misrepresented by some of the outside world. Yet as a result of China’s counter-terrorism policies, of all the borderland provinces in multiple Asian nations that have in the past been subject to political extremism, Xinjiang is among the most peaceful. By contrast, the Muslim minority in India is currently facing vastly higher amounts of strife at the hands of supporters of India’s ruling BJP than are the Muslims of Xinjiang.

*Conclusion *

It is understandable that Muslims in countries in which Islam is the faith of the majority should be troubled by the false information being spread by mainly western governments about Xinjiang. However, there is an easy way to break this cycle of suspicion. China continues to welcome peaceful international observers to Xinjiang in order to experience first hand how a province that experienced centuries of war and political instability is now at its most harmonious in modern history. Furthermore, a new bus service running from Xinjiang to Lahore will offer Pakistanis the opportunity to engage in ever more meaningful human-to-human contact with those in Xinjiang.

Such human-to-human contact should also be prioritised in respect of allowing citizens of the Republic of Turkey to see first hand what the reality is in Xinjiang. As positive relations between Ankara and Beijing continue to expand across a verity of sectors, it must certainly be contemplated that a summit between Chinese President Xi Jinping and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan could take place in Xinjiang which could foster both geopolitical harmony and a sense of fraternity among peoples whose shared history ought to be carried forward in a new era of win-win cooperation.

For Xinjiang peace has dawned after centuries of strife, all that remains is for the wider world to see this positive transformation.


*Eurasia Future*

Copyright © 2019 Eurasia Future.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

War Thunder said:


> You will do diplomacy with an oppressor?



Yes, you can advise your friend in a nice, persistent way without turning it into the West’s favorite zero-sum game like Syria, Yemen, and Libya.

There is no reason the West should be involved in our relationship with China. We are more than capable of looking after our own interests.



polanski said:


> Furthermore, a new bus service running from *Xinjiang to Lahore* will offer *Pakistanis* the opportunity to engage in ever more meaningful human-to-human contact with those in Xinjiang.



This is really exciting. I look forward to one day visiting the region myself and seeing the great progress going on there.

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## polanski

This is called friends with benefits. I wish Bangladesh learnt the same from Rohingya piece of sh$t issue. Bangladesh learnt nothing from the ordeal.


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## War Thunder

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Yes, you can advise your friend in a nice, persistent way without turning it into the West’s favorite zero-sum game like Syria, Yemen, and Libya.
> 
> There is no reason the West should be involved in our relationship with China. We are more than capable of looking after our own interests.
> .




Alright, following your logic. Let's say your kid was being thrown into a forced vocational bla bla center by your oppressor friend. What will you do about it? Advise your friend in a nice persistent way while your kid is suffering and being oppressed?
If you won't and if you are fine with some one else's husband, wives, and children suffering. Then I can only feel sorry for you.

I don't care about what the west has to say. 
What I care about is if we know there is a wrong being done, what we are going to do about it? 
Support it?
And most of you pity able minds here, want to talk about why the west is talking about an issue, while evading the question, why are you not effing talking about it before even the west does?

You will pick the side of an oppressor just to show defiance to the west? What kind of effed up logic is that?

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## Ghost 125

War Thunder said:


> Oh I am pretty hostile to any statement that starts and ends with words like "its all BS, there is no opression of muslims in China."
> Without adding any logic or reasoning to back it up.
> 
> A person who is convinced with logic, will have the logic to explain it to others.
> A blind follower or whose mind is controlled by whatever others say about an issue and he/she can't be bothered with independent research to convince their own selves is some one to be hostile about and feel sorry for


you just talk big i am sure you have never been to China. i dont have appetite for this

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## Hexciter




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## fisher1

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> So what? China's alliance with Pakistan is FAR MORE sacred and deeper than ANY relationship we have with ALL other non-Pakistani Muslims. China's internal matters are of no concern to outsiders.
> 
> Also, the above article is FAR TOO melodramatic. It's not as if China is killing Muslims like the americans have. The Americans have killed millions of Muslims yet the whole world has stood silent. Why are no Muslims or Muslim nations condemning the Americans for the genocide of nearly 4 million Muslims since 1990?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many Uighers have been killed in this holocaust? If what you say is true then please remember to post the links to the evidence, right here. If not then it means you're being indian about the whole thing and spreading lies and extreme misinformation.



Speak for yourself. A Muslims relationship with Allah is far more sacred and deeper than with Mushrikeen Chinese. Prophet Muhammad (saww) told us Muslims are like parts of a body, if one part hurts the whole body hurts. Don't assume for me or rest of Pakistani Muslims next time because you're clearly oblivious to this simple fact about Muslims.

If you were to come out of the rock you were living under, everyone and their mother hates and condemns America. Are you living in communist rule or something that you're so ignorant? 

So as long as you don't kill someone, it's not oppression? Look at your pathetic justifications. Just disgusting. 

Oh let me post proofs of those concentration camps, silly me, I'll just go to the concentration camps and tell those Chinese to smile for the camera while they're torturing people.


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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> Prophet Muhammad (saww) told us Muslims are like parts of a body, if one part hurts the whole body hurts..


If that's so I truly wish the Muslims stop fighting and killing each others, bring peace and development to the middle east.

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## fisher1

Umair Nawaz said:


> East Turkestan movement, TTP, Baloch terrorists, Norther Alliance etc etc and this Uygur leadership ie World Uyghur Congress which is washington based lol
> 
> and how can we forget the English Speaking Daesh transported into Afghanistan through unmarked Western made Helicopters!!!! lol
> 
> @DeadSparrow We cant blame Chinese for that, this hatred created by west through their media which has the global reach has led the whole of humanity to this day! When we talk to Chinese about such issues which BTW we have as well, they tell us the exact same thing......This phobia has come from the ruthless and false preaching of the western media being spread consistently from the last 19 years now! in the guise of fighting War and Terror, protecting their way of life, Freedom etc etc.
> 
> What u think if a Chinese citizen, Indian Citizen, Srilankan or Myanmese Citizen sees and thinks abt Islam and Muslims itself?
> 
> These other countries had never had any bad experience with Islam and Muslims as well.....But because of these western countries and their state policies they have brainwashed the entire World to hate Islam and Muslims.
> I mean look, even these Latin Americans and Hispanic people who themselves have a Muslim Background from the 800 years of Muslim rule in Spain, r also hating Muslims and Islam, because they saw that in Western TV channels or in internet propagated by these judo-christian countries.
> 
> This is the the root cause of the problem! as long as this doesnt get addressed and there isnt a social change right within the Western countries, there is no way we can deal with that. Heck! these western countries dont even teach the colonial history nor crusades history nor War on terror history to their children, then how will that ever happen realistically to begin with?
> 
> Because these ''other countries'' do not have any such history(Crusades,Colonial,war on terror etc etc) to begin with.
> 
> That is why nobody takes the western propaganda seriously anymore specially in the Muslim World, be it about China or whatever else. Regardless of it being true or not.
> 
> yaad ha, bachpann main humne aik kahani sunni the, Sher aya Sher aya wali? k kaisy aik charwaha Gaon k logo ko bewakuf banata raha k Sher aa gya ha or usski bakrian khany laga ha, or villagers jab b usski madad k lea aaty the to wo unn pr hasta tha k mainy unnhain jhoot bol k bewakuf bana lia or phir jab aik din wakai sher aa gya orr usski bakria kha gya to wo cheekhta raha gaon k logo k aagy k sher aa gya ha orr usski bakrian kha gya ha orr goan walo main sy kisi ny b usski madad nai ki q k wo yahe samjhe k wo jhoota ha or sher usski saari bakria kha gya??
> 
> Yaad ha ye story??
> 
> What was the moral of that story do u remember? K jhoot bolny waly ki baat par koi yakeen nahi karta q k wo khud apni credibility kho deta ha! iss lea kabhi jhoot na bolo!!!!
> 
> Bas yahe ho raha ha China or West k darmiyan, ajj west chahe jitna b sach bolta rahe, magar saari dunya ko pta chal chuka ha k wo jhoota ha or koi uss ki baat par yakeen nahi kar raha! iss lea koi b usska sath nahi deta China k against, ye Uygur Muslaman to sirf aik bahana ha! ye tumhe b pta ha orr mujhe b pta ha k West China to destroy karna chahta ha orr ye Chinese Muslims uss ki aik Shatir sazish ha!
> 
> Bas ye asal baat ha!



So if i understand you, what you're telling me is Chinese doing oppression on Uighurs is okay because the West spread Islamophobia there? Oh it's okay if the Uighurs are raped, brainwashed, tortured because the poor Chinese, the West spread Islamophobia to them. 

How can i counter such a logical argument, i can't. You're right.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Iss kahani me boht aala sabak he, agar hum samajne wale baney.
> 
> Musalman jo har jagga ghadda ke jehsey chalte he inn faasiqon ke kehney pe.
> 
> Samaj lo Kyu Quran me likha he ke faasiq ki baat kabhi na suno, ta ke tum bila waja Zulm na karo kissi pe.



Tou pir tum kyu in Mushrikeen ko aisa defend kar rahay ho? 

Kabhi Holy Quran ko tafseer kay saath paro pir tumharay dil say Chinese ki yeh mohabbat door ho jayegi



beijingwalker said:


> If that's so I truly wish the Muslims stop fighting and killing each others, bring peace and development to the middle east.



Trust me, you don't want that because then China won't be able to do what it's doing to Uighurs. It's not going to happen anyway because 

This is the prophecy of our Prophet Muhammad (saww) that near the end times, Muslims would be gigantic in numbers but oppressed everywhere and they wouldn't be able to do anything. All nations would call each other and set upon Muslims like diners set upon food. 

Isn't that what's happening. 1.8 billion Muslims and we're the most divided of all.

So don't worry, China will be able to wipe out Islam from Xinjiang especially Uighurs. The next generation is going to be CCP slaves, the current generation is getting treatment in concentration camps


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## Umair Nawaz

DeadSparrow said:


> So if i understand you, what you're telling me is Chinese doing oppression on Uighurs is okay because the West spread Islamophobia there? Oh it's okay if the Uighurs are raped, brainwashed, tortured because the poor Chinese, the West spread Islamophobia to them.
> 
> How can i counter such a logical argument, i can't. You're right.
> 
> 
> 
> Tou pir tum kyu in Mushrikeen ko aisa defend kar rahay ho?
> 
> Kabhi Holy Quran ko tafseer kay saath paro pir tumharay dil say Chinese ki yeh mohabbat door ho jayegi


no im merely explaining in the above post that why nobody believes in the west these days worldwide! its not just us Muslims or cour countries....look at the recent votes merely 22 countries voted in favour while 37 countries voted against it, and not all of them were Muslim Countries.

As for China and other Countries as well as their treatment of Muslims, im saying that if we r to stop Chinese or others realistically and permanently, we must stop west, punish them fr their sins then afterwards make them reverse this *Islam Hatred that they spread and r responsible for* in the first place!

in such a long term strategy, we will only be able to stop chinese from doing what they r doing! or else there lies no realistic way to stop it......What yr implying through the OP is simply not doing to happen (watch that documentary to get a far reaching and deeper idea of why that judochristian so called human rights activist says so and whom it only will benefit).

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## ZeEa5KPul

War Thunder said:


> Alright, following your logic. Let's say your kid was being thrown into a forced vocational bla bla center by your oppressor friend.


See, here's the thing: it's not your kid. You have nothing to do with these people. Don't be a nosy neighbour and meddle in affairs that have nothing to do with you. Good neighbours mind their own business.



beijingwalker said:


> If that's so I truly wish the Muslims stop fighting and killing each others, bring peace and development to the middle east.


It's like they don't have enough enemies, they have to go around making more. They want to turn every single friend or potential friend they have into an enemy.



Hexciter said:


> View attachment 569272
> 
> View attachment 569273


Hey, send those buses over to China. They'll pack them full of Uighur terrorists and send them back over to you. You love them so much, you can have them. Don't get mad if they blow up a cafe full of "harlots" and "fornicators" (read: normal people, you still have those in Turkey, right?) for being un-Islamic.


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## fisher1

Umair Nawaz said:


> no im saying that if we r to stop Chinese, we must stop west, punish them fr their sins then afterwards make them reverse this *Islam Hatred that they spread and r responsible for* in the first place!
> 
> in such a long term strategy, we will only be able to stop chinese from doing what they r doing! or else there lies no realistic way to stop it......What yr implying through the OP is simply not doing to happen (watch that documentary to get a far reaching and deeper idea of why that judochristian so called human rights activist says so and whom it only will benefit).



Do you even hear yourself? Let me break it down for you. Some big bad evil person (let's call it West) who does bad things takes someone in his apprenticeship (let's call it China) and teaches him bad things. China goes on to kill someone - which West condemns him for - but there's some judge who thinks like you and says hold on a minute. This dude might have killed someone but the real culprit is West. Let's hang him and let China free. 

Did that sound ridiculous to you? That's what your whole twisted logic is to absolve China of its oppression. What West did are their crimes, what Chinese are doing are their crimes. Don't justify one by the other. 

If we want to stop Chinese, the first step is condemning them. Stop the All Weather friend propaganda and do this over talks. Pakistan has far more leverage over China than Turkey. Because China absolutely needs Pakistan to be its slave and we're being good little slaves.


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## Umair Nawaz

DeadSparrow said:


> Do you even hear yourself? Let me break it down for you. Some big bad evil person (let's call it West) who does bad things takes someone in his apprenticeship (let's call it China) and teaches him bad things. China goes on to kill someone - which West condemns him for - but there's some judge who thinks like you and says hold on a minute. This dude might have killed someone but the real culprit is West. Let's hang him and let China free.
> 
> Did that sound ridiculous to you? That's what your whole twisted logic is to absolve China of its oppression. What West did are their crimes, what Chinese are doing are their crimes. Don't justify one by the other.
> 
> If we want to stop Chinese, the first step is condemning them. Stop the All Weather friend propaganda and do this over talks. Pakistan has far more leverage over China than Turkey. Because China absolutely needs Pakistan to be its slave and we're being good little slaves.


read post#1196 again, i have edited it.

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## fisher1

ZeEa5KPul said:


> See, here's the thing: it's not your kid. You have nothing to do with these people. Don't be a nosy neighbour and meddle in affairs that have nothing to do with you. Good neighbours mind their own business.
> 
> 
> It's like they don't have enough enemies, they have to go around making more. They want to turn every single friend or potential friend they have into an enemy.
> 
> 
> Hey, send those buses over to China. They'll pack them full of Uighur terrorists and send them back over to you. You love them so much, you can have them. Don't get mad if they blow up a cafe full of "harlots" and "fornicators" (read: normal people, you still have those in Turkey, right?) for being un-Islamic.



Thanks for showing your true colors. I love it when a Chinese lets his racist Islamophobic comments out. Makes me imagine vividly what Uighurs would have to listen to while they're being tortured and raped. Like what ISIS would yell while raping those 13 years old girls.

Don't let a shred of doubt in our mind about Chinese, okay?

She gave us some idea

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## Umair Nawaz

DeadSparrow said:


> If we want to stop Chinese, the first step is condemning them. Stop the All Weather friend propaganda and do this over talks. Pakistan has far more leverage over China than Turkey. Because China absolutely needs Pakistan to be its slave and we're being good little slaves.


cant! we cant do that right now! we r not in such a position as yet........we depend on them through economics and trade. 

Our Economy itself is in shambles! like i said its a long term solution no short cuts are a viable solution in order to make these countries not just china but others too like india myanmar srilanka israel to permanently stop them from doing so!

Right now we need to become a Azad Quom, both mentally and materialistically by standing in our own feet and shove off the colonial legacies be it education system or building or system and through our own sovereign, self dependent economy.

Then only we will be able to assertively say to them both west and east not to do what they r doing with Muslims and be able to punish them too if they dont comply!

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

ZeEa5KPul said:


> See, here's the thing: it's not your kid. You have nothing to do with these people. Don't be a nosy neighbour and meddle in affairs that have nothing to do with you. Good neighbours mind their own business.



He does not know who is his enemy and who is his friend, but make no mistake, Pakistanis of GB are related by blood to Uyghurs and he have a long history of intermarriage and cultural ties.

Furthermore, every Muslims’ life is the business of the global Muslim community.

It is obvious from the behavior of these two posters that they are sucked deep into Western lies and propaganda.

The only cure for this is time and education.

Keep your cool and show a positive image of China.

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## nang2

DeadSparrow said:


> Thanks for showing your true colors. I love it when a Chinese lets his racist Islamophobic comments out. Makes me imagine vividly what Uighurs would have to listen to while they're being tortured and raped. Like what ISIS would yell while raping those 13 years old girls.
> 
> Don't let a shred of doubt in our mind about Chinese, okay?
> 
> She gave us some idea


Take it with a big chunk of salt. This type of China bashing isn't new. FaLunGong has been doing it for a very long time. They simply make use of the closeness of Chinese government to spread lies in the rest of the world. Since that is all you are going to hear, you are more likely to believe.

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## BL33D

Umair Nawaz said:


> cant! we cant do that right now! we r not in such a position as yet........we depend on them through economics and trade.
> 
> Our Economy itself is in shambles! like i said its a long term solution no short cuts are a viable solution in order to make these countries not just china but others too like india myanmar srilanka israel to permanently stop them from doing so!
> 
> Right now we need to become a Azad Quom, both mentally and materialistically by standing in our own feet and shove off the colonial legacies be it education system or building or system and through our own sovereign, self dependent economy.
> 
> Then only we will be able to assertively say to them both west and east not to do what they r doing with Muslims and be able to punish them too if they dont comply!


But dont you think by then, lets assume 2050, uighurs wouldnt even be there, if so they would have been radically changed, culture mostly demolished like what happen in tibet. China is too overpowering and implements things pretty fast. The muslim community might not have time in the long run.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

DeadSparrow said:


> Because China absolutely needs Pakistan to be its slave and we're being good little slaves.



I am glad you are not running Pakistan’s foreign policy.

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## BL33D

nang2 said:


> Take it with a big chunk of salt. This type of China bashing isn't new. FaLunGong has been doing it for a very long time. They simply make use of the closeness of Chinese government to spread lies in the rest of the world. Since that is all you are going to hear, you are more likely to believe.


Then why doesnt china allow press freely to interview and look at those camps if it has nothing to hide, dont give that whole conspiracy against china narrative, it wont be a topic if it didnt have any truth to it.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I am glad you are not running Pakistan’s foreign policy.


If you mean someone who is strong enough to stand for their priciple, yes youre right.He is one of the most unbiased persons on here, he bashes India on any opportunity but doesnt spare his countries allies for their wrong doings.

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## Umair Nawaz

bl33d said:


> But dont you think by then, lets assume 2050, uighurs wouldnt even be there, if so they would have been radically changed, culture mostly demolished like what happen in tibet. China is too overpowering and implements things pretty fast. The muslim community might not have time in the long run.


do we have another choice?

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## nang2

bl33d said:


> But dont you think by then, lets assume 2050, uighurs wouldnt even be there, if so they would have been radically changed, culture mostly demolished like what happen in tibet. China is too overpowering and implements things pretty fast. The muslim community might not have time in the long run.


First of all, don't be too egotistic about your own culture or Muslim culture, however you define it. Muslims have been adapting themselves in every community they go to. It is more natural and more often to have culture melting than culture conquest. This happens everywhere, including China. Chinese Muslims will have their own distinct marks than Muslims in other countries. But they have endured for thousands of years and they will continue to exist.

Second, being egotistic has consequences. Demanding things to be in your ways, regardless how people live near-by think, will have backlashes. That is what Uyghurs are facing now. I am not a fan of Chinese Communists but I am also not a fan of Uyghur independence movement. Chinese communists are simply stupid and pro-independence Uyghurs are simply vicious. Things won't be pretty when those two collide.

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## beijingwalker

bl33d said:


> But dont you think by then, lets assume 2050, uighurs wouldnt even be there, if so they would have been radically changed, culture mostly demolished like what happen in tibet. China is too overpowering and implements things pretty fast. The muslim community might not have time in the long run.


Hui Muslim have been all across China in every city, town, village and street for 1000 years, they are argubly the most successful minority group in China, how can you say Muslims in Chna have no time?

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## BL33D

Umair Nawaz said:


> do we have another choice?


No you dont, youre too dependent on them to have any say. Thank god, you lost 1971 or else you guys would be heavily dependent on India and couldnt have criticized India the way you do now. Dodged a bullet.


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## nang2

bl33d said:


> Then why doesnt china allow press freely to interview and look at those camps if it has nothing to hide, dont give that whole conspiracy against china narrative, it wont be a topic if it didnt have any truth to it.
> 
> 
> If you mean someone who is strong enough to stand for their priciple, yes youre right.He is one of the most unbiased persons on here, he bashes India on any opportunity but doesnt spare his countries allies for their wrong doings.


You may be too naive to remark like that. Don't you know that mind sees what it wants to see? Free to interview only gives those with deep bias and vicious agenda an invitation to look for "wrongs".

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## BL33D

nang2 said:


> First of all, don't be too egotistic about your own culture or Muslim culture, however you define it. Muslims have been adapting themselves in every community they go to. It is more natural and more often to have culture melting than culture conquest. This happens everywhere, including China. Chinese Muslims will have their own distinct marks than Muslims in other countries. But they have endured for thousands of years and they will continue to exist.
> 
> Second, being egotistic has consequences. Demanding things to be in your ways, regardless how people live near-by think, will have backlashes. That is what Uyghurs are facing now. I am not a fan of Chinese Communists but I am also not a fan of Uyghur independence movement. Chinese communists are simply stupid and pro-independence Uyghurs are simply vicious. Things won't be pretty when those two collide.


I will conquer the first part that you should adapt to the law of the land. But are you saying putting them in camps and destroying the mosques is how you want to integrate them. Dont even deny that you guys arent involved in widespread mosque demolition. We have satellite records.



nang2 said:


> You may be too naive to remark like that. Don't you know that mind sees what it wants to see? Free to interview only gives those with deep bias and vicious agenda an invitation to look for "wrongs".


So suggest me an alternative ? Just trust Chinas words ?

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## nang2

bl33d said:


> I will conquer the first part that you should adapt to the law of the land. But are you saying putting them in camps and destroying the mosques is how you want to integrate them. Dont even deny that you guys arent involved in widespread mosque demolition. We have satellite records.


As I said, you cannot always have the things in your way. There is always some give-and-take. Why mosque demolition is such a bad thing? China is a crowded country. Mosque building means it often needs to demolish something else on that site. Have you even given a slightest thought about what demolishing that makes other people feel? Not everyone is a fan or friendly towards Islam, considering so many negative news around the world.


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## Umair Nawaz

bl33d said:


> No you dont, youre too dependent on them to have any say. Thank god, you lost 1971 or else you guys would be heavily dependent on India and couldnt have criticized India the way you do now. Dodged a bullet.


we were never dependent on india even then kid!

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## BL33D

Umair Nawaz said:


> we were never dependent on india even then kid!


Didnt i say "would be". If you would need indian roads and air space to move to the other half of your country, its safe to say you would be dependent




nang2 said:


> As I said, you cannot always have the things in your way. There is always some give-and-take. Why mosque demolition is such a bad thing? China is a crowded country. Mosque building means it often needs to demolish something else on that site. Have you even given a slightest thought about what demolishing that makes other people feel? Not everyone is a fan or friendly towards Islam, considering so many negative news around the world.


Oh yes there is a lot of negative attached to Islam, but demolition of mosques and putting them in camps is the best way to solve that, my oh my, i always respected chinese brains in science and tech and warfare. truly. but your social and humanitarian thoughts are utterly lacking.

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## nang2

bl33d said:


> So suggest me an alternative ? Just trust Chinas words ?


No, but Pakistan, if it becomes a serious concern, can ask nicely and secretly to have a tour or visit. China is always open for discussion when it feels not threatened. Chinese often have face issue. Don't expect to get anything from Chinese by making them lose face. But for you, as a regular citizen, you may not have the privilege and you have to channel your concern via your government and get information through them.


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## BL33D

nang2 said:


> No, but Pakistan, if it becomes a serious concern, can ask nicely and secretly to have a tour or visit. China is always open for discussion when it feels not threatened. Chinese often have face issue. Don't expect to get anything from Chinese by making them lose face. But for you, as a regular citizen, you may not have the privilege and you have to channel your concern via your government and get information through them.


Thats really suspicious for the world that you would do secret visit, almost like what happens in DPRK where you are shown all happy and colourful life on their state tours, you wouldnt agree to that propaganda right, so how do you think anyone would trust such thing from you. The easiest would be to allow people to visit the region like rest of the world. if there is nothing wrong, the west would be utterly shamed.

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## nang2

bl33d said:


> Oh yes there is a lot of negative attached to Islam, but demolition of mosques and putting them in camps is the best way to solve that, my oh my, i always respected chinese brains in science and tech and warfare. truly. but your social and humanitarian thoughts are utterly lacking.


Now, I have to say you are an idiot. Putting them in camps has nothing to do with Islam, unless you like to associate Islam with terrorism. Any group of people who are challenging the law enforcement and threatening the order of societies may be treated with such a measure, regardless who they are, Uyghurs, Tibetans or FaLunGong followers.



bl33d said:


> Thats really suspicious for the world that you would do secret visit, almost like what happens in DPRK where you are shown all happy and colourful life on their state tours, you wouldnt agree to that propaganda right, so how do you think anyone would trust such thing from you. The easiest would be to allow people to visit the region like rest of the world. if there is nothing wrong, the west would be utterly shamed.


Let me elaborate why I say you are an idiot. It is the best term I may give for I am not yet convinced that you are vicious but it is getting closer. You are an idiot because you misinterpret my words and apply them to something irrelevant and far-fetched. If you are doing so on purpose, you are not an idiot. You are a vicious person.

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## BL33D

nang2 said:


> Now, I have to say you are an idiot. Putting them in camps has nothing to do with Islam, unless you like to associate Islam with terrorism. Any group of people who are challenging the law enforcement and threatening the order of societies may be treated with such a measure, regardless who they are, Uyghurs, Tibetans or FaLunGong followers.
> 
> 
> Let me elaborate why I say you are an idiot. It is the best term I may give for I am not yet convinced that you are vicious but it is getting closer. You are an idiot because you misinterpret my words and apply them to something irrelevant and far-fetched. If you are doing so on purpose, you are not an idiot. You are a vicious person.


So you decided you cant possibly respond and would rather make word salad. Fine by me.

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## nang2

bl33d said:


> So you decided you cant possibly respond and would rather make word salad. Fine by me.


Sorry, it is you who make word salad, a terrible one if you ask me.


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## ZeEa5KPul

DeadSparrow said:


> Makes me imagine vividly what Uighurs would have to listen to while they're being tortured and raped.


LMAO @ tortured and raped. No, they're not tortured and raped. They sing Party songs, learn Chinese, and stitch simple garments. Which is far better than the alternatives they had: being illiterate and violent vagabonds resentful that all the employment opportunities are going to Han Chinese instead of them because they lack any employable skills, living in exile in a Turkish slum, or becoming a suicide bomb for ETIM in Syria.

There's nothing Islamophobic in what I said or what I think. I think Chinese Muslims should remember that they're Chinese first and Muslim second. If they can't remember that, they will be reminded.


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## BL33D

ZeEa5KPul said:


> LMAO @ tortured and raped. No, they're not tortured and raped. They sing Party songs, learn Chinese, and stitch simple garments. Which is far better than the alternatives they had: being illiterate and violent vagabonds resentful that all the employment opportunities are going to Han Chinese instead of them because they lack any employable skills, living in exile in a Turkish slum, or becoming a suicide bomb for ETIM in Syria.
> 
> There's nothing Islamophobic in what I said or what I think. I think Chinese Muslims should remember that they're Chinese first and Muslim second. If they can't remember that, they will be reminded.


woah the threat level on your comment is off the charts ? " will be reminded" do you mean exterminating anyone who doesnt believe in the state ?

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## fisher1

ZeEa5KPul said:


> There's nothing Islamophobic in what I said or what I think.



China doesn't think it's doing any wrong re-enacting a holocaust either. That's the issue with brains of oppressors, they think they're doing good.

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## ZeEa5KPul

DeadSparrow said:


> China doesn't think it's doing any wrong re-enacting a holocaust either. That's the issue with brains of oppressors, they think they're doing good.


Wow, you're just a sucker for everyone's propaganda, aren't you? You're liking an Indian poster's comments. I'm sure someone like you who is professionally outraged by any slight Muslims suffer around the world knows what India does to Muslims, right? Why don't you give him one of your indignant lectures instead of liking his posts, hmm?


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## BL33D

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Wow, you're just a sucker for everyone's propaganda, aren't you? You're liking an Indian poster's comments. I'm sure someone like you who is professionally outraged by any slight Muslims suffer around the world knows what India does to Muslims, right? Why don't you give him one of your indignant lectures instead of liking his posts, hmm?


First of all we have one of the worlds largest muslim population and they are elected and represented in the highest political and executive posts in the country. We have problems in Kashmir which we are trying to solve, and people all over the world either praise or criticize and PDF members here plenty bash us, but even they would agree that we dont have a genocide plan for them, its a different fight, which is political and isnt motivated by Islamophobia. Dont distract the topic by bringing India here. Face your demos yourself.


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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> As I said, you cannot always have the things in your way. There is always some give-and-take. *Why mosque demolition is such a bad thing? China is a crowded country. Mosque building means it often needs to demolish something else on that site. Have you even given a slightest thought about what demolishing that makes other people feel? Not everyone is a fan or friendly towards Islam, considering so many negative news around the world.*


so if we go to beijing and demolish forbidden city, will u say the same

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## BL33D

Umair Nawaz said:


> so if we go to beijing and demolish forbidden city, will u say the same


Savage


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## Umair Nawaz

bl33d said:


> Didnt i say "would be". If you would need indian roads and air space to move to the other half of your country, its safe to say you would be dependent
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes there is a lot of negative attached to Islam, but demolition of mosques and putting them in camps is the best way to solve that, my oh my, i always respected chinese brains in science and tech and warfare. truly. but your social and humanitarian thoughts are utterly lacking.


read my post again!

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## masterchief_mirza

War Thunder said:


> Sir, with respect, what facts and proof do you have the average Uighur is doing better now? Have you heard of what the Turks have been saying? What the Indonesians are?
> I do not care how similar or different the situation is.
> If people are being forced to so called "vocational" camps. If children are being separated from mothers, and wives from their husbands. Then its "OPPRESSION" and God hates oppression, and I as a Muslim cannot say one form of oppression is better than another. I should rather question my morality and faith, if I lack the ability to decipher a wrong from the deception and lack the ability to question things and then stand on what is right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will do diplomacy with an oppressor? Will try to negotiate sense into their brains filled with nonsense and lack of understanding of anything beyond the physical world they live in?
> 
> But then again, we are a country who are so cut off from our creator than we even get bullied by the likes of Afghanistan, completely dependent on other nations for our survival...let alone trying to stand up against an oppressor be it China or any other.


Once again, like many posters here,you are directly equating oppression of Muslims with security measures being taken against separatism. You are deliberately obfuscating the issue. Pakistan or ksa or Iran or any Muslim nation would take similar steps to curb separatism. China is not at war with Islam or Muslims or mosques or Islamic graveyards or halal beef. Unlike some other nations, China is happy for Muslims to be Muslims, as long as they are loyal to China. And since China is not marching into the Hejaz any time soon or threatening to build a temple in al aqsa, I see no problem in befriending China.

God made us into different tribes, so that we may know one another, NOT constantly engage in war with one another.


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## ZeEa5KPul

Since China is committing a "genocide" in Xinjiang, apparently, can you name one person who was executed in these so-called concentration camps?


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## masterchief_mirza

bl33d said:


> Then why doesnt china allow press freely to interview and look at those camps if it has nothing to hide, dont give that whole conspiracy against china narrative, it wont be a topic if it didnt have any truth to it.
> 
> 
> If you mean someone who is strong enough to stand for their priciple, yes youre right.He is one of the most unbiased persons on here, he bashes India on any opportunity but doesnt spare his countries allies for their wrong doings.


You're being deliberately disingenuous. You know full well that airtime depends on agenda. Palestinians being brutalized will get no media coverage.

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## BL33D

Umair Nawaz said:


> read my post again!


What, am i missing something , i still stand by my words, you surely would have been dependent, come on 



masterchief_mirza said:


> You're being deliberately disingenuous. You know full well that airtime depends on agenda. Palestinians being brutalized will get no media coverage.


Palestine gets plenty coverage, the whole world knows about the situation, everyone gets to know what happens, missile fired we get to know, people killed we know, hamas does something in israel we get to know, dont conflate the issue. If you dont like foreign press, then pakistan press shoud go and investigate there, or chose whatsoever method you think is good for clarification but do that, but without doing anything dont blame the world for blming china.


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## Umair Nawaz

bl33d said:


> What, am i missing something , i still stand by my words, you surely would have been dependent, come on


we traded through sea sunshine, never used yr transit routes ever in history. only u have used ours to trade with Afghanistan which is also stopped since a few years.

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## ZeEa5KPul

bl33d said:


> First of all we have one of the worlds largest muslim population and they are elected and represented in the highest political and executive posts in the country. We have problems in Kashmir which we are trying to solve, and people all over the world either praise or criticize and PDF members here plenty bash us, but even they would agree that we dont have a genocide plan for them, its a different fight, which is political and isnt motivated by Islamophobia. Dont distract the topic by bringing India here. Face your demos yourself.


You want to bring up your "democracy"? Alright, let's talk about that. At least 14.2% of India's population is Muslim (by the 2011 census), it's very likely higher. Muslim MPs hold 27 seats out of 545 in India's parliament, i.e., 5%. *None* of those MPs are from the BJP, the dominant political party.

That's some real election and representation, right there.

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## BL33D

Umair Nawaz said:


> we traded through sea sunshine, never used yr transit routes ever in history. only u have used ours to trade with Afghanistan which is also stopped since a few years.


Again i am saying would be, and about sea route, plz agree with my next sentence, a smll change in air course costs airlines and ships millions, you think a full shiproute around indian peninsula be viable in 21st century, and back then the tension was too high to let air space happen.



bl33d said:


> Again i am saying would be, and about sea route, plz agree with my next sentence, a smll change in air course costs airlines and ships millions, you think a full shiproute around indian peninsula be viable in 21st century, and back then the tension was too high to let air space happen.


Lets let go of that topic, its just mind masterbation cuz it didnt happen, my bad for mentioning it.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> You want to bring up your "democracy"? Alright, let's talk about that. At least 14.2% of India's population is Muslim (by the 2011 census), it's very likely higher. Muslim MPs hold 27 seats out of 545 in India's parliament, i.e., 5%. *None* of those MPs are from the BJP, the dominant political party.
> 
> That's some real election and representation, right there.


Wow, a country that has a head of state for life wants to teach us democracy. Muslims hve been the president of India, their less representation is an issue, and the parties are trying to improve it, we ain't china, we are not going to deny the wrongs in our society, we are not perfect, but we r way better than china for us to listen to their advice on it. Please have your jail of a society with a billion CCTV watching and rating you. Again diverted the topic. Good job.


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## masterchief_mirza

bl33d said:


> What, am i missing something , i still stand by my words, you surely would have been dependent, come on
> 
> 
> Palestine gets plenty coverage, the whole world knows about the situation, everyone gets to know what happens, missile fired we get to know, people killed we know, hamas does something in israel we get to know, dont conflate the issue. If you dont like foreign press, then pakistan press shoud go and investigate there, or chose whatsoever method you think is good for clarification but do that, but without doing anything dont blame the world for blming china.



And there it is. Palestinians fire a rocket and poor Israel defends itself. You miss the whole issue of what made that rocket get launched, whether it was due to some initial oppression from Israel. I'm not going to get into a lecture on media/propaganda basics that you already know. You're not some 10 year old. 

So stop pretending "western media access" results in unbiased factual analysis of any situation.

Clearly some agencies have an agenda hence will selectively report certain items but disregard other items to present something in a certain way. India does this too so drop the meaningless ramblings.


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## BL33D

masterchief_mirza said:


> And there it is. Palestinians fire a rocket and poor Israel defends itself. You miss the whole issue of what made that rocket get launched, whether it was due to some initial oppression from Israel. I'm not going to get into a lecture on media/propaganda basics that you already know. You're not some 10 year old.
> 
> So stop pretending "western media access" results in unbiased factual analysis of any situation.
> 
> Clearly some agencies have an agenda hence will selectively report certain items but disregard other items to present something in a certain way. India does this too so drop the meaningless ramblings.


Therefore in my reply i addressed your concern by saying pakistan should do the investigation or any other possible solution. Why are you ignoring that part. And i am not speaking about who did what, we can discuss that somewhere else , but i am saying that it does get attention and is open to criticize and validation unlike in China. Thats it, who is wrong or right in the issue is a thing for separate discussion.


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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> so if we go to beijing and demolish forbidden city, will u say the same


Terrible argument. Really shows your intellectual capacity. When some people exclaim about mosque demolition, have they really thought just a little bit deeper? What kind of mosques are they? Are they newly built or have been there for thousands of years? Who are the ones that are not happy with these mosques and why are they not happy? Unfortunately, too many people are just ruled by their own emotions and their frontal cortex is severely drained of energy. Do yourself a favor and think deeper.


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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> Terrible argument. Really shows your intellectual capacity. When some people exclaim about mosque demolition, have they really thought just a little bit deeper? What kind of mosques are they? Are they newly built or have been there for thousands of years? Who are the ones that are not happy with these mosques and why are they not happy? Unfortunately, too many people are just ruled by their own emotions and their frontal cortex is severely drained of energy. Do yourself a favor and think deeper.


as i said, will u say the same if somebody demolishes the forbidden city in beijing for the exact same reason u gave abt Mosques?


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## fisher1

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Wow, you're just a sucker for everyone's propaganda, aren't you? You're liking an Indian poster's comments. I'm sure someone like you who is professionally outraged by any slight Muslims suffer around the world knows what India does to Muslims, right? Why don't you give him one of your indignant lectures instead of liking his posts, hmm?



What does my liking his posts have to do with India and Kashmir?. I have liked beijingwalker posts too, that doesn't mean i changed my views on Uighurs. 

I think he gets to listen to a lot of lectures from other Pakistanis here so I'll save my breath. It's the Uighurs that are abandoned and nobody dares speak in their favor due to might of China

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## BL33D

DeadSparrow said:


> What does my liking his posts have to do with India and Kashmir?. I have liked beijingwalker posts too, that doesn't mean i changed my views on Uighurs.
> 
> I think he gets to listen to a lot of lectures from other Pakistanis here so I'll save my breath. It's the Uighurs that are abandoned and nobody dares speak in their favor due to might of China


And i like this knowing how much it will burn him

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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> as i said, will u say the same if somebody demolishes the forbidden city in beijing for the exact same reason u gave abt Mosques?


No, dummy. Nobody likes to have something he is familiar with to be demolished, unless it is done by himself. Even if nothing is demolished, like the empty lot that was proposed to build a mosque in my neighborhood, people are still against it. People don't like familiar things changed into something unfamiliar and that is the source of resentment if forced upon. Muslims don't like their newly built mosque being demolished, nor do other people who didn't like that mosque to be built in the first place. Look at the bigger and fuller picture unless all you have learned from Islam is to disregard other people entirely.


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## masterchief_mirza

bl33d said:


> Therefore in my reply i addressed your concern by saying pakistan should do the investigation or any other possible solution. Why are you ignoring that part. And i am not speaking about who did what, we can discuss that somewhere else , but i am saying that it does get attention and is open to criticize and validation unlike in China. Thats it, who is wrong or right in the issue is a thing for separate discussion.


But this is patently false. Something that is not reported cannot be criticised. Coverage of the Israel Palestinian conflict is a great example of bias by omission. How can I criticise Israeli actions if they are simply not reported by mainstream media? Likewise, how can I commend China's actions if all the media says is "concentration camp to control Muslims"?


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## fisher1

Umair Nawaz said:


> so if we go to beijing and demolish forbidden city, will u say the same



Sorry but you're being a hypocrite now. 

I drain my energy all day speaking up for Uighurs and responding to an army of Chinese and Chinese lovers including Pakistanis against this exact issue. 

Suddenly, one Chinese admits to something and you feel hurt?. Don't be a hypocrite now and support him like you've been supporting them on their similar acts against Islam and Muslims. 

There's nothing wrong with what China demolishing mosques in Xinjiang. They've become graveyards anyway and tourist spots where they take money from people to visit them and people dance in front of them rather than being mosques. Might as well put an end to the hypocrisy as Muslims can't pray there anyway.


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## BL33D

masterchief_mirza said:


> But this is patently false. Something that is not reported cannot be criticised. Coverage of the Israel Palestinian conflict is a great example of bias by omission. How can I criticise Israeli actions if they are simply not reported by mainstream media? Likewise, how can I commend China's actions if all the media says is "concentration camp to control Muslims"?


People here atleast know that both sides are involved in killings and justify them. Common people might not, but here people have access to more info than others right. But in case of china even that is pretty less, even we cant definitely say what goes on in xinjiang. Problem is china is a control state, hard to get any info, without info, speculative criticism. Its a dead end if china doesnt help, we cant force into china.


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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> *No, dummy. Nobody likes to have something he is familiar with to be demolished, unless it is done by himself.* Even if nothing is demolished, like the empty lot that was proposed to build a mosque in my neighborhood, people are still against it. People don't like familiar things changed into something unfamiliar and that is the source of resentment if forced upon. Muslims don't like their newly built mosque being demolished, nor do other people who didn't like that mosque to be built in the first place. Look at the bigger and full picture unless all you have learned from Islam is to disregard other people entirely.


EXACTLY!

Now go read yr comment all over again! thats the issue with yr statement! and in Xinjiang which shares common borders with Muslim World from 3 sides and is a Muslim Province! This is why nobody is going to like u demolishing them regardless of how new/old they r.

Now understood?


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## fisher1

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Since China is committing a "genocide" in Xinjiang, apparently, can you name one person who was executed in these so-called concentration camps?



Sure, if China allows the press the freedom then many victims of rape, murder and torture would be named.


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## BL33D

Umair Nawaz said:


> EXACTLY!
> 
> Now go read yr comment all over again! thats the issue with yr statement! and in Xinjiang which shares common borders with Muslim World from 3 sides and is a Muslim Province! This is why nobody is going to like u demolishing them regardless of how new/old they r.
> 
> Now understood?


Also how does it matter new or old, they obviously take clearances before constructing any building, also religious sites of any religion are a work of art. I am an atheist and i can say that. i dont believe in the religions but i agree they sites add value, beauty and tourism. Why want to destroy them unless without an ulterior motive. You can always relocate them, many historical monuments are relocated. Nothing new.


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## Umair Nawaz

DeadSparrow said:


> Sorry but you're being a hypocrite now.
> 
> I drain my energy all day speaking up for Uighurs and responding to an army of Chinese and Chinese lovers including Pakistanis against this exact issue.
> 
> Suddenly, one Chinese admits to something and you feel hurt?. Don't be a hypocrite now and support him like you've been supporting them on their similar acts against Islam and Muslims.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with what China demolishing mosques in Xinjiang. They've become graveyards anyway and tourist spots where they take money from people to visit them and people dance in front of them rather than being mosques. Might as well put an end to the hypocrisy as Muslims can't pray there anyway.


hahaha kaka g! u dont know me! yr just too immature thats yr problem.....go read the last post i posted quoting u.

I still standby that. Maslaihat bhi koi cheez hoti ha kakay!



bl33d said:


> Also how does it matter new or old, they obviously take clearances before constructing any building, also religious sites of any religion are a work of art. I am an atheist and i can say that. i dont believe in the religions but i agree they sites add value, beauty and tourism. Why want to destroy them unless without an ulterior motive. You can always relocate them, many historical monuments are relocated. Nothing new.


and same goes for Babri Masjid too?

Sunshine! dont push it!

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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> EXACTLY!
> 
> Now go read yr comment all over again! thats the issue with yr statement! and in Xinjiang which shares common borders with Muslim World from 3 sides and is a Muslim Province! This is why nobody is going to like u demolishing them regardless of how new/old they r.
> 
> Now understood?


First of all, it is not a Muslim province. Your own bias gives this a new name. It is not even a province and it is definitely not a religious territory.

Second, again, you completely ignore non Muslims. As I said, don't expect things will all go in your way. Grow up!


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## BL33D

Umair Nawaz said:


> hahaha kaka g! u dont know me! yr just too immature thats yr problem.....go read the last post i posted quoting u.
> 
> I still standby that. Maslaihat bhi koi cheez hoti ha kakay!
> 
> 
> and same goes for Babri Masjid too?
> 
> Sunshine! dont push it!


Ya, cuz when that happen hindus and the whole indian society didnt cause an uproar against it, the whole thing did radically changed our society and laws, things dont get overlooked but they are subjected to scrutiny in india dear. Injustice was caused in that incident towards muslim then, and we recognize and condemn that. Why do you always see it from the point of view of the extremists in our society.


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## nang2

bl33d said:


> Also how does it matter new or old, they obviously take clearances before constructing any building, also religious sites of any religion are a work of art. I am an atheist and i can say that. i dont believe in the religions but i agree they sites add value, beauty and tourism. Why want to destroy them unless without an ulterior motive. You can always relocate them, many historical monuments are relocated. Nothing new.


Simple. For things that is new, those who lost it in the first place are still alive. The resentment from them is still alive and kicking. How much resentment is left in Pakistan from people who lost in the war of Islamic conquest?


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## Nilgiri

Umair Nawaz said:


> and in Xinjiang which shares common borders with Muslim World from 3 sides and is a Muslim Province!



All this while you were blabbing that its China internal issue....and now you declare Xinjiang as "Muslim" province instead of Chinese one....and bring in Muslim world as argument?



nang2 said:


> No, dummy. Nobody likes to have something he is familiar with to be demolished, unless it is done by himself. Even if nothing is demolished, like the empty lot that was proposed to build a mosque in my neighborhood, people are still against it. People don't like familiar things changed into something unfamiliar and that is the source of resentment if forced upon. Muslims don't like their newly built mosque being demolished, nor do other people who didn't like that mosque to be built in the first place. Look at the bigger and fuller picture unless all you have learned from Islam is to disregard other people entirely.



LOL, dont bother too much with Umair, he's not the brightest tool in the shed:



Umair Nawaz said:


> angle of attack is just 600 km........do the maths!



Don't mention Karachi either, he gets triggered easily lol. 

He is one of PDF more amusing characters though, try to enjoy the banter rather than take him seriously.

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## BL33D

nang2 said:


> Simple. For things that is new, those who lost it in the first place are still alive. The resentment from them is still alive and kicking. How much resentment is left in Pakistan from people who lost in the war of Islamic conquest?


So you weigh things by how much resentment it will cause nd not if it is right or wrong morally


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

DeadSparrow said:


> Speak for yourself. A Muslims relationship with Allah is far more sacred and deeper than with Mushrikeen Chinese. Prophet Muhammad (saww) told us Muslims are like parts of a body, if one part hurts the whole body hurts. Don't assume for me or rest of Pakistani Muslims next time because you're clearly oblivious to this simple fact about Muslims.
> 
> If you were to come out of the rock you were living under, everyone and their mother hates and condemns America. Are you living in communist rule or something that you're so ignorant?
> 
> So as long as you don't kill someone, it's not oppression? Look at your pathetic justifications. Just disgusting.
> 
> Oh let me post proofs of those concentration camps, silly me, I'll just go to the concentration camps and tell those Chinese to smile for the camera while they're torturing people.






Yeah sure it is. Just ask bengalis, afghans & indian so called "Muslims" if they regard Pakistanis as their "fellow Muslim brothers" and see what the respond would be...............even better, ask the Saudis or other Gulfy Arabs if they regard Iranian Muslims as their Muslim brothers, see what THEIR response is...... 

The Chinese "athiest" brothers helped Pakistan become a powerful nuclear weapons state that a 7× larger enemy can no longer challenge. However, the af-ghand "Muslims" are colluding with the KUFFAR idol worshipping hindus to try to harm Muslim Pakistan. 

Ummah doesn't exist. It's a fairy tale sold to low IQ Pakistanis.

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## masterchief_mirza

bl33d said:


> People here atleast know that both sides are involved in killings and justify them. Common people might not, but here people have access to more info than others right. But in case of china even that is pretty less, even we cant definitely say what goes on in xinjiang. Problem is china is a control state, hard to get any info, without info, speculative criticism. Its a dead end if china doesnt help, we cant force into china.


"Democracies" are worse as they make you believe you have free, unadulterated and unbiased information prior to every decision you make. Are you really so easily manipulated as to even try to sustain this false illusion of democratic nations by name actually engaging in fair and transparent processes? Gimme a break.

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## BL33D

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Yeah sure it is. Just ask bengalis, afghans & indian so called "Muslims" if they regard Pakistanis as their "fellow Muslim brothers" and see what the respond would be...............even better, ask the Saudis or other Gulfy Arabs if they regard Iranian Muslims as their Muslim brothers, see what THEIR response is......
> 
> The Chinese "athiest" brothers helped Pakistan become a powerful nuclear weapons state that a 7× larger enemy can no longer challenge. However, the af-ghand "Muslims" are colluding with the KUFFAR idol worshipping hindus to try to harm Muslim Pakistan.
> 
> Ummah doesn't exist. It's a fairy tale sold to low IQ Pakistanis.


Whole lot of bull sheet in this reply.


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## nang2

bl33d said:


> So you weigh things by how much resentment it will cause nd not if it is right or wrong morally


I have no interest in dealing with cosmic justice. And it is funny when this argument comes from an atheist.


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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> First of all, it is not a Muslim province. Your own bias gives this a new name. It is not even a province and it is definitely not a religious territory.
> 
> Second, again, you completely ignore non Muslims. As I said, don't expect things will all go in your way. Grow up!


lol Kid! like i said go read yr comment all over again! It is a Muslim Province and was independent too, was only absorbed through One China Policy in recent history during Mao's era!

Its also bordered on 3 sides with Muslim World! So u cant demolish any Mosques there regardless of how old/new they r. Im just using yr own argument against u, this is yr own yardstick! 

Thats why i said go read yr comment again to remind yrself properly of what u had written and then read yr comments now!

Yr embarrassing yrself without even realizing that!


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## BL33D

masterchief_mirza said:


> "Democracies" are worse as they make you believe you have free, unadulterated and unbiased information prior to every decision you make. Are you really so easily manipulated as to even try to sustain this false illusion of democratic nations by name actually engaging in fair and transparent processes? Gimme a break.


Yea cuz communism is better. The problems in a democracy can be solved with greater democracy. Can you say the same for communism? why do you guys hold elections in IR of Pakistan ?

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

bl33d said:


> Whole lot of bull sheet in this reply.





A bit like your independent proof which contradicted your claims of india having 55% of Kashmir.........


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## BL33D

nang2 said:


> I have no interest in dealing with cosmic justice. And it is funny when this argument comes from an atheist.


Yea it might be funny for people who dont use sound logic for their irrational decision and have the audacity to defend it.



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> A bit like your independent proof which contradicted your claims of india having 55% of Kashmir.........


And show me the 40% you had, now bugger off


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## Umair Nawaz

Nilgiri said:


> All this while you were blabbing that its China internal issue....and now you declare Xinjiang as "Muslim" province instead of Chinese one....and bring in Muslim world as argument?
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, dont bother too much with Umair, he's not the brightest tool in the shed:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't mention Karachi either, he gets triggered easily lol.
> 
> He is one of PDF more amusing characters though, try to enjoy the banter rather than take him seriously.


lo g aik orr aya! 

Why u indians r so keen into things which u have no business being in...Its b/w us and China not u......u care abt yr own country ie Babri Masjid!

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

bl33d said:


> Yea it might be funny for people who dont use sound logic for their irrational decision and have the audacity to defend it.
> 
> 
> And show me the 40% you had, now bugger off






I stated 35-40%, your independent evidence confirmed it..........

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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> lol Kid! like i said go read yr comment all over again! It is a Muslim Province and was independent too, was only absorbed through One China Policy in recent history during Mao's era!
> 
> Its also bordered on 3 sides with Muslim World! So u cant demolish any Mosques there regardless of how old/new they r. Im just using yr own argument against u, these r yr own words!
> 
> Thats why i said go read yr comment again to remind yrself properly of what u had written and then read yr comments now!
> 
> Yr embarrassing yrself without even realizing that!


Good God! Just how illiterate you have to be.


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## Umair Nawaz

bl33d said:


> Ya, cuz when that happen hindus and the whole indian society didnt cause an uproar against it, the whole thing did radically changed our society and laws, things dont get overlooked but they are subjected to scrutiny in india dear. Injustice was caused in that incident towards muslim then, and we recognize and condemn that. Why do you always see it from the point of view of the extremists in our society.


doesnt matter, nothing changed......it was all superficial.


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## masterchief_mirza

bl33d said:


> Ya, cuz when that happen hindus and the whole indian society didnt cause an uproar against it, the whole thing did radically changed our society and laws, things dont get overlooked but they are subjected to scrutiny in india dear. Injustice was caused in that incident towards muslim then, and we recognize and condemn that. Why do you always see it from the point of view of the extremists in our society.



Thanks for exposing yourself as a Hindutva fraud. Indian society doubled down on its anti Muslim pogrom after it became emboldened by Babri demolition. No such magical changes to society occurred.

In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but your PM by a landslide kind of just maybe possibly had some involvement with Babri demolition.

You're such a simpleton fraud. Very easily exposed.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

DeadSparrow said:


> Sure, if China allows the press the freedom then many victims of rape, murder and torture would be named.







Any evidence for your claims? If what you say is true then please post the links here.

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## nang2

bl33d said:


> Yea it might be funny for people who dont use sound logic for their irrational decision and have the audacity to defend it.


You sound just like a communist.


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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> Good God! Just how illiterate you have to be.


 Good! feeling is mutual......

go do as i said, and stop wasting my time with silly comments. Yr caught with yr pants down, u just cant digest it.

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## BL33D

Umair Nawaz said:


> doesnt matter, nothing changed......it was all superficial.


wow , that will help the non extremist opinion.


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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> Good! feeling is mutual......
> 
> go do as i said, and stop wasting my time with silly comments. Yr caught with yr pants down, u just cant digest it.


Whatever makes you happy. When you empty some emotion from your head, go read some history.


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## BL33D

nang2 said:


> You sound just like a communist.


Do i, Winnie the pooh, Winnie the pooh


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## masterchief_mirza

I'm amazed at your arrogance. Sitting there saying Babri resulted in some kind of introspection and repercussions and ultimate healing. My God who are you trying to kid? 

On the hot topic of media biases, in Hindustan and in the west, media reported that the Gujarat riots were "triggered" by the train fire..... Conveniently omitting the tiny detail of the Babri demolition by Hindus before the train attack. 

Incredible India.


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## nang2

bl33d said:


> Do i, Winnie the pooh, Winnie the pooh


Yeah, like any communist, a self-righteous person who wants to enforce cosmic justice on a tiny planet. A player of God.


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## BL33D

masterchief_mirza said:


> I'm amazed at your arrogance. Sitting there saying Babri resulted in some kind of introspection and repercussions and ultimate healing. My God who are you trying to kid?
> 
> On the hot topic of media biases, in Hindustan and in the west, media reported that the Gujarat riots were "triggered" by the train fire..... Conveniently omitting the tiny detail of the Babri demolition by Hindus before the train attack.
> 
> Incredible India.


So you are saying becoz some idiot extremists hindus broke a masjid it was okay to burn children and old people in a closed train. ( I condemn what happen after that too ) Sound morality. No wonder. I wont even reply to anything next cuz if people like you dont burn in hell who will, if at all hell exists.


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## Umair Nawaz

bl33d said:


> wow , that will help the non extremist opinion.


they r about to build ram mandir mister! i thought to tell u that if u havnt been following news from yr country.

As i said, it was superficial. So dont push it.

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## BL33D

nang2 said:


> Yeah, like any communist, a self-righteous person who wants to enforce cosmic justice on a tiny planet. A player of God.


All hail China, the next supa powa ( maybe already is )


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## El Sidd

Xinjiang will become a prosperous trade center soon Inshallah. 

It has always been the backbone of the Silk Trade Era.

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## nang2

bl33d said:


> All hail China, the next supa powa ( maybe already is )


This is just a weird response. Where is your "sound logic"?


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## BL33D

Umair Nawaz said:


> they r about to build ram mandir mister! i thought to tell u that if u havnt been following news from yr country.
> 
> As i said, it was superficial. So dont push it.


Well, if it was upto me , i would build all holy sites of every religion of india in that place to shut up all the hindu and muslim extremists. But alas, i dont have that power, but atleast dont hinder the voice of non extremist. That temple is a sad case. But we have thousands of better case where muslims and hindus have come together, i bet you would conveniently not know abou them.



nang2 said:


> This is just a weird response. Where is your "sound logic"?


I couldnt come up with anything better


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## masterchief_mirza

I hope you've learned something today about how media bias/ bias by omission works in shining democratic India. the whole Babri/Modi/Gujarat riot episode is an excellent case study. Please don't think we've forgotten. 

And don't think that by repeating "Muslims attacked the train so Gujarat riots were Muslims fault and the retaliation by Hindutva was disproportionately high but it was still just a very innocent and lovely retaliation to aggressive Muslims" over and over in your mind or in your press, that subcontinent's Muslims will ever forget the true timeline of events.



bl33d said:


> So you are saying becoz some idiot extremists hindus broke a masjid it was okay to burn children and old people in a closed train. ( I condemn what happen after that too ) Sound morality. No wonder. I wont even reply to anything next cuz if people like you dont burn in hell who will, if at all hell exists.


Haha you clown. I never said any of it was ok or good. I simply demand a correct version of the timeline of events so that your brainwashed narrative gets flushed down the toilet once and for all.

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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> Whatever makes you happy. When you empty some emotion from your head, go read some history.


i have enough knowledge of history my friend.....it used to be at times part of chinese empires in different dynasties in the same way it has the history of being part of Muslim Empires too and of being independent as well. Not all history taught in China is accurate, they teach it in a way to ensure the One China Policy, thats how thats shaped. How else do u think this name Turkestan has emerged?

yr not very aware of Turkic Tribal history which r the people of Central Asia.

Muslim World however does preserve its history as well. Anyways read yr own comment again, as it was u came up with such a novice argument NOT ME im just using yr own argument against u by using yr own yardstick of why it is fine to demolish Mosques in Xinjiang


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## BL33D

masterchief_mirza said:


> I hope you've learned something today about how media bias/ bias by omission works in shining democratic India. the whole Babri/Modi/Gujarat riot episode is an excellent case study. Please don't think we've forgotten.
> 
> And don't think that by repeating "Muslims attacked the train so Gujarat riots were Muslims fault and the retaliation by Hindutva was disproportionately high but it was still just a very innocent and lovely retaliation to aggressive Muslims" over and over in your mind or in your press, that subcontinent's Muslims will ever forget the true timeline of events.
> 
> 
> Haha you clown. I never said any of it was ok or good. I simply demand a correct version of the timeline of events so that your brainwashed narrative gets flushed down the toilet once and for all.


Dont forget, burn with hatred. Doesnt help anything or anyone. Nor the cause, nor the incident, nor the reconcilliation. You will only remember that, Remember what you did in Mumbai killing innocents, remember kesab, dont think we will forget it either. Such big talks mean nothing. Work for changing yourself. We will work towards changing us.


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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> i have enough knowledge of history my friend.....it used to be at times part of chinese empires in different dynasties in the same way it has the history of being part of Muslim Empires too and of being independent as well. Not all history taught in China is accurate, they teach it in a way to ensure the One China Policy, thats how thats shaped. How else do u think this name Turkestan has emerged?
> 
> yr not very aware of Turkic Tribal history which r the people of Central Asia.
> 
> Muslim World however does preserve its history as well. Anyways read yr own comment again, as it was u came up with such a novice argument NOT ME im just using yr own argument against u by using yr own yardstick of why it is fine to demolish Mosques in Xinjiang


Read some history before Mohammad was born.


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## fisher1

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Yeah sure it is. Just ask bengalis, afghans & indian so called "Muslims" if they regard Pakistanis as their "fellow Muslim brothers" and see what the respond would be...............even better, ask the Saudis or other Gulfy Arabs if they regard Iranian Muslims as their Muslim brothers, see what THEIR response is......
> 
> The Chinese "athiest" brothers helped Pakistan become a powerful nuclear weapons state that a 7× larger enemy can no longer challenge. However, the af-ghand "Muslims" are colluding with the KUFFAR idol worshipping hindus to try to harm Muslim Pakistan.



Outside of PDF, yeah. Can't say that about bengalis or Indians but I've met many Afghanis in real life and there are good and bad people there just like everyone else.

This sectarian and nationalistic hatred is spread and exploited by politicians only. Real people don't give a crap. All it takes is one cunt of a politician to spread extremism, bigotry and intolerance in a society like Modi did to India. People on both sides of the border wanted peace.





PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Ummah doesn't exist. It's a fairy tale sold to low IQ Pakistanis.



This concept of Ummah is sold to us by Islam. You think it's affairy tale sold to me - a low IQ Pakistani by Islam?

Sorry, i keep thinking you're a Muslim. If you're not, please let me know so i can respond appropriately and not bother you with Islamic concepts that you keep mocking.


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## Umair Nawaz

bl33d said:


> Well, if it was upto me , i would build all holy sites of every religion of india in that place to shut up all the hindu and muslim extremists. But alas, i dont have that power, but atleast dont hinder the voice of non extremist. That temple is a sad case. But we have thousands of better case where muslims and hindus have come together, i bet you would conveniently not know abou them.
> 
> 
> I couldnt come up with anything better


aint nobody has time for this shit dude, this is irrelevant discussion. i just thought to remind u of yr own country since u have a habit of poking yr nose into a lot of things.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

DeadSparrow said:


> Outside of PDF, yeah. Can't say that about bengalis or Indians but I've met many Afghanis in real life and there are good and bad people there just like everyone else.
> 
> This sectarian and nationalistic hatred is spread and exploited by politicians only. Real people don't give a crap. All it takes is one cunt of a politician to spread extremism, bigotry and intolerance in a society like Modi did to India. People on both sides of the border wanted peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This concept of Ummah is sold to us by Islam. You think it's affairy tale sold to me - a low IQ Pakistani by Islam?
> 
> Sorry, i keep thinking you're a Muslim. If you're not, please let me know so i can respond appropriately and not bother with you Islamic concepts that you keep mocking.






Ummah?.......Yeah, sure. So when are the Arabs and Palestinians going to condemn the indians for their atrocities against Kashmiri Muslims??????................or is the Ummah just an excuse to be Arab slaves? Non-Arab Muslims are worthless aren't they? ......

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## BL33D

Umair Nawaz said:


> aint nobody has time for this shit dude, this is irrelevant discussion. i just thought to remind u of yr own country since u have a habit of poking yr nose into a lot of things.


Oh so becoz i am from India i lose the right to discuss any topic related to Pakistan or China ?


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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> Read some history before Mohammad was born.


hahaha thats mostly primitive old and mostly non accurate history which isnt relevant to today's world kid1 aint nobody is interested in going into some stone age era anymore today.

yr not very aware of Turkic Tribal history which r the people of Central Asia and thats as old as Chinese history too.



bl33d said:


> Oh so becoz i am from India i lose the right to discuss any topic related to Pakistan or China ?


and u have a problem with that?

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## BL33D

Umair Nawaz said:


> aint nobody has time for this shit dude, this is irrelevant discussion. i just thought to remind u of yr own country since u have a habit of poking yr nose into a lot of things.


Hate me or not, i speak a lot of sense then many pakistani's and Indian's here. And admit to wrongs and right rather than parroting the state.



Umair Nawaz said:


> and u have a problem with that?


Shouldnt i ?


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## nang2

bl33d said:


> Oh so becoz i am from India i lose the right to discuss any topic related to Pakistan or China ?


Come on. Use some "sound logic" and don't be so sentimental. You never lose the right. You may at most lose some credit due to some assumed bias.


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## BL33D

nang2 said:


> Come on. Use some "sound logic" and don't be so sentimental. You never lose the right. You may at most lose some credit due to some assumed bias.


Okay with that but the topic got side tracked, its imminent where pakistanis and indians are present we will eventually bash each other rather than stay on the topic. Thats one fundamental truth of this universe.


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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> hahaha thats mostly primitive old and mostly non accurate history which isnt relevant to today's world kid1 aint nobody is interested in going into some stone age era anymore today.
> 
> yr not very aware of Turkic Tribal history which r the people of Central Asia and thats as old as Chinese history too.
> 
> 
> and u have a problem with that?


At least it may humble yourself to know things always change but not according to one's liking.


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## Umair Nawaz

bl33d said:


> Hate me or not, i speak a lot of sense then many pakistani's and Indian's here. And admit to wrongs and right rather than parroting the state.
> 
> 
> Shouldnt i ?


hey look, u dont find me opening threads abt rapes in india or even in commenting in them do u?
I comment on things relevant to me ie Pakistan, foreign policy international relation and development, strategic studies and planning as well as defence and history. I dont care if u admit to wrongs or right abt yr country it aint my issue, im least concern abt yr internal tassels im not even interested in my own country's......

Go talk to them who do care.

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## fisher1

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Ummah?.......Yeah, sure. So when are the Arabs and Palestinians going to condemn the indians for their atrocities against Kashmiri Muslims??????................or is the Ummah just an excuse to be Arab slaves? Non-Arab Muslims are worthless aren't they? ......



Don't think you read my post. Remove the cunt politicians and you will get a sea of Muslims who condemn India and Israel for their wrongdoings.

MBS, PM IK, Assad, these aren't the representatives of Ummah. They're driven by greed, money and couldn't give a crap if the whole Muslims population were wiped out as long as they get money for it. 

Have you bothered to ask a common Palestinian or Arab what they think of Kashmir?


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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> At least it may humble yourself to know things always change but not according to one's liking.


yeah i know thats yr main point, and i agree in principle, however i completely reject of what yr trying to imply hiding behind this argument.

If forbidden City, the symbol of Chinese Civilization or Communist Statues around it cant be destroyed or demolished by anyone, so cant the Religious and our Muslim Civilization's Mosques too.

Because what Forbidden City and Statues and monuments of Communism are to you, Mosques are to us Muslims as well.

In Islam Mosques have same status as Forbidden City has in Chinese Civilization! 

This was what i was trying to make u realize, that is why i said, its wrong to demolish them regardless of being old or new.

@nang2 do u know that Turkic people and u guys in China r basically cousins?

and even Mongols?

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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> yeah i know thats yr main point, and i agree in principle, however i completely reject of what yr trying to imply hiding behind this argument.
> 
> If forbidden City, the symbol of Chinese Civilization or Communist Statues around it cant be destroyed or demolished by anyone, so cant the Religious and our Muslim Civilization's Mosques too.
> 
> Because what Forbidden City and Statues and monuments of Communism are to you, Mosques are to us Muslims as well.
> 
> In Islam Mosques have same status as Forbidden City has in Chinese Civilization!
> 
> This was what i was trying to make u realize, that is why i said, its wrong to demolish them regardless of being old or new.


Your rejection is because you disregard other people. You only think of yourself or your "tribe". That is where we differ. I don't agree with simple mosque demolition, nor do I agree with eager mosque building at the expense of others. You only disagree with the former and have no issue with the latter. That is where your bias is. You make no effort to understand the thoughts of the other side or simply brush them away.



Umair Nawaz said:


> @nang2 do u know that Turkic people and u guys in China r basically cousins?
> 
> and even Mongols?


Of course. It is always those people who force to get things done in their way that alienate people who should really be relatives. It is always my opinion that people should be free to do whatever they want under a common set of rules, such as no killing, no stealing, no violence, etc. Unfortunately, Chinese Communist government disagree with me.


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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> *Your rejection is because you disregard other people. You only think of yourself or your "tribe".* That is where we differ. I don't agree with simple mosque demolition, nor do I agree with eager mosque building at the expense of others. You only disagree with the former and have no issue with the latter. That is where your bias is. You make no effort to understand the thoughts of the other side or simply brush them away.
> 
> 
> Of course. It is always those people who force to get things done in their way that alienate people who should really be relatives. It is always my opinion that people should be free to do whatever they want under a common set of rules, such as no killing, no stealing, no violence, etc. Unfortunately, Chinese Communist government disagree with me.


who planted this in yr head? or maybe thats yr own observation. U r living in west, there things with Muslims r different in places like these we Muslims prefer this strategy that yr referring to.

With China, Hispanic people or Asiatic Countries thing are very different, we have always been peaceful and have always been caring for eachother, our Prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him, even mentioned China by name, and said a very beautiful thing, that ''Seek knowledge even if u have to go as far as China''

He mentioned China in the context of knowledge and learning. We behave this way in west, as things r very different there, in East things r different for us thats why we dont behave that way here with countries in East including China, Havnt u seen why Pakistan which has always been a Pro western Country has always had time tested and steady Excellent Relations with China? There is one thing u need to realize abt us Muslims is that we r people of Strong faith and discipline, we behave like a tribe because we r united in how we live in terms of our way of life, it doesnt mean we look at u guys anything less then us or will eat u up one day, thats the western media's state propaganda that they have been spreading since past 19 years in which they have killed Millions of Millions of our people in the name of war on terror that i was earlier talking abt, and u can see my posts in this thread i had been constantly defending China even going against my own fellow Muslims and Countrymen, that was untill u posted that dumb comment about our Mosques. We are sensitive abt these things as our Mosques have same status as that of Forbidden City has in Chinese Civilization. The love and pride and honour u have for forbidden city is same we have for our Mosques!

Our fight is with these Jew and Christians or judochristians, we have been fighting with them on and off since Crusades 1000 years ago, Our Quran mentions them as our worst of the worst Enemies not Pagan/atheist Chinese etc....let us fight with them dont come in our way with things like in Xinjiang this will take over our focus from West into East, and it will not be good for China itself. Because its only us Muslims who r weakening them and hence giving an automatic space to China to exercise her influence and ensure her rise!

This is also the reason why we behave that way in west as u mentioned in yr comment, we dont behave like that in East or with Eastern Civilizations like China.

These Turkic people are yr cousins, im surprised that u knew abt it, but now since u do, so build good relations with them dont kill or convert them of their culture, because that culture is also related to Chinese Culture as well.

This is all i wanted to say to u and wanted u to understand. Thank You and Goodbye.

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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> who planted this in yr head? or maybe thats yr own observation. U r living in west, there things with Muslims r different in places like these we Muslims prefer this strategy that yr referring to.
> 
> With China, Hispanic people or Asiatic Countries thing are very different, we have always been peaceful and have always been caring for eachother, our Prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him, even mentioned China by name, and said a very beautiful thing, that ''Seek knowledge even if u have to go as far as China''
> 
> He mentioned China in the context of knowledge and learning. We behave this way in west, as things r very different there, in East things r different for us thats why we dont behave that way here with countries in East including China, Havnt u seen why Pakistan which has always been a Pro western Country has always had time tested and steady Excellent Relations with China? There is one thing u need to realize abt us Muslims is that we r people of Strong faith and discipline, we behave like a tribe because we r united in how we live in terms of our way of life, it doesnt mean we look at u guys anything less then us or will eat u up one day, thats the western media's state propaganda that they have been spreading since past 19 years in which they have killed Millions of Millions of our people in the name of war on terror that i was earlier talking abt, and u can see my posts in this thread i had been constantly defending China even going against my own fellow Muslims and Countrymen, that was untill u posted that dumb comment about our Mosques. We are sensitive abt these things as our Mosques have same status as that of Forbidden City has in Chinese Civilization. The love and pride and honour u have for forbidden city is same we have for our Mosques!
> 
> Our fight is with these Jew and Christians or judochristians, we have been fighting with them on and off since Crusades 1000 years ago, Our Quran mentions them as our worst of the worst Enemies not Pagan/atheist Chinese etc....let us fight with them dont come in our way with things like in Xinjiang this will take over our focus from West into East, and it will not be good for China itself. Because its only us Muslims who r weakening them and hence giving an automatic space to China to exercise her influence and ensure her rise!
> 
> This is also the reason why we behave that way in west as u mentioned in yr comment, we dont behave like that in East or with Eastern Civilizations like China.
> 
> These Turkic people are yr cousins, im surprised that u knew abt it, but now since u do, so build good relations with them dont kill or convert them of their culture, because that culture is also related to Chinese Culture as well.
> 
> This is all i wanted to say to u and wanted u to understand. Thank You and Goodbye.


All I have been trying to say is to stay calm. Collect more information before making judgements. Don't let your pride and honor shorten this process. Don't let your blood rush into your head the moment you hear "mosque demolition". Spend more time on figuring out what exactly has happened. The details are often surprising.

Being sensitive is not something to be proud of, at least not for men. I understand emotion but emotion should always follow reasoning, not the other way around. If Mohammad didn't teach that, at least Moses did.

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## fisher1

Umair Nawaz said:


> These Turkic people are yr cousins, im surprised that u knew abt it, but now since u do, so build good relations with them dont kill or convert them of their culture, because that culture is also related to Chinese Culture as well.



Dude, make up your mind already. You wrote walls of text telling me western propaganda blah blah and all of a sudden, you're telling him to not kill or convert them? Didn't you tell me none of that thing is happening and it's all western propaganda? 

China position is it's all good. There's not a single death or conversion of anyone. Everyone is happy and dancing in Xinjiang. How do you tell him to not kill or convert someone when you dismiss that crap as western propaganda? 

I think you're just confused and extremely ignorant about it. China denies demolishing mosques and we know they're demolishing mosques FROM THE SAME SATELLITE IMAGES that we found out they built these concentration camps. How the hell do you believe in one while dismiss the other as western propaganda??? 

Also as someone else pointed out your hypocrisy, this is a Chinese internal matter. What they do with mosques is their own problem, what do you care about it? You've made it extremely clear that nobody is believing Western propaganda (at least not you) anymore and your focus is on the judo Christians in the West who are the real culprits. 

There's so much contradictions in your posts, just make your mind and stick to that. You can't call this whole thing a western propaganda and in the next post flip like a pancake and believe in the same western propaganda and preach chinese what they're doing is wrong and then reverse the script once again and call it propaganda. Like what the? 

At this point, i don't even know what you believe.

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## Indos

polanski said:


> Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan and Indonesia publicly supported China's efforts on counterinsurgency and counter terrorism. So whatever you discussed here, doesn't matter to any OIC countries. In fact, MBS publicly supported Israel and China for counterinsurgency.
> 
> Why?
> Short answer: Saudi and Israeli have common threat in the region i.e. counter Iran.
> China is helping Saudi to develop long range ballistic missiles and nuclear payloads. Saudi wouldn't say a single word against counter terrorism efforts by China. Saudi themselves are facing Houthi terrorism at home.
> It's a done deal. It has nothing to do with Islam or religion.
> It's a need of Pakistan, Egypt, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia. It's a need of China to export military hardware in a highly competitive market.
> I personally don't care about people who strapped bomb on their body and kill children and women. Rohingya and Uyghurs must not be allowed to breed.



Indonesia doesnt support China policy in Xin Jiang


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## Place Of Space

Indos said:


> Indonesia doesnt support China policy in Xin Jiang



No Indonesia, someone must make it wrong. There are Russia, Korea, Cambodia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkmenstan, Cuba, Nigeria, Oman, Kuwait, Phillipines and some other nations I forget their names. All 37 nations issue a joint letter to UN expressing the support. While 22 nations against Chinese policy in Xinjiang are from the West and North America.

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## polanski

Indos said:


> Indonesia doesnt support China policy in Xin Jiang


https://thediplomat.com/2018/07/whats-next-for-china-indonesia-military-ties/

What on earth Indonesia get into trouble with China when Indonesia has major interest in military relationship. If you count bilateral trade then most Southeast Asian countries have no say on Uyghurs. African countries shut their mouth long time ago. Brazil and Argentina can't say anything or China won't buy iron ores.
Arabs won't say anything against biggest buyer of fosil fuels. 
Who left USA, Australia, NZ, EU.


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## Indos

polanski said:


> https://thediplomat.com/2018/07/whats-next-for-china-indonesia-military-ties/
> 
> What on earth Indonesia get into trouble with China when Indonesia has major interest in military relationship. If you count bilateral trade then most Southeast Asian countries have no say on Uyghurs. African countries shut their mouth long time ago. Brazil and Argentina can't say anything or China won't buy iron ores.
> Arabs won't say anything against biggest buyer of fosil fuels.
> Who left USA, Australia, NZ, EU.



I only said Indonesia government position that doesnt sign support letter on China handling on Uigyur which is sent to UN. Even Indonesia government is quite critical and has asked China about its Uigyur policy. Here is the news: 

*China responds to Indonesia’s question about alleged abuse of Xinjiang’s Muslims*

Dian Septiari
The Jakarta Post

Bandung / Thu, December 20, 2018 / 11:35 am 






Men dance in front of the Id Kah Mosque after morning prayers on June 26, 2017 during Idul Fitri in the old town of Kashgar in China's Xinjiang Uighur autonomous region. (Agence France -Presse/Johannes Esielle)

China has responded to Indonesia’s question about alleged human rights abuse against Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang, saying that Beijing guaranteed the religious freedom of all of its citizens, including the Uighurs. 

A Chinese Embassy spokesman in Jakarta said in a statement on Thursday that “China is a country with multiple ethnic groups and religions".

“As prescribed in the Constitution, all Chinese citizens enjoy the freedom of religious belief,” the statement said.

The statement said that the Chinese government was facing the threat of religious extremism in Xinjiang, which is home to about 14 million Muslims. Some Xinjiang residents, it said, had struggled to find jobs because of their poor command of the nation’s official language and lack of skills.

“This has made them vulnerable to the instigation and coercion of terrorism and extremism,” it said.

“In light of the situation, Xinjiang has established professional vocational training institutions as the platform, providing courses on China’s common language, legal knowledge, vocational skills, along with de-radicalization education for citizens influenced by extremist ideas.”

*Previously, the Foreign Ministry said it had summoned Chinese Ambassador to Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday to convey the concerns of Indonesian Muslims about the plight of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang.


“The Foreign Ministry stressed that in accordance with the universal declaration of human rights, religious freedom and belief are human rights and it is the responsibility of all countries to respect it,” ministry spokesperson Arrmanatha Nasir told reporters on the sidelines of the Diplofest event on Wednesday evening.*

He said Xiao Qian conveyed China’s commitment to the protection of human rights. In addition, the ambassador said it was very important for the Indonesian public to know the condition of the Uighurs in Xinjiang, an autonomous region.

“Even though it is a domestic issue, the Foreign Ministry noted the embassy’s intention to expand communication with various civil society groups in order to convey information about the condition of the Uighur community.”

The summons of the Chinese ambassador came shortly after Indonesian Islamic groups demanded an explanation on the situation in Xinjiang. 

Western countries have accused China of persecuting Uighurs through its “re-education centers”, which Beijing insisted were actually vocational and training centers that combat religious extremism. 

The situation in Xinjiang was highlighted during China’s third United Nations Human Rights Council’s universal periodic review last month.

Human Rights Watch says Uighur people in particular are subject to intense surveillance and are made to give DNA and biometric samples.

Muhammadiyah chairman Haedar Nashir said if the reports were true, then China had violated universal human rights and his organization was ready to mobilize humanitarian and material support for peace in Xinjiang, especially for the Uighur community.

”The Chinese government’s inaction is feared to hurt diplomatic relations between Indonesia and China, and the good relations our people have had for centuries,” Haedar said as quoted by Antara on Wednesday.

Social media messages calling on Indonesians to take to the streets to defend Uighurs have been circulating online in the last few days. 

On Monday, the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) advisory council leader and former chairman of Muhammadiyah, Din Syamsuddin, said the alleged crackdown was an outright violation of basic human rights and demanded that the Indonesian government take firm action to advocate for the Uighur people.

Responding to the MUI’s call, Vice President Jusuf Kalla said Indonesia would not interfere in China’s handling of Uighur Muslims.

“Of course we reject or [want to] prevent any human rights violations. However, we don’t want to intervene in the domestic affairs of another country,” Kalla told journalists on Monday.

The Chinese Embassy’s spokesman said that, “China and Indonesia have always supported each other on issues concerning respective major interests.

“I believe after knowing the real situation in Xinjiang, our Indonesian friends would better understand and support the Chinese government's efforts to combat terrorism and extremism and to safeguard stability and security in Xinjiang,” he said.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...about-alleged-abuse-of-xinjiangs-muslims.html

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## Umair Nawaz

DeadSparrow said:


> Dude, make up your mind already. You wrote walls of text telling me western propaganda blah blah and all of a sudden, you're telling him to not kill or convert them? Didn't you tell me none of that thing is happening and it's all western propaganda?
> 
> China position is it's all good. There's not a single death or conversion of anyone. Everyone is happy and dancing in Xinjiang. How do you tell him to not kill or convert someone when you dismiss that crap as western propaganda?
> 
> I think you're just confused and extremely ignorant about it. China denies demolishing mosques and we know they're demolishing mosques FROM THE SAME SATELLITE IMAGES that we found out they built these concentration camps. How the hell do you believe in one while dismiss the other as western propaganda???
> 
> Also as someone else pointed out your hypocrisy, this is a Chinese internal matter. What they do with mosques is their own problem, what do you care about it? You've made it extremely clear that nobody is believing Western propaganda (at least not you) anymore and your focus is on the judo Christians in the West who are the real culprits.
> 
> There's so much contradictions in your posts, just make your mind and stick to that. You can't call this whole thing a western propaganda and in the next post flip like a pancake and believe in the same western propaganda and preach chinese what they're doing is wrong and then reverse the script once again and call it propaganda. Like what the?
> 
> At this point, i don't even know what you believe.


quote me when i replay to yr posts, dont quote me into things and topics i post while quoting/talking to others............im trying to make him understand a point, and he understood in the end as i wanted him to understand.

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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> All I have been trying to say is to stay calm. Collect more information before making judgements. Don't let your pride and honor shorten this process. Don't let your blood rush into your head the moment you hear "mosque demolition". Spend more time on figuring out what exactly has happened. The details are often surprising.
> 
> Being sensitive is not something to be proud of, at least not for men. I understand emotion but emotion should always follow reasoning, not the other way around. If Mohammad didn't teach that, at least Moses did.


im calm! have been always in this thread, but i dont think u were though.

As i said! *These Turkic people are yr cousins, im surprised that u knew abt it, but now since u do, so build good relations with them dont kill or convert them of their culture, because that culture is also related to Chinese Culture as well.*

Goodbye!

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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> im calm! have been always in this thread, but i dont think u were though.
> 
> As i said! *These Turkic people are yr cousins, im surprised that u knew abt it, but now since u do, so build good relations with them dont kill or convert them of their culture, because that culture is also related to Chinese Culture as well.*
> 
> Goodbye!


I am surprised that you were surprised. I know Chinese history, which is filled with interaction with nomadic people, from Huns to Turks to Mongols, etc. Better yet, I actually grew up in XinJiang. I know both the kindness and stupidity of Uyghurs. When they are nice to you, they pour their hearts out. Offer you everything they have. Their purity and naivety often make them vulnerable to shrew villains who use them as pawns for their own sinister objectives.

When they are mad at you, they will cut you into pieces without giving you any chance to protest. It is an informal rule in the military that if a driver hits someone on the road in the predominately Uyghur neighborhood, RUN! You are right. Hit-and-run is not only practiced but also encouraged if the driver still wants to stay alive. Rule-of-law is not in their culture. When some dumb kids feel bored, they could sit at the curb and ask people who walk by on whether they like to have a fist fight. But the same kids also play soccer very well. The only time when I was robbed on the tip of a knife was done by Uyghur kids when I was in school.

You are right that their culture is also related to Chinese culture, but to a small degree. They don't live by the same culture rules as Chinese. For example, Chinese culture suppresses hot heads but ordinary Uyghurs are often hot heads. Chinese culture emphasizes greatly on formal education while Uyghurs don't. Their parents would let their kids roaming on the streets in the way that is unthinkable to Chinese parents, no matter how poor Chinese parents are. How much of that is attributed to Turkish culture or Islamic culture or pure poverty? I don't know.

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## Politico

nang2 said:


> I am surprised that you were surprised. I know Chinese history, which is filled with interaction with nomadic people, from Huns to Turks to Mongols, etc. Better yet, I actually grew up in XinJiang. I know both the kindness and stupidity of Uyghurs. When they are nice to you, they pour their hearts out. Offer you everything they have. Their purity and naivety often make them vulnerable to shrew villains who use them as pawns for their own sinister objectives. When they are mad at you, they will cut you into pieces without giving you any chance to protest. It is an informal rule in the military that if a driver hits someone on the road in the predominately Uyghur neighborhood, RUN! You are right. Hit-and-run is not only practiced but also encouraged if the driver wants to still be alive. Rule-of-law is not in their culture. When some dumb kids feel bored, they could sit at the curb and ask people who walk by on whether they like to have a fist fight. But the same kids also play soccer very well. The only time when I was robbed on the tip of a knife was done by Uyghur kids when I was in school.



So, is it fine then to place them in concentration camps and torture them since they are "barbaric" by Han standards?


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## nang2

Politico said:


> So, is it fine then to place them in concentration camps and torture them since they are "barbaric" by Han standards?


If the "barbarity" is threatening the order, yes. In fact, if it were up to me, I wouldn't use concentration camps. I would use prisons. That is what law enforcement should do. Chinese government is facing the typically tough situation as any government does to face insurgency. In fact, what Uyghurs are practicing is insurgency. Those terrorists or insurgents are hiding in Uyghur communities and protected by Uyghur people. Don't tell me they are peaceful people. But Chinese government doesn't want to admit it so they choose some middle ground. Back in 1950s, Chinese army actually rolled tanks on the streets and opened fire to suppress insurgency.


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## Politico

nang2 said:


> If the "barbarity" is threatening the order, yes. In fact, if it were up to me, I wouldn't use concentration camps. I would use prisons. That is what law enforcement should do. Chinese government is facing the typically tough situation as any government does to face insurgency. In fact, what Uyghurs are practicing is insurgency. Those terrorists or insurgents are hiding in Uyghur communities and protected by Uyghur people. Don't tell me they are peaceful people. But Chinese government doesn't want to admit it so they choose some middle ground. Back in 1950s, Chinese army actually rolled tanks on the streets and opened fire to suppress insurgency.



If you support a military which rolls tanks on the streets to shoot protestors then that must end our discussion. You're beyond hope

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## nang2

Politico said:


> If you support a military which rolls tanks on the streets to shoot protestors then that must end our discussion. You're beyond hope


Even in 1950s, Chinese army didn't shoot protestors. They shot those armed insurgents. In recent XinJiang, targets should be those axe and knife waving terrorists and those who protect them. In fact, Han people in XinJiang also fought back with knife and sticks but they were suppressed by paramilitary. Apparently, you would prefer military not be involved at all and let people fight with each other, like those happened in India, wouldn't you?


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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> I am surprised that you were surprised. I know Chinese history, which is filled with interaction with nomadic people, from Huns to Turks to Mongols, etc. Better yet, I actually grew up in XinJiang. I know both the kindness and stupidity of Uyghurs. When they are nice to you, they pour their hearts out. Offer you everything they have. Their purity and naivety often make them vulnerable to shrew villains who use them as pawns for their own sinister objectives.
> 
> When they are mad at you, they will cut you into pieces without giving you any chance to protest. It is an informal rule in the military that if a driver hits someone on the road in the predominately Uyghur neighborhood, RUN! You are right. Hit-and-run is not only practiced but also encouraged if the driver still wants to stay alive. Rule-of-law is not in their culture. When some dumb kids feel bored, they could sit at the curb and ask people who walk by on whether they like to have a fist fight. But the same kids also play soccer very well. The only time when I was robbed on the tip of a knife was done by Uyghur kids when I was in school.
> 
> You are right that their culture is also related to Chinese culture, but to a small degree. They don't live by the same culture rules as Chinese. For example, Chinese culture suppresses hot heads but ordinary Uyghurs are often hot heads. Chinese culture emphasizes greatly on formal education while Uyghurs don't. Their parents would let their kids roaming on the streets in the way that is unthinkable to Chinese parents, no matter how poor Chinese parents are. How much of that is attributed to Turkish culture or Islamic culture or pure poverty? I don't know.


Actually Turk people r like that everywhere, They live in Pakistan too actually, Uyghurs Turks who settled here since 50s, then there r proper Turkic people, like the one u see in my profile picture, That was my best Friend, who was martyred in Operation Zarb e Azb in 15 july 2014, he was in special forces.

So i hear what yr trying to say, and i have noticed that too, When i had gone to turkey, i had noticed this attitude in them as well. U can even see the Turkish members here, they too r hot headed.

My conclusion is that this is their ethnic personality trait. But in Pakistan, the solution that we have developed, is that we hire them into law enforcement agencies and military, where we can channel their aggression into a proper discipline, that way they learn to control their temper, and we make them unleash that into the battlefield where it is required!

Let me give u an example! in 2009's Operation Rah e Nejaad in Swat, the terrorists were most scared of the units of our Northern Light Infantry (NLI) after the operation, at ceasefire negotiations at that time, they had specially put a condition to make these NLI units go away as they have totally demoralized their fighters.

The reason why they said was because they had done such type of attacks and did them in such type of tactics that really broke their spirits. Whenever they used to catch a Militant Sniper, they used to never kill him(a military protocol for enemy snipers) or take them as prisoners, but used to take their both eyes out, and then used to send them back to their militant held area all by themselves, all alone bleeding and being blind.

Those TTP fellows r brutal themselves they r known for taking heads off to every soldier or civilian they captured, but even those savages got sacred and demoralized as to what these Turkic Warriors of Pakistan did to them! They made them feel like a child in sheer savagery and brutality!!!! hence the demoralization.


So r u getting my point? use this unique personality trait of their's for the benefit of China! help them channelize this hot headedness and aggression into something useful by recruiting them into military and for the protection of China!

Think abt it, if there was just one unit of these warriors in Hong Kong right now, then tell me who dared there to come out and do all those thing that they r doing and whatever they r saying against China? Heck! even in South China sea these people in Navy would have made Americans look like a little bitch pussy despite all their might in technology.

These people can prove to be an asset to yr country, dont waste them!

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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> Actually Turk people r life that everywhere, They live in Pakistan too actually, Uyghurs Turks who settled here since 50s, then there r proper Turkic people, like the one u see in my profile picture, That was my best Friend, who was martyred in Operation Zarb e Azb in 15 july 2014, he was in special forces.
> 
> So i hear what yr trying to say, and i have noticed that too, When i had gone to turkey, i had noticed this attitude in them as well. U can even see the Turkish members here, they too r hot headed.
> 
> My conclusion is that this is their ethnic personality trait. But in Pakistan, the solution that we have developed is that we hire them into law enforcement agencies and military, where we can channel their aggression into a proper discipline that way they learn to control their temper, and we make them unleash that into the battlefield where it is required!
> 
> Let me give u can example! in 2009's Operation Rah e Nejaad in Swat, the terrorists were most scared of the units of our Northern Light Infantry (NLI) after the operation in ceasefire negotiations at that time they had specially put a condition to make these NLI units go away as they have totally demoralized their fighters.
> 
> They reason why he said was because they had done such type of attacks and did them in such type of tactics that really broke their spirits. Whenever they used to catch a Militant Sniper, they used to never kill him, but used to take his both eyes out, and then used to send them back to their militant held area all by themselves all alone bleeding and being blind.
> 
> Those TTP fellows r brutal themselves they r known for taking heads off to every soldier or civilian they captured, but even those savages got sacred and demoralized as to what these Turkic Warriors of Pakistan did to them! They made them feel like a child in sheer savagery and brutality!!!! hence the demoralization.
> 
> 
> So r u getting my point? use this unique personality trait of their's for the benefit of China too! help them channelize this hot headedness and aggression into something useful by recruiting them into military and for the protection of China!
> 
> Think abt it, if there was just one unit of these warriors in Hong Kong right now, then tell me who dared there to come out and do all those thing and whatever they r saying against China? Heck! even in South China sea these people in Navy would have made Americans look like a little bitch phussy despite all their might in technology.
> 
> These people can prove to be an asset to yr country, dont waste them!


Before employing them in military, you can actually recruit them in sports. XinJiang's basketball team has been very successful in recent years: 5 times in the final and one time national champion.

I blame Chinese government the most for the recent tension in that region. They adopted some very stupid policy that swings between two stupid ends. Both are counter-productive. First, they tried to suppress the local disobedience by force. That only bought some time. Then, they tried to bribe them with irrationally lenient law enforcement. That didn't help make them disciplined. They became more demanding, which led to more dissatisfaction and eventual insurgency. Now, they try to use force again. The whole thing just goes back and forth without any progress.

Such a stupid policy has its very root in communism. They simply don't understand people with different ideology. Their goal is to eradicate anything that is not communistic. The impatience with the world combined with their self-righteousness makes them ruthless. Just see how Engels regarded those workmen who still supported capitalistic system and you will get an idea. In a way, it is similar to those who are eager to spread Islam by way of force. 

The religious freedom written in China constitution is just to give some faux appearance. They would never consider those religious folks as the same people as themselves. For Uyghurs, it is even worse since they not only think differently, they also look differently. How can you win their trust with such an attitude? For them, freedom under the rule of law is unthinkable.

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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> Before employing them in military, you can actually recruit them in sports. XinJiang's basketball team has been very successful in recent years: 5 times in the final and one time national champion.
> 
> I blame Chinese government the most for the recent tension in that region. They adopted some very stupid policy that swings between two stupid ends. Both are counter-productive. First, they tried to suppress the local disobedience by force. That only bought some time. Then, they tried to bribe them with irrationally lenient law enforcement. That didn't help make them disciplined. They became more demanding, which led to more dissatisfaction and eventual insurgency. Now, they try to use force again. The whole thing just goes back and forth without any progress.
> 
> Such a stupid policy has its very root in communism. They simply don't understand people with different ideology. Their goal is to eradicate anything that is not communistic. The impatience with the world combined with their self-righteousness makes them ruthless. Just see how Engels regarded those workmen who still supported capitalistic system and you will get an idea. In a way, it is similar to those who are eager to spread Islam by way of force.
> 
> The religious freedom written in China constitution is just to give some faux appearance. They would never consider those religious folks as the same people as themselves. For Uyghurs, it is even worse since they not only think differently, they also look differently. How can you win their trust with such an attitude? For them, freedom under the rule of law is unthinkable.


Yeah i agree, sports is another place for them, any place where there is a constant tussle and physical competition is there place! They r the type of people who like to compete and always try to win in any situation.

The reason for Chinese government of this attitude is that, China has been a closed society culturally and politically since past 2000 years. There has been little to no interaction with the World besides mere trade relations thanks to old Silk route. So they havnt interacted much with World civilizations, so they like to live in their own World, and its not just china actually, i observed that in Iran, India, East Asia too with exception of Japan and Korea. Inter Civilizational relations had been missing where u could observe other civilizations, they way of lives and their way of doing things and how they specially deal with problems when they r stuck with certain stubborn people, they actually take advantage of such ''different'' people as they see them giving them a different opinion of life and hence be able to present an out of box solution to any problem they face, since they see things differently and have a different angle to everything that the rest of people do, so they use that to their advantage.

But i think i know why the Chinese government today does that, i guess that comes from the Old One China Policy of Mao. Because by One China, they mean totally One China, not just geographically but culturally, socially and mentally too! Basically in every shape or form.

This is just my opinion i maybe wrong too.

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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> Yeah i agree, sports is another place for them, any place where there is a constant tussle and physical competition is there place! They r the type of people who like to compete and always try to win in any situation.
> 
> The reason for Chinese government of this attitude is that, China has been a closed society culturally and politically since past 2000 years. There has been little to no interaction with the World besides mere trade relations thanks to old Silk route. So they havnt interacted much with World civilizations, so they like to live in their own World, and its not just china actually, i observed that in Iran, India, East Asia too with exception of Japan and Korea. Inter Civilizational relations had been missing where u could observe other civilizations, they way of lives and their way of doing things and how they specially deal with problems when they r stuck with certain stubborn people, they actually take advantage of such ''different'' people as they see them giving them a different opinion of life and hence be able to present an out of box solution to any problem they face, since they see things differently and have a different angle to everything that the rest of people do, so they use that to their advantage.
> 
> But i think i know why the Chinese government today does that, i guess that comes from the Old One China Policy of Mao. Because by One China, they mean totally One China, not just geographically but culturally, socially and mentally too! Basically in every shape or form.
> 
> This is just my opinion i maybe wrong too.


Actually, that is not the reason. China has been a closed society but so has been every other country. In ancient time, travel wasn't easy. Most people only knew what was around them. Cultural interaction was mostly driven by trade and war, in which people traveled far, against all odds. China didn't lack either trade or war and its territory has been altered dramatically over time. Shrink, expand, shrink again, expand again. In addition, China didn't have state religion. People practiced all kinds of religions. The state only sponsored one religion for a very brief period. No religion ever dominated. It helped Chinese to develop their distinct trait: pragmatism. Basically whatever works. And Chinese will risk their lives to look for whatever that works. 

The attitude from Chinese government is a breach of such a trait by introducing a state religion: communism. Just like all other religions, once it is state sponsored, it no longer tolerates the existence of other religions. The recent economic reform is a recess back to the "national" trait. It embraced capitalism with a straight face under the flag of socialism, which is probably unthinkable to democratic countries. But Chinese don't care much of it. Whatever works.


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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> Actually, that is not the reason. China has been a closed society but so has been every other country. In ancient time, travel wasn't easy. Most people only knew what was around them. Cultural interaction was mostly driven by trade and war, in which people traveled far, against all odds. China didn't lack either trade or war and its territory has been altered dramatically over time. Shrink, expand, shrink again, expand again. In addition, China didn't have state religion. People practiced all kinds of religions. The state only sponsored one religion for a very brief period. No religion ever dominated. It helped Chinese to develop their distinct trait: pragmatism. Basically whatever works. And Chinese will risk their lives to look for whatever that works.
> 
> The attitude from Chinese government is a breach of such a trait by introducing a state religion: communism. Just like all other religions, once it is state sponsored, it no longer tolerates the existence of other religions. The recent economic reform is a recess back to the "national" trait. It embraced capitalism with a straight face under the flag of socialism, which is probably unthinkable to democratic countries. But Chinese don't care much of it. Whatever works.


actually communism isnt the problem! One China Policy is, i standby that. Yr probably saying that because yr life in west is getting into yr head! China isnt the only communist Country too, and in others there is no such problem. This problem is only unique to China as well.


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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> actually communism isnt the problem! One China Policy is, i standby that. Yr probably saying that because yr life in west is getting into yr head! China isnt the only communist Country too, and in others there is no such problem. This problem is only unique to China as well.


Such a policy is practiced by every country that has unsettled territory claim, though it may take a different name. And, you have missed an important fact. Soviet had the same problem as China has.


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## Solomon2

*North Korea, Syria and Myanmar among countries defending China's actions in Xinjiang*
*


By Joshua Berlinger, CNN

Updated 1:39 AM ET, Mon July 15, 2019













*
CNN captures rare images China doesn't want you to see 06:11
(CNN)Ambassadors representing 37 countries praised China for its "remarkable achievements in the field of human rights, 
just a day after a group of 22 other countries formally condemned Beijing for the mass detention of ethnic and religious minorities in the country's Xinjiang region.

The Thursday letter was the first major collective international challenge to China's ongoing policy in its far western border region, where experts estimate up to 2 million people have been detained in vast re-education style camps. Many of those detained are ethnic Uyghurs and Muslims.
Beijing denies any allegations of torture or political indoctrination, and says the camps are "vocational training centers" designed to fight terrorism and combat Islamic extremism.
China's partners backed that claim in their Friday letter, claiming the signatories to the Thursday statement were politicizing human rights issues, according to China's state-run Xinhua news agency.

In their letter, the 37 envoys commended China's efforts in "protecting human and promoting human rights through development," echoing a common refrain used in Chinese state media.
"The past three consecutive years has seen not a single terrorist attack in Xinjiang and people there enjoy a stronger sense of happiness, fulfillment and security," the envoys said.
*




*
The people affected by detention camps in China 04:55

The countries backing China included several accused of human rights violations. Among those listed are Saudi Arabia, accused of jailing and executing dissidents and critics of the regime; Russia, accused of cracking down on individual freedoms and killing critics of President Vladimir Putin; Myanmar, accused of carrying out crimes against humanity targeting the minority Rohingya community inside the country; Syria, where the Bashar al Assad regime has been accused of using chemical weapons against civilians; and North Korea, which is accused of detaining more than 100,000 political prisoners in a gulag-like facilities.

"The pro-China signatories include a rogues' gallery of rights abusing countries that have zero credibility when it comes to human rights," Elaine Pearson of Human Rights Watch said in a statement.
Pearson said it appears the letter criticizing China "touched a nerve."
"Clearly the Chinese government is feeling so insecure that it needs to issue a statement praising itself," she said.
*
'Sensitive and concerned'*
Allegations of torture inside the Xinjiang camps are rampant. Accounts given to CNN by former detainees describe forced reeducation under the threat of violence.
The reports, however, have been difficult to independently corroborate. Though the Chinese government has provided limited access to journalists and foreign diplomats in strictly guided tours of the facilities, access to Xinjiang is tightly controlled, amid growing surveillance and a prominent police presence.
*



*
China tries to thwart CNN probe into detention camps 03:56

Top UN officials including Michelle Bachelet have called for the global body to be given access to the camps to investigate allegations of human rights abuses.
James Leibold, a professor at Australia's La Trobe University who specializes in modern Chinese history and society, said Beijing is likely seeking help from its international partners in order to bolster its arguments
"They've always been sensitive and concerned about how they are viewed internationally, and I think the entire Xinjiang story and the amount of press it's gotten internationally has really disturbed policy makers in Beijing," Leibold said.
"It's not enough for them to say it themselves, they want to get their allies and supporters internationally to also back that claim ... particularly in the Muslim world, where I think they need to make sure that the wider Islamic community doesn't start to question what's happening in Xinjiang, to see China as anti-Islam."
The Thursday letter expressing concern about "credible reports of arbitrary detention ... as well as widespread surveillance and restrictions" was co-signed by mostly Western and European countries.
*
The 37 countries who signed the letter backing China included several Muslim majority nations, including Saudi Arabia, Syria, Qatar, the UAE, Bahrain, Sudan and Pakistan.

CNN's Yong Xiong, Jadyn Sham and Ben Westcott contributed reporting
*


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## Umair Nawaz

nang2 said:


> Such a policy is practiced by every country that has unsettled territory claim, though it may take a different name. And, you have missed an important fact. Soviet had the same problem as China has.


explain?



Solomon2 said:


> *North Korea, Syria and Myanmar among countries defending China's actions in Xinjiang*
> *
> 
> 
> By Joshua Berlinger, CNN
> 
> Updated 1:39 AM ET, Mon July 15, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> CNN captures rare images China doesn't want you to see 06:11
> (CNN)Ambassadors representing 37 countries praised China for its "remarkable achievements in the field of human rights,
> just a day after a group of 22 other countries formally condemned Beijing for the mass detention of ethnic and religious minorities in the country's Xinjiang region.
> 
> The Thursday letter was the first major collective international challenge to China's ongoing policy in its far western border region, where experts estimate up to 2 million people have been detained in vast re-education style camps. Many of those detained are ethnic Uyghurs and Muslims.
> Beijing denies any allegations of torture or political indoctrination, and says the camps are "vocational training centers" designed to fight terrorism and combat Islamic extremism.
> China's partners backed that claim in their Friday letter, claiming the signatories to the Thursday statement were politicizing human rights issues, according to China's state-run Xinhua news agency.
> 
> In their letter, the 37 envoys commended China's efforts in "protecting human and promoting human rights through development," echoing a common refrain used in Chinese state media.
> "The past three consecutive years has seen not a single terrorist attack in Xinjiang and people there enjoy a stronger sense of happiness, fulfillment and security," the envoys said.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> The people affected by detention camps in China 04:55
> 
> The countries backing China included several accused of human rights violations. Among those listed are Saudi Arabia, accused of jailing and executing dissidents and critics of the regime; Russia, accused of cracking down on individual freedoms and killing critics of President Vladimir Putin; Myanmar, accused of carrying out crimes against humanity targeting the minority Rohingya community inside the country; Syria, where the Bashar al Assad regime has been accused of using chemical weapons against civilians; and North Korea, which is accused of detaining more than 100,000 political prisoners in a gulag-like facilities.
> 
> "The pro-China signatories include a rogues' gallery of rights abusing countries that have zero credibility when it comes to human rights," Elaine Pearson of Human Rights Watch said in a statement.
> Pearson said it appears the letter criticizing China "touched a nerve."
> "Clearly the Chinese government is feeling so insecure that it needs to issue a statement praising itself," she said.
> *
> 'Sensitive and concerned'*
> Allegations of torture inside the Xinjiang camps are rampant. Accounts given to CNN by former detainees describe forced reeducation under the threat of violence.
> The reports, however, have been difficult to independently corroborate. Though the Chinese government has provided limited access to journalists and foreign diplomats in strictly guided tours of the facilities, access to Xinjiang is tightly controlled, amid growing surveillance and a prominent police presence.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> China tries to thwart CNN probe into detention camps 03:56
> 
> Top UN officials including Michelle Bachelet have called for the global body to be given access to the camps to investigate allegations of human rights abuses.
> James Leibold, a professor at Australia's La Trobe University who specializes in modern Chinese history and society, said Beijing is likely seeking help from its international partners in order to bolster its arguments
> "They've always been sensitive and concerned about how they are viewed internationally, and I think the entire Xinjiang story and the amount of press it's gotten internationally has really disturbed policy makers in Beijing," Leibold said.
> "It's not enough for them to say it themselves, they want to get their allies and supporters internationally to also back that claim ... particularly in the Muslim world, where I think they need to make sure that the wider Islamic community doesn't start to question what's happening in Xinjiang, to see China as anti-Islam."
> The Thursday letter expressing concern about "credible reports of arbitrary detention ... as well as widespread surveillance and restrictions" was co-signed by mostly Western and European countries.
> *
> The 37 countries who signed the letter backing China included several Muslim majority nations, including Saudi Arabia, Syria, Qatar, the UAE, Bahrain, Sudan and Pakistan.
> 
> CNN's Yong Xiong, Jadyn Sham and Ben Westcott contributed reporting*


BTW the where is yr israel? whom did it voted for?


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## nang2

Umair Nawaz said:


> explain?


Soviet had the same problem with its Muslim population. The moment when Soviet's grip was loosen, the separatists had their "fun". Comparatively, Soviet was much tougher on its Muslim population than China and both had the same insurgency when their control was weaken, either involuntarily or voluntarily.

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## j20blackdragon

Anti-China trolls and haters are having a collective heart attack.

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## Numerous



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## vi-va

j20blackdragon said:


> Anti-China trolls and haters are having a collective heart attack.


A map is better than 1000 words. Good job. Can we compare the population between countries condemn China and defend China?

As human rights concerns, all men(women) are equal. Populations should be the most important factor in this regard.

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## CHN Bamboo

*Ambassadors from 50 countries voice support for China's position on issues related to Xinjiang*
Source: Xinhua| 2019-07-27 17:31:08|Editor: huaxia​GENEVA, July 27 (Xinhua) -- Ambassadors from 50 countries to the United Nations Office at Geneva (UNOG) have co-signed a letter to the President of the UN Human Rights Council (HRC) and the High Commissioner for Human Rights to voice their support for China's position on issues related to its Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region.

Earlier on July 12, a number of ambassadors in Geneva sent the joint letter to show their support for China, and as of Friday evening, more ambassadors had joined, the Chinese Mission to the UNOG revealed.

In a statement issued on Friday night, the Chinese mission said that some other countries had also expressed their support in separate letters or press statements.

In the joint letter, the ambassadors commend China for its economic and social progress, effective counter-terrorism and de-radicalization measures, and strong guarantee of human rights.

They appreciate the opportunities provided by China for diplomatic envoys, officials of international organizations, and media professionals to visit Xinjiang, and point to the contrast between Xinjiang in the eyes of those who have visited it and the one portrayed by some western media.

The ambassadors also urge a certain group of countries to stop using uncorroborated information to make unfounded accusations against China.

"I was surprised that some people call these vocational training and education centers concentration or internment camps," Vadim Pisarevich, deputy permanent representative of Belarus to the UNOG, told Xinhua.

"They're nothing of the kind. They look like ordinary educational facilities and even I said that they are more than this because they provide life skills training to the students," Pisarevich said.

They are "very useful institutions for addressing the problems of terrorism, extremism and separatism," he said.

"Terrorism and extremism are an intractable challenge across the world. In the face of its grave threat, Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region responded with a number of lawful steps, including setting up vocational education and training centers, to prevent and combat terrorism and extremism," the Chinese Mission to the UNOG said in its statement.

"Facts speak louder than words, and justice cannot be overshadowed. The great diversity of countries co-signing the letter -- from Asia, Africa, Latin America, and Europe, especially the OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation) -- makes it clear that the international community has drawn a fair conclusion about Xinjiang's human rights achievement and counter-terrorism and de-radicalization outcome," the statement said.

"Those that seek to use human rights as an excuse to slander and pressure China have only themselves to deceive," it added.

"We oppose any attempt to use human rights issues as a cover for interference in a country's internal affairs. We urge those who are doing so to change course, refrain from politicization and double standards, and stop interfering in the internal affairs of other countries under the pretext of human rights," it said.

At a press conference on Friday, China's Ambassador to the UNOG Chen Xu also rebuked some Western nations for slandering China over Xinjiang, noting that China doesn't accept these "groundless accusations."

Jamshed Khamidov, head of Tajikistan's mission in Geneva, said his government opposes any attempts to use the Human Rights Council for particular political purposes, and efforts should be made to avoid any politicization of the Human Rights Council.

"We know the situation in the Xinjiang region. We know how much the government of China is doing ... and what kind of measures were implemented in this region to support its peace, security and development," he said.

In visits to the vocational training and education centers in Xinjiang's Urumqi and Kashi, Zenon Mukongo Ngay, head of the Democratic Republic of Congo's mission in Geneva, said he was impressed with the "level of development" in Xinjiang and how the people in the centers receive education for getting a job.

The Chinese mission also said that together with all parties, China is committed to promoting the healthy development of the international human rights cause by encouraging multilateral human rights institutions to stick to the purpose and principles of the UN Charter, handle human rights issues in an objective, impartial and non-selective manner, and engage in constructive dialogues and cooperation.

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## denel

I have been saying all along the situation is very very dire for moslems in Xinjiang. This is a good inside view. You can see mosques are locked up even in ramadhan. Where are all the uighur people in kasghar or Hotan - all disappeared for re-education.






_Mod edit: Inappropriate posting/words/provocation. _

This is not only here but is now spreading to Xian as well. Please pass along the video.

My prayers are for and with the moslems of Xinjiang and hope that this trial will pass. The prayers for the Lord of Abraham will continue to echo across Xinjiang.
Amen.

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## HAIDER

denel said:


> I have been saying all along the situation is very very dire for moslems in Xinjiang. This is a good inside view. You can see mosques are locked up even in ramadhan. Where are all the uighur people in kasghar or Hotan - all disappeared for re-education.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese party PLA trolls - piss off and will not be responding as you are all on ignore list.
> 
> This is not only here but is now spreading to Xian as well. Please pass along the video.
> 
> My prayers are for and with the moslems of Xinjiang and hope that this trial will pass. The prayers for the Lord of Abraham will continue to echo across Xinjiang.
> Amen.


Can control the human body, but not its mind.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Iron brother syndrome in Pakistan will also wear off. Just you wait. Only a matter of 4-5 years before Pakistan ends up another Cambodia or Sri Lanka.


denel said:


> I have been saying all along the situation is very very dire for moslems in Xinjiang. This is a good inside view. You can see mosques are locked up even in ramadhan. Where are all the uighur people in kasghar or Hotan - all disappeared for re-education.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese party PLA trolls - piss off and will not be responding as you are all on ignore list.
> 
> This is not only here but is now spreading to Xian as well. Please pass along the video.
> 
> My prayers are for and with the moslems of Xinjiang and hope that this trial will pass. The prayers for the Lord of Abraham will continue to echo across Xinjiang.
> Amen.



Ive said it before right here on PDF 
And I'll say it again.
India, China, Syria and Burma are petri dish experiments carried out by Dajjalic forces. It's only beginning of hard times for global muslim population.

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## Riyaz Syed

You not see Pakistanis asking Uighur muslims to pick up arms like they ask from Muslim Indians

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## war&peace

denel said:


> I have been saying all along the situation is very very dire for *moslems* in Xinjiang.


Hey the word is not moslem (which western people use in a derisive way) and it should be capitalised. It is Muslim.


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## kankan326

Do you remember when the last terrorists attack happened in China? It's been a long time. We are safe now.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Wish India could do the same in Kashmir Valley. Wish we had the balls. Send them all to re-education camps. We are too humanitarian I guess.

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## Ahmet Pasha

You call protest and dissent terrorism. Like Israel you have found a convenience in using the wirds interchangeably.


kankan326 said:


> Do you remember when the last terrorists attack happened in China? It's been a long time. We are safe now.

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## denel

war&peace said:


> Hey the word is not moslem (which you people use in derisive way) and it should be capitalised. It is Muslim.


sure. duly noted, i will correct to use right way.



kankan326 said:


> Do you remember when the last terrorists attack happened in China? It's been a long time. We are safe now.


You go to the point of putting entire population into mental camps where beatings, not to mention abortion are being forced on women. You are truely a pathetic people at the end of the day. 
You are trying to rob people of their identify; guess what Soviets tried and failed. Too bad, voice of our lord will prevail against your atheist god of Mao.



Ahmet Pasha said:


> You call protest and dissent terrorism. Like Israel you have found a convenience in using the wirds interchangeably.


Correct and they have bought entire countries in debt to them who cannot say anything to protest - may it be Pak, most african countries including asians.
You just have to pull Food ranger's video blogs from 2-3 years ago into Xinjiang and compare. A huge contrasts - mosques were full and entire cities villages markets bustling. now it is ghosts that are around.
My friend who travels every year there for the first time said, situation is very dire for muslims in China.



Ahmet Pasha said:


> Iron brother syndrome in Pakistan will also wear off. Just you wait. Only a matter of 4-5 years before Pakistan ends up another Cambodia or Sri Lanka.
> 
> 
> Ive said it before right here on PDF
> And I'll say it again.
> India, China, Syria and Burma are petri dish experiments carried out by Dajjalic forces. It's only beginning of hard times for global muslim population.


Correct; CPEC or the Silk Road is nothing more than a conduit for the Chinese strategy to take over by putting nations into severe debt to China they will say nothing and provide a means to their ends. 
China is the biggest threat to all developing nations. We see it here how they deliberately decimated our industries by dumping and taking our jobs away. On this one, I am with Trump; hit them hard ... so hard that it becomes a lesson for others to take the initiative. This includes Huawei - they are enabling mass surveillance across most of the countries they are selling to. If you have watched the video - check Food Rangers videos you will not see this level of surveillance then at street levels etc.

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## 055_destroyer

denel said:


> I have been saying all along the situation is very very dire for moslems in Xinjiang. This is a good inside view. You can see mosques are locked up even in ramadhan. Where are all the uighur people in kasghar or Hotan - all disappeared for re-education.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese party PLA trolls - piss off and will not be responding as you are all on ignore list.
> 
> This is not only here but is now spreading to Xian as well. Please pass along the video.
> 
> My prayers are for and with the moslems of Xinjiang and hope that this trial will pass. The prayers for the Lord of Abraham will continue to echo across Xinjiang.
> Amen.


@Dubious, please hold your promise and clear this name calling and thread that mean to provoke.


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## Dubious

055_destroyer said:


> @Dubious, please hold your promise and clear this name calling and thread that mean to provoke.


 btw I didnt promise anything only assured you we are balanced.
Please refer to other mods I am on a bit of a break to go through all:

@Arsalan @Irfan Baloch @Oscar

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## 055_destroyer

denel said:


> sure. duly noted, i will correct to use right way.
> 
> 
> You go to the point of putting entire population into mental camps where beatings, not to mention abortion are being forced on women. You are truely a pathetic people at the end of the day.
> You are trying to rob people of their identify; guess what Soviets tried and failed. Too bad, voice of our lord will prevail against your atheist god of Mao.
> 
> 
> Correct and they have bought entire countries in debt to them who cannot say anything to protest - may it be Pak, most african countries including asians.
> You just have to pull Food ranger's video blogs from 2-3 years ago into Xinjiang and compare. A huge contrasts - mosques were full and entire cities villages markets bustling. now it is ghosts that are around.
> My friend who travels every year there for the first time said, situation is very dire for muslims in China.
> 
> 
> Correct; CPEC or the Silk Road is nothing more than a conduit for the Chinese strategy to take over by putting nations into severe debt to China they will say nothing and provide a means to their ends.
> China is the biggest threat to all developing nations. We see it here how they deliberately decimated our industries by dumping and taking our jobs away. On this one, I am with Trump; hit them hard ... so hard that it becomes a lesson for others to take the initiative. This includes Huawei - they are enabling mass surveillance across most of the countries they are selling to. If you have watched the video - check Food Rangers videos you will not see this level of surveillance then at street levels etc.



A Christian acting as hero for muslim? Isnt the same crusader that led an army marching into the city of Jerusalem? I can see the hypocrisy of your side.

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## denel

055_destroyer said:


> @Dubious, please hold your promise and clear this name calling and thread that mean to provoke.


NO!. This is exactly what you chinese what to be shut down and dont want people to know. 

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2...-playing-a-role-in-internment-of-muslims.html

We need this forum to highlight the plight of Uighur and specifically the Hu Angang as the architecture of this genocide.


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## 055_destroyer

Dubious said:


> btw I didnt promise anything only assured you we are balanced.
> Please refer to other mods I am on a bit of a break to go through all:
> 
> @Arsalan @Irfan Baloch @Oscar


Ok, I can start calling others as troll and hope I don't get my comment get delete for double standard by you. You are who claim any offensive post or name calling will not be tolerate. Now you backtrack your words.

@Arsalan @Oscar @Irfan Baloch

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## denel

055_destroyer said:


> A Christian acting as hero for muslim? Isnt the same crusader that led an army marching into the city of Jerusalem? I can see the hypocrisy of your side.


Chinese PLA troll. On Ignore List. 

No further replies to you.

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## Dubious

055_destroyer said:


> Ok, I can start calling others as troll and hope I don't get my comment get delete for double standard by you.


1) you do that at your own risk..
You break a forum rule you will pay for it..No one else so please stop derailing
2) if you can't counter a point peacefully and respectfully then exit the thread instead of admitting to invite trolls to destroy it coz you can't answer respectfully.
3) if you feel some mod is biased kindly use the GHQ
4) mods are human and we are allowed to take our time to review the issue you can not and should not ever pressurise one @Irfan Baloch this is what I was talking about long back.
4) we mods are not paid even a penny so we are entitled to take our time..If you can't wait and resort to trolling only you pay for it. ..

They want action pronto as though they are paying us for a service!

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## 055_destroyer

denel said:


> Chinese PLA troll. On Ignore List.
> 
> No further replies to you.


Yes, A Big troll of you. All fake link and video. As I say, Christian Crusader trying to act hero for Muslim? Maybe Muslim are too quick to forget your crusader and slaughter of Muslim few hundred years ago in the name of God.

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## denel

Dubious said:


> btw I didnt promise anything only assured you we are balanced.
> Please refer to other mods I am on a bit of a break to go through all:
> 
> @Arsalan @Irfan Baloch @Oscar


Thank you. As you will note these are serious times in Xinjiang for the muslims. Their plight is being quashed by the Chinese trolls on this forum who are deliberately pushing this to be disappeared.


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## 055_destroyer

Dubious said:


> 1) you do that at your own risk..
> You break a forum rule you will pay for it..No one else so please stop derailing
> 2) if you can't counter a point peacefully and respectfully then exit the thread instead of admitting to invite trolls to destroy it coz you can't answer respectfully.
> 3) if you feel some mod is biased kindly use the GHQ
> 4) mods are human and we are allowed to take our time to review the issue you can not and should not ever pressurise one @Irfan Baloch this is what I was talking about long back.
> 4) we mods are not paid even a penny so we are entitled to take our time..If you can't wait and resort to trolling only you pay for ithe. ..
> 
> They want action pronto as though they are paying us for a service!


You are the one ignore others breaking rules for posting offensive comment. Name trolling by other against China is tolerant which I ask you to act on but you failed to act on. If others can call name calling of troll be tolerant by you, why I can't? Special rules for me, is it?

@Arsalan @Irfan Baloch

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## Dubious

055_destroyer said:


> Ok, I can start calling others as troll


Under which forum.rule did you get that as acceptable?


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## Englishman

The Chinese methodology is quite effective if you think about it. Many in the west are probably looking closely in case they they decide to implement it themselves. What happened to the Jews can quite easily happen to the Muslims.

You can call it Nazi-Lite...

Rather than Gas chambers they use well structured brainwashing programmes. Unfortunately many Pakistanis are too simple minded and misinformed to realise what is going on.

Rather than thanking you for your genuine concerns they choose to pick up on how you spell the word Muslim. 

Cheap mentality for cheap people.

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## Dubious

055_destroyer said:


> You are the one ignore others breaking rules for posting offensive comment. Name trolling by other against China is tolerant which I ask you to act on but you failed to act on. If others can call name calling of troll be tolerant by you, why I can't? Special rules for me, is it?


1) you can't order me. What do you think you are?
2) read the forum rules. There are no special rules esp not for you. Don't elevate yourself 
3) if you break any forum rule you pay for it. 

At this point you literally are looking for an excuse to troll....because no one in their right mind behaves as you just did



055_destroyer said:


> cant you read thread starter first post of this thread. See for yourself. Read thru again before you ask me again.


I am on a break can you not read my post?

I mentioned the other mods if you still can't behave that is your problem. No one else's...If you break a rule that Is your problem, your doing, your actions. Stop trying to pass the blame

@The Eagle


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## 055_destroyer

Dubious said:


> 1) you can't order me. What do you think you are?
> 2) read the forum rules. There are no special rules esp not for you. Don't elevate yourself
> 3) if you break any forum rule you pay for it.
> 
> At this point you literally are looking for an excuse to troll....because no one in their right mind behaves as you just did
> 
> 
> I am on a break can you not read my post?


Why bother respond if you can reply my post? Troll calling by OP is allow which I ask you to act on but failed. Don't act righteous when you can't delivered. And don't be a moderator if you are double standard.

@Arsalan @Irfan Baloch

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## Dubious

I am not going to close this thread because you said so...that is not how it works read the forum rules and if you can't counter get off the thread...
Why can't you get off the thread? Are you paid to counter or whine till it closes?

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## Dubious

055_destroyer said:


> Why bother respond if you can reply my post? Troll calling by OP is allow which I ask you to act on but failed. Don't act righteous when you can't delivered. And don't be a moderator if you are double standard.
> 
> @Arsalan @Irfan Baloch


This member needs to be put in his place. He refuses to read forum rules. Wants to teach others what to do. I already called other mods but he has no patience to showcase himself and is seeking legitimacy to troll and attack other members.



055_destroyer said:


> cant you read thread starter first post of this thread. See for yourself. Read thru again before you ask me again.


Show me the forum rule which states that you are allowed to threaten to troll if no action is awarded?
Also show me the forum rule which dictates you get to behave as you are doing

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## denel

Englishman said:


> The Chinese methodology is quite effective if you think about it. Many in the west are probably looking closely in case they they decide to implement it themselves. What happened to the Jews can quite easily happen to the Muslims.
> 
> You can call it Nazi-Lite...
> 
> Rather than Gas chambers they use well structured brainwashing programmes. Unfortunately many Pakistanis are too simple minded and misinformed to realise what is going on.
> 
> Rather than thanking you for your genuine concerns they choose to pick up on how you spell the word Muslim.
> 
> Cheap mentality for cheap people.


Thank you. My family is in debt to Muslims; they are the ones who saved us from complete annihalations and alllowed us to survive our great trek in 1920s. To this gratitude, you will note I am part of the muslim community in my region - what more honour could you have bestowed on you when they asked my uncle to architect 2 mosques!.

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## The Eagle

055_destroyer said:


> Ok, I can start calling others as troll and hope I don't get my comment get delete for double standard by you. You are who claim any offensive post or name calling will not be tolerate. Now you backtrack your words.
> 
> @Arsalan @Oscar @Irfan Baloch



Report the matter and move on without quoting back or doing so in kind. Be it the instigator or the one who responds, will be dealt on similar fashion accordingly. Mos(s) will look into the matter and members have no free hand to take matter into their own hands until & unless resolved. Instead of being in rush, let's ignore the matter for a while by not getting involved, report it and move on.



denel said:


> I have been saying all along the situation is very very dire for moslems in Xinjiang. This is a good inside view. You can see mosques are locked up even in ramadhan. Where are all the uighur people in kasghar or Hotan - all disappeared for re-education.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Mod edit: Inappropriate posting/words/provocation. _
> 
> This is not only here but is now spreading to Xian as well. Please pass along the video.
> 
> My prayers are for and with the moslems of Xinjiang and hope that this trial will pass. The prayers for the Lord of Abraham will continue to echo across Xinjiang.
> Amen.



The post is edited having provocative and inappropriate remarks directed at certain members of this Forum. Please, keep it friendly for the sake of productive & analytical discussion. 

Regards,

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## Irfan Baloch

055_destroyer said:


> Yes, A Big troll of you. All fake link and video. As I say, Christian Crusader trying to act hero for Muslim? Maybe Muslim are too quick to forget your crusader and slaughter of Muslim few hundred years ago in the name of God.


Cool it

And relax

Its an open forum outside the confines of Chinese Communist party censorship 

First thing about the thread itself

I see with great suspicion when west voices concerns for certain communities in east but remains quiet for others

Faith or race is irrelevant normally but it is adapted in a rarrative when the purpose is to build a political case

China oppressed its people people are persecuted if They are deemed danger to party line
Muslim or non muslim doesn't matter

West is also baiting and wishing a tiananmen square like chaos in hong kong riots both places are not Muslim related

Chia is a rival and facing an open economic and propoganda war and covert subversion 
So West will highlight the victims but will stay silent on India. Saudi arabia and israel re kashmir yemen and palestine 



But this doesn't make such reports as fake
There maybe exaggeration and a certain spin (like tony blair shedding tears on sadam using chemicals on "shia" iraqis.. he couldve just said iraqi civilians but no)

Therefore I will be concerned for plight of persecuted communities but i will watch out what another country wants to achieve from highlighting it

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## Ahmet Pasha

Man these chinese CPC/PLA government paid trolls are sooooo annoying and dont even type proper english


denel said:


> Chinese PLA troll. On Ignore List.
> 
> No further replies to you.

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## Irfan Baloch

nick_indian said:


> Wish India could do the same in Kashmir Valley. Wish we had the balls. Send them all to re-education camps. We are too humanitarian I guess.


I know this post doesnt show your real character
Despite our differences i am sure you are a decent human being and belong to a loving family

Indian forces have not been any less brutal 
There are mass graves torture and rape
Mass punishments of the Kashmiri civilians i have seen tortured bodies dumped into river jehlam by indian troops and they knew we will see them and kashmiris on our sides will see them 
Terror tactics are way too many to write


And then there is the issue of 
WHAT ABOUT 

and for that i dont have answer but i wont deflect a question

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## Armchair

China is showing its character, and it is not a pretty sight. I do not think any country can trust a nation like this. Nor can we allow such an evil country to spread its influence.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Bro I don't understand why Pakistanis/PDF are not atleast allowing a small possibility that this might just be true?? China is Iron brother so it is all Maerican propoganda??

PDF also seems to have heavy handed and dismissive attitude when it comes to XinJiang muslims??


The Eagle said:


> Report the matter and move on without quoting back or doing so in kind. Be it the instigator or the one who responds, will be dealt on similar fashion accordingly. Mos(s) will look into the matter and members have no free hand to take matter into their own hands until & unless resolved. Instead of being in rush, let's ignore the matter for a while by not getting involved, report it and move on.
> 
> 
> 
> The post is edited having provocative and inappropriate remarks directed at certain members of this Forum. Please, keep it friendly for the sake of productive & analytical discussion.
> 
> Regards,

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## The Eagle

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Bro I don't understand why Pakistanis/PDF are not atleast allowing a small possibility that this might just be true?? China is Iron brother so it is all Maerican propoganda??
> 
> PDF also seems to have heavy handed and dismissive attitude when it comes to XinJiang muslims??



Had it been the case as you said; you wouldn't be seeing thread still active. None opposed to discuss. The matter was all about abiding by the rules of forums. The subject is still available to discuss.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Irfan Baloch said:


> I know this post doesnt show your real character
> Despite our differences i am sure you are a decent human being and belong to a loving family



I just lament that so many Kashmiris and some others like to portray Indians as evil despite how much we try to ensure their happiness and not cross our limits in trying to kill the insurgency there. But, compare us to the Chinese and the Russians, we literally treat Kashmiris like little princesses despite the fact that there is so much violence in Kashmir while Xinjiang Muslims are peaceful.


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## Irfan Baloch

The Eagle said:


> Had it been the case as you said; you wouldn't be seeing thread still active. None opposed to discuss. The matter was all about abiding by the rules of forums. The subject is still available to discuss.


He suffers from comprehension issues and troll chia syndrome



nick_indian said:


> I just lament that so many Kashmiris and some others like to portray Indians as evil despite how much we try to ensure their happiness and not cross our limits in trying to kill the insurgency there. But, compare us to the Chinese and the Russians, we literally treat Kashmiris like little princesses despite the fact that there is so much violence in Kashmir while Xinjiang Muslims are peaceful.


Na laly na

I wish and pray you are right
But there are also gruesome stories that destroy work and good will built by indian state

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## The Eagle

Irfan Baloch said:


> He suffers from comprehension issues and troll chia syndrome



We have 5 relevant topics being shown at the end of this page alone in regard to topic in hand but, am really surprised by the understanding of few on the matter. These are same views & incorrect concerns shown by the likes of Gul Bukhari etc on social media. Surprised.


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## Gandhi G in da house

Irfan Baloch said:


> I know this post doesnt show your real character
> Despite our differences i am sure you are a decent human being and belong to a loving family
> 
> Indian forces have not been any less brutal
> There are mass graves torture and rape
> Mass punishments of the Kashmiri civilians i have seen tortured bodies dumped into river jehlam by indian troops and they knew we will see them and kashmiris on our sides will see them
> Terror tactics are way too many to write
> 
> 
> And then there is the issue of
> WHAT ABOUT
> 
> and for that i dont have answer but i wont deflect a question




Those tortured must have been terrorists or terrorists supporters who must have been aiding or abetting the terrorists in some ways. Not denying that some times innocents also suffer. Atrocities have happened, can't deny that. 

But compare this with China, are we stopping the Kashmiris from practicing their religion ? Are we sending them to re-education camps where god knows what happens, are we filing the place with non-Kashmiris ? No. Compare with Russia, where the Russians got their tanks rolling all over Grozny in Chechnya. We have done nothing compared to all that. May be that is why we are suffering in Kashmir.


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## zulu

Perfect approach let them present all sides of story but back up with facts not just for trolling.As PDF is and should be information and ideas sharing site not an propaganda tool and we are not blind in China love as many indians claims here.Burnt by that approach before with USA 


The Eagle said:


> Had it been the case as you said; you wouldn't be seeing thread still active. None opposed to discuss. The matter was all about abiding by the rules of forums. The subject is still available to discuss.

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## denel

nick_indian said:


> Those tortured must have been terrorists or terrorists supporters who must have been aiding or abetting the terrorists in some ways. Not denying that some times innocents also suffer. Atrocities have happened, can't deny that.
> 
> But compare this with China, are we stopping the Kashmiris from practicing their religion ? Are we sending them to re-education camps where god knows what happens, are we filing the place with non-Kashmiris ? No. Compare with Russia, where the Russians got their tanks rolling all over Grozny in Chechnya. We have done nothing compared to all that. May be that is why we are suffering in Kashmir.


Not correct. Attrocities by indian forces are well documented including delibrate rape similar to those carried out by the Serbs against Muslims there. Regretfully, had India understood the notion of respect and valuing people yet you adopted the tactics of brutality which are guaranteed to have opposing reaction - elementary physics. Your BJP is ultra-nationalist which is totting a quasi neo nazi type of agenda that is no different than what we have witnessed here not that long ago during Aparthied; yes - before you get to it - i lost my cousin and his wife and 2 kids who were shot and dynamited for supporting people who were fleeing from RSA - irrespective of race, religion or gender. Yet for this offence, they were targetted and made an example of. When we went to their farm house - there was nothing but nothing left to identify them with.
Pal, before you condone such violence against those who seek self determination, you need to read the very articles of Gandhi and his values which have been conviniently forgotten and relegated by your government who were directly complicit in Gandhi's assissination - is there anything left to say thereafter.
Back to China, if you are trying to use those tactics as an example - shame on you and your entire nation. I will be the first to be protesting outside the Indian consulate here in Pretoria and trust me I will mobilise entire muslim community across RSA to march on your consulate. Then again, how will you silence over 100mil of your muslim community - do you think for 1 second the challenge if they all arose and crippled your governemtn thru civil disorder. Already you have marginalised citizens due to incomprehensive caste system which is an aborance on humanity; lets say for 1 min, if all decided enough of these wretched upper caste Hindus; then what. 
Anyway I have said enough you need to think 2x before writing such garbage supporting these genocidal tendencies. Kashmiris are not the peaceful natured Uighurs that will standby and take attrocities they will hit back.



Ahmet Pasha said:


> Man these chinese CPC/PLA government paid trolls are sooooo annoying and dont even type proper english


They are; there is an entire group within PLA pyscops that is devoted to squashing any such reports and are monitoring their own citizens. Unfortunately under their new emperor Xi - this is taking the form beyond what happened under the gang of four. Look at Zhao Ziyang - because he supported the students in Tiannenmien - he has been completely sanitised from history book and ask these trolls they will not respond to it. Fortunately, I was fortunate to have met Zhao when he toured East Africa and a gentleman of reflection and thought unlike these bot creating communist cadres who see nothing except East is Red and subjugating entire races.


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## Gandhi G in da house

denel said:


> Not correct. Attrocities by indian forces are well documented including delibrate rape similar to those carried out by the Serbs against Muslims there. Regretfully, had India understood the notion of respect and valuing people yet you adopted the tactics of brutality which are guaranteed to have opposing reaction - elementary physics. Your BJP is ultra-nationalist which is totting a quasi neo nazi type of agenda that is no different than what we have witnessed here not that long ago during Aparthied; yes - before you get to it - i lost my cousin and his wife and 2 kids who were shot and dynamited for supporting people who were fleeing from RSA - irrespective of race, religion or gender. Yet for this offence, they were targetted and made an example of. When we went to their farm house - there was nothing but nothing left to identify them with.
> Pal, before you condone such violence against those who seek self determination, you need to read the very articles of Gandhi and his values which have been conviniently forgotten and relegated by your government who were directly complicit in Gandhi's assissination - is there anything left to say thereafter.
> Back to China, if you are trying to use those tactics as an example - shame on you and your entire nation. I will be the first to be protesting outside the Indian consulate here in Pretoria and trust me I will mobilise entire muslim community across RSA to march on your consulate. Then again, how will you silence over 100mil of your muslim community - do you think for 1 second the challenge if they all arose and crippled your governemtn thru civil disorder. Already you have marginalised citizens due to incomprehensive caste system which is an aborance on humanity; lets say for 1 min, if all decided enough of these wretched upper caste Hindus; then what.
> Anyway I have said enough you need to think 2x before writing such garbage supporting these genocidal tendencies. Kashmiris are not the peaceful natured Uighurs that will standby and take attrocities they will hit back.
> 
> .



I suppose once you Muslims learn to treat other Muslims of other sects better, what to say of minorities, then people might take your futile lengthy angry posts seriously. Reality of Kashmir is that it is a separatist movement which started with a massacre and exodus of its minority Hindu community and this is the reason why in most of the Non-Muslim world and even in parts of the Muslims no one cares about this so-called freedom movement.


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## denel

nick_indian said:


> I suppose once you Muslims learn to treat other Muslims of other sects better, what to say of minorities, then people might take your futile lengthy angry posts seriously. Reality of Kashmir is that it is a separatist movement which started with a massacre and exodus of its minority Hindu community and this is the reason why in most of the Non-Muslim world and even in parts of the Muslims no one cares about this so-called freedom movement.


Pal, I am NOT muslim. They dont care because they are afraid. Your BJP hindu gangs have instilled fear on any protests; needless to say what your gangs are doing to poor butchers even those who were innocent.

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## Gandhi G in da house

denel said:


> Pal, I am NOT muslim.



Doesn't matter.


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## Ahmet Pasha

Maybe West/America has it's own interests in the mattet. But Pakistan/Pakistanis should not simply overlook this horrific ethnic cleansing. Especially when evidence of it is emerging through under cover journalists. Also Vice is not the only one that has dug up signs that point towards China trying to ethnically cleanse Uighur muslims.

As regards to golalai ismail and co they are plain fraudsters. And their claims cannot be substantiated. As similar journalists finding similar evidence is highly doubtfull.

I think China borrowed this idea from Pakistan Army's vocation schools that we were running to bring former TTP members who were brainwashed/tricked into becoming militants back to normalcy. The Chinese just took that idea and amplified it to ethnic cleansing levels. 

It's just a possibility and I could be wrong. 
And it doesn't mean PA is accountable for Chinese CPC's actions.

I guess CPC borrowed this idea of paid internet rolls from Israel and how it has an entire infrastructure and dedicated software programs that target voices of dissent against Israeli oppression of Palestinians. I remember watching an AlJazeera documentary not too long ago that talked about how American-Israelis/Jews and their lobbies employed surveillance softwares that hushed up the BDS campaign, they would also dig up dirt on anyone who supports BDS/Palestinains and even ruin their careers if need be. They were getting their funds from big shot American Israeli billionaires like Soros foundation, AIPAC etc etc.

Suspiciously now that documentary is nowhere to be found on youtube or google. So I guess they're doing their job pretty well.


denel said:


> Not correct. Attrocities by indian forces are well documented including delibrate rape similar to those carried out by the Serbs against Muslims there. Regretfully, had India understood the notion of respect and valuing people yet you adopted the tactics of brutality which are guaranteed to have opposing reaction - elementary physics. Your BJP is ultra-nationalist which is totting a quasi neo nazi type of agenda that is no different than what we have witnessed here not that long ago during Aparthied; yes - before you get to it - i lost my cousin and his wife and 2 kids who were shot and dynamited for supporting people who were fleeing from RSA - irrespective of race, religion or gender. Yet for this offence, they were targetted and made an example of. When we went to their farm house - there was nothing but nothing left to identify them with.
> Pal, before you condone such violence against those who seek self determination, you need to read the very articles of Gandhi and his values which have been conviniently forgotten and relegated by your government who were directly complicit in Gandhi's assissination - is there anything left to say thereafter.
> Back to China, if you are trying to use those tactics as an example - shame on you and your entire nation. I will be the first to be protesting outside the Indian consulate here in Pretoria and trust me I will mobilise entire muslim community across RSA to march on your consulate. Then again, how will you silence over 100mil of your muslim community - do you think for 1 second the challenge if they all arose and crippled your governemtn thru civil disorder. Already you have marginalised citizens due to incomprehensive caste system which is an aborance on humanity; lets say for 1 min, if all decided enough of these wretched upper caste Hindus; then what.
> Anyway I have said enough you need to think 2x before writing such garbage supporting these genocidal tendencies. Kashmiris are not the peaceful natured Uighurs that will standby and take attrocities they will hit back.
> 
> 
> They are; there is an entire group within PLA pyscops that is devoted to squashing any such reports and are monitoring their own citizens. Unfortunately under their new emperor Xi - this is taking the form beyond what happened under the gang of four. Look at Zhao Ziyang - because he supported the students in Tiannenmien - he has been completely sanitised from history book and ask these trolls they will not respond to it. Fortunately, I was fortunate to have met Zhao when he toured East Africa and a gentleman of reflection and thought unlike these bot creating communist cadres who see nothing except East is Red and subjugating entire races.

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## ZeEa5KPul

@denel LMAO are you one of those traitors on an NGO payroll that would sell out your country for a fistful of dollars? Why don't you try getting a real job instead.

@The Eagle there's supposed to be a pinned thread here for all Uighur-related issues. Would you please move this "discussion" there.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

denel said:


> I have been saying all along the situation is very very dire for moslems in Xinjiang. This is a good inside view. You can see mosques are locked up even in ramadhan. Where are all the uighur people in kasghar or Hotan - all disappeared for re-education.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Mod edit: Inappropriate posting/words/provocation. _
> 
> This is not only here but is now spreading to Xian as well. Please pass along the video.
> 
> My prayers are for and with the moslems of Xinjiang and hope that this trial will pass. The prayers for the Lord of Abraham will continue to echo across Xinjiang.
> Amen.









Funny how an american channel is making a video about Muslims ALLEGEDLY suffering in China when the american have murdered millions of Muslims since 1990. Anything between 5-10 million in fact.......the irony!!!!!!!!!!..................................................anyone else think that the channel might be slightly biased????????..........



055_destroyer said:


> You are the one ignore others breaking rules for posting offensive comment. Name trolling by other against China is tolerant which I ask you to act on but you failed to act on. If others can call name calling of troll be tolerant by you, why I can't? Special rules for me, is it?
> 
> @Arsalan @Irfan Baloch







Brother, us Pakistanis love China. Ignore him, he is a troll. This is ALL propaganda against China. Enemies want to draw a wedge between Chinese and Pakistani brothers and sisters.......



Ahmet Pasha said:


> Iron brother syndrome in Pakistan will also wear off. Just you wait. Only a matter of 4-5 years before Pakistan ends up another Cambodia or Sri Lanka.
> 
> 
> Ive said it before right here on PDF
> And I'll say it again.
> India, China, Syria and Burma are petri dish experiments carried out by Dajjalic forces. It's only beginning of hard times for global muslim population.







Sure sure. You fail to mention the slaughter of between 5-10 million Muslims by the americans since 1990. I suppose that's okay compared to going to a deradicalisation program............



Armchair said:


> May Allah help us see the ultimate evil and oppression the Chinese hide in their hearts. In the long-term, China could betray Pakistan "iron brothers" or not. Deep down, they hate our religion.
> 
> It is sad that no Muslim country is speaking up against them.
> 
> I hope the US can help in some way, perhaps help with arming resistance fighters there and elsewhere. China is becoming a very ugly monster, it can be baited into making an egotistic mistake perhaps in Taiwan. If the US comes up with a good plan, it is possible to bring down China.
> 
> in'sha'Allah.








SURE SURE.................................The same americans who have genocided between 5-10 million Muslims globally since 1990??????????..................WTF!!!!!...........................I suppose that's not as bad as being DERADICALIZED...............


You have just proven the fact religious extremists are mentally retarded misfits with a low IQ devoid of reality..........



Ahmet Pasha said:


> Bro I don't understand why Pakistanis/PDF are not atleast allowing a small possibility that this might just be true?? China is Iron brother so it is all Maerican propoganda??
> 
> PDF also seems to have heavy handed and dismissive attitude when it comes to XinJiang muslims??





TBH We don't give a damn. Not our problem or business. We need the Chinese and that's all there is to it. What China does internally is not a matter that concerns us. If the americans can genocide between 5-10 million Muslims globally since 1990 and get away with it scott free, then the Chines deradicalizing a few zealots is a a complete NON-ISSUE.

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## ChineseTiger1986

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> TBH We don't give a damn. Not our problem or business. We need the Chinese and that's all there is to it. What it does internally is not a matter that concerns us. If the americans can genocide between 5-10 million Muslims globally since 1990 and get away with it scott free, then *the Chines e deradicalizing a few zealots is a a complete NON-ISSUE.*



True, China is making great effort to help the Uighurs to recover their traditional custom.

Uighurs remain as Muslims, but why they couldn't dress like that instead of full veiled Burqa?

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> True, China is making great effort to help the Uighurs to recover their traditional custom.
> 
> Uighurs remain as Muslims, but why they couldn't dress like that instead of full veiled Burqa?






Brother, please ignore the trolls. Pakistan loves the Chinese people and nation. You have done so much for Pakistan and stood by us in our greatest hour of need. That will NEVER be forgotten. We are brothers and sisters FOREVER & EVER

Pakistan & China ZINDABAD!!!!!

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## ChineseTiger1986

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Brother, please ignore the trolls. Pakistan loves the Chinese people and nation. You have done so much for Pakistan and stood by us in our greatest hour of need. That will NEVER be forgotten. We are brothers and sisters FOREVER & EVER
> 
> Pakistan & China ZINDABAD!!!!!



Absolutely, China just doesn't want the Uighur women to wear the fully veiled Burqa, because this could make them and their family members vulnerable to succumb to the extremist ideology.

Most Muslim nations in the world support China's policy on this issue, because they know who is really the mastermind behind those extremists.

China always trusts the rightful decision made by its Iron Brother and other Muslim nations around the world.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Absolutely, China just doesn't want the Uighur women to wear the fully veiled Burqa, because this could make them and their family members vulnerable to succumb to the extremist ideology.
> 
> Most Muslim nations in the world support China's policy on this issue, because they know who is really the mastermind behind those extremists.
> 
> China always trusts the rightful decision made by its Iron Brother and other Muslim nations around the world.






Please ignore the trolls who are trying to draw a wedge between Chinese and Pakistani brothers and sisters. They are mentally retarded, low IQ misfits who are knowingly or unknowingly carrying out the agenda of our enemies. They are the biggest enemy to Pakistan, China and Islam.

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## ChineseTiger1986

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Please ignore the trolls who are trying to draw a wedge between Chinese and Pakistani brothers and sisters. They are mentally retarded, low IQ misfits who are knowingly or unknowingly carrying out the agenda of our enemies. They are the biggest enemy to Pakistan, China and Islam.



Yep, actions spoke louder than words.

What China had contributed to the Muslim nations over decades has been self-explanatory to all normal people without a specific agenda.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, actions spoke louder than words.
> 
> What China had contributed to the Muslim nations over decades has been self-explanatory to all normal people without a specific agenda.





EXACTLY!

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## denel

ZeEa5KPul said:


> @denel LMAO are you one of those traitors on an NGO payroll that would sell out your country for a fistful of dollars? Why don't you try getting a real job instead.
> 
> @The Eagle there's supposed to be a pinned thread here for all Uighur-related issues. Would you please move this "discussion" there.


I have a self sustaining job, thank you very much; if interested in farming - please come and help instead of trolling. If MSF is an NGO in your eyes, then I am very proud to have served with them in various capacities in time off from my service with SADF/SANDF in Darfur and Yemen. What I saw was beyond comprehension. Why dont you come and help; it will make a man out of you and show what devil walks amongst humans.



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Funny how an american channel is making a video about Muslims ALLEGEDLY suffering in China when the american have murdered millions of Muslims since 1990. Anything between 5-10 million in fact.......the irony!!!!!!!!!!..................................................anyone else think that the channel might be slightly biased????????..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brother, us Pakistanis love China. Ignore him, he is a troll. This is ALL propaganda against China. Enemies want to draw a wedge between Chinese and Pakistani brothers and sisters.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure sure. You fail to mention the slaughter of between 5-10 million Muslims by the americans since 1990. I suppose that's okay compared to going to a deradicalisation program............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SURE SURE.................................The same americans who have genocided between 5-10 million Muslims globally since 1990??????????..................WTF!!!!!...........................I suppose that's not as bad as being DERADICALIZED...............
> 
> 
> You have just proven the fact religious extremists are mentally retarded misfits with a low IQ devoid of reality..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TBH We don't give a damn. Not our problem or business. We need the Chinese and that's all there is to it. What China does internally is not a matter that concerns us. If the americans can genocide between 5-10 million Muslims globally since 1990 and get away with it scott free, then the Chines deradicalizing a few zealots is a a complete NON-ISSUE.



Americans are guilty and everyone knows it. Chinese are guilty as well, Indians are guilty. Pak was guilty just as KSA is guilty. My own country was guilty. 

Did you even watch the documentary? Do you have people who have been to China you know that are bringing news out? I do. A few zealots - really - how about women, putting children into kindergardens, shutting down and razing down mosques? Last thing I recall similar was what Nazis did to jews but one step further. 

It truly shameful @Armchair that nation of Iqbal has people who are clouded by their god like worship of China they fail to realise what hate they have for muslims.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Us Pakistanis have been infatuated by many a people before usually if wears off very quickly upon seeing their real faces. 

It will take time. But it may be too late by then.

Yes America is guilty silent on India, Israel, Burma etc but that does not justify China.


denel said:


> I have a self sustaining job, thank you very much; if interested in farming - please come and help instead of trolling. If MSF is an NGO in your eyes, then I am very proud to have served with them in various capacities in time off from my service with SADF/SANDF in Darfur and Yemen. What I saw was beyond comprehension. Why dont you come and help; it will make a man out of you and show what devil walks amongst humans.
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are guilty and everyone knows it. Chinese are guilty as well, Indians are guilty. Pak was guilty just as KSA is guilty. My own country was guilty.
> 
> Did you even watch the documentary? Do you have people who have been to China you know that are bringing news out? I do. A few zealots - really - how about women, putting children into kindergardens, shutting down and razing down mosques? Last thing I recall similar was what Nazis did to jews but one step further.
> 
> It truly shameful @Armchair that nation of Iqbal has people who are clouded by their god like worship of China they fail to realise what hate they have for muslims.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

denel said:


> I have a self sustaining job, thank you very much; if interested in farming - please come and help instead of trolling. If MSF is an NGO in your eyes, then I am very proud to have served with them in various capacities in time off from my service with SADF/SANDF in Darfur and Yemen. What I saw was beyond comprehension. Why dont you come and help; it will make a man out of you and show what devil walks amongst humans.
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are guilty and everyone knows it. Chinese are guilty as well, Indians are guilty. Pak was guilty just as KSA is guilty. My own country was guilty.
> 
> Did you even watch the documentary? Do you have people who have been to China you know that are bringing news out? I do. A few zealots - really - how about women, putting children into kindergardens, shutting down and razing down mosques? Last thing I recall similar was what Nazis did to jews but one step further.
> 
> It truly shameful @Armchair that nation of Iqbal has people who are clouded by their god like worship of China they fail to realise what hate they have for muslims.






Okay. So where is the evidence that the Chinese are killing Muslims en-masse like the americans and isis have done?


----------



## baajey

nick_indian said:


> I just lament that so many Kashmiris and some others like to portray Indians as evil despite how much we try to ensure their happiness and not cross our limits in trying to kill the insurgency there. But, compare us to the Chinese and the Russians, we literally treat Kashmiris like little princesses despite the fact that there is so much violence in Kashmir while Xinjiang Muslims are peaceful.


why should we compare our army with some other army, if the object of discussion isn't competency?....although I do agree the other armies mentioned are way more brutal in their ways. we all remember what happened to the German women immediately after soviets took the remaining territory.
and we know of the PLA very well what it did to its general ppl, esp which tried to question the system. falung gong wasn't trying to dissent , still they got frucked.


Irfan Baloch said:


> But there are also gruesome stories that destroy work and good will built by indian state


.
Exactly.
I keep telling ppl that one collateral damage in a family of an innocent, there is a potential for one or multiple extremists coming from that family in future. why would a person not try to avenge his dead father, brother etc etc.
nobody likes an abusive parent. nobody being Kashmir and parent being india.

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## Armchair

denel said:


> I have a self sustaining job, thank you very much; if interested in farming - please come and help instead of trolling. If MSF is an NGO in your eyes, then I am very proud to have served with them in various capacities in time off from my service with SADF/SANDF in Darfur and Yemen. What I saw was beyond comprehension. Why dont you come and help; it will make a man out of you and show what devil walks amongst humans.
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are guilty and everyone knows it. Chinese are guilty as well, Indians are guilty. Pak was guilty just as KSA is guilty. My own country was guilty.
> 
> Did you even watch the documentary? Do you have people who have been to China you know that are bringing news out? I do. A few zealots - really - how about women, putting children into kindergardens, shutting down and razing down mosques? Last thing I recall similar was what Nazis did to jews but one step further.
> 
> It truly shameful @Armchair that nation of Iqbal has people who are clouded by their god like worship of China they fail to realise what hate they have for muslims.



Yes, it truly is shameful. We have to build ourselves up to a people who live their lives on values, rather than on power politics. I believe someday we will re-emerge as a nation that does. As Iqbal believed.


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## Realtalk108

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1156637280741797889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1156370398084325376

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## vi-va

denel said:


> sure. duly noted, i will correct to use right way.
> 
> 
> You go to the point of putting entire population into mental camps where beatings, not to mention abortion are being forced on women. You are truely a pathetic people at the end of the day.
> You are trying to rob people of their identify; guess what Soviets tried and failed. Too bad, voice of our lord will prevail against your atheist god of Mao.
> 
> 
> Correct and they have bought entire countries in debt to them who cannot say anything to protest - may it be Pak, most african countries including asians.
> You just have to pull Food ranger's video blogs from 2-3 years ago into Xinjiang and compare. A huge contrasts - mosques were full and entire cities villages markets bustling. now it is ghosts that are around.
> My friend who travels every year there for the first time said, situation is very dire for muslims in China.
> 
> 
> Correct; CPEC or the Silk Road is nothing more than a conduit for the Chinese strategy to take over by putting nations into severe debt to China they will say nothing and provide a means to their ends.
> China is the biggest threat to all developing nations. We see it here how they deliberately decimated our industries by dumping and taking our jobs away. On this one, I am with Trump; hit them hard ... so hard that it becomes a lesson for others to take the initiative. This includes Huawei - they are enabling mass surveillance across most of the countries they are selling to. If you have watched the video - check Food Rangers videos you will not see this level of surveillance then at street levels etc.


How much usually paid per month for demonizing China? Can somebody give me a referal if paid well?

US master is the enemy for most countries, isn't it? How many Muslims killed by your employer? 5 million? 10 millions? can somebody give a number?

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## denel

viva_zhao said:


> How much usually paid per month for demonizing China? Can somebody give me a referal if paid well?
> 
> US master is the enemy for most countries, isn't it? How many Muslims killed by your employer? 5 million? 10 millions? can somebody give a number?


I dont respond to chinese PLA trolls. Another add to ignore list of trolls



Armchair said:


> Yes, it truly is shameful. We have to build ourselves up to a people who live their lives on values, rather than on power politics. I believe someday we will re-emerge as a nation that does. As Iqbal believed.


Absolutely, the latest coming out of Xinjiang is zero tolerance to use of Arabic script including halal. No prayers to call, no reading of the koran; no ramadhan is allowed; kids will be most likely forced to eat pork as they have been seperated from their parents, if you are suspected of reading the koran, that means imprisonment until you break and forced brainwashing to the communist robots they are trying to create. In essence they want to break all the 5 pillars of faith to their own version.

Think it this way, by forcing Arabic as a alien language sy; then having a koran which mandates it being read in arabic is now a criminal activity. 

It shows how insecure the Communist party is - they want to break the muslims completely to be seperate from normal islam and they want to control the narrative to their liking.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/sign-times-chinas-capital-orders-055556733.html

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## Galactic Penguin SST

CHN Bamboo said:


> You must have been hurt by Muslims.
> 
> Have Muslim ever forced you to buy their Qie Gao(切糕) at a high price?
> 
> 不要说这些会让穆斯林发怒的话。没人希望自己的信仰被怀疑或者剥夺。



This 切糕 (Qiegao) conspiracy is at the core of all current developments in Xinjiang. Note that it used to be called 新疆骗子 in the past.

By searching the words "新疆切糕骗子"(Xinjiang Qiegao scammers) with google or youtube, once again, we see that the West's disinformation machine is enforcing a totalitarian blackout on this topics, in its ongoing proxy-war waged on China.

Meanwhile, searching in mandarin gives therefore a more better idea, such as baidu search:

*Typical result:*

•新疆切糕是如何骗人的 How does Xinjiang Qiegao deceive people?
https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/423891786692329932.html

•为什么新疆人骗人得不到公正的审判？？？他们卖切糕就是不对。 Why do Xinjiang criminals that deceive people can escape a fair trial? ? ? This scam is not right.
https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/506906932.html?qbl=relate_question_2


*Soft video -without violent gory ending-*
女子买切糕，发现被骗后要走，被卖方拦下无奈服从 The woman bought the Qiegao and found that she was going to be deceived but was stopped by the seller.
https://v.qq.com/x/page/v0367ht31hs.html​And indeed, for more than two decades, this has been allowed. Most often, the cheated customer ended up beaten by gangs of these professional scammers.

But when security personel at the entrance of long distance bus station for instance, seem to enjoy the beating instead of intervening, then one has the proof that it was from day one a well prepared and executed conspiracy.

*Procedure of the conspiracy*

To conduct nation wide, even in smaller towns, this violent scam, in order to antagonize the ethnic Uyghurs from all the other ethnic groups of China.

Conducted by small group of ethnic Uyghur male, up to ten.

Immunity from prosecution is assured by the authority.

*Objective of the conspiracy*

After one generation, it is expected that all Chinese of age 20 and above will have grown a genuine hostile feeling for ALL Uyghurs, and beyond, for all Muslems.

Without any sympathy left from the rest of the some 50 Chinese ethic groups, the isolated Xinjiang ethnic Uyghurs might be rounded up easily in reeducation camps!


*Conclusion*

This only echoes the conspiracy in Europe. For two decades, Muslems were singled-out for praying in the streets, or wearing hijab, or refusing to shake hands, or refusing to go to the swimming pools with there fellow schoolmates, or eating halal -refusing pork- at the canteen, or building minarets.

But, also, once marginalized, the delinquent teenagers would only be punished with a lenient sentence.

*Soft video -without violent gory ending-*
Ultraviolent aggression of an Asian Indochinese (L’agression ultraviolente d’une Asiatique résolue grâce à la vidéosurveillance)
http://www.leparisien.fr/val-de-mar...a-la-videosurveillance-18-07-2019-8119500.php​Today we know that all these "bad seeds", have in fact craftily been engineered en masse to form the backbone of the West's proxy armies as "ISIS" in their proxy-war waged on Libya, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yaman and Iran!

And as these were supposed to die in the Middle East while carrying out the grand strategy of their European puppet masters, therefore the absolute interdiction for them to return to live in the West!


----------



## Armchair

denel said:


> I dont respond to chinese PLA trolls. Another add to ignore list of trolls
> 
> 
> Absolutely, the latest coming out of Xinjiang is zero tolerance to use of Arabic script including halal. No prayers to call, no reading of the koran; no ramadhan is allowed; kids will be most likely forced to eat pork as they have been seperated from their parents, if you are suspected of reading the koran, that means imprisonment until you break and forced brainwashing to the communist robots they are trying to create. In essence they want to break all the 5 pillars of faith to their own version.
> 
> Think it this way, by forcing Arabic as a alien language sy; then having a koran which mandates it being read in arabic is now a criminal activity.
> 
> It shows how insecure the Communist party is - they want to break the muslims completely to be seperate from normal islam and they want to control the narrative to their liking.
> 
> https://ca.yahoo.com/news/sign-times-chinas-capital-orders-055556733.html



China is I think making a strategic mistake with their policies. They have become too cocky too quickly. This may be the turning point that will lead to disaster for them.


----------



## Chanakyaa

*Written by : Sabena Siqddiqui ( from Pakistan )
August 14, 2019*​





Source : https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2019/8/14/muslim-states-and-the-uighur-conundrum

In a joint statement, 22 mostly Western countries recently condemned China's mass detention of members from the Uighur ethnic Muslim minority based in its Xinjiang region.

Addressed to the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet, the letter from mostly Western nations is urging Beijing to end repression in Xinjiang and allow UN experts to visit the region.

Significantly, this is the first collective international move against China's domestic policy.

Michelle Bachelet requested the Chinese authorities for permission to undertake a fact-finding mission in Xinjiang region, and her office stressed that access would be required to key sites, in addition to the 'vocational education centres'.



*This is the first collective international move against China's domestic policy*




Surprisingly, just a few days later, 37 mostly Asian and African countries responded with a letter to the United Nations praising China's human rights record.

"Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalisation measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centres," it read.

According to this document, no terrorist attacks have taken place in the previously troubled region since the last three years due to China's effective measures for counter-terrorism and de-radicalisation.

However, the situation on the ground may be tense, and responsible estimates shared by the Human Rights Watch state that nearly 13 million ethnic Uighurs remain in detention, while over one million are being held in "political education" camps. In addition, there is a general heightened surveillance of Muslims in the entire region.







*There is a general heightened surveillance of Muslims in the entire region*




Unusually, most of the signatories of the second letter defending China's new policy to the UN happened to be Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Qatar, UAE and Syria.

In the past, as Organization of Islamic Co-operation (OIC) members, these countries had demanded justice for Rohingya Muslims in line with the forum's mandate to "safeguard the rights, dignity, and religious and cultural identity" of Muslim minorities.

_*Read more on the Uighur crisis:*
https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/b...slamic-baby-names-in-muslim-majority-xinjiang
- The Uighur Muslim crisis is worse than you think

- 'Cold-hearted' China policy taking Muslim Uighur children from families
- China 'prepares DNA testing' of Muslims in Xinjiang_

_- Chinese authorities ban Muslim children from attending religious events over winter break_

_- China demands all mosques to raise national flag

- China bans Islamic baby names in Muslim-majority Xinjiang_

_- China's Uighur oppression runs deeper than Islamophobia_
Where Xinjiang is concerned, these OIC delegates are satisfied as they had been taken on a tour by Chinese government officials.

However, some other OIC members such as Afghanistan, Albania, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia, Morocco, Tunisia, and Turkey abstained from signing the statement in support of Beijing.

Nevertheless, all Muslim majority countries have ignored the call by the UN Human Rights Council to investigate the situation in Xinjiang.

Having common ethnic links with Turkey, the eight million Uighurs, Kazaks and Kyrgyz population in Xinjiang happens to be the fourth largest concentration of Turkic people globally while Turkey itself has around 53.6 million Turks.

In the past, Uighurs have even demanded sanctuary in Turkey. Out of all the Muslim countries, Turkey had initially taken up the Uighur matter last year.

But after his recent trip to Beijing, Turkish President Erdogan also expressed his satisfaction over the situation in Xinjiang.

Ostensibly, Beijing managed to allay Ankara's concerns and convinced Erdogan that Muslims faced no discrimination as minorities in Communist China.

Keeping in mind the rampant reports in media regarding China's Xinjiang crisis, the matter deserves a more empathetic approach. Like Erdogan had said after meeting with the Chinese President, it may be possible to "find a solution to this issue that takes into consideration the sensitivities on both sides."

Maybe, more Muslim-majority countries would like to help in ending the controversy. But certain factors make them stay at a distance.

For starters, quite a few OIC members are part of China's mega-project, the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) Where business interests are concerned, these Muslim countries have their economic future tied up with China, the second global superpower.




The political and practical cost of probing into the Uighur issue would be too high for any of these countries to withstand.

Secondly, even otherwise, Muslim solidarity on other issues has often come into question. Be it Syria, Yemen or even the ongoing frictions between the US and Iran; the Muslim world has always come up with a scattered response or just divided itself into two separate lobbies.

Thirdly, while China's energy security depends on the GCC countries which are its main suppliers of hydrocarbons, Beijing remains the Arab world's secure long-term consumer base for the next few decades as fluctuating oil prices and the Western demand for alternate energy sources disturbs its economic stability.




_Read also: Welcome to Kashgar! _
_Where you can sip tea and watch _
_Uighurs be persecuted_
Lastly, Xinjiang is China's border province and the success of the BRI depends on this region as it is the main land route to the Arabian Sea via Pakistan.

Any instability here can hinder Beijing's plans for trade connectivity, endanger its investments and disturb all stakeholders.

But ignoring the problem is not the best solution.

According to a research study conducted by Graham Fuller from the Central Asia-Caucasus Institute, " If the "Xinjiang problem is not resolved, it is bound to affect not only broader developments within the People's Republic of China but also the stability of Xinjiang's neighbours in Central and South Asia and, indeed of the broader world order."

But why did the problem begin and how will it end?

According to Fuller's research, over the last two decades, China's Western border province of Xinjiang underwent rapid economic development, enough to boost its per capita income to the 12th among all the 31 provinces.

Ranking third in the equity of income between its rural and urban populations in the whole of China, the region also has ample oil and gas reserves. Not only that, even the literacy and school completion rate is above the national average.

Even tourism increased by 75 percent in 2018.

Apparently, Beijing started expansive development programs worth around $7 billion to further integrate Xinjiang.

Spurring up economic activity, this boosted migration from other provinces, which in turn irked the local Muslim multi-ethnic population.

Consequently, around one decade ago, conflict broke out in Xinjiang after a workplace riot that resulted in the death of two Uighurs.

Riots took place after a police crackdown and ever since then the region has faced security and terrorism issues.

It was in 2017 that the first reports about 'detention centres' surfaced in the news and after these were mentioned in the UN report in 2018, China legalised them as training centres.



*Sabena Siddiqui is a foreign affairs journalist, lawyer and geopolitical analyst specialising in modern China, the Belt and Road Initiative, Middle East and South Asia. 

Also Reported in :

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/11/asia/xinjiang-uyghur-un-letter-intl-hnk/index.html*
https://uhrp.org/news-commentary/wh...e-turning-their-back-chinas-repressed-uighurs

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## coffee_cup

@waz @Oscar @Slav Defence @Irfan Baloch

Another gangu applying diversion tactics and spreading Gangadeshi porpaganda on PDF...

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## Ahmet Pasha

YOU SHOULD BE THE LAST ONE TALKING ABOUT UIGHURS

YOU TWO FACED LYING BITC*HES
@The Eagle @waz shut him down. He's trying to high jack a genuine issue.


XiNiX said:


> Source : https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2019/8/14/muslim-states-and-the-uighur-conundrum
> 
> In a joint statement, 22 mostly Western countries recently condemned China's mass detention of members from the Uighur ethnic Muslim minority based in its Xinjiang region.
> 
> Addressed to the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet, the letter from mostly Western nations is urging Beijing to end repression in Xinjiang and allow UN experts to visit the region.
> 
> Significantly, this is the first collective international move against China's domestic policy.
> 
> Michelle Bachelet requested the Chinese authorities for permission to undertake a fact-finding mission in Xinjiang region, and her office stressed that access would be required to key sites, in addition to the 'vocational education centres'.
> 
> 
> 
> *This is the first collective international move against China's domestic policy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surprisingly, just a few days later, 37 mostly Asian and African countries responded with a letter to the United Nations praising China's human rights record.
> 
> "Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalisation measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centres," it read.
> 
> According to this document, no terrorist attacks have taken place in the previously troubled region since the last three years due to China's effective measures for counter-terrorism and de-radicalisation.
> 
> However, the situation on the ground may be tense, and responsible estimates shared by the Human Rights Watch state that nearly 13 million ethnic Uighurs remain in detention, while over one million are being held in "political education" camps. In addition, there is a general heightened surveillance of Muslims in the entire region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *There is a general heightened surveillance of Muslims in the entire region*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unusually, most of the signatories of the second letter defending China's new policy to the UN happened to be Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Qatar, UAE and Syria.
> 
> In the past, as Organization of Islamic Co-operation (OIC) members, these countries had demanded justice for Rohingya Muslims in line with the forum's mandate to "safeguard the rights, dignity, and religious and cultural identity" of Muslim minorities.
> 
> _*Read more on the Uighur crisis:*
> - The Uighur Muslim crisis is worse than you think
> 
> - 'Cold-hearted' China policy taking Muslim Uighur children from families
> - China 'prepares DNA testing' of Muslims in Xinjiang_
> 
> _- Chinese authorities ban Muslim children from attending religious events over winter break_
> 
> _- China demands all mosques to raise national flag
> 
> - China bans Islamic baby names in Muslim-majority Xinjiang_
> 
> _- China's Uighur oppression runs deeper than Islamophobia_
> Where Xinjiang is concerned, these OIC delegates are satisfied as they had been taken on a tour by Chinese government officials.
> 
> However, some other OIC members such as Afghanistan, Albania, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia, Morocco, Tunisia, and Turkey abstained from signing the statement in support of Beijing.
> 
> Nevertheless, all Muslim majority countries have ignored the call by the UN Human Rights Council to investigate the situation in Xinjiang.
> 
> Having common ethnic links with Turkey, the eight million Uighurs, Kazaks and Kyrgyz population in Xinjiang happens to be the fourth largest concentration of Turkic people globally while Turkey itself has around 53.6 million Turks.
> 
> In the past, Uighurs have even demanded sanctuary in Turkey. Out of all the Muslim countries, Turkey had initially taken up the Uighur matter last year.
> 
> But after his recent trip to Beijing, Turkish President Erdogan also expressed his satisfaction over the situation in Xinjiang.
> 
> Ostensibly, Beijing managed to allay Ankara's concerns and convinced Erdogan that Muslims faced no discrimination as minorities in Communist China.
> 
> Keeping in mind the rampant reports in media regarding China's Xinjiang crisis, the matter deserves a more empathetic approach. Like Erdogan had said after meeting with the Chinese President, it may be possible to "find a solution to this issue that takes into consideration the sensitivities on both sides."
> 
> Maybe, more Muslim-majority countries would like to help in ending the controversy. But certain factors make them stay at a distance.
> 
> For starters, quite a few OIC members are part of China's mega-project, the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) Where business interests are concerned, these Muslim countries have their economic future tied up with China, the second global superpower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The political and practical cost of probing into the Uighur issue would be too high for any of these countries to withstand.
> 
> Secondly, even otherwise, Muslim solidarity on other issues has often come into question. Be it Syria, Yemen or even the ongoing frictions between the US and Iran; the Muslim world has always come up with a scattered response or just divided itself into two separate lobbies.
> 
> Thirdly, while China's energy security depends on the GCC countries which are its main suppliers of hydrocarbons, Beijing remains the Arab world's secure long-term consumer base for the next few decades as fluctuating oil prices and the Western demand for alternate energy sources disturbs its economic stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Read also: Welcome to Kashgar! _
> _Where you can sip tea and watch _
> _Uighurs be persecuted_
> Lastly, Xinjiang is China's border province and the success of the BRI depends on this region as it is the main land route to the Arabian Sea via Pakistan.
> 
> Any instability here can hinder Beijing's plans for trade connectivity, endanger its investments and disturb all stakeholders.
> 
> But ignoring the problem is not the best solution.
> 
> According to a research study conducted by Graham Fuller from the Central Asia-Caucasus Institute, " If the "Xinjiang problem is not resolved, it is bound to affect not only broader developments within the People's Republic of China but also the stability of Xinjiang's neighbours in Central and South Asia and, indeed of the broader world order."
> 
> But why did the problem begin and how will it end?
> 
> According to Fuller's research, over the last two decades, China's Western border province of Xinjiang underwent rapid economic development, enough to boost its per capita income to the 12th among all the 31 provinces.
> 
> Ranking third in the equity of income between its rural and urban populations in the whole of China, the region also has ample oil and gas reserves. Not only that, even the literacy and school completion rate is above the national average.
> 
> Even tourism increased by 75 percent in 2018.
> 
> Apparently, Beijing started expansive development programs worth around $7 billion to further integrate Xinjiang.
> 
> Spurring up economic activity, this boosted migration from other provinces, which in turn irked the local Muslim multi-ethnic population.
> 
> Consequently, around one decade ago, conflict broke out in Xinjiang after a workplace riot that resulted in the death of two Uighurs.
> 
> Riots took place after a police crackdown and ever since then the region has faced security and terrorism issues.
> 
> It was in 2017 that the first reports about 'detention centres' surfaced in the news and after these were mentioned in the UN report in 2018, China legalised them as training centres.
> 
> 
> 
> *Sabena Siddiqui is a foreign affairs journalist, lawyer and geopolitical analyst specialising in modern China, the Belt and Road Initiative, Middle East and South Asia. *

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## Ghost 125

lol its an irony and is funny how the west, which is smashing around muslims all over the globe cares for chinese muslims, and how the filthy dark ugly gangadeshis, who lynch and burn muslims all over gangadesh cares for chinese muslims....you know why??? becoz there is no such thing. Chinese muslims are better off thn indian muslims they are not being killed, molested, raped, burned by ugly indians or being bombed by mighty airforces of west. 
go sell your propaganda elsewhere

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## Death Professor

@waz @The Eagle @Irfan Baloch 

The guy has to been trying to divert the threads and issue on many occasions, how is this allowed?


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## khail007

BS posted by an Indian, trying to hide their own hate of Muslims behind China.
Replace China with India in those articles everything will be cleared like daylight.

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## Chanakyaa

khail007 said:


> BS posted by an Indian, trying to hide their own hate of Muslims behind China.
> Replace China with India in those articles everything will be cleared like daylight.





Ghost 125 said:


> lol its an irony and is funny how the west, which is smashing around muslims all over the globe cares for chinese muslims, and how the filthy dark ugly gangadeshis, who lynch and burn muslims all over gangadesh cares for chinese muslims....you know why??? becoz there is no such thing. Chinese muslims are better off thn indian muslims they are not being killed, molested, raped, burned by ugly indians or being bombed by mighty airforces of west.
> go sell your propaganda elsewhere



Please tell that to the Pakistani Author who wrote this article.

https://twitter.com/sabena_siddiqi

Why target the Messenger ?




Death Professor said:


> @waz @The Eagle @Irfan Baloch
> 
> The guy has to been trying to divert the threads and issue on many occasions, how is this allowed?



Do you think I really care becoming the 61st member to be banned ? lol No.
Who cares?

I know.. Heck.. even Mods know... That what I post is Correct. You own countrymen Agree. But Selective Propaganda is all that some Mods wish to cater.. I'm fine with that...

Im sure, even after me.. getting Banned.. No Surprise.... many Pakistani will Question the EXACT same same thing > Why Selective Focus on Muslims in India, neglecting China ?

Happy Independance day !

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## Ghost 125

XiNiX said:


> Please tell that to the Pakistani Author who wrote this article.
> 
> https://twitter.com/sabena_siddiqi
> 
> Why target the Messenger ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think I really care becoming the 61st member to be banned ? lol No.
> Who cares?
> 
> I know.. Heck.. even Mods know... That what I post is Correct. You own countrymen Agree. But Selective Propaganda is all that some Mods wish to cater.. I'm fine with that...
> 
> Im sure, even after me.. getting Banned.. No Surprise.... many Pakistani will Question the EXACT same same thing > Why Selective Focus on Muslims in India, neglecting China ?
> 
> Happy Independance day !


lol there is no shortge of hussain haqqani like men here so sell your propaganda elsewhre, and dont quote me again.


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## Chanakyaa

Ghost 125 said:


> lol there is no shortge of hussain haqqani like men here so sell your propaganda elsewhre, and dont quote me again.



Please visit the Twitter of the Author to understand your disillusion.


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## Death Professor

XiNiX said:


> Do you think I really care becoming the 61st member to be banned ? lol No.
> Who cares?



@waz @The Eagle @Irfan Baloch

You see, he said it himself he doesn't care. So it shouldn't matter much to him if he gets banned. (he did care enough to remind me about that he doesn't care about getting banned though) (btw is that count right 61 i.e)



XiNiX said:


> I know.. Heck.. even Mods know... That what I post is Correct. _You own countrymen Agree._





XiNiX said:


> many *Pakistani will Question the EXACT same same thing*



When the times come it will be answered, and btw it has already been discussed here before. Right now the issue is Kashmir not fking China.



XiNiX said:


> Happy Independance day !


F your independence day, its a black day for us.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Chanakyaa

Death Professor said:


> @waz @The Eagle @Irfan Baloch
> 
> When the times come it will be answered, and btw it has already been discussed here before. Right now the issue is Kashmir not fking China.



The f*King issue is the Same > "Supression" of Muslims" ! Am I wrong ?
or Chinese Muslims dont Matter ?

Besides, The Article I posted is WRITTEN BY A PAKISTANI, less than 24 Hours AGO !
Now be a Real Man... and Post on HER Twitter....Go, tell her.. stop writing about China.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Death Professor

XiNiX said:


> Now be a Real Man... and Post on HER Twitter....Go, tell her.. stop writing about China.



She probably covered a lot of topics and that's journalism. She is a journalist and she might have already done her piece on Kashmir. And whats this comment about masculinity? I didn't knew one could become "a real man" by typing on twitter, I guess it might be vedic science. 

@WebMaster seriously you need to embed some sort of IQ test for account creation, especially if that member has an Indian background. 



XiNiX said:


> The f*King issue is the Same > "Supression" of Muslims" ! Am I wrong ?
> or Chinese Muslims dont Matter ?



Nopes not the same, we have much deeper link with Kashmir and Kashmiri Muslims. Sure _some of us_ care about muslims all over the world hence Ummah Chummah, but all of us specially care about Kashmir and Kashmiri muslims. Did any Pakistani ever say Xinjiang is our 'shehrug'? no you f__t_d, kashmir is. So do you understand now the importance of Kashmir to us?

@waz @The Eagle @Irfan Baloch There are already threads of Uighur Muslim repression, a new article doesn't warrant that the OP gets a new chance to equate the situation to Kashmir. The OP has already been spamming his delusional narrative on other threads e.g; https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/unli...a-indias-suffocation-of-islam-is-real.631244/


----------



## Chanakyaa

Death Professor said:


> She probably covered a lot of topics and that's journalism. She is a journalist and she might have already done her piece on Kashmir. And whats this comment about masculinity? I didn't knew one could become "a real man" by typing on twitter, I guess it might be vedic science.
> 
> @WebMaster seriously you need to embed some sort of IQ test for account creation, especially if that member has an Indian background.



This Article was Written YESTERDAY. Is it an offence to Post Articles that have not been posted b4 ?
Besides , If I do Equate China with India, Which Rule of PDF gets broken ?


----------



## Clutch

XiNiX said:


> Source : https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2019/8/14/muslim-states-and-the-uighur-conundrum
> 
> In a joint statement, 22 mostly Western countries recently condemned China's mass detention of members from the Uighur ethnic Muslim minority based in its Xinjiang region.
> 
> Addressed to the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet, the letter from mostly Western nations is urging Beijing to end repression in Xinjiang and allow UN experts to visit the region.
> 
> Significantly, this is the first collective international move against China's domestic policy.
> 
> Michelle Bachelet requested the Chinese authorities for permission to undertake a fact-finding mission in Xinjiang region, and her office stressed that access would be required to key sites, in addition to the 'vocational education centres'.
> 
> 
> 
> *This is the first collective international move against China's domestic policy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surprisingly, just a few days later, 37 mostly Asian and African countries responded with a letter to the United Nations praising China's human rights record.
> 
> "Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalisation measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centres," it read.
> 
> According to this document, no terrorist attacks have taken place in the previously troubled region since the last three years due to China's effective measures for counter-terrorism and de-radicalisation.
> 
> However, the situation on the ground may be tense, and responsible estimates shared by the Human Rights Watch state that nearly 13 million ethnic Uighurs remain in detention, while over one million are being held in "political education" camps. In addition, there is a general heightened surveillance of Muslims in the entire region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *There is a general heightened surveillance of Muslims in the entire region*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unusually, most of the signatories of the second letter defending China's new policy to the UN happened to be Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Qatar, UAE and Syria.
> 
> In the past, as Organization of Islamic Co-operation (OIC) members, these countries had demanded justice for Rohingya Muslims in line with the forum's mandate to "safeguard the rights, dignity, and religious and cultural identity" of Muslim minorities.
> 
> _*Read more on the Uighur crisis:*
> - The Uighur Muslim crisis is worse than you think
> 
> - 'Cold-hearted' China policy taking Muslim Uighur children from families
> - China 'prepares DNA testing' of Muslims in Xinjiang_
> 
> _- Chinese authorities ban Muslim children from attending religious events over winter break_
> 
> _- China demands all mosques to raise national flag
> 
> - China bans Islamic baby names in Muslim-majority Xinjiang_
> 
> _- China's Uighur oppression runs deeper than Islamophobia_
> Where Xinjiang is concerned, these OIC delegates are satisfied as they had been taken on a tour by Chinese government officials.
> 
> However, some other OIC members such as Afghanistan, Albania, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia, Morocco, Tunisia, and Turkey abstained from signing the statement in support of Beijing.
> 
> Nevertheless, all Muslim majority countries have ignored the call by the UN Human Rights Council to investigate the situation in Xinjiang.
> 
> Having common ethnic links with Turkey, the eight million Uighurs, Kazaks and Kyrgyz population in Xinjiang happens to be the fourth largest concentration of Turkic people globally while Turkey itself has around 53.6 million Turks.
> 
> In the past, Uighurs have even demanded sanctuary in Turkey. Out of all the Muslim countries, Turkey had initially taken up the Uighur matter last year.
> 
> But after his recent trip to Beijing, Turkish President Erdogan also expressed his satisfaction over the situation in Xinjiang.
> 
> Ostensibly, Beijing managed to allay Ankara's concerns and convinced Erdogan that Muslims faced no discrimination as minorities in Communist China.
> 
> Keeping in mind the rampant reports in media regarding China's Xinjiang crisis, the matter deserves a more empathetic approach. Like Erdogan had said after meeting with the Chinese President, it may be possible to "find a solution to this issue that takes into consideration the sensitivities on both sides."
> 
> Maybe, more Muslim-majority countries would like to help in ending the controversy. But certain factors make them stay at a distance.
> 
> For starters, quite a few OIC members are part of China's mega-project, the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) Where business interests are concerned, these Muslim countries have their economic future tied up with China, the second global superpower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The political and practical cost of probing into the Uighur issue would be too high for any of these countries to withstand.
> 
> Secondly, even otherwise, Muslim solidarity on other issues has often come into question. Be it Syria, Yemen or even the ongoing frictions between the US and Iran; the Muslim world has always come up with a scattered response or just divided itself into two separate lobbies.
> 
> Thirdly, while China's energy security depends on the GCC countries which are its main suppliers of hydrocarbons, Beijing remains the Arab world's secure long-term consumer base for the next few decades as fluctuating oil prices and the Western demand for alternate energy sources disturbs its economic stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Read also: Welcome to Kashgar! _
> _Where you can sip tea and watch _
> _Uighurs be persecuted_
> Lastly, Xinjiang is China's border province and the success of the BRI depends on this region as it is the main land route to the Arabian Sea via Pakistan.
> 
> Any instability here can hinder Beijing's plans for trade connectivity, endanger its investments and disturb all stakeholders.
> 
> But ignoring the problem is not the best solution.
> 
> According to a research study conducted by Graham Fuller from the Central Asia-Caucasus Institute, " If the "Xinjiang problem is not resolved, it is bound to affect not only broader developments within the People's Republic of China but also the stability of Xinjiang's neighbours in Central and South Asia and, indeed of the broader world order."
> 
> But why did the problem begin and how will it end?
> 
> According to Fuller's research, over the last two decades, China's Western border province of Xinjiang underwent rapid economic development, enough to boost its per capita income to the 12th among all the 31 provinces.
> 
> Ranking third in the equity of income between its rural and urban populations in the whole of China, the region also has ample oil and gas reserves. Not only that, even the literacy and school completion rate is above the national average.
> 
> Even tourism increased by 75 percent in 2018.
> 
> Apparently, Beijing started expansive development programs worth around $7 billion to further integrate Xinjiang.
> 
> Spurring up economic activity, this boosted migration from other provinces, which in turn irked the local Muslim multi-ethnic population.
> 
> Consequently, around one decade ago, conflict broke out in Xinjiang after a workplace riot that resulted in the death of two Uighurs.
> 
> Riots took place after a police crackdown and ever since then the region has faced security and terrorism issues.
> 
> It was in 2017 that the first reports about 'detention centres' surfaced in the news and after these were mentioned in the UN report in 2018, China legalised them as training centres.
> 
> 
> 
> *Sabena Siddiqui is a foreign affairs journalist, lawyer and geopolitical analyst specialising in modern China, the Belt and Road Initiative, Middle East and South Asia. *



I dont think any muslim even heard of Uighers before a couple years ago... I didnt know about them. So its hard to relate.




Ghost 125 said:


> lol its an irony and is funny how the west, which is smashing around muslims all over the globe cares for chinese muslims, and how the filthy dark ugly gangadeshis, who lynch and burn muslims all over gangadesh cares for chinese muslims....you know why??? becoz there is no such thing. Chinese muslims are better off thn indian muslims they are not being killed, molested, raped, burned by ugly indians or being bombed by mighty airforces of west.
> go sell your propaganda elsewhere



Exactly.


----------



## Indos

It is because Muslim countries are in majority lead by Nationalist leader. But as Muslim are moving toward conservatism, we would see more Islamist leader come out after 2024. InshaAlah.


----------



## khail007

XiNiX said:


> Please tell that to the Pakistani Author who wrote this article.
> 
> https://twitter.com/sabena_siddiqi
> 
> Why target the Messenger ?



Huh ... author, at social media, everyone is author/journalist; even many of them with false flagging.
If someone starts a thread based upon such BS then that messenger bound to be targeted.


----------



## Chanakyaa

khail007 said:


> Huh ... author, at social media, everyone is author/journalist; even many of them with false flagging.
> If someone starts a thread based upon such BS then that messenger bound to be targeted.



No. She is not.
Read her Posts.

https://pk.linkedin.com/in/sabena-siddiqi-b163b822

Foreign Affairs Journalist, Lawyer and geopolitical analyst writing about modern China, the Belt and Road Initiative, Middle East and South Asia.

Works in > Bylines in Al-Monitor, The Diplomat, South China Morning Post, Al Arabiya English and Asia Research Institute's Asia Dialogue.


----------



## khail007

XiNiX said:


> No. She is not.
> Read her Posts.
> 
> https://pk.linkedin.com/in/sabena-siddiqi-b163b822
> 
> Foreign Affairs Journalist, Lawyer and geopolitical analyst writing about modern China, the Belt and Road Initiative, Middle East and South Asia.
> 
> Works in > Bylines in Al-Monitor, The Diplomat, South China Morning Post, Al Arabiya English and Asia Research Institute's Asia Dialogue.



You can't guarantee everyone, you could even make a LinkedIn account reflecting you are holding degrees/experience second to none. LinkedIn profiles does not guarantee it to be genuine, so is the FB/Twitter etc. Much of stuff usually based on false info.


----------



## American Pakistani

Uyghurs is not disputed territory. Muslims must focus on Indian occupied kashmir and Palestine.


----------



## Deltadart

The gangu who opened this thread has been making trouble all over the forum. Perhaps it is about time to send him back to where he belongs.


----------



## Chanakyaa

Deltadart said:


> The gangu who opened this thread has been making trouble all over the forum. Perhaps it is about time to send him back to where he belongs.



You forgot to do the most essential part > Tag @waz


----------



## Mahmood-ur-Rehman

XiNiX said:


> *Written by : Sabena Siqddiqui ( from Pakistan )
> August 14, 2019*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source : https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2019/8/14/muslim-states-and-the-uighur-conundrum
> 
> In a joint statement, 22 mostly Western countries recently condemned China's mass detention of members from the Uighur ethnic Muslim minority based in its Xinjiang region.
> 
> Addressed to the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet, the letter from mostly Western nations is urging Beijing to end repression in Xinjiang and allow UN experts to visit the region.
> 
> Significantly, this is the first collective international move against China's domestic policy.
> 
> Michelle Bachelet requested the Chinese authorities for permission to undertake a fact-finding mission in Xinjiang region, and her office stressed that access would be required to key sites, in addition to the 'vocational education centres'.
> 
> 
> 
> *This is the first collective international move against China's domestic policy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surprisingly, just a few days later, 37 mostly Asian and African countries responded with a letter to the United Nations praising China's human rights record.
> 
> "Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalisation measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centres," it read.
> 
> According to this document, no terrorist attacks have taken place in the previously troubled region since the last three years due to China's effective measures for counter-terrorism and de-radicalisation.
> 
> However, the situation on the ground may be tense, and responsible estimates shared by the Human Rights Watch state that nearly 13 million ethnic Uighurs remain in detention, while over one million are being held in "political education" camps. In addition, there is a general heightened surveillance of Muslims in the entire region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *There is a general heightened surveillance of Muslims in the entire region*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unusually, most of the signatories of the second letter defending China's new policy to the UN happened to be Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Qatar, UAE and Syria.
> 
> In the past, as Organization of Islamic Co-operation (OIC) members, these countries had demanded justice for Rohingya Muslims in line with the forum's mandate to "safeguard the rights, dignity, and religious and cultural identity" of Muslim minorities.
> 
> _*Read more on the Uighur crisis:*
> - The Uighur Muslim crisis is worse than you think
> 
> - 'Cold-hearted' China policy taking Muslim Uighur children from families
> - China 'prepares DNA testing' of Muslims in Xinjiang_
> 
> _- Chinese authorities ban Muslim children from attending religious events over winter break_
> 
> _- China demands all mosques to raise national flag
> 
> - China bans Islamic baby names in Muslim-majority Xinjiang_
> 
> _- China's Uighur oppression runs deeper than Islamophobia_
> Where Xinjiang is concerned, these OIC delegates are satisfied as they had been taken on a tour by Chinese government officials.
> 
> However, some other OIC members such as Afghanistan, Albania, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia, Morocco, Tunisia, and Turkey abstained from signing the statement in support of Beijing.
> 
> Nevertheless, all Muslim majority countries have ignored the call by the UN Human Rights Council to investigate the situation in Xinjiang.
> 
> Having common ethnic links with Turkey, the eight million Uighurs, Kazaks and Kyrgyz population in Xinjiang happens to be the fourth largest concentration of Turkic people globally while Turkey itself has around 53.6 million Turks.
> 
> In the past, Uighurs have even demanded sanctuary in Turkey. Out of all the Muslim countries, Turkey had initially taken up the Uighur matter last year.
> 
> But after his recent trip to Beijing, Turkish President Erdogan also expressed his satisfaction over the situation in Xinjiang.
> 
> Ostensibly, Beijing managed to allay Ankara's concerns and convinced Erdogan that Muslims faced no discrimination as minorities in Communist China.
> 
> Keeping in mind the rampant reports in media regarding China's Xinjiang crisis, the matter deserves a more empathetic approach. Like Erdogan had said after meeting with the Chinese President, it may be possible to "find a solution to this issue that takes into consideration the sensitivities on both sides."
> 
> Maybe, more Muslim-majority countries would like to help in ending the controversy. But certain factors make them stay at a distance.
> 
> For starters, quite a few OIC members are part of China's mega-project, the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) Where business interests are concerned, these Muslim countries have their economic future tied up with China, the second global superpower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The political and practical cost of probing into the Uighur issue would be too high for any of these countries to withstand.
> 
> Secondly, even otherwise, Muslim solidarity on other issues has often come into question. Be it Syria, Yemen or even the ongoing frictions between the US and Iran; the Muslim world has always come up with a scattered response or just divided itself into two separate lobbies.
> 
> Thirdly, while China's energy security depends on the GCC countries which are its main suppliers of hydrocarbons, Beijing remains the Arab world's secure long-term consumer base for the next few decades as fluctuating oil prices and the Western demand for alternate energy sources disturbs its economic stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Read also: Welcome to Kashgar! _
> _Where you can sip tea and watch _
> _Uighurs be persecuted_
> Lastly, Xinjiang is China's border province and the success of the BRI depends on this region as it is the main land route to the Arabian Sea via Pakistan.
> 
> Any instability here can hinder Beijing's plans for trade connectivity, endanger its investments and disturb all stakeholders.
> 
> But ignoring the problem is not the best solution.
> 
> According to a research study conducted by Graham Fuller from the Central Asia-Caucasus Institute, " If the "Xinjiang problem is not resolved, it is bound to affect not only broader developments within the People's Republic of China but also the stability of Xinjiang's neighbours in Central and South Asia and, indeed of the broader world order."
> 
> But why did the problem begin and how will it end?
> 
> According to Fuller's research, over the last two decades, China's Western border province of Xinjiang underwent rapid economic development, enough to boost its per capita income to the 12th among all the 31 provinces.
> 
> Ranking third in the equity of income between its rural and urban populations in the whole of China, the region also has ample oil and gas reserves. Not only that, even the literacy and school completion rate is above the national average.
> 
> Even tourism increased by 75 percent in 2018.
> 
> Apparently, Beijing started expansive development programs worth around $7 billion to further integrate Xinjiang.
> 
> Spurring up economic activity, this boosted migration from other provinces, which in turn irked the local Muslim multi-ethnic population.
> 
> Consequently, around one decade ago, conflict broke out in Xinjiang after a workplace riot that resulted in the death of two Uighurs.
> 
> Riots took place after a police crackdown and ever since then the region has faced security and terrorism issues.
> 
> It was in 2017 that the first reports about 'detention centres' surfaced in the news and after these were mentioned in the UN report in 2018, China legalised them as training centres.
> 
> 
> 
> *Sabena Siddiqui is a foreign affairs journalist, lawyer and geopolitical analyst specialising in modern China, the Belt and Road Initiative, Middle East and South Asia.
> 
> Also Reported in :
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/11/asia/xinjiang-uyghur-un-letter-intl-hnk/index.html*
> https://uhrp.org/news-commentary/wh...e-turning-their-back-chinas-repressed-uighurs


Our first responsibility is Kashmir where you are oppressor with what face you are favoring Muslim Hypocrite


----------



## Gandhi G in da house

XiNiX said:


> The f*King issue is the Same > "Supression" of Muslims" ! Am I wrong ?
> or Chinese Muslims dont Matter ?
> 
> Besides, The Article I posted is WRITTEN BY A PAKISTANI, less than 24 Hours AGO !
> Now be a Real Man... and Post on HER Twitter....Go, tell her.. stop writing about China.



They locked my thread on China sterilising Muslim women man


----------



## beijingwalker

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=is+china+safe


----------



## Dubious

Thread is about China not india! Keep it that way please!


----------



## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> Thread is about China not india! Keep it that way please!


No, the thread is talking about Muslim countries.


----------



## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> No, the thread is talking about Muslim countries.


and their reaction to China and Uighurs....

india is not a Muslim country


----------



## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> and their reaction to China and Uighurs....
> 
> india is not a Muslim country


The OP is an Indian, when I post Indian stuff they also talk about China, even China is not part of the report.


----------



## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> The OP is an Indian, when I post Indian stuff they also talk about China, even China is not part of the report.


report and we will clean it...

2 wrongs do a right! 

You dont reply back to trolls you report them!


----------



## beijingwalker

If India believes what we did to make Xinjiang wealthy, peaceful and prosperous is wrong, you can bring it to UN and see how many will support you, you are just echoing the west who is responsible for most of the ongoing misery around the world.


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

China / Pakistan should teach India a lesson so it stops spreading false fake stories

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Chanakyaa

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> China / Pakistan should teach India a lesson so it stops spreading false fake stories



The Article is from Pakistan.
Are you accusing your own country of spreading Lies?



beijingwalker said:


> The OP is an Indian, when I post Indian stuff they also talk about China, even China is not part of the report.



The correct method is to report such posts. 

On Topic :

If India believes what we did to make Xinjiang wealthy, peaceful and prosperous is wrong, you can bring it to UN and see how many will support you, you are just echoing the west who is responsible for most of the ongoing misery around the world.

Is this Thread about India ? Its WRITTEN BY A PAKISTANI !


----------



## masterchief_mirza

XiNiX said:


> Please tell that to the Pakistani Author who wrote this article.
> 
> https://twitter.com/sabena_siddiqi
> 
> Why target the Messenger ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think I really care becoming the 61st member to be banned ? lol No.
> Who cares?
> 
> I know.. Heck.. even Mods know... That what I post is Correct. You own countrymen Agree. But Selective Propaganda is all that some Mods wish to cater.. I'm fine with that...
> 
> Im sure, even after me.. getting Banned.. No Surprise.... many Pakistani will Question the EXACT same same thing > Why Selective Focus on Muslims in India, neglecting China ?
> 
> Happy Independance day !


You're full of crap. Go empty some of it out in a field somewhere then come back.

Chinese muslims are a happy, loyal bunch, who would love in fact to assist their kashmiri and Pakistani allies by smashing some gangadeshi soldiers at your northern border. Nowhere in China would hindutva terrorists be allowed to do what Modi has gotten away with in India - Muslims are very safe in china.

Your propaganda is useless now.. Xinjiang, Balochistan... Your propaganda machine has ground to a halt throughout south Asia.

Welcome to the new dawn - green, white and red....not a speck of saffron in sight. By independence day next year, the Indian ocean will have been renamed the Sino-Pak Ocean.


----------



## Chanakyaa

masterchief_mirza said:


> You're full of crap. Go empty some of it out in a field somewhere then come back.
> 
> Chinese muslims are a happy, loyal bunch, who would love in fact to assist their kashmiri and Pakistani allies by smashing some gangadeshi soldiers at your northern border. Nowhere in China would hindutva terrorists be allowed to do what Modi has gotten away with in India - Muslims are very safe in china.
> 
> Your propaganda is useless now.. Xinjiang, Balochistan... Your propaganda machine has ground to a halt throughout south Asia.
> 
> Welcome to the new dawn - green, white and red....not a speck of saffron in sight. By independence day next year, the Indian ocean will have been renamed the Sino-Pak Ocean.



Muslim Women in China are being sterlized. Open your eyes.


----------



## beijingwalker

XiNiX said:


> Muslim Women in China are being sterlized. Open your eyes.


Is that woman your sister or someone you personally know? Pure propaganda, one child policy was long abolished in China and even during one child policy time, Muslims didn't not have to follow it because of China's preferential treatiment policy towards them, Uighur's population growth is the highest among all Chinese ethnic groups, number form 6 million soaring to over 10 million in barely 20 years, the same time frame that China's one child policy was started till ended. You are so ignorant about Chinese policies and was just spewing BS.

*Affirmative action in China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_China*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kailash Kumar

‘Nightmare’ as Egypt aids China detain Uighurs

AFP

August 19, 2019




CAIRO: A restaurant where Uighur students used to eat their traditional cuisine in the Egyptian capital’s Nasr City area.

CAIRO: Abdulmalik Abdulaziz, an Uighur student, was arrested and handcuffed by Egyptian police and when they removed his blindfold he was surprised to see Chinese officials questioning him in custody.

He was picked up in broad daylight with friends, and taken to a Cairo police station where Chinese officials grilled him about what he was doing in Egypt.

The three officials spoke to him in Chinese, addressing him using his Chinese name not his Uighur one.

“They never said their names or mentioned who they were exactly,” said Abdulaziz, 27, who spoke this news agency helping to uncover new details of the 2017 arrests of over 90 Uighurs from the mostly Muslim Turkic minority.

Abdulaziz, like most swept up in the three-day crackdown in the first week of July 2017, was an Islamic theology student at Al-Azhar, the Sunni Muslim world’s most prestigious educational institution.

“Egyptian policemen said ‘the Chinese government says that you are terrorists’. But we responded that we are only Al-Azhar students,” said Abdulaziz.

China is one of Egypt’s biggest investors, pouring money into massive infrastructure projects such as the construction of a new administrative capital east of Cairo. Trade between the two countries reached a record high of $13.8 billion last year.

Just three weeks before the raid, Egypt and China signed a security memorandum focusing on “combatting terrorism”.

After a few days of questioning in Police Station 2 in Nasr City, an upmarket suburb of Cairo, Abdulaziz was sent to Tora, one of Egypt’s most notorious jails.

Released after 60 days in detention, he escaped, seeking asylum in Turkey, a hub of Uighur immigration, in October 2017.

*‘Same tactics’ -*

Shams Eddin Ahmed, 26, was arrested outside the Moussa Ibn Naseer mosque on 4 July, 2017 in Nasr City.

His father in Xinjiang, a region in northwest China, also disappeared that month.

Many Uighurs refer to Xinjiang as East Turkestan, including those interviewed, but for Beijing it has troubling connotations of independence and activism. “I still don’t know if he’s dead or alive,” he recounted.

Unmarked black vans pulled up as afternoon prayers ended and around five policemen arrested several Uighur worshippers.

Ahmed was also transferred to Tora, the stifling complex which houses many of Egypt’s high-profile political prisoners.

“I felt so afraid when I got there. It was extremely dark... I thought to myself how will we ever get out of here?” he said.

“I was afraid that they would hand us over to the Chinese authorities,” added Ahmed.

The Uighurs were split into two groups of 45 to 50 men each and languished in large cells for weeks.

Two weeks before their release, the Uighurs and other Chinese Muslims of different ethnic ancestry, were divided into three groups, and given colour codes.

Red, green or yellow determined if they would be deported, released or further questioned.

Ahmed said Egyptian prison guards handcuffed, blindfolded and then hauled many of the group into vans heading to Cairo police stations.

During 11 days in police custody, he claims three Chinese officials questioned him specifically about his father.

“Where is he and how does he send you money?” he said.

Ahmed was in the green group, meaning he was eventually released. He fled to Istanbul in early October 2017.

Abdulweli Ayup, a Norway-based Uighur linguist who has researched the community in Egypt, confirmed hearing similar accounts from other detainees.

“It’s the same practice and tactic implemented in internment camps in China. I don’t believe it’s a coincidence,” he said, adding Chinese authorities use the same three colour codes for detained Uighurs.

*‘Muslim brothers’ -*

Human rights groups say more than one million Uighurs and other mostly Muslim minorities are held in a network of internment camps in China where they endure political indoctrination.

Beijing says the “vocational education centres” are necessary to counter religious extremism.

Germany-based independent researcher Adrian Zenz, who has mapped out camps in Xinjiang, said: “China’s new push to redefine human rights in terms of economic development... suits many of these nations.” “A country giving the Chinese significant leeway can in return expect significant favours,” he added, referring to the Egyptian-Chinese security cooperation.

Egypt’s interior ministry and the Chinese embassy in Cairo did not respond to repeated requests for comment.

“Those found to be overstaying contrary to the law, including Chinese citizens among other nationalities, are expelled”, said Ahmed Hafez, Egypt’s foreign ministry spokesman, when asked about the deportation of Uighurs in 2017. He did not answer questions on the 60-day detention of the group that had been picked up by police.

Darren Byler, an anthropologist at Washington University, noted “similar attempts by Chinese officials in Thailand and elsewhere” to extradite diaspora Uighurs.

“The autonomy with which Chinese authorities were permitted to act in Egypt is unprecedented,” he said.

Ayup, the linguist, explains the devastating effect of the 2017 raids that reduced a thriving community of around 6,000 people to about 50 families.

“For Uighurs it’s a nightmare that your Muslim brother would invite Chinese officials to interrogate you. They have lost their belief and have become paranoid in the diaspora,” he said.

Abdulaziz considers himself fortunate, but the fate of other Uighurs expelled by Egypt preys on his mind.

“It has been years since we heard anything about those deported and our families. We just don’t know.”

https://www.dawn.com/news/1500386/nightmare-as-egypt-aids-china-detain-uighurs#comment


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## Dual Wielder

They can't live in peace in their own country occupied by these barbaric Mongolians, and they can't live in peace outside... The Chinese learned well from their Japanese and British masters, guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.


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## Numerous

Sell out fellow Muslims then don't be surprised if Allah's punishment hits you or your nation.


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## maximuswarrior

Whoever believes Dawn might as well believe Fox News.

This is the same media outlet opposed to CPEC and supports India.

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## Numerous

maximuswarrior said:


> Whoever believes Dawn might as well believe Fox News.
> 
> This is the same media outlet opposed to CPEC and supports India.



I've read a news story about how china goes after uighurs in egypt way before (maybe a year before) I read this dawn article bro.

I do not like dawn. In fact, I think they should be censored and shut down. But just because it is dawn, it doesn't mean what they've said is false.


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## SHAH07

Chinese Gandigi ko bhi ALLAH Gharak karai..


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## Pakhtoon yum

SHAH07 said:


> Chinese Gandigi ko bhi ALLAH Gharak karai..


Did you know that the Chinese muslims in Xinjiang weren't happy when the Chinese started open trade with Pakistan, through GB. They said stuff like "the muslims in pakistan arent like us they are different" "they follow more strict forms of Islam and it is a threat to us"

Just putting this out there


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## Numerous

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Did you know that the Chinese muslims in Xinjiang weren't happy when the Chinese started open trade with Pakistan, through GB. They said stuff like "the muslims in pakistan arent like us they are different" "they follow more strict forms of Islam and it is a threat to us"
> 
> Just putting this out there



You know, I read an article where the chinese were attempting to demolish a hui Muslim mosque and you know what the hui Muslim who was being interviewed said? He said something a long the lines of "we are not extremists like the uighurs, why are they coming after us?".

Likewise some Muslims on here think that Russia/Iran/Assad are fighting extremists in Syria and so they give their support against their fellow Muslims. And this list sort of goes on and on.

I get pretty angry when some pakistanis on here say the same things about British Muslims. They call British Muslims extremists etc... But you know what bro? Let these people say these things. That sins on them. But we shouldn't forget our duty as Muslims. And even then, we shouldn't hold a whole ethnic group responsible for the words of some of their members. If one of these muslim guys, on this forum, who constantly badmouth my british muslim community as extremists, were locked up or oppressed by some kuffar nation, I would still be willing to fight for their freedom.


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## Pakhtoon yum

Numerous said:


> You know, I read an article where the chinese were attempting to demolish a hui Muslim mosque and you know what the hui Muslim who was being interviewed said? He said something a long the lines of "we are not extremists like the uighurs, why are they coming after us?".
> 
> Likewise some Muslims on here think that Russia/Iran/Assad are fighting extremists in Syria and so they give their support against their fellow Muslims. And this list sort of goes on and on.
> 
> I get pretty angry when some pakistanis on here say the same things about British Muslims. They call British Muslims extremists etc... But you know what bro? Let these people say these things. That sins on them. But we shouldn't forget our duty as Muslims. And even then, we shouldn't hold a whole ethnic group responsible for the words of some of their members. If one of these muslim guys, on this forum, who constantly badmouth my british muslim community as extremists, were locked up or oppressed by some kuffar nation, I would still be willing to fight for their freedom.


I get what you are saying but that completely different from what I'm saying.


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## Numerous

Pakhtoon yum said:


> I get what you are saying but that completely different from what I'm saying.



I see. What are you saying bro? Sorry if I've misunderstood.


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## maximuswarrior

Numerous said:


> I've read a news story about how china goes after uighurs in egypt way before (maybe a year before) I read this dawn article bro.
> 
> I do not like dawn. In fact, I think they should be censored and shut down. But just because it is dawn, it doesn't mean what they've said is false.



It is a possibility. I have met some political Uyghur refugees here in The Netherlands. They don't speak fondly of China, but when I ask them the critical questions they are reluctant to answer. Many are inspired by Western propaganda against China. In fact I would not be surprised if they were imported as mouthpieces.

I am not going to defend any wrongdoing by China. However, I am not going to believe Western propaganda against China. It is too obvious that the West is playing a dirty game of maligning China for political reasons.

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## Pakhtoon yum

Numerous said:


> I see. What are you saying bro? Sorry if I've misunderstood.


That its very convenient for countries like Pakistan to take the blame for everything. First for being "different" and then not helping them get out of their own sh$t. For example look at the Kashmiris, they sidelined Pakistan and now when they are neck deep in their own sh$t, they suddenly all became Pakistanis.

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## Pakhtoon yum

maximuswarrior said:


> It is a possibility. I have met some political Uyghur refugees here in The Netherlands. They don't speak fondly of China, but when I ask them the critical questions they are reluctant to answer. Many are inspired by Western propaganda against China. In fact I would not be surprised if they were imported as mouthpieces.
> 
> I am not going to defend any wrongdoing by China. However, I am not going to believe Western propaganda against China. It is too obvious that the West is playing a dirty game of maligning China for political reasons.


Spoke to a refugee here from Pakistan. Guess where he was running from? Kashmir, Pakistan. He gave pakistan a bad name and I cursed him for that.

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## Numerous

Pakhtoon yum said:


> That its very convenient for countries like Pakistan to take the blame for everything. First for being "different" and then not helping them get out of their own sh$t. For example look at the Kashmiris, they sidelined Pakistan and now when they are neck deep in their own sh$t, they suddenly all became Pakistanis.



Oh I get you. Yeh I wouldn't take the blame for others faults.



maximuswarrior said:


> It is a possibility. I have met some political Uyghur refugees here in The Netherlands. They don't speak fondly of China, but when I ask them the critical questions they are reluctant to answer. Many are inspired by Western propaganda against China. In fact I would not be surprised if they were imported as mouthpieces.
> 
> I am not going to defend any wrongdoing by China. However, I am not going to believe Western propaganda against China. It is too obvious that the West is playing a dirty game of maligning China for political reasons.



Yeh the west has it's own agenda. The only reason I believe it because I have seen Muslims report it and questioned an uighur in real life before too like you did. And China changes their story too much too and plays the old "muslims are extremists/terrorists and that's what we're dealing with" card, so it makes them suspect too.

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## Pakistani Fighter

Jyotish said:


> ‘Nightmare’ as Egypt aids China detain Uighurs
> 
> AFP
> 
> August 19, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CAIRO: A restaurant where Uighur students used to eat their traditional cuisine in the Egyptian capital’s Nasr City area.
> 
> CAIRO: Abdulmalik Abdulaziz, an Uighur student, was arrested and handcuffed by Egyptian police and when they removed his blindfold he was surprised to see Chinese officials questioning him in custody.
> 
> He was picked up in broad daylight with friends, and taken to a Cairo police station where Chinese officials grilled him about what he was doing in Egypt.
> 
> The three officials spoke to him in Chinese, addressing him using his Chinese name not his Uighur one.
> 
> “They never said their names or mentioned who they were exactly,” said Abdulaziz, 27, who spoke this news agency helping to uncover new details of the 2017 arrests of over 90 Uighurs from the mostly Muslim Turkic minority.
> 
> Abdulaziz, like most swept up in the three-day crackdown in the first week of July 2017, was an Islamic theology student at Al-Azhar, the Sunni Muslim world’s most prestigious educational institution.
> 
> “Egyptian policemen said ‘the Chinese government says that you are terrorists’. But we responded that we are only Al-Azhar students,” said Abdulaziz.
> 
> China is one of Egypt’s biggest investors, pouring money into massive infrastructure projects such as the construction of a new administrative capital east of Cairo. Trade between the two countries reached a record high of $13.8 billion last year.
> 
> Just three weeks before the raid, Egypt and China signed a security memorandum focusing on “combatting terrorism”.
> 
> After a few days of questioning in Police Station 2 in Nasr City, an upmarket suburb of Cairo, Abdulaziz was sent to Tora, one of Egypt’s most notorious jails.
> 
> Released after 60 days in detention, he escaped, seeking asylum in Turkey, a hub of Uighur immigration, in October 2017.
> 
> *‘Same tactics’ -*
> 
> Shams Eddin Ahmed, 26, was arrested outside the Moussa Ibn Naseer mosque on 4 July, 2017 in Nasr City.
> 
> His father in Xinjiang, a region in northwest China, also disappeared that month.
> 
> Many Uighurs refer to Xinjiang as East Turkestan, including those interviewed, but for Beijing it has troubling connotations of independence and activism. “I still don’t know if he’s dead or alive,” he recounted.
> 
> Unmarked black vans pulled up as afternoon prayers ended and around five policemen arrested several Uighur worshippers.
> 
> Ahmed was also transferred to Tora, the stifling complex which houses many of Egypt’s high-profile political prisoners.
> 
> “I felt so afraid when I got there. It was extremely dark... I thought to myself how will we ever get out of here?” he said.
> 
> “I was afraid that they would hand us over to the Chinese authorities,” added Ahmed.
> 
> The Uighurs were split into two groups of 45 to 50 men each and languished in large cells for weeks.
> 
> Two weeks before their release, the Uighurs and other Chinese Muslims of different ethnic ancestry, were divided into three groups, and given colour codes.
> 
> Red, green or yellow determined if they would be deported, released or further questioned.
> 
> Ahmed said Egyptian prison guards handcuffed, blindfolded and then hauled many of the group into vans heading to Cairo police stations.
> 
> During 11 days in police custody, he claims three Chinese officials questioned him specifically about his father.
> 
> “Where is he and how does he send you money?” he said.
> 
> Ahmed was in the green group, meaning he was eventually released. He fled to Istanbul in early October 2017.
> 
> Abdulweli Ayup, a Norway-based Uighur linguist who has researched the community in Egypt, confirmed hearing similar accounts from other detainees.
> 
> “It’s the same practice and tactic implemented in internment camps in China. I don’t believe it’s a coincidence,” he said, adding Chinese authorities use the same three colour codes for detained Uighurs.
> 
> *‘Muslim brothers’ -*
> 
> Human rights groups say more than one million Uighurs and other mostly Muslim minorities are held in a network of internment camps in China where they endure political indoctrination.
> 
> Beijing says the “vocational education centres” are necessary to counter religious extremism.
> 
> Germany-based independent researcher Adrian Zenz, who has mapped out camps in Xinjiang, said: “China’s new push to redefine human rights in terms of economic development... suits many of these nations.” “A country giving the Chinese significant leeway can in return expect significant favours,” he added, referring to the Egyptian-Chinese security cooperation.
> 
> Egypt’s interior ministry and the Chinese embassy in Cairo did not respond to repeated requests for comment.
> 
> “Those found to be overstaying contrary to the law, including Chinese citizens among other nationalities, are expelled”, said Ahmed Hafez, Egypt’s foreign ministry spokesman, when asked about the deportation of Uighurs in 2017. He did not answer questions on the 60-day detention of the group that had been picked up by police.
> 
> Darren Byler, an anthropologist at Washington University, noted “similar attempts by Chinese officials in Thailand and elsewhere” to extradite diaspora Uighurs.
> 
> “The autonomy with which Chinese authorities were permitted to act in Egypt is unprecedented,” he said.
> 
> Ayup, the linguist, explains the devastating effect of the 2017 raids that reduced a thriving community of around 6,000 people to about 50 families.
> 
> “For Uighurs it’s a nightmare that your Muslim brother would invite Chinese officials to interrogate you. They have lost their belief and have become paranoid in the diaspora,” he said.
> 
> Abdulaziz considers himself fortunate, but the fate of other Uighurs expelled by Egypt preys on his mind.
> 
> “It has been years since we heard anything about those deported and our families. We just don’t know.”
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1500386/nightmare-as-egypt-aids-china-detain-uighurs#comment


@beijingwalker


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## Sabretooth

Numerous said:


> You know, I read an article where the Chinese were attempting to demolish a hui Muslim mosque and you know what the hui Muslim who was being interviewed said? He said something along the lines of "we are not extremists like the Uighurs, why are they coming after us?".
> 
> Likewise, some Muslims on here think that Russia/Iran/Assad are fighting extremists in Syria and so they give their support against their fellow Muslims. And this list sort of goes on and on.
> 
> I get pretty angry when some Pakistanis on here say the same things about British Muslims. They call British Muslims extremists etc... But you know what bro? Let these people say these things. That sins on them. But we shouldn't forget our duty as Muslims. And even then, we shouldn't hold a whole ethnic group responsible for the words of some of their members. If one of these Muslim guys, on this forum, who constantly badmouth my British Muslim community as extremists, were locked up or oppressed by some kuffar nation, I would still be willing to fight for their freedom.



You actually gave good examples of the root cause of our problems. These days we Muslims don't spare a second declaring each other kafir and extremist. Everybody thinks they have a better understanding of Islam and are better Muslims than the rest.


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## Numerous

Sabretooth said:


> You actually gave good examples of the root cause of our problems. These days we Muslims don't spare a second declaring each other kafir and extremist. Everybody thinks they have a better understanding of Islam and are better Muslims than the rest.



Pretty much. 

People too open to stabbing each other in back just for some brownie points (not talking about anyone on this thread). It happens amongsts the UK muslim community too, seen members of one sect call another extremists

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## beijingwalker

When Pakistan and Kashmir is in trouble, how many of those "Muslim Brothers" came to help? It's just a catchy slogan being used by those who have ulterior motives, all countries look after their own interest first, Muslims or non Muslims, it's not wise for Muslim countries to fight every non Muslim country and Muslim countries themselves, fortunately most Muslim countries are smart enough to know this and that's why almost all Muslim countries are China's friends and many of them came forward to defend China against western smearing campaign against China over Xinjiang.


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## Dai Toruko

More and more Uighurs are using TikTok to raise awareness about missing family members, who they say are detained in Chinese internment camps in East Turkistan.

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## vi-va

Dai Toruko said:


> More and more Uighurs are using TikTok to raise awareness about missing family members, who they say are detained in Chinese internment camps in East Turkistan.


Frankly speaking, I watched so many TRT video on youtube, and news report. Really misleading, questionable credibility.

I understand some people still hold The Ottoman Empire dream. But Xinjiang has nothing to do with your fantasies.

1916: The Great Powers Secretly Agree to Dismember the Ottoman Empire and the Arab World

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## Hexciter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1164423488528179200

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## vi-va

Hexciter said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1164423488528179200


they ate free to practice any religion as long as not breaking the law, especially terrorism, extremism, and separatism. such as ETIM funded by cia


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## barjo

Hexciter said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1164423488528179200


Not all religion (must) have a God the old way that some said as kafir (they force and brand it) believe in nature balance. Some should honour what they believe include materialism idea, there are also salvation in any kind of teaching of peace and harmony


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## Hexciter

Uighurs Use Videos to Draw Attention to Missing Family Members







Haunting images on TikTok’s domestic Chinese affiliate appear to challenge Beijing’s assurances about mass-internment campaign

By Eva Dou and Philip Wen; Aug. 22, 2019

BEIJING—TikTok has become one of China’s most globally successful mobile apps by embracing silly, comedic short video clips.

Now, Uighur Muslims from China’s northwestern Xinjiang region are using a domestic version of the app to post haunting videos that appear to memorialize missing family members and draw attention to Beijing’s mass-internment campaign.

In recent days, China’s Uighurs have posted dozens of videos that show them crying silently in front of family portraits. Such public expressions of grief have been rare in Xinjiang, where heavy censorship has prevented little aside from official propaganda from trickling out.

Posted on Douyin, the domestic Chinese version of TikTok, the videos’ ambiguity appears to have helped them slip past censors at first, but many have since been deleted. There is no indication of what happened to the people pictured in the family portraits.

The parent company of Douyin and TikTok, Beijing-based Bytedance Inc., didn’t respond to a request for comment. Bytedance is now one of the world’s most valuable startups, with an estimated $75 billion valuation.

Many of the accounts that had uploaded the videos listed Xinjiang as their location, including from the prefectures of Kashgar, Aksu and Kizilsu. While some of the accounts remained active on Wednesday, the vast majority had been deleted or disabled by Thursday. Of the accounts that remained active, other videos of their daily lives remain, but the videos with the pictures of family members in the background are no longer there.

Like other social-media platforms operating in China, Douyin is required by law to delete any content that expresses political dissent. Online users have become skilled at developing new methods to circumvent censorship—employing puns, symbols and, in this case, silent clips on social-media apps. Even so, censors are usually close behind.

China’s web regulators have closely policed popular social-media platforms like Weibo and WeChat. One of Bytedance’s popular news accounts was briefly shut down by authorities last year for vulgar content.

To accommodate the different audiences, Bytedance operates Douyin and TikTok separately. Unlike the heavily censored Douyin, users of the global app TikTok aren’t subject to Chinese censorship, though TikTok has come under attack in various countries for allowing sexually suggestive clips and videos promoting suicide to circulate widely.

The tearful videos challenge Beijing’s claims about Xinjiang. Western scholars estimate more than 1 million Turkic Uighurs and other Muslim minorities have been arbitrarily detained in Xinjiang in the past few years. Xinjiang officials say they aren’t kept in detention camps but in vocational schools, which rehabilitate extremists and petty criminals, and that students attend voluntarily.

Authorities said in July that a majority of those in the centers had returned home—a claim that hasn’t been independently verified. Shohrat Zakir, Xinjiang’s governor and No. 2 official, said at the time that more than 90% of those released had found jobs that they like, but he provided no evidence. Abduweli Ayup, a Norway-based linguist originally from Xinjiang, said the videos appear to be an effort by some Uighurs to refute the claims.

“I think this is the answer from the people,” said Mr. Ayup. “They say, ‘If they are 90%, then where are my brothers and sisters and relatives?’”

Much about conditions in Xinjiang remains unknown due to an official clampdown on information and restrictions on travel to the region. While some overseas Uighurs say family members have been released this year, others can’t confirm whether loved ones are alive or dead.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said Thursday that he hadn’t seen the Douyin videos but added that China sought to meet any reasonable demands from Chinese people living overseas. Xinjiang’s government didn’t immediately reply to a faxed request for comment.

Arslan Hidayat, a Uighur-Australian activist based in Turkey, is among a number of activists who have broadened the reach of the videos by sharing dozens on Facebook and Twitter. He said the silence in the videos and circumspect responses to questions in the comments sections reinforced the likelihood that those loved ones weren’t free.

“One posts, ‘When are we going to see our brothers?’ and another says, ‘Oh, stay strong, they’ll come out soon,’ ” Mr. Hidayat said.

In recent months, Beijing has intensified efforts to counter Western condemnation of the Xinjiang detentions, which U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has called “the stain of the century.” Beijing rallied 37 allies in July to sign a letter in support of China’s Xinjiang policies after the U.K., Japan and 20 other countries signed one calling on Beijing to end its repressive policies on Uighurs.

Halmurat Harri Uyghur, a Finland-based activist, said Xinjiang residents would have known they were risking government punishment by posting the videos to Douyin.

“If they are in the Uighur region, they are risking their lives to give testimonies,” he said.

Vanessa Frangville, a Chinese studies professor at Belgium’s Université Libre de Bruxelles, said the silent crying of the videos reflected the tightness of restrictions on Uighurs to prevent them from speaking freely about conditions in the region.

“They use body, eye or finger language that is still to be decoded,” she said.

—Shan Li contributed to this article.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/uighur...33?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/yyQyFRkQO6

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## beijingwalker

Hexciter said:


> Uighurs Use Videos to Draw Attention to Missing Family Members
> 
> View attachment 575352
> 
> 
> Haunting images on TikTok’s domestic Chinese affiliate appear to challenge Beijing’s assurances about mass-internment campaign
> 
> By Eva Dou and Philip Wen; Aug. 22, 2019
> 
> BEIJING—TikTok has become one of China’s most globally successful mobile apps by embracing silly, comedic short video clips.
> 
> Now, Uighur Muslims from China’s northwestern Xinjiang region are using a domestic version of the app to post haunting videos that appear to memorialize missing family members and draw attention to Beijing’s mass-internment campaign.
> 
> In recent days, China’s Uighurs have posted dozens of videos that show them crying silently in front of family portraits. Such public expressions of grief have been rare in Xinjiang, where heavy censorship has prevented little aside from official propaganda from trickling out.
> 
> Posted on Douyin, the domestic Chinese version of TikTok, the videos’ ambiguity appears to have helped them slip past censors at first, but many have since been deleted. There is no indication of what happened to the people pictured in the family portraits.
> 
> The parent company of Douyin and TikTok, Beijing-based Bytedance Inc., didn’t respond to a request for comment. Bytedance is now one of the world’s most valuable startups, with an estimated $75 billion valuation.
> 
> Many of the accounts that had uploaded the videos listed Xinjiang as their location, including from the prefectures of Kashgar, Aksu and Kizilsu. While some of the accounts remained active on Wednesday, the vast majority had been deleted or disabled by Thursday. Of the accounts that remained active, other videos of their daily lives remain, but the videos with the pictures of family members in the background are no longer there.
> 
> Like other social-media platforms operating in China, Douyin is required by law to delete any content that expresses political dissent. Online users have become skilled at developing new methods to circumvent censorship—employing puns, symbols and, in this case, silent clips on social-media apps. Even so, censors are usually close behind.
> 
> China’s web regulators have closely policed popular social-media platforms like Weibo and WeChat. One of Bytedance’s popular news accounts was briefly shut down by authorities last year for vulgar content.
> 
> To accommodate the different audiences, Bytedance operates Douyin and TikTok separately. Unlike the heavily censored Douyin, users of the global app TikTok aren’t subject to Chinese censorship, though TikTok has come under attack in various countries for allowing sexually suggestive clips and videos promoting suicide to circulate widely.
> 
> The tearful videos challenge Beijing’s claims about Xinjiang. Western scholars estimate more than 1 million Turkic Uighurs and other Muslim minorities have been arbitrarily detained in Xinjiang in the past few years. Xinjiang officials say they aren’t kept in detention camps but in vocational schools, which rehabilitate extremists and petty criminals, and that students attend voluntarily.
> 
> Authorities said in July that a majority of those in the centers had returned home—a claim that hasn’t been independently verified. Shohrat Zakir, Xinjiang’s governor and No. 2 official, said at the time that more than 90% of those released had found jobs that they like, but he provided no evidence. Abduweli Ayup, a Norway-based linguist originally from Xinjiang, said the videos appear to be an effort by some Uighurs to refute the claims.
> 
> “I think this is the answer from the people,” said Mr. Ayup. “They say, ‘If they are 90%, then where are my brothers and sisters and relatives?’”
> 
> Much about conditions in Xinjiang remains unknown due to an official clampdown on information and restrictions on travel to the region. While some overseas Uighurs say family members have been released this year, others can’t confirm whether loved ones are alive or dead.
> 
> Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said Thursday that he hadn’t seen the Douyin videos but added that China sought to meet any reasonable demands from Chinese people living overseas. Xinjiang’s government didn’t immediately reply to a faxed request for comment.
> 
> Arslan Hidayat, a Uighur-Australian activist based in Turkey, is among a number of activists who have broadened the reach of the videos by sharing dozens on Facebook and Twitter. He said the silence in the videos and circumspect responses to questions in the comments sections reinforced the likelihood that those loved ones weren’t free.
> 
> “One posts, ‘When are we going to see our brothers?’ and another says, ‘Oh, stay strong, they’ll come out soon,’ ” Mr. Hidayat said.
> 
> In recent months, Beijing has intensified efforts to counter Western condemnation of the Xinjiang detentions, which U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has called “the stain of the century.” Beijing rallied 37 allies in July to sign a letter in support of China’s Xinjiang policies after the U.K., Japan and 20 other countries signed one calling on Beijing to end its repressive policies on Uighurs.
> 
> Halmurat Harri Uyghur, a Finland-based activist, said Xinjiang residents would have known they were risking government punishment by posting the videos to Douyin.
> 
> “If they are in the Uighur region, they are risking their lives to give testimonies,” he said.
> 
> Vanessa Frangville, a Chinese studies professor at Belgium’s Université Libre de Bruxelles, said the silent crying of the videos reflected the tightness of restrictions on Uighurs to prevent them from speaking freely about conditions in the region.
> 
> “They use body, eye or finger language that is still to be decoded,” she said.
> 
> —Shan Li contributed to this article.
> 
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/uighur...33?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/yyQyFRkQO6


How come Turkish government changed its tones on Xinjiang and didn't join the west to sign the open letter? what did Erdogan come to Beijing for ?

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## Hexciter

Qatar 'withdraws signature' from pro-China statement defending Uighur detentions
While welcoming the move, Uighurs question motives behind Qatar's decision to remove its name from letter defending 're-education' camps

By Areeb Ullah
Published date: 21 August 2019

Uighur activists welcomed Qatar's decision to remove its name from an open letter supporting China's imprisonment of Uighur Muslims in the Xinjiang province.

Correspondence seen by Bloomberg and revealed on Wednesday showed that Doha had requested the United Nations Human Rights Council withdraw Qatar's name from the July letter, days after it was announced at the UN. 

The messages quoted Ali Khalfan al-Mansouri, Qatar's permanent representative to the UN in Geneva, as stating that Doha intended to "maintain a neutral stance".

"Taking into account our focus on compromise and mediation, we believe that co-authorising the aforementioned letter would compromise key priorities," Mansouri said in the correspondence dated 18 July. 

The letter, signed by several Muslim-majority countries including Bahrain, Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Oman and the United Arab Emirates, was published on 12 July. 

Qatar did not respond to repeated requests for comment on why it had not gone public about its decision to withdraw its signature from the pro-China statement. 

Uighurs welcome Qatari move 

Despite welcoming Qatar's decision, Uighur activists questioned why the Gulf state had not gone public with it. 

"Surprised but glad that Qatar has made this important move. It is the right decision but I do not understand why they had not gone public sooner," Halmurat Harri, a Uighur activist who now lives in Finland, told Middle East Eye. 

"Now that they have gone public, they should use this opportunity to expose the hypocrisy of other countries like Saudi Arabia, who signed the statement and are seeking closer ties with China."

John Fisher from Human Rights Watch echoed Harri's sentiments and said it "spoke volumes" that countries like North Korea, Syria and Venezuela had endorsed the pro-China letter. 

"Many Muslim-majority states, including Qatar, have rightly declined to lend their voices in support of China’s mass detention and sweeping abuses directed against Uighurs and other Muslims in Xinjiang," Fisher told MEE. 

"We urge these states to speak out in support of an independent assessment by the High Commissioner for Human Rights so that the UN Human Rights Council can receive objective information and consider appropriate action.”

Questioning Qatar's motives 

China was Qatar’s third-largest trading partner in 2018, with some $13bn in total trade, according to Bloomberg. 

Revelations that Qatar had withdrawn its signature from the pro-China letter comes weeks after a Uighur was threatened with deportation to China from Doha airport. 

Earlier this month, Ablikim Yusuf was on the verge of being deported to China. Fearing for his life, Yusuf posted a video on Facebook urging people to help him.

Arslan Hidayat, a Uighur activist born in Australia and now based in Turkey, helped translate Yusuf's plea and put English-language subtitles on his video.

He praised Qatar for taking a stand against China but questioned the Gulf state's motivations behind removing its name from the letter. 

"It's very brave of Qatar to be the first Muslim country to withdraw its signature from the letter in support of the camps and I hope many others follow," Hidayat told MEE. 

"But it'll be interesting to see whether this is a genuine gesture from Qatar - i.e. are they doing this to boost their economy or to support their Muslim brothers?" 

China has defended its use of "re-education" camps to intern millions of Uighurs in the Xinjiang province, which is home to 22 million members of the Muslim minority. 

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/...l-chinas-letter-supporting-re-education-camps


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## beijingwalker

Hexciter said:


> Qatar 'withdraws signature' from pro-China statement defending Uighur detentions
> While welcoming the move, Uighurs question motives behind Qatar's decision to remove its name from letter defending 're-education' camps
> 
> By Areeb Ullah
> Published date: 21 August 2019
> 
> Uighur activists welcomed Qatar's decision to remove its name from an open letter supporting China's imprisonment of Uighur Muslims in the Xinjiang province.
> 
> Correspondence seen by Bloomberg and revealed on Wednesday showed that Doha had requested the United Nations Human Rights Council withdraw Qatar's name from the July letter, days after it was announced at the UN.
> 
> The messages quoted Ali Khalfan al-Mansouri, Qatar's permanent representative to the UN in Geneva, as stating that Doha intended to "maintain a neutral stance".
> 
> "Taking into account our focus on compromise and mediation, we believe that co-authorising the aforementioned letter would compromise key priorities," Mansouri said in the correspondence dated 18 July.
> 
> The letter, signed by several Muslim-majority countries including Bahrain, Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Oman and the United Arab Emirates, was published on 12 July.
> 
> Qatar did not respond to repeated requests for comment on why it had not gone public about its decision to withdraw its signature from the pro-China statement.
> 
> Uighurs welcome Qatari move
> 
> Despite welcoming Qatar's decision, Uighur activists questioned why the Gulf state had not gone public with it.
> 
> "Surprised but glad that Qatar has made this important move. It is the right decision but I do not understand why they had not gone public sooner," Halmurat Harri, a Uighur activist who now lives in Finland, told Middle East Eye.
> 
> "Now that they have gone public, they should use this opportunity to expose the hypocrisy of other countries like Saudi Arabia, who signed the statement and are seeking closer ties with China."
> 
> John Fisher from Human Rights Watch echoed Harri's sentiments and said it "spoke volumes" that countries like North Korea, Syria and Venezuela had endorsed the pro-China letter.
> 
> "Many Muslim-majority states, including Qatar, have rightly declined to lend their voices in support of China’s mass detention and sweeping abuses directed against Uighurs and other Muslims in Xinjiang," Fisher told MEE.
> 
> "We urge these states to speak out in support of an independent assessment by the High Commissioner for Human Rights so that the UN Human Rights Council can receive objective information and consider appropriate action.”
> 
> Questioning Qatar's motives
> 
> China was Qatar’s third-largest trading partner in 2018, with some $13bn in total trade, according to Bloomberg.
> 
> Revelations that Qatar had withdrawn its signature from the pro-China letter comes weeks after a Uighur was threatened with deportation to China from Doha airport.
> 
> Earlier this month, Ablikim Yusuf was on the verge of being deported to China. Fearing for his life, Yusuf posted a video on Facebook urging people to help him.
> 
> Arslan Hidayat, a Uighur activist born in Australia and now based in Turkey, helped translate Yusuf's plea and put English-language subtitles on his video.
> 
> He praised Qatar for taking a stand against China but questioned the Gulf state's motivations behind removing its name from the letter.
> 
> "It's very brave of Qatar to be the first Muslim country to withdraw its signature from the letter in support of the camps and I hope many others follow," Hidayat told MEE.
> 
> "But it'll be interesting to see whether this is a genuine gesture from Qatar - i.e. are they doing this to boost their economy or to support their Muslim brothers?"
> 
> China has defended its use of "re-education" camps to intern millions of Uighurs in the Xinjiang province, which is home to 22 million members of the Muslim minority.
> 
> https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/...l-chinas-letter-supporting-re-education-camps



*Turkey Got a $1 Billion Foreign Cash Boost From China in June*
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ion-from-china-swap-in-june-boost-to-reserves

Turkey knows not to bite the hand that feeds it.

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang Uighur twin sisters live stream their famiy life in a village in Xinjiang*

Live streaming is really popular in China, millions of people do this and many made big money out of it.
*




*

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## beijingwalker



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## Hexciter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165690797855051779

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1163373235800555520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165464819035791360

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## beijingwalker

Small towns and villages in Xinjiang are all set to embrace tourism, the fastest and easiest way to get rich.

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## beijingwalker

Hexciter said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165690797855051779
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1163373235800555520
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165464819035791360


If those were true, why your Turkey is trying so hard to befriend China now, your Erdogan just visited China and he didn't raise any concerns over Xinjiang during the trip.

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## Hexciter

beijingwalker said:


> If those were true, why your Turkey is trying so hard to befriend China now, your Erdogan just visited China and he didn't raise any concerns over Xinjiang during the trip.



Ask him


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## beijingwalker

Hexciter said:


> Ask him


If he doesn't say or do anything, what you are talking here means nothing other than an enterntainment for PDF.

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## vi-va

Hexciter said:


> Ask him


Are you Turks? What did Turks do to Armenian？Why Kurds are unhappy and fighting for independence from Turkey? 

China did Not harm Turkey, doesn't mean China is incapable of. 

Who are you working for? CIA? Your president praise Xinjiang just weeks ago, didn't you know that?

Don't work so hard, work life balance is important.

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## Beast

viva_zhao said:


> Are you Turks? What did Turks do to Armenian？Why Kurds are unhappy and fighting for independence from Turkey?
> 
> China did Not harm Turkey, doesn't mean China is incapable of.
> 
> Who are you working for? CIA? Your president praise Xinjiang just weeks ago, didn't you know that?
> 
> Don't work so hard, work life balance is important.


I don't know what's wrong with these few group of Turkish.Turkish oppress minority like kurds and Armenia but they still got the cheek to accuse China of oppression. These people live in their own world which they believe ottoman empire still exist. They believe they can oppress others but others can't oppress their kind. What a joke. Ask them to set example first before lecture others. If not , China just learn from these Turkish on how to deal with minority.

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## beijingwalker

Some part of Turkey is like a war zone. They also have troops fighting in Syria, a blatant violation of another country s sovereignty.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang small towns life is very lay back and easy, good for the locals, I m kind of dreaming of that kind of life.

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## beijingwalker

*Uighur girl streaming video: I have two mothers, my mother and my motherland China*
*




*

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## Mutakalim

Another example of idiocy and ignorant behaviour. She just wants to prove her loyalty to an oppressive regime.

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## beijingwalker

Mutakalim said:


> Another example of idiocy and ignorant behaviour. She just wants to prove her loyalty to an oppressive regime.


This "oppressive" regime is enjoying the best growth and development in the world, they work way way better than the so called "democratic" governments which true idiots more often than not are continuously being elected into the office.

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## Mutakalim

beijingwalker said:


> This "oppressive" regime is enjoying the best growth and development in the world, they work way way better than the so called "democratic" governments which true idiots more often than not are continuously being elected into the office.



Still, these regimes are oppressive. Growth and development has nothing to do with basic human freedoms, which these regimes are curbing. This will not go unnoticed, payback is due. You cant oppress a huge minority and then expect them to not return the favour.

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## beijingwalker

Mutakalim said:


> Still, these regimes are oppressive. Growth and development has nothing to do with basic human freedoms, which these regimes are curbing. This will not go unnoticed, payback is due. You cant oppress a huge minority and then expect them to not return the favour.


They live a better life than you, when you have big house, private cars, nice paying jobs, peaceful and stable livelihood, they don't feel much oppressed. when you live in a dirty slum without running water and electricity, all freedom means nothing to you.

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## beijingwalker

Englishman said:


> She was probably forced by *chinks*


Reported.

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## Mutakalim

beijingwalker said:


> They live a better life than you, when you have big house, private cars, nice paying jobs, peaceful and stable livelihood, they don't feel much oppressed. when you live in a dirty slum without running water and electricity, all freedom means nothing to you.


You dont know the meaning of freedom. Cant teach you that.

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## beijingwalker

Mutakalim said:


> You dont know the meaning of freedom. Cant teach you that.


I lived in US for quite some years and was robbed once in New York, if that's the freedom you mean.

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## War Thunder

Mutakalim said:


> You dont know the meaning of freedom. Cant teach you that.



If mental and cognitive slavery of the manipulative education and media is freedom, then well he is better off not knowing that tbh...

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## beijingwalker



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## fisher1

oprih said:


> Being casted in tv shows and gaining fans is human rights abuse according to dumb muricans, dropping bombs is the right way to go.



Nah, human rights abuse is separating these children from their parents who don't want their kids sexualised. 

Imagine if as a kid you were forcefully taken by your government and then brainwashed to whatever they wanted you to become. 

But Chinese don't know what human rights are so of course they can't understand it.

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## beijingwalker

War Thunder said:


> If mental and cognitive slavery of the manipulative education and media is freedom, then well he is better off not knowing that tbh...


Western freedom means freedom to lie, there are so many examples one can make a mountain out of them. I experienced that first hand in US.

They demonize China and depict China as the root of all evils, yet they also fear China because of her fast development, their stories and facts just can add up.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> They live a better life than you, when you have big house, private cars, nice paying jobs, peaceful and stable livelihood, they don't feel much oppressed. when you live in a dirty slum without running water and electricity, all freedom means nothing to you.



Funny story. My pet birds are really well-fed, they copulate like there's no tomorrow and take baths, pretty happy life and all a bird a could ask for. 

But the moment i leave the cage door open, they want to fly the hell away from the happy life to freedom. Freedom which entails working hard for food versus slavery with free food. 

Chinese should learn from birds. If such a small animal without much brain power feels sick in slavery, how can a human be happy?

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## Pakistani Fighter

beijingwalker said:


> *Uighur girl streaming video: I have two mothers, my mother and my motherland China
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Why are you ppl taking religion away from them?

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> Funny story. My pet birds are really well-fed, they copulate like there's no tomorrow and take baths, pretty happy life and all a bird a could ask for.
> 
> But the moment i leave the cage door open, they want to fly the hell away from the happy life to freedom. Freedom which entails working hard for food versus slavery with free food.
> 
> Chinese should learn from birds. If such a small animal without much brain power feels sick in slavery, how can a human be happy?


We Chinese know where we are going and where we stay, your advice is not needed, you can stay where you are and we stay where we are, we'll still work hard and develop till we reach the top, you guys can continune enjoy your wonderful "free" life.

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> Nah, human rights abuse is separating these children from their parents who don't want their kids sexualised.
> 
> Imagine if as a kid you were forcefully taken by your government and then brainwashed to whatever they wanted you to become.
> 
> But Chinese don't know what human rights are so of course they can't understand it.


You can claim whatever we Chinese are, evil beings, demons or even the devil himself, as a friendly country, we Chinese refrain from talk negatively about Pakistan, no country is perfect anyway.

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## Pakistani Fighter

beijingwalker said:


> You can claim whatever we Chinese are, evil beings, demons or even the devil himself, as a friendly country, we Chinese refrain from talk negatively about Pakistan, no country is perfect anyway.


Why dont you follow Russia example of its Muslim majority Chechnya?

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## beijingwalker

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Why dont you follow Russia example of its Muslim majority Chechnya?


By war? We never had a problem that bad, we have dozens of minority groups, their lives are all greatly improved, our people grow with China.

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## Pakistani Fighter

beijingwalker said:


> By war? We never had a problem that bad, we have dozens of minority groups, their lives are all greatly improved, our people grow with China.


No but why u are forcing children away from parents and taking religion away from them?


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## beijingwalker

Englishman said:


> Pakistanis please be wary of these snake / dog eaters
> 
> They are aggressively forward planning and you are just pawns that will be sacrificed when needed.


LOl, we are demons , and we scare you so much.



Mutakalim said:


> Still, these regimes are oppressive. Growth and development has nothing to do with basic human freedoms, which these regimes are curbing. This will not go unnoticed, payback is due. You cant oppress a huge minority and then expect them to not return the favour.


When your country is in trouble , very often this "oppressive regine"very often is the only country comes for help, militarily, financially and politically.

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## beijingwalker

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> No but why u are forcing children away from parents and taking religion away from them?


We never did, if you believe those anti China propaganda, it seems like we are doing the worst possible acts that one can ever think of, we are not stupid people , but those who just bought whatever media tells them are.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> If those were true, why your Turkey is trying so hard to befriend China now, your Erdogan just visited China and he didn't raise any concerns over Xinjiang during the trip.



Same reason Imran Khan sheepishly feigned ignorance when asked about it. 

Because China is throwing money at countries, giving debts and what that entails is shutting up your mouth. 

Doesn't mean can hide the oppression. Erdogan did his job by speaking against it and raising awareness. Now he's gonna use Chinese money to help his country.

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> Same reason Imran Khan sheepishly feigned ignorance when asked about it.
> 
> Because China is throwing money at countries, giving debts and what that entails is shutting up your mouth.
> 
> Doesn't mean can hide the oppression. Erdogan did his job by speaking against it and raising awareness. Now he's gonna use Chinese money to help his country.


Ok, good that he didn't join the west to sign that letter, a wise move.

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## AfrazulMandal

beijingwalker said:


> *Uighur girl streaming video: I have two mothers, my mother and my motherland China
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Now Hindus will copy this and soon we will see a Kashmiri girl doing something similar.

Islamophobic oppressors, India, China - you have blood on your hands.


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## beijingwalker

AfrazulMandal said:


> Now Hindus will copy this and soon we will see a Kashmiri girl doing something similar.
> 
> Islamophobic oppressors, India, China - you have blood on your hands.


They can't copy to make Kashmir peace and prosperous, Xinjinag's GDP growth is double digit, highest in China, the government provides almost everything free for the people there, now every household owns cars. I doubt India can copy that anywhere in India.

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## Indos

beijingwalker said:


> By war? We never had a problem that bad, we have dozens of minority groups, their lives are all greatly improved, our people grow with China.



You need to read Chechen story after the war, Islam culture is wide spread and supported by the government, they also supportive to Islamic early education, unlike in China where kid cannot be taught Islam before they reach 18 years old. The video is in Indonesian language but you still can learn something here.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> You can claim whatever we Chinese are, evil beings, demons or even the devil himself, as a friendly country, we Chinese refrain from talk negatively about Pakistan, no country is perfect anyway.



Chinese Nazis. 

Compared to China, many countries are perfect as far as these atrocities are concerned. Not even India or Israel are doing what China is doing. 

What are you going to talk negative about Pakistan? We aren't abducting Hindus, Sikhs, Christians children and putting their families in concentration camps and forcing them to become Muslim. Neither do we have surveillance and forcing them to drink alcohol, eat pig or cows, or razing their temples. We maybe poor but Pakistan is a great country for any minority.


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## beijingwalker

Indos said:


> You need to read Chechen story after the war, Islam culture is wide spread and supported by the government, they also supportive to Islamic early education, unlike in China where kid cannot be taught Islam before they reach 18 years old. The video is in Indonesian language but you still can learn something here.


Chechenya had a civil war, that's not something we like to emulate, we care more about development and people's well being, not one, not even US, can tell us what we should do.



DeadSparrow said:


> What are you going to talk negative about Pakistan? We aren't abducting Hindus, Sikhs, Christians children and putting their families in concentration camps and forcing them to become Muslim. Neither do we have surveillance and forcing them to drink alcohol, eat pig or cows, or razing their temples. We maybe poor but Pakistan is a great country for any minority.


You don't have to convince me, we are together in their eyes.
*China and Pakistan slammed for violation of human rights at UN meet*
https://english.khabarhub.com/2019/24/40267/

*US, UK, Canada slam China, Pakistan for persecuting minorities*
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...rsecuting-minorities/articleshow/70798877.cms

When the west is attacking both China and Pakistan, do you choose to counter attack and reveal their lies or joining the west to attack China together, it's your own choice, but they won't relent on you even if you do join them. Hiistory should have taught you many lessons.

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## Mutakalim

beijingwalker said:


> When your country is in trouble , very often this "oppressive regine"very often is the only country comes for help, militarily, financially and politically.


This is a mutual relationship, which has benefits for both countries. You are helping us because this help serve your own interests. No need to get emotional, this is the Real Politic.


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## War Thunder

Englishman said:


> Pakistanis please be wary of these snake / dog eaters
> 
> They are aggressively forward planning and you are just pawns that will be sacrificed when needed.



And what is an indian attempting in trying to guise himself?

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## Mutakalim

War Thunder said:


> If mental and cognitive slavery of the manipulative education and media is freedom, then well he is better off not knowing that tbh...


Exactly, he is effected by mental and cognitive slavery and the power behind it is Chinese regime.


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## masterchief_mirza

Englishman said:


> She was probably forced by chinks


Aww. You must be annoyed cos Boris and the queen just nuked democracy in Britain.



DeadSparrow said:


> Funny story. My pet birds are really well-fed, they copulate like there's no tomorrow and take baths, pretty happy life and all a bird a could ask for.
> 
> But the moment i leave the cage door open, they want to fly the hell away from the happy life to freedom. Freedom which entails working hard for food versus slavery with free food.
> 
> Chinese should learn from birds. If such a small animal without much brain power feels sick in slavery, how can a human be happy?


Except that you're not really free at all. Every course of action you take is directed and manipulated. You just don't know it. We all live under dictatorships - just some of us recognize it, some pretend otherwise.

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## beijingwalker

Mutakalim said:


> This is a mutual relationship, which has benefits for both countries. You are helping us because this help serve your own interests. No need to get emotional, this is the Real Politic.


Of course, but by calling us a oppressive regime certainly won't help this mutual relationship, China doesn't call you bad names, even we help each other, China is not in a dire position having to face an arch enemy with the full intention of wiping us out.

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## masterchief_mirza

Even in the concealed dictatorships of the west, every once in a while, they still take an "executive decision" e.g. in UK today, trampling openly over your daydreams of democracy, yet people still think they're "free". Hilarious really.

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## Mutakalim

beijingwalker said:


> Of course, but by calling us a oppressive regime certainly won't help this mutual relationship, China doesn't call you bad names, even we help each other, China is not in a dire position having to face an arch enemy with the full intention of wiping us out.




It is my personal opinion and every man has the right to keep and express opinions. China and Pakistan are strategic partners and this partnership is based on mutual interests. State of Pakistan has not declared Chinese regime as oppressive, so my opinion dont matter much.


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## beijingwalker

Mutakalim said:


> It is my personal opinion and every man has the right to keep and express opinions. China and Pakistan are strategic partners and this partnership is based on mutual interests. State of Pakistan has not declared Chinese regime as oppressive, so my opinion dont matter much.


You should think about why only China came to Pakistan's defence over Kashmir, where are all your Muslim brothers? surely we have mutual relationship, but don't tell me you have only one friend. When China needs support, over dozens of Muslim countries stated their support over Xinjiang, so your personal opinion indeed doesn't matter anything.

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## denel

DeadSparrow said:


> Same reason Imran Khan sheepishly feigned ignorance when asked about it.
> 
> Because China is throwing money at countries, giving debts and what that entails is shutting up your mouth.
> 
> Doesn't mean can hide the oppression. Erdogan did his job by speaking against it and raising awareness. Now he's gonna use Chinese money to help his country.


That is exactly it; people are keeping quiet as chinese money is talking. They are buying people's conscience.
We must speak up and let people know this crisis is happening.

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## masterchief_mirza

beijingwalker said:


> Of course, but by calling us a oppressive regime certainly won't help this mutual relationship, China doesn't call you bad names, even we help each other, China is not in a dire position having to face an arch enemy with the full intention of wiping us out.


A very rational and common sense approach. Mercifully, the overwhelming silent majority of Pakistanis do not fall for the "freedom of expression" rhetoric that emanates from the western based propaganda outlets. I think any measured and sensible individual would be at peace with the reality that ALL our lives are "directed" to various extents. I have no problem with a "benevolent dictatorship". China shouldn't be embarrassed by stating this reality. Far better than the corrupt and hypocritical"democracies" we have to tolerate in the west.

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## beijingwalker

denel said:


> That is exactly it; people are keeping quiet as chinese money is talking. They are buying people's conscience.
> We must speak up and let people know this crisis is happening.


A crisis made by the western media, you're too late to speak up course they've already did and are still doing it by the day, this crisis is well known all around the world except for Xinjiang itself.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang Kashgar flashmob: I and my motherland

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## Pakhtoon yum

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang Kashgar flashmob: I and my motherland


You've been absent from all those other threads that you are quoted to, why would that be propaganda robot.


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## beijingwalker

Pakhtoon yum said:


> You've been absent from all those other threads that you are quoted to, why would that be propaganda robot.


I'll keep it up.

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## Numerous

beijingwalker said:


> Of course, but by calling us a oppressive regime certainly won't help this mutual relationship, China doesn't call you bad names, even we help each other, China is not in a dire position having to face an arch enemy with the full intention of wiping us out.



Instead China jails the uighur wives of pakistanis instead because of their relationship to a Muslim country like Pakistan. So much respect shown!


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## obj 705A

beijingwalker said:


> *Uighur child star Barna Enwer, 拜爾娜, popular in many Chinese shows and dramas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Beautiful girl , god bless her parents for such good upbringing they are lucky to have her , by Asian standards she is liberal , hopefully she will maintain her principles & become a role model for all Chinese Muslim women.

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## phancong

Mutakalim said:


> This is a mutual relationship, which has benefits for both countries. You are helping us because this help serve your own interests. No need to get emotional, this is the Real Politic.


Reply China is the 1st country your head of state shamelessly called to help your people with Kashmir issue in the UN.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> A crisis made by the western media, you're too late to speak up course they've already did and are still doing it by the day, this crisis is well known all around the world except for Xinjiang itself.



Come on, how long are you going to keep up this charade? 

Nobody in this forum believes ccp propaganda. The Chinese have also been very clear. They consider Islam a mental sickness. A bunch of ccp trolls also come here from time to time bashing Muslims and calling all Uighurs terrorists. Some Chinese like a month ago said Hijab is banned because it leads to terrorist tendencies. 

China isn't fooling anyone. For Uighurs, being Muslims and following Islam is terrorism. China wants to create a docile Godless society in Xinjiang whose idol will be Xi Jinping. 

Do you think anyone believes the North Korean propaganda when they've shut off the country from the whole world to hide their oppressive government and spread propaganda videos instead to see all is good? That's not how normal countries act. 

Journalists aren't allowed in Xinjiang, recording and talking to people isn't allowed, interviews aren't allowed yet ccp has the audacity to lie straight to our face.


----------



## fisher1

masterchief_mirza said:


> Except that you're not really free at all. Every course of action you take is directed and manipulated. You just don't know it. We all live under dictatorships - just some of us recognize it, some pretend otherwise.



No i am pretty free. I can go to the mosque which gives loud Azaan 5 times a day and is jam packed. I don't eat pork and don't drink alcohol and nobody can force me to. I can fast without anyone forcing me to eat. I can roam the streets and record videos of any place i like even army containment areas if i am being nice, i can strike up a conversation with anyone.

Sounds pretty free to me. The same can't be said for Uighurs, they can't do any of those things.

My actions are free. In fact, i write such harsh statements against my government, if i was under a dictatorship like China, my guts would be fed to dogs now or my organs harvested or maybe put in a concentration camp or whatever the sick Chinese like to do to people who criticise them.

PS: I see you're still here helping the communist brothers. Thought the Pro-oppression crowd would thin out during the month break i had, i guess not.


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## Numerous

DeadSparrow said:


> China isn't fooling anyone.



I wish that sentence were true. However progress is being made alhamdulillah, more and more pakistanis are 
realising that China is indeed oppressing Muslims.


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## Pakhtoon yum

beijingwalker said:


> I'll keep it up.


Whens your trip?


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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> No i am pretty free. I can go to the mosque which gives loud Azaan 5 times a day and is jam packed. I don't eat pork and don't drink alcohol and nobody can force me to. I can fast without anyone forcing me to eat. I can roam the streets and record videos of any place i like even army containment areas if i am being nice, i can strike up a conversation with anyone.
> 
> Sounds pretty free to me. The same can't be said for Uighurs, they can't do any of those things.
> 
> My actions are free. In fact, i write such harsh statements against my government, if i was under a dictatorship like China, my guts would be fed to dogs now or my organs harvested or maybe put in a concentration camp or whatever the sick Chinese like to do to people who criticise them.
> 
> PS: I see you're still here helping the communist brothers. Thought the Pro-oppression crowd would thin out during the month break i had, i guess not.


Lol, you can keep claiming anything, you guys gang up on China but it seems there's nothing you can do, we noticed that there are bunch of you in Pakistan who are etremely against China and think China is hell on earth, that's actually good, let you show your true color and China won't be taken by surprise in the future if the sht hit the fan.

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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> I wish that sentence were true. However progress is being made alhamdulillah, more and more pakistanis are
> realising that China is indeed oppressing Muslims.


You can ask your government to cut ties with China if you all believe so.

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## beijingwalker

obj 705A said:


> Beautiful girl , god bless her parents for such good upbringing they are lucky to have her , by Asian standards she is liberal , hopefully she will maintain her principles & become a role model for all Chinese Muslim women.


Role models already existed, Dilraba Dilmurat, the most famous actress in China, claimed all three top actress awards all by herself, an unprecedented feat by any Chinese actresses ever. A role model that every Chinese girl admires and follows.

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## Zsari

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Why are you ppl taking religion away from them?



Why do you assume she wants to be indoctrinated by any organized religion?

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## kankan326

DeadSparrow said:


> Chinese Nazis.
> 
> Compared to China, many countries are perfect as far as these atrocities are concerned. Not even India or Israel are doing what China is doing.
> 
> What are you going to talk negative about Pakistan? We aren't abducting Hindus, Sikhs, Christians children and putting their families in concentration camps and forcing them to become Muslim. Neither do we have surveillance and forcing them to drink alcohol, eat pig or cows, or razing their temples. We maybe poor but Pakistan is a great country for any minority.


Still remember Taliban forced other religion believers to convert to Islam? And Pakistan was the biggest supporter of Taliban.

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## beijingwalker

Religious freedom means people can choose to or not to believe any religions. Religions should not been hireditary, they should be a choice which people choose to believe or not when they reach adulthood. I have many friends converted to Christianity in their 20's and 30's and became serious Christian practitioners, I don't agree with them but it's their own choice anyway. People choose what they like to believe, no one can stop them, it's kind of worrisome that the number of Christians around me increase by leaps and bounds in Beijing.

*China on course to become 'world's most Christian nation' by 2030's*
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/2017/may/china-could-become-the-biggest-christian-nation-by-2030s

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## Char

Indos said:


> You need to read Chechen story after the war, Islam culture is wide spread and supported by the government, they also supportive to Islamic early education, unlike in China where kid cannot be taught Islam before they reach 18 years old. The video is in Indonesian language but you still can learn something here.



how Russia or America treat Muslim has nothing to do with China, Indonesia killed millions of Chinese in the history we have not revenged for that but we keep in mind.

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## Mutakalim

phancong said:


> Reply China is the 1st country your head of state shamelessly called to help your people with Kashmir issue in the UN.


A citizen of the world most powerful terrorist state is accusing others of shame.


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang celebrates 70th anniversary of the people's republic of China
*
People in Xinjiang province celebrate the coming Chinese national day, 70th anniversary of the people's republic of China

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## Arsalan

@beijingwalker you yourself started this thread titled "
ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please."

Yet i have just merged three other threads by you on same topic, each with a video in opening post and two to five post long threads to this.

Going forward, as suggested by @waz as well, please post ANY THING related to this topic in this thread alone and do not start any new threads for this topic. Any new threads wont be merged but will be deleted and warnings will be served.

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## beijingwalker

Arsalan said:


> @beijingwalker you yourself started this thread titled "


Actually I didn't, I don't know who did it.

If so I hope those anti China threads over Xinjiang can also be merged into this thread, not just mine.

something like those
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/nightmare-as-egypt-aids-china-detain-uighurs.631990/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/why-...heir-back-on-chinas-repressed-uighurs.631248/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/musl...ps-say-former-detainees.631158/#post-11698491

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## obj 705A

What @Arsalan said is true , we already have a Xinjiang thread , all negative & positive news should be shared on it.

@beijingwalker posting separate threads here would only help make it more frequent for China haters to do the same , it is best to post everything in the dedicated Xinjiang thread.


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## beijingwalker

obj 705A said:


> What @Arsalan said is true , we already have a Xinjiang thread ,* all negative & positive news should be shared on it*.


That would be fine, but not just my posts.

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## Arsalan

beijingwalker said:


> Actually I didn't, I don't know who did it.
> 
> If so I hope those anti China threads over Xinjiang can also be merged into this thread, not just mine.
> 
> something like those
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/nightmare-as-egypt-aids-china-detain-uighurs.631990/
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/why-...heir-back-on-chinas-repressed-uighurs.631248/
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/musl...ps-say-former-detainees.631158/#post-11698491


Done.
However if it is a news a new thread makes sense. To be honest, girl sharing tik tok videos is NOT a news and do not deserves a new thread. So please do not start any new ones on this same topic for every little non-issue you come across.


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## fisher1

Zsari said:


> Why do you assume she wants to be indoctrinated by any organized religion?



So then why is the CCP forcing her to be indoctrinated to the communism religion? And forced to believe in an idol (China and the head of ccp) above her own choices.

Her mother has made the choice of a religion for her and she damn well deserves to make that decision. Until she reaches adulthood and will decide for herself.



beijingwalker said:


> Lol, you can keep claiming anything, you guys gang up on China but it seems there's nothing you can do, we noticed that there are bunch of you in Pakistan who are etremely against China and think China is hell on earth, that's actually good, let you show your true color and China won't be taken by surprise in the future if the sht hit the fan.



Stop oppressing our Muslim brothers and sisters and Pakistan and China will have pretty great relationship. 

Why do you think Pakistanis hate India and Israel? Because they're oppressing Muslims.


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## Indos

Char said:


> how Russia or America treat Muslim has nothing to do with China, Indonesia killed millions of Chinese in the history we have not revenged for that but we keep in mind.



I was in Jakarta in 1998 and went to the street to calm the situation, I dont see any Chinese massacre. There is also an investigation on Mei 1998 event but there is no Chinese death due to massacre. 1998 Mei victim are mostly native. And in 1965 event it was a communist massacre and native are the most victim.

Those accusation to us is made by Westerners so if Westerners made a story about China about Xin Jiang it will be all lies and if they made story about Mei 1998 event in Jakarta and 1965 communist massacre it will be all true according to you ?


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## Char

Indos said:


> I was in Jakarta in 1998 and went to the street to calm the situation, I dont see any Chinese massacre. There is also an investigation on Mei 1998 event but there is no Chinese death due to massacre. 1998 Mei victim are mostly native. And in 1965 event it was a communist massacre and native are the most victim.
> 
> Those accusation to us is made by Westerners so if Westerners made a story about China about Xin Jiang it will be all lies and if they made story about Mei 1998 event in Jakarta and 1965 communist massacre it will be all true according to you ?



There's no accurate toll, but you cant deny massacre.

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## Indos

Char said:


> There's no accurate toll, but you cant deny massacre.



Nope, 1965 is Communist massacre and most of the victim are native, it is not mean to massacre people based on ethnic but more on political view, similar like your civil war in the past, while in Mei 1998, based on fair investigation conducted after democracy has come to Indonesia, there is no single Chinese death due to massacre, the 200 victim are mostly native who are death due to fire.

But I have to admit there are many Chinese Indoesian businesses are vandalized and burn during Mei 1998 riot. You can ask all of Chinese Indonesian member here whether there is their family or relative or friend who are death due to 1998 Mei riot. I believe you cannot find any single death victim.


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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> Stop oppressing our Muslim brothers and sisters and Pakistan and China will have pretty great relationship.
> 
> Why do you think Pakistanis hate India and Israel? Because they're oppressing Muslims.



We treat all religions the same, and kindly remind you that China doesn't live to please Pakistan.

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## Zsari

DeadSparrow said:


> So then why is the CCP forcing her to be indoctrinated to the communism religion? And forced to believe in an idol (China and the head of ccp) above her own choices.
> 
> Her mother has made the choice of a religion for her and she damn well deserves to make that decision. Until she reaches adulthood and will decide for herself.



Did she advocate communism in any of her video? You are making the choice for her, or you assume her parents made the choice for her? Rather, before she reaches adulthood, she should be free from any religious indoctrination. That's not oppression, but freedom.

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## Indos

Zsari said:


> Did she advocate communism in any of her video? You are making the choice for her, or you assume her parents made the choice for her? Rather, before she reaches adulthood, she should be free from any religious indoctrination. That's not oppression, but freedom.



And that regulation plus cultural revolution has made 52.2 percent of Chinese dont have any religion (according to recent census 2010).


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## fisher1

Zsari said:


> Did she advocate communism in any of her video? You are making the choice for her, or you assume her parents made the choice for her? Rather, before she reaches adulthood, she should be free from any religious indoctrination. That's not oppression, but freedom.



The choice is either CCP indoctrination or her mother's indoctrination. I will take the choice of her mother because unlike CCP, her mother doesn't want her as a slave.

Also the fact that CCP didn't raise her in their womb for 9 months acting like a parasite and creating health problems but her mother did.

Then again, i am talking about the rights and glory of a mother to communists. This has to be some sort of a joke i think


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## Zsari

Indos said:


> And that regulation plus cultural revolution has made 52.2 percent of Chinese dont have any religion (according to recent census 2010).



Religion was never a major part of life in China, that majority of Chinese don't have any religious affiliation with or without the cultural revolution. Just look at HK which didn't went through the cultural revolution, majority of the population are still either atheist or agnostic.



DeadSparrow said:


> The choice is either CCP indoctrination or her mother's indoctrination. I will take the choice of her mother because unlike CCP, her mother doesn't want her as a slave.
> 
> Also the fact that CCP didn't raise her in their womb for 9 months acting like a parasite and creating health problems but her mother did.
> 
> Then again, i am talking about the rights and glory of a mother to communists. This has to be some sort of a joke i think



Again, what makes you assume her mother wanted to indoctrinate her in the first place? And somehow if her mother didn't indoctrinate her, she will be indoctrinated by the party? I seen none of that in the video, as she neither promoted any religion nor communism, but rather enjoy life as a free individual.

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## oprih

Thanks to China, Xinjiang province will always be peaceful and free from terrorism unlike turkey and its allies.

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## oprih

Beautiful to see the Chinese people united!  A certain terrorist-exporting country west of China won't be happy seeing this video though.

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## masterchief_mirza

A splendid fusion of traditional and regional arts with pride for the motherland.

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## fisher1

Zsari said:


> Again, what makes you assume her mother wanted to indoctrinate her in the first place? And somehow if her mother didn't indoctrinate her, she will be indoctrinated by the party? I seen none of that in the video, as she neither promoted any religion nor communism, but rather enjoy life as a free individual.



True. But her chances of being indoctrinated by CCP are a 100% since she's a Uighur.

I haven't seen a single CCP propaganda video showing a Muslim man or girl praying or doing or wearing anything religious.

Pretty hilarious that even their propaganda videos show exactly what they're being accused of ie forcing people to dance like maniacs and stay a billion miles away from religion.


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## beijingwalker

*A taste of Xinjiang at Kashgar's night market*





A decade ago, a market was a place that people try to avoid due to multiple bomb attacks, hundreds of people were killed and maimed. Thanks to the government policy over Xinjiaing in recent years, today's Xinjiang is safe, peaceful, stable and prosperous with booming tourism.

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## beijingwalker

The first male singer in OP video is 尼格买提·热合曼（维吾尔文：نېغمەت راخمان‎，拉丁维文：Nëghmet Raxman，the No.1 CCTV presenter, the single biggest hit in China, Chinese New Year spectacular was hosted by him.

The girl in the video below is Dilraba Dilmurat, the biggest movie star in China, won all top 3 Chinese best actress awards all by herself, unprecedented in the history, She ranks 16th in Forbes China Celebrity 100 list in 2019.

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## fisher1

*Missing Uyghur Surgeon Believed Held in Xinjiang Internment Camp*

A respected Uyghur physician who went missing in northwest China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR) nearly two years ago after being arrested by police is believed to have been detained in an internment camp, according to sources. 

Sayit Haji Qasim, the 47-year-old head surgeon at the Urology department of the Kashgar Regional No. 2 Hospital, was taken into custody from his home in the XUAR’s Kashgar (in Chinese, Kashi) prefecture on Sept. 4, 2017—the evening marking the end of the four-day Islamic holiday of Eid al-Adha—sources told RFA’s Uyghur Service.

“His family had no idea why he was arrested and made to disappear,” one source who claims to be acquainted with Qasim said of his elderly parents, wife, and two young children. “They learned later from the police the reason of his arrest was because he had stayed in a hotel where a suspect stayed on the same night. My guess is that he might have stayed at the hotel after finishing work late at night in a local town hospital where he had been operating,” the source added, speaking on condition of anonymity. 


Chinese authorities are believed to have held more than 1.5 million Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities accused of harboring “strong religious views” and “politically incorrect” ideas in a vast network of internment camps throughout the XUAR since April 2017. 

*While Beijing initially denied the existence of the camps, China this year changed tack and began describing the facilities as “boarding schools”* that provide vocational training for Uyghurs, discourage radicalization, and help protect the country from terrorism.

Respected surgeon

Prior to his arrest, Qasim—who joined the Urology department in Kashgar No. 2 Hospital in 1996 and was appointed lead surgeon in 2004—had become well known for his expertise throughout the southern XUAR after he spent a year in Beijing studying the latest non-invasive methods to remove urinary tract stones.

According to the source, Qasim was in *such high demand that he “worked non-stop” and, between 2015 and 2017, “conducted 80 percent of operations [at the Urology department], despite there being more than 10 surgeons.” He was regularly invited to hospitals in regional townships to lead surgeries there, *the source added. 

A second source, who also claimed to know Qasim, told RFA that police had informed the surgeon’s family he could be released if the Kashgar Regional No. 2 Hospital would write a letter to the authorities vouching for him and agreeing to act as his guarantor. 

“Unfortunately, the hospital declined the family's request,” said the source, who also declined to be named.

“I was very surprised when I heard this … I guess that if the *directors are Uyghur, they don't dare to support victims, as they fear for their own jobs and safety.” 
*
The website of the Kashgar Regional No. 2 Hospital no longer lists Qasim among its medical staff, and an initial call to the facility was answered by a staff member who said that no one by that name worked there. 

A second call to the hospital was answered by a staff member who told RFA that Qasim was “on break,” but hung up the phone when asked where he was and when he might return. 

RFA called the hospital a third time and spoke with a staff member who said that he had “heard that [Qasim] is receiving education,” and that he hadn’t seen him since he left the hospital. The staff member said he was unsure of when Qasim was first detained or when he might return to work, and suggested that further questions be asked in person to hospital supervisors or Qasim’s family. 

*‘Stain of the century’*

Qasim is one of many Uyghur professionals and intellectuals who have been identified as detainees in XUAR internment camps, and who defy claims by authorities that those held in the facilities are in need of “vocational training.” 

Mass incarcerations in the XUAR, as well as other policies seen to violate the rights of Uyghurs and other Muslims, have led to increasing calls by the international community to hold Beijing accountable for its actions in the region. 

Last month, at the Ministerial to Advance Religious Freedom in Washington, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo called the internment camps in the XUAR “one of the worst human rights crises of our time” and “truly the stain of the century.”


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## fisher1

oprih said:


> Beautiful to see the Chinese people united!  A certain terrorist-exporting country west of China won't be happy seeing this video though.



The biggest terrorist is China itself not Pakistan. You should ask the Uighers, they feel so terrorised that they've given up their beliefs from the terror.

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> The choice is either CCP indoctrination or her mother's indoctrination. I will take the choice of her mother because unlike CCP, her mother doesn't want her as a slave.
> 
> Also the fact that CCP didn't raise her in their womb for 9 months acting like a parasite and creating health problems but her mother did.
> 
> Then again, i am talking about the rights and glory of a mother to communists. This has to be some sort of a joke i think



That's what most mothers teach their kids in Xinjiang.






*Mom " Chilian, playing music?... What song are you playing?"
Daughter "Wonderful Motherland".
Mom " Do you think the motherland is really wonderful"?
Daughter "Top notch"*

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## beijingwalker

*China to mark 70th anniversary of PRC founding with parade on October 1*

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## masterchief_mirza

DeadSparrow said:


> The biggest terrorist is China itself not Pakistan. You should ask the Uighers, they feel so terrorised that they've given up their beliefs from the terror.


Nice try. He wasn't even talking about Pakistan. Chinese forum members don't call Pakistan such names. You could learn from that.

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## fisher1

masterchief_mirza said:


> Nice try. He wasn't even talking about Pakistan. Chinese forum members don't call Pakistan such names. You could learn from that.



You can't read minds and west of China is Pakistan so he could very well be referring to Pakistan since he couldn't mention the name.

But since you claim to read minds, which country is he referring to that's exporter of terrorists and is mourning China's celebration?


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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> You can't read minds and west of China is Pakistan so he could very well be referring to Pakistan since he couldn't mention the name.
> 
> But since you claim to read minds, which country is he referring to that's exporter of terrorists and is mourning China's celebration?



West of China. Why you can think of Pakistan among so many countires ? And he is not Chinese.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> West of China. Why you can think of Pakistan among so many countires ? And he is not Chinese.



Which country is he referring to?


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## Numerous

DeadSparrow said:


> Which country is he referring to?



Probably Pakistan. Pakistan is west of pretty much most of "China" and people regularly use slander against us and call us terrorist exporters. I think the filipino guy is doing the same thing here.

He could mean Turkey maybe I guess? Since parts of their population care about uighurs too.


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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> Probably Pakistan. Pakistan is west of pretty much most of "China"


I don't know which he refers to, but kazakhstan is pretty much most of China to the west, you better brush up on your geography.

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## Numerous

masterchief_mirza said:


> Nice try. He wasn't even talking about Pakistan. Chinese forum members don't call Pakistan such names. You could learn from that.



Seen some of them use other words against us on this forum though. 

Doesn't really matter if they don't use names anyway. Their government jails uighur women who married pakistanis simply for their association with our country, kinda obvious how the Chinese see us (even if they need us for cpec). That's a far worse insult.

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## Dual Wielder

Well edited, should show behind the scenes.

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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> Seen some of them use other words against us on this forum though.
> 
> Doesn't really matter if they don't use names anyway. Their government jails uighur women who married pakistanis simply for their association with our country, kinda obvious how the Chinese see us (even if they need us for cpec). That's a far worse insult.


CPEC is in Pakistan , you are a sovreign country, you can always back out if you are not interested, China risked tremendously to invest in disputed land rebel infested ands, that may cause potential future international implications, it's also a highly controversial project in China, China should have better choices.

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## Char

DeadSparrow said:


> The biggest terrorist is China itself not Pakistan. You should ask the Uighers, they feel so terrorised that they've given up their beliefs from the terror.



You don't know the fact that most Uighurs are against opening the port between China and Pakistan.

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## Numerous

beijingwalker said:


> CPEC is in Pakistan , you are a sovreign country, you can always back out if you are not interested, China risked tremendously to invest in disputed land rebel infested ands, that may cause potential future international implications, it's also a highly controversial project in China, China should have better choices.



Don't risk if you can't handle it.


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## beijingwalker

Numerous said:


> Don't risk if you can't handle it.


We are realizing that, it's been scaling down.



beijingwalker said:


> *China to mark 70th anniversary of PRC founding with parade on October 1*



Love it, it's going to be a big one this year, China can do the best army marching in the world

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## Beast

DeadSparrow said:


> The biggest terrorist is China itself not Pakistan. You should ask the Uighers, they feel so terrorised that they've given up their beliefs from the terror.


Lol.. you sounds like some paid American bot. Ask Pakistan not to accept China inquiry for Kashmir on their behalf and cease all military project collaboration , end CPEC project and return all the loan money. Since you are so bravado, are you?

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## beijingwalker

This year's military parade will be unprecedented I guess

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## beijingwalker

*Kyrgyz people in Chinese Pamir celebrate Chinese 70th National Day





*

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## masterchief_mirza

The anti- China sentiment is bizarre and sadly indicates the level of indoctrination by western media. I've seen near daily five minute special reports about poor innocent rich Hong Kong dissidents funded by megachurches in USA being baton rushed by police simply trying to maintain order and remind these dissidents that they live in a country that actually improves their lives. A solitary bullet fired into the air by a policeman trying to clear the area has been analysed to forensic levels on mainstream western websites. Meanwhile the RAPE, MASS PELLET ATTACKS, CLUSTER BOMBS AND MEDIEVAL TORTURE of Kashmiris/Pakistanis is roundly ignored while india is constantly patted on the back for just existing and dancing.

It's high bloody time all Pakistanis wake up and realise there can be zero peace or sympathy from extremist Hindus, extremist xtians or extremist Zionists. The only ones we can live in peace with are communists or true neutral atheists, who are balanced and treat all religions equally, or moderate religious states but the problem there is that the deep western states retain the crusader mentality of allenby and mountbatten, seeking to permanently destroy any fair and reasonable ascent of Muslim nation states to a point where our fair and reasonable global interests can be protected I.e. al Aqsa, hijaz. 

Any other superpower will support extreme Zionism blindly. China will at least be fair and balanced, and may even favour Muslims. China will crush extremists of all religions. I see no problem with that. Pakistan is actually the same. Our problem remains extremist Hindutva, which has piggybacked onto Christian fundamentalism and extreme zionism. The three are blurred into each other. Indeed, ideologies like Daesh or al Qaeda even feed into this unholy triumvirate and further damage the legitimate interests of moderate Muslim nation states. When you take a deep breath and actually consider Pakistani interests, be they religious or otherwise, China is our natural regional ally in helping achieve those goals, and as such is our rightful iron brother.

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## beijingwalker

masterchief_mirza said:


> The anti- China sentiment is bizarre and sadly indicates the level of indoctrination by western media. I've seen near daily five minute special reports about poor innocent rich Hong Kong dissidents funded by megachurches in USA being baton rushed by police simply trying to maintain order and remind these dissidents that they live in a country that actually improves their lives. A solitary bullet fired into the air by a policeman trying to clear the area has been analysed to forensic levels on mainstream western websites. Meanwhile the RAPE, MASS PELLET ATTACKS, CLUSTER BOMBS AND MEDIEVAL TORTURE of Kashmiris/Pakistanis is roundly ignored while india is constantly patted on the back for just existing and dancing.
> 
> It's high bloody time all Pakistanis wake up and realise there can be zero peace or sympathy from extremist Hindus, extremist xtians or extremist Zionists. The only ones we can live in peace with are communists or true neutral atheists, who are balanced and treat all religions equally, or moderate religious states but the problem there is that the deep western states retain the crusader mentality of allenby and mountbatten, seeking to permanently destroy any fair and reasonable ascent of Muslim nation states to a point where our fair and reasonable global interests can be protected I.e. al Aqsa, hijaz.
> 
> Any other superpower will support extreme Zionism blindly. China will at least be fair and balanced, and may even favour Muslims. China will crush extremists of all religions. I see no problem with that. Pakistan is actually the same. Our problem remains extremist Hindutva, which has piggybacked onto Christian fundamentalism and extreme zionism. The three are blurred into each other. Indeed, ideologies like Daesh or al Qaeda even feed into this unholy triumvirate and further damage the legitimate interests of moderate Muslim nation states. When you take a deep breath and actually consider Pakistani interests, be they religious or otherwise, China is our natural regional ally in helping achieve those goals, and as such is our rightful iron brother.


Every time when I m about to say some sharp comments against some Pakistani China bashers, I saw posts like this emerge and I decide to hold my tongue.

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## Zsari

DeadSparrow said:


> True. But her chances of being indoctrinated by CCP are a 100% since she's a Uighur.
> 
> I haven't seen a single CCP propaganda video showing a Muslim man or girl praying or doing or wearing anything religious.
> 
> Pretty hilarious that even their propaganda videos show exactly what they're being accused of ie forcing people to dance like maniacs and stay a billion miles away from religion.



Why do you think all Uighur must be Muslim and conduct religious activities? Her living a live without religion is not CCP indoctrination, but rather free from religious indoctrination. If she is under CCP indoctrination, then one should be showing a video of how she is conforming and advocating communism, which there is none.

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## fisher1

Zsari said:


> Why do you think all Uighur must be Muslim and conduct religious activities? Her living a live without religion is not CCP indoctrination, but rather free from religious indoctrination. If she is under CCP indoctrination, then one should be showing a video of how she is conforming and advocating communism, which there is none.



I don't think all Uighurs must be Muslim. It's just that the videos posted here - obvious propaganda videos - show happy Uighurs who have the least to do with Islam.

Which is exactly what China is being accused of. Uighurs aren't going to have issues of they become atheists communists but they're forbidden from practicing Islam and even the propaganda videos reaffirm that


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## fisher1

masterchief_mirza said:


> The anti- China sentiment is bizarre and sadly indicates the level of indoctrination by western media. I've seen near daily five minute special reports about poor innocent rich Hong Kong dissidents funded by megachurches in USA being baton rushed by police simply trying to maintain order and remind these dissidents that they live in a country that actually improves their lives. A solitary bullet fired into the air by a policeman trying to clear the area has been analysed to forensic levels on mainstream western websites. Meanwhile the RAPE, MASS PELLET ATTACKS, CLUSTER BOMBS AND MEDIEVAL TORTURE of Kashmiris/Pakistanis is roundly ignored while india is constantly patted on the back for just existing and dancing.
> 
> It's high bloody time all Pakistanis wake up and realise there can be zero peace or sympathy from extremist Hindus, extremist xtians or extremist Zionists. The only ones we can live in peace with are communists or true neutral atheists, who are balanced and treat all religions equally, or moderate religious states but the problem there is that the deep western states retain the crusader mentality of allenby and mountbatten, seeking to permanently destroy any fair and reasonable ascent of Muslim nation states to a point where our fair and reasonable global interests can be protected I.e. al Aqsa, hijaz.
> 
> Any other superpower will support extreme Zionism blindly. China will at least be fair and balanced, and may even favour Muslims. China will crush extremists of all religions. I see no problem with that. Pakistan is actually the same. Our problem remains extremist Hindutva, which has piggybacked onto Christian fundamentalism and extreme zionism. The three are blurred into each other. Indeed, ideologies like Daesh or al Qaeda even feed into this unholy triumvirate and further damage the legitimate interests of moderate Muslim nation states. When you take a deep breath and actually consider Pakistani interests, be they religious or otherwise, China is our natural regional ally in helping achieve those goals, and as such is our rightful iron brother.



Nice lecture but you failed to tell me which country was he mentioning if it wasn't Pakistan? 

Come on don't cower away now. 

By the way, in your lecture you forgot to mention that Chinese consider Islam a mental illness and praying, azan, fasting, not fornicating, not drinking alcohol /eating pig are all considered extremist behaviour. Even you're not sure if China will favour Muslims Hahaha.

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> in your lecture you forgot to mention that Chinese consider Islam a mental illness and praying, azan, fasting, not fornicating, not drinking alcohol /eating pig are all considered extremist behaviour. Even you're not sure if China will favour Muslims Hahaha.


I m Chinese, my best childhood friend is Hui Muslim, I never think Islam is a mential disease, who do you think you are to speak for we Chinese people?

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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> I don't think all Uighurs must be Muslim. It's just that the videos posted here - obvious propaganda videos - show happy Uighurs who have the least to do with Islam.
> 
> Which is exactly what China is being accused of. Uighurs aren't going to have issues of they become atheists communists but they're forbidden from practicing Islam and even the propaganda videos reaffirm that


Uighurs were buddists first and converted to Islam, forced or voluntarily, people don't have to be something at birth, freedom means they can choose what to believe, China doesn't teach Christianity much, but now huge number of young people become Christians, it's their choice, freedom to choose what to believe.

China On Track To Become World’s Largest Christian Country By 2025
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/china-largest-christian-country_n_5191910

I have several friends, girls, suddenly became Chrisitians, I don't know how that happened.


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> I m Chinese, my best childhood friend is Hui Muslim, I never think Islam is a mential disease, who do you think you are to speak for we Chinese people?



https://nymag.com/intelligencer/201...-islam-mental-illness.html?gtm=bottom&gtm=top

http://www.chinafile.com/reporting-...ealthy-they-will-be-able-live-happily-society

Nobody is saying anything is happening to Han Muslims yet. The experimentation is going on Uighurs atm.



beijingwalker said:


> I m Chinese, my best childhood friend is Hui Muslim, I never think Islam is a mential disease, who do you think you are to speak for we Chinese people?


https://www.ft.com/content/fa830466-1166-11e9-a581-4ff78404524e


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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> https://nymag.com/intelligencer/201...-islam-mental-illness.html?gtm=bottom&gtm=top
> 
> http://www.chinafile.com/reporting-...ealthy-they-will-be-able-live-happily-society
> 
> Nobody is saying anything is happening to Han Muslims yet. The experimentation is going on Uighurs atm.


If you don't believe what I posted, how do you expect me believe what you posted, beside, one million is logistically impossible in Xinjiang, anyone with normal IQ should realize that, and what's more, some reports even say 3 million, some say 2 million, they have different numbers coming out once in a while. that's means every single adult Uigur is in the camps, no Uighurs should be found on the street anywhere in Xinjiang.

[QUOTE="DeadSparrow, post: 11738638, member: 
https://www.ft.com/content/fa830466-1166-11e9-a581-4ff78404524e[/QUOTE]
What's that, a blank page.

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## masterchief_mirza

DeadSparrow said:


> Nice lecture but you failed to tell me which country was he mentioning if it wasn't Pakistan?
> 
> Come on don't cower away now.
> 
> By the way, in your lecture you forgot to mention that Chinese consider Islam a mental illness and praying, azan, fasting, not fornicating, not drinking alcohol /eating pig are all considered extremist behaviour. Even you're not sure if China will favour Muslims Hahaha.


Oh he was talking about Turkey.

I obviously have a problem with such turcophobia as Turkey are our erstwhile allies also. But it's likely that China and Turkey will move closer to each other soon due to shared geopolitical interests, so hopefully such thinly veiled rhetoric from our philipino friend will die down.

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## beijingwalker

masterchief_mirza said:


> Oh he was talking about Turkey.
> 
> I obviously have a problem with such turcophobia as Turkey are our erstwhile allies also. But it's likely that China and Turkey will move closer to each other soon due to shared geopolitical interests, so hopefully such thinly veiled rhetoric from our philipino friend will die down.


Countries to the west of China, I'll first think of Kazakhstan, Pakistan is to the south of China.

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## masterchief_mirza

And I'm not going to respond to the assertion that Chinese think Islam is a mental illness other than to say it isn't true. They are communists who restrict ALL religions publicly to a degree. Are all the videos posted of Muslims enjoying their culture and festivals completely faked? I don't think so. Yes, communists stop public servants outwardly projecting displays of faith, and no fasting or praying in public institutions. This is a rule for communist countries and all religions get the same treatment, so fair enough. As far as I know - though I admit I have never seen first hand - Muslims can retain their private religious rights in China as any religious group can. And they will never ever have to fear xtian or Hindutva nut jobs attacking them. Sounds good to me.



beijingwalker said:


> Countries to the west of China, I'll first think of Kazakhstan, Pakistan is to the south of China.


Well geographically yes Kazakhstan is the most obvious... But they don't have any bad blood with China do they?

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## beijingwalker

masterchief_mirza said:


> Well geographically yes Kazakhstan is the most obvious... But they don't have any bad blood with China do they?


No, they are China's close ally, just like Pakistan.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> *Xinjiang celebrates 70th anniversary of the people's republic of China
> *
> People in Xinjiang province celebrate the coming Chinese national day, 70th anniversary of the people's republic of China


Why are you flooding the forum with Xinjiang threads when you have a dedicated thread for XINJIANG?

@Arsalan warned you but you dont seem to respect this forum at all!

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## Zsari

DeadSparrow said:


> I don't think all Uighurs must be Muslim. It's just that the videos posted here - obvious propaganda videos - show happy Uighurs who have the least to do with Islam.
> 
> Which is exactly what China is being accused of. Uighurs aren't going to have issues of they become atheists communists but they're forbidden from practicing Islam and even the propaganda videos reaffirm that



You are jumping from having video of happy Uighur who has nothing to do with Islam to accusing China of forbidden these people from practicing Islam. Even if China shows zero video of Uighur practicing Islam, which is actually false, it simply means China doesn't want to promote the practice of Islam, not forbidden the practicing of Islam.

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> Why are you flooding the forum with Xinjiang threads when you have a dedicated thread for XINJIANG?
> 
> @Arsalan warned you but you dont seem to respect this forum at all!


This one is about Chinese national day celebration,coming October. 1. Mod says all none news anti and pro Xinjiang posts should be merged into one thread, but right now several anti Xinjiang threads are going on PDF at this moment.

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## beijingwalker

*Nighttime economy booms in China's Xinjiang*
Source: Xinhua| 2019-08-30 18:27:56|Editor: Xiaoxia





Aerial photo taken on Aug. 12, 2019 shows the night view of Tekes County, which is designed as a shape of Bagua or Eight Trigrams in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)





Tourists and a performer dance at the Grand Bazaar in Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 24, 2019. (Xinhua/Wang Fei)




A vender cooks Malatang or hot spicy soup at a night fair in Kashgar, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, Aug. 12, 2019. (Xinhua/Wang Fei)





People have a chat at a night fair in a tourist spot in Tekes County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, Aug. 12, 2019. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)





A singer performs at a bar in a shopping mall in Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 14, 2019. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)





People visit the Grand Bazaar in Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 27, 2019. (Xinhua/Wang Fei)





People watch a street dance performance at the Grand Bazaar in Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 27, 2019. (Xinhua/Wang Fei)

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-08/30/c_138351341_2.htm

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## fisher1

masterchief_mirza said:


> Oh he was talking about Turkey.
> 
> I obviously have a problem with such turcophobia as Turkey are our erstwhile allies also. But it's likely that China and Turkey will move closer to each other soon due to shared geopolitical interests, so hopefully such thinly veiled rhetoric from our philipino friend will die down.



Turkey is a terrorist exporting country? News to me. 



masterchief_mirza said:


> And I'm not going to respond to the assertion that Chinese think Islam is a mental illness other than to say it isn't true. They are communists who restrict ALL religions publicly to a degree. Are all the videos posted of Muslims enjoying their culture and festivals completely faked? I don't think so. Yes, communists stop public servants outwardly projecting displays of faith, and no fasting or praying in public institutions. This is a rule for communist countries and all religions get the same treatment, so fair enough. As far as I know - though I admit I have never seen first hand - Muslims can retain their private religious rights in China as any religious group can. And they will never ever have to fear xtian or Hindutva nut jobs attacking them. Sounds good to me.



I posted three different sites quoting Chinese own officials that called Islam a sickness. "Uighurs are infected with an ideology and need treatment in education camps. Islam needs to be sinified." 

You're also contradicting yourself. On one hand, you preach China as some religious freedom champion, on the other you actually admit that they suppress and oppress religious people. 

But it is okay because they're equally oppressive of every religion. 

LOL this is comedy



beijingwalker said:


> This one is about Chinese national day celebration,coming October. 1. Mod says all none news anti and pro Xinjiang posts should be merged into one thread, but right now several anti Xinjiang threads are going on PDF at this moment.



I posted one simply after i saw you defy the rules and i thought if he's allowed to do this, i should be too. 

By the way, weren't you the one that was complaining to mods in the first place and had them do this merging thing which i hated and got banned for my protests. Why don't you like it now?


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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> By the way, weren't you the one that was complaining to mods in the first place and had them do this merging thing which i hated and got banned for my protests. Why don't you like it now?


I didn't, and I goit banned many times already, different mods have their own different opinions.

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## ChineseTiger1986

masterchief_mirza said:


> The anti- China sentiment is bizarre and sadly indicates the level of indoctrination by western media. I've seen near daily five minute special reports about poor innocent rich Hong Kong dissidents funded by megachurches in USA being baton rushed by police simply trying to maintain order and remind these dissidents that they live in a country that actually improves their lives. A solitary bullet fired into the air by a policeman trying to clear the area has been analysed to forensic levels on mainstream western websites. Meanwhile the RAPE, MASS PELLET ATTACKS, CLUSTER BOMBS AND MEDIEVAL TORTURE of Kashmiris/Pakistanis is roundly ignored while india is constantly patted on the back for just existing and dancing.
> 
> It's high bloody time all Pakistanis wake up and realise there can be zero peace or sympathy from extremist Hindus, extremist xtians or extremist Zionists. The only ones we can live in peace with are communists or true neutral atheists, who are balanced and treat all religions equally, or moderate religious states but the problem there is that the deep western states retain the crusader mentality of allenby and mountbatten, seeking to permanently destroy any fair and reasonable ascent of Muslim nation states to a point where our fair and reasonable global interests can be protected I.e. al Aqsa, hijaz.
> 
> Any other superpower will support extreme Zionism blindly. China will at least be fair and balanced, and may even favour Muslims. China will crush extremists of all religions. I see no problem with that. Pakistan is actually the same. Our problem remains extremist Hindutva, which has piggybacked onto Christian fundamentalism and extreme zionism. The three are blurred into each other. Indeed, ideologies like Daesh or al Qaeda even feed into this unholy triumvirate and further damage the legitimate interests of moderate Muslim nation states. When you take a deep breath and actually consider Pakistani interests, be they religious or otherwise, China is our natural regional ally in helping achieve those goals, and as such is our rightful iron brother.



Well said brother, moderate mentality about the religions will be the only solution to bring the peace around the world.

The extremism is not only detrimental, also being manipulated by other foreign powers.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> This one is about Chinese national day celebration,coming October. 1. Mod says all none news anti and pro Xinjiang posts should be merged into one thread, but right now several anti Xinjiang threads are going on PDF at this moment.


And so you opened another thread on Xinjiang to counter them?


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> And so you opened another thread on Xinjiang to counter them?


I don't know who counters who, but it should be fair, if merge, merge all of them and the other mod agreed.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> I don't know who counters who, but it should be fair, if merge, merge all of them and the other mod agreed.


The other mod ALSO told you to keep one thread...don't nit pick what he said ...you do your part first 

And it is nothing fair to flood our forum with China


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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> The other mod ALSO told you to keep one thread...don't nit pick what he said ...you do your part first
> 
> And it is nothing fair to flood our forum with China


You just banned Beast again? And I think this is a Chinse and east Asia section of the forum.

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## Dubious

beijingwalker said:


> You just banned Beast again?


He earned it @Horus @Irfan Baloch @Oscar @waz @The Eagle @Arsalan 
Can you please keep these in check. They have been openly bashing any member who doesn't agree with them.
They have also been flooding the forum with new threads of the same topic. Just so it is filled with China related stuff....
Then bash anyone with a different opinion.

Enough is enough!

Why can't they stick to forum rules and respect the mods who tell them off? Why do they think they need special treatment?



beijingwalker said:


> You just banned Beast again? And I think this is a Chinse and east Asia section of the forum.


Instead of asking why don't you control him from attacking other members? 

@Deino please keep a tab on this one. He thinks owns Pakistan or we owe him for something



beijingwalker said:


> And I think this is a Chinse and east Asia section of the forum


Doesn't mean you need to flood it with Chinese propaganda. ..you yourself dedicated a thread to xinjiang yet you don't keep to it and flood the forum..

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## The Eagle

beijingwalker said:


> You just banned Beast again? And I think this is a Chinse and east Asia section of the forum.



doesn't matter. Members, regardless of flag or nationality, shall not violate the rules. Mod(s) can police sections per given authority. 


_For all the members, content or subject should be the priority to discuss with productive & knowledge based debate supported with facts & references. Other member or flag shouldn't be the idea of discussion._

Regards,

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## beijingwalker

Dubious said:


> He earned it @Horus @Irfan Baloch @Oscar @waz @The Eagle @Arsalan
> Can you please keep these in check. They have been openly bashing any member who doesn't agree with them.
> please keep a tab on this one. He thinks owns Pakistan or we owe him for something
> Doesn't mean you need to flood it with Chinese propaganda. ..you yourself dedicated a thread to xinjiang yet you don't keep to it and flood the forum..


Posters exchange barbs to each other sometimes, who attacks or only receive attack? who are they?
Who thinks owning Pakistan?
There are several Xinjaing threads going on which are not started by me, I only made some posts in those threads, please don't lie as a mod.

I know I may sound arrogant when I m talking to hostile countries, US, India, Turkey... but I m also humble and low key and try to avoid confrontation when talking to friendly countries like Pakistan, I always do, I never thought Pakistan owes China anything, we just enjoy this friendship forged by generations of our previous leaders dead and alive, I never talk down to friends, only to foes, so the assusation is groundless.

I don't know why Beast was banned, but I see no Chinese posters jumping in whatever Pakistan related threads to bash Pakistan including Beast, but I see several Pakistani posters do this in multiple China related threads of different topics.

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## Char

beijingwalker said:


> Posters exchange barbs to each other sometimes, who attacks or only receive attack? who are they?
> Who thinks owning Pakistan?
> There are several Xinjaing threads going on which are not started by me, I only made some posts in those threads, please don't lie as a mod.
> 
> I know I may sound arrogant when I m talking to hostile countries, US, India, Turkey... but I m also humble and low key and try to avoid confrontation when talking to friendly countries like Pakistan, I always do, I never thought Pakistan owes China anything, we just enjoy this friendship forged by generations of our previous leaders dead and alive, I never talk down to friends, only to foes, so the assusation is groundless.
> 
> I don't know why Beast was banned, but I see no Chinese posters jumping in whatever Pakistan related threads to bash Pakistan including Beast, but I see several Pakistani posters do this in multiple China related threads of different topics.

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## Omar Al-Deek

Better dead than red!






Just say "NO" to Judeo-Bolshevism!


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## masterchief_mirza

Cannot comprehend why beijingwalker got banned. Ridiculous. He never ever behaves in an insulting or arrogant manner to anyone and only defends his position against RELENTLESS unprovoked attacks on all his threads by imbeciles who make comments that are unrelated to the thread topic. Time and time again, he will post something but his detractors will leave a comment that is unrelated to that particular topic and instead indulges in a broadside bombardment using anything remotely anti-China or pro-separatist.

Do the mods not see this?

His threads are always derailed and turned into the usual Uighur mud slinging match. 

To forcibly limit all Uighur issues to one thread is also detrimental to the discussion, as the entire spectrum of thought cannot be respresented by forcing every discussion into a single mixing pot. You end up with everything related to uighurs and xinjiang being covered with the same layer of mud and nobody reading that thread can figure out what is being talked about or replied to.

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## Dubious

masterchief_mirza said:


> Cannot comprehend why beijingwalker got banned. Ridiculous. He never ever behaves in an insulting or arrogant manner to anyone and only defends his position against RELENTLESS unprovoked attacks on all his threads by imbeciles who make comments that are unrelated to the thread topic. Time and time again, he will post something but his detractors will leave a comment that is unrelated to that particular topic and instead indulges in a broadside bombardment using anything remotely anti-China or pro-separatist.
> 
> Do the mods not see this?
> 
> His threads are always derailed and turned into the usual Uighur mud slinging match.
> 
> To forcibly limit all Uighur issues to one thread is also detrimental to the discussion, as the entire spectrum of thought cannot be respresented by forcing every discussion into a single mixing pot. You end up with everything related to uighurs and xinjiang being covered with the same layer of mud and nobody reading that thread can figure out what is being talked about or replied to.


He breaks forum rule so often and tries to justify it.


Latest rule he broke was use Kashmir issue to score points for China.
Derailing thread more than once
Posting multiple threads on same issue even after warned 
Propaganda (of any format is not acceptable)



masterchief_mirza said:


> Cannot comprehend why beijingwalker got banned. Ridiculous. He never ever behaves in an insulting or arrogant manner to anyone and only defends his position against RELENTLESS unprovoked attacks on all his threads by imbeciles who make comments that are unrelated to the thread topic. Time and time again, he will post something but his detractors will leave a comment that is unrelated to that particular topic and instead indulges in a broadside bombardment using anything remotely anti-China or pro-separatist.
> 
> Do the mods not see this?
> 
> His threads are always derailed and turned into the usual Uighur mud slinging match.
> 
> To forcibly limit all Uighur issues to one thread is also detrimental to the discussion, as the entire spectrum of thought cannot be respresented by forcing every discussion into a single mixing pot. You end up with everything related to uighurs and xinjiang being covered with the same layer of mud and nobody reading that thread can figure out what is being talked about or replied to.


He breaks forum rule so often and tries to justify it.


Latest rule he broke was use Kashmir issue to score points for China. (This time he derailed his own thread about Kashmir and made it about China)
Derailing thread more than once
Posting multiple threads on same issue even after warned 
Propaganda (of any format is not acceptable)
As for singing praises for him...He has been so humble that he has attacked any member who dosent agree with him. Even mocking them and giving thanks to his backup who does the dirty work. ..If you are oblivious to the team effort of a propaganda machine that is no one's fault but your own. He doesn't allow discussion nor alternative approach...A discussion can only occur if you have people talking and sharing multiple views....now if he doesn't allow it..That is not being humble but a dictator ...He had been warned about it multiple times even banned for such habit but he refused to change.

Mind you none of what he does is humble. Humble doesn't include bashing mocking insulting. Nor does it include forcing people to accept his view point and crying if they don't.

He opened a thread where all Xinjiang topics were to be introduced but somehow he was not satisfied (this is despite crying for that same thread to be opened again after it was closed due to derailing )...He went on to open fresh threads about Xinjiang despite being told to keep it to that thread...He was asked by two mods.

Being so humble he listened to none while tried miserbly to justified his doing.

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## Char

Dubious said:


> He breaks forum rule so often and tries to justify it.
> 
> 
> Latest rule he broke was use Kashmir issue to score points for China.
> Derailing thread more than once
> Posting multiple threads on same issue even after warned
> Propaganda (of any format is not acceptable)
> 
> 
> He breaks forum rule so often and tries to justify it.
> 
> 
> Latest rule he broke was use Kashmir issue to score points for China. (This time he derailed his own thread about Kashmir and made it about China)
> Derailing thread more than once
> Posting multiple threads on same issue even after warned
> Propaganda (of any format is not acceptable)
> As for singing praises for him...He has been so humble that he has attacked any member who dosent agree with him. Even mocking them and giving thanks to his backup who does the dirty work. ..If you are oblivious to the team effort of a propaganda machine that is no one's fault but your own. He doesn't allow discussion nor alternative approach...A discussion can only occur if you have people talking and sharing multiple views....now if he doesn't allow it..That is not being humble but a dictator ...He had been warned about it multiple times even banned for such habit but he refused to change.
> 
> Mind you none of what he does is humble. Humble doesn't include bashing mocking insulting. Nor does it include forcing people to accept his view point and crying if they don't.
> 
> He opened a thread where all Xinjiang topics were to be introduced but somehow he was not satisfied (this is despite crying for that same thread to be opened again after it was closed due to derailing )...He went on to open fresh threads about Xinjiang despite being told to keep it to that thread...He was asked by two mods.
> 
> Being so humble he listened to none while tried miserbly to justified his doing.



I really don't think he belongs to any team of propaganda machine, or he would not have worked so hard.
But I do know why you don't like him.

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## Dubious

Char said:


> I really don't think he belongs to any team of propaganda machine, or he would not have worked so hard.
> But I do know why you don't like him.


Lol. ..so you think if he belonged to a propaganda agent he wouldn't work so hard?

Man that is funny..

I don't have to like or hate him...He needs to behave and follow forum rules


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## Dubious

doorstar said:


> I can find 10 non-chinese doing that in ten minutes
> same as no. 1
> same as above except the warned part
> are you kidding me? may not be acceptable but it's allowed in almost every thread!


Then report...beijingwalker was warned repeatedly. He used Kashmir issue to promote China shamelessly derailing his own thread ....to serve his own China praising...

He became so comfortable le in detailimg everything to Chima praising..He didnt evem spare rhe misety of Lashmir...He didn't need to use Kashmir issue ..



doorstar said:


> I can find 10 non-chinese doing that in ten minutes
> same as no. 1
> same as above except the warned part
> are you kidding me? may not be acceptable but it's allowed in almost every thread!


Please don't make this about Chinese vs non Chinese. 
He was ignored for every rule he broke...but he became so comfortable in trolling that he didn't spare Kashmir issue for his propaganda


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## Char

Dubious said:


> Lol. ..so you think if he belonged to a propaganda agent he wouldn't work so hard?
> 
> Man that is funny..
> 
> I don't have to like or hate him...He needs to behave and follow forum rules



I know people in Chinese propaganda machine, they only provide official statement. and propaganda machines here from other countries only work hard pereodly.


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## Dubious

doorstar said:


> ok apologies but I liked him as a friend of Pakistan nearly as much as you. but his problem was provocations by uighur lovers (if they really are that and not injuns, turks and americans with a purpose). he was not old enough to handle them subtly hence would lash-out without thinking.


I agree but forum rules are same for everyone ..

He was harmless yes but he really didn't care for the forum rules....He didn't adhere to warnings



Char said:


> I know people in Chinese propaganda machine, they only provide official statement. and propaganda machines here from other countries only work hard pereodly.


Propaganda doesn't only means paid trolls...It can be anyone...who wishes to pass only one agenda..

He needs to allow discussions that is what a forum is for...otherwise have a blog with no alternative theories...We are not a blog we have people with different point of views ...This is not his personAl blog that he attacks others who don't agree with him


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## Char

Dubious said:


> I agree but forum rules are same for everyone ..
> 
> He was harmless yes but he really didn't care for the forum rules....He didn't adhere to warnings
> 
> 
> Propaganda doesn't only means paid trolls...It can be anyone...who wishes to pass only one agenda..
> 
> He needs to allow discussions that is what a forum is for...otherwise have a blog with no alternative theories...We are not a blog we have people with different point of views ...This is not his personAl blog that he attacks others who don't agree with him



He shouldn't promote how success Xinjiang is and how happy people are living, some people feel this is their failure and a threat.

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## masterchief_mirza

He didn't use Kashmir to score points in my humble opinion. I believe he mentioned Kashmir as an example of where China stands with Pakistan while other nations fail in this regard. I don't think that is a point scoring matter but is in fact a very important fact that many on these forums need reminding of. Anyway I hope he returns from exile soon as his posts were highly informative for me.

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## Numerous

masterchief_mirza said:


> Cannot comprehend why beijingwalker got banned. Ridiculous. He never ever behaves in an insulting or arrogant manner to anyone and only defends his position against RELENTLESS unprovoked attacks on all his threads by imbeciles who make comments that are unrelated to the thread topic. Time and time again, he will post something but his detractors will leave a comment that is unrelated to that particular topic and instead indulges in a broadside bombardment using anything remotely anti-China or pro-separatist.
> 
> Do the mods not see this?
> 
> His threads are always derailed and turned into the usual Uighur mud slinging match.
> 
> To forcibly limit all Uighur issues to one thread is also detrimental to the discussion, as the entire spectrum of thought cannot be respresented by forcing every discussion into a single mixing pot. You end up with everything related to uighurs and xinjiang being covered with the same layer of mud and nobody reading that thread can figure out what is being talked about or replied to.



Very bias defence. He spams the forum with tonnes of uighur/xinjiang threads (even though he himself made this thread?) and he derails plenty of times too. 

There's a good reason why he attracts tonnes of people who argue with him all the time. We don't do it for no reason.

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## Dubious

Char said:


> He shouldn't promote how success Xinjiang is and how happy people are living, some people feel this is their failure and a threat.


he should promote that in this thread not go opening different threads on this topic! This thread is for that purpose not the whole forum!


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## fisher1

masterchief_mirza said:


> To forcibly limit all Uighur issues to one thread is also detrimental to the discussion, as the entire spectrum of thought cannot be respresented by forcing every discussion into a single mixing pot. You end up with everything related to uighurs and xinjiang being covered with the same layer of mud and nobody reading that thread can figure out what is being talked about or replied to.



Didn't see you objecting when i was protesting against this and got myself banned for it. Now that it's not working in favor of Xinjiang positive propaganda, they've a problem with it.

People including myself responded to his threads because it was all everything is nice and happy in there which is a lie. That's like Indians saying Kashmir is happy by showing a few happy Kashmiris.

Sure, many Uighurs who have given up on religion are happy there. China doesn't have a problem with Uighurs, China has a problem with Islam. China feels threatened by Islam because it rejects false dogs (gods) like CCP and Xi Jinping.


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## masterchief_mirza

DeadSparrow said:


> Didn't see you objecting when i was protesting against this and got myself banned for it.


As far as I know, I didn't see your posts protesting against the aggregating of all such issues into one single thread, so I don't think you can really criticise me on that.


----------



## Hexciter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1170959247334678529


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## Hexciter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1173355824657383424


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## S10

Hexciter said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1173355824657383424


Han dynasty established its presence in the Tarim Basin（西域都护府）by 50 B.C.E. Chinese people settled in the region more than two millenias ago. We predate the the arrival of Islam in the region by over 700 years. Want to claim native status? Take a number and wait in line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectorate_of_the_Western_Regions

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## Numerous



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## Hexciter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1175335483372687363

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## vi-va

Hexciter said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1175335483372687363


Is it fake? It's so silly to record the screen instead of copy the original video. Have some IQ, please.


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## vi-va

Hexciter said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1175335483372687363


Have a job please. or this is your job? Hatred take you nowhere. Chinese have much better life than what you portrayed.

Shame on you.

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## vi-va

DeadSparrow said:


> https://news.sky.com/video/16-9-video-uighurs-001-mp4-11815421


I think it's fake. It's so silly to record the screen instead of copy the original video. Have some IQ, please.

By the way, if DJI drone fly over so many people, why nobody looked upward? I used DJI drone, it's noisy, it's impossible to ignore.

Even though it's real, it can't prove anything. China lock criminals as every countries do, and by the way there are 2 millions Americans locked in jail right now.

Don't use those fake news to fool around. Have a job or this is your job?


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Are those language allowed in PDF? but anyway, dirty mouth only shows your frustration you are, if you think insulting others can help your cause, be our guest,lol.. go on.



Look at their replies mocking Allah. I restrained myself, you people have mocked God for so long and enjoy His mercy, you don't know the respect and love God deserves. InshaAllah, you will find out on the day of Judgment but then it would be no use. 

Exalted is Allah above what they associate with Him.

God is unique and dissimilar to anything: “There is nothing like Him” (42.11).

@waz @Dubious Do you see nothing wrong with how they disrespect Allah and mock the concept of Islam.

They're so used to this in their daily life against Uighurs and enjoying God's mercy that they have the audacity to say these here too without fearing any repercussions.

I can't repeat what they said because of how disgusting it is.




haidian said:


> you can stop working and pray 5 times a day and see if bread will come to you from the heaven or you'll end up dead. Try it for a week and come back to tell us.





S10 said:


> It's the truth. What's anti-Islam about it? Allah gonna throw bread at you from the sky when you pray?


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## beijingwalker

DeadSparrow said:


> Look at their replies mocking Allah. I restrained myself, you people have mocked God for so long and enjoy His mercy, you don't know the respect and love God deserves. InshaAllah, you will find out on the day of Judgment but then it would be no use.
> 
> Exalted is Allah above what they associate with Him.
> 
> God is unique and dissimilar to anything: “There is nothing like Him” (42.11).
> 
> @waz @Dubious Do you see nothing wrong with how they disrespect Allah and mock the concept of Islam.
> 
> They're so used to this in their daily life against Uighurs and enjoying God's mercy that they have the audacity to say these here too without fearing any repercussions.
> 
> I can't repeat what they said because of how disgusting it is.


I guess they say praying alone won't give you a good life, you need to work to get one, why this is disrespect?


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## Dubious

Dear Chinese members, 

THIS is not China. You dont get to bash Islam, its practice, the religion or its people (Muslims)...

You have enough space in China to do so. Kindly do not pollute our forum with your intolerant practices! 

@waz @Deino @Irfan Baloch @Oscar @Slav Defence @The Eagle @WAJsal @Horus @WebMaster 

I am sorry but this should never have been allowed in the first place! 
And I feel no shame in punishing those involved! So any Chinese members who cries about this! Kindly ban them another time coz we should never accept such practices!

If the Chinese members want respect, they need to learn to respect our culture, practices, religion and values too! It is not a 1 way street and it is disgusting to not have boundaries!

I suggest this thread remain closed - Until and Unless Chinese members learn/ understand and respect basics and know their boundaries! 

I also suggest any propagation on Uyghur people be forbidden since no good discussion ever comes out of it!

After all some Chinese members open threads on Ughur outside this thread so the purpose of this thread doesnt exist except to bash bash and bash!

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## Bismarck

*Chinese muslims reveal rapes, abortions and forced sterilisations 'using chilli paste' at 'concentration camps' as shocking footage emerges of hundreds of shackled and blindfolded prisoners*

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...orced-sterilisations-concentration-camps.html


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## vi-va

Bismarck said:


> *Chinese muslims reveal rapes, abortions and forced sterilisations 'using chilli paste' at 'concentration camps' as shocking footage emerges of hundreds of shackled and blindfolded prisoners*
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...orced-sterilisations-concentration-camps.html



Again, fake news and multiple troll thread again.
@American Pakistani @waz @WebMaster


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## Bismarck

viva_zhao said:


> Again, fake news and multiple troll thread again.
> @American Pakistani @waz @WebMaster



Who said its fake? China government. We want free access to the concentration camps. Lets see what's happing their and who is right. China, or the rest of the world.

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## Rollno21

viva_zhao said:


> Again, fake news and multiple troll thread again.
> @American Pakistani @waz @WebMaster


It just 2 mins from the time the thread was posted to you declaring it a fake news .

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## Zsari

Bismarck said:


> *Chinese muslims reveal rapes, abortions and forced sterilisations 'using chilli paste' at 'concentration camps' as shocking footage emerges of hundreds of shackled and blindfolded prisoners*
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...orced-sterilisations-concentration-camps.html



What's so shocking about shackled and blindfolded prisoners? What's so special about transfer from detention center to prison. A prison can house thousands of prisoners.


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## flameboard

viva_zhao said:


> Again, fake news and multiple troll thread again.
> @American Pakistani @waz @WebMaster


Seems like an established media outlet to be me


----------



## 8888888888888

Before the Iraq invasion in 2003 the same thing happen with the main stream media.


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## Zapper

flameboard said:


> Seems like an established media outlet to be me


Dailymail is one of the most reputed media outlets in UK but again many forum members will brush it off saying western propaganda


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## beijingwalker

*Your ketchup might be from NW China's Xinjiang
*
I never knew that Xinjiang dominates the global ketchup market, Xinjiang is well known in China for its fruits production, but not many know it also produces world most tomatos...

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## W.11

reminds me of the pulp fiction's ketchup joke.






regards


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## war&peace

We make our own ketchup whenever we need... used to use Heinz but dropped it from the shopping list since a long.

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## xyxmt

New York Time: This Ketchup may have Ugher Blood in it to give it red color

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## Omar Al-Deek

Communist infiltration of the ketchup supply.... it seems the reds will stop at nothing

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## beijingwalker

Daughter of martyred Uighur officer slams US bill over Xinjiang, her father was the head of a police station and was martyred trying to stop a suicide bombing attack in 2016. That was the last terrorist attack in Xinjiang region. 

She condemns US and says US bill over Xinjiang is just waste paper and US has no rights to point fingers at Xinjiang , US has no idea of how they Uighurs live. Today's Xinjiang's peace, stability and great prosperity were made possible with the lives and blood of the heroes like her father, and she will follow her father's footsteps, protecting our homeland and develop our beautiful Xinjiang.

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## AKINCI

She really looks like an Uyghur.


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## UKBengali

Plenty of house slaves like her dad can be found.
I dread to think what would have happened to her if she did not do as the CCP says!

Irrelevant as Uyghur's are being oppressed.

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## Beast

UKBengali said:


> Plenty of house slaves like her dad can be found.
> I dread to think what would have happened to her if she did not do as the CCP says!
> 
> Irrelevant as Uyghur's are being oppressed.


More like China slayer refuse to admit Uighur native standard of living improves greatly CPC policy. Why not buy a ticket and fly to Xinjiang to see it for yourself rather than spewing rubbish. None of central asia top cities can beat Urumqi in terms of living standard and infrastructure. The girl no need to be slaves cos she got eyes and a sound mind to see them from living mud hut to concrete housing equipped with electricity. A promising job for their future and her infant kids can grow up in a high standard of living environment.

She do it in her own will to defend CPC for what they are enjoying now.

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## Clutch

She doesn't even look Uighur.

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## UKBengali

Beast said:


> More like China slayer refuse to admit Uighur native standard of living improves greatly CPC policy. Why not buy a ticket and fly to Xinjiang to see it for yourself rather than spewing rubbish. None of central asia top cities can beat Urumqi in terms of living standard and infrastructure. The girl no need to be slaves cos she got eyes and a sound mind to see them from living mud hut to concrete housing equipped with electricity. A promising job for their future and her infant kids can grow up in a high standard of living environment.
> 
> She do it in her own will to defend CPC for what they are enjoying now.




Did anyone deny that China is bringing great prosperity to Xinjiang?

All we are saying is stop imprisoning Uighur's just for following their culture.

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## 8888888888888

Depends if their culture is 100% Uighur and don’t have any foreign imports from the Middle East.

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## beijingwalker

UKBengali said:


> Plenty of house slaves like her dad can be found.
> I dread to think what would have happened to her if she did not do as the CCP says!
> 
> Irrelevant as Uyghur's are being oppressed.


If your father was killed by someone, will you speak for the killer? What kind of mentality makes you think she may speak for those who killed her father in cold blood?

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## Beast

UKBengali said:


> Did anyone deny that China is bringing great prosperity to Xinjiang?
> 
> All we are saying is stop imprisoning Uighur's just for following their culture.



You mean wearing burqa or stop dressing in traditional uyghur costume is stopping in following their uyghur culture? I think you need a head check.

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## beijingwalker

Clutch said:


> She doesn't even look Uighur.


Check her full name and her father''s report. What an Uighur should look like?

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## Telescopic Sight

Wonder how many guns were pointed at the small child while she was speaking ! 

Just look at her expression !!

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## Beast

Telescopic Sight said:


> Wonder how many guns were pointed at the small child while she was speaking !
> 
> Just look at her expression !!


Yes, ask native Red Indian how they become from majority from North American to almost extinct in country of USA.

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## UKBengali

8888888888888 said:


> Depends if their culture is 100% Uighur and don’t have any foreign imports from the Middle East.





Dude....


China is not the one to define what culture that Uighur's choose to follow.


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## beijingwalker

Telescopic Sight said:


> Wonder how many guns were pointed at the small child while she was speaking !
> 
> Just look at her expression !!


Her father was killed by terrorists, what do you expect from her? Smiling? She was indignant for those who speak for her father's killers. Most officers who died fighting terrorists in Xinjiang are ethnic Uighurs.

CCTV tribute to the officers died in fighting terrorists in Xinjiang, most of them are ethnic Uighur officers.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Clutch said:


> She doesn't even look Uighur.



Maybe its the Chinese-style makeup which makes her look like that.

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## beijingwalker

Clutch said:


> She doesn't even look Uighur.


经中共中央批准，中华人民共和国国家勋章和国家荣誉称号颁授仪式隆重举行。中共中央总书记、国家主席、中央军委主席习近平出席仪式，向国家勋章和国家荣誉称号获得者分别授予“共和国勋章”“友谊勋章”和国家荣誉称号奖章，并发表重要讲话。

国家主席习近平9月17日签署主席令，授予42人国家勋章、国家荣誉称号。其中，作为全国公安民警代表，新疆维吾尔自治区皮山县公安局原副局长艾热提·马木提被授予“人民英雄”国家荣誉称号。

艾热提·马木提 was awarded the national people's hero of China and president Xi jinping personally handed the family the award.







艾热提·马木提(father) National hero of China, died in fighting terrorists.


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## beijingwalker

AKINCI said:


> She really looks like an Uyghur.


Another hero's daughter, does she look Uighur in your eyes?

*Daughter of a martyred Uighur officer follows father's step to become a police officer*

22 years old daughter of a martyred Uighur officer follows father's step to become a police officer

Her father was the head officer of a police station in rural Xinjiang, he gave his own life protecting people from a group of terrorists in 2015, the girl was a college student back then and after her father's death she determined to become a police officer like her father, she transfered from her college to Xinjaing police academy, now she is carrying her father's unfinished task and becomes an officer protecting the country and the people.




我的爸爸，他不是我的英雄。如果他是我的英雄，他不应该站在我这边吗？不应该二十年来，对待家庭也像对待公安事业一样热血付出吗？”

是的，在小女儿喀伊热·买买提江的记忆中，买买提江·托乎尼牙孜是个比普通朋友联系还要少的父亲，他永远在忙，生活中基本没管过孩子，没顾过家庭。




http://m2.people.cn/r/MV8wXzExMjQ4MTAxXzMwXzE1MzA4NDE2MTE=

Her father, an honored national hero by the government

That girl still remembered that heartbroken moment when she learned that his father died in fighting terrorism as a freshman in college, she just couldn't believe it, after the sorrow set down she already made up her mind to become a police officer just like her father,but when she told her mother on this decision her mother wept and tried to stop her, saying " Our family had already given one life to the country, isn't that enough"! But the girl was so determined , one day she went back home wearing borrowed police uniform, her mother just broke into tears when seeing that uniform and agreed with the daughter's decision.






喀伊热·买买提江: Every time when I hear the Chinese National anthem and see the rise of the Chinese national flag, I just can't hold back my tears, they are the embodyment of my father who gave his life to the people and the country, when I see and hear them, I can feel the presence of my father again. When I was lucky enough to sing the Chinese national anthem together with president Xi during a conference in Beijing, I just could control my overwhelming emotions.

喀伊热·买买提江 talks about her story and her father who gave his life for the country, she almost cried when mentioning her father, the pain is still too strong for this young girl.

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## UKBengali

So a "Hero" to Chinese pdf posters are people that have sold out their own people for Chinese Yuan?

Uighurs are being systematically oppressed that even a Pakistani minister mentioned it!

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## beijingwalker

UKBengali said:


> So a "Hero" to Chinese pdf posters are people that have sold out their own people for Chinese Yuan?
> 
> Uighurs are being systematically oppressed that even a Pakistani minister mentioned it!


Xinjiang's governor is an Uighur and most law enforcement officers are Uighurs, they gave their lives to fight terrorism and can Yuan buy their lives? Uighur soldiers and officers are well armed by the government, but not even one single Uighur soldier turned their guns against the government, this fact speaks volume.

Pakistan's position on Xinjiang is very clear, it signed a letter to support Chinese government policies over Xinjaing long with dozens of other Muslim countries.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

UKBengali said:


> Uighurs are being systematically oppressed that even a *Pakistani minister* mentioned it!



Baseless and fabricated news.


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## Clutch

beijingwalker said:


> Check her full name and her father''s report. What an Uighur should look like?



Not like han.


----------



## beijingwalker

Clutch said:


> Not like han.


Seems you dont know that looks of Uighurs can vary from a full blood Han to a full blood European, that again shows how little you know about Xinjiang.

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## TheTruth

UKBengali said:


> Plenty of house slaves like her dad can be found.
> I dread to think what would have happened to her if she did not do as the CCP says!
> 
> Irrelevant as Uyghur's are being oppressed.



Fake news


----------



## UKBengali

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Baseless and fabricated news.



I welcome you to condemn oppression of Muslims in Xinjiang.

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## fisher1

So her justification is that because her father was killed by one terrorist, it means all Uighurs are terrorists and it's okay to put them in concentration camps? 

What nonsense. 

My country Pakistan suffered from the extreme terrorism that no other country has and yet my government didn't round up the whole KPK and put all of Pashtuns to concentration camps. Because that's just stupid. No, the terrorists were killed and the innocents spared. 

I imagine China would round up all blacks and put them in torture camps because in America, most crimes are committed by blacks so the Chinese solution is to make everyone a criminal just because one person from that race does it

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## beijingwalker

IlyasMyHero said:


> So her justification is that because her father was killed by one terrorist, it means all Uighurs are terrorists and it's okay to put them in concentration camps?
> 
> What nonsense.


Who says Uighurs are all terrorists and it's ok to put them in concentration camps?



IlyasMyHero said:


> My country Pakistan suffered from the extreme terrorism that no other country has and yet my government didn't round up the whole KPK and put all of Pashtuns to concentration camps. Because that's just stupid. No, the terrorists were killed and the innocents spared.


I think China has no desire to follow Pakistan way to fight terrorism, neither does China expect Pakistan to follow China's.what you do in your country is non of our business.



IlyasMyHero said:


> I imagine China would round up all blacks and put them in torture camps because in America, most crimes are committed by blacks so the Chinese solution is to make everyone a criminal just because one person from that race does it


It's ok for you to *imagine* anything, we don't have any objections.

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## UKBengali

IlyasMyHero said:


> So her justification is that because her father was killed by one terrorist, it means all Uighurs are terrorists and it's okay to put them in concentration camps?
> 
> What nonsense.
> 
> My country Pakistan suffered from the extreme terrorism that no other country has and yet my government didn't round up the whole KPK and put all of Pashtuns to concentration camps. Because that's just stupid. No, the terrorists were killed and the innocents spared.
> 
> I imagine China would round up all blacks and put them in torture camps because in America, most crimes are committed by blacks so the Chinese solution is to make everyone a criminal just because one person from that race does it



China is trying to destroy a whole culture - something we have not seen in modern history.
Basic human right is to live like your ancestors if you wish - state owns land but not people.

I had such high hopes for China but am very disappointed in them.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Who says Uighurs are all terrorists and it's ok to put them in concentration camps?



Isn't she slamming the US bill because her father died fighting terrorism and she is happy with how China is detaining all Uighurs to stop terrorism? That's literally what she said. 



beijingwalker said:


> I think China has no desire to follow Pakistan way to fight terrorism, neither does China expect Pakistan to follow China's.what you do in your country is non of our business.



Yeah that's obvious. China doesn't believe in human rights. 




beijingwalker said:


> It's ok for you to *imagine* anything, we don't have any objections.



Imagine? - that's literally what's happening to Uighurs. Their crime? Some Uighurs terrorists did terrorism so China just rounds up the whole Uighur minority.

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## beijingwalker

IlyasMyHero said:


> Isn't she slamming the US bill because her father died fighting terrorism and she is happy with how China is detaining all Uighurs to stop terrorism? That's literally what she said.
> .


Who detained all Uighurs? As you can see, Xinjiang governor is a Uighur and most Xinjiang law enforcement officers are Uighurs, why didn't they turn their guns on the government if they feel mistreated?

新疆军区某团上士沙地力，即是二等功臣
PLA Staff Sergeant 沙地力， second PLA honor badge owner. A model soldier.
I am willing to go through all hardships as long as I can beat those who are against my motherland China, said 沙地力.







IlyasMyHero said:


> Imagine? - that's literally what's happening to Uighurs. Their crime? Some Uighurs terrorists did terrorism so China just rounds up the whole Uighur minority.


Who says so? Not even one Muslim country believes it.








UKBengali said:


> China is trying to destroy a whole culture - something we have not seen in modern history.
> Basic human right is to live like your ancestors if you wish - state owns land but not people.
> 
> I had such high hopes for China but am very disappointed in them.


China doesn't do things to please you, we will keep doing what we think is right in our country, if you think it hurts your country, you can ask your government to complain to China, but I never heard Bangladesh brought Xinjiang issue to China.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Who says so? Not even one Muslim country believes it.



https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...china-close-uighur-camps-190209202215688.html


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1203257592748732417

Oh they believe it. Just the power of $$$ has kept them shut.

Our human rights minister slipped out that there are isolated cases so from an outright denial to now isolated cases in concentration camps.


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## Kyle Sun

UKBengali said:


> Did anyone deny that China is bringing great prosperity to Xinjiang?
> 
> All we are saying is stop imprisoning Uighur's just for following their culture.


No one will fall for such ridiculous claim.
Your so called imprisoned Uighurs have committed the killing culture.



IlyasMyHero said:


> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...china-close-uighur-camps-190209202215688.html
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1203257592748732417
> 
> Oh they believe it. Just the power of $$$ has kept them shut.
> 
> Our human rights minister slipped out that there are isolated cases so from an outright denial to now isolated cases in concentration camps.


Aljazeera asks another country to criticise China for human rights?
That's the most ridiculous and halirious joke I have ever seen. They should look into the mirror before point its dirty fingers to a country that is thousands mile away from them.

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## beijingwalker

IlyasMyHero said:


> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...china-close-uighur-camps-190209202215688.html
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1203257592748732417
> 
> Oh they believe it. Just the power of $$$ has kept them shut.
> 
> Our human rights minister slipped out that there are isolated cases so from an outright denial to now isolated cases in concentration camps.


As long as your country is on China's side, it'll be all ok, we don't expect people to people exchanges between us. Pakistan as a country is firmly with China over Xinjiang.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

UKBengali said:


> I welcome you to condemn oppression of Muslims in Xinjiang.



Why would I say something which I don't believe. From reading my posts, do I look like a CIA dog to you?



beijingwalker said:


> As long as your country is on China's side, it'll be all ok, *we don't expect people to people exchanges between us*. Pakistan as a country is firmly with China over Xinjiang.



You are doing good work on this forum for your country, but statements like these have to go. Such exchanges are already happening. We even have Chinese converting to Islam.


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## beijingwalker

Chinese senior government official tries to comfort the Uighur girl whose father died in fighting terrorists. China has speical policies for deceased national heores, their families and children will be well taken care by the government.







Chairman of the Chinese people's congress 张春贤 pays a visit to Xinjiang university to see the daughther of a martyred Uighur officer for fighting terrorists, they had some snacks together in her domitory in school, her future university cost and job arrangement, housing...all will be all taken care by the government.


----------



## fisher1

Coerced Uighur labor touches almost every part of the supply chain.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/12/11/cotton-china-uighur-labor-xinjiang-new-slavery/

“Employment: Yarkant County satellite factory [for] persons in detention or reeducation.” The spreadsheet, obtained from a cache of local government files, lists the employment status of nearly 2,000 Uighurs—but the 148 entries that carry this particular designation stand out like a sore thumb. Since spring 2017, the Chinese government has placed vast numbers of Turkic minorities into internment camps, which it refers to as “reeducation camps,” in the northwestern Xinjiang region. This March, it claimed that these supposed students would gradually be released into work placements. Data such as this supports this claim, but not in the way that the government is trying to sell it. Rather, it is part of a rapidly growing set of evidence for how Beijing’s long-term strategy to subdue its northwestern minorities is predicated upon a perverse and intrusive combination of coercive labor, intergenerational separation, and complete social control. 


In Xinjiang, state-mandated poverty alleviation goes along with different forms of involuntary labor placements. Under the banner of “industry-driven poverty alleviation,” minorities are being torn away from their own jobs and families. Just as brainwashing is masked as “job training,” forced labor is concealed behind the euphemistic facade of “poverty alleviation.” The irony of placing interned Uighurs into labor-intensive sweatshops is that many of them were extremely skilled businesspeople, intellectuals, or scientists. 


Several years ago, flourishing Uighur businesses abroad were severely impacted by seizures of passports, and Uighurs have been progressively forced out of eastern Chinese labor markets. While there are many Uighurs living marginal economic existences, this group are not people who need unskilled labor jobs paid at around 85 cents per hour. 


*But for Beijing, the real aim is not to improve Uighurs’ lives.* It is to achieve so-called social stability in its most extreme form imaginable: the state controlling the educational, work, and care placement of every family member, however old they are. But for Beijing, the real aim is not to improve Uighurs’ lives. It is to achieve so-called social stability in its most extreme form imaginable: the state controlling the educational, work, and care placement of every family member, however old they are. The first layer of the scheme is the most blatantly coercive. Under the label “vocational education and training plus,” the region is wooing mainland enterprises to train and employ internment camp detainees. Participating companies receive 1,800 RMB per camp detainee they train, and a further 5,000 RMB for each detainee they employ. 


Perhaps unaware that this scheme constitutes a major violation of both Chinese and international law, Xinjiang’s regional government website openly admits that this post-internment labor scheme “has attracted a large number of coastal enterprises from the mainland to invest and build factories, which has powerfully expanded employment and promoted increased incomes.” The spreadsheet from Xinjiang’s Yarkant County tells a very different story: one of shameless exploitation. Of the 148 satellite factory workers who had previously been interned, 43 had their monthly wages listed. Of these, two-thirds only earned 800 RMB per month, about $100, and the average stated wage was 1,228 RMB (about $175) a month—around the level of minimum wage in the region. The oldest person was 74 years old, and nearly half were 40 years or older. 

Rather than giving young people a strong start into a profitable career, Xinjiang’s internment campaign is tearing middle-aged income earners and even retirees away from their families. The government’s own reports reveal that this practice is causing families to fall below the poverty line. But the region’s coercive labor scheme is far more encompassing than the internment drive. Hundreds of thousands of so-called rural surplus laborers are also receiving what is termed “centralized” job training in closed facilities. Two thirds of this supposed training typically consists of military drills and political indoctrination. 


The main difference between this training scheme and the internment camps is that its duration is shorter and fixed. Both are equally involuntary: Minority regions are assigned annual quotas for the numbers of trained surplus laborers that they must produce. Finally, Xinjiang is setting up so-called satellite factories in every other village in order to literally put every able-bodied adult to work. 


One propaganda account speaks of a mother of three small children, the youngest only 13 months old. The father works full time outside the village. Since these factories are equipped with nurseries that even care for infants, the mother is now also laboring full time. The goal of all this is not primarily economic. The combination of full-time work and centralized elder care and child care is to ensure family members spend more time in state-controlled settings than with each other, under constant surveillance and control. 


It’s important to note that it has become effectively impossible for the vast majority of Uighurs to leave Xinjiang and participate in the Chinese labor force elsewhere out of their own initiative; even the appearance of a new Uighur face in a non-Xinjiang city can spark a police investigation. 


These schemes operate on a continuum of coercion, and they are becoming heavily intertwined. Collaborations between enterprises, industrial parks, and different types of training institutions—both real vocational schools and vocational internment camps—ensure that former camp detainees end up working alongside other trainees. Differentiating forced internment camp labor from other forms of coercive labor is becoming an impossible task. 


READ MORE Nur Iman holds a picture of her father in front of the White House in Washington in September. I Was a Model Uighur. China Took My Family Anyway. 


The world may not be able to stop the internment, but it must at the very least prevent this oppression from turning into a profitable business scheme. This, however, will require some fundamental rethinking. The classic method for combating forced labor relies on careful audits of global supply chains. In Xinjiang, this approach runs into a severe limitation: Conducting such audits in the world’s most sophisticated digital police state is impossible. Staff who fail to provide approved answers may face internment. 


When officials found out that a Uighur worker at Huafu Fashion Co., whose Xinjiang operation is billed as the world’s largest mixed-color cotton yarn mill, had spoken to a Wall Street Journal reporter about her recruitment, they took her to a room in an adjacent restaurant. Afterward, the worker, who had previously been subjected to a government deextremification program, said: “They say it’s secret. Even speaking of it is not allowed.” Beijing spares neither effort nor money in creating Potemkin schemes for gullible outsiders. 


According to witnesses, the *government paid money to Uighur Muslims to pray in front of foreign visitors in order to showcase religious freedom*. It staged elaborate movielike street scenes where Uighurs were forced to play “civilian walking down the street” and had to memorize 50 responses to possible questions. 


The Better Cotton Initiative, the world’s largest cotton standard, which aims to promote sustainability and better working conditions, recently stated that “a continued presence and engagement in [Xinjiang] … would continue to benefit local farmers.” Similarly, Volkswagen, which operates a car plant in the region’s capital, defended its presence there as benefiting the Uighur minorities. In other cases, this might be a workable approach. Seeking to retain a presence in challenging political environments can be a laudable strategy, assuming that crucial preconditions are met. Yet present-day Xinjiang is unlike almost any other challenging political environment on the planet, and the balance of power is all in favor of the state. Whatever good might come from the Better Cotton Initiative or Volkswagen staying in Xinjiang is far outweighed by how their presence is exploited. In the case of Volkswagen, the company has not only failed to condemn the region’s atrocities; a media investigation found that it cooperates with the local People’s Armed Police forces. Yet present-day Xinjiang is unlike almost any other challenging political environment on the planet, and the balance of power is all in favor of the state. 


The Better Cotton Initiative’s continued involvement means that Chinese companies that benefit from Xinjiang’s labor policies and related subsidies can continue to operate under the initiative’s label. Reaping the benefits of oppression while posing as an ethical supplier both emboldens Beijing’s approach and justifies it to its domestic constituencies. The cotton organization is well aware of such critiques, but prefers to place the burden of proof on others. It states that there is “no direct evidence that…forced labor is being used on BCI licensed farms in Xinjiang.” After Huafu, which is not only a Better Cotton Initiative partner but sits on its council, came under scrutiny, the initiative responded by noting that Huafu had “commissioned an independent social compliance audit … [which] did not identify any instances of forced labour.” Asking for an “independent social compliance audit” in an environment as controlled as Xinjiang is like asking the fox to check that no hens are missing. My own research on Huafu comes to far more troubling conclusions. Over 90 percent of its staff are ethnic minorities, mostly “rural surplus laborers.” Huafu’s website states that “a large number of rural surplus laborers are idle at home, which … brings hidden dangers to public security.” Company reports depict hundreds of Uighurs in military uniforms at a staff training event, and a Xinjiang government website reports that Huafu is part of an official training initiative that subjects Uighurs to centralized “military drill, thought transformation … and deextremification.” 


Once employed, staff are subjected to intensive ongoing political indoctrination, including oath-swearing sessions and mandatory written reports designed to “establish correct values.” State propaganda reports note that entire families live in company dormitories; while the parents work, their children attend the Huafu preschool. 


Such close collaboration with the state’s sociopolitical goals pays handsome dividends. In 2018 alone, the company received over half a billion RMB, about $70 million, in government subsidies for training and employing minorities. Similarly, the German company Adidas audited Huafu’s spinning facilities in Aksu and found “no evidence of forced labour, or of government involvement in the hiring of their workforce.” 


However, a cursory search shows Chinese media outlets citing Peng Xianxiang, Huafu’s staff training and development manager, as openly saying that “the local government sends us workers according to [our] company’s staffing needs.” A report from the Aksu government propaganda bureau confirms that the prefecture trains and then sends Uighur workers to Huafu. Government reports indicate that in that very region, as many as 200 adults from a single village were rounded up by government work teams and “shipped off” to work at textile or other factories. 


Is Huafu involved in forced labor? At the very least, it is heavily implicated in a wider scheme of involuntary servitude, which constitutes a form of human trafficking. But the wider point is that traditional approaches of identifying specific instances of forced labor do not work for Xinjiang. In the vast majority of cases, such evidence will never be directly available. The ongoing intertwining of different forms of involuntary training and labor, and the level of control the Communist Party exerts over companies, renders such fact-finding missions even more futile. The only viable solution is to consider the entire region to be thoroughly tainted with different forms of coercive labor. This means that nothing made in whole or in part with products from Xinjiang should have any place in an ethically clean supply chain. This reality forces a fundamental rethink about business involvement in the region. 



When South Africa’s apartheid regime was in full swing, the West did not simply continue its involvement in order to somehow improve this thoroughly oppressive context. Rather, it responded with divestment and sanctions. This not only drastically reduced the profits derived from oppression but ultimately helped lead to the end of apartheid. In contrast, companies such as Muji and Uniqlo openly flaunt “Xinjiang cotton” in their product lines, while companies such as H&M continue to procure yarn from Huafu as long as it does not come from Xinjiang. H&M presumably does not know that 19 provinces and cities in eastern China are mutually paired with minority regions in Xinjiang, and that this involves extensive, state-mandated labor transfers. 



Government reports state that one county in Xinjiang alone sent 103 rural minority surplus laborers to Huafu’s factory in Anhui province. Xinjiang is a human rights crisis of global dimensions. Firms have a choice: Be complicit in it, or take a stance. Even if they are not morally motivated to act, they should start thinking about the reputational costs that come with participation in atrocity.

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## eldamar

This article is a piecd of propaganda in its own right

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## denel

Communist party is hell bent on complete destruction of Uighur muslim identity and culture all under the pretext of bogus nonsense.

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## Rafi

The Yanks are going all in for propaganda.

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## denel

eldarlmari said:


> This article is a piecd of propaganda in its own right


then what is truth. mosques are being destroyed; over a million plus people interned and no one is allowed to see.
please go away you are probably also a chinese govt troll who are all over this forum to santise the truth.
Please go and have independent people on fridays for prayers you will see entire mosques are empty which were brimming before.

https://eurasianet.org/perspectives-dispatch-from-xinjiang-friday-doesnt-happen-anymore

Friday prayers now being staged for foreign media.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/wor...jiang-new-evidence-that-china-stages-prayers/

vanishing mosques to be replaced by plazas.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/pol...ing-mosques-highlight-pressure-chinas-muslims

https://www.nst.com.my/world/2019/06/494458/wrecked-mosques-police-watch-tense-ramadan-xinjiang

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/21/world/asia/china-islam-crackdown.html

My own moslem professor friend has come back a few months ago and even he is saying how bad the situation in for moslems. He has been visiting CHina for past 18 years.

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## Beast

denel said:


> then what is truth. mosques are being destroyed; over a million plus people interned and no one is allowed to see.
> please go away you are probably also a chinese govt troll who are all over this forum to santise the truth.
> Please go and have independent people on fridays for prayers you will see entire mosques are empty which were brimming before.


Yes yes.. data from who? Pay troll by Americans. Thanks for doing the will of American and Israel for slowly destroying Muslim countries. 

Are you going to deny US never acknowledge Jerusalem as capital of Israel? Are you going to deny American support Jewish state of their settlement at expense of Palestine muslim? Maybe later u will claim actually it's China who did those evil.

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## Pakistani Fighter

Is this a lie too?
@Rafi @Beast @eldarlmari

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## Beast

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Is this a lie too?
> @Rafi @Beast @eldarlmari


It is manipulation. How can a blogger words be trusted? Is his ways of conducting video or interview fully transparent? He may have taken using careful time control and tactics. You cannot take a bloggers words for real. The orange revolution is also started by Twitter, blogger and the same typical tactics against Muslim nation like Libya, Syria and Iraq.

Let me show u one fine example

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...r-furore-alleged-poison-gas-attack-Assad.html

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## Pakistani Fighter

Beast said:


> It is manipulation. How can a blogger words be trusted? Is his ways of conducting video or interview fully transparent? He may have taken using careful time control and tactics. You cannot take a bloggers words for real. The orange revolution is also started by Twitter, blogger and the same typical tactics against Muslim nation like Libya, Syria and Iraq.


But u can clearly see mosques are locked and ppl are not allowed to pray. In one instance of the video, u can see how ppl used to pray in huge number in one mosque I believe before 2015 but now only photography is allowed

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## beijingwalker

New mosque just finished this August in rural Xinjiang built by the government as part of government rural housing programs.

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## Beast

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> But u can clearly see mosques are locked and ppl are not allowed to pray. In one instance of the video, u can see how ppl used to pray in huge number in one mosque I believe before 2015 but now only photography is allowed


That is not a mosque and you are fooled by it. @beijingwalker has earlier mentioned that is only a memorial hall not mosque. Just like typical American tactics of showing Syria kids being gas and US is quick to point out that is Assad regime who did it. Complete false accusation.

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## beijingwalker

Was the mosque in Urumqi destroyed by the Communist Party？






Uighur scholar becomes emotional when talking about US congress Xinjiang bill, saying US just *SOOOOOO... *shameless and we Xinjiang will just taunt and antagonize US with our great stability and prosperity to make US die from anger and envy ( a Chnese phrase mostly only kids and teenagers use when they lose their temper..)






Ethnic Uighur mayor of Urumqi: We condemn US with the strongest words, Xinjiang is a beautiful and safe place with zero violence for years, and Urumqi is one of the safest cities in China, welcome to Xinjiang, welcome to Urumqi, all those who have schemes to destablize Xinjiang and contain China will be doomed miserably.

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## powastick

If you are not familiar what is being played right now by the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda

Most famous one.

Fantastic emotional "witnesses". Deserve Oscar award.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony






I don't know why people keep falling for this nonsense. Its the cold war 2.0.

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## Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8

Heheheh the Muslim uyghurs were reticent to greet back walaikum assalam, because they thought they would be picked up and put in a concentration camp...around 10:15... the fear is real

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang Uighur religious leader: "Happiness is peace of mind"*

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## Pakhtoon yum

Beast said:


> Yes yes.. data from who? Pay troll by Americans. Thanks for doing the will of American and Israel for slowly destroying Muslim countries.
> 
> Are you going to deny US never acknowledge Jerusalem as capital of Israel? Are you going to deny American support Jewish state of their settlement at expense of Palestine muslim? Maybe later u will claim actually it's China who did those evil.


Why dont you let the media come and film Xinjiang then? But nooo "our country our rules" 

On one hand you argue that and on the other you blame anyone else for propaganda. Glass houses seldom last.


Long live the islamic state of East Turkestan



beijingwalker said:


> *Xinjiang Uighur religious leader: "Happiness is peace of mind"*


CGTN.....if they dont say anything the government tells them. Their families will end up in concentration camps too.



IlyasMyHero said:


> Coerced Uighur labor touches almost every part of the supply chain.
> 
> https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/12/11/cotton-china-uighur-labor-xinjiang-new-slavery/
> 
> “Employment: Yarkant County satellite factory [for] persons in detention or reeducation.” The spreadsheet, obtained from a cache of local government files, lists the employment status of nearly 2,000 Uighurs—but the 148 entries that carry this particular designation stand out like a sore thumb. Since spring 2017, the Chinese government has placed vast numbers of Turkic minorities into internment camps, which it refers to as “reeducation camps,” in the northwestern Xinjiang region. This March, it claimed that these supposed students would gradually be released into work placements. Data such as this supports this claim, but not in the way that the government is trying to sell it. Rather, it is part of a rapidly growing set of evidence for how Beijing’s long-term strategy to subdue its northwestern minorities is predicated upon a perverse and intrusive combination of coercive labor, intergenerational separation, and complete social control.
> 
> 
> In Xinjiang, state-mandated poverty alleviation goes along with different forms of involuntary labor placements. Under the banner of “industry-driven poverty alleviation,” minorities are being torn away from their own jobs and families. Just as brainwashing is masked as “job training,” forced labor is concealed behind the euphemistic facade of “poverty alleviation.” The irony of placing interned Uighurs into labor-intensive sweatshops is that many of them were extremely skilled businesspeople, intellectuals, or scientists.
> 
> 
> Several years ago, flourishing Uighur businesses abroad were severely impacted by seizures of passports, and Uighurs have been progressively forced out of eastern Chinese labor markets. While there are many Uighurs living marginal economic existences, this group are not people who need unskilled labor jobs paid at around 85 cents per hour.
> 
> 
> *But for Beijing, the real aim is not to improve Uighurs’ lives.* It is to achieve so-called social stability in its most extreme form imaginable: the state controlling the educational, work, and care placement of every family member, however old they are. But for Beijing, the real aim is not to improve Uighurs’ lives. It is to achieve so-called social stability in its most extreme form imaginable: the state controlling the educational, work, and care placement of every family member, however old they are. The first layer of the scheme is the most blatantly coercive. Under the label “vocational education and training plus,” the region is wooing mainland enterprises to train and employ internment camp detainees. Participating companies receive 1,800 RMB per camp detainee they train, and a further 5,000 RMB for each detainee they employ.
> 
> 
> Perhaps unaware that this scheme constitutes a major violation of both Chinese and international law, Xinjiang’s regional government website openly admits that this post-internment labor scheme “has attracted a large number of coastal enterprises from the mainland to invest and build factories, which has powerfully expanded employment and promoted increased incomes.” The spreadsheet from Xinjiang’s Yarkant County tells a very different story: one of shameless exploitation. Of the 148 satellite factory workers who had previously been interned, 43 had their monthly wages listed. Of these, two-thirds only earned 800 RMB per month, about $100, and the average stated wage was 1,228 RMB (about $175) a month—around the level of minimum wage in the region. The oldest person was 74 years old, and nearly half were 40 years or older.
> 
> Rather than giving young people a strong start into a profitable career, Xinjiang’s internment campaign is tearing middle-aged income earners and even retirees away from their families. The government’s own reports reveal that this practice is causing families to fall below the poverty line. But the region’s coercive labor scheme is far more encompassing than the internment drive. Hundreds of thousands of so-called rural surplus laborers are also receiving what is termed “centralized” job training in closed facilities. Two thirds of this supposed training typically consists of military drills and political indoctrination.
> 
> 
> The main difference between this training scheme and the internment camps is that its duration is shorter and fixed. Both are equally involuntary: Minority regions are assigned annual quotas for the numbers of trained surplus laborers that they must produce. Finally, Xinjiang is setting up so-called satellite factories in every other village in order to literally put every able-bodied adult to work.
> 
> 
> One propaganda account speaks of a mother of three small children, the youngest only 13 months old. The father works full time outside the village. Since these factories are equipped with nurseries that even care for infants, the mother is now also laboring full time. The goal of all this is not primarily economic. The combination of full-time work and centralized elder care and child care is to ensure family members spend more time in state-controlled settings than with each other, under constant surveillance and control.
> 
> 
> It’s important to note that it has become effectively impossible for the vast majority of Uighurs to leave Xinjiang and participate in the Chinese labor force elsewhere out of their own initiative; even the appearance of a new Uighur face in a non-Xinjiang city can spark a police investigation.
> 
> 
> These schemes operate on a continuum of coercion, and they are becoming heavily intertwined. Collaborations between enterprises, industrial parks, and different types of training institutions—both real vocational schools and vocational internment camps—ensure that former camp detainees end up working alongside other trainees. Differentiating forced internment camp labor from other forms of coercive labor is becoming an impossible task.
> 
> 
> READ MORE Nur Iman holds a picture of her father in front of the White House in Washington in September. I Was a Model Uighur. China Took My Family Anyway.
> 
> 
> The world may not be able to stop the internment, but it must at the very least prevent this oppression from turning into a profitable business scheme. This, however, will require some fundamental rethinking. The classic method for combating forced labor relies on careful audits of global supply chains. In Xinjiang, this approach runs into a severe limitation: Conducting such audits in the world’s most sophisticated digital police state is impossible. Staff who fail to provide approved answers may face internment.
> 
> 
> When officials found out that a Uighur worker at Huafu Fashion Co., whose Xinjiang operation is billed as the world’s largest mixed-color cotton yarn mill, had spoken to a Wall Street Journal reporter about her recruitment, they took her to a room in an adjacent restaurant. Afterward, the worker, who had previously been subjected to a government deextremification program, said: “They say it’s secret. Even speaking of it is not allowed.” Beijing spares neither effort nor money in creating Potemkin schemes for gullible outsiders.
> 
> 
> According to witnesses, the *government paid money to Uighur Muslims to pray in front of foreign visitors in order to showcase religious freedom*. It staged elaborate movielike street scenes where Uighurs were forced to play “civilian walking down the street” and had to memorize 50 responses to possible questions.
> 
> 
> The Better Cotton Initiative, the world’s largest cotton standard, which aims to promote sustainability and better working conditions, recently stated that “a continued presence and engagement in [Xinjiang] … would continue to benefit local farmers.” Similarly, Volkswagen, which operates a car plant in the region’s capital, defended its presence there as benefiting the Uighur minorities. In other cases, this might be a workable approach. Seeking to retain a presence in challenging political environments can be a laudable strategy, assuming that crucial preconditions are met. Yet present-day Xinjiang is unlike almost any other challenging political environment on the planet, and the balance of power is all in favor of the state. Whatever good might come from the Better Cotton Initiative or Volkswagen staying in Xinjiang is far outweighed by how their presence is exploited. In the case of Volkswagen, the company has not only failed to condemn the region’s atrocities; a media investigation found that it cooperates with the local People’s Armed Police forces. Yet present-day Xinjiang is unlike almost any other challenging political environment on the planet, and the balance of power is all in favor of the state.
> 
> 
> The Better Cotton Initiative’s continued involvement means that Chinese companies that benefit from Xinjiang’s labor policies and related subsidies can continue to operate under the initiative’s label. Reaping the benefits of oppression while posing as an ethical supplier both emboldens Beijing’s approach and justifies it to its domestic constituencies. The cotton organization is well aware of such critiques, but prefers to place the burden of proof on others. It states that there is “no direct evidence that…forced labor is being used on BCI licensed farms in Xinjiang.” After Huafu, which is not only a Better Cotton Initiative partner but sits on its council, came under scrutiny, the initiative responded by noting that Huafu had “commissioned an independent social compliance audit … [which] did not identify any instances of forced labour.” Asking for an “independent social compliance audit” in an environment as controlled as Xinjiang is like asking the fox to check that no hens are missing. My own research on Huafu comes to far more troubling conclusions. Over 90 percent of its staff are ethnic minorities, mostly “rural surplus laborers.” Huafu’s website states that “a large number of rural surplus laborers are idle at home, which … brings hidden dangers to public security.” Company reports depict hundreds of Uighurs in military uniforms at a staff training event, and a Xinjiang government website reports that Huafu is part of an official training initiative that subjects Uighurs to centralized “military drill, thought transformation … and deextremification.”
> 
> 
> Once employed, staff are subjected to intensive ongoing political indoctrination, including oath-swearing sessions and mandatory written reports designed to “establish correct values.” State propaganda reports note that entire families live in company dormitories; while the parents work, their children attend the Huafu preschool.
> 
> 
> Such close collaboration with the state’s sociopolitical goals pays handsome dividends. In 2018 alone, the company received over half a billion RMB, about $70 million, in government subsidies for training and employing minorities. Similarly, the German company Adidas audited Huafu’s spinning facilities in Aksu and found “no evidence of forced labour, or of government involvement in the hiring of their workforce.”
> 
> 
> However, a cursory search shows Chinese media outlets citing Peng Xianxiang, Huafu’s staff training and development manager, as openly saying that “the local government sends us workers according to [our] company’s staffing needs.” A report from the Aksu government propaganda bureau confirms that the prefecture trains and then sends Uighur workers to Huafu. Government reports indicate that in that very region, as many as 200 adults from a single village were rounded up by government work teams and “shipped off” to work at textile or other factories.
> 
> 
> Is Huafu involved in forced labor? At the very least, it is heavily implicated in a wider scheme of involuntary servitude, which constitutes a form of human trafficking. But the wider point is that traditional approaches of identifying specific instances of forced labor do not work for Xinjiang. In the vast majority of cases, such evidence will never be directly available. The ongoing intertwining of different forms of involuntary training and labor, and the level of control the Communist Party exerts over companies, renders such fact-finding missions even more futile. The only viable solution is to consider the entire region to be thoroughly tainted with different forms of coercive labor. This means that nothing made in whole or in part with products from Xinjiang should have any place in an ethically clean supply chain. This reality forces a fundamental rethink about business involvement in the region.
> 
> 
> 
> When South Africa’s apartheid regime was in full swing, the West did not simply continue its involvement in order to somehow improve this thoroughly oppressive context. Rather, it responded with divestment and sanctions. This not only drastically reduced the profits derived from oppression but ultimately helped lead to the end of apartheid. In contrast, companies such as Muji and Uniqlo openly flaunt “Xinjiang cotton” in their product lines, while companies such as H&M continue to procure yarn from Huafu as long as it does not come from Xinjiang. H&M presumably does not know that 19 provinces and cities in eastern China are mutually paired with minority regions in Xinjiang, and that this involves extensive, state-mandated labor transfers.
> 
> 
> 
> Government reports state that one county in Xinjiang alone sent 103 rural minority surplus laborers to Huafu’s factory in Anhui province. Xinjiang is a human rights crisis of global dimensions. Firms have a choice: Be complicit in it, or take a stance. Even if they are not morally motivated to act, they should start thinking about the reputational costs that come with participation in atrocity.


The people should start fighting back. This is what will lead to China downfall. Like always they get powerful and then thus start fuking each other over inside. Many countries will provide them money and support. This is what Imran Khan said at the UN. 

Long live the ISLAMIC STATE OF EAST TURKESTAN


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## HannibalBarca

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Is this a lie too?
> @Rafi @Beast @eldarlmari


Don't waste your time... They know what it said is true...
Check their Social Media on this subject... and you will see that they are quite happy about it...

What they are doing on PDF is just Damage control... But they are bad at it... so bad that they are going against their own gov version... Thinking people do not access their "Internet"... or can't read...

Even right now...each of them need a VPN to access PDF... and yet they are telling you that "THEIR" version is always true... they can't or don't want to see how childish of them it is to behave that way...

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## powastick

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Why dont you let the media come and film Xinjiang then? But nooo "our country our rules"
> 
> On one hand you argue that and on the other you blame anyone else for propaganda. Glass houses seldom last.
> 
> 
> Long live the islamic state of East Turkestan
> 
> 
> CGTN.....if they dont say anything the government tells them. Their families will end up in concentration camps too.


The only mistake china did is they reject Obama offer to become a "*responsible stake holder*". I guess muslim would prefer if China together with the US bringing freedom to the middle east with over 1 million dead muslim. Some muslim only brave to challenge China, because they don't dare to confront US bully.

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## HannibalBarca

powastick said:


> The only mistake china did is they reject Obama offer to become a "*responsible stake holder*". I guess muslim would prefer if China together with the US bringing freedom to the middle east with over 1 million dead muslim. Some muslim only brave to challenge China, because they don't dare to confront US bully.


Does that mean you lower your head when you pass a Proud Malaysian Muslim or are you getting all high and strong behind your screen when it comes to muslims?

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## beijingwalker

HannibalBarca said:


> Don't waste your time... They know what it said is true...
> Check their Social Media on this subject... and you will see that they are quite happy about it...
> 
> What they are doing on PDF is just Damage control... But they are bad at it... so bad that they are going against their own gov version... Thinking people do not access their "Internet"... or can't read...
> 
> Even right now...each of them need a VPN to access PDF... and yet they are telling you that "THEIR" version is always true... they can't or don't want to see how childish of them it is to behave that way...


If that's true why not even one Muslim country support US and all of them are siding with China?

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## Pakhtoon yum

powastick said:


> The only mistake china did is they reject Obama offer to become a "*responsible stake holder*". I guess muslim would prefer if China together with the US bringing freedom to the middle east with over 1 million dead muslim. Some muslim only brave to challenge China, because they don't dare to confront US bully.


Nice of you to use fallasies to support a lost argument.


Long live the ISLAMIC STATE OF EAST TURKESTAN

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## HannibalBarca

beijingwalker said:


> If that's true why not even one Muslim country support US and all of them are siding with China?


If you take pride in Those Muslim countries that are governed by Dictators as a Trophy... so be it... I mean... aren't we with those who look like us?
Those same country that either need your money to survive... or see their own ppl as "Numbers"...

I mean yeah... if that were your pride goes... so be it... at least now we know.


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## beijingwalker

HannibalBarca said:


> Does that mean you lower your head when you pass a Proud Malaysian Muslim or are you getting all high and strong behind your screen when it comes to muslims?

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## HannibalBarca

beijingwalker said:


>


Lol... he said if what is happening is the same as the genocide of Myanmar then ppl should act...
Well... then you guys can do everything "Except" Mass murder.

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## beijingwalker

*Iran condemns US’ meddling in China’s affairs*
6 December 2019 - 13:10






TEHRAN, Dec. 06 (MNA) – Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Seyyed Abbas Mousavi slammed a recent bill adopted in the US House of Representatives against China.

*“With a disgraceful record in genocide of indigenous people, black slavery and massacres of civilians, as well as the killing of Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Palestine and Yemen, and the pardoning of war criminals, America is the least qualified to comment on ethnicity, races and Muslims,” *Mousavi said on Friday.

The remark came as the US House of Representatives approved a bill that requires President Trump to toughen response to Xinjiang, where Washington claims China is holding re-education camps for Muslims. 

“Repeating such blatant violations against the principles of the international law is just stressing the fact that interfering in internal affairs of other countries has become a tenet of America’s anti-normative foreign policy,” added Mousavi.

Condemning the recent measure taken by the US Congress against China, Mousavi warned the international community against threats of such behaviors that endanger global peace and stability.

The spokesman also called on independent countries to react to uncontrolled US behavior and unilateralism.

https://en.mehrnews.com/news/153081/Iran-condemns-US-meddling-in-China-s-affairs

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## HannibalBarca

beijingwalker said:


> *Iran condemns US’ meddling in China’s affairs*
> 6 December 2019 - 13:10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TEHRAN, Dec. 06 (MNA) – Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Seyyed Abbas Mousavi slammed a recent bill adopted in the US House of Representatives against China.
> 
> *“With a disgraceful record in genocide of indigenous people, black slavery and massacres of civilians, as well as the killing of Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Palestine and Yemen, and the pardoning of war criminals, America is the least qualified to comment on ethnicity, races and Muslims,” *Mousavi said on Friday.
> 
> The remark came as the US House of Representatives approved a bill that requires President Trump to toughen response to Xinjiang, where Washington claims China is holding re-education camps for Muslims.
> 
> “Repeating such blatant violations against the principles of the international law is just stressing the fact that interfering in internal affairs of other countries has become a tenet of America’s anti-normative foreign policy,” added Mousavi.
> 
> Condemning the recent measure taken by the US Congress against China, Mousavi warned the international community against threats of such behaviors that endanger global peace and stability.
> 
> The spokesman also called on independent countries to react to uncontrolled US behavior and unilateralism.
> 
> https://en.mehrnews.com/news/153081/Iran-condemns-US-meddling-in-China-s-affairs



See the only support you can find is either Dictatorship or ppl leaving under your money...

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## powastick

HannibalBarca said:


> If you take pride in Those Muslim countries that are governed by Dictators as a Trophy... so be it... I mean... aren't we with those who look like us?
> Those same country that either need your money to survive... or see their own ppl as "Numbers"...
> 
> I mean yeah... if that were your pride goes... so be it... at least now we know.


Nothing wrong with dictators when you can't even buy a loaf bread and your bread is at the mercy of your invaders. So much freedom in the middle east, its the survival of the fittest. Instead of freedom, you guys became animals. You don't deserve to lecture me about "caring about the people".

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## beijingwalker

HannibalBarca said:


> See the only support you can find is either Dictatorship or ppl leaving under your money...


So all Muslim countries are dictatorship or taking China's money? How come not even one single Muslim country support US over Xinjiang, not even one... just incredble..

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## HannibalBarca

beijingwalker said:


> So all Muslim countries are dictatorship or taking China's money? How come not even one single Muslim country support US over Xinjiang, not even one... just incredble..


Go ahead give me an Official List of MUSLIM countries that said Concentration camps is a hoax...go.
And let's analyse each Country Regime...



powastick said:


> Nothing wrong with dictators when you can't even buy a loaf bread and your bread is at the mercy of your invaders. So much freedom in the middle east, its the survival of the fittest. Instead of freedom, you guys became animals. You don't deserve to lecture me about "caring about the people".


See... Dictator apologist... and then having the audacity to speak about "Rights"...
Take that L and move on.


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## powastick

HannibalBarca said:


> Go ahead give me an Official List of MUSLIM countries that said Concentration camps is a hoax...go.
> And let's analyse each Country Regime...
> 
> 
> See... Dictator apologist... and then having the audacity to speak about "Rights"...
> Take that L and move on.


Yup, China should have to join forces with the US to spread "FREEDOM" in the middle east. LMAO Khassogi. I guess he didn't have rights. My bad, its the Saudi King have the rights to chop him to pieces. Those who support the US have rights, those who don't, don't have rights.

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## HannibalBarca

powastick said:


> Yup, China should have to join forces with the US to spread "FREEDOM" in the middle east. LMAO Khassogi. I guess he didn't have rights. My bad, its the Saudi King have the rights to chop him to pieces. Those who support the US have rights, those who don't, don't have rights.


But according to CHINA... KSA support them on this Uighur matter... So does that mean...Wait... ARE YOU SAYING CHINA is with those who can chop heads? is that Blasphemy?
Did you just Insult China?


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## beijingwalker

HannibalBarca said:


> Go ahead give me an Official List of MUSLIM countries that said Concentration camps is a hoax...go.
> .


Many signed a letter to support China in UN, you can google and find the list. Give me one , just one single Muslim country supports US over Xinjiang and signed their letter against China in UN, can you? just one is ok.



HannibalBarca said:


> But according to CHINA... KSA support them on this Uighur matter... So does that mean...Wait... ARE YOU SAYING CHINA is with those who can chop heads? is that Blasphemy?
> Did you just Insult China?



How about Xinjiang's biggest neighbor,the most culturallly and ethnically linked country, Kazakhstan.

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## powastick

HannibalBarca said:


> But according to CHINA... KSA support them on this Uighur matter... So does that mean...Wait... ARE YOU SAYING CHINA is with those who can chop heads? is that Blasphemy?
> Did you just Insult China?


Nope, you just prove you are hypocritical just like the US. Rights are only for those who support so call "freeworld".

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## HannibalBarca

powastick said:


> Nope, you just prove you are hypocritical just like the US. Rights are only for those who support so call "freeworld".


Look... that's what we call "Checkmate"...
Read...Read...and Read...
The US and China are both wrong... Both play by the same rule and act by the same needs... They are both a side of the same coin... Same goes for the majority of states on this planet...

Now what? you will be the same Hypocrite that you point fingers at or will you prefer running/denying?


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## ZeEa5KPul

Yeah, China has enslaved the Uighurs. What are you going to do about it? Why don't you ask your Allah to help them?
Why doesn't Allah help them? Is he too weak? Or does he love China?

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## Götterdämmerung

HannibalBarca said:


> See the only support you can find is either Dictatorship or ppl leaving under your money...



Saudi Arabia, the beacon of Muslim democracy

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## beijingwalker

HannibalBarca said:


> Look... that's what we call "Checkmate"...
> Read...Read...and Read...
> The US and China are both wrong... Both play by the same rule and act by the same needs... They are both a side of the same coin... Same goes for the majority of states on this planet...
> 
> Now what? you will be the same Hypocrite that you point fingers at or will you prefer running/denying?


What you say means nothing, find a Muslim governmemt say it, can you?

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## HannibalBarca

Götterdämmerung said:


> Saudi Arabia, the beacon of Muslim democracy


Only a brainless chicken will make such statement... wait? oups... sry...



beijingwalker said:


> What you say means nothing, find a Muslim governmemt say it, can you?


I'm waiting on your Muslim country list that say those camps are a hoax...
That way we can check what sort of regime they've got and therefore we could see if they represent themselves of their people...
And finally we can put forward what type of regime China is willing to bet their "truth" upon...

I mean you said... ALL of them do... so... let's do it.


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## Rafi

Don't trust the propaganda. Nuff said.


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## beijingwalker

HannibalBarca said:


> I'm waiting on your Muslim country list that say those camps are a hoax...
> That way we can check what sort of regime they've got and therefore we could see if they represent themselves of their people...
> And finally we can put forward what type of regime China is willing to bet their "truth" upon...
> 
> I mean you said... ALL of them do... so... let's do it.


I said no Muslim countries support US and many signed a letter to support China over Xinjiang. As for the small details like whether those facilites are schools or camps, at least they believe it's the right thing to do that's why they support China otherwise they will be on US side, but they are not, they are on China's side, can you find even one Muslim country that is on US side over Xinjiang issue?

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## HannibalBarca

beijingwalker said:


> I said no Muslim countries support US and many signed a letter to support China over Xinjiang. As for the small details like whether those facilites are schools or camps, at least they believe it's the right thing to do that's why they support China otherwise they will be on US side, but they are not, they are on China's side, can you find even one Muslim country that is on US side over Xinjiang issue?



Still waiting for that list... just give it... and then we can see the legitimacy of their regime and whatever they are truthful or not...simple as that...
I mean what is the point on arboring countries that are deemed untruthful... it's like asking the Biggest liar on earth to speak the truth... and then taking him as a "truthful" witness/friend/ally...


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## beijingwalker

HannibalBarca said:


> Still waiting for that list... just give it... and then we can see the legitimacy of their regime and whatever they are truthful or not...simple as that...
> I mean what is the point on arboring countries that are deemed untruthful... it's like asking a liar to speak the truth...


What list? they all support China, is that enough? that's enough for us at least.

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## ZeEa5KPul

beijingwalker said:


> I said no Muslim countries support US and many signed a letter to support China over Xinjiang. As for the small details like whether those facilites are schools or camps, at least they believe it's the right thing to do that's why they support China otherwise they will be on US side, but they are not, they are on China's side, can you find even one Muslim country that is on US side over Xinjiang issue?


Why are you wasting breath on this idiot? Whatever China's doing or not doing to the Uighurs, there's nothing he or his kind can do about it. He's just a barking dog.

@HannibalBarca this righteous humiliation and degradation of the Uighurs calls to mind a _hadith_: My provision has been placed under the shadow of my spear, *and abasement and humiliation have been placed on the one who disobeys my command*.

See, Xi Jinping is just like the "prophet" Mohammed - abasement and humiliation have been placed on those who disobey his command. The Uighurs are going to broken down, built back up, and then broken down again until they proclaim that there is no god but China and Xi is its Messenger.

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## HannibalBarca

beijingwalker said:


> What list? they all support China, is that enough? that's enough for us at least.


So no list... anyway... you understand and you know yourself that this "Muslim" list is just a way to say "Look Those Muslims say it's good then you guys shall believe us now"... it's like saying "I' not racist... because I have a Black friend" or that "I don't hate Asian ppl because I eat sushi..."

and look at this one comment under... He is doing my job for me...


ZeEa5KPul said:


> Why are you wasting breath on this idiot? Whatever China's doing or not doing to the Uighurs, there's nothing he or his kind can do about it. He's just a barking dog.
> 
> @HannibalBarca this righteous humiliation and degradation of the Uighurs calls to mind a _hadith_: My provision has been placed under the shadow of my spear, *and abasement and humiliation have been placed on the one who disobeys my command*.
> 
> See, Xi Jinping is just like the "prophet" Mohammed - abasement and humiliation have been placed on those who disobey his command. The Uighurs are going to broken down, built back up, and then broken down again until they proclaim that there is no god but China and Xi is its Messenger.


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## beijingwalker

HannibalBarca said:


> Still waiting for that list... just give it... and then we can see the legitimacy of their regime and whatever they are truthful or not...simple as that...


I don't know what list you are talking about, for me I only care if they support us, they all do, that's enough for us, you can keep whatever lists you want, but can you find one Muslim country that supports US over Xinjiang?

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

IlyasMyHero said:


> Coerced Uighur labor touches almost every part of the supply chain.
> 
> https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/12/11/cotton-china-uighur-labor-xinjiang-new-slavery/
> 
> “Employment: Yarkant County satellite factory [for] persons in detention or reeducation.” The spreadsheet, obtained from a cache of local government files, lists the employment status of nearly 2,000 Uighurs—but the 148 entries that carry this particular designation stand out like a sore thumb. Since spring 2017, the Chinese government has placed vast numbers of Turkic minorities into internment camps, which it refers to as “reeducation camps,” in the northwestern Xinjiang region. This March, it claimed that these supposed students would gradually be released into work placements. Data such as this supports this claim, but not in the way that the government is trying to sell it. Rather, it is part of a rapidly growing set of evidence for how Beijing’s long-term strategy to subdue its northwestern minorities is predicated upon a perverse and intrusive combination of coercive labor, intergenerational separation, and complete social control.
> 
> 
> In Xinjiang, state-mandated poverty alleviation goes along with different forms of involuntary labor placements. Under the banner of “industry-driven poverty alleviation,” minorities are being torn away from their own jobs and families. Just as brainwashing is masked as “job training,” forced labor is concealed behind the euphemistic facade of “poverty alleviation.” The irony of placing interned Uighurs into labor-intensive sweatshops is that many of them were extremely skilled businesspeople, intellectuals, or scientists.
> 
> 
> Several years ago, flourishing Uighur businesses abroad were severely impacted by seizures of passports, and Uighurs have been progressively forced out of eastern Chinese labor markets. While there are many Uighurs living marginal economic existences, this group are not people who need unskilled labor jobs paid at around 85 cents per hour.
> 
> 
> *But for Beijing, the real aim is not to improve Uighurs’ lives.* It is to achieve so-called social stability in its most extreme form imaginable: the state controlling the educational, work, and care placement of every family member, however old they are. But for Beijing, the real aim is not to improve Uighurs’ lives. It is to achieve so-called social stability in its most extreme form imaginable: the state controlling the educational, work, and care placement of every family member, however old they are. The first layer of the scheme is the most blatantly coercive. Under the label “vocational education and training plus,” the region is wooing mainland enterprises to train and employ internment camp detainees. Participating companies receive 1,800 RMB per camp detainee they train, and a further 5,000 RMB for each detainee they employ.
> 
> 
> Perhaps unaware that this scheme constitutes a major violation of both Chinese and international law, Xinjiang’s regional government website openly admits that this post-internment labor scheme “has attracted a large number of coastal enterprises from the mainland to invest and build factories, which has powerfully expanded employment and promoted increased incomes.” The spreadsheet from Xinjiang’s Yarkant County tells a very different story: one of shameless exploitation. Of the 148 satellite factory workers who had previously been interned, 43 had their monthly wages listed. Of these, two-thirds only earned 800 RMB per month, about $100, and the average stated wage was 1,228 RMB (about $175) a month—around the level of minimum wage in the region. The oldest person was 74 years old, and nearly half were 40 years or older.
> 
> Rather than giving young people a strong start into a profitable career, Xinjiang’s internment campaign is tearing middle-aged income earners and even retirees away from their families. The government’s own reports reveal that this practice is causing families to fall below the poverty line. But the region’s coercive labor scheme is far more encompassing than the internment drive. Hundreds of thousands of so-called rural surplus laborers are also receiving what is termed “centralized” job training in closed facilities. Two thirds of this supposed training typically consists of military drills and political indoctrination.
> 
> 
> The main difference between this training scheme and the internment camps is that its duration is shorter and fixed. Both are equally involuntary: Minority regions are assigned annual quotas for the numbers of trained surplus laborers that they must produce. Finally, Xinjiang is setting up so-called satellite factories in every other village in order to literally put every able-bodied adult to work.
> 
> 
> One propaganda account speaks of a mother of three small children, the youngest only 13 months old. The father works full time outside the village. Since these factories are equipped with nurseries that even care for infants, the mother is now also laboring full time. The goal of all this is not primarily economic. The combination of full-time work and centralized elder care and child care is to ensure family members spend more time in state-controlled settings than with each other, under constant surveillance and control.
> 
> 
> It’s important to note that it has become effectively impossible for the vast majority of Uighurs to leave Xinjiang and participate in the Chinese labor force elsewhere out of their own initiative; even the appearance of a new Uighur face in a non-Xinjiang city can spark a police investigation.
> 
> 
> These schemes operate on a continuum of coercion, and they are becoming heavily intertwined. Collaborations between enterprises, industrial parks, and different types of training institutions—both real vocational schools and vocational internment camps—ensure that former camp detainees end up working alongside other trainees. Differentiating forced internment camp labor from other forms of coercive labor is becoming an impossible task.
> 
> 
> READ MORE Nur Iman holds a picture of her father in front of the White House in Washington in September. I Was a Model Uighur. China Took My Family Anyway.
> 
> 
> The world may not be able to stop the internment, but it must at the very least prevent this oppression from turning into a profitable business scheme. This, however, will require some fundamental rethinking. The classic method for combating forced labor relies on careful audits of global supply chains. In Xinjiang, this approach runs into a severe limitation: Conducting such audits in the world’s most sophisticated digital police state is impossible. Staff who fail to provide approved answers may face internment.
> 
> 
> When officials found out that a Uighur worker at Huafu Fashion Co., whose Xinjiang operation is billed as the world’s largest mixed-color cotton yarn mill, had spoken to a Wall Street Journal reporter about her recruitment, they took her to a room in an adjacent restaurant. Afterward, the worker, who had previously been subjected to a government deextremification program, said: “They say it’s secret. Even speaking of it is not allowed.” Beijing spares neither effort nor money in creating Potemkin schemes for gullible outsiders.
> 
> 
> According to witnesses, the *government paid money to Uighur Muslims to pray in front of foreign visitors in order to showcase religious freedom*. It staged elaborate movielike street scenes where Uighurs were forced to play “civilian walking down the street” and had to memorize 50 responses to possible questions.
> 
> 
> The Better Cotton Initiative, the world’s largest cotton standard, which aims to promote sustainability and better working conditions, recently stated that “a continued presence and engagement in [Xinjiang] … would continue to benefit local farmers.” Similarly, Volkswagen, which operates a car plant in the region’s capital, defended its presence there as benefiting the Uighur minorities. In other cases, this might be a workable approach. Seeking to retain a presence in challenging political environments can be a laudable strategy, assuming that crucial preconditions are met. Yet present-day Xinjiang is unlike almost any other challenging political environment on the planet, and the balance of power is all in favor of the state. Whatever good might come from the Better Cotton Initiative or Volkswagen staying in Xinjiang is far outweighed by how their presence is exploited. In the case of Volkswagen, the company has not only failed to condemn the region’s atrocities; a media investigation found that it cooperates with the local People’s Armed Police forces. Yet present-day Xinjiang is unlike almost any other challenging political environment on the planet, and the balance of power is all in favor of the state.
> 
> 
> The Better Cotton Initiative’s continued involvement means that Chinese companies that benefit from Xinjiang’s labor policies and related subsidies can continue to operate under the initiative’s label. Reaping the benefits of oppression while posing as an ethical supplier both emboldens Beijing’s approach and justifies it to its domestic constituencies. The cotton organization is well aware of such critiques, but prefers to place the burden of proof on others. It states that there is “no direct evidence that…forced labor is being used on BCI licensed farms in Xinjiang.” After Huafu, which is not only a Better Cotton Initiative partner but sits on its council, came under scrutiny, the initiative responded by noting that Huafu had “commissioned an independent social compliance audit … [which] did not identify any instances of forced labour.” Asking for an “independent social compliance audit” in an environment as controlled as Xinjiang is like asking the fox to check that no hens are missing. My own research on Huafu comes to far more troubling conclusions. Over 90 percent of its staff are ethnic minorities, mostly “rural surplus laborers.” Huafu’s website states that “a large number of rural surplus laborers are idle at home, which … brings hidden dangers to public security.” Company reports depict hundreds of Uighurs in military uniforms at a staff training event, and a Xinjiang government website reports that Huafu is part of an official training initiative that subjects Uighurs to centralized “military drill, thought transformation … and deextremification.”
> 
> 
> Once employed, staff are subjected to intensive ongoing political indoctrination, including oath-swearing sessions and mandatory written reports designed to “establish correct values.” State propaganda reports note that entire families live in company dormitories; while the parents work, their children attend the Huafu preschool.
> 
> 
> Such close collaboration with the state’s sociopolitical goals pays handsome dividends. In 2018 alone, the company received over half a billion RMB, about $70 million, in government subsidies for training and employing minorities. Similarly, the German company Adidas audited Huafu’s spinning facilities in Aksu and found “no evidence of forced labour, or of government involvement in the hiring of their workforce.”
> 
> 
> However, a cursory search shows Chinese media outlets citing Peng Xianxiang, Huafu’s staff training and development manager, as openly saying that “the local government sends us workers according to [our] company’s staffing needs.” A report from the Aksu government propaganda bureau confirms that the prefecture trains and then sends Uighur workers to Huafu. Government reports indicate that in that very region, as many as 200 adults from a single village were rounded up by government work teams and “shipped off” to work at textile or other factories.
> 
> 
> Is Huafu involved in forced labor? At the very least, it is heavily implicated in a wider scheme of involuntary servitude, which constitutes a form of human trafficking. But the wider point is that traditional approaches of identifying specific instances of forced labor do not work for Xinjiang. In the vast majority of cases, such evidence will never be directly available. The ongoing intertwining of different forms of involuntary training and labor, and the level of control the Communist Party exerts over companies, renders such fact-finding missions even more futile. The only viable solution is to consider the entire region to be thoroughly tainted with different forms of coercive labor. This means that nothing made in whole or in part with products from Xinjiang should have any place in an ethically clean supply chain. This reality forces a fundamental rethink about business involvement in the region.
> 
> 
> 
> When South Africa’s apartheid regime was in full swing, the West did not simply continue its involvement in order to somehow improve this thoroughly oppressive context. Rather, it responded with divestment and sanctions. This not only drastically reduced the profits derived from oppression but ultimately helped lead to the end of apartheid. In contrast, companies such as Muji and Uniqlo openly flaunt “Xinjiang cotton” in their product lines, while companies such as H&M continue to procure yarn from Huafu as long as it does not come from Xinjiang. H&M presumably does not know that 19 provinces and cities in eastern China are mutually paired with minority regions in Xinjiang, and that this involves extensive, state-mandated labor transfers.
> 
> 
> 
> Government reports state that one county in Xinjiang alone sent 103 rural minority surplus laborers to Huafu’s factory in Anhui province. Xinjiang is a human rights crisis of global dimensions. Firms have a choice: Be complicit in it, or take a stance. Even if they are not morally motivated to act, they should start thinking about the reputational costs that come with participation in atrocity.







FAKE NEWS!..........The source for the above article is american. It is from the same source which proclaimed that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins. Propaganda that resulted in the wanton destruction of Iraq and the deaths of millions of Iraqis. BEWARE the dangers of FAKE NEWS!

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## HannibalBarca

ZeEa5KPul said:


> What's your job, exactly? Aren't you supposed to be defending the faith and bringing glory to Islam? Why are you living in a kafir country like France? Is France where the word of Allah holds sway?
> You know, at least the terrorists live up to their prophet's example: "My provision has been placed under the shadow of my spear." The rest of you so-called Muslims are just p*ssies. China is crushing the Uighurs and Xi is on a holy and righteous historical mission to eradicate Islam and the rest of the Abrahamic filth from China - where are you? Where is your Allah? Where are the shadows of your spears?



Insult to Islam and Muslims and much more...@The Eagle @Dubious
Not the First time... not the Last.

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## fisher1

HannibalBarca said:


> Insult to Islam and Muslims and much more...@The Eagle @Dubious
> Not the First time... not the Last.



Bro, what makes me really sad and angry is that surely, the Uighers are forced to hear these and they can't do anything about it.

Many of the members here try to hold their Islam hatred back but you can still tell what exactly they think of Islam and Uighurs and how happy they are about it. This is fun to them. 

And this is over Internet. My God, what will these people be doing and saying to helpless Uighurs in real life. Makes my blood boil.

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## eldamar

IlyasMyHero said:


> Bro, what makes me really sad and angry is that surely, the Uighers are forced to hear these and they can't do anything about it.
> 
> Many of the members here try to hold their Islam hatred back but you can still tell what exactly they think of Islam and Uighurs and how happy they are about it. This is fun to them.
> 
> And this is over Internet. My God, what will these people be doing and saying to helpless Uighurs in real life. Makes my blood boil.


Your blood should be boiling over people who r murdering innocent Muslims.

Pathologically-stupid people are incapable of seeing their own stupidity.

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## -blitzkrieg-

Rafi said:


> The Yanks are going all in for propaganda.



And the idiots here are buying it..

In a recent meeting with a few friends the Uygur issue came up and i got awkward looks when i told them the issue is exaggerated by media and that this is their govt.'s way of exercising restraint following terrorist attacks in Western China since 90s. 


We know all these developed nations use way arounds to bypass their commitments to Habeas corpus something they only started practicing since last century.What are Black sites? and why US use other nations for their unlawful detentions?remember guantanamo? Does western media raise the question?
I believe China should seal their eastern borders and monitor them.Secondly they should try not to depute islamophobics in that region ..China has its own fair share of Islamophobics just like rest of the western world.Have some degree of leniency in regards to the folks there who want to serve the govt. and practice religion at the same time, this will only strengthen the govt. There were similar problems in Turkey lately however they resolved them by their inclusiveness.
As a neighbor we get affected by whatever happens in Western China.Now due to this child policy thing,Uygur women have been flocking into Pakistan to get married and have more kids.
The ethnic rift in XingJiang is a much bigger challenge than the religious one.However Daeesh will use even that to find refuge in a population that feels their culture will be lost among Hans in near future.

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## beijingwalker

IlyasMyHero said:


> Bro, what makes me really sad and angry is that surely, the Uighers are forced to hear these and they can't do anything about it.
> 
> Many of the members here try to hold their Islam hatred back but you can still tell what exactly they think of Islam and Uighurs and how happy they are about it. This is fun to them.
> 
> And this is over Internet. My God, what will these people be doing and saying to helpless Uighurs in real life. Makes my blood boil.


Your victim mentality is what's holding you back, we see all humans are the same, regardless of their religions and ethnic backgrounds in China and that's what we had been taught since day one in our schools.

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## dani92

Just garbage propaganda to use some Muslim donkeys against China. Don’t you notice that the people who push for this issue are the Zionist neocon Protestants who hate Muslims to death?!

Notice these scumbags are concerned about the Muslims in Russia and China but not in Palestine or Kashmir or any western ally country?! Wonder why I think you already know the answer

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Your victim mentality is what's holding you back, we see all humans are the same, regardless of their religions and ethnic backgrounds in China and that's what we had been taught since day one in our schools.



LOL

Did you laugh a little when you said that? Surely, you can't say that with a straight face.


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## beijingwalker

IlyasMyHero said:


> LOL
> 
> Did you laugh a little when you said that? Surely, you can't say that with a straight face.


I surely believe this, do you?


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

IlyasMyHero said:


> LOL
> 
> Did you laugh a little when you said that? Surely, you can't say that with a straight face.





Do you also believe that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins?

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## Sehnsucht

beijingwalker said:


> I surely believe this, do you?


You have been taught propaganda since you were born so of course, you'll believe this with firm conviction. 
You know no truth except what CCP tells you.
Many hypocrite posters who cry for support for Kashmir, are the same ones who are turning blind eye towards our Uyghur brethren.The irony!



eldarlmari said:


> Your blood should be boiling over people who r murdering innocent Muslims.


His blood IS boiling over people who are murdering innocent Muslims.That's why he's speaking out against CCP atrocities in Xinjiang 



eldarlmari said:


> Pathologically-stupid people are incapable of seeing their own stupidity.


Right back at you.

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## God Parshuram

IlyasMyHero said:


> Coerced Uighur labor touches almost every part of the supply chain.
> 
> https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/12/11/cotton-china-uighur-labor-xinjiang-new-slavery/
> 
> “Employment: Yarkant County satellite factory [for] persons in detention or reeducation.” The spreadsheet, obtained from a cache of local government files, lists the employment status of nearly 2,000 Uighurs—but the 148 entries that carry this particular designation stand out like a sore thumb. Since spring 2017, the Chinese government has placed vast numbers of Turkic minorities into internment camps, which it refers to as “reeducation camps,” in the northwestern Xinjiang region. This March, it claimed that these supposed students would gradually be released into work placements. Data such as this supports this claim, but not in the way that the government is trying to sell it. Rather, it is part of a rapidly growing set of evidence for how Beijing’s long-term strategy to subdue its northwestern minorities is predicated upon a perverse and intrusive combination of coercive labor, intergenerational separation, and complete social control.
> 
> 
> In Xinjiang, state-mandated poverty alleviation goes along with different forms of involuntary labor placements. Under the banner of “industry-driven poverty alleviation,” minorities are being torn away from their own jobs and families. Just as brainwashing is masked as “job training,” forced labor is concealed behind the euphemistic facade of “poverty alleviation.” The irony of placing interned Uighurs into labor-intensive sweatshops is that many of them were extremely skilled businesspeople, intellectuals, or scientists.
> 
> 
> Several years ago, flourishing Uighur businesses abroad were severely impacted by seizures of passports, and Uighurs have been progressively forced out of eastern Chinese labor markets. While there are many Uighurs living marginal economic existences, this group are not people who need unskilled labor jobs paid at around 85 cents per hour.
> 
> 
> *But for Beijing, the real aim is not to improve Uighurs’ lives.* It is to achieve so-called social stability in its most extreme form imaginable: the state controlling the educational, work, and care placement of every family member, however old they are. But for Beijing, the real aim is not to improve Uighurs’ lives. It is to achieve so-called social stability in its most extreme form imaginable: the state controlling the educational, work, and care placement of every family member, however old they are. The first layer of the scheme is the most blatantly coercive. Under the label “vocational education and training plus,” the region is wooing mainland enterprises to train and employ internment camp detainees. Participating companies receive 1,800 RMB per camp detainee they train, and a further 5,000 RMB for each detainee they employ.
> 
> 
> Perhaps unaware that this scheme constitutes a major violation of both Chinese and international law, Xinjiang’s regional government website openly admits that this post-internment labor scheme “has attracted a large number of coastal enterprises from the mainland to invest and build factories, which has powerfully expanded employment and promoted increased incomes.” The spreadsheet from Xinjiang’s Yarkant County tells a very different story: one of shameless exploitation. Of the 148 satellite factory workers who had previously been interned, 43 had their monthly wages listed. Of these, two-thirds only earned 800 RMB per month, about $100, and the average stated wage was 1,228 RMB (about $175) a month—around the level of minimum wage in the region. The oldest person was 74 years old, and nearly half were 40 years or older.
> 
> Rather than giving young people a strong start into a profitable career, Xinjiang’s internment campaign is tearing middle-aged income earners and even retirees away from their families. The government’s own reports reveal that this practice is causing families to fall below the poverty line. But the region’s coercive labor scheme is far more encompassing than the internment drive. Hundreds of thousands of so-called rural surplus laborers are also receiving what is termed “centralized” job training in closed facilities. Two thirds of this supposed training typically consists of military drills and political indoctrination.
> 
> 
> The main difference between this training scheme and the internment camps is that its duration is shorter and fixed. Both are equally involuntary: Minority regions are assigned annual quotas for the numbers of trained surplus laborers that they must produce. Finally, Xinjiang is setting up so-called satellite factories in every other village in order to literally put every able-bodied adult to work.
> 
> 
> One propaganda account speaks of a mother of three small children, the youngest only 13 months old. The father works full time outside the village. Since these factories are equipped with nurseries that even care for infants, the mother is now also laboring full time. The goal of all this is not primarily economic. The combination of full-time work and centralized elder care and child care is to ensure family members spend more time in state-controlled settings than with each other, under constant surveillance and control.
> 
> 
> It’s important to note that it has become effectively impossible for the vast majority of Uighurs to leave Xinjiang and participate in the Chinese labor force elsewhere out of their own initiative; even the appearance of a new Uighur face in a non-Xinjiang city can spark a police investigation.
> 
> 
> These schemes operate on a continuum of coercion, and they are becoming heavily intertwined. Collaborations between enterprises, industrial parks, and different types of training institutions—both real vocational schools and vocational internment camps—ensure that former camp detainees end up working alongside other trainees. Differentiating forced internment camp labor from other forms of coercive labor is becoming an impossible task.
> 
> 
> READ MORE Nur Iman holds a picture of her father in front of the White House in Washington in September. I Was a Model Uighur. China Took My Family Anyway.
> 
> 
> The world may not be able to stop the internment, but it must at the very least prevent this oppression from turning into a profitable business scheme. This, however, will require some fundamental rethinking. The classic method for combating forced labor relies on careful audits of global supply chains. In Xinjiang, this approach runs into a severe limitation: Conducting such audits in the world’s most sophisticated digital police state is impossible. Staff who fail to provide approved answers may face internment.
> 
> 
> When officials found out that a Uighur worker at Huafu Fashion Co., whose Xinjiang operation is billed as the world’s largest mixed-color cotton yarn mill, had spoken to a Wall Street Journal reporter about her recruitment, they took her to a room in an adjacent restaurant. Afterward, the worker, who had previously been subjected to a government deextremification program, said: “They say it’s secret. Even speaking of it is not allowed.” Beijing spares neither effort nor money in creating Potemkin schemes for gullible outsiders.
> 
> 
> According to witnesses, the *government paid money to Uighur Muslims to pray in front of foreign visitors in order to showcase religious freedom*. It staged elaborate movielike street scenes where Uighurs were forced to play “civilian walking down the street” and had to memorize 50 responses to possible questions.
> 
> 
> The Better Cotton Initiative, the world’s largest cotton standard, which aims to promote sustainability and better working conditions, recently stated that “a continued presence and engagement in [Xinjiang] … would continue to benefit local farmers.” Similarly, Volkswagen, which operates a car plant in the region’s capital, defended its presence there as benefiting the Uighur minorities. In other cases, this might be a workable approach. Seeking to retain a presence in challenging political environments can be a laudable strategy, assuming that crucial preconditions are met. Yet present-day Xinjiang is unlike almost any other challenging political environment on the planet, and the balance of power is all in favor of the state. Whatever good might come from the Better Cotton Initiative or Volkswagen staying in Xinjiang is far outweighed by how their presence is exploited. In the case of Volkswagen, the company has not only failed to condemn the region’s atrocities; a media investigation found that it cooperates with the local People’s Armed Police forces. Yet present-day Xinjiang is unlike almost any other challenging political environment on the planet, and the balance of power is all in favor of the state.
> 
> 
> The Better Cotton Initiative’s continued involvement means that Chinese companies that benefit from Xinjiang’s labor policies and related subsidies can continue to operate under the initiative’s label. Reaping the benefits of oppression while posing as an ethical supplier both emboldens Beijing’s approach and justifies it to its domestic constituencies. The cotton organization is well aware of such critiques, but prefers to place the burden of proof on others. It states that there is “no direct evidence that…forced labor is being used on BCI licensed farms in Xinjiang.” After Huafu, which is not only a Better Cotton Initiative partner but sits on its council, came under scrutiny, the initiative responded by noting that Huafu had “commissioned an independent social compliance audit … [which] did not identify any instances of forced labour.” Asking for an “independent social compliance audit” in an environment as controlled as Xinjiang is like asking the fox to check that no hens are missing. My own research on Huafu comes to far more troubling conclusions. Over 90 percent of its staff are ethnic minorities, mostly “rural surplus laborers.” Huafu’s website states that “a large number of rural surplus laborers are idle at home, which … brings hidden dangers to public security.” Company reports depict hundreds of Uighurs in military uniforms at a staff training event, and a Xinjiang government website reports that Huafu is part of an official training initiative that subjects Uighurs to centralized “military drill, thought transformation … and deextremification.”
> 
> 
> Once employed, staff are subjected to intensive ongoing political indoctrination, including oath-swearing sessions and mandatory written reports designed to “establish correct values.” State propaganda reports note that entire families live in company dormitories; while the parents work, their children attend the Huafu preschool.
> 
> 
> Such close collaboration with the state’s sociopolitical goals pays handsome dividends. In 2018 alone, the company received over half a billion RMB, about $70 million, in government subsidies for training and employing minorities. Similarly, the German company Adidas audited Huafu’s spinning facilities in Aksu and found “no evidence of forced labour, or of government involvement in the hiring of their workforce.”
> 
> 
> However, a cursory search shows Chinese media outlets citing Peng Xianxiang, Huafu’s staff training and development manager, as openly saying that “the local government sends us workers according to [our] company’s staffing needs.” A report from the Aksu government propaganda bureau confirms that the prefecture trains and then sends Uighur workers to Huafu. Government reports indicate that in that very region, as many as 200 adults from a single village were rounded up by government work teams and “shipped off” to work at textile or other factories.
> 
> 
> Is Huafu involved in forced labor? At the very least, it is heavily implicated in a wider scheme of involuntary servitude, which constitutes a form of human trafficking. But the wider point is that traditional approaches of identifying specific instances of forced labor do not work for Xinjiang. In the vast majority of cases, such evidence will never be directly available. The ongoing intertwining of different forms of involuntary training and labor, and the level of control the Communist Party exerts over companies, renders such fact-finding missions even more futile. The only viable solution is to consider the entire region to be thoroughly tainted with different forms of coercive labor. This means that nothing made in whole or in part with products from Xinjiang should have any place in an ethically clean supply chain. This reality forces a fundamental rethink about business involvement in the region.
> 
> 
> 
> When South Africa’s apartheid regime was in full swing, the West did not simply continue its involvement in order to somehow improve this thoroughly oppressive context. Rather, it responded with divestment and sanctions. This not only drastically reduced the profits derived from oppression but ultimately helped lead to the end of apartheid. In contrast, companies such as Muji and Uniqlo openly flaunt “Xinjiang cotton” in their product lines, while companies such as H&M continue to procure yarn from Huafu as long as it does not come from Xinjiang. H&M presumably does not know that 19 provinces and cities in eastern China are mutually paired with minority regions in Xinjiang, and that this involves extensive, state-mandated labor transfers.
> 
> 
> 
> Government reports state that one county in Xinjiang alone sent 103 rural minority surplus laborers to Huafu’s factory in Anhui province. Xinjiang is a human rights crisis of global dimensions. Firms have a choice: Be complicit in it, or take a stance. Even if they are not morally motivated to act, they should start thinking about the reputational costs that come with participation in atrocity.


China is doing what it is best at. People should not expect anything more from this sort of patients run by Dictators.


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## Sehnsucht

God Parshuram said:


> China is doing what it is best at. People should not expect anything more from this sort of patients run by Dictators.


China & India is same in this regard.What you're doing in Kashmir, China is doing it in Xinjiang, albeit in a bigger scale.

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## fisher1

Petrichor said:


> China & India is same in this regard.What you're doing in Kashmir, China is doing it in Xinjiang, albeit in a bigger scale.



It seems like India is following the footsteps of China. 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...s-kashmir-largest-mosque-191129100152994.html

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## beijingwalker

Petrichor said:


> You have been taught propaganda since you were born so of course, you'll believe this with firm conviction.
> .


That's what we have been taught, our education makes us the best in spotting lies.

*Chinese students better at spotting fake news – Pisa*
Students in East Asia are better at distinguishing a fact from an opinion than UK students, the latest Programme for International Student Assessment results show

By Claudia Civinini

03 December 2019






Students in East Asia, including parts of China, can differentiate between facts and opinions better than students in the UK, according to the latest findings from the Programme for International Student Assessment (Pisa).

The reading test in Pisa includes an assessment of the ability to tell whether a source is credible, to recognise bias and identify authors’ intentions.

The ability to differentiate between fact and opinion is considered to be at level 5 or above on Pisa’s six levels of reading proficiency.

On average across all countries, 7.4 per cent of 15 year olds achieve a level five, and 1.3 per cent get up to level six – the UK is slightly above that, with 9.5 per cent at level 5 and 3 per cent at level 6.

But in the four provinces of China Beijing, Shanghai, Jiangsu and Zhejiang (B-S-J-Z), which topped every single ranking in Pisa, 22 per cent of students read at level five or above, and 4.2 per cent are at level six.

For Singapore, the percentage of top performers is triple that of OECD average – 26 per cent of students achieved a level five or above, with 7.3 per cent reaching level six.

Referring to high-performing countries in Asia and East Asia, Pisa coordinator Andreas Schleicher said: “The capacity of students in those regions to deal with ambiguous, complex information, to think creatively about solutions, to navigate fake news is actually a lot better than in the case of the UK.

“Those countries are now developing very sophisticated skill sets among their young people, that involve complex problem solving skills, creative skills, critical thinking skills".

However, on average, only around 8.7 per cent of students across the OECD countries were at level 5 or above, meaning that less than one student in every 10 was skilled at distinguishing fact from opinion.

Joint general secretary of the NEU teaching union Kevin Courtney singled out the finding as a reason for concern and added that reading should be fostered as a habit for life.

He said: “The finding that globally fewer than 1 in 10 students was able to distinguish between fact and opinion is extremely worrying in an era of fake news.

“As the OECD points out, reading is no longer mainly about extracting information; it is about constructing knowledge, thinking critically and making well-founded judgements.

"We need to ensure that our education system focuses on developing these skills in our young people, not simply on cramming them with facts."

For the first time in 2018, the reading test was carried out in most countries with a computer-based, adaptive test.

The new assessment was developed in response to criticisms that the tests are “one-size fits all”.

Read more about the Pisa results 2018 here. 

https://www.tes.com/news/chinese-students-better-spotting-fake-news-pisa

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> That's what we have been taught, our education makes us the best in spotting lies.
> 
> *Chinese students better at spotting fake news – Pisa*
> Students in East Asia are better at distinguishing a fact from an opinion than UK students, the latest Programme for International Student Assessment results show
> 
> By Claudia Civinini
> 
> 03 December 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Students in East Asia, including parts of China, can differentiate between facts and opinions better than students in the UK, according to the latest findings from the Programme for International Student Assessment (Pisa).
> 
> The reading test in Pisa includes an assessment of the ability to tell whether a source is credible, to recognise bias and identify authors’ intentions.
> 
> The ability to differentiate between fact and opinion is considered to be at level 5 or above on Pisa’s six levels of reading proficiency.
> 
> On average across all countries, 7.4 per cent of 15 year olds achieve a level five, and 1.3 per cent get up to level six – the UK is slightly above that, with 9.5 per cent at level 5 and 3 per cent at level 6.
> 
> But in the four provinces of China Beijing, Shanghai, Jiangsu and Zhejiang (B-S-J-Z), which topped every single ranking in Pisa, 22 per cent of students read at level five or above, and 4.2 per cent are at level six.
> 
> For Singapore, the percentage of top performers is triple that of OECD average – 26 per cent of students achieved a level five or above, with 7.3 per cent reaching level six.
> 
> Referring to high-performing countries in Asia and East Asia, Pisa coordinator Andreas Schleicher said: “The capacity of students in those regions to deal with ambiguous, complex information, to think creatively about solutions, to navigate fake news is actually a lot better than in the case of the UK.
> 
> “Those countries are now developing very sophisticated skill sets among their young people, that involve complex problem solving skills, creative skills, critical thinking skills".
> 
> However, on average, only around 8.7 per cent of students across the OECD countries were at level 5 or above, meaning that less than one student in every 10 was skilled at distinguishing fact from opinion.
> 
> Joint general secretary of the NEU teaching union Kevin Courtney singled out the finding as a reason for concern and added that reading should be fostered as a habit for life.
> 
> He said: “The finding that globally fewer than 1 in 10 students was able to distinguish between fact and opinion is extremely worrying in an era of fake news.
> 
> “As the OECD points out, reading is no longer mainly about extracting information; it is about constructing knowledge, thinking critically and making well-founded judgements.
> 
> "We need to ensure that our education system focuses on developing these skills in our young people, not simply on cramming them with facts."
> 
> For the first time in 2018, the reading test was carried out in most countries with a computer-based, adaptive test.
> 
> The new assessment was developed in response to criticisms that the tests are “one-size fits all”.
> 
> Read more about the Pisa results 2018 here.
> 
> https://www.tes.com/news/chinese-students-better-spotting-fake-news-pisa



Ah bullshit. 

According to Forbes, in some countries PISA selects a sample from only the best-educated areas or from their top-performing students, slanting the results. China, Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Singapore and Argentina were only some of the examples.

Guess, you don't understand the difference between the top 1% and the rest of population.


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## beijingwalker

IlyasMyHero said:


> Ah bullshit.
> 
> According to Forbes, in some countries PISA selects a sample from only the best-educated areas or from their top-performing students, slanting the results. China, Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Singapore and Argentina were only some of the examples.
> 
> Guess, you don't understand the difference between the top 1% and the rest of population.


You can choose not to believe it, but China also tops the world math Olympiad, world physics Olympiad... but of course, you can deny all of them, that's your right.

*Top 20 Country by International Mathematical Olympiad Gold Medal (1959-2019)*
*




Top 20 Country by International Physics Olympiad Gold Medal (1967-2019)





*

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## Viva_Viet

beijingwalker said:


> You can choose not to believe it, but China also tops the world math Olympiad, world physics Olympiad... but of course, you can deny all of them, that's your right.
> 
> *Top 20 Country by International Mathematical Olympiad Gold Medal (1959-2019)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top 20 Country by International Physics Olympiad Gold Medal (1967-2019)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Okay, but why basic salary for "smart" Cnese is almost at the bottom ??

How can they survive wt 186-300 usd while the CN minimum living cost is abt 350-500 usd ??

-------
The major cities of Shanghai, Shenzhen, Beijing, Guangzhou, Tianjin, Nanjing and Hangzhou all now have a monthly minimum wage of more than 2,000 yuan but in smaller cities in Hunan, Anhui, Liaoning, Heilongjiang and even Fujian, the monthly rate is still less than 1,300 yuan (*186usd*)
https://clb.org.hk/content/china’s-regional-governments-reluctant-raise-minimum-wage

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## beijingwalker

Viva_Viet said:


> Okay, but why basic salary for "smart" Cnese is almost at the bottom ??
> 
> How can they survive wt 186-300 usd while the CN minimum living cost is abt 350-500 usd ??
> 
> -------
> The major cities of Shanghai, Shenzhen, Beijing, Guangzhou, Tianjin, Nanjing and Hangzhou all now have a monthly minimum wage of more than 2,000 yuan but in smaller cities in Hunan, Anhui, Liaoning, Heilongjiang and even Fujian, the monthly rate is still less than 1,300 yuan (*186usd*)
> https://clb.org.hk/content/china’s-regional-governments-reluctant-raise-minimum-wage


No one takes minimum wage here, you stay at home collecting welfare can be more money than that.

"According to World Cost of Living spreadsheet (crowdsourced data), the *average salary* for *Beijing* jobs is approximately CNY8,507.77 per month.( around 1200$-1300$)"

I also do hiring, for an entry level position of a not so great job you have to pay at least 10000￥ ( around 1400$) per month here, anything lower than this people may think you are joking. Most deliverymen can make more than this money.

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## Sehnsucht

TheTruth said:


> No such country has ever existed, you disgusting piece of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Post a single bit of proof, instead of some bullshit the CIA fed you. I don't live in the PRC and I wasn't born there, but I'm not a dumb fucking CUCK who would believe anything some fucking white man says.
> 
> Are you mentally ill?
> 
> 
> 
> You're fucking retarded. Ethnic Chinese in the West outscore all other ethnic groups too. Is that a big conspiracy as well, you jealous, hateful donkey?


@waz @Dubious @The Eagle 
Such filthy language allowed on this forum?


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## beijingwalker

This Uighur girl became a social media infuencer by streaming her daily job working in a stable taking care of horses in Xinjiang. Those are thoroughbred horses native to Central Asia and Xinjiang, one horse can easily cost over 1000$ each month for food and caring.

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## fisher1

Former German international football player Mesut Özil has lashed out at the Muslim world over their silence on China’s persecution of Uighurs. 

In a statement issued on his social media handles, he expressed his concerns regarding the situation of Muslims in Xinjiang, China. 

He also called out the Muslim world for their silence. 

*“what will be remembered years later would not be the torture by the tyrants but the silence of their Muslim brothers,” *

Mesut Özil wrote. 

He added that the Muslims are silent and their voice isn’t heard. The renowned footballer also highlighted the brutal persecution of Uighurs.

“East Turkistan, the bleeding wound of the Ummah, resisting against the persecutors trying to separate them from their religion. *They burn their Qurans. They shut down their mosques. They ban their schools. They kill their holy men. The men are forced into camps and their families are forced to live with Chinese men. The women are forced to marry Chinese men*,” he further wrote.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1205439723302469632

Arsenal Football Club is one of the top football clubs in the English Premier League (EPL). It enjoys a huge fan following across the world, including China. 

Following their star footballer’s condemnation, Arsenal distanced itself from the statement Özil made. 

“The content published is Özil’s personal opinion. As a football club, Arsenal has always adhered to the principle of not involving itself in politics,” Arsenal said in a statement. 

Last year, Mesut Özil’s support for Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan had brought him under criticism from the German fans. 

In July last year, he decided to retire from international football citing racism. 

“I am German when we win, an immigrant when we lose” Ozil had said.

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## 313ghazi

kankan326 said:


> Muslim person:"China. Don't touch your Muslims. They are our brothers"
> Chinese person:"If we don't do anything to them, how could we stop terrorists killing innocent people then?"
> Same Muslim person:"Don't ask me. It's your problem."



Apparently there aren't enough intelligent people in China to solve this "complex" issue so let me help you. 

Terrorism should be approached as any other crime. You focus on investigating terrorist networks, their funding, their members, you infiltrate amongst them, you work WITH the communities they hide in to get intelligence and you keep your people safe. 

In China I am sure cars get stolen. I'm pretty sure your police do not suspect everyone with a drivers license of stealing cars or being a suspect. They would investigate, find evidence and shut down the car theft gangs by arresting the right people, not by systematically arresting everyone who can drive, forcing them into camps and preaching to them about communism and using bicycles instead of driving.

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## beijingwalker

The 31-year-old has become a controversial figure, particularly in his homeland, Germany, in recent years. In 2018 he was photographed with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, raising questions about his loyalty to the national team on the eve of the World Cup in Russia. Germany made an early exit from the tournament and Özil subsequently quit the national team, accusing German football officials of racism.

Earlier this year, the attacking midfielder courted further controversy when he invited Erdogan to his wedding as his best man.

*Turkey's Erdogan is best man at footballer Mesut Ozil's wedding




*

*Arsenal distances itself from Mesut Ozil post criticising China's treatment of Uighur Muslims*

In a statement on Weibo, China's most popular social media site, Arsenal said: "Regarding the comments made by Mesut Ozil on social media, Arsenal must make a clear statement.

"The content published is Ozil's personal opinion. As a football club, Arsenal has always adhered to the principle of not involving itself in politics."

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## fisher1

kankan326 said:


> Muslim person:"China. Don't touch your Muslims. They are our brothers"
> Chinese person:"If we don't do anything to them, how could we stop terrorists killing innocent people then?"
> Same Muslim person:"Don't ask me. It's your problem."



Tell me something smart one.

If you're only putting terrorists in concentration camps, why not execute them? Why waste resources on re educating terrorists?

Because it's bollocks and the whole population is being subjected to a holocaust. That's why there are no protests, no terrorism, nothing because who will protest? Everyone is in torture cells.

Nowhere in the world a whole minority is imprisoned because a few troublemakers cause mayhem except in India and China.

I can't believe it but Israelis seem merciful compared to Indian and Chinese now. Until they also follow the footsteps of the devil, i mean the Chinese and imprison whole Palestine

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## beijingwalker

*Is footballer Mesut Ozil German or Turkish?*
Footballer Mesut Ozil's resignation from the German national team has triggered a debate on racism and integration.
Inside Story 25 Jul 2018 19:47 GMT

"Racism and disrespect".

Those were the reasons Mesut Ozil gave for quitting the German national team after being blamed for Germany's shock defeat in the first round of this year's World Cup.

He created a media storm that erupted after he had his picture taken with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in May.

Critics began to question his loyalty and accused him of loving Turkey more than Germany.* Ozil was born in Germany to parents of Turkish background.*

The German football association has rejected Ozil's claims of racism. So, how will Germany's and Europe's multicultural societies deal with this issue?

https://www.aljazeera.com/programme...esut-ozil-german-turkish-180725193946938.html

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## Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8

kankan326 said:


> Muslim person:"China. Don't touch your Muslims. They are our brothers"
> Chinese person:"If we don't do anything to them, how could we stop terrorists killing innocent people then?"
> Same Muslim person:"Don't ask me. It's your problem."





you are witty


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## Pakhtoon yum

kankan326 said:


> Muslim person:"China. Don't touch your Muslims. They are our brothers"
> Chinese person:"If we don't do anything to them, how could we stop terrorists killing innocent people then?"
> Same Muslim person:"Don't ask me. It's your problem."


@waz @Dubious do you hear this communist islamophobic pig?

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## Azadkashmir

beijingwalker said:


> *Is footballer Mesut Ozil German or Turkish?*
> Footballer Mesut Ozil's resignation from the German national team has triggered a debate on racism and integration.
> Inside Story 25 Jul 2018 19:47 GMT
> 
> "Racism and disrespect".
> 
> Those were the reasons Mesut Ozil gave for quitting the German national team after being blamed for Germany's shock defeat in the first round of this year's World Cup.
> 
> He created a media storm that erupted after he had his picture taken with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in May.
> 
> Critics began to question his loyalty and accused him of loving Turkey more than Germany.* Ozil was born in Germany to parents of Turkish background.*
> 
> The German football association has rejected Ozil's claims of racism. So, how will Germany's and Europe's multicultural societies deal with this issue?
> 
> https://www.aljazeera.com/programme...esut-ozil-german-turkish-180725193946938.html



my Chinese friend, you cant please western bastards. afro-American tried for many years by being clowns on stage to this day wearing dresses in movies. Pakistani and other minorities in Britain tried but we have limits.
even bruce lee had to take alot of racial abuse in usa etc.


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## beijingwalker

Pakhtoon yum said:


> @waz @Dubious do you hear this communist islamophobic pig?


We never attack Pakistan or Islam religion, cause we give great respect to our Pakistani friends, but some people repeatedly come to China section and unprovokedly attack China on daily basis, that's the real problem here.



Azadkashmir said:


> my Chinese friend, you cant please western bastards. afro-American tried for many years by being clowns on stage to this day wearing dresses in movies. Pakistani and other minorities in Britain tried but we have limits.
> even bruce lee had to take alot of racial abuse in usa etc.



We all know that deep inside US politics are always race based.

*STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL ON CHINA THREAT: FOR FIRST TIME U.S. HAS 'GREAT POWER COMPETITOR THAT IS NOT CAUCASIAN'
https://www.newsweek.com/china-threat-state-department-race-caucasian-1413202*

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## beijingwalker

Many Uighur officers bled their last blood for China's fight against terrorists. Hats off to them. Now they can rest in peace, Xinjiang had long become terrorism free and this land now enjoys great development and prosperity.


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## Flash_Ninja

kankan326 said:


> Muslim person:"China. Don't touch your Muslims. They are our brothers"
> Chinese person:"If we don't do anything to them, how could we stop terrorists killing innocent people then?"
> Same Muslim person:"Don't ask me. It's your problem."



Learn from Pakistan's experiences, execute the terrorists, deny any safe havens, uplift the population. We never banned any religious or cultural practices, nor set up any re-education camps and managed to wipe out the Taliban from Waziristan.

Mass punishment tactics never work, Indian occupied Kashmir is proof of this, their tactics over there directly led to countless indiferent civillians turning into mujahideen fighters.

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## grandmaster

Why he did not criticize India which is terrible on suppression of Muslim. this must be biased faked news and Anti-China propaganda

https://truthout.org/articles/india...zation-rights-from-muslims-sparking-protests/

Critics condemned Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government Tuesday after the Lok Sabha, the lower chamber of the country’s parliament, passed the Citizenship Amendment Bill, stripping naturalization rights granted to other groups from the nation’s 200 million Muslims living in the world’s largest democracy.
....
Muslim Indians are deeply unsettled. They see the new measure, called the Citizenship Amendment Bill, as the first step by the governing party to make second-class citizens of India’s 200 million Muslims, one of the largest Muslim populations in the world, and render many of them stateless.
...

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## beijingwalker

Flash_Ninja said:


> Learn from Pakistan's experiences, execute the terrorists, deny any safe havens, uplift the population. We never banned any religious or cultural practices, nor set up any re-education camps and managed to wipe out the Taliban from Waziristan.
> 
> Mass punishment tactics never work, Indian occupied Kashmir is proof of this, their tactics over there directly led to countless indiferent civillians turning into mujahideen fighters.


No, thanks, we'd already won the war on terrorism for years, now Xinjiiang enjoys great development and prosperity with zero terrorism.

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## Flash_Ninja

beijingwalker said:


> No, thanks, we'd already won the war on terrorism for years, now Xinjiiang enjoys great development and prosperity with zero terrorism.



If there was zero terrorism then there would be zero need for such policies.

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## beijingwalker

Flash_Ninja said:


> If there was zero terrorism then there would be zero need for such policies.


It wasn't and because of Chinese policies now it is.


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## Flash_Ninja

beijingwalker said:


> It wasn't and because of Chinese policies now it is.



Its a shame then that instead of reversing the policies they are doubling down on it.


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## vi-va

Flash_Ninja said:


> Learn from Pakistan's experiences, execute the terrorists, deny any safe havens, uplift the population. We never banned any religious or cultural practices, nor set up any re-education camps and managed to wipe out the Taliban from Waziristan.
> 
> Mass punishment tactics never work, Indian occupied Kashmir is proof of this, their tactics over there directly led to countless indiferent civillians turning into mujahideen fighters.


Pakistan do have educational facility to transform those misled rebellions. I remembered there are youtube video introduce those facility. I think it's in Baluchistan.
I may find it later if needed. I saw those video a couple of month ago.

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## HannibalBarca

kankan326 said:


> Muslim person:"China. Don't touch your Muslims. They are our brothers"
> Chinese person:"If we don't do anything to them, how could we stop terrorists killing innocent people then?"
> Same Muslim person:"Don't ask me. It's your problem."



US war on Terror Killed Millions of Innocent Muslims... for few thousands of Terro...That are still to this day high and pumping...
So now the US is your Idol to follow?

"Let's arrest Millions of Uighurs... Make sure Islam (since it's an inherent part of Uighur Identity) is getting removed bit by bit... for few dozens of retards with knives..."

Can't you see that you guys are feeding a generation that could turn against you? Is that hard to read about Mistakes of other nations? Or does your hate for something different blind you for the greater good of the nation?

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## Beast

HannibalBarca said:


> US war on Terror Killed Millions of Innocent Muslims... for few thousands of Terro...That are still to this day high and pumping...
> So now the US is your Idol to follow?
> 
> "Let's arrest Millions of Uighurs... Make sure Islam (since it's an inherent part of Uighur Identity) is getting removed bit by bit... for few dozens of retards with knives..."
> 
> Can't you see that you guys are feeding a generation that could turn against you? Is that hard to read about Mistakes of other nations? Or does your hate for something different blind you for the greater good of the nation?


Yet those who condemn China are supporter of these US regime or their allies. They will selective use their standard to judge China. How to convince others with this kind of standard? I despise people using double standard. Their words more or less show their character.

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## IblinI

HannibalBarca said:


> US war on Terror Killed Millions of Innocent Muslims... for few thousands of Terro...That are still to this day high and pumping...
> So now the US is your Idol to follow?
> 
> "Let's arrest Millions of Uighurs... Make sure Islam (since it's an inherent part of Uighur Identity) is getting removed bit by bit... for few dozens of retards with knives..."
> 
> Can't you see that you guys are feeding a generation that could turn against you? Is that hard to read about Mistakes of other nations? Or does your hate for something different blind you for the greater good of the nation?


Maybe you should get your number right next time? a few millions out of an eithinc with barely ten million population, think again, don't you see any problem here?

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## vi-va

HannibalBarca said:


> US war on Terror Killed Millions of Innocent Muslims... for few thousands of Terro...That are still to this day high and pumping...
> So now the US is your Idol to follow?
> 
> "Let's arrest Millions of Uighurs... Make sure Islam (since it's an inherent part of Uighur Identity) is getting removed bit by bit... for few dozens of retards with knives..."
> 
> Can't you see that you guys are feeding a generation that could turn against you? Is that hard to read about Mistakes of other nations? Or does your hate for something different blind you for the greater good of the nation?


Millions of Uighurs? Your math is terrible, have no clue how many jails needed, how large it should be. You are insane. Xinjiang has thousand terrorist attack, a few dozens?
I don't care what you say, what you think, your credibility is so low.

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## IblinI

viva_zhao said:


> Millions of Uighurs? Your math is terrible, have no clue how many jails needed, how large it should be. You are insane. Xinjiang has thousand terrorist attack, a few dozens?
> I don't care what you say, what you think, your credibility is so low.


Not only that but also mostly young men are detained, million young men out of a total of 10million population?

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## Rasengan

viva_zhao said:


> Pakistan do have educational facility to transform those misled rebellions. I remembered there are youtube video introduce those facility. I think it's in Baluchistan.
> I may find it later if needed. I saw those video a couple of month ago.



We did have educational facilities. However, we never took away their ethnic identity or their right to practice their religion. Pakistan also never imprisoned their family members. Instead, we used the principles of Islam to educate them on how wrong their actions were and how they were being used by warlords for their own selfish interests. Winning the hearts and minds of the people is the way forward rather than using brute force on the entire population. 

But what concerns most Pakistani's and Muslims, in general, is the CPC policy of restricting Muslims to practice their religion. When you stop Muslims from praying then you are infringing upon their basic rights as a follower of Islam. I don't know what the current true reality of Xinjiang is today. But the Chinese must realize religion is important to Muslims. No Muslim state (sensible) will question China's sovereignty of Xinjiang if it can provide a guarantee that Muslims can practice their religion freely. When I mean freely brother this includes being allowed to pray in a Mosque, reading the Quran and fasting. What this doesn't include is for a Muslim to seek independence when these sacred rights are protected.

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## HannibalBarca

Rasengan said:


> We did have educational facilities. However, we never took away their ethnic identity or their right to practice their religion. Pakistan also never imprisoned their family members. Instead, we used the principles of Islam to educate them on how wrong their actions were and how they were being used by warlords for their own selfish interests. Winning the hearts and minds of the people is the way forward rather than using brute force on the entire population.
> 
> But what concerns most Pakistani's and Muslims, in general, is the CPC policy of restricting Muslims to practice their religion. When you stop Muslims from praying then you are infringing upon their basic rights as a follower of Islam. I don't know what the current true reality of Xinjiang is today. But the Chinese must realize religion is important to Muslims. No Muslim state (sensible) will question China's sovereignty of Xinjiang if it can provide a guarantee that Muslims can practice their religion freely. When I mean freely brother this includes being allowed to pray in a Mosque, reading the Quran and fasting. What this doesn't include is for a Muslim to seek independence when these sacred rights are protected.



It's actually forbidden to seek independence/rebel from an entity if that same entity gives you the freedom to practice your religion freely.
BUT the moment when Islam and it's practice are severely restricted... without any hope to lift the restriction then it's Halal to fight back till it's restored.

The Problem with China... is their thinking that Islam is like any other religion... or any other entity that with enough restriction or what else... is removable... They think it's Christianity/Buddhism/shinto etc.. and believe that Muslims are like those Chinese/Tibetans or Mongols who will just kneel and accept...
Even in their own History... their ancestors understood that after making the same mistake... that's why they were mostly open to let Muslim practice their religion... Heck Thanks to the Hui Muslims that they kept the Uighur ancestor to get deep inside China...
Every other Entity started by making that same mistake with Islam/Muslims... If ppl could open a book and read the Islamic/Muslim Dynamic under Slavinc rule and Byzantium rule... they will be surprised on how Non-Muslim Kings.. used to let Muslim practice freely in hope to maintain their support in Internal peace and Wars (something they didn't do with other religious groups)...

But What can you do... Every new Gen think they know better than the previous one... So let them get burn and maybe they will understand... as their forefathers did...

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## beijingwalker

Rasengan said:


> We did have educational facilities. However, we never took away their ethnic identity or their right to practice their religion. Pakistan also never imprisoned their family members. Instead, we used the principles of Islam to educate them on how wrong their actions were and how they were being used by warlords for their own selfish interests. Winning the hearts and minds of the people is the way forward rather than using brute force on the entire population.
> 
> But what concerns most Pakistani's and Muslims, in general, is the CPC policy of restricting Muslims to practice their religion. When you stop Muslims from praying then you are infringing upon their basic rights as a follower of Islam. I don't know what the current true reality of Xinjiang is today. But the Chinese must realize religion is important to Muslims. No Muslim state (sensible) will question China's sovereignty of Xinjiang if it can provide a guarantee that Muslims can practice their religion freely. When I mean freely brother this includes being allowed to pray in a Mosque, reading the Quran and fasting. What this doesn't include is for a Muslim to seek independence when these sacred rights are protected.


All those false claims were debunked many times with my many videos before, but if you don't see and listen, no one can help you.



HannibalBarca said:


> But What can you do... Every new Gen think they know better than the previous one... So let them get burn and maybe they will understand... as their forefathers did...


You can wait, that's fine.

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## Char

Rasengan said:


> We did have educational facilities. However, we never took away their ethnic identity or their right to practice their religion. Pakistan also never imprisoned their family members. Instead, we used the principles of Islam to educate them on how wrong their actions were and how they were being used by warlords for their own selfish interests. Winning the hearts and minds of the people is the way forward rather than using brute force on the entire population.
> 
> But what concerns most Pakistani's and Muslims, in general, is the CPC policy of restricting Muslims to practice their religion. When you stop Muslims from praying then you are infringing upon their basic rights as a follower of Islam. I don't know what the current true reality of Xinjiang is today. But the Chinese must realize religion is important to Muslims. No Muslim state (sensible) will question China's sovereignty of Xinjiang if it can provide a guarantee that Muslims can practice their religion freely. When I mean freely brother this includes being allowed to pray in a Mosque, reading the Quran and fasting. What this doesn't include is for a Muslim to seek independence when these sacred rights are protected.



They once were fully free, but they began to kill people and fire in the street, i don't believe freedom of religious, it's religious war in name of freedom of religious.

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## beijingwalker

Most law enforcement officers in Xinjiang are Uighur Muslims themselves, Most people terrorists killed in the past decades were all Uighurs.

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## HannibalBarca

Char said:


> They once were fully free, but they began to kill people and fire in the street, i don't believe freedom of religious, it's religious war in name of freedom of religious.


Restriction on Islam and Muslims re-started with the rise of Communism in China... Where the first targets were Hui Muslims... Since at that Time Uighur region was seen as a far/poor/lost region...

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## beijingwalker

HannibalBarca said:


> Restriction on Islam and Muslims re-started with the rise of Communism in China... Where the first targets were Hui Muslims... Since at that Time Uighur region was seen as a far/poor/lost region...


Do you know Kazakhstan have more restrictions and Turkey was the first Muslim country actually institutionalized restrictions on religious practicing in the country?



> In Kazakhstan, for wearing face veils will be fined 50 monthly notional unit, reports Kazakhstan’s Ministry of Religious Affairs and Civil Society. ‘Wearing a niqab, a veil, a paranja, a balaclava, as well as ski masks, in public places prevent law enforcement authorities from identifying the person.
> 
> The effectiveness of measures to ensure public safety is declining. Therefore, this rule is introduced’, said the chairman of the department Committee on Religious Affairs Erkin Ongarbayev. As explained in the Ministry, in public places will be allowed to wear only medical masks, as well as masks provided for by safety in the workplace. As for ski masks and balaclava, these hats can be worn only on sports grounds.
> 
> Otherwise, there is a fine of 50 MNU (KZT133,450). | Материалды көшіріп бассаңыз https://qazaqtimes.com/en/article/30321 сайтының гиперсілтемесін міндетті түрде қойыңыз. Авторлық құқықты сақтаңыз.

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## HannibalBarca

beijingwalker said:


> Do you know Kazakhstan have more restrictions and Turkey was the first country actually institutionalized restrictions on religious practicing in the country?


Yes. Kazaks were Communist (legacy from the Soviets)... Actually Many Muslims were deported into Camps in the North.
As for Turkey... it was the Secular Gov... Where Islamic practice was restricted.

Thankfully those same who believed to win over Islam... just lost at the End... They disappeared and Islam is back again...
Stalin Tried More than China will ever do... and still lost... (Almost 25% were Muslims under Soviet Union)

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## beijingwalker

HannibalBarca said:


> Yes. Kazaks were Communist (legacy from the Soviets)... Actually Many Muslims were deported into Camps in the North.
> As for Turkey... it was the Secular Gov... Where Islamic practice was restricted.
> 
> Thankfully those same who believed to win over Islam... just lost at the End... They disappeared and Islam is back again...


But how come we don't see many people go after Kazahkstan and Turkey over those issues?

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## Char

HannibalBarca said:


> Restriction on Islam and Muslims re-started with the rise of Communism in China... Where the first targets were Hui Muslims... Since at that Time Uighur region was seen as a far/poor/lost region...



Don't use freedom of religious to bash China while you don't accept other ideologies to expand in your land.

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## HannibalBarca

beijingwalker said:


> But how come we don't see many people go after Kazakhstan and Turkey over those issues?


They were overtaken by their own people... And contrary to today... No one Knew about Muslim deportation in Soviet Union at that time... Till Independence and Documents from the KGB... Same as China... If you guys didn't let your Docs leak or kept your whistleblower and your Internet vids in check... The world wouldn't have known... and we wouldn't be here today.

But with the Internet... Everything can be known ina split second... Everyone can share an instant behavior/opinion and the world will know... it doesn't matter if there is a Digital Great wall or not...



Char said:


> Don't use freedom of religious to bash China while you don't accept other ideologies to expand in your land.


Thankfully our History is our Witness.. you should read Religious minorities under Muslim rule... You may be surprised... to know that THEY themselves chose to migrate From Christians ruling from Europe to Muslim ones... Like in Andalusia or Under the Ottoman Empire...

I have nothing on China tbh... except Her restriction of Muslims... I mean.. even Terro op is ok to do... No one will be against you to protect yourself... But this is not protection anymore... it's an excuse to advance another agenda... and such restrictions isn't new either...as I said... It restarted under Communist China... with Hui muslims before any "Terro"

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## Char

HannibalBarca said:


> They were overtaken by their own people... And contrary to today... No one Knew about Muslim deportation in Soviet Union at that time... Till Independence and Documents from the KGB... Same as China... If you guys didn't let your Docs leak or kept your whistleblower and your Internet vids in check... The world wouldn't have known... and we wouldn't be here today.
> 
> But with the Internet... Everything can be known ina split second... Everyone can share an instant behavior/opinion and the world will know... it doesn't matter if there is a Digital Great wall or not...
> 
> 
> Thankfully our History is our Witness.. you should read Religious minorities under Muslim rule... You may be surprised... to know that THEY themselves chose to migrate From Christians ruling from Europe to Muslim ones... Like in Andalusia or Under the Ottoman Empire...
> 
> I have nothing on China tbh... except Her restriction of Muslims... I mean.. even Terro op is ok to do... No one will be against you to protect yourself... But this is not protection anymore... it's an excuse to advance another agenda... and such restrictions isn't new either...a s I said... It restarted under Communist China...



Of cause I know the history, do you really think Islam expanded by peace? Please have a look at the map the bleeding edge of the Muslim world. China want peace with Muslim world doesn't mean China will accept islam expanding in China.

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## HannibalBarca

Char said:


> Of cause I know the history, do you really think Islam expanded by peace? Please have a look at the map the bleeding edge of the Muslim world. China want peace with Muslim world doesn't mean China will accept islam expanding in China.


In the Beginning of Islam... There were 2 superpowers who declared war on Muslims... the Byzantine Empire(Romans) and the Sassanids(Persia)... it's the equivalent of the US and Russia today... And Muslims did the only thing appropriate at that time... They defended themselves... and went to war against them... So yes Ofc... When Muslims defeated the Sassanids and The Byzantium... they will automatically have their territories under their rule... And after that Islam with various groups operate an Expansion as ANY EMPIRE... No shame in that... We are quite proud of it... it's like saying the Eskimos winning over the US and RUSSIA at the SAME time...

China want peace with Muslims... and Muslims want peace with China... Or do you see any Muslim country waging war against China? The only problem is how you treat CHINESE Muslims... that's the only thing... People aren't asking much... Just let them practice their religion freely... take out the restriction of religious practice... AND if after that Some Muslims use Terror acts or wish to separate from China then NO ONE will stop you...

Muslims are forbidden to FIGHT/REBEL/DISOBEY a nation/gov/entity that GIVES THEM their total freedom to practice Islam... Remember that... As long as they can practice , they have no right to rebel...
Only rebellion is when they can't practice their religion freely and fully with No Future to end it.

Now about Islam expanding in China... Can you tell me who is FORCING CHINESE to convert? the answer is no one... Whatever a Chinese accept Islam... it's in his own... So if you guys are that sure about your belief...why do you fear People will Accept Islam... let them be... They accept or not it's their choice... Or do you think Chinese aren't intelligent/mature enough to make their choice...

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## FedererExpress

Mesut Özil is a hero. He won’t be bought off by CCP dirty money like many Muslim countries have been. Go on ya mate.

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## IblinI

Previously Armenian, currently Kurdish and Turkish is lecturing about Human rights and shouting out support for other independent movements? Heh, how ironic.

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## Char

HannibalBarca said:


> Or do you see any Muslim country waging war against China?



Turkey and Saudi did.

Actually Muslim countries killed many communist, they were also not forced to believe.

Dont pretend to be angel, US made trouble in Muslim world but you are making trouble with others by exploiting the freedom of religious.

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## FedererExpress

“East Turkistan, the bleeding wound of the Ummah, resisting against the persecutors trying to separate them from their religion. They burn their Qurans. They shut down their mosques. They ban their schools. They kill their holy men. The men are forced into camps and their families are forced to live with Chinese men. The women are forced to marry Chinese men” - Mesut Özil


This man is a true hero for speaking the truth about East Turkistan and the barbaric actions of the CCP invaders on the native Muslim population. Tibet and East Turkistan are occupied territories by CCP. These territories never belonged to the country called ‘China’.

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## HannibalBarca

Char said:


> Turkey and Saudi did.
> 
> Actually Muslim countries killed many communist, they were also not forced to believe.
> 
> Dont pretend to be angel, US made trouble in Muslim world but you are making trouble with others by exploiting the freedom of religious.


Well... I live in an alternate universe... never heard of a Turkish-Chinese war let alone a Saudi-Chinese war...
I do not need to pretend to be an Angel... since I'm Human... hope no Human does that...

Look... You know that the problem in the Xinjiang is a very special one... China fear an Independence movement from Uighurs... And that region is very very important for China... Most of China natural resources are out there... So she's trying to keep it... and one of the solution is to make sure that the Uighur Identity is under control... And you can't control that Identity without controlling the Islamic identity that is part of it...

If that region had no interesting ressources... we wouldn't be here speaking...

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## Rasengan

beijingwalker said:


> All those false claims were debunked many times with my many videos before, but if you don't see and listen, no one can help you.
> 
> 
> You can wait, that's fine.



You didn't read my post properly did you? Put your emotions to the side and read what I said carefully. I admire the Chinese people but one of their biggest failures of the current generation is not thinking outside the box. If you read my post properly then you would have realized the solution in front of your eyes. Xinjiang won't become independent and the Muslim world will be appeased if the Govt can provide a full proof guarantee that the Uighurs are free to practice their religion. Writing a few articles and showing a few video's isn't the solution because most people believe it's controlled by the state 

I don't need to watch video's as you know full well I have lived and worked in China. That argument doesn't work on me. There are 23,400 Mosque in Xinjiang so for starters, the Chinese Govt can show us proof that Muslims are allowed to pray on Friday across the region. Instead of taking the Muslim delegates into an educational center let them be allowed to roam free in Xinjiang so they can themselves attend the Mosque on Friday for a few months as well as the five daily prayers. If you have nothing to hide then this action wouldn't be difficult for the Chinese Govt. Don't you agree? 

Furthermore, there is a big accusation against China that the Uighur's are forced fed pork in these educational camps. You can easily resolve this issue by setting up a body where Muslims from other countries can observe that halal food standards are met. I am not talking about the interference of re-educating extremist Uighurs and assimilating them within Chinese society because that job belongs to China. I am one of the few members on this forum that has defended China's interests, therefore, my recommendations are good-natured. Now before you respond read what I said carefully.



HannibalBarca said:


> It's actually forbidden to seek independence/rebel from an entity if that same entity gives you the freedom to practice your religion freely.
> BUT the moment when Islam and it's practice are severely restricted... without any hope to lift the restriction then it's Halal to fight back till it's restored.



This is what I am trying to explain to @beijingwalker. China will have nothing to fear when the Uighurs are given the freedom to practice their religion. We both know the answer but to educate @beijingwalker on this issue he needs to realize that the narrative of independence will only be broken if this point is highlighted and proven to the Muslim world. Otherwise, China will continue to be demonized.

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## Char

HannibalBarca said:


> Well... I live in an alternate universe... never heard of a Turkish-Chinese war let alone a Saudi-Chinese war...
> I do not need to pretend to be an Angel... since I'm Human... hope no Human does that...
> 
> Look... You know that the problem in the Xinjiang is a very special one... China fear an Independence movement from Uighurs... And that region is very very important for China... Most of China natural resources are out there... So she's trying to keep it... and one of the solution is to make sure that the Uighur Identity is under control... And you can't control that Identity without controlling the Islamic identity that is part of it...
> 
> If that region had no interesting ressources... we wouldn't be here speaking...



It's not China wanted to make Xinjiang a religious issue.

Turkey and Saudi did in the background, a war doesn't mean fighting directly.

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## Rasengan

HannibalBarca said:


> China want peace with Muslims... and Muslims want peace with China... Or do you see any Muslim country waging war against China? The only problem is how you treat CHINESE Muslims... that's the only thing... People aren't asking much... Just let them practice their religion freely... take out the restriction of religious practice... AND if after that Some Muslims use Terror acts or wish to separate from China then NO ONE will stop you...
> .



The Chinese do want to have a good relationship with the Muslim world and vice versa. No Muslim country wants to wage war against China and the Muslim people have no hatred against the country from a historical perspective. You have mentioned it quite clearly. Muslim people don't mind China taking a harsh stance on terrorists but that shouldn't be at the cost of ordinary people who are law-abiding Chinese citizens from practicing their religion.

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## HannibalBarca

Char said:


> It's not China wanted to make Xinjiang a religious issue.
> 
> Turkey and Saudi did in the background, a war doesn't mean fighting directly.



No it's not... Actually the only vocal in this matter was Turkey... Where religion WASN'T the main focus in the first place... but mostly as a supportive gesture to a brotherly ethnicity...

BUT later on, China went into a direction, where Islam was Involved... then at this moment it became a Muslim problem that grow among the community... AND even more with all the later news...

If China kept it only under an "Ethnic" issue... Me and You wouldn't be here speaking... But China decided otherwise... and made it into "Religion".

As I said before... If Chinese Muslims were to practice their religion FREELY with no restriction... AND with that Still REBELLED/asked for Independence... Then NOT A SINGLE Muslim will have the right to object if China took certain drastic measures to counter it... Because such movement also happen IN Muslim countries... like the Kurdish exemple...

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## Type59

The han chinese in hong kong and Taiwan are not viewing "re-education camps" positively. I wonder how many han Chinese been put through re-education camps in the mainland.

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## HannibalBarca

Rasengan said:


> The Chinese do want to have a good relationship with the Muslim world and vice versa. No Muslim country wants to wage war against China and the Muslim people have no hatred against the country from a historical perspective. You have mentioned it quite clearly. Muslim people don't mind China taking a harsh stance on terrorists but that shouldn't be at the cost of ordinary people who are law-abiding Chinese citizens from practicing their religion.



They think the Muslim word is equal to the Western one in behavior... They are seeing the World with one Optic... "China vs Not China" and therefore putting everyone behavior in the same bag... and they are taking the US as the primary exemple to apply to everyone...

They don't want to see that the Muslim world is trying what it can to make things right, like not taking direct stance against what is happening and pushing for a dialog While keeping exchanges going... But still they seems to find it impossible to grasp... or refuse to accept it as a gesture to find a solution.

As for Islam... The lack of Knowledge about Islam also play a huge role in their understand of the Dynamic of what is happening... Their only source of Islam is also under one primary exemple... and that's the US... Even though they have a very long History with Muslims in their own country... more than any other Western country combined... and yet it seems whatever is Pre-Communist China is thrown out of the window... as if it's outdated/useless...

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## Rasengan

Char said:


> They once were fully free, but they began to kill people and fire in the street, i don't believe freedom of religious, it's religious war in name of freedom of religious.



@beijingwalker You see it's poster-like @Char which gives the wrong impression to Muslims outside of China that there is no religious freedom in Xinjiang. Don't lecture me about a religious war in the name of freedom @Char. By that token, I can say the same thing about Chairman Mao when the Chinese people were fanatically waving the red book and killing people under the Communists ideology. If you want to live on another planet then be my guess. Your solution and the Chinese Govt's actions aren't working just like in HK where the situation has gone dire. The Afghan peace process will finish soon and what do you think a million armed strong fighters will do when the Uighur plight is brought to their table? Last time Pakistan was able to convince the Taliban back in 1996, but times have changed now with social media more easily available. Do I want this to happen? NO. Do I want to see Xinjiang and the Uighurs to prosper under the Chinese Govt? YES. For once think outside the box instead of following the same mantra.

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## Char

HannibalBarca said:


> No it's not... Actually the only vocal in this matter was Turkey... Where religion WASN'T the main focus in the first place... but mostly as a supportive gesture to a brotherly ethnicity...
> 
> BUT later on, China went into a direction, where Islam was Involved... then at this moment it became a Muslim problem that grow among the community... AND even more with all the later news...
> 
> If China kept it only under an "Ethnic" issue... Me and You wouldn't be here speaking... But China decided otherwise... and made it into "Religion".
> 
> As I said before... If Chinese Muslims were to practice their religion FREELY with no restriction... AND with that Still REBELLED/asked for Independence... Then NOT A SINGLE Muslim will have the right to object if China took certain drastic measures to counter it... Because such movement also happen IN Muslim countries... like the Kurdish exemple...



The separatists used the religion from the beginning.



Rasengan said:


> @beijingwalker You see it's poster-like @Char which gives the wrong impression to Muslims outside of China that there is no religious freedom in Xinjiang. Don't lecture me about a religious war in the name of freedom @Char. By that token, I can say the same thing about Chairman Mao when the Chinese people were fanatically waving the red book and killing people under the Communists ideology. If you want to live on another planet then be my guess. Your solution and the Chinese Govt's actions aren't working just like in HK where the situation has gone dire. The Afghan peace process will finish soon and what do you think a million armed strong fighters will do when the Uighur plight is brought to their table? Last time Pakistan was about to convince the Taliban back in 1996, but times have changed now with social media more easily available. Do I want this to happen? NO. Do I want to see Xinjiang and the Uighurs to prosper under the Chinese Govt? YES. For once think outside the box instead of following the same mantra.



Actually there's no freedom of religious but freedom of believe, that's different.

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## HannibalBarca

Char said:


> The separatists used the religion from the beginning.


I remember the separatist mov... Their main voice was that China Invaded their lands... Islam was never used in the first days...
But when China decided to control the Identity by touching Religion... Then that SMALL group of separatist begun to use Islam as a way to increase their voice and rally ppl to their cause...
You guys are new in this game... We had it for decades in our regions... ISIS main recruiting saga is based on it... and before them AQ and before them Talibans and so on...

You gave them one more excuse to use against you...

It's like the US and their Drones... Where in hope to destroy Terros didn't care about the Dozens of thousands of innocent killed around... But the real Terro used it to rally people... And today China is doing the same mistake... you are feeding a beast and you don't even know it... 

When the rally is Islam... be sure that they will come from EVERY corner of the world... like they did in Bosnia/Afghanistan/Syria/Iraq etc...

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## Char

HannibalBarca said:


> I remember the separatist mov... Their main voice was that China Invaded their lands... Islam was never used in the first days...
> But when China decided to control the Identity by touching Religion... Then that SMALL group of separatist begun to use Islam as a way to increase their voice and rally ppl to their cause...
> You guys are new in this game... We had it for decades in our regions... ISIS main recruiting saga is based on it... and before them AQ and before them Talibans and so on...
> 
> You gave them one more excuse to use against you...
> 
> It's like the US and their Drones... Where in hope to destroy Terros didn't care about the Dozens of thousands of innocent killed around... But the real Terro used it to rally people... And today China is doing the same mistake... you are feeding a beast and you don't even know it...
> 
> When the rally is Islam... be sure that they will come from EVERY corner of the world... like they did in Bosnia/Afghanistan/Syria/Iraq etc...



At least China is not dropping bombs in Muslim countries, i prefer ideology is part of sovereignty, don't bother each other, if you want freedom of religious you should accept other ideology to expand in your country. Mutual respect or not I'm OK to both.

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## Rasengan

HannibalBarca said:


> They think the Muslim word is equal to the Western one in behavior... They are seeing the World with one Optic... "China vs Not China" and therefore putting everyone behavior in the same bag... and they are taking the US as the primary exemple to apply to everyone...
> 
> They don't want to see that the Muslim world is trying what it can to make things right, like not taking direct stance against what is happening and pushing for a dialog While keeping exchanges going... But still they seems to find it impossible to grasp... or refuse to accept it as a gesture to find a solution.
> 
> As for Islam... The lack of Knowledge about Islam also play a huge role in their understand of the Dynamic of what is happening... Their only source of Islam is also under one primary exemple... and that's the US... Even though they have a very long History with Muslims in their own country... more than any other Western country combined... and yet it seems whatever is Pre-Communist China is thrown out of the window... as if it's outdated/useless...



This is one of the major flaws in the thinking of Chinese policymakers. They look at the world under one prism without realizing the separate nature of Muslims and the West. This explains why the Chinese continue to fail to project a soft image in comparison to the American's who are obviously more aggressive in subjugating other states. I have mentioned this many times on this forum to Chinese members and even to my personal friends. HK is a prime example. The Chinese Govt didn't win the narrative. They are making the same mistake in Xinjiang. Like you said in your post their lack of knowledge of Islam is weakening their position. They can easily invite moderate imams to these educational centers and allow them to explain how terrorism is wrong in Islam with verses from the Quran and the Hadith. But if the Chinese Govt refuses this solution then they only have themselves to blame. Muslims will continue to point fingers and there will come a time when the people will force there respective Govt's to take certain actions against China. 

Xinjiang doesn't even come close to the problems faced by Pakistan back in 2008-2011. We used force against terrorists but we also educated them on the doctrine of Islam which forbids taking arms against the state when the freedom to practice the five pillars of Islam is there.

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## HannibalBarca

Char said:


> At least China is not dropping bombs in Muslim countries, i prefer ideology is part of sovereignty, don't bother each other, if you want freedom of religious you should accept other ideology to expand in your country. Mutuel respect or not I'm OK to both.



No one said China drop bombs on Muslims... So can you stop with that...
Me, I want to practice my religion... BUT me, isn't part of the issue here... we are speaking about CHINESE MUSLIMS... or do you not see them as Chinese... and then it would be a problem...

Those CHINESE MUSLIMS want to practice their religion freely... and an entity is restricting them...
What we say is just what could happen in a near future with such restriction... as we saw them in the last centuries...
A way to exchange in a topic that you may not be familiar with...

As for Chinese MUSLIMS , they do accept other CHINESE BELIEF so in that logic YOU SHOULD ACCEPT their belief too...
Stop comparing yourself with others... we are speaking about Chinese ppl... I do not compare myself to you, neither you to me... this isn't the point...

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## Rasengan

Char said:


> The separatists used the religion from the beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually there's no freedom of religious but freedom of believe, that's different.



Freedom of belief means nothing to a person when he can't practice his faith.

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## HannibalBarca

Rasengan said:


> This is one of the major flaws in the thinking of Chinese policymakers. They look at the world under one prism without realizing the separate nature of Muslims and the West. This explains why the Chinese continue to fail to project a soft image in comparison to the American's who are obviously more aggressive in subjugating other states. I have mentioned this many times on this forum to Chinese members and even to my personal friends. HK is a prime example. The Chinese Govt didn't win the narrative. They are making the same mistake in Xinjiang. Like you said in your post their lack of knowledge of Islam is weakening their position. They can easily invite moderate imams to these educational centers and allow them to explain how terrorism is wrong in Islam with verses from the Quran and the Hadith. But if the Chinese Govt refuses this solution then they only have themselves to blame. Muslims will continue to point fingers and there will come a time when the people will force there respective Govt's to take certain actions against China.
> 
> Xinjiang doesn't even come close to the problems faced by Pakistan back in 2008-2011. We used force against terrorists but we also educated them on the doctrine of Islam which forbids taking arms against the state when the freedom to practice the five pillars of Islam is there.



It's a problem of Ego... They believe they can do it alone... with no help. They lack Experience in that matter... But they will learn, as their forefathers did... let's hope they take the good decision in Time... and not push it where dialog will be of no use anymore...

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## Rasengan

Char said:


> The separatists used the religion from the beginning.
> .



The separatist never used religion from the beginning. You are a Chinese person and your knowledge is rather lacking on this issue. Who started attacking first? Oh, yeah, it was during the cultural revolution where Muslims such as the Uighurs were targeted for there beliefs along with other religious groups. The people who started the mess was the CPC themselves.

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## prashantazazel

How many Islamic countries allow others(or even their citizens) to preach atheism?
Most don't allow people to be vocal atheists.

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## Rasengan

HannibalBarca said:


> It's a problem of Ego... They believe they can do it alone... with no help. They lack Experience in that matter... But they will learn, as their forefathers did... let's hope they take the good decision in Time... and not push it where dialog will be of no use anymore...



This is the problem with most Chinese dynasties. They were so consumed with the Middle Kingdom that they forgot about the rest of the world. This as we all know it led to the 100 years of humiliation for China, a very dark period in their history. They will have to change and in my opinion, this will slowly evolve when the next generation comes into power. You have to remember much of the Chinese leadership comes from the period of the cultural revolution. Their thinking is limited and narrow.

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## HannibalBarca

Rasengan said:


> This is the problem with most Chinese dynasties. They were so consumed with the Middle Kingdom that they forgot about the rest of the world. This as we all know it led to the 100 years of humiliation for China, a very dark period in their history. They will have to change and in my opinion, this will slowly evolve when the next generation comes into power. You have to remember much of the Chinese leadership comes from the period of the cultural revolution. Their thinking is limited and narrow.


Well... I don't know how it will turn out at this rate... will the next gen ever have a chance to make it right before it's too late...
They don't seem to grasp the importance of what they are doing... When religion is being used as a rally... Things can spiral out quickly...very quickly... even more when they are creating a pool of a million people to act later on...

They are literally serving to those separatist potential combatant in a silver plate...
Now that the "Jihadist" are being pushed out of ME... those guys gonna find another way to express their behavior/ideology... added to it Afghanistan... and you have it... the next Hotspot...

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## Char

Rasengan said:


> The separatist never used religion from the beginning. You are a Chinese person and your knowledge is rather lacking on this issue. Who started attacking first? Oh, yeah, it was during the cultural revolution where Muslims such as the Uighurs were targeted for there beliefs along with other religious groups. The people who started the mess was the CPC themselves.



During WW 1 Ottoman began to support separatists in Xinjiang, you are not chinese so you are lacking on this issue.

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## HannibalBarca

Char said:


> During WW 1 Ottoman began to support separatists in Xinjiang, you are not chinese so you are lacking on this issue.


I don't know which book... but The one supporting the Uighur was Russia and later the Soviet Union...


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## beijingwalker

China is alwys growing with foreign slandering, smearing and threatening. We saw the worse in the past, we ignored them and concentrated on developing ourselves. Let them cry us a river, but still not able to court even one Muslim nation in the world to support them over Xinjiang , so the best they can do is to get a Turkish footballer , Lol..

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## HannibalBarca

thewayoftheworld said:


> Muslim countries are hypocrites. In all Islam dominant countries, they restrict other people and their belief. Show me a Muslim society where other belief are equally respected. Islam like Christianity did not expand by peace but through dominations and submission of local societies. In Indonesia, they can't even stand a statue of Guan Yu. Muslims love to play victim but they are a huge perpetrator of intolerance. China is a secular state like much of East Asia. If these people like Turkey they should move there


Did you even read yourself...
Are you the type of guy to eat noodles with pasta?


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## vi-va

IlyasMyHero said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion
> 
> Freedom of religion is considered by many people and most of the nations to be a fundamental human right.[2]


No one ask your religion in China. I have Muslim friends, I lived with Muslim workmate under same root in a apartment, I have Muslim classmate in my primary school, college. We just eat separately in different cafeteria.

No one ask, no one bother. There is completely free religion, unless you make other people's life hard.

You are such a liar, and full of propaganda and hatred.

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## HannibalBarca

viva_zhao said:


> No one ask your religion in China. I have Muslim friends, I lived with Muslim workmate under same root in a apartment, I have Muslim classmate in my primary school, college. We just eat separately in different cafeteria.
> 
> No one ask, no one bother. There is completely free religion, unless you make other people's life hard.
> 
> You are such a liar, and full of propaganda and hatred.


DId you ever take a moment and ask how they practiced their religion? 
Having them next door or with doesn't mean they can "PRACTICE" their religion without restriction...


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## vi-va

HannibalBarca said:


> DId you ever take a moment and ask how they practiced their religion?
> Having them next door or with doesn't mean they can "PRACTICE" their religion without restriction...


have you ever take a trip to China or just be a keyboard warrior bashing China all day long? Have you ever talked with many Chinese Muslim and asked what they want? or you just believe they will think the same like you?
There are Muslims who are very religious, there are many Muslim who are not that religious. You can call the later non Muslim or whatever you can label, have you ever talked with them before make a judgement?

I have much more contacts with them than you do, who is just sitting in front a screen, knew very little about China religious history, nor people. Have you ever traveled to many places of China? Did you know what they want the most?

Have you ever considered China international environment? What China needed the most?

Have you condemn your silly government who give Turkey passport to Chinese Uighur in Thailand? Those are terrorist, did you know? 

You knew so little, but dare not to make a judgement. How blinded you are?

https://www.ft.com/content/93607210-285c-11e5-8613-e7aedbb7bdb7
*Uyghur Muslims Detained in Turkey as They Attempt the Hajj*
Bangkok shrine bombing

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## HannibalBarca

viva_zhao said:


> have you ever take a trip to China or just be a keyboard warrior bashing China all day long? Have you ever talked with many Chinese Muslim and asked what they want? or you just believe they will think the same like you?
> There are Muslims who are very religious, there are many Muslim who are not that religious. You can call the later non Muslim or whatever you can label, have you ever talked with them before make a judgement?
> 
> I have much more contacts with them than you do, who is just sitting in front a screen, knew very little about China religious history, nor people. Have you ever traveled to many places of China? Did you know what they want the most?
> 
> Have you ever considered China international environment? What China needed the most?
> 
> Have you condemn your silly government who give Turkey passport to Chinese Uighur in Thailand? Those are terrorist, did you know?
> 
> You knew so little, but dare not to make a judgement. How blinded you are?
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/93607210-285c-11e5-8613-e7aedbb7bdb7
> *Uyghur Muslims Detained in Turkey as They Attempt the Hajj*
> Bangkok shrine bombing



So you didn't...


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## vi-va

HannibalBarca said:


> So you didn't...


come on. I have friends who are Muslim, how come I didn't? There are hundreds of thousands Muslim in my hometown, or Beijing. Some pray, some not. Some eat halal food only, some drink alcohol. They claim they are Muslim. In Central Asia, such as Kazakhstan, most of them drink alcohol.

There are more than a billion Muslim across the world, with different cultural, back ground, history. 

Why they should behave like you do, or you want? That's your so called multiculturalism? or toleration? or freedom?

They pray or not pray, is their choice. Why you think you have a right to judge? Who are you? You are nobody, no one care what you think literally. I am nobody, no one care what I think.

If you truly believe freedom of religion, than you should NOT force other people to behave like or not like Muslim. They are free man.

I told you many times, no one in China care what they believe as long as they do NOT make other people's life hard.

I don't care neither, but I do care if they point finger to me, and ask me to behave. If they ask me to respect them, then they must respect my freedom without any concession. 

My freedom is well protected in China, under Chinese law, Chinese Muslim has much more rights and privilege, which I hate, because it is against my principle, Chinese Muslim should be treated equally.

Last but not least, your ally US has killed millions of Muslim, and Isreal is killing Muslim everyday, but Turkey still NATO member, provide Incirlik Air Base, help US killing machine running. 

Do you have any shame? just a little bit?

Close *Incirlik Air Base*, then come back to me.

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## Viva_Viet

Then just open re educational camps in every Muslim countries and put all Cnese living,travelling to Muslim world in the camps. Thats fair and square.

Ozil can donate some re education camps for Cnese in Turkey and German and tell the police to put all Cnese in German and Turkey into the camps

All Cnese here love the re education camps, so they wont refuse to stay in re education camp in Muslim wolrd.

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## vi-va

Viva_Viet said:


> Then just open re educational camps in every Muslim countries and put all Cnese living,travelling to Muslim world in the camps. Thats fair and square.
> 
> Ozil can donate some re education camps for Cnese in Turkey and German and tell the police to put all Cnese in German and Turkey into the camps
> 
> All Cnese here love the re education camps, so they wont refuse to stay in re education camp in Muslim wolrd.


Vietnam sardine in UK truck are well preserved, frozen. Satisfied?

Vietnam lived under Chinese mercy, did you know that? Without Chinese help, Vietnam will be separated as North Vietnam and South Vietnam, and colonized by US. Be grateful, please.


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## Viva_Viet

viva_zhao said:


> . Be grateful, please.


Dont de rail the thread, u r violating forum rules.

VN is not related to this thread.

Ozil should open re education camp in Turkey , German and put all Cnese there into the camps. And Cnese will surely respect Muslim world after graduated from the camps

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## vi-va

Viva_Viet said:


> Dont de rail the thread, u r violating forum rules.
> 
> VN is not related to this thread.
> 
> Ozil should open re education camp in Turkey , Gemran and put all Cnese there into the camps. And Cnese will surely respect Muslim world after graduated from the camps


Why not, they all carry a Chinese passport, lock them as soon as possible. Oh, no, they are actually Vietnamese.

Like my joke? please thumb up.


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## Viva_Viet

viva_zhao said:


> Why not, they all carry a Chinese passport, lock them as soon as possible. Oh, no, they are actually Vietnamese.
> 
> Like my joke? please thumb up.


Then I just simply put u on my ignore list, I dont see any Cnese comments now.

Back to the topic. Just open re education camps for Cnese in every Muslim countries, then they will respect Uighurs bros after graduated from the camp.

Ozil is rich, he can build 10 re education camps for Cnese to learn more abt Muslim

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## vi-va

Viva_Viet said:


> Then I just simply put u on my ignore list, I dont see any Cnese comments now.
> 
> Back to the topic. Just open re education camps for Cnese in every Muslim countries, then they will respect Uighurs bros after graduated from the camp.
> 
> Ozil is rich, he can build 10 re education camps for Cnese to learn more abt Muslim


Those who hold Chinese passport, but actually Vietnamese, eager to go to rich countries. They have better chance to meet Ozil. Don't humiliate yourself here.


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## Viet

FedererExpress said:


> Mesut Özil is a hero. He won’t be bought off by CCP dirty money like many Muslim countries have been. Go on ya mate.


Mesut was a great football player. Unfortunately he ruined his image during the World Cup.


Juggernaut_is_here said:


> you are witty


Majority of chinese are atheists.

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## Nan Yang

Viva_Viet said:


> Then just open re educational camps in every Muslim countries and put all Cnese living,travelling to Muslim world in the camps. Thats fair and square.
> 
> Ozil can donate some re education camps for Cnese in Turkey and German and tell the police to put all Cnese in German and Turkey into the camps
> 
> All Cnese here love the re education camps, so they wont refuse to stay in re education camp in Muslim wolrd.


Do Chinese go around slashing, bombing and killing innocent people including women and children?



HannibalBarca said:


> They think the Muslim word is equal to the Western one in behavior... They are seeing the World with one Optic... "China vs Not China" and therefore putting everyone behavior in the same bag... and they are taking the US as the primary exemple to apply to everyone...
> 
> They don't want to see that the Muslim world is trying what it can to make things right, like not taking direct stance against what is happening and pushing for a dialog While keeping exchanges going... But still they seems to find it impossible to grasp... or refuse to accept it as a gesture to find a solution.
> 
> As for Islam... The lack of Knowledge about Islam also play a huge role in their understand of the Dynamic of what is happening... Their only source of Islam is also under one primary exemple... and that's the US... Even though they have a very long History with Muslims in their own country... more than any other Western country combined... and yet it seems whatever is Pre-Communist China is thrown out of the window... as if it's outdated/useless...


Islamist terrorists make a mistake thinking they can slash, bomb, run down women and children in China. They think China is like Western country where they can hide behind Western freedom and human rights. China is a different country. Good luck with your jihad.


----------



## Sehnsucht

viva_zhao said:


> Those who hold Chinese passport, but actually Vietnamese, eager to go to rich countries


I notice you're also living in one of these rich countries.Are you a Vietnamese holding a Chinese passport too by any chance?


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## Clutch

Nan Yang said:


> Do Chinese go around slashing, bombing and killing innocent people including women and children?



Yes... 
*Nine schoolchildren killed in China knife attack blamed on angry former pupil*
The 28-year-old suspect, believed to have been bullied when studying at the school, is held after nine current pupils are killed and 12 injured in rampage
https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/pol...hoolchildren-killed-china-knife-attack-blamed

Democracy Dies in Darkness

Newsletters & Alerts
Gift subscriptions
Contact us
Help desk
*More than 50 children and teachers hospitalized in China after kindergarten attack*
(iStock)
(iStock)
By 
Anna Fifield 
November 12, 2019 at 5:16 a.m. MST
BEIJING — More than 50 people, almost all of them young children, were hospitalized in southwest China on Tuesday after a man broke into a kindergarten and sprayed them with a corrosive chemical as “revenge on society.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...8bd476-052e-11ea-9118-25d6bd37dfb1_story.html



Crimes against humanity have occurred under various Communist regimes. Actions such as forced deportations, massacres, torture, forced disappearances, extrajudicial killings, terror,[1] ethnic cleansing, enslavement, and the deliberate starvation of people such as during the Holodomor and the Great Leap Forward have been described as crimes against humanity.[2][

*The Chinese Communist Party is a Demon that Imperils Humanity*
Speech delivered at the “April 25th” Anti-Persecution Rally, New York, April 23rd, 2017


Ladies and gentlemen:

Greetings, everybody!

On behalf of World Organization to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong (WOIPFG),

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## vi-va

Petrichor said:


> I notice you're also living in one of these rich countries.Are you a Vietnamese holding a Chinese passport too by any chance?


No, I am Chinese, all the Chinese members knew I am 100% Chinese. and I am also a veteran. I did my duty to defend my country.


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## God Parshuram

Petrichor said:


> China & India is same in this regard.What you're doing in Kashmir, China is doing it in Xinjiang, albeit in a bigger scale.



We just fight with the guys with gun in their hand after giving them all the chance to come in main stream. We do not have concentration camps for any Indian citizens.


----------



## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang Sees No Violent Terrorist Incident for 3 Years*

That is something that the west can't bear to see, a peaceful, safe and prosperous Xinjiang.

*



*

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## fisher1

viva_zhao said:


> No one ask your religion in China. I have Muslim friends, I lived with Muslim workmate under same root in a apartment, I have Muslim classmate in my primary school, college. We just eat separately in different cafeteria.
> 
> No one ask, no one bother. There is completely free religion, unless you make other people's life hard.
> 
> You are such a liar, and full of propaganda and hatred.



I am starting to think that you've serious comprehension issues or using Google translate.

My special snowflake! We're talking about Uighurs. Not your Muslim friends next door in wherever the F but not Xinjiang 

Uighurs, Xinjiang, Urumqi, Id kah mosque, Kashgar.

These are the hotpots of Chinese holocaust 2.0 on Muslims.

Tell me, can Muslims pray in Id kah mosque? Can they grow beard? Can they recite Holy Quran in Muslim dominated Xinjiang? Can they fast? Can Azan be called?

Stop derailing the thread with your nonsense. Every Chinese here is guilty of this nonsense.



Nan Yang said:


> Islamist terrorists make a mistake thinking they can slash, bomb, run down women and children in China. They think China is like Western country where they can hide behind Western freedom and human rights. China is a different country. Good luck with your jihad.





casual said:


> not if the religion preaches hate, intolerance, and separatism.



@Dubious @waz

This has become a religion bashing thread now.

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## fisher1

God Parshuram said:


> We just fight with the guys with gun in their hand after giving them all the chance to come in main stream. We do not have concentration camps for any Indian citizens.



For now. Indian is following the devil i mean China slowly. 

Just read news a couple days ago that a mosque in Kashmir has been completely closed off and no prayers for months now.


----------



## Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8

China has given the blueprint to the world for peaceful coexistence between Muslims and Non-Muslims. Well a begrudging thank-you for that


----------



## 艹艹艹

2000 years ago in xinjiang has been under the jurisdiction of the Han empire
Where were the turks at that time?

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## waz

*Xinjiang threads in here please. 
*


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## Pakistani Fighter

waz said:


> *Xinjiang threads in here please. *


Why dont u speak for Uighur Muslims like u speak for Kashmiri ones?

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## waz

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Why dont u speak for Uighur Muslims like u speak for Kashmiri ones?




What a stupid post.

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## Sehnsucht

waz said:


> What a stupid post.


Whatever he posted, doesn't merit a negative rating.Nor does it go against any forum laws I believe.

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## waz

Petrichor said:


> Whatever he posted, doesn't merit a negative rating.



I took it away.

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## Sehnsucht

waz said:


> I took it away.


Many thanks.

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## God Parshuram

IlyasMyHero said:


> For now. Indian is following the devil i mean China slowly.
> 
> Just read news a couple days ago that a mosque in Kashmir has been completely closed off and no prayers for months now.



There has been no prayer in temples for 3 and half decades. All mosques are open except those who provokes people. We have to do this because we don't kidnap people and make them disappear or shoot them after kidnapping.


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## HannibalBarca

God Parshuram said:


> There has been no prayer in temples for 3 and half decades. All mosques are open except those who provokes people. We have to do this because we don't kidnap people and make them disappear or shoot them after kidnapping.


You guys aren't far from others tbh... Whatever it's in Kashmir or recent Anti-Muslim policies...

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## Dubious

viva_zhao said:


> No, I am Chinese, all the Chinese members knew I am 100% Chinese. and I am also a veteran. I did my duty to defend my country.


Defend it by joining a service not online!



viva_zhao said:


> They pray or not pray, is their choice.


Does China give them a choice? Or locks them up and for choosing to pray?

*Next person to associate Terrorism with Islam will be banned without a warning! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!*

*Terrorism is a disease without a religion, sect, nation, people...*

*Anyone trying to associate it with something WILL be banned!*

*It is like saying just coz some Chinese sold Pakistani brides all Chinese around the globe are pimps!*

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## Flash_Ninja

viva_zhao said:


> Pakistan do have educational facility to transform those misled rebellions. I remembered there are youtube video introduce those facility. I think it's in Baluchistan.
> I may find it later if needed. I saw those video a couple of month ago.



They are called deradicalisation centres, specifically for those deluded enough to do suicide bombings. Its more like therapy though because a lot of the time suicide bombers are just scared kids brainwashed into thinking its the right thing to do.

Its not the same thing, not even close to internment camps.


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## Rasengan

HannibalBarca said:


> Well... I don't know how it will turn out at this rate... will the next gen ever have a chance to make it right before it's too late...
> They don't seem to grasp the importance of what they are doing... When religion is being used as a rally... Things can spiral out quickly...very quickly... even more when they are creating a pool of a million people to act later on...
> 
> They are literally serving to those separatist potential combatant in a silver plate...
> Now that the "Jihadist" are being pushed out of ME... those guys gonna find another way to express their behavior/ideology... added to it Afghanistan... and you have it... the next Hotspot...



This is a very good question. You have to remember what China was like during the 60s and 70s. Religion was banned completely under Chairman Mao. But in the current period, this policy has reversed. In Beijing, the local Govt has funded the renovation of numerous Mosques. Thus, China isn't against Muslims on the basis of their religion but they feel anxious when it comes to the Uyghurs because of there voice of independence. If the rumours are true in Xinjiang then their strategy is completely wrong. However, I do firmly believe in the idea if China can change after the events of the cultural revolution then the same can happen in Xinjiang when a new leadership which isn't connected to the old way of thinking takes office.

They don't seem to grasp the importance of what they are doing wrong is because they are following the cultural values that were taught to them from there books. For example, the Chinese Govt call themselves communists but anyone with a decent bit of knowledge knows they still follow legalism. Rebellion needs to be stamped out at all costs to maintain the law and order of the land. This is the philosophy of legalism.

We both understand how the Chinese Govt's actions if true are serving the interests of the terrorists. America must be rubbing its hands in excitement because it's good at manipulating and funding groups to serve its interests. They are much better and more experience than the Chinese at playing this game. It's their choice but when shit hits the fan then they can only blame themselves. I hope that doesn't happen.



Char said:


> During WW 1 Ottoman began to support separatists in Xinjiang, you are not chinese so you are lacking on this issue.



Last time I checked the CPC Govt wasn't in power during the first world war. This just show's how desperate you are my dear brother. When the CPC took power they had an opportunity to create harmony but we all know how Mao destroyed such a chance by attacking religious communities. So you can huff and puff as much as you want but you can't deny it was the CPC themselves who created the mess. Now read what I said carefully and think outside the box.

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## Dubious

long_ said:


> Without the help of some Pakistanis, I don't think this deal can be realized


I said it is the same as saying so! NOW going by YOUR thinking : they should be no bashing of Chinese people if Chinese people themselves dont start attacking others for questioning!


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## Char

Rasengan said:


> Freedom of belief means nothing to a person when he can't practice his faith.



Muslim in China is more safe and free than atheist in Muslim countries, if you don't give up your double standard I'm not surprised one day India, China, Russia, Europe ,Sub Africa will reach consensus to deal with Muslim.

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## HannibalBarca

Char said:


> Muslim in China is more safe and free than atheist in Muslim countries, if you don't give up your double standard I'm not surprised one day India, China, Russia, Europe ,Sub Africa will reach consensus to deal with Muslim.



When a Human is born... 
He believe to be the first... 
Till he's reminded that he was last...

Before you they Tried and After you they will try...
But the Answer will be the same...
You will be forgotten and Islam remembered...

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## Rasengan

Char said:


> Muslim in China is more safe and free than atheist in Muslim countries, if you don't give up your double standard I'm not surprised one day India, China, Russia, Europe ,Sub Africa will reach consensus to deal with Muslim.




What double standards are you talking about? You can't answer a simple question you become too defensive. This is why China finds it difficult to project a soft image across the world. You have been sitting inside China twiddling your thumbs. I have defended China's interests abroad when groups like Falun Gong have spread propaganda in the west. So spear me your bullshit of double standards. If you bothered to read my post properly then you would have realized I had provided a good solution for the Chinese Govt. 

How will they deal with Muslims? Most of the world's resources are held in Muslim countries. China wants some of that pie but you must play ball otherwise those contracts will be given to the Americans and the Europeans. You also forget the Muslim world is changing. A strong economic alliance is forming between Pakistan, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia. This small block in the long term will expand just like the EU.
What you must worry about is the million strong-armed men across the border in Afghanistan that can cause chaos in Xinjiang. And let me tell you something brother, these people love to fight. In the last 50 years, they have defeated the Soviet Union and now the Americans with there western allies. All those countries you have mentioned that will reach a consensus to deal with Muslim's have one thing in common. They all hate China's guts. They will strike a deal with Muslim's to cause problems for China and don't think it can't happen because the American's are expert at this game.

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## fisher1

Char said:


> Muslim in China is more safe and free than atheist in Muslim countries, if you don't give up your double standard I'm not surprised one day India, China, Russia, Europe ,Sub Africa will reach consensus to deal with Muslim.



What a load of bollocks.

Sounds like CCP brainwashing propaganda.

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## fisher1

Attila the Hun said:


> How sad must one be to even consider buying a bride abroad. Do Chinese women not like Chinese men or what?



Dude, these were criminals involved in human trafficking. They didn't really care about marrying.


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## Dubious

long_ said:


> Without the help of some Pakistanis, I don't think this deal can be realized


What deal? Your people selling women of another nation is NOT A DEAL!

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## Uguduwa

my chinese girlfriend has some opinions about muslims. some good. most of them are bad. if i learnt anything from her, it's that they think differently so these pakistanis who are knee down in this problem should know that they dont know jack they are talking about. you cant bring middle eastern mindset to far east. doesnt work that way.


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## fisher1

Uguduwa said:


> my chinese girlfriend has some opinions about muslims. some good. most of them are bad. if i learnt anything from her, it's that they think differently so these pakistanis who are knee down in this problem should know that they dont know jack they are talking about. you cant bring middle eastern mindset to far east. doesnt work that way.



So your girlfriend is a racist and you learned racism from her instead of actually learning about Islam and Muslims? 

I don't blame you, in China nothing except communism is available for study.


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## HannibalBarca

Uguduwa said:


> my chinese girlfriend has some opinions about muslims. some good. most of them are bad. if i learnt anything from her, it's that they think differently so these pakistanis who are knee down in this problem should know that they dont know jack they are talking about. you cant bring middle eastern mindset to far east. doesnt work that way.



I learned from a prey what it's like to be a predator...

I learned from the nazis what is like to be jew...

I learned from Staline what is like to be free...

I learned from a middle school dropout what is like to get a Phd...

#learnwithmeabouttheworld

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## Uguduwa

HannibalBarca said:


> I learned from a prey what it's like to be a predator...
> 
> I learned from the nazis what is like to be jew...
> 
> I learned from Staline what is like to be free...
> 
> I learned from a middle school dropout what is like to get a Phd...
> 
> #learnwithmeabouttheworld


you try so hard to be an edgelord bro but you failed even harder. you confused predator and prey


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## HannibalBarca

Uguduwa said:


> you try so hard to be an edgelord bro but you failed even harder. you confused predator and prey


You didn't understand, do you?
You thought it was an absurd statement I was making... in contrast to your post... right.

...
..
.

I was just trying to highlight your "sources"... But Maybe it's not an exercise that you are familiar with... But Here among ppl of Knowledge... Gossips and Subjectivity aren't a source of truth... neither a way to search for it...
But I do understand... That to fulfill a primary desire against a particular object... it is the way to go... the easiest way to do... Therefore making your stance irrelevant in our discussion... and strip you of any credibility here and elsewhere...

But you don't seems to care... as long as your inner feelings are answered... the big picture can go to hell...
So if you hoped to make your case/pov widely accepted among ppl and therefore hoping to rally many with your cause... then be assured... that... you failed.

"A Hungry Desire is The selfish weapon of the losing side..."


----------



## Uguduwa

HannibalBarca said:


> You didn't understand, do you?
> You thought it was an absurd statement I was making... in contrast to your post... right.
> 
> ...
> ..
> .
> 
> I was just trying to highlight your "sources"... But Maybe it's not an exercise that you are familiar with... But Here among ppl of Knowledge... Gossips and Subjectivity aren't a source of truth... neither a way to search for it...
> But I do understand... That to fulfill a primary desire against a particular object... it is the way to go... the easiest way to do... Therefore making your stance irrelevant in our discussion... and strip you of any credibility here and elsewhere...
> 
> But you don't seems to care... as long as your inner feelings are answered... the big picture can go to hell...
> So if you hoped to make your case/pov widely accepted among ppl and therefore hoping to rally many with your cause... then be assured... that... you failed.
> 
> "A Hungry Desire is The selfish weapon of the losing side..."


i understand but you dont have be so edgy though. so whats wrong with my baby having an opinion for herself?


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## HannibalBarca

Uguduwa said:


> i understand but you dont have be so edgy though. so whats wrong with my baby having an opinion for herself?


See... again... It wasn't about your gf either... She can have every opinion she wants... she wasn't and will never be the subject... as she isn't here to express herself... neither can we be sure of her existence and therefore her opinion...
It's about your behavior on that piece of opinion...


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## Attila the Hun

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1207358122932744193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1207371740504109057
Just like the Rohingya the Muslim world is very silent again.. why?

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## Pakistani Fighter

Attila the Hun said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1207358122932744193
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1207371740504109057
> Just like the Rohingya the Muslim world is very silent again.. why?


But unlike Pakistanis, other muslims do pray for Uighurs

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## Attila the Hun

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> But unlike Pakistanis, other muslims do pray for Uighurs


I am a destroyer of Chinese fake news. I will make all see

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## Black_cats

*PACIFIC*
*China Using Tibet Oppression Model To Silence Uighur Muslims*



Published

3 hours ago
on

December 20, 2019
By

EurAsian Times
*China considers its strategies in Tibet a success and replicates the same repressive policies in Xinjiang against Uighur Muslims, said a US expert. According to multiple sources, Chian has detained over one million Uighur Muslims in what they call as re-education camps.*

China Has Detained Over 3 Million Uighur Muslims; Did Pakistan Call It ‘Remarkable Achievement’?


Speaking at Hudson Institute, Ambassador at large for International Religious Freedom Sam Brownback said China is waging a losing “war on faith, truth and international norms.” Brownback highlighted “human rights violations and abuses of China” against Uighurs in mass detention in Xinjiang, a Turkic people in the northwest.

Brownback said 1 million Uighurs, since April 2017, in the name of China’s countering religious extremism and war on terror, have been forced to part ways with their religious traditions in internment camps, which are officially called the Vocational Education and Training Centers by the Chinese government.

He stressed that various U.S. federal agencies have slapped sanctions on China and Chinese officials to raise awareness and minimize the repression of Xinjiang residents, which he said are “no longer allegations” but “eyewitness testimonies.”

With Anti Islam Drive, Hui Muslims in China Under Severe Threat and Persecution


Drawing parallels between Chinese policies in Xinjiang and Tibet, Brownback urged panelists to take note of the name of one particular Chinese official who oversees Xinjiang affairs, Chen Quanguo.

He was first placed in Tibet to test a massive grid of physical and technological surveillance and life in Tibet, including religious life, was forever transformed, the ambassador said.

“Considered it a success, Chen took his playbook to Xinjiang, amplifying his tactics at an unfathomable scale,” he added.

Other names on the panel included Axios reporter Bethany Allen-Ebrahimian, Hudson senior fellows Eric Brown and Nina Shea, Uyghur Human Rights Project Board Chair Nury Turkel, and Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation senior fellow Adrian Zenz.

They drew attention to recently leaked documents exposing China’s strategy of “implementing the largest-scale persecution of a distinct ethnic-religious group since the end of World War II.”

Cloud Over Dalai Lama’s Successor But China Aggressively Promoting Buddhism In Asia


*Trade War*
Early this month, the U.S. House of Representatives passed the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act that places sanctions on Chinese officials responsible for human rights abuses.

China, however, has long criticized the U.S. for meddling in its internal affairs and using the Uighur card as part of its propaganda against the Asian nation at a time when the U.S. itself has “accidentally” killed a countless number of civilians in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere by drones and bombs.

The administration of U.S. President Donald Trump has designated China a strategic rival to U.S. interests since he took office and the two giant competitors are in the midst of a major, on and off-trade war.

China’s western Xinjiang region is home to 10 million Uighurs. The Turkic Muslim group, which makes up around 45% of Xinjiang’s population, has long accused China’s authorities of cultural, religious and economic discrimination.

China is accused by the UN and myriad other states and groups of carrying out repressive policies against the Uighurs and restraining their religious, commercial and cultural rights.

China Thanks UAE For Supporting Crackdown On Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang Province


Up to 1 million people, or about 7% of the Muslim population in Xinjiang, have been incarcerated in an expanding network of camps, according to U.S. officials and UN experts. In a report last September on Uighurs, Human Rights Watch accused the Chinese government of carrying out a “systematic campaign of human rights violations.”

China, which desperately needs the rich natural resources of Xinjiang to fuel its economic growth and demand, denies any charge, claiming Uighurs are being educated in “vocational training centers.”

_Vakkas Doğantekin for Anadolu Agency_

https://eurasiantimes.com/china-using-tibet-oppression-model-to-silence-uighur-muslims/

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## damm1t

Chinese member comes to thread...

- Looks at the source of article, origin country
- Looks at the author and where he is from

If Usa and Europe ;
- Western propaganda

If Turkey ;
- Turks opress Kurds bla bla. Shares some article about this.

If 3rd country ;
- Rejects and blames for believing Western propaganda.

In all cases, China doesn't do anything bad and loves all his minorities, equally minorities love mainland China too. Everyone is lying.

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## python-000

Black_cats said:


> *PACIFIC*
> *China Using Tibet Oppression Model To Silence Uighur Muslims*
> 
> 
> 
> Published
> 
> 3 hours ago
> on
> 
> December 20, 2019
> By
> 
> EurAsian Times
> *China considers its strategies in Tibet a success and replicates the same repressive policies in Xinjiang against Uighur Muslims, said a US expert. According to multiple sources, Chian has detained over one million Uighur Muslims in what they call as re-education camps.*
> 
> China Has Detained Over 3 Million Uighur Muslims; Did Pakistan Call It ‘Remarkable Achievement’?
> 
> 
> Speaking at Hudson Institute, Ambassador at large for International Religious Freedom Sam Brownback said China is waging a losing “war on faith, truth and international norms.” Brownback highlighted “human rights violations and abuses of China” against Uighurs in mass detention in Xinjiang, a Turkic people in the northwest.
> 
> Brownback said 1 million Uighurs, since April 2017, in the name of China’s countering religious extremism and war on terror, have been forced to part ways with their religious traditions in internment camps, which are officially called the Vocational Education and Training Centers by the Chinese government.
> 
> He stressed that various U.S. federal agencies have slapped sanctions on China and Chinese officials to raise awareness and minimize the repression of Xinjiang residents, which he said are “no longer allegations” but “eyewitness testimonies.”
> 
> With Anti Islam Drive, Hui Muslims in China Under Severe Threat and Persecution
> 
> 
> Drawing parallels between Chinese policies in Xinjiang and Tibet, Brownback urged panelists to take note of the name of one particular Chinese official who oversees Xinjiang affairs, Chen Quanguo.
> 
> He was first placed in Tibet to test a massive grid of physical and technological surveillance and life in Tibet, including religious life, was forever transformed, the ambassador said.
> 
> “Considered it a success, Chen took his playbook to Xinjiang, amplifying his tactics at an unfathomable scale,” he added.
> 
> Other names on the panel included Axios reporter Bethany Allen-Ebrahimian, Hudson senior fellows Eric Brown and Nina Shea, Uyghur Human Rights Project Board Chair Nury Turkel, and Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation senior fellow Adrian Zenz.
> 
> They drew attention to recently leaked documents exposing China’s strategy of “implementing the largest-scale persecution of a distinct ethnic-religious group since the end of World War II.”
> 
> Cloud Over Dalai Lama’s Successor But China Aggressively Promoting Buddhism In Asia
> 
> 
> *Trade War*
> Early this month, the U.S. House of Representatives passed the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act that places sanctions on Chinese officials responsible for human rights abuses.
> 
> China, however, has long criticized the U.S. for meddling in its internal affairs and using the Uighur card as part of its propaganda against the Asian nation at a time when the U.S. itself has “accidentally” killed a countless number of civilians in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere by drones and bombs.
> 
> The administration of U.S. President Donald Trump has designated China a strategic rival to U.S. interests since he took office and the two giant competitors are in the midst of a major, on and off-trade war.
> 
> China’s western Xinjiang region is home to 10 million Uighurs. The Turkic Muslim group, which makes up around 45% of Xinjiang’s population, has long accused China’s authorities of cultural, religious and economic discrimination.
> 
> China is accused by the UN and myriad other states and groups of carrying out repressive policies against the Uighurs and restraining their religious, commercial and cultural rights.
> 
> China Thanks UAE For Supporting Crackdown On Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang Province
> 
> 
> Up to 1 million people, or about 7% of the Muslim population in Xinjiang, have been incarcerated in an expanding network of camps, according to U.S. officials and UN experts. In a report last September on Uighurs, Human Rights Watch accused the Chinese government of carrying out a “systematic campaign of human rights violations.”
> 
> China, which desperately needs the rich natural resources of Xinjiang to fuel its economic growth and demand, denies any charge, claiming Uighurs are being educated in “vocational training centers.”
> 
> _Vakkas Doğantekin for Anadolu Agency_
> 
> https://eurasiantimes.com/china-using-tibet-oppression-model-to-silence-uighur-muslims/


my Question is why all only talking about uighur BUT not even say any single word about Kashmir & indian Muslims because they only want to target CHINA & PAKISTAN...



damm1t said:


> Chinese member comes to thread...
> 
> - Looks at the source of article, origin country
> - Looks at the author and where he is from
> 
> If Usa and Europe ;
> - Western propaganda
> 
> If Turkey ;
> - Turks opress Kurds bla bla. Shares some article about this.
> 
> If 3rd country ;
> - Rejects and blames for believing Western propaganda.
> 
> In all cases, China doesn't do anything bad and loves all his minorities, equally minorities love mainland China too. Everyone is lying.


And my Turkish brothers must see this situation...

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## atan651

A round of applause for a job well done!


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## Beast

damm1t said:


> Chinese member comes to thread...
> 
> - Looks at the source of article, origin country
> - Looks at the author and where he is from
> 
> If Usa and Europe ;
> - Western propaganda
> 
> If Turkey ;
> - Turks opress Kurds bla bla. Shares some article about this.
> 
> If 3rd country ;
> - Rejects and blames for believing Western propaganda.
> 
> In all cases, China doesn't do anything bad and loves all his minorities, equally minorities love mainland China too. Everyone is lying.


More like slayer cant accept Tibet and Xinjiang are stunning success by PRC transforming from backwards places to prosperity area with people standard of living even surpass Turkey.

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## FedererExpress

First it was the Tibetans, now it’s the Uyghurs. The ethnic cleansing and social credit system by the CCP will go from domestic to international very soon. All expansionist powers are like that. Communist China is an expansionist power. They are extremely dangerous and represents an existential threat to the world.

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## damm1t

python-000 said:


> my Question is why all only talking about uighur BUT not even say any single word about Kashmir & indian Muslims because they only want to target CHINA & PAKISTAN...
> 
> 
> And my Turkish brothers must see this situation...



I can speak only behalf myself, I openly support Pakistan on Kashmir issue here and there. And Turkey as a state openly supports Pakistan and critisize India.

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## Viva_Viet

python-000 said:


> my Question is why all only talking about uighur BUT not even say any single word about Kashmir & indian Muslims because they only want to target CHINA & PAKISTAN...
> 
> 
> ...


Cos this is CN & far east section while Kashmir in India belong to other section.

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## grandmaster

python-000 said:


> my Question is why all only talking about uighur BUT not even say any single word about Kashmir & indian Muslims because they only want to target CHINA & PAKISTAN...
> 
> 
> And my Turkish brothers must see this situation...


They are brainwashed to their bone marrow. What else in reality they can know besides Western propaganda?

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## Itachi

python-000 said:


> my Question is why all only talking about uighur BUT not even say any single word about Kashmir & indian Muslims because they only want to target CHINA & PAKISTAN...
> 
> 
> And my Turkish brothers must see this situation...



Western Media is reporting the Kashmiri cause & the recent Concentration Camps in India....now tell me, where did India get the idea to put Muslims in Concentration Camps??

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## Kaniska

Did any one from Muslim world raised their voice for Tibet?


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## Attila the Hun

Beast said:


> More like slayer cant accept Tibet and Xinjiang are stunning success by PRC transforming from backwards places to prosperity area with people standard of living even surpass Turkey.


Make of thread of where would people rather live. China or Turkey. 
No sane person would choose China over Turkey. China is joke compared.


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## Götterdämmerung

Attila the Hun said:


> Make of thread of where would people rather live. China or Turkey.
> No sane person would choose China over Turkey. China is joke compared.



How many foreign students are studying at a top 100 university in Turkey?

Oh right, zero, because you don't have any top 100 universtiy.

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## Attila the Hun

Götterdämmerung said:


> How many foreign students are studying at a top 100 university in Turkey?
> 
> Oh right, zero, because you don't have any top 100 universtiy.


Truth hurts you doesn't it. China is seen as a backward land. Turkey is where most wish to live(but can't).
Istanbul over any Chinese city.

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## Götterdämmerung

Attila the Hun said:


> Truth hurts you doesn't it. China is seen as a backward land. Turkey is where most wish to live(but can't).
> Istanbul over any Chinese city.



Why should I feel hurt? Millions of your people are living in my country and don't want to go back to their fantastic and progressive super modern country.

I would like to know why?

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## Götterdämmerung

Attila the Hun said:


> You're not German, no matter how hard you wish. You're a Chinese living in Germany because China itself is shit.
> Turks were invited to work in Germany in the 70s.



I couldn't care less what you think of me. I'm just stating facts, which you can't refute. You have zero top 100 university and millions of your people still live in my country.

We invited you as gastarbeiter aka guest worker and not as immigrants. And you know what? Guests normaly go home after a while and don't overstrain the host's hospitality.

As you claimed, your Turkey is such a much sought after country where people want to live, but millions of your people don't want to live there, it seems. LOL

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## Attila the Hun

Götterdämmerung said:


> I couldn't care less what you think of me. I'm just stating fact, which can't refute. You have zero top 100 university and millions of your people still live in my country.
> 
> We invited you as gastarbeiter aka guest worker and not as immigrants. And you know what? Guests normaly go home after a while and don't overstrain the host's hospitality.
> 
> As you claimed, your Turkey is such a much sought after country where people want to live, but millions of your people don't want to live there, it seems. LOL


You're not a bloody German, but a damn Chinese hahaha.
Turks were invited by Germans. What about Chinese? Why are you there? Why don't you go back to China if its amazing.
I only compare Turkey to China. I never said Turkey is the best place to live. Turks work and contribute to Germany and then go back home to Turkey. 
Again, I repeat. Turkey > China. I did not mention the world or Germany. Stupid Ugly Chinese pretending to be German lol


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## Götterdämmerung

Attila the Hun said:


> You're not a bloody German, but a damn Chinese hahaha.
> Turks were invited by Germans. What about Chinese? Why are you there? Why don't you go back to China if its amazing.
> I only compare Turkey to China. I never said Turkey is the best place to live. Turks work and contribute to Germany and then go back home to Turkey.
> Again, I repeat. Turkey > China. I did not mention the world or Germany. Stupid Ugly Chinese pretending to be German lol



All you do is to repeatedly deliver the proof why you don't and won't have a top 100 university. 

We invited you as guest workers, and guests should go home after a while.

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## Beast

Attila the Hun said:


> You're not German, no matter how hard you wish. You're a Chinese living in Germany because China itself is shit.
> Turks were invited to work in Germany in the 70s.


@waz @The Eagle @WebMaster 

Please take care of this insult and provoking statement. Will cleansed quote once insult is taken care of.


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## python-000

Itachi said:


> Western Media is reporting the Kashmiri cause & the recent Concentration Camps in India....now tell me, where did India get the idea to put Muslims in Concentration Camps??


from israel as they did with Philistine...


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## Attila the Hun

Götterdämmerung said:


> All you do is to repeatedly deliver the proof why you don't and won't have a top 100 university.
> 
> We invited you as guest workers, and guests should go home after a while.


The Turks were asked to bring their families and settle in Germany, and many others that were invited to Germany.
China is not liked by the world. You're all hated. Please change your flags, and stop pretending to be German. No sane German would ever defend Chinese backwardness.



Beast said:


> @waz @The Eagle @WebMaster
> 
> Please take care of this insult and provoking statement. Will cleansed quote once insult is taken care of.


What's wrong with what I said there?


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## fisher1

FedererExpress said:


> First it was the Tibetans, now it’s the Uyghurs. The ethnic cleansing and social credit system by the CCP will go from domestic to international very soon. All expansionist powers are like that. Communist China is an expansionist power. They are extremely dangerous and represents an existential threat to the world.



God, i hope not. This social credit system is a true nightmare.


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## Götterdämmerung

Attila the Hun said:


> The Turks were asked to bring their families and settle in Germany, and many others that were invited to Germany.
> China is not liked by the world. You're all hated. Please change your flags, and stop pretending to be German. No sane German would ever defend Chinese backwardness.



Let me check again ...

You still don't have a top 100 university. Fact!
Millions of your people still don't want to leave my country. Fact!

You can call me whatever you want, the two above facts still stand. Fact!


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## Itachi

python-000 said:


> from israel as they did with Philistine...



Palestine is more like a open prison....the Jews aren't trying to outright kill the population....not yet anyways. They want the land on which the Palestinians live but know that they can't commit open genocide, at least not yet...


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## Hamartia Antidote

Awesome masks





*Police gun drawn as Hong Kong rally for China’s Uygurs descends into chaos*

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## Itachi

*Sharing 2 articles in a single thread since they're correlated. 

*
*Ozil condemns Muslim silence over Uighurs*







*Arsenal’s Mesut Ozil, a German World Cup winning footballer has expressed his dismay over the treatment of the Uighurs. Ozil condemns Muslim leaders for their failure to speak up and stand up for them.*

In a tweet he posted on social media he said “Qur’ans are being burnt… Mosques are being shut down … Muslim schools are being banned … Religious scholars are being killed one by one … Brothers are forcefully being sent to camps,”

“Yet, the Muslims are silent. Their voice is not heard,” he wrote on a background of a blue field with a white crescent moon, the flag of what Uighur separatists call East Turkestan.

China has faced growing international condemnation for setting up a vast network of camps in Xinjiang aimed at homogenising the Uighur population to reflect China’s majority Han culture.

Rights groups and experts say more than one million Uighurs and people of other mostly Muslim ethnic minorities have been rounded up in the camps in the tightly-controlled region.

After initially denying the camps, China describes them as vocational schools aimed at dampening the allure of extremism and violence.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1205439723302469632
Turkey, which takes its name from Turkic people who migrated from central Asia, is home to a growing Uighur community and has regularly raised concerns about the situation in Xinjiang.

In his tweet, Ozil condemns Muslim leaders and said Western states and media had kept the Uighurs issue on their agenda and added: “what will be remembered years later would not be the torture by the tyrants but the silence of their Muslim brothers.”

Mezut Ozil is a global icon in the world of football, having played for Werder Bremen, Real Madrid, Arsenal and Shalke FC as well as winning the Fifa world cup with Germany in 2014.

The 31-year-old footballer, sparked controversy last year when he was photographed with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, raising questions about his loyalty to Germany on the eve of their 2018 World Cup campaign.

Ozil later quit the national squad, accusing German football officials of racism. Erdogan was Ozil’s best man when the footballer was married in Istanbul this year.


Last month, Congress passed — and President Donald Trump signed — legislation supporting anti-government protests in Hong Kong. China said Monday that it will suspend US military ship and aircraft visits to the semi-autonomous city and sanction several American pro-democracy and human rights groups in response to the move.

*Source:* https://wtxnews.com/2019/12/14/ozil-condemns-muslim-silence-over-uighurs/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Next Article*

*Hong Kong stands with Ozil & the Uighurs as violence erupts*

*Hong Kong riot police pepper-sprayed protesters to disperse crowds in the heart of the city’s financial district on Sunday after a largely peaceful rally in support of China’s ethnic Uighurs turned chaotic.*

*A mixed crowd of young and elderly people, dressed in black and wearing masks to shield their identities, held up signs reading “Free Uyghur, Free Hong Kong” and “Fake ‘autonomy’ in China results in genocide.”*

Hong Kong police marched across a public square overlooking Hong Kong’s harbour to face off with protesters who hurled glass bottles and rocks at them.

They resisted the urge to respond until protesters took down the Chinese national flag from a pole. This prompted an immediate scurry from the Riot police and one officer began pointed his gun towards the protesters. No reports of gunshot were made.

But that prompted more police officers to join the search for the flag and then found themselves outnumbered and surrounded by protesters.

Police officers panicked and hit the protesters with batons and pepper spray and raised a black flag warning of tear gas.

The police’s heavy-handed clampdown on demonstrations and frequent use of tear gas have incensed many protesters.





Earlier in the afternoon more than 1,000 people had rallied calmly, waving Uighur flags and posters, as they took part in the latest demonstration in over six months of unrest.

*“I think basic freedom and independence should exist for all people, not just for Hong Kong,” said a 41-year-old woman surnamed Wong who attended the protest with her husband.*

*The protest comes after Mesut Ozil, the Arsenal footballer, shared a social media post about the plight and persecution of the Uighurs in China. Ozil criticised the country’s policies toward the Muslim ethnic minority in the restive northwestern region of Xinjiang.*

*Ozil, a German Muslim of Turkish origin, tweeted that Uighurs were “warriors who resist persecution” and criticized both China’s strong hand in Xinjiang and the silence of Muslims leaders in response.*

Protests in Hong Kong are now in their seventh month, albeit in a relative year-end lull. Many residents are angry at what they see as Chinese meddling in the freedoms promised to the former British colony when it returned to Chinese rule in 1997.

China denies interfering and says it is committed to the “one country, two systems” formula put in place at that time and has blamed foreign forces for fomenting unrest.

On Saturday, Hong Kong riot police swept into several shopping malls, chasing off and arresting demonstrators pressing their demands in the peak shopping weekend before Christmas.

Source: https://wtxnews.com/2019/12/22/hong-kong-stands-with-ozil-the-uighurs-as-violence-erupts/

@Rusty @Ahmet Pasha @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @dexter @ghazi52 @Khafee @Yaseen1 @IlyasMyHero @Pakhtoon yum 

@waz @Dubious @Arsalan please keep this thread clear of trolls.

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## Itachi

Inb4 the pro-Chinese Chinese and Pakistani trolls. 


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252Fislam%252Fcomments%252Fee40yb%252F

Was reading r/Islam and saw this so thought I would post it here too.

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## YeBeWarned

Did he also talk about Kashmiri ? Rohingya ? Palestinian ? Syrian ? Chechen ?

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## Itachi

Starlord said:


> Did he also talk about Kashmiri ? Rohingya ? Palestinian ? Syrian ? Chechen ?



Here comes the first one....I call it the "But did he mention ALL of the groups being oppressed!??" cuz if not, he's a sham!

Seriously tho, does he have to mention all of them?? We all know about it....plus he's of Turkish origin, who do you think will he speak up for first??

Similarly, we Pakistanis, will speak up for Kashmiris first.

Either way, like my signature says...._I stand with all Oppressed Muslims around the World especially Kashmiris, Palestinians & Uyghurs. I don't selectively choose who to support like a hypocrite.
_
And believe me, most Muslims support all Muslims. 



dBSPL said:


> Gaza blockade? -Yeah, let's raise our voice against zionism.
> Kashmir case? -Kashmir is Muslim soil, let's fight.
> Concentration camps in India? -The administration of India is modern Nazism.
> 
> Uygur concentration camps? -Please shut up. You get lonely by doing that.
> 
> 
> Just like Cyprus, just like Karabakh, or as in the past in Girit, the Balkans and the Crimea... We know very well what the Islamophobic world and the so-called Muslim world are ignoring together as always. This event will cause the change of government in Turkey. Because Uygurs are the most derelict Muslims.




You summed it up...

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## JonAsad

200+ million soon to be oppressed indian muslims doesn't concern him?

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## Itachi

JonAsad said:


> 200+ million soon to be oppressed indian muslims doesn't concern him?



Read my post #4 right above you buddy....

We Muslims stand up for all Muslims. Try not to divide us like our leaders.


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## JonAsad

Itachi said:


> it....plus he's of Turkish origin, who do you think will he speak up for first??


Turkish are supposed to be our bestest friends.. why they want to make another of our bestest friend China angry?


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## Myth_buster_1

Itachi said:


> Read my post #4 right above you buddy....
> 
> We Muslims stand up for all Muslims. Try not to divide us like our leaders.


u keep standing for those muslims who will yet again boot ur 2ss when it comes to kashmir or indian agression. infact they will award ur master modi with medals and u will still b3nd over to them. 
pakistan should and must support china in every way for interest of pakistan.
trust me, the day pakistan starts to think for its own interest first will be the day when pakistan starts progressing..

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## Itachi

JonAsad said:


> Turkish are supposed to be our bestest friends.. why they want to make another of our bestest friend China angry?



First, there are no "friendships" in international geopolitics...China isn't our "friend".....we're in a mutually beneficial economic relationship...

In my opinion, Turks & Turkey are our brothers....they have stood for us before China stood with us...China is now oppressing the Uyghurs...ever since they took over their lands...I don't want to give you a history lesson but China didn't hold Xinjiang until the past 100-200 years....before that it was independent for most of its lifetime. 

Going back to the discussion, Turkey is standing up with Uyghurs just like it is standing up for Kashmiris because bros before $$$. Or so it should be in Islam....if you get my drift. 



Myth_buster_1 said:


> u keep standing for those muslims who will yet again boot ur 2ss when it comes to kashmir or indian agression. infact they will award ur master modi with medals and u will still b3nd over to them.
> pakistan should and must support china in every way for interest of pakistan.
> trust me, the day pakistan starts to think for its own interest first will be the day when pakistan starts progressing..



IK didn't even attend the Kuala Lumpur conference that stood with Kashmir while Turkey and many other Muslim nations did....Is Pakistan thinking about it's best interest in the first place?? 

You should ask that question instead of asking it to me....oh and you're reported for going personal. This is a online forum, not a brawl with the neighbors kid in the gali.

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## Myth_buster_1

Itachi said:


> First, there are no "friendships" in international geopolitics...China isn't our "friend".....we're in a mutually beneficial economic relationship...
> 
> In my opinion, Turks & Turkey are our brothers....they have stood for us before China stood with us...China is now oppressing the Uyghurs...ever since they took over their lands...I don't want to give you a history lesson but China didn't hold Xinjiang until the past 100-200 years....before that it was independent for most of its lifetime.
> 
> Going back to the discussion, Turkey is standing up with Uyghurs just like it is standing up for Kashmiris because bros before $$$. Or so it should be in Islam....if you get my drift.
> 
> 
> 
> IK didn't even attend the Kuala Lumpur conference that stood with Kashmir while Turkey and many other Muslim nations did....Is Pakistan thinking about it's best interest in the first place??
> 
> You should ask that question instead of asking it to me....oh and you're reported for going personal. This is a online forum, not a brawl with the neighbors kid in the gali.



china has no economic benefits from pakistan. its economy is in the top in the world without pakistan! where as our military economy depends on chinese support. if china turns it back then the first country to destroy us will be ur ummah chumma nations!!! 
ummah chumma talks money walks. if u wanna live in stone age worrying about other muslims when ur own are living under terrible condition then go ahead.

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## Itachi

Myth_buster_1 said:


> china has no economic benefits from pakistan. its economy is in the top in the world without pakistan! where as our military economy depends on chinese support. if china turns it back then the first country to destroy us will be ur ummah chumma nations!!!
> ummah chumma talks money walks. if u wanna live in stone age worrying about other muslims when ur own are living under terrible condition then go ahead.



If you had said this in front of the Prophet SAW or Hazrat Umar R.A., you would have been skinned alive.

Good thing you're living in the US. 

Now go back to making $$$ while the Afghan Taliban burn $$$ like no tomorrow....since before you talk about $$$, Muslims, like you, need to get a new spine.

Did the early Muslims worry about $$$ (money in this case) when fighting the battle of Badr??

I'm not saying that we go fight the Chinese or anyone but I'm just deconstructing and bitch slapping your pathetic argument.

Oh and don't forget...China is #2 in economy because it relies on others to buy it's products...and because Pakistan helped China open itself to the West & also because the West made a lot of investments into China in it's early years.

If you act like a poodle, you get treated like one. If you act like a Lion, you get treated like one.


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## Pax Pakistanica

Itachi said:


> Read my post #4 right above you buddy....
> 
> We Muslims stand up for all Muslims. Try not to divide us like our leaders.



How desperate some Pakistanis can become to defend China. "BuT vIoLanCe iS hApPEnInG iN OthEr CounTrieS tOO".

Yes, but the difference here is that each and every Muslim nation has kneeled to China, whilst nations like Gambia and Turkey are speaking up about the Rohingya and Syrian crisis. Yes, not a whole lot of people can speak out about Kashmir, due to India's great influence in the geopolitical world.

The right way to defend Pakistan is to say that China has its financial grip on Pakistan, which has resulted in Pakistan's silence. Whilst we support the Uyghur Muslims, we are currently in no position to help them. Not "HuRRR DURR wHy ArEn'T OtHer NatIonS SpeAkINg Out AbOUt SyrIA anD RakHInE".

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## Itachi

Acesines said:


> This is too funny. How desperate some Pakistanis get to defend China. "BuT vIoLanCe iS hApPEnInG iN OthEr CounTrieS tOO".
> 
> Yes, but the difference here is that each and every Muslim nation has kneeled to China, whilst nations like Gambia and Turkey are speaking up about the Rohingya and Syrian crisis. Yes, not a whole lot of people can speak out about Kashmir, due to India's great influence in the geopolitical world.
> 
> The right way to defend Pakistan is to say that China has its financial grip on Pakistan, which has resulted in Pakistan's silence. Whilst we support the Uyghur Muslims, we are currently in no position to help them. Not "HuRRR DURR wHy ArEn'T OtHer NatIonS SpeAkINg Out AbOUt SyrIA anD RakHInE".



Yup, me and many others have been repeating the same lines as you bro....but alas, some here consider China more holy than their own nation...

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## Myth_buster_1

Itachi said:


> If you had said this in front of the Prophet SAW or Hazrat Umar R.A., you would have been skinned alive.



oh really? how many people did he skin alive? 


> Good thing you're living in the US.


alhamdulillah


> Now go back to making $$$ while the Afghan Taliban burn $$$ like no tomorrow....since before you talk about $$$, Muslims, like you, need to get a new spine.


doesnt the entire ummah need a new spine?


> Did the early Muslims worry about $$$ (money in this case) when fighting the battle of Badr??


Didnt prophet mohammed PBUH retreat from mecca so his community would be strong enough to conquer mecca? So what we could learn is, be a stronger community before you can act like a lion. 


> I'm not saying that we go fight the Chinese or anyone but I'm just deconstructing and bitch slapping your pathetic argument.


what you are saying is utter nonsense and suicidal for interest of pakistan. what you are saying is lets sacrifise well being of 250 million pakistanis over few million muslims (who btw will be in much better condition then average pakistani in couple of years)


> Oh and don't forget...China is #2 in economy because it relies on others to buy it's products...and because Pakistan helped China open itself to the West & also because the West made a lot of investments into China in it's early years.


Where did you even learn that? So Pakistan has been helping every country become developing nations like germany japan china and yet we are on the bottom tier of world nations! which idiot has been telling you these stories? You wont be any different then Indiots who live and thrive in myths! 
so pakistan went to europe and said "hey guys china would like to do trade with you"
europe was like "here you go china, trillion dollars worth of industries are coming your way"
china was like "oh yah why did not i think of that before, thanks pakistan... without you we would be just backward nation"

just get out of this retarded mentality! this is nothing less then ignorance and arrogance! 
hey dude, listen... without pakistan china can survive and lead the world. chinese economy did kick start with western investments but now its scientific, technological achievements are quickly catching up to western and in next decade it could easily surpass the entire world. 
Pakistan need to capitalize on that! but sure if you want to eat grass for rest of your life... go ahead **** with your ummah chumma which is worthless useless right now at this stage. u dont help your chumma by jumping in the fire... you help them when you are strong enough to do so or else you will be squashed like a mosquito. 


> If you act like a poodle, you get treated like one. If you act like a Lion, you get treated like one.


 a poodle can not roar like a lion my friend.

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## Itachi

Myth_buster_1 said:


> oh really? how many people did he skin alive?



Traitors to Islam were always dealt with a heavy hand...

I'm sure you have read about it??



Myth_buster_1 said:


> doesnt the entire ummah need a new spine?



Not really, a lot of Muslims have spoken up against all atrocities and for all Muslims...Turkey for example has spoken for Kashmiris, Palestinians & Uyghurs.....how many have Pakistanis supported and how many haven't??

A lot of you guys are still in denial mode just like when the Rohingya crisis started 



Myth_buster_1 said:


> Didnt prophet mohammed PBUH retreat from mecca so his community would be strong enough to conquer mecca? So what we could learn is, be a stronger community before you can act like a lion.



Ok so he did...now what does that have to do with the Muslims nation states we see today??

Do they need to retreat to Mars before they can act?? 

One of you has a nuke, another is busy in Syria, another is also busy in Syria (and also supporting the Uyghurs)....multiple others have raised the Uyghur issue....some of us are poodles to West (hint: they have oil)...so what else do you need to act???

Does the Mahdi need to come out and verbally tell everyone that all Muslims are brothers & sisters??



Myth_buster_1 said:


> what you are saying is utter nonsense and suicidal for interest of pakistan. what you are saying is lets sacrifise well being of 250 million pakistanis over few million muslims (who btw will be in much better condition then average pakistani in couple of years)



Right...I bet that's what the Quraysh told Hazrat Muhammad SAW too....you can't do this, you can't do that...and look where we are...

If you had actually read my post, you would have noticed that I only ask for diplomatice pressure on China, not an invasion. 

But of course...how can we do that since we can't bite the hand that's investing in us right?? 

Little do you know that China needs us more than we need it...

And that's another topic but I would look towards the SCS and the USN and how CPEC fits in...if you already don't know...



Myth_buster_1 said:


> Where did you even learn that? So Pakistan has been helping every country become developing nations like germany japan china and yet we are on the bottom tier of world nations! which idiot has been telling you these stories? You wont be any different then Indiots who live and thrive in myths!
> so pakistan went to europe and said "hey guys china would like to do trade with you"
> europe was like "here you go china, trillion dollars worth of industries are coming your way"
> china was like "oh yah why did not i think of that before, thanks pakistan... without you we would be just backward nation"



I'm not gonna explain history to you dude...go look it up...it's widely known that Pakistan mended ties between China and the US...US later on invested a lot in China....but oh well, continue living in ignorance...



Myth_buster_1 said:


> ust get out of this retarded mentality! this is nothing less then ignorance and arrogance!



Right back at ya. 



Myth_buster_1 said:


> hey dude, listen... without pakistan china can survive and lead the world.



Are you telling me to believe that or telling yourself to believe that? 



Myth_buster_1 said:


> chinese economy did kick start with western investments but now its scientific, technological achievements are quickly catching up to western and in next decade it could easily surpass the entire world.



Oh...so now you believe that the Chinese economy was started with Western investments huh?? 



Myth_buster_1 said:


> Pakistan need to capitalize on that!



Something we can agree on.




Myth_buster_1 said:


> but sure if you want to eat grass for rest of your life... go ahead **** with your ummah chumma which is worthless useless right now at this stage. u dont help your chumma by jumping in the fire... you help them when you are strong enough to do so or else you will be squashed like a mosquito.



Nah bro, I eat salad when I want to....mostly I eat Chicken and Goat...

Either way, didn't Hazrat Ibrahim R.A. get thrown in the fire for believing in Allah??

So what if we get thrown in a worldly fire for what we, as Muslims, believe in??

If your Iman is weak, you don't have to speak up for other Muslims but at least don't belittle our struggle. Whether it be on the internet or physically because the first step to righting any wrongs is spreading awareness.


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## Rasengan

Myth_buster_1 said:


> china has no economic benefits from pakistan. its economy is in the top in the world without pakistan! where as our military economy depends on chinese support. if china turns it back then the first country to destroy us will be ur ummah chumma nations!!!
> ummah chumma talks money walks. if u wanna live in stone age worrying about other muslims when ur own are living under terrible condition then go ahead.



Sometimes you can't reason with certain people. We must at least be thankful they will remain as keyboard warriors while the corridor of power lies with men who have good judgment. Pakistan will always be first and the rest of the Muslim world (not people) can take a hike if it doesn't suit our interests. There is a big difference between Call of Duty and the real world.


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## Itachi

Rasengan said:


> Pakistan will always be first and the rest of the Muslim world (not people) can take a hike if it doesn't suit our interests.



If you go the Iran route, you'll become like Iran. 

Also, the Prophet SAW said that all Muslims should take care of all Muslims, not follow what their "interest" said.

This was/is the same strategy that got the Muslims to be kicked around before Salahuddin came and pushed back the Crusaders.

This time again, your asses are being kicked around from Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Myanmar, India, Yemen, Palestine and much more......although the Afghan Taliban have been very victorious due to their believe in and support from Allah.

Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia & Turkey are next in line to be balkanized, which is why Pakistan tried to mend relationships and make new ones with fellow Muslim countries.

But, if you want to continue with the solo route, go on. The Army & ISI can only do so much alone since they're humans after all too.

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## Rasengan

Itachi said:


> If you go the Iran route, you'll become like Iran.
> 
> Also, the Prophet SAW said that all Muslims should take care of all Muslims, not follow what their "interest" said.
> 
> This was/is the same strategy that got the Muslims to be kicked around before Salahuddin came and pushed back the Crusaders.
> 
> This time again, your asses are being kicked around from Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Myanmar, India, Yemen, Palestine and much more......although the Afghan Taliban have been very victorious due to their believe in and support from Allah.
> 
> Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia & Turkey are next in line to be balkanized, which is why Pakistan tried to mend relationships and make new ones with fellow Muslim countries.
> 
> But, if you want to continue with the solo route, go on. The Army & ISI can only do so much alone since they're humans after all too.



You live on planet Mars Please don't bring your Empire War tactics in this forum. Salahuddin never pushed back the Crusaders until his power was consolidated and he had the means to fight them on an equal footing. The rest of your post reminds me of Zaid Hamid and quite frankly I don't want to waste my time. Put your money where your mouth is and join ETIM.


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## HannibalBarca

You: Us first and them second...
Also You: We are in Need... Help us, Oh Muslims!

Them: Us First and you second...

Welcome to the new world with a new Master of Illusion...
On how the Ex-Master Plan became the Slave new-motto...

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## Itachi

Rasengan said:


> You live on planet Mars Please don't bring your Empire War tactics in this forum. Salahuddin never pushed back the Crusaders until his power was consolidated and he had the means to fight them on an equal footing. The rest of your post reminds me of Zaid Hamid and quite frankly I don't want to waste my time. Put your money where your mouth is and join ETIM.



Here on Mars, I get the bigger picture. 

You Earthlings with your constant wars & divisions...



Rasengan said:


> Salahuddin never pushed back the Crusaders until his power was consolidated and he had the means to fight them on an equal footing.



Same thing I have been saying so far....if you're alone, you'll be cut down sooner or later, better ally yourself up with neighboring Muslims states.



Rasengan said:


> The rest of your post reminds me of Zaid Hamid and quite frankly I don't want to waste my time. Put your money where your mouth is and join ETIM.



You skipped the part where I said that the Prophet SAW said to look after all Muslims.....if Zaid Hamid says the same thing so what??

Are you not a Muslims?? Are you a secular liberal?

And why would I join ETIM when I can spread awareness here on PDF?

_The pen is mightier than the sword_.....why else would China ban PDF in China?

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## Rasengan

Itachi said:


> Same thing I have been saying so far....if you're alone, you'll be cut down sooner or later, better ally yourself up with neighboring Muslims states.



I can imagine you wearing a tin hat and playing with your toy soldiers on the table. The real world is much different and ugly. Pakistan must consolidate its own power as the rest of the Muslim world is fragmented. Each Muslim nation will pursue their own self-interests. This naturally occurs in statecraft so you need to get with the picture. There is no unity between Muslims' so allying with neighboring states is a pipedream in the current era. 
Salahuddin like Zengi had to use force to crush opposition in their land and elsewhere to consolidate their power in the Muslim world. That can't be applied in the current period without consequences. Only then when the Muslims were strong financially, military and stability did they fight the Crusaders. Tell me is the Muslim world financially stable in particular Pakistan? Do we have stability across the Muslim world? What about our military power? Do most Muslim import weapons from other countries. I don't live in a dream world because pragmatism trumps emotions. 



Itachi said:


> Same thing I have been saying so far....if you're alone, you'll be cut down sooner or later, better ally yourself up with neighboring Muslims states.
> 
> You skipped the part where I said that the Prophet SAW said to look after all Muslims.....if Zaid Hamid says the same thing so what??
> 
> Are you not a Muslims?? Are you a secular liberal?



You sound just like Zaid Hamid and guess what nobody takes him seriously. I have already answered this question above. You can call me whatever you want. I told you before these snide remarks show just how childish you are. Grow a pair of balls and join ETIM. Spreading awareness in PDF means diddlysquat in the grand scheme of things or is this another one of your delusions. You never took my advice but I can't help you. If you feel so strongly about this issue then take a trip to China and then show everyone in this forum what the true reality. Sitting in America and making war plans is rather funny and useless.


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## Itachi

Rasengan said:


> I can imagine you wearing a tin hat and playing with your toy soldiers on the table. The real world is much different and ugly. Pakistan must consolidate its own power as the rest of the Muslim world is fragmented. Each Muslim nation will pursue their own self-interests. This naturally occurs in statecraft so you need to get with the picture. There is no unity between Muslims' so allying with neighboring states is a pipedream in the current era.
> Salahuddin like Zengi had to use force to crush opposition in their land and elsewhere to consolidate their power in the Muslim world. That can't be applied in the current period without consequences. Only then when the Muslims were strong financially, military and stability did they fight the Crusaders. Tell me is the Muslim world financially stable in particular Pakistan? Do we have stability across the Muslim world? What about our military power? Do most Muslim import weapons from other countries. I don't live in a dream world because pragmatism trumps emotions.



Just like the Muslims before the coming of Salahuddin, you guys are the only ones at fault. If you had elected better leaders since 1947, you wouldn't be in this mess.

Your financial woes are of your own making. And when did finance stop anyone from siding with the truth or speaking up about it??

Where do you see me as calling for Jihad against China?? I'm not the one living in dreamland if you think that I want Pakistan to attack China. 



Rasengan said:


> You sound just like Zaid Hamid and guess what nobody takes him seriously.



Many do, if you don't then that doesn't mean "nobody" does. 



Rasengan said:


> I have already answered this question above. You can call me whatever you want. I told you before these snide remarks show just how childish you are. Grow a pair of balls and join ETIM.



Going back to the above topic, why would I join ETIM?? You seem to have me sorted as a Jihadist or something already lol 

Make sure your own biases don't obscure your judgement. 



Rasengan said:


> Spreading awareness in PDF means diddlysquat in the grand scheme of things or is this another one of your delusions.



Then why did China ban PDF citing "anti-China" posts???

What're they afraid of? 



Rasengan said:


> If you feel so strongly about this issue then take a trip to China and then show everyone in this forum what the true reality.



I don't have to....this is 2019, soon to be 2020....the world comes to the people while there is the option to travel also but why do that when you can view the world by just looking through the internet? 



Rasengan said:


> Sitting in America and making war plans is rather funny and useless.



lolol whose making war plans?? All I'm doing is spreading awareness and bashing pro-Chinese like you....do you see any Chinese here getting so worked up about Xinjiang/Uyghurs??

Many (Chinese) already know what's happening.....their half baked truths and lies have been dismantled by me and others for the couple of past months. They can't come up with new propaganda to show China as being oppressed on this issue so they're quiet.

The Truth will spread until there will be no deniers, just like Palestine, Kashmir, Bosnians & Rohingya before them. Deny all you want, similar people like you denied the Rohingya crisis before accepting it. 

I'll be sitting in my corner here on PDF when/if you see the Truth.

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## Rasengan

Itachi said:


> Just like the Muslims before the coming of Salahuddin, you guys are the only ones at fault. If you had elected better leaders since 1947, you wouldn't be in this mess


​
This confirms it typical Zaid Hamid mentality pointing fingers at others while electing yourself as a saint among the crowd. Only an arrogant fool would blame society without including himself within that community. Last time I checked you are a Pakistani which means you are also at fault for not electing better leaders since 1947. You are neglecting the truth about how Salahuddin came to power. The Muslims did not attack the Crusaders for more than 88 years until Zengi and Salahuddin had complete control of the Muslim world. This took decades to achieve with meticulous care in order to not get the Crusaders to turn their attention toward the Muslims. When the Crusaders began fighting among themselves Salahuddin with a well-equipped army took the fight to them (battle of Hattin). Apply the same scenario in the current period and any sane person should be able to see the contrast. Pakistan and in fact any other Muslim country doesn't have the support of the Muslim world under one banner. Everyone has their own self-interest and until every strong Muslim Govt is on the same page then its only a pipe dream to move above your pay grade as a lone wolf.



Itachi said:


> Your financial woes are of your own making. And when did finance stop anyone from siding with the truth or speaking up about it??
> 
> Where do you see me as calling for Jihad against China?? I'm not the one living in dreamland if you think that I want Pakistan to attack China.



Do you also include yourself in this category? The level of arrogance displayed by you is astounding. What truth are you speaking up about? Sitting in America and reading a few articles on a situation thousands of kilometers away doesn't make you an authority on what's happening on the ground. I never said you want Pakistan to attack China this was imagined by you. Instead, I said rather clearly if you feel so strongly about this issue then join ETIM.




Itachi said:


> Many do, if you don't then that doesn't mean "nobody" does.



Okay, many do, but most don't.



Itachi said:


> Going back to the above topic, why would I join ETIM?? You seem to have me sorted as a Jihadist or something already lol
> 
> Make sure your own biases don't obscure your judgement.




You are repeating the same sentence. Calm down and drink a glass of water maybe then things will become more clear. It was a suggestion rather than a bias but this seems to have rattled you. I thought the character Itachi was supposed to be in control of his emotions



Itachi said:


> J
> Then why did China ban PDF citing "anti-China" posts???
> 
> What're they afraid of?
> 
> I don't have to....this is 2019, soon to be 2020....the world comes to the people while there is the option to travel also but why do that when you can view the world by just looking through the internet?



China shouldn't have banned PDF. But reading some of the posts on this forum I could see why they thought PDF was anti-China. The Chinese Govt must reform in how they govern people but it's not my place to lecture them when Pakistan has its own problems to deal with. China since Chairman Mao has evolved and I suspect in the next 20 years the leadership will think differently. The future leadership won't be tied down to the Cultural Revolution and the Red Guard in which the present generation has a link. You must be naive to think looking through the internet can give you a view of the world. Most tourists are reluctant to travel to Pakistan but those who eventually take the risk find a much different experience of hospitality and safety. The statement above proves you aren't interested to find out the truth.



Itachi said:


> lolol whose making war plans?? All I'm doing is spreading awareness and bashing pro-Chinese like you....do you see any Chinese here getting so worked up about Xinjiang/Uyghurs??
> 
> .



Did I quote your post or did you engage me first on the subject? The only person who is worked up is you. Please continue to bash China it makes no difference because you are irrelevant including me.​

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## Myth_buster_1

Itachi said:


> Traitors to Islam were always dealt with a heavy hand...
> 
> I'm sure you have read about it??



So anyone who does not support British Empire created nations like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, etc is a traitor to Islam? 



> Not really, a lot of Muslims have spoken up against all atrocities and for all Muslims...Turkey for example has spoken for Kashmiris, Palestinians & Uyghurs.....how many have Pakistanis supported and how many haven't??



You can not compare pakistan with turkey. They are light years ahead of Pakistan in every aspect. 
They can afford to question China but Pakistan can not. If pak does then your faimly in Pakistan will be eating grass. 



> Do they need to retreat to Mars before they can act??


No dude, their is a reason behind every historical events in Islam. 
The reason why he did not conquer Mecca right away is because he did not have a strong community which would not have stand a chance against a bigger opponent. 


> One of you has a nuke, another is busy in Syria, another is also busy in Syria (and also supporting the Uyghurs)....multiple others have raised the Uyghur issue....some of us are poodles to West (hint: they have oil)...so what else do you need to act???


Without Chinese support, Pakistan nuclear program would be in dust bin.


> Does the Mahdi need to come out and verbally tell everyone that all Muslims are brothers & sisters??


Yes


> Right...I bet that's what the Quraysh told Hazrat Muhammad SAW too....you can't do this, you can't do that...and look where we are...


And you cant compare Today's Muslims with Prophet Mohammed PBUH. 
Most of today's muslims are of worst kind.



> If you had actually read my post, you would have noticed that I only ask for diplomatice pressure on China, not an invasion.


You cant bite the hands that feed you.
Go and protest you want shariah law in US in front of white house.... what what happens to you in 2 minutes. 



> But of course...how can we do that since we can't bite the hand that's investing in us right??


 yep


> Little do you know that China needs us more than we need it...


Nope, China maybe needs us 10% while we need china 90%


> And that's another topic but I would look towards the SCS and the USN and how CPEC fits in...if you already don't know...


Tell me how much Pakistani ports have benefited China's trillion dollars economy? not even 5 %!



> I'm not gonna explain history to you dude...go look it up...it's widely known that Pakistan mended ties between China and the US...US later on invested a lot in China....but oh well, continue living in ignorance...


Since you know alot more about history then tell us who were those bunch of Pakistanis who "mended ties" between china and US. 
Thats not history, more like bunch of Pakistanis who highly think of Pakistan came up with stories to satisfy each others egos. 



> Either way, didn't Hazrat Ibrahim R.A. get thrown in the fire for believing in Allah??


you can not compare Islamic figures with muslims of today. 



> So what if we get thrown in a worldly fire for what we, as Muslims, believe in??
> If your Iman is weak, you don't have to speak up for other Muslims but at least don't belittle our struggle. Whether it be on the internet or physically because the first step to righting any wrongs is spreading awareness.


You are in America and talking about ummah chumma. well thats not going to go well. 
listen dude, the situation Muslims are in today WONT be fixed by dudes like you living in US.
And neither can muslims collectively come up together and fix problem on their own.
my personal believe is, what ever is happening today is are prophecy. At the end of times muslims will be divided (british empire created all muslim countries including pakistan).



Rasengan said:


> ​
> 
> This confirms it typical Zaid Hamid mentality pointing fingers at others while electing yourself as a saint among the crowd. Only an arrogant fool would blame society without including himself within that community. Last time I checked you are a Pakistani which means you are also at fault for not electing better leaders since 1947. You are neglecting the truth about how Salahuddin came to power. The Muslims did not attack the Crusaders for more than 88 years until Zengi and Salahuddin had complete control of the Muslim world. This took decades to achieve with meticulous care in order to not get the Crusaders to turn their attention toward the Muslims. When the Crusaders began fighting among themselves Salahuddin with a well-equipped army took the fight to them (battle of Hattin). Apply the same scenario in the current period and any sane person should be able to see the contrast. Pakistan and in fact any other Muslim country doesn't have the support of the Muslim world under one banner. Everyone has their own self-interest and until every strong Muslim Govt is on the same page then its only a pipe dream to move above your pay grade as a lone wolf.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you also include yourself in this category? The level of arrogance displayed by you is astounding. What truth are you speaking up about? Sitting in America and reading a few articles on a situation thousands of kilometers away doesn't make you an authority on what's happening on the ground. I never said you want Pakistan to attack China this was imagined by you. Instead, I said rather clearly if you feel so strongly about this issue then join ETIM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, many do, but most don't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are repeating the same sentence. Calm down and drink a glass of water maybe then things will become more clear. It was a suggestion rather than a bias but this seems to have rattled you. I thought the character Itachi was supposed to be in control of his emotions
> 
> 
> 
> China shouldn't have banned PDF. But reading some of the posts on this forum I could see why they thought PDF was anti-China. The Chinese Govt must reform in how they govern people but it's not my place to lecture them when Pakistan has its own problems to deal with. China since Chairman Mao has evolved and I suspect in the next 20 years the leadership will think differently. The future leadership won't be tied down to the Cultural Revolution and the Red Guard in which the present generation has a link. You must be naive to think looking through the internet can give you a view of the world. Most tourists are reluctant to travel to Pakistan but those who eventually take the risk find a much different experience of hospitality and safety. The statement above proves you aren't interested to find out the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Did I quote your post or did you engage me first on the subject? The only person who is worked up is you. Please continue to bash China it makes no difference because you are irrelevant including me.​




When i look at his DP only one word comes to my mind. Chutiya. sorry but thats the truth about this ABCD.

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## Ryan

Adrian Zenz, a far-right evangelical Christian fundamentalist, helped popularize the claim that China has detained millions of Uyghur Muslims. He also says he’s ‘led by God’ on a ‘mission’ against Beijing

CHINA December 21, 2019
*China detaining millions of Uyghurs? Serious problems with claims by US-backed NGO and far-right researcher ‘led by God’ against Beijing*
*Claims that China has detained millions of Uyghur Muslims are based largely on two studies. A closer look at these papers reveals US government backing, absurdly shoddy methodologies, and a rapture-ready evangelical researcher named Adrian Zenz.*
*By Ajit Singh and Max Blumenthal*

*The US House of Representatives passed the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act on December 3, legislation which calls for the Donald Trump administration to impose sanctions against China over allegations that Beijing has detained millions of Muslim-majority Uyghurs in the western region of Xinjiang.

To drum up support for the sanctions bill, Western governments and media outlets have portrayed the People’s Republic as a human rights violator on par with Nazi Germany. Republican Rep. Chris Smith, for instance, denounced the Chinese government for what he called the “mass internment of millions on a scale not seen since the Holocaust,” in “modern-day concentration camps.” 

The claim that China has detained millions of ethnic Uyghurs in its Xinjiang region is repeated with increasing frequency, but little scrutiny is ever applied. Yet a closer look at the figure and how it was obtained reveals a serious deficiency in data.

While this extraordinary claim is treated as unassailable in the West, it is, in fact, based on two highly dubious “studies.” 

The first, by the US government-backed Network of Chinese Human Rights Defenders, formed its estimate by interviewing a grand total of eight people.

The second study relied on flimsy media reports and speculation. It was authored by Adrian Zenz, a far-right fundamentalist Christian who opposes homosexuality and gender equality, supports “scriptural spanking” of children, and believes he is “led by God” on a “mission” against China.

As Washington ratchets up pressure on China, Zenz has been lifted out of obscurity and transformed almost overnight into a go-to pundit on Xinjiang. He has testified before Congress, providing commentary in outlets from the Wall Street Journal to Democracy Now!, and delivering expert quotes in the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists’ recent “China Cables” report. His Twitter bio notes that he is “moving across the Atlantic” from his native Germany.

Before Grayzone editor Max Blumenthal questioned Zenz about his religious “mission,” at a recent event about Xinjiang inside the US Capitol, he had received almost entirely uncritical promotion from Western media.

The Network of Chinese Human Rights Defenders, which first popularized the “millions detained” figure, has also been able to operate without a hint of media scrutiny.

Washington-backed NGO claims millions detained after interviewing eight people
The “millions detained” figure was first popularized by a Washington, DC-based NGO that is backed by the US government, the Network of Chinese Human Rights Defenders (CHRD).

In a 2018 report submitted to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination – often misrepresented in Western media as a UN-authored report – CHRD “estimate[d] that roughly one million members of ethnic Uyghurs have been sent to ‘re-education’ detention camps and roughly two million have been forced to attend ‘re-education’ programs in Xinjiang.” According to CHRD, this figure was “ased on interviews and limited data.” 

While CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals.








Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.”

Applying these estimated rates to the entirety of Xinjiang, CHRD arrived at the figures submitted to the UN claiming that one million ethnic Uyghurs have been detained in “re-education detention camps” and two million more have been “forced to attend day/evening re-education sessions”. 

Thanks to questionable sources like the CHRD, the United States government has accused China of “arbitrarily detain[ing] 800,000 to possibly more than two million Uighurs, ethnic Kazakhs, and other Muslims in internment camps designed to erase religious and ethnic identities.”

Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 2018, State Department official Scott Busby stated this this “is the U.S. government assessment, backed by our intelligence community and open source reporting.”

The Chinese government has rejected US allegations, and claims that it has in fact established “vocational education and training centers […] to prevent the breeding and spread of terrorism and religious extremism.” The Chinese Foreign Ministry has stated that “there [are] no so-called ‘re-education camps’ in Xinjiang at all. The vocational education and training centers legally operated in Xinjiang aim to help a small number of people affected by terrorist and extremist ideologies and equip them with skills, so that they can be self-reliant and re-integrate into society.”

In its mounting pressure campaign against China, the US is not only relying on CHRD for data; it is directly funding its operations. As Ben Norton and Ajit Singh previously reported for The Grayzone, CHRD receives significant financial support from Washington’s regime-change arm, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED).

The NGO has spent years campaigning on behalf of extreme right-wing opposition figures who celebrate colonialism and call for the “Westernization” of China.

‘Leading expert’ on Xinjiang relies on speculation and one questionable media report
The second key source for claims that China has detained millions of Uyghur Muslims is Adrian Zenz. He is a senior fellow in China studies at the far-right Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which was established by the US government in 1983.

The Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation is an outgrowth of the National Captive Nations Committee, a group founded by Ukrainian nationalist Lev Dobriansky to lobby against any effort for detente with the Soviet Union. Its co-chairman, Yaroslav Stetsko, was a top leader of the fascist OUN-B militia that fought alongside Nazi Germany during its occupation of Ukraine in World War Two. Together, the two helped found the World Anti-Communist League that was described by journalist Joe Conason as “the organizational haven for neo-Nazis, fascists, and anti-Semitic extremists from two dozen countries.”




Moss Robeson@mossrobeson__
· Jul 18, 2019

Today in 1983, Vice President George Bush and UN Ambassador Jeanne Kirkpatrick keynoted an observance of the 25th annual Captive Nations Week in Washington DC attended by Yaroslav Stetsko, a war criminal and Nazi collaborator who became leader of the OUN-B in 1968.









Moss Robeson@mossrobeson__

Lev Dobriansky, pictured below with Eisenhower & Reagan, invented Captive Nations Week in 1959, and got Yaroslav Stetsko his first visa to the United States in 1958 against the wishes of the CIA & the State Department. Reagan appointed Dobriansky to be Ambassador to the Bahamas.






14
7:10 PM - Jul 18, 2019
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Today, Dobriansky’s daughter, Paula, sits on the board of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. A former Reagan and George HW Bush official and signatory of the original Project for a New American Century document, Paula Dobriansky has become a fixture in neoconservative circles on Capitol Hill.

From its office in Washington, the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation agitates for regime change from Venezuela to the periphery of China, advancing the “double genocide” theory that rewrites the history of the Holocaust and posits communism as a deadly evil on par with Hitlerian fascism.

Zenz’s politicized research on Xinjiang and Tibet has proven one of this right-wing group’s most effective weapons. 

In September of 2018, Zenz wrote an article published in the Central Asian Survey journal concluding that “Xinjiang’s total re-education internment figure may be estimated at just over one million.” (A condensed version of the article was initially published by the Jamestown Foundation, a neoconservative think tank founded during the height of the Cold War by Reagan administration personnel with the support of then-CIA Director William J. Casey).

Like the CHRD, Zenz arrived at his estimate “over 1 million” in a dubious manner. He based it on a single report by Istiqlal TV, a Uyghur exile media organization based in Turkey, which was republished by Newsweek Japan. Far from an impartial journalistic organization, Istiqlal TV advances the separatist cause while playing host to an assortment of extremist figures. 

One such character who often appears on Istiqlal TV is Abdulkadir Yapuquan, a reported leader of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), a separatist group that aims to establish an independent homeland in Xinjiang called East Turkestan. 

ETIM has been designated as a terrorist organization with ties to al-Qaeda by the US, European Union, and UN Security Council’s Al-Qaida Sanctions Committee. The Associated Press has reported that since “2013, thousands of Uighurs… have traveled to Syria to train with the Uighur militant group Turkistan Islamic Party and fight alongside al-Qaida,” with “several hundred join[ing] the Islamic State.” 

The Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP) has been among the most recalcitrant forces operating in the Al Qaeda-controlled Idlib province, rejecting all ceasefire efforts while indoctrinating children into militancy. TIP leadership has called on foreign Muslims to wage jihad in Syria, publishing an online recruitment video in 2018 that celebrated the 9/11 attacks as holy retaliation against a decadent United States awash in homosexuality and sin.





Children of the Turkistan Islamic Party in Idlib, Syria
According to the Los Angeles Times, Yapuquan is “a regular guest on Istiqlal TV… where his interviews often extended into hours-long emotional tirades against China.”

Turkish journalist Abdullah Bozkurt reported that Istiqlal TV has also hosted fanatical anti-Semites like Nureddin Yıldız, who in an interview on the network, “called for armed jihad not only in China’s autonomous Xinjiang region but all over the world and described China as a nation of savages, worse than the Jews.”




Abdullah Bozkurt@abdbozkurt
https://twitter.com/abdbozkurt/status/879444488313294849

#Turkey pres. #Erdogan's family cleric Nureddin Yıldız talks to Uyghur Istiqlal TV, describes #China as nation of savages, worse than Jews.





49
4:01 PM - Jun 26, 2017
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Abdullah Bozkurt@abdbozkurt
· Jun 26, 2017

Replying to @abdbozkurt
Nureddin Yıldız is linked to Jihadist groups in #Syria, inspired the assassin of #Russia ambassador in Turkey, protected by #Erdogan.




Abdullah Bozkurt@abdbozkurt

Nureddin Yıldız, #Erdogan's family Imam, talks to #Uyghur TV, urges Uyghurs to do Jihad not only against #China but also Jews & others.





28
4:12 PM - Jun 26, 2017
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The Istiqlal TV report relied on by Zenz published an unverified table of “re-education detainee figures” allegedly “leaked” by Chinese authorities, totaling 892,000 individuals in 68 Xinjiang counties as of Spring 2018. 

Zenz pads this data by citing reports from Radio Free Asia, a US-funded news agency created by the CIA during the Cold War to propagandize against China. (The Uyghur Human Rights Act recently passed by Congress mandates the US Agency for Global Media – the governmental parent of Radio Free Asia – to report on Xinjiang, including “assessments of Chinese propaganda strategies.”)

With his cobbling of questionable sources, Zenz extrapolates an extremely broad estimate “at anywhere between several hundred thousand and just over one million.” 

While admitting that “there is no certainty” to his estimate, he has concluded that it is nevertheless “reasonable to speculate.” He attempted to evade personal responsibility for the figure’s questionable reliability, however, by stating “[t]he accuracy of this estimate is of course predicated on the supposed validity of the stated sources.” 

As time goes on, Zenz continues to inflate his speculative estimate of Uyghur detainees. Speaking at an event organized by the US mission in Geneva in March 2019, Zenz stated, “Although it is speculative it seems appropriate to estimate that up to 1.5 million ethnic minorities [have been detained by China in Xinjiang].” Zenz bumped up his estimate again in a November 2019 interview with Radio Free Asia, claiming China was detaining 1.8 million people. 

In an interview with Der Spiegel, Zenz claimed that China has effectively outlawed the practice of Islam in Xinjiang. “Anyone in Xinjiang who engages in any type of religious practice, anyone who even has a single Koran verse saved on their mobile phone, will be subjected to a brutal process of reeducation without trial,” he maintained.

These incendiary claims have vaulted Zenz to the status of international “expert” on Xinjiang, earned him invites to testify before US Congress and Canadian Parliament, and to deliver commentary in major US media outlets including The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, and Democracy Now! 

Zenz has also been featured by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) as the leading authority legitimizing their recent “China Cables” investigation. The ICIJ report asserts that “[l]inguists, document and Xinjiang experts, including Zenz, who reviewed the documents have expressed confidence in their authenticity.”

Given Zenz’s habit of speculation and the questionable reliability of the lone Istiqlal TV media report he relies on for his estimates, it is troubling that Western governments and media have accepted and promoted his claims without a trace of skepticism.

A closer look at Zenz’s own biases should magnify these concerns, as he is a full-blown evangelical End Timer who appears to be believe that God has sent him on a holy crusade against the People’s Republic of China.

Fundamentalist Christian ‘led by God’ in mission against China, homosexuality, and gender equality
A born-again Christian who claims to preach at his local church, Adrian Zenz is a lecturer at the European School of Culture and Theology. This anodyne-sounding campus is actually the German base of Columbia International University, a US-based evangelical Christian seminary which considers the “Bible [to be] the ultimate foundation and the final truth in every aspect of our lives,” and whose mission is to “educate people from a biblical worldview to impact the nations with the message of Christ.” 

Zenz’s work on China is inspired by this biblical worldview, as he recently explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “I feel very clearly led by God to do this,” he said. “I can put it that way. I’m not afraid to say that. With Xinjiang, things really changed. It became like a mission, or a ministry.”

Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.

Zenz outlined these views in a book he co-authored in 2012, titled Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. In the tome, Zenz discussed the return of Jesus Christ, the coming wrath of God, and the rise of the Antichrist. 

Zenz predicted that the future fall of capitalism will bring to power the Antichrist within a “few decades.” He identified the force that “will usher the Antichrist into power” as “the economic and financial fall of ‘Babylon,’ with ‘Babylon’ symbolically representing the world’s global economic system (capitalism).”

“Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation,” by Adrian Zenz and Marlon L. Sias

" data-medium-file="https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...rian-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?fit=300,219&ssl=1" data-large-file="https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...rian-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?fit=845,618&ssl=1" class="size-full wp-image-18189" src="https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...n-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=845,618&ssl=1" alt="Worthy to Escape Adrian Zenz Uyghurs China" width="550" height="402" srcset="https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...pe-Adrian-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?w=1860&ssl=1 1860w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...n-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=300,219&ssl=1 300w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=1024,749&ssl=1 1024w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...n-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=768,562&ssl=1 768w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=1536,1123&ssl=1 1536w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...n-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=150,110&ssl=1 150w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?resize=1200,877&ssl=1 1200w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...pe-Adrian-Zenz-Uyghurs-China.jpg?w=1690&ssl=1 1690w" sizes="(max-width: 845px) 100vw, 845px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
“Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation,” by Adrian Zenz and Marlon L. Sias
Along with the fall of capitalism, Zenz also views “postmodern relativism and tolerance thinking” and their apparent promotion of homosexuality, gender equality, and non-violent parenting to be threats to Christianity and “[t]he deceptive, leopard-like power behind the Antichrist.” 

“It is very likely that the global persecution of true believers will center on the charge that they promote ‘intolerant views,’” Zenz wrote, “especially related to preaching against homosexuality.”

Zenz argued that “[h]ate crime and anti-discrimination laws will likely play a major role in the suppression of biblical Christianity” and formed part of an “anti-Christian ‘tolerance’ campaign” because they “forbid employers to discriminate based on gender or sexual orientations.”

“The outcome of this process is open rebellion against both God and God-given human authority structures”, Zenz stated, decrying that “[r]ising numbers of countries are banning all forms of physical punishment of children, the primary scriptural method for instilling respect for authority in the young generation and protecting them from rebellious tendencies.” Zenz assures readers that “true scriptural spanking is loving discipline and not violence.”

“Another important God-given authority structure that Satan is attacking through the postmodern spirit is that of gender authority structures”, Zenz continued. “Through notions of gender equality […] the enemy is undermining God’s unique but different role assignments for men and women.”

Given these obscurantist right-wing views, it is not surprising that Zenz’s proclaimed concern for the condition of Muslims in China does not seem to extend to Muslims elsewhere.

A search of Zenz’s Twitter profile returns no tweets concerning the rise of Islamophobia in the West, nor US wars and drone strikes against Muslim-majority countries. The only Tweet by Zenz concerning Muslims that is unrelated to China is a denial that there is a double standard in how violence is judged when committed by white people compared to Muslims.






‘The End Times is a very fascinating topic’
In his December 10, 2019 testimony to the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Adrian Zenz took a victory lap of sorts for Congress’ passage of the Uyghur Human Rights Act the week before, which placed new sanctions on the Chinese government. Citing the bill’s success, he called for opening a new front against China with a US investigation into “involuntary labor in relation to Xinjiang.”

Adrian Zenz Congress Uyghurs China

" data-medium-file="https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...019-12-20-at-6.56.36-PM.png?fit=300,207&ssl=1" data-large-file="https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...019-12-20-at-6.56.36-PM.png?fit=845,583&ssl=1" class="size-full wp-image-18154" src="https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...-12-20-at-6.56.36-PM.png?resize=845,583&ssl=1" alt="" width="550" height="379" srcset="https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...Shot-2019-12-20-at-6.56.36-PM.png?w=919&ssl=1 919w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...-12-20-at-6.56.36-PM.png?resize=300,207&ssl=1 300w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...-12-20-at-6.56.36-PM.png?resize=768,530&ssl=1 768w, https://i0.wp.com/thegrayzone.com/w...-12-20-at-6.56.36-PM.png?resize=150,103&ssl=1 150w" sizes="(max-width: 845px) 100vw, 845px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
Adrian Zenz testifying before Congress on December 10, 2019
That same day, Zenz also appeared on a panel dedicated to Xinjiang that was hosted by the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation in the US Capitol Visitor Center.

On hand were Republican heavyweights like Sam Brownback, the ferociously anti-LGBT, anti-abortion former governor of Kansas and current US ambassador-at-large for religious freedom, as well as top staffers of Sen. Marco Rubio, the sponsor of virtually every China sanctions bill to be rubber-stamped by Congress in recent weeks.





Sam Brownback, a right-wing fundamentalist former senator, at the Victims of Communism panel on Xinjiang. (Zenz is second to his right).
During a question-and-answer session, The Grayzone editor Max Blumenthal asked Zenz about his fundamentalist religious views and far-right politics.

Zenz did not distance himself from his past statements denouncing gender equality and “tolerance thinking,” or his advocacy for the “scriptural spanking” of children. Instead, he asserted that there was no inconsistency between those views and the quality of his research on China’s Xinjiang region.

“I do have a diverse background and I have personal connections which I do not believe are inconsistent with my research,” Zenz responded to Blumenthal. “I do not support China’s authoritarian methods in any way, and I do believe there’s a God who is bringing judgment in different forms. The End Times is a very fascinating topic, a very complex topic, and I think, very relevant. And I think it’s good to live aware of that.”




Max Blumenthal

✔@MaxBlumenthal
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1208837915687706624

Adrian Zenz is considered an expert in DC. His research influenced the Uyghur Human Rights Act that sanctioned China. 

But he’s also a Rapture-ready evangelical who says he’s “led by God” against Beijing. 

I challenged him on Capitol Hill. 

More here: https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/ …





703
2:53 PM - Dec 22, 2019
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357 people are talking about this





Moments later, a visibly upset young man rose from his seat to “condemn the tankie Max Blumenthal.” Unleashing a torrent of insults at Blumenthal, he made no attempt to refute the journalist’s line of questioning.

The rigorously enforced conviction on display in the politically hermetic chambers of the US Capitol also encompasses the whole of Western media, where even purportedly progressive outlets have provided Zenz with an uncritical platform.

From Washington’s halls of power to major newsrooms, few are willing to let inconvenient facts get in the way of a new, undeniably faith-based Cold War crusade. 





Ajit Singh
Ajit Singh is a Canada-based writer and lawyer. He tweets at @ajitxsingh.


https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/...ns-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/*


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## Rasengan

Myth_buster_1 said:


> When i look at his DP only one word comes to my mind. Chutiya. sorry but thats the truth about this ABCD.



"You can't build a great building on a weak foundation. You must have a solid foundation if you're going to have a strong superstructure." Unfortunately, the Muslim world is divided and Pakistan as a lone wolf with a weak foundation would be ripped apart if we followed his logic. Pakistan is changing we must have consistent growth without treading on the toes of other superpowers. I have previously tried to explain this to him but he pulls out the secular liberal card.

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## Myth_buster_1

Rasengan said:


> "You can't build a great building on a weak foundation. You must have a solid foundation if you're going to have a strong superstructure." Unfortunately, the Muslim world is divided and Pakistan as a lone wolf with a weak foundation would be ripped apart if we followed his logic. Pakistan is changing we must have consistent growth without treading on the toes of other superpowers. I have previously tried to explain this to him but he pulls out the secular liberal card.



i just know why i bother replying to him. he just goes around in circle with his nonsense.

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## Itachi

Rasengan said:


> This confirms it typical Zaid Hamid mentality pointing fingers at others while electing yourself as a saint among the crowd. Only an arrogant fool would blame society without including himself within that community. Last time I checked you are a Pakistani which means you are also at fault for not electing better leaders since 1947. You are neglecting the truth about how Salahuddin came to power. The Muslims did not attack the Crusaders for more than 88 years until Zengi and Salahuddin had complete control of the Muslim world. This took decades to achieve with meticulous care in order to not get the Crusaders to turn their attention toward the Muslims. When the Crusaders began fighting among themselves Salahuddin with a well-equipped army took the fight to them (battle of Hattin). Apply the same scenario in the current period and any sane person should be able to see the contrast. Pakistan and in fact any other Muslim country doesn't have the support of the Muslim world under one banner. Everyone has their own self-interest and until every strong Muslim Govt is on the same page then its only a pipe dream to move above your pay grade as a lone wolf.



Why would I include myself in a society of which I'm not a part of?? I wasn't even born when Pakistanis elected & supported buffon's as leaders. If I was in Pakistan during the recent election, I would have voted for IK.

And I am not electing myself as a saint, your own biases against me are showing....where did I say that??

I'll repeat again, as I have, Pakistan's predicaments are of its own makings. It elected & supported wrong leaders which then either looted the country or stopped it from developing. Now that China has come to help you get up, you guys consider China as a god, forgetting that's a mutual economic relationship with a mix of military help.

If Pakistan shows the same backbone as Turkey, many Muslim countries will start siding with it.



Rasengan said:


> Do you also include yourself in this category? The level of arrogance displayed by you is astounding. What truth are you speaking up about? Sitting in America and reading a few articles on a situation thousands of kilometers away doesn't make you an authority on what's happening on the ground. I never said you want Pakistan to attack China this was imagined by you. Instead, I said rather clearly if you feel so strongly about this issue then join ETIM.



I do, I'm not a hypocrite. I stand with my words, spoken or written.

I have read more than just "a few articles" lol....and whether I sit on a different continent or a couple of galaxies away shouldn't matter. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to Justice everywhere" (Martin Luther King Jr).

Again, why would I join ETIM??? Why're you hellbent on me becoming a Jihadist?? 

All I'm doing is spreading awareness on PDF whereas people like you & Myth come here and start arguing and making excuses for China whereas Chinese don't even do that!! 

Even the Chinese acknowledge the Oppression being done to the Uyghurs! 



Rasengan said:


> Okay, many do, but most don't.



You'll see more supporters of his work than otherwise. If you find a couple of voices bashing him doesn't mean the majority don't side with him. 



Rasengan said:


> You are repeating the same sentence. Calm down and drink a glass of water maybe then things will become more clear. It was a suggestion rather than a bias but this seems to have rattled you. I thought the character Itachi was supposed to be in control of his emotions



Whereas I can control my emotion, whether you believe me to be in control or not.....Where does "Rasengan" come from?? 

Isn't it a Jutsu from Naruto used to hurt others? 

At least my character put the country (village in case of Itachi) before his own priorities. 



Rasengan said:


> China shouldn't have banned PDF. But reading some of the posts on this forum I could see why they thought PDF was anti-China. The Chinese Govt must reform in how they govern people but it's not my place to lecture them when Pakistan has its own problems to deal with. China since Chairman Mao has evolved and I suspect in the next 20 years the leadership will think differently. The future leadership won't be tied down to the Cultural Revolution and the Red Guard in which the present generation has a link. You must be naive to think looking through the internet can give you a view of the world. Most tourists are reluctant to travel to Pakistan but those who eventually take the risk find a much different experience of hospitality and safety. The statement above proves you aren't interested to find out the truth.



The day China moves itself from it's horrific past and moves on a different scale is when it'll set itself right. Until then, it'll continue subjugating it's minorities & others.

Mao himself killed millions, tens of millions to be exact. No one will forget that. The rise of China has never been peaceful, it has been built on the blood of many innocents.

Similarly, current Chinese policies are no different from its past....news has come out that China is moving onto making Islam more "socialist"....the thread has been closed but the below is what a Chinese had to say in response to a well known Pakistani member who parrots the same pro-China lines as yours. 









Rasengan said:


> Did I quote your post or did you engage me first on the subject? The only person who is worked up is you. *Please continue to bash China it makes no difference because you are irrelevant including me*.



If it's irrelevant to you then why do you pop up in all the threads concerning Uyghurs?? What's your agenda?? since you clearly know what my agenda is. 



Myth_buster_1 said:


> So anyone who does not support British Empire created nations like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, etc is a traitor to Islam?



The British didn't create any nations. Read an actual history book. 

*Nations win their independence!* Who in their right mind would let go of their sovereign claims?? 



Myth_buster_1 said:


> You can not compare pakistan with turkey. *They are light years ahead of Pakistan in every aspect. *
> They can afford to question China but Pakistan can not. If pak does then your faimly in Pakistan will be eating grass.



Do you know what "light years" stand for?? If they're "light years" ahead of Pakistan...why're they still living on planet Earth??



Myth_buster_1 said:


> They can afford to question China but Pakistan can not. If pak does then your faimly in Pakistan will be eating grass.



Your misgivings are quite astounding....same thing was said when Pakistan wanted to build nukes....did anyone eat grass then or/& now??




Myth_buster_1 said:


> Without Chinese support, Pakistan nuclear program would be in dust bin.



Then let me show you another mirror...

Without Pakistani support, China would be isolated like it was in the global economy. It would not be able to have OBOR or CPEC which will be the juglar veins to its economy from now on.

Without CPEC/OBOR, the USN (US Navy) can easily blockade Chinese imports in the SCS (South China Sea)....which is why China is investing so heavily into Pakistan because guess what.....China needs Pakistan as much, if not more, as Pakistan needs China! 

But if you want to act like a good slave like Pakistan has done to the British Empire & the US....continue on! 



Myth_buster_1 said:


> *When i look at his DP only one word comes to my mind. Chutiya. sorry but thats the truth about this ABCD.*



I have answered most of your counter arguments...I would have continued on but this clearly shows that in the end, you're showing your upbringing.

Insults, slurs & slandering...what else can be expected from certain Pakistanis huh?


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## Rasengan

Itachi said:


> Why would I include myself in a society of which I'm not a part of?? I wasn't even born when Pakistanis elected & supported buffon's as leaders. If I was in Pakistan during the recent election, I would have voted for IK.
> 
> And I am not electing myself as a saint, your own biases against me are showing....where did I say that??
> 
> I'll repeat again, as I have, Pakistan's predicaments are of its own makings. It elected & supported wrong leaders which then either looted the country or stopped it from developing. Now that China has come to help you get up, you guys consider China as a god, forgetting that's a mutual economic relationship with a mix of military help.
> 
> If Pakistan shows the same backbone as Turkey, many Muslim countries will start siding with it.



Arrogance is the camouflage for insecurity and you have this in abundance when you have no answer. Both Zaid Hamid and you are two peas in the same pod. Read your previous post carefully below.



Itachi said:


> Just like the Muslims before the coming of Salahuddin, you guys are the only ones at fault. If you had elected better leaders since 1947, you wouldn't be in this mess.



Unless you are a mind reader what evidence do you have I was born at a time when Pakistanis elected and supported corrupt leaders? Furthermore, what proof do you have I was even born in Pakistan? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but nothing is more dangerous than ignorance. Before writing nonsense at least have the facts in front of you. Otherwise, you'll be firing blanks in a debate making you look like a fool.

Who are you to judge other Pakistanis? Only a retard would point fingers at others while portraying himself as a saint. If you have a problem with the past then take this issue to your own forefathers instead of preaching to others. When did I advocate China was God? @waz I don't normally report a post but it's outrageous what he accuses other members of.

What backbone does Turkey have? The Turkish economy is falling apart, unemployment is rising and the image of Erdogan has deteriorated domestically and internationally. The last time Erdogan had a meeting with Xi he struck a positive note on the treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang. The recent conference in Kuala Lumpur showed he didn't even mention the Uyghurs once even though the event was focused on the national security of the Muslim world. One member from the audience asked the question on the treatment of Uyghurs in China. What do you think was the response of Mahathir, Erdogan, and Rouhani? All three of them ignored the question.




Itachi said:


> I do, I'm not a hypocrite. I stand with my words, spoken or written.
> 
> I have read more than just "a few articles" lol....and whether I sit on a different continent or a couple of galaxies away shouldn't matter. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to Justice everywhere" (Martin Luther King Jr).
> 
> Again, why would I join ETIM??? Why're you hellbent on me becoming a Jihadist??
> 
> All I'm doing is spreading awareness on PDF whereas people like you & Myth come here and start arguing and making excuses for China whereas Chinese don't even do that!!
> 
> Even the Chinese acknowledge the Oppression being done to the Uyghurs!



You have read articles while I have been inside the country multiple times and spoken to hundreds of Uyghurs. But who am I to stop you in your pursuit of becoming an internet scholar. You remind me of a puppy who seeks constant attention. The last time I spoke on this subject was 6 months ago so spare me your bullshit. Did I quote your post or did you engage me first on the subject? If you want to spread awareness then take your sermons to someone else.




Itachi said:


> You'll see more supporters of his work than otherwise. If you find a couple of voices bashing him doesn't mean the majority don't side with him.



Keep believing such nonsense



Itachi said:


> Whereas I can control my emotion, whether you believe me to be in control or not.....Where does "Rasengan" come from??
> 
> Isn't it a Jutsu from Naruto used to hurt others?
> 
> At least my character put the country (village in case of Itachi) before his own priorities.



Rasengan means a spiral sphere. When plotted on a chart in a fractal way it looks like a Fibonacci Arc a principle that I apply in my work. I also won't deny I was a fan of the show but the first reason was more important than the second.

Remind me again what Itachi did in the show? He killed the entire Uchiha clan because it threatened the national interests of the village. The Uchiha coup would have led to the 4th ninja war and Konoha couldn't afford to fight against the other big nations. The same principle applies to Pakistan.

The Chinese member from Hong Kong is against the mainland Govt. I have debated the issue of the protest movement a dozen times with him.


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## Itachi

Rasengan said:


> Arrogance is the camouflage for insecurity and you have this in abundance when you have no answer. Both Zaid Hamid and you are two peas in the same pod. Read your previous post carefully below.



And going back to personal insults isn't a bad habit? 



Rasengan said:


> Unless you are a mind reader what evidence do you have I was born at a time when Pakistanis elected and supported corrupt leaders? Furthermore, what proof do you have I was even born in Pakistan? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but nothing is more dangerous than ignorance. Before writing nonsense at least have the facts in front of you. Otherwise, you'll be firing blanks in a debate making you look like a fool.
> 
> Who are you to judge other Pakistanis? Only a retard would point fingers at others while portraying himself as a saint. If you have a problem with the past then take this issue to your own forefathers instead of preaching to others. When did I advocate China was God? @waz I don't normally report a post but it's outrageous what he accuses other members of.



Again, all you have to show is personal insults...

Your English comprehension skills are showing....by "you" I don't mean you personally....I clearly said "You guys" meaning the whole nation....I even said "You guys since 1947..."....that in itself is clear that I'm calling out the whole nation, all Pakistanis until the election of IK....

We all know the history of Pakistan, how dictatorships started, how "democracy" was given a chance...etc etc...all in all, the people of Pakistan failed Pakistan, whether there was outside help in obstructing the rise of Pakistan or not...

Remember, Allah doesn't change a peoples condition until they want to change themselves....when change happened and IK got elected, things have finally started getting set on the right track.

But this is going beyond the topic of discussion at hand, all I'm doing is explaining my points to you whereas you and Myth keep throwing personal insults. 



Rasengan said:


> Who are you to judge other Pakistanis? Only a retard would point fingers at others while portraying himself as a saint.



Again, where did I say I was on the right or I am a saint concerning the matter of the situation of the past??

I just said simply said that I wasn't part of the equation. 

And you in your highly biased mind took it as me "portraying [my]self as a saint"....




Rasengan said:


> What backbone does Turkey have? The Turkish economy is falling apart, unemployment is rising and the image of Erdogan has deteriorated domestically and internationally. The last time Erdogan had a meeting with Xi he struck a positive note on the treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang. The recent conference in Kuala Lumpur showed he didn't even mention the Uyghurs once even though the event was focused on the national security of the Muslim world. One member from the audience asked the question on the treatment of Uyghurs in China. What do you think was the response of Mahathir, Erdogan, and Rouhani? All three of them ignored the question.



Turkey's economy isn't "falling apart"....it just went through a Recession. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nment-eyes-acceleration-in-2020-idUSKBN1Y60IJ

I'm sure you can read the headline through the URL....it's a recent article, from a good news source & the article is from this month.

The image....whatever of it....if everyone was concerned with "making an image"...the US wouldn't be invading 10 different countries (made up number to imply many) in the span of 20 years and upending the whole country.....similarly, the West wouldn't be hypocritic, Muslims would be observant of their religion and so on...

In real life, as I'm sure you know, whoever has the bigger stick gets to do what they want to do.......Turkey started their offense into Syria because they had to do it (another topic; this is just an example).....they didn't care about "image making" & stopped the invasion...

Going to being quiet about the Uyghurs...we all accept, even the pro-Uyghurs, that China is very powerful and Muslim nations in their current situation aren't....not as much as we would like them (the Muslim nations) to be...so things have been quiet but no one is being silent...there's still uproar in the general public! 

For example: 

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/poli...sia-chinas-pr-blitz-uygurs-sparks-anger-among

One day, leaders will have to speak up again. And that is the day when the pro-Uyghur movement will take its next step...



Rasengan said:


> *You have read articles while I have been inside the country multiple times and spoken to hundreds of Uyghurs.* But who am I to stop you in your pursuit of becoming an internet scholar. You remind me of a puppy who seeks constant attention. The last time I spoke on this subject was 6 months ago so spare me your bullshit. Did I quote your post or did you engage me first on the subject? If you want to spread awareness then take your sermons to someone else.



Oh wow!!

After 3 pages of going back and forth, plus adding the months you have come every time to post pro-China posts.....you think now is the time to make such a statement!? 

What proof do you have that spoke to "hundreds of Uyghurs"? 

Please do share the stories with us.....and video footage, interviews and such...

Were you allowed to make a video in public in Xinjiang, ask Uyghurs questions? 

I'll be eagerly awaiting such proof. 



Rasengan said:


> Keep believing such nonsense



Okie dokie! 



Rasengan said:


> Rasengan means a spiral sphere. When plotted on a chart in a fractal way it looks like a Fibonacci Arc a principle that I apply in my work. I also won't deny I was a fan of the show but the first reason was more important than the second.



Copy.....for sec I thought you were another Naruto fanboi...but in a sense, anything that's a semi circle can look like a Fibonacci Arc 



Rasengan said:


> Remind me again what Itachi did in the show? He killed the entire Uchiha clan because it threatened the national interests of the village. The Uchiha coup would have led to the 4th ninja war and Konoha couldn't afford to fight against the other big nations. The same principle applies to Pakistan.



As as such, a Pakistani Itachi cleanses Pakistan of all it's filth thus saving it from impending doom or at least preparing it for it.....you see Itachi from your point of view, putting him into a nice picture where Pakistan frees itself from the US camp but happily puts itself under the tutelage of China...

A Pakistani Itachi would do no such thing. You need to look into the broader character of Itachi...how after seemingly betraying the village, he infiltrated the Akatsuki. 

And as we all know, even tho Itachi got tricked by Obito in the end, Itachi was still talented enough scare the shit out of Orochimaru while spying on the Akatsuki, a world renown & feared terrorist organization up for hire....trying to destabilize nation states. I think I have given you enough hints already. 



Rasengan said:


> The Chinese member from Hong Kong is against the mainland Govt. I have debated the issue of the protest movement a dozen times with him.



Still, he's a Chinese.....just from the opposite side of the Coin. 

His perspective on Chinese issue is, in my opinion, more important than uber nationalistic Chinese's that don't lose any sleep over any type of inhumanity or immorality.

An example:


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Itachi said:


> The British didn't create any nations. Read an actual history book.
> 
> *Nations win their independence!* Who in their right mind would let go of their sovereign claims??



Last time when sub continent Muslims tried to "win their independence" from british empire they were slaughtered! 1800s rebellion is the prime example.
British empire was not going to stay for ever. It came up with new exit strategy, it started nurturing future leaders of many countries. Its funny how bunch of Britishers got together and drew maps of nations that are suppose to win "independence" and installed their puppets who ensure Muslim nations remain confused as fuc as to which ruling system to fallow. Tell me in which Islamic history did they ever get independence like that? Did salahuddin first go to the crusaders land (europe) get nurtured and then asked them to draw maps for muslim's land or did he fight them until they were kicked out? Now Muslims specially pakistanis will come up with many excuses like oh jinnah was a great lawyer who fought his cases in britian well tell me would that have been possible during peak of british empire when they were busy slaughtering muslims and looting? The reason why pakistan is in a mess today leads back to its formation. listen kid, i have already discussed this couple of years ago and if u r interested u r more then welcome to go through my posts.



> Do you know what "light years" stand for?? If they're "light years" ahead of Pakistan...why're they still living on planet Earth??
> Your misgivings are quite astounding....same thing was said when Pakistan wanted to build nukes....did anyone eat grass then or/& now??







> Without Pakistani support, China would be isolated like it was in the global economy. It would not be able to have OBOR or CPEC which will be the juglar veins to its economy from now on.


You have yet to provide any evidence of Pakistan's contribution in Chinese trillion dollars economy instead of some senescence.


> Without CPEC/OBOR, the USN (US Navy) can easily blockade Chinese imports in the SCS (South China Sea)....which is why China is investing so heavily into Pakistan because guess what.....China needs Pakistan as much, if not more, as Pakistan needs China!


CPEC is among many of Chinese investments. If one fails they are already on another plan...
Btw Pakistani Sea ports have only contributed less then 1% of Chinese economy.


> But if you want to act like a good slave like Pakistan has done to the British Empire & the US....continue on!






> I have answered most of your counter arguments...I would have continued on but this clearly shows that in the end, you're showing your upbringing.
> 
> Insults, slurs & slandering...what else can be expected from certain Pakistanis huh?


im sorry bru, im just allergic to bullsh1t.
btw dont expect a reply back from me... im done wasting my time with you.

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## Itachi

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Last time when sub continent Muslims tried to "win their independence" from british empire they were slaughtered! 1800s rebellion is the prime example.
> British empire was not going to stay for ever. It came up with new exit strategy, it started nurturing future leaders of many countries. Its funny how bunch of Britishers got together and drew maps of nations that are suppose to win "independence" and installed their puppets who ensure Muslim nations remain confused as fuc as to which ruling system to fallow. Tell me in which Islamic history did they ever get independence like that? Did salahuddin first go to the crusaders land (europe) get nurtured and then asked them to draw maps for muslim's land or did he fight them until they were kicked out? Now Muslims specially pakistanis will come up with many excuses like oh jinnah was a great lawyer who fought his cases in britian well tell me would that have been possible during peak of british empire when they were busy slaughtering muslims and looting? The reason why pakistan is in a mess today leads back to its formation. listen kid, i have already discussed this couple of years ago and if u r interested u r more then welcome to go through my posts.



There's seriously something wrong with you lol...

1) You can't write in paragraphs.

2) You're saying that the hundreds of thousands of Muslims, if not millions, that pushed & fought for Independence was for nothing...

3) You're giving British too much credit...while they did drew lines on the map....Pakistan still got 1/3 of Kashmir and could have gotten more if not for bad leadership.

4) Your issues with Jinnah are very appalling. The man died to make Pakistan a reality and this is what you have to say about him??

Please do get your head checked up...



Myth_buster_1 said:


> thats why i call you chotiya



You're only calling yourself that....all uttered by a human towards another human only come flying back....especially if a Muslim calls another Muslim that word. 



Myth_buster_1 said:


> You have yet to provide any evidence of Pakistan's contribution in Chinese trillion dollars economy instead of some senescence.



















I did the google search for you 




Myth_buster_1 said:


> CPEC is among many of Chinese investments. If one fails they are already on another plan...
> Btw Pakistani Sea ports have only contributed less then 1% of Chinese economy.



Right...





















So you see....if CPEC fails....OBOR won't have much of a chance.

If you want to keep living in delusion then I can't help you. I can't help anyone see their worth if they don't want to see the reality. 



Myth_buster_1 said:


>








*Start practising!* 



Myth_buster_1 said:


> im sorry bru, im just allergic to bullsh1t.
> btw dont expect a reply back from me... im done wasting my time with you.


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## Myth_buster_1

Itachi said:


> There's seriously something wrong with you lol...
> 
> 1) You can't write in paragraphs.


it. is. ok.


> 2) You're saying that the hundreds of thousands of Muslims, if not millions, that pushed & fought for Independence was for nothing...


That was the plan by Britishit empire so after they leave we just fight each other. Not saying muslim hindus were living in harmony before british empire but atleast during muslim's rule they were in much better relations then they are today. 


> 3) You're giving British too much credit...while they did drew lines on the map....Pakistan still got 1/3 of Kashmir and could have gotten more if not for bad leadership.


Tell me how exactly was east and west pakistan gonna turn out with a giant opponent between the two parts? Its like Pakistan was already created to be separated from beginning to give india an upper hand. 


> 4) Your issues with Jinnah are very appalling. The man died to make Pakistan a reality and this is what you have to say about him?


You do know spies and agents also die for a mission. that guy along with rest of other nation leadership including ghandi were all british empire asset who worked for one goal. how to implement british empire corrupt system after they are gone. What if i tell you he had deep links with freemasonry and many other dark secret societies? 
would you not call afghan government american poodle if they are all brought up in US and implemented through deception? 


> Please do get your head checked up...


sure



> You're only calling yourself that....all uttered by a human towards another human only come flying back....especially if a Muslim calls another Muslim that word.


actually you are a nice guy and im sorry for calling u name.




> View attachment 595804
> 
> 
> View attachment 595805
> 
> 
> View attachment 595806
> 
> 
> 
> I did the google search for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right...
> 
> View attachment 595810
> 
> 
> View attachment 595811
> 
> 
> View attachment 595809
> 
> 
> View attachment 595812
> 
> 
> So you see....if CPEC fails....OBOR won't have much of a chance.
> 
> If you want to keep living in delusion then I can't help you. I can't help anyone see their worth if they don't want to see the reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Start practising!*




Bro, China recently started using Pakistani sea port and even then it still does not contribute 1% of chinese $12 trillion economy where as pakistan is almost depending on CEPEC for its survival of its economy. 
btw you were supposed to enlighten us how Pakistan played its role building Chinese $12 trillion dollar economy yet pakistan failed to sustain few hundred billion dollars in past 10-20 years.

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## Itachi

Myth_buster_1 said:


> That was the plan by Britishit empire so after they leave we just fight each other. Not saying muslim hindus were living in harmony before british empire but atleast during muslim's rule they were in much better relations then they are today.



That plan only worked because of inept leadership on our part....too many depended on Jinnah alone. Just like today, too many are depending on IK alone.

We needed a whole system back then, we need it now. 1 man can only do so much...

Be glad we even got Pakistan since the original British plan was for Pakistan to collapse in mere months and for India to absorb it. 

Either way, you give too much credit to the British.....you only see their plans that worked...not the bigger plans that failed because of Jinnah & the help of Allah SWT. 

We got 1/3 of Kashmir which wasn't on the map for us and could have gotten the rest if not for.....wait for it!.....inept leadership! 



Myth_buster_1 said:


> Tell me how exactly was east and west pakistan gonna turn out with a giant opponent between the two parts? Its like Pakistan was already created to be separated from beginning to give india an upper hand.



If I give you sour grapes, it's up to your to take the seeds and grow a vineyard or complain about it....not my problem....I just gave you grapes!

Similarly, we had India cornered from 2 sides....if we had kept up brotherly relations with East Pakistan and didn't have.....wait for it!......inept leadership, East Pakistan would have still been with us today.

Remember, they only went for East Pakistan after our 1965 debacle....where we still didn't get Kashmir and never even thought of pushing for North-East Indian territory, which would have made a lot of sense after the war too.....we could have traded the NE territory for Kashmir or kept it and pushed further into India from the East, which would have kept the Indians more busy...







Look at that...it would have been so easy (in relative terms) to take that!



Myth_buster_1 said:


> You do know spies and agents also die for a mission. that guy along with rest of other nation leadership including ghandi were all british empire asset who worked for one goal. how to implement british empire corrupt system after they are gone. What if i tell you he had deep links with freemasonry and many other dark secret societies?
> would you not call afghan government american poodle if they are all brought up in US and implemented through deception?



I read up on Jinnah and all the conspiracies regarding him being a Freemason are just that...conspiracies.

If you have proof, please show it to me. I do believe in Freemasons (many of US presidents have been one) but I never believed that Jinnah was one due to his relationship with Iqbal, who himself called Jinnah back from London to speed up the pro-Pakistan movement.

Again, I would like to see proofs (links & sources) on the matter regarding you pov (point of view) of Jinnah.



Myth_buster_1 said:


> actually you are a nice guy and im sorry for calling u name.



oh wow....what made your heart soften? 

You still gotta sing this tho:






Or Xi Jinping might get mad at you and block CPEC. 




Myth_buster_1 said:


> Bro, China recently started using Pakistani sea port and even then it still does not contribute 1% of chinese $12 trillion economy where as pakistan is almost depending on CEPEC for its survival of its economy.
> btw you were supposed to enlighten us how Pakistan played its role building Chinese $12 trillion dollar economy yet pakistan failed to sustain few hundred billion dollars in past 10-20 years.



So why would they make a $50B+ investment without seeking ROI (return on investment)??

Instead of making $$$ from CPEC/OBOR, they saving $$$, billions of it.....they're also bypassing the SCS & Straits of Malacca, where their ships would have been blockaded & destroyed by USN & allies. That in itself is a very big saving.

_I have said it already and I'll say it once more......whatever the Pakistani govt. wants you to believe.....the reality being.....China needs Pakistan more than the other way around. 
_
Heck, we can even make China do things because of our relationship, like not persecute Uyghurs but only if the Pakistani govt. had balls.....which were never present since 1947 for the most part.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Itachi said:


> That plan only worked because of inept leadership on our part....too many depended on Jinnah alone. Just like today, too many are depending on IK alone.
> 
> We needed a whole system back then, we need it now. 1 man can only do so much...



We as Pakistanis look at only end result. We never question how the result was achieved or why even if it is in their own benefit. Think of it this way.. Everybody except for one student fails math class. That student is given all answers the day before by the teacher. I will further explain this analogy in the post. 



> Be glad we even got Pakistan since the original British plan was for Pakistan to collapse in mere months and for India to absorb it.
> 
> Either way, you give too much credit to the British.....you only see their plans that worked...not the bigger plans that failed because of Jinnah & the help of Allah SWT.



It was against British plan to have united India since it would have remained in constant struggle among hindus and muslims. Imagine India with current situation 10 times worst! And I'm not suggesting we should have remained with Endia.



> We got 1/3 of Kashmir which wasn't on the map for us and could have gotten the rest if not for.....wait for it!.....inept leadership!


Kashmir was one of the conflict created by British empire just to make sure both India and Pakistan would never get along with each other.



> If I give you sour grapes, it's up to your to take the seeds and grow a vineyard or complain about it....not my problem....I just gave you grapes!
> 
> Similarly, we had India cornered from 2 sides....if we had kept up brotherly relations with East Pakistan and didn't have.....wait for it!......inept leadership, East Pakistan would have still been with us today.


Pakistan was is and will never be in a position to have leverage over India with two geographically separated Pakistan. It's a logistical nightmare to have full control unless you are a super power with a weaker nation in between you who pose no threat. Now imagine Kashmir on western side of Pakistan's border. India would have failed long time ago to secure it from Pakistan's invasion because of..... wait for it!.... logistical nightmare 




> Remember, they only went for East Pakistan after our 1965 debacle....where we still didn't get Kashmir and never even thought of pushing for North-East Indian territory, which would have made a lot of sense after the war too.....we could have traded the NE territory for Kashmir or kept it and pushed further into India from the East, which would have kept the Indians more busy..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at that...it would have been so easy (in relative terms) to take that!
> 
> .



To be honest with you, Pak won 65 to some extent because of Air force! It was a tie between the land forces since Pakistan failed to achieve its objectives. And India was very smart because they did not wanted to exploit east pakistan situation and instead waited for right moment in the form of 71 war. 
I wont consider Bangladesh "traitors" since they have more commonality with India then Pakistan we lets be honest we were not fair with them. 
The point is, it just made NO sense to provide Pakistan with east! The saying goes "don't bite off more than you can chew." The Brits gifted Pakistan's weakness to India.



> I read up on Jinnah and all the conspiracies regarding him being a Freemason are just that...conspiracies.
> 
> If you have proof, please show it to me. I do believe in Freemasons (many of US presidents have been one) but I never believed that Jinnah was one due to his relationship with Iqbal, who himself called Jinnah back from London to speed up the pro-Pakistan movement.
> 
> Again, I would like to see proofs (links & sources) on the matter regarding you pov (point of view) of Jinnah.



Okay,

So you want to know he had more connection with Freemasonry then Islam? 

His political career was started by..... Naoroji who was a Zoroastrian and a freemason
He married a zoroastrian Ruttie who practiced witchcraft and later he had to separate from her because muslims started to question him. Later his daughter married a zoroastrian. 
He was a follower of Annie Beasent and referred to her as "mother" who was a co-freemason who herself was a devoted follower of 
*Helena Petrovna Blavatsky* and you can learn more about here in this video.

(PS, ignore his other BS or you can gather information about her on your own)






He joined fabian society which is an occult society and among its members was his mother annie beasent.
And then we hear that later during his career he was transformed into a muslim freedom fighter or what ever but all he did was jump from one occult society to another! 
Muslim league was formed by Aga khan who himself was a fat fk Freemason!
And then pakistanis also claimed that he was transformed into a visionary muslim leader by iqbal, bro! He was knighted by the freakin QUEEN! all he did was wright poetry while he was high! I dont want to discuss this in much detail because it just boggles my mind that we all have been duped by Brit empire! 
Now very few records exist about his attempt to join freemasonry. However when Pakistan was formed Freemasonry lodges existed all across pakistan which was refered by the locals as "bhoot bangla" and he NEVER utter a word against it! 





> oh wow....what made your heart soften?
> 
> You still gotta sing this tho:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or Xi Jinping might get mad at you and block CPEC.











> So why would they make a $50B+ investment without seeking ROI (return on investment)??
> 
> Instead of making $$$ from CPEC/OBOR, they saving $$$, billions of it.....they're also bypassing the SCS & Straits of Malacca, where their ships would have been blockaded & destroyed by USN & allies. That in itself is a very big saving.
> 
> _I have said it already and I'll say it once more......whatever the Pakistani govt. wants you to believe.....the reality being.....China needs Pakistan more than the other way around.
> _
> Heck, we can even make China do things because of our relationship, like not persecute Uyghurs but only if the Pakistani govt. had balls.....which were never present since 1947 for the most part.



Bro, CPEC is a investment that has ZERO contribution in Chinese economy! why do you keep bringing CPEC into this? You have yet to provide me some evidence about Pakistan's role in building China's 12 trillion dollar economy!

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## Beast

Itachi said:


> Heck, we can even make China do things because of our relationship, like not persecute Uyghurs but only if the Pakistani govt. had balls.....which were never present since 1947 for the most part.



Really?

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## Beast




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## Pax Pakistanica

Beast said:


> Really?





Beast said:


>








I don't think it's a good idea to defend your position by posting a news report from an outlet that is solely funded by the Chinese government. They are no different from the Kremlin-funded Russian TV which does its absolute best to present Russia as a utopian society and its infallible leader Vladimir Putin.

What do you have to say regarding these leaked Chinese documents regarding the East Turkmen? 





https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/china-xinjiang-documents.html

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## Beast

Vedas said:


> View attachment 596953
> 
> I don't think it's a good idea to defend your position by posting a news report from an outlet that is solely funded by the Chinese government. They are no different from the Kremlin-funded Russian TV which does its absolute best to present Russia as a utopian society and its infallible leader Vladimir Putin.
> 
> What do you have to say regarding these leaked Chinese documents regarding the East Turkmen?
> 
> View attachment 596956
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/china-xinjiang-documents.html



You seriously think Washington Post , CNN or nytimes are true independent media outlet? As included Free Asia radio?

Is does not matter, it government agency or not. What matters is the fact presented by CGTN. Is the fake video accused against Chinese government made up? A simple search by you can easily found out the true whether malicious lies of fake torture by other against China really happen anot. The fact, this video even present name and face of the victim claim to be missing but not. Clearly shown Chinese government are confident of the truth. A true independent agency can easily travel to xinjiang and ask those on spot for verification while the western propangada present question source which cannot be verify.

I don't see how my video post got anything to do with the truth. Are you going to deny there is no agenda or biases against Chinese by western media?

As for that report, there is no way the media can verify the authenticity of it but purely post vague link to imply it.

Let me ask you , how do you know it's an official document? Can logo and stamp be faked? Sure I don't need an expert to tell u that.

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## Pax Pakistanica

Myth_buster_1 said:


> British empire was not going to stay for ever. It came up with new exit strategy, it started nurturing future leaders of many countries. Its funny how bunch of Britishers got together and drew maps of nations that are suppose to win "independence" and installed their puppets who ensure Muslim nations remain confused as fuc as to which ruling system to fallow. Tell me in which Islamic history did they ever get independence like that? Did salahuddin first go to the crusaders land (europe) get nurtured and then asked them to draw maps for muslim's land or did he fight them until they were kicked out?



Reminds me of the Earl of Cromer, who tried to popularize and liberalize his administration in Egypt in an attempt to slowly secularize and strip Islam from the society.

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## Pax Pakistanica

Beast said:


> You seriously think Washington Post , CNN or nytimes are true independent media outlet? As included Free Asia radio?
> 
> Is does not matter, it government agency or not. What matters is the fact presented by CGTN. Is the fake video accused against Chinese government made up? A simple search by you can easily found out the true whether malicious lies of fake torture by other against China really happen anot. The fact, this video even present name and face of the victim claim to be missing but not. Clearly shown Chinese government are confident of the truth. A true independent agency can easily travel to xinjiang and ask those on spot for verification while the western propangada present question source which cannot be verify.
> 
> I don't see how my video post got anything to do with the truth. Are you going to deny there is no agenda or biases against Chinese by western media?
> 
> As for that report, there is no way the media can verify the authenticity of it but purely post vague link to imply it.
> 
> Let me ask you , how do you know it's an official document? Can logo and stamp be faked? Sure I don't need an expert to tell u that.



If such were the case, the Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang would have denied these documents completely as absolute rubbish, but instead accused New York Times' reporters of willful misinterpretation. One must also ask how these documents have so much written regarding the internal affairs of Xingjiang and the actions of Wang Yongzhi. The news report that I presented to you has documents that include directives and reports on the surveillance and control of the East Turkmen population in Xinjiang, and 44 pages of material from internal investigations into local officials.

Regarding an "independent agency" that isn't funded by any particular nation. Vice, ventured into Xingjiang and were followed all-around their drive to Kashgar. There are numerous testimonies by East Turkmen ex-pats in Canada, Australia, and America regarding their extended families being under arrest by the Chinese government.

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## Destrius

Under Chinese rule: Beards and burkhas banned. Alcohol and miniskirts allowed.

Under Islamist rule: Miniskirts and alcohol banned. Beards and burkhas for everyone.

It's commendable China is trying to uplift it's people out of the middle ages. I don't think there is any reason to criticize the Chinese on how they run their own country.


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## Indos

*Indonesia seeks clarification on latest situation in Xinjiang*
20th December 2019






"So from time to time, we conduct communication. This shows how serious we are to see development in the field"

Jakarta (ANTARA) - The Indonesian Foreign Ministry continues to seek clarification from the Chinese government about the latest developments in Xinjiang region related to the alleged discrimination and persecution of the Uighur Muslim ethnic group. "Indonesia has made and will always make approaches with the Chinese government through bilateral communication to discuss the Xinjiang issue," spokesman for the Foreign Ministry Teuku Faizasyah said in Jakarta Friday,

"So from time to time, we conduct communication. This shows how serious we are to see development in the field," he said.

Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi also touched on the Xinjiang issue during a meeting with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi on the sidelines of the 14th Asia-Europe Ministerial Meeting held in Madrid, Spain, on Monday, December 18.

At the meeting, Retno asked Wang Yi to clarify the latest situation in Xinjiang. Wang Yi said China guarantees freedom of religion for Muslims in Xinjiang.

Earlier in the day, Indonesian Ulemas Council (MUI) Secretary General Anwar Abbas urged the ongoing Kuala Lumpur (KL) Summit to take a firm, stern stance against China to optimally fight the repression of the Uighur ethnic group in Xinjiang.

"The MUI calls on participants of the summit of Islamic countries in Kuala Lumpur or the KL Summit to take a firm and firm stance against the Chinese government," Abbas noted in a written statement released Friday.

Muslims across the world vehemently oppose China's mistreatment of Uighur Muslims, he stated.

The Chinese government has blatantly violated the human rights of Uighur Muslims, including preventing them from offering religious services under their religion and belief, he remarked.

"We realize that as a state, China has the right to govern them. However, they must not suppress the human rights of their people, especially the fundamental rights of Muslims there," he said.

He urged the Chinese government to end the violence against Uighur Muslims with immediate effect. The ethnic minority in China should be allowed to exercise their religious rights and follow their religious teachings properly.

In the absence of this, the world will be dragged into new local and global tensions, he cautioned.

"People in each country, especially Muslim nations, including Indonesia, will appeal to their government to take a firm stand against the Chinese government. Thus, it will have a detrimental impact on the development they are conducting," he added.

Reporter: Yashinta Difa/Suharto
Editor: Gusti Nur Cahya Aryani
COPYRIGHT © ANTARA 2019

https://en.antaranews.com/news/138500/indonesia-seeks-clarification-on-latest-situation-in-xinjiang

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## UKBengali

Well done Indonesia!

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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> Well done Indonesia!



Indonesia: China, please clarify what you're doing in Xinjiang.
China: F*ck off.
Indonesia: Thank you for the clarification.

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## Indos

UKBengali said:


> Well done Indonesia!



Antara is also an Indonesia government news agency. So the news here is not made just for the sake of getting the reader. It has both Indonesian and English version. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antara_(news_agency)

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## UKBengali

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Indonesia: China, please clarify what you're doing in Xinjiang.
> China: F*ck off.
> Indonesia: Thank you for the clarification.



Both Turkey and Indonesia are now speaking up publicly.
More Muslim countries will follow.

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## mike2000 is back

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Indonesia: China, please clarify what you're doing in Xinjiang.
> China: F*ck off.
> Indonesia: Thank you for the clarification.


LOL At least they tried i guess.

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## Indos

mike2000 is back said:


> LOL At least they tried i guess.



That is not the first attempt 

*China responds to Indonesia’s question about alleged abuse of Xinjiang’s Muslims*

Dian Septiari
The Jakarta Post

Bandung / Thu, December 20, 2018 / 11:35 am



Men dance in front of the Id Kah Mosque after morning prayers on June 26, 2017 during Idul Fitri in the old town of Kashgar in China's Xinjiang Uighur autonomous region. (Agence France -Presse/Johannes Esielle)

China has responded to Indonesia’s question about alleged human rights abuse against Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang, saying that Beijing guaranteed the religious freedom of all of its citizens, including the Uighurs. 

A Chinese Embassy spokesman in Jakarta said in a statement on Thursday that “China is a country with multiple ethnic groups and religions".

“As prescribed in the Constitution, all Chinese citizens enjoy the freedom of religious belief,” the statement said.

The statement said that the Chinese government was facing the threat of religious extremism in Xinjiang, which is home to about 14 million Muslims. Some Xinjiang residents, it said, had struggled to find jobs because of their poor command of the nation’s official language and lack of skills.

“This has made them vulnerable to the instigation and coercion of terrorism and extremism,” it said.

“In light of the situation, Xinjiang has established professional vocational training institutions as the platform, providing courses on China’s common language, legal knowledge, vocational skills, along with de-radicalization education for citizens influenced by extremist ideas.”

Previously, the Foreign Ministry said it had summoned Chinese Ambassador to Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday to convey the concerns of Indonesian Muslims about the plight of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang.

“The Foreign Ministry stressed that in accordance with the universal declaration of human rights, religious freedom and belief are human rights and it is the responsibility of all countries to respect it,” ministry spokesperson Arrmanatha Nasir told reporters on the sidelines of the Diplofest event on Wednesday evening.

He said Xiao Qian conveyed China’s commitment to the protection of human rights. In addition, the ambassador said it was very important for the Indonesian public to know the condition of the Uighurs in Xinjiang, an autonomous region.

“Even though it is a domestic issue, the Foreign Ministry noted the embassy’s intention to expand communication with various civil society groups in order to convey information about the condition of the Uighur community.”

The summons of the Chinese ambassador came shortly after Indonesian Islamic groups demanded an explanation on the situation in Xinjiang. 

Western countries have accused China of persecuting Uighurs through its “re-education centers”, which Beijing insisted were actually vocational and training centers that combat religious extremism. 

The situation in Xinjiang was highlighted during China’s third United Nations Human Rights Council’s universal periodic review last month.

Human Rights Watch says Uighur people in particular are subject to intense surveillance and are made to give DNA and biometric samples.

Muhammadiyah chairman Haedar Nashir said if the reports were true, then China had violated universal human rights and his organization was ready to mobilize humanitarian and material support for peace in Xinjiang, especially for the Uighur community.

”The Chinese government’s inaction is feared to hurt diplomatic relations between Indonesia and China, and the good relations our people have had for centuries,” Haedar said as quoted by Antara on Wednesday.

Social media messages calling on Indonesians to take to the streets to defend Uighurs have been circulating online in the last few days. 

On Monday, the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) advisory council leader and former chairman of Muhammadiyah, Din Syamsuddin, said the alleged crackdown was an outright violation of basic human rights and demanded that the Indonesian government take firm action to advocate for the Uighur people.

Responding to the MUI’s call, Vice President Jusuf Kalla said Indonesia would not interfere in China’s handling of Uighur Muslims.

“Of course we reject or [want to] prevent any human rights violations. However, we don’t want to intervene in the domestic affairs of another country,” Kalla told journalists on Monday.

The Chinese Embassy’s spokesman said that, “China and Indonesia have always supported each other on issues concerning respective major interests.

“I believe after knowing the real situation in Xinjiang, our Indonesian friends would better understand and support the Chinese government's efforts to combat terrorism and extremism and to safeguard stability and security in Xinjiang,” he said.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...about-alleged-abuse-of-xinjiangs-muslims.html

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## Sehnsucht

My respect for Indonesia grows day by day.Hope to see it claim a leadership position of the Muslim world in the future.

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## Ritual

May Allah bless Indonesia. Your citizens came out to protest, without any call or campaign in the so called protector of the Holy Mosques or the Arab world, they took their own initiative to seek help for the Uighurs. Well done.

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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> Both Turkey and Indonesia are now speaking up publicly.
> More Muslim countries will follow.


Blather as much as you like, see if it changes anything. Oh, and keep taking China's money; everybody knows what that makes you.

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## UKBengali

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Blather as much as you like, see if it changes anything. Oh, and keep taking China's money; everybody knows what that makes you.




As if China gives BD anything for free.

These are loans that BD will pay back with interest(2-3% a year)

Pressure on China is going to get more intense.

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## mike2000 is back

Petrichor said:


> My respect for Indonesia grows day by day.Hope to see it claim a leadership position of the Muslim world in the future.


Why is that when there's a news of a Muslim majority country taking any foreign action remotely Muslim related you guys immediately start saying that country should be the leader of the Muslim world ?
I have seen that many times on here. Some will claim Turkey/erdogan should be the leader of Muslim world if he says anything regarding Muslims , some will claim Egypt should be the leader if there's a similar case, same with Iran if they said/did anything remotely similar , others will say Pakistan , others Saudi arabia , others Malaysia etc etc for various reasons .

So who is going to/should be the leader then?

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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> Pressure on China is going to get more intense.



^My reaction when an ant thinks it can pressure an elephant. Get real. As I said, you can blather as much as you want, you can think you're applying all kinds of pressure and declare victory even as you suffer defeat after crippling defeat - it's something Muslim countries specialize in. Israel sh*ts all over you, America sh*ts all over you, Europe sh*ts all over you, Russia sh*ts all over you; hell, even Myanmar sh*ts all over you. Your own rulers sh*t all over you because they know well exactly what kind of creatures you are.

China tried to treat you with respect, but you're incapable of reciprocating respect. What can I say, one can't expect a cockroach to become a butterfly. You are determined to provoke China into sh*tting all over you like everyone else. Be careful what you wish for, China (like the elephant I began this discussion with) can drop a deuce on you bigger than all the rest that got dumped on you put together.



UKBengali said:


> These are loans that BD will pay back with interest(2-3% a year)


Even if you pay the money back (doubtful), it still makes you a wh*re. Why are you doing business with those who oppress Muslims? The money's too good, right?

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## Ritual

mike2000 is back said:


> Why is that when there's a news of a Muslim majority country taking any foreign action remotely Muslim related you guys immediately start saying that country should be the leader of the Muslim world ?
> I have seen that many times on here. Some will claim Turkey/erdogan should be the leader of Muslim world if he says anything regarding Muslims , some will claim Egypt should be the leader if there's a similar case, same with Iran if they said/did anything remotely similar , others will say Pakistan , others Saudi arabia , others Malaysia etc etc for various reasons .
> 
> So who is going to/should be the leader then?



Because there needs to be some leadership. Its been too long that the Gulf has effectively been arm twisted into paying protection money to the US and reneged on their historic leadership role. As the US has effectively become imbued with Evangelical zeal since George Bush era and thinks there is no opposition to it bombing the hell out of these countries.


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## ZeEa5KPul

mike2000 is back said:


> So who is going to/should be the leader then?


They've been fighting over that question amongst themselves for a hundred years since the Ottoman empire fell (in truth, they've been fighting over it for the 1400 years since their prophet died; the dissolution of their empire just took the lid off and exposed it to everyone). Maybe in another hundred years they'll get back to us with an answer.

Without a trace of irony I'll say that China should lead it. China has Muslims, therefore China should lead the Muslim world. It's as good a justification as any they have.

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## UKBengali

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Even if you pay the money back (doubtful), it still makes you a wh*re. Why are you doing business with those who oppress Muslims? The money's too good, right?





BD has always paid it's loans back and will do so to China as well.
It has debt to GDP ratio less than 30% of GDP - far lower than most countries.

Why do you do business with Japan after what they did to you in WW2?
No apology either last time I heard.

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## Pakhtoon yum

Indos said:


> *Indonesia seeks clarification on latest situation in Xinjiang*
> 20th December 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "So from time to time, we conduct communication. This shows how serious we are to see development in the field"
> 
> Jakarta (ANTARA) - The Indonesian Foreign Ministry continues to seek clarification from the Chinese government about the latest developments in Xinjiang region related to the alleged discrimination and persecution of the Uighur Muslim ethnic group. "Indonesia has made and will always make approaches with the Chinese government through bilateral communication to discuss the Xinjiang issue," spokesman for the Foreign Ministry Teuku Faizasyah said in Jakarta Friday,
> 
> "So from time to time, we conduct communication. This shows how serious we are to see development in the field," he said.
> 
> Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi also touched on the Xinjiang issue during a meeting with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi on the sidelines of the 14th Asia-Europe Ministerial Meeting held in Madrid, Spain, on Monday, December 18.
> 
> At the meeting, Retno asked Wang Yi to clarify the latest situation in Xinjiang. Wang Yi said China guarantees freedom of religion for Muslims in Xinjiang.
> 
> Earlier in the day, Indonesian Ulemas Council (MUI) Secretary General Anwar Abbas urged the ongoing Kuala Lumpur (KL) Summit to take a firm, stern stance against China to optimally fight the repression of the Uighur ethnic group in Xinjiang.
> 
> "The MUI calls on participants of the summit of Islamic countries in Kuala Lumpur or the KL Summit to take a firm and firm stance against the Chinese government," Abbas noted in a written statement released Friday.
> 
> Muslims across the world vehemently oppose China's mistreatment of Uighur Muslims, he stated.
> 
> The Chinese government has blatantly violated the human rights of Uighur Muslims, including preventing them from offering religious services under their religion and belief, he remarked.
> 
> "We realize that as a state, China has the right to govern them. However, they must not suppress the human rights of their people, especially the fundamental rights of Muslims there," he said.
> 
> He urged the Chinese government to end the violence against Uighur Muslims with immediate effect. The ethnic minority in China should be allowed to exercise their religious rights and follow their religious teachings properly.
> 
> In the absence of this, the world will be dragged into new local and global tensions, he cautioned.
> 
> "People in each country, especially Muslim nations, including Indonesia, will appeal to their government to take a firm stand against the Chinese government. Thus, it will have a detrimental impact on the development they are conducting," he added.
> 
> Reporter: Yashinta Difa/Suharto
> Editor: Gusti Nur Cahya Aryani
> COPYRIGHT © ANTARA 2019
> 
> https://en.antaranews.com/news/138500/indonesia-seeks-clarification-on-latest-situation-in-xinjiang


Thank you Indonesia



mike2000 is back said:


> Why is that when there's a news of a Muslim majority country taking any foreign action remotely Muslim related you guys immediately start saying that country should be the leader of the Muslim world ?
> I have seen that many times on here. Some will claim Turkey/erdogan should be the leader of Muslim world if he says anything regarding Muslims , some will claim Egypt should be the leader if there's a similar case, same with Iran if they said/did anything remotely similar , others will say Pakistan , others Saudi arabia , others Malaysia etc etc for various reasons .
> 
> So who is going to/should be the leader then?


Dora the explorer

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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> Why do you do business with Japan after what they did to you in WW2?


Cute dodge. Japan oppress*ed* China, China is oppress*ing* Muslims. What Japan did is in the past, what China is doing is an ongoing present. So, once again, why are you doing business with China?

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## UKBengali

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Cute dodge. Japan oppress*ed* China, China is oppress*ing* Muslims. What Japan did is in the past, what China is doing is an ongoing present. So, once again, why are you doing business with China?




Still no apology and you do business with them.

China is desperate to do business with BD last time I saw.

It is the largest Foreign Direct Investor in BD and has also shown interest in the 17-18 billion US dollar 2nd nuclear power project.

Also, does China want in on BD's next-gen frigate programme that will be at least 8 ships(up to 2030) and maybe 16 up to 2040?

China is just as keen to do business with BD as the other way round.

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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> Still no apology and you do business with them.
> 
> China is desperate to do business with BD last time I saw.
> 
> It is the largest Foreign Direct Investor in BD and has also shown interest in the 17-18 billion US dollar 2nd nuclear power project.
> 
> Also, does China want in on BD's next-gen frigate programme that will be at least 8 ships(up to 2030) and maybe 16 up to 2040?
> 
> China is just as keen to do business with BD as the other way round.


I should know better than to expect logic from you, but I'll try anyway. China isn't the one squawking about oppression, you are. China doesn't have a problem doing business with anyone. These are the premises:
1) China is oppressing a group of Muslims and aims to remake their cultural and religious identity.
2) Bangladesh is a Muslim country.
3) Muslims consider all other Muslims to be part of their extended family.
Given 1, 2, and 3, why is Bangladesh doing business with China? Why is any Muslim country doing business with China?
Don't bring up Japan. Don't regurgitate the obvious fact that China does business with X, Y, and Z. Answer the very simple question: why is Bangladesh doing business with China?

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## UKBengali

ZeEa5KPul said:


> I should know better than to expect logic from you, but I'll try anyway. China isn't the one squawking about oppression, you are. China doesn't have a problem doing business with anyone. These are the premises:
> 1) China is oppressing a group of Muslims and aims to remake their cultural and religious identity.
> 2) Bangladesh is a Muslim country.
> 3) Muslims consider all other Muslims to be part of their extended family.
> Given 1, 2, and 3, why is Bangladesh doing business with China? Why is any Muslim country doing business with China?
> Don't bring up Japan. Don't regurgitate the obvious fact that China does business with X, Y, and Z. Answer the very simple question: why is Bangladesh doing business with China?




Same can be said about why China does business with USA.

China accuses USA of trying to sabotage it's rise(rightly so! lol) and still does business with it. When is China going to cut off all economic relations with USA?

In this world no nation is truly free to do business only with nations it freely chooses to and so we have to make do with the reality.

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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> China accuses USA of trying to sabotage it's rise(rightly so! lol) and still does business with it. When is China going to cut off all economic relations with USA?


You have real difficulty sticking to the topic. I can turn your silly example on its head: the US accuses China of trying to take its place in the world (rightly so! lol) and still does business with it. When is America going to cut off all economic relations with China?

Not any time soon, apparently, since Trump (Mr. America First) is crying for a deal with China to save his political career and with it any chance he has of dying outside a prison cell.



UKBengali said:


> In this world no nation is truly free to do business only with nations it freely chooses to and so we have to make do with the reality.


This is obviously the closest thing to a straight answer I'm going to get from you, so I'll work with it. Make do with reality, that's exactly it. Here's the reality: Xinjiang is a matter of China's sovereignty and territorial integrity - it doesn't get bigger than that. China is going to take Uighur culture, grind it into a powder, and then remake it into a Disneyfied parody. Nobody can stop this, it's as immutable as gravity. China will not tolerate its territory being used as a base for terrorism and separatist violence and subversion.

Let me tell you something else: pray to Allah every single day that this process works as quickly and painlessly as possible. Because if it doesn't, if China becomes convinced that the Uighurs are beyond redemption, then "Uighur" will be something that you know only through history books. Whenever you're chanting your silly slogans and doing your hashtag jihads on Twitter, pray quietly for China's success because you can be sure what the alternative will be.

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## UKBengali

ZeEa5KPul said:


> This is obviously the closest thing to a straight answer I'm going to get from you, so I'll work with it. Make do with reality, that's exactly it. Here's the reality: Xinjiang is a matter of China's sovereignty and territorial integrity - it doesn't get bigger than that. China is going to take Uighur culture, grind it into a powder, and then remake it into a Disneyfied parody. Nobody can stop this, it's as immutable as gravity. China will not tolerate its territory being used as a base for terrorism and separatist violence and subversion.
> 
> Let me tell you something else: pray to Allah every single day that this process works as quickly and painlessly as possible. Because if it doesn't, if China becomes convinced that the Uighurs are beyond redemption, then "Uighur" will be something that you know only through history books. Whenever you're chanting your silly slogans and doing your hashtag jihads on Twitter, pray quietly for China's success because you can be sure what the alternative will be.




Thank you for admitting your ongoing efforts at cultural genocide against Uighur.

Like Russia failed to erase Islam, so you will too.

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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> Thank you for admitting your ongoing efforts at cultural genocide against Uighur.


You're welcome, I've never denied it. I wholeheartedly support this policy and have done so ever since I've become aware of it. Some cultures are superior to others, and the superior will replace the inferior; it's as simple as that. If you have any human feeling for the Uighurs, pray that this "cultural genocide" succeeds for their sake, because if it doesn't then China will take the "cultural" out.



UKBengali said:


> Like Russia failed to erase Islam, so you will too.


China will remake the Islam within its borders. Besides, Islam is the West's best friend and will soon be China's as well. Think about it, a billion and a half people share a common history and language. If they ever got their act together they'd have some real weight in the world. Thankfully, Islam is the most retrograde ideology ever devised - its adherents will never rise out of the gutter they're in.

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## UKBengali

ZeEa5KPul said:


> You're welcome, I've never denied it. I wholeheartedly support this policy and have done so ever since I've become aware of it. Some cultures are superior to others, and the superior will replace the inferior; it's as simple as that. If you have any human feeling for the Uighurs, pray that this "cultural genocide" succeeds for their sake, because if it doesn't then China will take the "cultural" out.




You have helped as it would have opened the eyes of those Chinese fanboys who think this is not happening



ZeEa5KPul said:


> China will remake the Islam within its borders. Besides, Islam is the West's best friend and will soon be China's as well. Think about it, a billion and a half people share a common history and language. If they ever got their act together they'd have some real weight in the world. Thankfully, Islam is the most retrograde ideology ever devised - its adherents will never rise out of the gutter they're in.



Please do not get arrogant as China was nowhere 20 years ago.

Forget the Arabs as they are hopeless but a lot of Muslim countries like Turkey, Iran, Indonesia, Malaysia and even BD are starting to make real progress economically and technologically. It will take another decade before the countries have the economic and technological strength but come it will.

Already a core group of a Muslim alliance is coming up with Turkey, Iran, Indonesia, Malaysia with Pakistan and BD also invited. Pakistan and BD are only beholden to the Gulf Arabs and so they cannot join but once they are no longer needed then they will jump in to join this group.

China is already looked on with grave suspicion by Muslims as regards Rohingya and Uighur and so keep carrying on to make sure you stay isolated and friendless in this world of alliances. Without friends you will never reach a fraction of your full economic potential.

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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> Please do not get arrogant as China was nowhere 20 years ago.


That just makes my point. China's rise has been the greatest economic transformation in human history. One of many reasons for this is that China is free of the Abrahamic filth. You were nowhere 20 years ago, and you'll be nowhere 20, 200, and 2000 years from now.



UKBengali said:


> It will take another decade before the countries have the economic and technological strength but come it will.


Take a thousand years, you'll still be where you are now. One of the Chinese "fanboys" already posted the horrific videos from Dhaka, I needn't comment further.



UKBengali said:


> Without friends you will never reach a fraction of your full economic potential.


How many friends do you Muslims have?

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## UKBengali

ZeEa5KPul said:


> That just makes my point. China's rise has been the greatest economic transformation in human history. One of many reasons for this is that China is free of the Abrahamic filth. You were nowhere 20 years ago, and you'll be nowhere 20, 200, and 2000 years from now.



Yeah and that is why even Pakistan rejected Chinese attack helicopter and brought Turkish instead.
BD has also placed an order for 18 Turkish T-300B MLRS units with range of 120km and considering the 300km range T-300A.

In 10 years Turkey will be able to supply the Muslim world with virtually all civilian and military tech. China will be out of business in those two areas for lots of Muslim countries.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> Take a thousand years, you'll still be where you are now. One of the Chinese "fanboys" already posted the horrific videos from Dhaka, I needn't comment further.




BD is growing 8% a year and expected to stay at least 7% till 2030. Do the math at how quickly BD is progressing just like China managed from 2000 till now.

Dhaka is having massive infrastructure investments and slums are being torn down and replaced with flats at breakneck speeds.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> How many friends do you Muslims have?



Many more than China it seems.

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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> Yeah and that is why even Pakistan rejected Chinese attack helicopter and brought Turkish instead.
> BD has also placed an order for 18 Turkish T-300B MLRS units with range of 120km and considering the 300km range T-300A.


Turkish, is it? No, Pakistan bought NATO helicopters through the backdoor. A Turk couldn't rub two sticks together to make fire without a European sitting beside him showing him how. Now that would-be caliph Erdogan sh*t all over his relationship with Europe, those ties with NATO are looking real questionable. He already got his country booted from the F-35 program (no backdoor stealth technology for your fantasy neo-Ottoman caliphate ) and I'm sure further "triumphs" await.

As for Chinese technology, I do not exaggerate when I say it makes leaps and breakthroughs by the month. I see you at the Chinese defence section occasionally, so you know exactly what I'm talking about. The helicopters Pakistan evaluated were one thing, these
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...hinas-z-10me-showcased-increased-capabilities
are quite another.

Oh, and guess who Pakistan is going to cooperate with on its project Azm stealth fighter. Turkey? No, Turkey has no stealth fighters. But guess who does...




If your fantasy new Organization of Islamic Countries ever gets off the ground, guess who's going to be China's man on the inside.



UKBengali said:


> In 10 years Turkey will be able to supply the Muslim world with virtually all civilian and military tech. China will be out of business in those two areas for lots of Muslim countries.


In 10 years Turkey's going to be booted out of NATO and your conduit to Western technology is going to be cut off. Let's see if Turkey still has electricity then.



UKBengali said:


> Many more than China it seems.


Let me answer that question for you: 0. None whatsoever. Pakistan - if it leaves this ummah nonsense behind and embraces nationalism - will have a strong and sure friend in China. Take a lesson from it.

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## Nike

Just be a realist, one doesnt need clarification when you got bigger fist and a thick wallet


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## UKBengali

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Turkish, is it? No, Pakistan bought NATO helicopters through the backdoor. A Turk couldn't rub two sticks together to make fire without a European sitting beside him showing him how. Now that would-be caliph Erdogan sh*t all over his relationship with Europe, those ties with NATO are looking real questionable. He already got his country booted from the F-35 program (no backdoor stealth technology for your fantasy neo-Ottoman caliphate ) and I'm sure further "triumphs" await.




Nope it is all Turkish apart from the US engine - just based on Italian design though.

Uses Turkish radar, avionics and missiles.
Turkey can export to anyone apart from US and Italy and so that proves that the tech is Turkish

Guess what? Philippines is also going to take 10 helicopters for a total of 40 exported.
BD was looking to get Turkish T-129 but decided to go for US AH-64E.
Chinese Z-10 has exported precisely zero so far






ZeEa5KPul said:


> Oh, and guess who Pakistan is going to cooperate with on its project Azm stealth fighter. Turkey? No, Turkey has no stealth fighters. But guess who does...




Turkey is building a 5th gen aircraft and it will be able to make everything apart from the engine for it. It is working with UK on this project.

Your J-20 uses a 4th generation WS-10B engine and so talk when it has WS-15 installed as it is not true 5th gen jet yet



ZeEa5KPul said:


> In 10 years Turkey's going to be booted out of NATO and your conduit to Western technology is going to be cut off. Let's see if Turkey still has electricity then.



Turkey has learnt enough from the West and is making their own tech now.

They have a GDP per capita at PPP of 30,000 US dollars, far more than the 20,000 US dollars of China and so they are well developed with population of 80 million. They also are expected to grow 3-4% a year average and so should catch up with Western Europe by around 2030. You think a country of near 100 million people by 2030 with GDP per capita on the level of Western Europe is not going to be fully developed?

Of course Turkey will have a massive market for it's defence products in the Muslim world and they will sell billions of US dollars per year in the 2020s just to other Muslims. This large export market will help Turkey develop cutting-edge weapons systems for the use of all Muslim countries.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> Let me answer that question for you: 0. None whatsoever. Pakistan - if it leaves this ummah nonsense behind and embraces nationalism - will have a strong and sure friend in China. Take a lesson from it.




In 10 years time, apart from the Arabs pretty much most of the Muslim world will be working as a common bloc for Muslim interests. China will be out there alone and even Pakistan will be keeping it's distance from you as it's population is Muslim and anti-atheist.


Pakistanis are far more hardcore Muslims than BD'shis FYI.

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## Beast

Indos said:


> That is not the first attempt
> 
> *China responds to Indonesia’s question about alleged abuse of Xinjiang’s Muslims*
> 
> Dian Septiari
> The Jakarta Post
> Bandung / Thu, December 20, 2018 / 11:35 am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Men dance in front of the Id Kah Mosque after morning prayers on June 26, 2017 during Idul Fitri in the old town of Kashgar in China's Xinjiang Uighur autonomous region. (Agence France -Presse/Johannes Esielle)
> 
> China has responded to Indonesia’s question about alleged human rights abuse against Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang, saying that Beijing guaranteed the religious freedom of all of its citizens, including the Uighurs.
> 
> A Chinese Embassy spokesman in Jakarta said in a statement on Thursday that “China is a country with multiple ethnic groups and religions".
> 
> “As prescribed in the Constitution, all Chinese citizens enjoy the freedom of religious belief,” the statement said.
> 
> The statement said that the Chinese government was facing the threat of religious extremism in Xinjiang, which is home to about 14 million Muslims. Some Xinjiang residents, it said, had struggled to find jobs because of their poor command of the nation’s official language and lack of skills.
> 
> “This has made them vulnerable to the instigation and coercion of terrorism and extremism,” it said.
> 
> “In light of the situation, Xinjiang has established professional vocational training institutions as the platform, providing courses on China’s common language, legal knowledge, vocational skills, along with de-radicalization education for citizens influenced by extremist ideas.”
> 
> Previously, the Foreign Ministry said it had summoned Chinese Ambassador to Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday to convey the concerns of Indonesian Muslims about the plight of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang.
> 
> “The Foreign Ministry stressed that in accordance with the universal declaration of human rights, religious freedom and belief are human rights and it is the responsibility of all countries to respect it,” ministry spokesperson Arrmanatha Nasir told reporters on the sidelines of the Diplofest event on Wednesday evening.
> 
> He said Xiao Qian conveyed China’s commitment to the protection of human rights. In addition, the ambassador said it was very important for the Indonesian public to know the condition of the Uighurs in Xinjiang, an autonomous region.
> 
> “Even though it is a domestic issue, the Foreign Ministry noted the embassy’s intention to expand communication with various civil society groups in order to convey information about the condition of the Uighur community.”
> 
> The summons of the Chinese ambassador came shortly after Indonesian Islamic groups demanded an explanation on the situation in Xinjiang.
> 
> Western countries have accused China of persecuting Uighurs through its “re-education centers”, which Beijing insisted were actually vocational and training centers that combat religious extremism.
> 
> The situation in Xinjiang was highlighted during China’s third United Nations Human Rights Council’s universal periodic review last month.
> 
> Human Rights Watch says Uighur people in particular are subject to intense surveillance and are made to give DNA and biometric samples.
> 
> Muhammadiyah chairman Haedar Nashir said if the reports were true, then China had violated universal human rights and his organization was ready to mobilize humanitarian and material support for peace in Xinjiang, especially for the Uighur community.
> 
> ”The Chinese government’s inaction is feared to hurt diplomatic relations between Indonesia and China, and the good relations our people have had for centuries,” Haedar said as quoted by Antara on Wednesday.
> 
> Social media messages calling on Indonesians to take to the streets to defend Uighurs have been circulating online in the last few days.
> 
> On Monday, the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) advisory council leader and former chairman of Muhammadiyah, Din Syamsuddin, said the alleged crackdown was an outright violation of basic human rights and demanded that the Indonesian government take firm action to advocate for the Uighur people.
> 
> Responding to the MUI’s call, Vice President Jusuf Kalla said Indonesia would not interfere in China’s handling of Uighur Muslims.
> 
> “Of course we reject or [want to] prevent any human rights violations. However, we don’t want to intervene in the domestic affairs of another country,” Kalla told journalists on Monday.
> 
> The Chinese Embassy’s spokesman said that, “China and Indonesia have always supported each other on issues concerning respective major interests.
> 
> “I believe after knowing the real situation in Xinjiang, our Indonesian friends would better understand and support the Chinese government's efforts to combat terrorism and extremism and to safeguard stability and security in Xinjiang,” he said.
> 
> https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...about-alleged-abuse-of-xinjiangs-muslims.html


May I know what issue? Indonesian raise an issue and China give a satisfactory answer. So happy ending for everybody...

Remember Irian Jaya riot recently? I hope you have not forgotten it so soon what cause it to happened...

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/08/23/indonesian-officers-racist-slurs-trigger-riots-papua

Indigenous Papuans angered by decades of racism rallied in 30 cities across Indonesia, including Jakarta, this week, after video circulated of Indonesian militias racially abusing Papuan students. Rioting Papuans burned down a local parliament building in Manokwari and a prison in Sorong, West Papua province, on Monday, as video of the events spread. On Thursday the government shut down the internet in Papua.

The videos show Indonesian police detaining 43 Papuan students in Surabaya, Java Island, last Saturday, for allegedly failing to raise the Indonesian flag to celebrate Independence Day. Dozens of militia members and military officers surrounded the student dormitory, calling them “monkeys,” and police stormed the dorm, using teargas to arrest the students. Militia used similar racial slurs and harassment in Malang and Semarang in Java.

Papuan students have repeatedly been targets of intimidation by Islamist and nationalist groups as international advocacy for Papuan independence has escalated since the formation of the United Liberation Movement for West Papua in 2014.

Papuans have protested against discrimination and marginalization, including demographic change as a result of five decades of government-sponsored transmigration of Indonesian settlers to the provinces of Papua and West Papua.

While police released the students that night, the riots prompted Indonesian security forces to deploy hundreds of new troops into West Papua and Papua. In Fakfak, two Papuan men were critically wounded when Indonesian militias allegedly attacked their rally. On Thursday, Indonesia’s Ministry of Telecommunication “temporarily” shut down the internet “to accelerate government efforts to restore order.”

The Indonesian government has a responsibility to ensure security in West Papua and Papua and to respect the human rights of everyone, including protesters. President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo, who plans to visit Papua, should condemn racist remarks and actions, promote tolerance, and direct the police to impartially investigate abusive militias and officers.

Indonesian authorities should immediately restore access to the internet, which is vital for emergency communications and basic information in times of crisis. Papua is already isolated, with the government preventing foreign journalists from reporting freely. Officials should stop limiting information and allow people to peacefully express their views.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Look what trigger the riot. Shall China raise an inquiry to Indonesian for the all well being of locals there?

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## maximuswarrior

Indonesia also ignores Kashmir and wants good relations with India.

We know how politics works. It is easy to raise slogans.

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## Beast

UKBengali said:


> BD has always paid it's loans back and will do so to China as well.
> It has debt to GDP ratio less than 30% of GDP - far lower than most countries.
> 
> Why do you do business with Japan after what they did to you in WW2?
> No apology either last time I heard.


They surrender defeat to China after defeat of WWII and we accepted. So what is the issue? 






While you think there is so much grievances against China based on believe we mistreat Muslim. Why continue business?

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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> Nope it is all Turkish apart from the US engine - just based on Italian design though.


In other words, the US can turn these "Turkish" helicopters into oversized paperweights if it restricts Turkey's access to its engines. Good luck with that. 
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...-helicopter-deal-between-turkey-and-pakistan/

Didn't take long, did it?



UKBengali said:


> BD was looking to get Turkish T-129 but decided to go for US AH-64E.


*Tsk, tsk*, you had the chance to buy Muslim helicopters and you bought them from _kuffar_ instead?



UKBengali said:


> Guess what? Philippines is also going to take 10 helicopters for a total of 40 exported.


Wow, the Philippines is all grown up and buying its own helicopters now. I'm so proud of them, they were on the dole just a moment ago
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/dipl...tes-small-boats-and-rpg-launchers-philippines
https://www.rappler.com/nation/1741...-guns-ammunition-philippines-marawi-terrorism
If China were as petty as I am, it would probably have told the Philippines to ditch those third-rate Turkish American helicopters and buy some serious monsters like the Z-10ME. What a beast of a chopper that is, 1200kW engines - a medium helicopter with engines almost as strong as early AH-64 heavy choppers. *Beastmode*!



UKBengali said:


> Turkey is building a 5th gen aircraft and it will be able to make everything apart from the engine for it. It is working with UK on this project.


So instead of switching it off directly, the US can switch it off by remote control. Yeah, you really solved your problems there. 



UKBengali said:


> Your J-20 uses a 4th generation WS-10B engine and so talk when it has WS-15 installed as it is not true 5th gen jet yet


You have nothing. More accurately, the Turks you want to rule over you have nothing. What happened to the white worship? Feeling a little bored of your current master and looking for a little excitement? A little Turkish delight? 

You have no fighter, you have no stealth technology, you have no engine and you don't ever intend to have an engine. And somehow you can manage the nerve to badmouth a Chinese stealth fighter in service. Don't worry about the WS-15, it's in advanced testing now and will be in service *long* before your Turkish fantasies even get a millimetre off the ground.



UKBengali said:


> Of course Turkey will have a massive market for it's defence products in the Muslim world and they will sell billions of US dollars per year in the 2020s just to other Muslims.


China's already doing that now. China's cornered the Middle Eastern drone market, and the UAE (the only serious Arab military) is using them on the reg to support Khalifa Haftar in Libya by blasting Turkey's terrorist b*tch-boys to kingdom come. The US is so mad about this it leaned on Jordan (failed Muslim state #4525) to ditch its Chinese drones - how underhanded.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/pen...l-out-of-armed-drones-to-americas-allies.html

But the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The UAE keeps buying the drones, and Saudi Arabia is opening a factory to make them
http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0327/c90000-9195600.html
That sounds like a satisfied customer. Arabs _were _hopeless, but now that China's on the scene hope has come to the hopeless.



Nike said:


> Just be a realist, one doesnt need clarification when you got bigger fist and a thick wallet


Exactly so. That's what it means to be a winner in life - a big fist and a thick wallet. I couldn't have put it better, thank you for that.

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## Kaniska

ZeEa5KPul said:


> That just makes my point. China's rise has been the greatest economic transformation in human history. One of many reasons for this is that China is free of the Abrahamic filth. You were nowhere 20 years ago, and you'll be nowhere 20, 200, and 2000 years from now.
> 
> 
> Take a thousand years, you'll still be where you are now. One of the Chinese "fanboys" already posted the horrific videos from Dhaka, I needn't comment further.
> 
> 
> How many friends do you Muslims have?



Your arrogance is only tolerated in this forum because you are Chines.

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## Beast

Kaniska said:


> Your arrogance is only tolerated in this forum because you are Chines.


LOL.. Indian try talking righteous and muslim to Chinese. How ironic.

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## Kaniska

Beast said:


> LOL.. Indian try talking righteous and muslim to Chinese. How ironic.



Yeh, it is very ironic the way China and relationship of muslim world works.
Pakistan and BD are the best buddies for you in PDF that they do not give any chance to any one counter you guys propaganda in PDF. How ironic is that same Chines poster is blasting about their religion and no one from BD and Pakistan poster even dare to counter you. For me , this is so ironic to see it.


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## Beast

ZeEa5KPul said:


> In other words, the US can turn these "Turkish" helicopters into oversized paperweights if it restricts Turkey's access to its engines. Good luck with that.
> https://www.defensenews.com/global/...-helicopter-deal-between-turkey-and-pakistan/
> 
> Didn't take long, did it?
> 
> 
> *Tsk, tsk*, you had the chance to buy Muslim helicopters and you bought them from _kuffar_ instead?
> 
> 
> Wow, the Philippines is all grown up and buying its own helicopters now. I'm so proud of them, they were on the dole just a moment ago
> https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/dipl...tes-small-boats-and-rpg-launchers-philippines
> https://www.rappler.com/nation/1741...-guns-ammunition-philippines-marawi-terrorism
> If China were as petty as I am, it would probably have told the Philippines to ditch those third-rate Turkish American helicopters and buy some serious monsters like the Z-10ME. What a beast of a chopper that is, 1200kW engines - a medium helicopter with engines almost as strong as early AH-64 heavy choppers. *Beastmode*!
> 
> 
> So instead of switching it off directly, the US can switch it off by remote control. Yeah, you really solved your problems there.
> 
> 
> You have nothing. More accurately, the Turks you want to rule over you have nothing. What happened to the white worship? Feeling a little bored of your current master and looking for a little excitement? A little Turkish delight?
> 
> You have no fighter, you have no stealth technology, you have no engine and you don't ever intend to have an engine. And somehow you can manage the nerve to badmouth a Chinese stealth fighter in service. Don't worry about the WS-15, it's in advanced testing now and will be in service *long* before your Turkish fantasies even get a millimetre off the ground.
> 
> 
> China's already doing that now. China's cornered the Middle Eastern drone market, and the UAE (the only serious Arab military) is using them on the reg to support Khalifa Haftar in Libya by blasting Turkey's terrorist b*tch-boys to kingdom come. The US is so mad about this it leaned on Jordan (failed Muslim state #4525) to ditch its Chinese drones - how underhanded.
> https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/pen...l-out-of-armed-drones-to-americas-allies.html
> 
> But the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The UAE keeps buying the drones, and Saudi Arabia is opening a factory to make them
> http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0327/c90000-9195600.html
> That sounds like a satisfied customer. Arabs _were _hopeless, but now that China's on the scene hope has come to the hopeless.
> 
> 
> Exactly so. That's what it means to be a winner in life - a big fist and a thick wallet. I couldn't have put it better, thank you for that.


You raise an interesting topic.. Bangladesh recently buys Chinese VT-5 tank instead of Turkish Kaplan.

https://www.defseca.com/procurements/bangladesh-army-becomes-launch-customer-for-vt5-light-tank/

Chinese VT-5 use domestic engine vs Kaplan using American caterpillar engine. I am sure Bangladesh is concern about Turkish tank is not sanction proof.

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## dBSPL

Kaniska said:


> Your arrogance is only tolerated in this forum because you are Chines.


I'm so pleased with what the Chinese team is trying here. They prove lots of things about their arrogance (the most fun part here) discourse and psychology of oppression that tries to teach something with all its ignorance which are we can't convince Pakistanis if we try for months.

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## 925boy

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Indonesia: China, please clarify what you're doing in Xinjiang.
> China: F*ck off.
> Indonesia: Thank you for the clarification.


Pakistan: China, please dont clarify what you're doing in Xinjiang
China: f*ck off.
Pakistan: Thank you for clarification


Petrichor said:


> My respect for Indonesia grows day by day.Hope to see it claim a leadership position of the Muslim world in the future.


I agree. Indonesia has shown it isnt AS afraid of China as other countries.

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## Kaniska

925boy said:


> Pakistan: China, please dont clarify what you're doing in Xinjiang
> China: f*ck off.
> Pakistan: Thank you for clarification
> 
> I agree. Indonesia has shown it isnt AS afraid of China as other countries.



China is not West. It is easier to work with West because, they beleive in democratic set up. China and their rise has been routed througn different means. So they beleive, they do not owe any one for their rise. That makes them feel superior to any one they interact or they have relation.
If i am not wrong, Indonesia has a foreign policy doctine where they do not intervene in any one's internal affair. That is the reason for which they hardly comment on anything that does not impact them directly.

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## UKBengali

Beast said:


> You raise an interesting topic.. Bangladesh recently buys Chinese VT-5 tank instead of Turkish Kaplan.
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/procurements/bangladesh-army-becomes-launch-customer-for-vt5-light-tank/
> 
> Chinese VT-5 use domestic engine vs Kaplan using American caterpillar engine. I am sure Bangladesh is concern about Turkish tank is not sanction proof.



@ZeEa5KPul 

Turkey is developing indigenous engines for all but the 5th gen fighter and so US sanctions will be gone soon.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Kaniska said:


> Your arrogance is only tolerated in this forum because you are Chines.


At the end of the day, Pakistanis aren't stupid. They know how their bread is buttered. They can shout their slogans about the ummah and #BoycottChina and all the rest of the BS, but they know full well that without China they're just going to be a part of Akhand Bharat. They can feel however they want to feel about China, they *know* that without it their future is a very bleak one indeed.



Kaniska said:


> Yeh, it is very ironic the way China and relationship of muslim world works.


Jealous? Don't you wish you had this kind of power? Yeah, you're jealous. Don't feel to bad, superpower 2020 2030 after all, right? Jai Hind.



Beast said:


> You raise an interesting topic.. Bangladesh recently buys Chinese VT-5 tank instead of Turkish Kaplan.
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/procurements/bangladesh-army-becomes-launch-customer-for-vt5-light-tank/
> 
> Chinese VT-5 use domestic engine vs Kaplan using American caterpillar engine. I am sure Bangladesh is concern about Turkish tank is not sanction proof.


Oh, ho, ho! @UKBengali buddy, are you seeing this? You not only passed up Muslim helicopters for Crusader ones - at least those were _′Ahl al-Kitāb_ - you went and bought tanks from godless Communists! You're going to need some strong _tawbah_ for that, friend.

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## Beast

925boy said:


> I agree. Indonesia has shown it isnt AS afraid of China as other countries.



Folly moments. What Indonesia did please nobody besides harming themselves only. Indonesian is a secular country. I believe what Indonesia did is mere symbolic. Question raise, answer given. Satisfy with answer and no further inquiry...

Hope Indonesia shall settle their own domestic problem first.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/10/07/indonesia-investigate-riot-deaths-papua

(Jakarta) – Indonesian authorities should independently investigate recent riots in Wamena, Papua that resulted in 33 deaths, Human Rights Watch said today. Since September 29, 2019, at least 8,000 indigenous Papuan and other Indonesians have been displaced from their homes in Papua.

The National Commission on Human Rights (Komnas Ham) should lead an investigation into the deaths and review the government’s policing policy. The Indonesian government should also immediately allow the United Nations human rights office unfettered access to Papua and West Papua provinces to investigate the situation.

“At least 33 people died during riots in Wamena in unclear circumstances,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “An independent investigation is needed to examine the role of the security forces and to prosecute anyone responsible for wrongdoing.”

Human Rights Watch spoke with two well-informed government officials and three indigenous Papuan men who had been detained briefly by the Wamena police.

In August, Papuans took part in protests across at least 30 cities in Indonesia that were preceded by an attack by Indonesian militants on a West Papuan student dorm in Surabaya on August 17.

The protests turned to pro-independence rallies, some of which became deadly. At least 10 men, including an Indonesian soldier, were killed in August in Deiyai and Jayapura in Papua.

In Jayapura, Indonesian settlers, mostly ethnic Makassar, set up checkpoints and attacked indigenous Papuans with clubs and machetes. On September 1, a group of settlers attacked a student dorm in Jayapura, most of whose residents were from Wamena, killing one student and seriously wounding two others. The incident raised tensions between the two different racial groups.

On September 18, a new teacher allegedly made racist taunts at Papuan students at a public high school in Wamena. 

On September 23, Wamena students protesting outside the Jayawijaya regent office were joined by a larger crowd that burned the office. Violence escalated. Many shops, mostly owned by Indonesians from other islands, burned down. Many of those killed were found trapped inside their burned houses. The burning and some killings continued on September 24.

The government shut down the internet from September 23 to 29 in the vicinity of Wamena. The police listed the names and origins of the 33 people who died. They included 8 Papuans, including 2 children, and 25 people from elsewhere in Indonesia, including 3 children.

On September 27, Indonesia’s National Police chief replaced the Papua police chief, Rudolf Alberth Rodja, a non-Papuan, with Paulus Waterpauw, an ethnic Papuan who had been the Papua police chief from 2015 to 2017.

In Wamena, the main city in the area, the riots caused thousands of Papuan and non-Papuan residents to flee the city amid the deterioration of security and rumors of an increased Indonesian military deployment, ostensibly to prevent further violence.

More than 5,000 residents, both Papuans and non-Papuans, have sought safety in several refuge points in Jayawijaya regency, including the police station and two military posts. Some are staying in churches. An Air Force officer said 2,000 evacuees had reported to the military to leave Wamena on a Hercules transport plane.

Last December, Papuan militants killed 17 Indonesian workers in Nduga, near Wamena. It prompted the Indonesian military and police to initiate a security operation, displacing thousands of indigenous Papuans. Thousands of them are still seeking refuge in Wamena and Jayapura.

News about the recent deaths of non-Papuans in Wamena has angered many Muslims in Sumatra, Sulawesi, and Java. The Islamic Defenders Front, one of the largest Muslim militias in Java, had started to call on Muslims for “jihad” against predominantly Christian Papuans in the two provinces.

Human Rights Watch has long documented human rights abuses in Papua’s central highlands, where the military and police have frequently engaged in deadly confrontations with armed groups.

Indonesian security forces have often committed abuses against the Papuan population, including arbitrary detention and torture. A lack of internal accountability within the security forces and a poorly functioning justice system mean that impunity for rights violators is the norm in Papua. The failure to appropriately punish serious abuses by Indonesian security forces has fueled resentment among Papuans.

The Indonesian security forces should exercise care when operating in Wamena, directing all security personnel to treat residents in accordance with international standards. They should transparently investigate and hold accountable anyone implicated in a criminal offense. Both the military and the police should allow journalists to operate independently in the area. The government should lift the decades-long official restriction on foreign media access to Papua.

“The situation in Wamena is tense, yet it’s difficult to verify the circumstances because no journalists can independently go into the area to interview witnesses,” Adams said. “Having independent monitors on the ground will help deter abuses by both the militants and security forces, which would benefit all Indonesians.”

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What Indonesia did against China, will Australia, US and UK come and thank you? Will just these countries continue to meddle in West Papua issue? Yes, they will...

Indonesia raising the issue against China will just equally raise the profile of its own domestic problem too. You cannot use double standard to judge something. You loses credibility.

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## Kaniska

UKBengali said:


> @ZeEk5KPul
> 
> Turkey is developing indigenous engines for all but the 5th gen fighter and so US sanctions will be gone soon.



Turkey is a smart nation. They use the narrative based on their benefits. They use secularism to befriend of Nato and West, and Islamist card to club all the Muslim nations who are looking for leaders. It is not the fault of Turkey that they are smart rather it is the mistake of nations who do not calibrate their foreign strategy based on realism.

See the hypocrisy of BD and Pakistan. In the time of crisis for Pakistan, there are only 3 people who stood up with IK. One is Gulf nation, IMF and China. Where was Turkey at that crucial juncture for Pakistan? And again, Turkey is quite a rich country too. They could have easily afforded to invest and provide loans with less restricted terms to Pakistan. Who stopped them to provide a helping hand to Pakistan?

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## Beast

UKBengali said:


> @ZeEa5KPul
> 
> Turkey is developing indigenous engines for all but the 5th gen fighter and so US sanctions will be gone soon.


Ya right! 2050, the engine development will be complete and ready for operation..

I heard Somalia is also talking about develop high end military turbofan and I know talk is cheap.

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## UKBengali

Beast said:


> Ya right! 2050, the engine development will be complete and ready for operation..
> 
> I heard Somalia is also talking about develop high end military turbofan and I know talk is cheap.



Not 5th gen fighter engine but for tanks and helicopters by around 2025.


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## Kaniska

ZeEa5KPul said:


> *At the end of the day, Pakistanis aren't stupid. They know how their bread is buttered. They can shout their slogans about the ummah and #BoycottChina and all the rest of the BS, but they know full well that without China they're just going to be a part of Akhand Bharat. They can feel however they want to feel about China, they know that without it their future is a very bleak one indeed.*
> 
> 
> Jealous? Don't you wish you had this kind of power? Yeah, you're jealous. Don't feel to bad, superpower 2020 2030 after all, right? Jai Hind.
> 
> 
> Oh, ho, ho! @UKBengali buddy, are you seeing this? You not only passed up Muslim helicopters for Crusader ones - at least those were _′Ahl al-Kitāb_ - you went and bought tanks from godless Communists! You're going to need some strong _tawbah_ for that, friend.



@Starlord @Indus Pakistan ....At least, we, as an enemy fairs better in this respect while discussing about your issue.s

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## 925boy

Beast said:


> Folly moments. What Indonesia did please nobody besides harming themselves only. Indonesian is a secular country. I believe what Indonesia did is mere symbolic. Question raise, answer given. Satisfy with answer and no further inquiry...
> 
> Hope Indonesia shall settle their own domestic problem first.
> 
> https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/10/07/indonesia-investigate-riot-deaths-papua
> 
> (Jakarta) – Indonesian authorities should independently investigate recent riots in Wamena, Papua that resulted in 33 deaths, Human Rights Watch said today. Since September 29, 2019, at least 8,000 indigenous Papuan and other Indonesians have been displaced from their homes in Papua.
> 
> The National Commission on Human Rights (Komnas Ham) should lead an investigation into the deaths and review the government’s policing policy. The Indonesian government should also immediately allow the United Nations human rights office unfettered access to Papua and West Papua provinces to investigate the situation.
> 
> “At least 33 people died during riots in Wamena in unclear circumstances,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “An independent investigation is needed to examine the role of the security forces and to prosecute anyone responsible for wrongdoing.”
> 
> Human Rights Watch spoke with two well-informed government officials and three indigenous Papuan men who had been detained briefly by the Wamena police.
> 
> In August, Papuans took part in protests across at least 30 cities in Indonesia that were preceded by an attack by Indonesian militants on a West Papuan student dorm in Surabaya on August 17.
> 
> The protests turned to pro-independence rallies, some of which became deadly. At least 10 men, including an Indonesian soldier, were killed in August in Deiyai and Jayapura in Papua.
> 
> In Jayapura, Indonesian settlers, mostly ethnic Makassar, set up checkpoints and attacked indigenous Papuans with clubs and machetes. On September 1, a group of settlers attacked a student dorm in Jayapura, most of whose residents were from Wamena, killing one student and seriously wounding two others. The incident raised tensions between the two different racial groups.
> 
> On September 18, a new teacher allegedly made racist taunts at Papuan students at a public high school in Wamena.
> 
> On September 23, Wamena students protesting outside the Jayawijaya regent office were joined by a larger crowd that burned the office. Violence escalated. Many shops, mostly owned by Indonesians from other islands, burned down. Many of those killed were found trapped inside their burned houses. The burning and some killings continued on September 24.
> 
> The government shut down the internet from September 23 to 29 in the vicinity of Wamena. The police listed the names and origins of the 33 people who died. They included 8 Papuans, including 2 children, and 25 people from elsewhere in Indonesia, including 3 children.
> 
> On September 27, Indonesia’s National Police chief replaced the Papua police chief, Rudolf Alberth Rodja, a non-Papuan, with Paulus Waterpauw, an ethnic Papuan who had been the Papua police chief from 2015 to 2017.
> 
> In Wamena, the main city in the area, the riots caused thousands of Papuan and non-Papuan residents to flee the city amid the deterioration of security and rumors of an increased Indonesian military deployment, ostensibly to prevent further violence.
> 
> More than 5,000 residents, both Papuans and non-Papuans, have sought safety in several refuge points in Jayawijaya regency, including the police station and two military posts. Some are staying in churches. An Air Force officer said 2,000 evacuees had reported to the military to leave Wamena on a Hercules transport plane.
> 
> Last December, Papuan militants killed 17 Indonesian workers in Nduga, near Wamena. It prompted the Indonesian military and police to initiate a security operation, displacing thousands of indigenous Papuans. Thousands of them are still seeking refuge in Wamena and Jayapura.
> 
> News about the recent deaths of non-Papuans in Wamena has angered many Muslims in Sumatra, Sulawesi, and Java. The Islamic Defenders Front, one of the largest Muslim militias in Java, had started to call on Muslims for “jihad” against predominantly Christian Papuans in the two provinces.
> 
> Human Rights Watch has long documented human rights abuses in Papua’s central highlands, where the military and police have frequently engaged in deadly confrontations with armed groups.
> 
> Indonesian security forces have often committed abuses against the Papuan population, including arbitrary detention and torture. A lack of internal accountability within the security forces and a poorly functioning justice system mean that impunity for rights violators is the norm in Papua. The failure to appropriately punish serious abuses by Indonesian security forces has fueled resentment among Papuans.
> 
> The Indonesian security forces should exercise care when operating in Wamena, directing all security personnel to treat residents in accordance with international standards. They should transparently investigate and hold accountable anyone implicated in a criminal offense. Both the military and the police should allow journalists to operate independently in the area. The government should lift the decades-long official restriction on foreign media access to Papua.
> 
> “The situation in Wamena is tense, yet it’s difficult to verify the circumstances because no journalists can independently go into the area to interview witnesses,” Adams said. “Having independent monitors on the ground will help deter abuses by both the militants and security forces, which would benefit all Indonesians.”
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> What Indonesia did against China, will Australia, US and UK come and thank you? Will just these countries continue to meddle in West Papua issue? Yes, they will...
> 
> Indonesia raising the issue against China will just equally raise the profile of its own domestic problem too. You cannot use double standard to judge something. You loses credibility.


talking about Indonesia's own problems is a fallacy to distract from CHina's problems. AS of now, we are focused on the Uighurs your country is abusing, so pls dont use "2 wrongs make a right" logic because its faulty. You didnt disagree with my point that Indonesia isnt as afraid of China, so i think u agree with me on that. cheers.


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## Beast

UKBengali said:


> Not 5th gen fighter engine but for tanks and helicopters by around 2025.


You are naive to think they can meet that deadline. As I say talk is cheap. From Turkiish tanks to warship. Most of the component are sourced and now we are talking about high end engine which takes USD20 billion investment, a country level of industrial level with highest level of engineering and metallurgy plus a whole level of testing facilities and you naively believe Turkey can meet the deadline? Besides produced small cruise missile engine. Have they even a decent engine produced of 800kw for helo ever commercialize?



925boy said:


> talking about Indonesia's own problems is a fallacy to distract from CHina's problems. AS of now, we are focused on the Uighurs your country is abusing, so pls dont use "2 wrongs make a right" logic because its faulty. You didnt disagree with my point that Indonesia isnt as afraid of China, so i think u agree with me on that. cheers.


Tell me, how can a rapist try tell others about protecting womans right and non-violent?

Care to share? What makes the rapist qualify to educate on others?
Indonesian action just makes them looks like hypocrite. Dont you think so?

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## UKBengali

Beast said:


> You are naive to think they can meet that deadline. As I say talk is cheap. From Turkiish tanks to warship. Most of the component are sourced and now we are talking about high end engine which takes USD20 billion investment, a country level of industrial level with highest level of engineering and metallurgy plus a whole level of testing facilities and you naively believe Turkey can meet the deadline? Besides produced small cruise missile engine. Have they even a decent engine produced of 800kw for helo ever commercialize?



Turkey is a developed country.

They can make those engines within 5 years.

Only 5th gen Turbofan is out of their reach for now.

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## Beast

UKBengali said:


> Turkey is a developed country.
> 
> They can make those engines within 5 years.
> 
> Only 5th gen Turbofan is out of their reach for now.



Turkey is only a middle class income country. No where near developed. You have no evidence to back you claim and non are you able to answer of my previous inquiry. Prove it rather than just say they can and you think you can get away with it?

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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> Turkey is a developed country.
> 
> They can make those engines within 5 years.
> 
> Only 5th gen Turbofan is out of their reach for now.


Since you're so enamoured with Turkey and you think they're so developed and advanced and all that stuff, you should be able to answer this simple question: how many nanometers? How small can Turkey make its chips with its indigenous technology? I'll give you the answer for China: 14nm in volume production, 12nm in risk production. It can design chips smaller than that, but that's what it can make for itself. How many nanometers for Turkey?

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## UKBengali

Beast said:


> Turkey is only a middle class income country. No where near developed. You have no evidence to back you claim and non are you able to answer of my previous inquiry. Prove it rather than just say they can and you think you can get away with it?



30'000 US dollar per capita PPP is developed.
A developed country of 80 million people has the industrial technology to make tank and helicopter engines.
Hey even Japan has fifth gen fighter prototype engine now ready and they came from just 50kn engine.


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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> They can make those engines within 5 years.


"Turkey within 5 years" is the new "superpower 2020"

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## UKBengali

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Since you're so enamoured with Turkey and you think they're so developed and advanced and all that stuff, you should be able to answer this simple question: how many nanometers? How small can Turkey make its chips with its indigenous technology? I'll give you the answer for China: 14nm in volume production, 12nm in risk production. It can design chips smaller than that, but that's what it can make for itself. How many nanometers for Turkey?



Turkey has not made the investments in microprocessors that it had in the defence tech areas.
It will all come in due course.

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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> Turkey has not made the investments in microprocessors that it had in the defence tech areas.


So what's it making all those "indigenous" radars and military electronics with? 
Whose chips?
If I bothered to go and look, am I going to find America like with the engines? 



UKBengali said:


> It will all come in due course.


Of course, of course, within 5 years.

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## Indus Pakistan

ZeEa5KPul said:


> but they know full well that without China they're just going to be a part of Akhand Bharat.


Frankly that is only possible if you get British to come back again. Conquer the sub-continent and then appoint the Queen as the Empress of 'Akhand Bharat' dressed as the British Raj. Would you be okay with that?

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## Beast

UKBengali said:


> 30'000 US dollar per capita PPP is developed.
> A developed country of 80 million people has the industrial technology to make tank and helicopter engines.
> Hey even Japan has fifth gen fighter prototype engine now ready and they came from just 50kn engine.


Nobody used PPP to claim to be developed. Standard is the used GDP of USD20000 per capital and above as gauge.

Japan is a 4 trillion economy and turkey is no where it's level. Japan is a leader in many CNC ,shipbuilding and biotech while turkey beside kebab. I have not known any area in technology where turkey can be claim as leading. Please bring facts and rather than your own personal reason in here. I am asking for facts and not your reasoning.

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## YeBeWarned

925boy said:


> Pakistan: China, please dont clarify what you're doing in Xinjiang
> China: f*ck off.
> Pakistan: Thank you for clarification



I think you miss the OP, Its about Indonesia not Pakistan .



Kaniska said:


> Turkey is a smart nation. They use the narrative based on their benefits. They use secularism to befriend of Nato and West, and Islamist card to club all the Muslim nations who are looking for leaders. It is not the fault of Turkey that they are smart rather it is the mistake of nations who do not calibrate their foreign strategy based on realism.
> 
> See the hypocrisy of BD and Pakistan. In the time of crisis for Pakistan, there are only 3 people who stood up with IK. One is Gulf nation, IMF and China. Where was Turkey at that crucial juncture for Pakistan? And again, Turkey is quite a rich country too. They could have easily afforded to invest and provide loans with less restricted terms to Pakistan. Who stopped them to provide a helping hand to Pakistan?



This thread is not about Pakistan ...



Kaniska said:


> @Starlord @Indus Pakistan ....At least, we, as an enemy fairs better in this respect while discussing about your issue.s



This is not the right thread to discuss it, that guy is overly emotional and childish to say the least .. No country is above the critique , so China also gets their fair share .. What i am failing to understand here, Why some members are so hell bent on bringing Pakistan into a Thread which is about Indonesia asking some clarification from China ? What does it has to do with us ? Indonesia is independent country , not part of some unified Caliphate or something . Whatever some Muslim countries are doing is in their individual capacity .

@waz brother take a look at this thread, I think a fair warning is due to some members who are going off topic .

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## Nike

This utter farce, i more prefer for Indonesia to keep laying low, not meddle other country business and keep build their economy, military and diplomatic fronts without that you just make a clown for yourselves. This world is being ruled by the one who got bigger military, economy and cultural power to backing their rules. No one give a **** against America as they bombed Iraq, Afghanistan into middle ages again or no one give a **** when Saudi killing orphans in Yemen, thats how far the world is working. You want to voice your interest, just backing them up with your muscle and wallet

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## Beast

925boy said:


> talking about Indonesia's own problems is a fallacy to distract from CHina's problems. AS of now, we are focused on the Uighurs your country is abusing, so pls dont use "2 wrongs make a right" logic because its faulty. You didnt disagree with my point that Indonesia isnt as afraid of China, so i think u agree with me on that. cheers.


Why not u say that to Indonesian.. it's not about 2 wrong. But one need to question is intention for such inquiry. A person itself is never just ,is never qualify to lecture others no matter what. It just make your stand and inquiry invalid. Is Indonesian really care about those uyghur or just making use of them to achieve political cheap shot? If is really care, then why double standard on its own citizen? Is it becos most west Papua are Christian and non indo and they do not deserve to be treated with respect?

What kind of verdict can Indonesian give on China when they themselves are abuser too? Will their verdict be just and no biased?

You have not answer many of my inquiry and I know you have no answer for it. So stick to your own problem until u prove your real just. I treat any of this inquiry with a punch of salt. And if others meddle into your own business. I hope you don't use double standard and claim others can't while I can, becos I feel more superior. Is this what u are trying to tell?

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## 艹艹艹

*Indonesia: We will not meddle in China's Uighur debate*
akarta / Mon, December 23, 2019 / 06:21 pm

Presidential Chief of Staff Moeldoko told reporters Monday that the government would not be poking its nose in another country’s business

“Every country has the sovereign right to manage its own citizens, so the Indonesian government will not meddle in the internal affairs of China,” Moeldoko said at his office in Jakarta

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## Beast

long_ said:


> *Indonesia: We will not meddle in China's Uighur debate*
> akarta / Mon, December 23, 2019 / 06:21 pm
> 
> Presidential Chief of Staff Moeldoko told reporters Monday that the government would not be poking its nose in another country’s business
> 
> “Every country has the sovereign right to manage its own citizens, so the Indonesian government will not meddle in the internal affairs of China,” Moeldoko said at his office in Jakarta


I hope their foreign minister will not raise the issue with China again. This is the last time and mind your Irian Jaya riot first. @Indos

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-west-papua-witnesses-unrest-indonesia-police

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## 艹艹艹

mike2000 is back said:


> Why is that when there's a news of a Muslim majority country taking any foreign action remotely Muslim related you guys immediately start saying that country should be the leader of the Muslim world ?
> I have seen that many times on here. Some will claim Turkey/erdogan should be the leader of Muslim world if he says anything regarding Muslims , some will claim Egypt should be the leader if there's a similar case, same with Iran if they said/did anything remotely similar , others will say Pakistan , others Saudi arabia , others Malaysia etc etc for various reasons .
> 
> So who is going to/should be the leader then?


well said

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## Indos

Beast said:


> I hope their foreign minister will not raise the issue with China again. This is the last time and mind your Irian Jaya riot first. @Indos
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-west-papua-witnesses-unrest-indonesia-police



Well, we will see whether your wish will come true since asking China about Uigyur for time to time look like has become one of our foreign policy objective. Actually, this administration is under a leadership of Jokowi who comes from Secular Nationalist party (PDI-P) but regardless of that, he still raise this issue directly into Chinese foreign minister. This show how Muslim issue is difficult to be separated from Indonesia foreign affair and show the influence of Muslim organizations like Muhammadiyah and MUI in any Indonesian administration. 

2024 Presidential election could be won by a coalition of Islamist and Nationalist Religious parties just like happen since 2004 until 2014. If that is the case more firm stand will possibly made on Uigyur issue by our foreign affairs office. 

This comes from Foreign Affair official statement:

Jakarta (ANTARA) - The Indonesian Foreign Ministry continues to seek clarification from the Chinese government about the latest developments in Xinjiang region related to the alleged discrimination and persecution of the Uighur Muslim ethnic group. "Indonesia has made and will always make approaches with the Chinese government through bilateral communication to discuss the Xinjiang issue," spokesman for the Foreign Ministry Teuku Faizasyah said in Jakarta Friday,

"So from time to time, we conduct communication. This shows how serious we are to see development in the field," he said.

https://en.antaranews.com/news/138500/indonesia-seeks-clarification-on-latest-situation-in-xinjiang

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## Beast

Indos said:


> Well, we will see whether your wish will come true since asking China about Uigyur for time to time look like has become one of our foreign policy objective. Actually, this administration is under a leadership of Jokowi who comes from Secular Nationalist party (PDI-P) but regardless of that, he still raise this issue directly into Chinese foreign minister. This show how Muslim issue is difficult to be separated from Indonesia foreign affair and show the influence of Muslim organizations like Muhammadiyah and MUI in any Indonesian administration.
> 
> 2024 Presidential election could be won by a coalition of Islamist and Nationalist Religious parties just like happen since 2004 until 2014. If that is the case more firm stand will possibly made on Uigyur issue by our foreign affairs office.
> 
> This comes from Foreign Affair official statement:
> 
> Jakarta (ANTARA) - The Indonesian Foreign Ministry continues to seek clarification from the Chinese government about the latest developments in Xinjiang region related to the alleged discrimination and persecution of the Uighur Muslim ethnic group. "Indonesia has made and will always make approaches with the Chinese government through bilateral communication to discuss the Xinjiang issue," spokesman for the Foreign Ministry Teuku Faizasyah said in Jakarta Friday,
> 
> "So from time to time, we conduct communication. This shows how serious we are to see development in the field," he said.
> 
> https://en.antaranews.com/news/138500/indonesia-seeks-clarification-on-latest-situation-in-xinjiang


Sure, this looks more like symbolic move rather than any real inquiry. The Indonesian government never once claim they are unsatisfied with reply from Chinese counterpart. They know they are in no position to criticize China in xinjiang issue.

Indonesia is having a hard timing battling separatist in West Papua. They will definitely support all measures by Chinese in xinjiang.

https://www.asiaone.com/digital/fac...n-accounts-inciting-tensions-about-west-papua

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## lonelyman

Indos said:


> *Indonesia seeks clarification on latest situation in Xinjiang*
> 20th December 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "So from time to time, we conduct communication. This shows how serious we are to see development in the field"
> 
> Jakarta (ANTARA) - The Indonesian Foreign Ministry continues to seek clarification from the Chinese government about the latest developments in Xinjiang region related to the alleged discrimination and persecution of the Uighur Muslim ethnic group. "Indonesia has made and will always make approaches with the Chinese government through bilateral communication to discuss the Xinjiang issue," spokesman for the Foreign Ministry Teuku Faizasyah said in Jakarta Friday,
> 
> "So from time to time, we conduct communication. This shows how serious we are to see development in the field," he said.
> 
> Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi also touched on the Xinjiang issue during a meeting with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi on the sidelines of the 14th Asia-Europe Ministerial Meeting held in Madrid, Spain, on Monday, December 18.
> 
> At the meeting, Retno asked Wang Yi to clarify the latest situation in Xinjiang. Wang Yi said China guarantees freedom of religion for Muslims in Xinjiang.
> 
> Earlier in the day, Indonesian Ulemas Council (MUI) Secretary General Anwar Abbas urged the ongoing Kuala Lumpur (KL) Summit to take a firm, stern stance against China to optimally fight the repression of the Uighur ethnic group in Xinjiang.
> 
> "The MUI calls on participants of the summit of Islamic countries in Kuala Lumpur or the KL Summit to take a firm and firm stance against the Chinese government," Abbas noted in a written statement released Friday.
> 
> Muslims across the world vehemently oppose China's mistreatment of Uighur Muslims, he stated.
> 
> The Chinese government has blatantly violated the human rights of Uighur Muslims, including preventing them from offering religious services under their religion and belief, he remarked.
> 
> "We realize that as a state, China has the right to govern them. However, they must not suppress the human rights of their people, especially the fundamental rights of Muslims there," he said.
> 
> He urged the Chinese government to end the violence against Uighur Muslims with immediate effect. The ethnic minority in China should be allowed to exercise their religious rights and follow their religious teachings properly.
> 
> In the absence of this, the world will be dragged into new local and global tensions, he cautioned.
> 
> "People in each country, especially Muslim nations, including Indonesia, will appeal to their government to take a firm stand against the Chinese government. Thus, it will have a detrimental impact on the development they are conducting," he added.
> 
> Reporter: Yashinta Difa/Suharto
> Editor: Gusti Nur Cahya Aryani
> COPYRIGHT © ANTARA 2019
> 
> https://en.antaranews.com/news/138500/indonesia-seeks-clarification-on-latest-situation-in-xinjiang



Mind your own fucking business, once we dealt with the orange orangutan in the white house, we need pay back the fucking Turks and Indonesians by donating free weapons and money to Kurds and some other rebellions

And fucking hypocrites too, why don't you raise Kashmire issues to Modi? where are you voice when Iraq were bombed into pieces with WMD lies?

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## Indos

*Indonesia Is Not Silent On Uighur: Foreign Minister*
BY :NUR YASMIN

DECEMBER 27, 2019




Muslim protesters stage a rally to protest against alleged oppression on China's Uighur Muslim communities in front of the Central Sulawesi's legislative council building in Palu, Central Sulawesi on Dec. 13, 2019. (Antara Photo/Basri Marzuki)

Jakarta. Indonesia has been actively communicating with China on Uighur issues to raise concern about freedom of religion among the Muslim-majority ethnic group in China's westernmost Xinjiang province, Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi said on Friday.

The Indonesian government and moderate Islamic groups like Nahdlatul Ulama and Muhammadiyah have been in the spotlights in the past weeks for their perceived silence over alleged persecution against the Uighur ethnic group.

Retno said she met with her Chinese counterpart Wang Yi on Dec. 16 and Chinese Ambassador for Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday.

“We have been communicating continuously with the Chinese government to express and request information regarding the situation,” Retno said after attending a meeting at the Coordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs’ compound in Central Jakarta.

She said Indonesia is actively engaging diplomatic measures on the issue.

“We had a pretty long talk with the [Chinese] foreign minister, and we stressed about the importance of freedom of religion. So, it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record,” Retno said.


https://jakartaglobe.id/news/indonesia-is-not-silent-on-uighur-foreign-minister

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## Sehnsucht

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan Read this thread from top to bottom.See the attitude of some Chinese regarding Uyghurs,Pakistan, Turkey & Indonesia. @Itachi @War Thunder

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Petrichor said:


> @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan Read this thread from top to bottom.See the attitude of some Chinese regarding Uyghurs,Pakistan, Turkey & Indonesia. @Itachi @War Thunder



I just see overly riled up Chinese kids trolling on Turkey and Pakistan, nothing else. It is not like this is the policy of CCP or China.

Notice the amount of Non-Muslim enemies of Islam, even in this thread, who become instant friends of Muslims when Uyghurs are mentioned. They don't care about us.

Only member who has knowledge to speak on this issue is brother @Indos 

I thank brother and sister Turks and Indonesians for trying to get some answers from the Chinese government about this issue. Fact-finding missions are very important and I hope China allows Muslim countries to send them, including Pakistan.

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## UKBengali

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I just see overly riled up Chinese kids trolling on Turkey and Pakistan, nothing else. It is not like this is the policy of CCP or China.
> 
> Notice the amount of Non-Muslim enemies of Islam, even in this thread, who become instant friends of Muslims when Uyghurs are mentioned. They don't care about us.
> 
> Only member who has knowledge to speak on this issue is brother @Indos
> 
> I thank brother and sister Turks and Indonesians for trying to get some answers from the Chinese government about this issue. Fact-finding missions are very important and I hope China allows Muslim countries to send them, including Pakistan.



What "fact-finding" is required?
China has a stated policy to destroy Uighur culture and most Chinese pdf posters are no longer hiding this.
Would love for Pakistan and BD to join in talking about this criminal behaviour as well.

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## bsruzm

Indos said:


> *Indonesia seeks clarification on latest situation in Xinjiang*
> 20th December 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "So from time to time, we conduct communication. This shows how serious we are to see development in the field"
> 
> Jakarta (ANTARA) - The Indonesian Foreign Ministry continues to seek clarification from the Chinese government about the latest developments in Xinjiang region related to the alleged discrimination and persecution of the Uighur Muslim ethnic group. "Indonesia has made and will always make approaches with the Chinese government through bilateral communication to discuss the Xinjiang issue," spokesman for the Foreign Ministry Teuku Faizasyah said in Jakarta Friday,
> 
> "So from time to time, we conduct communication. This shows how serious we are to see development in the field," he said.
> 
> Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi also touched on the Xinjiang issue during a meeting with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi on the sidelines of the 14th Asia-Europe Ministerial Meeting held in Madrid, Spain, on Monday, December 18.
> 
> At the meeting, Retno asked Wang Yi to clarify the latest situation in Xinjiang. Wang Yi said China guarantees freedom of religion for Muslims in Xinjiang.
> 
> Earlier in the day, Indonesian Ulemas Council (MUI) Secretary General Anwar Abbas urged the ongoing Kuala Lumpur (KL) Summit to take a firm, stern stance against China to optimally fight the repression of the Uighur ethnic group in Xinjiang.
> 
> "The MUI calls on participants of the summit of Islamic countries in Kuala Lumpur or the KL Summit to take a firm and firm stance against the Chinese government," Abbas noted in a written statement released Friday.
> 
> Muslims across the world vehemently oppose China's mistreatment of Uighur Muslims, he stated.
> 
> The Chinese government has blatantly violated the human rights of Uighur Muslims, including preventing them from offering religious services under their religion and belief, he remarked.
> 
> "We realize that as a state, China has the right to govern them. However, they must not suppress the human rights of their people, especially the fundamental rights of Muslims there," he said.
> 
> He urged the Chinese government to end the violence against Uighur Muslims with immediate effect. The ethnic minority in China should be allowed to exercise their religious rights and follow their religious teachings properly.
> 
> In the absence of this, the world will be dragged into new local and global tensions, he cautioned.
> 
> "People in each country, especially Muslim nations, including Indonesia, will appeal to their government to take a firm stand against the Chinese government. Thus, it will have a detrimental impact on the development they are conducting," he added.
> 
> Reporter: Yashinta Difa/Suharto
> Editor: Gusti Nur Cahya Aryani
> COPYRIGHT © ANTARA 2019
> 
> https://en.antaranews.com/news/138500/indonesia-seeks-clarification-on-latest-situation-in-xinjiang


Well done, Indonesia.

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## Sehnsucht

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I just see overly riled up Chinese kids trolling on Turkey and Pakistan, nothing else. It is not like this is the policy of CCP or China.


They aren't trolling kids.Their attitude exposes the mindset of the Chinese towards our Uyghur brothers & sisters.Just as sanghi mindset in the internet exposes the hate Indian bhakts have for Muslims.


Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Notice the amount of Non-Muslim enemies of Islam, even in this thread, who become instant friends of Muslims when Uyghurs are mentioned. They don't care about us.


I agree.Many of them are here because they want to take shots at China,not because they care about us.If they really cared about all Muslims, they would have spoke out against atrocities in Kashmir, Gaza as well.


Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Only member who has knowledge to speak on this issue is brother @Indos


Brother @Indos is a far more knowledgeable member no doubt.But I believe any Muslim who believes in the concept of Islamic brotherhood has as much right to speak out about it as any other.As our Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) instructed us, we are one body.What happens to our brothers in Kashmir,Yemen,Iraq or Somalia should pain us just as much as what happens to our brothers in Gaza,Arakan or Serbia.


Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I thank brother and sister Turks and Indonesians for trying to get some answers from the Chinese government about this issue.


I thank them as well.I pray they continue their efforts on finding out the truth about our Uyghur brothers & sisters.May Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala help & protect them.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Fact-finding missions are very important and I hope China allows Muslim countries to send them, including Pakistan.


I have no problem with it.Let China open up Xinjiang to the delegations from countries like Turkey,Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan.If things are as rosy as the CCP claims,Chinese government should have no issues with it.In fact they should welcome this as a chance to recover their image throughout the entire world & expose western lies, if they are actually lies.

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## bsruzm

lonelyman said:


> once we dealt with the orange orangutan in the white house, we need pay back the fucking Turks and Indonesians by donating free weapons and money to Kurds and some other rebellions


Clown

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## somsak

Indonesian chinese1998

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## Char

Indos said:


> *Indonesia seeks clarification on latest situation in Xinjiang*
> 20th December 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "So from time to time, we conduct communication. This shows how serious we are to see development in the field"
> 
> Jakarta (ANTARA) - The Indonesian Foreign Ministry continues to seek clarification from the Chinese government about the latest developments in Xinjiang region related to the alleged discrimination and persecution of the Uighur Muslim ethnic group. "Indonesia has made and will always make approaches with the Chinese government through bilateral communication to discuss the Xinjiang issue," spokesman for the Foreign Ministry Teuku Faizasyah said in Jakarta Friday,
> 
> "So from time to time, we conduct communication. This shows how serious we are to see development in the field," he said.
> 
> Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi also touched on the Xinjiang issue during a meeting with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi on the sidelines of the 14th Asia-Europe Ministerial Meeting held in Madrid, Spain, on Monday, December 18.
> 
> At the meeting, Retno asked Wang Yi to clarify the latest situation in Xinjiang. Wang Yi said China guarantees freedom of religion for Muslims in Xinjiang.
> 
> Earlier in the day, Indonesian Ulemas Council (MUI) Secretary General Anwar Abbas urged the ongoing Kuala Lumpur (KL) Summit to take a firm, stern stance against China to optimally fight the repression of the Uighur ethnic group in Xinjiang.
> 
> "The MUI calls on participants of the summit of Islamic countries in Kuala Lumpur or the KL Summit to take a firm and firm stance against the Chinese government," Abbas noted in a written statement released Friday.
> 
> Muslims across the world vehemently oppose China's mistreatment of Uighur Muslims, he stated.
> 
> The Chinese government has blatantly violated the human rights of Uighur Muslims, including preventing them from offering religious services under their religion and belief, he remarked.
> 
> "We realize that as a state, China has the right to govern them. However, they must not suppress the human rights of their people, especially the fundamental rights of Muslims there," he said.
> 
> He urged the Chinese government to end the violence against Uighur Muslims with immediate effect. The ethnic minority in China should be allowed to exercise their religious rights and follow their religious teachings properly.
> 
> In the absence of this, the world will be dragged into new local and global tensions, he cautioned.
> 
> "People in each country, especially Muslim nations, including Indonesia, will appeal to their government to take a firm stand against the Chinese government. Thus, it will have a detrimental impact on the development they are conducting," he added.
> 
> Reporter: Yashinta Difa/Suharto
> Editor: Gusti Nur Cahya Aryani
> COPYRIGHT © ANTARA 2019
> 
> https://en.antaranews.com/news/138500/indonesia-seeks-clarification-on-latest-situation-in-xinjiang



You will find China's a nice country when other none Muslim countries begin to deal with Muslims in their home. If you think China will make concession because China is talking with you politely then you are totally wrong. Don't count on Taliban they are more reasonable than you.

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## Beast

UKBengali said:


> What "fact-finding" is required?
> China has a stated policy to destroy Uighur culture and most Chinese pdf posters are no longer hiding this.
> Would love for Pakistan and BD to join in talking about this criminal behaviour as well.


Yet you have no qualm about Bangladesh buying weapons and doing business with China despite their deep hatre how ironic?

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## Char

Petrichor said:


> I have no problem with it.Let China open up Xinjiang to the delegations from countries like Turkey,Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan.If things are as rosy as the CCP claims,Chinese government should have no issues with it.In fact they should welcome this as a chance to recover their image throughout the entire world & expose western lies, if they are actually lies.



There is restriction but no oppression or prosecution.

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## UKBengali

Beast said:


> Yet you have no qualm about Bangladesh buying weapons and doing business with China despite their deep hatre how ironic?



Taking loans and buying weapons from China is just business.

China gets richer and BD also becomes richer and deters India.

Both countries win, what is the problem?

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## mike2000 is back

Ritual said:


> Because there needs to be some leadership. Its been too long that the Gulf has effectively been arm twisted into paying protection money to the US and reneged on their historic leadership role. As the US has effectively become imbued with Evangelical zeal since George Bush era and thinks there is no opposition to it bombing the hell out of these countries.


Ok so who should.be the leader then? Do you think if say Turkey is the leader other countries like say Iran will agree to follow their lead? If Indonesia was to be the leader you think others like Malaysia, Turkey, etc will agree to follow behind them as juniors ? Etc etc. I don't think it's feasible to be honest. Moreover the gap between these countries (technologically, economically, scientifically , militarily etc ) isn't that big. So there's no way any one of these countries will agree to be a junior or follow the leadership of the other, not even counting nationalism and pride there as well.


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## Beast

Petrichor said:


> They aren't trolling kids.Their attitude exposes the mindset of the Chinese towards our Uyghur brothers & sisters.Just as sanghi mindset in the internet exposes the hate Indian bhakts have for Muslims.



You have prove nothing so far... All the so called allegation are either fake or make up. And than your mindset is a lies repeated thousand times and believe it will be the truth...

let me show you one classic example
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/a-lo...nd-other-minorities-nyt.647917/#post-11979496

Let me ask you, if non existence violent happened against enthic race and unreasonable inquiry raise against that country, how would you feel?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/26/opinion/papua-riots-indonesia-monkey.html

It easy for some to ignore their own internal problem and then focus on others to evade your own internal problem.

I put it bluntly, Bangladesh/indonesia too have an internal issue of minority christian/Hindu fleeing against persecution.

So you are saying your righteous is reserve for muslim only? Non muslim deserve violent and killed?

https://minorityrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/MRG_Rep_Ban_Oct16_ONLINE.pdf

*Since 2013, Bangladesh has experienced a series of violent attacks by extremists. The victims have included – besides atheists, secular bloggers, liberals and foreigners – many Buddhists, Christians and Hindus as well as Ahmadis and Shi’a Muslims. A large number of the attacks targeting religious minorities in particular have subsequently been claimed by the organization Islamic State (IS) – a claim vigorously denied by the Bangladeshi government, which has attributed the attacks to domestic militant groups.

*

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## mike2000 is back

ZeEa5KPul said:


> They've been fighting over that question amongst themselves for a hundred years since the Ottoman empire fell (in truth, they've been fighting over it for the 1400 years since their prophet died; the dissolution of their empire just took the lid off and exposed it to everyone). Maybe in another hundred years they'll get back to us with an answer.
> 
> Without a trace of irony I'll say that China should lead it. China has Muslims, therefore China should lead the Muslim world. It's as good a justification as any they have.


Lol. That's an interesting one actually. . However,even though China has Muslims it will be ironic if they were to lead them due to that then it will be a paradox, since by that measure countries like India can also lead them as well given its size and vast population of Muslims (over 200million Muslims, more than the population of any Muslim country except Indonesia) . An officially an atheist government/country and a Hindu led country leading Muslim world. Now that will be interesting


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## Beast

UKBengali said:


> Taking loans and buying weapons from China is just business.
> 
> China gets richer and BD also becomes richer and deters India.
> 
> Both countries win, what is the problem?


See the double sided face of this hyprocrite. The money earn from bangladesh can help us build more sophsiticated equipment or better armed police to deal with local violence and control. Right?

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## bsruzm

mike2000 is back said:


> Lol. That's an interesting one actually. . However,even though China has Muslims it will be ironic if they were to lead them due to that then it will be a paradox, since by that measure countries like India can even less them as well given its size and vast population of Muslims (over 200million) . An officially an atheist government/country a Hindu led country leading Muslim world. Now that will be interesting


Not funny, that's something UK tried but failed miserably.


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## UKBengali

Beast said:


> See the double sided face of this hyprocrite. The money earn from bangladesh can help us build more sophsiticated equipment or better armed police to deal with local violence and control. Right?



Look BD actually wants China to do well economically and militarily as then it is good for China, BD and most of the world in general.
We just do not understand why you do not understand that trying to destroy someone's culture is wrong?


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## Char

UKBengali said:


> Look BD actually wants China to do well economically and militarily as then it is good for China, BD and most of the world in general.
> We just do not understand why you do not understand that trying to destroy someone's culture is wrong?



Arabization is destroying Uighurs' culture.

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## ZeEa5KPul

mike2000 is back said:


> Lol. That's an interesting one actually. . However,even though China has Muslims it will be ironic if they were to lead them due to that then it will be a paradox, since by that measure countries like India can also lead them as well given its size and vast population of Muslims (over 200million Muslims, more than the population of any Muslim country except Indonesia) . An officially an atheist government/country and a Hindu led country leading Muslim world. Now that will be interesting


The more I think about it, the more I go "why not?"


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## Beast

UKBengali said:


> Look BD actually wants China to do well economically and militarily as then it is good for China, BD and most of the world in general.
> We just do not understand why you do not understand that trying to destroy someone's culture is wrong?


We never try destroy one culture. The one really want to destroy uyghur culture are wahabbism and salafism..

China ban these 2 sect who encourage abandon uyghur customes, folks singing and traditional. It ask woman to dress Burqa instead of traditional Uighur dress. China for once never outlaw uighur langauges since the creation of PRC 1949 while its Turkey who only legalize Kurdish languages and Indonesia too legalize Chinese language in year 2000 only. Feel free to checkout my facts of what I mention.

_There are exceptions to laws and regulations that ban the use of Mandarin. The use of Mandarin in traditional Chinese medicine prescriptions, for example, is not prohibited, since legal proceedings related to this case have been suspended after lobbying made to the Attorney General (Jaksa Agung) of Indonesia by INI (Ikatan Naturopatis Indonesia)._
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_Chinese_Indonesians

_The use of Kurdish language, dress, folklore, and names were banned and the Kurdish-inhabited areas remained under martial law until 1946.[7] In an attempt to deny their existence, the Turkish government categorized Kurds as "Mountain Turks" until the 1980s._

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_of_Kurdish_people_in_Turkey

While Uighur language CCTV channel long existence ever since Xinjiang TV created in the late 70s. You can feel free to google those channel upload in youtube.

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## UKBengali

Char said:


> Arabization is destroying Uighurs' culture.



We agree that Arab influence is not good but why do you not come and ask Muslim countries like BD how to deal with Wahabi culture?


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## Char

UKBengali said:


> We agree that Arab influence is not good but why do you not come and ask Muslim countries like BD how to deal with Wahabi culture?



You don't succeed, and China is different, why should China follow you step?

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## Spy Master

Well done Indonesia. Should have been Pakistan asking this question.

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## UKBengali

Char said:


> You don't succeed, and China is different, why should China follow you step?



Yes BD succeeded.
BD is still largely free of Wahabi influence.

This Rohingya and Uighur issue is not helping China to make friends.

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## Beast

UKBengali said:


> Yes BD succeeded.
> BD is still largely free of Wahabi influence.
> 
> This Rohingya and Uighur issue is not helping China to make friends.


Thing is not always just black and white. Uighur is never an issue but more of misinfo by west and you foolishly believe it.

Rohingya issue cannot be solved in a single day. No countries even the US are willing to send troops to force repatriation against Myanmar. By provoking Myanmar, what good will it do to Rohingya even they are expatriate back? China believe in dialogue to coax them slowly take back their citizen with dignity. Its lengthy but is the best solution. Economic sanction will applies if all dialogues failed and let them realise its themselves to reach that stage.

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## Indos

mike2000 is back said:


> Ok so who should.be the leader then? Do you think if say Turkey is the leader other countries like say Iran will agree to follow their lead? If Indonesia was to be the leader you think others like Malaysia, Turkey, etc will agree to follow behind them as juniors ? Etc etc. I don't think it's feasible to be honest. Moreover the gap between these countries (technologically, economically, scientifically , militarily etc ) isn't that big. So there's no way any country will agree to be a junior or follow the leadership of the other.



I dont think there should be any leader for this group in order to be able to make any joint action whether in diplomatic front, economic front, or possibly military front. Common aspiration can be the best glue for making such cooperation, particularly among members with strong economy and military. We have OIC for the start, and I think this organization can be utilize for bigger and significant objective like imposing economic embargo to any particular country who persecute Muslim. We have actually done that with Israel.

If for instance Western European countries can make union like EU so why Muslim nations cannot make similar union? If we look on the past, those countries were fighting each other for hundreds of years before but they now can make such union. We also see effective union like African Union who even have their joint military force and has made military intervention in Somalia.

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## UKBengali

Beast said:


> Thing is not always just black and white. Uighur is never an issue but more of misinfo by west and you foolishly believe it.
> 
> Rohingya issue cannot be solved in a single day. No countries even the US are willing to send troops to force repatriation against Myanmar. By provoking Myanmar, what good will it do to Rohingya even they are expatriate back? China believe in dialogue to coax them slowly take back their citizen with dignity. Its lengthy but is the best solution. Economic sanction will applies if all dialogues failed and let them realise its themselves to reach that stage.



Ok, let us agree to disagree as both BD and China have good economic and military relations.

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## Char

UKBengali said:


> Yes BD succeeded.
> BD is still largely free of Wahabi influence.
> 
> This Rohingya and Uighur issue is not helping China to make friends.



Glad to see you succeed, China also succeed, people dont need to go through the same way to succeed.

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## UKBengali

Char said:


> Glad to see you succeed, China also succeed, people dont need to go through the same way to succeed.



Which other country in modern history needs to erase a culture to fight terrorism?
No one disputes that Xinjiang is legally Chinese territory, it is your methods are far far too extreme to deal with your problems in that territory.

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## mike2000 is back

Indos said:


> I dont think there should be any leader for this group in order to be able to make any joint action whether in diplomatic front, economic front, or possibly military front. Common aspiration can be the best glue for making such cooperation, particularly among members with strong economy and military. We have OIC for the start, and I think this organization can be utilize for bigger and significant objective like imposing economic embargo to any particular country who persecute Muslim. We have actually done that with Israel.
> 
> If for instance Western European countries can make union like EU so why Muslim nations cannot make similar union? If we look on the past, those countries were fighting each other for hundreds of years before but they now can make such union. We also see effective union like African Union who even have their joint military force and has made military intervention in Somalia.


Yes a union sound more feasible. However, there also needs to be some sort of understanding and common interest in play here before such a grouping can succeed. Also the Muslim world is too vast and diverse unlike Europe is on the same geographical region/continent and shares similar links/history/culture to some extent and after the first and second world world's they had to come to an understanding given the world's changing landscape and their shared interests in forming a grouping/union to counter balance the emergence of the mighty Soviet Union which posed a big security/existential threat to European countries back then , hence it made forming a union to counter this shared threat easier. 
However it's different for muslim countries since they are spread over the world , from Balkans in eastern far side of Europe to Mediterranean to Africa to Middle east to South East Asia to South Asia etc. They are to diverse and complicated. Moreover they don't share the same history, culture/tradition is world's apart, interests and threats are totally different , realities they are facing are completely different from each other etc. So this makes a Islamic union similar to E.U almost impossible to work like E.U. So it will always be limited in what they can achieve.


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## Char

UKBengali said:


> Which other country in modern history needs to erase a culture to fight terrorism?
> No one disputes that Xinjiang is legally Chinese territory, it is your methods are far far too extreme to deal with your problems in that territory.



Uighurs' culture is back actually. Chinese don't have extreme mind, but will be more tough after being pushed.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

UKBengali said:


> What "fact-finding" is required?
> China has a stated policy to destroy Uighur culture and most Chinese pdf posters are no longer hiding this.
> Would love for Pakistan and BD to join in talking about this criminal behaviour as well.



If you don't trust Western media as we Pakistanis, then you will need to find out the facts for yourself.

We witnessed their lies which led the world to support their illegal destruction and occupation of Afghanistan, their sham Osama hunt in Pakistan (when he died in 2002 in Tora Bora,) and their manipulative rhetoric and terrorism funding from Afghan safe houses against Pakistan for the last 20 years, which killed 75,000 of our people.

This is why what Indonesia is doing is very important, and more Muslim countries should join the cause.

Pakistan's official position right now is simply, "We don't have all the facts to make any policy decisions."

This is because we do not buy into Western scapegoating against China or any other country. We were one of the few which supported the government of Venezuela against US pressure at the UN.

We are going to need some more concrete facts and figures, Indonesia and Turkey are much more reliable for this than the biased, manipulative West.

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## UKBengali

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> If you don't trust Western media as we Pakistanis, then you will need to find out the facts for yourself.
> 
> We witnessed their lies which led the world to support their illegal destruction and occupation of Afghanistan, their shame Osama hunt in Pakistan (when he died in 2002 in Tora Bora,) and their manipulative rhetoric and terrorism funding from Afghan safe houses against Pakistan for the last 20 years, which killed 75,000 of our people.
> 
> This is why what Indonesia is doing is very important, and more Muslim countries should join the cause.
> 
> Pakistan's official position right now is simply, "We don't have all the facts to make any policy decisions."
> 
> This is because we do not buy into Western scapegoating against China or any other country. We were one of the few which supported the government of Venezuela against US pressure at the UN.
> 
> We are going to need some more concrete facts and figures, Indonesia and Turkey are much more reliable for this than the biased, manipulative West.



Ok fair enough.
Time for China to allow a Muslim delegation full access to Xinjiang to find out for real.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

UKBengali said:


> Taking loans and buying weapons from China is just business.
> 
> China gets richer and BD also becomes richer and deters India.
> 
> Both countries win, what is the problem?



It is business also for Pakistan, please understand.

We have the same enemies like you, which is RSS India, but we have an additional nefarious alliance against us in the shape of US-Israel and its slaves like KSA/UAE.

Pakistan has to live in this reality where we are surrounded by hostile neighbors on all sides (India, Iran, Oman, Afghanistan, now KSA/UAE) and only China is safe for us.

Alhamdulilah Afghanistan woke up and becoming our ally once more, and Turkey is always there for us.

Uyghurs are our blood relatives of our people of GB, we intermarry often with them and share the same culture. Aside from Turkey, Pakistan hosts the most Uyghurs. We are invested in finding a solution to benefit our Uygur relatives.



Char said:


> Arabization is destroying Uighurs' culture.



Please keep your personal opinions out of this conversation, you only do disservice to your great nation.

@mike2000 is back @ZeEa5KPul 

Don't talk about matters which you do not understand. Muslims ruled from Eastern Europe to India, which was no easy feat.

So-called heroes of Uyghurs spreading your Hope's and dreams for Muslim weakness.

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## lonelyman

Indos said:


> *Indonesia Is Not Silent On Uighur: Foreign Minister*
> BY :NUR YASMIN
> 
> DECEMBER 27, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim protesters stage a rally to protest against alleged oppression on China's Uighur Muslim communities in front of the Central Sulawesi's legislative council building in Palu, Central Sulawesi on Dec. 13, 2019. (Antara Photo/Basri Marzuki)
> 
> Jakarta. Indonesia has been actively communicating with China on Uighur issues to raise concern about freedom of religion among the Muslim-majority ethnic group in China's westernmost Xinjiang province, Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi said on Friday.
> 
> The Indonesian government and moderate Islamic groups like Nahdlatul Ulama and Muhammadiyah have been in the spotlights in the past weeks for their perceived silence over alleged persecution against the Uighur ethnic group.
> 
> Retno said she met with her Chinese counterpart Wang Yi on Dec. 16 and Chinese Ambassador for Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday.
> 
> “We have been communicating continuously with the Chinese government to express and request information regarding the situation,” Retno said after attending a meeting at the Coordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs’ compound in Central Jakarta.
> 
> She said Indonesia is actively engaging diplomatic measures on the issue.
> 
> “We had a pretty long talk with the [Chinese] foreign minister, and we stressed about the importance of freedom of religion. So, it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record,” Retno said.
> 
> 
> https://jakartaglobe.id/news/indonesia-is-not-silent-on-uighur-foreign-minister



Yeah, by mouth war like Indians? Why don’t you come fight with China?

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## 925boy

Indos said:


> *Indonesia Is Not Silent On Uighur: Foreign Minister*
> BY :NUR YASMIN
> 
> DECEMBER 27, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim protesters stage a rally to protest against alleged oppression on China's Uighur Muslim communities in front of the Central Sulawesi's legislative council building in Palu, Central Sulawesi on Dec. 13, 2019. (Antara Photo/Basri Marzuki)
> 
> Jakarta. Indonesia has been actively communicating with China on Uighur issues to raise concern about freedom of religion among the Muslim-majority ethnic group in China's westernmost Xinjiang province, Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi said on Friday.
> 
> The Indonesian government and moderate Islamic groups like Nahdlatul Ulama and Muhammadiyah have been in the spotlights in the past weeks for their perceived silence over alleged persecution against the Uighur ethnic group.
> 
> Retno said she met with her Chinese counterpart Wang Yi on Dec. 16 and Chinese Ambassador for Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday.
> 
> “We have been communicating continuously with the Chinese government to express and request information regarding the situation,” Retno said after attending a meeting at the Coordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs’ compound in Central Jakarta.
> 
> She said Indonesia is actively engaging diplomatic measures on the issue.
> 
> “We had a pretty long talk with the [Chinese] foreign minister, and we stressed about the importance of freedom of religion. So, it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record,” Retno said.
> 
> 
> https://jakartaglobe.id/news/indonesia-is-not-silent-on-uighur-foreign-minister


Indonesia seems to be claiming the throne for leader of Muslim South East Asian countries. Proud of this maturity and competency.


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## Surya 1

Hats off to Indonesia. This is the one Muslim country which is dare to question Barbaric China. Most others are busy in licking China's feet.

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## 925boy

Char said:


> There is restriction but no oppression or prosecution.


Then Chinese people like you have a different understanding of the meaning of oppression and prosecution than us outside China.

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## OBLiTeRate TrumpTurd

Wow, there are so many *GULLIBLE and BRAINWASHED Muslims* and
( Undisputed Cockroaches *MURICAN* ) * *Muslim SLAVES* on PDF.

===

How many people from the *Muslim world* are *aware & recognizing* that ... ...

#1) there are many, many Uyghur Chinese Female PLAN officers & many male officers too ( _who usually always command very FLUENT English_ ) *on board* PLAN aircraft carriers CV-16 & CV-17.

PROOF:
There are so many CV-16 & CV-17 videos showing these fact above.


#2) being the PLAN officers working on board aircraft carriers CV-16 & CV-17
are such ... *EXTREMELY PRESTIGIOUS & ADMIRABLE positions* in Chinese society.









===

Unfortunately Wonderful Uyghur facts above never get out to the outside world, because too many Chinese are extremely *SHORT SIGHTED* and extremely *INFERIOR* in POSITIVE public relation skills.

@UKBengali ,, @Pakhtoon yum ,, @Syed Hammad Ahmed ,, @Petrichor

@ZeEa5KPul

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## 925boy

UKBengali said:


> Which other country in modern history needs to erase a culture to fight terrorism?
> No one disputes that Xinjiang is legally Chinese territory, it is your methods are far far too extreme to deal with your problems in that territory.


I agree.

IF China really feels its not doing anything wrong, then let it open the suspected facilities up to surprise and unrestricted access to international NGO personnel. If CHina has nothing to hide then why is it hiding these sites from international public????



UKBengali said:


> Ok fair enough.
> Time for China to allow a Muslim delegation full access to Xinjiang to find out for real.


if they have nothing to hide, and these are known friendly/not enemy nations to China, i dont see why China will decline this offer..

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## FedererExpress

*There is absolutely nothing to clarify. The totalitarian Communist dictatorship is running concentration camps. This is what the Nazis did in the 1930’s and 1940’s.*

*Here is video evidence of Communist China’s concentration camps. This is in Korla city. We are dealing with pure evil folks. Pure evil. These are human beings they are doing this to. *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1176352558534799360


Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I just see overly riled up Chinese kids trolling on Turkey and Pakistan, nothing else. It is not like this is the policy of CCP or China.



If you think this is just the behaviour of bunch of Chinese kids you really haven’t been around Han Chinese people. If you did, you would quickly realise Han Chinese are the most racist group of people you will ever come across. There is a reason Vietnamese, Japanese, Koreans all hate the Han Chinese with a burning passion. It’s due to the grotesque racism spewed by the Han Chinese. Han Chinese are racist to any non-Han Chinese especially people of brown and black skin colour and other Asians. Get to know a few of them and it will hit you like a bolt of lightning. There are racists, and then there are the Han Chinese racists. I’m speaking from experience of talking to Han Chinese at University and at work.

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## thewayoftheworld

FedererExpress said:


> *There is absolutely nothing to clarify. The totalitarian Communist dictatorship is running concentration camps. This is what the Nazis did in the 1930’s and 1940’s.*
> 
> *Here is video evidence of Communist China’s concentration camps. This is in Korla city. We are dealing with pure evil folks. Pure evil. These are human beings they are doing this to. *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1176352558534799360
> 
> 
> If you think this is just the behaviour of bunch of Chinese kids you really haven’t been around Han Chinese people. If you did, you would quickly realise Han Chinese are the most racist group of people you will ever come across. There is a reason Vietnamese, Japanese, Koreans all hate the Han Chinese with a burning passion. It’s due to the grotesque racism spewed by the Han Chinese. Han Chinese are racist to any non-Han Chinese especially people of brown and black skin colour and other Asians. Get to know a few of them and it will hit you like a bolt of lightning. There are racists, and then there are the Han Chinese racists. I’m speaking from experience of talking to Han Chinese at University and at work.



I disagree. I think AngloAmerican are the most racist. They have a superiority complex and think everyone is beneath them. They are also very violent. Anglo American society justified genocide through white supremacy. They have racist names for all nonwhite races. Very dehumanizing names. Chinese are so much tamer. Chinese doesn’t go around the world and promote their supremacy but Anglo white supremacy permeates through all their media.

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## FedererExpress

thewayoftheworld said:


> I disagree. I think AngloAmerican are the most racist. They have a superiority complex and think everyone is beneath them. They are also very violent. Anglo American society justified genocide through white supremacy. They have racist names for all nonwhite races. Very dehumanizing names. Chinese are so much tamer. Chinese doesn’t go around the world and promote their supremacy but Anglo white supremacy permeates through all their media.



Anglosphere are the least racist nations on earth. We allow immigrants to come to our countries, allow them to be citizens, allow them to vote, allow them to practice their religion, allow them to build religious places of worship, allow them to dress however they like.

We don’t believe in racial supremacy like the Han Chinese do. We are multicultural countries that have people of many ethnicities in many important positions in society. We believe in the supremacy of universal values such as Democracy, rule of law, independent judiciary, right to a lawyer, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom to assemble, etc. These universal values have nothing to do with race. These universal values are supported by immigrants in our countries and many countries all around the world.

What exactly do we do that are racist?


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## 艹艹艹

UKBengali said:


> Yeah and that is why even Pakistan rejected Chinese attack helicopter and brought Turkish instead.
> BD has also placed an order for 18 Turkish T-300B MLRS units with range of 120km and considering the 300km range T-300A.
> 
> In 10 years Turkey will be able to supply the Muslim world with virtually all civilian and military tech. China will be out of business in those two areas for lots of Muslim countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BD is growing 8% a year and expected to stay at least 7% till 2030. Do the math at how quickly BD is progressing just like China managed from 2000 till now.
> 
> Dhaka is having massive infrastructure investments and slums are being torn down and replaced with flats at breakneck speeds.
> 
> 
> 
> Many more than China it seems.





UKBengali said:


> Nope it is all Turkish apart from the US engine - just based on Italian design though.
> 
> Uses Turkish radar, avionics and missiles.
> Turkey can export to anyone apart from US and Italy and so that proves that the tech is Turkish
> 
> Guess what? Philippines is also going to take 10 helicopters for a total of 40 exported.
> BD was looking to get Turkish T-129 but decided to go for US AH-64E.
> Chinese Z-10 has exported precisely zero so far
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey is building a 5th gen aircraft and it will be able to make everything apart from the engine for it. It is working with UK on this project.
> 
> Your J-20 uses a 4th generation WS-10B engine and so talk when it has WS-15 installed as it is not true 5th gen jet yet
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey has learnt enough from the West and is making their own tech now.
> 
> They have a GDP per capita at PPP of 30,000 US dollars, far more than the 20,000 US dollars of China and so they are well developed with population of 80 million. They also are expected to grow 3-4% a year average and so should catch up with Western Europe by around 2030. You think a country of near 100 million people by 2030 with GDP per capita on the level of Western Europe is not going to be fully developed?
> 
> Of course Turkey will have a massive market for it's defence products in the Muslim world and they will sell billions of US dollars per year in the 2020s just to other Muslims. This large export market will help Turkey develop cutting-edge weapons systems for the use of all Muslim countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 10 years time, apart from the Arabs pretty much most of the Muslim world will be working as a common bloc for Muslim interests. China will be out there alone and even Pakistan will be keeping it's distance from you as it's population is Muslim and anti-atheist.
> 
> 
> Pakistanis are far more hardcore Muslims than BD'shis FYI.





FedererExpress said:


> Anglosphere are the least racist nations on earth. We allow immigrants to come to our countries, allow them to be citizens, allow them to vote, allow them to practice their religion, allow them to build religious places of worship, allow them to dress however they like.










Surya 1 said:


> Hats off to Indonesia this is the world Muslim country which is dare to question Barbaric China. Most others are busy in licking China's feet.


Hats off to Indian muslims

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## GiantPanda

Indonesians murdered tens of thousands of ethnic Chinese in the 1960s and raped and murdered hundreds of Chinese girls in the 1990s.

The Chinese language was banned.

Unlike the Uighurs who slaughtered 100s of Chinese in terrorist attacks, the ethnic Chinese in Indonesia were not engaged in terrorism.

So should China ask Indonesia for an explanation?

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## Surya 1

FedererExpress said:


> *There is absolutely nothing to clarify. The totalitarian Communist dictatorship is running concentration camps. This is what the Nazis did in the 1930’s and 1940’s.*
> 
> *Here is video evidence of Communist China’s concentration camps. This is in Korla city. We are dealing with pure evil folks. Pure evil. These are human beings they are doing this to. *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1176352558534799360
> 
> 
> If you think this is just the behaviour of bunch of Chinese kids you really haven’t been around Han Chinese people. If you did, you would quickly realise Han Chinese are the most racist group of people you will ever come across. There is a reason Vietnamese, Japanese, Koreans all hate the Han Chinese with a burning passion. It’s due to the grotesque racism spewed by the Han Chinese. Han Chinese are racist to any non-Han Chinese especially people of brown and black skin colour and other Asians. Get to know a few of them and it will hit you like a bolt of lightning. There are racists, and then there are the Han Chinese racists. I’m speaking from experience of talking to Han Chinese at University and at work.



You can not expect these blind subverted lot to see any truth. They have grown up in an atmosphere of false propaganda and have develop a habit of lying. They will not only try to defend the dirty work of their dictatorial regime but will try to glorify it. They are regressed nations and will collapse at any time. They do not know the power of truth.

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## 艹艹艹

Surya 1 said:


> They have grown up in an atmosphere of false propaganda and have develop a habit of lying. They will not only try to defend the dirty work of their dictatorial regime but will try to glorify it. They are regressed nations and will collapse at any time. They do not know the power of truth.


hello，superpower！

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## Char

925boy said:


> Then Chinese people like you have a different understanding of the meaning of oppression and prosecution than us outside China.



Stupid like you can't understand the difference.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

FedererExpress said:


> *There is absolutely nothing to clarify. The totalitarian Communist dictatorship is running concentration camps. This is what the Nazis did in the 1930’s and 1940’s.*
> 
> *Here is video evidence of Communist China’s concentration camps. This is in Korla city. We are dealing with pure evil folks. Pure evil. These are human beings they are doing this to. *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1176352558534799360
> 
> 
> If you think this is just the behaviour of bunch of Chinese kids you really haven’t been around Han Chinese people. If you did, you would quickly realise Han Chinese are the most racist group of people you will ever come across. There is a reason Vietnamese, Japanese, Koreans all hate the Han Chinese with a burning passion. It’s due to the grotesque racism spewed by the Han Chinese. Han Chinese are racist to any non-Han Chinese especially people of brown and black skin colour and other Asians. Get to know a few of them and it will hit you like a bolt of lightning. There are racists, and then there are the Han Chinese racists. I’m speaking from experience of talking to Han Chinese at University and at work.



Sit down Indian, you are not the voice which will convince us against our ally China.

Don't quote Hong Kong separatists to prove China wrong, they are CIA agents.

What is Modi doing to Indian Muslims and also Kashmiris (who are Pakistanis?) That is what genocide looks like.



Char said:


> Stupid like you can't understand the difference.



He is a typical racist anti-Pakistan poster. I have a strong feeling he is Indisn too.

We appreciate Chinese help on Kashmir, Palestine, Rohingya issues. Glad to see we are on the same point.



GiantPanda said:


> Indonesians murdered tens of thousands of ethnic Chinese in the 1960s and raped and murdered hundreds of Chinese girls in the 1990s.
> 
> The Chinese language was banned.
> 
> Unlike the Uighurs who slaughtered 100s of Chinese in terrorist attacks, the ethnic Chinese in Indonesia were not engaged in terrorism.
> 
> So should China ask Indonesia for an explanation?



Don't believe the words of Indian and Chinese expatriates in Malaysia and Indonesia, many complicated politics are at work there. They over exaggerate often.

I am sure @Indos can fill you in.

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## FedererExpress

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Sit down Indian, you are not the voice which will convince us against our ally China.
> 
> Don't quote Hong Kong separatists to prove China wrong, they are CIA agents.
> 
> What is Modi doing to Indian Muslims and also Kashmiris (who are Pakistanis?) That is what genocide looks like.
> 
> 
> 
> He is a typical racist anti-Pakistan poster. I have a strong feeling he is Indisn too.
> 
> We appreciate Chinese help on Kashmir, Palestine, Rohingya issues. Glad to see we are on the same point.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't believe the words of Indian and Chinese expatriates in Malaysia and Indonesia, many complicated politics are at work there. They over exaggerate often.
> 
> I am sure @Indos can fill you in.



Dear Communist China is perfect and can do no wrong. It’s a paradise.

Anyone that criticise the lovely Communists in China is an Indian, CIA or Anglo racists.

The little red book is perfect too.


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## KungFuLee

thewayoftheworld said:


> I disagree. I think AngloAmerican are the most racist. They have a superiority complex and think everyone is beneath them. They are also very violent. Anglo American society justified genocide through white supremacy. They have racist names for all nonwhite races. Very dehumanizing names. Chinese are so much tamer. Chinese doesn’t go around the world and promote their supremacy but Anglo white supremacy permeates through all their media.



The West are hardly racist, they are Affluencier and Opportunist, they sell their ideology simply because they can, and that would advance their interest and gain (Hence the Opportunist part), on the other hand, any country, if giving a chance would do the same thing, and that include China. This is because each country only look after its own interest. Nothing more, nothing less. So if given a chance to expand their influence, any country would get on that train as quick as you say "What"

That does not mean the West (And like you said Anglo-Saxon American, by the way, saying this itself is consider a racist and a racial profiling term) I will not argue there are racist people in the west, however, Western Society are build with Homogeneity in mind, or people would like to say "It's a melting pot" On the other hand, Chinese Society is build with Heterogeneity and Xenophobia, which mean they are build on one group of people. Now, some may say it (Xenophobia) is racist trait, I do not consider this as racist.

As for name, you think Chinese don't have racist name for Westerner? Again, people can be racist, but society cannot. Not in the west anyway.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Sit down Indian, you are not the voice which will convince us against our ally China.
> 
> Don't quote Hong Kong separatists to prove China wrong, they are CIA agents.
> 
> What is Modi doing to Indian Muslims and also Kashmiris (who are Pakistanis?) That is what genocide looks like.



Sit Down Pakistani, and you know about Hong Kong and China? Have you ever even been there? Can you point it out where it even is if I give you a map of China?

If you want people to mind their own business, you first need to do the same. Otherwise the word you are looking for is called "Hypocrite"

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

FedererExpress said:


> Dear Communist China is perfect and can do no wrong. It’s a paradise.
> 
> Anyone that criticise the lovely Communists in China is an Indian, CIA or Anglo racists.
> 
> The little red book is perfect too.



Get lost Indian. What alliance Pakistan and rest of Muslims choose is none of your concern.

You are our enemy and ally of our foe Israel, we don't value your opinion.

China is our friend and ally, their support allowed us to give you a black nose on Feb of this year. Whole of the West, Israel, and even Gulf are with you, but still you can't touch Pakistan.

Long live Pakistan China friendship. 



KungFuLee said:


> Sit Down Pakistani,



I am a Pakistani in a Pakistani forum, what is your business here?

I can say as I feel and believe. None of your concern, you are welcome to leave if you hate Pakistanis.

I would not be surprised if you are another India , you people never get sick of fake IDs.



KungFuLee said:


> you know about Hong Kong and China? Have you ever even been there? Can you point it out where it even is if I give you a map of China?
> 
> If you want people to mind their own business, you first need to do the same. Otherwise the word you are looking for is called "Hypocrite"



Just because British stole Hong Kong from China, and refused to give it back until recently, it doesn't make Hong Kong independent. Same for Taiwan, Chinese emperor fled from there after Communist take over and they have become a Western base against China. Both are part of China and are Chinese.

British did the same with Pakistan, they gave our land of Kashmir to murdering, rapist Indians who killed 100,000 and raped 10,000 Kashmiris since 1947.

We won't forget their double games and 100% support China who suffered the same.

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## grey boy 2

@WebMaster , @Horus , @waz , please take care of this multi-ID troll @jhungary now shamelessly acting as @KungFuLee @FedererExpress, i got banned for few yrs for the doing the same, justice should be serve as well sir, thankyou

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

thewayoftheworld said:


> I disagree. I think AngloAmerican are the most racist. They have a superiority complex and think everyone is beneath them. They are also very violent. Anglo American society justified genocide through white supremacy. They have racist names for all nonwhite races. Very dehumanizing names. Chinese are so much tamer. Chinese doesn’t go around the world and promote their supremacy but Anglo white supremacy permeates through all their media.



I have good Chinese friends whom I have made, they don't care that I am Muslim and Pakistani. How can I say otherwise? Chinese are decent people and are not as West portray them.

Westerners are far more racist than anyone. Maybe their pawns and supporters are more racist like Serb, Greek, Armenian, Israelis, Black Christian Africans, Neo-Nazis, etc.

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## KungFuLee

grey boy 2 said:


> @WebMaster , @Horus , @waz , please take care of this multi-ID troll @jhungary now shamelessly acting as @KungFuLee @FedererExpress, i got banned for few yrs for the doing the same, justice should be serve as well sir, thankyou



Again, who is this @jhungary guy, this is the 4th time I have been accused of being him. And I don't think I have interacted with this person as well anyway.

Maybe it is for the better, please do look it up and clear this out once and for all, thanks.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

grey boy 2 said:


> @WebMaster , @Horus , @waz , please take care of this multi-ID troll @jhungary now shamelessly acting as @KungFuLee @FedererExpress, i got banned for few yrs for the doing the same, justice should be serve as well sir, thankyou



I think also that @KungFuLee and @FedererExpress are the same Indian troll.

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## KungFuLee

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I think also that @KungFuLee and @FedererExpress are the same Indian troll.



Please, could administration clear this out once and for all?

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## FedererExpress

KungFuLee said:


> Again, who is this @jhungary guy, this is the 4th time I have been accused of being him. And I don't think I have interacted with this person as well anyway.
> 
> Maybe it is for the better, please do look it up and clear this out once and for all, thanks.



It’s got absolutely nothing to do with any of that. This is another attempt by the CCP trolls to silence dissenting voices on this forum. Unless you kiss the CCP’s backside, you will get accused and threatened.

This is to bully the moderators into censoring our voices. Communists love censorship. They censor everything in China and now export their censorship to the rest of the world.

Imagine if they do these things to us what kind of monstrosity they do to the Uyghurs and Tibetans.


----------



## Indos

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Don't believe the words of Indian and Chinese expatriates in Malaysia and Indonesia, many complicated politics are at work there. They over exaggerate often.
> 
> I am sure @Indos can fill you in.



Yup. Believing Indonesian murdered tens of thousand Chinese in 1960 and hundreds of Chinese in 1990's is similar like believing that there is concentration camp for 1 million Uigyur in Xin Jiang just like the Nazis do. 



GiantPanda said:


> Indonesians murdered tens of thousands of ethnic Chinese in the 1960s and raped and murdered hundreds of Chinese girls in the 1990s.
> 
> The Chinese language was banned.
> 
> Unlike the Uighurs who slaughtered 100s of Chinese in terrorist attacks, the ethnic Chinese in Indonesia were not engaged in terrorism.
> 
> So should China ask Indonesia for an explanation?



Those who were death in 1960's is because of civil war between Communist follower against Anti Communist follower. Most of the victims are Native Communist Indonesian and some Chinese Indonesian that also become Communist sympathizer. The target is not Chinese Indonesian. 

While in Mei 1998 that only happen within 3 days the riots are only targeting Chinese Indonesian businesses since Chinese Indonesian businesses are perceived at that time as Soeharto backer and get huge economic advantage during his rule. The riots are also happened because of the government action who killed university demonstrators in Trisakti university, the ones who burned the building are merely criminals. 

The death victim are all with burned body who are the ones trapped in shopping centers trying to steal goods sold there. Most of them are natives. You can check into TGPF result in Wikipedia. That is an independent investigation set up after Soeharto resign. The chairman of the investigation is Marzuki Darusman who is respected world wide and also become the chairman of UN fact finding committe on Rohingya recently.

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## FedererExpress

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212004624988807168

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## lonelyman

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I think also that @KungFuLee and @FedererExpress are the same Indian troll.



we can smell this RSS scumbag stinky curry small 500 miles away

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## FedererExpress

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212423379891957760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212423380823097345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212427467991982085

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## KungFuLee

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I am a Pakistani in a Pakistani forum, what is your business here?
> 
> I can say as I feel and believe. None of your concern, you are welcome to leave if you hate Pakistanis.
> 
> I would not be surprised if you are another India , you people never get sick of fake IDs.



Then what's the Chinese business here? What's the Indian business here? What the Indonesia business here? If this is a Pakistan Forum and it is none of any one other than Pakistani business here, should the moderation team ban all other nationality and move on?

This post is not about Pakistan, nor do I give anything for Pakistan.

You said he is an Indian so he can't reply to Muslim issue? Right? I specifically quote you the things you said about Hong Kong and China. So, I want to know, are you Chinese or Hong Konger? If not, how are you "Qualify" to comment on Hong Kong and China issue?

I am using your logic to put into the question. If he should shut up regarding Muslim issue, you should shut up about Hong Kong issue.

And using your logic again. I can say what I believe, and I believe you should act what you preach, you are welcome to leave if you hate what I said.



> Just because British stole Hong Kong from China, and refused to give it back until recently, it doesn't make Hong Kong independent. Same for Taiwan, Chinese emperor fled from there after Communist take over and they have become a Western base against China. Both are part of China and are Chinese.
> 
> British did the same with Pakistan, they gave our land of Kashmir to murdering, rapist Indians who killed 100,000 and raped 10,000 Kashmiris since 1947.
> 
> We won't forget their double games and 100% support China who suffered the same.



Muwahhhaaaa. I don't know where to begin.

The Brits "Stole" Hong Kong? If they did stole Hong Kong, why would they "Return" it.

Nobody said Hong Kong are independent. You want to think a lot of Hong Konger think like that is your business, but as I said, you know NOTHING other than the Chinese Media told you, you know nothing about what's actually happening on the ground. Again, can you even point out where Hong Kong is on a Map?

And LOL, the last Chinese "Emperor" ceased to exist in around 1905 in functionality and was overthrown by Sun Yet-Sen led (not him personally) republic of China government (Yes, the government that in charge of Taiwan now) in 1911 with Xinhai Revolution. Sun was and still is the "Forefather" of modern day China, and it was celebrated in both Taiwan and China. So you are saying The last Emperor of China fled to a place where the people who oust him govern? I think by definition, that is not "Fleeing".

The Emperor of China did not "fled" to Taiwan, he was in house arrest in the Forbidden Palace before fled to Japan and more precisely "Manchuria". As I said, if you know nothing about China or Chinese history, please refrain from commenting. It will only make you look stupid. I mean can you even name that "Emperor"? He have a name you know.

And what's have Indian kill and rape Kashmiris have to do with Hong Kong and China? Did Hong Kong give the order to the Indian? Or am I missing something?



FedererExpress said:


> It’s got absolutely nothing to do with any of that. This is another attempt by the CCP trolls to silence dissenting voices on this forum. Unless you kiss the CCP’s backside, you will get accused and threatened.
> 
> This is to bully the moderators into censoring our voices. Communists love censorship. They censor everything in China and now export their censorship to the rest of the world.
> 
> Imagine if they do these things to us what kind of monstrosity they do to the Uyghurs and Tibetans.



That is why most Hong Konger don't want to be like them. We get a bit angry when people call us "Chinese" much like a you try to call a Scot "English"

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## katarabhumi

GiantPanda said:


> Indonesians murdered tens of thousands of ethnic Chinese in the 1960s and raped and murdered hundreds of Chinese girls in the 1990s.
> 
> The Chinese language was banned.
> 
> Unlike the Uighurs who slaughtered 100s of Chinese in terrorist attacks, the ethnic Chinese in Indonesia were not engaged in terrorism.
> 
> So should China ask Indonesia for an explanation?



Tens of thousands? Who filled you with that fantasy?

.

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## Char

KungFuLee said:


> Then what's the Chinese business here? What's the Indian business here? What the Indonesia business here? If this is a Pakistan Forum and it is none of any one other than Pakistani business here, should the moderation team ban all other nationality and move on?
> 
> This post is not about Pakistan, nor do I give anything for Pakistan.
> 
> You said he is an Indian so he can't reply to Muslim issue? Right? I specifically quote you the things you said about Hong Kong and China. So, I want to know, are you Chinese or Hong Konger? If not, how are you "Qualify" to comment on Hong Kong and China issue?
> 
> I am using your logic to put into the question. If he should shut up regarding Muslim issue, you should shut up about Hong Kong issue.
> 
> And using your logic again. I can say what I believe, and I believe you should act what you preach, you are welcome to leave if you hate what I said.
> 
> 
> 
> Muwahhhaaaa. I don't know where to begin.
> 
> The Brits "Stole" Hong Kong? If they did stole Hong Kong, why would they "Return" it.
> 
> Nobody said Hong Kong are independent. You want to think a lot of Hong Konger think like that is your business, but as I said, you know NOTHING other than the Chinese Media told you, you know nothing about what's actually happening on the ground. Again, can you even point out where Hong Kong is on a Map?
> 
> And LOL, the last Chinese "Emperor" ceased to exist in around 1905 in functionality and was overthrown by Sun Yet-Sen led (not him personally) republic of China government (Yes, the government that in charge of Taiwan now) in 1911 with Xinhai Revolution. Sun was and still is the "Forefather" of modern day China, and it was celebrated in both Taiwan and China. So you are saying The last Emperor of China fled to a place where the people who oust him govern? I think by definition, that is not "Fleeing".
> 
> The Emperor of China did not "fled" to Taiwan, he was in house arrest in the Forbidden Palace before fled to Japan and more precisely "Manchuria". As I said, if you know nothing about China or Chinese history, please refrain from commenting. It will only make you look stupid. I mean can you even name that "Emperor"? He have a name you know.
> 
> And what's have Indian kill and rape Kashmiris have to do with Hong Kong and China? Did Hong Kong give the order to the Indian? Or am I missing something?
> 
> 
> 
> That is why most Hong Konger don't want to be like them. We get a bit angry when people call us "Chinese" much like a you try to call a Scot "English"



I'm curious where will you get help when you are in trouble overseas.

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## KungFuLee

Char said:


> I'm curious where will you get help when you are in trouble overseas.



Why would I get into trouble overseas? And if so, I can tell you this as a law graduate, no one can actually help you.

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## aziqbal

China’s reply is so predictable 

no point in even trying to talk to them 

best thing is openly condemn and boy cott them and support HK and Taiwan

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## Indos

aziqbal said:


> China’s reply is so predictable
> 
> no point in even trying to talk to them
> 
> best thing is openly condemn and boy cott them and support HK and Taiwan



Indonesian foreign minister not only ask Chinese foreign minister but also tell him about the importance of freedom of religion. It is in my opinion is some sort of diplomatic pressure. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Retno said she met with her Chinese counterpart Wang Yi on Dec. 16 and Chinese Ambassador for Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday.

“We have been communicating continuously with the Chinese government to express and request information regarding the situation,” Retno said after attending a meeting at the Coordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs’ compound in Central Jakarta.

She said Indonesia is actively engaging diplomatic measures on the issue.

*“We had a pretty long talk with the [Chinese] foreign minister,* *and we stressed about the importance of freedom of religion*. So, it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record,” Retno said.

https://jakartaglobe.id/news/indonesia-is-not-silent-on-uighur-foreign-minister

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## Beast

Indos said:


> Indonesian foreign minister not only ask Chinese foreign minister but also tell him about the importance of freedom of religion. It is in my opinion is some sort of diplomatic pressure.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Retno said she met with her Chinese counterpart Wang Yi on Dec. 16 and Chinese Ambassador for Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday.
> 
> “We have been communicating continuously with the Chinese government to express and request information regarding the situation,” Retno said after attending a meeting at the Coordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs’ compound in Central Jakarta.
> 
> She said Indonesia is actively engaging diplomatic measures on the issue.
> 
> *“We had a pretty long talk with the [Chinese] foreign minister,* *and we stressed about the importance of freedom of religion*. So, it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record,” Retno said.
> 
> https://jakartaglobe.id/news/indonesia-is-not-silent-on-uighur-foreign-minister


Looks like this dialogue is more or show only.... Look how they phased (So ,it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record), to give impression they pressed Chinese for anything. Indos, he can brag hard as if Indonesia really do anything to change China way of dealing in xinjiang. Fact is your government is more concern about dealing with west Papua than really asking China about xinjiang. China stance is clear. We will deal hard with extremism and rehabilitation practice for terrorist will still continue. I am sure Indonesia will understand when they are suffering from unrest from west Papua. I will not be surprised Indonesian government even consult Chinese government how to deal with separatist and extremism.

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## Beast

https://www.nst.com.my/opinion/colu...ina-always-protects-freedom-religious-beliefs

EVER since last year, there has been an unusual amount of hype around Xinjiang issues on the western media.

New York Times, CNN and others in the gang have spared no effort in making up horrifying headlines like “China detaining Muslims in vast numbers”, “Millions sent to concentration camp by the government”, “Largest human rights crisis since the 1990s”, etc.

Sensationalism aside, one may wonder: how many of these stories are based on facts? How many of them are not telling half-truths? In this regard, today I want to share something that western media never told you.

The western media claimed that Muslims are being tortured. They claimed that China is cleansing its citizens of Muslim religion and culture.

However, they didn't tell you that the Chinese government has always been protecting freedom of religious belief and safeguarding the legal rights and interests of minorities, strictly prohibiting any discrimination and oppression against the latter.

There are 200 million religious believers in China, and 20 million of them are Muslims, among which Hui and Uighur Muslims make up the majority.

In Kuala Lumpur, many halal noodle restaurants are run by Chinese Hui Muslim. In Xinjiang, halal restaurants are everywhere. Not only the number of halal restaurants far surpasses non-halal ones, but also their popularity.

In Xinjiang, there are now over 28,000 religious sites and close to 30,000 clerical personnel.

Every 530 Muslims in Xinjiang have a mosque on average, which is higher than many Muslim countries such as Turkey.

What minorities in China like Uighur are facing is not torture, but policies and social welfares far more favourable than what their Han brethren are enjoying.

In order to raise the ratio of minorities’ population, Uighurs and other minorities were exempted from the One Child Policy for 10 years, and are still enjoying reasonably relaxed policies.

Some minority farmers and herdsmen are allowed to raise up to four children. In terms of education, while the general practice in China is nine-year compulsory education, Xinjiang is the first province to practice15 year compulsory education.

Every year millions of Chinese high school students compete in Gaokao, or national college entrance examination, which is probably one of the most crucial moments in their lives.

Chances are that minority students from Xinjiang and other provinces are awarded with 50 to 60 extra points, meaning they will be well ahead of Han students in terms of ranking by a large margin of several hundred thousands.

In China, where the area of arable land per person is less than one-third of the world average, where land rents in major cities are almost sky-high, Muslims still keep their religious burial tradition, whereas Han people are to be cremated after death.

The western media claimed that China is oppressing Uighurs and other minorities in the name of counter-terrorism and counter-extremism.

However they didn't tell you that Xinjiang, especially its southern parts, has long been the target of terrorism and extremism infiltration from terrorist organisations such as East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) since 1990s.

These foreign organizations demanded fund support from local families, and “encouraged” their children to go to illegal religious institutes instead of regular schools, where they indoctrinated the children with extremist ideologies. Some separatists blatantly called for the “independence” of Xinjiang and the establishment of a so-called ecclesiastical “East Turkestan”.

From 1990 to 2016, the extremists, terrorists and separatists have committed thousands of terrorist attacks in all parts of Xinjiang, resulting in property damage beyond estimation, and huge casualties of both civilians and police officers.

The darkest day in Xinjiang’s recent history came on July 5, 2009, when hundreds of Uighur extremists outright rioted and rampaged on the streets of Urumqi and assaulted defenseless civilians.

At the end of the day, 197 were killed and m

ore than 1,700 were injured. This truly merciless attack was condemned by Juma Tahir, the Imam of Id Kah Mosque, as an organised, premediated violent attack perpetrated by separatists in the name of religion.

Regrettably, Imam Juma Tahir was assassinated 5 years later by three extremists outside the mosque after the morning Fajr prayer, and the sole reason for his death was because he was an outspoken adversary of extremism and terrorism.

It was in a grim situation like this that the central government and government of Xinjiang Autonomous Region decided to take measures to crackdown on extremism and terrorism, to prevent their expansion preemptively, and to eliminate them from the root.

Thanks to these measures, Xinjiang, once haunted by the dread of terrorism, has not seen a single case of terrorist attack for three years. People now feel safe and secure day and night, both inside and outside their homes. In 2018, tourism in Xinjiang has surged significantly.

A total of 150 million tourists had visited Xinjiang, recording a 40 percent year-to-year increase. Among those tourists, 2.4 million of them were foreign tourists, increasing 10 percent.

People who have been to Xinjiang are all in awe of its tranquility, beauty and prosperity.The western media claimed that the vocational education and training centres are so-called “concentration camps”, where Muslims are cruelly restrained and “brainwashed”.

However, they didn't tell you that the training centres are just like ordinary boarding schools. Students pursue their studies during the day.

They have every means of communication. They can return home on weekends, and they can call a day-off when they need to. Through these training programmes, students acquire knowledges, vocational skills and means for making a living.

After graduation, most of them would successfully reintegrate into the society, get a job, start a business and ultimately, start a new life. In fact, some students are sent to the training centres by their families just for them to get rid of extremist ideologies and return to a normal life.

When the Malaysian delegation visited one of the training centres, a student who majored in fashion designing had revealed that she voluntarily asked for 3 more months of training in order to better grasp the skill.

The western media claimed that at the United Nations General Assembly meeting, 23 countries including the United States had pointed their fingers at China on Xinjiang issues.

However they didn't tell you that most of these 23 countries above-mentioned were western countries or allies of the US.

There was not a single Muslim country, not a single developing country among them.

The western media also won’t tell you that during the exact same meeting, 66 countries, through joint or separate statements, have complimented China’s great human rights progress and its policies in Xinjiang, while at the same time objecting to others meddling with China’s internal affairs.

Instead of a single bloc, these countries come from all parts of the world and almost 30 of them are Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Egypt.

Recently the western media like New York Times have made some lengthy stories about what they believe to be the “internal documents” of the Chinese government on Xinjiang. However, what they are really doing is bait-and-switch, substituting false claims for the truth. For example, they take the liberty to use the term “no-mercy” on all Uighurs, which is in fact a term only for terrorists.

And they didn't tell you that since 2015, the Chinese government has published seven white papers, introducing in full detail the ethnicity and religion policies, counter-terrorism measures and human rights progresses in Xinjiang.

The western media have turned a blind eye on these positive and constructive information, while obstinately chasing after falsehoods and partial-truths. It really makes us wonder, whether the western media truly cares about Muslims in Xinjiang, or are they just exploiting the Xinjiang issue, out of some hidden

agendas, as means to demonise China?

After the Sept 11 attacks, the US started a massive campaign to beat down terrorism and labelled itself as a global counter-terrorism leader.

Curiously enough, when facing the terrorist attacks in Xinjiang, the U.S. never hesitated a second to offer its praises, euphemistically calling the attacks “the beginning of democratisation in China”. The US even goes to the length of colluding with ETIM by providing the latter with fund and moral supports.

We just have to ponder, what ominous intents are really hiding behind this good show of double standard at its finest. A proverb in China goes like “three liars makes a tiger”, which means that a wide spread lie may even become the truth for some people.

For the western countries who are in full control of a majority of the news agencies and social media such as Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, it is just a piece of cake for them to scandalize and defame a country to fulfil their political agenda.

As a fast growing developing country, China is no stranger to the suppression and impedance from certain big powers.

In order to curb China’s development, they resort to all kinds of excuses and pretenses such as ethnicity, religion, human rights, democracy and freedom, disregard all facts and truth, and keeps intervening in China’s internal affairs.

Hong Kong and Xinjiang issue are no exception. Beneath these high walls built by their gigantic propaganda machine, many facts and truths may be buried deep, waiting to be discovered by clever and adept readers.

To let the truth be known, since the end of 2018, the Chinese side has invited more than one thousand foreign delegates to visit Xinjiang, including Malaysian officials, journalists and Muslim groups.

The delegates have seen with their own eyes the social economic development and the real situation in Xinjiang, including the training centres. Lots of delegates have admitted that Xinjiang is anything but what the western media claimed.

Datuk Haji Mohamad Nordin bin Ibrahim, Director General of JAKIM, has written in Sinar what he has seen, that the Chinese government respects the freedom of religious belief of Uighurs in Xinjiang, protecting in full measure their language, customs and cultural heritages.

The ethnic communities in Xinjiang care about the lives of ethnic minorities and it is a common thing for minorities to help and support each other.

Mainstream media in Indonesia like Metro TV and Media Indonesia, after their visit to Xinjiang, have expressed their frank opinions that Xinjiang pays high attention in cultivating religious understandings among believers and in training cleric personnel.

China is in no way an anti-Islam country, and measures taken by Xinjiang government in preventing and battling terrorism and extremism should be supported.

The wise do not buy rumours, as more and more people are giving their recognitions to China’s policies on ethnic minorities and religions that are suitable to our national conditions.

China’s efforts in preventing and combating extremism and terrorism are also gaining more endorsement. In the future, we are willing to invite more foreign friends, including Malaysia, to visit Xinjiang.

I hope more of you can find by your own eyes the tireless efforts by the Chinese government to make Xinjiang a land of peace, harmony, stability and development.

I hope more of you can find in Xinjiang those truths that the western media have never intended to tell you.



_The writer is China's ambassador to Malaysia. The views expressed in this article are the author’s own and do not necessarily reflect those of the New Straits Times._

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## Char

KungFuLee said:


> Why would I get into trouble overseas? And if so, I can tell you this as a law graduate, no one can actually help you.



Good luck!

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## FedererExpress

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212571772593160192

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## Indos

Beast said:


> Looks like this dialogue is more or show only.... Look how they phased (So ,it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record), to give impression they pressed Chinese for anything. Indos, he can brag hard as if Indonesia really do anything to change China way of dealing in xinjiang. Fact is your government is more concern about dealing with west Papua than really asking China about xinjiang. China stance is clear. We will deal hard with extremism and rehabilitation practice for terrorist will still continue. I am sure Indonesia will understand when they are suffering from unrest from west Papua. I will not be surprised Indonesian government even consult Chinese government how to deal with separatist and extremism.



By asking and stressing about the important of freedom of religion directly to Chinese foreign minister means that Indonesian government give Chinese government some sort of political pressure. This action also show some kind of opposition coming from biggest Muslim majority country about China policy on Uigyur. Xi Jinping may not back down his policy after this diplomatic action, but at least some Chinese officials in China leadership (Politburo) who dont agree with Xi Jinping measure on that region can get more reason to voice their opposition on Xi handling on Xinjiang by (maybe) telling that Indonesian action can lead other Muslim nations to do the same and create a snow ball in the end that can further isolate China in the Muslim world. 

Information coming from our delegation who visited the camp are not good. They told press that the people who are forced to do vocational training there are not terrorist, but Uigyur people who have strong Islamic commitment. So there is perception in here that China believe that Uigyur people with strong Islamic commitment have big potency to do terrorist action. This can be regarded as an attack on Islam belief. As Muslim are brothers to one another, we cannot just be silent. Those people who are locked on the camp also cannot pray 5 times daily and there is no assurance whether food which is served on the camp are Halal. If Muslim are silent on this, there is possibility that event Hui and Kazak community will be targeted as well in the future. 

It is also true that our administration try to please Islamist segment in our society that has criticized Chinese excessive treatment on Uigyur people. Their action has lead to growing anti China sentiment among Muslim Indonesian, particularly the conservative group. The campaign is also spread in Facebook and WhatsApp, not only traditional media like online news and newspaper. 

As I mentioned earlier, Jokowi comes from secular nationalist party (PDI-P), so he doesnt have strong urge to pressure China over XinJiang issue, but nevertheless, his coalition also need Muslim support and his Vice President also comes from Islamist organization (MUI/Indonesia Ulama Council).

If 2024 election is won by Islamist and Nationalist Religious coalition, I predict more action will be taken by our foreign minister office. Some concrete measure like lobbying on OIC to press China further could be taken. But if China somehow change their policy in Xin Jiang, I believe more positive view about China will be prevail in Muslim world.

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## lonelyman

Indos said:


> Indonesian foreign minister not only ask Chinese foreign minister but also tell him about the importance of freedom of religion. It is in my opinion is some sort of diplomatic pressure.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Retno said she met with her Chinese counterpart Wang Yi on Dec. 16 and Chinese Ambassador for Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday.
> 
> “We have been communicating continuously with the Chinese government to express and request information regarding the situation,” Retno said after attending a meeting at the Coordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs’ compound in Central Jakarta.
> 
> She said Indonesia is actively engaging diplomatic measures on the issue.
> 
> *“We had a pretty long talk with the [Chinese] foreign minister,* *and we stressed about the importance of freedom of religion*. So, it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record,” Retno said.
> 
> https://jakartaglobe.id/news/indonesia-is-not-silent-on-uighur-foreign-minister



ridiculous, are you dumb and high? what kind of pressure you can give to China? consider yourself lucky because we don't interfere in other people's affairs



aziqbal said:


> China’s reply is so predictable
> 
> no point in even trying to talk to them
> 
> best thing is openly condemn and boy cott them and support HK and Taiwan



why don't you do it then? or best strap yourself a bomb and come to xinjiang to fight for Uhigurs, instead of a keyboard warrior



Char said:


> I'm curious where will you get help when you are in trouble overseas.



he is false flagger asan

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## Beast

Indos said:


> By asking and stressing about the important of freedom of religion directly to Chinese foreign minister means that Indonesian government give Chinese government some sort of political pressure. This action also show some kind of opposition coming from biggest Muslim majority country about China policy on Uigyur. Xi Jinping may not back down his policy after this diplomatic action, but at least some Chinese officials in China leadership (Politburo) who dont agree with Xi Jinping measure on that region can get more reason to voice their opposition on Xi handling on Xinjiang by (maybe) telling that Indonesian action can lead other Muslim nations to do the same and create a snow ball in the end that can further isolate China in the Muslim world.
> 
> Information coming from our delegation who visited the camp are not good. They told press that the people who are forced to do vocational training there are not terrorist, but Uigyur people who have strong Islamic commitment. So there is perception in here that China believe that Uigyur people with strong Islamic commitment have big potency to do terrorist action. This can be regarded as an attack on Islam belief. As Muslim are brothers to one another, we cannot just be silent. Those people who are locked on the camp also cannot pray 5 times daily and there is no assurance whether food which is served on the camp are Halal. If Muslim are silent on this, there is possibility that event Hui and Kazak community will be targeted as well in the future.
> 
> It is also true that our administration try to please Islamist segment in our society that has criticized Chinese excessive treatment on Uigyur people. Their action has lead to growing anti China sentiment among Muslim Indonesian, particularly the conservative group. The campaign is also spread in Facebook and WhatsApp, not only traditional media like online news and newspaper.
> 
> As I mentioned earlier, Jokowi comes from secular nationalist party (PDI-P), so he doesnt have strong urge to pressure China over XinJiang issue, but nevertheless, his coalition also need Muslim support and his Vice President also comes from Islamist organization (MUI/Indonesia Ulama Council).
> 
> If 2024 election is won by Islamist and Nationalist Religious coalition, I predict more action will be taken by our foreign minister office. Some concrete measure like lobbying on OIC to press China further could be taken. But if China somehow change their policy in Xin Jiang, I believe more positive view about China will be prevail in Muslim world.


I think you are misunderstood. What kind of pressure Indonesia apply on China? Did Indonesia threaten to expel China embassy? Or Indonesia threaten any kind of economic sanction against the Chinese? What is wrong with dialogue talking about religion protection? As if China is not doing that all along.. has Indonesia foreign minister indeed mentioned China is torturing muslim and reprimand the China foreign ambassador? More like more of a exhange of dialogue and nothing more...

And you are naive Chinese officer will question President Xi just becos Indonesia tells them? Chinese leadership is top down and Chinese top leadership has the vision and brain. The officer choosen to serve with CPC shares the same vision and future of how China shall shape.

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## lonelyman

Beast said:


> I think you are misunderstood. What kind of pressure Indonesia apply on China? Did Indonesia threaten to expel China embassy? Or Indonesia threaten any kind of economic sanction against the Chinese? What is wrong with dialogue talking about religion protection? As if China is not doing that all along.. has Indonesia foreign minister indeed mentioned China is torturing muslim and reprimand the China foreign ambassador? More like more of a exhange of dialogue and nothing more...
> 
> And you are naive Chinese officer will question President Xi just becos Indonesia tells them? Chinese leadership is top down and Chinese top leadership has the vision and brain. The officer choosen to serve with CPC shares the same vision and future of how China shall shape.



they are blind western media followers, and typical schizophrenic - 

when bad press about themselves, they complain unfair reporting, but when it's about China or Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, they blindly follow

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## FedererExpress

The totalitarian Communist dictatorship in China thinks they deserve to be treated fairly in the media. A totalitarian Communist dictatorship should never be be treated fairly. Communism is pure evil. Pure evil does not get fairness.

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## 925boy

GiantPanda said:


> Indonesians murdered tens of thousands of ethnic Chinese in the 1960s and raped and murdered hundreds of Chinese girls in the 1990s.
> 
> The Chinese language was banned.
> 
> Unlike the Uighurs who slaughtered 100s of Chinese in terrorist attacks, the ethnic Chinese in Indonesia were not engaged in terrorism.
> 
> So should China ask Indonesia for an explanation?


Thats a completely different subject from whats being discussed here. you are using 2 wrongs make a right logic, which is not logical, its a fallacy. lets face the topic at hand -China abusing its Uighur minorities.


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## 925boy

Char said:


> Stupid like you can't understand the difference.


I guess i am correct then.


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## KungFuLee

Char said:


> Good luck!



What luck have got to do with this? 

There are only 2 ways a person can get into trouble in a foreign place. You either get into Legal Trouble or Natural Disaster.

If it was Legal Trouble, there are pretty much nothing anyone can do, you will not get released just because you are ABC Citizens and not the host nations citizens. Any consulate can at best check up on you and make sure you are okay, and maybe let your family back home know, that is it, Sovereign power does not include judiciary and legal representation, you cannot even ask the consulate to find you a lawyer as that was outside their jurisdction

If it was a Natural Disaster like bush fire and volcano eruption like the NZ White Island some week ago, that mean it affect anyone, not just you, and there will be evacuation team from all over the world. So you don't just depend on your host nation or the country where you are from? If I am a Hong Konger, would Australian or Malaysian SAR team not evacuate me because I am not Australian or Malaysian? And I can only goes with the Chinese team? And if they can't get to me in time, should I just die? lol

So, yes, Luck have nothing to do with it. If SHTF, you are either doom or get pickup by anyone anyway.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

FedererExpress said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212004624988807168



Washington post writer (CIA mouthpiece) quoting NYT (another CIA mouthpiece.) Inconclusive.



FedererExpress said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212423379891957760
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212423380823097345
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212427467991982085



A Washington based "Uyghur" organization, and you think its unbiased?



KungFuLee said:


> Then what's the Chinese business here? What's the Indian business here? What the Indonesia business here? If this is a Pakistan Forum and it is none of any one other than Pakistani business here, should the moderation team ban all other nationality and move on?
> 
> This post is not about Pakistan, nor do I give anything for Pakistan.
> 
> You said he is an Indian so he can't reply to Muslim issue? Right? I specifically quote you the things you said about Hong Kong and China. So, I want to know, are you Chinese or Hong Konger? If not, how are you "Qualify" to comment on Hong Kong and China issue?
> 
> I am using your logic to put into the question. If he should shut up regarding Muslim issue, you should shut up about Hong Kong issue.
> 
> And using your logic again. I can say what I believe, and I believe you should act what you preach, you are welcome to leave if you hate what I said.



You Indians have an agenda, therefore any and all statements by your lot should be taken with a hefty grain of salt.

Modi has totally ruined your country and culture, fix yourselves first before criticizing others. You are waging actual genocide on Muslims and they are out in the streets.



aziqbal said:


> China’s reply is so predictable
> 
> no point in even trying to talk to them
> 
> best thing is openly condemn and boy cott them and support HK and Taiwan



We have neither ties nor any relations with Taiwan or Hong Kong separatists.

Pakistan is fully a backer of China, whether you like it or not, it won't change.



Beast said:


> Looks like this dialogue is more or show only.... Look how they phased (So ,it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record), to give impression they pressed Chinese for anything. Indos, he can brag hard as if Indonesia really do anything to change China way of dealing in xinjiang. Fact is your government is more concern about dealing with west Papua than really asking China about xinjiang. China stance is clear. We will deal hard with extremism and rehabilitation practice for terrorist will still continue. I am sure Indonesia will understand when they are suffering from unrest from west Papua. I will not be surprised Indonesian government even consult Chinese government how to deal with separatist and extremism.



Indonesia has every right to ask questions, as does any Muslim nation. Uyghurs are our brothers and sisters and we would like to know about the ground reality in Xinjiang.

Better for you to listen to what Indonesia is saying and allay the fears of 2 billion Muslims around the world who was watching than act arrogant.

Don't be like US, which shot itself in the foot and is now incapable of winning any war in the Muslim world due to it's bad reputation.

I don't totally believe the Western reports of 'oppression' of Uyghurs, because I know these people are perpetual liars. However, China needs to get better at dismissing these claims and fighting back ferociously (like Russia has done.)

It is easy to win the narrative in this case as historically China has been a friend and economic partner of Muslims, and never an enemy.

We don't have the same historical anger with China as we do with US, Russia, Israel, or Hindus.

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## KungFuLee

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> You Indians have an agenda, therefore any and all statements by your lot should be taken with a hefty grain of salt.
> 
> Modi has totally ruined your country and culture, fix yourselves first before criticizing others. You are waging actual genocide on Muslims and they are out in the streets.



lol, first of all, set aside whether or not I am Indian (I don't think you will believe me if I said I wasn't, but that is not the point here) tell me one person who live in this world DID NOT HAVE an agenda? 

If you think Chinese or Pakistani did not have any agenda, then either you are too naïve or too stupid to understand modern day politics. The only difference is, you assume Chinese agenda are inline with yours. Which is Pakistani. 

And if you also believe that, again, you are too stupid and naïve to think. China's agenda is always about China. Right now because they have the same opponent to your Pakistan, they share the same agenda with you. But if that was out of the equation, and you become too much of a trouble, Chinese will drop you like a hot rock. History show they did that to Soviet Russia, Vietnam and North Korea, so what make you think they won't drop you, when you are the least common culturally, racially and geopolitically with the Chinese (At least those I mentioned before are all communist country and they are in Asia).

Plus, you still have not yet able to response to any one of my question before. 

Can you point out where Hong Kong is when I give you a map?
Can you tell me the name of the last Emperor of Qing?


----------



## FedererExpress

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Washington post writer (CIA mouthpiece) quoting NYT (another CIA mouthpiece.) Inconclusive.
> 
> 
> 
> A Washington based "Uyghur" organization, and you think its unbiased?
> 
> 
> 
> You Indians have an agenda, therefore any and all statements by your lot should be taken with a hefty grain of salt.
> 
> Modi has totally ruined your country and culture, fix yourselves first before criticizing others. You are waging actual genocide on Muslims and they are out in the streets.
> 
> 
> 
> We have neither ties nor any relations with Taiwan or Hong Kong separatists.
> 
> Pakistan is fully a backer of China, whether you like it or not, it won't change.
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesia has every right to ask questions, as does any Muslim nation. Uyghurs are our brothers and sisters and we would like to know about the ground reality in Xinjiang.
> 
> Better for you to listen to what Indonesia is saying and allay the fears of 2 billion Muslims around the world who was watching than act arrogant.
> 
> Don't be like US, which shot itself in the foot and is now incapable of winning any war in the Muslim world due to it's bad reputation.
> 
> I don't totally believe the Western reports of 'oppression' of Uyghurs, because I know these people are perpetual liars. However, China needs to get better at dismissing these claims and fighting back ferociously (like Russia has done.)
> 
> It is easy to win the narrative in this case as historically China has been a friend and economic partner of Muslims, and never an enemy.
> 
> We don't have the same historical anger with China as we do with US, Russia, Israel, or Hindus.



Everything is CIA to this bloke

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

KungFuLee said:


> lol, first of all, set aside whether or not I am Indian (I don't think you will believe me if I said I wasn't, but that is not the point here) tell me one person who live in this world DID NOT HAVE an agenda?
> 
> If you think Chinese or Pakistani did not have any agenda, then either you are too naïve or too stupid to understand modern day politics. The only difference is, you assume Chinese agenda are inline with yours. Which is Pakistani.
> 
> And if you also believe that, again, you are too stupid and naïve to think. China's agenda is always about China. Right now because they have the same opponent to your Pakistan, they share the same agenda with you. But if that was out of the equation, and you become too much of a trouble, Chinese will drop you like a hot rock. History show they did that to Soviet Russia, Vietnam and North Korea, so what make you think they won't drop you, when you are the least common culturally, racially and geopolitically with the Chinese (At least those I mentioned before are all communist country and they are in Asia).
> 
> Plus, you still have not yet able to response to any one of my question before.
> 
> Can you point out where Hong Kong is when I give you a map?
> Can you tell me the name of the last Emperor of Qing?



Give your 'China is evilz' rant a rest, Indian. I don't give a sparkling glass of cow urine about what you think.



FedererExpress said:


> Everything is CIA to this bloke



American media is just as bought as any other place. We learned about it when Afghanistan and Iraq were invaded and destroyed on lies.

I see that you use both IDs to post at the same time. Typical Indian troll.

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## KungFuLee

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Give your 'China is evilz' rant a rest, Indian. I don't give a sparkling glass of cow urine about what you think.



lol, quite typical when a person losing an argument, he or she would say two things.

Say stuff like "I don't care about that" and ;
Started personal insult

If you don't care about what I think, why you bother to "Challenge" my point in the first place? You must have at least care enough to type 4 post over 2 days, and that's by definition, not "Not Caring"

And once you lost an argument, it's just natural to resort to personal insult. That's because you are frustrated.

You can insult me all you want, that does not mean you are right. And I actually take pride on your insult, because that mean you are losing the argument.

LOL



FedererExpress said:


> Everything is CIA to this bloke



Strangely, he claim to be residing in America.

So I don't know what you call a person who WILLINGLY (Assume he is not getting online in immigration detention), to a country he think oppress his kind in English. There is a Chinese word for it call "Running Dog". Yes, everything is a conspiracy in the US, yet he live (or at least he claim) there.

Ain't it ironic?

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## Minho

KungFuLee said:


> lol, quite typical when a person losing an argument, he or she would say two things.
> 
> Say stuff like "I don't care about that" and ;
> Started personal insult
> 
> If you don't care about what I think, why you bother to "Challenge" my point in the first place? You must have at least care enough to type 4 post over 2 days, and that's by definition, not "Not Caring"
> 
> And once you lost an argument, it's just natural to resort to personal insult. That's because you are frustrated.
> 
> You can insult me all you want, that does not mean you are right. And I actually take pride on your insult, because that mean you are losing the argument.
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Strangely, he claim to be residing in America.
> 
> So I don't know what you call a person who WILLINGLY (Assume he is not getting online in immigration detention), to a country he think oppress his kind in English. There is a Chinese word for it call "Running Dog". Yes, everything is a conspiracy in the US, yet he live (or at least he claim) there.
> 
> Ain't it ironic?


People like him are practically begging to get put on an FBI watchlist


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## KungFuLee

Minho said:


> People like him are practically begging to get put on an FBI watchlist



people like him are begging to put in an asylum

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## FedererExpress

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212758951999279106


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## mike2000 is back

Beast said:


> Looks like this dialogue is more or show only.... Look how they phased (So ,it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record), to give impression they pressed Chinese for anything. Indos, he can brag hard as if Indonesia really do anything to change China way of dealing in xinjiang. Fact is your government is more concern about dealing with west Papua than really asking China about xinjiang. China stance is clear. We will deal hard with extremism and rehabilitation practice for terrorist will still continue. I am sure Indonesia will understand when they are suffering from unrest from west Papua. I will not be surprised Indonesian government even consult Chinese government how to deal with separatist and extremism.


Actually West Papua isn't a religious issue per se. More like they merely want their freedom and independence which they have been fighting for decades. So not solely a religious issue


----------



## Baybars Han

Dude calm down, in history China was grinded and pissed over, by Göktürks, Mongols, Japanese etc and Turks and Uyghurs still survived any Chinese attempt. You little cockroaches are going beyond your means these days. History has points, soon it will come when we will disintegrate you and piss on you. Turks numerically inferior pissed on the Chinese.


ZeEa5KPul said:


> You have real difficulty sticking to the topic. I can turn your silly example on its head: the US accuses China of trying to take its place in the world (rightly so! lol) and still does business with it. When is America going to cut off all economic relations with China?
> 
> Not any time soon, apparently, since Trump (Mr. America First) is crying for a deal with China to save his political career and with it any chance he has of dying outside a prison cell.
> 
> 
> This is obviously the closest thing to a straight answer I'm going to get from you, so I'll work with it. Make do with reality, that's exactly it. Here's the reality: Xinjiang is a matter of China's sovereignty and territorial integrity - it doesn't get bigger than that. China is going to take Uighur culture, grind it into a powder, and then remake it into a Disneyfied parody. Nobody can stop this, it's as immutable as gravity. China will not tolerate its territory being used as a base for terrorism and separatist violence and subversion.
> 
> Let me tell you something else: pray to Allah every single day that this process works as quickly and painlessly as possible. Because if it doesn't, if China becomes convinced that the Uighurs are beyond redemption, then "Uighur" will be something that you know only through history books. Whenever you're chanting your silly slogans and doing your hashtag jihads on Twitter, pray quietly for China's success because you can be sure what the alternative will be.

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## eldamar

Baybars Han said:


> Dude calm down, in history China was grinded and pissed over, by Göktürks, Mongols, Japanese etc and Turks and Uyghurs still survived any Chinese attempt. You little cockroaches are going beyond your means these days. History has points, soon it will come when we will disintegrate you and piss on you. Turks numerically inferior pissed on the Chinese.


=

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkhon_inscriptions


"Because of want of harmony between the begs and the people, and because of the Chinese people's cunning and craft and its intrigues, and because the younger and the elder brothers chose to take counsel against one another and bring discord between begs and people, they brought the old realm of the Turkic people to dissolution, and brought destruction on its lawful kagans. *The sons of the nobles became the bondsmen of the Chinese people, their unsullied daughters became its slaves. The Turkic begs gave up their Turkic names, and bearing the Chinese names of Chinese begs they obeyed the Chinese Emperor,* and served him during fifty years. For him they waged war in the East towards the sun's rising, as far as Bokli kagan, in the West they made expeditions as far as Taimirkapig; for the Chinese Emperor they conquered kingdoms and power. The whole of the common Turkic people said thus: 'I have been a nation that had its own kingdom; where is now my kingdom? For whom do I win the kingdoms? said they. I have been a people that had its own kagan; where is my kagan? Which kagan is it I serve?'"





*Orhon inscriptions*, Orhon also spelled *Orkhon*, oldest extant Turkish writings, discovered in the valley of the Orhon River, northern Mongolia, in 1889 and deciphered in 1893 by the Danish philologist Vilhelm Thomsen. They are on two large monuments, erected in AD 732 and 735 in honour of the Turkish prince Kül (d. 731) and his brother the emperor Bilge (d. 734), and are carved in a script used also for inscriptions found in Mongolia, Siberia, and Eastern Turkistan and called by Thomsen “Turkish runes.” *They relate in epic language the legendary origins of the Turks, the golden age of their history, their subjugation by the Chinese*


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_the_Western_Turks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_campaign_against_the_Eastern_Turks#Defeat_of_the_Eastern_Turks



Baybars Han said:


> Turks numerically inferior pissed on the Chinese.




History says the Chinese pissed on the Turks tho. So should people believe history or you?


*Haha thanks.*


----------



## Itachi

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Indonesia: China, please clarify what you're doing in Xinjiang.
> China: F*ck off.
> Indonesia: Thank you for the clarification.



Looks like someone's craving a ban.

Reported troll.



Petrichor said:


> @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan Read this thread from top to bottom.See the attitude of some Chinese regarding Uyghurs,Pakistan, Turkey & Indonesia. @Itachi @War Thunder



Yea, I see it already lol and reported loads of them too. Especially false flagging pro-Chinese.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I just see overly riled up Chinese kids trolling on Turkey and Pakistan, nothing else. It is not like this is the policy of CCP or China.



Oh but it is....right now, they're committing atrocities against Muslims inside China...what's to stop them from committing the outside once they're a regional superpower??

All Empires start this way....and China has a history of doing genocides, I'm sure you have read. 



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Fact-finding missions are very important and I hope China allows Muslim countries to send them, including Pakistan.



Nah, they'll just put diplo pressure on Pakistan, remove aid, whatnot and the pets will calmly go back into their place. 



aziqbal said:


> China’s reply is so predictable
> 
> no point in even trying to talk to them
> 
> best thing is openly condemn and boy cott them and support HK and Taiwan



Be ready to be called "Indian" & "CIA Agent"

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## eldamar

aziqbal said:


> China’s reply is so predictable
> 
> no point in even trying to talk to them
> 
> best thing is openly condemn and boy cott them and support HK and Taiwan


how do u plan to boycott themself *yourself*? like what action would u be taking on your part to fullfill this mission?

im not asking about condeming because going by China's track record, doing it wont work. U can peition every single nation on earth to sign a condemnation letter, and Xi jinping will probably use it as toilet paper.

Not to mention major Muslim nations are on China's side, including your own.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-backing-chinas-xinjiang-policy-idUSKCN1U721X

_As well as Saudi Arabia and Russia, the letter was signed by ambassadors from many African countries, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, Belarus, Myanmar, the Philippines, Syria, Pakistan, Oman, Kuwait, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain._


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

KungFuLee said:


> Strangely, he claim to be residing in America.



How is that of relevance?



Minho said:


> People like him are practically begging to get put on an FBI watchlist



Reported. Another of your fake IDs, KUngFU Indian or Federer Indian? Why do Indians hide their ethnicity?



FedererExpress said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212758951999279106



The neo-Nazi skinhead Muslim hater Rick Scott, please.



eldarlmari said:


> how do u plan to boycott themself *yourself*? like what action would u be taking on your part to fullfill this mission?
> 
> im not asking about condeming because going by China's track record, doing it wont work. U can peition every single nation on earth to sign a condemnation letter, and the Xi jinping will probably use it as toilet paper.
> 
> Not to mention major Muslim nations are on China's side, including your own.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-backing-chinas-xinjiang-policy-idUSKCN1U721X
> 
> _As well as Saudi Arabia and Russia, the letter was signed by ambassadors from many African countries, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, Belarus, Myanmar, the Philippines, Syria, Pakistan, Oman, Kuwait, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain._



This is a pretty funny statement. Pakistan and China friendship will reach the skies and valleys, but these select individuals will boycott China while JF17 will continue dominating Indians.

I for one am fully thankful to our Chinese friends for the support.



Itachi said:


> Oh but it is....right now, they're committing atrocities against Muslims inside China...what's to stop them from committing the outside once they're a regional superpower??
> 
> All Empires start this way....and China has a history of doing genocides, I'm sure you have read.



If the situation comes to that, we can deal with it, but right now you are talking hypotheticals while a real imperialist power is breathing down our neck and Indian Gangu brigade is having dream of conquering Akhund Bharata which never existed.


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## eldamar

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> This is a pretty funny statement. Pakistan and China friendship will reach the skies and valleys, but these select individuals will boycott China while JF17 will continue dominating Indians.
> 
> I for one am fully thankful to our Chinese friends for the support.


yes i know.

what im truly interested to know is how he would fulfill what he suggested(boycott) *himself*?

or is he just exhorting others to do what he preached, while he himself continues to use his made-in-china mouse, keyboard , monitor, PC hardware, appliances, etc- like practically almost every consumer goods in his own house, including his own smartphone.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

eldarlmari said:


> =
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkhon_inscriptions
> 
> 
> "Because of want of harmony between the begs and the people, and because of the Chinese people's cunning and craft and its intrigues, and because the younger and the elder brothers chose to take counsel against one another and bring discord between begs and people, they brought the old realm of the Turkic people to dissolution, and brought destruction on its lawful kagans. *The sons of the nobles became the bondsmen of the Chinese people, their unsullied daughters became its slaves. The Turkic begs gave up their Turkic names, and bearing the Chinese names of Chinese begs they obeyed the Chinese Emperor,* and served him during fifty years. For him they waged war in the East towards the sun's rising, as far as Bokli kagan, in the West they made expeditions as far as Taimirkapig; for the Chinese Emperor they conquered kingdoms and power. The whole of the common Turkic people said thus: 'I have been a nation that had its own kingdom; where is now my kingdom? For whom do I win the kingdoms? said they. I have been a people that had its own kagan; where is my kagan? Which kagan is it I serve?'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Orhon inscriptions*, Orhon also spelled *Orkhon*, oldest extant Turkish writings, discovered in the valley of the Orhon River, northern Mongolia, in 1889 and deciphered in 1893 by the Danish philologist Vilhelm Thomsen. They are on two large monuments, erected in AD 732 and 735 in honour of the Turkish prince Kül (d. 731) and his brother the emperor Bilge (d. 734), and are carved in a script used also for inscriptions found in Mongolia, Siberia, and Eastern Turkistan and called by Thomsen “Turkish runes.” *They relate in epic language the legendary origins of the Turks, the golden age of their history, their subjugation by the Chinese*
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_the_Western_Turks
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_campaign_against_the_Eastern_Turks#Defeat_of_the_Eastern_Turks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History says the Chinese pissed on the Turks tho. So should people believe history or you?
> 
> 
> *Haha thanks.*



It has been back and forth for many of the people in that region. Huns, Mongols, Turks, and Iranics like Saka, White Huns, and Kushans. Steppe was a brutal environment, and both China and Indus region (Pakistan) changed from nomadic expansions and our genetics changed from it.

Instead of talking about the past, let's look forward to the future. It is will be great day to see Turks and Chinese united with each other to resist our common foes, then Pakistan's position can only get stronger.


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## eldamar

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> It has been back and forth for many of the people in that region. Huns, Mongols, Turks, and Iranics like Saka, White Huns, and Kushans. Steppe was a brutal environment, and both China and Indus region (Pakistan) changed from nomadic expansions and our genetics changed from it.
> 
> Instead of talking about the past, let's look forward to the future. It is will be great day to see Turks and Chinese united with each other to resist our common foes, then Pakistan's position can only get stronger.


ya, but was i replying to this:


Baybars Han said:


> in history China was grinded and pissed over, by Göktürks, Mongols, Japanese etc and Turks and Uyghurs still survived any Chinese attempt. You little cockroaches are going beyond your means these days. History has points, soon it will come when we will disintegrate you and piss on you. Turks numerically inferior pissed on the Chinese.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

eldarlmari said:


> ya, but was i replying to this:



100% understand, but better to ignore such posts and move on.


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## Itachi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> If the situation comes to that, we can deal with it, but right now you are talking hypotheticals while a real imperialist power is breathing down our neck and Indian Gangu brigade is having dream of conquering Akhund Bharata which never existed.



The US & Indians will be dealt with but make no mistake....China isn't anyone's friend. 

All it's doing is securing itself against the coming war(s).

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Itachi said:


> The US & Indians will be dealt with but make no mistake....China isn't anyone's friend.
> 
> All it's doing is securing itself against the coming war(s).



Sure brother, your insight is appreciated as always. We may disagree, but I am also curious to get more information on Xinjiang, and Indonesia/Turkey are doing great in this regard.

I just wish that the accusations and allegations would end so we get a genuine idea as to what is happening, as far as numbers and programs being carried out in these camps.

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## KungFuLee

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> How is that of relevance?
> .



How do you live in America when your English Language ability is so low? What are you and how are you communicate? Sign?

Do you know the term "Willing Conspiracy"? You are living in one.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

KungFuLee said:


> How do you live in America when your English Language ability is so low? What are you and how are you communicate? Sign?
> 
> Do you know the term "Willing Conspiracy"? You are living in one.



Lol, ok Gangu Indian. You are living on seeking my attention now.

Time to say goodbye. I have reported your posts, hope Mods take care of you false flaggers.

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## KungFuLee

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Lol, ok Gangu Indian. You are living on seeking my attention now.
> 
> Time to say goodbye. I have reported your posts, hope Mods take care of you false flaggers.



Yes, yes, yes, whenever you lost an argument, I am a false flagger.

To begin with, being a false flagger (Whether I am or not) have no mutual relationship on whether my point is valid. So, just because if someone is Indian, then his point is automatically wrong? 

That is a flawed logic. actually, more of an excuse of losing an argument. Like "I won't argue with you because you don't worth my time". This would have been valid if you did not engage in the first place, once you did engage, you no longer have the luxury of saying "You don't worth my time" 

And I also want the moderator team to figure out this "False Flagger" thing once and for all, but judging from the readiness of this forum, I don't think moderator would ever proof or disprove your theory.


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## ZeEa5KPul

Itachi said:


> Nah, they'll just put diplo pressure on Pakistan, remove aid, whatnot and the pets will calmly go back into their place.


If you stopped licking America's a*s for just a second and thought about Pakistan's geopolitical situation, you might have some sympathy for it. Sloganeering for "the ummah" is very easy from mommy's basement in Dearborn, Michigan, but Pakistan can't afford the luxuries jihadi wannabes like you have. Pakistan faces an existential threat from an expansionist and genocidal India, not to mention rampant poverty, illiteracy, nonexistent education and basic state services, and other developmental challenges. Without China's support its situation would be incomparably grimmer.

I know the real Pakistanis who grew up in Pakistan and know its problems have choice epithets for people like you. I wish I knew them.

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## UKBengali

ZeEa5KPul said:


> If you stopped licking America's a*s for just a second and thought about Pakistan's geopolitical situation, you might have some sympathy for it. Sloganeering for "the ummah" is very easy from mommy's basement in Dearborn, Michigan, but Pakistan can't afford the luxuries jihadi wannabes like you have. Pakistan faces an existential threat from an expansionist and genocidal India, not to mention rampant poverty, illiteracy, nonexistent education and basic state services, and other developmental challenges. Without China's support its situation would be incomparably grimmer.
> 
> I know the real Pakistanis who grew up in Pakistan and know its problems have choice epithets for people like you. I wish I knew them.



dude, China also needs Pakistan to keep India busy and for energy and trade links to Arabian Sea.
You cannot just drop them like that as then otherwise India will be 100% focused on you as well as USA/Japan etc.


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## Kai Liu

WTF??? Since when should bumpkins from the shxthole bangladesh tell us how to run our country??


























Care your beggar country bangladesh first!

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## ZeEa5KPul

UKBengali said:


> dude, China also needs Pakistan to keep India busy and for energy and trade links to Arabian Sea.
> You cannot just drop them like that as then otherwise India will be 109% focused on you as well as USA/Japan etc.








Where did I advocate that China should drop Pakistan?
I'm not even going to bother with the nonsense about the US/Japan being focused on China. The US is starting a war with Iran and Japan is focused on China in the sense that it wants to deepen economic links with China. The containment of China is proceeding beautifully, I see. 
As for India... India is busy laying the groundwork for ethnically cleansing Muslims from its territory. Let's see "the ummah" handle that.

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## UKBengali

Kai Liu said:


> WTF??? Since when should bumpkins from the shxthole bangladesh tell us how to run our country??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Care your beggar country bangladesh first!



Dude ,China came out of civil war in 1949 and BD became independent in 1971.
Give BD 22 more years and it will be where China is now.
BD is the fastest growing large economy in the world at 8% a year and expected to stay this way till 2034 in a lot of economic forecasts. Just Google infrastructure projects in BD and slum clearances in Dhaka and you will see how BD is progressing.
Please do not carry your butthurt over from the PLAN 2025 thread over to this one.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

ZeEa5KPul said:


> If you stopped licking America's a*s for just a second and thought about Pakistan's geopolitical situation, you might have some sympathy for it. Sloganeering for "the ummah" is very easy from mommy's basement in Dearborn, Michigan, but Pakistan can't afford the luxuries jihadi wannabes like you have. Pakistan faces an existential threat from an expansionist and genocidal India, not to mention rampant poverty, illiteracy, nonexistent education and basic state services, and other developmental challenges. Without China's support its situation would be incomparably grimmer.
> 
> I know the real Pakistanis who grew up in Pakistan and know its problems have choice epithets for people like you. I wish I knew them.



What an insulting post against not only Muslims, but Pakistanis. Please refrain from discussing something you know nothing about.

When two Pakistanis are talking about an internal issue, please step back.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> As for India... India is busy laying the groundwork for ethnically cleansing Muslims from its territory. Let's see "the ummah" handle that.



Don't use the word Ummah again or I will report you. You have been posting anti-Muslim propaganda all over this forum. Now you are insulting Islamic sacred concepts.

Have some shame.

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## Itachi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I just wish that the accusations and allegations would end so we get a genuine idea as to what is happening, as far as numbers and programs being carried out in these camps.



Right, exactly but the thing is....China isn't being open about the issue.

It hasn't allowed any independent verifiers in and all the state visit done previously have been said to be "carefully pre-planned" with the people inside these "vocational schools" being told not to speak up......all of this was said by some officials who visited these "schools" or "Camps", whatever we call them.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> What an insulting post against not only Muslims, but Pakistanis. Please refrain from discussing something you know nothing about.
> 
> When two Pakistanis are talking about an internal issue, please step back.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use the word Ummah again or I will report you. You have been posting anti-Muslim propaganda all over this forum. Now you are insulting Islamic sacred concepts.
> 
> Have some shame.



I have already reported him, he's a pro-China, anti-Muslim/Islam troll. 



ZeEa5KPul said:


> If you stopped licking America's a*s for just a second and thought about Pakistan's geopolitical situation, you might have some sympathy for it. Sloganeering for "the ummah" is very easy from mommy's basement in Dearborn, Michigan, but Pakistan can't afford the luxuries jihadi wannabes like you have. Pakistan faces an existential threat from an expansionist and genocidal India, not to mention rampant poverty, illiteracy, nonexistent education and basic state services, and other developmental challenges. Without China's support its situation would be incomparably grimmer.
> 
> I know the real Pakistanis who grew up in Pakistan and know its problems have choice epithets for people like you. I wish I knew them.



@Dubious @waz @Arsalan 

Please handle this troll....already reported him twice but he's still ranting.....going from anti-Pakistan & anti-Islam posts to posting abusive words.

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## Itachi

ZeEa5KPul said:


> It doesn't work that way. You and the rest of your ummah (oh, look, I used the word again) think you can stick your noses in China's business? I'm going to stick my nose in yours. And you're not Pakistani - if you believe in the ummah then you don't believe in Pakistan. Belief in the ummah and belief in nation states are mutually exclusive. Believing in the ummah, practically speaking, means you want to be ruled by Turks. Hey, that's fine, emigrate to Turkey and be ruled by Turks. Don't drag the rest of your countrymen into your silly fantasies about some fallen Ottoman empire, they don't want to be cattle owned by Turks like you do.
> 
> The Ottoman empire has been gone for 100 years and it's not coming back. Deal with it.
> 
> 
> Ummah. Ummah. Ummah. Report me till the button breaks.
> 
> And I haven't even come close to insulting Islam and what it considers sacred concepts. I appreciate that even among ardent Pakistani nationalists, Islam has an important place. Since I genuinely don't want to offend those people (just you and people like you) - and as a practical consideration given who moderates these forums - I'm restraining myself. You haven't felt a droplet of the venom I want to spray.
> 
> 
> I'm not anti-Pakistan at all. I support Pakistani nationalism and hope to see it grow into a potent political force. What I find disgusting and pathetic are second and third generation teenagers with identity issues far removed from their home countries, who don't understand the problems their countries of origin face, and who advocate ideologies that would lead to the total destruction of those countries - purely to virtue signal and compare e-_taqwa_ in their wannabe jihadi social media circles.
> 
> 
> Have some patriotism.



You don't know shit about Islam, the concept of the Ummah or Pakistan. Are you a Muslim or a Pakistani??

Why not show us your real flags huh??

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## ZeEa5KPul

Itachi said:


> You don't know shit about Islam, the concept of the Ummah or Pakistan.


Quite the contrary, I think you'll find that I know quite a lot about all three.



Itachi said:


> Are you a Muslim or a Pakistani??


I am neither, although I've been "accused" of being a false-flagging Pakistani before - and an overcompensating diaspora Chinese, and a self-loathing white. The guesses are as varied as they are hilarious.



Itachi said:


> Why not show us your real flags huh??


Hey, it's the magic of the internet. We can be whatever we want to be.


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## Itachi

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Quite the contrary, I think you'll find that I know quite a lot about all three.



How do you know about all three?? Did you read the Quran and the books of hadith or go onto the internet and read fake stuff on Islam??



ZeEa5KPul said:


> Hey, it's the magic of the internet. We can be whatever we want to be.



So you're admitting you're a false flagger??

Why is a Canadian, born in Canada (according to your flags), so pro-Chinese, knows so much about Islam and Pakistan and ridicules the concept of the Ummah??

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

ZeEa5KPul said:


> It doesn't work that way. You and the rest of your ummah (oh, look, I used the word again) think you can stick your noses in China's business? I'm going to stick my nose in yours. And you're not Pakistani - if you believe in the ummah then you don't believe in Pakistan. Belief in the ummah and belief in nation states are mutually exclusive. Believing in the ummah, practically speaking, means you want to be ruled by Turks. Hey, that's fine, emigrate to Turkey and be ruled by Turks. Don't drag the rest of your countrymen into your silly fantasies about some fallen Ottoman empire, they don't want to be cattle owned by Turks like you do.
> 
> The Ottoman empire has been gone for 100 years and it's not coming back. Deal with it.
> 
> 
> Ummah. Ummah. Ummah. Report me till the button breaks.
> 
> And I haven't even come close to insulting Islam and what it considers sacred concepts. I appreciate that even among ardent Pakistani nationalists, Islam has an important place. Since I genuinely don't want to offend those people (just you and people like you) - and as a practical consideration given who moderates these forums - I'm restraining myself. You haven't felt a droplet of the venom I want to spray.
> 
> 
> I'm not anti-Pakistan at all. I support Pakistani nationalism and hope to see it grow into a potent political force. What I find disgusting and pathetic are second and third generation teenagers with identity issues far removed from their home countries, who don't understand the problems their countries of origin face, and who advocate ideologies that would lead to the total destruction of those countries - purely to virtue signal and compare e-_taqwa_ in their wannabe jihadi social media circles.
> 
> 
> Have some patriotism.



You are just another enemy of Islam and Pakistan. Shame on you people. I have reported you to mods for bringing Islam to into this thread and insulting Islamic concepts like Ummah, taqwa, jihad, and Khilfat.

Go back across the border and talk about Chinese topics, don't insult Pakistan or Islam.

Mods take care of this troll. @waz @Horus @WebMaster @Dubious



Itachi said:


> How do you know about all three?? Did you read the Quran and the books of hadith or go onto the internet and read fake stuff on Islam??
> 
> 
> 
> So you're admitting you're a false flagger??
> 
> Why is a Canadian, born in Canada (according to your flags), so pro-Chinese, knows so much about Islam and Pakistan and ridicules the concept of the Ummah??



If he is so anti-Islam and anti-Muslim, he should find a forum populated by his kind.

Let genuine, respectful Chinese members discuss these political topics. Children should be put to bed.

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## Itachi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> If he is so anti-Islam and anti-Muslim, he should find a forum populated by his kind.



I think he has.....we have many anti-Islam PDF'ers....even Pakistani who scoff at anything Muslim/Islam. 

That's why this guy hasn't been banned yet unfortunately.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Let genuine, respectful Chinese members discuss these political topics.



Funny thing is....there are none or if they exist....they don't talk much...

All we get are these guys:




Kai Liu said:


> What butthurt? bengali beggar boy? You mean your master been gang raped by PLAN and get butthurt??? Or you mean your bengali beggar country being PLAN's trash yard and get butthurt??? LMAO...
> 
> 8% growth rate??? It is just low base effect nothing special...Infrastructure projects?? You should thank China instead of being a bunch of ungrateful crying bitches everywhere...



His post is directly above yours.

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## Kai Liu

Itachi said:


> His post is directly above yours.


Not just about him, a bunch of beggar boys from bangladesh crying like bitches everywhere, which is annoying...

BTW, don't misunderstand me, Pakistan is great, nothing will change the friendship between two countries as it has been time-tested, it won't be changed by a bunch of clowns:




And the development of Pakistan is great as well:

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Kai Liu said:


> Not just about him, a bunch of beggar boys from bangladesh crying like bitches everywhere, which is annoying...



While the rest of us laugh at Indians and their ridiculous claims/propaganda, unfortunately some BD brothers entertain Indian lies.

India has brainwashed them heavily through their government, so they think they can attack Pakistan indirectly by bringing up Uyghur issue. Indian Muslims do the same thing, look at them today becoming foreigners in their own country through de-naturalization like what Burma did to Rohingya.

BD is slowly and surely shifting towards China and Pakistan as the veils of Hindutva fascism are lifted and their barbaric villainy start to affect them as well.

I can understand Turk apprehensions on this matter as they view Uyghur East Turkestan as their integral part along with the rest of Turan/Turkestan. They also have historical rivalries with China, like for example in the time of Kurşat. China should understand and allay the concerns.

Malaysia and Indonesia also have genuine concerns, they should be respected and cleared.

Arabs, esp Muslim Brotherhood USA and the rest of Levant MB, are functioning as CIA assets and trying to spread disinformation among their people and at the same time trying to marginalize Pakistanis, who are pro-Chinese.

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## UKBengali

Kai Liu said:


> What butthurt? bengali beggar boy? You mean your master been gang raped by PLAN and get butthurt??? Or you mean your bengali beggar country being PLAN's trash yard and get butthurt??? LMAO...
> 
> 8% growth rate??? It is just low base effect nothing special...Infrastructure projects?? You should thank China instead of being a bunch of ungrateful crying bitches everywhere...



Err...

Low base effect?
Why cannot others do the same thing then if that was the case?
Neither Pakistan or India can do what BD is doing.

Infrastructure Spending? China is only giving 10% of the money that BD spends every year on infrastructure?

PS - you think China will not be paid back in full with 2-3% interest on top? Do not try to make it look like you are doing BD any favours here.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

UKBengali said:


> Neither Pakistan or India can do what BD is doing.



My friend, please stop comparing yourself to Pakistan.

You are neither the target of economic, proxy warfare from US, nor do you have to field a standing army on your border with India. You do not border Afghanistan nor Iran. Your people did not have to pay the corruption of 3 of the richest and most treacherous previous government which Pakistan had to.

You did not lose 75,000 of your people to proxy terrorism from occupied Afghanistan by US, Israeli, Indian joint designs.

You are not the sole nuclear power of the Muslim world. Neither do you field the best airforce, army, and border/FC forces in the Muslim world.

We constantly have a target drawn on our heads and live under the pressure of enemy governments, their false media campaigns, and their terrorism.

We have totally different groundrealities.

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## UKBengali

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> My friend, please stop comparing yourself to Pakistan.
> 
> You are neither the target of economic, proxy warfare from US, nor do you have to field a standing army on your border with India. You do not border Afghanistan nor Iran. Your people did not have to pay the corruption of 3 of the richest and most treacherous previous government which Pakistan had to.
> 
> You did not lose 75,000 of your people to proxy terrorism from occupied Afghanistan by US, Israeli, Indian joint designs.
> 
> You are not the sole nuclear power of the Muslim world. Neither do you field the best airforce, army, and border/FC forces in the Muslim world.
> 
> We constantly have a target drawn on our heads and live under the pressure of enemy governments, their false media campaigns, and their terrorism.
> 
> We have totally different groundrealities.



Chinese butthurt poster started posting some nice looking videos of Pakistan's and rubbish looking videos of BD as he is butthurt that I destroyed him in the PLAN 2025 thread. 

Anyway excuses, excuses, excuses....

Pakistan has far more natural resources than BD - more arable land and massive hydroelectric resources. This is just not being utilised as well as it could be.

Tell your Chinese buddy @Kai Liu to stop thinking that China is better than BD just because they had a 22 year head start in development - they started after their civil war in 1949 and BD started after it became an independent nation in 1971.

You can imagine what he really thinks about Pakistan - 1400 dollar US nominal GDP to 2000 for BD.

BD may be much behind China but economy is growing at sustained 8% a year and all independent forecasters think it will pretty much stay this way till 2030 at least.


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## Sehnsucht

UKBengali said:


> Chinese butthurt poster started posting some nice looking videos of Pakistan's and rubbish looking videos of BD as he is butthurt that I destroyed him in the PLAN 2025 thread.
> 
> Anyway excuses, excuses, excuses....
> 
> Pakistan has far more natural resources than BD - more arable land and massive hydroelectric resources. This is just not being utilised as well as it could be.
> 
> Tell your Chinese buddy @Kai Liu to stop thinking that China is better than BD just because they had a 22 year head start in development - they started after their civil war in 1949 and BD started after it became an independent nation in 1971.
> 
> You can imagine what he really thinks about Pakistan - 1400 dollar US nominal GDP to 2000 for BD.
> 
> BD may be much behind China but economy is growing at sustained 8% a year and all independent forecasters think it will pretty much stay this way till 2030 at least.


Pakistan & Bangladesh face different challenges. Comparing our economies are like comparing apples & oranges.
Let us not argue with ourselves just because of what a Chinese pulls out from his rear.He's doing it to distract ourselves from discussing their atrocities in Xinjiang & to derail the thread by bringing up Pakistan & Bangladesh so that we take shots at each other instead of focusing on Xinjiang. Don't fall into his trap.

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## UKBengali

Petrichor said:


> Let us not argue with ourselves just because of what something a Chinese posted.He's doing it to distract ourselves from discussing Xinjiang & to derail the thread.
> Pakistan & Bangladesh face different challenges. Comparing our economies are like comparing apples and oranges.



Yes in some ways but he is also butthurt about how I put his "mighty" PLAN down in that other thread. Lol @ getting a good beating from a country with 1/20th the population in the oceans.
Anyway this is my last reply off topic as we need to be discussing Chinese crimes against Uighur. Muslims must be united against this criminal behaviour against defenceless Muslims.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

UKBengali said:


> Chinese butthurt poster started posting some nice looking videos of Pakistan's and rubbish looking videos of BD as he is butthurt that I destroyed him in the PLAN 2025 thread.
> 
> Anyway excuses, excuses, excuses....
> 
> Pakistan has far more natural resources than BD - more arable land and massive hydroelectric resources. This is just not being utilised as well as it could be.
> 
> Tell your Chinese buddy @Kai Liu to stop thinking that China is better than BD just because they had a 22 year head start in development - they started after their civil war in 1949 and BD started after it became an independent nation in 1971.
> 
> You can imagine what he really thinks about Pakistan - 1400 dollar US nominal GDP to 2000 for BD.
> 
> BD may be much behind China but economy is growing at sustained 8% a year and all independent forecasters think it will pretty much stay this way till 2030 at least.








You CAN NEVER EVER compare bangladesh to China. The Chinese race has historically invented advanced sciences and technologies comparable to the White races. This high IQ trait will ensure that China becomes a superpower/global power within the coming few years/decades. 

The bangladeshi race HAS NEVER EVER invented or pioneered ANY advanced sciences or technologies. Nor has bangladesh ever been a part of great civilisations like Rome, Ancient Greece, Persia, Mesopatamia, Ancient Egypt, the Indus Valley etc. The bangladeshi race doesn't have the IQ to ever become a major power or nation: 

https://new-iq-test.com/iq-by-country/

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## UKBengali

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> You CAN NEVER EVER compare bangladesh to China. The Chinese race has historically invented advanced sciences and technologies comparable to the White races. This high IQ trait will ensure that China becomes a superpower/global power within the coming few years/decades.
> 
> The bangladeshi race HAS NEVER EVER invented or pioneered ANY advanced sciences or technologies. Nor has bangladesh ever been a part of great civilisations like Rome, Ancient Greece, Persia, Mesopatamia, Ancient Egypt, the Indus Valley etc. The bangladeshi race doesn't have the IQ to ever become a major power or nation:
> 
> https://new-iq-test.com/iq-by-country/



This is off-topic.

If you would like to discuss this with me, then please open a new thread and tag me.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

UKBengali said:


> Yes in some ways but he is also butthurt about how I put his "mighty" PLAN down in that other thread. Lol @ getting a good beating from a country with 1/20th the population in the oceans.
> Anyway this is my last reply off topic as we need to be discussing Chinese crimes against Uighur. Muslims must be united against this criminal behaviour against defenceless Muslims.






So what is bangladesh going to do for the Uighers?

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## UKBengali

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> So what is bangladesh going to do for the Uighers?



BD posters are in universal condemnation of China.
Chinese know that they are no longer liked by BD'shis.
Next step is for BD government to start raising this issue with the Chinese government.


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## fisher1

I am in a bind here and i have been thinking about this for an hour now.

I was banned for two weeks for speaking about Holy Quran. Now if i speak about Holy Quran again, i get banned again probably which will be a loss to the Uighers cause.

But i would be a hypocrite and not worthy of having the hero in my picture as my avatar if i didn't speak against this, besides it seems calling Islam a regressive retrograde religion and mocking Islam is allowed while speaking for Holy Quran gets a ban.

Yeah i don't think i can make one post without speaking about Holy Quran, May my useless life be sacrificed for it.

La ilaha illallah muhammadur rasulullah(saww)

The Chinese Pharaoh Xi Jinping has ordered Holy Quran to be edited among other religious books.

https://m.yenisafak.com/en/world/si...te-quran-in-accordance-with-communism-3508306

https://ahvalnews-com.cdn.ampprojec...uran-bible-amid-crackdown-uighur-minority?amp

https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/...uran-or-face-muslim-outrage-mapim-warns-china

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/n...write-quran-bible-to-reflect-socialist-values


To the moderator who hates and banned me posting about Pharaoh Xi Jinping editing Holy Quran, if you're going to ban me again for this, please ban me forever because i will never let this news about satan in human form go ever and keep posting this.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

IlyasMyHero said:


> I am in a bind here and i have been thinking about this for an hour now.
> 
> I was banned for two weeks for speaking about Holy Quran. Now if i speak about Holy Quran again, i get banned again probably which will be a loss to the Uighers cause.
> 
> But i would be a hypocrite and not worthy of having the hero in my picture as my avatar if i didn't speak against this, besides it seems calling Islam a regressive retrograde religion and mocking Islam is allowed while speaking for Holy Quran gets a ban.
> 
> Yeah i don't think i can make one post without speaking about Holy Quran, May my useless life be sacrificed for it.
> 
> La ilaha illallah muhammadur rasulullah(saww)
> 
> The Chinese Pharaoh Xi Jinping has ordered Holy Quran to be edited among other religious books.
> 
> https://m.yenisafak.com/en/world/si...te-quran-in-accordance-with-communism-3508306
> 
> https://ahvalnews-com.cdn.ampprojec...uran-bible-amid-crackdown-uighur-minority?amp
> 
> https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/...uran-or-face-muslim-outrage-mapim-warns-china
> 
> https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/n...write-quran-bible-to-reflect-socialist-values







Do you also believe that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins?

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## Sehnsucht

IlyasMyHero said:


> I am in a bind here and i have been thinking about this for an hour now.
> 
> I was banned for two weeks for speaking about Holy Quran. Now if i speak about Holy Quran again, i get banned again probably which will be a loss to the Uighers cause.
> 
> But i would be a hypocrite and not worthy of having the hero in my picture as my avatar if i didn't speak against this, besides it seems calling Islam a regressive retrograde religion and mocking Islam is allowed while speaking for Holy Quran gets a ban.
> 
> Yeah i don't think i can make one post without speaking about Holy Quran, May my useless life be sacrificed for it.
> 
> La ilaha illallah muhammadur rasulullah(saww)
> 
> The Chinese Pharaoh Xi Jinping has ordered Holy Quran to be edited among other religious books.
> 
> https://m.yenisafak.com/en/world/si...te-quran-in-accordance-with-communism-3508306
> 
> https://ahvalnews-com.cdn.ampprojec...uran-bible-amid-crackdown-uighur-minority?amp
> 
> https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/...uran-or-face-muslim-outrage-mapim-warns-china
> 
> https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/n...write-quran-bible-to-reflect-socialist-values


Welcome back brother. 
I was surprised to see you banned.You're right that if you get banned again,it'll be a loss for the Uyghur cause.At least in PDF.Posters speaking out against Chinese atrocities in Xinjiang against our brothers are rare as it is.Which is very disappointing considering most of the posters here I think are Muslims.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

IlyasMyHero said:


> I am in a bind here and i have been thinking about this for an hour now.
> 
> I was banned for two weeks for speaking about Holy Quran. Now if i speak about Holy Quran again, i get banned again probably which will be a loss to the Uighers cause.
> 
> But i would be a hypocrite and not worthy of having the hero in my picture as my avatar if i didn't speak against this, besides it seems calling Islam a regressive retrograde religion and mocking Islam is allowed while speaking for Holy Quran gets a ban.
> 
> Yeah i don't think i can make one post without speaking about Holy Quran, May my useless life be sacrificed for it.
> 
> La ilaha illallah muhammadur rasulullah(saww)
> 
> The Chinese Pharaoh Xi Jinping has ordered Holy Quran to be edited among other religious books.
> 
> https://m.yenisafak.com/en/world/si...te-quran-in-accordance-with-communism-3508306
> 
> https://ahvalnews-com.cdn.ampprojec...uran-bible-amid-crackdown-uighur-minority?amp
> 
> https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/...uran-or-face-muslim-outrage-mapim-warns-china
> 
> https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/n...write-quran-bible-to-reflect-socialist-values
> 
> 
> To the moderator who hates and banned me posting about Pharaoh Xi Jinping editing Holy Quran, if you're going to ban me again for this, please ban me forever because i will never let this news about satan in human form go ever and keep posting this.







Rather than spreading American propaganda when I you going to start protesting against indian oppression against Muslim Kashmiris?



Petrichor said:


> Welcome back brother.
> I was surprised to see you banned.You're right that if you get banned again,it'll be a loss for the Uyghur cause.At least in PDF.Posters speaking out against Chinese atrocities in Xinjiang against our brothers are rare as it is.Which is very disappointing considering most of the posters here I think are Muslims.







Because American propaganda is right and oppression of Kashmiri Muslims by indians is okay?

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## Kai Liu

UKBengali said:


> Chinese butthurt poster started posting some nice looking videos of Pakistan's and rubbish looking videos of BD as he is butthurt that I destroyed him in the PLAN 2025 thread.
> 
> Anyway excuses, excuses, excuses....
> 
> Pakistan has far more natural resources than BD - more arable land and massive hydroelectric resources. This is just not being utilised as well as it could be.
> 
> Tell your Chinese buddy @Kai Liu to stop thinking that China is better than BD just because they had a 22 year head start in development - they started after their civil war in 1949 and BD started after it became an independent nation in 1971.
> 
> You can imagine what he really thinks about Pakistan - 1400 dollar US nominal GDP to 2000 for BD.
> 
> BD may be much behind China but economy is growing at sustained 8% a year and all independent forecasters think it will pretty much stay this way till 2030 at least.


Do not lie, Bengali boy, you get butthurt because we gang raped your master in the PLAN 2025 thread.
You have 2000 usd per capita on paper, but in reality, you are not even close to Pakistan... Just look at how many cars you produced per year: that is: 2,000 a year ... You have no shame at all...
Although I am not a fun of vietnam, but honestly, in comparison, your country does not look like a country with a gdp per capita of 2,000 like vn @Viet , but one of poorest on this planet...
And do not find excuse after excuse after excuse like 'gain independence in 1971...' It has nothing to do with the shitty life of your people in reality... And we refuse the future tense here, like your beloved india's super power 2020 shxt...

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Petrichor said:


> Welcome back brother.
> I was surprised to see you banned.You're right that if you get banned again,it'll be a loss for the Uyghur cause.At least in PDF.Posters speaking out against Chinese atrocities in Xinjiang against our brothers are rare as it is.Which is very disappointing considering most of the posters here I think are Muslims.









@waz @Dubious @The Eagle @Horus @WAJsal @Irfan Baloch


Notice how bangladeshis on PDF are always spreading anti-Chinese propaganda. These SAME bangladeshis NEVER EVER condemn indian oppression against Muslim Kashmiris. They in fact are supporters of india. The bangladeshis here are trying to give PDF a bad name in front of our allies.

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## fisher1

Petrichor said:


> Welcome back brother.
> I was surprised to see you banned.You're right that if you get banned again,it'll be a loss for the Uyghur cause.At least in PDF.Posters speaking out against Chinese atrocities in Xinjiang against our brothers are rare as it is.Which is very disappointing considering most of the posters here I think are Muslims.



It was because of that news i posted. I posted an article, deleted by mod, posted again, deleted for having no value. Complained in suggestions forums, deleted and banned for two weeks.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

IlyasMyHero said:


> It was because of that news i posted. I posted an article, deleted by mod, posted again, deleted for having no value. Complained in suggestions forums, deleted and banned for two weeks.






Funny how you NEVER condemn indian oppression against Muslim Kashmiris..........I wonder why?.........

Must be hard believing Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins........


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## fisher1

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Funny how you NEVER condemn indian oppression against Muslim Kashmiris..........I wonder why?.........
> 
> Must be hard believing Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins........



Don't assume things about me and libel me.

Seems like lying all day for CCP, you've become a habitual liar.

Kid, i was defending Islam and responding to Indian filth who associated Islam with terrorism and mocked Jihad when i first joined this forum.

Now every hypocrite who are happy Indian Muslims are suffering and their mother is condemning India because it's fashion in Pakistan and the cool thing to do so i don't waste my energy on that but i never pass an opportunity to condemn India. I even see a hypocrite like you cry crocodile tears for oh Muslims of India while Muslims of China get forced to commit Shirk.

Uighurs are the unfortunate people that whoever speaks for them get faced with dire consequences. I have 19 warnings on my profile, have been banned every month for speaking for Uighurs. This is on an online forum, imagine that. People in real life face bigger consequences.

I don't appreciate your lies about me.

In fact, i am bored of your one dimensional propagandist posts with Iraqi WMDs and all that crap. The Iraqi WMDs story was debunked by Western media not Xinhua or CGTN or whatever Chinese. You eat and believe the same media that you call fake.

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## UKBengali

Kai Liu said:


> Do not lie, Bengali boy, you get butthurt because we gang raped your master in the PLAN 2025 thread.
> You have 2000 usd per capita on paper, but in reality, you are not even close to Pakistan... Just look at how many cars you produced per year: that is: 2,000 a year ... You have no shame at all...
> Although I am not a fun of vietnam, but honestly, in comparison, your country does not look like a country with a gdp per capita of 2,000 like vn @Viet , but one of poorest on this planet...
> And do not find excuse after excuse after excuse like 'gain independence in 1971...' It has nothing to do with the shitty life of your people in reality... And we refuse the future tense here, like your beloved india's super power 2020 shxt...



This is off-topic.

If you wish to discuss BD economy and learn about it, please open a thread in BD section, tag me and I will post detailed information in it.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

IlyasMyHero said:


> Don't assume things about me and libel me.
> 
> Seems like lying all day for CCP, you've become a habitual liar.
> 
> Kid, i was defending Islam and responding to Indian filth who associated Islam with terrorism and mocked Jihad when i first joined this forum.
> 
> Now every hypocrite who are happy Indian Muslims are suffering and their mother is condemning India because it's fashion in Pakistan and the cool thing to do so i don't waste my energy on that but i never pass an opportunity to condemn India. I even see a hypocrite like you cry crocodile tears for oh Muslims of India while Muslims of China get forced to commit Shirk.
> 
> Uighurs are the unfortunate people that whoever speaks for them get faced with dire consequences. I have 19 warnings on my profile, have been banned every month for speaking for Uighurs.
> 
> I don't appreciate your lies about me.
> 
> In fact, i am bored of your one dimensional propagandist posts with Iraqi WMDs and all that crap. The Iraqi WMDs story was debunked by Western media not Xinhua or CGTN or whatever Chinese. You eat and believe the same media that you call fake.






Kid, what you don't realise is that the SAME people who claimed that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins are the SAME people who are making accusations against China. Claiming that they are oppressing the Uighers...............

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## Sehnsucht

IlyasMyHero said:


> Don't assume things about me and libel me.
> 
> Seems like lying all day for CCP, you've become a habitual liar.
> 
> Kid, i was defending Islam and responding to Indian filth who associated Islam with terrorism and mocked Jihad when i first joined this forum.
> 
> Now every hypocrite who are happy Indian Muslims are suffering and their mother is condemning India because it's fashion in Pakistan and the cool thing to do so i don't waste my energy on that but i never pass an opportunity to condemn India. I even see a hypocrite like you cry crocodile tears for oh Muslims of India while Muslims of China get forced to commit Shirk.
> 
> Uighurs are the unfortunate people that whoever speaks for them get faced with dire consequences. I have 19 warnings on my profile, have been banned every month for speaking for Uighurs. This is on an online forum, imagine that. People in real life face bigger consequences.
> 
> I don't appreciate your lies about me.
> 
> In fact, i am bored of your one dimensional propagandist posts with Iraqi WMDs and all that crap. The Iraqi WMDs story was debunked by Western media not Xinhua or CGTN or whatever Chinese. You eat and believe the same media that you call fake.


Ignore him bro.He's just an overgrown man-child more Chinese than the Chinese themselves who will go whine to the mods whenever you burst his bubbles.

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## Kai Liu

UKBengali said:


> This is off-topic.
> 
> If you wish to discuss BD economy and learn about it, please open a thread in BD section, tag me and I will post detailed information in it.


Who cares... BD economy, LMAO... First explain how a country with 2000 usd GDP per capita and 0.17 billion in population only make 2,000 cars a year... From your past B.S. style, the answer I am expecting from you is: your 0.17 billion people all prefer those super luxurious rickshaws to cut the carbon emission and to make a better planet... right??? 







UKBengali said:


> Yes in some ways but he is also butthurt about how I put his "mighty" PLAN down in that other thread. Lol @ getting a good beating from a country with 1/20th the population in the oceans.
> Anyway this is my last reply off topic as we need to be discussing Chinese crimes against Uighur. Muslims must be united against this criminal behaviour against defenceless Muslims.


begali boy got butthurt because his master got gang raped by PLAN, and his shitty navy being our dump yard...LMAO...
Uigurs??? Excuse me, my advice to you bumpkins, save yourselves first to feed your stomach... And don't let your 'Uigur brothers' laugh at you bumpkins... LMAO...

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## ZeEa5KPul

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> You are just another enemy of Islam and Pakistan.


I am politically neutral (although personally hostile) to the first because although I personally believe Islam to be a retrograde and backward ideology (along with the rest of its Abrahamic kin), I believe that over time China can come to control and exploit it - first within its borders and then beyond. One should never reject an instrument of control and exploitation.

I am very friendly to Pakistan. I am sad to see the state Pakistan is in (if I felt less censored here I might discuss Islam's role in getting Pakistan to that state, but as things stand...) and hope China can help it grow out of that state. I want to see Pakistan develop into a strong, prosperous, secular-nationalist country.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I have reported you to mods for bringing Islam to into this thread and insulting Islamic concepts like Ummah, taqwa, jihad, and Khilfat.


Your very existence insults concepts like nationalism, patriotism, government, and state.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I can understand Turk apprehensions on this matter as they view Uyghur East Turkestan as their integral part along with the rest of Turan/Turkestan. They also have historical rivalries with China, like for example in the time of Kurşat. China should understand and allay the concerns.


Of course you understand Turkish apprehensions - a perfectly conditioned slave feels his master's pain even before the master himself feels it. What exquisite empathy you have; I only wish you could have it for the country you claim to be from. What you seem incapable of understanding is that - by your own admission - Turkey has designs on Chinese territory. Understand that that is _casus belli _sufficient for China to end Turkey's existence as a state. China should help Kurds carve up Turkey like a... turkey. 

As for China "allaying" Turkey's concerns, here's a confidence-building measure




I don't know about you, but I sure feel my concerns allayed and confidence built.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Arabs, esp Muslim Brotherhood USA and the rest of Levant MB, are functioning as CIA assets and trying to spread disinformation among their people and at the same time trying to marginalize Pakistanis, who are pro-Chinese.


Ah, the old "those evil _kafir_ governments are conspiring against Islam!" Of course they're conspiring against you - you're conspiring against them!



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> You are neither the target of economic, proxy warfare from US, nor do you have to field a standing army on your border with India. You do not border Afghanistan nor Iran. Your people did not have to pay the corruption of 3 of the richest and most treacherous previous government which Pakistan had to.


What is this _fitna _between @UKBengali and @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan, aren't you brothers in the ummah?
I love how Muslims claim to have close bonds that transcend borders and languages - when the historical reality is that the *moment* Mohammed died the ummah fell into civil war
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridda_wars



UKBengali said:


> Next step is for BD government to start raising this issue with the Chinese government.


If the BD government raises the issue, the Chinese government raises the interest rates. You've been crowing about the strength of the Bangladeshi economy, so surely it can afford higher interest rates. You want to talk about Uighurs, it's going to cost you.


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## UKBengali

@ZeEa5KPul 

China cannot charge more than 2-3% as BD government has said no to anymore and rather not take the loans then.
Since only 10% of BD infrastructure projects are financed by China, no great loss to BD

Anyway you think China will risk the loss of BD trade(economic and military) if BD starts rebuking China over Uighur?


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Petrichor said:


> Ignore him.He is the Riyad of Pakistani posters for China.Might be mentally-handicapped as well.Ignore his trash posts & verbal diarrhea.Besides, he doesn't really care for any unity between Muslims so you'll probably never get through him no matter how much logic you throw at him.




@waz @Dubious @The Eagle @WAJsal @Horus @Irfan Baloch 

Read the following personal insults above. I don't want to respond as I will get banned. This troll posts loads of anti-Pakistani posts and abuses Pakistan yet is allowed to stay on this forum. Please deal with this creature.

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## waz

Can we all leave the personal insults please, and as for people tagging me earlier, I’ve checked the thread and found nothing out of the usual.

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## The Eagle

Members are advised to exercise civility and manners while having a discussion. Subjects as such warrants an intellectual capacity that we all can practice merely by little efforts. Personal attacks are worst kind of way of debate and has been done only by the party that lost arguments based upon knowledge and information. Just don't force staff/us to enforce bans or warnings. 

Regards

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## Kai Liu

UKBengali said:


> @ZeEa5KPul
> 
> China cannot charge more than 2-3% as BD government has said no to anymore and rather not take the loans then.
> Since only 10% of BD infrastructure projects are financed by China, no great loss to BD
> 
> Anyway you think China will risk the loss of BD trade(economic and military) if BD starts rebuking China over Uighur?


BD trade... ....You think way way too much of yourself... LMAO....


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

UKBengali said:


> Pakistan has far more natural resources than BD - more arable land and massive hydroelectric resources. This is just not being utilised as well as it could be.



There is a lot of potential in Pakistan, what is missing is political will and security from enemies.



UKBengali said:


> BD may be much behind China but economy is growing at sustained 8% a year and all independent forecasters think it will pretty much stay this way till 2030 at least.



BD is doing well and I for one am glad for that. I wish the best for brother BD people.



Petrichor said:


> Pakistan & Bangladesh face different challenges. Comparing our economies are like comparing apples & oranges.
> Let us not argue with ourselves just because of what a Chinese pulls out from his rear.He's doing it to distract ourselves from discussing their atrocities in Xinjiang & to derail the thread by bringing up Pakistan & Bangladesh so that we take shots at each other instead of focusing on Xinjiang. Don't fall into his trap.



There was no one pushing me to ask those questions, @Kai Liu is innocent.

I asked brother @UKBengali those questions just because I don't agree how some posters compare Pakistan to other countries.



UKBengali said:


> BD posters are in universal condemnation of China.
> Chinese know that they are no longer liked by BD'shis.
> Next step is for BD government to start raising this issue with the Chinese government.



BD has no bone in this issue. BD should work on reducing its reliance to India, and increase cooperation with China and Pakistan.



IlyasMyHero said:


> The Chinese Pharaoh Xi Jinping has ordered Holy Quran to be edited among other religious books.



No one can change the Quran, Allah swt has protected it. Anyone can try, they will fail. Many have tried.



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> @waz @Dubious @The Eagle @Horus @WAJsal @Irfan Baloch
> 
> 
> Notice how bangladeshis on PDF are always spreading anti-Chinese propaganda. These SAME bangladeshis NEVER EVER condemn indian oppression against Muslim Kashmiris. They in fact are supporters of india. The bangladeshis here are trying to give PDF a bad name in front of our allies.



Good point.



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> @waz @Dubious @The Eagle @WAJsal @Horus @Irfan Baloch
> 
> Read the following personal insults above. I don't want to respond as I will get banned. This troll posts loads of anti-Pakistani posts and abuses Pakistan yet is allowed to stay on this forum. Please deal with this creature.



He was doing the same to me. He is trying to suppress the voice of Pakistanis on this issue. Pro-China Pro-Uyghur Pakistanis like us need to give our voices on this issue.

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## fisher1

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> No one can change the Quran, Allah swt has protected it. Anyone can try, they will fail. Many have tried.



Not many have tried, what are you talking about? . This Pharaoh is the only person in history i know who has the audacity to try it. I think i am insulting Pharaoh by calling him that, he's worst than Pharaoh. He's pure evil.

What's your point? You didn't tell me something i or any Muslim already doesn't know. Neither did i need any consolation about it from you nor is any Muslim afraid of Holy Quran being changed.

Are you saying what China is doing is fine because Allah has promised protection of Holy Quran?


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

IlyasMyHero said:


> Not many have tried, what are you talking about? . This Pharaoh is the only person in history i know who has the audacity to try it. I think i am insulting Pharaoh by calling him that, he's worst than Pharaoh. He's pure evil.
> 
> What's your point? You didn't tell me something i or any Muslim already doesn't know. Neither did i need any consolation about it from you nor is any Muslim afraid of Holy Quran being changed.
> 
> Are you saying what China is doing is fine because Allah has promised protection of Holy Quran?



Firaun was the worst tyrant who had ever lived, there is no one as bad as him before or after. Quran mentions him as such. So evil was he, even his shahdat at his death was not accepted. His body was preserved until 1990s for us to see as a warning for the coming Yawm ul Akhir (Last Day.)

Quran gives an open challenge to all to try to produce something like the Quran. If they want to do that, they are responsible for their own sins and Allah swt will directly punish them.

We should be like Abdul Mutallib, when Abraha's army came to destroy the Kaaba. He only asked for his herd of camels back, and when Abraha asked him about the Kaaba, he said "I am the owner of these camels and responsible for them, the Kaaba has an owner and He is responsible for it."

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## Pax Pakistanica

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Firaun was the worst tyrant who had ever lived, there is no one as bad as him before or after. Quran mentions him as such. So evil was he, even his shahdat at his death was not accepted. His body was preserved until 1990s for us to see as a warning for the coming Yawm ul Akhir (Last Day.)
> 
> Quran gives an open challenge to all to try to produce something like the Quran. If they want to do that, they are responsible for their own sins and Allah swt will directly punish them.
> 
> We should be like Abdul Mutallib, when Abraha's army came to destroy the Kaaba. He only asked for his herd of camels back, and when Abraha asked him about the Kaaba, he said "I am the owner of these camels and responsible for them, the Kaaba has an owner and He is responsible for it."



acha yaar, don't turn this forum into a theology course. What does this forum serve to do anyway? Update us the current situation of the Uyghurs, or just debate about a situation that we as Pakistanis cannot stop.


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## fisher1

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> We should be like Abdul Mutallib,



Is that something Islam teaches us to do or is it your understanding of Islam?

Islam is very clear what we should do when we see wrong. Do you want me to quote you Holy Quran and ahadith that clearly mentions the opposite of what you are preaching?


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

IlyasMyHero said:


> Is that something Islam teaches us to do or is it your understanding of Islam?
> 
> Islam is very clear what we should do when we see wrong. Do you want me to quote you Holy Quran and ahadith that clearly mentions the opposite of what you are preaching?



Allah swt Himself will protect the Quran and Kaaba. This is guaranteed by Him.

Your lack of knowledge or understanding is not my concern. Please be careful when you talk about Islamic subjects.

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## fisher1

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Allah swt Himself will protect the Quran and Kaaba. This is guaranteed by Him.
> 
> Your lack of knowledge or understanding is not my concerns. Please be careful when you talk about Islamic subjects.



So your role as a Muslim should be to cheer and support and defend the people and call them your iron brothers who try to edit Holy Quran because Allah has promised to protect Holy Quran?


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

IlyasMyHero said:


> So your role as a Muslim should be to cheer and support and defend the people and call them your iron brothers who try to edit Holy Quran because Allah has promised to protect Holy Quran?



Get some sleep and get ready for school in the morning, child.

No use being a puppet of CIA. We have bigger battles to fight yet. You will have plenty of time to show your outrage then.

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## fisher1

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Get some sleep and get ready for school in the morning, child.
> 
> No use being a puppet of CIA. We have bigger battles to fight yet. You will have plenty of time to show your outrage then.



What a pathetic response. "scoffs"


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

IlyasMyHero said:


> Is that something Islam teaches us to do or is it your understanding of Islam?
> 
> Islam is very clear what we should do when we see wrong. Do you want me to quote you Holy Quran and ahadith that clearly mentions the opposite of what you are preaching?






Unless those doing wrong are Americans..........



IlyasMyHero said:


> So your role as a Muslim should be to cheer and support and defend the people and call them your iron brothers who try to edit Holy Quran because Allah has promised to protect Holy Quran?






When did they edit the Qur'an? Where is your evidence?

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## fisher1

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Unless those doing wrong are Americans..........
> 
> When did they edit the Qur'an? Where is your evidence?



https://www.dailysabah.com/op-ed/2020/01/09/chinas-attempt-to-change-the-quran

https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/...uran-or-face-muslim-outrage-mapim-warns-china

What now? Are you going to grow a spine?


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

IlyasMyHero said:


> https://www.dailysabah.com/op-ed/2020/01/09/chinas-attempt-to-change-the-quran
> 
> https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/...uran-or-face-muslim-outrage-mapim-warns-china
> 
> What now? Are you going to grow a spine?





The SAME time you grow a pair and confront the Americans for killing 10 million Muslims globally since August 1990....................you seem okay with that....

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## fisher1

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> The SAME time you grow a pair and confront the Americans for killing 10 million Muslims globally since August 1990....................you seem okay with that....





What a waste of time even responding to you. You have only memorised a few lines which you repeat everytime you run out of response.


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## beijingwalker

*Turkish party head: Xinjiang people living in a brotherly atmosphere in China*

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## Itachi

@War Thunder @IlyasMyHero @Rusty @Ahmet Pasha @Taimur Khurram @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indos @Dubious 

*Busted*! 

Turn on the captions, turn on google translate for the whole page and watch the drama enfold. 

*
Chinese Deception to Indonesian Groups in Uighur Camp
*

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## beijingwalker

*Indonesia: We will not meddle in China’s Uighur debate*

INDONESIA
Tuesday, 24 Dec 2019

10:53 AM MYT
JAKARTA (ANN): Indonesia will not meddle in the alleged persecution of Uighur Muslims in China, a presidential advisor has said, in the latest statement to indicate Chinese pressure on the world’s largest Muslim-majority country.

Presidential Chief of Staff Moeldoko told reporters Monday (Dec 23) that the government would not be poking its nose in another country’s business, framing the plight of the Uighur as China’s internal affairs.


“Every country has the sovereign right to manage its own citizens, so the Indonesian government will not meddle in the internal affairs of China, ” Moeldoko said at his office in Jakarta, as quoted by Tempo.co.

His statement comes following fresh scrutiny against some of Indonesia’s largest Muslim groups, including Nahdlatul Ulama, Muhammadiyah and the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI), for accepting the advances of the Chinese government in the alleged internment of the Uighurs, a minority distinct from China's ethnic Han.

A recent Wall Street Journal report alleged that the organisations had been “persuaded” by the Chinese government to remain silent on the issue by sponsoring visits to the Xinjiang region, the location of the controversial Uighur “reeducation” camps.

Beijing has denied allegations of human rights violations against the Uighurs.

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/reg...ia-we-will-not-meddle-in-chinas-uighur-debate


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## Itachi

Damn....is the guy above a bot?? He literally posted that article within 5 mins of my post

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Itachi said:


> @War Thunder @IlyasMyHero @Rusty @Ahmet Pasha @Taimur Khurram @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indos @Dubious
> 
> *Busted*!
> 
> Turn on the captions, turn on google translate for the whole page and watch the drama enfold.
> 
> *
> Chinese Deception to Indonesian Groups in Uighur Camp
> *



It is clear that Pakistan will have to send its own fact-finding mission eventually, the pressure keeps ramping up on China and they are not able to effectively counter the claims of the West (exaggerated or not.)

I will watch the video and give my opinion later, brother.



Itachi said:


> Damn....is the guy above a bot?? He literally posted that article within 5 mins of my post



Several explanations. Either he was posting anyways or maybe he happened to be watching the thread.

Maybe these articles are bookmarks, ready to be posted at a moment's glance.

Quite a funny coincidence though.

Quite impressive @beijingwalker

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## Itachi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> It is clear that Pakistan will have to send its own fact-finding mission eventually, the pressure keeps ramping up on China and they are not able to effectively counter the claims of the West (exaggerated or not.)
> 
> I will watch the video and give my opinion later, brother.



Thanks bro!

Before the, "what about them" group comes in....I am all for a fair trial....all we're "supposed" to do is send in a fact finding team...not wage Jihad against China. 



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> It is clear that Pakistan will have to send its own fact-finding mission eventually, the pressure keeps ramping up on China and they are not able to effectively counter the claims of the West (exaggerated or not.)
> 
> I will watch the video and give my opinion later, brother.
> 
> 
> 
> Several explanations. Either he was posting anyways or maybe he happened to be watching the thread.
> 
> Maybe these articles are bookmarks, ready to be posted at a moment's glance.
> 
> Quite a funny coincidence though.
> 
> Quite impressive @beijingwalker



Him and another dude....post 1 min replies whenever (24/7 lol) they're online. Quite remarkable if I may say so myself.

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## War Thunder

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> It is clear that Pakistan will have to send its own fact-finding mission eventually, the pressure keeps ramping up on China and they are not able to effectively counter the claims of the West (exaggerated or not.)
> 
> I will watch the video and give my opinion later, brother.





too late and no use.
Pakistan should better wait for another fitnah for being cooperative with an oppressive regime, and turning blind eyes to the oppressed.

Our people are no better than indian muslims.
indian mulims are accused of never standing up for kashmiris and hence the fitnah reached their own homes today.
And we are pretty much responsible for never standing up for muslims in china. Any Muslim should have stood up on that even if there was a tiny bit of a reason to question.
But where are Muslims in Pakistan today? How many?



Itachi said:


> Thanks bro!
> 
> Before the, "what about them" group comes in....I am all for a fair trial....all we're "supposed" to do is send in a fact finding team...not wage Jihad against China.
> 
> 
> 
> Him and another dude....post 1 min replies whenever (24/7 lol) they're online. Quite remarkable if I may say so myself.




They are agents of the CCCP and here on a purpose.
If you think they will be here as normal Chinese while using VPN and spending entire day on this forum with that VPN instead of using it for other purposes then we are not thinking logically enough.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Itachi said:


> Thanks bro!
> 
> Before the, "what about them" group comes in....I am all for a fair trial....all we're "supposed" to do is send in a fact finding team...not wage Jihad against China.



My opinion is basically _Agnostic_ on this issue. Since I don't have facts, I cannot accuse the Chinese of even half the things the West accuses them of. Much of the proof seems to be doctored, but still questions need to be answered.

We need more Muslim countries sending missions and even some keeping permanent missions in Xinjiang to ensure the rights of Uyghur Turks are respected.

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## War Thunder

Itachi said:


> Damn....is the guy above a bot?? He literally posted that article within 5 mins of my post




His algorithms are designed to catch every post with the word "china" or Uyghurs/Xinjiang etc.
Try him and watch his speed.

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## Itachi

War Thunder said:


> They are agents of the CCCP and here on a purpose.
> If you think they will be here as normal Chinese while using VPN and spending entire day on this forum with that VPN instead of using it for other purposes then we are not thinking logically enough.



Oh I know that very well....

Anyone that leaps the Great Chinese Firewall just to post pro-China posts on PDF 24/7 has to have ulterior motives.



War Thunder said:


> His algorithms are designed to catch every post with the word "china" or Uyghurs/Xinjiang etc.
> Try him and watch his speed.



Dauym....this is hi tech now. 

Didn't know that! 



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> My opinion is basically _Agnostic_ on this issue. Since I don't have facts, I cannot accuse the Chinese of even half the things the West accuses them of. Much of the proof seems to be doctored, but still questions need to be answered.
> 
> We need more Muslim countries sending missions and even some keeping permanent missions in Xinjiang to ensure the rights of Uyghur Turks are respected.



Well there are many sources, Western or not, on the issue.....just because the source is western doesn't make it ill fit to believe in...

The first time I heard about the plight of the Rohingyas was from Western sources....obviously, the Western media has their motives/backers....but that doesn't negate that there's a issue in the first place. 

Either way, this new source is entirely Indonesian. Hope you and others watch it fully. Quite eye opening.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

War Thunder said:


> And we are pretty much responsible for never standing up for muslims in china.



We took in many Uyghurs as refugees. I met many in various places in Pakistan. They seem not to get along with China, but ofcourse these were the ones who had problems with their government. They were very kind and respectful. Mostly keep to themselves, run shops, attend Islamic programs, and enjoy their life in Pakistan.

I have alot of respect for Uyghur Turk brothers and sisters. May Allah swt bless them immensely and ease any difficulties they may have.

@Itachi 

Uyghur friend told me about this story, banned in China, but it expressed some unhappy feelings which the author had.

https://www.rfa.org/english/uyghur/wild_pigeon-20050627.html

I know _Radio Free Asia_ is a CIA propaganda website, but the poem is worth reading.

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## Itachi

*'This is mass rape': Uighur activist condemns program said to pay Chinese men to sleep with Uighur women to promote 'ethnic unity'*

WTF!? 







A Uighur activist has spoken out against China's "Pair Up and Become Family" program, in which Han Chinese men are sent to China's western region of Xinjiang to live with Uighur women, many of whose husbands have been sent to prison camps.

The program, first introduced in 2017, was discussed in an October report by Radio Free Asia that cited two unnamed Chinese officials. The report outlined a horrific program in which many of the Chinese men would often sleep in the same beds as the women.

"Normally one or two people sleep in one bed, and if the weather is cold, three people sleep together," one official told RFA.

"It is now considered normal for females to sleep on the same platform with their paired male 'relatives,'" he said in reference to the men, who are referred to as "relatives" even though they are not family. 

According to the report, these Chinese officials typically stay in Uighur households for up to six days at a time and work and eat with Uighur families while also discussing Communist Party political ideology.

"They help [the families] with their ideology, bringing new ideas," one official told RFA. "They talk to them about life, during which time they develop feelings for one another."

Chinese officials say the program is used to "promote ethnic unity," a second official told RFA, but it also lets the government keep close tabs on ethnic minorities living in China's western Xinjiang autonomous region. 

Rushan Abbas, a US-based Uighur activist whose family members have been detained in one of what is believed to be hundreds of detention centers in the region, told the Australian news outlet News.com.au that the program was promoting systemic rape against Uighur women.

"This is mass rape," she told News.com.au. "The government is offering money, housing, and jobs to Han people to come and marry Uighur people." She added that it was often difficult for Uighur women to refuse advances of these men because of the crackdown in the region against the minority group on the pretense of counterterrorism. 

*"Neither the girls nor their families can reject such a marriage because they will be viewed [by Chinese authorities] as Islamic extremists for not wanting to marry atheist Han Chinese," she told the outlet. "They have no choice but to marry them."*

"[The Han Chinese] have been raping Uighur women in the name of marriage for years," she added. 

China has been accused of running mass detention centers in Xinjiang. Interviews with people who were held in the camps reveal allegations of beatings and food deprivation as well as medical experimentation on prisoners.

China has acknowledged the existence of some "reeducation camps" but has repeatedly denied reports of abuse at its facilities.

The region has a population of about 10 million people, many of whom are Uighur or other ethnic minorities, and in May, US Assistant Secretary of Defense Randall Schriver said "at least a million but likely closer to 3 million citizens" were detained in these facilities.

The UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination last year called on China to "halt the practice of detaining individuals who have not been lawfully charged, tried, and convicted for a criminal offense in any extra-legal detention center." The committee also called out China's practice of racial and ethnic profiling and heavy-handed restrictions that disproportionately targeted the Uighur community. 

Satellite images reviewed by the Washington-based East Turkistan National Awakening Movement earlier this month identified at least 465 detention centers, labor camps, and suspected prisons in Xinjiang.

A recent leak of classified Chinese government documents known as the "China Cables" laid out a manual for exactly how the detention centers were to operate, from preventing escape by double locking all the doors to using a "points system" based on behavior that is linked "directly to rewards, punishments, and family visits."

Sources: https://www.businessinsider.com/uighur-activists-mass-rape-chinese-men-xinjiang-2019-12?r=US&IR=T

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-uighur-monitor-home-shared-bed-report-2019-11


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## bsruzm

Itachi said:


> *'This is mass rape': Uighur activist condemns program said to pay Chinese men to sleep with Uighur women to promote 'ethnic unity'*
> 
> WTF!?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Uighur activist has spoken out against China's "Pair Up and Become Family" program, in which Han Chinese men are sent to China's western region of Xinjiang to live with Uighur women, many of whose husbands have been sent to prison camps.
> 
> The program, first introduced in 2017, was discussed in an October report by Radio Free Asia that cited two unnamed Chinese officials. The report outlined a horrific program in which many of the Chinese men would often sleep in the same beds as the women.
> 
> "Normally one or two people sleep in one bed, and if the weather is cold, three people sleep together," one official told RFA.
> 
> "It is now considered normal for females to sleep on the same platform with their paired male 'relatives,'" he said in reference to the men, who are referred to as "relatives" even though they are not family.
> 
> According to the report, these Chinese officials typically stay in Uighur households for up to six days at a time and work and eat with Uighur families while also discussing Communist Party political ideology.
> 
> "They help [the families] with their ideology, bringing new ideas," one official told RFA. "They talk to them about life, during which time they develop feelings for one another."
> 
> Chinese officials say the program is used to "promote ethnic unity," a second official told RFA, but it also lets the government keep close tabs on ethnic minorities living in China's western Xinjiang autonomous region.
> 
> Rushan Abbas, a US-based Uighur activist whose family members have been detained in one of what is believed to be hundreds of detention centers in the region, told the Australian news outlet News.com.au that the program was promoting systemic rape against Uighur women.
> 
> "This is mass rape," she told News.com.au. "The government is offering money, housing, and jobs to Han people to come and marry Uighur people." She added that it was often difficult for Uighur women to refuse advances of these men because of the crackdown in the region against the minority group on the pretense of counterterrorism.
> 
> *"Neither the girls nor their families can reject such a marriage because they will be viewed [by Chinese authorities] as Islamic extremists for not wanting to marry atheist Han Chinese," she told the outlet. "They have no choice but to marry them."*
> 
> "[The Han Chinese] have been raping Uighur women in the name of marriage for years," she added.
> 
> China has been accused of running mass detention centers in Xinjiang. Interviews with people who were held in the camps reveal allegations of beatings and food deprivation as well as medical experimentation on prisoners.
> 
> China has acknowledged the existence of some "reeducation camps" but has repeatedly denied reports of abuse at its facilities.
> 
> The region has a population of about 10 million people, many of whom are Uighur or other ethnic minorities, and in May, US Assistant Secretary of Defense Randall Schriver said "at least a million but likely closer to 3 million citizens" were detained in these facilities.
> 
> The UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination last year called on China to "halt the practice of detaining individuals who have not been lawfully charged, tried, and convicted for a criminal offense in any extra-legal detention center." The committee also called out China's practice of racial and ethnic profiling and heavy-handed restrictions that disproportionately targeted the Uighur community.
> 
> Satellite images reviewed by the Washington-based East Turkistan National Awakening Movement earlier this month identified at least 465 detention centers, labor camps, and suspected prisons in Xinjiang.
> 
> A recent leak of classified Chinese government documents known as the "China Cables" laid out a manual for exactly how the detention centers were to operate, from preventing escape by double locking all the doors to using a "points system" based on behavior that is linked "directly to rewards, punishments, and family visits."
> 
> Sources: https://www.businessinsider.com/uighur-activists-mass-rape-chinese-men-xinjiang-2019-12?r=US&IR=T
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/china-uighur-monitor-home-shared-bed-report-2019-11


Don't they (Chinese) seem like abused society?


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## Itachi

bsruzm said:


> Don't they (Chinese) seem like abused society?



"Abused" would be taking the whole matter very lightly...


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## bsruzm

Itachi said:


> "Abused" would be taking the whole matter very lightly...


I am trying to be diplomatic lol


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## Itachi

bsruzm said:


> I am trying to be diplomatic lol



Would you be "diplomatic" if Turks were getting raped like that?? I think not...

Either way, aren't Uyghurs Turks too?


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## bsruzm

Itachi said:


> Would you be "diplomatic" if Turks were getting raped like that?? I think not...
> 
> Either way, aren't Uyghurs Turks too?


Don't worry, no sin goes unpunished. 

"If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you." Genghis Khan

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## fisher1

bsruzm said:


> Don't worry, no sin goes unpunished.
> 
> "If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you." Genghis Khan



The problem with that is when the punishment of God does come, everyone including innocents get caught in it. 

There's a new completely novel virus in China that just appeared in 2020. Wuhan virus. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-virus-wuhan-outbreak-medics-scan-plane-passengers-2020-1

Now, only God knows if it's a punishment from God or just another natural occurrence or a wakeup call. But it has scared the crap out of Chinese. 

It will probably jump to Pakistan too.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Itachi said:


> *'This is mass rape': Uighur activist condemns program said to pay Chinese men to sleep with Uighur women to promote 'ethnic unity'*
> 
> WTF!?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Uighur activist has spoken out against China's "Pair Up and Become Family" program, in which Han Chinese men are sent to China's western region of Xinjiang to live with Uighur women, many of whose husbands have been sent to prison camps.
> 
> The program, first introduced in 2017, was discussed in an October report by Radio Free Asia that cited two unnamed Chinese officials. The report outlined a horrific program in which many of the Chinese men would often sleep in the same beds as the women.
> 
> "Normally one or two people sleep in one bed, and if the weather is cold, three people sleep together," one official told RFA.
> 
> "It is now considered normal for females to sleep on the same platform with their paired male 'relatives,'" he said in reference to the men, who are referred to as "relatives" even though they are not family.
> 
> According to the report, these Chinese officials typically stay in Uighur households for up to six days at a time and work and eat with Uighur families while also discussing Communist Party political ideology.
> 
> "They help [the families] with their ideology, bringing new ideas," one official told RFA. "They talk to them about life, during which time they develop feelings for one another."
> 
> Chinese officials say the program is used to "promote ethnic unity," a second official told RFA, but it also lets the government keep close tabs on ethnic minorities living in China's western Xinjiang autonomous region.
> 
> Rushan Abbas, a US-based Uighur activist whose family members have been detained in one of what is believed to be hundreds of detention centers in the region, told the Australian news outlet News.com.au that the program was promoting systemic rape against Uighur women.
> 
> "This is mass rape," she told News.com.au. "The government is offering money, housing, and jobs to Han people to come and marry Uighur people." She added that it was often difficult for Uighur women to refuse advances of these men because of the crackdown in the region against the minority group on the pretense of counterterrorism.
> 
> *"Neither the girls nor their families can reject such a marriage because they will be viewed [by Chinese authorities] as Islamic extremists for not wanting to marry atheist Han Chinese," she told the outlet. "They have no choice but to marry them."*
> 
> "[The Han Chinese] have been raping Uighur women in the name of marriage for years," she added.
> 
> China has been accused of running mass detention centers in Xinjiang. Interviews with people who were held in the camps reveal allegations of beatings and food deprivation as well as medical experimentation on prisoners.
> 
> China has acknowledged the existence of some "reeducation camps" but has repeatedly denied reports of abuse at its facilities.
> 
> The region has a population of about 10 million people, many of whom are Uighur or other ethnic minorities, and in May, US Assistant Secretary of Defense Randall Schriver said "at least a million but likely closer to 3 million citizens" were detained in these facilities.
> 
> The UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination last year called on China to "halt the practice of detaining individuals who have not been lawfully charged, tried, and convicted for a criminal offense in any extra-legal detention center." The committee also called out China's practice of racial and ethnic profiling and heavy-handed restrictions that disproportionately targeted the Uighur community.
> 
> Satellite images reviewed by the Washington-based East Turkistan National Awakening Movement earlier this month identified at least 465 detention centers, labor camps, and suspected prisons in Xinjiang.
> 
> A recent leak of classified Chinese government documents known as the "China Cables" laid out a manual for exactly how the detention centers were to operate, from preventing escape by double locking all the doors to using a "points system" based on behavior that is linked "directly to rewards, punishments, and family visits."
> 
> Sources: https://www.businessinsider.com/uighur-activists-mass-rape-chinese-men-xinjiang-2019-12?r=US&IR=T
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/china-uighur-monitor-home-shared-bed-report-2019-11



The problem with this article are the sources. These are serious allegations which need more proof than just Radio Free Asia (CIA) correspondent hearsay or a US-based (employed) Uyghur activist.

An Australian newpaper and Singaporean website are not proof enough either.

We need hard, irrefutable proof to begin the process of applying pressure on China, if they are indeed guilty.

Probably there needs to be a conference arranged on this issue of like-minded countries. Turkey, Indonesia should top the list. US client states like KSA should be excluded. Ofcourse Iran, Taliban, Pakistan, and CARs should be part as well.

A joint fact-finding mission needs to be sent to Xinjiang, which includes Islamic scholars like Mufti Taqi Usmani, and representatives from the intelligentsia of Muslim countries.


----------



## Itachi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> The problem with this article are the sources. These are serious allegations which need more proof than just Radio Free Asia (CIA) correspondent hearsay or a US-based (employed) Uyghur activist.
> 
> An Australian newpaper and Singaporean website are not proof enough either.
> 
> We need hard, irrefutable proof to begin the process of applying pressure on China, if they are indeed guilty.
> 
> Probably there needs to be a conference arranged on this issue of like-minded countries. Turkey, Indonesia should top the list. US client states like KSA should be excluded. Ofcourse Iran, Taliban, Pakistan, and CARs should be part as well.
> 
> A joint fact-finding mission needs to be sent to Xinjiang, which includes Islamic scholars like Mufti Taqi Usmani, and representatives from the intelligentsia of Muslim countries.



It's hard to find proof and facts because of how much these camps are shrouded in secrecy. No international journalist is allowed in Xinjiang....that in itself is a cause for concern and is an eye raiser.

All "tours/visits" are highly manipulated too, as you can see from the Indonesian video I posted earlier. Any Uyghur that speaks up in detained & not to be seen....those that do speak up reside in the West or/& outside of China.

From a historical point of view, the Chinese aren't new to what they're being accused of doing. They have been doing similar acts, if not worse, to their own people for many centuries. One example are the Falun Gong, made up of an estimated 70 million Chinese (CCP source) who have been persecuted in a similar way the Uyghurs have been......killed, tortured & their organs harvested.

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## tower9

Itachi said:


> It's hard to find proof and facts because of how much these camps are shrouded in secrecy. No international journalist is allowed in Xinjiang....that in itself is a cause for concern and is an eye raiser.
> 
> All "tours/visits" are highly manipulated too, as you can see from the Indonesian video I posted earlier. Any Uyghur that speaks up in detained & not to be seen....those that do speak up reside in the West or/& outside of China.
> 
> From a historical point of view, the Chinese aren't new to what they're being accused of doing. They have been doing similar acts, if not worse, to their own people for many centuries. One example are the Falun Gong, made up of an estimated 70 million Chinese (CCP source) who have been persecuted in a similar way the Uyghurs have been......killed, tortured & their organs harvested.



I've read plenty of material refuting the Falungong claims of organ harvesting and how they haven't been able to provide any verifiable proof of this. But anyways, this is the way that Western smear propaganda works, just keep repeating smears and hope enough of it sticks. It is an effective tool. 

Honestly, while I don't agree with how the Chinese government handles Uyghur extremism, at the same time, a lot of the sources with the most extreme allegations can all be routed back to shadow organizations like the NED which is a branch of the CIA. It is a disinformation campaign. 

Looking at this situation from the perspective of Pakistan however, I can't imagine any logical Pakistani would want the Uyghurs to be independent. Think long and hard about it. Currently, you have a massive and powerful nation who borders you and has been very friendly. If Xinjiang becomes independent, what you will have will be a failed and weak state like Iraq where the CIA and US military can set up their bases to harass China proper and would either be useless to Pakistan or perhaps even hostile. Considering that Pakistan has a hostile regional rival that has 8 times its population, that would be a dark place to be in to lose China as a neighbor.

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## beijingwalker

tower9 said:


> Looking at this situation from the perspective of Pakistan however, I can't imagine any logical Pakistani would want the Uyghurs to be independent. Think long and hard about it. Currently, you have a massive and powerful nation who borders you and has been very friendly. If Xinjiang becomes independent, what you will have will be a failed and weak state like Iraq where the CIA and US military can set up their bases to harass China proper and would either be useless to Pakistan or perhaps even hostile. Considering that Pakistan has a hostile regional rival that has 8 times its population, that would be a dark place to be in to lose China as a neighbor.


True, China is the only non Muslim country Pakistan borders, and is also the only border that Pakistan doesn't have to worry about. If Xinjiang were an independent state, Pakistan will be totally isolated geographically, Xinjiang will develop into another hostile neigbor to Pakistan and source of terrorism. The only vital supply line to Pakistan from China in case of emergency will also be cut off, Iran, Afghanistan and India will have no worries to encroach Pakistani lands and sovereignty.
Some Pakistani posters here should be careful of what they wish for.


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## tower9

beijingwalker said:


> True, China is the only non Muslim country Pakistan borders, and is also the only border that Pakistan doesn't have to worry about. If Xinjiang were an independent state, Pakistan will be totally isolated geographically, Xinjiang will develop into another hostile neigbor to Pakistan and source of terrorism. The only vital supply line to Pakistan from China in case of emergency will also be cut off, Iran, Afghanistan and India will have no worries to encroach Pakistani lands and sovereignty.
> Some Pakistani posters here should be careful of what they wish for.



Xinjiang would be another Afghanistan. A failed state being infiltrated by Wahhabist CIA backed terrorist groups and kept in constant chaos so it can be easily dominated by the US to prevent Eurasian integration and the Belt and Road initiative from succeeding. That's really the main driver behind all of this Uyghur related propaganda, to disrupt Eurasian integration and foster hatred between China and the Muslim world.


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## beijingwalker

tower9 said:


> Xinjiang would be another Afghanistan. A failed state being infiltrated by Wahhabist CIA backed terrorist groups and kept in constant chaos so it can be easily dominated by the US to prevent Eurasian integration and the Belt and Road initiative from succeeding. That's really the main driver behind all of this Uyghur related propaganda, to disrupt Eurasian integration and foster hatred between China and the Muslim world.



The most likely Uighur state leader if Xinjiang became an independent state. Rebiya Kadeer.

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## tower9

beijingwalker said:


> The most likely Uighur state leader if Xinjiang became an independent state. Rebiya Kadeer.



Honestly the reality is that China is getting crushed by the US disinformation campaign. The US is a master at propaganda because it has a free society, so it understands how to propagate propaganda and smears it's enemies with the illusion that this is free speech and free media at work when in fact, most of the media sources in the US are controlled by a handful of corporate conglomerate who are often fed foreign news against geopolitical rivals through CIA sponsored information sources. 

China on the other hand is a complete idiot when it comes to propaganda. That's why it has to resort to clumsy and heavy handed tactics like detention centers to control extremism in Xinjiang. That's also why China has been largely ineffective in fighting against and responding to the American disinformation campaign. 

This is like comparing the popular manipulative asshole White guy who is using smear tactics and getting everyone at school to hate the socially retarded, socially stunted Asian nerd. In the end, it works because the nerd is too socially retarded to respond effectively. It doesn't change the fact that the White guy is the more evil one in the end.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

tower9 said:


> Looking at this situation from the perspective of Pakistan however, I can't imagine any logical Pakistani would want the Uyghurs to be independent. Think long and hard about it. Currently, you have a massive and powerful nation who borders you and has been very friendly. If Xinjiang becomes independent, what you will have will be a failed and weak state like Iraq where the CIA and US military can set up their bases to harass China proper and would either be useless to Pakistan or perhaps even hostile. Considering that Pakistan has a hostile regional rival that has 8 times its population, that would be a dark place to be in to lose China as a neighbor.



The issue is not about Uyghur independence, as that is a distant dream. No neighbor of Xinjiang supports it. Maybe in the future I could see it, but not anytime soon. Of course, Pakistan has cultural, racial, linguistic, and religious affinity with Uyghurs. We share much more in common with Uyghurs than we do with the Chinese.

The allegations are disturbing from a humanitarian and Islamic perspective, as we put much focus on the honor and dignity of Muslim women. Indeed, India was invaded by the Islamic Banu Ummaya empire because one Hindu slapped a Muslim woman in the face.

However, it is good for China that so far all allegations have been from CIA puppets, which most Muslims do not believe anymore after the lies perpetuated to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, and continued lies against Iran, Turkey, and Pakistan.



tower9 said:


> Xinjiang would be another Afghanistan. A failed state being infiltrated by Wahhabist CIA backed terrorist groups and kept in constant chaos so it can be easily dominated by the US to prevent Eurasian integration and the Belt and Road initiative from succeeding. That's really the main driver behind all of this Uyghur related propaganda, to disrupt Eurasian integration and foster hatred between China and the Muslim world.



I would ask you to stop using Wahhabi as a blanket term, as it is disingenuous. We are talking about a sensitive issue, let us not sully it with Western doctored terminology which has no meaning on the ground.

Afghanistan has been forced into war/proxy war constantly for the last few hundred years. Yet because of this, we see that today, it is the only place absolutely free of Western influence in the Muslim world and the only place where US has failed utterly to gain a foothold.

There are many positive signs coming from Afghanistan, and it will be very important in the future.

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## tower9

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> The issue is not about Uyghur independence, as that is a distant dream. No neighbor of Xinjiang supports it. Maybe in the future I could see it, but not anytime soon. Of course, Pakistan has cultural, racial, linguistic, and religious affinity with Uyghurs. We share much more in common with Uyghurs than we do with the Chinese.
> 
> The allegations are disturbing from a humanitarian and Islamic perspective, as we put much focus on the honor and dignity of Muslim women. Indeed, India was invaded by the Islamic Banu Ummaya empire because one Hindu slapped a Muslim woman in the face.
> 
> However, it is good for China that so far all allegations have been from CIA puppets, which most Muslims do not believe anymore after the lies perpetuated to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, and continued lies against Iran, Turkey, and Pakistan.



Most of the extreme allegations like rape, torture, etc come from CIA funded sources. The same sources who say that Soleimani helped the 911 hijackers, that Iraq had WMD, etc etc. This is a disinformation campaign meant to create discord between China and the Moslem world, PERIOD. 

I mean, do you think China is stupid? Ultimately it still wants to govern the region and win over the general population, by randomly raping women which will lead to jihad, it will only destroy any chances of this possibility. Also keep in mind that most of the people running the state apparatus in Xinjiang is Uighur, it's another tactic by China to keep the population dependent and loyal to China. 

Look honestly, I hate a lot of modern Chinese society's attitudes and I see how they have contributed to ethnic tensions in the region. But in the end, China isn't stupid. It's end goal is to govern the region effectively. The reality is that the hysteria being produced in the global media is driven by a CIA disinformation campaign and the logic is simple, the greatest threat to American global domination is the rise of a powerful, connected and RICH Eurasia which will shift the global economy to the heart of Asia and the US, EU and Japan which form the G-8 will be pushed to the margins. This is why it is imperative that the US destroy Eurasian integration, sow discord between China and the Moslem world and destroy the Belt and Road initiative. Xinjiang is the crux of that. 

You wonder why you don't hear much about Tibet anymore? Because it's nowhere as geopolitically important as Xinjiang when it comes to Eurasian integration.

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## beijingwalker

tower9 said:


> You wonder why you don't hear much about Tibet anymore? Because it's nowhere as geopolitically important as Xinjiang when it comes to Eurasian integration.


Tibet is a lost cause for the west and they found a better card to play, so, suddenly, Xinjiang is everywhere, it's like China suddenly started doing something that she hadn't done in the whole history in Xinjiang, Tibet was gone without a trace it's like what happened 10 year ago no longer happening now in Tibet.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> Tibet is a lost cause for the west and they found a better card to play, so, suddenly, Xinjiang is everywhere, it's like China suddenly started doing something that she hadn't done in the whole history in Xinjiang, Tibet was gone without a trace it's like what happened 10 year ago isn't still happening now in Tibet.



Yes, this makes perfect sense. However, Muslims are much less popular in the West and Muslims are far more distrustful of Western propaganda. It is not going to go anywhere.

However, China should open up to like-minded countries who have trust in the Muslim world to discredit these lies. China should reach out to Islamic scholars and scholar councils to help fight the propaganda. It will vanish very rapidly if it is done. As I stated before, a personality like Mufti Taqi Usmani is an authority in both Pakistan and Afghanistan, even the Taliban come to him regularly for advice. Perhaps China can look to someone like this.







Another scholar is Indian fugitive, Dr. Zakir Naik, who personally fell out of favor with Modi due to his ability to convert Hindus. He is currently in Malaysia now, and although he is posting stuff about Uyghurs, he would be easy to bring to your side provided you make him aware of the situation. He has been vocal against India and supportive of Kashmiris' independence. He still has millions of followers all over the world and is widely respected among Muslims.






China needs positive PR, you are severely lacking in this aspect. You have to learn to fight the US in this battle.


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## tower9

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Yes, this makes perfect sense. However, Muslims are much less popular in the West and Muslims are far more distrustful of Western propaganda. It is not going to go anywhere.
> 
> However, China should open up to like-minded countries who have trust in the Muslim world to discredit these lies. China should reach out to Islamic scholars and scholar councils to help fight the propaganda. It will vanish very rapidly if it is done. As I stated before, a personality like Mufti Taqi Usmani is an authority in both Pakistan and Afghanistan, even the Taliban come to him regularly for advice. Perhaps China can look to someone like this.
> 
> China needs positive PR, you are severely lacking in this aspect. You have to learn to fight the US in this battle.



China is too socially retarded to have good PR. Just look at the quality of Chinese propaganda, it's like a five year old made it. Many people I meet from China have little social skills and do not know how to charm or interact with people whose cultures are different from them. They have zero cool factor. Compare Chinese propaganda to Russian propaganda and it is night and day. Russians have far more social intelligence. 

With that said, look at who is propagating the Uyghur propaganda, it's the same American politicians who support banning Muslims, wars that have killed hundreds of thousands in the Middle East, who push crude propaganda of Muslims in the West, yet suddenly these top notch Muslim haters are concerned about poor little Muslims in Western China? 

Their propaganda campaign is working though because one thing American media manipulators understand is that most people are 

1. Dumb

2. Lack critical thinking skills

3. Will believe anything enough as long as you repeat it

4. Will discredit information coming from anybody who you smear 

So that is how American propaganda thrives in a "free society" (which is in fact still highly censored with the illusion that there is free speech, yes, you can say whatever you want, but most people who say things contrary to the powers that be have their views marginalized or discredited). The goal with the Uyghur disinformation campaign is two fold, get 1. Americans to hate China and 2. Muslims to hate China. End goal is to contain China and destroy Eurasian integration. It's working.

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## beijingwalker

US has a bad record of throwing countries under the bus after it successfully started troubles and made them at each others' throats, Afghanistan, Iraq, even Pakistan to some extent, don't understand why still so many people fall for their this trick every time US uses it, it's the oldest trick in their playbook.

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## War Thunder

tower9 said:


> I've read plenty of material refuting the Falungong claims of organ harvesting and how they haven't been able to provide any verifiable proof of this. But anyways, this is the way that Western smear propaganda works, just keep repeating smears and hope enough of it sticks. It is an effective tool.
> 
> Honestly, while I don't agree with how the Chinese government handles Uyghur extremism, at the same time, a lot of the sources with the most extreme allegations can all be routed back to shadow organizations like the NED which is a branch of the CIA. It is a disinformation campaign.
> 
> Looking at this situation from the perspective of Pakistan however, I can't imagine any logical Pakistani would want the Uyghurs to be independent. Think long and hard about it. Currently, you have a massive and powerful nation who borders you and has been very friendly. If Xinjiang becomes independent, what you will have will be a failed and weak state like Iraq where the CIA and US military can set up their bases to harass China proper and would either be useless to Pakistan or perhaps even hostile. Considering that Pakistan has a hostile regional rival that has 8 times its population, that would be a dark place to be in to lose China as a neighbor.





What the Chinese regime is trying is no different than what several tyrants have tried to subjugate hostile or rebellious populations.
None of those tyrants lasted for too long.

You win over people by taking care of their objections and problems that give way to rebellion.
Not by trying to indoctrinate them and force them to do something and cultivating generations of hatred that will come to bite China soon enough.
I know you folk have little to do with religion or spirituality, but I am sure you would believe in Karma.

Chinese govt could easily make Xinjiang a more autonomous region with its own people elected government and seek Pakistani help to keep things in check.

I don't care what has transpired in Afghanistan or Iran or India. The point is, has Pakistan as a nation and society survived all the mess on its borders and didn't let it affect the national hegemony? Yes we have, and there is a lesson to learn for China and others.

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## beijingwalker

War Thunder said:


> You win over people by taking care of their objections and problems that give way to rebellion.
> Not by trying to indoctrinate them and force them to do something and cultivating generations of hatred that will come to bite China soon enough.
> I know you folk have little to do with religion or spirituality, but I am sure you would believe in Karma.


China did have her fair share of terrorism problems like very country does, but there are no rebellions or insurgencies anywhere in China, that's something most countries can learn from China, providing a peaceful and stable environment for the economic and social development.

When it comes to trying to indoctrinate people and force them to do something, the first country comes to my mind is Turkey, they were indeed very successful after departing from today's north China and conquered, assimilated and converted peoples from vast regions all the way from central Asia to east Europe.


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## Char

War Thunder said:


> What the Chinese regime is trying is no different than what several tyrants have tried to subjugate hostile or rebellious populations.
> None of those tyrants lasted for too long.
> 
> You win over people by taking care of their objections and problems that give way to rebellion.
> Not by trying to indoctrinate them and force them to do something and cultivating generations of hatred that will come to bite China soon enough.
> I know you folk have little to do with religion or spirituality, but I am sure you would believe in Karma.
> 
> Chinese govt could easily make Xinjiang a more autonomous region with its own people elected government and seek Pakistani help to keep things in check.
> 
> I don't care what has transpired in Afghanistan or Iran or India. The point is, has Pakistan as a nation and society survived all the mess on its borders and didn't let it affect the national hegemony? Yes we have, and there is a lesson to learn for China and others.



China will not give up the feasible way, except some propaganda outside China everything is fine, we never follow others advice that why China succeeds.

China is the only time test big country in the world.


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## War Thunder

Char said:


> except some propaganda outside China everything is fine, we never follow others advice that why China succeeds.




Is that what they teach you in school?
That the Internet outage and consumption what only the government wants to feed you is all that is keeping you alive?

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## Char

War Thunder said:


> Is that what they teach you in school?
> That the Internet outage and consumption what only the government wants to feed you is all that is keeping you alive?



I'm not the one can be fooled by CPC, West or religions.


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## -SINAN-

Char said:


> China will not give up the feasible way, except some propaganda outside China everything is fine, we never follow others advice that why China succeeds.
> 
> China is the only time test big country in the world.


What i don't understand is; you are all calling foreign allegations as propaganda. It is fine, it may be propaganda.
Then why don't you come with your own version of propaganda and convince people otherwise?

So far foreign propaganda seem to be successful.

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## Char

-SINAN- said:


> What i don't understand is; you are all calling foreign allegations as propaganda. It is fine, it may be propaganda.
> Then why don't you come with your own version of propaganda and convince people otherwise?
> 
> So far foreign propaganda seem to be successful.



Just enjoy your success!


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## -SINAN-

Char said:


> Just enjoy your success!


I have asked a genuine question and i don't own a media outlet.

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## fisher1

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> We need hard, irrefutable proof to begin the process of applying pressure on China, if they are indeed guilty.



What are your thoughts on ICIJ? The same people that brought Panamaleaks? 

Are they credible enough for you?


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## fisher1

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> although he is posting stuff about Uyghurs, he would be easy to bring to your side provided you make him aware of the situation. He has been vocal against India and supportive of Kashmiris' independence. He still has millions of followers all over the world and is widely respected among Muslims.



Please don't insult Dr Zakir Naik. For him to speak in favor of China would be akin to him pissing and taking a huge dump on all his life's work and becoming the hypocrite of century. He's persecuted for Islam by a tyrant, how foolish of you to think he will bow down to a bigger tyrant than Modi can ever be?


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## tower9

War Thunder said:


> What the Chinese regime is trying is no different than what several tyrants have tried to subjugate hostile or rebellious populations.
> None of those tyrants lasted for too long.
> 
> You win over people by taking care of their objections and problems that give way to rebellion.
> Not by trying to indoctrinate them and force them to do something and cultivating generations of hatred that will come to bite China soon enough.
> I know you folk have little to do with religion or spirituality, but I am sure you would believe in Karma.
> 
> Chinese govt could easily make Xinjiang a more autonomous region with its own people elected government and seek Pakistani help to keep things in check.
> 
> I don't care what has transpired in Afghanistan or Iran or India. The point is, has Pakistan as a nation and society survived all the mess on its borders and didn't let it affect the national hegemony? Yes we have, and there is a lesson to learn for China and others.



Yeah, that's not going to happen bud. China is run like a corporation, you think they are going to just throw their hands up and let a labor union in to start dictating things?

I agree that a lot of Chinese attitudes and policies (not the fake news policies propagated by the Western media but the long term policies that have engendered ethnic tensions) have caused a good deal of ethnic tension in Xinjiang, along with the natural desire of Uyghurs to have independence when all of their Turkic cousins around them are already independent, however, at this point introducing electoral democracy will basically be like pouring fuel on the fire.

China's best bet is to combine economic development and prosperity for the Uyghurs (which they are already doing) with a nuanced and culturally sensitive approach (which they are incapable of). So basically Xinjiang will hobble along and a lid will be used to keep tensions covered but simmering. As far as the sensationalistic news you hear on the US media though, most of that is CIA created fake news. It's not that hard to understand the agenda.

And you're wrong about tyrants not lasting long. The thing is, if the PRC was seen as a tyrant by most of its own population, it will be overthrown. But the PRC has great legitimacy among the Han so it will keep control on Xinjiang.

Look at what happened to the Native Americans, the Australians, they were hunted down, massacred and treated like pests and destroyed, did this damage the credibility of the US and Australian governments? Nope. What China is doing is not 1/10000th what White Western settlers have done to their natives BTW. Xinjiang has been a part of China continuously since the first American colonies were settled and prior to that was first incorporated into China during the Roman Empire and to this day the Uyghurs still have their culture and identity intact. 

I've been to plenty of Native American reservations and I can tell you they would kill to have what the Uyghurs still have today, which is an entire society that exists based on their native language, religion rich with media and cultural institutions, entire cities filled with their own people. Most Native reservations are depressing, deep in poverty, the people broken and living in despair with a bottle of alcohol in their hand.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

tower9 said:


> China is too socially retarded to have good PR. Just look at the quality of Chinese propaganda, it's like a five year old made it. Many people I meet from China have little social skills and do not know how to charm or interact with people whose cultures are different from them. They have zero cool factor. Compare Chinese propaganda to Russian propaganda and it is night and day. Russians have far more social intelligence.
> 
> With that said, look at who is propagating the Uyghur propaganda, it's the same American politicians who support banning Muslims, wars that have killed hundreds of thousands in the Middle East, who push crude propaganda of Muslims in the West, yet suddenly these top notch Muslim haters are concerned about poor little Muslims in Western China?
> 
> Their propaganda campaign is working though because one thing American media manipulators understand is that most people are
> 
> 1. Dumb
> 
> 2. Lack critical thinking skills
> 
> 3. Will believe anything enough as long as you repeat it
> 
> 4. Will discredit information coming from anybody who you smear
> 
> So that is how American propaganda thrives in a "free society" (which is in fact still highly censored with the illusion that there is free speech, yes, you can say whatever you want, but most people who say things contrary to the powers that be have their views marginalized or discredited). The goal with the Uyghur disinformation campaign is two fold, get 1. Americans to hate China and 2. Muslims to hate China. End goal is to contain China and destroy Eurasian integration. It's working.



The vast majority of Muslims have lost all trust in the US and its puppets. If even the US said, "The sky is blue, and grass is green," We would not believe it.

US is an ailing power which has discredited itself to such an extent that it is a curse and shame to be associated with it in the Muslim world.



beijingwalker said:


> When it comes to trying to indoctrinate people and force them to do something, the first country comes to my mind is Turkey, they were indeed very successful after departing from today's north China and conquered, assimilated and converted peoples from vast regions all the way from central Asia to east Europe.



Let's not go into racial slandering others. We are having a positive discussion on how to disprove Western lies.

Anti-Turkism is hugely unpopular in the Muslim world. You have to remember that Turks have been heroes and scholars in the Islamic world for the past 500 years.

It was under Turkish empires that Muslims conquered Eastern Europe, India, and Central Asia, we successfully recovered after the joint attacks by Crusaders and Mongols.



IlyasMyHero said:


> Please don't insult Dr Zakir Naik. For him to speak in favor of China would be akin to him pissing and taking a huge dump on all his life's work and becoming the hypocrite of century. He's persecuted for Islam by a tyrant, how foolish of you to think he will bow down to a *bigger tyrant than Modi can ever be*?



Wow, I am utterly in shock at your statement. It reveals your mindset.

Please avoid quoting me on this topic in the future.



tower9 said:


> Yeah, that's not going to happen bud. China is run like a corporation, you think they are going to just throw their hands up and let a labor union in to start dictating things?
> 
> I agree that a lot of Chinese attitudes and policies (not the fake news policies propagated by the Western media but the long term policies that have engendered ethnic tensions) have caused a good deal of ethnic tension in Xinjiang, along with the natural desire of Uyghurs to have independence when all of their Turkic cousins around them are already independent, however, at this point introducing electoral democracy will basically be like pouring fuel on the fire.
> 
> China's best bet is to combine economic development and prosperity for the Uyghurs (which they are already doing) with a nuanced and culturally sensitive approach (which they are incapable of). So basically Xinjiang will hobble along and a lid will be used to keep tensions covered but simmering. As far as the sensationalistic news you hear on the US media though, most of that is CIA created fake news. It's not that hard to understand the agenda.
> 
> And you're wrong about tyrants not lasting long. The thing is, if the PRC was seen as a tyrant by most of its own population, it will be overthrown. But the PRC has great legitimacy among the Han so it will keep control on Xinjiang.
> 
> Look at what happened to the Native Americans, the Australians, they were hunted down, massacred and treated like pests and destroyed, did this damage the credibility of the US and Australian governments? Nope. What China is doing is not 1/10000th what White Western settlers have done to their natives BTW. Xinjiang has been a part of China continuously since the first American colonies were settled and prior to that was first incorporated into China during the Roman Empire and to this day the Uyghurs still have their culture and identity intact.
> 
> I've been to plenty of Native American reservations and I can tell you they would kill to have what the Uyghurs still have today, which is an entire society that exists based on their native language, religion rich with media and cultural institutions, entire cities filled with their own people. Most Native reservations are depressing, deep in poverty, the people broken and living in despair with a bottle of alcohol in their hand.




Very sensible and neutral post. People need to see this side of Chinese members more often. You remind me of @viva_zhao Unfortunately banned, but he was a very articulate and friendly Chinese poster to Pakistan and Muslim causes.

China needs to step up the propaganda warfare against the US, you can learn a thing or two from Russia in that aspect.

Turkey and Iran have openly resisted US pressure recently, unfortunately Pakistan is not quite there yet. They are also worth studying.

Iranian propaganda is so strong, the liberal part of America believes everything they say.


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## fisher1

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Wow, I am utterly in shock at your statement. It reveals your mindset.
> 
> Please avoid quoting me on this topic in the future.



Let's see.

Xi Jinping is torturing Uighurs to give up Allah, he makes them shout swear words, he forces them to eat pork and alcohol, stop them from fasting, praying, made mosques as tourist spots for money, edit Holy Quran, rape women, considers Islam a mental illness, a virus that needs to be stopped, kidnap Muslim kids to raise them as atheists. 

Modi wants land of Kashmir. He hates Muslims and murders them.

Modi is an angel compared to Xi Jinping. America, zionists are angels compared to Xi Jinping. Modi will kill me (give me shahadat), Xi Jinping wants to condemn me to eternal hellfire.

I have thought about this if i was to suffer. I would like the suffering of Modi, Israel, American bombs to my face happily than live a day of happiness of Xi Jinping as a Uighur without Islam. Xi Jinping doesn't have a problem with atheist Uighurs, he only has a problem with Muslims who practice Islam. He is giving economic stability and happiness to atheist Uighurs, it's the Islam infected mentally ill Muslims who get tortured, raped.

Muslims in the days of Jahiliya by Mushrikeen were thrown to burn in hot sand, tortured to give up Allah. They were promised treasures, women and all the good of this world to give up Allah. Uighurs are suffering the same.

I'll stop quoting you with pleasure. Stop mudslinging Islamic heroes like Dr Zakir Naik. Dr Zakir Naik was the only Muslim leader with fame (after Erdoğan) who spoke for Uighurs and didn't let the fear and power of Pharaoh Xi Jinping sway him.

He understands that la ilaha illallah muhammadur rasulullah (saww) is more precious than this world and everything in it. Death is a mercy to Muslim and giving up Allah is the oppression of the scale of eternity.


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## tower9

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> The vast majority of Muslims have lost all trust in the US and its puppets. If even the US said, "The sky is blue, and grass is green," We would not believe it.
> 
> US is an ailing power which has discredited itself to such an extent that it is a curse and shame to be associated with it in the Muslim world.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's not go into racial slandering others. We are having a positive discussion on how to disprove Western lies.
> 
> Anti-Turkism is hugely unpopular in the Muslim world. You have to remember that Turks have been heroes and scholars in the Islamic world for the past 500 years.
> 
> It was under Turkish empires that Muslims conquered Eastern Europe, India, and Central Asia, we successfully recovered after the joint attacks by Crusaders and Mongols.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, I am utterly in shock at your statement. It reveals your mindset.
> 
> Please avoid quoting me on this topic in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very sensible and neutral post. People need to see this side of Chinese members more often. You remind me of @viva_zhao Unfortunately banned, but he was a very articulate and friendly Chinese poster to Pakistan and Muslim causes.
> 
> China needs to step up the propaganda warfare against the US, you can learn a thing or two from Russia in that aspect.
> 
> Turkey and Iran have openly resisted US pressure recently, unfortunately Pakistan is not quite there yet. They are also worth studying.
> 
> Iranian propaganda is so strong, the liberal part of America believes everything they say.



Well, a lot of Muslims still believe CIA induced propaganda about China so it is effective. 

China isn't capable of producing propaganda to match the West. The West is far ahead in this narrative as Western media is globally dominant. Although the ironic thing is that if China were to combat the US's reputation in the Muslim world, it would be easy pickings as no other country has murdered more Muslims in the past 20 years as the US.

China's state owned media is staid and boring, it isn't crafted in an atmosphere of extreme competition (read shit smearing) as Western media is. You see, the goals between Chinese and Western media is different. Chinese media is designed to keep people calm and easy to govern, that's why they over-censor things, they do not report negative stories, this is designed to keep social, ethnic and political tensions low so society can stay calm and progress economically. 

Western media is designed to sell sensationalism so fake news abounds like wild fire. Shit smearing and destroying your enemy's reputation is the order of the day. So no matter how ridiculous a story is, it will get air time because it sells coverage. Western media is about getting people angry, that way they will tune in. 

China is completely incapable of matching the power of Western media. It's probably good enough as a lullaby to put babies to sleep though.

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## Beast

-SINAN- said:


> What i don't understand is; you are all calling foreign allegations as propaganda. It is fine, it may be propaganda.
> Then why don't you come with your own version of propaganda and convince people otherwise?
> 
> So far foreign propaganda seem to be successful.


Of cos ,its not propaganda. But backed by facts, satellite and even witnesses.. State media doesnt mean propaganda. Feel free to rebuke or prove how CPC destroyed Uyghur grave which proves to be fake by this video.


----------



## beijingwalker

This popular teenager Uighur vlogger girl received the Silver Award from Youtube to honor her for building up the number of her followers to over 100,000 in just one year on her Youtube channel, she is so happy for being recognized by overseas social media channels.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

CCP bot at it again.

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## vi-va

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> CCP bot at it again.


You need to improve your propaganda skill. Slander is an art of war.

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## beijingwalker

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> CCP bot at it again.


The award was given by Youtube, not CCP.

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## W.11

not sure if chinese or uygher.

i guess thats exactly what the CCP wants

regards


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## beijingwalker

W.11 said:


> not sure if chinese or uygher.
> 
> i guess thats exactly what the CCP wants
> 
> regards


A Chinese and an Uighur， you can't even tell an Uighur? Seems you know nothing about anything of them.

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## vi-va

beijingwalker said:


> A Chinese and an Uighur， you can't even tell an Uighur? Seems you know nothing about anything of them.


Beautiful Chinese Uighur girl.

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## beijingwalker

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> I'm talking about you, dummy.


Haha, a dummy like you thinks everything is CCP, even Youtube.



viva_zhao said:


> Beautiful Chinese Uighur girl.


Kind of ultra nationlist sometimes, she claims that China is the single greatest country in the world and other countries,especially those western countries who attack China are nothing compare to China, we built a top hosptial in 10 days which usually takes 5 or 6 years in other countries, this is like a miracle that only can be done by Aladdin lamp, what those countries who smear China can do? they just envy us and we could just ignore them.

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## Nan Yang

beijingwalker said:


> This popular teenager Uighur vlogger girl received the Silver Award from Youtube to honor her for building up the number of her followers to over 100,000 in just one year on her Youtube channel, she is so happy for being recognized by overseas social media channels.


Congratulations. Syabas!

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## dbc

beijingwalker said:


> This popular teenager Uighur vlogger girl received the Silver Award from Youtube to honor her for building up the number of her followers to over 100,000 in just one year on her Youtube channel, she is so happy for being recognized by overseas social media channels.



Who got the Gold Award? Baghdad Bob?

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## fitpOsitive

beijingwalker said:


> This popular teenager Uighur vlogger girl received the Silver Award from Youtube to honor her for building up the number of her followers to over 100,000 in just one year on her Youtube channel, she is so happy for being recognized by overseas social media channels.


I wonder, which company might be manufacturing this silver thing?


----------



## Arulmozhi Varman

Isnt YouTube "banned" as well in 'open, transparent CPC' China?

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## Beast

Arulmozhi Varman said:


> Isnt YouTube "banned" as well in 'open, transparent CPC' China?


But is not banned in rest of the world, right? So???

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## beijingwalker

As a teenager, she's already been making millions through her various channels on the Chinese and foreign social media channels.

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## rott

Beast said:


> But is not banned in rest of the world, right? So???


In a way, they don't know that our firewall is a benefit for them. If we didn't have any firewall, the Chinese would swarm the entire YouTube and Facebook, it'll be a massive slaughter for other users.

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## beijingwalker

rott said:


> In a way, they don't know that our firewall is a benefit for them. If we didn't have any firewall, the Chinese would swarm the entire YouTube and Facebook, it'll be a massive slaughter for other users.


So will be PDF.

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## eldamar

beijingwalker said:


> So will be PDF.


我是五十元党员


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## rott

eldarlmari said:


> 我是五十元党员


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## beijingwalker

little Uighur girl Tik Tok home page: My dream is to become the best diplomat of China after I grow up, some foreigngers say that my dream will never come true because China will never allow ethnic minority to become diplomats, but you don't know that the first female diplomat of PRC was actually an ethnic Mongol, I tell you, this is China, where ethnic discrimination is non existent, don't compare your countries with our China, cause you are sooooo..far behind us.

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## beijingwalker

W.11 said:


> does she eat pork, dogs, bats etc? because she cant really be a true chinese without adopting hallmarks of chinese cuisine.
> 
> regards


Chinese people eat pork, only extremely few people eat dog meat, mainly ethnic Koreans and people from Guangdong and Guangxi region, no one eats bats. US first blame the virus from a Chinese wet market and now claims that it was from a Chinese lab, they better make up their mind first before continue their blaming game.

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## beijingwalker

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> Outstanding, @beijingwalker!Your CCP masters will be proud of your propaganda efforts.


I m not a CCP member and have never applied, I don't believe in communism, very few people in China do, it's an Utopian idea, CCP is just a title to have legitimacy to rule, I doubt any CCP members really believe it.

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## T-123456

Hamartia Antidote said:


> You and at least 20 other Chinese members


I'm a member of the wolfpack.

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## Slav Defence

*Stick to the topic.
*


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## eldamar

Hamartia Antidote said:


> View attachment 629628
> 
> You and at least 20 other Chinese members


I said I am a member of the 50 dollars club- u have any idea what that means?

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang Urumqi new Children's hospital completed, 1200 beds with world top facilities, one of the best and most comprehensive dedicated modern hospitals for children.
*
乌鲁木齐儿童医院（城北）建设项目主体工程封顶*

新疆
2020-04-17 11:56:43
来源：新疆日报
乌鲁木齐儿童医院（城北）建设项目是自治区和乌鲁木齐市重点建设项目的续建项目，于2017年5月批准立项，同年9月开工建设。

项目突出儿童重症救治、儿童康复、儿童保健、儿童血液、儿童传染病专业特色，是集医疗、科研、教学、预防保健和康复为一体的现代化综合性儿童医院。主要建设门诊医技住院楼、康复保健中心7层、血液中心7层、科研培训中心13层、感染中心6层、儿童科普医疗展馆中心3层等。共设置床位1200张、停车场停车泊位1680个，设置电梯59部。

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## beijingwalker

In some people's eyes this world top class modern children's hospital may look like a giant concentration camp for Uighur kids...

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## bsruzm

You remind me of a part from Orkhon Inscriptions.


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang Urumqi Olympic park almost finished







30000 seat modern all purpose stadium, 12000 seats gymnasium, 2000 seats track and field stadium, 3000 seats swimming center, public sports center for variou sports, boxing, gym, badminton, tennis..., hotel complex for athletes and tourists.

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## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang's highways, bullet trains, subways, hospitals..all glistening and brand new, in another decade, Xinjiang will leave most of the western countries in the dust and become one of the top developed regions in the world, but funny thing is many of those who have trouble putting food on the table for their children still have time and strength to feel sorry for Xinjiang, they really should feel sorry for themselves and their families.

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## tower9

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang's highways, bullet trains, subways, hospitals..all glistening and brand new, in another decade, Xinjiang will leave most of the western countries in the dust and become one of the top developed regions in the world, but funny thing is many of those who have trouble putting food on the table for their children still have time and strength to feel sorry for Xinjiang, they really should feel sorry for themselves and their families.



There is a huge development gap between Northern and Southern Xinjiang. Is there a high speed rail planned between Urumqi and Kashgar?


----------



## beijingwalker

tower9 said:


> There is a huge development gap between Northern and Southern Xinjiang. Is there a high speed rail planned between Urumqi and Kashgar?


It's under construction. yes, and China now is trying to balance northern Xinjiang and southern Xinjiang, 3 highways have already cut through the world second biggest desert connecting northern Xinang with soutern Xinjiang.

乌喀高铁
乌鲁木齐至喀什高速铁路线路起于乌鲁木齐，经吐鲁番、库尔勒、轮台、新和、阿克苏、巴楚、阿图什，终点至喀什，新建线路全长1250公里，总投资1400亿元

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## tower9

beijingwalker said:


> It's under construction. yes, and China now is trying to balance northern Xinjiang and southern Xinjiang, 3 highways have already cut through the world second biggest desert connecting northern Xinang with soutern Xinjiang.
> 
> 乌喀高铁
> 乌鲁木齐至喀什高速铁路线路起于乌鲁木齐，经吐鲁番、库尔勒、轮台、新和、阿克苏、巴楚、阿图什，终点至喀什，新建线路全长1250公里，总投资1400亿元



When will the high speed rail to Kashgar be completed? 

Will there be a highway or rail connecting Kashgar to Tibet?


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## beijingwalker

tower9 said:


> When will the high speed rail to Kashgar be completed?
> 
> Will there be a highway or rail connecting Kashgar to Tibet?


Hasn't broken ground yet, but China builts everything fast once started. Xinjiang and Tibet are connected by some railways but as far as I know, they are not HSR.

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## beijingwalker

If Tokyo can't host the next Olympic Games, let Urumqi do.

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## Viet

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang Urumqi Olympic park almost finished
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 30000 seat modern all purpose stadium, 12000 seats gymnasium, 2000 seats track and field stadium, 3000 seats swimming center, public sports center for variou sports, boxing, gym, badminton, tennis..., hotel complex for athletes and tourists.


That’s gigantic but who will visit these places?

Certainly not foreigners.

I just look after the percentage of foreigners in China.

China has a population of 1.4 billion people. But only 300,000 foreigners with resident visa for up to 5 years. Not permanent visa. They can be expelled when visa expires. That is a percentage after 0.
0.02 percent to be exact. Since the founding of PRC, in total 35 "Permanent Residence Certificates" and 277 "Certificates of Resettlement" were issued to foreigners in Beijing.

99,98 percent are chinese.

In short, millions of chinese settle down all over the world but they themselves make foreigners difficult to impossible to settle down in China.

Do you think China plays fair?


----------



## fisher1

Viet said:


> That’s gigantic but who will visit these places?
> 
> Certainly not foreigners.
> 
> I just look after the percentage of foreigners in China.
> 
> China has a population of 1.4 billion people. But only 300,000 foreigners with resident visa for up to 5 years. Not permanent visa. They can be expelled when visa expires. That is a percentage after 0.
> 0.02 percent to be exact. Since the founding of PRC, in total 35 "Permanent Residence Certificates" and 277 "Certificates of Resettlement" were issued to foreigners in Beijing.
> 
> 99,98 percent are chinese.
> 
> In short, millions of chinese settle down all over the world but they themselves make foreigners difficult to impossible to settle down in China.
> 
> Do you think China plays fair?



Their ideology is similar to Nazis. They think they're some superior race. It's the reason why they're purging every other ethnicity. 

They're extremely racist towards foreigners, something which we saw happen to Africans.


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## beijingwalker

Viet said:


> That’s gigantic but who will visit these places?
> 
> Certainly not foreigners.


They are not built for the foreigners, they are built for the locals.



fisher1 said:


> Their ideology is similar to Nazis. They think they're some superior race. It's the reason why they're purging every other ethnicity.
> 
> They're extremely racist towards foreigners, something which we saw happen to Africans.


China doesn't have much race problem, similar with Japan and Korea and Communist ideology actually calls equality between all races, that's the corner stone of that ideology, I guess you really don't know about it. Race problems are prevelant in the west, see how many blacks are shot dead like animals by US police every year.

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## beijingwalker

新疆晨报记者从乌鲁木齐儿童医院了解到，乌鲁木齐儿童医院将在城北新建分院区，全疆唯一一个三级甲等儿童专科医院，城北分院将被打造成智慧医院，不仅要利用互联网与基层医院儿科成立儿科“医联体”，未来还可能引入机器人完成送药、与患者沟通等工作。
The New Urumqi children's hospital will serve the northern part of the city, the old one is in the south. The new one features the concept of modernity, intellgience and integration. It will integrate datas of all small local hospitals and AI and robots will be introduced to do the drug delivery and consultation service.

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## shi12jun

Magnificent seventy years ~ Aerial Kashgar
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av91992463/

* Seeing from above of XinJiang province of China*
*



*
*The latest song in Xinjiang.-come on, Korla*
*



*
*Aksu, Xinjiang*
*



*

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## ChinaToday

can be used as detention camp no


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## shi12jun

*Xinjiang **Changji CIty




*

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## beijingwalker

U19 Chinese national soccer team, 6 of them are Uighurs
*
曝U19国青新集训名单：新疆球员6人*
本次U19国青集训名单：

北京国安：梁少文、史堉铖、乃比江-莫合买提、冷季轩

广州恒大：艾菲尔丁-艾斯卡尔、侯煜、帕尔曼江-克尤木

山东鲁能：阿卜杜肉苏力-阿不都拉木、苏毕-阿布力米提

新疆足协：肖开提江-塔依尔

(编辑：姚凡)

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## rott

@beijingwalker that fisher guy is actually ilyasmyhero.

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## Raphael

beijingwalker said:


> *Xinjiang girl proudly pulls out her Chinese ID card*
> 
> "Who are you"?
> "Chinese"
> "How can you prove it"?
> 
> She proudly pulls out her Chinese citizen national ID card.



bro a mod deleted your first thread for a reason, take a hint, this incident is too irrelevant


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## beijingwalker

Raphael said:


> bro a mod deleted your first thread for a reason, take a hint, this incident is too irrelevant


I deleted it myself due to so much derailing, off topic trash in that thread. People better stay on the topic instead of trying so hard to derail it.


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## Stannis Baratheon

beijingwalker said:


> I deleted it myself due to so much derailing, off topic trash in that thread. People better stay on the topic instead of trying so hard to derail it.


What's the topic exactly? Is it a poor attempt at showing China doesn't have concentration camp for Uighur Muslims!

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## beijingwalker

Stannis Baratheon said:


> What's the topic exactly? Is it a poor attempt at showing China doesn't have concentration camp for Uighur Muslims!


What does this video have anything to do with what you are talking about? This video proves nothing, just a teenager girl makes a fun video trying to be cute to get more fans.


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## Stannis Baratheon

beijingwalker said:


> What does this video have anything to do with what you are talking about? This video proves nothing, just a teenager girl makes a fun video trying to be cute to get more fans.


So, basically, there is no topic at all. Thus, there can't be any derailing.

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## beijingwalker

Stannis Baratheon said:


> So, basically, there is no topic at all. Thus, there can't be any derailing.


If so you don't have to talk about it at all, a pretty girl and beautiful nature are just posted to watch and share.


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## beijingwalker




----------



## Naofumi

@AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz 
This is both dumb and insane level of propaganda, please take a look.

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## Agha Sher

Crazy level of ccp propaganda. What is going on? Is this a circus or defence forum?

@WebMaster

Yet again, posts pointing out the propaganda are being censored.

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## beijingwalker

Naofumi said:


> @AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz
> This is both dumb and insane level of propaganda, please take a look.


Why,what's wrong with it? what is propaganda? anything postive about China is propaganda and negative about China the truth?

Why you guys don't pay more care about your own countries and always keep your attentions on China? China Obsession? I m talking about *my *country, why it bothers you guys so much?

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## Naofumi

beijingwalker said:


> Why,what's wrong with it? what is propaganda? anything postive about China is propaganda and negative about China the truth?


Why you always post about Xinjiang? Why not post about your native Beijing? I would appreciate if you post some good content about start-ups or research but even a 50 IQ fool can tell your present posts are dumb propaganda.


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## beijingwalker

Naofumi said:


> Why you always post about Xinjiang? Why not post about your native Beijing? I would appreciate if you post some good content about start-ups or research but even a 50 IQ fool can tell your present posts are dumb propaganda.


I post everything about China, go check. but again, I m talking about my own country, not your India, why it bothers you so much? you can post a million posts about India and I don't give a damn.


----------



## Agha Sher

beijingwalker said:


> I post everything about China, go check. but again, I m talking about my own country, not your India, why it bothers you so much? you can post a million posts about India and I don't give a damn.



This a defence forum. Why should we care about the dreams of a fake han communist girl imposing as an East Turkestani girl?

Get yourself together. You guys are becoming an embarrassment to this forum and world community.

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## Myth_buster_1

Naofumi said:


> @AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz
> This is both dumb and insane level of propaganda, please take a look.



so everytime a minority in India shows little bit of patriotism is a state sponsored propaganda?

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## beijingwalker

Agha Sher said:


> This a defence forum. .


Is every post in this forum about defence? and I posted it in China's subforum, why it pissed you so much? Afghanistan is a great country, but I don't really care to be honest.


----------



## PakistaniJunior

Do the chinese have trouble coming off of as genuine? These chinese related threads on pdf here seem too pretentious..

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## beijingwalker

Agha Sher said:


> Why should we care about the dreams of a fake han communist girl imposing as an East Turkestani girl?


Ok. mabye she would be better born in Afghanistan and have a better life, I don't know, only she knows what kind of life she is having now.



PakistaniJunior said:


> Do the chinese have trouble coming off of as genuine? These chinese related threads on pdf here seem too pretentious..


To China haters, yes, to friendly countries , no.

Some people here can not bear to see anything positive coming from China, we always know that. Don't know where they got this China obsession though, China is not their country.

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## Naofumi

Myth_buster_1 said:


> so everytime a minority in India shows little bit of patriotism is a state sponsored propaganda?


Will it be Ok if I post the same about a Kashmiri girl?


----------



## PakistaniJunior

beijingwalker said:


> Ok. mabye she would be better born in Afghanistan and have a better life, I don't know, only she knows what kind of life she is having now.
> 
> 
> To China haters, yes, to friendly countries , no.



I'm not a China hater but this just gives off weird vibes, no offense. If a Uyghur chinese is that proud of being chinese, they'd rather bring that here themselves. Not a outsider. You telling us how happy they are is just plain weird.

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## Agha Sher

beijingwalker said:


> Is every post in this forum about defence? and I posted it in China's subforum, why it pissed you so much? Afghanistan is a great country, but I don't really care to be honest.



This is the "China & Far East - World Affairs" subforum. Your thread does not have the slightest relevance to anything on PDF or this sub-forum. STOP POLLUTING.


----------



## beijingwalker

Naofumi said:


> Will it be Ok if I post the same about a Kashmiri girl?


Kashmir is a internationally disputed land, it's not Indian land, Xinjiang is a Chinese province, which country disputes with China over Xinjiang?

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## Naofumi

beijingwalker said:


> Kashmir is a internationally disputed land, it's not Indian land, Xinjiang is a Chinese province, which country disputes with China over Xinjiang?


Both regions are under obvious systematic oppression.

You should tell your master that you're failure as propagandist, they should stop paying you.


----------



## beijingwalker

Agha Sher said:


> This is the "China & Far East - World Affairs" subforum. Your thread does not have the slightest relevance to anything on PDF or this sub-forum. STOP POLLUTING.


Is Afghanistan part of China & Far East ? I post stuff happened in this region, not your region, why you don't go back to your subforum and enjoy things happening around yourself?



Naofumi said:


> Both regions are under obvious systematic oppression.


No,only yours, Xinjiang is almost like a first world region comparing to any part of India, let alone disputed violence torn Kashmir.

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## Naofumi

beijingwalker said:


> No,only yours, Xinjiang is almost like a first world region comparing to any part of India, let alone disputed violence torn Kashmir.


https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/...-escaped-here-s-what-goes-on-inside-1.7994216
Haaretz is not western.

Stop try to fool the world, no one believes what CCP tells; maybe not even Chinese.

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## beijingwalker

Naofumi said:


> https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/...-escaped-here-s-what-goes-on-inside-1.7994216
> Haaretz is not western.


No, they also said 3 million even 100 million, only fools believe this joke.



Naofumi said:


> https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/...-escaped-here-s-what-goes-on-inside-1.7994216
> Haaretz is not western.
> 
> Stop try to fool the world, no one believes what CCP tells; maybe not even Chinese.


Yes, the world believes Indians, see what a pathetic place you made the land of India into.


----------



## Yankee-stani

My message to Pakistanis at end of the day be it the Chinese,Turks,Arabs,Persians or etc any foreigners please take any of their propaganda with pinch of salt please


----------



## xuxu1457

You can dislike but,.you can't let others shut up, This is very rude behavior.
In another thread, it has been said that there should be a limit on the number of new threads per account per week, and no limit on what can be said as long as it does not violate the rules of the forum.



Agha Sher said:


> This is the "China & Far East - World Affairs" subforum. Your thread does not have the slightest relevance to anything on PDF or this sub-forum. STOP POLLUTING.





Naofumi said:


> Both regions are under obvious systematic oppression.
> 
> You should tell your master that you're failure as propagandist, they should stop paying you.


----------



## beijingwalker

Agha Sher said:


> The Mods should restrict propaganda of any sort. Indeed, all sides use propaganda, but the level of ccp propaganda on PDF is absurd. Dozens of irrelevant threads praising china and communists every single day. This has become a circus.


What is propaganda? anything good about China? what I posted are not true about China? are those photos and videos fake?


----------



## Agha Sher

beijingwalker said:


> Whoever gets paid to do propaganda here should have their parents die on them tomorrow.



I am sure that a ccp communist like yourself wouldn't flinch for a second if you had to sacrifice your family for ccp.

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## beijingwalker

You guys are not the judge to decide what are propaganda and what are not.



Agha Sher said:


> I am sure that a ccp communist like yourself wouldn't flinch for a second if you had to sacrifice your family for ccp.


That's why you even lost human common sense, haters gonna hate , we always know.

Can I post this? https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/doze...o-receive-free-heart-surgery-in-china.554613/


----------



## Naofumi

xuxu1457 said:


> You can dislike but,.you can't let others shut up, This is very rude behavior.


Then tell your partner to post something relevant, I have nothing against China, I mildly like your growth model and start-up culture, why don't you post something that is not propaganda. I am sure China have tons of other things than Xinjiang/Uyghurs.


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## beijingwalker

Naofumi said:


> Then tell your partner to post something relevant, I have nothing against China, I mildly like your growth model and start-up culture, why don't you post something that is not propaganda. I am sure China have tons of other things than Xinjiang/Uyghurs.


I post everything about China, all provinces, you can name one.


----------



## xuxu1457

Naofumi said:


> Then tell your partner to post something relevant, I have nothing against China, I mildly like your growth model and start-up culture, why don't you post something that is not propaganda. I am sure China have tons of other things than Xinjiang/Uyghurs.


That's why he thinks you've been brainwashed, and he needs to tell you the truth. And you think he's been brainwashed, and what you hear in China is true.


----------



## Naofumi

beijingwalker said:


> I post everything about China, all provinces, you can name one.





xuxu1457 said:


> That's why he thinks you've been brainwashed, and he needs to tell you the truth. And you think he's been brainwashed, and what you hear in China is true.


Just stop threads like *Uyghur girl praised Xi Xingping as his daddy*, post about Space program, defence, start-up, economy, universities and no one will object.


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## beijingwalker

Naofumi said:


> Just stop threads like *Uyghur girl praised Xi Xingping as his daddy*,


Where and when I posted it? and I m not here to please you and need you to tell me what to post.

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## xuxu1457

Naofumi said:


> Just stop threads like *Uyghur girl praised Xi Xingping as his daddy*, post about Space program, defence, start-up, economy, universities and no one will object.






"Uyghur girl praised Xi Xingping as his daddy", you're exaggerating. "

If someone said that Xinjiang concentration camps such fake news, would you be so opposed?

Some people will think that this is Xinjiang, with concentration camps everywhere and everyone controlled by the Communist Party. Then, some people will feel very comfortable, will feel that this is the truth, this is the Xinjiang I am familiar with. This has long been a joke in concentration camps on the Chinese Internet.


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## Myth_buster_1

Naofumi said:


> Will it be Ok if I post the same about a Kashmiri girl?


u tell since u r the one b1tch1ing


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## sinait

Naofumi said:


> Then tell your partner to post something relevant, I have nothing against China, I mildly like your growth model and start-up culture, why don't you post something that is not propaganda. I am sure China have tons of other things than Xinjiang/Uyghurs.


@beijingwalker post many things that are relevant to many people here.
13 positive and 50,704 normal ratings can attest to that.
I hope nobody points a gun at you to read his posts and troll here.
Else you must be having some kind of Mental Disorder to force yourself to come here.

Xinjiang is a hot international topic because the US is trying hard to brew trouble there for China.
Therefore there is much interest in what happens there and these videos gives us some insights.
These threads are not meant for you, go away if you are not interested.
I am sure your posts of NO VALUE and trolling will not be missed.
.

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## beijingwalker

The west lies about Xinjiang , but China bashers don't care, anything the Chinese posters try to defend China is PROPAGANDA in their eyes.


*Inside the World Uyghur Congress: The US-backed right-wing regime change network seeking the ‘fall of China’*

March 5, 2020






While posing as a grassroots human rights organization, the World Uyghur Congress is a US-funded and directed separatist network that has forged alliances with far-right ethno-nationalist groups. The goal spelled out by its founders is clear: the destabilization of China and regime change in Beijing.

By Ajit Singh

In recent years, few stories have generated as much outrage in the West as the condition of Uyghur Muslims in China. Reporting on the issue is typically represented through seemingly spontaneous leaks of information and expressions of resistance by Uyghur human rights activists struggling to be heard against a tyrannical Chinese government.

True or not, nearly everything that appears in Western media accounts of China’s Uyghur Muslims is the product of a carefully conceived media campaign generated by an apparatus of right-wing, anti-communist Uyghur separatists funded and trained by the US government.

A central gear in Washington’s new Cold War against China, this network has a long history of relationships with the US national security state and far-right ultra-nationalists.

At the heart of this movement is the World Uyghur Congress (WUC), an international Uyghur organization that claims to be engaged in a “peaceful, nonviolent, and democratic” struggle for “human rights.” The WUC considers China’s northwestern Xinjiang region to be East Turkestan, and sees its Uyghur Muslim inhabitants not as Chinese citizens but instead as members of a pan-Turkic nation stretching from Central Asia to Turkey.

As this investigation establishes, the WUC is not a grassroots movement, but a US government-backed umbrella for several Washington-based outfits that also rely heavily on US funding and direction. Today, it is the main face and voice of a separatist operation dedicated to destabilizing the Xinjiang region of China and ultimately toppling the Chinese government.

While seeking to orchestrate a color revolution with the aim of regime change in Beijing, the WUC and its offshoots have forged ties with the Grey Wolves, a far-right Turkish organization that has been actively engaged in sectarian violence from Syria to East Asia.

None of these links seem to have troubled the WUC’s sponsors in Washington. If anything, they have added to the network’s appeal, consolidating it as one of the most potent political weapons the US wields in its new Cold War against China.

*The World Uyghur Congress, brought to you by the US government’s regime change arm*
The WUC promotes itself as an “opposition movement against Chinese occupation of East Turkistan ” that “represent the collective interests” and is “the sole legitimate organization of the Uyghur people both in East Turkistan and abroad.”

Headquartered in Munich, Germany, the WUC is an international umbrella organization with a network of 33 affiliates in 18 countries around the world. The WUC and its affiliates — particularly the Uyghur American Association, Uyghur Human Rights Project, and Campaign for Uyghurs — are cited in nearly every Western media report on China’s Uyghur Muslims.

From its inception, the WUC has been backed by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). With millions in US taxpayer money, the NED and its subsidiaries have backed opposition parties, “civil society” groups, and media organizations in countries targeted by the US for regime change.

Philip Agee, the late CIA whistleblower, described the work of the NED as a more sophisticated version of the old-fashioned covert operations that Langley used to engineer. “Nowadays,” Agee explained, “instead of having the CIA going around behind the scenes and trying to manipulate the process by inserting money here and giving instructions secretly and so forth, they have now a sidekick, which is this National Endowment for Democracy, NED.”

Agee’s assessment was confirmed by Allen Weinstein, a former Trotskyist and founding member of the NED. Weinstein told the Washington Post in 1991, “A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA.”

When the WUC was founded in 2004, the NED’s then-senior Asia program officer, Louisa Coan Greve, praised the move as a “great accomplishment.”

The NED has provided the WUC with millions of dollars in funding, including $1,284,000 since 2016 alone, and millions of dollars in additional funding to WUC-affiliate organizations. The grants are earmarked for training Uyghur activists and youth in media advocacy and lobbying “to raise awareness of and support for Uyghur human rights,” with a particular focus on US Congress, European Parliament, and the United Nations.

In 2018, the NED provided the WUC and its offshoots with close to $665,000, according to the former organization’s website.




The NED has played a direct role in molding the direction and politics of the WUC. Besides honeycombing WUC-affiliated organizations with NED operatives like Coan Greve, the NED has sponsored and organized annual “Leadership Training Seminars” for the WUC since 2007.



Many leading members of the WUC have also worked in senior positions for Radio Free Asia (RFA) and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL). These US government-run news agencies were created by the CIA during the Cold War to project propaganda into China and the Soviet Union, and to stir up opposition to communism on these countries’ frontiers.

Unsurprisingly, the WUC is tightly aligned with Washington’s foreign policy agenda and hostile new Cold War strategy which seeks to contain and impede the rise of China. The WUC regularly meets with and lobbies US and Western politicians, urging them to isolate and “increase the pressure on China”; ratchet up economic sanctions; curb ties with China, and withdraw Western companies from the region.

The WUC celebrated the passage of The Uighur Act of 2019 by the US House of Representatives, in December 2019. The bill, which called on the Trump administration to enact sanctions against the Chinese government, was the latest in a string of anti-China achievements.

This regime change apparatus has made its strongest impact through the media, providing a constant source of self-styled Uyghur dissidents and human rights horror stories to eager Western reporters. The exposure the WUC and its affiliates receive extends well beyond corporate media outlets known for echoing Washington’s foreign policy talking points; even ostensibly adversarial, progressive, and left-wing media such as The Intercept, Democracy Now! and Jacobin Magazine have provided them with an uncritical platform.

While adopting the WUC’s narrative, these self-styled alternative outlets never seem to mention the close bonds the organization and its offshoots have forged with the US national security state and right-wing ethno-nationalist movements abroad. But the relationships are no secret. In fact, they appear to be a source of pride for WUC leadership.

The Far-Right Roots of the Uyghur “Human Rights” Movement
Behind its carefully constructed human rights brand, the Uyghur separatist movement emerged from elements in Xinjiang which view socialism as “the enemy of Islam,” and which sought Washington’s support from the outset, presenting themselves as eager foot-soldiers for US hegemony.

The founding father of this separatist movement was Isa Yusuf Alptekin. His son, Erkin Alptekin, founded the WUC and served as the organization’s inaugural president. The senior Alptekin is referred to as “our late leader” by the WUC and current President Dolkun Isa.

Born at the turn of the 20th century, Alptekin was the son of a local government Xinjiang official. He received a largely Islamic education as a youth, as his family intended for him to be a religious scholar.

During the Chinese Civil War that raged between the nationalists and communists from 1945 to ’49, Alptekin served under the nationalist Kuomintang (KMT) administration in Xinjiang. Throughout this period, the KMT received massive military and economic backing from the United States — including billions of dollars in cash and military hardware, along with the deployment of tens of thousands of US marines — in an effort to quash the Chinese revolution.

At the same time, according to historian Linda Benson, Alptekin “became more active in both the Guomindang [sic] and national level politics … and met several times with [KMT leader] Chiang Kai-shek personally.” For Alptekin and fellow travelers advancing Turkic nationalism and the region’s eventual independence, “equally important was the necessity of protecting the land they called East Turkestan from Soviet and Chinese communism, both of which were viewed as real and present dangers to Islamic peoples.”

For the KMT, Uyghur activists like Alptekin made prime candidates for Xinjiang’s provincial administration. As Benson explained, “[t]he essential qualification for such appointees… was that they be anti-Communist and anti-Soviet.” In his memoirs, Alptekin revealed that he “sought to eliminate all Russians and leftists in the government,” and said that “schools were also encouraged to include religious instruction in their curriculum.”

A fervent opponent of miscegenation, Alptekin worked to prevent intermarriage between Han Chinese and Uyghur Muslims. During his time in government, religious fundamentalists “attacked the houses of Han Chinese who were married to Moslem [sic] women […] The mob abducted the Moslem wives, and in some cases the unfortunate women were forced to marry old Moslem men.” Though the violence killed numerous Han Chinese, it proceeded without any government response during Alptekin’s tenure.

As the civil war wore on, Alptekin grew frustrated with the declining power of the nationalists and met with US and British Consuls in Xinjiang, beseeching the twin powers to deepen their intervention in China and the region. With the coming victory of the Chinese Revolution, Alptekin went into exile in 1949.

Alptekin eventually settled in Turkey, emerging as the pre-eminent leader of the Uyghur separatist movement throughout the latter half of the 20th century. He set out to enlist international support for the cause of East Turkestan independence, courting leading US officials and far-right, neo-Ottomanist ideologues in Turkey.





Alptekin, holding a book, leads a demonstration in support of East Turkestan separatism in 1966. Alptekin stands in front of a banner that reads, “Communism is the enemy of Islam.”

The Uyghur separatist leader wrote to then-US President Richard Nixon on several occasions, pleading for him to support East Turkestan separatism. In a 1969 missive to the president, Alptekin declared full-throated support for the US war on Vietnam: “We are hopeful and pleased that the US, as a fortress of liberty, is protecting captive nations,” he stated. Altepkin then pleaded for his “Excellency” Nixon and the US, “the most imminent protector of captive nations”, to support East Turkestan independence.

Alptekin wrote Nixon the following year to warn of the evils of “Red China.” He branded the country “a great menace which the whole world as led by the United States of America is confronting. This menace is now in the process of evolution to engulf the earth. If time is allowed it can upset the balance of the world to disadvantage the free nations.”

“The whole world has reason to be apprehensive of Red China,” Alptekin insisted to Nixon, “for it is likely to be an irresistible [sic] threat on earth… China today is one of the biggest nations in the world where the Marxist teach has been implemented… China may prove to be a greater menace to all the world, and this menace is likely to cause a total destruction to the free nations if they are not prudent and fore-sighted.”

Alptekin advised Nixon to combat the “Chinese war of world conquest” by supporting separatist movements, namely that of East Turkestan nationalists, and by “speeding up the process of the dismemberment of the Chinese empire.”

Mapping out a detailed regime change strategy for Washington, Alptekin urged the US to generate support for his cause among the “free world,” set up an academic institute to study “every aspect” of minority nationalities living within China, develop media propaganda targeting minority nationalities by operating “a radio network beaming at these peoples in their respective languages”; “devise a plan to secure [the] collaboration” of minority nationalities and “train the children of the non-Chinese exiles abroad.”

In 1970, Alptekin travelled to Washington to meet with members of US Congress and address the House of Representatives.






Alptekin and fellow East Turkestan separatists met with members of US Congress on a trip to Washington in 1970.

Forging bonds with fascistic, ethno-supremacist Turkish nationalists
While appealing for Washington’s support, Alptekin developed strong ties with the Turkish far-right. Their bonds rested on a solid foundation of anti-communist zeal and pan-Turkic, neo-Ottomanist nationalism.

On numerous occasions, Alptekin met with Alparslan Türkeş a fascistic, ultra-nationalist who believed ardently in Turkish ethnic superiority over minorities like Kurds and Armenians, and for whom the eradication of communism among the Turkic populations of Soviet Central Asia and Xinjiang was “the dream he had most cherished”.




Alparslan Türkeş and Isa Yusuf Alptekin

Türkeş was long-time leader of the far-right Nationalist Action Party (MHP) and its paramilitary arm, the Grey Wolves. According to the Washington Post, he headed a murderous group of “right-wing terrorists” who are “blindly nationalist, fascist or nearly so, and bent on the extermination of the Communists.” The fascistic militant group killed numerous left-wing activists, students, Kurds, and notoriously attempted to assassinate Pope John Paul II.

With military training from the US, Türkeş co-founded the Turkish cell of Operation Gladio, the US and NATO-backed network of “stay behind” anti-communist paramilitary groups that carried out numerous acts of terror and sabotage across Europe.

Alptekin appears to have shared the hateful politics of Türkeş and the Turkish far-right, often expressing anti-Armenian views including denial of the Armenian genocide and claims that Armenians were murderers of innocent Turks.

The Turkish right-wing has embraced the East Turkestan separatist movement with open arms, appealing to them as a key base of political support. “The martyrs of East Turkestan are our martyrs,” stated Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, then mayor of Istanbul, as he inaugurated a park named in honor of Alptekin, following the death of the Uyghur nationalist in 1995.

In recent decades, the Uyghur separatist movement has deepened its connections with Washington and the US national security state. The WUC and its affiliate organizations — including the Uyghur American Association, Uyghur Human Rights Project, and Campaign for Uyghurs — are made up of individuals with direct ties to the US government, military, and regime change establishment.

Inspired by pro-free market color revolutions spawned by the US government in the former Soviet republics of Central Asia, the WUC’s regime change network has set out a clear goal of destabilizing China and toppling its government.

With vow to destroy China, WUC leaders earn Western adulation and support
In 2004, Erkin Alptekin was named the inaugural president of the WUC. He is the son of the far-right, ultra-nationalist father figure of the Uyghur separatist movement, Isa Yusuf Alptekin, whose background is explored later in this article. From 1971 to 1995, Erkin Alptekin worked for the US government-funded RFE/RL media network.

Speaking at the funeral of his father, in 1995, the junior Alptekin outlined his anti-communist, separatist views and articulated his desire to destroy China: “Ten years ago no one believed that the USSR would fall apart now you can see that. Many Turkic countries have their freedom now. Today the same situation applies to China. We believed in the not too distant future we will see the fall of China and the independence of East Turkestan.”





Erkin Alptekin calling for the “fall of China” at his father’s funeral. From the WUC film, “Uyghur Leaders in Exile.”

The WUC describes Alptekin as “close friend” of the Dalai Lama, the U.S-backed, CIA-funded figurehead for Tibetan separatism. “We are working very closely with the Dalai Lama,” Alptekin told The Washington Post in 1999. “He is a very good example for us.”

In 2006, Erkin Alptekin was succeeded as WUC President by Rebiya Kadeer, a self-described multi-millionaire real estate and trading entrepreneur who profited off of China’s economic reforms of the 1980s and claims to have once been the seventh wealthiest individual in the country. According to The New York Times, Kadeer’s “[d]issidence brought the end of her Audi, her three villas and her far-flung business empire”. Kadeer’s husband, SIdik Rouzi, worked for US government media outlets Voice of America and Radio Free Asia.

During her tenure as WUC President, Kadeer met with then-US President George W. Bush on several occasions. As Bush waged his illegal war on Iraq and persecuted Muslim American leadership under the auspices of his so-called “war on terror,” Kadeer appealed to the US head of state to take up the cause of Uyghur Muslims. “I was deeply honored to meet with the President,” Kadeer stated. She “expressed gratitude for President Bush’s demonstrated commitment to promoting freedom and democratic reform in the PRC.”





At the 2007 Democracy & Security International Conference in Prague, Bush praised Kadeer as a human rights defender in his address before the gathering. The conference was organized by the Prague Security Studies Institute, a think tank that aims to advance free-market societies in post-communist states, and the Adelson Institute for Strategic Studies, an Israeli outfit named for ultra-Zionist Republican casino baron Sheldon Adelson. Conference partners included the US government and NATO.

Kadeer kept close relationships with the Dalai Lama and Vaclav Havel, the leader of the ‘Velvet Revolution’ which brought down Czechoslovakia’s communist government. Havel was a “major proponent of NATO” and instrumental to the Western military alliance’s eastward expansion. Kadeer described Havel as “an uncompromising advocate for truth, justice and peace” and pointed to his political accomplishments as an example to be emulated for China. “Mr. Havel’s vision for the Czech people […] speaks to Chinese democrats today”, wrote Kadeer, following Havel’s death, and “contains […] the seeds of a new era for political reform in China.”





Rebiya Kadeer pictured with Frederik Willem De Klerk, Vaclav Havel and the Dalai Lama.

The current President of WUC is Dolkun Isa, winner of the 2019 Democracy Award from the NED. In 2016, Isa received a human rights award from the far-right Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which was established by the US government in 1993. In his acceptance speech, Isa emphasized “the Uyghurs’ resistance to communism” and that “we will not stop our work until we consign this destructive ideology, in the words of Ronald Reagan, to ‘the ash heap of history.’”

Isa regularly lobbies US and Western politicians to intensify their new Cold War agenda by enacting economic sanctions and curbing ties with China. Among those he has met with in recent years are Trump administration White House officials, right-wing Republican Senator Ted Cruz, the US Consul General in Munich, and the fervently anti-China acting Director of National Intelligence, Richard Grenell.



In November 2019, Isa attended the Halifax International Security Forum, a gathering convened by NATO and the Canadian Department of National Defence. There, he met with leading Western political and military figures.

In January 2020, Isa was hosted at an event organized by the Board of Deputies of British Jews, a right-wing British Israeli lobby group. At the event, Isa met with with the ultra-Zionist organization Bnei Akiva, whose leader called for the Israeli Army “to take the foreskins of 300 Palestinians” amid Israel’s punishing 2014 assault on the besieged Gaza Strip.

Omer Kanat serves as the WUC’s Chairman of the Executive Committee. Kanat helped found the WUC and has been a permanent fixture in its executive leadership. The veteran operative has a lengthy history of work with the US government, from serving as senior editor of Radio Free Asia’s Uyghur Service from 1999 to 2009 to covering the US wars on Iraq and Afghanistan and interviewing the Dalai Lama for the network.

In an interview with The Grayzone editor Max Blumenthal at a 2018 NED awards ceremony in the US Capitol building, Kanat took credit for furnishing many of the claims about internment camps in Xinjiang to Western media. He conceded, however, that the WUC did not know how the oft-repeated “millions detained” claim was arrived at aside from “Western media estimates.”

Preparing for a color revolution, WUC offshoots staff up with national security state operatives
Established in 1998, the Uyghur American Association (UAA) is a Washington D.C.-based affiliate of the WUC. A long time grantee of the NED, the UAA has received millions of dollars in funding. According to its publicly available tax filings, the group works closely with the US government, particularly the US State Department, Congressional-Executive Commission on China (CECC), and US Congress’s Human Rights Commission.

“The National Endowment for Democracy has been exceptionally supportive of UAA,” stated Nury Turkel, former UAA President, “providing us with invaluable guidance and assistance” along with “essential funding.”

Turkel credited the NED with enabling the UAA increase its credibility and expand its influence. Among the top achievements he cited was a meeting with the new Krygyzstan government “within weeks of [the former government’s] fall from power” following the US-engineered Tulip “color revolution” which brought a pro-Western regime to power.

Speaking at the 5th Congress of the UAA, in 2006, Turkel confirmed the regime change agenda of the UAA, UHRP and broader Uyghur separatist movement, stating that “as we witnessed the ‘Tulip Revolution’ and the toppling the former government of Kyrgyzstan, our hopes were again reinforced.”

The UAA’s leadership consists of US national security state operators including employees of the US government, Radio Free Asia, and military-industrial complex.

Kuzzat Altay, the nephew of Reibya Kadeer, is the current president of the UAA. Altay is also the founder of the Uyghur Entrepreneurs Network, which claims to offer Uyghur Americans with guidance to “start their own business”.

In 2019, his business network has organized an event in collaboration with the FBI, the federal law enforcement agency notorious for its surveillance of Muslim Americans and ensnaring countless mentally troubled young Muslim American men in manufactured terror plots.

Past presidents of UAA include Kadeer; Alim Seytoff, a former Radio Free Asia correspondent and current Director of RFA’s Uyghur Service; and Ilshat Hassan Kokbore, who has worked at Booz Allen Hamilton since 2008.

Booz Allen is a notorious private US military and intelligence contractor that rakes in billions of dollars in contracts with American intelligence agencies. Edward Snowden was employed at the firm when he decided to blow the whistle on the National Security Agency’s invasive, all-encompassing system of mass surveillance.

The main project spun out of the UAA and the NED is the Uyghur Human Rights Project (UHRP). The UHRP was founded by the UAA in 2004 with the NED as the principal source of funding. The NED granted the UHRP a whopping $1,244,698 between 2016 and ’19.

The UHRP is staffed by WUC leaders like Omer Kanat and Nury Turkel, along with former US government officials and senior members of the NED.

Dr. Elise Anderson serves as UHRP’s Senior Program Office for Research and Advocacy. In 2019, Anderson served as the Liu Xiaobo Fellow, occupying a position at the Congressional-Executive Commission on China named for the far-right Chinese dissident who supported colonialism, US militarism and the “Westernisation” of China.

Anderson states that from 2012 to 2016, she was “based out of Ürümchi, the regional capital of Xinjiang,” conducting research for her doctorate. The extent of her activities in the region are unclear, as Anderson’s CV indicates that during this time she was also working for the US government as “Ürümchi Warden for the US Embassy in Beijing, China, 2014–16.”

Louisa Coan Greve, the former vice president of NED, today serves as UHRP’s Director of Global Advocacy. Greve formerly worked as Vice President of the NED.

Rushan Abbas, the US national security state’s favorite “human rights activist”
*



*
Another influential organization spun out of the WUC network is the Campaign for Uyghurs. This group is headed by Rushan Abbas, the former Vice President of the UAA. Promoted simply as a Uyghur “human rights activist” by Western media outlets including the supposedly adversarial Democracy Now!, Abbas is, in fact, a longtime US government and military operative.

Abbas boasts in her bio of her “extensive experience working with US government agencies, including Homeland Security, Department of Defense, Department of State, and various US intelligence agencies.”

While working for the military contractor L3 Technologies, Abbas served the US government and the Bush administration’s so-called war on terror as a “consultant at Guantanamo Bay supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.” Abbas “also worked as a linguist and translator for several federal agencies including work for the US State Department in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and for President George W. Bush and former First Lady Laura Bush”. Like so many of her colleagues, Abbas enjoyed a stint at Radio Free Asia.

While Abbas once shared her history of collaboration with the US government in the open, she has attempted to scrub biographic information from her online presence following a disastrous publicity appearance in December 2019. During a Reddit’s “Ask Me Anything” question and answer forum, participants blasted Abbas as a “CIA asset” and frequent US government collaborator, prompting her attempt to disappear her bio from the internet.

Besides collaborating with the US government, Abbas’ professional experience consists of aiding the expansion of US capitalism in the global south. She boasts work with consulting firms such as ISI Consultants which “assists US companies to grow their business in Middle East and African markets.” Abbas claims to have “over 15 years of experience in global business development, strategic business analysis, business consultancy and government affairs throughout the Middle East, Africa, CIS regions, Europe, Asia, Australia, North America and Latin America.”

Celebrating the Gray Wolves, proposing US and Turkish military intervention
Along with their extensive ties to Washington, the WUC and Uyghur separatist movement has maintained close connections with the Turkish far-right.

In 2015, members of the MHP-affiliated Grey Wolves formerly led by Alparslan Türkeş attacked South Korean tourists in Turkey, mistaking them for Chinese citizens, in protest of the situation in Xinjiang.

Turkish MHP party leader Devlet Bahçeli defended the attacks. “How are you going to differentiate between Korean and Chinese?” the rightist politician questioned. “They both have slanted eyes. Does it really matter?” Bahceli’s racist remarks coincided with the display of a Grey Wolves banner at party’s Istanbul headquarters reading, “We crave Chinese blood.”

The Grey Wolves and Uyghur militants were blamed by Thailand’s national police and an IHS-Jane’s analyst of carrying out a 2015 bombing of a religious shrine in Thailand that killed 20 people. The attack was intended as revenge against the Thai government’s decision to repatriate a group of Uyghur Muslims to China. Beijing had claimed the Uyghurs were en route to Turkey, Syria or Iraq to join extremist groups fighting in the region such as the al-Qaeda-affiliated East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), or Turkestan Islamic Party (TIP).

Months before the bombing, a group of 200 protesters waving East Turkestan flags attacked the Thai consulate in Istanbul in response to the Uyghur repatriation. The group was reportedly led by the Grey Wolves and East Turkestan Culture and Solidarity Association. The latter organization was headed by Seyit Tümturk, who served as WUC Vice President from 2008 to 2016 and belonged to the organization’s founding pantheon.

The WUC continues to publish articles on its website that praise and celebrate Alparslan Türkeş, the far-right, ultra-nationalist founder of the Grey Wolves and long-time MHP party leader. Its website also promotes endorsements of East Turkestan separatism by current leaders of the MHP and Grey Wolves.

While building links with the Turkish far-right, leading WUC representatives have appealed to Turkish President Erdogan to take an interventionist role in China akin to Turkey’s actions in Libya and Syria, where it supported the regime change efforts of the US, West and an array of extremist proxy groups.

Writing in the Wall Street Journal in 2012, Nury Turkel argued that Turkey can play a leading role in “rallying democracies” to pressure China on Xinjiang: “As a longstanding ally of the US and a neighbor of Europe, Turkey is uniquely well-situated to do this.”

As a first step in this strategy, Turkel proposed that Turkey “should organize a ‘friends of Uighurs’ conference with democratic allies – similar to the ones organized for Libya and Syria – discussing Ankara’s vision and policy objectives with respect to the Uighur people in China.”



Other leading representatives of WUC have vocally endorsed Turkish military interventionism. The political statements of Seyit Tümturk, who served as WUC Vice President, underscore the extremist and militant politics behind WUC’s carefully cultivated image as a “peaceful and nonviolent” human rights organization.

In 2018, Tümturk declared that Chinese Uyghurs view Turkish “state requests as orders.” He then proclaimed that hundreds of thousands of Chinese Uyghurs were ready to enlist in the Turkish army and join Turkey’s illegal and brutal invasion of Northern Syria “to fight for God” – if ordered to do so by Erdogan.





Shortly after Tumturk’s comments, Uyghur militants dressed in Turkish military fatigues and on the Turkish side of the Syrian border released a video in which they threatened to wage war against China:

“Listen you dog bastards, do you see this? We will triumph!” one fighter exclaimed. “We will kill you all. Listen up Chinese civilians, get out of our East Turkestan. I am warning you. We shall return and we will be victorious.”



The second installment of this investigation will detail the shadowy relationship between the WUC’s lobbying apparatus, Western governments and violent extremist organizations like the East Turkestan Islamic Party, which are waging a separatist religious war from Western China to Syria’s Idlib province.

https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/05/...s-far-right-regime-change-network-fall-china/

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## dbc

beijingwalker said:


> If so you don't have to talk about it at all, a pretty girl and beautiful nature are just posted to watch and share.


There are a million YouTube videos of pretty girls and beautiful nature - why this particular video? What’s so special?



dbc said:


> There are a million YouTube videos of pretty girls and beautiful nature - why this particular video? What’s so special?



Just saw the video - no beautiful nature.


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## dbc

Slav Defence said:


> *Stick to the topic.*



what is the topic exactly? Video is in Chinese, OP claims the little girl aspires to be a Chinese diplomat.
She may as well be saying I love dim sum! How are we to know?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

dbc said:


> There are a million YouTube videos of pretty girls and beautiful nature - why this particular video? What’s so special?


I posted many of them already, do you think every girl being posted here on PDF is so special?



dbc said:


> There are a million YouTube videos of pretty girls and beautiful nature - why this particular video? What’s so special?
> 
> Just saw the video - no beautiful nature.


I posted many nature video threads, you missed them cause you don't care, right?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/beautiful-xishuangbanna-china.594446/
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/beautiful-guangxi-ethnic-zhuang-autonomous-region-china.660403/
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/ethn...-chinese-inner-mongolia.662455/#post-12255211


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## dbc

beijingwalker said:


> I posted many of them already, do you think every girl being posted here on PDF is so special?
> 
> 
> I posted many nature video threads, you missed them cause you don't care, right?
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/beautiful-xishuangbanna-china.594446/
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/beautiful-guangxi-ethnic-zhuang-autonomous-region-china.660403/



yes but you picked this one - why? What is so special about this video? This is a discussion forum, so please tell us why this video is worthy of discussion?

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## Trango Towers

beijingwalker said:


> little Uighur girl Tik Tok home page: My dream is to become the best diplomat of China after I grow up, some foreigngers say that my dream will never come true because China will never allow ethnic minority to become diplomats, but you don't know that the first female diplomat of PRC was actually an ethnic Mongol, I tell you, this is China, where ethnic discrimination is non existent, don't compare your countries with our China, cause you are sooooo..far behind us.


Another bs thread...

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## beijingwalker

dbc said:


> yes but you picked this one - why? What is so special about this video? This is a discussion forum, so please tell us why this video is worthy of discussion?


I just like this one and like to share it, do you have any problem with it?

I also shared this one today in another thread cause I love the music of it.


----------



## beijingwalker

Trango Towers said:


> Another bs thread...


Pissed you off again? lol, I m so pleased.


----------



## Trango Towers

@WebMaster @waz is this PDF or chinese propaganda against Ughair people. 

Shall i start opening bs thread on what the chinese are doing to the ughair people and the blacks?

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## Trango Towers

beijingwalker said:


> Pissed you off again? lol, I m so pleased.


I am so pleased africasn are rounding you up and kicking u our of Africa. You are a troll and pathetic.


----------



## beijingwalker

dbc said:


> what is the topic exactly? Video is in Chinese, OP claims the little girl aspires to be a Chinese diplomat.
> She may as well be saying I love dim sum! How are we to know?


If you don't believe my translation, find someone else to confirm it, or, ignore it, you don't really have to jump in to comment.



Trango Towers said:


> I am so pleased africasn are rounding you up and kicking u our of Africa. You are a troll and pathetic.


I don't know what does this thread have anything to do with your claim, but since you are so happy , good for you.

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## Trango Towers

beijingwalker said:


> If you don't believe my translation, find someone else to confirm it, or, ignore it, you don't really have to jump in to comment.


You people are committing crimes even in Islamabad. Now even the police watch the chinese around banks and ATMs



beijingwalker said:


> If you don't believe my translation, find someone else to confirm it, or, ignore it, you don't really have to jump in to comment.
> 
> 
> I don't know what does this thread have anything to do with your claim, but since you are so happy , good for you.


Well I have asked the mods @WebMaster @waz and if they dont I will open thread after thread that shows what you are doing to Uighur people and Africans in china

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## beijingwalker

Trango Towers said:


> You people are committing crimes even in Islamabad. Now even the police watch the chinese around banks and ATMs


arrest them. Simple, your country , your rule.

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## Slav Defence

dbc said:


> what is the topic exactly? Video is in Chinese, OP claims the little girl aspires to be a Chinese diplomat.
> She may as well be saying I love dim sum! How are we to know?


DBC,
If the same video has shown a Chinese girl crying for justice for being repeated torture, gang rape, abuse or denial of freedom of speech and the whole video was in Chinese and translated by op in English about the miserable torture she has gone through then nobody even once would have objected that the video is in Chinese and I know that just like people seek for chances to abuse Americans on basis of dop, in the same way be abusing Chinese without thinking for a moment that op is trying to fight against propaganda campaign. Now since in this video none of the incidents are reported above and little girl is chirping and singing like lovely bird and is making flowery talk, therefore video language has become a problem.
When we will realize our own bias and for a moment for God sake, hear the other party? 

regards

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## beijingwalker

Trango Towers said:


> @WebMaster @waz is this PDF or chinese propaganda against Ughair people.
> 
> Shall i start opening bs thread on what the chinese are doing to the ughair people and the blacks?


Who are against Uighur people, they are Chinese, they are our people, what made you think I m against my own people?


----------



## beijingwalker

Trango Towers said:


> Well I have asked the mods @WebMaster @waz and if they dont I will open thread after thread that shows what you are doing to Uighur people and Africans in china



I m talking about my country, why you so upset, if I open one thread after another about a foreign country, that's wrong, but I didn't.


----------



## Agha Sher

Why is this farce of a thread still open? Mods?

@waz @WebMaster

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## beijingwalker

Agha Sher said:


> Why is this farce of a thread still open? Mods?
> 
> @waz @WebMaster


How do you this is farce and your China bashing claims are the truth?


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## Trango Towers

beijingwalker said:


> arrest them. Simple, your country , your rule.


You are pathetic little paid troll


----------



## beijingwalker

Trango Towers said:


> You are pathetic little paid troll


You said Chinese committing crimes in Pakistan and I said you should arrest them, what's wrong with it?


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## Trango Towers

Trango Towers said:


> You are pathetic little paid troll


I dont bash china...but I know when china is doing wrong. This is wrong and now this must stop and if mods are accepting this then they must accept anti china posts too @WebMaster @waz

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## beijingwalker

Trango Towers said:


> I dont bash china...but I know when china is doing wrong. This is wrong and now this must stop and if mods are accepting this then they must accept anti china posts too @WebMaster @waz


I m talking about my country, not other countries, can I ask Pakistani posters stop posting things good about Pakistan? That's a very weird request...

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## Trango Towers

beijingwalker said:


> I m talking about my country, not other countries, can I ask Pakistani posters stop posting things good about Pakistan? That's a very weird request...


Lies about the Uighur people is enough..go post your propaganda elsewhere

Why didnt you post about the chinese son that buried his paralysed mother alive and when was dug out after 3 days. THANK God she is alive 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/6921300/woman-buried-alive-by-son-china/amp/

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## beijingwalker

I don't understand why my posting about my country hurt you so much and you just lost it, it's really funny.


----------



## Indos

Agha Sher said:


> Crazy level of ccp propaganda. What is going on? Is this a circus or defence forum?
> 
> @WebMaster
> 
> Yet again, posts pointing out the propaganda are being censored.



One person doesnt represent a whole Uigyur society, let alone a kid. Here in Indonesia, even though we had clearly invaded East Timor and killed many of them in war still some portion of East Timor people support Indonesia over their own people. And you can even see they could possibly win the war over pro Independence group after referendum in1999 if there is no intervention from Australian armed force under UN mandate

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## beijingwalker

Trango Towers said:


> Lies about the Uighur people is enough..go post your propaganda elsewhere


I m talking about my country, I never ask you to stop talking about your country, your request is so weird.

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## Trango Towers

Trango Towers said:


> Lies about the Uighur people is enough..go post your propaganda elsewhere





beijingwalker said:


> I don't understand why my posting about my country hurt you so much and you just lost it, it's really funny.


One word. Propaganda

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## beijingwalker

Indos said:


> One person doesnt represent a whole Uigyur society, let alone a kid. Here in Indonesia, even though we had clearly invaded East Timor and killed many of them in war still some portion of East Timor people support Indonesia over their own people. And you can even see they could possibly win the war over Timor Leste after referendum in1999 if there is no intervention from Australian armed force under UN mandate


I never said she represents all Uighurs.



Trango Towers said:


> One word. Propaganda


Whatevery you say, I m talking about my country, it's none of your business just like what happens in Pakistan is none of my business.


----------



## Indos

beijingwalker said:


> I never said she represents all Uighurs.
> 
> 
> Whatevery you say, I m talking about my country, it's none of your business just like what happens in Pakistan is none of my business.



I am talking to the other guy. And talking about your thread, it is your right to show pro Chinese Uigyur people here.

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## dbc

Slav Defence said:


> DBC,
> If the same video has shown a Chinese girl crying for justice for being repeated torture, gang rape, abuse or denial of freedom of speech and the whole video was in Chinese and translated by op in English about the miserable torture she has gone through then nobody even once would have objected that the video is in Chinese and I know that just like people seek for chances to abuse Americans on basis of dop, in the same way be abusing Chinese without thinking for a moment that op is trying to fight against propaganda campaign. Now since in this video none of the incidents are reported above and little girl is chirping and singing like lovely bird and is making flowery talk, therefore video language has become a problem.
> When we will realize our own bias and for a moment for God sake, hear the other party?
> 
> regards



not the point dear. How are we to contribute if we can’t understand what is being said? I can’t independently verify that the OP has translated the Video correctly-can you?

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## Gentelman

Free uighars.... 
Stop oppression!

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## Trango Towers

Indos said:


> I am talking to the other guy. And talking about your thread, it is your right to show pro Chinese Uigyur people here.


It is also our righg to equally show what the Chinese are doing to the uighur muslims as well then is it not?



beijingwalker said:


> I never said she represents all Uighurs.
> 
> 
> Whatevery you say, I m talking about my country, it's none of your business just like what happens in Pakistan is none of my business.


You are on PDF. Pakistan defence forum. Very much our business.

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## Trango Towers

@beijingwalker so it begins @waz @WebMaster 

If he can post lies....of how appreciative the Uighur are to the Chinese. Then I have the right to post the truth

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## Indos

Trango Towers said:


> It is also our righg to equally show what the Chinese are doing to the uighur muslims as well then is it not?
> .



Yup, it is why I have posted in here couple of times more balanced story about Uigyur coming from Indonesian fact finding initiative who have been invited by Chinese gov to see the life of Uigyur and the so called concentration camp.

It is clearly said something in the middle, that reveals that not all of Chinese gov claim is true and show Islamophobia and some kind of restriction on religious practice do exist there. It is because Chinese gov believe that Uigyur rebellion has something to do with Islamic conservatism, so there is why conservative Muslim become the target and often Uigyur put on the camp merely due to showing conservative attitude. They also cannot pray on the vocational camp and the Indonesian team has concern about the food provided on the camp as well (Halal or not)

Despite that, it is also clearly true that in other part of China, Chinese Muslim can practice their religion freely despite people under 18 cannot practice Islam (and other religion practice) which is also some sort of discrimination and restriction.

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## Trango Towers

Indos said:


> Yup, it is why I have posted in here couple of times more balanced story about Uigyur coming from Indonesian fact finding initiative who have been invited by Chinese gov to see the life of Uigyur and the so called concentration camp.
> 
> It is clearly said something in the middle, that reveals that not all of Chinese gov claim is true and show Islamophobia and some kind of restriction on religious practice do exist there. It is because Chinese gov believe that Uigyur rebellion has something to do with Islamic conservatism, so there is why conservative Muslim become the target and often Uigyur put on the camp merely due to showing conservative attitude. They also cannot pray on the vocational camp and the Indonesian team has concern about the food provided on the camp as well (Halal or not)
> 
> Despite that, it is also clearly true that in other part of China, Chinese Muslim can practice their religion freely despite people under 18 cannot practice Islam (and other religion practice) which is also some sort of discrimination and restriction.


Finally. I agree there are issues on both sides but this one sided propaganda has been allowed by the mods. I have opened 2 threads to show the uighur side. Now this china man will not like it

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## waz

This was originally my idea regarding the multitude of videos, debates , news etc about the region.

I'm bringing this back.

*From now on it all goes in here please otherwise it will be deleted with no warning given. *
*Thank you.*



Trango Towers said:


> Finally. I agree there are issues on both sides but *this one sided propaganda has been allowed by the mods*. I have opened 2 threads to show the uighur side. Now this china man will not like it



No it hasn't stop, tarring us with unfair accusations.

I've told you now what is to happen to all these threads.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Trango Towers said:


> You are on PDF. Pakistan defence forum. Very much our business.



I like this statement of yours. Indeed, on PDF, no topic should be off-limits to any Pakistani.

There are other places for Indian, Chinese, Iranians, Arabs to avoid Pakistanis, if they so choose.

Here, Pakistanis will comment, so be ready.

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## Trango Towers

waz said:


> This was originally my idea regarding the multitude of videos, debates , news etc about the region.
> 
> I'm bringing this back.
> 
> *From now on it all goes in here please otherwise it will be deleted with no warning given. *
> *Thank you.*
> 
> 
> 
> No it hasn't stop, tarring us with unfair accusations.
> 
> I've told you now what is to happen to all these threads.


It's not tarring you. Its pointing out something thats happening and you mods allowing it to happen. This man is opening thread after thread with his agenda against the uighur people. His multiple threads are allowed. I open two and they get merged. Speaks volumes. I guess muslims have no say even on pdf forums and Chinese can do what they like.

Regarding starring you....all the mods were asleep. How long has this been happening? You are not the only mod. But I am grateful that you have acted. As you can see I am annoyed. But it's not specific to you.

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## Nilgiri

Trango Towers said:


> It's not tarring you. Its pointing out something thats happening and you mods allowing it to happen. This man is opening thread after thread with his agenda against the uighur people. His multiple threads are allowed. I open two and they get merged. Speaks volumes. I guess muslims have no say even on pdf forums and Chinese can do what they like.
> 
> Regarding starring you....all the mods were asleep. How long has this been happening? You are not the only mod. But I am grateful that you have acted. As you can see I am annoyed. But it's not specific to you.



Its ok chill....treat it as a new leaf start here....all positive/neutral/negative news/videos/threads regarding Xinjiang now have to be posted in here.

Report anything you see being spammed outside it.

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## Trango Towers

Nilgiri said:


> Its ok chill....treat it as a new leaf start here....all positive/neutral/negative news/videos/threads regarding Xinjiang now have to be posted in here.
> 
> Report anything you see being spammed outside it.


Well I am grateful @waz that he has acted

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## waz

Trango Towers said:


> Well I am grateful @waz that he has acted



Thanks and I'll like to add this thread is very old if you look at the date. It solves a lot of issue and worked well in the past.

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## Trango Towers

waz said:


> Thanks and I'll like to add this thread is very old if you look at the date. It solves a lot of issue and worked well in the past.



Thank brother. Have a good Ramadan. We have to think of all our brothers and sister in trouble wherever they are. Uighur or Palestine. Kashmir or iraq


----------



## beijingwalker

Trango Towers said:


> You are on PDF. Pakistan defence forum. Very much our business.


What happens in China is our business, what I post may be some business for the Mods, but not you, you have no more rights here in PDF than me and you don't represent Pakistan the slightest.



Trango Towers said:


> @beijingwalker so it begins @waz @WebMaster
> 
> If he can post lies....of how appreciative the Uighur are to the Chinese. Then I have the right to post the truth


You can, I don't have objections, we can both show evidence in the hands, and I m pretty sure I have way more evidence of what happening on the ground in Xinjiang everyday, I can out post you hands down with no sweat.

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## Char

Indos said:


> Yup, it is why I have posted in here couple of times more balanced story about Uigyur coming from Indonesian fact finding initiative who have been invited by Chinese gov to see the life of Uigyur and the so called concentration camp.
> 
> It is clearly said something in the middle, that reveals that not all of Chinese gov claim is true and show Islamophobia and some kind of restriction on religious practice do exist there. It is because Chinese gov believe that Uigyur rebellion has something to do with Islamic conservatism, so there is why conservative Muslim become the target and often Uigyur put on the camp merely due to showing conservative attitude. They also cannot pray on the vocational camp and the Indonesian team has concern about the food provided on the camp as well (Halal or not)
> 
> Despite that, it is also clearly true that in other part of China, Chinese Muslim can practice their religion freely despite people under 18 cannot practice Islam (and other religion practice) which is also some sort of discrimination and restriction.



There's restriction but no oppression or persecution, there's restriction in Muslim countries to none Muslims too.

The most important thing Muslim or none Muslim are equal in China, are Muslim countries giving equality to none Muslims?


----------



## beijingwalker

*Uyghur couple's new "sweet" baking business*
*



*

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## Trango Towers

beijingwalker said:


> What happens in China is our business, what I post may be some business for the Mods, but not you, you have no more rights here in PDF than me and you don't represent Pakistan the slightest.
> 
> 
> You can, I don't have objections, we can both show evidence in the hands, and I m pretty sure I have way more evidence of what happening on the ground in Xinjiang everyday, I can out post you hands down with no sweat.


Whatever dude.


----------



## beijingwalker

*A tale of targeted poverty alleviation: How a Xinjiang village moves toward prosperity*
*



*

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## Trango Towers

beijingwalker said:


> What happens in China is our business, what I post may be some business for the Mods, but not you, you have no more rights here in PDF than me and you don't represent Pakistan the slightest.
> 
> 
> You can, I don't have objections, we can both show evidence in the hands, and I m pretty sure I have way more evidence of what happening on the ground in Xinjiang everyday, I can out post you hands down with no sweat.



*What happens in China is our business *then go and post your nonsense on a chinese forum. This is a pakistani defence forum and not your business to post propaganda for china. Bye little man.



beijingwalker said:


> *A tale of targeted poverty alleviation: How a Xinjiang village moves toward prosperity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


https://depauliaonline.com/47500/op...of-uyghurs-is-linked-to-economic-convenience/

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## beijingwalker

Trango Towers said:


> *What happens in China is our business *then go and post your nonsense on a chinese forum. This is a pakistani defence forum and not your business to post propaganda for china. By little man.
> 
> 
> https://depauliaonline.com/47500/op...of-uyghurs-is-linked-to-economic-convenience/


I do, and also here cause it's an international forum which has a China section, why are you so eager to do the mod's job. you are just like me in the forum, no more ,no less.



Trango Towers said:


> *What happens in China is our business *then go and post your nonsense on a chinese forum. This is a pakistani defence forum and not your business to post propaganda for china. Bye little man.
> 
> 
> https://depauliaonline.com/47500/op...of-uyghurs-is-linked-to-economic-convenience/


I m posting today's news, if try to find past news and reports, PDF is not enough for all my posts, lol


----------



## Trango Towers

beijingwalker said:


> I do, and also here cause it's an international forum which has a China section, why are you so eager to do the mod's job. you are just like me in the forum, no more ,no less.


Then know this speak with respect or you will be disrespected. I have chinese friends who are lovely people even have chinese employees who are now friends but I have never heard then vomit rubbish like you. You treat others good they will treat you good.



beijingwalker said:


> I do, and also here cause it's an international forum which has a China section, why are you so eager to do the mod's job. you are just like me in the forum, no more ,no less.
> 
> 
> I m posting today's news, if try to find past news and reports, PDF is not enough for all my posts, lol


I am updating people. Why is your butt hurting. We are FREE to post. This is pdf not Xinjiang where you will control what I do.

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## beijingwalker

Trango Towers said:


> Then know this speak with respect or you will be disrespected. I have chinese friends who are lovely people even have chinese employees who are now friends but I have never heard then vomit rubbish like you. You treat others good they will treat you good.
> 
> 
> I am updating people. Why is your butt hurting.


I show respects to friends and regards many China friendly Pakistani friends on PDF as good friends and love to read their posts and comments, but you are right I don't respect China haters and bashers, live with it.



Trango Towers said:


> TThis is pdf not Xinjiang where you will control what I do.


You don't have to tell me what PDF is, I've been here much longer than you have and suggestions should be from mods, not you.


----------



## sinait

Trango Towers said:


> *What happens in China is our business *then go and post your nonsense on a chinese forum. This is a pakistani defence forum and not your business to post propaganda for china. Bye little man.
> 
> 
> https://depauliaonline.com/47500/op...of-uyghurs-is-linked-to-economic-convenience/


This is SO WRONG.
There are many others interested in what happens in China and Xinjiang.
We are happy that @beijingwalker has put in MUCH EFFORT to collect and give us China related information.
Nobody stopping you from posting alternative views of life in Xinjiang.
If you are NOT INTERESTED, Get Lost from this thread.

I suggest you put your effort to help those MINORITIES SUFFERING in India, especially in Kashmir or give us some insights on how happy people are in Balochistan.
Otherwise you are just TROLLING.
.


----------



## Trango Towers

beijingwalker said:


> I show respects to friends and regards many China friendly Pakistani friends on PDF as good friends and love to read their posts and comments, but you are right I don't respect China haters and bashers, live with it.
> 
> 
> You don't have to tell me what PDF is, I've been here much longer than you have and suggestions should be from mods, not you.


Seems you live here day and night. Try getting a job instead of being a paid troll. Your pathetic post are making people question you personally and china generally. You think you are doing a positive thing bit your bs posts make people Google and find that your posts stink like chinese bat soup



sinait said:


> This is SO WRONG.
> There are many others interested in what happens in China and Xinjiang.
> We are happy that @beijingwalker has put in MUCH EFFORT to collect and give us China related information.
> Nobody stopping you from posting alternative views of life in Xinjiang.
> If you are NOT INTERESTED, Get Lost from this thread.
> 
> I suggest you put your effort to help those MINORITIES SUFFERING in India, especially in Kashmir or give us some insights on how happy people are in Balochistan.
> Otherwise you are just TROLLING.
> .


Kashmir will be free of india and you get a brain...ask why is he posting such pathetic stuff and only you are happy to read it....well am I stopping you. Read but try to read what uighur say as well about Xinjiang not just the Han Chinese.
Re Balochistan....you read negative from terrorist and post comments here. Do you see me or any Pakistani posting pathetic stuff like little kid from Gwadar wave a pakistani flag....we dont need to do we. This han chinese has a need to post...Uighur girl shows chinese ID card

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## beijingwalker

Trango Towers said:


> Seems you live here day and night. Try getting a job instead of being a paid troll. Your pathetic post are making people question you personally and china generally. You think you are doing a positive thing bit your bs posts make people Google and find that your posts stink like chinese bat soup


You too, I have a business but largely run by my employees, coronvirus crisis did hit my business hard but we'll survive, I always know personal attacks are always your last resorts when you are running out of arguements and points, and then as expected you will lose it, now I can see you are losing it again, lol, good to see.



Trango Towers said:


> Read but try to read what uighur say as well about Xinjiang not just the Han Chinese


I have way more videos and news about what Uighur say than you can find, that's for sure.


----------



## Trango Towers

beijingwalker said:


> You too, I have a business but largely run by my employees, coronvirus crisis did hit my business hard but we'll survive, I always know personal attacks are always your last resorts when you are running out of arguements and points, and then as expected you will lose it, now I can see you are losing it again, lol, good to see.
> 
> 
> I have way more videos and news about what Uighur say than you can find, that's for sure.


Well I hope your business recovers fully. This COVID 19 is a curse for everyone. 

Re more videos ... is this d#$k measuring contest? Because I am pretty sure you will lose


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## beijingwalker

Trango Towers said:


> Re more videos ... is this d#$k measuring contest? Because I am pretty sure you will lose


I will post more for people to have an alternative news option against western media China bashing, block me if you hate to see them.


----------



## Trango Towers

beijingwalker said:


> I will post more for people to have an alternative news option against western media China bashing, block me if you hate to see them.


Good and I will also post about what china is like...


----------



## beijingwalker

Trango Towers said:


> Good and I will also post about what china is like...


Good, I love to see.


----------



## JSCh

*In remote Xinjiang, medics on the go to leave no one behind in "Healthy China"*
Source: Xinhua| 2020-05-10 10:27:34|Editor: huaxia




Aerial photo taken on May 2, 2020 shows Yaragiz Village in Xihxu Township in Yecheng County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)

*All residents in Xinjiang are eligible for a free health check-up every year. To make sure no one is left behind in "Healthy China," medics have to go on a month-long journey to visit remote villages on the Pamir Plateau.*

URUMQI, May 10 (Xinhua) -- As the sun rose over the mountains, the village of Yaragiz woke up for a busy day. It was the day that some 90 families were due to undergo their annual health check-up.

Since 2016, Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region has invested more than 4 billion yuan (about 564 million U.S. dollars) in just one project under the "Healthy China" initiative. Today in this northwestern region of China, all residents are entitled to free annual health checks.



Villagers wait in line to receive health check results at the clinic of Yaragiz Village in Xihxu Township in Yecheng County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, May 2, 2020. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)

At Yaragiz health clinic, villagers formed orderly queues as they registered for blood tests, electrocardiograms, ultrasound scans, and X-rays. Medics from the township hospital were also on hand to explain available health services and disseminate healthcare advice.



A villager holding a social security card waits to register for a health check at the clinic of Yaragiz Village in Xihxu Township in Yecheng County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, May 2, 2020. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)



A villager has his blood pressure measured at the clinic of Yaragiz Village in Xihxu Township in Yecheng County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, May 2, 2020. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)



Eziz, director of the physical examination department of Xihxu Township health center, checks the eyesight of a villager at the clinic of Yaragiz Village in Xihxu Township in Yecheng County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, May 2, 2020. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)

Before the launch of this project, many elderly rural residents had never heard of health check-ups, let alone seen modern medical equipment. Today, they are living healthy, happier lives.

Eziz Hudaberdi, from the Xihxu township hospital health examination department, said that residents of remote areas like Yaragiz seldom ate vegetables and tended to lack vitamins. Just a cursory glance at the local greenhouses, bursting with potatoes, cabbages, chilies, and tomatoes shows that this situation is changing.



A doctor conducts B-mode ultrasound check for a villager at the clinic of Yaragiz Village in Xihxu Township in Yecheng County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, May 2, 2020. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)



A doctor registers the information of a villager for a health check at the clinic of Yaragiz Village in Xihxu Township in Yecheng County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, May 2, 2020. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)

Xihxu Township is around 2,000 kilometers from Urumqi, the regional capital. It administers nine villages scattered across different valleys, the most remote village is 200 kilometers away from the township seat.

To ensure that all residents can have their annual health check-ups, teams from the township hospital have paid house calls in remote villages over the past five years.



In this aerial photo taken on May 2, 2020, medics from Xihxu Township health center drive on a winding road with medical equipments in Xihxu Township in Yecheng County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)

To reach Yaragiz, which is 3,500 meters above sea level, Eziz and his colleagues have to navigate narrow, winding mountain roads as well as three mountain passes. Along the way are steep, barren slopes, where falling stones or landslides are a regular threat. The 72-kilometer trip takes even the most experienced driver three hours to finish.



Medics from Xihxu Township health center drive in the mountains with medical equipment to provide health check services to villagers in Xihxu Township in Yecheng County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, May 2, 2020. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)

A one-way bus trip to the town costs 100 yuan, so many Yaragiz residents choose to go by motorbike, even though they have to push the bikes up some of the steepest inclines.

"That's why we come to the villages every year. We hope to save them the trouble and money," said Eziz.



Eziz contacts the vehicles behind him through an intercom as he stops for a rest on the way to provide health check services to villagers in Xihxu Township in Yecheng County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, May 2, 2020. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)

"It's much more convenient to get a health check-up here instead of in town," said one Yaragiz resident, "It's a huge task -- even for the young lads -- to get here."



Medics from Xihxu Township health center pose for a group photo as they take a rest after driving across a snowy mountain in Xihxu Township in Yecheng County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, May 2, 2020. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)

Eziz and his team have not been home for a month. Unable to see his eight-month-old daughter, he makes the most of any free time to call home. But away from the community, the phone signal is non-existent, and the new father has to take consolation in photos on his phone.



A doctor contacts his family after arriving at Yaragiz Village in Xihxu Township in Yecheng County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, May 1, 2020. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)



After a bumpy ride, a doctor repairs a medical equipment at the clinic of Yaragiz Village in Xihxu Township in Yecheng County, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, May 1, 2020. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)

"Despite the high mountains and long roads, we must take good care of the health of these villagers. No one should be left behind."

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## beijingwalker

waz said:


> This was originally my idea regarding the multitude of videos, debates , news etc about the region.
> 
> I'm bringing this back.
> 
> *From now on it all goes in here please otherwise it will be deleted with no warning given. *
> *Thank you.*
> 
> 
> 
> No it hasn't stop, tarring us with unfair accusations.
> 
> I've told you now what is to happen to all these threads.


Haters gonna hate, they attack China in all China related threads, not just about Xinjiang, so putting all Xinjiang topics in one thread won't help.

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## Indos

Char said:


> There's restriction but no oppression or persecution, there's restriction in Muslim countries to none Muslims too.
> 
> The most important thing Muslim or none Muslim are equal in China, are Muslim countries giving equality to none Muslims?



Of course we bring relatively similar right and equality, in Indonesia non Muslim has many right. In here, Indonesia, their kid can practice and learn their religion freely. They can also build their school based on their religion like Christian primary school and so on. It is basic human right and we respect it.

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## Nilgiri

Indos said:


> Of course we bring relatively similar right and equality, in Indonesia non Muslim has many right. In here, Indonesia, their kid can practice and learn their religion freely. They can also build their school based on their religion like Christian primary school and so on. It is basic human right and we respect it.



Pancasila

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## Char

Indos said:


> Of course we bring relatively similar right and equality, in Indonesia non Muslim has many right. In here, Indonesia, their kid can practice and learn their religion freely. They can also build their school based on their religion like Christian primary school and so on. It is basic human right and we respect it.



At least there are restrictions for Chinese language and religion in Indonesia.
And I would like to know the situation in other Muslim countries, especially the attitude to atheists and gender equality.

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## Nike

Char said:


> At least there are restrictions for Chinese language and religion in Indonesia.
> And I would like to know the situation in other Muslim countries, especially the attitude to atheists and gender equality.



Since 2001, Indonesia presiden Abdurrahman Wahid , had abolished anti China discrimination laws. Indonesia Chinese can have their own China names, can have identity cards, can joint the government, police and military , entering public school, received Social funds for poor China Indonesian and receiving benefit of Universal healthcare system.

There is no restriction on religion, even China New year is National Holiday beside Idul Fitri,  Christmas, Vesak and so on.

for the language, the only official language is Bahasa Indonesia, and even we are discriminating against our own local language like Javanese, Sunda, Batak and so on so what about Chinese Hokien or Mandarin. It just we are not forbid them to release Mandarin journal or News in TV, but we are not encouraged them to do so.

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## Indos

Char said:


> At least there are restrictions for Chinese language and religion in Indonesia.
> And I would like to know the situation in other Muslim countries, especially the attitude to atheists and gender equality.



Nope. There is no restriction on Chinese language. School language here can offer Mandarin lesson as well. Even one of our best university (state owned), University of Indonesia offer college degree for Mandarin and one of my high school friend attended the school.

Atheist Chinese can live in Indonesia and register themselves as Kong Hu Cu (Confucius) believer as we know Confucius is not even a religion and only a philosophy, but somehow we accepted it as part of official religion in Indonesia since early 2000.

Gender equality ???? Indonesia has women President in early 2000 (Megawati) and now the chairman of our parliament is also a women. Puan Maharani.

Puan Maharani (current Parliamentary Chairman)





All Muslim nations have practice freedom of religion since the birth of Islam. No compulsion in Islam and it is stated clearly in Quran. Egypt until this day has huge portion of Christian believer (10 percent) and so Lebanon. Other Muslim nation like Iraq, Turkey, Marocco also still have non Muslim population. The only limitation is only for two Holly Muslim places which is Makah and Medinah in which only Muslim who can enter the city.

Quran. AlBaqarah verse 256

*There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.*

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## waz

beijingwalker said:


> Haters gonna hate, they attack China in all China related threads, not just about Xinjiang, so putting all Xinjiang topics in one thread won't help.



Haters will hate on anything they don't like. This is to stop the sheer number of threads cluttering the place on one issue.

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## cyber

What happened to the video?


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Char said:


> At least there are restrictions for Chinese language and religion in Indonesia.
> And I would like to know the situation in other Muslim countries, especially the attitude to atheists and gender equality.



Stop making blanket statements about Muslim countries without facts. This is Islamophobia.

If you want to learn about Muslim countries, you can easily ask us. Here, you have Pakistanis, Indonesians, Turks, Iranians, BDs, Afghans, etc.

There is no excuse for ignorance.


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## Irfan Baloch

@Agha Sher and @beijingwalker 
NO MORE PERSONAL INSULTS PLEASE

stay civil and avoid racist remarks of any kind both implied or direct.


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## cyber

Indos said:


> Nope. There is no restriction on Chinese language. School language here can offer Mandarin lesson as well. Even one of our best university (state owned), University of Indonesia offer college degree for Mandarin and one of my high school friend attended the school.



LOL. If there are no restriction, then tell me why is it that Chinese in Indonesia can't speak any Chinese fluently?

I have travelled around all over Asia and every Chinese know Indonesian Chinese can't speak Chinese.


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## Char

Indos said:


> Nope. There is no restriction on Chinese language. School language here can offer Mandarin lesson as well. Even one of our best university (state owned), University of Indonesia offer college degree for Mandarin and one of my high school friend attended the school.
> 
> Atheist Chinese can live in Indonesia and register themselves as Kong Hu Cu (Confucius) believer as we know Confucius is not even a religion and only a philosophy, but somehow we accepted it as part of official religion in Indonesia since early 2000.
> 
> Gender equality ???? Indonesia has women President in early 2000 (Megawati) and now the chairman of our parliament is also a women. Puan Maharani.
> 
> Puan Maharani (current Parliamentary Chairman)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Muslim nations have practice freedom of religion since the birth of Islam. No compulsion in Islam and it is stated clearly in Quran. Egypt until this day has huge portion of Christian believer (10 percent) and so Lebanon. Other Muslim nation like Iraq, Turkey, Marocco also still have non Muslim population. The only limitation is only for two Holly Muslim places which is Makah and Medinah in which only Muslim who can enter the city.
> 
> Quran. AlBaqarah verse 256
> 
> *There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.*



Looks better than before and some Muslim countries.
But I still worry about, some politicians always promote populism, extremists harass none Muslims, the rights written on the paper is not on the ground. The law can't pulish the mass.

Female politicians don't mean that ordinary female have equal rights.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Stop making blanket statements about Muslim countries without facts. This is Islamophobia.
> 
> If you want to learn about Muslim countries, you can easily ask us. Here, you have Pakistanis, Indonesians, Turks, Iranians, BDs, Afghans, etc.
> 
> There is no excuse for ignorance.



Glad to hear about the facts not the blanket statement of islamophobia.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

How can you make blanket insults on all Muslims? What kind of outdated mindset is this?

This thread is to discuss Uyghurs, not to host your diatribes against Islam and Muslims.

I have reported your nonsense.

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## Indos

cyber said:


> LOL. If there are no restriction, then tell me why is it that Chinese in Indonesia can't speak any Chinese fluently?
> 
> I have travelled around all over Asia and every Chinese know Indonesian Chinese can't speak Chinese.



Did you watch the video until finish ? There you go, you will find out that it is impractical to use Mandarin in Indonesia since every body speak Bahasa Indonesia. Even that lady refuse to learn Mandarin when her mother try to get her to learn Mandarin in language school. I think it describes all other Chinese Indonesian as well when they were still kids. They dont get the urge to learn Mandarin like Chinese Malaysian do. It is also because our society is more united and not divided like Malaysian.

Those Chinese also love Bahasa Indonesia just like being revealed by her since it is a simple and easy language and it is neutral as well that make us easy to speak other language like English and Arabic fluently. You can tell it on how easy we can understand her English.

Yup, Chinese school is banned in Indonesia. Every school must use Bahasa Indonesia on their teaching. Similar way there is no Javanese school, Minang School, Batak school, Sundanese school either here. But of course for international community there are Korean/Japanese/English school in here, particularly in Jakarta.

Chinese Indonesian is more nationalistic than other Chinese living in other SEA nations. Deal with it.

Regardless of that there is still one misinformation here. It is wrong to say that you can die if you use Chinese language (Mandarine/Cantonese/etc) during Soeharto regime. It is utterly nonsense. Here @Brainsucker, our Chinese Indonesian friend who live under Soeharto regime can explain it to you.

Anyway stressing more on the information given by her that Indonesian is a neutral language (and also beautiful) that make it easy to speak other language more easily and because of that many Indonesian ethnics including Chinese ethnic like the language can be seen in this video. Some even can speak English using different version like Indian/British. My younger sister can also speak English using both American and British accent even though live in Jakarta since birth. Younger generation can even speak English even better due to the influence of satellite TV who airs program like CNN/HBO/ and others. We also dont have any difficulty in reading Quran and Indonesian are good Quran reciter even some of them are world winner Quran reciter.

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## Naofumi

Indos said:


> Did you watch the video until finish ? There you go, you will find out that it is impractical to use Mandarin in Indonesia since every body speak Bahasa Indonesia. Even that lady refuse to learn Mandarin when her mother try to get her to learn Mandarin in language school. I think it describes all other Chinese Indonesian as well when they were still kids. They dont get the urge to learn Mandarin like Chinese Malaysian do. It is also because our society is more united and not divided like Malaysian.
> 
> Those Chinese also love Bahasa Indonesia just like being revealed by her since it is a simple and easy language and it is neutral as well that make us easy to speak other language like English and Arabic fluently. You can tell it on how easy we can understand her English.
> 
> Yup, Chinese school is banned in Indonesia. Every school must use Bahasa Indonesia on their teaching. Similar way there is no Javanese school, Minang School, Batak school, Sundanese school either here. But of course for international community there are Korean/Japanese/English school in here, particularly in Jakarta.
> 
> Chinese Indonesian is more nationalistic than other Chinese living in other SEA nations. Deal with it.
> 
> Regardless of that there is still one misinformation here. It is wrong to say that you can die if you use Chinese language (Mandarine/Cantonese/etc) during Soeharto regime. It is utterly nonsense. Here @Brainsucker, our Chinese Indonesian friend who live under Soeharto regime can explain it to you.
> 
> Anyway stressing more on the information given by her that Indonesian is a neutral language and because of that many Indonesian ethnics including Chinese ethnic like the language can be seen in this video. Some even can speak English using different version like Indian/British. My younger sister can also speak English using both American and British accent even though live in Jakarta since birth. Younger generation can even speak English even better due to the influence of satellite TV who airs program like CNN/HBO/ and others.


The girl with the name Nazneen looks purely Indian to me, also only one girl (Shehnaz) has epicanthic eye folds. Is this common in Indonesia?


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## Indos

Naofumi said:


> The girl with the name Nazneen looks purely Indian to me, also only one girl (Shehnaz) has epicanthic eye folds. Is this common in Indonesia?



Yup those two have some Pakistani blood. Pakistani/Indian descend do exist but not as many as Arab/Chinese descend here. I have some Arab Indonesian and Chinese Indonesian friend at school but never have any Pakistani/Indian descend. Usually Indian descend (Hindu) live in North Sumatra. And this is why one of Puteri Indonesia candidate (our beauty pageant) who represent North Sumatra is Indian descend. Unfortunately she doesnt win. 






Jessica Fitriana. Third winner of Puteri Indonesia 2019 also mix Indonesian-Pakistan






There are Indian descent conglomerates as well like the one who own Indorama (textile) and IM Texmaco (Heavy Engineering).

Punjabi families are also well known in Film and soap opera industry as producers

Amrit Punjabi (MVP Picture production house)





Based on the DNA finding, Indonesia do have some significant amount of DNA from Southern Asia, even the percentage is bigger then Middle East and East Asian percentage. Maybe it is due to ancient immigration. Even my sister daughter look Indian even though both her and her husband are native. She has big eyes and many think she is like Indian kid. 






https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

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## Naofumi

Indos said:


> Usually Indian descend (Hindu) live in North Sumatra. And this is why one of Puteri Indonesia candidate (our beauty pageant) who represent North Sumatra is Indian descend. Unfortunately she doesnt win.


I thought Hindus lived only in Bali, thanks for the info. Also, Meghna Sharma (name of that pageant) is a purely Indian name.


Indos said:


> Based on the DNA finding, Indonesia do have some significant amount of DNA from Southern Asia, even the percentage is bigger then Middle East and East Asian percentage. Maybe it is due to ancient immigration. Even my sister daughter look Indian even though both her and her husband are native. She has big eyes and many think she is like Indian kid.


That's why you're called "Indo-nesia"

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## Indos

Naofumi said:


> I thought Hindus lived only in Bali, thanks for the info. Also, Meghna Sharma (name of that pageant) is a purely Indian name.
> 
> That's why you're called "Indo-nesia"



There are Hindu temple as well in Jakarta

Are you Indian Muslim bro ?

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## Naofumi

Indos said:


> Are you Indian Muslim bro ?


Yes, bro.

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## Brainsucker

Indos said:


> Did you watch the video until finish ? There you go, you will find out that it is impractical to use Mandarin in Indonesia since every body speak Bahasa Indonesia. Even that lady refuse to learn Mandarin when her mother try to get her to learn Mandarin in language school. I think it describes all other Chinese Indonesian as well when they were still kids. They dont get the urge to learn Mandarin like Chinese Malaysian do. It is also because our society is more united and not divided like Malaysian.
> 
> Those Chinese also love Bahasa Indonesia just like being revealed by her since it is a simple and easy language and it is neutral as well that make us easy to speak other language like English and Arabic fluently. You can tell it on how easy we can understand her English.
> 
> Yup, Chinese school is banned in Indonesia. Every school must use Bahasa Indonesia on their teaching. Similar way there is no Javanese school, Minang School, Batak school, Sundanese school either here. But of course for international community there are Korean/Japanese/English school in here, particularly in Jakarta.
> 
> Chinese Indonesian is more nationalistic than other Chinese living in other SEA nations. Deal with it.
> 
> Regardless of that there is still one misinformation here. It is wrong to say that you can die if you use Chinese language (Mandarine/Cantonese/etc) during Soeharto regime. It is utterly nonsense. Here @Brainsucker, our Chinese Indonesian friend who live under Soeharto regime can explain it to you.
> 
> Anyway stressing more on the information given by her that Indonesian is a neutral language (and also beautiful) that make it easy to speak other language more easily and because of that many Indonesian ethnics including Chinese ethnic like the language can be seen in this video. Some even can speak English using different version like Indian/British. My younger sister can also speak English using both American and British accent even though live in Jakarta since birth. Younger generation can even speak English even better due to the influence of satellite TV who airs program like CNN/HBO/ and others. We also dont have any difficulty in reading Quran and Indonesian are good Quran reciter even some of them are world winner Quran reciter.



I beg to pardon @Indos, but Soeharto really prohibit Chinese language; that's including writing and speaking. You can't even write Huayi (Chinese fonts), when you want to write an address to a letter, when you want to sent a letter to Taiwan or Hongkong. (well, my Great uncle lived in Taiwan, and two of my father's older brothers in Hongkong. So this was my father's own experience). That's because Soeharto accuse China to be involved in G30SPKI.

I don't really know if that prohibition became Undang-Undang or Perpu. Maybe it's not. Maybe it because most Chinese in Java were afraid to speak and write Chinese at that time; after the event of "PKI mass killing in 1965 - 1966". They were afraid to be accused as PKI. Because everything about China were considered as PKI.

But I think, it became more and more lenient with the passage of time. I still remember Hongkong songs became popular around here in '90 era  Andi Lau was even came to Indonesia, Condor Heroes TV Show became popular here in Television.

But, most Chinese who can't speak Chinese were people who live in Java Island. I still can see people from Sulawesi, Kalimantan, etc speak Chinese, and several other dialectic. Like Hokkien and Hakka. My Javanese friend who worked in Medan became fluent in speaking Hokkien. And he can still speaks Hokkien now, even after return to my town.

I think, even when Chinese were prohibited, you could still learn Chinese at that time, in private study, by private tutor (Because I learn that when I was young). But because it was very seldom to use, only a few people (who have strong Chinese tradition in their family) can really speak Chinese. The others may learn something, but mostly forgot after some passage of time. You simply didn't speak Chinese so often in Indonesia. There was not enough chance to do it.

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## Indos

Brainsucker said:


> But I think, it became more and more lenient with the passage of time. I still remember Hongkong songs became popular around here in '90 era  Andi Lau was even came to Indonesia, Condor Heroes TV Show became popular here in Television.
> 
> But, most Chinese who can't speak Chinese were people who live in Java Island. I still can see people from Sulawesi, Kalimantan, etc speak Chinese, and several other dialectic. Like Hokkien and Hakka. My Javanese friend who worked in Medan became fluent in speaking Hokkien. And he can still speaks Hokkien now, even after return to my town.
> 
> I think, even when Chinese were prohibited, you could still learn Chinese at that time, in private study, by private tutor (Because I learn that when I was young). But because it was very seldom to use, only a few people (who have strong Chinese tradition in their family) can really speak Chinese. The others may learn something, but mostly forgot after some passage of time. You simply didn't speak Chinese so often in Indonesia.



Yup as I said private tutor or even Private Language school can still provide Mandarin lesson during Soeharto regime and I believe Mandarin are also taught in state owned universities like University of Indonesia even during Soeharto regime. 



Brainsucker said:


> But I think, it became more and more lenient with the passage of time. I still remember Hongkong songs became popular around here in '90 era  Andi Lau was even came to Indonesia, Condor Heroes TV Show became popular here in Television.



Yup I still remember Ci Pek Tong (Bocah Tua Nakal) 






The Hongkong songs that is popular as far as I know is OST of Condor Heroes that was dubbed by Indonesian singer, Yuni Shara.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Indos said:


> Jessica Fitriana. Third winner of Puteri Indonesia 2019 also mix Indonesian-Pakistan



Wow, I didn't know you had Pakistanis. She looks 100% Pakistani.

What region of your country are they in?


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## Indos

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Wow, I didn't know you had Pakistanis. She looks 100% Pakistani.
> 
> What region of your country are they in?



Pakistani I believe scattered through out Indonesia but mostly live in big cities. There is one Pakistani restaurant not far from my place in South Jakarta for instant.

That Pakistani Indonesian beauty contestant is a representative of West Java province. Her father is Pakistani while her mother is native Indonesian (possibly Sundanese)

Some current Indonesian actress with Pakistani blood

Riri Febrian





Raline Shah





Fairuz A Rafiq (she also has Arab blood)





Marissa Haque (Politician/Parliament member)

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## rott

Naofumi said:


> Just stop threads like *Uyghur girl praised Xi Xingping as his daddy*, post about Space program, defence, start-up, economy, universities and no one will object.


Are you stupid or something? Who the fk are you to tell us what to post?

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## Naofumi

rott said:


> Are you stupid or something? Who the fk are you to tell us what to post?


Ok, post about Uyghur girl praising daddy Xingping then. I said the above because the guy was accusing me of hating China regardless of the content. Now, FO.


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## rott

Naofumi said:


> Ok, post about Uyghur girl praising daddy Xingping then. I said the above because the guy was accusing me of hating China regardless of the content. Now, FO.


Regardless of the issue, you are no one, I repeat NO ONE to tell us what to post and what not to post. Just make sure you don't interfere again ever in our postings.

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## Naofumi

rott said:


> Regardless of the issue, you are no one, I repeat NO ONE to tell us what to post and what not to post. Just make sure you don't interfere again ever in our postings.


FO, that guy was spamming. And if someone spams again, I will, this is not China where I can be put in camps.


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## beijingwalker

*Medics go on grueling trip to give villagers free annual health checks in Xinjiang*
In remote Xinjiang, NW China, medics go on a month-long grueling trip to give villagers free health checks. No one is left behind!

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## donkeykong

Should forcibly integrate these ungrateful like we did with jurchens, Manchurians, Mongols etc.


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## beijingwalker

Most people in Xinjiang are very grateful and thankful about the great prosperity that the government brought to the land, only very very few fanatics tend to stir trouble, with the rapid improvement of the standard of living in Xinjiang , those few fanatics will become a thing of the past. Xinjiang prosper and progress with China and it's unstoppable.


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## Aspen

_




_
Image credit: Axios/Aïda Amer.

Axios has obtained a Chinese government request sent to the Turkish government for a Uighur man who fled Xinjiang amid worsening repression.

Why it matters: Uighurs living outside China have long suspected that Beijing is using its growing diplomatic and economic clout to pressure foreign governments into interrogating and deporting them.


These documents from 2016 and 2017 — together with Turkey's treatment of the man after that — provide rare proof this is happening.
"I spend most of my nights in fear. I usually don’t sleep until after 1am because I am afraid they will come for me and my family." — Enver Turdi, in an interview with Axios
Details: Enver Turdi, the man named in the extradition request, has lived in Turkey since early 2014 when he fled Xinjiang, a region in northwest China that is home to around 10 million Uighurs, a Turkic-speaking ethnic minority.


In 2012 and 2013, Enver passed along information about Chinese government abuses to Radio Free Asia and to Uighur organizations abroad, he told Axios in an interview. He left China on a tourist visa after one of his associates was detained.
In 2015, the Chinese Embassy in Turkey refused to issue him a new passport, without which he could not renew his Turkish temporary residence permit, Enver told Axios. In 2017, he was placed in a deportation facility for 12 months after being unable to produce valid residence documents.
Turkish security officials then interrogated him and claimed that he had been running a pro-Islamic State website, which he denied, and showed him a copy of his 2004 graduation photo, which Enver says they could only have obtained from China. His case was sent to a criminal court, not an immigration court.
Enver's case is still pending in the Turkish courts.

Background: The Chinese Communist Party has placed heavy restrictions on Uighurs and other majority-Muslim ethnic groups in western China.


In early 2017, the Chinese government began putting hundreds of thousands of Uighurs into extrajudicial mass detention camps, where detainees are kept in dire conditions and forced to attend re-education classes. Many others receive long prison sentences without fair trials.
The Chinese government has said its measures in Xinjiang are intended to fight terrorism and extremism, but academics and human rights groups say what's happening is a cultural genocide on a scale not seen since World War II.
The documents: The dossier is 92 pages long and includes the Chinese government extradition request, dated May 2016, supporting police reports, Turkish translations provided by the Chinese government, and Turkish government documents from 2017 indicating the request was accepted by the Turkish Ministry of Justice and that court proceedings were initiated.


Enver's lawyer obtained the dossier in early 2020, the first time that Enver says he knew for sure that the Chinese government was behind his troubles in Turkey.
To authenticate the documents, Axios consulted experts on Chinese and Turkish law, human rights groups who work on cases in Turkey and China, and researchers who focus on Xinjiang.
What they're saying: The Chinese government accused Enver of creating a pro-Islamic State website and participating in a terrorist organization. Enver denies these accusations.


Beijing asked Turkish authorities to discover Enver's whereabouts, seize or freeze his assets, arrest him, and "repatriate him to China."
The documents themselves aren't formally marked as classified, but the Chinese government instructed Turkish officials to keep the case a secret, writing, "The details of this case are classified, we ask the Turkish side to keep it confidential in accordance with local laws."
The Chinese Embassy in Washington, D.C., did not respond to a request for comment.

Context: After thousands of Uighurs left China amid worsening repression over the past decade, the Chinese government launched a quiet global campaign to force Uighurs to return.


Some countries, including Egypt and Thailand, have sent dozens of Uighurs back to China. Those who returned often disappeared. Some have reportedly died.
“The lengths that China will go to control Uighurs is stunning,” said Elise Anderson, a program officer at the Uighur Human Rights Project, a U.S.-based advocacy organization, told Axios.
After the rise of the Islamic State, which a small number of Uighurs joined, the Chinese government has increasingly framed Uighur religious and cultural activity as dangerous extremism. One official list of signs of "religious extremism" included "distorting Xinjiang history," "young men wearing long beards" and "closing restaurants during Ramadan."
"China puts pressure on Turkey, and Turkey has to jump through hoops."— Emma Sinclair-Webb, Turkey director at Human Rights Watch, in an interview with Axios.
The view from Ankara: Prior to 2017, the Turkish government openly welcomed Uighurs fleeing China, and many Turkish people feel a sense of solidarity with Uighurs.


But warming ties between China and Turkey have seen Ankara walk back some of its support of Uighur refugees, who now say Turkish police are interrogating them and accusing them of terrorism.
The Turkish Embassy in Washington, D.C., did not respond to a request for comment.

What to watch: Turkey and China signed a draft extradition treaty in 2017, but the Turkish Parliament has not yet ratified it.


If passed, Turkey would be obligated, with some exceptions, to abide by Chinese government extradition requests.
Go deeper: Read the documents here.

https://www.axios.com/documents-chi...key-6d5ba886-c22c-47e8-b970-804fae274e2d.html

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## Get Ya Wig Split

Sick people

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## zectech

Aspen said:


> extrajudicial



The whole "legal" system in the US is extrajudicial.

Here is one horror story out of billions of horror stories or more, going on in the US. Their "law" courts are invalid.


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## PeacefulWar

So it's just an official extradition request regards a terrorist suspect to Turkey government which was issued in 2016.
Then whatever this crappy website is, it made up a whole bullshit for this "_secret document"_ LOL

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## Indos

Even Indonesia has rejected Chinese government request to bring Uigyur prisoners to China.

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/uyghur-indonesia-04212016174321.html

Home | News | Uyghur

*Indonesia Will Not Send Four Uyghurs to China: Officials*

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## Ahmet Pasha

@beijingwalker your number is up. Do your job bot. Yen halal kro jo CPC government se milte hain. Chal bai ho ja shuru.

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## SHAH BAAZ

the Chinese should immediately stop the sinister acts against the Uyghur Muslims. 

If they dont stop than the Wrath of God is going to be upon them. And it wont be pretty.

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## Globenim

Its hillarious how everytime China does something that is not just completely uncontroversial but also regular business for their own touted "examplary freedumb" nations, some shitty yellow paper or not even that just some shitty private video channel or social media user adds a "secret", "mysterious", "leak" or "controversial" to it and suddenly its something China should be ashamed of and all the dumb China haters pretend to suddenly give a shit.

Nevermind the fact these trolls keep writing these fake letters every other day and have lost all their credibility already, so the burden is on you deal with your reputation of blatantly lying about these things with some solid evidence, not just a scan of a paper anyone can fabricate in 5 minutes.


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## KediKesenFare3

They won't sent him back.

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## Char

Indos said:


> Even Indonesia has rejected Chinese government request to bring Uigyur prisoners to China.
> 
> https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/uyghur-indonesia-04212016174321.html
> 
> Home | News | Uyghur
> 
> *Indonesia Will Not Send Four Uyghurs to China: Officials*



When you are taking side of the criminals don't cry islamophobia.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Indos said:


> Even Indonesia has rejected Chinese government request to bring Uigyur prisoners to China.
> 
> https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/uyghur-indonesia-04212016174321.html
> 
> Home | News | Uyghur
> 
> *Indonesia Will Not Send Four Uyghurs to China: Officials*



Cue the typical Chinese ingrained response
"just Fake documents and Western LIES from a world perpetually against us"






Ah the good 'ole days in school when we were taught we were always right and everybody else was always wrong.

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## fisher1

The Daily Reminder Islamic channel just uploaded this video.

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## Bismarck

Thats really disgusting!

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## Jun

Some of the western media lies and got debunked

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## Jun

The so call "Concentration camp" by the west

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## 49savage

fisher1 said:


> The Daily Reminder Islamic channel just uploaded this video.



Lol what a joke. While America us busy exterminating Afghanis, Iraqis, Libyans, Lebanese, Syrians, African Americans. Why dont you show the world who the real devils are.

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## surge

Now Chinese fellows here will post some videos of dancing, reading or working videos of girls and say look they are so happy. They will never allow international and independent media access to these areas. Indeed Muslims nowadays are selfish and spineless.

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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

Muslims don't care about uighurs. They have business interests with China and they won't compromise that

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## mourning sage

Wow. A state run media with absolute dependence on govt, and zero transparency states that the uighurs are the happiest people on earth. I'm not buying that crap. Please sell your propaganda somewhere else.

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## damm1t

Oh ok, China state TV says it's all fake and western propaganda. I am totally convinced. Who the hell am I, not to trust Chinese free media. The rest of the world is lying obviously.

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## rott

fisher1 said:


> The Daily Reminder Islamic channel just uploaded this video.


@doorstar

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## flameboard

when it comes to 


fisher1 said:


> The Daily Reminder Islamic channel just uploaded this video.


"my hands were tied to the chair. and he began taking off his trousers. I asked him , don't you have a mother, why are you doing this to me?" 

To the mods that will undoubtedly close the thread ASAP.... What will you say on the day of judgement if you quiet the voice of Muslim victims?

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## Yaseen1

u.s army was also involved in raping women in iraq and afghanistan and they touch private body parts of Muslim women in these countries by using excuse of checking explosives,this video may be false propaganda using paid actors and we cannot trust it before proper investigation

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## Mrc

fisher1 said:


> The Daily Reminder Islamic channel just uploaded this video.




honestly this video is fake as hell....

all the hall marks of made up story...

a real story has a lot of details of food bathing facilities clothes.. what happened to other survivors.. what was curriculum of re education... you know 1.5 years and all she has to say is sleeping positions... no names who were cell mates.. was any one punished...

my bet is on fake....

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## fisher1

flameboard said:


> when it comes to
> 
> "my hands were tied to the chair. and he began taking off his trousers. I asked him , don't you have a mother, why are you doing this to me?"
> 
> To the mods that will undoubtedly close the thread ASAP.... What will you say on the day of judgement if you quiet the voice of Muslim victims?



They will say

We found the Mushriks who mock God and call religion of Islam as virus more trustworthy than muslims who dedicated their lives to spreading Islam.

Just like the Kuffar and Mushrik will say we were not given signs. These Chinese loving Muslims will say we were never shown evidence of the extreme hatred of China towards Allah and Muslims.

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## flameboard

I refuse to believe that based on an adherence to Islam you can say an entire region of people is problematic. In the video above the people literally say they are not allowed to pray. Astaghfirullah

This looks very much like a page out of 1984 - George Orwell

I would instead argue that the unique culture of Muslim Uguihers contributes positively to the Chinese identity and is a great example of how Pakistanis and Chinese will interact as the Muslim and Chinese ideologies work together.

Uighers in China is how the Chinese will eventually view Pakistanis as they work closer and closer together. Do you think that will be a good thing or a bad thing?


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## Jun

damm1t said:


> Oh ok, China state TV says it's all fake and western propaganda. I am totally convinced. Who the hell am I, not to trust Chinese free media. The rest of the world is lying obviously.



lol, the rest of world, do you mean this?

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## vi-va

Find some good actress, not some cheap girl on the street. Do a better propaganda.

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## doorstar

rott said:


> @doorstar


sorry!
I've got me a gag order! not allowed to comment against /about such people. am told to report him, when I report, am told to educate him in thread but when I try to initiate a convo by asking him a question he either swears like a trooper in Pashto or ignores me completely


> Your post in the thread What China is doing to Uighurs Women (Disgusting abuse) was deleted. *Reason: *If you want him probed, report him, no need for personal attack





> Unfortunately, your recent report has been rejected: Post in thread 'Gradual Loss of Indian Held Territory in Ladakh To China is Gaining Momentum' *Reason: * Please educate him in the thread

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## rott

doorstar said:


> sorry!
> I've got me a gag order! not allowed to comment against /about such people. am told to report him, when I report, am told to educate him in thread but when I try to initiate a convo by asking him a question he either swears like a trooper in Pashto or ignores me completely


It's cool, buddy. I got the same gag order and post deleted. But I know who he is. 
Cheers!

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## Capt. Karnage

Yaseen1 said:


> u.s army was also involved in raping women in iraq and afghanistan and they touch private body parts of Muslim women in these countries by using excuse of checking explosives,this video may be false propaganda using paid actors and we cannot trust it before proper investigation



Does that justify such act by Chinese? And do you really think that a proper investigation is possible in a country like China?

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## rott

Yaseen1 said:


> u.s army was also involved in raping women in iraq and afghanistan and they touch private body parts of Muslim women in these countries by using excuse of checking explosives,this video may be false propaganda using paid actors and we cannot trust it before proper investigation


It is totally fake. Lmao... 
I don't even watch it. Actors are paid a lot of money. Geo-politics are a bigger picture than they worry about Uighurs.

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## KhanBaba2

Yaseen1 said:


> u.s army was also involved in raping women in iraq and afghanistan and they touch private body parts of Muslim women in these countries by using excuse of checking explosives,this video may be false propaganda using paid actors and we cannot trust it before proper investigation



I guess you had done a proper investigation on the US Army. And they were not paid actors.

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## Yaseen1

in Pakistan many afghans live and we have more credible information about u.s army war crimes in their country as we frequently interact with them 


KhanBaba2 said:


> I guess you had done a proper investigation on the US Army. And they were not paid actors.

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## flameboard

People looking to say the US also does bad stuff are correct but let’s now allow one evil blind us from another. I have heard stories of US soldiers raping children in Iraq and Afghanistan, and killing innocents. You just have to talk to some US army veterans. They also have places like Guantanamo, but don’t forget China and its mistreatment of Muslim women young and old. Let’s not forget the subject of discussion here

A Chinese government enforcer taking off his trousers in front of a handcuffed women is nothing to ignore

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## Yaseen1

if it is true and we can get evidence by interacting with uighurs then such acts should be condemned and we should demand china to punish culprit but at present when we have not interacted with them we cannot conclude this with certainty as recently u.s policy makers emphasized on enhancing media warfare against china,more worst is happening in iok and with Muslims of india but west is not taking any action against india which shows that they not actually care for human rights


flameboard said:


> People looking to say the US also does bad stuff are correct but let’s now allow one evil blind us from another. I have heard stories of US soldiers raping children in Iraq and Afghanistan, and killing innocents. You just have to talk to some US army veterans. They also have places like Guantanamo, but don’t forget China and its mistreatment of Muslim women young and old. Let’s not forget the subject of discussion here
> 
> A Chinese government enforcer taking off his trousers in front of a handcuffed women is nothing to ignore


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## dreamer11

That is China's internal issue but even dog killed in India they scream like they lost their family

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## Yaseen1

in china no Muslim houses are burnt like it happened in delhi few months ago and earlier in gujrat and their army personnel not use hate words against Muslims like indian major gurav arya and other leaders who frequently make hate speeches and incite public for committing violence against Muslims,there are problems in china but situation is much better than india who claim to be a democracy


dreamer11 said:


> That is China's internal issue but even dog killed in India they scream like they lost their family

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## dreamer11

Yaseen1 said:


> in china no Muslim houses are burnt like it happened in delhi few months ago and earlier in gujrat and their army personnel not use hate words against Muslims like indian major gurav arya and other leaders who frequently make hate speeches and incite public for committing violence against Muslims,there are problems in china but situation is much better than india who claim to be a democracy



THAT IS FAKE NEWS


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## Beast

surge said:


> Now Chinese fellows here will post some videos of dancing, reading or working videos of girls and say look they are so happy. They will never allow international and independent media access to these areas. Indeed Muslims nowadays are selfish and spineless.


As if those western clown media will write anything nice even China treats Uyghur well.

Remember this? I think you are quick to ignore it.






Maybe this new is claim to be make by State China and the reporter is a CPC members... 

https://blackagendareport.com/my-trip-china-exposed-shameful-lies-peddled-american-empire

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## KhanBaba2

Yaseen1 said:


> in Pakistan many afghans live and we have more credible information about u.s army war crimes in their country as we frequently interact with them



In Turkey a lot of Uighur live and they seem to have a lot of credible information about crimes committed by the Chinese.

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## Yaseen1

turkey not share border with china unlike Pakistan and afghanistan and also china and Pakistan


KhanBaba2 said:


> In Turkey a lot of Uighur live and they seem to have a lot of credible information about crimes committed by the Chinese.

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## dBSPL

Yaseen1 said:


> turkey not share border with china unlike Pakistan and afghanistan and also china and Pakistan


Turkey also not have any borderline with India. (or Israel or Myanmar or Serbia...)

But we are not blind to what happening in Jammu Kashmir, just like you.

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## Iltutmish

KhanBaba2 said:


> In Turkey a lot of Uighur live and they seem to have a lot of credible information about crimes committed by the Chinese.


I know Uighur refugees living here in Munich and what they have to say about China is just horrifying. Indian Muslims are oppressed if they don’t do the Sarkari Hindu Muslim bhai bhai Dance, but they still have most of their Identity. China demands total batsoupification from them. Unfortunately Pakistanis will cry about Palestine, Kashmir, Bosnia and so on. But Muslims oppressed in China: fake news! China Pakistan phrand! Sad!
@Rusty

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## Nasr

It's absolutely amusing to observe that Uygurs, who are Muslim and belong to the Turkic race. Are being exploited by the Zionist-American/Zionist-British, to paint China as some Nazi country. The amusing part for me is, that Uygurs being Muslim, is suppose to target China's closest ally, Pakistan. While Uygurs being of the Turkic race, is suppose to target Pakistan's fast growing close relations with Turkey. Conveniently placing Pakistan in a very precarious situation. 

It's a wonder, to discover such vile, pure evil design constructs of these ba$tard zionists. They (zionists) truly are the worst of humanity, with no soul, no morals, no consciousness other than to divide, brutally conquer, consume in a bottomless pit and to oink like a bunch of filthy swines about democracy, freedom, liberty, equal rights and other $h!t that comes outta their mouths. They talk with a silver tongue, with a halo over their horns and hide their tail, in their backside. That's what Zionists are!!!!

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## Beast

Iltutmish said:


> I know Uighur refugees living here in Munich and what they have to say about China is just horrifying. Indian Muslims are oppressed if they don’t do the Sarkari Hindu Muslim bhai bhai Dance, but they still have most of their Identity. China demands total batsoupification from them. Unfortunately Pakistanis will cry about Palestine, Kashmir, Bosnia and so on. But Muslims oppressed in China: fake news! China Pakistan phrand! Sad!
> @Rusty


LOL.. You expect economy refugee in Germany to claim China didnt ill treat then but just want to have even a better life with more state welfare from EU countries. Do you know what will happen to them the next moment? They will be deport becos they dont qualify as political oppress refugee. 

Such tactics has been used widely in other crisis and other refugee influx. You need to think deeper to understand all these kind of scheme deploy by cheaters.

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## mourning sage

viva_zhao said:


> View attachment 635335
> 
> 
> Find some good actress, not some cheap girl on the street. Do a better propaganda.


Please. Typical deflection. If your own house is corrupt, simply claim some other bigger thief, killer rapist is the actual criminal and I am just living off the scrapes. 

Islam will thrive. Muslims will survive. I may be guilty of surrendering my honor to the Chinese who control my country and every major supply line and industry, but Allah needs no loans to survive. His decision will be Absolute. Pray that you and your lot are dead when hell rains down on you for doing what you are with His people. My fellow Pakistanis are just as guilty, if not more. We will share in your Punishment. No wordly power can stop China now. you are too strong.



Beast said:


> LOL.. You expect economy refugee in Germany to claim China didnt ill treat then but just want to have even a better life with more state welfare from EU countries. Do you know what will happen to them the next moment? They will be deport becos they dont qualify as political oppress refugee.
> 
> Such tactics has been used widely in other crisis and other refugee influx. You need to think deeper to understand all these kind of scheme deploy by cheaters.


You Guys wouldnt even let independent investigation into COVID-19 debacle where evidence will be extremely hard to find. You think you are so guilt free? let independent teams come in to survey. We will see what the truth is then.

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## rott

Yaseen1 said:


> in china no Muslim houses are burnt like it happened in delhi few months ago and earlier in gujrat and their army personnel not use hate words against Muslims like indian major gurav arya and other leaders who frequently make hate speeches and incite public for committing violence against Muslims,there are problems in china but situation is much better than india who claim to be a democracy


Yep, like the Indians were cheering and celebrating when a Pakistani plane crashed. I have not heard any Chinese who did it or doing it.

@mourning sage you need to recognize who are your true enemies. Don't make us your enemy.

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## Nilgiri

rott said:


> I have not heard any Chinese who did it or doing it.



Seen plenty of Chinese right here celebrate Turkish misfortunes (civilians or military no matter). US, Japan same thing.....list is long (includes India too)

You need not paint any community in the world in some exceptional veneer. It comes off as cringey.

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## Rafi

rott said:


> Yep, like the Indians were cheering and celebrating when a Pakistani plane crashed. I have not heard any Chinese who did it or doing it.
> 
> @mourning sage you need to recognize who are your true enemies. Don't make us your enemy.



He is injun, cant you tell.

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## rott

Nilgiri said:


> Seen plenty of Chinese right here celebrate Turkish misfortunes (civilians or military no matter). US, Japan same thing.....list is long (includes India too)
> 
> You need not paint any community in the world in some exceptional veneer. It comes off as cringey.


Show me if Chinese cheered for any civilian plane crash.

While I post this. 
https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/he...o-cheered-plane-crash-in-karachi-2632227.html



Rafi said:


> He is injun, cant you tell.


Not sure, bro.


----------



## Nilgiri

rott said:


> Show me if Chinese cheered for any civilian plane crash.
> 
> While I post this.
> https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/he...o-cheered-plane-crash-in-karachi-2632227.html



Anyone can search for themselves the flamewars that happened here between Chinese and Turk members...and what Chinese posted in those years all over the place, mocking and celebrating mass turkish civilian deaths. 

Chinese members cheering on PKK terrorist activities and the whole lot. Why would I want to revisit it just for you?...just to show you that Chinese are not some moral exceptionalists to the 100%?

I should go to twitter digging for all the jeering Chinese do there?..or youtube comments on specific videos? ..when calamity befalls civilians of countries they have a gripe with?

It came to the point (just here) where chinese members were begging Russia to nuke Turkey and wipe it out off the face of the Earth completely...because Turkey deigned to shoot down a Russian jet over Syria. You telling me that involves wishing of no civilian deaths?

This is just what comes to the top of my head.

Any member can simply ask any Turkish member here that was there back then and saw it all. Want me to tag them?

Here are a few: @T-123456 @-SINAN- @cabatli_53 

Beyond that anyone can also search what your member "Feng Leng" (among others) posted (towards Pakistanis and Pakistan) in the child-bride scam threads....if they are so inclined to check it.

It would not be fit to post here again.

You see when you cannot simply make fun of your leader as "winnie the pooh"....something the rest of us in the world take for granted for our own leaders and politicians.....it creates a vast chasm in first place.

95% of your membership would be perma-banned if it was any other nationality engaging in the utter nonsense, emboldened by privilege offered them here...by no special due of their own. 

Thats the stark truth. Its also why you get owned so badly when you come to any level playing field anywhere else. Just like the boorish chinese tourists that the Louvre in paris needed to put signs up for specifically.

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## rott

Nilgiri said:


> Anyone can search for themselves the flamewars that happened here between Chinese and Turk members...and what Chinese posted in those years all over the place, mocking and celebrating mass turkish civilian deaths.
> 
> Chinese members cheering on PKK terrorist activities and the whole lot. Why would I want to revisit it just for you?...just to show you that Chinese are not some moral exceptionalists to the 100%?
> 
> I should go to twitter digging for all the jeering Chinese do there?..or youtube comments on specific videos? ..when calamity befalls civilians of countries they have a gripe with?
> 
> It came to the point (just here) where chinese members were begging Russia to nuke Turkey and wipe it out off the face of the Earth completely...because Turkey deigned to shoot down a Russian jet over Syria. You telling me that involves wishing of no civilian deaths?
> 
> This is just what comes to the top of my head.
> 
> Any member can simply ask any Turkish member here that was there back then and saw it all. Want me to tag them?
> 
> Here are a few: @T-123456 @-SINAN- @cabatli_53
> 
> Beyond that anyone can also search what your member "Feng Leng" (among others) posted (towards Pakistanis and Pakistan) in the child-bride scam threads....if they are so inclined to check it.
> 
> It would not be fit to post here again.
> 
> You see when you cannot simply make fun of your leader as "winnie the pooh"....something the rest of us in the world take for granted for our own leaders and politicians.....it creates a vast chasm in first place.
> 
> 95% of your membership would be perma-banned if it was any other nationality engaging in the utter nonsense, emboldened by privilege offered them here...by no special due of their own.
> 
> Thats the stark truth. Its also why you get owned so badly when you come to any level playing field anywhere else. Just like the boorish chinese tourists that the Louvre in paris needed to put signs up for specifically.


All I asked was a simple link as to where the Chinese cheered for a civilian air crash and you've gone on about other topics which I am not interested.
Show me like I've showed you a link. I didn't generalized all Indians, but I did mention Indians.
I do know Chinese will make fun of Military plane crashing or the rocket failing. But I've not seen any Chinese making fun of any civilian air crash.

Oh please don't give me a screenshot on Youtube or other media. Give me a link like I've given you.

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## Nilgiri

rott said:


> All I asked was a simple link as to where the Chinese cheered for a civilian air crash and you've gone on about other topics which I am not interested.
> Show me like I've showed you a link. I didn't generalized all Indians, but I did mention Indians.
> I do know Chinese will make fun of Military plane crashing or the rocket failing. But I've not seen any Chinese making fun of any civilian air crash.



Is the concept precise specific way/means of the incident or concept of celebrating massive death of civilians regardless of the incident's way/means?

Oh look no Indian troll didn't celebrate US coronavirus deaths....that must mean they are such great people compared to the Chinese trolls who did.

Great logic.



rott said:


> Oh please don't give me a screenshot on Youtube or other media. Give me a link like I've given you.



Like I said, if members are so inclined, they can simply search for it themselves in say the PKK threads.... far more civilian casualties, running into 1000s of people even and I specifically remember Chinese members like Beast and many of his crew celebrating it and cheering it on....heck some of it is probably still in his negative ratings to this day....if they have not been deleted.

So why would I go searching for anything in a specific news media of other countries for whatever calamity (say Japan, Turkey, US regarding chinese troll celebration), when its already proven right here?


----------



## rott

Nilgiri said:


> Is the concept precise specific way/means of the incident or concept of celebrating massive death of civilians regardless of the incident's way/means?
> 
> Oh look no Indian troll didn't celebrate US coronavirus deaths....that must mean they are such great people compared to the Chinese trolls who did.
> 
> Great logic.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said, if members are so inclined, they can simply search for it themselves in say the PKK threads.... far more civilian casualties, running into 1000s of people even and I specifically remember Chinese members like Beast and many of his crew celebrating it and cheering it on....heck some of it is probably still in his negative ratings to this day....if they have not been deleted.
> 
> So why would I go searching for anything in a specific news media of other countries for whatever calamity (say Japan, Turkey, US regarding chinese troll celebration), when its already proven right here?



Fine, to me, I didn't see it so I cannot believe it. I've tried on YouTube and other media. I didn't find any. I've tried looking for links too. I want to find it but I can't. I know there are Chinese who will cheer but not on a massive scale unlike what happened in the recent Pakistani air crash where it was so severe that it appeared on a news channel. Our culture has taught us how to behave, be humble, and be polite. Of course there will be some miscreants that I hope to find and probably confront them on YouTube or other media. This is my promise.

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## Hiraa

Free Muslims will be held accountable for the genocide committed againsts fellow muslims by non muslims. All of the muslims will be asked about this on day of judgement. Doesnt matter if its US, Israel or Chinese propaganda. We will be asked. 

we can defend our “favorite allies” all we want (no matter who they are whites, arabs or other ethnicity), dont forget, we will be asked.

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## fisher1

Yaseen1 said:


> u.s army was also involved in raping women in iraq and afghanistan and they touch private body parts of Muslim women in these countries by using excuse of checking explosives,this video may be false propaganda using paid actors and we cannot trust it before proper investigation



You're a funny guy. In another thread, you said you hate China for their treatment of Uighurs yet in this thread you're defending the disgusting oppression along with 50 cent army. 

Make up your mind already. You either side with the Muslims or you side with the Chinese.

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## Nilgiri

rott said:


> Fine, to me, I didn't see it so I cannot believe it. I've tried on YouTube and other media. I didn't find any. I've tried looking for links too. I want to find it but I can't. I know there are Chinese who will cheer but not on a massive scale unlike what happened in the recent Pakistani air crash where it was so severe that it appeared on a news channel. Our culture has taught us how to behave, be humble, and be polite. Of course there will be some miscreants that I hope to find and probably confront them on YouTube or other media. This is my promise.



There's literally chinese trolls here on this forum bragging and celebrating about how many people in US have died of corona.

I've seen some pretty awful things being said of Japan by Chinese trolls whenever something befalls them.

Look we can point score on who's trolls are worse, its futile thing to do....beauty and ugliness both in eyes of the beholder.

So we can leave people to make their own view on it.

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## rott

Nilgiri said:


> There's literally chinese trolls here on this forum bragging and celebrating about how many people in US have died of corona.
> 
> I've seen some pretty awful things being said of Japan by Chinese trolls whenever something befalls them.
> 
> Look we can point score on who's trolls are worse, its futile thing to do....beauty and ugliness both in eyes of the beholder.
> So we can leave people to make their own view on it.


I remember there was a member who called out an offensive term to a Pakistani member. I did tell him to not to as its offensive to them. But cheering deaths, I am yet to witness. 
Anyway, I am off. See you around, bud. Going to Zzzzzzzzz.....

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## mourning sage

rott said:


> Yep, like the Indians were cheering and celebrating when a Pakistani plane crashed. I have not heard any Chinese who did it or doing it.
> 
> @mourning sage you need to recognize who are your true enemies. Don't make us your enemy.


Indians are our enemies and will remain so. 

You misunderstand me. I am not making or taking you as my enemy. China is following a policy of colonisation far worse than the British did. By buying off every key asset like KSE and State Bank, becoming the major shareholder in every major industry, be it the energy or transportation, you have cut our legs and tied our hands and thrown us into the water. We are at your mercy. Now, you didnt do this to us forcefully. We came to you ourselves. We bent over and let you rape us.


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## Beast

rott said:


> Yep, like the Indians were cheering and celebrating when a Pakistani plane crashed. I have not heard any Chinese who did it or doing it.
> 
> @mourning sage you need to recognize who are your true enemies. Don't make us your enemy.


He might be a fake Pakistanis.



mourning sage said:


> Indians are our enemies and will remain so.
> 
> You misunderstand me. I am not making or taking you as my enemy. China is following a policy of colonisation far worse than the British did. By buying off every key asset like KSE and State Bank, becoming the major shareholder in every major industry, be it the energy or transportation, you have cut our legs and tied our hands and thrown us into the water. We are at your mercy. Now, you didnt do this to us forcefully. We came to you ourselves. We bent over and let you rape us.


The British comes with guns and cannon. We didn't. Choices are given to u all. As for independent inquiry for covod-19. Your news are outdated. China do support an inquiry for covid-19.

https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/dip...who-investigating-origin-covid-19-hits-out-us

Guess what, it's US refuse an inquiry for origin of covid-19.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny.../australia/coronavirus-china-inquiry.amp.html

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## fisher1

Beast said:


> He might be a fake Pakistanis.
> 
> 
> The British comes with guns and cannon. We didn't. Choices are given to u all. As for independent inquiry for covod-19. Your news are outdated. China do support an inquiry for covid-19.
> 
> https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/dip...who-investigating-origin-covid-19-hits-out-us
> 
> Guess what, it's US refuse an inquiry for origin of covid-19.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny.../australia/coronavirus-china-inquiry.amp.html



Yes, yes by banning publishing of research about origins of coronavirus.

Do you realise we don't live in Jinping censorship? We have access to free information. So cut the lies.


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## Beast

fisher1 said:


> Yes, yes by banning publishing of research about origins of coronavirus.
> 
> Do you realise we don't live in Jinping censorship? We have access to free information. So cut the lies.


Lol.. why US refuse to involved in WHO inquiry of origin of Covid-19. The world is sick of repeat lying by despicable people like you and Trump.

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## Char

fisher1 said:


> The Daily Reminder Islamic channel just uploaded this video.



You are stupid or paid to believe these exaggerating propaganda.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Iltutmish said:


> I know Uighur refugees living here in Munich and what they have to say about China is just horrifying. Indian Muslims are oppressed if they don’t do the Sarkari Hindu Muslim bhai bhai Dance, but they still have most of their Identity. China demands total batsoupification from them. Unfortunately Pakistanis will cry about Palestine, Kashmir, Bosnia and so on. But Muslims oppressed in China: fake news! China Pakistan phrand! Sad!
> @Rusty



I am trying to understand. What makes you so pro-Indian?


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## Iltutmish

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I am trying to understand. What makes you so pro-Indian?


Being anti-China (for good PAN-ISLAMIC reasons) makes me pro-Indian?

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Iltutmish said:


> Being anti-China (for good PAN-ISLAMIC reasons) makes me pro-Indian?



No, I have no concern with China, either pro or anti.

I asked you only of your positive opinion of India. This is not the first time I heard you say something similar.

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## mourning sage

Beast said:


> Lol.. why US refuse to involved in WHO inquiry of origin of Covid-19. The world is sick of repeat lying by despicable people like you and Trump.


WHO is compromised. WHO is the reason why this spread to the extent it has.Trump may be an idiot to suggest U.V. light source inside body cavity can kill corona but he kept pushing WHO to reexamine its decisions. WHO made all the wrong calls since covid started. Until January, they weren't even willing to accept human to human transmission. WHO and China are now effectively a coalition. Asking WHO to investigate is like asking the murderer to examine the crime scene.

Also, China vehemently opposed even a WHO inquiry until much recently. I believe now that it has covered up its tracks, killed/arrested whistle blowers like that poor doctor who begged the Chinese govt to look into the matter was jailed and later died.

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## Beast

mourning sage said:


> WHO is compromised. WHO is the reason why this spread to the extent it was. Trump may be an idiot to suggest U.V. light source inside body cavity can kill corona but he kept pushing WHO to reexamine its decisions. WHO made all the wrong calls since covid started. Until January, they weren't even willing to accept Milan to human transmission. WHO and China are now effectively a coalition. Asking WHO to investigate is like asking the murderer to examine the crime scene.
> 
> Also, China vehemently opposed even a WHO inquiry until much recently. I believe now that it has covered up its tracks, killed/arrested whistle blowers like that poor doctor who begged the Chinese govt to look into the matter was jailed and later died.


Look at your biased explanation. Go ahead and lick the American boots and trust everything American tells you. You might as well convert to Christian faith since you trust them so much.

Why the rest of the world willing to work with WHO and China for inquiry for origin of covid-19. Right, American is saint. If they say you are wrong, you must be wrong. Get a life and stop selling your soul.

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## rott

fisher1 said:


> Yes, yes by banning publishing of research about origins of coronavirus.
> 
> Do you realise we don't live in Jinping censorship? We have access to free information. So cut the lies.


If you can't be supportive, at least be neutral not be biased. Are you a bot programmed to hate anything Chinese?

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## -SINAN-

Nilgiri said:


> Anyone can search for themselves the flamewars that happened here between Chinese and Turk members...and what Chinese posted in those years all over the place, mocking and celebrating mass turkish civilian deaths.
> 
> Chinese members cheering on PKK terrorist activities and the whole lot. Why would I want to revisit it just for you?...just to show you that Chinese are not some moral exceptionalists to the 100%?
> 
> I should go to twitter digging for all the jeering Chinese do there?..or youtube comments on specific videos? ..when calamity befalls civilians of countries they have a gripe with?
> 
> It came to the point (just here) where chinese members were begging Russia to nuke Turkey and wipe it out off the face of the Earth completely...because Turkey deigned to shoot down a Russian jet over Syria. You telling me that involves wishing of no civilian deaths?
> 
> This is just what comes to the top of my head.
> 
> Any member can simply ask any Turkish member here that was there back then and saw it all. Want me to tag them?
> 
> Here are a few: @T-123456 @-SINAN- @cabatli_53
> 
> Beyond that anyone can also search what your member "Feng Leng" (among others) posted (towards Pakistanis and Pakistan) in the child-bride scam threads....if they are so inclined to check it.
> 
> It would not be fit to post here again.
> 
> You see when you cannot simply make fun of your leader as "winnie the pooh"....something the rest of us in the world take for granted for our own leaders and politicians.....it creates a vast chasm in first place.
> 
> 95% of your membership would be perma-banned if it was any other nationality engaging in the utter nonsense, emboldened by privilege offered them here...by no special due of their own.
> 
> Thats the stark truth. Its also why you get owned so badly when you come to any level playing field anywhere else. Just like the boorish chinese tourists that the Louvre in paris needed to put signs up for specifically.


Bro, thanks for tagging me but i don't discuss with Chinese. It's pointless. 

Also, there is a reason why they opened this thread in the Chinese section. Be careful.

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## rott

Beast said:


> You might as well convert to Christian faith since you trust them so much.


Hey bro, I am a Christian and I don't trust them. They (US) are no longer Christians when they bombed other countries for their own self interests.

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## vi-va

https://qr.ae/pNyJal
Why hasn't the US liberated Tibet and Xinjiang to save the people from China for the sake of humanity?
Has USA ‘saved’ enough of humanity?

Never good to try too hard. Things do go wrong.






And quite sad.





But when a nation or a generation forgets, they start again.





And there they go again.





Some Places look better before saving.





Bombs don’t save.





Innocents die as collateral.





Children suffer.





Why so busy with a thankless task of ‘saving’ the world? Liberating with boundless bombs or magnanimity? Enough yet?





2016 Polls from 60,000 correspondents?

Well, in 2019, it got worse with DPA finding 41% sees Trump as the most dangerous, ahead of ‘super villains’ such as XI, who is ‘unpopular’ at 7%.

Donald Trump is "greatest threat to world peace," ahead of Putin and Kim Jong Un, Germans say in new poll

When majority of humanity may not want it to?





Best to take a break. And do something more worth it.





Like liberating people from ignorance, discrimination, xenophobia and poverty. Like making US nice again MANA.

p/s:

*Tibet?*




*And young people in Xinjiang?*





It may be better to learn to leave people alone.

They don’t need a ‘middle east’ liberation in their part of the world.
*References:*

US has involved with China’s affairs since Tibet days, since KMT, since Opium War.

A top diplomat warns of ‘disastrous’ consequences of the US making China an enemy

Channelnewsasia/ China-xinjiang-governor-us-uighurs-bill-international-law

Scmp/ US -house-approves-tibet-bill-latest-human-rights-challenge

Explainer: U.S. legislation on Hong Kong: what does it mean?

Q/ US sanctions on China

The colors of a super power:

Greatest Threat/ Poland survey

Roger-waters-on Syria-headlines

‘We Lied, Cheated and Stole’: Pompeo Comes Clean About CIA

Bolton Fabricated Lies that Justified War on Iraq

Reuters/US-hongkong-protests-/ US Bill / legislation-explained

Quora/The passing of a Great Race

Brown- Can the USA destabilize China like how they destabilized other countries?

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## beijingwalker

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Cue the typical Chinese ingrained response
> "just Fake documents and Western LIES from a world perpetually against us"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah the good 'ole days in school when we were taught we were always right and everybody else was always wrong.


I don't know where this video is from but it's indeed hilarious, maybe it's from an isolated mountainous rural regions where people are still kind of being stuck in the past, but if it happens in urban regions people will laugh their heads off. Really hilarious but it doesn't represent anything about China just like a cult gathering won't represent US as a whole.


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## Rusty

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Cue the typical Chinese ingrained response
> "just Fake documents and Western LIES from a world perpetually against us"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah the good 'ole days in school when we were taught we were always right and everybody else was always wrong.



Indoctrination is real in China. 
they go through years (decade plus) of patriotic education where they are taught that the CCP is never wrong and love the CCP more then their own parents. 

You can see the end results on this very forum.

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## beijingwalker

Rusty said:


> Indoctrination is real in China.
> they go through years (decade plus) of patriotic education where they are taught that the CCP is never wrong and love the CCP more then their own parents.
> 
> You can see the end results on this very forum.


Actually Chinese used to be very negative about PRC and colleges in China used to be the place where people saw most China bashing barely 1 to 2 decades ago, the Chinese population were lost and blindly admired US and the west , especially among the elite class, scholars and professors, fortunately now the trend had completely changed with the fast development of China's economy. unlike the old generations, The new generation are very confident about the country, who are no longer very negative and critical about the government like their predessors were.

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## Rusty

beijingwalker said:


> Actually Chinese used to be very negative about PRC and colleges in China used to be the place where people saw most China bashing barely 1 to 2 decades ago, the Chinese population were lost and blindly admired US and the west , especially among the elite class, scholars and professors, fortunately now the trend had completely changed with the fast development of China's economy. unlike the old generations, The new generation are very confident about the country, who are no longer very negative and critical about the government like their predessors were.



And a monkey and use it's tail to grip a branch. 

^^ both above comments have nothing to do with the fact that patriotic education is taught in Chinese schools to brainwash the children into loving the CCP. 
We already saw a videos above.

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## beijingwalker

That' s exactly what my generation went through in China, we all experieced this.

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## T-123456

Why is this thread in World Affairs?
All Uyghur related threads here,

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/all-...-in-here-please.621888/page-156#post-12361906

@WebMaster @waz

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## beijingwalker

Rusty said:


> ^^ both above comments have nothing to do with the fact that patriotic education is taught in Chinese schools to brainwash the children into loving the CCP.


We love China, not CCP, did you country teach you to hate your country when you were in school? Patriotic education exist in all countries.

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## beijingwalker

T-123456 said:


> Why is this thread in World Affairs?
> All Uyghur related threads here,
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/all-...-in-here-please.621888/page-156#post-12361906
> 
> @WebMaster @waz


Why is this thread in World Affairs?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/secr...adition-request-for-uighars-in-turkey.667402/

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## Hamartia Antidote

Rusty said:


> And a monkey and use it's tail to grip a branch.
> 
> ^^ both above comments have nothing to do with the fact that patriotic education is taught in Chinese schools to brainwash the children into loving the CCP.
> We already saw a videos above.



You can see it on PDF where they speak with one voice with only minor deviations. Those who deviate too much end up like the nail sticking up on the board that is hammered down quickly. Meanwhile it is not unusual to see a heated discussion thread going on for 10 pages between a bunch of say Pakistanis. There's no "debates should not be discussed in front of foreign eyes" talk.

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## beijingwalker

Hamartia Antidote said:


> You can see it on PDF where they speak with one voice with only minor deviations. Those who deviate too much end up like the nail sticking up on the board that is hammered down quickly. Meanwhile it is not unusual to see a heated discussion thread going on for 10 pages between a bunch of say Pakistanis. There's no "debates should not be discussed in front of foreign eyes" talk.


When you keep on arguing for hundreds of pages, hundreds of projects would have been done in China with the faith of being united , we can achieve anything.


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## Hamartia Antidote

beijingwalker said:


> When you keep on arguing for hundreds of pages, hundreds of projects would have been done in China with the faith of being united , we can achieve anything.



Yeah but sometimes that minority voice is an Elon Musk who is brave enough to go against the established grain of doing the "safe" answer the majority likes. High risks can bring high rewards.

Many great inventions happen due to someone going down a path others scoffed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/05/21/spacex-boeing-rivalry-launch/
*No one thought SpaceX would beat Boeing. Elon Musk proved them wrong.*

"One was a venerable giant with a legacy in aerospace that stretched back more than 100 years and a role in every major moment in NASA’s history. The other was a relative upstart that in its early days was derided as little more than a delusional billionaire’s fantasy and that critics said was building its rockets out of wax and rubber bands."


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## fisher1

rott said:


> If you can't be supportive, at least be neutral not be biased. Are you a bot programmed to hate anything Chinese?



Would you be supportive or neutral or non-biased against Nazis if you were a Jew?

Xi Jinping is Hitler/Nazis for Muslims.

There were some Jews who supported Hitler and that's why you see some Muslims support China.



T-123456 said:


> Why is this thread in World Affairs?
> All Uyghur related threads here,
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/all-...-in-here-please.621888/page-156#post-12361906
> 
> @WebMaster @waz



It was gaining too much attention, pure and simple. 

Beijingwalkers threads about Uighur girl breathing, Uighur girl walking, Uighur girl sleeping don't get merged.

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## rott

fisher1 said:


> Would you be supportive or neutral or non-biased against Nazis if you were a Jew?
> 
> There were some Jews who supported Hitler and that's why you see some Muslims support China.


I feel sorry for your weak-mindedness. You have my sympathy. Rest In Peace.

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## fisher1

rott said:


> I feel sorry for your weak-mindedness. You have my sympathy. Rest In Peace.



I feel sorry for your lack of morals and values. You don't have my sympathy. Don't rest in peace.


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## rott

fisher1 said:


> *Don't rest in peace.*


Now who lacks morals and values? You're not very smart, are you?

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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Would you be supportive or neutral or non-biased against Nazis if you were a Jew?
> Xi Jinping is Hitler/Nazis for Muslims.
> There were some Jews who supported Hitler and that's why you see some Muslims support China.


Since when you become the spokesman for all the Muslims? You are just so hilarious.

Many Muslims love and support China, including many in Pakistan, even some Mods of PDF do, do you mean they are all like Jews supporting Hitler?

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Since when you become the spokesman for all the Muslims? You are just so hilarious.
> 
> Many Muslims love and support China, including many in Pakistan, even some Mods of PDF do, do you mean they are all like Jews supporting Hitler?



Since the day i said La Ilaha illallah muhammadur rasulullah (saww)

I know what my religion teaches and it is very clear. 

“You will not find any people who believe in Allaah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allaah and His Messenger…” [al-Mujaadilah 58:22]

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And incline not towards those who do wrong, lest the Fire should touch you…” [Hood 11:113]

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “The believers, men and women, are awliya’ (helpers, supporters, friends, protectors) of one another…” [al-Tawbah 9:71]. He also says of the kuffaar that they are “ but awliya’ (helpers, supporters, friends, protectors) to one another…” [al-Maa’idah 5:51]. And He says (interpretation of the meaning): “…And if any amongst you takes them as awliya’, then surely he is one of them.” [al-Maa’idah 5:51].

Certainly after the oppression China is doing to my Muslim brethren, no Muslim who believes in Allah will consider China a friend. 

What's ironic is that China understands this very well and is the reason why they're persecuting Uighurs because you know we Muslims really love God and only obey what God tells us not a man. It's the reason why China has no problem with atheists and Uighurs who give up Islam as you have shown in your videos as well.

China knows a Muslim don't want to be subservient to a man.


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## rott

fisher1 said:


> Since the day i said La Ilaha illallah muhammadur rasulullah (saww)
> 
> I know what my religion teaches and it is very clear.
> 
> “You will not find any people who believe in Allaah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allaah and His Messenger…” [al-Mujaadilah 58:22]
> 
> Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And incline not towards those who do wrong, lest the Fire should touch you…” [Hood 11:113]
> 
> Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “The believers, men and women, are awliya’ (helpers, supporters, friends, protectors) of one another…” [al-Tawbah 9:71]. He also says of the kuffaar that they are “ but awliya’ (helpers, supporters, friends, protectors) to one another…” [al-Maa’idah 5:51]. And He says (interpretation of the meaning): “…And if any amongst you takes them as awliya’, then surely he is one of them.” [al-Maa’idah 5:51].
> 
> Certainly after the oppression China is doing to my Muslim brethren, no Muslim who believes in Allah will consider China a friend.
> 
> What's ironic is that China understands this very well and is the reason why they're persecuting Uighurs because you know we Muslims really love God and only obey what God tells us not a man. It's the reason why China has no problem with atheists and Uighurs who give up Islam as you have shown in your videos as well.
> 
> China knows a Muslim don't want to be subservient to a man.


How about I convert to Islam, will you be happier?


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## Nilgiri

-SINAN- said:


> Bro, thanks for tagging me but i don't discuss with Chinese. It's pointless.
> 
> Also, there is a reason why they opened this thread in the Chinese section. Be careful.



It was merged with this one....originally when I posted it was separate thread somewhere else...

But point taken bro.

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## fisher1

rott said:


> How about I convert to Islam, will you be happier?



There is no compulsion in Islam.

In Islam, we seek the pleasure of Allah alone.

We don't accept Islam to seek pleasure of someone else. If we do deeds to please some man, our deeds are wasted.

If you accept Islam, it will be good for your own soul. You don't affect me in anyway.

So i don't care whether you rot in hell forever or go to heaven.

I care about the bullying you have done to me and possibly many other people who may have been severely affected. I got nerves of steel and i get angry and will rip anyone apart even if this whole forum tried to do me wrong, i am a one man army. But not everyone can stand bullies.

What would make me happy is for you to get the punishment you deserve. A ban for several months or a permanent ban so you learn the consequences for your actions and never in your life try bullying


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## Rusty

Hamartia Antidote said:


> You can see it on PDF where they speak with one voice with only minor deviations. Those who deviate too much end up like the nail sticking up on the board that is hammered down quickly. Meanwhile it is not unusual to see a heated discussion thread going on for 10 pages between a bunch of say Pakistanis. There's no "debates should not be discussed in front of foreign eyes" talk.


That is exactly it. 
A few are certainly paid, and the others are just not allowed to have a discussion about their country since China is perfect in every way. 
And if you bring up any flaws in China, well they will flood you with whataboutism 
-Yes thousands of Chinese babies died from bad milk but look at this one guy in America, look what he did!!!!



beijingwalker said:


> We love China, not CCP, did you country teach you to hate your country when you were in school? Patriotic education exist in all countries.


To Chinese people China = CCP
So you saying "we love China not CCP" means nothing. 
But it's easy enough for you prove it. 
Can you say "tiananmen square massacre was a crime done by the CCP"?
(We both know you will never say this, you will deflect, whataboutism, what ever)

As for "everyone has patriotic education"
That is demonstrably false. 
But not only that, just because "everyone does it" does not mean it is right. 

I do love that you have NEVER EVER denied being brainwashed by patriotic education. At least you have some decency in that respect.


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## fisher1

I hope the world acts before it's too late for Uighurs and other minorities. Good to see all Islamic channels have spoken up about Uighurs issue.

It's just hypocrites now who deny these atrocities.

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## GHALIB

fisher1 said:


> I hope the world acts before it's too late for Uighurs and other minorities. Good to see all Islamic channels have spoken up about Uighurs issue.
> 
> It's just hypocrites now who deny these atrocities.



very tough to know what is reality ?


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## Beast

fisher1 said:


> I hope the world acts before it's too late for Uighurs and other minorities. Good to see all Islamic channels have spoken up about Uighurs issue.
> 
> It's just hypocrites now who deny these atrocities.


Talk about hypocrisy.... OP is a big one.

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## rott

fisher1 said:


> There is no compulsion in Islam.
> 
> In Islam, we seek the pleasure of Allah alone.
> 
> We don't accept Islam to seek pleasure of someone else. If we do deeds to please some man, our deeds are wasted.
> 
> If you accept Islam, it will be good for your own soul. You don't affect me in anyway.
> 
> So i don't care whether you rot in hell forever or go to heaven.
> 
> I care about the bullying you have done to me and possibly many other people who may have been severely affected. I got nerves of steel and i get angry and will rip anyone apart even if this whole forum tried to do me wrong, i am a one man army. But not everyone can stand bullies.
> 
> What would make me happy is for you to get the punishment you deserve. A ban for several months or a permanent ban so you learn the consequences for your actions and never in your life try bullying


I think it's better we don't talk to each other anymore. It's not working out.

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## beijingwalker

Rusty said:


> That is exactly it.
> A few are certainly paid, and the others are just not allowed to have a discussion about their country since China is perfect in every way.
> And if you bring up any flaws in China, well they will flood you with whataboutism
> -Yes thousands of Chinese babies died from bad milk but look at this one guy in America, look what he did!!!!
> 
> 
> To Chinese people China = CCP
> So you saying "we love China not CCP" means nothing.
> But it's easy enough for you prove it.
> Can you say "tiananmen square massacre was a crime done by the CCP"?
> (We both know you will never say this, you will deflect, whataboutism, what ever)
> 
> As for "everyone has patriotic education"
> That is demonstrably false.
> But not only that, just because "everyone does it" does not mean it is right.
> 
> I do love that you have NEVER EVER denied being brainwashed by patriotic education. At least you have some decency in that respect.


I m not a big fan of Mao and Xi and criticized both multiple times in PDF and many Chinese PDFers saw them, as for being brainwashed, I m not as brainwashed as any religious people are, I can talk negative about some Chinese leaders or CCP, I said multiple times that I don't believe in communism and the theory of communism is BS, people are born selfish and Communism won't work with this fundimental human nature. Can you talk the same about your religion and religious figures in the history? We all know what is the ultimate brainwashing.


----------



## Rusty

beijingwalker said:


> I m not a big fan of Mao and Xi and criticized both multiple times in PDF and many Chinese PDFers saw them, as for being brainwashed, I m not as brainwashed as any religious people are, I can talk negative about some Chinese leaders or CCP, I said multiple times that I don't believe in communism and the theory of communism is BS. can you do the same to your religion and religious figures in the history? We all know what is the ultimate brainwashing.



"Can you say "tiananmen square massacre was a crime done by the CCP"?
(We both know you will never say this, you will deflect, whataboutism, what ever)"

yep, you can't say it. 
Lets just move on with our lives, as we both know you will lose your job if you so anything like that.

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## zhxy

beijingwalker said:


> I m not a big fan of Mao and Xi and criticized both multiple times in PDF and many Chinese PDFers saw them, as for being brainwashed, I m not as brainwashed as any religious people are, I can talk negative about some Chinese leaders or CCP, I said multiple times that I don't believe in communism and the theory of communism is BS, people are born selfish and Communism won't work with this fundimental human nature. Can you talk the same about your religion and religious figures in the history? We all know what is the ultimate brainwashing.



I also hated Mao before, but now I am his fan. Mao, Deng and Xi are great leaders and Mao is a leader genius

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## beijingwalker

Rusty said:


> "Can you say "tiananmen square massacre was a crime done by the CCP"?


Why I have to copy a lie made by the west, I m from Beijing and I knew exactly what happened in 1989, thank Deng to crush those traitors and American wannabes, after China crushed them, our country started to undertake an unprecedented take off in the whole human history. Russia did the opposite, the western sympathizers took the upper hand and see what a past superpower became today.



zhxy said:


> I also hated Mao before, but now I am his fan. Mao, Deng and Xi are great leaders and Mao is a leader genius


Mao made many mistakes, which I criticized, but it doesn't stop me believing him one of the greatest figure in the Chinese history.



Rusty said:


> as we both know you will lose your job if you so anything like that.


LOl, I work for myself.

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## Rusty

beijingwalker said:


> Why I have to copy a lie made by the west, I m from Beijing and I knew exactly what happened in 1989, thank Deng to crush those traitors and American wannabes, after China crushed them, our country started to undertake an unprecedented take off in the whole human history. Russia did the opposite, the western sympathizers took the upper hand and see what a past superpower became today.



You literally just made that comment and already got an thanks... can't you at least wait a few minutes before you use sock accounts to thank yourself?

Also
"We both know you will never say this, you will deflect, whataboutism, what ever"


And yep total lies 






I wonder if it is the same kind of lie that this doctor was telling

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## beijingwalker

Rusty said:


> You literally just made that comment and already got an thanks... can't you at least wait a few minutes before you use sock accounts to thank yourself?


You can ask Mod to check which IP thanked my posts. stop smearing and slandering as your last resort every time when you are running out of arguments.



Rusty said:


> And yep total lies


Chai ling is such a despicable woman, most of those who participated Tiananmen riots later regretted of being used by anti China elements, now they are in their 50's and are the most adamant age group of the Chinese population who strongly support the Chinese government.

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## Surya 1

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang provincial government issued video tribute to the ethnic Uighur, Hui, Han, Mongol fallen heros giving their lives fighting terrorists in Xinjiang.
> Today's Xinjiang is a safe, zero terrorism and prosperous region where people live in peace and prosperity, thanks for those fallen heros and Xinjiang won't forget them.



Can the news and videos oppression of Uigur be posted here only or somewhere else?

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## beijingwalker

Rusty said:


> I wonder if it is the same kind of lie that this doctor was telling


He was honored by the govenrment and his family got millions of dollars award, (11.16 million RMB, $1.65 million) better than tens of thousands of Americans who died due to Trump's incompetence and mismanagements. Trump was wrong, this virus is not just another common cold.



Surya 1 said:


> Can the news and videos oppression of Uigur be posted here only or somewhere else?


I have tons of videos and pics to debunk those lies.

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## zhxy

Strict censorship system helps prevent espionage, extremist religion, fake news with the aim of provoking violence and demonstrations.

If the Tiananmen incident did not happen, China would collapse and be divided forever and never become a superpower like it is now.

China was right to destroy Falun Gong. (there will be no Hong Xiuquan and Taiping version 2)

Finally, the doctor's case (Covid-19) did not prove that China was wrong. Their system is not perfect but it is necessary. Corona only killed a few thousand, and the traitors in Tiananmen and Falun Gong could kill hundreds of millions. In a country of 1.4 billion people, there's no way to listen and verify someone's information right away. So censorship is right. China lost a city, the whole country is safe.


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## fisher1

zhxy said:


> the traitors in Tiananmen and Falun Gong could kill hundreds of millions.



"could" kill versus CCP already having killed millions yet they're the bad guys and CCP is the good?

Go away, you stink



rott said:


> I think it's better we don't talk to each other anymore. It's not working out.


Yes, watch Xi Dadda instead 





Cringe level x999999999

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## Char

fisher1 said:


> "could" kill versus CCP already having killed millions yet they're the bad guys and CCP is the good?
> 
> Go away, you stink
> 
> 
> Yes, watch Xi Dadda instead
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cringe level x999999999



Being enemy of China, you will live in dark in your whole life time.


----------



## Tom99

Here is one smart and articulative young Uyghur girl that wants to become a Chinese ambassador when she grows up.






Good luck, little girl. You can do it!


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## beijingwalker

People in Xinjiang will be living in the most advanced country with the world top economy in the coming decade, Xinjiang develops and prospers with the rest of China.


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang college celebrate celebrates Eid 2020, college life is so nice.





*


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## fisher1

rott said:


> Don't bother with him. He's unwell.



Don't tempt me. I didn't go through with my plans because i have respect for this place and good or bad, i enjoy spending time here.



beijingwalker said:


> *Xinjiang college celebrate celebrates Eid 2020, college life is so nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Do you know that there can be no Eid without Ramadan?



Char said:


> Being enemy of China, you will live in dark in your whole life time.



I am enemy of CCP. There's a difference between China and CCP


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Do you know that there can be no Eid without Ramadan?


What do you mean, of course, it's the celebration of the end of Ramadan, isn't it?

*End of Ramadan met with muted celebrations in Xinjiang due to COVID-19




*


fisher1 said:


> I am enemy of CCP. There's a difference between China and CCP


So what are you going to do with CCP, suicide bomb them?


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> What do you mean, of course, it's the celebration of the end of Ramadan, isn't it?
> 
> *End of Ramadan met with muted celebrations in Xinjiang due to COVID-19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> So what are you going to do with CCP, suicide bomb them?




It's interesting you don't show any video where Ramadan is celebrated. Uighurs praying, fasting, reading Holy Quran. But eid? LOL. Hilariously enough, you don't show Eid Namaz either which begins Eid and without which there is no Eid.

I will do Jihad against the oppressors when Imam Mehdi - the one who will put an end to tyranny and bring justice on earth will come InshaAllah. And suicide is haram, so is bombing innocent people and properties. No, it will be a proper fight where China will know we are in a war. I suggest you read how Muslims fought in past to understand Jihad, don't look to Pakistan. Pakistan has never fought Jihad and is a bad example of Muslims. 

I suggest you don't mention suicide bombing to Muslims as it has nothing to do with religion of Islam and is highly offensive to the teachings of Islam for reasons i mentioned. Bombing innocents and suicide. One requires punishment in this world and next, and if you commit suicide, you will burn in hell.


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## rott

fisher1 said:


> *I am an enemy of CCP. There's a difference between China and CCP*


But you're fighting with a Chinese Christian.


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## fisher1

rott said:


> But you're fighting with a Chinese Christian.



If that's how you see it, it's your problem. 

All i am doing is arguing with someone else. Maybe you think it's a fight that's why you want to kill me.


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> I will do Jihad against the oppressors when Imam Mehdi - the one who will put an end to tyranny and bring justice on earth will come InshaAllah. And suicide is haram, so is bombing innocent people and properties. No, it will be a proper fight where China will know we are in a war. I suggest you read how Muslims fought in past to understand Jihad, don't look to Pakistan. Pakistan has never fought Jihad and is a bad example of Muslims.
> 
> I suggest you don't mention suicide bombing to Muslims as it has nothing to do with religion of Islam and is highly offensive to the teachings of Islam for reasons i mentioned. Bombing innocents and suicide. One requires punishment in this world and next, and if you commit suicide, you will burn in hell.



Good, so those who committed suicide bombings all aross Xinjiang a decade ago were indeed evil monsters and criminals in every culture, good to know that.


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## Indos

rott said:


> But you're fighting with a Chinese Christian.



Chinese Christian who doesnt believe Jesus as God. Better you embrace Islam bro as we also believe Jesus is a prophet.

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## rott

Indos said:


> Chinese Christian who doesnt believe Jesus as God. Better you embrace Islam bro as we also believe Jesus is a prophet.


Sorry, I will not take this topic as it's sensitive to my other true Pakistani brothers. It's better to end it here. 
@PakSword @El Sidd @Mugen @waz @Slav Defence

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## beijingwalker

They kill indiscrimately, they were monsters, China has every right to crack down on them to safeguard the lives and properties of all the people in Xinjiang.


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## rott

fisher1 said:


> If that's how you see it, it's your problem.
> 
> All i am doing is arguing with someone else. Maybe you think it's a fight that's why you want to kill me.


It's useless to talk to you anymore. YOu're too emotional and always think about death. Stop quoting me.

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## El Sidd

Indos said:


> Chinese Christian who doesnt believe Jesus as God. Better you embrace Islam bro as we also believe Jesus is a prophet.



What are the tax incentives?

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## Mugen

rott said:


> Sorry, I will not take this topic as it's sensitive to my other true Pakistani brothers. It's better to end it here.
> @PakSword @El Sidd @Mugen @waz @Slav Defence


I don't like discussing religion here either, it is a very slippery slope.

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## rott

Mugen said:


> I don't like discussing religion here either, it is a very slippery slope.


Yea me too. We think alike, bro.  
I always try to avoid it.

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## Slav Defence

*Stick to the topic*

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## rott

Slav Defence said:


> *Stick to the topic*


Yes boss!!!!


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## fisher1

rott said:


> It's useless to talk to you anymore. YOu're too emotional and always think about death. Stop quoting me.



Aren't you the scumbag who told me to commit suicide? Now you hate talking about death?

What if someone you bully ends up suiciding. You would hate him because he stinks of death?

Scumbags like you should be in prison.



beijingwalker said:


> Good, so those who committed suicide bombings all aross Xinjiang a decade ago were indeed evil monsters and criminals in every culture, good to know that.



I believe they were false flaggers CCP bots who were used to justify the treatment that was planned for Uighurs. 

India does it constantly, China is no different.


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## rott

fisher1 said:


> What if someone you bully ends up suiciding


I told you to stop quoting me. Our relationship is not healthy. I am filing for a divorce.

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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> I believe they were false flaggers CCP bots who were used to justify the treatment that was planned for Uighurs.


By blowing themselves up? You must be kidding me.


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> By blowing themselves up? You must be kidding me.



India does this constantly. They even send agents suicide bombing in Pakistan. During election times, they tried to sabotage some party

It's not unthinkable when the goals are as big as CPEC/bri and area like Xinjiang


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> I believe they were false flaggers CCP bots who were used to justify the treatment that was planned for Uighurs.
> 
> India does this constantly. They even send agents suicide bombing in Pakistan. During election times, they tried to sabotage some party
> 
> It's not unthinkable when the goals are as big as CPEC/bri and area like Xinjiang


So Chinese government made them attack Tiananmen square and stab dozens of people to death in Kunming railway station, bombed markets in Urumqi... you are just.. I m speechless..

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## rott

beijingwalker said:


> So Chinese government made them attack Tiananmen square and stab dozens of people to death in Chengdu railway station, bombed markets in Urumqi... you are just.. I m speechless..


You should see our conversation. He took it to another level. I even got scared and at the same time worried about him.


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## fisher1

More than 1 million Uighurs have disappeared into China's internment camps in Xinjiang province. A DW investigation reveals how many of them were tried for their alleged "crimes" in sham trials.
In the Chinese government's vast network of re-education camps in Xinjiang province, the daily horror of internment was infused with monotony and boredom. Detainees were forced to endure countless hours of indoctrination and language classes, perched on small stools. In some facilities, they had to watch TV propaganda broadcasts praising President Xi Jinping for hours on end.

The slightest infraction, such as a whispered conversation, was met with swift and harsh punishment.

But among the many months spent locked up, some former detainees report that one day was different: The day when they were forced to pick one or several infractions from a list they were handed. In essence, the detainees had to retroactively choose the crimes for which they had been imprisoned, often for months, in most cases without being told why they had been detained in the first place.

After picking a crime from the list came a sham trial, in which the detainees had no legal representation and were convicted without evidence or due process of any kind.

DW spoke to four former detainees, two men and two women from Xinjiang, a remote region in northwestern China whose mostly Muslim population has long faced repression by the Chinese authorities — including, in recent years, lengthy internment in re-education camps.

All four detainees spent months imprisoned in Xinjiang in 2017 and 2018. The interviews were conducted independently of each other, over the course of several weeks.

Detainees forced to pick crimes from a list

All four recalled the day they were handed a piece of paper detailing more than 70 acts and forced to choose one or several of them. Some of the acts were seemingly innocuous, such as traveling or contacting people abroad. But most of them were religious acts, such as praying or wearing a headscarf.

Since then, all four former detainees have moved to neighboring Kazakhstan, following public pressure from family members living there and, most likely, behind-the-scenes diplomatic efforts by the Kazakh government. As a result, the Chinese government has released those with Kazakh residency permits, passports and family members living in Kazakhstan, which is home to a sizable Uighur community.

For those without outside links and citizenship, however, it is virtually impossible to escape China's vast network of repression and constant surveillance.







While DW is unable to independently verify the four detainees' stories, their accounts corroborate each other in key aspects. 

One prisoner was in a hospital wing inside a camp, suffering from tuberculosis he had contracted during his stay, when he was given the list. The man speaks and reads little Chinese, so fellow inmates had to translate for him into the Uighur language.

Another was handed the paper by a teacher through the bars in the camp's classroom that separated the teaching staff from the students guarded by armed officers sporting stun guns. 

"They threatened us: 'if you don't pick anything, that means you did not confess your crime. If you don't confess, you will stay here forever.' That's why we picked one crime," one female detainee who was imprisoned in March 2018 told DW.

One of the female detainees told DW of the horror she felt when she was handed the list and was forced to pick a crime and sign the list. She could not sleep for days, she says — afraid she would never be able to return home.

Another said it almost came as a relief: "To be honest, we were happy — at least we now knew the time period we would spend in the camp. Before that, no one told us how long we had to stay." Detainees were also told that if they cooperated, the number of years they would be forced to spend in the camp might be reduced.

https://amp.dw.com/en/chinas-uighur...ng-camps/a-53699982?__twitter_impression=true

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## fisher1

https://tvdownloaddw-a.akamaihd.net/dwtv_video/flv/je/je20200217_qdocument_sd_avc.mp4

Cue the wumao screaming western propaganda


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## kankan326

It's weird every detail in the Xingjiang camps is known by west world yet until 1945 people outside Germany terrritory didn't even know the Jew concentration camps existed.

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## Beast

fisher1 said:


> https://tvdownloaddw-a.akamaihd.net/dwtv_video/flv/je/je20200217_qdocument_sd_avc.mp4
> 
> Cue the wumao screaming western propaganda


LOL.. DW.

Thanks for telling you are the wumao.

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## Raghav_101

kankan326 said:


> It's weird every detail in the Xingjiang camps is known by west world yet until 1945 people outside Germany terrritory didn't even know the Jew concentration camps existed.


The satellite imagery and electronic devices must have been shit back then. 


Oh wait...

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## CAPRICORN-88

fisher1 said:


> More than 1 million Uighurs have disappeared into China's internment camps in Xinjiang province. A DW investigation reveals how
> Another said it almost came as a relief: "To be honest, we -uighurs-convicted-in-sham-trials-at-xinjiang-camps/a-53699982?__twitter_impression=true



*Stories like these are fabricated and designed for targeted groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc by CIA so that they will committed terrorism in other nation and this this case China. *
I seriously doubt the other religions give a damn about the Islam.

In their opinion if a Muslim do not threatened to harm an infidel, they will fight among themselves.

Look at all the conflicts around the world today especially in the Middle East.

Imagine USA is protecting Islam not Saudi Arabia. The logic fails me except for this one.
Politics.

Anyone Muslims who are so concerned about fellow Muslim should just make a trip to Xinjiang. They may be surprised to discovered the Uighurs in Xinjiang live a better life than many of them today.

So why don't you people stop trolling and let China deal with their own internal problem.
As I see it. It is working. No more terrorist attacks were heard of recently. Peace has returned. Is that wrong?

Then why is Israel or USA shooting rubber bullets and teargas at the peaceful pro-democracy protesters?

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## striver44

Other than some Muslims in their bff country, I don't know which Muslims buy CGTN propaganda. Here in Indonesia, most Muslims despise China for what they did with the uyghur.

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## Whirling_dervesh

So many of these articles...i have yet to see any real hard evidence

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## vi-va

@waz, please take care endless spammer. Thanks a lot.

Either merge or whatever. 

@fisher1, don't work too hard, especially under Covid-19 pandemic. Have a life.

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## rott

I don't know why Chinese members even reply to his thread. You're all just helping him.

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## fisher1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Stories like these are fabricated and designed for targeted groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc by CIA so that they will committed terrorism in other nation and this this case China. *
> I seriously doubt the other religions give a damn about the Islam.
> 
> In their opinion if a Muslim do not threatened to harm an infidel, they will fight among themselves.
> 
> Look at all the conflicts around the world today especially in the Middle East.
> 
> Imagine USA is protecting Islam not Saudi Arabia. The logic fails me except for this one.
> Politics.
> 
> Anyone Muslims who are so concerned about fellow Muslim should just make a trip to Xinjiang. They may be surprised to discovered the Uighurs in Xinjiang live a better life than many of them today.
> 
> So why don't you people stop trolling and let China deal with their own internal problem.
> As I see it. It is working. No more terrorist attacks were heard of recently. Peace has returned. Is that wrong?
> 
> Then why is Israel or USA shooting rubber bullets and teargas at the peaceful pro-democracy protesters?



China did those false-flag operations to justify the ethnic cleansing of Muslims. 

Just like India did it to Kashmiris to justify the lockdown.

Ain't noone getting fooled with that shit, bruh. This will work on a wumao living in censorship all his life but not on free human beings.



Beast said:


> LOL.. DW.
> 
> Thanks for telling you are the wumao.



Wumao is something Chinese are proud of and do willingly. Are you making fun of your own countrymen and China?

Oops, hope Winnie the Pooh doesn't get to know about it.


----------



## Jun

striver44 said:


> Other than some Muslims in their bff country, I don't know which Muslims buy CGTN propaganda. Here in Indonesia, most Muslims despise China for what they did with the uyghur.




The Country Report on Human Rights Practices for 2019-China made by the U.S. mentioned the "Xinjiang crackdown on Islam and religious belief," and specifically claimed that Abdughappar Abdurusul, a Uygur businessman, was sentenced to death for an unapproved pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia. But the fact he is well alive.





How CNN make fake news about xinjiang

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## striver44

Jun said:


> The Country Report on Human Rights Practices for 2019-China made by the U.S. mentioned the "Xinjiang crackdown on Islam and religious belief," and specifically claimed that Abdughappar Abdurusul, a Uygur businessman, was sentenced to death for an unapproved pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia. But the fact he is well alive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How CNN make fake news about xinjiang
















No matter how hard you try we know who you are,what you did. China is despised by Muslim majority country and that's a *FACT*

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## Beast

fisher1 said:


> Wumao is something Chinese are proud of and do willingly. Are you making fun of your own countrymen and China?
> 
> Oops, hope Winnie the Pooh doesn't get to know about it.



Wumao is just Chinese for 50cent. It can used on anybody , not necessary for Chinese only.Especially those on payroll to spread fake news. Maybe you want to claim , you know Chinese better than me? I know u are a rat multi account, ban repeatly under different names. Just come here to clock your workload to received paid from Pompeo, oh.... The one who cheat, steal and lie abt Chinese uyghur. 



striver44 said:


> No matter how hard you try we know who you are,what you did. China is despised by Muslim majority country and that's a *FACT*


Fact? By who? The one who worshipped white supremacy killing black minority and the one who start war killing Muslim Arabs or corrupt the Muslim world. I remember u even once say u are sunni Muslim? How irony.

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## fisher1

Beast said:


> Wumao is just Chinese for 50cent. It can used on anybody , not necessary for Chinese only.Especially those on payroll to spread fake news. Maybe you want to claim , you know Chinese better than me? I know u are a rat multi account, ban repeatly under different names. Just come here to clock your workload to received paid from Pompeo, oh.... The one who cheat, steal and lie abt Chinese uyghur.
> 
> 
> 
> Fact? By who? The one who worshipped white supremacy killing black minority and the one who start war killing Muslim Arabs or corrupt the Muslim world. I remember u even once say u are sunni Muslim? How irony.



https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/06/17/how-to-spot-a-state-funded-chinese-internet-troll/

I am flattered but really i am a nobody cockroach in Pakistan, KPK. The mods have attested to that countless times.


----------



## striver44

Beast said:


> Fact? By who?


By me, an Indonesian who actually live in Indonesia , the news of what happened with uyghurs by the godless commie spread like bushfires here.

Don't get me wrong , what India did with Muslims are also hot topic here. But not as much attention given compared to china's incarceration of uyghurs.
Most Indonesian grow up knowing that *China is commie and commie are bad, so China=bad. *


----------



## Char

striver44 said:


> Other than some Muslims in their bff country, I don't know which Muslims buy CGTN propaganda. Here in Indonesia, most Muslims despise China for what they did with the uyghur.



Most Muslims are not buying west propagandas, the west are very curious even angry that why Muslims are not fighting against China after they made so many fake news. The answer is very simple most Muslims are not stupid as the west wish.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Stories like these are fabricated and designed for targeted groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc by CIA so that they will committed terrorism in other nation and this this case China. *
> I seriously doubt the other religions give a damn about the Islam.
> 
> In their opinion if a Muslim do not threatened to harm an infidel, they will fight among themselves.
> 
> Look at all the conflicts around the world today especially in the Middle East.
> 
> Imagine USA is protecting Islam not Saudi Arabia. The logic fails me except for this one.
> Politics.
> 
> Anyone Muslims who are so concerned about fellow Muslim should just make a trip to Xinjiang. They may be surprised to discovered the Uighurs in Xinjiang live a better life than many of them today.
> 
> So why don't you people stop trolling and let China deal with their own internal problem.
> As I see it. It is working. No more terrorist attacks were heard of recently. Peace has returned. Is that wrong?
> 
> Then why is Israel or USA shooting rubber bullets and teargas at the peaceful pro-democracy protesters?



Both east Asia and Muslim countries were victim of the west after industrial revolution, the difference is the Muslim countries are still victim of the west. From westernized to extremely conservative Muslim countries have tried many ways but still a long way to get modernized.

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## CriticalThinker02

striver44 said:


> Other than some Muslims in their bff country, I don't know which Muslims buy CGTN propaganda. Here in Indonesia, most Muslims despise China for what they did with the uyghur.



Do you despise India for what they have done to the Kashmiri and Indian Muslims?







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1245942118339706880


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## striver44

Waqas said:


> Do you despise India for what they have done to the Kashmiri and Indian Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1245942118339706880


Yes I despise India for what they did with Indian Muslims especially the modi radicals,and I have mentioned those before.
But China is on another different level.

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## surya kiran

The World Uyghur Congress (Uyghur: دۇنيا ئۇيغۇر قۇرۇلتىيى‎, ULY: Dunya Uyghur Qurultiyi, USY: Дунйа Уйғур Қурултийи; Chinese: 世界维吾尔代表大会; pinyin: Shìjiè Wéiwú'ěr Dàibiǎo Dàhuì; abbreviated WUC) is an international organisation of exiled Uyghur groups that aspires to "represent the collective interest of the Uyghur people" both inside and outside of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (also called East Turkestan) of the People's Republic of China.

The World Uyghur Congress describes itself as a nonviolent and peaceful movement that opposes what it considers to be the Chinese occupation of East Turkestan and advocates rejection of totalitarianism, religious intolerance and terrorism as an instrument of policy.


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## Independent87548

Stop posting this CIA propaganda. Why are there so many CIA bots on this forum? Mods? Where are you???

edit: posted again due to forum formatting glitch
*Inside the World Uyghur Congress: The US-backed right-wing regime change network seeking the ‘fall of China’*

*While posing as a grassroots human rights organization, the World Uyghur Congress is a US-funded and directed separatist network that has forged alliances with far-right ethno-nationalist groups. The goal spelled out by its founders is clear: the destabilization of China and regime change in Beijing.*
*By Ajit Singh*


In recent years, few stories have generated as much outrage in the West as the condition of Uyghur Muslims in China. Reporting on the issue is typically represented through seemingly spontaneous leaks of information and expressions of resistance by Uyghur human rights activists struggling to be heard against a tyrannical Chinese government.

True or not, nearly everything that appears in Western media accounts of China’s Uyghur Muslims is the product of a carefully conceived media campaign generated by an apparatus of right-wing, anti-communist Uyghur separatists funded and trained by the US government.

A central gear in Washington’s new Cold War against China, this network has a long history of relationships with the US national security state and far-right ultra-nationalists.

At the heart of this movement is the World Uyghur Congress (WUC), an international Uyghur organization that claims to be engaged in a “peaceful, nonviolent, and democratic” struggle for “human rights.” The WUC considers China’s northwestern Xinjiang region to be East Turkestan, and sees its Uyghur Muslim inhabitants not as Chinese citizens but instead as members of a pan-Turkic nation stretching from Central Asia to Turkey.

As this investigation establishes, the WUC is not a grassroots movement, but a US government-backed umbrella for several Washington-based outfits that also rely heavily on US funding and direction. Today, it is the main face and voice of a separatist operation dedicated to destabilizing the Xinjiang region of China and ultimately toppling the Chinese government.

While seeking to orchestrate a color revolution with the aim of regime change in Beijing, the WUC and its offshoots have forged ties with the Grey Wolves, a far-right Turkish organization that has been actively engaged in sectarian violence from Syria to East Asia.

None of these links seem to have troubled the WUC’s sponsors in Washington. If anything, they have added to the network’s appeal, consolidating it as one of the most potent political weapons the US wields in its new Cold War against China.

*The World Uyghur Congress, brought to you by the US government’s regime change arm*
The WUC promotes itself as an “opposition movement against Chinese occupation of East Turkistan” that “represent the collective interests” and is “the sole legitimate organization of the Uyghur people both in East Turkistan and abroad.”

Headquartered in Munich, Germany, the WUC is an international umbrella organization with a network of 33 affiliates in 18 countries around the world. The WUC and its affiliates — particularly the Uyghur American Association, Uyghur Human Rights Project, and Campaign for Uyghurs — are cited in nearly every Western media report on China’s Uyghur Muslims.

From its inception, the WUC has been backed by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). With millions in US taxpayer money, the NED and its subsidiaries have backed opposition parties, “civil society” groups, and media organizations in countries targeted by the US for regime change.

Philip Agee, the late CIA whistleblower, described the work of the NED as a more sophisticated version of the old-fashioned covert operations that Langley used to engineer. “Nowadays,” Agee explained, “instead of having the CIA going around behind the scenes and trying to manipulate the process by inserting money here and giving instructions secretly and so forth, they have now a sidekick, which is this National Endowment for Democracy, NED.”

Agee’s assessment was confirmed by Allen Weinstein, a former Trotskyist and founding member of the NED. Weinstein told the Washington Post in 1991, “A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA.”

When the WUC was founded in 2004, the NED’s then-senior Asia program officer, Louisa Coan Greve, praised the move as a “great accomplishment.”

The NED has provided the WUC with millions of dollars in funding, including $1,284,000 since 2016 alone, and millions of dollars in additional funding to WUC-affiliate organizations. The grants are earmarked for training Uyghur activists and youth in media advocacy and lobbying “to raise awareness of and support for Uyghur human rights,” with a particular focus on US Congress, European Parliament, and the United Nations.

In 2018, the NED provided the WUC and its offshoots with close to $665,000, according to the former organization’s website.







The NED has played a direct role in molding the direction and politics of the WUC. Besides honeycombing WUC-affiliated organizations with NED operatives like Coan Greve, the NED has sponsored and organized annual “Leadership Training Seminars” for the WUC since 2007.


Many leading members of the WUC have also worked in senior positions for Radio Free Asia (RFA) and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL). These US government-run news agencies were created by the CIA during the Cold War to project propaganda into China and the Soviet Union, and to stir up opposition to communism on these countries’ frontiers.

Unsurprisingly, the WUC is tightly aligned with Washington’s foreign policy agenda and hostile new Cold War strategy which seeks to contain and impede the rise of China. The WUC regularly meets with and lobbies US and Western politicians, urging them to isolate and “increase the pressure on China”; ratchet up economic sanctions; curb ties with China, and withdraw Western companies from the region.

The WUC celebrated the passage of The Uighur Act of 2019 by the US House of Representatives, in December 2019. The bill, which called on the Trump administration to enact sanctions against the Chinese government, was the latest in a string of anti-China achievements.

This regime change apparatus has made its strongest impact through the media, providing a constant source of self-styled Uyghur dissidents and human rights horror stories to eager Western reporters. The exposure the WUC and its affiliates receive extends well beyond corporate media outlets known for echoing Washington’s foreign policy talking points; even ostensibly adversarial, progressive, and left-wing media such as The Intercept, Democracy Now! and Jacobin Magazine have provided them with an uncritical platform.

While adopting the WUC’s narrative, these self-styled alternative outlets never seem to mention the close bonds the organization and its offshoots have forged with the US national security state and right-wing ethno-nationalist movements abroad. But the relationships are no secret. In fact, they appear to be a source of pride for WUC leadership.

*The Far-Right Roots of the Uyghur “Human Rights” Movement*
Behind its carefully constructed human rights brand, the Uyghur separatist movement emerged from elements in Xinjiang which view socialism as “the enemy of Islam,” and which sought Washington’s support from the outset, presenting themselves as eager foot-soldiers for US hegemony.

The founding father of this separatist movement was Isa Yusuf Alptekin. His son, Erkin Alptekin, founded the WUC and served as the organization’s inaugural president. The senior Alptekin is referred to as “our late leader” by the WUC and current President Dolkun Isa.

Born at the turn of the 20th century, Alptekin was the son of a local government Xinjiang official. He received a largely Islamic education as a youth, as his family intended for him to be a religious scholar.

During the Chinese Civil War that raged between the nationalists and communists from 1945 to ’49, Alptekin served under the nationalist Kuomintang (KMT) administration in Xinjiang. Throughout this period, the KMT received massive military and economic backing from the United States — including billions of dollars in cash and military hardware, along with the deployment of tens of thousands of US marines — in an effort to quash the Chinese revolution.

At the same time, according to historian Linda Benson, Alptekin “became more active in both the Guomindang and national level politics … and met several times with KMT leader, Chiang Kai-shek personally.” For Alptekin and fellow travelers advancing Turkic nationalism and the region’s eventual independence, “equally important was the necessity of protecting the land they called East Turkestan from Soviet and Chinese communism, both of which were viewed as real and present dangers to Islamic peoples.”

For the KMT, Uyghur activists like Alptekin made prime candidates for Xinjiang’s provincial administration. As Benson explained, “the essential qualification for such appointees… was that they be anti-Communist and anti-Soviet.” In his memoirs, Alptekin revealed that he “sought to eliminate all Russians and leftists in the government,” and said that “schools were also encouraged to include religious instruction in their curriculum.”

A fervent opponent of miscegenation, Alptekin worked to prevent intermarriage between Han Chinese and Uyghur Muslims. During his time in government, religious fundamentalists “attacked the houses of Han Chinese who were married to Moslem women …]The mob abducted the Moslem wives, and in some cases the unfortunate women were forced to marry old Moslem men.” Though the violence killed numerous Han Chinese, it proceeded without any government response during Alptekin’s tenure.

As the civil war wore on, Alptekin grew frustrated with the declining power of the nationalists and met with US and British Consuls in Xinjiang, beseeching the twin powers to deepen their intervention in China and the region. With the coming victory of the Chinese Revolution, Alptekin went into exile in 1949.

Alptekin eventually settled in Turkey, emerging as the pre-eminent leader of the Uyghur separatist movement throughout the latter half of the 20th century. He set out to enlist international support for the cause of East Turkestan independence, courting leading US officials and far-right, neo-Ottomanist ideologues in Turkey.





Alptekin, holding a book, leads a demonstration in support of East Turkestan separatism in 1966. Alptekin stands in front of a banner that reads, “Communism is the enemy of Islam.”
The Uyghur separatist leader wrote to then-US President Richard Nixon on several occasions, pleading for him to support East Turkestan separatism. In a 1969 missive to the president, Alptekin declared full-throated support for the US war on Vietnam: “We are hopeful and pleased that the US, as a fortress of liberty, is protecting captive nations,” he stated. Altepkin then pleaded for his “Excellency” Nixon and the US, “the most imminent protector of captive nations”, to support East Turkestan independence.

Alptekin wrote Nixon the following year to warn of the evils of “Red China.” He branded the country “a great menace which the whole world as led by the United States of America is confronting. This menace is now in the process of evolution to engulf the earth. If time is allowed it can upset the balance of the world to disadvantage the free nations.”

“The whole world has reason to be apprehensive of Red China,” Alptekin insisted to Nixon, “for it is likely to be an irresistible threat on earth… China today is one of the biggest nations in the world where the Marxist teach has been implemented… China may prove to be a greater menace to all the world, and this menace is likely to cause a total destruction to the free nations if they are not prudent and fore-sighted.”

Alptekin advised Nixon to combat the “Chinese war of world conquest” by supporting separatist movements, namely that of East Turkestan nationalists, and by “speeding up the process of the dismemberment of the Chinese empire.”

Mapping out a detailed regime change strategy for Washington, Alptekin urged the US to generate support for his cause among the “free world,” set up an academic institute to study “every aspect” of minority nationalities living within China, develop media propaganda targeting minority nationalities by operating “a radio network beaming at these peoples in their respective languages”; “devise a plan to secure the collaboration” of minority nationalities and “train the children of the non-Chinese exiles abroad.”

In 1970, Alptekin travelled to Washington to meet with members of US Congress and address the House of Representatives.





Alptekin and fellow East Turkestan separatists met with members of US Congress on a trip to Washington in 1970.
*Forging bonds with fascistic, ethno-supremacist Turkish nationalists*
While appealing for Washington’s support, Alptekin developed strong ties with the Turkish far-right. Their bonds rested on a solid foundation of anti-communist zeal and pan-Turkic, neo-Ottomanist nationalism.

On numerous occasions, Alptekin met with Alparslan Türkeş a fascistic, ultra-nationalist who believed ardently in Turkish ethnic superiority over minorities like Kurds and Armenians, and for whom the eradication of communism among the Turkic populations of Soviet Central Asia and Xinjiang was “the dream he had most cherished”.





Alparslan Türkeş and Isa Yusuf Alptekin
Türkeş was long-time leader of the far-right Nationalist Action Party (MHP) and its paramilitary arm, the Grey Wolves. According to the Washington Post, he headed a murderous group of “right-wing terrorists” who are “blindly nationalist, fascist or nearly so, and bent on the extermination of the Communists.” The fascistic militant group killed numerous left-wing activists, students, Kurds, and notoriously attempted to assassinate Pope John Paul II.

With military training from the US, Türkeş co-founded the Turkish cell of Operation Gladio, the US and NATO-backed network of “stay behind” anti-communist paramilitary groups that carried out numerous acts of terror and sabotage across Europe.

Alptekin appears to have shared the hateful politics of Türkeş and the Turkish far-right, often expressing anti-Armenian views including denial of the Armenian genocide and claims that Armenians were murderers of innocent Turks.

The Turkish right-wing has embraced the East Turkestan separatist movement with open arms, appealing to them as a key base of political support. “The martyrs of East Turkestan are our martyrs,” stated Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, then mayor of Istanbul, as he inaugurated a park named in honor of Alptekin, following the death of the Uyghur nationalist in 1995.

In recent decades, the Uyghur separatist movement has deepened its connections with Washington and the US national security state. The WUC and its affiliate organizations — including the Uyghur American Association, Uyghur Human Rights Project, and Campaign for Uyghurs — are made up of individuals with direct ties to the US government, military, and regime change establishment.

Inspired by pro-free market color revolutions spawned by the US government in the former Soviet republics of Central Asia, the WUC’s regime change network has set out a clear goal of destabilizing China and toppling its government.

*With vow to destroy China, WUC leaders earn Western adulation and support*
In 2004, Erkin Alptekin was named the inaugural president of the WUC. He is the son of the far-right, ultra-nationalist father figure of the Uyghur separatist movement, Isa Yusuf Alptekin, whose background is explored later in this article. From 1971 to 1995, Erkin Alptekin worked for the US government-funded RFE/RL media network.

Speaking at the funeral of his father, in 1995, the junior Alptekin outlined his anti-communist, separatist views and articulated his desire to destroy China: “Ten years ago no one believed that the USSR would fall apart now you can see that. Many Turkic countries have their freedom now. Today the same situation applies to China. We believed in the not too distant future we will see the fall of China and the independence of East Turkestan.”





Erkin Alptekin calling for the “fall of China” at his father’s funeral. From the WUC film, “Uyghur Leaders in Exile.”
The WUC describes Alptekin as “close friend” of the Dalai Lama, the U.S-backed, CIA-funded figurehead for Tibetan separatism. “We are working very closely with the Dalai Lama,” Alptekin told The Washington Post in 1999. “He is a very good example for us.”

In 2006, Erkin Alptekin was succeeded as WUC President by Rebiya Kadeer, a self-described multi-millionaire real estate and trading entrepreneur who profited off of China’s economic reforms of the 1980s and claims to have once been the seventh wealthiest individual in the country. According to The New York Times, Kadeer’s “dissidence brought the end of her Audi, her three villas and her far-flung business empire”. Kadeer’s husband, SIdik Rouzi, worked for US government media outlets Voice of America and Radio Free Asia.

During her tenure as WUC President, Kadeer met with then-US President George W. Bush on several occasions. As Bush waged his illegal war on Iraq and persecuted Muslim American leadership under the auspices of his so-called “war on terror,” Kadeer appealed to the US head of state to take up the cause of Uyghur Muslims. “I was deeply honored to meet with the President,” Kadeer stated. She “expressed gratitude for President Bush’s demonstrated commitment to promoting freedom and democratic reform in the PRC.”






At the 2007 Democracy & Security International Conference in Prague, Bush praised Kadeer as a human rights defender in his address before the gathering. The conference was organized by the Prague Security Studies Institute, a think tank that aims to advance free-market societies in post-communist states, and the Adelson Institute for Strategic Studies, an Israeli outfit named for ultra-Zionist Republican casino baron Sheldon Adelson. Conference partners included the US government and NATO.

Kadeer kept close relationships with the Dalai Lama and Vaclav Havel, the leader of the ‘Velvet Revolution’ which brought down Czechoslovakia’s communist government. Havel was a “major proponent of NATO” and instrumental to the Western military alliance’s eastward expansion. Kadeer described Havel as “an uncompromising advocate for truth, justice and peace” and pointed to his political accomplishments as an example to be emulated for China. “Mr. Havel’s vision for the Czech people …speaks to Chinese democrats today”, wrote Kadeer, following Havel’s death, and “contains … the seeds of a new era for political reform in China.”





Rebiya Kadeer pictured with Frederik Willem De Klerk, Vaclav Havel and the Dalai Lama.
The current President of WUC is Dolkun Isa, winner of the 2019 Democracy Award from the NED. In 2016, Isa received a human rights award from the far-right Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which was established by the US government in 1993. In his acceptance speech, Isa emphasized “the Uyghurs’ resistance to communism” and that “we will not stop our work until we consign this destructive ideology, in the words of Ronald Reagan, to ‘the ash heap of history.’”

Isa regularly lobbies US and Western politicians to intensify their new Cold War agenda by enacting economic sanctions and curbing ties with China. Among those he has met with in recent years are Trump administration White House officials, right-wing Republican Senator Ted Cruz, the US Consul General in Munich, and the fervently anti-China acting Director of National Intelligence, Richard Grenell.

In November 2019, Isa attended the Halifax International Security Forum, a gathering convened by NATO and the Canadian Department of National Defence. There, he met with leading Western political and military figures.

In January 2020, Isa was hosted at an event organized by the Board of Deputies of British Jews, a right-wing British Israeli lobby group. At the event, Isa met with with the ultra-Zionist organization Bnei Akiva, whose leader called for the Israeli Army “to take the foreskins of 300 Palestinians” amid Israel’s punishing 2014 assault on the besieged Gaza Strip.

Omer Kanat serves as the WUC’s Chairman of the Executive Committee. Kanat helped found the WUC and has been a permanent fixture in its executive leadership. The veteran operative has a lengthy history of work with the US government, from serving as senior editor of Radio Free Asia’s Uyghur Service from 1999 to 2009 to covering the US wars on Iraq and Afghanistan and interviewing the Dalai Lama for the network.

In an interview with The Grayzone editor Max Blumenthal at a 2018 NED awards ceremony in the US Capitol building, Kanat took credit for furnishing many of the claims about internment camps in Xinjiang to Western media. He conceded, however, that the WUC did not know how the oft-repeated “millions detained” claim was arrived at aside from “Western media estimates.”

*Preparing for a color revolution, WUC offshoots staff up with national security state operatives*
Established in 1998, the Uyghur American Association (UAA) is a Washington D.C.-based affiliate of the WUC. A long time grantee of the NED, the UAA has received millions of dollars in funding. According to its publicly available tax filings, the group works closely with the US government, particularly the US State Department, Congressional-Executive Commission on China (CECC), and US Congress’s Human Rights Commission.

“The National Endowment for Democracy has been exceptionally supportive of UAA,” stated Nury Turkel, former UAA President, “providing us with invaluable guidance and assistance” along with “essential funding.”

Turkel credited the NED with enabling the UAA increase its credibility and expand its influence. Among the top achievements he cited was a meeting with the new Krygyzstan government “within weeks of the former government’s fall from power” following the US-engineered Tulip “color revolution” which brought a pro-Western regime to power.

Speaking at the 5th Congress of the UAA, in 2006, Turkel confirmed the regime change agenda of the UAA, UHRP and broader Uyghur separatist movement, stating that “as we witnessed the ‘Tulip Revolution’ and the toppling the former government of Kyrgyzstan, our hopes were again reinforced.”

The UAA’s leadership consists of US national security state operators including employees of the US government, Radio Free Asia, and military-industrial complex.

Kuzzat Altay, the nephew of Reibya Kadeer, is the current president of the UAA. Altay is also the founder of the Uyghur Entrepreneurs Network, which claims to offer Uyghur Americans with guidance to “start their own business”.

In 2019, his business network has organized an event in collaboration with the FBI, the federal law enforcement agency notorious for its surveillance of Muslim Americans and ensnaring countless mentally troubled young Muslim American men in manufactured terror plots. 






Past presidents of UAA include Kadeer; Alim Seytoff, a former Radio Free Asia correspondent and current Director of RFA’s Uyghur Service; and Ilshat Hassan Kokbore, who has worked at Booz Allen Hamilton since 2008.

Booz Allen is a notorious private US military and intelligence contractor that rakes in billions of dollars in contracts with American intelligence agencies. Edward Snowden was employed at the firm when he decided to blow the whistle on the National Security Agency’s invasive, all-encompassing system of mass surveillance.

The main project spun out of the UAA and the NED is the Uyghur Human Rights Project (UHRP). The UHRP was founded by the UAA in 2004 with the NED as the principal source of funding. The NED granted the UHRP a whopping $1,244,698 between 2016 and ’19.

The UHRP is staffed by WUC leaders like Omer Kanat and Nury Turkel, along with former US government officials and senior members of the NED.

Dr. Elise Anderson serves as UHRP’s Senior Program Office for Research and Advocacy. In 2019, Anderson served as the Liu Xiaobo Fellow, occupying a position at the Congressional-Executive Commission on China named for the far-right Chinese dissident who supported colonialism, US militarism and the “Westernisation” of China.

Anderson states that from 2012 to 2016, she was “based out of Ürümchi, the regional capital of Xinjiang,” conducting research for her doctorate. The extent of her activities in the region are unclear, as Anderson’s CV indicates that during this time she was also working for the US government as “Ürümchi Warden for the US Embassy in Beijing, China, 2014–16.”

Louisa Coan Greve, the former vice president of NED, today serves as UHRP’s Director of Global Advocacy. Greve formerly worked as Vice President of the NED.

*Rushan Abbas, the US national security state’s favorite “human rights activist”*





Another influential organization spun out of the WUC network is the Campaign for Uyghurs. This group is headed by Rushan Abbas, the former Vice President of the UAA. Promoted simply as a Uyghur “human rights activist” by Western media outlets including the supposedly adversarial Democracy Now!, Abbas is, in fact, a longtime US government and military operative.

Abbas boasts in her bio of her “extensive experience working with US government agencies, including Homeland Security, Department of Defense, Department of State, and various US intelligence agencies.”

While working for the military contractor L3 Technologies, Abbas served the US government and the Bush administration’s so-called war on terror as a “consultant at Guantanamo Bay supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.” Abbas “also worked as a linguist and translator for several federal agencies including work for the US State Department in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and for President George W. Bush and former First Lady Laura Bush”. Like so many of her colleagues, Abbas enjoyed a stint at Radio Free Asia.

While Abbas once shared her history of collaboration with the US government in the open, she has attempted to scrub biographic information from her online presence following a disastrous publicity appearance in December 2019. During a Reddit’s “Ask Me Anything” question and answer forum, participants blasted Abbas as a “CIA asset” and frequent US government collaborator, prompting her attempt to disappear her bio from the internet.

Besides collaborating with the US government, Abbas’ professional experience consists of aiding the expansion of US capitalism in the global south. She boasts work with consulting firms such as ISI Consultants which “assists US companies to grow their business in Middle East and African markets.” Abbas claims to have “over 15 years of experience in global business development, strategic business analysis, business consultancy and government affairs throughout the Middle East, Africa, CIS regions, Europe, Asia, Australia, North America and Latin America.”

*Celebrating the Gray Wolves, proposing US and Turkish military intervention*
Along with their extensive ties to Washington, the WUC and Uyghur separatist movement has maintained close connections with the Turkish far-right.

In 2015, members of the MHP-affiliated Grey Wolves formerly led by Alparslan Türkeş attacked South Korean tourists in Turkey, mistaking them for Chinese citizens, in protest of the situation in Xinjiang.

Turkish MHP party leader Devlet Bahçeli defended the attacks. “How are you going to differentiate between Korean and Chinese?” the rightist politician questioned. “They both have slanted eyes. Does it really matter?” Bahceli’s racist remarks coincided with the display of a Grey Wolves banner at party’s Istanbul headquarters reading, “We crave Chinese blood.”

The Grey Wolves and Uyghur militants were blamed by Thailand’s national police and an IHS-Jane’s analyst of carrying out a 2015 bombing of a religious shrine in Thailand that killed 20 people. The attack was intended as revenge against the Thai government’s decision to repatriate a group of Uyghur Muslims to China. Beijing had claimed the Uyghurs were en route to Turkey, Syria or Iraq to join extremist groups fighting in the region such as the al-Qaeda-affiliated East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), or Turkestan Islamic Party (TIP).

Months before the bombing, a group of 200 protesters waving East Turkestan flags attacked the Thai consulate in Istanbul in response to the Uyghur repatriation. The group was reportedly led by the Grey Wolves and East Turkestan Culture and Solidarity Association. The latter organization was headed by Seyit Tümturk, who served as WUC Vice President from 2008 to 2016 and belonged to the organization’s founding pantheon.

The WUC continues to publish articles on its website that praise and celebrate Alparslan Türkeş, the far-right, ultra-nationalist founder of the Grey Wolves and long-time MHP party leader. Its website also promotes endorsements of East Turkestan separatism by current leaders of the MHP and Grey Wolves.

While building links with the Turkish far-right, leading WUC representatives have appealed to Turkish President Erdogan to take an interventionist role in China akin to Turkey’s actions in Libya and Syria, where it supported the regime change efforts of the US, West and an array of extremist proxy groups.

Writing in the Wall Street Journal in 2012, Nury Turkel argued that Turkey can play a leading role in “rallying democracies” to pressure China on Xinjiang: “As a longstanding ally of the US and a neighbor of Europe, Turkey is uniquely well-situated to do this.”

As a first step in this strategy, Turkel proposed that Turkey “should organize a ‘friends of Uighurs’ conference with democratic allies – similar to the ones organized for Libya and Syria – discussing Ankara’s vision and policy objectives with respect to the Uighur people in China.”

Other leading representatives of WUC have vocally endorsed Turkish military interventionism. The political statements of Seyit Tümturk, who served as WUC Vice President, underscore the extremist and militant politics behind WUC’s carefully cultivated image as a “peaceful and nonviolent” human rights organization.

In 2018, Tümturk declared that Chinese Uyghurs view Turkish “state requests as orders.” He then proclaimed that hundreds of thousands of Chinese Uyghurs were ready to enlist in the Turkish army and join Turkey’s illegal and brutal invasion of Northern Syria “to fight for God” – if ordered to do so by Erdogan.

Shortly after Tumturk’s comments, Uyghur militants dressed in Turkish military fatigues and on the Turkish side of the Syrian border released a video in which they threatened to wage war against China:

“Listen you dog bastards, do you see this? We will triumph!” one fighter exclaimed. “We will kill you all. Listen up Chinese civilians, get out of our East Turkestan. I am warning you. We shall return and we will be victorious.”

The second installment of this investigation will detail the shadowy relationship between the WUC’s lobbying apparatus, Western governments and violent extremist organizations like the East Turkestan Islamic Party, which are waging a separatist religious war from Western China to Syria’s Idlib province.




Ajit Singh
Ajit Singh is a lawyer and journalist. He is a contributing author to _Keywords in Radical Philosophy and Education: Common Concepts for Contemporary Movements_ (Brill: 2019). He tweets at @ajitxsingh.

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## beijingwalker

@waz @WebMaster

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## surya kiran

Independent87548 said:


> Stop posting this CIA propaganda. Why are there so many CIA bots on this forum? Mods? Where are you???



I am a bot. Robot.

So if someone does not agree with Chinese propaganda, person should be shut down is it? Once upon a time, long long ago....this forum actually used to have good discussions irrespective of nationality and political positions.

The bane of this forum, has been people who now have zero interest/tolerance for an opposing point of view.



beijingwalker said:


> @waz @WebMaster



Typical Chinese behaviour. 

@waz Maybe the poll was a bit over the top. If you wish, I can remove the poll and post a new thread.

Do advice.

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## Aspen

It's so hard to take Indians seriously when they pull stunts like this


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## beijingwalker

surya kiran said:


> Typical Chinese behaviour.


The Mod made a rule in PDF that all Xinjiang and Uighur issues must be posted in one thread, how come this is a Chinese behavior?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/all-...development-videos-etc-in-here-please.621888/

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## Muhammed45

beijingwalker said:


> @waz @WebMaster


The Indian Muslim hater shot himself in the feet my friend :






That says everything. Uyghur case is important for us but not at expense of Chinese security. Majority of Uyghurs won't fall into western traps, this specific group that works with west to undermine Chinese territorial integrity must be declared as a terrorist group along with joker Dalai wahtever.

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## surya kiran

beijingwalker said:


> The Mod made a rule in PDF that all Xinjiang and Uighur issues must be posted in one thread, how come this is a Chinese behavior?
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/all-...development-videos-etc-in-here-please.621888/



That thread was made by you. And why are you getting so defensive about East Turkestan? Did I touch a raw nerve? You are welcome to have an opinion, just like I have mine. 

And yes, I have tagged the mod too. He is welcome to do advice on the same. And will follow his lead.

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## Char

surya kiran said:


> The World Uyghur Congress (Uyghur: دۇنيا ئۇيغۇر قۇرۇلتىيى‎, ULY: Dunya Uyghur Qurultiyi, USY: Дунйа Уйғур Қурултийи; Chinese: 世界维吾尔代表大会; pinyin: Shìjiè Wéiwú'ěr Dàibiǎo Dàhuì; abbreviated WUC) is an international organisation of exiled Uyghur groups that aspires to "represent the collective interest of the Uyghur people" both inside and outside of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (also called East Turkestan) of the People's Republic of China.
> 
> The World Uyghur Congress describes itself as a nonviolent and peaceful movement that opposes what it considers to be the Chinese occupation of East Turkestan and advocates rejection of totalitarianism, religious intolerance and terrorism as an instrument of policy.



These are all dead man, died but not buried.


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## surge

I think they can stay within china there is no problem with that however china should allow them freely follow their religion and culture etc.


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## Char

surge said:


> I think they can stay within china there is no problem with that however china should allow them freely follow their religion and culture etc.



More liberals, falungongs, tibetian separatists left China, it's their choice.

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## surge

Char said:


> More liberals, falungongs, tibetian separatists left China, it's their choice.


Why would they leave their lands?


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## Char

surge said:


> Why would they leave their lands?



Different group different reason, all can be used by West to make trouble for China, wish they a good life in the West.

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## surya kiran

Char said:


> These are all dead man, died but not buried.



So you are of the opinion that because they are not following what the CCP wants, they should be killed?



Char said:


> More liberals, falungongs, tibetian separatists left China, it's their choice.


So are you of the opinion that Uighurs who follow Islam as their religion should leave China...because they want to follow their customs?

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## Char

surya kiran said:


> So you are of the opinion that because they are not following what the CCP wants, they should be killed?
> 
> 
> So are you of the opinion that Uighurs who follow Islam as their religion should leave China...because they want to follow their customs?



Most didn't leave and living well.

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## beijingwalker

surya kiran said:


> So you are of the opinion that because they are not following what the CCP wants, they should be killed?
> 
> 
> So are you of the opinion that Uighurs who follow Islam as their religion should leave China...because they want to follow their customs?


Separatists and terrorists should be dealt with no mercy, the majority of Uighur people are law abiding Chinese citizens. Only Indians kill based on their caste status and ethnicity, China doesn't and unlike India, who doesn't care about its people, China takes good care of all law abiding citizens.

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## surya kiran

beijingwalker said:


> Separatists and terrorists should be dealt with no mercy, the majority of Uighur people are law abiding Chinese citizens. *Only Indians kill *based on their caste status and ethnicity, China doesn't and unlike India, who doesn't care about its people, China takes good care of all law abiding citizens.



So what is your opinion on Mao?



Char said:


> Most didn't leave and living well.


 
Still did not answer my query.


----------



## beijingwalker

surya kiran said:


> So what is your opinion on Mao?


He had been dead for half a century, how come you guys keep bringing him up? He was a great figure in the Chinese history, that's my opinion. There were many great figures in China's thousands of years long history.


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## Char

surya kiran said:


> So what is your opinion on Mao?
> 
> 
> 
> Still did not answer my query.



Don't focus on several people with big mouth, it make none sense, no one can make trouble in Xinjiang now whether you like it or not.


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## surya kiran

Char said:


> Don't focus on several people with big mouth, it make none sense, no one can make trouble in Xinjiang now whether you like it or not.



Honestly as a personal opinion, I don't care what you lot do in Xinjiang. But then, it is interesting to see the double standards of a lot of forum members here.



beijingwalker said:


> He had been dead for half a century, how come you guys keep bringing him up? He was a great figure in the Chinese history, that's my opinion. There were many great figures in China's thousands of years long history.



Aah no. Just murdered more Chinese than Hitler did to Jews. But well...he was a great figure....according to you. And now pretty sure, you will throw propaganda numbers at me.


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## Char

surya kiran said:


> Honestly as a personal opinion, I don't care what you lot do in Xinjiang. But then, it is interesting to see the double standards of a lot of forum members here.



If Muslim in india are treated equally like in China then cry double standards.


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## beijingwalker

surya kiran said:


> Aah no. Just murdered more Chinese than Hitler did to Jews.


What is murder? You just echoe the same western lies circulating around for decades, millions of Indians die from natural disasters, diseases and mismanagement in the past 70 years, can I say Indian government murdered those people dying from poverty, malnutrition and preventable diseases?

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## Bismarck

More than 1 million Uighurs have disappeared into China's internment camps in Xinjiang province. A DW investigation reveals how many of them were tried for their alleged "crimes" in sham trials.
In the Chinese government's vast network of re-education camps in Xinjiang province, the daily horror of internment was infused with monotony and boredom. Detainees were forced to endure countless hours of indoctrination and language classes, perched on small stools. In some facilities, they had to watch TV propaganda broadcasts praising President Xi Jinping for hours on end.
The slightest infraction, such as a whispered conversation, was met with swift and harsh punishment.
But among the many months spent locked up, some former detainees report that one day was different: The day when they were forced to pick one or several infractions from a list they were handed. In essence, the detainees had to retroactively choose the crimes for which they had been imprisoned, often for months, in most cases without being told why they had been detained in the first place.
After picking a crime from the list came a sham trial, in which the detainees had no legal representation and were convicted without evidence or due process of any kind. DW spoke to four former detainees, two men and two women from Xinjiang, a remote region in northwestern China whose mostly Muslim population has long faced repression by the Chinese authorities — including, in recent years, lengthy internment in re-education camps.
All four detainees spent months imprisoned in Xinjiang in 2017 and 2018. The interviews were conducted independently of each other, over the course of several weeks.
Detainees forced to pick crimes from a list
 All four recalled the day they were handed a piece of paper detailing more than 70 acts and forced to choose one or several of them. Some of the acts were seemingly innocuous, such as traveling or contacting people abroad. But most of them were religious acts, such as praying or wearing a headscarf. Since then, all four former detainees have moved to neighboring Kazakhstan, following public pressure from family members living there and, most likely, behind-the-scenes diplomatic efforts by the Kazakh government. As a result, the Chinese government has released those with Kazakh residency permits, passports and family members living in Kazakhstan, which is home to a sizable Uighur community. For those without outside links and citizenship, however, it is virtually impossible to escape China's vast network of repression and constant surveillance.
While DW is unable to independently verify the four detainees' stories, their accounts corroborate each other in key aspects. 
One prisoner was in a hospital wing inside a camp, suffering from tuberculosis he had contracted during his stay, when he was given the list. The man speaks and reads little Chinese, so fellow 
inmates had to translate for him into the Uighur language.
Another was handed the paper by a teacher through the bars in the camp's classroom that separated the teaching staff from the students guarded by armed officers sporting stun guns..
more
China convicts Uighurs in sham trials at Xinjiang camps | Asia| An in-depth look at news from across the continent | DW | 08.06.2020

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## zhxy

Nein said:


> Germans are the biggest cucks of all time.
> 
> Ever since ww2 they got castrated even today they constantly apologise and feel ashamed to be german.




China should send 1 million Uighurs to Germany to make Germany great again.
Long live Germany

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## Nilgiri

zhxy said:


> China should send 1 million Uighurs to Germany to make Germany great again.
> Long live Germany



So basically fully admit that they are a problem?

I thought uighurs were "well integrated" generally and its just a "few" "trouble makers" in a "few" "re-education" "facilities"? Not to mention they are PRC citizens right? You would revoke that?

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## zhxy

Millions of Uyghur people were detained in Xinjiang. This story begins with vague images from satellites and financially supported witnesses from the United States. It quickly became suspiciously popular on media like youtube and reddit

Does anyone still remember the Gulf of Tonkin?
Does anyone still remember why the United States attacked Iraq?

If you want to know the truth, it is best to go to Xinjiang, looking with your eyes. Do not listen to one side from Western media.

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## Hamartia Antidote

zhxy said:


> Millions of Uyghur people were detained in Xinjiang. This story begins with vague images from satellites and financially supported witnesses from the United States. It quickly became suspiciously popular on media like youtube and reddit
> 
> Does anyone still remember the Gulf of Tonkin?
> Does anyone still remember why the United States attacked Iraq?
> 
> If you want to know the truth, it is best to go to Xinjiang, looking with your eyes. Do not listen to one side from Western media.



DW reporters have feet and can talk.
They aren't relying on US reports/reporters.

You may as well say Chinese news sites rely on the US.

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## Independent87548

If you get your news from the CIA controlled DW then you're a dummy.

European media has long been taken over by the CIA. Here's a whistleblower confessing to the world. He later died from mysterious circumstances (edited for accuracy). Nothing suspicious here. I'm sure the "honorable" CIA had nothing to do with his untimely demise. We know America cares deeply about freedom of the press. That's why they're torturing Julian Assange right now for exposing America's war crimes.

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## striver44

Homepage : News : China sentencing Uighur Muslims in 'sham trials': report
_


_
_The New Arab Staff

*China sentencing Uighur Muslims in 'sham trials': report*
More than one million Muslim minorities are detained in prisons and camps in China [Getty]

Date of publication: 8 June, 2020

*Detainees are forced to pick from a list of crimes including praying, wearing a headscarf*, and traveling abroad, a new report has said.



Many Uighur Muslims imprisoned in China's vast network of detention camps have been convicted of crimes such as travelling abroad or praying in sham trials, a new report has alleged.

Prisoners in China's northwestern Xinjiang province were forced to pick from a list of crimes - including so-called infractions such as possessing a passport, wearing a headscarf and praying - and face a trial without legal representation or evidence, four former detainees told Deutsche Welle (DW).

More than one million people, most of them Muslims of the Uighur ethnic minority, are detained in camps throughout Xinjiang.

Beijing claims the camps are voluntary re-education facilities designed to provide vocational training and guide residents away from ethnic separatist and Islamic extremist ideologie.

Human rights organisations and Western governments say detainees are held against their will and subject to a number of abuses inside the camps, including torture and forced labour.



A report published by DW on Monday alleges that many of the detainees have been forced to retroactively decide the "crimes" for which they were imprisoned.

Four people who spent months detained in the camps in 2017 and 2018 told the German government-funded broadcaster that they were forced to choose from a list of crimes.

After picking a crime or several, they were then convicted in a sham trial without legal representation or due process.

Many of the infractions on the list of more than 70 so-called crimes were seemingly harmless, including traveling or speaking to people abroad.

Others came clearly as part of Chinese government targeting of Islamic practices in the Muslim-majority Xinjiang region, such as praying or wearing the hijab.
The list appeared to be based on a list published in 2014. That list was circulated around Xinjiang and listed "extreme religious acts", including "inciting jihad" and "distributing religious propaganda material", but also giving up smoking or drinking.

"They threatened us: 'if you don't pick anything, that means you did not confess your crime. If you don't confess, you will stay here forever'. That's why we picked one crime," a woman detained in March 2018 told DW.

*Read more: How coronavirus presented China with a dream opportunity for surveillance*

Another former detainee said the list came with the hope of leaving the camp eventually: "To be honest, we were happy - at least we now knew the time period we would spend in the camp. Before that, no one told us how long we had to stay."

One of the former detainees described how, a few days after being forced to pick an infraction from the list, she was sentenced without a trial.

"I was given 2 years for traveling abroad. I started feeling very sad, but still, compared to other people, my sentence was the lightest. Some people were given six years, 10 years even," she said.

The longer sentences were generally given for religious acts, such as praying regularly.

Another detainee was given a trial but there were "no lawyers" and five or six people were tried at a time. After being told their sentence, detainees had to say "I promise I won't repeat my wrongdoings", she said.

The nature of the sham trials appears to differ from camp to camp, with some being tried in the presence of their relatives or one-by-one.

Although it is impossible to determine how widespread the practice is, DW was able to confirm sham trials taking place in at least three camps in Xinjiang.

Those handed down longer sentences for religious acts were taken away not long after the sham trials, the former detainees said. It is unclear where they were taken.

Others were sent to labour camps or put under house arrest.

One detainee put under house arrest was forced to host different Communist Party members at her home, while also attending a flag-raising ceremony, party meetings, and Chinese-language classes every day_

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## beijingwalker

@waz 
I can post hundreds of articles and videos showing the opposite, but based on the PDF rule, all Xinjiang and Uighur related posts must be in one thread.

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## Mamluk

Why is there no news of India killing, lynching, raping Muslims all over India? There are concentrations camps in Kashmir and Assam, real ones not re-education camps.

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang spends big proportion of investment in improving livelihood*
Source: Xinhua| 2020-05-06 20:18:39
URUMQI, May 6 (Xinhua) -- Authorities have spent a significant proportion of investment in improving people's livelihood in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region.

For years, the region allocated 70 percent of its public expenditure to continuously implement a series of projects benefiting employment, culture, education and healthcare.

The investment guaranteed that people of various ethnic backgrounds shared the benefits of economic growth equally, according to the regional government.

So far, every family in Xinjiang has at least one person with a job, and* 99.9 percent of children of school age have entered schools. Free healthcare is provided to the public annually.*

From 2014 to 2019, Xinjiang had lifted close to 3 million impoverished people out of poverty. *This year, all rural impoverished population will cast off poverty in Xinjiang*, the government said.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-05/06/c_139035619.htm

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## kankan326

Many people blame discrimination to the black people now. But do you think black people are discrimated only because of skin color?


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## zhxy

Germany are hypocritical nation. They condemn China for the Uighurs and they continue to do business with China. It wants China to buy more of its goods. And then, their media continued to post fake news to slander China


These scumbags are the best example of a quote
*"Whores and scoundrels always talk of their honour'"*​

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## sinait

MORE CHINA SPAMMING FROM CIA STOOGES.
.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Independent87548 said:


> If you get your news from the CIA controlled DW then you're a dummy.
> 
> European media has long been taken over by the CIA. Here's a whistleblower confessing to the world. *He "died from a heart attack" just weeks late*r. Nothing suspicious here. I'm sure the "honorable" CIA had nothing to do with his untimely demise. We know America cares deeply about freedom of the press. That's why they're torturing Julian Assange right now for exposing America's war crimes.



Oh really...weeks later huh
Your video is dated *Oct 18, 2014*

Yet look at this

https://ecoterra.info/index.php/ga/...r-newspaper-editor-who-exposed-cia-found-dead
*January 15, 2017*
Former Newspaper Editor Who Exposed CIA Found Dead



You are too ***** to spend the whole 10 seconds it takes to fact check your story and I'm going to point it out to everybody.

Next time use Google search instead of Baidu

This link will show you how
http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=when+did+Udo+Ulfkotte+ die

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## Independent87548

@Hamartia Antidote What is your point? He died from mysterious circumstances for exposing the CIA's fake news network and all you can do is nitpick minor details to distract. It's hard to keep up with the *AVALANCHE OF BULLSHIT *from the western "free press" so don't be surprised when I get some minor details wrong.

Did you find those wmd in Iraq yet that led to the genocidal and illegal war against your Muslim friends that you "really really care so much for"?

Speaking of weak minded...you're constantly upvoting CIA propaganda... good good CIA shill. Keep earning that empire blood money you paid liar.







Here's the video again since you don't want the CIA's European propaganda network exposed for the world to see.


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## Globenim

Bismarck said:


> More than 1 million Uighurs


Stopped reading there. Another spin recycling and parotting the same old *long debunked *U.S. regime fabricated propaganda *lies *to feed some brainless retards and wasting the lifetime of people.


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## Bismarck

Globenim said:


> Stopped reading there. Another spin recycling and parotting the same old *long debunked *U.S. regime fabricated propaganda *lies *to feed some brainless retards and wasting the lifetime of people.



Is it possible to visit this camps?



Independent87548 said:


> @Hamartia Antidote What is your point? He died from mysterious circumstances for exposing the CIA's fake news network and all you can do is nitpick minor details to distract. It's hard to keep up with the *AVALANCHE OF BULLSHIT *from the western "free press" so don't be surprised when I get some minor details wrong.
> 
> Did you find those wmd in Iraq yet that led to the genocidal and illegal war against your Muslim friends that you "really really care so much for"?
> 
> Speaking of weak minded...you're constantly upvoting CIA propaganda... good good CIA shill. Keep earning that empire blood money you paid liar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the video again since you don't want the CIA's European propaganda network exposed for the world to see.



Are you chinese origin?

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## beijingwalker

Music and dance video, today's Xinjiang


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## CAPRICORN-88

Bismarck said:


> More than 1 million Uighurs have disappeared into China's internment camps in Xinjiang province. A DW investigation reveals how many of them were tried for their alleged "crimes" in sham trials.
> In the Chinese government's vast network of re-education camps in Xinjiang province, the daily horror of internment was infused with monotony and boredom. Detainees were forced to endure countless hours of indoctrination and language classes, perched on small stools. In some facilities, they had to watch TV propaganda broadcasts praising President Xi Jinping for hours on end.
> The slightest infraction, such as a whispered conversation, was met with swift and harsh punishment.
> But among the many months spent locked up, some former detainees report that one day was different: The day when they were forced to pick one or several infractions from a list they were handed. In essence, the detainees had to retroactively choose the crimes for which they had been imprisoned, often for months, in most cases without being told why they had been detained in the first place.
> After picking a crime from the list came a sham trial, in which the detainees had no legal representation and were convicted without evidence or due process of any kind. DW spoke to four former detainees, two men and two women from Xinjiang, a remote region in northwestern China whose mostly Muslim population has long faced repression by the Chinese authorities — including, in recent years, lengthy internment in re-education camps.
> All four detainees spent months imprisoned in Xinjiang in 2017 and 2018. The interviews were conducted independently of each other, over the course of several weeks.
> Detainees forced to pick crimes from a list
> All four recalled the day they were handed a piece of paper detailing more than 70 acts and forced to choose one or several of them. Some of the acts were seemingly innocuous, such as traveling or contacting people abroad. But most of them were religious acts, such as praying or wearing a headscarf. Since then, all four former detainees have moved to neighboring Kazakhstan, following public pressure from family members living there and, most likely, behind-the-scenes diplomatic efforts by the Kazakh government. As a result, the Chinese government has released those with Kazakh residency permits, passports and family members living in Kazakhstan, which is home to a sizable Uighur community. For those without outside links and citizenship, however, it is virtually impossible to escape China's vast network of repression and constant surveillance.
> While DW is unable to independently verify the four detainees' stories, their accounts corroborate each other
> China convicts Uighurs in sham trials at Xinjiang camps | Asia| An in-depth look at news from across the continent | DW | 08.06.2020


When these 1 million suddenly reappear sometimes in the future like the Tank Man, it will be a miracle of Allah or God? 
Stop wasting your time on propaganda from the West and US, this is the 21st Century. 
Speaking from experience, of course. 
A reeducated program is much better than one that the one used by USA in Guantanamo Camp which were later shifted to Afghanistan.


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## Bismarck

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> When these 1 million suddenly reappear sometimes in the future like the Tank Man, it will be a miracle of Allah or God?
> Stop wasting your time on propaganda from the West and US, this is the 21st Century.
> Speaking from experience, of course.
> A reeducated program is much better than one that the one used by USA in Guantanamo Camp which were later shifted to Afghanistan.



Cheap propaganda? What exactly is propaganda, and why should world believe in a totalitarian regime? Yes, speaking from experience. And now, you think you have the rights to do same.


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## beijingwalker

Bismarck said:


> Cheap propaganda? What exactly is propaganda, and why should world believe in a totalitarian regime? Yes, speaking from experience. And now, you think you have the rights to do same.


Why should the world believe western propaganda machines which claimed Iraq possessed WMD thus launched a war resulting millions of civilians deaths?

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## Bismarck

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Oh really...weeks later huh
> Your video is dated *Oct 18, 2014*
> 
> Yet look at this
> 
> https://ecoterra.info/index.php/ga/...r-newspaper-editor-who-exposed-cia-found-dead
> *January 15, 2017*
> Former Newspaper Editor Who Exposed CIA Found Dead
> 
> 
> 
> You are too ***** to spend the whole 10 seconds it takes to fact check your story and I'm going to point it out to everybody.
> 
> Next time use Google search instead of Baidu
> 
> This link will show you how
> http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=when+did+Udo+Ulfkotte+ die



Thanks for sharing



beijingwalker said:


> Why should the world believe western propaganda machines which claimed Iraq possessed WMD thus launched a war resulting millions of civilians deaths?



This lies came out. Yours will do same.

What we need is an independent observer group.


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## beijingwalker

Bismarck said:


> This lies came out. Yours will do same.
> 
> What we need is an independent observer groub.



Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Only fools believe their lies any more.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Bismarck said:


> Cheap propaganda? What exactly is propaganda, and why should world believe in a totalitarian regime? Yes, speaking from experience. And now, you think you have the rights to do same.


Totalitarian regime???
Today we may be referring to Trump USA. 
So UN ICC is a kangaroo court. If that is not propaganda, what is. 
https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.amp...d-trump-george-floyd-protests-military-threat


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## Bismarck

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Totalitarian regime???
> Today we may be referring to Trump USA.
> So UN ICC is a kangaroo court. If that is not propaganda, what is.
> https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/02/donald-trump-george-floyd-protests-military-threat?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA=#aoh=15921488997569&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/02/donald-trump-george-floyd-protests-military-threat



Has China totalitarian regime, yes or no?



beijingwalker said:


> Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Only fools believe their lies any more.



No, EVERYBODY believe their own lies.


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## beijingwalker

Bismarck said:


> No, EVERYBODY believe their own lies.


Fair enough, you can keep believing your own lies.


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## CAPRICORN-88

Bismarck said:


> Has China totalitarian regime, yes or no?
> 
> No, EVERYBODY believe their own lies.



That is a matter of interpretation and depending on your understanding of China system of Government and Parliament, for example deputies to NPC are elected not based on CPC membership.
They are selected as grassroots level and can be from any of the 8 parties in agreement and collaboration. It is more of a system of meritocracy.

However today I would considered Trump USA totalitarian.
Trump administration can shut down an entire US Government for months to blackmail Congress into approving his funding for his Mexican Wall.
Reports of Police brutalities has recently won praise and approval from Trump with the attending Generals all in red faces.
Former FBI director James Comey spoke of that in his book - A higher loyalty. 
How about the insiders' accounts by others about the White House - *Unhinge* by Trump former campaign manager, etc
Trump sanction ICC officials and families.
Today we have Republican lawmakers alleging that they are Trump prisoners with no FREE will, isn't that evidences enough.

So on one hand we have all the features of a totalitarian or police state in USA but you keep ignoring them and is barking at the wrong tree.
That is both nice and hilariously amusing.

Well. Keep on believing what you want to believe but I am too experience for such arbitral and illogical argument.
To me facts matter more. The records speak for themselves.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> The Mod made a rule in PDF that all Xinjiang and Uighur issues must be posted in one thread, how come this is a Chinese behavior?
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/all-...development-videos-etc-in-here-please.621888/



The mods didn't. You made them do it so Uighurs plight will not get coverage

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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> The mods didn't. You made them do it so Uighurs plight will not get coverage


They did, otherwise I would have opened hundreds of threads already.


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> They did, otherwise I would have opened hundreds of threads already.



Which you were. But then you and your Chinese brethren kept complaining to mods whenever someone posted a thread about Uighurs plight. Which eventually led to this thread.

By the way, see how censorship feels?


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Which you were. But then you and your Chinese brethren kept complaining to mods whenever someone posted a thread about Uighurs plight. Which eventually led to this thread.


Actually I'll be prefectly Ok with lifting one thread only rule, you should know the mods really did you guys a big favor for that rule.


----------



## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Actually I'll be prefectly Ok with lifting one thread only rule, you should know the mods really did you guys a big favor for that rule.



LOL. No, they didn't. Nobody bothers reading mega threads. I haven't been to any megathread except this one the whole time i have been here.

They did the Chinese a favor, as always


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> LOL. No, they didn't. Nobody bothers reading mega threads. I haven't been to any megathread except this one the whole time i have been here.
> 
> They did the Chinese a favor, as always


So we can both appeal to the mods to revoke that rule and see who can post more in the future is the rule is gone.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> So we can both appeal to the mods to revoke that rule and see who can post more in the future is the rule is gone.



Sure, i am all for it. Let the people decide who they believe. China or the Uighurs.


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## zhxy

The Uyghur problem. Real or fake. Not important. Is there any country on this planet that dares to attack China for Uighurs? No nation dares to do that. If they dare, DF-41 and DF-17 will crush them. China is not afraid of these cowards and hypocrites.

People like Fisher1 are a lot in Pakistan. You cannot persuade him to give up the anti-Chinese sentiment. And you shouldn't do that. Because if you succeed, the future in Pakistan will have many other Fisher.
Does it matter if all Pakistanis think like Fisher1? China does not care. So why try to argue when you know it doesn't work?

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## beijingwalker

*Flying high: China's ethnic group Tajiks see life ascending on Pamir Plateau*





Work as border guards they get monthly salary 5200￥，（$ 800) per person.., the place borders Pakistan and there's no conflicts there, they got nothing to do and it's just free money that the government finds a reason to give them!!


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## Song Hong

President Donald Trump expressed approval of a concentration camp for Uighur Muslims in China during a private meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping, according to former national security adviser John Bolton's upcoming memoir, "The Room Where It Happened."

In a private meeting during the 2019 G20 meeting in Japan, Trump and Xi were accompanied only by their interpreters, according to Bolton's book, parts of which were published in The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday.

Xi "explained to Trump why he was basically building concentration camps in Xinjiang," Bolton wrote, citing the interpreter's account. The interpreter added that "Trump said that Xi should go ahead with building the camps, which Trump thought was exactly the right thing to do," according to the book.

Bolton also wrote in the book that Matthew Pottinger, a retired US Marine and the current deputy national security adviser, "told me that Trump said something very similar during his November 2017 trip to China."

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-china-detention-camp-xinjiang-2020-6

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## Raphael

Surprise surprise, whites don't actually care about dark-skinned sectarian pro-ISIS pro-terror militants, they just see them as a useful pawn to hobble China. Whites are happy to see them die pitifully like slaves and churned up in China's meat-grinder, because they believe it will waste China's bullets that would otherwise be used on more precious white lives. But sadly for whites, China is the biggest industrial power on the planet, and we have enough bullets to euthanize both white supremacists AND kebab terrorists.

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## Beast

Song Hong said:


> Trump does not seem hate China's policies on Uighur. Most likely, his Uighur policies are guided by deep state.
> 
> Neither did Arabs, Iranians or Pakistani voice much objections.
> 
> The worst busybody and Uighur sympathizer other than Turks are Malay/Indonesians. They are loser and they need to hate Chinese out of their inferiority complex.


@striver44

Looks like you cheer on the wrong leader...

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## striver44

No worry fren.change my mind I'm now #teamxijinping.

I side with leaders with the the sweetest daughter. I don't like ivanka now btw

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## Trango Towers

Raphael said:


> Surprise surprise, whites don't actually care about dark-skinned sectarian pro-ISIS pro-terror militants, they just see them as a useful pawn to hobble China. Whites are happy to see them die pitifully like slaves and churned up in China's meat-grinder, because they believe it will waste China's bullets that would otherwise be used on more precious white lives. But sadly for whites, China is the biggest industrial power on the planet, and we have enough bullets to euthanize both white supremacists AND kebab terrorists.


Dont talk crap....that corona is effecting you. When nations oppress masses the result are evident in history. Deal with corona for now

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## asena_great

turkmenistan should cut gas export to china

turkic countries should make a united front against china

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## KAL-EL

Find it utterly fascinating that people will automatically now believe whatever Bolton says. 

Bolton might in fact be telling the truth, however, he is an exactly known for being a truthful person.

He also has an ax to grind with Trump


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## striver44

Baybars Han said:


> Don't worry chink, time is going to come where we will put you on skewers next to the bats and dogs you eat, like we did in the past with Göktürks and the white europeons during Seljuks and Ottomans. Your only advantage is your numbers but you have no heart and bravery. Japanese slayed you and USA had to save you even though you were 10 times them.


Indonesian muslims are the largest in the world. 
the combined arab muslims voice are not even a match for us (Turkish+Malaysian+Indonesian) muslims. Lol


Uyghur people must be very thankful to Indonesia,Malaysia and Turkey.

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## Trango Towers

KAL-EL said:


> Find it utterly fascinating that people will automatically now believe whatever Bolton says.
> 
> Bolton might in fact be telling the truth, however, he is an exactly known for being a truthful person.
> 
> He also has an ax to grind with Trump


Only jews love trump and Clinton because both their daughters are speaking for facist jews


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## Raphael

Trango Towers said:


> Dont talk crap....that corona is effecting you. When nations oppress masses the result are evident in history. Deal with corona for now



Nothing to do with "masses". This is about a small but influential minority of troublemakers and militant kebabs for whom your sympathy is totally misplaced. There is no appetite or tolerance by Chinese people to allow our territory to be turned into another terrorist hellscape like Syria or Libya after they were ravaged by US and its dark-skinned NATO ally. Hence we are taking preemptive measures.

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## atan651

Trump was right! Thank you Bolton for the revelation.

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## ChineseTiger1986

China didn't build any concentration camp for Uighur.

Both Trump and Bolton are madman.

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## Indos

I think men should not ever talk about skin tone like @Raphael . It is a female stuff LOL. I can understand if @Song Hong bring up skin color here 

Any way if I think being brown is something inferior I would not put my own photo on my profile picture here.


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## fisher1

Moment of shame for Muslims who denied the existence of such concentration camps. 

Even if this news is true, it means those concentration camps exist.


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## ZeEa5KPul

fisher1 said:


> Wait patiently.


No, I'm sorry, we can't do that. We can't wait 1,000 years for your promised destruction of China.

You're the one that has to accept that China has won and that your dreams of an independent homeland are finished. You want a homeland? Make one on the moon.


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## Raphael

Indos said:


> I think men should not ever talk about skin tone like @Raphael . It is a female stuff LOL. I can understand if @Song Hong bring up skin color here
> 
> Any way if I think being brown is something inferior I would not put my own photo on my profile picture here.



The point isn't to shame them for dark skin, if that's what you think. It's to expose the irony and self-hating psychology behind dark-skinned people who cheer loudly for white supremacism and US imperialism. Dark-skinned people occupy the lowest rung of the white man's race hierarchy, so they have to be mentally ill to support this system.

EDIT:
@Trango Towers @Baybars Han 

I don't know if we have a serious disagreement about terrorism and counter-terrorism, but I can see the immediate reason you lashed out was purely from objections to my language (about kebaps, US "dark-skinned" allies), which from another's perspective is provocative and undiplomatic, so for that I apologize.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang Tajiks work as border guards they get monthly salary 5200￥，（$ 800) per person.., the place borders Pakistan and there's no conflicts there, they got nothing to do and it's just free money that the government finds a reason to give them!! That's the easiest "job" in the world...


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## beijingwalker

*Revisiting the woman who lost her leg in Xinjiang terrorist bombing*
Dilqemer Tursun was 21 years old when she lost her leg during a terrorist bombing in 2014 at a shopping mall in Xinjiang's Luntai County. In an interview with CGTN, she gave a firsthand account of the attack and shared her experience of overcoming the tragedy, even finding meaning from the suffering. #






She plans to get a driver's license and buy a car, a really brave girl who lost both of her legs to terrorist attacks, but I wonder if it's legal for a disabled person like her to drive?

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> *Revisiting the woman who lost her leg in Xinjiang terrorist bombing*
> Dilqemer Tursun was 21 years old when she lost her leg during a terrorist bombing in 2014 at a shopping mall in Xinjiang's Luntai County. In an interview with CGTN, she gave a firsthand account of the attack and shared her experience of overcoming the tragedy, even finding meaning from the suffering. #
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She plans to get a driver's license and buy a car, a really brave girl who lost both of her legs to terrorist attacks, but I wonder if it's legal for a disabled person like her to drive?



May Allah swt bless our sister Dil Qamar. Brave one that she is.

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## beijingwalker

beijingwalker said:


> *Revisiting the woman who lost her leg in Xinjiang terrorist bombing*
> Dilqemer Tursun was 21 years old when she lost her leg during a terrorist bombing in 2014 at a shopping mall in Xinjiang's Luntai County. In an interview with CGTN, she gave a firsthand account of the attack and shared her experience of overcoming the tragedy, even finding meaning from the suffering. #


6 years passed, why that terrorist is still alive being interviewed?? She should be executed for committing such a crime, being lenient to terrorists is being cruels to ourselves.


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## beijingwalker

*CGTN Exclusive: Memories of fighting terrorism in Xinjiang*
"It's a life-and-death struggle," "There's blood and tears"… This documentary chronicles personal accounts of survivors and witnesses, and reveals the physical and psychological toll of terrorism over the past decades in Xinjiang. It shines a light on how people in the region have been facing up to life in the aftermath. This video contains footage released for the first time. Viewer discretion is advised. #Tianshan #Xinjiang

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## striver44

I wonder where are those pious muslims who keep blabbering myslims in kashmir issue,......why are they silent on this???

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## Song Hong

striver44 said:


> I wonder where are those pious muslims who keep blabbering myslims in kashmir issue,......why are they silent on this???


Many of indonesian jihad kid ends up killing Muslims in syria


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## striver44

Song Hong said:


> Many of indonesian jihad kid ends up killing Muslims in syria


When? The killers of muslims in syria are the non muslims ruling family of syria which is ally to china and iran.

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## Song Hong

striver44 said:


> When? The killers of muslims in syria are the non muslims ruling family of syria which is ally to china and iran.


I never seen you guys blowing up synagogues. 

Hypocrites


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## striver44

Song Hong said:


> I never seen you guys blowing up synagogues.
> 
> Hypocrites


???
Wow i don't how you come up with such idea.


But anyway Indonesian ,Malaysian and Turkish muslims are always going to be a menace to china.
Those arab muslims you mentioned are very little in number compared to Indonesian muslim let alone Turkish and malaysian.

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## Song Hong

striver44 said:


> ???
> Wow i don't how you come up with such idea.
> 
> 
> But anyway Indonesian ,Malaysian and Turkish muslims are always going to be a menace to china.
> Those arab muslimsymuslims mention are very little in number compared to Indonesian muslim let alone Turkish and malaysian.



Hui muslims will defend china. They destroyed turkestan. They hate uighur terrorists


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## Song Hong

striver44 said:


> Uhmmm ok I guess......
> 
> 
> But anyway, it's china that is getting squeezed right now don't you think?


China got Pakistan all weather ally. Not everyone are similar to Malay


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## Muhammed45

Trump is trolling China. 
Dont fall for it.


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## striver44

Song Hong said:


> China got Pakistan all weather ally


You forgot to mention NK. And that's all the friends in the world you've got.
Meanwhile in the long run a global anti china alliance is in the making, I must say china's recent brawl with India is something I should appreciate.

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## nufix

Song Hong said:


> China got Pakistan all weather ally. Not everyone are similar to Loser Malay in asia



Yes and no, Pakistan is also in bed with the US for other purposes.

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## waz

striver44 said:


> I wonder where are those pious muslims who keep blabbering myslims in kashmir issue,......why are they silent on this???



What did I tell you last time about bringing this issue in?
With all due respect what has Indonesia done or said regarding Kashmir? You speak about concentration camps, do you realise that Kashmir has over 7 million people in total lockdown, yes that's women, children and old folk, the whole population! *The world's biggest concentration camp!*

I suggest you raise awareness of this in your own country, as the last time I looked you guys were hurrying to sell palm oil to India whilst they engaged in this disgusting act (article 370), as relations with Malaysia had soured.

Now Indonesia is a brother country, but it's looking out for itself, as it should. I have shut down Pakistani posters in the past who have questioned other Muslim countries and what they are doing for Kashmir, and told them no one will help and nor should we ask for it.

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## striver44

waz said:


> What did I tell you last time about bringing this issue in?
> With all due respect what has Indonesia done or said regarding Kashmir? You speak about concentration camps, do you realise that Kashmir has over 7 million people in total lockdown, yes that's women, children and old folk, the whole population! *The world's biggest concentration camp!*
> 
> I suggest you raise awareness of this in your own country, as the last time I looked you guys were hurrying to sell palm oil to India whilst they engaged in this disgusting act (article 370), as relations with Malaysia had soured.
> 
> Now Indonesia is a brother country, but it's looking out for itself, as it should. I have shut down Pakistani posters in the past who have questioned other Muslim countries and what they are doing for Kashmir, and told them no one will help and nor should we ask for it.


look don't get me wrong . here in Indonesia what radicals terrorist in India has done for the Kashmir muslims is big issue let me tell you that, off course just like uyghurs it's never a goverment official policy to criticize what is happening in someone else country.

but I do notice some kind of pattern here, if it's kashmir then we have all sort of accusations against India, some are true, some I believe are not. but that doesn't matter to most people here.

now move on to Uyghurs, and there's a pattern to just sideline the whole issue, some even come as far as whitewashing what the CCP did with uyghurs as merely a terrorism prevention issue, but they seems to forgot that India did the same to Kashmir on the very same issue (which is domestic terrorism).

what do you think???

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> look don't get me wrong . here in Indonesia what radicals terrorist in India has done for the Kashmir muslims is big issue let me tell you that, off course just like uyghurs it's never a goverment official policy to criticize what is happening in someone else country.
> 
> but I do notice some kind of pattern here, if it's kashmir then we have all sort of accusations against India, some are true, some I believe are not. but that doesn't matter to most people here.
> 
> now move on to Uyghurs, and there's a pattern to just sideline the whole issue, some even come as far as whitewashing what the CCP did with uyghurs as merely a terrorism prevention issue, but they seems to forgot that India did the same to Kashmir on the very same issue (which is domestic terrorism).
> 
> what do you think???


Xinjiang is part of China and Kashmir is an international disputed land, there's no comparison between them. Xinjiang is never a disputed land.



striver44 said:


> now move on to Uyghurs, and there's a pattern to just sideline the whole issue, some even come as far as whitewashing what the CCP did with uyghurs as merely a terrorism prevention issue, but they seems to forgot that India did the same to Kashmir on the very same issue (which is domestic terrorism).
> 
> what do you think???



That's what China did to Xinjiang, what about Indian occupied Kashmir?

Xinjiang has registered double digit economic growth for years, tourism is booming. Children enjoy 15 years compulsory free education from kingdergarten to high school with free school meals, accommodation and healthcare. Locals enjoy government subsidies, free healthcare, free annual physical checkup, poor families were given free government houses to live with free furnitures and appliances.

Xinjiang's infrastures are becoming superb, highways, highspeed railways, subways, public facilities like hospitals, schools, airports, stadiums, libraries, theaters, parks, shopping malls are the top class in the world, second to none on this planet.

Almost all Xinjiang families now own private cars , these great achievements were beyond everyone's wildest dreams barely 5 years ago, without Xinjiang's right policies, these accomplishments can never come true.

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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang is part of China and Kashmir is an international disputed land, there's no comparison between them. Xinjiang is never a disputed land.
> 
> .


it's not about the land, it's what you did with the muslim population iside those lands.


beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang has registered double digit economic growth for years, tourism is booming. Children enjoy 15 years compulsory free education from kingdergarten to high school with free school meals, accommodation and healthcare. Locals enjoy government subsidies, free healthcare, free annual physical checkup, poor families were given free government houses to live with free furnitures and appliances.
> 
> Xinjiang's infrastures are becoming superb, highways, highspeed railways, subways, public facilities like hospitals, schools, airports, stadiums, libraries, theaters, parks, shopping malls are the top class in the world, second to none on this planet.
> 
> Almost all Xinjiang families now own private cars , these great achievements were beyond everyone's wildest dreams barely 5 years ago, without Xinjiang's right policies, these accomplishments can never come true.


that is what is wrong with you commies, you view the world as materialistic thing only, in most muslim views, what good are those house , cars and money if you don't have the luxury to practice you creed.

this is what you don't understand and will never understand. you can boast all day and night about how rich xinjiang is and how prosperous its inhabitants (assume that everybody buys your claim) but the news that Muslims are forced to renounce their religion is now spreading like wildfire and those claims you made will never be justified.

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> it's not about the land, it's what you did with the muslim population iside those lands.
> 
> that is what is wrong with you commies, you view the world as materialistic thing only, in most muslim views, what good are those house , cars and money if you don't have the luxury to practice you creed.
> 
> this is what you don't understand and will never understand. you can boast all day and night about how rich xinjiang is and how prosperous its inhabitants (assume that everybody buys your claim) but the news that Muslims are forced to renounce their religion is now spreading like wildfire and those claims you made will never be justified.


Humans have basic needs, if those basic needs can not be met in the first place, you have no freedom of anything to start with, even people from highly religious countries move to rich countries to seek a better life, what you believe doesn't represent the majority population of your country.



fisher1 said:


> Turkestan is disputed territory.


Turkestan or Turkey or some other parts of the world can be disputed land but not Xinjiang, which country disputes China over Xinjiang? Mind to specify?


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## waz

fisher1 said:


> He's not wrong though.
> 
> What Indonesia is doing, the same Pakistan is doing. At least, Indonesia doesn't call India iron brothers. And Indonesia doesn't have any atom bomb or is called fort of Islam so kinda weird expecting them to stand up to giants like India when Pakistan can't even say "uff" to China.
> 
> I just don't know how people do it. Show sympathy for Kashmiris while in the same sentence side with China.



Sorry he is, and you know it. Don't let your hatred of China get in the way. It's hypocritical beyond belief to jump on one issue and yet ignore another. 
Indonesia has excellent relations with India, and more. The point about calling them brothers is redundant because few nations in the world share ties that China and Pakistan do, another example is the USA and Israel. 
The fort of Islam, atom bomb yada yada, these are all slogans from people. 
As for people caring for Kashmiris, they share ethnic and cultural ties with Pakistanis, hence why there is more of a synergy.


----------



## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Humans have basic needs, if those basic needs can not be met in the first place, you have no freedom of anything to start with, even people from highly religious countries move to rich countries to seek a better life, what you believe doesn't represent the majority population of your country.
> 
> 
> Turkestan or Turkey or some other parts of the world can be disputed land but not Xinjiang, which country disputes China over Xinjiang? Mind to specify?


ahhh yes, spoken like a true commie, if i don't have those and those , I couldn't do shit. I don't blame you, materialism is central part of the religion of communism.

they (muslim in xinjiang) are ok without having the need to be sent to re-education camps, or their wives, mother and kids to be separated and indoctrinated with the false religion which is communism.

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## waz

striver44 said:


> look don't get me wrong . here in Indonesia what radicals terrorist in India has done for the Kashmir muslims is big issue let me tell you that, off course just like uyghurs it's never a goverment official policy to criticize what is happening in someone else country.
> 
> but I do notice some kind of pattern here, if it's kashmir then we have all sort of accusations against India, some are true, some I believe are not. but that doesn't matter to most people here.
> 
> now move on to Uyghurs, and there's a pattern to just sideline the whole issue, some even come as far as whitewashing what the CCP did with uyghurs as merely a terrorism prevention issue, but they seems to forgot that India did the same to Kashmir on the very same issue (which is domestic terrorism).
> 
> what do you think???



See this is where the problem lies, it's not just 'radical terrorist' it's India's state policy. Their government is a Hindu nationalist one which despises Muslims, I don't think you understand this. Their leader was a member of the RSS, a Hindu nationalist outfit which terrorises it's Muslim population.
What do you also mean "when it comes to India", this is just your bias, hence you're not taken seriously here i.e. you are willing go give the benefit of doubt to India but not China, as you hate China.
I can't speak about every opinion regarding the Uyghurs, people differ in their opinions, but yes it is true they won't let it get in the way of their relations with China. This is no different to what your own government does regarding Kashmir, and in actual fact I haven't seen much from many other Muslims regarding Kashmir, why, because of self interest.


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> they (muslim in xinjiang) are ok without having the need to be sent to re-education camps, or their wives, mother and kids to be separated and indoctrinated with the false religion which is communism.


1 million, 3 million, 4million, those western proganda didn't even make up their mind on a number, how laughable, they also claim Pakistan is a terrorist state and Iraq possessed WMD, only fools still believe them.



fisher1 said:


> Look up East Turkestan. It was a free state that China seized.


It never was, and an Afghan like Xinjiang state is the last thing Pakistan would like to see, it will almost certainly fall into Indian sphere of influence and become an enemy of Pakistan.
Now China is circling India, Xinjiang and Tibet serve as the bridgeheads for this containment, if Xinjiang switches camp, it'll instantly become India circling Pakistan from all sides.


----------



## striver44

waz said:


> See this is where the problem lies, it's not just 'radical terrorist' it's India's state policy. There government is a Hindu nationalist one which despises Muslims, I don't think you understand this. Their leader was a member of the RSS, a Hindu nationalist outfit which terrorises it's Muslim population.
> .


I do understand, well not much , but still we know who's Modi is and what he's doing. If you look closely I've never cheer for Modi or it's supporters in India. the video of Hindu lynching muslims and set their flag in mosque all over India is well known here from Instagram, whatsapp group etc.
Sure I might not be an expert in India and Pakistan politics, but heyy, trying to portray me as ignorant to what they modi radicals did is not true at all.


waz said:


> What do you also mean "when it comes to India", this is just your bias, hence you're not taken seriously here i.e. you are willing go give the benefit of doubt to India but not China, as you hate China.
> .


look I'm actually pointing to some (supposedly pious muslim) members here which when it comes to china never actually raise a single word, and in my defense I never try to be some sort of champions for muslim cause. the same could not be applied to some member here whom preach pan islamism. while being blind to the plight of their fellow muslims.


waz said:


> I can't speak about every opinion regarding the Uyghurs, people differ in their opinions, but yes it is true they won't let it get in the way of their relations with China. This is no different to what your own government does regarding Kashmir, and in actual fact I haven't seen much from many other Muslims regarding Kashmir, why, because of self interest.


look to be honest there is very little of what Muslim majority countries all over the world can do to help each other. just being realistic here.
I don't mind those nationalistic members here who viewed national cause more important than religious cause, what I'm questioning is those supposedly pious one. that's it.

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## CAPRICORN-88

While conveniently forgotten about indonesian genocide in East Timor and the killing of UN officials in West Timor.


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> 1 million, 3 million, 4million, those western proganda didn't even make up their mind on a number, how laughable, they also claim Pakistan is a terrorist state and Iraq possessed WMD, only fools still believe them.


There are actual people from xinjiang who testifies on what chinese authority did to them in those prisons. we don't need those western media actually

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> There are actual people from xinjiang who testifies on what chinese authority did to them in those prisons. we don't need those western media actually


There are actual people from xinjiang who testifies on what lies western propaganda is making. we don't need those western media actually

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## CAPRICORN-88

striver44 said:


> There are actual people from xinjiang who testifies on what chinese authority did to them in those prisons. we don't need those western media actually


Are you willing to die as a terrorist in Xinjiang in support of your brotherhood?


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> There are actual people from xinjiang who testifies on what lies western propaganda is making. we don't need those western media actually


yes testifies for chinese state controlled media, with who knows if they don't what will happen to them.
the last thing we need is not western media, but chinese one.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Indonesians who joined the ISIS in Syria are now refused entry into Indonesia. That is your nation official stance.


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## beijingwalker

Check out how developed Xinjiang is today than it was 5 years ago and say China adopted a wrong policy cause during the past 5 years not a single terrorist attack happened and Xinjiang enjoyed continuous double digit growth with a booming tourism.



striver44 said:


> yes testifies for chinese state controlled media, with who knows if they don't what will happen to them.
> the last thing we need is not western media, but chinese one.


Is this a Chinese controlled media?

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## striver44

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Indonesians who joined the ISIS in Syria are now refused entry into Indonesia. That is your nation official stance.


ummm ISIS has not yet step foot offcially in Xinjiang, but there's one in Kashmir it's called wilayat Al-Hind (province of India)
https://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/is-announce-establishing-wilayat-al-hind/
here's ISIS flag from the many demonstrations in Kashmir








beijingwalker said:


> Check out how developed Xinjiang is today than it was 5 years ago and say China adopted a wrong policy cause during the past 5 years not a single terrorist attack happened and Xinjiang enjoyed continuous double digit growth with a booming tourism.
> 
> 
> Is this a Chinese controlled media?


oh yess exactly like what those commie wants, she's an uyghur muslims with no headscarf as obliged in the Islamic law, the kind of non-practicing muslims the CCP wants.

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> ummm ISIS has not yet step foot offcially in Xinjiang, but there's one in Kashmir it's called wilayat Al-Hind (province of India)
> https://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/is-announce-establishing-wilayat-al-hind/
> here's ISIS flag from the many demonstrations in Kashmir


Many did set foot in Xinjiang in the past, they are all dead or in prisons now.



striver44 said:


> oh yess exactly like what those commie wants, she's an uyghur muslims with no headscarf as obliged in the Islamic law, the kind of non-practicing muslims the CCP wants.


People have a choice to live the way they want, this girl is in US, it's her free choice to live whatever way she wants in US. do you blame China for her way of living in US?


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Many did set foot in Xinjiang in the past, they are all dead or in prisons now.


and somehow when India did the same to the Kashmir area due to terrorism prevention issue , I don't see any pious muslim here defend those....

why is that???



beijingwalker said:


> People have a choice to live the way they want, this girl is in US, it's her free choice to live whatever way she wants in US. do you blame China for her way of living in US?


oh yess according to you, In Xinjiang prisons it's compulsory for women to let go of their headscarf. some are forced to denounce the religion.

and yes people are free to choose in the US, just not in china, especially in xinjiang.


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> and somehow when India did the same to the Kashmir area due to terrorism prevention issue , I don't see any pious muslim here defend those....
> 
> why is that???


What India did in Kashmir has nothing to do with what China did for Xinjiang , in just 5 years and check out how Xinjiang becomes so developed and people's standard of living being improved so much. India did this in Kashmir?



striver44 said:


> oh yess according to you, In Xinjiang prisons it's compulsory for women to let go of their headscarf. some are forced to denounce the religion.


What, according to me? I m not western media, you bark up the wrong tree

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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> What India did in Kashmir has nothing to do with what China did for Xinjiang , in just 5 years and check out how Xinjiang becomes so developed and people's standard of living being improved so much. India did this in Kashmir?


ahh no, if you look closely I was pointing at some supposedly pious muslim member here. when it comes to India they're the loudest but not with china. .....strange.


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> and yes people are free to choose in the US, just not in china, especially in xinjiang.


So why blame China for her way of living in US?



striver44 said:


> ahh no, if you look closely I was pointing at some supposedly pious muslim member here. when it comes to India they're the loudest but not with china. .....strange.


Cause we can see what India did in Kashmir and what did in Xinjiang. poverty vs prosperity. riots vs peace and stability.

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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> What, according to me? I m not western media, you bark up the wrong tree


nope, it's called free riding, you point me just how free uyghurs are (in the US) while taking credit for china. sure you would want to promote this kind of uyghurs , the one whom we don't know if she even does her daily prayers (like the CCP wants it).
the other could not be applied to those pious uyghur muslims (in China) who are forced to denounce the religion, forced marriage to non muslim han chinese etc.



beijingwalker said:


> So why blame China for her way of living in US?


err because we mainly talk about muslim in china not US.



beijingwalker said:


> Cause we can see what India did in Kashmir and what did in Xinjiang. poverty vs prosperity. riots vs peace and stability.


and don't forget oppression. which is one thing common between the two.

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> nope, it's called free riding, you point me just how free uyghurs are (in the US) while taking credit for china. sure you would want to promote this kind of uyghurs , the one whom we don't know if she even does her daily prayers (like the CCP wants it).
> the other could not be applied to those pious uyghur muslims (in China) who are forced to denounce the religion, forced marriage to non muslim han chinese etc.
> 
> 
> err because we mainly talk about muslim in china not US.


Uighurs changed their ways of living many times in the history, so do all the peoples , this girl chooses her way of living in US , beside, not all Uighurs are religious, and not all Muslims are Uighurs in China, the biggest Muslim group in China are Hui Muslims.


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Uighurs changed their ways of living many times in the history, so do all the peoples , this girl chooses her way of living in US , beside, not all Uighurs are religious, and not all Muslims are Uighurs in China, the biggest Muslim group in China are Hui Muslims.


sure, i'm not challenging the theory of " people do change".....nonono, not at all
it's just peculiar when the change are state enforced one.


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> and don't forget oppression. which is one thing common between the two.


Oppression of different kinds and degree exist in almost all countries in the world, Indonesia oppresses Chinese is a known fact, I think Uighurs are oppressing Han Chinese cause they got many institutionalised government granted benefits over Han Chinese, no one child policy is one of many.



striver44 said:


> sure, i'm not challenging the theory of " people do change".....nonono, not at all
> it's just peculiar when the change are state enforced one.


China changed over the decades by state enforced policies, everyone has been changed by those policies, most changes are for the better some are for the worse,


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Oppression of different kinds and degree exist in almost all countries in the world, Indonesia oppresses Chinese is a known fact, I think Uighurs are oppressing Han Chinese cause they got many institionalised government granted benefits over Han Chinese, no one child policy is one of many.


yes, true. oppression exist everywhere, it's just human nature to despise difference, but there's a scale for all things, and the scale of what you did in xinjiang makes american occupation of iraq and afghanistan looks pale in comparison. let alone what Indonesian did with ethnic chinese.
and we Indonesian are moving towards the better path not the opposite.

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> yes, true. oppression exist everywhere, it's just human nature to despise difference, but there's a scale for all things, and the scale of what you did in xinjiang makes american occupation of iraq and afghanistan looks pale in comparison. let alone what Indonesian did with ethnic chinese.
> and we Indonesian are moving towards the better path not the opposite.


lol, you brainwashed head can believe those jokes, Xinjiang and Afghanistn do sit side by side on the map, but Xinjiang's development can put most western countries to shame today, the level of development Afghanistan and Indonesia can only dream of.

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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> China changed over the decades by state enforced policies, everyone has been changed by those policies, most changes are for the better some are for the worse,


True, but we're living in the present, and currently china is doing not so pleasing things to xinjiang muslims which makes me raise the questions why are those pan islamic members getting silent over this????

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> True, but we're living in the present, and currently china is doing not so pleasing things to xinjiang muslims which makes me raise the questions why are those pan islamic members getting silent over this????


People living in Xinjiang enjoy a wonderful standard of living that they had never lived before in the history, that's the fact no one can deny.

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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> lol, you brainwashed head can believe those jokes, Xinjiang and Afghanistn do sit side by side on the map, but Xinjiang's development can put most western countries to shame today, the level of development Afghanistan and Indonesia can only dream of.


there another display of classic commie wisdom, "look pal, it's okay we incarcerate those people en masse, at least we have good roads and tall skyscrapers"

it reminds me of Mao during the great famine "look pal, my people might be a little skinny, but those factories are yuge"

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> there another display of classic commie wisdom, "look pal, it's okay we incarcerate those people en masse, at least we have good roads and tall skyscrapers"
> 
> it reminds me of Mao during the great famine "look pal, my people might be a little skinny, but those factories are yuge"


Where is Iraqi's WMD, lol, only fools still believe those propagandas.People living in Xinjiang enjoy a wonderful standard of living today that they had never lived before in the whole history, that's the fact no one can deny.

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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Where is Iraqi's WMD, lol, only fools still believe those propagandas.People living in Xinjiang enjoy a wonderful standard of living today that they had never lived before in the history, that's the fact no one can deny.


that's quite a jump in topics.

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> that's quite a jump in topics.


Same western propaganda and lies, same logic.


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Same western propaganda and lies, same logic.


well the WMD's are proven fake while China re-education camps are proven legit.

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> well the WMD's are proven fake while China re-education camps are proven legit.


LOL, Who proved it, you?


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> LOL, Who proved it, you?


there's a long list, but seeing is believing.
there a shit tons of footage coming out from xinjiang about the reality on the ground, you might wanna check it.

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> there's a long list, but seeing is believing.
> there a shit tons of footage coming out from xinjiang about the reality on the ground, you might wanna check it.



Rebiya Kadeer's granddaughters debunk western lies











striver44 said:


> there's a long list, but seeing is believing.
> there a shit tons of footage coming out from xinjiang about the reality on the ground, you might wanna check it.


LOL, A long list...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfQpJutJNG6Mpz0GD8Cmcig/videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkGtJasoyGQ-R2TFJwecw9g/videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK9Ucky97ozdCwgL-bGM43Q/videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBUz5jJkMxNF5MxjkGf8i5Q/videos

https://www.youtube.com/c/uyghurfm/videos


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Rebiya Kadeer's granddaughters debunk western lies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, A long list...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfQpJutJNG6Mpz0GD8Cmcig/videos
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkGtJasoyGQ-R2TFJwecw9g/videos
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK9Ucky97ozdCwgL-bGM43Q/videos
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBUz5jJkMxNF5MxjkGf8i5Q/videos
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/c/uyghurfm/videos


quite a list, but people actually need one to prove the otherwise.

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> quite a list, but people actually need one to prove the otherwise.


Not as long as I posted though, lol


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## striver44

or maybe another one, 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267781679764078593

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## beijingwalker

A long list...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfQpJutJNG6Mpz0GD8Cmcig/videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkGtJasoyGQ-R2TFJwecw9g/videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK9Ucky97ozdCwgL-bGM43Q/videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBUz5jJkMxNF5MxjkGf8i5Q/videos

https://www.youtube.com/c/uyghurfm/videos


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Not as long as I posted though, lol


yes that's the point right, a whole list of chinese propaganda and just one video like that the opinion is now turning against you.

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> or maybe another one,
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267781679764078593


I have hundreds of videos saying otherwise, but that's not important, how developed Xinjiang is on the ground is a hard fact that no one can deny.



striver44 said:


> yes that's the point right, a whole list of chinese propaganda and just one video like that the opinion is now turning against you.


A whole list of anti Chinese propaganda videos won't change anything to what happened on the ground in Xinjiang.


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> I have hundreds of videos saying otherwise, but that's not important, how developed Xinjiang is on the ground is a hard fact that no one can deny.
> 
> 
> A whole list of anti Chinese propaganda videos won't change anything to what happened on the ground in Xinjiang.


sure just like a whole list of chinese propaganda about a proper xinjiang would not change the tarnished reputation china had. or the fact that many poor muslims soul is xinjiang is facing


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## beijingwalker

Tell me this is fake









Tell me this is fake
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/aeri...-train-running-across-harsh-landscape.620789/


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Tell me this is fake


did I ever say it's fake, it's real. probably shot by a DJI drone (nice one).
but did it say anything about those internment camps??? off course not.

as I said it's classic communism, you look good from the outside but actually rotten from the inside. Just like the Soviet union,

I mean who would've guessed they'll ended the way they were.they just look so strong, prosperous and oh having a beautiful capital.

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## beijingwalker

Tell me this is fake

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/xinjiang-urumqi-subway-tik-tok.665381/

Tell me this is fake

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/aeri...-train-running-across-harsh-landscape.620789/



striver44 said:


> did I ever say it's fake, it's real. probably shot by a DJI drone (nice one).
> but did it say anything about those internment camps??? off course not.
> 
> as I said it's classic communism, you look good from the outside but actually rotten from the inside. Just like the Soviet union,
> 
> I mean who would've guessed they'll ended the way they were.they just look so strong, prosperous and oh having a beautiful capital.


You said my videos are fake and I said yours are fake, so let's focus on some videos that no one can say fake.

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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Tell me this is fake
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/xinjiang-urumqi-subway-tik-tok.665381/
> 
> Tell me this is fake
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/xinjiang-urumqi-subway-tik-tok.665381/


it's beautiful I must say, China should build one here as well

and it kinda prove my whole argument anyway

no offense. again beautiful station you got there.



beijingwalker said:


> You said my videos are fake and I said yours are fake, so let's focus on some videos that no one can say fake.


umm, I've never said dat your infrastructure are fake didn't I ???

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang's bullet train system

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/aeri...-train-running-across-harsh-landscape.620789/

All of them were built during the past 5 years, so the facts won't lie, China adopted the right policies for Xinjiang.

If Xinjiang's situation was like 5 years ago when terrorist attacks happened on weekly basis, Xinjiang can never become today's great peace and prosperity.

You always compare Xinjiang to Kashmir, are those videos showing anything in Xinjiang which resembling Indian occupied Kashmir? Cities in Xinjiang now can put New York to shame. Kashmir?

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## Slick

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang's bullet train system
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/aeri...-train-running-across-harsh-landscape.620789/
> 
> All of them were built during the past 5 years, so the facts won't lie, China adopted the right policies for Xinjiang.
> 
> If Xinjiang's situation was like 5 years ago when terrorist attacks happened on weekly basis, Xinjiang can never become today's great peace and prosperity.



Nothing you say is going to convince him. He wants to believe American propaganda. In his mind, China is building all this infrastructure just for show while actively torturing 1/10 of Uighurs in concentration camps. It defies logic. It makes absolutely no economic or geopolitical sense. If genocide was the goal, what was the point of excluding Uighurs from the one child policy? What's the point of giving them affirmative action? This story only fulfills one nations geopolitical goals, America.

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## 925boy

Dungeness said:


> The hatred to China that some Pakistan members displayed here is very chilling.


Tbh, i can understand why those Pakistanis feel that way, its not hard to see why, if you want to be very honest and sincere.


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## Slick

fisher1 said:


> It actually makes a lot of sense. Xinjiang is the route to CPEC. Purge the different Muslim Uighurs who don't share anything with Chinese, religion, values, morals.
> 
> Xinjiang is the most valuable land for China now due to CPEC and they want complete and absolute control over it ridding it's autonomy much like India did to Kashmir.
> 
> You really think people are naive and don't understand why China is doing this?
> 
> China has a history of ethnic cleansing other minorities, Uighurs are Muslims and China hates Islam. To a Chinese, that's like killing two birds with one stone.



What do you mean by purge? Is China murdering them? Erasing their culture? I've seen the slanderous claims and I don't buy it. It is even more dubious when these claims come straight from US government sponsored NGOs. The fact that an actual CIA asset did an AMA on Reddit makes it even more suspicious.

Why would China purge Muslims in Xinjiang to make room to build infrastructure projects to connect them with more Muslims in Pakistan? I thought they hated Muslims?

We've been through this propaganda before. I remember when the US government used to virtue signal about Tibetans being genocided. That narrative went from "China is committing genocide against Tibetans" to "China is committing cultural genocide against Tibetans" because the US government had absolutely no proof genocide was happening so they moved the goal posts to cultural. The same is happening in Xinjiang. There's no evidence of actual genocide going on, so they claim China is destroying Uighur culture.

Imprisoning 1/10th of the population doesn't make any economic sense. Angering 9/10th of the population and the Muslim ally your infrastructure projects actually go towards doesn't make much sense either. The narrative that China is oppressing Muslims only makes sense if a certain country doesn't want China to diversity its trade routes. It only makes sense if this certain country wants China to continue its trade routes through American controlled sea lanes.


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> It actually makes a lot of sense. Xinjiang is the route to CPEC.


LOL, if you think China' fate hinges on CPEC, you are so delusional and lacking common sense.

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## xuxu1457

A Uighur blogger.


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> LOL, if you think China' fate hinges on CPEC, you are so delusional and lacking common sense.



Nop


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## beijingwalker

Is Xinjiang really politically repressed?


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## beijingwalker

*犯我强汉者 虽远必诛* Anyone who offends China will be killed no matter how far the target is.

Uighur girl Gul recounts the ancient history on how Xinjiang became an unalienable part of China.

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## Naofumi

Slick said:


> Nothing you say is going to convince him. He wants to believe American propaganda. In his mind, China is building all this infrastructure just for show while actively torturing 1/10 of Uighurs in concentration camps. It defies logic. It makes absolutely no economic or geopolitical sense. If genocide was the goal, what was the point of excluding Uighurs from the one child policy? What's the point of giving them affirmative action? This story only fulfills one nations geopolitical goals, America.


Firstly, there's a lot of Han Chinese in Xinjiang too. Surely, they need infrastructure and concentration camps started in 2010s, one child policy was drafted waaaay back.


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## Slick

Naofumi said:


> Firstly, there's a lot of Han Chinese in Xinjiang too. Surely, they need infrastructure and concentration camps started in 2010s, one child policy was drafted waaaay back.



The infrastructure is for everyone. There's more Uighurs than Han in Xinjiang. Even if I accept the figures that 1 million are in concentration camps, that still leaves 10 million Uighurs. Is China known for long term planning or making decisions on the fly? The one child policy may have been drafted decades ago, but China had plenty of time to revise it. In fact, they had until 2015 and they still did nothing to limit Uighur growth. The mosque growth in Xinjiang and around China is another indicator that the narrative that "China is against Islam" is complete BS.


----------



## Naofumi

Slick said:


> The infrastructure is for everyone. There's more Uighurs than Han in Xinjiang. Even if I accept the figures that 1 million are in concentration camps, that still leaves 10 million Uighurs. Is China known for long term planning or making decisions on the fly? The one child policy may have been drafted decades ago, but China had plenty of time to revise it. In fact, they had until 2015 and they still did nothing to limit Uighur growth. The mosque growth in Xinjiang and around China is another indicator that the narrative that "China is against Islam" is complete BS.


China's goal seems to "Sinicize" the Uyghurs and as I see it, China's attention towards Uyghurs is relatively recent somewhat pumped by the rise of Han nationalism somewhat by the East Turkestan separatists that were unleashed after Taliban and Mujahiddeens.

On Mosques, I would be glad to see a timeseries on the number of Mosques in Xinjiang irrespective of the discussion above.


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## Slick

Naofumi said:


> China's goal seems to "Sinicize" the Uyghurs and as I see it, China's attention towards Uyghurs is relatively recent somewhat pumped by the rise of Han nationalism somewhat by the East Turkestan separatists that were unleashed after Taliban and Mujahiddeens.
> 
> On Mosques, I would be glad to see a timeseries on the number of Mosques in Xinjiang irrespective of the discussion above.



China is trying to de-radicalize Uighurs, not "sinicize". There isn't wide support from either the population or the government for "Han nationalism". I would like to know why you believe this is a thing. China started paying attention due to increased terrorism. The United States bombed Uighurs in Syria. The United States put Uighurs in Guantanamo Bay. Now it is precisely my country that is criticizing China for their de-radicalization programs. China does things to increase their advantage. It doesn't do things just to be evil. It's not going to do things just to shoot itself in the foot and allow the US this huge PR win.

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## Naofumi

Slick said:


> China is trying to de-radicalize Uighurs, not "sinicize". There isn't wide support from either the population or the government for "Han nationalism". I would like to know why you believe this is a thing. China started paying attention due to increased terrorism. The United States bombed Uighurs in Syria. The United States put Uighurs in Guantanamo Bay. Now it is precisely my country that is criticizing China for their de-radicalization programs. China does things to increase their advantage. It doesn't do things just to be evil. It's not going to do things just to shoot itself in the foot and allow the US this huge PR win.


Defining the boundary is the problem - 1 million is simply too much to be put in camps also this much number is also too much to be "terrorists", that pair-up program has reported rapes and the news about pork-alcohol being force-fed. I also read by a Chinese himself that hijab is discouraged, a Muslim civil servant in Xinjiang fired because he refused to smoke in front of an Imam and plenty other things of which he was boasting - it was a Quora answer (maybe still there - have to look it up), he sounded like a Han nationalist and thus I got this perception. And I know, China view Xinjiang as a strategic asset both due to natural resources and whole link-up to the BRI, they saw this bad-PR as cost to safe future of this link...

Chinese are being too much brutal to the Uighur population in their methods.

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## Slick

Naofumi said:


> Defining the boundary is the problem - 1 million is simply too much to be put in camps also this much number is also too much to be "terrorists", that pair-up program has reported rapes and the news about pork-alcohol being force-fed. I also read by a Chinese himself that hijab is discouraged, a Muslim civil servant in Xinjiang fired because he refused to smoke in front of an Imam and plenty other things of which he was boasting - it was a Quora answer (maybe still there - have to look it up), he sounded like a Han nationalist and thus I got this perception. And I know, China view Xinjiang as a strategic asset both due to natural resources and whole link-up to the BRI, they saw this bad-PR as cost to safe future of this link...
> 
> Chinese are being too much brutal to the Uighur population in their methods.


The 1 million number isn't supported by any evidence. It is a claim made by China's detractors. If the pair-up program and forced rape were true then we'll see the Uighur population dwindle in the coming years. I expect, just like with the Tibetans, we'll be seeing the opposite. The pork-alcohol force feeding is fictitious. There's no evidence or even a slight indicator that China wants Muslims to eat pork or drink alcohol. This hasn't been shown in China's eastern regions and it hasn't been shown in Xinjiang either. As for your anecdotal claims from Quora, you'd forgive me if I don't take this seriously. If oppression was China's answer, then you have to explain why China is investing so much in education in Xinjiang. What's the point of funding all those Kindergarten students, only to oppress them and encamp them later?

From my perspective, it seems to me the United States is using Xinjiang as a sore point to destabilize China. From past experience, this is highly likely to be true. I speculate that in a few decades when the CIA finally declassify documents, I'll be proven right.

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## fisher1

Slick said:


> The 1 million number isn't supported by any evidence. It is a claim made by China's detractors. If the pair-up program and forced rape were true then we'll see the Uighur population dwindle in the coming years. I expect, just like with the Tibetans, we'll be seeing the opposite. The pork-alcohol force feeding is fictitious. There's no evidence or even a slight indicator that China wants Muslims to eat pork or drink alcohol. This hasn't been shown in China's eastern regions and it hasn't been shown in Xinjiang either. As for your anecdotal claims from Quora, you'd forgive me if I don't take this seriously. If oppression was China's answer, then you have to explain why China is investing so much in education in Xinjiang. What's the point of funding all those Kindergarten students, only to oppress them and encamp them later?
> 
> From my perspective, it seems to me the United States is using Xinjiang as a sore point to destabilize China. From past experience, this is highly likely to be true. I speculate that in a few decades when the CIA finally declassify documents, I'll be proven right.



Sorry not sorry. Everything is a lie coming from a country that doesn't allow journalists and free media coverage there. 

We have a saying in Pashtu which translates to if you haven't done anything wrong then you won't hide it. 

Allow journalists and free media to visit Xinjiang and Urumqi and show us the mosques and the re-education camps. Else just shut up. 

To idiotic brainwashed Chinese who have eaten ccp propaganda everyday hearing when Winnie the pooh says is ultimate truth but this shit don't fly in the real world, bruh.

Anyone without any mental retardation can see how evil communists are and how Uighurs are getting fucked literally and figuratively.


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## Naofumi

Slick said:


> The 1 million number isn't supported by any evidence. It is a claim made by China's detractors. If the pair-up program and forced rape were true then we'll see the Uighur population dwindle in the coming years. I expect, just like with the Tibetans, we'll be seeing the opposite. The pork-alcohol force feeding is fictitious. There's no evidence or even a slight indicator that China wants Muslims to eat pork or drink alcohol. This hasn't been shown in China's eastern regions and it hasn't been shown in Xinjiang either. As for your anecdotal claims from Quora, you'd forgive me if I don't take this seriously. If oppression was China's answer, then you have to explain why China is investing so much in education in Xinjiang. What's the point of funding all those Kindergarten students, only to oppress them and encamp them later?
> 
> From my perspective, it seems to me the United States is using Xinjiang as a sore point to destabilize China. From past experience, this is highly likely to be true. I speculate that in a few decades when the CIA finally declassify documents, I'll be proven right.


See, a Sinicized Uighur - I mean an atheist-Mandarin speaking one who loves Xi Jingping is the ideal Uighur for CCP, education is simply another tool for achieving this. The rest of the point rest upon how much of the "brutal" stories are fictitious - I personally believe that there's a kernel of truth in them otherwise it's epistemological nihilism, you may disagree. 
As for the CIA, sure they are involved too but that doesn't negate anything I said above.​


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## Slick

fisher1 said:


> Sorry not sorry. Everything is a lie coming from a country that doesn't allow journalists and free media coverage there.
> 
> We have a saying in Pashtu which translates to if you haven't done anything wrong then you won't hide it.
> 
> Allow journalists and free media to visit Xinjiang and Urumqi and show us the mosques and the re-education camps. Else just shut up.
> 
> To idiotic brainwashed Chinese who have eaten ccp propaganda everyday hearing when Winnie the pooh says is ultimate truth but this shit don't fly in the real world, bruh.
> 
> Anyone without any mental retardation can see how evil communists are and how Uighurs are getting fucked literally and figuratively.



You don't have to believe a single thing coming out from the Chinese government. All you have to do is look at the claims made against the Chinese government from completely shady sources and conclude that it isn't based on evidence. You'll notice I don't need to quote Chinese media to reach my conclusion. I simply have to be skeptical. This applies to many countries the United States is against. It will make completely outlandish claims and there will always be morons (you) who eat up the propaganda.

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## fisher1

Slick said:


> You don't have to believe a single thing coming out from the Chinese government. All you have to do is look at the claims made against the Chinese government from completely shady sources and conclude that it isn't based on evidence. You'll notice I don't need to quote Chinese media to reach my conclusion. I simply have to be skeptical. This applies to many countries the United States is against. It will make completely outlandish claims and there will always be morons (you) who eat up the propaganda.



Uighurs refugees in Turkey are shady sources? Islamic scholars are shady sources? Plus several others i can post for your pleasure.

Western sources are just extra evidence to the fact. Say it's all western propaganda, what about the victims and other sources?

And the fact media isn't allowed in Xinjiang.

Not really that hard to reach the conclusion

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## Slick

fisher1 said:


> Uighurs refugees in Turkey are shady sources? Islamic scholars are shady sources?
> 
> Western sources are just extra evidence to the fact. Say it's all western propaganda, what about the victims and other sources? Plus several others i can post for your pleasure.
> 
> And the fact media isn't allowed in Xinjiang.
> 
> Not really that hard to reach the conclusion



Yes, yes they are shady sources. Just like Tibetan exiles, North Korean defectors, are shady sources.

Western sources amplifying shady sources doesn't add extra evidence. You need extra evidence to add evidence.

The police aren't allowed inside my house without a warrant. Does that make me a criminal to not allow them to freely roam? There is something called innocent before proven guilty. You have yet to prove guilt.

Not really hard for people to jump to conclusions. We've seen plenty of "evidence" of this.

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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> I don't think you heard yourself. I will give you a second chance to read your post and edit it.
> 
> You can do better.
> 
> 
> 
> You can make someone suck your dick if you hold their family hostage or point a gun at them. Making them sing praises of you is nothing.
> 
> If you think your propaganda videos showing someone singing praises of China is going to fool anyone, i can only laugh at your thinking.
> 
> Since January 2019 i have been here and not once in your propaganda videos i saw someone praying in mosques or doing anything Islamic.
> 
> But dancing and singing, exactly the thing China is accused of. Anything but Islam is allowed.
> 
> It's like you're not even trying and just posting what is thrown at you. Bad wumao


You yourself posted many anti China propaganda videos against China and is a well known China hater now you accuse others of doing the opposite, how pathetic, people living in Xinjiang enjoy a much better standard of living you can only dream of, Xinjiang public infrastructure is at a level that the whole would envy, those are the basic facts that even China bashing western media can not deny.

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## beijingwalker

*Take a look at Hotan's female SWAT team in Xinjiang*
Most law enforcement officers and soldiers in Xinjiang are local Uighurs themselves, hats off to them for making Xinjiang a very safe, stable and highly prosperous region.


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## beijingwalker

Car sales are booming in Xinjiang, almost all Xinjiang households have private cars now, it's a good time to be a car dealer in Xinjiang now. 
A car dealer's story in Kashgar city, Xinjiang


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Nobody believes your propaganda. Nobody. Even your defenders here defend it by claiming it's against terrorists.l


Lol, you've already got 9 negative rating in just half a year in PDF, and you are calling people to believe you? is there anything more hilarious than this?

onq question, most law enforcement officers and soldiers in Xinjiang are local Uighurs themselves, they are armed with rifles, submachine guns, sniper rifle..., but why not a single of them turned their guns against the government?


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> You got 10 negative ratings, as if ratings mean jack$hit. I got them for Uighurs and speaking against a rotting dictator we had. Proud of them.


I got 10 negative rating for 10 years and my positive ratings outnumber negative ones, you got the same number of negative rating in just half a year and almost no positive ratings, it shows how popular you are in PDF,lol..



fisher1 said:


> How would we know if those Uighurs soldiers and officers didn't gun down a bunch of government officials? And then got raped like rest of the Uighurs.


You guys can have so many unverifiable so called first hand personal accounts of so called persecution, how come you can find a single one in the army and police force? Just one is enough.



fisher1 said:


> As far as the world is concerned, China is a dark hole. We don't know what twisted crap you people do. Whatever little information does come out, it's horrible stuff. Exactly like North Korea and surprise surprise you're allies with NK


What's in you 9 negatives in half year world doesn't concern me, you can live in your own world.


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> This is childish, as if popularity means anything.
> 
> Pakistanis suck up to you, are you really surprised? You've got Pakistan as a slave colony. Of course, i am going to get negative ratings when i speak against the master of Pakistanis.
> 
> I am more popular than you here. I got perverts stalking me wishing for my death, doing takfir on me, reporting my every post, i got mods who hate my guts. Popularity means nothing.
> 
> 
> Because those first hand accounts are real. If all this was fake then there would have been a lot of made up fake stuff which there isn't.
> 
> That's why you're so mad because the allegations are real.
> 
> If there was nothing evil going on, you would just laugh and invite everyone into, earning money off that extra tourism.
> 
> Just like we did when India said they bombed terrorist compound then we invited journalists and media all over the world to see the dead terrorist crow and nothing else.


Haha, enjoy your lone fight here, no one cares about an odd individual like you thinks and believes, I guess more negative rating will be coming for you.

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## beijingwalker

An Uighur college girl and her schoolmates of different ethnicities wish happy birthday to the motherland China and congratulate on PRC's 70th national day on her personal youtube channel.
She is a village girl in southern Xinjiang, in the end of the video she hopes the viewers to subscribe her channel which I did, there are many good videos about this girl's everyday life on her youtube channel, but recently it seems that this girl is trying to sell dates online.


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang injects over 40 bln yuan into poverty relief projects*
Source: Xinhua| 2020-06-17 13:04:57


URUMQI, June 17 (Xinhua) -- Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region has invested more than 40.5 billion yuan (about 5.7 billion U.S. dollars) into poverty alleviation projects this year, local authorities said.

The funds have been injected into 5,286 projects covering multiple areas, including industrial development and employment, said the regional poverty alleviation and development office.

Xinjiang also increased financial support to poverty-stricken households. It has extended loans to 117,800 impoverished households this year, totaling over 3.74 billion yuan.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-06/17/c_139145776.htm


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## beijingwalker

*A tour to "Dove Lane" in Hotan, Xinjiang*
"Dove Lane" in Hotan City, Xinjiang, was once a rundown thoroughfare. Today, tourists flock to this charming street. Explore this former dove trader alley with our reporter


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## beijingwalker

How is a young Chinese communist party's grassroots village level cadre's work and life in rural Xinjiang village. Xi jinping started from this communist party's entry level management position.


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## beijingwalker

Fighting poverty: How a poor village girl's life and fortune had been completely changed with the incredibly fast development of Xinjiang.

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## striver44

fisher1 said:


> Sorry not sorry. Everything is a lie coming from a country that doesn't allow journalists and free media coverage there.
> 
> We have a saying in Pashtu which translates to if you haven't done anything wrong then you won't hide it.
> 
> Allow journalists and free media to visit Xinjiang and Urumqi and show us the mosques and the re-education camps. Else just shut up.
> 
> To idiotic brainwashed Chinese who have eaten ccp propaganda everyday hearing when Winnie the pooh says is ultimate truth but this shit don't fly in the real world, bruh.
> 
> Anyone without any mental retardation can see how evil communists are and how Uighurs are getting fucked literally and figuratively.


Indonesian delegates sent to China actually smells something fishy while visiting Xinjiang, I think @Indos knows that, he posted it once here.

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## beijingwalker

*Turkish journalists praise Xinjiang's fast developement and prosperity*


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## striver44

fisher1 said:


> I know about that news and shared it several times here.
> 
> Everyone knows what's happening to Uighurs but those who support it have an agenda behind it.
> 
> Which is why it is laughable when the same people cry for Kashmiris and look like hypocrites. Oppression is oppression whether it's by China or India, if you support China's oppression but cry about Indias, you're worst than those who don't have a duplicitous morality and are constant in their morals.


those peoples keep defending china actually knows deep in their hearts that there is an oppression among uyghurs in china, but their love for a commie sate is much stronger.

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## striver44

Dear mods why is @fisher1 getting banned? He didn't use any bad language or threatening anybody.

Don't worry I'll replace him while he's gone.

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## Figaro

Naofumi said:


> See, a Sinicized Uighur - I mean an atheist-Mandarin speaking one who loves Xi Jingping is the ideal Uighur for CCP, education is simply another tool for achieving this. The rest of the point rest upon how much of the "brutal" stories are fictitious - I personally believe that there's a kernel of truth in them otherwise it's epistemological nihilism, you may disagree.
> As for the CIA, sure they are involved too but that doesn't negate anything I said above.​


I mean honestly China is doing what other great powers, including the United States, did to tame their frontiers in the past, which was forcefully or coercively assimilate people deemed a threat. I think the Chinese government knows the short term losses of doing so via these camps pale to the long term gains incurred by this. And history has shown that these types of measures usually succeed in the longer term, albeit at the expense of the local culture.


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## beijingwalker

Everyone takes full advantage of Xinjiang's peace and great prosperity and enjoy their lives to the fullest in Xinjiang.


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang youth warn enemies to stay away from China*
Xinjiang youth warn enemies and terrorists not to underestimate China and stay away from her and if they come to mess with China they'll be certainly doomed.


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## beijingwalker

Chinese ID cards series on Tik Tok , Xinjiang series.

Xinjiang girl proudly pulls out her Chinese ID card
"Who are you"? 
"Chinese" 
"How can you prove it"? 
She pulls out her Chinese citizen national ID card.

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## beijingwalker

*Uighur girl shows you that going to a shopping mall in Xinjiang is not all about shopping.*


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## beijingwalker

*Uighur girls sing "Ode to the Motherland": 歌唱祖国*





*Lyrics (original)*
Our flags are waving in the wind
With the glorious praise of victory
Ode to our gracious motherland
Marching toward prosperity from today
Ode to our gracious motherland
Marching toward the prosperity from today
Over the mountains, across the plains
Cross the Yangtze and Huang River
Tis’ the dear home of ours,
the grand and beautiful land of China
Hail the Chinese people stand up from today
We are united, affectionate, and strong as steel!

Our flags are waving in the wind
With the glorious praise of victory
Ode to our gracious motherland
Marching toward prosperity from today
Ode to our gracious motherland
Marching toward the prosperity from today
We work tirelessly, we share bravery
Splendid is our Five-thousands years history
How many challenges we have encountered
To gain today's liberation
We love peace, we love our motherland
But we pledge to tear any aggression

Our flags are waving in the wind
With the glorious praise of victory
Ode to our gracious motherland
Marching toward prosperity from today
Ode to our gracious motherland
Marching toward the prosperity from today
People's republic is thriving
As the oriental rising sun
Great leader Mao is pointing the path toward victory
Our future is bright and fruitful
We the people will enjoy her plenteousness!

Our flags are waving in the wind
With the glorious praise of victory
Ode to our gracious motherland
Marching toward prosperity from today
Ode to our gracious motherland
Marching toward the prosperity from today!

They are kind of out of tune, not a good singing, here is a better one.


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## beijingwalker

*Uighur girls sing"My motherland and I"













My Motherland and I*
My country and I are never apart
Wherever I may be, I'll sing a song of praise
I sing of every high mountain, I sing of every river,
I sing of curling smoke, little villages and ruts in the road,
My dearest country, I'll aways be by your side.
You talk to me from a mother's heart.
My country and I are like sea and waves, the waves is the child of the sea
The sea nurtures the wave
Every time the sea smiles, I become a dimple of whirlpool
I share the worries and the happiness of the sea,
My dearest country, you are the sea that never dries up,
You bring me clear and gentle tides like a song in my heart


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## beijingwalker

Due to Xinjiang's peace , stability and great prosperity along with the stunning natural beauty, it attracts *300* *million* tourists every year in recent years, roughly one third of Xinjiang's GDP now comes from tourism.

Xinjiang is very famous for its unique head slide Uighur dance style in China, so many tourists try to mimic this dance style and interact when they see Uighur girls when traveling in Xinjiang.


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## beijingwalker

*Uighur girl: We are Chinese beauties.*


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## striver44

*U.S. Seizes $800k Chinese Shipment of Human Hair Products on Suspicion of Human Rights Violations*



Mairead McArdle
,
National Review•July 2, 2020







U.S. Customs and Border Protection on Wednesday seized a Chinese shipment of nearly 13 tons of wigs and other human hair products suspected of being produced by forced labor in Xinjiang.

U.S. officials at the Port of New York/Newark detained the shipment of products and accessories suspected to be made with human hair, citing “potential human right abuses of forced child labor and imprisonment.”

“The production of these goods constitutes a very serious human rights violation, and the detention order is intended to send a clear and direct message to all entities seeking to do business with the United States that illicit and inhumane practices will not be tolerated in U.S. supply chains,” read a statement from Brenda Smith, executive assistant commissioner of the CBP Office of Trade.

“It is absolutely essential that American importers ensure that the integrity of their supply chain meets the humane and ethical standards expected by the American government and by American consumers,” Smith said.

Federal law prohibits importing goods produced by forced labor.

On June 17, CBP issued a detention order for imports from Lop County Meixin Hair Product Co. Ltd. in southern Xinjiang, based on “information that reasonably indicated” that the company’s products are manufactured with prison labor as well as forced labor involving excessive overtime, withholding of wages, and restriction of movement. The order requires shipments from the company to be detained at ports nationwide.

“If this highly suspicious, 13-ton shipment of human hair indeed turns out to be linked to the Uighur concentration camps, then this is a new low — even for the Chinese Communist Party — and they will have to answer to the world community for their actions,” National Security Council spokesperson John Ullyot told _Axios._

Since 2017, the Chinese government has detained an estimated one million or more Uighur Muslims and other minorities in “re-education camps” around Xinjiang, which are designed to instill a sense of loyalty to the government. Around 80,000 Uighurs have been forced to work in factories, the Australian Strategic Policy Institute estimated.

China claims that the detention camps are for voluntary education and training and are used to combat extremism, but Chinese government documents leaked last year detail how the facilities are run with extreme control over their residents.

https://news.yahoo.com/u-seizes-800k-chinese-shipment-173940513.html

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## YeBeWarned

striver44 said:


> products *suspected* of being made through forced labor in Xinjiang

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## Dalit

What is wrong with using hair? LOL Putting something to good use is rewarding.

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## waz

Guys let go of the personal abuse. 
Anyway merged with the sticky thread.

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## jaibi

Closed for clean up.


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## jaibi

Please, keep this thread clean and if there's any abuse then report instead of engaging with it.

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## Raphael

striver44 said:


> *U.S. Seizes $800k Chinese Shipment of Human Hair Products on Suspicion of Human Rights Violations*
> https://news.yahoo.com/u-seizes-800k-chinese-shipment-173940513.html



@Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @dbc 

Another case of USians trying to shirk responsibility and blame others for their problems. Demand for weaves only arises because of centuries of systemic racism and white supremacist beauty standards that brainwashed US black women into believing that their natural nappy-textured hair was "ugly", and that they couldn't be pretty without using fake hair to emulate the straight hair on white women. Nothing to do with Uygurs, and everything to with the ugly legacy of being a racist, colonialist, imperialist country.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Raphael said:


> @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @dbc
> 
> Another case of USians trying to shirk responsibility and blame others for their problems. Demand for weaves only arises because of centuries of systemic racism and white supremacist beauty standards that brainwashed US black women into believing that their natural nappy-textured hair was "ugly", and that they couldn't be pretty without using fake hair to emulate the straight hair on white women. Nothing to do with Uygurs, and everything to with the ugly legacy of being a racist, colonialist, imperialist country.



This is truly one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen on PDF.

Demand for hair products is global...and it isn't just for American black women. The USSR was the primary source of human hair and that was big with Jewish women.

As for black women and hair extensions even women in Africa do it and most have never met an American. So pulling out the white racism card is just stupid. *More likely* China's recent influence in Africa is brainwashing black women there into buying Chinese products. Look who is reporting and happily promoting it...





*Huge market in Nigeria for weaves made in China*
*CGTN Africa (China Global Television Network)*





*Hair manufacturers vie for a cut of Kenya's $250 million market*
*CGTN Africa (China Global Television Network)*





The sad reality is impoverished Chinese women are an exploited source. If they can find a cheap source...they can also easily find cheap labor.


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## beijingwalker

*Farewell to "sour" life: Cleaner water for arid Xinjiang*
Farewell, sour, salty puddle water! Rural residents in Xinjiang now have access to clean drinking water thanks to a water project in the arid northwestern Chinese region.

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## beijingwalker

*Western reports of organ harvesting in Xinjiang run contrary to facts: China's top organ donation expert*
By Liu Xin and Zhao Yusha Source:Global Times Published: 2020/7/4 23:32:49

A new wave of accusations against China "harvesting organs" emerged recently, and by adding minorities in the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region to the latest "victims" list, some anti-China forces and Western media are attempting to use these unfounded reports to escalate slandering against China, observers said. "You will never wake someone who is pretending to be asleep," China's top expert on organ transplant said, as these lies do not accord with principles and practices on organ transplant and donations in China. 

Following some Western media reports from the China Tribunal which accused the Chinese government of "harvesting organs from Falun Gong practitioners" and Uygurs "detained in camps" since June 2019, VICE magazine's France version has released a new report on the same topic on June 19, offering more so-called "evidence." 

By digging into the VICE story and the series of reports on "China harvesting organs" from Falun Gong practitioners and Uygurs, the Global Times has found out that such claims are lies interwoven by members of the Falun Gong cult, separatists from Xinjiang and overseas anti-China forces with the purpose to further paint China as a devil mistreating minorities in Xinjiang, to smear the country's organ transplantation and donation system and its anti-terrorism work in Xinjiang, and to instigate the international community to further pressure China.

The VICE story was released in its France version on June 19, in which it claimed that Xinjiang authorities are taking organs from "detainees" in the vocational education and training centers. One "evidence" it gives is that since 2016, the Chinese government has launched a comprehensive medical check-up in the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. Tests are "only compulsory" for Uygur inhabitants aged from 12 to 65, it claims.

However, the Global Times learned from different departments and hospitals in Xinjiang and confirmed with local residents, that the medical examination project starting in 2016 covered residents from all ethnic groups. 

The project includes checks on diseases of hepatitis, tuberculosis and echinococcosis to help find diseases early. The early detection of diseases through regular medical checks could help residents get early treatment and decrease poverty incidence for illnesses. By August 2019, the region had invested 4.068 billion yuan in the project.

Many residents from Uygur, Han and other ethnic groups reached by the Global Times confirmed that the medical examinations they had were nothing unusual other than medical check-ups. They felt it was absurd and ridiculous upon hearing some foreign media linking a project to such horrifying accusations of organ harvesting. 

Another reason listed by VICE to support its accusations against China is the country has the shortest waiting list time - around 12 days for a transplant while many people in China don't wish to donate their organs after death. Therefore, they believe that organ "harvesting from Uygurs" makes up for the high demand.

However, reports on the yearly numbers of China's organ transplantation operations nationwide, and the Global Times' interviews with scholars and experts in the field show how shallow and biased the VICE report is regarding China's organ transplantation and donation system. 


*Transparent system*

There are about 300,000 patients who suffer from liver, kidney, heart and lung failure on average annually in China, whilst more than 22,000 organ transplantation operations were conducted last year and the year before, Huang Jiefu, head of the China National Organ Donation and Transplantation Committee and chairman of the China Organ Transplantation Development Foundation, told the Global Times.

Although the number of organ donations in China has increased in recent years and there are still gaps between supply and demand. "Sometimes a patient has to wait one or two years to get a suitable organ," said Huang.

Chen Jingyu, a well-known expert in the lung transplant field and deputy head of the Wuxi People's Hospital, told the Global Times previously that differences exist regarding the supply and demand for different organs, as heart donations are comparatively few, but lungs are quite common - only 6 percent of donated lungs were used.

Some patients in China also receive organ donations from their relatives. Public data shows in 2017, more than 16,000 transplantation operations were conducted and 86 percent of these organs were from other donors and 14 percent from relatives of the patients.

Back in 2010, China started a pilot reform regarding deceased organ donations. In January 2015, China banned the use of executed prisoners' organs, making voluntary donations the only legitimate channel. 

Organs would be allocated through the China Organ Transplant Response System and surgeons are not allowed to change the system or use organs not allocated via the system or from unclear sources. 

Chen told the Global Times that China's smart organ allocation system allots organs properly and according to an individual's situation. Between two patients, one suffering from a severe illness and has to use a ventilator, and one with relatively mild symptoms, the organ will be distributed to the former.

The basic working principles of allocating organs in China also act as evidence to debunk rumors of "taking organs from Uygurs." One principle is that organs getting from one place to another should be firstly distributed to hospitals in the same place to ensure the success rate and avoid complications during transplantation. 

As Xinjiang is located at the northwestern corner of China, flights to other Chinese cities from Xinjiang usually take more than two hours. For example, it takes 4.5 hours to fly from Urumqi to Beijing and more than 5 hours to Shanghai. According to Xinjiang Daily, Xinjiang announced to start comprehensive work on organ donations from 2013. A total of 55 donations were made and there were 6,700 voluntary donors as of August 2019. 

"You will never wake up someone who is pretending to be asleep," Huang said, noting that rumors regarding China taking organs from Uygurs has long existed. Such fabricated reports always lack solid evidence to support their claims, so there's no need to take them seriously, he said.

"But with China being more open to the outside world, we invited foreign organizations to visit China, to see with their own eyes how China is developing its organ transplantation system. The truth lies in people's hearts."

In the past few years, China has also increased promotion of organ donation among its people. According to data from the website on organ donation established by the China Organ Transplantation Development Foundation, more than 1.3 million people have been registered as voluntary organ donors.

*Closed loop of lies*

VICE's story is the latest push to sell the horrific idea of the "Chinese government harvesting organs from Uygurs." Starting from June 2019, Western media have gone wild with similar claims. 

In June 2019, the China Tribunal published a report claiming that the Chinese government has been "systematically executing and harvesting organs of Falun Gong members" and Muslim Uygurs.

Although the China Tribunal describes itself as an "independent tribunal into forced organ harvesting from prisoners of conscience in China," a report from US media outlet The Grayzone revealed that the tribunal and the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China (ETAC) have close relations to the Epoch Times, a far-right media arm of the Falun Gong cult.

ETAC, which initiated the China Tribunal claims itself to be an international nonprofit organization, with its headquarters in Australia.

Falun Gong is an illegal cult that has been banned by the Chinese government. It is also an anti-China political organization that has used unscrupulous measures to discredit China, and the Epoch Times acts as its rumor spreading machine.

Campbell Fraser, an international organ trafficking researcher from Australia, told the Global Times in an interview in April 2017 that a number of Western politicians, academics and lawyers have used Falun Gong to fulfill their political objectives against the Chinese government. 

It seems that to add more ingredients to their long-lasting lies, The Falun Gong cult drags liars and separatists from Xinjiang and more anti-China forces into their clique. 

The VICE story cited Gulbahar Jelilova, who claimed she was sent to Xinjiang's vocational education and training centers and heard about people's organs being harvested.

However, the Global Times learned from relevant departments and various sources that Gulbahar is a Kazakh national and was detained by police for allegedly financing terrorist activities. She had never been to any vocational education and training center during her stay in Xinjiang. 

Erkin Sidick, advisor to the World Uyghur Congress (WUC), has also been mentioned by VICE and some Western media as one of the first to have alerted outsiders to the "existence of the Chinese government selling organs of Uygurs." 

The self-proclaimed "peaceful" organization, the WUC, has been revealed as a US-backed right-wing regime-change network seeking the "fall of China." It has become a political tool for the US' new Cold War and media campaign against China. 

"It has become a closed loop for fabricating, spreading and hyping up lies regarding Xinjiang - overseas separatists, NGOs and anti-China forces create new rumors and lies, Western media report and hype them up, Western politicians use them to make accusations against China. And the practice has been escalated to a new level recently," Wang Jiang, an associate research fellow at the Institute of Law at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, told the Global Times. 

Wang said that these anti-China forces aim to smear China but their efforts seem in vain as the majority of countries in the international community express support regarding China's stance on Xinjiang. 

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1193505.shtml


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang Urumqi Olympic Arena ready to open*
Xinhua
20:25 UTC+8, 2020-07-05 
Northwestern China's leading indoor arena, the Xinjiang Urumqi Olympic Arena, is ready to open for competitions, an official confirmed to Xinhua.

The new arena is scheduled to be the home of the Chinese Basketball Association side Xinjiang Flying Tigers next season, and is composed of multiple layers and floors, with a seating capacity of 12,852.

"It has one of the largest center-hung LED screens in Asia, and we use a smart management system to operate the whole arena, giving visitors better service experience," said Wang Shengjun, the director of Urumqi Olympic Arena.

The venue will also be enable to host table tennis, volleyball and a range of other events, showcasing its unique ability to meet the technical and operational requirements of different competitions and entertainment acts.

"It's amazing to play at arena like this, and its modern facilities provide more convenience for both sides' players," said Abdusalam Abdurexit, the star forward for the Xinjiang CBA side.

The new arena is a part of Urumqi Olympic Sports Center project, with a total cost of 3.8 billion yuan (about 538 millions U.S. dollars), and features a natatorium, track and field hall, a fitness center, public park, and a 30,000-seat stadium.
https://www.shine.cn/news/nation/2007051508/






Ice Hockey and skating rink

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## Nan Yang

Viet said:


> That’s gigantic but who will visit these places?
> 
> Certainly not foreigners.
> 
> I just look after the percentage of foreigners in China.
> 
> China has a population of 1.4 billion people. But only 300,000 foreigners with resident visa for up to 5 years. Not permanent visa. They can be expelled when visa expires. That is a percentage after 0.
> 0.02 percent to be exact. Since the founding of PRC, in total 35 "Permanent Residence Certificates" and 277 "Certificates of Resettlement" were issued to foreigners in Beijing.
> 
> 99,98 percent are chinese.
> 
> In short, millions of chinese settle down all over the world but they themselves make foreigners difficult to impossible to settle down in China.
> 
> Do you think China plays fair?


Your country your rules.


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## Zsari

Viet said:


> That’s gigantic but who will visit these places?
> 
> Certainly not foreigners.
> 
> I just look after the percentage of foreigners in China.
> 
> China has a population of 1.4 billion people. But only 300,000 foreigners with resident visa for up to 5 years. Not permanent visa. They can be expelled when visa expires. That is a percentage after 0.
> 0.02 percent to be exact. Since the founding of PRC, in total 35 "Permanent Residence Certificates" and 277 "Certificates of Resettlement" were issued to foreigners in Beijing.
> 
> 99,98 percent are chinese.
> 
> In short, millions of chinese settle down all over the world but they themselves make foreigners difficult to impossible to settle down in China.
> 
> Do you think China plays fair?



China has been receiving over 30 million foreign tourists per year, and its domestic audience alone can fill all the stadiums. You are worrying to much.

And no, each country set its immigration policy based on its own interests and agenda. Attracting other country's citizens is not an act of kindness that somehow China should reciprocate. You are confusing accepting immigrants with refugees, which China did accept plenty of, especially those from Vietnam.

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## beijingwalker

*Wellness of people in remote areas safeguarded in Xinjiang*

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## beijingwalker

*US Media*:
In Xinjiang the authorities have separated nearly half a million children from their families, aiming to instill loyalty to China and the Communist Party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/28/world/asia/china-xinjiang-children-boarding-schools.html

Xinjiang Forcing Thousands Of Muslim Children Into 'Prison-Like' Schools
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdof...rom-families-in-xinjiang-report/#667aa2ad1d1a



A recent New York Times article about northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region claimed that over half a million children have been placed in boarding schools, where they are taught the Chinese language with an emphasis on patriotism and loyalty to the Communist Party of China. Sounds quite sensational, right? But away from the Western propaganda, what is the real condition in these schools?

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## GHALIB

beijingwalker said:


> *US Media*:
> In Xinjiang the authorities have separated nearly half a million children from their families, aiming to instill loyalty to China and the Communist Party.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/28/world/asia/china-xinjiang-children-boarding-schools.html
> 
> Xinjiang Forcing Thousands Of Muslim Children Into 'Prison-Like' Schools
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdof...rom-families-in-xinjiang-report/#667aa2ad1d1a
> 
> 
> 
> A recent New York Times article about northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region claimed that over half a million children have been placed in boarding schools, where they are taught the Chinese language with an emphasis on patriotism and loyalty to the Communist Party of China. Sounds quite sensational, right? But away from the Western propaganda, what is the real condition in these schools?



why children are kept away from parents ?

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## bsruzm

GHALIB said:


> why children are kept away from parents ?


"aiming to instill loyalty to China and the Communist Party."

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## KediKesenFare3

GHALIB said:


> why children are kept away from parents ?


They try to brainwash them into Communist fascists.

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## arjunk

If we tried something like this on Karachi public schools, 99% of the money would go to bilawals pockets and the remaining 1% to separatist groups (who will set up radicalisation camps and call them schools, so jeeay bhutto for helping build schools!)

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## gangsta_rap

KediKesenFare said:


> Communist fascists

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## Agha Sher

Communists, trying to erase an entire ethnic group of a dozen million people.

These fools basically confirmed that they had abducted half a million children from their parents with their stupid propaganda.

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## Beast

Agha Sher said:


> Dirty Han communists, trying to erase an entire ethnic group of a dozen million people.
> 
> These fools basically confirmed that they had abducted half a million children from their parents with their stupid propaganda.


Half a million? Shall be 50million Uighur kids abducted to sound more sensational. 

Oh wait, there are only 10 million Uighur.

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## T-123456

The intelligence these trolls have is unreal.
The original tittle is without the question marks.
@AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz

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## zhxy

Beast said:


> Half a million? Shall be 50million Uighur kids abducted to sound more sensational.
> 
> Oh wait, there are only 10 million Uighur.



Turkey and the United States will support Uighur rebels. XinJiang will be independent. What will happen then. Uighurs are cruel and brutal, they will rape and massacre countless Hui, Han ... and other ethnic minorities.

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## beijingwalker

bsruzm said:


> "aiming to instill loyalty to China and the Communist Party."


Don't you have boarding schools in Turkey? Tens of millions children go to boarding schools in China, it's not something unique to any provinces and cities. Didn't you watch the video which clearly explained Xinjiang boarding schools are mainly for children from poor families and they provide free tuition, free accommodation, free meals and free healthcare, what's would be applauded as an example for taking care of the citizens is depicted as another sin of China.



Agha Sher said:


> Communists, trying to erase an entire ethnic group of a dozen million people.
> 
> These fools basically confirmed that they had abducted half a million children from their parents with their stupid propaganda.


Do Afghan government provides for your children?

Even Xinjiang children can enjoy 15 years free eduction from kingdergarten to high school with everything is free, families living in poverty still face difficulties to provide their kids with basic needs, in order to ensure that every single child in Xinjiang can finish at least 15 years compulsory education and zero dropouts, Xinjiang now provide education funds which cover all poor families in Xinjiang.

Preschool kids from poor families will be given 2800￥ （400$) per kid every year, (Xinjiang's 15 years free education includes 3 preschool kingdergartan years, 6 primary school years, 3 middle school years and 3 high school years)

From primary school to high school, all fees will be covered by the government, for poor families cash support will be provided on case by case basis.

Graduate students from poor famliies will receive up to 29500￥ （4300$) financial help, doctorate students will get up to 45000￥（6500$).

The govenment solemn commitment is not letting one child drop out in their school years in Xinjiang.

*新疆对家庭困难学生资助全覆盖*
2020年06月30日 00:0
为了使贫困学生充分享有公平的教育机会，阻断贫困代际传递，新疆通过“奖、助、贷、勤、补、免”多位一体的资助政策，在制度上保障“不让一名学生因家庭经济困难而失学”。

记者从新疆维吾尔自治区教育厅了解到，目前，国家和自治区已经建立了以政府为主导、学校和社会积极参与的覆盖学前教育到研究生教育的学生资助政策体系。

在学前教育阶段，新疆对全区农村（含县城）学前三年幼儿入园学生给予年均2800元的经费保障；在义务教育阶段，实施“两免一补”政策，免除义务教育阶段学杂费和教科书费，给予家庭经济困难寄宿生生活补助。

在高中阶段，新疆实施“三免一补”政策，免除符合条件的家庭经济困难学生学杂费、住宿费、教材费，并给予国家助学金；在高等教育阶段，通过“奖、助、贷、勤、补、免”多位一体的资助体系，保障家庭经济困难学生顺利入学并完成学业；在研究生教育阶段，硕士研究生最多可享受2.95万元的奖助学金，博士研究生最多可享受4.85万元的国家助学金。

从去年秋季学期起，新疆又将建档立卡学生、家庭经济困难残疾学生、农村低保家庭学生、农村特困救助供养学生等四类家庭经济困难非寄宿生纳入生活补助范围。
https://tech.sina.com.cn/roll/2020-06-30/doc-iircuyvk1095625.shtml

School meals are free in Xinjiang school, all food is closely monitored by the government to make sure they are clean, healthy with all required balanced nurishments needed for kids of their age.

To supplement the nutrients, the government also provides free snacks, fruits ,dairy and eggs to the students during their class breaks in school.

Free school meals and snack breaks supplements in rural Xinjiang.


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## Agha Sher

beijingwalker said:


> Do Afghan government provides for your children?



dumb chink, does it look like I live in Afghanistan? 

Keep that cheap propaganda for yourself, han fascist.

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## beijingwalker

Agha Sher said:


> dumb chink


@WebMaster racist term reported.



Agha Sher said:


> does it look like I live in Afghanistan?
> .


It doesn't matter where you live, can you just anwser me that question?

*What changes have boarding schools brought to students in Xinjiang?*


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## Agha Sher

beijingwalker said:


> @WebMaster racist term reported.
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter where you live, can you just anwser me that question?



Retard, why would I care whether Afghanistan provides for my children? Your question has no relevance, communist.

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## beijingwalker

As the video shows, Xinjiang offers 15 years free education(kingdergarten to high school) free food, free during the break snacks and dairy, free accommodation, free school shuttle service, free healthcare.

Xinjiang provides 15 years free education from kindergarten to high school, schools also provide free school meals and dairy, school kids need more nourishment to grow well, so schools also have snack breaks and students can eat some snacks (mostly bread, eggs and milk) provided by the government.

Those are ethnic Tajik teens enjoy their break and snacks in school.







Agha Sher said:


> Retard, why would I care whether Afghanistan provides for my children? Your question has no relevance, communist.


Case in point, I know you care nothing about your children, we do. Now I m good.


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## Agha Sher

beijingwalker said:


> As the video shows, Xinjiang offers 15 years free education(kingdergarten to high school) free food, free during the break snacks and dairy, free accommodation, free school shuttle service, free healthcare.
> 
> Xinjiang provides 15 years free education from kindergarten to high school, schools also provide free school meals and dairy, school kids need more nourishment to grow well, so schools also have snack breaks and students can eat some snacks (mostly bread, eggs and milk) provided by the government.
> 
> Those are ethnic Tajik teens enjoy their break and snacks in school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Case in point, I know you care nothing about your children, we do. Now I m good.



You are not good. You are retarded, communist.

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## beijingwalker

Agha Sher said:


> You are not good. You are retarded, communist.


Ok, whatever you say , sir. Lol..


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## King Julien

New normal for the world? 




I got this video recommend on yt cuz of @beijingwalker which he claims to be 'fake'


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## beijingwalker

King Julien said:


> New normal for the world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got this video recommend on yt cuz of @beijingwalker which he claims to be 'fake'


A clear fake copy of US soldiers torturing Iraqi POWs, as fake as fakes get, Chinese prisons don't allow such plays. and prisoners in China wear prison uniforms, not their casual T shirts, also police in China don't go around with their hats missing.

Hopefully they could pay some more money and hire some professionals and do a better fake next time.


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## WebMaster

beijingwalker said:


> @WebMaster racist term reported.
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter where you live, can you just anwser me that question?
> 
> *What changes have boarding schools brought to students in Xinjiang?*


Please use the report button and don't mention mods for reports.


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## Nash58

beijingwalker said:


> *US Media*:
> In Xinjiang the authorities have separated nearly half a million children from their families, aiming to instill loyalty to China and the Communist Party.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/28/world/asia/china-xinjiang-children-boarding-schools.html
> 
> Xinjiang Forcing Thousands Of Muslim Children Into 'Prison-Like' Schools
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdof...rom-families-in-xinjiang-report/#667aa2ad1d1a
> 
> 
> 
> A recent New York Times article about northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region claimed that over half a million children have been placed in boarding schools, where they are taught the Chinese language with an emphasis on patriotism and loyalty to the Communist Party of China. Sounds quite sensational, right? But away from the Western propaganda, what is the real condition in these schools?





beijingwalker said:


> *US Media*:
> In Xinjiang the authorities have separated nearly half a million children from their families, aiming to instill loyalty to China and the Communist Party.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/28/world/asia/china-xinjiang-children-boarding-schools.html
> 
> Xinjiang Forcing Thousands Of Muslim Children Into 'Prison-Like' Schools
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdof...rom-families-in-xinjiang-report/#667aa2ad1d1a
> 
> 
> 
> A recent New York Times article about northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region claimed that over half a million children have been placed in boarding schools, where they are taught the Chinese language with an emphasis on patriotism and loyalty to the Communist Party of China. Sounds quite sensational, right? But away from the Western propaganda, what is the real condition in these schools?



Link in english should also be provided instead of chinese only. With english link this video can be shared with many english speaking viewers.


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## Jun



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## beijingwalker

*The Point: Debunking myths on China 'forcing Uygur birth control'*

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## Jun



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## KediKesenFare3

No one is going to believe you. 

You did the same thing with your very own people for decades, why on earth would Beijing spare the Uighur people from this barbaric population control methods? Sudden change of heart?

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## Nasr

I do not think that China would jepordize it's relations with the Muslim World, considering that there are 2 billion Muslims on this planet. Surely the Chinese people are better than the Zionist Western powers who brutally persecuted nation's around the world.

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## Jun

This is video is not for China-Haters, the wise people will be able to judge who's the liar base on information from both sides.

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## Muhammed45

Too much BS being Posted about China these days. All because of "Made in China" brand that West hates the most. In the eyes of westerners China has no right to have it's own brand, they should only Ask West for the required technology. In the eyes of Western colonizer Chinese has no right to have more advanced technology compared to Western One.

Hence all the propaganda against Chinese. China has had this Policy of birth control for decades implemented on all Chinese states. Not only Uyghur Muslims. The Policy of 1 child for every family. But all of a sudden West remembers that China has enforced this law. All because China doesn't want to be a copier of Western technology and wants to Launch made in China brand. Huawei, 5G, etc.

USA is a terrorist state which never cares about Human Rights. But its true to say that They are the main human Rights abuser.

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## Jun



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## Jun

The one child policy was never apply to the minorities in China, it only applied to the Han Chinese. The One Child Policy ended in China year 2015, and Han Chinese now can have two children in urban and three children in rural under the new policy. For equality, the minorities also adopted this new policy in 2017.

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## beijingwalker

KediKesenFare said:


> No one is going to believe you.



Who are you? Speaking for the whole humanity? China alone is one fifth of the humanity.

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## KediKesenFare3

beijingwalker said:


> Who are you? Speaking for the whole humanity? China alone is one fifth of the humanity.


I'm talking for the majority of Muslims, Christians and Hindus.

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## beijingwalker

KediKesenFare said:


> I'm talking for the majority of Muslims, Christians and Hindus.


All Muslim countries were on China's side last time when voting took place in UN, and based on the fact that Turkey's relationship with most Muslim countries is very strained, you can't really speak for the Muslim world, China has better relationship with the Muslim world than Turkey does.

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang: Separating fact from fiction in recent media reports*
14:04, 11-Jul-2020

The U.S. has just announced sanctions and visa restrictions in response to so-called ongoing human rights violations and abuses in Xinjiang. And an Associated Press report published on June 29 claims the Chinese government is taking measures to cut birth rates among Uygurs and other minorities as part of a campaign to curb its Muslim population.

China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs has called the accusations "groundless."

A bit of background: Family planning was introduced in China in the 1970s. It has been the shared responsibility of citizens and the whole society to help lift the quality of life more rapidly by limiting the number of newborns.

In order to preserve ethnic diversity, however, ethnic minorities including the Uygur people, had always enjoyed preferential population policies.

In the four decades between 1978 and 2018, the Uygur population in Xinjiang doubled, from 5.6 million to 11.7 million. Besides Uygurs, the population of each of the top five ethnic minorities in Xinjiang has more or less doubled too.

In July 2017, Xinjiang adopted new measures in line with those for the rest of the country, as China rolled out what's known as the second-child policy. Now Han families are allowed to have the same number of children as their Uygur counterparts: two in the city, three in the countryside. Yet increased education and socioeconomic development have also resulted in lower birth rates across the board in Xinjiang.

There has been significant progress in the protection of women's rights in Xinjiang in general. In 2003, the mortality rate for mothers was 163 per 100,000. By 2018, that rate had fallen to 27 per 100,000. In 1950, Xinjiang had 3,000 ethnic minority cadres. By 2018, that number rose 143 times to 430,000. Half of them are women.

But when you read recent reports on Xinjiang, many of these details have been left out. Instead, the articles opt for a narrative of imagination and speculation, at best.

On June 29, a so-called investigative report published by the AP made some sensational accusations against the Chinese government regarding "forced birth control" in Xinjiang, allegedly targeting the Uygur population. These are serious accusations on the order of genocide as this report quotes a scholar at Newcastle University in the UK, "These are direct means of genetically reducing the Uygur population."

But underneath the façade of seemingly persuasive sensationalism lies the usual gimmicks of bad journalism on top of a political agenda meant to spread misinformation and disinformation about the Chinese system and leadership.

The article claims to be based on government statistics and documents and interviews with 30 "witnesses". Yet it soon becomes clear that* the article is mostly based on a report authored by Adrian Zenz, a German "researcher" who popularized the idea that one million people were locked up in Xinjiang based on accounts of some eight people. *His latest report on the birthrate in Xinjiang was funded by the Jamestown Foundation, a conservative think tank based in Washington DC.

One only needs to take a quick read of his report in order to find…well, more questions than answers.

For a research report to be credible, certain academic standards should be observed. Evidence must be solid, for instance, the argument sound. But in his report, one just stumbles a tad too often.

For instance, he claims that _"Most recently, Uygur regions appear to conceal (birth rate) data, indicating its increasing sensitivity. … For the first time in about two decades, Kashgar Prefecture's 2019 annual report does not divulge birth, death, or natural population growth rates… The reason for this is apparent: Kashgar's population declined between 2018 and 2019. While this could be due to out-migration, it might also be caused by extremely low birth rates."_

Can you believe your ears? "This is apparent"…Such sentences should never have been the language of a researcher! Simply because such details are missing in one annual report, could any serious scholar reach the conclusion that this must have been the result of a forced birth control campaign?

Zenz himself couldn't exclude "out-migration" as a factor either. So the reason is "apparent" except that he is only speculating.

In short, it doesn't take a doctoral mind to conclude that Zenz's so-called research is very problematic, unable to withstand scrutiny in a court of law.

Can any country in the world swallow such accusations?

According to media reports, China is considering suing Zenz for libel.

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-07-...in-recent-media-reports-S26kn9ZBok/index.html


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## beijingwalker

She was celebrating surpassing 1 million subscribers mark for her social media channel yesterday.

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## Indos

I still remember Beijing Walker has started to post her Youtube channel when her videos only have less than 50 views

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## beijingwalker

Indos said:


> I still remember Beijing Walker has started to post her Youtube channel when her videos only have less than 50 views


She started her channel only one and half years ago but quickly built up her subscribers base.


*Two Uighur high school besties live stream their lives in Xinjiang*
One girl studies in Beijing and many of her classmates asked her about Xinjiang, she found it's hard to describe Xinjiang in words and came up with the idea of live streaming Xinjiang's daily life so that people can know her hometown better. With this idea she reached out to one of her besties in Urumqi and her friend also believed that's a very good idea so they started this live streaming this July.

They didn't expect much at first with just the simple goal of promoting Xinjiang and letting more people know their hometown better, yet their streaming was quickly getting popular and after just a couple of months they got 200000 followers and their videos had been played almost 5 million times on Chinese social media by September.

They are still high school students and we don't know what they are going to do after suddenly becoming social media influencer 网红 .

*新疆姐妹花直播带你游新疆，美景、美食、颜值，齐了！*
2018-09-06 11:53 来源：都市消费晨报
都市消费晨报讯(记者 刘萌萌)“今天我会送大家一些从新疆霍尔果斯带回来的特色礼物,希望喜欢的网友能和我互动起来。”9月5日16时,和往常一样,“安妮古丽”开始了最新一期的直播。





古丽·阿布都许库

　　“安妮古丽”是近日在网络上火爆的头条号，如今已有近20万粉丝，发布的30余个短视频总播放量超过460万次，引来众多网友的关注。翻看“安妮古丽”的头条号，记者发现，超过15万次播放量的视频有9个，其中，《新疆美女路边卖新疆蟠桃，10块钱可以买一筐?真的是便宜呀！》、《新疆美女带你去新疆农场，农场里果香四溢，这些水果你都见过吗？》、《新疆葡萄太好吃？小美女摘了一大筐还不够，看完我都想吃了！》三条视频播放量都将近30万次，视频内容让网友大呼“新疆太美了”。








视频中，随着欢快的新疆音乐，美食、美景一一出镜,有着西王母传说的天山天池、吐鲁番的葡萄园、哈萨克族特色村庄、万亩蟠桃园、最美独库公路、达坂城区西沟乡雪菊采摘基地、那拉提花海……这些标志性的新疆美景再加上新疆大盘鸡、新疆大饼、烤肉等美食燃爆网络，不少网友留言：“口水出来了,要去新疆吃羊肉串!”“哎呦,不错哦！快来新疆带你嗨！”“音乐好听,我都连听了好几遍了！”“好惊艳，安妮唱歌好听，古丽跳舞好看，两个新疆小姐姐好美！”

　　“安妮古丽”头条号的主播是两个新疆姑娘，头条号以直播和短视频的形式将大美新疆的美食、美景、民俗风情等推荐给外地网友，提起“安妮古丽”，安妮和古丽说：“很荣幸能获得网友的认可，也很开心能推荐自己的家乡。”

　　*闺蜜携手成直播红人*

　　安妮名叫安妮·孜热，是新疆艺术学院附属中学的一名高三艺考生，今年18岁。提起“安妮古丽”的创建，她说是源于一次偶然，“我高中是在内地上学的，身边有来自广东、江苏、河南等全国各地的同学和朋友，他们都不了解新疆，经常问我新疆是什么样的？每次都解释不清，我就把自己在家乡拍的视频和照片给他们看，效果很好，因为我有做直播的经验，我就想为什么不干脆围绕新疆的美食、美景和生活做直播呢，既能把家乡推介出去，还能锻炼自己在镜头前的经验，多好呀。”安妮说，有了这个想法，她找到了自己的好朋友、就读于乌市第二十三中学高三的艺考生古丽·阿布都许库，两人一拍即合，打算在暑假期间推出系列直播和头条号“安妮古丽”。

　　“我叫安妮，她叫古丽，我们就干脆把头条号名称定为安妮古丽，好听又好记，还有新疆色彩。”古丽说，虽然两人都是艺考生，学过表演，但她却是第一次出镜直播，“我其实挺紧张的，不知道怎么直播，我俩还特地买了《新疆十万个为什么》这本书，它像是一本导游书，我们每到一个地方做直播录视频时，都会提前翻翻。”

　　7月12日，“安妮古丽”头条号正式发布了第一条短视频《新疆美女带你逛乌鲁木齐特色大巴扎，原来天山雪莲这里就能买到！》，不到4分钟的视频获得了18.6万次的播放量，8000多条评论，这让安妮和古丽兴奋极了，“我们都没想到能吸引这么多网友看，更有信心了。”随后，在不到两个月的时间内，安妮和古丽陆续发布了30多条视频和直播，古丽说:“最高的一次是在霍尔果斯做的直播，播放量超过100万次。”

　　*要继续推介大美新疆*

　　生活中的安妮活泼开朗，古丽腼腆可爱，两人在镜头前也各有特色，互相补充，“我话多爱唱歌，古丽比较细心会跳舞，每次直播，我们就一个唱歌，一个跳舞，配合默契。”安妮说，虽然“安妮古丽”一直都深受网友喜爱，但她们也并不是一帆风顺。“我记得有一次我们去萨尔达坂乡一个小村子，那里很美，四面环山，冰山达坂天高云淡，泉水清冽可口，山林、小河、绿草、牦牛、羊群、马儿和毡房勾画出一副美丽的游牧山水图。”安妮说，“那天，我们中午2点多吃过饭，打算去山上做直播，结果我举着自拍杆和摄影师爬山爬到一半，开始下暴雨，因为怕山路湿滑，我们不敢下山，一直到天黑雨停了才下山，特别惊险。”

　　而为了丰富直播和视频内容，古丽还请来了自己的家人助阵，“我爷爷会弹都塔尔、手鼓、热瓦普等民族乐器，我在直播讲到新疆乐器时，就直接把老人家请到镜头前，给网友们现场展示，效果特别好，网友都羡慕我有一个这么厉害的爷爷。”古丽笑着说。

　　除了新疆的美景美食，安妮和古丽的颜值也深受网友称赞。“都说新疆遍地是古力娜扎和迪丽热巴，看了安妮和古丽，我信了。”“安妮和古丽两位小姐姐的衣服太美了，在哪买的啊？”“新疆美女真多，安妮英气爽朗，古丽甜美可爱，各有特色。”面对网友的称赞，古丽有些害羞：“其实我们就是穿自己平时的衣服出镜，比如艾德莱斯绸的裙子等带有新疆特色的服饰，去那拉提花海时，我就会特意穿上符合当地特色的花裙子，视频效果很棒。”

　　因为出色的直播，安妮也常常收到内地同学和朋友的鼓励，“有一次我直播的内容里有美味可口的切糕，北京的同学看到了，给我发微信非要我带点给她，说是被我的直播吸引到了，哈哈。”而最新一期的直播中，安妮因为到北京上课，无法继续出镜，但她仍然记挂着“安妮古丽”。“这是我和古丽的心血，现在古丽一个人在支撑，我特别盼望这边的集训结束后，趁休息日赶回新疆，继续给大家推荐新疆的美食美景。”

http://www.hongshannet.cn/jplm/hssj/zmrt/201809/t20180906_584289.html

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## beijingwalker

*Uighur girl says feeling so lucky born in China*
This Uighur girl went to a supermarket in Xinjiang during the virus lockdown couples of months ago. Everything is nice and orderly, supermarkets and stores are all well stocked, No panic shopping, no shortage of anything, price of meat rose really high though,she suggests people buy meat in small local stores but not supermarkets cause the price gap is very noticeable.

In the end she exclaimed that she felt so so lucky to be born in China, everything is nice, peaceful and abundant. Life is such a joy and she believes China will only be more better in the future.

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## Indos

beijingwalker said:


> *Uighur girl says feeling so lucky born in China*
> This Uighur girl went to a supermarket in Xinjiang during the virus lockdown couples of months ago. Everything is nice and orderly, supermarkets and stores are all well stocked, No panic shopping, no shortage of anything, price of meat rose really high though,she suggests people buy meat in small local stores but not supermarkets cause the price gap is very noticeable.
> 
> In the end she exclaimed that she felt so so lucky to be born in China, everything is nice, peaceful and abundant. Life is such a joy and she believes China will only be more better in the future.



She needs to improve her English and start using English for global audience.


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## 艹艹艹

Beautiful


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## Sharma Ji

isn't YouTube banned in China ?


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## yex

Indos said:


> I still remember Beijing Walker has started to post her Youtube channel when her videos only have less than 50 views



we should have some one like li zi qi.





we have more fertile land and sun shine compare china. but all we have is atta halilintor. and some bencu family where they famous for stealing brand and secret recepie.


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## Indos

yex said:


> we should have some one like li zi qi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we have more fertile land and sun shine compare china. but all we have is atta halilintor. and some bencu family where they famous for stealing brand and secret recepie.



Atta Halilintar and other celebrities channel may still have get many audience but good real entertaining Youtube Channel Like Panji have also gotten huge popularity and Panji has started to use English in his latest channel






Solo Indonesian women camping






Indonesian survival in the forest

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## Yaseen1

it also opposes western propaganda that china is not allowing freedom of expressions to uighurs


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## yex

Indos said:


> Atta Halilintar and other celebrities channel may still have get many audience but good real entertaining Youtube Channel Like Panji have also gotten huge popularity and Panji has started to use English in his latest channel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Solo Indonesian women camping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesian survival in the forest



I dont know.
When i watch those video. it feels kind of boring and not as good as Li ziqi
like different level...


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## Indos

yex said:


> I dont know.
> When i watch those video. it feels kind of boring and not as good as Li ziqi
> like different level...



Yup Li ziqi is quite extra ordinary, in Indonesia what she is doing is actually a man work. No Indonesian women ever do thing like that. 

Educating channel like this is also popular in our country.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

beijingwalker said:


> She was celebrating surpassing 1 million subscribers mark for her social media channel yesterday.


She looks like a Pak tv actress.. both look like mice lol.

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang, My Home | A woman aiming to become public servant*
This woman in Kashgar in Xinjiang, China loves painting and making clothes in her spare time. While at work, she's dedicated to serving the local people.

All Chinese leaders have to start from this grassroots entry level government position, including Xi jingping himself.





*

*


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## beijingwalker

Today she went to Ili town to visit her grandparents wearing shorts, which made her grandmother extremely angry, her grandmother strongly reprimanded her and demanded her to put on long pants. She lamented over the great generation gap between the young people and the very old.


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## Menthol

beijingwalker said:


> This popular teenager Uighur vlogger girl received the Silver Award from Youtube to honor her for building up the number of her followers to over 100,000 in just one year on her Youtube channel, she is so happy for being recognized by overseas social media channels.



OMG, she is so beautiful!

I think not just YouTube Silver Award...

I think she is going to get a diamond ring of marriage from me.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> She looks like a Pak tv actress.. both look like mice lol.
> View attachment 650328



Okay... she is too!


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## Menthol

beijingwalker said:


> Today she went to Ili town to visit her grandparents wearing shorts, which made her grandmother extremely angry, her grandmother strongly reprimanded her and demanded her to put on long pants. She lamented over the great generation gap between the young people and the very old.



This one too as well!


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## beijingwalker

Menthol said:


> This one too as well!


She is Uighur but looks same as Han Chinese, can perfectly blend in everywhere in China.


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## Menthol

beijingwalker said:


> She is Uighur but looks same as Han Chinese, can perfectly blend in everywhere in China.



She is like a mix between Chinese and European.

It's the most beautiful mix of all.

Whatever in the east or west, they all highly demand.


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## beijingwalker

Indos said:


> I still remember Beijing Walker has started to post her Youtube channel when her videos only have less than 50 views


This Uighur village girl's Youtube channel always has big potentials, cause she is a twin, the two sisters look exactly the same, and she presents what life is like in rural villages in Xinjiang.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsQRMdQd199Fh0U4tczxkpw/videos



Menthol said:


> She is like a mix between Chinese and European.



I think she looks pretty much the same as Han Chinese and can blend in everywhere in China.

This Xinjiang girl looks very foreign, won't blend in outside Xinjiang in China.


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## Indos

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> She looks like a Pak tv actress.. both look like mice lol.
> View attachment 650328



I wonder how I could get Pakistani girl.........

I believe FB and my English can be the medium 

My cousin when visited Pakistan also took photo with several women who are as beautiful as the actress that you show.

Even one of them is more beautiful than that actress.

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## fisher1

At least Hitler had the guts to do this openly. Even India has the guts to do it openly.

What a bunch of sissies and wankers these commies are that they can't even admit this. 

So much for China supa powa numba 1. 

Guess you can have the largest army in the world but if you're a coward, you gonna stay a coward

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## beijingwalker

Why Uighur families have so many children? Her mother didn't give up after having 3 daughters, in the end it paid off and she got a boy.

She says it's just a tradition that Uighurs like to have big families so people can take care of each other, she feels sorry for people from only child families (Han families), saying there's no company when growing up and no siblings care and tend you when you are sick.


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang boasts the best medical facilities and medical professionals in the whole Central Asia region, so foreigners frome all neighboring countries flock to Xinjiang to seek medical help when their own countgry fail to provide it.
*
Xinjiang hospitals treat over 20,000 foreign patients from neighboring countries*
By Zhang Hui Source:Global Times Published: 2019/8/26 16:38:39

Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region has established a cross-border telemedicine service platform which has so far helped more than 20,000 foreign patients from nearby Central Asian countries. 

Xinjiang launched the international medical service in five of its hospitals which have so far treated 21,178 foreign patients. Relying on Urumqi's high-quality medical resources, local health authorities established a cross-border telemedicine service platform in 2015, connecting 29 hospitals in the region and 24 hospitals in three nearby countries, according to information the Xinjiang's health commission provided to the Global Times on Monday. 

With improved medical quality and a similar language, a growing number of heart disease patients from nearby Central Asian countries, mostly Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan, who previously went to Germany for treatment, came to Xinjiang's hospitals, Ding Qiang, director of Kizilsu Kirgiz People's Hospital in west Xinjiang, told the Global Times on Monday.

Ding, who was sent by East China's Jiangsu Province to assist Xinjiang's medical services, said that last year his hospital treated three foreign heart disease patients, but this year 30 foreign patients have already registered at the hospital. 

Doctors from Jiangsu began assisting Xinjiang hospitals in 2016. Ding's hospital is able to perform transcatheter closure surgery on patients with congenital heart disease, which is less traumatic and less risky compared to other methods. 

In Urumqi, a new international hospital began operation on August 16, to provide cross-border health services for Central and Western Asian countries. 

According to Xinjiang health commission, Xinjiang also established the China-Central Asia tuberculosis control and training base, which will cooperate with related countries to build a joint tuberculosis prevention mechanism. 

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1162681.shtml

*Xinjiang hospital uses 5G technology to improve treatment*
12:28, 17-Jul-2020






A hospital in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region has adopted 5G technology to improve its daily treatment of patients, launching a range of 5G-supported services on Wednesday. 

The technology is being used for pre-hospital first aid, robot guidance, VR visiting, remote ultrasound and other medical services, according to the First Affiliated Hospital of Xinjiang Medical University in Urumqi, the regional capital. 

The large bandwidth and reduced time-lag of 5G technology can greatly improve the ability of high-quality medical resources to benefit more patients, according to Tang Baopeng, vice president of the hospital. For example, 5G ultrasound makes medical images clearer and facilitates the real-time interaction between doctors from different areas, which could solve some technical problems for remote hospitals faster.

China Mobile's Xinjiang branch, the service provider, said 5G technology will be implemented in more hospitals in Urumqi. 

So far, 2,379 5G base stations have been built in Urumqi, and the 5G coverage in urban areas has reached 94.6 percent.

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-07-...gy-to-improve-treatment-Sc6g8gv6BG/index.html

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## Yankee-stani

Xinjiang is a far western region currently under the administration of the People's Republic of China since 1949, this strategic region borders a dozen countries and is rich in natural resources like oil, natural gas, minerals, etc this diverse region populated mostly by Turkic Uyghurs, Kazakhs and Kyrgyz, etc, has now caught the attention of the world for purported human rights abuses by the Bejing Central Government at the same time various rivals of China are seething at the effects of this situation.





*Note I know some folks here are going to assume I am a "China" shrill or apologist if you think that please don't troll!!*





With the massive reports of human rights abuses in Xinjiang, it seems Muslims in the west "I noticed" are being critical of Muslim countries like Pakistan for not standing up against the abuses and I noticed loads of "far-right" and Hindu Nationalists types praise the abuses or purported ones again its not black and white this situation. The Thread here is about the potential effects of an independent East Turkestan and why its not good for Pakistan's geo-strategic interests and the region.





* An Independent East Turkestan will be a bone to the "Americans, Indians and other rivals" to exploit and could potentially hurt Pakistan in the long run.*



Pakistan is in a tough neighborhood India is the main arch-nemesis has always a been thorn on its sides supporting proxies and instable actions holds the other half of Kashmir, Afghanistan is a dysfunctional, backward, tribal country with Kabul failing to even control its city, and home to several anti-Pakistan proxies, Iran is a mixed bag tho in recent months relations have improved due to the Iranian leadership ditching "Indian designs" for a long term potential "pact" with China the Balochistan region is unstable on both sides home to separatist groups, now that leaves China the only peaceful border and front Pakistan has at the present moment and Pakistan's potential gateway to Central Asia and Eurasia in general with Kashgar as its node. China has been an "ally" for us granted not perfect one they have provided us defense equipment and investments for Pakistan to stand. An Independent East Turkestan will put a kibosh to that, the Uyghur leadership will most likely be allied with the US, and India perhaps even give bases to both this has happened in the past, back in the early 1980s when China despite being Communist was in bitter rivalry with then Communist Juggernaut the USSR, the Chinese gave signal intelligence posts for the US to spy on Soviet bases in former Soviet Frontiers, also they were camps set up for Afghan anti-Soviet forces in Xinjiang, so I would not be surprised if East Turkistan gains independence that can happen again also in the former Soviet Republic of Tajikstan the Indians have a small base there too it will be suicide for us.




I will add more reasons why its a bad idea for an "Independent East Turkestan" after I see input from other members and their reasons

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## Ace of Spades

Please remove the map and put correct version.


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## -blitzkrieg-

Yankee-stani said:


> Xinjiang is a far western region currently under the administration of the People's Republic of China since 1949, this strategic region borders a dozen countries and is rich in natural resources like oil, natural gas, minerals, etc this diverse region populated mostly by Turkic Uyghurs, Kazakhs and Kyrgyz, etc, has now caught the attention of the world for purported human rights abuses by the Bejing Central Government at the same time various rivals of China are seething at the effects of this situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Note I know some folks here are going to assume I am a "China" shrill or apologist if you think that please don't troll!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the massive reports of human rights abuses in Xinjiang, it seems Muslims in the west "I noticed" are being critical of Muslim countries like Pakistan for not standing up against the abuses and I noticed loads of "far-right" and Hindu Nationalists types praise the abuses or purported ones again its not black and white this situation. The Thread here is about the potential effects of an independent East Turkestan and why its not good for Pakistan's geo-strategic interests and the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * An Independent East Turkestan will be a bone to the "Americans, Indians and other rivals" to exploit and could potentially hurt Pakistan in the long run.*
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan is in a tough neighborhood India is the main arch-nemesis has always a been thorn on its sides supporting proxies and instable actions holds the other half of Kashmir, Afghanistan is a dysfunctional, backward, tribal country with Kabul failing to even control its city, and home to several anti-Pakistan proxies, Iran is a mixed bag tho in recent months relations have improved due to the Iranian leadership ditching "Indian designs" for a long term potential "pact" with China the Balochistan region is unstable on both sides home to separatist groups, now that leaves China the only peaceful border and front Pakistan has at the present moment and Pakistan's potential gateway to Central Asia and Eurasia in general with Kashgar as its node. China has been an "ally" for us granted not perfect one they have provided us defense equipment and investments for Pakistan to stand. An Independent East Turkestan will put a kibosh to that, the Uyghur leadership will most likely be allied with the US, and India perhaps even give bases to both this has happened in the past, back in the early 1980s when China despite being Communist was in bitter rivalry with then Communist Juggernaut the USSR, the Chinese gave signal intelligence posts for the US to spy on Soviet bases in former Soviet Frontiers, also they were camps set up for Afghan anti-Soviet forces in Xinjiang, so I would not be surprised if East Turkistan gains independence that can happen again also in the former Soviet Republic of Tajikstan the Indians have a small base there too it will be suicide for us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will add more reasons why its a bad idea for an "Independent East Turkestan" after I see input from other members and their reasons


Atleast use a proper map that shows kashmir with Pakistan..


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## Pandora

Independent east Turkestan would no doubt be anti china and would effectively cut off our land route with china as well. Also the possibility of such a thing to happen is next to zero considering strategic location. China would rather wipe out entire Uyghur population rather than it being free.

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## Yankee-stani

Pandora said:


> Independent east Turkestan would no doubt be anti china and would effectively cut off our land route with china as well. Also the possibility of such a thing to happen is next to zero considering strategic location. China would rather wipe out entire Uyghur population rather than it being free.



In a realistic situation I don't see a "independent" East Turkestan occurring but situation would not be favorable for Pakistan and the region

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## CAN_TR

Forget Independence just don't put them in "education" camps.

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## waz

We have an official thread for this guys. I will merge.

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## beijingwalker

*Swans attracted to Korla city Xinjiang by clean water and beautiful environment*

Lots of swans are attracted by Korla city Xinjiang every winter by the city's clean rivers and lakes and overall beautiful environment. Korla parks and gardens code enforcement officers take the job to feed them every day.

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## beijingwalker

> Korla is a city in the western province of Xinjiang. It is close to the Takla-Makan Desert. Korla has a cold desert climate (Köppen climate classification BWk) with extreme seasonal variation in temperature.Temperatures can range from -6 ° C to + 26 ° C.



Can't imagine that this beautiful city is actually in the world second biggest desert... our people are really capable of achieving any miracles.

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## Zapper



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## Prometheus

OIC including Pakistan should raise their voice against the ethnic genocide of Uyghurs

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## Chhatrapati

Western propaganda fake news. Deeper than bullshit taller than nonsense.

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## Feng Leng

... and this how separatism / terrorism is eliminated *bows to the applause*


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## Prometheus

Feng Leng said:


> ... and this how separatism / terrorism is eliminated *bows to the applause*



Will pakistan be ok if similar thing is done in india? i dont know about pakistanis but indians will be against it


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## Reashot Xigwin

& the Chinese bots are already slamming the video without watching it.

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## beijingwalker

Prometheus said:


> Will pakistan be ok if similar thing is done in india? i dont know about pakistanis but indians will be against it


I don't India can ever have the ability to do what China does in Xinjiang

China provides people in Xinjiang 15 years free education, free meals, free school break snacks including milk, egges and fruits, free school accommodation. kids under 6 years old is provided with free daily milk.

China invested tens of billions to provide safe drinking water and stable electricity to every household in Xinjiang, for poor people in Xinjiang government provides free government houses with basic appliance and furniture, cash subsidy, free healthcare and free annual physical checkup...

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## Prometheus

beijingwalker said:


> I don't India can ever have the ability to do what China does in Xinjiang
> 
> China provides people in Xinjiang 15 years free education, free meals, free school break snacks including milk, egges and fruits, free school accommodation. kids under 6 years old is provided with free daily milk.
> 
> China invested tens of billions to provide safe drinking water and stable electricity to every household in Xinjiang, for poor people in Xinjiang government provides free government houses with basic appliance and furniture, cash subsidy, free healthcare and free annual physical checkup...




May Waheguru bless India to provide such facilities in future to our neighbours in pakistan and Communist China


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## beijingwalker

Prometheus said:


> May Waheguru bless India to provide such facilities in future to our neighbours in pakistan and Communist China


You should think about handling your urgent hunger problem all across India, your people are dying of hunger everyday.


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## Sharma Ji

beijingwalker said:


> state give free things
> 
> Uighur should worship state
> 
> Uighur should not worship allah
> 
> what allah gave uighur ? nothing



 

It's ok man, John Oliver is a funny guy, He's gone after Modi, Imran Khan..

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## beijingwalker

dharmi said:


> state give free things
> 
> Uighur should worship state
> 
> Uighur should not worship allah
> 
> what allah gave uighur ? nothing


Ok, how old are you? a child play, every one can do this.


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## Sharma Ji

beijingwalker said:


> Ok, how old are you? a child play, every one can do this.


Xiào Kāiwánxiào


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## Prometheus

beijingwalker said:


> You should think about handling your urgent hunger problem all across India, your people are dying of hunger everyday.



Maybe Waheguru bless India to feed and house our neighbouring Pakistan and Communist China in similar camps as Communists China is keeping Uyghurs in. It would be more then 93,000 this time ???


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## beijingwalker

Prometheus said:


> Maybe Waheguru bless India to feed and house our neighbouring Pakistan and Communist China in similar camps as Communists China is keeping Uyghurs in. It would be more then 93,000 this time ???


Indians better try to think about how to stay alive rather than anything else.


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## padamchen

dharmi said:


> Xiào Kāiwánxiào



I just discovered that we share a border with these happy Chinese.

Uttam.

Cheers, Doc


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## Prometheus

beijingwalker said:


> Indians better try to think about how to stay alive rather than anything else.


why? 
cant we think about being generous host like we were in 1971?


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## LeGenD

Zapper said:


>


Could you not post this in an existing thread?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> & the Chinese bots are already slamming the video without watching it.


Post in poor taste.


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## beijingwalker

"Desert city" Korla, Xinjiang

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## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker

Uighur singer sings " Come on, Korla" and dedicates this song to his hometown, Korla

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang relatively less developed desert town throws tons of food to birds everyday while many people from some south Asia superpower country are dying from hunger, but they still have the guts to repeatedly attack China over Xinjiang claiming this higly developed, rich, safe, clean and prosperous region with the world top first class infrastructure and public facilites is the hell on earth.

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## Vanguard One

*Nations that claim to be defenders of the faith offer no protest to the concentration camps*

Sat 4 Jul 2020 19.00 BSTLast modified on Sat 4 Jul 2020 20.20 BST




One of China’s ‘re-education’ centres in Dabancheng, Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region. Photograph: Thomas Peter/Reuters
When China imposed trade sanctions on Norway in 2010 for honouring the imprisoned dissident Liu Xiaobo with the Nobel peace prize, it spat out a word we weren’t used to hearing from propagandists for an atheist communist regime, but should get used to today. “It’s a blasphemy,” a party mouthpiece said.

Once, blasphemy was damning the faithful’s gods and sacred books. Now, criticism of the world’s largest dictatorship has become sacrilegious. You shouldn’t be surprised. As some of us tried to say in the 1990s and 2000s, the gap between the sacred and the profane was never as wide as religious sentimentalists and liberal multiculturalists believed.

They went along with the argument that it was bad taste at best and racism at worst to offend believers. You were “punching down” at largely poor and largely Muslim communities. We thought they were being wilfully blind. They did not understand how men with real power and malice were manipulating religious outrage to consolidate their rule over their wretched population. Iran issued a death sentence on Salman Rushdie in 1989 for satirising Islam’s foundation myths in _The Satanic Verses._ Its theocratic dictator, Ayatollah Khomeini, was augmenting his powers by claiming to speak for the Muslim world, as well as taking aim at novelists. When the Danish newspaper _Jyllands-Posten_ published largely innocuous cartoons of Muhammad in 2005, to assert the right to mock religion, the Egyptian and Syrian dictators, Hosni Mubarak and Bashar al-Assad, turned a local argument into a global campaign against Denmark. The cries of rage usefully distracted from their corruption and misrule. I could add further examples but they tell the same story. Authoritarian politics and authoritarian religion are just two sides of the same debased coin.

China has stripped away the religious justifications to reveal what was once half-hidden: unadorned and unstoppable power. In many countries, criticising China is the new blasphemy. Nowhere can you see the power more nakedly displayed than in Muslim-majority regimes. Once, they tried to murder blasphemous novelists and screamed about their desire to defend the prophet from the smallest insult. Today, they bend their knees and bite their tongues as China engages in unspeakable atrocities against the largely Muslim Uighur population of western China.

One of the great crimes of the 21st century is being committed in front of our eyes. We see it, yet we don’t register it. The Chinese Communist party is reverting to type, and reviving the totalitarian fear of the Mao era. To bring down numbers of the largely Muslim Uighurs of Xinjiang, the China scholar Adrian Zenz reports, the Communists are forcing women to be sterilised or fitted with contraceptive devices. If they resist, the state sends them to join the one million Uighur people and other Muslim minorities detained in what the state defines as “re-education” camps. A BBC investigation found that China was separating children from their families so they grew up without understanding Islam.

Xinjiang without taking extraordinary risks. With no footage of their suffering, millions can suffer unnoticed in the dark.

But the main reasons why Muslims suffer in silence is that the Muslim-majority countries that raged against Rushdie, _Jyllands-Posten_ and _Charlie Hebdo_ have decided to stay silent. They use the idea of Muslim solidarity only when it suits them.

In July 2019, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Algeria and other Muslim-majority states that pose as defenders of the faith helped to block a western motion at the United Nations calling for China to allow “independent international observers” into the Xinjiang region. Iran issues occasional criticisms but wants Chinese support in its struggle against the Trump administration and so keeps its complaints coded. Their hypocrisy is almost funny, if you take your humour black. Iran, Egypt, Syria and dozens of other countries that could not tolerate a magical realist novel can live with the mass sterilisation of Muslim women. They will give concentration camps a conniving wink of approval, but draw the line at cartoons in a Danish newspaper.

Many have been bought off. China is now a more active and influential voice at the United Nations because so many countries are benefiting from billions of dollars in Chinese investments through its “Belt and Road” infrastructure programme. As Norway found in 2010, and Australia found this year when it asked for an international inquiry into the origins of Covid-19, those who blaspheme against China face cyber-attacks and sanctions. Better to take the rewards and avoid the punishments.

Following the money, however, can lead you into a dead end. In a survey of China’s growing power, the _Economist_ noted it was making the world safe for autocracy. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, for example, keeps his conservative base happy in Turkey by posing as an ostentatiously Islamic strongman. But he is not likely to condemn the abuse of Muslims by China when he is just as keen on abusing the rights of his domestic opponents. The Chinese world order appeals to the freemasonry of publicity-shy sadists. You say nothing about what we do to our subject people and we will say nothing about what you do to yours.

“The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas – uncertainty, progress, change – into crimes,” said Salman Rushdie when he was in fear of his life in 1990. He was talking about conservative Islam. China is now turning criticism of its disastrous record on incubating the Covid-19 virus and its atrocities against its Muslim minorities into crimes, and the people who should be shouting the loudest are bowing their heads in reverential silence.

•Nick Cohen is an Observer columnist

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ates-stay-silent-over-chinas-uighur-brutality

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## vi-va

Oh come on. Is it breakfast news paper every morning?

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## Nilgiri

Lot of the larger thoughts on the matter have been aired out on this thread (esp about halfway thru it) for those interested:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/repo...-labor-in-chinese-concentration-camps.676965/

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## 8888888888888

Because most of the claims by USA is fake news.

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## vi-va

This's Kashmir, curfew for one damn year. The west are completely blind?










This is Xinjiang

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## Nilgiri

Here comes the "nothing to see here...look thataways!" cringe right on time!

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## kankan326

What a jail picture can tell? Every country has jails.

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang
http://www.mafengwo.cn/gonglve/ziyouxing/261541.html

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang.
http://www.mafengwo.cn/gonglve/ziyouxing/149647.html

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## Mirzah

very few uighurs in the pictures I wonder why?


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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang
http://www.mafengwo.cn/gonglve/ziyouxing/276895.html

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## beijingwalker

Mirzah said:


> very few uighurs in the pictures I wonder why?


Very few people in them, be them Uighurs or Hans, the pictures are mostly nature and scenery pics, You want to see people's pics?

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## atan651

All are welcome to visit beautiful Xinjiang.

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang.
http://www.mafengwo.cn/gonglve/ziyouxing/307720.html

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## beijingwalker

300 million tourists visit Xinjiang every year, Xinjiang's total population is 22 million.

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## vi-va

@Mangus Ortus Novem, @Yankee-stani , @Nilgiri

@beijingwalker @eldarlmari @rott @Beast @LKJ86 @eldarlmari @PeacefulWar @CHN Bamboo @ChineseTiger1986 @Char @bbccdd1470 @Raphael @925boy @Feng Leng @IblinI @JSCh @kankan326 @LKJ86 @lonelyman @Menthol @Nan Yang @ozranger @powastick @Raphael @rott @Ryan @S10 @shi12jun @Stranagor @TaiShang @xuxu1457 @艹艹艹 @Han Patriot @Chinese-Dragon @Daniel808 @hirobo2 @FairAndUnbiased @Feng Leng @Figaro @IblinI @Kai Liu @Leishangthem @lonelyman @moweike @powastick @Raphael @Ryan @serenity @siegecrossbow @ToddBing @TOTUU @Song Hong @tower9 @ZeEa5KPul @zhxy @帅的一匹 @casual @sinait

@Shantanu_Left *@**Joe Sheare**r *@Naofumi 

@Indos 

*@**Rasengan** @zectech @FuturePAF @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakFactor @KAL-EL @Nein @**Pan-Islamic-Pakistan** @Aspen @BATMAN @**Imran Khan** @**KeyBORED Warrior** @**masterchief_mirza** @PakSword *

*@Bengal71 *

@waz @*Arsalan** @Deino *

@Piotr @*mohammad** @**Philosopher** @**mohsen** @Sina-1 @Sineva*

@*OldTwilight*

@HannibalBarca 

@*Mista*

@*TruthHurtz*

@*xenon54*

@Viet @Viva_Viet @xiao qi

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## ozranger

There are many good videos shot by LOCAL Uighurs, Han, Mongolian or other groups of people living in Xinjiang. There are also videos taken by unbiased foreigners.

By an Asian Canadian (The hotel is located in Uighurs neighbourhood and he talked to a Uighur at late night!)





By a Han tourist (You can't see any hostility or segregation in the video)





A Uighur girl's Youtube channel (they live in south Xinjiang where there is a very large Uighurs population and they look pretty wealthy)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBuJWLhR0VJfR79YhWus_Ew

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## ToddBing

vi-va said:


> @Mangus Ortus Novem, @Yankee-stani , @Nilgiri
> 
> @beijingwalker @eldarlmari @rott @Beast @LKJ86 @eldarlmari @PeacefulWar @CHN Bamboo @ChineseTiger1986 @Char @bbccdd1470 @Raphael @925boy @Feng Leng @IblinI @JSCh @kankan326 @LKJ86 @lonelyman @Menthol @Nan Yang @ozranger @powastick @Raphael @rott @Ryan @S10 @shi12jun @Stranagor @TaiShang @xuxu1457 @艹艹艹 @Han Patriot @Chinese-Dragon @Daniel808 @hirobo2 @FairAndUnbiased @Feng Leng @Figaro @IblinI @Kai Liu @Leishangthem @lonelyman @moweike @powastick @Raphael @Ryan @serenity @siegecrossbow @ToddBing @TOTUU @Song Hong @tower9 @ZeEa5KPul @zhxy @帅的一匹 @casual @sinait
> 
> @Shantanu_Left *@**Joe Sheare**r *@Naofumi
> 
> @Indos
> 
> *@**Rasengan** @zectech @FuturePAF @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakFactor @KAL-EL @Nein @**Pan-Islamic-Pakistan** @Aspen @BATMAN @**Imran Khan** @**KeyBORED Warrior** @**masterchief_mirza** @PakSword *
> 
> *@Bengal71 *
> 
> @waz @*Arsalan** @Deino *
> 
> @Piotr @*mohammad** @**Philosopher** @**mohsen** @Sina-1 @Sineva*
> 
> @*OldTwilight*
> 
> @HannibalBarca
> 
> @*Mista*
> 
> @*TruthHurtz*
> 
> @*xenon54*
> 
> @Viet @Viva_Viet @xiao qi



Have no interest in those fake news.
Don't deserve a refute.
Westerners killing hunderds of millions of Musilim, and now they pretend to concern about them.
hypocritical.

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## Joe1351

vi-va said:


> This's Kashmir, curfew for one damn year. The west are completely blind?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Xinjiang
> View attachment 658627
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Due your action is an insult all those people suffering. I’m a Christian and I feel for those poor people.


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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang.
http://www.mafengwo.cn/gonglve/ziyouxing/60778.html

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## beijingwalker

ozranger said:


> There are many good videos shot by LOCAL Uighurs in Xinjiang. There are also videos taken by unbiased foreigners.



Check this Uighur guy's youtube channel for Xinjiang local Cuisines and his day to day family life.

*Fatt's family life*
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdxfDTc9C0d9SuSaMJ_W2UA

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## Clutch

Because it's all BS
.. Just like Iraq's *Weapons of Mass Destruction that never existed*...


It's Western and Indian Hindu propaganda to seperate the alliance of Muslims and China
..

That's why...

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang
http://www.mafengwo.cn/gonglve/ziyouxing/252235.html

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## sinait

Uighurs are very lucky.
They are licensed to cheat, steal, rob and kill in the name of democrazy and freedom.

They just have to CRY HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION if police dare come to arrest them.
LIE-CHEAT-STEAL Pompeo will fight for their rights to crime.
.


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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang. *Kashgar *
http://www.mafengwo.cn/photo/poi/28124.html

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang. *Kashgar*
http://www.mafengwo.cn/photo/poi/28124.html

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang. *Kashgar*
http://www.mafengwo.cn/photo/poi/28124.html

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang. *Kashgar*
http://www.mafengwo.cn/photo/poi/28124.html

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang. *Kashgar*
http://www.mafengwo.cn/photo/poi/28124.html

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## FairAndUnbiased

@vi-va posting happy pictures of Uighurs do not make them happy. they do not give a shit about them. in fact it makes them even more angry and hostile.

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## rent4country

Vanguard One said:


> *Nations that claim to be defenders of the faith offer no protest to the concentration camps*
> 
> Sat 4 Jul 2020 19.00 BSTLast modified on Sat 4 Jul 2020 20.20 BST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of China’s ‘re-education’ centres in Dabancheng, Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region. Photograph: Thomas Peter/Reuters
> When China imposed trade sanctions on Norway in 2010 for honouring the imprisoned dissident Liu Xiaobo with the Nobel peace prize, it spat out a word we weren’t used to hearing from propagandists for an atheist communist regime, but should get used to today. “It’s a blasphemy,” a party mouthpiece said.
> 
> Once, blasphemy was damning the faithful’s gods and sacred books. Now, criticism of the world’s largest dictatorship has become sacrilegious. You shouldn’t be surprised. As some of us tried to say in the 1990s and 2000s, the gap between the sacred and the profane was never as wide as religious sentimentalists and liberal multiculturalists believed.
> 
> They went along with the argument that it was bad taste at best and racism at worst to offend believers. You were “punching down” at largely poor and largely Muslim communities. We thought they were being wilfully blind. They did not understand how men with real power and malice were manipulating religious outrage to consolidate their rule over their wretched population. Iran issued a death sentence on Salman Rushdie in 1989 for satirising Islam’s foundation myths in _The Satanic Verses._ Its theocratic dictator, Ayatollah Khomeini, was augmenting his powers by claiming to speak for the Muslim world, as well as taking aim at novelists. When the Danish newspaper _Jyllands-Posten_ published largely innocuous cartoons of Muhammad in 2005, to assert the right to mock religion, the Egyptian and Syrian dictators, Hosni Mubarak and Bashar al-Assad, turned a local argument into a global campaign against Denmark. The cries of rage usefully distracted from their corruption and misrule. I could add further examples but they tell the same story. Authoritarian politics and authoritarian religion are just two sides of the same debased coin.
> 
> China has stripped away the religious justifications to reveal what was once half-hidden: unadorned and unstoppable power. In many countries, criticising China is the new blasphemy. Nowhere can you see the power more nakedly displayed than in Muslim-majority regimes. Once, they tried to murder blasphemous novelists and screamed about their desire to defend the prophet from the smallest insult. Today, they bend their knees and bite their tongues as China engages in unspeakable atrocities against the largely Muslim Uighur population of western China.
> 
> One of the great crimes of the 21st century is being committed in front of our eyes. We see it, yet we don’t register it. The Chinese Communist party is reverting to type, and reviving the totalitarian fear of the Mao era. To bring down numbers of the largely Muslim Uighurs of Xinjiang, the China scholar Adrian Zenz reports, the Communists are forcing women to be sterilised or fitted with contraceptive devices. If they resist, the state sends them to join the one million Uighur people and other Muslim minorities detained in what the state defines as “re-education” camps. A BBC investigation found that China was separating children from their families so they grew up without understanding Islam.
> 
> Xinjiang without taking extraordinary risks. With no footage of their suffering, millions can suffer unnoticed in the dark.
> 
> But the main reasons why Muslims suffer in silence is that the Muslim-majority countries that raged against Rushdie, _Jyllands-Posten_ and _Charlie Hebdo_ have decided to stay silent. They use the idea of Muslim solidarity only when it suits them.
> 
> In July 2019, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Algeria and other Muslim-majority states that pose as defenders of the faith helped to block a western motion at the United Nations calling for China to allow “independent international observers” into the Xinjiang region. Iran issues occasional criticisms but wants Chinese support in its struggle against the Trump administration and so keeps its complaints coded. Their hypocrisy is almost funny, if you take your humour black. Iran, Egypt, Syria and dozens of other countries that could not tolerate a magical realist novel can live with the mass sterilisation of Muslim women. They will give concentration camps a conniving wink of approval, but draw the line at cartoons in a Danish newspaper.
> 
> Many have been bought off. China is now a more active and influential voice at the United Nations because so many countries are benefiting from billions of dollars in Chinese investments through its “Belt and Road” infrastructure programme. As Norway found in 2010, and Australia found this year when it asked for an international inquiry into the origins of Covid-19, those who blaspheme against China face cyber-attacks and sanctions. Better to take the rewards and avoid the punishments.
> 
> Following the money, however, can lead you into a dead end. In a survey of China’s growing power, the _Economist_ noted it was making the world safe for autocracy. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, for example, keeps his conservative base happy in Turkey by posing as an ostentatiously Islamic strongman. But he is not likely to condemn the abuse of Muslims by China when he is just as keen on abusing the rights of his domestic opponents. The Chinese world order appeals to the freemasonry of publicity-shy sadists. You say nothing about what we do to our subject people and we will say nothing about what you do to yours.
> 
> “The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas – uncertainty, progress, change – into crimes,” said Salman Rushdie when he was in fear of his life in 1990. He was talking about conservative Islam. China is now turning criticism of its disastrous record on incubating the Covid-19 virus and its atrocities against its Muslim minorities into crimes, and the people who should be shouting the loudest are bowing their heads in reverential silence.
> 
> •Nick Cohen is an Observer columnist
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ates-stay-silent-over-chinas-uighur-brutality


Not everyone who preaches on Friday's or Sunday, preachers on other days of the week. #Part-TimeShifts


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## Clutch



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## Clutch



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## rent4country

Chinese propaganda squad activated.


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## Clutch



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## Mirzah

beijingwalker said:


> Very few people in them, be them Uighurs or Hans, the pictures are mostly nature and scenery pics, You want to see people's pics?


 what will those cherry picked pictures prove? There are no concentration camps, there is no forced labor? It's all western lies and conspiracy against China ?

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## Clutch

rent4country said:


> Chinese propaganda squad activated.


OP... Is Western activated propaganda...


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## beijingwalker

Mirzah said:


> what will those cherry picked pictures prove? There are no concentration camps, there is no forced labor? It's all western lies and conspiracy against China ?


Those are daily life pics in Xinjiang which everyone visits Xinjiang will see. Only western media uses cherry picked and fake photos against China. Yes, their lies and conspiracies against China is a well known fact.

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## Clutch



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## Clutch



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## vi-va

Clutch said:


>

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## vi-va

The American criminal justice system holds almost *2.3 million* people in *1,833 state prisons*, *110 federal prisons*, *1,772 juvenile correctional facilities*, *3,134 local jails*, *218 immigration detention facilities*, and *80 Indian Country jails* as well as in *military prisons, civil commitment centers, state psychiatric hospitals, and prisons* in the U.S. territories.


*https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html*






*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_United_States_state_prisons*

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## Indos

vi-va said:


> This is also Xinjiang
> http://www.mafengwo.cn/gonglve/ziyouxing/252235.html
> 
> View attachment 658735
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My mother want to visit Xin Jiang, he visited Beijing November last year. She will likely visit it with my sister inshaAllah. 

Talking about Uigyur, Indonesian foreign minister is quite active asking about Uigyur to Chinese ambassador and also Chinese foreign minister.

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## beijingwalker

Indos said:


> My mother want to visit Xin Jiang, he visited Beijing November last year. She will likely visit it with my sister inshaAllah.
> 
> Talking about Uigyur, Indonesian foreign minister is quite active asking about Uigyur to Chinese ambassador and also Chinese foreign minister.


*Indonesia Won’t Intervene in China’s Affairs over Uyghurs, Presidential Chief of Staff Says*
Arie Firdaus
Jakarta
2019-12-23
https://theunionjournal.com/indones...ver-uyghurs-presidential-chief-of-staff-says/

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## Rajputana_

Isnt ot how the world work


Vanguard One said:


> *Nations that claim to be defenders of the faith offer no protest to the concentration camps*
> 
> Sat 4 Jul 2020 19.00 BSTLast modified on Sat 4 Jul 2020 20.20 BST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of China’s ‘re-education’ centres in Dabancheng, Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region. Photograph: Thomas Peter/Reuters
> When China imposed trade sanctions on Norway in 2010 for honouring the imprisoned dissident Liu Xiaobo with the Nobel peace prize, it spat out a word we weren’t used to hearing from propagandists for an atheist communist regime, but should get used to today. “It’s a blasphemy,” a party mouthpiece said.
> 
> Once, blasphemy was damning the faithful’s gods and sacred books. Now, criticism of the world’s largest dictatorship has become sacrilegious. You shouldn’t be surprised. As some of us tried to say in the 1990s and 2000s, the gap between the sacred and the profane was never as wide as religious sentimentalists and liberal multiculturalists believed.
> 
> They went along with the argument that it was bad taste at best and racism at worst to offend believers. You were “punching down” at largely poor and largely Muslim communities. We thought they were being wilfully blind. They did not understand how men with real power and malice were manipulating religious outrage to consolidate their rule over their wretched population. Iran issued a death sentence on Salman Rushdie in 1989 for satirising Islam’s foundation myths in _The Satanic Verses._ Its theocratic dictator, Ayatollah Khomeini, was augmenting his powers by claiming to speak for the Muslim world, as well as taking aim at novelists. When the Danish newspaper _Jyllands-Posten_ published largely innocuous cartoons of Muhammad in 2005, to assert the right to mock religion, the Egyptian and Syrian dictators, Hosni Mubarak and Bashar al-Assad, turned a local argument into a global campaign against Denmark. The cries of rage usefully distracted from their corruption and misrule. I could add further examples but they tell the same story. Authoritarian politics and authoritarian religion are just two sides of the same debased coin.
> 
> China has stripped away the religious justifications to reveal what was once half-hidden: unadorned and unstoppable power. In many countries, criticising China is the new blasphemy. Nowhere can you see the power more nakedly displayed than in Muslim-majority regimes. Once, they tried to murder blasphemous novelists and screamed about their desire to defend the prophet from the smallest insult. Today, they bend their knees and bite their tongues as China engages in unspeakable atrocities against the largely Muslim Uighur population of western China.
> 
> One of the great crimes of the 21st century is being committed in front of our eyes. We see it, yet we don’t register it. The Chinese Communist party is reverting to type, and reviving the totalitarian fear of the Mao era. To bring down numbers of the largely Muslim Uighurs of Xinjiang, the China scholar Adrian Zenz reports, the Communists are forcing women to be sterilised or fitted with contraceptive devices. If they resist, the state sends them to join the one million Uighur people and other Muslim minorities detained in what the state defines as “re-education” camps. A BBC investigation found that China was separating children from their families so they grew up without understanding Islam.
> 
> Xinjiang without taking extraordinary risks. With no footage of their suffering, millions can suffer unnoticed in the dark.
> 
> But the main reasons why Muslims suffer in silence is that the Muslim-majority countries that raged against Rushdie, _Jyllands-Posten_ and _Charlie Hebdo_ have decided to stay silent. They use the idea of Muslim solidarity only when it suits them.
> 
> In July 2019, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Algeria and other Muslim-majority states that pose as defenders of the faith helped to block a western motion at the United Nations calling for China to allow “independent international observers” into the Xinjiang region. Iran issues occasional criticisms but wants Chinese support in its struggle against the Trump administration and so keeps its complaints coded. Their hypocrisy is almost funny, if you take your humour black. Iran, Egypt, Syria and dozens of other countries that could not tolerate a magical realist novel can live with the mass sterilisation of Muslim women. They will give concentration camps a conniving wink of approval, but draw the line at cartoons in a Danish newspaper.
> 
> Many have been bought off. China is now a more active and influential voice at the United Nations because so many countries are benefiting from billions of dollars in Chinese investments through its “Belt and Road” infrastructure programme. As Norway found in 2010, and Australia found this year when it asked for an international inquiry into the origins of Covid-19, those who blaspheme against China face cyber-attacks and sanctions. Better to take the rewards and avoid the punishments.
> 
> Following the money, however, can lead you into a dead end. In a survey of China’s growing power, the _Economist_ noted it was making the world safe for autocracy. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, for example, keeps his conservative base happy in Turkey by posing as an ostentatiously Islamic strongman. But he is not likely to condemn the abuse of Muslims by China when he is just as keen on abusing the rights of his domestic opponents. The Chinese world order appeals to the freemasonry of publicity-shy sadists. You say nothing about what we do to our subject people and we will say nothing about what you do to yours.
> 
> “The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas – uncertainty, progress, change – into crimes,” said Salman Rushdie when he was in fear of his life in 1990. He was talking about conservative Islam. China is now turning criticism of its disastrous record on incubating the Covid-19 virus and its atrocities against its Muslim minorities into crimes, and the people who should be shouting the loudest are bowing their heads in reverential silence.
> 
> •Nick Cohen is an Observer columnist
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ates-stay-silent-over-chinas-uighur-brutality


S


Vanguard One said:


> *Nations that claim to be defenders of the faith offer no protest to the concentration camps*
> 
> Sat 4 Jul 2020 19.00 BSTLast modified on Sat 4 Jul 2020 20.20 BST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of China’s ‘re-education’ centres in Dabancheng, Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region. Photograph: Thomas Peter/Reuters
> When China imposed trade sanctions on Norway in 2010 for honouring the imprisoned dissident Liu Xiaobo with the Nobel peace prize, it spat out a word we weren’t used to hearing from propagandists for an atheist communist regime, but should get used to today. “It’s a blasphemy,” a party mouthpiece said.
> 
> Once, blasphemy was damning the faithful’s gods and sacred books. Now, criticism of the world’s largest dictatorship has become sacrilegious. You shouldn’t be surprised. As some of us tried to say in the 1990s and 2000s, the gap between the sacred and the profane was never as wide as religious sentimentalists and liberal multiculturalists believed.
> 
> They went along with the argument that it was bad taste at best and racism at worst to offend believers. You were “punching down” at largely poor and largely Muslim communities. We thought they were being wilfully blind. They did not understand how men with real power and malice were manipulating religious outrage to consolidate their rule over their wretched population. Iran issued a death sentence on Salman Rushdie in 1989 for satirising Islam’s foundation myths in _The Satanic Verses._ Its theocratic dictator, Ayatollah Khomeini, was augmenting his powers by claiming to speak for the Muslim world, as well as taking aim at novelists. When the Danish newspaper _Jyllands-Posten_ published largely innocuous cartoons of Muhammad in 2005, to assert the right to mock religion, the Egyptian and Syrian dictators, Hosni Mubarak and Bashar al-Assad, turned a local argument into a global campaign against Denmark. The cries of rage usefully distracted from their corruption and misrule. I could add further examples but they tell the same story. Authoritarian politics and authoritarian religion are just two sides of the same debased coin.
> 
> China has stripped away the religious justifications to reveal what was once half-hidden: unadorned and unstoppable power. In many countries, criticising China is the new blasphemy. Nowhere can you see the power more nakedly displayed than in Muslim-majority regimes. Once, they tried to murder blasphemous novelists and screamed about their desire to defend the prophet from the smallest insult. Today, they bend their knees and bite their tongues as China engages in unspeakable atrocities against the largely Muslim Uighur population of western China.
> 
> One of the great crimes of the 21st century is being committed in front of our eyes. We see it, yet we don’t register it. The Chinese Communist party is reverting to type, and reviving the totalitarian fear of the Mao era. To bring down numbers of the largely Muslim Uighurs of Xinjiang, the China scholar Adrian Zenz reports, the Communists are forcing women to be sterilised or fitted with contraceptive devices. If they resist, the state sends them to join the one million Uighur people and other Muslim minorities detained in what the state defines as “re-education” camps. A BBC investigation found that China was separating children from their families so they grew up without understanding Islam.
> 
> Xinjiang without taking extraordinary risks. With no footage of their suffering, millions can suffer unnoticed in the dark.
> 
> But the main reasons why Muslims suffer in silence is that the Muslim-majority countries that raged against Rushdie, _Jyllands-Posten_ and _Charlie Hebdo_ have decided to stay silent. They use the idea of Muslim solidarity only when it suits them.
> 
> In July 2019, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Algeria and other Muslim-majority states that pose as defenders of the faith helped to block a western motion at the United Nations calling for China to allow “independent international observers” into the Xinjiang region. Iran issues occasional criticisms but wants Chinese support in its struggle against the Trump administration and so keeps its complaints coded. Their hypocrisy is almost funny, if you take your humour black. Iran, Egypt, Syria and dozens of other countries that could not tolerate a magical realist novel can live with the mass sterilisation of Muslim women. They will give concentration camps a conniving wink of approval, but draw the line at cartoons in a Danish newspaper.
> 
> Many have been bought off. China is now a more active and influential voice at the United Nations because so many countries are benefiting from billions of dollars in Chinese investments through its “Belt and Road” infrastructure programme. As Norway found in 2010, and Australia found this year when it asked for an international inquiry into the origins of Covid-19, those who blaspheme against China face cyber-attacks and sanctions. Better to take the rewards and avoid the punishments.
> 
> Following the money, however, can lead you into a dead end. In a survey of China’s growing power, the _Economist_ noted it was making the world safe for autocracy. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, for example, keeps his conservative base happy in Turkey by posing as an ostentatiously Islamic strongman. But he is not likely to condemn the abuse of Muslims by China when he is just as keen on abusing the rights of his domestic opponents. The Chinese world order appeals to the freemasonry of publicity-shy sadists. You say nothing about what we do to our subject people and we will say nothing about what you do to yours.
> 
> “The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas – uncertainty, progress, change – into crimes,” said Salman Rushdie when he was in fear of his life in 1990. He was talking about conservative Islam. China is now turning criticism of its disastrous record on incubating the Covid-19 virus and its atrocities against its Muslim minorities into crimes, and the people who should be shouting the loudest are bowing their heads in reverential silence.
> 
> •Nick Cohen is an Observer columnist
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ates-stay-silent-over-chinas-uighur-brutality



Isn't this how the world works?

Stronger conuntries dictate their subservient, history has the proof for it, present is confirming it, and the future will carry on this tradition.


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## vi-va

Indos said:


> My mother want to visit Xin Jiang, he visited Beijing November last year. She will likely visit it with my sister inshaAllah.
> 
> Talking about Uigyur, Indonesian foreign minister is quite active asking about Uigyur to Chinese ambassador and also Chinese foreign minister.


If Indonesian foreign minister is interested, why not have a trip to Xinjiang, witness the ground reality.
China has nothing to hide. Xinjiang is no Kashmir under Curfew.

I plan to visit Xinjiang next 2 weeks.

Xinjiang is open to everyone.

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## rent4country

Clutch said:


> OP... Is Western activated propaganda...




I see Chinese flooding with propaganda pictures of happy muslims like Nazi Goebbels who showed happy jewish kids in ghetto's as propaganda

*JEWISH CHILDREN IN THE THERESIENSTADT GHETTO*

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## beijingwalker

vi-va said:


> I plan to visit Xinjiang next 2 weeks.
> 
> Xinjiang is open to everyone.


I booked a ticket to Urumqi last month, then the virus hit, the flight was cancelled, no one can go there now. I checked with Urumqi quarantine office before this new outbreak, even then you had to be quarantined for 2 week upon arrival.

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## rent4country

vi-va said:


> The American criminal justice system holds almost *2.3 million* people in *1,833 state prisons*, *110 federal prisons*, *1,772 juvenile correctional facilities*, *3,134 local jails*, *218 immigration detention facilities*, and *80 Indian Country jails* as well as in *military prisons, civil commitment centers, state psychiatric hospitals, and prisons* in the U.S. territories.
> 
> 
> *https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html*
> 
> View attachment 658862
> 
> 
> *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_United_States_state_prisons*
> 
> 
> View attachment 658863



The US prisons are not labor and torture camps where you pick up people, with no due process, and send them to be imprisoned, raped, and killed en masse like what happens in China and in these Chinese camps. Why do you not go back to your paradise and send us your vacation pics from those camps?

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## vi-va

rent4country said:


> I see Chinese flooding with propaganda pictures of happy muslims like Nazi Goebbels who showed happy jewish kids in ghetto's as propaganda
> 
> *JEWISH CHILDREN IN THE THERESIENSTADT GHETTO*


You can have a trip to Xinjiang, anywhere, any time if you are not completely blind.
Those pictures are posted by visitors, worldwide. Anyone can take pictures, so do you.

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## Rajputana_

rent4country said:


> The US prisons are not labor and torture camps where you pick up people, with no due process, and send them to be imprisoned, raped, and killed en masse like what happens in China and in these Chinese camps. Why do you not go back to your paradise and send us your vacation pics from those camps?



Ccp shall not allow this to be believed!!

Good ole commies and their goebbels department will make you believe that killing your parents and your children is progress. 

(Cue the great leap backward and long live chairman Moses, or mases, or maoses whiever he was lol)

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## vi-va

rent4country said:


> The US prisons are not labor and torture camps where you pick up people, with no due process, and send them to be imprisoned, raped, and killed en masse like what happens in China and in these Chinese camps. Why do you not go back to your paradise and send us your vacation pics from those camps?


The US Prisons are the darkest side of US society. Violence, drugs, gays gang bang, anything you can't hardly imagine.

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## Song Hong

The vocal Muslms are those sicko Malays. Malays are bunch of low iq immoral people. They can only compensate their inferiority by hallucinating a evil Chinese race.

The Turks tends to hate China due to pan turkism wet dream. 

For Assad and Iran, Chinese is a God send to help Muslims free themselves against big Satan usa. 

The Gulf wahabbi have not much interest in pushing uighur agenda antagonizing China.

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## rent4country

vi-va said:


> The US Prisons are the darkest side of US society. Violence, drugs, gays gang bang, anything you can't hardly imagine.



Your Chinese propaganda only works fellow sheep Chinese. You are comparing criminal activity by prisoners inside prisons which happens the world over, to your government kidnapping and picking up people with no due process, torturing, killing, organ harvesting, raping Muslim women in these illegal camps.

Why don't you go back and sends some happy pics from the Chinese labor camps to prove us wrong?

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## ozranger

vi-va said:


> You can have a trip to Xinjiang, anywhere, any time if you are not completely blind.
> Those pictures are posted by visitors, worldwide. Anyone can take pictures, so do you.



Apparently it is very hurting to the elite Americans that the Chinese Government mostly fixed the terrorism problem in Xinjiang by very strong social economic efforts.

Evidently lots of visitor video clips on YouTube show that the Uighur people are striving to make more money and get their lives better. Tourism is booming in that area. People can see the facts, record them and present them to the world using modern technologies.

That's very sad to the Americans though.

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## Figaro

vi-va said:


> If Indonesian foreign minister is interested, why not have a trip to Xinjiang, witness the ground reality.
> China has nothing to hide. Xinjiang is no Kashmir under Curfew.
> 
> I plan to visit Xinjiang next 2 weeks.
> 
> Xinjiang is open to everyone.


Are you actually going to Xinjiang even in these times


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## rent4country

vi-va said:


> You can have a trip to Xinjiang, anywhere, any time if you are not completely blind.
> Those pictures are posted by visitors, worldwide. Anyone can take pictures, so do you.



The world over they have found enough evidence and you are soon going to be sanctioned over it. I will take their word over a Chinese propagandist and that is not an unreasonable position to take. Why don't go back, you always seem to think we are worse off, and send us happy pics from the camps? 

China accused of ‘mass rape’ program forcing Uighur women to marry men chosen by the state to ‘promote ethnic unity’

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang, Buddhism 
*Kizil Caves*
https://www.mafengwo.cn/photo/poi/16855_263782508.html


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## rent4country

^^^ His answer to rape torture, imprisonment, and killing of Muslims is

LOOK we got pretty buildings and sculptures? Now, I'm embarrassed we let you into the US . Go home and visit those wonderful places and post pics some more pics.

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## Char

The West has failed to make Xinjiang a religious issue and another Afghanistan.

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang.
Tarim Basin *Populus euphratica*
https://www.mafengwo.cn/photo/poi/7693239.html

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang.
Dahai Daoqi Shi
https://www.mafengwo.cn/photo/poi/59193520.html

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang. 
The Mystic Grand Canyon of the Tianshan
https://www.mafengwo.cn/poi/6329078.html


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## T90TankGuy

5 pages of beautiful pic , can you post some of Muslims in the area praying at mosques ?


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## mmr

vi-va said:


> The American criminal justice system holds almost *2.3 million* people in *1,833 state prisons*, *110 federal prisons*, *1,772 juvenile correctional facilities*, *3,134 local jails*, *218 immigration detention facilities*, and *80 Indian Country jails* as well as in *military prisons, civil commitment centers, state psychiatric hospitals, and prisons* in the U.S. territories.
> 
> 
> *https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html*
> 
> View attachment 658862
> 
> 
> *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_United_States_state_prisons*
> 
> 
> View attachment 658863



Usa need judicial reform. Otherwise black life matter will keep happening every few months.


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## Figaro

jbgt90 said:


> 5 pages of beautiful pic , can you post some of Muslims in the area praying at mosques ?


The Kashgar Mosque

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang.
Kuche Dasi
https://www.mafengwo.cn/poi/342607.html

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## Chhatrapati

All fake. Everyone is happy. See the Mullahs are dancing.

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## Rajputana_

Chhatrapati said:


> All fake. Everyone is happy. See the Mullahs are dancing.
> View attachment 658937


 

The ccp strikes again!

China is the new paradise for Moslems. We will soon have the Syrians running for chinese visas instead of flooding europe.

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## PradoTLC

The real question is why does the west stay quiet over India's atrocities towards muslim Kashmiris?

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## vi-va

This is also Xinjiang.
Kuqa

https://www.mafengwo.cn/poi/6329090.html

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## PradoTLC

rent4country said:


> I see Chinese flooding with propaganda pictures of happy muslims like Nazi Goebbels who showed happy jewish kids in ghetto's as propaganda
> 
> *JEWISH CHILDREN IN THE THERESIENSTADT GHETTO*








Happy muslims under US rule...

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## PradoTLC

jbgt90 said:


> 5 pages of beautiful pic , can you post some of Muslims in the area praying at mosques ?




hilarious coming from you lot... you blow up mosques shamelessly.. and then you do this?

*Ayodhya awaits Modi’s launch of Ram temple construction*

https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...f-ram-temple-construction/article32271388.ece



dam you guys are such hypocrites.. with what face do you talk to china?

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## mmr

PradoTLC said:


> hilarious coming from you lot... you blow up mosques shamelessly.. and then you do this?
> 
> *Ayodhya awaits Modi’s launch of Ram temple construction*
> 
> https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...f-ram-temple-construction/article32271388.ece
> 
> 
> 
> dam you guys are such hypocrites.. with what face do you talk to china?


Let them bark. 

No one takes these indians and some random indian dude hiding under us flag worried about muslims.

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## PradoTLC

mmr said:


> Let them bark.
> 
> No one takes these indians and some random indian dude hiding under us flag worried about muslims.




true... for people who know

keep in mind most people in the west are ignorant about india's true face... alot has to with their dishonest media

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## masterchief_mirza

The real question is why do Indians suddenly have such concern for uighurs, who themselves gladly partake in defending China's borders and brutal beatings to death of Indian soldiers?

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

vi-va said:


> @Mangus Ortus Novem, @Yankee-stani , @Nilgiri
> 
> @beijingwalker @eldarlmari @rott @Beast @LKJ86 @eldarlmari @PeacefulWar @CHN Bamboo @ChineseTiger1986 @Char @bbccdd1470 @Raphael @925boy @Feng Leng @IblinI @JSCh @kankan326 @LKJ86 @lonelyman @Menthol @Nan Yang @ozranger @powastick @Raphael @rott @Ryan @S10 @shi12jun @Stranagor @TaiShang @xuxu1457 @艹艹艹 @Han Patriot @Chinese-Dragon @Daniel808 @hirobo2 @FairAndUnbiased @Feng Leng @Figaro @IblinI @Kai Liu @Leishangthem @lonelyman @moweike @powastick @Raphael @Ryan @serenity @siegecrossbow @ToddBing @TOTUU @Song Hong @tower9 @ZeEa5KPul @zhxy @帅的一匹 @casual @sinait
> 
> @Shantanu_Left *@**Joe Sheare**r *@Naofumi
> 
> @Indos
> 
> *@**Rasengan** @zectech @FuturePAF @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakFactor @KAL-EL @Nein @**Pan-Islamic-Pakistan** @Aspen @BATMAN @**Imran Khan** @**KeyBORED Warrior** @**masterchief_mirza** @PakSword *
> 
> *@Bengal71 *
> 
> @waz @*Arsalan** @Deino *
> 
> @Piotr @*mohammad** @**Philosopher** @**mohsen** @Sina-1 @Sineva*
> 
> @*OldTwilight*
> 
> @HannibalBarca
> 
> @*Mista*
> 
> @*TruthHurtz*
> 
> @*xenon54*
> 
> @Viet @Viva_Viet @xiao qi






Source of the OP is the guardian newspaper. The guardian newspaper also claimed back in 2002/3 that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins. Are we supposed to believe that too?

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## PradoTLC

masterchief_mirza said:


> The real question is why do Indians suddenly have such concern for uighurs, who themselves gladly partake in defending China's borders and brutal beatings to death of Indian soldiers?




they dont..

they are playing dirty politics. 

Indians care as much about muslim in China, as they care about muslims Kashmir , Afghanistan and so.

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## vi-va

Figaro said:


> Are you actually going to Xinjiang even in these times


yes. also Xi'an as well.

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## babajees

Yet another proof. Unfortunately, so called Muslim world (Saudia, Pakistan especially), who depend on China for many things... are silent

From BBC

China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

"
Holding the camera with his right hand, he reveals his dirty clothes, his swollen ankles, and a set of handcuffs fixing his left wrist to the metal frame of the bed - the only piece of furniture in the room.



Media captionThe video Uighur model Merdan Ghappar filmed inside China's detention system
The video of Mr Ghappar, along with a number of accompanying text messages also passed to the BBC, together provide a chilling and extremely rare first-hand account of China's highly secure and secretive detention system - sent directly from the inside.

The material adds to the body of evidence documenting the impact of China's fight against what it calls the "three evil forces" of separatism, terrorism, and extremism in the country's far western region of Xinjiang.

Over the past few years, credible estimates suggest, more than one million Uighurs and other minorities have been forced into a network of highly secure camps in Xinjiang that China has insisted are voluntary schools for anti-extremism training.

Thousands of children have been separated from their parents and, recent research shows, women have been forcibly subjected to methods of birth control.

In addition to the clear allegations of torture and abuse, Mr Ghappar's account appears to provide evidence that, despite China's insistence that most re-education camps have been closed, Uighurs are still being detained in significant numbers and held without charge.

It also contains new details about the huge psychological pressure placed on Uighur communities, including a document he photographed which calls on children as young as 13 to "repent and surrender".

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## Cherub786

I'm a Muslim and I'm not silent. I condemn the genocide of the Uighurs and other Muslim minorities


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## Cherub786

It's nothing short of a genocide, another Holocaust. It's such a shame that the United States is basically the only country that has the moral courage to speak out against this genocide. Not a peep from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, etc.

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## Vanguard One

rent4country said:


> ^^^ His answer to rape torture, imprisonment, and killing of Muslims is
> 
> LOOK we got pretty buildings and sculptures? Now, I'm embarrassed we let you into the US . Go home and visit those wonderful places and post pics some more pics.



I keep asking them why they are living in the USA still to get an answer.


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## ToddBing

You can buy this sextoy handcuffs from alibaba for less than $1.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...lery_search_cps.normalList.149.1f01358eWU5vU8

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## Beast

Cherub786 said:


> It's nothing short of a genocide, another Holocaust. It's such a shame that the United States is basically the only country that has the moral courage to speak out against this genocide. Not a peep from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, etc.


Lol.. wow another delusion post try to fool the rest about US righteous. Human right champion?






The world will remember white tyrant of US against Black minority.

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## Beast

Cherub786 said:


> It's nothing short of a genocide, another Holocaust. It's such a shame that the United States is basically the only country that has the moral courage to speak out against this genocide. Not a peep from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, etc.


The world shall united and send an army to liberate Indian Muslim from Hindu monster.

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## ToddBing

Cherub786 said:


> It's nothing short of a genocide, another Holocaust. It's such a shame that the United States is basically the only country that has the moral courage to speak out against this genocide. Not a peep from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, etc.


Native American: the United States is basically the only country that do have ever commit genocide.
Never forget more than 120 million native American was killed by Europens.

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## Cherub786

Beast said:


> Lol.. wow another delusion post try to fool the rest about US righteous. Human right champion?



How is the US federal government responsible for the criminal actions of a rogue cop? The fact that he is being charged and will be brought to justice proves America is a great nation.


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## Cherub786

ToddBing said:


> Native American: the United States is basically the only country that do have ever commit genocide.



The genocide of Amerindians is the legacy of the Spanish colonialists, not the US federal government. Yes the latter did commit some atrocities against so-called Native Americans, but that was a long time ago. The US has been completely transformed into a moral nation after the success of the civil rights movement.


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## Beast

Cherub786 said:


> How is the US federal government responsible for the criminal actions of a rogue cop? The fact that he is being charged and will be brought to justice proves America is a great nation.


US is the most hypocrite country. When their policy goes wrong, they will push the blame against a few enforcer just implementing federal rules pass down from government. Tell me if US is really so liberal why the LA riot in 1994 can still repeat in 2020 of george flyod? Shouldn't it be eradicated long again with US democracy system? You are deluding yourself with US system. The leopard will never change its spot.

US democracy is also a joke. You can choose only between Democrats or Republican who both basically practice the same policy the elite imperialism of US. There is no choice. It's just a gimmick of election to fool voters thinking they have a choice in US.

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## Beast

Cherub786 said:


> The genocide of Amerindians is the legacy of the Spanish colonialists, not the US federal government. Yes the latter did commit some atrocities against so-called Native Americans, but that was a long time ago. The US has been completely transformed into a moral nation after the success of the civil rights movement.


Another BS comment. Don't take us as 3 years old kid. You want me to dig out the history book and let the world see what white American did to native American and black?

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## ToddBing

Cherub786 said:


> It's nothing short of a genocide, another Holocaust. It's such a shame that the United States is basically the only country that has the moral courage to speak out against this genocide. Not a peep from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, etc.


People from Iraq,Libya,Afghanistan:We thank US for sending us bombs for "FREE".

*A moral nation*
What a joke.

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## Cherub786

You guys are going off topic. I would be more than happy to set the record straight about the great United States from this old, debunked propaganda. But this thread is about the Uighurs of China. Let's stay focused on that topic.

What do you say about the forced imprisonment of 2 million Uighurs in concentration camps?

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## ToddBing

Cherub786 said:


> You guys are going off topic. I would be more than happy to set the record straight about the great United States from this old, debunked propaganda. But this thread is about the Uighurs of China. Let's stay focused on that topic.
> 
> What do you say about the forced imprisonment of 2 million Uighurs in concentration camps?



When Indians ask me what do I say about Indian army killed 40 PLA I have the same feeling.
Just creat a number to satisfy your superiority. And don't care whether the number is true or false.

And we are not off the topic, both face the threat of religious extremism,China uses education and US uses bomb, which is better??

No matter what you think, 911 have already gives you the answer.

And public security in Xinjiang is better and better, not a single terrorist attacks in the last 4 years . this number is over 1000 from 1990 to 2016.

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## Pappa Alpha

@ToddBing @Beast
the guy @Cherub786 you are conversing with, openly admitted in a thread that he directly receives messages from 'God'. So converse at your own risk 

@doorstar look who's back lol

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## Beast

Pappa Alpha said:


> @ToddBing @Beast
> the guy @Cherub786 you are conversing with, openly admitted in a thread that he directly receives messages from 'God'. So converse at your own risk
> 
> @doorstar look who's back lol


He will soon claim US is God and we need to obey US all the time. But he can do it himself and don't drag us in. We are not as stupid as him.

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## ToddBing

Pappa Alpha said:


> @ToddBing @Beast
> the guy @Cherub786 you are conversing with, openly admitted in a thread that he directly receives messages from 'God'. So converse at your own risk
> 
> @doorstar look who's back lol


Thank you for reminding me...Just new here, don't know the famous person.


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## Sabretooth

No one cares about the plight of Muslims all across the globe except for Muslims so I urge all the fake multiple ID rats to keep their crocodile tears for Uighurs to themselves.


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## atan651

Bad Uighurs are really good actors!


----------



## beijingwalker

Live streaming in a prison? Does US allow inmates to live stream from their cells?

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## doorstar

Pappa Alpha said:


> @ToddBing @Beast
> the guy @Cherub786 you are conversing with, openly admitted in a thread that he directly receives messages from 'God'. So converse at your own risk
> 
> @doorstar look who's back lol


this is the nature and character of this forum, newcomers often get confused due to its name having the sacred word 'Pakistan' in it. don't take it too literally, it is just a deception.
.........................................
would you believe that I just received a warning point (on the recommendation of Nilgiri) from an unknown entity for calling joe shearer a liar for lying?

confused?


Beast said:


> He will soon claim US is God and we need to obey US all the time. But he can do it himself and don't drag us in. We are not as stupid as him.


no, he does not hate China because he worships America or loves Uighurs but because he is an old Ahmadi Muslim in Canada. he will hate anyone who helps Pakistan because of what happened to his mazhab in Pakistan some 40 odd years ago.


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## beijingwalker

Free food to the birds, a new Xinjiang policy...


----------



## beijingwalker

China runs many government funded orphanages and nursing homes, college students always go to help as volunteers at those organisations after school. A Uighur college girl goes to a small rural orphanage to help in Aksu county located in a poor southern Xinjiang region.

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## beijingwalker

What China can do is to have every Chinese child well taken care, either by their parents or by the government. No even one homeless kid, not even one child beggar.
It doesn't seem to be a big goal to achieve, but China has 1.4 billion people, one fifth of the humanity.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Wonder where their parents are?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps


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## beijingwalker

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Wonder where their parents are?
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps


So you don't have any orphans in your country? How great, maybe in your country orphans just roam around the streets begging for food or going through landfills to fill their empty stomaches.

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## manga

lolz first question that comes to mind is what happened to their parents that these children become orphan in xinjiang.


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## beijingwalker

manga said:


> lolz first question that comes to mind is what happened to their parents that these children become orphan in xinjiang.


China has orphanages in every city, including Beijing and Shanghai, so India doesn't have orphanages? or you just let them roam on the streets unattended?

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## beijingwalker

Mirzah said:


> Are these Uighur children allowed to go to the mosque or they have to wait till they are 18?


Funny quesition....They are being taken care by the government because they don't have parents or their parents don't want them, what made you think they will become reglious after they grow up? Children are not born into religions.

The government will make sure they grow up healthy with good education like everyone else, provides food, accommodation,clothing, love and education, that's it. What goals in life they like to pursue after they grow up are their own personally choices.


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## beijingwalker

Mirzah said:


> We hear lot of things about ccp using repression tactics on Uighur minority in media. What is myth and what is reality? Are beards really banned? Going to mosque before 18 really banned? Fasting in Ramadan really banned? Arabic sounding names banned? Mosques with middleastern architecture demolished? Concentration camps and forced labor really happening?


China puts one third of their total population in concentration camps including infants, very old and very sick, harvests their organs, sterilizes their women, sends Han Chinese to sleep with Uighur women, takes their children away from their parents... whatever evil stuff you can think of or imagine, China does it.


----------



## manga

beijingwalker said:


> China has orphanages in every city, including Beijing and Shanghai, so India doesn't have orphanages? or you just let them roam on the streets unattended?



Orphans from xinjiang certainly raises eyebrows of anything, not sure why they(from propaganda video) are not like rest of poor chinese kids.


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## beijingwalker

manga said:


> Orphans from xinjiang certainly raises eyebrows of anything, not sure why they(from propaganda video) are not like rest of poor chinese kids.


What is your source for the "rest of poor Chinese kids?" mind to share a link?


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## manga

beijingwalker said:


> What is your source for the "rest of poor Chinese kids?" mind to share a link?


Are you telling me there is no poverty in china ?


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## beijingwalker

manga said:


> Are you telling me there is no poverty in china ?


No, China has poverty, poverty alleviation is the top priority of Xi's tenure , who said China has no poverty?


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## Mirzah

beijingwalker said:


> China puts one third of their total population in concentration camps including infants, very old and very sick, harvests their organs, sterilizes their women, sends Han Chinese to sleep with Uighur women, takes their children away from their parents... whatever evil stuff you can think of or imagine, China does it.


China should go on a media offensive to show the world what's really happening in xinjiang on the ground because right now most people are believing what western media is reporting

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## beijingwalker

Mirzah said:


> China should go on a media offensive to show the world what's really happening in xinjiang on the ground because right now most people are believing what western media is reporting


Lies will always be exposed with time, with the highest growth rate in China and planning of Kashgar being the 5th centrally administered city in China ( the other 4 are Beijing, Shanghai, Tianjin and Chongqing), the whole west will look up to Xinjiang with great envy in couples of years.


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## beijingwalker

Two Kashgar Uighur girls revisit their childhood house in Kashgar old town, they lament they would be millionares if their family didn't sell the house, very valuable piece of real estate today.


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## beijingwalker

What local people do at night in Kashgar


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## beijingwalker

Learn different cities of Xinjiang and their development levels through local Uighur girls personal youtube channels

Urumqi girl's personal youtube channel featuring Urumqi: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRc63ZkXuzAWGzaJVEe_hxA/videos

Kashgar girls' personal youtube channel featuring Urumqi: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv3QOZ6M_1-bOzzupoR48Zg/videos

Rural Ili girl's personal youtube channel featuring rural Ili: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsQRMdQd199Fh0U4tczxkpw/videos


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## beijingwalker

How big Xinjiang is? Young Uighur guy has to drive for 12 hours from Tachen to Ili to meet his girl friend, and two cities are still in the same region in northern Xinjiang.
It's all worth it after his girl friend treats him a feast at a local night night market.


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang: From the eyes of an Australian British who cycled across China*

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## beijingwalker

Kashgar girl on her youtube channel tells people that they don't have to worry about language barrier when traveling in Xinjiang, even 3 years old can speak good Mandarin now in the province.

Local kids go to two different types of schools in Xinjiang, Mandarin only school and Mandarin-Uighur bilingual school. She goes to Mandarin only school all the way from kingdergarten to college (she speaks perfect Mandarin, better than me cause I have some kind of Beijing accent).

Later in the video she goes to her little sister and challenge her with some Mandarin tongue twisters and her little sister pulls them off perfectly.


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang small town college, now almost all young people can receive higher education, check out simple small town college life in Xinjiang.


----------



## Jun

*Interview with Uyghur Independence Activist Arslan Hidayat*


----------



## fisher1

What a beautiful day would that be when CCP are utterly humiliated and defeated.

For an oppressor fate is humiliation.

Joy would be in air like when Nazis fell.


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> I would personally fight in that Jihad against these zalimeen everywhere InshaAllah and send them to their homes in Jahanam
> .


Please put the money where your mouth is, we are waiting for you here in China, don't let us wait too long.


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## fisher1

Go on Brother Eddie and Arsalan, spread the truth and let falsehood perish.

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## bolo

America is the true friend of Islam. They are in Iraq building infrastructures, hospitals and match making young Iraqi women with Americans.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Please put the money where your mouth is, we are waiting for you here in China, don't let us wait too long.



And for those who disbelieved in their Lord is the punishment of Hell, and wretched is the destination.
When they are thrown into it, they hear from it a [dreadful] inhaling while it boils up.
It almost bursts with rage. Every time a company is thrown into it, its keepers ask them, "Did there not come to you a warner?"
They will say," Yes, a warner had come to us, but we denied and said, ' Allah has not sent down anything. You are not but in great error.' "
And they will say, "If only we had been listening or reasoning, we would not be among the companions of the Blaze."


Or who is it that could be an army for you to aid you other than the Most Merciful? The disbelievers are not but in delusion.


And they say, *"When is this promise, if you should be truthful?"*
Say, "The knowledge is only with Allah, and I am only a clear warner."
But when they see it approaching, the faces of those who disbelieve will be distressed, and it will be said, "This is that for which you used to call."


The promise is true. Ask Hitler, Pharaoh, Abu Lahab and other oppressors of the past.

You're just been given chances to repent because unlike us weak humans, God is Extremely Merciful.


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## beijingwalker

Rural college Uighur girl shows what a small town museum is like in Xinjiang Aksu region.


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> And for those who disbelieved in their Lord is the punishment of Hell, and wretched is the destination.
> When they are thrown into it, they hear from it a [dreadful] inhaling while it boils up.
> It almost bursts with rage. Every time a company is thrown into it, its keepers ask them, "Did there not come to you a warner?"
> They will say," Yes, a warner had come to us, but we denied and said, ' Allah has not sent down anything. You are not but in great error.' "
> And they will say, "If only we had been listening or reasoning, we would not be among the companions of the Blaze."
> 
> 
> Or who is it that could be an army for you to aid you other than the Most Merciful? The disbelievers are not but in delusion.
> 
> 
> And they say, *"When is this promise, if you should be truthful?"*
> Say, "The knowledge is only with Allah, and I am only a clear warner."
> But when they see it approaching, the faces of those who disbelieve will be distressed, and it will be said, "This is that for which you used to call."
> 
> 
> The promise is true. Ask Hitler, Pharaoh, Abu Lahab and other oppressors of the past.
> 
> You're just been given chances to repent because unlike us weak humans, God is Extremely Merciful.


Please put the money where your mouth is, When will you come?


----------



## fisher1

pothead said:


> Lot of Pakistani girls are marrying Chinese men,
> Not many cases of CHinese women marrying Pakistani men...



We look at moon but moon doesn't look at us


----------



## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287411708374454273

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## bolo

fisher1 said:


> I know you wumao only know how to do logical fallacies but damn. Don't be so obvious


I'm not from Taiwan. What are you talking about Willis?

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## pothead

fisher1 said:


> We look at moon but moon doesn't look at us



I thought I was the one doing pot here...


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## Taimur Khurram

pothead said:


> Lot of Pakistani girls are marrying Chinese men



Not sure where you got that from

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## zhxy

Is it true? What if that's really true? What about the US and Israel?


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## redtom

It seems that the cooperation between China and Iran really frightened the Americans.

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## Mamluk

Supposedly we are also destroying Islam in Sindh and Balochistan and whatnot. It's just psychological and information warfare. Don't fall for it.

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## hualushui

These people spread rumors and never need evidence

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## ARMalik

Yeah sure, and US, Israel and EU are building mosques and converting to become Muslims, and yes of course they have not killed millions of Muslims, and not keeping thousands of Palestinians hostages.  .. yep it is the evil Chinese doing all this.

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## zhxy

ARMalik said:


> Yeah sure, and US, Israel and EU are building mosques and converting to become Muslims, and yes of course they have not killed millions of Muslims, and not keeping thousands of Palestinians hostages.  .. yep it is the evil Chinese doing all this.



America and Israel are a very special case. When you do something unreasonable many times, outsiders don't like it at first, but over time they will get used to it and feel it is reasonable.

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## ps3linux

Yeah from the start of 20th century the villains were Germans and the Ottomans and the japanese. After 2nd world war it was the communists. After the fall of communist regime it was Muslims, once they have been conquered the new axis of evil is china while Americans are the embodiment of philanthropy and just cause, they have always been the champions of humanity and human values including Islam.

I vaguely seem to remember chemical, nuclear and biological weapons were used on human either by Muslims or Chinese or was it communists

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## S10

People in Xinjiang and Central Asia used to be Buddhists and Zoroastrianists. You tell me who's destroying what. Progress is made when religion retreats.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

@waz @The Eagle @Arsalan @jaibi @Foxtrot Alpha @krash @Irfan Baloch 


Please read some of the severe anti-Pakistani and anti-Chinese comments on this thread. Severe trolling going on here.

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## casual

fisher1 said:


> Go on Brother Eddie and Arsalan, spread the truth and let falsehood perish.


This is a Chinese domestic issue. China has no issues with Islam outside of China or Muslims who are non-Chinese citizens. Domestically tho, Chinese government restricts all religion and not just Islam. You either have to register your church with the government or get shut down. Name one Islamic foreign country where China has been trying to change religiously? I'll wait.

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## pothead

casual said:


> This is a Chinese domestic issue. China has no issues with Islam outside of China or Muslims who are non-Chinese citizens. Domestically tho, Chinese government restricts all religion and not just Islam. You either have to register your church with the government or get shut down. Name one Islamic foreign country where China has been trying to change religiously? I'll wait.


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## Pangu

Tell a lie a thousand times & you will eventually believe it. Obviously cognitive function is seriously absent in some pple.

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## zhxy

Pangu said:


> Tell a lie a thousand times & you will eventually believe it. Obviously cognitive function is seriously absent in some pple.



The whole world thinks China is evil. They lie and blame China.

China has only one loyal friend, who never betrays her, is always protective and willing to sacrifice for her: *DongFeng ballistic missile*

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## Mugen

pothead said:


> Have no opinion on your opinion of the said gender of that country...
> 
> Having said that, that is NOT the reason why it is happening.
> Look at history for past 1000 years, the first indication of subjugation of women being poached...it emasculates that community once that starts happening & if it is being done unopposed, rest assured the community has already given up on any idea of standing up for themselves.


It is not exlusive to that country, women in general tend to marry/date up in looks and/or social status.

As for the rest of your comment, what you say may be true but is it unopposed in Pakistan?

In any case, for one reason or another, most Pakistani men are weak and it is down to a combination of different factors.


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## fisher1

The strawman is strong in this thread but that's what is the strategy outlined in wumao centers

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## Mugen

fisher1 said:


> The strawman is strong in this thread but that's what is the strategy outlined in wumao centers



Have you examined your own "strawman" since you only focus on one country where as there are ample examples of how Muslims are being oppressed by other countries too? It appears that you have a personal agenda which is not based on principles.

And should Muslims introspective to fix their own issues such as extremism which is sometimes evident on this very forum when a killing of an idiot or mentally unstable person is celebrated?

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## Pappa Alpha

Mugen said:


> Have you examined your own "strawman" since you only focus on one country where as there are ample examples of how Muslims are being oppressed by other countries too? It appears that you have a personal agenda which is not based on principles.
> 
> And should Muslims introspective to fix their own issues such as extremism which is sometimes evident on this very forum when a killing of an idiot or mental unstable person is celebrated?


He's an agenda rat. Difficult to ignore.

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## Figaro

pothead said:


> Having said that, that is NOT the reason why it is happening.
> Look at history for past 1000 years, the first indication of subjugation of women being poached...it emasculates that community once that starts happening & if it is being done unopposed, rest assured the community has already given up on any idea of standing up for themselves.


What a low post ... even by your standards


----------



## Mugen

fisher1 said:


> Argumentum ad hominum. At least a different logical fallacy for a change.
> 
> Good job wumao, daddy winnie the pooh is happy


My arguments are consistent. But you on the other hand constantly isolate and target one country out of the many. This shows a personal agenda, and your dishonesty. You are not fighting for the cause you claim to be.

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## casual

Mugen said:


> Have you examined your own "strawman" since you only focus on one country where as there are ample examples of how Muslims are being oppressed by other countries too? It appears that you have a personal agenda which is not based on principles.
> 
> And should Muslims introspective to fix their own issues such as extremism which is sometimes evident on this very forum when a killing of an idiot or mental unstable person is celebrated?


cause he doesn't care about muslims. he just hates china

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## pothead

Figaro said:


> What a low post ... even by your standards



Eww...I have my own stalker....

Ewww....ewwww.


----------



## Figaro

pothead said:


> Eww...I have my own stalker....
> 
> Ewww....ewwww.


Lol you post idiotic/provocative comments in basically every single thread ... so responding to your crude remark makes me a stalker? I guess this is "Hindutva" logic.

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## Pappa Alpha

Figaro said:


> Lol you pop up in basically every single thread ... so responding to your crude remark makes me a stalker? I guess this is "Hindutva" logic.


He's a pothead after all lol

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## zhxy

Mugen said:


> My arguments are consistent. But you on the other hand constantly isolate and target one country out of the many. This shows a personal agenda, and your dishonesty. You are not fighting for the cause you claim to be.





casual said:


> cause he doesn't care about muslims. he just hates china

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## Max

@fisher1 

i don't believe China is that bad, i don't believe it to be innocent either when it comes to Uyghur Muslims.

If i have to chose between two sides, i will chose China a million times over US, India and Zionist. They are not bombing Muslims, they are not invaders or occupiers, They didn't killed millions in Middle east, they are not causing civil wars in Africa. They don't poke their nose in other's affairs nor dictate how to run your country..

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## zhxy

Max said:


> i don't believe China is that bad, i don't believe it to be innocent either when it comes to Uyghur Muslims.



Do not equate Islam and Uyghur. China has 56 ethnic groups and only Uighurs have problems. They always dreamed of founding the East Turkestan state and constantly attacked, massacred and genocide other ethnic groups in Xinjiang. In the past, rebels were crushed by the 36th division. At present, they are constantly conducting terrorist attacks such as ramming Tiananmen cars, knife attacks at Kunming railway station, riots in Xinjiang. Uighur extremists do not represent all Uighurs and Muslims, but their actions undermine the image of the Muslim community in China.

Finally, Uighurs in Xinjiang have higher incomes and better living conditions than many other countries in Asia. They are also prioritized for government support in health, education and employment. If you want to know more about the Uighurs, we should go to Xinjiang and see with our own eyes, not one-way listening from the Western media.


----------



## Max

zhxy said:


> View attachment 662020



China was most liked country in the Muslim world before this Uyghur part, now China get lots of bad press which effect the thinking of people, even sometime i too get emotional.

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## Max

zhxy said:


> Do not equate Islam and Uyghur. China has 56 ethnic groups and only Uighurs have problems. They always dreamed of founding the East Turkestan state and constantly attacked, massacred and genocide other ethnic groups in Xinjiang. In the past, rebels were crushed by the 36th division. At present, they are constantly conducting terrorist attacks such as ramming Tiananmen cars, knife attacks at Kunming railway station, riots in Xinjiang. Uighur extremists do not represent all Uighurs and Muslims, but their actions undermine the image of the Muslim community in China.
> 
> Finally, Uighurs in Xinjiang have higher incomes and better living conditions than many other countries in Asia. They are also prioritized for government support in health, education and employment. If you want to know more about the Uighurs, it is best to go to Xinjiang and see with your own eyes, not one-sided listening from western media.



Not all Uyghyr support separatism, Xinjiang was much peaceful then many European countries, kinfe attacks and riots were rarity, you are presenting it as if it was some civil war, the so called CIA funded separatists were not able to find any roam in xinjiang and were roaming in Afghanistan or were busy attacking Pakistan bcoz we were ally with you, shoving down Han values in Uyghurs will not work well, they have separate culture and way of life which China should respect as it was doing before Xi.

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## fisher1

Mugen said:


> My arguments are consistent. But you on the other hand constantly isolate and target one country out of the many. This shows a personal agenda, and your dishonesty. You are not fighting for the cause you claim to be.



I don't think you understand what logical fallacy i pointed out. Or just acting stupid intentionally.


----------



## pothead

Figaro said:


> Lol you post idiotic/provocative comments in basically every single thread ... so responding to your crude remark makes me a stalker? I guess this is "Hindutva" logic.



Like I said....Ewwww...
creepy man..Ewww


----------



## AfrazulMandal

What China is doing as per state policy is terrible. Allah SWT will make sure they pay.

I can only pray for the innocents.

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## AfrazulMandal

fisher1 said:


> I wish the whole Muslim world becomes a slave to US, India and Zionist than for one Muslim to be under a Chinese.


I understand your sentiment, but this is too harsh.


----------



## Figaro

pothead said:


> Like I said....Ewwww...
> creepy man..Ewww


So you act like a kid trying to dodge my question ... well done.

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## fisher1

AfrazulMandal said:


> I understand your sentiment, but this is too harsh.



Isn't what more than half of these hypocrite Muslims are? Sitting in western countries slaves to them meanwhile worshipping China and defending it like they don't even defend a Muslim or Islam.

Offer a visa to every Pakistani and 90% or probably more will fly to US. We can go to China any day but how many go there.

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## Max

fisher1 said:


> I wish the whole Muslim world becomes a slave to US, India and Zionist than for one Muslim to be under a Chinese.
> 
> At least our deen won't be attacked. Who cares about our lives. The death of a martyr is better than eternity of an atheist.
> 
> Chinese are the fuel of hell. They don't have problem with our lands, they have a problem with Allah in our hearts.
> 
> Communism is a threat to humanity. The reason is they have no religion so they have no morality. Their whole population doesn't even know what morality is.
> 
> I saw a YouTube experiment where a bunch of kids were abducted in China and nobody gave a crap. Then a girl was abducted and people couldn't give a crap.
> 
> In Kashmir, Muslims can pray and read Holy Quran. In Xinjiang, Uighurs get tortured just for gretting someone Assalam-u-Alaikum.
> 
> I don't think even Pharaoh was as vicious and oppressive as Xi Jinping. Uighurs are forced to claim Xi Jinping as a dog so he's right there in ranks with Pharaoh.
> 
> There's mercy in Indians, US, Zionists but there's no mercy in CCP. They're cold blooded fuel of hell
> 
> And fact of the matter is ignore these wumaos and ccp supporters and you will find that ordinary Chinese want ccp to be purged from earth just like anyone else



Try harder. you are not convincing anyone. seeing is believing, i see NATO swine bombing Muslim countries killing millions, helping Israeli and bharatis,

instantly this come to my mind about your tiny brain, If Chinese are against religious symbolism in Public life bcoz of commie life style, they do against all, they don't discriminate or target Muslims especially, on other hand your crusader pagan and zionist ally especially discriminate against Muslims, look to harm your countries. look to harm your communities, try to paint you as terrorists.

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## Max

fisher1 said:


> Clearly you don't live in Pakistan or you would know how much our country is already a slave to China.



I live in this country and our people love China bcoz it don't tell us what to do or do more. @Foxtrot Alpha @waz Check this guy's where about, is he even a Pakistani?

I have been called anti China by many Chinese here for speaking for Uighur but such extremist behavior, putting down your own country and siding with NATO terrorists.

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## pothead

Figaro said:


> So you act like a kid trying to dodge my question ... well done.



Questions?
You have American flags but bats for China...

Not sure you are even qualified to question anyone when you hide your allegiance..
Sorry, I don't respect you enough to answer your questions..
Change your flags, show your correct allegiance, then we can have a discussion.


----------



## waz

pothead said:


> Lot of Pakistani girls are marrying Chinese men,
> Not many cases of CHinese women marrying Pakistani men...



You mean the very poor Christian girls from urban areas, even that’s come to a halt. Do you know how many ughiur females married Pakistani men, oh and Hui girls?
By the way I sense some mocking behind your post, which is funny considering *Indian females have statistically the highest rates of interracial marriage in the west and the sub-continent itself.*
I suggest you go scream at
*Priyanka Chopra,
Priety Zinta
Ileana D’cruz
Suchitra Pillai
Ashka Godadia
Shriya Saran
Lisa Ray
Neenan Gupta
Shana Sikander*



https://www.msn.com/en-in/entertain...es-who-dated-or-married-foreigners/ss-AAz7A1U


The women who you mock are poor, what’s with all these rich Indian women dumping you guys for white guys?

By the way do you know this guy lol?








You lot need to work on your game with your own women hahaha.

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## KhanBaba2

zhxy said:


> Is it true? What if that's really true? What about the US and Israel?



What about whataboutism.


----------



## pothead

waz said:


> You mean the very poor Christian girls from urban areas, even that’s come to a halt. Do you know how many ughiur females married Pakistani men, oh and Hui girls?
> By the way I sense some mocking behind your post, which is funny considering Indian females have statistically the highest rates of interracial marriage in the west and the sub-continent itself.
> I suggest you go scream at
> Priyanka Chopra,
> Priety Zinta
> Ileana D’cruz
> Suchitra Pillai
> Ashka Godadia
> Shriya Saran
> Lisa Ray
> Neenan Gupta
> Shana Sikander
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-in/entertain...es-who-dated-or-married-foreigners/ss-AAz7A1U
> 
> 
> The women who you mock are poor, what’s with all these rich Indian women dumping you guys for white guys?
> 
> By the way do you know this guy lol?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You lot need to work on your game with your own women hahaha.



I concur with you on Indian girls, especially ones that are drunk on liberal secular KoolAid,
Why just the ones you mentioned? I can name hundred more.

On this issue, we are in the same boat.
Process different but end result same.


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## Kai Liu

pothead said:


> Lot of Pakistani girls are marrying Chinese men,
> Not many cases of CHinese women marrying Pakistani men...


I have not seen any such couple so far, either from internet or in person... Maybe it's the marriage between Muslims...

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## Kai Liu

fisher1 said:


> And fact of the matter is ignore these* wumaos and ccp supporters* and you will find that* ordinary Chinese* want ccp to be purged from earth just like anyone else


So there are 1.5 billion 'wumao' and ccp supporters. And 99.9999% of Chinese are NOT *ordinary*... lol...

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## waz

pothead said:


> I concur with you on Indian girls, especially ones that are drunk on liberal secular KoolAid,
> Why just the ones you mentioned? I can name hundred more.
> 
> On this issue, we are in the same boat.
> Process different but end result same.



What so they're all liberal kool aid drinkers now? So have Hindu ceremonies for their weddings? 
No we're not in the same boat, and I can put up stats to prove it. Your community has far higher rates of intermarriage, your own stars do it in copious amounts.


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## Kai Liu

fisher1 said:


> Offer a visa to every Pakistani and 90% or probably more will fly to US. *We can go to China any day* but how many go there.


Sorry you can't, at least not for someone like you... lol...
For those who can:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/vlog...ians-living-travelling-in-china.567742/page-2

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## American Pakistani

fisher1 said:


> Go on Brother Eddie and Arsalan, spread the truth and let falsehood perish.


Yes yes, mulla Eddie and mulla Arslan spreading the Haq. 

@mods can all his orgasm inspired threads made into one. He keeps opening threads after every few weeks even after many members tried to logic with him. Now he have discovered his new idol mulla.

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## waz

fisher1 said:


> Go on Brother Eddie and Arsalan, spread the truth and let falsehood perish.



We have a thread for all such opinion on this matter. 
By the way has he done one on Kashmir, just curious.

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## pothead

waz said:


> What so they're all liberal kool aid drinkers now? So have Hindu ceremonies for their weddings?
> No we're not in the same boat, and I can put up stats to prove it. Your community has far higher rates of intermarriage, your own stars do it in copious amounts.



Hindu ceremonies among Indian elite are as fad as Islamic ceremonies among your elite. For a significant portion of them, it's just for show.
Come on, don't pretend you don't know this truth.

I concur on your second part. The reason for it is that we have significant non-hindu presence in India.
It lacks in Pakistan, hence you don't find this pattern.

BUT, we are digressing.
My original point was about Chinese men marrying your females VS Chinese women marrying your men. The reason for it from a civilizational POV.
Since it's POV, it's not a gospel but just my POV.


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## waz

pothead said:


> Hindu ceremonies among Indian elite are as fad as Islamic ceremonies among your elite. For a significant portion of them, it's just for show.
> Come on, don't pretend you don't know this truth.
> 
> I concur on your second part. The reason for it is that we have significant non-hindu presence in India.
> It lacks in Pakistan, hence you don't find this pattern.
> 
> BUT, we are digressing.
> My original point was about Chinese men marrying your females VS Chinese women marrying your men. The reason for it from a civilizational POV.
> Since it's POV, it's not a gospel but just my POV.



Fair enough on the fad part. By the way the Pakistani elite marry each other.

I've already clearly answered you on your point about them marrying "our" females. This is among *a very small niche community i.e. poor Pakistani Christian girls, poor Muslim girls don't get married to Chinese males. 


*

*As many as 629 victims, mainly from the country's poor Christina minority,* were forced into 'fake marriages' and taken to China, Pakistani investigators said.

*Parents are told their new sons-in-law are wealthy Christian converts*

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7754141/629-Pakistani-girls-sold-brides-China.html

https://apnews.com/87aad5d8b8f648949b9bbc8a2b35ebf2

This has been stopped by the authorities and the said men arrested. *I don't want to compare Indian trafficking figures which are far worse on every level. *
Many of these women were forced, duped etc. None of this is evidence for your assertion that "Pakistani females are marrying Chinese males much more", unless you think selling women, forced marriages are normal.

Here are proper marriages of Pakistani men with Chinese women. Yes it's on a tragic note, but anyway. 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/wor...men-search-for-their-uyghur-muslim-wives-who/

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## AfrazulMandal

Max said:


> Try harder. you are not convincing anyone. seeing is believing, i see NATO swine bombing Muslim countries killing millions, helping Israeli and bharatis,
> 
> instantly this come to my mind about your tiny brain, If Chinese are against religious symbolism in Public life bcoz of commie life style, they do against all, they don't discriminate or target Muslims especially, on other hand your crusader pagan and zionist ally especially discriminate against Muslims, look to harm your countries. look to harm your communities, try to paint you as terrorists.


Bro. Everyone bombs Muslims. Some more. Some less.


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## fisher1

AfrazulMandal said:


> Bro. Everyone bombs Muslims. Some more. Some less.



Don't call him bro.

He has an issue with bombing but has no problem if China forces Kufr upon Uighurs.


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## fisher1

waz said:


> We have a thread for all such opinion on this matter.
> By the way has he done one on Kashmir, just curious.



He's a new revert to Islam so he loves Allah and Muslims without choosing sides.






Are you going to make a thread about the suffering of Uighurs now or were you trying to attack this revert because God forbid, he spoke against China but may not have spoken for Kashmiris?.

Do you think he is a CIA agent or on RAW Indians payroll in guise of working day and night for Islam but secretly he wants to hurt Muslims by speaking against China?

Do you think anyone can be a true Muslim if he speaks against China? Is that blasphemous to Pakistanis?


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## waz

fisher1 said:


> He's a new revert to Islam so he loves Allah and Muslims without choosing sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to make a thread about the suffering of Uighurs now or were you trying to attack this revert because God forbid, he spoke against China but may not have spoken for Kashmiris?.
> 
> Do you think he is a CIA agent or on RAW Indians payroll in guise of working day and night for Islam but secretly he wants to hurt Muslims by speaking against China?
> 
> Do you think anyone can be a true Muslim if he speaks against China? Is that blasphemous to Pakistanis?



I have no idea what you’re going on about, you seem paranoid saying all this . I asked a simple question and you just went about writing all the above. Where have I attacked him? That video about India shows his neutrality.
You’re free to express your opinion who has stopped you?

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## fisher1

waz said:


> I have no idea what you’re going on about, you seem paranoid saying all this . I asked a simple question and you just went about writing all the above. Where have I attacked him? That video about India shows his neutrality.
> You’re free to express your opinion who has stopped you?



So if he hadn't commented on Kashmir, he would be on CIA payroll?


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## waz

fisher1 said:


> So if he hadn't commented on Kashmir, he would be on CIA payroll?



It would draw suspicions of course, why the hell wouldn't it? The Kashmir dispute is how old, and is also recognised by the UN, and yet you wouldn't comment on it.
Why don't you spend more of your time doing so as well.

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## fisher1

waz said:


> It would draw suspicions of course, why the hell wouldn't it? The Kashmir dispute is how old, and is also recognised by the UN, and yet you wouldn't comment on it.
> Why don't you spend more of your time doing so as well.



Perhaps you should spend more time on my post history to learn that i have done it countless times.

However, east Turkestan history is equally or even older than Kashmir and the brutalities and oppression on them is unlike what's happening in Kashmir and Palestine. It's a holocaust worst than Nazis.

I guess you and me are different kind of Muslims. I see a holocaust on Muslims and my blood boils. I don't choose sides.

A thought doesn't go into my mind that it's okay what China is doing because my country is allies with Pharaoh. Because my religion Islam is very clear. If you can't stop oppression by force, then use your voice. If you can't use your voice consider it bad BUT don't ever become an ally of the Pharaoh.

The Uighers holocaust is also recognised by the UN.

Do you think the billions of enemies of Allah will be able to aid you on the day of judgement? If not, when are you going to do what Islam says and not what your worldly benefits dictate. Or do you feel content that you could say Brother Eddie, Zakir Naik, Mullas, Erdoğan, Arsalan Hidayat and every vocal Muslim was on CIA payroll? And only your beloved Pharaoh was the truth?


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Perhaps you should spend more time on my post history to learn that i have done it countless times.
> 
> However, east Turkestan history is equally or even older than Kashmir and the brutalities and oppression on them is unlike what's happening in Kashmir and Palestine. It's a holocaust worst than Nazis.
> 
> I guess you and me are different kind of Muslims. I see a holocaust on Muslims and my blood boils. I don't choose sides.
> 
> A thought doesn't go into my mind that it's okay what China is doing because my country is allies with Pharaoh. Because my religion Islam is very clear. If you can't stop oppression by force, then use your voice. If you can't use your voice consider it bad BUT don't ever become an ally of the Pharaoh.
> 
> The Uighers holocaust is also recognised by the UN.
> 
> Do you think the billions of enemies of Allah will be able to aid you on the day of judgement? If not, when are you going to do what Islam says and not what your worldly benefits dictate. Or do you feel content that you could say Brother Eddie, Zakir Naik, Mullas, Erdoğan, Arsalan Hidayat and every vocal Muslim was on CIA payroll? And only your beloved Pharaoh was the truth?


You said you would come to fight Jihad in Xinjiang, when will you put the money where your mouth is, or you are just all all empty talk no show?

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> You said you would come to fight Jihad in Xinjiang, when will you put the money where your mouth is, or you are just all all empty talk no show?



I never seen him talk about Kashmir. I think he will fight Hindutva jihad on Indian side against us.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

@beijingwalker You remember I created a thread to show everyone how CIA is forcing American Muslim scholars to push forward anti-China propaganda through Muslim Brotherhood. The same tactic they use to shut down Pakistani voices in the US for being friendly with China.

Yet China speaks up for Kashmir and Palestine, while these 'scholars for dollars' become shy to even mention real occupation and bloodshed which is bleeding the Muslim world.

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## beijingwalker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I never seen him talk about Kashmir. I think he will fight Hindutva jihad on Indian side against us.


He doesn't want to got to Kashmir or Palestine to fight, he only wants to fight Jihad in Xinjiang *personally* as he claimed yesterday, or does he?

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

@beijingwalker

Here is the link to that thread here. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/130-american-muslim-imams-sign-a-statement-on-uighurs.604034/

I am very well connected to Islamic scholarship in the US, and I have seen genuine cases of blackmail and intimidation used against Islamic scholars by CIA and their agents in the US.

The case of Nouman Ali Khan is an obvious example. He was a Pakistani American Imam who was becoming too powerful, actually he could have become Mufti of the US, so Muslim Brotherhood man Omar Suleman and others fabricated lies against him and against his character to bring him down.

I am sure you know what happened to Yusuf Islam, i.e. Cat Stevens, Michael Jackson (supposedly he converted to Islam,) and Princess Dianna (assassinated as she was going to marry a Muslim.)

Recent case of attempted murder of Zakir Naik by Indian government also reveals how they function.

Many more strange and unexplained instances like cases against a blind Egyptian Imam for a terrorist act (how?,) Imam Siraj Wahhaj and his missing son, assassination of Malcolm X, and known case of the shaming of Muhammad Ali the boxer.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Then these people say China is the enemy.

Remember what Muhammad Ali said when he rejected the draft.

"Ain't no Vietcong call me a Nigger."


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> You said you would come to fight Jihad in Xinjiang, when will you put the money where your mouth is, or you are just all all empty talk no show?



Violent jihad happens when the leader of a community declares it. In this case, Bajwa and Niazi are my leaders and they have the authority to declare it. When they do declare it, it will be farz on everyone. Because killing anyone even Chinese military who aren't fighting you is haram and a sin and an act of terrorism. I can't pick up a gun and shoot Chinese military, i would earn Jahanam (hell) because despite their wretched deeds, God still loves them and their blood is haram on us until we are fighting in a declared war. 

Perhaps if you actually studied Islam rather than mocking Islam and Muslims all day, you would know this basic fact. 

But i don't blame you. You're surrounded by a bunch of weasels for Muslims who want your pleasure rather than speak a word of truth to you so you would learn something. You're better than these weasel Muslims, you're proud of being an Islam hater but these weasel Muslims are ashamed of telling you what Islam is all about. 

Anyway, i have been doing vocal Jihad since i joined. Speaking against oppression is a Jihad.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

fisher1 said:


> Violent jihad happens when the leader of a community declares it. In this case, Bajwa and Niazi are my leaders and they have the authority to declare it. When they do declare it, it will be farz on everyone. Because killing anyone even Chinese military who aren't fighting you is haram and a sin and an act of terrorism. I can't pick up a gun and shoot Chinese military, i would earn Jahanam (hell) because despite their wretched deeds, God still loves them and their blood is haram on us until we are fighting in a declared war.
> 
> Perhaps if you actually studied Islam rather than mocking Islam and Muslims all day, you would know this basic fact.
> 
> But i don't blame you. You're surrounded by a bunch of weasels for Muslims who want your pleasure rather than speak a word of truth to you so you would learn something. You're better than these weasel Muslims, you're proud of being an Islam hater but these weasel Muslims are ashamed of telling you what Islam is all about.
> 
> Anyway, i have been doing vocal Jihad since i joined. Speaking against oppression is a Jihad.






Are you going to speak against the genocide NATO has carried against Afghan civilians?:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53597137

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## fisher1

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I never seen him talk about Kashmir. I think he will fight Hindutva jihad on Indian side against us.



InshaAllah, i have no doubt that i and many devout Muslims will fight a Jihad against you and many other hypocrites like you who support and defend Pharaoh when Imam Mehdi comes InshaAllah. May Allah give me the opportunity to fight Jihad with Imam Mehdi. Do you think Nauzbillah, that Imam Mehdi will side with Pharaoh xi and CCP and fight against Uighurs? Astaghfirullah. I have chosen the side of Imam Mehdi from this day so i will be prepared and be a soldier of Islam when the time comes InshaAllah!!!

Allah is not unaware of what you do and what is in your heart. Dr Zakir Naik, Nouman Ali Khan and all these religious scholars you claim to represent are on the opposite side of your beliefs. They suffer racism and hatred from Chinese for speaking up for Uighurs. You defend the Pharaoh and you feel offended when Xi Jinping is called a Pharaoh. You side with Pharaoh and you fight against Muslims and the oppressed Muslims rather than be their voice.

You're not fooling me, you think you will fool God?






You made a thread on how to counter Muslims because those Muslims became a voice for the oppressed Uighurs who are being forced to declare Xi Jinping as a dog.

Nauzbillah. I have no words for your hypocrisy.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

fisher1 said:


> InshaAllah, i have no doubt that i and many devout Muslims will fight a Jihad against you and many other hypocrites like you who support and defend Pharaoh when Imam Mehdi comes InshaAllah. May Allah give me the opportunity to fight Jihad with Imam Mehdi. Do you think Nauzbillah, that Imam Mehdi will side with Pharaoh Chinese and fight against Uighurs? Astaghfirullah. I have chosen the side of Imam Mehdi from this day so i will be prepared and be a soldier of Islam when the time comes InshaAllah!!!
> 
> Allah is not unaware of what you do and what is in your heart. Dr Zakir Naik, Nouman Ali Khan and all these religious scholars you claim to represent are on the opposite side of your beliefs. They suffer racism and hatred from Chinese for speaking up for Uighurs. You defend the Pharaoh and you feel offended when Xi Jinping is called a Pharaoh. You side with Pharaoh and you fight against Muslims and the oppressed Muslims rather than be their voice.
> 
> You're not fooling me, you think you will fool God?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You made a thread on how to counter Muslims because those Muslims became a voice for the oppressed Uighurs who are being forced to declare Xi Jinping as a dog.
> 
> Nauzbillah. I have no words for your hypocrisy.









You don't care about Muslims. You just care about demonizing China. When will you speak up against the murder of the Kashmiris, Palestinians, Iraqis, Afghans etc?

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> You don't care about Muslims. You just care about demonizing China. When will you speak up against the murder of the Kashmiris, Palestinians, Iraqis, Afghans etc?



Instead just harassing Pakistanis who support China. Agenda is clear.

Mujhe yoo lagda he ke ye waqi koi gangu hoga.

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## waz

fisher1 said:


> Perhaps you should spend more time on my post history to learn that i have done it countless times.
> 
> However, east Turkestan history is equally or even older than Kashmir and the brutalities and oppression on them is unlike what's happening in Kashmir and Palestine. It's a holocaust worst than Nazis.
> 
> I guess you and me are different kind of Muslims. I see a holocaust on Muslims and my blood boils. I don't choose sides.
> 
> A thought doesn't go into my mind that it's okay what China is doing because my country is allies with Pharaoh. Because my religion Islam is very clear. If you can't stop oppression by force, then use your voice. If you can't use your voice consider it bad BUT don't ever become an ally of the Pharaoh.
> 
> The Uighers holocaust is also recognised by the UN.
> 
> Do you think the billions of enemies of Allah will be able to aid you on the day of judgement? If not, when are you going to do what Islam says and not what your worldly benefits dictate. Or do you feel content that you could say Brother Eddie, Zakir Naik, Mullas, Erdoğan, Arsalan Hidayat and every vocal Muslim was on CIA payroll? And only your beloved Pharaoh was the truth?



Oh I have gone through your history and the last time you even mentioned Kashmir was on June 21st, nearly two months ago. But to be honest that's rare as well. Now if you compare it to how many times you go on about China, it's not comparable. 
So now you're saying what's happening in Xinjiang is worse than Kashmir and Palestine,* that's an outright fallacy*. Let's concentrate on Kashmir, something you should know well. The* whole *population is in complete lockdown and brutal occupation, there is evidence of women and children being shot at point blank range, there has been mass rape, people denied medical aid etc. This was just recent;







Also I wouldn't use the term holocaust, as that means mass slaughter of a population, I'd say oppression is a fitting term. 

Me and you are different types of Muslims agreed, I am honest and forthright, don't have any agenda here. You do. Like I said before, I couldn't give a hoot about your anti-Chinese views, *it's what your views about Pakistan that are the most troubling. *
Drop the act, you were banned on for saying this; 

*"Pakistani army kills Pashtuns"*

It's clear to all. This just shows our tolerance, that someone like you can come back, even though you put on the whole I'm a pious Muslim act, I care for all Muslims, you don't, you are allies with Kaffirs etc. We've seen it all before, it doesn't phase us because you revealed long ago what you are about.

The UN has commented on the Uighurs, but's it's not a territorial dispute, I should have made that clear. I don't agree with these camps, there were other ways to solve such issues. 

As for the rest I've already commented on the issue. The people you mention, aside Eddie and Naik, I don't know every well. Naik is also anti-Pakistani, however he did speak about Kashmir after article 370 was removed.

The rest of what you wrote I've already answered in my first post and the one now. If you want to carry on talking about the day of judgment, go right ahead.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

waz said:


> Oh I have gone through your history and the last time you even mentioned Kashmir was on June 21st, nearly two months ago. But to be honest that's rare as well. Now if you compare it to how many times you go on about China, it's not comparable.
> So now you're saying what's happening in Xinjiang is worse than Kashmir and Palestine,* that's an outright fallacy*. Let's concentrate on Kashmir, something you should know well. The* whole *population is in complete lockdown and brutal occupation, there is evidence of women and children being shot at point blank range, there has been mass rape, people denied medical aid etc. This was just recent;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also I wouldn't use the term holocaust, as that means mass slaughter of a population, I'd say oppression is a fitting term.
> 
> Me and you are different types of Muslims agreed, I am honest and forthright, don't have any agenda here. You do. Like I said before, I couldn't give a hoot about your anti-Chinese views, *it's what your views about Pakistan that are the most troubling. *
> Drop the act, you were banned on for saying this;
> 
> *"Pakistani army kills Pashtuns"*
> 
> It's clear to all. This just shows our tolerance, that someone like you can come back, even though you put on the whole I'm a pious Muslim act, I care for all Muslims, you don't, you are allies with Kaffirs etc. We've seen it all before, it doesn't phase us because you revealed long ago what you are about.
> 
> The UN has commented on the Uighurs, but's it's not a territorial dispute, I should have made that clear. I don't agree with these camps, there were other ways to solve such issues.
> 
> As for the rest I've already commented on the issue. The people you mention, aside Eddie and Naik, I don't know every well. Naik is also anti-Pakistani, however he did speak about Kashmir after article 370 was removed.
> 
> The rest of what you wrote I've already answered in my first post and the one now. If you want to carry on talking about the day of judgment, go right ahead.








Bro, have you checked his IP address? He may actually be an indian troll.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Instead just harassing Pakistanis who support China. Agenda is clear.
> 
> Mujhe yoo lagda he ke ye waqi koi gangu hoga.








Question is, is he even a Pakistani or a Muslim to begin with? Funny how he is okay and fine with indians, americans and israelis killing Muslims and actually defends them.

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## waz

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Bro, have you checked his IP address? He may actually be an indian troll.



No he's Pakistani but with a breaking apart Pakistan agenda.

This was one of his posts last year. *He also stated in the past that Pakistani army kills Pashtuns. *



He is jahil because he had a troubled beginning and suffered at the hands of talibans and army. He didn't have the luxury of Oxford education, heck, he couldn't even have the luxury of education that a common Pakistani* especially Punjabi* enjoys.

There is 100% truth to his demands and his movement is based on reality, that's why he's gaining followers and respect in KPK.

*The Waziristani people have been used like toilet paper by Pakistani army especially Pashtuns dating back to when Pakistan wanted to fight Americas war against Soviets.*

People sitting in Punjab don't have an iota of clue the horrors that KPK people have gone through. They give examples of Syria and Iraq ignorant to the fact that people of KPK actually went through those conditions.

*The army is scared* and can't do anything *because PTM is innocent *and nothing like TTP. *If army tries anything stupid against them then Pashtuns will leave army which make up 80% of army's fighting force and it will probably divide Pakistan.*

So the fifth generation warfare is the tactics. Spread bullshit like PTM attacking checkpoints (failed to see a single gun in the hands of protestors) which only idiots would believe and call them RAW funded *meanwhile Kalbushan Yadev is loved by our army and given coverage on TV.*

*Pakistan army wants to have an enemy in KPK so they can then get foreign aid and dollars. If KPK prospers like Punjab then how will Army get funding and who will they fight?*

Obviously army wants peace with India and China and want* to fight Pakistanis.*
@PAKISTANFOREVER
@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan
@American Pakistani 
@Max 

Please see the above post of our dear brother.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Question is, is he even a Pakistani or a Muslim to begin with? Funny how he is okay and fine with indians, americans and israelis killing Muslims and actually defends them.



He is making allegations of nifaaq (munafiq) on me, but my posts are open and clear. I do not hide my beliefs and I am quite open with my thoughts.

Why? That is because I do not swallow US and Indian propaganda against China. China alone is the country blocking biased UN resolutions against Palestinians and Kashmiris. China is a friendly state to Muslims, and in the past few years, they have defended Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan from US actions. In addition to smaller Muslim states.

I can say I am an ally of China, and I don't feel like I need to explain why.



China is a great friend of Muslims wordwide.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> He is making allegations of nifaaq (munafiq) on me, but my posts are open and clear. I do not hide my beliefs and I am quite open with my thoughts.
> 
> Why? That is because I do not swallow US and Indian propaganda against China. China alone is the country blocking biased UN resolutions against Palestinians and Kashmiris. China is a friendly state to Muslims, and in the past few years, they have defended Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan from US actions. In addition to smaller Muslim states.
> 
> I can say I am an ally of China, and I don't feel like I need to explain why.
> 
> 
> 
> China is a great friend of Muslims wordwide.








PRECISELY!

He actually even defends the genocide of millions of Muslims by the americans since August 1990.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

waz said:


> No he's Pakistani but with a breaking apart Pakistan agenda.
> 
> This was one of his posts last year. *He also stated in the past that Pakistani army kills Pashtuns. *
> 
> 
> 
> He is jahil because he had a troubled beginning and suffered at the hands of talibans and army. He didn't have the luxury of Oxford education, heck, he couldn't even have the luxury of education that a common Pakistani* especially Punjabi* enjoys.
> 
> There is 100% truth to his demands and his movement is based on reality, that's why he's gaining followers and respect in KPK.
> 
> *The Waziristani people have been used like toilet paper by Pakistani army especially Pashtuns dating back to when Pakistan wanted to fight Americas war against Soviets.*
> 
> People sitting in Punjab don't have an iota of clue the horrors that KPK people have goneworldwide.
> 
> They give examples of Syria and Iraq ignorant to the fact that people of KPK actually went through those conditions.
> 
> *The army is scared* and can't do anything *because PTM is innocent *and nothing like TTP. *If army tries anything stupid against them then Pashtuns will leave army which make up 80% of army's fighting force and it will probably divide Pakistan.*
> 
> So the fifth generation warfare is the tactics. Spread bullshit like PTM attacking checkpoints (failed to see a single gun in the hands of protestors) which only idiots would believe and call them RAW funded *meanwhile Kalbushan Yadev is loved by our army and given coverage on TV.*
> 
> *Pakistan army wants to have an enemy in KPK so they can then get foreign aid and dollars. If KPK prospers like Punjab then how will Army get funding and who will they fight?*
> 
> Obviously army wants peace with India and China and want* to fight Pakistanis.*
> @PAKISTANFOREVER
> @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan
> @American Pakistani
> @Max
> 
> Please see the above post of our dear brother.



Thanks for your invaluable post brother. We need to find out where this anti-China sentiment is coming from and understand it. Right now it would be political suicide for Muslims to side with anyone else besides China.

Both US and Russia have proven unreliable in the past. To survive the coming years, it is imperative to attach ourselves with China. Those states which do not will be swept away by invasions, civil war, and enforced proxy warfare.

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## Sam.

A genocide of Uighur Muslims is underway in Xinjiang, but the Islamic world has chosen China's money over China's Muslims. The principle of 'Muslim brotherhood' is being used based on economic interests.

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## Vanguard One

Sam. said:


> A genocide of Uighur Muslims is underway in Xinjiang, but the Islamic world has chosen China's money over China's Muslims. The principle of 'Muslim brotherhood' is being used based on economic interests.



Do you really think they are going to speak up? When all I see on this forum are denials and bootlicking of the Chinese.

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## Unite & Defend

Indians don't have the right to speak about atrocities when they murder, rape, and attempt to forcibly subjugate Kashmiri Muslims. - Don't get me started on how they treat their own Muslims. 

Hypocrites and poor losers!

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## Mamluk

Sam. said:


> A genocide of Uighur Muslims is underway in Xinjiang, but the Islamic world has chosen China's money over China's Muslims. The principle of 'Muslim brotherhood' is being used based on economic interests.



I thought your media wants us to take care of the Muslim genocide in Sindhudesh and Balochistan first. Or China gets precedence? Ask goswami.


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## CIA Mole

You see plenty of indians in comment sections saying India should set up camps for muslims and do birth control on them.

What will happen in the end is everyone finds out that China wasn't actually doing it, and Indians end up being the only ones doing the atrocities. But West will give indians a pass because indians are dogs too and they have an indian in the white house.

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## rambro

What is the sneaky indian up to now?


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## redtom

In 1944, the Soviets secretly supported some Uyghurs to slaughter other ethnic groups. This was the reason why Uyghurs became the majority in 1949.Kill hans, destroy Huis，eliminate Kazakhs.huis and kazakhs are muslim.

Of course not all Uighurs are bad guys. In 1946, some other Uighurs cooperated with the ROC and CCP ,and defeated the Uighur group in 1944.

Because after 1945, the Soviet Union chose to support ROC in order to compete with the United States for China's support. So abandoned those Uighurs.

It is always ridiculous for Indians to talk about history. They don't talk about the reasons in advance or mention the results later. Only choose a unique time to prove their claim.


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## beijingwalker

Uighur girl shows her Uighur traditional style house in Kashgar old town, the housing price in Kashgar is just around one fifteenths of Beijing's. Incredibly cheap.

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## Dai Toruko

The British government on Tuesday was urged to "take strong action” against China over the "ethnic cleansing of Uighur Muslims,” in a missive by the country’s largest umbrella group of Muslims.

China’s systematic mistreatment "has all the hallmarks of a genocidal atrocity. The UK Government must act now,” the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) said in a statement, saying they wrote to Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab to press him to take action.

The council’s letter to Raab underlines that the situation in Xinjiang, northwestern China, where some 10 million Uighurs live, "has not improved, and as you are well aware, the persecution of Muslims continues with the forced sterilization of women and the detention without trial in concentration camps of over a million people.”

"The actions of the Chinese Government against the Uighur Muslims has all the hallmarks of a genocidal atrocity, and I fear unless strong, substantive action is taken against the Chinese Government, we will be witnessing the total ethnic cleansing of the Uighur Muslims,” it said.

The council said the situation in China is "deeply distressing to many Muslims across Britain, and indeed across the world.”

"You and the Prime Minister have recently criticized the Chinese Government over its flagrant human rights abuses against the Uighur Muslims which has been very welcome, but I fear that without a tangible action plan to address the atrocities carried out by the Chinese Government, these abuses will not stop and more lives will be lost,” added the letter, signed the group's head, Harun Khan.

The council called on the British government to assert its diplomatic power by imposing sanctions, raising the issue with the United Nations Security Council and discussing the situation with Chinese counterparts.

"The UK Government must insist on a full and impartial international investigation, and the full force of international law against the perpetrators of these atrocities," it said.

Urging Raab to "follow up your strong stance condemning the ethnic cleansing of the Uighur Muslims with equally strong actions,” the letter said the "situation in Xinjiang will only continue to worsen the longer the international community take to respond.”

It is "looking increasingly likely that we are headed in a direction which will see the total destruction of Uighur Muslim communities unless urgent and immediate action is taken,” it said.

China is accused of carrying out repressive policies against the Turkic Muslim minority in Xinjiang and restraining their religious, commercial, and cultural rights.









UK Muslim group calls for action against China's 'ethnic cleansing of Uighur Muslims'


The British government on Tuesday was urged to "take strong action” against China over the "ethnic cleansing of Uighur Muslims,” in a missive...




www.dailysabah.com


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## beijingwalker

Next time try to find a recent pic , the OP one was from almost 2 decades ago, but OP doesn't know what they are talking about anyway.

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## manga




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## Pandora

manga said:


>



You have no idea how close you hit home here . I mean dont you Indians feel any shame after what you people are doing to Kashmiris yet how shamelessly you share such videos.

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## beijingwalker




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## beijingwalker

Dai Toruko said:


> Help yourself and fix your pic complex.


People in XInjiang make a better living than you Turks. a two decade old picture won't help your cause much.

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## Dai Toruko

Pandora said:


> You have no idea how close you hit home here . I mean dont you Indians feel any shame after what you people are doing to Kashmiris yet how shamelessly you share such videos.



Can we please stay on topic here?


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## masterchief_mirza

manga said:


>


This report literally and directly equates the Chinese nation with Nazis and stated that China "spread a deadly virus across the world".

No wonder everyone laughs at Indians.

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## Pandora

Dai Toruko said:


> Can we please stay on topic here?



Can you mind your own business?

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## beijingwalker

masterchief_mirza said:


> This report literally and directly equates the Chinese nation with Nazis and stated that China "spread a deadly virus across the world".
> 
> No wonder everyone laughs at Indians.



What is this " WION "? , I recenly find many Indians pile up reports about China here taken from this channel.

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## masterchief_mirza

manga said:


>


45 seconds in...."The world stays silent". Gravitas should be asking "why is nobody listening to India?"


I lasted 1 minute. I cannot go through the brain cabbaging ordeal of watching any more of this tripe that passes off as news in India.


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## Pandora

masterchief_mirza said:


> This report literally and directly equates the Chinese nation with Nazis and stated that China "spread a deadly virus across the world".
> 
> No wonder everyone laughs at Indians.



So many of Indians when confronted openly brag about how we they will wipe out muslims from India and create a Shudh Hindu Desh. You just need to press the right buttons and Nazi inside them will pop out in no time.

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## masterchief_mirza

beijingwalker said:


> What is this " WION "? , I recenly find many Indians pile up reports about China here taken from this channel.


In most countries, news media and the cinematic industry are separated. In India...


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## Dai Toruko

masterchief_mirza said:


> This report literally and directly equates the Chinese nation with Nazis and stated that China "spread a deadly virus across the world".
> 
> No wonder everyone laughs at Indians.



Uighurs feel the same pain as the kashmiris. Aren't they muslims too?



Pandora said:


> Can you mind your own business?



Spread your hate elsewhere there are enough places for it..

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## beijingwalker

Dai Toruko said:


> Uighurs feel the same pain as the kashmiris. Aren't they muslims too?


Kurds are also Muslims , aren't they? Besides, I didn't see Turkish government talks like you do.

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## Pandora

Dai Toruko said:


> Uighurs feel the same pain as the kashmiris. Aren't they muslims too?
> 
> 
> 
> Spread your hate elsewhere there are enough places for it..



I am spreading awareness about Indians and their hypocrisy. Last time i checked it is you who is getting stomach cramps just bcz i mentioned Kashmir here. Do you want to endorse this video by same channel as above.


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## Dai Toruko

beijingwalker said:


> Kurds are also Muslims , aren't they? Besides, I didn't see Turkish government talks like you do.



All the people should have rights. Nobody should oppress for his religion.

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## beijingwalker

Dai Toruko said:


> All the people should have rights. Nobody should oppress for his religion.


If you really strongly believe those western lies, you should first take it up with your own govenrment.

*Turkey accused of deporting Uighurs back to China via third countries








Turkey accused of deporting Uighurs back to China via third countries


Uighur Muslims fear their relatives have been deported to Tajikistan, from where Beijing can more easily secure their extradition




www.middleeasteye.net












Turkey remains silent as world rallies around Uighurs | Ahval


A wave of global support has emerged for the persecuted Uighur people in China’s western Xinjiang province, but this momentum has yet to inspire any Muslim majority country, including supposed Uighur ally Turkey, to denounce Beijing’s Uighur crackdown.




ahvalnews.com












Turkey’s Beijing embassy fails to mention Uyghurs in its annual report


Nordic Monitor The 2019 annual report of the Turkish Embassy in Beijing, released by Ambassador Abdulkadir Emin Önen on Twitter, fails to include




www.nordicmonitor.com




*

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## masterchief_mirza

The last time I read anything interesting about MCB was when Iqbal Sacranie got slapped in the face at a meeting in 2005.





__





BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Election 2005 | From election launch to PR panic






news.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Dai Toruko

beijingwalker said:


> If you really strongly believe those western lies, you should first take it up with your own govenrment.
> 
> *Turkey accused of deporting Uighurs back to China via third countries
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey accused of deporting Uighurs back to China via third countries
> 
> 
> Uighur Muslims fear their relatives have been deported to Tajikistan, from where Beijing can more easily secure their extradition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.middleeasteye.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey remains silent as world rallies around Uighurs | Ahval
> 
> 
> A wave of global support has emerged for the persecuted Uighur people in China’s western Xinjiang province, but this momentum has yet to inspire any Muslim majority country, including supposed Uighur ally Turkey, to denounce Beijing’s Uighur crackdown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ahvalnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey’s Beijing embassy fails to mention Uyghurs in its annual report
> 
> 
> Nordic Monitor The 2019 annual report of the Turkish Embassy in Beijing, released by Ambassador Abdulkadir Emin Önen on Twitter, fails to include
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nordicmonitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Literally all the provinces lived in harmony then everything changed when the Chinese Government attacked.

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## Dai Toruko

Pandora said:


> I am spreading awareness about Indians and their hypocrisy. Last time i checked it is you who is getting stomach cramps just bcz i mentioned Kashmir here. Do you want to endorse this video by same channel as above.



Imagine knowing your mother and wife are suffering everyday and you have no idea where your children are..

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## beijingwalker

Dai Toruko said:


> Imagine knowing your mother and wife are suffering everyday and you have no idea where your children are..



You should take it up with your own government first before accusing others.


----------



## masterchief_mirza

Dai Toruko said:


> Uighurs feel the same pain as the kashmiris. Aren't they muslims too?
> 
> 
> 
> Spread your hate elsewhere there are enough places for it..


With all due respect, you have been deceived. 


Dai Toruko said:


>




Literally all the provinces lived in harmony then everything changed when the Chinese Government attacked.
[/QUOTE]
Good sir, you have been deceived by very simple propaganda. It is in India's interests to create an issue out of thin air in Xinjiang because India simply has no military or political solutions for the mess it finds itself in. It is evidently demonstrable that the vast majority of people in Xinjiang come out of their homes on national day waving Chinese flags, live, work and eat together and live in peace and prosperity, free from religious bigotry such as hindutva encourages.

Miscreants in any country will be locked up but we should judge a situation on the weight and volume of evidence. There simply isn't any such evidence as you or MCB or Indian media are suggesting. On the contrary, in IIOJK, we see the true sentiments of an occupied people who are living behind barbed wire every day - the whole state is a concentration camp. When Kashmiris come out on Indian independence day, they wave Pakistani flags.

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## zhxy

Feng Leng said:


> Thanks to our alliance with Iran, now we are neighbors with Turkey. PLA will create Kurdistan from the rotten carcass of Turkey!



There is no alliance. China's most loyal friend is the DongFeng ballistic missile.


----------



## GHALIB

Dai Toruko said:


> The British government on Tuesday was urged to "take strong action” against China over the "ethnic cleansing of Uighur Muslims,” in a missive by the country’s largest umbrella group of Muslims.
> 
> China’s systematic mistreatment "has all the hallmarks of a genocidal atrocity. The UK Government must act now,” the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) said in a statement, saying they wrote to Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab to press him to take action.
> 
> The council’s letter to Raab underlines that the situation in Xinjiang, northwestern China, where some 10 million Uighurs live, "has not improved, and as you are well aware, the persecution of Muslims continues with the forced sterilization of women and the detention without trial in concentration camps of over a million people.”
> 
> "The actions of the Chinese Government against the Uighur Muslims has all the hallmarks of a genocidal atrocity, and I fear unless strong, substantive action is taken against the Chinese Government, we will be witnessing the total ethnic cleansing of the Uighur Muslims,” it said.
> 
> The council said the situation in China is "deeply distressing to many Muslims across Britain, and indeed across the world.”
> 
> "You and the Prime Minister have recently criticized the Chinese Government over its flagrant human rights abuses against the Uighur Muslims which has been very welcome, but I fear that without a tangible action plan to address the atrocities carried out by the Chinese Government, these abuses will not stop and more lives will be lost,” added the letter, signed the group's head, Harun Khan.
> 
> The council called on the British government to assert its diplomatic power by imposing sanctions, raising the issue with the United Nations Security Council and discussing the situation with Chinese counterparts.
> 
> "The UK Government must insist on a full and impartial international investigation, and the full force of international law against the perpetrators of these atrocities," it said.
> 
> Urging Raab to "follow up your strong stance condemning the ethnic cleansing of the Uighur Muslims with equally strong actions,” the letter said the "situation in Xinjiang will only continue to worsen the longer the international community take to respond.”
> 
> It is "looking increasingly likely that we are headed in a direction which will see the total destruction of Uighur Muslim communities unless urgent and immediate action is taken,” it said.
> 
> China is accused of carrying out repressive policies against the Turkic Muslim minority in Xinjiang and restraining their religious, commercial, and cultural rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK Muslim group calls for action against China's 'ethnic cleansing of Uighur Muslims'
> 
> 
> The British government on Tuesday was urged to "take strong action” against China over the "ethnic cleansing of Uighur Muslims,” in a missive...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailysabah.com





beijingwalker said:


> People in XInjiang make a better living than you Turks. a two decade old picture won't help your cause much.



all countries should help uighar muslims get justice .


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## beijingwalker

GHALIB said:


> all countries should help uighar muslims get justice .


Indians are now dying like flies, all countries should help, China would like to offer some.


----------



## Dai Toruko

masterchief_mirza said:


> With all due respect, you have been deceived.
> 
> 
> 
> Literally all the provinces lived in harmony then everything changed when the Chinese Government attacked.


Good sir, you have been deceived by very simple propaganda. It is in India's interests to create an issue out of thin air in Xinjiang because India simply has no military or political solutions for the mess it finds itself in. It is evidently demonstrable that the vast majority of people in Xinjiang come out of their homes on national day waving Chinese flags, live, work and eat together and live in peace and prosperity, free from religious bigotry such as hindutva encourages.

Miscreants in any country will be locked up but we should judge a situation on the weight and volume of evidence. There simply isn't any such evidence as you or MCB or Indian media are suggesting. On the contrary, in IIOJK, we see the true sentiments of an occupied people who are living behind barbed wire every day - the whole state is a concentration camp. When Kashmiris come out on Indian independence day, they wave Pakistani flags.
[/QUOTE]

Our brothers and sisters are suffering, and we did nothing. Shame on all the leaders of the ummah for keeping their mouth shut for the sake of the worldy benefits. Prophet Nabi Muhammad (pbuh) had already said that the day will come when holding my deen is like holding fire in your hand, but you have hold this... And then you will be rewarded for this. At the day of judgement.

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## zhxy

@beijingwalker @Feng Leng 

The greedy wolves are jealous when they see the rich family. They will slander, and use it as excuse to enter the house, openly rob all of your possessions, slaughter your family, and rape your loved one. Remember the lessons of Iraq and Syria. There's no need to argue with these filthy greedy bandits. Waste time. Prepare the gun.

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## 313ghazi

Feng Leng said:


> Thanks to our alliance with Iran, now we are neighbors with Turkey. PLA will create Kurdistan from the rotten carcass of Turkey!



Attitudes like that broke the Soviet Union and the American Empire. Chinese are high on CPP propaganda of being invincible - save it for the ceremonies.

I support Chinese success because it is linked with the success of our nation and nations allied with us, without the cost of compromising sovereignty. The day that changes Chinese allies today will see China no different to the way people saw the Empires that came before them. That will be the opportunity the Americans will use to destroy everything you have built.

Don't under estimate the devil.
Don't get arrogant.

Today you threaten the Turks, tomorrow what stops you threatening us? We worked with the Americans and undermined them at the same time. The other nations you want to make alliances with will feel the same way if you cross that line.


----------



## -blitzkrieg-

Dai Toruko said:


> All the people should have rights. Nobody should oppress for his religion.



Why doesnt Turkey take this issue to UN..The first thing Turkey should do is have a UN mandated fact finding mission sent to China. But nobody talks about it..
Where is Turkic council on it? dead silence there as well.


----------



## beijingwalker

-blitzkrieg- said:


> Why doesnt Turkey take this issue to UN..The first thing Turkey should do is have a UN mandated fact finding mission sent to China. But nobody talks about it..
> Where is Turk council on it? dead silence there as well.


Turkish government is silent but Turks on PDF are very active, they can't make Turkey to make any noise so they demand Pakistan do.


----------



## GHALIB

beijingwalker said:


> Indians are now dying like flies, all countries should help, China would like to offer some.



indians are not serving term in reeducation concentration camps , where deaths are not reported .


----------



## beijingwalker

313ghazi said:


> Today you threaten the Turks, tomorrow what stops you threatening us?


China never threatened Turkey, in China Turkey relationship, China is never the one who points fingers.

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## PakistaniJunior

I wouldn't completely discredit that source. I do believe something's going on in Xinjiang, and i hope we're able to help those that are finding themselves persecuted against. But i as a Pakistani cannot really ask for a independent East Turkestan because that is going to create further problems down the line for us. Indians though should stop talking about Uyghur Muslims being persecuted against when they bring a blind eye to the suffering they cause to Kashmiri and Indian Muslims. To the Turks here, if you want to make your case strong, especially in front of Pakistanis, i suggest you do not allow a Indian to speak up for it. We know fully well with what intent they spew their "sentiments" to us, pure crocodile tears..

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## beijingwalker

GHALIB said:


> indians are not serving term in reeducation concentration camps .


For lower caste and poor Indians, India is a big concentration camp, that's why suicide rate in India is one of the highest in the world.


----------



## PakistaniJunior

In my opinion, the best way the Chinese can deal with this insurgency is to understand muslims and their sentiments, as well as to respect them. But if it is a purely ethnic-fueled conflict then i cannot really say anything


----------



## GHALIB

beijingwalker said:


> For lower caste and poor Indians, India is a big concentration camp, that's why suicide rate in India is one of the highest in the world.




everyone is free in india , we have a secular constitution , we don't believe in concentration camp like chinese rducation camps. free chinese uighar muslims from concentration camps .


----------



## beijingwalker

If people really like to know what average Uighurs lives are, there are many Uighur personal vlog channels on Youtube, check their videos and ask them personally how life is there in Xinjiang, get information directly from the local people living there, neither from Chinese or foreign media sources.









安妮古丽


这个YouTube频道是新疆安妮古丽的官方频道，各位观众小伙伴们不要迷路啦！ 大美中国，记录生活，我在风景里等你！安妮古丽带你看遍新疆，吃遍新疆，玩遍新疆！ 未经允许，禁止盗运视频，转载请注明出处！ 标签：新疆 维吾尔族 爱生活 地址：新疆乌鲁木齐 I am a Uighur girl from Xinjiang...




www.youtube.com












凯迪娅娅


新疆维吾尔族妹子，带你走近南疆生活！感谢关注呦～




www.youtube.com












新疆艾丽丝







www.youtube.com












美丽的新疆女孩


在霍城的生活，记录简单又不平凡的故事




www.youtube.com












法特一家亲


解锁新疆，发现另一个世界 我是法特，来自新疆。 在这里我会分享不一样的新疆美食，新疆生活 喜欢我就订阅吧！ 【法特一家亲，疆来会有你】




www.youtube.com

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Dai Toruko said:


> The British government on Tuesday was urged to "take strong action” against China over the "ethnic cleansing of Uighur Muslims,” in a missive by the country’s largest umbrella group of Muslims.
> 
> China’s systematic mistreatment "has all the hallmarks of a genocidal atrocity. The UK Government must act now,” the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) said in a statement, saying they wrote to Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab to press him to take action.
> 
> The council’s letter to Raab underlines that the situation in Xinjiang, northwestern China, where some 10 million Uighurs live, "has not improved, and as you are well aware, the persecution of Muslims continues with the forced sterilization of women and the detention without trial in concentration camps of over a million people.”
> 
> "The actions of the Chinese Government against the Uighur Muslims has all the hallmarks of a genocidal atrocity, and I fear unless strong, substantive action is taken against the Chinese Government, we will be witnessing the total ethnic cleansing of the Uighur Muslims,” it said.
> 
> The council said the situation in China is "deeply distressing to many Muslims across Britain, and indeed across the world.”
> 
> "You and the Prime Minister have recently criticized the Chinese Government over its flagrant human rights abuses against the Uighur Muslims which has been very welcome, but I fear that without a tangible action plan to address the atrocities carried out by the Chinese Government, these abuses will not stop and more lives will be lost,” added the letter, signed the group's head, Harun Khan.
> 
> The council called on the British government to assert its diplomatic power by imposing sanctions, raising the issue with the United Nations Security Council and discussing the situation with Chinese counterparts.
> 
> "The UK Government must insist on a full and impartial international investigation, and the full force of international law against the perpetrators of these atrocities," it said.
> 
> Urging Raab to "follow up your strong stance condemning the ethnic cleansing of the Uighur Muslims with equally strong actions,” the letter said the "situation in Xinjiang will only continue to worsen the longer the international community take to respond.”
> 
> It is "looking increasingly likely that we are headed in a direction which will see the total destruction of Uighur Muslim communities unless urgent and immediate action is taken,” it said.
> 
> China is accused of carrying out repressive policies against the Turkic Muslim minority in Xinjiang and restraining their religious, commercial, and cultural rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK Muslim group calls for action against China's 'ethnic cleansing of Uighur Muslims'
> 
> 
> The British government on Tuesday was urged to "take strong action” against China over the "ethnic cleansing of Uighur Muslims,” in a missive...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailysabah.com








Yet the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) remained totally silent when the americans and nato genocided millions of Muslims globally since August 1990..........................another "fake" so called "Muslim Organisation"...........

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## Feng Leng

313ghazi said:


> Attitudes like that broke the Soviet Union and the American Empire. Chinese are high on CPP propaganda of being invincible - save it for the ceremonies.
> 
> I support Chinese success because it is linked with the success of our nation and nations allied with us, without the cost of compromising sovereignty. The day that changes Chinese allies today will see China no different to the way people saw the Empires that came before them. That will be the opportunity the Americans will use to destroy everything you have built.
> 
> Don't under estimate the devil.
> Don't get arrogant.
> 
> Today you threaten the Turks, tomorrow what stops you threatening us? We worked with the Americans and undermined them at the same time. The other nations you want to make alliances with will feel the same way if you cross that line.


Pakistan joined the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. The SCO's purpose is to counter extremism, terrorism and separatism. Turkey or at least some significant number of their citizens advocate support for Uighur separatism. This is something that no SCO member should tolerate.


----------



## zhxy

Feng Leng said:


> Pakistan joined the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. The SCO's purpose is to counter extremism, terrorism and separatism. Turkey or at least some significant number of their citizens advocate support for Uighur separatism. This is something that no SCO member should tolerate.




The problem with Iranians is that their ego is huge and always blames others.

He ignores the fact that many Turkish members insult, slander China and go mad when a Chinese member threatens Turkey.

The Iranians threaten Israel, threaten America, threaten Saudi Arabia ... and now claim that one day China will be like America, threatening them and attacking them. Double standards and hypocrisy


----------



## masterchief_mirza

GHALIB said:


> everyone is free in india , we have a secular constitution , we don't believe in concentration camp like chinese rducation camps. free chinese uighar muslims from concentration camps .


Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

"Secular constitution" my foot. 

Your constitution has Lord Ram appear as a plaintiff in a dispute over the status of a religious site. India is dangerous to secularism precisely because it supports one particular bunch of crazees (Hindu upper caste fanatics) at the expense of all others. China clamps down on all religious fanatics, without favouritism. China is the true secular nation. 

As for India being transparent regarding deaths, conflicts, separatists, are you for real??

India stops death certificates being issued for victims of its totalitarianism:









Indian authorities refuse to issue death certificates for civilians killed in clashes, say families


Police officials proudly state there has been ‘not a single casualty’ since Narendra Modi’s decision to revoke Kashmir’s special status. The reality on the ground is a lot less clear




www.google.com





Never mind enemies of the state, India doesn't acknowledge its own military casualties and desperately hides them behind warped tales of suicide and accidents. India is a laughing stock on matters of transparency and candour, as well as secularism. No need to embarrass yourselves further with fantastical projection of your own weaknesses onto others.

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## masterchief_mirza

zhxy said:


> The problem with Iranians is that their ego is huge and always blames others.
> 
> He ignores the fact that many Turkish members insult, slander China and go mad when a Chinese member threatens Turkey.
> 
> The Iranians threaten Israel, threaten America, threaten Saudi Arabia ... and now claim that one day China will be like America, threatening them and attacking them. Double standards and hypocrisy


No need to make sweeping generalisations. Turkey and China are Pakistani allies. It may take time for all Turks and all Chinese to realise they're actually on the same side in this 5th gen war. Until such a day arises, generalisations don't help anyone.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Layout of main area is very similar to some Pakistani and Arab houses.

Very lovely. Ceilings have a french style, is that also traditional to Uyghurs of Kashgar?


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## Beast

GHALIB said:


> all countries should help uighar muslims get justice .


Muslim justice shall start with India first.

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## beijingwalker

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Layout of main area is very similar to some Pakistani and Arab houses.
> 
> Very lovely. Ceilings have a french style, is that also traditional to Uyghurs of Kashgar?


Don't know, actually in the end of the video she invites people to visit her home if they get a chance to travel to Kashgar, you can leave a message on her channel and mabye visit her home and ask her yourself in the future.

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## Beast

GHALIB said:


> indians are not serving term in reeducation concentration camps , where deaths are not reported .


You must be kidding? The whole Kashmir now is a concentration camp.

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## GHALIB

Beast said:


> You must be kidding? The whole Kashmir now is a concentration camp.



talk about reducation concentration camps .


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## Beast

GHALIB said:


> talk about reducation concentration camps .


Lol.. your concentration camp don't have killing and torture? Or the video I post of BJP Hindu fantastic tearing down mosque is faked or CGI by Chinese?

The more u reply and I drag on this thread, the more hatre for Indian hindu by muslim. Trust me!


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## 313ghazi

beijingwalker said:


> China never threatened Turkey, in China Turkey relationship, China is never the one who points fingers.



I meant the poster. I know China and Turkey have cordial relations. On PDF they don't. 

My point is his opinion in that one post was that which we expect of American imperialists, not of China. 

China is 1.5 billion people and that means 1.5 billion opinions. The one that matters on the global stage is the states opinion.

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## beijingwalker

If people really like to know what average Uighurs lives are, there are many Uighur personal vlog channels on Youtube, check their videos and ask them personally how life is there in Xinjiang, get information directly from the local people living there, neither from Chinese or foreign media sources.









安妮古丽


这个YouTube频道是新疆安妮古丽的官方频道，各位观众小伙伴们不要迷路啦！ 大美中国，记录生活，我在风景里等你！安妮古丽带你看遍新疆，吃遍新疆，玩遍新疆！ 未经允许，禁止盗运视频，转载请注明出处！ 标签：新疆 维吾尔族 爱生活 地址：新疆乌鲁木齐 I am a Uighur girl from Xinjiang...




www.youtube.com












凯迪娅娅


新疆维吾尔族妹子，带你走近南疆生活！感谢关注呦～




www.youtube.com












新疆艾丽丝







www.youtube.com












美丽的新疆女孩


在霍城的生活，记录简单又不平凡的故事




www.youtube.com












的世界Zilala-Vlog


认证:新疆师范大学学生 简介:画油画的大女孩，热爱世界，大自然，热爱运动， 热爱美好




www.youtube.com












法特一家亲


解锁新疆，发现另一个世界 我是法特，来自新疆。 在这里我会分享不一样的新疆美食，新疆生活 喜欢我就订阅吧！ 【法特一家亲，疆来会有你】




www.youtube.com

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> Don't know, actually in the end of the video she invites people to visit her home if they get a chance to travel to Kashgar, you can leave a message on her channel and mabye visit her home and ask her yourself in the future.



In sha Allah, I will have to visit China for sure in the coming years. I am very interested in your culture and history.

I knew many Uyghurs from Pakistan when I lived there, many were studying in Islamic schools and learning fiqh. I know that many they went back after Musharraf became harsh with all foreign Islamic students in Pakistan.

I know that people of GB, who are most like Uyghurs, still intermarry with them.



beijingwalker said:


> If people really like to know what average Uighurs lives are, there are many Uighur personal vlog channels on Youtube, check their videos and ask them personally how life is there in Xinjiang, get information directly from the local people living there, neither from Chinese or foreign media sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 安妮古丽
> 
> 
> 这个YouTube频道是新疆安妮古丽的官方频道，各位观众小伙伴们不要迷路啦！ 大美中国，记录生活，我在风景里等你！安妮古丽带你看遍新疆，吃遍新疆，玩遍新疆！ 未经允许，禁止盗运视频，转载请注明出处！ 标签：新疆 维吾尔族 爱生活 地址：新疆乌鲁木齐 I am a Uighur girl from Xinjiang...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 凯迪娅娅
> 
> 
> 新疆维吾尔族妹子，带你走近南疆生活！感谢关注呦～
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 新疆艾丽丝
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 美丽的新疆女孩
> 
> 
> 在霍城的生活，记录简单又不平凡的故事
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 的世界Zilala-Vlog
> 
> 
> 认证:新疆师范大学学生 简介:画油画的大女孩，热爱世界，大自然，热爱运动， 热爱美好
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 法特一家亲
> 
> 
> 解锁新疆，发现另一个世界 我是法特，来自新疆。 在这里我会分享不一样的新疆美食，新疆生活 喜欢我就订阅吧！ 【法特一家亲，疆来会有你】
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com



I am little bit shy, etc. In following females due to my faith but I will definitely look at the links to see lifestyle of Uyghur brothers and sisters.

Thanks for the info.

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## Pandora

Dai Toruko said:


> Imagine knowing your mother and wife are suffering everyday and you have no idea where your children are..



Try imagining that for people of Kashmir who are suffering this fate for past 70 years. Plight of Uighur might have started in the last decade or so but for people of Kashmir its has been a century of suffering while our muslim ummah made its bed with India. I can tell you one thing that if Americans are fcking around in the affairs of Uighur then there is something very wrong there. US tried to install Uigyurs alongside TTP and many of them also died fighting alongside those terrorists in our tribal region during clean up ops. They allied themselves with people who used to chop heads of our Soldiers and play football with it. Tell me which country allows this sort of terrorism? Would you allow them to do the same in your country. Just bcz they are of turkic origin doesnt mean they are all saints. As of erdogan his statements are purely political on the issue.

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## beijingwalker

*Lies and truth: Vocational education and training in Xinjiang*

Last August, China released a white paper that laid out a detailed strategy for combating terrorism. The paper focused on the importance of vocational education and training centers, which were set up to redirect people away from religious extremism and provide trainees with the professional skills necessary to make a decent living. So, what is vocational education and training really about? Watch this documentary to find out.


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## PakFactor

fisher1 said:


> Nobody is denying Kashmir atrocities, however people like you deny holocaust on Uighurs by China because of worldly benefits.
> 
> You can shove your head in sand but reality doesn't change. Pakistan Prime Minister proudly says 70k(figure changes) were obliterated by Pakistan army in war on terror. But if I say it then i am a traitor with an agenda but if a Niazi say it then sadiq and ameen and prime minister.
> 
> What i suggest you to do is stop thinking Pakistanis are traitors and put a label on us. Remember we aren't slaves and not everyone worships China in Pakistan but worship Allah alone. So when you find someone who worships Allah and doesn't worship China or army and speaks the truth as it is, instead of thinking him a traitor, think of him as a Niazi and you will understand his viewpoint.
> 
> Nothing i said is new, Niazi repeats it everyday yet he is worshipped in Pakistan while for the same views, i am labelled a traitor?



You falling for Western propaganda way to often and it’s gullible people like yourself who buy into their narrative. Look at First Gulf War the girl that testified was daughter of a Kuwaiti official, which we find out later after the war. Later we find out she was trained by a firm in the US and how to sensationalize the events, etc and it was all lies.

This deceptive game has been played one to many times. And the west is trying to build a block to confront China and using this ruse to rally the Muslims — and sadly some clowns fall for this nonsense.

This same West who’s narrative your eating up hasn’t once said anything about Myanmar because of geo strategic interests.

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## waz

@fisher1 your post was deleted, as you can't behind the cloak of faith anymore. Stop mocking the faith and using it as a tool to wind people up.

*You were exposed a year back as someone who is an army hater and stirs mischief e.g. saying Pashtuns are being slaughtered by the army.
You have sympathies with disgusting terrorist apologists such as PTM, who are also well funded by foreign agencies.*
*Do you think we're going to let you come on and tarnish our relationship with China i.e. a chief aim of foreign funded orgs?*

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## PakFactor

waz said:


> @fisher1 your post was deleted, as you can't behind the cloak of faith anymore. Stop mocking the faith and using it as a tool to wind people up.
> 
> *You were exposed a year back as someone who is an army hater and stirs mischief e.g. saying Pashtiuns are being slaughtered by the army.
> You have sympathies with disgusting terrorist apologists such as PTM, who are also well funded by foreign agencies.*
> *Do you think we're going to let you come on and tarnish our relationship with China i.e. a chief aim of foreign funded orgs?*



Waz bro just ban him, we’ve had enough of these sellouts who would happily destroy our national security structure on behalf of West & Co.

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## waz

PakFactor said:


> Waz bro just ban him, we’ve had enough of these sellouts who would happily destroy our national security structure on behalf of West & Co.



Bro it's cool, let him have his piece. It's better they are on here in an environment we control than elsewhere.

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## PakFactor

waz said:


> Bro it's cool, let him have his piece. It's better they are on here in an environment we control than elsewhere.



Sounds good.

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## beijingwalker

*Vocational education helps Xinjiang men become business owners*

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## beijingwalker

Everything is through E commerce in China today, if the locals are not familiar with the internet and can not keep up with this fast changing world, they'll be forever stuck in poverty but poverty is not allowed in China.

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## fisher1




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## scherz

I am Dr. of online warrior.


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## kankan326

Another story was told.

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## scope

China detaining millions of Uyghurs? Serious problems with claims by US-backed NGO and far-right researcher 'led by God' against Beijing - The Grayzone


Far-right Christian fundamentalist Adrian Zenz helped popularize claim China detained millions of Uyghur Muslims. He says he’s "led by God" on a "mission"




thegrayzone.com





fisher1 has been banned repeatedly for posting CIA propaganda. Why isn't he permanently banned. Oh right, the mods are on the CIA payroll too.

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## Feng Leng

Just remember we will hunt down terrorists wherever you are in the world!

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## scope

Only people with anti China agendas and fools would trust anything coming from the biggest liars and war criminals on earth. America is the world's most sadistic terrorist and threat to humanity.





Inside America's Meddling Machine: NED, the US-Funded Org Interfering in Elections Across the Globe

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## TNT

Here comes an RSS rat pretending to care and worry about chinese muslims.

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## Patriot forever

T|/|T said:


> Here comes an RSS rat pretending to care and worry about chinese muslims.


He is a Plmn/RSS propagandist. The collaboration between Plmn media cell / journalists (Ahmed Noorani, Gul Bukhari etc) and RSS is so obvious I don't know why people don't highlight it more often.

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## S10

In 1953, there were approximately 3.7 million Uyghurs living in Xinjiang. By year 2000, there were 8.4 million Uyghurs. By 2017, there were 12 million Uyghurs. These aren't even Chinese government sources, but from scholarly article or independent report below:



https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02634939008400689?journalCode=ccas20




https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/431a/96153009b330bfea29a2fadd980750a6edf9.pdf



12 million (2017) divided by 3.7 million (1953) = *324% increase in Uyghur population*

If this was a genocide against Uyghurs, it must be the worst failure in the history of humanity. You'd have to be brain damaged to believe the "genocide" bullshit.

If you think these "Free East Turkestan" individuals care about you, this is what they did to fellow Muslims:




__





Kizil massacre - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Traditionally, Uyghurs had a history of conflict with other Muslims (Hui and Kazakhs) in the region. They're violent Turkic nationalists pretending to being oppressed as Muslims to generate sympathy from foreign suckers.

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## -blitzkrieg-

*سنکیانگ میں چینی کامیابیاں*

سنکیانگ چین کا رقبے کے لحاظ سے سب سے بڑاعلاقہ ہے۔ اس کا ایریا پاکستان سے تقریباً ڈیڑھ گنا بڑا ہے مگر آبادی صرف 22 ملین ہے۔ ٹوٹل آبادی کا 46 فیصد اوغر مسلمان ہیں جو ایک ترکی لہجہ بولتے ہیں۔ سنکیانگ کی اہمیت ہمارے لیے یوں بھی زیادہ ہے کہ یہاں سے سی پیک کا آغاز ہوتا ہے۔ سنکیانگ ہمارے گلگت بلتستان سے آگے شروع ہو جاتا ہے۔ یہ علاقہ معدنی دولت سے مالا مال ہے اور تیزی سے ترقی کر رہا ہے۔ 2009ء سے لے کر 2016ء تک یہ صوبہ انتہا پسندی اور دہشت گردی کا شکار رہا مگر اب اس پر مکمل قابو پا لیا گیا ہے۔ لہٰذا ہمارے لیے اس صوبے کی کہانی دلچسپی سے خالی نہیں۔میں دو مرتبہ سنکیانگ گیا ہوں۔ ارمچی اور کاشغر میں گھوم پھر کر خوب دیکھا ہے۔ مغربی میڈیا میں یہ پراپیگنڈا عام ہے کہ سنکیانگ میں علیحدگی پسند تحریک زوروں پر ہے اور چین اس تحریک کو ختم کرنے کے لیے ہر قسم کے حربے استعمال کر رہا ہے۔ یہ بھی کہا جا رہا ہے کہ اوغر آبادی میں سے ایک ملین سے زائد لوگوں کو بیگار کیمپوں میں قید کیا ہوا ہے اور انہیں مذہبی شعائر ادا کرنے کی آزادی نہیں ہے۔ عام الزام یہ بھی ہے کہ سنکیانگ میں انسانی حقوق پامال ہو رہے ہیں۔
مندرجہ بالا الزامات کا حقیقت سے دور دور کا تعلق نہیں۔ دنیا میں جہاں جہاں انتہا پسندی اور دہشت گردی ہوئی وہاں De-radicalization Centre بنائے گئے۔ امریکہ، برطانیہ، فرانس اور سعودی عرب میں یہ تجربہ کامیاب رہا ہے۔ سعودی عرب میں دہشت گردوں کو قرآن اور حدیث کی روشنی میں انسانیت دوستی کا درس دیا گیا۔ چین میں ایسے سنٹر ضرور موجود ہیں لیکن ان کا بڑا مقصد بھٹکے ہوئے نوجوانوں کو مختلف قسم کی Skills یعنی مہارتیں سکھانا ہے۔ کوئی بجلی کا کام سیکھ رہا ہے تو کوئی ہیوی مشینری کا استعمال سیکھ رہا ہے۔ سنکیانگ میں ترقی کی رفتار بہت تیز ہے‘ لہٰذا ہنر مند ہاتھوں کی مانگ بڑھ رہی ہے۔ پچھلے سال وہاں دیہی علاقوں میں ترقی کی شرح نو اعشاریہ سات رہی۔ شہروں میں اس سے بھی زیادہ ترقی ہو رہی ہے۔ چین میں اس وقت فی کس سالانہ آمدنی آٹھ ہزار ڈالر سے ذرا اوپر ہے جبکہ سنکیانگ میں سالانہ فی کس آمدنی 3188 ڈالر ہے یعنی اب بھی پانچ ہزار ڈالر سالانہ کا فرق ہے۔ چین کی لیڈر شپ نے تہیہ کیا ہوا ہے کہ اس علاقے کو ترقی اور خوشحالی میں باقی ملک کے برابر لانا ہے پچھلے سات سال میں اس علاقے کے دس فیصد لوگ سطح غربت سے اوپر آئے ہیں۔ یہاں امید کے دیے جلنے لگے ہیں۔
اقتصادی ترقی اور تعلیم انتہا پسندی کا تیر بہدف توڑ ہیں۔ آج سنکیانگ میں کوئی بچہ تعلیم سے محروم نہیں۔ سب سکول جا رہے ہیں۔ وہ نوجوان جو مختلف فنی مہارتیں سیکھ رہے ہیں وہ عام لوگوں سے زیادہ اجرت لیتے ہیں۔ میں گزشتہ سالوں میں جب ارمچی اور کاشغر گیا ہوں اس مختصر عرصے میں وہاں واضح فرق نظر آیا۔ پورا صوبہ تیزی سے بدل رہا ہے۔ 2016ء کے بعد دہشت گردی کا کوئی بڑا واقعہ نہیں ہوا۔
عام طور پر مغربی میڈیا یہ الزام لگاتا ہے کہ سنکیانگ میں مسلمانوں کو مذہبی شعائر ادا کرنے کی آزادی نہیں۔ اس پراپیگنڈہ کا زمینی حقائق سے دور دور کا تعلق نہیں۔ صوبے میں مساجد کی تعداد میں واضح اضافہ ہوا ہے۔ ہم سب جانتے ہیں کہ آبادی کو کنٹرول کرنے کے لیے چینی حکومت ہر جوڑے کو صرف ایک بچہ پیدا کرنے کی اجازت دیتی ہے یہ قانون سنکیانگ کی اقلیتوں پر لاگو نہیں۔ ان لوگوں کو تین بچے پیدا کرنے کی اجازت ہے۔چینی حکومت سنکیانگ کی آبادی بڑھانا چاہتی ہے وہ اوغر کلچر اور روایات کو محفوظ کرنے کے لیے بھی مؤثر اقدام کر رہی ہے۔
سنکیانگ اور ہمارے صوبہ بلوچستان میں خاص مشابہت ہے۔ دونوں کا رقبہ وسیع ہے اور آبادی نسبتاً کم ہے۔ دونوں ترقی کی دوڑ میں پیچھے رہے ہیں۔ ان دونوں علاقوں میں معدنی دولت وافر ہے۔ دونوں سی پیک منصوبے کا اہم جزو ہیں۔ چین کی حکومت نے باقی تمام صوبوں سے کہا ہے کہ وہ اپنے اپنے بجٹ میں سنکیانگ کی ترقی کے لیے فنڈ مختص کریں۔ ایسے صوبوں کی تعداد 19 ہے۔ اس کے ساتھ ساتھ تمام بڑے شہروں کو سنکیانگ کے ایک ایک شہر کے ساتھ جڑواں شہر بنا دیا گیا ہے۔ ان شہروں کی میونسپل کارپوریشن سنکیانگ میں اپنے جڑواں بھائی کے لیے ترقیاتی فنڈز بھیجتی ہیں۔ ہمارے تین صوبے اور درجن بھر بڑے شہر بلوچستان اور اس کے شہروں کے لیے ایسا ہی ایثار دکھا سکتے ہیں۔ اس سے قومی یکجہتی فروغ پائے گی۔ بلوچستان اور دیگر صوبوں میں مفاہمت بڑھے گی۔ بلوچستان میں بھی سنکیانگ کی طرح ترقی کے واضح امکانات ہیں۔ ہمیں علم ہے کہ وہاں کوئلے کی کانوں میں کام کرنے کے لیے مزدور سوات سے جاتے ہیں۔ 2012ء میں مجھے بلوچستان جانے کا موقع ملا‘ وہاں ایک بلوچ پولٹری فارمر نے بتایا کہ میں اپنے فارم کے لیے لیبر پنجاب سے منگواتا ہوں۔ ساتھ ہی یہ بات بھی ملحوظ خاطر رہے کہ بلوچستان میں غربت بھی ہے اور بے روزگاری بھی۔
سنکیانگ میں چینی حکومت نے کامیابی سے بے روزگاری کم کی ہے۔ میرا اندازہ ہے کہ سی پیک کے حوالے سے بلوچستان میں بھی ووکیشنل ادارے بن رہے ہیں جو نوجوانوں کو مختلف قسم کی تربیت دیں گے۔ یہاں اس بات کا ذکر ضروری ہے کہ سنکیانگ کی اپنی برآمدات پچھلے چند سالوں میں دو گنا بڑھی ہیں۔ نت نئی صنعتیں لگ رہی ہیں۔ بیلٹ اینڈ روڈ منصوبے کے تحت قازقستان اور دیگر سنٹرل ایشیا کے ممالک کے ساتھ سڑک اور ریلوے کے ذریعے رابطے بہتر ہوئے ہیں۔ ہمارا بلوچستان ترقی کرے گا تو یہاں سے بے شمار اشیا ایران اور افغانستان ایکسپورٹ ہوں گی اور خوش حالی آئے گی۔ بلوچستان میں سنکیانگ دونوں میں گیس اور کوئلے کے ذخائر ہیں‘ قیمتی دھاتیں ہیں‘ لیکن ایک لحاظ سے بلوچستان کو برتری حاصل ہے اور وہ ہے سمندر پر وقوع اور ایک لمبا مکران کوسٹ جہاں سیاحت کی ترقی کے واضح امکانات ہیں۔ سنکیانگ سمندر سے دو ہزار کلو میٹر دور ہے۔ سی پیک کے منصوبے کا مقصد ہی گوادر کے ذریعے سنکیانگ کی روز افزوں انرجی ضروریات کو پورا کرنا ہے۔ صاف نظر آ رہا ہے کہ مستقبل میں ارمچی‘ کاشغر اور گوادر ایک دوسرے کی خوش حالی میں حصہ ڈالیں گے۔
پچھلے ہفتے اسلام آباد میں ایک مقامی ریڈیو کے تعاون سے سنکیانگ کے حوالے سے ایک Webinar منعقد ہوا۔ ٹیکنالوجی کی ترقی اور کورونا کی آمد سے ویبینار خاصے مقبول ہو رہے ہیں۔ آپ اس سیمینار میں گھر بیٹھے بٹھائے شرکت کر سکتے ہیں۔ اس ویبینار کا اہتمام پاک چائنا فرینڈ شپ فورم نے کیا تھا۔ گروپ کیپٹن ریٹائرڈ سلطان محمود حالی منتظم اعلیٰ بھی تھے اور اینکر بھی۔ موصوف متعدد کتابوں کے مصنف ہیں اور درجنوں مرتبہ چین جا چکے ہیں۔ وہ سنکیانگ کے بھی کونے کونے سے واقف ہیں۔ اس ویبینار میں مجھے سپیکر کی حیثیت سے بلایا گیا۔ سب سے پہلے ڈاکٹر شافعی حالی نے سنکیانگ کی اقتصادی اہمیت بہت تفصیل سے بیان کی۔ ڈاکٹر شافعی نیشنل ڈیفنس یونیورسٹی میں پروفیسر ہیں۔ پھر میں نے سنکیانگ میں چین کی کامیابی کے حوالے سے گفتگو کی۔ نسٹ یونیورسٹی کے پروفیسر انجینئر ضمیر اعوان نے چین اور سنکیانگ کی اصلی صورت حال بتائی۔ اعوان صاحب چین میں کئی سال رہ چکے ہیں۔ ویبینار کی صدارت سینیٹر نثار میمن نے کی۔ لنچ کے بعد ایک اور سیشن ہوا، جس میں چین اور نیوزی لینڈ سے سپیکر آن لائن بولے۔ چین کے بارے میں بالعموم اور سنکیانگ کے بارے میں بالخصوص یہ دن بھر کا پروگرام نہایت مفید اور کامیاب رہا۔









سنکیانگ میں چینی کامیابیاں


جاوید حفیظ کا کالمـ - سنکیانگ میں چینی کامیابیاں 2020-08-28 کو روزنامہ دنیا میں شائع ہوا۔ پڑھنے کے لیے کلک کریں




dunya.com.pk


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## fisher1

scope said:


> fisher1 has been banned repeatedly for posting CIA propaganda. Why isn't he permanently banned. Oh right, the mods are on the CIA payroll too.



Dr Omar Suleiman is a very respected Islamic scholar who is very outspoken about the zalimoon doesn’t matter if they're in India or Israel or China. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1163217859331469312
If he's on CIA payroll then Muslims should be pleased. CIA has become Muslim

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Dr Omar Suleiman is a very respected Islamic scholar who is very outspoken about the zalimoon doesn’t matter if they're in India or Israel or China.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1163217859331469312
> If he's on CIA payroll then Muslims should be pleased. CIA has become Muslim


You said you will go and fight Jihad against China, why you are still here talking, what's with the Jihad?


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## fisher1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299904214538174465


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## PeacefulWar

fisher1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299904214538174465


Disinformation and propaganda campaign won't get you anywhere.
If your goal not aligned with USA/CIA which they only interested in smearing China not war with China.

China rules XinJiang long before your Turks stolen Constantinople.
So arm yourself and invade China NOW. 
That's the only way to separate XinJiang from China.


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## Tom99

fisher1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299904214538174465



CJ Werlerman, the person that perpetuates Islamophobia.








From CJ Werleman's article on bylinetimes.com

‘Death is Everywhere’ Millions More Uyghurs Missing



> CJ Werleman reports on evidence that up to nine million Uyghurs are unaccounted for and allegations that the Chinese authorities plan to kill, incarcerate or convert the whole of the minority population



But there are only about 11 million Uyghurs in Xinjing.


Yeah, this muslim hater is making shits up and trying to sow discord between China and other Muslim countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## sinait

fisher1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299904214538174465





Tom99 said:


> CJ Werlerman, the person that perpetuates Islamophobia.
> View attachment 665330
> 
> 
> From CJ Werleman's article on bylinetimes.com
> 
> ‘Death is Everywhere’ Millions More Uyghurs Missing
> 
> 
> But there are only about 11 million Uyghurs in Xinjing.
> 
> 
> Yeah, this muslim hater is making shits up and trying to sow discord between China and other Muslim countries.



How DUMB can one get.
*Quoting a PROFESSED MUSLIM HATER for his Uighur cause*.




.


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## fisher1

Tom99 said:


> CJ Werlerman, the person that perpetuates Islamophobia.
> 
> View attachment 665330
> 
> 
> 
> From CJ Werleman's article on bylinetimes.com
> 
> ‘Death is Everywhere’ Millions More Uyghurs Missing
> 
> 
> 
> But there are only about 11 million Uyghurs in Xinjing.
> 
> 
> Yeah, this muslim hater is making shits up and trying to sow discord between China and other Muslim countries.



Unfortunately for you, i know about Photoshop and verified mark on Twitter 🤣

I bet Photoshop is banned in China


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Unfortunately for you, i know about Photoshop and verified mark on Twitter 🤣
> 
> I bet Photoshop is banned in China


Photoshop is banned in China? Where did you learn it?


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## beijingwalker

Korla

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## casual

Swans are aggressive and mean. Should be wasting food feeding them.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

*New research reveals absurd rumor sources of Uyghur detentions in Xinjiang endeared by Western media *





Women wave the Chinese national flag in Baicheng county of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. Photo: Shan Jie/GT

The allegations that China has detained millions of Uyghur people in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region came from unreliable studies and sources backed by US government, based on shoddy methodologies and works of a far-right anti-China and anti-communist researcher, a recently published essay in the Grayzone revealed.

"The claim that China has detained millions of ethnic Uyghurs in its Xinjiang region is repeated with increasing frequency, but little scrutiny is ever applied. Yet a closer look at the figure and how it was obtained reveals a serious deficiency in data," said the Grayzone article published on Saturday. 

While the "million" figure is widely cited in the West as authentic, an in-depth research shows it is only based on two highly dubious "studies."

The first study was done by the Network of Chinese-Human Rights Defenders (CHRD), a Washington DC-based NGO backed by the US government. The "millions detained" figure was first popularized by the CHRD in a 2018 report submitted to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, which is often misrepresented in Western media as a report penned by the UN, according to the article.

Grayzone was founded in 2015 as an independent news website dedicated to original investigative journalism and political analysis. 





An Uyghur woman dances at a restaurant in Awati county, Aksu Prefecture of Xinjiang. Photo: Shan Jie/GT

*Dubious calculation* 

While CHRD states it interviewed dozens of Uyghur people during the course of its study, their inflated estimate was ultimately based on interviews with eight Uyghur individuals, Canada-based writer and lawyer Ajit Singh and Grayzone editor Max Blumenthal wrote in the Grayzone article. 

"Based on this small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD 'extrapolated estimates' that 'at least 10 percent of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20 percent are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30 percent in both types of camps,'" the article said. 

Applying these estimated rates to the entirety of Xinjiang, CHRD arrived at the figures it submitted to the UN claiming that one million ethnic Uyghur people have been "detained in re-education detention camps" and two million more have been "forced to attend day/evening re-education sessions," the article added.

The "camps" the CHRD claims are actually vocational education and training centers which employ a boarding school model that allows trainees to go back home on a regular basis and grants leave to attend personal affairs. 

Grayzone has previously reported that CHRD receives significant financial support from National Endowment for Democracy (NED). NED is a CIA-backed US foundation which is believed to have played a critical role in innumerable regime changes across the world. 







Screenshot of a report from the Grayzone on Xinjiang

*Far-right researcher*

The second study, as Grayzone found out, relied on flimsy media reports and speculation. This study was authored by Adrian Zenz, a senior fellow in China studies at the far-right Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which was established by the US government in 1983.

"Like the CHRD, Zenz arrived at his estimated 'over 1 million' figure using a dubious methodology. He based it on a single report by Istiqlal TV, a Uyghur exile media organization based in Turkey, which was republished by Newsweek Japan," Singh and Blumenthal said.

"Far from an impartial journalistic organization, Istiqlal TV advances the separatist cause while playing host to an assortment of extremist figures." A frequent guest on Istiqlal TV is Abdulkadir Yapuquan, a reported leader of the East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM) terrorist group. 

Zenz also tries to justify his estimates by citing reports from Radio Free Asia, a US-funded news agency created by the CIA during the Cold War to spew propaganda against China, according to Grayzone's research. 

In a November 2019 interview with Radio Free Asia, Zenz even inflated the 1 million figure by claiming China was detaining 1.8 million people. 

In an exclusive interview with the Global Times, the spokesperson of Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region said the so-called scholars including Zenz actually work for the US intelligence agency, and they cooperate with anti-China forces in the US to smear China's Xinjiang policies. 

"Disguised as experts, they made baseless remarks and slandered China's Xinjiang policies as much as possible, aiming to galvanize anti-China forces in the US. What they did was beyond the academic scope - using academic research as a cover, they slandered and smeared China, which are also the old tricks used by the US," added the spokesperson. "The 1 million detention claim is a nonsense and was derived out of nothing." 





A woman plays with her granddaughter at a skiing resort in Baicheng county, Xinjiang. Photo: Shan Jie/GT

Grayzone also found that Zenz is a far-right fundamentalist Christian who opposes homosexuality and gender equality, supports "scriptural spanking" of children, and believes he is "led by God" on a "mission" against China. 

A search of Zenz's Twitter profile returns no tweets concerning the rise of Islamophobia in the West, nor US wars and drone strikes against Muslim-majority countries. The only Tweet by Zenz concerning Muslims that is unrelated to China is a denial of the double-standard in judging violence when perpetrated by whites instead of Muslims.

In a separate August 2018 report by Blumenthal, he said Washington wants to pressurize China and push the US to spark a conflict with China. He spoke with World Uyghur Congress (WUC) chairman Omer Kanat, who took credit for furnishing many of the reports about alleged internment camps in the Western media. 

In the report, Blumenthal noted Kanat telling him over "1 million people" were in the camps in Xinjiang and that the figure was offered by some Western media. Kanat also stated that WUC offered more information on the training centers in Xinjiang to the US government and Western media

In an interview with Süddeutsche Zeitung, Dolkun Isa, leader of WUC, admitted they aimed to inflict more pressure on China and force Western companies to withdraw from Xinjiang. 

"What is happening in Xinjiang today must be seen in the context of what has been happening throughout Central Asia," read a Workers World report on December 18.

Xinjiang is a major logistics center for China's ambitious Belt and Road Initiative. Xinjiang is the gateway to Central and West Asia, as well as to European markets. "The US government is deeply hostile to this vast economic development project and is doing all it can to sabotage China's plans. This campaign is part of the US military's 'Pivot to Asia,' along with naval threats in the South China Sea and support for separatist movements in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Tibet," read the article.










__





New research reveals absurd rumor sources of Uyghur detentions in Xinjiang endeared by Western media - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn





@PAKISTANFOREVER @Musings @Verve @masterchief_mirza @Dalit @Agha Sher @Itachi @rott @vi-va @Figaro @Raphael @Clutch @313ghazi @crankthatskunk @Areesh @PaklovesTurkiye @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Falcon29

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> *New research reveals absurd rumor sources of Uyghur detentions in Xinjiang endeared by Western media *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women wave the Chinese national flag in Baicheng county of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. Photo: Shan Jie/GT
> 
> The allegations that China has detained millions of Uyghur people in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region came from unreliable studies and sources backed by US government, based on shoddy methodologies and works of a far-right anti-China and anti-communist researcher, a recently published essay in the Grayzone revealed.
> 
> "The claim that China has detained millions of ethnic Uyghurs in its Xinjiang region is repeated with increasing frequency, but little scrutiny is ever applied. Yet a closer look at the figure and how it was obtained reveals a serious deficiency in data," said the Grayzone article published on Saturday.
> 
> While the "million" figure is widely cited in the West as authentic, an in-depth research shows it is only based on two highly dubious "studies."
> 
> The first study was done by the Network of Chinese-Human Rights Defenders (CHRD), a Washington DC-based NGO backed by the US government. The "millions detained" figure was first popularized by the CHRD in a 2018 report submitted to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, which is often misrepresented in Western media as a report penned by the UN, according to the article.
> 
> Grayzone was founded in 2015 as an independent news website dedicated to original investigative journalism and political analysis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Uyghur woman dances at a restaurant in Awati county, Aksu Prefecture of Xinjiang. Photo: Shan Jie/GT
> 
> *Dubious calculation*
> 
> While CHRD states it interviewed dozens of Uyghur people during the course of its study, their inflated estimate was ultimately based on interviews with eight Uyghur individuals, Canada-based writer and lawyer Ajit Singh and Grayzone editor Max Blumenthal wrote in the Grayzone article.
> 
> "Based on this small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD 'extrapolated estimates' that 'at least 10 percent of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20 percent are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30 percent in both types of camps,'" the article said.
> 
> Applying these estimated rates to the entirety of Xinjiang, CHRD arrived at the figures it submitted to the UN claiming that one million ethnic Uyghur people have been "detained in re-education detention camps" and two million more have been "forced to attend day/evening re-education sessions," the article added.
> 
> The "camps" the CHRD claims are actually vocational education and training centers which employ a boarding school model that allows trainees to go back home on a regular basis and grants leave to attend personal affairs.
> 
> Grayzone has previously reported that CHRD receives significant financial support from National Endowment for Democracy (NED). NED is a CIA-backed US foundation which is believed to have played a critical role in innumerable regime changes across the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Screenshot of a report from the Grayzone on Xinjiang
> 
> *Far-right researcher*
> 
> The second study, as Grayzone found out, relied on flimsy media reports and speculation. This study was authored by Adrian Zenz, a senior fellow in China studies at the far-right Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which was established by the US government in 1983.
> 
> "Like the CHRD, Zenz arrived at his estimated 'over 1 million' figure using a dubious methodology. He based it on a single report by Istiqlal TV, a Uyghur exile media organization based in Turkey, which was republished by Newsweek Japan," Singh and Blumenthal said.
> 
> "Far from an impartial journalistic organization, Istiqlal TV advances the separatist cause while playing host to an assortment of extremist figures." A frequent guest on Istiqlal TV is Abdulkadir Yapuquan, a reported leader of the East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM) terrorist group.
> 
> Zenz also tries to justify his estimates by citing reports from Radio Free Asia, a US-funded news agency created by the CIA during the Cold War to spew propaganda against China, according to Grayzone's research.
> 
> In a November 2019 interview with Radio Free Asia, Zenz even inflated the 1 million figure by claiming China was detaining 1.8 million people.
> 
> In an exclusive interview with the Global Times, the spokesperson of Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region said the so-called scholars including Zenz actually work for the US intelligence agency, and they cooperate with anti-China forces in the US to smear China's Xinjiang policies.
> 
> "Disguised as experts, they made baseless remarks and slandered China's Xinjiang policies as much as possible, aiming to galvanize anti-China forces in the US. What they did was beyond the academic scope - using academic research as a cover, they slandered and smeared China, which are also the old tricks used by the US," added the spokesperson. "The 1 million detention claim is a nonsense and was derived out of nothing."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A woman plays with her granddaughter at a skiing resort in Baicheng county, Xinjiang. Photo: Shan Jie/GT
> 
> Grayzone also found that Zenz is a far-right fundamentalist Christian who opposes homosexuality and gender equality, supports "scriptural spanking" of children, and believes he is "led by God" on a "mission" against China.
> 
> A search of Zenz's Twitter profile returns no tweets concerning the rise of Islamophobia in the West, nor US wars and drone strikes against Muslim-majority countries. The only Tweet by Zenz concerning Muslims that is unrelated to China is a denial of the double-standard in judging violence when perpetrated by whites instead of Muslims.
> 
> In a separate August 2018 report by Blumenthal, he said Washington wants to pressurize China and push the US to spark a conflict with China. He spoke with World Uyghur Congress (WUC) chairman Omer Kanat, who took credit for furnishing many of the reports about alleged internment camps in the Western media.
> 
> In the report, Blumenthal noted Kanat telling him over "1 million people" were in the camps in Xinjiang and that the figure was offered by some Western media. Kanat also stated that WUC offered more information on the training centers in Xinjiang to the US government and Western media
> 
> In an interview with Süddeutsche Zeitung, Dolkun Isa, leader of WUC, admitted they aimed to inflict more pressure on China and force Western companies to withdraw from Xinjiang.
> 
> "What is happening in Xinjiang today must be seen in the context of what has been happening throughout Central Asia," read a Workers World report on December 18.
> 
> Xinjiang is a major logistics center for China's ambitious Belt and Road Initiative. Xinjiang is the gateway to Central and West Asia, as well as to European markets. "The US government is deeply hostile to this vast economic development project and is doing all it can to sabotage China's plans. This campaign is part of the US military's 'Pivot to Asia,' along with naval threats in the South China Sea and support for separatist movements in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Tibet," read the article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New research reveals absurd rumor sources of Uyghur detentions in Xinjiang endeared by Western media - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @PAKISTANFOREVER @Musings @Verve @masterchief_mirza @Dalit @Agha Sher @Itachi @rott @vi-va @Figaro @Raphael @Clutch @313ghazi @crankthatskunk @Areesh @PaklovesTurkiye @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Falcon29


They broke up the Ottoman Empire, especially in the Muslim heartlands, via propaganda and inducing treachery.....

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## crankthatskunk

Lets there be no doubt about the designs and motives of the West to weaken any country which of any standing first by propaganda and lies.

And if things do not work out through propaganda and lies, by threat of war or actual war.

China at the moment is going through the third face of this process. It faces threats of actual war by the West.

One tricky scenario is very puzzling. The case of Japan.

Japan invaded China in the past and it is reported that their occupying regime in China was very brutal.
The right way to go about their past is for Japan to apologise to China and start friendly and helpful relationship with China.
But it is doing apposite of it.

Japan fought war with the West (US), which dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan. The only incidents of nuclear attacks to date in human history.

Surprisingly, Japan is very friendly with the USA despite being a victim of devastating nuclear attacks. Despite USA placing restrictions on Japan for over 50 years regarding its military capabilities.

And it is very hostile to China , which had been a victim of Japanese aggression.
Why !!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

crankthatskunk said:


> Lets there be no doubt about the designs and motives of the West to weaken any country which of any standing first by propaganda and lies.
> 
> And if things do not work out through propaganda and lies, by threat of war or actual war.
> 
> China at the moment is going through the third face of this process. It faces threats of actual war by the West.
> 
> One tricky scenario is very puzzling. The case of Japan.
> 
> Japan invaded China in the past and it is reported that their occupying regime in China was very brutal.
> The right way to go about their past is for Japan to apologise to China and start friendly and helpful relationship with China.
> But it is doing apposite of it.
> 
> Japan fought war with the West (US), which dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan. The only incidents of nuclear attacks to date in human history.
> 
> Surprisingly, Japan is very friendly with the USA despite being a victim of devastating nuclear attacks. Despite USA placing restrictions on Japan for over 50 years regarding its military capabilities.
> 
> And it is very hostile to China , which had been a victim of Japanese aggression.
> Why !!



Japan is not free to make its own choices, otherwise friendship with China would make most sense in its geopolitical environment.

Japanese public has been agitating against US presence for a long time, especially in relation to kidnaps/rapes by US soldiers of Japanese girls in Okinawa.

However the power center depends on US support and will not relinquish it yet.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1308358069571649539


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## beijingwalker

JSCh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1308358069571649539


Chilli peper

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

Medical facilities are world class, second to none in Xinjiang and China, the challenge is to find the most qualified medical professionals.


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## fisher1

What a time of fitnah

Muslims are helping and defending the enemies of Islam convert Muslims to atheism and then portray to the world to be some pious lovers of Islam Nauzbillah 

Truly testing times.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Itachi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> *New research reveals absurd rumor sources of Uyghur detentions in Xinjiang endeared by Western media *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women wave the Chinese national flag in Baicheng county of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. Photo: Shan Jie/GT
> 
> The allegations that China has detained millions of Uyghur people in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region came from unreliable studies and sources backed by US government, based on shoddy methodologies and works of a far-right anti-China and anti-communist researcher, a recently published essay in the Grayzone revealed.
> 
> "The claim that China has detained millions of ethnic Uyghurs in its Xinjiang region is repeated with increasing frequency, but little scrutiny is ever applied. Yet a closer look at the figure and how it was obtained reveals a serious deficiency in data," said the Grayzone article published on Saturday.
> 
> While the "million" figure is widely cited in the West as authentic, an in-depth research shows it is only based on two highly dubious "studies."
> 
> The first study was done by the Network of Chinese-Human Rights Defenders (CHRD), a Washington DC-based NGO backed by the US government. The "millions detained" figure was first popularized by the CHRD in a 2018 report submitted to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, which is often misrepresented in Western media as a report penned by the UN, according to the article.
> 
> Grayzone was founded in 2015 as an independent news website dedicated to original investigative journalism and political analysis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Uyghur woman dances at a restaurant in Awati county, Aksu Prefecture of Xinjiang. Photo: Shan Jie/GT
> 
> *Dubious calculation*
> 
> While CHRD states it interviewed dozens of Uyghur people during the course of its study, their inflated estimate was ultimately based on interviews with eight Uyghur individuals, Canada-based writer and lawyer Ajit Singh and Grayzone editor Max Blumenthal wrote in the Grayzone article.
> 
> "Based on this small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD 'extrapolated estimates' that 'at least 10 percent of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20 percent are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30 percent in both types of camps,'" the article said.
> 
> Applying these estimated rates to the entirety of Xinjiang, CHRD arrived at the figures it submitted to the UN claiming that one million ethnic Uyghur people have been "detained in re-education detention camps" and two million more have been "forced to attend day/evening re-education sessions," the article added.
> 
> The "camps" the CHRD claims are actually vocational education and training centers which employ a boarding school model that allows trainees to go back home on a regular basis and grants leave to attend personal affairs.
> 
> Grayzone has previously reported that CHRD receives significant financial support from National Endowment for Democracy (NED). NED is a CIA-backed US foundation which is believed to have played a critical role in innumerable regime changes across the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Screenshot of a report from the Grayzone on Xinjiang
> 
> *Far-right researcher*
> 
> The second study, as Grayzone found out, relied on flimsy media reports and speculation. This study was authored by Adrian Zenz, a senior fellow in China studies at the far-right Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which was established by the US government in 1983.
> 
> "Like the CHRD, Zenz arrived at his estimated 'over 1 million' figure using a dubious methodology. He based it on a single report by Istiqlal TV, a Uyghur exile media organization based in Turkey, which was republished by Newsweek Japan," Singh and Blumenthal said.
> 
> "Far from an impartial journalistic organization, Istiqlal TV advances the separatist cause while playing host to an assortment of extremist figures." A frequent guest on Istiqlal TV is Abdulkadir Yapuquan, a reported leader of the East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM) terrorist group.
> 
> Zenz also tries to justify his estimates by citing reports from Radio Free Asia, a US-funded news agency created by the CIA during the Cold War to spew propaganda against China, according to Grayzone's research.
> 
> In a November 2019 interview with Radio Free Asia, Zenz even inflated the 1 million figure by claiming China was detaining 1.8 million people.
> 
> In an exclusive interview with the Global Times, the spokesperson of Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region said the so-called scholars including Zenz actually work for the US intelligence agency, and they cooperate with anti-China forces in the US to smear China's Xinjiang policies.
> 
> "Disguised as experts, they made baseless remarks and slandered China's Xinjiang policies as much as possible, aiming to galvanize anti-China forces in the US. What they did was beyond the academic scope - using academic research as a cover, they slandered and smeared China, which are also the old tricks used by the US," added the spokesperson. "The 1 million detention claim is a nonsense and was derived out of nothing."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A woman plays with her granddaughter at a skiing resort in Baicheng county, Xinjiang. Photo: Shan Jie/GT
> 
> Grayzone also found that Zenz is a far-right fundamentalist Christian who opposes homosexuality and gender equality, supports "scriptural spanking" of children, and believes he is "led by God" on a "mission" against China.
> 
> A search of Zenz's Twitter profile returns no tweets concerning the rise of Islamophobia in the West, nor US wars and drone strikes against Muslim-majority countries. The only Tweet by Zenz concerning Muslims that is unrelated to China is a denial of the double-standard in judging violence when perpetrated by whites instead of Muslims.
> 
> In a separate August 2018 report by Blumenthal, he said Washington wants to pressurize China and push the US to spark a conflict with China. He spoke with World Uyghur Congress (WUC) chairman Omer Kanat, who took credit for furnishing many of the reports about alleged internment camps in the Western media.
> 
> In the report, Blumenthal noted Kanat telling him over "1 million people" were in the camps in Xinjiang and that the figure was offered by some Western media. Kanat also stated that WUC offered more information on the training centers in Xinjiang to the US government and Western media
> 
> In an interview with Süddeutsche Zeitung, Dolkun Isa, leader of WUC, admitted they aimed to inflict more pressure on China and force Western companies to withdraw from Xinjiang.
> 
> "What is happening in Xinjiang today must be seen in the context of what has been happening throughout Central Asia," read a Workers World report on December 18.
> 
> Xinjiang is a major logistics center for China's ambitious Belt and Road Initiative. Xinjiang is the gateway to Central and West Asia, as well as to European markets. "The US government is deeply hostile to this vast economic development project and is doing all it can to sabotage China's plans. This campaign is part of the US military's 'Pivot to Asia,' along with naval threats in the South China Sea and support for separatist movements in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Tibet," read the article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New research reveals absurd rumor sources of Uyghur detentions in Xinjiang endeared by Western media - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @PAKISTANFOREVER @Musings @Verve @masterchief_mirza @Dalit @Agha Sher @Itachi @rott @vi-va @Figaro @Raphael @Clutch @313ghazi @crankthatskunk @Areesh @PaklovesTurkiye @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Falcon29




My stance on the plight of the Uyghurs hasn't changed whatever the current world news flavor of the day might be...

I do understand that the hype might have been created to destabilize relations between China and Muslims countries or for whatever reasons.....but that doesn't change the reality which has been ongoing since Kashmir or Palestine was an issue for us.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Shehr Abbasi

Itachi said:


> My stance on the plight of the Uyghurs hasn't changed whatever the current world news flavor of the day might be...
> 
> I do understand that the hype might have been created to destabilize relations between China and Muslims countries or for whatever reasons.....but that doesn't change the reality which has been ongoing since Kashmir or Palestine was an issue for us.


Step 1: Pakistan establishes diplomatic relations with Israel.
Step 2: Israel commits human rights violations against Palestinians.
Step 3: Media reports on Israeli transgressions.
Step 4: All criticizing news on Israel is branded as “Western propaganda” aimed to hurt diplomatic ties.
Step 5: Rinse & Repeat

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

*Iranian **Expert: West ignored Xinjiang minorities for centuries*
Iranian world news Columnist


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## beijingwalker

*Girl chases sports dream in Xinjiang on boys-only team*


----------



## Itachi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> *New research reveals absurd rumor sources of Uyghur detentions in Xinjiang endeared by Western media *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women wave the Chinese national flag in Baicheng county of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. Photo: Shan Jie/GT
> 
> The allegations that China has detained millions of Uyghur people in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region came from unreliable studies and sources backed by US government, based on shoddy methodologies and works of a far-right anti-China and anti-communist researcher, a recently published essay in the Grayzone revealed.
> 
> "The claim that China has detained millions of ethnic Uyghurs in its Xinjiang region is repeated with increasing frequency, but little scrutiny is ever applied. Yet a closer look at the figure and how it was obtained reveals a serious deficiency in data," said the Grayzone article published on Saturday.
> 
> While the "million" figure is widely cited in the West as authentic, an in-depth research shows it is only based on two highly dubious "studies."
> 
> The first study was done by the Network of Chinese-Human Rights Defenders (CHRD), a Washington DC-based NGO backed by the US government. The "millions detained" figure was first popularized by the CHRD in a 2018 report submitted to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, which is often misrepresented in Western media as a report penned by the UN, according to the article.
> 
> Grayzone was founded in 2015 as an independent news website dedicated to original investigative journalism and political analysis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Uyghur woman dances at a restaurant in Awati county, Aksu Prefecture of Xinjiang. Photo: Shan Jie/GT
> 
> *Dubious calculation*
> 
> While CHRD states it interviewed dozens of Uyghur people during the course of its study, their inflated estimate was ultimately based on interviews with eight Uyghur individuals, Canada-based writer and lawyer Ajit Singh and Grayzone editor Max Blumenthal wrote in the Grayzone article.
> 
> "Based on this small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD 'extrapolated estimates' that 'at least 10 percent of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20 percent are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30 percent in both types of camps,'" the article said.
> 
> Applying these estimated rates to the entirety of Xinjiang, CHRD arrived at the figures it submitted to the UN claiming that one million ethnic Uyghur people have been "detained in re-education detention camps" and two million more have been "forced to attend day/evening re-education sessions," the article added.
> 
> The "camps" the CHRD claims are actually vocational education and training centers which employ a boarding school model that allows trainees to go back home on a regular basis and grants leave to attend personal affairs.
> 
> Grayzone has previously reported that CHRD receives significant financial support from National Endowment for Democracy (NED). NED is a CIA-backed US foundation which is believed to have played a critical role in innumerable regime changes across the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Screenshot of a report from the Grayzone on Xinjiang
> 
> *Far-right researcher*
> 
> The second study, as Grayzone found out, relied on flimsy media reports and speculation. This study was authored by Adrian Zenz, a senior fellow in China studies at the far-right Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which was established by the US government in 1983.
> 
> "Like the CHRD, Zenz arrived at his estimated 'over 1 million' figure using a dubious methodology. He based it on a single report by Istiqlal TV, a Uyghur exile media organization based in Turkey, which was republished by Newsweek Japan," Singh and Blumenthal said.
> 
> "Far from an impartial journalistic organization, Istiqlal TV advances the separatist cause while playing host to an assortment of extremist figures." A frequent guest on Istiqlal TV is Abdulkadir Yapuquan, a reported leader of the East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM) terrorist group.
> 
> Zenz also tries to justify his estimates by citing reports from Radio Free Asia, a US-funded news agency created by the CIA during the Cold War to spew propaganda against China, according to Grayzone's research.
> 
> In a November 2019 interview with Radio Free Asia, Zenz even inflated the 1 million figure by claiming China was detaining 1.8 million people.
> 
> In an exclusive interview with the Global Times, the spokesperson of Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region said the so-called scholars including Zenz actually work for the US intelligence agency, and they cooperate with anti-China forces in the US to smear China's Xinjiang policies.
> 
> "Disguised as experts, they made baseless remarks and slandered China's Xinjiang policies as much as possible, aiming to galvanize anti-China forces in the US. What they did was beyond the academic scope - using academic research as a cover, they slandered and smeared China, which are also the old tricks used by the US," added the spokesperson. "The 1 million detention claim is a nonsense and was derived out of nothing."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A woman plays with her granddaughter at a skiing resort in Baicheng county, Xinjiang. Photo: Shan Jie/GT
> 
> Grayzone also found that Zenz is a far-right fundamentalist Christian who opposes homosexuality and gender equality, supports "scriptural spanking" of children, and believes he is "led by God" on a "mission" against China.
> 
> A search of Zenz's Twitter profile returns no tweets concerning the rise of Islamophobia in the West, nor US wars and drone strikes against Muslim-majority countries. The only Tweet by Zenz concerning Muslims that is unrelated to China is a denial of the double-standard in judging violence when perpetrated by whites instead of Muslims.
> 
> In a separate August 2018 report by Blumenthal, he said Washington wants to pressurize China and push the US to spark a conflict with China. He spoke with World Uyghur Congress (WUC) chairman Omer Kanat, who took credit for furnishing many of the reports about alleged internment camps in the Western media.
> 
> In the report, Blumenthal noted Kanat telling him over "1 million people" were in the camps in Xinjiang and that the figure was offered by some Western media. Kanat also stated that WUC offered more information on the training centers in Xinjiang to the US government and Western media
> 
> In an interview with Süddeutsche Zeitung, Dolkun Isa, leader of WUC, admitted they aimed to inflict more pressure on China and force Western companies to withdraw from Xinjiang.
> 
> "What is happening in Xinjiang today must be seen in the context of what has been happening throughout Central Asia," read a Workers World report on December 18.
> 
> Xinjiang is a major logistics center for China's ambitious Belt and Road Initiative. Xinjiang is the gateway to Central and West Asia, as well as to European markets. "The US government is deeply hostile to this vast economic development project and is doing all it can to sabotage China's plans. This campaign is part of the US military's 'Pivot to Asia,' along with naval threats in the South China Sea and support for separatist movements in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Tibet," read the article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New research reveals absurd rumor sources of Uyghur detentions in Xinjiang endeared by Western media - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @PAKISTANFOREVER @Musings @Verve @masterchief_mirza @Dalit @Agha Sher @Itachi @rott @vi-va @Figaro @Raphael @Clutch @313ghazi @crankthatskunk @Areesh @PaklovesTurkiye @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Falcon29




By the way...the website is insecure and a Chinese one.....I really wouldn't trust them since they're showing the typical "happy face nothing is wrong" Soviet propaganda sprinkled in a Chinese way.

To make matters simple, I'll just post the pictures of the article below without the whole article:






Yay nationalism!











Where have I seen such images before?? Oh right.... @beijingwalker 's threads. 

Especially the last one.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> By the way...the website is insecure and a Chinese one.....I really wouldn't trust them since they're showing the typical "happy face nothing is wrong" Soviet propaganda sprinkled in a Chinese way.
> 
> To make matters simple, I'll just post the pictures of the article below without the whole article:
> 
> View attachment 673072
> 
> 
> Yay nationalism!
> 
> View attachment 673074
> 
> 
> View attachment 673073
> 
> 
> Where have I seen such images before?? Oh right.... @beijingwalker 's threads.
> 
> Especially the last one.


You can choose whatever you wants to believe, this thread is not only for your own consumption.


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> You can choose whatever you wants to believe, this thread is not only for your own consumption.




I was replying to another member....not you. Already got your feathers ruffled?


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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> I was replying to another member....not you. Already got your feathers ruffled?


Just tell you it's ok for you not to believe my posts, in my thread concerning my posts, so I would like to explain to you.


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> *Iranian **Expert: West ignored Xinjiang minorities for centuries*
> Iranian world news Columnist



Lmao....that guy looks quite worried....well who wouldn't be if they're spewing lies and being forced to...

The Xinjiang issue arose around the time CCP formed, around WWI-WWII. This guy doesn't know anything about Xinjiang or the Uyghurs. Xinjiang didn't even exist 200 years ago, let alone 2,000 years. The whole matter is less than 100 years old and voices from the Muslim world have spoken up for a long time......but been repressed because of the Cold War and the WoT. Before the Cold War, many Muslims didn't have a voice to speak up for other Muslims. 

The Ottoman Empire supported the Dungan revolt (1862-1877) which preceded the the Uyghur issue almost 75 years, in which scores of Hui Muslims were killed. The Ottomans were very occupied in WWI and didn't exist at the end of WWII.....Turkey though hosts many Uyghurs today (along with Pakistan) and has spoken up about Uyghur rights. Although much less nowaday because of pressure from the Chinese.

But, the matter isn't and won't be forgotten. History remembers no matter how much the CCP tries to rewrite it, justify it or wash it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

*Uyghur Teens FORCED to skateboard, get tattoos, drink alcohol*


----------



## beijingwalker

*The Chinese Uygher People from an American’s Perspective
*


> As an American who has lived in China for many years, I've seen several articles about Uighurs, one being titled, "Uighurs for Sale." This one in particular has gone viral. Based upon years of observation and understanding, as well as long term issues about Uighurs in Xinjiang, I feel these reports may differ from the actual situation, so decided to conduct on site interviews.


----------



## Jun

@beijingwalker @

Exposed lies from another so call Uyghurs activist (Actually work for CIA)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317686025800486912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317939924348272640
Full Interview:


----------



## Char

beijingwalker said:


> *The Chinese Uygher People from an American’s Perspective
> *



Seems this Christian is doing worship in a mosque? He is drawing a cross.


----------



## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang, My home | Auxiliary police officer's passion about photography*

Having an eye for beauty in China's Xinjiang, Mirigul, an auxiliary police officer, explores and records the rural landscapes and modern changes in the region through the camera lenses.


----------



## W.11

Roberts, who has carried out 25 years of field research in Uighur communities in Xinjiang, Kazakhstan and Turkey, deconstructs how the “terrorism” label was appropriated after 9/11 to explain violent acts of resistance in Xinjiang*. The claims had little evidence to support them but, in 2002, as part of diplomatic horse-trading to secure China’s acceptance of the “global war on terror”, the US publicly endorsed Beijing’s claims that an essentially unheard-of militant group known as the Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement had a role in violence in Xinjiang. **Although the primary driver for the campaign is Beijing’s longstanding desire to assimilate the Uighurs**,* *the justification and inspiration for its most recent drastic escalation can be found in the US-led war on terror, Roberts writes. In 2014, Xinjiang’s Communist party boss Zhang Chunxian launched a “people’s war on terror” that was escalated in 2016 by the arrival of Chen Quanguo, a hardliner. The use of the terrorist label in Xinjiang is especially fraught. While a handful of apparently premeditated attacks have been documented, the vast majority of incidents fit more easily as spontaneous violence sparked by locally motivated grievances. *





__





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com


----------



## beijingwalker

*How herders in China's Xinjiang rise above poverty*


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

W.11 said:


> Roberts, who has carried out 25 years of field research in Uighur communities in Xinjiang, Kazakhstan and Turkey, deconstructs how the “terrorism” label was appropriated after 9/11 to explain violent acts of resistance in Xinjiang*. The claims had little evidence to support them but, in 2002, as part of diplomatic horse-trading to secure China’s acceptance of the “global war on terror”, the US publicly endorsed Beijing’s claims that an essentially unheard-of militant group known as the Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement had a role in violence in Xinjiang. **Although the primary driver for the campaign is Beijing’s longstanding desire to assimilate the Uighurs**,* *the justification and inspiration for its most recent drastic escalation can be found in the US-led war on terror, Roberts writes. In 2014, Xinjiang’s Communist party boss Zhang Chunxian launched a “people’s war on terror” that was escalated in 2016 by the arrival of Chen Quanguo, a hardliner. The use of the terrorist label in Xinjiang is especially fraught. While a handful of apparently premeditated attacks have been documented, the vast majority of incidents fit more easily as spontaneous violence sparked by locally motivated grievances. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com



full article: (above excerpt in blue)




__





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com




*China’s crackdown on the Uighurs*

A newly renovated hall in the largest museum in Urumqi, the capital city of the Xinjiang region in China, hosts an installation that makes little sense for a family outing: “The exhibition on major violent terrorist attacks in Xinjiang.” Opened in February, the well-lit room is filled with grisly details blamed on murky “terrorist” organisations. Ancient firearms, rusting gas canisters and “home-made grenades” fill glass display cases.

The exhibit is part of the ruling Chinese Communist party’s propaganda campaign to justify a mass internment programme of more than 1m Uighurs, Kazakhs and other Muslim-majority peoples in the region. Diplomats and journalists on closely managed government tours to Xinjiang inevitably visit.

For nearly two decades, China has sought to cast harsh security measures in the region as part of a battle against “terrorist” aggressors driven by extremist ideology. In the face of growing western condemnation of its “re-education” camps, Beijing has doubled down on this narrative. But the assertion that violence in Xinjiang is the work of international terror groups has little factual basis, according to the careful tracing of China’s claims by Sean Roberts, an anthropologist at George Washington University’s Elliott School of International Affairs.






One of the first books to concisely explain how and why the Communist party under President Xi Jinping has embarked on an all-out war on Uighur culture, its publication comes as many western nations are waking up to the abuses. Hopes of a global response, let alone a change of course, must contend with China’s assertions that the campaign is a necessary response to an imminent threat, a claim that diplomatic partners of Beijing have so far been willing to support at the UN.

Roberts, who has carried out 25 years of field research in Uighur communities in Xinjiang, Kazakhstan and Turkey, deconstructs how the “terrorism” label was appropriated after 9/11 to explain violent acts of resistance in Xinjiang. The claims had little evidence to support them but, in 2002, as part of diplomatic horse-trading to secure China’s acceptance of the “global war on terror”, the US publicly endorsed Beijing’s claims that an essentially unheard-of militant group known as the Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement had a role in violence in Xinjiang.

Although the primary driver for the campaign is Beijing’s longstanding desire to assimilate the Uighurs, the justification and inspiration for its most recent drastic escalation can be found in the US-led war on terror, Roberts writes.

In 2014, Xinjiang’s Communist party boss Zhang Chunxian launched a “people’s war on terror” that was escalated in 2016 by the arrival of Chen Quanguo, a hardliner. The use of the terrorist label in Xinjiang is especially fraught. While a handful of apparently premeditated attacks have been documented, the vast majority of incidents fit more easily as spontaneous violence sparked by locally motivated grievances.

Roberts describes “self-perpetuating” cycles of repression and violence between disenfranchised Uighurs and security forces that spiralled into the events that spurred Mr Xi to launch the most recent crackdown: an attack in central Beijing in 2013, and another shortly afterwards at Kunming railway station in south-west China.

Perhaps Roberts’s greatest contribution to the debate over Xinjiang is his attempt to dismantle China’s assertions about a “terrorist threat” by sketching a picture of the isolated groups it deems international terrorist organisations. Through interviews in Uighur communities, he concludes that the groups have for the past two decades mostly hovered on the edge of extinction as a poorly resourced, loosely organised bunch with aspirations, but no capacity, to launch militant operations.

Ironically, the “people’s war on terror” may be planting the seeds of a real militant threat among Uighur exiles. When Roberts, in a recent interview, asked one former Uighur fighter whether he was afraid of dying in a fight against China, he replied that his entire family had already disappeared into camps or prisons, and “he had nothing left to live for anyway”.


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## beijingwalker

*Uighur girl let you guess which country she is from*


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## Jun

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1318431759147667456


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## beijingwalker

3 Uighur PLNA girls from Xinjiang Aksu retired from China's first aircraft carrier Liaoning and joined police department in Aksu, Xinjiang


在这其中，有3名来自新疆阿克苏的年轻女兵。她们之中有担任过辽宁舰航母本舰的指挥，参与过航母交接入列，参加过航母历次试验试航和舰载战斗机着舰起飞，迎接国家领导人检阅等重大任务的经历。


她们就是现任阿克苏市公安局政治处民警克比努尔·吐鲁洪、买热木尼沙·吐尔逊以及夏地古丽。虽然现在都已退伍从警，但她们将辽宁舰的精神一直延续到今天。

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## beijingwalker

Xinjing Uighur college girl 祖力胡玛·贾帕尔 joined the Chinese PLA Navy and served on China's first Aircraft Carrier Liaoning.
Soldiers come and go, army is mostly for young ones

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## beijingwalker

The Giant Chinese aircraft carrier Liaoning was sailed by this young Kazakh girl 加德热拉·哈布力




Kazakh PLAN sailor *热米拉·达古力*













Kazakh PLAN sailor 加德热拉·哈布力 on Liaoning carrier

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang population growth best answers Western smear campaign on Uygurs*
Global Times Published: 2020/9/4 15:51:45





Recently, an anti-China pseudo-scholar from Germany named Adrian Zenz (who calls himself Zheng Guoen in Chinese) has published a paper titled "Sterilizations, IUDs, and Coercive Birth Prevention: The CCP's Campaign to Suppress Uyghur Birth Rates in Xinjiang." The paper cites false statistics and highly misleading sources, drawing a ridiculous conclusion that ethnic minorities in the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region are under the threat of "genocide." However, his analysis and conclusion are neither in line with scientific research standards nor academic norms.

According to official statistics, the overall population in Xinjiang continued to grow steadily from 2010 to 2018. During this period, the population of permanent residents increased by 13.99 percent, among which the Uygur population increased by 25.04 percent, and the Han population 2.0 percent. Clearly, the growth rate of the Uygur population is nearly twice that of the overall residents and is way higher than that of the Han population. The Uygur population has increased by more than 2.5 million people in merely eight years. What kind of "genocide" is this? Zenz, with his anti-China stance, fabricated his conclusion without any basis. 

Nobody knows Xinjiang better than the local Chinese citizens. At present, the people's livelihood in Xinjiang has greatly improved. Citizens there now live in peace and tranquility. And people of all ethnic groups are as united as pomegranate seeds. 

In the recent outbreak of the coronavirus epidemic in Xinjiang, the government has, as always, put humanity as the top priority. The government took quick and appropriate actions, providing nucleic acid tests and professional treatments free of charge. Thanks to such comprehensive efforts, China has put an end to the spread of coronavirus in Xinjiang with no deaths. Till September 4, there has been no infection for 17 consecutive days in Xinjiang and the whole of society is back to normal. 





The Chinese government shows the world with its real actions that the human rights that matter the most are "the right to life" and "the right to health." Therefore, it is ridiculous to turn a blind eye to the facts and use population issues as a new lever to smear China, especially under such special circumstances when people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang are united against the epidemic. 

Some Western pseudo-scholars pursue double standards on human rights. But the truth is that their accusations related to nationality, religion and human rights have never been the real situation in Xinjiang. Now that the pandemic continues to spread in the West, Western countries had better spend more energy caring for their own citizens as well.

As a Uygur proverb goes, "The camel marches while the dog keeps on barking." Lies and slanders will not stop China's development. Western radical forces will not stop China's development. Nothing will. We have faith that people of all ethnic groups will continue to follow the Party and stay united. The best response to those attacking China and its Xinjiang policy is Xinjiang's stability, prosperity and harmonious development. 





__





Xinjiang population growth best answers Western smear campaign on Uygurs - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn

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## beijingwalker

*Today's Xinjiang Kashgar old town looks the same as it was 5 years ago, but there's more to it than meets the eye*






In 5 years, the government spent over 7 billion Yuan ( $1.6billion) to tear down every single house to the ground and rebuilt them with earthquake resistent reenforced concrete in better structural designs, hooked every house with cigy running water , gas and sewer system.

These old house cost way more money than skyscrapers, but since the locals refuse to move to new settlements, in order to ensure the safety of the residents, this money is well spent, nothing is more valuable than human lives.

Kashgar old town now has become a well known tourist hotspot in Xinjiang, hopefully the government can recover the investment through this booming tourism.

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## beijingwalker

*Inspiration. Dealing with Xinjiang Kashgar old town earthquake vulnerable old houses*

Kashgar, Xinjiang, is a very earthquake active region, houses in Kashgar old town are beautiful with a very lone history but they can't withstand even minor earthquakes. Local Uighur people refuse to move to the earthquake resistant new houses built by the government in the suburbs cause they have lived in those old house for generations. See how Chinese architects' inspirational way to deal with this issue.

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## beijingwalker

*Kashgar rebuilt old town, with all the modern facilities, is able to withstand 8.5 Richter scale .*

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## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker



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## 8888888888888

Looks somewhat like Turkey without the threat of bombs from the Kurdish militia.

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## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker

The western media only reported the demolition part, never reported the rebuild part and why the old mud houses must be replaced by reinforced concrete. The west never cares about the life and death of the local Uighur residents, but the Chinese government does very much.

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## dbc

beijingwalker said:


> The western media only reported the demolition part, never reported the rebuild part and why the old mud houses must be replaced by reinforced concrete. The west never cares about the life and death of the local Uighur residents, but the Chinese government does very much.




I thought all Uighur issues are meant to go into this thread 
Oh well, I guess the Chinese enjoy special dispensation here on PDF 

It appears to me the Chinese government turned Kashgar into a tourist village for commercial gain. Were the residents of Kashgar given a choice?-I doubt it.

Are they happy to live in a glass cage while being ogled at by amused tourist like animals at a zoo? I doubt it.. so spare us the BS about the altruistic heart of your beloved CCP. They did it for commercial gain and to intrude into the lives of Kashgar residents to deter any deviancy.
Kill two birds with one stone and of course there is the propaganda value...

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## Enigma SIG

dbc said:


> I thought all Uighur issues are meant to go into this thread
> *Oh well, I guess the Chinese enjoy special dispensation here on PDF*
> 
> It appears to me the Chinese government turned Kashgar into a tourist village* for commercial gain*. Were the residents of Kashgar given a choice?-I doubt it.
> 
> Are they happy to live in a glass cage while being ogled at by amused tourist like animals at a zoo? I doubt it.. so spare us the BS about the altruistic heart of your beloved CCP. *They did it for commercial gain* and to intrude into the lives of Kashgar residents to deter any deviancy.
> Kill two birds with one stone and of course there is the propaganda value...



Why so salty?


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## dbc

Enigma SIG said:


> Why so salty?



of course, I have to follow the rules and others don't ..me super salty 😭

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## Enigma SIG

dbc said:


> of course, I have to follow the rules and others don't ..me super salty 😭


Welcome to real life.

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## beijingwalker

Haha, CCP
Haha, CCP is bad, they never do anything for the people, whatever they do benefiting the people must have evil motives. The only explanation that American minds can accept. LOL..

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## dbc

beijingwalker said:


> Haha, CCP
> Haha, CCP is bad, they never do anything for the people, whatever they do benefiting the people must have evil motives. The only explanation that American minds can accept. LOL..



As opposed to your imagined reality that mama CCP cares about you ..and over a billion more people like you

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## beijingwalker

dbc said:


> As opposed to your imagined reality that mama CCP cares about you ..and over a billion more people like you


lol, we all know how Trump loves you.

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## dbc

beijingwalker said:


> lol, we all know how Trump loves you.



we know Trump doesn't  

we are under no such delusion its not in our DNA. Remember...

*"ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU.." - JFK*


John F. Kennedy’s inaugural address inspired children and adults to see the importance of civic action and public service. His historic words, “Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country,” challenged every American to contribute in some way to the public good. In this lesson, students learn about a theme in President Kennedy’s inaugural address, civic action, and consider how it applies to their own lives. 





__





"Ask not what your country can do for you..." | JFK Library


Topics: John F. Kennedy's Inaugural Address, Social Studies and Language Arts John F. Kennedy’s inaugural address inspired children and adults to see the importance of civic action and public service. His historic words, “Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your...




www.jfklibrary.org


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## scherz

Fake photos created by KI.


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Haha, CCP
> Haha, CCP is bad, they never do anything for the people, whatever they do benefiting the people must have evil motives. The only explanation that American minds can accept. LOL..



It's true. Just look at the history of CCP and you will find its a virus that sucked life out of China


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## beijingwalker

*Kashgar old town













*

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## beijingwalker

*Kashgar old town







*

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## beijingwalker

Uighur girl: Anyone who offends China will be killed no matter how far the targetis.
*犯我强汉，虽远必诛*
200 years of Chaxian County, Xinjiang history that should not be forgotten.

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## gom poa

stop with the "Uighur girl" this and "Uighur girl" that bro

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## whatintarnation

lol


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## OppositeDay

While I don't doubt the patriotism of that young woman, content creators in general often just say whatever that'll bring in the views. Posting those videos here is pointless.


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## dbc

Skull and Bones said:


> China is a piece of s#it, there, I said it.



Oh no! this Uighur girl is going to come get you! It was nice knowing you...adieu monsieur S&B

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## INS_Vikrant

Skull and Bones said:


> China is a piece of s#it, there, I said it.

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## Skull and Bones

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> View attachment 685586



Now I'm in a mood to watch this movie, again.


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## beijingwalker

Girl explores a food and snack night market in Xinjiang. Winter arrived, all street food vendors moved indoors, variety and cheap, Xinjiang is the heaven for foodies.

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## gom poa

Listen to this guys rent. not the entire thing just the first 20 min. and u will understand what the real concern is. @beijingwalker


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## beijingwalker

gom poa said:


> Listen to this guys rent. not the entire thing just the first 20 min. and u will understand what the real concern is. @beijingwalker


Don't have time to listen to every random guy's ranting. Who is he?


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## beijingwalker

*Take a look at Hotan's female SWAT team in Xinjiang*





*Xinjiang in China, perfect timing, peaceful mountains and rivers*

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## fisher1

Might as well call it Xinjiang Propaganda Thread.

Everyone who even speaks negative of China gets banned by the administration here or their posts deleted. 

There's no discussion here. China and its lovers don't have the courage to even hear opposing opinion. 

China Defence Forum this is more like..

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## TaiShang

Xinjiang Situation: 'Camera installed to monitor Muslims' is 'pure lie'

Sun Ye







The city of Kashgar in the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, China, November 4, 2017. /CFP

Against the accusations made by certain Western media outlets, officials and religious people from northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region say rumors like "forced labor" in Xinjiang and local government installed cameras "to supervise religious people" are purely "slander."

Elijan Anayit, spokesperson for the Information Office of the People's Government of Xinjiang, said at Monday's news briefing that the accusations of so-called "forced-labor" and "oppression" couldn't be further from the truth.

"The so-claimed 'persecution' is nonsense. People in Xinjiang are just like everyone else in China's other regions, enjoying the same rights and protected by the law," he said, *adding 70 percent of the region's public expenditure is spent on improving the livelihood of local people, from employment and education to medical care.*

He explained that by 2020, at least one person in every household in Xinjiang has a job. *And for those who hunted for jobs outside of the region, they earned an average of 40,000 yuan annually by the latest count.*

"It can be said that we are now living the life that previously only existed in our dreams," he added.

Obulhasan Tursunniyaz, one of the religious leaders at Jamah Mosque in Xinjiang's Hotan Prefecture, refuted the accusation that security cameras in mosques are used to monitor Muslims, *explaining the equipment is used to fend off terrorists.*

He cited a terrorist attack that occurred in Kashgar in 2014, *where Juma Tahir, vice president of the Islamic Association of China and the imam of the Id Kah Mosque in Kashgar, was stabbed to death *by three young male extremists. During the investigation, cameras helped police find the culprits.

"The cameras are used to protect religious people, and fend off terrorist acts. And we totally support that," he said. "Some people say the cameras are installed for other reasons. This is slandering and is trying to incite tension between Muslims and non-Muslims."

The religious leader added that in the past years, all religious activities have been conducted normally in the region and out of individuals' own volition. Even amid the pandemic, with tough COVID-19 preventive measures, activities have continued safely, he said.

Xu Guixiang, deputy general of the Publicity Department of Xinjiang, said that through the briefing, they hope to depict a real picture of Xinjiang, a region that has been free of terrorist attacks for four years, sustained a GDP growth of 7.2 percent, and lifted all in the region out of poverty by December.









Xinjiang Situation: 'Camera installed to monitor Muslims' is 'pure lie'


Against the accusations made by certain Western media outlets, Xinjiang officials and religious people say rumors like "forced labor" in Xinjiang and local government installed cameras "to supervise religious people" are purely "slander."




news.cgtn.com

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## beijingwalker

*Money grows on trees, desert **Villagers shake off poverty by growing jujubes in desert in Xinjiang, China*

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## Morpheus

*Boris Johnson refuses to back Trump and Biden teams in calling Uighur situation ‘genocide’*

*PM says China’s treatment of Muslim majority ‘utterly abhorrent’*


Boris Johnson has refused to describe the treatment of China’s Muslim Uighur minority as “genocide”, despite use of the term by both the Trump and Biden administrations.

Joe Biden’s nominee for Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, signalled a tough line on China from the new administration in Washington on Tuesday, when he told a Senate confirmation hearing that he backed his predecessor Mike Pompeo’s charge of genocide against Beijing.

Mr Pompeo used his final full day in office as Donald Trump’s minister for international affairs to say: “I believe this genocide is ongoing and that we are witnessing the systematic attempt to destroy Uighurs by the Chinese party-state.”
He cited the forced sterilisation and torture of some of the “more than a million” civilians he said were detained under the direction of the Chinese Communist Party in the western province of Xinjiang.

But challenged to take the same step in the House of Commons on Wednesday, Mr Johnson insisted that, while he regarded the treatment of the Uighurs as “utterly abhorrent”, determining whether it amounted to genocide was a matter for judges, not politicians.

Mr Johnson was speaking a day after his government overturned an amendment to its trade bill which would have forced the UK to withdraw from any free trade agreement negotiated with a state guilty of genocide.
He told prime ministers questions in the Commons: “The attribution of genocide is a judicial matter.


“But I can say for myself that I regard what is happening in Xinjiang and what's happening to the Uighurs as utterly abhorrent.”
Mr Johnson was responding to a question from Scottish National Party Westminster leader Ian Blackford, who told MPs: "People would find the prime minister’s claims about the UK’s global leadership a bit more believable if last night he hadn’t ordered his MPs to vote down an amendment to the trade bill that would have stopped trade deals with countries who commit genocide.


"Genocide isn’t a matter of history, it is happening in our world right now. The international community has stood idly by as Uighur Muslim men, women and children are forced into concentration camps in China's Xinjiang province. 
“Yesterday the outgoing US secretary of state officially said that genocide was taking place, and the incoming secretary of state, Anthony Blinken, agrees with his view.”

Mr Blackford called on the PM to follow the lead of Pompeo and Blinken, and “stand up today and clearly state that genocide is being committed against the Uighur population in China”.

Beijing rejected Mr Pompeo’s characterisation of its treatment of the Muslim minority.

Hua Chunying, a foreign ministry spokesperson, said: “Pompeo‘s comment on Xinjiang is just another one of his ridiculous lies. Pompeo is a clown . . . Genocide has never happened in China and will never happen in China.” 









Boris Johnson refuses to back Trump and Biden teams in calling Uighur situation ‘genocide’


PM says China’s treatment of Muslim majority ‘utterly abhorrent’




www.independent.co.uk




++++++++++++++++++++++++

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## masterchief_mirza

It isn't that Johnson the clown is suddenly sympathetic towards China. There is a reason for this. Rebel tories under Hague and the other bald dude whose name I forgot recently tried to push a motion for cancellation of trade deals with any nation labelled as committing a genocide. They will push again and may succeed eventually, so Johnson needs to avert a post-Brexit cancellation of new contracts with the one country that could bail UK out after the European divorce. 

Johnson is still a complete clown and I wouldn't trust him one bit. He is simply trying to save his Brexit debacle.

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## beijingwalker

Even friends can not support someone who has totally lost their sanity.

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## Mirzali Khan

beijingwalker said:


> Even friends can not support someone who has totally lost their sanity.



Trump is psycho and Biden is demented. Who are you talking about?

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Even friends can not support someone who has totally lost their sanity.



Friends???

At least the US has some....what does China have??


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## Adonis

Itachi said:


> Friends???
> 
> At least the US has some....what does China have??



China only have Customers....

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## CAPRICORN-88

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1213458.shtml


*China sanctions 28 US individuals including Pompeo for violating China's sovereignty*
By Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Published: Jan 21, 2021 01:07 AM






China US Photo: GT


Over the past few years, some anti-China politicians in the United States, out of their selfish political interests and prejudice and hatred against China and showing no regard for the interests of the Chinese and American people, have planned, promoted and executed a series of crazy moves which have gravely interfered in China's internal affairs, undermined China's interests, offended the Chinese people, and seriously disrupted China-U.S. relations. The Chinese government is firmly resolved to defend China's national sovereignty, security and development interests. China has decided to sanction 28 persons who have seriously violated China's sovereignty and who have been mainly responsible for such U.S. moves on China-related issues. They include *Michael R. Pompeo, Peter K. Navarro, Robert C. O'Brien, David R. Stilwell, Matthew Pottinger, Alex M. Azar II, Keith J. Krach, and Kelly D. K. Craft of the Trump administration as well as John R. Bolton and Stephen K. Bannon. These individuals and their immediate family members are prohibited from entering the mainland, Hong Kong and Macao of China. They and companies and institutions associated with them are also restricted from doing business with China*

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## Beast

Itachi said:


> Friends???
> 
> At least the US has some....what does China have??


Pakistan. 

US has no friends. Only mutual interest.

Since Boris is willing to take some action to improve Sino-UK r/s. Let's not be too harsh on him since we know Trump exert alot of pressure on him to be anti-China. UK is no more the Great Britain of the past where they can have independent foreign policy.

I expect RN to cancel the intent trip to SCS for freedom of navigation nonsense. It will appease China further.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Itachi said:


> Friends???
> 
> At least the US has some....what does China have??


I've got a question and I'd like you to give a sincere answer if you're capable of such a thing. Suppose everything the West is saying about China's treatment of the Uighurs is true - millions in concentration camps, rampant human rights abuses, force-feeding them pork and alcohol, organ harvesting; a situation on the verge of becoming a Holocaust. Suppose all that's true, now here's my question to you:

So what?

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## Feng Leng

Itachi said:


> Friends???
> 
> At least the US has some....what does China have??









Morpheus said:


> *Boris Johnson refuses to back Trump and Biden teams in calling Uighur situation ‘genocide’*
> 
> *PM says China’s treatment of Muslim majority ‘utterly abhorrent’*
> 
> 
> Boris Johnson has refused to describe the treatment of China’s Muslim Uighur minority as “genocide”, despite use of the term by both the Trump and Biden administrations.
> 
> Joe Biden’s nominee for Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, signalled a tough line on China from the new administration in Washington on Tuesday, when he told a Senate confirmation hearing that he backed his predecessor Mike Pompeo’s charge of genocide against Beijing.
> 
> Mr Pompeo used his final full day in office as Donald Trump’s minister for international affairs to say: “I believe this genocide is ongoing and that we are witnessing the systematic attempt to destroy Uighurs by the Chinese party-state.”
> He cited the forced sterilisation and torture of some of the “more than a million” civilians he said were detained under the direction of the Chinese Communist Party in the western province of Xinjiang.
> 
> But challenged to take the same step in the House of Commons on Wednesday, Mr Johnson insisted that, while he regarded the treatment of the Uighurs as “utterly abhorrent”, determining whether it amounted to genocide was a matter for judges, not politicians.
> 
> Mr Johnson was speaking a day after his government overturned an amendment to its trade bill which would have forced the UK to withdraw from any free trade agreement negotiated with a state guilty of genocide.
> He told prime ministers questions in the Commons: “The attribution of genocide is a judicial matter.
> 
> 
> “But I can say for myself that I regard what is happening in Xinjiang and what's happening to the Uighurs as utterly abhorrent.”
> Mr Johnson was responding to a question from Scottish National Party Westminster leader Ian Blackford, who told MPs: "People would find the prime minister’s claims about the UK’s global leadership a bit more believable if last night he hadn’t ordered his MPs to vote down an amendment to the trade bill that would have stopped trade deals with countries who commit genocide.
> 
> 
> "Genocide isn’t a matter of history, it is happening in our world right now. The international community has stood idly by as Uighur Muslim men, women and children are forced into concentration camps in China's Xinjiang province.
> “Yesterday the outgoing US secretary of state officially said that genocide was taking place, and the incoming secretary of state, Anthony Blinken, agrees with his view.”
> 
> Mr Blackford called on the PM to follow the lead of Pompeo and Blinken, and “stand up today and clearly state that genocide is being committed against the Uighur population in China”.
> 
> Beijing rejected Mr Pompeo’s characterisation of its treatment of the Muslim minority.
> 
> Hua Chunying, a foreign ministry spokesperson, said: “Pompeo‘s comment on Xinjiang is just another one of his ridiculous lies. Pompeo is a clown . . . Genocide has never happened in China and will never happen in China.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boris Johnson refuses to back Trump and Biden teams in calling Uighur situation ‘genocide’
> 
> 
> PM says China’s treatment of Muslim majority ‘utterly abhorrent’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++


Anglos need a good genocide to keep them in their place

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## Itachi

Feng Leng said:


>



The US invented those. I'm talking about nations that can back up China when war starts....the US is already part of NATO.


What military treaties is China part of??


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## Itachi

Beast said:


> Pakistan.
> 
> US has no friends. Only mutual interest.
> 
> Since Boris is willing to take some action to improve Sino-UK r/s. Let's not be too harsh on him since we know Trump exert alot of pressure on him to be anti-China. UK is no more the Great Britain of the past where they can have independent foreign policy.
> 
> I expect RN to cancel the intent trip to SCS for freedom of navigation nonsense. It will appease China further.



Pakistan has no military invasion pact with China.....US is part of NATO.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Itachi said:


> What military treaties is China part of??



North Korea is a treaty ally of China per 1961 Sino-Korean Mutual Defense Treaty.

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## Itachi

FairAndUnbiased said:


> North Korea is a treaty ally of China per 1961 Sino-Korean Mutual Defense Treaty.



That small country?? Is it gonna defend China?? Hahahaha


Without China....South Korea will run over NK in a few weeks.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Itachi said:


> That small country?? Is it gonna defend China?? Hahahaha
> 
> 
> Without China....South Korea will run over NK in a few weeks.



North Korea is militarily stronger than both Pakistan and India.

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## Itachi

FairAndUnbiased said:


> North Korea is militarily stronger than both Pakistan and India.



Lmao! Joke of the century!

NK just developed nukes....Pakistan and India have them for more than 20 years.


----------



## Beast

Itachi said:


> Lmao! Joke of the century!
> 
> NK just developed nukes....Pakistan and India have them for more than 20 years.


Lol.. kiddy. Learn more.







The ICBM from North korea that can cover all US.

Not even India can make one.

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## Feng Leng

Itachi said:


> The US invented those. I'm talking about nations that can back up China when war starts....the US is already part of NATO.
> 
> 
> What military treaties is China part of??


LOL just one DF-41 can turn New York City into a glass parking lot. Name me one American ally who is willing to absorb a nuclear strike for the US. That is why the US can only make loud noises while we turn Uighurs into our obedient lawful citizens

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## Itachi

Beast said:


> Lol.. kiddy. Learn more.
> 
> View attachment 708873
> 
> 
> The ICBM from North korea that can cover all US.
> 
> Not even India can make one.



The THAAD parked right next door in SK will kill this tiny missile in a heart beat. After that, NK will not exist.


These are all for show. If NK uses these, it's game over for it. 


Feng Leng said:


> LOL just one DF-41 can turn New York City into a glass parking lot. Name me one American ally who is willing to absorb a nuclear strike for the US. That is why the US can only make loud noises while we turn Uighurs into our obedient lawful citizens



THAAD is parked right next door in Japan, S. Korea, Guam, Hawaii & Okinawa. Meaning that you'll have to destroy these two nations before trying to attack the US.

The US ships and subs in SCS will obliterate China before it even dares touch the US mainland. Little kids with big dreams.


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## Feng Leng

Itachi said:


> THAAD is parked right next door in Japan, S. Korea, Guam, Hawaii & Okinawa. Meaning that you'll have to destroy these two nations before trying to attack the US.
> 
> The US ships and subs in SCS will obliterate China before it even dares touch the US mainland. Little kids with big dreams.


LOL you think THAAD can stop DF-41 

Why don't the US ships and subs in the SCS stop China from turning Uighurs into our obedient lawful citizens?

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## Adonis

ZeEa5KPul said:


> I've got a question and I'd like you to give a sincere answer if you're capable of such a thing. Suppose everything the West is saying about China's treatment of the Uighurs is true - millions in concentration camps, rampant human rights abuses, force-feeding them pork and alcohol, organ harvesting; a situation on the verge of becoming a Holocaust. Suppose all that's true, now here's my question to you:
> 
> *So what?*



So What.....Nothing much only

- World will know true face of China
- It's trust value will fall
- tight slap on the faces of Islamic countries who make hue and cry about atrocities on Muslims elsewhere but keep mum on China
- Will face heat from rivals in UNHRC...
- Will get difficult for it to veto/oppose countries like India on Kashmir

...and many more......


----------



## Itachi

Feng Leng said:


> LOL you think THAAD can stop DF-41
> 
> Why don't the US ships and subs in the SCS stop China from turning Uighurs into our obedient lawful citizens?



That's why the THAAD is there.....you really that dumb lol?


----------



## beijingwalker

Adonis said:


> So What.....Nothing much only
> 
> - World will know true face of China
> - It's trust value will fall
> - tight slap on the faces of Islamic countries who make hue and cry about atrocities on Muslims elsewhere but keep mum on China
> - Will face heat from rivals in UNHRC...
> - Will get difficult for it to veto/oppose countries like India on Kashmir
> 
> ...and many more......


Who is the world?

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Who is the world?



Anything that's not inside Chinese borders. Duuhhh??


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## KurtisBrian

Feng Leng said:


> LOL just one DF-41 can turn New York City into a glass parking lot. Name me one American ally who is willing to absorb a nuclear strike for the US. That is why the US can only make loud noises while we turn Uighurs into our obedient lawful citizens



ahh good so you admit that you are committing a form of genocide and enslavement of Muslims. Evil murderous slaver Romans allied with the Chi nese who are also slavers. Seems my guy knew what he was talking about when I said that Pakistan and China were destined to fight. Pakistani are SUNni NOT Shi' ite aka Chi a pets and I won't say the other meaning of the word.

btw New York City is almost all Italians, Irish, Eastern Europeans, Africans, Asians and Hispanics. Nuking NYC just kills a bunch of those people. A gathering place to try and understand each other. Better to just stay in our own places, if we can, like we were supposed to.

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## Itachi

KurtisBrian said:


> ahh good so you admit that you are committing a form of genocide and enslavement of Muslims. Evil murderous slaver Romans allied with the Chi nese who are also slavers. Seems my guy knew what he was talking about when I said that Pakistan and China were destined to fight. Pakistani are SUNni NOT Shi' ite aka Chi a pets and I won't say the other meaning of the word.



Some Chinese like him and others always admitted to such atrocities. Good for us. We now see who're the foolish iron brothers and who're actual Muslims.

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## Jackdaws

FairAndUnbiased said:


> North Korea is militarily stronger than both Pakistan and India.


Hahahaha. Gotta love China for sheer entertainment value.


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## Feng Leng

Itachi said:


> That's why the THAAD is there.....you really that dumb lol?


The CDC is for preventing diseases too that didn't stop COVID-19 now did it? 


KurtisBrian said:


> ahh good so you admit that you are committing a form of genocide and enslavement of Muslims. Evil murderous slaver Romans allied with the Chi nese who are also slavers. Seems my guy knew what he was talking about when I said that Pakistan and China were destined to fight. Pakistani are SUNni NOT Shi' ite aka Chi a pets and I won't say the other meaning of the word.


LOL whatever you say. We can do whatever we want because we have a huge nuclear arsenal and an itchy trigger finger. You can pay lip service promoting terrorists

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## KurtisBrian

Feng Leng said:


> The CDC is for preventing diseases too that didn't stop COVID-19 now did it?
> LOL whatever you say. We can do whatever we want because we have a huge nuclear arsenal and an itchy trigger finger. You can pay lip service promoting terrorists



Your statement seems more like a frustrated reference to the endless greed and nuclear intimidation used by the USA and UK perhaps France and Russia too. Probably easier to join them then walk the hard road. Especially when the hard road seems to just go on endlessly.


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## Feng Leng

KurtisBrian said:


> Your statement seems more like a frustrated reference to the endless greed and nuclear intimidation used by the USA and UK perhaps France and Russia too. Probably easier to join them then walk the hard road. Especially when the hard road seems to just go on endlessly.


LOL whatever you say. Ask a Uighur what a "hard road" means for him

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## beijingwalker

Girls serving on carriers look so cool


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## Itachi

Feng Leng said:


> The CDC is for preventing diseases too that didn't stop COVID-19 now did it?



And the Chinese CDC stopped the disease also??  



Feng Leng said:


> LOL whatever you say. We can do whatever we want because we have a huge nuclear arsenal and an itchy trigger finger. You can pay lip service promoting terrorists



First take Taiwan before chest thumping like an idiot. We'll see if your missiles work then or not.


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## beijingwalker

Uighur girls serving in PLNA

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## Feng Leng

Itachi said:


> And the Chinese CDC stopped the disease also??


If your THAAD is anything like your CDC, you will be glowing in the dark from a DF-41 


Itachi said:


> First take Taiwan before chest thumping like an idiot. We'll see if your missiles work then or not.


LOL you already betrayed Taiwan

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## beijingwalker

Xi jingping talks to Uighur soldier on the Chinese aircraft carrier







Uighur female soldiers serving in PLNA, Protecting Chinese waters in South China Sea

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## beijingwalker

Uighur female soldiers serving in PLNA, Protecting Chinese waters in South China Sea

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## beijingwalker

驻港部队从乌鲁木齐市应征的10名维吾尔族女青年在乌鲁木齐机场乘机赴驻港部队，女兵家长到机场送行。应征女青年地丽努尔·艾合买提兴奋地告诉记者：“能到驻港部队当兵，感到非常骄傲自豪”。图为女青年依孜提古丽-艾尼与家人合影。 

10 Uighur girls say goodbye to their parents and fly to Hong kong to join PLA Hong kong garrison to fullfill their PLA glorious mission of safeguarding Hong kong's peace and stability.
It's a great honor to serve in Hong kong for mother China, they said to their parents and families who are there to see them off.

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## Globenim

Shocking news. Notoric liar doesnt parrot a lie.

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## Adonis

beijingwalker said:


> Who is the world?



every one outside China


----------



## TaiShang

W need a long, comprehensive documentary on life on the AC. - maybe after the third one is commissioned.

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## Feng Leng

Adonis said:


> every one outside China


Ask Pakistan if they care.

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## beijingwalker

Adonis said:


> every one outside China


Then we get this
*Arab Barometer: 52% of Moroccans Favor China Over US, MENA countries favor China over US*








Arab Barometer: 52% of Moroccans Favor China Over US


Rabat - A new survey from Arab Barometer shows that 52% of Moroccans view China more favorably than




www.moroccoworldnews.com





*when asked if the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) was forced to align itself with either the US or China, a majority in seven of the 10 ASEAN member countries chose China.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1217813126269173760*








China enters 2021 a stronger, more influential power — and Australia may feel the squeeze even more


As China’s influence and economic strength grows, it is unlikely to give middle powers like Australia more latitude to manage their relations with both Beijing and Washington.




theconversation.com

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## Beast

TaiShang said:


> W need a long, comprehensive documentary on life on the AC. - maybe after the third one is commissioned.


Not only that, they need to show some footage on ops on the deck.

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## beijingwalker

First Uighur female PLNA officer serving on the Chinese carrier, a shining role model admired by many young Uighur girls

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## 8888888888888

Better let them go back to their home city, the SCS might be a front line in the future due to USA interference.


----------



## kuge

seriously i hope those pretty faces will not be in charge of the carriers in real wars...women are not natural to lead an assault


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## Imad.Khan

Some of the girls i can pick as Kazakh or Uighur but some of the girls look Han Chinese


----------



## TaiShang

Imad.Khan said:


> Some of the girls i can pick as Kazakh or Uighur but some of the girls look Han Chinese



Well, all are citizen of China. Ethnic specification is just an outcome of being a republic - very much like the US.


Beast said:


> Not only that, they need to show some footage on ops on the deck.



I agree. Embedded journalists, like they do in the US, can engage in a month-long observation of a mission, and then make it a nice documentary. 

Need to learn better from US propaganda methods. They are not necessarily all bad.


----------



## beijingwalker

Imad.Khan said:


> Some of the girls i can pick as Kazakh or Uighur but some of the girls look Han Chinese


Most Kazakhs look the same as Mongolians and Han Chinese. A Han Chinese can blend perfectly in Kazakhstan.

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## Place Of Space

Imad.Khan said:


> Some of the girls i can pick as Kazakh or Uighur but some of the girls look Han Chinese


Yes, some are mixed blood.


beijingwalker said:


> Most Kazakhs look the same as Mongolians and Han Chinese. A Han Chinese can blend perfectly in Kazakhstan.


Kazakh is islaminized Mongolian.

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## Itachi

Feng Leng said:


> If your THAAD is anything like your CDC, you will be glowing in the dark from a DF-41



Then what is China waiting for......come test the THAAD if you got the balls.  



Feng Leng said:


> LOL you already betrayed Taiwan



Don't care. Be a man and tell Xi to invade Taiwan. Let's see if China got them balls.


----------



## Imad.Khan

TaiShang said:


> *Well, all are citizen of China*. Ethnic specification is just an outcome of being a republic - very much like the US.



*@Bold* where did i say that they ain't Chinese citizen ?


----------



## Adonis

Feng Leng said:


> Ask Pakistan if they care.



Don't have to ask them...they can't go against you...any case Let's me correct...so the world is anything outside China and it's satellite colonies....


----------



## Itachi

Feng Leng said:


> Ask Pakistan if they care.



Many Pakistanis do. The Pakistani state isn't a litmus test for the people.


----------



## Adonis

beijingwalker said:


> Then we get this
> *Arab Barometer: 52% of Moroccans Favor China Over US, MENA countries favor China over US*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Barometer: 52% of Moroccans Favor China Over US
> 
> 
> Rabat - A new survey from Arab Barometer shows that 52% of Moroccans view China more favorably than
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.moroccoworldnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *when asked if the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) was forced to align itself with either the US or China, a majority in seven of the 10 ASEAN member countries chose China.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1217813126269173760*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China enters 2021 a stronger, more influential power — and Australia may feel the squeeze even more
> 
> 
> As China’s influence and economic strength grows, it is unlikely to give middle powers like Australia more latitude to manage their relations with both Beijing and Washington.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theconversation.com



So private surveys are the benchmark...you pay, they will deliver what you ask for..... when China has bought WHO, a private survey agency is no big deal


----------



## TaiShang

Imad.Khan said:


> *@Bold* where did i say that they ain't Chinese citizen ?



I just do not like this republican obsession with minorities. It is a necessity, but, I think too much republicanIsm (in classical sense) slows down nation building. Still, if successful eventually, I admit, republicanIsm creates stronger nations. I think in China, the initial stages of republicanism is already over. That's why I stressed citizenship.

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## Feng Leng

Itachi said:


> Then what is China waiting for......come test the THAAD if you got the balls.


You are already dying en mass from covid-19. We will treat you like you treated the Native Indians. The disease will kill off most of you. The survivors will face our guns and steel 



Itachi said:


> Don't care. Be a man and tell Xi to invade Taiwan. Let's see if China got them balls.


LMFAO you already surrendered Taiwan 



Itachi said:


> Many Pakistanis do. The Pakistani state isn't a litmus test for the people.


Then ask Turkey LMFAO

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## Itachi

Feng Leng said:


> You are already dying en mass from covid-19. We will treat you like you treated the Native Indians. The disease will kill off most of you. The survivors will face our guns and steel



Hahahaha

Even the survivors will be enough to face you guys. The disease will kill everyone...including Chinese. Worry about yourself before others.



Feng Leng said:


> Then ask Turkey LMFAO



What does Turkey have to do with the discussion at hand lol?


----------



## Feng Leng

Itachi said:


> What does Turkey have to do with the discussion at hand lol?











Turkey is accused of extraditing Uighur Muslims to China in exchange for COVID-19 vaccines


Turkey expected China's Sinovac vaccine in early December, but it was weeks delayed. Some politicians suggested China was using it as leverage.




www.businessinsider.com





   Even Sultan Ergodan sees the light!

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## Itachi

Feng Leng said:


> 'Sold out': Uighurs fear deportation as China ratifies extradition treaty with Turkey
> 
> 
> Uighur activists urge Turkish government not to abide by agreement that could put tens of thousands at risk of being detained in internment camps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.middleeasteye.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even Sultan Ergodan sees the light!


















You guys are minced meat. 








Azeris Droning Armenians


Watch "Azeris Droning Armenians" on Streamable.




streamable.com


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## beijingwalker

Uighur girl retired from PLNA, A life time wealth to treasure , You served the country, and country will remember.

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## xuxu1457

People in Xinjiang will be very beautiful when they get rich. People are beautiful and food is delicious.

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## Shehr Abbasi

xuxu1457 said:


> People in Xinjiang will be very beautiful when they get rich. People are beautiful and food is delicious.


People of Xinjiang, Turkic, Arabic, Persian, Islamic regions have always been beautiful... and no thanks, we don't have a obsession with money. It's not my people's purpose in life to chase after money like wild animals... A Chinese Communist Buddhist person has no right to speak on behalf on my people.


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## beijingwalker

First PLA Uighur trainer for drones in top Chinese PLA university

Enwer is a female PLA trainer for military drones operation in a top PLA college , training PLA officers and soldiers flying and operating drones for military purposes.

Her grandfather was among the first group of Uighur PLA soldiers and served in PLA for 39 years, her father followed her grandfather footstep, joined PLA and serve in PLA for 42 years, she carries on her family tradition and becomes an accomplished young PLA officer and drone pilot trainer. She hopes that with the help of her training and teaching, all PLA soldiers and officers can be like soaring eagles, fly high up in the sky and have eyes like eagles .

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## Trango Towers

beijingwalker said:


> 3 Uighur PLNA girls from Xinjiang Aksu retired from China's first aircraft carrier Liaoning and joined police department in Aksu, Xinjiang
> 
> 
> 在这其中，有3名来自新疆阿克苏的年轻女兵。她们之中有担任过辽宁舰航母本舰的指挥，参与过航母交接入列，参加过航母历次试验试航和舰载战斗机着舰起飞，迎接国家领导人检阅等重大任务的经历。
> 
> 
> 她们就是现任阿克苏市公安局政治处民警克比努尔·吐鲁洪、买热木尼沙·吐尔逊以及夏地古丽。虽然现在都已退伍从警，但她们将辽宁舰的精神一直延续到今天。
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 682115
> 
> View attachment 682116
> 
> View attachment 682118
> 
> View attachment 682119


I want one....but which one


----------



## masterchief_mirza

Itachi said:


> The US invented those. I'm talking about nations that can back up China when war starts....the US is already part of NATO.
> 
> 
> What military treaties is China part of??


You underestimate China's friends, especially in the region. At the same time, you grossly overestimate NATO.

Why is USA so desperately trying to get India to aggressively posture against China and tie down Chinese forces on the LAC? The reason is quite simply that NATO has no teeth outside of Europe and North America. This isn't a simple stand off against the Warsaw Pact where a solid front line was established, sucking the life out of USSR's European strategy. NATO cannot and doesn't wish to assist USA in its Asian-Pacific misadventure.


----------



## beijingwalker

Shehr Abbasi said:


> People of Xinjiang, Turkic, Arabic, Persian, Islamic regions have always been beautiful... and no thanks, we don't have a obsession with money. It's not my people's purpose in life to chase after money like wild animals... A Chinese Communist Buddhist person has no right to speak on behalf on my people.


Xinjiang youth warn enemies of China and terrorists not to mess with China and stay away from her cause if you China haters do you'll be certainly doomed and China will become your graveyard.

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## beijingwalker

Adonis said:


> So private surveys are the benchmark...you pay, they will deliver what you ask for..... when China has bought WHO, a private survey agency is no big deal


So what is your benchmark? mind to specify?


----------



## Shehr Abbasi

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang youth warn enemies of China and terrorists not to mess with China and stay away from her cause if you China haters do you'll be certainly doomed and China will become your graveyard.


 A Chinese Communist Buddhist person has no right to speak on behalf on my people.


----------



## beijingwalker

Place Of Space said:


> Kazakh is islaminized Mongolian.


Exactly, Most Kazakhs look the same as Han Chinese, but Uighurs do mostly look different from Han with various degrees


----------



## xuxu1457

Shehr Abbasi said:


> People of Xinjiang, Turkic, Arabic, Persian, Islamic regions have always been beautiful... and no thanks, we don't have a obsession with money. It's not my people's purpose in life to chase after money like wild animals... A Chinese Communist Buddhist person has no right to speak on behalf on my people.


What an extreme idea! 
State and religionIn East Asia, the state is always above religion.
Distinguish people by region, not by religion
Besides, I'm not religious, even though my mother is a Christian. I have a closer relationship with Muslims in my city than I do with the Han Chinese in Xinjiang, because we come from the same place.No one here cares about religion, only about hometown

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## Place Of Space

Shehr Abbasi said:


> A Chinese Communist Buddhist person has no right to speak on behalf on my people.


idiot, who's your people?

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## Shehr Abbasi

xuxu1457 said:


> *State and religionIn East Asia, the state is always above religion.*


Yes thats an idea of Leninist-Marxism: to destroy all religions & only the state ideology exists.

You indeed are brutal people with no shame.


----------



## Place Of Space

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang youth warn enemies of China and terrorists not to mess with China and stay away from her cause if you China haters do you'll be certainly doomed and China will become your graveyard.


cute


----------



## Shehr Abbasi

Place Of Space said:


> idiot, who's your people?


Ask the Uyghur people, you idiot.

They consider every Muslim & Muslims only, whether they are from Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey, India, Sudan, Somalia, anywhere in the world, as their blood brother.

You have no connection to Uyghur people, absolutely nothing.


----------



## beijingwalker

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Ask the Uyghur people, you idiot.
> 
> They consider every Muslim & Muslims only, whether they are from Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey, India, Sudan, Somalia, anywhere in the world, as their blood brother.
> 
> You have no connection to Uyghur people, absolutely nothing.


See the connecting between we Chinese, we have no connection with you.

*Xinjiang girl proudly pulls out her Chinese ID card




*

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## Place Of Space

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Ask the Uyghur people, you idiot.
> 
> They consider every Muslim & Muslims only, whether they are from Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey, India, Sudan, Somalia, anywhere in the world, as their blood brother.
> 
> You have no connection to Uyghur people, absolutely nothing.


idiot, we have 100 times more connections with Uighurs than you. Well, you have more connections with uighurs terrorists in Syria I guess.

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## Shehr Abbasi

beijingwalker said:


> See the connecting between we Chinese, they have no connection with you.
> 
> *Xinjiang girl proudly pulls out her Chinese ID card
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Desperate attempt, haha.. thats not a connection.


Place Of Space said:


> idiot, we have 100 times more connections with Uighurs than you. Well, you have more connections with uighurs terrorists in Syria I guess.


Idiot, idiot, idiot. You have no connection with Uyghurs. Nothing. You are a desperate Han Chinese. Shameful.


----------



## beijingwalker

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Desperate attempt, haha.. thats not a connection.
> 
> Idiot, idiot, idiot. You have no connection with Uyghurs. Nothing. You are a desperate Han Chinese. Shameful.


They connection is we all speak Mandarin Chinese, live in the same country, holds the same national ID cards, enjoy the same entertainmnets and watch same dramas, movies and like same celebrities, use Weixi, Weibo, Alipay, Tik tok.. everyday, what's their connection with you?

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## Shehr Abbasi

beijingwalker said:


> They connection is we all speak Chinese, live in the same country, holds the same national ID cards, enjoy the same entertainmnets and watch same dramas, movies and like same celebrities, use Weixi, Weibo, Alipay, Tik tok.. everyday, what's their connection with you?


Han, go back and read, I'm not gonna repeat myself.


----------



## Titanium100

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Desperate attempt, haha.. thats not a connection.
> 
> Idiot, idiot, idiot. You have no connection with Uyghurs. Nothing. You are a desperate Han Chinese. Shameful.



Change your flag to India. Deport yourself to Bangularu


----------



## Shehr Abbasi

Titanium100 said:


> Change your flag to India. Deport yourself to Bangularu and accept embrace the Hindu faith


You are close to the Hindu faith. You are a polytheist Buddhist that worships statues. You are of the same fold. Might as well put a dot on your head.


----------



## beijingwalker

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Han, go back and read, I'm not gonna repeat myself.


lol, this common street scene in today's Xinjiang is more like China or your middle east?？this is the connection,we share the same mind but not yours.

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## lcloo

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Ask the Uyghur people, you idiot.
> 
> They consider every Muslim & Muslims only, whether they are from Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey, India, Sudan, Somalia, anywhere in the world, as their blood brother.
> 
> You have no connection to Uyghur people, absolutely nothing.


Sounds like ISIS, ISIS terrorists have no identification with their country of birth.

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## Titanium100

Shehr Abbasi said:


> You are close to the Hindu faith. You are a polytheist Buddhist that worships statues. You are of the same fold. Might as well put a dot on your head.



I am Muslim monotheist. You are a fifth column. You are attacking Pakistani interests unprovoked

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## Shehr Abbasi

Titanium100 said:


> I am Muslim monotheist. You are a fifth column


Nope. You saying so doesn't even weigh a feather.


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## shi12jun

Hahaha  , seeing those anti-Chinese clowns is really funny. The powerful China doesn't care about you anti-Chinese clowns. China's rise is unstoppable

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## xuxu1457

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Yes thats an idea of Leninist-Marxism: to destroy all religions & only the state ideology exists.
> 
> You indeed are brutal people with no shame.


Interesting idea. Why destroy religion? Religion is part of society. The world is not white or black, but in the middle gray.
Power has boundaries，Countries have boundaries, cultures have boundaries, religions have boundaries and societies have boundaries. Nothing is infinitely expandable.
Religion is the same，70% of Korean Christians have not been to church for 5 years，But they still insist that they are Christians.In fact, this is the difference of religion under different cultural backgrounds. In the framework of East Asian countries, whether Japan, South Korea or China，The state is the outermost border，It includes politics, economy, culture, Military,people, law and government. Religion belongs to the aspect of social culture. Religion can not be extended to politics, military, state, economy and law. This is the understanding of people in East Asia. It seems unimaginable to us that Christianity could collect taxes in the Middle Ages of Europe. Now Christianity is returning to its original position.

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## beijingwalker

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Ask the Uyghur people, you idiot.
> They consider every Muslim & Muslims only, whether they are from Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey, India, Sudan, Somalia, anywhere in the world, as their blood brother.


Then why they fight each other while China is a friend of all of them but they themselves always fight each other?

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## Shehr Abbasi

xuxu1457 said:


> Religion can not be extended to politics, military, state, economy and law.


Cut the bluff, you support Leninist-Marxism.


beijingwalker said:


> Then why they fight each other while China is a friend of all of them but they themselves always fight each other?


China commits genocide and is fraud country. You are the aggressor and most biggest culprit from having world peace.


----------



## Titanium100

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Nope. You saying so doesn't even weigh a feather.



You are on a nefarious campaign BUT it doesn't fly here. I would appreciate if the forum fixed these fifth columns who are willing to attack Pakistani state interests

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## Shehr Abbasi

Titanium100 said:


> You are on a nefarious campaign BUT it doesn't fly here. I would appreciate if the forum fixed these fifth columns who are willing to attack Pakistani state interests


Don't need your wack opinion.


----------



## xuxu1457

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Cut the bluff, you support Leninist-Marxism.


What is useful can be used, and for us, that is not important
Socialism, Marxism-Leninism, Capitalism, these are not very important, I haven't heard people around me say Marxism-Leninism for a long time.
Deng Xiaoping said that a black cat or a white cat catching a mouse are good cats.

Chinese people don't really believe in anything, we only believe in how to be better.One day, Marxism-Leninism can be discarded at any time when it is not good for us.

the average Chinese,When he started his business， he will put a statue of the God of Wealth in his house and call the God of Wealth every day, and then incense the God of Wealth. Of course, one day he will not do business, and the statue of the God of Wealth will be taken away immediately.
East Asian countries are purely secular countries.

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## Titanium100

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Don't need your wack opinion.



I have even seen you left a pro-indian post! You got some demonic possession or what

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## Orkunhun

I have no problem seeing Uyghurs, Khazaks or any other citizens of the Peoples Republic of China having equal opportunity, rights, responsibility and loyalty to their country.

What I do not like is, enforcement of any law abiding people to take part in "re-education" facilities to change their culture, language, religion or habits or creating of such laws to enable this treatment.

The way and intensity of some form participants, to show how happy and prosperous the Uyghurs or Khazaks are, accompanied with fairy book like photographs and videos, actually increase my suspicion that in reality something really bad is going on and all these efforts are part of an cover-up operation.

Sad.

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## Shehr Abbasi

Titanium100 said:


> I have even seen you left a pro-indian post. WTF! You got some demonic possession or what


Yea, comparing Kashmir to Xianjing is comparing apple to oranges. Both are horrible messes, but China's on an another level (a level that is lightyears apart) and must be condemned.

At least I can speak to Kashmiris, & they support Pakistan because there is no Firewall in India and they dont block all websites & communications like Communist China... Have you ever had a chance and talked to a single Uyghur person in your life and ask how they feel? Me neither.

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## Dungeness

Adonis said:


> every one outside China



A world defined by a kiwi.


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## Titanium100

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Yea, comparing Kashmir to Xianjing is comparing apple to oranges. Both are horrible messes, but China's on an another level and must be condemned.
> 
> At least I can speak to Kashmiris, & they support Pakistan because there is no Firewall in India and they dont block all websites & communications like Communist China... Have you ever talked to a single Uyghur person in your life and ask how they feel? Me neither.



You have already bought into the propaganda or just playing deaf. The whole thing is fake you can do investigation into it if you want. It came with the trade war to assure China gets blocked by more countries was the plan. It was propaganda that came along the trade war it only intensified as the trade war went one. It was used as a card

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## beijingwalker

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Have you ever had a chance and talked to a single Uyghur person in your life and ask how they feel? Me neither.


Many Uighurs have their personal youtube channels and they interact with subscribers








安妮古丽


这个YouTube频道是新疆安妮古丽的官方频道，各位观众小伙伴们不要迷路啦！ 大美中国，记录生活，我在风景里等你！安妮古丽带你看遍新疆，吃遍新疆，玩遍新疆！ 未经允许，禁止盗运视频，转载请注明出处！ 标签：新疆 维吾尔族 爱生活 地址：新疆乌鲁木齐 I am a Uighur girl from Xinjiang...




www.youtube.com












凯迪娅娅


新疆维吾尔族妹子，带你走近南疆生活！感谢关注呦～




www.youtube.com




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbAjX3EWsn3nBKTAPDgc01g
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLQdazVVULqguehwaWNxUxg








美丽的新疆女孩


在霍城的生活，记录简单又不平凡的故事




www.youtube.com




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAN9yn8S_Ql3s7ZP9OCVhPw
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBm1_MO8ZeVJKoM1wVG6IMA
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdxfDTc9C0d9SuSaMJ_W2UA/videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH_ckvMS0Mx50BeOw6nqlzQ

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## Shehr Abbasi

Titanium100 said:


> You have already bought into the propaganda or just playing deaf. The whole thing is fake who can do investigation into it if you want. It came with the trade war to assure China gets blocked more countries was the plan


How is this propaganda? 

Have you ever had a chance and talked to a single Uyghur person in your life and ask how they feel? Me neither.

I'm saying actually talked to a Uyghur person and not watched real propaganda which would be CCP video of Uyghur forced to demonstrate nationalism. 

I want to emphasize:* talking to a real Uyghur person*... and have a real conversation about what they feel.

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## shi12jun

There is a popular saying on the Internet in China that you can’t convince a stupid man. The best way is to support him to continue to be a big idiot


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## Titanium100

Shehr Abbasi said:


> How is this propaganda?
> 
> Have you ever had a chance and talked to a single Uyghur person in your life and ask how they feel? Me neither.
> 
> I'm saying actually talked to a Uyghur person and not watched real propaganda which would be CCP video of Uyghur forced to demonstrate nationalism.
> 
> I want to emphasize:* talking to a real Uyghur person*... and have a real conversation about what they feel.



The others are paid on the otherside by nefarious people. You can even see the chinese entertainment there are Uighurs it is not as it seems but it is being used to blackmail china. Even the Kazakh President it was fake on an Interview and he speaks Chinese and understands the culture

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## Shehr Abbasi

Titanium100 said:


> The others are paid on the otherside by nefarious people. You can even see the chinese entertainment there are Uighurs it is not as it seems but it is being used to blackmail china


It's not a real interaction. Just videos!

You can see interviews of Uyghur escapees to other countries, and they condemn China. What about them? Are they blackmailed by US?


----------



## Titanium100

Shehr Abbasi said:


> It's not a real interaction. Just videos!
> 
> You can see interviews of Uyghur escapees to other countries, and they condemn China. What about them? Are they blackmailed by US?



You shouldn't take anything the western media reporting as fact you need a third view on this then you will know that this is exaggerate and fake for a purpose. There is a motive behind everything who gains from this? ask yourself this question. Trade war going on while this was blasted allover the place because they were expecting that China will get trade blocked that was the initial idea

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## beijingwalker

Shehr Abbasi said:


> It's not a real interaction. Just videos!
> 
> You can see interviews of Uyghur escapees to other countries, and they condemn China. What about them? Are they blackmailed by US?


Subsribe their channels and you can chat with them, The majority of Xinjiang people live in XInjiang, not other countries.
This Uighur girl is the top award winning foreign student in US, the best of the best of all young Uighurs, does she condemn China?

Uighur girl, US presidenttial award winner top foreign student in US, intends to come back to Xinjiang to contribute to her hometown.

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## Place Of Space

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Desperate attempt, haha.. thats not a connection.
> 
> Idiot, idiot, idiot. You have no connection with Uyghurs. Nothing. You are a desperate Han Chinese. Shameful.


You are barking in the open air, idiot. You call our nationality your people. Have You freed Jerusalem, desperate idiot, you can't even handle the tiny Israel.

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## xuxu1457

Orkunhun said:


> I have no problem seeing Uyghurs, Khazaks or any other citizens of the Peoples Republic of China having equal opportunity, rights, responsibility and loyalty to their country.
> 
> What I do not like is, enforcement of any law abiding people to take part in "re-education" facilities to change their culture, language, religion or habits or creating of such laws to enable this treatment.
> 
> The way and intensity of some form participants, to show how happy and prosperous the Uyghurs or Khazaks are, accompanied with fairy book like photographs and videos, actually increase my suspicion that in reality something really bad is going on and all these efforts are part of an cover-up operation.
> 
> Sad.


Don't be fooled by the Western media. There is no compulsion, and there are re-learning schools established after 2015. 

There are two kinds，one is for criminals，The other is open to society, and anyone who wants to go can go.In fact, it is a skill training school to learn hairdressing, hairdressing, driving all kinds of vehicles, English skills, cooking and other skills.In other parts of China, these government-run schools charge fees; in Xinjiang, they are free. This policy has been a success. Criminals have acquired skills, and when they come out, they can find jobs，Ordinary people can also learn skills, learn languages and find jobs for free. There have been no terrorist attacks in Xinjiang in the past five years. 
The Xinjiang issue is essentially an economic issue. There were no contradictions before the 1990s. The northern part of Xinjiang is mainly Han people, and the southern part is mainly Uighurs. Before, everyone was poor and fair. Of course, there was no contradiction.

After the reform and opening up, China's economy took off, the Han people have language advantages, good at doing business, the northern development is fast, the local Han people become more wealthy than the Uighur people，Uyghur people think that now you are making money, you have the advantage, of course, we are not satisfied. 

then The government and enterprises have invested a lot in Xinjiang, established enterprises and recruited workers.Uyghur people used to have a lot of illiteracy, re-learning schools opened, the Uyghur unemployment rate is now very low. When you get rich, you will not be easily influenced by extreme ideas. 
This is the way China is dealing with the Xinjiang issue now, so that Uygur people can have a job and make money. And they have an advantage. They're good at doing business with Muslim countries.
The Communist Party is not that stupid. It's not like they want to exterminate the Uighurs or exterminate religion. To run this place, not to screw it up.

According to the Western media, Uighurs should always be poor, never need jobs, and only need to become terrorists

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## retaxis

Place Of Space said:


> You are barking in the open air, idiot. You call our nationality your people. Have You freed Jerusalem, desperate idiot, you can't even handle the tiny Israel.


His people are just terrorists. Terrorists try to make you forget your country and believe a lie for you to die for. Let the terrorist bark all he wants, if he is a 1/10 of a man, he would fight the PLA but he is just a sissy among real men.

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## Place Of Space

retaxis said:


> His people are just terrorists. Terrorists try to make you forget your country and believe a lie for you to die for. Let the terrorist bark all he wants, if he is a 1/10 of a man, he would fight the PLA but he is just a sissy among real men.


Don't know who it is. I use phone to skip this forum conveniently, so most time I don't know posters' flag or nationality at all if I didn't know him before.

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## IndiaIsBad

Since youtube is blocked in xingxiang, its clear that all such videos posted are propaganda videos only.


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## xuxu1457

IndiaIsBad said:


> Since youtube is blocked in xingxiang, its clear that all such videos posted are propaganda videos only.


Free VPN online direct download is, I use is.


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## Place Of Space

IndiaIsBad said:


> Since youtube is blocked in xingxiang, its clear that all such videos posted are propaganda videos only.


China request YouTube to obey Chinese laws, it refuse. China request YouTube to stop instigating riots and terrorism in China, it refuse. We did give YouTube chances. If YouTube can get the margin of free speech, can learn laws, it will have chance in the future. But the opportunity is few considering the competition between America and China, YouTube as an American company has to firstly please and serve American interests, propagandas.


----------



## beijingwalker

*Moving China| Winter scenery of Peacock River in Korla*

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## striver44

masterchief_mirza said:


> You underestimate China's friends, especially in the region. At the same time, you grossly overestimate NATO.
> 
> Why is USA so desperately trying to get India to aggressively posture against China and tie down Chinese forces on the LAC? The reason is quite simply that NATO has no teeth outside of Europe and North America. This isn't a simple stand off against the Warsaw Pact where a solid front line was established, sucking the life out of USSR's European strategy. NATO cannot and doesn't wish to assist USA in its Asian-Pacific misadventure.


Yes but they have QUAD. China don't have an equal for the QUAD


----------



## masterchief_mirza

striver44 said:


> Yes but they have QUAD. China don't have an equal for the QUAD


Come on dude. You're setting me up here to troll you. Please don't. Don't make me do it!


----------



## striver44

masterchief_mirza said:


> Come on dude. You're setting me up here to troll you. Please don't. Don't make me do it!


Do it.


----------



## masterchief_mirza

striver44 said:


> Do it.


Nope. I know your game. Not gonna work.


----------



## striver44

😎


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

_Any military alliance is as lame as it can gets unless the real superpower behind it is fully committed. USA will only acts in its own interest. 

Historical fact: USA only entered into Asia arena during WW2, not to save Asia but because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. The other thing was, USA was never really got involved in the war until after Communist Army destroyed Japan War Machines manufacturing bases in North Eastern China hondering the ability to wage war. 

Duterte remembers the Massacre of Manila. Where was USA then? Then General MacArthur landed in the Philippines lodly announcing his arrival: I have returned claiming FULL credit. 
but what about those unknown resistance fighters who died fight the invaders. 

IMO the members of the QUAD are merely chess pawns and like ants will be trampled when the elephants fight. 

Philippines President appears so brilliant today in front of these Quad clowns. _


----------



## type93

Boris knows that the sob story of 2019 is just turkish propaganda issued as part of the protocols of the elders of Turan in order to look past the real turkish genocides against Syrian and kurds.

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## qwerrty

western media:

china destroying deserts
china destroying desert ecosystem
china forces desert to grow cotton
chyna baad
chyna


----------



## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker




----------



## Char

fisher1 said:


> Their ideology is similar to Nazis. They think they're some superior race. It's the reason why they're purging every other ethnicity.
> 
> They're extremely racist towards foreigners, something which we saw happen to Africans.



I watched a vlog of Chinese in Africa, the Chinese man teach black kids cooking Chinese food, the Chinese call a black boy little monkey, you may declare this is racism, but it's not a problem for both African and Chinese.

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## beijingwalker

Another massive under construction concentration camp in Xinjiang spotted by western satelite


----------



## beijingwalker

The west will report finding a new concentration camp for children in Xinjiang.


----------



## Place Of Space

beijingwalker said:


> The west will report finding a new concentration camp for children in Xinjiang.


Dear, the West had won the cold war by propagandas, during 40 years cold war, the West propagandas targeting at Islam readers it simplify and emphasize communism as atheists, at rich nations readers it simplify and emphasize communism as robbing of private wealth, at new established nations reader, it simplify and emphasize communism as revolution, it has very deliberate views for each individual group and it continue to plant the propagandas in readers minds. In this case, Muslim just know communism is atheist, don't know other contents of communism; rich guys just know communism want egalitarianism, don't know other parts... You can only change it gradually now, waiting for West more and more failture. Focus on internal grows, and wait for the world changes. 

Do you see any Korean, Japanese, Mongolian and South American posters in this forum? They have no Muslim problem, They don't care it at all. I have deeply think about it. We should try to report more and more Islam related news worldwide and analysis, not just post things about China. Afterall, it is Muslims forum platform.


----------



## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Another massive under construction concentration camp in Xinjiang spotted by western satelite



A fact which China hasn't denied but confirmed and calls them re-education centre


----------



## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> A fact which China hasn't denied but confirmed and calls them re-education centre


China does have millions of vocational training centers and schools as part of nationwide adult re education system, where do you think China gets the world No.1 skilled labor force from?


----------



## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> China does have millions of vocational training centers and schools as part of nationwide adult re education system, where do you think China gets the world No.1 skilled labor force from?



From the prisoner Uighurs Muslim population


----------



## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> From the prisoner Uighurs Muslim population


Tell me another place where you can lock up a whole bunch of the local population yet achieve mind boggling massive growth and development.


----------



## KurtisBrian

bet people in the US and UK see those seats and are drooling over the chance to sit in them, stuff their faces and watch others live, work and play.

Quite the nice center there. Guess going to the center might be a good idea.


----------



## Indos

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang Urumqi Olympic park almost finished
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 30000 seat modern all purpose stadium, 12000 seats gymnasium, 2000 seats track and field stadium, 3000 seats swimming center, public sports center for variou sports, boxing, gym, badminton, tennis..., hotel complex for athletes and tourists.



Does Xinjiang is planned to host Summer Olympic Games some day ?


----------



## beijingwalker

Indos said:


> Does Xinjiang is planned to host Summer Olympic Games some day ?


Not likely, Xinjiang and Tibet are still relatively underdeveloped comparing to other regions in China, the chance for Xinjiang hosting Olympic Games is next to zero.

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang girls have something to say to Mr Pompeo*
*



*

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang girl to Pompeo : Our cows are fatter than you!




*

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang girl to Pompeo : Please shut up your evil filthy mouth!*

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## CAPRICORN-88

_IMO Mike Pompeo is an evil man. 
He is one of 28 former official sanctioned by China on Jan 20, 2021.
Now he is preparing to contest as the next US President in 2024.
Will he succeed? _

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## fallstuff

beijingwalker said:


> *Xinjiang girl to Pompeo : Please shut up your evil filthy mouth!*



little late dude, Pompeo is gone !

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang girl to Pompeo : Cut your nonsense , you are just a clown being laughed by everyone.




*

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## fallstuff

beijingwalker said:


> *Xinjiang girl to Pompeo : Cut your nonsense , you are just a clown being laughed by everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I suggest to make it more realistic have these girls talk in Uyghur language. 
That is propaganda 101. It will show that these girls are not being forced to speak non-native language while they have not so nice things to say about Mr. Pompeo !

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## -=virus=-

I wonder if @beijingwalker ever realizes how cringe some of this is

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## beijingwalker

fallstuff said:


> I suggest to make it more realistic have these girls talk in Uyghur language.
> That is propaganda 101. It will show that these girls are not being forced to speak non-native language while they have not so nice things to say about Mr. Pompeo !


What does it have anything to do with languages? but since you asked, there are so many on youtube, but those videos only have Chinese subtitles like this one.








-=virus=- said:


> I wonder if @beijingwalker ever realizes how cringe some of this is


Happy to make Indians cringe

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## Goritoes

Where are the Hijab-wearing women of Xinjiang? Are there any girls, Women who wear Hijab in that Province? Is it even Allowed?

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## beijingwalker

Goritoes said:


> Where are the Hijab-wearing women of Xinjiang? Are there any girls, Women who wear Hijab in that Province? Is it even Allowed?


Like in other central Asian Stan countries, Uighurs traditionally didn't wear hijabs, hijabs are relatively a new thing to Xinjiang from the middle east in recent decades. Older women still wear hijabs in Xinjiang, so it's not banned in Xinjiang, I heard in Kazakhstan hijabs are banned.

older people in XInjiang still wear head scarfs, but very rare among younger generations.

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## flameboard

beijingwalker said:


> *Xinjiang girls have something to say to Mr Pompeo*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


Are you dumb enough to this all Xinjiang girls think the same?

China is trying to push the image that Uyghurs are happy dancing singing Disney cartoon village people that have no thoughts beyond singing and dancing, plus appreciation of China.

This video makes me more concerned than pacified


----------



## beijingwalker

Uighur twin stisters go to a friend's birthday party in a rural Xinjiang village. birthday style is mixed in rural XInjiang, some western elements, some Uighur elements and they sing Han Chinese songs.








flameboard said:


> Are you dumb enough to this all Xinjiang girls think the same?
> This video makes me more concerned than pacified


No one tries to pacify you, what do you have to do with China? I m talking western media lies.

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## TaiShang

More than half of the US population think Pompeo is a lying fascist.

The other half think he will MAGA. 

That's his legacy.

I think China drove him slightly insane.

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## flameboard

beijingwalker said:


> Uighur twin stisters go to a friend's birthday party in a rural Xinjiang village. birthday style is mixed in rural XInjiang, some western elements, some Uighur elements and they sing Han Chinese songs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one tries to pacify you, what do you have to do with China? I m talking western media lies.


Bro even China has released a statement birth rates are down in Xinjiang. Last year there were reports of forced sterilization. Things are not fun for MANY people on account of forced re-education in imprisonment

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## beijingwalker

flameboard said:


> Bro even China has released a statement birth rates are down in Xinjiang.


Birth rate is down in China, it's not news. it's sign that China is posed to join developed countries with high income and lower birth rate, it's common situation around the world.

*Lies debunked about Xinjiang birth control*




*How media outlets manipulate facts about Xinjiang population*

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## beijingwalker

flameboard said:


> Bro even China has released a statement birth rates are down in Xinjiang. Last year there were reports of forced sterilization. Things are not fun for MANY people on account of forced re-education in imprisonment


_Tell_ _me_ _another_ place where you can lock up a whole bunch of the local population yet achieve mind boggling massive growth and develop_me_nt.

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## arjunk

Goritoes said:


> Where are the Hijab-wearing women of Xinjiang? Are there any girls, Women who wear Hijab in that Province? Is it even Allowed?


Hijab is an arab piece of clothing IIRC, central asia isn't influenced by arabs much.

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## flameboard

beijingwalker said:


> _Tell_ _me_ _another_ place where you can lock up a whole bunch of the local population yet achieve mind boggling massive growth and develop_me_nt.


Palestine, South Africa during apartheid.

Zionists have programs geared towards competing their population growth. They have had a problem with Palestinians because the Palestinian birth rate has remained so high despite programs to slow it down which haven’t had as great an impact they would have wanted


----------



## beijingwalker

flameboard said:


> Palestine, South Africa during apartheid.


Palestine, South Africa were very developed and their population were locked up in camps?


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

flameboard said:


> Bro even China has released a statement birth rates are down in Xinjiang. Last year there were reports of forced sterilization. Things are not fun for MANY people on account of forced re-education in imprisonment






Do you have a link to any evidence that confirms this?


----------



## flameboard

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Do you have a link to any evidence that confirms this?











Chinese Embassy tweet about Uighurs and birth rate draws instant condemnation


In a new state media report, the Chinese government is defending its policies against Muslim women in the country's westernmost province, where it's been accused of forced mass sterilization -- a horrific crime it strongly denies. In a tweet Thursday, the Chinese Embassy in the U.S. shared the...




www.yahoo.com






beijingwalker said:


> Palestine, South Africa were very developed and their population were locked up in camps?


Do a quick Google search bro. Palestine and South African apartheid met the criteria you set for Xinjiang Uygurs. If it doesn’t make you happy... sorry the truth hurts sometimes


----------



## beijingwalker

flameboard said:


> Chinese Embassy tweet about Uighurs and birth rate draws instant condemnation
> 
> 
> In a new state media report, the Chinese government is defending its policies against Muslim women in the country's westernmost province, where it's been accused of forced mass sterilization -- a horrific crime it strongly denies. In a tweet Thursday, the Chinese Embassy in the U.S. shared the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com


The wording needs to be refined but the point is correct, we always say this sentence in Chinese, nothing wrong with it.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

flameboard said:


> Chinese Embassy tweet about Uighurs and birth rate draws instant condemnation
> 
> 
> In a new state media report, the Chinese government is defending its policies against Muslim women in the country's westernmost province, where it's been accused of forced mass sterilization -- a horrific crime it strongly denies. In a tweet Thursday, the Chinese Embassy in the U.S. shared the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com








The above evidence is not credible. It is from the americans. The SAME americans that also claimed Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins..............

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## beijingwalker

As for birth control, it's a policy only covered Han Chinese, minorities were exempt from this policy, so what kind of discrimination is it? Discrimination against Han Chinese?
You almost never see families having these many children among Han families.

A mother with her 4 chilren ( One child policy didn't apply to ethnic minorities in China ) are on a Urumqi subway train and the youngest kid drops some naan crumbs on the train floor, the mother takes time carefully cleaning the floor and in the end the oldest kid learns from her mother and wipes the seats clean from naan crumbs. Power of a good example especially from parents.


----------



## flameboard

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> The above evidence is not credible. It is from the americans. The SAME americans that also claimed Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins..............


Bro they’re quoting the Chinese Embassy tweet that’s their source. If you realize Chinese are not credible on this topic then maybe we’re making some head way

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> The above evidence is not credible. It is from the americans. The SAME americans that also claimed Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins..............






The tweet said nothing about imprisoning or oppressing anyone. It was just an opinion.

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## Place Of Space

flameboard said:


> Are you dumb enough to this all Xinjiang girls think the same?
> 
> China is trying to push the image that Uyghurs are happy dancing singing Disney cartoon village people that have no thoughts beyond singing and dancing, plus appreciation of China.
> 
> This video makes me more concerned than pacified



You concern a sht. Everything doesn't meet your expectations is propaganda. Continue to post these bulsht, all South Asians will not be welcome in China even meet racism attacks. My two cents.

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang girl to Pompeo : You are a flat liar full of nonsense*

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## beijingwalker

Uighur girl 阿曼古丽.米吉提 serving in Chinese military police force

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## beijingwalker

flameboard said:


> Palestine, South Africa during apartheid.


Palestine's GDP per capita is 3000$ per year, a little more than India's. South African's GDP per capita is 6000$, that's around half of China's. Your threshhold of being developed is too low.

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## beijingwalker

*Uighur exile leader Rebiya Kadeer's granddaughter has something to say to Pompeo




*Uighur to Pompeo: You are an evil, shameless, disgusting turd ( too much strong words and emotions in this video}

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang doesn't welcome you，#Pompeo ！




*

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## beijingwalker

Uighur girl teaches Pompeo a popular Uighur proverb in Uighur Language and asks Pompeo to guess the meaning of it : The dog can keep barking, but the camel still moves on.

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## OBLiTeRate TrumpTurd

de Deadly Lesson to all humans is ... ...

de Western whitey FAKE * Freedom & Backward DemoCrazy 
governments * ( 5 eyes nations ) have proven to ALWAYS 
* FAIL ... time and time again. 

~ UPDATE: ... ... 

Meanwhile, on the Land of the very RACIST Snakes n 
STUPID n DESTRUCTIVE Freedom, ... ... 

As of this minute, the Snakes USA already has 464,445 COVID deaths and 

the death numbers are growing astronomically every day. 

The undeniable Scientific fact has shown that the COVID viruses were 

originated and fabricated in Fort Derrick Lab, Maryland, USA on APR 2018. 

ProoF: ~ Go read the LANCET & NATURE journal.


----------



## aziqbal

this thread is full of fake Chinese fanboy propaganda and you idiots might fool yourself but you cant fool us, all paid actors nothing more 

rather than showing us this rubbish why not post videos of Chinese muslims with beards going to mosque and doing the call to prayer loudly?

because its all been banned thats why

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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> this thread is full of fake Chinese fanboy propaganda and you idiots might fool yourself but you cant fool us, all paid actors nothing more
> 
> rather than showing us this rubbish why not post videos of Chinese muslims with beards going to mosque and doing the call to prayer loudly?
> 
> because its all been banned thats why


Ok,I don't want to derail my own thread but what if I can?


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Like in other central Asian Stan countries, Uighurs traditionally didn't wear hijabs, hijabs are relatively a new thing to Xinjiang from the middle east in recent decades. Older women still wear hijabs in Xinjiang, so it's not banned in Xinjiang, I heard in Kazakhstan hijabs are banned.
> 
> older people in XInjiang still wear head scarfs, but very rare among younger generations.



Really??












^CCP officials cutting women clothing since....."extremism"...
















And I can post more.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Really??
> 
> View attachment 711867
> 
> 
> View attachment 711868
> 
> 
> ^CCP officials cutting women clothing since....."extremism"...
> 
> View attachment 711869
> 
> 
> View attachment 711870
> 
> 
> View attachment 711871
> 
> 
> And I can post more.


These are the pics of Urumqi riot happened over a decade ago in 2009. like to know more about this distant event in the history can check this video. some very bloody footage in this video.


----------



## Path-Finder

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _Will he succeed? _


yes, he is establishment!


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> These are the pics of Urumqi riot happened over a decade ago in 2009. like to know more about this distant event in the history can check this video. some very bloody footage in this video.



Some of the photos are very recent like below:

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## Shehr Abbasi

Itachi said:


> Really??
> 
> View attachment 711867
> 
> 
> View attachment 711868
> 
> 
> ^CCP officials cutting women clothing since....."extremism"...
> 
> View attachment 711869
> 
> 
> View attachment 711870
> 
> 
> View attachment 711871
> 
> 
> And I can post more.


I hate when these Chinese people think they have a right to speak on the obligations of our Deen.

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## Itachi

Shehr Abbasi said:


> I hate when these Chinese people think they have a right to speak on the obligations of our Deen.



And I hate people even more who fall for random *** YT videos made by a Chinese when we all know YT is banned in China so any Chinese video on YT about Uyghurs is basically a CCP shill lol

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## Shehr Abbasi

Itachi said:


> And I hate people even more who fall for random *** YT videos made by a Chinese when we all know YT is banned in China so any Chinese video on YT about Uyghurs is basically a CCP shill lol


Dude, his post about how hijab is a "new Arab thing from the 90s" made me cringe so much. Its not just ridiculous, its sad how they vehemently lie and deceive thru their teeth.

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## Itachi

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Dude, his post about how hijab is a "new Arab thing from the 90s" made me cringe so much. Its not just ridiculous, its sad how they vehemently lie and deceive thru their teeth.



Exactly, they know nothing about Islam. Everything they repeat here on PDF is from their rotten minds and propaganda.

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## beijingwalker

Shehr Abbasi said:


> I hate when these Chinese people think they have a right to speak on the obligations of our Deen.


Lol, feel free to hate


Shehr Abbasi said:


> Dude, his post about how hijab is a "new Arab thing from the 90s" made me cringe so much. Its not just ridiculous, its sad how they vehemently lie and deceive thru their teeth.


It's the truth, go to Kazakhstan and see how many wear hijabs, and why Kazakhstan tries to ban hijabs?


----------



## Place Of Space

beijingwalker said:


> Ok,I don't want to derail my own thread but what if I can?


Some muslim is only interested in spreading Islam. Their little dream is Islam conquering the world, muslim the master in every country. You can't cure their sickness.


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Shehr Abbasi said:


> I hate when these Chinese people think they have a right to speak on the obligations of our Deen.






Funny how you don't have an issue with the americans doing the same.


----------



## Shehr Abbasi

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Funny how you don't have an issue with the americans doing the same.


The difference is that I can pray Salat, recite the Quran, speak Urdu + Arabic, do Dawah in America without being arrested or killed.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> It's the truth, go to Kazakhstan and see how many wear hijabs, and why Kazakhstan tries to ban hijabs?



Because they're a bunch of evil mofos who'll rot in hell??

Also this:








Shehr Abbasi said:


> The difference is that I can pray Salat, recite the Quran, speak Urdu + Arabic, do Dawah in America without being arrested or killed.



Good reply lol!


Place Of Space said:


> Some muslim is only interested in spreading Islam. Their little dream is Islam conquering the world, muslim the master in every country. You can't cure their sickness.



And the Chinese think the same....

But that dream will only be a dream.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Because they're a bunch of evil mofos who'll rot in hell??
> 
> Also this:


You think Xinjiang is culturally, linguistically and ethnically closer to Kazakhstan or Afghanistan?


----------



## Place Of Space

Shehr Abbasi said:


> The difference is that I can pray Salat, recite the Quran, speak Urdu + Arabic, do Dawah in America without being arrested or killed.


Why you go to America speaking Urdu? Who the hell can understand your Urdu Arabic and Dawah in America?

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Funny how those spreading anti-Chinese propaganda here have NOTHING to say about and are fine with the americans killing millions of Muslims globally since August 1990................ ............the same so called "Muslims" who also believed in the american propaganda that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins..........

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## Shehr Abbasi

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Funny how those spreading anti-Chinese propaganda here have NOTHING to say about and are fine with the americans killing millions of Muslims globally since August 1990................ ............the same so called "Muslims" who also believed in the american propaganda that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins..........


I condemn war-hawk America and its actions in ME, you are just too deaf to hear that.

But actions of your beloved country China greatly outweighs all destruction inflicted by American wars.

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## pothead

What you don't see in these videos is Mr Xi aiming gun at their relatives....

At this point no one believes anything coming out of China,
not even the Chinese believes it.

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## Itachi

Place Of Space said:


> Why you go to America speaking Urdu? Who the hell can understand your Urdu Arabic and Dawah in America?



Fucking American that's who. And who the **** are you huh??

Random *** Chinese on a banned site trying to give us a lecture. We can do whatever we want to in America. We got rights, which you Chinese never will.  



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Funny how those spreading anti-Chinese propaganda here have NOTHING to say about and are fine with the americans killing millions of Muslims globally since August 1990................ ............the same so called "Muslims" who also believed in the american propaganda that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins..........



No one said that. Everyone condemns killing of Muslims by whoever they may be. You should stop projecting your opinions into reality. Not gonna work Chinese simp.

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## beijingwalker

Shehr Abbasi said:


> But actions of your beloved country China greatly outweighs all destruction inflicted by American wars.


Really, tell my another place where enjoys massive fast development and growth while experiencing " destruction", can you?


----------



## Shehr Abbasi

beijingwalker said:


> Really, tell my another place where enjoys massive fast development and growth while experiencing " destruction", can you?


I would rather be martyred than submit to apostates.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Really, tell my another place where enjoys massive fast development and growth while experiencing " destruction", can you?



You mean expensive real estate no one's gonna use?? And reeducation camps, forced sterilization and forced clothing removal and more??

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## beijingwalker

Shehr Abbasi said:


> I would rather be martyred than submit to apostates.


Good, go ahead.


----------



## Place Of Space

pothead said:


> What you don't see in these videos is Mr Xi aiming gun at their relatives....
> 
> At this point no one believes anything coming out of China,
> not even the Chinese believes it.


Dear, wish India becomes a best Muslim country. 😄😄😄


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Good, go ahead.



China will be the next Soviet Union if "terrorism" flares up in Xinjiang.  

You don't even know who you're messing with.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> You mean expensive real estate no one's gonna use?? And reeducation camps, forced sterilization and forced clothing removal and more??
> 
> View attachment 711901


XInjinang GDP per capita is $10,000, how about your place?


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Shehr Abbasi said:


> I condemn war-hawk America and its actions in ME, you are just too deaf to hear that.
> 
> But actions of your beloved country China greatly outweighs all destruction inflicted by American wars.





Sure you do..............


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> XInjinang GDP per capita is $10,000, how about your place?



More than 10x that. 


PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Sure you do..............



He just did...

You want him to come to your house and say that??

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Shehr Abbasi said:


> I would rather be martyred than submit to apostates.






Unless they are american.............


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> China will be the next Soviet Union if "terrorism" flares up in Xinjiang.
> 
> You don't even know who you're messing with.


Hahan, we know,that's why Xinjiang has zero terrorism for any years already, despite rampant terrorism attacks happening around Xinjiang's western neighborhood.


Itachi said:


> More than 10x that.


Where? near Xinjiang?


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> XInjinang GDP per capita



Another LIE.  















beijingwalker said:


> Where? near Xinjiang?



US.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Funny how the so called "Muslims" here who are condemning the Chinese for small things have NO issues with the Saudis killing 100,000s of innocent Muslim Yemenese civilians.......


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Another LIE.
> 
> View attachment 711902
> 
> 
> View attachment 711903
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US.


This year, around $10,000 , give and take. China's average this year went beyond $10,000


----------



## Shehr Abbasi

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Unless they are american.............


You have no idea about my choices, so please stop putting words in my mouth.

You have displayed utter disrespect for Islam by mocking our Shuhuda and the great deed of Shahadat. I am very upset in you brother.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> This year, around $10,000 , give and take. China's average this year went beyond $10,000



Source or it's another lie...


beijingwalker said:


> You think Xinjiang is culturally, linguistically and ethnically closer to Kazakhstan or Afghanistan?



Both. Neither are very different. You would know if you actually knew what you're talking about.

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## Shehr Abbasi

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Funny how the so called "Muslims" here who are condemning the Chinese for small things have NO issues with the Saudis killing 100,000s of innocent Muslim Yemenese civilians.......


Whataboutism in full effect. I never supported Saudis anyway.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Source or it's another lie...
> 
> 
> Both. Neither are very different. You would know if you actually knew what you're talking about.


Xinjiang's per capita is below China's average, but not much


59


China​10,83960


Malaysia​10,19261


Russia​9,97262


Bulgaria​9,82663


Grenada​9,82464


Saint Lucia​9,78065


Mauritius​8,95166


Nauru​8,86767


Kazakhstan​8,78268


Serbia​8,50669


Argentina​8,43370


Guyana​8,07371


Mexico​8,06972


Montenegro​7,93373


Turkey​7,71574


Dominica​7,70975


Turkmenistan​7,50776


Dominican Republic​7,44577


Thailand​7,29578


Iran​7,257


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang's per capita is below China's average, but not much
> 
> 
> 59
> 
> 
> China​10,83960
> 
> 
> Malaysia​10,19261
> 
> 
> Russia​9,97262
> 
> 
> Bulgaria​9,82663
> 
> 
> Grenada​9,82464
> 
> 
> Saint Lucia​9,78065
> 
> 
> Mauritius​8,95166
> 
> 
> Nauru​8,86767
> 
> 
> Kazakhstan​8,78268
> 
> 
> Serbia​8,50669
> 
> 
> Argentina​8,43370
> 
> 
> Guyana​8,07371
> 
> 
> Mexico​8,06972
> 
> 
> Montenegro​7,93373
> 
> 
> Turkey​7,71574
> 
> 
> Dominica​7,70975
> 
> 
> Turkmenistan​7,50776
> 
> 
> Dominican Republic​7,44577
> 
> 
> Thailand​7,29578
> 
> 
> Iran​7,257



And Chinese per capita is below the US.  

Who ya trying to fool here huh?

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> And Chinese per capita is below the US.


Of course, but Xinjiang is stil the most developed region in central and south Asia with world class infra second to none.


----------



## Place Of Space

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Whataboutism in full effect. I never supported Saudis anyway.


You support Saudis or not support don't make any differences. Saudis is master of Islam world.


----------



## Shehr Abbasi

Itachi said:


> Both. Neither are very different. You would know if you actually knew what you're talking about.


He admits Turkestan (not Xinjiang which is a manufactured Han/Mandarin name for the region) is ethnically and linguistically close to Afghanistan&Kazakhstan and not close to Han... Why does China even bother having such a dissimilar region & people to their own?

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Of course, but Xinjiang is stil the most developed region in central and south Asia with world class infra second to none.



You sure? lol

And what is all of that "developed" region gonna do for the normal people?? Are they going to live in the expensive places?? Nope...


Place Of Space said:


> You support Saudis or not support don't make any differences. Saudis is master of Islam world.



It's not LOL

You saying that proves you know zilch about Islam or the Islamic world. Lay off the keyboard kid.

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## Shehr Abbasi

Place Of Space said:


> You support Saudis or not support don't make any differences. Saudis is master of Islam world.


Nope. You don't have a clue about the Islamic world.

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## beijingwalker

Shehr Abbasi said:


> He admits Turkestan (not Xinjiang which is a manufactured Han/Mandarin name for the region) is ethnically and linguistically close to Afghanistan&Kazakhstan and not close to Han... Why does China even bother having such a dissimilar region & people to their own?


China has Thai people closer to Thailand, Mongolians closer to Mongolia, Koreans closer to Korea, Russians closer to Russia....that's the same case in many big countries. have you lost your common sense?


Itachi said:


> You sure? lol
> 
> And what is all of that "developed" region gonna do for the normal people?? Are they going to live in the expensive places?? Nope...


But you guys claim China brought destruction to Xinjiang, not development. but can you tell another place with this much development and growth while experiencing "destruction"?


----------



## Place Of Space

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Nope. You don't have a clue about the Islamic world.


You will cry a river if Saudis refuse your visa to visit Mekka.


----------



## Shehr Abbasi

beijingwalker said:


> China has Thai people closer to Thailand, Mongolians closer to Mongolia, Koreans closer to Korea, Russians closer to Russia....that's the same case in many big countries. have you lost your common sense?


Chinese, Mongols, Koreans aren't dissimilar races. You are no doubt _the same _to them.

On the other hand, Chinese/Han and Turkic/Uyghur people are two different sides of the spectrum.


Place Of Space said:


> You will cry a river if Saudis refuse your visa to visit Mekka.


I don't need a visa to go there buddy.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> But you guys claim China brought destruction to Xinjiang, not development. but can you tell another place with this much development and growth while experiencing "destruction"?



Kazakhstan has higher per capita than China. More than double of Xinjiang.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Kazakhstan has higher per capita than China. More than double of Xinjiang.


No, it doesn't.


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> No, it doesn't.



AHAHAHAHA

Go on......check it. 

I just popped your bubble.

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## beijingwalker

59



China​10,83960


Malaysia​10,19261


Russia​9,97262


Bulgaria​9,82663


Grenada​9,82464


Saint Lucia​9,78065


Mauritius​8,95166


Nauru​8,86767


Kazakhstan​8,782









List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Itachi

By your very own standards....Saudi Arabia is way better than China...let alone Xinjiang. 

Even Turkey too. 


beijingwalker said:


> 59
> 
> 
> China​10,83960
> 
> 
> Malaysia​10,19261
> 
> 
> Russia​9,97262
> 
> 
> Bulgaria​9,82663
> 
> 
> Grenada​9,82464
> 
> 
> Saint Lucia​9,78065
> 
> 
> Mauritius​8,95166
> 
> 
> Nauru​8,86767
> 
> 
> Kazakhstan​8,782
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



PPP > Nominal

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> View attachment 711905
> 
> 
> By your very own standards....Saudi Arabia is way better than China...let alone Xinjiang.
> 
> Even Turkey too.


That can be, some Arab countries are richest in the world because of oil, it's common sense, Turkey is not.


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> That can be, some Arab countries are richest in the world because of oil, it's common sense, Turkey is not.



Turkey has higher PPP. Accept it. Digest it. Swallow it.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> View attachment 711905
> 
> 
> By your very own standards....Saudi Arabia is way better than China...let alone Xinjiang.
> 
> Even Turkey too.
> 
> 
> PPP > Nominal
> 
> View attachment 711906


We follow nominal GDP, Not PPP, in China we never follow PPP cause it's hard to measure. PPP China is the world number one by a massive margin, but this is not true.


----------



## Shehr Abbasi

beijingwalker said:


> That can be, some Arab countries are richest in the world because of oil, it's common sense, Turkey is not.


So why are you bragging about developing Turkestan to SUPER HIGH GDPS? Saudis and Turkey can do a much better job.


beijingwalker said:


> We follow nominal GDP, Not PPP, in China we never follow PPP cause it's hard to measure. PPP China is the world number one by a massive margin, but this is not true.


Of course, you are a rogue nation. Is there something you dont follow?

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> We follow nominal GDP, Not PPP, in China we never follow PPP cause it's hard to measure. PPP China is the world number one by a massive margin, but this is not true.



Sure 

China is cheap but the pay is low too. Kazakhstan is cheaper and better pay. Turkey has way better wages. 

Everyone uses PPP since it's better.


----------



## beijingwalker

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Of course, you are a rogue nation. Is there something you dont follow?


A rogue nation? LOL, Don't forget the west also uses this term to talk about Pakistan, do you believe it?


----------



## Itachi

Shehr Abbasi said:


> So why are you bragging about developing Turkestan? Saudis can do a much better job.
> 
> Of course, you are a rogue nation. Is there something you dont follow?



Islam. 


But soon these weak Atheists will convert en masse.


beijingwalker said:


> A rogue nation? LOL, Don't forget the west also uses this term to talk about Pakistan, do you believe it?



No one ever said that...another lie!

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Sure
> 
> China is cheap but the pay is low too. Kazakhstan is cheaper and better pay. Turkey has way better wages.
> 
> Everyone uses PPP since it's better.


Everyone is using PPP? do you believe China nwo is the runway world top economy by a huge margin leaving US in dust?


----------



## Shehr Abbasi

beijingwalker said:


> A rogue nation? LOL, Don't forget the west also uses this term to talk about Pakistan, do you believe it?


Pakistan is a respected country by at least 70% of the world. China isn't.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> No one ever said that...another lie!


US did call Pakistan a terrorist country, they lied of course. don't pretend you don't know. they put you on watching gey list.


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Everyone is using PPP? do you believe China nwo is the runway world top economy by a huge margin leaving US in dust?



When you leave the US in dust...then talk. You have yet to reach our PPP OR Nominal numbers. 



beijingwalker said:


> US did call Pakistan a terrorist country, they lied of course. don't pretend you don't know.



So? Some inside the US said that. The US never officially said that. Two different things.

Many Pakistani say similar things about the US. Doesn't mean it's a official thing.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> When you leave the US in dust...then talk. You have yet to reach out PPP OR Nominal numbers.


So it's not true. US is still number one by nomial GDP. In PPP China is a runaway world leader, but it's not true.


----------



## Place Of Space

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Chinese, Mongols, Koreans aren't dissimilar races. You are no doubt _the same _to them.
> 
> On the other hand, Chinese/Han and Turkic/Uyghur people are two different sides of the spectrum.
> 
> I don't need a visa to go there buddy.


You didn't get the point. Saudis control Mekka. You dare to Shtt on Saudis issues. they will ban you visit Mekka. Your Saudis master decide.


----------



## beijingwalker

This PPP doesn't really show the facts.
�

RankCountry/TerritoryGDP
(millions of current Int$)_World_130,186,703[8]1




China24,162,4352



United States20,807,269—_



European Union_[n 2][10]19,397,2673



India8,681,303—_



ASEAN_[n 3][11]8,487,7014



Japan5,236,1385



Germany4,454,4986



Russia4,021,733


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Whataboutism in full effect. I never supported Saudis anyway.







I haven't. You are making things up as usual........... 


Shehr Abbasi said:


> Whataboutism in full effect. I never supported Saudis anyway.





Neither do you condemn them. You are simply obsessed with anti-Chinese propaganda.


----------



## Shehr Abbasi

beijingwalker said:


> So it's not true. US is still number one by nomial GDP. In PPP China is a runaway world leader, but it's not true.


China's whole GDP PPP whatever the hell you call it is made from garbage and filthy products. People around the world have loathe for your products. This is the truth.



Place Of Space said:


> You didn't get the point. Saudis control Mekka. You dare to Shtt on Saudis issues. they will ban you visit Mekka. Your Saudis master decide.


Nope. They aren't Communist China. They could care less what I say about their country.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> So it's not true. US is still number one by nomial GDP. In PPP China is a runaway world leader, but it's not true.



The US has higher PPP and Nominal because of way better wages. Check it out.



beijingwalker said:


> This PPP doesn't really show the facts.
> �
> 
> RankCountry/TerritoryGDP
> (millions of current Int$)_World_130,186,703[8]1
> 
> 
> 
> China24,162,4352
> 
> 
> 
> United States20,807,269—_
> 
> 
> 
> European Union_[n 2][10]19,397,2673
> 
> 
> 
> India8,681,303—_
> 
> 
> 
> ASEAN_[n 3][11]8,487,7014
> 
> 
> 
> Japan5,236,1385
> 
> 
> 
> Germany4,454,4986
> 
> 
> 
> Russia4,021,733








GDP per capita is what matters.

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## Shehr Abbasi

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> I haven't. You are making things up as usual...........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither do you condemn them. You are simply obsessed with anti-Chinese propaganda.


I will never forget how you disrespected the act of Shahadat.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> So? Some inside the US said that. The US never officially said that. Two different things.
> 
> Many Pakistani say similar things about the US. Doesn't mean it's a official thing.


Which country officially says China is a rogue country?


----------



## Itachi

Place Of Space said:


> You didn't get the point. Saudis control Mekka. You dare to Shtt on Saudis issues. they will ban you visit Mekka. Your Saudis master decide.



Iran or Pakistan or literally anyone else can roll over Saudi Arabia and take control of the Holy Cities. 

Those 2 cities belong to all Muslims, not just the Saudis. 

Don't talk when adults are talking kid. You know nothing about Islam, Muslims or the Islamic world.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> The US has higher PPP and Nominal because of way better wages. Check it out.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 711910
> 
> 
> GDP per capita is what matters.


Do you believe China is much bigger economy than US just because China's PPP is much bigger?


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Which country officially says China is a rogue country?



I never said that.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Pakistan is a respected country by at least 70% of the world. China isn't.





China is ONLY hated by those who have killed millions of Muslims and other non-Whites all around the world for many centuries.


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Do you believe China is much bigger economy than US just because China's PPP is much bigger?



Yea, so??

I don't care if China has 10x bigger economy than the US lol

As long as the living standards are better, the Chinese will continue moving out of China.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> I never said that.


Ok, good.


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

beijingwalker said:


> Do you believe China is much bigger economy than US just because China's PPP is much bigger?





Ignore them. These are anti-Pakistani trolls who are pro-indian and IN FACT also anti-Muslim and anti-Chinese too.


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Yea, so??
> 
> I don't care if China has 10x bigger economy than the US lol
> 
> As long as the living standards are better, the Chinese will continue moving out of China.


Ok, We care about beating US in economy, but we also admit US still has a bigger economy at least by now, PPP doesn't make much sense to say China leads US by a big margin.


----------



## Itachi

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> China is ONLY hated by those who have killed millions of Muslims and other non-Whites all around the world for many centuries.



China is hated worldwide....by Muslims and non-Muslims. So is the US. All great powers are.

But no one on here acts like a US simp like you act like a Chinese simp. Do you see even one Chinese on here simping for Pakistan?? Nope!

You utterly disgust me and others. Have some self respect kid.


PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Ignore them. These are anti-Pakistani trolls who are pro-indian and IN FACT also anti-Muslim and anti-Chinese too.



We're not pro-Indian you dumbo.

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## Shehr Abbasi

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> China is ONLY hated by those who have killed millions of Muslims and other non-Whites all around the world for many centuries.


Dude you have no credibility, just sit down.

You literally repeating what you're saying. 


PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Ignore them. These are anti-Pakistani trolls who are pro-indian and IN FACT also anti-Muslim and anti-Chinese too.


You are biggest anti-Muslim guy on this forum. I never met a self-claimed "Pakistani" or "Muslim" who would rather live under the sword of the mushrik than obtain Shahadat.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Shehr Abbasi said:


> I will never forget how you disrespected the act of Shahadat.







Instead you forgot about the millions of Muslims murdered by the americans and instead started worshipping the american kuffar................


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> China is hated worldwide....by Muslims and non-Muslims. So is the US. All great powers are.


Who told you that?


----------



## Place Of Space

Shehr Abbasi said:


> China's whole GDP PPP whatever the hell you call it is made from garbage and filthy products. People around the world have loathe for your products. This is the truth.
> 
> 
> Nope. They aren't Communist China. They could care less what I say about their country.


You could try. You have no rights of saying no to your master.


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Dude you have no credibility, just sit down.
> 
> You literally repeating what you're saying.
> 
> You are biggest anti-Muslim guy on this forum. I never met a self-claimed "Pakistani" or "Muslim" who would rather live under the sword of the mushrik than obtain Shahadat.






Instead you love living under the american mushrik who have murdered millions of Muslims worldwide...........


----------



## beijingwalker

*Arab Barometer: 52% of Moroccans Favor China Over US, MENA countries favor China over US*
In six countries in the MENA region, fewer than a third of respondents have a “favorable” view of the US, compared significantly higher figures to China.

By Safaa Kasraoui
-Jan 15, 2021

Rabat – A new survey from Arab Barometer shows that 52% of Moroccans view China more favorably than they do the US.


The new data, which studies the US and China’s competition in the MENA, shows that only 28% of Moroccans favor the US over China.

The poll shows that fewer than a third of respondents have a favorable view of the US in the six countries in the MENA region.

In Algeria, 60% view China more favorably than the US (24%). In Tunisia, 50% of people show favorable views of China against 21% for the US.

The data shows that 34% of Libyans view China more favorably than the US (14%).

In the Middle East, 35% of Jordanians think better of China than the US (15%). The Arab Barometer study on US-China competition in the region shows that 43% people in Lebanon prefer China against 25% who prefer the US.

The Arab Barometer study explains the data, saying that the survey results “make clear that Arab publics prefer China.”

“By comparison fewer than a third have a favorable view of the US in all six countries, ranging from a high of 28 percent in Morocco to a low 14 prrcent in Libya,” the study finds.

The Arab Barometer study said that China’s focus on more socio-economic issues influences people’s opinion.

The study also said the US is more focused on politics, while China is more involved in economic related challenges.

It also revealed how people in the Arab world do not see China’s economy as a critical threat despite its leadership in the field.

Lebanese, however, are the most likely to consider China’s competition a threat, with 26%, followed by Tunisians (21%).

“Only in Morocco are citizens roughly equally concerned about the threat of Chinese vs. American economic power,” the study shows.

Arab Barometer found that 18% of Moroccans believe that the US’ economic power is a critical threat against 15% for China.

The study shows that 31% of Algerians consider the US’ economic power as a greater threat than that of China (13%). In Tunisia, 43% people believe the US’ economic power is a threat against 21% for China.

In the same region, citizens expressed positive views of the US foreign assistance.

Around 41% of Moroccans feel US foreign aid strengthens civil society, while 50% in Lebanon feel the same. Tunsians also have positive views towards US foreign assistance (46%), followed by Jordanians (40%), Algerians (35%), and Libyans (27%).








Arab Barometer: 52% of Moroccans Favor China Over US


Rabat - A new survey from Arab Barometer shows that 52% of Moroccans view China more favorably than




www.moroccoworldnews.com

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Who told you that?



I know it. I don't need to be told such a simple thing.

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## beijingwalker

when asked if the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) was forced to align itself with either the US or China, a majority in seven of the 10 ASEAN member countries chose China. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1217813126269173760


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> *Arab Barometer: 52% of Moroccans Favor China Over US, MENA countries favor China over US*
> In six countries in the MENA region, fewer than a third of respondents have a “favorable” view of the US, compared significantly higher figures to China.
> 
> By Safaa Kasraoui
> -Jan 15, 2021
> 
> Rabat – A new survey from Arab Barometer shows that 52% of Moroccans view China more favorably than they do the US.
> 
> 
> The new data, which studies the US and China’s competition in the MENA, shows that only 28% of Moroccans favor the US over China.
> 
> The poll shows that fewer than a third of respondents have a favorable view of the US in the six countries in the MENA region.
> 
> In Algeria, 60% view China more favorably than the US (24%). In Tunisia, 50% of people show favorable views of China against 21% for the US.
> 
> The data shows that 34% of Libyans view China more favorably than the US (14%).
> 
> In the Middle East, 35% of Jordanians think better of China than the US (15%). The Arab Barometer study on US-China competition in the region shows that 43% people in Lebanon prefer China against 25% who prefer the US.
> 
> The Arab Barometer study explains the data, saying that the survey results “make clear that Arab publics prefer China.”
> 
> “By comparison fewer than a third have a favorable view of the US in all six countries, ranging from a high of 28 percent in Morocco to a low 14 prrcent in Libya,” the study finds.
> 
> The Arab Barometer study said that China’s focus on more socio-economic issues influences people’s opinion.
> 
> The study also said the US is more focused on politics, while China is more involved in economic related challenges.
> 
> It also revealed how people in the Arab world do not see China’s economy as a critical threat despite its leadership in the field.
> 
> Lebanese, however, are the most likely to consider China’s competition a threat, with 26%, followed by Tunisians (21%).
> 
> “Only in Morocco are citizens roughly equally concerned about the threat of Chinese vs. American economic power,” the study shows.
> 
> Arab Barometer found that 18% of Moroccans believe that the US’ economic power is a critical threat against 15% for China.
> 
> The study shows that 31% of Algerians consider the US’ economic power as a greater threat than that of China (13%). In Tunisia, 43% people believe the US’ economic power is a threat against 21% for China.
> 
> In the same region, citizens expressed positive views of the US foreign assistance.
> 
> Around 41% of Moroccans feel US foreign aid strengthens civil society, while 50% in Lebanon feel the same. Tunsians also have positive views towards US foreign assistance (46%), followed by Jordanians (40%), Algerians (35%), and Libyans (27%).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Barometer: 52% of Moroccans Favor China Over US
> 
> 
> Rabat - A new survey from Arab Barometer shows that 52% of Moroccans view China more favorably than
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.moroccoworldnews.com



The other 48% really don't like China......and the 52% only favor it over the US. On it's own....almost every Muslim nation dislikes China because of what they did to the Uyghurs.

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## terry5

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> China is ONLY hated by those who have killed millions of Muslims and other non-Whites all around the world for many centuries.




yourself . 
hypocrisy is astounded . You funded the killing of innocents of Muslims in your western botched wars .
You pay land tax ? Or any tax ??

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> I know it. I don't need to be told such a simple thing.


You know nothing indeed.


----------



## Place Of Space

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Dude you have no credibility, just sit down.
> 
> You literally repeating what you're saying.
> 
> You are biggest anti-Muslim guy on this forum. I never met a self-claimed "Pakistani" or "Muslim" who would rather live under the sword of the mushrik than obtain Shahadat.


You are the worst guy make Islam impressed badly. Hold your Quran, pray for the world peace, your Allah doesn't ask you to make troubles.


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> You know nothing indeed.



I know enough, certainly more than you.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> The other 48% really don't like China......and the 52% only favor it over the US. On it's own....almost every Muslim nation dislikes China because of what they did to the Uyghurs.


As long as over half like China and they favor China over US, it's good enough.


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> As long as over half like China and they favor China over US, it's good enough.



I don't care. Since no other Muslim country matters, other than Iran or Turkey.

All these Arabs will see their downfall soon. It's been predicted already in Islam.  

Their opinions are worthless, just like their oil and wealth.

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## GiantPanda

PPP counts for internal consumption and is probably more accurate in a lot of things.

China buys far more cars, ships, computers than US and consumes half the world's steel and cement. There is really no way China's real economy is not much bigger than the US already. By PPP, China has been bigger than the US for quite some time now.



Nominal has it uses in trade but only because right now trade is denominated in dollars.
The US is always linking Pakistan to terrorism just like they try to link China to Uighur oppression:








Pakistan 'disappointed' with US terrorism report


Foreign Ministry says Washington fails to fully acknowledge Islamabad's role in Afghan peace process - Anadolu Agency




www.aa.com.tr





I find it unbelievable that Pakistanis would fall for white people's lies when Westerners had been killing muslims from Iraq to Afghanistan and the US under Pompeo had placed travel bans from muslim nations. But there could be a lot of false flags in the forum.
View attachment 711914


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> I don't care. Since no other Muslim country matters, other than Iran or Turkey.


Iran and Turkey are also with China.


----------



## Shehr Abbasi

GiantPanda said:


> PPP counts for internal consumption and is probably more accurate in a lot of things.
> 
> China buys far more cars, ships, computers than US and consumes half the world's steel and cement. There is really no way China's real economy is not much bigger than the US already. By PPP, China has been bigger than the US for quite some time now.
> 
> Nominal has it uses in trade but only because right now trade is denominated in dollars.
> The US is always linking Pakistan to terrorism just like they try to link China to Uighur oppression:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan 'disappointed' with US terrorism report
> 
> 
> Foreign Ministry says Washington fails to fully acknowledge Islamabad's role in Afghan peace process - Anadolu Agency
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aa.com.tr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find it unbelievable that Pakistanis would fall for white people's lies when Westerners had been killing muslims from Iraq to Afghanistan and the US under Pompeo had placed travel bans from muslim nations. But there could be a lot of false flags in the forum.


Get over it.


beijingwalker said:


> Iran and Turkey are also with China.


Nice joke.

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## beijingwalker

*Iran condemns US’ meddling in China’s affairs*
6 December 2019 - 13:10






TEHRAN, Dec. 06 (MNA) – Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Seyyed Abbas Mousavi slammed a recent bill adopted in the US House of Representatives against China.

“With a disgraceful record in genocide of indigenous people, black slavery and massacres of civilians, as well as the killing of Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Palestine and Yemen, and the pardoning of war criminals, America is the least qualified to comment on ethnicity, races and Muslims,” Mousavi said on Friday.

The remark came as the US House of Representatives approved a bill that requires President Trump to toughen response to Xinjiang, where Washington claims China is holding re-education camps for Muslims.

“Repeating such blatant violations against the principles of the international law is just stressing the fact that interfering in internal affairs of other countries has become a tenet of America’s anti-normative foreign policy,” added Mousavi.

Condemning the recent measure taken by the US Congress against China, Mousavi warned the international community against threats of such behaviors that endanger global peace and stability.

The spokesman also called on independent countries to react to uncontrolled US behavior and unilateralism.

https://en.mehrnews.com/news/153081/Iran-condemns-US-meddling-in-China-s-affair

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Iran and Turkey are also with China.



For now. 


They're also with Pakistan and are closer to Pakistan culturally, through religion and linguistically. They side with China out of pressure. But they're never gonna defend China militarily. No one ever will.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Go listen to some Bayan and learn Islam, rather than kissing the feet & worshipping of Mushrik Commie China in your pitiful life.
> 
> China's war on Muslims is much MORE inhumane and unethical than America's. I have already condemned warhawk America, but like I said you were too deaf to hear me the first time. You have not condemned Commie China because you feetworship them.








So are you SERIOUSLY claiming that China has killed MORE Muslims than the Americans have????????????..........WTF!!!!!!!!!!.............        ..............

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## Place Of Space

Shehr Abbasi said:


> China's war on Muslims is much MORE inhumane and unethical than America's.


WOW, start to wash white for American anti-muslim wars. You betray your Allah and embrace Christian. 😄😄😄
How about China dropping some bombs in Islam countries?

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> For now.
> 
> 
> They're also with Pakistan and are closer to Pakistan culturally, through religion and linguistically. They side with China out of pressure. But they're never gonna defend China militarily. No one ever will.


China doesn't need other countries to defend us militarily, we can manage it by ourselves.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

@waz @The Eagle @Irfan Baloch @krash @WebMaster 


The usual anti-Pakistani, anti-Chinese false flaggers are spreading anti-Chinese propaganda. Please go through this thread to see this.

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## Itachi

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> @waz @The Eagle @Irfan Baloch @krash @WebMaster
> 
> 
> The usual anti-Pakistani, anti-Chinese false flaggers are spreading anti-Chinese propaganda. Please go through this thread to see this.



Kid running to the mods now that he can't say anything else.  



beijingwalker said:


> China doesn't need other countries to defend us militarily, we can manage it by ourself.



Good Luck, you'll need it.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Place Of Space said:


> WOW, start to wash white for American anti-muslim wars. You betray your Allah and embrace Christian. 😄😄😄
> How about China dropping some bombs in Islam countries?






Ignore them. These are indian false flaggers spreading anti-Chinese propaganda.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Itachi said:


> Kid running to the mods now that he can't say anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> Good Luck, you'll need it.







So, what part of Pakistan are you from? indian so called "Muslim"............

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## terry5

Itachi said:


> Really??
> 
> View attachment 711867
> 
> 
> View attachment 711868
> 
> 
> ^CCP officials cutting women clothing since....."extremism"...
> 
> View attachment 711869
> 
> 
> View attachment 711870
> 
> 
> View attachment 711871
> 
> 
> And I can post more.



Terrible . They want to turn Muslims into gogo dance girls .

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Maybe they have. After all they hide everything. Good luck finding out.
> 
> But, the point is you are too dense to understand that the abuses, human rights violations of Commie China are MUCH greater and unethical than simplify receiving death at hands of a missile... This is Shahadat, dying as a True Believer... There is Paradise for these Muslimeen. Laugh all you want at Shahadat.
> 
> Of course, what do you know? You support Mushrik for world desires. Shameful.








@waz @The Eagle @Irfan Baloch @WebMaster 


This false flagging troll is now claiming that China has killed more Muslims than america!!!!!..........

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## beijingwalker

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Maybe they have. After all they hide everything. Good luck finding out.
> 
> But, the point is you are too dense to understand that the abuses, human rights violations of Commie China are MUCH greater and unethical than simplify receiving death at hands of a missile... This is Shahadat, dying as a True Believer... There is Paradise for these Muslimeen. Laugh all you want at Shahadat.
> 
> Of course, what do you know? You support Mushrik for world desires. Shameful.


You smear and slandering won't stop us building Xinjiang into one of the most peaceful, prosperous and beautiful places in the world. Xinjiang now is building so much infrastructures, it'll be the top tourist destination in the world very soon.

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## Place Of Space

Shehr Abbasi said:


> Of-course, typical Commie Marxist response. Resentment for all religions. Shameful.


Guy moving to America really changed. America is first in your mind, spread American propagandas, even wash for American anti-muslim wars. You forget you are Muslim.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Itachi said:


> None of your business. Apnay Mastar ka lun chuso ja kar.







You are probably as much a Pakistani as I am an Israeli...............  .............Nice try indian false flagger!............

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## Place Of Space

Shehr Abbasi said:


> I said:
> 
> Don't be like al-Kazzab.


Your seem to be very scared when he tags mods. Have not finished your agenda yet?


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Itachi said:


> O ja kisi ki lun chus madarchood. Agaya bara simp. Teri aisay ki tesi kardoon ga main. Hath meray rastay say.
> 
> Was that good enough, China simp?






That's all good, but WHAT part of Pakistan are you from?............

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## Place Of Space

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Ignore them. These are indian false flaggers spreading anti-Chinese propaganda.


Really? I thought he's an extreme Muslim. Seems India is helpless if they don't use Islam to anti China. Indians lack courages to face up Chinese directly.

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## The Eagle

Use of such kind of language against anyone & continuous provocation in the name of religion or on the cost of Forum; the offenders are hereby _*openly warned*_ that you will be losing your account in case of repetition. I will make sure that such filth is kept out in greater good.

Regards,

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## The Eagle

This is the thread topic which is self explanatory. Creating multiple threads will be treated as a violation following action accordingly. Members are advised to follow the rules in this regard instead of creating new threads every now & then.

*ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.*


----------



## xeuss

Millions of Leaked Police Files Detail Suffocating Surveillance of China’s Uyghur Minority


Invasive digital monitoring and community informants drive a system all too ready to classify Muslims in Ürümqi as extremists and terrorists.




theintercept.com







Yael Grauer
January 29 2021, 2:00 a.m.

THE ORDER CAME through a police automation system in Ürümqi, the largest city in China’s northwest Xinjiang region. The system had distributed a report — an “intelligence information judgment,” as local authorities called it — that the female relative of a purported extremist had been offered free travel to Yunnan, a picturesque province to the south.
The woman found the offer on the smartphone messaging app WeChat, in a group known simply as “Travelers.” Authorities homed in on the group because of ethnic and family ties; its members included Muslim minorities like Uyghurs, Kazakhs, and Kyrgyz, who speak languages beside China’s predominant one, Mandarin. “This group has over 200 ethnic-language people,” the order stated. “Many of them are relatives of incarcerated people. Recently, many intelligence reports revealed that there is a tendency for relatives of [extremist] people to gather. This situation needs major attention. After receiving this information, please investigate immediately. Find out the background of the people who organize ‘free travel,’ their motivation, and the inner details of their activities.”
Police in Ürümqi’s Xiheba Precinct, near the historic city center, received the order and summarized their work in a 2018 report. The one person rounded up as a result of the order, a Uyghur, had no previous criminal record, had never heard of the WeChat group, and never even traveled within China as a tourist. He “has good behavior and we do not have any suspicion,” police wrote. Still, his phone was confiscated and sent to a police “internet safety unit,” and the community was to “control and monitor” him, meaning the government would assign a trusted cadre member to regularly visit and watch over his household. A record about him was entered into the police automation system.
Based on their notes, police appear to have investigated the man and assigned the cadre members to “control and monitor” him entirely because of religious activities, which took place five months earlier, of his eldest sister. She and her husband invited another Uyghur couple in Ürümqi to join a religious discussion group on the messaging app Tencent QQ, according to police records. The other couple bought a laptop and logged onto the group every day from 7 a.m. to 11:30 p.m.; the husband stopped smoking and drinking, and the wife began wearing longer clothes. They began listening to “religious extremism information” on their laptop, the report said. Between the two couples, police recovered 168 religious audio files deemed illegal, likely because they were connected to an Islamic movement, Tablighi Jamaat, that advocates practicing Islam as it was practiced when the Prophet Muhammad was alive.
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The fate of the eldest sister and her husband is unknown; the report simply states they were transferred to a different police bureau. The other couple was sent to a re-education camp.
Details of the investigations are contained in a massive police database obtained by The Intercept: the product of a reporting tool developed by private defense company Landasoft and used by the Chinese government to facilitate police surveillance of citizens in Xinjiang.
The database, centered on Ürümqi, includes policing reports that confirm and provide additional detail about many elements of the persecution and large-scale internment of Muslims in the area. It sheds further light on a campaign of repression that has reportedly seen cameras installed in the homes of private citizens, the creation of mass detention camps, children forcibly separated from their families and placed in preschools with electric fences, the systematic destruction of Uyghur cemeteries, and a systematic campaign to suppress Uyghur births through forced abortion, sterilization, and birth control.





The database obtained by The Intercept contains police reports from Ürümqi, the capital and largest city in China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.

Map: Soohee Cho/The Intercept
It offers an inside view into police intelligence files and auxiliary community police meetings, as well as the operation of checkpoints that are pervasive in Ürümqi. It also details phone, online, and financial surveillance of marginalized groups, showing how granular surveillance purportedly on the watch for extremism is often simply looking at religious activity. Additionally, the database spells out how Chinese authorities are analyzing and refining the information they collect, including trying to weed out “filler” intelligence tips submitted by police and citizens to inflate their numbers and using automated policing software to help prompt investigations like the one into the WeChat travel group.
Among the revelations from the database is information on the extensive use of a tool that plugs into phones to download their contents, the “anti-terrorism sword,” deployed so frequently that Chinese authorities worried it was alienating the populace. It shows authorities tracking how their policies succeeded in driving down mosque attendance. It also offers evidence that the “Physicals for All” biometric collection program, which authorities insisted was solely a health initiative, is intended as part of the policing system. And it quantifies and provides details on the extensive electronic monitoring that goes on in Xinjiang, containing millions of text messages, phone call records, and contact lists alongside banking records, phone hardware and subscriber data, and references to WeChat monitoring as well as e-commerce and banking records.
The database also sheds light on the extent of policing and detention in Xinjiang. It details how former residents who went abroad and applied for political asylum were flagged as terrorists. In some cases, it appears as though fixed-term sentences were assigned to people in re-education detention — undercutting the idea, promulgated by the government, that the lengths of such detentions are contingent on rehabilitation or vocational training.




Surveillance cameras are mounted to the exterior of a mosque in the main bazaar in Ürümqi, Xinjiang, on Nov. 6, 2018.

Photo: Bloomberg via Getty Images
The Ürümqi Police Database Reveals:

How Chinese authorities collect millions of text messages, phone contacts, and call records, as well as e-commerce and banking records, from Muslim minorities in Xinjiang.
Invasive surveillance techniques watch for signs of religious enthusiasm, which are generally equated with extremism.
Evidence that biometric data collected under the “Physicals for All” health program feeds into the police surveillance system.
Police use community informants to collect massive amounts of information on Uyghurs in Ürümqi.
Applying for asylum abroad can result in being classified as a terrorist, as part of an initiative to prevent the “backflow” of foreign ideas.
Taken together, the materials provide a broad overview of how the extensive surveillance systems deployed in Xinjiang fit together to repress minority populations and how extensively they impact day-to-day life in the region.
“Overall, this testifies to an incredible police state, one that is quite likely to place suspicions on people who have not really done anything wrong,” said Adrian Zenz, an anthropologist and researcher who focuses on Xinjiang and Tibet.
The investigations stemming from the WeChat travelers group offer a concrete example of this intense policing, said Maya Wang, China senior researcher at Human Rights Watch. “You can see the muddled thinking in here, where people are being jailed for nothing, but also the process is so arbitrary.”
The revelations underscore how Xinjiang is an early look at the ways recent technology, like smartphones, cheap digital camera systems, and mass online storage of data, can be combined to monitor and repress large groups of people when civil liberties concerns are pushed aside.
“The mass surveillance in Xinjiang is a cautionary tale for all of us,” said Wang. “Xinjiang really shows how privacy is a gateway right, where if you have no privacy, that’s where you see that you have no freedoms as a human being at all. You don’t have the right to practice your religion, you don’t have the right to be who you are, you don’t even have the right to think your own thoughts because your thoughts are being parsed out by these incessant visits and incessantly monitored by surveillance systems, whether they’re human or artificial, and evaluated constantly for your level of loyalty to the government.”
Landasoft and China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs did not respond to requests for comment.
*CENTRAL STORAGE FOR THE PUBLIC SECURITY BUREAU IN ÜRÜMQI*
The database obtained by The Intercept appears to be maintained and used by the Ürümqi City Public Security Bureau and the broader Xinjiang Public Security Bureau. It also contains documents from units of the national Internet Safety and Protection Bureau.
Landasoft has branded the software that appears to be behind the database as “iTap,” a big data system it markets publicly.
The database spans 52 gigabytes and contains close to 250 million rows of data. It is fed by and provides data back to various apps, roughly a dozen of which appear linked to the database. These include:

Jingwang Weishi, an app for monitoring files on a mobile phone, which police in China have reportedly forced Uyghurs to download.
Baixing Anquan, which roughly translates to “people’s safety app” or “public safety app” and appears to be used by both citizens and police, including to enable citizens to snitch on one another to the authorities.
Quzheng Shuju Guanli, or “Evidence Collection Management,” which collects “evidence” from apps like WeChat and Outlook.
ZhiPu, a graphic interface of people’s relationships and the extent to which authorities are interested in them (the database contains only sparse information on ZhiPu).

The database contains evidence of extensive monitoring by Chinese authorities. In some cases, like SMS text messages, it contains actual communication captured by authorities. In others, like WeChat, there are fields, reporting code, or references to monitoring in police files.
One of the database’s major components is an extensive collection of minutes from “community stability” meetings, in which de facto police auxiliaries, or citizen-staffed neighborhood police, discuss what took place the week prior across their area. The database also contains various associated documents outlining policing and intelligence priorities and summaries of intelligence collected, local facilities checked, families of detainees visited, and updates on people of interest in the community. There are also weekly intelligence and detention reports, which include information on investigations of tips and on suspicious people.



Left: A police-issued smartphone. Right: Login screen for one of the apps on the smartphone, Public Safety App. Screenshots: Obtained by The Intercept

1Public Safety App. Used to submit intelligence reports or tips, among other things.
2People Inspection App. Used for facial recognition.
3An app linking to a police automation system, the Integrated Joint Operations Platform, or IJOP.
4Registration screen for the Public Safety App
5Password
6Login button
The database provides information on numerous other tools used to analyze the digital surveillance it contains. For example, documents in the database reference a Chinese government system called the Integrated Joint Operations Platform. IJOP, which has been the subject of extensive interest and discussion by human rights groups, gathers together surveillance about the residents of Xinjiang, stores it centrally, and uses it to make automated policing decisions referred to in the database as “pushes,” or push notifications. IJOP was the platform police said issued the order to investigate the WeChat free travel group.
Other documents give information on the use of the label “three-category people,” who are deemed terrorists or extremists, with three varying degrees of severity.
The database itself repeatedly uses a marker to query for Uyghur people, “iXvWZREN,” which groups them with terrorists and ex-convicts. There is no marker for Han Chinese, the majority ethnic group in China.




A computer monitor shows many faces at an inspection point in Kashgar, Xinjiang, on June 28, 2018.

Photo: Yomiuri Shimbun via AP
*FROM CHECKPOINTS TO CHAT MONITORING: SURVEILLANCE IN ÜRÜMQI*
The surveillance in Xinjiang was known to be extensive, creating one of the most watched regions in the world. What the database reveals is how this spying machine is used: what surveillance looks like on the ground (unrelenting) and what specific ends it is intended to serve (often to curb any unsanctioned influence, from the practice of Islam to ideas from foreign countries). People are watched up close and at a distance, with some information directly sucked out of their digital devices, other data collected from taps and sensors, and still more from relatives and informants in the community. The campaign against Uyghurs and their practice of Islam is laid out in stark and aggressive terms in police documents, and paranoia about outside or otherwise malign influence of many sorts manifest repeatedly.
Some of the most invasive data in the database comes from “anti-terrorism sword” phone inspection tools. Police at checkpoints, which pervade the city, make people plug their phones into these devices, which come from various manufacturers. They gather personal data from phones, including contacts and text messages, and also check pictures, videos, audio files, and documents against a list of prohibited items. They can display WeChat and SMS text messages. The data extracted is then integrated into IJOP.
A 2018 report from a neighborhood just northeast of the center of Ürümqi mentions authorities conducting searches on 1,860 people with an anti-terrorism sword in just one week in March. In the same report, detailing a single week in April, 2,057 people in the area had their phones checked. Around 30,000 people live in the area, the Qidaowan neighorhood, according to government statistics.



> People are watched up close and at a distance, with some information directly sucked out of their digital devices, other data collected from taps and sensors, and still more from relatives and informants in the community.


This pattern of frequent police stops is seen in other parts of Ürümqi. Documents discuss police checking people’s phones upwards of three or four times in one night, and how this makes it difficult to stay on the good side of the populace, which is clearly becoming annoyed.
For example, an August 2017 police report said that “due to overly frequent phone inspections conducted by certain checkpoints, which caused some people to be inspected over 3 times, people complain about this work.” An October 2017 “social opinion intelligence report” stated that “some people reflected that the current checkpoint is too overpowered. Often they would be checked 3 times during one night. It wastes their time when they are in an emergency.”
The documents discuss people who switched to older phones to prevent the inconvenience of these phone checks.
Rune Steenberg, an anthropologist in Denmark focusing on Xinjiang and Uyghurs, who spent time in Kashgar as a researcher as late as 2016, said he switched to using a simple phone rather than a smartphone in 2014 and that many Uyghurs did the same. “It’s not just about them discovering stuff on your phone,” he said. “They can place stuff on your phone in order to incriminate you. And there’s no way you can afterwards prove that that was placed on your phone and it wasn’t from you. So it became really dangerous, actually, to have a smartphone.”
And, Steenberg said, police would often scam people into giving up their smartphones, falsely stating the phone had religious content and asking people if it was theirs, knowing they would disown the device. “They would be like, ‘No, that’s not my phone, no, I didn’t bring my phone here,’” said Steenberg. Then, he said, the police would hold onto the phones and sell them afterward.




Residents pass by a security checkpoint and surveillance cameras mounted on a street in Kashgar, Xinjiang, on Nov. 5, 2017.

Photo: Ng Han Guan/AP
The database also helps quantify how broadly phone surveillance was deployed around Ürümqi. For example, in the space of one year and 11 months, Chinese authorities collected close to 11 million SMS messages. In one year and 10 months, they gathered 11.8 million records on phone call duration and parties involved in the call. And in a one-year, 11-month period, they gathered seven million contacts and around 255,000 records on phone hardware, including the IMSI number that identifies phones on cellular networks; phone model and manufacturer; a computer network identifier known as a MAC address; and another cellular network identifier, the IMEI number.
Phone call information that is tracked in the database includes people on the calls, name of the recipient, and the start and stop times of each conversation. Fields in the database indicate that online dating information, e-commerce purchases, and email contacts may also be extracted from phones.
“You cannot feel safe anywhere because of your cellphone,” said Abduweli Ayup, a linguist and poet who lived in Kashgar, Xinjiang. “You have to turn your cellphone on 24 hours, and you have to answer the phone at any time if police call you.” He said that with chat apps also monitored, Uyghurs can never experience privacy, even at home.




The database contains phone surveillance records, helping to quantify police monitoring of communications in Xinjiang.

Chart: Soohee Cho/The Intercept
Beyond passively watching phones, the government worked to coerce people to participate in a biometrics program purported to be a health initiative. Under the “Physicals for All” program, citizens were required to go have their faces scanned and voice signatures analyzed, as well as give DNA. Documents describing the program indicate it is part of the policing system.
Darren Byler, an anthropologist and postdoctoral researcher at the Center for Asian Studies at the University of Colorado, Boulder, said that while the “Physicals for All” program has long been known about and suspected to be a form of surveillance, authorities have always denied it and said it was simply a public health initiative. “How clearly this is part of the policing system is made clear in the documents,” Byler said. “It’s very clear, it’s obvious that that’s a part of how they want to control the population.”
Reports in the database show “Physicals for All” work is routinely conducted through the police “convenience stations,” leading to complaints from citizens about sanitary conditions. (The convenience stations purportedly bring the community and police closer together, featuring amenities like public Wi-Fi and phone-charging, but are hubs for surveillance.) They also discuss how citizens who fail to submit biometric and biographical information are reported to police, face fines, and are sometimes made to formally renounce their behavior. Some documents about the program focus on migrants or the “ethnic-language people.” One indicates that physical exams conducted on students are used for policing:



> (09-MARCH-2018) (QIDAOWAN COMMUNITY)
> (2) Houbo Institute, which is part of the second hospital of Xinjiang Medical University, is going to start a new semester soon. The list of names of returning students is not known to us.
> 
> Method: After the semester begins, we will immediately conduct “physical checkup” work on the returning students using the IJOP platform. We will report to the national security team immediately if we find any suspicious labels.



Documents in the database also show heightened surveillance of people as they move about in public through the growing use of facial recognition, directed by the IJOP system. The police report on use of the anti-terrorism sword also details the use of facial recognition, showing that over 900 people were checked using facial recognition across 40 police convenience stations in Qidaowan Precinct.



> (17-APRIL-2018)
> (FOUR) Convenience Police Station Operational Notes:
> 
> There are 40 convenience stations in Qidaowan Precinct in total. … This week we searched 2,057 people with the anti-terrorism sword and did facial recognition on 935 people. No suspects. We sent 237 intelligence reports using the Intelligence Reporting System.



It’s clear, Byler said after reviewing the numbers, that “face recognition has become an increasingly important aspect of the surveillance system.”
Some of the most intriguing evidence of personal data surveillance comes from computer programming code stored in the database and seemingly designed to generate reports. This reporting code references a good deal of material not included in the database obtained by The Intercept, making it impossible to confirm how much of it is actually collected by authorities or how it would be used.
Still, these so-called tactic or evidence collection reports give clues as to what information the database, on its own or as part of a broader collection, is intended to include. The report code contains references to data on online services like Facebook, QQ, Momo, Weibo, Taobao’s Aliwangwang, as well as actual phone call recordings, photos, GPS locations, and a list of “high-risk words.”
Documents in the database also confirm police access to information on people’s use of WeChat. Discussion of WeChat surveillance appears in records of auxiliary community police meetings and accounts of police investigations.
Surveillance in Ürümqi:

Police use a tool known as an “anti-terrorism sword” to download the contents of Ürümqi residents’ phones, sometimes three or four times a day.
Uyghurs who travel outside of China, as well as their relatives and friends, are monitored to stifle desire for greater freedom or autonomy.
Authorities keep tabs on who participates in weekly “flag-raising” ceremonies as a litmus test for loyalty to China.
Contact with areas outside Xinjiang, or with people in contact with those areas, is extensively monitored and is grounds for suspicion.
Practicing Islam is considered a red flag that has led to further investigation.
In an example of how police document their WeChat capabilities, one document — from the national Internet Safety Bureau — demonstrates a police search drill in which a police officer was marked as a suspect for the purpose of the exercise. He drove throughout the city while other police traced his vehicle using his WeChat history and location data. Authorities appeared to read the mock suspect’s WeChat texts, with one “WeChat Analysis” reading, “He said he’s having lunch at the petrol area.”
The aim of much of the surveillance is to curb any influence that could conceivably lead to a desire for greater freedom or autonomy among Uyghur and other minority groups in Xinjiang.
For example, the material corroborates reports that Uyghurs are monitored outside of China and that it’s not just people who travel abroad and then return who are surveilled, but also their relatives and friends.
Police in the Shuimogou district of Ürümqi investigated a young woman because her high school friend went to study at Stanford University and because the woman sometimes talked to her on WeChat. “According to the investigation, we did not find any violation of rules or laws while she resided and worked in our area,” read a 2018 report from the neighborhood of Weihuliang. “While she resided in the area she actively participated in community works and actively participated in other activities in the community, and actively participated in the raising of the flag ceremony in the community. We do not see any abnormality and she is cleared from suspicion.” Byler called the incident “important confirmation on the way people outside the country are being monitored by those in the country, and the way these connections produce ‘micro-clues’ of suspicion.”
In another example of how outside influence is grounds for suspicion, a document from the community of Anping, also in Shuimogou, mentions that all phones and computers of workers who have visited family outside of the city should be inspected for unauthorized content.



> Clearing violent and terrorist audio and video has always been a very important part of stability work. Our community pays a lot of attention to this work. Because the Chinese New Year break is coming to an end, people will increasingly come back to work, therefore our community decided to conduct a large-scale computer and cellphone inspection for workers who are coming back. We inspect stored information on every household and every person’s cellphone and computer. To date, we did not discover violent and terrorist audio and video among the residents in the area. We will continue this work later and will record the results.



Chinese authorities’ fear of outside influence on citizens of Xinjiang is connected to an initiative called “backflow prevention,” or _fanghuiliu_. The idea is to prevent the “backflow” of extremism or other malign ideas from abroad.
A possible example of this initiative is the 2018 imprisonment of Feng Siyu, a Chinese academic who came to Xinjiang University’s Folklore Research Center as a translator the previous February. Feng is part of China’s Han ethnic majority and is originally from Hangzhou in eastern China, far from Xinjiang. But she studied abroad — including at Amherst College, SOAS University of London, and Indiana University — and came under police attention in Ürümqi, according to an October 2017 police intelligence note in the database. The note recorded that Feng had “foreign obscure software” on her OnePlus smartphone. The note further stated that the software came with the smartphone and that Feng did not use it.
Feng is believed to have been sentenced to two years in prison in February 2018. Her imprisonment is tracked on shahit.biz, the Xinjiang Victim’s Database, a website that documents instances of incarceration in the region.
Steenberg, the anthropologist, said he believes Feng was under scrutiny because she traveled between the U.S. and Ürümqi and spoke good Uyghur, and because of her work at the folk research center and with its founder Rahile Dawut. A celebrated academic, Dawut collected ethnographic data, including folktales and oral literature in southern Xinjiang and information on Sufi Islamic practices. Dawut disappeared in December 2017 and is believed to be in detention.
The drive for “backflow prevention” is also reflected in the identification of those who leave China as security threats. One report from Saimachang, a Uyghur stronghold in the historic center of Ürümqi, discusses former residents who have gone abroad and applied for political asylum as terrorists, corroborating reports that Uyghurs are monitored outside of China.
“It’s really clear evidence that charges of terrorism or extremism don’t meet international standards of terrorism or extremism,” said Byler. “Applying for political asylum is not a sign of terrorism by most definitions, but in this context it is.” This also demonstrates the amount of detailed information Chinese authorities keep about Uyghurs abroad.




Abduweli Ayup, a Uyghur, linguist and activist at his home in Bergen, Norway on January 21, 2021.

Photo: Melanie Burford for The Intercept
Ayup has experience with this sort of monitoring. While in Kashgar, Ayup operated a Uyghur-language kindergarten and promoted Uyghur-language education. He fled China after 15 months of detention, during which he said he was interrogated and tortured. After leaving, Ayup said at one point he joined a WeChat group for the Chinese embassy. “When I went to the Chinese embassy, they asked me to join their WeChat group, and when I joined, a Chinese spy in Ürümqi found me; he talked to me and he threatened me,” he said.
Even holding a passport is considered suspicious. Documents in the database indicate Uyghur passport holders are checked on by authorities more frequently than those without passports.
Indeed, any knowledge of life outside of Xinjiang can be flagged as suspicious. For example, police in Weihuliang took note in one weekly report, among “people who need special attention,” of four people who had traveled to Beijing “to reflect local issues.” “The rest have never left the region, so they’re seen as safer,” Byler said.
Even phone calls or text chats involving outside countries invite scrutiny from authorities in Xinjiang. In Tianshan, the historic and majority-Uyghur center of Ürümqi, authorities reported sending a professional driver to re-education following an unusual phone call to a “key country.” Zenz believes the “key country” is one in a group of 26 largely Muslim “focus” countries watched by authorities. Xinjiang authorities have targeted people with connections to these countries for interrogation, detention and even imprisonment, according to a report by Human Rights Watch. The countries include Afghanistan, Algeria, Azerbaijan, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Libya, Malaysia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Thailand, Turkey, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, and Yemen.



> SUZHOULU COMMUNITY STABILITY WEEKLY JUDGMENT REPORT (FEB 12 - FEB 14)
> 2. While doing home visits, a community worker learned that [name redacted], who lives in [address], national ID number [redacted], female, Uyghur, has no job and stays home to care for her young children. … Community police searched on the police net and found out that the person was arrested in [hometown] on September 21, 2017. The reason for arrest: Cellphone contains obscure chat program. …
> 
> 3. Social workers learned while doing home visits that [name redacted], who lives in [address redacted], Uyghur, national ID number [redacted] … his mother, [name redacted], female, Uyghur, national ID number [redacted], has been detained in Tianshan District on September 20, 2017. Reason for arrest: face covering. …
> 
> 4. Community workers learned during home visits that [name redacted], who lives in [address], male, Uyghur … driver … has strange phone call behaviors during the night, and communicates with key countries. He has been detained in his hometown and is currently educated and converted (Shule County). … Mother: [name redacted], female, Uyghur. … Currently the community is monitoring her husband and children according to the detainee relative conditions.



The database also shows increased use of artificial intelligence, coupled with human intelligence, in directing surveillance in recent years. Documents from authorities in the Ürümqi districts of Tianshan and Shuimogou show IJOP sending push notifications directing investigations by local police. In 2018, one police precinct alone received 40 such notifications, according to one document.
While news reports in recent years have depicted Chinese police automation systems like IJOP as rudimentary, relying heavily on human intelligence, evidence in the database indicates use of machine-learning technology is growing, said Byler, who received his Ph.D. in Uyghur technopolitics in Chinese cities of Central Asia.



A police smartphone app used in Ürümqi during a police stop or at a checkpoint shows facial recognition results, along with information about the top matches from police records. On the left, five possible matches are shown, with the top match rated 95.58 percent likely correct. Screenshots: Obtained by The Intercept

1Search result
2Name
3Sex: Male
4ID number
5Identity characteristics
6Process result
7Face database: Long-term residents
8Note
9Person details
10Date of Birth
11National ID number
12Identity: Border control subject of “backflow prevention.” (Indicates the person was flagged as part of an initiative to curb the influx of dangerous ideas from foreign countries.)
13Process: Arrest immediately if it’s the person, otherwise collect information.
“What your data shows is that it’s beginning to automate in some ways, especially around face surveillance,” Byler said. “If they’re using 900 checkpoint [scans] around face surveillance, they are using AI to a significant extent now,” he added, referring to the 935 facial scans in one week in Qidaowan Precinct.
Documents show police are also adding into IJOP a significant amount of checkpoint data, including phone downloads from anti-terrorism swords. Documents from 2018 and 2019 show mounting push notifications from IJOP. “It’s clear that that system is beginning to alert them and direct their policing in new ways, and so it is starting to come online,” said Byler.
The documents also make clear the extent to which authorities try to assess the psychology of people under suspicion, with a keen eye in particular toward loyalty and even fervor. This is exhibited at so-called flag-raising ceremonies: community events in which participants proclaim their loyalty to China and the ruling regime. Documents show that these events are extensively monitored by police and their proxies. Authorities watch not just former detainees but their relatives as well, to confirm they are participating and to determine how passionate they are about doing so.




A security officer looks on as a woman passes through a checkpoint, equipped with a metal detector and facial recognition technology, to enter the main bazaar in Ürümqi, Xinjiang, on Nov. 6, 2018.

Photo: Bloomberg via Getty Images
Authorities used participation in these weekly ceremonies as a way to monitor three people, likely Uyghurs, on a community watchlist, according to one of the documents. Participants are asked to perform a vow of loyalty involving the phrase “Voice your opinion, raise your sword” (or “Show your voice, show your sword”). If their participation is not wholehearted and patriotic, employers and others inform on them to police, Byler said. Also scrutinized at the ceremonies are “surplus laborers,” people on a coercive labor track that blends work on community projects with re-education. The surplus labor program has ramped up sharply over the last four years.


> The documents make clear the extent to which authorities try to assess the psychology of people under suspicion, with a keen eye in particular toward loyalty and even fervor.


Documents show that the police officers and neighbors doing this monitoring at flag-raising ceremonies are also making recommendations about who should be sent to re-education camps.
Although China has insisted its policing in Xinjiang is directed at stopping terrorism and extremism rather than persecuting the practice of any religion, the database confirms and details how surveillance homes in on many common expressions of Islamic faith, and even on curiosity about the religion, leading in many cases to investigations. The government considers it a potential sign of religious extremism to grow a beard, have a prayer rug, own Uyghur books, or even quit smoking or drinking.
Surveillance directed at Islamic practice in the region also involves watching mosques. Authorities surveil mosque attendance, tally which worshippers are migrants and which are residents, and monitor whether prayers are conducted in an orderly way, according to police reports in the database.
Ayup said mosques have cameras inside too, and people are surveilled for the way in which they pray.
“If people use a different style of praying … the camera takes a picture,” he said, adding that a friend was arrested for this. Ayup said that some Uyghurs pray in very old styles, and some use new styles. “In the Chinese government’s eyes, the new style is threatening, is extremism,” he said.
Even the use of natural gas in a neighborhood mosque was monitored, according to a document from Quingcui, a community in the Liudaowan neighborhood in the district of Shuimogou.




Security cameras are seen on a street in Ürümqi, the capital of western China’s Xinjiang region, on July 2, 2010.

Photo: Peter Parks/AFP via Getty Images
*CITIZENS INTEGRATED INTO SYSTEM OF “HYPERPOLICING”*
The relentless surveillance in Xinjiang has been the best understood component of the repressive environment in the region. More difficult to study and understand, particularly for human rights groups abroad, has been how and to what extent it drives enforcement. As it turns out, the intensity of policing in Xinjiang matches the hyperaggression of the surveillance: closely integrated and every bit as pervasive. The database obtained by The Intercept reveals evidence of a deeply invasive police state, concerned with people’s thoughts and enthusiasms, entering their homes, interfering with their daily movements, and even seeking out crimes in activities perfectly legal at the time they were undertaken. Authorities in the region direct investigations and other police work using an approach one expert, after examining portions of the database, described as “hyperpolicing,” cracking down on any aberrant behavior. The tactics used are all-encompassing, involving civilian brigades, home visits, and frequent checkpoints. As extensive as this work is, it is also conducted in a way that targets people according to perceived danger. Minorities of all sorts — be they linguistic, religious, or ethnic — are disproportionately patrolled.
Discrimination against so-called ethnic-language people, or Muslim minorities with their own languages, is a key component of policing in Xinjiang.
“Hyperpolicing” in Ürümqi:

A wide range of activities and behaviors among Muslim minorities has been considered criminal, even if they were legal at the time of the incident.
Vigorous policing of mosques, including tight regulation of who can enter and observation of how congregants pray, with the goal of lowering attendance.
Other examples of hyperpolicing: watching people’s online behavior, requiring knives in restaurants to be kept on chains, regular home visits to inspect for religious items like prayer mats and books.
Community informants received extensive guidance on what kind of intelligence to feed to police.
Many detainees and former detainees are referred to as “three-category people.” The label, applied very liberally, refers to purported extremists and terrorists of three levels of severity, ranked according to the government’s perception of their mindset and potential to cause harm. Relatives of detainees and former detainees are also labeled, ranked, and tracked by police. Another system categorizes people as trustworthy, normal, or untrustworthy.
Police categories and rankings implicitly draw attention to minority groups, but in some contexts, this focus is made explicit. For example, minutes from the community stability meetings show that these meetings specifically put a focus on “ethnic-language people,” who are under stronger surveillance than Chinese-speaking Hui Muslims. The meetings also focus on relatives of primarily Uyghur detainees.
Uyghurs are also policed in their practice of Islam. Documents show that police at times conduct security checks on everyone attending a given mosque.
Indeed, the government tightly controls who is allowed into mosques. One police document detailed an incident in which three students tried to go to a funeral for a friend’s father at a mosque. As Byler described it, the three students “were just hanging around the entrance trying to find a way to walk in because they had to scan their ID cards to go inside, but they were worried that [the front gate checkpoint] would contact the police and they didn’t know what to do.” The police questioned the students, held them for hours, and put them on a watchlist at school, “even though they explained everything they were trying to do,” Byler said.
More recent reports indicate that authorities set a goal of lowering mosque attendance and met it. Many police documents mention that mosque attendance is lower, and some explicitly describe this as indicating success. One report indicated that at one mosque, total visits in a four-month period declined by 80,000, compared to the same period in the prior year: more than a 96 percent decrease. This appears to be partly due to the departure of an imam and temporary closure of the mosque, but the report states that “there has been a drastic lowering of religious practitioners” over two years. It adds that this is partly because visitors left the city, were sent to camps, or were afraid to practice Islam.



> (12-NOVEMBER-2018)(XIHEBA)…
> There are 167 religious practitioners in the jurisdiction. … In the past two years, there has been a drastic lowering of religious practitioners. … The remaining practitioners are by and large long-term residents of advanced age.
> 
> Reasons for changes in believer numbers and composition: …
> 
> The jurisdiction strictly followed the anti-extremism work ordered by the regional officer. …
> 
> The mosque has a strict real-name policy and conducts religious activities following the law. People who work in the public sector and some young people no longer enter the premises. …
> 
> Since the beginning of the 2017 Strike Down and Detain operation, the problematic people in the jurisdiction have either been detained or re-educated. The total population has decreased.



Mosque activity that the Chinese government views as signs of extremism, said Ayup, can include praying without a Uyghur doppa, wearing perfume in the mosque, or even being relaxed while praying. Anybody who doesn’t praise the Chinese Communist Party after their prayer is also considered suspicious, he said.


> One system categorizes people as trustworthy, normal, or untrustworthy.


In police notes, Byler said, “it’s interesting that they’re describing citizens as enemies, and it makes it clear that they see this as a sort of counterinsurgency, when really they’re just trying to detect who practices Islam or not.”
Notes from a police station in Weihuliang describe a “large-scale investigation … focused on areas where migrant populations congregate,” concentrating on people from predominately Uyghur southern Xinjiang. The notes said that in one week, police had registered 605 people from southern Xinjiang, investigating 383 of them and people they lived with. In the same sweeps, authorities inspected 367 phones and nine computers.
Xinjiang authorities’ policing of Islam is particularly zealous in its hunt for “wild imams” or “illegal preaching.” The terms refer to Islamic preachers whose work is not sanctioned by the Chinese government; rights groups have said Chinese authorities draw this legal line arbitrarily, to serve political needs. These imams can be prosecuted for sermons delivered either online and in mosques.
The Weihuliang police station notes list 60 people involved in so-called illegal preaching, 50 of whom are in custody. The same document said that “illegal preaching” in the WeChat group “Group 1 teach (Qur’an ABCs)” led to the capture of a 41-year-old Hui woman and the administrative detention of a 62-year-old Hui man.
More recent documents, from 2017 through 2019, reflect mounting difficulty by the police in continuing to find violations to enforce and people to place in detention or re-education camps. That’s because in 2017, the first wave of detentions swept Xinjiang, leading to the expulsion of a large portion of the population from Ürümqi. Xinjiang party leader Chen Quanguo told officials to “round up everyone who should be rounded up,” extending a hard-line approach Chinese President Xi Jinping began organizing after a mass stabbing at a train station and an attack on an outdoor market with cars and explosives, both in 2014.
Police documents from this period, after the first wave of repression, reflect an intent to hunt down suspicious behavior of any kind.



> “You’re being policed on a micro level, both by human policing and by the application of the technology to you and your life.”


“The system is set up in a way that’s producing hyperpolicing,” Byler said, “where any strange or any kind of aberrant behavior is reported, and if you’re a minority, you’re ‘ethnic,’ which is how they refer to Uyghurs and Kazakhs, then you’re very susceptible to this kind of stuff and you’re being policed on a micro level, both by human policing and by the application of the technology to you and your life.”
In some instances, people are being persecuted for violating laws before the laws were even instituted.
One police document describes how Hui women were detained because of evidence they had studied the Quran in an online group — which was legal at the time they did it but became illegal prior to their detention. They had been inactive in the group for at least a year before they were detained.
Such uncertainty about laws in Xinjiang, and when one might run afoul of police, echoes Ayup’s experience. “After people get arrested, then they will find out that ‘Oh, that [activity] is dangerous,’” he explained.
Wang said the hyperpolicing has become more pervasive over time.
“It’s basically a crackdown of everything,” Wang said, spreading from repression of Islamic practices to drug abuse and mental illness. “They just want to make sure they have such control over that region, general overall control.”




People walk on the street of Xinjiang International Grand Bazaar on June 25, 2020, in Ürümqi.

Photo: David Liu/Getty Images
One illustration of how policing became increasingly aggressive and ubiquitous in Xinjiang is a police report discussing how one knife at a dumpling shop was not chained to a secure post, as per regulation. The report said the violation needed to be rectified within a day. Laws in Xinjiang require not only the chaining of knives, the document indicated, but that knives also have QR codes identifying their owners. “It’s just a way of showing how tightly everything is controlled, that even knives that are used in cooking have to be thought of as potential weapons,” said Byler.
To maintain the maximal vigilance entailed in “hyperpolicing,” authorities in Xinjiang enlisted ordinary citizens to inform on one another — not unheard of in China but practiced in the region more extensively, particularly against Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities.
Helping to enable this, citizens are rewarded for reporting on one another. The documents in the database include some details on this previously reported fact. Informants are rewarded for passing along information, but people are also rewarded for more specific actions. Linking their WeChat account, passing a verification, and posting an image can all result in a cash reward. All of this is tracked and reflected in the database.


> This type of policing, bubbling up from the grassroots of the populace, “is about recruiting and considering ordinary people as part of these surveillance teams.”


One document, a public announcement from police, indicates that police and auxiliaries faced pressure to submit large quantities of intelligence to authorities. It chastised citizens in the high-tech zone within Ürümqi’s Xinshi district for sending in tips that are “filler created just to make report numbers seem large, and cannot be used, and occupy a large amount of manpower and time to process.” For example, “residents reported that there are often kids urinating in the elevator” of one building. Also: “A few citizens reported that they are scammed while buying crabs or mooncakes online. Quantities lost are generally not big.”
The announcement then went on to extensively detail 10 “categories of intelligence that are forbidden to report,” including tips having nothing to do with “policy about anti-terrorism, minority policy,” or with something called the “Xinjiang Management Agenda,” or with “policies that benefits citizens.”
Essentially, as Byler put it, authorities “were like, ‘That’s not the intelligence we want, we want intelligence about the Muslims.’”
This type of policing, bubbling up from the grassroots of the populace, “is about recruiting and considering ordinary people as part of these surveillance teams,” Wang said. “And in that way, it spells out quite an interesting philosophy of surveillance and society and engineering that I don’t think a lot of people understand outside of China.”
When Ayup lived in Xinjiang, he said, groups of 10 families were required to report somebody once a week in a feedback box, which existed before the app. “The problem is, if you cannot find something to write, you have to make it up to avoid being sent to the camps and to the center, so it’s obligatory. That’s the problem, but you cannot blame someone who reports because it’s his or her obligation,” he said.




The Public Safety App is one way authorities in Xinjiang draw ordinary citizens into the work of alerting, monitoring, and law enforcement.

Chart: Soohee Cho/The Intercept
In addition to drafting ordinary citizens individually to report on neighbors, authorities in Xinjiang also organized them through more formal community groups known as “safety units” or “brigades.” These units are segmented into groups of 10, according to documents in the database. For example, 10 households or 10 businesses might be organized as a brigade, with one volunteer from each group responding to calls like an emergency medical technician and doing drills in opposition to “terrorism.”




Each business in a community “safety unit” must install a “one-click police alert button,” according to documents in the database. Once triggered, the auxiliary police and other businesses in the “safety unit” are required to show up within two minutes.

Photo: Obtained by The Intercept
The safety brigades hark back to a historical Chinese tradition known as the Baojia system, in which 10 households formed a bao (or later a jia, 10 of which in turn formed a bao). This fractal structure formed a social safety system and is heavily associated with policing and the militarization of the population.
In modern times, similar systems have been branded as “grid management.” Several years ago, the Chinese government rolled out grid management nationwide; the density of citizen watch units in Xinjiang, however, has remained much higher than in other parts of the country, and safety units there are used for different purposes.
The Xinjiang safety units have not been seen in previous government documents, Byler said, but are pretty obvious if you’re in the region, where you’ll see drills, people marching in formation, and business owners wearing red armbands to show their affiliation.​“It’s the militarization of the population as a whole,” Byler said. “To this point we haven’t had a full description of what it’s supposed to do.”
Hyperpolicing also reaches into people’s homes through regular visits by authorities; those deemed at risk for extremist, terrorist, or separatist influence receive frequent visits. This typically means Uyghurs, dissidents, and those who have gone through re-education camps, as well as anyone related to any of those people.
Minutes from community stability meetings give a granular look at the type of information recorded in these home visits. They include professions, place of employment, former jobs, relatives (and relatives’ national ID numbers), travel, location of children, schools the children are attending, and what the community is still monitoring.
Some residents are discussed as being monitored or controlled by the community; that means a neighborhood watch unit is assigned to monitor them. This can include visits as often as every day, or once or twice a week, from one or more cadre members living in close proximity.
Some relatives of detainees are visited daily by local police. Even those considered trustworthy are visited, “to show them warmth and pull them into the Chinese patriotic fold,” as Byler put it. “It’s like winning hearts and minds.”
In one account from a police document, an older woman whose son was held by authorities befriended a police officer who visited her. Police claimed that the woman had become like a mother to the officer. She treated him like her son and opened up about all of her actual son’s activities. She was the ideal type of person who has been re-educated through the system, the document indicated.
Some home visits are for inspection purposes, to find religious items. Documents show police searching for religious books and removing prayer mats and even, as mentioned in a July 2018 police document, a picture of the hajj, the Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca, Saudi Arabia. The documents indicate this effort originates from 2018 and is connected to a government initiative known as the “three cleanups” to encourage people to purge material considered extremist from their homes. “This is one of the first times I’ve seen that mentioned explicitly, that they’re going through people’s homes,” Byler said.
A document from October 2018 described how these home inspections unfold:


> First, the personnel from the police station should gather all the people in the house into the living room in order to verify their identities one by one. Second, the cadres responsible for the household and members of the patrol team will conduct a careful inspection of all rooms of the house, especially under the carpet, in the bathroom, in the kitchen, and under the bed. Suspicious areas such as corners of the sofas, etc., are to be inspected one by one using a “turning over the boxes, emptying out the cabinets” approach, and the house number where the suspicious objects were found and photo of the owner of the objects are to be taken as evidence.


The authorities also monitor phone calls between detainees and their family members back home. One document detailed such a call that lasted four minutes and 20 seconds, describing the contents of the conversation and how grateful the relatives were that the government allowed it. “It’s an inflection point documenting how people are receiving the re-education,” Byler explained. “If they cry or act angry that their relative can’t be released, that’s a sign that the re-education hasn’t been received.”
In many cases, relatives were asked to record their call and share it with the police, or they were interviewed immediately after to see how they were doing after the call.
Citizens in Xinjiang are also routinely stopped outside their homes by authorities. The database contains records from more than two million checkpoint stops in Ürümqi (population 3.5 million) and the surrounding area in a two-year period. It includes a list of nearly three dozen categories of people to stop, such as “intelligence national security important person.” When a person is stopped at a checkpoint, they go through an ID check, typically including processing via facial recognition. Facial recognition is sometimes performed through automatic scanning by a fixed surveillance camera. It can also be performed through a manual scan using a smartphone camera; these are often used on people deemed to need the extra scrutiny of an up-close facial scan, for example, because they lack ID. If a person’s face is displayed with a yellow, orange, or red indicator on a computer, showing the system has deemed them suspicious or criminal, they are questioned and may be arrested.



Four people flagged with various colored “inspection levels” based on authorities’ perception of how dangerous they are. Screenshots: Obtained by The Intercept

1ID
2Type: People inspection
3Level: Released
4Result: All seems normal
5Type: Verify national ID
6Level
7Inspection result: Drug-related person nationwide. Process method: Special inspection, collect information.
8Inspection type: Stability-related inspection
9Inspection level: Released
10Inspection result: Subject to stability-related investigation. Work process: Collect information, check suspicion, report to precinct of original residency [their Hukou].
11Result: Person incarcerated for July 5 riot [reference to 2009 Uyghur-Han civil unrest]. Process: Transfer to the sub-bureau of inspection location and detain.
Categories of people often stopped at checkpoints include relatives of offenders and relatives of detainees.
Data retained from these stops include photos of those stopped, the latitude and longitude of the stop, the name of the collection point, vehicle and license plate if applicable, the search time, the search level, whether the person was released, and the result of the search. Those who were stopped are categorized in the database as people who were immediately arrested, those who were returned to their original residence, psychiatric patients, relatives of detainees, relatives of offenders, and individuals who were listed as participants of the July 2009 Ürümqi riots, in which Uyghur–Han violence at a toy factory in southeast China led to a broader outbreak of civil unrest involving attacks against largely ethnically Han residents.




Security cameras are installed above the perimeter fence of what is officially known as a “vocational skills education center” in Dabancheng, Xinjiang, on Sept. 4, 2018. This center, situated between the region’s capital Ürümqi and tourist spot Turpan, is among the largest known ones.

Photo: Thomas Peter/Reuters
*A DETENTION SYSTEM BUILT ON UNCERTAINTY AND INCONSISTENCIES*
Beyond surveillance and policing, the database provides a close-up look at how various forms of incarceration are used to control the population, particularly minority groups and perceived dissidents in Xinjiang. It reveals a system moving to adapt its rhetoric and policies to a reality in which the length of incarceration, even under the guise of “training” or “re-education,” is often so uncertain that relatives of the imprisoned are grateful when detainees are granted fixed-term sentences.
Documents illustrate Xinjiang’s complex system of prison-like facilities, which roughly speaking break down into four categories: those for temporary detention; “re-education”; a more lenient form of re-education referred to as “vocational training”; and long-term prison.
Detention in Ürümqi:

Complex incarceration system in Xinjiang of temporary detention, re-education camps, “vocational training,” and long-term imprisonment.
Some evidence indicates that rates of detention are higher by a “shocking” degree than previously known, compared to less harsh forms of incarceration like re-education.
Detention centers, which are said to have the harshest conditions and worst crowding, are essentially interrogation and holding facilities. People are kept there while waiting for an investigation to be completed. Re-education facilities are officially known as “transformation through education” camps. They practice “highly coercive brainwashing” in the words of Zenz, who has investigated the camps using government documents. The training centers are purportedly intended to transmit vocational and other skills but are clearly prison-like, with barbed wire, high walls, watchtowers, and internal camera systems.
It is common for a given citizen to travel through multiple types of incarceration in a sort of pipeline fashion. One police document from the Tianshan district of Ürümqi describes a mother involved in a “national security incident” who was put into re-education, then a vocational training school.
The re-education was conducted through the public security bureau’s internal security division, a domestic security force that investigates transnational crime. It is “a very tough unit,” often used against dissidents, said Zenz. “I totally expect that to be a place where torture is practiced, without knowing it for sure,” he added.
Authorities then sent the mother to a vocational training center, which would have been “still plenty unpleasant and coercive,” said Zenz, but “the most lenient” and eventually leading to release into forced labor. “In the police state, it’s the most desirable place to be because you’ll eventually get out,” he said. (These types of so-called vocational training centers are distinct from real vocational training centers existing in China that do not involve forced stays where people are removed from their families and subject to indoctrination.)




Nejmiddin Qarluq, an ethnic Uyghur and political activist who fled China and was given asylum in Belgium, pictured at his new home in Brussels on Jan. 21, 2021.

Photo: Johanna de Tessieres for The Intercept
Nejmiddin Qarluq, a Uyghur who obtained asylum in Belgium in 2017, said the reason for detention isn’t always clear, since people are often arrested casually and have their property confiscated. When Qarluq was 6 years old, his father was released from prison. He himself was sentenced to three years in prison, then served another five-and-a-half-year term. One of his brothers was sentenced to life imprisonment in 1996, he said, and another brother was sentenced to six and a half years and is still in prison. His brother, ex-wife, and sister were locked up in an education camp in 2018.
Because Qarluq was sentenced when he was 14, he said his entire life after he was released was under Chinese Communist Party police supervision, and he wasn’t ever able to feel safe at all. And, he said, there is no freedom or privacy — even privacy of thought — beyond the country’s control. “I am the lucky one who got the chance to flee the country,” he said.
The database contains evidence that rates of detention, compared to re-education, may be significantly higher than outside observers believed. That would mean Uyghurs and others in the system were enduring significantly harsher conditions while incarcerated.
A police report from Weihuliang Precinct provides information on the number of people held throughout Shuimogou, one of seven districts in Ürümqi, in detention and re-education. At the time, in February 2018, the district had 803 people in re-education and almost as many, around 787, in detention. In Weihuliang specifically, the ratio of people in detention was even higher: 348 detained versus 184 in re-education.
Byler called this “a really shocking proportion, if we take this to be normative across the region.”
“That’s showing us that almost half of the people detained are not even in the re-education camp system yet, they’re just being processed,” Byler added. “Conditions in these spaces are really bad. If what these reports are telling us are true, that these larger numbers are being held in these spaces, it is really concerning.”
Byler described detention as often “very crowded, from what we’ve heard from people, and the conditions in them are really bad, because of the overcrowding. … People sometimes, because of the crowding, aren’t able to sleep at the same time because they can’t all fit on the bed (actually a platform with a wooden top called a ‘kang’) at the same time.” Cameras in the cell watch constantly, and lights remain on all night.
Re-education, in comparison, offers somewhat better conditions, including larger inner courtyards for marching or teaching, and more importantly, the hope of potentially quick release — whenever “transformative” education is complete. But documents from the database indicate this may be, at least in some cases, a false idea. In over 100 cases, they discuss fixed-length sentences for re-education, such as two-year or three-year terms.



> (WENXI COMMUNITY)
> 
> On November 5, 2018, police officers and household-assigned cadres accompanied [name redacted] (female, Uyghur …), wife of re-educated individual [name redacted] (male, Uyghur …), to Daban City re-education node to have a face-to-face with [her husband]. At the same time, they received the announcement from the re-education center and the procuratorate [prosecutor’s office] that her husband was sentenced to three years in re-education. The vocational training center told [the wife] that her husband could potentially be released early if he has good behavior inside the center. [The wife] told the cadre that she can accept the fact that her husband was to be re-educated for three years, although her mood is very down, but at least she and her husband have some hope. She also hoped that her husband could have good behavior inside the re-education center and hopefully reunite with the family early. Police and cadre comforted [the wife] that she shouldn’t worry too much, take care of herself and take care of the two children, and that the community would help her to solve any problems she would face.



The sentences appear to be assigned to people in the vocational form of re-education, often after they have been in incarcerated for an extended period of time. They come, documents show, through a program called “Two Inform, One Advocate,” with “inform” apparently referring to information about extremism (as provided in re-education) and “advocate” referring to advocacy of a policy to provide sentences.
Under this system, relatives and cadre members typically meet the person in re-education and a judge issues a “pre-judgment” and “pre-sentence,” usually of two to four years in documents from the database. Sometimes, certain requirements come along with the sentence, such as acquiring Chinese language skills. An October 2018 report stated that “some relatives of three-category people are very happy after they learned about ‘Two Inform, One Advocate’ work; because of this, at least they know how long it would take for their relatives to come out, and they can arrange many business-related things beforehand.”
In one of many examples of this policy in the database, from a November 2018 report, a Uyghur woman traveled to Daban City Vocational Center to receive a verdict with her brother:



> Her younger brother [name redacted] Uyghur, male … on September 27, 2017, due to living and traveling with a convicted person, was taken by Badaowan Precinct for re-education. Yesterday at the “Two Inform, One Advocate” activity at the center, the verdict was sheltering criminals, and the sentence was to study for three years at the vocational school. The relatives did not dissent from the verdict and thanked the care and love of the party and the government for her and their help to her [brother].



“We’ve never heard of people getting sentences for re-education,” said Byler. “They tell you that you have to earn points to be released, and so you’re supposed to try really hard to get re-educated, but now they’re saying actually that these people have been given a sentence, their course of re-education will take three years or what have you. So it’s actually like a prison term. That’s one of the tyrannies of the system, is that once you’re in the camps, you’ll never know when you’ll be released.”
Re-education also seems to be closed off as an option for some of the most heavily persecuted activities. The Weihuliang police station notes that homed in on “illegal preachers,” listing 50 in detention, said only two were in re-education.
Much of Zenz’s work has focused specifically on internment camps officially portrayed as “vocational skills education training centers” (_zhiye jineng jiaoyu peixun zhongxin_). The government positions them as a more benign alternative to prosecution for those who have committed minor offenses, but they are often cover for detention on minor grounds. Despite the emphasis on the word “training,” the facilities can practice coercive indoctrination just as re-education centers do.
Government documents previously obtained by Zenz had described the re-education as using, in Zenz’s recounting, “assault-style transformation through education” (_jiaoyu zhuanhua gongjian_) to “ensure that results are achieved” on those who have “a vague understanding, negative attitudes, or even show resistance.”
The impact of widespread detention is not limited to those who are in prison. One document indicates 326 children in one of the seven districts in Ürümqi have one or both parents in detention. The population of the district was around 43,730, according to 2010 government figures, but only around 12 percent of the population in Ürümqi are Uyghur. “If you take the adult population of that [ethnic group] and note that 326 students have one or two parents in detention, that appears to be quite substantial,” said Zenz.

*Documents:* The documents published with the story are available here.


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## Beast

Wow, it seems like outsider can easily access Chinese police data like public library. 

It is so hardly beliable that they can so easily access so many detail information of Chinese police system.. more like systematic smearing. And then we have some make it sounds like it targeted Muslim and uighur only....

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## ayodhyapati

Beast said:


> Wow, it seems like outsider can easily access Chinese police data like public library.
> 
> It is so hardly beliable that they can so easily access so many detail information of Chinese police system.. more like systematic smearing. And then we have some make it sounds like it targeted Muslim and uighur only....



world needs chinese model of running society and govt . long live chairman mao


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## GeHAC

'Backflow' means personnels coming from turkey syria that many of them trained or served in ISIS or other foreign militia group. What's wrong detaining these ppl? Also the 4 blurry database pic, the left two are marked as PASS, the right upper is ‘’national drug crime associated personnel“. What's wrong detain or inspect such person? None of the image listed mention Uyghers. Pretty lame-assed propaganda, yet is enough to brainwash your brainless citizen. Pathetic

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## Place Of Space

Uighur becomes a tool of anti China.

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## fallstuff

Beast said:


> Wow, it seems like outsider can easily access Chinese police data like public library.
> 
> It is so hardly beliable that they can so easily access so many detail information of Chinese police system.. more like systematic smearing. And then we have some make it sounds like it targeted Muslim and uighur only....



Its on intercept which is more credible then CGTN, Xinhua, and what not combined !


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## Place Of Space

ayodhyapati said:


> world needs chinese model of running society and govt . long live chairman mao


If you don't have terrorists attacks and terrorism threats, you don't need this model. Those are special period special management after China suffered thousands of large and small terrorism cases. 
It's interesting that the American propagandas listen to some Uighurs living in foreign country but shield most voices from Chinese Uighurs.

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## vi-va

China is bad, bad, bad. Repeat after me, bad bad bad.  
China use *PRISM (surveillance program) *to monitor everyone on earth.

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## Place Of Space

fallstuff said:


> Its on intercept which is more credible then CGTN, Xinhua, and what not combined !


It has nothing to do with credible. Propagandas are just propagandas.

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## kankan326

Place Of Space said:


> Uighur becomes a tool of anti China.


I believe most anti China members here know it's a fabricated tool. Even the OP knows it. They just love to use it. Nothing makes them happier than smearing China. Insecure complex syptom.

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## Beast

fallstuff said:


> Its on intercept which is more credible then CGTN, Xinhua, and what not combined !


I disgree with you. The amount of BS from these media has no longer trusted.

See how they seems to able to access Chinese police highly classified database streamlessly. Unless they are super hacker from a batch of journalist or Chinese who can achieved USD 15 billion economy in 40 years cant even make a decent system which can prevent hackers from attacking...

_"The database also shows increased use of artificial intelligence, coupled with human intelligence, in directing surveillance in recent years. Documents from authorities in the Ürümqi districts of Tianshan and Shuimogou show IJOP sending push notifications directing investigations by local police. In 2018, one police precinct alone received 40 such notifications, according to one document.
While news reports in recent years have depicted Chinese police automation systems like IJOP as rudimentary, relying heavily on human intelligence, evidence in the database indicates use of machine-learning technology is growing, said Byler, who received his Ph.D. in Uyghur technopolitics in Chinese cities of Central Asia."_

My final conclusion is they simply just make up these things and manipulate any narrative they want. The western media have caught many times doing these... If you still not convinced. Then I shall present a western journalist not related to CGTN, XInhua and I am interested what kind of verdict will you give since you trusted western media so much.









My Trip to China Exposed the Shameful Lies Peddled by the American Empire | Black Agenda Report


China is a land of bullet trains and rising standards of living, in contrast to the decay of the imperial center, the United States. “Pollution and income and wealth inequality remains problems for ‘socialism with Chinese characteristics.’”




blackagendareport.com






*“China has been labeled the greatest threat to the U.S.’ imperial interests, alongside Russia.”*

_The truth is that peace-loving people in the U.S. would love China were it not for the plethora of racist, imperialist lies that have been programmed into the minds of Westerners. None of the Empire’s lies held up in my travels from Beijing to Xi'an, then to Dunhuang to Ürümqi—known as the capital of Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. I didn’t see concentration camps for Uyghurs in Xinjiang. In fact, it is difficult to walk more than a mile without running into a mosque. Every street sign in the city is translated in both Mandarin and Uyghur languages. Security is more plentiful in Ürümqi than in Beijing or Xi'an, and for good reason. _

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## fallstuff

Beast said:


> I disgree with you. The amount of BS from these media has no longer trusted.
> 
> See how they seems to able to access Chinese police highly classified database streamlessly. Unless they are super hacker from a batch of journalist or Chinese who can achieved USD 15 billion economy in 40 years cant even make a decent system which can prevent hackers from attacking...
> 
> _"The database also shows increased use of artificial intelligence, coupled with human intelligence, in directing surveillance in recent years. Documents from authorities in the Ürümqi districts of Tianshan and Shuimogou show IJOP sending push notifications directing investigations by local police. In 2018, one police precinct alone received 40 such notifications, according to one document.
> While news reports in recent years have depicted Chinese police automation systems like IJOP as rudimentary, relying heavily on human intelligence, evidence in the database indicates use of machine-learning technology is growing, said Byler, who received his Ph.D. in Uyghur technopolitics in Chinese cities of Central Asia."_
> 
> My final conclusion is they simply just make up these things and manipulate any narrative they want. The western media have caught many times doing these... If you still not convinced. Then I shall present a western journalist not related to CGTN, XInhua and I am interested what kind of verdict will you give since you trusted western media so much.
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> My Trip to China Exposed the Shameful Lies Peddled by the American Empire | Black Agenda Report
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> China is a land of bullet trains and rising standards of living, in contrast to the decay of the imperial center, the United States. “Pollution and income and wealth inequality remains problems for ‘socialism with Chinese characteristics.’”
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> blackagendareport.com
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> *“China has been labeled the greatest threat to the U.S.’ imperial interests, alongside Russia.”*
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> _The truth is that peace-loving people in the U.S. would love China were it not for the plethora of racist, imperialist lies that have been programmed into the minds of Westerners. None of the Empire’s lies held up in my travels from Beijing to Xi'an, then to Dunhuang to Ürümqi—known as the capital of Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. I didn’t see concentration camps for Uyghurs in Xinjiang. In fact, it is difficult to walk more than a mile without running into a mosque. Every street sign in the city is translated in both Mandarin and Uyghur languages. Security is more plentiful in Ürümqi than in Beijing or Xi'an, and for good reason. _


I I believe intercept is credible because they are the one who actually broke the Edward Snowden story. 

CGTN propaganda is so elementary not to mention they are so incredibly lame, they have no chance against the Western mainstream media. They will chew CGTN up and then spit it out like doublemint gum !

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## Beast

fallstuff said:


> I I believe intercept is credible because they are the one who actually broke the Edward Snowden story.
> 
> CGTN propaganda is so elementary not to mention they are so incredibly lame, they have no chance against the Western mainstream media. They will chew CGTN up and then spit it out like doublemint gum !


Why avoid report about the Black agenda of Xinjiang? Too embarrass to talk about? Or becos you are selective? Please reply regard to that report about China. Do you have an agenda against China? Becos it say good about China and suddenly, you believe its not credible, is it?

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## beijingwalker



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## Cheehg

They made it sounds like targeting one specific group only. It is used all over the world. FBI, CIA, China, USA, UK. It is naive if we think our government is not monitoring us.


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## fallstuff

xeuss said:


> Millions of Leaked Police Files Detail Suffocating Surveillance of China’s Uyghur Minority
> 
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> Invasive digital monitoring and community informants drive a system all too ready to classify Muslims in Ürümqi as extremists and terrorists.
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> theintercept.com
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> Yael Grauer
> January 29 2021, 2:00 a.m.
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> THE ORDER CAME through a police automation system in Ürümqi, the largest city in China’s northwest Xinjiang region. The system had distributed a report — an “intelligence information judgment,” as local authorities called it — that the female relative of a purported extremist had been offered free travel to Yunnan, a picturesque province to the south.
> The woman found the offer on the smartphone messaging app WeChat, in a group known simply as “Travelers.” Authorities homed in on the group because of ethnic and family ties; its members included Muslim minorities like Uyghurs, Kazakhs, and Kyrgyz, who speak languages beside China’s predominant one, Mandarin. “This group has over 200 ethnic-language people,” the order stated. “Many of them are relatives of incarcerated people. Recently, many intelligence reports revealed that there is a tendency for relatives of [extremist] people to gather. This situation needs major attention. After receiving this information, please investigate immediately. Find out the background of the people who organize ‘free travel,’ their motivation, and the inner details of their activities.”
> Police in Ürümqi’s Xiheba Precinct, near the historic city center, received the order and summarized their work in a 2018 report. The one person rounded up as a result of the order, a Uyghur, had no previous criminal record, had never heard of the WeChat group, and never even traveled within China as a tourist. He “has good behavior and we do not have any suspicion,” police wrote. Still, his phone was confiscated and sent to a police “internet safety unit,” and the community was to “control and monitor” him, meaning the government would assign a trusted cadre member to regularly visit and watch over his household. A record about him was entered into the police automation system.
> Based on their notes, police appear to have investigated the man and assigned the cadre members to “control and monitor” him entirely because of religious activities, which took place five months earlier, of his eldest sister. She and her husband invited another Uyghur couple in Ürümqi to join a religious discussion group on the messaging app Tencent QQ, according to police records. The other couple bought a laptop and logged onto the group every day from 7 a.m. to 11:30 p.m.; the husband stopped smoking and drinking, and the wife began wearing longer clothes. They began listening to “religious extremism information” on their laptop, the report said. Between the two couples, police recovered 168 religious audio files deemed illegal, likely because they were connected to an Islamic movement, Tablighi Jamaat, that advocates practicing Islam as it was practiced when the Prophet Muhammad was alive.
> *Join Our Newsletter
> Original reporting. Fearless journalism. Delivered to you.*
> I’m in
> The fate of the eldest sister and her husband is unknown; the report simply states they were transferred to a different police bureau. The other couple was sent to a re-education camp.
> Details of the investigations are contained in a massive police database obtained by The Intercept: the product of a reporting tool developed by private defense company Landasoft and used by the Chinese government to facilitate police surveillance of citizens in Xinjiang.
> The database, centered on Ürümqi, includes policing reports that confirm and provide additional detail about many elements of the persecution and large-scale internment of Muslims in the area. It sheds further light on a campaign of repression that has reportedly seen cameras installed in the homes of private citizens, the creation of mass detention camps, children forcibly separated from their families and placed in preschools with electric fences, the systematic destruction of Uyghur cemeteries, and a systematic campaign to suppress Uyghur births through forced abortion, sterilization, and birth control.
> 
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> The database obtained by The Intercept contains police reports from Ürümqi, the capital and largest city in China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.
> 
> Map: Soohee Cho/The Intercept
> It offers an inside view into police intelligence files and auxiliary community police meetings, as well as the operation of checkpoints that are pervasive in Ürümqi. It also details phone, online, and financial surveillance of marginalized groups, showing how granular surveillance purportedly on the watch for extremism is often simply looking at religious activity. Additionally, the database spells out how Chinese authorities are analyzing and refining the information they collect, including trying to weed out “filler” intelligence tips submitted by police and citizens to inflate their numbers and using automated policing software to help prompt investigations like the one into the WeChat travel group.
> Among the revelations from the database is information on the extensive use of a tool that plugs into phones to download their contents, the “anti-terrorism sword,” deployed so frequently that Chinese authorities worried it was alienating the populace. It shows authorities tracking how their policies succeeded in driving down mosque attendance. It also offers evidence that the “Physicals for All” biometric collection program, which authorities insisted was solely a health initiative, is intended as part of the policing system. And it quantifies and provides details on the extensive electronic monitoring that goes on in Xinjiang, containing millions of text messages, phone call records, and contact lists alongside banking records, phone hardware and subscriber data, and references to WeChat monitoring as well as e-commerce and banking records.
> The database also sheds light on the extent of policing and detention in Xinjiang. It details how former residents who went abroad and applied for political asylum were flagged as terrorists. In some cases, it appears as though fixed-term sentences were assigned to people in re-education detention — undercutting the idea, promulgated by the government, that the lengths of such detentions are contingent on rehabilitation or vocational training.
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> Surveillance cameras are mounted to the exterior of a mosque in the main bazaar in Ürümqi, Xinjiang, on Nov. 6, 2018.
> 
> Photo: Bloomberg via Getty Images
> The Ürümqi Police Database Reveals:
> 
> How Chinese authorities collect millions of text messages, phone contacts, and call records, as well as e-commerce and banking records, from Muslim minorities in Xinjiang.
> Invasive surveillance techniques watch for signs of religious enthusiasm, which are generally equated with extremism.
> Evidence that biometric data collected under the “Physicals for All” health program feeds into the police surveillance system.
> Police use community informants to collect massive amounts of information on Uyghurs in Ürümqi.
> Applying for asylum abroad can result in being classified as a terrorist, as part of an initiative to prevent the “backflow” of foreign ideas.
> Taken together, the materials provide a broad overview of how the extensive surveillance systems deployed in Xinjiang fit together to repress minority populations and how extensively they impact day-to-day life in the region.
> “Overall, this testifies to an incredible police state, one that is quite likely to place suspicions on people who have not really done anything wrong,” said Adrian Zenz, an anthropologist and researcher who focuses on Xinjiang and Tibet.
> The investigations stemming from the WeChat travelers group offer a concrete example of this intense policing, said Maya Wang, China senior researcher at Human Rights Watch. “You can see the muddled thinking in here, where people are being jailed for nothing, but also the process is so arbitrary.”
> The revelations underscore how Xinjiang is an early look at the ways recent technology, like smartphones, cheap digital camera systems, and mass online storage of data, can be combined to monitor and repress large groups of people when civil liberties concerns are pushed aside.
> “The mass surveillance in Xinjiang is a cautionary tale for all of us,” said Wang. “Xinjiang really shows how privacy is a gateway right, where if you have no privacy, that’s where you see that you have no freedoms as a human being at all. You don’t have the right to practice your religion, you don’t have the right to be who you are, you don’t even have the right to think your own thoughts because your thoughts are being parsed out by these incessant visits and incessantly monitored by surveillance systems, whether they’re human or artificial, and evaluated constantly for your level of loyalty to the government.”
> Landasoft and China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs did not respond to requests for comment.
> *CENTRAL STORAGE FOR THE PUBLIC SECURITY BUREAU IN ÜRÜMQI*
> The database obtained by The Intercept appears to be maintained and used by the Ürümqi City Public Security Bureau and the broader Xinjiang Public Security Bureau. It also contains documents from units of the national Internet Safety and Protection Bureau.
> Landasoft has branded the software that appears to be behind the database as “iTap,” a big data system it markets publicly.
> The database spans 52 gigabytes and contains close to 250 million rows of data. It is fed by and provides data back to various apps, roughly a dozen of which appear linked to the database. These include:
> 
> Jingwang Weishi, an app for monitoring files on a mobile phone, which police in China have reportedly forced Uyghurs to download.
> Baixing Anquan, which roughly translates to “people’s safety app” or “public safety app” and appears to be used by both citizens and police, including to enable citizens to snitch on one another to the authorities.
> Quzheng Shuju Guanli, or “Evidence Collection Management,” which collects “evidence” from apps like WeChat and Outlook.
> ZhiPu, a graphic interface of people’s relationships and the extent to which authorities are interested in them (the database contains only sparse information on ZhiPu).
> 
> The database contains evidence of extensive monitoring by Chinese authorities. In some cases, like SMS text messages, it contains actual communication captured by authorities. In others, like WeChat, there are fields, reporting code, or references to monitoring in police files.
> One of the database’s major components is an extensive collection of minutes from “community stability” meetings, in which de facto police auxiliaries, or citizen-staffed neighborhood police, discuss what took place the week prior across their area. The database also contains various associated documents outlining policing and intelligence priorities and summaries of intelligence collected, local facilities checked, families of detainees visited, and updates on people of interest in the community. There are also weekly intelligence and detention reports, which include information on investigations of tips and on suspicious people.
> 
> 
> 
> Left: A police-issued smartphone. Right: Login screen for one of the apps on the smartphone, Public Safety App. Screenshots: Obtained by The Intercept
> 
> 1Public Safety App. Used to submit intelligence reports or tips, among other things.
> 2People Inspection App. Used for facial recognition.
> 3An app linking to a police automation system, the Integrated Joint Operations Platform, or IJOP.
> 4Registration screen for the Public Safety App
> 5Password
> 6Login button
> The database provides information on numerous other tools used to analyze the digital surveillance it contains. For example, documents in the database reference a Chinese government system called the Integrated Joint Operations Platform. IJOP, which has been the subject of extensive interest and discussion by human rights groups, gathers together surveillance about the residents of Xinjiang, stores it centrally, and uses it to make automated policing decisions referred to in the database as “pushes,” or push notifications. IJOP was the platform police said issued the order to investigate the WeChat free travel group.
> Other documents give information on the use of the label “three-category people,” who are deemed terrorists or extremists, with three varying degrees of severity.
> The database itself repeatedly uses a marker to query for Uyghur people, “iXvWZREN,” which groups them with terrorists and ex-convicts. There is no marker for Han Chinese, the majority ethnic group in China.
> 
> 
> 
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> A computer monitor shows many faces at an inspection point in Kashgar, Xinjiang, on June 28, 2018.
> 
> Photo: Yomiuri Shimbun via AP
> *FROM CHECKPOINTS TO CHAT MONITORING: SURVEILLANCE IN ÜRÜMQI*
> The surveillance in Xinjiang was known to be extensive, creating one of the most watched regions in the world. What the database reveals is how this spying machine is used: what surveillance looks like on the ground (unrelenting) and what specific ends it is intended to serve (often to curb any unsanctioned influence, from the practice of Islam to ideas from foreign countries). People are watched up close and at a distance, with some information directly sucked out of their digital devices, other data collected from taps and sensors, and still more from relatives and informants in the community. The campaign against Uyghurs and their practice of Islam is laid out in stark and aggressive terms in police documents, and paranoia about outside or otherwise malign influence of many sorts manifest repeatedly.
> Some of the most invasive data in the database comes from “anti-terrorism sword” phone inspection tools. Police at checkpoints, which pervade the city, make people plug their phones into these devices, which come from various manufacturers. They gather personal data from phones, including contacts and text messages, and also check pictures, videos, audio files, and documents against a list of prohibited items. They can display WeChat and SMS text messages. The data extracted is then integrated into IJOP.
> A 2018 report from a neighborhood just northeast of the center of Ürümqi mentions authorities conducting searches on 1,860 people with an anti-terrorism sword in just one week in March. In the same report, detailing a single week in April, 2,057 people in the area had their phones checked. Around 30,000 people live in the area, the Qidaowan neighorhood, according to government statistics.
> 
> 
> This pattern of frequent police stops is seen in other parts of Ürümqi. Documents discuss police checking people’s phones upwards of three or four times in one night, and how this makes it difficult to stay on the good side of the populace, which is clearly becoming annoyed.
> For example, an August 2017 police report said that “due to overly frequent phone inspections conducted by certain checkpoints, which caused some people to be inspected over 3 times, people complain about this work.” An October 2017 “social opinion intelligence report” stated that “some people reflected that the current checkpoint is too overpowered. Often they would be checked 3 times during one night. It wastes their time when they are in an emergency.”
> The documents discuss people who switched to older phones to prevent the inconvenience of these phone checks.
> Rune Steenberg, an anthropologist in Denmark focusing on Xinjiang and Uyghurs, who spent time in Kashgar as a researcher as late as 2016, said he switched to using a simple phone rather than a smartphone in 2014 and that many Uyghurs did the same. “It’s not just about them discovering stuff on your phone,” he said. “They can place stuff on your phone in order to incriminate you. And there’s no way you can afterwards prove that that was placed on your phone and it wasn’t from you. So it became really dangerous, actually, to have a smartphone.”
> And, Steenberg said, police would often scam people into giving up their smartphones, falsely stating the phone had religious content and asking people if it was theirs, knowing they would disown the device. “They would be like, ‘No, that’s not my phone, no, I didn’t bring my phone here,’” said Steenberg. Then, he said, the police would hold onto the phones and sell them afterward.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Residents pass by a security checkpoint and surveillance cameras mounted on a street in Kashgar, Xinjiang, on Nov. 5, 2017.
> 
> Photo: Ng Han Guan/AP
> The database also helps quantify how broadly phone surveillance was deployed around Ürümqi. For example, in the space of one year and 11 months, Chinese authorities collected close to 11 million SMS messages. In one year and 10 months, they gathered 11.8 million records on phone call duration and parties involved in the call. And in a one-year, 11-month period, they gathered seven million contacts and around 255,000 records on phone hardware, including the IMSI number that identifies phones on cellular networks; phone model and manufacturer; a computer network identifier known as a MAC address; and another cellular network identifier, the IMEI number.
> Phone call information that is tracked in the database includes people on the calls, name of the recipient, and the start and stop times of each conversation. Fields in the database indicate that online dating information, e-commerce purchases, and email contacts may also be extracted from phones.
> “You cannot feel safe anywhere because of your cellphone,” said Abduweli Ayup, a linguist and poet who lived in Kashgar, Xinjiang. “You have to turn your cellphone on 24 hours, and you have to answer the phone at any time if police call you.” He said that with chat apps also monitored, Uyghurs can never experience privacy, even at home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The database contains phone surveillance records, helping to quantify police monitoring of communications in Xinjiang.
> 
> Chart: Soohee Cho/The Intercept
> Beyond passively watching phones, the government worked to coerce people to participate in a biometrics program purported to be a health initiative. Under the “Physicals for All” program, citizens were required to go have their faces scanned and voice signatures analyzed, as well as give DNA. Documents describing the program indicate it is part of the policing system.
> Darren Byler, an anthropologist and postdoctoral researcher at the Center for Asian Studies at the University of Colorado, Boulder, said that while the “Physicals for All” program has long been known about and suspected to be a form of surveillance, authorities have always denied it and said it was simply a public health initiative. “How clearly this is part of the policing system is made clear in the documents,” Byler said. “It’s very clear, it’s obvious that that’s a part of how they want to control the population.”
> Reports in the database show “Physicals for All” work is routinely conducted through the police “convenience stations,” leading to complaints from citizens about sanitary conditions. (The convenience stations purportedly bring the community and police closer together, featuring amenities like public Wi-Fi and phone-charging, but are hubs for surveillance.) They also discuss how citizens who fail to submit biometric and biographical information are reported to police, face fines, and are sometimes made to formally renounce their behavior. Some documents about the program focus on migrants or the “ethnic-language people.” One indicates that physical exams conducted on students are used for policing:
> https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20466268-document-15
> Documents in the database also show heightened surveillance of people as they move about in public through the growing use of facial recognition, directed by the IJOP system. The police report on use of the anti-terrorism sword also details the use of facial recognition, showing that over 900 people were checked using facial recognition across 40 police convenience stations in Qidaowan Precinct.
> https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20466322-document-14
> It’s clear, Byler said after reviewing the numbers, that “face recognition has become an increasingly important aspect of the surveillance system.”
> Some of the most intriguing evidence of personal data surveillance comes from computer programming code stored in the database and seemingly designed to generate reports. This reporting code references a good deal of material not included in the database obtained by The Intercept, making it impossible to confirm how much of it is actually collected by authorities or how it would be used.
> Still, these so-called tactic or evidence collection reports give clues as to what information the database, on its own or as part of a broader collection, is intended to include. The report code contains references to data on online services like Facebook, QQ, Momo, Weibo, Taobao’s Aliwangwang, as well as actual phone call recordings, photos, GPS locations, and a list of “high-risk words.”
> Documents in the database also confirm police access to information on people’s use of WeChat. Discussion of WeChat surveillance appears in records of auxiliary community police meetings and accounts of police investigations.
> Surveillance in Ürümqi:
> 
> Police use a tool known as an “anti-terrorism sword” to download the contents of Ürümqi residents’ phones, sometimes three or four times a day.
> Uyghurs who travel outside of China, as well as their relatives and friends, are monitored to stifle desire for greater freedom or autonomy.
> Authorities keep tabs on who participates in weekly “flag-raising” ceremonies as a litmus test for loyalty to China.
> Contact with areas outside Xinjiang, or with people in contact with those areas, is extensively monitored and is grounds for suspicion.
> Practicing Islam is considered a red flag that has led to further investigation.
> In an example of how police document their WeChat capabilities, one document — from the national Internet Safety Bureau — demonstrates a police search drill in which a police officer was marked as a suspect for the purpose of the exercise. He drove throughout the city while other police traced his vehicle using his WeChat history and location data. Authorities appeared to read the mock suspect’s WeChat texts, with one “WeChat Analysis” reading, “He said he’s having lunch at the petrol area.”
> The aim of much of the surveillance is to curb any influence that could conceivably lead to a desire for greater freedom or autonomy among Uyghur and other minority groups in Xinjiang.
> For example, the material corroborates reports that Uyghurs are monitored outside of China and that it’s not just people who travel abroad and then return who are surveilled, but also their relatives and friends.
> Police in the Shuimogou district of Ürümqi investigated a young woman because her high school friend went to study at Stanford University and because the woman sometimes talked to her on WeChat. “According to the investigation, we did not find any violation of rules or laws while she resided and worked in our area,” read a 2018 report from the neighborhood of Weihuliang. “While she resided in the area she actively participated in community works and actively participated in other activities in the community, and actively participated in the raising of the flag ceremony in the community. We do not see any abnormality and she is cleared from suspicion.” Byler called the incident “important confirmation on the way people outside the country are being monitored by those in the country, and the way these connections produce ‘micro-clues’ of suspicion.”
> In another example of how outside influence is grounds for suspicion, a document from the community of Anping, also in Shuimogou, mentions that all phones and computers of workers who have visited family outside of the city should be inspected for unauthorized content.
> https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20466397-document-9
> Chinese authorities’ fear of outside influence on citizens of Xinjiang is connected to an initiative called “backflow prevention,” or _fanghuiliu_. The idea is to prevent the “backflow” of extremism or other malign ideas from abroad.
> A possible example of this initiative is the 2018 imprisonment of Feng Siyu, a Chinese academic who came to Xinjiang University’s Folklore Research Center as a translator the previous February. Feng is part of China’s Han ethnic majority and is originally from Hangzhou in eastern China, far from Xinjiang. But she studied abroad — including at Amherst College, SOAS University of London, and Indiana University — and came under police attention in Ürümqi, according to an October 2017 police intelligence note in the database. The note recorded that Feng had “foreign obscure software” on her OnePlus smartphone. The note further stated that the software came with the smartphone and that Feng did not use it.
> Feng is believed to have been sentenced to two years in prison in February 2018. Her imprisonment is tracked on shahit.biz, the Xinjiang Victim’s Database, a website that documents instances of incarceration in the region.
> Steenberg, the anthropologist, said he believes Feng was under scrutiny because she traveled between the U.S. and Ürümqi and spoke good Uyghur, and because of her work at the folk research center and with its founder Rahile Dawut. A celebrated academic, Dawut collected ethnographic data, including folktales and oral literature in southern Xinjiang and information on Sufi Islamic practices. Dawut disappeared in December 2017 and is believed to be in detention.
> The drive for “backflow prevention” is also reflected in the identification of those who leave China as security threats. One report from Saimachang, a Uyghur stronghold in the historic center of Ürümqi, discusses former residents who have gone abroad and applied for political asylum as terrorists, corroborating reports that Uyghurs are monitored outside of China.
> “It’s really clear evidence that charges of terrorism or extremism don’t meet international standards of terrorism or extremism,” said Byler. “Applying for political asylum is not a sign of terrorism by most definitions, but in this context it is.” This also demonstrates the amount of detailed information Chinese authorities keep about Uyghurs abroad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abduweli Ayup, a Uyghur, linguist and activist at his home in Bergen, Norway on January 21, 2021.
> 
> Photo: Melanie Burford for The Intercept
> Ayup has experience with this sort of monitoring. While in Kashgar, Ayup operated a Uyghur-language kindergarten and promoted Uyghur-language education. He fled China after 15 months of detention, during which he said he was interrogated and tortured. After leaving, Ayup said at one point he joined a WeChat group for the Chinese embassy. “When I went to the Chinese embassy, they asked me to join their WeChat group, and when I joined, a Chinese spy in Ürümqi found me; he talked to me and he threatened me,” he said.
> Even holding a passport is considered suspicious. Documents in the database indicate Uyghur passport holders are checked on by authorities more frequently than those without passports.
> Indeed, any knowledge of life outside of Xinjiang can be flagged as suspicious. For example, police in Weihuliang took note in one weekly report, among “people who need special attention,” of four people who had traveled to Beijing “to reflect local issues.” “The rest have never left the region, so they’re seen as safer,” Byler said.
> Even phone calls or text chats involving outside countries invite scrutiny from authorities in Xinjiang. In Tianshan, the historic and majority-Uyghur center of Ürümqi, authorities reported sending a professional driver to re-education following an unusual phone call to a “key country.” Zenz believes the “key country” is one in a group of 26 largely Muslim “focus” countries watched by authorities. Xinjiang authorities have targeted people with connections to these countries for interrogation, detention and even imprisonment, according to a report by Human Rights Watch. The countries include Afghanistan, Algeria, Azerbaijan, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Libya, Malaysia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Thailand, Turkey, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, and Yemen.
> https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20466441-document-17
> The database also shows increased use of artificial intelligence, coupled with human intelligence, in directing surveillance in recent years. Documents from authorities in the Ürümqi districts of Tianshan and Shuimogou show IJOP sending push notifications directing investigations by local police. In 2018, one police precinct alone received 40 such notifications, according to one document.
> While news reports in recent years have depicted Chinese police automation systems like IJOP as rudimentary, relying heavily on human intelligence, evidence in the database indicates use of machine-learning technology is growing, said Byler, who received his Ph.D. in Uyghur technopolitics in Chinese cities of Central Asia.
> 
> 
> 
> A police smartphone app used in Ürümqi during a police stop or at a checkpoint shows facial recognition results, along with information about the top matches from police records. On the left, five possible matches are shown, with the top match rated 95.58 percent likely correct. Screenshots: Obtained by The Intercept
> 
> 1Search result
> 2Name
> 3Sex: Male
> 4ID number
> 5Identity characteristics
> 6Process result
> 7Face database: Long-term residents
> 8Note
> 9Person details
> 10Date of Birth
> 11National ID number
> 12Identity: Border control subject of “backflow prevention.” (Indicates the person was flagged as part of an initiative to curb the influx of dangerous ideas from foreign countries.)
> 13Process: Arrest immediately if it’s the person, otherwise collect information.
> “What your data shows is that it’s beginning to automate in some ways, especially around face surveillance,” Byler said. “If they’re using 900 checkpoint [scans] around face surveillance, they are using AI to a significant extent now,” he added, referring to the 935 facial scans in one week in Qidaowan Precinct.
> Documents show police are also adding into IJOP a significant amount of checkpoint data, including phone downloads from anti-terrorism swords. Documents from 2018 and 2019 show mounting push notifications from IJOP. “It’s clear that that system is beginning to alert them and direct their policing in new ways, and so it is starting to come online,” said Byler.
> The documents also make clear the extent to which authorities try to assess the psychology of people under suspicion, with a keen eye in particular toward loyalty and even fervor. This is exhibited at so-called flag-raising ceremonies: community events in which participants proclaim their loyalty to China and the ruling regime. Documents show that these events are extensively monitored by police and their proxies. Authorities watch not just former detainees but their relatives as well, to confirm they are participating and to determine how passionate they are about doing so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A security officer looks on as a woman passes through a checkpoint, equipped with a metal detector and facial recognition technology, to enter the main bazaar in Ürümqi, Xinjiang, on Nov. 6, 2018.
> 
> Photo: Bloomberg via Getty Images
> Authorities used participation in these weekly ceremonies as a way to monitor three people, likely Uyghurs, on a community watchlist, according to one of the documents. Participants are asked to perform a vow of loyalty involving the phrase “Voice your opinion, raise your sword” (or “Show your voice, show your sword”). If their participation is not wholehearted and patriotic, employers and others inform on them to police, Byler said. Also scrutinized at the ceremonies are “surplus laborers,” people on a coercive labor track that blends work on community projects with re-education. The surplus labor program has ramped up sharply over the last four years.
> 
> Documents show that the police officers and neighbors doing this monitoring at flag-raising ceremonies are also making recommendations about who should be sent to re-education camps.
> Although China has insisted its policing in Xinjiang is directed at stopping terrorism and extremism rather than persecuting the practice of any religion, the database confirms and details how surveillance homes in on many common expressions of Islamic faith, and even on curiosity about the religion, leading in many cases to investigations. The government considers it a potential sign of religious extremism to grow a beard, have a prayer rug, own Uyghur books, or even quit smoking or drinking.
> Surveillance directed at Islamic practice in the region also involves watching mosques. Authorities surveil mosque attendance, tally which worshippers are migrants and which are residents, and monitor whether prayers are conducted in an orderly way, according to police reports in the database.
> Ayup said mosques have cameras inside too, and people are surveilled for the way in which they pray.
> “If people use a different style of praying … the camera takes a picture,” he said, adding that a friend was arrested for this. Ayup said that some Uyghurs pray in very old styles, and some use new styles. “In the Chinese government’s eyes, the new style is threatening, is extremism,” he said.
> Even the use of natural gas in a neighborhood mosque was monitored, according to a document from Quingcui, a community in the Liudaowan neighborhood in the district of Shuimogou.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Security cameras are seen on a street in Ürümqi, the capital of western China’s Xinjiang region, on July 2, 2010.
> 
> Photo: Peter Parks/AFP via Getty Images
> *CITIZENS INTEGRATED INTO SYSTEM OF “HYPERPOLICING”*
> The relentless surveillance in Xinjiang has been the best understood component of the repressive environment in the region. More difficult to study and understand, particularly for human rights groups abroad, has been how and to what extent it drives enforcement. As it turns out, the intensity of policing in Xinjiang matches the hyperaggression of the surveillance: closely integrated and every bit as pervasive. The database obtained by The Intercept reveals evidence of a deeply invasive police state, concerned with people’s thoughts and enthusiasms, entering their homes, interfering with their daily movements, and even seeking out crimes in activities perfectly legal at the time they were undertaken. Authorities in the region direct investigations and other police work using an approach one expert, after examining portions of the database, described as “hyperpolicing,” cracking down on any aberrant behavior. The tactics used are all-encompassing, involving civilian brigades, home visits, and frequent checkpoints. As extensive as this work is, it is also conducted in a way that targets people according to perceived danger. Minorities of all sorts — be they linguistic, religious, or ethnic — are disproportionately patrolled.
> Discrimination against so-called ethnic-language people, or Muslim minorities with their own languages, is a key component of policing in Xinjiang.
> “Hyperpolicing” in Ürümqi:
> 
> A wide range of activities and behaviors among Muslim minorities has been considered criminal, even if they were legal at the time of the incident.
> Vigorous policing of mosques, including tight regulation of who can enter and observation of how congregants pray, with the goal of lowering attendance.
> Other examples of hyperpolicing: watching people’s online behavior, requiring knives in restaurants to be kept on chains, regular home visits to inspect for religious items like prayer mats and books.
> Community informants received extensive guidance on what kind of intelligence to feed to police.
> Many detainees and former detainees are referred to as “three-category people.” The label, applied very liberally, refers to purported extremists and terrorists of three levels of severity, ranked according to the government’s perception of their mindset and potential to cause harm. Relatives of detainees and former detainees are also labeled, ranked, and tracked by police. Another system categorizes people as trustworthy, normal, or untrustworthy.
> Police categories and rankings implicitly draw attention to minority groups, but in some contexts, this focus is made explicit. For example, minutes from the community stability meetings show that these meetings specifically put a focus on “ethnic-language people,” who are under stronger surveillance than Chinese-speaking Hui Muslims. The meetings also focus on relatives of primarily Uyghur detainees.
> Uyghurs are also policed in their practice of Islam. Documents show that police at times conduct security checks on everyone attending a given mosque.
> Indeed, the government tightly controls who is allowed into mosques. One police document detailed an incident in which three students tried to go to a funeral for a friend’s father at a mosque. As Byler described it, the three students “were just hanging around the entrance trying to find a way to walk in because they had to scan their ID cards to go inside, but they were worried that [the front gate checkpoint] would contact the police and they didn’t know what to do.” The police questioned the students, held them for hours, and put them on a watchlist at school, “even though they explained everything they were trying to do,” Byler said.
> More recent reports indicate that authorities set a goal of lowering mosque attendance and met it. Many police documents mention that mosque attendance is lower, and some explicitly describe this as indicating success. One report indicated that at one mosque, total visits in a four-month period declined by 80,000, compared to the same period in the prior year: more than a 96 percent decrease. This appears to be partly due to the departure of an imam and temporary closure of the mosque, but the report states that “there has been a drastic lowering of religious practitioners” over two years. It adds that this is partly because visitors left the city, were sent to camps, or were afraid to practice Islam.
> https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20466261-document-24
> Mosque activity that the Chinese government views as signs of extremism, said Ayup, can include praying without a Uyghur doppa, wearing perfume in the mosque, or even being relaxed while praying. Anybody who doesn’t praise the Chinese Communist Party after their prayer is also considered suspicious, he said.
> 
> In police notes, Byler said, “it’s interesting that they’re describing citizens as enemies, and it makes it clear that they see this as a sort of counterinsurgency, when really they’re just trying to detect who practices Islam or not.”
> Notes from a police station in Weihuliang describe a “large-scale investigation … focused on areas where migrant populations congregate,” concentrating on people from predominately Uyghur southern Xinjiang. The notes said that in one week, police had registered 605 people from southern Xinjiang, investigating 383 of them and people they lived with. In the same sweeps, authorities inspected 367 phones and nine computers.
> Xinjiang authorities’ policing of Islam is particularly zealous in its hunt for “wild imams” or “illegal preaching.” The terms refer to Islamic preachers whose work is not sanctioned by the Chinese government; rights groups have said Chinese authorities draw this legal line arbitrarily, to serve political needs. These imams can be prosecuted for sermons delivered either online and in mosques.
> The Weihuliang police station notes list 60 people involved in so-called illegal preaching, 50 of whom are in custody. The same document said that “illegal preaching” in the WeChat group “Group 1 teach (Qur’an ABCs)” led to the capture of a 41-year-old Hui woman and the administrative detention of a 62-year-old Hui man.
> More recent documents, from 2017 through 2019, reflect mounting difficulty by the police in continuing to find violations to enforce and people to place in detention or re-education camps. That’s because in 2017, the first wave of detentions swept Xinjiang, leading to the expulsion of a large portion of the population from Ürümqi. Xinjiang party leader Chen Quanguo told officials to “round up everyone who should be rounded up,” extending a hard-line approach Chinese President Xi Jinping began organizing after a mass stabbing at a train station and an attack on an outdoor market with cars and explosives, both in 2014.
> Police documents from this period, after the first wave of repression, reflect an intent to hunt down suspicious behavior of any kind.
> 
> 
> “The system is set up in a way that’s producing hyperpolicing,” Byler said, “where any strange or any kind of aberrant behavior is reported, and if you’re a minority, you’re ‘ethnic,’ which is how they refer to Uyghurs and Kazakhs, then you’re very susceptible to this kind of stuff and you’re being policed on a micro level, both by human policing and by the application of the technology to you and your life.”
> In some instances, people are being persecuted for violating laws before the laws were even instituted.
> One police document describes how Hui women were detained because of evidence they had studied the Quran in an online group — which was legal at the time they did it but became illegal prior to their detention. They had been inactive in the group for at least a year before they were detained.
> Such uncertainty about laws in Xinjiang, and when one might run afoul of police, echoes Ayup’s experience. “After people get arrested, then they will find out that ‘Oh, that [activity] is dangerous,’” he explained.
> Wang said the hyperpolicing has become more pervasive over time.
> “It’s basically a crackdown of everything,” Wang said, spreading from repression of Islamic practices to drug abuse and mental illness. “They just want to make sure they have such control over that region, general overall control.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People walk on the street of Xinjiang International Grand Bazaar on June 25, 2020, in Ürümqi.
> 
> Photo: David Liu/Getty Images
> One illustration of how policing became increasingly aggressive and ubiquitous in Xinjiang is a police report discussing how one knife at a dumpling shop was not chained to a secure post, as per regulation. The report said the violation needed to be rectified within a day. Laws in Xinjiang require not only the chaining of knives, the document indicated, but that knives also have QR codes identifying their owners. “It’s just a way of showing how tightly everything is controlled, that even knives that are used in cooking have to be thought of as potential weapons,” said Byler.
> To maintain the maximal vigilance entailed in “hyperpolicing,” authorities in Xinjiang enlisted ordinary citizens to inform on one another — not unheard of in China but practiced in the region more extensively, particularly against Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities.
> Helping to enable this, citizens are rewarded for reporting on one another. The documents in the database include some details on this previously reported fact. Informants are rewarded for passing along information, but people are also rewarded for more specific actions. Linking their WeChat account, passing a verification, and posting an image can all result in a cash reward. All of this is tracked and reflected in the database.
> 
> One document, a public announcement from police, indicates that police and auxiliaries faced pressure to submit large quantities of intelligence to authorities. It chastised citizens in the high-tech zone within Ürümqi’s Xinshi district for sending in tips that are “filler created just to make report numbers seem large, and cannot be used, and occupy a large amount of manpower and time to process.” For example, “residents reported that there are often kids urinating in the elevator” of one building. Also: “A few citizens reported that they are scammed while buying crabs or mooncakes online. Quantities lost are generally not big.”
> The announcement then went on to extensively detail 10 “categories of intelligence that are forbidden to report,” including tips having nothing to do with “policy about anti-terrorism, minority policy,” or with something called the “Xinjiang Management Agenda,” or with “policies that benefits citizens.”
> Essentially, as Byler put it, authorities “were like, ‘That’s not the intelligence we want, we want intelligence about the Muslims.’”
> This type of policing, bubbling up from the grassroots of the populace, “is about recruiting and considering ordinary people as part of these surveillance teams,” Wang said. “And in that way, it spells out quite an interesting philosophy of surveillance and society and engineering that I don’t think a lot of people understand outside of China.”
> When Ayup lived in Xinjiang, he said, groups of 10 families were required to report somebody once a week in a feedback box, which existed before the app. “The problem is, if you cannot find something to write, you have to make it up to avoid being sent to the camps and to the center, so it’s obligatory. That’s the problem, but you cannot blame someone who reports because it’s his or her obligation,” he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Public Safety App is one way authorities in Xinjiang draw ordinary citizens into the work of alerting, monitoring, and law enforcement.
> 
> Chart: Soohee Cho/The Intercept
> In addition to drafting ordinary citizens individually to report on neighbors, authorities in Xinjiang also organized them through more formal community groups known as “safety units” or “brigades.” These units are segmented into groups of 10, according to documents in the database. For example, 10 households or 10 businesses might be organized as a brigade, with one volunteer from each group responding to calls like an emergency medical technician and doing drills in opposition to “terrorism.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Each business in a community “safety unit” must install a “one-click police alert button,” according to documents in the database. Once triggered, the auxiliary police and other businesses in the “safety unit” are required to show up within two minutes.
> 
> Photo: Obtained by The Intercept
> The safety brigades hark back to a historical Chinese tradition known as the Baojia system, in which 10 households formed a bao (or later a jia, 10 of which in turn formed a bao). This fractal structure formed a social safety system and is heavily associated with policing and the militarization of the population.
> In modern times, similar systems have been branded as “grid management.” Several years ago, the Chinese government rolled out grid management nationwide; the density of citizen watch units in Xinjiang, however, has remained much higher than in other parts of the country, and safety units there are used for different purposes.
> The Xinjiang safety units have not been seen in previous government documents, Byler said, but are pretty obvious if you’re in the region, where you’ll see drills, people marching in formation, and business owners wearing red armbands to show their affiliation.
> “It’s the militarization of the population as a whole,” Byler said. “To this point we haven’t had a full description of what it’s supposed to do.”
> Hyperpolicing also reaches into people’s homes through regular visits by authorities; those deemed at risk for extremist, terrorist, or separatist influence receive frequent visits. This typically means Uyghurs, dissidents, and those who have gone through re-education camps, as well as anyone related to any of those people.
> Minutes from community stability meetings give a granular look at the type of information recorded in these home visits. They include professions, place of employment, former jobs, relatives (and relatives’ national ID numbers), travel, location of children, schools the children are attending, and what the community is still monitoring.
> Some residents are discussed as being monitored or controlled by the community; that means a neighborhood watch unit is assigned to monitor them. This can include visits as often as every day, or once or twice a week, from one or more cadre members living in close proximity.
> Some relatives of detainees are visited daily by local police. Even those considered trustworthy are visited, “to show them warmth and pull them into the Chinese patriotic fold,” as Byler put it. “It’s like winning hearts and minds.”
> In one account from a police document, an older woman whose son was held by authorities befriended a police officer who visited her. Police claimed that the woman had become like a mother to the officer. She treated him like her son and opened up about all of her actual son’s activities. She was the ideal type of person who has been re-educated through the system, the document indicated.
> Some home visits are for inspection purposes, to find religious items. Documents show police searching for religious books and removing prayer mats and even, as mentioned in a July 2018 police document, a picture of the hajj, the Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca, Saudi Arabia. The documents indicate this effort originates from 2018 and is connected to a government initiative known as the “three cleanups” to encourage people to purge material considered extremist from their homes. “This is one of the first times I’ve seen that mentioned explicitly, that they’re going through people’s homes,” Byler said.
> A document from October 2018 described how these home inspections unfold:
> 
> The authorities also monitor phone calls between detainees and their family members back home. One document detailed such a call that lasted four minutes and 20 seconds, describing the contents of the conversation and how grateful the relatives were that the government allowed it. “It’s an inflection point documenting how people are receiving the re-education,” Byler explained. “If they cry or act angry that their relative can’t be released, that’s a sign that the re-education hasn’t been received.”
> In many cases, relatives were asked to record their call and share it with the police, or they were interviewed immediately after to see how they were doing after the call.
> Citizens in Xinjiang are also routinely stopped outside their homes by authorities. The database contains records from more than two million checkpoint stops in Ürümqi (population 3.5 million) and the surrounding area in a two-year period. It includes a list of nearly three dozen categories of people to stop, such as “intelligence national security important person.” When a person is stopped at a checkpoint, they go through an ID check, typically including processing via facial recognition. Facial recognition is sometimes performed through automatic scanning by a fixed surveillance camera. It can also be performed through a manual scan using a smartphone camera; these are often used on people deemed to need the extra scrutiny of an up-close facial scan, for example, because they lack ID. If a person’s face is displayed with a yellow, orange, or red indicator on a computer, showing the system has deemed them suspicious or criminal, they are questioned and may be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> Four people flagged with various colored “inspection levels” based on authorities’ perception of how dangerous they are. Screenshots: Obtained by The Intercept
> 
> 1ID
> 2Type: People inspection
> 3Level: Released
> 4Result: All seems normal
> 5Type: Verify national ID
> 6Level
> 7Inspection result: Drug-related person nationwide. Process method: Special inspection, collect information.
> 8Inspection type: Stability-related inspection
> 9Inspection level: Released
> 10Inspection result: Subject to stability-related investigation. Work process: Collect information, check suspicion, report to precinct of original residency [their Hukou].
> 11Result: Person incarcerated for July 5 riot [reference to 2009 Uyghur-Han civil unrest]. Process: Transfer to the sub-bureau of inspection location and detain.
> Categories of people often stopped at checkpoints include relatives of offenders and relatives of detainees.
> Data retained from these stops include photos of those stopped, the latitude and longitude of the stop, the name of the collection point, vehicle and license plate if applicable, the search time, the search level, whether the person was released, and the result of the search. Those who were stopped are categorized in the database as people who were immediately arrested, those who were returned to their original residence, psychiatric patients, relatives of detainees, relatives of offenders, and individuals who were listed as participants of the July 2009 Ürümqi riots, in which Uyghur–Han violence at a toy factory in southeast China led to a broader outbreak of civil unrest involving attacks against largely ethnically Han residents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Security cameras are installed above the perimeter fence of what is officially known as a “vocational skills education center” in Dabancheng, Xinjiang, on Sept. 4, 2018. This center, situated between the region’s capital Ürümqi and tourist spot Turpan, is among the largest known ones.
> 
> Photo: Thomas Peter/Reuters
> *A DETENTION SYSTEM BUILT ON UNCERTAINTY AND INCONSISTENCIES*
> Beyond surveillance and policing, the database provides a close-up look at how various forms of incarceration are used to control the population, particularly minority groups and perceived dissidents in Xinjiang. It reveals a system moving to adapt its rhetoric and policies to a reality in which the length of incarceration, even under the guise of “training” or “re-education,” is often so uncertain that relatives of the imprisoned are grateful when detainees are granted fixed-term sentences.
> Documents illustrate Xinjiang’s complex system of prison-like facilities, which roughly speaking break down into four categories: those for temporary detention; “re-education”; a more lenient form of re-education referred to as “vocational training”; and long-term prison.
> Detention in Ürümqi:
> 
> Complex incarceration system in Xinjiang of temporary detention, re-education camps, “vocational training,” and long-term imprisonment.
> Some evidence indicates that rates of detention are higher by a “shocking” degree than previously known, compared to less harsh forms of incarceration like re-education.
> Detention centers, which are said to have the harshest conditions and worst crowding, are essentially interrogation and holding facilities. People are kept there while waiting for an investigation to be completed. Re-education facilities are officially known as “transformation through education” camps. They practice “highly coercive brainwashing” in the words of Zenz, who has investigated the camps using government documents. The training centers are purportedly intended to transmit vocational and other skills but are clearly prison-like, with barbed wire, high walls, watchtowers, and internal camera systems.
> It is common for a given citizen to travel through multiple types of incarceration in a sort of pipeline fashion. One police document from the Tianshan district of Ürümqi describes a mother involved in a “national security incident” who was put into re-education, then a vocational training school.
> The re-education was conducted through the public security bureau’s internal security division, a domestic security force that investigates transnational crime. It is “a very tough unit,” often used against dissidents, said Zenz. “I totally expect that to be a place where torture is practiced, without knowing it for sure,” he added.
> Authorities then sent the mother to a vocational training center, which would have been “still plenty unpleasant and coercive,” said Zenz, but “the most lenient” and eventually leading to release into forced labor. “In the police state, it’s the most desirable place to be because you’ll eventually get out,” he said. (These types of so-called vocational training centers are distinct from real vocational training centers existing in China that do not involve forced stays where people are removed from their families and subject to indoctrination.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nejmiddin Qarluq, an ethnic Uyghur and political activist who fled China and was given asylum in Belgium, pictured at his new home in Brussels on Jan. 21, 2021.
> 
> Photo: Johanna de Tessieres for The Intercept
> Nejmiddin Qarluq, a Uyghur who obtained asylum in Belgium in 2017, said the reason for detention isn’t always clear, since people are often arrested casually and have their property confiscated. When Qarluq was 6 years old, his father was released from prison. He himself was sentenced to three years in prison, then served another five-and-a-half-year term. One of his brothers was sentenced to life imprisonment in 1996, he said, and another brother was sentenced to six and a half years and is still in prison. His brother, ex-wife, and sister were locked up in an education camp in 2018.
> Because Qarluq was sentenced when he was 14, he said his entire life after he was released was under Chinese Communist Party police supervision, and he wasn’t ever able to feel safe at all. And, he said, there is no freedom or privacy — even privacy of thought — beyond the country’s control. “I am the lucky one who got the chance to flee the country,” he said.
> The database contains evidence that rates of detention, compared to re-education, may be significantly higher than outside observers believed. That would mean Uyghurs and others in the system were enduring significantly harsher conditions while incarcerated.
> A police report from Weihuliang Precinct provides information on the number of people held throughout Shuimogou, one of seven districts in Ürümqi, in detention and re-education. At the time, in February 2018, the district had 803 people in re-education and almost as many, around 787, in detention. In Weihuliang specifically, the ratio of people in detention was even higher: 348 detained versus 184 in re-education.
> Byler called this “a really shocking proportion, if we take this to be normative across the region.”
> “That’s showing us that almost half of the people detained are not even in the re-education camp system yet, they’re just being processed,” Byler added. “Conditions in these spaces are really bad. If what these reports are telling us are true, that these larger numbers are being held in these spaces, it is really concerning.”
> Byler described detention as often “very crowded, from what we’ve heard from people, and the conditions in them are really bad, because of the overcrowding. … People sometimes, because of the crowding, aren’t able to sleep at the same time because they can’t all fit on the bed (actually a platform with a wooden top called a ‘kang’) at the same time.” Cameras in the cell watch constantly, and lights remain on all night.
> Re-education, in comparison, offers somewhat better conditions, including larger inner courtyards for marching or teaching, and more importantly, the hope of potentially quick release — whenever “transformative” education is complete. But documents from the database indicate this may be, at least in some cases, a false idea. In over 100 cases, they discuss fixed-length sentences for re-education, such as two-year or three-year terms.
> https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20466272-document-11
> The sentences appear to be assigned to people in the vocational form of re-education, often after they have been in incarcerated for an extended period of time. They come, documents show, through a program called “Two Inform, One Advocate,” with “inform” apparently referring to information about extremism (as provided in re-education) and “advocate” referring to advocacy of a policy to provide sentences.
> Under this system, relatives and cadre members typically meet the person in re-education and a judge issues a “pre-judgment” and “pre-sentence,” usually of two to four years in documents from the database. Sometimes, certain requirements come along with the sentence, such as acquiring Chinese language skills. An October 2018 report stated that “some relatives of three-category people are very happy after they learned about ‘Two Inform, One Advocate’ work; because of this, at least they know how long it would take for their relatives to come out, and they can arrange many business-related things beforehand.”
> In one of many examples of this policy in the database, from a November 2018 report, a Uyghur woman traveled to Daban City Vocational Center to receive a verdict with her brother:
> https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20466400-document-26
> “We’ve never heard of people getting sentences for re-education,” said Byler. “They tell you that you have to earn points to be released, and so you’re supposed to try really hard to get re-educated, but now they’re saying actually that these people have been given a sentence, their course of re-education will take three years or what have you. So it’s actually like a prison term. That’s one of the tyrannies of the system, is that once you’re in the camps, you’ll never know when you’ll be released.”
> Re-education also seems to be closed off as an option for some of the most heavily persecuted activities. The Weihuliang police station notes that homed in on “illegal preachers,” listing 50 in detention, said only two were in re-education.
> Much of Zenz’s work has focused specifically on internment camps officially portrayed as “vocational skills education training centers” (_zhiye jineng jiaoyu peixun zhongxin_). The government positions them as a more benign alternative to prosecution for those who have committed minor offenses, but they are often cover for detention on minor grounds. Despite the emphasis on the word “training,” the facilities can practice coercive indoctrination just as re-education centers do.
> Government documents previously obtained by Zenz had described the re-education as using, in Zenz’s recounting, “assault-style transformation through education” (_jiaoyu zhuanhua gongjian_) to “ensure that results are achieved” on those who have “a vague understanding, negative attitudes, or even show resistance.”
> The impact of widespread detention is not limited to those who are in prison. One document indicates 326 children in one of the seven districts in Ürümqi have one or both parents in detention. The population of the district was around 43,730, according to 2010 government figures, but only around 12 percent of the population in Ürümqi are Uyghur. “If you take the adult population of that [ethnic group] and note that 326 students have one or two parents in detention, that appears to be quite substantial,” said Zenz.
> 
> *Documents:* The documents published with the story are available here.


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## Beast

fallstuff said:


> View attachment 712194
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> View attachment 712195


How credible is this? If one found to have extremist thought or terror related and send to re-education system or rehabilitation. May I know whats wrong with it? All around the world, all police forces and countries used re education camp but suddenly, only China is single out?
































https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLF9k_-Nz-U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvh_-pwO_nM


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## fallstuff

Beast said:


> How credible is this? If one found to have extremist thought or terror related and send to re-education system or rehabilitation. May I know whats wrong with it? All around the world, all police forces and countries used re education camp but suddenly, only China is single out?
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> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLF9k_-Nz-U
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> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvh_-pwO_nM



Your argument is fine for people who have committed terrorism, but the issue is sending people to camps for having an app, practicing religion, receiving text, or getting phone calls from people they don't even know is way too much to put up with.
The issue is most of these people have no criminal record, but being punished for just living everyday life in their own way.
There are Han people in China who would do stuff to get more social credits ( nothing wrong with that), so there are folks in Xinjiang who are more religious for one reason or another. This may sound ridiculous to you but that is his faith.

I get 2 to 3 calls or text a day from people I don't know. How am I responsible for those calls or texts ?

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## Chhatrapati

Exports of Fevicol from India is going to increase to our neighbours.


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## fallstuff

Beast said:


> Why avoid report about the Black agenda of Xinjiang? Too embarrass to talk about? Or becos you are selective? Please reply regard to that report about China. Do you have an agenda against China? Becos it say good about China and suddenly, you believe its not credible, is it?











My Trip to China Exposed the Shameful Lies Peddled by the American Empire | Black Agenda Report


China is a land of bullet trains and rising standards of living, in contrast to the decay of the imperial center, the United States. “Pollution and income and wealth inequality remains problems for ‘socialism with Chinese characteristics.’”




blackagendareport.com





Thank you. Its an informative article. 

Do you have article about how the CCP views capital as China Government has a strong hold on the banking and capital ?


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## Beast

fallstuff said:


> My Trip to China Exposed the Shameful Lies Peddled by the American Empire | Black Agenda Report
> 
> 
> China is a land of bullet trains and rising standards of living, in contrast to the decay of the imperial center, the United States. “Pollution and income and wealth inequality remains problems for ‘socialism with Chinese characteristics.’”
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> Thank you. Its an informative article.
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> Do you have article about how the CCP views capital as China Government has a strong hold on the banking and capital ?


China welcome any capital inflow Into China as long as it's all legal transaction. All kind of legal investment are protected. Banking and capital are still need to be regulate properly as we do not wish a 2008 US economic melt down happened in China as US government gives a freehand to private equity who simply only care profit at expense of vulnerable investor.

This article is short but a good summary of most point.









Shedding light on China’s capital inflows - OMFIF


Numbers offer insights into Chinese authorities’ strategy




www.omfif.org

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## Leishangthem

Uyghur are a special snowflake that can't be monitored like every other ethnicity that being monitored on the face of the earth by the govs of the world!!!!


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## fallstuff

Beast said:


> China welcome any capital inflow Into China as long as it's all legal transaction. All kind of legal investment are protected. Banking and capital are still need to be regulate properly as we do not wish a 2008 US economic melt down happened in China as US government gives a freehand to private equity who simply only care profit at expense of vulnerable investor.
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> Shedding light on China’s capital inflows - OMFIF
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> www.omfif.org



My question is more about Capital as explained by Marx Engels in Das Capital. How CCP views capital in light of that.


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## striver44

*By Matthew Hill, David Campanale and Joel Gunter*
BBC News

Published9 hours ago

*Women in China's "re-education" camps for Uighurs have been systematically raped, sexually abused, and tortured, according to detailed new accounts obtained by the BBC.
You may find some of the details in this story distressing.*





*The men always wore masks, Tursunay Ziawudun said, even though there was no pandemic then.*
They wore suits, she said, not police uniforms.
Sometime after midnight, they came to the cells to select the women they wanted and took them down the corridor to a "black room", where there were no surveillance cameras.
Several nights, Ziawudun said, they took her.

"Perhaps this is the most unforgettable scar on me forever," she said.
"I don't even want these words to spill from my mouth."


Tursunay Ziawudun spent nine months inside China's vast and secretive system of internment camps in the Xinjiang region. According to independent estimates, more than a million men and women have been detained in the sprawling network of camps, which China says exist for the "re-education" of the Uighurs and other minorities.
Human rights groups say the Chinese government has gradually stripped away the religious and other freedoms of the Uighurs, culminating in an oppressive system of mass surveillance, detention, indoctrination, and even forced sterilisation.
The policy flows from China's President, Xi Jinping, who visited Xinjiang in 2014 in the wake of a terror attack by Uighur separatists. Shortly after, according to documents leaked to the New York Times, he directed local officials to respond with "absolutely no mercy". The US government said last month that China's actions since amounted to a genocide. China says reports of mass detention and forced sterilisation are "lies and absurd allegations".
First-hand accounts from inside the internment camps are rare, but several former detainees and a guard have told the BBC they experienced or saw evidence of an organised system of mass rape, sexual abuse and torture.

Tursunay Ziawudun, who fled Xinjiang after her release and is now in the US, said women were removed from the cells "every night" and raped by one or more masked Chinese men. She said she was tortured and later gang-raped on three occasions, each time by two or three men.
Ziawudun has spoken to the media before, but only from Kazakhstan, where she "lived in constant fear of being sent back to China", she said. She said she believed that if she revealed the extent of the sexual abuse she had experienced and seen, and was returned to Xinjiang, she would be punished more harshly than before. And she was ashamed, she said.


It is impossible to verify Ziawudun's account completely because of the severe restrictions China places on reporters in the country, but travel documents and immigration records she provided to the BBC corroborate the timeline of her story. Her descriptions of the camp in Xinyuan county - known in Uighur as Kunes county - match satellite imagery analysed by the BBC, and her descriptions of daily life inside the camp, as well as the nature and methods of the abuse, correspond with other accounts from former detainees.
Internal documents from the Kunes county justice system from 2017 and 2018, provided to the BBC by Adrian Zenz, a leading expert on China's policies in Xinjiang, detail planning and spending for "transformation through education" of "key groups" - a common euphemism in China for the indoctrination of the Uighurs. In one Kunes document, the "education" process is described as "washing brains, cleansing hearts, strengthening righteousness and eliminating evil".
The BBC also interviewed a Kazakh woman from Xinjiang who was detained for 18 months in the camp system, who said she was forced to strip Uighur women naked and handcuff them, before leaving them alone with Chinese men. Afterwards, she cleaned the rooms, she said.
"My job was to remove their clothes above the waist and handcuff them so they cannot move," said Gulzira Auelkhan, crossing her wrists behind her head to demonstrate. "Then I would leave the women in the room and a man would enter - some Chinese man from outside or policeman. I sat silently next to the door, and when the man left the room I took the woman for a shower."

The Chinese men "would pay money to have their pick of the prettiest young inmates", she said.
Some former detainees of the camps have described being forced to assist guards or face punishment. Auelkhan said she was powerless to resist or intervene.
Asked if there was a system of organised rape, she said: "Yes, rape."
"They forced me to go into that room," she said. "They forced me to take off those women's clothes and to restrain their hands and leave the room."
Some of the women who were taken away from the cells at night were never returned, Ziawudun said. Those who were brought back were threatened against telling others in the cell what had happened to them.
"You can't tell anyone what happened, you can only lie down quietly," she said. "It is designed to destroy everyone's spirit."
Mr Zenz told the BBC that the testimony gathered for this story was "some of the most horrendous evidence I have seen since the atrocity began".
"This confirms the very worst of what we have heard before," he said. "It provides authoritative and detailed evidence of sexual abuse and torture at a level clearly greater than what we had assumed."


The Uighurs are a mostly Muslim Turkic minority group that number about 11 million in Xinjiang in north-western China. The region borders Kazakhstan and is also home to ethnic Kazakhs. Ziawudun, who is 42, is Uighur. Her husband is a Kazakh.
The couple returned to Xinjiang in late 2016 after a five-year stay in Kazakhstan, and were interrogated on arrival and had their passports confiscated, Ziawudun said. A few months later, she was told by police to attend a meeting alongside other Uighurs and Kazakhs and the group was rounded up and detained.
Her first stint in detention was comparatively easy, she said, with decent food and access to her phone. After a month she developed stomach ulcers and was released. Her husband's passport was returned and he went back to Kazakhstan to work, but authorities kept Ziawudun's, trapping her in Xinjiang. Reports suggest China has purposefully kept behind and interned relatives to discourage those who leave from speaking out. On 9 March 2018, with her husband still in Kazakhstan, Ziawudun was instructed to report to a local police station, she said. She was told she needed "more education".
According to her account, Ziawudun was transported back to the same facility as her previous detention, in Kunes county, but the site had been significantly developed, she said. Buses were lined up outside offloading new detainees "non-stop".
The women had their jewellery confiscated. Ziawudun's earrings were yanked out, she said, causing her ears to bleed, and she was herded into a room with a group of women. Among them was an elderly woman who Ziawudun would later befriend.
The camp guards pulled off the woman's headscarf, Ziawudun said, and shouted at her for wearing a long dress - one of a list of religious expressions that became arrestable offences for Uighurs that year.
"They stripped everything off the elderly lady, leaving her with just her underwear. She was so embarrassed that she tried to cover herself with her arms," Ziawudun said.
"I cried so much watching the way they treated her. Her tears fell like rain."




Ziawudun identified this site - listed as a school - as the location where she was held. Satellite images from 2017 (left) and 2019 (right) show significant development typical of camps, with what look like dormitory and factory buildings


The women were told to hand over their shoes and any clothes with elastic or buttons, Ziawudun said, then taken to cellblocks - "similar to a small Chinese neighbourhood where there are rows of buildings".
Nothing much happened for the first month or two. They were forced to watch propaganda programmes in their cells and had their hair forcibly cut short.
Then police began interrogating Ziawudun about her absent husband, she said, knocking her on the floor when she resisted and kicking her in the abdomen.
"Police boots are very hard and heavy, so at first I thought he was beating me with something," she said. "Then I realised that he was trampling on my belly. I almost passed out - I felt a hot flush go through me."
A camp doctor told her she might have a blood clot. When her cellmates drew attention to the fact that she was bleeding, the guards "replied saying it is normal for women to bleed", she said.
According to Ziawudun, each cell was home to 14 women, with bunk beds, bars on the windows, a basin and a hole-in-the-floor-style toilet. When she first saw women being taken out of the cell at night, she didn't understand why, she said. She thought they were being moved elsewhere.







Then sometime in May 2018 - "I don't remember the exact date, because you don't remember the dates inside there" - Ziawudun and a cellmate, a woman in her twenties, were taken out at night and presented to a Chinese man in a mask, she said. Her cellmate was taken into a separate room.
"As soon as she went inside she started screaming," Ziawudun said. "I don't know how to explain to you, I thought they were torturing her. I never thought about them raping."
The woman who had brought them from the cells told the men about Ziawudun's recent bleeding.
"After the woman spoke about my condition, the Chinese man swore at her. The man with the mask said 'Take her to the dark room'.
"The woman took me to the room next to where the other girl had been taken in. They had an electric stick, I didn't know what it was, and it was pushed inside my genital tract, torturing me with an electric shock."
Ziawudun's torture that first night in the dark room eventually came to an end, she said, when the woman intervened again citing her medical condition, and she was returned to the cell.
About an hour later, her cellmate was brought back.
"The girl became completely different after that, she wouldn't speak to anyone, she sat quietly staring as if in a trance," Ziawudun said. "There were many people in those cells who lost their minds."







IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY
image captionGulzira Auelkhan, centre, at home in her village. She was forced to restrain women in the camps, she said




Alongside cells, another central feature of the camps is classrooms. Teachers have been drafted in to "re-educate" the detainees - a process activists say is designed to strip the Uighurs and other minorities of their culture, language and religion, and indoctrinate them into mainstream Chinese culture.
Qelbinur Sedik, an Uzbek woman from Xinjiang, was among the Chinese language teachers brought into the camps and coerced into giving lessons to the detainees. Sedik has since fled China and spoken publicly about her experience.
The women's camp was "tightly controlled", Sedik told the BBC. But she heard stories, she said - signs and rumours of rape. One day, Sedik cautiously approached a Chinese camp policewoman she knew.
"I asked her, 'I have been hearing some terrible stories about rape, do you know about it?' She said we should talk in the courtyard during lunch.
"So I went to the courtyard, where there were not many cameras. She said, 'Yes, the rape has become a culture. It is gang rape and the Chinese police not only rape them but also electrocute them. They are subject to horrific torture.'"
That night Sedik didn't sleep at all, she said. "I was thinking about my daughter who was studying abroad and I cried all night."







IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY IMAGES
image captionSayragul Sauytbay, a teacher, said she witnessed a harrowing rape. She was later accused of crossing illegally into Kazakhstan




In separate testimony to the Uyghur Human Rights Project, Sedik said she heard about an electrified stick being inserted into women to torture them - echoing the experience Ziawudun described.
There were "four kinds of electric shock", Sedik said - "the chair, the glove, the helmet, and anal rape with a stick".
"The screams echoed throughout the building," she said. "I could hear them during lunch and sometimes when I was in class."
Another teacher forced to work in the camps, Sayragul Sauytbay, told the BBC that "rape was common" and the guards "picked the girls and young women they wanted and took them away".
She described witnessing a harrowing public gang rape of a woman of just 20 or 21, who was brought before about 100 other detainees to make a forced confession.
"After that, in front of everyone, the police took turns to rape her," Sauytbay said.
"While carrying out this test, they watched people closely and picked out anyone who resisted, clenched their fists, closed their eyes, or looked away, and took them for punishment."
The young woman cried out for help, Sauytbay said.
"It was absolutely horrendous," she said. "I felt I had died. I was dead."








image captionZiawudun broke down in tears as she identified footage and images of the camps




In the camp in Kunes, Ziawudun's days drifted into weeks and then months. The detainees' hair was cut, they went to class, they underwent unexplained medical tests, took pills, and were forcibly injected every 15 days with a "vaccine" that brought on nausea and numbness.
Women were forcibly fitted with IUDs or sterilised, Ziawudun said, including a woman who was just about 20 years old. ("We begged them on her behalf," she said.) Forced sterilisation of Uighurs has been widespread in Xinjiang, according to a recent investigation by the Associated Press. The Chinese government told the BBC the allegations were "completely unfounded".
As well as the medical interventions, detainees in Ziawudun's camp spent hours singing patriotic Chinese songs and watching patriotic TV programmes about Chinese President Xi Jinping, she said.
"You forget to think about life outside the camp. I don't know if they brainwashed us or if it was the side effect of the injections and pills, but you can't think of anything beyond wishing you had a full stomach. The food deprivation is so severe."
Detainees had food withheld for infractions such as failing to accurately memorise passages from books about Xi Jinping, according to a former camp guard who spoke to the BBC via video link from a country outside China.
"Once we were taking the people arrested into the concentration camp, and I saw everyone being forced to memorise those books. They sit for hours trying to memorise the text, everyone had a book in their hands," he said.
Those who failed tests were forced to wear three different colours of clothing based on whether they had failed one, two, or three times, he said, and subjected to different levels of punishment accordingly, including food deprivation and beatings.
"I entered those camps. I took detainees into those camps," he said. "I saw those sick, miserable people. They definitely experienced various types of torture. I am sure about that."







IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY IMAGES
image captionAnalysts say the policy against the Uighurs flows directly from President Xi Jinping




It was not possible to independently verify the guard's testimony but he provided documents that appeared to corroborate a period of employment at a known camp. He agreed to speak on condition of anonymity.
The guard said he did not know anything about rape in the cell areas. Asked if the camp guards used electrocution, he said: "Yes. They do. They use those electrocuting instruments." After being tortured, detainees were forced to make confessions to a variety of perceived offences, according to the guard. "I have those confessions in my heart," he said.
President Xi looms large over the camps. His image and slogans adorn the walls; he is a focus of the programme of "re-education". Xi is the overall architect of the policy against the Uighurs, said Charles Parton, a former British diplomat in China and now senior associate fellow at the Royal United Services Institute.
"It is very centralised and it goes to the very top," Parton said. "There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that this is Xi Jinping's policy."
It was unlikely that Xi or other top party officials would have directed or authorised rape or torture, Parton said, but they would "certainly be aware of it".
"I think they prefer at the top just to turn a blind eye. The line has gone out to implement this policy with great sternness, and that is what is happening." That left "no real constraints", he said. "I just don't see what the perpetrators of these acts would have to hold them back."


According to Ziawudun's account, the perpetrators did not hold back.
"They don't only rape but also bite all over your body, you don't know if they are human or animal," she said, pressing a tissue to her eyes to stop her tears and pausing for a long time to collect herself.
"They didn't spare any part of the body, they bit everywhere leaving horrible marks. It was disgusting to look at.
"I've experienced that three times. And it is not just one person who torments you, not just one predator. Each time they were two or three men."
Later, a woman who slept near Ziawudun in the cell, who said she was detained for giving birth to too many children, disappeared for three days and when she returned her body was covered with the same marks, Ziawudun said.
"She couldn't say it. She wrapped her arms around my neck and sobbed continuously, but she said nothing."
The Chinese government did not respond directly to questions from the BBC about allegations of rape and torture. In a statement, a spokeswoman said the camps in Xinjiang were not detention camps but "vocational education and training centres".
"The Chinese government protects the rights and interests of all ethnic minorities equally," the spokeswoman said, adding that the government "attaches great importance to protecting women's rights".








image captionTursunay Ziawudun at home in the US with her landlady, who supports her




Ziawudun was released in December 2018 along with others who had spouses or relatives in Kazakhstan - an apparent policy shift she still doesn't fully understand.
The state returned her passport and she fled to Kazakhstan and then, with the support of the Uyghur Human Rights Project, to the US. She is applying to stay. She lives in a quiet suburb not far from Washington DC with a landlady from the local Uighur community. The two women cook together and take walks in the streets around the house. It's a slow, uneventful existence. Ziawudun keeps the lights low when she is in the house, because they shone brightly and constantly in the camp. A week after she arrived in the US, she had surgery to remove her womb - a consequence of being stamped on. "I have lost the chance to become a mother," she said. She wants her husband to join her in the US. For now, he is in Kazakhstan.
For a while after her release, before she could flee, Ziawudun waited in Xinjiang. She saw others who had been churned through the system and released. She saw the effect the policy was having on her people. The birth rate in Xinjiang has plummeted in the past few years, according to independent research - an effect analysts have described as "demographic genocide".
Many had turned to alcohol, Ziawudun said. Several times, she saw her former cellmate collapsed on the street, the young woman who was removed from the cell with her that first night, who she heard screaming in an adjacent room. The woman had been consumed by addiction, Ziawudun said - she was "like someone who simply existed, otherwise she was dead, completely finished by the rapes".
"They say people are released, but in my opinion everyone who leaves the camps is finished."
And that, she said, was the plan. The surveillance, the internment, the indoctrination, the dehumanisation, the sterilisation, the torture, the rape.
"Their goal is to destroy everyone," she said. "And everybody knows it."










'Their goal is to destroy everyone': Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape


In new testimony, former detainees of China's detention camps describe systematic rape and torture.



www.bbc.com


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## atan651




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## Type59

Wont be suprised if true. Human beings are capable of that. Even people that consider themselves educated.


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## Turingsage

There will be no pity or sympathy for these raped women. Millions in "reeducation" concentration camps. Thousands raped but as far Pakistan is concerned, these are not humans or muslims. As far as Pakistan is concerned China can do what it likes and makes sure it sticks to Beijings line of nothing to see here.
Chinese slaves can barely mumble when Chinese atrocities against its Muslim minority has been going on for decades.

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## kankan326

She can say whatever she wants.


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## maverick1977

Chinese are so stupid to allow her to go after such horrendous acts so she can tell the world and get muslim world against them.. yellow journalism at its best .. not gonna work, nice try ..

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## kankan326

maverick1977 said:


> Chinese are so stupid to allow her to go after such horrendous acts so she can tell the world and get muslim world against them.. yellow journalism at its best .. not gonna work, nice try ..


Makes sense. If China were that evil ,she would never leave the camp alive. She is just a tool of the anti China propaganda compaign. You know. Old trick. Make some money and gain a green card by playing victim.

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## beijingwalker



Reactions: Like Like:
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## qwerrty

striver44 said:


> * It is impossible to verify Ziawudun's account completely *because of the severe restrictions China places on reporters in the country, but travel documents and immigration records...



no need to read. fake news verified 200%.

they wrote an article and big headline based on story impossible to verify.  lolZ bbc keep tryin..


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## terry5

*Women in China's "re-education" camps for Uighurs have been systematically raped, sexually abused, and tortured, according to detailed new accounts obtained by the BBC. 
You may find some of the details in this story distressing.*





image captionTursunay Ziawudun spent nine months inside China's network of internment camps




*The men always wore masks, Tursunay Ziawudun said, even though there was no pandemic then. *
They wore suits, she said, not police uniforms.
Sometime after midnight, they came to the cells to select the women they wanted and took them down the corridor to a "black room", where there were no surveillance cameras.
Several nights, Ziawudun said, they took her.
"Perhaps this is the most unforgettable scar on me forever," she said. 
"I don't even want these words to spill from my mouth."




Tursunay Ziawudun spent nine months inside China's vast and secretive system of internment camps in the Xinjiang region. According to independent estimates, more than a million men and women have been detained in the sprawling network of camps, which China says exist for the "re-education" of the Uighurs and other minorities.
Human rights groups say the Chinese government has gradually stripped away the religious and other freedoms of the Uighurs, culminating in an oppressive system of mass surveillance, detention, indoctrination, and even forced sterilisation.
The policy flows from China's President, Xi Jinping, who visited Xinjiang in 2014 in the wake of a terror attack by Uighur separatists. Shortly after, according to documents leaked to the New York Times, he directed local officials to respond with "absolutely no mercy". The US government said last month that China's actions since amounted to a genocide. China says reports of mass detention and forced sterilisation are "lies and absurd allegations".
First-hand accounts from inside the internment camps are rare, but several former detainees and a guard have told the BBC they experienced or saw evidence of an organised system of mass rape, sexual abuse and torture.
Tursunay Ziawudun, who fled Xinjiang after her release and is now in the US, said women were removed from the cells "every night" and raped by one or more masked Chinese men. She said she was tortured and later gang-raped on three occasions, each time by two or three men.
Ziawudun has spoken to the media before, but only from Kazakhstan, where she "lived in constant fear of being sent back to China", she said. She said she believed that if she revealed the extent of the sexual abuse she had experienced and seen, and was returned to Xinjiang, she would be punished more harshly than before. And she was ashamed, she said.








image captionTursunay Ziawudun was able to flee to Kazakhstan, and then on to relative safety in the US




It is impossible to verify Ziawudun's account completely because of the severe restrictions China places on reporters in the country, but travel documents and immigration records she provided to the BBC corroborate the timeline of her story. Her descriptions of the camp in Xinyuan county - known in Uighur as Kunes county - match satellite imagery analysed by the BBC, and her descriptions of daily life inside the camp, as well as the nature and methods of the abuse, correspond with other accounts from former detainees.
Internal documents from the Kunes county justice system from 2017 and 2018, provided to the BBC by Adrian Zenz, a leading expert on China's policies in Xinjiang, detail planning and spending for "transformation through education" of "key groups" - a common euphemism in China for the indoctrination of the Uighurs. In one Kunes document, the "education" process is described as "washing brains, cleansing hearts, strengthening righteousness and eliminating evil". 
The BBC also interviewed a Kazakh woman from Xinjiang who was detained for 18 months in the camp system, who said she was forced to strip Uighur women naked and handcuff them, before leaving them alone with Chinese men. Afterwards, she cleaned the rooms, she said.
"My job was to remove their clothes above the waist and handcuff them so they cannot move," said Gulzira Auelkhan, crossing her wrists behind her head to demonstrate. "Then I would leave the women in the room and a man would enter - some Chinese man from outside or policeman. I sat silently next to the door, and when the man left the room I took the woman for a shower." 
The Chinese men "would pay money to have their pick of the prettiest young inmates", she said.
Some former detainees of the camps have described being forced to assist guards or face punishment. Auelkhan said she was powerless to resist or intervene.
Asked if there was a system of organised rape, she said: "Yes, rape."









"They forced me to go into that room," she said. "They forced me to take off those women's clothes and to restrain their hands and leave the room."
Some of the women who were taken away from the cells at night were never returned, Ziawudun said. Those who were brought back were threatened against telling others in the cell what had happened to them.
"You can't tell anyone what happened, you can only lie down quietly," she said. "It is designed to destroy everyone's spirit."
Mr Zenz told the BBC that the testimony gathered for this story was "some of the most horrendous evidence I have seen since the atrocity began".
"This confirms the very worst of what we have heard before," he said. "It provides authoritative and detailed evidence of sexual abuse and torture at a level clearly greater than what we had assumed." 







IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY IMAGES
image captionGulzira Auelkhan makes tea at home in her village. She was detained for 18 months




The Uighurs are a mostly Muslim Turkic minority group that number about 11 million in Xinjiang in north-western China. The region borders Kazakhstan and is also home to ethnic Kazakhs. Ziawudun, who is 42, is Uighur. Her husband is a Kazakh.
The couple returned to Xinjiang in late 2016 after a five-year stay in Kazakhstan, and were interrogated on arrival and had their passports confiscated, Ziawudun said. A few months later, she was told by police to attend a meeting alongside other Uighurs and Kazakhs and the group was rounded up and detained. 
Her first stint in detention was comparatively easy, she said, with decent food and access to her phone. After a month she developed stomach ulcers and was released. Her husband's passport was returned and he went back to Kazakhstan to work, but authorities kept Ziawudun's, trapping her in Xinjiang. Reports suggest China has purposefully kept behind and interned relatives to discourage those who leave from speaking out. On 9 March 2018, with her husband still in Kazakhstan, Ziawudun was instructed to report to a local police station, she said. She was told she needed "more education".
According to her account, Ziawudun was transported back to the same facility as her previous detention, in Kunes county, but the site had been significantly developed, she said. Buses were lined up outside offloading new detainees "non-stop".
The women had their jewellery confiscated. Ziawudun's earrings were yanked out, she said, causing her ears to bleed, and she was herded into a room with a group of women. Among them was an elderly woman who Ziawudun would later befriend.
The camp guards pulled off the woman's headscarf, Ziawudun said, and shouted at her for wearing a long dress - one of a list of religious expressions that became arrestable offences for Uighurs that year.
"They stripped everything off the elderly lady, leaving her with just her underwear. She was so embarrassed that she tried to cover herself with her arms," Ziawudun said.
"I cried so much watching the way they treated her. Her tears fell like rain."







IMAGE COPYRIGHTMAXAR
image captionZiawudun identified this site - listed as a school - as the location where she was held. Satellite images from 2017 (left) and 2019 (right) show significant development typical of camps, with what look like dormitory and factory buildings




The women were told to hand over their shoes and any clothes with elastic or buttons, Ziawudun said, then taken to cellblocks - "similar to a small Chinese neighbourhood where there are rows of buildings".
Nothing much happened for the first month or two. They were forced to watch propaganda programmes in their cells and had their hair forcibly cut short.
Then police began interrogating Ziawudun about her absent husband, she said, knocking her on the floor when she resisted and kicking her in the abdomen.
"Police boots are very hard and heavy, so at first I thought he was beating me with something," she said. "Then I realised that he was trampling on my belly. I almost passed out - I felt a hot flush go through me."
A camp doctor told her she might have a blood clot. When her cellmates drew attention to the fact that she was bleeding, the guards "replied saying it is normal for women to bleed", she said.
According to Ziawudun, each cell was home to 14 women, with bunk beds, bars on the windows, a basin and a hole-in-the-floor-style toilet. When she first saw women being taken out of the cell at night, she didn't understand why, she said. She thought they were being moved elsewhere.



IMAGE COPYRIGHTBITTER WINTER
image captionSecret filming obtained by the Bitter Winter activist group showed cells with bars and cameras




Then sometime in May 2018 - "I don't remember the exact date, because you don't remember the dates inside there" - Ziawudun and a cellmate, a woman in her twenties, were taken out at night and presented to a Chinese man in a mask, she said. Her cellmate was taken into a separate room.
"As soon as she went inside she started screaming," Ziawudun said. "I don't know how to explain to you, I thought they were torturing her. I never thought about them raping."
The woman who had brought them from the cells told the men about Ziawudun's recent bleeding.
"After the woman spoke about my condition, the Chinese man swore at her. The man with the mask said 'Take her to the dark room'.
"The woman took me to the room next to where the other girl had been taken in. They had an electric stick, I didn't know what it was, and it was pushed inside my genital tract, torturing me with an electric shock."
Ziawudun's torture that first night in the dark room eventually came to an end, she said, when the woman intervened again citing her medical condition, and she was returned to the cell.
About an hour later, her cellmate was brought back.
"The girl became completely different after that, she wouldn't speak to anyone, she sat quietly staring as if in a trance," Ziawudun said. "There were many people in those cells who lost their minds."







IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY
image captionGulzira Auelkhan, centre, at home in her village. She was forced to restrain women in the camps, she said




Alongside cells, another central feature of the camps is classrooms. Teachers have been drafted in to "re-educate" the detainees - a process activists say is designed to strip the Uighurs and other minorities of their culture, language and religion, and indoctrinate them into mainstream Chinese culture.
Qelbinur Sedik, an Uzbek woman from Xinjiang, was among the Chinese language teachers brought into the camps and coerced into giving lessons to the detainees. Sedik has since fled China and spoken publicly about her experience. 
The women's camp was "tightly controlled", Sedik told the BBC. But she heard stories, she said - signs and rumours of rape. One day, Sedik cautiously approached a Chinese camp policewoman she knew.
"I asked her, 'I have been hearing some terrible stories about rape, do you know about it?' She said we should talk in the courtyard during lunch.
"So I went to the courtyard, where there were not many cameras. She said, 'Yes, the rape has become a culture. It is gang rape and the Chinese police not only rape them but also electrocute them. They are subject to horrific torture.'"
That night Sedik didn't sleep at all, she said. "I was thinking about my daughter who was studying abroad and I cried all night."


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## Dungeness

When a propoganda pushed tooooooo farrrrrrr, it became nothing but a joke.


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## redtom

Actually I have a better idea, we can say they forced these women into prostitution. So you can have sterilization, forced labor, vocational education all in one story. They lack the imagination to lie. They are so stupid.


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## terry5

IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY IMAGES
image captionSayragul Sauytbay, a teacher, said she witnessed a harrowing rape. She was later accused of crossing illegally into Kazakhstan




In separate testimony to the Uyghur Human Rights Project, Sedik said she heard about an electrified stick being inserted into women to torture them - echoing the experience Ziawudun described.
There were "four kinds of electric shock", Sedik said - "the chair, the glove, the helmet, and anal rape with a stick".
"The screams echoed throughout the building," she said. "I could hear them during lunch and sometimes when I was in class."
Another teacher forced to work in the camps, Sayragul Sauytbay, told the BBC that "rape was common" and the guards "picked the girls and young women they wanted and took them away".
She described witnessing a harrowing public gang rape of a woman of just 20 or 21, who was brought before about 100 other detainees to make a forced confession.
"After that, in front of everyone, the police took turns to rape her," Sauytbay said.
"While carrying out this test, they watched people closely and picked out anyone who resisted, clenched their fists, closed their eyes, or looked away, and took them for punishment."
The young woman cried out for help, Sauytbay said.
"It was absolutely horrendous," she said. "I felt I had died. I was dead."

In the camp in Kunes, Ziawudun's days drifted into weeks and then months. The detainees' hair was cut, they went to class, they underwent unexplained medical tests, took pills, and were forcibly injected every 15 days with a "vaccine" that brought on nausea and numbness.
Women were forcibly fitted with IUDs or sterilised, Ziawudun said, including a woman who was just about 20 years old. ("We begged them on her behalf," she said.) Forced sterilisation of Uighurs has been widespread in Xinjiang, according to a recent investigation by the Associated Press. The Chinese government told the BBC the allegations were "completely unfounded".
As well as the medical interventions, detainees in Ziawudun's camp spent hours singing patriotic Chinese songs and watching patriotic TV programmes about Chinese President Xi Jinping, she said.
"You forget to think about life outside the camp. I don't know if they brainwashed us or if it was the side effect of the injections and pills, but you can't think of anything beyond wishing you had a full stomach. The food deprivation is so severe."
Detainees had food withheld for infractions such as failing to accurately memorise passages from books about Xi Jinping, according to a former camp guard who spoke to the BBC via video link from a country outside China.
"Once we were taking the people arrested into the concentration camp, and I saw everyone being forced to memorise those books. They sit for hours trying to memorise the text, everyone had a book in their hands," he said.
Those who failed tests were forced to wear three different colours of clothing based on whether they had failed one, two, or three times, he said, and subjected to different levels of punishment accordingly, including food deprivation and beatings.
"I entered those camps. I took detainees into those camps," he said. "I saw those sick, miserable people. They definitely experienced various types of torture. I am sure about that."




IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY IMAGES
image captionAnalysts say the policy against the Uighurs flows directly from President Xi Jinping
It was not possible to independently verify the guard's testimony but he provided documents that appeared to corroborate a period of employment at a known camp. He agreed to speak on condition of anonymity.
The guard said he did not know anything about rape in the cell areas. Asked if the camp guards used electrocution, he said: "Yes. They do. They use those electrocuting instruments." After being tortured, detainees were forced to make confessions to a variety of perceived offences, according to the guard. "I have those confessions in my heart," he said.
President Xi looms large over the camps. His image and slogans adorn the walls; he is a focus of the programme of "re-education". Xi is the overall architect of the policy against the Uighurs, said Charles Parton, a former British diplomat in China and now senior associate fellow at the Royal United Services Institute.
"It is very centralised and it goes to the very top," Parton said. "There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that this is Xi Jinping's policy."
It was unlikely that Xi or other top party officials would have directed or authorised rape or torture, Parton said, but they would "certainly be aware of it".
"I think they prefer at the top just to turn a blind eye. The line has gone out to implement this policy with great sternness, and that is what is happening." That left "no real constraints", he said. "I just don't see what the perpetrators of these acts would have to hold them back."


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## Areesh

Shameful if true


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## beijingwalker

*A Uygur woman claims that she was detained in a re-education camp. Her brothers denied her claims.*





*A BBC report accused a kindergarten in Hotan, Xinjiang of housing children of "detainees".*





*China Daily visited the alleged "camps" in ASPI's reports on Xinjiang and found its data are false.*

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## denel

'Their goal is to destroy everyone': Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape


In new testimony, former detainees of China's detention camps describe systematic rape and torture.



www.bbc.com





Let us hope PDF allows this post to show; China PLA paid trolls will be jumping on it via their bot traffic and lamenting their tears to the mods.

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## Beast

denel said:


> here comes the PLA paid troll brigade ... amazing how much lies will they spin.


@waz @WebMaster @AgNoStiC MuSliM 

Please monitor this thread and some resort to name calling to try derail the accusations.






__





BBC acts as a propaganda weapon by spreading lies on Xinjiang






news.cgtn.com





Look at this news by BBC. Do Pakistanis 
agree with BBC reporting if u can trust it?









US military to cancel $300m Pakistan aid - BBC News


The Pentagon says Pakistan is failing to tackle militancy and the funds should be used elsewhere.




www.bbc.com





Why would Pakistan support them?
Pakistan has long been accused of using the Afghan Taliban to further its foreign policy interests in the country. The ISI first became involved in funding and training militants in Afghanistan after the Soviet invasion in 1979.

Image captionPakistan and the US are key allies - but ties have frayed in recent months
Although since 2001 Pakistan has allowed its territory to be used to supply international troops during the war in Afghanistan, and co-operated with the West in fighting some terrorists groups like al-Qaeda, analysts say it has continued to give shelter and support to Afghan insurgents.

Its aim has been to limit the influence in Afghanistan of its chief regional rival, India

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## User

What`s happening. Truth or lie for asylum?


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## TheDebSahab

Wtf is wrong with you?

Why soread bullshit?

This must've happened quite recently if it did. Considering the fact that I visited Turpan and Urumqi last MONTH.

There is literal ARABIC written on the SHOPS and BANKS.

Quran available to but at most if not ALL book shops. Men with beards aren't that common but I did see quite a few.

I was given Salam Muslims when they learned I'm Pakistani. Even HIJABI WOMEN were fond.

Why do you shit out bullcrap like it's a hobby?


aziqbal said:


> waiting for the low quality Chinese fanboys to start jumping up and down like monkeys on a hot surface
> 
> China banned muslims praying and no muslim in Northern China has beards and surveillance is now on every street corner
> 
> Huawei has even issued a patent on AI tech to identify Uighur muslims anyone with IQ of 10 will be able to find this patent its public info
> 
> Quran is banned and everything is monitored basically China has classed islam as a disease
> 
> we supported China but our religion is not for sale
> 
> May Allahs wrath hit them hard I am sure it is coming for them

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## dbc

To be fair the Chinese are uniformly hard on non-conformance. We see evidence of it all around China, the sad reality is that the Uighur's have borne the brunt of Chinese recalibration because they are so different. One day the Chinese will attain enlightenment and learn to treasure diversity, diversity in thought, beliefs and ideas. China cannot, should not become all powerful until then.


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## CIA Mole

dbc said:


> To be fair the Chinese are uniformly hard on non-conformance. We see evidence of it all around China, the sad reality is that the Uighur's have borne the brunt of Chinese recalibration because they are so different. One day the Chinese will attain enlightenment and learn to treasure diversity, diversity in thought, beliefs and ideas. China cannot, should not become all powerful until then.



Seems to be the case with all the East Asian cultures.

That said they end up with order. Can't think of places safer than there, especially for women.

They do seem to accept/tolerate whites better than darker people though.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Uighurs are present as top generals, celebrities and politicians in China. Clearly there isn't extreme systematic bias against them. There's fewer Chinese Americans or Muslim Americans for that matter in the US Cabinet or state government than there are Uighurs in the State Council and provincial government.


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## redtom

If China solves the problem of terrorism through education, vocational counseling, job provision, and increased income, then the US will not be able to bomb Muslims in the future.

Does this threaten the future survival of Israel?

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## TaiShang

BBC acts as a propaganda weapon by spreading lies on Xinjiang


The BBC is becoming a frontline voice in propagating lies about China in an attempt to deliberately undermine its reputation and empower ideological hardliners.




news.cgtn.com






Again, the BBC published a series of allegations on the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region from the purported testimony of individuals. These claims are of such a graphic nature and severity that they ought not to be repeated. However, that does not detract from the malicious intent behind why they have been pushed, despite the report conceding that it is "impossible to verify" such claims.

The answer is simple: *the BBC is a dogmatic, ideological institution with long complicity in information warfare*. Presenting itself as a credible and impartial source of information, it is whipping up extreme emotions with misleading and sensationalist reporting in order to manufacture consent for Western confrontation against China.

The BBC has often been held as a barometer for the profession of broadcasting around the world. Sadly, the organization is increasingly degraded into a propaganda weapon, especially when it comes to foreign policy.

British historian Nicholas John Cull is straightforward in his book "Propaganda and Mass Persuasion, A Historical Encyclopedia": *the BBC "has served as the propaganda arm of the British government overseas" and in turn propagated Cold War anti-Communism.*

However, the book points out that *the art of the BBC's success has been to do this subtly, rather than explicitly, noting that "The BBC sought to gain a reputation for credibility as a news service" and further elaborating that the style of British propaganda has been to utilize subtlety, described as "feeding ideas" or "propaganda by persuasion."*







Screenshot of the BBC's fake reports on Xinjiang.

As some noted examples of this style, the BBC was accused by many academic stories of overtly promoting the case for war in Iraq during 2002. An academic paper by David McQueen of Bournemouth University observed the BBC's three trends of coverage on Iraq: First, deliberately incited fear against Saddam Hussein; second, overused "official" sources; third, didn't give credence to opposing views.

The relevance of the comparison is that with the Xinjiang issue, the BBC is producing emotionally charged, aggressive and misleading information in order to deliberately buy support for confrontational policies against China. This phenomenon has been dubbed as "manufacturing consent" by Noam Chomsky.

It is not the first time it has done so. The broadcaster has persistently sought to keep extremely negative content about Xinjiang on the agenda on a rolling basis and deliberately geared their conclusions towards policy outcomes, dubbing them a "game-changer".

For example, late last year the BBC commissioned far-right fundamentalist researcher Adrian Zenz to proliferate lies of forced labor in the region, which subsequently led to U.S. sanctions against the Xinjiang cotton industry.

It has also been a leading voice in promoting violence in Hong Kong, with clear double standards in how it approaches situations in other places. In January, the BBC condemned the unrest at the U.S. capitol building as an insurrection by a "pro-Trump mob", yet it has insisted on using "pro-democracy protesters" to describe Hong Kong rioters.

The BBC is becoming a frontline voice in propagating lies about China in an attempt to deliberately undermine its reputation and empower ideological hardliners. Claims about Xinjiang are unverified, self-admitted speculation yet presented as an infallible truth worthy of imposing grave geopolitical consequences.

It's time to get tough with the BBC's lies and talk about the institution for what it is than what it is assumed to be.
_(If you want to contribute and have specific expertise, please contact us at __opinions@cgtn.com__.) _

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## 8888888888888

She sounds like another lier that claims this and that with nothing to back it up.


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## rent4country

*State department says ‘atrocities’ against detained Uighur and Muslim women in region must be ‘met with serious consequences’*


The United States is “deeply disturbed” by reports of systematic rape and sexual abuse against women in internment camps for ethnic Uighurs and other Muslims in China’s Xinjiang region and there must be serious consequences for atrocities committed there, the US state department has said.
A BBC report on Wednesday said women in the camps were subject to rape, sexual abuse and torture. The British broadcaster said “several former detainees and a guard have told the BBC they experienced or saw evidence of an organised system of mass rape, sexual abuse and torture”.

A state department spokesperson said: “We are deeply disturbed by reports, including first-hand testimony, of systematic rape and sexual abuse against women in internment camps for ethnic Uighurs and other Muslims in Xinjiang.”



'Our souls are dead': how I survived a Chinese 're-education' camp for Uighurs
Read more

The spokesperson reiterated US charges that China has committed “crimes against humanity and genocide” in Xinjiang and added: “These atrocities shock the conscience and must be met with serious consequences.”
The official said China should allow “immediate and independent investigations by international observers” into the rape allegations “in addition to the other atrocities being committed in Xinjiang.”

Beijing denies accusations of abuse in Xinjiang, and has said the complexes it set up in the region provided vocational training to help stamp out Islamist extremism and separatism. Those in the facilities have since “graduated”, it says.
Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin said the BBC report was “wholly without factual basis” and charged that the people interviewed for it had been “proved multiple times” to be “actors disseminating false information.”
The Biden administration has endorsed a determination made the previous day by the outgoing Trump administration that China has committed genocide in Xinjiang.

*Last year, a report by a German researcher published by a Washington thinktank accused China of using forced sterilisation, forced abortion and coercive family planning against minority Muslims.*











US 'deeply disturbed' by reports of systematic rape in China's Xinjiang camps


UK under renewed pressure to impose sanctions in wake of ‘clearly evil acts’ against Uighur and Muslim women




www.theguardian.com


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## qwerrty

brits has gone wacko anti-china after they lost whatever little influence they've had in hk. lol. china is badly hurting their feeling..

since all gloves are off now. china should officially support breakaway of scottland, wales, northern ireland from the uk and watch them whine.

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## vi-va

Yeah, China is bad bad bad, repeat after me, bad bad bad.
China systematically genocide 20 millions Native Americans.

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## vi-va

BBC = British Bullshit Corporation

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## TaiShang

qwerrty said:


> brits has gone wacko anti-china after they lost whatever little influence they've had in hk. lol. china is badly hurting their feeling..
> 
> since all gloves are off now. china should officially support breakaway of scottland, wales, northern ireland from the uk and watch them whine.



China will make sure they constantly bleed economically and socially. 

They are far from being stable. 

These propaganda are desparate soft efforts with zero practical outcome since such news appears in such massive amounts, people are desensitized.

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## dbc

I like the BBC, I didn't like paying TV license fee in the UK but I relied on the BBC for impartial news and analysis on western events - Europe and America.

I can't comment about their reporting standards as it related to HK, Uygur and China since it is impossible to independently verify the facts. Now if China opened up the region to all domestic and international visitors we may be able to get to the truth.

@waz  and @UKBengali


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## qwerrty

TaiShang said:


> China will make sure they constantly bleed economically and socially.
> 
> They are far from being stable.
> 
> These propaganda are desparate soft efforts with zero practical outcome since such news appears in such massive amounts, people are desensitized.


there's report that they want to join the tpp and they want to have veto power to block china from joining. haha.. pathetic

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

dbc said:


> One day the Chinese will attain enlightenment and learn to treasure diversity, diversity in thought, beliefs and ideas. China cannot, should not become all powerful until then.


Sorry, but the US has killed more or caused more to be killed in the last few decades through its wars and invasions abroad. Toppled numerous elected and unelected governments & caused uncountable death and destruction.

How much of that has China done?

It is the US that has to ‘attain enlightenment & learn to treasure diversity globally’ and learn to use its enormous power and influence responsibly. And just as the US was free to grow and become a global power while it carried out a genocide of native Americans, practiced slavery and then outright racism, segregation and hate, so too must China and other countries going through their own ‘growing pains’ be allowed to evolve at their own pace.

The world needs a powerful China to balance an arrogant and out of control US now more than ever, especially as said US courts hate-mongers and bigots like Modi and countries like India and Israel, essentially supporting their campaigns of apartheid, occupation & atrocities.




denel said:


> 'Their goal is to destroy everyone': Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape
> 
> 
> In new testimony, former detainees of China's detention camps describe systematic rape and torture.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us hope PDF allows this post to show; China PLA paid trolls will be jumping on it via their bot traffic and lamenting their tears to the mods.


Pakistanis have seen the BBC pull this kind of BS propaganda against Pakistan, at the height of tensions between the US & Pakistan in Afghanistan, multiple times.

The fact remains that at this point in time the US and it’s allies have painted a target on China’s back and their media cannot be considered unbiased. I would like to see independent corroboration of the claims made by the BBC. Pakistan has plenty of its own ‘asylum seekers’ that have concocted fantastic yarns to support their asylum cases.

And Immigrants like me shall play our own role in trying to get US policy to change.

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## Place Of Space

dbc said:


> I like the BBC, I didn't like paying TV license fee in the UK but I relied on the BBC for impartial news and analysis on western events - Europe and America.
> 
> I can't comment about their reporting standards as it related to HK, Uygur and China since it is impossible to independently verify the facts. Now if China opened up the region to all domestic and international visitors we may be able to get to the truth.
> 
> @waz  and @UKBengali


We welcome friendly buddies who respect the locals, not all domestic and international visitors. Trouble makers damage everyone's convenience.


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## rent4country

Chinese propaganda media putting out articles on the credibility of the BBC. and the Chinese, who are told what to say/believe/watch/read/behave from the cradle to the grave by the CCP - joining in...LOL-The irony!


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

dbc said:


> Now if China opened up the region to all domestic and international visitors we may be able to get to the truth.
> 
> @waz  and @UKBengali


Plenty of Pakistanis have visited Xinjiang and had nothing but praise for what they saw.

My brother in law studied in China for several years getting his PhD and was a frequent traveler to Xinjiang (built some close friendships with students from there) and had nothing but positive comments.

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## CAPRICORN-88

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Plenty of Pakistanis have visited Xinjiang and had nothing but praise for what they saw.
> 
> My brother in law studied in China for several years getting his PhD and was a frequent traveler to Xinjiang (built some close friendships with students from there) and had nothing but positive comments.


_That is why your PM Iran Khan has openly praised and wishes to learn from China. 

He wanted to create a fair, moderate and open-minded Pakistan where everyone can coexists in peace today. 
When he first became the PM he was skeptical but now he seen it for himself, he is convinced and so are many Muslim nations as well. In fact more than 50 of them. 
Extremism leads to nowhere but disaster. 

Yes. Islam is Pakistan official religion but Musims must protect and respect the other folks right and their religion as well.  _


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## beijingwalker



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## dbc

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Plenty of Pakistanis have visited Xinjiang and had nothing but praise for what they saw.
> 
> My brother in law studied in China for several years getting his PhD and was a frequent traveler to Xinjiang (built some close friendships with students from there) and had nothing but positive comments.



I lived in Dubai, studied at the American school in Jumeriah. In the 90's, a Mercedes packed with explosives was discovered in the basement parking of the World Trade center - home to the US Consulate at the time. Nothing in the news, not a peep to the general public but we heard the news from friends that worked at the US Embassy. Lots of people visit places like Dubai and are completely oblivious to local news and events that is deemed unsuitable for public consumption. China is no different, if your friends spoke the local language and had unrestricted access - yeah sure, then the information they share becomes more credible. There are places in China and Xinjiang in particular inaccessible to foreigners,


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## Beast

dbc said:


> I lived in Dubai, studied at the American school in Jumeriah. In the 90's, a Mercedes packed with explosives was discovered in the basement parking of the World Trade center - home to the US Consulate at the time. Nothing in the news, not a peep to the general public but we heard the news from friends that worked at the US Embassy. Lots of people visit places like Dubai and are completely oblivious to local news and events that is deemed unsuitable for public consumption. China is no different, if your friends spoke the local language and had unrestricted access - yeah sure, then the information they share becomes more credible. There are places in China and Xinjiang in particular inaccessible to foreigners,


As if in US , you can visit fort Derrick, prison and military camp anytime for public? Typical selective posting.

So what makes China different?


AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Plenty of Pakistanis have visited Xinjiang and had nothing but praise for what they saw.
> 
> My brother in law studied in China for several years getting his PhD and was a frequent traveler to Xinjiang (built some close friendships with students from there) and had nothing but positive comments.


 








My Trip to China Exposed the Shameful Lies Peddled by the American Empire | Black Agenda Report


China is a land of bullet trains and rising standards of living, in contrast to the decay of the imperial center, the United States. “Pollution and income and wealth inequality remains problems for ‘socialism with Chinese characteristics.’”




blackagendareport.com





Precisely echo of some american independent human right group who bother to travel to there and experience themselves.

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## Char

dbc said:


> I lived in Dubai, studied at the American school in Jumeriah. In the 90's, a Mercedes packed with explosives was discovered in the basement parking of the World Trade center - home to the US Consulate at the time. Nothing in the news, not a peep to the general public but we heard the news from friends that worked at the US Embassy. Lots of people visit places like Dubai and are completely oblivious to local news and events that is deemed unsuitable for public consumption. China is no different, if your friends spoke the local language and had unrestricted access - yeah sure, then the information they share becomes more credible. There are places in China and Xinjiang in particular inaccessible to foreigners,



Actually foreigners are free to go to Xinjiang but not Tibet.


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## dbc

Beast said:


> As if in US , you can visit fort Derrick, prison and military camp anytime for public? Typical selective posting.
> 
> So what makes China different?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My Trip to China Exposed the Shameful Lies Peddled by the American Empire | Black Agenda Report
> 
> 
> China is a land of bullet trains and rising standards of living, in contrast to the decay of the imperial center, the United States. “Pollution and income and wealth inequality remains problems for ‘socialism with Chinese characteristics.’”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackagendareport.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely echo of some american independent human right group who bother to travel to there and experience themselves.



Don't be obtuse, no country permits unfettered access to military installations. Any place that is accessible to the American public is open to foreign visitors. The same is not true in China.


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## CIA Mole

Char said:


> Actually foreigners are free to go to Xinjiang but not Tibet.



What's wrong with tibet?


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## Beast

dbc said:


> Don't be obtuse, no country permits unfettered access to military installations. Any place that is accessible to the American public is open to foreign visitors. The same is not true in China.


There are military installation in a Xinjiang including the nuclear test site. Xinjiang is the same. Any places can be visited by public except those. I can bet those BBC BS about Xinjiang military site as non accessible by public as evidence of so called re educational camp.

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## Char

CIA Mole said:


> What's wrong with tibet?



Maybe most unsettled borders are in Tibet.

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## Place Of Space

dbc said:


> I lived in Dubai, studied at the American school in Jumeriah. In the 90's, a Mercedes packed with explosives was discovered in the basement parking of the World Trade center - home to the US Consulate at the time. Nothing in the news, not a peep to the general public but we heard the news from friends that worked at the US Embassy. Lots of people visit places like Dubai and are completely oblivious to local news and events that is deemed unsuitable for public consumption. China is no different, if your friends spoke the local language and had unrestricted access - yeah sure, then the information they share becomes more credible. There are places in China and Xinjiang in particular inaccessible to foreigners,


The more propagandas the West spread, the more places you guys can't get access to, if you want to complain, do to your propaganda medias.


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## dbc

Char said:


> Actually foreigners are free to go to Xinjiang but not Tibet.



Yes officially that is correct but not true in practice. Layers and layers of security checks that become stricter as you approach sensitive areas discourage most foreigners from probing too deep.


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## beijingwalker

rent4country said:


> View attachment 713353
> 
> 
> *State department says ‘atrocities’ against detained Uighur and Muslim women in region must be ‘met with serious consequences’*
> 
> 
> The United States is “deeply disturbed” by reports of systematic rape and sexual abuse against women in internment camps for ethnic Uighurs and other Muslims in China’s Xinjiang region and there must be serious consequences for atrocities committed there, the US state department has said.
> A BBC report on Wednesday said women in the camps were subject to rape, sexual abuse and torture. The British broadcaster said “several former detainees and a guard have told the BBC they experienced or saw evidence of an organised system of mass rape, sexual abuse and torture”.
> 
> A state department spokesperson said: “We are deeply disturbed by reports, including first-hand testimony, of systematic rape and sexual abuse against women in internment camps for ethnic Uighurs and other Muslims in Xinjiang.”
> 
> 
> 
> 'Our souls are dead': how I survived a Chinese 're-education' camp for Uighurs
> Read more
> 
> The spokesperson reiterated US charges that China has committed “crimes against humanity and genocide” in Xinjiang and added: “These atrocities shock the conscience and must be met with serious consequences.”
> The official said China should allow “immediate and independent investigations by international observers” into the rape allegations “in addition to the other atrocities being committed in Xinjiang.”
> 
> Beijing denies accusations of abuse in Xinjiang, and has said the complexes it set up in the region provided vocational training to help stamp out Islamist extremism and separatism. Those in the facilities have since “graduated”, it says.
> Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin said the BBC report was “wholly without factual basis” and charged that the people interviewed for it had been “proved multiple times” to be “actors disseminating false information.”
> The Biden administration has endorsed a determination made the previous day by the outgoing Trump administration that China has committed genocide in Xinjiang.
> 
> *Last year, a report by a German researcher published by a Washington thinktank accused China of using forced sterilisation, forced abortion and coercive family planning against minority Muslims.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US 'deeply disturbed' by reports of systematic rape in China's Xinjiang camps
> 
> 
> UK under renewed pressure to impose sanctions in wake of ‘clearly evil acts’ against Uighur and Muslim women
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


US is not " disturbed" on this?





__





Sexualized Violence Against Iraqi Women By US Occupying Forces | United Nations | Meaningful World


A Briefing Paper OF INTERNATIONAL EDUCATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Prepared by Kristen McNutt, Researcher, Association of Humanitarian Lawyers Presented to The United Nations Commission on Human Rights 2005 Session March Geneva Contact: ied@igc.org Iraqi female detainees have been illegally detained...




meaningfulworld.com

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## beijingwalker

dbc said:


> Yes officially that is correct but not true in practice. Layers and layers of security checks that become stricter as you approach sensitive areas discourage most foreigners from probing too deep.


Did you visit Xinjiang youself? Is that your first hand experience?

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> oh I have an idea.
> India should mimic china when it comes to Kashmir,
> 
> "did you ever visit Kashmir yourself???" should be the standard answer whenever anyone accuse India HR violations.


Kashmir has daily violence and Xinjiang hasn't seen one since 2017. People can come to Xinjiang to see the massive development and much improved standard of lving of the locals? What people can see in Kashmir? extended curfews?

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## dbc

beijingwalker said:


> Did you visit Xinjiang youself? Is that your first hand experience?



Can you prove the women in your video attempted to stray off the areas designated open to foreign tourist? While thousands of travel blogs on the internet caution visitors from straying off the beaten path. The onerous security checks is frequently mentioned by many travelers to Xinjiang.


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## Beast

dbc said:


> Can you prove the women in your video attempted to stray off the areas designated open to foreign tourist? While thousands of travel blogs on the internet caution visitors from straying off the beaten path. The onerous security checks is frequently mentioned by many travelers to Xinjiang.


What is wrong with security check? Maybe you intent to smuggle weapon in and create problem?

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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Kashmir has daily violence and Xinjiang hasn't seen one since 2017. People can come to Xinjiang to see the massive development and much improved standard of lving of the locals? What people can see in Kashmir? extended curfews?


Did you see any curfew whatsoever in the video ? I don't, must be China propaganda to smear India, yes?

And for the development arguments , I've done multiple arguments with your friends on why what china did is even worse.


----------



## beijingwalker

dbc said:


> Can you prove the women in your video attempted to stray off the areas designated open to foreign tourist? While thousands of travel blogs on the internet caution visitors from straying off the beaten path. The onerous security checks is frequently mentioned by many travelers to Xinjiang.


Do you know security checks are everywhere in China? If I leave Beijing and enter Hebei province, I have to go through security checks and get off my card to provide my IDs and all the information, it's common practice in China.

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## KAL-EL

Beast said:


> What is wrong with security check? Maybe you intent to smuggle weapon in and create problem?



Nothing wrong with security check in general.

What if someone wanted to smuggle in comic books & Potato chips?


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## Beast

striver44 said:


> Did you see any curfew whatsoever in the video ? I don't, must be China propaganda to smear India, yes?
> 
> And for the development arguments , I've done multiple arguments with your friends on why what china did is even worse.


Of cos you don't see curfew when you are posting old video of Kashmir.









One year of India's clampdown in occupied Kashmir — here's everything you need to know


Dawn.com looks back at the major developments since August 5, 2019 when India unilaterally annexed occupied Kashmir.



www.dawn.com





Kashmir are under lockdown from 2019 onwards. I don't know how those can travel freely???

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> Did you see any curfew whatsoever in the video ? I don't, must be China propaganda to smear India, yes?
> 
> And for the development arguments , I've done multiple arguments with your friends on why what china did is even worse.


But curfews does happen in Kashmir, not in Xinjiang. Xinjiang is the most developed region in central and south Asia, what about Kashmir?


----------



## TaiShang

qwerrty said:


> there's report that they want to join the tpp and they want to have veto power to block china from joining. haha.. pathetic



I wonder what would be their contribution. If they want good US poodle, Australia is more than enough - and everyone in East Asia gets used to it. Why hire another poodle?

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> I'm using your tactics against you


What do you mean?


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> But curfews does happen in Kashmir, not in Xinjiang. Xinjiang is the most developed region in central and south Asia, what about Kashmir?


Curfews don't happen in Xinjiang when you lock the entire populace in camps. That explains.

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## TaiShang

Beast said:


> There are military installation in a Xinjiang including the nuclear test site. Xinjiang is the same. Any places can be visited by public except those. I can bet those BBC BS about Xinjiang military site as non accessible by public as evidence of so called re educational camp.



Xinjiang is one of the most popular regions for domestic and international tourism.

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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> What do you mean?


Oooh nothing, just sharing usual Youtube video proof on why in there's no such genocide on place x based on videos.


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> Curfews don't happen in Xinjiang when you lock the entire populace in camps. That explains.


Tell me another region that can develop this fast and achieve such progress while locking down the entire population. can you?


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## Place Of Space

dbc said:


> Can you prove the women in your video attempted to stray off the areas designated open to foreign tourist? While thousands of travel blogs on the internet caution visitors from straying off the beaten path. The onerous security checks is frequently mentioned by many travelers to Xinjiang.


Tell me what you want to see? The genocide secene and Uighurs mass grave? sorry it doesn't exist. Your propagandas set up non-exist and try all ways to prove it, that's ridiculous.

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> Oooh nothing, just sharing usual Youtube video proof on why in there's no such genocide on place x based on videos.


I was asking if you are really an Indonesia and what is this supposed to mean?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

dbc said:


> Yes officially that is correct but not true in practice. Layers and layers of security checks that become stricter as you approach sensitive areas discourage most foreigners from probing too deep.


Who decides what is ‘prevented from probing too deep’?

The same Western outlets and governments that have a vested interest in preventing China’s rise and therefore retaining their hegemony over the global order? So they can go on continuing their wars resulting in perhaps millions dead, overthrowing regimes and cherry-picking despots (GCC & Arab monarchs & dictators) and regimes carrying out occupations and atrocities (Israel & India) and declaring them ‘Kosher’ and bolstering them with high tech weapons, aid, technology and legitimacy through support for memberships in prestigious international organizations?

When has China done anything even remotely close to that?

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> Doesn't matter, your development has nothing to do with the current sorry state of it's minorities.


But tell me another region that can develop this fast and achieve such progress while locking down the entire population as you claimed, can you?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

beijingwalker said:


> But tell me another region that can develop this fast and achieve such progress while locking down the entire population as you claimed, can you?


He/She is Thread banned for a week for trolling with off topic nonsense.

Egypt and the Pharoahs? Really?

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## TaiShang

Online event held to present real Xinjiang amid piles of lies - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn





An online event was held to introduce Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region to more outsiders on Thursday with ambassadors from many countries attending to listen to stories of former trainees of Xinjiang's education centers, imams, and female representatives.

The event, themed "Xinjiang is a Wonderful Land" was jointly held by the Xinjiang regional government and China's Permanent Mission to the United Nations Office at Geneva and other International Organizations in Switzerland via video link. *Diplomats from many countries, including Laos, Pakistan and Zimbabwe as well as officials from UN agencies attended. *

Ambassador Chen Xu said at the event that over the years, Xinjiang has made unprecedented achievements in economic and social development and improvements of people's livelihoods. At present, Xinjiang enjoys stability and people there live and work in peace and happiness.

"However, certain countries and forces hate to see what Xinjiang enjoys today… They deliberately distort facts, wantonly slander and smear China... Some politicians have concocted lies and accused China of committing the so-called 'genocide' and 'crimes against humanity,' Their acts are firmly opposed by the people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang," Chen said. 

Lies repeated a thousand times are still lies. They can neither change the fact that Xinjiang is prosperous and developing, and the people of all ethnic groups enjoy a happy life, nor can they stop Xinjiang's strides forward, said Chen. 

Erkin Tuniyaz, vice chairman of the region, also delivered a keynote speech and noted the event is intended to present the real Xinjiang for attendees to come to their own conclusions amid lies by some Western and the US politicians who accused China of committing genocide, forced labor and forced sterilization in the region. 

Representatives of graduated trainees from former vocational education and training centers appeared at the event and told stories of how they were influenced by extremism and how their lives have been changed after graduating from the centers. Representatives of residents and imams also attended the event to debunk the lies. 

Ramagul Hudabardi, a Uygur mother of three children, introduced her experience to refute the forced sterilization rumor. 

*The old idea that women must stay home and give birth to tens of children has changed, and her three children are better cared for by the family and the social welfare system, she said, noting she got regular health checks during pregnancies and her children can receive free education until the end of high school. *

At the event, a video on how livestreaming promotion and e-commerce channels are helping Xinjiang residents sell their local specialties across the country was streamed and a video which introduced a student's life and study at a Xinjiang Islamic Institute gave audience a general impression of the reality in the region. 

*Ambassador Kham-Inh Khitchadeth from Laos recalled his experience in visiting Xinjiang in 2019 and said that there is no "one-fit-for-all" approach in development patterns and the Chinese government has made great achievements in social development and human rights protection. 

The ambassador also suggested people should visit Xinjiang rather than listen to "fake news" about the region. *

In response to Cuba Ambassador Juan Quintanilla's question on how people in Xinjiang reacted to US former secretary of state Mike Pompeo's "genocide" accusation against Xinjiang, Gu Guixiang, a senior regional official said that this is a farce and the "lie of the century."

Anti-China forces' attempts to make trouble in Xinjiang or to draw Xinjiang back to the previous nightmare of frequent terrorist attacks are doomed to fail, Xu said.

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## NiceDay

beijingwalker said:


> I was asking if you are really an Indonesia and what is this supposed to mean?


I bet he is the descendant of Keling refugees living in Indonesia

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## beijingwalker

Uighur twin sister social media influencer: Xinjiang genocide? Crime against humanity? TOTAL BULLSHIT.


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## striver44

While 20th century genocides were conducted with punch cards and paper ledgers, China is targeting Uyghur with state-of-the-art biometrics, surveillance systems and AI
Author of the article:
Tristin Hopper
Publishing date:
Jan 28, 2021 • 6 days ago • 5 minute read





A "re-education camp" established by Chinese state authorities in Aksu, Xinjiang. PHOTO BY AUSTRALIAN STRATEGIC POLICY INSTITUTE
In the last month, a series of bipartisan declarations have emerged from the United States accusing the People’s Republic of China of perpetrating “genocide” in its treatment of Uyghur minority populations in the country’s northwest. While a parliamentary subcommittee has urged in recent months that Canada follow suit, there have been no such declarations from the government of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. Below, a quick primer on what China is doing in its northwest, and why international observers are calling it one of the most systematic attempts at state genocide since the Holocaust.
*‘Largest mass incarceration of a minority population’*




Starting in earnest around 2017, the People’s Republic of China has been opening a vast network of “re-education centres” in Xinjiang, in the country’s northwest. Between one and two million mostly Muslim Xinjiang residents — ethnic Uyghurs most prominent — have been forcibly sent to these centres for “crimes” as simple as going to Mosque or texting a relative in Turkey. A 2018 statement from the US Congressional-Executive Commission on China called the system “the largest mass incarceration of a minority population in the world today”


China has persistently referred to these facilities as “boarding schools” or “vocational training centres,” even when they clearly include guard towers and high walls topped with razor wire. A leaked 2019 video showed large groups of blindfolded, freshly shaved Uyghur men being forced to kneel on the ground to await processing at a Xinjiang train station.

Using satellite imagery, the Australian Strategic Policy Institute has meticulously assembled 3D models of nearly 400 Uyghur detention facilities in Xinjiang. A 2018 Reuters investigation analyzed local government construction tenders to confirm that these facilities were designed to be fully equipped with prison-like surveillance and security systems.
Former detainees, some of whom have recently testified before a Canadian House of Commons subcommittee, have reported being subjected to brutal regimens of indoctrination, with torture and sexual abuse of dissenters. In recent years, evidence has also emerged of Uyghur detainees being used as forced labour in Chinese factories.

*‘In the future, the idea of Uyghur will be in name only, but without its meaning’*
When it comes to regions bristling under Chinese rule, Tibet generally gets most of the world’s attention. But Xinjiang has had an uneasy relationship with Communist China from day one.
The region is heavily Muslim with ethnic and cultural origins that are much more in line with neighbouring Uzbekistan. The region only became viewed as a definitively Chinese territory upon its conquest by the Qing Dynasty in the 1870s. In the 1930s and 1940s, the region twice capitalized on political instability in China to break away as an Islamic republic, and pressure to do again was re-ignited by the 1991 collapse of the neighbouring Soviet Union. The interim three decades have seen incidents of ethnic riots in Xinjiang and violence from Uyghur separatists, such as a 2010 suicide bombing that killed seven.





One of the most widely circulated images depicting conditions within the re-education camps. Taken in 2017, it was originally part of a post touting government “deradicalization” efforts.
The presidency of Xi Jinping saw an immediate ramping-up of repression in Xinjiang with the launch of the “Strike Hard Campaign against Violent Terrorism.” Even before the opening of re-education centres, Xinjiang residents had their passports confiscated and saw their cities peppered with police checkpoints.
The deadliest genocides of the 20th century were carried out with punch cards and paper ledgers. A particularly chilling dimension to China’s actions in Xinjiang is how authorities have fully mobilized the resources of a 21st century surveillance state. Between 2016 and 2017, roughly the entire population of Xinjiang was required to turn over biometric data such as DNA samples and iris scans in a program dubbed Physicals for All.
Uyghur economist Ilham Tohti, who fled Xinjiang in 2017 after being accused of “separatism,” told Human Rights Watch that the ultimate goal is to thoroughly purge Xinjiang of all inkling of distinct identity and “identify with the country, such that, in the future, the idea of Uyghur will be in name only, but without its meaning.”
*‘They have some problems with their thoughts’*
Chinese authorities have been quite explicit about branding Uyghur’s culture and their Islamic faith as a mental illness or an “ideological virus.” In a Tweet earlier this month, China’s US Embassy claimed that by “eradicating extremism” in Xinjiang, Uyghur women were “no longer baby-making machines.”

Internal Chinese documents leaked to the New York Times reveal that when Uyghurs inquire about relatives who have gone missing at the hands of authorities, they are told to “treasure this chance for free education that the party and government has provided to thoroughly eradicate erroneous thinking, and also learn Chinese and job skills.” When BBC investigators asked residents in the Xinjiang city of Dabancheng in 2018 about the emergence of a new high-security “re-education” centre in their midst, one replied that it was for the tens of thousands of Xinjiang residents experiencing “problems with their thoughts.”


One pro-internment article aimed at Uyghur readers claimed that “being ‘infected’ by religious extremism and violent terrorist ideology but not receiving immediate ‘re-education’ is similar to contracting an illness but not seeking a cure, or becoming a drug addict but refusing treatment.” A counsellor at one of these facilities told Chinese reporters that once detainees “study well and their mental state is healthy, they will be able to live happily in society.”
In December, 2019, Xinjiang Governor Shohrat Zakir held a news conference in which he praised the “graduation” of Uyghurs from the centres, saying “with the help of the government, stable employment has been achieved and their quality of life has been improved.”
*‘They want to destroy us as a people’*
From the available evidence, China’s actions in Xinjiang lack the targeted mass-murder that characterized genocides such as the Holocaust or the Holodomor, the Soviet Union’s engineered starvation of several million Ukrainians. The United Nations Convention on Genocide, drafted only months after the liberation of Nazi death and forced labour camps, characterized genocide as any deliberate attempt to inflict “physical destruction” on a people. In this, the convention’s framers saw fit to also characterize a genocidal regime as one “imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.”
An AP investigation last year found that China’s Xinjiang crackdown has been accompanied by a wave of forced sterilization, birth control and abortion. The Xinjiang birth rate is now indeed in freefall, with population growth in some regions falling by more than 80 per cent.
The AP interviewed Gulnar Omirzakh, who was slapped with exorbitant fines and ordered to insert an Intrauterine Device after she had her third child. “To prevent people from having children is wrong … they want to destroy us as a people,” she said.









'They want to destroy us': Why China's actions in Xinjiang are being called genocide


While 20th century genocides were conducted with punch cards and paper ledgers, China is targeting Uyghur with state-of-the-art biometrics, surveillance…




nationalpost.com


----------



## striver44

@waz @AgNoStiC MuSliM @BHarwana @Adios Amigo @The Eagle @WebMaster why isn't this in the Xinjiang thread?

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> @waz @AgNoStiC MuSliM @BHarwana @Adios Amigo @The Eagle @WebMaster why isn't this in the Xinjiang thread?


You just opened multiple new Xinjiang threads today and you have the shame to ask this question?


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> You just opened multiple new Xinjiang threads today and you have the shame to ask this question?


No, mine got deleted, yours not. Don't try to act innocent lel


----------



## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> No, mine got deleted, yours not. Don't try to act innocent lel


Please have some shame









'They want to destroy us': Why China's actions in Xinjiang are being called genocide


While 20th century genocides were conducted with punch cards and paper ledgers, China is targeting Uyghur with state-of-the-art biometrics, surveillance systems and AI Author of the article: Tristin Hopper Publishing date: Jan 28, 2021 • 6 days ago • 5 minute read A "re-education camp"...



defence.pk


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Please have some shame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'They want to destroy us': Why China's actions in Xinjiang are being called genocide
> 
> 
> While 20th century genocides were conducted with punch cards and paper ledgers, China is targeting Uyghur with state-of-the-art biometrics, surveillance systems and AI Author of the article: Tristin Hopper Publishing date: Jan 28, 2021 • 6 days ago • 5 minute read A "re-education camp"...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


I posted it after my previous related post got deleted.


----------



## JSCh

I wonder how many times this article would be posted in PDF? I think I have come across it at least three times?

Anyway, some info from reddit about how the main witness has changed her story from a year ago.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/lc1tpv

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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> I posted it after my previous related post got deleted.


Don't lie, they are not deleted.


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## bilibili

JSCh said:


> I wonder how many times this article would be posted in PDF? I think I have come across it at least three times?
> 
> Anyway, some info from reddit about how the main witness has changed her story from a year ago.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/lc1tpv



Can we start a topic thread to save all evidence in one? if any troll post copied fake news from western or Indian media, just copy answer from the thread.


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Don't lie, they are not deleted.
> View attachment 713402


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> View attachment 713404


How do you explain this?

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## atan651

don't even read this kind of fake news or try to counter them. just ignore!

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## beijingwalker

US is deeply disturbed by Xinjiang's fast development, stability, progress and growth.


----------



## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> How do you explain this?
> View attachment 713405


Those threads are old thread's and one is a thread I open in response to the mods deleting my threads.


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## Beast

striver44 said:


> Those threads are old thread's and one is a thread I open in response to the mods deleting my threads.


Those delete must have filled with filthy language against others. I know you will spin it as silence of media freedom. And you acting innocence.


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## striver44

Beast said:


> Those delete must have filled with filthy language against others. I know you will spin it as silence of media freedom. And you acting innocence.


Filthy? Like what?

The mods are clearly doing your bidding, even a simple allegory resulted in a thread ban and my post getting deleted.

This is almost the case with everyone going against the iron brotha interests from basically every nationality here.


----------



## Chhatrapati

Arulmozhi Varman said:


> Isnt YouTube "banned" as well in 'open, transparent CPC' China?


In China, if you can run a youtube channel, it simply means the government wants you to and lets you.

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## beijingwalker

Chhatrapati said:


> In China, if you can run a youtube channel, it simply means the government wants you to and lets you.


This is the most absurd claim of the year.


striver44 said:


> Those threads are old thread's and one is a thread I open in response to the mods deleting my threads.


What you asked is also an old thread.


----------



## striver44

Time for the US to bring democracy and enlightenment to china.


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> Time for the US to bring democracy and enlightenment to china.


LOL, Trump tried ,but he eventually only brought chaos and recession to US and China is surging ahead, now it's Biden's turn.


----------



## 313ghazi

Beast said:


> @waz @WebMaster @AgNoStiC MuSliM
> 
> Please monitor this thread and some resort to name calling to try derail the accusations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC acts as a propaganda weapon by spreading lies on Xinjiang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.cgtn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at this news by BBC. Do Pakistanis
> agree with BBC reporting if u can trust it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US military to cancel $300m Pakistan aid - BBC News
> 
> 
> The Pentagon says Pakistan is failing to tackle militancy and the funds should be used elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would Pakistan support them?
> Pakistan has long been accused of using the Afghan Taliban to further its foreign policy interests in the country. The ISI first became involved in funding and training militants in Afghanistan after the Soviet invasion in 1979.
> 
> Image captionPakistan and the US are key allies - but ties have frayed in recent months
> Although since 2001 Pakistan has allowed its territory to be used to supply international troops during the war in Afghanistan, and co-operated with the West in fighting some terrorists groups like al-Qaeda, analysts say it has continued to give shelter and support to Afghan insurgents.
> 
> Its aim has been to limit the influence in Afghanistan of its chief regional rival, India



That news you posted is 2 years old, and I think many Pakistani agree that our government fails to tackle militants. In fact only a few weeks ago on this very forum we were discussing how some militants groups still have carte blanche.

Of course there are some Pakistani's who will disagree, and nearly all of oppose the USA's decision, especially considering they're actively supporting terrorism around the world. 

The thing is though - we're free to have these differences of opinion. To this day I have not seen 1 Chinese admit that there might be a problem. Hundreds of accounts of rape, torture, captivity and yet there is a uniform, orchestrated denial by all Chinese. 

I wonder what people in HK think about what is going on in Xianjing.


TheDebSahab said:


> Wtf is wrong with you?
> 
> Why soread bullshit?
> 
> This must've happened quite recently if it did. Considering the fact that I visited Turpan and Urumqi last MONTH.
> 
> There is literal ARABIC written on the SHOPS and BANKS.
> 
> Quran available to but at most if not ALL book shops. Men with beards aren't that common but I did see quite a few.
> 
> I was given Salam Muslims when they learned I'm Pakistani. Even HIJABI WOMEN were fond.
> 
> Why do you shit out bullcrap like it's a hobby?



You see, this is the problem China has. People like you have been there, seen it for yourselves, but the rest of us haven't. We just hear loads of accusations and see coordinated blanket denial. If China is not guilty then they need a massive PR campaign, not a campaign of supression on social media.


----------



## Chhatrapati

beijingwalker said:


> This is the most absurd claim of the year.


No. Tell me if all videos Chinese YouTubers posting are sunshine and rainbows of the Chinese government. Show me an Uyghur YouTuber from Chinese gulag giving us life in the concentration camp.


----------



## Beast

striver44 said:


> Filthy? Like what?
> 
> The mods are clearly doing your bidding, even a simple allegory resulted in a thread ban and my post getting deleted.
> 
> This is almost the case with everyone going against the iron brotha interests from basically every nationality here.


Not insult? Then u have way to prove your innocent? 

Here is PDF, nobody ask u to stay and post. If u are not happy with decision. Then just leave here... Blame nobody but US and western nation themselves together with their boot lickers.

They set double standard moral judgement to use as political tools to attack whoever challenge their global domination. 

China and Pakistan happened to rise up and try to change these quota where only white man can set rules and rules the global system.

They attack China and Pakistan human right record while they themselves are guilty of many stiffen of freedom and human right. Pakistanis are short of western media when Kashmir is occupied by hindu Indian and Muslim suffer. Becos hindu Indian is one major lackey of western system. They turn a blind eye to all such atrocities and ignore Pakistan plea. The 4 remaining nation even block China from raising an inquiry regard to annex of Kashmir status. 

US and western system are not welcome here.


Chhatrapati said:


> No. Tell me if all videos Chinese YouTubers posting are sunshine and rainbows of the Chinese government. Show me an Uyghur YouTuber from Chinese gulag giving us life in the concentration camp.


There is no, so how to show? While I can show Kashmir torture and camp


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## beijingwalker

Chhatrapati said:


> No. Tell me if all videos Chinese YouTubers posting are sunshine and rainbows of the Chinese government. Show me an Uyghur YouTuber from Chinese gulag giving us life in the concentration camp.


I post positive side of Xinjiang but your idea that all positive stuff must be Chinese government shills is like 3 years old.


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> @Two @beijingwalker


hey, little CIA. How is trump now?


----------



## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> LOL, Trump tried ,but he eventually only brought chaos and recession to US and China is surging ahead, now it's Biden's turn.


China needs to be enlightened. The world police is coming your way, villains always won at the start.


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> China needs to be enlightened. The world police is coming your way, villains always won at the start.


LOL, are you the world police?


----------



## Chhatrapati

beijingwalker said:


> I post positive side of Xinjiang but your idea that all positive stuff must be Chinese government shills is like 3 years old.


No for real. Why there are no Uyghur YouTubers from Chinese camps?


----------



## striver44

Beast said:


> Not insult? Then u have way to prove your innocent?
> 
> Here is PDF, nobody ask u to stay and post. If u are not happy with decision. Then just leave here... Blame nobody but US and western nation themselves together with their boot lickers.
> 
> They set double standard moral judgement to use as political tools to attack whoever challenge their global domination.
> 
> China and Pakistan happened to rise up and try to change these quota where only white man can set rules and rules the global system.
> 
> They attack China and Pakistan human right record while they themselves are guilty of many stiffen of freedom and human right. Pakistanis are short of western media when Kashmir is occupied by hindu Indian and Muslim suffer. Becos hindu Indian is one major lackey of western system. They turn a blind eye to all such atrocities and ignore Pakistan plea. The 4 remaining nation even block China from raising an inquiry regard to annex of Kashmir status.
> 
> US and western system are not welcome here.
> 
> There is no, so how to show? While I can show Kashmir torture and camp


Who are you ? A mods? Lel

I'm not a type of crybaby who uses insults and threats to make people back off, I quite remember how you threaten Pakistani members who didn't agree with you like @aziqbal 

The way you call the mods to do your bidding shows what you think of the Pakistani members here.

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## TaiShang

NiceDay said:


> I bet he is the descendant of Keling refugees living in Indonesia



Just an Indian. 

***

Seasonal workers in Xinjiang labeled by Western media as ‘forced labor’: Exclusive with French writer Maxime Vivas

US is world champion in propaganda: French writer


Published: Feb 03, 2021 06:23 PM


*






People are holding a Meshrep, a traditional Uygur community gathering, in Hami of Xinjiang. Photo: IC

Editor's Note:*


Maxime Vivas is a French writer and journalist. Based on his two visits to Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region in 2016 and 2018, he wrote a book titled _Ouïghours, pour en finir avec les fake news _(Uygurs, to put an end to the fake news), in which he described his observations regarding Xinjiang's anti-terrorism efforts and the region's development, and analyzed the relations that *the US National Endowment for Democracy has with the separatist World Uyghur Congress (WUC) and some nongovernmental organizations like Human Rights Watch (HRW). *He shone light on how these organizations colluded in concocting and spreading "genocide" accusations against China's Xinjiang. The book was published late last year in French.

Global Times (*GT*) reporters Liu Xin, Fan Lingzhi and Chen Qingqing interviewed the French writer to understand why he spent four years writing this book and his visits to Xinjiang.





French writer Maxime Vivas and his book Ouïghours, pour en finir avec les fake news. Photo: Courtesy of Maxime Vivas

*GT: Could you introduce your new book? Aside from the French version, will the book be published in English, Chinese or Uygur?

Vivas:* This book was born out of an observation of disinformation used by many French media outlets when reporting about China's Xinjiang. In this book, I want to demonstrate that the Uygur "genocide" claim is a lie. I revealed the individuals who are the enthusiasts of the lies and their links with the CIA.

I give examples of a large variety of fake news, lies, doctored photos and false testimonies. I don't give untenable conclusions, and I can prove that these are fake. For example, when Raphaël Glucksmann, a member of the European parliament made the assertion that "any Uygur who wears a beard has been sent to a 'concentration camp' in Xinjiang," I presented photos I took in Xinjiang to refute his lies.

In France, among the elected officials, writers or journalists who speak about Xinjiang, none of them has gone there. *I say what I saw. Maybe I haven't seen the whole picture about Xinjiang, but I am not making it up. I am not hiding anything that I have seen.*

Our journalists don't know what they are talking about when they talk about China's Xinjiang. *Like parrots, they only repeat lies made by Adrian Zenz, an evangelist "guided" by his faith - he once said that God ordered him to fight against China. *He is also an active figure in a *far-right anti-Communist organization.*

Zenz is hailed an "expert" on Xinjiang, but he actually created tons of lies that need months to debunk. He has no morals. For an honest man, it is humiliating to argue with such despicable person.

*The campaign against China's Xinjiang region is global*. In my book, I unveiled precisely where and when it started, and for whose interests. I hope my book would be published in many countries, like my book on the Dalai Lama, which was published in the US. My new book has been translated into Putonghua and I have been contacted by publishers in China. I hope it will be published in Putonghua, Uygur, Arabic, English and so on.

*GT: When did you get the idea of writing a book like this? What prompted you to complete it in four years?

Vivas:* Since 2016, I had written numerous articles which circulated on the internet on what I had seen in Xinjiang. In 2018, when I went to visit the region again, I witnessed the enormous progress that had been made within two years.

But I also noticed the outburst of reports on Xinjiang made by French media and how they could lie with impunity, without ever having their claims debunked.

In debates on the radio or on TV, the guests who spoke about Xinjiang were all "journalists, political scientists, experts, sinologists, high-school teachers, and so on who had something in common - they had all read Adrian Zenz' lies but none of them had been to Xinjiang. The absence of the slightest challenge to their words gave them a veneer of truth. It seems that in the radio or TV studios, they were stronger than the whole of China. A proverb says that "Every dog is a lion in his own house."

At first, I was very hesitant to write this book. I have already written an investigative book on an anti-China "NGO" - Reporters Without Borders. This has seen four threats of trials against me. I also wrote an investigative book on the Dalai Lama.

In both cases, I wrote against public opinion and the media, but I'm proud for what I did. I was hesitant about the Uygur book, because I knew I was going to be pretty much alone in France, in Europe, in telling the truth about this region of China in a book.

In my city (Toulouse) there is a bookstore which is one of the four largest ones in France. The China section is quite small, and all of the books there are anti-China books. Mine has been there ever since I asked the manager to buy it. Toulouse, please allow me to remind you, manufactures planes for Airbus, and China is a client country. A whole part of the city depends on aeronautics. In short, we could have hoped for a little empathy.

So, for this book on Uygurs, I play the role as a "suicide bomber." I told myself that I was going to spend a lot of time writing it, especially because I didn't have the right to make the slightest mistake which would serve as a pretext for others to do a "Vivas-bashing."

As the mood in the media was "China-bashing," I was unlikely to find a publisher for such a book afterwards. And this fear was premonitory. I got no response from many publishers. Fortunately, a French intellectual, Sonia Bressler, a professor of philosophy and epistemology who knew Xinjiang, appeared.

She was appalled when she saw how Xinjiang was talked about in France. She therefore established a publishing house: La route de la Soie. She did this so that there was a space of truth about China. When I offered her my manuscript, she accepted it before even reading it. For more than two months, we worked together to proofread and correct the manuscript in its smallest details.





Maxime Vivas and his working partner poses with a local resident during a visit in Xinjiang. Photo: Courtesy of Maxime Vivas

*GT: Could you share your stories of visiting Xinjiang? How long were you there? Where did you go? Had you been invited by the local government or made the decision yourself for the trips?

Vivas:* I stayed in Xinjiang for two weeks each time. The first time, in 2016, I was contacted by the Chinese Embassy in France. I was there with 40 journalists from 20 countries. The second time was in 2018. At the invitation of the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps, I went to Xinjiang with my partner. On both trips, we traveled across Xinjiang by bus and plane. We visited big cities like Urumqi, Shihezi, Kashi, and we also went to villages. During the two trips I saw farms, lots of factories and schools. I also saw mosques, theaters, museums, cultural and artistic centers. I attended grandiose shows, including one in the new theater about 50 kilometers from Urumqi, a magnificent construction of Arab-Andalusian inspiration.

I have observed incredible dynamism in the Xinjiang region. I have also seen a certain delay in its development.* I have seen citizens who do not know the language of their country (Putonghua) - I sometimes needed two interpreters when talking to them.*

And I have also seen, like I wrote in my book, *how the Chinese government is preventing more deadly terrorist attacks with strict measures. *Unlike our media, I am not hiding what I have seen, neither did I make things up.

My partner and I wrote a book about this trip, about what we saw and felt. We hope it could be published because, in an aspect of a tourist travel story, it shows the extraordinary dynamism of this region.

We did not visit any training center. The Western media hyped "concentration camps, extermination camps" and "genocide." We know that China is setting up vocational education and training centers. All countries of the world have places for common criminals and also for citizens who have been engaged in terrorist activities or who threaten to do so. *I tell in my book how ferociously France once fought terrorism and separatism, and how harshly it fights today against political Islamists.* I also tell, without hiding anything from what I know, the methods used in China to fight against "the three evil forces."





Xinjiang International Grand Bazaar in Urumqi. Photo: VCG

*GT: Some Western media are also talking about "forced labor" in Xinjiang. Have you seen forced labor in Xinjiang? What are the reasons the West makes up "forced labor" lies there?

Vivas:* Forced labor? Our media have gone too far. They said that in Xinjiang, there are "500,000 Uygur slaves in the cotton fields." Unfortunately, they could never show us satellite photos by which we would see these "unfortunate" people, probably guarded by hundreds of thousands of armed police! *In France, in my region, when the time for the harvest arrives, our wine growers call on grape pickers from Spain, Morocco, etc. They are not called "slaves," but "seasonal workers."*

I explained these at length and precisely in my book: *the "NGOs" like HRW and the WUC are funded by the US, through the CIA. *I am not telling you what I believe, but what I know. Of course, they are in contact. It's the National Endowment for Democracy that gives them the dollars.

*GT: In your opinion, do Western politicians, media and people have a clear understanding of Xinjiang? Why? How many people around you went to Xinjiang? Why are they drawing conclusions about a place they had never been to? Why does the West continue to criticize Xinjiang when the security situation in the region is at the best in recent years?

Vivas:* I know a lot of people who talk about Xinjiang, but I only know three who have been there: Sonia Bressler (my editor), my working partner and me. Everyone else who speaks or writes about Xinjiang is just repeating what people like Adrian Zenz and CIA-paid "NGOs" said.

The French media are self-intoxicating and politicians get information from these media. Not all: Jean-Luc Mélenchon, candidate for the 2022 presidential elections, refuses to bark with the pack. Twice he has let me know he is supportive of me.





Local children in Kashi Prefecture of Xinjiang. Photo: VCG

*GT: Did you receive threats for writing the book?

Vivas:* For this book, I received insults and slander. No more, it's too early. I know how it's going to turn out: the anti-Chinese clique, unable to find a lie in my book, will engage in ad hominem attacks and create a diversion by criticizing Beijing on every possible subject.

*GT: Someone may question why you wrote the book and whether you were funded by the Chinese government. What's your response to this?

Vivas:* These criticisms have been made. They used to say that I was paid by Radio La Havana (Cuba). For my book on the Dalai Lama, they said, I wrote "at the dictation of Beijing." You know liars mess up everything. The word "ethics" is unknown to them. I have a family and I would rather die than shame them with lies.

For my book on the Uygurs, I would find it normal that I get copyright for its sales in France and abroad. The readers will pay, not the Chinese government. Those who make it up offend me.

China is a great economic and military power. But for propaganda, the US is the world champion. Thanks to the US, the French know the names of the 50 states of the USA and only four Chinese regions - Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet and Xinjiang.

The French feel sorry for the people of Xinjiang in their imagination, but they never realize that the US and its allies are actually worried about the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) project that starts in China's Xinjiang.










Seasonal workers in Xinjiang labeled by Western media as ‘forced labor’: Exclusive with French writer Maxime Vivas - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn

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## beijingwalker

Chhatrapati said:


> No for real. Why there are no Uyghur YouTubers from Chinese camps?


Western media has many fake ones, what I m talking is your childish idea that everyone talks favorly about China must be a shill, that's very dumb.


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## SBUS-CXK

Chhatrapati said:


> No. Tell me if all videos Chinese YouTubers posting are sunshine and rainbows of the Chinese government. Show me an Uyghur YouTuber from Chinese gulag giving us life in the concentration camp.


But I want to see caste camps in India. And Indian Maoist camp. And Indian rape camps. And outdoor defecation camps... LOL.


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## SBUS-CXK

Yeah. In the western media. Xinjiang is worse than Syria and Libya.


denel said:


> 'Their goal is to destroy everyone': Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape
> 
> 
> In new testimony, former detainees of China's detention camps describe systematic rape and torture.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us hope PDF allows this post to show; China PLA paid trolls will be jumping on it via their bot traffic and lamenting their tears to the mods.


Yeah. In the western media. Xinjiang is worse than Syria and Libya.

But this does not change the fact that Xinjiang is more advanced and richer than your country.


striver44 said:


> China needs to be enlightened. The world police is coming your way, villains always won at the start.


Well, Western news always makes people happy.. Make Xinjiang look worse than Syria and Indonesia. But this does not seem to change the fact that Xinjiang is more developed than Indonesia.


dbc said:


> To be fair the Chinese are uniformly hard on non-conformance. We see evidence of it all around China, the sad reality is that the Uighur's have borne the brunt of Chinese recalibration because they are so different. One day the Chinese will attain enlightenment and learn to treasure diversity, diversity in thought, beliefs and ideas. China cannot, should not become all powerful until then.


In Western media, Xinjiang seems to be worse than Syria. It's true?


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## Chhatrapati

beijingwalker said:


> Western media has many fake ones, what I m talking is your childish idea that everyone talks favorly about China must be a shill, that's very dumb.


Let's say western media is lying. There are no Uyghur re-education camps (which even China agreed it exists and explained it's purpose). You're telling me, there is just a few if not one Uyghur YouTuber from Xinjiang, youtube is a lucrative job where you can make a lot of money by simply recording yourself or places. 

Maybe Uyghur people don't like to create youtube videos?


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## Beast

striver44 said:


> Who are you ? A mods? Lel
> 
> I'm not a type of crybaby who uses insults and threats to make people back off, I quite remember how you threaten Pakistani members who didn't agree with you like @aziqbal
> 
> The way you call the mods to do your bidding shows what you think of the Pakistani members here.


Typical spinning from you. It's the moderator here who ask us to call them when encounter insult and personal attack to prevent thread from degrading. And here u, trying to spin as order. I guess you must be disappointed , the moderator here didn't do what you wish them too. 

As for aziqbal, I am speaking the truth of him. His double standard judgement are well known. One side he insult China and claim as garbage but one side his pakistan side are still collaborating with China on project like tanks, fighter plane and warship. He is basically shooting his own foot. He even got the cheek to ask technical data and info from us? I really appreciate his thick skinned. 

I just remind him of his foolishness and not follow your footstep. 

You see he still uses a a China design and made JF-17 as his avatar despite the insult he throw at it.


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## SBUS-CXK

313ghazi said:


> That news you posted is 2 years old, and I think many Pakistani agree that our government fails to tackle militants. In fact only a few weeks ago on this very forum we were discussing how some militants groups still have carte blanche.
> 
> Of course there are some Pakistani's who will disagree, and nearly all of oppose the USA's decision, especially considering they're actively supporting terrorism around the world.
> 
> The thing is though - we're free to have these differences of opinion. To this day I have not seen 1 Chinese admit that there might be a problem. Hundreds of accounts of rape, torture, captivity and yet there is a uniform, orchestrated denial by all Chinese.
> 
> I wonder what people in HK think about what is going on in Xianjing.
> 
> 
> You see, this is the problem China has. People like you have been there, seen it for yourselves, but the rest of us haven't. We just hear loads of accusations and see coordinated blanket denial. If China is not guilty then they need a massive PR campaign, not a campaign of supression on social media.


1. Western media said that Uighurs were "genocidal". Who invented "genocide"? Who is responsible for mass genocide around the world. And the evidence of Uygur being "genocidal"?! Go to Google Uygur birth rate and population!!!

2. Westerners say Uighurs were raped. Who is the country with the highest crime rate in the world?

3. Suicide bombers can be shocking. More than 100000 Hong Kong people live in Shenzhen! LOL！

4. Xinjiang is still 20 years ahead of your country!


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## waz

Cease the personal argument please. 

@striver44 you have free reign here to say what you please, and the fact you're doing so now shows that. I know things are quiet at the other sub forum you guy set up regarding Indonesia, and a couple of the Indonesian members bad mouth Pakistan openly there for no reason. But don't come here to spoil our site. 

However I will agree there are a couple of Chinese members who are habitual provokers and I we've already spoken to them to change their ways or leave.


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## striver44

waz said:


> Cease the personal argument please.
> 
> @striver44 you have free reign here to say what you please, and the fact you're doing so now shows that. I know things are quiet at the other sub forum you guy set up regarding Indonesia, and a couple of the Indonesian members bad mouth Pakistan openly there for no reason. But don't come here to spoil our site.
> 
> However I will agree there are a couple of Chinese members who are habitual provokers and I we've already spoken to them to change their ways or leave.


You seems very upset for me saying this, I just hope you realize the amount of verbal insults these people has thrown at you all this time, the amount of defense you give this people results in them seeing you as a mere second fiddle. Sorry to say this, but the way this @Beast guy tag the mods on many threads show that he didn't view you as equal, I'm sure many of you felt the same too.


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## FairAndUnbiased



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## waz

striver44 said:


> You seems very upset for me saying this, I just hope you realize the amount of verbal insults these people has thrown at you all this time, the amount of defense you give this people results in them seeing you as a mere second fiddle. Sorry to say this, but the way this @Beast guy tag the mods on many threads show that he didn't view you as equal, I'm sure many of you felt the same too.



I'm not upset at all, just pointing out a few things. If you can't engage in constructive dialogue I'll stop. 
Yes he tagged the mods in, so what has happened? I talked to you and that's it. I also highlighted the issue with a couple of Chinese members.


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## striver44

waz said:


> I'm not upset at all, just pointing out a few things. If you can't engage in constructive dialogue I'll stop.
> Yes he tagged the mods in, so what has happened? I talked to you and that's it. I also highlighted the issue with a couple of Chinese members.


Ok sorry then, for being such a headache.


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## waz

striver44 said:


> Ok sorry then, for being such a headache.



No problem. Water under the bridge.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

rent4country said:


> View attachment 713353
> 
> 
> *State department says ‘atrocities’ against detained Uighur and Muslim women in region must be ‘met with serious consequences’*
> 
> 
> The United States is “deeply disturbed” by reports of systematic rape and sexual abuse against women in internment camps for ethnic Uighurs and other Muslims in China’s Xinjiang region and there must be serious consequences for atrocities committed there, the US state department has said.
> A BBC report on Wednesday said women in the camps were subject to rape, sexual abuse and torture. The British broadcaster said “several former detainees and a guard have told the BBC they experienced or saw evidence of an organised system of mass rape, sexual abuse and torture”.
> 
> A state department spokesperson said: “We are deeply disturbed by reports, including first-hand testimony, of systematic rape and sexual abuse against women in internment camps for ethnic Uighurs and other Muslims in Xinjiang.”
> 
> 
> 
> 'Our souls are dead': how I survived a Chinese 're-education' camp for Uighurs
> Read more
> 
> The spokesperson reiterated US charges that China has committed “crimes against humanity and genocide” in Xinjiang and added: “These atrocities shock the conscience and must be met with serious consequences.”
> The official said China should allow “immediate and independent investigations by international observers” into the rape allegations “in addition to the other atrocities being committed in Xinjiang.”
> 
> Beijing denies accusations of abuse in Xinjiang, and has said the complexes it set up in the region provided vocational training to help stamp out Islamist extremism and separatism. Those in the facilities have since “graduated”, it says.
> Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin said the BBC report was “wholly without factual basis” and charged that the people interviewed for it had been “proved multiple times” to be “actors disseminating false information.”
> The Biden administration has endorsed a determination made the previous day by the outgoing Trump administration that China has committed genocide in Xinjiang.
> 
> *Last year, a report by a German researcher published by a Washington thinktank accused China of using forced sterilisation, forced abortion and coercive family planning against minority Muslims.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US 'deeply disturbed' by reports of systematic rape in China's Xinjiang camps
> 
> 
> UK under renewed pressure to impose sanctions in wake of ‘clearly evil acts’ against Uighur and Muslim women
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com








I am deeply disturbed by the millions of Muslims the americans have killed since August 1990 and the countless number of Iraqi and Afghan women that have been raped and murdered by american soldiers.............

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## qwerrty

hey guys, they just revoked the broadcasting license of cgtn in the uk after exposing their lies. lol.. as if cgtn has many audiences in their country.

fake news bbc is now done in china. they better start packing up now. great news

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## Beast

qwerrty said:


> hey guys, they just revoked the broadcasting license of cgtn in the uk after exposing their lies. lol.. as if cgtn has many audiences in their country.
> 
> fake news bbc is now done in china. they better start packing up now. great news


While western will still claim they are champion of free media and they are setting great example. 

Just like they are butching other countries population but claim they uphold superior human right record.

Their level of thick skinned has no limit.

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## denel

Chhatrapati said:


> Let's say western media is lying. There are no Uyghur re-education camps (which even China agreed it exists and explained it's purpose). You're telling me, there is just a few if not one Uyghur YouTuber from Xinjiang, youtube is a lucrative job where you can make a lot of money by simply recording yourself or places.
> 
> Maybe Uyghur people don't like to create youtube videos?


When even having a koran is a crime or even fasting is landing you in jail; do you think having youtube is going to be allowed; you will be on commie blacklist and guaranteed rehabilitiation.

I fear we are seeing a mass rape issue as a weapon of war.

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## beijingwalker

denel said:


> When even having a koran is a crime


If so why there are so many bookstores sellingl Korans on Taobao?

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## dbc

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Who decides what is ‘prevented from probing too deep’?
> 
> The same Western outlets and governments that have a vested interest in preventing China’s rise and therefore retaining their hegemony over the global order? So they can go on continuing their wars resulting in perhaps millions dead, overthrowing regimes and cherry-picking despots (GCC & Arab monarchs & dictators) and regimes carrying out occupations and atrocities (Israel & India) and declaring them ‘Kosher’ and bolstering them with high tech weapons, aid, technology and legitimacy through support for memberships in prestigious international organizations?
> 
> When has China done anything even remotely close to that?



The message from US and EU has been consistent everyone needs to play by the same rules.
China does not, be it IP, trade, manufacturing and state interference in private enterprise....the list is long.

Western concern about China’s rise is legitimate principally because China have no system of checks and balances. Absolute power resides within one body (CPC) and its current leader for life. In contrast, Trump tried to ban TikTok and WeChat - he failed. The US system has prevailed against authoritarianism time and again, the architects of the US constitution build in safe guards against concentration of power and unhealthy obsession with ideals. The Chinese mock our constant internal strife - worker rights v big business, conservative v liberal values. But the beauty of this system is that a member of the Ku Klux Klan can go on to champion the first black president into the White House. No system is perfect, but the Chinese system is yet to evolve into something the world can trust.

It’s not about China’s past record, its about China’s potential to do harm. The CPC hasn’t held power outside its borders in the past. They are starting to exercise external influence and the signs aren’t good - China is demonstrably predatory so far.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

dbc said:


> It’s not about China’s past record, its about China’s potential to do harm. The CPC hasn’t held power outside its borders in the past. They are starting to exercise external influence and the signs aren’t good - China is demonstrably predatory so far.


But while you point to China's 'potential to do harm', we have in front of us decades of very real harm already done by the US and her allies and no sign of any end to the kinds of policies that led to such significant harm.
The US, based on past and current evidence, simply is not a responsible enough hyper-power to be left uncontested, which necessitates the rise of China as a counterweight in the global arena.

I'm not suggesting that China be the only power - that would have the potential of the Chinese taking on the same negative role the US currently plays - but that the rise of China is essential to balance the US and help prevent some of the US's reckless adventurism and stoking of conflict and support for regimes that continue to occupy and commit atrocities on millions of people.

The day the US stops supporting the Arab dictatorships/monarchies and Israeli & Indian occupation and atrocities in Palestine and J&K respectively will be the day I'll consider the US a responsible enough hyper-power to not require the rise of a second global power to provide balance. Till then, the US is just a hypocritical, irresponsible hyper-power, with a far longer list of actual crimes (versus the potential of crimes you argue to support your position of containing the rise of China), that is dangerous to global stability if left unchecked.

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## denel

313ghazi said:


> @waz @AgNoStiC MuSliM This guy is constantly refering to Muslim members are suicide bombers or bombs. I assume that doesn't violate forum rules or are there special rules for CPP bots?
> 
> I've been in your shoes before, there isn't enough time in the day to tackle it all, but someone has just removed two of my posts whilst leaving these 2 here. I've reported them both. @denel is right - these guys get a free hand to troll on our forum, and if we respond we get posts deleted and thread banned.
> 
> FFS gents - i expect better from you guys. You know that i'm not one of the regular trolls on this forum, but every time i post something about the Uiyghurs i get jumped on by CPP bots. These people are paid to be on our forum to do this - does that not bother anyone?
> 
> 
> View attachment 713550
> 
> 
> View attachment 713570


Thank you my friend; just now 2 simple posts challenging their narrative; had posts deleted and marked as trolling. Yet these paid chinese bots are getting a free hand to get anything any everything deleted. Is this forum now becoming a paid mouth piece of china? 

Please get a handle on this as it is not right. Crimes are crimes and we need to combat these paid trolls head on. I called for a volunteer force to take on the fight to these bots directly - let us level the playing field.

Mass incarcerations is a lie to them, torture of uighur muslims and mass rape is a lie to them, force feeding pork or even reading koran or in possession is now a crime or fasting is. Come on mods, wake up to the reality; are we now minions to these athiests?

Our scripts state - word of god is paramount to humanity; by siding with these athiests what are we doing on this forum. When Mohammad Bin Qasim was able to muster up to come over to the aid of a muslim woman in distress, what example are we setting on this forum. Food for thought for all us believers.









China Targets Muslim Scholars And Writers With Increasingly Harsh Restrictions


The intellectual heart of China's Muslim community is under threat as scholars, writers, religious leaders and their families are under constant state surveillance.




www.npr.org


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## beijingwalker

dbc said:


> Western concern about China’s rise is legitimate principally because China have no system of checks and balances.


Rise of China itself is check and balance to the west which has preyed on the world for centuries, time has come for a change.


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## Beast

denel said:


> Thank you my friend; just now 2 simple posts challenging their narrative; had posts deleted and marked as trolling. Yet these paid chinese bots are getting a free hand to get anything any everything deleted. Is this forum now becoming a paid mouth piece of china?
> 
> Please get a handle on this as it is not right. Crimes are crimes and we need to combat these paid trolls head on. I called for a volunteer force to take on the fight to these bots directly - let us level the playing field.
> 
> Mass incarcerations is a lie to them, torture of uighur muslims and mass rape is a lie to them, force feeding pork or even reading koran or in possession is now a crime or fasting is. Come on mods, wake up to the reality; are we now minions to these athiests?
> 
> Our scripts state - word of god is paramount to humanity; by siding with these athiests what are we doing on this forum. When Mohammad Bin Qasim was able to muster up to come over to the aid of a muslim woman in distress, what example are we setting on this forum. Food for thought for all us believers.



Sensation accusations to stir up Muslim emotional to achieve your agenda. We have seen american and ISIS using such trick to recruit members for them to do dirty job...









My Trip to China Exposed the Shameful Lies Peddled by the American Empire | Black Agenda Report


China is a land of bullet trains and rising standards of living, in contrast to the decay of the imperial center, the United States. “Pollution and income and wealth inequality remains problems for ‘socialism with Chinese characteristics.’”




blackagendareport.com






PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> I am deeply disturbed by the millions of Muslims the americans have killed since August 1990 and the countless number of Iraqi and Afghan women that have been raped and murdered by american soldiers.............


Members like @denel will never tell you that. He will insist the Muslim are killed by Chinese and American are angels. You shall 100% trust US media and their narrative.


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## dbc

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> But while you point to China's 'potential to do harm', we have in front of us decades of very real harm already done by the US and her allies and no sign of any end to the kinds of policies that led to such significant harm.
> The US, based on past and current evidence, simply is not a responsible enough hyper-power to be left uncontested, which necessitates the rise of China as a counterweight in the global arena.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that China be the only power - that would have the potential of the Chinese taking on the same negative role the US currently plays - but that the rise of China is essential to balance the US and help prevent some of the US's reckless adventurism and stoking of conflict and support for regimes that continue to occupy and commit atrocities on millions of people.
> 
> The day the US stops supporting the Arab dictatorships/monarchies and Israeli & Indian occupation and atrocities in Palestine and J&K respectively will be the day I'll consider the US a responsible enough hyper-power to not require the rise of a second global power to provide balance. Till then, the US is just a hypocritical, irresponsible hyper-power, with a far longer list of actual crimes (versus the potential of crimes you argue to support your position of containing the rise of China), that is dangerous to global stability if left unchecked.



I didn’t say China should be or can be contained. While you believe China is an effective counter weight to US - I think China is a partner in crime. Chinese exploitation of the regions of the world disturbed by US violence is too much of a coincidence in my mind.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

dbc said:


> I didn’t say China should be or can be contained. While you believe China is an effective counter weight to US - I think China is a partner in crime. Chinese exploitation of the regions of the world disturbed by US violence is too much of a coincidence in my mind.


I can agree with that. The level of dependence Pakistan has on China, for example, would not exist had the US played a more balanced role in the region. That said, Pakistan made a conscious decision to engage with China at the level it did after the US, once again, became an unreliable 'partner' (if it can even be called that - the US relationship with Pakistan has almost always been transactional, tactical and event driven) and I would place blame solely on the Pakistani leadership for entering into any contracts or agreements with China that allowed alleged 'exploitation'. 

But we are where we are and US foreign policy is unlikely to change, and this whole situation has turned into a self-sustaining vicious cycle. US/Western paranoia, suspicions and policies towards China in turn drive further Chinese paranoia domestically and regionally. The US continues to pursue the building of 'blocs' to 'contain China', which drives the creation of yet other 'blocs' aligned with China, with some countries trying their best to straddle the middle ground. 

Pakistan, despite its strong relationship with China, actually falls into the 'middle ground' category. There remains a strong desire at various levels of the Pakistani government, military & intelligentsia to engage with the US constructively and build long term sustainable ties and leverage a strong relationship with both China and the US to enhance Pakistan's standing globally, but the US is too caught up in propping up India to 'contain China' for that to amount to anything in the near future.


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## VCheng

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I can agree with that. The level of dependence Pakistan has on China, for example, would not exist had the US played a more balanced role in the region. That said, Pakistan made a conscious decision to engage with China at the level it did after the US, once again, became an unreliable 'partner' (if it can even be called that - the US relationship with Pakistan has almost always been transactional, tactical and event driven) and I would place blame solely on the Pakistani leadership for entering into any contracts or agreements with China that allowed alleged 'exploitation'.
> 
> But we are where we are and US foreign policy is unlikely to change, and this whole situation has turned into a self-sustaining vicious cycle. US/Western paranoia, suspicions and policies towards China in turn drive further Chinese paranoia domestically and regionally. The US continues to pursue the building of 'blocs' to 'contain China', which drives the creation of yet other 'blocs' aligned with China, with some countries trying their best to straddle the middle ground.
> 
> Pakistan, despite its strong relationship with China, actually falls into the 'middle ground' category. There remains a strong desire at various levels of the Pakistani government, military & intelligentsia to engage with the US constructively and build long term sustainable ties and leverage a strong relationship with both China and the US to enhance Pakistan's standing globally, but the US is too caught up in propping up India to 'contain China' for that to amount to anything in the near future.



It's very simple, really. Every nation pursues its own respective national interests, as best as they can, and with other nations where such interests may align for a period of time. Remember, there no permanent friends or foes in international geopolitics, only abiding national interests. After all, Pakistan played a key role in opening up China to the US, which led to the economic miracle we see today. The next phases will be just as significant.

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## TaiShang

Diplomats from some 50 countries join webinar on latest development in Xinjiang


A webinar titled "Xinjiang is a Wonderful Land" was held on Wednesday to introduce Xinjiang's natural scenery and development achievements with diplomats from more than 50 countries, including nearly 20 ambassadors, attending the event.




news.cgtn.com

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## W.11

Rare footage of former model held for “re-education” in China’s detention system - BBC News


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## beijingwalker

*China refutes BBC report on women's rights abuses in Xinjiang*

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## aziqbal

more pressure on China 

and all Muslims nations should join this movement 

China should not attain any power until its respects the religion of its citizens


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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> more pressure on China
> 
> and all Muslims nations should join this movement
> 
> China should not attain any power until its respects the religion of its citizens


LOl, you sound like the president of the world... but the real situation is China going up and the west coming down.

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## Vanguard One

The United Nations estimates that the Chinese state has detained more than one million Uighurs, the ethnic Muslim minority in China, in camps. Some, have eventually been released. But notably, Communist Party officials have shown reluctance freeing Uighur intellectuals. And according to the Uyghur Human Rights Project based in the US, hundreds of scholars, historians, artists, writers, poets, musicologists, have disappeared. Activists call what's happened a cultural genocide. Correspondent Mathias Bölinger has this report spanning Germany and Xinjiang, as he tells the story of one missing professor from the city of Kashgar. For many years, a few scientific books have been Tahir Mutällip Qahiri’s only link to his family. His father, Mutällip Sidiq Qahiri had dedicated his life to linguistics specializing in the etymology of Uyghur names.

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## beijingwalker

Western media alleged that 1 million Uyghurs were detained in China. But where did the number come from?

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## SQ8

Unfortunately, Pakistanis are enslaved to not speak of this.

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## beijingwalker

Vanguard One said:


> The United Nations estimates that the Chinese state has detained more than one million Uighurs


When did United Nations make this estimate?


SQ8 said:


> Unfortunately, Pakistanis are enslaved to not speak of this.


Not only Pakistan, Most of the non western world is siding with China

*Countries that criticized or defended China’s xinjiang policies 




*

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## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker

beijingwalker said:


> View attachment 714025


The biggest irony is not even one single Muslim country is siding with the west against China over Xinjiang, while many countries in the Chinese camp are major Muslim countries in the Muslim world such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt...

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## denel

SQ8 said:


> Unfortunately, Pakistanis are enslaved to not speak of this.


correct; anyone on this forum who speaks up - gets their posts deleted. This is the extent of censorship and subservient to China. Between Tibet, HongKong and now Xinjiang(East Turkestan) and also in inner Mongolia the same pattern is showing but against Uighur - it is now true cultural genocide with other reports of mass rapes. This is akin to Bosnians where Serbs used rape as weapon of war against muslim bosnian girls and women.

Their paid trolls are immediately going to jump and start their lunatic attacks. 

When I reported one of their fake news posts; the moderators reject it - "Let them be sir, don't loose cool over them. ".

This overall malaise is serious indifference from leadership which Pak needs to show.

I just point to the example of Mohammed Bin Qasim who came to the aid of a muslim woman who wrote of mistreatment. Who will the Uighur call out to?


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## beijingwalker

denel said:


> it is now true cultural genocide with other reports of mass rapes. This is akin to Bosnians where Serbs used rape as weapon of war against muslim bosnian girls and women.
> When I reported one of their fake news posts; the moderators reject it


You can report yourself for spreading western lies. Not even one Muslim country believes the western lies and sides with the west.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Vanguard One said:


> The United Nations estimates that the Chinese state has detained more than one million Uighurs, the ethnic Muslim minority in China, in camps. Some, have eventually been released. But notably, Communist Party officials have shown reluctance freeing Uighur intellectuals. And according to the Uyghur Human Rights Project based in the US, hundreds of scholars, historians, artists, writers, poets, musicologists, have disappeared. Activists call what's happened a cultural genocide. Correspondent Mathias Bölinger has this report spanning Germany and Xinjiang, as he tells the story of one missing professor from the city of Kashgar. For many years, a few scientific books have been Tahir Mutällip Qahiri’s only link to his family. His father, Mutällip Sidiq Qahiri had dedicated his life to linguistics specializing in the etymology of Uyghur names.






The United nations also claimed that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins...... 


beijingwalker said:


> When did United Nations make this estimate?
> 
> Not only Pakistan, Most of the non western world is siding with China
> 
> *Countries that criticized or defended China’s xinjiang policies
> View attachment 714024
> *







ALL the counties that criticised China are the SAME countries that are responsible for the deaths of over 3 million Muslims globally since August 1990..... .. the IRONY!.........


denel said:


> correct; anyone on this forum who speaks up - gets their posts deleted. This is the extent of censorship and subservient to China. Between Tibet, HongKong and now Xinjiang(East Turkestan) and also in inner Mongolia the same pattern is showing but against Uighur - it is now true cultural genocide with other reports of mass rapes. This is akin to Bosnians where Serbs used rape as weapon of war against muslim bosnian girls and women.
> 
> Their paid trolls are immediately going to jump and start their lunatic attacks.
> 
> When I reported one of their fake news posts; the moderators reject it - "Let them be sir, don't loose cool over them. ".
> 
> This overall malaise is serious indifference from leadership which Pak needs to show.
> 
> I just point to the example of Mohammed Bin Qasim who came to the aid of a muslim woman who wrote of mistreatment. Who will the Uighur call out to?






So are we supposed to believe the SAME people who also claimed that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins?...........

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## kankan326

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> The United nations also claimed that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ALL the counties that criticised China are the SAME countries that are responsible for the deaths of over 3 million Muslims globally since August 1990..... .. the IRONY!.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So are we supposed to believe the SAME people who also claimed that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins?...........


And samely their proofs are narratives only.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

kankan326 said:


> And samely their proofs are narritives only.







All make believes. Nothing more.

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## beijingwalker

*‘Victim’ in BBC report found to have changed her anti-China story multiple times*
By Global Times
Published: Feb 07, 2021 01:15 AM 






ctors playing victims from Xinjiang who frequently appear in Western media Infographic: GT

The source in the BBC’s sensational report accusing China of “mass rape” in the training centers in Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region has been found to have changed her “testimony” multiple times in the past years, especially after she was found and “supported” by a US-based-and-funded anti-China organization when she began to make the latest “rape” accusation.

Tursunay Ziawudun, the “victim” in a BBC report who recently claimed to have been gang-raped in a training center in Xinyuan county, Ili Kazak Autonomous Prefecture, first appeared in the media in October 2019. She was in Almaty, Kazakhstan at the time, and the interview she gave included no allegations of rape or harsh treatment. 

Then, in an interview released on October 15, 2019 by Radio Free Asia, one of the US government’s overseas broadcasting agencies, Tursunay made no direct claim that she had been raped. On February 15, 2020, when BuzzFeed News interviewed her, she said she was “terrified she might be raped,” but that she “wasn’t beaten or abused.” 

According to materials from a website named moonofalabama.org, in September 2020, the US-based Uyghur Human Rights Project (UHRP) picked Tursunay up and began to “use her for their agitation against China.” 

The BBC’s report released on Wednesday said the UHRP helped Tursunay get to the US where she is applying to stay. 

The UHRP is part of the US-backed World Uyghur Congress, which is generally believed to seek the fall of China. The project is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). The NED granted the UHRP a "whopping $1,244,698 between 2016 and 2019," according to the Grayzone. 

After the UHRP stepped in, Tursunay’s testimony changed and she claimed to have been raped in training centers. This claim appeared in the BBC report, along with some other small details that were different. 

For example, she said her "earrings were yanked out," where previously she had said that Police “told the women to take off their necklaces and earrings." In the BuzzFeed interview she said: “I wasn’t beaten or abused.” In her later BBC account she said she was beaten and raped.

These reports of "camps," "forced labor," "genocide" and "sexual assault" show the West's escalating hype over Xinjiang. These media reports are aimed at future political moves, an old tactic used by the Western media and governments. This is why so many people in different countries have stood up to criticize the BBC reports, Jia Chunyang, an expert at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, told the Global Times. 









‘Victim’ in BBC report found to have changed her anti-China story multiple times - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn






beijingwalker said:


> Tursunay Ziawudun, the “victim” in a BBC report who recently claimed to have been gang-raped in a training center in Xinyuan county, Ili Kazak Autonomous Prefecture, first appeared in the media in October 2019. She was in Almaty, Kazakhstan at the time, and the interview she gave included no allegations of rape or harsh treatment.


What took her over two years to give her "mass rape" stories after she first appeared on media speaking against China in 2019?

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## zectech

Compare the re-education sites in China where there is no deaths, no rapes... to US sites where the US terror regime kidnaps people and sends them to rape cells. Kids raped by "prison guards" and men and women raped by guards and other "prisoners".

*More men are raped in the US than women, figures on prison assaults reveal*
*In 2008 it was estimated 216,000 inmates assaulted in detention*









More men are raped in the US than women


In 2008, it was estimated 216,000 inmates were sexually assaulted while serving time in America, according to the Department of Justice figures.




www.dailymail.co.uk





If US can't protect people in detention centers (jails, prisons) from rape... they should not be there in the first place. More US citizens are raped in secure and protected "prisons" than are raped in the general public. There should be ZERO rapes in prison, yet US has more rapes than India. Making the US - rape-istan.


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## zectech

Slavery in the US of those kidnapped by the US "gov't" is "legal", according to the US constitution. Slavery/forced labour is still allowed in the US.

*American Slavery, Reinvented*

The Thirteenth Amendment forbade slavery and involuntary servitude, “except as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted.”









American Slavery, Reinvented


The Thirteenth Amendment forbade slavery and involuntary servitude, “except as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted.”




www.theatlantic.com





Slavery is "legal" in the US. And then the USA accuses China in giving adults job skills of forced labour.


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## zectech

There is a movement in the USA to defund the "police". Because the "police" in the USA are nothing more than slave raiders, picking up new slaves to be raped, abused and forced into labour in "prison". This is "constitutional" because slavery (legalized rape and torture and forced labour) is constitutional in the USA. USA = beacon of terrorism to the world.


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## SQ8

denel said:


> correct; anyone on this forum who speaks up - gets their posts deleted. This is the extent of censorship and subservient to China. Between Tibet, HongKong and now Xinjiang(East Turkestan) and also in inner Mongolia the same pattern is showing but against Uighur - it is now true cultural genocide with other reports of mass rapes. This is akin to Bosnians where Serbs used rape as weapon of war against muslim bosnian girls and women.
> 
> Their paid trolls are immediately going to jump and start their lunatic attacks.
> 
> When I reported one of their fake news posts; the moderators reject it - "Let them be sir, don't loose cool over them. ".
> 
> This overall malaise is serious indifference from leadership which Pak needs to show.
> 
> I just point to the example of Mohammed Bin Qasim who came to the aid of a muslim woman who wrote of mistreatment. Who will the Uighur call out to?


Rape is a common tool and yes it has been done and is ongoing - unfortunately though, the (obvious )mixing of geopolitics with these issues means that news from both ends is to be unreliable and exaggerated. AP is generally a good source but these days agencies from all sides embed themselves within these places as well.


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## dbc

beijingwalker said:


> Western media alleged that 1 million Uyghurs were detained in China. But where did the number come from?



It's the UN commission on human rights that made the claim ...not western media. Read before you ..place foot in mouth..


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## ZAMURD

I don't trust WESTERN media.
Do you believe baloch and pashtun genocide in Pakistan, if yes then i will believe this.

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## W.11

beijingwalker said:


> You can report yourself for spreading western lies. Not even one Muslim country believes the western lies and sides with the west.



Still remember that China pressured Pakistan into surrendering ''uyghur terrorists'' hiding in Pakistan many many years ago (long before re education camps and mr xi came to power) (at that time i didn't know china's issue with uyghur people), China blamed pakistan for making safe heaven for ''uyghur terrorists'' amid US WoT which was already demanding ''do more'' against haqqanis and talibans in pakistan. After the re education camp fiasco, the memories of uyghurs being pressurised to be handed over to china started making sense.






Uyghur guest houses suspected of ties to Islamist militancy - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org









__





Uyghurs in Pakistan - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





regards


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## type93

BBC has become the turkish broadcasting company


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## KurtisBrian

beijingwalker said:


> View attachment 714025



So against China are a bunch of liberal women's and minority rights Catholic/Christian nations. All those nations have a VERY long history of conflict with and animosity towards Islam. Now, those nations suddenly pretend they care about Muslim safety. I highly doubt it. All must just be a way to attack China. Islam has been the enemy of European nations for a thousand years. Those nations do NOT care about Muslims.

Should also add even if something is happening there, it is China's internal affair. China has a shortage of women. If other men have women and are not able to protect them or destroy invaders then they lose those women. tough luck

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## W.11

its interesting that a chinese can post separate threads on xinjiang in this forum and when others with ''other'' view post that its deleted or told to post in the sticky thread.

regards


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

W.11 said:


> its interesting that a chinese can post separate threads on xinjiang in this forum and when others with ''other'' view post that its deleted or told to post in the sticky thread.
> 
> regards






You can't honestly expect us to believe propaganda from the SAME people who claimed that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins?..........


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## Globenim

beijingwalker said:


> When did United Nations make this estimate?


This shill is just angry since everyone already knows about this US regime propaganda lie and how they made it up, so these shills just double down spamming that "the UN" or other actually independent real human rights organisation said so in spite.



dbc said:


> It's the UN commission on human rights that made the claim ...not western media. Read before you ..place foot in mouth..


It's the US media that made the claim citing the US regime... not the UN commission on human rights.
You can stop lying. Everyone already knows about that "UN" story thats been fabricated by US regime propaganda mouthpieces and you liars have been called out often enough.

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## dbc

Globenim said:


> It's the US media that made the claim citing the US regime... not the UN commission on human rights.
> You can stop lying. Everyone already knows about that "UN" story thats been fabricated by US regime propaganda mouthpieces and you liars have been called out often enough.



I’m a liar, the UN is a liar, all non CPC sources are liars, Human rights watch, amnesty international ...liars... 

GENEVA (Reuters) - *A United Nations human rights panel said on Friday that it had received many credible reports that 1 million ethnic Uighurs in China are held in what resembles a “massive internment camp that is shrouded in secrecy.”*









U.N. says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps


(This version of Aug. 10 story corrects name of expert in paragraph 12, fixes typographical error in paragraph 3)




www.reuters.com





UNHCR joint statement below.



https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/supporting_resources/190708_joint_statement_xinjiang.pdf

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## Globenim

dbc said:


> *Reuters*


See as I said, it's the *US media* that made the claim *citing the US regime* ... not the UN commission on human rights or any other actual UN body. We all know about this *US media *fake report. You can stop lying.


dbc said:


> UNHCR joint statement below.


I wonder why you are not quoting that and the names of the people who signed that letter. Maybe because they it says something completely different than you liars claim, because not even these *Western government officials *expressing "concerns" and citing *US regime propaganda* "reports" wanted to take any responsibility for the bold lies you spout about China. After all they have their "independent" state propaganda mouthpices for that.

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## dbc

Globenim said:


> See as I said, it's the US media that made the claim citing the US regime ... not the UN commission on human rights. You can stop lying.



Reuters quoted a UN statement claiming credible reports of human rights abuses in Xinjiang.

1. Reuters in not US media, it is European.
2. Reuters did not provide any evidence to the UN.

The UN has its own agencies independent of western media to find evidence of rights abuses around the world.

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## Globenim

dbc said:


> Reuters quoted a UN statement


The *US propaganda mouthpiece* Reuters quoted a *US government official * and lied about it being a statement from the UN to feed into the US propaganda narrative about China.
The *US government official *cited *US government agencies* fabricating these baseless reports out of thin air to feed into the US propaganda narrative about China.

We all know about this *US media *fake report. You can stop lying.

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## dbc

Globenim said:


> The *US propaganda mouthpiece* Reuters quoted a *US government official * and lied about it being a statement from the UN to feed into the US propaganda narrative about China.
> The *US government official *cited *US government agencies* fabricating these baseless reports out of thin air to feed into the US propaganda narrative about China.
> 
> We all know about this *US media *fake report. You can stop lying.



Again the report was produced by UN agencies and not Reuters.

The UN report is here...on the UN website.You are free to claim the UN is a US propaganda mouth piece ...









OHCHR | Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination reviews the report of China







www.ohchr.org


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## ThunderCat

SQ8 said:


> Unfortunately, Pakistanis are enslaved to not speak of this.


And are the Chinese enslaved not to speak of the atrocities in Balochistan & Sindh by the Pakistan government & military? Like the killing and dump policy where they take suspected political opponents, torture them and then dump their bodies in the open as a threat to anyone opposing their hegemony in the area


ZAMURD said:


> I don't trust WESTERN media.
> Do you believe baloch and pashtun genocide in Pakistan, if yes then i will believe this.


I don't know about Pashtun but Baloch & Sindhi yes. Some Pakistani Pan-Islamists told me that since Baloch & Sindhis are Muslim they are not entitled to display any separatist tendencies. Guess what happens if the Han Chinese become Muslim tommorrow? Maybe these Pan-Islamist hypocrites will suddenly shut up.


dbc said:


> I’m a liar, the UN is a liar, all non CPC sources are liars, Human rights watch, amnesty international ...liars...
> 
> GENEVA (Reuters) - *A United Nations human rights panel said on Friday that it had received many credible reports that 1 million ethnic Uighurs in China are held in what resembles a “massive internment camp that is shrouded in secrecy.”*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.N. says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps
> 
> 
> (This version of Aug. 10 story corrects name of expert in paragraph 12, fixes typographical error in paragraph 3)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNHCR joint statement below.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/supporting_resources/190708_joint_statement_xinjiang.pdf


Amnesty is a joke. They call everything human rights abuse. As long as the Western media calls it.


denel said:


> correct; anyone on this forum who speaks up - gets their posts deleted. This is the extent of censorship and subservient to China. Between Tibet, HongKong and now Xinjiang(East Turkestan) and also in inner Mongolia the same pattern is showing but against Uighur - it is now true cultural genocide with other reports of mass rapes. This is akin to Bosnians where Serbs used rape as weapon of war against muslim bosnian girls and women.
> 
> Their paid trolls are immediately going to jump and start their lunatic attacks.
> 
> When I reported one of their fake news posts; the moderators reject it - "Let them be sir, don't loose cool over them. ".
> 
> This overall malaise is serious indifference from leadership which Pak needs to show.
> 
> I just point to the example of Mohammed Bin Qasim who came to the aid of a muslim woman who wrote of mistreatment. Who will the Uighur call out to?


Why is when Muslims commit atrrocities agaisnt other Muslims like within Pakistan or in Turkey against Kurdistan, we ignore it but hypocritically become vocal against the Chinese when they allegedly do it, even though it's not proven so.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Vanguard One said:


> The United Nations estimates that the Chinese state has detained more than one million Uighurs, the ethnic Muslim minority in China, in camps. Some, have eventually been released. But notably, Communist Party officials have shown reluctance freeing Uighur intellectuals. And according to the Uyghur Human Rights Project based in the US, hundreds of scholars, historians, artists, writers, poets, musicologists, have disappeared. Activists call what's happened a cultural genocide. Correspondent Mathias Bölinger has this report spanning Germany and Xinjiang, as he tells the story of one missing professor from the city of Kashgar. For many years, a few scientific books have been Tahir Mutällip Qahiri’s only link to his family. His father, Mutällip Sidiq Qahiri had dedicated his life to linguistics specializing in the etymology of Uyghur names.


Let's all gather and worship Iron Brother. Our new abba. Pehle Amreeka tha. Ab China hai.


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## denel

ThunderCat said:


> And are the Chinese enslaved not to speak of the atrocities in Balochistan & Sindh by the Pakistan government & military? Like the killing and dump policy where they take suspected political opponents, torture them and then dump their bodies in the open as a threat to anyone opposing their hegemony in the area
> 
> I don't know about Pashtun but Baloch & Sindhi yes. Some Pakistani Pan-Islamists told me that since Baloch & Sindhis are Muslim they are not entitled to display any separatist tendencies. Guess what happens if the Han Chinese become Muslim tommorrow? Maybe these Pan-Islamist hypocrites will suddenly shut up.
> 
> Amnesty is a joke. They call everything human rights abuse. As long as the Western media calls it.
> 
> Why is when Muslims commit atrrocities agaisnt other Muslims like within Pakistan or in Turkey against Kurdistan, we ignore it but hypocritically become vocal against the Chinese when they allegedly do it, even though it's not proven so.


Well said - In Darfur, Yemen, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, KSA, Myanmar etc - The list gets longer and longer. What I saw in Yemen still haunts me today - I question at time the will of God to let his fellow beings harm others for the sake of power.

Unfortunately, you can only raise voice when you are yourself not the perpeturator of those same crimes.

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## beijingwalker

*True Uyghur tears*

China eradicated poverty by the end of 2020, many grassroots officials sent by the government with the government poverty elimination tasks had finished their assignment after years of village level administration work, many of them are being transferred to new locations for other tasks.

A Xiniiang village party secretary was leaving his job after working in the village for 4 year to had fullfilled his poverty alleviation assignment by the government, villagers of the whole village came out crying to bid farewell to their village party chief who helped them to get out of poverty.

People remember those who genuinely helped them.

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## beijingwalker

*Hospital in a small Xinjiang desert town*
Where can this hospital get enough patients in the middle of nowhere in the world second biggest desert?

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## beijingwalker

*Taiwan TV: Xinjiang Urumqi more developed, prosperous and modern looking than Taipei*

Taiwan TV anchor cries out in disbelief, Xinjiang Urumqi more developed, prosperous and modern looking than Taipei, everything looks so modern and all industries and farming in Xinjiang are highly mechanized and automated.

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## beijingwalker

The last town in Xinjiang was lifted out of poverty, It's China's westernmost tip, a small kyrgyz town on the top of Pamir Plateau. All kyrgyz villagers moved into newly built free government houses, all students moved into new schools with top facilities and free school meals and accommodations are provided.
This marks all towns and villages in Xinjiang are poverty free now.

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## beijingwalker

*Life after poverty, Tajiks live in prosperity on Pamir plateau in Xinjiang*
life has been massively improved for the Pamiri Tajiks after they moved into new government built settlements. New settlements have all the modern facilities along with top class hospitals and schools. A tourist from Shenzhen city visits a Tajik family which has 3 daughters, one is in primary school, one high school, one in college. Now almost all young people can attend college, every girl in the family has their own plans for their future, one wants to become a doctor, one wants to be a teacher and one wants to join PLA and become an army girl.

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## TaiShang

Taipei has several quite old quarters (not old in the sense of historical) that needs complete ovethaul. 

This is especially so because the ground is so shaky. In the past two nights, I was awakened in the middle by earthquake.

But the government is busy with pushing poisened US meat down people's throat.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

Chinese foreign ministry invites people from all around the world to come to visit Xinjiang and see things with own eyes.
*中国外交部：欢迎外国各界参访新疆 亲眼见证发展 |《中国新闻》CCTV中文国际*

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## striver44

*Behind The Camps’ Gates: Rape And Sexual Violence Against Uyghur Women*



Ewelina U. OchabContributor
Policy
Over the recent years, several news outlets reported on the dire situation of the Uyghur Muslims in China who were being detained in camps for “re-education purposes.” This was followed by in-depth research suggesting that these minority communities are subjected to violence and abuse, modern day slavery and women are subjected to forced sterilization. Chinese Communist Party (CCP) continues to deny these allegations. Despite some international focus, the alleged atrocities did not stop, and did not stop at mass incarceration, forced labor, forces sterilizations and forced abortions. Reports of rape and sexual violence followed. According to a new report by the _BBC_, “Women in China's ‘re-education’ camps for Uyghurs have been systematically raped, sexually abused, and tortured.”





This photo taken on May 31, 2019 shows a watchtower on a high-security facility near what is ... [+]
AFP VIA GETTY IMAGES
Among the testimonies obtained by the _BBC_, Tursunay Ziawudun, who fled Xinjiang to the U.S., stated that “women were removed from the cells ‘every night’ and raped by one or more masked Chinese men.” She added that she was tortured and gang-raped three times in the camp. There are more stories like that. Indeed, Qelbinur Sedik, an Uzbek woman from Xinjiang who was teaching Chinese in the camp, recalled one Uyghur woman saying that “The rape has become a culture. It is gang rape and the Chinese police not only rape them but also electrocute them. They are subject to horrific torture.” Another teacher, Sayragul Sauytbay, said that guards “picked the girls and young women they wanted and took them away.”
Another woman, Gulzira Auelkhan, testified that the very job she was forced to do was to “remove their clothes (...) and handcuff them so they cannot move. Then I would leave the women in the room and a man would enter - some Chinese man from outside or policeman. I sat silently next to the door, and when the man left the room I took the woman for a shower.” She added that these men “would pay money to have their pick of the prettiest young inmates.”
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*Every Child Deserves To Be Seen, Safe, And Successful*

Torture and physical abuse were also common. Ziawudun, a 42 year-old Uyghur woman testified how she was subjected to abuse: “They had an electric stick, I didn't know what it was, and it was pushed inside my genital tract, torturing me with an electric shock.”
The CCP has not commented on the _BBC_ reporting yet. However, it is expected that the allegations will be denied. Indeed, in a recent statement challenging allegations of forced sterilization and forced abortions, the Chinese Embassy in the U.S. tweeted that a “study shows that in the process of eradicating extremism, the minds of Uyghur women in Xinjiang were emancipated and gender equality and reproductive health were promoted, making them no longer baby-making machines. They were more confident and independent.” The tweet aims to portray the forced sterilizations and forced abortions as emancipation of women. The post was since removed by Twitter for violating Twitter’s rules. 
MORE FOR YOU
*British Lawyers Find Credible Evidence Of Genocide Against The Uyghurs In Xinjiang*
*How The U.S. Should Respond To The Coup In Burma*
*Klobuchar And Kaine: Spend Money To Plan To Spend Money On Housing?*
Despite these severe allegations that point towards international crimes, as genocide or crimes against humanity, the international community has done little to ensure that the alleged atrocities are investigated and those responsible brought to justice. International bodies, such as the United Nations, have been greatly silent, with a few meaningless statements that do not follow with decisive actions to change the fate of the targeted communities.
What other evidence needs to be brought to light before the international community wakes up and acts?









Behind The Camps’ Gates: Rape And Sexual Violence Against Uyghur Women


Reports of rape and sexual violence followed. According to a new report by the BBC, “Women in China's ‘re-education’ camps for Uyghurs have been systematically raped, sexually abused, and tortured.”




www.forbes.com


----------



## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> *Behind The Camps’ Gates: Rape And Sexual Violence Against Uyghur Women*
> 
> 
> 
> Ewelina U. OchabContributor
> Policy
> Over the recent years, several news outlets reported on the dire situation of the Uyghur Muslims in China who were being detained in camps for “re-education purposes.” This was followed by in-depth research suggesting that these minority communities are subjected to violence and abuse, modern day slavery and women are subjected to forced sterilization. Chinese Communist Party (CCP) continues to deny these allegations. Despite some international focus, the alleged atrocities did not stop, and did not stop at mass incarceration, forced labor, forces sterilizations and forced abortions. Reports of rape and sexual violence followed. According to a new report by the _BBC_, “Women in China's ‘re-education’ camps for Uyghurs have been systematically raped, sexually abused, and tortured.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This photo taken on May 31, 2019 shows a watchtower on a high-security facility near what is ... [+]
> AFP VIA GETTY IMAGES
> Among the testimonies obtained by the _BBC_, Tursunay Ziawudun, who fled Xinjiang to the U.S., stated that “women were removed from the cells ‘every night’ and raped by one or more masked Chinese men.” She added that she was tortured and gang-raped three times in the camp. There are more stories like that. Indeed, Qelbinur Sedik, an Uzbek woman from Xinjiang who was teaching Chinese in the camp, recalled one Uyghur woman saying that “The rape has become a culture. It is gang rape and the Chinese police not only rape them but also electrocute them. They are subject to horrific torture.” Another teacher, Sayragul Sauytbay, said that guards “picked the girls and young women they wanted and took them away.”
> Another woman, Gulzira Auelkhan, testified that the very job she was forced to do was to “remove their clothes (...) and handcuff them so they cannot move. Then I would leave the women in the room and a man would enter - some Chinese man from outside or policeman. I sat silently next to the door, and when the man left the room I took the woman for a shower.” She added that these men “would pay money to have their pick of the prettiest young inmates.”
> PROMOTED
> Deloitte BRANDVOICE | Paid Program
> *The Key To Organizational Resilience Is Planning Ahead: Here’s Why Some Organizations Fared Better Than Others During The Pandemic*
> 
> UNICEF USA BRANDVOICE | Paid Program
> *UNICEF Reports: Over 39 Billion Meals Missed Since Schools Shut Down*
> 
> Civic Nation BRANDVOICE | Paid Program
> *Every Child Deserves To Be Seen, Safe, And Successful*
> 
> Torture and physical abuse were also common. Ziawudun, a 42 year-old Uyghur woman testified how she was subjected to abuse: “They had an electric stick, I didn't know what it was, and it was pushed inside my genital tract, torturing me with an electric shock.”
> The CCP has not commented on the _BBC_ reporting yet. However, it is expected that the allegations will be denied. Indeed, in a recent statement challenging allegations of forced sterilization and forced abortions, the Chinese Embassy in the U.S. tweeted that a “study shows that in the process of eradicating extremism, the minds of Uyghur women in Xinjiang were emancipated and gender equality and reproductive health were promoted, making them no longer baby-making machines. They were more confident and independent.” The tweet aims to portray the forced sterilizations and forced abortions as emancipation of women. The post was since removed by Twitter for violating Twitter’s rules.
> MORE FOR YOU
> *British Lawyers Find Credible Evidence Of Genocide Against The Uyghurs In Xinjiang*
> *How The U.S. Should Respond To The Coup In Burma*
> *Klobuchar And Kaine: Spend Money To Plan To Spend Money On Housing?*
> Despite these severe allegations that point towards international crimes, as genocide or crimes against humanity, the international community has done little to ensure that the alleged atrocities are investigated and those responsible brought to justice. International bodies, such as the United Nations, have been greatly silent, with a few meaningless statements that do not follow with decisive actions to change the fate of the targeted communities.
> What other evidence needs to be brought to light before the international community wakes up and acts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Behind The Camps’ Gates: Rape And Sexual Violence Against Uyghur Women
> 
> 
> Reports of rape and sexual violence followed. According to a new report by the BBC, “Women in China's ‘re-education’ camps for Uyghurs have been systematically raped, sexually abused, and tortured.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


I remember last time you complain that Chinese posters started seperate threds about Xinjiang and Uighur instead of merging all related posts in one mega Xinjiang thread. and now you are doing what you complained about before.


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> I remember last time you complain that Chinese posters started seperate threds about Xinjiang and Uighur instread of merging all related posts in one mega Xinjiang thread. and now you are doing what you complained about before.


You should ask the mods why are they banning me from posting in the Xinjiang threads.

@AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz @WebMaster


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> You should ask the mods why are they banning me from posting in the Xinjiang threads.
> 
> @AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz @WebMaster


I m not a mod , I just want to know why you complain about Chinese posters starting seperate threads while you are doing the same?


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> But why did you complain about Chinese posters starting seperate threads while you are doing the same? Y


Because the mods has a habit of deleting anti CCP narratives while letting propagandist post irrelevant news about Uyghurs girls.


beijingwalker said:


> I m not a mod , I just want to know why you complain about Chinese posters starting seperate threads while you are doing the same?


They thread ban me after I complained.


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> Because the mods has a habit of deleting anti CCP narratives while letting propagandist post irrelevant news about Uyghurs girls.
> 
> They thread ban me after I complained.


I m not a mod , I got banned many often than you in PDF. So next time don't complain when we do what you did.


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> I m not a mod , I got banned many often than you in PDF. So next time don't complain when we do what did.


Off course I will complain, it's against forum rules.


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> Off course I will complain, it's against forum rules.


If starting new threads about Xinjiang is against the forum rules, where you are doing now?


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> If starting new threads about Xinjiang against the forum rules, where you are doing now?


That's because the mods have been thread banning me in the Xinjiang threads, you're not. So you should follow the rules.


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> That's because the mods have been thread banning me in the Xinjiang threads, you're not. So you should follow the rules.


I got banned more often than you in PDF. and I should follow the rules and you don't have to? Man, you lost your sanity.


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> I got banned more often than you. and I should follow the rule and you don't have to? Man, you lost your sanity.


I'll follow the rule once they lift their ban on me on the Xinjiang thread.


----------



## OBLiTeRate TrumpTurd

To all those *SLAVES * VuucckkHead around the world* who have *been brainwashed by those 5 Eyes western nations led by You--Know--Who* and *who INTENTIONALLY refuse to believe* that ... *Uyghur people is PROSPERING in XinJiang, CHN*.


*Thousand Thanks to Genuine Personal Testimonies 
from all those WONDERFUL UYGHUR Ladies below*:







Proof:
Watch the testimonies from all these UYGHUR Ladies below:


----------



## Uncensored

By foreign affairs reporter Stephen Dziedzic 
Posted Wednesday 3 FebFebruary 2021 at 6:31pm, updated 6ddays ago 





Recent research suggests China has been expanding its network of detention facilities for Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities.(Maxar Via Google Earth) 


Uyghur advocacy groups have renewed calls for the international community to take action after the BBC published horrifying new accounts of rape and torture in China's network of internment camps in Xinjiang.

*WARNING: Some people may find the contents in this article distressing.*

*Key points:*

One woman told the BBC that she was tortured and gang-raped on three occasions by Chinese men
Another said she was tortured by guards who raped them with electrified sticks
The accusations drew a horrified response from several Australian Government MPs
The BBC spoke to several women who said they had been subjected to systematic sexual violence, torture and rape from guards in the camp.

The broadcaster also said it spoke to a former guard who confirmed he had seen prisoners subjected to beatings, as well as being tortured with electric shocks.

Many of the accounts were extremely graphic.

One woman told the BBC that she was tortured and gang-raped on three occasions by Chinese men.

Another said she was forced to strip Uyghur women naked and handcuff them before they were raped by guards.

A third said some women had been tortured by guards who raped them with electrified sticks.


Nurgul Sawut from the group Campaign for Uyghurs said it would have been extremely difficult for the women to recount their experiences.



> "For Uyghur women, speaking about their rape experience is worse than death," she told the ABC.


"But we have many Uyghur sisters [who] put aside their pride and spoke out."

Ms Sawut said the BBC report was further evidence of mass human rights abuses in the network of camps.

"Chinese policemen and camp staff and their methods of conducting sexual abuse and torture towards Uyghur women are the same and consistent," she said.



> "Their common methods are: gang rape, attacks on Uyghur women's dignity and selling Uyghur women as sex slaves."


*Evidence 'leaves no room for doubt'*

The accusations drew a horrified response from several Australian Government MPs, including parliamentarians who are part of the Inter Parliamentary Alliance on China.

*How China is creating the world’s largest prison | Four Corners




*

Labor Senator Kimberly Kitching said the BBC report "documents some of the most horrific and unspeakable human rights abuses we've seen in recent memory."

"The weight of the evidence steadily coming out of the Xinjiang region leaves no room for doubt as to the oppression Uyghur and other ethnic minorities are living under," she said.

Liberal Senator James Paterson said the program had brought the Chinese Communist Party "into further disrepute" and would "rightly horrify the world."



> "We must be united in our denunciation of these violations of the Uyghur people," he told the ABC.



China has repeatedly denied that it is persecuting ethnic groups in Xinjiang, although recent research suggests it has been expanding its network of detention facilities for Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities.

The Chinese embassy in Canberra responded by excoriating one of the researchers who provided material to the BBC, Adrian Zenz, accusing him of "spreading rumours to slander and even demonise China."

"[Zenz] is keen to concoct rumours about Xinjiang and slander China, and his relevant reports and remarks have long been proved to be falsehoods," the embassy said.

"His reports don't have the slightest of credibility and academic integrity."

Posted 3 FebFebruary 2021, updated 6ddays ago









'Gang rape, sex slaves': Uyghur advocates renew call for action against China after horrifying BBC story


Uyghur advocacy groups renew calls for the international community to take action after the BBC publishes horrifying new accounts of rape and torture in China's network of internment camps in Xinjiang.




www.abc.net.au

Reactions: Angry Angry:
1


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## FairAndUnbiased

People believe what they want to believe despite the weight of the evidence. In that case the only remaining option is confrontation and justified self defense by any means necessary to ensure the existence and prosperity of our people.


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## Goenitz

Where is US? I recommend that the US should attack China or stop trade at least. 
But it cannot do any? So it must keep its mouth shut. They want to stir the muslims sentiments so that US can fight another war, on somebody else shoulder, far from the mainland.


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## Globenim

> The usual US state propaganda agencies recycle lazy propaganda lies about China after the usual British state propaganda mouthpiece recycles lazy propaganda lies about China citing "new" piles of recycled lazy propaganda lies from the usual US and British state affiliated US and British weapon manufacturer run propaganda agencies.


🙄

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Uncensored said:


> By foreign affairs reporter Stephen Dziedzic
> Posted Wednesday 3 FebFebruary 2021 at 6:31pm, updated 6ddays ago
> 
> View attachment 715308
> 
> Recent research suggests China has been expanding its network of detention facilities for Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities.(Maxar Via Google Earth)
> 
> 
> Uyghur advocacy groups have renewed calls for the international community to take action after the BBC published horrifying new accounts of rape and torture in China's network of internment camps in Xinjiang.
> 
> *WARNING: Some people may find the contents in this article distressing.*
> 
> *Key points:*
> 
> One woman told the BBC that she was tortured and gang-raped on three occasions by Chinese men
> Another said she was tortured by guards who raped them with electrified sticks
> The accusations drew a horrified response from several Australian Government MPs
> The BBC spoke to several women who said they had been subjected to systematic sexual violence, torture and rape from guards in the camp.
> 
> The broadcaster also said it spoke to a former guard who confirmed he had seen prisoners subjected to beatings, as well as being tortured with electric shocks.
> 
> Many of the accounts were extremely graphic.
> 
> One woman told the BBC that she was tortured and gang-raped on three occasions by Chinese men.
> 
> Another said she was forced to strip Uyghur women naked and handcuff them before they were raped by guards.
> 
> A third said some women had been tortured by guards who raped them with electrified sticks.
> 
> 
> Nurgul Sawut from the group Campaign for Uyghurs said it would have been extremely difficult for the women to recount their experiences.
> 
> 
> "But we have many Uyghur sisters [who] put aside their pride and spoke out."
> 
> Ms Sawut said the BBC report was further evidence of mass human rights abuses in the network of camps.
> 
> "Chinese policemen and camp staff and their methods of conducting sexual abuse and torture towards Uyghur women are the same and consistent," she said.
> 
> 
> *Evidence 'leaves no room for doubt'*
> 
> The accusations drew a horrified response from several Australian Government MPs, including parliamentarians who are part of the Inter Parliamentary Alliance on China.
> 
> *How China is creating the world’s largest prison | Four Corners
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Labor Senator Kimberly Kitching said the BBC report "documents some of the most horrific and unspeakable human rights abuses we've seen in recent memory."
> 
> "The weight of the evidence steadily coming out of the Xinjiang region leaves no room for doubt as to the oppression Uyghur and other ethnic minorities are living under," she said.
> 
> Liberal Senator James Paterson said the program had brought the Chinese Communist Party "into further disrepute" and would "rightly horrify the world."
> 
> 
> 
> China has repeatedly denied that it is persecuting ethnic groups in Xinjiang, although recent research suggests it has been expanding its network of detention facilities for Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities.
> 
> The Chinese embassy in Canberra responded by excoriating one of the researchers who provided material to the BBC, Adrian Zenz, accusing him of "spreading rumours to slander and even demonise China."
> 
> "[Zenz] is keen to concoct rumours about Xinjiang and slander China, and his relevant reports and remarks have long been proved to be falsehoods," the embassy said.
> 
> "His reports don't have the slightest of credibility and academic integrity."
> 
> Posted 3 FebFebruary 2021, updated 6ddays ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Gang rape, sex slaves': Uyghur advocates renew call for action against China after horrifying BBC story
> 
> 
> Uyghur advocacy groups renew calls for the international community to take action after the BBC publishes horrifying new accounts of rape and torture in China's network of internment camps in Xinjiang.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.abc.net.au








Funny how abc mentioned nothing about australian troops murdering and committing war crimes against Afghan civilians......... :





__





Redirect Notice






www.google.co.uk

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## master_13

Love how Uyghur "speak out", Besides "she says he says" as evidence against China, has US and others been able to produce one single concrete evidence of genocide and systematic rape yet? There are so many western vloggers who recently travelled to Xinjiang and posted on youtube, why can't these same anti-china Americans and other westerners just go there and try to find mass graves, mass rape victims themselves? If western vloggers can freely go to xinjiang and bring videos back and post online, I'm sure these anti-china people can do the same? why can't they produce one single concrete evidence of genocide and systematic rape to date? Why only interview and talk to people who clearly have anti-china agenda? Should china also interview BLM protesters and conclude US is now genociding blacks?


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## Clutch

Uncensored said:


> WARNING: Some people may find the contents in this article distressing



Lol... There is nothing here in this "article"... Just like Iraq's Weapons of Mass Distraction...


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## Adonis

Goenitz said:


> Where is US? I recommend that the US should attack China or stop trade at least.
> But it cannot do any? So it must keep its mouth shut. They want to stir the muslims sentiments so that US can fight another war, on somebody else shoulder, far from the mainland.


Oh US should do it?...What about Muslim Ummah ? and Pakistan...which is the biggest advocate of Muslim atrocities in Kashmir/Palestine.....but no..... it's China this time...better to keep Mum and close eyes...right?


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## CAPRICORN-88

_This is the reason why UK Ofcom refused to issue a broadcasting licence to CGTN in Britain. 

BBC is similarly owned by the British Government and has been the sources of many fake news, should China similarly ban them?

The West esp. USA and Britain talks about Freefom of Press and expression. 
Now I understand what it means. 
Talk only.    

Their propaganda and lies are systematically dismantled by China News Media and they can't face the truth and facts as they are presented. _

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Char

Xinjiang is no longer a problem in China, so whatever fake news you make it makes no sense.


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## CAPRICORN-88




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## CAPRICORN-88




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## Goenitz

Adonis said:


> Oh US should do it?...What about Muslim Ummah ? and Pakistan...which is the biggest advocate of Muslim atrocities in Kashmir/Palestine.....but no..... it's China this time...better to keep Mum and close eyes...right?


US and west have no sympathise for Muslims especially and in general for human rights. They armed FSA to teeth so to create unrest in Syria. They killed, rape Iraqis and then pardoned the culprits. They armed Taliban to fight Soviets and then abandoned locals to suffer. 
In Uyghur case, they want to motivate Muslims on religion that Chinese are beast, rapist, killers etc so fight them, with no proof. Then they want to armed Tajik, Uyghur, etc to fight China. So that no one can challenge US hegemony. 
Just google yourself the Chinese Al-Qaedah and wonder who armed them.

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## tower9

Goenitz said:


> Where is US? I recommend that the US should attack China or stop trade at least.
> But it cannot do any? So it must keep its mouth shut. They want to stir the muslims sentiments so that US can fight another war, on somebody else shoulder, far from the mainland.


The US is already attacking China by spearheading this fabricated propaganda campaign. Google the sources, this same woman claimed three years ago that she saw no violence during her detainment yet her story progressively changes over the course of three years.

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## Dac O Dac

It's very strange not to heard Erdogan on this !

He prefers to give some lessons to french President about internal french affairs.

Not very courageous the Recep....


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## W.11

Adonis said:


> Oh US should do it?...What about Muslim Ummah ? and Pakistan...which is the biggest advocate of Muslim atrocities in Kashmir/Palestine.....but no..... it's China this time...better to keep Mum and close eyes...right?



If there was a muslim ummah would they have let US attack Afghanistan and Iraq, syria, yemen and libya?

reality is there is no ummah, kashmir cause is mainly picked up by pakistan, the main party to it and not other muslim countries, same goes for palestine which has been rendered completely helpless by majority arab states in the formal of normalzation, US also encourages genocides and war crimes of the israelis, it supplies arms to israel for heaven's sake.

US tbh just like others was the main perp in uyghur genocide, it made china create a ''waron terror'' bogeyman which enabled china to construct a narrative which it could use in the west for its illegal actions in xinjiang, if US and allies had not done that, china would have never reached this far, so main culprit is the west here again, just read how islamophobic your media is, does it really sound like US or its allies have any grain of sympathy towards muslims? no they dont, they are only exposing china because of political advantage, china has become a threat to their political dominance hence explotation of uyhgur issue, if not for that, they wouldn't care less.

regards

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## tower9

Dac O Dac said:


> It's very strange not to heard Erdogan on this !
> 
> He prefers to give some lessons to french President about internal french affairs.
> 
> Not very courageous the Recep....


Because he knows this is a CIA agitprop campaign and he needs China’s financial and technological help in order to further his neo ottoman ambitions.
Once you realize the actual facts in operation, then it all makes sense. If you believe neoliberal propaganda, the world is a confusing place.

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## W.11

tower9 said:


> Because he knows this is a CIA agitprop campaign and he needs China’s financial and technological help in order to further his neo ottoman ambitions.
> Once you realize the actual facts in operation, then it all makes sense. If you believe neoliberal propaganda, the world is a confusing place.



tbh, either you are on western bloc, or chinese/russian/eastern bloc, one cannot cut both of them and expect to remain politically viable. If Erdogan manages to make another bloc for instance in the middle east then this would be a third option but in the mean time, its impossible.

regards


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## tower9

W.11 said:


> tbh, either you are on western bloc, or chinese/russian/eastern bloc, one cannot cut both of them and expect to remain politically viable. If Erdogan manages to make another bloc for instance in the middle east then this would be a third option but in the mean time, its impossible.
> 
> regards


I don’t agree. The world is headed towards multilateralism with many competing poles. In Eurasia, this will be heavily pronounced. It will be a very grey world, not black and white.

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## Suriya




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## Dac O Dac

tower9 said:


> CIA agitprop campaign


source please?


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## tower9

Dac O Dac said:


> source please?


I don’t have time to look for it but look up uighurs on greyzone.com. There are plenty other sources as well but they won’t be found on mainstream media.


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## CAPRICORN-88




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## dbc

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>



LOL the cop has SWAT printed on the back of his shirt..
SWAT is special weapons and tactics why is a beat cop wearing that shirt?


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## CAPRICORN-88




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## CAPRICORN-88




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## CAPRICORN-88

dbc said:


> LOL the cop has SWAT printed on the back of his shirt..
> SWAT is special weapons and tactics why is a beat cop wearing that shirt?


_Simple. 
He is really a member of China SWAT team.
He is alone and unarmed.
He may be off duty and talking to his friends. Who knows? 
The people he was talking don't seemed to be bothered by his presence nor got harassed. 

I have personally seen them in the streets in USA but they looked far more menacing with their submachine guns. 
How about says a guy in firefighter uniform? Are you equally alarmed if by his presence. 

So are they allow to be on the street? 
What is your point? 
Who told you he is a beat cop? 

My point in here is equally simple. 
Live your life with your eyes open and not closed. What most ordinary folks want is just a secure and peaceful life?

if you want to save the world or spread your ideologies, starts by doing it at your own homes instead. 

Example. 
i don't care what is happening to the mass farmers protests in India or the military takeover in Myanmar today. 

IMO all democracy is fake in this world.
Look at USA, after Trump, USA democracy is nothing but a joke. A US President who sign executive orders to bypass US Congress and shut down the US Government to blackmail US Congress over the funding for the Mexican Wall. 

Myanmar belongs to the Myanmar people. 
Let them deal with it by themselves.  _


----------



## dbc

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _Simple.
> He is really a member of China SWAT team.
> He is alone and unarmed.
> He may be off duty and talking to his friends. Who knows?
> The people he was talking don't seemed to be bothered by his presence nor got harassed.
> 
> I have personally seen them in the streets in USA but they looked far more menacing with their submachine guns.
> How about says a guy in firefighter uniform? Are you equally alarmed if by his presence.
> 
> So are they allow to be on the street?
> What is your point?
> Who told you he is a beat cop? _



...because in the US we do not see police offices wearing a SWAT uniform in public unless they are intervening to resolve a crisis.
SWAT officers only show up when armed intervention is required example a bank robbery.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

dbc said:


> ...because in the US we do not see police offices wearing a SWAT uniform in public unless they are intervening to resolve a crisis.
> SWAT officers only show up when armed intervention is required example a bank robbery.



_OK. Each country to its own. 
As I have always said and practiced, we must respect the law of the land of any countries we are in. 
That is why, I have always refrain from making any comment or judgment when I travel oversea, right or wrong. 

Example. 
i'll never understand why Indian Policemen must beat protesters or workers on strike with big rotans and sticks. They never did anything. 

My Indian host explained to me in a single sentence. 
"So that they don't fall into a trance."
Really! A trance and I fall into laughters. _


----------



## TaiShang

Uygur baby receives liver transplant from father


A 10-month-old boy from Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region received a successful liver transplant in S




www.shine.cn





A 10-month-old boy from Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region received a successful liver transplant in Shanghai on Wednesday with the help of his father’s donated organ. 

Both are recovering well, doctors said today.
The boy, whose skin turned yellow when he was two months old, was diagnosed with cirrhosis, abnormal liver function and congenital biliary atresia — *a common disease that affects one in every 10,000 newborns. Liver transplants are the only option for those in the terminal stage.*

His parents are farmers who sold their fields and took the baby to Urumqi, where doctors suggested they go to a hospital in a big city.
The family took the boy to Fudan University’s Children’s Hospital in Shanghai on January 18, where the boy arrived in critical condition in immediate needs of a liver transplant.

*With the help of a WeChat group consisting of doctors in the children’s hospital and Shanghai’s Huashan Hospital on liver transplant, medical staff in the two hospitals conducted good cooperation, pre-surgery preparation and arrangement for the patient, *who was transferred to Huashan on February 9 for liver transplant surgery.

Dr Wang Zhengxin of Huashan Hospital said his team began preparing soon after the boy arrived in Shanghai. Dr Cheng Gong from the children’s hospital sent the patient’s information and medical test results to the WeChat group in time for all the doctors to learn about his condition prior to surgery.

Fortunately, the father is a match to the boy.
The father's 231-gram liver was harvested within two hours and transplanted into the boy immediately thereafter. The entire surgery lasted six hours.

The boy was then transferred to the children’s hospital’s intensive care unit for after-surgery treatment and rehabilitation. Hospital officials said the boy is in stable condition and his vital signs are good.

Local doctors also helped the family apply to *a charitable foundation to cover the medical expenses *and arranged volunteers to streamline communication between doctors and the Uygur couple.

Huashan Hospital’s liver transplant team has treated more than 200 children. In addition to treating young people, they also set up WeChat groups for adults with thousands of members who inform doctors about their conditions and share experiences with others.






Ti Gong

Hospital officials said the boy is in stable condition and his vital signs are good.

Source: SHINE Editor: Cai Wenjun

Reactions: Like Like:
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## xuxu1457

CNN Journalist in China Colver talking about Xinjiang, although he doesn't know where Xinjiang is.
Xinjiang has moved thousands of kilometers.


----------



## Beast

SQ8 said:


> Unfortunately, Pakistanis are enslaved to not speak of this.


More like they are not bother to speak on fake news.






The mass rape, sterilization, Han Chinese sleep with Uighur families and million of Uighur enslave in concentration camp... If you can trust on these western media. The balochistan genecide or pashtun atrocities reported western media shall also be trusted, right?


----------



## beijingwalker

*Is "Uyghur RAPE" a lie (2021) like the Iraq "throwing babies" was a lie (1990)? Compare





*

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## beijingwalker

*China's 'Muslim Question'*


----------



## X-ray Papa

beijingwalker said:


> *Is "Uyghur RAPE" a lie (2021) like the Iraq "throwing babies" was a lie (1990)? Compare
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


In that case why are you locking them up?


----------



## beijingwalker

X-ray Papa said:


> In that case why are you locking them up?


Do you really believe Xinjiang can develop and progress this fast by locking up the local population?


----------



## Jackdaws

Full article - 









Allegations of shackled students and gang rape inside China's detention camps


On the first day of her new teaching job at a Chinese government-run detention center in Xinjiang, Qelbinur Sidik said she saw two soldiers carry a young Uyghur woman out of the building on a stretcher.




edition.cnn.com






(CNN)On the first day of her new teaching job at a Chinese government-run detention center in Xinjiang, Qelbinur Sidik said she saw two soldiers carry a young Uyghur woman out of the building on a stretcher.
"There was no spark of life in her face. Her cheeks were drained of color, she was not breathing," said Sidik, a former elementary school teacher who says she was forced to spend several months teaching at two detention centers in Xinjiang in 2017.
A policewoman who worked at the camp later told her the woman had died from heavy bleeding, though she didn't say what caused it. It was the first of many stories the policewoman would tell Sidik during the teacher's three-month assignment at the heavily-fortified building that housed female detainees.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## j20611

Except that you people Gang rape 9 year olds

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1361547326762799105

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Jackdaws

j20611 said:


> Except that you people Gang rape 9 year olds
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1361547326762799105


Please stick to the thread an don't derail it. You can open multiple threads for your fetishes and fantasies.


----------



## j20611

Jackdaws said:


> Please stick to the thread an don't derail it. You can open multiple threads for your fetishes and fantasies.


Nice try on trying to hide your pedophile tendencies but the truth is you’re the ones that have pedo fantasies








Demand for child pornography in India spiked since lockdown: ICPF, IT Security News, ET CISO


An alarming rise in the demand for child pornography material (also referred to as 'Child Sexual Abuse Material') has been seen ever since the Covid-19 induced lockdown was enforced, the India Child Protection Fund (ICPF) claimed on Monday.




ciso.economictimes.indiatimes.com

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## Globenim

So the usual tiny club of visa, money and liberation from US detention camps like Guantanamo for lies about China "victims" who are simultaneously oppressed but also running the oppression operation at conveniently every facility in every Chinese city in Xinjiang first hand themself and are simultaniously incarcerated in camps but also flying around the world as tourists and receiving Chinese state funded higher education, once again years after leaving China (some of them never even been there) suddenly remembered yet another convenient shocking unprovable story about China that conveniently targets a region and governmen the US regime has expressed and shown interest to destabilize and the usual nations of gangrapists and Muslim massmurderers suddenly remember how much they care about the wellbeing and rights of Muslims again, says US state run media.


----------



## khansaheeb

Jackdaws said:


> Full article -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allegations of shackled students and gang rape inside China's detention camps
> 
> 
> On the first day of her new teaching job at a Chinese government-run detention center in Xinjiang, Qelbinur Sidik said she saw two soldiers carry a young Uyghur woman out of the building on a stretcher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (CNN)On the first day of her new teaching job at a Chinese government-run detention center in Xinjiang, Qelbinur Sidik said she saw two soldiers carry a young Uyghur woman out of the building on a stretcher.
> "There was no spark of life in her face. Her cheeks were drained of color, she was not breathing," said Sidik, a former elementary school teacher who says she was forced to spend several months teaching at two detention centers in Xinjiang in 2017.
> A policewoman who worked at the camp later told her the woman had died from heavy bleeding, though she didn't say what caused it. It was the first of many stories the policewoman would tell Sidik during the teacher's three-month assignment at the heavily-fortified building that housed female detainees.


Propaganda always comes in the form of he said she said and never without any solid proof.


----------



## Globenim

khansaheeb said:


> Propaganda always comes in the form of he said she said and never without any solid proof.


Well its obvious they are lying but at least they could try not insult the intelligence of everyone with an IQ above room temperature . US government hired/blackmailed people suddenly come up with these stories years after living in America? People claiming to be interned in China while commuting through the country and traveling the entire world as regular tourists in and from China? Christian and Hindutva rightwing radicals pretending to care about Muslim rights?


----------



## rent4country

On the first day of her new teaching job at a Chinese government-run detention center in Xinjiang, Qelbinur Sidik said she saw two soldiers carry a young Uyghur woman out of the building on a stretcher.

"There was no spark of life in her face. Her cheeks were drained of color, she was not breathing," said Sidik, a former elementary school teacher who says she was forced to spend several months teaching at two detention centers in Xinjiang in 2017.

A policewoman who worked at the camp later told her the woman had died from heavy bleeding, though she didn't say what caused it. It was the first of many stories the policewoman would tell Sidik during the teacher's three-month assignment at the heavily-fortified building that housed female detainees.

According to Sidik, the policewoman claimed to have been assigned to investigate reports of rape at the center by her superiors, though CNN has no evidence of that claim. However, Sidik said what she heard and saw herself was so disturbing that it made her ill.

Sidik's allegations are similar to those of former detainees who have spoken of rape and systematic sexual assault within China's vast detention network.

Her testimony is a rare account of a worker's direct experience of life inside the detention centers, where the US government alleges China is committing genocide against Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities through a repressive campaign of mass detention, torture, forced birth control and abortions.

The Chinese government has rejected allegations of genocide, and in a statement to CNN said "there is no so-called 'systematic sexual assault and abuse against women' in Xinjiang."

However, Sidik said the female police officer described how her male colleagues used to boast about it. "When (male guards) were drinking at night, the policemen would tell each other how they raped and tortured girls," Sidik told CNN from her new home in the Netherlands.






Qelbinur Sidik went from being an elementary school teacher to someone forced to teach Mandarin to detainees.

*Inside the camps*
An ethnic Uzbek, Sidik grew up in Xinjiang and spent 28 years teaching elementary school students aged from six to 13. In September 2016, she said she was summoned to a meeting at the Saybagh District Bureau of Education and told she'd be working with "illiterates."

In March 2017, she met her new students -- about 100 men and a handful of women. "They came in, their feet and hands chained in shackles," she said.

At her first lesson, Sidik said she turned to the chalkboard only to hear the detainees behind her crying. "I turned slightly, I saw their tears falling down their beards, the female detainees were crying loudly," she said.

Young detainees who arrived at the centers "fit, robust and bright-eyed" quickly sickened and weakened, she said. From her classroom in the basement of one camp, Sidik said she could hear screams. When she asked about their cries, she claims a male policeman told her that detainees were being tortured.

"During the time I was teaching in there, I witnessed horrific tragedy," Sidik said.


CNN has no way of verifying Sidik's account from inside the detention centers. However, former Xinjiang detainees have told CNN they were subjected to political indoctrination and abuse, and Uyghurs who now live abroad have described relatives disappearing into detention. Leaked documents provided to CNN showed Uyghurs could be sent to the camps for as little as having a beard or wearing a veil.

The Chinese government has claimed the camps are "vocational training centers," part of an official strategy to both stamp out violent Islamist extremism and create jobs.

"There is no 'rounding up thousands of Uyghur Muslims'," said Xu Guixiang, a spokesperson for the Communist Party publicity department in Xinjiang, at a government press conference on February 1.

"What we have cracked down on, according to the law, are a few heinous and obstinate leaders and backbones of extremist groups. What we have rescued are those who have been infected with religious extremism and committed minor crimes."
*'Then I was gang raped'*

Tursunay Ziyawudun said she had committed no crime when she was first detained in April 2017, after returning home to Xinjiang's Xinyuan County to obtain official documents. She and her husband had been living for five years in neighboring Kazakhstan.

Her husband, Halmirza Halik, an ethnic Kazakh, was not detained and tracked her down to the Xinyuan County Vocational School. "We spoke through the iron gate of the school," said Halik, speaking by phone with CNN from Kazakhstan. "She cried after seeing me. I told her don't be afraid ... you have not broken the law and there is nothing to worry about."





Speaking to CNN from the US, Tursunay Ziyawudun said that she was taken to a cell with about 20 other women, where they were given little food and water.

The authorities released Ziyawudun after a month in detention, but then summoned her back to the camp in March 2018, which she claimed marked the beginning of a 9-month nightmare.
Speaking to CNN from the US, Ziyawudun said that she was taken to a cell with about 20 other women, where they were given little food and water and only allowed to use the toilet once a day for three to five minutes. "Those who took more time were electrocuted with shock batons," she said.
During her detention, Ziyawudun says guards interrogated her about her years in Kazakhstan, asking whether she had ties to Uyghur exile groups.
During one of these sessions, she claims police officers kicked and beat her until she passed out. Another time, while still bruised from her beating, Ziyawudun claimed two female guards took her to another room where they laid her on a table. "They inserted a stun baton inside me and twisted and shocked me with it. I blacked out," she said.









Allegations of shackled students and gang rape inside China's detention camps


On the first day of her new teaching job at a Chinese government-run detention center in Xinjiang, Qelbinur Sidik said she saw two soldiers carry a young Uyghur woman out of the building on a stretcher.




www.cnn.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Sad Sad:
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## atan651

these people have very rich imagination.


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Source of the OP is cnn. The SAME cnn that claimed Iraq has wmd that can destroy Europe in 30 mins............


----------



## flameboard

atan651 said:


> these people have very rich imagination.


People are in detention camps stripped of dignity and rights and you’re doubting rape victims?

This is the kinda mindset I expect from Indians trying to justify their rape culture

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## terry5

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Source of the OP is cnn. The SAME cnn that claimed Iraq has wmd that can destroy Europe in 30 mins............



lol your such a Chinese bootlicker you have to peddle your false fantasies .

*Report: No WMD stockpiles in Iraq*
*CIA: Saddam intended to make arms if sanctions ended*
Thursday, October 7, 2004 Posted: 1450 GMT (2250 HKT)











Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraq Survey Group, testifies Wednesday at a Senate Armed Services committee hearing.​








​VIDEO

According to a report by the CIA's Charles Duelfer, Saddam Hussein did not have WMD when the war began.



PLAY VIDEO 


Duelfer appears before a Senate committee to testify on Iraq's weapons capabilities.



PLAY VIDEO 

RELATED• Report links U.N. to Iraq bribes
• Saddam was fixated on Iran
• Blair: Sanctions weren't working
• Interactive: The search for WMD

SPECIAL REPORT


• *Interactive:* Who's who in Iraq
• *Interactive:* Sectarian divide
• *Timeline:* Bloodiest days for civilians
• Coalition Casualties
• Special Report

YOUR E-MAIL ALERTS
 Iraq



or Create your own​



Manage alerts | What is this?​


*WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Saddam Hussein did not possess stockpiles of illicit weapons at the time of the U.S. invasion in March 2003 and had not begun any program to produce them, a CIA report concludes.*

In fact, the long-awaited report, authored by Charles Duelfer, who advises the director of central intelligence on Iraqi weapons, says Iraq's WMD program was essentially destroyed in 1991 and Saddam ended Iraq's nuclear program after the 1991 Gulf War.

The Iraq Survey Group report, released Wednesday, is 1,200 to 1,500 pages long.

The massive report does say, however, that Iraq worked hard to cheat on United Nations-imposed sanctions and retain the capability to resume production of weapons of mass destruction at some time in the future.

"[Saddam] wanted to end sanctions while preserving the capability to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction when sanctions were lifted," a summary of the report says.

Duelfer, testifying at a Senate hearing on the report, said his account attempts to describe Iraq's weapons programs "not in isolation but in the context of the aims and objectives of the regime that created and used them."

"I also have insisted that the report include as much basic data as reasonable and that it be unclassified, since the tragedy that has been Iraq has exacted such a huge cost for so many for so long," Duelfer said.

The report was released nearly two years ago to the day that President Bush strode onto a stage in Cincinnati and told the audience that Saddam Hussein's Iraq "possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons" and "is seeking nuclear weapons."

"The danger is already significant and it only grows worse with time," Bush said in the speech delivered October 7, 2002. "If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today -- and we do -- does it make any sense for the world to wait to confront him as he grows even stronger and develops even more dangerous weapons?"

Speaking on the campaign trail in Pennsylvania, Bush maintained Wednesday that the war was the right thing to do and that Iraq stood out as a place where terrorists might get weapons of mass destruction.

"There was a risk, a real risk, that Saddam Hussein would pass weapons or materials or information to terrorist networks, and in the world after September the 11th, that was a risk we could not afford to take," Bush said.

But Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, seized on the report as political ammunition against the Bush administration.

"Despite the efforts to focus on Saddam's desires and intentions, the bottom line is Iraq did not have either weapon stockpiles or active production capabilities at the time of the war," Rockefeller said in a press release.

"The report does further document Saddam's attempts to deceive the world and get out from under the sanctions, but the fact remains, the sanctions combined with inspections were working and Saddam was restrained."

But British Prime Minister Tony Blair had just the opposite take on the information in the report, saying it demonstrated the U.N. sanctions were not working and Saddam was "doing his best" to get around them.

He said the report made clear that there was "every intention" on Saddam's part to develop WMD and he "never had any intention of complying with U.N. resolutions."

At a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee Wednesday, panel Chairman John Warner, R-Virginia, called the findings "significant."

"While the ISG has not found stockpiles of WMD, the ISG and other coalition elements have developed a body of fact that shows that Saddam Hussein had, first, the strategic intention to continue to pursue WMD capabilities; two, created ambiguity about his WMD capabilities that he used to extract concessions in the international world of disclosure and discussion and negotiation.

"He used it as a bargaining tactic and as a strategic deterrent against his neighbors and others."

"As we speak, over 1,700 individuals -- military and civilian -- are in Iraq and Qatar, continuing to search for facts about Iraq's WMD programs," Warner said.

But Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, ranking Democrat on the committee, said 1,750 experts have visited 1,200 potential WMD sites and have come up empty-handed.

"It is important to emphasize that central fact because the administration's case for going to war against Iraq rested on the twin arguments that Saddam Hussein had existing stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction and that he might give weapons of mass destruction to al Qaeda to attack us -- as al Qaeda had attacked us on 9/11," Levin said.

Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Massachusetts, asked Duelfer about the future likelihood of finding weapons of mass destruction, to which Duelfer replied, "The chance of finding a significant stockpile is less than 5 percent."

Based in part on interviews with Saddam, the report concludes that the deposed Iraqi president wanted to acquire weapons of mass destruction because he believed they kept the United States from going all the way to Baghdad during the first Gulf War and stopped an Iranian ground offensive during the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s, senior administration officials said.

U.S. officials said the Duelfer report is "comprehensive," but they are not calling it a "final report" because there are still some loose ends to tie up.

One outstanding issue, an official said, is whether Iraq shipped any stockpiles of weapons outside of the country. Another issue, he said, is mobile biological weapons labs, a matter on which he said "there is still useful work to do."

Duelfer said Wednesday his teams found no evidence of a mobile biological weapons capability.

The U.S. official said he believes Saddam decided to give up his weapons in 1991, but tried to conceal his nuclear and biological programs for as long as possible. Then in 1995, when his son-in-law Hussain Kamal defected with information about the programs, he gave those up, too.

Iraq's nuclear program, which in 1991 was well-advanced, "was decaying" by 2001, the official said, to the point where Iraq was -- if it even could restart the program -- "many years from a bomb."

_CNN's Wayne Drash contributed to this report._



leave poor people alone with your lies


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

terry5 said:


> lol your such a Chinese bootlicker you have to peddle your false fantasies .
> 
> *Report: No WMD stockpiles in Iraq*
> *CIA: Saddam intended to make arms if sanctions ended*
> Thursday, October 7, 2004 Posted: 1450 GMT (2250 HKT)
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraq Survey Group, testifies Wednesday at a Senate Armed Services committee hearing.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> VIDEO
> 
> According to a report by the CIA's Charles Duelfer, Saddam Hussein did not have WMD when the war began.
> 
> 
> 
> PLAY VIDEO
> 
> 
> Duelfer appears before a Senate committee to testify on Iraq's weapons capabilities.
> 
> 
> 
> PLAY VIDEO
> 
> RELATED• Report links U.N. to Iraq bribes
> • Saddam was fixated on Iran
> • Blair: Sanctions weren't working
> • Interactive: The search for WMD
> 
> SPECIAL REPORT
> 
> 
> • *Interactive:* Who's who in Iraq
> • *Interactive:* Sectarian divide
> • *Timeline:* Bloodiest days for civilians
> • Coalition Casualties
> • Special Report
> 
> YOUR E-MAIL ALERTS
> Iraq
> 
> 
> 
> or Create your own​
> 
> 
> 
> Manage alerts | What is this?​
> 
> 
> 
> *WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Saddam Hussein did not possess stockpiles of illicit weapons at the time of the U.S. invasion in March 2003 and had not begun any program to produce them, a CIA report concludes.*
> 
> In fact, the long-awaited report, authored by Charles Duelfer, who advises the director of central intelligence on Iraqi weapons, says Iraq's WMD program was essentially destroyed in 1991 and Saddam ended Iraq's nuclear program after the 1991 Gulf War.
> 
> The Iraq Survey Group report, released Wednesday, is 1,200 to 1,500 pages long.
> 
> The massive report does say, however, that Iraq worked hard to cheat on United Nations-imposed sanctions and retain the capability to resume production of weapons of mass destruction at some time in the future.
> 
> "[Saddam] wanted to end sanctions while preserving the capability to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction when sanctions were lifted," a summary of the report says.
> 
> Duelfer, testifying at a Senate hearing on the report, said his account attempts to describe Iraq's weapons programs "not in isolation but in the context of the aims and objectives of the regime that created and used them."
> 
> "I also have insisted that the report include as much basic data as reasonable and that it be unclassified, since the tragedy that has been Iraq has exacted such a huge cost for so many for so long," Duelfer said.
> 
> The report was released nearly two years ago to the day that President Bush strode onto a stage in Cincinnati and told the audience that Saddam Hussein's Iraq "possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons" and "is seeking nuclear weapons."
> 
> "The danger is already significant and it only grows worse with time," Bush said in the speech delivered October 7, 2002. "If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today -- and we do -- does it make any sense for the world to wait to confront him as he grows even stronger and develops even more dangerous weapons?"
> 
> Speaking on the campaign trail in Pennsylvania, Bush maintained Wednesday that the war was the right thing to do and that Iraq stood out as a place where terrorists might get weapons of mass destruction.
> 
> "There was a risk, a real risk, that Saddam Hussein would pass weapons or materials or information to terrorist networks, and in the world after September the 11th, that was a risk we could not afford to take," Bush said.
> 
> But Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, seized on the report as political ammunition against the Bush administration.
> 
> "Despite the efforts to focus on Saddam's desires and intentions, the bottom line is Iraq did not have either weapon stockpiles or active production capabilities at the time of the war," Rockefeller said in a press release.
> 
> "The report does further document Saddam's attempts to deceive the world and get out from under the sanctions, but the fact remains, the sanctions combined with inspections were working and Saddam was restrained."
> 
> But British Prime Minister Tony Blair had just the opposite take on the information in the report, saying it demonstrated the U.N. sanctions were not working and Saddam was "doing his best" to get around them.
> 
> He said the report made clear that there was "every intention" on Saddam's part to develop WMD and he "never had any intention of complying with U.N. resolutions."
> 
> At a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee Wednesday, panel Chairman John Warner, R-Virginia, called the findings "significant."
> 
> "While the ISG has not found stockpiles of WMD, the ISG and other coalition elements have developed a body of fact that shows that Saddam Hussein had, first, the strategic intention to continue to pursue WMD capabilities; two, created ambiguity about his WMD capabilities that he used to extract concessions in the international world of disclosure and discussion and negotiation.
> 
> "He used it as a bargaining tactic and as a strategic deterrent against his neighbors and others."
> 
> "As we speak, over 1,700 individuals -- military and civilian -- are in Iraq and Qatar, continuing to search for facts about Iraq's WMD programs," Warner said.
> 
> But Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, ranking Democrat on the committee, said 1,750 experts have visited 1,200 potential WMD sites and have come up empty-handed.
> 
> "It is important to emphasize that central fact because the administration's case for going to war against Iraq rested on the twin arguments that Saddam Hussein had existing stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction and that he might give weapons of mass destruction to al Qaeda to attack us -- as al Qaeda had attacked us on 9/11," Levin said.
> 
> Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Massachusetts, asked Duelfer about the future likelihood of finding weapons of mass destruction, to which Duelfer replied, "The chance of finding a significant stockpile is less than 5 percent."
> 
> Based in part on interviews with Saddam, the report concludes that the deposed Iraqi president wanted to acquire weapons of mass destruction because he believed they kept the United States from going all the way to Baghdad during the first Gulf War and stopped an Iranian ground offensive during the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s, senior administration officials said.
> 
> U.S. officials said the Duelfer report is "comprehensive," but they are not calling it a "final report" because there are still some loose ends to tie up.
> 
> One outstanding issue, an official said, is whether Iraq shipped any stockpiles of weapons outside of the country. Another issue, he said, is mobile biological weapons labs, a matter on which he said "there is still useful work to do."
> 
> Duelfer said Wednesday his teams found no evidence of a mobile biological weapons capability.
> 
> The U.S. official said he believes Saddam decided to give up his weapons in 1991, but tried to conceal his nuclear and biological programs for as long as possible. Then in 1995, when his son-in-law Hussain Kamal defected with information about the programs, he gave those up, too.
> 
> Iraq's nuclear program, which in 1991 was well-advanced, "was decaying" by 2001, the official said, to the point where Iraq was -- if it even could restart the program -- "many years from a bomb."
> 
> _CNN's Wayne Drash contributed to this report._
> 
> 
> 
> leave poor people alone with your lies








Funny that the above news ONLY came after the americans had invaded Iraq, destroyed the country and were in the process of mass murdering the Iraqis..........

Reactions: Like Like:
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## tower9

Sure. No actual proof but trust me bro.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## CAPRICORN-88

*China still awaits reply from EU representatives after inviting them to Xinjiang: Chinese envoy to Germany*
By Global TimesPublished: Feb 19, 2021 11:39 PM Updated: Feb 20, 2021 09:56 AM





Xinjiang Photo: IC

China's Ambassador to Germany Wu Ken said China has invited the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights to Xinjiang and the two sides are discussing details of the visit, but no replay has been received from the representatives of the EU after it issued invitation for them to visit the region.

China welcomes foreigners to visit Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region and learn about the real Xinjiang, given that *some anti-China politicians in the West are spreading lies *about Xinjiang, Ambassador Wu said in a recent interview with German business magazine Wirtschafts Woche.

No matter what the Chinese government does, some Western media reports are quick to conclude that Beijing is engaged in oppression of Uygur people in Xinjiang, he said.

Wu emphasized that the so-called "forced labor" is a label invented by anti-China forces in the West to smear China, and that there are no so-called "re-education camps" in Xinjiang.

*China legally established vocational training centers, which have no difference in essence from the "anti-extremism centers" in France and community correction centers in the US, said Wu, noting these institutions are all beneficial attempts to prevent terrorism and de-radicalize people.*

Through education and training, China has eradicated the breeding ground for extremism and helped those who suffer from it secure a better future, Wu said.

"The measures have greatly improved the situation in Xinjiang. There had been no terrorist attacks for four years in 2019, and participants in the courses at the vocational training centers have graduated and found jobs," he said.

Wu added that many critics in the West have never been to Xinjiang's vocational training centers. "Direct communication with local ethnic groups in China will surely lead to conclusions that are different from what these anti-China 'actors' want the international public to believe," Wu said.

Foreigners are welcome to visit and look around Xinjiang to learn the real situation there, said Wu, revealing that more than 1,200 diplomats, journalists and religious figures from more than 100 countries have visited Xinjiang in the past few years.

China has issued an invitation to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and talks about the details of a visit are being held. Representatives from the EU were invited a long time ago, but they have not replied, Wu said.


----------



## Char

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *China still awaits reply from EU representatives after inviting them to Xinjiang: Chinese envoy to Germany*
> By Global TimesPublished: Feb 19, 2021 11:39 PM Updated: Feb 20, 2021 09:56 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xinjiang Photo: IC
> 
> China's Ambassador to Germany Wu Ken said China has invited the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights to Xinjiang and the two sides are discussing details of the visit, but no replay has been received from the representatives of the EU after it issued invitation for them to visit the region.
> 
> China welcomes foreigners to visit Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region and learn about the real Xinjiang, given that *some anti-China politicians in the West are spreading lies *about Xinjiang, Ambassador Wu said in a recent interview with German business magazine Wirtschafts Woche.
> 
> No matter what the Chinese government does, some Western media reports are quick to conclude that Beijing is engaged in oppression of Uygur people in Xinjiang, he said.
> 
> Wu emphasized that the so-called "forced labor" is a label invented by anti-China forces in the West to smear China, and that there are no so-called "re-education camps" in Xinjiang.
> 
> *China legally established vocational training centers, which have no difference in essence from the "anti-extremism centers" in France and community correction centers in the US, said Wu, noting these institutions are all beneficial attempts to prevent terrorism and de-radicalize people.*
> 
> Through education and training, China has eradicated the breeding ground for extremism and helped those who suffer from it secure a better future, Wu said.
> 
> "The measures have greatly improved the situation in Xinjiang. There had been no terrorist attacks for four years in 2019, and participants in the courses at the vocational training centers have graduated and found jobs," he said.
> 
> Wu added that many critics in the West have never been to Xinjiang's vocational training centers. "Direct communication with local ethnic groups in China will surely lead to conclusions that are different from what these anti-China 'actors' want the international public to believe," Wu said.
> 
> Foreigners are welcome to visit and look around Xinjiang to learn the real situation there, said Wu, revealing that more than 1,200 diplomats, journalists and religious figures from more than 100 countries have visited Xinjiang in the past few years.
> 
> China has issued an invitation to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and talks about the details of a visit are being held. Representatives from the EU were invited a long time ago, but they have not replied, Wu said.



They know the truth, don't need to go to xinjiang, they don't need the real materials they can make fake news at home.

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## CAPRICORN-88




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## beijingwalker

Uighur girl talks about why Uighur families tend to have many children, she has 2 younger sisters and 1 younger brother. Most Chinese families only have one child, but many Uighur families tend to have 4 or 5 children, cause the parents don't want to feel lonely when they get old.


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## Vanguard One

PUBLISHED WED, JAN 13 20219:42 AM EST UPDATED WED, JAN 13 20217:56 PM EST

China is accused of extrajudicially detaining over 1 million Uighur Muslims and other minorities in political re-education camps in the northwestern autonomous region, along with invasive surveillance, restrictions on Uighur culture and the use of forced labor.

Companies that fail to demonstrate adequate due diligence in ensuring their supply chains are free from forced labor will now be subject to fines, British Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab announced in the House of Commons.





Dominic Raab, First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs walks in Downing Street on September 3, 2019 in London, England.
Leon Neal | Getty Images News | Getty Images


LONDON — The U.K. has introduced new measures to root out the presence of alleged forced labor in China’s Xinjiang region in British supply chains.

China is accused of extrajudicially detaining over 1 million Uighur Muslims and other minorities in political re-education camps in the northwestern autonomous region, along with invasive surveillance, restrictions on Uighur culture and the use of forced labor.


China staunchly denies the allegations, claiming that the centers are aimed at combating extremism and encouraging the development of vocational skills.

Companies with annual turnover of more than £36 million ($49.2 million) that fail to demonstrate adequate due diligence in ensuring their supply chains are free from forced labor under the Modern Slavery Act, will now be subject to fines, British Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab announced in the House of Commons on Tuesday.

“We must make sure that U.K. businesses are not part of the supply chains that lead to the gates of the internment camps in Xinjiang, and to make sure that the products of human rights violations that take place in those camps do not end up on the shelves of supermarkets that we shop in here at home, week in, week out,” Raab said.

The government will also initiate an urgent review into export controls to prevent exports which could aid in human rights abuses, issue new guidance to businesses operating in the region, and extend the Modern Slavery Act to the public sector, barring any company shown to have forced labor ties from public procurement contracts.

*‘Truly horrific’*
Raab claimed the evidence is now “far reaching” and “paints a truly harrowing picture,” accusing China of operating “internment camps, arbitrary detention, political re-education, forced labor, torture and forced sterilization, all on an industrial scale.”

“It is truly horrific — barbarism we had hoped was lost to another era being practiced today as we speak in one of the leading members of the international community,” he added.

Raab cited first-hand accounts from diplomats and escaped victims, satellite imagery showing factories within internment camps and the destruction of mosques, and third party reports from the UN Human Rights Commission, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International.

A spokesman for the Chinese embassy in London did not immediately respond to CNBC’s request for comment.
Raab highlighted that China’s refusal to allow access to a U.N. human rights commissioner or other credible outside authority was not reconcilable with these contentions.

“China cannot simply refuse all access to those trusted third-party bodies who could verify the facts, and at the same time maintain a position of credible denial,” he added.





A protester outside the White House urges the United States to take action to stop China’s oppression of the Uighurs, on August 14, 2020 in Washington, DC.
Chip Somodevilla | Getty Images News | Getty Images


Raab’s measures stopped short of sanctioning individual Chinese officials over their involvement in the alleged atrocities, and Labour’s shadow foreign secretary, Lisa Nandy, claimed her counterpart had not gone far enough, likening Raab’s actions to “tinkering around the edges.”

The presence of forced labor in international supply chains has been the target of a number of major governments in recent years. In late 2020, several U.S. companies came under fire for allegedly lobbying to weaken a bipartisan bill banning imports from Xinjiang.

“Some U.S. politicians have concocted disinformation of so-called ‘forced labor’ in order to restrict and oppress relevant parties and enterprises in China as well as contain China’s development,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying told CNBC in December.

“All ethnic groups in Xinjiang choose their occupations according to their own will and sign ‘labor contracts’ of their own volition in accordance with law on the basis of equality.”









UK clamps down on Xinjiang labor camps, accusing China of ‘torture’ and ‘barbarism’


The U.K. has introduced new measures to root out the presence of alleged forced labor in China's Xinjiang region in British supply chains.




www.cnbc.com

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## KurtisBrian

Vanguard One said:


> “We must make sure that U.K. businesses are not part of the supply chains that lead to the gates of the internment camps in Xinjiang, and to make sure that the products of human rights violations that take place in those camps do not end up on the shelves of supermarkets that we shop in here at home, week in, week out,” Raab said.



Sinophile today, Raabi (rabbi?) phile tomorrow. Then after slapping his Chinese "friend" around he feels Sinophile again.
Meanwhile, people like Raabi will use this to ensure that the little people are made to suffer so thugs and plunderers can enrich themselves.


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## Gilljutt

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/uighur-genocide-motion-vote-1.5922711

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## Dalit

Why is this genocide noise only coming from predominantly Caucasian Western nations? What happened to the rest of the world?

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## BATMAN

interesting


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## El Sidd

Gilljutt said:


> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/uighur-genocide-motion-vote-1.5922711


Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and almost all of his cabinet colleagues were absent for the vote. Foreign Affairs Minister Marc Garneau was the only cabinet minister present. When it was his turn, he said he abstained "on behalf of the Government of Canada."

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## Feng Leng

That's what you do when you can't compete with the best!

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## Akasa

Good. I expect more and more democracies to follow suit.


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## beijingwalker

The real genocide happens in Indian controlled Kashmir, when would the west declare it "genocide" , or which western government likes to bring it to UN for discussion at least? And when China did, what the west was doing was jointly block China's proposal.

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## beijingwalker

*Taiwan TV: Xinjiang Urumqi more developed, prosperous and modern looking than Taipei*

Taiwan TV anchor cries out in disbelief, Xinjiang Urumqi more developed, prosperous and modern looking than Taipei, everything looks so modern and all industries and farming in Xinjiang are highly mechanized and automated.

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## qwerrty

fake news

_"Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and almost all of his cabinet colleagues were absent for the vote. Foreign Affairs Minister Marc Garneau was the only cabinet minister present. When it was his turn, he said he abstained "on behalf of the Government of Canada." _

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## Beast

Akasa said:


> Good. I expect more and more democracies to follow suit.


You mean more mercenaries to follow?

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## KurtisBrian

probably just a way to put trade barriers in place so that indebted stupid thieves who took from Canadians who actually created can be rewarded by their lying cabalist bankster allies.
Same creatures, thieves, stole the UK and Europe.


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## CT-9914 "Snoop"

beijingwalker said:


> *Taiwan TV: Xinjiang Urumqi more developed, prosperous and modern looking than Taipei*
> 
> Taiwan TV anchor cries out in disbelief, Xinjiang Urumqi more developed, prosperous and modern looking than Taipei, everything looks so modern and all industries and farming in Xinjiang are highly mechanized and automated.


Can't see how this is adding anything of worth to this forum. The vast majority of users here don't understand any form of Chinese and I seriously doubt farming is the first thing that comes to mind for anyone when Xinjiang is mentioned.


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## beijingwalker

CT-9914 "Snoop" said:


> Can't see how this is adding anything of worth to this forum. The vast majority of users here don't understand any form of Chinese and I seriously doubt farming is the first thing that comes to mind for anyone when Xinjiang is mentioned.


If you don't think it's about Xinjiang, think it's about Taiwan and how Taiwan is falling behind Xinjiang.

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## Gilljutt

El Sidd said:


> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and almost all of his cabinet colleagues were absent for the vote. Foreign Affairs Minister Marc Garneau was the only cabinet minister present. When it was his turn, he said he abstained "on behalf of the Government of Canada."



Yes but it was an unanimous vote across all party lines including Trudeau's own. Trudeau told his cabinet not to vote to leave open negotiating room for the Canadian detainees in China.


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## ZeEa5KPul

🤦‍♂️


Akasa said:


> Good. I expect more and more democracies to follow suit.


I feel disgusted that you're technically my "countryman".

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## beijingwalker

Gilljutt said:


> Yes but it was an unanimous vote across all party lines including Trudeau's own. Trudeau told his cabinet not to vote to leave open negotiating room for the Canadian detainees in China.


Voting to decide a "genocide"?? by politicians but not scholars? can anything more ridiculous than this??? how many of those Canadian politicians have ever visited Xinjiang, or how many of them even know where Xinjiang is...

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## CT-9914 "Snoop"

Dalit said:


> Why is this genocide noise only coming from predominantly Caucasian Western nations? What happened to the rest of the world?


because everyone else is broke i.e. needs cheap chinese goods


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## KAL-EL

CT-9914 "Snoop" said:


> because everyone else is broke i.e. needs cheap chinese goods



Well to be fair, several Chinese companies make very good digital audio players.

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## Akasa

ZeEa5KPul said:


> 🤦‍♂️
> 
> I feel disgusted that you're technically my "countryman".



Let's just concede that the feeling is mutual, especially if someone like yourself is willing to turn a blind eye towards these vivid crimes against humanity. But perhaps I shouldn't be so surprised, seeing how the PM himself seems to have trouble grasping with the reality that a modern-day "superpower" is blatantly carrying out Nazi-esque racially-motivated mass incarcerations.

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## striver44

Canada have the balls to do what majority so called "muslim nation" can't or won't. No wonder the west conquered you easily, these "muslim nations" are bunch of cowards.


And not only cowards, but a noisy cowards.

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## flameboard

Dalit said:


> Why is this genocide noise only coming from predominantly Caucasian Western nations? What happened to the rest of the world?


I think "rest of the world" fears China because they are weak nations that can't risk the anger of China


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## jaybird

When you start throwing words like Genocide around without prove just to smear another country. you lost all the credibility in your words. It become meaningless. 

Just like freedom and democracy was suppose to be a good thing. But these words all practically got raped to death by the western countries as tools to attack other countries, it no longer have the same meaning anymore. I throw up a little in my mouth hearing this words now a days. It's nothing but geopolitics......

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## ZeEa5KPul

Akasa said:


> Let's just concede that the feeling is mutual


I certainly expect so. I'd be even more disgusted if it wasn't.


Akasa said:


> especially if someone like yourself is willing to turn a blind eye towards these vivid crimes against humanity


It's not very difficult to turn a blind eye to things that aren't real. What you call "vivid crimes against humanity" is simply slanderous propaganda and lies fed to the gullible like slop fed to pigs along a trough.


Akasa said:


> But perhaps I shouldn't be so surprised, seeing how the PM himself


I know you and I (and your alt) aren't on good terms, but there must be a modicum of decorum and civility. Being compared in any way to that cowardly fop of a "prime minister" is beyond the pale.


Akasa said:


> a modern-day "superpower"


That doesn't go in quotes. China is already a superpower by every measure, and they haven't invented the word yet for what it will be called in the future.


Akasa said:


> crimes against humanity





Akasa said:


> mass incarcerations


I find it noteworthy that you wouldn't use the term "genocide." Why is that? It's what all the worthy democracies are calling it, right? Surely you don't think yourself better or more rational than them.

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## hualushui

*Genocide by whites: Native Americans been killed 100 million people.
Genocide in China: Uighurs increased by 2.5 times*

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## striver44

Dalit said:


> Why is this genocide noise only coming from predominantly Caucasian Western nations? What happened to the rest of the world?


Is it?









In KL, hundreds of Muslims protest against China’s treatment of Uighurs | Malay Mail


KUALA LUMPUR, Dec 27 ― Hundreds of individuals from various Muslim groups have gathered at Jalan Ampang today to protest against China’s alleged abuse of Uighur Muslims at the Xinjiang province in China. Two separate protests — one led by the progressive Malaysian Muslim Youth Movement (Abim)...




www.malaymail.com









__





Redirect Notice






www.google.com









__





Tunisia’s Coalitions of Imams Protested Against the China’s Oppression of Uighurs | Uyghur Times


Uighur Times is a multi-language media to expose China's crimes against humanity against Uighurs and others since 2017.




uighurtimes.com













Turkish protesters march in support of Uighurs after Ozil comments


Thousands of protesters marched in support of China's Uighurs in Istanbul on Friday and voiced solidarity with Arsenal midfielder Mesut Ozil after the furore caused by his criticism of China's policies toward the Muslim minority.




www.google.com





Tunis, Turkey, Malaysia and Indonesia are white Caucasian?

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## zectech

Not one Uighur killed = genocide. 

For there to be a genocide, you decimate the population, meaning kill 10% of the population. Like what happened in Iraq. Iraqis were genocided by Washington serial genociders.

The level of mental retardation among Canadian politicians is stunning and obvious.

Canada's ancestors:









Story of most murderous people of all time revealed in ancient DNA


Starting 5000 years ago, the Yamnaya embarked on a violent conquest of Europe. Now genetic analysis tells their tale for the first time




www.newscientist.com





Neo-liberals thrive in cultural genocide of traditional people, forcing them to take vaccines with birth control in them.

Zionist Jews are notorious genociders of Palestinians and others they don't like.

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## Akasa

ZeEa5KPul said:


> It's not very difficult to turn a blind eye to things that aren't real. What you call "vivid crimes against humanity" is simply slanderous propaganda and lies fed to the gullible like slop fed to pigs along a trough.



"Slanderous propaganda" seems to be congruent with the sort of language the former USSR and Nazi Germany used to describe allegations of their cover-ups and crimes. Seriously man, have an ounce of self-respect and stop trying to cover their ***.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> I know you and I (and your alt) aren't on good terms, but there must be a modicum of decorum and civility. Being compared in any way to that cowardly fop of a "prime minister" is beyond the pale.



He sure is cowardly. Cowardly for not calling this a genocide a year or two ago when evidence came to light.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> That doesn't go in quotes. China is already a superpower by every measure, and they haven't invented the word yet for what it will be called in the future.



LOL we sure wouldn't agree on what these "measures" are, eh?



ZeEa5KPul said:


> I find it noteworthy that you wouldn't use the term "genocide." Why is that? It's what all the worthy democracies are calling it, right? Surely you don't think yourself better or more rational than them.



It's a genocide, plain and simple. There you go. It's not like labelling it differently would mitigate the gravity and abhorrent nature of the crimes.

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## Itachi

Dalit said:


> Why is this genocide noise only coming from predominantly Caucasian Western nations? What happened to the rest of the world?



Rest of the world, including Muslim countries like Pakistan, are Chinese slaves. That's a really easy question to answer...LOL

No one questions the Masta otherwise Masta won't give CPEC benefit

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## striver44

Itachi said:


> Rest of the world, including Muslim countries like Pakistan, are Chinese slaves. That's a really easy question to answer...LOL
> 
> No one questions the Masta otherwise Masta won't give CPEC benefit


There are many sympathy across the world , including the muslim world, it's just the government never share the sentiment. This is literally what happened from Morocco to Indonesia.

The chinese like to point at government public support towards Uyghur policy as a proof that everybody supports what china did.

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## Itachi

striver44 said:


> Canada have the balls to do what majority so called "muslim nation" can't or won't. No wonder the west conquered you easily, these "muslim nations" are bunch of cowards.
> 
> 
> And not only cowards, but a noisy cowards.



For all the shit Canada gets thrown its way for being "nice" in comparison to the US. When it comes to hard foreign diplomacy, the same Canadians can get really tough. These guys are the same guys who have "quarantined" the Huawei CFO like a poodle.

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## striver44

Itachi said:


> For all the shit Canada gets thrown its way for being "nice" in comparison to the US. When it comes to hard foreign diplomacy, the same Canadians can get really tough. These guys are the same guys who have "quarantined" the Huawei CFO like a poodle.
> 
> View attachment 718967


As I said, there are reasons why these Anglos are now masters of the earth, they just don't back down with china, while the so called " anti imperialistic" muslim world cowered.

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## zectech

Genocide is a heinous unforgivable crime. Then genociders need to leave the land stolen through genocide. This should be China's reply.

Kick these genociders out of Europe:









Two thirds of European men descend from three Bronze Age forefathers


Scientists from the University of Leicester tested the DNA of modern men and found three distinct genetic patterns (like those pictured) that stem from men 3,500 and 7,300 years ago.




www.dailymail.co.uk





This happened throughout Europe:









The invasion that wiped out every man from Spain 4,500 years ago


New research indicates all local males on the Iberian peninsula were killed by hostile invaders with superior technology




english.elpais.com





Native European men were genocided, and the native women raped and kept for sex slavery.

Kick the genociders out of Europe leaving Europe with only good seed.

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## ARMalik

Akasa said:


> Good. I expect more and more democracies to follow suit.



If you mean all these bankrupt 'Democracies' then yea ok.


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## Akasa

ARMalik said:


> If you mean all these bankrupt 'Democracies' then yea ok.



This is neither an argument nor rebuttal.

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## Itachi

ARMalik said:


> If you mean all these bankrupt 'Democracies' then yea ok.



You live in one too...

So far, it has a better per capita and economy than China. So much for "bankrupt democracies".

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## El Sidd

Gilljutt said:


> Yes but it was an unanimous vote across all party lines including Trudeau's own. Trudeau told his cabinet not to vote to leave open negotiating room for the Canadian detainees in China.



The house never reached a consensus owing to lack of academic research in the subject.

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## zectech

Give back North America to Native Americans. End the genocide.

Native Americans are still in a state of land stolen and population decimated, which is the state of genocide which "white settlers" (aka genociders) left them in for hundreds of years. We are still living in the age of the genocide of Native Americans because justice has never been dealt.

"White settlers" need to leave North America, including Canada, and give the land back to those who had a great deal more of respect of nature. Peaceful migrants are welcome everywhere. Genociders should only be driven into deserts, no matter the length of time since the deed of genocide.

The longer the land is stolen is a worse crime that things were never remedied.

My family is Caucasian, both sides. Meaning we are migrants and never genocided.

There are two groups of Caucasians Northern (Circassian/Native European) and Southern (Middle East).

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## beijingwalker

The real genocide happens in Indian controlled Kashmir, when would the west declare it "genocide" , or which western government likes to bring it to UN for discussion at least? And when China did, what the west was doing was jointly block China's proposal.

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## Globenim

Dalit said:


> Why is this genocide noise only coming from predominantly Caucasian Western nations? What happened to the rest of the world?


Nations with a record of attacking China with even weaker pretenses just 3-4 generations ago and destroying entire Muslim countries out of pure greed lasting until recent history and being founded and developed on a mountain of genocide. That the rise of a free and independent nation like China that is supposed to stand at the bottom is simply a scorn in their eyes is something that does not even need to be spelled out anymore.

Its exactly that history why they are fabricating these obvious hoaxes. They dont give a damn what Chinese or Muslims think, the projections on China are primarily aimed at a population with a rich history of brutalizing foreigners and minorities i.e. for internal consumption.

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## War Thunder

Dalit said:


> Why is this genocide noise only coming from predominantly Caucasian Western nations? What happened to the rest of the world?



Your Chinese over lords control the rest of the "under developed" world including yours.


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## qwerrty

Dalit said:


> Why is this genocide noise only coming from predominantly Caucasian Western nations? What happened to the rest of the world?



why?
















US State Department accusation of China 'genocide' relied on data abuse and baseless claims by far-right ideologue - The Grayzone


The Trump and Biden administrations used right-wing religious extremist Adrian Zenz for their "genocide" accusation against China, based on flagrant data abuse and falsehoods




thegrayzone.com

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## Capt. Karnage

Feng Leng said:


> That's what you do when you can't compete with the best!


Best in what stealing and IPR violation?

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## TaiShang

Any parliament can make such motions about almost any country.

Systemic and ongoing genocide of Indians and Blacks in the US, genocide of malnourished children and low caste in India, genocide of Arabs by French in Algeria...


This is as effective as MAGA.

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## TaiShang

While neofascists in Canada is busy with faking humanity, here is a thing they can retrospectively ponder on (they have been part and parcel of almost every US crimes against humanity in post-war period)

***

*US Atrocities in Korean War - Chem and Bio Weapons, Mass Civilian Bombing and Execution*

With the world's press spending a great deal of its energy on the rather fractious relationship between the United States and North Korea, a look back in time gives us some fascinating insight regarding the geopolitical stresses that rule the region, particularly the stresses that occurred during the Korean War.

Thanks to the International Action Center and the International Association of Democratic Lawyers (IADL), a Non-Governmental Organization which was founded in 1946 and acts as a consultative group to UNESCO, we have an interesting document that outlines some of America's actions on the Korean Peninsula during the early 1950s.








In March 1952, the IADL issued a Report on U.S. Crimes in Korea during the Korean War. Here is a screen capture showing the title page:








In the early 1950s, the Government of the *Democratic People's Republic of Korea repeatedly asked the United Nations to protest violations of international law by their enemies, the United States-led international coalition.*

These requests were ignored by the United Nations and, as such, the Council of the International Association of Democratic Lawyers set up a Commission consisting of lawyers from several nations to investigate these allegations with a "boots on the ground" trip to Korea which took place from March 3rd to March 19th, 1952, visiting the provinces of North and South Piengan, Hwang Hai, Kang Wan, including the towns of Pyongyang, Nampo, Kaichen, Pek Dong, Amju, Sinchon, Anak, Sariwon and Wonsan among others.

Here is a list of the lawyers that saw first-hand what had occurred in the DPRK:








The IADL notes that, under United Nations rules, the U.S. intervention on the Korean Peninsula was unlawful and that President Truman's orders to the American Navy and Air Force should be considered an "aggressive act" that went against the United Nations Charter.

Here are some of the more interesting findings of the IADL Commission:

*1.) Bacteriological Warfare:*

The Commission investigated the allegations that *American forces in Korea were using bacteriological weapons against both the DPRK armed forces and the nation's civilian population. *Between the 28th of January and the 12th of March (i.e. during the dead of winter), 1952, the Commission found the following insects which carried bacteria in many different locations:








The Commission noted that many of the insect species had not been found in Korea prior to the arrival of American forces and that many of them were found in mixed groups or clusters that would not normally be found together, for example, flies and spiders.

It also noted that the January temperature was 1 degree Celsius (just above freezing) to 5 degrees Celsius in February but that the prevailing average temperature was far below the freezing level, temperatures that are extremely hostile to insect life.

The insects were infected with the following bacteria which include plague, cholera and typhus:


Eberthella typhus
Bacillus paratyphi A and B
Shigella dysenteriae
Vibrio cholera
Pasturella pestis

Here are some examples of what was reported by local citizens:








In addition, a great quantity of fish of a species which live in regions between fresh water and salt water were found; these fish were found in a half rotten state and were infected with cholera.

*2.) Chemical Weapons:*

On various occasions since May 6th, 1951, American planes used asphyxiating and other gases or chemical weapons as follows:















*In the first attack on Nampo City, there were 1,379 casualties of which 480 died of suffocation and 647 others were affected by gas.

3.) Mass executions of civilians*:

According to witnesses, *the commander of the U.S. Forces in the region of Sinchon by the name of Harrison ordered the mass killing of 35,383 civilians (19,149 men and 16,234 women) during the period between October 17th and December 7th, 1950.

The civilians were pushed into a deep open grave, doused with fuel oil and set on fire. *Those who tried to escape were shot.
In another case, on October 20th, 2015, 500 men women and children were forced into an air raid cave shelter located in the city of Sinchon. Harrison ordered American soldiers to put explosives into the shelter and seal it with sacks of earth prior to the fuse being lit.
Here are other examples of mass murders:








*4.) Bombing and Attacking Civilians*:

Prior to the Korean War, the capital city of North Korea, Pyongyang, had a population of 464,000. As a result of the war, the population had fallen to 181,000 by December 31, 1951. In the period between June 27, 1950 and the Commission's visit, more than 30,000 incendiary and explosive devices were dropped on the city, *destroying 64,000 out of 80,000 houses, 32 hospitals and dispensaries (despite the fact that they were marked with a red cross), 64 churches, 99 schools and university buildings.*

Here is a description of one of the aerial bombardments of Pyongyang:








Here is the conclusion of the Commission:






























The IADL Commission unanimously found that the *United States was guilty of crimes against humanity during the Korean War and that there was a pattern of behaviour which constitutes genocide.*

Let's close this posting with the conclusion of the 2001 Korea International War Crimes Tribunal which examined the testimony of civilians from both North Korea and South Korea over the period from 1945 to 2001:



> _*The Members of the International War Crimes Tribunal find the accused Guilty on the basis of the evidence against them: each of the nineteen separate crimes alleged in the Initial Complaint has been established to have been committed beyond a reasonable doubt.* The Members find these crimes to have occurred during three main periods in the U.S. intervention in and occupation of Korea._
> 
> _The best-known period is from June 25, 1950, until July 27, 1953, the Korean War, when over 4.6 million Koreans perished, according to conservative Western estimates, including 3 million civilians in the north and 500,000 civilians in the south. The evidence of U.S. war crimes presented to this Tribunal included eyewitness testimony and documentary accounts of massacres of thousands of civilians in southern Korea by U.S. military forces during the war. Abundant evidence was also presented concerning criminal and even genocidal U.S. conduct in northern Korea, including the systematic leveling of most buildings and dwellings by U.S. artillery and aerial bombardment; widespread atrocities committed by U.S. and R.O.K. forces against civilians and prisoners of war; the deliberate destruction of facilities essential to civilian life and economic production; and the use of illegal weapons and biological and chemical warfare by the U.S. against the people and the environment of northern Korea. Documentary and eyewitness evidence was also presented showing gross and systematic violence committed against women in northern and southern Korea, characterized by mass rapes, sexual assaults and murders._
> _Less known but of crucial importance in understanding the war period is the preceding five years, from the landing of U.S. troops in Korea on September 8, 1945, to the outbreak of the war. The Members of the Tribunal examined extensive evidence of U.S. crimes against peace and crimes against humanity in this period. *The Members conclude that the U.S. government acted to divide Korea against the will of the vast majority of the people, limit its sovereignty, create a police state in southern Korea using many former collaborators with Japanese rule, and provoke tension and threats between southern and northern Korea, opposing and disrupting any plans for peaceful reunification. In this period the U.S. trained, directed and supported the ROK in systematic murder, imprisonment, torture, surveillance, harassment and violations of human rights of hundreds of thousands of people, especially of those individuals or groups considered nationalists, leftists, peasants seeking land reform, union organizers and/or those sympathetic to the north.*_
> _*The Members find that in the period from July 1953 to the present, the U.S. has continued to maintain a powerful military force in southern Korea, backed by nuclear weapons, in violation of international law and intended to obstruct the will of the Korean people for reunification.*Military occupation has been accompanied by the organized sexual exploitation of Korean women, frequently leading to violence and even murder of women by U.S. soldiers who have felt above the law. U.S.-imposed economic sanctions have impoverished and debilitated the people of northern Korea, leading to a reduction of life expectancy, widespread malnutrition and even starvation in a country that once exported food. The refusal of the U.S. government to grant visas to a delegation from the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea who planned to attend this Tribunal only confirms the criminal intent of the defendants to isolate those whom they have abused to prevent them from telling their story to the world._
> _In all these 55 years, the U.S. government has systematically manipulated, controlled, directed, misinformed and restricted press and media coverage to obtain consistent support for its military intervention, occupation and crimes against the people of Korea.
> It has also inculcated racist attitudes within the U.S. troops and general population that prepared them to commit and/or accept atrocities and genocidal policies against the Korean people.
> It has violated the Constitution of the United States, the delegation of powers over war and the military, the Bill of Rights, the UN Charter, international law and the laws of the ROK, DPRK, Peoples Republic of China, Japan and many others, in its lawless determination to exercise its will over the Korean peninsula.
> *The Members of the Korea International War Crimes Tribunal hold the United States government and its leaders accountable for these criminal acts and condemn those found guilty in the strongest possible terms." *_(my bold)
> Click to expand...


And Washington wonders why the North Koreans are so hostile toward the United States!

The irony of Washington's criticism of other nations (i.e Syria) and their use of chemical weapons is stunningly hypocritical.






*US Atrocities in Korean War - Chem and Bio Weapons,*


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## ZeEa5KPul

Akasa said:


> Seriously man, have an ounce of self-respect and stop trying to cover their ***.


If "self-respect" means bleating slanderous propaganda with the rest of you sheep, no thanks. You can keep your "self-respect."

I will give you an ounce of credit and tell you that I don't think you believe this garbage either. You just think it's a convenient bludgeon to beat China over the head with because you're salty it's dragging your motherland through the mud. Isn't that right, "Sino"Soldier? If what's happening in China is a genocide, what do you call what's happening in Kashmir?

Unfortunately for you, not only are these accusations simply lies, they're a foam bat, not a bludgeon. So you just end up embarrassing yourself in front of anyone with a brain - not that it matters since not many do have a brain and your hypocrisy would only bother you if you had any actual self-respect.


Akasa said:


> Cowardly for not calling this a genocide a year or two ago when evidence came to light.


How about he grow a spine and address the issues facing the Native Canadian community. You know, actual victims of genocide? Or is your definition of courage just bleating with America?


Akasa said:


> LOL we sure wouldn't agree on what these "measures" are, eh?


It doesn't matter if you like it or not, no one dares launch any real aggression on China - most especially not America. Why do you think it confines itself to just lying instead of taking military action? I'll tell you why, because America knows exactly the measure of China's power - it knows that if the USN takes hostile action against China, the USN sinks to the bottom of the ocean.

Sadly for you, those days are over:




These days are here:




And these days have never gone away :






Itachi said:


> So far, it has a better per capita and economy than China. So much for "bankrupt democracies".


It has better per-capita GDP because of what it did to the native population (actual genocide), the enslavement of Africans, and the plunder of the world's wealth. Why are you alright with that? Is it because you get your share of the spoils? What makes you any different from the Pakistani government you condemn? By your telling, they keep quiet because they get the CPEC spoils - so what makes them any different from you?

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## CAPRICORN-88

_The 5-eyes alliance has just lost one eye. Just starve out the remaining 4 one by one. 
There is no need for China to do anything and absolutely nothing they can do about her. Germany and Japan won't join them. 
Modi is feeling mighty uncomfortable.
China don't care either. 
China FM has put out a feeler and if Sleepy Joe Biden failed to capitalize on this opportunity, USA has more to lose in the longer run. 

US just printed 40% of her entire US dollar currency to keep herself afloat over the last 10 months. Can she raised interest rate without triggering an inflation. The stock market will crashes.
When USA is down, what would the rest do. 

That is why Boris Johnson suddenly woke up and declared himself a sinophile. 
  _

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## Beast

striver44 said:


> Canada have the balls to do what majority so called "muslim nation" can't or won't. No wonder the west conquered you easily, these "muslim nations" are bunch of cowards.
> 
> 
> And not only cowards, but a noisy cowards.


Typical sensational post. Becos those Muslim nations has sense to know who is the one murdering Muslim and constantly invade their countries under the pretext of democracy and freedom. 

They do not want to be tools make use by crusader.


striver44 said:


> There are many sympathy across the world , including the muslim world, it's just the government never share the sentiment. This is literally what happened from Morocco to Indonesia.
> 
> The chinese like to point at government public support towards Uyghur policy as a proof that everybody supports what china did.


The real Muslim world finally raise up ,not to be slave of crusader and neo-con. They make a very good choice!


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## Chanakyaa

*Canada votes to recognize China’s treatment of Uighur population as genocide*
Parliament’s move was not supported by Trudeau and likely to raise diplomatic tensions between the two nations




Umer Jan attends a rally on 19 February outside the Canadian embassy to encourage Canada in labeling China’s treatment of its Uighur population as genocide. Photograph: Leah Millis/Reuters

Leyland Cecco in Toronto
Mon 22 Feb 2021 16.27 EST


1,041

Canada has become the second country in the world to describe China’s treatment of its Uighur minority as a genocide, following a contentious parliamentary vote which is likely to further raise diplomatic tensions between the two nations.
Lawmakers approved the non-binding motion, brought forward by opposition Conservatives, to recognize China’s actions in the north-western Xinjiang province as a genocide against Muslim Uighurs.

Prime minister Justin Trudeau and senior members of cabinet did not attend the vote on Monday. All other Liberal members present voted in favour of the motion, except the foreign affairs minister, Marc Garneau, who abstained on behalf of the government.
By calling the actions in China a genocide, Canada joins the United States, which made the determination shortly before Donald Trump left office. A similar attempt on a vote in the UK failed earlier this month.
But the move by the Canadian parliament is likely to bring a host of new political challenges for the prime minister, who has tried in recent years to strike a balance between pushing back against China’s hostilities and maintaining cordial relations with Beijing.
Trudeau, whose Liberal party governs without a parliamentary majority, had previously spoken out against bringing the motion to a vote, telling reporters that genocide was an “extremely loaded” term and that more study of the issue was needed before a determination could be made.
Over the weekend, China’s ambassador to Canada criticized the vote, telling the Canadian Press that officials in Ottawa should stay out of China’s internal politics.
“We firmly oppose that because it runs counter to the facts. And it’s like, you know, interfering in our domestic affairs,” said Cong Peiwu. “There’s nothing like genocide happening in Xinjiang at all.”



'Our souls are dead': how I survived a Chinese 're-education' camp for Uighurs
Read more
More than 1 million Uighurs have been detained in camps in Xinjiang province, and reports have emerged of systematic rape and sexual violence. China denies such allegations and describes the facilities as vocational and educational training centres, saying it is trying to stamp out extremism.
But last October, a Canadian parliamentary subcommittee determined that China’s treatment of Uighurs constituted a genocide.
The motion is likely to escalate tensions between the two countries, whose relationship has already undergone significant strain since the arrest on a US warrant of Huawei’s Meng Wanzhou in December 2018. Within days, two Canadian citizens – Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor – were detained in China.
Canada has described the men’s detention as “hostage diplomacy”.
Ahead of the vote, the Conservative leader, Erin O’Toole, had said the motion was necessary to send a “clear and unequivocal signal that we will stand up for human rights and the dignity of human rights, even if it means sacrificing some economic opportunity”.
The Conservatives, New Democrats, Bloc Québécois and Greens have all called for sanctions against Chinese officials and for the upcoming Olympic Winter Games to be moved from Beijing.










Canada votes to recognize China’s treatment of Uighur population as genocide


Parliament’s move was not supported by Trudeau and likely to raise diplomatic tensions between the two nations




www.theguardian.com

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## KurtisBrian

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _The 5-eyes alliance has just lost one eye. Just starve out the remaining 4 one by one.
> There is no need for China to do anything and absolutely nothing they can do about her. Germany and Japan won't join them.
> Modi is feeling mighty uncomfortable.
> China don't care either.
> China FM has put out a feeler and if Sleepy Joe Biden failed to capitalize on this opportunity, USA has more to lose in the longer run.
> 
> US just printed 40% of her entire US dollar currency to keep herself afloat over the last 10 months. Can she raised interest rate without triggering an inflation. The stock market will crashes.
> When USA is down, what would the rest do.
> 
> That is why Boris Johnson suddenly woke up and declared himself a sinophile.
> _



Boris Johnson is a Turk, NOT a Brit. Judging by Hitler and his Nazis or Stalin and the Russians, when people and nations in ethnically diverse countries go insane due to economic troubles; ethnicity, genetics, lineage become VERY important. In homogeneous societies the insanity can take the form of genocidal purges of certain classes of people and invasions other groups (Cambodia and Japan). 
Boris does NOT belong to the group in the land he lives. When the SHTF Boris won't last long.
Israelis knew this was coming since they were the cause of much of it...they have been building a bolt holes for a long time.

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## CAPRICORN-88




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## Gilljutt

TaiShang said:


> While neofascists in Canada is busy with faking humanity, here is a thing they can retrospectively ponder on (they have been part and parcel of almost every US crimes against humanity in post-war period)
> 
> ***
> 
> *US Atrocities in Korean War - Chem and Bio Weapons, Mass Civilian Bombing and Execution*
> 
> With the world's press spending a great deal of its energy on the rather fractious relationship between the United States and North Korea, a look back in time gives us some fascinating insight regarding the geopolitical stresses that rule the region, particularly the stresses that occurred during the Korean War.
> 
> Thanks to the International Action Center and the International Association of Democratic Lawyers (IADL), a Non-Governmental Organization which was founded in 1946 and acts as a consultative group to UNESCO, we have an interesting document that outlines some of America's actions on the Korean Peninsula during the early 1950s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In March 1952, the IADL issued a Report on U.S. Crimes in Korea during the Korean War. Here is a screen capture showing the title page:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the early 1950s, the Government of the *Democratic People's Republic of Korea repeatedly asked the United Nations to protest violations of international law by their enemies, the United States-led international coalition.*
> 
> These requests were ignored by the United Nations and, as such, the Council of the International Association of Democratic Lawyers set up a Commission consisting of lawyers from several nations to investigate these allegations with a "boots on the ground" trip to Korea which took place from March 3rd to March 19th, 1952, visiting the provinces of North and South Piengan, Hwang Hai, Kang Wan, including the towns of Pyongyang, Nampo, Kaichen, Pek Dong, Amju, Sinchon, Anak, Sariwon and Wonsan among others.
> 
> Here is a list of the lawyers that saw first-hand what had occurred in the DPRK:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The IADL notes that, under United Nations rules, the U.S. intervention on the Korean Peninsula was unlawful and that President Truman's orders to the American Navy and Air Force should be considered an "aggressive act" that went against the United Nations Charter.
> 
> Here are some of the more interesting findings of the IADL Commission:
> 
> *1.) Bacteriological Warfare:*
> 
> The Commission investigated the allegations that *American forces in Korea were using bacteriological weapons against both the DPRK armed forces and the nation's civilian population. *Between the 28th of January and the 12th of March (i.e. during the dead of winter), 1952, the Commission found the following insects which carried bacteria in many different locations:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Commission noted that many of the insect species had not been found in Korea prior to the arrival of American forces and that many of them were found in mixed groups or clusters that would not normally be found together, for example, flies and spiders.
> 
> It also noted that the January temperature was 1 degree Celsius (just above freezing) to 5 degrees Celsius in February but that the prevailing average temperature was far below the freezing level, temperatures that are extremely hostile to insect life.
> 
> The insects were infected with the following bacteria which include plague, cholera and typhus:
> 
> 
> Eberthella typhus
> Bacillus paratyphi A and B
> Shigella dysenteriae
> Vibrio cholera
> Pasturella pestis
> 
> Here are some examples of what was reported by local citizens:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, a great quantity of fish of a species which live in regions between fresh water and salt water were found; these fish were found in a half rotten state and were infected with cholera.
> 
> *2.) Chemical Weapons:*
> 
> On various occasions since May 6th, 1951, American planes used asphyxiating and other gases or chemical weapons as follows:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *In the first attack on Nampo City, there were 1,379 casualties of which 480 died of suffocation and 647 others were affected by gas.
> 
> 3.) Mass executions of civilians*:
> 
> According to witnesses, *the commander of the U.S. Forces in the region of Sinchon by the name of Harrison ordered the mass killing of 35,383 civilians (19,149 men and 16,234 women) during the period between October 17th and December 7th, 1950.
> 
> The civilians were pushed into a deep open grave, doused with fuel oil and set on fire. *Those who tried to escape were shot.
> In another case, on October 20th, 2015, 500 men women and children were forced into an air raid cave shelter located in the city of Sinchon. Harrison ordered American soldiers to put explosives into the shelter and seal it with sacks of earth prior to the fuse being lit.
> Here are other examples of mass murders:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *4.) Bombing and Attacking Civilians*:
> 
> Prior to the Korean War, the capital city of North Korea, Pyongyang, had a population of 464,000. As a result of the war, the population had fallen to 181,000 by December 31, 1951. In the period between June 27, 1950 and the Commission's visit, more than 30,000 incendiary and explosive devices were dropped on the city, *destroying 64,000 out of 80,000 houses, 32 hospitals and dispensaries (despite the fact that they were marked with a red cross), 64 churches, 99 schools and university buildings.*
> 
> Here is a description of one of the aerial bombardments of Pyongyang:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the conclusion of the Commission:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The IADL Commission unanimously found that the *United States was guilty of crimes against humanity during the Korean War and that there was a pattern of behaviour which constitutes genocide.*
> 
> Let's close this posting with the conclusion of the 2001 Korea International War Crimes Tribunal which examined the testimony of civilians from both North Korea and South Korea over the period from 1945 to 2001:
> 
> 
> And Washington wonders why the North Koreans are so hostile toward the United States!
> 
> The irony of Washington's criticism of other nations (i.e Syria) and their use of chemical weapons is stunningly hypocritical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US Atrocities in Korean War - Chem and Bio Weapons,*



Where would you rather live North or South Korea?


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## kankan326

I'm sure 100% of the voters have never been to Xinjiang. What a weird world

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## CAPRICORN-88




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## KurtisBrian

What kind of people pass judgement based upon conjecture and rumor? Whatever those kinds of people are they should not be in gov't or in any position of influence.

Read his name: Justin Trudeau (you'd think it is just water but look again) 
Ju's tin (tin man/golem) Trud (reversed durt/dirt) eau water... or water dirt thus MUD or DUMB. That is the name of the guy who is leading the Canadian gov't, "Dumb Tin man of the Jews". omg


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## hualushui



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## KurtisBrian

hualushui said:


> View attachment 719271



Should write that as Genocide by the Spanish and Portuguese and number unknown.


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## Itachi

ZeEa5KPul said:


> It has better per-capita GDP because of what it did to the native population (actual genocide), the enslavement of Africans, and the plunder of the world's wealth. Why are you alright with that? Is it because you get your share of the spoils? What makes you any different from the Pakistani government you condemn? By your telling, they keep quiet because they get the CPEC spoils - so what makes them any different from you?



When did Aussies enslave Africans!? LOLOL

We're talking about Aussies.....not Muricans...

Either way, what's done is done. What's being done by China today is what matters.


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## Chanakyaa

'China's well treatment of Uighurs priority of Turkey'


Ruling Justice and Development Party's (AK Party) spokesperson Ömer Çelik emphasized in a statement late Tuesday that Turkey is closely following the...




www.dailysabah.com






*'China's well treatment of Uighurs priority of Turkey'*
*BY DAILY SABAH*
ISTANBUL DIPLOMACY 
FEB 23, 2021 8:35 PM GMT+3



Ruling Justice and Development Party's (AK Party) spokesman Ömer Çelik speaks during a press conference in Ankara on Feb. 13, 2021 (AA Photo)


"Turkey's utmost priority is that Uighur Turks in China are treated well," ruling Justice and Development Party's (AK Party) spokesman Ömer Çelik said in a statement late Tuesday.
"We follow footage from region with concern," he added.
"Only way to eliminate bad news coming from region is for China to end some of its unfavorable practices against Uighur Turks," he said.
In a statement in late last year, Çelik also urged China to correct its policies. "A clear distinction must be made between terrorists and innocent civilians," he said.
The Foreign Ministry also previously said that Turkey is concerned over the human rights situation in China’s Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region, adding that Ankara expected Uighurs to be treated as equal citizens of China.


According to the ministry, a Turkish committee voiced Ankara’s concerns over Uighurs at the 75th United Nations General Assembly (UNGA).
"While respecting China’s territorial integrity, the expectations of our country and the international community from Chinese authorities is that Xinjiang’s Uighur Turks and other Muslim minorities live in peace as equal citizens of China and that their cultural and religious identities are respected, as well as guaranteed," the committee said.
It was stated that Turkey, as a country with ethnic, religious and cultural ties with Uighur Turks, is monitoring reports on human rights violations against the Uighurs and other Muslim minorities with concern.
Turkey reminded China of the U.N. Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination’s (CERD) eight recommendations made in August 2018. “The committee's concerns and suggestions are also valid today and steps have to be taken in this manner,” it said.
The statement said that Turkey would continue constructive and direct dialogue with China in this regard while following the issue on international platforms including the U.N. and the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC).
In a separate statement, the ministry stressed once again that Turkey placed high importance on the peace, security, happiness and welfare of the Uighur Turkic people. "Our country has a national line regarding this issue and made a national declaration within this scope," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hami Aksoy said.
Beijing's policy in Xinjiang has drawn widespread criticism from rights groups, including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch (HRW).
The region is home to 10 million Uighurs. The Turkic Muslim group, which makes up around 45% of Xinjiang's population, has long accused China's authorities of cultural, religious and economic discrimination.
Up to 1 million people, or about 7% of the Muslim population in Xinjiang, have been incarcerated in an expanding network of "political reeducation" camps, according to U.S. officials and U.N. experts.


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## Gilljutt

The Turks have close cultural ties with the Chinese Uighur. There must be some rumblings within Turkey causing this statement to be made. Pakistan would never make such a fuss.


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## MajesticPug

When a lie told a hundred times, it becomes the 'truth'. BBC, CNN, and NYTimes, among Western propaganda machines, know this line very well.

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## Titanium100

Chanakyaa said:


> 'China's well treatment of Uighurs priority of Turkey'
> 
> 
> Ruling Justice and Development Party's (AK Party) spokesperson Ömer Çelik emphasized in a statement late Tuesday that Turkey is closely following the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailysabah.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *'China's well treatment of Uighurs priority of Turkey'*
> *BY DAILY SABAH*
> ISTANBUL DIPLOMACY
> FEB 23, 2021 8:35 PM GMT+3
> 
> 
> 
> Ruling Justice and Development Party's (AK Party) spokesman Ömer Çelik speaks during a press conference in Ankara on Feb. 13, 2021 (AA Photo)
> 
> 
> "Turkey's utmost priority is that Uighur Turks in China are treated well," ruling Justice and Development Party's (AK Party) spokesman Ömer Çelik said in a statement late Tuesday.
> "We follow footage from region with concern," he added.
> "Only way to eliminate bad news coming from region is for China to end some of its unfavorable practices against Uighur Turks," he said.
> In a statement in late last year, Çelik also urged China to correct its policies. "A clear distinction must be made between terrorists and innocent civilians," he said.
> The Foreign Ministry also previously said that Turkey is concerned over the human rights situation in China’s Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region, adding that Ankara expected Uighurs to be treated as equal citizens of China.
> 
> 
> According to the ministry, a Turkish committee voiced Ankara’s concerns over Uighurs at the 75th United Nations General Assembly (UNGA).
> "While respecting China’s territorial integrity, the expectations of our country and the international community from Chinese authorities is that Xinjiang’s Uighur Turks and other Muslim minorities live in peace as equal citizens of China and that their cultural and religious identities are respected, as well as guaranteed," the committee said.
> It was stated that Turkey, as a country with ethnic, religious and cultural ties with Uighur Turks, is monitoring reports on human rights violations against the Uighurs and other Muslim minorities with concern.
> Turkey reminded China of the U.N. Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination’s (CERD) eight recommendations made in August 2018. “The committee's concerns and suggestions are also valid today and steps have to be taken in this manner,” it said.
> The statement said that Turkey would continue constructive and direct dialogue with China in this regard while following the issue on international platforms including the U.N. and the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC).
> In a separate statement, the ministry stressed once again that Turkey placed high importance on the peace, security, happiness and welfare of the Uighur Turkic people. "Our country has a national line regarding this issue and made a national declaration within this scope," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hami Aksoy said.
> Beijing's policy in Xinjiang has drawn widespread criticism from rights groups, including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch (HRW).
> The region is home to 10 million Uighurs. The Turkic Muslim group, which makes up around 45% of Xinjiang's population, has long accused China's authorities of cultural, religious and economic discrimination.
> Up to 1 million people, or about 7% of the Muslim population in Xinjiang, have been incarcerated in an expanding network of "political reeducation" camps, according to U.S. officials and U.N. experts.



All the Xinjiang related stuff you have to post it in it's original thread. Forum has created a specific designed thread for it. This one seems geninue but majority of them are propaganda and they all belong to that thread the propaganda once and the real ones. As per forum rules


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## zectech

Uighurs are not massacred, are not robbed of their homes, are not deported. China sought to de-radicalize the community because of widespread terrorism. So instead of committing a genocide like the US did to Iraq in bombing the sh*t out of the country and murdering 10%+ of Iraqi population, or kicking the Uighurs out of their homes like zionists did to Palestinians... China instead did a quick re-education and de-escalation of tensions... and the West went apesh*t and lost their minds because the plan to balkanize China with Free Tibet. Free Hong Kong. Free Taiwan. Free East Turkistan. and soon to be Free Manchuria was defeated. And later was planned Free Inner Mongolia. And then even further balkanization of the rest of China. China defeated the nazi plan to use the Uighurs as terrorists to bring down China. Bankers can't handle this. Zionists can't handle this. trump Nazis can't handle this. The genocide gang of the West was defeated by China. No Uighurs died.

Here is a real genocide:









Deportation of the Chechens and Ingush - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





1/3 of the entire population of Chechens were murdered by Russians.

Here is another genocide:









First Chechen War - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Up to 1/10 of entire population of Chechen were murdered by Russians.

Here is another genocide:









Second Chechen War - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





1/4 of entire population of Chechens were murdered by Russians over a false flag by putin blamed on the people of the Caucasus.

You have to be insane to call **not one dead Uighur** - a "genocide". Uighurs live on ancestral homes. Uighurs not deported. China brings jobs and development to Uighurs. More than those rebellious Turks deserve. China is too good for Uighurs because Chinese are good and humble people.

Those who need to be driven from the land are Western genociders driven from occupying much of the world from Iraq to Japan. And after that driven from the Americas and after that driven from Europe. Those lands were stolen by a heinous unforgivable crime of genocide. The presence of genociders on those lands is an unspeakable horrendous crime.


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## zectech

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364147890181054464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364148872025681920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364151443029176320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364155173275328520

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## Char

Chanakyaa said:


> *Canada votes to recognize China’s treatment of Uighur population as genocide*
> Parliament’s move was not supported by Trudeau and likely to raise diplomatic tensions between the two nations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umer Jan attends a rally on 19 February outside the Canadian embassy to encourage Canada in labeling China’s treatment of its Uighur population as genocide. Photograph: Leah Millis/Reuters
> 
> Leyland Cecco in Toronto
> Mon 22 Feb 2021 16.27 EST
> 
> 
> 1,041
> 
> Canada has become the second country in the world to describe China’s treatment of its Uighur minority as a genocide, following a contentious parliamentary vote which is likely to further raise diplomatic tensions between the two nations.
> Lawmakers approved the non-binding motion, brought forward by opposition Conservatives, to recognize China’s actions in the north-western Xinjiang province as a genocide against Muslim Uighurs.
> 
> Prime minister Justin Trudeau and senior members of cabinet did not attend the vote on Monday. All other Liberal members present voted in favour of the motion, except the foreign affairs minister, Marc Garneau, who abstained on behalf of the government.
> By calling the actions in China a genocide, Canada joins the United States, which made the determination shortly before Donald Trump left office. A similar attempt on a vote in the UK failed earlier this month.
> But the move by the Canadian parliament is likely to bring a host of new political challenges for the prime minister, who has tried in recent years to strike a balance between pushing back against China’s hostilities and maintaining cordial relations with Beijing.
> Trudeau, whose Liberal party governs without a parliamentary majority, had previously spoken out against bringing the motion to a vote, telling reporters that genocide was an “extremely loaded” term and that more study of the issue was needed before a determination could be made.
> Over the weekend, China’s ambassador to Canada criticized the vote, telling the Canadian Press that officials in Ottawa should stay out of China’s internal politics.
> “We firmly oppose that because it runs counter to the facts. And it’s like, you know, interfering in our domestic affairs,” said Cong Peiwu. “There’s nothing like genocide happening in Xinjiang at all.”
> 
> 
> 
> 'Our souls are dead': how I survived a Chinese 're-education' camp for Uighurs
> Read more
> More than 1 million Uighurs have been detained in camps in Xinjiang province, and reports have emerged of systematic rape and sexual violence. China denies such allegations and describes the facilities as vocational and educational training centres, saying it is trying to stamp out extremism.
> But last October, a Canadian parliamentary subcommittee determined that China’s treatment of Uighurs constituted a genocide.
> The motion is likely to escalate tensions between the two countries, whose relationship has already undergone significant strain since the arrest on a US warrant of Huawei’s Meng Wanzhou in December 2018. Within days, two Canadian citizens – Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor – were detained in China.
> Canada has described the men’s detention as “hostage diplomacy”.
> Ahead of the vote, the Conservative leader, Erin O’Toole, had said the motion was necessary to send a “clear and unequivocal signal that we will stand up for human rights and the dignity of human rights, even if it means sacrificing some economic opportunity”.
> The Conservatives, New Democrats, Bloc Québécois and Greens have all called for sanctions against Chinese officials and for the upcoming Olympic Winter Games to be moved from Beijing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canada votes to recognize China’s treatment of Uighur population as genocide
> 
> 
> Parliament’s move was not supported by Trudeau and likely to raise diplomatic tensions between the two nations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com



Maybe five/four eyes will not join Beijing winter olympic games, nothing more.


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## CAPRICORN-88

_Trudeau realized that Canada has more to lose In a longer run. But he does not know how to get out of it. 
The question here is: Does China give a damn?
IMO for Canada, this is an era of waste opportunity. What a pity?  _

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## padamchen

Chanakyaa said:


> *Canada votes to recognize China’s treatment of Uighur population as genocide*
> Parliament’s move was not supported by Trudeau and likely to raise diplomatic tensions between the two nations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umer Jan attends a rally on 19 February outside the Canadian embassy to encourage Canada in labeling China’s treatment of its Uighur population as genocide. Photograph: Leah Millis/Reuters
> 
> Leyland Cecco in Toronto
> Mon 22 Feb 2021 16.27 EST
> 
> 
> 1,041
> 
> Canada has become the second country in the world to describe China’s treatment of its Uighur minority as a genocide, following a contentious parliamentary vote which is likely to further raise diplomatic tensions between the two nations.
> Lawmakers approved the non-binding motion, brought forward by opposition Conservatives, to recognize China’s actions in the north-western Xinjiang province as a genocide against Muslim Uighurs.
> 
> Prime minister Justin Trudeau and senior members of cabinet did not attend the vote on Monday. All other Liberal members present voted in favour of the motion, except the foreign affairs minister, Marc Garneau, who abstained on behalf of the government.
> By calling the actions in China a genocide, Canada joins the United States, which made the determination shortly before Donald Trump left office. A similar attempt on a vote in the UK failed earlier this month.
> But the move by the Canadian parliament is likely to bring a host of new political challenges for the prime minister, who has tried in recent years to strike a balance between pushing back against China’s hostilities and maintaining cordial relations with Beijing.
> Trudeau, whose Liberal party governs without a parliamentary majority, had previously spoken out against bringing the motion to a vote, telling reporters that genocide was an “extremely loaded” term and that more study of the issue was needed before a determination could be made.
> Over the weekend, China’s ambassador to Canada criticized the vote, telling the Canadian Press that officials in Ottawa should stay out of China’s internal politics.
> “We firmly oppose that because it runs counter to the facts. And it’s like, you know, interfering in our domestic affairs,” said Cong Peiwu. “There’s nothing like genocide happening in Xinjiang at all.”
> 
> 
> 
> 'Our souls are dead': how I survived a Chinese 're-education' camp for Uighurs
> Read more
> More than 1 million Uighurs have been detained in camps in Xinjiang province, and reports have emerged of systematic rape and sexual violence. China denies such allegations and describes the facilities as vocational and educational training centres, saying it is trying to stamp out extremism.
> But last October, a Canadian parliamentary subcommittee determined that China’s treatment of Uighurs constituted a genocide.
> The motion is likely to escalate tensions between the two countries, whose relationship has already undergone significant strain since the arrest on a US warrant of Huawei’s Meng Wanzhou in December 2018. Within days, two Canadian citizens – Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor – were detained in China.
> Canada has described the men’s detention as “hostage diplomacy”.
> Ahead of the vote, the Conservative leader, Erin O’Toole, had said the motion was necessary to send a “clear and unequivocal signal that we will stand up for human rights and the dignity of human rights, even if it means sacrificing some economic opportunity”.
> The Conservatives, New Democrats, Bloc Québécois and Greens have all called for sanctions against Chinese officials and for the upcoming Olympic Winter Games to be moved from Beijing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canada votes to recognize China’s treatment of Uighur population as genocide
> 
> 
> Parliament’s move was not supported by Trudeau and likely to raise diplomatic tensions between the two nations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com



A boycott of the Olympics will for sure dent their prestige depending on the block that forms and agrees to it.

A good idea.

Coupled with sanctions.

Money and prestige.

Cheers, Doc


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## GumNaam

they are only confirming the inevitable, i.e. a clash of civilizations. and its not lookin' too good for the western civilization with almost every western economy is severe turmoil. I see on the american streets on a daily basis...

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## TaiShang

1,200+ people from over 100 countries have visited Xinjiang since 2018, including UN officials & foreign diplomats posted in China. China welcomes foreign friends who uphold the principles of objectivity & justice to visit Xinjiang to see the economic & social development there. Editors: Jin Jianyu and Huo Siyu/GT Graphic: Xu Zihe/GT


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## Beidou2020

Bottom line is the Western world is on a rapid decline in every area. Europe is the sick man of the world and barely clinging onto any relevance. The Anglo-Saxon era is coming to an end too. This petrifies them because the next most powerful civilisation is China. They fear China’s scale, efficiency and unity.

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## Team Blue

ZeEa5KPul said:


> That doesn't go in quotes. China is already a superpower by every measure, and they haven't invented the word yet for what it will be called in the future.



Seriously, WTH? I understand someone not liking the PRC but they're a super power in their own right at this point.

As far as the Uyghur's are concerned, from what I've seen it's not great. But it also doesn't seem to exceed the vast, vast array of crimes other nations have and continue to commit for their own benefit.


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## Prince Kassad

It IS a genocide, regardless of the label. It meets all necessary UN criteria.


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## ZeEa5KPul

Team Blue said:


> As far as the Uyghur's are concerned, from what I've seen it's not great.


Frankly speaking, that's true. But the capacity for any nuanced discussion about China's policy toward its Uighur population (and its minority populations in general) has been obliterated by Western propaganda.

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## zectech

Stone Age genocide: Vengeful prehistoric invaders who changed Europe FOREVER


A MYSTERIOUS race of invaders who embarked on a “genocidal” killing spree after arriving in Europe thousands of years ago, changing the continent forever, were probably motivated by a desire for vengeance, an archaeologist has said.




www.express.co.uk





Kick out the genociders from Europe and return Europe to the natives of Europe. The longer this theft goes on, the worse injustice to those who were victims of mass genocide. The level of genocide in Europe is not comparable in human history. All the native men were murdered and the native European women who did not share their husband's and father's fate of genocide, were raped to produce sons who went and committed genocide to the next European community. Europe has a huge problem of evil seed, which is why most evils in the world are from Europe/North America. Because it is genetic, the identity of fake "whites" in Europe is to bully and genocide.

*The US Has Been at war 225 out of 243 years since 1776 *









The US Has Been at war 225 out of 243 years since 1776


The American history of overt and covert foreign interventions dates back to 1811, when it had invaded Chile, just a year after this South American country had gained independence from...




www.thenews.com.pk





Many of those wars, especially against the Native Americans were genocidal.

The lesson of the story, is genociders get weapons that are better than peaceful European native people, and the genociders wipe out the natives using superior weapons. So, very imperative for China to have better technology than the West. It is about survival of not only this planet, but other planets too.


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## 52051

Beidou2020 said:


> Bottom line is the Western world is on a rapid decline in every area. Europe is the sick man of the world and barely clinging onto any relevance. The Anglo-Saxon era is coming to an end too. This petrifies them because the next most powerful civilisation is China. They fear China’s scale, efficiency and unity.



It is the anglo-saxon world, not the entire west world, the anglo has lots of enemies in the west world to begin with.

To believe the entire west world will fight for them is like Hitler to believe, that, in 1945, Germany can form an alliance with the US and Britain to fight Russians, it is only a dotard's wet dream.

There are already so many people outside of China, believe China is about to replace the US, it is already approach the tipping point.

If the US were lose a war to China, thats the last straw, they will lost most of their supports in the world, since their loss will greatly encourage all the regional powers to challenge them, and with China's win, China only need some small effects to replace them in the world.

Thats why they could not afford to lose a war to China, thats why recently their generals and military leaders keep talking about using nuclear weapons, thats the stuff they believe they still have an advantage vis-via China now.

China should prepare the coming war very seriously, especially the nuke part, since in case of a war when the US were in disadvantage position, they could really use tactical nukes if China's nuke arsenal were insufficient, because they could not afford to lose this one, its not korea war or vietnam war, its a war that could end their era.

So when China take back Taiwan, better be fully prepared an all-out war with the US and their anglo-lapdogs, and better get sufficient nukes just in case.

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## zectech

52051 said:


> It is the anglo-saxon world, not the entire west world,



It is the British-American alliance that is the worst of the worst.






Both British and Washington are still fighting WWI, wanting to divide up the world between London, Washington, and Paris. With Moscow as useful idiots.

So not Anglo-Saxon. British. British Empire of Canada, US, Australia, NZ and homebase of the UK. And France. Now Italy is possibly in the camp of losers with a banker as "prime minister".

The Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms were introspective, did not wage wars throughout the world. Anglo-Saxon Britain was a good time for Europe. Italians have no problems with Anglo-Saxons. We were betrayed by the British, French and Russians in Africa who armed our enemies. Betrayed in the Mutilated Victory of WWI, where Britain and France kept the spoils. Britain still hold Turkey as colony and puppet regime. Turkey is UK project. Then Italy punished for having small colonies in DARVO by abusive UK and France in their colonies. Then pushed into an alliance with those Italians hate - nazis, after Italy wanted a European war to destroy Nazi Germany. These British Nazis are cunning and evil.

And neo-nazis are the enemy of the free world, besides the British Empire. These who are not British, yet have a taste for genocide and bloodlust, such as Salvini and lega idiots.









Italy’s Far-Right Leaders Are Pushing Debunked Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories To Millions Of Followers


Struggling for attention, Italy’s former deputy prime minister and others are sharing false claims the virus was engineered in a Chinese lab.




www.buzzfeed.com





Lega loser Salvini wanted to sue China over US bioweapon attack. putin supports the rise of Salvini. putin is in on it, the same as Joe Biden. Simply an option the deepstate does not want to win, the opposition to USA genocide is Russian genociders. So you are trapped

The Bankers have two sides controlled: banker neo-liberals vs neo-nazi racists.

Italy wanted to defeat that d**chebag Hitler before the Allies. Hitler was a project of the Entente. a controlled puppet of the banksters to get Germany into a big long war for a new world order.









How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power


Rumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading with the Enemy Act are still being felt by today's president.




www.theguardian.com










The Horrifying American Roots of Nazi Eugenics | History News Network







historynewsnetwork.org









__





Bush, Rockefeller, Rothschild & Hitler – American Free Press







americanfreepress.net













Christopher Bjerknes: Hitler Was a False Flag


Christopher Bjerknes



www.unz.com





zionist run media in Germany treated Hitler with same kid gloves as zionist media treated domestic terrorist trump, both Hitler and trump were puppets of the media establishment, both did nothing to stop Hitler or trump other than to basically say Hitler is bombastic and unorthodox:









Who Voted for Hitler?


Just as there are myths about Trump voters, there are damaging misconceptions about who brought the Nazis to power.




www.thenation.com





Hitler was run out of London and New York big pockets and rise was funded by them. London controlled both sides of WWII to cripple the threat of Germany and to vassalize any German ambitions of rivaling the UK. China was not even on the radar then, the enemy was Germany and propaganda was aimed at dehumanizing Germans. That is the tactics of these warmongering gencoiders.

Russia is a cia project. US seeks to control both sides of every conflict. Yeltsin was the first of the cia puppets. The 1996 election, even Medvedev asserted was rigged by the cia, so that cia puppet Yeltsin continued the vassalization of Russia by Washington.

putin is the nationalist cia solution to the anger of the Russians in Yeltin selling off Russia cheap to Western capitalists and criminal banksters. Yeltsin, the cia puppet, ok-ed the cia successor to Yeltsin. putin was agreed to be successor so long as Yeltsin is not thrown in a Russian prison for selling out Russia to criminal gangsters and banksters. putin is the nationalist leader who is the controlled opposition to Washington. putin plays this role in vilifying Washington for obvious crimes. And Washington in turn vilifies putin. This is the strategy to get opposition of Washington into Russian plot. If you don't like Washington and the cia, you are a Russian agent.

If the US does not control both sides to every conflict, US loses it. What is precious to the US gets lost. That is why the US is losing their minds over China. China is not controlled by Washington. So China is even a greater danger than Hitler, the puppet.

The British has not seen a danger like China since The German Kaisar and the German Empire. China is no puppet of Western Imperialists.

That is why US/UK is taking the same route as the war path of 1914.









A Manufacturing War Between the UK and Germany in the 19th Century Set the Stage For Today's Trade Crisis


Today, the word “globalism” is on everyone’s’ mind. Some fear a world increasingly dependent on foreign trade. Others worry about domestic industries dying due to over-seas competition. Many are anxious about what a changing economy will mean for their material prospects. Do we allow free trade...




historycollection.com





The loss of Italy in the Triple Alliance defeated Germany. So China needs to keep allies and friends, even in Europe.

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## kankan326

Still remember a year ago how western countries criticized all China's measures to contain the covid? "Violation of human right", "Concentration camp". What about now? Some of western countries built concentration camps in their home.

Unlike democratic countries, who prefer to talk than act, China government is a problem solver. When there is a problem, measures to deal with it will be adopted, soon. No matter it is virus spread or terrorism spread. Somethings must be done to stop it.

Unfortunately doers always receive criticisms from talkers. Especially in a world where a doer is surrounded by a horde of talkers. Let's check how western countries dealt with terrorism. Except criticizing terrorist attack when it happened and lighting candles after it, literally they did nothing. Of course they bombed some places. But it only created more terrorists. We know after the pandemic next terrorist attack is bound to happen in the western countries. It's only matter of time.

How on the earth to eliminate terrorism? It's pretty much like how we deal with the covid virus. Susceptible population should be isolated from spread of extremism. For those who are already infected, build concentration hospitals to cure them and to prevent them infecting others. And another important step is, injecting vaccine to improve people immune capability. Which is what the "Xingjiang concentration camps" are doing. Teaching those incapable Uyghurs some working skills and mandarine. It is said that ignorance and poverty are the cradle of terrorism. Chinese government is doing right thing.

Terrorism can not be wiped out by criticsms and lighting candles. In western countries' muslim communities thousands of jobless young men wandering around in the streets. We know there are somethings western countries should do, insead of sitting there talking. Their muslim population is getting bigger and bigger. When the heat reaches to a point that forces them to act, western countries will copy China's mode. China has successfully stopped both terrorism and covid virus spread anyways. There must be somethings worth learning.

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## samv

The west already has a long history of concentration camps to be honest.

They've also carried out many genocides.

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## beijingwalker

No need, the west themselves are terrorists terrorizing the world for centuries.

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## Akasa

This post is just another example of whataboutism, not to mention that the circumstances in which the Western & Chinese concentration camps were built are entirely different.

You cannot seriously compare public health restrictions to combat a global pandemic - of which "concentration camps" is NOT a part - to China interning an entire swath of their population based on ethnicity and religion due to so-called "terrorism".

China's leaders will face their maker when the military forces of democratic nations finally force an unconditional surrender in Beijing.

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## KurtisBrian

beijingwalker said:


> No need, the west themselves are terrorists terrorizing the world for centuries.



have you figured out what covid is doing yet? You want us to be bad, right? Okay, we'll be bad like the slaver Catholics.


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## GumNaam

kankan326 said:


> Still remember a year ago how western countries criticized all China's measures to contain the covid? "Violation of human right", "Concentration camp". What about now? Some of western countries built concentration camps in their home.
> 
> Unlike democratic countries, who prefer to talk than act, China government is a problem solver. When there is a problem, measures to deal with it will be adopted, soon. No matter it is virus spread or terrorism spread. Somethings must be done to stop it.
> 
> Unfortunately doers always receive criticisms from talkers. Especially in a world where a doer is surrounded by a horde of talkers. Let's check how western countries dealt with terrorism. Except criticizing terrorist attack when it happened and lighting candles after it, literally they did nothing. Of course they bombed some places. But it only created more terrorists. We know after the pandemic next terrorist attack is bound to happen in the western countries. It's only matter of time.
> 
> How on the earth to eliminate terrorism? It's pretty much like how we deal with the covid virus. Susceptible population should be isolated from spread of extremism. For those who are already infected, build concentration hospitals to cure them and to prevent them infecting others. And another important step is, injecting vaccine to improve people immune capability. Which is what the "Xingjiang concentration camps" are doing. Teching those incapable Uyghurs some working skills and mandarine. It is said that ignorance and poverty are the cradle of terrorism. Chinese government is doing right thing.
> 
> Terrorism can not be wiped out by criticsms and lighting candles. In western countries' muslim communities thousands of jobless young men wandering around in the streets. We know there are somethings western countries should do, insead of sitting there talking. Their muslim population is getting bigger and bigger. When the heat reaches to a point that forces them to act, western countries will copy China's mode. China has successfully stopped both terrorism and covid virus spread anyways. There must be somethings worth learning.


we already have concentration camps here, they are called indian reservations & fema camps.


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## KhanBaba2

All this time we were told they are reeducation camps and not concentration camps.

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## Titanium100

This is highly anti-Islam thread and calling for genocide. Perhaps we should follow the lead and build camps for the 40-50m Chinese minorities in Muslim territories.. Maybe then you will understand that this thread is not even pro-China and also very dumb. 

By the way Reported this shitty thread and this poster.. This is the face of Islamohobia

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## beijingwalker

Akasa said:


> China's leaders will face their maker when the military forces of democratic nations finally force an unconditional surrender in Beijing.


This one is the most delusional poster in PDF, he used to call on the Chinese posters here to tell our families in China about some scandal that was the top discussed topics all across the Chinese social media at that time.

It is the most hilarious post ever in PDF, can't imagine how can a human being can be this delusional and brainwashed...






Fresh scandal erupts over vaccine safety in China


Fresh scandal erupts over vaccine safety in China Dominique Patton BEIJING (Reuters) - A scandal over faulty vaccines in China has sparked anger on social media, underscoring the difficulties regulators face in rebuilding trust after years of food and drug safety scares. The incident is a...



defence.pk

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## CAPRICORN-88

_The latest being *Massacre at Capitol Hill*. 
How many people died at the Boston Tea Party Massacre in 1770? Similarly 5 people lost their lives. 

Wow. A massacre! A genocide in Xinjiang but without any evidence aa admitted by the US state department. It is propaganda warfare. 

It is just how one coined these term to mislead the common folks. 

*The image they alleged as a CCP concentration camp in Xinjiang is in fact a real prison not for Uyghurs alone but all criminals.
So similar China News Media can displayed all US penitentiaries as US concentration camp. Except that journalism in China is still ethnical. *

The netizens in China, all 1billion of them show no emotion because the knowledge is well spread and deep inside they are laughing at the ignorant propaganda.

However the propaganda are not meant for the Chinese but basically to spread hatred. _

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## Beast

Akasa said:


> This post is just another example of whataboutism, not to mention that the circumstances in which the Western & Chinese concentration camps were built are entirely different.
> 
> You cannot seriously compare public health restrictions to combat a global pandemic - of which "concentration camps" is NOT a part - to China interning an entire swath of their population based on ethnicity and religion due to so-called "terrorism".
> 
> China's leaders will face their maker when the military forces of democratic nations finally force an unconditional surrender in Beijing.


You will face your maker and answer your lies before Xi. Trust me. Blunt liar and a detestable pest. 
How many of your post have prove to be a joke?

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## striver44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364530097701576706

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364534538764869632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364562627519672320

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## ToddBing

Titanium100 said:


> This is highly anti-Islam thread and calling for genocide. Perhaps we should follow the lead and build camps for the 40-50m Chinese minorities in Muslim territories.. Maybe then you will understand that this thread is not even pro-China and also very dumb.
> 
> By the way Reported this shitty thread and this poster.. This is the face of Islamohobia


Guys who call "Anti-terrorist" "anti-Islam" is really anti-Islam.
We all know that the root of extremism is poverty, and that's what China doing now, to help people reduce poverty, and the effect is obviously.


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## kankan326

Titanium100 said:


> This is highly anti-Islam thread and calling for genocide. Perhaps we should follow the lead and build camps for the 40-50m Chinese minorities in Muslim territories.. Maybe then you will understand that this thread is not even pro-China and also very dumb.
> 
> By the way Reported this shitty thread and this poster.. This is the face of Islamohobia


As long as Chinese minorities launched terrorist attacks to others, no problem for me to build camps for them.


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## Titanium100

ToddBing said:


> Guys who call "Anti-terrorist" "anti-Islam" is really anti-Islam.
> We all know that the root of extremism is poverty, and that's what China doing now, to help people reduce poverty, and the effect is obviously.



Read the thread first it is highly criminal thread. This guy on the up is calling for genocide on the Muslims not terrorists. This is difference.

China herself has denied camps but this poster on the op is somehow claiming it as if it is something to be proud of. It is in truth weakness to take pride in such things and mentally handicapped. Imagine if Malaysia and Indonesia camp their chinese minorities overnight tomorrow?

He was throwing stone while his house is made of glass. There are many chinese diasporas his forgetting this and calling the muslim populations of Europe problem why do you even care about Europe or muslims living there? While you have more people overseas then anyone else.

I personally don't have anything against chinese people but you don't just walk over people expect nothing or provoke them in an uncalled for manner.



kankan326 said:


> As long as Chinese minorities launched terrorist attacks to others, no problem for me to build camps for them.



The problem is that camps are not jail? and they do hold children, women, and families? How is that justice? Lets say one chinese does something shall we camp his entire family or other familis who are unrelated to the matter? This is twisted. Maybe you should understand what camp means first before dropping it on your title and everywhere in the thread

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang's GDP grows 7.2 pct annually from 2014 to 2019, average income growth 9.1 percent annually*
Xinhua
05 Feb 2021, 22:55 GMT+10


5 Feb 2021, 22:55 GMT+10




© Provided by Xinhua

BEIJING, Feb. 5 (Xinhua) -- From 2014 to 2019, the GDP of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region increased from 919.59 billion yuan (about 142 billion U.S. dollars) to 1.36 trillion yuan, with an average annual growth rate of 7.2 percent, official statistics show.

The per capita disposable income in Xinjiang increased by an average annual rate of 9.1 percent during the period, according to a document on lies and the truth about Xinjiang-related issues.

All 3.09 million impoverished people in the region have been lifted out of poverty as it has made unprecedented achievements in economic and social development and improvement of people's livelihood.





__





Xinjiang's GDP grows 7.2 pct annually from 2014 to 2019


© Provided by Xinhua BEIJING, Feb. 5 (Xinhua) -- From 2014 to 2019, the GDP of northwest China Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region increased from 919.59 b




www.chinanews.net


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## xeuss

Titanium100 said:


> Read the thread first it is highly criminal thread. This guy on the up is calling for genocide on the Muslims not terrorists. This is difference.
> 
> China herself has denied camps but this poster on the op is somehow claiming it as if it is something to be proud of. It is in truth weakness to take pride in such things and mentally handicapped. Imagine if Malaysia and Indonesia camp their chinese minorities overnight tomorrow?
> 
> He was throwing stone while his house is made of glass. There are many chinese diasporas his forgetting this and calling the muslim populations of Europe problem why do you even care about Europe or muslims living there? While you have more people overseas then anyone else.
> 
> I personally don't have anything against chinese people but you don't just walk over people expect nothing or provoke them in an uncalled for manner



I agree. I can't believe this thread is still up. The OP should be banned for advocating a criminal act.

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## beijingwalker

Right policies bring stunning result of development

*Xinjiang's GDP grows 7.2 pct annually from 2014 to 2019, average income growth 9.1 percent annually*
Xinhua
5 Feb 2021, 22:55 GMT+10





© Provided by Xinhua

BEIJING, Feb. 5 (Xinhua) -- From 2014 to 2019, the GDP of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region increased from 919.59 billion yuan (about 142 billion U.S. dollars) to 1.36 trillion yuan, with an average annual growth rate of 7.2 percent, official statistics show.

The per capita disposable income in Xinjiang increased by an average annual rate of 9.1 percent during the period, according to a document on lies and the truth about Xinjiang-related issues.

All 3.09 million impoverished people in the region have been lifted out of poverty as it has made unprecedented achievements in economic and social development and improvement of people's livelihood.





__





Xinjiang's GDP grows 7.2 pct annually from 2014 to 2019


© Provided by Xinhua BEIJING, Feb. 5 (Xinhua) -- From 2014 to 2019, the GDP of northwest China Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region increased from 919.59 b




www.chinanews.net

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## kankan326

Titanium100 said:


> The problem is that camps are not jail? and they do hold children, women, and families? How is that justice? Lets say one chinese does something shall we camp his entire family or other familis who are unrelated to the matter? This is twisted. Maybe you should understand what camp means first before dropping it on your title and everywhere the thread


Why I have to answer any questions based on western media lies?

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## beijingwalker

In the eyes of the west, all facilites that people get together to study or to be trained for working skills in China are concentration camps. but where does China's world biggest skilled work force come from?

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## casual

looking at birthrate in isolation proves nothing.
the crash in birthrate is consistent with places that undergoes rapid industrialization and liberalization of women's rights.

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## padamchen

beijingwalker said:


> In the eyes of the west, all facilites that people get together to study or to be trained for working skills in China are concentration camps. but where does China's world biggest skilled work force come from?



Personally I think you guys are doing a great job on the training and re-skilling.

The Chinese system works and is culture congruent for China.

Cheers, Doc

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## kankan326

Titanium100 said:


> Read the thread first it is highly criminal thread. This guy on the up is calling for genocide on the Muslims not terrorists. This is difference.
> 
> China herself has denied camps but this poster on the op is somehow claiming it as if it is something to be proud of. It is in truth weakness to take pride in such things and mentally handicapped. Imagine if Malaysia and Indonesia camp their chinese minorities overnight tomorrow?
> 
> He was throwing stone while his house is made of glass. There are many chinese diasporas his forgetting this and calling the muslim populations of Europe problem why do you even care about Europe or muslims living there? While you have more people overseas then anyone else.
> 
> I personally don't have anything against chinese people but you don't just walk over people expect nothing or provoke them in an uncalled for manner.


Or there is another solution. You Muslims together figure out a way to permanentely get rid of terrorist attack. It's the best chioce. Good for everyone. Otherwise why you prevent others adopting their measures? We can not see innocent people get killed while doing nothing

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## redtom

beijingwalker said:


> In the eyes of the west, all facilites that people get together to study or to be trained for working skills in China are concentration camps. but where does China's world biggest skilled work force come from?


We should realize that hard work is not a good thing in all cultures. Some cultures prefer to rob, some cultures prefer to cheat, and some cultures prefer to stay in shitholes. 

In our mind, giving people jobs and training them in skills is the best thing. But some people prefer to sit around and get paid by the government. Labor creates wealth is a communist concept. Many people believe that wealth is created by nature and that man just owns it.

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## Titanium100

kankan326 said:


> Or there is another resolution. You Muslims together figour out a way to permanentely get rid off terrorist attack. It's the best chioce. Good for everyone. Otherwise why you prevent others to adopt their measures. We can not see innocent people get killed while doing nothing



Everyone has the right to protect themselves and you can take action against any offense but I fail to see how a camp is relevant to this case.

Lets say someone attacked you what is the big deal in that except that you deal with it as you see fit. But camps are not for terrorists but for humans.

You shouldn't try to mix things up. You have like 7-8M Uighur minority and they don't have any political ambition in China and it is forbidden for them to have in a country where they are outnumbered by 1.4 Billion. It is meaningless! The majority of Uighur have assimilated into chinese culture for ages so I fail to see any threats to China and others just leave as they see fit.

But you shouldn't concern yourself with Europe or why the muslim population is growing. Concern about on your borders.

You are there by calling for genocide against the Muslim diasporas everywhere and also against the Chinese disaporas indirectly. As genocide will become the trend if things go according to you ofcourse


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## padamchen

redtom said:


> We should realize that hard work is not a good thing in all cultures. Some cultures prefer to rob, some cultures prefer to cheat, and some cultures prefer to stay in shitholes.
> 
> In our mind, giving people jobs and training them in skills is the best thing. But some people prefer to sit around and get paid by the government. Labor creates wealth is a communist concept. Many people believe that wealth is created by nature and that man just owns it.



Brilliant.

Cheers, Doc


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## kankan326

Titanium100 said:


> Everyone has the right to protect themselves and you can take action against anyone offense but I fail to see how a camp is relevant to this case.
> 
> Lets say someone attacked you what is the big deal in that except that you deal with it as you see fit. But camps are not for terrorists but for humans.
> 
> You shouldn't try to mix things up. You have like 7-8M Uighur minority and they don't have any political ambition in China and it is forbidden for them to have in a country where they are outnumbered by 1.4 Billion. It is meaningless! The majority of Uighur have assimilated into chinese culture for ages so I fail to see any threats to China and others just leave as they see fit.
> 
> But you shouldn't concern yourself with Europe or why the muslim population is growing. Concern about on your borders


I say it again. The camps are not for all Uighurs. Stop quoting lies from western media. You may not know China was one of countries that suffered most terrorist attacks. Just Chinese government didn't report those attacks to outside world.

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## striver44

yes, this liberalization of women include forced detention (if they live in Xinjiang) and forced deportation if they live in other countries.

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## Nan Yang

casual said:


> looking at birthrate in isolation proves nothing.
> the crash in birthrate is consistent with places that undergoes rapid industrialization and liberalization of women's rights.


LOL. Birth rate probably drop from 20 kids to 10 kids.

Do you know how many children you can have when you have more than one wife.


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## Titanium100

kankan326 said:


> I say it again. The camps are not for all Uighurs. Stop quoting lies from western media. You may not know China was one of countries that suffered most terrorist attacks. Just Chinese government didn't report those attacks to outside world.



Your thread is suffering from schizophrenia since you are speaking in double tongues. I already stated I don't believe in the existence of the camps myself but what I take issues with is this thread's existence. It seems like you are speaking in double tongues.

And the tone in this thread is extremely Muslim hostile especially the first post in this thread. This thread is openly calling for genocide


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## TaiShang

kankan326 said:


> Still remember a year ago how western countries criticized all China's measures to contain the covid? "Violation of human right", "Concentration camp". What about now? Some of western countries built concentration camps in their home.
> 
> Unlike democratic countries, who prefer to talk than act, China government is a problem solver. When there is a problem, measures to deal with it will be adopted, soon. No matter it is virus spread or terrorism spread. Somethings must be done to stop it.
> 
> Unfortunately doers always receive criticisms from talkers. Especially in a world where a doer is surrounded by a horde of talkers. Let's check how western countries dealt with terrorism. Except criticizing terrorist attack when it happened and lighting candles after it, literally they did nothing. Of course they bombed some places. But it only created more terrorists. We know after the pandemic next terrorist attack is bound to happen in the western countries. It's only matter of time.
> 
> How on the earth to eliminate terrorism? It's pretty much like how we deal with the covid virus. Susceptible population should be isolated from spread of extremism. For those who are already infected, build concentration hospitals to cure them and to prevent them infecting others. And another important step is, injecting vaccine to improve people immune capability. Which is what the "Xingjiang concentration camps" are doing. Teching those incapable Uyghurs some working skills and mandarine. It is said that ignorance and poverty are the cradle of terrorism. Chinese government is doing right thing.
> 
> Terrorism can not be wiped out by criticsms and lighting candles. In western countries' muslim communities thousands of jobless young men wandering around in the streets. We know there are somethings western countries should do, insead of sitting there talking. Their muslim population is getting bigger and bigger. When the heat reaches to a point that forces them to act, western countries will copy China's mode. China has successfully stopped both terrorism and covid virus spread anyways. There must be somethings worth learning.



Intetestingly, when Xinjiang region was unstable, people lost their life and property to terrorism, radicalism was rampant among small pockets of society, economic development stalled, wages low, poverty existing, the West never mentioned or bothered by human rights in the province.

Once China begun to successfully eradicate terrorism, end indiscriminate killings, ensure economic development, raise Xinjiang GDP highest in Central Asia, achieve life expectancy higher than that of India, achieve positive population growth for all segments, especially minorities, introduce art, literature, music, folklore, theater to daily life, ensure universal housing and healthcare in Xinjiang, the West started to scream human rights.

I feel the West do not think the best of interests of the Chinese nationals in Xinjiang. Maybe the West want Xinjiang to return to underdevelopment, extremism, violence and social detorioration.

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## kankan326

Titanium100 said:


> Your thread is suffering from schizophrenia since you are speaking in double tongues. I already stated I don't believe in the existence of the camps myself but what I take issues with is this thread's existence. It seems like you are speaking in double tongues.
> 
> And the tone in this thread is extremely Muslim hostile especially the first post in this thread. This thread is openly calling for genocide


The word of "concentration camp" was created and used by western media. We call them reeducation schools. But you guys chose to believe west narrative. In my post I said they were for teaching skills and language. If this is genocide, we are all in genocide.

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## padamchen

kankan326 said:


> The word of "concentration camp" was created and used by western media. We call them reeducation schools. But you guys chose to believe west narrative. In my post I said they were for teaching skills and language. If this is genocide, we are all in genocide.



But even if your motives and methods are humane, you still have to consider outside opinion.

Canada has passed a resolution against you in their Parliament in recent news.

This may or may not be a precursor to sanctions.

How does China plan to react or tackle this?

Cheers, Doc


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## S10

Everything the West accuses China of doing, they've already done it themselves. It's like they're projecting their own sins on to us mentally.

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## S10

When you suddenly have only 2 kids rather than 5, the birthrate will drop drastically. This is the first time birth planning has been introduced to Xinjiang. The rest of the Chinese population has been living with it for over 40 years. I don't see you screaming bloody genocide for us.

On top of that, the employment rate and economy are rapidly improving thanks to security measures in place since 2014. When poverty rate drops, so does birth rate in any place.

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## redtom

Titanium100 said:


> Your thread is suffering from schizophrenia since you are speaking in double tongues. I already stated I don't believe in the existence of the camps myself but what I take issues with is this thread's existence. It seems like you are speaking in double tongues.
> 
> And the tone in this thread is extremely Muslim hostile especially the first post in this thread. This thread is openly calling for genocide


We commonly call it a vocational training center. Every city in China has it.Labour departments recommend jobs for the unemployed and train them in simple skills. It is open to all adults.

The difference between Xinjiang and other provinces, I think, is that other provinces don't need security because no one is going to attack the training center.Terrorism will never allow these people to have jobs, so they cannot train new terrorists.

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## kankan326

padamchen said:


> But even if your motives and methods are humane, you still have to consider outside opinion.
> 
> Canada has passed a resolution against you in their Parliament in recent news.
> 
> This may or may not be a precursor to sanctions.
> 
> How does China plan to react or tackle this?
> 
> Cheers, Doc


China is aimed by anglo countries because China is a threat to their superiority. They must find some excuses to contain China. If there is no one, fabricate one. Just like #21 said, they are good at lying. No need to overreact to the farces

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## padamchen

kankan326 said:


> China is aimed by anglo countries because China is a threat to their superiority. They must find some excuses to contain China. If there is no one, fabricate one. Just like #21 said, they are good at lying. No need to overreact to the farces



But they can hurt you economically.

A China without a market for what it produces is a shackled China.

Cheers, Doc


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## hualushui

*The fertility rate in Beijing is declining because it is a genocide of the Han Chinese in Beijing    *


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## kankan326

padamchen said:


> But they can hurt you economically.
> 
> A China without a market for what it produces is a shackled China.
> 
> Cheers, Doc


Firstly hurt is inevitable. China would still get hurt by them even sitting there doing nothing. They are good at creating problems from air. Secondly China will survive because Chinese people are smart and industrious. As #21 said, wealth is created by labour, not talks, let alone lies.

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## hualushui

********
The zombie pried the head of the anti-China clown and walked away disappointedly. But the *d**ung beetle *screamed excitedly


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## Telescopic Sight

GumNaam said:


> we already have concentration camps here, they are called indian reservations & fema camps.



Do you realize who the OP is talking about imprisoning in concentration camps?

Are you really supporting mass incarceration of Muslims just because they are Muslims?


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## GumNaam

Telescopic Sight said:


> Do you realize who the OP is talking about imprisoning in concentration camps?
> 
> Are you really supporting mass incarceration of Muslims just because they are Muslims?


First of all, I have my native country that I can always go to. Secondly, I do NOT believe that the Chinese are "incarcerating muslims in concentration camps" and I can speak with authority cuz Xinjiang, China is the 2nd most popular vacationing spot for Pakistanis after Azarbaijan and my relatives go their almost every year and come back laughing at the western media brain farts. And thirdly, speaking of western media brain farts, I'm still waiting to see those infamous Iraqi WMDs that posed and imminent danger to all of europe.

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## crankthatskunk

Akasa said:


> This post is just another example of whataboutism, not to mention that the circumstances in which the Western & Chinese concentration camps were built are entirely different.
> 
> You cannot seriously compare public health restrictions to combat a global pandemic - of which "concentration camps" is NOT a part - to China interning an entire swath of their population based on ethnicity and religion due to so-called "terrorism".
> 
> China's leaders will face their maker when the military forces of democratic nations finally force an unconditional surrender in Beijing.



Give it a rest mate. The term "Concentration Camps" came from where!!

So chill and stop supporting those who have made people slaves for centuries, put them in chains, ferry them around the world to work as enslaved labour. 

They invented the term "Discover" for the lands which were already populated by humans. 
The locals were treated like non-humans and in most cases genocides were carried on grand scales. 
The practice was not limited to one place, its spread around the world in many continents. 

They gave the "conquered" the Bibles and introduced them to "saviour Jesus". 
Unfortunately, that Saviour couldn't save the poor people from enslavement and grand scale murder by these criminals.

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## AUz

Another clear example of genocidal policies against Uigyur people by China. *This makes it absolutely unquestionable. Such utter collapse of birth rates within 2 years can not be natural or due to "industrialization".....If so, please post Beijing's history of birth rates since 1970's and show me such collapse? Guess what, it never happened.*

Uygur fertility rate was already normal, not high like 7 kids per woman etc. Having a normal fertility rate self-destruct like that? It can only happen by intentional destruction and oppression against a people....which China is doing and Chinese on this forum defend because lets be honest: They couldn't give two f*cks about Uygyur folks.

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## Muhammed45

What a meangless thread. 

China has had one Child policy for years now. Not a new phenomenon. The figure shows that Xinjiang hasnt been following the state policy ironically.


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## GumNaam

crankthatskunk said:


> Give it a rest mate. The term "Concentration Camps" came from where!!
> 
> So chill and stop supporting those who have made people slaves for centuries, put them in chains, ferry them around the world to work as enslaved labour.
> 
> They invented the term "Discover" for the lands which were already populated by humans.
> The locals were treated like non-humans and in most cases genocides were carried on grand scales.
> The practice was not limited to one place, its spread around the world in many continents.
> 
> They gave the "conquered" the Bibles and introduced them to "saviour Jesus".
> Unfortunately, that Saviour couldn't save the poor people from enslavement and grand scale murder by these criminals.


frankly this is all a good sign. let's face it...then whining about these so called "concentration camps" is indicative of the fact that all of the western economic & military coercion to subdue China have all failed & fallen flat on their faces so they now have to resort to cheap little shinanigans like pulling out fake stories from their arses as if anyone gives two turds from modi's bunghole about it.

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## Sharma Ji

hmm, interesting

@padamchen

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## S10

AUz said:


> Another clear example of genocidal policies against Uigyur people by China. *This makes it absolutely unquestionable. Such utter collapse of birth rates within 2 years can not be natural or due to "industrialization".....If so, please post Beijing's history of birth rates since 1970's and show me such collapse? Guess what, it never happened.*
> 
> Uygur fertility rate was already normal, not high like 7 kids per woman etc. Having a normal fertility rate self-destruct like that? It can only happen by intentional destruction and oppression against a people....which China is doing and Chinese on this forum defend because lets be honest: They couldn't give two f*cks about Uygyur folks.


Xinjiang Uyghur population in 1953 - 3.6 million
Xinjiang Uyghur population in 2018 - 12.8 million

The "genocide" is about as real as the existence of your brain cells. I'll tell you who I don't give two fucks about.

YOU


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## beijingwalker

Uighur girl talks about why Uighur families tend to have many children, she has 2 younger sisters and 1 younger brother. Most Chinese families only have one child, but many Uighur families tend to have 4 or 5 children, cause the parents don't want to feel lonely when they get old.


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## beijingwalker

Chinese can't get on Youtube? This teenage girl receives Youtube silver medal award for her channel

This popular teenager Xinjiang Urumqi Uighur youtuber and social media influencer girl received the Silver Award from Youtube to honor her for building up the number of her followers to over 100,000 in just one year on her Youtube channel, she is so happy for being recognized by overseas social media channels.

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## striver44

S10 said:


> Xinjiang Uyghur population in 1953 - 3.6 million
> Xinjiang Uyghur population in 2018 - 12.8 million
> 
> The "genocide" is about as real as the existence of your brain cells. I'll tell you who I don't give two fucks about.
> 
> YOU


we're talking about new births, this 12.8 million or so population is the byproduct of the past, due to forced infertilization the number will drop significantly in the future.


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## Muhammed45

@moderators

With due respects, are we allowed to open threads merely Based on Twitter accounts while attempting to troll and spread anti state propaganda?


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> we're talking about new births, this 12.8 million or so population is the byproduct of the past, due to forced infertilization the number will drop significantly in the future.


Why Han Chinese have much lower birth rate?


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Why Han Chinese have much lower birth rate?


duhh, because your commie leaders forced them to abort their kids not so long time ago.


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang population growth best answers Western smear campaign on Uygurs*
Global Times Published: 2020/9/4 15:51:45








Recently, an anti-China pseudo-scholar from Germany named Adrian Zenz (who calls himself Zheng Guoen in Chinese) has published a paper titled "Sterilizations, IUDs, and Coercive Birth Prevention: The CCP's Campaign to Suppress Uyghur Birth Rates in Xinjiang." The paper cites false statistics and highly misleading sources, drawing a ridiculous conclusion that ethnic minorities in the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region are under the threat of "genocide." However, his analysis and conclusion are neither in line with scientific research standards nor academic norms.

According to official statistics, the overall population in Xinjiang continued to grow steadily from 2010 to 2018. During this period, the population of permanent residents increased by 13.99 percent, among which the Uygur population increased by 25.04 percent, and the Han population 2.0 percent. Clearly, the growth rate of the Uygur population is nearly twice that of the overall residents and is way higher than that of the Han population. The Uygur population has increased by more than 2.5 million people in merely eight years. What kind of "genocide" is this? Zenz, with his anti-China stance, fabricated his conclusion without any basis.

Nobody knows Xinjiang better than the local Chinese citizens. At present, the people's livelihood in Xinjiang has greatly improved. Citizens there now live in peace and tranquility. And people of all ethnic groups are as united as pomegranate seeds.

In the recent outbreak of the coronavirus epidemic in Xinjiang, the government has, as always, put humanity as the top priority. The government took quick and appropriate actions, providing nucleic acid tests and professional treatments free of charge. Thanks to such comprehensive efforts, China has put an end to the spread of coronavirus in Xinjiang with no deaths. Till September 4, there has been no infection for 17 consecutive days in Xinjiang and the whole of society is back to normal.







The Chinese government shows the world with its real actions that the human rights that matter the most are "the right to life" and "the right to health." Therefore, it is ridiculous to turn a blind eye to the facts and use population issues as a new lever to smear China, especially under such special circumstances when people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang are united against the epidemic.

Some Western pseudo-scholars pursue double standards on human rights. But the truth is that their accusations related to nationality, religion and human rights have never been the real situation in Xinjiang. Now that the pandemic continues to spread in the West, Western countries had better spend more energy caring for their own citizens as well.

As a Uygur proverb goes, "The camel marches while the dog keeps on barking." Lies and slanders will not stop China's development. Western radical forces will not stop China's development. Nothing will. We have faith that people of all ethnic groups will continue to follow the Party and stay united. The best response to those attacking China and its Xinjiang policy is Xinjiang's stability, prosperity and harmonious development.





__





Xinjiang population growth best answers Western smear campaign on Uygurs - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn


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## striver44

@moderators, this is not just twitter accounts but based on official chinese statistics


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## padamchen

Sharma Ji said:


> hmm, interesting
> 
> @padamchen



Very.

@xeuss @jamahir

Cheers, Doc


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## beijingwalker

Birth rate is down in China, it's not news. it's sign that China is posed to join developed countries with high income and lower birth rate, it's common situation around the world.

*Lies debunked about Xinjiang birth control*


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Why Han Chinese have much lower birth rate?


I've already answered


----------



## beijingwalker

Uighurs are among the fastest growing populations in China.



新疆建设兵团汉族人口在实行独生子女政策十几年后改为允许生二胎，但是由于形成了“生育爬蚤心态”，“十五”时期，新疆建设兵团妇女总和生育率稳定在1.0左右（新疆城市汉族可能比这还低），而新疆少数民族妇女总和生育率仍在“三孩”以上。新疆目前汉族人口为37.52%，汉族新生儿比例为18%。
根据《2015新疆统计年鉴》所供数据，2014年新疆总出生635,687人，汉族出生92,804人，汉族出生人口占比14.6%，这意味着少数民族出生人口比例突破85%。
Han family in Xinjiang averagely has one child each family and Uighur family averagely has over 3 children. in 2014, Xinjiang had 635,687 new borns, 14.6% were Han Chinese, 85% were minorities, mainly Uighurs.


striver44 said:


> I've already answered


So you can accuse China for persecuting Han Chinese way worse they she does to Uighurs.


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Han family in Xinjiang averagely has one child each family and Uighur family averagely has over 3 children.* in 2014*, Xinjiang had 635,687 new borns, 14.6% were Han Chinese, 85% were minorities, mainly Uighurs.


yes, correcto my boy. in 2014. *the sharp drop in birth are registered since 2017*, at the time when western media are reporting about the mass incarceration and strerliization of Uyghur muslims.


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## beijingwalker

The reality on the ground

Why Uighur families have so many children? Her mother didn't give up after having 3 daughters, in the end it paid off and she got a boy.

She says it's just a tradition that Uighurs like to have big families so people can take care of each other, she feels sorry for people from only child families (Han families), saying there's no company when growing up and no siblings care and tend you when you are sick. 








striver44 said:


> yes, correcto my boy. in 2014. *the sharp drop in birth are registered since 2017*, at the time when western media are reporting about the mass incarceration and strerliization of Uyghur muslims.


China had the worst birth rate decline in the whole history last year, you can claim China is targeting Han families and persecuting them.








Number of newborns registered in China drops 15% amid population decline fears


The number of newborns registered with the government in China dropped almost 15% last year, amid widespread concern over falling birthrates in the world's most populous country.




edition.cnn.com


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## striver44

AUz said:


> Another clear example of genocidal policies against Uigyur people by China. *This makes it absolutely unquestionable. Such utter collapse of birth rates within 2 years can not be natural or due to "industrialization".....If so, please post Beijing's history of birth rates since 1970's and show me such collapse? Guess what, it never happened.*
> 
> Uygur fertility rate was already normal, not high like 7 kids per woman etc. Having a normal fertility rate self-destruct like that? It can only happen by intentional destruction and oppression against a people....which China is doing and Chinese on this forum defend because lets be honest: They couldn't give two f*cks about Uygyur folks.


I hope there are more honest Pakistani like you, I mean it man.


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## Sharma Ji

padamchen said:


> Very.
> 
> @xeuss @jamahir
> 
> Cheers, Doc


yup, look how happy they are.



beijingwalker said:


>

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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> China had the worst birth rate decline in the whole history last year, you can claim China is targeting Han families and persecuting them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Number of newborns registered in China drops 15% amid population decline fears
> 
> 
> The number of newborns registered with the government in China dropped almost 15% last year, amid widespread concern over falling birthrates in the world's most populous country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com


china has a one child policy since like the 70s, the Uyghur sharp drop from 2017 to now, could only be explained by one thing: *forced sterilization by the state.

it practically halved by just two (two f*cking years)*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364530097701576706

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364562627519672320


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## beijingwalker

China actually has preferential policies to ethnic minorities, they are not subject to China's dacades long one child policy, you can call it re


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## striver44

^^^^ 
that's bullcr*p and you all knows that. numbers and statistics don't lie.


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## beijingwalker

birth control, it's a policy only covered Han Chinese, minorities were exempt from this policy, so what kind of discrimination is it? Discrimination against Han Chinese?
You almost never see families having these many children among Han families.

A mother with her 4 chilren ( One child policy didn't apply to ethnic minorities in China ) are on a Urumqi subway train and the youngest kid drops some naan crumbs on the train floor, the mother takes time carefully cleaning the floor and in the end the oldest kid learns from her mother and wipes the seats clean from naan crumbs. Power of a good example especially from parents.

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## jamahir

padamchen said:


> Very.
> 
> @xeuss @jamahir
> 
> Cheers, Doc



My view about this thing about China is summed up by the below post :


Muhammed45 said:


> What a meangless thread.
> 
> China has had one Child policy for years now. Not a new phenomenon. The figure shows that Xinjiang hasnt been following the state policy ironically.



---

I wish that India too introduces a family planning policy which is stricter. No male child for the next 20 years. And send all those louts in India to Siberia to do minerals mining. Or to Ladakh. Or to Afghanistan.

India needs disciplined, sensitive and sensible males who should form the vanguard to actually develop the country.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> ^^^^
> that's bullcr*p and you all knows that. numbers and statistics don't lie.


China's overall birth rate dropped 15% in recent years, it's a process all developed countries experience when they were moving up.


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## beijingwalker

Time to celebrate gaining over 1,000,000 suscribers on the Chinese social media, she made it in less than 2 years, she is just a high school student.


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## striver44

you must see this from context, china (or the CCP) to be exact decided to cut birth rate in the 70s because han chinese are making babies like toads, combine that with the economic difficulties of china in the 70s, then we have the now infamous ONE CHILD POLICY.

the Uyghur sterilization appears in a time when china is having a booming economy that could support huge birth rates, there's only one explanation on this: The Han is now screwed demographically from the ONE CHILD POLICY and they view if the other ethnics birth rate are not forcefully cut down, then they're afraid that one day, the Uyghur will outnumber them.

this is consistent if you see the CCP bots at PDF constantly taunting how White Americans will someday be replaced with Mexicans and Afros. it's their psyche.

and one more thing, the han chinese women in the 70s are not sterilized like the uyghurs now.


beijingwalker said:


> China's overall birth rate dropped 15% in recent years, it's a process all *developed* countries experience when they were moving up.


yes, 40+ years of one child policy in Han dominated areas and its only dropped a bit.

*2 years of "development" in Xinjiang, and somehow the birth rate are plunging by half,* very nice logic


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## Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8

well played China....seriously well played


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## beijingwalker

I guess if this guy can start random Xinjiang threads rather than merging all Xinjiang posts into one, we can do it as well.


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## striver44

^^^^
ask your mods why are they so afraid of me posting in Xinjiang thread..???


I must be very dangerous


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> ^^^^
> ask your mods why are they so afraid of me posting in Xinjiang thread..???
> 
> 
> I must be very dangerous


I just got an one week ban last week, actually I get banned about once every two weeks... I hope I won't get banned again if I start Xinjiang threads independengtly from that mega Xinjiang thread.


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> I just got an one week ban last week, actually I get banned about once every two weeks... I hope I won't get banned again if I start Xinjiang threads independengtly from that mega Xinjiang thread.


well I believe we both are in open competition on ban rates per month right now.


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> well I believe we both are in open competition on ban rates per month right now.


I always get banned from one particular mod, obvious some Mod doesn't like me here.


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## striver44

I'm not trying to boast that I have 130 IQ, but let's say you guys reading this have 1/3 of mine. than it's very easy to understand that these birth rates are not normal.

*RED: XINJIANG*
*BLACK: AVERAGE CHINA"S BIRTH RATE*






halved by two years??? what are this nation into??


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> I always get banned from one particular mod, obvious some Mod doesn't like me here.


me too.


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> I'm not trying to boast that I have 130 IQ, but let's say you guys reading this have 1/3 of mine. than it's very easy to understand that these birth rates are not normal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> halved by two years??? what are this nation into??


Where is your source from? Everyone can make a chart.


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Where is your source from? Everyone can make a chart.


what if I tell you it's from chinese official statistics??



10 years of birthrate in Xinjiang



am sure you've read this thread, don't you??

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364562627519672320


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> what if I tell you it's from chinese official statistics??
> 
> 
> 
> 10 years of birthrate in Xinjiang
> 
> 
> 
> am sure you've read this thread, don't you??


I didn't find the chart from the link this twitter provided, can you show me ? and you know Han Chinese account for around half of the Xinjiang population, do you?


Let's compare the population growth within Xinjiang province by ethnicity from the Chinese official statistics



新疆建设兵团汉族人口在实行独生子女政策十几年后改为允许生二胎，但是由于形成了“生育爬蚤心态”，“十五”时期，新疆建设兵团妇女总和生育率稳定在1.0左右（新疆城市汉族可能比这还低），而新疆少数民族妇女总和生育率仍在“三孩”以上。新疆目前汉族人口为37.52%，汉族新生儿比例为18%。
根据《2015新疆统计年鉴》所供数据，2014年新疆总出生635,687人，汉族出生92,804人，汉族出生人口占比14.6%，这意味着少数民族出生人口比例突破85%。
Han family in Xinjiang averagely has one child each family and Uighur family averagely has over 3 children. in 2014, Xinjiang had 635,687 new borns, 14.6% were Han Chinese, 85% were minorities, mainly Uighurs.


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> *and you know Han Chinese account for around half of the Xinjiang population, do you?*


that's right kiddie

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364562627519672320



> The Uyghur birth rate has probably dropped even more than 50%, because Han make up almost half of Xinjiang's population and their birth rate likely hasn't dropped as much. If the XJ Han birth rate is similar to the national average, the Ughur birthrate went from roughly 20 to 7!


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> that's right kiddie
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364562627519672320


This source states a different story, besides, it's not uncommon to see Uighurs have huge families which never happens to Han families. Uighurs enjoy preferential policy is a hard fact.

新疆建设兵团汉族人口在实行独生子女政策十几年后改为允许生二胎，但是由于形成了“生育爬蚤心态”，“十五”时期，新疆建设兵团妇女总和生育率稳定在1.0左右（新疆城市汉族可能比这还低），而新疆少数民族妇女总和生育率仍在“三孩”以上。新疆目前汉族人口为37.52%，汉族新生儿比例为18%。
根据《2015新疆统计年鉴》所供数据，2014年新疆总出生635,687人，汉族出生92,804人，汉族出生人口占比14.6%，这意味着少数民族出生人口比例突破85%。
Han family in Xinjiang averagely has one child each family and Uighur family averagely has over 3 children. in 2014, Xinjiang had 635,687 new borns, 14.6% were Han Chinese, 85% were minorities, mainly Uighurs.


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Han family in Xinjiang averagely has one child each family and Uighur family averagely has over 3 children. *in 2014, Xinjiang had 635,687 new borns, 14.6% were Han Chinese, 85% were minorities, mainly Uighurs.*


exactly, 2014

do you know when was the uyghur issue was blown out by western media??? around 2017

here the drop from 2017-2019

*RED : XINJIANG
BLUE : OTHER PROVINCE
BLACK : CHINA'S AVERAGE*


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## padamchen

Sharma Ji said:


> yup, look how happy they are.



Yes totally. That's the joy of emancipated women, seen around the world.
















See how happy they are around the world.

Bless our mothers and sisters.

@jamahir @xeuss @El Sidd @Imran Khan 

Cheers, Doc

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## kankan326

Wherever there is a genocide, there must be massive refugees. It's human nature. No one will give up their last straw to survive. Xinjiang is a vast and barren region. It shares border with 8 countries. If millions of Uighurs decide to flee to other countries, Chinese government can never stop them. 

Many people say it's not possible to know if the genocide exists because Chinese government will do its best to hide all evidences. Actually if you change the way of thinking, it's very easy to find the truth. Because Chinese government can not control things beyong the border lines. There must be many indirect signs that would indicate a genocide happened if there is one. Go investigate Xingjiang's neighbour countries. For example, did Pakistanis find the number of Uighurs in their country suddenly surged?

If there are no refugees, I can 100% sure there is no genocide. Uighurs used their feet to tell you westerners are fabricating lies to smear China.


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## beijingwalker

Here is the official report debunking the westerm media lie


新疆人口自然增长率急剧下降？揭穿抹黑新疆人口状况的五大谎言

2021-01-07 15:25:06 来源： 中国新闻社 
新疆大学官网日前刊载《人权保障语境下美国干涉新疆事务的探析——以新疆人口为视角的调查研究报告》(简称《报告》)，通过对新疆人口状况进行的事实梳理，揭穿德国反华学者郑国恩抹黑中国新疆人口状况的五大谎言。

《报告》称，近年来，美国一些政客多次以人权为由，通过援引一些反华学者的虚假研究报告，不断以其所谓的中国新疆、香港等问题为由，粗暴干涉中国内政。2020年6月，德国学者郑国恩在美国詹姆斯敦基金会发表的一篇名为《论中国在新疆强制计划生育和强制绝育计划》的研究报告中，充斥着大量罔顾事实、颠倒黑白的言论，贯穿着一系列言之不详、来历不明的信息数据。
一、新疆人口自然增长率急剧下降
郑国恩在其“研究报告”中称，“自2015年起，新疆的人口自然增长率急剧下降”。
然而，《报告》通过查阅中国国家统计局和新疆维吾尔自治区统计局公布的数据发现，2015年至2017年，新疆的人口自然增长率基本稳定在11‰以上。尽管2018年新疆的人口自然增长率下降至6.13‰，但从中国人口自然增长率的平均水平来看，新疆地区的人口自然增长率仍处在较高水平，并不存在郑国恩所言的“急剧下降”。
二、少数民族地区2018年人口自然增长率降至4.06‰
郑国恩称，2018年新疆“所有少数民族地区均降至4.06‰，其中喀什与和田地区的增长率为2.58‰”。
《报告》指出，据新疆维吾尔自治区统计局公布的数据，2018年新疆南疆人口自然增长率分别为克孜勒苏柯尔克孜自治州11.45‰、喀什地区6.93‰、阿克苏地区5.67‰、和田地区2.96‰。除和田外，其余3地州2018年人口自然增长率均高于郑国恩“研究报告”中的“4.06‰”。另外，喀什、和田地区的人口自然增长率也与郑国恩谎称的“2.58‰”这一数值不相符合。
三、2018年和田某地汉族人口增长率比维吾尔族的人口增长率高出近8倍
《报告》调查，2010-2018年，新疆年末总人口增长13.99%。少数民族人口增长22.14%，其中维吾尔族人口增长25.04%。同一时期，汉族人口增长2.0%。综上，维吾尔族人口的增幅不仅高于新疆人口的增幅，也高于少数民族人口的增幅，更明显高于汉族人口的增幅。
四、所有少数民族县的人口净增长率为-0.25‰
郑国恩在其“研究报告”中称，“喀什地区与和田地区的人口净增长率低，仅有0.22‰，所有少数民族县的人口净增长率为-0.25‰，因而从总人口的增加可以估计多数地区的汉族的人口净增长率上升了7.42‰”。
《报告》通过查阅官方数字发现，无论是从南疆四地州28个县的人口自然增长率的均值(4.80‰)来看，还是分别从四地州所辖下县的人口自然增长率的均值分析，都无法得出郑国恩所言的“所有少数民族县的人口净增长率为-0.25‰”。就喀什地区与和田地区的事实情况来看，也与郑国恩所谓的“喀什地区与和田地区的人口净增长率低，仅有0.22‰”大相径庭。
五、2020年，其中一个维吾尔族地区(克孜勒苏柯尔克孜自治州)设定了前所未有的近乎为零的人口增长目标
《报告》指出，据克孜勒苏柯尔克孜自治州卫健委预算报告显示，“人口自然增长率”设定的是1.05%。当%转化为‰时，其人口自然增长率就应是10.5‰。所以，郑国恩所言“每千人中仅新增1.05人”这一论述，实则是以混淆人口增长计量单位的手法来编造谎言。
《报告》表示，郑国恩采用恣意篡改数据、混淆计量单位、模糊概念和来源等写作方法，使得“研究报告”的“谎言”看起来极具真实性。另外，郑国恩谈到的政府文件不仅没有标明是何文件、文件出处，更缺乏对文件可靠性和真实性的基本介绍，甚至在全文中也没有再对有关政府文件进行过进一步的阐述，这无疑使得其整个研究进行的所谓“系统分析”的源头已经模糊不清、来路不明，甚至不知是否是为支撑自己的论点而编造的数据来源。



https://www.zjwx.gov.cn/art/2021/1/7/art_1673574_58868343.html#:~:text=%E3%80%8A%E6%8A%A5%E5%91%8A%E3%80%8B%E8%B0%83%E6%9F%A5%EF%BC%8C2010%2D,%E4%BA%8E%E6%B1%89%E6%97%8F%E4%BA%BA%E5%8F%A3%E7%9A%84%E5%A2%9E%E5%B9%85%E3%80%82


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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Here is the official report debunking the westerm media lie
> 
> 
> 新疆人口自然增长率急剧下降？揭穿抹黑新疆人口状况的五大谎言
> 
> 2021-01-07 15:25:06 来源： 中国新闻社
> 新疆大学官网日前刊载《人权保障语境下美国干涉新疆事务的探析——以新疆人口为视角的调查研究报告》(简称《报告》)，通过对新疆人口状况进行的事实梳理，揭穿德国反华学者郑国恩抹黑中国新疆人口状况的五大谎言。
> 
> 《报告》称，近年来，美国一些政客多次以人权为由，通过援引一些反华学者的虚假研究报告，不断以其所谓的中国新疆、香港等问题为由，粗暴干涉中国内政。2020年6月，德国学者郑国恩在美国詹姆斯敦基金会发表的一篇名为《论中国在新疆强制计划生育和强制绝育计划》的研究报告中，充斥着大量罔顾事实、颠倒黑白的言论，贯穿着一系列言之不详、来历不明的信息数据。
> 一、新疆人口自然增长率急剧下降
> 郑国恩在其“研究报告”中称，“自2015年起，新疆的人口自然增长率急剧下降”。
> 然而，《报告》通过查阅中国国家统计局和新疆维吾尔自治区统计局公布的数据发现，2015年至2017年，新疆的人口自然增长率基本稳定在11‰以上。尽管2018年新疆的人口自然增长率下降至6.13‰，但从中国人口自然增长率的平均水平来看，新疆地区的人口自然增长率仍处在较高水平，并不存在郑国恩所言的“急剧下降”。
> 二、少数民族地区2018年人口自然增长率降至4.06‰
> 郑国恩称，2018年新疆“所有少数民族地区均降至4.06‰，其中喀什与和田地区的增长率为2.58‰”。
> 《报告》指出，据新疆维吾尔自治区统计局公布的数据，2018年新疆南疆人口自然增长率分别为克孜勒苏柯尔克孜自治州11.45‰、喀什地区6.93‰、阿克苏地区5.67‰、和田地区2.96‰。除和田外，其余3地州2018年人口自然增长率均高于郑国恩“研究报告”中的“4.06‰”。另外，喀什、和田地区的人口自然增长率也与郑国恩谎称的“2.58‰”这一数值不相符合。
> 三、2018年和田某地汉族人口增长率比维吾尔族的人口增长率高出近8倍
> 《报告》调查，2010-2018年，新疆年末总人口增长13.99%。少数民族人口增长22.14%，其中维吾尔族人口增长25.04%。同一时期，汉族人口增长2.0%。综上，维吾尔族人口的增幅不仅高于新疆人口的增幅，也高于少数民族人口的增幅，更明显高于汉族人口的增幅。
> 四、所有少数民族县的人口净增长率为-0.25‰
> 郑国恩在其“研究报告”中称，“喀什地区与和田地区的人口净增长率低，仅有0.22‰，所有少数民族县的人口净增长率为-0.25‰，因而从总人口的增加可以估计多数地区的汉族的人口净增长率上升了7.42‰”。
> 《报告》通过查阅官方数字发现，无论是从南疆四地州28个县的人口自然增长率的均值(4.80‰)来看，还是分别从四地州所辖下县的人口自然增长率的均值分析，都无法得出郑国恩所言的“所有少数民族县的人口净增长率为-0.25‰”。就喀什地区与和田地区的事实情况来看，也与郑国恩所谓的“喀什地区与和田地区的人口净增长率低，仅有0.22‰”大相径庭。
> 五、2020年，其中一个维吾尔族地区(克孜勒苏柯尔克孜自治州)设定了前所未有的近乎为零的人口增长目标
> 《报告》指出，据克孜勒苏柯尔克孜自治州卫健委预算报告显示，“人口自然增长率”设定的是1.05%。当%转化为‰时，其人口自然增长率就应是10.5‰。所以，郑国恩所言“每千人中仅新增1.05人”这一论述，实则是以混淆人口增长计量单位的手法来编造谎言。
> 《报告》表示，郑国恩采用恣意篡改数据、混淆计量单位、模糊概念和来源等写作方法，使得“研究报告”的“谎言”看起来极具真实性。另外，郑国恩谈到的政府文件不仅没有标明是何文件、文件出处，更缺乏对文件可靠性和真实性的基本介绍，甚至在全文中也没有再对有关政府文件进行过进一步的阐述，这无疑使得其整个研究进行的所谓“系统分析”的源头已经模糊不清、来路不明，甚至不知是否是为支撑自己的论点而编造的数据来源。
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.zjwx.gov.cn/art/2021/1/7/art_1673574_58868343.html#:~:text=%E3%80%8A%E6%8A%A5%E5%91%8A%E3%80%8B%E8%B0%83%E6%9F%A5%EF%BC%8C2010%2D,%E4%BA%8E%E6%B1%89%E6%97%8F%E4%BA%BA%E5%8F%A3%E7%9A%84%E5%A2%9E%E5%B9%85%E3%80%82


and here's china national statistics on which the graph are based.   



http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/2020/indexeh.htm


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## beijingwalker

The so-called "genocide" in Xinjiang is another lie concocted by anti-China forces. According to official figures, from 2010 to 2018, the Uygur population in Xinjiang rose from 10.17 million to 12.72 million, an increase of 25 percent, higher than the growth rate of 22 percent for all ethnic minorities in Xinjiang and much higher than that of the Han population, which is 2 percent.





__





Xinhua Commentary: Lies over Xinjiang won't stop China's progress


ampcopy Provided by Xinhua BEIJING Feb 24 Xinhua -- Some anti-China forces in the West have fabricated and mongered a string of lies about China Xinjiang




www.bignewsnetwork.com




So Uighurs' population growth rate from 2010-2018 was 25%, and Han people's growth was 2% during the same period of time.


This is indeed a big problem, if Han Chinese growth rate keeps this low, China would be running out of people in the future....


----------



## striver44

the so called "everybody in china enjoys the same one child policy is a myth". in the 70s it's mainly because china doesn't have the pocket to feed han chinese which were reproducing like toads, in the 2020s it's purely racial.

from 2010-2018 it only grows by 2 million correct, but just to remind you people that the effect on todays forced sterilization on xinjiang will be felt 2-4 decades from now.

anyway just wondering why only boast the population growth from 2010-2018, what happened to 2017-now???


----------



## S10

striver44 said:


> we're talking about new births, this 12.8 million or so population is the byproduct of the past, due to forced infertilization the number will drop significantly in the future.


Forced infertilization? Maybe you should stop inventing non-sense. The one-child policy had been implemented in China for over 40 years, and Uyghurs were exempt until recently. I didn't see you screaming about bloody genocide when most of China had to follow that policy previously. It's time that the law gets applied equally.

The real question is, are you stupid or really stupid?


----------



## striver44

S10 said:


> Forced infertilization? Maybe you should stop inventing non-sense. The one-child policy had been implemented in China for over 40 years, and it was only targeted at Hans until recently. I didn't see you screaming about bloody genocide when most of China had to follow that policy previously.
> 
> Are you stupid or really stupid?


yes exactly* 40+ years *on Han chinese one child policy and the graph is flat

*2 years* of "something happening in Xinjiang camps" and suddenly the birth rate drops to the abyss.

*RED : XINJIANG
BLUE : OTHER PROVINCE
BLACK : CHINA'S AVERAGE*






S10 said:


> The real question is, are you stupid or really stupid?


I have 130 IQ


----------



## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> the so called "everybody in china enjoys the same one child policy is a myth". in the 70s it's mainly because china doesn't have the pocket to feed han chinese which were reproducing like toads, in the 2020s it's purely racial.
> 
> from 2010-2018 it only grows by 2 million correct, but just to remind you people that the effect on todays forced sterilization on xinjiang will be felt 2-4 decades from now.
> 
> anyway just wondering why only boast the population growth from 2010-2018, what happened to 2017-now???


Uighurs population growth is over 10 times higher than Hans, I don't think the rate will drop anywhere close to Hans' rate, Uighur do enjoy preferential policies for decades, this is a hard fact.


----------



## Viet

beijingwalker said:


> Time to celebrate gaining over 1,000,000 suscribers on the Chinese social media, she made it in less than 2 years, she is just a high school student.


Youtube?
Is that not illegal in China?
If she wears less she will attract 10 million male subscribers in no time.
He he


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## surya kiran

Really heartening to see Pakistanis finally not showing up to support Muslims. After all iron brother/strategic ally more important than fellow Muslims in China. If only, this policy were applied across.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## padamchen

jamahir said:


> My view about this thing about China is summed up by the below post :
> 
> I wish that India too introduces a family planning policy which is stricter. No male child for the next 20 years. And send all those louts in India to Siberia to do minerals mining. Or to Ladakh. Or to Afghanistan.
> 
> India needs disciplined, sensitive and sensible males who should form the vanguard to actually develop the country.



Yes, but the Xinjiang fall is twice that of the rest of the mainland.

I have provided a glimpse in my earlier post about how India too has taken steps in her own way.

Cheers, Doc


----------



## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> Uighurs population growth is over 10 times higher than Hans, I don't think the rate will drop anywhere close to Hans' rate, Uighur do enjoy preferential policies for decades, this is a hard fact.


here's what hard fact looks like
*RED : XINJIANG
BLUE : OTHER PROVINCE
BLACK : CHINA'S AVERAGE*


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## beijingwalker

striver44 said:


> here's what hard fact looks like
> *RED : XINJIANG
> BLUE : OTHER PROVINCE
> BLACK : CHINA'S AVERAGE*


I can't find this chart from the link that twitter account posted, can you find it? exactly this chart I mean. and Uighur do enjoy preferential policies for decades, this is a hard fact even shown from this dubious chart.


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## beijingwalker

Viet said:


> Youtube?
> Is that not illegal in China?
> If she wears less she will attract 10 million male subscribers in no time.
> He he


It's not illegel, it's blocked but people can easily get around the blocking if they want to , and the government couldn't care less, because the government never said it's illegal to view those sites, the government discourages people from viewing them by blocking them, but that's it, one click and people can get around and access them.

tens of millions of Chinese get on youtube to watch Chinese dramas, cause on Chinese sites you have to pay to watch new dramas while on youbtube they are free, I watch some Chinese drama on youtube too.


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## jamahir

padamchen said:


> Yes totally. That's the joy of emancipated women, seen around the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how happy they are around the world.
> 
> Bless our mothers and sisters.
> 
> @jamahir @xeuss @El Sidd @Imran Khan
> 
> Cheers, Doc



In that bunch there are no truly emancipated women like Shehla Rashid, Arfa Sherwani, Rana Ayyub etc.



padamchen said:


> I have provided a glimpse in my earlier post about how India too has taken steps in her own way.
> 
> Cheers, Doc



What steps ? Can you please summarize ?


----------



## S10

striver44 said:


> yes exactly* 40+ years *on Han chinese one child policy and the graph is flat
> 
> *2 years* of "something happening in Xinjiang camps" and suddenly the birth rate drops to the abyss.
> 
> *RED : XINJIANG
> BLUE : OTHER PROVINCE
> BLACK : CHINA'S AVERAGE*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have 130 IQ


All you posted was some random Twitter graph claiming it was "official Chinese sources". Given your history of bullshit, here is an actual graph from an official source. It's funny how closing Islamic schools and enforcing family planning laws lead to a magical drop in births.









__





An Analysis Report on Population Change in Xinjiang - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn





Your IQ has to be in the single digits if you can't wrap your tiny head around it.


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## padamchen

surya kiran said:


> Really heartening to see Pakistanis finally not showing up to support Muslims. After all iron brother/strategic ally more important than fellow Muslims in China. If only, this policy were applied across.



I've been discussing the FATF and other issues peculiar to the Pakistan economy with the Pakistanis.

They are a street smart and hard nosed bunch. And know which way the cookie crumbles and which side of their bread is buttered.

You can be sure that there is intense push and pull going on balancing their two Iron Brothers who are at each others throats on this issue.

The hardcore fundamentalists will be kept in check by the deep state. 

After all, hardcore fundamentalists have needs too.

Yes there are downsides to leveraging your internal assets to keep the war machine against India going. Like the price they have paid and continue to pay internally. 

But they've managed to hold on in their own way, and looked at strictly academically, their trajectory over the past 7 decades versus that of ours could be a really interesting case study in nation building and running and war fighting. 

Cheers, Doc


----------



## padamchen

jamahir said:


> In that bunch there are no truly emancipated women like Shehla Rashid, Arfa Sherwani, Rana Ayyub etc.
> 
> What steps ? Can you please summarize ?



You would not know emancipation until you have a uterus and active ovaries of your own and happen to be born into a certain way of life.

Cheers, Doc


----------



## striver44

S10 said:


> All you posted was some random Twitter graph claiming it was "official Chinese sources". Given your history of bullshit, here is an actual graph from an official source. It's funny how closing Islamic schools and enforcing family planning laws lead to a magical drop in births.
> 
> View attachment 719882
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Analysis Report on Population Change in Xinjiang - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your IQ has to be in the single digits if you can't wrap your tiny head around it.


we are talking about birth rate lmao, not the total population, the drop in birth rate will be felt not now but 2-4 decades later when death surpasses newly born.


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## beijingwalker

Source：Statistical Bureau of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region


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## beijingwalker

Source：Statistical Bureau of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region

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## striver44

beijingwalker said:


> I can't find this chart from the link that twitter account posted, can you find it? exactly this chart I mean. and Uighur do enjoy preferential policies for decades, this is a hard fact even shown from this dubious chart.


lmao, this chart (he makes) is based from the data (from the chinese official data, the links he posted ) lmao.


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## jamahir

padamchen said:


> You would not know emancipation until you have a uterus and active ovaries of your own and happen to be born into a certain way of life.
> 
> Cheers, Doc



So Shehla, Arfa and Rana are not emancipated ?

Also, that 7th century ideology you keep railing against, it was under its laws that the below Indian Christian woman married an Indian Muslim because those laws bettered her socio-economic future in case of divorce :


> One wonders why a reference to the Islamic law was not made either by the minister or other experts. Married Muslim women, we find, are often on a higher and more secure footing than their counterparts from other religions. In fact, as a Christian marrying a Muslim, I chose to marry under the Muslim personal law, even over the seemingly modern Special Marriage Act, 1954, to better secure my economic rights. My mehr was a house in my name and my nikahnama includes necessary clauses to safeguard my and my children’s rights. My husband’s family members were witness to this document, which is registered and enforceable by law.


It goes on :


> When we examine marriage laws in their historic context, it is interesting to note that the universally accepted notion that marriages are contractual rather than sacramental originates in Muslim law, which was accepted by the French law only in the 1800s and incorporated into the English law in the 1850s and became part of codified Hindu law as late as 1955.





> The cornerstone of a Muslim marriage is consent, ejab-o-qubul (proposal and acceptance) and requires the bride to accept the marriage proposal on her own free will. This freedom to consent (or refuse), which was given to Muslim women 1,400 years ago, is still not available under Hindu law since sacramental rituals such as saptapadi and kanya dan (seven steps round the nuptial fire and gifting of the bride to the groom) still form essential ceremonies of a Hindu marriage. Even after the codification of Hindu law, the notion of consent is not built into the marriage ceremonies.


Please read the rest of the OP and the thread discussion.

What perversion of these laws happen among Indian Muslims, like Instant Triple Talaq, they are just that - perversions. The actual laws are quite progressive, whether about weddings or about property inheritance or other things.

But I want Muslims to meld Islamic laws into the natural successor : Modern Communism.


----------



## AUz

S10 said:


> Xinjiang Uyghur population in 1953 - 3.6 million
> Xinjiang Uyghur population in 2018 - 12.8 million
> 
> The "genocide" is about as real as the existence of your brain cells. I'll tell you who I don't give two fucks about.
> 
> YOU



Lmao idiot...we are talking about Chinese oppression post 2016. Why are you comparing Uygyur population from decades go? 

Btw...during Japanese invasion and rape of China...Chinese population still increased. Hmmm all the Chinese bitching about Japanese atrocities must be fake. Yeah?


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## surya kiran

padamchen said:


> Yes there are downsides to leveraging your internal assets to keep the war machine against India going. Like the price they have paid and continue to pay internally.



Thankfully we learnt quickly with the LTTE and stopped this tactic.

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## padamchen

surya kiran said:


> Thankfully we learnt quickly with the LTTE and stopped this tactic.



But we did it on our own dollar.

Not to make a dollar.

Your dad and mine bankrolled it.

Cheers, Doc


----------



## Team Blue

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Frankly speaking, that's true. But the capacity for any nuanced discussion about China's policy toward its Uighur population (and its minority populations in general) has been obliterated by Western propaganda.


I can agree with this. I think there's room for valid criticism but 99% of the time all I see is holier than thou rants about a second holocaust. It's ridiculous.


----------



## S10

AUz said:


> Lmao idiot...we are talking about Chinese oppression post 2016. Why are you comparing Uygyur population from decades go?
> 
> Btw...during Japanese invasion and rape of China...Chinese population still increased. Hmmm all the Chinese bitching about Japanese atrocities must be fake. Yeah?


Hey Jihadi reject, you do know that birth rates plummet after the economy takes off and family planning is enforced right? Guess what happened to Xinjiang after 2014? Oh that's right, the fastest-growing economy in China 5 years in a row and equal implementation of policy.

You wouldn't even qualify to be a suicide bomber with your brain cell count.


----------



## AUz

S10 said:


> Hey Jihadi reject, you do know that birth rates plummet after the economy takes off and family planning is enforced right? Guess what happened to Xinjiang after 2014? Oh that's right, the fastest-growing economy in China 5 years in a row and equal implementation of policy.
> 
> You wouldn't even qualify to be a suicide bomber with your brain cell count.





Little scrawny beta-male chink is talking a lot but provides no evidence. Yes, economic development decrease birth rates but *NOT* collapses it within one year. THAT's is the key difference. Again, please show me another example from China where economic development caused a region to drop its birth rate more than 50% within 1 year and that too, from a very low fertility base already (less than 3 kids per woman). Please show me another example from China of this?

Answer is simple: *You can not show that. *

We all know the genocidal policies and concentration camps the barbarian Chinese are running against Uygyurs.


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## Dungeness

Are the West selling "War on China" to public Now?

1990: The story of "*throwing babies*" all over media, then "*The First Gulf War*" started ;
1999: The story of "*Mass Graves*" all over media, then "*Bombing of Serbia*" started;
2003: The story of "*Weapon of Mass Destruction*" all over media , then "*Second Gulf War*" started;
2021: The story of "*Uyghur women Systematically Raped*" all over media, then "*War on China*" follows?

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## Akasa

There are multiple witnesses, testimonies, and independent investigations into the matter, all of which concluded that there is widespread systematic abuse within these concentration camps.

Please don't forget that even some of their own leaders were initially against the idea of incarcerating people en masse on the basis of ethnicity and religion.

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## zectech

*More men are raped in the US than women, figures on prison assaults reveal*









More men are raped in the US than women


In 2008, it was estimated 216,000 inmates were sexually assaulted while serving time in America, according to the Department of Justice figures.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Procedures also must be put in place to investigate allegations of *sexual assault* and improve care for victims.

Almost seven per cent of women said they had been sexually abused by a fellow inmate, while more men said they had been *assaulted by staff*. 

*Shockingly, more than 7 per cent of teenagers in juvenile detention said they had sexual contact with staff.

9.5 per cent* of those in *juvenile detention* said they had been the *victim of sexual abuse*.



Those in glass houses should not cast stones.

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Wow Wow:
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## Dungeness

Akasa said:


> There are multiple witnesses, testimonies, and independent investigations into the matter, all of which concluded that there is widespread systematic abuse within these concentration camps.
> 
> Please don't forget that even some of their own leaders were initially against the idea of incarcerating people en masse on the basis of ethnicity and religion.



You are sold!

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## Akasa

Dungeness said:


> You are sold!



What?


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## zectech

Dungeness said:


> You are sold!



The fact that anybody can travel to Xinjiang and interview the Uyghurs personally, and China invited Pompeo to visit Xinjiang. And the fact that most of the horror stories from separatist terrorists seeking to split Xinjiang off from China have been debunked. Their family members that are "missing" are living happy lives in China. These accusers are propaganda pieces similar to White Helmets, who were exposed as lying actors of foreign agenda. So it is easy to dismiss the whole venture as propaganda, especially the claim of systematic rape.

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## 8888888888888

It's all BS, China might was well decouple from those nations that claim this BS. China is rich enough already that it doesn't need those countries anymore.

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## Dungeness

zectech said:


> The fact that anybody can travel to Xinjiang and interview the Uyghurs personally, and China invited Pompeo to visit Xinjiang. And the fact that most of the horror stories from separatist terrorists seeking to split Xinjiang off from China have been debunked. Their family members that are "missing" are living happy lives in China. These accusers are propaganda pieces similar to White Helmets, who were exposed as lying actors of foreign agenda. So it is easy to dismiss the whole venture as propaganda, especially the claim of systematic rape.




It takes a ton of stupility to believe such story.

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## Clutch

Akasa said:


> There are multiple witnesses, testimonies, and independent investigations into the matter, all of which concluded that there is widespread systematic abuse within these concentration camps.
> 
> Please don't forget that even some of their own leaders were initially against the idea of incarcerating people en masse on the basis of ethnicity and religion.



You can bribe multiple people

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## TaiShang

Dungeness said:


> Are the West selling "War on China" to public Now?
> 
> 1990: The story of "*throwing babies*" all over media, then "*The First Gulf War*" started ;
> 1999: The story of "*Mass Graves*" all over media, then "*Bombing of Serbia*" started;
> 2003: The story of "*Weapon of Mass Destruction*" all over media , then "*Second Gulf War*" started;
> 2021: The story of "*Uyghur women Systematically Raped*" all over media, then "*War on China*" follows?



When the West was trying to bring down Assad in Syria, a crying girl used to grace fake news media, like CNN, arguing rape and torture by devilish Syrian Army. 

Then, it happens, the girl was the daughter of a rich guy in some Gulf Country.

She was not Syrian; she was never been there.

There was also a Syrian boy, pictured in dust and blood stains due to alleged Assad bombing, sitting in an ambulance.

Then the miracle boy appeared in several other 'scenes' as victim. It was an ISIS production assisted by the West.

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## kankan326

Akasa said:


> There are multiple witnesses, testimonies, and independent investigations into the matter, all of which concluded that there is widespread systematic abuse within these concentration camps.
> 
> Please don't forget that even some of their own leaders were initially against the idea of incarcerating people en masse on the basis of ethnicity and religion.


Please give a specific number of "multiple". 3, 5, or 10? We can make similar video saying US or any country is abusing human right by paying "multiple" people with basic acting skill.

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## S10

AUz said:


> Little scrawny beta-male chink is talking a lot but provides no evidence. Yes, economic development decrease birth rates but *NOT* collapses it within one year. THAT's is the key difference. Again, please show me another example from China where economic development caused a region to drop its birth rate more than 50% within 1 year and that too, from a very low fertility base already (less than 3 kids per woman). Please show me another example from China of this?
> 
> Answer is simple: *You can not show that. *
> 
> We all know the genocidal policies and concentration camps the barbarian Chinese are running against Uygyurs.


The evidence was already provided to you in the previous link, jihad reject.

It's called enforcement of family planning, which is not enforced until 2017 in Xinjiang. Prior to that, it is the region with the highest birth rate in China. You do know that birth rates can be drastically cut down if you mandate only one child per couple right? 3 kids per woman is low fertility to you? Were you born on a pig farm?

If you feel so strongly about it, reapply to be a suicide bomber. Maybe they're short on volunteers this time around. I'm sure ISIS is a little short on manpower at this time of the year and will consider a jihadi reject like yourself.


----------



## hualushui

Akasa said:


> There are multiple witnesses, testimonies, and independent investigations into the matter, all of which concluded that there is widespread systematic abuse within these concentration camps.
> 
> Please don't forget that even some of their own leaders were initially against the idea of incarcerating people en masse on the basis of ethnicity and religion.


bs.
Except for these media interviews, there is no evidence. What about the medical reports of these people? What about the so-called concentration camp video? Do you know how much area is needed to detain 1 million people? How many prison guards are needed? 
The brain is a good thing, I hope you can use it well

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## obj 705A

TaiShang said:


> When the West was trying to bring down Assad in Syria, a crying girl used to grace fake news media, like CNN, arguing rape and torture by devilish Syrian Army.
> 
> Then, it happens, the girl was the daughter of a rich guy in some Gulf Country.
> 
> She was not Syrian; she was never been there.
> 
> There was also a Syrian boy, pictured in dust and blood stains due to alleged Assad bombing, sitting in an ambulance.
> 
> Then the miracle boy appeared in several other 'scenes' as victim. It was an ISIS production assisted by the West.



I don't know about Xinjiang (because I've never went there and have no contact) but unfortunately outside of Xinjiang alot of muslims actually believe in whatever story the CIA tells them , NATO's war on Syria and Libya (under the former leader Gaddafi) probably being the best examples for that.
I mean just look at this video:-





The white helmets are clearly just a bunch of actors as one can see from the video yet there are many people who actually believe in this group.

Heck forget about Syria, in case of Libya it was ruled by a sunni muslim so even from a sectarian point of view it made no sense yet the NATO worshippers in the ummah still cheered for the freedom bombs..when will these people ever learn..fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me..the US has fooled a large portion of the muslim world dozens of times already yet they still don't learn.

When ever NATO wants to bomb a muslim country back to the stone age there always are a good number of idiots from the Ummah who will cheer in happiness for NATO's bombs.

There are two main curses that are destroying the muslim world, the first one is extremism and the second one is the portion of the ummah which is in love with America even if (and sometimes especially if) the US is bombing a muslim country.

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## Char

padamchen said:


> But even if your motives and methods are humane, you still have to consider outside opinion.
> 
> Canada has passed a resolution against you in their Parliament in recent news.
> 
> This may or may not be a precursor to sanctions.
> 
> How does China plan to react or tackle this?
> 
> Cheers, Doc



The incredible thing is that you think China should act in accordance with the requirements of the West.


----------



## padamchen

Char said:


> The incredible thing is that you think China should act in accordance with the requirements of the West.



Not at all.

I think you guys are doing a splendid job on your internal security issues.

My point was more about being interested in how Chinese saw the coming sanctions and how it would affect Chinese society and economy.

Cheers, Doc


----------



## Char

padamchen said:


> Not at all.
> 
> I think you guys are doing a splendid job on your internal security issues.
> 
> My point was more about being interested in how Chinese saw the coming sanctions and how it would affect Chinese society and economy.
> 
> Cheers, Doc



What is the outcome of Trump's trade war?


----------



## padamchen

Char said:


> What is the outcome of Trump's trade war?



Don't you think if people stop buying Chinese produce, blocking Chinese companies, and making it impossible for other companies to do business with Chinese companies, eventually China may have a problem on its hands?

Cheers, Doc


----------



## Char

padamchen said:


> Don't you think if people stop buying Chinese produce, blocking Chinese companies, and making it impossible for other companies to do business with Chinese companies, eventually China may have a problem on its hands?
> 
> Cheers, Doc



China will not give up its core interests because of its economic interests, nor does it believe that Western sanctions can prevent China's economic development.

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## padamchen

Char said:


> China will not give up its core interests because of its economic interests, nor does it believe that Western sanctions can prevent China's economic development.



Thanks for sharing.

Cheers, Doc

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## Beast

Akasa said:


> There are multiple witnesses, testimonies, and independent investigations into the matter, all of which concluded that there is widespread systematic abuse within these concentration camps.
> 
> Please don't forget that even some of their own leaders were initially against the idea of incarcerating people en masse on the basis of ethnicity and religion.


Multiple witness of who? BBC and CNN found witness? Who proven to be all bogus. It's easy to stage a fake account and then pay a few to spew rubbish. Then this few paid actor or actress will be offer state welfare and pension for their cooperation in EU and America.

Only those without conscience but for benefit of monetary will then lie. Such easy money, of cos they will do it.


----------



## Nasr

Dungeness said:


> Are the West selling "War on China" to public Now?
> 
> 1990: The story of "*throwing babies*" all over media, then "*The First Gulf War*" started ;
> 1999: The story of "*Mass Graves*" all over media, then "*Bombing of Serbia*" started;
> 2003: The story of "*Weapon of Mass Destruction*" all over media , then "*Second Gulf War*" started;
> 2021: The story of "*Uyghur women Systematically Raped*" all over media, then "*War on China*" follows?



That is what the people in power, in the West, are by true nature. They, the Elite that Rule the West (for the last 500 years) are the same scum, that do so today. In essence they strut themselves as benevolent, acting as the holders of morality, but in reality they are a bunch of lying, murdering, thieving, deceiving scum.


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## Rollno21

The credibility of China is so low outside that there are no takers outside other than Chinese bots and the Pakistanies on PDF, that's the reason people buy the western narrative.


----------



## LeGenD

Rollno21 said:


> The credibility of China is so low outside that there are no takers outside other than Chinese bots and the Pakistanies on PDF, that's the reason people buy the western narrative.


The biggest threat to American narrative are the Americans themselves. Americans are responsible for damaging their 9/11 narrative as well as their Iraqi narrative. Ponder over this.


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Akasa said:


> There are multiple witnesses, testimonies, and independent investigations into the matter, all of which concluded that there is widespread systematic abuse within these concentration camps.
> 
> Please don't forget that even some of their own leaders were initially against the idea of incarcerating people en masse on the basis of ethnicity and religion.







ANY credible evidence of that? If so then remember to post the links here.


----------



## sheik

Not sure if this has been posted before (I am more interested in military equipment and usually only go to the Chinese Defense Forum), but here are the two reports from the Gray Zone, a more objective source, after their investigation. 









US State Department accusation of China 'genocide' relied on data abuse and baseless claims by far-right ideologue - The Grayzone


The Trump and Biden administrations used right-wing religious extremist Adrian Zenz for their "genocide" accusation against China, based on flagrant data abuse and falsehoods




thegrayzone.com












China detaining millions of Uyghurs? Serious problems with claims by US-backed NGO and far-right researcher 'led by God' against Beijing - The Grayzone


Far-right Christian fundamentalist Adrian Zenz helped popularize claim China detained millions of Uyghur Muslims. He says he’s "led by God" on a "mission"




thegrayzone.com





All the lies from CIA (as admitted by Pompeo) and some US politicians only serve the interest of the US, some American companies, or the interest of the people themselves. Iraq being charged with non-existing WMD was only one example.


----------



## TMA

Unfortunately there are well known Muslims in the UK who do a grand job of explaining and defending Islam against Liberalism, falling prey to the 'genocide against Uighurs'. Sometimes I feel that British Intelligence are guided them, but then again most likely they are not savvy when it comes to geopolitcs.


----------



## Vanguard One

The Dutch parliament on Thursday passed a non-binding motion saying the treatment of the Uyghur Muslim minority in China amounts to genocide, the first such move by a European country.

Activists and United Nations rights experts say at least one million Muslims are being detained in camps in the remote western region of Xinjiang. The activists and some Western politicians accuse China of using torture, forced labor and sterilizations.

China denies any human rights abuses in Xinjiang and says its camps provide vocational training and are needed to fight extremism.

"A genocide on the Uyghur minority is occurring in China," the Dutch motion said, stopping short of directly saying that the Chinese government was responsible.

The Chinese Embassy in The Hague said on Thursday any suggestion of a genocide in Xinjiang was an "outright lie" and the Dutch parliament had "deliberately smeared China and grossly interfered in China's internal affairs."






The frozen Hofvijver pond is seen outside the Dutch parliament buildings in The Hague, Netherlands, Tuesday, February 9. 


*Canada passed a non-binding resolution labeling China's treatment of the Uyghurs genocide earlier this week.

The Dutch motion said that actions by the Chinese government such as "measures intended to prevent births" and "having punishment camps" fell under United Nations Resolution 260, generally known as the genocide convention.
Prime Minister Mark Rutte's conservative VVD party voted against the resolution.*

*'Great concern'*
Foreign Minister Stef Blok said the government did not want to use the term genocide, as the situation has not been declared as such by the United Nations or by an international court.

"The situation of the Uyghurs is a cause of great concern", Blok told reporters after the motion was passed, adding that the Netherlands hoped to work with other nations on the matter.

The author of the motion, lawmaker Sjoerd Sjoerdsma of the centre-left D-66 Party, has separately proposed lobbying the International Olympic Committee to move the 2022 Winter Olympics away from Beijing.

"Recognizing the atrocities that are taking place against the Uyghurs in China for what they are, namely genocide, prevents the world from looking the other way and forces us into action," he told Reuters in an emailed response to questions.

In a statement on its website, the Chinese Embassy in The Hague said the Uyghur population in Xinjiang has been growing in in recent years, enjoying a higher standard of living, and a longer life expectancy.

"How can you call this a genocide?" it said. "Xinjiang-related issues are never about human rights, ethnicity or religion, but about combating violent terrorism and secession."

China's ambassador to the United Nations in Geneva accused Western powers on Wednesday of using the Uyghur issue to meddle in his country's internal affairs.









Dutch parliament becomes second in a week to accuse China of genocide in Xinjiang


The Dutch parliament on Thursday passed a non-binding motion saying the treatment of the Uyghur Muslim minority in China amounts to genocide, the first such move by a European country.




edition.cnn.com

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## Beast

The EU want to play political and we will give them one! We will involved trade and business.






Why genocide like Kashmir is ignored and only talk about Xinjiang? If the EU are really righteous, I will salute them. But fact is, these hypocrite are selective in targeting things only to do with threat of their western imperialism due to the rise of China that will change how western influence on the world.

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## Dalit

The world doesn't take Western claims of genocide serious.


Beast said:


> The EU want to play political and we will give them one! We will involved trade and business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why genocide like Kashmir is ignored and only talk about Xinjiang? If the EU are really righteous, I will salute them. But fact is, these hypocrite are selective in targeting things only to do with threat of their western imperialism due to the rise of China that will change how western influence on the world.



These Westerners have double standards.

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## Beast

Dalit said:


> The world doesn't take Western claims of genocide serious.
> 
> 
> These Westerners have double standards.


If killing a million Uyghur can halt the rise of Chinese. These hypocrite Dutch will not hesitate to do it. Anybody who think these imperialism Dutch really care about Uyghur well-being need to get their head check.

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## 313ghazi

Hypocrites. They will talk to make it look like they care, but nothing will beat the bottom line. They will beg to trade with China. Despite being immensely wealthy they cannot put thier money where thier mouth is.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Interesting. Even the US state department has stated that it is legally impossible to prove genocide is occurring in Xinjiang. What evidence does the Netherlands have to make this assertion?

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## Beast

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Interesting. Even the US state department has stated that it is legally impossible to prove genocide is occurring in Xinjiang. What evidence does the Netherlands have to make this assertion?


They pull it out from their rear to just make a false accusation to suit their agenda.

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## zectech

zectech said:


> This is the strategy to get opposition of Washington into Russian plot. If you don't like Washington and the cia, you are a Russian agent.



Twitter, NATO and other trolls did the meme.

Sane human: I don't like wars or occupations
Twitter: You work for putin then!

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## Globenim

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Interesting. Even the US state department has stated that it is legally impossible to prove genocide is occurring in Xinjiang. What evidence does the Netherlands have to make this assertion?


Its in the USA staterun fakenews and they have it ... "from the [USA staterun fake]news". What more evidence do you need? 😂 Indians sure are happy their daylight hatecrimes are covered under these piles of lazy geopolitically motivated attrocity propaganda slurs.

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## zartosht

The US is trying unite the muslim world against China... 

They were very succesfull at this tactic with the soviets. even though the US is the biggest enemy of the middle east /islamic world. its propaganda machines were very succesfull in portraying the soviets as godless commies who were enemies of islam, and trying to conquer and convert islamic lands/people. 

they are repeating that exact same playbook in China. 

forget the millions americans killed in the middle east. forget the countries they destroyed and ruined with their regime change games. forget all the children murdered by drone strikes. forget all that and concentrate on those evil chinese commies genociding the uigurs!!

China should not underestimate this threat though. propaganda is probably the biggest strenghth of western states... and it is going to be very effective.

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## zectech

It is really hard to commit a genocide. It is supposed to be, it is devil worship. The Japanese in their war against China in the 30s and 40s did not commit a genocide. That is how hard it is. Even with mass slaughter of millions of civilians by Imperialist Japanese, still not a genocide.

What innocents in Xinjiang were killed. There are/were none, there were de-indoctrination camps to stop terrorism, so China did not need to air strike or drone strike Xinjiang like how the USA loves to drone strike Pakistan and kill thousands of innocent civilians.









Nearly 90 Percent Of People Killed In Recent Drone Strikes Were Not The Target


U.S. drone strikes have killed scores of civilians in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia.




www.huffpost.com













Pakistan lost over 50,000 civilians in war on terror | The Express Tribune


Pakistan lost 6,000 security personnel as compared to 2,357 US soldiers




tribune.com.pk





If you are extremely evil like the USA, then genocide is what USA does, like the genocide in Iraq that murdered over 10% of the Iraqi pre-war population.

US genocided the Iraqis twice, once with sanctions.

_Iraq, of course, was already under heavy US sanctions from 1989 to the 2003 invasion and occupation. The sanctions are estimated to have killed 1.6 million Iraqis, a great many of them children. Those sanctions were to punish Iraq for weapons of mass destruction that they didn’t have._









Trump Threatens Iraq Sanctions 'Like They've Never Seen Before' - News From Antiwar.com


Trump Threatens Iraq Sanctions 'Like They've Never Seen Before' | Says sanctions will 'make Iranian sanctions look somewhat tame'




news.antiwar.com





Then again with the Iraq War.

_Numbers are numbing, especially numbers that rise into the millions. But please remember that each person killed represents someone's loved one. 

But our calculations, using the best information available, show a catastrophic estimate of 2.4 million Iraqi deaths since the 2003 invasion. _









Opinion | The Iraq Death Toll 15 Years After the US Invasion


Numbers are numbing, especially numbers that rise into the millions. But please remember that each person killed represents someone's loved one.




www.commondreams.org





How evil of the USA to do a double genocide.

That is after US told Saddam that if Iraq invaded Kuwait, the US would not get involved, giving Saddam a green light to invade. This was reported by the NYT. Two horrible horrific genocides because USA wanted a new "villain" - Iraq.

Who did genocide besides USA, the non-German Dutch hordes did.









Did Dutch hordes kill off the early Britons who started Stonehenge?


A gene study has shown that incomers could have ousted Stone Age Britons




www.theguardian.com





Dutch out of the occupation of the Low Countries, back to the Steppe and beyond. Genociders must leave Europe.

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## FairAndUnbiased

zartosht said:


> China should not underestimate this threat though. propaganda is probably the biggest strenghth of western states... and it is going to be very effective.



it's only effective *if they can do something about it*, otherwise they look impotent and weak. Imagine someone talking shit about you every day, saying how you're fat, ugly, poor, how they'll beat you up easily. 

Then you slap them in the face and say "what are you gonna do about it" and they stay silent.

How weak and helpless do they look then?

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## Goritoes

Here is China...





And here somewhere in there is the Netherlands...





Plus, it's rich coming from a country that has beloved politicians like Greet Wliders.


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## Vanguard One

Human rights groups say the Chinese are committing horrific crimes against Uighurs. The UN has raised the alarm. The US and Canada have called it genocide. But China has repeatedly denied the accusations. So what do we know? And should the world be doing more?






"The first thing they asked me was to take off my clothes…

They put me in the cell with the drug addicts and with the killers and they beat me." Abduweli Ayup, a Uighur, alleges he was raped and tortured while in detention in China for 15 months. His is one of a growing number of stories recounted by Uighurs fleeing their homeland, as China faces increasing criticism of its treatment of the country's Muslim population. Experts estimate one million people are being held in detention centres in China's Xinjiang region. The government denies the claims.

*Sounds like the same thing the CCP have and are doing to the Tibetan's, and yet all the Muslims on here would rather lick the CCP boots.*


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## ToddBing

Everyone knows that Al-Jazeera is the voice of the CIA, Israel, EU, and Al-Qaeda since US invaded Iraq.
I dont think any wisdom muslim will buy this shit propaganda.

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## Vanguard One

ToddBing said:


> Everyone knows that Al-Jazeera is the voice of the CIA, Israel, EU, and Al-Qaeda since US invaded Iraq.



Yep, whatever you say.

Did you actually watch it? Or just like a typical CCP troll you post inane crap.


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## ToddBing

Vanguard One said:


> Yep, whatever you say.
> 
> Did you actually watch it? Or just like a typical CCP troll you post inane crap.


Oh yes, I watch this shit video, when a Child saying that "I am Chinese", the subtitles shows "I love China".
Only fool those who dont read Chinese like you.
If I am a CPC troll, you are obviously a CIA troll.

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## Vanguard One

ToddBing said:


> Oh yes, I watch this shit video, when a Child saying that "I am Chinese", the subtitles shows "I love China".
> Only fool those who dont read Chinese like you.



You watched a 50 minute combined video in 20 seconds? WOW


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## ToddBing

Vanguard One said:


> You watched a 50 minute combined video in 20 seconds? WOW


When you saw a shit on the ground, will you get away of it or will you finish eating it?
I guess you will thoose eating it.

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## Vanguard One

ToddBing said:


> When you saw a shit on the ground, will you get away of it or will you finish eating it?
> I guess you will thoose eating it.



Typical CCP answer.


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## StraightEdge

Rushan Abbas, who appears in this video was employed by CIA in guantanamo bay prison. 
Here's is her AMA in reddit. I am wondering why this video left out this point. 
I am Rushan Abbas - Uyghur Activist and survivor of Chinese oppression. My sister and my friends are currently trapped in western China's concentration camps. Ask me anything! : IAmA (reddit.com)

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## vi-va

US also claimed Iraq has WMD.
US also claimed invasion will bring Iraqis peace and prosperity.

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## Globenim

ToddBing said:


> Everyone knows that Al-Jazeera is the voice of the CIA, Israel, EU, and Al-Qaeda since US invaded Iraq.
> I dont think any wisdom muslim will buy this shit propaganda.


I mean the pretty much gave up on pretending not to be a US regime mouthpiece. That they are echoing these outright silly US regime attrocity propoganda lies shouldnt come to anyones surprise.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Vanguard One said:


> Yep, whatever you say.
> 
> Did you actually watch it? Or just like a typical CCP troll you post inane crap.



it is to the supreme luck of Uighurs that they're in China where they get welfare and respect, and have multiple celebrities on TV.

They could've been in a country that was proven to have decimated 90% of its native population, imported immigrants to change the local demographics, then subject the remaining 10% to alcoholism, gambling and police repression. to add insult to injury, *they don't even get TV shows made about them.*

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## Prince Kassad

Why isnt turkey raising its voice


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## comci

It is election time here in the Netherlands. Someone needs to be the bogeyman to get the muslim's immigrants vote to counter the rising extremist parties of Geert Wilders and Thierry Baudets. So hang on for only 2 months then it is business as usual until the next election again.


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## H. Dawary

The Chinese posters here will in time feel the pangs of conscience as they are older when they fully know they are supporting and defending such a wrong. My sympathies go out to you in your older age, I just hope your government supplies you with enough alcohol to kill the mental anguish.

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## ToddBing

H. Dawary said:


> The Chinese posters here will in time feel the pangs of conscience as they are older when they fully know they are supporting and defending such a wrong. My sympathies go out to you in your older age, I just hope your government supplies you with enough alcohol to kill the mental anguish.


Thank you for your concern, and still our fellowcitizens in Xinjiang lives a much more better life than yours in Afghanistan.
Of course I believe you don't care about them. maybe you just sell them to get your ticket to Canada,which country just invade your country several years ago and killes plenty of your people.


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## hualushui



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## hualushui



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## Adonis

hualushui said:


> View attachment 721625
> View attachment 721626



So you consider Tik Tok more authentic than BBC? 
On side note, every country does propaganda...China, UK, India, Pakistan...no different....point is whose story is selling and who is managing to achieve it's objectives …..
China always paint itself like a rainbow, projecting itself as heaven on earth where only angels live......that is not true.

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## hualushui

Adonis said:


> So you consider Tik Tok more authentic than BBC?
> On side note, every country does propaganda...China, UK, India, Pakistan...no different....point is whose story is selling and who is managing to achieve it's objectives …..
> China always paint itself like a rainbow, projecting itself as heaven on earth where only angels live......that is not true.


*I don't care what you think.
If your government agrees, I hope all Uyghurs who don’t like China will go to New Zealand*


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## Maira La

Adonis said:


> So What.....Nothing much only
> 
> - tight slap on the faces of Islamic countries who make hue and cry about atrocities on Muslims elsewhere but *keep mum on China*



This is good and I support this. China is an important "balancing" power against 100% global domination by the West.

That's why China's continued rise is seen as something positive.

For this Uighurs can be sacrificed. Though I hope both Han and Uighurs find a way to coexist peacefully.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Maira La said:


> This is good and I support this. China is an important "balancing" power against 100% global domination by the West.
> 
> That's why China's continued rise is seen as something positive.
> 
> For this Uighurs can be sacrificed. Though I hope both Han and Uighurs find a way to coexist peacefully.



I just have to ask you this question:

Dilraba Durmat （迪丽热巴）, an Uighur woman, is one of the hottest social media celebrities in China.








Is promoting an Uighur woman as a celebrity consistent with their claims?

What about promoting Uighur men as TV hosts, actors and musicians?












Have you ever heard of a minority being persecuted yet also being made into TV and music stars? Let me just ask: how many Native American TV stars are there in the US? How many Armenian, Kurdish or Greek actors are there in Turkey?


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## FairAndUnbiased

Adonis said:


> So you consider Tik Tok more authentic than BBC?



You consider 21st century grassroots social media to be less authentic than Cold War era bureaucratic, centralized government propaganda TV channels?

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## Zapper

ToddBing said:


> Everyone knows that Al-Jazeera is the voice of the CIA, Israel, EU, and Al-Qaeda since US invaded Iraq.
> I dont think any wisdom muslim will buy this shit propaganda.


Are you expecting a source from Global Times ?? 😂


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## Adonis

Maira La said:


> This is good and I support this. China is an important "balancing" power against 100% global domination by the West.
> 
> That's why China's continued rise is seen as something positive.
> 
> For this Uighurs can be sacrificed. Though I hope both Han and Uighurs find a way to coexist peacefully.



To your argument them India is a Balancing power against 100% Asian domination by China in IO region...similarly Japan in South china Sea, Israel is balancing power in Middle east against Arab domination, ... so to your logic then, the atrocities by these countries / Human right abuses can also be ignored...right?


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## Adonis

FairAndUnbiased said:


> You consider *21st century grassroots social media* to be less authentic than Cold War era bureaucratic, centralized government propaganda TV channels?



Lol.....then shut down your Global Times as well...you already have more authentic source to tell about China.


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## Dungeness

These days, some serious words like "democracy, human rights, freedom, genocide" have been watered down so much, people don't take them seriously anymore.


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## Char

Maira La said:


> This is good and I support this. China is an important "balancing" power against 100% global domination by the West.
> 
> That's why China's continued rise is seen as something positive.
> 
> For this Uighurs can be sacrificed. Though I hope both Han and Uighurs find a way to coexist peacefully.



The Uyghurs have not been sacrificed at all, of course this is not the point I want to talk about.

I think the rules of the game between Muslim countries and the West are different from the rules of the game between Muslim countries and China.

The West has created endless humanitarian disasters in Muslim countries, but at the same time it promotes freedom and democracy. Muslim countries criticize the West for not doing what they preach.

The Chinese have always emphasized equality between civilizations, countries, and people. I think this is what Muslim countries need, and what Muslims need.

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## Maira La

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I just have to ask you this question:
> 
> Dilraba Durmat （迪丽热巴）, an Uighur woman, is one of the hottest social media celebrities in China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is promoting an Uighur woman as a celebrity consistent with their claims?
> 
> What about promoting Uighur men as TV hosts, actors and musicians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever heard of a minority being persecuted yet also being made into TV and music stars? Let me just ask: how many Native American TV stars are there in the US? How many Armenian, Kurdish or Greek actors are there in Turkey?



Well I'm not sure celebs mean anything because US has black celebrities, India has Muslim actors, Russia produces famous Chechen MMA fighters.

But I am definitely inclined to believe the West is overexaggerating the problem with ulterior motives. I am also not convinced about the concentration camp thing. It's bogus.

Anyways my point was for most Muslim countries relation with China is more important than the Uyghur issue. Realpolitik basically.

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## xizhimen

*China on Dutch Uyghur motion, EU Xinjiang invite, EU not interest in visiting*
China again invites EU to visit Xinjiang, EU set the precodition that China allows EU to have full access to all prisons in Xinjiang and interview prisoners. otherwise EU won't interest in visiting.





Chinese government is so dumb in this regard, it should stop begging them to visit again and again, haters gonna hate, no matter what you do, no matter what they see.


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## xizhimen

Does any country give foreigners full access to your prisons and prisoners? These demands instantly make the Chinese population think of the western powers bullying and carving China up over 100 years ago, in China we call it "A hundred years national humiilation" it's a bitter national collective memory coming back.


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## TaiShang

BBC's Xinjiang hit job shamelessly misportrays China's development


Twisted stories, distorted facts and maligned intentions characterize BBC's reports on Xinjiang.




news.cgtn.com






On March 3, the BBC trotted out yet another hit piece aiming to whip up negative publicity towards northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, over China's treatment of the Uygur minority. The article, titled: "If the others go I'll go': Inside China's scheme to transfer Uighurs into work," accuses China of deliberately transferring Uygurs to other areas of China with the intention to "reduce the population density" of the group. It insinuates the scheme is a plot to "destroy the culture" of the minority and groundlessly alleges them to be engaging in forced labor.

*This is another piece of twisted "reporting" from the BBC, an organization that is openly collaborating with the British government to push ideological foreign policy goals. *It labors to distort China's goal of *economic integration and connecting the Uygur people with the rest of the country*. China's development-led migration is grotesquely turned into a scheme that destroys an entire ethnic group.

The evidence provided in the piece relies on *exaggeration and insinuation*, completely failed at proving the claims it made. The report establishes the mantra that China's actions in the regions are "secret" or "hidden." *Yet, it says that the Chinese government advertised urban jobs to Uygur population through public TV. *How in the world would this be anything "secret"? 

The report then says that because nobody opted to join, officials started encouraging locals, which leads to an emphasis on a young Uygur girl who eventually volunteered to go. Again, the report then proceeds to claim that "nobody volunteered" for to go to such jobs. 

How could there be no volunteers when it just said that there was a volunteer? *Also, how is voluntary participation in a job forced labor?

China's policies are not about attacking a cultural group.* Alienation and differentiation are two major problems that ethnic groups face when they are living within one system. *In the United States, African Americans have been placed at a huge economic disadvantage. In the United Kingdom, Muslim groups are more likely to be unemployed, receive less education and become locked in cycles of poverty and alienation which in turn create radicalization.* Look at the British born teenager Shamima Begum, who was born into a struggling Bangladeshi community in east London. She became radicalized as a teenager. There are many more cases like it.






A hat shop in Kashgar City, Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, northwest China. /VCG


Uygurs face similar problems too. *The process of moving to urban areas is more difficult for them than for Han Chinese. *Ethnic tensions and division create barriers. *China's policies are about breaking those barriers down and offering Uygurs social mobility, integrating them into the greater economy by providing jobs and economic opportunities.*

In Xinjiang, what the Chinese government is doing for Uygurs in urban areas is not to "reduce their population density," *but to encourage involvement in the society as a whole*. From 2010 to 2018, the Uygur population in Xinjiang increased from around 10 million to 12.7 million, *an increase of more than 25 percent*. The permanent resident population of region only grew by 13.99 percent over the same period. GDP in Xinjiang grew by 7.2 percent from 2014 to 2019, higher than the overall growth rate in China.

Yet, the BBC is smearing this as some kind of cultural eradication effort and grave evil, *as if it would prefer Uygurs to be alienated and trapped in Xinjiang, lacking social mobility or opportunities and locked out of China's most prosperous cities in the east.*

The BBC has persistently shown bad faith in presenting Xinjiang related issues. It has unreservedly sought to push an agenda on ideological grounds as opposed to empirical fact finding and reporting. *It wants to use this issue to damage China's reputation and legitimize Western anti-China policies, creating reputational traps for Western brands by making their presence in China a liability. *The malign intent of the report is evident in how it strives to draw extremely malicious conclusions out of a simple policy idea.

Irrespective of all this, *China will continue to advocate economic rights, social mobility and opportunities for the Uygur people*. By offering them the chance to work in the country's most prosperous cities, China is extending a lifeline to the Uygur people and helping them escape the cycle of radicalization, alienation and poverty which has beset Muslim communities throughout the West and led to terrorism and extremism.


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## beijingwalker

*What’s Xinjiang Really Like? -- Western Media VS local residents*


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## TaiShang

Basic education in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region has improved significantly in recent years, and the gross enrollment and coverage rates in the first three years of preschool education have gone up substantially, vice president of Xinjiang Normal University Gulpari Abdulla said on Wednesday at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing.

Gulpari and seven other political advisors met the press via video link at an event known as the Members' Corridor ahead of the closing of the fourth session of the 13th National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC), the country's top political advisory body.

Gulpari said the education industry in Xinjiang had undergone huge changes during her 40-year career. *She said that since 2016, the local authorities have been appointing cadres to support education in southern Xinjiang, imparting quality education to children from an early age and thereby playing an important role in improving the level of basic education in Xinjiang.*









CPPCC Members' Corridor: Xinjiang sees significant improvement in basic education


The state of basic education in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region has improved significantly in recent years, and the gross enrollment and coverage rates in the first three years of preschool education have gone up substantially, political advisor Gulpari Abdulla said on...




news.cgtn.com

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## Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8

Data from China's Offcial Statistics Yearbook has been used in this report



Uyghurs leave a mosque after prayers in Hotan, a town in China’s northwest Xinjiang region, in 2019. Greg Baker/AFP/Getty Images
*China’s genocide against the Uyghurs, in 4 disturbing charts*
From internment camps to mass sterilization, here’s why the ethnic minority’s birthrate is plunging.
By Sigal Samuel Mar 10, 2021, 8:30am EST

*Share this story*

Share this on Facebook (opens in new window)
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*This story is part of a group of stories called

*
Finding the best ways to do good.
China is responsible for an “ongoing genocide” against its Uyghur ethnic minority, according to the first independent legal analysis of the situation undertaken by a nongovernmental organization. The report, published this week by the Newlines Institute for Strategy and Policy think tank in Washington, DC, brought together the findings of 50 experts in human rights and international law.
Governments around the world are also increasingly declaring that China’s persecution of Uyghurs constitutes genocide. The United States applied that label in January, and the Canadian and Dutch parliaments followed suit in February.
It’s taken three years to get to this point. In 2018, when journalists like myself started reporting that China was putting Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities in internment camps, experts said we shouldn’t call it genocide — yet.
Though they said the camp system’s forced indoctrination and family separation may amount to cultural genocide, there wasn’t enough evidence to show that China’s actions met the United Nations’ definition of demographic genocide. Besides, advocates were having a hard enough time convincing the world that China was detaining a million people in camps without trial.

That’s changed. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs — a mostly Muslim ethnic minority that Beijing paints as a separatist and terrorist threat — is now well established. Several survivors have reported enduring torture in the camps. We’ve also learned that China transfers many of the detainees to factories across the country to perform forced labor. There’s evidence that this forced labor has leached into the global supply chain for products we all use, from companies like Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon.
The new report says that the Chinese government’s actions have violated “each and every act” prohibited by the UN Genocide Convention, namely: killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the group’s physical destruction, forcibly transferring children to another group, and imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.
Evidence that China is breaching that last prohibition has come in recent months from Uyghur testimonies as well as the Chinese government’s own statistics about Xinjiang, the northwestern region where Uyghurs are concentrated.
Take a look at this chart compiled using data from the China Statistical Yearbook (and originally tweeted by an Australian data analyst in slightly different form). The x-axis shows the year and the y-axis shows the number of births per 1,000 people. We can see that in Xinjiang, the birthrate has halved in two years.



Tim Ryan Williams/Vox
Adrian Zenz, a leading China scholar and senior fellow at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation in Washington, DC, added that the “natural population growth decline, which started in 2016/17, is even more shocking when you differentiate minority counties in Xinjiang from counties with a predominantly Han population.”
In a report released last summer, Zenz showed — using data from the Xinjiang Statistical Yearbooks — that between 2015 and 2018, population growth in the largely Uyghur areas of Kashgar and Hotan fell by a staggering 84 percent.



Adrian Zenz
This wasn’t only because China was splitting up Uyghur couples by sending some individuals to the camps. It was also slashing the Uyghur birthrate with the use of policies like mass sterilization and forced IUD implantation.
In 2014, a little over 200,000 IUDs were inserted in Xinjiang. That number rose to almost 330,000 IUDs by 2018 — a rise of more than 60 percent.
Meanwhile, the rates of IUD use elsewhere in China dropped, as you can see in this chart compiled using data from China’s official Annual Health and Hygiene Statistical Yearbooks. The y-axis shows the number of IUD placements per 100,000 people.



Adrian Zenz
Zenz’s report explained how the government arranged to subject women to this abusive treatment in their home communities: “Documents from 2019 reveal plans for a campaign of mass female sterilization … Xinjiang planned to subject at least 80 percent of women of childbearing age in the rural southern four minority prefectures to intrusive birth prevention surgeries (IUDs or sterilizations), with actual shares likely being much higher.”
He also pointed out that “budget figures indicate that this project had sufficient funding for performing hundreds of thousands of tubal ligation sterilization procedures in 2019 and 2020, with at least one region receiving additional central government funding.”

After Zenz published the report, the Xinjiang government denied that forced sterilization or genocide was taking place. Instead, it told CNN that the plunging birthrate was due to “comprehensive implementation of the family planning policy.” As CNN explained:


> Up until 2015, the Chinese government enforced a “one-child” family planning policy countrywide, which allowed most urban couples no more than one baby. Ethnic minorities, such as the Uyghur people, were typically allowed to have up to three but Xinjiang expert Zenz said that families from these groups often had many more children.
> When China officially began the two-child policy in January 2016, Uyghur citizens living in cities were limited to two children for the first time as well — their rural counterparts could still have up to three.
> The Xinjiang government attributed the sudden drop in population to Beijing’s family planning policies finally being properly implemented in the region after 2017.


Although the government denied the role of forced sterilization and claimed that compliance with family planning policies is voluntary, Zenz responded that it was not very likely that “17 times more women spontaneously wanted to be sterilized.”
Take a look at this chart, compiled using data from China’s Health and Hygiene Statistical Yearbooks. The y-axis shows the number of sterilizations per 100,000 people.



Adrian Zenz
China’s own documents seem to rebut its official denials. They show that as the network of camps grew, women were threatened with internment if they violated the birth control policies for rural Uyghurs (maximum three kids per family). One government document from May 2018, cited in Zenz’s report, said that women with too many kids must “both adopt birth control measures with long-term effectiveness and be subjected to vocational skills education and training.”
In other words, they’d get sterilizations or IUDs, plus time in an internment camp.

And in fact, in Xinjiang’s “Karakax List” — a leaked government document that details the reasons why hundreds of people were interned — childbearing violations were the most commonly cited reason for internment.
*Uyghur survivors speak out on reproductive and sexual violence*
In recent months, several Uyghur survivors have testified that the camps themselves have become sites of sterilization by injection, forced IUD implantation, and forced abortion.
Tursunay Ziyawudun, who spent nine months inside the camp system, told the Associated Press that she was given injections and kicked repeatedly in the stomach. Now, she no longer gets her period and can’t have children. (The AP obtained Xinjiang hospital slides revealing that pregnancy prevention injections, including with Depo-Provera, are a commonly used measure for family planning.) Ziyawudun also said a “teacher” at the camp told the women that if they were found to be pregnant, they would have to get abortions.
Survivors are also coming forward with accounts of sexual abuse and torture in the camps. In new interviews obtained by the BBC, they talk about public gang rapes, about electrified sticks that are inserted into women, about male officials picking the prettiest young women and taking them to a “black room” where there are no surveillance cameras.
Ziyawudun told the BBC that in May 2018, she and a cellmate in her 20s were taken at night to separate rooms. “The woman took me to the room next to where the other girl had been taken in. They had an electric stick, I didn’t know what it was, and it was pushed inside my genital tract, torturing me with an electric shock.”
She was brought back to her cell, and later, her cellmate returned too. “The girl became completely different after that, she wouldn’t speak to anyone, she sat quietly staring as if in a trance,” Ziyawudun said. “There were many people in those cells who lost their minds.”
The interviews are hard to read. And the charts above — which show a people whose numbers are in stark decline — are hard to look at. But it’s important to witness what China is doing to its Uyghur population. It has been largely neglected by the public, yet it looms as one of the most horrifying humanitarian crises in the world today.
Perhaps one of the reasons people have turned away from this crisis is because it’s hard to know what to do about it, given China’s economic might and political power. However, there are promising US bills to keep an eye on, including a new one seeking to expedite refugee applications from Uyghurs, as well as worthy advocacy groups and schools helping Uyghurs keep their culture alive.
*Watch: China’s secret internment camps*












China’s genocide against the Uyghurs, in 4 disturbing charts


From internment camps to mass sterilization, here’s why the ethnic minority’s birthrate is plunging.




www.vox.com

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## Silverblaze

Hindutvadi india is not even qualified to utter a sound against China or anyone for that matter. 

Hindu fascism is the mother of all forms of fascist ideologies. Their very symbol tells the whole story.

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## Beast

China backs Xinjiang firms, residents in lawsuits against Adrian Zenz


China has endorsed a spate of lawsuits by enterprises and residents in Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region against German national Adrian Zenz for spreading rumors about "forced labor" that the petitioners said have damaged their reputation and caused huge economic loses.




news.cgtn.com






Silverblaze said:


> Hindutvadi india is not even qualified to utter a sound against China or anyone for that matter.
> 
> Hindu fascism is the mother of all forms of fascist ideologies. Their very symbol tells the whole story.

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## rent4country

*Undeniably, China is committing Genocide on Uyghur Muslims*

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## Silverblaze

Beast said:


> China backs Xinjiang firms, residents in lawsuits against Adrian Zenz
> 
> 
> China has endorsed a spate of lawsuits by enterprises and residents in Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region against German national Adrian Zenz for spreading rumors about "forced labor" that the petitioners said have damaged their reputation and caused huge economic loses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.cgtn.com




India is a classic definition of fascism. 

They sincerely believe that they are a superior race. They think they own land from Afghanistan to Tibet and all the way to Myanmar. 

Now Xinjiang and Tibet are their targets with complete support from West. Hope Chinese intelligence community is well aware of this sinister plot.


rent4country said:


> *Undeniably, China is committing Genocide on Uyghur Muslims*



If you are an american, you are least qualified to even speak of genocide. Your very civilization is based on a undeniable genocide of the natives.

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## Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8

Silverblaze said:


> Hindutvadi india is not even qualified to utter a sound against China or anyone for that matter.
> 
> Hindu fascism is the mother of all forms of fascist ideologies. Their very symbol tells the whole story.




vox is not a Hindutvadi website...the data is from Chinese official sources

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## Beast

Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 said:


> vox is not a Hindutvadi website...the data is from Chinese official sources


Lol.. data from Chinese source? Who are u to kid? From adrian krenz? Just becos he says so? Stop making a fool of yourself.

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## rent4country

Silverblaze said:


> India is a classic definition of fascism.
> 
> They sincerely believe that they are a superior race. They think they own land from Afghanistan to Tibet and all the way to Myanmar.
> 
> Now Xinjiang and Tibet are their targets with complete support from West. Hope Chinese intelligence community is well aware of this sinister plot.
> 
> 
> If you are an american, you are least qualified to even speak of genocide. Your very civilization is based on a undeniable genocide of the natives.



Here's my question for you. Forget me and what you think of us. I'm curious to know at what point did you go that it was better to sell out your fellow Muslims and their genocide at the hands of the Chinese (and this is not one-body saying, this ten's of multiples of studies, investigations that are all concluding the same), just so that you could stand up to India/ America/whoever else?

... I don't get it; how your hatred for America makes you sell out your fellow Muslim's genocide and discount their plight when it comes to holding China accountable? It's like someone saying, "I'm going to let my people burn to spite my neighbor."

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## Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8

Beast said:


> Lol.. data from Chinese source? Who are u to kid? From adrian krenz? Just becos he says so? Stop making a fool of yourself.



They used China Statistical Yearbook



http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/2020/indexeh.htm

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## redtom

Adrian Zenz, a leading China scholar 

I am curious how much money they made for this.Propaganda is so straightforward.It feels like an Indian telecom scam, with an undisguised Indian accent, almost a stupid victim. But as long as there are enough times, you can always meet the deceived person.


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## Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8

redtom said:


> Adrian Zenz, a leading China scholar
> 
> I am curious how much money they made for this.Propaganda is so straightforward.It feels like an Indian telecom scam, with an undisguised Indian accent, almost a stupid victim. But as long as there are enough times, you can always meet the deceived person.





http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/2020/indexeh.htm



All stats taken from China Statiscal Yearbook 


Vox is a website that was extremely critical of racism in USA and Trump..


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## Maira La

Silverblaze said:


> If you are an american, you are least qualified to even speak of genocide. Your very civilization is based on a undeniable genocide of the natives.



He is not American. It's a little brown Pajeet draped in US flag.

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## Silverblaze

rent4country said:


> Here's my question for you. Forget me and what you think of us. I'm curious to know at what point did you go that it was better to sell out your fellow Muslims and their genocide at the hands of the Chinese (and this is not one-body saying, this ten's of multiples of studies, investigations that are all concluding the same), just so that you could stand up to India/ America/whoever else?
> 
> ... I don't get it; how your hatred for America makes you sell out your fellow Muslim's genocide and discount their plight when it comes to holding China accountable? It's like someone saying, "I'm going to let my people burn to spite my neighbor."



Facts remain the same. US and its institutions are not qualified to make any judgement or even pretend to worry about the muslim cause. America's stellar record vis a vis muslim countries is enough. 

American objectives are purely political and are least concerned about the well being of a particular community. 

Hate for US? There is no hate for American people. US establishment is what antagonizes many. 

Fascist india s irrelevant here. May an asteroid hit that land of filth. (Amen)


Maira La said:


> He is not American. It's a little brown Pajeet draped in US flag.



Thanks, didn't know. Wont reply to this individual again.


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## redtom

Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 said:


> http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/2020/indexeh.htm
> 
> 
> 
> All stats taken from China Statiscal Yearbook
> 
> 
> Vox is a website that was extremely critical of racism in USA and Trump..


So, did larger-scale genocides occur in Beijing, Shanghai, Liaoning, Tianjin, Jilin, and all other areas where the birth rate was lower than Xinjiang?

Or maybe it's just the first batch of only children entering the childbearing age.

Or is Xinjiang's rapid urbanization caused the decline of young people's willingness to have children?

Does the lower fertility rate in developed countries such as Japan, South Korea, and Western Europe mean that they have also experienced mass genocide?


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## Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8

redtom said:


> So, did larger-scale genocides occur in Beijing, Shanghai, Liaoning, Tianjin, Jilin, and all other areas where the birth rate was lower than Xinjiang?
> 
> Or maybe it's just the first batch of only children entering the childbearing age.
> 
> Or is Xinjiang's rapid urbanization caused the decline of young people's willingness to have children?
> 
> Does the lower fertility rate in developed countries such as Japan, South Korea, and Western Europe mean that they have also experienced mass genocide?



the drastic change from one yr to next is the issue


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## rent4country

Silverblaze said:


> Facts remain the same. US and its institutions are not qualified to make any judgement or even pretend to worry about the muslim cause. America's stellar record vis a vis muslim countries is enough.
> 
> American objectives are purely political and are least concerned about the well being of a particular community.
> 
> Hate for US? There is no hate for American people. US establishment is what antagonizes many.
> 
> Fascist india s irrelevant here. May an asteroid hit that land of filth. (Amen)
> 
> 
> Thanks, didn't know. Wont reply to this individual again.



Let's just say for the sake of it, everything you've proscribed bad about America is true. I still have the same question- what does America have to do with you selling out your fellow Muslims and their genocide at the hand of Chinese?

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## Itachi

Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 said:


> Data from China's Offcial Statistics Yearbook has been used in this report
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uyghurs leave a mosque after prayers in Hotan, a town in China’s northwest Xinjiang region, in 2019. Greg Baker/AFP/Getty Images
> *China’s genocide against the Uyghurs, in 4 disturbing charts*
> From internment camps to mass sterilization, here’s why the ethnic minority’s birthrate is plunging.
> By Sigal Samuel Mar 10, 2021, 8:30am EST
> 
> *Share this story*
> 
> Share this on Facebook (opens in new window)
> Share this on Twitter (opens in new window)
> SHAREAll sharing options
> *This story is part of a group of stories called
> 
> *
> Finding the best ways to do good.
> China is responsible for an “ongoing genocide” against its Uyghur ethnic minority, according to the first independent legal analysis of the situation undertaken by a nongovernmental organization. The report, published this week by the Newlines Institute for Strategy and Policy think tank in Washington, DC, brought together the findings of 50 experts in human rights and international law.
> Governments around the world are also increasingly declaring that China’s persecution of Uyghurs constitutes genocide. The United States applied that label in January, and the Canadian and Dutch parliaments followed suit in February.
> It’s taken three years to get to this point. In 2018, when journalists like myself started reporting that China was putting Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities in internment camps, experts said we shouldn’t call it genocide — yet.
> Though they said the camp system’s forced indoctrination and family separation may amount to cultural genocide, there wasn’t enough evidence to show that China’s actions met the United Nations’ definition of demographic genocide. Besides, advocates were having a hard enough time convincing the world that China was detaining a million people in camps without trial.
> 
> That’s changed. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs — a mostly Muslim ethnic minority that Beijing paints as a separatist and terrorist threat — is now well established. Several survivors have reported enduring torture in the camps. We’ve also learned that China transfers many of the detainees to factories across the country to perform forced labor. There’s evidence that this forced labor has leached into the global supply chain for products we all use, from companies like Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon.
> The new report says that the Chinese government’s actions have violated “each and every act” prohibited by the UN Genocide Convention, namely: killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the group’s physical destruction, forcibly transferring children to another group, and imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.
> Evidence that China is breaching that last prohibition has come in recent months from Uyghur testimonies as well as the Chinese government’s own statistics about Xinjiang, the northwestern region where Uyghurs are concentrated.
> Take a look at this chart compiled using data from the China Statistical Yearbook (and originally tweeted by an Australian data analyst in slightly different form). The x-axis shows the year and the y-axis shows the number of births per 1,000 people. We can see that in Xinjiang, the birthrate has halved in two years.
> 
> 
> 
> Tim Ryan Williams/Vox
> Adrian Zenz, a leading China scholar and senior fellow at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation in Washington, DC, added that the “natural population growth decline, which started in 2016/17, is even more shocking when you differentiate minority counties in Xinjiang from counties with a predominantly Han population.”
> In a report released last summer, Zenz showed — using data from the Xinjiang Statistical Yearbooks — that between 2015 and 2018, population growth in the largely Uyghur areas of Kashgar and Hotan fell by a staggering 84 percent.
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian Zenz
> This wasn’t only because China was splitting up Uyghur couples by sending some individuals to the camps. It was also slashing the Uyghur birthrate with the use of policies like mass sterilization and forced IUD implantation.
> In 2014, a little over 200,000 IUDs were inserted in Xinjiang. That number rose to almost 330,000 IUDs by 2018 — a rise of more than 60 percent.
> Meanwhile, the rates of IUD use elsewhere in China dropped, as you can see in this chart compiled using data from China’s official Annual Health and Hygiene Statistical Yearbooks. The y-axis shows the number of IUD placements per 100,000 people.
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian Zenz
> Zenz’s report explained how the government arranged to subject women to this abusive treatment in their home communities: “Documents from 2019 reveal plans for a campaign of mass female sterilization … Xinjiang planned to subject at least 80 percent of women of childbearing age in the rural southern four minority prefectures to intrusive birth prevention surgeries (IUDs or sterilizations), with actual shares likely being much higher.”
> He also pointed out that “budget figures indicate that this project had sufficient funding for performing hundreds of thousands of tubal ligation sterilization procedures in 2019 and 2020, with at least one region receiving additional central government funding.”
> 
> After Zenz published the report, the Xinjiang government denied that forced sterilization or genocide was taking place. Instead, it told CNN that the plunging birthrate was due to “comprehensive implementation of the family planning policy.” As CNN explained:
> 
> Although the government denied the role of forced sterilization and claimed that compliance with family planning policies is voluntary, Zenz responded that it was not very likely that “17 times more women spontaneously wanted to be sterilized.”
> Take a look at this chart, compiled using data from China’s Health and Hygiene Statistical Yearbooks. The y-axis shows the number of sterilizations per 100,000 people.
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian Zenz
> China’s own documents seem to rebut its official denials. They show that as the network of camps grew, women were threatened with internment if they violated the birth control policies for rural Uyghurs (maximum three kids per family). One government document from May 2018, cited in Zenz’s report, said that women with too many kids must “both adopt birth control measures with long-term effectiveness and be subjected to vocational skills education and training.”
> In other words, they’d get sterilizations or IUDs, plus time in an internment camp.
> 
> And in fact, in Xinjiang’s “Karakax List” — a leaked government document that details the reasons why hundreds of people were interned — childbearing violations were the most commonly cited reason for internment.
> *Uyghur survivors speak out on reproductive and sexual violence*
> In recent months, several Uyghur survivors have testified that the camps themselves have become sites of sterilization by injection, forced IUD implantation, and forced abortion.
> Tursunay Ziyawudun, who spent nine months inside the camp system, told the Associated Press that she was given injections and kicked repeatedly in the stomach. Now, she no longer gets her period and can’t have children. (The AP obtained Xinjiang hospital slides revealing that pregnancy prevention injections, including with Depo-Provera, are a commonly used measure for family planning.) Ziyawudun also said a “teacher” at the camp told the women that if they were found to be pregnant, they would have to get abortions.
> Survivors are also coming forward with accounts of sexual abuse and torture in the camps. In new interviews obtained by the BBC, they talk about public gang rapes, about electrified sticks that are inserted into women, about male officials picking the prettiest young women and taking them to a “black room” where there are no surveillance cameras.
> Ziyawudun told the BBC that in May 2018, she and a cellmate in her 20s were taken at night to separate rooms. “The woman took me to the room next to where the other girl had been taken in. They had an electric stick, I didn’t know what it was, and it was pushed inside my genital tract, torturing me with an electric shock.”
> She was brought back to her cell, and later, her cellmate returned too. “The girl became completely different after that, she wouldn’t speak to anyone, she sat quietly staring as if in a trance,” Ziyawudun said. “There were many people in those cells who lost their minds.”
> The interviews are hard to read. And the charts above — which show a people whose numbers are in stark decline — are hard to look at. But it’s important to witness what China is doing to its Uyghur population. It has been largely neglected by the public, yet it looms as one of the most horrifying humanitarian crises in the world today.
> Perhaps one of the reasons people have turned away from this crisis is because it’s hard to know what to do about it, given China’s economic might and political power. However, there are promising US bills to keep an eye on, including a new one seeking to expedite refugee applications from Uyghurs, as well as worthy advocacy groups and schools helping Uyghurs keep their culture alive.
> *Watch: China’s secret internment camps*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China’s genocide against the Uyghurs, in 4 disturbing charts
> 
> 
> From internment camps to mass sterilization, here’s why the ethnic minority’s birthrate is plunging.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vox.com



Awesome share....I'm bookmarking it as evidence. 



Silverblaze said:


> Hindutvadi india is not even qualified to utter a sound against China or anyone for that matter.
> 
> Hindu fascism is the mother of all forms of fascist ideologies. Their very symbol tells the whole story.



I'm pretty sure @Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 isn't one of those normal Sanghi types...

Doing something bad also doesn't absolve someone of the right to point out similar things in others...

Just look at your Iron Brother below your post.....he pulls a fast one by trying to distract us by saying that India does the same thing.........like does that make China less of a criminal??




Beast said:


> China backs Xinjiang firms, residents in lawsuits against Adrian Zenz
> 
> 
> China has endorsed a spate of lawsuits by enterprises and residents in Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region against German national Adrian Zenz for spreading rumors about "forced labor" that the petitioners said have damaged their reputation and caused huge economic loses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.cgtn.com



Keep the topic on China. There are already tons of threads on PDF discussing what happens to Indian Muslims.....we're all very acutely aware of that.

What doesn't get mentioned is what China does...

Also, India doing the similar things doesn't make China look any better.

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## Silverblaze

Itachi said:


> Awesome share....I'm bookmarking it as evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure @Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 isn't one of those normal Sanghi types...
> 
> Doing something bad also doesn't absolve someone of the right to point out similar things in others...
> 
> Just look at your Iron Brother below your post.....he pulls a fast one by trying to distract us by saying that India does the same thing.........like does that make China less of a criminal??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep the topic on China. There are already tons of threads on PDF discussing what happens to Indian Muslims.....we're all very acutely aware of that.
> 
> What doesn't get mentioned is what China does...
> 
> Also, India doing the similar things doesn't make China look any better.



Comparison with india will always be there. Why should a hindutvadi qualify to even utter a word on muslim rights? Its like Nazis complaining about anti antisemitism in the US. 

Now in Pakistani context. Has China killed a million muslims as was the case in 1947? Did China invade East Pakistan? Is China fanning terrorism in Pakistan? Is China occupying kashmir? Is it bombing it like gaza?

If the choice is between China and the ideological and civilizational enemy of Pakistan and muslims which is by far the hindu state of india one would easily choose China. 

And yes China is an iron brother. It has proven it time and gain.

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## beijingwalker

The true figure from Chinese official statistics

Source：Statistical Bureau of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region

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## Indos

Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 said:


> vox is not a Hindutvadi website...the data is from Chinese official sources



Yup, it seem unnatural, the birth rate is down after the CCP crackdown in Xinjiang.

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## beijingwalker

redtom said:


> Adrian Zenz, a leading China scholar
> 
> I am curious how much money they made for this.Propaganda is so straightforward.It feels like an Indian telecom scam, with an undisguised Indian accent, almost a stupid victim. But as long as there are enough times, you can always meet the deceived person.



*China supports Xinjiang people, enterprises to sue German rumormonger Adrian Zenz




*

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## Indos

Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 said:


> They used China Statistical Yearbook
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/2020/indexeh.htm



This post should be highlighted. It was discussed extensively in CNN International about two days ago. There is extensive writing also in CNN website page about this.

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## beijingwalker

Indos said:


> Yup, it seem unnatural, the birth rate is down after the CCP crackdown in Xinjiang.


Overall birth rate of whole China is declining in recent year, year 2018 was the worst, China experienced lowest birth growth rate since 1949.
2018年人口出生率为10.94‰。据21世纪经济报道，这是1949年以来历史最低值。

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## Indos

beijingwalker said:


> Overall birth rate of whole China is declining in recent year, year 2018 was the worst, China experienced lowest birth growth rate since 1949.
> 2018年人口出生率为10.94‰。据21世纪经济报道，这是1949年以来历史最低值。



The declining is so deep in 2018 forward, look like very coincident with Xi Jin Ping hard measure on Uigyur. Natural decline shouldnt be so sharp

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## beijingwalker

China also worries, 2 million less babies were born in 2018 than in 2017, and for the first time, China's overall working population registered a negative growth.



http://www.infzm.com/content/144142


Chinese netizens comments and grievances in the comment section after this report









Indos said:


> The declining is so deep in 2018 forward, look like very coincident with Xi Jin Ping hard measure on Uigyur. Natural decline shouldnt be so sharp


Uighur population account for less than 1% of China's, their number is negligible in China sharp new born drop in 2018.

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## Char

Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8 said:


> Data from China's Offcial Statistics Yearbook has been used in this report
> 
> 
> 
> Uyghurs leave a mosque after prayers in Hotan, a town in China’s northwest Xinjiang region, in 2019. Greg Baker/AFP/Getty Images
> *China’s genocide against the Uyghurs, in 4 disturbing charts*
> From internment camps to mass sterilization, here’s why the ethnic minority’s birthrate is plunging.
> By Sigal Samuel Mar 10, 2021, 8:30am EST
> 
> *Share this story*
> 
> Share this on Facebook (opens in new window)
> Share this on Twitter (opens in new window)
> SHAREAll sharing options
> *This story is part of a group of stories called
> 
> *
> Finding the best ways to do good.
> China is responsible for an “ongoing genocide” against its Uyghur ethnic minority, according to the first independent legal analysis of the situation undertaken by a nongovernmental organization. The report, published this week by the Newlines Institute for Strategy and Policy think tank in Washington, DC, brought together the findings of 50 experts in human rights and international law.
> Governments around the world are also increasingly declaring that China’s persecution of Uyghurs constitutes genocide. The United States applied that label in January, and the Canadian and Dutch parliaments followed suit in February.
> It’s taken three years to get to this point. In 2018, when journalists like myself started reporting that China was putting Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities in internment camps, experts said we shouldn’t call it genocide — yet.
> Though they said the camp system’s forced indoctrination and family separation may amount to cultural genocide, there wasn’t enough evidence to show that China’s actions met the United Nations’ definition of demographic genocide. Besides, advocates were having a hard enough time convincing the world that China was detaining a million people in camps without trial.
> 
> That’s changed. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs — a mostly Muslim ethnic minority that Beijing paints as a separatist and terrorist threat — is now well established. Several survivors have reported enduring torture in the camps. We’ve also learned that China transfers many of the detainees to factories across the country to perform forced labor. There’s evidence that this forced labor has leached into the global supply chain for products we all use, from companies like Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon.
> The new report says that the Chinese government’s actions have violated “each and every act” prohibited by the UN Genocide Convention, namely: killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the group’s physical destruction, forcibly transferring children to another group, and imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.
> Evidence that China is breaching that last prohibition has come in recent months from Uyghur testimonies as well as the Chinese government’s own statistics about Xinjiang, the northwestern region where Uyghurs are concentrated.
> Take a look at this chart compiled using data from the China Statistical Yearbook (and originally tweeted by an Australian data analyst in slightly different form). The x-axis shows the year and the y-axis shows the number of births per 1,000 people. We can see that in Xinjiang, the birthrate has halved in two years.
> 
> 
> 
> Tim Ryan Williams/Vox
> Adrian Zenz, a leading China scholar and senior fellow at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation in Washington, DC, added that the “natural population growth decline, which started in 2016/17, is even more shocking when you differentiate minority counties in Xinjiang from counties with a predominantly Han population.”
> In a report released last summer, Zenz showed — using data from the Xinjiang Statistical Yearbooks — that between 2015 and 2018, population growth in the largely Uyghur areas of Kashgar and Hotan fell by a staggering 84 percent.
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian Zenz
> This wasn’t only because China was splitting up Uyghur couples by sending some individuals to the camps. It was also slashing the Uyghur birthrate with the use of policies like mass sterilization and forced IUD implantation.
> In 2014, a little over 200,000 IUDs were inserted in Xinjiang. That number rose to almost 330,000 IUDs by 2018 — a rise of more than 60 percent.
> Meanwhile, the rates of IUD use elsewhere in China dropped, as you can see in this chart compiled using data from China’s official Annual Health and Hygiene Statistical Yearbooks. The y-axis shows the number of IUD placements per 100,000 people.
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian Zenz
> Zenz’s report explained how the government arranged to subject women to this abusive treatment in their home communities: “Documents from 2019 reveal plans for a campaign of mass female sterilization … Xinjiang planned to subject at least 80 percent of women of childbearing age in the rural southern four minority prefectures to intrusive birth prevention surgeries (IUDs or sterilizations), with actual shares likely being much higher.”
> He also pointed out that “budget figures indicate that this project had sufficient funding for performing hundreds of thousands of tubal ligation sterilization procedures in 2019 and 2020, with at least one region receiving additional central government funding.”
> 
> After Zenz published the report, the Xinjiang government denied that forced sterilization or genocide was taking place. Instead, it told CNN that the plunging birthrate was due to “comprehensive implementation of the family planning policy.” As CNN explained:
> 
> Although the government denied the role of forced sterilization and claimed that compliance with family planning policies is voluntary, Zenz responded that it was not very likely that “17 times more women spontaneously wanted to be sterilized.”
> Take a look at this chart, compiled using data from China’s Health and Hygiene Statistical Yearbooks. The y-axis shows the number of sterilizations per 100,000 people.
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian Zenz
> China’s own documents seem to rebut its official denials. They show that as the network of camps grew, women were threatened with internment if they violated the birth control policies for rural Uyghurs (maximum three kids per family). One government document from May 2018, cited in Zenz’s report, said that women with too many kids must “both adopt birth control measures with long-term effectiveness and be subjected to vocational skills education and training.”
> In other words, they’d get sterilizations or IUDs, plus time in an internment camp.
> 
> And in fact, in Xinjiang’s “Karakax List” — a leaked government document that details the reasons why hundreds of people were interned — childbearing violations were the most commonly cited reason for internment.
> *Uyghur survivors speak out on reproductive and sexual violence*
> In recent months, several Uyghur survivors have testified that the camps themselves have become sites of sterilization by injection, forced IUD implantation, and forced abortion.
> Tursunay Ziyawudun, who spent nine months inside the camp system, told the Associated Press that she was given injections and kicked repeatedly in the stomach. Now, she no longer gets her period and can’t have children. (The AP obtained Xinjiang hospital slides revealing that pregnancy prevention injections, including with Depo-Provera, are a commonly used measure for family planning.) Ziyawudun also said a “teacher” at the camp told the women that if they were found to be pregnant, they would have to get abortions.
> Survivors are also coming forward with accounts of sexual abuse and torture in the camps. In new interviews obtained by the BBC, they talk about public gang rapes, about electrified sticks that are inserted into women, about male officials picking the prettiest young women and taking them to a “black room” where there are no surveillance cameras.
> Ziyawudun told the BBC that in May 2018, she and a cellmate in her 20s were taken at night to separate rooms. “The woman took me to the room next to where the other girl had been taken in. They had an electric stick, I didn’t know what it was, and it was pushed inside my genital tract, torturing me with an electric shock.”
> She was brought back to her cell, and later, her cellmate returned too. “The girl became completely different after that, she wouldn’t speak to anyone, she sat quietly staring as if in a trance,” Ziyawudun said. “There were many people in those cells who lost their minds.”
> The interviews are hard to read. And the charts above — which show a people whose numbers are in stark decline — are hard to look at. But it’s important to witness what China is doing to its Uyghur population. It has been largely neglected by the public, yet it looms as one of the most horrifying humanitarian crises in the world today.
> Perhaps one of the reasons people have turned away from this crisis is because it’s hard to know what to do about it, given China’s economic might and political power. However, there are promising US bills to keep an eye on, including a new one seeking to expedite refugee applications from Uyghurs, as well as worthy advocacy groups and schools helping Uyghurs keep their culture alive.
> *Watch: China’s secret internment camps*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China’s genocide against the Uyghurs, in 4 disturbing charts
> 
> 
> From internment camps to mass sterilization, here’s why the ethnic minority’s birthrate is plunging.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vox.com



Five Eyes and Indians are seeking help from Muslims to deal with China. This is the impression of fake news.

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## beijingwalker

The west never reports anything good and positive about Xinjiang, they make people believe everything in Xinjiang is bad and it's hell on earth for the people living there. the thought of the word of "Xinjiang" will make many westerners depressed due to unrelented 24/7 western smearing Xinjiang campaign.

But the reality is in the past several years, Xinjiang experienced unprecedented progress and development, people's standard of living have been massively improved, now Xinjiang enjoys the world top class infrastructure , for the first time in the history, the region has zero poverty, every household can afford private cars, every young person can go to college, every one is covered by government health care...

Western media will never let you know it and they never say even one word at it, but just check the massive population quality growth one of the above posted charts, it's just mindblowing.

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## Indos

beijingwalker said:


> China also worries, 2 million less babies were born in 2018 than in 2017, and for the first time, China's overall working population registered a negative growth.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.infzm.com/content/144142
> 
> 
> Chinese netizens comments and grievances in the comment section after this report
> View attachment 723553
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uighur population account for less than 1% of China's, their number is negligible in China sharp new born drop in 2018.



We are talking about Uigyur sharp decline new born babies data since 2018, not Han ethnic. Some have accused it is part of sterilization program on Uigyur ethnic.

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## beijingwalker

Gülnezer Bextiyar， Famous Uighur actress in China.
When your heart is dirty, everything in your eyes is dirty.







Indos said:


> We are talking about Uigyur sharp decline new born babies data since 2018, not Han ethnic. Some have accused it is part of sterilization program on Uigyur ethnic.


Uighurs are part of the Chinese population, what affects China's birth rate also affects Uighur birthrate, it's a national thing, not just about a specific region. check out the Chinese commets for the reasons of the sharp birthrate drop in China in 2018, but that's all their own personal opinions though.

It's like saying that although no Chinse can own guns, but since Uighurs also can not own guns so China must be persecuting Uighurs, what a stupid logic...

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## Indos

beijingwalker said:


> Gülnezer Bextiyar， Famous Uighur actress in China.
> When your heart is dirty, everything in your eyes is dirty.
> 
> View attachment 723555
> 
> 
> Uighurs are part of the Chinese population, what affects China's birth rate also affects Uighur birthrate, it's a national thing, not just about a specific region. check out the Chinese commets for the reasons of the sharp birthrate drop in China in 2018, but that's all their own personal opinions though.
> 
> It's like saying that although no Chinse can own guns, but since Uighurs also can not own guns so China must be persecuting Uighurs, what a stupid logic...



Stupid logic ????

Here the decline is so sharp in Xinjiang compared to nationwide decline. Even it gets below average in just 2 years span, despite Uigyur is not part of China 2 child policy.

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## beijingwalker

Uighurs indeed tend have big families, before when they had 6 children and their children started working a bit and provided for the families at age of 14, families were more than happy to have more children, the more, the merrier.
But in recent years things changed, every child now goes to college, that means the families have to provide for them and the children won't provide for the families until they are in their mid 20's.
Do you still want to have 6 children?


Indos said:


> Stupid logic ????
> 
> Here the decline is so sharp in Xinjiang compared to nationwide decline. Even it gets below average in just 2 years span, despite Uigyur is not part of China 2 child policy.
> 
> View attachment 723556


I have posted the true figure by the offical site, you chart was produced by that China basher himself, this chart never exists on Chinese statistic site. Everyone can draw a chart, it's not rocket science.

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## hualushui

rent4country said:


> *Undeniably, China is committing Genocide on Uyghur Muslims*


*Chinese genocide：The number of Muslims has increased by 2.5 times.
American genocide：kill 10 million Native Americans*


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## Indos

beijingwalker said:


> Uighurs indeed tend have big families, before when they had 6 children and their children started working a bit and provided for the families at age of 14, families were more than happy to have more children, the more, the merrier.
> But in recent years things changed, every child now goes to college, that means the families have to provide for them and the children won't provide for the families until they are in their mid 20's.
> Do you still want to have 6 children?
> 
> I have posted the true figure by the offical site, you chart was produced by that China basher himself, this chart never exists on Chinese statistic site. Everyone can draw a chart, it's not rocket science.



China official data that you have posted also shows sharp decline in Xinjiang data, maybe it can be shocking if Uigyur ethnic data is revealed

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## beijingwalker

Indos said:


> China official data that you have posted also shows sharp decline in Xinjiang data, maybe it can be shocking if Uigyur ethnic data is revealed
> 
> View attachment 723567


This data was there long before that fake chart made by that rumor mongerer on his biased interpretation of the numbers, as you can see, China's national level birth rate dropped sharply too in 2018, and Xinjiang's birthrate was almost twice as high as the national average in the year, what kind of persecution is it? It's way more convincing if you use this chart to accuse China of persecuting Han Chinese, at least from the number it appears to be the case.

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## Indos

beijingwalker said:


> This data was there long before that fake chart made by that rumor mongerer on his biased interpretation of the numbers, as you can see, China's national level birth rate dropped too in 2008, and Xinjiang's birthrate is still much higher than the national average, what kind of persecution is it? It's more plausible if you use this chart to accuse China of persecuting Han Chinese, at least from the number it appears to be the case.



The Xinjiang birth rate is reduced in half just for a year span, not natural. Any one with clear logic will see it as something wrong must have happened for that huge decrease in just one year.

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## beijingwalker

Indos said:


> The Xinjiang birth rate is reduced in half just for a year span, not natural. Any one with clear logic will see it as something wrong must happen for that huge decrease in just one year.


So was China's overall average, it's not only Xinjiang, check out the comment section and see how Chinese netizens opinions on this sudden nationwide drop in 2018.
The hard fact is Xinjiang's birthrate is still twice as high as China's average, so calling China persecuting Uighurs is very absurd, China is persecuting Han is more like it.

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## beijingwalker

China spokesman: Uyghur population had been more than doubled in 50 years (5.5million to over 12million) and native Indians used to be 20 times the current size in US, so who is genociding?

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## qwerrty

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369329154114678790

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## tower9

Facts hurt


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## GumNaam

beijingwalker said:


> China spokesman: Uyghur population had been more than doubled in 50 years (5.5million to over 12million) and native Indians used to be 20 times the current size in US, so who is genociding?


China & all of its allies INCLUDING Pakistan, Russia & others need to officially pass resolutions against the u.s. in committing genocide against the native indian population & 300 years of slavery followed by another 100 years of apartheid like segregating along with a demand for an apologize to those populations & payment of damages that should run into the hundreds of billions. 

hey, it's only fair.

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## Hamartia Antidote

beijingwalker said:


> China spokesman: Uyghur population had been more than doubled in 50 years (5.5million to over 12million) and native Indians used to be 20 times the current size in US, so who is genociding?



No, he is wrong..
There were an estimated 3.8M Native Americans in the US and Canada in 1492. 18M in Mexico and about 20M south of Mexico.

The current Native American population in the US is 2.7M and 1.6M in Canada for 4.3M.









Population history of Indigenous peoples of the Americas - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






You should liken the Native American population in the US in 1492 to the people of Mongolia and those south of the US to that of China. Mongolia probably has a population of around 3.3M while further South China has 1.3Billion. Weather and environment make a big difference.


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## Beast

Hamartia Antidote said:


> No, he is wrong..
> There were an estimated 3.8M Native Americans in the US and Canada in 1492. 18M in Mexico and about 20M south of Mexico.
> 
> The current Native American population in the US is 2.7M and 1.6M in Canada for 4.3M.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Population history of Indigenous peoples of the Americas - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



You shall u can get accurate data from 1492? Maybe after killing 90% of native american then the white european start counting..

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## Hamartia Antidote

Beast said:


> You shall u can get accurate data from 1492? Maybe after killing 90% of native american then the white european start counting..



Why are there only a few million in Mongolia but 1.3B in China...did you kill them all??

Why would you think there would be far more Native Americans in 1492 US than there are in 2021 Mongolia?


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## S10

Actually, it's almost a quadruple increase. Uyghur population in Xinjiang was 3.6 million according to 1953 Census data. In 2018, that number rose to 12.8 million and it's probably closer to 13 million now. Uyghur was the fastest-growing ethnic group in China for the past 60 years. It wasn't until 2017 that they were required to adhere to the One-Child Policy like the rest of us have been obeying for the past 40 years.

From 2010 to 2018, the number of Uyghurs increased by nearly 2.5 million in Xinjiang. In comparison, the Han population in Xinjiang increased by 178 thousand. Uyghurs were increasing at 15 times the rate of Hans.

"_Genocide_" my ***


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## CriticalThinker02

rent4country said:


> Let's just say for the sake of it, everything you've proscribed bad about America is true. I still have the same question- what does America have to do with you selling out your fellow Muslims and their genocide at the hand of Chinese?



If you Americans care about Muslims so much how about you first stop being a hypocrite and bring Israel to task for committing genocide (ACTUAL GENOCIDE BY USING TANKS, GUNS, SNIPER RIFLES AND FIGHTER JETS TO KILL UNARMED NURSES (Rouzan al-Najr), CHILDREN AND DISABLED PEOPLE) against Palestinian Muslims instead of providing them with uncountable levels of weapons of mass destruction.


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## Beast

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Why are there only a few million in Mongolia but 1.3B in China...did you kill them all??
> 
> Why would you think there would be far more Native Americans in 1492 US than there are in 2021 Mongolia?
> 
> View attachment 723588


What are u talking about? There are 10million mongolian in China. While Mongolia population is only 3.2 million. You have to extract Tuvan ethnic. That means mongolian even lesser in mongolia compare to China. 

While white american has wiped off large number of native american and fabricate few hundred years ago data to suit their narrative. Everybody you kill off most native american using small pox. Now try the same.old trick of covid-19 to attack China. Unfortunately, it backfired and Chinese are no red Indian. 

We are far resilent and more powerful.

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## _NOBODY_



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## PakistaniAtBahrain

not seeing any beards or hijabs.

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## powastick

I'm suspecting the population growth is lower is cause by higher participation of women in labor.


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## Char

Indos said:


> China official data that you have posted also shows sharp decline in Xinjiang data, maybe it can be shocking if Uigyur ethnic data is revealed
> 
> View attachment 723567



Xinjiang is industrializing, and the population growth rate has fallen normally, and it is still higher than the national population growth rate. The high birth rate of Uyghurs is also one of the reasons for Xinjiang’s problems. Population growth has exceeded the carrying capacity of the land. A lot of land in southern Xinjiang is The Gobi Desert will not work without industrialization. Too fast population growth is also a common problem in Muslim countries. Of course, this is not my consideration, but Xinjiang is a problem that China needs to consider. If there is a population race in the world one day, I think China also Won't lose.


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## rent4country

Waqas said:


> If you Americans care about Muslims so much how about you first stop being a hypocrite and bring Israel to task for committing genocide (ACTUAL GENOCIDE BY USING TANKS, GUNS, SNIPER RIFLES AND FIGHTER JETS TO KILL UNARMED NURSES (Rouzan al-Najr), CHILDREN AND DISABLED PEOPLE) against Palestinian Muslims instead of providing them with uncountable levels of weapons of mass destruction.



Let's just for argument's sake say we Americans do not care about anyone, and we are horrible people. I still have the question, why does that make you sell-out your fellow Muslims and not care about their genocide at the hands of the Chinese?


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## CriticalThinker02

rent4country said:


> Let's just for argument's sake say we Americans do not care about anyone, and we are horrible people. I still have the question, why does that make you sell-out your fellow Muslims and not care about their genocide at the hands of the Chinese?



Do you see Chinese Tanks, Sniper Rifles, Guns and Fighter Jets killing Muslims? because I don't but I do see American provided Tanks, Sniper Rifles, Guns and Fighter Jets used indiscriminately in killing unarmed innocent Muslims in gaza and else where, an open air prison with out any future funded, politically and militarily protected by the American empire, we are done fighting your wars for you, the biggest mistake we made was side with you by cutting down the USSR and making you a unipolar power, we will not make the same mistake twice, the American power needs to be cut down for true world peace to have a chance.

Your tax payer money killed her, the facist regime that your country supports.

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## Iñigo

__





Remember These Children: Dedication






www.rememberthesechildren.org


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## rent4country

Waqas said:


> Do you see Chinese Tanks, Sniper Rifles, Guns and Fighter Jets killing Muslims? because I don't but I do see American provided Tanks, Sniper Rifles, Guns and Fighter Jets used indiscriminately in killing unarmed innocent Muslims in gaza and else where, an open air prison with out any future funded, politically and militarily protected by the American empire, we are done fighting your wars for you, the biggest mistake we made was side with you by cutting down the USSR and making you a unipolar power, we will not make the same mistake twice, the American power needs to be cut down for true world peace to have a chance.
> 
> Your tax payer money killed her, the facist regime that your country supports.



Are you are saying the tens of investigations, the hundreds of eyewitness accounts, the UN, and practically every civilized country that has found genocide or severe targeted actions taking place against Muslims in China, as being a lie? 

Question: why are selling out on the genocide of Muslims in China for convenience, but then want us to believe you care about Muslim persecution in Palestine?


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## CriticalThinker02

rent4country said:


> Are you are saying the tens of investigations, the hundreds of eyewitness accounts, the UN, and practically every civilized country that has found genocide or severe targeted actions taking place against Muslims in China, as being a lie?
> 
> Question: why are selling out on the genocide of Muslims in China for convenience, but then want us to believe you care about Muslim persecution in Palestine?



The so called "civilised world" (btw how the US can be considered a civilised nation when she has been at war for *222* Out of 239 *Years* – Since 1776 when she achieved her independence, I am pretty sure war mongering is not akin to the word civilised so please refrain from calling yourself a civilised nation) has vested interest for the containment of China so any tens of investigation by the so called "civilised world" should be taken with a grain of salt specially when they turn a blatant blind eye to the heinous war crimes their own allied countries like Israel and their mercenaries forces like Blackwater has committed.

According to Pakistan's national security advisor to the Prime Minister Dr Mooed Yusuf, Pakistan has a complete transparent relations with the Chinese even more transparent and closely connected then the NATO and we discuss almost every issue there is to discuss and we have discussed the Xinjiang as well, Pakistan's delegations has visited Xinjiang. We have seen and we are 100% satisfied and we consider it to be a non-issue. We know everything we need to know about the Uighurs and we has zero concerns, the west on the other can say what it wants.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1321844423991431172


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## rent4country

Waqas said:


> The so called "civilised world" (btw how the US can be considered a civilised nation when she has been at war for *222* Out of 239 *Years* – Since 1776 when she achieved her independence, I am pretty sure war mongering is not akin to the word civilised so please refrain from calling yourself a civilised nation) has vested interest for the containment of China so any tens of investigation by the so called "civilised world" should be taken with a grain of salt specially when they turn a blatant blind eye to the heinous war crimes their own allied countries like Israel and their mercenaries forces like Blackwater has committed.
> 
> According to Pakistan's national security advisor to the Prime Minister Mooed Yusuf, Pakistan has a complete transparent relations with the Chinese even more transparent and closely connected then the NATO and we discuss almost every issue there is to discuss and we have discussed the Xinjiang as well, Pakistan's delegations has visited Xinjiang. We have seen and we are 100% satisfied and we consider it to be a non-issue. We know everything we need to know about the Uighurs and we has zero concerns, the west on the other can say what it wants.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1321844423991431172



Again, what does American behavior have to do with you selling out fellow Muslims and their genocide in China? Either you are the keeper of Muslims or you are a part-time and convenient gatekeeper of only SOME Muslim communities. Pakistan's delegation has a vested interest to not rock the boat, some would say with a high dependency on China, it puts them in a precarious situation to challenge China.

BTW, if you are asking the rest of the world to ignore china's genocide because your delegation said there is nothing there to see..then we can say the same of every grievance you file against us. They should be ignored too because our delegation also said so.


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## CriticalThinker02

rent4country said:


> Again, what does American behavior have to do with you selling out fellow Muslims and their genocide in China? Either you are the keeper of Muslims or you are a part-time and convenient gatekeeper of only SOME Muslim communities. Pakistan's delegation has a vested interest to not rock the boat, some would say with a high dependency on China, it puts them in a precarious situation to challenge China.
> 
> BTW, if you are asking the rest of the world to ignore china's genocide because your delegation said there is nothing there to see..then we can say the same of every grievance you file against us. They should be ignored too because our delegation also said so.



You're a broken record so I will repeat it again, your investigations holds no value to us as we have an open transparent relationship with China and we have sent our own delegations there and have done our own investigations regarding Xinjiang and we are completely 100% satisfied with the situation there and do not even consider it to be an issue, we are not asking you to do anything, you have a rivalry with China and you will use this issue as a political "victory points" in your bid to challenge the geopolitical and strategic reach of China, if you want to continue to wage war against China then go ahead and continue to do so just keep us out of it.

No Pakistani prime minister or political leader has ever claimed to the best of my knowledge that Pakistan "are the keeper of Muslims", we do not have the political clout and strategic and military strength to be considered one not yet at-least, and frankly the rest of the Muslim world doesn't consider us as well, we do however have always spoken in favour of oppressed Muslims where ever they may be and Dr Moeed Yusuf in my eyes is a very respectable and genuine fellow and if he says there are no issues and he is putting his reputation on the line by saying that than I believe him, and if Pakistan really was not concerned about the issues faced by the oppressed Muslims than we would have recognised Israel for monetary gains decades ago.


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## rent4country

Waqas said:


> You're a broken record so I will repeat it again, your investigations holds no value to us as we have an open transparent relationship with China and we have sent our own delegations there and have done our own investigations regarding Xinjiang and we are completely 100% satisfied with the situation there and do not even consider it to be an issue, we are not asking you to do anything, you have a rivalry with China and you will use this issue as a political "victory points" in your bid to challenge the geopolitical and strategic reach of China, if you want to continue to wage war against China then go ahead and continue to do so just keep us out of it.
> 
> No Pakistani prime minister or political leader has ever claimed to the best of my knowledge that Pakistan "are the keeper of Muslims", we do not have the political clout and strategic and military strength to be considered one not yet at-least, and frankly the rest of the Muslim world doesn't consider us as well, we do however have always spoken in favour of oppressed Muslims where ever they may be and Dr Moeed Yusuf in my eyes is a very respectable and genuine fellow and if he says there are no issues and he is putting his reputation on the line by saying that than I believe him, and if Pakistan really was not concerned about the issues faced by the oppressed Muslims than we would have recognised Israel for monetary gains decades ago.



I'm not a broken record- it's your selective outrage that is being called out. It's NOT JUST us, who has come to the conclusion that Muslims in China are facing genocide. There are ten's of investigations far and diverse that have come to the same conclusion. Yet your fixation with America somehow makes it okay for one set of Muslims to be ignored. It's you who acts as the keeper of Muslims, espousing your shock and horror for them in Palestine but then conveniently sells out on the Muslims in China- because some Pakistani politician said nothing here to see.

Feels like you look at the lives of Muslims from a prism of economics and national security...your motivation is not to be your brother's keeper, nope- you keep saying (in so many words), you guys don't like China, well, I'm going to take their side. making those Chinese Muslims expendable.

Is the UN lying, is everyone lying. When 9 out 10 doctors say you have cancer, you go with the one that said otherwise. come on ...









U.N. says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps


(This version of Aug. 10 story corrects name of expert in paragraph 12, fixes typographical error in paragraph 3)




www.reuters.com













China Suppression Of Uighur Minorities Meets U.N. Definition Of Genocide, Report Says


NPR's Scott Simon speaks with China expert Adrian Zenz about his research uncovering evidence of birth prevention and mass female sterilization of Uighur Muslims in China.




www.npr.org


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## Itachi

Silverblaze said:


> Comparison with india will always be there. Why should a hindutvadi qualify to even utter a word on muslim rights? Its like Nazis complaining about anti antisemitism in the US.
> 
> Now in Pakistani context. Has China killed a million muslims as was the case in 1947? Did China invade East Pakistan? Is China fanning terrorism in Pakistan? Is China occupying kashmir? Is it bombing it like gaza?
> 
> If the choice is between China and the ideological and civilizational enemy of Pakistan and muslims which is by far the hindu state of india one would easily choose China.
> 
> And yes China is an iron brother. It has proven it time and gain.



China has probably killed upwards of one million Han since 1947......you seem to forget that Xinjiang used to be free....it was called East Turkestan. China took over it and started oppressing the population by any means necessary, including importing Han Chinese from Eastern China to Western China.

This is what the Chinese Embassy (in the US) had to say about Uyghurs:







lol......see how they call Uyghur women "baby making machines"?? That's how despicable the Chinese mindset is. And there is no "extremism or terrorism" in East Turkestan.......those guys tried to fight for their freedom. Still are...

You can be a good little slave to your "iron brothers"....who don't even think about you as a ally or a "iron brother"...






That's the same guy who's saying that Uyghurs are all fine^ See how he doesn't even mention Pakistan?? That's how all Chinese think of Pakistan. 

You and Pakistani like you are just high of govt. "iron brother" propaganda.....while China keeps you under debt and under their thumb. 

Here he say's that "allies are more like blood suckers". 

He literally called your nation a "blood sucker". Yet you consider his nation a "iron brother". AHAHAHAHAHA







Here's the same guy telling a Turk how Uyghurs got kicked out of their "ancestral lands".......every Chinese knows about the oppression against Uyghurs....and they're proud of that.....it's only low iq people like you who like to bury their heads in sand like an ostrich. 






Meanwhile.....Uyghurs are like this:






More Evidence:





__





Uighurs forced to eat pork as China expands Xinjiang pig farms


Former detainees claim that the forcible feeding of pork is most rampant in re-education camps and detention centres. An April 2020 report said that the Xinjiang government has signed a deal to open a hog farm for local consumption in Kashgar, an area that is 90-percent Muslim Uighur [File: How...



defence.pk





There are literally hundreds of similar threads on PDF explaining the plight of Uyghurs....you really got be a idiot to not see that.


Waqas said:


> Do you see Chinese Tanks, Sniper Rifles, Guns and Fighter Jets killing Muslims? because I don't but I do see American provided Tanks, Sniper Rifles, Guns and Fighter Jets used indiscriminately in killing unarmed innocent Muslims in gaza and else where, an open air prison with out any future funded, politically and militarily protected by the American empire, we are done fighting your wars for you, the biggest mistake we made was side with you by cutting down the USSR and making you a unipolar power, we will not make the same mistake twice, the American power needs to be cut down for true world peace to have a chance.
> 
> Your tax payer money killed her, the facist regime that your country supports.



Read my post...stop being a ostrich who likes burying his head in the sand...

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## striver44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369785487582392328


----------



## leviathan

striver44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369785487582392328


Only Low IQ retarded will believe this empty lie, You need a fucking team with multiple doctor/nurse/specialist and million dollar equipment/lab/x-raw to even have a chance to make it work! I bet there's less than a hundred doctor in your country that can perform this operation given how backward and shitty the medical condition you guy have.


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## Iñigo

"Are you are saying the tens of investigations (!?) the hundreds of eyewitness accounts (!?) the UN, and practically every civilized country (!?) that has found genocide (!!!) or severe targeted actions taking place against Muslims in China, as being a lie?"

Yes, of course

The word "genocide" is used with complete frivolity, it's completely outrageous

-In this bar there is no cold beer, this is unbearable, this is ... a genocide

-we, the west empire, have unleashed Chaos and Terror all over the face of the earth either directly or through subcontracted thugs ... well, these killings are things that happen, life is like that, c'est la vie, and people are very sensitive and cannot endure a joke

This is the West mind, a complete moral ruin, a colossal drunk and intoxicated narcissism

The West Empire is a world of fantasies









Allegory of the cave - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org













The Thirteenth Floor - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





The West Empire is a big kindergarten


----------



## Iñigo

And

And I don't like garlic soup

And therefore the garlic soup is anti-Semitic


----------



## xizhimen

A tourist comes across a small town,Gulja, in northern Xinjiang, is Surprised at how developed and lively this remote tiny rural town is, everyone enjoys their lives peacefully and the tourist says he feels that he doesn't want to leave.

Because Xinjiang is 2 hours behind Beijing, and the guy shows the time, it's passed the midnight, but the small town is still packed with people.

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## xizhimen

The west and Indians are feeling extremly sorry that China destroyed every Uighur traditional mud house even in the remotest and tiniest towns and villages and completely genocided Uighurs housing tradtions.

Their hearts are bleeding for unlucky Uighur people, who have to leave their wonderful adobe houses and move to earthquake proof government houses with untraditional running water, gas, electricity, wifi , shower, flush toilet and heating...they have to change their donkeys to private cars cause modern highways are everywhere now in Xinjiang and they don't allow donkeys in, so cruel!! genocide of Uighurs thousands of years old donkey transportation tradition is another crime against Uighur people.

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## StraightEdge

Excellent, amazing development in China. 
@*xizhimen *no need to bring India into discussion here, I don't think we Indians have anything to do with Xinjiang issue. That's an issue with China and west, leave India out of that debate.


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## xizhimen

No place can develop and grow this fast if the whole bunch of the local population are under persecution or lockup, why many people here just can't get this simple common sense...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Xinjiang region beefs up wind, solar power generation





__





Xinjiang region beefs up wind, solar power generation - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn


----------



## Team Blue

Iñigo said:


> And
> 
> And I don't like garlic soup
> 
> And therefore the garlic soup is anti-Semitic


I don't know about anti-Semitic but I am certain not liking garlic soup means your judgement is questionable 



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Xinjiang region beefs up wind, solar power generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xinjiang region beefs up wind, solar power generation - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn


This is the stuff where the U.S. is really falling behind. We could stand to look at how China's making use of their renewable energy sources .


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## CAPRICORN-88




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## shanlung

When even the poor people of China never got to worry about any meals as even then , they knew they could afford good wholesome meals even if no top grade beef or pork or caviar.

*And at that, NO MORE POOR PEOPLE IN CHINA

Contrast this with the all too common scenes of average Murican cities
and getting worser and worserest

WHERE AMERICANS TOGETHER WITH MURICANS GOT TO LINE UP FOR FOOD PACKAGES OR GO VERY HUNGRY
AND KICKED OUT OF HOUSING AS THEY CANNOT PAY THE RENT












AND WHY?

How Murica lost so badly to China*


“Do you think China’s doing that, letting political correctness get in the way of nurturing their best and brightest?” Maher continued. *“Do you think Chinese colleges are offering courses in ‘The Philosophy of Star Trek, ‘The Sociology of Seinfeld,’ and ‘Surviving the Coming Zombie Apocalypse’? Those are real and so is China. And they are eating our lunch. And believe me, in an hour, they’ll be hungry again.”

“We lost,” Maher declared.

 *









Bill Maher Details How America Has ‘Lost’ To China On HBO’s ‘Real Time’


“You’re not going to win the battle for the 21st century if you are a silly country,” exclaimed Maher.




decider.com






*🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳 *WANG SUI WANG WANG SUI 萬歲 萬 萬歲*🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳*

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## sinait

xizhimen said:


> A tourist comes across a small town,Gulja, in northern Xinjiang, is Surprised at how developed and lively this remote tiny rural town is, everyone enjoys their lives peacefully and the tourist says he feels that he doesn't want to leave.
> 
> Because Xinjiang is 2 hours behind Beijing, and the guy shows the time, it's passed the midnight, but the small town is still packed with people.


Is this the same place, Yili, mentioned in the song 可可託海的牧羊人.
.

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## xizhimen

*I recorded a cop in Xinjiang and.... *

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## xizhimen

*Hundreds of cars trapped in heavy snowstorm were rescued by the Police in Xinjiang*
In south China is already full spring, but in Xinjiang it is still frigid deep winter..


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## striver44

*China still blocking EU visit to Uighur 'genocide' region*



MEPs, who still have to bless the EU-China business treaty, honoured Uighur activist Ilham Tohti in 2019 (Photo: europarl.europa.eu)
By ANDREW RETTMAN

BRUSSELS, TODAY, 07:16
China is refusing to let EU diplomats conduct a "meaningful" visit to its Xinjiang province, while saying new EU sanctions over its persecution of the Uighur minority there are based on "lies".
The fact-finding trip, by EU ambassadors in Beijing, has been under discussion since 2019 and was put on hold last year due to the pandemic.



No EU access to "convicted criminal", China's EU envoy, Zhang Ming, said (Photo: Chinese embassy)
But with the virus abating, China is now refusing to let them go because they want to meet a prize-winning Uighur activist who is serving a life sentence on charges of separatism.
Europe's "expectations include ... access to specific locations, and the terms of access to those locations, as well as a visit with European Parliament Sakharov-prize recipient Ilham Tohti," an EU spokesperson told EUobserver on Tuesday (16 March).
"EU ambassadors would be visiting - should the conditions for a meaningful visit be acceptable to us - without any presumptions or partiality, but precisely to establish the facts," the spokesperson added.
The impasse over the Xinjiang trip comes as EU countries prepare to impose their first-ever sanctions on China since the Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989.
The visa-bans and asset-freezes on four Chinese officials and one entity, to be agreed next week, are tied to Uighur abuses.
These include rape and forced sterilisation of Uighur women, according to investigations by leading media and NGOs, such as the BBC and Human Rights Watch (HRW).

They also include cutting off Uighur women's hair to make wigs, forced labour, and cultural brainwashing in mass-scale internment camps.
"As regards the situation in Xinjiang, we have spoken out clearly and repeatedly on the situation of Uighurs, expressing grave concerns about political re-education camps, surveillance, and restrictions on freedom of religion and belief," the EU spokesperson said.
But for Zhang Ming, China's EU ambassador, all that was just "lies ... disinformation ... [and] fake news" spread by "China-haters".
"Sanctions based on lies could be interpreted as deliberately undermining China's security," Zhang told a video-conference held by the European Policy Centre, a think-tank in Brussels, also on Tuesday.
"We ask the EU side to think twice. If some insist on confrontation, we will not back down," he said.
"Countries like the US, the UK, and France have established deradicalisation centres or correction centres [for Islamist terrorists]. China's measures are not entirely different," the ambassador also claimed.
"We have agreed all the requirements except one," Zhang added, on the EU-Xinjiang trip.
"They [EU ambassadors] insist to have a meeting with one criminal [Tohti] imprisoned and convicted under Chinese law. This is unacceptable. I'm so sorry," he said.
*EU business*
Meanwhile, EU countries, last year, agreed a new investment treaty with China despite what many independent observers have called the "genocide" in Xinjiang.
It still has to be ratified by the European Parliament to enter into life.
Opposition is growing among MEPs due to the Uighur abuses, as well as China's crackdown on pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong.
But for Zhang, any criticism of Beijing's actions in Hong Kong was also "meddling" in China's "internal affairs".
The diplomat claimed Europe was no different because the EU parliament recently lifted the immunity of pro-independence MEPs from the Spanish region of Catalonia.
He also accused the EU of "double standards" on Hong-Kong protesters because Europe had criticised the mob that stormed the Capitol in January to try to overturn democratic elections in the US.
"I take the concerns of some MEPs seriously and talk to them frankly," Zhang said of his EU diplomacy.
But he noted that EU "business leaders" and top European Commission officials were happy to decouple trade from human rights the way Beijing wanted to.
"The investment agreement is not a package solution to all the differences between China and the EU, still less a tool to exert pressure," Zhang said.
"Economic issues should not be politicised," he said.
*Strategic appeasement?*
Zooming out into the geopolitical arena, EU Council president Charles Michel recently accused China of abusing coronavirus vaccine exports to increase influence in poor countries.
The US has also urged Europe to cool its China-trade love-affair for the sake of transatlantic relations amid mounting global rivalry.
But Zhang waved aside Michel's concerns the way he did those on Uighurs and Hong Kong.
When foreign leaders greeted Chinese vaccines at airports amid fanfare, this was a "natural expression of emotions", rather than a quid pro quo, he said.
The US was trying to "build circles" around China the same way it tried to contain the Soviet Union in the Cold War, he noted.
"The EU should not form an anti-China front with the US," he said.
There were "sensible voices" in Europe calling for EU "strategic autonomy" from America and "hopefully the EU will act in this spirit," Zhang added on Tuesday.
But for at least one voice, the ambassador's claims on Uighurs, Hong Kong, and the rest were about as convincing as "flat-earther nonsense".
"Human-rights groups are the true 'China lovers', by calling on the abusive authorities to respect the fundamental rights of all people in China," Andrew Stroehlein, an HRW spokesman, told EUobserver.
"The government in Beijing, which is committing grave abuses against its own people, absurdly calls them 'China haters'. If you love your people, respect their rights," Stroehlein said.
*SHARE ARTICLE*

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## xizhimen

*China on Dutch Uyghur motion, EU Xinjiang invite, EU not interest in visiting*
China again invites EU to visit Xinjiang, EU set the precodition that China allows EU to have* full access to all prisons in Xinjiang and interview prisoners.* otherwise EU won't interest in visiting.


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## striver44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372081465593196548


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## xizhimen

striver44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372081465593196548


He must be very sad that the development level of Xinjiang will soon overtake average US states.


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## striver44

development in Xinjiang

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371516921972199443


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## xizhimen

striver44 said:


> development in Xinjiang
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371516921972199443


People working? what's wrong with this video? US people don't work? are you out of your mind?


----------



## striver44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371575866011049986


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## xizhimen

Xinjiang has 2,4000 mosques, on average one mosque for every 530people, the ratio is even higher than that of Turkey.

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## xizhimen

Xinjiang people's working footage from different reports

Forced larbor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371516921972199443


Working to change the environment of the home desert village


----------



## beijingwalker

*Ambassadors of Palestine and Saudi Arabia talk about their experiences in Xinjiang*

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## beijingwalker

beijingwalker said:


> *Ambassadors of Palestine and Saudi Arabia talk about their experiences in Xinjiang*


Propaganda? Are you saying that they are not the ambassadors of Palestine and Saudi Arabia? Ambassadors atitudes always represent the stance of the governments they represent.

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## beijingwalker

What Xinjiang younger generation dress up like now, street video in today's Xinjiang


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen




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## striver44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374911341744427011


----------



## PeaceGen

CNN finds stranded Uyghur children in China - CNN Video


Amnesty International reports that China's policies towards ethnic Uyghur Muslims have split up thousands of families, as some children are prevented from leaving China's Xinjiang region to be with their parents living abroad. The US and other countries have labeled China's treatment of Uyghurs...




edition.cnn.com





*
World News (15 Videos)*

*CNN finds stranded Uyghur children in China*
Amnesty International reports that China's policies towards ethnic Uyghur Muslims have split up thousands of families, as some children are prevented from leaving China's Xinjiang region to be with their parents living abroad. The US and other countries have labeled China's treatment of Uyghurs as genocide. Beijing strongly denies the accusations, insisting that its actions are justified to combat religious extremism and prevent terrorism. With permission from Uyghur parents desperate for answers, CNN's David Culver traveled to the heavily surveilled Xinjiang region in search of their children left behind.
Source: CNN

The dad of one of these captive kids says on camera "why does a country treat innocent people like this?"
And i think it's a completely valid question.

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## striver44

Wow, very evil.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

That is what happens to separatists. Meanwhile, Xinjiang people getting lovely free housing built by government.

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## PeaceGen

these people are far from seperatists.. and free homes are of little comfort if one has to live under oppression, and in fear of being put in concentration camps or other "facilities".

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## striver44

What good are free homes when you're separated from your kid and your wife probably fucked by a stranger in camps.

Very evil.

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## PeaceGen

Tai Hai Chen said:


> That is what happens to separatists. Meanwhile, Xinjiang people getting lovely free housing built by government.



and aren't you being a little hypocrytical at least? you live in free Canada.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PeaceGen said:


> and aren't you being a little hypocrytical at least? you live in free Canada.



I have lived in China in 2019.


striver44 said:


> What good are free homes when you're separated from your kid and your wife probably fucked by a stranger in camps.
> 
> Very evil.



Nothing you can do about it. Xinjiang separatists are wiped out by PLA.

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## PeaceGen

Tai Hai Chen said:


> I have lived in China in 2019.



Yet you speak from the comfort of a truly free country.
Even though you post nothing but pro-Chinese-government nonsense, i doubt the Chinese government would let you do that if you were currently living in China. You are not them. They want to see published only what they themselves say.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Nothing you can do about it. Xinjiang separatists are wiped out by PLA.



(1) These are not separatists
(2) Separatists should be offered self-governance.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PeaceGen said:


> Yet you speak from the comfort of a truly free country.



Ying and yang. No country is truly free. 









London, Ont., NICU nurse who travelled to D.C. has been fired ‘with cause’ | Globalnews.ca


Kristen Nagle made headlines earlier this month following a publicized trip across the border that went against Canadian government directives to avoid non-essential travel.




globalnews.ca






PeaceGen said:


> (1) These are not separatists
> (2) Separatists should be offered self-governance.



1. Yes they are.

2. Xinjing is autonomous region. They have self governance.

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## striver44

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Nothing you can do about it. Xinjiang separatists are wiped out by PLA.


it's not my job to do anything about it.


----------



## PeaceGen

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Ying and yang. No country is truly free.



My country is. And so is Canada. Plenty of other countries are too.




Tai Hai Chen said:


> 1. Yes they are.
> 
> 2. Xinjing is autonomous region. They have self governance.



Now you're contradicting yourself.


----------



## Beast

PeaceGen said:


> CNN finds stranded Uyghur children in China - CNN Video
> 
> 
> Amnesty International reports that China's policies towards ethnic Uyghur Muslims have split up thousands of families, as some children are prevented from leaving China's Xinjiang region to be with their parents living abroad. The US and other countries have labeled China's treatment of Uyghurs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *World News (15 Videos)*
> 
> *CNN finds stranded Uyghur children in China*
> Amnesty International reports that China's policies towards ethnic Uyghur Muslims have split up thousands of families, as some children are prevented from leaving China's Xinjiang region to be with their parents living abroad. The US and other countries have labeled China's treatment of Uyghurs as genocide. Beijing strongly denies the accusations, insisting that its actions are justified to combat religious extremism and prevent terrorism. With permission from Uyghur parents desperate for answers, CNN's David Culver traveled to the heavily surveilled Xinjiang region in search of their children left behind.
> Source: CNN
> 
> The dad of one of these captive kids says on camera "why does a country treat innocent people like this?"
> And i think it's a completely valid question.


Lol.. CNN? Seriously?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PeaceGen said:


> My country is. And so is Canada. Plenty of other countries are too.



You white people think everything either black or white. In your Star Wars movie, light side of the force and dark side of the force are separate. In Chinese culture light and dark are mixed. In light there is dark. In dark there is light.


----------



## PeaceGen

Beast said:


> Lol.. CNN? Seriously?


Yeah, seriously. I think CNN is a lot more objective and honest than Chinese state media.

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## shi12jun



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## Beast

PeaceGen said:


> Yeah, seriously. I think CNN is a lot more objective and honest than Chinese state media.


You are absolutely biased. There is no facts on your statement.





__





CNN.com - Experts: Iraq has tons of chemical weapons - September 4, 2002






edition.cnn.com





We all know the BS of Iraq WMD after all..









Opinion: Pakistan sheltered Bin Laden? Prove it - CNN


Peter Bergen says a New York Times reporter claims Pakistan new Bin Laden was hiding in Abbottabad. That would be big news--but it's not true




edition.cnn.com





The last straw will be you insulting all Pakistanis as terrorist for agreeing and claim CNN has credibility since they report Pakistan ISI shelter Osama.

CNN report of Uyghur in Xinjiang is as fake as their coverage of Pakistanis ISI shelter Osama bin Laden.

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## Aryzin

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Ying and yang. No country is truly free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London, Ont., NICU nurse who travelled to D.C. has been fired ‘with cause’ | Globalnews.ca
> 
> 
> Kristen Nagle made headlines earlier this month following a publicized trip across the border that went against Canadian government directives to avoid non-essential travel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> globalnews.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Yes they are.
> 
> 2. Xinjing is autonomous region. They have self governance.




These are Tajik people. Not separatists.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Pictures or it's fake.


----------



## Aryzin

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Pictures or it's fake.


It says it it in the title!


----------



## beijingwalker

As if US doesn't have boarding schools, they can find hundreds of millions of Han Children "being separated" from their parents as well, lol..

Xinjiang boarding school in poor rural regions

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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> As if US doesn't have boarding schools, they can find hundreds of millions of Han Children "being separated" from their parents as well, lol..
> 
> Xinjiang boarding school in poor rural regions




FAKE

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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> What Xinjiang younger generation dress up like now, street video in today's Xinjiang



FAKE this is Beijing not Xinjiang you can see CCTV building in the back ground

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> FAKE this is Beijing not Xinjiang you can see CCTV building in the back ground



There are lots of CCTV buildings in Xinjiang.


striver44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374911341744427011



Separatists will continue to be separated from their families. They are cowards for fleeing to Turkey.

Development of Tashkurgan, China's westernmost town. Google map satellite images confirm.

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## striver44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375025869714956289


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

striver44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375025869714956289



How on earth they have 6 kids? China only allows 2 kids at the moment.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Kashgar, China's westernmost major city. Now with a population of almost a million.


----------



## Dalit

PeaceGen said:


> My country is. And so is Canada. Plenty of other countries are too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're contradicting yourself.



LOL at your country is free.

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## beijingwalker

Several Uighur buddies made a song and sing it to Pompeo

Pompeo Let me sing a folk song


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen




----------



## aziqbal

*The Uyghur Genocide and China*
March 24, 2021
Nathan Wunderli ‘22
Sports Editor

As part of the second week of HRP’s Human Rights Month, UVA Law was pleased to hear from two speakers on the current Chinese attempt at genocide of the Uyghur people. Zubayra Shamseden is a human rights activist, organizer, and Chinese Language Outreach Coordinator at the Uyghur Human Rights Project based in Washington D.C. Dolkun Isa is a widely-recognized political activist and current president of the World Uyghur Congress and recipient of the National Endowment for Democracy's Democracy Award.





Pictured: Uyghur people protest outside the UN headquarters in Genevea in November 2018. Photo courtesy of: Salvatore Di Nolfi/EP
*Who are the Uyghurs?*
By the estimates of the Chinese government, the Uyghurs are 11 million strong and live in East Turkestan, otherwise known as the Xinjiang province of China. Uyghurs themselves estimate they number around 20 million people. Dating back to the 8th century, the Uyghurs have been predominantly Muslim, with traces of Christianity and Buddhism as well. They have their own language and customs, completely different than those in China. According to Ms. Shamseden, they are rather moderate Muslims.

*What is Going On?*
Much like Tibet, on paper, the East Turkestan region is independent from China. The reality is far from that. The Chinese government has employed several strategies, all with the goal of wiping out the Uyghur people, culture, and language and assimilating them into China. While China says they are employing bilingual education programs, in reality the education they use contains very little to none of the Uyghur people’s language. Additionally, while East Turkestan used to be over 90 percent Uyghur, the Chinese government has intentionally implanted Chinese people into the region so that it is now 50 percent Uyghur and 50 percent Chinese. While these attempts at getting rid of the Uyghur people are bad, it is no where close to the worst thing the Chinese government is doing.
An estimated 2-3 million Uyghur people are currently being detained in political “re-education camps.” These camps are numerous and located throughout China. As if there was any doubt of what goes on at these horrific sites, a single site was reported to have purchased 2,768 police batons and 550 electric cattle prods, among other things used for manipulation and torture. The people are typically kept alive, but are brutally dehumanized and tortured. The prisoners are taken from all walks of Uyghur life, including thousands of intellectuals that are currently detained or missing.
Uyghurs get detained and sent to camps for what the Chinese government dubs as examples of “extremism.” For instance, watching a Western movie could get you detained. Communicating with people outside of China or traveling outside of China can get you detained. Practicing the Islamic faith, even something so simple as owning a prayer mat, can get you detained. Refusing to allow government officials to sleep in your bed with you, eat your food, or live in your house? Detained. Reading up on Uyghur culture and history? Good luck at camp. Not only can all these things that we take for granted get you sent away to a “re-education” camp and tortured, but the Chinese government makes it hard to get away with any of these things through extensive surveillance. The minute you leave your house, you are being watched or followed, either by a person or by technology.

*What Can We Do to Help?*
The Uyghur people are being crushed and abused by China, and it won’t be too long before China’s forceful assimilation strategies wipe out the Uyghur people for good. Fortunately, there are some measures we can take to help, even as American law students. You can 1) Contact your senators and urge them to co-sponsor the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act, 2) Sign various petitions (contact UVA Law’s HRP Rep. Alex Karahalios (ank3jf@virginia.edu) for more details), including one to refuse to hold the Olympic Games in China in 2022 unless the camps are closed, or you can 3) donate to the UHRP. Every time there is a human rights crisis, the mantra is “never again.” Unfortunately, never again is happening right now to the Uyghur people, and it is now or never to respond.
---
_nw7cz@virginia.edu_



The protesters waved sky blue flags of Uyghur separatists' self-proclaimed state of East Turkestan as they gathered in Istanbul's historic old town AFP/Adem ALTAN


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## striver44

Only monsters separate little kids from their parents and left to die while portraying everything is OK.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## T-SaGe

Tai Hai Chen said:


> 2. Xinjing is autonomous region. They have self governance.


There is something I am curious about and I would be glad if a Chinese member here could explain to us the legal framework of this local government? What are the powers of the CPC Committee secretary over the region? Are the local ethnic Chairman elected by the people or are they appointed by the party? Do they have their own law enforcement agencies or judicial bodies? Or is there just a cultural autonomy? I will be glad if you explain this local governments with legal aspects when you have time. We know very little about Chinese democracy.


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## Iñigo

"We know very little about Chinese democracy"

!?

China ... Merito-cracy

USA ... Pluto-cracy

Portugal ... Demo-cracy


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## CAPRICORN-88

_Now with the *Suez Canal blocked off *by a huge cargo vessel freak accident maybe up to weeks or a month, UK, EU will be highly stressed and supply chain network will be in deep shit. Up to USD10 billion trade per day passed thru the Suez Canal. 
Was this accident deliberate? 
Are all these genocidal accusations in Xinjiang by US and allies just a coincidence? THINK. 

Maybe EU will now relook at and starts to appreaciate China BRI the highly effective overland route. 
 

That is what USA wanted to do to China Maritime Trade Route and this is a simulation of what happens in a naval blockage in Strait of Malacca now that USN and allies cannot do it in the South China Sea._


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

T-SaGe said:


> There is something I am curious about and I would be glad if a Chinese member here could explain to us the legal framework of this local government? What are the powers of the CPC Committee secretary over the region? Are the local ethnic Chairman elected by the people or are they appointed by the party? Do they have their own law enforcement agencies or judicial bodies? Or is there just a cultural autonomy? I will be glad if you explain this local governments with legal aspects when you have time. We know very little about Chinese democracy.



Xi is emperor.

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## flowerfan2020

aziqbal said:


> *The Uyghur Genocide and China*
> March 24, 2021
> Nathan Wunderli ‘22
> Sports Editor
> 
> As part of the second week of HRP’s Human Rights Month, UVA Law was pleased to hear from two speakers on the current Chinese attempt at genocide of the Uyghur people. Zubayra Shamseden is a human rights activist, organizer, and Chinese Language Outreach Coordinator at the Uyghur Human Rights Project based in Washington D.C. Dolkun Isa is a widely-recognized political activist and current president of the World Uyghur Congress and recipient of the National Endowment for Democracy's Democracy Award.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pictured: Uyghur people protest outside the UN headquarters in Genevea in November 2018. Photo courtesy of: Salvatore Di Nolfi/EP
> *Who are the Uyghurs?*
> By the estimates of the Chinese government, the Uyghurs are 11 million strong and live in East Turkestan, otherwise known as the Xinjiang province of China. Uyghurs themselves estimate they number around 20 million people. Dating back to the 8th century, the Uyghurs have been predominantly Muslim, with traces of Christianity and Buddhism as well. They have their own language and customs, completely different than those in China. According to Ms. Shamseden, they are rather moderate Muslims.
> 
> *What is Going On?*
> Much like Tibet, on paper, the East Turkestan region is independent from China. The reality is far from that. The Chinese government has employed several strategies, all with the goal of wiping out the Uyghur people, culture, and language and assimilating them into China. While China says they are employing bilingual education programs, in reality the education they use contains very little to none of the Uyghur people’s language. Additionally, while East Turkestan used to be over 90 percent Uyghur, the Chinese government has intentionally implanted Chinese people into the region so that it is now 50 percent Uyghur and 50 percent Chinese. While these attempts at getting rid of the Uyghur people are bad, it is no where close to the worst thing the Chinese government is doing.
> An estimated 2-3 million Uyghur people are currently being detained in political “re-education camps.” These camps are numerous and located throughout China. As if there was any doubt of what goes on at these horrific sites, a single site was reported to have purchased 2,768 police batons and 550 electric cattle prods, among other things used for manipulation and torture. The people are typically kept alive, but are brutally dehumanized and tortured. The prisoners are taken from all walks of Uyghur life, including thousands of intellectuals that are currently detained or missing.
> Uyghurs get detained and sent to camps for what the Chinese government dubs as examples of “extremism.” For instance, watching a Western movie could get you detained. Communicating with people outside of China or traveling outside of China can get you detained. Practicing the Islamic faith, even something so simple as owning a prayer mat, can get you detained. Refusing to allow government officials to sleep in your bed with you, eat your food, or live in your house? Detained. Reading up on Uyghur culture and history? Good luck at camp. Not only can all these things that we take for granted get you sent away to a “re-education” camp and tortured, but the Chinese government makes it hard to get away with any of these things through extensive surveillance. The minute you leave your house, you are being watched or followed, either by a person or by technology.
> 
> *What Can We Do to Help?*
> The Uyghur people are being crushed and abused by China, and it won’t be too long before China’s forceful assimilation strategies wipe out the Uyghur people for good. Fortunately, there are some measures we can take to help, even as American law students. You can 1) Contact your senators and urge them to co-sponsor the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act, 2) Sign various petitions (contact UVA Law’s HRP Rep. Alex Karahalios (ank3jf@virginia.edu) for more details), including one to refuse to hold the Olympic Games in China in 2022 unless the camps are closed, or you can 3) donate to the UHRP. Every time there is a human rights crisis, the mantra is “never again.” Unfortunately, never again is happening right now to the Uyghur people, and it is now or never to respond.
> ---
> _nw7cz@virginia.edu_
> View attachment 728545
> The protesters waved sky blue flags of Uyghur separatists' self-proclaimed state of East Turkestan as they gathered in Istanbul's historic old town AFP/Adem ALTAN


Just a couple pictures of prisoner but you can claimed as genocide? 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=291922559155068

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## hualushui



Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## casual

@PeaceGen cnn exposed

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## Menthol

The West seems to care much about Asians outside their border.

While Asians inside their border are abused and punched daily.


It's funny they say they care much about Uighurs...

By boycotting their product, destroying their economy, and starving them to death.


I don't know what to say.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Beast said:


> You are absolutely biased. There is no facts on your statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CNN.com - Experts: Iraq has tons of chemical weapons - September 4, 2002
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We all know the BS of Iraq WMD after all..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opinion: Pakistan sheltered Bin Laden? Prove it - CNN
> 
> 
> Peter Bergen says a New York Times reporter claims Pakistan new Bin Laden was hiding in Abbottabad. That would be big news--but it's not true
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The last straw will be you insulting all Pakistanis as terrorist for agreeing and claim CNN has credibility since they report Pakistan ISI shelter Osama.
> 
> CNN report of Uyghur in Xinjiang is as fake as their coverage of Pakistanis ISI shelter Osama bin Laden.



_*CNN also reported thaf in every 8 second a female is attacked in China. *

We all nearly died laughing but the dudes in USA and elsewhere believe it. 

   _

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## Metal 0-1

beijingwalker said:


> As if US doesn't have boarding schools, they can find hundreds of millions of Han Children "being separated" from their parents as well, lol..
> 
> Xinjiang boarding school in poor rural regions





casual said:


> @PeaceGen cnn exposed


Why don't you CCP bots share neutral sources rather than your stupid commie propaganda.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SBUS-CXK

Metal 0-1 said:


> Why don't you CCP bots share neutral sources rather than your stupid commie propaganda.


Why do you think CNN and BBC are neutral?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aziqbal

*Uyghur Activists in Exile Emboldened by Beijing’s Attacks *
By Asim Kashgarian
March 26, 2021 05:40 PM




A protester from the Uyghur community living in Turkey stands with flags in the Beyazit mosque during a protest against the visit of China's Foreign Minister to Turkey, in Istanbul on March 25, 2021. 
WASHINGTON - Uyghur and Kazakh women activists who have been at the forefront of international criticism of Beijing’s repressive policies in Xinjiang say they are not backing down after Chinese officials publicly smeared their character to try to discredit them.
Several women have become outspoken activists in exile, telling international media that they endured rape, torture, forced sterilization and indoctrination by Chinese authorities in internment camps.
In recent weeks, China’s officials have accused them of having affairs and sexually transmitted diseases and committing loan fraud as evidence of bad character. The effort to disprove the women’s accounts comes as Beijing faces growing international pressure over its four-year crackdown against the Turkic ethnic groups.



Uyghurs women take part in a protest during the visit of Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Berlin, Germany, Sept. 1, 2020.
But some of the women say the criticism has only emboldened them to speak out more about these abuses.
“It is unbelievable that in order to invalidate my accounts of rape, torture and forced sterilization, Chinese officials said I was infertile,” said Tursunay Ziyawudun, 42, a Uyghur camp survivor.
Ziyawudun was allowed by the Chinese government to travel for only one month to Kazakhstan to stay with her husband in September 2019 after she had been released from an internment camp in Xinjiang. She moved to the U.S. state of Virginia a year later. She told VOA that her uterus had to be removed after arriving in the U.S. because of sustained injury from abuses in Xinjiang.
“On four different occasions, I was taken to an interrogation room, where I was beaten. My private part was electrocuted unbearably by an electric baton and I was gang-raped,” Ziyawudun told VOA, adding that some of her fellow female detainees never came back to the cell after their visit to the interrogation room, and those who did return were told to keep quiet.
Beijing has publicly called the Uyghur women activists “liars” and “actors” fabricating “fake news” on Xinjiang.



FILE - Xu Guixiang, the deputy propaganda head of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region for China's Communist Party, speaks during a press conference at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Beijing, March 18, 2021.
On February 18, Xu Guixiang, the deputy director-general of the Publicity Department of Xinjiang, called Ziyawudun’s accusations “sheer nonsense.” At a press conference in Beijing, Xu portrayed Ziyawudun as a tool of China’s enemies and made allegations concerning her marriage history and supposed divorce over infertility.
“After leaving the country, in order to gain the refugee status, she was willing to be the 'actress' and manipulated by anti-China forces,” Xu told reporters.
Some China observers and rights activists say they are not surprised that China’s Communist Party (CCP) is attacking the character of its critics. They say the CCP continues to prevent independent, outside groups from investigating claims of abuse made by Uyghurs and others.
“These accusations often are accompanied by other ad hominem attacks. All of these are efforts to diminish criticisms of the CCP overseas,” said Anastasia Lin, a senior fellow at the Canada-based Raoul Wallenberg Human Rights Center.



FILE - Elijan Anayat, spokesperson of the Information Office of the People's Government of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, answers a question at a press conference in Beijing on Jan. 11, 2021.
At the same press conference in Beijing last month, Elijan Anayat, a spokesperson for the Xinjiang regional government, attacked Gulbahar Haitwaji, another Uyghur activist who has accused China of torture and inhumane cruelty against Uyghurs stemming from her two years in the country’s re-education camps.
“When she lived in China, she had affairs with other people and was exposed by her neighbor.” Anayat told the news conference. He further questioned Haitwaji’s integrity and accused her of membership in a “terrorist organization” — the World Uyghur Congress, an exile group based in London whose leaders have testified before the U.S. Congress and the United Nations.
Haitwaji, 55, a mother of two, currently lives in France and recounted details of her detention in internment camps from 2017 to 2019 in a book, "Survivor of the Chinese Gulag.” Haitwaji said she was chained to her bed for 20 days and witnessed similar inhumane treatment against other Uyghur women by camp officials in Karamay, a northern city in Xinjiang.
“I told truthfully what I have witnessed in the camps in the book, and now unable to invalidate my accounts, they [Chinese officials] come after me with baseless character attacks,” Haitwaji said last month in the interview with Radio Free Asia while strongly rejecting Anayat’s attacks.
Zumret Dawut, 38, is yet another Uyghur woman smeared by Beijing. Chinese officials have characterized her as someone with “inferior character,” while denying that she was sterilized or was ever held in internment camps.
“Everyone knows about her,” Xu said last month in Beijing, “she’s lazy and likes comfort. Her private life is chaotic, and her neighbors say that she committed adultery while in China.”



FILE - Female members of the Muslim Uyghur minority chant slogans and wave flags of East Turkestan as they demonstrate to ask for news of their relatives near China's consulate in Istanbul on March 8, 2021.
Dawut told VOA that Xu’s attacks were baseless and proved her activism has helped further expose China’s stringent policies in Xinjiang. She said she was kept in an internment camp in Urumqi in 2018 for more than two months until her Pakistani husband secured her release. Camp authorities, according to her, forced her and 200 other Uyghur women to undergo sterilization surgery in late 2018 at Urumqi county hospital.
“I had spoken facts about rights abuses against me and my people in East Turkestan. That is why China is trying to silence me with character attacks,” Dawut said, adding that she would continue telling about Beijing’s abuses in East Turkestan, a preferred term used by Uyghurs for Xinjiang.
Tim Grose, an assistant professor of China studies at Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology in Terre Haute, Indiana, said it was unlikely that the tactic by Chinese diplomats and state-media against these women can distract international attention from reports of human rights violations in Xinjiang.
“This tactic tries to deflect attention from the serious allegations and seeks to sow doubt,” Grose told VOA, adding that the CCP has used a similar strategy to also go after researchers and media outlets considered anti-China.
Zubayra Shamseden, Chinese Outreach Coordinator at the Washington-based Uyghur Human Rights Project, said the accusations show the women have been influential in providing information on Xinjiang despite China’s effort to isolate it.
Going after activists’ private lives and publicly shaming them has become a norm in crackdowns to silence Uyghur witnesses, Shamseden told VOA.
“Those women witnesses' testimonies truly hit the hot spot of what China is trying to hide from the world: slow but firm genocide of Uyghurs,” she told VOA.
*RELATED STORIES*

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## Char

aziqbal said:


> *Uyghur Activists in Exile Emboldened by Beijing’s Attacks *
> By Asim Kashgarian
> March 26, 2021 05:40 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A protester from the Uyghur community living in Turkey stands with flags in the Beyazit mosque during a protest against the visit of China's Foreign Minister to Turkey, in Istanbul on March 25, 2021.
> WASHINGTON - Uyghur and Kazakh women activists who have been at the forefront of international criticism of Beijing’s repressive policies in Xinjiang say they are not backing down after Chinese officials publicly smeared their character to try to discredit them.
> Several women have become outspoken activists in exile, telling international media that they endured rape, torture, forced sterilization and indoctrination by Chinese authorities in internment camps.
> In recent weeks, China’s officials have accused them of having affairs and sexually transmitted diseases and committing loan fraud as evidence of bad character. The effort to disprove the women’s accounts comes as Beijing faces growing international pressure over its four-year crackdown against the Turkic ethnic groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Uyghurs women take part in a protest during the visit of Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Berlin, Germany, Sept. 1, 2020.
> But some of the women say the criticism has only emboldened them to speak out more about these abuses.
> “It is unbelievable that in order to invalidate my accounts of rape, torture and forced sterilization, Chinese officials said I was infertile,” said Tursunay Ziyawudun, 42, a Uyghur camp survivor.
> Ziyawudun was allowed by the Chinese government to travel for only one month to Kazakhstan to stay with her husband in September 2019 after she had been released from an internment camp in Xinjiang. She moved to the U.S. state of Virginia a year later. She told VOA that her uterus had to be removed after arriving in the U.S. because of sustained injury from abuses in Xinjiang.
> “On four different occasions, I was taken to an interrogation room, where I was beaten. My private part was electrocuted unbearably by an electric baton and I was gang-raped,” Ziyawudun told VOA, adding that some of her fellow female detainees never came back to the cell after their visit to the interrogation room, and those who did return were told to keep quiet.
> Beijing has publicly called the Uyghur women activists “liars” and “actors” fabricating “fake news” on Xinjiang.
> 
> 
> 
> FILE - Xu Guixiang, the deputy propaganda head of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region for China's Communist Party, speaks during a press conference at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Beijing, March 18, 2021.
> On February 18, Xu Guixiang, the deputy director-general of the Publicity Department of Xinjiang, called Ziyawudun’s accusations “sheer nonsense.” At a press conference in Beijing, Xu portrayed Ziyawudun as a tool of China’s enemies and made allegations concerning her marriage history and supposed divorce over infertility.
> “After leaving the country, in order to gain the refugee status, she was willing to be the 'actress' and manipulated by anti-China forces,” Xu told reporters.
> Some China observers and rights activists say they are not surprised that China’s Communist Party (CCP) is attacking the character of its critics. They say the CCP continues to prevent independent, outside groups from investigating claims of abuse made by Uyghurs and others.
> “These accusations often are accompanied by other ad hominem attacks. All of these are efforts to diminish criticisms of the CCP overseas,” said Anastasia Lin, a senior fellow at the Canada-based Raoul Wallenberg Human Rights Center.
> 
> 
> 
> FILE - Elijan Anayat, spokesperson of the Information Office of the People's Government of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, answers a question at a press conference in Beijing on Jan. 11, 2021.
> At the same press conference in Beijing last month, Elijan Anayat, a spokesperson for the Xinjiang regional government, attacked Gulbahar Haitwaji, another Uyghur activist who has accused China of torture and inhumane cruelty against Uyghurs stemming from her two years in the country’s re-education camps.
> “When she lived in China, she had affairs with other people and was exposed by her neighbor.” Anayat told the news conference. He further questioned Haitwaji’s integrity and accused her of membership in a “terrorist organization” — the World Uyghur Congress, an exile group based in London whose leaders have testified before the U.S. Congress and the United Nations.
> Haitwaji, 55, a mother of two, currently lives in France and recounted details of her detention in internment camps from 2017 to 2019 in a book, "Survivor of the Chinese Gulag.” Haitwaji said she was chained to her bed for 20 days and witnessed similar inhumane treatment against other Uyghur women by camp officials in Karamay, a northern city in Xinjiang.
> “I told truthfully what I have witnessed in the camps in the book, and now unable to invalidate my accounts, they [Chinese officials] come after me with baseless character attacks,” Haitwaji said last month in the interview with Radio Free Asia while strongly rejecting Anayat’s attacks.
> Zumret Dawut, 38, is yet another Uyghur woman smeared by Beijing. Chinese officials have characterized her as someone with “inferior character,” while denying that she was sterilized or was ever held in internment camps.
> “Everyone knows about her,” Xu said last month in Beijing, “she’s lazy and likes comfort. Her private life is chaotic, and her neighbors say that she committed adultery while in China.”
> 
> 
> 
> FILE - Female members of the Muslim Uyghur minority chant slogans and wave flags of East Turkestan as they demonstrate to ask for news of their relatives near China's consulate in Istanbul on March 8, 2021.
> Dawut told VOA that Xu’s attacks were baseless and proved her activism has helped further expose China’s stringent policies in Xinjiang. She said she was kept in an internment camp in Urumqi in 2018 for more than two months until her Pakistani husband secured her release. Camp authorities, according to her, forced her and 200 other Uyghur women to undergo sterilization surgery in late 2018 at Urumqi county hospital.
> “I had spoken facts about rights abuses against me and my people in East Turkestan. That is why China is trying to silence me with character attacks,” Dawut said, adding that she would continue telling about Beijing’s abuses in East Turkestan, a preferred term used by Uyghurs for Xinjiang.
> Tim Grose, an assistant professor of China studies at Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology in Terre Haute, Indiana, said it was unlikely that the tactic by Chinese diplomats and state-media against these women can distract international attention from reports of human rights violations in Xinjiang.
> “This tactic tries to deflect attention from the serious allegations and seeks to sow doubt,” Grose told VOA, adding that the CCP has used a similar strategy to also go after researchers and media outlets considered anti-China.
> Zubayra Shamseden, Chinese Outreach Coordinator at the Washington-based Uyghur Human Rights Project, said the accusations show the women have been influential in providing information on Xinjiang despite China’s effort to isolate it.
> Going after activists’ private lives and publicly shaming them has become a norm in crackdowns to silence Uyghur witnesses, Shamseden told VOA.
> “Those women witnesses' testimonies truly hit the hot spot of what China is trying to hide from the world: slow but firm genocide of Uyghurs,” she told VOA.
> *RELATED STORIES*



@Itachi


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> *Uyghur Activists in Exile Emboldened by Beijing’s Attacks *
> By Asim Kashgarian
> March 26, 2021 05:40 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A protester from the Uyghur community living in Turkey stands with flags in the Beyazit mosque during a protest against the visit of China's Foreign Minister to Turkey, in Istanbul on March 25, 2021.
> WASHINGTON - Uyghur and Kazakh women activists who have been at the forefront of international criticism of Beijing’s repressive policies in Xinjiang say they are not backing down after Chinese officials publicly smeared their character to try to discredit them.
> Several women have become outspoken activists in exile, telling international media that they endured rape, torture, forced sterilization and indoctrination by Chinese authorities in internment camps.
> In recent weeks, China’s officials have accused them of having affairs and sexually transmitted diseases and committing loan fraud as evidence of bad character. The effort to disprove the women’s accounts comes as Beijing faces growing international pressure over its four-year crackdown against the Turkic ethnic groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Uyghurs women take part in a protest during the visit of Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Berlin, Germany, Sept. 1, 2020.
> But some of the women say the criticism has only emboldened them to speak out more about these abuses.
> “It is unbelievable that in order to invalidate my accounts of rape, torture and forced sterilization, Chinese officials said I was infertile,” said Tursunay Ziyawudun, 42, a Uyghur camp survivor.
> Ziyawudun was allowed by the Chinese government to travel for only one month to Kazakhstan to stay with her husband in September 2019 after she had been released from an internment camp in Xinjiang. She moved to the U.S. state of Virginia a year later. She told VOA that her uterus had to be removed after arriving in the U.S. because of sustained injury from abuses in Xinjiang.
> “On four different occasions, I was taken to an interrogation room, where I was beaten. My private part was electrocuted unbearably by an electric baton and I was gang-raped,” Ziyawudun told VOA, adding that some of her fellow female detainees never came back to the cell after their visit to the interrogation room, and those who did return were told to keep quiet.
> Beijing has publicly called the Uyghur women activists “liars” and “actors” fabricating “fake news” on Xinjiang.
> 
> 
> 
> FILE - Xu Guixiang, the deputy propaganda head of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region for China's Communist Party, speaks during a press conference at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Beijing, March 18, 2021.
> On February 18, Xu Guixiang, the deputy director-general of the Publicity Department of Xinjiang, called Ziyawudun’s accusations “sheer nonsense.” At a press conference in Beijing, Xu portrayed Ziyawudun as a tool of China’s enemies and made allegations concerning her marriage history and supposed divorce over infertility.
> “After leaving the country, in order to gain the refugee status, she was willing to be the 'actress' and manipulated by anti-China forces,” Xu told reporters.
> Some China observers and rights activists say they are not surprised that China’s Communist Party (CCP) is attacking the character of its critics. They say the CCP continues to prevent independent, outside groups from investigating claims of abuse made by Uyghurs and others.
> “These accusations often are accompanied by other ad hominem attacks. All of these are efforts to diminish criticisms of the CCP overseas,” said Anastasia Lin, a senior fellow at the Canada-based Raoul Wallenberg Human Rights Center.
> 
> 
> 
> FILE - Elijan Anayat, spokesperson of the Information Office of the People's Government of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, answers a question at a press conference in Beijing on Jan. 11, 2021.
> At the same press conference in Beijing last month, Elijan Anayat, a spokesperson for the Xinjiang regional government, attacked Gulbahar Haitwaji, another Uyghur activist who has accused China of torture and inhumane cruelty against Uyghurs stemming from her two years in the country’s re-education camps.
> “When she lived in China, she had affairs with other people and was exposed by her neighbor.” Anayat told the news conference. He further questioned Haitwaji’s integrity and accused her of membership in a “terrorist organization” — the World Uyghur Congress, an exile group based in London whose leaders have testified before the U.S. Congress and the United Nations.
> Haitwaji, 55, a mother of two, currently lives in France and recounted details of her detention in internment camps from 2017 to 2019 in a book, "Survivor of the Chinese Gulag.” Haitwaji said she was chained to her bed for 20 days and witnessed similar inhumane treatment against other Uyghur women by camp officials in Karamay, a northern city in Xinjiang.
> “I told truthfully what I have witnessed in the camps in the book, and now unable to invalidate my accounts, they [Chinese officials] come after me with baseless character attacks,” Haitwaji said last month in the interview with Radio Free Asia while strongly rejecting Anayat’s attacks.
> Zumret Dawut, 38, is yet another Uyghur woman smeared by Beijing. Chinese officials have characterized her as someone with “inferior character,” while denying that she was sterilized or was ever held in internment camps.
> “Everyone knows about her,” Xu said last month in Beijing, “she’s lazy and likes comfort. Her private life is chaotic, and her neighbors say that she committed adultery while in China.”
> 
> 
> 
> FILE - Female members of the Muslim Uyghur minority chant slogans and wave flags of East Turkestan as they demonstrate to ask for news of their relatives near China's consulate in Istanbul on March 8, 2021.
> Dawut told VOA that Xu’s attacks were baseless and proved her activism has helped further expose China’s stringent policies in Xinjiang. She said she was kept in an internment camp in Urumqi in 2018 for more than two months until her Pakistani husband secured her release. Camp authorities, according to her, forced her and 200 other Uyghur women to undergo sterilization surgery in late 2018 at Urumqi county hospital.
> “I had spoken facts about rights abuses against me and my people in East Turkestan. That is why China is trying to silence me with character attacks,” Dawut said, adding that she would continue telling about Beijing’s abuses in East Turkestan, a preferred term used by Uyghurs for Xinjiang.
> Tim Grose, an assistant professor of China studies at Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology in Terre Haute, Indiana, said it was unlikely that the tactic by Chinese diplomats and state-media against these women can distract international attention from reports of human rights violations in Xinjiang.
> “This tactic tries to deflect attention from the serious allegations and seeks to sow doubt,” Grose told VOA, adding that the CCP has used a similar strategy to also go after researchers and media outlets considered anti-China.
> Zubayra Shamseden, Chinese Outreach Coordinator at the Washington-based Uyghur Human Rights Project, said the accusations show the women have been influential in providing information on Xinjiang despite China’s effort to isolate it.
> Going after activists’ private lives and publicly shaming them has become a norm in crackdowns to silence Uyghur witnesses, Shamseden told VOA.
> “Those women witnesses' testimonies truly hit the hot spot of what China is trying to hide from the world: slow but firm genocide of Uyghurs,” she told VOA.
> *RELATED STORIES*



Not activists. Separatists.









First East Turkestan Republic - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Dariush the Great

Who cares about a bunch of wannabe terrorists. Take care of these CIA parasites, China!


----------



## Globenim

There is nothing more hillarious than a US regime propaganda mouthpiece agent picking up a tourist visa for China, flying on Chinese airlines to bustling Chinese cities and start talking to the people about some "secret" American genocide conspiracy that supposed to go e in their backyard in the middle of a tourist site because of some retarded circlejerk of of US government paid and controlled fake activists and propaganda mouthpieces, while the paid shills here try hard to keep a straight face spamming the same recycled script for these lazy attrocity propaganda flick deflecting Americas genocidal and human rights abuse history on foreign countries like China every day on a defense forum.

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## PeaceGen

casual said:


> @PeaceGen cnn exposed


Thank you. I will forward this to a wide emailing list that i run, which includes the addresses of several major international news organisations (CNN included), political parties and intelligence services, with a request for honest reporting.


Metal 0-1 said:


> Why don't you CCP bots share neutral sources rather than your stupid commie propaganda.


Honest testimony can not be dismissed.


----------



## aziqbal

fanboys have ben triggered

if you dont like it dont go crying to mods when you get owned

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> fanboys have ben triggered
> 
> if you dont like it dont go crying to mods when you get owned



Oh come on. 2,000 posts after 11 years. What got you triggered huh? Huh?


----------



## striver44

yes, I think CIA must start arming them.

Syria had one of the largest tank forces in the world before the SCW. now it's just a shadow of it's former self.

nice idea

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

striver44 said:


> yes, I think CIA must start arming them.
> 
> Syria had one of the largest tank forces in the world before the SCW. now it's just a shadow of it's former self.
> 
> nice idea



China ain't anywhere close to Syria. Syria has always had a weak military. China on the other hand is a military powerhouse and is far bigger than Syria. Kashgar Shanghai more than 4,200 km. Syria don't even span 1,000 km.






Modern youth in Kashgar.

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## Dariush the Great

Perhaps we should arm seperatists in Indonesia and Pakistan too.


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## striver44

Pakistan needs to keep an eye on Iran, they're training and recruiting zainabion terrorist morons in Pakistan.

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## waz

Dariush the Great said:


> Perhaps we should arm seperatists in Indonesia and Pakistan too.



Why bring Pakistan into this? On one hand you were complaining about @aziqbal post and now you want to arm people in Pakistan. 
Go ahead and try it, they don't live long and we will scatter their remains for you to see.

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## striver44

Hey @AgNoStiC MuSliM @WebMaster @waz @LeGenD and all mods is it legal to promote separatism in Pakistan in a Pakistani forum?

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## Dariush the Great

waz said:


> Why bring Pakistan into this? On one hand you were complaining about @aziqbal post and now you want to arm people in Pakistan.
> Go ahead and try it, they don't live long and we will scatter their remains for you to see.


Thanks for proving my point. Arming separatists in China and shouting for a civil war is OK but if the same happens to you it is completely wrong.

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## waz

Dariush the Great said:


> Thanks for proving my point. Arming separatists in China and shouting for a civil war is OK but if the same happens to you it is completely wrong.



The post was deleted and why on earth would we advocate that, and with China Pakistan's major ally. 
So are you going to arm people in Pakistan? Where and when.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

*Construction begin on 126 key projects in Urumqi, Xinjiang





*


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## Dariush the Great

waz said:


> The post was deleted and why on earth would we advocate that, and with China Pakistan's major ally.
> So are you going to arm people in Pakistan? Where and when.


China is currently under heavy attack from the famous warmongers. Such posts from people in Pakistan are not welcome and sow confusion and discord. China is on the forefront of anti-imperialism and i salute them. Any freedom loving independent human should stand with China.

Nothing will happen to Pakistan.

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## striver44

mmmm in every country conspiring to support rebellion in a country resulted in swift execution.

someone just pointed out that he wish to arm separatists in Pakistan in a Pakistani forum, and didn't even feel guilty. sounds like a ban should do

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## waz

Dariush the Great said:


> China is currently under heavy attack from the famous warmongers. Such posts from people in Pakistan are not welcome and sow confusion and discord. China is on the forefront of anti-imperialism and i salute them. Any freedom loving independent human should stand with China.
> 
> Nothing will happen to Pakistan.



No one currently living in Pakistan has said anything. It’s expats and their opinion, which they have a right to provided rules are not broken.

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## aziqbal

SBUS-CXK said:


> Why do you suicide bombers think CNN and BBC are neutral?



Reported


Metal 0-1 said:


> Why don't you CCP bots share neutral sources rather than your stupid commie propaganda.



because they are paid $70 per month to fund propaganda from only Chinese sources as they cant get real life jobs and work for a living liker every one else, all sources are either Chinese Twitter or State sponsored propaganda, rebranded as "facts"

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## LeGenD

striver44 said:


> Hey @AgNoStiC MuSliM @WebMaster @waz @LeGenD and all mods is it legal to promote separatism in Pakistan in a Pakistani forum?


[Caps]NO[/Caps]


----------



## Itachi

waz said:


> No one currently living in Pakistan has said anything. It’s expats and their opinion, which they have a right to provided rules are not broken.



More like they can't say or the black vigos will pick em up.


----------



## Itachi

aziqbal said:


> FAKE



As Hell...




Dalit said:


> LOL at your country is free.



Very much. I can come to PDF as I please.

In China, PDF is banned cuz it spreads "anti-China" propaganda!!   

So much for Cheen Pakistan dosti. 


SBUS-CXK said:


> Why do you suicide bombers think CNN and BBC are neutral?



Reported.


Metal 0-1 said:


> Why don't you CCP bots share neutral sources rather than your stupid commie propaganda.



Because there is no Chinese Media...it's all State controlled like everything else in China. 



South China Morning Post by Jack Ma is the closest thing to a Chinese media.......and it's based in Hong Kong.

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## T-SaGe

I have friends in Istanbul, which is in exile right now. In order not to turn the polemics here into a fight, I am not involving these types of debates. Also there could be posters who want to manipulate my writes because of my nationality. But it's completly DISGUSTING mindset to labelling these exiled people as terrorists from a wholesale point of view, and it's even more dire to have it featured in a Pakistani forum.

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## Itachi

T-SaGe said:


> I have friends in Istanbul, which is in exile right now. In order not to turn the polemics here into a fight, I am not involving these types of debates. Also there could be posters who want to manipulate my writes because of my nationality. But it's completly DISGUSTING mindset to labelling these exiled people as terrorists from a wholesale point of view, and it's even more dire to have it featured in a Pakistani forum.



Post more about your friend. We need original opinions and life experiences from Uyghurs on this website.


----------



## Nan Yang

What more proof do you need. Enough said.

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## SBUS-CXK

aziqbal said:


> Reported
> 
> 
> because they are paid $70 per month to fund propaganda from only Chinese sources as they cant get real life jobs and work for a living liker every one else, all sources are either Chinese Twitter or State sponsored propaganda, rebranded as "facts"


oh So you accept the fact that... Are you better than Xinjiang? Or you think you are more developed than Xinjiang. Are you happier than Uighurs?

The most backward country in the world is full of confidence after watching western news. @Metal 0-1 

LOL！


SBUS-CXK said:


> Why do you think CNN and BBC are neutral?





aziqbal said:


> Reported
> 
> 
> because they are paid $70 per month to fund propaganda from only Chinese sources as they cant get real life jobs and work for a living liker every one else, all sources are either Chinese Twitter or State sponsored propaganda, rebranded as "facts"


very interesting. One bomb country says the others are robots. OMG. Save your backward country, OK? Even Xinjiang is 20 years ahead of you. Will watching too much western news forget how failed your country is? LOL.

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## Itachi

SBUS-CXK said:


> oh So you accept the fact that... Are you better than Xinjiang? Or you think you are more developed than Xinjiang. Are you happier than Uighurs?
> 
> The most backward country in the world is full of confidence after watching western news. @Metal 0-1
> 
> LOL！
> 
> 
> very interesting. One bomb country says the others are robots. OMG. Save your backward country, OK? Even Xinjiang is 20 years ahead of you. Will watching too much western news forget how failed your country is? LOL.




Ummmmm how is this guy not perma banned??? His last comment, which should have earned him a ban too....got edited...my comments get removed and I get banned but this guys is fine??

@waz @Arsalan @WebMaster


SBUS-CXK said:


> oh So you accept the fact that... Are you better than Xinjiang? Or you think you are more developed than Xinjiang. Are you happier than Uighurs?
> 
> The most backward country in the world is full of confidence after watching western news. @Metal 0-1
> 
> LOL！
> 
> 
> very interesting. One bomb country says the others are robots. OMG. Save your backward country, OK? Even Xinjiang is 20 years ahead of you. Will watching too much western news forget how failed your country is? LOL.



Sit down kid. Your country is in no position to tell Pakistan anything. Without Pakistan, your Western end would become another Afghanistan. Which is why you're on good relations with us. 

If you leaders spoke like you do. China wouldn't exist in the next decade.


----------



## airmarshal

PeaceGen said:


> CNN finds stranded Uyghur children in China - CNN Video
> 
> 
> Amnesty International reports that China's policies towards ethnic Uyghur Muslims have split up thousands of families, as some children are prevented from leaving China's Xinjiang region to be with their parents living abroad. The US and other countries have labeled China's treatment of Uyghurs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *World News (15 Videos)*
> 
> *CNN finds stranded Uyghur children in China*
> Amnesty International reports that China's policies towards ethnic Uyghur Muslims have split up thousands of families, as some children are prevented from leaving China's Xinjiang region to be with their parents living abroad. The US and other countries have labeled China's treatment of Uyghurs as genocide. Beijing strongly denies the accusations, insisting that its actions are justified to combat religious extremism and prevent terrorism. With permission from Uyghur parents desperate for answers, CNN's David Culver traveled to the heavily surveilled Xinjiang region in search of their children left behind.
> Source: CNN
> 
> The dad of one of these captive kids says on camera "why does a country treat innocent people like this?"
> And i think it's a completely valid question.



CNN however will not find any orphaned children or stranded children in syria, Libya or Iraq. Because those countries were attacked by America's allies directly or through their terror proxies.


----------



## Itachi

1) Doesn't explain how "CNN reporters disturbed" the family...

2) Does explain that the wife or the couple got left China once they got under the CCP's radar for "suspicion of provoking ethnic hatred". Lmao

3) Can't even hear the original speech....everything is voiced over by CCP official in English.

4) Why can't the children leave China?? CNN's original claim...


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Itachi said:


> Ummmmm how is this guy not perma banned??? His last comment, which should have earned him a ban too....got edited...my comments get removed and I get banned but this guys is fine??
> 
> @waz @Arsalan @WebMaster
> 
> 
> Sit down kid. Your country is in no position to tell Pakistan anything. Without Pakistan, your Western end would become another Afghanistan. Which is why you're on good relations with us.
> 
> If you leaders spoke like you do. China wouldn't exist in the next decade.


So we can't talk about facts? What's the difference between Pakistan and Afghanistan?

or do you think the sum of per capita GDP of India, Pakistan and Afghanistan is equal to Xinjiang???

Let's respect the facts. thank you. And Western China will be like Afghanistan??? Because of the loss of Pakistan? emmm... It seems that watching too much western news will make people forget their national status.

@aziqbal

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## Itachi

SBUS-CXK said:


> So we can't talk about facts? What's the difference between Pakistan and Afghanistan?
> 
> or do you think the sum of per capita GDP of India, Pakistan and Afghanistan is equal to Xinjiang???
> 
> Let's respect the facts. thank you. And Western China will be like Afghanistan??? Because of the loss of Pakistan? emmm... It seems that watching too much western news will make people forget their national status.
> 
> @aziqbal



So you don't know the difference between Afghanistan and Pakistan?? Are you fucking kidding me?? You seem like a troll.

One of the above nations has the 6th largest standing army and is a nuclear power, out of 9 total nuclear states.

Do I need to go on??? If China Pakistan ever have a war, your cities will be nuked. Is that more than enough to explain the difference kid??

Learn some respect before you come to PDF, a website banned in China btw, and start lecturing a Pakistani. You're not in China right now...


----------



## beijingwalker

Xinjiang's medical and healthcare program is the envy of central Asia.


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang's medical and healthcare program is the envy of central Asia.



Heard Chinese go to Indian hospitals.....not so much of a envy now heh??


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

waz said:


> No one currently living in Pakistan has said anything. It’s expats and their opinion, which they have a right to provided rules are not broken.


Do you feel they provide anything useful to the forum? They keep harping on the same issue to the point that they've just become farcical and they get banned regularly. They're just noise.


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Heard Chinese go to Indian hospitals.....not so much of a envy now heh??


Americans too go to Indian hospital to receive VIP treatment. India doesn't pay loyalty to new drugs so it's cheaper to get treated there, that's why many westerners go to India to get treatment, but future squeezed chance for local Indians to access already limited medical resources.


----------



## striver44

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Do you feel they provide anything useful to the forum? They keep harping on the same issue to the point that they've just become farcical and they get banned regularly. They're just noise.


And you think CCP bots are useful?

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## SBUS-CXK

aziqbal said:


> Reported
> 
> 
> because they are paid $70 per month to fund propaganda from only Chinese sources as they cant get real life jobs and work for a living liker every one else, all sources are either Chinese Twitter or State sponsored propaganda, rebranded as "facts"





Itachi said:


> So you don't know the difference between Afghanistan and Pakistan?? Are you fucking kidding me?? You seem like a troll.
> 
> One of the above nations has the 6th largest standing army and is a nuclear power, out of 9 total nuclear states.
> 
> Do I need to go on??? If China Pakistan ever have a war, your cities will be nuked. Is that more than enough to explain the difference kid??
> 
> Learn some respect before you come to PDF, a website banned in China btw, and start lecturing a Pakistani. You're not in China right now...


OK, OK, in fact. As the big brother of manufacturing in central and South Asia. Xinjiang has a lot to teach Pakistan. For example, how to make high-speed railway, subway and tunnel boring machine.
Pakistan should learn how Xinjiang makes tunnel boring machines. Xinjiang wind turbines are also very good. Export to the whole world.

Pakistan can also learn UHP technology from Xinjiang. Solve your power shortage. Or you learn polysilicon technology from Xinjiang. Develop clean energy.

All in all. Don't have too many illusions about western news. The world is not as simple as you think...

@Itachi @aziqbal @Metal 0-1

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## ZeEa5KPul

striver44 said:


> And you think CCP bots are useful?


Very. Problem?


----------



## striver44

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Very Problem


No, just deal with it, he's going nowhere.


----------



## beijingwalker

*Is creating chaos in Xinjiang a long-term plan of the United States*

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

beijingwalker said:


> *Is creating chaos in Xinjiang a long-term plan of the United States*



Xinjiang is a thorn in America's hide. Kashgar airbase is from where PLA strikes Taiwan using strategic bombers. At 4,500+ km from Taipei, it's out of range of Taiwan's F-16.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Americans too go to Indian hospital to receive VIP treatment. India doesn't pay loyalty to new drugs so it's cheaper to get treated there, that's why many westerners go to India to get treatment, but future squeezed chance for local Indians to access already limited medical resources.



Lmao what?? Some Americans might....not as much as Chinese do. 

More foreigners visit the US for medical treatment than leave the US to go abroad for it...


beijingwalker said:


> Is creating chaos in Xinjiang a long-term plan of the United States



If it wasn't apparent so far.............the answer is a resounding Yes!


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Itachi said:


> So you don't know the difference between Afghanistan and Pakistan?? Are you fucking kidding me?? You seem like a troll.
> 
> One of the above nations has the 6th largest standing army and is a nuclear power, out of 9 total nuclear states.
> 
> Do I need to go on??? If China Pakistan ever have a war, your cities will be nuked. Is that more than enough to explain the difference kid??
> 
> Learn some respect before you come to PDF, a website banned in China btw, and start lecturing a Pakistani. You're not in China right now...


oh BTW, MacArthur and the Soviet Union also fantasize about using nuclear weapons against China. You mean Pakistan wants to threaten China with nuclear weapons?

emmm... Is Pakistan so brainwashed by the West now? 

Do you want to tell me the "terrible range" of Pakistan's nuclear weapons? Or do you want to say that Pakistan has advanced bombers to air drop nuclear bombs? And I don't remember China teaching you SLBM technology.

WOW！Watching too much western news gives a country so many illusions.

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Lmao what?? Some Americans might....not as much as Chinese do.


Way more than Chinese.

*India’s Hospitals Are Filling Up With Desperate Americans








India's Hospitals Are Filling Up With Desperate Americans


Are deep-pocketed medical tourists the cause of, or solution to, India's health care problems?




foreignpolicy.com




*


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Way more than Chinese.
> 
> *India’s Hospitals Are Filling Up With Desperate Americans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India's Hospitals Are Filling Up With Desperate Americans
> 
> 
> Are deep-pocketed medical tourists the cause of, or solution to, India's health care problems?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreignpolicy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



*Between 500,000 and a million Chinese go overseas for medical treatment.* 









China Medical Tourism Report 2018: Massive Inbound and Outbound Potential - Between 500,000 and a 1,000,000 Chinese go Overseas for Medical Treatment - ResearchAndMarkets.com


The



www.businesswire.com


----------



## Itachi

SBUS-CXK said:


> oh BTW, MacArthur and the Soviet Union also fantasize about using nuclear weapons against China. You mean Pakistan wants to threaten China with nuclear weapons?
> 
> emmm... Is Pakistan so brainwashed by the West now?
> 
> Do you want to tell me the "terrible range" of Pakistan's nuclear weapons? Or do you want to say that Pakistan has advanced bombers to air drop nuclear bombs? And I don't remember China teaching you SLBM technology.
> 
> WOW！Watching too much western news gives a country so many illusions.



Lmao you're one foolish person if you don't know basic facts about Pakistani Missiles...

Keep on harping. Your ban isn't far away. I and others have already reported your posts. It's back to the Chinese internet for you.


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> *Between 500,000 and a million Chinese go overseas for medical treatment.*


Yes, China has the world biggest population, and people have more and more money to choose wherever place they believe suiting their particular needs the best in the world, Facilities of the whole world can be accessible by the Chinese, How many Indians can afford traveling overseas for medical treatments?


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Yes, China has the world biggest population, and people have more and more money to choose wherever place they believe suiting their particular needs the best in the world. How many Indians can afford traveling overseas for medical treatments?



I don't care about Indians but saying the Central Asians are "envied" of Xinjiang is taking it a bit too far. 

No one envies Xinjiang when they see the amount of security guards and cameras on the streets...

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## SBUS-CXK

Itachi said:


> Lmao you're one foolish person if you don't know basic facts about Pakistani Missiles...
> 
> Keep on harping. Your ban isn't far away. I and others have already reported your posts. It's back to the Chinese internet for you.


Pakistan missile... amusing. Maximum range 900 km? wowww... Congratulations, it really surpasses Turkish missile technology.

Ah, I see. You don't have to repeat it. Western news gives you a lot of illusions.

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## Itachi

SBUS-CXK said:


> Pakistan missile... amusing. Maximum range 900 km? wowww... Congratulations, it really surpasses Turkish missile technology.
> 
> Ah, I see. You don't have to repeat it. Western news gives you a lot of illusions.



Man, you're one retarded rice farmer......go back to rice farming since you can't even dig up basic missile range.


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> I don't care about Indians but saying the Central Asians are "envied" of Xinjiang is taking it a bit too far.
> 
> No one envies Xinjiang when they see the amount of security guards and cameras on the streets...
> 
> View attachment 728937
> 
> 
> View attachment 728938
> 
> 
> View attachment 728939


Ha, if you don't do bad things and poop on the street, why do you worry about cameras? you know why China has very few crimes and almost everytime after people accidentally drop things like wallets on the streets, those things can always be recovered? 
In religious countries people believe that God is watching them so they refrain from doing bad deeds, in China we know cameras are watching, to the same effect.


----------



## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Ha, if you don't do bad things and poop on the street, why do you worry about cameras? you know why China has very few crimes and almost everytime after people accidentally drop things like wallets on the streets, those things can always be recovered?
> In religious countries people believe that God is watching them so they refrain from doing bad deeds, in China we know cameras are watching, to the same effect.



Yea right....another lie...






Corruption is also very high in China. Isn't that why Xi started his anti-Corruption campaigns??

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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Yea right....another lie...
> 
> View attachment 728945
> 
> 
> Corruption is also very high in China. Isn't that why Xi started his anti-Corruption campaigns??


Theft goes high tech now, true. but China is still among the countries with lowest crime rate, no one says China has no crimes at all, we are talking about 1.4 billion souls.


Itachi said:


> Corruption is also very high in China. Isn't that why Xi started his anti-Corruption campaigns??


Consensus among the Chinese public is corruption is still a problem, even the situation is much better than Hu's time, more work need to be done on it. you believe in other countries they are much better and having less corruption than China? think again.


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Itachi said:


> Man, you're one retarded rice farmer......go back to rice farming since you can't even dig up basic missile range.


Because you are obsessed with Western false news. Can't accept any facts now?

Pakistan on Friday conducted a successful flight test of the Shaheen 1-A surface-to-surface ballistic missile, a statement issued by the military's media wing said.

The test flight was aimed at re-validating various design and technical parameters of the weapon system including advanced navigation system. The missile has a range of 900 kilometres, according to the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR).

.......................... 

Bragging, lying, personal attacks, other skills?

@Itachi @aziqbal @Metal 0-1

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Theft goes high tech now, true. but China is still among the countries with lowest crime rate, no one says China has no crimes at all, we are talking about 1.4 billion souls.



Another lie!!

You're not even in the Top 30 safest countries!





__





Crime Rate by Country 2022






worldpopulationreview.com





Hong Kong and Saudi Arabia are safer than China!!  

With Qatar, UAE and Taiwan being the safest.....Taiwan is #2. LMAO

Guess religion and freedom does work better?

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## SBUS-CXK

Itachi said:


> View attachment 728948
> 
> 
> Go back to the rice fields kid.....and these are just MRBM's.....once Pakistan gets a ICBM.....all of China will be in reach.
> 
> Oh and Pakistan can launch CM's through Subs (or soon will)....so we can still strike Chinese Eastern Coast.


@Metal 0-1 @aziqbal Hi, robot. Is that the consequence of watching too much western news?






@waz @Arsalan @WebMaster Please save the child. thank you. He is destroying Pakistan.

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## PradoTLC

PeaceGen said:


> CNN finds stranded Uyghur children in China - CNN Video
> 
> 
> Amnesty International reports that China's policies towards ethnic Uyghur Muslims have split up thousands of families, as some children are prevented from leaving China's Xinjiang region to be with their parents living abroad. The US and other countries have labeled China's treatment of Uyghurs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *World News (15 Videos)*
> 
> *CNN finds stranded Uyghur children in China*
> Amnesty International reports that China's policies towards ethnic Uyghur Muslims have split up thousands of families, as some children are prevented from leaving China's Xinjiang region to be with their parents living abroad. The US and other countries have labeled China's treatment of Uyghurs as genocide. Beijing strongly denies the accusations, insisting that its actions are justified to combat religious extremism and prevent terrorism. With permission from Uyghur parents desperate for answers, CNN's David Culver traveled to the heavily surveilled Xinjiang region in search of their children left behind.
> Source: CNN
> 
> The dad of one of these captive kids says on camera "why does a country treat innocent people like this?"
> And i think it's a completely valid question.





but CNN never finds indian atrocities?...

why?

two faced hypocrites?


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Itachi said:


> View attachment 728948
> 
> 
> Go back to the rice fields kid.....and these are just MRBM's.....once Pakistan gets a ICBM.....all of China will be in reach.
> 
> Oh and Pakistan can launch CM's through Subs (or soon will)....so we can still strike Chinese Eastern Coast.


@waz @Arsalan @WebMaster Gentlemen. He's destroying Pakistan. He is now bringing Pakistan into the game of great powers. China never sees Pakistan as an enemy. Even China never sanctions Pakistan. But he's crazy. He wants Pakistan to be China's enemy. OMG Please save him. And save Pakistan.

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## Itachi

SBUS-CXK said:


> @waz @Arsalan @WebMaster Gentlemen. He's destroying Pakistan. He is now bringing Pakistan into the game of great powers. China never sees Pakistan as an enemy. Even China never sanctions Pakistan. But he's crazy. He wants Pakistan to be China's enemy. OMG Please save him. And save Pakistan.



Lmao.....bring in the mods when I say something...typical.  

You literally called Pakistan a bomb country......called us suicide bombers and more...should I keep going on??


----------



## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375699391370031108

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375790995392983040

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## striver44

In communist country it's very easy forcing people to make statements like this.

Think for a second what happens before the camera starts rollin.

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## SBUS-CXK

Itachi said:


> Lmao.....bring in the mods when I say something...typical.
> 
> You literally called Pakistan a bomb country......called us suicide bombers and more...should I keep going on??


OK, robots attack first.

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## JSCh

I don't know about you, but looking at the smiling and happy kids, I shudder at the thought of, if one day America come and "liberated" them like in Iraq or Syria.

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## Dungeness

beijingwalker said:


> As if US doesn't have boarding schools, they can find hundreds of millions of Han Children "being separated" from their parents as well, lol..
> 
> Xinjiang boarding school in poor rural regions




Just wondering what these free boarding schools could have done for inner city kids and for the future of USA.


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Another lie!!
> 
> You're not even in the Top 30 safest countries!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crime Rate by Country 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> worldpopulationreview.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hong Kong and Saudi Arabia are safer than China!!
> 
> With Qatar, UAE and Taiwan being the safest.....Taiwan is #2. LMAO
> 
> Guess religion and freedom does work better?


China is one of the safest country in the world is a known fact, Check the world peace and order index and accounts of numerous expats living in China, China is a big country, can not be compared with small countries, and China doesn't have those cameras for nothing, they deter the crimes. China is particularly safer than leading western countries like US, UK, France, Italy...,, I don't know if China is safer than India or Pakistan, but China is still working on it to make the country even more safer.


Law and Order Index Worldwide 2018














Explore Gallup's Global Law and Order Research


Gallup's Law and Order Index uses four questions to gauge people's sense of personal security and their personal experiences with crime and law enforcement.




news.gallup.com

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## antonius123

PeaceGen said:


> Yeah, seriously. I think CNN is a lot more objective and honest than Chinese state media.



That means you are brainwashed already by western propaganda.


striver44 said:


> Only monsters separate little kids from their parents and left to die while portraying everything is OK.




Only stupid people .... easily for fall the line


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen




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## SBUS-CXK

striver44 said:


> In communist country it's very easy forcing people to make statements like this.
> 
> Think for a second what happens before the camera starts rollin.


agree. In terrorist countries, It's easy to force people to make these comments.

Think about the fact. In terrorist countries. Most people don't have electricity and running water. The literacy rate is less than 70%. But we can still see so much terrorist talk... The answer is obvious. This is an organization...

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## Nan Yang

Nan Yang said:


> What more proof do you need. Enough said.


The video shown during the press conference.


----------



## aziqbal

better free and poor than rich and not free

only fanboys think otherwise

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## LeGenD

Please be mindful of the rules of the forum in your posts.


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## Char

aziqbal said:


> better free and poor than rich and not free
> 
> only fanboys think otherwise



With the current pandemic, in fact, it is basically impossible to go anywhere abroad. When there is no pandemic, Xinjiang has more restrictions than other parts of China. This is the result of terrorist attacks and separatist activities, especially if family members have participated. But there are also some studying abroad.

As the security situation in Xinjiang gets better and better, I think there will be fewer and fewer restrictions. I personally hope that those who yearn for foreign countries will leave, whether they go to the West or to Muslim countries.

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## SBUS-CXK

aziqbal said:


> better free and poor than rich and not free
> 
> only fanboys think otherwise


Yeah. Beggars fantasize that the rich have no free. this will make beggars a little happy.

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## Char

Char said:


> With the current pandemic, in fact, it is basically impossible to go anywhere abroad. When there is no pandemic, Xinjiang has more restrictions than other parts of China. This is the result of terrorist attacks and separatist activities, especially if family members have participated. But there are also some studying abroad.
> 
> As the security situation in Xinjiang gets better and better, I think there will be fewer and fewer restrictions. I personally hope that those who yearn for foreign countries will leave, whether they go to the West or to Muslim countries.



I don’t know the complete story, but I can guess. Legally, there is no restriction on going abroad, but local officials don’t want them to go abroad because the West will use them to make up stories. Local officials will do ideological work for their family and persuade them. do not go.

Actually this can be flawless from legal procedures, The court can deprive the separatists of the guardianship of their children and hand over the guardianship to grandparents or other suitable persons.

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## Title1234

U.S. and U.K. are killing million of innocent Muslim Arabinclude childrens in the middle east and Afganistan .

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## beijingwalker

Showing Chinese ID cards on social media become a popular new trend in Xinjiang in support of Xinjiang and China amid western Xinjiang smearing campaign

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> China is one of the safest country in the world is a known fact, Check the world peace and order index and accounts of numerous expats living in China, China is a big country, can not be compared with small countries, and China doesn't have those cameras for nothing, they deter the crimes. China is particularly safer than leading western countries like US, UK, France, Italy...,, I don't know if China is safer than India or Pakistan, but China is still working on it to make the country even more safer.
> 
> 
> Law and Order Index Worldwide 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Explore Gallup's Global Law and Order Research
> 
> 
> Gallup's Law and Order Index uses four questions to gauge people's sense of personal security and their personal experiences with crime and law enforcement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.gallup.com



Obviously a dictatorship would have good "law and order".



beijingwalker said:


> Showing Chinese ID cards on social media become a popular new trend in Xinjiang in support of Xinjiang and China amid western Xinjiang smearing campaign



So a couple of TikTok thots vying for internet points?? Cool story.


----------



## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang Urumqi to develop "Night Economy" in 2021*


----------



## aziqbal

all from Chinese state media? really ?

is there any independent reporting?

how about allowing UN high commissioner inside and let them report a full story

China is permanent member of UN security council and yet refuses to allow the high commissioner of human rights entry to China

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## Itachi

aziqbal said:


> all from Chinese state media? really ?
> 
> is there any independent reporting?
> 
> how about allowing UN high commissioner inside and let them report a full story
> 
> China is permanent member of UN security council and yet refuses to allow the high commissioner of human rights entry to China



Everything in China is state controlled.....no civi can own anything. Land is also owned by the CCP LOL


No wonder Chinese go abroad and buy real estate....like in Australia.  

Real Estate prices have hiked in Aussie land in part because of frantic Chinese buyers...

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## aziqbal

Itachi said:


> Everything in China is state controlled.....no civi can own anything. Land is also owned by the CCP LOL
> 
> 
> No wonder Chinese go abroad and buy real estate....like in Australia.
> 
> Real Estate prices have hiked in Aussie land in part because of frantic Chinese buyers...



the best part is these fanboys believe their own hype

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## Itachi

aziqbal said:


> the best part is these fanboys believe their own hype



Lmao yup......I would love for them to live in China for a year...

Eat the dish instead of commenting about it. Lets see how many minds will change after the 1 year.

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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> the best part is these fanboys believe their own hype


We have years of experience living in both China and the west, we do the comparison. unless you brainwashed bunch, always live in your own fantacy, no wonder your development comes to a standstill.


Itachi said:


> Lmao yup......I would love for them to live in China for a year...


Many foreign expats live in China over a year, go to youtube and check how China changed their views.



https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=living+in+china

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## Metal 0-1

SBUS-CXK said:


> Because you are obsessed with Western false news. Can't accept any facts now?
> 
> Pakistan on Friday conducted a successful flight test of the Shaheen 1-A surface-to-surface ballistic missile, a statement issued by the military's media wing said.
> 
> The test flight was aimed at re-validating various design and technical parameters of the weapon system including advanced navigation system. The missile has a range of 900 kilometres, according to the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR).
> 
> ..........................
> 
> Bragging, lying, personal attacks, other skills?
> 
> @Itachi @aziqbal @Metal 0-1





SBUS-CXK said:


> @Metal 0-1 @aziqbal Hi, robot. Is that the consequence of watching too much western news?
> 
> View attachment 728949
> 
> 
> @waz @Arsalan @WebMaster Please save the child. thank you. He is destroying Pakistan.


This stupid CCP commie bot needs a little update. 

He is acting like a retard


Title1234 said:


> U.S. and U.K. are killing million of innocent Muslim Arabinclude childrens in the middle east and Afganistan .


And this gives Chaina commie reatards to do the same.

Ever heard about Tienanmen Square massacre.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Many foreign expats live in China over a year, go to youtube and check how China changed their views.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=living+in+china



A bunch of Westerners singing praises to China is nothing. For every Westerner praising China, there are 10 not praising China on the internet...

You're fight a losing battle. 


beijingwalker said:


> We have years of experience living in both China and the west, we do the comparison. unless you brainwashed bunch, always live in your own fantacy, no wonder your development comes to a standstill.



We love Pakistan and the US. Both have something to offer which the other doesn't. We both hate the CCP, not the Chinese people, equally. 

And what "development" are you talking about??


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Metal 0-1 said:


> This stupid CCP commie bot needs a little update.
> 
> He is acting like a retard
> 
> And this gives Chaina commie reatards to do the same.
> 
> Ever heard about Tienanmen Square massacre.


oh so CIA robots can no longer accept any facts.

You said I was a CCP robot. Because you believe that the CCP will not sanction Pakistan?


Metal 0-1 said:


> This stupid CCP commie bot needs a little update.
> 
> He is acting like a retard
> 
> And this gives Chaina commie reatards to do the same.
> 
> Ever heard about Tienanmen Square massacre.


Come on, robot. Do you want China and the US to sanction Pakistan together? WOW. Are you so brave? 

Who do you think you are? Do you forget how failed your country is when you read too much western news?


----------



## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> We love Pakistan and the US. Both have something to offer which the other doesn't. We both hate the CCP, not the Chinese people, equally.
> 
> And what "development" are you talking about??


Who are "we"?


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Metal 0-1 said:


> This stupid CCP commie bot needs a little update.
> 
> He is acting like a retard
> 
> And this gives Chaina commie reatards to do the same.
> 
> Ever heard about Tienanmen Square massacre.


hey. robot. I'm not looking down on you. The CCP doesn't even need to sanction you. In fact, the CCP only needs to be neutral in the UN....... Other countries will make Pakistan desperate. Lolllllllllllllllllllll....

Listen, what's the sound "bomb, bomb, bomb". hahahahahahaha


----------



## zectech

Uygur cotton grower angered by 'forced labor' allegations


While busy preparing for this year's cotton-planting season, Mijit Yimit, a Uygur cotton grower in Kuqa, Aksu Prefecture, southern Xinjiang, said he felt angered by recent statements from some international brands.




news.cgtn.com


----------



## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> We have years of experience living in both China and the west, we do the comparison. unless you brainwashed bunch, always live in your own fantacy, no wonder your development comes to a standstill.
> 
> Many foreign expats live in China over a year, go to youtube and check how China changed their views.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=living+in+china



OMG this is just getting ridiculous now

this Jason white Englishman is very famous for hating himself and is own colour

he is a well known troll who left UK because he couldn't get a job so started freelancing in China and is now paid by state to make all sorts of bizarre videos including ones where he goes to the famous "cat and dog" street in Beijing claiming Chinese dont eat cats and dogs, totally fake, check out his Youtube channel pro-China lacky he is

and you consider this a credible source ? no wonder China has a image problem in the West

no wonder Westerns ruined Huawei you guys make the most stupid mistakes

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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> OMG this is just getting ridiculous now
> 
> this Jason white Englishman is very famous for hating himself and is own colour
> 
> he is a well known troll who left UK because he couldn't get a job so started freelancing in China and is now paid by state to make all sorts of bizarre videos including ones where he goes to the famous "cat and dog" street in Beijing claiming Chinese dont eat cats and dogs, totally fake, check out his Youtube channel pro-China lacky he is
> 
> and you consider this a credible source ? no wonder China has a image problem in the West
> 
> no wonder Westerns ruined Huawei you guys make the most stupid mistakes


OMG this is just getting ridiculous now..
Check the link again, it's not one specific video, it's the search results of all foreign expats videos about their life experience in China.


----------



## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> OMG this is just getting ridiculous now..
> Check the link again, it's not one specific video, it's the search results of all foreign expats videos about their life experience in China.



videos shot by expats on Chinese pay roll are not considered authentic ,

Try again

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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> videos shot by expats on Chinese pay roll are not considered authentic ,
> 
> Try again


It's a random search, how can you tell they are all on China's pay roll? China haters video like "serpentza" "laowhy86" are also in the search results, are they also on China's pay roll?


----------



## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> It's a random search, how can you tell they are all on China's pay roll? China haters video like "laowhy86" are also in the search results, are they also on China's pay roll?



Youtube by a foreigner is not a credible source, maybe only in China but not rest of the World

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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> Youtube by a foreigner is not a credible source, maybe only in China but not rest of the World


Lol, so their personal life video in China are not credible source, what are credible sources in your mind? the ones that reported Iraq possessed WMD?

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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> Lol, so their personal life video in China are not credible source, what are credible sources in your mind? the ones that reported Iraq possessed WMD?



Chinese source is not credible, keep trying

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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> Chinese source is not credible, keep trying


Those youtubers are not Chinese, they just live or lived or traveled in China.


----------



## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> Those youtubers are not Chinese, they just live or lived or traveled in China.



any random Youtuber cannot be considered credible source of information


----------



## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> any random Youtuber cannot be considered credible source of information


But you still haven't answer me on which source you believe is reliable, more reliable than foreign expats who really live in China for years.


----------



## Metal 0-1

SBUS-CXK said:


> oh so CIA robots can no longer accept any facts.
> 
> You said I was a CCP robot. Because you believe that the CCP will not sanction Pakistan?
> 
> Come on, robot. Do you want China and the US to sanction Pakistan together? WOW. Are you so brave?
> 
> Who do you think you are? Do you forget how failed your country is when you read too much western news?





SBUS-CXK said:


> hey. robot. I'm not looking down on you. The CCP doesn't even need to sanction you. In fact, the CCP only needs to be neutral in the UN....... Other countries will make Pakistan desperate. Lolllllllllllllllllllll....
> 
> Listen, what's the sound "bomb, bomb, bomb". hahahahahahaha


Woah! that's a major bug in this CCP bot


----------



## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> But you still haven't answer me on which source you believe is reliable, more reliable than foreign expats who really live in China for years.



in Western standards we have something called standards, in China no such thing , only state sponsored propaganda

when something happens we have independent media with independent judiciary system who can verify claims

I know you cant understand the concept, you were not born in this type of open system, since you are obviously being monitored by Chinese authorities , so I will leave it to you to work it out

a twitter account or youtube is not credible source of information

inviting independent media organisation from outside with unrestricted access to all site would constitutes a credible source, with no Chinese minders and police


----------



## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> in Western standards we have something called standards, in China no such thing , only state sponsored propaganda
> 
> when something happens we have independent media with independent judiciary system who can verify claims
> 
> I know you cant understand the concept, you were not born in this type of open system, since you are obviously being monitored by Chinese authorities , so I will leave it to you to work it out
> 
> a twitter account or youtube is not credible source of information
> 
> inviting independent media organisation from outside with unrestricted access to all site would constitutes a credible source, with no Chinese minders and police



We know and witnessed your standard first hand so many times in the history, we don't need you to specify it this much.


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

aziqbal said:


> in Western standards we have something called standards



Standards? Like what West displayed in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, and now in Kashmir?

So only Western sources are credible. You sir are fully brainwashed.


beijingwalker said:


> Showing Chinese ID cards on social media become a popular new trend in Xinjiang in support of Xinjiang and China amid western Xinjiang smearing campaign



Ma sha Allah. We will prevent the terrorism in Xinjiang and help support genuine peace and tranquility in the region. We don't want another Syria, Yemen, or Libya where Muslims are slaughtered for the West's designs.


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Standards? Like what West displayed in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, and now in Kashmir?
> 
> So only Western sources are credible. You sir are fully brainwashed.


At least he got honest and changed his flags to the UK. More Fakeistanis should do the same.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

ZeEa5KPul said:


> At least he got honest and changed his flags to the UK. More Fakeistanis should do the same.



Many of these diaspora kids are brainwashed by Muslim Brotherhood or Daesh. They don't know the reality. You can check yourself.

Imagine gay Daeshis, this is the world we live in.

I think PDF should have a strong policy against support for terrorism.

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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> Who are "we"?



Me & Aziqbal.......duh.


Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Ma sha Allah. We will prevent the terrorism in Xinjiang and help support genuine peace and tranquility in the region. We don't want another Syria, Yemen, or Libya where Muslims are slaughtered for the West's designs.



No, East Turkestan will be free again. Jihad Fi Sabilillah. 


Btw, Youtube is banned in China....so all those accounts are aimed at foreign audiences.....clearly cheap propaganda!

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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> We know and witnessed your standard first hand so many times in the history, we don't need you to specify it this much.



dont worry about us, worry for yourself 

and pointing to others wrongs doesnt make your argument right what a low intellect individual you are

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## Itachi

aziqbal said:


> dont worry about us, worry for yourself
> 
> and pointing to others wrongs doesnt make your argument right what a low intellect individual you are



You: China did this and that...

Wumao: Wait a sec....the US does the same! So we can do it to!

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## aziqbal

The evidence is clear: a genocide against the Uighurs is in progress. Britain must not put trade before human rights 
Fri 26 Mar 2021 15.40 GMTLast modified on Fri 26 Mar 2021 17.21 GMT







Guards at a ‘vocational skills education centre’ for Uighur people in Huocheng County, Xinjiang, 2018. Photograph: Thomas Peter/Reuters

It came as no surprise to me that I have been included on the list of those sanctioned by the Chinese government for vocal criticisms of the human rights abuses towards Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang province. China is not big on freedom of speech.
In the “tit-for-tat game that is part of foreign relations, this action is of little consequence. On a personal level, I will be sad not to visit China again, as I have great admiration for many Chinese academics and human rights advocates with whom I have had contact. However, I have no assets to freeze, no investments and no secret property, and my legal work seeking to protect human rights will go on as before.
As a lawyer, my position on China’s conduct is evidence-based. We have all seen the clear aggression against the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong. I fear for close lawyer friends there, such as Martin Lee and Margaret Ng, who are in peril because of their courageous protection of the rule of law.




Read more
On the egregious crimes against the Uighur, I have heard directly the testimonies of those who have suffered, especially exiled women who have been sexually abused and raped, sterilised or forced to terminate pregnancies. Some have been separated from children, who are sent to remand homes to be deracinated – denied their religion and culture. I have seen the aerial photographs showing the destruction of mosques and burial grounds. I have heard from well-connected academics of forced labour, of the large numbers held in re-education camps and the coerced movement of villagers to work in other parts of China.
International lawyers are currently debating whether the available evidence amounts to genocide. But to my mind the evidential pointers are clear: a genocide is indeed in progress. The genocide convention requires signatory nations in order to prevent genocide, not to merely wring our hands about it when it is over.
China is as a dominant power in our world. It is taking a lead on climate change, which is to be admired. And its belt-and-road policy has seen it offer strong infrastructure assistance to developing countries in parts of Asia, Africa and elsewhere. The downside of this strategic support is that the indebtedness of less powerful countries is reflected in the support China is able to enjoy at the UN.
Because of its economic muscle, China is able to go about its business in the world untroubled by the consequences of its crimes. The desire for good trading relations is a great silencer, and even majority-Muslim nations have often failed to denounce what is happening to their co-religionists in Xinjiang. I do not want to see a return to cold war politics, but the consensus that was created after the second world war around a rules-based order is now under constant threat. The values that informed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and all the subsequent international conventions are being trashed.
* China has detained my young children. I don't know if I'll ever see them again*
Mihriban Kader 


Read more

When challenged, the UK government says that only a designated courtshould decide whether China is committing genocide. What it means by this is that nations against which such an allegation is made normally go before the international court of justice. Individuals who have authored such crimes are brought before the international criminal court.
Indeed it is right that courts are the best place for such serious determinations. But in this instance, it is a catch-22: China entered a “reservation” with regard to the jurisdiction of the international court of justice, which means it will not accept its authority on matters such as genocide. As for the international criminal court, China was not a signatory of the Rome statute which created that court.
That leaves us with no international court to determine the issue, which is why the Liberal peer David Alton and I pushed hard in the House of Lords for the creation of a procedure that would have enabled the English high court to make a determination on whether the evidence reached the threshold for genocide.
Since that effort was defeated, we are pressing for the creation of a House of Lords committee of former senior judges to conduct such an assessment of the evidence on behalf of government.
This comes, of course, just as the leaders of “global Britain” eye opportunities for new trade negotiations. But there should be no letup in shaming China for what is happening, and the UK should be clear and forceful. Human rights must come before trade.

Helena Kennedy QC is a Labour peer



... we have a small favour to ask. Through these turbulent and challenging times, millions rely on the Guardian for independent journalism that stands for truth and integrity. Readers chose to support us financially more than 1.5 million times in 2020, joining existing supporters in 180 countries.

With your help, we will continue to provide high-impact reporting that can counter misinformation and offer an authoritative, trustworthy source of news for everyone. With no shareholders or billionaire owner, we set our own agenda and provide truth-seeking journalism that’s free from commercial and political influence. When it’s never mattered more, we can investigate and challenge without fear or favour. 

Unlike many others, we have maintained our choice: to keep Guardian journalism open for all readers, regardless of where they live or what they can afford to pay. We do this because we believe in information equality, where everyone deserves to read accurate news and thoughtful analysis. Greater numbers of people are staying well-informed on world events, and being inspired to take meaningful action.

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## aziqbal

SBUS-CXK said:


> hey. robot. I'm not looking down on you. The CCP doesn't even need to sanction you. In fact, the CCP only needs to be neutral in the UN....... Other countries will make Pakistan desperate. Lolllllllllllllllllllll....
> 
> Listen, what's the sound "bomb, bomb, bomb". hahahahahahaha



7 countries are sending Carriers + warships to South China Sea 

wait till the summer 2021 more fun is coming, enjoy

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> 7 countries are sending Carriers + warships to South China Sea
> 
> wait till the summer 2021 more fun is coming, enjoy



They can have a good look at the most prosperous city in South China Sea. Because they have nothing that can compare.


----------



## aziqbal

Tai Hai Chen said:


> They can have a good look at the most prosperous city in South China Sea. Because they have nothing that can compare.



no thanks they will probably sink in next few years due to global warming, building these was most stupid idea, china should have used the money to feed its people soon will be the fish


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> no thanks they will probably sink in next few years due to global warming, building these was most stupid idea, china should have used the more to feed its people soon will be the fish



No such thing as global warming. Even if there is, it happens over thousands of years. BTW, China will be having settlements on Mars by then. Come May China will deploy rover on Mars.


----------



## Dalit

These Westerners and their crocodile tears. It is getting boring.

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## aziqbal

Tai Hai Chen said:


> No such thing as global warming. Even if there is, it happens over thousands of years. BTW, China will be having settlements on Mars by then. Come May China will deploy rover on Mars.



I understand but to learn about these things you need to come outside China as everything in china is restricted and so is alot of information, btw China has not yet put a man on moon yet, maybe according to Chinese state media they have but they haven't 

must be terrible living in China no real news

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> btw China has not yet put a man on moon yet,



China won't put man on moon until droids build a function base first. Droids are less risky than putting men and bringing them back. Ever seen the movie Martian? The guy almost died.


----------



## aziqbal

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China won't put man on moon until droids build a function base first. Droids are less risky than putting men and bringing them back. Ever seen the movie Martian? The guy almost died.



sorry to tell you its only a Hollywood movie for goodness sake 

Chinese have no access to Google from China? just search the movie


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen




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## LeGenD

aziqbal said:


> no thanks they will probably sink in next few years due to global warming, building these was most stupid idea, china should have used the money to feed its people soon will be the fish


China have lifted a large number of people out of poverty. Chinese socioeconomic development programs are impressive.

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## zectech

SBUS-CXK said:


> Lol, I guess Pakistan is not on this list.



Watch.

Don't fall for the bait from the pom-pom cheerleaders who enjoy the US-Pakistan alliance where Pakistan get drone striked and tens of thousands of Pakistan civilians are slaughtered. These cia trolls don't care one bit about Pakistan. Nor do these trolls represent Pakistan.

The Pakistanis you should care about are those crying because their loved ones were killed by Washington.


----------



## shjliu

Indos said:


> Stupid logic ????
> 
> Here the decline is so sharp in Xinjiang compared to nationwide decline. Even it gets below average in just 2 years span, despite Uigyur is not part of China 2 child policy.
> 
> View attachment 723556



you should consider young Uygyur people move to other part of China，so the chart is meaningless.


----------



## Nan Yang

By the Coalition To Stop The War.

This is a long video. I had not intended to watch the whole thing but when I started. I could not stop. 
Start from 11:00 for the interesting portion.

Video Timestamps: 
0:00 Introduction 
11:02 Daniel Dumbrill's Presentation 
24:43 Mme. LU Xu's Presentation 
45:50 Omar Latif's Presentation 
1:09:08 Max Blumenthal's Presentation 
1:34:39 Q&A

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## Nan Yang

LeGenD said:


> China have lifted a large number of people out of poverty. Chinese socioeconomic development programs are impressive.


If you watch the video I just posted above. You will see that the United States, by targeting Xinjiang cotton industry is actually trying to destroy this poverty program that China has been using to successfully lift Uighurs out of poverty.

Their motive are very sinister.


----------



## beijingwalker

*Views of Xinjiang Uyghur Girl living in Germany on the "Xinjiang Cotton" Incident*
She says she decides to make this video because this Xinjiang and China smearing campaign by US is just too much and can no longer be tolerated. Slave labor in cotton plantations was created by US and now they shamelessly accuse China of doing what they did in the history.
She talked with her boyfriend, which is a German, about this issue too, and her German boyfriend told her that most educated and well informed German younger generation know it's just a trick by US to contain China, US never cares about Uighurs or Xinjiang, they only care about themselves.
She concludes that the reason for US to do this is because China now is so prosperous, powerful and rich, US is scared of China and tries to pull all stops to contain China's meteoric rise.
In the end of the video she appeals to the viewers not to be fooled by US, and we Chinese people should always remeber to think and form perspectives from the interests and benefits of our own country. As long as we are united as one, no force in this world can stop us from reaching the greatness.

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## JSCh

beijingwalker said:


> She concludes that the reason for US to do this is because China now is so prosperous, powerful and rich, US is scared of China and tries to pull all stops to contain China's meteoric rise.


Remind me of this term named after an American,








Tonya Harding Syndrome


Definition of Tonya Harding Syndrome in the Medical Dictionary by The Free Dictionary




medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com


----------



## beijingwalker

An Uighur gils visits Chengdu H&M store at the weekend and is so happy to see the store is almost empty with few few costumers, she gives Chengdu people's patriotism two thumbs up, in the end of the video she performs a Xinjiang dance in front of H&M entrance.


----------



## beijingwalker

Xinjiang cotton


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## Char

beijingwalker said:


> *Views of Xinjiang Uyghur Girl living in Germany on the "Xinjiang Cotton" Incident*
> She says she decides to make this video because this Xinjiang and China smearing campaign by US is just too much and can no longer be tolerated. Slave labor in cotton plantations was created by US and now they shamelessly accuse China of doing what they did in the history.
> She talked with her boyfriend, which is a German, about this issue too, and her German boyfriend told her that most educated and well informed German younger generation know it's just a trick by US to contain China, US never cares about Uighurs or Xinjiang, they only care about themselves.
> She concludes that the reason for US to do this is because China now is so prosperous, powerful and rich, US is scared of China and tries to pull all stops to contain China's meteoric rise.
> In the end of the video she appeals to the viewers not to be fooled by US, and we Chinese people should always remeber to think and form perspectives from the interests and benefits of our own country. As long as we are united as one, no force in this world can stop us from reaching the greatness.



It would be better for her to add English subtitles.


----------



## Nan Yang

Max Blumenthal debunk US accusations of China's "genocide" against Uighurs


----------



## Mirzah

Freedom for Kashmir and East Turkestan

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## beijingwalker

Mirzah said:


> Freedom for Kashmir and East Turkestan


Why do you want to break up Turkestan?


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## Mirzah

beijingwalker said:


> Why do you want to break up Turkestan?


East Turkestan was a republic in history, it needs to be restored. 








First East Turkestan Republic - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org












Second East Turkestan Republic - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## beijingwalker

Mirzah said:


> East Turkestan was a republic in history, it needs to be restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First East Turkestan Republic - Wikipedia
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second East Turkestan Republic - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Everyone can set up a republic, you can set up one in your bathroom too.

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## Mista

This is why I don't trust the Western media on the Uighur issue.
Plagiarism, selective reporting to push a narrative, and outright deception.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mirzah said:


> East Turkestan was a republic in history, it needs to be restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First East Turkestan Republic - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second East Turkestan Republic - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



There are loads of republics in Russia too.


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## T-SaGe

Mirzah said:


> First East Turkestan Republic - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Second East Turkestan Republic - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Once upon a time in East Turkestan

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

T-SaGe said:


> Once upon a time in East Turkestan



It was a satellite state of USSR. It seceded from China with support from USSR. PRC then took it back.









Second East Turkestan Republic - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Mirzah

Tai Hai Chen said:


> It was a satellite state of USSR. It seceded from China with support from USSR. PRC then took it back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second East Turkestan Republic - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


now such a congregation is not possible thanks to CCP's cultural genocide policy



beijingwalker said:


> Everyone can set up a republic, you can set up one in your bathroom too.


 CCP did too much oppression and culture genocide, a state should serve its people not a proletariat, here the state is hunting its own people


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## T-SaGe

Especially after Chen Quanguo became secretary of Xinjiang, this seems obviously..


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## sinait

Mirzah said:


> now such a congregation is not possible thanks to CCP's cultural genocide policy
> 
> CCP did too much oppression and culture genocide, a state should serve its people not a proletariat, here the state is hunting its own people


Thankfully, else that congregational cluster of COVID-19 will wipe out the Uighurs.
The Uighurs are lucky to have the CCP leaders looking after them.

Building so many Mosques for them.
.


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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> Why do you want to break up Turkestan?



we dont, we want Turkestans people to hold referendum and decide for themselves what they want, if they want to stay in China fine no problem 

if they want a Republic of East Turkistan then they should get it also no problem, let the people decide 

all Ughurs living abroad have called for this and China has a obligation to grant freedom 

if not, then there is many other ways

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## Mirzah

sinait said:


> Thankfully, else that congregational cluster of COVID-19 will wipe out the Uighurs.
> The Uighurs are lucky to have the CCP leaders looking after them.
> 
> Building so many Mosques for them.
> .


is it all a lie? there is no mass internment, forced labor, torture, ban on ramadan, mosque demolitions going on, the whole world hates hans, its a conspiracy against hans


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mirzah said:


> now such a congregation is not possible thanks to CCP's cultural genocide policy



They still have that.


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## aziqbal

Tai Hai Chen said:


> They still have that.



Great it was shot in 2015, crackdown started after that 

keep trolling

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> we dont, we want Turkestans people to hold referendum and decide for themselves what they want, if they want to stay in China fine no problem



Catalans held referendum to secede from Spain and Spain did not allow that. What makes you think China would allow Xinjiang to secede considering it's China's biggest region and vital for the New Silk Road to EU which brings a lot of money?

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## Mirzah

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Catalans held referendum to secede from Spain and Spain did not allow that. What makes you think China would allow Xinjiang to secede considering it's China's biggest region and vital for the New Silk Road to EU which brings a lot of money?



Watch this report and tell us your lies and excuses, justifying this horrible immoral treatment


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mirzah said:


> Watch this report and tell us your lies and excuses, justifying this horrible immoral treatment



Well, that's pretty much what you get for being vanquished. Life is bad for the vanquished.


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## Mirzah

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Well, that's pretty much what you get for being vanquished. Life is bad for the vanquished.


are uighurs not equal stakeholder in your state as hans? CCP is supposed to stand for "common good" but have turned into ethnic fascists

this is another "paid actor" by CIA


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## sinait

Mirzah said:


> is it all a lie? there is no mass internment, forced labor, torture, ban on ramadan, mosque demolitions going on, the whole world hates hans, its a conspiracy against hans


You are unbelievably *GULLIBLE*, even after the US *killed MILLIONS OF MUSLIMS based on the Iraq WMD LIE*.
The US admitted as much, that they LIED, CHEAT and STOLE all the time.

*BBC's report "Uyghur labor" Exposed | How msm brainwashes | China poverty alleviation called "evil"*




.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mirzah said:


> are uighurs not equal stakeholder in your state as hans? CCP is supposed to stand for "common good" but have turned into ethnic fascists
> 
> this is another "paid actor" by CIA



If they break the law, they go to jail. There's no affirmative action for minorities in China.


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## CAPRICORN-88




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## aziqbal

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Catalans held referendum to secede from Spain and Spain did not allow that. What makes you think China would allow Xinjiang to secede considering it's China's biggest region and vital for the New Silk Road to EU which brings a lot of money?



two wrong don't make a right what does that have to do with Ughurs?

China maybe wants to wait until civil unrests take root and then situation will be supported by outside countries and it will end badly for China, and this pattern of events has a long history in China

isn't it better you take action now and allow UN human rights commissioner entry to Xinjiang to fully investigate the matter and compile a 3rd party independent report on the Genocide taking place in Xinjiang and present to the UN security council


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> two wrong don't make a right what does that have to do with Ughurs?
> 
> China maybe wants to wait until civil unrests take root and then situation will be supported by outside countries and it will end badly for China, and this pattern of events has a long history in China
> 
> isn't it better you take action now and allow UN human rights commissioner entry to Xinjiang to fully investigate the matter and compile a 3rd party independent report on the Genocide taking place in Xinjiang and present to the UN security council



Uyghur separatists got crushed the way Chechen separatists got crushed. East Turkestan separatism hardly has any support in Xinjiang.


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## aziqbal

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Uyghur separatists got crushed the way Chechen separatists got crushed. East Turkestan separatism hardly has any support in Xinjiang.



no problem we can arrange the support from outside and like Republic of Chechneya we can form Republic of East Turkistan with free nations with own respective governments


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> no problem we can arrange the support from outside and like Republic of Chechneya we can form Republic of East Turkistan with free nations with own respective governments



No neighbor country allows the US to smuggle arms into Xinjiang. Not even Pakistan allows it.


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## sinait

aziqbal said:


> no problem we can arrange the support from outside and like Republic of Chechneya we can form Republic of East Turkistan with free nations with own respective governments


GO AHEAD.
What are you waiting for*?*
Don't love China too much.

Don't let China wait too long.
Perfect excuse for China to stir up things in Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales.
Pay back time for British Opium Gunboat Aggression.

Of course, *China not going to announce like BIG MOUTHS HERE*.
.


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## striver44

Hmmm why China hate Uyghurs so much?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen




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## striver44

I'm so sad r8 now, I hope everyone will help Uyghurs.

East Turkestan needs an access to the Pacific once it becomes a country.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

striver44 said:


> I'm so sad r8 now, I hope everyone will help Uyghurs.
> 
> East Turkestan needs an access to the Pacific once it becomes a country.





striver44 said:


> I'm so sad r8 now, I hope everyone will help Uyghurs.
> 
> East Turkestan needs an access to the Pacific once it becomes a country.



East Turkestan is more than only Uyghurs. There are Pamiris too who speak an Iranian language.


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## striver44

Tai Hai Chen said:


> East Turkestan is more than only Uyghurs. There are Pamiris too who speak an Iranian language.


Yez, they are also tortured.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

striver44 said:


> I'm so sad r8 now, I hope everyone will help Uyghurs.
> 
> East Turkestan needs an access to the Pacific once it becomes a country.



East Turkestan is by now Han majority. Only remote cities like Kashgar are still Muslim majority. Once high speed rail is connected to these cities they also become Han majority due to Han immigration. The window of freedom is closing fast.


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> Yeah. Terrorists always have a lot of fantasies. But are you sure your country can withstand Chinese sanctions?
> 
> I don't seem to see the courage of Western media to promote "East istan". So these dogs may misunderstand the courage of their owners.
> 
> Like East Pakistan?


Indonesia will follow behind once the west liberate China.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

striver44 said:


> Indonesia will follow behind once the west liberate China.



They don't dare fight China because nuke.


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## striver44

Tai Hai Chen said:


> They don't dare fight China because nuke.


China doesn't have working nukes.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

striver44 said:


> China doesn't have working nukes.



Nuke is for poor countries like Iran, North Korea. Rich countries like China use strategic bombers.


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> What did the West tell you? incidentally. In order to be slaughtered by 30% of the ethnic minorities in Indonesia. The China coast guard should liberate Indonesia... yes. I look down on Indonesia.


I don't seem to understand, why Chinese like to torture Uyghurs so much, it's like sport for these people. 


Thanks to my efforts here and the west in general many people will stand up more for the Uyghurs.


SBUS-CXK said:


> Indonesia does not have any modern weapons. You use knives to kill 30% of the minorities.


Indonesia will provide the peacekeepers once China capitulate.


----------



## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> Please do not explain any facts to Indonesia. They slaughtered 30% of the ethnic minorities. Indonesia is an extremely fanatical country.
> 
> China hates Uighur? It's like Indonesia slaughtered 30% of the ethnic minorities??


So why rape their women? And ki their babies? I think Indonesian peacekeepers in Xinjiang will be a huge contribution once we got there.


----------



## Char

striver44 said:


> I don't seem to understand, why Chinese like to torture Uyghurs so much, it's like sport for these people.
> 
> 
> Thanks to my efforts here and the west in general many people will stand up more for the Uyghurs.
> 
> Indonesia will provide the peacekeepers once China capitulate.



Indonesians don’t jump up and down, be careful to count your new and old hatreds together.


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## striver44

Char said:


> Indonesians don’t jump up and down, be careful to count your new and old hatreds together.


Yes, please don't use kamikaze attacks when we deploy our peacekeepers in the near future.


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## Char

striver44 said:


> Yes, please don't use kamikaze attacks when we deploy our peacekeepers in the near future.



You have no strength to brag about it.


----------



## striver44

Char said:


> You have no strength to brag about it.


No, the US will nuke you, occupy and divide the country. Then they will deploy UN peacekeepers to check for leftover CCP radicals. I think Indonesia will be part of the peacekeeping forces consider Indonesia history of deploying peacekeepers worldwide.


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## Char

striver44 said:


> No, the US will nuke you, occupy and divide the country. Then they will deploy UN peacekeepers to check for leftover CCP radicals. I think Indonesia will be part of the peacekeeping forces consider Indonesia history of deploying peacekeepers worldwide.



The possibility of a US nuclear attack on Indonesia is greater than a US nuclear attack on China because there is no risk. You count on the United States and you have already lost.


----------



## striver44

Char said:


> The possibility of a US nuclear attack on Indonesia is greater than a US nuclear attack on China because there is no risk. You count on the United States and you have already lost.


China nuke isn't working so there will be no MAD. 

We will have to increase peacekeeping troops, 1.4B people is a large population to control.


----------



## Beast

Mirzah said:


> now such a congregation is not possible thanks to CCP's cultural genocide policy
> 
> CCP did too much oppression and culture genocide, a state should serve its people not a proletariat, here the state is hunting its own people



Cultures Genocide? Like how? Create special Uyghur channel and promoting their culture. 






There are many countries that even ban minorities language or to mention prohibit the use of it.









Agence France-Presse: New law stokes Ukraine language tensions - KyivPost - Ukraine's Global Voice


Galyna Lekunova, a veterinarian in the eastern Ukrainian city of Mariupol, was left fuming by a new law in January mandating the use of Ukrainian in the service industry. Read more here. Found a spelling error? Let us know – highlight it and press Ctrl + Enter.




www.kyivpost.com





And we see fool easily believe hearsay and target the wrong one.

Kurdish can't even speak their own language only until by 2002 in Turkey.

Xinjiang TV with Uyghur language , drama started in China as early as 80s when television station and TV arrives in common in China.









Xinjiang Television - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





And we have smart alec claiming Chinese are genocide their culture. Uyghur shall thank CPC for increasing their population, improve their standard of living and help to preserve their culture.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

striver44 said:


> No, the US will nuke you, occupy and divide the country. Then they will deploy UN peacekeepers to check for leftover CCP radicals. I think Indonesia will be part of the peacekeeping forces consider Indonesia history of deploying peacekeepers worldwide.



@waz @WebMaster


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> A backward country as Indonesia. You must have just learned to use the Internet. I'm curious about one thing. do you Indonesia have electricity ?
> 
> I heard that the only industry in Indonesia is maids. And their service was very good. Especially the mouth skills... your mouth skills are also very good. Are you a maid, too?


Don't worry we wont let you sell your children once our peacekeepers are deployed.










SBUS-CXK said:


> Look. The mouth skills of a maid from a backward country.


Yez, we will teach you how to talk later on, just learn to speak bahasa, it'll help u.


----------



## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> Oh, yes. But the China coast guard will still save the Indonesian people. Let's realize the freedom and liberation of Indonesia.


Just make sure you don't sell your children next time.


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> Indonesian maids fantasize about so many things when they serve our Chinese men.
> 
> View attachment 730115
> View attachment 730116


Don't worry we will feed u, unlike mao


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> You know, to be honest, your skills are so good. Did you learn from your mother?
> 
> The maid's national skill is really good.


Hmm just make sure your women doesn't turn into prostitution, we're not sex predators either.


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> Although the maid's skill is very good. But Indonesia is still a poor and backward country. Even Xinjiang is still 20 years ahead of you. Look. You never deny it.


Hmmm superpower of the world. Hmmmm


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> I love Indonesian maids. LOL.


Hmmmm advanced asian civilization here lmao


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> But Xinjiang is still 20 years ahead of Indonesia. I don't even need to show how poor and backward Indonesia is. Because everyone knows.


Yes very advanced civilization. Just don't defecate like thiz lmao


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> Indonesian maids like to serve Chinese men very much. LOL.


Don't worry we will teach you how to be civilized once our peacekeepers came.


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> Indonesian maids still like to serve Chinese men. Because we lead Indonesia into a modern civilized society. LOL.
> 
> View attachment 730136


Yes, we like it having our asses inside chinese slaves products such as these. Just please build it with a toilet, we can't stand chinese civilization like this.






SBUS-CXK said:


> This is the HSR that China built for Indonesia. LOL.
> 
> Garbage Indonesia. How backward. LOL.
> 
> View attachment 730130
> 
> View attachment 730131
> View attachment 730132
> View attachment 730133
> View attachment 730134
> 
> 
> A backward country like Indonesia should thank China. We give you high-speed rail. Come on, Indonesian maid, start your mouth service.
> 
> View attachment 730135
> 
> 
> Welcome to the modern civilized society. LOL.


Lmao rat eating nation like china should be enlightened very soon. Just can't stand these chinese civilization.


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> China helps Indonesia get closer to modern civilization.
> 
> View attachment 730141
> 
> 
> hey. you don't have electricity now?


don't worry my boy, Indonesian peacekeeper will build toilets for you. Even if it's hard we will do it.


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> China helps Indonesia get closer to modern civilization.
> 
> View attachment 730142
> 
> 
> Save Indonesia.
> View attachment 730143
> View attachment 730144
> View attachment 730145
> View attachment 730146


hmmmm I only wish those western corporation who exploited chinese slaves worker for profit could at least provide them with decent bathroom.

now You'll have to wait for our peacekeepers to provide u one.


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## Beast

SBUS-CXK said:


> 不讨论一下俾路支，东巴基斯坦，印尼排华吗？
> 兄弟们，听我的，进攻，进攻，再进攻！集中兵力打俾路支，东巴，印尼。分兵骚扰北美印第安人，澳洲土著，欧洲吉普赛！文攻武赫，国力证明一切。


不要让一些无知的假八搞颠覆。中国还是有很多好巴铁人支持我们的。


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730151
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open defecation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open defecation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 730152
> 
> 
> Why do Indonesian maids like to insult themselves? Because the IQ is too low?


Lmao just checked the link, China super civilization is among with Ethipia, Eritrea lmao.

Primitive people who defecate like this in other countries will need peacekeepers to train them how to defecate properly.      


*“This is normal in China!” – Woman who brings her grandson to poop in public lashes out at Singaporeans*


talking about IQ, mine is 130, meanwhile Chinese national average is like 104


----------



## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> *BUT 26 million Indonesians Open defecation......   *
> 
> *How backward is Indonesia. You don't have to cover it up. LOL. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open defecation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 730154


So called advanced China are among India, Indonesia, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Cambodia.....LMAO          

*Cleaner in China gets beaten up for stopping boy from pooping on the street*

Now this is what happened when your entire pop is basically slaves working in factories making goods,


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> Improving access to water, sanitation and hygiene (WASH) in Indonesia (Story of Change)
> 
> 
> Learn more about the Voice for Change Partnership (V4CP) project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snv.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While the Indonesian economy has grown significantly in recent years, one in eight households still do not have access to safe drinking water and over 30 million people in the country still practice open defecation[1]. To tackle this, the government set up a national Community-Led Total Sanitation programme - Program Sanitasi Total Berbasis Masyarakat (STBM) - in 2006, yet implementing it amongst communities across the country’s 17,000 islands remains a monumental challenge.
> 
> View attachment 730155


woah whoa *Advanced civilization China    *

*What are you dung? Chinese tourists defecate on port Dickson*

*



*


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> OK. OK. 30 million Indonesians shit on the streets. You need to cover up.
> 
> ￼https://snv.org/update/story-change-improving-access-water-sanitation-and-hygiene-wash-indonesia
> 
> While the Indonesian economy has grown significantly in recent years, one in eight households still do not have access to safe drinking water and over 30 million people in the country still practice open defecation[1]. To tackle this, the government set up a national Community-Led Total Sanitation programme - Program Sanitasi Total Berbasis Masyarakat (STBM) - in 2006, yet implementing it amongst communities across the country’s 17,000 islands remains a monumental challenge.
> 
> lollllllllllll
> 
> 300 million......... Now every Indonesian who open defecates is regarded as "Chinese". So... Indonesia is eager to join China! LOL！


Oh noo, China is in the level of Indonesia now OMG     

not only that , in the spirit of being the world largest exporters, China appears to export public defecators abroad.


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> While the Indonesian economy has grown significantly in recent years, one in eight households still do not have access to safe drinking water and over 30 million people in the country still practice open defecation[1]. To tackle this, the government set up a national Community-Led Total Sanitation programme - Program Sanitasi Total Berbasis Masyarakat (STBM) - in 2006, yet implementing it amongst communities across the country’s 17,000 islands remains a monumental challenge.
> 
> ………………………………
> 
> Now every Indonesian who open defecates is regarded as "Chinese". Lollll. good jpb. I thought you were only good at being a maid. LOL.


I thought you're being best recognized abroad being public defecators Lmao

*Thailand releases behaviour guide for Chinese tourists*


bery bery advanced civilization here


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## sinait

striver44 said:


> Hmm just make sure your women doesn't turn into prostitution, we're not sex predators either.
> View attachment 730119


Why are you showing us *INDONESIAN WOMEN FORCED INTO PROSTITUTION?*
By showing us the Japanese FORCED INDONESIAN WOMEN INTO PROSTITUTION, I am very sure you cannot be an Indonesian, more likely an Indian in Indonesia or an INDIAN MAID working for Indians in Indonesia.









Indonesian Comfort Women Seek Justice as Time Runs Out - Desmond Tutu Foundation USA


The term Jugun Ianfu (Comfort Women) refers to those women who were forced into sexual slavery to fulfill the sexual needs...



www.tutufoundationusa.org




*Indonesian Comfort Women Seek Justice as Time Runs Out*
.


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730156
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> Open defecation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While the Indonesian economy has grown significantly in recent years, one in eight households still do not have access to safe drinking water and over 30 million people in the country still practice open defecation[1]. To tackle this, the government set up a national Community-Led Total Sanitation programme - Program Sanitasi Total Berbasis Masyarakat (STBM) - in 2006, yet implementing it amongst communities across the country’s 17,000 islands remains a monumental challenge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Improving access to water, sanitation and hygiene (WASH) in Indonesia (Story of Change)
> 
> 
> Learn more about the Voice for Change Partnership (V4CP) project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snv.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lollllllllll


hmm why censor the chinese part   
here let me gib u







please don't export defecators, we're enough with cheap chinese knockoffs

*[video] Chinese tourist poops at public bench in Thailand's *


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> Maid countries like to abuse themselves very much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open defecation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 730162
> 
> 
> While the Indonesian economy has grown significantly in recent years, one in eight households still do not have access to safe drinking water and over 30 million people in the country still practice open defecation[1]. To tackle this, the government set up a national Community-Led Total Sanitation programme - Program Sanitasi Total Berbasis Masyarakat (STBM) - in 2006, yet implementing it amongst communities across the country’s 17,000 islands remains a monumental challenge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Improving access to water, sanitation and hygiene (WASH) in Indonesia (Story of Change)
> 
> 
> Learn more about the Voice for Change Partnership (V4CP) project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snv.org


OMG, public defecator civilization is having a hard time getting slapped abroad   .

*Chinese tourist caught pooping at a Philippines tourist spot ...*


*BERY ADVANCED CIVILIZATIONS SINCE ANCIENT TIMES *


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> While the Indonesian economy has grown significantly in recent years, one in eight households still do not have access to safe drinking water and over 30 million people in the country still practice open defecation[1]. To tackle this, the government set up a national Community-Led Total Sanitation programme - Program Sanitasi Total Berbasis Masyarakat (STBM) - in 2006, yet implementing it amongst communities across the country’s 17,000 islands remains a monumental challenge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Improving access to water, sanitation and hygiene (WASH) in Indonesia (Story of Change)
> 
> 
> Learn more about the Voice for Change Partnership (V4CP) project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snv.org


Hmmmm     

*Chinese tourist caught pooping at a Philippines tourist spot ...*


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730164
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Open defecation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26 million Indonesians Open defecation......


yup world #1 exporters of Public defecators is in the list


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730168
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open defecation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
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> en.m.wikipedia.org


Advanced middle kingdom civilization is in the list with Eritrea and Ethiopia


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730173
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> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Open defecation - Wikipedia
> 
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> en.m.wikipedia.org


Advanced middle kingdom civilization is in the list with Eritrea and Ethiopia


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730175
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> 
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> Open defecation - Wikipedia
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> View attachment 730176
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> Open defecation - Wikipedia
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> en.m.wikipedia.org


Advanced middle kingdom civilization is in the list with Eritrea and Ethiopia


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730178
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Open defecation - Wikipedia
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> View attachment 730179
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> Open defecation - Wikipedia
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> en.m.wikipedia.org


Advanced middle kingdom civilization is in the list with Eritrea and Ethiopia


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730180
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open defecation - Wikipedia
> 
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> en.m.wikipedia.org


Advanced middle kingdom civilization is in the list with Eritrea and Ethiopia


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730179
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open defecation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
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> en.m.wikipedia.org


Advanced middle kingdom civilization is in the list with Eritrea and Ethiopia


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730182
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> Open defecation - Wikipedia
> 
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> en.m.wikipedia.org


Advanced middle kingdom civilization is in the list with Eritrea and Ethiopia


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730183
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> Open defecation - Wikipedia
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> en.m.wikipedia.org


Advanced middle kingdom civilization is in the list with Eritrea and Ethiopia


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730184
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> View attachment 730185
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> View attachment 730186
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> View attachment 730187
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> View attachment 730188


Advanced middle kingdom civilization is in the list with Eritrea and Ethiopia


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730190


Advanced middle kingdom civilization is in the list with Eritrea and Ethiopia


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> View attachment 730191


Advanced middle kingdom civilization is in the list with Eritrea and Ethiopia


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## striver44

SBUS-CXK said:


> *Any province in China is 30 years ahead of Indonesia. No problem.*


Very advanced 
Advanced middle kingdom civilization is in the list with Eritrea and Ethiopia


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Nash58

Tai Hai Chen said:


>


Thank You for the video. Finally i was able to breath some fresh air after the many sickening post above.
I dont understand why cant we engage with decency and humility instead of degrading society with post and pics like that. Why cant we agree to disagree and respect each other opinion. People have their own views and perspective in any issue. Why insults and mud slinging

Reactions: Like Like:
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## striver44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1376361976704638978


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen




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## beijingwalker

Teachers and students from Xinjiang Kashgar *vocational training schools *sing " Me And My Motherland"


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## beijingwalker

*Armenian Ambassador amazed by the development of Xinjiang in the past 5 years*

Armenian Ambassador to China was amazed by the development of Xinjiang in the past 5 years, he visited Xinjiang twice in the past 5 years and the massive development and progress amazed him, the changes almost unbelievable.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Song Hong

Some Uighurs will kill sons if necessary just to sleep with 72 virgins. Meanwhile USA are crying their human rights are infringed.


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## beijingwalker

*Visit a new village in once deeply impoverished Xinjiang Aksu desert region*
Visit a new village in once deeply impoverished Xinjinag Aksu desert region. This once impoverished region is "paired up‘’ with Zhengjiang province, so most new houses and other public facilities in this region was built and funded by Zhengjiang province. The visitor says she envies rural villagers in Xinjiang and government policies to support poor regions are highly effective.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## T-SaGe

SBUS-CXK said:


> So Indonesians are very extreme. The world should watch out for Indonesia. They may take revenge on the world by self destruction..



Would you write a little more clearly? What exactly are you trying to say with this?


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## ZeEa5KPul




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## aziqbal

ZeEa5KPul said:


>



this is Chinese state media CTGN claiming and counter claiming 

these are accusations not proven 

do we have any independent reporting on this issue ? and I dont mean from Chinese twitter accounts


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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> this is Chinese state media CTGN claiming and counter claiming
> 
> these are accusations not proven
> 
> do we have any independent reporting on this issue ? and I dont mean from Chinese twitter accounts


They also attacked Tiananmen square, Kunming railway station...what kind of proof do you want?


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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> They also attacked Tiananmen square, Kunming railway station...what kind of proof do you want?



But they were provoked


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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> But they were provoked


You can claim that all killings were provoked, there's no such a thing as terrorism.

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## beijingwalker

*Female Uyghur PLA officer leads her PLA female unit to patrol Xinjiang border regions*

Female Uyghur PLA officer leads her PLA female unit to patrol Xinjiang border regions and check the telecommunication equipments along the way

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dungeness

aziqbal said:


> But they were provoked



So can be said about 911.


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## aziqbal

Dungeness said:


> So can be said about 911.



in which case you would be correct


beijingwalker said:


> *Female Uyghur PLA officer leads her PLA female unit to patrol Xinjiang border regions*
> 
> Female Uyghur PLA officer leads her PLA female unit to patrol Xinjiang border regions and check the telecommunication equipments along the way



but this is from a Chinese youtube channel and all the videos in the profile are about Xinjiang freedom and how everyone there lives a happy life

so obviously a state sponsored video which means its bias 

do you have any independent reporting in China? or everything has to come from the government propaganda channels ?


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## beijingwalker

*Uyghur girl brings two of her Uyghur colleagues to show how different Uyghur looks can be*

This Uyghur girl was told many times that she looks like a Han girl, so she brings in two of her Uyghur colleagues to show how different Uyghur looks can be. One girl has very fair skin and natural blue eyes, not colored contacts. Another girl has much darker complexion similar to south Asians. The girl in the middle jokingly says the white skinned girl looks like a Russian and she herself looks like an average Chinese and the other maybe south Asian. In the end she concludes that Uyghurs don't have just one looks, although they belong to the same ethnicity, but still they can look very different.








aziqbal said:


> but this is from a Chinese youtube channel and all the videos in the profile are about Xinjiang freedom and how everyone there lives a happy life
> so obviously a state sponsored video which means its bias
> do you have any independent reporting in China? or everything has to come from the government propaganda channels ?


Do you mean this Uighur PLA officer is not a Uyghur or this whole video is fake?


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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> *Uyghur girl brings two of her Uyghur colleagues to show how different Uyghur looks can be*
> 
> This Uyghur girl was told many times that she looks like a Han girl, so she brings in two of her Uyghur colleagues to show how different Uyghur looks can be. One girl has very fair skin and natural blue eyes, not colored contacts. Another girl has much darker complexion similar to south Asians. The girl in the middle jokingly says the white skinned girl looks like a Russian and she herself looks like an average Chinese and the other maybe south Asian. In the end she concludes that Uyghurs don't have just one looks, although they belong to the same ethnicity, but still they can look very different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean this Uighur PLA officer is not a Uyghur or this whole video is fake?



this youtube channel is called Harry Wang all the videos are showing how free Tibet is, how happy HK residents are and how happy the Uyghur are, all posted within the last 1 week, so clearly its government backed propaganda videos which are bias

youtube is no a credible source of information, which is why I asked do you not have 3rd party free and independent reporting from China other than these propaganda youtube channels ?


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## Char

aziqbal said:


> this youtube channel is called Harry Wang all the videos are showing how free Tibet is, how happy HK residents are and how happy the Uyghur are, all posted within the last 1 week, so clearly its government backed propaganda videos which are bias
> 
> youtube is no a credible source of information, which is why I asked do you not have 3rd party free and independent reporting from China other than these propaganda youtube channels ?



Western media are not independent, but you still choose to believe it. In fact, you don’t even believe in Western media reporting on your country. Why do you believe in reporting on China?


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## Char

Tai Hai Chen said:


> No need to mind him. He's just a China hater. Check his threads.



He is still a think tank, and I really don't know where he bought the account.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen




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## aziqbal

Char said:


> Western media are not independent, but you still choose to believe it. In fact, you don’t even believe in Western media reporting on your country. Why do you believe in reporting on China?



then what are all those blue buildings in Xinjiang ?


Tai Hai Chen said:


>



this is state owned media CTGN channel 

do you have any independent reporting from Xinjing?


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## Char

aziqbal said:


> then what are all those blue buildings in Xinjiang ?
> 
> 
> this is state owned media CTGN channel
> 
> do you have any independent reporting from Xinjing?



Why are you thinking west media is independent?


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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> then what are all those blue buildings in Xinjiang ?
> 
> 
> this is state owned media CTGN channel
> 
> do you have any independent reporting from Xinjing?



These are som Uighur personal channels about their daily life on youtube, Nothing can be more independent than them, you can talk with then on youtube and ask them about their lives in Xinjiang by yourself.



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLQdazVVULqguehwaWNxUxg/videos




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRc63ZkXuzAWGzaJVEe_hxA/videos




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbAjX3EWsn3nBKTAPDgc01g/videos




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdxfDTc9C0d9SuSaMJ_W2UA/videos




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwBXKrZBx1vIB7-PFIndCdg/videos




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH_ckvMS0Mx50BeOw6nqlzQ/videos




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF2BSwglkv2X1sOwHo_cJFg/videos




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAN9yn8S_Ql3s7ZP9OCVhPw/videos




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDvOrqYUacFim7ibDmfYXBQ/videos




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeOY65D9EfVJtlfEQpZ1KWg/videos

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## beijingwalker

*Another big lie by the West: Xinjiang genocide – The Manila Times*
*April 4, 2021*

Without a single solid case, the genocide story is being peddled by Western media that over a million Uighur Muslims are being imprisoned, tortured and killed by China, and a new round of international multibillion dollar restrictions are being applied.

This is being widely spread in BBC, CNN, etc., even in various Philippine news organizations such as Rappler, Philippine Daily Inquirer and Philippine Star. On such a serious charge against an entire country, did they do research or is the usual planted data with conflicted sources being quoted and echoed around as facts — the way Western media did with the fake WMD (weapons of mass destruction) that became the excuse for invading Iraq that led to over a million civilians dead and takeover of the oil trade there? Is it the same with a dozen wars? What do the substantial facts show?








Possible “outright genocide,” according to Elfren Cruz. Did this intellectual or the supposed “fact checkers” bother to check or try to reconcile with their source of “genocide” the following?

No genocide but population growth. The population of the Uighurs grew every year in the last 40 years, growing 25 percent in the last 10 years. If China wanted to eliminate the Uighurs, why would it work for steep drops in maternal and infant mortality (life expectancy grew from 30 years to 72 years (higher than the Philippines’ 71 years) in the last few decades? Why did only three Uighurs die in the pandemic?

Opportunity, not economic marginalization. Xinjiang’s GDP grew more than 200 times; minimum wage is now $300 a month, per capita GDP is $6,700 and per capita disposable income is $2,500, much of which is now used for consumption goods, not just necessities. Many of the top celebrities and models in China are Uighurs.

Preferential treatment. The achievement requirement to enter schools and other places is lowered for Uighurs and other minorities who are given preferential treatment. The Uighur local writing is in China’s currency, investments for development have gone to Xinjiang over the decades causing economic growth (7.2 percent yearly) and living conditions higher than the Philippines’ average.

One million Uighurs in concentration camps? Outright fake news but always cited, orchestrated? World Uighur Congress Chairman Omer Kanat, source of information for the US, himself admits his group sources the information from “Western media” without actual verification of data and reports it to US legislators, agencies and media as facts. US media bounces it around the world as coming from the Uighurs themselves (admission http://bit.ly/TruthUighurCongress). Funding for the information is provided by the US-CIA-linked National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and other related military and state agencies.

The estimate of 1 million Uighurs being hamletted was arrived at by the BBC thru “researcher” Adrian Zenz, who is funded by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) and other “expert” groups that provided “satellite images” of buildings, presumed to be “empirical data,” from which they deduced and declared one million plus victims in “concentration camps.” The NED was caught funding the HK Rioters. In the Philippines, it funds Rappler and antigovernment nongovernment organizations.

The ASPI (owned by the Commonwealth) is funded also by the US State Department, US Department of Defense, Lockheed-Martin and Raytheon (which both use prison labor to produce trillion-dollar weapons like the F15 and F16). Circle for fake news creation completed.

The BBC and the CNN are accusing an entire nation of genocide. And Filipino writers quote them extensively, elaborating in detail, insinuating strongly the same. Do they have specifics? Where are the victim lists? How much of cited facts turned out to be wrong? Do they check the Western countries’ actions?

Fake news samples. The “Karakax list” of over 300 Uighurs supposedly detained because “all had overseas relations…” was “leaked” thru Zenz. The vast majority of the 300 are actually still living normal lives in their home county, have not even been to vocational classes, except for a few who had been affected by extremism. Only 19 have relatives abroad.

In 2014, Zenz (working for the BBC) released information that from the low 2.5 percent of China’s IUDs being fitted in Xinjiang, it became 80 percent to support the West’s allegations of a government mass sterilization program to suppress the population. It was actually 8.7 percent (Grayzone) and the Uighur population has been growing for decades. People said to have been “missing” were found living ordinary lives (“More US subversive farce: Uighur Rights Act, HK, Duterte,” The Manila Times, June 28, 2020). Zumrat claimed that she was forced to have surgical sterilization, but her own relatives said she needed it because of uterine issues with fibroid.

We suggest visits to the places and talks with people before we spread serious charges with vast consequences on entire nations, employers and business. We understand a columnist should be able to give opinions, but is it fair to spend a whole article describing in detail history’s horrific precedents and mentioning “systematic rape, sexual abuse, torture” and other charges just on the premise of “if true…,” and without also examining the positions, motivations and records of accuracy of the accusers, including governments and media outfits?

The West recently made the issue of Western brands’ using Xinjiang cotton, and the media played supporting attack dog again, grabbing images of Uighur people working in cotton fields, labeling them as “forced labor” but not identifying them or verifying their working conditions. Do our writers know most of cotton harvesting is now mechanized, mostly with US equipment — $500 million worth in the last few years alone, mostly John Deere tractors? The US asks China to purchase and invest more in the US but keeps on blocking everything at the same time and then accuses China of “nonfulfilment.”

Under what conditions are cotton pickers employed, what are the income and opportunities for the people through time? Is there forced labor? Is having a cotton-picking job necessarily not acceptable anymore? What about farming or fishing? Is this worth a very sudden worldwide embargo? The cotton and garment industries are growing so strongly such that it has been good for US brands, for Xinjiang workers (getting higher pay and more options) and China also. Why does the US launch a worldwide campaign to damage this? Probably because the industries are beneficial to the people of Xinjiang?

Lawrence Wilkerson, chief of staff of former US Secretary of State Colin Powell, feeling he can no longer back fake news to create wars for the war industry like in the fake WMD story, has revealed that one of the main reasons the US has interest in Xinjiang is to destabilize the Chinese internally, to disrupt economic projects of the Chinese government in the area and maintain America’s own power position in the Middle East. (http://bit.ly/WilkersonXinjiang )

Oppression of Uighurs Muslims? Forty-five countries, including major Muslim nations Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria and the United Arab Emirates, filed a position supporting China’s vocational, deradicalization and counter-terrorism programs after representatives visited and witnessed livelihood, reorientation programs as constructive initiatives that generate economic development, peace and prosperity for the region. They also noted that China invited more than 1,000 diplomats, officials of international organizations, journalists and religious persons to visit Xinjiang. Why do the BBC, the US media and the American government, and some of our Filipino brothers, attack these successful programs more than invasions, drone murders and destabilization of other states?

The supposed concentration camps and terrorists and separatists in Xinjiang and others are issues we will take up in Part 2 of this column.

We Filipinos should perform less of our national specialty: unproductive critiques following US lines or celebrities. We should work like hell, like our neighbors, who work with every party despite all disputes and promotions, and with a very necessary skepticism from all sides.









Another big lie by the West: Xinjiang genocide


COLLAGE BY IDSIPossible “outright genocide,” according to Elfren Cruz. Did this intellectual or the supposed “fact checkers” bother to check or try to reconcile with...




www.manilatimes.net

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen




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## vizier

There are three possibilities of this. 

1-) This is total Usa propaganda to pressure China. Just like Usa holds separatist figures like dalai lama , rabia kadir is one of such a tool used by Usa. 
2-) There is actually high level psychological pressure even at the physical level imposed on common population. 
3-) Combination of the first two possibilities. There are some high end Chinese officials bought by Usa playing a double game and other clean officials because of seperatism threat or similar are reluctant to stop these issues. In future Usa-israel might be planning a separatism issue and a bloody war on terror with China against religous minorites after their plan of total destabilisation of Pakistan,Iran and perhaps Turkey(by pyd etc.) . 

Previously I was thinking that option 1 was the total issue. But after seeing issues of double games played by countries that are supposed to be in cold war with Usa(ex: Russian high officials playing double) then I think option 3 is also possible. However the approach of muslim countries should be to break the threat spiral. Because if we act against this opposing Chinese interests it will increase the threat potential percieved by Chinese officials which are not playing double and makes it worse for everyone. Firstly we need to break the threat spiral and show that we want cooperation as China is a major partner and a common history for centuries or even thousands of years. Both economically and technologically it is better for us to be close to China and increase our security together against common threats. This way I think as they see the common future with us they will percieve that the threat is a foreign imposed artificial one and see the double gamers inside them and stop them eliminating such issues.


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## aziqbal

Tai Hai Chen said:


>



do you not have any independent reporting from Xingjing ?

all of these posts are videos are from state sponsored media channels, therefore fake and bias


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## ummarz




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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen




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## beijingwalker

Girls from Xinjiang province are becoming a dominant force in Chinese entertainment

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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> Girls from Xinjiang province are becoming a dominant force in Chinese entertainment



how so we know if this is real? none of these look like Ughurs not from the facial features anyway 

also this youtube channel is from a Chinese account ? all the videos are Chinese and even the google translate cannot find any word saying these are Ughurs? as a matter of fact all those actress's have Chinese names 

another fake video from another fake Chinese account ?

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## aziqbal

*Diplomatic storm in Turkey over China's treatment of Uighur population*












Diplomatic storm in Turkey over China's treatment of Uighur population


Turkey summoned China's ambassador after the embassy suggested on Twitter that it could take action against two Turkish politicians that had criticised Beijing's treatment of its Muslim Uighur community.




www.euronews.com


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> *Diplomatic storm in Turkey over China's treatment of Uighur population*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Diplomatic storm in Turkey over China's treatment of Uighur population
> 
> 
> Turkey summoned China's ambassador after the embassy suggested on Twitter that it could take action against two Turkish politicians that had criticised Beijing's treatment of its Muslim Uighur community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com



No proof of mistreatment of people in Xinjiang province.


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## aziqbal

*Turkey summons Chinese ambassador in rare spat about treatment of Uyghur*






__





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> *Turkey summons Chinese ambassador in rare spat about treatment of Uyghur*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 732196
> View attachment 732196



Well, if they don't want to get executed, then don't fly East Turkestan separatist flag.









East Turkestan independence movement - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## aziqbal

Good news now all that reporting that I have been doing is working

Facebook is now banning Chinese fanboys









Facebook is letting China run state ads denying the abuse of Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang, and staffers are reportedly raising concerns internally


The ads on Facebook claim that life in the region of Xinjiang is happy. Multiple reports have detailed human-rights abuses against Uyghur Muslims.




www.businessinsider.com






Tai Hai Chen said:


> Well, if they don't want to get executed, then don't fly East Turkestan separatist flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> East Turkestan independence movement - Wikipedia
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org




*is this big enough ? *


*Uyghur Activists in Exile Emboldened by Beijing’s Attacks *









Uyghur Activists in Exile Emboldened by Beijing’s Attacks


Uyghur activists who detailed abuse in Chinese camps say they will not stop fighting for their community in Xinjiang after Chinese officials attempt to smear their character




www.voanews.com

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> Good news now all that reporting that I have been doing is working
> 
> Facebook is now banning Chinese fanboys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Facebook is letting China run state ads denying the abuse of Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang, and staffers are reportedly raising concerns internally
> 
> 
> The ads on Facebook claim that life in the region of Xinjiang is happy. Multiple reports have detailed human-rights abuses against Uyghur Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *is this big enough ? *
> 
> 
> *Uyghur Activists in Exile Emboldened by Beijing’s Attacks *
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Uyghur Activists in Exile Emboldened by Beijing’s Attacks
> 
> 
> Uyghur activists who detailed abuse in Chinese camps say they will not stop fighting for their community in Xinjiang after Chinese officials attempt to smear their character
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 732199
> View attachment 732199



Big flag. I like.


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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> how so we know if this is real? none of these look like Ughurs not from the facial features anyway


Are you crazy?? These are well known household celebrities in China and even wikipedia have their personal pages, you are just impossible， you must be living under a rock.









Dilraba Dilmurat - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org












Gulnazar - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## beijingwalker

> This is our first video in Xinjiang of Raz exploring the life and work of the local cotton farmers. Please stay tuned for the next 2 videos that’ll come out in our Xinjiang special series! Welcome to leave any comment and please subscribe too

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## beijingwalker

*Foreign policy analyst, former Miss New Jersey on Xinjiang & U.S. propaganda





*

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## beijingwalker

Forced labor... campus job fair in Xinjiang university

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## denel

aziqbal said:


> how so we know if this is real? none of these look like Ughurs not from the facial features anyway
> 
> also this youtube channel is from a Chinese account ? all the videos are Chinese and even the google translate cannot find any word saying these are Ughurs? as a matter of fact all those actress's have Chinese names
> 
> another fake video from another fake Chinese account ?


Total fake youtube to sanitise their lying narrative... any one can make wiki pages lol. really shameful to post lies always. dont they get tired of it?
Definitely not Uighur.


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## beijingwalker

denel said:


> Total fake youtube to sanitise their lying narrative... any one can make wiki pages lol. really shameful to post lies always. dont they get tired of it?
> Definitely not Uighur.


You guys are crazy, all these entries are fake, right?



https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Dilraba+Dilmurat





https://www.google.com.hk/search?q=Dilraba+Dilmurat&biw=1920&bih=969&sxsrf=ALeKk02-8TgNn2xiUul885xtaZOja6W1eQ%3A1617976112037&ei=MFtwYO_YAbuv0PEPn5SwuA8&oq=Dilraba+Dilmurat&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAwyBAgjECcyBAgAEEMyAggAMggIABCxAxCDATICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIAFDkC1jkC2C0FGgAcAJ4AIABiweIAcwJkgEHMy0xLjYtMZgBAKABAqABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwjvsKbbpvHvAhW7FzQIHR8KDPcQ4dUDCA0


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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> Are you crazy?? These are well known household celebrities in China and even wikipedia have their personal pages, you are just impossible， you must be living under a rock.
> 
> 
> 
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> Dilraba Dilmurat - Wikipedia
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> en.wikipedia.org
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> Gulnazar - Wikipedia
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> en.wikipedia.org



these wikipedia are Chinese pages edited by Chinese fanboys, they are not credible source of information


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## Amaa'n

beijingwalker said:


> Girls from Xinjiang province are becoming a dominant force in Chinese entertainment


can you take all this to dedicate mega thread, don't make new threads everyday please

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## Beast

aziqbal said:


> *Diplomatic storm in Turkey over China's treatment of Uighur population*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Diplomatic storm in Turkey over China's treatment of Uighur population
> 
> 
> Turkey summoned China's ambassador after the embassy suggested on Twitter that it could take action against two Turkish politicians that had criticised Beijing's treatment of its Muslim Uighur community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com


China could under cut Turkey trade. Turkey are under trade war from US, EU and Russia. Turkey is playing with fire by offending China again.

Precisely, Erdogan realize he is no Tiger and cant fight all Tiger at once which makes him tone down on China. China is no idiot too. The amount of investment and loan to Turkey by China will all depend on Uyghur issue stance by Turkish government.


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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> these wikipedia are Chinese pages edited by Chinese fanboys, they are not credible source of information


What, think tank again, lol.. you mean Dilraba Dilmurat, Gulnazar... don't exist?


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## SBUS-CXK

aziqbal said:


> Good news now all that reporting that I have been doing is working
> 
> Facebook is now banning Chinese fanboys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Facebook is letting China run state ads denying the abuse of Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang, and staffers are reportedly raising concerns internally
> 
> 
> The ads on Facebook claim that life in the region of Xinjiang is happy. Multiple reports have detailed human-rights abuses against Uyghur Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *is this big enough ? *
> 
> 
> *Uyghur Activists in Exile Emboldened by Beijing’s Attacks *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uyghur Activists in Exile Emboldened by Beijing’s Attacks
> 
> 
> Uyghur activists who detailed abuse in Chinese camps say they will not stop fighting for their community in Xinjiang after Chinese officials attempt to smear their character
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 732199
> View attachment 732199


Do you want to tell me that Pakistan and Turkey support "East Turkestan"? So this is the national policy of Pakistan and Turkey?

How are Kurdistan and Baluchistan?


aziqbal said:


> these wikipedia are Chinese pages edited by Chinese fanboys, they are not credible source of information


What do you mean? You edited Baluchistan's wiki page?


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## beijingwalker

Uighur social media influencer,who has 1.4 million followers on her social media channels worldwide, questions whether the Xinjinag which being reported negatively everyday by the western media is the same Xinjiang that she lives in, where she joys her life to the fullest and the unprecedented prosperity makes the local population so happy and content.


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## beijingwalker

*Crime against humanity*
Chinese authorities put hearing impaired children and their parents in southern XInjiang poor regions into the concentration camps for 10 months

The hearing impaired kids were forced to get Cochlear implant, the cost for the surgery is around $35000 USD and the Chinese authority forced the families to accept this implant for free, China deprived the locals of the freedom to pay for themselves.

Worse still, after forcibly putting the Cochlear implants into those innocent near deaf children, the Chinese government rounded up these children together with their families and put them into a concentration camp called Hearing Rehabilitation training Center for pre school children.

They children and the families are forced to live in the camp for free, with forced free rooms and food, up to 10 months, and everyday some trainers will use some high tech devices to test and torture the children to see how well the Cochlear implants work and how the children's hearing progress, sometimes in small groups, sometime one on one.

It's really a true concentration camp where children are being tortured and examined physically.








*you are hurting yourself by boycotting #Xinjiang cotton*


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## beijingwalker

*Iran ambassador after visiting Xinjiang: " US should be sanctioned, poor people living in Xinjiang are much more happier than Asians in US"*

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> *Iran ambassador after visiting Xinjiang: " US should be sanctioned, poor people living in Xinjiang are much more happier than Asians in US"*



Iran visits Xinjiang after so called "$25 billion" deal of the century, are you sure this visit is no co-incidence?

also a Chinese youtube video run by Chinese state media is not credible news

China is a permanent member of the UN security council and yet has turned down 23 requests for UN Human rights commissioner to attend Xinjiang for a fully independent inspection and investigation, why and what has China got to hide?

allow the UN inspectors in without any Chinese police and let them pick the locations they want to see

so it means all this is bias and state run propoganda to cover up the East Turkistan Genocide


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## FairAndUnbiased

aziqbal said:


> Iran visits Xinjiang after so called "$25 billion" deal of the century, are you sure this visit is no co-incidence?
> 
> also a Chinese youtube video run by Chinese state media is not credible news
> 
> China is a permanent member of the UN security council and yet has turned down 23 requests for UN Human rights commissioner to attend Xinjiang for a fully independent inspection and investigation, why and what has China got to hide?
> 
> allow the UN inspectors in without any Chinese police and let them pick the locations they want to see
> 
> so it means all this is bias and state run propoganda to cover up the East Turkistan Genocide



proof?


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## beijingwalker

FairAndUnbiased said:


> proof?


He is a dream tank, dreaming doens't need any proof.

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## beijingwalker

Every single country which borders Xinjiang supports China, all stan countries in SCO support China,which is in Xinjiang's immediate neighborhood, All Muslim countries, Arabs or non Arab Muslim countries are China's friends, Only US and its puppets which are far far away from Xinjiang make some noise, and they can only make some noise and that's it.


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## grey boy 2

OMG, this "STICKY thread" is probably turning into the one of the "MOST DISGUSTING" troll thread i've ever came across of my decade membership on PDF
@krash @waz , please check out what this "China Hater" @striver44 has done this thread starting from post #4259
thankyou

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## beijingwalker

70% of the China's tomatos are produced in Xinjiang and China accounts for a quarter of the world tomato output.


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## beijingwalker

*The Point: Medical services greatly improved in Xinjiang*


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## kuge

are we supposed to boycott xinjiang tomatoes?


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## dbc

Yup I stopped buying Hienz

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## beijingwalker

kuge said:


> are we supposed to boycott xinjiang tomatoes?


Not only Xinjiang, US has been calling for boycotting China for years, and the time coincided with the best and fastest time for China's development.


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## S10

dbc said:


> Yup I stopped buying Hienz


I'm sure Heinz is losing sleep over it.


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## beijingwalker

*What Lies Has DW Made Against China On "Forced Labor" & "Re-education Camps"*


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## dbc

S10 said:


> I'm sure Heinz is losing sleep over it.



of course not I don’t eat the nasty stuff they make anyway. As a rule. I don’t consume any processed food.


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## striver44

*China uses old tricks in new Xinjiang propaganda campaign*
Under renewed pressure from around the world, the Beijing PR machine is deploying enormous resources to depict a positive image of Uighurs in Xinjiang - but the West is not buying it.

*Michael Smith*China correspondent
Apr 8, 2021 – 5.22pm
Save
Share
China this week subjected the Canberra press gallery to a two-hour propaganda blitz designed to counter the backlash against its treatment of ethnic Uighur Muslims.
It was an uncomfortable reminder of my trip two years ago to Xinjiang, where I witnessed a nine-day parade of non-stop smiling, singing and dancing Uighurs prepared with scripted narratives about how good life was under the Chinese Communist Party.





Uighur dancing demonstration put on for travelling media: one of many such displays organised to show the region’s Uighurs, Kazakhs, Tajiks, Kyrgyzs and other ethnic groups are all thriving under Beijing’s rule. Michael Smith
The video, titled _Xinjiang is a Wonderful Land, _screened in Canberra is just a snapshot of the extraordinary amount of resources at the Chinese government’s disposal when it is determined to deliver a message.
In July 2019, I was part of a group of international journalists invited by the state to tour Xinjiang on what was billed as a “fact-finding mission”. We were closely supervised at all the times and could only speak to the Uighurs our government minders introduced us to.
On the rare occasion another journalist and I snuck out of our hotel room to have a look around, we were tailed by plainclothes security agents.



Advertisement
The focal point of the trip were visits to what our hosts called “vocational training centres” where sunflowers grew in courtyards, biscuits were baking in the kitchen and classrooms were full of Uighurs of all ages chanting phrases in Mandarin.
Like the people in the video screened in Canberra this week, the “students” we were allowed to interview had scripted stories about about their desire to “kill pagans” and make bombs before their salvation from a life of extremism.
It was a piece of theatre on the scale of the 1998 Jim Carrey movie _The Truman Show_, set in an idyllic, but fake, US town with a cast of thousands. Like the journalists in Canberra this week, I didn’t believe a word of it.
The Chinese Embassy news conference this week was part of a new global campaign to push back against growing international condemnation of the treatment of 11 million ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang. Last week, China released a musical in cinemas called “_The Wings of Songs_” featuring elaborate Bollywood-style montages of minorities in colourful dress.
While videos like this might resonate with a domestic audience, they are never going to wash with cynical Western journalists. They cannot visit Xinjiang unsupervised and the few who do, such as the BBC’s Jon Sudworth, are harassed to the point where they have to leave China.
China’s campaign has also extended to smearing critics of its policies in Xinjiang. Vicky Xiuzhong Xu, an outspoken journalist and analyst for the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) who has been documenting the treatment of Uighurs in Xinjiang, has been the target of a vicious tirade of abuse on social media and in Chinese state media.



*RELATED*
*China threatens Australia with tit-for-tat sanctions over Uighurs*
The biggest insult from China’s propaganda push, though, is to the Uighur people themselves. Australian Uighurs quite rightly want the Chinese Ambassador Cheng Jingye to meet them and answer some questions about their relatives back in Xinjiang.
The most disturbing aspect to that trip to Xinjiang in 2019 was the realisation it was the Uighurs themselves who were being used as props in an elaborate piece of Communist Party theatre designed to convince the world that Xinjiang is indeed a wonderful land.


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## denel

Friends, that is a Fake post by a fake id.

Real statistics vs fake propaganda. Amazing now it gets down to East is Red, Tomato is Red; therefore Tomato is East logic.

@aziqbal @striver44 




Tomato ketchup & oth. tomato sauces | Imports and Exports | 2019


).

China is just 2 notches above South Africa and Canada but way lower.

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## beijingwalker

*List of countries by tomato production*

*>1,000,000 tonnes*

RankCountry201720161



China59,514,773​57,426,955​2



India20,708,000​17,732,000​3



Pakistan16,601,098​15,587,111​4



Turkey12,750,000​12,600,000​5



United States10,910,990​12,936,420​6



Egypt7,297,108​7,320,714​7



Iran6,177,290​5,828,557​9



Italy6,015,868​6,437,572​9



Spain5,163,466​5,233,542​10



Mexico4,243,058​4,047,171​









List of countries by tomato production - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## qwerrty

xyxmt said:


> New York Time: This Ketchup may have Ugher Blood in it to give it red color


im waiting for articles about china forced uyghurs to mine bitcoins

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## beijingwalker

*Students from Xinjiang Pamir mountain primary school use 3D print to make Tajik Eagle Bone Flute*

Students from Xinjiang Pamir mountain primary school use 3D print to make their traditional musical instrument, the Tajik Eagle Bone Flute,. Now even in the remotest corner in Pamir mountains, kids can access to top notch teaching facilities and equipment. Knowledge is power.

Tajik mountain kids taking 3D printing class


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## ZeEa5KPul

qwerrty said:


> im waiting for articles about china forced uyghurs to mine bitcoins



I nearly spat my tea all over the screen, you magnificent b*stard!


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## striver44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380682879630467072


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## striver44

*Under pressure over Xinjiang, China takes aim at overseas Uighurs, academics*





Erkin Tursun is seen speaking on a video shown at a news conference on Xinjiang-related issues, in Beijing
Cate Cadell
Fri, April 9, 2021, 4:39 PM·4 min read


By Cate Cadell
BEIJING (Reuters) - At a crowded press event on Friday in Beijing, Chinese officials aired a video of a thin Uighur man with a shaved head, wearing an oversized uniform and speaking directly to the camera.
"I will try my best to change myself and receive the leniency of the party and the government," says the man, Erkin Tursun, a former TV producer who, the officials said, is serving a 20-year sentence in Xinjiang on charges of "inciting ethnic hatred, ethnic discrimination and covering up crimes".

Tursun, almost unrecognisable from photos shared online before his 2018 arrest, is addressing his son, who now lives abroad and has publicly advocated against Tursun's detention, which he says is arbitrary.
It was one of over half a dozen such segments showing Uighurs, a mostly Muslim ethnic minority in the western region, pleading with relatives abroad to come home and stop speaking out against China and the ruling Communist Party.
Such press conferences have become a staple of Beijing's widening campaign to defend its Xinjiang policies amid mounting Western criticism, including U.S. sanctions and accusations of genocide, as Beijing prepares to host the 2022 Winter Olympics in February.
China for months has increasingly pushed back against global criticism of its Xinjiang policies, including with explicit attacks on women who have made claims of abuse.
Last month the United States, the European Union, Britain and Canada imposed sanctions on Chinese officials over human rights abuses in Xinjiang. China retaliated with its own sanctions.
Some big Western brands like H&M, facing boycotts in China over their previous statements on Xinjiang, are struggling to strike a balance between consumers in the world's second-largest economy and public opinion at home.
Beijing's propaganda campaign, which has included 11 media briefings in the capital since December, has repeatedly included efforts to discredit overseas Uighurs who speak to media.


China has also conducted overseas press events, including one this week in Canberra, released state media documentaries and a musical movie, invited diplomats from friendly countries including Iran, Malaysia and Russia to visit Xinjiang, and promoted sympathetic foreign YouTubers and news sites.

It has also targeted individual overseas think tank analysts, journalists and academics with sanctions, amplifying critical social media comments and aggressive state media coverage.

Officials in China's Foreign Ministry and the Xinjiang government say the efforts are necessary to counter "lies and slander" released by a network of "anti-China forces" abroad.

'DADDY, WHEN WILL YOU COME BACK?'

Uighurs living overseas have said videos of relatives, often produced by Chinese state media outlets, are staged.

"The piece is basically pushing a narrative that it is us Uighurs overseas who suddenly abandoned our families, which is laughable," said Australia-based Mamutjan Abdurehim on Twitter in March after a Chinese state broadcaster released footage of his family in Kashgar.

On Friday, Chinese officials shared clips of Mamutjan's daughter, sitting beside her grandparents.

"Daddy, when will you come back? We all miss you," she said.

United Nations experts and researchers estimate over a million people, mostly Uighurs, have been detained in a vast network of camps throughout Xinjiang since 2017. China initially denied the camps existed but has since said they are vocational centres and that all the people who had been there have "graduated".

During Friday's event, officials took aim at databases set up by overseas activists who have documented the names and details of people caught up in China's camp system.

The officials said they had confirmed the identities of 10,708 people listed in the overseas databases but said over 1,300 people on the list were "completely made up," while over 6,000 are living "normal lives."

The officials said 3,244 people listed on one database were serving judicial sentences inside Xinjiang "for crimes of endangering public security in Xinjiang, terrorism and other crimes."

They said 238 had died of illnesses and other causes.

Overseas rights groups and some relatives of people detained in Xinjiang say they have not been given details of their relatives' whereabouts or sentences. Xinjiang courts do not make public the vast majority of rulings or case details.

(Reporting by Cate Cadell; Editing by Tony Munroe and William Mallard)









Under pressure over Xinjiang, China takes aim at overseas Uighurs, academics


At a crowded press event on Friday in Beijing, Chinese officials aired a video of a thin Uighur man with a shaved head, wearing an oversized uniform and speaking directly to the camera. "I will try my best to change myself and receive the leniency of the party and the government," says the man...




news.yahoo.com


----------



## TOTUU

The USA and Turkey have successfully shaped Islamic sentiment against China ，They spend a lot of money to train terrorists and send them to Xinjiang
Watch this video

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## Salmanov

TOTUU said:


> The USA and Turkey have successfully shaped Islamic sentiment against China ，They spend a lot of money to train terrorists and send them to Xinjiang
> Watch this video


They did that against the soviets but today’s Muslims saw how America supports Zionists and what they did in Islamic countries so nobody buys their fake Muslim love anymore

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## striver44

Who is the nobody here?

Majority muslims in Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey as well as majority muslims in the world condemned China's treatments of Uyghurs,....

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> *Students from Xinjiang Pamir mountain primary school use 3D print to make Tajik Eagle Bone Flute*
> 
> Students from Xinjiang Pamir mountain primary school use 3D print to make their traditional musical instrument, the Tajik Eagle Bone Flute,. Now even in the remotest corner in Pamir mountains, kids can access to top notch teaching facilities and equipment. Knowledge is power.
> 
> Tajik mountain kids taking 3D printing class



Chinese video bu Chinese youtube account 

clearly propoganda and fake

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## aziqbal

TOTUU said:


> The USA and Turkey have successfully shaped Islamic sentiment against China ，They spend a lot of money to train terrorists and send them to Xinjiang
> Watch this video



Newsbud really? its a anti-US channel 

this is not credible

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## Globenim

TOTUU said:


> The USA and Turkey have successfully shaped Islamic sentiment against China ，They spend a lot of money to train terrorists and send them to Xinjiang
> Watch this video


The U.S. regime has been caught blatantly lying to promote war and terror and harm against populations of majorly Muslim countries, has been caught abusing, raping, torturing and brainwashing Muslims in American internment camps on U.S. and U.S. occupied foreign soil left and right, blackmailing and pushing them to become terrorist pawns to destablizing Muslim countries especially near China and training and arming murderous radicals killing hundreds of innocent Muslims, children and women each, openly stealing ressources from Muslim countries and so on.

Yet their own population is so uneducated and indoctrinated with U.S. state propaganda lies and revisionism turning Americans into the greatest victims and saints on earth, that even when they are pushed to at least stop denying plain facts liko these U.S. torture camps, they still wont see any issue trusting that very same genocidal regime making up the same template of silly lies about job programs in Muslim regions dealing with increasing development and automation to justify acts of repression and violence against the very same people "for freedom of Muslims" for the fifth time in a row.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Constantin84

They also did that against Israel, creating a fake Palestinian state to malign the tiny nascent Jewish state.You all fell for it....

I love crazy statements, you can basically say anything and there will be someone to believe you, especially in the ummah where literacy, logic,sanity, are unknown words.


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## TOTUU

striver44 said:


> Who is the nobody here?
> 
> Majority muslims in Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey as well as majority muslims in the world condemned China's treatments of Uyghurs,....


Manipulated emotions based on lies, very pathetic 。

It's better to see it yourself than to trust the media.

I hope you can come to China and visit Xinjiang.

And I would rather you go to Europe, to Japan, to the United States and look at it and compare it.
We welcome anyone to experience China firsthand 。Get away from the news and experience the real world for yourself.
you can look at the development of religion in Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Europe and the United States, especially Islam, you can compare it with China.You can also look at the Islamic world and see how they treat other religions. Look at how Burma treats other religions. Nothing is more real than what you experience .

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## FairAndUnbiased

TOTUU said:


> Manipulated emotions based on lies, very pathetic 。
> 
> It's better to see it yourself than to trust the media.
> 
> I hope you can come to China and visit Xinjiang.
> 
> And I would rather you go to Europe, to Japan, to the United States and look at it and compare it.
> We welcome anyone to experience China firsthand 。Get away from the news and experience the real world for yourself.
> you can look at the development of religion in Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Europe and the United States, especially Islam, you can compare it with China.You can also look at the Islamic world and see how they treat other religions. Look at how Burma treats other religions. Nothing is more real than what you experience .



Why do you want useless filth to enter China, waste our resources and abuse our hospitality?

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## penlei00

China should divide Xinjiang into the Uyghur Autonomous Region and the Han Chinese Autonomous Region, so that we will not hire Uyghurs in all the factories and farms in the Han Autonomous Region. Now, any product with the Uyghur workers is a big mistake and will be To stigmatize, all china need to do now is stop losses. Uyghurs can continue to do their traditional work, selling lamb skewers, selling cakes, farming, herding sheep, making Yingjisha knives, and making handmade copperware. My remark was published on the China Observer.com message board, and it was banned from being published by Editors on duty, so I publish it here.


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## striver44

penlei00 said:


> China should divide Xinjiang into the Uyghur Autonomous Region and the Han Chinese Autonomous Region, so that we will not hire Uyghurs in all the factories and farms in the Han Autonomous Region. Now, any product with the Uyghur workers is a big mistake and will be To stigmatize, all china need to do now is stop losses. Uyghurs can continue to do their traditional work, selling lamb skewers, selling cakes, farming, herding sheep, making Yingjisha knives, and making handmade copperware. My remark was published on the China Observer.com message board, and it was banned from being published by editors, so I publish it here.



You should gave them back their country you took away from them.

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## penlei00

striver44 said:


> You should gave them back their country you took away from them.


Fake Muslims are probably Taiwanese
In fact, many Muslim countries ，especially Arab country do not mind China's suppression of Uyghur separatist terrorists. These Muslim countries are themselves victims of minority Muslim separatism. More importantly, the Uyghurs are part of Erdogan’s big Turan dream, and the Arab nation will never want to see the Turks re-establish the Ottoman Empire. What's more, Indonesia killed half of the population of East Timor before agreeing to the independence of East Timor .The main reason why Indonesia abandons East Timor is that Indonesia was threatened by Australia. Until now, there is still Papua independence movement in Indonesia. There are many videos posted by Papuans on YOUTUBE. Indonesia directly used the army to kill Papuans blacks. There is serious skin color racism. You fake Indonesian, don’t even know this,
What’s more amazing is that East Asians, whether they are Japanese, Han or Korean, hate against each other, butThey generally discriminate against Malays. East Asians think malay are shorter and darker, and malay IQ is lower than the average IQ of the East Asian population. I’m the most honest person in this forum, so I don’t mind making some people unhappy


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## denel

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Uighur women are going from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swimsuit picture courtesy of Dilraba Dilmurat.



So if this is what you expect - good luck. Any self respecting muslim will push back. Your true colours of design on Uighurs is clear.

@striver44

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## denel

penlei00 said:


> Fake Muslims are probably Taiwanese
> In fact, many Muslim countries ，especially Arab country do not mind China's suppression of Uyghur separatist terrorists. These Muslim countries are themselves victims of minority Muslim separatism. More importantly, the Uyghurs are part of Erdogan’s big Turan dream, and the Arab nation will never want to see the Turks re-establish the Ottoman Empire. What's more, Indonesia killed half of the population of East Timor before agreeing to the independence of East Timor .The main reason why Indonesia abandons East Timor is that Indonesia was threatened by Australia. Until now, there is still Papua independence movement in Indonesia. There are many videos posted by Papuans on YOUTUBE. Indonesia directly used the army to kill Papuans blacks. There is serious skin color racism. You fake Indonesian, don’t even know this,
> What’s more amazing is that East Asians, whether they are Japanese, Han or Korean, hate against each other, butThey generally discriminate against Malays. East Asians think malay are shorter and darker, and malay IQ is lower than the average IQ of the East Asian population. I’m the most honest person in this forum, so I don’t mind making some people unhappy


You post is confirming how racist you are - if you use colour to judge IQ - you confirm what CCP is doing against Uighurs to be ok because it fits your superiority? Forget Asians, are you saying us africans, and Paks are inferior and lower IQ because of our skin colour?

Your true colours and intent are in front of all us.

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## striver44

penlei00 said:


> malay IQ is lower than the average IQ of the East Asian population. I’m the most honest person in this forum, so I don’t mind making some people unhappy


In defense of myself I have 130IQ. 


denel said:


> So if this is what you expect - good luck. Any self respecting muslim will push back. Your true colours of design on Uighurs is clear.
> 
> @striver44


They just hate islam, the official state religion of Pakistan.

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## Indos

penlei00 said:


> Fake Muslims are probably Taiwanese
> In fact, many Muslim countries ，especially Arab country do not mind China's suppression of Uyghur separatist terrorists. These Muslim countries are themselves victims of minority Muslim separatism. More importantly, the Uyghurs are part of Erdogan’s big Turan dream, and the Arab nation will never want to see the Turks re-establish the Ottoman Empire. What's more, Indonesia killed half of the population of East Timor before agreeing to the independence of East Timor .The main reason why Indonesia abandons East Timor is that Indonesia was threatened by Australia. Until now, there is still Papua independence movement in Indonesia. There are many videos posted by Papuans on YOUTUBE. Indonesia directly used the army to kill Papuans blacks. There is serious skin color racism. You fake Indonesian, don’t even know this,
> What’s more amazing is that East Asians, whether they are Japanese, Han or Korean, hate against each other, butThey generally discriminate against Malays. East Asians think malay are shorter and darker, and malay IQ is lower than the average IQ of the East Asian population. I’m the most honest person in this forum, so I don’t mind making some people unhappy



LOL Australian doesnt have anything to do with East Timor break up from Indonesia. Go educate yourselves about what happen during that time. There is Google already that you can find.

And please, we dont care about your opinion about Malay/Indonesian since we only care about God opinion on us.

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## denel

Indos said:


> LOL Australian doesnt have anything to do with East Timor break up from Indonesia. Go educate yourselves about what happen during that time. There is Google already that you can find.
> 
> And please, we dont care about your opinion about Malay/Indonesian since we only care about God opinion on us.
> 
> View attachment 734052




To this lord of abraham we have our faith and belief - not the false gods... CCP and Emperor XI/Mao who are murderers.


striver44 said:


> In defense of myself I have 130IQ.
> 
> They just hate islam, the official state religion of Pakistan.


They also have said clearly IQ is tied to skin colour.

Then their odacity to cry about Apartheid and Colonialism etc.... They are no different that White Colonials

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## penlei00

denel said:


> You post is confirming how racist you are - if you use colour to judge IQ - you confirm what CCP is doing against Uighurs to be ok because it fits your superiority?
> 
> Your true colours and intent are in front of all us.


we Chinese are victims of racial discrimination. but It is a common human phenomenon to distinguish races by height, skin color, and IQ. the Japanese style racial discrimination is completely excluded foreigner from institutional arrangements and social life, Koreans are more arrogant and express racial oral attacks. we Chinese are tolerant and more friendly to people of different races, but we have firmness in our hearts. we will never allow our culture to be contaminated by foreign Abraham monotheism
In fact, Indonesians discriminate the Chinese the most. Indonesia prohibits Chinese education, Chinese writing, prohibits Chinese from using Chinese names, and forces Chinese to use Indonesian names. Chinese Indonesians no longer speak Chinese. Many Chinese Indonesians believe in Islam and exclude Chinese. This is why I think China must learn how the Islamic state suppresses ethnic minorities to ensure national unity.
Indonesia has been very successful in forced assimilation, depriving the Chinese of their property, and more importantly, destroying Chinese culture. The China has fallen into the trap of Marxist-Leninist discourse on ethnic groups. It over-protects and respects ethnic minority culture. that is more silly than American Black Lives Matter liberalism. I think China should learn from Indonesia’s racial discrimination program and completely destroy the Uyghur savages in Xinjiang.

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## Indos

denel said:


> You post is confirming how racist you are - if you use colour to judge IQ - you confirm what CCP is doing against Uighurs to be ok because it fits your superiority? Forget Asians, are you saying us africans, and Paks are inferior and lower IQ because of our skin colour?
> 
> Your true colours and intent are in front of all us.



LOL He puts very white skin man in their DP while I put my own brown skin here with proud

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## denel

Indos said:


> LOL He puts very white skin man in their DP while I put my own brown skin here with proud



Colour is just skin deep. 


penlei00 said:


> we Chinese are victims of racial discrimination. but It is a common human phenomenon to distinguish races by height, skin color, and IQ. the Japanese style racial discrimination is completely excluded foreigner from institutional arrangements and social life, Koreans are more arrogant and express racial oral attacks. we Chinese are tolerant and more friendly to people of different races, but we have firmness in our hearts. we will never allow our culture to be contaminated by foreign Abraham monotheism
> In fact, Indonesians discriminate the Chinese the most. Indonesia prohibits Chinese education, Chinese writing, prohibits Chinese from using Chinese names, and forces Chinese to use Indonesian names. Chinese Indonesians no longer speak Chinese. Many Chinese Indonesians believe in Islam and exclude Chinese. This is why I think China must learn how the Islamic state suppresses ethnic minorities to ensure national unity.


Fake news.... Have you been to Medan????? You are master of liars. We live in open societies - this includes Indonesia. If they were that hard - your food ... pork would have been banned.


penlei00 said:


> we Chinese are victims of racial discrimination. but It is a common human phenomenon to distinguish races by height, skin color, and IQ. the Japanese style racial discrimination is completely excluded foreigner from institutional arrangements and social life, Koreans are more arrogant and express racial oral attacks. we Chinese are tolerant and more friendly to people of different races, *but we have firmness in our hearts. we will never allow our culture to be contaminated by foreign Abraham monotheism*
> In fact, Indonesians discriminate the Chinese the most. Indonesia prohibits Chinese education, Chinese writing, prohibits Chinese from using Chinese names, and forces Chinese to use Indonesian names. Chinese Indonesians no longer speak Chinese. Many Chinese Indonesians believe in Islam and exclude Chinese. This is why I think China must learn how the Islamic state suppresses ethnic minorities to ensure national unity.


HOLD ON...

DO you realise what you just said.....

What the hell do you mean by contamination.... Are you saying muslim/jews are contaminants? Clarify your words.......... 

@waz @Irfan Baloch


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## Indos

This man name is Liem Swie King and I bet it is Chinese name and he was Indonesian badminton stars in the old time and always being seen on TV during Soeharto regime






This is Kwiek Kian Gie, an economist and he has used that name since old time ago, Soeharto regime. So I believe the reason Chinese use Indonesian name is to assimilate at their own consent and many use Western name due to majority of Chinese ethnic is Christian/Chatolic

Kwik Kian Gie






*Kwik Kian Gie* (traditional Chinese: 郭建義; simplified Chinese: 郭建义; pinyin: _Guō Jiànyì_) (born 11 January 1935 in Juwana, Central Java) was the Indonesian Coordinating Minister of Economics and Finance from 1999–2000, and Minister of National Development Planning from 2001-2004.[1] He is a prominent Indonesian economist who often wrote columns in the newspaper _KOMPAS_ criticizing the policies of the Suharto administration in the late 1980s and 1990s. But a decades later he also spoke on one of Indonesia's national television, no Indonesian leader who dared to argue but Sukarno, Suharto and Gus Dur. He is well known for being outspoken and is regarded as an honest politician and economist although his writings are sometimes considered controversial.

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## penlei00

To be honest, in 2015, when ISIS was most rampant, ISIS issued a map, including Xinjiang, China. At that time, I hope ISIS will enter Xinjiang so that we can use the army instead of the police to completely suppress terrorists. According to the terrain of Xinjiang’s desert oasis, we only need to control the roads and water sources to completely eliminate the rebel terrorists. Then, there is no need for education and training centers now.


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## Char

penlei00 said:


> China should divide Xinjiang into the Uyghur Autonomous Region and the Han Chinese Autonomous Region, so that we will not hire Uyghurs in all the factories and farms in the Han Autonomous Region. Now, any product with the Uyghur workers is a big mistake and will be To stigmatize, all china need to do now is stop losses. Uyghurs can continue to do their traditional work, selling lamb skewers, selling cakes, farming, herding sheep, making Yingjisha knives, and making handmade copperware. My remark was published on the China Observer.com message board, and it was banned from being published by Editors on duty, so I publish it here.



Without industrialization, southern Xinjiang cannot support such a large population, and without the help of the central government and developed regions, they cannot achieve industrialization on their own.


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## denel

penlei00 said:


> To be honest, in 2015, when ISIS was most rampant, ISIS issued a map, including Xinjiang, China. At that time, I hope ISIS will enter Xinjiang so that we can use the army instead of the police to completely suppress terrorists. According to the terrain of Xinjiang’s desert oasis, we only need to control the roads and water sources to completely eliminate the rebel terrorists. Then, there is no need for education and training centers now.


There was NO ISIS... Just your govt's propaganda. Please stop putting lies to seek excuses.

You are totally clueless on guerilla warfare. go and read your own history.

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## FairAndUnbiased

denel said:


> So if this is what you expect - good luck. Any self respecting muslim will push back. Your true colours of design on Uighurs is clear.



are you a fundamentalist? why do you hate freedom?


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## aziqbal

penlei00 said:


> Fake Muslims are probably Taiwanese
> In fact, many Muslim countries ，especially Arab country do not mind China's suppression of Uyghur separatist terrorists. These Muslim countries are themselves victims of minority Muslim separatism. More importantly, the Uyghurs are part of Erdogan’s big Turan dream, and the Arab nation will never want to see the Turks re-establish the Ottoman Empire. What's more, Indonesia killed half of the population of East Timor before agreeing to the independence of East Timor .The main reason why Indonesia abandons East Timor is that Indonesia was threatened by Australia. Until now, there is still Papua independence movement in Indonesia. There are many videos posted by Papuans on YOUTUBE. Indonesia directly used the army to kill Papuans blacks. There is serious skin color racism. You fake Indonesian, don’t even know this,
> What’s more amazing is that East Asians, whether they are Japanese, Han or Korean, hate against each other, butThey generally discriminate against Malays. East Asians think malay are shorter and darker, and malay IQ is lower than the average IQ of the East Asian population. I’m the most honest person in this forum, so I don’t mind making some people unhappy



Chinese fanboy listen here 

You attack islam we will destroy you like we did USSR 

once USSR tried to this now people say there used to a country called USSR 

Spain tried and after 400 years now Spain has huge growing muslim population 

we will conquer you sooner or later, islam wins every time and its the youngest of the monotheistic religions


FairAndUnbiased said:


> are you a fundamentalist? why do you hate freedom?



Han Chinese fanboys like you are fundamentalist and in the West you are being targeted because of COVID 

but you dont have any self respect so I know it will keep happening 









Spit On, Yelled At, Attacked: Chinese-Americans Fear for Their Safety (Published 2020)


As bigots blame them for the coronavirus and President Trump labels it the “Chinese virus,” many Chinese-Americans say they are terrified of what could come next.




www.nytimes.com

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## aziqbal

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Why do you want useless filth to enter China, waste our resources and abuse our hospitality?



that is completely false and you are lying

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## T-SaGe

It is a despicable thread title and entry msg that targeting both Uighur diaspora and Turkey.

According to Sibel Edmonds, the reason of Pakistan's nuclear deterrence was Turkey's active assistance. Do you believe this? A former FBI translator and a new type of whisperer(!), err, I mean manipulator, mostly defending the Turkish American axis.

Turkey is trying to stay away as possible from the US propaganda activities. We discussed the reasons for this under different threads. - for example, https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/turk...esponse-to-uighur-claims.707169/post-13057855

It is my call from here to all fifty cents that trying yo demonize Turkey will not have any gain to your interests, please Review your propaganda activities.

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## aziqbal

TOTUU said:


> The USA and Turkey have successfully shaped Islamic sentiment against China ，They spend a lot of money to train terrorists and send them to Xinjiang
> Watch this video



only the video from a Chinese fanboy youtube and not a reliable source of information

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## SQ8

FairAndUnbiased said:


> are you a fundamentalist? why do you hate freedom?


I am a fundamentalist - whatever you coin from that. Now if most of China is irreligious and generally have no other aspect than materialistic goals to offer that is fine, but don’t expect anyone else to agree to calling ethnic cleansing of culture and religion as “freedom”.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

penlei00 said:


> I think China should learn from Indonesia’s racial discrimination program and completely destroy the Uyghur savages in Xinjiang.



You say this now because you are confident you can eradicate Uyghurs and face no consequences to it

If the roles were reversed with Hans at Uyghur mercy, you would squeal and whine victimhood like how your people do in regard to Japanese atrocities during WW2

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## denel

Char said:


> Without industrialization, southern Xinjiang cannot support such a large population, and without the help of the central government and developed regions, they cannot achieve industrialization on their own.


You are point blank painting everyone else like they are living in dark ages... .

Fanboy... your people were in the dark ages too all along. only now you are awakening. Your people will realise money does not buy the soul.

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## striver44

Syama Ayas said:


> You say this now because you are confident you can eradicate Uyghurs and face no consequences to it
> 
> If the roles were reversed with Hans at Uyghur mercy, you would squeal and whine victimhood like how your people do in regard to Japanese atrocities during WW2


Right on spot


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## aziqbal

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Why do you want useless filth to enter China, waste our resources and abuse our hospitality?



no one wants to come to China tourism is down by 58% 

I dont blame them 

*








Travels during the Chinese New Year Went Down by 58% | .TR


Chinese New Year is popular holiday where many people travel.




www.tourism-review.com




*

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## FairAndUnbiased

aziqbal said:


> Chinese fanboy listen here
> 
> You attack islam we will destroy you like we did USSR
> 
> once USSR tried to this now people say there used to a country called USSR
> 
> Spain tried and after 400 years now Spain has huge growing muslim population
> 
> we will conquer you sooner or later, islam wins every time and its the youngest of the monotheistic religions
> 
> Han Chinese fanboys like you are fundamentalist and in the West you are being targeted because of COVID
> 
> but you dont have any self respect so I know it will keep happening
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spit On, Yelled At, Attacked: Chinese-Americans Fear for Their Safety (Published 2020)
> 
> 
> As bigots blame them for the coronavirus and President Trump labels it the “Chinese virus,” many Chinese-Americans say they are terrified of what could come next.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com



and we're defending ourselves.









Asian Americans are increasingly purchasing guns to defend themselves amid a spike in hate crimes


A spike in anti-Asian hate crimes has fuelled a surge in gun purchases made by American Asians.




www.businessinsider.com





btw, you know how you're bragging about Chinese "being targeted because of COVID"?

that's a US federal hate crime. I heard bragging about how you're so much better than the west is really popular in prisons filled with white supremacists.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

SQ8 said:


> I am a fundamentalist - whatever you coin from that. Now if most of China is irreligious and generally have no other aspect than materialistic goals to offer that is fine, but don’t expect anyone else to agree to calling ethnic cleansing of culture and religion as “freedom”.



Do not interfere with our internal affairs, and there will be no problems. In general, Chinese take little interest in the internal governance and politics of others - until they interfere with ours.


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## fallstuff

penlei00 said:


> we Chinese are victims of racial discrimination. but It is a common human phenomenon to distinguish races by height, skin color, and IQ. the Japanese style racial discrimination is completely excluded foreigner from institutional arrangements and social life, Koreans are more arrogant and express racial oral attacks. we Chinese are tolerant and more friendly to people of different races, but we have firmness in our hearts. we will never allow our culture to be contaminated by foreign Abraham monotheism
> In fact, Indonesians discriminate the Chinese the most. Indonesia prohibits Chinese education, Chinese writing, prohibits Chinese from using Chinese names, and forces Chinese to use Indonesian names. Chinese Indonesians no longer speak Chinese. Many Chinese Indonesians believe in Islam and exclude Chinese. This is why I think China must learn how the Islamic state suppresses ethnic minorities to ensure national unity.
> Indonesia has been very successful in forced assimilation, depriving the Chinese of their property, and more importantly, destroying Chinese culture. The China has fallen into the trap of Marxist-Leninist discourse on ethnic groups. It over-protects and respects ethnic minority culture. that is more silly than American Black Lives Matter liberalism. I think China should learn from Indonesia’s racial discrimination program and completely destroy the Uyghur savages in Xinjiang.



*Uyghurs are the people of the land. They have been living there since time immemorial. Han Chinese are not the people of the land*. They were implanted by the Chinese authorities since 1950's or so. 

*Mao scrubbed Chinese culture a few decades ago with industrial quality bleach*. Your great leader Mao thought Chinese culture was worth destroying. 

Can you ever make up your mind ?

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## T-SaGe

Racism and Islamophobia, Soviet-type propaganda machines, systematic humiliation of the Uighurs, trying to prevent even the non-party states by demonizing them over fake claims, and all of these absurd arrogance that I see under this threads; all of these makes me understand better Chinese new generation. I've already started sharing some parts of these posts with my friends. Keep it up!


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## FairAndUnbiased

fallstuff said:


> *Uyghurs are the people of the land. They have been living there since time immemorial. Han Chinese are not the people of the land*. They were implanted by the Chinese authorities since 1950's or so.
> 
> *Mao scrubbed Chinese culture a few decades ago with industrial quality bleach*. Your great leader Mao thought Chinese culture was worth destroying.
> 
> Can you ever make up your mind ?



not true. Uyghurs are immigrants who are later to Xinjiang than Han Chinese. During the Uyghur Khaganate in 744-844 AD, they did not control Xinjiang.

The first Uyghur presence in Xiyu (today's Xinjiang) was in 843 when refugees from the khaganate established Qocho.

Han Chinese first conquered Xiyu from the Xiongnu in 100 BC and established a protectorate over the region. Han were there millenia earlier than Uyghurs and have equal rights to Xinjiang as white Americans in North America.


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## TOTUU

aziqbal said:


> *no one wants to come to China tourism is down by 58%*
> 
> I dont blame them
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Travels during the Chinese New Year Went Down by 58% | .TR
> 
> 
> Chinese New Year is popular holiday where many people travel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tourism-review.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


you are lying again .
You are very good at lying ,you explaining that people are traveling less to follow the government's policy to prevent and control the epidemic as domestic travel is down because no one wants to go to China! 

*You are a master at lying *，you giving links to the news without mentioning that the news said that the government was doing policies to prevent and control the epidemic.

Take a look at the Chinese government's website for a notice on prevention and control policies during the Chinese New Year. See what China is doing to stop the spread of foreign outbreaks to China and look at those visa policies.

I Suggestion you to check the global airfares, especially to China. There are surprises, haha






关于做好2021年元旦和春节期间新冠肺炎疫情防控工作的通知_部门政务_中国政府网


新冠肺炎疫情流行加速，我国本土疫情呈零星散发和局部聚集性疫情交织叠加态势，防控形势严峻复杂。元旦和春节（以下简称“两节”）期间，境外回国人员增多，境内人员流动性大，聚集性活动特别是室内活动多，进口冷链食品和货物物流增大，将加大疫情传播风险。为做好“两节”期间新冠肺炎疫情防控工作，经国务院应对新型冠状病毒感染肺炎疫情联防联控机制同意，现就有关事项通知如下。,2020-12-30-22:12:00




www.gov.cn





this is 2021 march wuhan

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## fallstuff

FairAndUnbiased said:


> not true. Uyghurs are immigrants who are later to Xinjiang than Han Chinese. During the Uyghur Khaganate in 744-844 AD, they did not control Xinjiang.
> 
> The first Uyghur presence in Xiyu (today's Xinjiang) was in 843 when refugees from the khaganate established Qocho.
> 
> Han Chinese first conquered Xiyu from the Xiongnu in 100 BC and established a protectorate over the region. Han were there millenia earlier than Uyghurs and have equal rights to Xinjiang as white Americans in North America.



*The Tarim mummies are a series of mummies discovered in the Tarim Basin in present-day Xinjiang, China, which date from **1800 BC to the first centuries BC*.[1][2][3] The mummies, particularly the early ones, are frequently associated with the presence of the Indo-European Tocharian languages in the Tarim Basin,[4] although the evidence is not totally conclusive and many centuries separate these mummies from the first attestation of the Tocharian languages in writing. Victor H. Mair's team concluded that the mummies are Caucasoid, likely speakers of Indo-European languages such as the Tocharians.









Tarim mummies - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






------------------------------------------------------




*Writing in the journals BMC Genetics and BMC Biology, Chunxiang Li, an ancient DNA specialist at Jilin University, and colleagues report on their analysis of human remains from the Xiaohe tomb complex also on the eastern edge of the basin. Dating to about 4000 years before presen*t, the site boasts notable artifacts like "numerous large phallus and vulva posts made of poplar, striking wooden human figurines and masts, well-preserved boat coffins, leather hides," as well as grain and other preserved organic material, they write. More importantly, Xiaohe has produced the oldest, best-preserved mummies in the Tarim Basin, ideal for testing hypotheses about the origins of these people, and the site spans a millennium, making it ideal for looking into population interaction after initial settlement.











In a Feb. 18, 2011 photo, the Beauty of Xiaohe, a mummy discovered in the Tarim Basin in far western... [+]
From the earliest layer of burials, Li and colleagues tested 20 individuals who produced affinities with 5 different mitochondrial DNA haplogroups, or major branches on the female side of the genetic family tree. "The dominant haplogroup," they write, "in the Xiaohe people was the East Eurasian lineage C" which corresponds with a likely origin in South Siberia. But there were also "two West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups H and K." In looking more closely at the lineages and mutations, however, Li and colleagues noted that several of the samples had mutations that are either rare in modern people or are not found in modern gene banks. They further analyzed Y chromosome haplogroups to attempt to identify major branches of the male line. But all seven males in the study belonged to a haplogroup that is widely distributed throughout Eurasia.










DNA Reveals These Red-Haired Chinese Mummies Come From Europe And Asia


Almost a century after their discovery, the European-looking Tarim mummies found in China continue to produce surprising DNA results.




www.forbes.com

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## Char

denel said:


> You are point blank painting everyone else like they are living in dark ages... .
> 
> Fanboy... your people were in the dark ages too all along. only now you are awakening. Your people will realise money does not buy the soul.



You keyboard guys don’t even know the situation in southern Xinjiang. They have difficulty even using water. Most of the places are deserts, and there are still so many births.


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## SQ8

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Do not interfere with our internal affairs, and there will be no problems. In general, Chinese take little interest in the internal governance and politics of others - until they interfere with ours.


Unfortunately for you, genocide is not an internal affair.


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## FairAndUnbiased

SQ8 said:


> Unfortunately for you, genocide is not an internal affair.



Where's the proof there's any genocide occuring? The only genocide in Central Asia is the one US drones have been conducting in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Some say the Pakistani government even allows this.


fallstuff said:


> *The Tarim mummies are a series of mummies discovered in the Tarim Basin in present-day Xinjiang, China, which date from **1800 BC to the first centuries BC*.[1][2][3] The mummies, particularly the early ones, are frequently associated with the presence of the Indo-European Tocharian languages in the Tarim Basin,[4] although the evidence is not totally conclusive and many centuries separate these mummies from the first attestation of the Tocharian languages in writing. Victor H. Mair's team concluded that the mummies are Caucasoid, likely speakers of Indo-European languages such as the Tocharians.
> 
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> Tarim mummies - Wikipedia
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> en.wikipedia.org
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> ------------------------------------------------------
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> 
> *Writing in the journals BMC Genetics and BMC Biology, Chunxiang Li, an ancient DNA specialist at Jilin University, and colleagues report on their analysis of human remains from the Xiaohe tomb complex also on the eastern edge of the basin. Dating to about 4000 years before presen*t, the site boasts notable artifacts like "numerous large phallus and vulva posts made of poplar, striking wooden human figurines and masts, well-preserved boat coffins, leather hides," as well as grain and other preserved organic material, they write. More importantly, Xiaohe has produced the oldest, best-preserved mummies in the Tarim Basin, ideal for testing hypotheses about the origins of these people, and the site spans a millennium, making it ideal for looking into population interaction after initial settlement.
> 
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> In a Feb. 18, 2011 photo, the Beauty of Xiaohe, a mummy discovered in the Tarim Basin in far western... [+]
> From the earliest layer of burials, Li and colleagues tested 20 individuals who produced affinities with 5 different mitochondrial DNA haplogroups, or major branches on the female side of the genetic family tree. "The dominant haplogroup," they write, "in the Xiaohe people was the East Eurasian lineage C" which corresponds with a likely origin in South Siberia. But there were also "two West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups H and K." In looking more closely at the lineages and mutations, however, Li and colleagues noted that several of the samples had mutations that are either rare in modern people or are not found in modern gene banks. They further analyzed Y chromosome haplogroups to attempt to identify major branches of the male line. But all seven males in the study belonged to a haplogroup that is widely distributed throughout Eurasia.
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> DNA Reveals These Red-Haired Chinese Mummies Come From Europe And Asia
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> Almost a century after their discovery, the European-looking Tarim mummies found in China continue to produce surprising DNA results.
> 
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> 
> www.forbes.com



Proof that Tocharians are the ancestors of Uighurs?


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## Indos

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Where's the proof there's any genocide occuring? The only genocide in Central Asia is the one US drones have been conducting in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Some say the Pakistani government even allows this.



Here Chinese own data, our friend @beijingwalker who posted it. It shows huge reduce of birth rate in Xinjiang province in just a year, a very anomaly event if we look on previous trend

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## FairAndUnbiased

Indos said:


> Here Chinese own data, our friend @beijingwalker who posted it. It shows huge reduce of birth rate in Xinjiang province in just a year, a very anomaly event if we look on previous trend
> 
> View attachment 734187



The same laws enforced on Han are now beginning enforced on Uighurs. It hasn't fully been enforced yet. Proof: their birth rate is still higher than national average.

When you are used to privilege, equality feels like oppression. Uighurs privilege in Xinjiang is ending.


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## Indos

FairAndUnbiased said:


> The same laws enforced on Han are now beginning enforced on Uighurs. It hasn't fully been enforced yet. Proof: their birth rate is still higher than national average.
> 
> When you are used to privilege, equality feels like oppression. Uighurs privilege in Xinjiang is ending.



Some said in the Western side that CCP uses forced sterilization to the women there. As far as I know there is no new regulation from CCP to limit the number of kids that Uigyur parent can have. And since China has declining birth rate, I doubt they are going to limit minority ethnic birth rate

Just curious, How many kids that Han now can have ??? I heard the gov has changed previous policy


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## tower9

Turkey may have been more supportive of Uighur independence back in the 90s and 00s. But they've backed off a bit in the past few years because they need to cooperate with China economically.


aziqbal said:


> no one wants to come to China tourism is down by 58%
> 
> I dont blame them
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Travels during the Chinese New Year Went Down by 58% | .TR
> 
> 
> Chinese New Year is popular holiday where many people travel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tourism-review.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Actually Chinese tourism is booming because Chinese tourists, who are the world's biggest spenders, are keeping their money at home and domestic tourism is soaring. China was never a huge international destination of foreign tourists anyways because of negative propaganda in the West, so domestic tourism is booming.

Don't take my word for it. This Venezuelan guy works in China as a hotel manager.


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## HalfMoon

Turkey and Pakistan are part of BRI and do not support Uyghurs.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Indos said:


> Some said in the Western side that CCP uses forced sterilization to the women there. As far as I know there is no new regulation from CCP to limit the number of kids that Uigyur parent can have. And since China has declining birth rate, I doubt they are going to limit minority ethnic birth rate
> 
> Just curious, How many kids that Han now can have ??? I heard the gov has changed previous policy



2. Declining birth rates mean nothing by themselves, particularly if they're still higher than the national average by far. The previous difference is bigger than the difference between developed countries and sub Saharan African ones.


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## Indos

FairAndUnbiased said:


> 2. Declining birth rates mean nothing by themselves, particularly if they're still higher than the national average by far. The previous difference is bigger than the difference between developed countries and sub Saharan African ones.



So you still cannot answer my questions there ??


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## FairAndUnbiased

Indos said:


> So you still cannot answer my questions there ??



I answered. 2 children per Han couple.


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## Indos

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I answered. 2 children per Han couple.



How about non Han ethnic ?


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## Char

SQ8 said:


> Unfortunately for you, genocide is not an internal affair.



The Islamization of Xinjiang is actually genocide.

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## penlei00

Char said:


> Without industrialization, southern Xinjiang cannot support such a large population, and without the help of the central government and developed regions, they cannot achieve industrialization on their own.


It’s ridiculous, you’re stupid. Southern Xinjiang has long been a Malthusian trap. According to the Malthusian law, turmoil and famine should have occurred long ago, eliminating the excess population. The Syrian population quickly expanded three times before the turmoil. The most obvious example is Yemen, Yemen’s population. The growth is extremely fast, and Yemeni men have been chewing on the soft drug KHAT all day long, planting khat trees, which are extremely water-consuming, instead of growing food. As early as 2008, when I saw Yemeni men eating KHAT video in YOUTUBE, I remembered the flood of opium in the late Qing Dynasty in China. I guessed that there will be turmoil and famine in Yemen. The wars and turmoil in these countries that caused the death of a large number of people are all operating in accordance with this historical law.

The southern part of Xinjiang is surrounded by deserts and mountains, transportation costs are extremely high, and the quality of labor is extremely low. Uyghurs have no sense of discipline and order. Only fools try to industrialize southern Xinjiang regardless of economic laws. You read too many articles by Chinese domestic industry party scholars

China now maintains a stable method in Xinjiang, which is extremely costly, and the effect is not good, and it has been discredited and slandered by the United States. It only temporarily suppressed Uyghurs’ racist discrimination and attacks against the Chinese. You have not mistaken what I said. Uyghurs consider themselves to be of Caucasian descent and discriminate against East Asians, especially Han, because the Chinese Hans do not rule them as cruelly as the Zhungeer Mongols. In the barbaric and cruel grassland nomadic culture, anyone with gratitude and tolerance cannot survive. Therefore, the race of nomadic culture cannot form a culture of gratitude and tolerance. Others are hell.

I personally think that Xinjiang will no longer be stable. As long as the Chinese government relaxes its suppression of the barbaric Uyghurs, chaos will follow.
To be honest, if Xinjiang becomes Syria or Yemen, it can perfectly escape the Malthus trap. When the proportion of population and resources is right, order will be restored naturally


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## Naram_Sin

The whole Uighur debacle is an attempt by the west to reuse Islam against China as they did before with the soviet union, this time with turkey and the muslim brotherhood taking the role that Saudi arabia did during the soviet time, a call of jihad against China for the so called unverified atrocities against the uighurs while turning a blind eye what is happening to muslims in India and yemen.

TLDR, China should recognize Turkey and the muslim brotherhood for what they are, an adversary.

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## penlei00

T-SaGe said:


> Racism and Islamophobia, Soviet-type propaganda machines, systematic humiliation of the Uighurs, trying to prevent even the non-party states by demonizing them over fake claims, and all of these absurd arrogance that I see under this threads; all of these makes me understand better Chinese new generation. I've already started sharing some parts of these posts with my friends. Keep it up!



The current Turkey“s Turks and asia Turks are not genetically related, and modern Turkey“s Turks and Armenians are actually Hutu and Tutsi. The Turkization Armenians became Turkey“s Turks.


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## penlei00

denel said:


> There was NO ISIS... Just your govt's propaganda. Please stop putting lies to seek excuses.
> 
> You are totally clueless on guerilla warfare. go and read your own history.


The Chinese know guerrilla warfare better than anyone else, because the Communist Party of China first developed from the guerrillas. The deserts of Xinjiang divide the oasis, especially the southern Xinjiang where Uyghurs live. Xinjiang is a basin surrounded by the Pamirs, Tibet Plateau, and large deserts. Terrorists have no terrain conditions to fight guerrilla warfare with the Chinese People's Liberation Army. 

I suggest you buy a topographic map and study it carefully to see who does not understand guerrilla warfare.


Syama Ayas said:


> You say this now because you are confident you can eradicate Uyghurs and face no consequences to it
> 
> If the roles were reversed with Hans at Uyghur mercy, you would squeal and whine victimhood like how your people do in regard to Japanese atrocities during WW2


I was watching the Indian movie White Tiger recently and I learned about the Indian mentality


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## Char

penlei00 said:


> It’s ridiculous, you’re stupid. Southern Xinjiang has long been a Malthusian trap. According to the Malthusian law, turmoil and famine should have occurred long ago, eliminating the excess population. The Syrian population quickly expanded three times before the turmoil. The most obvious example is Yemen, Yemen’s population. The growth is extremely fast, and Yemeni men have been chewing on the soft drug KHAT all day long, planting khat trees, which are extremely water-consuming, instead of growing food. As early as 2008, when I saw Yemeni men eating KHAT video in YOUTUBE, I remembered the flood of opium in the late Qing Dynasty in China. I guessed that there will be turmoil and famine in Yemen. The wars and turmoil in these countries that caused the death of a large number of people are all operating in accordance with this historical law.
> 
> The southern part of Xinjiang is surrounded by deserts and mountains, transportation costs are extremely high, and the quality of labor is extremely low. Uyghurs have no sense of discipline and order. Only fools try to industrialize southern Xinjiang regardless of economic laws. You read too many articles by Chinese domestic industry party scholars
> 
> China now maintains a stable method in Xinjiang, which is extremely costly, and the effect is not good, and it has been discredited and slandered by the United States. It only temporarily suppressed Uyghurs’ racist discrimination and attacks against the Chinese. You have not mistaken what I said. Uyghurs consider themselves to be of Caucasian descent and discriminate against East Asians, especially Han, because the Chinese Hans do not rule them as cruelly as the Zhungeer Mongols. In the barbaric and cruel grassland nomadic culture, anyone with gratitude and tolerance cannot survive. Therefore, the race of nomadic culture cannot form a culture of gratitude and tolerance. Others are hell.
> 
> I personally think that Xinjiang will no longer be stable. As long as the Chinese government relaxes its suppression of the barbaric Uyghurs, chaos will follow.
> To be honest, if Xinjiang becomes Syria or Yemen, it can perfectly escape the Malthus trap. When the proportion of population and resources is right, order will be restored naturally



The Chinese Communist Party actually protected the Uyghurs. If blood is used for blood, the Uyghurs would have been wiped out long ago. The Chinese Communist Party has treated the ethnic minorities better than the feudal dynasties. The Han people have always complained that CPC is too soft to the Uyghurs, but they can maintain stability at present.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

denel said:


> You are point blank painting everyone else like they are living in dark ages... .


Chinese version of Han man's burden


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## aziqbal

tower9 said:


> Turkey may have been more supportive of Uighur independence back in the 90s and 00s. But they've backed off a bit in the past few years because they need to cooperate with China economically.
> 
> 
> Actually Chinese tourism is booming because Chinese tourists, who are the world's biggest spenders, are keeping their money at home and domestic tourism is soaring. China was never a huge international destination of foreign tourists anyways because of negative propaganda in the West, so domestic tourism is booming.
> 
> Don't take my word for it. This Venezuelan guy works in China as a hotel manager.



Chinese YouTube videos are not credible source of information

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## aziqbal

tower9 said:


> You are one dumb piece of shit. How is what I’ve said related to any Chinese YouTube video?



because you are posting fake videos

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## Char

FairAndUnbiased said:


> the way to avoid bloodshed is to modernize them. let them take off their burka, put on swimsuit. take off their taqiyah caps, put on baseball caps. stop listening to chanting, start listening to rap.
> 
> when they learn how liberating and fun it is to be part of the Chinese mainstream, they will forget all about the preachings of old, far away fanatics.



Modernization is not Westernization, you need to remember this.

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## tower9

aziqbal said:


> because you are posting fake videos



Sorry your mind was so fucking blown that you think actual videos of actual places are fake.

Keep blowing your mind.

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## aziqbal

tower9 said:


> Sorry your mind was so fucking blown that you think actual videos of actual places are fake.
> 
> Keep blowing your mind.



off topic, reported

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## tower9

....

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## aziqbal

tower9 said:


> You're such a whining baby. LMAO grow the **** up.



breaking forum rules by swearing reported


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## HalfMoon

Turkey no longer supports Uyghurs.

Turkey stopped supporting Uyghurs since they joined BRI.

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## T-SaGe

HalfMoon said:


> Turkey no longer supports Uyghurs.
> 
> Turkey stopped supporting Uyghurs since they joined BRI.



Correction: *Turkey did not support any separatist movement about the Uighurs in any period.* There is not even one official basis on this issue. Fabrication post-truth activities only... Of course, the Turkish public highly sensitive on this, But I don't think there is an environment where I can explain these in such a toxic discussion culture (just read a litle similiar threads). 


Spoiler: 1



This sensitivity of the Turkish people has sociological and historical reasons. We experienced worse of them during the Bulgarian Communist Party era, even the names of our people were changed. We experienced similar problems in Cyprus in the 60s and 70s. And many many other examples we had to experience it. And the most terrifying thing we saw was during the period of the Russian communism. Probably half of the Turkish people in Turkey have such a story. Those who fled the Circassian genocide, those who fled the Cretan or Crimea massacres and, those who were expelled or subjected cruelties from the Balkans and even in the Asia Minor... Anatolia became the last stronghold we took shelter in. Turkish state was able to help when it could. When our strength is not enough, we had to watch them from afar. The assimilation and even massacres experienced by the Turks without a state are the great tragedies in our history. That is why, when a Turkish Uighur girl comes across with crying and says "I want my father", or when describes how her mother died in the concentration camp or telling about the rapes and systematic abusing, our hearts will not stand it.





Spoiler: 1























*Giving a residence permit to someone who has taken refuge in your country does not mean to support anything.*

The only issue that can be the subject of discussion here is the political asylum requests. Some Uighurs who are threatened to be deprivation of liberty (or threatened to be taken to internment, (aka concentration camp) in today's terminology) or whose family members are in this situation, apply for political asylum. Moreover, these are not all ordinary people as you might think. In the 80s, political asylum requests were received even from Chinese consular mission members.

Among these, extradition procedures are carried out for those who wanted by ordinary crimes, etc., or those who have a request for arrest through Interpol.

Well, Uighurs living in Turkey are doing what? They they try to make their voices heard and explain the oppression they are subjected in their homeland to in every environment they are in. Do they get support? Yes. We speak the same language. We are part of the same culture.

Turkey is trying to stay away as much as possible from US propagandas and its interests in China. If Turkey had supported the activities of the USA on this issue, believe me, the developments would have proceeded very differently. However, the Turkish government sees that being provoked on this issue more about itself. The main problem is that the US future global economic strategy is incompatible with Turkish interests.

The problem here is the wholesale view that wants to understand everything about the Uighurs in the way of a US conspiracy, and the discomfort even to talk about it. I don't think there is a single member here who has written anything with the Uighurs and has not been insulted or provoked to be banned.


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## Naram_Sin

Turkey plays nice with China publicly, while it pushes its muslim brotherhood cult to demonize china 24 hours all over the sunni muslim space. 

Eventually an entity similar to Isis will emerge in afghanistan right on Chinas border, the goal is to obtain the power to jeoperdize the BRI.

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## CAPRICORN-88

_The way I look at him. USA and allies have lost it in Xinjiang. 

Now *BCI has removed all the contents relating to allegations about forced Uyghur labor in Xinjiang from it official websites *as most of its members threatened to leave. 

It has backfired in them. 

Thanks to USA , ASPI in Australia, iSIS terrorists, etc many people around the world esp. the Muslim nations suddenly discovered how effective China reeducation and retraining programs worked.
Their lies are all debunked.
Today Uyghurs are in fact living better. 
China succeeded in eliminating iSIS terrorism in Xinjiang. 
  _


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## master_13



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## Globenim

The US government and their pawns dont care about people proving their lies wrong. Their agents are trained to lie straight into your face about the most basic facts and insist the most ridicolous bullshit. Like that hundreds of people lifestreaming or daily reporting their travel are all staged by actors or otherwise dismiss them as illegitmate or deflect with dumb nonsense "but I cant visit Guantanamo without any supervisors so every lie about China is true". They will go there and claim Mosques are shut down while walking by an open Mosque or two then pretend nobody can go there. They will report the three different stories of the same fake US agent and not bat an eye about the contradictions. They will use the pictures of some happy old Han Chinese grandma and claim shes some Uighur slave laborer. They will claim moral superiority in a noexistant argument between their blatant lies and the plain truth because of some imaginary buzzword like free speech while actively supressing, deplatforming and censoring and threatening people speaking the truth.

It didnt start with the US governments campaign to harm Chinese in Xinjiang and laying the groundwork to grow extremist terrorism in China viccinity. They spread these ridicolous lies all the time. "Aggressive Chinese invasions" into invented airspaces marked by invented air idenfitication zones drawn randomly over Chinas airports. Calling Vietnamese commuters and traders Chinese refugees to cope with Chinas economic rebound. Inventing power outages in China to cope with sanctions on Australia. Blaming China for debts when China bails countries out of Western and primarily British and American debt traps shackeling African and Asian countries since centuries. Dumb shit like grossly miscounting cars on some arbitrary satellite pictures just to produce some story out of nowhere to jump to some conclusions feeding their Covid lies about China. Blaming China for hiding information they got from Chinese media in first place. Gloating about overbearing Chinese presence in Africa while driving trough an African street seamed by English rather than African signs and interviewing Africans with an English surnames in a country whos mines are almost entirely owned by English foreigners. Inventing Chinese spy chip discoveries using Japanese chip images that never happend because the site never even used the Chinese hardware they tried to slander. They dont care how ridicolous the fabrications are.

Most of their lies about China exist just for the sake of it. Whatever the lie is about, wether its to create a smokescreen to hide dirty businesss behind or attack some Chinese industry to benefit their own uncompettive and lower quality ones is just secondary. They are happy if you waste time debunking all their bullshit or otherwise draw attention to their lies. Its how libel works and why its frowned upon and outlawed in civilized countries which the USA doesnt belong with.

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## denel

During the time of Ramadhan, make a prayers from brothers/sisters in islam who are held prison for their beliefs and unable to fast or pray.





__





Free the Muslims Detained in Chinese Concentration Camps - Save Uighur


Millions of Muslims are detained at Chinese concentration camps. This is the largest mass detention of people since the Holocaust. Join us & ACT NOW.




www.saveuighur.org





This is a global issue hence posting it in world affairs. Pass it along and highlight their plight.

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## Globenim

Oh look another 3 letter agency textbook slogan for another U.S. based fake activist front to export U.S. American terrrorism abroad, peddling U.S. state propaganda lies.

Tell us more about the same old China boogeyman story, invented by some "indpendendent" right wing Christian fundamentalist funded by the U.S. regime and its military industry, who calls Muslims heathens that will go to hell, dear Muslim butchering U.S. American terrrorist... 🙄

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## Beast

denel said:


> During the time of Ramadhan, make a prayers from brothers/sisters in islam who are held prison for their beliefs and unable to fast or pray.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Free the Muslims Detained in Chinese Concentration Camps - Save Uighur
> 
> 
> Millions of Muslims are detained at Chinese concentration camps. This is the largest mass detention of people since the Holocaust. Join us & ACT NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saveuighur.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a global issue hence posting it in world affairs. Pass it along and highlight their plight.


@waz @LeGenD

Shouldn't this thread be combined with all about Xinjiang thread? OP try to ignored rules from moderator and start a fresh thread to stir trouble.

@Foxtrot Alpha
This members once again bring in religion hatre and try stir trouble. I am warn once for doing that and I hope he is no exceptional.





__





ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.


OMG, this "STICKY thread" is probably turning into the one of the "MOST DISGUSTING" troll thread i've ever came across of my decade membership on PDF @krash @waz , please check out what this "China Hater" @striver44 has done this thread starting from post #4259 thankyou



defence.pk


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## Bambi

Women who made allegations last month of rape and sexual abuse in Chinese detention camps have been harassed and smeared in the weeks since. Rights groups say the attacks are typical of an aggressive campaign by China to silence those who speak up.

BBC
Qelbinur Sedik at her home in the Netherlands this week
IMAGE SOURCE,JEREMY MEEK/BBC
Image caption,
Qelbinur Sedik at her home in the Netherlands this week

BBC
Qelbinur Sedik was making breakfast when the video call came, and the sight of her sister's name made her nervous. Many months had passed since the two had spoken. In fact, many months had passed since Sedik had spoken to any of her family in China.

Sedik was in the kitchen of her temporary home in the Netherlands, where she shared a room with several other refugees, mostly from Africa. Two weeks earlier, she and three other women had spoken to the BBC for a story about alleged rape and torture in China's secretive detention camps in the Xinjiang region, where Sedik worked as a camp teacher.

Now her sister was calling.

ADVERTISEMENT

She hit answer, but when the picture appeared it wasn't her sister on the screen, it was a policeman from her hometown in Xinjiang.

"What are you up to Qelbinur?" he said, smiling. "Who are you with?"

This was not the first time the officer had called from her sister's phone. This time, Sedik took a screenshot. When he heard the sound it made, the officer removed his numbered police jacket, Sedik said. She took another screenshot.

BBC
Police composite
BBC
'You must think very carefully'
In conversations with the BBC over the past few weeks, 22 people who have left Xinjiang to live abroad described a pattern of threats, harassment, and public character attacks they said were designed to deter them from speaking out about alleged human rights abuses back home.

According to UN estimates, China has detained more than a million Uyghurs and other Muslims in camps in Xinjiang. The Chinese state has been accused of an array of abuses there including forced labour, sterilisation, torture, rape, and genocide. China denies those charges, saying its camps are "re-education" facilities for combatting terrorism.

Among the few who have fled Xinjiang and spoken publicly, many have received a call like the one to Sedik that morning - from a police officer or government official at their family home, or from a relative summoned to a police station. Sometimes the calls contain vague advice to consider the welfare of their family in Xinjiang, sometimes direct threats to detain and punish relatives.

Others have been publicly smeared in press conferences or state media videos; or been subjected to barrages of messages or hacking attempts directed at their phones. (Last week, Facebook said that it had discovered "an extremely targeted operation" emanating from China to hack Uyghur activists abroad.)

Some of those who spoke to the BBC - from the US, UK, Australia, Norway, the Netherlands, Finland, Germany, and Turkey - provided screenshots of threatening WhatsApp, WeChat and Facebook messages; others described in detail what had been said in phone and video calls. Everyone described some form of detention or harassment of their family members in Xinjiang by local police or state security officials.

BBC
A gate of what is officially known as a "vocational skills education centre" in Xinjiang
IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS
Image caption,
A gate of what is officially known as a "vocational skills education centre" in Xinjiang

BBC
When Qelbinur Sedik recounted the call from the policeman that morning, via her sister's phone, she buried her head in her hands and wept.

"He said, 'You must bear in mind that all your family and relatives are with us. You must think very carefully about that fact.'

"He stressed that several times, then he said, 'You have been living abroad for some time now, you must have a lot of friends. Can you give us their names?'

When she refused, the officer put Sedik's sister on the call, she said, and her sister shouted at her, 'Shut up! You should shut up from now on!', followed by a string of insults.

"At that point I couldn't control my emotions," Sedik said. "My tears flowed."

Before the officer hung up, Sedik said, he told her several times to go to the Chinese embassy so the staff there could arrange her safe passage back to China - a common instruction in these kinds of calls.

"This country opens its arms to you," he said.

'Misogyny as a communication style'
Reports of this type of intimidation are not new, but Uyghur activists say China has become more aggressive in response to growing outrage over alleged rights abuses in Xinjiang. The Chinese government has gone on the attack in public in recent weeks, directing a slew of misogynistic abuse specifically at women who have spoken up about alleged sexual assaults.

At recent press conferences, China's foreign ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin and Xinjiang official Xu Guixiang held up pictures of women who gave first-hand accounts of sexual abuse in detention camps and called them "liars"; said one was "morally depraved" and of "inferior character"; and accused another of adultery. One woman was branded a "bitch of bad moral quality" by a former husband in what appeared to be a staged video put out by state media; another was called a "scumbag" and "child abuser" by a Chinese official.

BBC
Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin holds pictures while speaking during a news conference in Beijing, China February 23, 2021,
IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS
Image caption,
Wang Wenbin holds up pictures of witnesses at a press conference in Beijing last month

BBC
Wang, the foreign ministry spokesman, revealed what he said were private medical records, claiming that they disproved one woman's account of having an IUD forcibly fitted. Officials have also claimed that sexually transmitted diseases were responsible for fertility problems suffered by former camp detainees, rather than violent physical abuse, and put out a range of propaganda material calling the women "actresses".

Tursunay Ziawudun, a former camp detainee who is now in the US, was one of the women attacked at a press conference. When she watched it, she was relieved Wang had not mentioned her family, she said, but "deeply sad" about the rest. Ziawudun has previously recounted being raped and tortured during her detention in Xinjiang in 2018.

"After all the horrors they inflicted on me, how can they be so cruel and shameless as to attack me publicly?" she said in a phone interview after the press conference.

The attacks on Ziawudun and others showed that China was "adopting misogyny as a style of public communication," said James Millward, a professor of Chinese history at Georgetown University.

"We have these various women coming forward and telling very credible stories about how they've been abused," he said. "And the response shows a complete tone deafness and misunderstanding of how sexual assault and sexual trauma is being understood and treated now. Besides being horrifying, it's also completely counterproductive for the Chinese state."

The Chinese embassy in London told the BBC that China stood by its assertions that the women's accounts of rape and sexual abuse were lies, and said it was reasonable to publicise private medical records as evidence.

BBC
Tursunay Ziawudun at her new home in the US last month
IMAGE SOURCE,HANNAH LONG-HIGGINS/BBC
Image caption,
Tursunay Ziawudun at her new home in the US last month

BBC
Two other women who spoke to the BBC have been the targets of what appear to be highly staged videos, published by Chinese state media, in which their family and friends insult them and accuse them of stealing money and telling lies. According to a report published last month by the US-based Uyghur Human Rights Project, China has produced at least 22 videos in which individuals are allegedly forced to make scripted statements, often denouncing their family members as liars or thieves.

Aziz Isa Elkun, a Uyghur exile in the UK, had not been able to contact his elderly mother and sister for years when he saw them in a Chinese state media video calling him a liar and a shame on the family. Elkun's crime had been to draw attention to the destruction of Uyghur cemeteries in Xinjiang, including his father's tomb.

"You could tell what they were saying was scripted, but it was still extremely painful to see my elderly mother in a Chinese propaganda film," Elkun said.

Qelbinur Sedik is worried a similar video of her husband could be released any day, she said. He told her on the phone late last year that Chinese officials had visited him at home in Xinjiang and forced him to recite lines calling her a liar. He said he struggled so much to say the lines correctly that it took four hours to film the short clip.

BBC
Qelbinur Sedik recently moved out of refugee accommodation into a small home in the Netherlands
IMAGE SOURCE,JEREMY MEEK/BBC
Image caption,
Qelbinur Sedik recently moved out of refugee accommodation into a small home in the Netherlands

BBC
'Maybe we can co-operate'
Another common form of harassment described by those who spoke to the BBC was pressure to spy on fellow Uyghurs and organisations that scrutinise China, often in return for contact with family, guarantees of relatives' safety, or access to visas or passports.

A Uyghur British citizen who did not want to be named said he was harassed repeatedly by intelligence officials during and after a visit to Xinjiang and told to spy on Uyghur groups and on Amnesty International, by joining the charity as a volunteer. When he refused, he received repeated calls from his brother pleading with him to do it, he said.

Jevlan Shirmemmet, who left Xinjiang to study in Turkey, gave the BBC a recording of a call he received a few weeks after posting on social media about his family's mass arrest in Xinjiang. The caller, who said he was from the Chinese embassy in Ankara, told Shirmemmet to "write down everyone you've been in contact with since you left Xinjiang," and send an email "describing your activities," so that "the mainland might reconsider your family's situation". Another Uyghur in exile in Turkey described a similar call from the same embassy.

Mustafa Aksu, a 34-year-old activist in the US who said his parents had been harassed in Xinjiang, showed the BBC text and voice messages from an old school friend - now a Chinese police officer - who Aksu said was pressuring him to provide information about Uyghur activists.

"He says, 'Maybe we can co-operate. I'm sure you must miss your parents.'"

BBC
Jevlan Shirmemmet has publicly protested for the release of his mother
Image caption,
Jevlan Shirmemmet has publicly protested for the release of his mother

BBC
Not everyone feels that they can refuse these requests. "When I say no, they get my younger brother and sister to call and tell me to do it," said a Uyghur student in Turkey, who provided screenshots of the messages from police. "They could send my brother and sister to a concentration camp. What choice do I have?" she said.

Some have sought to protect themselves by gradually cutting off means of contact. "You can throw away the phone and cancel the number," said Abdulweli Ayup, a Uyghur linguist in Norway, "but you cancel your number and they contact you on Facebook; you delete Facebook and they contact you by email."

Others have tried beyond hope to stay in touch. A Uyghur exile in the Netherlands said she still sends pictures and emojis to her young son and parents, four years after her number was blocked. "Maybe one day they will see," she said.

The BBC was not able to independently verify the identities of the people behind the calls and messages provided by various interviewees, but Uyghur rights activists say efforts to coerce Uyghurs to spy for the Chinese government are common.

"It comes as an offer first - 'You won't have any more visa problems', or 'We can help your family' - that kind of thing," said Rahima Mahmut, a prominent UK-based Uyghur activist. "Later it comes as a threat," she said.

The UK Foreign Office told the BBC it was "closely monitoring reports that members of the Uyghur diaspora in the UK have been harassed by the Chinese authorities", and that it had "raised our concerns directly with the Chinese embassy in London".

The Chinese embassy in London told the BBC that the allegations in this story were "completely untrue" and it was "baffling that the BBC so readily believes whatever is said by a few 'East Turkestan' elements outside China" - using another term for the Xinjiang region.

BBC
Members of Uighur minority hold placards as they demonstrate on February 22, 2021 near China consulate in Istanbul
IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY
Image caption,
Uyghur protesters in Istanbul last month. Uyghurs in Turkey fear they could be deported to China

BBC
Despite the growing public outrage over alleged abuses in Xinjiang, the number of people who have spoken publicly remains vanishingly small compared with the estimated number detained. China has been tremendously successful at silencing people through fear, said Nury Turkel, a commissioner on the US Commission on International Religious Freedom.

"Millions of people have disappeared into the camps, and yet we have only a handful of Uyghurs speaking out against the detention of their loved ones," Turkel said. "Why? Because they are afraid."

Some Uyghurs who have criticised China have managed to maintain limited contact with loved ones. Ferkat Jawdat, a prominent activist in the US, speaks to his mother regularly now, after campaigning publicly for her release from detention. She is under house arrest, and her calls are monitored, but she is there on the other end of the line.

It can be hard to make sense of why some Uyghurs are harassed and others are not; some allowed contact with loved ones and others not. Some have speculated that China is "A/B testing" - trying to work out whether fear or kindness is more efficient. For the thousands who are cut off, it can feel ruthless and arbitrary.

Jawdat knows that the likelihood of seeing his mother again before she dies is diminishing, so when they speak on the phone they speak carefully. He did tell her once that Chinese state media had put out a video of her saying she was ashamed of him. She said she knew, they had come to film it a few days earlier. "How did I look?" she joked. Then, taking a risk, she told him she was proud of him.

"It was the unscripted version," he said.









The cost of speaking up against China


Uyghurs abroad describe a pattern of harassment and intimidation they say is designed to silence them.



www.google.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## denel

Bambi said:


> Women who made allegations last month of rape and sexual abuse in Chinese detention camps have been harassed and smeared in the weeks since. Rights groups say the attacks are typical of an aggressive campaign by China to silence those who speak up.
> 
> BBC
> Qelbinur Sedik at her home in the Netherlands this week
> IMAGE SOURCE,JEREMY MEEK/BBC
> Image caption,
> Qelbinur Sedik at her home in the Netherlands this week
> 
> BBC
> Qelbinur Sedik was making breakfast when the video call came, and the sight of her sister's name made her nervous. Many months had passed since the two had spoken. In fact, many months had passed since Sedik had spoken to any of her family in China.
> 
> Sedik was in the kitchen of her temporary home in the Netherlands, where she shared a room with several other refugees, mostly from Africa. Two weeks earlier, she and three other women had spoken to the BBC for a story about alleged rape and torture in China's secretive detention camps in the Xinjiang region, where Sedik worked as a camp teacher.
> 
> Now her sister was calling.
> 
> ADVERTISEMENT
> 
> She hit answer, but when the picture appeared it wasn't her sister on the screen, it was a policeman from her hometown in Xinjiang.
> 
> "What are you up to Qelbinur?" he said, smiling. "Who are you with?"
> 
> This was not the first time the officer had called from her sister's phone. This time, Sedik took a screenshot. When he heard the sound it made, the officer removed his numbered police jacket, Sedik said. She took another screenshot.
> 
> BBC
> Police composite
> BBC
> 'You must think very carefully'
> In conversations with the BBC over the past few weeks, 22 people who have left Xinjiang to live abroad described a pattern of threats, harassment, and public character attacks they said were designed to deter them from speaking out about alleged human rights abuses back home.
> 
> According to UN estimates, China has detained more than a million Uyghurs and other Muslims in camps in Xinjiang. The Chinese state has been accused of an array of abuses there including forced labour, sterilisation, torture, rape, and genocide. China denies those charges, saying its camps are "re-education" facilities for combatting terrorism.
> 
> Among the few who have fled Xinjiang and spoken publicly, many have received a call like the one to Sedik that morning - from a police officer or government official at their family home, or from a relative summoned to a police station. Sometimes the calls contain vague advice to consider the welfare of their family in Xinjiang, sometimes direct threats to detain and punish relatives.
> 
> Others have been publicly smeared in press conferences or state media videos; or been subjected to barrages of messages or hacking attempts directed at their phones. (Last week, Facebook said that it had discovered "an extremely targeted operation" emanating from China to hack Uyghur activists abroad.)
> 
> Some of those who spoke to the BBC - from the US, UK, Australia, Norway, the Netherlands, Finland, Germany, and Turkey - provided screenshots of threatening WhatsApp, WeChat and Facebook messages; others described in detail what had been said in phone and video calls. Everyone described some form of detention or harassment of their family members in Xinjiang by local police or state security officials.
> 
> BBC
> A gate of what is officially known as a "vocational skills education centre" in Xinjiang
> IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS
> Image caption,
> A gate of what is officially known as a "vocational skills education centre" in Xinjiang
> 
> BBC
> When Qelbinur Sedik recounted the call from the policeman that morning, via her sister's phone, she buried her head in her hands and wept.
> 
> "He said, 'You must bear in mind that all your family and relatives are with us. You must think very carefully about that fact.'
> 
> "He stressed that several times, then he said, 'You have been living abroad for some time now, you must have a lot of friends. Can you give us their names?'
> 
> When she refused, the officer put Sedik's sister on the call, she said, and her sister shouted at her, 'Shut up! You should shut up from now on!', followed by a string of insults.
> 
> "At that point I couldn't control my emotions," Sedik said. "My tears flowed."
> 
> Before the officer hung up, Sedik said, he told her several times to go to the Chinese embassy so the staff there could arrange her safe passage back to China - a common instruction in these kinds of calls.
> 
> "This country opens its arms to you," he said.
> 
> 'Misogyny as a communication style'
> Reports of this type of intimidation are not new, but Uyghur activists say China has become more aggressive in response to growing outrage over alleged rights abuses in Xinjiang. The Chinese government has gone on the attack in public in recent weeks, directing a slew of misogynistic abuse specifically at women who have spoken up about alleged sexual assaults.
> 
> At recent press conferences, China's foreign ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin and Xinjiang official Xu Guixiang held up pictures of women who gave first-hand accounts of sexual abuse in detention camps and called them "liars"; said one was "morally depraved" and of "inferior character"; and accused another of adultery. One woman was branded a "bitch of bad moral quality" by a former husband in what appeared to be a staged video put out by state media; another was called a "scumbag" and "child abuser" by a Chinese official.
> 
> BBC
> Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin holds pictures while speaking during a news conference in Beijing, China February 23, 2021,
> IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS
> Image caption,
> Wang Wenbin holds up pictures of witnesses at a press conference in Beijing last month
> 
> BBC
> Wang, the foreign ministry spokesman, revealed what he said were private medical records, claiming that they disproved one woman's account of having an IUD forcibly fitted. Officials have also claimed that sexually transmitted diseases were responsible for fertility problems suffered by former camp detainees, rather than violent physical abuse, and put out a range of propaganda material calling the women "actresses".
> 
> Tursunay Ziawudun, a former camp detainee who is now in the US, was one of the women attacked at a press conference. When she watched it, she was relieved Wang had not mentioned her family, she said, but "deeply sad" about the rest. Ziawudun has previously recounted being raped and tortured during her detention in Xinjiang in 2018.
> 
> "After all the horrors they inflicted on me, how can they be so cruel and shameless as to attack me publicly?" she said in a phone interview after the press conference.
> 
> The attacks on Ziawudun and others showed that China was "adopting misogyny as a style of public communication," said James Millward, a professor of Chinese history at Georgetown University.
> 
> "We have these various women coming forward and telling very credible stories about how they've been abused," he said. "And the response shows a complete tone deafness and misunderstanding of how sexual assault and sexual trauma is being understood and treated now. Besides being horrifying, it's also completely counterproductive for the Chinese state."
> 
> The Chinese embassy in London told the BBC that China stood by its assertions that the women's accounts of rape and sexual abuse were lies, and said it was reasonable to publicise private medical records as evidence.
> 
> BBC
> Tursunay Ziawudun at her new home in the US last month
> IMAGE SOURCE,HANNAH LONG-HIGGINS/BBC
> Image caption,
> Tursunay Ziawudun at her new home in the US last month
> 
> BBC
> Two other women who spoke to the BBC have been the targets of what appear to be highly staged videos, published by Chinese state media, in which their family and friends insult them and accuse them of stealing money and telling lies. According to a report published last month by the US-based Uyghur Human Rights Project, China has produced at least 22 videos in which individuals are allegedly forced to make scripted statements, often denouncing their family members as liars or thieves.
> 
> Aziz Isa Elkun, a Uyghur exile in the UK, had not been able to contact his elderly mother and sister for years when he saw them in a Chinese state media video calling him a liar and a shame on the family. Elkun's crime had been to draw attention to the destruction of Uyghur cemeteries in Xinjiang, including his father's tomb.
> 
> "You could tell what they were saying was scripted, but it was still extremely painful to see my elderly mother in a Chinese propaganda film," Elkun said.
> 
> Qelbinur Sedik is worried a similar video of her husband could be released any day, she said. He told her on the phone late last year that Chinese officials had visited him at home in Xinjiang and forced him to recite lines calling her a liar. He said he struggled so much to say the lines correctly that it took four hours to film the short clip.
> 
> BBC
> Qelbinur Sedik recently moved out of refugee accommodation into a small home in the Netherlands
> IMAGE SOURCE,JEREMY MEEK/BBC
> Image caption,
> Qelbinur Sedik recently moved out of refugee accommodation into a small home in the Netherlands
> 
> BBC
> 'Maybe we can co-operate'
> Another common form of harassment described by those who spoke to the BBC was pressure to spy on fellow Uyghurs and organisations that scrutinise China, often in return for contact with family, guarantees of relatives' safety, or access to visas or passports.
> 
> A Uyghur British citizen who did not want to be named said he was harassed repeatedly by intelligence officials during and after a visit to Xinjiang and told to spy on Uyghur groups and on Amnesty International, by joining the charity as a volunteer. When he refused, he received repeated calls from his brother pleading with him to do it, he said.
> 
> Jevlan Shirmemmet, who left Xinjiang to study in Turkey, gave the BBC a recording of a call he received a few weeks after posting on social media about his family's mass arrest in Xinjiang. The caller, who said he was from the Chinese embassy in Ankara, told Shirmemmet to "write down everyone you've been in contact with since you left Xinjiang," and send an email "describing your activities," so that "the mainland might reconsider your family's situation". Another Uyghur in exile in Turkey described a similar call from the same embassy.
> 
> Mustafa Aksu, a 34-year-old activist in the US who said his parents had been harassed in Xinjiang, showed the BBC text and voice messages from an old school friend - now a Chinese police officer - who Aksu said was pressuring him to provide information about Uyghur activists.
> 
> "He says, 'Maybe we can co-operate. I'm sure you must miss your parents.'"
> 
> BBC
> Jevlan Shirmemmet has publicly protested for the release of his mother
> Image caption,
> Jevlan Shirmemmet has publicly protested for the release of his mother
> 
> BBC
> Not everyone feels that they can refuse these requests. "When I say no, they get my younger brother and sister to call and tell me to do it," said a Uyghur student in Turkey, who provided screenshots of the messages from police. "They could send my brother and sister to a concentration camp. What choice do I have?" she said.
> 
> Some have sought to protect themselves by gradually cutting off means of contact. "You can throw away the phone and cancel the number," said Abdulweli Ayup, a Uyghur linguist in Norway, "but you cancel your number and they contact you on Facebook; you delete Facebook and they contact you by email."
> 
> Others have tried beyond hope to stay in touch. A Uyghur exile in the Netherlands said she still sends pictures and emojis to her young son and parents, four years after her number was blocked. "Maybe one day they will see," she said.
> 
> The BBC was not able to independently verify the identities of the people behind the calls and messages provided by various interviewees, but Uyghur rights activists say efforts to coerce Uyghurs to spy for the Chinese government are common.
> 
> "It comes as an offer first - 'You won't have any more visa problems', or 'We can help your family' - that kind of thing," said Rahima Mahmut, a prominent UK-based Uyghur activist. "Later it comes as a threat," she said.
> 
> The UK Foreign Office told the BBC it was "closely monitoring reports that members of the Uyghur diaspora in the UK have been harassed by the Chinese authorities", and that it had "raised our concerns directly with the Chinese embassy in London".
> 
> The Chinese embassy in London told the BBC that the allegations in this story were "completely untrue" and it was "baffling that the BBC so readily believes whatever is said by a few 'East Turkestan' elements outside China" - using another term for the Xinjiang region.
> 
> BBC
> Members of Uighur minority hold placards as they demonstrate on February 22, 2021 near China consulate in Istanbul
> IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY
> Image caption,
> Uyghur protesters in Istanbul last month. Uyghurs in Turkey fear they could be deported to China
> 
> BBC
> Despite the growing public outrage over alleged abuses in Xinjiang, the number of people who have spoken publicly remains vanishingly small compared with the estimated number detained. China has been tremendously successful at silencing people through fear, said Nury Turkel, a commissioner on the US Commission on International Religious Freedom.
> 
> "Millions of people have disappeared into the camps, and yet we have only a handful of Uyghurs speaking out against the detention of their loved ones," Turkel said. "Why? Because they are afraid."
> 
> Some Uyghurs who have criticised China have managed to maintain limited contact with loved ones. Ferkat Jawdat, a prominent activist in the US, speaks to his mother regularly now, after campaigning publicly for her release from detention. She is under house arrest, and her calls are monitored, but she is there on the other end of the line.
> 
> It can be hard to make sense of why some Uyghurs are harassed and others are not; some allowed contact with loved ones and others not. Some have speculated that China is "A/B testing" - trying to work out whether fear or kindness is more efficient. For the thousands who are cut off, it can feel ruthless and arbitrary.
> 
> Jawdat knows that the likelihood of seeing his mother again before she dies is diminishing, so when they speak on the phone they speak carefully. He did tell her once that Chinese state media had put out a video of her saying she was ashamed of him. She said she knew, they had come to film it a few days earlier. "How did I look?" she joked. Then, taking a risk, she told him she was proud of him.
> 
> "It was the unscripted version," he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cost of speaking up against China
> 
> 
> Uyghurs abroad describe a pattern of harassment and intimidation they say is designed to silence them.
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com



We need to start protesting outside these chinese consulates and make the voices of uighurs heard.

Unfortunately, when we raise here same concerns, the forum is overwhelmed by the wumao bots who are will do their best to shut the news down.









How to Spot a State-Funded Chinese Internet Troll


Personal attacks, appeals to communal loyalty, and pleas for patience are some telltale signs.




foreignpolicy.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Beefeatergin

denel said:


> We need to start protesting outside these chinese consulates and make the voices of uighurs heard.
> 
> Unfortunately, when we raise here same concerns, the forum is overwhelmed by the wumao bots who are will do their best to shut the news down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Spot a State-Funded Chinese Internet Troll
> 
> 
> Personal attacks, appeals to communal loyalty, and pleas for patience are some telltale signs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreignpolicy.com


Why don’t you protest against India’s child molestation policy in Kashmir?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1361547326762799105Is it because you are involved in it?


----------



## Bambi

Beefeatergin said:


> Why don’t you protest against India’s child molestation policy in Kashmir?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1361547326762799105Is it because you are involved in it?



BCS it's reported.dm any Chinese media has reported this bot any Chinese media on this news or subject how many months before you reavel this news




Beefeatergin said:


> Why don’t you protest against India’s child molestation policy in Kashmir?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1361547326762799105Is it because you are involved in it?


Is should spam reply to u on this with 50 article of mass rape and incarceration by china but this place will gete banned where you are not be happy 


@waz @krash can I reply with spam as well


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## denel

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Instead of posting fake news, why don't you go secure some oxygen for yourself and your family. You're going to need.


Stick to the topic vs trying to troll off topic as per w..0 protocol.


----------



## Beast

denel said:


> We need to start protesting outside these chinese consulates and make the voices of uighurs heard.
> 
> Unfortunately, when we raise here same concerns, the forum is overwhelmed by the wumao bots who are will do their best to shut the news down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Spot a State-Funded Chinese Internet Troll
> 
> 
> Personal attacks, appeals to communal loyalty, and pleas for patience are some telltale signs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreignpolicy.com


@waz @LeGenD 

Another name calling with wumao and all kind of stereotyping trying to provoke a fight. Shall this forumer be warned?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Bambi

Beast said:


> @waz @LeGenD
> 
> Another name calling with wumao and all kind of stereotyping trying to provoke a fight. Shall this forumer be warned?


Why don't you say that to you frnd who has started this


Beefeatergin said:


> Except that your people’s pedophile Habits are well known around the world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man accused of kissing toddler on lips cited 'cultural differences', court told
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.smh.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So maybe you people should stop molesting children











Urine-soaked eggs a spring taste treat in China city


It's the end of a school day in the eastern Chinese city of Dongyang, and eager parents collect their children after a hectic day of primary school.




www.google.com






@waz @krash this troll is trying to derail the topic


----------



## denel

Beast said:


> @waz @LeGenD
> 
> Another name calling with wumao and all kind of stereotyping trying to provoke a fight. Shall this forumer be warned?


Pal.... typical issue..... why dont your friends stick to the forum rules to stick with.

You want to cry... this pal of your insulted my entire family .... called them murderers etc etc and he got away with it. w..o is what your own people call your brigade --- not us.

So, before you start to cry like a child, you better check his actions first - everyone knows the tactics your entire bot brigade on this forum is up to. So, please give it a rest and go and get some sleep.


----------



## Beast

Bambi said:


> Why don't you say that to you frnd who has started this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Urine-soaked eggs a spring taste treat in China city
> 
> 
> It's the end of a school day in the eastern Chinese city of Dongyang, and eager parents collect their children after a hectic day of primary school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


Does it deflect away of his fault for against forum rules? There is always the report button or moderator to watch the reply.

So you mean someone stab you and you are right to stab back his love one?


----------



## Beast

denel said:


> Pal.... typical issue..... why dont your friends stick to the forum rules to stick with.
> 
> You want to cry... this pal of your insulted my entire family .... called them murderers etc etc and he got away with it. w..o is what your own people call your brigade --- not us.
> 
> So, before you start to cry like a child, you better check his actions first - everyone knows the tactics your entire bot brigade on this forum is up to. So, please give it a rest and go and get some sleep.


Why didn't u report it instead of name calling and provocation?


----------



## denel

GHALIB said:


> this is how china works .


Moderators need to step in.

This entire attack by the CCP bots is typical of their attempt to hijack the narrative. Since their supervisor is back, they are becoming more blazen.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## yuba

This forum we all do it pointing fingers at others then say we all do it Chinese indian pakistani . Rape child abuse is just a weapon to bash each other im getting to end cycle again here . But this place was a good place trolling was done but so was discussing giving kudos and learning something about others . 


Beefeatergin said:


> I don’t call you a murderer I called you a pedophile


Why he a pedophile


----------



## yuba

Denel posted an article about a serious subject and the abuse look at it


Beefeatergin said:


> Man accused of kissing toddler on lips cited 'cultural differences', court told
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.smh.com.au


Your proving his point you do realise that

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## ZeEa5KPul

denel said:


> Stick to the topic vs trying to troll off topic as per w..0 protocol.


I am sticking to the topic. The topic is fake news and I'm calling it out.


----------



## denel

ZeEa5KPul said:


> I am sticking to the topic. The topic is fake news and I'm calling it out.



This is fake news as per your govt BUT NOT BY THE REST OF THE WORLD. So have respect if we are to give you respect.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Beefeatergin

denel said:


> Moderators need to step in.
> 
> This entire attack by the CCP bots is typical of their attempt to hijack the narrative. Since their supervisor is back, they are becoming more blazen.


Facts don’t care about your feelings

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1


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## ZeEa5KPul

denel said:


> This is fake news as per your govt BUT NOT BY THE REST OF THE WORLD. So have respect if we are to give you respect.


Fake news is fake news, it's not a matter of opinion. Adrian Zenz's "reports" have been demonstrated to be fake news and lies time and again.


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## yuba

Nothing much can be done to help in a country as powerful as China. But authorities in western countries must stop the harassment of survivors who get out and get refuge in the west Fair play denel you take all the attacks here i seen them and stick to your guns about things you care about and close to your heart carry on brother

Reactions: Like Like:
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## denel

yuba said:


> Nothing much can be done to help in a country as powerful as China. But authorities in western countries must stop the harassment of survivors who get out and get refuge in the west Fair play denel you take all the attacks here i seen them and stick to your guns about things you care about and close to your heart carry on brother


Bro... God guides us with truth. It is our duty to highlight the plight of those whose voices are quashed.

God voice is supreme ... we fear almightly not mere men or their fake communist party gods.

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## yuba

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Fake news is fake news, it's not a matter of opinion. Adrian Zenz's "reports" have been demonstrated to be fake news and lies time and again.


I dont know who this Adrian Zenz is what been fake with his reporting is he making false claims for money


----------



## denel

Unfortunately, the CCP Bots last derailed and had the post deleted. 

Moderators kindly monitor for this deliberate CCP paid Bots derailment.









The cost of speaking up against China


Uyghurs abroad describe a pattern of harassment and intimidation they say is designed to silence them.



www.bbc.com

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## Char

denel said:


> Unfortunately, the CCP Bots last derailed and had the post deleted.
> 
> Moderators kindly monitor for this deliberate CCP paid Bots derailment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cost of speaking up against China
> 
> 
> Uyghurs abroad describe a pattern of harassment and intimidation they say is designed to silence them.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



Stupid woman, she could have lived a happy life in China, but she now lives in a house with refugees from Africa. But I personally respect her choice.

Frankly speaking, I hope that more Uyghurs will go abroad and have a look, which is more useful than the education of the Communist Party.

The policeman did not threaten her, but hoped that she could turn around and not act as a running dog for the anti-China forces. The Communist Party is still too kind! Why do you care about this kind of garbage?

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## Silverblaze

Is the cost higher than an outright invasion of Iraq, syria, libya, afghanistan?

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## Beidou2020

Troll thread

@waz @The Eagle

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## Globenim

_"Use your brain"_. Oh no thats horrible. How can U.S. regime hired crisis actors ever recover? Massmurdering Lybians, Iraqis and Syrians? Thats controversial. Trying to starve out Iranians Venezuelans and Cubans? Worthy of a raised eyebrow. But telling U.S. state propaganda crisis actors to "think" when they can barely repeat their prewritten scripts? Thats need its own class for a crime agains humanity. 

By the way did this Muslim butchering U.S. regime hired actor change that fake story for the 4th time or why are the NSA bots spamming about this fraud again?

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## denel

Globenim said:


> _"Use your brain"_. Oh no thats horrible. How can U.S. regime hired crisis actors ever recover? Massmurdering Lybians, Iraqis and Syrians? Thats controversial. Trying to starve out Iranians Venezuelans and Cubans? Worthy of a raised eyebrow. But telling U.S. state propaganda crisis actors to "think" when they can barely repeat their prewritten scripts? Thats need its own class for a crime agains humanity.
> 
> By the way did this Muslim butchering U.S. regime hired actor change that fake story for the 4th time or why are the NSA bots spamming about this fraud again?


Please stick to the topic. Do not try to derail. If you have nothing to contribute, please keep quiet.


Beidou2020 said:


> Troll thread
> 
> @waz @The Eagle


Please stick to the topic. If you have issues with any real news and issues of concern, then I suggest you leave this forum. Do not use typical troll bot tactics to deliberately attack and divert from the topic. 

You are free to leave if you cannot discuss with civility.

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## CAPRICORN-88

*BBC again.
Biased Broadcasting Chinese. *

_Try something new_*. *_it is tiring. _

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## aziqbal

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *BBC again.
> Biased Broadcasting Chinese. *
> 
> _Try something new_*. *_it is tiring. _



so China did not arrest and jail HK billionaire for speaking his opinion ? anyone in China says anything against any Chinese policy they are not arrested 

world is blind but what China says is true, do you ever has access to any independent media ?

let me tell you one thing, I live a free and fair society where we can write huge posters on the walls criticising our leaders and we have no fear to do it 

we drag our Prime Minster through the mud and mop the floor with him, and yet no one ever arrested us 

this is called freedom, something you lot never seen

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## FairAndUnbiased

The cost is too low, as evidenced by so many people willing to troll for some token USD or a pat on the head from their masters.

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## CAPRICORN-88

aziqbal said:


> so China did not arrest and jail HK billionaire for speaking his opinion ? anyone in China says anything against any Chinese policy they are not arrested
> 
> world is blind but what China says is true, do you ever has access to any independent media ?
> 
> let me tell you one thing, I live a free and fair society where we can write huge posters on the walls criticising our leaders and we have no fear to do it
> 
> we drag our Prime Minster through the mud and mop the floor with him, and yet no one ever arrested us
> 
> this is called freedom, something you lot never seen


_*Was he arrested because of his opinion?*_

   

_You are so sweet, lovable and naive. 

FYI Benny was arrested and *initially *(using your language) charged then jailed using an British Common Laws. 

Now the Hong Kong Police has collected enough evidences to prove he has breached the National Security Law. 

So you don't subscribe to Law and Order. 

_

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## aziqbal

*House of Commons declares Uighurs are being subjected to genocide in China*

The House of Commons approves a motion calling on the government to fulfil its obligations under international human rights law.



Greg Heffer
Political reporter @GregHeffer
Thursday 22 April 2021 19:04, UK

CHINA
UIGHUR






Image:An image purportedly showing Uighur prisoners bound and blindfolded at a train station in China

https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sha...hurs are being subjected to genocide in China

https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?te...being-subjected-to-genocide-in-china-12283995

https://defence.pk/pdf/whatsapp://s...being-subjected-to-genocide-in-china-12283995


Why you can trust Sky News
MPs have declared that Uighurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in China's Xinjiang region are being subjected to genocide.
The House of Commons on Thursday approved a motion calling on the government to act to fulfil its obligations under international human rights law.

Although the motion passed by MPs is non-binding on the government, it will increase pressure on ministers to take a harder stance over the issue.
In January, the US declared China had committed genocide in its repression of the Uighurs, while national parliaments in Canada and the Netherlands have also made the same declaration.
But Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said, for the UK, the attribution of genocide is a matter for the courts.

Advertisement




Image:Nusrat Ghani., who moved the motion, is among five MPs to have been sanctioned by China
During Thursday's debate in the Commons, former Conservative leader Sir Iain Duncan Smith urged the government to "rethink their position".

"We will not gain any particular friendship by not calling out genocide from the Chinese," he told MPs.
*More from China*

*West faces 'moment of reckoning' in technology threat from China, warns GCHQ head *
*Climate change forcing people out of 'one of the most uninhabitable places on Earth'*
*Earth Day summit was Joe Biden's show - but China unwilling to increase its ambitions*
*Hong Kong: Media tycoon Jimmy Lai jailed over pro-democracy protests*
*COVID-19: China's post-pandemic rebound levels off as GDP growth slows to 0.6%*
*Batches of 50 to 100 Uighur workers are being advertised on the Chinese internet*
"It is simply not a tradable item. The UK government has said endlessly - and I understand this - that only a competent court can declare genocide, that is absolutely the original plan.
"But the problem is that getting to a competent court is impossible.
"At the United Nations it is impossible to get through to the International Court of Justice, it is impossible to get through to the International Criminal Court as China is not a signatory to that and therefore will not obey that."
Sir Iain told MPs that trying to get China to sign up to international pledges on climate change should not be a "balancing point" when considering whether to take action over Beijing's treatment of Uighurs and other minority groups.
"These are all abuses which must be called out," he added.
"Whether or not we need China to cooperate on other matters, we cannot simply say that one matter is worth some sacrifice over the other. It is not."
Please use Chrome browser for a more accessible video player








Play Video - 'Time for UK to call Uighur treatment genocide'

'Time for UK to call Uighur treatment genocide'
In his contribution to the debate, the ex-Tory leader also referenced Sky News' Asia correspondent Tom Cheshire's *recent reporting about the treatment of Uighurs* working in other parts of China.
Conservative former minister Nus Ghani, who moved the motion in the Commons on Thursday, acknowledged some MPs were "reluctant to use the word genocide".
"For many, the word will forever be associated with the horrors of the Nazi concentration camps and I agree with colleagues that we should never diminish the unique meaning or power of this term by applying it incorrectly," she said.
"But there is a misunderstanding that genocide is just one act - mass killing. That is false."
Ms Ghani - who was among *five MPs China recently imposed sanctions on* for "lies and disinformation" about the country - said genocide concerns intent to "destroy in whole or in part" a national, ethnic, racial or religious group.
"All five criteria of genocide are evidenced as taking place in Xinjiang," she added.
Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokeswoman Layla Moran said: "If we end up being proved to be wrong because an independent, UN inspector goes in and is allowed to do their work and it's shown that we all got the wrong end of the stick, then I would welcome that.
"But I would rather be wrong now than be on the wrong side of history later."
Please use Chrome browser for a more accessible video player








Play Video - Uighur workers advertised on Chinese internet

Uighur workers advertised on Chinese internet
Speaking on behalf of the government in the Commons, Foreign Office minister Nigel Adams highlighted how the UK *recently sanctioned Chinese officials* over activities in Xinjiang.
He also pointed to UK export controls on goods from Xinjiang, the government's calls for the UN's high commissioner for human rights to have "urgent and unfettered access" to the region, and joint international action against China.
But Mr Adams repeated that the UK's "longstanding position, like many countries around the world, is that determining whether a situation amounts to genocide or crimes against humanity is an issue for competent national and international courts".
In April 2016, MPs previously voted to say the Yazidis suffered genocide at the hands of Islamic State.
After her motion was approved by MPs, Ms Ghani said: "China's attempt to intimidate parliament into silence has backfired.
"The elected House has spoken and chose to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with our international allies, the Uighur people, and all those who have been sanctioned.
"Our hard won parliamentary democracy will always stand up for what is right and remain free from foreign interference."
The Muslim Council of Britain expressed its hope MPs' approval of the motion would prompt the governmment to "fulfil its obligations under the Geneva Convention of 1948 and be spurred on to take more substantive action against the egregious human rights abuses being committed against the Uighur people".
Ms Ghani's motion stated: _"That this House believes that Uighurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in the Xinjiang Uighur autonomous region are suffering crimes against humanity and genocide; and calls on the government to act to fulfil its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide and all relevant instruments of international law to bring it to an end."_








House of Commons declares Uighurs are being subjected to genocide in China


The House of Commons approves a motion calling on the government to fulfil its obligations under international human rights law.




news.sky.com

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## PeaceGen

to call it 'genocide', when it's clearly something else, namely 'cultural oppression' or something like that, does (A) not mean that you can't put sanctions on such behavior (even although that might require new treaties) and (B) that it does significantly delude what happened in world war 2, and in other places and times as well. The importance of the severity of *those* particular events should not be shoved under the rug by a re-definition of the word 'genocide'.

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## beijingwalker

I got banned by starting new Xinjiang or Uyghur threads instead of merging everything about Xinjiang and Uighur into that megathread, but this OP guy keeps openning new threads about Xinjiang and Uyghurs, provoking and flame baiting Chinese posters intentionally scott free, just because he is a "PDF think tank analyst"?

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## Globenim

Muslim butchering US regime shills telling us Muslim butchering US state propaganda mouthpices are telling us Muslim-hating Indian radicals citing Muslim-hating Christian hate preachers and employees of U.S. regime torture camps for Muslims and the ever so lively U.S. Muslim butchering advocating U.S. military industry and showing us random blurry and edited photos of something completely normal and uncontroversial that has nothing to do with the fake labels and titles and headlines appended to them by the Muslim butchering US regimes mouthpieces and paid shills, "declare" China is doing something bad because there is nothing really to complain about.

And Its another day of of eyerolling over butthurt Americans failing to divide and destroy China. 🙄

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## khansaheeb

PeaceGen said:


> to call it 'genocide', when it's clearly something else, namely 'cultural oppression' or something like that, does (A) not mean that you can't put sanctions on such behavior (even although that might require new treaties) and (B) that it does significantly delude what happened in world war 2, and in other places and times as well. The importance of the severity of *those* particular events should not be shoved under the rug by a re-definition of the word 'genocide'.



No one has accused China of killing Uighurs, so where this blatant lie come from?

Genocide :" the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group
"a campaign of genocide"
"


----------



## aziqbal

Globenim said:


> Muslim butchering US regime shills telling us Muslim butchering US state propaganda mouthpices are telling us Muslim-hating Indian radicals citing Muslim-hating Christian hate preachers and employees of U.S. regime torture camps for Muslims and the ever so lively U.S. Muslim butchering advocating U.S. military industry and showing us random blurry and edited photos of something completely normal and uncontroversial that has nothing to do with the fake labels and titles and headlines appended to them by the Muslim butchering US regimes mouthpieces and paid shills, "declare" China is doing something bad because there is nothing really to complain about.
> 
> And Its another day of of eyerolling over butthurt Americans failing to divide and destroy China. 🙄




BBC stands for British Broadcasting Corporation so not American

America is a country on the other side of the Atlantic

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## Viva_Viet

Wow, expect much more economic sanctions to CN .


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## FairAndUnbiased

Viva_Viet said:


> Wow, expect much more economic sanctions to CN .



Britain $3 trillion economy sanctioning Chinese $18 trillion economy?

You ever hear of smaller economy sanctioning larger one? They should be lucky if we don't sanction them.

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## Viva_Viet

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Britain $3 trillion economy sanctioning Chinese $18 trillion economy?
> 
> You ever hear of smaller economy sanctioning larger one? They should be lucky if we don't sanction them.


UK got support from US and some EU nations on Uighurs genocide issues. 

Expect more 25% tariff on more CN'S products


----------



## ARMalik

aziqbal said:


> *House of Commons declares Uighurs are being subjected to genocide in China*
> 
> The House of Commons approves a motion calling on the government to fulfil its obligations under international human rights law.
> 
> 
> 
> Greg Heffer
> Political reporter @GregHeffer
> Thursday 22 April 2021 19:04, UK
> 
> CHINA
> UIGHUR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image:An image purportedly showing Uighur prisoners bound and blindfolded at a train station in China
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https://news.sky.com/story/house-of-commons-declares-uighurs-are-being-subjected-to-genocide-in-china-12283995&t=House of Commons declares Uighurs are being subjected to genocide in China
> https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=House of Commons declares Uighurs are being subjected to genocide in China&url=https://news.sky.com/story/house-of-commons-declares-uighurs-are-being-subjected-to-genocide-in-china-12283995
> https://defence.pk/pdf/whatsapp://send?text=House of Commons declares Uighurs are being subjected to genocide in China - https://news.sky.com/story/house-of-commons-declares-uighurs-are-being-subjected-to-genocide-in-china-12283995
> 
> Why you can trust Sky News
> MPs have declared that Uighurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in China's Xinjiang region are being subjected to genocide.
> The House of Commons on Thursday approved a motion calling on the government to act to fulfil its obligations under international human rights law.
> 
> Although the motion passed by MPs is non-binding on the government, it will increase pressure on ministers to take a harder stance over the issue.
> In January, the US declared China had committed genocide in its repression of the Uighurs, while national parliaments in Canada and the Netherlands have also made the same declaration.
> But Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said, for the UK, the attribution of genocide is a matter for the courts.
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image:Nusrat Ghani., who moved the motion, is among five MPs to have been sanctioned by China
> During Thursday's debate in the Commons, former Conservative leader Sir Iain Duncan Smith urged the government to "rethink their position".
> 
> "We will not gain any particular friendship by not calling out genocide from the Chinese," he told MPs.
> *More from China*
> 
> *West faces 'moment of reckoning' in technology threat from China, warns GCHQ head *
> *Climate change forcing people out of 'one of the most uninhabitable places on Earth'*
> *Earth Day summit was Joe Biden's show - but China unwilling to increase its ambitions*
> *Hong Kong: Media tycoon Jimmy Lai jailed over pro-democracy protests*
> *COVID-19: China's post-pandemic rebound levels off as GDP growth slows to 0.6%*
> *Batches of 50 to 100 Uighur workers are being advertised on the Chinese internet*
> "It is simply not a tradable item. The UK government has said endlessly - and I understand this - that only a competent court can declare genocide, that is absolutely the original plan.
> "But the problem is that getting to a competent court is impossible.
> "At the United Nations it is impossible to get through to the International Court of Justice, it is impossible to get through to the International Criminal Court as China is not a signatory to that and therefore will not obey that."
> Sir Iain told MPs that trying to get China to sign up to international pledges on climate change should not be a "balancing point" when considering whether to take action over Beijing's treatment of Uighurs and other minority groups.
> "These are all abuses which must be called out," he added.
> "Whether or not we need China to cooperate on other matters, we cannot simply say that one matter is worth some sacrifice over the other. It is not."
> Please use Chrome browser for a more accessible video player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Play Video - 'Time for UK to call Uighur treatment genocide'
> 
> 'Time for UK to call Uighur treatment genocide'
> In his contribution to the debate, the ex-Tory leader also referenced Sky News' Asia correspondent Tom Cheshire's *recent reporting about the treatment of Uighurs* working in other parts of China.
> Conservative former minister Nus Ghani, who moved the motion in the Commons on Thursday, acknowledged some MPs were "reluctant to use the word genocide".
> "For many, the word will forever be associated with the horrors of the Nazi concentration camps and I agree with colleagues that we should never diminish the unique meaning or power of this term by applying it incorrectly," she said.
> "But there is a misunderstanding that genocide is just one act - mass killing. That is false."
> Ms Ghani - who was among *five MPs China recently imposed sanctions on* for "lies and disinformation" about the country - said genocide concerns intent to "destroy in whole or in part" a national, ethnic, racial or religious group.
> "All five criteria of genocide are evidenced as taking place in Xinjiang," she added.
> Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokeswoman Layla Moran said: "If we end up being proved to be wrong because an independent, UN inspector goes in and is allowed to do their work and it's shown that we all got the wrong end of the stick, then I would welcome that.
> "But I would rather be wrong now than be on the wrong side of history later."
> Please use Chrome browser for a more accessible video player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Play Video - Uighur workers advertised on Chinese internet
> 
> Uighur workers advertised on Chinese internet
> Speaking on behalf of the government in the Commons, Foreign Office minister Nigel Adams highlighted how the UK *recently sanctioned Chinese officials* over activities in Xinjiang.
> He also pointed to UK export controls on goods from Xinjiang, the government's calls for the UN's high commissioner for human rights to have "urgent and unfettered access" to the region, and joint international action against China.
> But Mr Adams repeated that the UK's "longstanding position, like many countries around the world, is that determining whether a situation amounts to genocide or crimes against humanity is an issue for competent national and international courts".
> In April 2016, MPs previously voted to say the Yazidis suffered genocide at the hands of Islamic State.
> After her motion was approved by MPs, Ms Ghani said: "China's attempt to intimidate parliament into silence has backfired.
> "The elected House has spoken and chose to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with our international allies, the Uighur people, and all those who have been sanctioned.
> "Our hard won parliamentary democracy will always stand up for what is right and remain free from foreign interference."
> The Muslim Council of Britain expressed its hope MPs' approval of the motion would prompt the governmment to "fulfil its obligations under the Geneva Convention of 1948 and be spurred on to take more substantive action against the egregious human rights abuses being committed against the Uighur people".
> Ms Ghani's motion stated: _"That this House believes that Uighurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in the Xinjiang Uighur autonomous region are suffering crimes against humanity and genocide; and calls on the government to act to fulfil its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide and all relevant instruments of international law to bring it to an end."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> House of Commons declares Uighurs are being subjected to genocide in China
> 
> 
> The House of Commons approves a motion calling on the government to fulfil its obligations under international human rights law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com



The main problem is most of the so called Muslims these days are Hypocrites. *In Islam the worst people are identified as Hypocrites. *The reason I say that British Empire was responsible for the biggest massacre of Millions of Human beings OVER MANY CONTINENTS.

1- Responsible for establishing *Slave trade from Africa *and in the process killing and raping millions of men, women and children.
2- Responsible for establishing *Royal African Company *responsible for conquest and killing of millions of Africans.
3- Responsible for spreading *smallpox epidemic *in North America resulting in decimation of hundreds and thousands of Native American population. Rape and plunder of their women and kids, and destruction of their cities.
4- Responsible to transport of thousands of *convicted criminals *to the colonies who went on a killing spree to wipe thousands of more native Americans.
5- Responsible for the* East India Company, which killed millions of *People in the Sub-continent. Rape and plunder and millions.
6- Responsible for *The Great Famine of Bengal *which killed over *10 million people*.
7- Responsible for the *Opium Wars** between China and Britain resulting of thousands of Chinese deaths *and destruction of great cities, and enslavement of Chinese people.
8- Responsible for *death and destruction of hundreds and thousands of native people of Australia and New Zealand*.
9- And the list goes on and on, and ON

*SO @aziqbal , STOP TALKING FROM YOUR BEHIND AND STOP BEING A HYPOCRITE !* The weight of the truth is so much that the entire Universe can bend based on this, and here you are with your little personal ego trying to bend the truth, and taking sides for people who have caused the most destruction in this Planet.

*We need to be on the side of the truth, and not on the side of the Evils. The importance of House of Commons these days is nothing more than someone relieving themselves on a street. *

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## FairAndUnbiased

Viva_Viet said:


> UK got support from US and some EU nations on Uighurs genocide issues.
> 
> Expect more 25% tariff on more CN'S products



they tariff our products? lol OK we raise prices 25%, what are they gonna do?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viva_Viet

FairAndUnbiased said:


> they tariff our products? lol OK we raise prices 25%, what are they gonna do?


what are they gonna do ? They just sit and watch rich Cnese like Xiaomi, Luxshare, Foxconn etc flee to VN to avoid 25% tariff

More CN workers will lose jobs in Foxconn factories.


----------



## xyxmt

I am overtaken by the love whites are showing for Muslims of China, wish they show half of this love for Kashmiris and Palestinians.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Char

aziqbal said:


> *House of Commons declares Uighurs are being subjected to genocide in China*
> 
> The House of Commons approves a motion calling on the government to fulfil its obligations under international human rights law.
> 
> 
> 
> Greg Heffer
> Political reporter @GregHeffer
> Thursday 22 April 2021 19:04, UK
> 
> CHINA
> UIGHUR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image:An image purportedly showing Uighur prisoners bound and blindfolded at a train station in China
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https://news.sky.com/story/house-of-commons-declares-uighurs-are-being-subjected-to-genocide-in-china-12283995&t=House of Commons declares Uighurs are being subjected to genocide in China
> https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=House of Commons declares Uighurs are being subjected to genocide in China&url=https://news.sky.com/story/house-of-commons-declares-uighurs-are-being-subjected-to-genocide-in-china-12283995
> https://defence.pk/pdf/whatsapp://send?text=House of Commons declares Uighurs are being subjected to genocide in China - https://news.sky.com/story/house-of-commons-declares-uighurs-are-being-subjected-to-genocide-in-china-12283995
> 
> Why you can trust Sky News
> MPs have declared that Uighurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in China's Xinjiang region are being subjected to genocide.
> The House of Commons on Thursday approved a motion calling on the government to act to fulfil its obligations under international human rights law.
> 
> Although the motion passed by MPs is non-binding on the government, it will increase pressure on ministers to take a harder stance over the issue.
> In January, the US declared China had committed genocide in its repression of the Uighurs, while national parliaments in Canada and the Netherlands have also made the same declaration.
> But Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said, for the UK, the attribution of genocide is a matter for the courts.
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image:Nusrat Ghani., who moved the motion, is among five MPs to have been sanctioned by China
> During Thursday's debate in the Commons, former Conservative leader Sir Iain Duncan Smith urged the government to "rethink their position".
> 
> "We will not gain any particular friendship by not calling out genocide from the Chinese," he told MPs.
> *More from China*
> 
> *West faces 'moment of reckoning' in technology threat from China, warns GCHQ head *
> *Climate change forcing people out of 'one of the most uninhabitable places on Earth'*
> *Earth Day summit was Joe Biden's show - but China unwilling to increase its ambitions*
> *Hong Kong: Media tycoon Jimmy Lai jailed over pro-democracy protests*
> *COVID-19: China's post-pandemic rebound levels off as GDP growth slows to 0.6%*
> *Batches of 50 to 100 Uighur workers are being advertised on the Chinese internet*
> "It is simply not a tradable item. The UK government has said endlessly - and I understand this - that only a competent court can declare genocide, that is absolutely the original plan.
> "But the problem is that getting to a competent court is impossible.
> "At the United Nations it is impossible to get through to the International Court of Justice, it is impossible to get through to the International Criminal Court as China is not a signatory to that and therefore will not obey that."
> Sir Iain told MPs that trying to get China to sign up to international pledges on climate change should not be a "balancing point" when considering whether to take action over Beijing's treatment of Uighurs and other minority groups.
> "These are all abuses which must be called out," he added.
> "Whether or not we need China to cooperate on other matters, we cannot simply say that one matter is worth some sacrifice over the other. It is not."
> Please use Chrome browser for a more accessible video player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Play Video - 'Time for UK to call Uighur treatment genocide'
> 
> 'Time for UK to call Uighur treatment genocide'
> In his contribution to the debate, the ex-Tory leader also referenced Sky News' Asia correspondent Tom Cheshire's *recent reporting about the treatment of Uighurs* working in other parts of China.
> Conservative former minister Nus Ghani, who moved the motion in the Commons on Thursday, acknowledged some MPs were "reluctant to use the word genocide".
> "For many, the word will forever be associated with the horrors of the Nazi concentration camps and I agree with colleagues that we should never diminish the unique meaning or power of this term by applying it incorrectly," she said.
> "But there is a misunderstanding that genocide is just one act - mass killing. That is false."
> Ms Ghani - who was among *five MPs China recently imposed sanctions on* for "lies and disinformation" about the country - said genocide concerns intent to "destroy in whole or in part" a national, ethnic, racial or religious group.
> "All five criteria of genocide are evidenced as taking place in Xinjiang," she added.
> Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokeswoman Layla Moran said: "If we end up being proved to be wrong because an independent, UN inspector goes in and is allowed to do their work and it's shown that we all got the wrong end of the stick, then I would welcome that.
> "But I would rather be wrong now than be on the wrong side of history later."
> Please use Chrome browser for a more accessible video player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Play Video - Uighur workers advertised on Chinese internet
> 
> Uighur workers advertised on Chinese internet
> Speaking on behalf of the government in the Commons, Foreign Office minister Nigel Adams highlighted how the UK *recently sanctioned Chinese officials* over activities in Xinjiang.
> He also pointed to UK export controls on goods from Xinjiang, the government's calls for the UN's high commissioner for human rights to have "urgent and unfettered access" to the region, and joint international action against China.
> But Mr Adams repeated that the UK's "longstanding position, like many countries around the world, is that determining whether a situation amounts to genocide or crimes against humanity is an issue for competent national and international courts".
> In April 2016, MPs previously voted to say the Yazidis suffered genocide at the hands of Islamic State.
> After her motion was approved by MPs, Ms Ghani said: "China's attempt to intimidate parliament into silence has backfired.
> "The elected House has spoken and chose to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with our international allies, the Uighur people, and all those who have been sanctioned.
> "Our hard won parliamentary democracy will always stand up for what is right and remain free from foreign interference."
> The Muslim Council of Britain expressed its hope MPs' approval of the motion would prompt the governmment to "fulfil its obligations under the Geneva Convention of 1948 and be spurred on to take more substantive action against the egregious human rights abuses being committed against the Uighur people".
> Ms Ghani's motion stated: _"That this House believes that Uighurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in the Xinjiang Uighur autonomous region are suffering crimes against humanity and genocide; and calls on the government to act to fulfil its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide and all relevant instruments of international law to bring it to an end."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> House of Commons declares Uighurs are being subjected to genocide in China
> 
> 
> The House of Commons approves a motion calling on the government to fulfil its obligations under international human rights law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com



You're out of bed again!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## aziqbal

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Britain $3 trillion economy sanctioning Chinese $18 trillion economy?
> 
> You ever hear of smaller economy sanctioning larger one? They should be lucky if we don't sanction them.



yes and the same tiny Britain conquered 1/4 of the global for over 250 years

the same tiny island wiped out the Qing Dynasties 1,000 ship navy in 24 hours

like now China has built dozens of warships and cant stop Royal Navy Carrier entering Taiwan straits, 5000 sailors + Marines are on the way, only making empty tin cans with no knowledge will not benefit you 

quality is a quantity in itself, quantity means nothing only good for youtube videos

Reactions: Like Like:
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## grey boy 2

beijingwalker said:


> I got banned by starting new Xinjiang or Uyghur threads instead of merging everything about Xinjiang and Uighur into that megathread, but this OP guy keeps openning new threads about Xinjiang and Uyghurs, provoking and flame baiting Chinese posters intentionally scott free, just because he is a "PDF think tank analyst"?


Exactly bro, its time for "IT" to pay for constantly breaking the forum rules
@waz please take appropriate action, thanks


----------



## grey boy 2

beijingwalker said:


> I got banned by starting new Xinjiang or Uyghur threads instead of merging everything about Xinjiang and Uighur into that megathread, *but this OP guy keeps openning new threads about Xinjiang and Uyghurs, provoking and flame baiting Chinese posters intentionally scott free, just because he is a "PDF think tank analyst"?*


Unfortunately you're correct, looks like "ITS" apparently above the forum after all, sad but true


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

ARMalik said:


> The main problem is most of the so called Muslims these days are Hypocrites. *In Islam the worst people are identified as Hypocrites. *The reason I say that British Empire was responsible for the biggest massacre of Millions of Human beings OVER MANY CONTINENTS.
> 
> 1- Responsible for establishing *Slave trade from Africa *and in the process killing and raping millions of men, women and children.
> 2- Responsible for establishing *Royal African Company *responsible for conquest and killing of millions of Africans.
> 3- Responsible for spreading *smallpox epidemic *in North America resulting in decimation of hundreds and thousands of Native American population. Rape and plunder of their women and kids, and destruction of their cities.
> 4- Responsible to transport of thousands of *convicted criminals *to the colonies who went on a killing spree to wipe thousands of more native Americans.
> 5- Responsible for the* East India Company, which killed millions of *People in the Sub-continent. Rape and plunder and millions.
> 6- Responsible for *The Great Famine of Bengal *which killed over *10 million people*.
> 7- Responsible for the *Opium Wars** between China and Britain resulting of thousands of Chinese deaths *and destruction of great cities, and enslavement of Chinese people.
> 8- Responsible for *death and destruction of hundreds and thousands of native people of Australia and New Zealand*.
> 9- And the list goes on and on, and ON
> 
> *SO @aziqbal , STOP TALKING FROM YOUR BEHIND AND STOP BEING A HYPOCRITE !* The weight of the truth is so much that the entire Universe can bend based on this, and here you are with your little personal ego trying to bend the truth, and taking sides for people who have caused the most destruction in this Planet.
> 
> *We need to be on the side of the truth, and not on the side of the Evils. The importance of House of Commons these days is nothing more than someone relieving themselves on a street. *



So that makes what China is doing to her minorities okay? Also China is like the net destroyer of the planets quite like literally from pollution to plain old extraction of resources. So chinese can't complain either.

Whataboutism is a logical fallacy in case you didn't know.


----------



## beijingwalker

Reashot Xigwin said:


> China is like the net destroyer of the planets quite like literally from pollution to plain old extraction of resources.


All those were invented by the west through the first industrial revolution, why you don't accuse them of starting it and being the dominant world polluter and resources extractor for centuries until the recent decades?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

beijingwalker said:


> All those were invented by the west through the first industrial revolution, why you don't accuse them of starting it and being the dominant world polluter and resources extractor for centuries until the recent decades?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Char

Reashot Xigwin said:


>



China is neither the West nor the Soviet Union.


----------



## aziqbal

Char said:


> China is neither the West nor the Soviet Union.



no but it is a communist autocracy

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FairAndUnbiased

aziqbal said:


> no but it is a communist autocracy



Chinese have no duty to argue by your rules nor can you force Chinese to do so.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Reashot Xigwin said:


> So that makes what China is doing to her minorities okay? Also China is like the net destroyer of the planets quite like literally from pollution to plain old extraction of resources. So chinese can't complain either.
> 
> Whataboutism is a logical fallacy in case you didn't know.


_
It is hardly anybody problem if one subscribe to fake news and allow oneself to be made use of.

Now that most of all these unsubstantiated lies are already debunked. _


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Reashot Xigwin said:


> So that makes what China is doing to her minorities okay? Also China is like the net destroyer of the planets quite like literally from pollution to plain old extraction of resources. So chinese can't complain either.
> 
> Whataboutism is a logical fallacy in case you didn't know.



whataboutism is not a fallacy and is actually a completely new word invented after the 1940's to deflect accusations of hypocrisy, which is necessary because the inventors of this word were extreme hypocrites.

in fact, accusations of hypocrisy is allowed in a US court of law. for example, it is legal to question the character of a witness during cross examination to establish credibility. If they are proven to have lied in the past, then the witness can be shown to be a liar and their testimony disregarded as unreputable.


----------



## Char

aziqbal said:


> no but it is a communist autocracy



If you understand the history of Muslims' interaction with China, you should know that you have no reason to criticize China.


----------



## aziqbal

MADE IN HELL *How Chinese caged slaves whose lives are a living nightmare may have made your trainers, TV and phones*

REVEALED

Patrick Knox
13 Jan 2021, 9:33
Updated: 13 Jan 2021, 9:56
FROM your phone, TV and trainers to your clothes and Covid masks, anti-slavery campaigners have warned there's a very good chance part of them was made by political prisoners in China.
Activists have accused the Communist regime of being engaged in the world's biggest forced labour outrage since the Nazis.



20
The products which human rights and anti-slavery campaigners claim are made in part or fully in China's forced labour camps
Look around your home and it's claimed there is a very good chance something will have been made in cruel factories, which are staffed by inmates from nightmarish "gulag" style camps.
It comes as Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab announced the UK would fine any companies importing and selling these "barbaric" products.
He said: "Our aim, put simply, is that no company that profits from forced labour.
"The evidence paints a harrowing picture and showed the practice of barbarism we had hoped lost to another era."

Here we look at the slave products allegedly on sale in the UK and other Western countries which are made in what China chillingly calls "re-education facilities".
*Clothes, underwear and bedsheets?*
Chloe Cranston, from campaign group Anti-Slavery International, told The Sun Online persecuted Muslim Uighurs in China were forced to work to supply the world’s largest fashion companies.
Ms Cranston said: "One fifth of all cotton production can be presumed to be linked to the forced labour.
"You could be inadvertently putting on a product that was made off the backs of forced labour of Uighurs."

Huge numbers from within this minority group, who are from Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR) in the north-west of the country, have allegedly been locked up and hired out by Communist party officials to greedy factory bosses.
In September a leaked Beijing document revealed the scale of its detention camps — as officials say up to eight million people have gone through "training" at state "gulags".
Ms Cranston said: "This is the largest mass detention of a ethnic and religious identity since World War 2."
Campaigners are calling on fashion companies to be more vigilant about their supply chains to avoid unwittingly outsourcing their products to the companies.



20
A still from drone footage which claims to show Uighur prisoners being piled onto trains in China



20
Satellite photo allegedly showing a re-education camp for the detained UighursCredit: AP:Associated Press



20
Drone footage that emerged last year is thought to show scores of Uighur being loaded onto trains



20
Watchtowers on a high-security facility near what is believed to be a re-education camp where mostly Muslim ethnic minority Uighurs are detained, on the outskirts of Hotan, Xinjiang Credit: AFP or licensors*Trainers?*
It has also been alleged that some sports brands were outsourcing manufacturing of trainers to factories staffed by the detained Uighurs.
One manufacturer allegedly using slaves them was the Qingdao Taekwang Shoes Co, which is located in the city of Laixi.
Here they have allegedly been churning out Nike’s Shox or Airmax.
Nike announced it was reviewing its supply chains after the allegations first emerged in March.
The Washington Post visited the factory and said it was like a prison, with barbed wire, watchtowers and cameras.
An Uighur woman told them: "We can walk around, but we can't go back [to Xinjiang on our own.”



20
The fences along the side of the Qingdao Taekwang Shoes Co. factoryCredit: Getty Images - Getty



20
There are watchtowers with cameras pointed in all directions and high barbed wire fences atop the wallsCredit: Getty Images - Getty



20
A major product is trainers which are then shipped to the westCredit: Alamy*Smart phones, laptops and TVs?*
Uighur prisoners have also allegedly been forced into making computer screens, cameras, and fingerprint scanners for a supplier to foreign tech companies.
It is claimed they work in the OFilm factory, in Nanchang, which boasts customers including Apple.
However, it was impossible to track specific products to specific companies.
Apple has said it has launched a investigation after the allegations, but had found no evidence of forced labour used in its products.
One woman, who worked in the factory for several weeks alongside the Uighurs, told The Associated Press: "They don’t let them come out.
"The government chose them to come to OFilm, they didn’t choose it."
OFilm has not commented on the allegations.
The US Department of Commerce had early in July designated OFilm Group among a list of eleven Chinese companies that it accuses of taking part in human rights violations against the Uighur people.




Xinjiang is home to around 25million people



20
A local stops for a smoke near the entrance to an OFILM factory in NanchangCredit: AP:Associated Press*Covid masks?*
Only four companies in Xinjiang produced medical grade protective equipment before the pandemic, according to China’s National Medical Products Administration.
But as of June 30, that number had suddenly increased to 51.
At least 17 of those companies were found to be participating in the Uighurs’ "labour transfer programme", according to the New York Times.
Here reportedly 25 per cent of its workforce are Uighur Muslims.




Workers at an electronics factory in in Aketao County, Xinjiang, work as part of the 'poverty alleviation' programme - or so the Chinese Communist party claims*Christmas decorations and cards?*
According to United States Government’s 2020 List of Goods Produced by Child Labor or Forced Labor, Christmas decorations are believed to be major slave product.
Greetings cards are another product, which human rights and anti-slavery campaigners say are made by forced labour.
Last Christmas, Florence Widdicombe, from Tooting, south London, was stunned when she opened the new box of charity cards and found the scrawled message inside from what appeared to be a slave worker begging for help.
Tesco, where the cards were bought, suspended use of the factory Zhejiang Yunguang Printing in Shanghai.
The factory has denied using slave labour and claimed the allegations were politically motivated.
China’s Foreign Ministry has also rebuffed the claims.
But a search on the website of global trade data firm Panjiva Inc by The Sun Online found the company made 25 shipments to the UK of greetings cards and kids colouring books in 2019.



20
Six-year-old Florence Widdicombe, from Tooting, south London, was shocked after discovering a message in her Christmas cardCredit: PAress Association



20
A translation of the note in a Tesco Christmas card from a desperate prisoner in Shanghai - his handwriting changed to protect his identityCredit: Tom Stockill - The Sunday Times
*Calls for secretive China to let the world in*
HUMAN rights group Amnesty International has called on China to allow independent experts to assess the situation in Xinjiang if it really does have "nothing to hide".
Nicholas Bequelin, the group's Regional Director for Asia and the Pacific, tells Sun Online: “We have documented an intensifying government campaign of mass internment, intrusive surveillance, political indoctrination and forced cultural assimilation against Uyghurs, Kazakhs and other predominantly Muslim ethnic groups living in Xinjiang.
“Despite such evidence, China has repeatedly denied that it is carrying out human rights violations in Xinjiang, or even that the camps exist, And it is almost impossible to independently verify their claims given the extreme constraints to reporting in the region.
“But if China has nothing to hide, it should allow independent UN experts to assess the situation and allow Uyghurs and members of other ethnic minorities to freely communicate with their relatives overseas.
"Until now, this is something the Chinese authorities have refused to do.”
One camp survivor, Kairat Samarkan, told Amnesty he was forced to stand in a fixed position for 12 hours when first detained.
He was not allowed to talk to the nearly 6,000 others held in the same camp, and had to chant “Long live Xi Jinping” before meals.
He said his treatment led him to attempt suicide just before his release.
According to an online victims' database, dozens of Uighurs have died while in custody or soon after their release.
*Hair products? *
In September, US Customs and Border Protection said it would seize any shipments of human hair from the Lop County Hair Product Industrial Park in southern Xinjiang.
That followed two earlier WROs on companies registered within the same area, including the June seizure of 13 tons of human hair worth £600,000 from the firm.
In a statement to The Sun Online, the US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) said: "Forced labor is modern slavery.
"This holiday season, CBP is urging consumers to think twice before they buy cheap goods online and in stores.
"The apparel, hair extensions, laptops, jewelry, cosmetics, and other products that you buy for friends and family may be made under conditions of modern slavery."



20
U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers at the Port of New York seized hair extensions made of human hairCredit: U.S. Customs and Border Protection



20
The products were part of shipment of almost 13 tons of hair products worth over £600,000 dollarsCredit: U.S. Customs and Border Protection
After being contacted by The Sun Online, Apple referred to its statement it made in July where it said it had launched a detailed investigation of OFilm Tech after allegations of forced labour surfaced.
This involved dispatching independent third-party investigators to the factory and then conducting surprise audits in June and July, including verifying employee documentation and interviewing with workers in local languages, it said.
Following allegations of forced labour being used in Apple's supply chain, its spokesman said: "We have found no evidence of any forced labor on Apple production lines and we plan to continue monitoring."








Nike told The Sun Online it was concerned about reports of forced labor in, and connected to, the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR).
A spokesperson said: “Related to the Taekwang Group, when reports of the situation in XUAR began to surface in 2019 Taekwang stopped hiring new employees from the XUAR to its Qingdao facility and an independent third-party audit confirmed there are no longer any employees from XUAR at the facility.
"Our ongoing diligence has not found evidence of employment of Uyghurs, or other ethnic minorities from the XUAR, elsewhere in our supply chain in China.
"Based on evolving information, we strengthened our audit protocols to identify emerging risks related to potential labor transfer programs."



20
Satellite images show a network of suspected detention camps built by the Chinese government since 2017Credit: Google Earth



20
An estimated 260 sites have been constructed across the Xinjiang province


----------



## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> MADE IN HELL *How Chinese caged slaves whose lives are a living nightmare may have made your trainers, TV and phones*
> 
> REVEALED
> 
> Patrick Knox
> 13 Jan 2021, 9:33
> Updated: 13 Jan 2021, 9:56
> FROM your phone, TV and trainers to your clothes and Covid masks, anti-slavery campaigners have warned there's a very good chance part of them was made by political prisoners in China.
> Activists have accused the Communist regime of being engaged in the world's biggest forced labour outrage since the Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> The products which human rights and anti-slavery campaigners claim are made in part or fully in China's forced labour camps
> Look around your home and it's claimed there is a very good chance something will have been made in cruel factories, which are staffed by inmates from nightmarish "gulag" style camps.
> It comes as Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab announced the UK would fine any companies importing and selling these "barbaric" products.
> He said: "Our aim, put simply, is that no company that profits from forced labour.
> "The evidence paints a harrowing picture and showed the practice of barbarism we had hoped lost to another era."
> 
> Here we look at the slave products allegedly on sale in the UK and other Western countries which are made in what China chillingly calls "re-education facilities".
> *Clothes, underwear and bedsheets?*
> Chloe Cranston, from campaign group Anti-Slavery International, told The Sun Online persecuted Muslim Uighurs in China were forced to work to supply the world’s largest fashion companies.
> Ms Cranston said: "One fifth of all cotton production can be presumed to be linked to the forced labour.
> "You could be inadvertently putting on a product that was made off the backs of forced labour of Uighurs."
> 
> Huge numbers from within this minority group, who are from Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR) in the north-west of the country, have allegedly been locked up and hired out by Communist party officials to greedy factory bosses.
> In September a leaked Beijing document revealed the scale of its detention camps — as officials say up to eight million people have gone through "training" at state "gulags".
> Ms Cranston said: "This is the largest mass detention of a ethnic and religious identity since World War 2."
> Campaigners are calling on fashion companies to be more vigilant about their supply chains to avoid unwittingly outsourcing their products to the companies.
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> A still from drone footage which claims to show Uighur prisoners being piled onto trains in China
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> Satellite photo allegedly showing a re-education camp for the detained UighursCredit: AP:Associated Press
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> Drone footage that emerged last year is thought to show scores of Uighur being loaded onto trains
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> Watchtowers on a high-security facility near what is believed to be a re-education camp where mostly Muslim ethnic minority Uighurs are detained, on the outskirts of Hotan, Xinjiang Credit: AFP or licensors*Trainers?*
> It has also been alleged that some sports brands were outsourcing manufacturing of trainers to factories staffed by the detained Uighurs.
> One manufacturer allegedly using slaves them was the Qingdao Taekwang Shoes Co, which is located in the city of Laixi.
> Here they have allegedly been churning out Nike’s Shox or Airmax.
> Nike announced it was reviewing its supply chains after the allegations first emerged in March.
> The Washington Post visited the factory and said it was like a prison, with barbed wire, watchtowers and cameras.
> An Uighur woman told them: "We can walk around, but we can't go back [to Xinjiang on our own.”
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> The fences along the side of the Qingdao Taekwang Shoes Co. factoryCredit: Getty Images - Getty
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> There are watchtowers with cameras pointed in all directions and high barbed wire fences atop the wallsCredit: Getty Images - Getty
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> A major product is trainers which are then shipped to the westCredit: Alamy*Smart phones, laptops and TVs?*
> Uighur prisoners have also allegedly been forced into making computer screens, cameras, and fingerprint scanners for a supplier to foreign tech companies.
> It is claimed they work in the OFilm factory, in Nanchang, which boasts customers including Apple.
> However, it was impossible to track specific products to specific companies.
> Apple has said it has launched a investigation after the allegations, but had found no evidence of forced labour used in its products.
> One woman, who worked in the factory for several weeks alongside the Uighurs, told The Associated Press: "They don’t let them come out.
> "The government chose them to come to OFilm, they didn’t choose it."
> OFilm has not commented on the allegations.
> The US Department of Commerce had early in July designated OFilm Group among a list of eleven Chinese companies that it accuses of taking part in human rights violations against the Uighur people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xinjiang is home to around 25million people
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> A local stops for a smoke near the entrance to an OFILM factory in NanchangCredit: AP:Associated Press*Covid masks?*
> Only four companies in Xinjiang produced medical grade protective equipment before the pandemic, according to China’s National Medical Products Administration.
> But as of June 30, that number had suddenly increased to 51.
> At least 17 of those companies were found to be participating in the Uighurs’ "labour transfer programme", according to the New York Times.
> Here reportedly 25 per cent of its workforce are Uighur Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Workers at an electronics factory in in Aketao County, Xinjiang, work as part of the 'poverty alleviation' programme - or so the Chinese Communist party claims*Christmas decorations and cards?*
> According to United States Government’s 2020 List of Goods Produced by Child Labor or Forced Labor, Christmas decorations are believed to be major slave product.
> Greetings cards are another product, which human rights and anti-slavery campaigners say are made by forced labour.
> Last Christmas, Florence Widdicombe, from Tooting, south London, was stunned when she opened the new box of charity cards and found the scrawled message inside from what appeared to be a slave worker begging for help.
> Tesco, where the cards were bought, suspended use of the factory Zhejiang Yunguang Printing in Shanghai.
> The factory has denied using slave labour and claimed the allegations were politically motivated.
> China’s Foreign Ministry has also rebuffed the claims.
> But a search on the website of global trade data firm Panjiva Inc by The Sun Online found the company made 25 shipments to the UK of greetings cards and kids colouring books in 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> Six-year-old Florence Widdicombe, from Tooting, south London, was shocked after discovering a message in her Christmas cardCredit: PAress Association
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> A translation of the note in a Tesco Christmas card from a desperate prisoner in Shanghai - his handwriting changed to protect his identityCredit: Tom Stockill - The Sunday Times
> *Calls for secretive China to let the world in*
> HUMAN rights group Amnesty International has called on China to allow independent experts to assess the situation in Xinjiang if it really does have "nothing to hide".
> Nicholas Bequelin, the group's Regional Director for Asia and the Pacific, tells Sun Online: “We have documented an intensifying government campaign of mass internment, intrusive surveillance, political indoctrination and forced cultural assimilation against Uyghurs, Kazakhs and other predominantly Muslim ethnic groups living in Xinjiang.
> “Despite such evidence, China has repeatedly denied that it is carrying out human rights violations in Xinjiang, or even that the camps exist, And it is almost impossible to independently verify their claims given the extreme constraints to reporting in the region.
> “But if China has nothing to hide, it should allow independent UN experts to assess the situation and allow Uyghurs and members of other ethnic minorities to freely communicate with their relatives overseas.
> "Until now, this is something the Chinese authorities have refused to do.”
> One camp survivor, Kairat Samarkan, told Amnesty he was forced to stand in a fixed position for 12 hours when first detained.
> He was not allowed to talk to the nearly 6,000 others held in the same camp, and had to chant “Long live Xi Jinping” before meals.
> He said his treatment led him to attempt suicide just before his release.
> According to an online victims' database, dozens of Uighurs have died while in custody or soon after their release.
> *Hair products? *
> In September, US Customs and Border Protection said it would seize any shipments of human hair from the Lop County Hair Product Industrial Park in southern Xinjiang.
> That followed two earlier WROs on companies registered within the same area, including the June seizure of 13 tons of human hair worth £600,000 from the firm.
> In a statement to The Sun Online, the US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) said: "Forced labor is modern slavery.
> "This holiday season, CBP is urging consumers to think twice before they buy cheap goods online and in stores.
> "The apparel, hair extensions, laptops, jewelry, cosmetics, and other products that you buy for friends and family may be made under conditions of modern slavery."
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers at the Port of New York seized hair extensions made of human hairCredit: U.S. Customs and Border Protection
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> The products were part of shipment of almost 13 tons of hair products worth over £600,000 dollarsCredit: U.S. Customs and Border Protection
> After being contacted by The Sun Online, Apple referred to its statement it made in July where it said it had launched a detailed investigation of OFilm Tech after allegations of forced labour surfaced.
> This involved dispatching independent third-party investigators to the factory and then conducting surprise audits in June and July, including verifying employee documentation and interviewing with workers in local languages, it said.
> Following allegations of forced labour being used in Apple's supply chain, its spokesman said: "We have found no evidence of any forced labor on Apple production lines and we plan to continue monitoring."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nike told The Sun Online it was concerned about reports of forced labor in, and connected to, the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR).
> A spokesperson said: “Related to the Taekwang Group, when reports of the situation in XUAR began to surface in 2019 Taekwang stopped hiring new employees from the XUAR to its Qingdao facility and an independent third-party audit confirmed there are no longer any employees from XUAR at the facility.
> "Our ongoing diligence has not found evidence of employment of Uyghurs, or other ethnic minorities from the XUAR, elsewhere in our supply chain in China.
> "Based on evolving information, we strengthened our audit protocols to identify emerging risks related to potential labor transfer programs."
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> Satellite images show a network of suspected detention camps built by the Chinese government since 2017Credit: Google Earth
> 
> 
> 
> 20
> An estimated 260 sites have been constructed across the Xinjiang province


Worthless propaganda, I can post literally thousands of Uighur personal accounts to show the opposite and how good a life they have now. Wanna bet?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> Worthless propaganda, I can post literally thousands of Uighur personal accounts to show the opposite and how good a life they have now. Wanna bet?



from Chinese Twitter account or do you have independent media and independent judiciary system to prove it 

because UN Humans rights commissioner has been refused entry 17 times to Xinjging the same UN of which China is a permanent member


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

FairAndUnbiased said:


> whataboutism is not a fallacy and is actually a completely new word invented after the 1940's to deflect accusations of hypocrisy, which is necessary because the inventors of this word were extreme hypocrites.
> 
> in fact, accusations of hypocrisy is allowed in a US court of law. for example, it is legal to question the character of a witness during cross examination to establish credibility. If they are proven to have lied in the past, then the witness can be shown to be a liar and their testimony disregarded as unreputable.



*Whataboutism*, also known as *whataboutery*, is a variant of the _tu quoque_ logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.[1][2][3]

According to Russian writer, chess grandmaster and political activist Garry Kasparov, "whataboutism" is a word that was coined to describe the frequent use of a rhetorical diversion by Soviet apologists and dictators, who would counter charges of their oppression, "massacres, gulags, and forced deportations" by invoking American slavery, racism, lynchings, etc.[4] Whataboutism has been used by other politicians and countries as well.

Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.[5][6][7]

When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the Soviet response would often use "and what about _you_?" style by instancing of an event or situation in the Western world.[8][9][10] The idea can be found in Russian language: while it utilizes phrase "Sam takoi" for direct tu quoque-like "you too"; it also has "Sam _ne lutche_" ("_not better_") phrase.






Whataboutism - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Reashot Xigwin said:


> *Whataboutism*, also known as *whataboutery*, is a variant of the _tu quoque_ logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.[1][2][3]
> 
> According to Russian writer, chess grandmaster and political activist Garry Kasparov, "whataboutism" is a word that was coined to describe the frequent use of a rhetorical diversion by Soviet apologists and dictators, who would counter charges of their oppression, "massacres, gulags, and forced deportations" by invoking American slavery, racism, lynchings, etc.[4] Whataboutism has been used by other politicians and countries as well.
> 
> Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.[5][6][7]
> 
> When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the Soviet response would often use "and what about _you_?" style by instancing of an event or situation in the Western world.[8][9][10] The idea can be found in Russian language: while it utilizes phrase "Sam takoi" for direct tu quoque-like "you too"; it also has "Sam _ne lutche_" ("_not better_") phrase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whataboutism - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Doesn't matter. It's legal in US law.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Char said:


> China is neither the West nor the Soviet Union.



Ever heard of the phrase distinction without a difference? Or whatever the chinese equivalent of that


FairAndUnbiased said:


> Doesn't matter. It's legal in US law.



The US is not at court now is it?


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## FairAndUnbiased

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Ever heard of the phrase distinction without a difference? Or whatever the chinese equivalent of that
> 
> 
> The US is not at court now is it?



but since you're making accusations based on a US invented fallacy, then it stands to reason that I have the right to point out that this invented fallacy is legal in the US.


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## Reashot Xigwin

FairAndUnbiased said:


> but since you're making accusations based on a US invented fallacy, then it stands to reason that I have the right to point out that this invented fallacy is legal in the US.



Every fallacy is invented, chump.The world doesn't stop inventing new terms after 1940 FYI. Address the issues instead of pivoting to another if you don't want to be accused of whataboutism. 

I don't think u understand what you just posted. For example If china commits double homicide & the witness is faulty that still doesn't change the fact china is guilty.


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## Char

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Ever heard of the phrase distinction without a difference? Or whatever the chinese equivalent of that
> 
> 
> The US is not at court now is it?



What about you?

Not knowing the difference of China can only show your ignorance.


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## beijingwalker

Young people life in today's Xinjiang, no different from everywhere else in China


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## beijingwalker

*DILRABA DILMURAT ONE OF THE HIGHEST PAID ACTRESS IN CHINA AND HAS 73.3 MILLION FOLLOWERS IN WEIBO





**73.3 MILLION FOLLOWERS IN WEIBO* 
Crazy, that's over 6 times of the whole Uyghur population.


----------



## Nan Yang

*A Conversation With a "Chinese Concentration Camp" Survivor*


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## retaxis

America puts millions of blacks into jail who are at risk of being killed and rape is okay. Millions more living in ghettos where there is drug violence and killings by police and gangs is still ok. Then CIA introduce crack into black suburbs to keep them down is still fine. But locking up terrorists to reform them is genocide. America is still performing genocide on blacks and keeping them locked up/poor out of positions of power. The old saying is always accuse others of what you are actually doing and that is genocide by the white anglo powers.

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## Dariush the Great

Once again.. good job China. Kill all those terrorists on CIA payroll. No mercy... massacre them if they pose a threat to national security. Apparently flying thousands of miles dropping nuclear weapons on civilians of another nation on purpose is less of a crime than a nation wishing to rule they want to. POS Americans.. may they face more division and become more of a laughing stock than they already are.

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## retaxis

Dariush the Great said:


> Once again.. good job China. Kill all those terrorists on CIA payroll. No mercy... massacre them if they pose a threat to national security. Apparently flying thousands of miles dropping nuclear weapons on civilians of another nation on purpose is less of a crime than a nation wishing to rule they want to. POS Americans.


Terrorists were driving through open markets throwing grenades out the window killing dozens and the occurrences were increasing which led to this anti-terrorism reform act. Give them education and skill and maybe they will appreciate life more since they can earn more money and develop more relationships.

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## Dariush the Great

retaxis said:


> Terrorists were driving through open markets throwing grenades out the window killing dozens and the occurrences were increasing which led to this anti-terrorism reform act. Give them education and skill and maybe they will appreciate life more since they can earn more money and develop more relationships.


The more dangerous threat facing China are not those weak terrorists getting manhandled by China but the propaganda from US and their slaves which might influence Chinese officials. Hope Chinese officials stand firm and eradicate terrorism and kill anyone wishing to harm China.

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## retaxis

Dariush the Great said:


> The more dangerous threat facing China are not those weak terrorists getting manhandled by China but the propaganda from US and their slaves which might influence Chinese officials. Hope Chinese officials stand firm and eradicate terrorism and kill anyone wishing to harm China.


You are right the biggest enemy is always the traitors that reside. They are promoted as human rights activists but they are really just traitors. They use to work for the Japanese overseeing massacres of chinese civilians and now they are working for the Americans trying to bring down the Chinese government and ensure that Chinese starve while America prospers. The same could possibly be said about Iran as well.

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## War Thunder

A rather neutral and factual checked assessment of what's actually going on. Not your everyday CCP sponsored crap you keep seeing from the CCP mouth pieces here, nor the BBC/CNN propaganda bullshit.

P.S: It might not be for mentally imprisoned folk.
And I hope it can explain to our Chinese members, why you can't comprehend when people like me question the stupidity in what you share on the subject and those who blindly support you on it. You have to carry the ability to think freely to be able to carry a neutral perceptive. From the looks of it, that ability to think "freely" does not happen to exist any more in your conscious part of the brain. Good job CCP.

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## -blitzkrieg-

These folks get an off on weekends..they go back home .. they party hard and Monday they are back at the school/camp.lol..


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## Song Hong

It is as if no one can travel to Xinjiang and and no one take a look several tenth meters away from the so call camps. You dont even need a permit to visit Xinjiang.

Just go there and see or interview the locals.

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## War Thunder

Song Hong said:


> It is as if no one can travel to Xinjiang and and no one take a look several tenth meters away from the so call camps. You dont even need a permit to visit Xinjiang.
> 
> Just go there and see or interview the locals.



Don't troll a thread if you are not willing to go through what is being shared. Your comment is already well covered in the video itself.

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## vi-va

Tens of millions tourist traveled in Xinjiang province last year.

Everyone can travel in Xinjiang, including Turkish, Yankees, Indians. 

You think tens of millions tourists are all blind, or stupid?

LMAO. Such stupid mentality.

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## Invicta

War Thunder said:


> A rather neutral and factual checked assessment of what's actually going on. Not your everyday CCP sponsored crap you keep seeing from the CCP mouth pieces here, nor the BBC/CNN propaganda bullshit.
> 
> P.S: It might not be for mentally imprisoned folk.
> And I hope it can explain to our Chinese members, why you can't comprehend when people like me question the stupidity in what you share on the subject and those who blindly support you on it. You have to carry the ability to think freely to be able to carry a neutral perceptive. From the looks of it, that ability to think "freely" does not happen to exist any more in your conscious part of the brain. Good job CCP.


Pretty grim, I have posted some articles from Western sources that have been shot down as propaganda. Which is fine that is their point of view. One thing that has been very common is response you get from these guys. Typical of what you will shortly find on this thread as well. Rather than look at the wrong that is happening in front of them they will quote you articles of historical wrongs done by your country. 

Two wrongs don't make one right. Freedom of thought, expression is being curbed and they are oblivious to it.

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## CAPRICORN-88




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## War Thunder

Invicta said:


> Pretty grim, I have posted some articles from Western sources that have been shot down as propaganda. Which is fine that is their point of view. One thing that has been very common is response you get from these guys. Typical of what you will shortly find on this thread as well. Rather than look at the wrong that is happening in front of them they will quote you articles of historical wrongs done by your country.
> 
> Two wrongs don't make one right. Freedom of thought, expression is being curbed and they are oblivious to it.




What do you expect from people who have been educated with a "controlled education system" and grown up to only be able to think through a cognitive process that is nothing but shackled and unable to understand an opinion or systems that are unlike what they have been forced to accept as "normal".

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## Song Hong

The brainwashed people are those who believe that LGBT are discriminated and promiscuity is not immoral.

Plenty of them.



War Thunder said:


> What do you expect from people who have been educated with a "controlled education system" and grown up to only be able to think through a cognitive process that is nothing but shackled and unable to understand an opinion or systems that are unlike what they have been forced to accept as "normal".

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## War Thunder

vi-va said:


> Tens of millions tourist traveled in Xinjiang province last year.
> 
> Everyone can travel in Xinjiang, including Turkish, Yankees, Indians.
> 
> You think tens of millions tourists are all blind, or stupid?
> 
> LMAO. Such stupid mentality.




I laugh at your inability to process logic or facts even when they are provided to you in the simplest of ways.
Instead of understanding the facts and why those with an ability to think amongst us won't fall for your bullshit, your mental capacity only makes you jump to an escapist zone and refer to what your government would have told you if you had questioned them on the subject.

Try to force your mind to think independently from what your media and government has been force feeding you since school. Perhaps you will be able to process some of the facts mentioned in the video and actually come back with a logical and factual response.


Song Hong said:


> The brainwashed people are those who believe that LGBT are discriminated and promiscuity is not immoral.
> 
> Plenty of them.





You are just another example of what I have explained to the guy above.
You simply lack the ability to process facts and your response is always an escapist's response.
Now let's make your next response come after you have actually watched the video and processed the logic being presented in there?

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## CAPRICORN-88

....

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## Invicta

War Thunder said:


> What do you expect from people who have been educated with a "controlled education system" and grown up to only be able to think through a cognitive process that is nothing but shackled and unable to understand an opinion or systems that are unlike what they have been forced to accept as "normal".



What is worrying is the trend on this forum of people standing up for them for the sake of being "Iron Brother". They don't contemplate that if they get away with this once they will do it again, and might be us in the firing line.



War Thunder said:


> I laugh at your inability to process logic or facts even when they are provided to you in the simplest of ways.
> Instead of understanding the facts and why those with an ability to think amongst us won't fall for your bullshit, your mental capacity only makes you jump to an escapist zone and refer to what your government would have told you if you had questioned them on the subject.
> 
> Try to force your mind to think independently from what your media and government has been force feeding you since school. Perhaps you will be able to process some of the facts mentioned in the video and actually come back with a logical and factual response.
> 
> You are just another example of what I have explained to the guy above.
> You simply lack the ability to process facts and your response is always an escapist's response.


This is a typical response which I have come to expect of these guys, I would not waste my time on arguing with them they are beyond reason.

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## War Thunder

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _It is welcoming sight that most female Uyghurs are experiencing a kind of freedom that was missing in the past.
> 
> They don't donned the black Islamic hijab and is now not shy to express their true beauty, thanks to the new Chinese law that protects their rights.
> As a result they are exhibiting more and more confidence nowadays.
> To me this is a good, a sign of increasing human right in China nit just in the Eastern part but the Western region as well. _




Another troll comment, completely irrelevant to the subject matter or the facts presented in OP.
How much do you CCP mouth pieces get paid for this?

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## CAPRICORN-88

War Thunder said:


> Another troll comment, completely irrelevant to the subject matter or the facts presented in OP.
> How much do you CCP mouth pieces get paid for this?



_You are very offensive and a rude person. _

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## War Thunder

Invicta said:


> What is worrying is the trend on this forum of people standing up for them for the sake of being "Iron Brother". They don't contemplate that if they get away with this once they will do it again, and might be us in the firing line.




Not their fault most of the time. Some of them lack a brain to process these kind of things in a logical way. These are the same folk who will follow some maulana or party leader blindly and never use their mind to do research on what they follow or who they support.
Other times, they are just a victim of following the media and the government on what they say about China. Or they simply do not care as long as they are benefiting from the existing state of affairs and their own lives are not affected by the opinion they carry.


CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _You are very offensive and a rude person. _




When you drop in to troll my thread without going through the data shared in OP and without having to say anything on what's being presented there which is also factually checked. What do you expect from me? Praise your for dropping in?

P.S: Only dumb folk believe making woman go around half naked or less covered makes them free. Instead of letting them chose for what they want for themselves. 
But when people come from an authoritative regime and the mindset it propagates. You can't expect them to know what having a "CHOICE" and freedom of life and faith actually means.

But then again, that's a different subject and irrelevant to the topic at hand.

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## CAPRICORN-88

War Thunder said:


> Not their fault most of the time. Some of them lack a brain to process these kind of things in a logical way. These are the same folk who will follow some maulana or party leader blindly and never use their mind to do research on what they follow or who they support.
> Other times, they are just a victim of following the media and the government on what they say about China. Or they simply do not care as long as they are benefiting from the existing state of affairs and their own lives are not affected by the opinion they carry.
> 
> 
> 
> When you drop in to troll my thread without going through the data shared in OP and without having to say anything on what's being presented there which is also factually checked. What do you expect from me? Praise your for dropping in?
> 
> P.S: Only dumb folk believe making woman go around half naked or less covered makes them free. Instead of letting them chose for what they want for themselves.
> But when people come from an authoritative regime and the mindset it propagates. You can't expect them to know what having a "CHOICE" and freedom of life and faith actually means.
> 
> But then again, that's a different subject and irrelevant to the topic at hand.



_*You are basically trolling in here and trying to make everyone angry. 

BTW every members has the right to debunk your posting as you alleged paid propagandist but I did it civil with some earthly Uyghur beauties speaking human language from Xinjiang. *_

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## War Thunder

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _*You are basically trolling in here and trying to make everyone angry.
> 
> BTW every members has the right to debunk your posting as you alleged paid propaganda but I did it civil with some earthly Uyghur beauties speaking human language from Xinjiang. *_




damn, some times I even wonder if some of you are even human or just programmed bots?
Did CCP even leave a difference 🤔


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## CAPRICORN-88

War Thunder said:


> damn, some times I even wonder if some of you are even human or just programmed bots?
> Did CCP even leave a difference 🤔



_You really have a disgusting attitude. 
And you still considered yourself a human. 

  

Well. The CPC is doing a great job in China and even US CDC director Anthony Fauci suggested Modi India to learn from China. 
In fact there are more. 
How about mannerism? _

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## 313ghazi

A very good summary. Basically the Chinese now have laws where anyone who opposes governments opinions, or appears as Muslim is being re-educated. They're being forced to accept Chinese culture and reduce their own.

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## vi-va

War Thunder said:


> I laugh at your inability to process logic or facts even when they are provided to you in the simplest of ways.
> Instead of understanding the facts and why those with an ability to think amongst us won't fall for your bullshit, your mental capacity only makes you jump to an escapist zone and refer to what your government would have told you if you had questioned them on the subject.
> 
> Try to force your mind to think independently from what your media and government has been force feeding you since school. Perhaps you will be able to process some of the facts mentioned in the video and actually come back with a logical and factual response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are just another example of what I have explained to the guy above.
> You simply lack the ability to process facts and your response is always an escapist's response.
> Now let's make your next response come after you have actually watched the video and processed the logic being presented in there?


I have Chinese Muslim roommate several years back, I have Uighur friends. I tried to make one Uighur girl be my girlfriend.
I ate Uighur food down the street regularly, talk with them, see them in the eyes. *FREELY*
People like me travel to Xinjiang, see what happened there with our own eyes. *FREELY*

Now you tell me I am stupid, because what I saw is not true, what I hear is fake, and what my Uighur friends told me is fake.

You either lost your mind, or simply brainwashed, easily fooled by western propaganda.

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## aziqbal

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _You really have a disgusting attitude.
> And you still considered yourself a human.
> 
> 
> 
> Well. The CPC is doing a great job in China and even US CDC director Anthony Fauci suggested Modi India to learn from China.
> In fact there are more.
> How about mannerism? _





Song Hong said:


> It is as if no one can travel to Xinjiang and and no one take a look several tenth meters away from the so call camps. You dont even need a permit to visit Xinjiang.
> 
> Just go there and see or interview the locals.




Fake video and fake source 

The source is not from independent media 

The source is a YouTube video from a Chinese fanboy 

Why then China does not allow the UN Human rights commissioner to come to visit Xinjiang 

Same UN which China is a permanent member 

Chinese trolls are repeatedly posting these videos without these Videos being independently verified 

Mods please take note here they are repeatedly doing this


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## CAPRICORN-88

_When one is in denial, one is in denial. No point trying to convince him and very soon he will arrived at the angry stage. 

I predicted India present condition, approx 9 months ago but they were interpreted as an anti-India rant by a China fanboy as one dude puts it. 
Am I happy about it? 
Certainly not as it may spread to the entire neighbourhood. 

But the worst thing that happened is when he thinks all the rest of the readers and viewers are just like him, filled with silly anti-China notions and brainless. 

Why are they so scare of the truth from another angle? 

I just heard over TV today that Pfizer claimed that its vaccine is 95% effective against the new India variant. 

USA has been actively promoting this to India. 

Then how did US Infectious Disease Expert Rajendra Kapila who received all his 2 shots of Pfizer vaccines died after he contracted the new India Virus variant in India on May 4, 2021.

Stop believing all this Western MSM nonsensical reports, it may proved fatal and now Dr Kapila is a victim of US disinformation. _

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## aziqbal

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _When one is in denial, one is in denial. No point trying to convince him and very soon he will be in an angry at stage.
> 
> I predicted India present condition, approx 9 months ago but they were interpreted as an anti-India rant by a China fanboy as one dude puts it.
> Am I happy about it?
> Certainly not as it may spread to the entire neighbourhood.
> 
> But the worst thing that happened is when he thinks all the rest of the readers and viewers are just like him, filled with silly anti-China notions and brainless.
> 
> Why are they so scare of the truth from another angle?
> 
> I just heard over TV today that Pfizer claimed that its vaccine is 95% effective against the new India variant.
> 
> USA has been actively promoting this to India.
> 
> Then how did US Infectious Disease Expert Rajendra Kapila who received all his 2 shots of Pfizer vaccines died after he contracted the new India Virus variant in India on May 4, 2021.
> 
> Stop believing all this Western MSM nonsensical reports, it may proved fatal and now Dr Kapila is a victim of US disinformation.  _



Where is the proof we need proof 

Millions of foreign visitors came to Xinjiang 
Where is the proof ? 

If millions can come why UN human rights commission cannot ?


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

aziqbal said:


> Where is the proof we need proof
> 
> Millions of foreign visitors came to Xinjiang
> Where is the proof ?
> 
> If millions can come why UN human rights commission cannot ?





_Didn't I warned you that I don't debate with dishonorable trolls. 

BTW before more lies emerged China is elected to UN HRC. 

And *the reply to your silly childish allegation has already been given and debunked without any response from you previously. *

To repeat the same thing shows that you are as usual just trolling. 
That is annoying. 
You should be banned. _

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## aziqbal

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _Didn't I warned you that I don't debate with dishonorable trolls.
> 
> BTW before more lies emerged China is elected to UN HRC.
> 
> And *the reply to your silly childish allegation has already been given and debunked without any response from you previously. *
> 
> To repeat the same thing shows that you are as usual just trolling.
> That is annoying.
> You should be banned. _



Stick to the topic and don’t cry 

So I am correct you don’t have any link or proof? 

Show me where millions of foreign visitors came to Xinjiang 

You made a claim now prove it


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

313ghazi said:


> A very good summary. Basically the Chinese now have laws where anyone who opposes governments opinions, or appears as Muslim is being re-educated. They're being forced to accept Chinese culture and reduce their own.



_The law in China applied for everyone and all religions not just Islam alone.

Example:
No one is allowed to propagate or force his/her religion to an adolescents until he reached a mature age of 18. 
After that he can decide what religion he/she wishes to follow. 

There is nothing cultural in here as alleged. 

I think it is a great law and it promotes harmony and security for everyone in China. Some may not agreed but IMO the law is fair. _

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## CAPRICORN-88

aziqbal said:


> Stick to the topic and don’t cry
> 
> So I am correct you don’t have any link or proof?
> 
> Show me where millions of foreign visitors came to Xinjiang
> 
> You made a claim now prove it



_This troll continue to bark incessantly and at the wrong tree if anyone bother to read all my posting in here. 

*And once again I don't debate with trolls. *_

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## CAPRICORN-88

_I like to watch positive video like this.
Like all humans, she is just wishing for better life for her family and herself. 
She is also entitled to have dreams. 
Many Uyghurs are not brave enough to follow their dreams like this brave girl. _

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## 313ghazi

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _The law in China applied for everyone and all religions not just Islam alone.
> 
> Example:
> No one is allowed to propagate or force his/her religion to an adolescents until he reached a mature age of 18.
> After that he can decide what religion he/she wishes to follow.
> 
> There is nothing cultural in here as alleged.
> 
> I think it is a great law and it promotes harmony and security for everyone in China. Some may not agreed but IMO the law is fair. _



The law is the same for everyone, unfortunately some of your laws are discriminatory. 

Take the law you have stated for example - I could understand if it was limited to the term force, but it also includes the term propegate. This means that people of any religion cannot teach their children about their religion. That is an intrusion on their human rights, it restricts them from freely practising their faith. It is a religious duty of a Muslim parent to teach their child their faith. 

In your home you went to bed when your parents told you to - not the state. You ate what your parents cooked, not what the state mandated you eat. In your free time you learnt whatever your parents told you to - not the state.If you did not go to bed on time, if you did do your piano lessons, if you refused to eat your vegetables, your parents had the right to discipline you. They also had the right to make you take piano lessons, or make you eat vegetables, or make you go to sleep at 9pm. 

Muslim parents consider it a religious duty to raise their children to understand their religion and to carry out their religious practices, dress in accordance to religious regulations, pray, prepare meals in accordance to religious value. These religious values form a part of muslim culture. By denying them the right to propgate their religion to their children;

1. You limit their freedom to practice their faith,
2. You discriminate against their ability to raise their children in accordance to their wishes
3. You limit their freedom to pass on their culture and their values to their children. 

These do not apply to people who do not have a religion. A non religious chinese can make their child practice piano, but a religious chinese cannot make their child read the Quran. 

A non religious Chinese can make their child eat cabbage, but a religious chinese cannot tell their child to only eat meat that has been slaughtered in the halal method.

A non religious chinese can make his child get up at 5am for exercise, but a religious chinese cannot make his child get up at 5am for prayers. 

As you can see this is clear discrimination. 

The law would not be a problem if it was restricted to the term force. If a child was being forced to do something against their will and was being harmed by the parent by not doing it, you could argue the law is in place to protect the child, but currently the law limits the child from their own religion and culture.


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## Beast

@waz @LeGenD 

I think this thread need to be moderate.


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## F-22Raptor

Beast said:


> @waz @LeGenD
> 
> I think this thread need to be moderate.




No comment on Starship SN15s successful soft landing?  I didn’t think so

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## CAPRICORN-88

_So who can stop any parents from educating their own children at home? There is no violation of any human right in the law in this case? 
No one has been charged in a court in China in violation of this law. 

What about the parent or followers of a derivative religion that preach extremism at home? 
Nobody will know unless someone including the adolescent himself reported this to the Police then they are in trouble. 
Kids have human rights too. 

But to propagate religion to any adolescents in any religious place of worship is definitely against the law and it is working well there in Xinjiang and elsewhere. 

As I say, some of you may disagree but a law is a law and it is not confined to one religion. Most of all it is a law in China. No one in China is unhappy about it. 

No suicidal terrorism is reported in Xinjiang for many years now. _

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## Vapnope

War Thunder said:


> A rather neutral and factual checked assessment of what's actually going on. Not your everyday CCP sponsored crap you keep seeing from the CCP mouth pieces here, nor the BBC/CNN propaganda bullshit.
> 
> P.S: It might not be for mentally imprisoned folk.
> And I hope it can explain to our Chinese members, why you can't comprehend when people like me question the stupidity in what you share on the subject and those who blindly support you on it. You have to carry the ability to think freely to be able to carry a neutral perceptive. From the looks of it, that ability to think "freely" does not happen to exist any more in your conscious part of the brain. Good job CCP.


Makes lot of sense. Thank you for posting

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## aziqbal

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _I like to watch positive video like this.
> Like all humans, she is just wishing for better life for her family and herself.
> She is also entitled to have dreams.
> Many Uyghurs are not brave enough to follow their dreams like this brave girl. _



Video China posting pro China news ? Really ? 

This is not a source of information 

Rather it’s bias propaganda

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## denel

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _When one is in denial, one is in denial. No point trying to convince him and very soon he will arrived at the angry stage.
> 
> I predicted India present condition, approx 9 months ago but they were interpreted as an anti-India rant by a China fanboy as one dude puts it.
> Am I happy about it?
> Certainly not as it may spread to the entire neighbourhood.
> 
> But the worst thing that happened is when he thinks all the rest of the readers and viewers are just like him, filled with silly anti-China notions and brainless.
> 
> Why are they so scare of the truth from another angle?
> 
> I just heard over TV today that Pfizer claimed that its vaccine is 95% effective against the new India variant.
> 
> USA has been actively promoting this to India.
> 
> Then how did US Infectious Disease Expert Rajendra Kapila who received all his 2 shots of Pfizer vaccines died after he contracted the new India Virus variant in India on May 4, 2021.
> 
> Stop believing all this Western MSM nonsensical reports, it may proved fatal and now Dr Kapila is a victim of US disinformation. _


Please stop your deliberate nonsense of pfizer. Stick to the point.

If you are that open, let human right watch or Amnesty internatonal or even an independent committee using South African Human rights - Ms Pillai or Hon Judge Goldstone who have done critical work without bias.

Bottom line you wont - instead you post bs from paid bloggers and use it to santise your fake narrative.

If you are that amazing at human rights - bring in our Truth and Reconciliation Commission - we will see what the reality is.

Until then, go back to the dark room and read more east is red; red is great; tomato is red, tomato sauce is east.


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## CAPRICORN-88

More trolls jumping onboard.


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## denel

War Thunder said:


> Not their fault most of the time. Some of them lack a brain to process these kind of things in a logical way. These are the same folk who will follow some maulana or party leader blindly and never use their mind to do research on what they follow or who they support.
> Other times, they are just a victim of following the media and the government on what they say about China. Or they simply do not care as long as they are benefiting from the existing state of affairs and their own lives are not affected by the opinion they carry.
> 
> 
> 
> When you drop in to troll my thread without going through the data shared in OP and without having to say anything on what's being presented there which is also factually checked. What do you expect from me? Praise your for dropping in?
> 
> P.S: Only dumb folk believe making woman go around half naked or less covered makes them free. Instead of letting them chose for what they want for themselves.
> But when people come from an authoritative regime and the mindset it propagates. You can't expect them to know what having a "CHOICE" and freedom of life and faith actually means.
> 
> But then again, that's a different subject and irrelevant to the topic at hand.


You must remember, these are deliberate tactics to spread fake narratives and divert any discussion.








“Break Their Lineage, Break Their Roots”


The 53-page report, “‘Break Their Lineage, Break Their Roots’: China’s Crimes against Humanity Targeting Uyghurs and Other Turkic Muslims,” authored with assistance from Stanford Law School’s Human Rights & Conflict Resolution Clinic, draws on newly available information from Chinese government...




www.hrw.org


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## denel

“Break Their Lineage, Break Their Roots”


The 53-page report, “‘Break Their Lineage, Break Their Roots’: China’s Crimes against Humanity Targeting Uyghurs and Other Turkic Muslims,” authored with assistance from Stanford Law School’s Human Rights & Conflict Resolution Clinic, draws on newly available information from Chinese government...




www.hrw.org





Allow independent observers, Ms Pillai/judge Goldstone, Amnesty International

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## denel

China: Baseless Imprisonments Surge in Xinjiang


(New York) – The Chinese government has increased its groundless prosecutions with long prison sentences for Uyghurs and other Muslims in recent years in China’s Xinjiang region.




www.hrw.org






*China: Baseless Imprisonments Surge in Xinjiang*
Harsh, Unjust Sentences for Uyghurs, Other Muslims




Click to expand Image

A perimeter fence around what is officially known as a” vocational skills education center” in Dabancheng in China's Xinjiang region, September 2018. © 2018 Reuters/Thomas Peter
(New York) – The Chinese government has increased its groundless prosecutions with long prison sentences for Uyghurs and other Muslims in recent years in China’s Xinjiang region, Human Rights Watch said today. Since the Chinese government escalated its repressive “Strike Hard Campaign against Violent Terrorism” in late 2016, the region’s formal criminal justice system has convicted and sentenced more than 250,000 people.

While few verdicts and other official documents are publicly available due to Xinjiang authorities’ tight control of information, a Human Rights Watch analysis of nearly 60 of these cases suggests that many people have been convicted and imprisoned without committing a genuine offense. These formal prosecutions are distinct from those arbitrarily detained in unlawful “political education” facilities.

“Although the Chinese government’s use of ‘political education’ camps has led to international outrage, the detention and imprisonment of Xinjiang’s Muslims by the formal justice system has attracted far less attention,” said Maya Wang, senior China researcher. “Despite the veneer of legality, many of those in Xinjiang’s prisons are ordinary people who were convicted for going about their lives and practicing their religion.”

*Prosecutions Increase Sharply, Many for Long Sentences*

The Chinese government’s official statistics showed a dramatic increase in the number of people sentenced in Xinjiang in 2017, followed by another increase in 2018, as reported by the nongovernmental organization, Network of Chinese Human Rights Defenders, and the_ New York Times _in 2019.



Click to expand Image

Source: China Law Yearbooks, Xinjiang Regional Yearbooks and Xinjiang Court Annual Work Reports
According to Chinese government statistics, Xinjiang courts sentenced 99,326 people in 2017 and 133,198 in 2018. The authorities have not released sentencing statistics for 2019.

The Xinjiang Victims Database – a nongovernmental organization that has documented the cases of over 8,000 detainees based on family accounts and official documents – estimates that the number of people sentenced in 2019 may be comparable to those in the previous two years. Of the 178 cases whose year of sentencing is known, the number of people sentenced in 2019 is roughly the average of those of 2017 and 2018.



Click to expand Image

Source: Xinjiang Victims Database
A comparable official sentencing figure could mean that tens of thousands more people were sentenced in Xinjiang in 2019.

Another change in 2017 was the dramatic increase in the number of those given lengthy sentences, also according to government statistics. Prior to 2017, sentences of over five years in prison were about 10.8 percent of the total number of people sentenced. In 2017, they make up 87 percent of the sentences.



Click to expand Image

Source: Xinjiang Regional Yearbooks
Similarly, the dataset from the Xinjiang Victims Database shows that among the 312 individuals whose prison terms are known, people are being imprisoned for, on average, 12.5 years during the Strike Hard Campaign. That figure excludes six people who have been given life sentences.

*Arbitrary Imprisonments Under the Strike Hard Campaign*

One case that vividly illustrates the arbitrary nature of Xinjiang’s mass imprisonment of Muslims is that of Jin Dehuai, a Hui Muslim sentenced to life imprisonment for “splittism” in Changji Prefecture in September 2018. In a verdict obtained by Human Rights Watch, the Changji Intermediate People’s Court convicted Jin, 47, for “repeatedly and illegally” organizing trips abroad to study the Quran, inviting religious figures from countries including Bangladesh and Kyrgyzstan to Xinjiang, and holding religious meetings in the region between 2006 and 2014. The authorities accused Jin of encouraging others to take part in Tablighi Jamaat, a kind of transnational movement of Islamic proselytization.

There is no publicly available evidence that Jin’s activities constituted a recognizable criminal offense. Yet the court determined that his activities had “promoted the infiltration of foreign religious forces in China,” “strengthened the idea that Islam will unite the world, ultimately to establish a caliphate,” and thus “endangered the country.”

Jin was sentenced to seven years for “gathering crowds to disturb social order” in 2015 for these same behaviors, but the procuratorate challenged the verdict in 2017 and asked for a heavier sentence, resulting in a retrial that resulted in a life sentence. Prior to this sentence, in 2009, Jin had been imprisoned for 18 months for teaching the Quran to over two dozen Hui and Uyghur children.

Aside from Jin Huaide’s case, the Xinjiang Victims Database found six others, some provided by families:

Nebijan Ghoja Ehmet, an ethnic Uyghur, was convicted of “inciting ethnic hatred and discrimination” for telling others “what is haram and halal” (prohibited and permissible in Islam) and sentenced to 10 years in prison;
Huang Shike, Hui, was convicted of “illegal use of the internet” for explaining the Quran to others in two WeChat groups and sentenced to two years in prison;
Asqar Azatbek, Kazakh, was convicted of “spying and fraud” for showing a visiting Kazakh official around hydraulic projects near the Kazakh-Chinese border and sentenced to 20 years in prison;
Nie Shigang, Hui, was originally convicted of “assisting in terrorist activities” and “money laundering” for helping over 100 Uyghurs transfer money to their relatives in Egypt – funds authorities said were used for terrorist activities – and sentenced to 15 years in prison. Upon appeal, however, the court ruled that Nie was not guilty of “assisting in terrorist activities” and reduced his sentence to five years for “money laundering;”
Nurlan Pioner, Kazakh, was convicted of “disturbing public order and extremism” for educating over 70 people in religion, and sentenced to 17 years in prison;
Serikzhan Adilhan, Kazakh, was convicted of running an “illegal business” for selling cigarettes worth 174,600 RMB (US$27,000) without a license and sentenced to 3 and a half years. The verdict of Serikzhan Adilhan is the only one of the seven available verdicts that is posted on China’s official database of court verdicts.
Other available information concerning 51 cases, including the indictments, incarceration notices, leaked official documents, and official communications with families indicate that most of the Uyghur and Kazakh individuals in these cases have been imprisoned for vague and overbroad offenses such as “inciting ethnic hatred,” “picking quarrels and provoking trouble,” and for watching or listening to “extremist” content.

One such document, an indictment detaining the case of four Uyghur family members, illustrates the Chinese government’s perilously over-expansive use of the terms “terrorism” and “extremism.” The four were indicted in January 2019 for travelling to Turkey in 2013 and 2014 to visit another family member. Chinese authorities claimed that the man in Turkey, a university lecturer named Erkin Emet, belongs to a terrorist organization, and that the money (US$2,500) and gifts his family gave him – including a dutar, a traditional musical instrument, a gold ring, and basic necessities – were evidence of them “assisting terrorism.” These four, along with another sibling of Emet, were given sentences of 11 to 23 years, according to Emet, who in 2019 learned about their conviction.

These verdicts and the additional case information suggest that the courts in Xinjiang have convicted and imprisoned many people who had not committed a genuine offense.

*No Due Process Under Strike Hard Campaign*

Xinjiang’s Strike Hard Campaign targets the “ideological virus” of Turkic Muslims, religious and political ideas that do not conform to those prescribed by the state, such as pan-Islamism. It involves mass surveillance and political indoctrination of the entire population. The authorities evaluate people’s thoughts, behavior, and relationships based on bogus and broad criteria – such as whether they have families abroad – to determine their course of “correction.” Those whose transgressions the authorities consider light are held in political education camps or under other forms of movement restrictions, including house arrest. Past government practice suggests that more serious cases are processed in the formal criminal justice system.

The Strike Hard Campaign is typical of Chinese authorities’ periodic and politicized “anti-crime” initiatives. The authorities pressure the police, procuratorate, and courts to cooperate to deliver swift and harsh punishment, leading to summary trials, the processing of large number of cases in a short time, and a suspension of basic procedural rights under Chinese law.

Similar dynamics appear to characterize Xinjiang’s Strike Hard Campaign. News reports describe crushing work pressure on Xinjiang officials, including those in the criminal justice system. One describes police officers, procurators, and judges not having time to eat or sleep, and holidays being suspended. Human Rights Watch in 2018 interviewed people held in Xinjiang’s formal detention centers between 2016 and 2018 who said that they and fellow detainees were tortured to confess crimes and deprived of access to lawyers. Radio Free Asia has reported that people are being sentenced with perfunctory and closed trials that families cannot attend.

International pressure may have contributed to the Chinese government releasing some detainees from “political education” camps. The government, which has denied mass arbitrary detentions in Xinjiang, has asserted that it governs the region according to the “rule of law.” But many people have been forcibly disappeared, detained or imprisoned with their families not informed of their whereabouts. Those released are subjected to continued surveillance, control of their movements, and some to forced labor.

“International pressure on the Chinese government should be escalated for an independent investigation in Xinjiang,” Wang said. “That’s the best hope for the release of all those unjustly detained or imprisoned.”

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## Jackdaws

denel said:


> China: Baseless Imprisonments Surge in Xinjiang
> 
> 
> (New York) – The Chinese government has increased its groundless prosecutions with long prison sentences for Uyghurs and other Muslims in recent years in China’s Xinjiang region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hrw.org


Need a puke emoji for news coming out of China.

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## kankan326

Religion has nothing to do with genocide. Europeans forced or seduced Africans, some Asian countries to convert into their religions. Is that genocide? 

Arabs forced Uygur ancestors to convert into Islam. Is that genocide?


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## denel

*China’s treatment of Uighurs is ‘crimes against humanity’: Report*
Human Rights Watch is the latest to document policies of mass detention, torture and cultural persecution in Xinjiang.






A perimeter fence is constructed around what is officially known as a vocational skills education centre in Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region, China [File: Thomas Peter/Reuters
19 Apr 2021
China is committing crimes against humanity in its treatment of the Uighur ethnic minority and other Turkic Muslims in the northwest region of Xinjiang, with Beijing responsible for “policies of mass detention, torture, and cultural persecution, among other offenses”, Human Rights Watch has said in a new report.
The 53-page report, titled Break Their Lineage, Break Their Roots documented a “range of abuses” that also include enforced disappearances, mass surveillance, separation of families, forced returns to China, forced labour, sexual violence and violations of reproductive rights.
KEEP READING
What’s happening with China’s Uighurs? | Start HereChinese hackers used Facebook to spy on Uighurs abroad, firm saysChina commits ‘genocide’ against Uighurs: State Department report
The report, which was authored with the help of Stanford Law School’s Human Rights and Conflict Resolution Clinic noted that while Beijing’s oppression of Turkic Muslims is “not a new phenomenon”, it has reached “unprecedented levels”.
As many as a million people have been detained in 300 to 400 facilities, including “political education” camps, pretrial detention centres and prisons, the report said. Meanwhile, children whose parents have been detained are sometimes placed in state institutions.



Play Video
Since 2017, when Beijing intensified its crackdown, arrests in Xinjiang accounted for 21 percent of all arrests in China, despite the region accounting for just 1.5 percent of the population, the report said. Arrests in the region increased by 306 percent in the last five years as compared to the first five years.
Since 2017, the Chinese government has also “used various pretexts to damage or destroy” two-thirds of mosques in the region.
“To be clear, crimes against humanity are serious specific offenses, knowingly committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack against the civilian population,” Sophie Richardson, China director at Human Rights Watch, said at a press conference on Monday. “And these are among the greatest human rights abuses under international law.”



Play Video
Richardson noted that while their research had not yet reached the high bar under international law to prove “genocidal intent” by the Chinese government, “nothing in this report precludes that finding”.
The United States government, the parliaments of Canada, Belgium and the Netherlands, and other rights groups have already labelled Beijing’s actions genocide. Several countries, including the US, European Union, United Kingdom and Canada, have imposed targeted sanctions.
Beijing has long denied allegations of abuses, dismissing them as “slanderous attacks” saying the detention camps in question are “vocational training centres” meant to stem “extremism”.
*‘Coordinated international action’*
Speaking at the press conference, Kenneth Roth, Executive Director of HRW, called for “coordinated international action” and urged the United Nations Human Rights Council to create a commission of inquiry with authority to investigate allegations of crimes against humanity, identify officials responsible for abuses and provide a road map for holding them accountable.

The report, which drew on information from government documents, human rights groups, the media, and scholars, also provided recommendations for governments to put pressure on Beijing for the alleged abuses, including “pursuing individual criminal and state responsibility for these crimes, targeted sanctions, and actions under other UN mechanisms, such as the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD)”.



Play Video
Roth also called on companies to cut ties with Xinjiang, saying “it is not possible at this stage for companies to import from Xinjiang without risking complicity in the pervasive use of forced labor”.
Monday’s report said that the “level of coercion” involved in government programmes that place Turkic Muslims in jobs in Xinjiang and China “appear to have dramatically increased” in recent years.
The report added that “evidence indicates that detainees have been sent to perform forced labor after they were released from Xinjiang’s political education camps … Satellite images also show the recent emergence of new factories, connected to or near the camps, where inmates allegedly provide low-cost or unpaid labor.”

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## kankan326

Yes. A prison picture tells us everything. Very convincing indeed.

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## 313ghazi

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _So who can stop any parents from educating their own children at home? There is no violation of any human right in the law in this case?
> No one has been charged in a court in China in violation of this law.
> 
> What about the parent or followers of a derivative religion that preach extremism at home?
> Nobody will know unless someone including the adolescent himself reported this to the Police then they are in trouble.
> Kids have human rights too.
> 
> But to propagate religion to any adolescents in any religious place of worship is definitely against the law and it is working well there in Xinjiang and elsewhere.
> 
> As I say, some of you may disagree but a law is a law and it is not confined to one religion. Most of all it is a law in China. No one in China is unhappy about it.
> 
> No suicidal terrorism is reported in Xinjiang for many years now. _



Congregational prayer is a religious duty upon Muslims. To prevent Muslim youth from praying in congregations or from recieving religious education from scholarly sources in religious institutes like Mosques is a violation of their human rights. Many parts of Muslim culture are linked to Mosques, for example funerals prayers take place in mosques. Are young Chinese Muslims not allowed to attend funerals if they take place in Mosques? This is clearly an infringement on the religious and cultural rights of people who are Muslim in China.

Also the law also considers anyone an extremist if they oppose the law. How can anyone object if legally they could be considered an extremist for doing so?

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## denel

313ghazi said:


> Congregational prayer is a religious duty upon Muslims. To prevent Muslim youth from praying in congregations or from recieving religious education from scholarly sources in religious institutes like Mosques is a violation of their human rights. Many parts of Muslim culture are linked to Mosques, for example funerals prayers take place in mosques. Are young Chinese Muslims not allowed to attend funerals if they take place in Mosques? This is clearly an infringement on the religious and cultural rights of people who are Muslim in China.
> 
> Also the law also considers anyone an extremist if they oppose the law. How can anyone object if legally they could be considered an extremist for doing so?
> 
> View attachment 741162


ghazi: it is the way the law is interpreted.. In China you are guilty; the burden is on you to prove you are not.

This legal term is highly subject to abuse by the authorities and being used right now.

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## 313ghazi

kankan326 said:


> Religion has nothing to do with genocide. Europeans forced or seduced Africans, some Asian countries to convert into their religions. Is that genocide?
> 
> Arabs forced Uygur ancestors to convert into Islam. Is that genocide?



Genocide is the the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. If you're not killing people but making them change religion, then it's not genocide - it's forced conversion. 

Now has religion spread by forced conversion? Certainly not. In some cases there was an aspect of it, but generally religion has not spread by force. If that was the case then Muslims who ruled India for over 1000 years would have wiped out hinduism, yet Hindus are by far the largest religious group in India. 

Not a single Muslim army landed in Indonesia, yet Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country. 

Which Arab army occupied China?

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## Invicta

denel said:


> China: Baseless Imprisonments Surge in Xinjiang
> 
> 
> (New York) – The Chinese government has increased its groundless prosecutions with long prison sentences for Uyghurs and other Muslims in recent years in China’s Xinjiang region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hrw.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *China: Baseless Imprisonments Surge in Xinjiang*
> Harsh, Unjust Sentences for Uyghurs, Other Muslims
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand Image
> A perimeter fence around what is officially known as a” vocational skills education center” in Dabancheng in China's Xinjiang region, September 2018. © 2018 Reuters/Thomas Peter
> (New York) – The Chinese government has increased its groundless prosecutions with long prison sentences for Uyghurs and other Muslims in recent years in China’s Xinjiang region, Human Rights Watch said today. Since the Chinese government escalated its repressive “Strike Hard Campaign against Violent Terrorism” in late 2016, the region’s formal criminal justice system has convicted and sentenced more than 250,000 people.
> 
> While few verdicts and other official documents are publicly available due to Xinjiang authorities’ tight control of information, a Human Rights Watch analysis of nearly 60 of these cases suggests that many people have been convicted and imprisoned without committing a genuine offense. These formal prosecutions are distinct from those arbitrarily detained in unlawful “political education” facilities.
> 
> “Although the Chinese government’s use of ‘political education’ camps has led to international outrage, the detention and imprisonment of Xinjiang’s Muslims by the formal justice system has attracted far less attention,” said Maya Wang, senior China researcher. “Despite the veneer of legality, many of those in Xinjiang’s prisons are ordinary people who were convicted for going about their lives and practicing their religion.”
> 
> *Prosecutions Increase Sharply, Many for Long Sentences*
> 
> The Chinese government’s official statistics showed a dramatic increase in the number of people sentenced in Xinjiang in 2017, followed by another increase in 2018, as reported by the nongovernmental organization, Network of Chinese Human Rights Defenders, and the_ New York Times _in 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand Image
> Source: China Law Yearbooks, Xinjiang Regional Yearbooks and Xinjiang Court Annual Work Reports
> According to Chinese government statistics, Xinjiang courts sentenced 99,326 people in 2017 and 133,198 in 2018. The authorities have not released sentencing statistics for 2019.
> 
> The Xinjiang Victims Database – a nongovernmental organization that has documented the cases of over 8,000 detainees based on family accounts and official documents – estimates that the number of people sentenced in 2019 may be comparable to those in the previous two years. Of the 178 cases whose year of sentencing is known, the number of people sentenced in 2019 is roughly the average of those of 2017 and 2018.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand Image
> Source: Xinjiang Victims Database
> A comparable official sentencing figure could mean that tens of thousands more people were sentenced in Xinjiang in 2019.
> 
> Another change in 2017 was the dramatic increase in the number of those given lengthy sentences, also according to government statistics. Prior to 2017, sentences of over five years in prison were about 10.8 percent of the total number of people sentenced. In 2017, they make up 87 percent of the sentences.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand Image
> Source: Xinjiang Regional Yearbooks
> Similarly, the dataset from the Xinjiang Victims Database shows that among the 312 individuals whose prison terms are known, people are being imprisoned for, on average, 12.5 years during the Strike Hard Campaign. That figure excludes six people who have been given life sentences.
> 
> *Arbitrary Imprisonments Under the Strike Hard Campaign*
> 
> One case that vividly illustrates the arbitrary nature of Xinjiang’s mass imprisonment of Muslims is that of Jin Dehuai, a Hui Muslim sentenced to life imprisonment for “splittism” in Changji Prefecture in September 2018. In a verdict obtained by Human Rights Watch, the Changji Intermediate People’s Court convicted Jin, 47, for “repeatedly and illegally” organizing trips abroad to study the Quran, inviting religious figures from countries including Bangladesh and Kyrgyzstan to Xinjiang, and holding religious meetings in the region between 2006 and 2014. The authorities accused Jin of encouraging others to take part in Tablighi Jamaat, a kind of transnational movement of Islamic proselytization.
> 
> There is no publicly available evidence that Jin’s activities constituted a recognizable criminal offense. Yet the court determined that his activities had “promoted the infiltration of foreign religious forces in China,” “strengthened the idea that Islam will unite the world, ultimately to establish a caliphate,” and thus “endangered the country.”
> 
> Jin was sentenced to seven years for “gathering crowds to disturb social order” in 2015 for these same behaviors, but the procuratorate challenged the verdict in 2017 and asked for a heavier sentence, resulting in a retrial that resulted in a life sentence. Prior to this sentence, in 2009, Jin had been imprisoned for 18 months for teaching the Quran to over two dozen Hui and Uyghur children.
> 
> Aside from Jin Huaide’s case, the Xinjiang Victims Database found six others, some provided by families:
> 
> Nebijan Ghoja Ehmet, an ethnic Uyghur, was convicted of “inciting ethnic hatred and discrimination” for telling others “what is haram and halal” (prohibited and permissible in Islam) and sentenced to 10 years in prison;
> Huang Shike, Hui, was convicted of “illegal use of the internet” for explaining the Quran to others in two WeChat groups and sentenced to two years in prison;
> Asqar Azatbek, Kazakh, was convicted of “spying and fraud” for showing a visiting Kazakh official around hydraulic projects near the Kazakh-Chinese border and sentenced to 20 years in prison;
> Nie Shigang, Hui, was originally convicted of “assisting in terrorist activities” and “money laundering” for helping over 100 Uyghurs transfer money to their relatives in Egypt – funds authorities said were used for terrorist activities – and sentenced to 15 years in prison. Upon appeal, however, the court ruled that Nie was not guilty of “assisting in terrorist activities” and reduced his sentence to five years for “money laundering;”
> Nurlan Pioner, Kazakh, was convicted of “disturbing public order and extremism” for educating over 70 people in religion, and sentenced to 17 years in prison;
> Serikzhan Adilhan, Kazakh, was convicted of running an “illegal business” for selling cigarettes worth 174,600 RMB (US$27,000) without a license and sentenced to 3 and a half years. The verdict of Serikzhan Adilhan is the only one of the seven available verdicts that is posted on China’s official database of court verdicts.
> Other available information concerning 51 cases, including the indictments, incarceration notices, leaked official documents, and official communications with families indicate that most of the Uyghur and Kazakh individuals in these cases have been imprisoned for vague and overbroad offenses such as “inciting ethnic hatred,” “picking quarrels and provoking trouble,” and for watching or listening to “extremist” content.
> 
> One such document, an indictment detaining the case of four Uyghur family members, illustrates the Chinese government’s perilously over-expansive use of the terms “terrorism” and “extremism.” The four were indicted in January 2019 for travelling to Turkey in 2013 and 2014 to visit another family member. Chinese authorities claimed that the man in Turkey, a university lecturer named Erkin Emet, belongs to a terrorist organization, and that the money (US$2,500) and gifts his family gave him – including a dutar, a traditional musical instrument, a gold ring, and basic necessities – were evidence of them “assisting terrorism.” These four, along with another sibling of Emet, were given sentences of 11 to 23 years, according to Emet, who in 2019 learned about their conviction.
> 
> These verdicts and the additional case information suggest that the courts in Xinjiang have convicted and imprisoned many people who had not committed a genuine offense.
> 
> *No Due Process Under Strike Hard Campaign*
> 
> Xinjiang’s Strike Hard Campaign targets the “ideological virus” of Turkic Muslims, religious and political ideas that do not conform to those prescribed by the state, such as pan-Islamism. It involves mass surveillance and political indoctrination of the entire population. The authorities evaluate people’s thoughts, behavior, and relationships based on bogus and broad criteria – such as whether they have families abroad – to determine their course of “correction.” Those whose transgressions the authorities consider light are held in political education camps or under other forms of movement restrictions, including house arrest. Past government practice suggests that more serious cases are processed in the formal criminal justice system.
> 
> The Strike Hard Campaign is typical of Chinese authorities’ periodic and politicized “anti-crime” initiatives. The authorities pressure the police, procuratorate, and courts to cooperate to deliver swift and harsh punishment, leading to summary trials, the processing of large number of cases in a short time, and a suspension of basic procedural rights under Chinese law.
> 
> Similar dynamics appear to characterize Xinjiang’s Strike Hard Campaign. News reports describe crushing work pressure on Xinjiang officials, including those in the criminal justice system. One describes police officers, procurators, and judges not having time to eat or sleep, and holidays being suspended. Human Rights Watch in 2018 interviewed people held in Xinjiang’s formal detention centers between 2016 and 2018 who said that they and fellow detainees were tortured to confess crimes and deprived of access to lawyers. Radio Free Asia has reported that people are being sentenced with perfunctory and closed trials that families cannot attend.
> 
> International pressure may have contributed to the Chinese government releasing some detainees from “political education” camps. The government, which has denied mass arbitrary detentions in Xinjiang, has asserted that it governs the region according to the “rule of law.” But many people have been forcibly disappeared, detained or imprisoned with their families not informed of their whereabouts. Those released are subjected to continued surveillance, control of their movements, and some to forced labor.
> 
> “International pressure on the Chinese government should be escalated for an independent investigation in Xinjiang,” Wang said. “That’s the best hope for the release of all those unjustly detained or imprisoned.”


I am blesses to have travelled to a lot of countries around the world, have taken courses in educational institutions and have personally taught in vocational institutions. No where did I find perimeter fences erected to withhold students - what kind of vocational institution would have such a fence with barbed wires - only place these measures belong in is a jail or imprisonment facility. 

They can call it whatever they want but the environment of these facilities gives away their charade. It's only a matter of time before this spell of warmth towards China will disappear and nations will question their treatment of minorities.

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## kankan326

313ghazi said:


> Which Arab army occupied China?


Uyghur ancestors were Buddhists. I don't think they would give up their religion easily.


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## denel

Invicta said:


> I am blesses to have travelled to a lot of countries around the world, have taken courses in educational institutions and have personally taught in vocational institutions. No where did I find perimeter fences erected to withhold students - what kind of vocational institution would have such a fence with barbed wires - only place these measures belong in is a jail or imprisonment facility.
> 
> They can call it whatever they want but the environment of these facilities gives away their charade. It's only a matter of time before this spell of warmth towards China will disappear and nations will question their treatment of minorities.


Indeed, if you come here and travel north - you will see what is happening. Things are spiraling and i fear they will see what Idi Amin did to asians in Uganda happen again.

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## denel

kankan326 said:


> Religion has nothing to do with genocide. Europeans forced or seduced Africans, some Asian countries to convert into their religions. Is that genocide?
> 
> Arabs forced Uygur ancestors to convert into Islam. Is that genocide?


get your facts right. Islam would not have traversed the world if forced


kankan326 said:


> Uyghur ancestors were Buddhists. I don't think they would give up their religion easily.


stick to the topic and stop derailing as per your norm. if you have nothing to say, kindly leave.

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## Invicta

denel said:


> Indeed, if you come here and travel north - you will see what is happening. Things are spiraling and i fear they will see what Idi Amin did to asians in Uganda happen again.


I have been to China but only Beijing, had no reason to travel to that side of China. In fact when I visited I had a very positive outlook of China and still have fond memories from my time spent there, it's just a shame how they are treating Uyghurs and undoing any good feelings normal people might have about China. I found a thread on by WarThunder see link the video explains the actual laws CCP has implemented and how vague they are - this vagueness is used to harass Uyghurs and flies in face of claims made by Chinese posters on this forum.






Cutting Through the BS on Xinjiang: Uyghur Genocide or Vocational Training?


A rather neutral and factual checked assessment of what's actually going on. Not your everyday CCP sponsored crap you keep seeing from the CCP mouth pieces here, nor the BBC/CNN propaganda bullshit. P.S: It might not be for mentally imprisoned folk. And I hope it can explain to our Chinese...



defence.pk

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## 313ghazi

kankan326 said:


> Uyghur ancestors were Buddhists. I don't think they would give up their religion easily.



Assume for a minute that is correct, does that justify the Chinese state forcing people to abandon their religion and culture?


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## Leishangthem

From human right watch ,the remnant of Coldwar era's anti communism propaganda cutout ,stacked by ex cia ,the so called human rights watch that's worth 250 million usd?.Kenneth Roth the director of hrw involved in US led neo colonial hijack of Myanmar.

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## kankan326

313ghazi said:


> Assume for a minute that is correct, does that justify the Chinese state forcing people to abandon their religion and culture?


It's more like de-Wahhabilization in Xingjiang. Traditionally Uyghur muslims were very different from Arab Muslims. Uyghur men usually drink wine. And Uyghur women don't wear Arab style cloths. But from 1990s, there was a trend that Uyghurs became Arabs. China tries to stop this trend.


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## denel

kankan326 said:


> It's more like de-Wahhabilization in Xingjiang. Traditionally Uyghur muslims were very different from Arab Muslims. Uyghur men usually drink wine. And Uyghur women don't wear Arab style cloths. But from 1990s, there was a trend that Uyghurs became Arabs. China tries to stop this trend.


as i noted, please take your dressing and fashion arguement - a deliberate derailment tactic known to be a favourite tactic. 

Stick to the topic. If you cannot contribute, just shooo off.

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## Jobless Jack

Jackdaws said:


> Need a puke emoji for news coming out of China.


Big words coming from a nation that drinks cow urine and bathes in cow dung...

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## denel

Leishangthem said:


> From human right watch ,the remnant of Coldwater era's anti communism propaganda cutout ,stacked by ex cia ,the so called human rights watch that's worth 250 million usd?.Kenneth Roth the chairman of hrw involved in US led neo colonial hijack of Myanmar.





Jobless Jack said:


> Big words coming from a nation that drinks cow urine and bathes in cow dung...


stop derailing the topic.

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## aziqbal

The best part is the Chinese show their hate openly towards Pakistani and Muslims on this forum 

So it proves what’s happening to Uighurs is true 

Also UN commissioner for human rights has been refused entry to Xinjiang 27 times 

So all is proof of mass genocide

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## beijingwalker

@WebMaster @LeGenD @waz @The Eagle This guy opened several separate Xinjiang related threads every day, so Can I also do the same or only Xinjiang smearing threads are allowed to be opened separately?
Last time I did it , I got banned for 2 weeks.


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## denel

@beijingwalker

These are valid threads and valid reports of gross human right violation. You have no right to label these as smearing. 

Yet - just like this forum allows you the privilege to spam entire fake news reports left/right; yet you cannot defend any of these reports with single valid argument except cry out.

Kindly feel free to add your notes under each of those threads. Just like you feel the need to promote propaganda spam; real world injustices need to be highlighted. This forum allows valid discussions to be hand. There is no insult but facts to be discussed.

Kindly participate.


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## Jackdaws

Jobless Jack said:


> Big words coming from a nation that drinks cow urine and bathes in cow dung...



That's mostly done near Chinese refugee camps by some people so that the Chinese don't feel homesick. Lol but none of bad Indian hygiene and gastronomical activities have caused a pandemic.

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## aziqbal

Mods this guy always wants to have all Uighur posts added to Uighur threads because they want all Uighur related info to disappear and be lost and get lost in the hi jacked Uighur thread 

Because they don’t want to see and answer any of the Uighur related questions they want all Uighur related posts to be combined into the rubbish Uighur thread which they fill with fake YouTube and twitter accounts 

This way good info like this thread is lost 

So I kindly request @waz @Foxtrot Alpha to allow us to openly discuss all Uighur related issues with new threads where one of warranted 

Also this is one very special so warrants it’s own thread

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## denel

aziqbal said:


> Mods this guy always wants to have all Uighur posts added to Uighur threads because they want all Uighur related info to disappear and be lost and get lost in the hi jacked Uighur thread
> 
> Because they don’t want to see and answer any of the Uighur related questions they want all Uighur related posts to be combined into the rubbish Uighur thread which they fill with fake YouTube and twitter accounts
> 
> This way good info like this thread is lost
> 
> So I kindly request @waz @Foxtrot Alpha to allow us to openly discuss all Uighur related issues with new threads where one of warranted
> 
> Also this is one very special so warrants it’s own thread


I wholely concur, this is a serous human rights issue and needs to be highlighted outside the buried thread.

Each aspects deserves a valid thread.

These state actors want to make this disappear as though it does not exist.


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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> Mods this guy always wants to have all Uighur posts added to Uighur threads because they want all Uighur related info to disappear and be lost and get lost in the hi jacked Uighur thread


I honestly don't, I want I can post separate Xinjiang threads myself.


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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> I honestly don't, I want I can post separate Xinjiang threads myself.



There is a big Difference between trolling and posting genuine information

Opening new threads with fake YouTube and Twitter accounts does not count as information

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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> There is a big Difference between trolling and posting genuine information
> 
> Opening new threads with fake YouTube and Twitter accounts does not count as information


You must be talking about yourself, I never post twitter based contents.


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## aziqbal

kankan326 said:


> Uyghur ancestors were Buddhists. I don't think they would give up their religion easily.




A fake YouTube video by Chinese is not credible source of info 

Do you have any independent media which can prove your claim ?

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## denel

aziqbal said:


> A fake YouTube video by Chinese is not credible source of info
> 
> Do you have any independent media which can prove your claim ?


You are expecting too much from these folks - they have to rewrite entire history books.

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## denel

aziqbal said:


> The best part is the Chinese show their hate openly towards Pakistani and Muslims on this forum
> 
> So it proves what’s happening to Uighurs is true
> 
> Also UN commissioner for human rights has been refused entry to Xinjiang 27 times
> 
> So all is proof of mass genocide


You forget - they openly state hatred towards Abrahamic faith.


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## kankan326

aziqbal said:


> A fake YouTube video by Chinese is not credible source of info
> 
> Do you have any independent media which can prove your claim ?


The video was not made by Chinese. Probably Canadians

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## beijingwalker

If I were allowed to start separate Xinjiang related threads, my threads can easily overwhelm those guys', I m not bragging.

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## White and Green with M/S

kankan326 said:


> The video was not made by Chinese. Probably Canadians


Ànd drinking wine ànd not wear a hijabs or not covering the whole body with clothes are strickly prohibited ànd against the preaching of Islam

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## 313ghazi

kankan326 said:


> It's more like de-Wahhabilization in Xingjiang. Traditionally Uyghur muslims were very different from Arab Muslims. Uyghur men usually drink wine. And Uyghur women don't wear Arab style cloths. But from 1990s, there was a trend that Uyghurs became Arabs. China tries to stop this trend.



Surely you must agree that the choice to dress or behave in a certain way or not ought to be the right of the individual? Most Chinese people today wear Western clothing rather than historical Chinese styles, but if people wanted to start dressing in a traditional style, or say in a completely new style altogether - the state would unlikely be intervening to prevent it. 

Take the 'Stan countries of the former USSR for example. The populations of these countries used to be very traditional Muslims. Then during the Soviet era religious curbs were put in place and non Islamic practices became the norm in many of these societies. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, some people have become more conservative, others haven't. It is their personal liberty to do so. 

By your state micro-managing in such matters it creates scope discrimination, especially when your laws also discourage political opposition to the state. China has benefited immensely by legislating to keep people on the same track, but when this involved minority populations, there is a greater risk of it being portrayed as over-powering the values of others. 

Chinese members often bring up security and that is a legitimate concern, especially with the USA having bases at your borders fostering extremists like ISIS and Al Queda before them. To tackle that you have to use your intelligence services and security services. Nowhere in the world has action targeted at communities had a positive impact.


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## Maarkhoor

@WebMaster @Horus @Slav Defence

@denel Always posting Anti China threads where he was encouraged by his pal @aziqbal ....

I think both are being paid by west to propagate against China on A Pakistani defence forum.

Both are title holders and deliberately spreading hate against our friendly country.

Today @denel posted around 6 thread against China and I am fail to understand is this obsession or he is just doing his job to get money.
@Foxtrot Alpha @Arsalan @The Eagle

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## kankan326

White and Green with M/S said:


> Ànd drinking wine ànd not wear a hijabs or not covering the whole body with clothes are strickly prohibited ànd against the preaching of Islam


These are thousand years tradition of Uyghur. Not just Uyghur, some other Muslim minorities like Kazak also drink wine. You can see it this way. Uyghur is not a fully islamized ethnic. If you guys respect Uyghur's culture, you should accepte it and stop requiring them to meet your religion standards.


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## Maarkhoor

@WebMaster @Horus @Slav Defence

@denel Always posting Anti China threads where he was encouraged by his pal @aziqbal ....

I think both are being paid by west to propagate against China on A Pakistani defence forum.

Both are title holders and deliberately spreading hate against our friendly country.

Today @denel posted around 6 thread against China and I am fail to understand is this obsession or he is just doing his job to get money.
@Foxtrot Alpha @Arsalan @The Eagle

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## denel

Maarkhoor said:


> @WebMaster @Horus @Slav Defence
> 
> @denel Always posting Anti China threads where he was encouraged by his pal @aziqbal ....
> 
> I think both are being paid by west to propagate against China on A Pakistani defence forum.
> 
> Both are title holders and deliberately spreading hate against our friendly country.
> 
> Today @denel posted around 6 thread against China and I am fail to understand is this obsession or he is just doing his job to get money.
> @Foxtrot Alpha @Arsalan @The Eagle


Friend - If I call out human rights - it is considered a problem? If lies are propagated by the Chinese - it is great.

Btw: I dont get paid - i am retired already. God has given me enough and I serve humanity.

Open your eyes - after being called racists words against myself, my family etc; when muslims are being oppressed and victimised - you need to re-evaluate your own faith.

What I posted is authentic from Uighur issues to massive illegal problems we are facing in my continent from these Chinese. Is that not allowed? If you have objections, please kindly participate and engage in meaningful discussion; I would love to hear from your view point.

Salams to you and blessings during this month of Ramadhan and remember the Uighurs who cannot fast.

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## denel

kankan326 said:


> The video was not made by Chinese. Probably Canadians


paid by your govt .... youtube


Maarkhoor said:


> @WebMaster @Horus @Slav Defence
> 
> @denel Always posting Anti China threads where he was encouraged by his pal @aziqbal ....
> 
> I think both are being paid by west to propagate against China on A Pakistani defence forum.
> 
> Both are title holders and deliberately spreading hate against our friendly country.
> 
> Today @denel posted around 6 thread against China and I am fail to understand is this obsession or he is just doing his job to get money.
> @Foxtrot Alpha @Arsalan @The Eagle


Friend - If I call out human rights - it is considered a problem? If lies are propagated by the Chinese - it is great.

Btw: I dont get paid - i am retired already. God has given me enough and I serve humanity.

Open your eyes - after being called racists words against myself, my family etc; when muslims are being oppressed and victimised - you need to re-evaluate your own faith.

What I posted is authentic from Uighur issues to massive illegal problems we are facing in my continent from these Chinese. Is that not allowed? If you have objections, please kindly participate and engage in meaningful discussion; I would love to hear from your view point.

Salams to you and blessings during this month of Ramadhan and remember the Uighurs who cannot fast.

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## Dariush the Great

Maarkhoor said:


> @WebMaster @Horus @Slav Defence
> 
> @denel Always posting Anti China threads where he was encouraged by his pal @aziqbal ....
> 
> I think both are being paid by west to propagate against China on A Pakistani defence forum.
> 
> Both are title holders and deliberately spreading hate against our friendly country.
> 
> Today @denel posted around 6 thread against China and I am fail to understand is this obsession or he is just doing his job to get money.
> @Foxtrot Alpha @Arsalan @The Eagle


Yes i noticed it too. Extremely strange. How can someone be so idle to spend many hours on a forum posting anti-China propaganda? Doesn't make sense.. makes sense if they are getting paid or if they are seeking some personal revenge. Best is to report or ''laugh them away'' in every single post.


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## Leishangthem

Accourding to UN:

Human Rights Watch chief Kenneth roth solicited a $470,000 gift from a Saudi billionaire promising NOT to defend #LGBT rights

HRW had been reported on the donor's slavery-like abuse of workers

Roth's HRW had $223 million of net assets

*Human Rights Watch refused to called the US-backed military overthrow of Bolivia’s President Evo Morales a coup, and director Ken Roth praised the “transitional moment” against the elected “strongman”
By Alan MacLeod / MintPress News*


Bolivia is in turmoil after President Evo Morales was deposed in a U.S.-supported coup d’état on November 10.

The new coup government forced Morales into exile, arrested left-wing politicians and journalists, and then pre-exonerated security services of all crimes committed during the “re-establishment of order,” effectively giving soldiers a license to kill all resistance to the military junta’s rule.

Dozens have been killed. Indigenous protesters were massacred in the city of Cochabamba and the small town of Senkata.




In confusing and alarming situations such as these, millions of people around the world look to international human rights organizations for leadership and guidance.

However, far from standing up for the oppressed, Human Rights Watch (HRW) has effectively endorsed the events. In its official communiqué, HRW refrained from using the word coup, insisting Morales “resigned.”

HRW Americas director José Miguel Vivanco claimed President Morales stepped down “after weeks of civil unrest and violent clashes,” and did not even mention opposition violence against his party or the role of the military in demanding, at gunpoint, that he resign.

Therefore, Morales mysteriously “traveled to Mexico,” in the organization’s words, rather than fleeing there to escape arrest. HRW tacitly endorsed the coup government, advising it to “prioritize rights.”

Human Rights Watch executive director Kenneth Roth went further, presenting the elected head of state fleeing the country at gunpoint as a refreshing step forward for democracy.

Roth wrote that Morales was “the casualty of a counter-revolution aimed at defending democracy… against electoral fraud and his own illegal candidacy,” claiming that Morales had ordered the army to shoot protesters.




Roth also described the coup approvingly as an “uprising” and a “transitional moment” for Bolivia, while presenting President Morales as an out-of-touch “strongman.”




New self-declared President Jeanine Añez, whose party received just 4 percent of the vote share in the October elections, has already expelled hundreds of Cuban doctors, broken off ties with Venezuela, and pulled Bolivia out of multiple international and intercontinental organizations and treaties.

Añez describes the indigenous majority of Bolivians as “satanic” and insists they should not be allowed to live in cities, instead, being sent to the desert or the sparsely populated highlands.

Añez also declared that she is “committed to taking all measures necessary to pacify” the population.




Human Rights Watch described the law giving Bolivian security forces complete impunity to kill dissenters as a “problematic decree,” as if Añez had used racially insensitive language, rather than ordering a massacre.



In its statement, HRW noted that “nine people died and 122 were wounded” during the Cochabamba demonstration, leaving its readers completely in the dark about who died and who was responsible for the killing.

*A long history of ‘human rights’ double standards*
Human Rights Watch was originally established in 1978 as Helsinki Watch, an American organization dedicated to exposing the crimes of socialist Eastern Bloc countries and monitoring their compliance with the Helsinki Accords.

Since its establishment, HRW has consistently been criticized for acting as a de facto vehicle for U.S. foreign policy, employing former U.S. government officials in key positions, and displaying bias against leftist governments unfriendly to the United States.

A 2008 report on human rights violations in Venezuela authored by Jose Vivanco, for example, was immediately panned by hundreds of academics and Latin American scholars, who said the “grossly flawed” document “did not meet even the most minimal standards of scholarship, impartiality, accuracy, or credibility.”

Indeed, Vivanco openly stated his biases, revealing that he wrote the report “because we wanted to demonstrate to the world that Venezuela is not a model for anyone.”

In contrast, Human Rights Watch was relatively silent on the Honduran coup d’état that deposed leftist President Manuel Zelaya, and the repression that came after, effectively carrying water for U.S.-backed regime change.

As writer Keane Bhatt, who now works as Bernie Sanders’ communications director, argued in 2013, “Human Rights Watch’s deep ties to U.S. corporate and state sectors should disqualify the institution from any public pretense of independence.”

Likewise, Amnesty International’s image as a defender of human rights hides a dark past of being effectively a front organization for Western governments.

As MintPress News revealed earlier this year, a co-founder of the organization, Peter Benenson, was an avowed anti-communist with deep ties to the British Foreign and Colonial Offices, propping up the apartheid regime of South Africa at the UK government’s request.

Another Amnesty International co-founder, Luis Kutner, was an FBI asset who was linked to the U.S. government’s assassination of Black Panther leader Fred Hampton. Kutner went on to form an organization called “Friends of the FBI”, dedicated to countering and combating criticism of the bureau.

While some may be surprised by Human Rights Watch’s response to the Bolivia crisis, the organization’s applause for the U.S.-backed right-wing coup against a democratically elected socialist head of state is not an aberration or a mistake.

HRW is performing its duty in reinforcing U.S. hegemony by condemning any leftist challengers in America’s “backyard.”


Sarah Margon, Washington director at Human Rights Watch, maintained, “Senator McCain was for decades a compassionate voice for US foreign and national security policy.” She added, “He was never shy about his commitment to basic rights and frequently confronted global leaders directly about their repression and abuse.”

The real McCain was an unabashed war hawk who staunchly supported the illegal invasion of Iraq. In March 2003 he declared, “When the people of Iraq are liberated, we will again have written another chapter in the glorious history of the United States of America.”

The real McCain joked about bombing Iran, singing “Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran!” to the tune of The Beach Boys’ “Barbara Ann.”

The real McCain voted to continue US support for Saudi Arabia’s murderous war on Yemen, which has unleashed the largest humanitarian catastrophe on Earth, pushing millions of impoverished civilians to the brink of famine.

The real McCain refused to apologize for calling Vietnamese people racial slurs. “I hate the gooks,” McCain insisted. “I will hate them as long as I live.”

The real McCain repeatedly said “Thank God for the Saudis,” applauding a hyper-authoritarian theocratic absolute monarchy that serves as a loyal US client state.

But HRW, which rarely fails to toe the US government line, maintained that “McCain and his staff championed a number of important human rights issues.”

“McCain worked tirelessly to help improve US foreign and national security policy to ensure it addressed both interests and values – a theme that very much guided his own approach to policy,” the hagiographic HRW obituary continued. “His support for human rights were central to his world view and an inspiration to many activists around the world.”

The only mild criticism HRW reserved for McCain was a lone throwaway line: “There were certainly times when McCain didn’t live up to his own aspirations.”

This is an extreme understatement.

McCain relentlessly advocated for war across the planet. In 2013, the liberal magazine Mother Jones (before it turned significantly to the right after the election of Donald Trump) created a map of the many countries where the unrepentant warmonger had called for US military intervention. These included, but were not limited to:


Syria
Iraq
Afghanistan
Libya
Kosovo
Nigeria
Bosnia
North Korea
Iran
Russia
Sudan
Mali
China
Aside from his hyper-hawkish foreign policy, McCain likewise supported the racist “war on drugs” and mandatory minimums. He additionally pushed for an end to affirmative action.

Yet upon his death, HRW Washington Director Sarah Margon took to Twitter to whitewash the war criminal, effusing, “The finality of John McCain’s death feels exceptionally tough for those of us who have fought for human decency & basic rights, along side & with him & his staff for so many years. Now we will do so in honor of his legacy. RIP.”








************

HRW the anti communism formerly, Helsinki watch, has been accused of evidence-gathering bias because it is said to be "credulous of civilian witnesses in places like Gaza and Afghanistan" but "skeptical of anyone in a uniform."[1] Its founder, Robert Bernstein, accused the organization of poor research methods and relying on "witnesses whose stories cannot be verified and who may testify for political advantage or because they fear retaliation from their own rulers."[2] In October 2009, Bernstein said that the organization had lost critical perspective on events in the Middle East:[2] "[T]he region is populated by authoritarian regimes with appalling human rights records. Yet in recent years Human Rights Watch has written far more condemnations of Israel for violations of international law than of any other country in the region."[2] HRW responded by saying that HRW "does not devote more time and energy to Israel than to other countries in the region, or in the world".[3] Tom Porteus, director of the HRW's London branch, replied that the organization rejected Bernstein's "obvious double standard. Any credible human rights organization must apply the same human rights standards to all countries."[4]

According to _The Times_, HRW "does not always practice the transparency, tolerance and accountability it urges on others."[1] _The Times_ accused HRW of imbalance, alleging that it ignores human-rights abuses in certain regimes while covering other conflict zones (notably Israel) intensively. Although HRW issued five reports on Israel in one fourteen-month period, _The Times_ first said in twenty years HRW issued only four reports on the conflict in Kashmir (despite 80,000 conflict-related deaths in Kashmir and "torture and extrajudicial murder ... on a vast scale")[1] and it first said no report on post-election violence and repression in Iran. In their correction issued on 4 April 2010, _The Times_ said HRW had published nine articles about the conflict in Kashmir and one report about the post-election abuses in Iran in February that year.[5] A source told _The Times_, "Iran is just not a bad guy that they are interested in highlighting. Their hearts are not in it. Let's face it, the thing that really excites them is Israel."[1] The newspaper quoted Noah Pollak, an HRW critic and conservative commentator, said HRW cares if Israel maltreats Palestinians but "is less concerned if perpetrators are fellow Arab". One example given was the 2007 Lebanon conflict in the Nahr al-Bared refugee camp and it was said HRW issued one press release but not a report.[1] In their correction, _The Times_ said HRW had written three press releases and had reported abuses against Palestinians by the Palestinian Authority, Hamas, Kuwait, Jordan and Iraq.[5]

In the February 2013 issue of _The Spectator_ Nick Cohen wrote, "Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch look with horror on those who speak out about murder, mutilation and oppression if the murderers, mutilators and oppressors do not fit into their script."[6] Robert Bernstein accused HRW of allowing repressive regimes to play a "moral equivalence game", failing to weigh evidence according to whether it was collected from an open or closed society[2] and failing to recognize any "difference between wrongs committed in self-defense and those perpetrated intentionally."[2] _The Times_ accused HRW of filling its staff with former radical political activists, including Joe Stork and Sarah Leah Whitson: "Theoretically an organization like HRW would not select as its researchers people who are so evidently on one side."[1] HRW has been accused of being unwilling (or unable) to perceive threats posed by Islamic extremism because their leftist ideology leads them to see criticism of Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Qaeda and similar groups as "a dangerous distraction from the real struggle."[1] An example was a 2006 verbal attack on Peter Tatchell, who was accused of racism, Islamophobia and colonialism by HRW staff for criticizing Iran's execution of homosexuals.[1]

In May 2014 an open letter was published criticising Human Rights Watch for what were described as its close ties to the government of the United States. The letter was signed by Nobel Peace Laureates Adolfo Pérez Esquivel and Mairead Corrigan, former UN Assistant Secretary-General Hans von Sponeck, United Nations Special Rapporteur on Human Rights in the Palestinian Territories Richard A. Falk, and over 100 scholars and cultural figures. The letter highlighted a number of Human Rights Watch officials who had been involved in foreign policy roles in the US government, including Washington advocacy director Tom Malinowski, formerly a speechwriter for Madeleine Albright and a special adviser to Bill Clinton, and subsequently Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor to John Kerry, and HRW Americas advisory committee members Myles Frechette (a former United States Ambassador to Colombia) and Michael Shifter (former Latin America director for the US government-funded National Endowment for Democracy). The letter contrasted HRW's criticism of Venezuela's candidacy for the United Nations Human Rights Council in a letter to Hugo Chávez to the lack of censure regarding the United States' tenure as a member of the Council, despite the US government's use of a "kill list" for designated enemies, ongoing usage of extraordinary renditions and the continued detention of combatants at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base. The signatories called on Human Rights Watch to ban those involved in formulating or carrying out US foreign policy from serving as members of the organisation's staff, advisers or board members, or as a "bare minimum", instituting lengthy cooling-off periods between spells working for HRW and in the service of US foreign policy.[7]

*Allegations regarding Latin America*

*Venezuela*
Human Rights Watch work in Venezuela became controversial in September 2008, when the country's government expelled two HRW staff members accused of "anti-state activities".[10] Then Foreign Minister Nicolás Maduro said, "These groups, dressed up as human rights defenders, are financed by the United States. They are aligned with a policy of attacking countries that are building new economic models."[11] The report highlights the discrimination of Chávez administration against political opponents and freedom of expression. According to one of the expelled members, the decision of the Venezuelan government was against Venezuelan law.[11]

After HRW published a report (_A Decade Under Chávez: Political Intolerance and Lost Opportunities for Advancing Human Rights in Venezuela_)[12] documenting Chavez government abuses, 118 scholars, activists and film-makers from Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Mexico, the US, the UK, Venezuela and other countries signed a letter, written by US academics Miguel Tinker Salas, Gregory Wilpert and Greg Grandin, criticizing the organization for a perceived bias against the government of Venezuela. The open letter criticized the report, saying that it "does not meet even the most minimal standards of scholarship, impartiality, accuracy, or credibility."[13] HRW director Kenneth Roth responded that the letter misrepresents "both the substance and the source material of the report".[14] Around the same time, Irish journalist Hugh O'Shaughnessy accused HRW of using false and misleading information, saying that the report was "put together with [a] sort of know-nothing Washington bias."[15] Tom Porteous, Human Rights Watch's London director, said that O'Shaughnessy " ... not only fails to provide any evidence for these allegations", but " ... more seriously, he misrepresents HRW's positions in his apparent determination to undermine our well earned international reputation for accuracy and impartiality."[16]

*Honduras[edit]*
On 21 August, 2009 93 academics and authors from the UK, the US, Canada, Australia, Mexico, Colombia and other countries published an open letter criticizing HRW's "absence of statements and reports" on human-rights violations in Honduras after 8 July 2009, following the 28 June coup d'état.[8] According to its authors, after 8 July HRW had not "raised the alarm over the extra-judicial killings, arbitrary detentions, physical assaults, and attacks on the press - many of which have been thoroughly documented - that have occurred in Honduras, in most cases by the coup regime against the supporters of the democratic and constitutional government of Manuel Zelaya";[8] they asked HRW to make a strong statement against the human-rights violations and conduct its own investigation.[8] The letter's signers said that the Obama administration was supporting the _de facto_ Roberto Micheletti government by providing "aid money through the Millennium Challenge Account and other sources", training Honduran military students at the School of the Americas and ignoring Honduras' human-rights situation.[8] Four days later, HRW published[17] a summary of the preliminary version of a Honduran human-rights report by the Inter-American Court of Human Rights (IACHR) published on 21 August[18] and cited its earlier reports (published until 8 July): "Given the scope of alleged abuses, and the region's history of bloody coups leading to massive violations, human rights advocates believed the situation warranted the direct intervention of the region's most authoritative human rights investigative body, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights."[17]

*Allegations of anti-Israel bias*
Robert Bernstein wrote that by focusing on Israel and neglecting human rights violations by less free states in the Middle East that HRW had cast "aside its important distinction between open and closed societies."[2] In response, Aryeh Neier HRW co-founder and former executive director said, it "is wrong to suggest that open societies should be spared criticism for human rights abuses". Neier also said that Robert Bernstein's distinction between "wrongs committed in self-defense and those committed intentionally" is not made by the laws of war and is dangerous. "On such grounds, groups such as al-Qaeda in Iraq" (which "murdered tens of thousands of civilians after" the 2003 American invasion) could justify their crimes.[19]

Writer in WSJ in 2009 says the facts tell a different story than what HRW is being portrayed. From 2006 to the present, Human Rights Watch's reports on the Israeli-Arab conflict have been almost entirely devoted to condemning Israel.[20]

For a _Jerusalem Post_ article, Natan Sharansky said: "Here is an organization created by the goodwill of the free world to fight violations of human rights, which has become a tool in the hands of dictatorial regimes to fight against democracies ... It is time to call a spade a spade. The real activity of this organization today is a far cry from what it was set up 30 years ago to do: throw light in dark places where there is really no other way to find out what is happening regarding human rights."[21] HRW executive director Kenneth Roth responded that "Israel accounts for about 15 percent of our published output on the region" and "our war coverage in the region has documented violations by all sides". According to Roth, "By failing to hold those responsible to account, Israel increases anger and resentment among the Palestinian population and in the wider Arab world and undercuts moderates who wish to pursue peace."[22] _Time_ Mideast correspondent Scott MacLeod wrote in the _Los Angeles Times_ that Israeli policy cannot be shielded from a group like Human Rights Watch.[23]

HRW has been accused of bias against Israel[24][25][26][27][28] and having an anti-Israeli agenda[21][29][30] by NGO Monitor.[31][32][33] Political science professor and former consultant to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs Gerald M. Steinberg of Bar Ilan University, head of NGO Monitor (a pro-Israel NGO),[34] accused HRW of having "a strong anti-Israel bias from the beginning".[35] According to Steinberg, the organization's reports were based primarily on "Palestinian eyewitness testimony": testimony that is "not accurate, objective or credible but serves the political goal of indicting Israel".[36] In a _The Wall Street Journal_ opinion piece, law professor David Bernstein called HRW "maniacally anti-Israel".[37][38] Spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu Mark Regev said: "We discovered during the Gaza operation and the Second Lebanon War that these organizations come in with a very strong agenda, and because they claim to have some kind of halo around them, they receive a status that they don't deserve," referring to HRW and Amnesty International allegations of human-rights violations by Israeli forces during those conflicts.[39]

The organization has also been accused of ignoring anti-Semitism or being anti-Semitic itself. In a 2005 speech to the Anti-Defamation League former Spanish Foreign Minister Ana Palacio said, "NGOs like Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International pay little attention to anti-Semitism."[40] The ADL has also said, "While Human Rights Watch acknowledged in a May 3 report that there was no evidence of a massacre [in Jenin] and that Palestinian gunmen had contributed to endangering Palestinian civilians, they continued to emphasize that there was prima facie evidence Israel committed war crimes."[41] In _The New York Sun_, ADL national director Abraham Foxman criticized Roth's use of "a classic anti-Semitic stereotype about Jews".[42] In 2012, _New Europe_ said that HRW "allegedly erased references in its reports to its previous cooperation with the Gaddafi regime, including the role of the organization's MENA Director, Sarah Leah Whitson, in marketing Saif al-Islam Gaddafi as a reformer."[43]

HRW Middle East and North Africa division director Sarah Leah Whitson responded to criticism: "In the case of Israel, where our focus is primarily on the violations of international law and humanitarian law in the occupied Palestinian territories, the fact that government is a democracy is completely irrelevant, because the rule in place in the occupied territories is military rule, it is not a democracy".[21] In July 2009, _Jerusalem Post_ columnist Larry Derfner accused Israel's Prime Minister's Office and NGO Monitor of "smearing" human-rights organizations in response to the criticism of HRW.[44] HRW program director Iain Levine said in August 2009, "If the Israeli government wants to silence critics, it should fully investigate allegations of wrongdoing and take action to end the abuses."[45] In a _Jerusalem Post_ op-ed piece that month, Kenneth Roth wrote that reports of recent Israeli human-rights violations had "given rise to an intense campaign by the Israeli government and some of its uncritical supporters to smear the messengers and change the subject." According to Roth, the "problem is not the messenger carrying news of that misconduct, whether Judge Goldstone or the human rights groups that have been the target of a disinformation campaign launched by the Israeli government and some supporters. The problem is the conduct of the Israeli military."[46] According to _The Times_, "most" HRW Middle East staff "have activist backgrounds — it was typical that one newly hired researcher came to HRW from the extremist anti-Israel publication Electronic Intifada — unlikely to reassure anyone who thinks that human-rights organizations should be non-partisan."[1] _The Times_ later said that the Electronic Intifada had published the HRW researcher's articles without permission and that she "was not directly employed by that group".[5]

In a November 2012 _The Wall Street Journal_ article, David Feith said that there has been "bitter debate" within HRW about whether Iran's alleged call for annihilation of Israel is a violation of human rights. HRW vice-chair Sid Sheinberg wrote in an internal email that doing nothing while Ahmadinejad wants to "kill Jews and annihilate Israel ... is a position unworthy of our great organization." According to Kenneth Roth, "Tehran isn't inciting genocide and claims to the contrary are part of an effort to beat the war drums against Iran."[47]

In an analysis published by the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, Ron Kampeas criticized HRW reports: "Reconstructions of the horrific death of civilians replete with painstakingly gathered evidence are coupled with bewildering omissions of context and blended into a package that assumes an inherent Israeli immorality" and denounced "efforts to turn criticism of individual officers and soldiers into a wholesale indictment of Israel's military establishment and the decision to resort to military force."[48] According to Kampeas, HRW reports on the 2009 fighting in Gaza "fail to assess evidence — including videos of Israeli forces holding their fire because of the presence of civilians — that Israel has provided to show that such incidents were the exception to the rule; they fail to examine what measures Israel has taken to prevent civilian deaths, which would be pertinent in examining any claim of war crimes."[48]

In October 2009, Robert Bernstein criticized the organization's policy in the Middle East in a _New York Times_ op-ed. According to Bernstein, "With increasing frequency, [HRW] casts aside its important distinction between open and closed societies ... The region is populated by authoritarian regimes with appalling human rights records. Yet in recent years Human Rights Watch has written far more condemnations of Israel for violations of international law than of any other country in the region."[2] HRW London branch director Tom Porteus replied that the organization rejected Bernstein's "obvious double standard. Any credible human rights organization must apply the same human rights standards to all countries."[4] Jane Olson and Jonathan Fanton wrote in a letter to _The New York Times_, "We were saddened to see Robert L. Bernstein argue that Israel should be judged by a different human rights standard than the rest of the world ... As long as open societies commit human rights abuses, Human Rights Watch has a vital role to play in documenting those violations and advocating to bring them to an end."[49] According to the organization, in April 2009 Bernstein brought his concerns to the HRW board of directors; the board unanimously rejected his view that Human Rights Watch should report only on closed societies, expressing its full support for the organization's work.[50]

_The New Republic_ published a lengthy article about HRW in April 2010, criticizing the organization for "giving disproportionate attention to Israeli misdeeds."[51] "Robert James—a businessman, World War II veteran, and member of the MENA [Middle East and North Africa Desk of HRW] advisory committee who has been involved with HRW almost since its inception—calls the group 'the greatest NGO since the Red Cross'," but argues that it is chronically incapable of introspection. 'Bob [Bernstein, founder and former chair of HRW] is bringing this issue up on Israel', he says. 'But Human Rights Watch has a more basic problem ... They cannot take criticism'."[51] According to the magazine (referring to Bernstein's _The New York Times_ op-ed), "Yet, as difficult as it was to go public, Bernstein does not believe that Human Rights Watch left him with much choice. 'They think they've heard me out,' he says. 'You see, they think they've listened to me until they can't listen anymore. Actually, they haven't listened at all'."[51] In November 2010 Bernstein delivered the Shirley and Leonard Goldstein Lecture on Human Rights at the University of Nebraska at Omaha,[52] accusing HRW of "fault[ing] Israel as the principal offender" in the Israel-Palestine conflict and suggesting that human-rights groups were responsible for polarizing university campuses.

In her _The Washington Post_ blog, Jennifer Rubin described HRW as "an anti-Israel group masquerading as one devoted to human rights".[53] A January 2012 _New Europe_ article quoted an NGO Monitor report which said that HRW gives "disproportionate attention" to Israel and the occupied territories, which received "more attention in 2011 than Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, or Iraq." According to the article, HRW reports continued to show "bias on Israel" and "all op-eds published on the Arab-Israeli conflict in major media focused on allegations against Israel."[43] Orlando Radice said about his interview with Kenneth Roth for _The Jewish Chronicle_, "This was less of an interview than an exercise in denial, obfuscation and plain old censorship."[54]

*Garlasco incident*
Senior HRW investigator Marc Garlasco has been criticized for collecting Nazi memorabilia,[55][56][_unreliable source?_] and Emma Daly confirmed without elaboration in March 2010 that Garlasco had resigned from Human Rights Watch the previous month. Garlasco, who wrote a book about Nazi-era medals, posted on a collector website: "That is so cool! The leather SS jacket makes my blood go cold it is so COOL!"[55][57][58][59][60] Ron Dermer, then Binyamin Netanyahu's policy director, said about Garlasco: "A war crimes investigator who is an avid collector and trader in Nazi memorabilia is perhaps a new low."[61] HRW issued a rebuttal, saying that the "accusation is demonstrably false and fits into a campaign to deflect attention from Human Rights Watch's rigorous and detailed reporting on violations of international human rights and humanitarian law by the Israeli government" and Garlasco "has never held or expressed Nazi or anti-Semitic views."[61] Helena Cobban (a fellow analyst on the Human Rights Watch Middle East advisory board) said that Garlasco engaged with "people who clearly do seem to be Nazi sympathizers," which she called "extremely disturbing".[62]

According to the organization Garlasco "covered Iraq as a senior intelligence analyst at the Pentagon",[63] and _The Guardian_ reported that he served in this role for seven years. He was chief of high-value targeting during the Iraq war in 2003, on the Operation Desert Fox (Iraq) Battle Damage Assessment team in 1998 and led a Pentagon Battle Damage Assessment team to Kosovo in 1999. Garlasco also participated in over 50 interrogations as a subject-matter expert.[64]

In a piece for _The National_, Alan Philps wrote that "the Netanyahu government and its supporters have set out to destroy the credibility of the UN Human Rights Council and all non-governmental organisations (NGOs) working in the human rights field ... The aim is clearly to de-legitimize the organization at a time when its rights-based analysis coincides with some of the views of the US president Barack Obama."[65]

According to _Christian Science Monitor_ staff writer Robert Marquand, a U.N. report by "jurist Richard Goldstone, head of South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission, chief prosecutor for the Yugoslav war-crimes tribunal" showed illegal white-phosphorus use consistent with Garlasco's eyewitness testimony provided to the _Monitor_. Marquand wrote that it was "not okay ... to use Garlasco to distract from or obfuscate findings that war crimes and crimes against humanity may have taken place in Gaza".[66]

*Fundraising*
On 7 September 2010, it was announced that George Soros planned to donate $100 million to Human Rights Watch.[67] Soros' donation was criticized by Gerald Steinberg, founder of NGO Monitor.[68]

Journalists have criticized Human Rights Watch for requesting, encouraging or accepting financial donations in Saudi Arabia and for its fundraising methods. Critics charge that these methods include descriptions of HRW "battles" and arguments with Israel and its supporters. According to _The Jerusalem Post_ columnist Herb Keinon and Jeffrey Goldberg, a correspondent for _The Atlantic_ and former _JP_ columnist, this compromises HRW's integrity.[21] In an email exchange, Goldberg asked Kenneth Roth if funds were raised to fight pro-Israel lobbying groups. Roth answered: "The Saudis obviously are aware of the systematic attacks on us by various reflexive defenders of Israel. Everyone is", adding that these complaints are common in "discussions" during fundraisers and not exclusive to Saudi Arabia.[69] A spokesman for Israeli PM Binyamin Netanyahu, Mark Regev, said in response to HRW's fundraising visit to Saudi Arabia, "A human rights organization raising money in Saudi Arabia is like a women's rights group asking the Taliban for a donation".[1][39]

David Bernstein of the George Mason University School of Law wrote that something is "wrong when a human rights organization goes to one of the worst countries in the world for human rights to raise money to wage lawfare against Israel",[37] although Inter Press Service later said that he apologized for suggesting that HRW did not also discuss Saudi human-rights abuses during the meetings.[70]

According to Human Rights Watch, allegations that HRW had "compromised its neutrality" by meeting with Saudi donors were based on "misleading assumptions and wrong facts". HRW noted that staffers made two May 2009 presentations in private Saudi homes to people interested in the organization. Among an estimated 50 guests at a Riyadh reception, three had governmental affiliations: "the spokesperson for the Ministry of Interior; the deputy head of the Human Rights Commission, a governmental organization; and a member of the Shura Council, a government-appointed consultative body."[71] According to HRW, none of those individuals were solicited for funds; HRW never accepts funds from government officials in any country,[72] and there is no reason why Saudi citizens cannot legitimately want to support human rights.[72] Gerald Steinberg, executive director of NGO Monitor, said that the HRW defense was an "absurd attempt to cast a distinction between soliciting Saudi officials and prominent members of society who owe their very position to the regime."[73]

HRW told Inter Press Service that the idea "that any money from Saudi Arabia is tainted because it comes from a country with a totalitarian ruling regime is a gross generalization ... The ethnic background of our donors is irrelevant to the work we do ... It's not relevant to our work in Israel that many, many of our donors are Jewish. And it's not relevant for the work that we do that we get money from Arab countries".[70] According to the organization its work in Saudi Arabia, including "coverage of women's rights, the juvenile death penalty, domestic workers, and discrimination against religious minorities", was discussed at the receptions.[72] HRW also said, "No other human rights group has produced a more comprehensive, detailed, and thorough body of work on Saudi Arabian human rights issues in recent years than Human Rights Watch".[72] Although the Gaza situation was covered, HRW claimed that the coverage was justified since the Gaza war dominated worldwide headlines and is a regional issue in Saudi Arabia. Criticism of HRW as anti-Israel was juxtaposed against the accusations HRW faces in much of the Middle East that HRW is soft on Israeli human-rights violations.[72]

In 2008, HRW issued one multi-country and five single-country reports criticizing the Saudi Arabian government.[74] In August 2009 the organization issued a report, "Human Rights and Saudi Arabia's Counterterrorism Response: Religious Counseling, Indefinite Detention, and Flawed Trials", criticizing the Saudi Arabian government's counterterrorism program.[75]

*Shawan Jabarin appointment[edit]*
In February 2011, HRW appointed Shawan Jabarin to their Mideast Advisory Board. Jabarin has been called "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" by the Israeli Supreme Court for his roles in the militant Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and the human-rights organization Al Haq. HRW's decision to include Jabarin on its Mideast Board evoked criticism from Robert Bernstein, Stuart Robinowitz (a New York attorney who has made human-rights missions for the American Bar Association and Helsinki Watch in Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and El Salvador,) Gerald Steinberg, president of NGO Monitor, and Middle East analyst Jonathan Schanzer.

*Criticism from Egyptian government*
On 14 August 2014, the one-year anniversary of the dispersal of pro-Morsi sit-ins by Egyptian police in the Rabaa al-Adawiya Square and Nahda Square, which lead to clashes that resulted in 638 deaths, of which 43 were police officers, according to the Egyptian Health Ministry, HRW published a report in which it accused security forces of excessive force, in addition to claiming that the dispersal was planned at the highest levels of the Egyptian government. The death toll given by HRW ranged from 817 to approximately 1000. HRW stated that the actions of the police likely amounted to "crimes against humanity."[79]

However, in an official statement from the State Information Service, the government of Egypt criticized HRW, alleging that the organization's report lacked transparency, ignored violence by protesters, and that it was biased in favor of the Muslim Brotherhood. As a consequence for publishing the report, executive director Kenneth Roth and Middle East and North Africa Director Sarah Leah Whitson, working for HRW, who were to publicly present the report to journalists and diplomats, were detained for hours by authorities and deported from Egypt.[80]

In a statement from the Egyptian Interior Ministry on its official Facebook page, HRW was accused of illegally operating in Egypt without permits from authorities.[81]

*Criticism from Ethiopian government*
The Ethiopian government has raised questions about HRW's methods, commissioning a report dismissing "Human Rights Watch allegations of abuses in the Ogaden as hearsay and its methods as slapdash".[82]

*Bangladesh government's attempted prosecution of HRW*
A special tribunal dealing with war crimes during Bangladesh's 1971 independence war with Pakistan asked Human Rights Watch to explain why it should not be charged with contempt of court for a statement from the organization that the trial of former Islamic party leader Ghulam Azam was "deeply flawed" and did not meet international standards. Azam was sentenced to 90 years in prison for war crimes. The U.S. ambassador in Bangladesh expressed concern over the prosecutors' move against the organization.[83


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## Ahmet Pasha

kankan326 said:


> It's more like de-Wahhabilization in Xingjiang. Traditionally Uyghur muslims were very different from Arab Muslims. Uyghur men usually drink wine. And Uyghur women don't wear Arab style cloths. But from 1990s, there was a trend that Uyghurs became Arabs. China tries to stop this trend.


Oh come on you CPC bots on many occasions have come out and said that all Pakistanis are suicide bombers. Even the ones who claim to be lovey dovey Iron Brothers for Pakistan.

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## kankan326

313ghazi said:


> Since the fall of the Soviet Union, some people have become more conservative,


Don't fortet the history background. When Soviet Union collapsed, Wahhabilization was on it peak. See what happened in Afghan, North Africa, Southeast Asian Muslim countries. The trend of Arabiliaztion also happened in these places.

In China, Muslim restaurants usually sold wines. From 1990's more and more stopped selling wines. You can not deny that there was/is an underground strength that is influencing on Muslims all over the world.

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## White and Green with M/S

kankan326 said:


> These are thousand years tradition of Uyghur. Not just Uyghur, some other Muslim minorities like Kazak also drink wine. You can see it this way. Uyghur is not a fully islamized ethnic. If you guys respect Uyghur's culture, you should accepte it and stop requiring them to meet your religion standards.


There isn't two rules in Islam that some people drink and wear less clothes ànd some people must obey this

For example how do like when some other countries who has the Buddhist minorities or your religion ànd trying forcefully change their mindset to not obey Buddhism rules ànd preachings would you like it brother if somebody forcefully changing your mindset to not to obey your religion rules ànd preachings??


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## Dariush the Great

White and Green with M/S said:


> There isn't two rules in Islam that some people drink and wear less clothes ànd some people must obey this


I am sorry to break down the way of life in the real world to you.. but each region has its own customs and rules. Even if they follow the same religion as you. 

Pakistan itself was pretty tolerant in the 50's and 60's.


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## White and Green with M/S

Maarkhoor said:


> @WebMaster @Horus @Slav Defence
> 
> @denel Always posting Anti China threads where he was encouraged by his pal @aziqbal ....
> 
> I think both are being paid by west to propagate against China on A Pakistani defence forum.
> 
> Both are title holders and deliberately spreading hate against our friendly country.
> 
> Today @denel posted around 6 thread against China and I am fail to understand is this obsession or he is just doing his job to get money.
> @Foxtrot Alpha @Arsalan @The Eagle


But he is doing right on this thread raising voices for our suppress uyghur Muslim brother ànd sisters

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## denel

Leishangthem said:


> derail what?
> 
> 
> human rights? are you white ? one those red-faced warmongers use that term to meddle in foreign affairs.
> You are clearly a paid troll.


really boet - i suggested you avoid racist overtones.

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## 313ghazi

kankan326 said:


> Don't fortet the history background. When Soviet Union collapsed, Wahhabilization was on it peak. See what happened in Afghan, North Africa, Southeast Asian Muslim countries. The trend of Arabiliaztion also happened in these places.
> 
> In China, Muslim restaurants usually sold wines. From 1990's more and more stopped selling wines. You can not deny that there was/is an underground strength that is influencing on Muslims all over the world.



What exactly is wahhabisation?


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## White and Green with M/S

denel said:


> really boet - i suggested you avoid racist overtones.


ARE you Muslim brother??

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## kankan326

313ghazi said:


> What exactly is wahhabisation?


Wahhabi followers expand their doctrines to other Muslims. Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Taliban are all Wahhabi followers.

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## White and Green with M/S

kankan326 said:


> Wahhabi followers expand their doctrines to other Muslims. Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Taliban are all Wahhabi followers.


Oh brother they not even human let alone Muslims

They're disguised ànd brainwashed by western agencies like CIA missed MI6 in 80s to fight Soviet union in Afghanistan

But Islam is not allowed any Muslim to drink wine and wear less clothes if we will do this especially drink wine we automatically quit from Islam

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## denel

kankan326 said:


> Wahhabi followers expand their doctrines to other Muslims. Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Taliban are all Wahhabi followers.


Please define what whahabi is in your own words vs recopies. I would love to hear your input.

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## Invicta

denel said:


> Please define what whahabi is in your own words vs recopies. I would love to hear your input.


Don't destroy his fictional notions - might self destruct in shame.

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## 313ghazi

kankan326 said:


> Wahhabi followers expand their doctrines to other Muslims. Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Taliban are all Wahhabi followers.



So that is inaccurate and honestly too simplistic a view. 

Firstly the Taliban are not wahhabi, they are Sunni Muslims, who follow the Hanafi fiqh and associate with the *Deobandi *reformist movement. 

Secondly, there are millions of Muslims who are what you might term wahhabi, and they are not dangerous extremists. 40% of the Saudi population is wahhabi. The same is true of the UAE and Qatar. All three of those countries are stable and do not suffer for any militancy.


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## Ahmet Pasha

kankan326 said:


> Wahhabi followers expand their doctrines to other Muslims. Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Taliban are all Wahhabi followers.


Those are khwarijiites bro. Not wahabis. You and so many other people on here have it wrong.


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## CAPRICORN-88

_Showing a photo *REAL Prison in Xinjiang* as Concentration Camp! The West propagandists are out of ammo. _

   

_How low can these paid Western Spin Doctors get?

*The piteous act is when brainless Asians esp those from the South whose countrymen are dying from the pandemic still have the mood to spread such lies and propaganda hence multiplying their bad karma for themselves, families and nations. *

A respectable Indian Judge died of COVID and they have to place him on the floor as the mortuary was packed. The family later discovered that his face was bitten and eaten by stray dogs is some of the dreadful tales circulating.

These trolls keep repeating the same lies propagated by US and their allies over and over again arevadding to their sins. Meanwhile Uyghur folks in Xinjiang is getting better with esch passing days. 

The rest of us are certainly not so stupid as that. 

What can we say? _


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## CAPRICORN-88

_China that specially chartered a plane to ship her Chinese Nationals out of COVID strike India is *demonized as a nation with NO human right. *

Meanwhile *Australia make it a criminal offence for her citizens and P.R. to return home from India today *promising them a *maximum penalty of 5 year imprisonment and Aussie 66,000 dollar fine* is described by US and allies as *defender of human rights. *

What rubbish is all this? Is this what the trolls are spreading in here. 

This COVID pandemic shows the REAL COLOR of USA and the West. 

Human right in the West exists in name only. 

Stop fooling ourself. _

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## Amaa'n

War Thunder said:


> Another troll comment, completely irrelevant to the subject matter or the facts presented in OP.
> How much do you CCP mouth pieces get paid for this?


that was some low quality religious derogatory - smart way of trolling -- you got to give it to them...


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## beijingwalker

Driving through a small border town in N Xinjiang Ili Kazakh Prefecture


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## denel

For those ccp bots who claim to show fake videos - here is a real one.

*Where did China's Muslims disappear?*






*Prayer is forbidden in this city !!*





Footage of mosques was deleted even. So much for the bots claims. See footage of 2016 Eid prayers. Let us see if we will even see a footage this years' prayers. No ramadhan allowed either.

Please watch and pass this along.

Salams and Ramadhan greetings to all muslims as we get into final week. May our prayers remembers the muslims of china who are in concentration camps and those unable to pray or fast.

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## Globenim

....

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## denel

Globenim said:


> Oh look its the same idiot who went to a heritage site who cant understand shit, but felt free to add fake translations from his handlers he works for and made up some retarded story that people cant pray in mosques in a city full of mosques as damage controll for the U.S. terror regimes fake "mosque razing" stories getting debunked and openly parrots retarded lies by U.S terror regime funded and disseminated Muslim hating literal cross bearing hate preachers on a crusade who insist Muslims and Communists should and will "burn in hell" but somehow is the top source of U.S. terror regimes "human rights concerns" about Muslims, thats getting spammed by the same racists idiots and paid U.S. shills who make excuses for the U.S. terror regime discriminating, repressing, torturing, terrorizing and massmurdering tenmillions of Muslims for decades including bombing the exact same Muslim groups they pretend to be concerned about right on Chinas border in Afghanistan.


Really...

Let us see you post Eid prayers from this very locations in Kashgar and Urumghi next week.

Prove it there is no issue with actual date and time footage. 

Why did that police fellow follow them, delete all footage of all the mosques? Care to explain? His face is there,

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## fallstuff

denel said:


> For those ccp bots who claim to show fake videos - here is a real one.
> 
> *Where did China's Muslims disappear?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Prayer is forbidden in this city !!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Footage of mosques was deleted even. So much for the bots claims. See footage of 2016 Eid prayers. Let us see if we will even see a footage this years' prayers. No ramadhan allowed either.
> 
> Please watch and pass this along.
> 
> Salams and Ramadhan greetings to all muslims as we get into final week. May our prayers remembers the muslims of china who are in concentration camps and those unable to pray or fast.



These news stories kept coming in for the last 5 years or so.


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## Tamiyah

Globenim said:


> Oh look its the same idiot who went to a heritage site who cant understand shit, but felt free to add fake translations from his handlers he works for and made up some retarded story that people cant pray in mosques in a city full of mosques as damage controll for the U.S. terror regimes fake "mosque razing" stories getting debunked and openly parrots retarded lies by U.S terror regime funded and disseminated Muslim hating literal cross bearing hate preachers on a crusade who insist Muslims and Communists should and will "burn in hell" but somehow is the top source of U.S. terror regimes "human rights concerns" about Muslims, thats getting spammed by the same racists idiots and paid U.S. shills who make excuses for the U.S. terror regime discriminating, repressing, torturing, terrorizing and massmurdering tenmillions of Muslims for decades including bombing the exact same Muslim groups they pretend to be concerned about right on Chinas border in Afghanistan.


You are just crapping about America. Didn't gave a single evidence that proves that prayers are allowed in that city. Brother, you lie to the whole world about the condition of Muslims in China. If you don't show us the evidence

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## hualushui

denel said:


> Let us see if we will even see a footage this years' prayers. No ramadhan allowed either.


Let me tell you this anti-intellectual anti-China person, China not only does not allow Muslims to pray, it also does not allow Christians to pray, and does not allow large gatherings.
*Because of covid-19!
Idiot!    *

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## Tamiyah

hualushui said:


> Let me tell you this anti-intellectual anti-China person, China not only does not allow Muslims to pray, it also does not allow Christians to pray, and does not allow large gatherings.
> *Because of covid-19!
> Idiot!    *


Nice diversion. Brother, COVID came in late late 2019. You guys should have older footage right?

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## Chhatrapati

Maarkhoor said:


> Kindly check again....


Why are Pakistani husbands of Uyghur women not allowed to visit them and have no info on them? Are they in the Human processing centres in China? 








Locked away, forgotten: Muslim Uighur wives of Pakistani men


“They call them schools, but they are prisons,” says Chaudhry Atta who saw his wife over a year ago. “They can’t leave.”



www.dawn.com


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## Maarkhoor

Chhatrapati said:


> Why are Pakistani husbands of Uyghur women not allowed to visit them and have no info on them? Are they in the Human processing centres in China?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Locked away, forgotten: Muslim Uighur wives of Pakistani men
> 
> 
> “They call them schools, but they are prisons,” says Chaudhry Atta who saw his wife over a year ago. “They can’t leave.”
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 742037


Kindly explain below first....








An Indian Girl Beating Army Soldier in Bazaar On Harassing Her - Watch How Respected Indian Army Is


An Indian Girl Beating Army Soldier in Bazaar On Harassing Her - Watch How Respected Indian Army Is



www.unewstv.com

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## Chhatrapati

Maarkhoor said:


> Kindly explain below first....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Indian Girl Beating Army Soldier in Bazaar On Harassing Her - Watch How Respected Indian Army Is
> 
> 
> An Indian Girl Beating Army Soldier in Bazaar On Harassing Her - Watch How Respected Indian Army Is
> 
> 
> 
> www.unewstv.com


Whataboutery is a Commie characteristic. Don't copy them. You need to explain why your own citizens can verify the issues in Xinjiang but the China lovers seem to not care.


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## Maarkhoor

Chhatrapati said:


> Whataboutery is a Commie characteristic. Don't copy them. You need to explain why your own citizens can verify the issues in Xinjiang but the China lovers seem to not care.


Why you care?

Care about your own country, people are dying on roads....Help them...

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## beijingwalker

*Mother's Day Greetings from Xinjiang*
Children in China's Xinjiang send their greetings to their mothers on Mother's Day.


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## Chhatrapati

Maarkhoor said:


> Why you care?
> 
> Care about your own country, people are dying on roads....Help them...


I couldn't care any less about a Pakistani complaining to his government. I simply disagreed with your insinuation that "it's propaganda".

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## -blitzkrieg-

denel said:


> Really...
> 
> Let us see you post Eid prayers from this very locations in Kashgar and Urumghi next week.
> 
> Prove it there is no issue with actual date and time footage.


This is from Id Kah mosque three days ago, people coming out after fajr prayers

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## beijingwalker

*Kashgar Old Town Night Market Xinjiang，Night Walk 4K. Oct 22, 2020 . So many people, Aren't they supposed to be in camps?*

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## Baz2020

Tamiyah said:


> Nice diversion. Brother, COVID came in late late 2019. You guys should have older footage right?


Retaededness at its best. Do something better than playing the western games


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## beijingwalker

*Children in Xinjiang and their dream*

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## denel

-blitzkrieg- said:


> This is from Id Kah mosque three days ago, people coming out after fajr prayers


Really. Please show of actual prayers. where have the people disappeared.

Compare this from 2014.






If you feel that was a biased post; here is actual footage from CCTV itself.






As I noted, please kindly post of this week's eid prayers and last Friday's prayers too.

Also why was footage deleted for all mosques - you can see the police man who was following them.
Same scene of missing people - only a few people vs thousands and overflowing.









Wrecked mosques, police watch: A tense Ramadan in Xinjiang


While Muslims around the world celebrated the end of Ramadan with prayers and festivities this week, the recent destruction of dozens of mosques in Xinjiang highlights the increasing pressure Uighurs and other ethnic minorities face




www.rappler.com






hualushui said:


> Let me tell you this anti-intellectual anti-China person, China not only does not allow Muslims to pray, it also does not allow Christians to pray, and does not allow large gatherings.
> *Because of covid-19!
> Idiot!   *


Since when.... i posted footage from your own CCTV showing how big the eid gatherings were. Now nowhere.

Covi19 - really.


Maarkhoor said:


> Kindly explain below first....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Indian Girl Beating Army Soldier in Bazaar On Harassing Her - Watch How Respected Indian Army Is
> 
> 
> An Indian Girl Beating Army Soldier in Bazaar On Harassing Her - Watch How Respected Indian Army Is
> 
> 
> 
> www.unewstv.com


Please stick to the post vs adopting a diversion tactic. You need to stick to the topic and discuss vs labelling it as propaganda. It is not correct.

If you cannot have anything to state, please leave this thread and do not divert this thread into something totally different.

Salams to you.

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## denel

Tamiyah said:


> Nice diversion. Brother, COVID came in late late 2019. You guys should have older footage right?


Correct; let us see last week's friday prayers or this upcoming Eid prayers. 

Compare it just even to 2014, 2016 footage - it is beyond comprehension what is happening.


Chhatrapati said:


> I couldn't care any less about a Pakistani complaining to his government. I simply disagreed with your insinuation that "it's propaganda".


Unfortunately, the question of conscience is not there. Everything not in the official ccp narrative is seen as propaganda.

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## CAPRICORN-88




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## CAPRICORN-88

_As US Whistle-blower Sibel Edmonts says in her interview, the *Chinese version on Xinjiang is closer to the truth* than the rest from US, Turk or Western media.  _


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## CAPRICORN-88

_This interview with US whistleblower Sibel Edmonds was done 6 years ago. 

That was when all the terrorism in Xinjiang was really hot and ignored completely by the West. 

Now we know the *hidden hands behind all these terrorism.*

Today China has very effectively handle it. 
No a single incidence of theft terrorism.

And so these foreign interventionists are moved to Uyghur slavery and cotton. _

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## denel

*China Targets Muslim Women in Push to Suppress Births in Xinjiang*
Amy Qin



Mon., May 10, 2021, 7:56 a.m.












1 / 2
*NYT*
Outside a bazaar in Kashgar, in the Xinjiang region of China, in 2019. China has moved aggressively to subdue Uyghurs and other Central Asian minorities in the region, including by ramping up enforcement of family planning limits. (Gilles Sabrié for The New York Times)
When the government ordered women in her mostly Muslim community to be fitted with contraceptive devices, Qelbinur Sedik pleaded for an exemption. She was nearly 50 years old, she told officials in Xinjiang. She had obeyed the government’s birth limits and had only one child.
It was no use. The workers threatened to take her to the police if she continued resisting, she said. She gave in and went to a government clinic where a doctor, using metal forceps, inserted an intrauterine device to prevent pregnancy. She wept through the procedure.
“I felt like I was no longer a normal woman,” Sedik said, choking up as she described the 2017 ordeal. “Like I was missing something.”
Sign up for The Morning newsletter from the New York Times
Across much of China, authorities are encouraging women to have more children, as they try to stave off a demographic crisis from a declining birthrate. But in the far western region of Xinjiang, they are forcing them to have fewer, as they tighten their grip on Muslim ethnic minorities.
It is part of a vast and repressive social reengineering campaign by a Communist Party determined to eliminate any perceived challenge to its rule, in this case, ethnic separatism. Over the past few years, the party, under its top leader, Xi Jinping, has moved aggressively to subdue Uyghurs and other Central Asian minorities in Xinjiang, putting hundreds of thousands into internment camps and prisons. Authorities have placed the region under tight surveillance, sent residents to work in factories and placed children in boarding schools.
By targeting Muslim women, the authorities are going even further, attempting to orchestrate a demographic shift that will affect the population for generations. Birthrates in the region have already plunged in recent years, as the use of invasive birth control procedures has risen, findings that were previously documented by a researcher, Adrian Zenz, with The Associated Press.
While authorities have said the procedures are voluntary, interviews with more than a dozen Uyghurs, Kazakhs and other Muslim women and men from Xinjiang, as well as a review of official statistics, government notices and reports in the state-run media, depict a coercive effort by the Chinese Communist Party to control the community’s reproductive rights. Authorities pressured women to use IUDs or get sterilized. As they recuperated at home, government officials were sent to live with them to watch for signs of discontent. One woman described having to endure her minder’s groping.
If they had too many children or refused contraceptive procedures, they faced steep fines or, worse, detention in an internment camp. In the camps, the women were at risk of even more abuse. Some former detainees say they were made to take drugs that stopped their menstrual cycles. One woman said she had been raped in a camp.
To rights advocates and Western officials, the government’s repression in Xinjiang is tantamount to crimes against humanity and genocide, in large part because of the efforts to stem the population growth of Muslim minorities. The Trump administration in January was the first government to declare the crackdown a genocide, with reproductive oppression as a leading reason. The Biden administration affirmed the label in March.
Sedik’s experience, reported in The Guardian and elsewhere, helped form the basis for the decision by the U.S. government. “It was one of the most detailed and compelling first-person accounts we had,” said Kelley E. Currie, a former U.S. ambassador who was involved in the government’s discussions. “It helped to put a face on the horrifying statistics we were seeing.”
Beijing has accused its critics of pushing an anti-China agenda.
The recent declines in the region’s birthrates, the government has said, were the result of authorities’ fully enforcing long-standing birth restrictions. The sterilizations and contraceptive procedures, it said, freed women from backward attitudes about procreation and religion.
“Whether to have birth control or what contraceptive method they choose are completely their own wishes,” Xu Guixiang, a Xinjiang government spokesman, said at a news conference in March. “No one nor any agency shall interfere.”
To women in Xinjiang, the orders from the government were clear: They did not have a choice.
Last year, a community worker in Urumqi, the regional capital, where Sedik had lived, sent messages saying women between 18 and 59 had to submit to pregnancy and birth control inspections.
“If you fight with us at the door and if you refuse to cooperate with us, you will be taken to the police station,” the worker wrote, according to screenshots of the WeChat messages that Sedik shared with The New York Times.
“Do not gamble with your life,” one message read, “don’t even try.”
*‘I Lost All Hope in Myself’*
All her life, Sedik, an ethnic Uzbek, had thought of herself as a model citizen.
After she graduated from college, she married and threw herself into her work, teaching Chinese to Uyghur elementary school students. Mindful of the rules, Sedik did not get pregnant until she had gotten approval from her employer. She had only one child, a daughter, in 1993.
Sedik could have had two children. The rules at the time allowed ethnic minorities to have slightly bigger families than those of the majority Han Chinese ethnic group, particularly in the countryside. The government even awarded Sedik a certificate of honor for staying within the limits.
Then, in 2017, everything changed.
As the government corralled Uyghurs and Kazakhs into mass internment camps, it moved in tandem to ramp up enforcement of birth controls. Sterilization rates in Xinjiang surged by almost sixfold from 2015 to 2018, to just over 60,000 procedures, even as they plummeted around the country, according to calculations by Zenz.
The campaign in Xinjiang is at odds with a broader push by the government since 2015 to encourage births, including by providing tax subsidies and free IUD removals. But from 2015 to 2018, Xinjiang’s share of the country’s total new IUD insertions increased, even as use of the devices fell nationwide.
The contraception campaign appeared to work.
Birthrates in minority-dominated counties in the region plummeted from 2015 to 2018, based on Zenz’s calculations. Several of these counties have stopped publishing population data, but Zenz calculated that the birthrates in minority areas probably continued to fall in 2019 by just over 50% from 2018, based on figures from other counties.
The sharp drop in birthrates in the region was “shocking” and clearly in part a result of the campaign to tighten enforcement of birth control policies, said Wang Feng, a professor of sociology and an expert in Chinese population policies at the University of California, Irvine. But other factors could include a fall in the number of women of childbearing age, later marriages and postponed births, he said.
As the government pushes back against growing criticism, it has withheld some key statistics, including annually published county-level data on birthrates and birth control use for 2019. Other official data for the region as a whole showed a steep drop in IUD insertions and sterilizations that year, though the number of sterilizations was still mostly higher than before the campaign began.
In Beijing’s depiction, the campaign is a victory for the region's Muslim women.
“In the process of deradicalization, some women’s minds have also been liberated,” a January report by a Xinjiang government research center read. “They have avoided the pain of being trapped by extremism and being turned into reproductive tools.”
Women like Sedik, who had obeyed the rules, were not spared. After the IUD procedure, Sedik suffered from heavy bleeding and headaches. She later had the device secretly removed, then reinserted. In 2019, she decided to be sterilized.
“The government had become so strict, and I could no longer take the IUD,’” said Sedik, who now lives in the Netherlands after fleeing China in 2019. “I lost all hope in myself.”
*‘The Women of Xinjiang Are in Danger’*
The penalties for not obeying the government were steep. A Han Chinese woman who violated the birth regulations would face a fine, while a Uyghur or Kazakh woman would face possible detention.
When Gulnar Omirzakh had her third child in 2015, officials in her northern village registered the birth. But three years later, they said she had violated birth limits and owed $2,700 in fines.
Officials said they would detain Omirzakh and her two daughters if she did not pay.
She borrowed money from her relatives. Later, she fled to Kazakhstan.
“The women of Xinjiang are in danger,” Omirzakh said in a telephone interview. “The government wants to replace our people.”
The threat of detention was real.
Three women told The Times they had met other detainees in internment camps who had been locked up for violating birth restrictions.
Dina Nurdybay, a Kazakh woman, said she helped one woman write a letter to the authorities in which she blamed herself for being ignorant and having too many children.
Such accounts are corroborated by a 137-page government document leaked last year from Karakax County, in southwestern Xinjiang, which revealed that one of the most common reasons cited for detention was violating birth planning policies.
Those who refused to terminate illegal pregnancies or pay fines would be referred to the internment camps, according to one government notice from a county in Ili, unearthed by Zenz, the researcher.
Once women disappeared into the region’s internment camps — facilities operated under secrecy — many were subjected to interrogations. For some, the ordeal was worse.
Tursunay Ziyawudun was detained in a camp in Ili prefecture for 10 months for traveling to Kazakhstan. She said that on three occasions, she was taken to a dark cell where two to three masked men raped her and used electric batons to forcibly penetrate her.
“You become their toy,” Ziyawudun said in a telephone interview from the United States, where she now lives, as she broke down sobbing. “You just want to die at the time, but unfortunately you don’t.”
Gulbahar Jalilova, the third former detainee, said in an interview that she had been beaten in a camp and that a guard exposed himself during an interrogation and wanted her to perform oral sex.
The three former detainees, along with two others who spoke to The Times, also described being regularly forced to take unidentified pills or receive injections of medication that caused nausea and fatigue. Eventually, a few of them said, they stopped menstruating.
The former detainees’ accounts could not be independently verified because tight restrictions in Xinjiang make unfettered access to the camps impossible. The Chinese government has forcefully denied all allegations of abuse in the facilities.
“The sexual assault and torture cannot exist,” said Xu, the regional spokesman, at a news briefing in February.
Beijing has sought to undermine the credibility of the women who have spoken out, accusing them of lying and of poor morals, all while claiming to be a champion of women’s rights.
*‘We Are All Chinese’*
Even in their homes, the women did not feel safe. Uninvited Chinese Communist Party cadres would show up and had to be let in.
The party sends out more than a million workers to regularly visit, and sometimes stay in, the homes of Muslims, as part of a campaign called “Pair Up and Become Family.” To many Uyghurs, the cadres were little different from spies.
The cadres were tasked with reporting on whether the families they visited showed signs of “extremist behavior.” For women, this included any resentment they might have felt about state-mandated contraceptive procedures.
When the party cadres came to stay in 2018, Zumret Dawut had just been forcibly sterilized.
Four Han cadres visited her in Urumqi, bringing yogurt and eggs to help with the recovery, she recalled. They were also armed with questions: Did she have any issues with the sterilization operation? Was she dissatisfied with the government’s policy?
“I was so scared that if I said the wrong thing they would send me back to the camps,” said Dawut, a mother of three. “So I just told them, ‘We are all Chinese people and we have to do what the Chinese law says.’”
But the officials’ unwelcome gaze settled also on Dawut’s 11-year-old daughter, she said. One cadre, a 19-year-old man who was assigned to watch the child, would sometimes call Dawut and suggest taking her daughter to his home. She was able to rebuff him with excuses that the child was sick, she said.
Other women reported having to fend off advances even in the company of their husbands.
Sedik, the Uzbek teacher, was still recovering from a sterilization procedure when her “relative” — her husband’s boss — showed up.
She was expected to cook, clean and entertain him even though she was in pain from the operation. Worse, he would ask to hold her hand or to kiss and hug her, she said.
Mostly, Sedik agreed to his requests, terrified that if she refused, he would tell the government that she was an extremist. She rejected him only once: when he asked to sleep with her.
It went on like this every month or so for two years — until she left the country.
“He would say, ‘Don’t you like me? Don’t you love me?’” she recalled. “‘If you refuse me, you are refusing the government.’”
“I felt so humiliated, oppressed and angry,” she said. “But there was nothing I could do.”

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## beijingwalker

Former FBI official interview in 2015 on Xinjiang. "we want to turn Xinjiang into another Taiwan"


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## CAPRICORN-88

*Export-oriented Xinjiang apparel firms eye domestic market amid Western crackdown
Chinese firms need to foster global apparel brands*
By Qi Xijia in Shanghai and Chi Jingyi in Beijing
Published: May 10, 2021 09:34 PM





Xinjiang cotton Photo: VCG

Amid a crackdown by the US and other Western countries on Chinese enterprises based in northwestern Xinjiang, some of the firms have noted that their exports have not been affected much, and in some cases their exports have even risen.

And, other companies based there said that they are actively exploring domestic sales channels, as uncertainties such as the Western crackdown and the pandemic make the Chinese market a priority to avert risks.

The fifth China Brand Day kicked off on Monday in Shanghai and online, with enterprises from all over China participating in the event, including companies from Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region.

Liu Haifeng, CEO of China Colored-Cotton Group, told the Global Times on Monday that at present, the company now focuses on selling in the domestic market, as its export volume has been relatively small.

"The influence of the boycotts of Xinjiang cotton by some Western countries is limited, and our foreign trade has not been greatly affected. South Korea and Japan are two of our major export destinations, and they will remain as our priorities.

"Exports to Europe have dropped slightly," said Liu, adding that due to the support of Chinese consumers at home, the number of orders has increased by more than 20 percent compared with last year.

The company said that it has the largest colored-cotton planting base in China. The output of natural-colored cotton in Xinjiang accounts for 95 percent of the production in China, and about 50 percent in the world.

As some export-oriented Xinjiang enterprises get support from home consumers, they have started to engage in the transition from exports to domestic market promotion. Some Xinjiang enterprises told the Global Times, on condition of anonymity, that they are actively seeking domestic sales channels.

"China's steady economic growth has created a stable market and rising demand. On the contrary, repeated virus outbreaks in many foreign countries have increased uncertainties in foreign trade, and the restriction imposed by some Western countries on Xinjiang cotton has brought uncertainties to the sector. Enterprises moved to promote domestic sales in order to avoid risks," an analyst and investor surnamed Cheng told the Global Times on Monday.

An agricultural enterprise said that it is cooperating with Alibaba's Tmall, one of the largest e-commerce platforms in China, to expand domestic market sales.

A manager of public cotton company in Xinjiang that engages in cotton picking, gathering, cleaning, processing, embossing and packaging, told the Global Times on Monday that the "Xinjiang cotton" issue did not have much negative impact on the company's stock prices, but it did force it to give priority to independent research and development on new products and to seek domestic procurement.

*"Our company has brought to the exhibition one of most high-end cotton pickers in the world. It is 30-40 percent more efficient than ordinary machines, and costs less than two-thirds of the price of its American counterparts, while the performance is almost the same.*

"Now we have mastered more than 90 percent of the key technologies. We will continue to expand the proportion of home-made components and to develop new technologies," said the manager.

He added that domestic orders are on the rise, as buyers realize that uncertainties abroad can affect the supply of cotton-processing equipment and related services. Enterprises in Xinjiang cannot go back to the era when cotton was picked by hand.

The machine-picking rate has exceeded 90 percent in northern Xinjiang, according to data released by the Department of Agriculture and Rural Affairs of Xinjiang. The rate is expected to reach 88 percent in whole Xinjiang this year, said the agriculture ministry.

"The battle over cotton is essentially a battle of economic interests. China is the world's largest consumer and second-largest producer of cotton. By impairing exports of Xinjiang cotton, cotton produced in the US, Australia and other Western countries will have an expanded market," said Wang Chikun, an independent economist.

According to statistics, China produced 5.91 million tons of cotton in 2020, of which Xinjiang produced 5.16 million tons, accounting for 87 percent. China's demand for cotton reached about 8 million tons last year, per statistics from China Cotton Industry Association sent to the Global Times, which means nearly 2 million tons of cotton relied on imports.

"In essence, Western countries' boycott of Xinjiang cotton is the struggle for interests. We must have a clear understanding of this. There is still a big gap between domestic and foreign clothing retail brands.

"Only when our brands are strong in the world, can we have control over the supply chain and not be controlled by others," Wang noted


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## Globenim

Oh look its the same 4 year old or was it already 5 year old fake story recyled by the same Muslim butchering U.S.A. regime propaganda mouthpieces and disseminated by paid U.S.A. shills and racist trolls who hate Muslims just as much as they hate Chinese all over again for the 5th time this month.


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## Chacha_Facebooka

Ummah will start with the west.


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## Suriya




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## UKBengali

Ok, so if this is all fake then let China allow unfettered access to Muslim countries to verify the truth.

China is for sure committing grave human rights abuses in Xinjiang and just because the Jews are doing the same to Palestinians and Indians to Kashmiris does not excuse their behviour.


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## Feng Leng

The days of ethnic minorities being exempted from family planning policies are over. One law fits all.


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## VCheng

Feng Leng said:


> The days of ethnic minorities being exempted from family planning policies are over. One law fits all.



Haven't the family planning policies been recently relaxed to delay the incoming adverse shift in demographics?


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## Feng Leng

VCheng said:


> Haven't the family planning policies been recently relaxed to delay the incoming adverse shift in demographics?


Two is still the limit. That applies to everybody. No exceptions for ethnic minorities anymore.


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## VCheng

Feng Leng said:


> Two is still the limit. That applies to everybody. No exceptions for ethnic minorities anymore.



Will that be enough to avoid the demographic adversity?


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## Feng Leng

VCheng said:


> Will that be enough to avoid the demographic adversity?


No. But a lot of other countries (like Japan) are facing the same thing so maybe it is something we can get used to.


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## VCheng

Feng Leng said:


> No. But a lot of other countries (like Japan) are facing the same thing so maybe it is something we can get used to.



May be yes, but that remains to be seen. It will be a formidable challenge for China indeed.


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## qwerrty

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392689153704296448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392756095110766593

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## CAPRICORN-88

_Why are these suppressed Uyhurs so happy and even dancing in the streets? 
Defy logic. _

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## ozranger

Mahzaib is a Pakistani girl.
Her YouTube Channel

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Not all of them are Uyghurs. Not every Uyghur is a Muslim and not every Muslim in Xinjiang is a Uyghur.


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## CAPRICORN-88

_I saw it over the TV news. It was horrible, the whole high rise apartment collapsed after it was attacked by Israel fighters. 

Hamas attacked Israel first and Israel retaliated but two wrongs do not make one right. 
And the fighting is continuing up till this hour.

For incompetent US Secretary of State Blinken, there is simply no middle path.
His press statement was not helpful at all. 

A hopeless and biased emissary of peace.

Now the arm dealers are having busy times. _

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## CAPRICORN-88

_That is why one must value and appreciate PEACE. Never take it for granted. 

Wars will only bring unwarranted suffering to the innocent civilians. _

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## Beidou2020

US-government funded troll army is missing from this thread.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beidou2020 said:


> US-government funded troll army is missing from this thread.



@aziqbal is banned.

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## Beidou2020

Tai Hai Chen said:


> @aziqbal is banned.



He is not the only one.

Look at Uncensored/Vanguard One.

Many others like him. Part of the digital war.

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## tower9

I'm just going to leave this here: 









Palestinians v. Uyghurs — Naked Western Hypocrisy


For the last few days, Israel has been bombing the heck out of Gaza, just like Israel has done so a few times in the recent past. Missiles and fighter jets have been blowing up schools, apartment c…




worldaffairs.blog

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## ozranger

A bit off-topic. Grassroot Chinese view on Sino-Pakistan relationship.








tower9 said:


> I'm just going to leave this here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians v. Uyghurs — Naked Western Hypocrisy
> 
> 
> For the last few days, Israel has been bombing the heck out of Gaza, just like Israel has done so a few times in the recent past. Missiles and fighter jets have been blowing up schools, apartment c…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> worldaffairs.blog



I was truly disgusted by Andrew Yang's support to Israel.

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## tower9

ozranger said:


> A bit off-topic. Grassroot Chinese view on Sino-Pakistan relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was truly disgusted by Andrew Yang's support to Israel.



I know. I used to support Andrew Yang because I felt like he was one of the few prominent and positive representatives that Asian Americans have. But after his tweet supporting Israel, **** HIM. Siding with a bunch of psychotic genocidal maniacs for personal gain.

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## qwerrty

tower9 said:


> I'm just going to leave this here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians v. Uyghurs — Naked Western Hypocrisy
> 
> 
> For the last few days, Israel has been bombing the heck out of Gaza, just like Israel has done so a few times in the recent past. Missiles and fighter jets have been blowing up schools, apartment c…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> worldaffairs.blog


large fire in holy al aqsa mosque and jews are celebrating. wow..



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1391851115776466951

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## GumNaam

qwerrty said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392689153704296448
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392756095110766593

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## qwerrty

GumNaam said:


>


forced worship in urumqi

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## denel

qwerrty said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392689153704296448
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392756095110766593


Fake posts - all are paid actors - 

- 1. Most are not uighurs there.
- 2. topi/skull caps totally missing.
- 3. actual prayers footage with time stamps missing.

So, please go back and do a good job with undoctored footage


qwerrty said:


> forced worship in urumqi


Fake and forced.

Where are the young ones? Where are men with beards.


qwerrty said:


> in palestine, people celebrating their eid under beautiful america/israel fireworks.
> 
> 
> -


This is a deliberate flame baiting post and thread.

You should be banned permamently.

Reported.

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## Char

denel said:


> Fake posts - all are paid actors -
> 
> - 1. Most are not uighurs there.
> - 2. topi/skull caps totally missing.
> - 3. actual prayers footage with time stamps missing.
> 
> So, please go back and do a good job with undoctored footage
> 
> Fake and forced.
> 
> Where are the young ones? Where are men with beards.
> 
> This is a deliberate flame baiting post and thread.
> 
> You should be banned permamently.
> 
> Reported.



You should also be permanently banned.

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## Char

A poll deleted after 2 hours.

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## tower9

Char said:


> A poll deleted after 2 hours.
> 
> View attachment 743807


The fact that this Taiwanese independence bitch made up this poll just shows how brainwashed and delusional they are. 

Palestinians are living as target practice by Israel, literally. Your family can be blown up at any moment. 

In Xinjiang, Uyghurs live in a heavily politically censored environment but as long as you follow the rules, you can get a good job, have a good living and the state will give your kids a free education and healthcare. 

The fact that she even poses this question just illustrates how totally delusional and insane this dumb bitch is.


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## Char

tower9 said:


> The fact that this Taiwanese independence bitch made up this poll just shows how brainwashed and delusional they are.
> 
> Palestinians are living as target practice by Israel, literally. Your family can be blown up at any moment.
> 
> In Xinjiang, Uyghurs live in a heavily politically censored environment but as long as you follow the rules, you can get a good job, have a good living and the state will give your kids a free education and healthcare.
> 
> The fact that she even poses this question just illustrates how totally delusional and insane this dumb bitch is.



This is not the answer she wants.


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## beijingwalker

Are foreigners vlogging in Xinjiang CCP shills?


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## denel

Char said:


> You should also be permanently banned.


come up with real facts and proper annotated videos first.


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## Goenitz

So she is a Pakistani girl showing a functional mosque in China (not Xinjiang), but in central Chinese city, Lanzhou.
So what can we get out of it @denel @Indos @aziqbal and @striver44

I argue that before that Chinese are traditional people who respect their parents, women, etc. I hope all the news of Chinese officials sleeping with Uighur/Uigyur women is not true as it seems fictional. Because, west know how to stir Muslims sentiments on women/religion etc. They also know how to pave their own people point of view on freedom/women empowerment. So west publish different stories in their own country and in the Muslim world. 

I know Chinese from my personal experience from my stay in Italy/UK that they are hard working and love family values. They can be tough on policy, but not barbarians as west paints them.

However, Chinese govt them selves publish news in Turkish/Eng/Urdu/Arabic about Uighur celebrating Eid Festival/Ramadan in Xinjiang. As if a little or no news come out, people tend to believe the enemy propaganda.

@Beast @beijingwalker @IblinI

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## Beast

All major mosques in China are opened during Eid Festive.

Btw, this Pakistanis girl is very beautiful.

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## denel

Goenitz said:


> So she is a Pakistani girl showing a functional mosque in China (not Xinjiang), but in central Chinese city, Lanzhou.
> So what can we get out of it @denel @Indos @aziqbal and @striver44
> 
> I argue that before that Chinese are traditional people who respect their parents, women, etc. I hope all the news of Chinese officials sleeping with Uighur/Uigyur women is not true as it seems fictional. Because, west know how to stir Muslims sentiments on women/religion etc. They also know how to pave their own people point of view on freedom/women empowerment. So west publish different stories in their own country and in the Muslim world.
> 
> I know Chinese from my personal experience from my stay in Italy/UK that they are hard working and love family values. They can be tough on policy, but not barbarians as west paints them.
> 
> However, Chinese govt them selves publish news in Turkish/Eng/Urdu/Arabic about Uighur celebrating Eid Festival/Ramadan in Xinjiang. As if a little or no news come out, people tend to believe the enemy propaganda.
> 
> @Beast @beijingwalker @IblinI


I suggest you take a trip up to Turkestan yourself and see. Take footage of mosques - you will have a policeman follow you and have the footage deleted.

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## Goenitz

denel said:


> I suggest you take a trip up to Turkestan yourself and see. Take footage of mosques - you will have a policeman follow you and have the footage deleted.


That will be another first hand experience, but if I were rich, I wd have done so. But my interactions with Chinese is totally different. They admit that govt censor things a lot, but they are traditional people. They respect elders and women. They also help each other like they are relatives.


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## xuxu1457

In fact, not only in Xinjiang or Ningxia, but also in other regions, there are Muslim communities. Eid al-Fitr in Yunnan Muslim community.

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## denel

Goenitz said:


> That will be another first hand experience, but if I were rich, I wd have done so. But my interactions with Chinese is totally different. They admit that govt censor things a lot, but they are traditional people. They respect elders and women. They also help each other like they are relatives.


Yes they do; chinese civilians are different; it is the policy of their communist party which is at play here especially under Xi; they have gone hell bent against religion.

I suggest you look up the prior posts which i did, moderators convinently put it into the overloaded Uighur thread to hide it - you will see 2 videos by a blogger - there mosques are empty; a police fellow is following him and then deletes his footage; he is accompanied by a Chinese minder as well. Everything is clearly labelled. 

Have a look for yourself.

As my good chinese friends have said - this included former 1st secretary to the consulate who is a close family friends - 'We chinese are cowards when it comes to our government'. These are his exact words. He is very true.

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## Goenitz

denel said:


> I suggest you look up the prior posts which i did, moderators convinently put it into the overloaded Uighur thread to hide it - you will see 2 videos by a blogger - there mosques are empty; a police fellow is following him and then deletes his footage; he is accompanied by a Chinese minder as well. Everything is clearly labelled.


Yeah, I watched your threads. That is why in my post I said that Lanzhou is not in Xinjiang and a little or no news is coming from Xinjiang which adds to doubts..
So, Chineses Govt should publish/broadcast themselves news/coverage from Xinjiang about mosques/Muslims celebrating their festivals. 

Anyway, I hope relaxation and normalisation may follow soon in Xinjiang.


----------



## Indos

Goenitz said:


> So she is a Pakistani girl showing a functional mosque in China (not Xinjiang), but in central Chinese city, Lanzhou.
> So what can we get out of it @denel @Indos @aziqbal and @striver44
> 
> I argue that before that Chinese are traditional people who respect their parents, women, etc. I hope all the news of Chinese officials sleeping with Uighur/Uigyur women is not true as it seems fictional. Because, west know how to stir Muslims sentiments on women/religion etc. They also know how to pave their own people point of view on freedom/women empowerment. So west publish different stories in their own country and in the Muslim world.
> 
> I know Chinese from my personal experience from my stay in Italy/UK that they are hard working and love family values. They can be tough on policy, but not barbarians as west paints them.
> 
> However, Chinese govt them selves publish news in Turkish/Eng/Urdu/Arabic about Uighur celebrating Eid Festival/Ramadan in Xinjiang. As if a little or no news come out, people tend to believe the enemy propaganda.
> 
> @Beast @beijingwalker @IblinI



Chinese gov do good with China Muslim community but Xi Jin Ping piss off with recent Uigyur terrorist attack, so the condition is different, my mother and sister have also visited China for vacation late 2019 but not Xin Jiang.

We dont know for sure what happened there since China gov limit access in Xin Jiang to any Muslim fact finding mission.

At least we can heard some from Uigyur refugess and this Indonesian girl dont talk nice about China gov treatment on Uigyur, and latest Idul Fitri prayer in Xin Jiang can be done due to pressure form Western countries, so you must thank them that have concern on our Muslim brothers and sisters despite we should be critical as well to their accusation






You can contact ACT Indonesia since they are objective NGO who will not talk lies and has connection with Uigyur refugee community in Turkey






The sterilization program is happening, our Chinese Indonesian friend @Reashot Xigwin who can read Mandarin has found the China government document talking about the program

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## Goenitz

Indos said:


> Xi Jin Ping piss off with recent Uigyur terrorist attack


Yeah that is the reason, but the west supplied them the weapons at first place. We know how RAW and CIA tried to disturb our northern and western regions. Just because they can create lawlessness and create a training ground for separatists in China.


Indos said:


> China gov treatment on Uigyur, and latest Idul Fitri prayer in Xin Jiang can be done due to pressure form Western countries


Sure, if western countries are raising the voice for Uighur, then it is a blessing. If they are not raising for Palestinians, which is a hypocrisy, but their choice. 


Indos said:


> The sterilization program is happening


I can only pray it is not true. If yes, then I hope that central govt realise that it is not a solution. The injustice memory travels through generations and erupt later somewhere else.


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## Indos

Goenitz said:


> Yeah that is the reason, but the west supplied them the weapons at first place. We know how RAW and CIA tried to disturb our northern and western regions. Just because they can create lawlessness and create a training ground for separatists in China.
> 
> Sure, if western countries are raising the voice for Uighur, then it is a blessing. If they are not raising for Palestinians, which is a hypocrisy, but their choice.
> 
> I can only pray it is not true. If yes, then I hope that central govt realise that it is not a solution. The injustice memory travels through generations and erupt later somewhere else.











自治区卫生健康委员会机关及直属（管）单位2019年度部门预算及“三公经费”信息公开报告-新疆维吾尔自治区卫生健康委员会


archived 15 Apr 2020 15:42:24 UTC




archive.fo













巴音郭楞蒙古自治州人民政府网站


archived 1 Apr 2020 19:55:41 UTC




archive.fo

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## Goenitz

@Indos 
I had a quick look on the links..
It talks about very diplomatically about birth control, women and baby safety. I hope, it is not a mass sterilisation campaign.


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## Indos

Goenitz said:


> @Indos
> I had a quick look on the links..
> It talks about very diplomatically about birth control, women and baby safety. I hope, it is not a mass sterilisation campaign.



Of course, who will be too fool to say it bluntly and name the program as sterilization campaign in the official government program document ??

At least the program show correlation with huge drop on XinJiang birth rate

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## -blitzkrieg-

denel said:


> Really. Please show of actual prayers. where have the people disappeared.
> 
> Compare this from 2014.


three days back on eid day at the same id kah mosque


----------



## -blitzkrieg-

denel said:


> Yes they do; chinese civilians are different; it is the policy of their communist party which is at play here especially under Xi; they have gone hell bent against religion.
> 
> I suggest you look up the prior posts which i did, moderators convinently put it into the overloaded Uighur thread to hide it - you will see 2 videos by a blogger - there mosques are empty; a police fellow is following him and then deletes his footage; he is accompanied by a Chinese minder as well. Everything is clearly labelled.
> 
> Have a look for yourself.
> 
> As my good chinese friends have said - this included former 1st secretary to the consulate who is a close family friends - 'We chinese are cowards when it comes to our government'. These are his exact words. He is very true.


i replied you in that thread with a video of muslims attending mosque during Ramadan to which you said i have nothing to show for eid.
here you go, the video from this eid

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## beijingwalker

denel said:


> I suggest you take a trip up to Turkestan yourself and see. Take footage of mosques - you will have a policeman follow you and have the footage deleted.


Where are the police as you claimed? when was the last time you were in Xinjiang?







Indos said:


> Of course, who will be too fool to say it bluntly and name the program as sterilization campaign in the official government program document ??
> 
> At least the program show correlation with huge drop on XinJiang birth rate
> 
> View attachment 744308


Why XInjiang's birth rate is twice as high comparing to China's average? are you suggesting that the Chinese government has been persecuting Han Chinese all these years?

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang is completely back to normal and covid free, Kashgar girls invite tourists back to Kashgar old town.


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## Reashot Xigwin

-blitzkrieg- said:


> i replied you in that thread with a video of muslims attending mosque during Ramadan to which you said i have nothing to show for eid.
> here you go, the video from this eid



Just because people are dancing doesn't mean they're happy. This is why I never understand chinese propaganda & their use of dancing uighur in their propaganda push. Is this a mainland chinese things that you have to be a part of to understand? 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392417690183213058
The CCP even uses dancing in their propaganda film. Beside obvious propaganda being obvious who the hell do they think they're fooling with this?







beijingwalker said:


> Where are the police as you claimed? when was the last time you were in Xinjiang?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why XInjiang's birth rate is twice as high comparing to China's average? are you suggesting that the Chinese government has been persecuting Han Chinese all these years?



Uighur Birthrates literally dropped by half in 2018 in the span of one year. I don't know why are you even gaslighting when literally your government own sources confirm this

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## denel

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Just because people are dancing doesn't mean they're happy. This is why I never understand chinese propaganda & their use of dancing uighur in their propaganda push. Is this a mainland chinese things that you have to be a part of to understand?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392417690183213058
> The CCP even uses dancing in their propaganda film. Beside obvious propaganda being obvious who the hell do they think they're fooling with this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uighur Birthrates literally dropped by half in 2018 in the span of one year. I don't know why are you even gaslighting when literally your government own sources confirm this


Well put, did we see the full prayers; also literally all have no beards; most dont even wear caps - it is a compulsory tradition - the ccp bots forgot i guess. where are the children? Not seen. It is very possible these are paid actors to stage a potemkin scene for the outside world.

The dancing is fake as well. Where is the videos from Urumqi or smaller cities? None.

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## Globenim

Indos said:


> The sterilization program is happening, our Chinese Indonesian friend @Reashot Xigwin who can read Mandarin has found the China government document talking about the program


That shill didnt find crap

Hes just parotting a precooked U.S. state propaganda mouthpiece *lie* aggressively spread by U.S. shills and U.S. regime run media mouthpices, *inventend *by some evangelical bible thumbing Nazi apologist called Adrian Zenz who hates Muslims as much as Chinese and who is paid by the U.S. regime and U.S. military to lie about China for at least a decade.
Its the same fake researcher who made dumb lies about China "paying" Muslims to pray in front of tourists and China "forcing" Muslims and teens to celebrate Eid, lied about Uighur messages being hidden in shoes actually Made in Vietnam and used Google Translate to invent another "Chinese data exposing China" story of forced labour based on a completely false translations of laudable Chinese proverbs,

Hes simply *lying *while waving completely uncontrovesial Chinese data around that you can find in public healthcare data all over the world including the U.S.A. who pays these liars in first place. The document proves absolutely nothing about this sterilization program story the U.S. regime invented which is about forced sterilization targeting minorites. to produce more fake reasons to cyncically accuse a country rivaling the U.S.A of genocide. The usual attrocity propaganda program by the biggest warcriminal and most genocidal country in history, the U.S.A..

The only thing the public data proves is that China has a working healthcare system and that it is bringing *he exact same medical standards and services as all more developed Chinese regions already* *have *also to Xinjiang. The only reason how these liars even could spin data for medical procedures completely normal in the country funding these lies itself and turn them into yet another big "Chinese attrocity" lie to discredit the Chinese government and create concent for U.S. support of terrorism and discrimination of Chinese, is by not just obviously spinning and pulling *relative *numbers out of the context that Xinjiang simply had as a remote region had less medical service access beforehand and deliberately omitting old and absolute numbers about Xinjiang and other regions that contradict the entire story, but also simply faking numbers they claim to have cited from these documents. Like turning 8% growth rates over years to 80%. The original U.S. state propaganda report *before it was debunked as clompete bullshit* was claiming something as stupid as everyone effecively being sterilized half a dozen times every day. They even lied when covering up the most blatant "mistakes" that completely discredit this story "based on Chinese data" like "errors" of magninute of 10, adding fake edit dates into the past into the doument so it looks like it had been long corrected.

Of course it all doesnt matter how wrong it is. The point is making the accussations, when the goal is to dehumanize and demonize a country rivaling the U.S. regime. Wether debunked or not the damage is done and seeds for doubt as planted. Just like the incubator baby stories for Iraq and the baby rape stories for Cuba and the rape stories for Lybia by the precedessors of the same "independent" CIA agents and U.S. governemnt "journalists" and "experts. They just have to continously pretend they stilll have any shred of credence or moral authority to judge China and never been exposed as liars. Just like that YouTuber who pulled off the usual editing and fake translations tricks to lie about nobody being able to pray in Mosques in some Chinese city while passing by a dozen Mosques open to pray, who already exposed himself parotting lies directly from nobody less than the U.S. government paid propagandist Adrian Zenz, that these shills still spam like they still have a point talking about that fraud. Or like that photo of a smiling Han Chinese migrant worker granny in the cotton fields from a documentation about automatition of jobs, cynically hiding her face and suggesting shes a Uighur forced slave worker 5 times a day.


----------



## beijingwalker

*May 13, Kashgar, Xinjiang, China People celebrate Eid al-Fitr with family and friends*

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## Char

Indos said:


> Chinese gov do good with China Muslim community but Xi Jin Ping piss off with recent Uigyur terrorist attack, so the condition is different, my mother and sister have also visited China for vacation late 2019 but not Xin Jiang.
> 
> We dont know for sure what happened there since China gov limit access in Xin Jiang to any Muslim fact finding mission.
> 
> At least we can heard some from Uigyur refugess and this Indonesian girl dont talk nice about China gov treatment on Uigyur, and latest Idul Fitri prayer in Xin Jiang can be done due to pressure form Western countries, so you must thank them that have concern on our Muslim brothers and sisters despite we should be critical as well to their accusation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can contact ACT Indonesia since they are objective NGO who will not talk lies and has connection with Uigyur refugee community in Turkey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sterilization program is happening, our Chinese Indonesian friend @Reashot Xigwin who can read Mandarin has found the China government document talking about the program



There is family planning in Xinjiang, which started later than the other places and is not as strict as the other places. This is not because they are Muslims, but because they are Chinese.


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## charene514

The birth rate across the western Chinese region of Xinjiang, home to many of the country’s repressed Uighur minority, has almost halved amid accusations of genocide against the community.

Such an extreme decline is unprecedented in the 71 years that the UN has been collecting global fertility statistics, and is even larger than falls in birth rates during the Syrian civil war and genocides in Rwanda and Cambodia, according to Nathan Ruser, an author of a report by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, a think tank.









Plunge in Uighur birthrate ‘supports genocide claims’


The birth rate across the western Chinese region of Xinjiang, home to many of the country’s repressed Uighur minority, has almost halved amid accusations of




www.thetimes.co.uk

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## Beast

I guess this forumer need to read the forum rules for this thread And I am sure he will act ignorant and continue flout forum rules.

@waz @LeGenD @krash 

I think action need to be taken against this forumer.





__





ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.


Let me tell you this anti-intellectual anti-China person, China not only does not allow Muslims to pray, it also does not allow Christians to pray, and does not allow large gatherings. Because of covid-19! Idiot! :omghaha: :omghaha: :omghaha: Nice diversion. Brother, COVID came in late late...



defence.pk

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## Vapnope

Or reduction in birth rate..


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## -blitzkrieg-

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Just because people are dancing doesn't mean they're happy. This is why I never understand chinese propaganda & their use of dancing uighur in their propaganda push. Is this a mainland chinese things that you have to be a part of to understand?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392417690183213058
> The CCP even uses dancing in their propaganda film. Beside obvious propaganda being obvious who the hell do they think they're fooling with this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uighur Birthrates literally dropped by half in 2018 in the span of one year. I don't know why are you even gaslighting when literally your government own sources confirm this


lol. lame.... atleast stick to one thing its either Chinese forcing muslims away from their religion or forcing them to practice their religion. Cant be both at the same time..
As for the practice , its more of a rehearsal to make sure of the security arrangements done so that your people dont walk in and blow themselves.

Nobody can force thousands of people to gather and celeberate.they have been doing this over decades.....And assuming you are right that they are all forced to dance then i dont think a person who can forcefully be made to dance really deserves any freedom.

You have actually lost the Uygur argument, its time for you to pack up your bags and find something better to defend.


----------



## Numerous

Vapnope said:


> Or reduction in birth rate..



I doubt it, Muslims tend to have higher than average birth rates compared to most other people. If true then it's unlikely it fell just naturally. It's not like China is not an expert in forcing people to not have kids. They destroyed their own demographics with that 1 child rubbish.


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## Vapnope

Numerous said:


> I doubt it, Muslims tend to have higher than average birth rates compared to most other people. If true then it's unlikely it fell just naturally. It's not like China is not an expert in forcing people to not have kids. They destroyed their own demographics with that 1 child rubbish.


Can be ascertained by their statement that "muslim women are no longer baby making machines". Maybe one child policy worked here as well.


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## charene514

Vapnope said:


> Can be ascertained by their statement that "muslim women are no longer baby making machines". Maybe one child policy worked here as well.



Ideally should not be the case ! since the one child rule was restricted to urban areas of china only ! 

Xinjiang should have seen a growth !!


----------



## Vapnope

charene514 said:


> Ideally should not be the case ! since the one child rule was restricted to urban areas of china only !
> 
> Xinjiang should have seen a growth !!


I don't think Chinese would have allowed it in rural areas as well. Unless we have a concrete evidence, we can speculate all we want.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang's birth rate is still twice as high as China's average, clear manifestation of China's decades old minority preferential policies.

China's overall birthrate also dropped significantly. Average Uighur families have 4 to 5 children while Hans have just one, before people living in border regions were very poor and children grew up to 12 or 13 and started to help their families and contributed to the family income, older children can also took care of younger siblings, so the more children , the better for the family.

But in recent couples of years, living standard in those regions skyrocketed, almost every child now can go to college, it means children won't be able to help their families financially at least until they are in their early 20's, and during these years families have to support the children all the way from kingdergarten to college and even beyond. Most families now can't afford having many children, the same is also true to eastern regions, but because birthrate in eastern region is already very low, the drop is not as significant. Now families just can't afford having many babies and so Chinese scholars suggest the government pay 1 million Yuan for each new born baby.

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## Reashot Xigwin

-blitzkrieg- said:


> lol. lame.... atleast stick to one thing its either Chinese forcing muslims away from their religion or forcing them to practice their religion. Cant be both at the same time..
> As for the practice , its more of a rehearsal to make sure of the security arrangements done so that your people dont walk in and blow themselves.
> 
> Nobody can force thousands of people to gather and celeberate.they have been doing this over decades.....And assuming you are right that they are all forced to dance then i dont think a person who can forcefully be made to dance really deserves any freedom.
> 
> You have actually lost the Uygur argument, its time for you to pack up your bags and find something better to defend.



Forgive for being a non muslim so I might have a lack of knowledge concerning this, but since when Iftar is performed by clapping hands while singing a communist propaganda songs during prayers. While banning children below 18 to join the prayer? Also besides there's no beard & other Uyghur cultural identifiers while the area around the mosques are littered with Han chinese like red paper lantern among other things & communist regalias. You might be justified in your concern that maybe the communist is lying about religious freedom in Xinjiang.

Whose losing who's argument? It's the communist side that needs to make a blatant propaganda disguised as a movie to hide human rights issue. Which mind you only makes them SUS as hell.

Stop strawmanning the argument and let international observers inside the country after all the CCP did nothing wrong according to you, so you should have no problem with it.

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## -blitzkrieg-

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Forgive for being a non muslim so I might have a lack of knowledge concerning this, but since when Iftar is performed by clapping hands while singing a communist propaganda songs during prayers. While banning children below 18 to join the prayer? Also besides there's no beard & other Uyghur cultural identifiers while the area around the mosques are littered with Han chinese like red paper lantern among other things & communist regalias. You might be justified in your concern that maybe the communist is lying about religious freedom in Xinjiang.
> 
> Whose losing who's argument? It's the communist side that needs to make a blatant propaganda disguised as a movie to hide human rights issue. Which mind you only makes them SUS as hell.
> 
> Stop strawmanning the argument and let international observers inside the country after all the CCP did nothing wrong according to you, so you should have no problem with it.


im sure the world Uygur congress would be face-palming in distress after reading what you wrote.
whodafuq told you they are clapping to break iftar on an EID DAY? and who told u they are chanting a pro-ccp song? How do you know a boy walking in is under or over 18?
BHUHAHAHA
just stop it now ,stop embarrassing yourself


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## Reashot Xigwin

-blitzkrieg- said:


> im sure the world Uygur congress would be face-palming in shame they have you defending them..
> whodafuq told you they are clapping to break iftar on an EID DAY? and who told u they are chanting a pro-ccp song? How do you know a boy walking in is under or over 18?
> BHUHAHAHA
> just stop it know ,stop embarrassing yourself




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392748452203859975
Don't messed with the guy that actually has done some research into this & actually have more than 10 tabs on the ready for any kind of counter arguments.

Nah man these guy done better to defending the Uyghur than me. I heard he is quite famous in the state.

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## Beast

Some are working hard to divert the Muslim anger at US for it shameless support of Israel bombing of Palestine.

Don't fall for their trick, those barking hard for Uyghur Muslim never even say a single word for Palestine and Kashmir Muslim. Yet they bark hard asking PDF here for so called fabricate Uyghur Muslim genocide sympathy.

Check out @Reashot Xigwin and @denel past week posting which never say a single word for Palestine Muslim and never say a word of condemnation against Uncle Sam. More or less tells you their crocodile tear for their selective Muslim

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## -blitzkrieg-

Reashot Xigwin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392748452203859975
> Don't messed with the guy that actually has done some research into this & actually have more than 10 tabs on the ready for any kind of counter arguments.
> 
> Nah man these guy done better to defending the Uyghur than me. I heard he is quite famous in the state.


its their national anthem
Arise, ye who refuse to be slaves!
With our flesh and blood, let us build a new Great Wall!
As China faces her greatest peril,
From each one the urgent call to action comes forth.
Arise! Arise! Arise!
Millions of but one heart
Braving the enemies' fire! March on!
Braving the enemies' fire! March on!
March on! March, march on!

where is the "propaganda" in above?

i wont mind reading my country's anthem before starting my day or daily at school or outside a mosque before entering for eid prayers. those who dont want to read will still not read and stand in silence....Again its one of the steps their state is doing to suppress sub nationalism they are putting up chinese flags anthems and architecture not just at mosque but multiple other places...they have every right to suppress a sub national group like east turkestan, tibet, inner mongolia or hongkong that you guys fund

ps. Chinese are not the most hairy people to have beards so you will find most of them with fewer face hair.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Beast said:


> Some are working hard to divert the Muslim anger at US for it shameless support of Israel bombing of Palestine.
> 
> Don't fall for their trick, those barking hard for Uyghur Muslim never even say a single word for Palestine and Kashmir Muslim. Yet they bark hard asking PDF here for so called fabricate Uyghur Muslim genocide sympathy.
> 
> Check out @Reashot Xigwin and @denel past week posting which never say a single word for Palestine Muslim and never say a word of condemnation against Uncle Sam. More or less tells you their crocodile tear for their selective Muslim



That's because we have to deal with your constant bullshit Propaganda about the Uyghur.

Here let me show you where I stand on the whole Israel & Palestine. F ISRAEL F EM TO DEATH & F THE US FOR SUPPORTING ISRAEL!!! 

You see the difference is I actually support the Palestine & Uyghur causes you chinese really don't not really. You only sees the Palestine Kashmir issues as a cynical attempt to divert the attention away from your own genocide. Cause if you do actually support them you would see your own hypocrisy.


-blitzkrieg- said:


> its their national anthem
> Arise, ye who refuse to be slaves!
> With our flesh and blood, let us build a new Great Wall!
> As China faces her greatest peril,
> From each one the urgent call to action comes forth.
> Arise! Arise! Arise!
> Millions of but one heart
> Braving the enemies' fire! March on!
> Braving the enemies' fire! March on!
> March on! March, march on!
> 
> where is the "propaganda" in above?
> 
> i wont mind reading my country's anthem before starting my day or daily at school or outside a mosque before entering for eid prayers. those who dont want to read will still not read and stand in silence....Again its one of the steps their state is doing to suppress sub nationalism they are putting up chinese flags anthems and architecture not just at mosque but multiple other places...they have every right to suppress a sub national group like east turkestan, tibet, inner mongolia or hongkong that you guys fund
> 
> ps. Chinese are not the most hairy people to have beards so you will find most of them with fewer face hair.



& u don't see something wrong with this somehow?

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## Rafi

Don't trust the Yankee pig-dogs. They don't say anything about the israeks but always crying about China, been to all over China they have their problems, but overall Muslims are doing well there.


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## denel

Reashot Xigwin said:


> That's because we have to deal with your constant bullshit Propaganda about the Uyghur.
> 
> Here let me show you where I stand on the whole Israel & Palestine. F ISRAEL F EM TO DEATH & F THE US FOR SUPPORTING ISRAEL!!!
> 
> You see the difference is I actually support the Palestine & Uyghur causes you chinese really don't not really. You only sees the Palestine Kashmir issues as a cynical attempt to divert the attention away from your own genocide. Cause if you do actually support them you would see your own hypocrisy.
> 
> 
> & u don't see something wrong with this somehow?


It is unreal to see the hipocracy especially from fellow muslims who cannot see the obvious.

These folks will go around and around in circle; remember they are here for a particular business of promoting their kak fake news. Can you imagine - they even had the balls .. yes balls to post tomato sauce is red; hence if you get the drift; CCP is red, tomato is red, therefore tomato is communist and it was invented by Glorious Mao ... or Emperor Xi.

Man, i sometime find it hilarious... really... they need to go on KCNA propaganda 101 English course for fire and fury response. Kimmy babz minions do a better job in their language oratory skills.

agh... sigh... they still wont take up my work offer - free board and room plus meals including better pay than what they get now for 1 year contract.

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## lonelyman

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395620548802011136

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## AViet

Free speech, in the West's opinion, means free to speech what are in line with the West's rhetoric. It has always been like that.

You can be "free" to say what you do not like about your governments, for example: they are not honest, they are corrupt (just like we can do in Vietnam), but if you say, even very slightly, that you want the government to be communist like China and Vietnam, your mouth will be shut forever.

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## lonelyman

AViet said:


> Free speech, in the West's opinion, means free to speech what are in line with the West's rhetoric. It has always been like that.
> 
> You can "free" to say what you do not like about your governments, for example: they are not honest, they are corrupt (just like we can do in Vietnam), but if you say, even very slightly, that you want the government to be communist like China and Vietnam, your mouth will be shut forever.



Exactly, if you question the bullshit story and ask evidence for so called 'genocide', they get pissed and block your account

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## Beast

Hypocrisy of western system. Anybody claim western system are free. media are transparent and real democratic ,need to get their head check.

Western give you choice to vote but the end result is always control by the very elite. They give you a free media but only want you to hear what they want you to. Freedom is on the surface only.

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## IceCold

Freedom of speech is only there when it suits the Western hypocrisy. Otherwise it becomes antisemitism.

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## Rafi

Freedom of speech, what hypocrisy these companies toe the US government line.

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## kuge

one word: all human govs are hypocrites & self serving


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## Char

lonelyman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395620548802011136



You have to make fake news with me!

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## Feng Leng

The American government is afraid of two little girls

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## That Guy

Twitter is banned in China, so this is highly suspicious.

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## lonelyman

That Guy said:


> Twitter is banned in China, so this is highly suspicious.



ever heard of VPN?

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## That Guy

lonelyman said:


> every heard of VPN?


Sure, but that doesn't really change my point. Unless I see so.e sort of evidence that they were banned for the reasons claimed in the tweet, I will maintain a healthy dose of skepticism.


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## lonelyman

That Guy said:


> Sure, but that doesn't really change my point. Unless I see so.e sort of evidence that they were banned for the reasons claimed in the tweet, I will maintain a healthy dose of skepticism.



after your reason has been debunked, resort to "I just don't believe"  

west double standards and fake news are well documented, do some basic research on all pro-xinjiang have been banned to push the 'genocide' narrative

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## That Guy

lonelyman said:


> after your reason has been debunked, resort to "I just don't believe"
> 
> west double standards and fake news are well documented, do some basic research on all pro-xinjiang have been banned to push the 'genocide' narrative


You didn't really debunk me, you said VPN could have been used, and I acknowledged that. But it still doesn't mean anything.

Anyway, I'm not interested in your conspiracy theories, and your attempt to spread misinformation.

Good luck with your attemps, I'm sure you'll be able to convince people with less than common sense.

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## FairAndUnbiased

That Guy said:


> You didn't really debunk me, you said VPN could have been used, and I acknowledged that. But it still doesn't mean anything.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not interested in your conspiracy theories, and your attempt to spread misinformation.
> 
> Good luck with your attemps, I'm sure you'll be able to convince people with less than common sense.



you act like you have some power, like we depend on your belief for something. who do you think you are?

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## lonelyman

FairAndUnbiased said:


> you act like you have some power, like we depend on your belief for something. who do you think you are?



like his opinion matters  


That Guy said:


> You didn't really debunk me, you said VPN could have been used, and I acknowledged that. But it still doesn't mean anything.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not interested in your conspiracy theories, and your attempt to spread misinformation.
> 
> Good luck with your attemps, I'm sure you'll be able to convince people with less than common sense.



who is spread misinformation by banning other side?

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## That Guy

FairAndUnbiased said:


> you act like you have some power, like we depend on your belief for something. who do you think you are?


Lol, that's just you projecting.

Besides, this is a forum, I'm allowed to express my opinion.


lonelyman said:


> like his opinion matters
> 
> 
> who is spread misinformation by banning other side?


You'd have a point if Twitter wasn't banned in China...or you actually had evidence of your claim.

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## dbc

Feng Leng said:


> The American government is afraid of two little girls



Twitter has nothing to do with the American government. I know the Chinese believe the government is omnipotent while this is true in China it isn't true in the US.

Twitter can suspend accounts for violation of its terms of use. One such violation is the use of bots to aggressively increase followers - a tactic typical used by influencers. There are literally thousands of pro China/ anti US twitter accounts that aren't suspended.

Do you have any proof that Twitter suspended these to curtail freedom of speech?

Edit:
Jingjing Li works for CGTN - now it all makes sense.









Li Jingjing


Li Jingjing - Star - CGTN




www.cgtn.com

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## powastick

dbc said:


> Twitter has nothing to do with the American government. I know the Chinese believe the government is omnipotent while this is true in China it isn't true in the US.
> 
> Twitter can suspend accounts for violation of its terms of use. One such violation is the use of bots to aggressively increase followers - a tactic typical used by influencers. There are literally thousands of pro China/ anti US twitter accounts that aren't suspended.
> 
> Do you have any proof that Twitter suspended these to curtail freedom of speech?


It always been, Twitter, Reddit and Facebook are the same, banning certain groups from fear of repercussion from US government(Trump) and even Indian government(Farmers protest). Twitter restored anti-China banned accounts after detecting unnatural behavior, proving that these big tech are beholden to US government agencies. They are tools, if it gets uncomfortable, US government can choose who and what can say. Remember Trump? They are not independent as they seem. I reckon you know the story with Reddit?

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## dbc

powastick said:


> It always been, Twitter, Reddit and Facebook are the same, banning certain groups from fear of repercussion from US government(Trump) and even Indian government(Farmers protest). Twitter restored anti-China banned accounts after detecting unnatural behavior, proving that these big tech are beholden to US government agencies. They are tools, if it gets uncomfortable, US government can choose who and what can say. Remember Trump? They are not independent as they seem. I reckon you know the story with Reddit?



Twitter is obliged by Indian laws to remove any content from Indian viewers that the Indian government deems unlawful. Failure to do so will result in the prosecution of Twitter employees in India.
In India, the government has the power to censor internet content from anyone living in India.
So yes there is no freedom of speech in India.

In the US, the government has no such powers only the courts do.

Do you have any evidence to prove..

1. Twitter suspended these accounts to censor the content
2. The US government compelled Twitter to block this account?

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## powastick

dbc said:


> Twitter is obliged by Indian laws to remove any content from Indian viewers that the Indian government deems unlawful. Failure to do so will result in the prosecution of Twitter employees in India.
> In India the government has the power to censor internet content in India.
> So yes there is no freedom of speech in India.
> 
> In the US, the government has no such powers only the courts do.
> 
> Do you have any evidence to prove..
> 
> 1. Twitter suspended these accounts to censor the content
> 2. The US government compelled Twitter to block this account?


Not everything is done over the surface, most are done with back channel. But twitter is hard to prove, but other social media are using cannaries, and the cannaries has stopped chirping. Thus proving US involvement in social media.

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## Dungeness

LOL, "You can have any color you want as long as it is black".

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## Hamartia Antidote

That Guy said:


> Twitter is banned in China, so this is highly suspicious.



They risk going to jail if caught posting something the Chinese government doesn't like. So you know everything they do and say has to be greenlighted beforehand.








Twitter Users in China Face Detention and Threats in New Beijing Crackdown (Published 2019)


Authorities are using harsh methods to target people posting criticism of the government on a social media platform that is blocked in the country, extending online censorship beyond China’s borders.




www.nytimes.com

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## Reashot Xigwin

LOL those 2 "uighur girl" are obvious propaganda bots. How do I know?

1. You can't go to youtube from China unless you use a VPN (same with pk defense) & using VPN is punishable in China, so that means they have government permission because if not that mean there's 2 opening in a concentration camp near them.

2. They claim to be from Uighur but their youtube site are listed in Hong Kong, most likely in order to get monetized but still the claim of just showing people how beautiful Xinjiang is already suspicious.

3. They were followed immediately by CCP higher ups and even higher ups from CGTN on twitter. So there's already a red flag right there.

4. Is just an opinion of mine but they don't look normal their movements and mannerism looks forced and they look like they are just reading a cue cards from behind the camera. 

Here's their video & a fair warning though it's cringe





If you want to follow a good Uyghur account that's not a propaganda here's one:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392722062326763522


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL those 2 "uighur girl" are obvious propaganda bots. How do I know?
> 
> 1. You can't go to youtube from China unless you use a VPN (same with pk defense) & using VPN is punishable in China, so that means they have government permission because if not that mean there's 2 opening in a concentration camp near them.
> 
> 2. They claim to be from Uighur but their youtube site are listed in Hong Kong, most likely in order to get monetized but still the claim of just showing people how beautiful Xinjiang is already suspicious.
> 
> 3. They were followed immediately by CCP higher ups and even higher ups from CGTN on twitter. So there's already a red flag right there.
> 
> 4. Is just an opinion of mine but they don't look normal their movements and mannerism looks forced and they look like they are just reading a cue cards from behind the camera.
> 
> Here's their video & a fair warning though it's cringe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to follow a good Uyghur account that's not a propaganda here's one:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392722062326763522


Everything accept Ccp media is banned in communist paradise China. In contrast almost every western media is allowed in communist Vietnam. Just a comparison.
However chinese are never tired to spew shit on western media.


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## Char

Viet said:


> Everything accept Ccp media is banned in communist paradise China. In contrast almost every western media is allowed in communist Vietnam. Just a comparison.
> However chinese are never tired to spew shit on western media.



Is it something to be proud of to let the public opinion of your country be controlled by the Americans?

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## Char

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL those 2 "uighur girl" are obvious propaganda bots. How do I know?
> 
> 1. You can't go to youtube from China unless you use a VPN (same with pk defense) & using VPN is punishable in China, so that means they have government permission because if not that mean there's 2 opening in a concentration camp near them.
> 
> 2. They claim to be from Uighur but their youtube site are listed in Hong Kong, most likely in order to get monetized but still the claim of just showing people how beautiful Xinjiang is already suspicious.
> 
> 3. They were followed immediately by CCP higher ups and even higher ups from CGTN on twitter. So there's already a red flag right there.
> 
> 4. Is just an opinion of mine but they don't look normal their movements and mannerism looks forced and they look like they are just reading a cue cards from behind the camera.
> 
> Here's their video & a fair warning though it's cringe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to follow a good Uyghur account that's not a propaganda here's one:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392722062326763522



Google used to operate in China, but they did not want to abide by Chinese laws and left. Twitter and Facebook can also operate in China, provided that they comply with Chinese laws.

You can also think of these two girls as propaganda, but they are telling real stories, not making fake news. 

The West is educating the Uyghurs that they do not really care about the Uyghurs but want to use the Uyghurs as a tool to cause trouble for China. This is more effective than the education of the Chinese Communist Party.

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## Viet

Char said:


> Is it something to be proud of to let the public opinion of your country be controlled by the Americans?


Well, In VN the government thinks every citizen has a brain to decide by their own what’s right what’s wrong. In CN the government thinks citizens have no brain hence they decide what’s the right choice.

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## Char

Viet said:


> Well, In VN the government thinks every citizen has a brain to decide by their own what’s right what’s wrong. In CN the government thinks citizens have no brain hence they decide what’s the right choice.



Not every leader in the government has a brain, let alone ordinary people, Like you.


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## Viet

Char said:


> Not every leader in the government has a brain, let alone ordinary people, Like you.


But at least we take own fate by own hands, be good or bad. Well, you not. You let someone decide for you, eat or die.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Char said:


> Google used to operate in China, but they did not want to abide by Chinese laws and left. Twitter and Facebook can also operate in China, provided that they comply with Chinese laws.
> 
> You can also think of these two girls as propaganda, but they are telling real stories, not making fake news.
> 
> The West is educating the Uyghurs that they do not really care about the Uyghurs but want to use the Uyghurs as a tool to cause trouble for China. This is more effective than the education of the Chinese Communist Party.



Ironic because the 2 makes nothing but fake news. 

I think wanting the Uyghur to not being ethnically genocided is a moral position than anything.


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## jamahir

Reashot Xigwin said:


> If you want to follow a good Uyghur account that's not a propaganda here's one:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392722062326763522



Come on, that tweet itself proves that his account is Western government propaganda.

I am a Muslim, don't have beard, am leftist but am critical of Chinese political and economic system ( which is not truly communist ) and am also critical of Western political and economic systems. As I said, the tweet is Western government propaganda.


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## huckyang

The West is not is the moral position to talk. Too much blood in their hands. Killing the red Indians, Australian aboriginal people and steal their land. And later killed so many Muslim in Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc. Now trying to play holy.

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## huckyang

And texas and california is also stolen from Mexico. 

And same goes with Hawaii. In fact the entire country is formed by stealing and killing. 



https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/native-hawaiians-again-seek-political-sovereignty-with-a-new-constitution/2017/11/05/833842d2-b905-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html

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## denel

That Guy said:


> Twitter is banned in China, so this is highly suspicious.


man these fake CCP posts are getting beyond obsurd; portrayal of potemkin village; they dont realise how blatently obvious it is.


huckyang said:


> The West is not is the moral position to talk. Too much blood in their hands. Killing the red Indians, Australian aboriginal people and steal their land. And later killed so many Muslim in Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc. Now trying to play holy.



Two wrongs dont make right. You are doing exactly what west does; should we have to remind you of millions that Mao killed? 

I suggest if you have the balls for truth; open a Truth and Reconciliation Forum;

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## newb3e

freedom of speech,human rights, freedom are all bs western tools! it was with the help of these tools west normalized and legitimized killing of millions of Muslims! 

so **** their standards!

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## INDIAPOSITIVE

*China operates an estimated 1,200 concentration camps in its Xinjiang province*
*Three million members of the Kazakh and Uyghur ethnic minorities are interned*
*Prisoners are raped, beaten and tortured and organs are likely harvested for sale*
*Sayragul Sauytbay was incarcerated as a teacher at one of the camps for months*
*After fleeing Xinjiang for Kazakhstan she has written a book about what she saw*


A survivor of one of China's modern-day concentration camps has revealed the beatings, rapes and 'disappearances' she witnessed behind the barbed wire. 

Sayragul Sauytbay was born in China's north-western province and trained as a doctor before being appointed a senior civil servant.

As a Kazakh she belonged to one of China's ethnic minorities who lived in what was known as East Turkestan until it was annexed and renamed Xinjiang by Mao Zedong in 1949.

The mother-of-two's life was upended in November 2017 when she was ordered into a concentration camp to teach prisoners, mostly Kazakhs and Uyghurs, in one of the region's estimated 1,200 gulags. 










A survivor of one of China's barbaric modern-day concentration camps has revealed the beatings, rapes and 'disappearances' she witnessed behind the barbed wire. Members of the Uyghur ethnic minority are pictured in a camp in Lop County, Xinjiang, in April 2017







Working from witness statements, teacher Sayragul Sauytbay made a sketch to illustrate how detainees are tortured in underground water prisons. Shackled at the wrists, they spend weeks with their bodies immersed in dirty water







The internment camps are estimated to house three million Kazakhs and Uyghurs who are subjected to medical experiments, rape and torture. Pictured is a watchtower at what is believed to be a 'red-education camp' on the outskirts of Xingiang



The internment camps of Xinjiang are estimated to house three million Kazakhs and Uyghurs who are subjected to medical experiments, torture and rape.

International observers believe China is trying to exterminate ethnic minorities. China says the camps are 'vocational training centres' and residents are there of their own free will. 


Sauytbay was put to work in one of these camps 're-educating' inmates in Chinese language, culture and politics. 

She has now bravely exposed the barbaric system in The Chief Witness: Escape From China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps, written with journalist Alexandra Cavelius. 

Inmates had their heads shaved and stank of sweat, urine and faeces as they were kept in cramped conditions and allowed to shower once or twice a month. 






+14


Sayragul Sauytbay (pictured) has written about her experiences in a book called The Chief Witness: Escape From China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps with journalist Alexandra Cavelius. The 44-eyar-old is physically broken and has nightmares about her time in the gulag




Sauytbay saw evidence of organ harvesting and recounts an 84-year-old woman having her fingernails pulled out after she denied making an international phone call. 

She was made to watch guards pack-rape a woman in her early 20s after she had confessed to texting Muslim holiday greetings a friend when she was in Year 9.

Sauytbay was literally forced to sign her own death warrant, agreeing she would face the death penalty if she revealed what happened in the prison or broke any rule. 

During her internment Sauytbay also gained access to secret information that revealed the Communist Party's long-term plans to undermine its minorities and democracies around the world.

Among the state secrets she read in papers stamped 'Classified Documents from Beijing' was the real purpose of the Xinjiang camps as outlined in a three-step plan. 




Step one for 2014–2015 was to 'assimilate those who are willing in Xinjiang, and eliminate those who are not.' 

Step two (2025–2035): 'After assimilation within China is complete, neighbouring countries will be annexed.'

Step three (2035–2055): 'After the realisation of the Chinese dream comes the occupation of Europe.'

After her release in March 2018, Sauytbay escaped from Xinjiang into Kazakhstan where she was reunited with her husband and children before fleeing to Sweden.

Having revealed what Sauytbay describes as 'the biggest systematic incarceration of a single ethnic group since the Third Reich', she still lives with the constant threat of reprisals. 

Sauytbay, now 44, is physically broken and has nightmares about her time in the gulag, hearing tortured prisoners scream out 'save us, please save us' in her sleep.

The following is an edited extract from The Chief Witness: Escape from China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps by Sayragul Sauytbay and Alexandra Cavelius. Published by Scribe ($35). 

HARVESTING 'HALAL' HUMAN ORGANS

They paid special attention in the medical department to the files of young, strong people. These were treated differently and marked with a red X. At first, I was so naïve - only later did I wonder why they always earmarked the files of fundamentally healthy people.

Had they preselected these individuals for organ harvesting? Organs that doctors would later remove without consent? It was simply a fact that the Party took organs from prisoners.

Several clinics in East Turkestan traded in organs. In Altai, for instance, it was common knowledge that lots of Arabs preferred the organs of fellow Muslims, because they considered them 'halal'. Perhaps, I thought, they were trading in kidneys, hearts, and usable body parts at the camp as well?

After a while, I realised that these young, healthy inmates were disappearing overnight, whisked away by the guards, even though their point scores hadn't dropped. When I checked later, I realised to my horror that all their medical files were marked with a red X.













Sauytbay saw evidence of organ harvesting, witnessed countless prisoners 'disappear' and recounts an 84-year-old woman having her fingernails pulled out. Pictured is the Artux City Vocational Skills Education Training Service Centre north of Kashgar in the Xinjiang region
'THE RAW CRIES OF A DYING ANIMAL'

I was on sentry duty till one in the morning. At midnight, I had to stand in my assigned spot in the vast hall for an hour. Sometimes we would switch sides with the other sentries.

We were always positioned behind a line drawn on the floor. On rare occasions there would be a few inmates lined up there, too, but there would always be a guard by each of them. 'We cannot under any circumstances allow a break-out!' they insisted. Not that escape seemed likely. All of the doors had multiple locks. Nobody was ever getting out.

I'd never heard anything like it in all my life. Screams like that aren't something you forget 
If, by some chance, one of the prisoners did manage to escape, they continued, we were not to let the news spread around the camp.

I stared at the glass-walled guardhouse opposite. Behind it was the stairwell. I had quickly realised that there must be several lower levels, because administrative staff often took ages fetching things from 'the bottom floor', even when they were ordered to hurry.

The stairwell was also near the 'black room', where they tortured people in the most abominable ways. After two or three days at the camp, I heard the screams for the first time, resonating throughout the enormous hall and seeping into every pore of my body. I felt like I was teetering on the edge of some dizzying chasm.

I'd never heard anything like it in all my life. Screams like that aren't something you forget. The second you hear them, you know what kind of agony that person is experiencing. They sounded like the raw cries of a dying animal.





MAKING THE DEAD DISAPPEAR

I've described one type of confidential document already - the type that ended up crumbling into ash. But some controversial subject matter wasn't intended for teaching, so they took a different approach. Not even the guards in the room were allowed to know what these documents contained, and thus one night I found myself standing motionless in a small office, silently reading Instruction 21.

Here, too, officers observed my facial expressions, trying to work out how I was reacting to the contents. But I'd learned my lesson. No matter how appalling the message, my face betrayed no response.

'All those who die in the camp must vanish without a trace.' There it was, as plain as day, in bald, official jargon, as though they were talking about disposing of spoiled food. There should be no visible signs of torture on the bodies. When a prisoner was killed, or died in some other way, it had to be kept absolutely secret. Any evidence, proof, or documentation was to be immediately destroyed. Taking photos or video recordings of the corpses was strictly forbidden. Family members were supposed to be fobbed off with vague excuses as to the manner of death; and in certain cases, they explained, it was advisable simply never to mention they had died at all.




'THE BLACK ROOM' TORTURE CHAMBER

During 'class', I noticed a number of prisoners groaning and scratching themselves until they bled. I couldn't tell if they were genuinely ill or had gone mad. As my mouth opened and closed - I was barely even listening to myself talk about our self-sacrificing patriarch Xi Jinping, who 'passes on the warmth of love with his hands' - several of the 'students' collapsed unconscious and fell off their plastic chairs.

Many inmates, bound at the wrists and ankles, they strapped into chairs that had nails sticking out of the seats
In threatening situations, human beings have a kind of switch in our brains that functions like a fuse in an electrical circuit. As soon as the level of anguish we're experiencing exceeds the capacity of our senses, we simply switch off: to stop us going out of our minds with fear, we lose consciousness in extremis.

When this happened, the guards would summon their colleagues outside, who rushed in, grabbed the unconscious person by both arms, and dragged them away like a doll, their feet trailing across the floor. But they didn't just take the unconscious, the sick, and the mad. Suddenly, the door would spring open, and heavily armed men would thunder into the room. For no reason at all. Sometimes it was simply because a prisoner hadn't understood one of the guard's orders, issued in Chinese.






+14


The Chief Witness: Escape from China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps by Sayragul Sauytbay and Alexandra Cavelius. Published by Scribe ($35)
These people were among the unluckiest in the camp. I could see in their eyes how they felt - that raging storm of pain and suffering. Hearing their screams and cries for help in the corridors afterwards made our blood freeze in our veins, and brought us to the verge of panic. They were drawn-out, constant, virtually unbearable. There was no more sorrowful sound.

I saw with my own eyes the various instruments of torture in the 'black room'. The chains on the wall. Many inmates, bound at the wrists and ankles, they strapped into chairs that had nails sticking out of the seats. Many of the people they tortured never came back out of that room - others stumbled out, covered in blood.





PULLING OUT FINGERNAILS AND TOENAILS 

The space, roughly twenty metres square, looked a bit like a darkroom. A messy black strip about thirty centimetres wide had been painted on the wall just above the floor, as though someone had smeared it with mud. In the middle was a table three or four metres long, crammed with all kinds of tools and torture devices. Tasers and police cudgels in various shapes and sizes: thick, thin, long, and short. Iron rods used to fix the hands and feet in agonising positions behind a person's back, designed to inflict the maximum possible pain.

The walls, too, were hung with weapons and implements that looked like they were from the Middle Ages
The walls, too, were hung with weapons and implements that looked like they were from the Middle Ages. Implements used to pull out fingernails and toenails, and a long stick - a bit like a spear - that had been sharpened like a dagger at one end. They used it for jabbing into a person's flesh.

Along one side of the room was a row of chairs designed for different purposes. Electric chairs and metal chairs with bars and straps to stop the victim moving; iron chairs with holes in the back so that the arms could be twisted back above the shoulder joint. My gaze wandered across the walls and floor. Rough cement. Grey and dirty, revolting and confusing - as though evil itself was squatting in that room, feeding on our pain. I was certain I would die before dawn.

The Chief Witness: Escape from China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps by Sayragul Sauytbay and Alexandra Cavelius. Published by Scribe ($35).











Survivor of China's modern-day concentration camps reveals the horror


Sayragul Sauytbay was snatched at gunpoint by police in November 2017 and forced into a Xinjiang gulag to teach fellow ethnic minorities Chinese language, culture and politics.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Beast

Lol... I wonder how much she got for writing such sensational story?

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## maverick1977

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> *China operates an estimated 1,200 concentration camps in its Xinjiang province*
> *Three million members of the Kazakh and Uyghur ethnic minorities are interned*
> *Prisoners are raped, beaten and tortured and organs are likely harvested for sale*
> *Sayragul Sauytbay was incarcerated as a teacher at one of the camps for months*
> *After fleeing Xinjiang for Kazakhstan she has written a book about what she saw*
> 
> 
> A survivor of one of China's modern-day concentration camps has revealed the beatings, rapes and 'disappearances' she witnessed behind the barbed wire.
> 
> Sayragul Sauytbay was born in China's north-western province and trained as a doctor before being appointed a senior civil servant.
> 
> As a Kazakh she belonged to one of China's ethnic minorities who lived in what was known as East Turkestan until it was annexed and renamed Xinjiang by Mao Zedong in 1949.
> 
> The mother-of-two's life was upended in November 2017 when she was ordered into a concentration camp to teach prisoners, mostly Kazakhs and Uyghurs, in one of the region's estimated 1,200 gulags.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A survivor of one of China's barbaric modern-day concentration camps has revealed the beatings, rapes and 'disappearances' she witnessed behind the barbed wire. Members of the Uyghur ethnic minority are pictured in a camp in Lop County, Xinjiang, in April 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working from witness statements, teacher Sayragul Sauytbay made a sketch to illustrate how detainees are tortured in underground water prisons. Shackled at the wrists, they spend weeks with their bodies immersed in dirty water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The internment camps are estimated to house three million Kazakhs and Uyghurs who are subjected to medical experiments, rape and torture. Pictured is a watchtower at what is believed to be a 'red-education camp' on the outskirts of Xingiang
> 
> 
> 
> The internment camps of Xinjiang are estimated to house three million Kazakhs and Uyghurs who are subjected to medical experiments, torture and rape.
> 
> International observers believe China is trying to exterminate ethnic minorities. China says the camps are 'vocational training centres' and residents are there of their own free will.
> 
> 
> Sauytbay was put to work in one of these camps 're-educating' inmates in Chinese language, culture and politics.
> 
> She has now bravely exposed the barbaric system in The Chief Witness: Escape From China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps, written with journalist Alexandra Cavelius.
> 
> Inmates had their heads shaved and stank of sweat, urine and faeces as they were kept in cramped conditions and allowed to shower once or twice a month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +14
> 
> 
> Sayragul Sauytbay (pictured) has written about her experiences in a book called The Chief Witness: Escape From China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps with journalist Alexandra Cavelius. The 44-eyar-old is physically broken and has nightmares about her time in the gulag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sauytbay saw evidence of organ harvesting and recounts an 84-year-old woman having her fingernails pulled out after she denied making an international phone call.
> 
> She was made to watch guards pack-rape a woman in her early 20s after she had confessed to texting Muslim holiday greetings a friend when she was in Year 9.
> 
> Sauytbay was literally forced to sign her own death warrant, agreeing she would face the death penalty if she revealed what happened in the prison or broke any rule.
> 
> During her internment Sauytbay also gained access to secret information that revealed the Communist Party's long-term plans to undermine its minorities and democracies around the world.
> 
> Among the state secrets she read in papers stamped 'Classified Documents from Beijing' was the real purpose of the Xinjiang camps as outlined in a three-step plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Step one for 2014–2015 was to 'assimilate those who are willing in Xinjiang, and eliminate those who are not.'
> 
> Step two (2025–2035): 'After assimilation within China is complete, neighbouring countries will be annexed.'
> 
> Step three (2035–2055): 'After the realisation of the Chinese dream comes the occupation of Europe.'
> 
> After her release in March 2018, Sauytbay escaped from Xinjiang into Kazakhstan where she was reunited with her husband and children before fleeing to Sweden.
> 
> Having revealed what Sauytbay describes as 'the biggest systematic incarceration of a single ethnic group since the Third Reich', she still lives with the constant threat of reprisals.
> 
> Sauytbay, now 44, is physically broken and has nightmares about her time in the gulag, hearing tortured prisoners scream out 'save us, please save us' in her sleep.
> 
> The following is an edited extract from The Chief Witness: Escape from China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps by Sayragul Sauytbay and Alexandra Cavelius. Published by Scribe ($35).
> 
> HARVESTING 'HALAL' HUMAN ORGANS
> 
> They paid special attention in the medical department to the files of young, strong people. These were treated differently and marked with a red X. At first, I was so naïve - only later did I wonder why they always earmarked the files of fundamentally healthy people.
> 
> Had they preselected these individuals for organ harvesting? Organs that doctors would later remove without consent? It was simply a fact that the Party took organs from prisoners.
> 
> Several clinics in East Turkestan traded in organs. In Altai, for instance, it was common knowledge that lots of Arabs preferred the organs of fellow Muslims, because they considered them 'halal'. Perhaps, I thought, they were trading in kidneys, hearts, and usable body parts at the camp as well?
> 
> After a while, I realised that these young, healthy inmates were disappearing overnight, whisked away by the guards, even though their point scores hadn't dropped. When I checked later, I realised to my horror that all their medical files were marked with a red X.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sauytbay saw evidence of organ harvesting, witnessed countless prisoners 'disappear' and recounts an 84-year-old woman having her fingernails pulled out. Pictured is the Artux City Vocational Skills Education Training Service Centre north of Kashgar in the Xinjiang region
> 'THE RAW CRIES OF A DYING ANIMAL'
> 
> I was on sentry duty till one in the morning. At midnight, I had to stand in my assigned spot in the vast hall for an hour. Sometimes we would switch sides with the other sentries.
> 
> We were always positioned behind a line drawn on the floor. On rare occasions there would be a few inmates lined up there, too, but there would always be a guard by each of them. 'We cannot under any circumstances allow a break-out!' they insisted. Not that escape seemed likely. All of the doors had multiple locks. Nobody was ever getting out.
> 
> I'd never heard anything like it in all my life. Screams like that aren't something you forget
> If, by some chance, one of the prisoners did manage to escape, they continued, we were not to let the news spread around the camp.
> 
> I stared at the glass-walled guardhouse opposite. Behind it was the stairwell. I had quickly realised that there must be several lower levels, because administrative staff often took ages fetching things from 'the bottom floor', even when they were ordered to hurry.
> 
> The stairwell was also near the 'black room', where they tortured people in the most abominable ways. After two or three days at the camp, I heard the screams for the first time, resonating throughout the enormous hall and seeping into every pore of my body. I felt like I was teetering on the edge of some dizzying chasm.
> 
> I'd never heard anything like it in all my life. Screams like that aren't something you forget. The second you hear them, you know what kind of agony that person is experiencing. They sounded like the raw cries of a dying animal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MAKING THE DEAD DISAPPEAR
> 
> I've described one type of confidential document already - the type that ended up crumbling into ash. But some controversial subject matter wasn't intended for teaching, so they took a different approach. Not even the guards in the room were allowed to know what these documents contained, and thus one night I found myself standing motionless in a small office, silently reading Instruction 21.
> 
> Here, too, officers observed my facial expressions, trying to work out how I was reacting to the contents. But I'd learned my lesson. No matter how appalling the message, my face betrayed no response.
> 
> 'All those who die in the camp must vanish without a trace.' There it was, as plain as day, in bald, official jargon, as though they were talking about disposing of spoiled food. There should be no visible signs of torture on the bodies. When a prisoner was killed, or died in some other way, it had to be kept absolutely secret. Any evidence, proof, or documentation was to be immediately destroyed. Taking photos or video recordings of the corpses was strictly forbidden. Family members were supposed to be fobbed off with vague excuses as to the manner of death; and in certain cases, they explained, it was advisable simply never to mention they had died at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'THE BLACK ROOM' TORTURE CHAMBER
> 
> During 'class', I noticed a number of prisoners groaning and scratching themselves until they bled. I couldn't tell if they were genuinely ill or had gone mad. As my mouth opened and closed - I was barely even listening to myself talk about our self-sacrificing patriarch Xi Jinping, who 'passes on the warmth of love with his hands' - several of the 'students' collapsed unconscious and fell off their plastic chairs.
> 
> Many inmates, bound at the wrists and ankles, they strapped into chairs that had nails sticking out of the seats
> In threatening situations, human beings have a kind of switch in our brains that functions like a fuse in an electrical circuit. As soon as the level of anguish we're experiencing exceeds the capacity of our senses, we simply switch off: to stop us going out of our minds with fear, we lose consciousness in extremis.
> 
> When this happened, the guards would summon their colleagues outside, who rushed in, grabbed the unconscious person by both arms, and dragged them away like a doll, their feet trailing across the floor. But they didn't just take the unconscious, the sick, and the mad. Suddenly, the door would spring open, and heavily armed men would thunder into the room. For no reason at all. Sometimes it was simply because a prisoner hadn't understood one of the guard's orders, issued in Chinese.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +14
> 
> 
> The Chief Witness: Escape from China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps by Sayragul Sauytbay and Alexandra Cavelius. Published by Scribe ($35)
> These people were among the unluckiest in the camp. I could see in their eyes how they felt - that raging storm of pain and suffering. Hearing their screams and cries for help in the corridors afterwards made our blood freeze in our veins, and brought us to the verge of panic. They were drawn-out, constant, virtually unbearable. There was no more sorrowful sound.
> 
> I saw with my own eyes the various instruments of torture in the 'black room'. The chains on the wall. Many inmates, bound at the wrists and ankles, they strapped into chairs that had nails sticking out of the seats. Many of the people they tortured never came back out of that room - others stumbled out, covered in blood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PULLING OUT FINGERNAILS AND TOENAILS
> 
> The space, roughly twenty metres square, looked a bit like a darkroom. A messy black strip about thirty centimetres wide had been painted on the wall just above the floor, as though someone had smeared it with mud. In the middle was a table three or four metres long, crammed with all kinds of tools and torture devices. Tasers and police cudgels in various shapes and sizes: thick, thin, long, and short. Iron rods used to fix the hands and feet in agonising positions behind a person's back, designed to inflict the maximum possible pain.
> 
> The walls, too, were hung with weapons and implements that looked like they were from the Middle Ages
> The walls, too, were hung with weapons and implements that looked like they were from the Middle Ages. Implements used to pull out fingernails and toenails, and a long stick - a bit like a spear - that had been sharpened like a dagger at one end. They used it for jabbing into a person's flesh.
> 
> Along one side of the room was a row of chairs designed for different purposes. Electric chairs and metal chairs with bars and straps to stop the victim moving; iron chairs with holes in the back so that the arms could be twisted back above the shoulder joint. My gaze wandered across the walls and floor. Rough cement. Grey and dirty, revolting and confusing - as though evil itself was squatting in that room, feeding on our pain. I was certain I would die before dawn.
> 
> The Chief Witness: Escape from China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps by Sayragul Sauytbay and Alexandra Cavelius. Published by Scribe ($35).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Survivor of China's modern-day concentration camps reveals the horror
> 
> 
> Sayragul Sauytbay was snatched at gunpoint by police in November 2017 and forced into a Xinjiang gulag to teach fellow ethnic minorities Chinese language, culture and politics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk



The humanitarians.. they feel the pain for others more than their own. lol,

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Clutch

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> The Chief Witness: Escape from China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps by Sayragul Sauytbay and Alexandra Cavelius. Published by Scribe ($35)



Lol.. she doesn't even look Muslim... Why would China want to oppress her for being Muslim???

She looks pretty well fed... What was she put into?.. a fattening concentration camp???

It's all fake news.

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## FairAndUnbiased

I'm surprised she provided her photo.






Contrast to real proven Nazi concentration camp victims:






Something seem off to you?

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## GumNaam

ah yes, alas, no propagandiarreah would be complete without that cliche "glaring out into the open horizon" stare pic! gotta have that, othewise no one would by that shit! I mean c'mon...she's staring into the sunset in front of the ocean waves people, must be telling the truth, riiiiiiiiight?

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## kankan326

I'm more interested in the details about how she ecaped from that concentration camp and China. Please don't tell me she left China by using regular passport and taking airline. That doesn't sound like "escape" at all.

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## PakFactor

Beast said:


> Lol... I wonder how much she got for writing such sensational story?



It’s a bunch of garage. You can clearly see the West trying the old tactic of using Muslims to fight there war. We already made a mistake with USSR took the world from multi polar to uni polar — never again. Chinas rise must never be stopped as we need another super power to counter western ambitions.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## X-ray Papa

PakFactor said:


> need another super power to counter western ambitions.


Sir, why cant the another super power be a muslim country.


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## AViet

How come this kind of bullshit fake news are still being allowed to post here?

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## redtom

I can draw better. How much money can I get?

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## hualushui

kankan326 said:


> I'm more interested in the details about how she ecaped from that concentration camp and China. Please don't tell me she left China by using regular passport and taking airline. That doesn't sound like "escape" at all.










X-ray Papa said:


> Sir, why cant the another super power be a muslim country.


which one？

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## powastick

This is a concentration camp.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## hualushui

A woman who was tortured and raped was allowed to leave the country through an ordinary passport and then published a book to scold the government.
I don’t know if the European and American governments are so stupid, but I know that the Chinese government will certainly* not* be so stupid.   

The biggest problem with Western media is that they think that citizens of other countries are as stupid as citizens of their own country. They think that Chinese are as stupid as Europeans and Americans.

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## X-ray Papa

hualushui said:


> which one？


Iran, Saudi, and Pakistan
All these countries can be a superpower only if they want to be.

Iran and Pakistan, to be fair they got USA and Supa powa India keeping them busy.


----------



## hualushui

X-ray Papa said:


> Iran, Saudi, and Pakistan
> All these countries can be a superpower only if they want to be.
> 
> Iran and Pakistan, to be fair they got USA and Supa powa India keeping them busy.


Small population, small area, small GDP, small military power, small national influence
They will not be enough to become a superpower in the next 20 years.


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## powastick

hualushui said:


> Small population, small area, small GDP, small military power, small national influence
> They will not be enough to become a superpower in the next 20 years.


Iran maybe, Pakistan no way. Saudi is just oil wealth. Isreal, US and Arabs knows Iran has the strongest potential in the region, that is why they are being contained.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Whitefalcon90

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> *China operates an estimated 1,200 concentration camps in its Xinjiang province*
> *Three million members of the Kazakh and Uyghur ethnic minorities are interned*
> *Prisoners are raped, beaten and tortured and organs are likely harvested for sale*
> *Sayragul Sauytbay was incarcerated as a teacher at one of the camps for months*
> *After fleeing Xinjiang for Kazakhstan she has written a book about what she saw*
> 
> 
> A survivor of one of China's modern-day concentration camps has revealed the beatings, rapes and 'disappearances' she witnessed behind the barbed wire.
> 
> Sayragul Sauytbay was born in China's north-western province and trained as a doctor before being appointed a senior civil servant.
> 
> As a Kazakh she belonged to one of China's ethnic minorities who lived in what was known as East Turkestan until it was annexed and renamed Xinjiang by Mao Zedong in 1949.
> 
> The mother-of-two's life was upended in November 2017 when she was ordered into a concentration camp to teach prisoners, mostly Kazakhs and Uyghurs, in one of the region's estimated 1,200 gulags.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A survivor of one of China's barbaric modern-day concentration camps has revealed the beatings, rapes and 'disappearances' she witnessed behind the barbed wire. Members of the Uyghur ethnic minority are pictured in a camp in Lop County, Xinjiang, in April 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working from witness statements, teacher Sayragul Sauytbay made a sketch to illustrate how detainees are tortured in underground water prisons. Shackled at the wrists, they spend weeks with their bodies immersed in dirty water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The internment camps are estimated to house three million Kazakhs and Uyghurs who are subjected to medical experiments, rape and torture. Pictured is a watchtower at what is believed to be a 'red-education camp' on the outskirts of Xingiang
> 
> 
> 
> The internment camps of Xinjiang are estimated to house three million Kazakhs and Uyghurs who are subjected to medical experiments, torture and rape.
> 
> International observers believe China is trying to exterminate ethnic minorities. China says the camps are 'vocational training centres' and residents are there of their own free will.
> 
> 
> Sauytbay was put to work in one of these camps 're-educating' inmates in Chinese language, culture and politics.
> 
> She has now bravely exposed the barbaric system in The Chief Witness: Escape From China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps, written with journalist Alexandra Cavelius.
> 
> Inmates had their heads shaved and stank of sweat, urine and faeces as they were kept in cramped conditions and allowed to shower once or twice a month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +14
> 
> 
> Sayragul Sauytbay (pictured) has written about her experiences in a book called The Chief Witness: Escape From China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps with journalist Alexandra Cavelius. The 44-eyar-old is physically broken and has nightmares about her time in the gulag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sauytbay saw evidence of organ harvesting and recounts an 84-year-old woman having her fingernails pulled out after she denied making an international phone call.
> 
> She was made to watch guards pack-rape a woman in her early 20s after she had confessed to texting Muslim holiday greetings a friend when she was in Year 9.
> 
> Sauytbay was literally forced to sign her own death warrant, agreeing she would face the death penalty if she revealed what happened in the prison or broke any rule.
> 
> During her internment Sauytbay also gained access to secret information that revealed the Communist Party's long-term plans to undermine its minorities and democracies around the world.
> 
> Among the state secrets she read in papers stamped 'Classified Documents from Beijing' was the real purpose of the Xinjiang camps as outlined in a three-step plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Step one for 2014–2015 was to 'assimilate those who are willing in Xinjiang, and eliminate those who are not.'
> 
> Step two (2025–2035): 'After assimilation within China is complete, neighbouring countries will be annexed.'
> 
> Step three (2035–2055): 'After the realisation of the Chinese dream comes the occupation of Europe.'
> 
> After her release in March 2018, Sauytbay escaped from Xinjiang into Kazakhstan where she was reunited with her husband and children before fleeing to Sweden.
> 
> Having revealed what Sauytbay describes as 'the biggest systematic incarceration of a single ethnic group since the Third Reich', she still lives with the constant threat of reprisals.
> 
> Sauytbay, now 44, is physically broken and has nightmares about her time in the gulag, hearing tortured prisoners scream out 'save us, please save us' in her sleep.
> 
> The following is an edited extract from The Chief Witness: Escape from China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps by Sayragul Sauytbay and Alexandra Cavelius. Published by Scribe ($35).
> 
> HARVESTING 'HALAL' HUMAN ORGANS
> 
> They paid special attention in the medical department to the files of young, strong people. These were treated differently and marked with a red X. At first, I was so naïve - only later did I wonder why they always earmarked the files of fundamentally healthy people.
> 
> Had they preselected these individuals for organ harvesting? Organs that doctors would later remove without consent? It was simply a fact that the Party took organs from prisoners.
> 
> Several clinics in East Turkestan traded in organs. In Altai, for instance, it was common knowledge that lots of Arabs preferred the organs of fellow Muslims, because they considered them 'halal'. Perhaps, I thought, they were trading in kidneys, hearts, and usable body parts at the camp as well?
> 
> After a while, I realised that these young, healthy inmates were disappearing overnight, whisked away by the guards, even though their point scores hadn't dropped. When I checked later, I realised to my horror that all their medical files were marked with a red X.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sauytbay saw evidence of organ harvesting, witnessed countless prisoners 'disappear' and recounts an 84-year-old woman having her fingernails pulled out. Pictured is the Artux City Vocational Skills Education Training Service Centre north of Kashgar in the Xinjiang region
> 'THE RAW CRIES OF A DYING ANIMAL'
> 
> I was on sentry duty till one in the morning. At midnight, I had to stand in my assigned spot in the vast hall for an hour. Sometimes we would switch sides with the other sentries.
> 
> We were always positioned behind a line drawn on the floor. On rare occasions there would be a few inmates lined up there, too, but there would always be a guard by each of them. 'We cannot under any circumstances allow a break-out!' they insisted. Not that escape seemed likely. All of the doors had multiple locks. Nobody was ever getting out.
> 
> I'd never heard anything like it in all my life. Screams like that aren't something you forget
> If, by some chance, one of the prisoners did manage to escape, they continued, we were not to let the news spread around the camp.
> 
> I stared at the glass-walled guardhouse opposite. Behind it was the stairwell. I had quickly realised that there must be several lower levels, because administrative staff often took ages fetching things from 'the bottom floor', even when they were ordered to hurry.
> 
> The stairwell was also near the 'black room', where they tortured people in the most abominable ways. After two or three days at the camp, I heard the screams for the first time, resonating throughout the enormous hall and seeping into every pore of my body. I felt like I was teetering on the edge of some dizzying chasm.
> 
> I'd never heard anything like it in all my life. Screams like that aren't something you forget. The second you hear them, you know what kind of agony that person is experiencing. They sounded like the raw cries of a dying animal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MAKING THE DEAD DISAPPEAR
> 
> I've described one type of confidential document already - the type that ended up crumbling into ash. But some controversial subject matter wasn't intended for teaching, so they took a different approach. Not even the guards in the room were allowed to know what these documents contained, and thus one night I found myself standing motionless in a small office, silently reading Instruction 21.
> 
> Here, too, officers observed my facial expressions, trying to work out how I was reacting to the contents. But I'd learned my lesson. No matter how appalling the message, my face betrayed no response.
> 
> 'All those who die in the camp must vanish without a trace.' There it was, as plain as day, in bald, official jargon, as though they were talking about disposing of spoiled food. There should be no visible signs of torture on the bodies. When a prisoner was killed, or died in some other way, it had to be kept absolutely secret. Any evidence, proof, or documentation was to be immediately destroyed. Taking photos or video recordings of the corpses was strictly forbidden. Family members were supposed to be fobbed off with vague excuses as to the manner of death; and in certain cases, they explained, it was advisable simply never to mention they had died at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'THE BLACK ROOM' TORTURE CHAMBER
> 
> During 'class', I noticed a number of prisoners groaning and scratching themselves until they bled. I couldn't tell if they were genuinely ill or had gone mad. As my mouth opened and closed - I was barely even listening to myself talk about our self-sacrificing patriarch Xi Jinping, who 'passes on the warmth of love with his hands' - several of the 'students' collapsed unconscious and fell off their plastic chairs.
> 
> Many inmates, bound at the wrists and ankles, they strapped into chairs that had nails sticking out of the seats
> In threatening situations, human beings have a kind of switch in our brains that functions like a fuse in an electrical circuit. As soon as the level of anguish we're experiencing exceeds the capacity of our senses, we simply switch off: to stop us going out of our minds with fear, we lose consciousness in extremis.
> 
> When this happened, the guards would summon their colleagues outside, who rushed in, grabbed the unconscious person by both arms, and dragged them away like a doll, their feet trailing across the floor. But they didn't just take the unconscious, the sick, and the mad. Suddenly, the door would spring open, and heavily armed men would thunder into the room. For no reason at all. Sometimes it was simply because a prisoner hadn't understood one of the guard's orders, issued in Chinese.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +14
> 
> 
> The Chief Witness: Escape from China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps by Sayragul Sauytbay and Alexandra Cavelius. Published by Scribe ($35)
> These people were among the unluckiest in the camp. I could see in their eyes how they felt - that raging storm of pain and suffering. Hearing their screams and cries for help in the corridors afterwards made our blood freeze in our veins, and brought us to the verge of panic. They were drawn-out, constant, virtually unbearable. There was no more sorrowful sound.
> 
> I saw with my own eyes the various instruments of torture in the 'black room'. The chains on the wall. Many inmates, bound at the wrists and ankles, they strapped into chairs that had nails sticking out of the seats. Many of the people they tortured never came back out of that room - others stumbled out, covered in blood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PULLING OUT FINGERNAILS AND TOENAILS
> 
> The space, roughly twenty metres square, looked a bit like a darkroom. A messy black strip about thirty centimetres wide had been painted on the wall just above the floor, as though someone had smeared it with mud. In the middle was a table three or four metres long, crammed with all kinds of tools and torture devices. Tasers and police cudgels in various shapes and sizes: thick, thin, long, and short. Iron rods used to fix the hands and feet in agonising positions behind a person's back, designed to inflict the maximum possible pain.
> 
> The walls, too, were hung with weapons and implements that looked like they were from the Middle Ages
> The walls, too, were hung with weapons and implements that looked like they were from the Middle Ages. Implements used to pull out fingernails and toenails, and a long stick - a bit like a spear - that had been sharpened like a dagger at one end. They used it for jabbing into a person's flesh.
> 
> Along one side of the room was a row of chairs designed for different purposes. Electric chairs and metal chairs with bars and straps to stop the victim moving; iron chairs with holes in the back so that the arms could be twisted back above the shoulder joint. My gaze wandered across the walls and floor. Rough cement. Grey and dirty, revolting and confusing - as though evil itself was squatting in that room, feeding on our pain. I was certain I would die before dawn.
> 
> The Chief Witness: Escape from China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps by Sayragul Sauytbay and Alexandra Cavelius. Published by Scribe ($35).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Survivor of China's modern-day concentration camps reveals the horror
> 
> 
> Sayragul Sauytbay was snatched at gunpoint by police in November 2017 and forced into a Xinjiang gulag to teach fellow ethnic minorities Chinese language, culture and politics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


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## PakFactor

X-ray Papa said:


> Sir, why cant the another super power be a muslim country.



I can list thousand of things but the lack of a strong spine and wasted last few decades has rendered Muslim countries as duds. We in such a state (besides Pakistan and Turkey) that other countries aren’t capable of fighting a 3rd rate power.

Their is also a lack of Will on there parts.


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## War Thunder

There you have it. The question was asked and he had this once chance to answer it for his public and he spoke what he had to.

Did he say there is no problem? There is no genocide? No mistreatment? No harassment?

Or did he acknowledge the existence of a problem that he wanted to address internally "because of the benefits they get from being on good terms with China"?


If most of you Pakistanis still want to live in denial or carry on with your "corrupt" or "ignorant" behavior (instead of relying on personal research). Then I hope you do understand the crime you are all taking part in. If you still have souls that remind you of being on the right side of things for at least the part of knowing it to be a wrong in your heart (the lowest state of imaan).

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## War Thunder

Beast said:


> Lol... I wonder how much she got for writing such sensational story?




some times I also wonder how much you get paid per post on this forum?
Is it good enough for a monthly wage?

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## Reichsmarschall

GumNaam said:


> ah yes, alas, no propagandiarreah would be complete without that cliche "glaring out into the open horizon" stare pic! gotta have that, othewise no one would by that shit! I mean c'mon...she's staring into the sunset in front of the ocean waves people, must be telling the truth, riiiiiiiiight?


Fool me once shame on you fool me twice....

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## Feng Leng

War Thunder said:


> There you have it. The question was asked and he had this once chance to answer it for his public and he spoke what he had to.
> 
> Did he say there is no problem? There is no genocide? No mistreatment? No harassment?
> 
> Or did he acknowledge the existence of a problem that he wanted to address internally "because of the benefits they get from being on good terms with China"?
> 
> 
> If most of you Pakistanis still want to live in denial or carry on with your "corrupt" or "ignorant" behavior (instead of relying on personal research). Then I hope you do understand the crime you are all taking part in. If you still have souls that remind you of being on the right side of things for at least the part of knowing it to be a wrong in your heart (the lowest state of imaan).


"Anti-Semitic slur" -- another Zionist supporter

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## -blitzkrieg-

War Thunder said:


> There you have it. The question was asked and he had this once chance to answer it for his public and he spoke what he had to.
> 
> Did he say there is no problem? There is no genocide? No mistreatment? No harassment?
> 
> Or did he acknowledge the existence of a problem that he wanted to address internally "because of the benefits they get from being on good terms with China"?
> 
> 
> If most of you Pakistanis still want to live in denial or carry on with your "corrupt" or "ignorant" behavior (instead of relying on personal research). Then I hope you do understand the crime you are all taking part in. If you still have souls that remind you of being on the right side of things for at least the part of knowing it to be a wrong in your heart (the lowest state of imaan).





what he was implying ..we dont know about issues internal to China.. and if we need to ask we ask through proper channels, not in public.
i would say a brilliant response.
if he had straight off denied everything the onus would be on him to provide proof about Chinas internal issue which as FM of another country is not his duty to defend.

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## War Thunder

PakFactor said:


> I can list thousand of things but the lack of a strong spine and wasted last few decades has rendered Muslim countries as duds. We in such a state (besides Pakistan and Turkey) that other countries aren’t capable of fighting a 3rd rate power.
> 
> Their is also a lack of Will on there parts.




What state are Pakistan and Turkey in?
When was the last time they stood up against any oppressor or carried the will?


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## War Thunder

-blitzkrieg- said:


> what he was implying ..we dont know about issues internal to China.. and if we need to ask we ask through proper channels, not in public.
> i would say a brilliant response.
> if he had straight off denied everything the onus would be on him to provide proof about Chinas internal issue which as FM of another country is not his duty to defend.




Yes, for a response to the international audience.
But for a response that his own nation was watching and depending upon?

Why hasn't China been able to convince Imran Khan or FM or anyone else to defend it being "iron brothers whatever"?
Why isn't Pakistan defending China and denying any allegations if there are no concerns at all?


And above all. Why does our FM not know what happens inside China? The country he is supposed to have the closest working relationship with? Because its all about business and money?

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## redtom

War Thunder said:


> Yes, for a response to the international audience.
> But for a response that his own nation was watching and depending upon?
> 
> Why hasn't China been able to convince Imran Khan or FM or anyone else to defend it being "iron brothers whatever"?
> Why isn't Pakistan defending China and denying any allegations if there are no concerns at all?
> 
> 
> And above all. Why does our FM not know what happens inside China? The country he is supposed to have the closest working relationship with? Because its all about business and money?


Why doesn't he say Israel is anti-human scum?I think most Pakistanis feel the same way. 

Because he's a diplomat.He's not here to attack the U.S. government.If he denies it outright, the anchor will ask him if he thinks the US is lying?How should he answer? 

Nor did Chinese diplomats directly attack the US.If it were me, I'd just say "Motherfuck,Anglo-Saxon mongrel from England, twisted brutes with lies, inbred freaks, genocidal slave nation. "

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## PakAlp

War Thunder said:


> There you have it. The question was asked and he had this once chance to answer it for his public and he spoke what he had to.
> 
> Did he say there is no problem? There is no genocide? No mistreatment? No harassment?
> 
> Or did he acknowledge the existence of a problem that he wanted to address internally "because of the benefits they get from being on good terms with China"?
> 
> 
> If most of you Pakistanis still want to live in denial or carry on with your "corrupt" or "ignorant" behavior (instead of relying on personal research). Then I hope you do understand the crime you are all taking part in. If you still have souls that remind you of being on the right side of things for at least the part of knowing it to be a wrong in your heart (the lowest state of imaan).



Major western media are saying Uighurs Muslims are mistreated, including many independent people. According to my research something very bad is happening. China admits they have special vocational schools but they say its voluntary. So special schools for Muslims do exist in order to integrate them in to the Chinese culture and way of life. The uighurs are Turks and have their own culture, religion, traditions. I can understand why China must be taking this as a threat. Things like forcing women to have sex with Chinese men, eating pork etc. Disgusting. Shame on Muslim countries if they know its happening but are staying quiet. This is worse than Israel treatment of Palestinians. 

The Muslim Turk countries need to give asylum to all the Uighur population. Around 12 Million migrating to 6 odd countries shouldn't be a problem, we have 1 million living in Pakistan.

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## redtom

PakAlp said:


> Major western media are saying Uighurs Muslims are mistreated, including many independent people. According to my research something very bad is happening. China admits they have special vocational schools but they say its voluntary. So special schools for Muslims do exist in order to integrate them in to the Chinese culture and way of life. The uighurs are Turks and have their own culture, religion, traditions. I can understand why China must be taking this as a threat. Things like forcing women to have sex with Chinese men, eating pork etc. Disgusting. Shame on Muslim countries if they know its happening but are staying quiet. This is worse than Israel treatment of Palestinians.
> 
> The Muslim Turk countries need to give asylum to all the Uighur population. Around 12 Million migrating to 6 odd countries shouldn't be a problem, we have 1 million living in Pakistan.


Any country that believes Uighurs have been genocidal should open up to unconditional Uighur immigration.Otherwise I can only think that these countries are lying.

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## PakAlp

redtom said:


> Any country that believes Uighurs have been genocidal should open up to unconditional Uighur immigration.Otherwise I can only think that these countries are lying.



If they real cared about them they should let them immigrate. Will the Chinese agree? Pakistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan and co should let them enter. If you are not powerful to help them then let them migrate. Muslim land if for the Muslims.


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## redtom

PakAlp said:


> If they real cared about them they should let them immigrate. Will the Chinese agree? Pakistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan and co should let them enter. If you are not powerful to help them then let them migrate. Muslim land if for the Muslims.


China does not stop immigration. Every year, hundreds of millions of Chinese go abroad.And none of the countries you have listed believe there is Uyghur genocide. 

If you think of parliament as an official institution of the state ,Canada, Britain and the Netherlands are among the countries that officially recognize genocide.

I don't know why the US doesn't recognize it.Americans always preach in their personal capacity, and the US Congress refuses to endorse them.

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## 313ghazi

redtom said:


> Any country that believes Uighurs have been genocidal should open up to unconditional Uighur immigration.Otherwise I can only think that these countries are lying.



Excellent point.

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## obj 705A

PakAlp said:


> According to my research something very bad is happening.


wtf do you mean with "my research"! are you serious! 



PakAlp said:


> The uighurs are Turks


you wish LOL, Uighurs are Chinese not Turks, nowadays China is practicaly the size of an empire so it's only natural for such a huge country to have several ethnicities. 



PakAlp said:


> If they really cared about them they should let them immigrate. Will the Chinese agree?



you are suggesting that China should kick the Uighurs out of China, that will never happen, China will definitly not do that rediculous suggestion if yours of ethnic cleansing of the Uighurs, they were born in China and they can and will stay in their homeland for as long as the earth exists. 



PakAlp said:


> Pakistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan and co should let them enter.


I'm sorry to tell you this but the GDP per capita of Xinjiang is double that of Azarbaijan, no person in his right mind would leave his home to live in a much poorer place, if a Uighur individual is not content with the living standards in Xinjiang the he is much more likely to go to an eastern province such as Jiangsu where the GDP per capita is double that of Turkey than get out of China to poorer countries. and please don't even mention Pakistan, not only is Pakistan a close ally of China for decades now so the chances of Pakistan doing something that damages their alliance are zero but also the GDP per capita of Xinjiang is like six times that of Pakistan so yeah no mass immigration will happen.

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## shanlung

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> *China operates an estimated 1,200 concentration camps in its Xinjiang province*
> *Three million members of the Kazakh and Uyghur ethnic minorities are interned*
> *Prisoners are raped, beaten and tortured and organs are likely harvested for sale*
> *Sayragul Sauytbay was incarcerated as a teacher at one of the camps for months*
> *After fleeing Xinjiang for Kazakhstan she has written a book about what she saw*
> 
> 
> A survivor of one of China's modern-day concentration camps has revealed the beatings, rapes and 'disappearances' she witnessed behind the barbed wire.
> 
> Sayragul Sauytbay was born in China's north-western province and trained as a doctor before being appointed a senior civil servant.
> 
> As a Kazakh she belonged to one of China's ethnic minorities who lived in what was known as East Turkestan until it was annexed and renamed Xinjiang by Mao Zedong in 1949.
> 
> The mother-of-two's life was upended in November 2017 when she was ordered into a concentration camp to teach prisoners, mostly Kazakhs and Uyghurs, in one of the region's estimated 1,200 gulags.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A survivor of one of China's barbaric modern-day concentration camps has revealed the beatings, rapes and 'disappearances' she witnessed behind the barbed wire. Members of the Uyghur ethnic minority are pictured in a camp in Lop County, Xinjiang, in April 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working from witness statements, teacher Sayragul Sauytbay made a sketch to illustrate how detainees are tortured in underground water prisons. Shackled at the wrists, they spend weeks with their bodies immersed in dirty water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The internment camps are estimated to house three million Kazakhs and Uyghurs who are subjected to medical experiments, rape and torture. Pictured is a watchtower at what is believed to be a 'red-education camp' on the outskirts of Xingiang
> 
> 
> 
> The internment camps of Xinjiang are estimated to house three million Kazakhs and Uyghurs who are subjected to medical experiments, torture and rape.
> 
> International observers believe China is trying to exterminate ethnic minorities. China says the camps are 'vocational training centres' and residents are there of their own free will.
> 
> 
> Sauytbay was put to work in one of these camps 're-educating' inmates in Chinese language, culture and politics.
> 
> She has now bravely exposed the barbaric system in The Chief Witness: Escape From China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps, written with journalist Alexandra Cavelius.
> 
> Inmates had their heads shaved and stank of sweat, urine and faeces as they were kept in cramped conditions and allowed to shower once or twice a month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +14
> 
> 
> Sayragul Sauytbay (pictured) has written about her experiences in a book called The Chief Witness: Escape From China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps with journalist Alexandra Cavelius. The 44-eyar-old is physically broken and has nightmares about her time in the gulag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sauytbay saw evidence of organ harvesting and recounts an 84-year-old woman having her fingernails pulled out after she denied making an international phone call.
> 
> She was made to watch guards pack-rape a woman in her early 20s after she had confessed to texting Muslim holiday greetings a friend when she was in Year 9.
> 
> Sauytbay was literally forced to sign her own death warrant, agreeing she would face the death penalty if she revealed what happened in the prison or broke any rule.
> 
> During her internment Sauytbay also gained access to secret information that revealed the Communist Party's long-term plans to undermine its minorities and democracies around the world.
> 
> Among the state secrets she read in papers stamped 'Classified Documents from Beijing' was the real purpose of the Xinjiang camps as outlined in a three-step plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Step one for 2014–2015 was to 'assimilate those who are willing in Xinjiang, and eliminate those who are not.'
> 
> Step two (2025–2035): 'After assimilation within China is complete, neighbouring countries will be annexed.'
> 
> Step three (2035–2055): 'After the realisation of the Chinese dream comes the occupation of Europe.'
> 
> After her release in March 2018, Sauytbay escaped from Xinjiang into Kazakhstan where she was reunited with her husband and children before fleeing to Sweden.
> 
> Having revealed what Sauytbay describes as 'the biggest systematic incarceration of a single ethnic group since the Third Reich', she still lives with the constant threat of reprisals.
> 
> Sauytbay, now 44, is physically broken and has nightmares about her time in the gulag, hearing tortured prisoners scream out 'save us, please save us' in her sleep.
> 
> The following is an edited extract from The Chief Witness: Escape from China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps by Sayragul Sauytbay and Alexandra Cavelius. Published by Scribe ($35).
> 
> HARVESTING 'HALAL' HUMAN ORGANS
> 
> They paid special attention in the medical department to the files of young, strong people. These were treated differently and marked with a red X. At first, I was so naïve - only later did I wonder why they always earmarked the files of fundamentally healthy people.
> 
> Had they preselected these individuals for organ harvesting? Organs that doctors would later remove without consent? It was simply a fact that the Party took organs from prisoners.
> 
> Several clinics in East Turkestan traded in organs. In Altai, for instance, it was common knowledge that lots of Arabs preferred the organs of fellow Muslims, because they considered them 'halal'. Perhaps, I thought, they were trading in kidneys, hearts, and usable body parts at the camp as well?
> 
> After a while, I realised that these young, healthy inmates were disappearing overnight, whisked away by the guards, even though their point scores hadn't dropped. When I checked later, I realised to my horror that all their medical files were marked with a red X.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sauytbay saw evidence of organ harvesting, witnessed countless prisoners 'disappear' and recounts an 84-year-old woman having her fingernails pulled out. Pictured is the Artux City Vocational Skills Education Training Service Centre north of Kashgar in the Xinjiang region
> 'THE RAW CRIES OF A DYING ANIMAL'
> 
> I was on sentry duty till one in the morning. At midnight, I had to stand in my assigned spot in the vast hall for an hour. Sometimes we would switch sides with the other sentries.
> 
> We were always positioned behind a line drawn on the floor. On rare occasions there would be a few inmates lined up there, too, but there would always be a guard by each of them. 'We cannot under any circumstances allow a break-out!' they insisted. Not that escape seemed likely. All of the doors had multiple locks. Nobody was ever getting out.
> 
> I'd never heard anything like it in all my life. Screams like that aren't something you forget
> If, by some chance, one of the prisoners did manage to escape, they continued, we were not to let the news spread around the camp.
> 
> I stared at the glass-walled guardhouse opposite. Behind it was the stairwell. I had quickly realised that there must be several lower levels, because administrative staff often took ages fetching things from 'the bottom floor', even when they were ordered to hurry.
> 
> The stairwell was also near the 'black room', where they tortured people in the most abominable ways. After two or three days at the camp, I heard the screams for the first time, resonating throughout the enormous hall and seeping into every pore of my body. I felt like I was teetering on the edge of some dizzying chasm.
> 
> I'd never heard anything like it in all my life. Screams like that aren't something you forget. The second you hear them, you know what kind of agony that person is experiencing. They sounded like the raw cries of a dying animal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MAKING THE DEAD DISAPPEAR
> 
> I've described one type of confidential document already - the type that ended up crumbling into ash. But some controversial subject matter wasn't intended for teaching, so they took a different approach. Not even the guards in the room were allowed to know what these documents contained, and thus one night I found myself standing motionless in a small office, silently reading Instruction 21.
> 
> Here, too, officers observed my facial expressions, trying to work out how I was reacting to the contents. But I'd learned my lesson. No matter how appalling the message, my face betrayed no response.
> 
> 'All those who die in the camp must vanish without a trace.' There it was, as plain as day, in bald, official jargon, as though they were talking about disposing of spoiled food. There should be no visible signs of torture on the bodies. When a prisoner was killed, or died in some other way, it had to be kept absolutely secret. Any evidence, proof, or documentation was to be immediately destroyed. Taking photos or video recordings of the corpses was strictly forbidden. Family members were supposed to be fobbed off with vague excuses as to the manner of death; and in certain cases, they explained, it was advisable simply never to mention they had died at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'THE BLACK ROOM' TORTURE CHAMBER
> 
> During 'class', I noticed a number of prisoners groaning and scratching themselves until they bled. I couldn't tell if they were genuinely ill or had gone mad. As my mouth opened and closed - I was barely even listening to myself talk about our self-sacrificing patriarch Xi Jinping, who 'passes on the warmth of love with his hands' - several of the 'students' collapsed unconscious and fell off their plastic chairs.
> 
> Many inmates, bound at the wrists and ankles, they strapped into chairs that had nails sticking out of the seats
> In threatening situations, human beings have a kind of switch in our brains that functions like a fuse in an electrical circuit. As soon as the level of anguish we're experiencing exceeds the capacity of our senses, we simply switch off: to stop us going out of our minds with fear, we lose consciousness in extremis.
> 
> When this happened, the guards would summon their colleagues outside, who rushed in, grabbed the unconscious person by both arms, and dragged them away like a doll, their feet trailing across the floor. But they didn't just take the unconscious, the sick, and the mad. Suddenly, the door would spring open, and heavily armed men would thunder into the room. For no reason at all. Sometimes it was simply because a prisoner hadn't understood one of the guard's orders, issued in Chinese.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +14
> 
> 
> The Chief Witness: Escape from China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps by Sayragul Sauytbay and Alexandra Cavelius. Published by Scribe ($35)
> These people were among the unluckiest in the camp. I could see in their eyes how they felt - that raging storm of pain and suffering. Hearing their screams and cries for help in the corridors afterwards made our blood freeze in our veins, and brought us to the verge of panic. They were drawn-out, constant, virtually unbearable. There was no more sorrowful sound.
> 
> I saw with my own eyes the various instruments of torture in the 'black room'. The chains on the wall. Many inmates, bound at the wrists and ankles, they strapped into chairs that had nails sticking out of the seats. Many of the people they tortured never came back out of that room - others stumbled out, covered in blood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PULLING OUT FINGERNAILS AND TOENAILS
> 
> The space, roughly twenty metres square, looked a bit like a darkroom. A messy black strip about thirty centimetres wide had been painted on the wall just above the floor, as though someone had smeared it with mud. In the middle was a table three or four metres long, crammed with all kinds of tools and torture devices. Tasers and police cudgels in various shapes and sizes: thick, thin, long, and short. Iron rods used to fix the hands and feet in agonising positions behind a person's back, designed to inflict the maximum possible pain.
> 
> The walls, too, were hung with weapons and implements that looked like they were from the Middle Ages
> The walls, too, were hung with weapons and implements that looked like they were from the Middle Ages. Implements used to pull out fingernails and toenails, and a long stick - a bit like a spear - that had been sharpened like a dagger at one end. They used it for jabbing into a person's flesh.
> 
> Along one side of the room was a row of chairs designed for different purposes. Electric chairs and metal chairs with bars and straps to stop the victim moving; iron chairs with holes in the back so that the arms could be twisted back above the shoulder joint. My gaze wandered across the walls and floor. Rough cement. Grey and dirty, revolting and confusing - as though evil itself was squatting in that room, feeding on our pain. I was certain I would die before dawn.
> 
> The Chief Witness: Escape from China's Modern-Day Concentration Camps by Sayragul Sauytbay and Alexandra Cavelius. Published by Scribe ($35).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Survivor of China's modern-day concentration camps reveals the horror
> 
> 
> Sayragul Sauytbay was snatched at gunpoint by police in November 2017 and forced into a Xinjiang gulag to teach fellow ethnic minorities Chinese language, culture and politics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk





When you trying to get oxygen for yourself and picking firewood, beware of the black fungus. And white fungus.

AND NOW BEWARE OF YELLOW FUNGUS

Only one word I can say to you and to all Indians

*SCHADENFREUDE *


----------



## beijingwalker

newb3e said:


> freedom of speech,human rights, freedom are all bs western tools! it was with the help of these tools west normalized and legitimized killing of millions of Muslims!
> 
> so **** their standards!


Freedom of speech when you speak their language

Uighur girl's twitter was banned for speaking of real Xinjiang


----------



## PakAlp

obj 705A said:


> wtf do you mean with "my research"! are you serious!
> 
> 
> you wish LOL, Uighurs are Chinese not Turks, nowadays China is practicaly the size of an empire so it's only natural for such a huge country to have several ethnicities.
> 
> 
> 
> you are suggesting that China should kick the Uighurs out of China, that will never happen, China will definitly not do that rediculous suggestion if yours of ethnic cleansing of the Uighurs, they were born in China and they can and will stay in their homeland for as long as the earth exists.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry to tell you this but the GDP per capita of Xinjiang is double that of Azarbaijan, no person in his right mind would leave his home to live in a much poorer place, if a Uighur individual is not content with the living standards in Xinjiang the he is much more likely to go to an eastern province such as Jiangsu where the GDP per capita is double that of Turkey than get out of China to poorer countries. and please don't even mention Pakistan, not only is Pakistan a close ally of China for decades now so the chances of Pakistan doing something that damages their alliance are zero but also the GDP per capita of Xinjiang is like six times that of Pakistan so yeah no mass immigration will happen.



Well the information i found, it seems something wrong is going on. Are you saying everything is lovey dovey.

Ok but ill advice you to read their history. They are part of the Turkic community, with their own culture.

I know China GDP, I was suggesting if they are actually being treated like dogs and noone is helping them then they should migrate to neighbouring Muslim countries like they done before, you should know hundreds of thousands migrated before. Like the Burma Muslims, who are being burnt alive or will you deny that too.


----------



## obj 705A

PakAlp said:


> Well the information i found


cool story bro. 


PakAlp said:


> I know China GDP, I was suggesting if they are actually being treated like dogs and noone is helping them then they should migrate to neighbouring Muslim countries like they done before


and since they are not doing that (ie: migrating to neighboring countries) at least not in any significamt numbers then that just means they aren't being "treated like dogs".

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## SpaceMan18

America over here acting like they care about Muslims **COUGH COUGH Iraq,Libya etc*

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

PakAlp said:


> Major western media are saying Uighurs Muslims are mistreated, including many independent people. According to my research something very bad is happening. China admits they have special vocational schools but they say its voluntary. So special schools for Muslims do exist in order to integrate them in to the Chinese culture and way of life. The uighurs are Turks and have their own culture, religion, traditions. I can understand why China must be taking this as a threat. Things like forcing women to have sex with Chinese men, eating pork etc. Disgusting. Shame on Muslim countries if they know its happening but are staying quiet. This is worse than Israel treatment of Palestinians.
> 
> The Muslim Turk countries need to give asylum to all the Uighur population. Around 12 Million migrating to 6 odd countries shouldn't be a problem, we have 1 million living in Pakistan.









Major Western media outlets also claimed that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins..........

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## Reashot Xigwin

jamahir said:


> Come on, that tweet itself proves that his account is Western government propaganda.
> 
> I am a Muslim, don't have beard, am leftist but am critical of Chinese political and economic system ( which is not truly communist ) and am also critical of Western political and economic systems. As I said, the tweet is Western government propaganda.



Any proof of that?

Also is this talking about you?








Why Does the Anti-Imperial Left So Often End Up Denying Genocide? – Byline Times


From the Soviet Union to China, Bosnia to the Uyghurs, CJ Werleman traces a historic tendency that turns a blind eye to international crimes




bylinetimes.com









__





Consulate Cables Leak: Documents Show Chinese Communist Party Justifying Brutality Against Uyghurs – Byline Times


CJ Werleman reveals Beijing's propaganda efforts to cover-up its repression of millions of Chinese Muslims




bylinetimes.com





*Twenty-Two Lies*
The Chinese consulate in Istanbul, Turkey, sent a packet of documents and files to unknown recipients on 5 July 2020.

In the Turkish language, and under the subject heading ‘Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region’, the body of the email reads:



> “Today we have prepared you 22 lies about Xinjiang and its truth. In addition, we have translated the videos of the terrorist incidents in Xinjiang and the real faces of those who claim that some of their ‘relatives have disappeared’. We have translated into Turkish and present them for your information.”




The Chinese consulate in Istanbul claims that the “22 lies” told about Beijing’s crackdown on Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang include:


Vocational education and training centres in Xinjiang being “concentration camps” that imprison more than a million Uyghurs.
Vocational education and training centres in Xinjiang implementing a policy of “political incitement and intimidation” on Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities.
Vocational education and training centres not being in a good condition and these centres lacking medical facilities. Trainees being subjected to forced political incitement and torture and being deprived of their rights to practice their religious traditions and use local ethnic languages among themselves.
The prisoners in the camps in Xinjiang including the permanent residents of the US and Australia.
Special operations carried out by Xinjiang against violent terrorist activities aiming to suppress ethnic minorities under the pretext of fighting terrorists.
China restricting Uyghurs’ freedom of communication and movement in Xinjiang to combat terrorism and prevent radicalisation.
Xinjiang having extensive oversight of local ethnic minorities.
Collective forced labour against ethnic minorities taking place in Xinjiang.
Many mosques being destroyed in Xinjiang.
The cemeteries of ethnic minorities being destroyed in some parts of Xinjiang.
The purpose of the solidarity campaign for minority ethnic groups in Xinjiang being to observe minority groups.
The Xinjiang government forcibly sending Uyghur children to boarding schools and forcibly detaching them from their families.
The Chinese Government forcing abortion and contraception onto Uyghur and other minority ethnic groups in Xinjiang.
The Chinese Government exerting pressure on Muslims.
The Chinese Government attempting to destroy Muslims through COVID-19.
Rumors about “missing persons” on some media or social media platforms about the “lost” contacts or “lost” families and friends of Uyghurs abroad in Xinjiang.
China using passport renewal as a weapon to force Uyghurs abroad to return to China, where they are detained without trial.
A research Report on ‘Karakaş List: Analysis of China’s Detention Movement in Xinjiang’.
Thirty relatives of Rebiya Kadeer were arrested without trial.
Families of “activists” such as Puerhaiti Jiaodaiti, Elapati Aierken and Zaomure Dawuti have been disturbed, imprisoned or arbitrarily detained.
Mutalif Nurmemet died nine days after leaving the vocational training centre. Uyghur writer Nurmemet Tohti died in the camp. Sayragül Savutbay was tortured in a camp before escaping from China. Uyghur musician and poet Abdurehim Heyit was sentenced to eight years in prison and died in the second year of his sentence.
The comic _What Happens to Me_ tells the experiences of Uyghur woman Mihrigül Tursun, who escaped from the vocational training centre in Xinjiang. She claims that she witnessed the death of nine women during her detention and that her younger brother, who was held in the training centre, died from torture.


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## mike2000 is back

dbc said:


> Twitter is obliged by Indian laws to remove any content from Indian viewers that the Indian government deems unlawful. Failure to do so will result in the prosecution of Twitter employees in India.
> In India, the government has the power to censor internet content from anyone living in India.
> So yes there is no freedom of speech in India.
> 
> In the US, the government has no such powers only the courts do.
> 
> Do you have any evidence to prove..
> 
> 1. Twitter suspended these accounts to censor the content
> 2. The US government compelled Twitter to block this account?


Agree, people forget that even the Indian government isn't that much different from the CCP when it comes to censoring social media comments from western platforms made by Indians that they deem not favourable to them. In this regard they are getting more like China than a western democracy. Just look at the way their government reacted recently forcing twitter to delete any comments made by India in regards to criticism by Indians of their handling of the covid debacle. Just one of many examples. It's actually surprising that they have been able to get away with such things without getting called out on that much from our side. So i don't think they have much higher ground to even talk much about the Chinese in this regard, since they are getting more and more similar to them.

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## mike2000 is back

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL those 2 "uighur girl" are obvious propaganda bots. How do I know?
> 
> 1. You can't go to youtube from China unless you use a VPN (same with pk defense) & using VPN is punishable in China, so that means they have government permission because if not that mean there's 2 opening in a concentration camp near them.
> 
> 2. They claim to be from Uighur but their youtube site are listed in Hong Kong, most likely in order to get monetized but still the claim of just showing people how beautiful Xinjiang is already suspicious.
> 
> 3. They were followed immediately by CCP higher ups and even higher ups from CGTN on twitter. So there's already a red flag right there.
> 
> 4. Is just an opinion of mine but they don't look normal their movements and mannerism looks forced and they look like they are just reading a cue cards from behind the camera.
> 
> Here's their video & a fair warning though it's cringe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to follow a good Uyghur account that's not a propaganda here's one:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392722062326763522


LOL I've watched similar videos about Xinjiang from Chinese sources and it's indeed cringe and even funny. The thing is the Chinese are very poor in propaganda, their propaganda are so bad that even a lay man can usually tell that it's obviously scripted, in fact even their global news channel/media geared for international audience like CGTN/CCTV/New China etc are the same. Sometimes their journalists even come across as amateurs the way they present a program compared to those at BBC, CNN, AL Jazeera, RT, DW, France 24 etc. So im not surprise from the videos you posted above. 
Anyway, i think the fact that the Chinese government has insulated the country's internet environment to that of globe for so long as also had its fair share of blame. The Chinese internet community is locked up due to this, and can only interreact with their foreign peers through VPN(illegal officially) which not many Chinese use. This has also limited the voice of Chinese people from being heard internationally as well, since how do you make your voice/point heard if you cant even interreact with others internationally? So ironically that has been an unintended consequence of the great firewall and censorship, so anything that comes out of China is automatically taken/viewed with suspicion since it's mostly state owned media Channel that are allowed in China anyway and so people take everything that comes out of there as propaganda for obvious reason. So due to this censorship/firewall if people want to usually get news from the country without having to rely on state media it's usually through foreign media(usually western ones), so we have to tell their story for them, since their government have sealed up the country internet from much of the world. lol So the great firewall has had alot of effect on this and wont be changing anytime soon as long as that law persists this will keep being the case.

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## Globenim

Reashot Xigwin said:


> If you want to follow a good Uyghur account that's not a propaganda here's one:



An Norway based propaganda bot,
that spouts only ridiculous dumb shit and lies about local Chinese traditions and events,
that also actively follows and desseminates lies parotted from other U.S. regime propaganda mouthpieces and
that is followed by and affiliated with U.S. regime propaganda mouthpieces like RFA and U.S. higher ups,
who directly received funds from U.S. regime money laundering proxies for training in the U.S.A.,
who was already caught with defrauding money and money laundering, after receiving training in the U.S. proxy hotspot Turkey to train and kickstart extremist terrorcells and trying to start covert shit in China,
following the exact same CIA script as every other totally-not-CIA-and-US-regime-affiliated propaganda bot to launder cringe and intelligence insulting U.S. state propaganda, with their so obviously faked tears about "values" and "humanity"

And this propaganda bot here is talking about "red flags" an "no propaganda" in the same sentence hes peddling propaganda directly taken from the mouth of the genocidal U.S. terror regime.


----------



## Adecypher

The book is written by phoar people? ...


----------



## Globenim

Char said:


> Google used to operate in China, but they did not want to abide by Chinese laws and left. Twitter and Facebook can also operate in China, provided that they comply with Chinese laws.


Google and Twitter at the end of the day are U.S. companies, and accomplices of the U.S. regime wether they like it or not. From a businessperspective it makes no sense that Google would not want to abide Chinese laws. Google follows similar laws in the EU, India and other countries. Its safer to assume that the U.S. regime chose the approach to slow down and deprive Chinas overal internet development and ability to catch up by cancelling the coorperation all together than have Google operate in China in full control by China and without any control and means to spy on Chinese citizen and less options to manipulate information by the U.S. regime which makes maintaing a monopoly moot and both the U.S. regime and Google just cope with this narrative about values and ethics.

And before some bot repeats his scripted bullshit, nobody is retarded enough to actually believe the U.S. regime respects its own laws that exist only for its own convenience or to deceive its slaves of a population. Violating oaths without consquences, lawless espionage, lawless arrest, showtrials, state funded disinformation, daylight bribes and kickbacks, embezzlement without anyone getting punished. They are not even bothering to hide half of it because their strategy is just contiously drowning their crimes with lies, before they blackmail, threaten and straight out murder of everyone who actually threatens that system.

When the U.S. regime tells them to open up their butts and hand over Chinese private data they will do so with or without approval of public lawmakers.


----------



## Globenim

Feng Leng said:


> The American government is afraid of two little girls


They also started to order U.S. platforms to ban even European and American citizen who can see through all the bullshit or are even on the ground, along with concerted smear campaigns from "independent" U.S. regime affiliated and run propaganda mouthpiecs to drown reactions to blatant U.S. censorship of the truth. Not just Chinese users.

And their bots try to insult your intelligence with this ridicolous attempts to give these U.S. regime controlled platforms some credit of doubt to have a legitimate reason to cherrypick and ban users showing real things about China rather than porotting the U.S. regimes lies, when every comment section about China are full of pro-US-anti-China fake accounts and bots spamming the same scripted posts full of U.S. regime disinfo talking points and cheap shot and insults and blatant racism 10-24 hours every day, to drown normal users mostly positive and balanced comments, without any of them ever getting touched no matter how many times they are reported unles they maybe straight out advocate explicit genocide on Chinese maybe, and the videos or posts or seach results are sidelined with recomendations of Indian and U.S. channels and mouthpices pushing blatant and ridiculous lies out that surpass every flat earth news channel.

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## BATMAN

Clutch said:


> Lol.. she doesn't even look Muslim... Why would China want to oppress her for being Muslim???



Your authority to declare non compliant sects. as non Muslims does not extend beyond borders of Pakistan.
For very same reasons, foreign minister of Pakistan is being addressed in media as hypocrite.


----------



## Globenim

Saw the usual old unrelated stock pictures used for all U.S. regime propaganda and didnt even really read lol.

Sayragul Sauytbay 

Can only be a reprint of the same old U.S. regime invented fake story. You shills can read all the debunking of these frauds in the archives of all the other shill threads you spammed about this fake story over the last years.

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## master_13

what's funny to date, US and west still can't come up with one single first hand evidence of "abuse", everything is based on 2nd and 3rd hand account, and many those interviewed are associated with World Uyghur Congress, a known US funded organization with goal of subverting China and seek independence. Even the pictures of "concentration camp" were later found to be regular prison photos, obviously Xinjing isn't allowed to have prisons. And guess what, Xinjiang prisons house mostly Uyghur prisoner because that's what majority of people are in Xinjiang.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Globenim said:


> An Norway based propaganda bot,
> that spouts only ridiculous dumb shit and lies about local Chinese traditions and events,
> that also actively follows and desseminates lies parotted from other U.S. regime propaganda mouthpieces and
> that is followed by and affiliated with U.S. regime propaganda mouthpieces like RFA and U.S. higher ups,
> who directly received funds from U.S. regime money laundering proxies for training in the U.S.A.,
> who was already caught with defrauding money and money laundering, after receiving training in the U.S. proxy hotspot Turkey to train and kickstart extremist terrorcells and trying to start covert shit in China,
> following the exact same CIA script as every other totally-not-CIA-and-US-regime-affiliated propaganda bot to launder cringe and intelligence insulting U.S. state propaganda, with their so obviously faked tears about "values" and "humanity"
> 
> And this propaganda bot here is talking about "red flags" an "no propaganda" in the same sentence hes peddling propaganda directly taken from the mouth of the genocidal U.S. terror regime.


Wonder why the guy have to flee to Norway?


----------



## War Thunder

redtom said:


> China does not stop immigration. Every year, hundreds of millions of Chinese go abroad.And none of the countries you have listed believe there is Uyghur genocide.
> 
> If you think of parliament as an official institution of the state ,Canada, Britain and the Netherlands are among the countries that officially recognize genocide.
> 
> I don't know why the US doesn't recognize it.Americans always preach in their personal capacity, and the US Congress refuses to endorse them.





lol kid
Half the problem started when some of the Uyghurs living outside China went back only because they were called for paper renewal and never returned.

You are living outside China, you have no clue what your power hungry regime has turned into.


PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Major Western media outlets also claimed that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins..........





What stops you from doing independent research instead of keeping your head buried in sand?
What facts have you gathered so far to claim otherwise to what Western media claims? What logic have you used to convince yourself if any?

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## bilibili

Xinjiang is not only Uighurs, but also Kazakhs, Kirgiz, Tajiks, Hui and other Muslim ethnic groups. If there is a genocide claimed by US and Western countries in Xinjiang, why does not a neighboring Muslim country agree with them? They can easily visit Xinjiang and learn the facts.

The fact is US needs to mobilize the world to suppress China, especially to interrupt the relations between Muslim countries and China. It needs to fabricate a series of scandals to achieve this goal.

India is a puppy of US master.

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## jamahir

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Any proof of that?
> 
> Also is this talking about you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Does the Anti-Imperial Left So Often End Up Denying Genocide? – Byline Times
> 
> 
> From the Soviet Union to China, Bosnia to the Uyghurs, CJ Werleman traces a historic tendency that turns a blind eye to international crimes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bylinetimes.com



If CJ Werleman has to talk about genocide against Muslims he should start with the one in Indonesia where between 1965 to 1966 more than a million members and suspected sympathizers of the PKI ( Communist Party of Indonesia ) were massacred by Western government's local boy, Suharto. Some say two million.

Then he has to talk about Western bloc war crimes in other progressive Muslim-majority - Iraq and Libya.

He mentions the Bashar al-Assad "regime" and the "crimes it commits" along with Russia. Mr. Werleman has to consider the thousands of Western-bloc-created cockroach criminals ( basically Al Qaeda ) rampaging through the country since 2011. The Assad government's security forces are just doing their rightful job.

Werleman then speaks discreditably of the CCP's family planning program. We in India also have one, though it seems to have been a half-hearted one.

As I said I don't find the CCP particularly communist but we should recognize where the Western bloc is trying to include ridiculousness. What is that thing about "beards not present" ? Nowadays I see in India and in many other places through the internet that new fashion of foot-long beards inspired by the India-origin "Muslim" movement the Tablighi Jamaat. This movement has been responsible for creating suffocating social atmosphere everywhere ( the spread of burqas, for exampel ) and for people graduating out and forming criminal / terrorist groups or joining terrorist groups and being the sword arm of Western bloc imperialism and conspiracy.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Consulate Cables Leak: Documents Show Chinese Communist Party Justifying Brutality Against Uyghurs – Byline Times
> 
> 
> CJ Werleman reveals Beijing's propaganda efforts to cover-up its repression of millions of Chinese Muslims
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bylinetimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Twenty-Two Lies*
> The Chinese consulate in Istanbul, Turkey, sent a packet of documents and files to unknown recipients on 5 July 2020.
> 
> In the Turkish language, and under the subject heading ‘Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region’, the body of the email reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Chinese consulate in Istanbul claims that the “22 lies” told about Beijing’s crackdown on Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang include:
> 
> 
> Vocational education and training centres in Xinjiang being “concentration camps” that imprison more than a million Uyghurs.
> Vocational education and training centres in Xinjiang implementing a policy of “political incitement and intimidation” on Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities.
> Vocational education and training centres not being in a good condition and these centres lacking medical facilities. Trainees being subjected to forced political incitement and torture and being deprived of their rights to practice their religious traditions and use local ethnic languages among themselves.
> The prisoners in the camps in Xinjiang including the permanent residents of the US and Australia.
> Special operations carried out by Xinjiang against violent terrorist activities aiming to suppress ethnic minorities under the pretext of fighting terrorists.
> China restricting Uyghurs’ freedom of communication and movement in Xinjiang to combat terrorism and prevent radicalisation.
> Xinjiang having extensive oversight of local ethnic minorities.
> Collective forced labour against ethnic minorities taking place in Xinjiang.
> Many mosques being destroyed in Xinjiang.
> The cemeteries of ethnic minorities being destroyed in some parts of Xinjiang.
> The purpose of the solidarity campaign for minority ethnic groups in Xinjiang being to observe minority groups.
> The Xinjiang government forcibly sending Uyghur children to boarding schools and forcibly detaching them from their families.
> The Chinese Government forcing abortion and contraception onto Uyghur and other minority ethnic groups in Xinjiang.
> The Chinese Government exerting pressure on Muslims.
> The Chinese Government attempting to destroy Muslims through COVID-19.
> Rumors about “missing persons” on some media or social media platforms about the “lost” contacts or “lost” families and friends of Uyghurs abroad in Xinjiang.
> China using passport renewal as a weapon to force Uyghurs abroad to return to China, where they are detained without trial.
> A research Report on ‘Karakaş List: Analysis of China’s Detention Movement in Xinjiang’.
> Thirty relatives of Rebiya Kadeer were arrested without trial.
> Families of “activists” such as Puerhaiti Jiaodaiti, Elapati Aierken and Zaomure Dawuti have been disturbed, imprisoned or arbitrarily detained.
> Mutalif Nurmemet died nine days after leaving the vocational training centre. Uyghur writer Nurmemet Tohti died in the camp. Sayragül Savutbay was tortured in a camp before escaping from China. Uyghur musician and poet Abdurehim Heyit was sentenced to eight years in prison and died in the second year of his sentence.
> The comic _What Happens to Me_ tells the experiences of Uyghur woman Mihrigül Tursun, who escaped from the vocational training centre in Xinjiang. She claims that she witnessed the death of nine women during her detention and that her younger brother, who was held in the training centre, died from torture.



This is for the Chinese members to say.

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## redtom

War Thunder said:


> lol kid
> Half the problem started when some of the Uyghurs living outside China went back only because they were called for paper renewal and never returned.
> 
> You are living outside China, you have no clue what your power hungry regime has turned into.


Your story shocked me very much.Because Uighurs are returning to China just because they need to renewal.*Didn't forced labor, rape, imprisonment, torture, slaughter scare them?* If they can escape from the concentration camp once to China, they can certainly escape a second time.

Add a little logic to your story.Don't make yourself look stupid.

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## Reashot Xigwin

jamahir said:


> If CJ Werleman has to talk about genocide against Muslims he should start with the one in Indonesia where between 1965 to 1966 more than a million members and suspected sympathizers of the PKI ( Communist Party of Indonesia ) were massacred by Western government's local boy, Suharto. Some say two million.
> 
> Then he has to talk about Western bloc war crimes in other progressive Muslim-majority - Iraq and Libya.
> 
> He mentions the Bashar al-Assad "regime" and the "crimes it commits" along with Russia. Mr. Werleman has to consider the thousands of Western-bloc-created cockroach criminals ( basically Al Qaeda ) rampaging through the country since 2011. The Assad government's security forces are just doing their rightful job.
> 
> Werleman then speaks discreditably of the CCP's family planning program. We in India also have one, though it seems to have been a half-hearted one.
> 
> As I said I don't find the CCP particularly communist but we should recognize where the Western bloc is trying to include ridiculousness. What is that thing about "beards not present" ? Nowadays I see in India and in many other places through the internet that new fashion of foot-long beards inspired by the India-origin "Muslim" movement the Tablighi Jamaat. This movement has been responsible for people graduating out and forming criminal / terrorist groups or joining terrorist groups and being the sword arm of Western bloc imperialism and conspiracy.
> 
> 
> 
> This is for the Chinese members to say.



What they don't tell you about in the internet is that the killing of the PKI was actually counter-coup with US supports. It started when communists members tortured then murdered dozens of Generals & high ranking officers & dumped their body in a well.






The PKI made deal with china to have them supplied with 100k guns (mostly SKS if you're a nerd) with Zhou Enlai himself giving them a green light.

You outsider have no idea how close we are to a civil war & be taken over by the communists.

Also on the beard thing is that it's actually leaked chinese documents called the "Karakax lists" & that's the not only thing that can get you tortured see the end of the article for the messed up reasons.





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com


----------



## RescueRanger

To Indian forum members getting giddy in this thread. Just remember, that those who live in *glass houses* should not *throw stones**. *






India can't talk about Human Rights abuses, especially considering the rap sheet of offences and violations in Kashmir. 

*Kunan Poshpora Mass Rape:*
According to survivors and a local administration official, on the night of 23 February 1991, *soldiers from the 4 Rajputana Rifles regiment of the Indian Army gang-raped around 23 women of Kunan and Poshpora villages of Kupwara district, Jammu and Kashmir. *Details of this case were covered in OHCHR’s June 2018 report. 

There has been no progress in the Kunan Poshpora mass rape case from 1991,154 and authorities continue to thwart attempts of the survivors to get justice. The state government petitioned the Supreme Court against the Jammu and Kashmir High Court’s 2014 order that directed the state government to pay compensation to the victims within three months.

The High Court order was based on the Jammu and Kashmir State Human Rights Commission’s recommendations in 2011 to reopen and reinvestigate the case and to prosecute a senior official, whom it accused of deliberately obstructing the investigation. _The case remained stalled in the Supreme Court throughout 2018. _

*Continued use of pellet-firing shotgun: *
Indian security forces continue to use pellet-firing shotguns in the Kashmir Valley as a crowd-control weapon despite concerns as to excessive use of force and the large number of incidental civilian deaths and injuries that have resulted. It should be noted that this weapon is not deployed elsewhere in India. 

As noted in OHCHR’s June 2018 report, the 12- gauge pump-action shotgun firing metal pellets is one of the most dangerous weapons used in Kashmir. On 16 June 2018, a civilian was killed in Anantnag district of South Kashmir after being hit by metal pellets fired by security forces at protesters returning from Eid prayers. The deceased had pellet wounds in his neck and throat.

In another incident a 19-month-old girl was hit by the metal pellets in her right eye on 25 November 2018. The metal pellets were successfully removed from her eye but doctors were unsure whether she would regain her eyesight completely. According to information from Srinagar’s Shri Maharaja Hari Singh Hospital, where most pellet shotgun injured are treated, 1,253 people have been blinded by the metal pellets used by security forces from mid-2016 to end of 2018. 

*In compliance with the right to life, law enforcement officials, including soldiers charged with law enforcement missions, can only employ “less-lethal” weapons, subject to strict requirements of necessity and proportionality, in situations in which other less harmful measures have proven to be, or clearly are ineffective to address the threat.* “Less-lethal” weapons should be used in situations of crowd control which can be addressed through less harmful means, especially situations involving the exercise of the right to peaceful assembly.

*Cordon and Search Operations :*

_So-called “cordon and search operations”, a much-criticized military strategy employed by the Indian security forces in the early 1990s, was reintroduced in the Kashmir Valley in 2017. During the peak of armed insurgency in the 1990s, most extrajudicial killings were associated with cordon and search operations._

Typically in a cordon and search operation, security forces order all the men of a neighbourhood to come out and assemble for an_ “identification parade in front of hooded informers”._ According to national and international human rights organizations, cordon and search operations enable a range of human rights violations, including physical intimidation and assault, invasion of privacy, arbitrary and unlawful detention, collective punishment and destruction of private property.

In a September 2018 statement, the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation contact group on Jammu and Kashmir expressed “grave concern over the cordon and search operations in which Kashmir youth are being targeted with impunity”.

In 2018, civilian deaths were also reported due to excessive use of force during cordon and search operations. On 22 June 2018, a 55-year-old man, Mohammed Yousuf Rather, was allegedly shot when security forces entered his home in Nowshehra village of Anantnag district as part of a local operation.

He died before reaching the hospital. On 26 September 2018, a 24-year-old man, Mohammed Saleem Malik, was killed during a cordon and search operation near his house in Srinagar’s Noorbagh area.

 JKCCS also recorded 120 cases of destruction of civilian property during cordon and search operations in 2018 including 31 private houses being completely burnt down. Another 18 cases of destruction of civilian property were reported in the first 3 months of 2019. Persons affected have complained that they have not received any compensation. 

*Arbitrary detention: *

Authorities in Indian-Administered Kashmir continue to use various forms of arbitrary detention to target protesters, political dissidents and other civil society actors. A number of laws in Jammu and Kashmir provide the legal basis for arbitrary detention, but the one that is used most frequently to stifle protests and political dissent is the Jammu and Kashmir Public Safety Act (PSA) 1978.

The PSA does not provide for a judicial review of detention, and state authorities have defied orders by the Jammu and Kashmir High Court to release people detained under this law by issuing successive detention orders.

This practice has been used to keep people arbitrarily in detention for several weeks, months, and, in some cases, years. The Supreme Court of India has described the system of administrative detention, including PSA, as a “lawless law”.

Pro-independence leader Masrat Alam, who was first detained under the PSA in 2010, was charged for the 37th time in November 2018. He was re-arrested under the PSA in apparent contravention of the Supreme Court’s orders that any new detention order against him would not come into effect for a week to help him prepare his legal defence.

Despite being repeatedly detained under the PSA, Masarat Alam has never been convicted of any charges. Several separatist political leaders were detained under PSA in 2018 and 2019 and continue to be imprisoned.

In July 2018, the Government of Jammu and Kashmir amended section 10 of the PSA, removing the prohibition on detaining permanent residents of Jammu and Kashmir outside the state.

At least 40 people, chiefly separatist political leaders charged under the PSA were transferred to prisons outside the state of Jammu and Kashmir in 2018. 

There are fears that the Government’s decision to transfer PSA detainees outside Jammu and Kashmir is a way to punish the detainees further, as this makes it harder for them to be visited by their family members or to meet with their legal counsel. 

In relation to this, some prisons even deny lawyers permission to meet their clients without special court orders. Prisons outside Jammu and Kashmir are also considered hostile for Kashmiri Muslims detainees, especially separatist leaders, as they are treated as “terror suspects”. 

While protesters throwing stones or separatist leaders are usually held initially for three months as a form of preventive detention, authorities extend their detention for three months at a time without producing any new evidence substantiating grounds for their continued detention.

The state government is obligated under the Jammu and Kashmir Right to Information Act 2009 to publicly provide “detailed reasons, facts and materials that form the basis of this amendment”. However, Jammu and Kashmir authorities have not provided any details on why section 10 of the PSA was amended to allow the transfer of detainees to prisons outside Jammu and Kashmir. 

A right to information (RTI) inquiry revealed that while the PSA Advisory Board110 confirmed almost 99 percent of the detention orders, the Jammu and Kashmir High Court reversed over 81 percent of these detention orders.

*In May 2018, the State Government further diluted the checks and balances in the application of the PSA by removing the need to consult Jammu and Kashmir High Court Chief Justice while constituting the Advisory Board*.

OHCHR was informed that despite the Jammu and Kashmir High Court setting aside numerous PSA detention orders, the Jammu and Kashmir authorities continue to detain people by imposing new PSA orders even before suspects leave prisons.

The United Nations Treaty Bodies and Special Procedures have called on India to amend the PSA to ensure it complies with its international human rights obligations. The Human Rights Committee has noted that the PSA contravenes the rights enshrined in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, especially the rights to liberty and to a free and fair trial.

While analysing several cases of arbitrary detention under the PSA, the Working Group on Arbitrary Detention observed that, “[the] Government has not refuted the allegation that these persons were detained by security forces under the said Act without serving them with an arrest warrant, which constitutes a violation of due process in detention.”

As a State Party to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, India is obligated to ensure the principles of legality and the right to liberty and security.

The right to liberty and security includes the right not to be subjected to arbitrary arrest or detention, the right to know the reasons for one’s detention and charges, if any, the right to be brought before a judge within a reasonable time following arrest or detention, and the right to appeal to a court of law to review the arrest or detention.

Where persons detained under the PSA have been transferred outside Jammu and Kashmir, the authorities are also obligated to guarantee them, “adequate time and facilities for the preparation of … [a] defence and to communicate with counsel of…[their] own choosing.” . As noted in the OHCHR’s June 2018 report, the Human Rights Committee raised concerns in relation to the system of administrative detention in India and made recommendations which have yet to be fully implemented.

Likewise, although in 2014 the Committee on the Rights of the Child recommended India that all persons under the age of 18 be handled by the juvenile justice system in all circumstances, and that age verification procedures be consistently and effectively applied, information received by OHCHR indicates that there have been cases of children under 18 years being detained under the PSA in 2018 and 2019.

*OHCHR was informed that there are several cases where children under the age of 18 were being held in police station lock-ups for several days without charge and were being mistreated, even being required to pay for their meals.*

In February 2019, the Jammu and Kashmir High Court rescinded an order of the Jammu and Kashmir Director General of Police (Prisons) that sought to shift an “under trial”128 prisoner outside the state. The High Court established that the state was unable to demonstrate that the transfer (of the detainee) was done to meet any administrative exigency or emergency. However, observers have expressed skepticism that this decision will stop the transfer of PSA detainees outside of Jammu and Kashmir.

Full report here:
United Nations (ohchr.org)

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## CAPRICORN-88

redtom said:


> Any country that believes Uighurs have been genocidal should open up to unconditional Uighur immigration.Otherwise I can only think that these countries are lying.



_Yes. I absolutely agree with you on this one. 
Since they are showing a more than just an overly concern about another nation minority then walk the talk by opening their nations to them. _

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## Reashot Xigwin

redtom said:


> Why doesn't he say Israel is anti-human scum?I think most Pakistanis feel the same way.
> 
> Because he's a diplomat.He's not here to attack the U.S. government.If he denies it outright, the anchor will ask him if he thinks the US is lying?How should he answer?
> 
> Nor did Chinese diplomats directly attack the US.If it were me, I'd just say "Motherfuck,Anglo-Saxon mongrel from England, twisted brutes with lies, inbred freaks, genocidal slave nation. "



LOL ask the chinese gov what they actually think about Israel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1376364494230671362


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

RescueRanger said:


> To Indian forum members getting giddy in this thread. Just remember, that those who live in *glass houses* should not *throw stones**. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India can't talk about Human Rights abuses, especially considering the rap sheet of offences and violations in Kashmir.
> 
> *Kunan Poshpora Mass Rape:*
> According to survivors and a local administration official, on the night of 23 February 1991, *soldiers from the 4 Rajputana Rifles regiment of the Indian Army gang-raped around 23 women of Kunan and Poshpora villages of Kupwara district, Jammu and Kashmir. *Details of this case were covered in OHCHR’s June 2018 report.
> 
> There has been no progress in the Kunan Poshpora mass rape case from 1991,154 and authorities continue to thwart attempts of the survivors to get justice. The state government petitioned the Supreme Court against the Jammu and Kashmir High Court’s 2014 order that directed the state government to pay compensation to the victims within three months.
> 
> The High Court order was based on the Jammu and Kashmir State Human Rights Commission’s recommendations in 2011 to reopen and reinvestigate the case and to prosecute a senior official, whom it accused of deliberately obstructing the investigation. _The case remained stalled in the Supreme Court throughout 2018. _
> 
> *Continued use of pellet-firing shotgun: *
> Indian security forces continue to use pellet-firing shotguns in the Kashmir Valley as a crowd-control weapon despite concerns as to excessive use of force and the large number of incidental civilian deaths and injuries that have resulted. It should be noted that this weapon is not deployed elsewhere in India.
> 
> As noted in OHCHR’s June 2018 report, the 12- gauge pump-action shotgun firing metal pellets is one of the most dangerous weapons used in Kashmir. On 16 June 2018, a civilian was killed in Anantnag district of South Kashmir after being hit by metal pellets fired by security forces at protesters returning from Eid prayers. The deceased had pellet wounds in his neck and throat.
> 
> In another incident a 19-month-old girl was hit by the metal pellets in her right eye on 25 November 2018. The metal pellets were successfully removed from her eye but doctors were unsure whether she would regain her eyesight completely. According to information from Srinagar’s Shri Maharaja Hari Singh Hospital, where most pellet shotgun injured are treated, 1,253 people have been blinded by the metal pellets used by security forces from mid-2016 to end of 2018.
> 
> *In compliance with the right to life, law enforcement officials, including soldiers charged with law enforcement missions, can only employ “less-lethal” weapons, subject to strict requirements of necessity and proportionality, in situations in which other less harmful measures have proven to be, or clearly are ineffective to address the threat.* “Less-lethal” weapons should be used in situations of crowd control which can be addressed through less harmful means, especially situations involving the exercise of the right to peaceful assembly.
> 
> *Cordon and Search Operations :*
> 
> _So-called “cordon and search operations”, a much-criticized military strategy employed by the Indian security forces in the early 1990s, was reintroduced in the Kashmir Valley in 2017. During the peak of armed insurgency in the 1990s, most extrajudicial killings were associated with cordon and search operations._
> 
> Typically in a cordon and search operation, security forces order all the men of a neighbourhood to come out and assemble for an_ “identification parade in front of hooded informers”._ According to national and international human rights organizations, cordon and search operations enable a range of human rights violations, including physical intimidation and assault, invasion of privacy, arbitrary and unlawful detention, collective punishment and destruction of private property.
> 
> In a September 2018 statement, the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation contact group on Jammu and Kashmir expressed “grave concern over the cordon and search operations in which Kashmir youth are being targeted with impunity”.
> 
> In 2018, civilian deaths were also reported due to excessive use of force during cordon and search operations. On 22 June 2018, a 55-year-old man, Mohammed Yousuf Rather, was allegedly shot when security forces entered his home in Nowshehra village of Anantnag district as part of a local operation.
> 
> He died before reaching the hospital. On 26 September 2018, a 24-year-old man, Mohammed Saleem Malik, was killed during a cordon and search operation near his house in Srinagar’s Noorbagh area.
> 
> JKCCS also recorded 120 cases of destruction of civilian property during cordon and search operations in 2018 including 31 private houses being completely burnt down. Another 18 cases of destruction of civilian property were reported in the first 3 months of 2019. Persons affected have complained that they have not received any compensation.
> 
> *Arbitrary detention: *
> 
> Authorities in Indian-Administered Kashmir continue to use various forms of arbitrary detention to target protesters, political dissidents and other civil society actors. A number of laws in Jammu and Kashmir provide the legal basis for arbitrary detention, but the one that is used most frequently to stifle protests and political dissent is the Jammu and Kashmir Public Safety Act (PSA) 1978.
> 
> The PSA does not provide for a judicial review of detention, and state authorities have defied orders by the Jammu and Kashmir High Court to release people detained under this law by issuing successive detention orders.
> 
> This practice has been used to keep people arbitrarily in detention for several weeks, months, and, in some cases, years. The Supreme Court of India has described the system of administrative detention, including PSA, as a “lawless law”.
> 
> Pro-independence leader Masrat Alam, who was first detained under the PSA in 2010, was charged for the 37th time in November 2018. He was re-arrested under the PSA in apparent contravention of the Supreme Court’s orders that any new detention order against him would not come into effect for a week to help him prepare his legal defence.
> 
> Despite being repeatedly detained under the PSA, Masarat Alam has never been convicted of any charges. Several separatist political leaders were detained under PSA in 2018 and 2019 and continue to be imprisoned.
> 
> In July 2018, the Government of Jammu and Kashmir amended section 10 of the PSA, removing the prohibition on detaining permanent residents of Jammu and Kashmir outside the state.
> 
> At least 40 people, chiefly separatist political leaders charged under the PSA were transferred to prisons outside the state of Jammu and Kashmir in 2018.
> 
> There are fears that the Government’s decision to transfer PSA detainees outside Jammu and Kashmir is a way to punish the detainees further, as this makes it harder for them to be visited by their family members or to meet with their legal counsel.
> 
> In relation to this, some prisons even deny lawyers permission to meet their clients without special court orders. Prisons outside Jammu and Kashmir are also considered hostile for Kashmiri Muslims detainees, especially separatist leaders, as they are treated as “terror suspects”.
> 
> While protesters throwing stones or separatist leaders are usually held initially for three months as a form of preventive detention, authorities extend their detention for three months at a time without producing any new evidence substantiating grounds for their continued detention.
> 
> The state government is obligated under the Jammu and Kashmir Right to Information Act 2009 to publicly provide “detailed reasons, facts and materials that form the basis of this amendment”. However, Jammu and Kashmir authorities have not provided any details on why section 10 of the PSA was amended to allow the transfer of detainees to prisons outside Jammu and Kashmir.
> 
> A right to information (RTI) inquiry revealed that while the PSA Advisory Board110 confirmed almost 99 percent of the detention orders, the Jammu and Kashmir High Court reversed over 81 percent of these detention orders.
> 
> *In May 2018, the State Government further diluted the checks and balances in the application of the PSA by removing the need to consult Jammu and Kashmir High Court Chief Justice while constituting the Advisory Board*.
> 
> OHCHR was informed that despite the Jammu and Kashmir High Court setting aside numerous PSA detention orders, the Jammu and Kashmir authorities continue to detain people by imposing new PSA orders even before suspects leave prisons.
> 
> The United Nations Treaty Bodies and Special Procedures have called on India to amend the PSA to ensure it complies with its international human rights obligations. The Human Rights Committee has noted that the PSA contravenes the rights enshrined in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, especially the rights to liberty and to a free and fair trial.
> 
> While analysing several cases of arbitrary detention under the PSA, the Working Group on Arbitrary Detention observed that, “[the] Government has not refuted the allegation that these persons were detained by security forces under the said Act without serving them with an arrest warrant, which constitutes a violation of due process in detention.”
> 
> As a State Party to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, India is obligated to ensure the principles of legality and the right to liberty and security.
> 
> The right to liberty and security includes the right not to be subjected to arbitrary arrest or detention, the right to know the reasons for one’s detention and charges, if any, the right to be brought before a judge within a reasonable time following arrest or detention, and the right to appeal to a court of law to review the arrest or detention.
> 
> Where persons detained under the PSA have been transferred outside Jammu and Kashmir, the authorities are also obligated to guarantee them, “adequate time and facilities for the preparation of … [a] defence and to communicate with counsel of…[their] own choosing.” . As noted in the OHCHR’s June 2018 report, the Human Rights Committee raised concerns in relation to the system of administrative detention in India and made recommendations which have yet to be fully implemented.
> 
> Likewise, although in 2014 the Committee on the Rights of the Child recommended India that all persons under the age of 18 be handled by the juvenile justice system in all circumstances, and that age verification procedures be consistently and effectively applied, information received by OHCHR indicates that there have been cases of children under 18 years being detained under the PSA in 2018 and 2019.
> 
> *OHCHR was informed that there are several cases where children under the age of 18 were being held in police station lock-ups for several days without charge and were being mistreated, even being required to pay for their meals.*
> 
> In February 2019, the Jammu and Kashmir High Court rescinded an order of the Jammu and Kashmir Director General of Police (Prisons) that sought to shift an “under trial”128 prisoner outside the state. The High Court established that the state was unable to demonstrate that the transfer (of the detainee) was done to meet any administrative exigency or emergency. However, observers have expressed skepticism that this decision will stop the transfer of PSA detainees outside of Jammu and Kashmir.
> 
> Full report here:
> United Nations (ohchr.org)



There's still genocide going on in Xinjiang regardless of what Indians do to the Kashmiri. I'll make an argument that China is worse because they tortured someone for having a beard & reading the Quran so we should focus on them.

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## beijingwalker

China learns anti terror experiences from every country, be them US, Russia, Israel, Pakistan...and who is the author anyway?

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## War Thunder

redtom said:


> Your story shocked me very much.Because Uighurs are returning to China just because they need to renewal.*Didn't forced labor, rape, imprisonment, torture, slaughter scare them?* If they can escape from the concentration camp once to China, they can certainly escape a second time.
> 
> Add a little logic to your story.Don't make yourself look stupid.




You must be dumb or like to play as one on purpose?

I said the problem "started" when they were called back and then never allowed out again.
Use your brain a bit and go search the internet specially when you get to use the actual internet living outside China. Why not look up what happened to so many Uyghur females who were married to people outside and were called back with their kids to never to return?

Or the brainwashing in the name of school education as made your mind incapable of independent research or trusting anything that is not originating from CCP?









Chinese crackdown separates Pakistani husbands from Uighur wives


Men from Gilgit-Baltistan say their spouses are being held in ‘re-education’ camps in Xinjiang




www.theguardian.com












Locked away, forgotten: Muslim Uighur wives of Pakistani men


“They call them schools, but they are prisons,” says Chaudhry Atta who saw his wife over a year ago. “They can’t leave.”



www.dawn.com

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## redtom

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL ask the chinese gov what they actually think about Israel
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1376364494230671362


You need to update your knowledge, China is the new anti-Semitic country now.   








以色列大使指中国官媒“公然反犹” | DW | 20.05.2021


中国官媒CGTN制作的一档时政节目引起以色列驻华使馆的抗议，称该节目内容包含“公然的反犹主义”。




www.dw.com












以色列指责中国国家电视台“公然反犹”


中国环球电视网（CGTN）在星期二（5月18日）播出的一档节目中讨论了目前的巴以冲突，以色列驻华大使馆对节目内容表示抗议，称其为“公然的反犹太主义”。以色列驻华大使馆对中国官媒公然表达反犹主义感到震惊。大使馆在推特上表示：“我们曾希望‘犹太人控制世界’的阴谋论时代已经结束，但不幸的是，反犹主义再次露出了丑陋的嘴脸。”




www.voachinese.com

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## War Thunder

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL ask the chinese gov what they actually think about Israel
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1376364494230671362




Just like most Israelis, or actually more than the Israelis. The Chinese are brainwashed through education and they grow up to be incapable of independent research. Name one Chinese who criticizes their government for giving them no freedom or access to free data/internet.

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## jamahir

Reashot Xigwin said:


> It started when communists members tortured then murdered dozens of Generals & high ranking officers & dumped their body in a well.



I doubt that. It seems as phony as Gaddafi's soldiers "killing civilians, including women and children" in early 2011. Or it was a false flag operation. Or those killed people were traitors / mullah supporters / Western agents.



Reashot Xigwin said:


>



What does the poster say ?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> The PKI made deal with china to have them supplied with 100k guns (mostly SKS if you're a nerd) with Zhou Enlai himself giving them a green light.



So the Western bloc ( even a changed China ) could provide guns, RPGs and later anti-aircraft missiles to criminals ( the so-called mujahideen ) in Afghanstan for years during the 1980s but the earlier China could not provide guns to the PKI ? Hypocrisy.

What about the Western bloc providing armaments to the Libyan and Syrian "rebels" ? Turkish military and intelligence even provided the Syrian "rebels" with chemical warfare elements.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> You outsider have no idea how close we are to a civil war & be taken over by the communists.



So you are Indonesian ( your flags aren't visible ) ? What is your problem with the PKI ? With the communists generally ? Or with Communism ?

Below is the google result for "Communism" :


> Communism is a philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state.Wikipedia


Is these not a wonderful bunch of ideas ?

BTW, are you a Muslim ?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com



OK, internment for going on hajj is too much but...

As I said the part of the recent trend of young men growing Tablighi-style beards is not good. It is suspicious.

Also, making a grand show of doing public prayer ( like in an airplane, or I even saw a pic of a taxi driver on top of his car on a main road in an American city ) with all the postures, doesn't it seem unnecessary ? Why can't they do the prayer ( in public ) without the postures ? Such people simply want to appear outwardly pious without understanding the philosophy of Islam. I am sure such people would have been fanatic idolators against The Last Messenger during his time.

As for the other recent fashion of wearing a veil, why should it be worn ? The burqa / veil has nothing to do with Islam.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

War Thunder said:


> Just like most Israelis, or actually more than the Israelis. The Chinese are brainwashed through education and they grow up to be incapable of independent research. Name one Chinese who criticizes their government for giving them no freedom or access to free data/internet.



The problems with the chinese here is that they can't take a joke & takes everything too seriously. If they see one article criticizing china they go all REEEEEE and said that the entire western world is against them & if they see one article that praise china they take it as a gospel & show it to everybody here about how superior they are to everyone.

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## redtom

War Thunder said:


> You must be dumb or like to play as one on purpose?
> 
> I said the problem "started" when they were called back and then never allowed out again.
> Use your brain a bit and go search the internet specially when you get to use the actual internet living outside China. Why not look up what happened to so many Uyghur females who were married to people outside and were called back with their kids to never to return?
> 
> Or the brainwashing in the name of school education as made your mind incapable of independent research or trusting anything that is not originating from CCP?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese crackdown separates Pakistani husbands from Uighur wives
> 
> 
> Men from Gilgit-Baltistan say their spouses are being held in ‘re-education’ camps in Xinjiang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Locked away, forgotten: Muslim Uighur wives of Pakistani men
> 
> 
> “They call them schools, but they are prisons,” says Chaudhry Atta who saw his wife over a year ago. “They can’t leave.”
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com


Please give me real media not FAKE NEWS. 

The criteria were always against the evidence of WMD in Iraq displayed by the US, no Anglo-Saxons employed, no history of colonialism, and no military threat from the US.

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## War Thunder

redtom said:


> Please give me real media not FAKE NEWS.
> 
> The criteria were always against the evidence of WMD in Iraq displayed by the US, no Anglo-Saxons employed, no history of colonialism, and no military threat from the US.




Real media is what? CCP media?


Reashot Xigwin said:


> The problems with the chinese here is that they can't take a joke & takes everything too seriously. If they see one article criticizing china they go all REEEEEE and said that the entire western world is against them & if they see one article that praise china they take it as a gospel & show it to everybody here about how superior they are to everyone.




Isn't that exactly what we call programmed minds?

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## redtom

War Thunder said:


> Real media is what? CCP media?


Simply put, media you don't believe is real media.

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## Reashot Xigwin

jamahir said:


> I doubt that. It seems as phony as Gaddafi's soldiers "killing civilians, including women and children" in early 2011. Or it was a false flag operation. Or those killed people were traitors / mullah supporters / Western agents.
> 
> 
> 
> What does the poster say ?
> 
> 
> 
> So the Western bloc ( even a changed China ) could provide guns, RPGs and later anti-aircraft missiles to criminals ( the so-called mujahideen ) in Afghanstan for years during the 1980s but the earlier China could not provide guns to the PKI ? Hypocrisy.
> 
> What about the Western bloc providing armaments to the Libyan and Syrian "rebels" ? Turkish military and intelligence even provided the Syrian "rebels" with chemical warfare elements.
> 
> 
> 
> So you are Indonesian ( your flags aren't visible ) ? What is your problem with the PKI ? With the communists generally ? Or with Communism ?
> 
> Below is the google result for "Communism" :
> 
> Is these not a wonderful bunch of ideas ?
> 
> BTW, are you a Muslim ?
> 
> 
> 
> OK, internment for going on hajj is too much but...
> 
> As I said the part of the recent trend of young men growing Tablighi-style beards is not good. It is suspicious.
> 
> Also, making a grand show of doing public prayer ( like in an airplane, or I even saw a pic of a taxi driver on top of his car on a main road in an American city ) with all the postures, doesn't it seem unnecessary ? Why can't they do the prayer ( in public ) without the postures ? Such people simply want to appear outwardly pious without understanding the philosophy of Islam. I am sure such people would have been fanatic idolators against The Last Messenger during his time.
> 
> As for the other recent fashion of wearing a veil, why should it be worn ? The burqa / veil has nothing to do with Islam.



The poster is in indonesian it say what I already post earlier 100k guns are planning to be transferred to be sent to the Indonesian 5th column with Zhoe Enlai permission. That's the summary of it.

Look whatever happens in Xinjiang is confirmed by Chinese own government's sources. All the westerners does is just translate it.


----------



## jamahir

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The poster is in indonesian it say what I already post earlier 100k guns are planning to be transferred to be sent to the Indonesian 5th column with Zhoe Enlai permission. That's the summary of it.



Is "5th column" your wording or is it in the poster ?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Look whatever happens in Xinjiang is confirmed by Chinese own government's sources. All the westerners does is just translate it.



Well, I am more concerned about the continuation of Syria's Muslim-majority progressive country status than any Western government perceived atrocity against the Muslims of Xinjiang. So I will give the topic a rest for now.

But before exiting that topic I will mention a Pakistan female student in Beijing who does vlogs ( I forgot her YouTube channel name ) who said in one vid that she wanted to travel to Xinjiang for Ramzan but it was too far. Surely she wouldn't be allowed to go there by the Chinese government if things were not alright there. Not going there was her choice. Too far to there.


----------



## mike2000 is back

War Thunder said:


> There you have it. The question was asked and he had this once chance to answer it for his public and he spoke what he had to.
> 
> Did he say there is no problem? There is no genocide? No mistreatment? No harassment?
> 
> Or did he acknowledge the existence of a problem that he wanted to address internally "because of the benefits they get from being on good terms with China"?
> 
> 
> If most of you Pakistanis still want to live in denial or carry on with your "corrupt" or "ignorant" behavior (instead of relying on personal research). Then I hope you do understand the crime you are all taking part in. If you still have souls that remind you of being on the right side of things for at least the part of knowing it to be a wrong in your heart (the lowest state of imaan).


Dude, you are trying to talk on a moral high ground (whichbi have issues with actually). However I don't like hypocrisy as well. Why don't you guys also speak out for others who are going through even worse in other parts of the world? Look at those of western Sahara who have been oppressed/marginalised and denied their rights and country occupation for decades by Morocco a Muslim country ironically. I don't see anyone talking about that even worse many are actually supporting them. Same with Indonesia's human right abuses and oppression against the people of Papua who have been fighting for their independence/rights and freedom for decades now. I could name even more cases of those who have been suffering far more abuses/oppression in Asia, Africa, Latin America and other parts of the world for decades now but which nobody here even cares about much. Lol
In short we can draw a conclusion from this that it's not about morality/empathy per se as some would want us believe. But about something much more like say : religion? Especially when the culprits are non Muslim or something 🤔

Don't get me wrong , I'm not against your empathy and support for the Uygurs Muslims, I admire your support for those suffering actually. However, if it was not limited to just one community (especially when concerning one that doesn't share similar religious belief) then it will look more genuine .


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## Globenim

Person: Despite Israel connections they are losing the media war
U.S. regime propaganda and selfproclaimed "media": What connections?
Person: They have media influence?
U.S. regime propaganda and selfproclaimed "media": Thats racism

Person: There are calls to end the fighting and the UN failed to end the fighting
U.S. regime propaganda: Cool opinion but can you please stop the racism?

U.S. regime propaganda: Can you please confirm that you are racist and condemn it?
Person: Im not making any racist claims
U.S. regime propaganda: Im offended by your racism

lol its just a silly monologue of a total hypocrite pressing people to make concessions to the U.S. regimes side and agree to onsided talkingpoints they can then rip out of context and hang on 😂

And he gave this pawn of a U.S. regime propaganda mouthpiece the right answer:
There is nothing worth to talk about regarding China or that needs a international attention. There is no issue that needs to be denied or condemned. There are no mentionworthy human rights issues in China that deserve any foreign government level expression of concern for human rights, as opposed to victims of Americas bombs which are a fact.

She just like the rest of the U.S. regime are liars. Fabricating such issues is their business. Just making false accussations about about China pays her salary. Making someone just naively acknowledge hypothetical problems as problematic or even show concern about the possibility is already like hitting on a goldmine for them, because their concern is obviously not any issues on the ground, but the slander itself to undermine the victims of the U.S.A. Disregarding their bullshit and going back to reality is the way to go. Feeding these trolls is the worst you can do.

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## War Thunder

mike2000 is back said:


> Dude, you are trying to talk on a moral high ground (whichbi have issues with actually). However I don't like hypocrisy as well. Why don't you guys also speak out for others who are going through even worse in other parts of the world? Look at those of western Sahara who have been oppressed/marginalised and denied their rights and country occupation for decades by Morocco a Muslim country ironically. I don't see anyone talking about that even worse many are actually supporting them. Same with Indonesia's human right abuses and oppression against the people of Papua who have been fighting for their independence/rights and freedom for decades now. I could name even more cases of those who have been suffering far more abuses/oppression in Asia, Africa, Latin America and other parts of the world for decades now but which nobody here even cares about much. Lol
> In short we can draw a conclusion from this that it's not about morality/empathy per se as some would want us believe. But about something much more like say : religion? Especially when the culprits are non Muslim or something 🤔
> 
> Don't get me wrong , I'm not against your empathy and support for the Uygurs Muslims, I admire your support for those suffering actually. However, if it was not limited to just one community (especially when concerning one that doesn't share similar religious belief) then it will look more genuine .




I am not without empathy for any one else suffering anywhere. If you were to fall victim to some oppressor tomorrow, you'll have my support as well.
Chinese Uyghurs are discussed more because I have my country men unable to open eyes and see what's actually going on in their own neighborhood and at the hands of their own ally.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

War Thunder said:


> lol kid
> Half the problem started when some of the Uyghurs living outside China went back only because they were called for paper renewal and never returned.
> 
> You are living outside China, you have no clue what your power hungry regime has turned into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What stops you from doing independent research instead of keeping your head buried in sand?
> What facts have you gathered so far to claim otherwise to what Western media claims? What logic have you used to convince yourself if any?





There was plenty of "independent eevidence by the usual suspects to "prove" that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins.......xxxxxxx..........

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## cocomo

PakAlp said:


> Shame on Muslim countries if they know its happening but are staying quiet


I doubt all of them would stay quiet if things are as worse as you are projecting - forcing women into unwanted marriages, etc. Shit like this is a classic tactic by the West to rouse Muslim emotions, "Muslim women are getting raped left right and center.". The worse that is happening is forced de-radicalization, its like what our Army did to re-educate captured Taliban terrorists. Hui Muslims go to mosques, celebrate their festivals, etc etc. So Chinese problem isn't with "Muslims", it is with separatists like ETIM who are either motivated by Salafi Jihadism or their Turkic nationalism.

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## beijingwalker

*Russian comedy, RT: Xinjiang "forced labor".......Sorry, I took the wrong script*

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## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

cocomo said:


> I doubt all of them would stay quiet if things are as worse as you are projecting - forcing women into unwanted marriages, etc. Shit like this is a classic tactic by the West to rouse Muslim emotions, "Muslim women are getting raped left right and center.". The worse that is happening is forced de-radicalization, its like what our Army did to re-educate captured Taliban terrorists. Hui Muslims go to mosques, celebrate their festivals, etc etc. So Chinese problem isn't with "Muslims", it is with separatists like ETIM who are either motivated by Salafi Jihadism or their Turkic nationalism.



It doesn't have issues with Salafi Jihadism because they have been leaving china in big junks since the 1980s to elsewhere by themselves because it is illegal for them to wage war on China.. They are outnumbered by billions and in fact they are just a tiny friction of the population.. They are only 8m and are truly like a drop in the sand. In such occassion Jihad is haram and illegal but Hijrah is halal migrating from that territory to another territory and that is what the salafis have been doing leaving China since the 80s approx. 2 million uighur salafis left china but it is the democratic activists overseas giving china hard time but China has zero Salafi issues.. I also noticed the salafis were wealthy majority of them in China before leaving.

The democratic activists are being used by the western propaganda to isolate China in the world via the Uighur card. The US wants the Muslim nations to be forceful against china and put blockade on it and muslim nations account for 25% of the world countries 51 sovereign states. This whole thing is for a well planned political assassination against China and they have been spamming it endless despite it being fake news but it has the intention of killing China's image. The Americans know the Muslims are irrational haters who don't forgive that easily so they wanna use that sentiment to paint China the villian and use the muslims as assistants in the long term war between herself and China

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## Menace2Society

Mohamed Bin Tughlaq said:


> It doesn't have issues with Salafi Jihadism because they have been leaving china in big junks since the 1980s to elsewhere by themselves because it is illegal for them to wage war on China.. They are outnumbered by billions and in fact they are just a tiny friction of the population.. They are only 8m and are truly like a drop in the sand. In such occassion Jihad is haram and illegal but Hijrah is halal migrating from that territory to another territory and that is what the salafis have been doing leaving China since the 80s approx. 2 million uighur salafis left china but it is the democratic activists overseas giving china hard time but China has zero Salafi issues.. I also noticed the salafis were wealthy majority of them in China before leaving.
> 
> The democratic activists are being used by the western propaganda to isolate China in the world via the Uighur card. The US wants the Muslim nations to be forceful against china and put blockade on it and muslim nations account for 25% of the world countries 51 sovereign states. This whole thing is for a well planned political assassination against China and they have been spamming it endless despite it being fake news but it has the intention of killing China's image. The Americans know the Muslims are irrational haters who don't forgive that easily so they wanna use that sentiment to paint China the villian and use the muslims as assistants in the long term war between herself and China



Absolutely, Pakistan must not take the bait and I know they won't, Sun Tzu will make sure of that.

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## Mad Scientist 2.0

The whataboutery is staggering just because others are doing it doesn't mean chinese are not doing it if anyone remain complicit they can be but that doesn't imply that narratives are fake.


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## charene514

I like the way chinese treat Muslims.. with total grace and respect


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## Beast

Reashot Xigwin said:


> There's still genocide going on in Xinjiang regardless of what Indians do to the Kashmiri. I'll make an argument that China is worse because they tortured someone for having a beard & reading the Quran so we should focus on them.


Of cos, becos it suit your anti China agenda rather than real concern for muslim.





__





China's upcoming report on US human rights violations shows 2020 'a declining point' of American democracy - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn






charene514 said:


> I like the way chinese treat Muslims.. with total grace and respect







Indian Hindu are king in this area!

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## master_13

Reashot Xigwin said:


> There's still genocide going on in Xinjiang regardless of what Indians do to the Kashmiri. I'll make an argument that China is worse because they tortured someone for having a beard & reading the Quran so we should focus on them.



yep genocide, yet west still can't come up with one single dead body attributable to the so called "genocide" to date, yes, not a single dead body to date.

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## master_13

west to date still can't come up with one single dead body attributable to the so called "genocide", if you want to claim genocide, please come up with dead bodies, even one.

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## Reashot Xigwin

mike2000 is back said:


> Dude, you are trying to talk on a moral high ground (whichbi have issues with actually). However I don't like hypocrisy as well. Why don't you guys also speak out for others who are going through even worse in other parts of the world? Look at those of western Sahara who have been oppressed/marginalised and denied their rights and country occupation for decades by Morocco a Muslim country ironically. I don't see anyone talking about that even worse many are actually supporting them. Same with Indonesia's human right abuses and oppression against the people of Papua who have been fighting for their independence/rights and freedom for decades now. I could name even more cases of those who have been suffering far more abuses/oppression in Asia, Africa, Latin America and other parts of the world for decades now but which nobody here even cares about much. Lol
> In short we can draw a conclusion from this that it's not about morality/empathy per se as some would want us believe. But about something much more like say : religion? Especially when the culprits are non Muslim or something 🤔
> 
> Don't get me wrong , I'm not against your empathy and support for the Uygurs Muslims, I admire your support for those suffering actually. However, if it was not limited to just one community (especially when concerning one that doesn't share similar religious belief) then it will look more genuine .



I think we can all agree that there's a lot of messed up human rights violations all over the world. And we all be hypocritical if we just focus on just a few of them. But can we all agree that torturing someone for having a beard is going a step too far? And that's just a few of the things that can get you tortured in china.






Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com


----------



## beijingwalker

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I think we can all agree that there's a lot of messed up human rights violations all over the world. And we all be hypocritical if we just focus on just a few of them.


Seems like you only focus on China, not so called human rights violations all over the world.


Reashot Xigwin said:


> But can we all agree that torturing someone for having a beard is going a step too far? And that's just a few of the things that can get you tortured in china.



beard...?

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## beijingwalker

Reashot Xigwin said:


> nice try commie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com


Can you see that the guy in the video having beard or you are just blind?


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## Reashot Xigwin

beijingwalker said:


> Can you see that the guy in the video having beard or you are just blind?



Or can you tell a difference between a government op piece & reality?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392722062326763522


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## cocomo

Mohamed Bin Tughlaq said:


> They are only 8m and are truly like a drop in the sand. In such occassion Jihad is haram and illegal but Hijrah is halal migrating from that territory to another territory and that is what the salafis have been doing leaving China since the 80s


What Jihad are you talking about? You mean terrorism against civilians, blowing oneself up among people of specific ethnic group. On the contrary Islam recommends one follow the laws of non-Islamic country you are citizens of as long as they don't prohibit you from practicing your faith. Hui Muslims are clearly an example of peaceful coexistence with Han Chinese. Any country would react harshly to separatism or Jihadism especially Salafi version of throat cutting Jihad on kuffar civilians. 
Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP) aka East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) is a Salafi terrorist group alligned with other salafi terrorists like Al Qaeda/ Al Nusra and pledged allegence to Al-Qaeda's head Zarqawi, *its aim is to create a Islamic state in China*. They have their bases in Afghanistan and Syria's Idlib.

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## beijingwalker

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Or can you tell a difference between a government op piece & reality?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392722062326763522


Does " no one" include the Uighur Islamic leader here? Do you trust your own eyes?


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## Reashot Xigwin

beijingwalker said:


> Does " no one" include the Uighur Islamic leader here? Do you trust your own eyes?



People up top are given special privileges? Never heard of anything more ridiculous in my life....


----------



## Beast

Reashot Xigwin said:


> nice try commie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com


@waz @LeGenD @krash 

Some decide to go personal with insult after losing the argument.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Beast said:


> @waz @LeGenD @krash
> 
> Some decide to go personal with insult after losing the argument.



The argument is defending genocide u mean?
Trust your eyes the chinese here said:

Also China:




B**ch lied

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## Beast

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The argument is defending genocide u mean?
> Trust your eyes the chinese here said:
> 
> Also China:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B**ch lied


For your slur. Enjoy your vacation and see China grow stronger every day. 

@waz @LeGenD @krash

I think this forum decide to double down his flout of forum rules.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Beast said:


> For your slur. Enjoy your vacation and see China grow stronger every day.



China gets weaker everyday why do you think the philppines are starting to stand against china?

You have absolutely have no idea how power politics works.

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## Beast

Reashot Xigwin said:


> China gets weaker everyday why do you think the philppines are starting to stand against china?
> 
> You have absolutely have no idea how power politics works.


Really? What happened to Philippines with China?









Philippines' Duterte issues gag order on cabinet over South China Sea spat


Tensions between the Philippines and China have escalated since March. . Read more at straitstimes.com.




www.straitstimes.com

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## Reashot Xigwin

Beast said:


> Really? What happened to Philippines with China?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Philippines' Duterte issues gag order on cabinet over South China Sea spat
> 
> 
> Tensions between the Philippines and China have escalated since March. . Read more at straitstimes.com.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.straitstimes.com



As always the chinese never learn how to critically read a news article.







https://www.aninews.in/news/world/asia/chinas-rising-assertiveness-made-it-impossible-for--duterte-to-advance-pro-beijing-foreign-policy-report20210525165714/










You guys have no Idea how lucky china is with Duterte you guys basically have a once in the century pro china leader in the philippines now what you get next will be a pro-US one & they will likely bring back the US into the dispute.

https://www.rand.org/blog/2021/05/china-has-lost-the-philippines-despite-dutertes-best.html

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## Beast

Reashot Xigwin said:


> As always the chinese never learn how to critically read a news article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.aninews.in/news/world/asia/chinas-rising-assertiveness-made-it-impossible-for--duterte-to-advance-pro-beijing-foreign-policy-report20210525165714/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 747980
> 
> 
> You guys have no Idea how lucky china is with Duterte you guys basically have a once in the century pro china leader in the philippines now what you get next will be a pro-US one & they will likely bring back the US into the dispute.
> 
> https://www.rand.org/blog/2021/05/china-has-lost-the-philippines-despite-dutertes-best.html


These US sponsor Philippines politician wouldn't last longer than duterte. Trust me, those few island are not worth the bickering with China than the benefit of China investment. 

Look at indonesia. By stating neutral stance and tone down on natunas issue. The submarine free rescue effort from China and world class HSR coming. A win win situation.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Beast said:


> These US sponsor Philippines politician wouldn't last longer than duterte. Trust me, those few island are not worth the bickering with China than the benefit of China investment.
> 
> Look at indonesia. By stating neutral stance and tone down on natunas issue. The submarine free rescue effort from China and world class HSR coming. A win win situation.



Another chinese delusions:








How Jokowi bested China, while Duterte ended up a lackey


How Jokowi bested China, while Duterte ended up a lackey Indonesia and Philippines use very different strategies in dealing with Beijing Richard Heydarian March 29, 2021 17:00 JST Despite five years of servility, China's President Xi Jinping has rewarded has Philippine counterpart Rodrigo...



defence.pk






> While Duterte's yearslong kowtow to China has brought him not one single big-ticket investment so far, Jokowi's more dignified and sophisticated strategy has secured optimal investment, as well as the early delivery of millions of Chinese-made COVID-19 vaccines. One batch finally arrived at the beginning of the month, and another batch last week for a total of one million shots.
> 
> The unmistakable lesson, it seems, is that China treats meek leaders such as Duterte with contempt, but will strike mutually beneficial deals with the likes of Jokowi, who has consistently refused to be intimidated by Asia's superpower. In recent years, Duterte and Jokowi, have been the face of populist politics in Southeast Asia. Both are former provincial mayors who rose to the pinnacle of power by campaigning against a corrupt establishment.
> 
> While Duterte has portrayed himself as a man of the people, Jokowi has made proactive service to ordinary citizens the centerpiece of his agenda. Both have adopted tough-on-crime policies, especially toward narcotics.
> Crucially, both presidents have staked their development agenda on Chinese largesse, much to the chagrin of conservative forces who have accused them of acting as Beijing's stooges. And yet, Jokowi managed to develop a relatively fruitful relationship based on mutual respect, while Duterte has been left swinging.



Point is we get more from china by confronting the country. While Philippines don't despite the constant brown nosing. 

*Indonesia regards China as its only realistic near-term military foe, with a specific potential for military confrontation over its Natuna Islands near the South China Sea*








Regional Responses to U.S.-China Competition in the Indo-Pacific: Indonesia


The U.S. Department of Defense's 2018 National Defense Strategy highlights the importance of working with regional allies and partners in order to manage China's rise as a strategic competitor to the United States in the Indo-Pacific region. In this country-level report in a series, the author...




www.rand.org





How do you feel that your money going into making us stronger so we can better go up against you. Kinda ironic isn't it?


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## Reashot Xigwin

A timeline of destruction








Cultural Destruction Timeline - Xinjiang Documentation Project


This timeline outlines state efforts to regulate religious and cultural expression in Xinjiang.




xinjiang.sppga.ubc.ca


----------



## Cheehg

The number jumped from 1 million to 3 millions now. I thought USA just said Xinjiang is an open prison so it should be 25 millions. Next time USA will say it is 1.4 billion. 

Meanwhile the real open prison of Gaza USA helped to build has millions Muslims badly needed help.

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## tower9

So stock photos, wild allegations and no proof. Same shit different day. Too bad it’s enough to fool most people though.

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## charene514

RescueRanger said:


> To Indian forum members getting giddy in this thread. Just remember, that those who live in *glass houses* should not *throw stones**. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India can't talk about Human Rights abuses, especially considering the rap sheet of offences and violations in Kashmir.
> 
> *Kunan Poshpora Mass Rape:*
> According to survivors and a local administration official, on the night of 23 February 1991, *soldiers from the 4 Rajputana Rifles regiment of the Indian Army gang-raped around 23 women of Kunan and Poshpora villages of Kupwara district, Jammu and Kashmir. *Details of this case were covered in OHCHR’s June 2018 report.
> 
> There has been no progress in the Kunan Poshpora mass rape case from 1991,154 and authorities continue to thwart attempts of the survivors to get justice. The state government petitioned the Supreme Court against the Jammu and Kashmir High Court’s 2014 order that directed the state government to pay compensation to the victims within three months.
> 
> The High Court order was based on the Jammu and Kashmir State Human Rights Commission’s recommendations in 2011 to reopen and reinvestigate the case and to prosecute a senior official, whom it accused of deliberately obstructing the investigation. _The case remained stalled in the Supreme Court throughout 2018. _
> 
> *Continued use of pellet-firing shotgun: *
> Indian security forces continue to use pellet-firing shotguns in the Kashmir Valley as a crowd-control weapon despite concerns as to excessive use of force and the large number of incidental civilian deaths and injuries that have resulted. It should be noted that this weapon is not deployed elsewhere in India.
> 
> As noted in OHCHR’s June 2018 report, the 12- gauge pump-action shotgun firing metal pellets is one of the most dangerous weapons used in Kashmir. On 16 June 2018, a civilian was killed in Anantnag district of South Kashmir after being hit by metal pellets fired by security forces at protesters returning from Eid prayers. The deceased had pellet wounds in his neck and throat.
> 
> In another incident a 19-month-old girl was hit by the metal pellets in her right eye on 25 November 2018. The metal pellets were successfully removed from her eye but doctors were unsure whether she would regain her eyesight completely. According to information from Srinagar’s Shri Maharaja Hari Singh Hospital, where most pellet shotgun injured are treated, 1,253 people have been blinded by the metal pellets used by security forces from mid-2016 to end of 2018.
> 
> *In compliance with the right to life, law enforcement officials, including soldiers charged with law enforcement missions, can only employ “less-lethal” weapons, subject to strict requirements of necessity and proportionality, in situations in which other less harmful measures have proven to be, or clearly are ineffective to address the threat.* “Less-lethal” weapons should be used in situations of crowd control which can be addressed through less harmful means, especially situations involving the exercise of the right to peaceful assembly.
> 
> *Cordon and Search Operations :*
> 
> _So-called “cordon and search operations”, a much-criticized military strategy employed by the Indian security forces in the early 1990s, was reintroduced in the Kashmir Valley in 2017. During the peak of armed insurgency in the 1990s, most extrajudicial killings were associated with cordon and search operations._
> 
> Typically in a cordon and search operation, security forces order all the men of a neighbourhood to come out and assemble for an_ “identification parade in front of hooded informers”._ According to national and international human rights organizations, cordon and search operations enable a range of human rights violations, including physical intimidation and assault, invasion of privacy, arbitrary and unlawful detention, collective punishment and destruction of private property.
> 
> In a September 2018 statement, the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation contact group on Jammu and Kashmir expressed “grave concern over the cordon and search operations in which Kashmir youth are being targeted with impunity”.
> 
> In 2018, civilian deaths were also reported due to excessive use of force during cordon and search operations. On 22 June 2018, a 55-year-old man, Mohammed Yousuf Rather, was allegedly shot when security forces entered his home in Nowshehra village of Anantnag district as part of a local operation.
> 
> He died before reaching the hospital. On 26 September 2018, a 24-year-old man, Mohammed Saleem Malik, was killed during a cordon and search operation near his house in Srinagar’s Noorbagh area.
> 
> JKCCS also recorded 120 cases of destruction of civilian property during cordon and search operations in 2018 including 31 private houses being completely burnt down. Another 18 cases of destruction of civilian property were reported in the first 3 months of 2019. Persons affected have complained that they have not received any compensation.
> 
> *Arbitrary detention: *
> 
> Authorities in Indian-Administered Kashmir continue to use various forms of arbitrary detention to target protesters, political dissidents and other civil society actors. A number of laws in Jammu and Kashmir provide the legal basis for arbitrary detention, but the one that is used most frequently to stifle protests and political dissent is the Jammu and Kashmir Public Safety Act (PSA) 1978.
> 
> The PSA does not provide for a judicial review of detention, and state authorities have defied orders by the Jammu and Kashmir High Court to release people detained under this law by issuing successive detention orders.
> 
> This practice has been used to keep people arbitrarily in detention for several weeks, months, and, in some cases, years. The Supreme Court of India has described the system of administrative detention, including PSA, as a “lawless law”.
> 
> Pro-independence leader Masrat Alam, who was first detained under the PSA in 2010, was charged for the 37th time in November 2018. He was re-arrested under the PSA in apparent contravention of the Supreme Court’s orders that any new detention order against him would not come into effect for a week to help him prepare his legal defence.
> 
> Despite being repeatedly detained under the PSA, Masarat Alam has never been convicted of any charges. Several separatist political leaders were detained under PSA in 2018 and 2019 and continue to be imprisoned.
> 
> In July 2018, the Government of Jammu and Kashmir amended section 10 of the PSA, removing the prohibition on detaining permanent residents of Jammu and Kashmir outside the state.
> 
> At least 40 people, chiefly separatist political leaders charged under the PSA were transferred to prisons outside the state of Jammu and Kashmir in 2018.
> 
> There are fears that the Government’s decision to transfer PSA detainees outside Jammu and Kashmir is a way to punish the detainees further, as this makes it harder for them to be visited by their family members or to meet with their legal counsel.
> 
> In relation to this, some prisons even deny lawyers permission to meet their clients without special court orders. Prisons outside Jammu and Kashmir are also considered hostile for Kashmiri Muslims detainees, especially separatist leaders, as they are treated as “terror suspects”.
> 
> While protesters throwing stones or separatist leaders are usually held initially for three months as a form of preventive detention, authorities extend their detention for three months at a time without producing any new evidence substantiating grounds for their continued detention.
> 
> The state government is obligated under the Jammu and Kashmir Right to Information Act 2009 to publicly provide “detailed reasons, facts and materials that form the basis of this amendment”. However, Jammu and Kashmir authorities have not provided any details on why section 10 of the PSA was amended to allow the transfer of detainees to prisons outside Jammu and Kashmir.
> 
> A right to information (RTI) inquiry revealed that while the PSA Advisory Board110 confirmed almost 99 percent of the detention orders, the Jammu and Kashmir High Court reversed over 81 percent of these detention orders.
> 
> *In May 2018, the State Government further diluted the checks and balances in the application of the PSA by removing the need to consult Jammu and Kashmir High Court Chief Justice while constituting the Advisory Board*.
> 
> OHCHR was informed that despite the Jammu and Kashmir High Court setting aside numerous PSA detention orders, the Jammu and Kashmir authorities continue to detain people by imposing new PSA orders even before suspects leave prisons.
> 
> The United Nations Treaty Bodies and Special Procedures have called on India to amend the PSA to ensure it complies with its international human rights obligations. The Human Rights Committee has noted that the PSA contravenes the rights enshrined in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, especially the rights to liberty and to a free and fair trial.
> 
> While analysing several cases of arbitrary detention under the PSA, the Working Group on Arbitrary Detention observed that, “[the] Government has not refuted the allegation that these persons were detained by security forces under the said Act without serving them with an arrest warrant, which constitutes a violation of due process in detention.”
> 
> As a State Party to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, India is obligated to ensure the principles of legality and the right to liberty and security.
> 
> The right to liberty and security includes the right not to be subjected to arbitrary arrest or detention, the right to know the reasons for one’s detention and charges, if any, the right to be brought before a judge within a reasonable time following arrest or detention, and the right to appeal to a court of law to review the arrest or detention.
> 
> Where persons detained under the PSA have been transferred outside Jammu and Kashmir, the authorities are also obligated to guarantee them, “adequate time and facilities for the preparation of … [a] defence and to communicate with counsel of…[their] own choosing.” . As noted in the OHCHR’s June 2018 report, the Human Rights Committee raised concerns in relation to the system of administrative detention in India and made recommendations which have yet to be fully implemented.
> 
> Likewise, although in 2014 the Committee on the Rights of the Child recommended India that all persons under the age of 18 be handled by the juvenile justice system in all circumstances, and that age verification procedures be consistently and effectively applied, information received by OHCHR indicates that there have been cases of children under 18 years being detained under the PSA in 2018 and 2019.
> 
> *OHCHR was informed that there are several cases where children under the age of 18 were being held in police station lock-ups for several days without charge and were being mistreated, even being required to pay for their meals.*
> 
> In February 2019, the Jammu and Kashmir High Court rescinded an order of the Jammu and Kashmir Director General of Police (Prisons) that sought to shift an “under trial”128 prisoner outside the state. The High Court established that the state was unable to demonstrate that the transfer (of the detainee) was done to meet any administrative exigency or emergency. However, observers have expressed skepticism that this decision will stop the transfer of PSA detainees outside of Jammu and Kashmir.
> 
> Full report here:
> United Nations (ohchr.org)




Dont pollute this thread with your shit. Create your own thread. Stay on topic ! 

Topic is about mass rapes and concentration camps for uighurs in china...

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## denel

AViet said:


> How come this kind of bullshit fake news are still being allowed to post here?


It is not fake like your fake id.

If you dont agree, go elsewhere.

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## denel

War Thunder said:


> some times I also wonder how much you get paid per post on this forum?
> Is it good enough for a monthly wage?


correct... these folks are getting really really annoying. i wonder why the moderators are keeping them around. these are state actors designed to push their ccp narrative; 

man, it is really pathetic overall. 

remember, they have a population who dont work just sit on keyboards; so the propaganda ministry said, let us use them. I guess they dont have good online games or social life so they are here to feel great and propagate.

I wonder if they do have income tax on such income?


Reashot Xigwin said:


> There's still genocide going on in Xinjiang regardless of what Indians do to the Kashmiri. I'll make an argument that China is worse because they tortured someone for having a beard & reading the Quran so we should focus on them.



These CCP actors deliberately will try to slander and sway from the narrative. It is a repeated practise including whataboutism.

there is genocide happening and it is a fact;


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## denel

OP-ED: South Africa should take the lead in criticising the cultural genocide in Xinjiang


The Chinese regime’s campaign against the Uyghur, Kazakh and others is already a genocide, as in ‘acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such’, and meets all five criteria of genocide.




www.dailymaverick.co.za





*South Africa should take the lead in criticising the cultural genocide in Xinjiang*
*By Magnus Fiskesjö• 28 July 2019*

Acehnese Muslims in Banda Aceh, Indonesia, take part in a protest rally in support of Muslims in China. (Photo: EPA-EFE / Hotli Simanjuntak)

*The Chinese regime’s campaign against the Uyghur, Kazakh and others is already a genocide, as in ‘acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such’, and meets all five criteria of genocide.*



Call me a naïve foreigner, but despite everything, I still think of South Africa as a beacon of human rights in the world. This is, after all, the country that overcame apartheid and set an example for the world with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which I followed from afar with great admiration.
Thus I was relieved when I saw that South Africa and some other important African counties such as Ethiopia were _not _on the list of the 37 countries organised by the Chinese government recently to support its actions in Xinjiang at the UN human rights forum in Geneva.

I told friends that there might even be hope that South Africa could take the lead in criticising the mass campaign of forced cultural assimilation and concentration camps now underway in the province of Xinjiang. Other than global opinion, or perhaps sanctions such as those once imposed on the apartheid regime in South Africa, there isn’t much that can stop this catastrophe.
The human rights violations in Xinjiang are unfolding on a truly shocking scale: it is, hands down, one of the largest and worst human rights tragedies of this century. It is appalling that any decent country could endorse it and enable these crimes.


The most damning feature of China’s actions is the plainly racist collective punishment of millions of innocent people. The Uyghur, Kazakh and other native peoples in Xinjiang region, numbering about 12 million, are targeted by a wide-ranging assault on their ordinary culture, language, and religion.

Houses of worship along with ancient cemeteries are bulldozed. Every day religion is criminalised. The bilingual signs once used in the region are painted over. Children are forbidden to speak their native languages at school. Ordinary people are forced to eat pork and told that if they refuse, they are “extremists”. If so categorised, they are sent to corrective camps where they are brutally brainwashed into denying their own ethnic and religious identity. More than a million have been sent to this new camp system.
All these things are not just allegations, but are confirmed by large numbers of witnesses. Most haunting is how detainees are humiliated until their very soul is broken: “… like robots. They seemed to have lost their soul… like people who lost their memory after a car crash.”
The massive collective trauma which is now being inflicted on people inside and outside these concentration camps will be felt for decades to come, further reinforced by the gigantic horror of family separations and how indigenous children sent to Chinese-only “orphanages” in which they are isolated from not only their families, but from their native language and culture. It is clear that it is the Chinese regime that is the true extremist here, and that this no longer has anything to do with terrorism, as the Chinese government tries to argue. (If anything, it is a policy to foment terrorism).
The Chinese government is out to destroy ethnic diversity by eliminating ethnicities they hate. At first, they tried to deny and hide what they were doing. But there was overwhelming evidence collected from satellite imagery, showing the unprecedented building of barbed wire prison camps in 2017-19.
So, they switched to acknowledging the campaign, but justifying the camps as “vocational training”. This, including how credulous foreign journalists are herded around fake camps built to mislead, is a lot like the Nazi propaganda effort, in its day. But such efforts have also been exposed as lies, even by means of the government’s own records. What is more, refugees from China recognise law-abiding, highly educated indigenous citizens in TV footage shown to foreigners of people being “trained” in these fake camps.
The entire campaign is outside the law: None of the hundreds of thousands indefinitely detained ever had the opportunity of challenging their punishment in court: this is why the term “concentration camps” is very much justified. And while we do not have proof of mass killings of inmates, the many reports of secret prison transfers are cause for alarm, since they may herald such killings carried out in secret to eliminate anyone whose dignity remains unbreakable.
Another highly revealing element of the campaign is the mass detention of the most admired indigenous singers, writers, academics, poets, clerics and so on. A recent count confirmed 435 indigenous cultural icons and intellectuals disappeared without a trace. They include the renowned star artist Sanubar Tursun, who had to miss her scheduled performance in France in February 2019. If she is still alive, this virtuoso singer is likely also suffering in the lawless camps now. It is clear that the Chinese regime is targeting all these admired figures, alongside hundreds of thousands of ordinary people, in order to destroy the dignity and identity of these indigenous peoples.
In my view, this means that the Chinese regime’s campaign against the Uyghur, Kazakh and others is already a genocide, as in “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such,” and already meets all five criteria of genocide as defined in article 2 of the 1948 international Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. It’s genocide in a new, most cruel form, which some call “cultural genocide.”
This is taking the world in the wrong direction, and that is why the world cannot accept it. There are even many brave Chinese people who have protested against their own government’s policies in Xinjiang, at great risk to themselves (and some are in prison for it). Xinjiang is a human rights catastrophe, that must be condemned by upright people everywhere, and by all the countries in the world.
Otherwise, we all may be next. *DM*
_Dr Magnus Fiskesjö, from Sweden, is an associate professor in anthropology at Cornell University, US. He began travelling to China in 1977 and was formerly cultural attaché at Sweden’s Embassy in Beijing and director of the Museum of Far Eastern Antiquities in Stockholm, Sweden. His long-term research focus is ethnic relations and minorities in China and Asia._
*Cape SAJBD welcomes decision declaring Uyghur persecution a genocide*
May 2, 2021
https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php...sion-declaring-uyghur-persecution-a-genocide/
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?te...ecution-a-genocide/&via=Cape+Jewish+Chronicle
https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=...sion-declaring-uyghur-persecution-a-genocide/
https://www.linkedin.com/shareArtic...ision+declaring+Uyghur+persecution+a+genocide



By Mathilde Myburgh
*The Cape South African Jewish Board of Deputies (Cape SAJBD) welcomes the passage of a motion in Canada’s House of Commons on Monday* *22 February, which declares the persecution of the Uyghur people by the People’s Republic of China an act of genocide under international law.*

In sitting number 63 on Monday 22 February, the House passed a motion of opposition regarding religious minorities in China, with 266 votes in favour and zero against.

The motion text details that, in the opinion of the House, the People’s Republic of China had engaged in actions that are consistent with the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 260, better known as the ‘Genocide Convention’ — which includes using detention camps and measures intended to prevent births of Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslims.

Given its policy had been to act in concert with its allies when it comes to recognising the genocide, and given bipartisan consensus in the United States in two consecutive administrations that Uyghur and other Turkic Muslims are being subjected to a genocide by the People’s Republic of China, the House overwhelmingly recognised this genocide, a welcome development.

It has called upon the International Olympic Committee to move the 2022 Winter Olympics out of Beijing should the Chinese government continue this genocide.

In line with the Cape SAJBD’s objectives and the experiences of the Jewish community with genocide and antisemitism, and with the annual Yom HaShoah recently observed in April, we unequivocally support this motion passed by Canada’s House of Commons.

It is our firmly held belief that the religious and civil rights, status and welfare of any citizen of a country be safeguarded by its government and defended by human rights organisations locally and globally. In South Africa, protecting the human rights of our Jewish constituency and the people of the Western Cape is at the very core of what the Cape SAJBD does. We work hard to promote harmonious relations between the Jewish community and other communities, and we empathise with the Uyghur and other Turkic Muslim communities facing this plight at the hands of their fellow citizens and their government.

We welcome global attention to the plight of Uyghur and Turkic Muslims in the People’s Republic of China and pray that the visibility of this and other decisions and utterances by institutions and communities alike afford these minority communities routes to representation and ultimately, liberation.

According to Wikipedia, the Uyghur community is recognised by the Chinese government as a regional minority community, native to the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of Northwest China. It is estimated that since 2015, over a million Uyghurs have been detained in internment camps over a governmental goal to ensure adherence to national ideology by “re-educating” Uyghurs and changing their political thinking, sense of identity and religious beliefs. In South Africa, with a 25-year-old Constitution praised the world over for its progressive and inclusive content, such acts against fellow countrymen are illegal. This forced “re-education” goes against the very grain of South Africa’s Bill of Rights, which places every citizen as equal before the law, with the right to equally be protected by and benefit from it. Discriminating against one another on the grounds of race, gender, sex, ethnic or social origin, sexual orientation, religion, conscience, belief, culture or language is prohibited, unconscionable and, frankly, un-South African.

Chinese authorities estimate there are 12 million Uyghur people in the country, which has been disputed by the community itself as early as 2003, arguing that their 20 million+ population is purposefully being undercounted.

As early as 2017, Human Rights Watch called for the People’s Government of China to immediately release Uyghur people held in unlawful political education centres in Xinjiang. We must never forget the lessons learned in the Shoah and its aftermath.

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## Feng Leng

Reashot Xigwin said:


> How do you feel that your money going into making us stronger so we can better go up against you. Kinda ironic isn't it?


How many megatons of JL-3 warheads do you think Indonesia can absorb?

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## Clutch

War Thunder said:


> There you have it. The question was asked and he had this once chance to answer it for his public and he spoke what he had to.
> 
> Did he say there is no problem? There is no genocide? No mistreatment? No harassment?
> 
> Or did he acknowledge the existence of a problem that he wanted to address internally "because of the benefits they get from being on good terms with China"?
> 
> 
> If most of you Pakistanis still want to live in denial or carry on with your "corrupt" or "ignorant" behavior (instead of relying on personal research). Then I hope you do understand the crime you are all taking part in. If you still have souls that remind you of being on the right side of things for at least the part of knowing it to be a wrong in your heart (the lowest state of imaan).



Interesting thing is why do Pakistani always get asked about Uyghurs .... Why don't they ask the UAE? Why don't they ask the Saudis? Why don't they ask the Omani? Why don't they ask the Bahraini???... Why always Pakistan?

Because it's all BS... They whole Uyghur Fake News is designed to break Pakistan-China alliance... Nothing more.

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## Hamartia Antidote

hualushui said:


> A woman who was tortured and raped was allowed to leave the country through an ordinary passport



True, if this was the case the Communists would have thrown her in a river to make their problem "disappear".


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## El Sidd

Clutch said:


> Interesting thing is why do Pakistani always get asked about Uyghurs .... Why don't they ask the UAE? Why don't they ask the Saudis? Why don't they ask the Omani? Why don't they ask the Bahraini???... Why always Pakistan?
> 
> Because it's all BS... They whole Uyghur Fake News is designed to break Pakistan-China alliance... Nothing more.



Geography.


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## Maira La

War Thunder said:


> Chinese Uyghurs are discussed more because I have my country men unable to open eyes and see what's actually going on in their own neighborhood and at the hands of their own ally.



Isn't the Uyghur issue similar to Balochistan issue? Concentration camps, missing people and what not.. If you buy into Western propaganda on Uyghurs, you should do the same on Baloch issue and address that first!


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## charene514

So can someone tell me if there was any riddle solving which actually happened ? 

Or you guys just doctored the title to announce self proclaimed victory ?


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## khansaheeb

War Thunder said:


> Yes, for a response to the international audience.
> But for a response that his own nation was watching and depending upon?
> 
> Why hasn't China been able to convince Imran Khan or FM or anyone else to defend it being "iron brothers whatever"?
> Why isn't Pakistan defending China and denying any allegations if there are no concerns at all?
> 
> 
> And above all. Why does our FM not know what happens inside China? The country he is supposed to have the closest working relationship with? Because its all about business and money?


Because other than HindJew propaganda we have no other evidence and are following the proper process to look into the allegations.


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## Char

Reashot Xigwin said:


> As always the chinese never learn how to critically read a news article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.aninews.in/news/world/asia/chinas-rising-assertiveness-made-it-impossible-for--duterte-to-advance-pro-beijing-foreign-policy-report20210525165714/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 747980
> 
> 
> You guys have no Idea how lucky china is with Duterte you guys basically have a once in the century pro china leader in the philippines now what you get next will be a pro-US one & they will likely bring back the US into the dispute.
> 
> https://www.rand.org/blog/2021/05/china-has-lost-the-philippines-despite-dutertes-best.html



China’s diplomacy has never relied on a foreign leader. The Philippines had leaders who were unfriendly to China before. It didn’t make sense

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## beijingwalker

Reashot Xigwin said:


> China gets weaker everyday


Lol, good, then tell US and the west not to get too nervous about China's "declining"

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## El Sidd

khansaheeb said:


> Because other than HindJew propaganda we have no other evidence and are following the proper process to look into the allegations.



What einsteins need to consider is that Pakistan shares a border with China's Muslim autonomous region and there's ample people to people contact to confirm or reject any such manifestation of total government control.

Successive governments have taken up on this. 

This government sent a delegation which reported no concerns.

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## Baghial

War Thunder said:


> There you have it. The question was asked and he had this once chance to answer it for his public and he spoke what he had to.
> 
> Did he say there is no problem? There is no genocide? No mistreatment? No harassment?
> 
> Or did he acknowledge the existence of a problem that he wanted to address internally "because of the benefits they get from being on good terms with China"?
> 
> 
> If most of you Pakistanis still want to live in denial or carry on with your "corrupt" or "ignorant" behavior (instead of relying on personal research). Then I hope you do understand the crime you are all taking part in. If you still have souls that remind you of being on the right side of things for at least the part of knowing it to be a wrong in your heart (the lowest state of imaan).




_he was on his daily pill of amenisia,,,
if he poked even a finger to d-z- ping
the virus would have already gotten him,_


Maira La said:


> Isn't the Uyghur issue similar to Balochistan issue? Concentration camps, missing people and what not.. If you buy into Western propaganda on Uyghurs, you should do the same on Baloch issue and address that first!


 , shah jee even spent o-kaaf money in his election campaign,..........
what a darweesh he is..........


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## khansaheeb

El Sidd said:


> What einsteins need to consider is that Pakistan shares a border with China's Muslim autonomous region and there's ample people to people contact to confirm or reject any such manifestation of total government control.
> 
> Successive governments have taken up on this.
> 
> This government sent a delegation which reported no concerns.


Why didn't our minister say what you are saying?


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## JackTheRipper

PakAlp said:


> If they real cared about them they should let them immigrate. Will the Chinese agree? Pakistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan and co should let them enter. If you are not powerful to help them then let them migrate. Muslim land if for the Muslims.



Why Pakistan accept uyghur muslims? Millions of Afghanis are living in Pakistan from 4 decades? More burden? Can Pakistan afford more?

You are King..


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## Baghial

khansaheeb said:


> Why didn't our minister say what you are saying?




because our ministers speak only arabic!


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## Clutch

El Sidd said:


> Geography.



Why not then Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan... Why aren't these countries asked about the Uyghurs at every forum... They have even closer geography and culture and ethnic ties ...

Why always Pakistan???

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## beijingwalker

PakAlp said:


> The Muslim Turk countries need to give asylum to all the Uighur population. Around 12 Million migrating to 6 odd countries shouldn't be a problem.


How many Uighurs do you think really like to move to much poorer countries where no free housing, no free education, no free medicare and all the modern public and health facilities and infrastructure, not many job opportunities for future growth and supporting their families?
We see tens of thousands Muslim students come to Xinjiang to study and work, not the otherway around.

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## El Sidd

khansaheeb said:


> Why didn't our minister say what you are saying?


 Because its boring and not charming.


Clutch said:


> Why not then Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan... Why aren't these countries asked about the Uyghurs at every forum... They have even closer geography and culture and ethnic ties ...
> 
> Why always Pakistan???



Hey man if you don't like the attention and prefer to be Switzerland of 220 million people. Go ahead but then honor it by not interfering in neighbouring countries and beyond.

Pick one road for your journey.

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## hualushui

Hamartia Antidote said:


> True, if this was the case the Communists would have thrown her in a river to make their problem "disappear".


This is why the Americans are quickly caught up by China, because your IQ are getting lower and lower

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## beijingwalker

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> *China operates an estimated 1,200 concentration camps in its Xinjiang province*
> *Three million members of the Kazakh and Uyghur ethnic minorities are interned*


So pathetic, whoever buys even a bit of this "report" may have no brain cells left in their heads. Uyghur and Kazakhs together have a population a little bit than 10 million, including new borns, children and very old, 3 million being locked up meaning all aduit Uyghur population, that means your chance to see any random Uyghurs on the street in Xinjiang is almost zero. 
They better do a better job making lies which at least have so logics next time.

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## beijingwalker

Some time they say 1 million being locked up, sometimes they say 2 million, and sometimes they say 3 million... they better make up their mind on it, even rumors need their basics to be at least a bit consistent.

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## Hamartia Antidote

hualushui said:


> This is why the Americans are quickly caught up by China, because your IQ are getting lower and lower



I keep forgetting about how children in schools around the world are taught about all the inventions those high IQ Chinese have brought to the world in the lat 200 years.

Cars, bicycles, steel and glass skyscrapers, trains, subways, elevators, escalators, planes overhead, light bulbs, electricity, hydroelectric power, nuclear power, solar cell power, cell phones, TVs, radio, computers, internet, air conditioners, microwave oven, refrigerators, washing machines, eyeglasses, plastic, blue jeans, sneakers, the zipper, Velcro, and snaps on your synthetic clothes, agricultural machines, and thousands of other things.

Oh wait wrong list...let me pull out China's list of things to advance humanity.
1) e-cigarette



Ah for the good old days of China where for thousands of years the average "high IQ" man happily trudged barefoot behind oxen in the paddy fields without care of the outside world and all its advances...which was like only 40 years ago. 

Ah you Chinese are too funny.

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## beijingwalker

Kazakh girl says she feels so lucky to be born in such a beautiful and prosperous country , but the western media slanders our country with lies of so called forced labor in Xinjiang, she never knows so called forced labor and she turns to her grandfather, who is 91 years old and asks about this so called forced larbor, her grandfather tells her it is utterly BS and he'd never lived such a good life like he is enjoying now.

Subscribe her channel to check out her other videos on ethnic Kazakhs daily life in Xinjiang


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## shanlung

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> *China operates an estimated 1,200 concentration camps in its Xinjiang province*
> *Three million members of the Kazakh and Uyghur ethnic minorities are interned*
> *Prisoners are raped, beaten and tortured and organs are likely harvested for sale*
> *Sayragul Sauytbay was incarcerated as a teacher at one of the camps for months*
> *After fleeing Xinjiang for Kazakhstan she has written a book about what she saw*





denel said:


> It is not fake like your fake id.
> 
> If you dont agree, go elsewhere.





Mad Scientist 2.0 said:


> The whataboutery is staggering just because others are doing it doesn't mean chinese are not doing it if anyone remain complicit they can be but that doesn't imply that narratives are fake.



I suggest you focus your time and remaining energy to beg borrow or steal oxygen cylinders
and get firewood ready in case stealing oxygen futile
Beware of fungus that coming in black white yellow and other colors


Do something more positive to yourself and your life and people you care for.
Instead of trying to throw shit about as that will stick on you where fungus will grow


*This is your reality
and the reality for your relatives and all in India

Live with it*

I practise kindness to you to encourage you to do more worth while pursuits.


That might end up saving your life or that of your love ones

Or give them dignity in death instead of being dug out of graves and eaten by dogs and wild pigs or catfishes in Ganges















































































*SCHADENFREUDE*

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## CAPRICORN-88

_Does real journalism still exists in the Western News Media today? _

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## Clutch

El Sidd said:


> Hey man if you don't like the attention and prefer to be Switzerland of 220 million people. Go ahead but then honor it by not interfering in neighbouring countries and beyond.



Every nation has a foreign office and international envoys. Nobody sits in a isolated cocoon.

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## El Sidd

Clutch said:


> Every nation has a foreign office and international envoys. Nobody sits in a isolated cocoon.



But you don't ask a Swiss opinion on vandalism in occupied or free Ireland? 

You envy such neutrality don't you


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## Clutch

El Sidd said:


> But you don't ask a Swiss opinion on vandalism in occupied or free Ireland?
> 
> You envy such neutrality don't you



Exactly. 

Then why ask Pakistan on the alleged vandalism in "occupied" Uighur land....?

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## El Sidd

Clutch said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Then why ask Pakistan on the alleged vandalism in "occupied" Uighur land....?



For the sake of not running about in circles,

Pakistan introduced China to the world. The narrative is Pakistan's responsibility. 

Just like Britain introduced Israel to the world and is responsible for narrative development by punishing school children protesting war crimes.


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## Clutch

El Sidd said:


> For the sake of not running about in circles,
> 
> Pakistan introduced China to the world. The narrative is Pakistan's responsibility.
> 
> Just like Britain introduced Israel to the world and is responsible for narrative development by punishing school children protesting war crimes.



"Pakistan introduced China to the World".... Lol that is presumptuous and hyperbolic to say the least. I'm pretty sure the World knew of China before Pakistan came along to shine the light.

Being a backdoor offsite location for US Kissinger to kiss up to Chinese diplomats doesn't count as being an instrumental catalyst for the foreplay the Chinese and Americans wanted to do back in early 1970s.

Inflated ego syndrome?

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## El Sidd

Clutch said:


> "Pakistan introduced China to the World".... Lol that is presumptuous and hyperbolic to say the least. I'm pretty sure the World knew of China before Pakistan came along to shine the light.
> 
> Being a backdoor offsite location for US Kissinger to kiss up to Chinese diplomats doesn't count as being an instrumental catalyst for the foreplay the Chinese and Americans wanted to do back in early 1970s.
> 
> Inflated ego syndrome?



China as a Nation state was practically introduced by Pakistan in 1960s and 70s.

I am sure Herr Kissinger would have seen enough moist and lubricated rectum to not fall for it. 

What don't you educate as to why Pakistanis get asked if it's not for geography?


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## hualushui

Hamartia Antidote said:


> I keep forgetting about how children in schools around the world are taught about all the inventions those high IQ Chinese have brought to the world in the lat 200 years.
> 
> Cars, bicycles, steel and glass skyscrapers, trains, subways, elevators, escalators, planes overhead, light bulbs, electricity, hydroelectric power, nuclear power, solar cell power, cell phones, TVs, radio, computers, internet, air conditioners, microwave oven, refrigerators, washing machines, eyeglasses, plastic, blue jeans, sneakers, the zipper, Velcro, and snaps on your synthetic clothes, agricultural machines, and thousands of other things.
> 
> Oh wait wrong list...let me pull out China's list of things to advance humanity.
> 1) e-cigarette
> 
> 
> 
> Ah for the good old days of China where for thousands of years the average "high IQ" man happily trudged barefoot behind oxen in the paddy fields without care of the outside world and all its advances...which was like only 40 years ago.
> 
> Ah you Chinese are too funny.


You should thank the Chinese, otherwise you can only wipe your *** hole with your hand like an Indian

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nang2

PakAlp said:


> If they real cared about them they should let them immigrate. Will the Chinese agree? Pakistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan and co should let them enter. If you are not powerful to help them then let them migrate. Muslim land if for the Muslims.


Actually, China did it once. I don't recall the exact year but it was certainly before 1980. There was a Uighur revolt allegedly encouraged by Soviets. During crackdown, China opened the border so many of them fled to Kazakhstan and other neighboring former Soviet republics. After crackdown, China promptly closed the border and not let them come back. It seems that if they are trouble for China, it is easier to deal with by getting rid of them.


El Sidd said:


> What einsteins need to consider is that Pakistan shares a border with China's Muslim autonomous region and there's ample people to people contact to confirm or reject any such manifestation of total government control.
> 
> Successive governments have taken up on this.
> 
> This government sent a delegation which reported no concerns.


Oh, China doesn't have Muslim autonomous regions. All her autonomous regions are created based on races/ethnics, not religions.


----------



## El Sidd

nang2 said:


> Oh, China doesn't have Muslim autonomous regions. All her autonomous regions are created based on races/ethnics, not religions.


How about Muslim majority autonomous region?


----------



## master_13

El Sidd said:


> How about Muslim majority autonomous region?



those are called Xinjiang autonomous region, based on the region.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## El Sidd

master_13 said:


> those are called Xinjiang autonomous region, based on the region.



Call it Xingjiang which hosts a comparative Muslim majority than other regions in One China?


----------



## applesauce

Obviously propaganda.

This was her in 2018 :









‘Everyone was silent, endlessly mute’: Former Chinese re-education instructor speaks out


Sayragul Sauytbay’s account adds to the growing body of evidence about an extensive network of internment facilities that activists and some scholars have likened to military prisons




www.theglobeandmail.com





"She *did not personally see violence*, although she did see hunger. Detainees had only three kinds of food: rice soup, vegetable soup and nan bread"


and suddenly, after leaving the country for 3 years , she's now saying

" revealed the beatings, rapes and 'disappearances' she *witnessed* behind the barbed wire. "
"medical experiments, rape and torture"


Clearly got directions from her CIA handlers to start making things up and make it sound as terrible as possible. just like how there were thousands in camps, then suddenly hundreds of thousands then million, now their saying 1/5 the population is in camps. just flat out lies.

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## nang2

El Sidd said:


> How about Muslim majority autonomous region?


As I said, it is not based on religions and Muslim is a religious concept, not a racial concept. XinJiang's full name is "XinJiang Uyghur Autonomous Region" and Uyghur doesn't imply Muslims.


----------



## beijingwalker

Taiwan TV host was amazed when visiting a village kingdergarten in rural Xinjiang, she learned from the teachers that Xinjiang kids enjoy 15 years free education from kingdergarten to high school, and kids also enjoy 3 square meals with balanced nutrition especially designed to help the growth of the children, everything is free and teaching quality and facilities are second to none.

She said it's just unbelievably mind blowing, and she almost didn't want to leave after spending such a wonderful time with the local teachers and lovely kids.


----------



## Clutch

El Sidd said:


> China as a Nation state was practically introduced by Pakistan in 1960s and 70s.



You need to put down the blunt and detox before posting BS online.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## lonelyman

hualushui said:


> You should thank the Chinese, otherwise you can only wipe your *** hole with your hand like an Indian



He is an Indian, do you think any successful white American in real life lurking in Pakistan forum bashing and tweeting lies and bullshit stories on China all day? He is an Indian loser


applesauce said:


> Obviously propaganda.
> 
> This was her in 2018 :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Everyone was silent, endlessly mute’: Former Chinese re-education instructor speaks out
> 
> 
> Sayragul Sauytbay’s account adds to the growing body of evidence about an extensive network of internment facilities that activists and some scholars have likened to military prisons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theglobeandmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "She *did not personally see violence*, although she did see hunger. Detainees had only three kinds of food: rice soup, vegetable soup and nan bread"
> 
> 
> and suddenly, after leaving the country for 3 years , she's now saying
> 
> " revealed the beatings, rapes and 'disappearances' she *witnessed* behind the barbed wire. "
> "medical experiments, rape and torture"
> 
> 
> Clearly got directions from her CIA handlers to start making things up and make it sound as terrible as possible. just like how there were thousands in camps, then suddenly hundreds of thousands then million, now their saying 1/5 the population is in camps. just flat out lies.



these liars keep changing stories, each year with a different version

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## El Sidd

nang2 said:


> As I said, it is not based on religions and Muslim is a religious concept, not a racial concept. XinJiang's full name is "XinJiang Uyghur Autonomous Region" and Uyghur doesn't imply Muslims.


Uighurs are majority Muslim in Xingjiang region. Right?


Clutch said:


> You need to put down the blunt and detox before posting BS online.


Make a law against it


----------



## beijingwalker

*XINJIANG 2021 | Uncovering The Truth *


----------



## thewayoftheworld

1200 concentration camps and all they could find is a few photos that has been passed around every article. Unbelievable in the age mobile phones.


----------



## beijingwalker

Xinjiang police now have nothing to do for their work...

In this video the police officer says that in the past they were so busy and constantly needed to respond to calls and emergencies and very often they could even sleep during the night.
But now the Xinjiang becomes so safe and is almost crime free, they rarely need to respond to anything, they just do their daily patrol routines and go back home to enjoy afer work life with the family.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thewayoftheworld

Why is it anti semetic to say that Jewish elite control US media. I mean most of the executive are Jewish, they donate to Jewish causes and support Israel.


----------



## nang2

El Sidd said:


> Uighurs are majority Muslim in Xingjiang region. Right?


So? Are you familiar with the concept of the separation of church and state?


----------



## zectech

thewayoftheworld said:


> Why is it anti semetic to say that Jewish elite control US media. I mean most of the executive are Jewish, they donate to Jewish causes and support Israel.





https://i.postimg.cc/F9pF9pfT/jews-6-media.jpg





get the far Reichers against the zionists.


----------



## El Sidd

nang2 said:


> So? Are you familiar with the concept of the separation of church and state?



The touted concept does not change the statement i made.


----------



## retaxis

West loves to use divide and conquer tactics to weaken their enemies. They hope that turning brown against yellow will allow west to further prosper and the weak minded low iq sheep believe every word genocidal west says. Pretty sad stuff.


----------



## VkdIndian

retaxis said:


> They hope that turning brown against yellow


Who is “Yellow” here?

Remember Marty Mcfly in “Back to the Future” movie Series used to fly off the hook when called yellow. 😀😀


----------



## rent4country

‘Uyghur Tribunal’ opens with testimony of alleged rape, torture


Dozens giving accounts to people’s tribunal in London, which China has dismissed as a ‘clumsy public opinion show’.




www.aljazeera.com










A London-based people’s tribunal is investigating whether China’s alleged persecution of its Uighur minority amounts to genocide, with witness testimony detailing mass torture, rape and a range of other abuses.

The “Uyghur Tribunal” has no state backing and any judgement would not be binding on any government, but it has drawn a furious response from Beijing, which dismissed the hearings as a “machine producing lies”.


The first hearings take place over four days, from Friday to Monday, and are expected to draw dozens of witnesses. A second session is expected in September.

The nine United Kingdom-based jurors of the tribunal, including lawyers and human rights experts, intend to publish a report in December on whether China is guilty of genocide.

The first witness to testify on Friday, Qelbinur Sidik – an ethnic Uzbek teacher from Xinjiang’s capital Urumqi, said she was ordered by the Chinese Communist Party bosses to take Mandarin-language classes in two fetid and crowded “re-education” camps, one male and one female, for Uighurs.

The so-called students were made to wear shackles during hours-long classes, she told the tribunal.

“Guards in the camp did not treat the prisoners as human beings. They were treated less than dogs,” Sidik said through an interpreter. “They enjoyed watching them being humiliated and their suffering was for them their joy.”

*Female prisoners were allegedly abused when they were taken for interrogation.

“They were not only tortured but also raped, sometimes gang-raped,” Sidik said. “The things that I have witnessed and experienced, I can’t forget.”

Sidik said she was also subjected to forced sterilisation.*

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## vi-va

Scotch need Democracy and Freedom. A new referendum is on the way.

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## vi-va




----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## KAL-EL

vi-va said:


> Scotch need Democracy and Freedom. A new referendum is on the way.
> 
> View attachment 750732



I’m half Scottish and I scream Freeeedoom !! 

I’m not a Scottish citizen tho, so I would of course have no say in what happens. Got caught up in the moment ha ha

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## CAPRICORN-88

*Terrorism in Xinjiang and as usual Youtube will restricts this type of non Western narrative version video.*

_Between 1990 and 2016, when there were thousands of terrorist attacks in Xinjiang Province in China and the West shown NO CONCERN at all. 

Now that Xinjiang is safe and peaceful, they suddenly show so much concern and spoke of human rights many of which they do not enjoyed in the West. 
All these shows staged by Western News Media is part of a new geopolitics by 5 eyes Alliance was first fabricated by Steve Bannon of the Trump Administration to destabilize China OBOR initiative, Xinjiang is the gateway as ret US Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson revealed. _

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## Goritoes

I lost all respect for Western Crocodile tears over the Prosecution of Muslims in China, when they were dead silent over the slaughter of Palestinian Children and blocking resolution after resolution.

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## CAPRICORN-88

_How many folks in here knew that a dalit, the lowest caste in India are not allowed to own a land inside India today? 

That is the type of democracy many Indians are boasting about and yet they themselves are unaware of. 

But some of them in here has the audacity to post and opine about other nation ignoring what is happening right under their nose within their own country. 

My advice to them: 
*Folks who stay in a glass house should not throw stones. *









India asserts Dalit converts have no right to contest polls - UCA News


Dalit Christian leaders claim 80 percent of 30 million Indian Christians are of Dalit origin



www.ucanews.com




_

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## thewayoftheworld

They said the same shit about viagra rape in Libya. After the country is destroy, no media follow up about the supposed victim of these mass rape incident. Anglo-american just in the last 20 years have already killed millions. funny how no one ever memorialize the victims of Anglo-American regimes every year.

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## vi-va

Goritoes said:


> I lost all respect for Western Crocodile tears over the Prosecution of Muslims in China, when they were dead silent over the slaughter of Palestinian Children and blocking resolution after resolution.


India lockdown Kashmir for 1 year, 9 months and 30 days, tens of millions of Muslim. You know what?

No finger pointing. Instead

The hypocritical US and Europeans are having love affairs with Hindutva.

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## Goritoes

vi-va said:


> India lockdown Kashmir for 1 year, 9 months and 30 days, tens of millions of Muslim. You know what?
> 
> No finger pointing. Instead
> 
> The hypocritical US and Europeans are having love affairs with Hindutva.



This Selective Support is nothing but BS, and once again Muslims who are doomed by Allah for being worse of the worse will once again believe it, the situation of a Muslim nation today is that they know that the West is beating the hell out of them, by invasions, bombings, torture, stealing their land/resources but yet they are made to look at those Western Powers as Divine source of Truth and false. What a shame  people who once create and manage an empire which the world drool over now becomes such easy targets for War and Propaganda.

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## Nasr

Truth about Uyghurs and the West:

The Uyghurs are a political and nationalistic movement, not an Islamic one. The ETIM or the East Turkestan Islamic Movement have been listed in the United Nations Security Council as a terrorist group. Until of course, their God-Father eternal, america, had the ETIM removed from the terrorist group listing, November 2020. The same america that told the world that Iraq had WMD.

People truly are gullible and hopelessly naive to believe every word that comes out Western MSM. The same way people believed Iraq had WMD, stood by and watched 500,000 Iraqi children die due to american sanctions. And then again, the same people who sat mindlessly numb as the world witnessed how britain and france bombed Libya, all because the West dictated that "Qaddafi must go."

It's convenient for the Western Mainstream Media to highlight and amplify their focus on Uyghurs, since america has a new enemy, China. It's the same Modus Operandi when america was demonizing Russia. No one ever bothers to study what the historical background is. The Zionist owned and controlled Western Empire has a historical record of arming, indoctrinating, training and supporting armed groups which periodically morph into terrorist outfits. Be it Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda terrorist group, where Osama was trained by the CIA and was it's point-man in the Soviet-Afghan War. Or be it Syria or Libya, where america/britain/france have used their henchmen (turkey, emirates, saudis) to arm, train and indoctrinate terrorist groups to bring war, bloodshed and chaos in those countries.

Uyghurs are no different, where they have been clandestinely used by turkey, in Syria.









Syria says up to 5,000 Chinese Uighurs fighting in militant groups


Up to 5,000 ethnic Uighurs from China's violence-prone far western region of Xinjiang are fighting in various militant groups in Syria, the Syrian ambassador to China said on Monday, adding that Beijing should be extremely concerned about it.




www.reuters.com





Here, the West has again shown how they use Islam as a pretext to further their cause. They (West) hide behind the curtains and pull the strings of their puppets (turkey, emirates, qatar, saudis and etc), and their puppets use these pawns (nusra, al-qaeda, hts, isis) to spread terror, bloodshed and chaos.









Erdogan’s mercenaries in Syria take aim at each other


Reports have surfaced that Turkey is sending 8,000 Syrians, along with hundreds of non-Syrians, to fight in Libya.




theduran.com













In 2018 the US Was at War With Uyghur Terrorists. Now It Claims They Don't Even Exist


With China now in the crosshairs, ETIM, a Uyghur terrorist group, has moved from being an adversary of the US to being a potential asset.




www.mintpressnews.com





European Research:









Ürümqi to Oslo: Uyghur Militancy and the War on Terror


Jack Broome, security analyst specializing in ethno-nationalist conflict and anti-state activity across East Asia and Southeast Asia. This is the




eeradicalization.com





One of the main actors, a puppet state of the Zionist-West, is Turkey. Where Turkey played a pivotal role when america/britain/france were aiming at Libya. It is Turkey who did the dirty work on the ground for it's Zionist-Western masters. Since america was already embroiled in wars, tangled up in Afghanistan (10 years at the time, 2011/2012) and Iraq (7 years at the time, 2011/2012). It was Turkey who provided the terrorist fighters to ignite civil war in Libya. Their (Turks) route into Libya was through massive construction contracts it obtained when Libyan Government awarded Turkish companies.









Erdogan’s Sinister Game in Libya: Construction Corruption


The ugliness of kleptocracy is often easy to see. Those who have visited Libya report that for an oil state it has very unimpressive infrastructure.




channel16.dryadglobal.com





I see many bright minds, young and ambitious, on this forum. Yet most are misguided, misinformed and some yet are utterly ignorant. No one bothers to investigate, to research or to study both sides of the story before weighing on the subject. And majority devoid of ever going to the Noble Qur'an for guidance.

I have warned my people (Pakistanis) a million times about watching out for deception and traps. They (kuffar) are after Pakistan, not because Pakistan has Oil, or Gold, or Minerals. No ... it's because Pakistan is the first and only Muslim State to have an active, deadly Arsenal of Nuclear Weapons capable of annihilating israel, if israel ever dared to demolish Masjid Al-Aqsa and Qubrat-ul-Sakhra. A few weeks ago, when israeli terrorist state sent in it's thugs to beat out the Muslims from performing Salah in Masjid Al-Aqsa and kicking out Palestinians from their homes to make way for israeli settlements in Sheikh Jarrah (East Jerusalem). The Palestinians launched protests. In one of those protests which was video recorded, they called out the Army of one Muslim nation to respond to israeli aggression. The Army was of Pakistan ... NOT turkey, NOT qatar, NOT egypt, NOT jordan, NOT sauds and most certainly NOT emirates.

China is Pakistan's primary and most important ally, partner and brother nation and neighbor. China has been there for Pakistan, in moral, political and tangible support for Pakistan in our most testing of times (Alhumdulillah ala Shukrillah). China has not declared War on Islam, it has been america, britain, france and the rest of the zionist-West over several centuries. China didn't send out Crusades, the zionist-West did. China didn't colonize two thirds of the planet and imposed it's hegemony on the world, the zionist-West did. The millions of Bengal indians who died of starvation, wasn't because of China, it was britain the colonial/imperial master that ordered the entire grain stock to be shipped back to britain for their war. China doesn't have upto 1000 military bases around the world, the zionist-Western states of america does.

The Uyghur issue is being sensationalized because the West now wants China as an enemy. The Uyghurs are being used to corner Pakistanis, because China is it's most important ally. The Uyghur problem is being amplified by the zionist-Western MSM to try and proliferate their narrative of a China vs Islam scenario. They (zionist-West) want Muslims (2 billion on the planet) and China (1.4 billion on the planet) to fight each other, so they can keep ruling the world for another 100 years.

You guys seriously need to get your head screwed on right. They are making fools out of you and you are falling for it every step of the way like a bunch of mindless buffoons. From Syria War, to Iraq War, to Libya War, to Turkey, to Saudis, to Emiratis .... you are being taken for a ride and you are willing participants without any serious investigation, or research or going to the Noble Qur'an for guidance. Instead you believe everything they (zionist-Western MSM) is feeding you through misinformation news outlets.

Remember Dajjal is the master of deception.

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## vi-va

Nasr said:


> Truth about Uyghurs and the West:
> 
> The Uyghurs are a political and nationalistic movement, not an Islamic one. The ETIM or the East Turkestan Islamic Movement have been listed in the United Nations Security Council as a terrorist group. Until of course, their God-Father eternal, america, had the ETIM removed from the terrorist group listing, November 2020. The same america that told the world that Iraq had WMD.
> 
> People truly are gullible and hopelessly naive to believe every word that comes out Western MSM. The same way people believed Iraq had WMD, stood by and watched 500,000 Iraqi children die due to american sanctions. And then again, the same people who sat mindlessly numb as the world witnessed how britain and france bombed Libya, all because the West dictated that "Qaddafi must go."
> 
> It's convenient for the Western Mainstream Media to highlight and amplify their focus on Uyghurs, since america has a new enemy, China. It's the same Modus Operandi when america was demonizing Russia. No one ever bothers to study what the historical background is. The Zionist owned and controlled Western Empire has a historical record of arming, indoctrinating, training and supporting armed groups which periodically morph into terrorist outfits. Be it Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda terrorist group, where Osama was trained by the CIA and was it's point-man in the Soviet-Afghan War. Or be it Syria or Libya, where america/britain/france have used their henchmen (turkey, emirates, saudis) to arm, train and indoctrinate terrorist groups to bring war, bloodshed and chaos in those countries.
> 
> Uyghurs are no different, where they have been clandestinely used by turkey, in Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syria says up to 5,000 Chinese Uighurs fighting in militant groups
> 
> 
> Up to 5,000 ethnic Uighurs from China's violence-prone far western region of Xinjiang are fighting in various militant groups in Syria, the Syrian ambassador to China said on Monday, adding that Beijing should be extremely concerned about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here, the West has again shown how they use Islam as a pretext to further their cause. They (West) hide behind the curtains and pull the strings of their puppets (turkey, emirates, qatar, saudis and etc), and their puppets use these pawns (nusra, al-qaeda, hts, isis) to spread terror, bloodshed and chaos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erdogan’s mercenaries in Syria take aim at each other
> 
> 
> Reports have surfaced that Turkey is sending 8,000 Syrians, along with hundreds of non-Syrians, to fight in Libya.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theduran.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 2018 the US Was at War With Uyghur Terrorists. Now It Claims They Don't Even Exist
> 
> 
> With China now in the crosshairs, ETIM, a Uyghur terrorist group, has moved from being an adversary of the US to being a potential asset.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mintpressnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European Research:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ürümqi to Oslo: Uyghur Militancy and the War on Terror
> 
> 
> Jack Broome, security analyst specializing in ethno-nationalist conflict and anti-state activity across East Asia and Southeast Asia. This is the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eeradicalization.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main actors, a puppet state of the Zionist-West, is Turkey. Where Turkey played a pivotal role when america/britain/france were aiming at Libya. It is Turkey who did the dirty work on the ground for it's Zionist-Western masters. Since america was already embroiled in wars, tangled up in Afghanistan (10 years at the time, 2011/2012) and Iraq (7 years at the time, 2011/2012). It was Turkey who provided the terrorist fighters to ignite civil war in Libya. Their (Turks) route into Libya was through massive construction contracts it obtained when Libyan Government awarded Turkish companies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erdogan’s Sinister Game in Libya: Construction Corruption
> 
> 
> The ugliness of kleptocracy is often easy to see. Those who have visited Libya report that for an oil state it has very unimpressive infrastructure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> channel16.dryadglobal.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see many bright minds, young and ambitious, on this forum. Yet most are misguided, misinformed and some yet are utterly ignorant. No one bothers to investigate, to research or to study both sides of the story before weighing on the subject. And majority devoid of ever going to the Noble Qur'an for guidance.
> 
> I have warned my people (Pakistanis) a million times about watching out for deception and traps. They (kuffar) are after Pakistan, not because Pakistan has Oil, or Gold, or Minerals. No ... it's because Pakistan is the first and only Muslim State to have an active, deadly Arsenal of Nuclear Weapons capable of annihilating israel, if israel ever dared to demolish Masjid Al-Aqsa and Qubrat-ul-Sakhra. A few weeks ago, when israeli terrorist state sent in it's thugs to beat out the Muslims from performing Salah in Masjid Al-Aqsa and kicking out Palestinians from their homes to make way for israeli settlements in Sheikh Jarrah (East Jerusalem). The Palestinians launched protests. In one of those protests which was video recorded, they called out the Army of one Muslim nation to respond to israeli aggression. The Army was of Pakistan ... NOT turkey, NOT qatar, NOT egypt, NOT jordan, NOT sauds and most certainly NOT emirates.
> 
> China is Pakistan's primary and most important ally, partner and brother nation and neighbor. China has been there for Pakistan, in moral, political and tangible support for Pakistan in our most testing of times (Alhumdulillah ala Shukrillah). China has not declared War on Islam, it has been america, britain, france and the rest of the zionist-West over several centuries. China didn't send out Crusades, the zionist-West did. China didn't colonize two thirds of the planet and imposed it's hegemony on the world, the zionist-West did. The millions of Bengal indians who died of starvation, wasn't because of China, it was britain the colonial/imperial master that ordered the entire grain stock to be shipped back to britain for their war. China doesn't have upto 1000 military bases around the world, the zionist-Western states of america does.
> 
> The Uyghur issue is being sensationalized because the West now wants China as an enemy. The Uyghurs are being used to corner Pakistanis, because China is it's most important ally. The Uyghur problem is being amplified by the zionist-Western MSM to try and proliferate their narrative of a China vs Islam scenario. They (zionist-West) want Muslims (2 billion on the planet) and China (1.4 billion on the planet) to fight each other, so they can keep ruling the world for another 100 years.
> 
> You guys seriously need to get your head screwed on right. They are making fools out of you and you are falling for it every step of the way like a bunch of mindless buffoons. From Syria War, to Iraq War, to Libya War, to Turkey, to Saudis, to Emiratis .... you are being taken for a ride and you are willing participants without any serious investigation, or research or going to the Noble Qur'an for guidance. Instead you believe everything they (zionist-Western MSM) is feeding you through misinformation news outlets.
> 
> Remember Dajjal is the master of deception.


Bro, can you post your thread as a new post? It's enlightening. Worth reading for everyone.


Goritoes said:


> This Selective Support is nothing but BS, and once again Muslims who are doomed by Allah for being worse of the worse will once again believe it, the situation of a Muslim nation today is that they know that the West is beating the hell out of them, by invasions, bombings, torture, stealing their land/resources but yet they are made to look at those Western Powers as Divine source of Truth and false. What a shame  people who once create and manage an empire which the world drool over now becomes such easy targets for War and Propaganda.


Sad but can't be more true.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Nasr

vi-va said:


> Bro, can you post your thread as a new post? It's enlightening. Worth reading for everyone.



Will do

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Nasr

Truth about Uyghurs and the West:

The Uyghurs are a political and nationalistic movement, not an Islamic one. The ETIM or the East Turkestan Islamic Movement have been listed in the United Nations Security Council as a terrorist group. Until of course, their God-Father eternal, america, had the ETIM removed from the terrorist group listing, November 2020. The same america that told the world that Iraq had WMD.

People truly are gullible and hopelessly naive to believe every word that comes out Western MSM. The same way people believed Iraq had WMD, stood by and watched 500,000 Iraqi children die due to american sanctions. And then again, the same people who sat mindlessly numb as the world witnessed how britain and france bombed Libya, all because the West dictated that "Qaddafi must go."

It's convenient for the Western Mainstream Media to highlight and amplify their focus on Uyghurs, since america has a new enemy, China. It's the same Modus Operandi when america was demonizing Russia. No one ever bothers to study what the historical background is. The Zionist owned and controlled Western Empire has a historical record of arming, indoctrinating, training and supporting armed groups which periodically morph into terrorist outfits. Be it Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda terrorist group, where Osama was trained by the CIA and was it's point-man in the Soviet-Afghan War. Or be it Syria or Libya, where america/britain/france have used their henchmen (turkey, emirates, saudis) to arm, train and indoctrinate terrorist groups to bring war, bloodshed and chaos in those countries.

Uyghurs are no different, where they have been clandestinely used by turkey, in Syria.









Syria says up to 5,000 Chinese Uighurs fighting in militant groups


Up to 5,000 ethnic Uighurs from China's violence-prone far western region of Xinjiang are fighting in various militant groups in Syria, the Syrian ambassador to China said on Monday, adding that Beijing should be extremely concerned about it.




www.reuters.com





Here, the West has again shown how they use Islam as a pretext to further their cause. They (West) hide behind the curtains and pull the strings of their puppets (turkey, emirates, qatar, saudis and etc), and their puppets use these pawns (nusra, al-qaeda, hts, isis) to spread terror, bloodshed and chaos.









Erdogan’s mercenaries in Syria take aim at each other


Reports have surfaced that Turkey is sending 8,000 Syrians, along with hundreds of non-Syrians, to fight in Libya.




theduran.com













In 2018 the US Was at War With Uyghur Terrorists. Now It Claims They Don't Even Exist


With China now in the crosshairs, ETIM, a Uyghur terrorist group, has moved from being an adversary of the US to being a potential asset.




www.mintpressnews.com





European Research:









Ürümqi to Oslo: Uyghur Militancy and the War on Terror


Jack Broome, security analyst specializing in ethno-nationalist conflict and anti-state activity across East Asia and Southeast Asia. This is the




eeradicalization.com





One of the main actors, a puppet state of the Zionist-West, is Turkey. Where Turkey played a pivotal role when america/britain/france were aiming at Libya. It is Turkey who did the dirty work on the ground for it's Zionist-Western masters. Since america was already embroiled in wars, tangled up in Afghanistan (10 years at the time, 2011/2012) and Iraq (7 years at the time, 2011/2012). It was Turkey who provided the terrorist fighters to ignite civil war in Libya. Their (Turks) route into Libya was through massive construction contracts it obtained when Libyan Government awarded Turkish companies.









Erdogan’s Sinister Game in Libya: Construction Corruption


The ugliness of kleptocracy is often easy to see. Those who have visited Libya report that for an oil state it has very unimpressive infrastructure.




channel16.dryadglobal.com





I see many bright minds, young and ambitious, on this forum. Yet most are misguided, misinformed and some yet are utterly ignorant. No one bothers to investigate, to research or to study both sides of the story before weighing on the subject. And majority devoid of ever going to the Noble Qur'an for guidance.

I have warned my people (Pakistanis) a million times about watching out for deception and traps. They (kuffar) are after Pakistan, not because Pakistan has Oil, or Gold, or Minerals. No ... it's because Pakistan is the first and only Muslim State to have an active, deadly Arsenal of Nuclear Weapons capable of annihilating israel, if israel ever dared to demolish Masjid Al-Aqsa and Qubrat-ul-Sakhra. A few weeks ago, when israeli terrorist state sent in it's thugs to beat out the Muslims from performing Salah in Masjid Al-Aqsa and kicking out Palestinians from their homes to make way for israeli settlements in Sheikh Jarrah (East Jerusalem). The Palestinians launched protests. In one of those protests which was video recorded, they called out the Army of one Muslim nation to respond to israeli aggression. The Army was of Pakistan ... NOT turkey, NOT qatar, NOT egypt, NOT jordan, NOT sauds and most certainly NOT emirates.

China is Pakistan's primary and most important ally, partner and brother nation and neighbor. China has been there for Pakistan, in moral, political and tangible support for Pakistan in our most testing of times (Alhumdulillah ala Shukrillah). China has not declared War on Islam, it has been america, britain, france and the rest of the zionist-West over several centuries. China didn't send out Crusades, the zionist-West did. China didn't colonize two thirds of the planet and imposed it's hegemony on the world, the zionist-West did. The millions of Bengal indians who died of starvation, wasn't because of China, it was britain the colonial/imperial master that ordered the entire grain stock to be shipped back to britain for their war. China doesn't have upto 1000 military bases around the world, the zionist-Western states of america does.

The Uyghur issue is being sensationalized because the West now wants China as an enemy. The Uyghurs are being used to corner Pakistanis, because China is it's most important ally. The Uyghur problem is being amplified by the zionist-Western MSM to try and proliferate their narrative of a China vs Islam scenario. They (zionist-West) want Muslims (2 billion on the planet) and China (1.4 billion on the planet) to fight each other, so they can keep ruling the world for another 100 years.

You guys seriously need to get your head screwed on right. They are making fools out of you and you are falling for it every step of the way like a bunch of mindless buffoons. From Syria War, to Iraq War, to Libya War, to Turkey, to Saudis, to Emiratis .... you are being taken for a ride and you are willing participants without any serious investigation, or research or going to the Noble Qur'an for guidance. Instead you believe everything they (zionist-Western MSM) is feeding you through misinformation news outlets.

Remember Dajjal is the master of deception.

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## redtom

I suspect that no one really believes these propaganda.

Except for the typical paid promoters, I haven't found anyone who really believes. Many people are just skeptics. They think that something has happened, something bad has happened. But they can clearly feel that someone is promoting political propaganda.

People will rationalize these stories based on their own perceptions. Americans will believe that China is doing the same thing as Guantanamo. Conspiracy theorists believe that China has become the deep evil of the US government.But the problem is that China and the United States have completely different political systems and cultural habits. So the Chinese will only treat these stories as jokes, because they are not Chinese style.It's like a Muslim eating bacon, or a Chinese chef holding cheese. There is nothing wrong with cheese and bacon, but they appear in inappropriate places, and westerners don't understand.

So the genocide is a Western story, even a Jewish story. I am not saying that there have been no mass killings in China's history, but that China has no genocide-style mass killings. That is the patent of the Germans and Catholics. The Chinese do not lock up people and kill them, but kill them directly. Our habit is to let them dig a 3-meter deep pit in the ground, and then directly drive them in and bury them.

Westerners obviously lack understanding of China. I don’t think they really work hard.The superiority of the past 30 years has caused holistic corruption in Western society. So they pulled out the script of Iraq 30 years ago and replaced Iraq with China. After the genocide, it should be WMD, destroying Europe in one hour. There is a small problem here. China really has WMD, and China can destroy Europe and the United States in one hour.

So it's like the video is stuck, the old horn of the West keeps repeating, genocide, genocide, genocide...

No one knows what to do next.

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## redtom

There are many similar things. Just like last year, in order to persuade Europe to fight against China, the US government claimed that CCP was a communist party. Most people don't quite understand what happened. But if you put the time back after the end of World War II. Churchill delivered a speech calling on Europe to fight the communist Soviet Union. Pompeo even imitated Churchill and made a similar speech.

But the problem was that Soviet troops could reach the Atlantic in a week. China and Europe are separated by the entire Asian continent. Europeans feel very unclear about threats.At the same time, the economic ties between China and Europe are closer than those between the United States and Europe, while the Soviet Union and Europe are completely economically divided.

This shows that the political power of the United States is 50 years behind the world, so they called out a new cold war. The world still doesn't understand what happened.

Recently, something more ridiculous happened. The United States began to copy the Marshall Plan and called on the G7 countries to launch their own Belt and Road Initiative.In 1945, the United States was the world's number one industrial country. Today, the United States is a non-industrial country that relies on financial fraud and arms. Can the United States build power plants, railways, and dams for other countries? The only thing the United States can provide is weapons and medical insurance.

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## TNT

And we know the west never lies right? Its not like they invade countries on fake claims of WMDs right?


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## vi-va

One of the best post in depth. Bookmarked!

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## Titanium100

Get the F' outta here with this garbage.. We all know it is a propaganda to isolate and put blockade on China but dragging in Turkey and other sovereign states and other entities who have zero fuks to do with this matter doesn't sit well with me...

This piece is intellectually bankrupt and makes no sense whatsoever...... Mixing milk and water and sky and heaven..... Inserting things and places that don't even exist in the narrative....

All of these countries you mentioned have good relations with China.. Such as the Gulf, Turkey, Egypt and all the others. The propaganda is not sophisticated and very primitive everyone can see why it is being done and what is the purpose behind it which is simple ISOLATE CHINA.. Nobody has fallen for it.... The whole purpose of this thread smells suspicious..

I have reported this garbage vomitting piece


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## vi-va

Titanium100 said:


> Get the F' outta here with this garbage.. We all know it is a propaganda to isolate and put blockade on China but dragging in Turkey and other sovereign states and other entities who have zero fuks to do with this matter doesn't sit well with me...
> 
> This piece is intellectually bankrupt and makes no sense whatsoever...... Mixing milk and water and sky and heaven..... Inserting things and places that don't even exist in the narrative....
> 
> All of these countries you mentioned have good relations with China.. Such as the Gulf, Turkey, Egypt and all the others. The propaganda is not sophisticated and very primitive everyone can see why it is being done and what is the purpose behind it which is simple ISOLATE CHINA.. Nobody has fallen for it.... The whole purpose of this thread smells suspicious..
> 
> I have reported this garbage vomitting piece


Totally disagree.

*It has less to do with nation, but the manipulation of mindset of their people. Mass mindset manipulation, and deception.*

The strategic thinker of other nations are much harder to be fooled by US-Zionist propaganda. But ordinary people are easily fooled.

*As long as the majority of Pakistanis believe China is evil, no Pakistan politicians and parties dare to join hand with China. So the US-Zionist win.*

Talking about China has good relationship with Turkey is far from reality. At best normal relationship. The ordinary Turks had been fed with US-Zionist propaganda for decades, most Turks dislike China, while vice versa.

*Denmark is US puppet, everyone knew it. Denmark even help US spy on Germany and other European countries. Why is that? Because US has Denmark's ball which is Greenland.
*

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## Titanium100

vi-va said:


> Totally disagree.
> 
> *It has less to do with nation, but the manipulation of mindset of their people. Mass mindset manipulation, and deception.*
> 
> The strategic thinker of other nations are much harder to be fooled by US-Zionist propaganda. But ordinary people are easily fooled.
> 
> *As long as the majority of Pakistanis believe China is evil, no Pakistan politicians and parties dare to join hand with China. So the US-Zionist win.*
> 
> Talking about China has good relationship with Turkey is far from reality. At best normal relationship. The ordinary Turks had been fed with US-Zionist propaganda for decades, most Turks dislike China, while vice versa.



I know it has something to do with turning the masses against china and eventually they wanna use them against China... That is how I see which is predictable.. sowing the seed to isolate China further and further but it is not working on state level or majority of the population because it is a primitive form of propaganda.

You are wrong on the Turkey one tho. Beijing-Istanbul have good relations and working on building railways linking the countries. I can assure you if the turkish state didn't want any relations with China they would have let you know long time ago they don't beat around the bushes. They also understand what is going on there since the Kazakh president has been there...

Chinese foreign minister was in Turkey less then a month ago.. There is no bad relations with Turkey and if the turks want to dislike someone they would do so by their own accord not via some enforced propaganda. Assuming most turks dislike china is also to far fatched China is not on Turkey's agenda so there is really not much of an opinion in Turkey because they focus on nearby countries such as Syria, Iraq, Greece and Armenia they are not looking beyond that as of now and anything beyond that doens't hold much of interest to the general public there or local media consumption


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## vi-va

Titanium100 said:


> I know it has something to do with turning the masses against china and eventually they wanna use them against China... That is how I see which is predictable.. sowing the seed to isolate China further and further but it is not working on state level or majority of the population because it is a primitive form of propaganda.
> 
> You are wrong on the Turkey one tho. Beijing-Istanbul have good relations and working on building railways linking the countries. I can assure you if the turkish state didn't want any relations with China they would have let you know long time ago they don't beat around the bushes. They also understand what is going on there since the Kazakh president has been there...
> 
> Chinese foreign minister was in Turkey less then a month ago.. There is no bad relations with Turkey and if the turks want to dislike someone they would do so by their own accord not via some enforced propaganda. Assuming most turks dislike china is also to far fatched China is not on Turkey's agenda so there is really not much of an opinion in Turkey because they focus on nearby countries such as Syria, Iraq, Greece and Armenia they are not looking beyond that as of now and anything beyond that doens't hold much of interest to the general public there or local media consumption


As long as Turkey still hold general election, there is no chance Beijing-Istanbul can have close relationship. Because most Turks believe Uighur is genocide by China.

*That's the power of deception and Mass manipulation.

Take US puppet state Denmark as an example. Denmark is far from China, has no strategic conflict with China at all, but Denmark politicians dare not to be pro China. 
*
*US-Zionist propaganda has fed Europeans for decades, Europeans are mentally controlled by US-Zionist.*

Turkey has done a lot of things against China in past decades. China knew it, Turkey knew it. It's just US/West is beating Turkey badly, so Turkey has to fix relationship with China, and play the China card.

That's about it.

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## Titanium100

vi-va said:


> As long as Turkey still hold general election, there is no chance Beijing-Istanbul can have close relationship. Because most Turks believe Uighur is genocide by China.
> 
> *That's the power of deception and Mass manipulation.
> 
> Take US puppet state Denmark as an example. Denmark is far from China, has no strategic conflict with China at all, but Denmark politicians dare not to be pro China. *
> 
> *US-Zionist propaganda has fed Europeans for decades, Europeans are mentally controlled by US-Zionist.*
> 
> Turkey has done a lot of things against China in past decades. China knew it, Turkey knew it. It's just US/West is beating Turkey badly, so Turkey has to fix relationship with China, and play the China card.
> 
> That's about it.



You don't have to make the texts bold I am not blind..

General election? So you think after Erdogan leaves office an anti-Beijing government comes to town? Is that not assumption?

Where did the West/US beat Turkey badly? They are all NATO allies and haven't been in war with UK since 100 years ago in ww1? There is no card playing here it is just economic interests but you have paranoia reading to much fake news online like the one up thinking this is real life...You live in a world Where everyone is plotting against China? but that is not real world..

I lost interest in this convo


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## vi-va

Titanium100 said:


> I know it has something to do with turning the masses against china and eventually they wanna use them against China... That is how I see which is predictable.. sowing the seed to isolate China further and further but it is not working on state level or majority of the population because it is a primitive form of propaganda.
> 
> You are wrong on the Turkey one tho. Beijing-Istanbul have good relations and working on building railways linking the countries. I can assure you if the turkish state didn't want any relations with China they would have let you know long time ago they don't beat around the bushes. They also understand what is going on there since the Kazakh president has been there...
> 
> Chinese foreign minister was in Turkey less then a month ago.. There is no bad relations with Turkey and if the turks want to dislike someone they would do so by their own accord not via some enforced propaganda. Assuming most turks dislike china is also to far fatched China is not on Turkey's agenda so there is really not much of an opinion in Turkey because they focus on nearby countries such as Syria, Iraq, Greece and Armenia they are not looking beyond that as of now and anything beyond that doens't hold much of interest to the general public there or local media consumption


As long as Turkey still hold general election, there is no chance Beijing-Istanbul can have close relationship. Because most Turks believe Uighur is genocide by China.

*That's the power of deception and Mass manipulation.

Take US puppet state Denmark as an example. Denmark is far from China, has no strategic conflict with China at all, but Denmark politicians dare not to be pro China. *

US-Zionist propaganda has fed Europeans for decades, Europeans are mentally controlled by US-Zionist.

Turkey has done a lot of things against China in past decades. China knew it, Turkey knew it. It's just US/West is beating Turkey badly, so Turkey has to fix relationship with China, and play the China card.

That's about it.


Titanium100 said:


> You don't have to make the texts bold I am not blind..
> 
> General election? So you think after Erdogan leaves office an anti-Beijing government comes to town? Is that not assumption?
> 
> Where did the West/US beat Turkey badly? They are all NATO allies and haven't been in war with UK since 100 years ago in ww1? There is no card playing here it is just economic interests but you have paranoia reading to much fake news online like the one up thinking this is real life...You live in a world Where everyone is plotting against China? but that is not real world


You must be less informed for 10 years or so. I don't blame you, though.

Turkey has Kurds separation issues, while US and NATO is sponsoring Kurds in Syria and Iraq. US and NATO want to use Kurds card to destroy and control Syria, Iraq, Iran, as well as Turkey.

This is Turkey core interest. So Turkey beat $hit out of Kurds. While US and EU sanctioned Turkey, now Turkey economy landslide. 

Turkey has to fix relationship with China, play the China card to threaten US, otherwise Erdogan won't survive next general election.

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## kankan326

Agree. Uyghur independent movement is pure nationalistic movement. Uyghur separatists dragged Islam into this to gain more support from other muslims.

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## Titanium100

vi-va said:


> As long as Turkey still hold general election, there is no chance Beijing-Istanbul can have close relationship. Because most Turks believe Uighur is genocide by China.
> 
> *That's the power of deception and Mass manipulation.
> 
> Take US puppet state Denmark as an example. Denmark is far from China, has no strategic conflict with China at all, but Denmark politicians dare not to be pro China. *
> 
> US-Zionist propaganda has fed Europeans for decades, Europeans are mentally controlled by US-Zionist.
> 
> Turkey has done a lot of things against China in past decades. China knew it, Turkey knew it. It's just US/West is beating Turkey badly, so Turkey has to fix relationship with China, and play the China card.
> 
> That's about it.
> 
> You must be less informed for 10 years or so. I don't blame you, though.
> 
> Turkey has Kurds separation issues, while US and NATO is sponsoring Kurds in Syria and Iraq. US and NATO want to use Kurds card to destroy and control Syria, Iraq, Iran, as well as Turkey.
> 
> This is Turkey core interest. So Turkey beat $hit out of Kurds. While US and EU sanctioned Turkey, now Turkey economy landslide.
> 
> Turkey has to fix relationship with China, play the China card to threaten US, otherwise Erdogan won't survive next general election.



This is some horseshit assumption... You remind me of that austinpowers this is ridiculously bad. Lets just end it here no need to quote me on this


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## vi-va

Titanium100 said:


> This is some horseshit assumption... You remind me of that austinpowers this is ridiculously bad. Lets just end it here no need to quote me on this


As I said, you are less informed for at least 10 years. Denmark is a puppet of US, I don't think you have any independent thinking at all. Period.

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## Nasr

Appearance and Reality in this day 'n' age, sit opposite poles. One must seek the truth by historical analysis, using Hikmah from the Noble Qur'an and using human intuitive, intellectual, critical thinking. 

Those who sell their lies to humanity, have motive of dominion, lust for power and are vain. They seek to subjugate humanity through laced lies, aggressive propaganda, through divide of race, nationality and ethnic lines.

The West wants another Cold War era, it's "_Terrorist Scaremongering_" has run out of steam and they are financially reeling. They create enemies where there are none to have. When they fail to subjugate other nations like Russia and China as they resist, they then use their media to malign other nation's image. This is the same West which lied about WMD in Iraq, lied about Gulf of Tonkin, lied about Chemical Weapons use in Syria by its government, lied about Libya and continues to lie, cheat and deceive it's way through the changing geo-political landscape, in a desperate attempt retain it's hegemony over the world.

Those who fall for their deception, are hopelessly stupid, if not, they are willing participants to propagate the Western narrative.


Titanium100 said:


> Get the F' outta here with this garbage.. We all know it is a propaganda to isolate and put blockade on China but dragging in Turkey and other sovereign states and other entities who have zero fuks to do with this matter doesn't sit well with me...
> 
> This piece is intellectually bankrupt and makes no sense whatsoever...... Mixing milk and water and sky and heaven..... Inserting things and places that don't even exist in the narrative....
> 
> All of these countries you mentioned have good relations with China.. Such as the Gulf, Turkey, Egypt and all the others. The propaganda is not sophisticated and very primitive everyone can see why it is being done and what is the purpose behind it which is simple ISOLATE CHINA.. Nobody has fallen for it.... The whole purpose of this thread smells suspicious..
> 
> I have reported this garbage vomitting piece



I wrote it, if you have any disagreement, state it with valid argument and links to support it. Refrain from abusive language, it's the sort of nonsense that one spews, when they are losing an argument or lost for words. Be civil, otherwise buzz off.

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## rent4country

Goritoes said:


> I lost all respect for Western Crocodile tears over the Prosecution of Muslims in China, when they were dead silent over the slaughter of Palestinian Children and blocking resolution after resolution.



Noteworthy, that will the topic is about Muslim genocide in China, your first thought was not about them, but about what you feel about the west. The West theoretically could say the same statement in reverse about you.

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## rent4country

Nasar's point- Ignore the rape, genocide, removal of practices of Islam, limiting Ramadan practices, the forced conversions, kidnapping, banning Muslim names, etc. because to keep the ally happy, I now proclaim Uyghurs Muslims are all terrorists because a few of them are fighting in Syria.

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## Nasr

rent4country said:


> Nasar's point- Ignore the rape, genocide, removal of practices of Islam, limiting Ramadan practices, the forced conversions, kidnapping, banning Muslim names, etc. because to keep the ally happy, I now proclaim Uyghurs Muslims are all terrorists because a few of them are fighting in Syria.



So when america lies about WMD and over a million Iraqis die as a consequence of american military invasion and occupation, you sit on your behind and look pretty all day long. Or when britain, turkey and france enforce a regime change with air strikes and terrorist proliferation, you believe them that Libyan Government is criminal. 

But if Crimea has held a referendum and ceded to Russia, and the West calls it an invasion, you believe them and condemn Russia. Or if China is stopping Western/Turkish meddling with Uyghurs as terrorists, because that's how they (West, Turkey and GCC states) have done it in the past, you consider that China is anti-Islam.

30 years of Western wars on the Islamic World go unchallenged. Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia get destroyed, but that's okay ... right?!

If that's what you got from my article, then I pity your intellect.

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## HAIDER

Nasr said:


> Truth about Uyghurs and the West:
> 
> The Uyghurs are a political and nationalistic movement, not an Islamic one. The ETIM or the East Turkestan Islamic Movement have been listed in the United Nations Security Council as a terrorist group. Until of course, their God-Father eternal, america, had the ETIM removed from the terrorist group listing, November 2020. The same america that told the world that Iraq had WMD.
> 
> People truly are gullible and hopelessly naive to believe every word that comes out Western MSM. The same way people believed Iraq had WMD, stood by and watched 500,000 Iraqi children die due to american sanctions. And then again, the same people who sat mindlessly numb as the world witnessed how britain and france bombed Libya, all because the West dictated that "Qaddafi must go."
> 
> It's convenient for the Western Mainstream Media to highlight and amplify their focus on Uyghurs, since america has a new enemy, China. It's the same Modus Operandi when america was demonizing Russia. No one ever bothers to study what the historical background is. The Zionist owned and controlled Western Empire has a historical record of arming, indoctrinating, training and supporting armed groups which periodically morph into terrorist outfits. Be it Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda terrorist group, where Osama was trained by the CIA and was it's point-man in the Soviet-Afghan War. Or be it Syria or Libya, where america/britain/france have used their henchmen (turkey, emirates, saudis) to arm, train and indoctrinate terrorist groups to bring war, bloodshed and chaos in those countries.
> 
> Uyghurs are no different, where they have been clandestinely used by turkey, in Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syria says up to 5,000 Chinese Uighurs fighting in militant groups
> 
> 
> Up to 5,000 ethnic Uighurs from China's violence-prone far western region of Xinjiang are fighting in various militant groups in Syria, the Syrian ambassador to China said on Monday, adding that Beijing should be extremely concerned about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here, the West has again shown how they use Islam as a pretext to further their cause. They (West) hide behind the curtains and pull the strings of their puppets (turkey, emirates, qatar, saudis and etc), and their puppets use these pawns (nusra, al-qaeda, hts, isis) to spread terror, bloodshed and chaos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erdogan’s mercenaries in Syria take aim at each other
> 
> 
> Reports have surfaced that Turkey is sending 8,000 Syrians, along with hundreds of non-Syrians, to fight in Libya.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theduran.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 2018 the US Was at War With Uyghur Terrorists. Now It Claims They Don't Even Exist
> 
> 
> With China now in the crosshairs, ETIM, a Uyghur terrorist group, has moved from being an adversary of the US to being a potential asset.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mintpressnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European Research:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ürümqi to Oslo: Uyghur Militancy and the War on Terror
> 
> 
> Jack Broome, security analyst specializing in ethno-nationalist conflict and anti-state activity across East Asia and Southeast Asia. This is the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eeradicalization.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main actors, a puppet state of the Zionist-West, is Turkey. Where Turkey played a pivotal role when america/britain/france were aiming at Libya. It is Turkey who did the dirty work on the ground for it's Zionist-Western masters. Since america was already embroiled in wars, tangled up in Afghanistan (10 years at the time, 2011/2012) and Iraq (7 years at the time, 2011/2012). It was Turkey who provided the terrorist fighters to ignite civil war in Libya. Their (Turks) route into Libya was through massive construction contracts it obtained when Libyan Government awarded Turkish companies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erdogan’s Sinister Game in Libya: Construction Corruption
> 
> 
> The ugliness of kleptocracy is often easy to see. Those who have visited Libya report that for an oil state it has very unimpressive infrastructure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> channel16.dryadglobal.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see many bright minds, young and ambitious, on this forum. Yet most are misguided, misinformed and some yet are utterly ignorant. No one bothers to investigate, to research or to study both sides of the story before weighing on the subject. And majority devoid of ever going to the Noble Qur'an for guidance.
> 
> I have warned my people (Pakistanis) a million times about watching out for deception and traps. They (kuffar) are after Pakistan, not because Pakistan has Oil, or Gold, or Minerals. No ... it's because Pakistan is the first and only Muslim State to have an active, deadly Arsenal of Nuclear Weapons capable of annihilating israel, if israel ever dared to demolish Masjid Al-Aqsa and Qubrat-ul-Sakhra. A few weeks ago, when israeli terrorist state sent in it's thugs to beat out the Muslims from performing Salah in Masjid Al-Aqsa and kicking out Palestinians from their homes to make way for israeli settlements in Sheikh Jarrah (East Jerusalem). The Palestinians launched protests. In one of those protests which was video recorded, they called out the Army of one Muslim nation to respond to israeli aggression. The Army was of Pakistan ... NOT turkey, NOT qatar, NOT egypt, NOT jordan, NOT sauds and most certainly NOT emirates.
> 
> China is Pakistan's primary and most important ally, partner and brother nation and neighbor. China has been there for Pakistan, in moral, political and tangible support for Pakistan in our most testing of times (Alhumdulillah ala Shukrillah). China has not declared War on Islam, it has been america, britain, france and the rest of the zionist-West over several centuries. China didn't send out Crusades, the zionist-West did. China didn't colonize two thirds of the planet and imposed it's hegemony on the world, the zionist-West did. The millions of Bengal indians who died of starvation, wasn't because of China, it was britain the colonial/imperial master that ordered the entire grain stock to be shipped back to britain for their war. China doesn't have upto 1000 military bases around the world, the zionist-Western states of america does.
> 
> The Uyghur issue is being sensationalized because the West now wants China as an enemy. The Uyghurs are being used to corner Pakistanis, because China is it's most important ally. The Uyghur problem is being amplified by the zionist-Western MSM to try and proliferate their narrative of a China vs Islam scenario. They (zionist-West) want Muslims (2 billion on the planet) and China (1.4 billion on the planet) to fight each other, so they can keep ruling the world for another 100 years.
> 
> You guys seriously need to get your head screwed on right. They are making fools out of you and you are falling for it every step of the way like a bunch of mindless buffoons. From Syria War, to Iraq War, to Libya War, to Turkey, to Saudis, to Emiratis .... you are being taken for a ride and you are willing participants without any serious investigation, or research or going to the Noble Qur'an for guidance. Instead you believe everything they (zionist-Western MSM) is feeding you through misinformation news outlets.
> 
> Remember Dajjal is the master of deception.


To neutralize the Chinese economic power, democracy is the best tool. Democracy has been tested and implemented in the Arab world, where the system failed because it the culture. Democracy is not the cure but the way to implement a system where people in govt for sale anytime.


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## Goritoes

rent4country said:


> Noteworthy, that will the topic is about Muslim genocide in China, your first thought was not about them, but about what you feel about the west. The West theoretically could say the same statement in reverse about you.



Sure, West can say whatever they want, Actually, they are the superpower of this time and century, Whoever holds the largest Stick decides the rule of the game, West is slaughtering Muslims for decades, and supporting Dictators and Govt who killed Muslims in the thousands, so their cry over Uighur is nothing but Crocodile tears, Trust me its all dirty game that West is playing against Rising China, they did it with USSR and today they proudly Brag about how they launch misleading and fake stories against them to turn the people's opinion.

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## rent4country

Goritoes said:


> Sure, West can say whatever they want, Actually, they are the superpower of this time and century, Whoever holds the largest Stick decides the rule of the game, West is slaughtering Muslims for decades, and supporting Dictators and Govt who killed Muslims in the thousands, so their cry over Uighur is nothing but Crocodile tears, Trust me its all dirty game that West is playing against Rising China, they did it with USSR and today they proudly Brag about how they launch misleading and fake stories against them to turn the people's opinion.



Over a million Uyghurs kidnaped, forced into labor camps, demographic changes made, genocide, rape, and other atrocities - ignored. 
But I like your principles...The west (whom IMO you blame falsely for attacking/killing Muslims en masse- while the vast vast Muslim world has close ties with us), are such evil people - that you had to come live among us.

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## Goritoes

rent4country said:


> Over a million Uyghurs kidnaped, forced into labor camps, demographic changes made, genocide, rape, and other atrocities - ignored.
> But I like your principles...The west (whom IMO you blame falsely for attacking/killing Muslims en masse- while the vast vast Muslim world has close ties with us), are such evil people - that you had to come live among us.



Evidence? 1 Million? WMD's?

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## rent4country

Goritoes said:


> Evidence? 1 Million? WMD's?


no evidence, UN/multitude of countries are all lying. 

China supporting dictators that slaughter Muslims also false.


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## Goritoes

rent4country said:


> no evidence, UN/multitude of countries are all lying.
> 
> China supporting dictators that slaughter Muslims also false.



The same UN who kept a blind eye on Kashmiri's, Palestinians? the same countries who believed in WMD's and many of those UN countries didn't find anything. As I said we live in world of deception and no one, and I repeat no one is telling the world truth, And West's love for Muslims against China is hypocritical to say the least.


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## rent4country

Goritoes said:


> The same UN who kept a blind eye on Kashmiri's, Palestinians? the same countries who believed in WMD's and many of those UN countries didn't find anything. As I said we live in world of deception and no one, and I repeat no one is telling the world truth, And West's love for Muslims against China is hypocritical to say the least.



Yup same UN. the thousands upon thousands of articles, investigations all - lies. 

In the future, your way to bring everything outside of the specific topic should be standard i.e. If you come and complain about Palestine, Kashmir, or anything near and dear to you. People get to use the same approach as you do. they can say- is that same Pakistan asking _ that had OBL in a mansion there? we can't hear your grievances or ever believe you because of that

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## Goritoes

rent4country said:


> Yup same UN. the thousands upon thousands of articles, investigations all - lies.
> 
> In the future, your way to bring everything outside of the specific topic should be standard i.e. If you come and complain about Palestine, Kashmir, or anything near and dear to you. People get to use the same approach as you do. they can say- is that same Pakistan asking _ that had OBL in a mansion there? we can't hear your grievances or ever believe you because of that



Oh wow, undeniably prove, The Article  anyone can write articles with a couple of Thousands with vague or no Proper source or evidence, As I said if West let 60+ kids bombed to bits and their cry is for Chinese Muslim gives me and everyone else doubt that its more that meets the eye. You can repeat all you want but the thing is the Hypocrisy of the west becomes clear when Israel was bombing Palestine while the entire West looks the other way or even have the balls to condemn it.

As for OBL, only those who shout USA USA in Trump Rallies, hardly showered in a year, and smell like nacho and Beer believe in that Fairy tale


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## rent4country

Goritoes said:


> Oh wow, undeniably prove, The Article  anyone can write articles with a couple of Thousands with vague or no Proper source or evidence, As I said if West let 60+ kids bombed to bits and their cry is for Chinese Muslim gives me and everyone else doubt that its more that meets the eye. You can repeat all you want but the thing is the Hypocrisy of the west becomes clear when Israel was bombing Palestine while the entire West looks the other way or even have the balls to condemn it.
> 
> As for OBL, only those who shout USA USA in Trump Rallies, hardly showered in a year, and smell like nacho and Beer believe in that Fairy tale


it was the west who got the cease-fire in place- not anyone else. Hamas shot 4500 rockets at Isreal. if India does that to Pakistan, you would retaliate hard too. you don't care about 1 million Uyghurs being executed, kidnaped, raped, and tortured- I'm sorry I can't take your plea seriously about any other country.

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## Goritoes

rent4country said:


> it was the west who got the cease-fire in place- not anyone else. Hamas shot 4500 rockets at Isreal. if India does that to Pakistan, you would retaliate hard too. you don't care about 1 million Uyghurs being executed, kidnaped, raped, and tortured- I'm sorry I can't take your plea seriously about any other country.



 First take action against the War crimes of Israel and India, then talk.


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## rent4country

Goritoes said:


> First take action against the War crimes of Israel and India, then talk.


war crimes evidence? I find it hard to believe your concerns for Palestine when you don't care about the genocide of Uyghurs

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## Goritoes

rent4country said:


> war crimes evidence? I find it hard to believe your concerns for Palestine when you don't care about the genocide of Uyghurs



And I find it impossible for your and Western Concern over Uyghurs when they don't care about Kashmiri and Palestinians.


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## rent4country

Analysis: China needs to boost its population so why not scrap birth quotas entirely? The reason might be Xinjiang


In a bid to arrest a demographic crisis, China this week announced it will allow couples to have three children -- but some critics questioned why the government kept a limit on parents at all?




www.cnn.com





Hong Kong (CNN)In a bid to arrest a demographic crisis, China this week announced it will allow couples to have three children -- but some critics questioned why the government kept a limit on parents at all?

The answer might lie in Beijing's attitudes towards its ethnic minorities, particularly those in Xinjiang.

*Since 2017, the Chinese government has strictly enforced its family planning policies on minorities in the far-western province, where Beijing is accused of committing genocide against the Muslim-majority Uyghur people. The crackdown caused local birth rates to plunge by a third in 2018.*

The Chinese government strongly denies allegations of genocide and says that any attempts to limit the Uyghur population fall within the country's standard birth control policies.

Experts said Beijing is reluctant to remove all quotas on the number of children per family for several reasons. But one major factor is that ending the policy would make it much more difficult to justify Beijing's attempts to limit the population in Xinjiang and other regions with large minority groups, which tend to have more children.

"Continuing to limit births among populations deemed problematic is certainly part of the calculus," said Darren Byler, a Xinjiang expert and a postdoctoral research fellow at the University of Colorado.

"If there was no policy across the whole country, it would be difficult to enforce a separate one for poor people and Muslims."

*Bucking the trend*
China's birth rate has been falling rapidly since the introduction of the one-child policy more than 40 years ago, which limited couples to one baby in order to alleviate poverty and stem a population boom.

While the policy successfully reined in birth rates as China developed, in more recent years officials have become concerned the country won't have enough young workers to keep powering its economic growth. A rapidly aging workforce, expecting their promised pensions, has only exacerbated those pressures.

Faced with a demographic crisis, the Chinese government relaxed the policy in 2016 to allow for two children, but many couples in the Han middle class were reluctant to have more than one child, citing the high costs of raising families particularly in cities. In 2020, the birth rate fell by almost 15% year on year.


*Sudden drop*
But when the Chinese government began its crackdown in Xinjiang in 2017, which allegedly involved sending millions of Uyghurs to a vast complex of detention centers, there was a simultaneous tightening of family planning policies.

Between 2017 and 2018, birth rates in Xinjiang dropped by a third, from 15.8 per 1,000 people to 10.7 per 1,000 people.
In a fax to CNN in September 2020, the Chinese government attributed the drop in the birth rate to "the comprehensive implementation of the family planning policy."

At a time when the Chinese government was desperately trying to raise birth rates, sterilizations in the region surged to 243 per 100,000 people in 2018, according to official government documents referenced in a report by Xinjiang researcher Adrian Zenz. That is far higher than the rate of 33 per 100,000 people for the rest of the country.

And while the use of IUD birth control devices dropped in China between 2016 and 2018, Zenz quoted documents showing in Xinjiang it rose to 963 per 100,000 people.

Female Uyghurs who have since left Xinjiang say they were subjected to forced contraception and sterilizations.

In his report, Zenz quoted official Chinese government policy directives beginning in 2017 which call on administrators to "severely attack behaviors that violate family planning (policies)." From that year, minority regions began a "special campaign to control birth control violations."


*One ethnic Uyghur doctor who fled to Turkey said in 2020 that out of 300 exiled Uyghur women she examined from Xinjiang, about 80 had been sterilized. Many of them didn't even know they'd undergone the procedure.*

*The Chinese government did not mention minorities, including Uyghurs, in its relaxing of the three-child policy, and authorities have consistently denied accusations of forced contraception and sterilization.

State-run media blamed Xinjiang's previously high birth rates on religious extremism, and painted declining fertility as a victory for women's rights.

Experts said it is unlikely the rules will be relaxed for minorities any time soon.*

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## Beast

Another dumb article written by idiots who has no idea of system working in China and purely used his imagination and fart to conjured his article.

Minorities in China are not under any families planning in China ever since. Those restriction are on Han Chinese only.

That is why u go Xinjiang and Tibet, you can find their(Uyhgur or Tibetan) families are big and they have even 4-5 siblings , many brother or sisters. If you see any minorities in China, its common Chinese will ask them how many brothers or sisters they have...

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## Surya 1

rent4country said:


> Analysis: China needs to boost its population so why not scrap birth quotas entirely? The reason might be Xinjiang
> 
> 
> In a bid to arrest a demographic crisis, China this week announced it will allow couples to have three children -- but some critics questioned why the government kept a limit on parents at all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hong Kong (CNN)In a bid to arrest a demographic crisis, China this week announced it will allow couples to have three children -- but some critics questioned why the government kept a limit on parents at all?
> 
> The answer might lie in Beijing's attitudes towards its ethnic minorities, particularly those in Xinjiang.
> 
> *Since 2017, the Chinese government has strictly enforced its family planning policies on minorities in the far-western province, where Beijing is accused of committing genocide against the Muslim-majority Uyghur people. The crackdown caused local birth rates to plunge by a third in 2018.*
> 
> The Chinese government strongly denies allegations of genocide and says that any attempts to limit the Uyghur population fall within the country's standard birth control policies.
> 
> Experts said Beijing is reluctant to remove all quotas on the number of children per family for several reasons. But one major factor is that ending the policy would make it much more difficult to justify Beijing's attempts to limit the population in Xinjiang and other regions with large minority groups, which tend to have more children.
> 
> "Continuing to limit births among populations deemed problematic is certainly part of the calculus," said Darren Byler, a Xinjiang expert and a postdoctoral research fellow at the University of Colorado.
> 
> "If there was no policy across the whole country, it would be difficult to enforce a separate one for poor people and Muslims."
> 
> *Bucking the trend*
> China's birth rate has been falling rapidly since the introduction of the one-child policy more than 40 years ago, which limited couples to one baby in order to alleviate poverty and stem a population boom.
> 
> While the policy successfully reined in birth rates as China developed, in more recent years officials have become concerned the country won't have enough young workers to keep powering its economic growth. A rapidly aging workforce, expecting their promised pensions, has only exacerbated those pressures.
> 
> Faced with a demographic crisis, the Chinese government relaxed the policy in 2016 to allow for two children, but many couples in the Han middle class were reluctant to have more than one child, citing the high costs of raising families particularly in cities. In 2020, the birth rate fell by almost 15% year on year.
> 
> 
> *Sudden drop*
> But when the Chinese government began its crackdown in Xinjiang in 2017, which allegedly involved sending millions of Uyghurs to a vast complex of detention centers, there was a simultaneous tightening of family planning policies.
> 
> Between 2017 and 2018, birth rates in Xinjiang dropped by a third, from 15.8 per 1,000 people to 10.7 per 1,000 people.
> In a fax to CNN in September 2020, the Chinese government attributed the drop in the birth rate to "the comprehensive implementation of the family planning policy."
> 
> At a time when the Chinese government was desperately trying to raise birth rates, sterilizations in the region surged to 243 per 100,000 people in 2018, according to official government documents referenced in a report by Xinjiang researcher Adrian Zenz. That is far higher than the rate of 33 per 100,000 people for the rest of the country.
> 
> And while the use of IUD birth control devices dropped in China between 2016 and 2018, Zenz quoted documents showing in Xinjiang it rose to 963 per 100,000 people.
> 
> Female Uyghurs who have since left Xinjiang say they were subjected to forced contraception and sterilizations.
> 
> In his report, Zenz quoted official Chinese government policy directives beginning in 2017 which call on administrators to "severely attack behaviors that violate family planning (policies)." From that year, minority regions began a "special campaign to control birth control violations."
> 
> 
> *One ethnic Uyghur doctor who fled to Turkey said in 2020 that out of 300 exiled Uyghur women she examined from Xinjiang, about 80 had been sterilized. Many of them didn't even know they'd undergone the procedure.*
> 
> *The Chinese government did not mention minorities, including Uyghurs, in its relaxing of the three-child policy, and authorities have consistently denied accusations of forced contraception and sterilization.
> 
> State-run media blamed Xinjiang's previously high birth rates on religious extremism, and painted declining fertility as a victory for women's rights.
> 
> Experts said it is unlikely the rules will be relaxed for minorities any time soon.*


China map may cap the birthrate of uighurs. They have the capability to do that. It is not a democratic government answerable to the citizen that way they discriminated against a particular group in applying the law.

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## rent4country

Beast said:


> Another dumb article written by idiots who has no idea of system working in China and purely used his imagination and fart to conjured his article.
> 
> Minorities in China are not under any families planning in China ever since. Those restriction are on Han Chinese only.
> 
> That is why u go Xinxiang and Tibet, you can find their(Uyhgur or Tibetan) families are big and they have even 4-5 siblings , many brother or sisters. If you see any minorities in China, its common Chinese will ask them how many brothers or sisters they have...



*you guys forcing sterilization of Muslim women* and you think your propaganda is being bought by anyone other than fellow Chinese? LOL

*China cuts Uighur births with IUDs, abortion, sterilization*








China cuts Uighur births with IUDs, abortion, sterilization


The Chinese government is taking draconian measures to slash birth rates among Uighurs and other minorities as part of a sweeping campaign to curb its Muslim population, even as it encourages some of the country’s Han majority to have more children.




apnews.com

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## Beast

These minorities in Kashgar family has 3 daughters.


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## rent4country

Beast said:


> These minorities in Kashgar family has 3 daughters.



Oh nooo, propaganda youtube videos again, on a platform that is banned in China.

*China cuts Uighur births with IUDs, abortion, sterilization*








China cuts Uighur births with IUDs, abortion, sterilization


The Chinese government is taking draconian measures to slash birth rates among Uighurs and other minorities as part of a sweeping campaign to curb its Muslim population, even as it encourages some of the country’s Han majority to have more children.




apnews.com

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## beijingwalker

*Summer sleepless city: 12 AM midnight, June. 5 2021, Kashgar old city, Xinjiang, CHINA*


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## silverox

The United States and Israel are important drivers of the topic of Uyghur genocide. They want to transfer their contradiction with the Islamic world into a contradiction between China and the Islamic world, and encourage hostility between the Islamic world and China. The offshore balance strategy of the Anglo-Saxons has been this way for 500 years. Let competitors kill each other and they can profit from it.
Whether it is China, Iran, Russia, Arab countries, or even the United States itself, they don’t want to see Turkey re-establish the Ottoman Empire. The Uyghur pan-Turkic rebellion has received U.S. military support. Jewish organizations are very hard on the hype of the topic of Uyghur genocide. I wonder what exactly the Jews want to achieve.


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang is actually the only bright spot in central and south Asian for development and prosperity, and the development level between Xinjiang and neighboring countries is rapidly widenning by the day.


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## rent4country

*EXCLUSIVE China policies could cut millions of Uyghur births in Xinjiang*








EXCLUSIVE China policies could cut millions of Uyghur births in Xinjiang


Chinese birth control policies could cut between 2.6 to 4.5 million births of the Uyghur and other ethnic minorities in southern Xinjiang within 20 years, up to a third of the region’s projected minority population, according to a new analysis by a German researcher.




www.reuters.com

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## beijingwalker

Western media needs to learn some basics in the China bashing campaign, Uihgurs altogether account for around 1% of China's population, how can they make any impact on China's population trends? It's a no brainer.

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## rent4country

beijingwalker said:


> Western media needs to learn some basics in the China bashing campaign, Uihgurs altogether account for around 1% of China's population, how can they make any impact on China's population trends? It's a no brainer.


wait, because they make up 14 million of the population, they should be forced into abortions, sterilizations, and IUD's? heh

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## CAPRICORN-88

_
If China really wants to boosts the growth of its population as claimed by ignorant people, she would have removed the limit. 

Another silly thread. _


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## beijingwalker

rent4country said:


> wait, because they make up 14 million of the population, they should be forced into abortions, sterilizations, and IUD's? heh


They are not, western media is just crazy, if what they claim is true, there will be no people on the streets in XInjiang, but the fact is even the remotest border corner in Xinjiang are flush with people enjoying their lives.

*May 28, 2021, Sunsets at Yili River in a small Kazakh border town sitting next to Kazakhstan in northern Xinjiang*
Feel so lucky to live and enjoy daily life in the only covid free country in the world.






*12 AM midnight, June 5, 2021, Kashgar old town, Xinjiang, CHINA*


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## beijingwalker

I admit that the Chinese government was heavy handed in controlling the population size of Han Chinese in the early 1980's, but the minority groups were exempt from that policy from day one, they always enjoyed preferential policies on that matter, they've got nothing to complain about on this issue.


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## CAPRICORN-88

beijingwalker said:


> I admit that the Chinese government was heavy handed in controlling the population size of Han Chinese in the early 1980's, but the minority groups were exempt from that policy from day one, they always enjoyed preferential policies on that matter, they've got nothing to complain about on this issue.




_This is something I totally disagree. 

The rule should have been applied equally to every citizen across the nation. _


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## beijingwalker

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _This is something I totally disagree.
> 
> The rule should have been applied equally to every citizen across the nation. _


We are on the same mind on this. This institutionalised reverse discrimination against Han Chinese in China has been around in China for 7 decades and caused a lot of discontent among the Han Chinese.

*Affirmative action in China*





Affirmative action in China - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Reashot Xigwin

Beast said:


> Another dumb article written by idiots who has no idea of system working in China and purely used his imagination and fart to conjured his article.
> 
> Minorities in China are not under any families planning in China ever since. Those restriction are on Han Chinese only.
> 
> That is why u go Xinjiang and Tibet, you can find their(Uyhgur or Tibetan) families are big and they have even 4-5 siblings , many brother or sisters. If you see any minorities in China, its common Chinese will ask them how many brothers or sisters they have...



China's own government paper confirms the existence of populations control, from birth control, IUD, Sterilizations & Abortions. 

All the west does is just translating the Government own paper.


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## CAPRICORN-88

beijingwalker said:


> We are on the same mind on this. This institutionalised reverse discrimination against Han Chinese in China has been around in China for 7 decades and caused a lot of discontent among the Han Chinese.
> 
> *Affirmative action in China*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Affirmative action in China - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



_Agree. if the law is introduced for the common good of the nation then no ethnic group should be discriminated upon.  _


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## beijingwalker

Reashot Xigwin said:


> China's own government paper confirms the existence of populations control, from birth control, IUD, Sterilizations & Abortions.
> 
> All the west does is just translating the Government own paper.


What "own" paper? but as I mentioned, it did happen to Han Chinese, I m not denying this. it's one of the mistakes that Chinese government made in the past.


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## Reashot Xigwin

beijingwalker said:


> What "own" paper? but as I mentioned, it did happen to Han Chinese, I m not denying this. it's one of the mistakes that Chinese government made in the past.


Just posting my L 








首页-尼勒克县政府网


archived 18 May 2020 19:12:02 UTC




archive.is











Nilka County’s family planning policyfor floating populationsin 2019 stated that women with three or more children shouldbe sterilized (Nilka County, November 20, 2019) 



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/29/the-human-suffering-caused-by-chinas-one-child-policy/



In past decades, women throughout China were pressured to submit to sterilization procedures once they had the maximum permitted number of children (e.g. Washington Post, October 29, 2015).


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## beijingwalker

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Just posting my L
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 首页-尼勒克县政府网
> 
> 
> archived 18 May 2020 19:12:02 UTC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> archive.is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 751307
> 
> 
> Nilka County’s family planning policyfor floating populationsin 2019 stated that women with three or more children shouldbe sterilized (Nilka County, November 20, 2019)
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/29/the-human-suffering-caused-by-chinas-one-child-policy/
> 
> 
> 
> In past decades, women throughout China were pressured to submit to sterilization procedures once they had the maximum permitted number of children (e.g. Washington Post, October 29, 2015).


I didn't see the chart you posted on the link you provided, and the link says the monitor of " floating populaiton" , that means people live in the region for a short time, and it didn't mention ethnicity, around half of Xinjiang's population are Han Chinese.


Reashot Xigwin said:


> Nilka County’s family planning policyfor floating populationsin 2019 stated that women with three or more children shouldbe sterilized (Nilka County, November 20, 2019)


I guess this can only happen in Xinjiang. a sounding hard proof that they enjoy such a preferential policy comparing to other regions in China.

We are all Chinese citizens, when only people in Xinjiang and Tibet and other minority groups can be exempt from China's one child policy???


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## Reashot Xigwin

beijingwalker said:


> I didn't see the chart you posted on the link you provided, and the link says the monitor of " floating populaiton" , that means people live in the region for a short time, and it didn't mention ethnicity, around half of Xinjiang's population are Han Chinese.
> 
> I guess that can only happen in Xinjiang. a sounding hard proof that they enjoy such a preferential policy comparing to other regions in China.



& guess which half is getting the coat rack treatment? Seriously this is what happens if they never teach kids about critical thinking. 

All of this is pretty much in the public domain already. Why do you think every news orgs & country can say without doubt there's an ethnic cleansing going on.



> Guide the masses of farmers and herdsmen to spontaneously carry out family planning sterilization surgery, implement the free policy of birth control surgery, effectively promote family planning work, and effectively control excessive population growth.[



In 2019, Xinjiang’s Health Commission’s family planning budgeteda generous $16.7 million (120 million RMB)for this project. [45] The project providesfree“birth control surgeries” (节育手术, jieyu shoushu)to all four southern regions in Xinjiang—to includehealth checks,IUD services, abortions,andsterilizations—with the aim to reduce these regions’2020 birth and population growth ratesby“at least” 4per millepoints belowthe 2016 level. Numerous localfamily planningdocuments testify to the ubiquitous nature of this initiativefrom 2018, but especially in 2019 and 2020—the author has identified related project descriptionsfor those two yearsthat specifically mention free sterilization procedures in at least eightminority counties(see Appendix A).[46] However, two 2019 countybudgets indicatethatthe program serves as a cover for a campaign of mass sterilizationin rural Uyghur regions.In Guma (Pishan)County, the 2019 family planning budget plan called for 8,064 female sterilizations (结扎,jieza)—as well as5,970 IUD placements,4,281 IUD removals,81,152 pregnancy tests,and 157,301 IUD checks. [47] These figures are listed in a table titled “project performance indicators,” and are referred to as “numerical indicators” for “project completion.”The same (2019) figures for Hotan City are even more drastic. While expecting to fitonly 524 IUDs, the region was scheduled to administer 14,872 female sterilizations(Hotan City, March 20, 2019). [48]The region’s public documents bluntly state this as a “target”(目标)to be achieved. [





__





Wayback Machine






web.archive.org


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## beijingwalker

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Nilka County’s family planning policyfor floating populationsin 2019 stated that women with three or more children shouldbe sterilized (Nilka County, November 20, 2019)


This really caused a lot of discontent among Han Chinese, a blutant discrimination against Han Chinese.


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## xuxu1457

You are cheating me, there are no Uighurs in the world now, only two million Uighurs in 1949, after 70 years of genocide, how can it still exist?
Now 12 million Uighurs, are fake, are others pretending to be actors, in fact, we Uighurs have long been extinct. Believe me, I have inside information and Google maps to prove it.


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## Nasr

Please ... Western MSM is like a desperate prostitute pushing for the narrative of it's zionist-masters.

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## Reashot Xigwin

beijingwalker said:


> This really caused a lot of discontent among Han Chinese, a blutant discrimination against Han Chinese.



Those areas that CCP targetted are majority Uighur Area hardly any Han there & There's no insertion of IUD or sterilization being enacted on the Han. 

You should really do your research.


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## newb3e

beijingwalker said:


> Western media needs to learn some basics in the China bashing campaign, Uihgurs altogether account for around 1% of China's population, how can they make any impact on China's population trends? It's a no brainer.


as long as 1 billion yindus are reading their bs they are happy 1 billion clicks a day makes them good money!

west feel blessed hindus are still happy to serve them and making them good money!

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## Reashot Xigwin

Nasr said:


> Please ... Western MSM is like a desperate prostitute pushing for the narrative of it's zionist-masters.


Ah yes because nothing screams desperate than saying China wants to be loved.









Xi wants to make China more lovable around the world


The sheer breadth of issues and depth of accusations facing Beijing may make it trickier to put a more positive case before the court of public opinion.




www.nbcnews.com


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## beijingwalker

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Those areas that CCP targetted are majority Uighur Area hardly any Han there & There's no insertion of IUD or sterilization being enacted on the Han.
> 
> You should really do your research.


I don't my research or you do your research? how come the same sources also shows Uighur birth rate is still twice as high as Han's? how do you explain it?


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## Titanium100

Articles like this anger me because it is so fake and I don't know why the mods tolerate this intellectually bankrupt propaganda.. And you just attached the Uighur name for propaganda. It is decitful...

Just for your information the Uighurs are around 8mil in whole of China... That is like a drop of a sand in the sahara desert to even become a relevant topic.. China is 1.4billion nation in context.. Do you understand now why this article doesn't make sense.. The uighur need atleast 1000 years to just reach 200 million.. They are not even on China concern list... I find it quite decitful to attach that with china's decision to increase it's population..

Also why is this poster posting outside the Xinjiang mega-thread... The mods should not accept propaganda spamming outside of it's mega-thread... @waz @LeGenD @PakSword

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## xuxu1457




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## War Thunder

Maira La said:


> Isn't the Uyghur issue similar to Balochistan issue? Concentration camps, missing people and what not.. If you buy into Western propaganda on Uyghurs, you should do the same on Baloch issue and address that first!




Where is the western propaganda on balochistan issue?
Unless you are an indian in disguise and taking your food from your bollywood media and taking that as the opinion of the entire world?


Titanium100 said:


> Articles like this anger me because it is so fake and I don't know why the mods tolerate this intellectually bankrupt propaganda.. And you just attached the Uighur name for propaganda. It is decitful...
> 
> Just for your information the Uighurs are around 8mil in whole of China... That is like a drop of a sand in the sahara desert to even become a relevant topic.. China is 1.4billion nation in context.. Do you understand now why this article doesn't make sense.. The uighur need atleast 1000 years to just reach 200 million.. They are not even on China concern list... I find it quite decitful to attach that with china's decision to increase it's population..
> 
> Also why is this poster posting outside the Xinjiang mega-thread... The mods should not accept propaganda spamming outside of it's mega-thread... @waz @LeGenD @PakSword




And why should we limit our informational content and discussions to only one thread just to make you feel good?

Also what's stopping you from carrying a Chinese flag next to your profile name?



@mods Why are we getting dictated by Chinese on where they want all Uyghur related issues to be posted? A Chinese will start a mega thread and we will be dictated by them on where the rest of the threads should go to?

@waz


Clutch said:


> Interesting thing is why do Pakistani always get asked about Uyghurs .... Why don't they ask the UAE? Why don't they ask the Saudis? Why don't they ask the Omani? Why don't they ask the Bahraini???... Why always Pakistan?
> 
> Because it's all BS... They whole Uyghur Fake News is designed to break Pakistan-China alliance... Nothing more.





Interesting thing is then why does the closest Ally of China....Pakistan, has nothing to answer but "we are discussing that through internal channels"?
Why doesn't he say there is no issue and its all propaganda?

How genius one of you has to be understand the simple fact that your own FM didn't say it was propaganda but said there was an issue which they were handling internally?


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## War Thunder

Feng Leng said:


> How many megatons of JL-3 warheads do you think Indonesia can absorb?





So said all the wanna be super powers in history of mankind.
You know where they are right now? 

Your country lacks the bone to bomb anyone let alone Indonesia. They just keep talking to make your population happy. 

Do this talk after you have "taken" your own territory from Taiwanese. You'll look sane at that point


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## Maira La

War Thunder said:


> Where is the western propaganda on balochistan issue?
> Unless you are an indian in disguise and taking your food from your bollywood media and taking that as the opinion of the entire world?











‘Pak running multiple concentration camps in Balochistan’ - The Sunday Guardian Live


New Delhi: Senior Baloch nationalist leader Dr Allah Nazar, in an exclusive interaction with The Sunday Guardian, said that for the last two years, Pakistan was operating multiple concentration camps in the Balochistan region. According to Dr Nazar, who was announced dead by the Pakistan army in...



www.sundayguardianlive.com


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## denel

China: Draconian repression of Muslims in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity


Hundreds of thousands of Muslim minority men and women subjected to mass internment and torture Millions of Muslims subjected to systematized mass surveillance Muslim ethnic groups forced to abandon their religious traditions, cultural practices and local languages More than 50 former camp...




www.amnesty.org








 NEWS
© Molly Crabapple

*SHARE*
Facebook
Twitter
*China: Draconian repression of Muslims in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity*
10 June 2021, 16:00 UTC

*Hundreds of thousands of Muslim minority men and women subjected to mass internment and torture*
*Millions of Muslims subjected to systematized mass surveillance*
*Muslim ethnic groups forced to abandon their religious traditions, cultural practices and local languages*
*More than 50 former camp detainees give harrowing new testimonies with detailed inside look at internment conditions and treatment*
*Amnesty International campaign calls for closure of internment camps, with over 60 detailed casefiles on those thought to be currently detained*
Uyghurs, Kazakhs and other predominantly Muslim ethnic minorities in China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region face systematic state-organized mass imprisonment, torture and persecution amounting to crimes against humanity, Amnesty International said as it launched a new report and campaign today.

In the 160-page report, _‘Like We Were Enemies in a War’: China’s Mass Internment, Torture, and Persecution of Muslims in Xinjiang_, Amnesty International’s Crisis Response team released dozens of new testimonies from former detainees detailing the extreme measures taken by Chinese authorities since 2017 to essentially root out the religious traditions, cultural practices and local languages of the region’s Muslim ethnic groups. Carried out under the guise of fighting “terrorism”, these crimes have targeted ethnic Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Hui, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks and Tajiks.

Chinese authorities have built one of the world’s most sophisticated surveillance systems and a vast network of hundreds of grim “transformation-through-education” centres – actually, internment camps – throughout Xinjiang. Torture and other ill-treatment is systematic in the camps and every aspect of daily life is regimented in an effort to forcibly instil a secular, homogeneous Chinese nation and Communist party ideals.

“The Chinese authorities have created a dystopian hellscape on a staggering scale in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region,” said Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General.


> The Chinese authorities have created a dystopian hellscape on a staggering scale in Xinjiang. Uyghurs, Kazakhs and other Muslim minorities face crimes against humanity and other serious human rights violations that threaten to erase their religious and cultural identities.
> Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General


“Uyghurs, Kazakhs and other Muslim minorities face crimes against humanity and other serious human rights violations that threaten to erase their religious and cultural identities.

“It should shock the conscience of humanity that massive numbers of people have been subjected to brainwashing, torture and other degrading treatment in internment camps, while millions more live in fear amid a vast surveillance apparatus.”
*Mass imprisonment*
The report documents how, since early 2017, huge numbers of men and women from predominantly Muslim ethnic minorities in Xinjiang have been arbitrarily detained. They include hundreds of thousands who have been sent to prisons in addition to hundreds of thousands – perhaps even a million or more – who have been sent to internment camps.

All of the more than 50 former detainees Amnesty International interviewed were detained for what appears to be entirely lawful conduct, such as possessing a religious-themed picture or communicating with someone abroad. A government cadre who participated in mass arrests in late 2017 told the organization how police took people from their homes without warning and detained them without any due process.

Most survivors who spoke to Amnesty International were first interrogated at police stations, where they had their biometric and medical data recorded before being transferred to a camp. They were often interrogated in “tiger chairs” – steel chairs with affixed leg irons and handcuffs that restrain the body in painful positions. Beatings, sleep deprivation and overcrowding are rampant in the police stations, and detainees reported being hooded and shackled during their interrogation and transfer.
Guards surround a large group of detainees in an internment camp in Xinjiang, China. © Molly Crabapple

From the moment they entered the prison-like internment camps, detainees’ lives were extraordinarily regimented. They had no privacy or autonomy, and they faced harsh punishments – sometimes collectively with their cellmates – for trivial disobedience. Internees were forbidden to speak freely to each other, and they were severely punished when they responded to prison guards or other officials in their native tongues instead of Mandarin. Every activity in the detainees’ daily routine was pre-ordained and their behaviour was constantly monitored and evaluated.

One woman who was detained for having WhatsApp on her phone said: “[Every day] you get up at 5am and have to make your bed, and it had to be perfect. Then there was a flag-raising ceremony and an ‘oath-taking’. Then you went to the canteen for breakfast. Then to the classroom. Then lunch. Then to the classroom. Then dinner. Then another class. Then bed. Every night two people had to be ‘on duty’ [monitoring the other cellmates] for two hours… There was not a minute left for yourself. You are exhausted.”

In the early weeks or months of internment, detainees are typically forced to either sit still or kneel in the same position in their cell, in complete silence, for most of their waking hours. Following this, they generally undergo forced “education”, where they are indoctrinated to disavow Islam, forgo using their language and other cultural practices, and study Mandarin Chinese language and Chinese Communist Party propaganda.

Other than being escorted under armed guard to and from canteens, classes or interrogation, detainees practically never leave their cells and rarely see sunlight or have outdoor access or exercise.
*Systematic torture*
Every former detainee Amnesty International interviewed suffered torture or other ill-treatment.
This included the cumulative psychological effect of their daily dehumanization, as well as physical torture in the form of beatings, electric shocks, solitary confinement, deprivation of food, water and sleep, exposure to extreme cold, and the abusive use of restraints, including torture tools like tiger chairs. Some reported being restrained in a tiger chair for 24 hours or more.
A detainee is beaten by internment camp guards while immobilized in a tiger chair. © Molly Crabapple

An older woman who was punished for defending her cellmate said she was taken to a small, dark, cold and windowless room where she had her hands and feet cuffed and was forced to sit on an iron chair for three days straight.

Two former detainees said they had been forced to wear heavy shackles – in one case for an entire year. Others described being shocked with electric batons or sprayed with pepper spray.

Some detainees reported being tortured multiple times, while others were forced to watch their cellmates being tortured. Amnesty International learned of one case where a detainee is believed to have died as a result of being restrained in a tiger chair, in front of his cellmates, for 72 hours, during which time he urinated and defecated on himself.
*Surveillance state*
Both inside and outside the camps, Xinjiang’s Muslims are among the most heavily surveilled populations in the world.
For at least several months after being released from a camp, all former internees are under near-constant electronic and in-person surveillance, including invasive “homestays” by government cadres who monitor them and report “suspicious” behaviour. This could be peaceful religious practices, the use of unauthorized communications software (such as VPNs or WhatsApp), or purchasing an “unusual” amount of fuel or electricity.

Freedom of movement for released internees is also heavily restricted, with a massive number of security forces patrolling the streets and operating thousands of checkpoints, euphemistically known as “convenience police stations”.
A security checkpoint outside of a train station in Urumqi, Xinjiang. Han Chinese people and members of predominantly Muslim ethnic groups go through separate checkpoints. Muslims are subjected to much more severe security checks. © Molly Crabapple*Religious persecution*
Muslims are not free to practice their religion in Xinjiang. Dozens of Muslim men and women told Amnesty International the regional Chinese authorities showed extraordinary hostility towards their Islamic faith. Basic religious and cultural practices have been deemed “extremist” and used as grounds for detention.

As a result, most people have stopped praying or showing any outward signs of observing Islam. This extends to dress, grooming and even speech. “We couldn’t say ‘_as-salamu-alaykum_’ [a typical greeting in many Islamic cultures meaning “peace be upon you”] …anymore,” one man told Amnesty International. Qur’ans, prayer mats and other religious artifacts have effectively been banned.

Former Chinese government cadres told Amnesty International how they barged into people’s homes to confiscate religious items. “We told them to remove photos [of mosques] and put up [Chinese] flags,” one said.

Those interviewed by Amnesty International described how mosques, shrines, gravesites, and other religious and cultural sites have been systematically demolished or repurposed throughout Xinjiang.
Chinese government officials removing religious and cultural artefacts from a home. © Molly Crabapple*Massive cover-up*
The Chinese government has gone to extraordinary lengths to cover up its violations of international human rights law in Xinjiang. Authorities threaten, detain and mistreat anyone who speaks out.

The fate of hundreds of thousands of detainees is not known. Many may remain in detention in the camps. Others have been given long prison sentences – Chinese state data shows significant increases in prison sentences and satellite imagery shows significant new prison construction in Xinjiang since 2017. Others have been transferred to situations of forced or coerced labour.

“China must immediately dismantle the internment camps, release the people arbitrarily detained in them and in prisons, and end the systematic attacks against Muslims in Xinjiang,” said Agnès Callamard.


> China must immediately dismantle the internment camps, release the people arbitrarily detained in them and in prisons, and end the systematic attacks against Muslims in Xinjiang.
> Agnès Callamard


Mods - please do not insult our intelligence by closing this thread like others are being done or moved under CCP Bot controlled Uighur blanket thread where it is quietened.

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## Leishangthem



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## denel

Leishangthem said:


> View attachment 752554
> 
> View attachment 752563


please report this under KCNA or XInhua. You will find many paid happy clappers to cheer you on.

go enjoy winnie xi wine and wait for a pay check for posting your combat..

ah... i forget.. Winnie Xi told you minions... BE NICE...

too many Xi mosquitos are rampant on thsi forum... another one to block...

If you can write to each point, please do so... otherwise dont waste our bandwidth.


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## casual

An entire report made based on hearsay. Shameful.

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## casual

Another report made based on hearsay. Unverified and without any physically evidence.

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## aziqbal

casual said:


> Another report made based on hearsay. Unverified and without any physically evidence.



then why has the UN Human Rights commissioner been refused to enter Xingjing over 27 times?

if you have nothing to hide why refuse UN to enter, the same UN which China is a permanent member of?

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## aziqbal

casual said:


> An entire report made based on hearsay. Shameful.



proof that is hearsay?

so what are all the blue roofed buildings in Xingjing? Toy factories ?

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## casual

aziqbal said:


> then why has the UN Human Rights commissioner been refused to enter Xingjing over 27 times?
> 
> if you have nothing to hide why refuse UN to enter, the same UN which China is a permanent member of?


Because there's already a presumption of guilt and because the evidence China put forth have been ignored. Find a commissioner who is not prejudiced and reduce the scope to targeted sites first.

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## GumNaam

here we go again with the western tummy cramps...

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## casual

aziqbal said:


> proof that is hearsay?
> 
> so what are all the blue roofed buildings in Xingjing? Toy factories ?


Burden of proof is not with the accused but with the accuser.

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## Nan Yang

Uryhur Transitional Database EMBARRASED at the Uryhur Tribunal


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## aziqbal

casual said:


> Because there's already a presumption of guilt and because the evidence China put forth have been ignored. Find a commissioner who is not prejudiced and reduce the scope to targeted sites first.



like who someone from the CCP?

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## casual

aziqbal said:


> like who someone from the CCP?


No. Follow the principal of voir dire. Select someone trusted by all parties.

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## Char

denel said:


> China: Draconian repression of Muslims in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity
> 
> 
> Hundreds of thousands of Muslim minority men and women subjected to mass internment and torture Millions of Muslims subjected to systematized mass surveillance Muslim ethnic groups forced to abandon their religious traditions, cultural practices and local languages More than 50 former camp...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.amnesty.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEWS
> © Molly Crabapple
> 
> *SHARE*
> Facebook
> Twitter
> *China: Draconian repression of Muslims in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity*
> 10 June 2021, 16:00 UTC
> 
> *Hundreds of thousands of Muslim minority men and women subjected to mass internment and torture*
> *Millions of Muslims subjected to systematized mass surveillance*
> *Muslim ethnic groups forced to abandon their religious traditions, cultural practices and local languages*
> *More than 50 former camp detainees give harrowing new testimonies with detailed inside look at internment conditions and treatment*
> *Amnesty International campaign calls for closure of internment camps, with over 60 detailed casefiles on those thought to be currently detained*
> Uyghurs, Kazakhs and other predominantly Muslim ethnic minorities in China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region face systematic state-organized mass imprisonment, torture and persecution amounting to crimes against humanity, Amnesty International said as it launched a new report and campaign today.
> 
> In the 160-page report, _‘Like We Were Enemies in a War’: China’s Mass Internment, Torture, and Persecution of Muslims in Xinjiang_, Amnesty International’s Crisis Response team released dozens of new testimonies from former detainees detailing the extreme measures taken by Chinese authorities since 2017 to essentially root out the religious traditions, cultural practices and local languages of the region’s Muslim ethnic groups. Carried out under the guise of fighting “terrorism”, these crimes have targeted ethnic Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Hui, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks and Tajiks.
> 
> Chinese authorities have built one of the world’s most sophisticated surveillance systems and a vast network of hundreds of grim “transformation-through-education” centres – actually, internment camps – throughout Xinjiang. Torture and other ill-treatment is systematic in the camps and every aspect of daily life is regimented in an effort to forcibly instil a secular, homogeneous Chinese nation and Communist party ideals.
> 
> “The Chinese authorities have created a dystopian hellscape on a staggering scale in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region,” said Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General.
> 
> “Uyghurs, Kazakhs and other Muslim minorities face crimes against humanity and other serious human rights violations that threaten to erase their religious and cultural identities.
> 
> “It should shock the conscience of humanity that massive numbers of people have been subjected to brainwashing, torture and other degrading treatment in internment camps, while millions more live in fear amid a vast surveillance apparatus.”
> *Mass imprisonment*
> The report documents how, since early 2017, huge numbers of men and women from predominantly Muslim ethnic minorities in Xinjiang have been arbitrarily detained. They include hundreds of thousands who have been sent to prisons in addition to hundreds of thousands – perhaps even a million or more – who have been sent to internment camps.
> 
> All of the more than 50 former detainees Amnesty International interviewed were detained for what appears to be entirely lawful conduct, such as possessing a religious-themed picture or communicating with someone abroad. A government cadre who participated in mass arrests in late 2017 told the organization how police took people from their homes without warning and detained them without any due process.
> 
> Most survivors who spoke to Amnesty International were first interrogated at police stations, where they had their biometric and medical data recorded before being transferred to a camp. They were often interrogated in “tiger chairs” – steel chairs with affixed leg irons and handcuffs that restrain the body in painful positions. Beatings, sleep deprivation and overcrowding are rampant in the police stations, and detainees reported being hooded and shackled during their interrogation and transfer.
> Guards surround a large group of detainees in an internment camp in Xinjiang, China. © Molly Crabapple
> 
> From the moment they entered the prison-like internment camps, detainees’ lives were extraordinarily regimented. They had no privacy or autonomy, and they faced harsh punishments – sometimes collectively with their cellmates – for trivial disobedience. Internees were forbidden to speak freely to each other, and they were severely punished when they responded to prison guards or other officials in their native tongues instead of Mandarin. Every activity in the detainees’ daily routine was pre-ordained and their behaviour was constantly monitored and evaluated.
> 
> One woman who was detained for having WhatsApp on her phone said: “[Every day] you get up at 5am and have to make your bed, and it had to be perfect. Then there was a flag-raising ceremony and an ‘oath-taking’. Then you went to the canteen for breakfast. Then to the classroom. Then lunch. Then to the classroom. Then dinner. Then another class. Then bed. Every night two people had to be ‘on duty’ [monitoring the other cellmates] for two hours… There was not a minute left for yourself. You are exhausted.”
> 
> In the early weeks or months of internment, detainees are typically forced to either sit still or kneel in the same position in their cell, in complete silence, for most of their waking hours. Following this, they generally undergo forced “education”, where they are indoctrinated to disavow Islam, forgo using their language and other cultural practices, and study Mandarin Chinese language and Chinese Communist Party propaganda.
> 
> Other than being escorted under armed guard to and from canteens, classes or interrogation, detainees practically never leave their cells and rarely see sunlight or have outdoor access or exercise.
> *Systematic torture*
> Every former detainee Amnesty International interviewed suffered torture or other ill-treatment.
> This included the cumulative psychological effect of their daily dehumanization, as well as physical torture in the form of beatings, electric shocks, solitary confinement, deprivation of food, water and sleep, exposure to extreme cold, and the abusive use of restraints, including torture tools like tiger chairs. Some reported being restrained in a tiger chair for 24 hours or more.
> A detainee is beaten by internment camp guards while immobilized in a tiger chair. © Molly Crabapple
> 
> An older woman who was punished for defending her cellmate said she was taken to a small, dark, cold and windowless room where she had her hands and feet cuffed and was forced to sit on an iron chair for three days straight.
> 
> Two former detainees said they had been forced to wear heavy shackles – in one case for an entire year. Others described being shocked with electric batons or sprayed with pepper spray.
> 
> Some detainees reported being tortured multiple times, while others were forced to watch their cellmates being tortured. Amnesty International learned of one case where a detainee is believed to have died as a result of being restrained in a tiger chair, in front of his cellmates, for 72 hours, during which time he urinated and defecated on himself.
> *Surveillance state*
> Both inside and outside the camps, Xinjiang’s Muslims are among the most heavily surveilled populations in the world.
> For at least several months after being released from a camp, all former internees are under near-constant electronic and in-person surveillance, including invasive “homestays” by government cadres who monitor them and report “suspicious” behaviour. This could be peaceful religious practices, the use of unauthorized communications software (such as VPNs or WhatsApp), or purchasing an “unusual” amount of fuel or electricity.
> 
> Freedom of movement for released internees is also heavily restricted, with a massive number of security forces patrolling the streets and operating thousands of checkpoints, euphemistically known as “convenience police stations”.
> A security checkpoint outside of a train station in Urumqi, Xinjiang. Han Chinese people and members of predominantly Muslim ethnic groups go through separate checkpoints. Muslims are subjected to much more severe security checks. © Molly Crabapple*Religious persecution*
> Muslims are not free to practice their religion in Xinjiang. Dozens of Muslim men and women told Amnesty International the regional Chinese authorities showed extraordinary hostility towards their Islamic faith. Basic religious and cultural practices have been deemed “extremist” and used as grounds for detention.
> 
> As a result, most people have stopped praying or showing any outward signs of observing Islam. This extends to dress, grooming and even speech. “We couldn’t say ‘_as-salamu-alaykum_’ [a typical greeting in many Islamic cultures meaning “peace be upon you”] …anymore,” one man told Amnesty International. Qur’ans, prayer mats and other religious artifacts have effectively been banned.
> 
> Former Chinese government cadres told Amnesty International how they barged into people’s homes to confiscate religious items. “We told them to remove photos [of mosques] and put up [Chinese] flags,” one said.
> 
> Those interviewed by Amnesty International described how mosques, shrines, gravesites, and other religious and cultural sites have been systematically demolished or repurposed throughout Xinjiang.
> Chinese government officials removing religious and cultural artefacts from a home. © Molly Crabapple*Massive cover-up*
> The Chinese government has gone to extraordinary lengths to cover up its violations of international human rights law in Xinjiang. Authorities threaten, detain and mistreat anyone who speaks out.
> 
> The fate of hundreds of thousands of detainees is not known. Many may remain in detention in the camps. Others have been given long prison sentences – Chinese state data shows significant increases in prison sentences and satellite imagery shows significant new prison construction in Xinjiang since 2017. Others have been transferred to situations of forced or coerced labour.
> 
> “China must immediately dismantle the internment camps, release the people arbitrarily detained in them and in prisons, and end the systematic attacks against Muslims in Xinjiang,” said Agnès Callamard.
> 
> Mods - please do not insult our intelligence by closing this thread like others are being done or moved under CCP Bot controlled Uighur blanket thread where it is quietened.



The propaganda methods used during the Cold War didn’t work today, did they? Xinjiang is open to tourists, including foreigners. Now there are so many self-media, who can you fool?

How is Xinjiang now? People living in Xinjiang have the most say.

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## Nan Yang

Uyghur Transitional Database EMBARRASED at the Uyghur Tribunal

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## zectech

If the same Western trolls are lying to you about what is happening in Xinjiang in some fake "genocide" claims and "crimes against humanity"...






... those same Western trolls are lying to you about a lab leak.

Here are the sources of anti-China lies, same Western trolls:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399340294173196295

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## Vapnope

A Human right commission report or wikileaks cable can prove so many things.


----------



## zectech

trump, macron, modi, netanyahu are "outraged" about China's treatment of Muslims. If you did not fall for their lies to spread anti-Muslim sentiment of the past 20 years, yet fell for the Western lies to spread anti-China sentiment. It is the same lies repackaged.

This bioweapon attack was blamed on Muslims. Even blaspheming the name of God to get dumb Amerikkkans to hate Muslims.








This bioweapon was from Ft Detrick. The patsy "committed suicide".

Some "US government" agent(s) spread a bioweapon in the USA to blame Muslims. The problem was the bioweapon was traced to Ft Detrick.

To prevent this disaster from happening again, where a bioweapon is again released by the USA traced back to the US, the USA had to plant the bioweapon in the targeted country to blame.

The USA released a bioweapon to blame China to get hatred of the Chinese. The anthrax attack was to get hatred of Muslims.

So what does the USA do. The USA develops a bioweapon almost a decade ago, by weaponizing a Horseshoe bat virUS in the US (this happened). Then the USA planned to release that weaponized bioweapon on the world in the future to stop the rise of China. Implimenting the same strategy of the anthrax bioweapon false flag to start a war with Iraq, this time with China. Yet the USA learned from the anthrax attack, the US sent the research to China on this horseshoe bat virUS to frame the Chinese, so not only the USA has the weapon - the bioweapon... China was sent to weapon years ago, funding for the research paid in part by the USA.

US was forced to admit that the USA MEDIA LIED ABOUT THE ANTHRAX ATTACK "LINK TO MUSLIMS", the Anthrax attack was a false flag committed by American player(s), yet blamed some Ft Detrick scientist who "committed suicide" to deflect blame from Washington and the real culprits.



_*3. The Anthrax False Flag*_​​As it turns out, 9/11 may not prove to be the most long-lasting and world-changing false flag event to have taken place in the fall of 2001. Although largely forgotten today, the anthrax attacks that followed on the heels of “the day that changed everything” have had a profound effect in shaping public policy and setting the stage for the biosecurity state that is emerging today.​​The week after September 11, 2001, a series of letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to various media outlets and, later, to two US Senators, Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy, who had raised concerns about the Patriot Act which the Bush regime was attempting to rush through Congress. The anthrax-laced letters—which caused the shut down of Congress and lead to the emergency passage of the Patriot Act before legislators even had a chance to read the bill—would go on to kill five and injure 17 others.​​In those first chaotic days of the attack, ABC’s Brian Ross began reporting from his anonymous “well-placed” sources that the anthrax spores contained traces of bentonite, a “troubling chemical additive” that just happened to be a “trademark of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein’s biological weapons program.”​​


> *BRIAN ROSS:* Peter, from three well-placed but separate sources tonight ABC News has been told that initial tests on the anthrax sent to Senator Daschle have found a tell-tale chemical additive whose name means a lot to weapons experts. It is called bentonite. It’s possible other countries may be using it, too, but it is a trademark of Saddam Hussein’s biological weapons program.​_*SOURCE: ABC Evening News for Friday, Oct 26, 2001*_​


​Of course, this turned out to be a complete lie (a lie that Ross has never clarified or retracted to this day).​​As was later confirmed, the spores in question were actually derived from the Ames strain, a strain of anthrax whose virulence makes it the “gold standard” for research into the bacterium by the biological warriors at the United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases. Unsurprisingly, once the anthrax was found to have sourced from the US government’s own biological research labs and _not_ an Iraqi weapons program, coverage of the affair in the mainstream media became less frequent and less detailed.​​After years of floating the name of bioweapons expert Steven Hatfill as a “person of interest” in the investigation, the FBI pinned the blame on Bruce Ivins, a “lone wolf” who allegedly orchestrated the entire attack himself because of mental instability. Hatfill successfully sued the FBI for nearly $6 million for undue harassment and Ivins conveniently killed himself before ever being charged with any crime. In the end, not a single person was arrested or indicted for their participation in one of the highest profile attacks in American history.​​The anthrax false flag killed multiple birds with one stone:​​
It associated the terror attack of 9/11 with a subsequent bioterror attack that was quickly connected to Saddam Hussein and Iraq. That association was still strong in the mindsof many Americans (some who may still have erroneously blamed Iraq for the attack) during the build up to the Iraq War in 2002 and 2003.
As Whitney Webb points out in her exhaustive report on the event, the anthrax attack also saved Bioport, the crony-connected DoD contractor that supplied the US military with the highly controversial anthrax vaccine. Facing growing concerns about the safety and efficacy of its vaccine, Bioport faced financial ruin . . . until the anthrax attacks happened and demand for their questionable product skyrocketed. Later rebranding as Emergent Biosolutions, the company benefited from the largesse of the Gates-backed Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness, and, as Webb notes, the company “is now set to profit from the Coronavirus (Covid-19) crisis.”
The anthrax attack also gave an excuse for the creation of a wide-ranging legislative and institutional framework for implementing medical martial law in the event of a subsequent bioterrorist attack, including the wide-scale adoption of the Model State Emergency Health Powers Act authorizing forced quarantines and forced vaccinations in the wake of a declared health emergency.

The anthrax false flag also gave a gigantic shot in the arm to another major wing of the military-industrial complex: the “biodefense” sector. Before anthrax entered the public consciousness as a weapon of terror in the fall of 2001, bioweapons research had been sidelined and shrouded in secrecy. After the attacks, however, the US government—and, indeed, every government in the world—had a perfect excuse to vastly expand its biological weapons programs in the name of “biological security.” As Jonathan King, a professor of microbiology at MIT, explains:​​


> “[The] response to the anthrax attacks and the bioterrorism initiative has been to launch a nationwide, billion-dollar campaign to ‘defend us’ from unknown terrorists. But the character of this program is roughly as follows: You say, ‘Well, what would the terrorists come up with? What’s the nastiest, most dangerous, most difficult-to-diagnose, difficult-to-treat microorganisms that we can think of. Well, let’s go bring that organism into existence so that we can figure out how to defend against it.’ The fact of the matter is, it’s indistinguishable from an offensive program in which you would do the same thing.”​


And now, two decades later, that massive billion-dollar campaign made to “defend us” from the anthrax threat has led to the creation of a vast biosecurity infrastructure. From biological labs conducting gain-of-function research to government offices conducting bioterror “simulations” to legislation granting extraordinary powers to unelected health “authorities” in the wake of the next attack, the groundwork has been laid for the next stage of government-sponsored false flag terrorism.​​




Episode 388 – False Flags and the Dawn of Bioterrorism : The Corbett Report







www.corbettreport.com




Where in the past, the USA got the blame because the bioweapon was traced back to Ft Detrick. US taxpayers fund research of laying the blame of China. China in cooperating with the USA had the weapon placed in China for the USA to release this on China, not from a lab leak.









Covid was circulating in Italy in September 2019, new study shows


Coronavirus was circulating in Italy as early as September 2019, a new study has suggested, in a new piece of evidence that China was hiding the true timeline of the pandemic from the world.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Italy had cases before China, USA had cases before China. Chinese doctors who the media claims are heroes, tell the evidence that China caught their cases early, thwarting the out of China lie promoted by Washington.

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## master_13

anything heard from another person is second hand, show one picture of dead body first, show one picture of torture injuries first.

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## Enigma SIG

Lets do Kashmir first.

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1


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## Cheehg

Same old farts. There is no evidence. 6 or 7 people are not millions. Even though there are no names and locations of those 6 or 7.


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## Globenim

New Report Details Firsthand Accounts Of Torture From Uyghur Muslims In China


https://www.npr.org/2021/06/10/1005263835/new-report-details-firsthand-accounts-of-torture-from-uyghur-muslims-in-china?t=1623440302302 New Report Details Firsthand Accounts Of Torture From Uyghur Muslims In China Facebook Twitter Flipboard Email June 10, 20215:01 PM ET Heard on All Things...



defence.pk












China's treatment of Uighurs 'like a dystopian hellscape'


China is creating a "dystopian hellscape" in its treatment of the Uighurs and other Muslim minorities, a leading human rights group warns. In a report published today, Amnesty International says Chinese authorities are committing crimes against humanity in Xinjiang, the region that is home to...



defence.pk





Same old NSA bots spamming the same USA state propaganda fake reports under different fake US state propaganda outlet names on different accounts
Same old anti-China disinformation campaign
Same old CIA cutout fake "activist group"
Same old circular citations of fabrications by U.S. state propaganda mouthpieces "detailing" absolutely nothing
Same old projection of U.S crimes against humanity and U.S. terrorism against Muslim and other minorities.

Same old rolleyes 🙄

Reactions: Like Like:
4


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## Globenim

Amnesty - China Draconian repression of muslims-xinjiang amounts to crimes against Humanity


https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/06/china-draconian-repression-of-muslims-in-xinjiang-amounts-to-crimes-against-humanity/ NEWS © Molly Crabapple SHARE Facebook Twitter China: Draconian repression of Muslims in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity 10 June 2021, 16:00 UTC...



defence.pk












China's treatment of Uighurs 'like a dystopian hellscape'


China is creating a "dystopian hellscape" in its treatment of the Uighurs and other Muslim minorities, a leading human rights group warns. In a report published today, Amnesty International says Chinese authorities are committing crimes against humanity in Xinjiang, the region that is home to...



defence.pk





Same old NSA bots spamming the same intelligence insulting USA state propaganda fake reports under different fake US state propaganda outlet names on different accounts
Same old anti-China disinformation campaign
Same old CIA cutout fake "activist group" "leading" absolutely nothing
Same old staged CIA cutout hired fake "activist" picture
Same old uncontroversial pictures with fake and factually false descriptions
Same old circular citations of fabrications by U.S. state propaganda mouthpieces "detailing" absolutely nothing
Same old projection of U.S crimes against humanity and U.S. terrorism against Muslim and other minorities.

Same old rolleyes 🙄

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## hualushui



Reactions: Like Like:
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## hualushui




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## denel

Char said:


> The propaganda methods used during the Cold War didn’t work today, did they? Xinjiang is open to tourists, including foreigners. Now there are so many self-media, who can you fool?
> 
> How is Xinjiang now? People living in Xinjiang have the most say.



Sorry pal - watch the videos before i posted; any one visiting xinjiang is being monitored by police, videos are getting erased on demand etc. 

Cold war - that was long back; this is now present. Your communist party has no morales or conscience on what it does to its people.


casual said:


> An entire report made based on hearsay. Shameful.


really.. same nanjing massacre was also a lie; mao's collusion with japanese a lie; the millions that mao induced famine was a lie, what you did in tibet a lie, now what you are doing in xinjiang a lie, not to mention - covid was not from china... the biggest lie of all.

So,, cool it dude.. too much of winnie pooh xi wine is no good; gray matter is dead.

You people are so desperate for bonus cheques from winnie to support his lies.


hualushui said:


> View attachment 752772
> 
> View attachment 752773


Go to Xinhua or KCNA and float these glorious ideals there.

hey i told you to take propaganda 101 Literature class at Radio Pyongyang.. They do a better job that you and dont ask for any pay liek you do to be posting here.


zectech said:


> trump, macron, modi, netanyahu are "outraged" about China's treatment of Muslims. If you did not fall for their lies to spread anti-Muslim sentiment of the past 20 years, yet fell for the Western lies to spread anti-China sentiment. It is the same lies repackaged.
> 
> This bioweapon attack was blamed on Muslims. Even blaspheming the name of God to get dumb Amerikkkans to hate Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This bioweapon was from Ft Detrick. The patsy "committed suicide".
> 
> Some "US government" agent(s) spread a bioweapon in the USA to blame Muslims. The problem was the bioweapon was traced to Ft Detrick.
> 
> To prevent this disaster from happening again, where a bioweapon is again released by the USA traced back to the US, the USA had to plant the bioweapon in the targeted country to blame.
> 
> The USA released a bioweapon to blame China to get hatred of the Chinese. The anthrax attack was to get hatred of Muslims.
> 
> So what does the USA do. The USA develops a bioweapon almost a decade ago, by weaponizing a Horseshoe bat virUS in the US (this happened). Then the USA planned to release that weaponized bioweapon on the world in the future to stop the rise of China. Implimenting the same strategy of the anthrax bioweapon false flag to start a war with Iraq, this time with China. Yet the USA learned from the anthrax attack, the US sent the research to China on this horseshoe bat virUS to frame the Chinese, so not only the USA has the weapon - the bioweapon... China was sent to weapon years ago, funding for the research paid in part by the USA.
> 
> US was forced to admit that the USA MEDIA LIED ABOUT THE ANTHRAX ATTACK "LINK TO MUSLIMS", the Anthrax attack was a false flag committed by American player(s), yet blamed some Ft Detrick scientist who "committed suicide" to deflect blame from Washington and the real culprits.
> 
> 
> 
> _*3. The Anthrax False Flag*_​​As it turns out, 9/11 may not prove to be the most long-lasting and world-changing false flag event to have taken place in the fall of 2001. Although largely forgotten today, the anthrax attacks that followed on the heels of “the day that changed everything” have had a profound effect in shaping public policy and setting the stage for the biosecurity state that is emerging today.​​The week after September 11, 2001, a series of letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to various media outlets and, later, to two US Senators, Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy, who had raised concerns about the Patriot Act which the Bush regime was attempting to rush through Congress. The anthrax-laced letters—which caused the shut down of Congress and lead to the emergency passage of the Patriot Act before legislators even had a chance to read the bill—would go on to kill five and injure 17 others.​​In those first chaotic days of the attack, ABC’s Brian Ross began reporting from his anonymous “well-placed” sources that the anthrax spores contained traces of bentonite, a “troubling chemical additive” that just happened to be a “trademark of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein’s biological weapons program.”​​
> ​Of course, this turned out to be a complete lie (a lie that Ross has never clarified or retracted to this day).​​As was later confirmed, the spores in question were actually derived from the Ames strain, a strain of anthrax whose virulence makes it the “gold standard” for research into the bacterium by the biological warriors at the United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases. Unsurprisingly, once the anthrax was found to have sourced from the US government’s own biological research labs and _not_ an Iraqi weapons program, coverage of the affair in the mainstream media became less frequent and less detailed.​​After years of floating the name of bioweapons expert Steven Hatfill as a “person of interest” in the investigation, the FBI pinned the blame on Bruce Ivins, a “lone wolf” who allegedly orchestrated the entire attack himself because of mental instability. Hatfill successfully sued the FBI for nearly $6 million for undue harassment and Ivins conveniently killed himself before ever being charged with any crime. In the end, not a single person was arrested or indicted for their participation in one of the highest profile attacks in American history.​​The anthrax false flag killed multiple birds with one stone:​​
> It associated the terror attack of 9/11 with a subsequent bioterror attack that was quickly connected to Saddam Hussein and Iraq. That association was still strong in the mindsof many Americans (some who may still have erroneously blamed Iraq for the attack) during the build up to the Iraq War in 2002 and 2003.
> As Whitney Webb points out in her exhaustive report on the event, the anthrax attack also saved Bioport, the crony-connected DoD contractor that supplied the US military with the highly controversial anthrax vaccine. Facing growing concerns about the safety and efficacy of its vaccine, Bioport faced financial ruin . . . until the anthrax attacks happened and demand for their questionable product skyrocketed. Later rebranding as Emergent Biosolutions, the company benefited from the largesse of the Gates-backed Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness, and, as Webb notes, the company “is now set to profit from the Coronavirus (Covid-19) crisis.”
> The anthrax attack also gave an excuse for the creation of a wide-ranging legislative and institutional framework for implementing medical martial law in the event of a subsequent bioterrorist attack, including the wide-scale adoption of the Model State Emergency Health Powers Act authorizing forced quarantines and forced vaccinations in the wake of a declared health emergency.
> 
> The anthrax false flag also gave a gigantic shot in the arm to another major wing of the military-industrial complex: the “biodefense” sector. Before anthrax entered the public consciousness as a weapon of terror in the fall of 2001, bioweapons research had been sidelined and shrouded in secrecy. After the attacks, however, the US government—and, indeed, every government in the world—had a perfect excuse to vastly expand its biological weapons programs in the name of “biological security.” As Jonathan King, a professor of microbiology at MIT, explains:​​
> And now, two decades later, that massive billion-dollar campaign made to “defend us” from the anthrax threat has led to the creation of a vast biosecurity infrastructure. From biological labs conducting gain-of-function research to government offices conducting bioterror “simulations” to legislation granting extraordinary powers to unelected health “authorities” in the wake of the next attack, the groundwork has been laid for the next stage of government-sponsored false flag terrorism.​​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Episode 388 – False Flags and the Dawn of Bioterrorism : The Corbett Report
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.corbettreport.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where in the past, the USA got the blame because the bioweapon was traced back to Ft Detrick. US taxpayers fund research of laying the blame of China. China in cooperating with the USA had the weapon placed in China for the USA to release this on China, not from a lab leak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Covid was circulating in Italy in September 2019, new study shows
> 
> 
> Coronavirus was circulating in Italy as early as September 2019, a new study has suggested, in a new piece of evidence that China was hiding the true timeline of the pandemic from the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Italy had cases before China, USA had cases before China. Chinese doctors who the media claims are heroes, tell the evidence that China caught their cases early, thwarting the out of China lie promoted by Washington.


poooh.... 

Please take it outside this thread..... you are again about whataboutsim and suppressing the narrative on this thread. 

Post reported for trolling


Globenim said:


> New Report Details Firsthand Accounts Of Torture From Uyghur Muslims In China
> 
> 
> https://www.npr.org/2021/06/10/1005263835/new-report-details-firsthand-accounts-of-torture-from-uyghur-muslims-in-china?t=1623440302302 New Report Details Firsthand Accounts Of Torture From Uyghur Muslims In China Facebook Twitter Flipboard Email June 10, 20215:01 PM ET Heard on All Things...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's treatment of Uighurs 'like a dystopian hellscape'
> 
> 
> China is creating a "dystopian hellscape" in its treatment of the Uighurs and other Muslim minorities, a leading human rights group warns. In a report published today, Amnesty International says Chinese authorities are committing crimes against humanity in Xinjiang, the region that is home to...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old NSA bots spamming the same USA state propaganda fake reports under different fake US state propaganda outlet names on different accounts
> Same old anti-China disinformation campaign
> Same old CIA cutout fake "activist group"
> Same old circular citations of fabrications by U.S. state propaganda mouthpieces "detailing" absolutely nothing
> Same old projection of U.S crimes against humanity and U.S. terrorism against Muslim and other minorities.
> 
> Same old rolleyes 🙄


stop trolling... too much winne pooh xi wine is destroying your gray matter.

lord man you guys are so desperate for bonus from master xi to sell every 2c of lies.


----------



## denel

Nan Yang said:


> Uyghur Transitional Database EMBARRASED at the Uyghur Tribunal


i am amazed you have to balls to put pathetic paid videos.

you are really desperate for a small bonus.

Let me ask you - how much are you folks getting paid to be doing this work?

Let me match or even volunteer to give you 50% more that your present Xi master's payroll.

First prove you are not a CCP bot with your real Wechat id; then we can discuss pay terms.


----------



## JackFell

denel said:


> i am amazed you have to balls to put pathetic paid videos.
> 
> you are really desperate for a small bonus.
> 
> Let me ask you - how much are you folks getting paid to be doing this work?
> 
> Let me match or even volunteer to give you 50% more that your present Xi master's payroll.
> 
> First prove you are not a CCP bot with your real Wechat id; then we can discuss pay terms.


Chinese are extremely bad at counter-propaganda and should realise the best option is just to ignore these accusations instead of obsessing over them. CGTN is always talking about Uighurs as if they are over-compensating.

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## denel

JackFell said:


> Chinese are extremely bad at counter-propaganda and should realise the best option is just to ignore these accusations instead of obsessing over them. CGTN is always talking about Uighurs as if they are over-compensating.


yes - really pathetic indeed... you can see how stupid and baseless/kiss *** their reporting is to know this is potempken village scenario.

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## faithfulguy

denel said:


> yes - really pathetic indeed... you can see how stupid and baseless/kiss *** their reporting is to know this is potempken village scenario.



check out this article by Max Blumenthal to find the truth. Max is one of the most respected journalist and one of the few legitimate ones. The other legitimate ones are Chris Hedges, Aaron Mate, Glenn Greenwald and Ben Norton.There are really few legitimate ones besides these ones. 









Xinjiang shakedown: US anti-China lobby cashed in on 'forced labor' campaign that cost Uyghur workers their jobs - The Grayzone


A campaign against supposed forced labor in Xinjiang has forced Uyghur workers out of their jobs while extracting a handsome payout from a US apparel company to Uyghur exile groups lobbying against China. A self-described “worker rights organization” in Washington, DC called the Worker Rights...




thegrayzone.com

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## CAPRICORN-88

*Here are the evidences of genocide by Chynada. *

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## CAPRICORN-88

_If they can make the dead talk, maybe they will revealed whether they were raped or tortured before they were killed by the Chynadian. _


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## Nan Yang

Just another Video. Enjoy.

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## Vanguard One

*Megha Rajagopalan's Xinjiang series won the Pulitzer Prize in the International Reporting category. Minutes after she won, Ms Rajagopalan said she wasn't even watching the ceremony live because she wasn't expecting to win. She only found out when she received a call.*

*




*
Megha Rajagopalan's Xinjiang series won the Pulitzer Prize in the International Reporting category 

*New York: *
Megha Rajagopalan, an Indian-origin journalist, along with two contributors has won the Pulitzer Prize for innovative investigative reports that exposed a vast infrastructure of prisons and mass internment camps secretly built by China for detaining hundreds of thousands of Muslims in its restive Xinjiang region.

Ms Rajagopalan from BuzzFeed News is among two Indian-origin journalists who won the US's top journalism award on Friday.

Tampa Bay Times'' Neil Bedi won for local reporting. Neil Bedi along with Kathleen McGrory has been awarded the prize for the series exposing a Sheriff's Office initiative that used computer modelling to identify people believed to be future crime suspects. About 1,000 people were monitored under the programme, including children.

Neil Bedi is an investigative reporter for the Tampa Bay Times.

"What Kathleen and Neil unearthed in Pasco County has had a profound impact on the community," said Mark Katches, Times executive editor. "This is what the best investigative journalism can do and why it is so essential."

Ms Rajagopalan's Xinjiang series won the Pulitzer Prize in the International Reporting category.

In 2017, not long after China began to detain thousands of Muslims in Xinjiang, Rajagopalan was the first to visit an internment camp - at a time when China denied that such places existed, BuzzFeed News said.

"In response, the government tried to silence her, revoking her visa and ejecting her from the country," BuzzFeed News wrote in its entry for the prize.

"It would go on to cut off access to the entire region for most Westerners and stymie journalists. The release of basic facts about detainees slowed to a trickle."

Working from London, and refusing to be silenced, Ms Rajagopalan partnered with two contributors, Alison Killing, a licensed architect who specialises in forensic analysis of architecture and satellite images of buildings, and Christo Buschek, a programmer who builds tools tailored for data journalists.

"The blazing Xinjiang stories shine desperately needed light on one of the worst human rights abuses of our time," said Mark Schoofs, editor-in-chief of BuzzFeed News.

Minutes after she won, Ms Rajagopalan told BuzzFeed News she wasn't even watching the ceremony live because she wasn't expecting to win. She only found out when Mr Schoofs called to congratulate her on the victory.

"I'm in complete shock, I did not expect this," Ms Rajagopalan said over the phone from London.

She said she was deeply grateful to the teams of people who worked with her on this including her collaborators, Killing and Buschek, her editor Alex Campbell, BuzzFeed News'' public relations team, and the organisations that funded their work, including the Pulitzer Center.

Ms Rajagopalan also acknowledged the courage of the sources who spoke to them despite the risk and threat of retaliation against them and their families.

"I'm so grateful they stood up and were willing to talk to us," she said. "It takes so much unbelievable courage to do that."

The three of them set out to analyse thousands of satellite images of the Xinjiang region, an area bigger than Alaska, to try to answer a simple question: Where were Chinese officials detaining as many as 1 million Uyghurs, Kazakhs, and other Muslim minorities?

For months, the trio compared censored Chinese images with uncensored mapping software. They began with an enormous dataset of 50,000 locations.

Buschek built a custom tool to sort through those images. Then, "the team had to go through thousands of images one by one, verifying many of the sites against other available evidence," BuzzFeed News wrote in its prize entry.

They ultimately identified more than 260 structures that appeared to be fortified detention camps. Some of the sites were capable of holding more than 10,000 people and many contained factories where prisoners were forced into labour.

The groundbreaking technological reporting was also accompanied by extensive old-fashioned "shoe leather" journalism.

Barred from China, Ms Rajagopalan instead travelled to its neighbour Kazakhstan, where many Chinese Muslims have sought refuge.

There, Ms Rajagopalan located more than two dozen people who had been prisoners in the Xinjiang camps, winning their trust and convincing them to share their nightmarish accounts with the world.

Pulitzer prizes are awarded yearly in twenty-one categories. In twenty of the categories, each winner receives a certificate and a USD 15,000 cash award. The winner in the public service category is awarded a gold medal. 









Indian-Origin Journalist Wins Pulitzer Prize For Exposing China's Detention Camps For Muslims


Megha Rajagopalan, an Indian-origin journalist, won the Pulitzer Prize for innovative investigative reports that exposed a vast infrastructure of prisons and camps secretly built by China for detaining hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Xinjiang.




www.ndtv.com

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## hualushui



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

@waz @LeGenD @PakSword @Foxtrot Alpha

His doing it again after having another thread locked from him in less than 24 hours ago for the same reasons.... I have reported this. His just spamming instead of using the mega-thread breaching the rules on purpose despite others informing him about it... I even think he has multiple accounts..

Here is the mega-thread and everyone who posts outside of it is getting a ban.. Feel free to post in there




__





ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.


Denel posted an article about a serious subject and the abuse look at it https://amp.smh.com.au/national/nsw/man-accused-of-kissing-toddler-on-lips-cited-cultural-differences-court-told-20200120-p53t3l.html Your proving his point you do realise that



defence.pk

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## denel

Nan Yang said:


> Just another Video. Enjoy.


Please keep your paid youtubers to yourself and enjoy it at your canteen meals.

Useless and fake paid posts. Same people you will pay and they will say anything for money.

Shows the lowest level that CCP Winnie XI Pooh is getting down to desperation.


----------



## aziqbal

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Here are the evidences of genocide by Chynada. *



no one is denying what Western countries have done and what crimes they have committed 

but by posting this you are basically guilty without acceptance 

when they interview Israeli foreign minister about the Gaza deaths they always say yeah well look what the Assad has done in Syria look what Saddam did in Iraq 

a guilty person has this response and you just did exactly that

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## xyx007

If one is to believe Robert Vannrox, an American engineer and scientist who has previously worked closely with the U.S. government and military, the incessant propaganda campaign on Xinjiang is borne out of Washington's fear of a rising China and part of a larger strategic plan to destabilize a region that is key to the success of Beijing's Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

read this article 









CGTN Interview: Is the West's Xinjiang campaign driven by U.S. plans to derail China's BRI?


Robert Vannrox, an American engineer and scientist who has previously worked closely with the U.S. government and military, tells CGTN Digital's international editor Abhishek G Bhaya that Xinjiang's status as the gateway for the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) has turned the autonomous region...




news.cgtn.com


----------



## Bossman

Vanguard One said:


> *Megha Rajagopalan's Xinjiang series won the Pulitzer Prize in the International Reporting category. Minutes after she won, Ms Rajagopalan said she wasn't even watching the ceremony live because she wasn't expecting to win. She only found out when she received a call.*
> 
> *
> View attachment 752966
> *
> Megha Rajagopalan's Xinjiang series won the Pulitzer Prize in the International Reporting category
> 
> *New York: *
> Megha Rajagopalan, an Indian-origin journalist, along with two contributors has won the Pulitzer Prize for innovative investigative reports that exposed a vast infrastructure of prisons and mass internment camps secretly built by China for detaining hundreds of thousands of Muslims in its restive Xinjiang region.
> 
> Ms Rajagopalan from BuzzFeed News is among two Indian-origin journalists who won the US's top journalism award on Friday.
> 
> Tampa Bay Times'' Neil Bedi won for local reporting. Neil Bedi along with Kathleen McGrory has been awarded the prize for the series exposing a Sheriff's Office initiative that used computer modelling to identify people believed to be future crime suspects. About 1,000 people were monitored under the programme, including children.
> 
> Neil Bedi is an investigative reporter for the Tampa Bay Times.
> 
> "What Kathleen and Neil unearthed in Pasco County has had a profound impact on the community," said Mark Katches, Times executive editor. "This is what the best investigative journalism can do and why it is so essential."
> 
> Ms Rajagopalan's Xinjiang series won the Pulitzer Prize in the International Reporting category.
> 
> In 2017, not long after China began to detain thousands of Muslims in Xinjiang, Rajagopalan was the first to visit an internment camp - at a time when China denied that such places existed, BuzzFeed News said.
> 
> "In response, the government tried to silence her, revoking her visa and ejecting her from the country," BuzzFeed News wrote in its entry for the prize.
> 
> "It would go on to cut off access to the entire region for most Westerners and stymie journalists. The release of basic facts about detainees slowed to a trickle."
> 
> Working from London, and refusing to be silenced, Ms Rajagopalan partnered with two contributors, Alison Killing, a licensed architect who specialises in forensic analysis of architecture and satellite images of buildings, and Christo Buschek, a programmer who builds tools tailored for data journalists.
> 
> "The blazing Xinjiang stories shine desperately needed light on one of the worst human rights abuses of our time," said Mark Schoofs, editor-in-chief of BuzzFeed News.
> 
> Minutes after she won, Ms Rajagopalan told BuzzFeed News she wasn't even watching the ceremony live because she wasn't expecting to win. She only found out when Mr Schoofs called to congratulate her on the victory.
> 
> "I'm in complete shock, I did not expect this," Ms Rajagopalan said over the phone from London.
> 
> She said she was deeply grateful to the teams of people who worked with her on this including her collaborators, Killing and Buschek, her editor Alex Campbell, BuzzFeed News'' public relations team, and the organisations that funded their work, including the Pulitzer Center.
> 
> Ms Rajagopalan also acknowledged the courage of the sources who spoke to them despite the risk and threat of retaliation against them and their families.
> 
> "I'm so grateful they stood up and were willing to talk to us," she said. "It takes so much unbelievable courage to do that."
> 
> The three of them set out to analyse thousands of satellite images of the Xinjiang region, an area bigger than Alaska, to try to answer a simple question: Where were Chinese officials detaining as many as 1 million Uyghurs, Kazakhs, and other Muslim minorities?
> 
> For months, the trio compared censored Chinese images with uncensored mapping software. They began with an enormous dataset of 50,000 locations.
> 
> Buschek built a custom tool to sort through those images. Then, "the team had to go through thousands of images one by one, verifying many of the sites against other available evidence," BuzzFeed News wrote in its prize entry.
> 
> They ultimately identified more than 260 structures that appeared to be fortified detention camps. Some of the sites were capable of holding more than 10,000 people and many contained factories where prisoners were forced into labour.
> 
> The groundbreaking technological reporting was also accompanied by extensive old-fashioned "shoe leather" journalism.
> 
> Barred from China, Ms Rajagopalan instead travelled to its neighbour Kazakhstan, where many Chinese Muslims have sought refuge.
> 
> There, Ms Rajagopalan located more than two dozen people who had been prisoners in the Xinjiang camps, winning their trust and convincing them to share their nightmarish accounts with the world.
> 
> Pulitzer prizes are awarded yearly in twenty-one categories. In twenty of the categories, each winner receives a certificate and a USD 15,000 cash award. The winner in the public service category is awarded a gold medal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian-Origin Journalist Wins Pulitzer Prize For Exposing China's Detention Camps For Muslims
> 
> 
> Megha Rajagopalan, an Indian-origin journalist, won the Pulitzer Prize for innovative investigative reports that exposed a vast infrastructure of prisons and camps secretly built by China for detaining hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Xinjiang.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ndtv.com


Serve thy masters and get rewarded!


----------



## StraightEdge

Nan Yang said:


> Uyghur Transitional Database EMBARRASED at the Uyghur Tribunal



I have never seen more embarrassing presentation in my life. Holy fecking shit, that's just next level of incompetence and propaganda. 

Watch it for 10 mins starting from 3:04:00 mark, it's more than 9 hours long.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Globenim

Nan Yang said:


> Uyghur Transitional Database EMBARRASED at the Uyghur Tribunal


U.S. paid fake activist:_ We welcome our fake witnesses for out fake trial in our fake tribunal we created out of U.S. and U.K. paid fake activists_
U.S. paid fake activist: _China is evil!_
U.K. paid fake journalist: _Interesting! Can you tell us where you heard that?_
U.S. paid fake activist: _On U.S. controlled social media_
U.K. paid fake journalist: _Interesting! Can you tell you tell us how you confirmed its real?_
U.S. paid fake activist: _We asked our own paid fake activist if its real_
World: _lol_
NSA bots on PDF: _YOU ARE PAID BY CHINA TO LAUGH AT THIS! DELETE THIS!_

These genocidal terror regimes have really lost their edge with their cringe propaganda against China.
😂


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## Nan Yang

StraightEdge said:


> I have never seen more embarrassing presentation in my life. Holy fecking shit, that's just next level of incompetence and propaganda.
> 
> Watch it for 10 mins starting from 3:04:00 mark, it's more than 9 hours long.


Gosh.  I am speechless. It is so embarrassing it's was difficult to watch but I did watch for for a whole 10mins from the 3hr point.


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## CAPRICORN-88

aziqbal said:


> no one is denying what Western countries have done and what crimes they have committed
> 
> but by posting this you are basically guilty without acceptance
> 
> when they interview Israeli foreign minister about the Gaza deaths they always say yeah well look what the Assad has done in Syria look what Saddam did in Iraq
> 
> a guilty person has this response and you just did exactly that



   

_Well if responding to anti-Chinese trolls who have busily wasting their lifes posting unsubstantiated lies fabricated by the US Propaganda Machine or those they sponsored e.g. ASPI is an indication of my guilt so be it. 
Your mindset is already fixed.
The question. What is in the video that triggers your inner fear? The truth! 

But if one step outside then one will discovered that they still have a lot to learn. 

Neither *Truth nor Honor is a principle of those of USA nor its blinded followers today. *

While all these are happening, the trolls completely skipped the news of real genocides that were committed in Canada and elsewhere and are now slowly exposed. 

Burying and concealing real evidences of crimes and genocides that existed in the West do not lend any credence to their allegations of slaveries and genocides in Xinjiang as far as logic go. 

*Showing a picture of a real prison in Xinjiang and then presenting its as evidence of concentration camp in all its video by BBC is totally dishonest.*_


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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## hualushui

denel said:


> Firsthand Accounts


Firsthand Accounts = NO photo， NO video


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## denel

hualushui said:


> Firsthand Accounts = NO photo， NO video


sure - why dont you f.. give us independent monitors access to your concentration camps.

next, also give us access to your surveillance and torture videos.

wait - while we are at it; let us establish Truth and Reconciliation Commission for your glorious Xi/Mao wine toting brigades genocide from the 60's, cultural revolution, great leap forward into vaccuum, political rehab, tibet, xinjiang. 

Let people come forward. LEt your cadres feel the power of the people - they will get buried into the hell holes they created for rest. Your dodo brain govt uses fear, torture to keep people in tow. So, you can keep quiet and go back to your digestion of Winnie Xi Pooh revised edition of red book to seek divinity.

Problem - you are so brainwashed in Winnie Xi Pooh wine that you have lost all sense of reality.

So much desperation for bonus payments. I asked before, can you tell us - how much are you fellows getting paid for posting on this forum to keep CCP attrocities chaste. I am willing to give you a 50% bonus - if you can prove with your WeChat id.

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## rent4country

This is *Huge news* that *all members* of the G7 is also calling for...

*G7 calls for new study into origins of Covid and voices concern on China*








G7 calls for new study into origins of Covid and voices concern on China | CNN Politics


World leaders attending the Group of Seven summit on Sunday issued a call for a new study into the origins of Covid-19, including in China, after an initial report was deemed lacking because Beijing had refused to cooperate.




www.cnn.com


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## denel

hualushui said:


> I suspect that you are not your mother’s son. You should ask me to investigate and send me the DNA information of you and your mother.


You have been reported. You have crossed the line by getting to my mother. You dick head, i will put you into the ground for what you are writing. I am not a uighur who will be put into silence.

This is a classic paid ccp bot tactic to get under your skin and close the thread down when you know you have nothing to counter against. Get personal. You are so desperate to get to this level - may be you get 25c more for such words.

Pity.... you and your kind... no life in the gutter you come from. Come to my place in person - I willl give you a good drubbing for what you have written; shows the gutter covid infested dung hole you come from.

@waz - in many parts of the world insulting my mother, i swear I will have this clown's yellow skin and bury him alive.


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## PeaceGen

the only way China can prove it's not engaging in any of the mentioned crimes against humanity, is for them to allow international press into *ALL* of their detention / re-education / work / prison camps.

failure to do so will probably, and with my full blessing, lead to sanctions, boycotts and severe reputation-damage eventually.

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## denel

PeaceGen said:


> the only way China can prove it's not engaging in any of the mentioned crimes against humanity, is for them to allow international press into *ALL* of their detention / re-education / work / prison camps.
> 
> failure to do so will probably, and with my full blessing, lead to sanctions, boycotts and severe reputation-damage eventually.




This is truly what is needed. Open and independent outside these western/eastern setup. We have a lot of experience with this work. Our judicial people have championed this work - it has lead to the ire of Isreal as well as Sri-Lanka.

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## PeaceGen

denel said:


> This is truly what is needed. Open and independent outside these western/eastern setup. We have a lot of experience with this work. Our judicial people have championed this work - it has lead to the ire of Isreal as well as Sri-Lanka.



South-Africa would bring a large measure of independence to such a review.
Still, i'd like China open the doors of it's prisons, re-education camps and labor camps/facilities *entirely* to *any* group that requests access, at any time. The international crimes tribunal in The Hague for instance.
Anything less than that would mean they are able to continue the practices of which they are accused, which will most likely lead to serious sanctions and boycotts of Chinese goods.

Chinese tend to think the rest of the world is unable or unwilling to produce their own goods.
But the trend over here has already shifted towards local production and local consumption of a now rapidly growing number of types of (essential) consumer goods.


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## master_13

"First hand", why doesn't this person show his/her torture injuries? Why can't US media just even take a photo of the "torture injuries" from the person they interviewed?


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## PeaceGen

master_13 said:


> "First hand", why doesn't this person show his/her torture injuries? Why can't US media just even take a photo of the "torture injuries" from the person they interviewed?


scars fade.
and there are plenty of torture methods that don't even leave scars.
waterboarding
stress positions
sleep deprivation
etc
etc
etc


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## denel

PeaceGen said:


> South-Africa would bring a large measure of independence to such a review.
> Still, i'd like China open the doors of it's prisons, re-education camps and labor camps/facilities *entirely* to *any* group that requests access, at any time. The international crimes tribunal in The Hague for instance.
> Anything less than that would mean they are able to continue the practices of which they are accused, which will most likely lead to serious sanctions and boycotts of Chinese goods.
> 
> Chinese tend to think the rest of the world is unable or unwilling to produce their own goods.
> But the trend over here has already shifted towards local production and local consumption of a now rapidly growing number of types of (essential) consumer goods.


we are seeing the same here. supply chains have been devastated. Further, chinese started to dump their textiles which decimated our local industries. Result, most of the production post - covid to move local regional areas e.g. swaziland.


PeaceGen said:


> scars fade.
> and there are plenty of torture methods that don't even leave scars.
> waterboarding
> stress positions
> sleep deprivation
> etc
> etc
> etc


you forget the commies favourite tactic - 'we know your family, you surely dont want harm to come to them'.
they will disappear and held as collatoral.


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## striver44



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## master_13

PeaceGen said:


> scars fade.
> and there are plenty of torture methods that don't even leave scars.
> waterboarding
> stress positions
> sleep deprivation
> etc
> etc
> etc



so again, there's no evidence. Just like claiming Chinese "genocide", but US to date can't show one single dead person attributable to the so called "genocide".


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## PeaceGen

master_13 said:


> so again, there's no evidence. Just like claiming Chinese "genocide", but US to date can't show one single dead person attributable to the so called "genocide".


mr ostrich, there are witness accounts collected by Amnesty International now.
and like the suspicions about possible WMDs in Iraq was Saddam's responsibility to *disprove*, and like Iran and North-Korea have the responsibility to prove their ongoing innocence when it comes to nuclear weapons development, China bears the burden of proving it's own innocence regarding the claims of crimes against humanity and ethnicities in China.

Chinese re-education, labor and prison camps are notoriously secretive and hard to get cameras into.

the crimes against humanity and ethnicities that China is accused of are so horrendous that China has to prove itself innocent of said charges.

the only way to do *that*, is to allow any camera team from anywhere at all times full access to all of China's re-education, labor and prison camps.

failure to do so will surely lead to increasingly stiff boycotts and sanctions getting placed on China by the rest of the world..


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## aziqbal

*Activists Praise UK 'People's Tribunal' on China's Alleged Uyghur Abuse *
By Asim Kashgarian
June 14, 2021 06:26 PM




Witness Qelbinur Sidik, left on stage and left on screen above, give an evidential statement to the Panel of the independent Uyghur Tribunal during the first session of the hearings in London, June 4, 2021.
WASHINGTON - Human rights activists and Uyghur experts have welcomed a "people's tribunal" initiated in London last week to probe whether China's alleged crimes against the Uyghurs amount to genocide, stressing the need for more practical action from the international community.
A nine-member panel, made up mostly of lawyers and academics and chaired by prominent lawyer Geoffrey Nice, held its first set of hearings in the "Uyghur Tribunal" June 4 to 7 to investigate allegations of China's mistreatment of the Uyghurs in Xinjiang.



Chair of the panel Geoffrey Nice gives the opening address on the first day of hearings at the "Uyghur Tribunal", a panel of UK-based lawyers and rights experts investigating alleged abuses against Uyghurs in China, in London on June 4, 2021.
China, which denies mistreating Uyghurs, scoffed at the panel.
According to Luke de Pulford, the U.K.-based human rights campaigner and founder of Coalition for Genocide Response, the tribunal is not endorsed by the British government but could prompt more direct action from authorities.
"We need to pick a side. Will we defend our values or sell out to China? We can't do both," Pulford told VOA.
In April, British lawmakers unanimously declared the Uyghur crackdown a genocide, thereby joining the United States, Canada, Netherlands and Lithuania in condemning China's actions.
However, the government this week reportedly rejected a proposal from British lawmakers that would prevent U.K. companies from using products made by Uyghur forced labor.

China denies mistreating Uyghurs
Dolkun Isa, the president of World Uyghur Congress and one of the witnesses at the tribunal, told VOA that Uyghurs have long fought for a day in court and now they can finally tell their stories.
"The tribunal is an essential body to document all the evidence pertaining to the Uyghur crisis," Isa said, adding that he hopes results stemming from the panel will provide another incentive for governments around the world to find the political will to take appropriate action to hold China accountable.
The tribunal considers itself an alternative in the absence of an international legal body investigating the alleged crimes. Its second set of hearings will take place in September, and a final ruling is scheduled for December.
Jurisdiction issues
Last December, the International Criminal Court said it would not investigate the case because it was outside its jurisdiction, as China was a nonmember state. And the International Court of Justice investigates only legal disputes between states submitted to it by them and provides advisory opinions on legal questions at the request of the United Nations and certain agencies.
"The Tribunal has always made it clear that it would not have been formed if there was a possibility of the allegations being considered at a formal international court," the Uyghur Tribunal stated on its website on Wednesday.



Members of the panel, from left, Ambreena Manji, Nick Vetch and Parveen Kumar listen as Chair of the panel Geoffrey Nice gives the opening address on the first day of hearings at the "Uyghur Tribunal" On June 4, 2021.
The organizer of the tribunal, London-based businessman Nick Vetch, said in a video before the first round of hearings that the proceedings can, to some degree, do what formal courts should be doing.
"(Uyghur Tribunal) can provide a body of evidence that is indelible and available to posterity," Vetch said.
During the hearing at the headquarters of the Church of England, nearly three dozen witnesses and experts appeared in person and virtually. They testified about internment camps, persecution, forced labor, torture, rape, the compulsory sterilization of women and forced contraception, forced separation of children from their parents, destruction of cultural and religious heritage, and organ harvesting by Chinese authorities against Uyghurs and other Turkic groups in Xinjiang.

Among the witnesses was former Chinese police officer Wang Leizhan, who was among some 150,000 Chinese police recruits sent to Xinjiang in 2018. He told the panel that the police engaged in arbitrary arrests, torture and forced confessions while denouncing the faith of Uyghurs.

"When I arrived and I went on my round, we arrested around 300,000 Uyghurs," Wang told the panel, speaking remotely in Germany, where he sought refuge in 2020.

"The reason for these arrests included that they might have had a knife at home or because they were showing their cultural identity, or they were somehow considered to have a different ideology," Wang said, adding that in some villages, the entire local population was taken to camps.
China responds
Chinese officials deny accusations by some countries and rights groups that it is holding over 1 million Uyghurs in internment camps while subjecting many others to forced labor around the country. Beijing says it provides "vocational training" and "poverty alleviation programs" aimed at helping Uyghurs become better citizens.
During a press conference in Urumqi, China, Wednesday, Elijan Anayit, a spokesperson for the Xinjiang autonomous government, called the tribunal a pseudo court lacking authority.
"The hearing is a serious violation of international law and order, a serious desecration of the true victims of genocide, and a serious provocation to the 25 million people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang," Anayit said.
On Thursday, Amnesty International, in a new report, accused China of "massive and systemic abuses" against the Uyghurs under the guise of fighting terrorism.
"The government has devoted tremendous resources to concealing the truth about its actions," the 160-page report said, adding that China prevents millions of people living in Xinjiang from communicating freely about the situation and denies journalists and investigators meaningful access to the region.









Activists Praise UK 'People's Tribunal' on China's Alleged Uyghur Abuse


Human rights advocates say international community must act on results of the genocide investigation




www.voanews.com

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## Reashot Xigwin

faithfulguy said:


> check out this article by Max Blumenthal to find the truth. Max is one of the most respected journalist and one of the few legitimate ones. The other legitimate ones are Chris Hedges, Aaron Mate, Glenn Greenwald and Ben Norton.There are really few legitimate ones besides these ones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xinjiang shakedown: US anti-China lobby cashed in on 'forced labor' campaign that cost Uyghur workers their jobs - The Grayzone
> 
> 
> A campaign against supposed forced labor in Xinjiang has forced Uyghur workers out of their jobs while extracting a handsome payout from a US apparel company to Uyghur exile groups lobbying against China. A self-described “worker rights organization” in Washington, DC called the Worker Rights...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thegrayzone.com



In case you don't know Grayzone is a propaganda website.

The Grayzone - RationalWiki
For a supposedly "leftist" blog, editors of The Grayzone have either: a) promoted far right antisemitic beliefs, b) been promoted by alt-right activists, or c) promoted far-right activists themselves.


For example, Richard Spencer shouted Max Blumenthal in a tweet.[5] Although this might be guilt by association, it is totally normal that a notorious far-right leader would promote a left-wing journalist /sarcasm.
Ben Norton, another major editor of The Grayzone, has retweeted[6] a fascist and Holocaust denier.[7] The account also supports a race war[8], is very sexist and homophobic[9] .
Max Blumenthal and Anya Parampil, who are married (Parampil formerly worked for RT), frequently appear on Fox News with Tucker Carlson.[10]
Zero Hedge cites The Grayzone multiple times.[11][12][13][14][15][16]
Max Blumenthal, whose father (Sidney Blumenthal




) is Jewish, is an antisemite who compares Israel to Nazi Germany in _Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel_ (2013).
He was banned from the German parliament and the opposition party for his antisemitic views.[17]
Blumenthal also compares Israel to ISIS.[18]
David Duke praised him for his work.[19]
Blumenthal's articles are republished by the alt-right The Unz Review[20]
Their podcast, Moderate Rebels, promotes white nationalist Pepe Escobar.[21]
So, next time if you hear The Grayzone calling everyone they disagree with far-right, bring these up.

*China[edit]*

The Grayzone denies that up to 1 million Uyghurs are in re-education camps in Xinjiang.[30][31] They believe that there are only 2 studies that corroborate this number, but in reality there are many methods of obtaining similar results.[32] They misrepresent CHRD's investigation by claiming that they only interviewed 8 people. In reality, they interviewed 8 people from 8 different villages, which means that their conclusion is much more accurate.[33] Surprisingly, China's officials suggest that the interviewees' numbers are correct.[34] They also discredit CHRD's research by stating that they received funds from the National Endowment for Democracy (NED).



It also attacks Adrian Zenz



instead of his research and talks about his far right, fundamentalist, sexist, and homophobic beliefs. Not only is this ironic and hypocritical, they did not bother criticizing his methodology. The only thing in the article that comes close to attacking his methodology is stating that the data comes from a separatist group in Xinjiang. However, Zenz cites other sources in his study, especially Chinese government documents.[35] The article also fails to mention that it was a Chinese government official who gave them the numbers.[36][37]
They also opposed the Hong Kong protests



, asserting that the CIA, NED, and George Soros funded the Hong Kong protesters, and exaggerated the amount of alt-right support of the protests [note 3]. They attempt to frame the protesters as literally Hitler by saying that the Neo-Nazi group Azov Battalion joined the protest. In reality, they only went for a tour in Hong Kong and went to places like Ocean Park (whose founder is Pro-Beijing). Also, the protestors have condemned the battalion as well.[38]
They doxxed a Hong Kong activist named Brian Kern.[39] His pseudonym is Kong Tsung-Gan, a Tibetan sounding name.[40][note 4] They plagiarized The Standard's article about it (written 8 months before The Grayzone "exposed" him).[41] They blame the mainstream media for using him as a source, but it's not like The Grayzone does it as well right?[42] When someone talks about Brian, try talk about Charles Redvers.
The Grayzone: Anti-Americanism Isn't an Ideology | BadEmpanada - YouTube

Here's the article debunking grayzone claim that there is no genocide in xinjiang.
China Law & Policy (chinalawandpolicy.com)


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## PakFactor

Lol.


----------



## Bilal.

First UK should pay reparation for 250 years of violence, plunder and destruction caused by them before talking about other things.


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## Rollno21

Bilal. said:


> First UK should pay reparation for 250 years of violence, plunder and destruction caused by them before talking about other things.


If you take history into account were do you stop.what ever happened in the past is no excuse to close once eyes to the present.and certainly not bringing in whataboutism.

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## Globenim

US state run propaganda mouthpiece cites fake US/UK state paid activists praising their own selfappointed fake cangaroo tribual, after making a joke out of themself for hours in an attempt to propagandize lies by the genodical US regime projecting its own warcrimes and terrorism against people wordwide on its adversaries. This is considered "journalism" in America 🤔

Q: Interesting claims! Exactly what we want to hear! Can you tell where you got this info from?
A: I read it on social media
😂


----------



## Bilal.

Rollno21 said:


> If you take history into account were do you stop.what ever happened in the past is no excuse to close once eyes to the present.and certainly not bringing in whataboutism.


Ok, let’s first have them solve or hear talk about the mess they left willfully during and after their occupation and in their endless US coalition led invasions and destructions that is plaguing the world right “now”. This bullshit that they care about human dignity does not fly.


----------



## aziqbal

Cheehg said:


> Same old farts. There is no evidence. 6 or 7 people are not millions. Even though there are no names and locations of those 6 or 7.



so what are all those buildings built between 2019-2021 in Xinjging with blue roofs? toy factories ?

why did China not give access to Human right commissioner after 27 requests ?

Genocide is now recognised by the international community and it will be referred to as such, a Genocide and ethnic cleansing 

China has also taken Han Chinese families and told them to adopt the Ughurs and force them into converting to Han Chinese

China also did this in Tibet and HK

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## Cthulhu

And yet no Palestinian ever got to testify on how they are treated under the apartheid state of Israel in a 'People's Tribunal' in little uk for the past 50 years, The reason is the union jack hated Muslims, They hated Chinese, But now they love Chinese Muslims all of the sudden.

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## Bilal.

Cthulhu said:


> And yet no Palestinian ever got to testify on how they are treated under the apartheid state of Israel in a 'People's Tribunal' in little uk for the past 50 years, The reason is the union jack hated Muslims, They hated Chinese, But now they love Chinese Muslims all of the sudden.


More like Machiavellian schemes to get their interests.


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## Globenim

Rollno21 said:


> whataboutism.


Irony bringing up this American propaganda coined fake "fallacy" to defend American "whataboutchinaism" projecting all the crimes and attrocities, which America and its closests axis members actually do commit, on innocent countries it tries to destablize, while distracting from its own endless and ongoing attrocities and avoid and relativize judgment for Americas real crimes by just shouting "crime" louder than their victims..


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## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

Who is this @aziqbal poster are you mentally retarded or something why you keep posting outside the mega-thread you already got banned for it many times.. @waz @PakSword @LeGenD please clean the forum up... This is a spammed propaganda we are not born yesterday it won't be spammed here where we already have many topics to talk about.... Take it to the mega-thread at your pleasure

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## Reashot Xigwin

Cthulhu said:


> And yet no Palestinian ever got to testify on how they are treated under the apartheid state of Israel in a 'People's Tribunal' in little uk for the past 50 years, The reason is the union jack hated Muslims, They hated Chinese, But now they love Chinese Muslims all of the sudden.



So it's okay to let the uighurs be genocided because Israel is doing it to the palestinian? 

How about you condemn both & call out both country. 

I know super hard right?


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## striver44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404649121475039234

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## faithfulguy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> In case you don't know Grayzone is a propaganda website.
> 
> The Grayzone - RationalWiki
> For a supposedly "leftist" blog, editors of The Grayzone have either: a) promoted far right antisemitic beliefs, b) been promoted by alt-right activists, or c) promoted far-right activists themselves.
> 
> 
> For example, Richard Spencer shouted Max Blumenthal in a tweet.[5] Although this might be guilt by association, it is totally normal that a notorious far-right leader would promote a left-wing journalist /sarcasm.
> Ben Norton, another major editor of The Grayzone, has retweeted[6] a fascist and Holocaust denier.[7] The account also supports a race war[8], is very sexist and homophobic[9] .
> Max Blumenthal and Anya Parampil, who are married (Parampil formerly worked for RT), frequently appear on Fox News with Tucker Carlson.[10]
> Zero Hedge cites The Grayzone multiple times.[11][12][13][14][15][16]
> Max Blumenthal, whose father (Sidney Blumenthal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) is Jewish, is an antisemite who compares Israel to Nazi Germany in _Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel_ (2013).
> He was banned from the German parliament and the opposition party for his antisemitic views.[17]
> Blumenthal also compares Israel to ISIS.[18]
> David Duke praised him for his work.[19]
> Blumenthal's articles are republished by the alt-right The Unz Review[20]
> Their podcast, Moderate Rebels, promotes white nationalist Pepe Escobar.[21]
> So, next time if you hear The Grayzone calling everyone they disagree with far-right, bring these up.
> 
> *China[edit]*
> 
> The Grayzone denies that up to 1 million Uyghurs are in re-education camps in Xinjiang.[30][31] They believe that there are only 2 studies that corroborate this number, but in reality there are many methods of obtaining similar results.[32] They misrepresent CHRD's investigation by claiming that they only interviewed 8 people. In reality, they interviewed 8 people from 8 different villages, which means that their conclusion is much more accurate.[33] Surprisingly, China's officials suggest that the interviewees' numbers are correct.[34] They also discredit CHRD's research by stating that they received funds from the National Endowment for Democracy (NED).
> 
> 
> 
> It also attacks Adrian Zenz
> 
> 
> 
> instead of his research and talks about his far right, fundamentalist, sexist, and homophobic beliefs. Not only is this ironic and hypocritical, they did not bother criticizing his methodology. The only thing in the article that comes close to attacking his methodology is stating that the data comes from a separatist group in Xinjiang. However, Zenz cites other sources in his study, especially Chinese government documents.[35] The article also fails to mention that it was a Chinese government official who gave them the numbers.[36][37]
> They also opposed the Hong Kong protests
> 
> 
> 
> , asserting that the CIA, NED, and George Soros funded the Hong Kong protesters, and exaggerated the amount of alt-right support of the protests [note 3]. They attempt to frame the protesters as literally Hitler by saying that the Neo-Nazi group Azov Battalion joined the protest. In reality, they only went for a tour in Hong Kong and went to places like Ocean Park (whose founder is Pro-Beijing). Also, the protestors have condemned the battalion as well.[38]
> They doxxed a Hong Kong activist named Brian Kern.[39] His pseudonym is Kong Tsung-Gan, a Tibetan sounding name.[40][note 4] They plagiarized The Standard's article about it (written 8 months before The Grayzone "exposed" him).[41] They blame the mainstream media for using him as a source, but it's not like The Grayzone does it as well right?[42] When someone talks about Brian, try talk about Charles Redvers.
> The Grayzone: Anti-Americanism Isn't an Ideology | BadEmpanada - YouTube
> 
> Here's the article debunking grayzone claim that there is no genocide in xinjiang.
> China Law & Policy (chinalawandpolicy.com)



It’s sad that you go with the MSM smear. Of course the whole establishment media regard Grayzone as propaganda. As they won’t toe the establishment narrative. The same Russiagate or Saddam’s WDM narrative. I can guarantee that any one deny WDM in 2003 would be smeared and treated as an enemy. Just like how the establishment is treating Grayzone.

never again I would be deceived like in 2003.

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## Cthulhu

Reashot Xigwin said:


> So it's okay to let the uighurs be genocided because Israel is doing it to the palestinian?
> 
> How about you condemn both & call out both country.
> 
> I know super hard right?


For the past 60 years not only the evil westerners kept total silence on the Palestinian genocide by the israel, They throw their unwavering support behind their genocidal israeli bodies, Even today they refuse to condemn the killing of Palestinian children:




And then, These evils turn around and treat us like children and start shedding crocodile tears for the uighurs to get us rallied against China so they sit aside and get us do their dirty work for them, using uighurs as their geopolitical condoms in the process. 

But the only enemies of Islam and Muslims are these evil westerners roaming around on the holy Middles Eastern grounds, Always have been, Always will be. And by grace of Allah, They will be cleansed from this earth by the righteous mujahids.


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## Iñigo

"Max Blumenthal (...) is an antisemitic"

This is the exact definition of the West

I don't like onion soup and therefore onion soup is antisemitic

a boring soccer game is antisemitic

a bad traffic day in a big city is antisemitic

my mother in law is antisemitic

and anyone who dares to criticize "our colonial project" is antisemitic

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## Cheehg

aziqbal said:


> so what are all those buildings built between 2019-2021 in Xinjging with blue roofs? toy factories ?
> 
> why did China not give access to Human right commissioner after 27 requests ?
> 
> Genocide is now recognised by the international community and it will be referred to as such, a Genocide and ethnic cleansing
> 
> China has also taken Han Chinese families and told them to adopt the Ughurs and force them into converting to Han Chinese
> 
> China also did this in Tibet and HK


You are saying they cannot build anything in Xinjiang?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

faithfulguy said:


> It’s sad that you go with the MSM smear. Of course the whole establishment media regard Grayzone as propaganda. As they won’t toe the establishment narrative. The same Russiagate or Saddam’s WDM narrative. I can guarantee that any one deny WDM in 2003 would be smeared and treated as an enemy. Just like how the establishment is treating Grayzone.
> 
> never again I would be deceived like in 2003.



Instead you get deceived by russian propaganda outlet. How is that an improvement?

Also russiagate is real. Robert Mueller even testify under oath & named DJT as prime suspect. Trump Tower meeting - Wikipedia 

This is why gullible people like you who immediately believes Russian & chinese propaganda are even worse than Trump supporters. 

So far even non mainstream outlet confirm that situation in Xinjiang can be classified as genocide.


----------



## faithfulguy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Instead you get deceived by russian propaganda outlet. How is that an improvement?
> 
> Also russiagate is real. Robert Mueller even testify under oath & named DJT as prime suspect. Trump Tower meeting - Wikipedia
> 
> This is why gullible people like you who immediately believes Russian & chinese propaganda are even worse than Trump supporters.
> 
> So far even non mainstream outlet confirm that situation in Xinjiang can be classified as genocide.



If you still think Russiagate is real, than you must be still looking for Iraqi WDM. The MSM really get you good.


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## Reashot Xigwin

faithfulguy said:


> If you still think Russiagate is real, than you must be still looking for Iraqi WDM. The MSM really get you good.



There's around 30 people convicted with over 100 criminal charges filed against them. It's real alright.

Let me guess you prob listen to jimmy dore if you read Grayzone. Did you know he's a sexual predator? Just pointing out the kind of people you support.


----------



## faithfulguy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> There's around 30 people convicted with over 100 criminal charges filed against them. It's real alright.
> 
> Let me guess you prob listen to jimmy dore if you read Grayzone. Did you know he's a sexual predator? Just pointing out the kind of people you support.



Ana, is that you. Ana???
TYT stooge like you support them because you are exposed as MSM shill.And you like being shills. Why even exist if you sound like Rachel Maddow. Did you see the Roger Waters interview in Katie Helper show. That was golden, isn’t it. He tore you up, Ana.


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## master_13

PeaceGen said:


> mr ostrich, there are witness accounts collected by Amnesty International now.
> and like the suspicions about possible WMDs in Iraq was Saddam's responsibility to *disprove*, and like Iran and North-Korea have the responsibility to prove their ongoing innocence when it comes to nuclear weapons development, China bears the burden of proving it's own innocence regarding the claims of crimes against humanity and ethnicities in China.
> 
> Chinese re-education, labor and prison camps are notoriously secretive and hard to get cameras into.
> 
> the crimes against humanity and ethnicities that China is accused of are so horrendous that China has to prove itself innocent of said charges.
> 
> the only way to do *that*, is to allow any camera team from anywhere at all times full access to all of China's re-education, labor and prison camps.
> 
> failure to do so will surely lead to increasingly stiff boycotts and sanctions getting placed on China by the rest of the world..



so US treating China like an enemy can level any sort of vicious accusation at china, and china has to prove itself innocent? No, it doesn't work this way, the party making the accusation has to provide evidence, otherwise US can constantly make vicious accusation against china, and China has to constantly force itself to open up for CIA agents for "inspection". US makes accusation, US has to provide evidence, period. US will never allow itself for investigation. After international court accused US of war crimes in Afghanistan, which drew international condemnation, and UN started investigation, guess what US did? US sanctioned judges in the UN court, effectively blocked international court investigation of US war crimes.

The Iraqi WMD issue is exactly the reason why US has to provide proof when it makes accusation. European went along with the American lies without demanding US providing proofs of WMD, and now over 2M innocent are dead in Iraq due to American atrocious war crime committed there and no WMD were ever found. US lies, it then invades, it proves over and over why the party making lies and accusations have to show the proof first.



striver44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404649121475039234



Guess how much overall chinese population has dropped in the same period? Intentionally only picking out Uyghur numbers yet ignore overall drop in population growth rate of entire China? As people become richer, they tend to have less children, and the increasing cost of educating child is also an issue, why are these not factored in?


----------



## master_13

Reashot Xigwin said:


> So it's okay to let the uighurs be genocided because Israel is doing it to the palestinian?
> 
> How about you condemn both & call out both country.
> 
> I know super hard right?



There are tons of pictures and videos of Palestinian being bombed to dust by Israel using American provided bombs, while there hasn't been a single dead body US can provide as proof of so called "Uyghur genocide". Besides Xinjiang is a tourist hotspot, tons of foreign and Chinese tourist go there each day, so you saying China want foreigner tourists to go there to witness "genocide" themselves? What's surprising is that many of you are against propaganda when US media smears against Muslims, yet when US media smears against china, all you thinks its the truth.


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## PeaceGen

master_13 said:


> so US treating China like an enemy can level any sort of vicious accusation at china, and china has to prove itself innocent? No, it doesn't work this way, the party making the accusation has to provide evidence, otherwise US can constantly make vicious accusation against china, and China has to constantly force itself to open up for CIA agents for "inspection". US makes accusation, US has to provide evidence, period. US will never allow itself for investigation. After international court accused US of war crimes in Afghanistan and started investigation, guess what US did? US sanctioned judges in the UN court, effectively blocked international court investigation of US war crimes.
> 
> The Iraqi WMD issue is exactly the reason why US has to provide proof when it makes accusation. European went along with the American lies without demanding US providing proofs of WMD, and now over 2M innocent are dead in Iraq due to American atrocious war crime committed there and no WMD were ever found. US lies, it then invades, it proves over and over why the party making lies and accusations have to show the proof first.



according to wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War, the highest confirmed number of casualties in the Iraq war was one million, not two. Other equally independent estimates put the number much lower.









History of Tibet (1950–present) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






> The Central Tibetan Administration claimed that the number that have died of starvation, violence, or other indirect causes since 1950 is approximately 1.2 million.[64]



but my main point here is this :
blaming the other side for their misconduct during wars and population control missions ultimately leads to an atmosphere (on an entire forum, as we see these days on defence.pk) of warmongering, and likely also lead to more of the same (mass-)suffering you claim to find morally detestable (and rightfully so, we agree on this point actually).

it takes actual peacemaker skills and courage, to look at, and write to, one's own government party/parties and media organisations to help prevent such repeats of horrible events and practices.
and for the record : i already do this.

it's ok for you all to point out what the west can do better, and what it had better not repeat.
but if you do so without adressing your own gorram governments about what *they* do wrong to people under *their* control, then i won't take you seriously.

and you're completely crazy when you say evidence has to be provided by the accuser, while the accused keeps the facilities where the accusations lead to are kept under a tight lock and seal.


master_13 said:


> There are tons of pictures and videos of Palestinian being bombed to dust by Israel using American provided bombs, while there hasn't been a single dead body US can provide as proof of so called "Uyghur genocide". Besides Xinjiang is a tourist hotspot, tons of foreign and Chinese tourist go there each day, so you saying China want foreigner tourists to go there to witness "genocide" themselves? What's surprising is that many of you are against propaganda when US media smears against Muslims, yet when US media smears against china, all you thinks its the truth.


once again, the facilities where these crimes against humanity happen in China, are kept under a very tight lock and secrecy, even flat-out denial.

your response to the accusations is not good enough, Chinese.
far from it.

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## master_13

PeaceGen said:


> according to wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War, the highest confirmed number of casualties in the Iraq war was one million, not two. Other equally independent estimates put the number much lower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of Tibet (1950–present) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but my main point here is this :
> blaming the other side for their misconduct during wars and population control missions ultimately leads to an atmosphere (on an entire forum, as we see these days on defence.pk) of warmongering, and likely also lead to more of the same (mass-)suffering you claim to find morally detestable (and rightfully so, we agree on this point actually).
> 
> it takes actual peacemaker skills and courage, to look at, and write to, one's own government party/parties and media organisations to help prevent such repeats of horrible events and practices.
> and for the record : i already do this.
> 
> it's ok for you all to point out what the west can do better, and what it had better not repeat.
> but if you do so without adressing your own gorram governments about what *they* do wrong to people under *their* control, then i won't take you seriously.
> 
> and you're completely crazy when you say evidence has to be provided by the accuser, while the accused keeps the facilities where the accusations lead to are kept under a tight lock and seal.
> 
> once again, the facilities where these crimes against humanity happen in China, are kept under a very tight lock and secrecy, even flat-out denial.
> 
> your response to the accusations is not good enough, Chinese.
> far from it.



accuser providing evidence is the bedrock of every country's legal system, it's not crazy, it's the norm. US sanctioned UN court judges for investigating US massive war crimes, and it blocked any investigation into its crime, so china will not take US seriously when US asks China to open it itself up for inspection, especially when it can't even provide one single first hand concrete proof. You talk about "secret" facilities, no, china has no obligation to open itself up for any foreign inspection just because you are accusing it, unless you can provide one single concrete proof to date, which US has provided none, zero. Same thing, US will never allow itself for international inspection either, despite massive war crimes it committed around the world.

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## PeaceGen

master_13 said:


> accuser providing evidence is the bedrock of every country's legal system, it's not crazy, it's the norm. US sanctioned UN court judges for investigating US massive war crimes, and it blocked any investigation into its crime, so china will not take US seriously when US asks China to open it itself up for inspection, especially when it can't even provide one single first hand concrete proof. You talk about "secret" facilities, no, china has no obligation to open itself up for any foreign inspection just because you are accusing it, unless you can provide one single concrete proof to date, which US has provided none, zero. Same thing, US will never allow itself for international inspection either, despite massive war crimes it committed around the world.



actually both the accuser and the accused have to provide evidence and witness accounts in any legal trial.

there has over the past few years been an increasing amount of detail reported in western media, but all you Chinese do is deny and deflect with a certain dispicable kind of veiled arrogance.

you want evidence?
ok..









‘Absolutely No Mercy’: Leaked Files Expose How China Organized Mass Detentions of Muslims (Published 2019)


More than 400 pages of internal Chinese documents provide an unprecedented inside look at the crackdown on ethnic minorities in the Xinjiang region.



www.nytimes.com





i'm not saying China should not combat terrorism or seperatism.
i'm saying it should be done with detective work and special ops work,
rather than mass-incarceration, forced mass-indoctrination and random torture.

China needs to provide a constant stream of *evidence* of it's innocence.

Or we will have every reason to start to boycot the Chinese economy by making our own economies produce and consume locally or with new allies (India, Africa, South-America), and sanction Chinese leaders.

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## master_13

PeaceGen said:


> actually both the accuser and the accused have to provide evidence and witness accounts in any legal trial.
> 
> there has over the past few years been an increasing amount of detail reported in western media, but all you Chinese do is deny and deflect with a certain dispicable kind of veiled arrogance.
> 
> you want evidence?
> ok..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Absolutely No Mercy’: Leaked Files Expose How China Organized Mass Detentions of Muslims (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> More than 400 pages of internal Chinese documents provide an unprecedented inside look at the crackdown on ethnic minorities in the Xinjiang region.
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not saying China should not combat terrorism or seperatism.
> i'm saying it should be done with detective work and special ops work,
> rather than mass-incarceration, forced mass-indoctrination and random torture.
> 
> China needs to provide a constant stream of *evidence* of it's innocence.
> 
> Or we will have every reason to start to boycot the Chinese economy by making our own economies produce and consume locally or with new allies (India, Africa, South-America), and sanction Chinese leaders.



no, you are wrong, only the accused has to provide evidence. If accuser can't provide evidence to prove the other party is guilty, even if the accused sits on his butt the whole time without doing anything, then the accused still walks free. That's the bedrock of "presumption of innocence", you are guilty only when you are proven guilty. The "increasing" amount of detail from western media are nothing but circumstantial at best, none of them can stand up in the court of law, if you accusing "genocide", you need to provide some dead bodies, to date, west hasn't provided a single dead body attributable to "genocide". You think if it's "genocide", there has to be vast amount of dead people, but west has failed in even providing one. I don't deny human rights abuse has happened in China, so does the US, but to accuse "genocide"? that's a high hurdle to clear in order to prove.


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## PeaceGen

master_13 said:


> no, you are wrong, only the accused has to provide evidence. If accuser can't provide evidence to prove the other party is guilty, even if the accused sits on his butt the whole time without doing anything, then the accused still walks free. That's the bedrock of "presumption of innocence", you are guilty only when you are proven guilty. The "increasing" amount of detail from western media are nothing but circumstantial at best, none of them can stand up in the court of law, if you accusing "genocide", you need to provide some dead bodies, to date, west hasn't provided a single dead body attributable to "genocide". You think if it's "genocide", there has to be vast amount of dead people, but west has failed in even providing one. I don't deny human rights abuse has happened in China, so does the US, but to accuse "genocide"? that's a high hurdle to clear in order to prove.



well, when it comes to crimes against humanity and genocide, as well as WMD development programs, the accused has to prove their innocence.
such was the case for Saddam, such is the case for Iran and North Korea, and it should be no different for China either, in my opinion.

while the Saddam and Iran situations are handled with covert ops and military missions, the China dilemma will i think be handled by economic sanctions and boycotts that drive production work orders out of China and into the consuming nations (US, EU, India, Africa, South-America).

as far as providing evidence goes, here's another one:








Who are the Uyghurs and why is China being accused of genocide?


China has been accused by the US of genocide and crimes against humanity against the Muslim minority group.



www.bbc.com

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## master_13

PeaceGen said:


> well, when it comes to crimes against humanity and genocide, as well as WMD development programs, the accused has to prove their innocence.
> such was the case for Saddam, such is the case for Iran and North Korea, and it should be no different for China either, in my opinion.
> 
> while the Saddam and Iran situations are handled with covert ops and military missions, the China dilemma will i think be handled by economic sanctions and boycotts that drive production work orders out of China and into the consuming nations (US, EU, India, Africa, South-America).
> 
> as far as providing evidence goes, here's another one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Uyghurs and why is China being accused of genocide?
> 
> 
> China has been accused by the US of genocide and crimes against humanity against the Muslim minority group.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



what makes you think " crimes against humanity and genocide, as well as WMD development programs, the accused has to prove their innocence"? Does that mean others can accuse you with lies constantly, and you have to constantly prove innocence? Guess what, countries like US will never bother to prove its innocence for its own crime against humanity such as war crime in Afghanistan, the US just sanction the international court of justice judges. US even released convicted mass civilian killer soldier in 2018, who killed numerous innocent civilians in Iraq, who was convicted in US own court, and US released him and called him a patriot. Guess what, US doesn't care and won't ever show any proof to prove its innocence or allow any international inspection for its own crimes. No wonder China doesn't take US call for inspection seriously.

Again, a BBC article? really? still no dead body to show? I don't even bother reading any BBC article, which known for anti-china agenda, show me a dead body first for the so called "genocide".

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## Reashot Xigwin

faithfulguy said:


> Ana, is that you. Ana???
> TYT stooge like you support them because you are exposed as MSM shill.And you like being shills. Why even exist if you sound like Rachel Maddow. Did you see the Roger Waters interview in Katie Helper show. That was golden, isn’t it. He tore you up, Ana.



At least I know where u stands Tankie that makes it easier for me. Also the point of any news orgs is to report facts not spout government propaganda. Grayzone has posted that white helmet are terrorists despite overwhelming evidence that it was assad's 

Are the Syrian 'White Helmets' Rescue Organization Terrorists? | Snopes.com

So if grayzone lied about this what else could they be lying about? Maybe about the genocide in xinjiang. 

China’s Uyghur genocide is undeniable (msn.com) 

If anyone wondering what tankie means it's this:
Joshua Collins on Twitter: "1) A THREAD on tankie twitter: Its worth the time to take a look at this batshit crazy movement. Let's start by defining the term In 1956 a student rebellion erupted in Hungary, citing Stalins purges as murders, and the labor camps as State slavery https://t.co/iAaLoDEFyC" / Twitter


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## faithfulguy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> At least I know where u stands Tankie that makes it easier for me. Also the point of any news orgs is to report facts not spout government propaganda. Grayzone has posted that white helmet are terrorists despite overwhelming evidence that it was assad's
> 
> Are the Syrian 'White Helmets' Rescue Organization Terrorists? | Snopes.com
> 
> So if grayzone lied about this what else could they be lying about? Maybe about the genocide in xinjiang.
> 
> China’s Uyghur genocide is undeniable (msn.com)
> 
> If anyone wondering what tankie means it's this:
> Joshua Collins on Twitter: "1) A THREAD on tankie twitter: Its worth the time to take a look at this batshit crazy movement. Let's start by defining the term In 1956 a student rebellion erupted in Hungary, citing Stalins purges as murders, and the labor camps as State slavery https://t.co/iAaLoDEFyC" / Twitter



Ana, you do ad hominem attacks way too much. Grayzone exposed Russia gate. Also, you must think Julian Assange is a bad guy for exposed establishment corruption. Grayzone has critically acclaimed journalists such as Blumenthal, Mate and Norton. MSM hate them. But you like them as you are paid well by your masters, Ana.

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## Reashot Xigwin

faithfulguy said:


> Ana, you do ad hominem attacks way too much. Grayzone exposed Russia gate. Also, you must think Julian Assange is a bad guy for exposed establishment corruption. Grayzone has critically acclaimed journalists such as Blumenthal, Mate and Norton. MSM hate them. But you like them as you are paid well by your masters, Ana.



So does Buzzfeed but at least buzzfeed doesn't make a pro-Assad & pro-genocide news. Also so called "acclaimed journalists" 

*Connections with far-right activists[edit]*
For a supposedly "leftist" blog, editors of The Grayzone have either: a) promoted far right antisemitic beliefs, b) been promoted by alt-right activists, or c) promoted far-right activists themselves.


For example, Richard Spencer shouted Max Blumenthal in a tweet.[5] Although this might be guilt by association, it is totally normal that a notorious far-right leader would promote a left-wing journalist /sarcasm.
Ben Norton, another major editor of The Grayzone, has retweeted[6] a fascist and Holocaust denier.[7] The account also supports a race war[8], is very sexist and homophobic[9] .
Max Blumenthal and Anya Parampil, who are married (Parampil formerly worked for RT), frequently appear on Fox News with Tucker Carlson.[10]
Zero Hedge cites The Grayzone multiple times.[11][12][13][14][15][16]
Max Blumenthal, whose father (Sidney Blumenthal




) is Jewish, is an antisemite who compares Israel to Nazi Germany in _Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel_ (2013).
He was banned from the German parliament and the opposition party for his antisemitic views.[17]
Blumenthal also compares Israel to ISIS.[18]
David Duke praised him for his work.[19]
Blumenthal's articles are republished by the alt-right The Unz Review[20]
Their podcast, Moderate Rebels, promotes white nationalist Pepe Escobar.[21]
So, next time if you hear The Grayzone calling everyone they disagree with far-right, bring these up.

The Grayzone - RationalWiki 

This is not MSM calling Grayzone out pretty much everybody with common sense can smell BS a mile away. Wonder why you can't smell them though?
Grayzone, Grifters and the Cult of Tank | by Joshua Collins | Muros Invisibles | Medium 

Please tell me how china did no genocide when evidences (from the chinese gov. no less said otherwise) said yes they pretty much did.


----------



## faithfulguy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> So does Buzzfeed but at least buzzfeed doesn't make a pro-Assad & pro-genocide news. Also so called "acclaimed journalists"
> 
> *Connections with far-right activists[edit]*
> For a supposedly "leftist" blog, editors of The Grayzone have either: a) promoted far right antisemitic beliefs, b) been promoted by alt-right activists, or c) promoted far-right activists themselves.
> 
> 
> For example, Richard Spencer shouted Max Blumenthal in a tweet.[5] Although this might be guilt by association, it is totally normal that a notorious far-right leader would promote a left-wing journalist /sarcasm.
> Ben Norton, another major editor of The Grayzone, has retweeted[6] a fascist and Holocaust denier.[7] The account also supports a race war[8], is very sexist and homophobic[9] .
> Max Blumenthal and Anya Parampil, who are married (Parampil formerly worked for RT), frequently appear on Fox News with Tucker Carlson.[10]
> Zero Hedge cites The Grayzone multiple times.[11][12][13][14][15][16]
> Max Blumenthal, whose father (Sidney Blumenthal
> 
> 
> 
> ) is Jewish, is an antisemite who compares Israel to Nazi Germany in _Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel_ (2013).
> He was banned from the German parliament and the opposition party for his antisemitic views.[17]
> Blumenthal also compares Israel to ISIS.[18]
> David Duke praised him for his work.[19]
> Blumenthal's articles are republished by the alt-right The Unz Review[20]
> Their podcast, Moderate Rebels, promotes white nationalist Pepe Escobar.[21]
> So, next time if you hear The Grayzone calling everyone they disagree with far-right, bring these up.
> 
> The Grayzone - RationalWiki
> 
> This is not MSM calling Grayzone out pretty much everybody with common sense can smell BS a mile away. Wonder why you can't smell them though?
> Grayzone, Grifters and the Cult of Tank | by Joshua Collins | Muros Invisibles | Medium
> 
> Please tell me how china did no genocide when evidences (from the chinese gov. no less said otherwise) said yes they pretty much did.



So their crime is being praised by racist or appeared on Fox News. And God forbid, compare Israel to terrorists!!!! If that is all youhave against them, then they are in good shape. All you have listed give me more confidence about how right they are and msm and their tools such as buzzfeed, democracy now, vice media, the intercept, and your network tyt are working for the establishment.

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## zectech

From the usa criminals:

*Guards accused of ‘systematically’ sexually assaulting detainees at El Paso ICE Processing Center*




Bob Moore/El Paso Matters/FileEl Paso's ICE Processing Center on Montana Avenue.

EL PASO, Texas -- Guards at the ICE El Paso Processing Center on Montana Avenue sexually assaulted and harassed inmates in a “pattern and practice” of abuse, according to a complaint filed by a Texas advocacy group urging the local district attorney and federal prosecutors to conduct a criminal investigation. _(Read the entire document at the end of this article.)_
The allegations, detailed in a filing first obtained by ProPublica and The Texas Tribune, maintain that guards systematically assaulted at least three people in the facility overseen by Immigration and Customs Enforcement — often in areas of the detention center not visible to security cameras. The guards told victims that no one would believe them because footage did not exist and the harassment involved officers as high-ranking as a lieutenant.
According to the complaint filed with the Department of Homeland Security’s Office of Inspector General and shared with prosecutors, several guards “forcibly” kissed and touched the intimate parts of at least one woman. She faces deportation next week — meaning investigators could lose a key witness. Her attorneys have requested that immigration officials pause her deportation pending a review of the matter.
The woman said in a telephone interview that she would rather return to Mexico, even though she is in danger there. She said she worried about being targeted in the detention center for speaking up about the abuse.
“It’s going to get worse now,” she said. “I can’t handle this anymore.”
Since the complaint was filed Wednesday, two more women, including one who is currently detained in the El Paso facility and one who was previously held there, have come forward with abuse allegations. At least one other woman was deported after a guard assaulted her, detainees told lawyers.
An El Paso County District Attorney’s Office spokesperson said that the agency had forwarded “potentially criminal allegations” to the DHS’ Office of Inspector General, which did not respond to emails seeking comment. A spokesperson for the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Western District of Texas said that it had received the complaint and takes allegations of “misconduct by public officials extremely seriously.”
A spokesperson for ICE wrote in an email that the agency was aware of the accusations and that they would be investigated, including by its Office of Professional Responsibility. A 2003 law intended to protect against such abuses sets stringent standards for detention facilities.
ICE has “zero tolerance for any form of sexual abuse or assault against individuals in the agency’s custody and takes very seriously all allegations of employee misconduct,” the spokesperson wrote. “When substantiated, appropriate action is taken.”
A spokesperson for Global Precision Systems, a subsidiary of Bering Straits Native Corporation, which contracts with ICE to run the El Paso facility, wrote in an email that she could not comment on pending legal matters.
The El Paso allegations are the latest instance of sexual abuse complaints related to detention centers run by ICE, which imprisons about 50,000 immigrants across the country each year — mostly through contractors at a taxpayer expense of almost $2.7 billion.
About 14,700 complaints alleging sexual and physical abuse were lodged against ICE between 2010 and 2016, according to federal data obtained by the advocacy group Freedom for Immigrants. The group found that only a small fraction were investigated by the Office of Inspector General.
In 2018, the year with the most updated statistics available online, ICE reported 374 formal accusations of sexual assault, of which 48 were substantiated by the agency and 29 remained pending an investigation as of that year.
Most recently, in a May federal court filing in Houston, a Mexican woman said that she was in an ICE facility there in 2018 when she and two female detainees were moved to an isolated cell. Around midnight, three men wearing facial coverings entered the cell. They raped and beat them, according to the complaint. The immigrants were bused to Mexico hours later, where the woman eventually discovered she was pregnant from the assault.
A spokesperson for the company overseeing that detention center, CoreCivic, denied the allegations, calling them “slanderous.” The woman’s attorney, Michelle Simpson Tuegel, said the pregnancy aligns with the woman’s stay in ICE detention. The civil lawsuit is ongoing.
The El Paso accusations that are the subject of this latest complaint to authorities came to light when one of the women, a 32-year-old Salvadoran, was released because of a medical condition and told an attorney that she feared for the detainees still there.
“She was that disturbed by what was happening,” said Linda Corchado, director of legal services for Las Americas Immigrant Advocacy Center, who filed the complaint. “It’s awful to think how disposable these women are.”
She said they are especially vulnerable because many will probably be deported, making it more unlikely that their abusers face consequences.
The Salvadoran woman told Corchado that she was detained in the El Paso facility for about three months where she was repeatedly harassed. A guard said that if she would “fool around” with him he would give her clean uniforms and soap. He told her that he would pay her “a lot of money” to meet him for sex in a spot not visible to cameras.
Two other officers also repeatedly targeted her, according to the complaint. One sent her messages through other women even after she was released.
She said in a telephone interview that guards encouraged women to sign up for anti-anxiety medication and antidepressants because they oversee the dispensing of medication at night and have access to an enclosed off-camera area.
“Most women who are still there are scared of saying anything,” she said. “You don’t know what they can do.”
A male detainee, a legal permanent resident convicted of money laundering, said that an officer in the detention center stared at him while rubbing his genitals as he showered in July, according to the complaint. After he reported the incident to a captain, the detainee was placed in solitary confinement. He began a hunger strike and was transferred to another ICE facility. Lawyers said that he speaks English and is better able to advocate for himself than most of the female victims, who speak only Spanish.
The woman who remains in the El Paso detention center and is set to be deported is a 35-year-old mother from Mexico who was charged with a drug-related crime and illegally entering the country.
During her 11 months in the ICE facility, she told lawyers that two guards assaulted her. In November, an officer touched her private areas and kissed her while she was in an area not visible to cameras. The assault happened as she was walking back from the medical unit to her barrack.
Days later, the guard did so again.
“If she behaved,” he told her, according to the filing, “he would help her be released.”
He stared at her through a window while she used the bathroom.
When she complained to a captain, she said he dismissed her. She said she did not see that officer for several months but that he later returned, becoming “increasingly aggressive and intimidating.”
“She has lived in constant panic that he may do something against her again,” according to the document.
The woman said another officer also assaulted her at least twice in a camera “blind spot,” touching and kissing her. These attacks also happened when she was returning from the medical unit to her cell.
A lieutenant passed messages through her to other detained women.
If she reported them, an officer warned, “No one would believe her.”









Guards accused of ‘systematically’ sexually assaulting detainees at El Paso ICE Processing Center - KVIA


EL PASO, Texas -- Guards at the ICE El Paso Processing Center on Montana Avenue sexually assaulted and harassed inmates in a “pattern and practice” of abuse, according to a complaint filed by a Texas advocacy group urging the local district attorney and federal prosecutors to conduct a criminal...




kvia.com





*Military Bases Housing Migrant Children Plagued by Serial Sexual Abuse Claims*









Military Bases Housing Migrant Children Plagued by Serial Sexual Abuse Claims


Some of the military bases now housing migrant children have been plagued for years by extremely high rates of sexual abuse claims, including one with the highest such rate in the entire Department of Defense.




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## Nan Yang

Uyghur's tears: 7 hours rush to save Uyghur boy's severed arm.

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## aziqbal

*Canada leads international coalition calling on China to allow investigators free access to Xinjiang*
*Social Sharing*


*Separate alliance of 60 elected officials from 18 countries calls for probe into 'indications of genocide'*
Peter Zimonjic, Philip Ling · CBC News · Posted: Jun 18, 2021 12:57 PM ET | Last Updated: June 19






*Canada leading global push to investigate China’s treatment of Uyghurs*
2 days ago
2:30
Canada is expected to lead a global effort to start a United Nations investigation into China’s human rights abuses on its Uyghur Muslim minority at the United Nations Human Rights Council. 2:30
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Canada is leading an international effort at the United Nations to demand that China allow "meaningful and unfettered access" to investigate "credible reports" of widespread human rights violations against China's Muslim minority in Xinjiang province, CBC News has learned.
An international alliance that is expected to include more than 20 countries — including Canada's G7 partners and Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand — will make its demand in a joint statement it's expected to deliver to the United Nations Human Rights Council's headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland on Monday.
"We are gravely concerned about the human rights situation in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region," says a draft of the joint statement seen by CBC News and addressed to UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet.
"We urge China to allow immediate, meaningful and unfettered access to Xinjiang for independent observers, including the High Commissioner," reads the statement, which also calls for the end of "the arbitrary detention of Uyghurs and members of other Muslim minorities."
The statement also expresses concerns about the "deterioration of fundamental freedoms" in Hong Kong and Tibet and calls on China to "abide by their human rights obligations."

Dealing with growing Chinese authoritarianism a challenge for democracies: Garneau
Representatives of Chinese dissident groups reject Trudeau's comments on racism
China welcomes UN visit to Xinjiang, but opposes investigation
The international effort comes as 60 parliamentarians from 18 countries in the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, including Canada, plan to issue a separate public letter asking the UN Human Rights Council to set up an independent commission of inquiry to investigate what it calls crimes against humanity and indications of genocide in Xinjiang province.
These diplomatic moves follow years of reports from media, academic and UN experts that have accused China of imprisoning more than a million Muslim-minority Uyghurs in concentration and "deradicalization" camps, targeting them for forced labour, sexual violence, population control methods and sweeping surveillance.
The Chinese government has denied the claims of human rights abuses.
*China pushes back*
In February, the Chinese government lashed out at Canada after the House of Commons voted to declare that China is committing genocide against Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslims in Xinjiang.
"Facts have proven that there's no genocide in Xinjiang. This is the lie of the century made up by extremely anti-China forces," said Wang Wenbin, a spokesperson for China's foreign ministry, according to a translation of his remarks provided by the foreign ministry.
The Commons motion said that China's persecution of these groups amounts to genocide, according to the definition set out in the 1948 UN Genocide Convention, and called on the federal government to formally adopt that position.
A substantial majority of MPs — including most Liberals who participated — voted in favour of the non-binding motion, which was proposed by the Conservative Party.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and all but one member of his cabinet were absent for the vote. Foreign Affairs Minister Marc Garneau was present but said he was abstaining from the vote "on behalf of the Government of Canada."
A draft of the joint statement to be delivered to the council in Geneva expresses grave concerns about what is going on in Xinjiang.
*'Torture ... cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment'*
"Credible reports indicate that over a million people have been arbitrarily detained in Xinjiang and that there is widespread surveillance disproportionately targeting Uyghurs and other minorities and restrictions on fundamental freedoms and Uyghur culture," the draft joint statement says.
"There are also reports of torture or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment or punishment, forced sterilization, sexual and gender-based violence, and forced separation of children from their parents by authorities."
The joint statement also expresses concerns about allegations of "forced labour" and the "collective repression of religious and ethnic minorities" by the Chinese regime.
Aware of the coming joint statement, China issued a preemptive rebuke to the countries behind it, accusing them of habitually using "human rights issues as tools to practice blatant political manipulation."





Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian gestures as he speaks during a daily briefing at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs office in Beijing on Feb. 24, 2020. (Andy Wong/The Associated Press)
"Some individual countries like the U.S., Canada and the U.K. have been seeking to attack and smear China under the guise of human rights, making and spreading disinformation, and abusing the platform of the UN Human Rights Council," Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian told reporters in a briefing.
Zhao went on to say pressure tactics like the joint statement only obstruct international dialogue and cooperation on human rights. He also accused the countries behind the joint statement of ignoring human rights abuses in their own countries.
"They have human rights issues like racism, gun violence, forced labour, child labour, and the list goes on and on," Zhao said, citing the death of George Floyd in police custody in the U.S. and reports on the discovery of "the remains of Indigenous children found in residential schools in Canada."





A man holds a child as they watch a dance performance at the International Grand Bazaar in Urumqi in western China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, in April. (Associated Press/Mark Schiefelbein)
The public letter on behalf of elected officials from 18 countries in the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China separately alleges that China is "committing crimes against humanity" in Xinjiang, with "credible sources finding indications of genocide."
The parliamentarians also accuse the council of "failing to end impunity for perpetrators of abuse."
"At least one million people are held in arbitrary detention, with inmates exposed to sexual abuse, torture and political indoctrination," the letter says.
"Since 2015, birth rates of minority groups have declined dramatically in the wake of forced sterilizations, forced abortions and draconian birth control policies against minority groups."

EXCLUSIVE
UN in 'serious negotiations' with China about letting observers into Xinjiang province: Antonio Guterres
China announces sanctions on Canadians, including MP Michael Chong
Canada sanctions 4 Chinese officials for human rights abuses in Xinjiang
The coalition of international parliamentarians is asking the council to establish an independent commission of inquiry to investigate allegations of human rights abuses, identify the alleged perpetrators, make recommendations to end those abuses and report back regularly to the UN on progress.
China did not commit to providing the access for UN investigators that the joint statement demands. Zhao did say, without elaborating, that "the world will see the facts and come to a fair judgment."
"If these countries think they can deceive the international community, jeopardize the prosperity, stability and sustainable development of Xinjiang and hamstring China's development by fabricating lies on Xinjiang, that will be like trying to hold back the tide with a broom," he said. "Failure will be their fate!"
*Amnesty says China has created ‘dystopian hellscape’ in Xinjiang*
Rights group alleges ‘crimes against humanity’ being perpetrated against Uighurs, other Muslim minorities.




Uighur women gather outside the Chinese consulate in Istanbul to denounce the alleged rights violations of Uighurs in Xinjiang [File: Ozan Kose/AFP]
By Al Jazeera Staff
10 Jun 2021
China’s far western region of Xinjiang has become a “dystopian hellscape” where Uighurs and other predominantly Muslim ethnic minorities face systematic and state-organised “mass internment and torture amounting to crimes against humanity”, Amnesty International said in a new report, citing dozens of eyewitness accounts from former detainees.
In a study published on Thursday, Amnesty said the minority groups had been forced to abandon their religious traditions, language and culture, and subjected to mass surveillance, supporting previous allegations of genocide and ethnic cleansingcommitted within a network of hundreds of detention centres.
KEEP READING
Australia Uighurs despair over ‘disappeared’ relatives in ChinaWhy China’s exploitation of Uighurs implicates Western brandsChina’s treatment of Uighurs is ‘crimes against humanity’: Report
More than 50 former camp detainees shared new testimony with Amnesty, providing a detailed inside account of the conditions and treatment of Uighurs and other groups in the internment camps sanctioned by Chinese authorities since 2017, Amnesty said.
“The Chinese authorities have created a dystopian hellscape on a staggering scale in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region,” said Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s secretary-general and a former UN investigator on human rights.


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“Uyghurs, Kazakhs and other Muslim minorities face crimes against humanity and other serious human rights violations that threaten to erase their religious and cultural identities.
“It should shock the conscience of humanity that massive numbers of people have been subjected to brainwashing, torture and other degrading treatment in internment camps, while millions more live in fear amid a vast surveillance apparatus.”
Torture and other ill-treatment are systematic in the camps and every aspect of daily life is regimented in an effort to forcibly instil secular, homogeneous Chinese nation and Communist party ideals, the 160-page report said.


In recent days, China has also been accused of rolling out birth-control policies targeting the same minority groups, aiming to cut between 2.6 to 4.5 million birthswithin 20 years.
Aside from the Uighurs and Kazakhs, the Hui, Kyrgyz, Uzbek and Tajik minorities in Xinjiang have also been swept up in the campaign.
China has previously rejected the genocide and ethnic cleansing charges, saying the internment camps are vocational training centres aimed at countering the threat of “extremism”.
On Wednesday, Beijing also presented family members and former neighbours to refute the testimonies of witnesses who have appeared at a UK special tribunal investigating allegations of genocide and crimes against humanity in Xinjiang. However, a human rights advocate warned that Beijing’s witnesses may have been speaking “under duress”.

*‘Tiger chair’ interrogation*
Since early 2017, huge numbers of Uighur men and women as well as other Muslim ethnic minorities have been arbitrarily detained or imprisoned, the report said.

They include hundreds of thousands who have been sent to prisons in addition to the one million the UN estimates to have been sent to the internment camps. Al Jazeera has published similar witness accounts detailing the experience of Uighurs inside the detention centres.
All of the more than 50 former detainees told Amnesty they were detained for what appeared to be entirely lawful conduct, such as possessing a religiously themed picture or communicating with someone abroad
The witnesses said that many of them underwent intense interrogation at police stations, and the process included beatings and sleep deprivation.
They were also made to sit up to 24 hours in so-called “tiger chairs”, with affixed leg irons and handcuffs that restrain the body in painful positions.




Since early 2017, huge numbers of Uighurs as well as other Muslim ethnic minorities have been arbitrarily detained or imprisoned in a network of facilities spread across Xinjiang [File: Greg Baker/AFP]One woman, detained for having the WhatsApp messaging platform on her phone, said life under detention was heavily regimented, from an early morning flag-raising ceremony to a series of classroom sessions and late-night duties to monitor other cellmates.


“There was not a minute left for yourself. You are exhausted,” the woman was quoted as saying by Amnesty.
*Systematic torture*
Every former detainee interviewed suffered torture or other ill-treatment, including electric shocks, water and sleep deprivation and exposure to extreme cold among others, the report said.
An older woman who was punished for defending her cellmate said she was taken to a small, dark, cold and windowless room where she had her hands and feet cuffed and was forced to sit on an iron chair for three days straight.
Two former detainees said they had been forced to wear heavy shackles – in one case for an entire year. Others described being shocked with electric batons or sprayed with pepper spray.
Some detainees reported being tortured multiple times, while others said they were forced to watch their cellmates being tortured.


Play Video
Amnesty International learned of one case where a detainee is believed to have died as a result of being restrained in a tiger chair, in front of his cellmates, for 72 hours, during which time he urinated and defecated on himself.

“China must immediately dismantle the internment camps, release the people arbitrarily detained in them and in prisons, and end the systematic attacks against Muslims in Xinjiang,” said Callamard.
“The international community must speak out and act in unison to end this abomination, once and for all.”
A United States Senate committee held a hearing on Thursday addressing the alleged atrocities in Xinjiang with testimony from Uighur advocates and US researchers.
US legislators are considering bans on imports of solar panels and other products made with forced labour and plan to probe the role of US technology firms in enabling China’s mass repression in Xinjiang.
“We have some very concrete steps we can take,” said Senator Tim Kaine, adopting the Amnesty report as part of the Senate hearing record.

The US in March joined the EU, UK and Canada in levying specific sanctions on Chinese officials for what Secretary of State Antony Blinken called “genocide and crimes against humanity”.
In February, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi defended Beijing’s policy towards Uighurs and other groups, telling the UN Human Rights Council that “there has never been so-called genocide, forced labour or religious oppression in Xinjiang”.
He had also invited the UN human rights commissioner to visit the closed-off region but gave no time frame.




Ethnic minority students attend a class at the Urumqi Islamic Institution during a government-organised trip for foreign journalists, in Urumqi, western China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, on April 22 April. China has denied that rights abuses are taking place in Xinjiang, calling the allegations ‘the lie of the century’ [Wu Hong/EPA] Amnesty said it would be stepping up its campaign to secure the release of more than 60 people from Muslim minorities who are missing and believed to be detained in Xinjiang.

Meanwhile, Beijing faces more pressure as lawyers have submitted new evidence to the International Criminal Court (ICC) that China is forcibly returning thousands of Xinjiang people from Tajikistan to China.

Beijing denies the allegations of abuse and is not a signatory to the ICC statute. Tajikistan is a member, and lawyers hope its membership could be a way to bring the allegations of Chinese mistreatment of Uighurs before the court.
“Based on this new dossier of evidence presented to the ICC prosecutor, showing the actions of Chinese authorities directly in Tajikistan – an ICC State Party – it is clear that the ICC does have jurisdiction to open an investigation,” Rodney Dixon, a lawyer representing Uighur groups, said in a statement.
SOURCE: AL JAZEERA






*Uighur woman breaks silence as her fears grow: 'If our genocide is fake, then where is my husband?'*
Mehray Mezensof and Mirzat Taher have been married for almost five years but have been together for only 14 months of that time.
By Sabah Choudhry, news reporter 
Friday 11 June 2021 08:33, UK

Uighur
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Why you can trust Sky News
Australian-born Mehray Mezensof has been married to her husband, Mirzat Taher, 30, for almost five years.
But he has been absent for most of this period.
The 27-year-old told Sky News the young couple have only spent 14 months of their marriage together, as Mr Taher was in and out of China's so-called "vocational education and training" schools and detention centres - which some US officials have referred to as "concentration camps".




Image:Mehray Mezensof and her husband Mirzat Taher are both ethnically Uighur Muslims
On 1 April this year, he was sentenced to 25 years in jail, for involvement in alleged "separatist" political activities in Turkey.
She says the claims are "ridiculous" - and based on suspicion, rather than factual evidence.
Sir Iain Duncan Smith, co-founder of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, is calling on the G7 to act - and soon.
He told Sky News that the UK, as a host of the summit, has a duty to speak out against the "genocide" happening "right under our noses".
*More on Uighur*

*Uighur woman held in Chinese detention camp tells of 'inhuman torture'*
*China: Uighurs 'treated worse than dogs' in Xinjiang camps, independent 'people's tribunal' hears*
*House of Commons declares Uighurs are being subjected to genocide in China*
*Batches of 50 to 100 Uighur workers are being advertised on the Chinese internet*
*Parliament's email system less secure than Gmail, says MP 'hit by Chinese psy-op emails'*
*China sanctions: Boris Johnson praises MPs banned by Beijing for 'shining a light on gross human rights violations'*





Image:Sir Iain Duncan Smith says the UK should say more about China's human rights abuses
Sir Ian said Britain can "no longer turn a blind eye" to China's abuse towards its Uighur and minority populations and must "reconsider how we trade" as the UK and other Western countries are too dependent on China.
The former Conservative party leader says the Western world "allowed" China to join the free market without adhering to principles of democracy, the rule of law and human rights - what Francis Fukuyama termed "the end of history" - and the G7 now has the opportunity to fix this.
"In the chase for cheaper production… the 'greedy route' as I call it… we relied on an anti-democratic and brutal government… but we cannot separate business and trade from human rights."




Image:Mirzat Taher was recently granted permanent residency in Australia
Ms Mezensof has kept quiet up until now to protect their family, and with the hope that the Chinese Communist Party would release her husband sooner, if they were seen to be "co-operating".
She said: "My husband is a good person. He isn't a criminal. He isn't political. He hasn't done anything wrong, he's innocent."
His only crime, she told Sky News, is being ethnically Uighur.
According to Amnesty International, an estimated one million people, most of them Uighurs - a Muslim ethnic group living largely in the northwest Chinese province of Xinjiang - are believed to have been detained inside "re-education camps" by the Chinese authorities since 2017.
Although the UK government has declined to get involved, MPs in April passed a motion declaring *Uighurs are being subjected to "genocide"* and "crimes against humanity" in China.
The first steps of an independent "people's tribunal" in the UK was under way last week, to decide if this is true.
It heard that Uighurs are treated *"worse than dogs*" and "tortured day and night" in Chinese camps in Xinjiang.
Ms Mezensof was born and raised in Melbourne, Australia. Her parents emigrated from the Xinjiang region in northwestern China more than 35 years ago.
When she was 22, she travelled for the first time to the region's main city, Urumqi, and met Mr Taher - a moment she describes as "love at first sight".




Image:Australian-born Mehray Mezensof has been married to Mirzat Taher for almost five years
After an Islamic ceremony, the couple were married on 3 August 2016 with plans to settle in Melbourne.
Ms Mezensof extended her stay in Xinjiang while they waited for Mr Taher's Australian visa to come through.
At this time - things started to change.
"There were a lot of whispers going around," she said.
"People were disappearing in the middle of the night, police were coming and taking them away. No one knew where they were going, how long for.
"There was constant monitoring, surveillance. Heavy police presence - you'd get stopped on the street a lot to get your phone checked.
"We needed permission from the police to leave the city - you'd have to tell them where you were going, how long for…
"Everyone was on edge."




Image:Mehray Mezensof says she is concerned about the safety of her husband Mirzat Taher
China's *crackdown on Uighurs* and other minorities was beginning to ramp up in 2017, and Ms Mezensof's family in Melbourne became increasingly concerned for her safety.
Shortly after Mr Taher was granted a visa on 1 April 2017, the couple immediately booked plane tickets for Australia, due to fly out 11 days later.
However, one day before their flight was due to leave, police turned up at Mr Taher's house and took him away for questioning.
But he did not come home.
Mr Taher was held in a detainment centre for 10 months, and consequently transferred to two different "schools" for "re-education" - where Uighurs who are thought to be "extreme" or "terrorist-like" are sent by state officials.
The Chinese authorities deemed him "dangerous" because he had travelled to Turkey in 2014 and 2015.
It's thought he and other Uighurs in Turkey - who, like him, are ethnically Turkish and not Han Chinese - rallied against the Chinese state with the supposed aim of establishing independence from mainland China, Ms Mezensof understands.




Image:Australian-born Mehray Mezensof said her husband has been sentenced to 25 years in prison
Human Rights Watch report that, during this time, the Xinjiang authorities made foreign ties a punishable offence.
State officials targeted those with connections or travel history to "26 sensitive countries" - including Turkey - and subsequently interrogated, detained, and in some instances imprisoned those people.
However, despite claiming - and demonstrating - his visits consisted of a holiday and opportunity to study Turkish on a student visa, Mr Taher was held by the state for two years, until his unexpected release on 22 May 2019.
He had "graduated" from his "re-education" school and was deemed safe enough to re-integrate back into society.
Several weeks later, the couple reunited at the Urumqi airport.




Image:Mehray Mezensof says she has not heard from her husband for more than 200 days
Ms Mezensof, now on a six month Chinese visa, discovered that her husband, and others with him, were subject to "constant brainwashing" and "propaganda" in the camps.
She told Sky News that contrary to the Chinese state's propaganda videos, her husband did not develop any vocational skills, play sports or attend dance classes.
Rather, inmates were "forced" to learn about the Chinese Communist Party, memorise political speeches and confess their "crimes" to their class on a daily basis.
She said: "It wasn't really physical abuse…. But more mental and psychological.
"If one of them misbehaved - they suffered together. They weren't given food for that whole day, they pretty much starved.
"They were reminded every single day that none of them would ever get to see their family members again… and the only way they would leave is in a body bag, if you die."




The party secretary of Xinjiang, Chen Quanguo, has previously told Sky News that the facilities are tantamount to "boarding schools" - and that claims of "concentration camps" were "made up", "lies" and "very ridiculous".
Mr Taher decided against sharing explicit details of his ordeal with his wife - apart from the one time he accidentally spoke in the Uighur tongue and was handcuffed, strung to a door, and was forbidden to eat or drink.
But, unbeknown to them, they were running - once again - on borrowed time.
Ms Mezensof's six-month Chinese visa was running out, and the couple were struggling to obtain Mr Taher's passport from state officials.
She returned to Melbourne on 30 December 2019 - where she applied for another Chinese visa.
However, the COVID-19 pandemic hit, and Urumqi in Xinjiang was under lockdown. China had closed its borders to foreigners. The couple resorted to keeping in touch on WeeChat.
But on the morning of 19 May 2020 - Ms Mezensof felt uneasy. Her husband hadn't checked or responded to her messages in hours, which she says was very unlike him.
It later transpired that police had taken him from his bed and detained him for a second time - again, about his travels to Turkey.




Image:Mirzat Taher has been detained a number of times in China due to his travel in Turkey
He was kept in solitary confinement for two months and was in separate quarantine for 40 days after an inmate caught COVID-19.
Mr Taher's Australian permanent residency was granted shortly before his release.
However just weeks later, he was detained for a third time on 26 September 2020.
Ms Mezensof hasn't heard from his since.
Sky News has seen a notice of arrest issued by Hami police in Xinjiang on 23 October last year.
All she knows - and from her family in Xinjiang - that Mr Taher has been sentenced to 25 years in prison, for accusations of "separatist" activities which he asserts he had no part in.



*Detainees in Xinjiang camps tortured, beaten and given electric shocks, says Amnesty report*

She said: "I was in I was in shock that day, I think I like I was I sat for like, hours just crying and shaking my head, being like, no, no, no, no, this, this can't be…. this is a, this is a dream, I'm gonna wake up from it.
"I was just sitting there. And I was calculating it in my head being like, it's 25 years.
"So if he were to carry out that full sentence, when he comes out, he'll be 55. And I'll be 52… how can that be like that's our whole youth, our whole lives, just like ripped and taken away from us?
"The moment you get married and you're about to start your life with the person you love, it should be the happiest moment of your life, but instead I've been going through this in silence.
"This isn't something out of a movie, it is happening.
"It frustrates me when people say its fake, because if it was, where is my husband?
"We really wanted to start our own family…"




Image:Australian-born Mehray Mezensof met Mirzat Taher in Xinjiang's main city, Urumqi
She added: "I just want to know that my husband is alive, that he's somewhat doing okay… I just want to hear his voice.
"It's been over 200 days, since I've had any kind of communication with him. I've been backed into a corner, and there's no way out, besides going public.
"We have no ulterior motive. I just want to be with my husband."
Sky News has contacted Chinese state officials for comment relating to the claims made in this piece, but are yet to receive a response.

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## xuxu1457

*Uyghur villagers were forced to leave the their village.*

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## beijingwalker

our around Xinjiang's desert county, Hotan, and try to find jade in the Gobi desert

Hotan jade is the king of all jade in China, a small piece can be worth tens of thousand USD.

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## beijingwalker

*RT: The West has no right to preach to Muslim countries about human rights in China*
Tom Fowdy
is a British writer and analyst of politics and international relations with a primary focus on East Asia.
22 Jun, 2021 15:17

Western countries and media are constantly raising the issue of the Uighurs in Xinjiang – conveniently forgetting the death and destruction the US and its allies have brought to the Islamic world over the years.

Over the weekend, Axios journalist Jonathan Swan interviewed Pakistan’s Prime Minister Imran Khan on HBO. The outlet is well-known for pitching anti-China narratives, and Swan pressed Khan for his thoughts on what is happening to the Uighurs in Xinjiang, specifically calling their treatment a _“genocide”_. Khan rejected the questions, stating that Pakistan and China had a longstanding friendship and that Beijing had supported Islamabad through the _“toughest of times”_.

Unsurprisingly, Axios followed up by reporting that Khan was dismissive of the situation and even accused him of being silenced by a ‘debt trap’ owing to his country’s reliance on China for the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), stating: _“Khan is silent for a simple reason: cash-strapped Pakistan has become increasingly financially dependent on China, for billions in loans and investment.”_ Inevitably, the rest of the mainstream media also pushed this narrative, with the BBC quoting critical Pakistani diaspora voices in both the UK and Washington.

But is Khan’s position solely motivated by money? Absolutely not. Those living in Islamic countries believe the US and Western media have no credibility preaching to them about alleged human rights abuses regarding Muslims, and no Pakistani leader would be gullible enough to take such rhetoric at face value.

After all, public approval of the United States in Pakistan is among the lowest in the world, and a survey in the Obama era demonstrated the extent of this, with just 17% having a favourable view of America. Ultimately there is no other set of nations than the US and its allies which have engaged in such serious crimes against Muslims.

While the US preaches the mantra of ‘human rights’ and its media suggests that China is the enemy of Muslims, Islamic countries are conscious that this very same rhetoric has been used to pursue the wholesale destruction of Muslim lands across a massive scope of time.

From whitewashing Israel’s bombing of Gaza just a month ago, to events in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Somalia and more, why should Imran Khan take this kind of questioning seriously? Comparatively, it’s ridiculous to suggest China is the problem for the Muslim world when history speaks for itself.

This alone is a key point as to why the China-Pakistan relationship, despite significant ideological and theological differences, is so successful. It isn’t about money. Pakistan may be an Islamic republic and China a secular communist state which has advocated materialism and atheism. But the two countries have a rich 70-year history of ties which has been described as an _“iron brotherhood”__,_ built on common values of post-colonial and ‘global south’ solidarity, as well as the common norms of respect for territorial integrity and national sovereignty.

This has ensured a strong partnership, which has been further cemented by a common scepticism of India. To try to diminish this entire legacy on the idea ‘China has bought Pakistan’s silence’ is insulting and ignorant.

And that’s why when the US and its media suddenly accuse China of committing genocide in Xinjiang and suggest that Muslims have a responsibility to speak out about it, the idea is simply not credible to many in Islamic countries. They’ve heard it all before, often at their own expense.

Indeed, there are many other Muslim countries that share Pakistan’s views on Xinjiang and have even voiced support for China, including Iran, Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

The Western narrative is that they are ‘bought’, but this dismisses the logical consideration that even if their ideologies differ drastically, to actively promote what amounts to Islamism, extremism and separatism in other countries creates domestic instability, unrest and similar problems in tandem. They are not endorsing an all-encompassing security state, as Xinjiang is often described as; they’re supporting the right to control their own national affairs and maintain stability.

Take, for example, Turkey. While President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s own Pan-Turkish nationalism means he cannot support the Uighur situation in China, he does not weaponize the idea so readily, precisely because of one consideration: the Kurds. Similarly, in Pakistan itself, the government is constantly fighting an insurgency demanding independence for Balochistan.

Indonesia, too, may not openly support China’s Xinjiang position, but remains diplomatically silent on it precisely because of the enormous can of worms it would open with some of its ethno-separatist movements.

So the West is being disingenuous in its attitude towards the treatment of Muslims, as it does not truly consider the national interests of these countries too. This is why China has been able to get scores of countries to support it at the UN on this matter, not because it ‘bought them off’. It’s common interest.

As a whole, the Axios interview with Khan illustrates the sheer lack of awareness, double standards and lack of empathy for the Muslim world among Western journalists, and by extension their lack of empathy or remorse for the West’s own crimes against Islam as a whole.

They are blinkered so deeply by the ‘saviourship’ of human rights and the strident belief they are in the right that they completely fail to comprehend why other countries do not take their rhetoric seriously.

The same countries who destroyed the Middle East and give blanket backing to Israel have now appointed themselves as the champions of Uighurs, and are crying foul when Pakistan refuses to criticise its partner of 70 years. We shouldn’t be surprised.









The West has no right to preach to Muslim countries about human rights in China


Western countries and media are constantly raising the issue of the Uighurs in Xinjiang – conveniently forgetting the death and destruction the US and its allies have brought to the Islamic world over the years.




www.rt.com

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## beijingwalker

*Demolishing ‘genocide’ lies against Xinjiang*

From “concentration camp” to “forced labor,” the US and the West’s allegations of “genocide” in Xinjiang have no facts or legal basis. To weave lies against China, they chose a term that is foreign to China but can recall deep fear of themselves to the history of genocide.


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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> *Demolishing ‘genocide’ lies against Xinjiang*
> 
> From “concentration camp” to “forced labor,” the US and the West’s allegations of “genocide” in Xinjiang have no facts or legal basis. To weave lies against China, they chose a term that is foreign to China but can recall deep fear of themselves to the history of genocide.



this is a Chinese blogger posting a youtube video 

this is not what we call independent reporting 

do you understand why now no one believes what China says?


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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> this is a Chinese blogger posting a youtube video
> 
> this is not what we call independent reporting
> 
> do you understand why now no one believes what China says?


China rallies more countries to support China than the west did to smear China, so where is your "no one" from?


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## beijingwalker

Urumqi and Kashgar sing praise to the Chinese communist party to celebrate 100th anniversary of the party.


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## beijingwalker

*Pakistan accepts China's version on Xinjiang's Uighurs: PM Imran*
Dawn.com
Published July 1, 2021 - Updated about 6 hours ago





Prime Minister Imran Khan speaks to the Chinese media on Thursday. — DawnNewsTV

Prime Minister Imran Khan on Thursday said that Pakistan accepted Beijing's version regarding the treatment of Uighurs in China's Xinjiang province.

Speaking to Chinese journalists on Thursday as Beijing marked the centenary of the ruling Communist Party, the prime minister said that the Chinese version was completely different from what was being reported in Western media.

"Because of our extreme proximity and relationship with China, we actually accept the Chinese version."
He said that it was hypocritical that while the Uighur situation and Hong Kong was being highlighted, attention was not being given to the human rights violations in occupied Kashmir.

"It is hypocritical. There are much worse human rights violations taking place in other parts of the world such as in occupied Kashmir. But Western media hardly comments on this," he said.

*PM Imran praises Communist Party*
During his media talk, PM Imran also praised the Communist Party of China (CPC) for its unique model, calling it an alternative to Western democracy.

"Until now, we had been told that the best way for societies to improve was through Western democracy.
"The CPC has introduced an alternative model and they have beaten all Western democracies in the way they have highlighted merit in society," he said.

He said that a society only succeeds when it has systems in place for holding the ruling elite accountable and ensuring meritocracy. "Until now, the feeling was that electoral democracy is the best way to bring leaders on merit and hold them accountable.

"But the CPC has achieved much better [outcomes] without democracy. Their system for sifting through talent and bringing it up is better than the democratic system," he said.

PM Imran also praised the "flexibility" of the system. "In our society and in Western democracies, it is difficult to bring change as you are bound by rules and regulations," he said, lamenting the fact that democracies only plan for "the next five years".

He said that leaders like Chinese President Xi Jinping worked their way up from the bottom. "One can only become a leader after going through a long struggle. This process is not present in Western democracies. An American president doesn't go through this rigorous process."

He said that when leaders like Xi reach the top, they are able to completely understand the system, a trait that is "unique to China".
*'Pakistan will not take sides'*
The prime minister also highlighted Pakistan's strong ties with China.

"Whenever Pakistan has been in trouble, politically or internationally, China has always stood with us. The people of China have a special place in the hearts of Pakistanis," he said, adding that relations between the two countries have only gotten stronger.

"You see a strange great power rivalry in the region. The United States is wary of China and has formed a regional alliance called the 'Quad'.

"We think that it is unfair of the US and Western powers to expect countries like Pakistan to take sides," he said. "Pakistan will not downgrade its relations with China."

He added that the idea that India was supposed to act as a counter balance to China would be "detrimental" for the former. "China is too strong. India will reap far greater benefits by engaging in trade with China rather than trying to act as a counter balance. If anyone is going to lose out, it will be India."
He stated that Pakistan's relationship with China had nothing to do with India. "Our relationship is a bilateral relationship. It is extremely strong."

*Situation in Afghanistan*
Asked to comment on how he saw the situation unfolding in Afghanistan, the premier said: “Unfortunately no one has the answer right now.”

He said that the US trying to find a military solution in Afghanistan was its "biggest mistake". "They kept doing the same thing over and over and over again and thought they would get a different result,” the premier said.

He explained that historically, the people of Afghanistan have been resistant to “being dictated from the outside”. “You can invade Afghanistan, but once you are there it is a very difficult country to control.”
PM Imran said the Afghan war had gone on too long and created deep divisions in Afghan society.

He said that the moment the Americans decided there was no military solution in Afghanistan, they gave a date for the exit and the Taliban considered that a victory.

“Now when they think they have won the war, it is very difficult from Pakistan’s point of view to make them reach a political settlement.”

The prime minister said Pakistan was worried about the possibility of a civil war in Afghanistan. In such a scenario, Pakistan will suffer the most after Afghanistan, he said.

*'Pakistan committed to strengthening relations'*
The prime minister began his media talk by congratulating the Chinese president and the Communist Party. "In Pakistan, we admire the the Chinese president for two reasons: for his fight against corruption [...] and for bringing people out of poverty."

He said that Pakistan is committed to strengthening relations with China whether it be politically or economically.

"The China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) is a flagship project," he said, adding that he will be going to Gwadar next week to oversee development work. He said that he was also looking forward to his trip to China which is in the offing.

Commenting on the economic relationship between the two countries, the prime minister said that he sees this moving forward. "The next phase of CPEC is very exciting for Pakistan. We plan to attract Chinese investment for special economic zones as our labour is cheaper."

He said that Pakistan can learn a lot from China when it comes to agriculture. "China's agricultural productivity is much higher, and I hope that we can benefit from the latest techniques and technology."
He said that despite what the world may think of China due to its economic dominance, it admired President Xi.

"The way China dealt with the Covid-19 pandemic was unique [...] considering that it started there. When you look at the rest of the world, China stands out," he said, adding that Islamabad was grateful to Beijing for the help extended during the fight against the coronavirus.









Pakistan accepts China's version on Xinjiang's Uighurs: PM Imran


"Chinese version is completely different from what is being reported in Western media," he says.



www.dawn.com

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## Dariush the Great

Unbelievable that 340 pages are needed for dirty American propaganda.

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## beijingwalker

*Light Shows Illuminate Night Sky of Xinjiang to Celebrate CPC Centenary*


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## aziqbal

*China fails to meet promises on missing Xinjiang children*

Published21 June
Share

media captionThe families who want China to find their children
*Over the past two years, the Chinese authorities have repeatedly promised to help trace any children reported to be missing in Xinjiang, to prove that they haven't been forcibly separated from their parents. Those promises have not been met, reports John Sudworth.*
The first time China made a public promise to help find Kalbinur Tursan's children was in 2019.
"If you have people who have lost their children, you give me the names," China's then-ambassador to the UK, Liu Xiaoming, told the BBC in a live television interview in July that year.
Mr Liu denied that China's policies in its far-western region of Xinjiang could be leading to the large-scale separation of children from their parents but, he said, if we had any such evidence, he would investigate.
"We'll try to locate them and let you know who they are, what they're doing," he said.

media captionAmbassador Liu Xiaoming promises to help separated families
Kalbinur - a member of Xinjiang's largest Turkic ethnic group, the Uyghurs - now lives in Turkey, working late into the night in her tiny one-room apartment sewing clothes to support what is left of her shattered family.
She arrived in 2016, eight months pregnant with her seventh child, Merziye, conceived in violation of China's family-planning laws.
"If the Chinese authorities had known I was pregnant they would probably have forced me to abort my baby," she told me.
"So, I prepared my body by wrapping my belly to hide the bump for two hours every day and we managed to pass the border control like that."

Who are the Uighurs?
The cost of speaking up against China
China's hidden camps: The vanished Uighurs of Xinjiang
Xinjiang schools used to separate children from families
Although Kalbinur had applied for passports for all of her children, China's tough restrictions on travel for Xinjiang's ethnic groups meant that only one - for her two-year-old son Muhammed - was granted.
With time running out, she had little choice but to leave the others behind, hoping they could follow with her husband once they'd been given their documents.
As she boarded her flight, she had no idea that she wouldn't see them again.




image captionKalbinur, pictured with Merziye, sews clothes to support what is left of her shattered family
Out of sight, sweeping silently across China's vast western region, a campaign of mass-incarceration had already begun with a rapidly expanding network of what were, at first, highly secretive "re-education" camps.
A parallel network of boarding schools was also being built with the same aim; the forced-assimilation of Xinjiang's Uyghurs, Kazakhs and other minority groups whose identity, culture and Islamic traditions were now seen as a threat by the ruling Communist Party.




One policy paper, published the year after Kalbinur's departure, made clear that the purpose of such boarding schools was to "break the influence of the religious atmosphere" on children living at home.
A few weeks after her departure, her husband was detained and - like so many thousands of other members of the Uyghur diaspora watching their family members disappear from afar - she found herself in exile.
Almost overnight, even calling relatives became impossible because, for those still in Xinjiang, any overseas communication was seen as a potential sign of radicalisation and a key reason for being sent to a camp.
Facing almost certain detention if she returned to Xinjiang, and with her children now parentless, she's had no contact with them at all - except for one shocking discovery.



image captionKalbinur has had almost no news about her missing children in years
Searching online in 2018, she came across a video of her daughter, Ayse, now two years older than when she'd last seen her, in a school more than 500 kilometres from the family home.
With her hair shaved short, she was with a group of children being led in a game by a teacher speaking not in Uyghur - her mother tongue - but in Chinese.
For Kalbinur, the video brought both relief - a tangible link to at least one of her lost children - and deep anguish, as a painful, visual reminder of the guilt and grief that have never left her.
"Knowing she was in a different city made me think it's impossible to find my children, even if I do go back," she told me.
"To my children, I want them to know that I didn't abandon them, I had no choice but to leave them behind, because if I had stayed their new-born sister wouldn't have lived."




Kalbinur's story is just one of a large number of similar accounts of missing children gathered by the BBC from members of Xinjiang's Uyghur and Kazakh diasporas in Turkey and Kazakhstan.
Having first sought their permission, we sent Ambassador Liu Xiaoming the details of six of our interviewees, and attached copies of passports, Chinese ID cards and last-known addresses.
Three of the cases involved parents who had reason to believe their children were now in the care of the Chinese state.
Although his 2019 TV-appearance marked China's first public promise to investigate, similar assurances had already been given in private a few months earlier, when the BBC was taken on a government-organised tour of the camps in Xinjiang.



image captionChina's network of "re-education" camps has drawn intense international scrutiny
The initial secrecy had given way to a new strategy, with China insisting that the camps were, in fact, vocational schools in which those under the influence of separatist or extremist ideology willingly had their thoughts "transformed".
The Deputy Director of Xinjiang's Publicity Department, Xu Guixiang, denied that a generation of Uyghur and Kazakh children were being effectively orphaned as whole extended families - including all adult caregivers - were detained or stranded overseas.
"If all family members have been sent to education training centres, that family must have a severe problem," he told me.
"I've never seen such a case."
But when we passed on the details of some of our cases - again, with their prior permission - the officials promised to look into it.




One of the cases - handed to the officials in Xinjiang and sent to Ambassador Liu - involved not only missing children, but 14 missing grandchildren.
Originally from the village of Bestobe in the county of Kunes in northern Xinjiang, 66-year-old Khalida Akytkankyzy - like many ethnic Kazakhs - had family ties across the border in Kazakhstan.
In 2006 she and her husband, along with their youngest son, decided to emigrate, leaving her other three sons - already married and with children of their own - in Xinjiang.
But in early 2018, the relentless machinery of mass internment caught up with them too.



image captionKhalida Akytkankyzy left Xinjiang in 2006
Khalida received news that her three sons and their wives had all been detained "for political education".
She tried desperately to get information, including calling the Communist Party official in her old village, but no one would tell her who was looking after her grandchildren.
By 2019, when China began claiming that the camps had been successful in combating separatism and terrorism and that almost everyone had "graduated", for Khalida the news only got worse.



image captionKhalida Akytkankyzy not only misses her sons but her 14 missing grandchildren too
With the massive, parallel increase in Xinjiang's formal prison populationcontinuing unabated, her two eldest sons, Satybaldy and Orazjan, were sentenced to 22 years each, and her third son, Akhmetjan, to 10 years.
The village official told her they'd been convicted for "praying".
If there were other reasons for their imprisonment then the authorities have provided no details.



IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY IMAGES
image captionChina is accused of linking ordinary religious expression in Xinjiang to extremism or political separatism
China's UK embassy confirmed receipt of the letter and documents we'd addressed to Ambassador Liu but, although we sent follow-up emails in November 2019 and again in February 2020, our questions remained unanswered.
The officials in Xinjiang told us there was a "discrepancy" in the information we'd handed to them, and advised us to tell our interviewees to contact their nearest Chinese embassies instead.
In July 2020, Ambassador Liu appeared again on the same, live television programme, and was asked what had happened to his promise of a year earlier.
"I never received any names since our last show," he told the interviewer, Andrew Marr.
"I hope that you can give me the names, we certainly will get back to you."
He went on to suggest that his counterparts in Xinjiang would be able to facilitate such requests with ease - "they respond to us very quickly," he added.
So, we followed up again, sending emails in August and September 2020 and in January 2021.
"Chase-up email received," reads the latest response from an official at the embassy. "I regret no progress has been made so far."



IMAGE COPYRIGHTRFE/RFA
image captionKhalida's protests are often blocked by police
Nowadays, Khalida wakes early and takes a number of interconnecting buses to the Chinese consulate in the city of Almaty, just as the officials had advised us to tell her to do.
Carrying photographs of her three sons, however, she finds her daily attempts to seek answers blocked by a line of police.
"It's not just to me," she said in a video interview from her home.
"I'm often there with 10-15 other people and the Chinese consulate doesn't give any information to anyone."
In Turkey, Kalbinur is also still fighting for information about her husband, Abdurehim Rozi, and her five missing children, Abduhalik, Subinur, Abdulsalam, Ayse and Abdullah.



image captionKalbinur organised a 400km walk from Istanbul to Ankara in a bid to break the silence of the Chinese authorities
She recently took part in a 400km walk from Istanbul to Ankara with other Uyghur mothers, in a bid to break the silence of the Chinese authorities about their relatives.
Her campaigning has at least prompted a limited response, in a press conference - chaired by Xinjiang's deputy propaganda chief, Xu Guixiang - denying that her daughter is in a boarding school and insisting instead that the children are being looked after by a relative.
But Kalbinur is still unable to contact them and so China's claims are impossible to verify.
"I want the authorities to let me see my children," she told me over a video call as she took a break from her protest walk at the side of a busy highway.
"In this information age, why can't I contact my children?"




One of the cases we sent to Ambassador Liu did not involve missing children, but a missing mother instead.
In 2017, Xiamuinuer Pida, a 68-year old retired engineer with a long service record at a Chinese state-run company, was sent to a camp, where she was interned for 18 months before being released.
Her daughter, Reyila Abulaiti, who has lived in the UK since 2002, says the authorities are still refusing to grant her mother a passport, keeping her - like many other former camp inmates - under close surveillance in her home.



image captionReyila Abulaiti was born in Xinjiang, and now lives in the UK
During our 2019 visit to Xinjiang, Chinese officials insisted that she was entirely free but simply suffering from ill health, with one of them telling us that many elderly Uyghurs suffer dietary problems - "too much meat and milk," he said.
It was a suggestion that infuriated and saddened Reyila, who told me that her mother had, in fact, lost 15kg (33 pounds) in weight as a result of the harsh conditions during her incarceration.

Uyghur imams targeted in Xinjiang crackdown
China 'has created a dystopian hellscape in Xinjiang'
The cost of speaking up against China
The long read: China's tainted cotton
"They're trying to hide what they are doing," she replied, when asked about the authorities' failure to explain why Xiamuinuer had been sent for re-education.
"She's a well-educated, retired woman, she doesn't need vocational courses. She's been in a camp and they don't want my mum to speak out."
Earlier this year, Liu Xiaoming completed his tenure as Chinese ambassador to the UK, with an online farewell to British politicians and dignitaries and with his promise still unmet by the Chinese authorities.
Meanwhile, I've been forced to leave China as a result of the increasing pressure from the authorities over my journalism and, in particular, a growing number of threats to sue me over my reporting on Xinjiang.



image captionLiu Xiaoming has now completed his tenure as Chinese ambassador to the UK
Some of those threats have come directly from Xu Guixiang, the official I'd interviewed two years previously in Xinjiang.
The BBC had produced "fake news" and violated professional ethics, he told China's Communist Party-run media.
Yet despite the continued insistence of Chinese officials that - if we provided names - a quick search would easily disprove that families were being forcibly divided, they have offered only silence.
In addition to those already mentioned, we're still waiting to learn the whereabouts of a number of other children, including those of Yasin Zunun, who suspects that Muslima, Fatima, Parhat, Nurbiya and Asma are in a boarding school.
Merbet Maripet has heard nothing from her four children, Abdurahman, Muhammad, Adila and Mardan since 2017, and also believes they're now in the care of the state.
We asked the Chinese Foreign Ministry why no branch of government has been able to deliver on the clear promises to provide information about the missing individuals.
No response was received before this report was published.
Producer: Kathy Long









China fails to meet promises on missing Xinjiang children


China made a public pledge to help find Kalbinur Tursan's children but she may never see them again.



www.bbc.co.uk


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## beijingwalker

"Going to miss my campus life and my friends‘’， Uighur girl from a rural Xinjiang village graduates from college today and share this moment important moment of her life with friends. After taking graducation photos and saying goodbye to classmates, she goes to pick up her twin sister, who graduates from another university, and together they go back to their home village.

Xinjiang offers 15 years free education from kingdergarten to high school, after high school, poor families can enjoy handsome scholarship for college. Now almost every youngster in Xinjiang can attend college, unprecedented in the whole history.


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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> "Going to miss my campus life and my friends‘’， Uighur girl from a rural Xinjiang village graduates from college today and share this moment important moment of her life with friends. After taking graducation photos and saying goodbye to classmates, she goes to pick up her twin sister, who graduates from another university, and together they go back to their home village.
> 
> Xinjiang offers 15 years free education from kingdergarten to high school, after high school, poor families can enjoy handsome scholarship for college. Now almost every youngster in Xinjiang can attend college, unprecedented in the whole history.



that is fake
*China has created a dystopian hellscape in Xinjiang, Amnesty report says*
By Joel Gunter
BBC News

Published10 June
Share



IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY IMAGES
image captionChina's alleged abuses in Xinjiang have generated global outrage since an escalation in 2017
*The human rights organisation Amnesty International has said China is committing crimes against humanity in Xinjiang, the north-western region that is home to the Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities.*
In a report published on Thursday, Amnesty called on the UN to investigate, saying China had subjected Uyghurs, Kazakhs, and other Muslims to mass detention, surveillance, and torture.
Agnès Callamard, the secretary general of Amnesty International, accused Chinese authorities of creating "a dystopian hellscape on a staggering scale".
"It should shock the conscience of humanity that massive numbers of people have been subjected to brainwashing, torture and other degrading treatment in internment camps, while millions more live in fear amid a vast surveillance apparatus," Ms Callamard said.
She also accused the UN Secretary General António Guterres of "failing to act according to his mandate". 
Mr Guterres "has not denounced the situation, he has not called for an international investigation", Ms Callamard told the BBC. "It is incumbent on him to protect the values upon which the United Nations has been founded, and certainly not to stay silent in front of crimes against humanity," she said.





Chinese policy 'could cut millions of Uyghur births'
Uyghur imams targeted in Xinjiang crackdown
The cost of speaking up against China





In a 160-page report based on interviews with 55 former detainees, Amnesty said there was evidence the Chinese state had committed "at least the following crimes against humanity: imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law; torture; and persecution."
The report follows a similar set of findings by Human Rights Watch, which said in an April report that it believed the Chinese government was responsible for crimes against humanity.
China has been accused by some Western nations and rights groups of pursuing a genocide against the Turkic ethnic groups in Xinjiang - though there is dispute over whether the state's actions constitute a genocide.
The author of the Amnesty report, Jonathan Loeb, said at press conference on Thursday that the organisation's research "did not reveal that all the evidence of the crime of genocide had occurred" but that it had so far "only scratched the surface".
China routinely denies all accusations of human rights abuses in Xinjiang.
*'Severe violence and intimidation'*
Experts generally agree that China has detained as many as a million Uyghurs and other Muslims and imprisoned hundreds of thousands more in its crackdown in Xinjiang, which began in 2017.
There have been widespread reports of physical and psychological torture inside prisons and detention camps in the region.
China has also been accused of using forced sterilisation, abortion, and population transfer to reduce birth rates and population density, and of targeting religious leaders to break religious and cultural traditions.
China denies those accusations, and says its camps in Xinjiang are voluntary vocational and de-radicalisation programmes for combating terrorism in the region.
In its report, Amnesty said counter-terrorism could not reasonably account for mass detention, and that the Chinese government's actions showed a "clear intent to target parts of Xinjiang's population collectively on the basis of religion and ethnicity and to use severe violence and intimidation to root out Islamic religious beliefs and Turkic Muslim ethno-cultural practices".



IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY IMAGES
image captionChina is accused of detaining up to a million Uyghurs and other Muslims in detention camps in Xinjiang
The organisation said it believed those taken to the network of camps in Xinjiang were "subjected to a ceaseless indoctrination campaign as well as physical and psychological torture".
Those torture methods, according to the report, included "beatings, electric shocks, stress positions, the unlawful use of restraints (including being locked in a tiger chair), sleep deprivation, being hung from a wall, being subjected to extremely cold temperatures, and solitary confinement".
The "tiger chair" - the existence of which has been reported elsewhere - is said to be a steel chair with leg irons and handcuffs designed to shackle the body in place. Several former detainees told Amnesty they were forced to watch others locked immobile in the tiger chair for hours or even days at a time. 
Amnesty also said that the camp system in Xinjiang appeared to be "operating outside the scope of the Chinese criminal justice system or other known domestic law", and that there was evidence detainees had been transferred from camps to prisons.
Though many of the findings have been previously reported, Amnesty's investigation is likely to add to international pressure on China. The US state department has previously described China's actions in Xinjiang as a genocide, and the parliaments of the UK, Canada, Netherlands and Lithuania have passed resolutions making the same declaration.
In March, the EU, US, UK and Canada imposed sanctions on Chinese officials over the alleged abuses. China responded by imposing retaliatory sanctions on lawmakers, researchers and institutions.
The possibility of China being investigated by an international legal body is complicated by the fact that China is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court (ICC) - putting it outside the court's jurisdiction - and it has veto power over cases taken up by the International Court of Justice. The ICC announced in December it would not pursue a case.
An independent series of hearings was held in London last week, led by the prominent British barrister Sir Geoffrey Nice, aiming to assess the allegations of genocide.









China has created a dystopian hellscape in Xinjiang, Amnesty report says


In a new report, Amnesty International says China is committing crimes against humanity in Xinjiang.



www.bbc.co.uk








*More on this story*

media captionSince 2017, thousands of Kazakh Muslims have bee


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## doorstar

> An Independent East Turkestan will be bad for Pakistan


 those 39 who voted that an independent Xinjiang won't be bad for Pakistan are either retarded or are not Pakistanis. 

how is Pakistan going to connect Gwadar to China? is NATO member Turkey going to allow Pakistan access to China thru "turkestan"? not on your life!


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## beijingwalker

"Is this the same village I used to live when I was a child"?
This Uighur girl from southern Xinjiang Kashgar city visits a small rural village she used to live in southern Xinjiang desert region, she recalled that the village back then didn't have any paved roads, only dirt roads and because it is in the desert region, the dirt and sand built up really fast, when she walked on those dirt roads, the dirt and dust can come up to bury her ankles.
But look at it now, do you believe it is just a village? Government free earthquake resistant houses replaced every adobe house they used to live, trees and greenery are everywhere and the village has several village squares and even a museum....
The changes are just mind blowing...


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## onebyone



Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## huckyang

onebyone said:


>


Can India shows us some video of their own Muslim condition?


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## beijingwalker

onebyone said:


>


These two cute girls must be twins, they look the same!


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## beijingwalker

Uighur girl in Urumqi shows you the city light show for celebrationg of the 100th anniversary of the Chinese Communist Party, she said she was so happy and the city streets were packed with city residents enjoying this light show and celebrating this important day.


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## beijingwalker

Take a bullet train from Urumqi to Turpan desert, the hottest place in China, 45 degrees celsius!!! Deserts now are becoming tourist hotspots in Xinjiang.


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## aziqbal

*Uyghur Tribunal’ opens with testimony of alleged rape, torture*
Dozens are giving their accounts to a people’s tribunal in London, which China has dismissed as a ‘clumsy public opinion show’.





According to the United Nations, at least one million Uighurs have been detained in the internment camps in China's northwestern Xinjiang province [Alberto Pezzali/AP Photo]
4 Jun 2021
|
Updated: 
4 Jun 2021
02:50 PM (GMT)
A London-based people’s tribunal is investigating whether China’s alleged persecution of its Uighur minority amounts to genocide, with witness testimony detailing mass torture, rape and a range of other abuses.
The “Uyghur Tribunal” has no state backing and any judgement would not be binding on any government, but it has drawn a furious response from Beijing, which dismissed the hearings as a “machine producing lies”.
KEEP READING
The faux anti-imperialism of denying anti-Uighur atrocitiesChina slams New Zealand parliament’s motion on Uighur abusesBiden to push G7 on Uighur forced labour in China’s XinjiangChina’s treatment of Uighurs is ‘crimes against humanity’: Report
The first hearings take place over four days, from Friday to Monday, and are expected to draw dozens of witnesses. A second session is expected in September.
The nine United Kingdom-based jurors of the tribunal, including lawyers and human rights experts, intend to publish a report in December on whether China is guilty of genocide.
The first witness to testify on Friday, Qelbinur Sidik – an ethnic Uzbek teacher from Xinjiang’s capital Urumqi, said she was ordered by the Chinese Communist Party bosses to take Mandarin-language classes in two fetid and crowded “re-education” camps, one male and one female, for Uighurs.
The so-called students were made to wear shackles during hours-long classes, she told the tribunal.

“Guards in the camp did not treat the prisoners as human beings. They were treated less than dogs,” Sidik said through an interpreter. “They enjoyed watching them being humiliated and their suffering was for them their joy.”
Female prisoners were allegedly abused when they were taken for interrogation.
“They were not only tortured but also raped, sometimes gang-raped,” Sidik said. “The things that I have witnessed and experienced, I can’t forget.”
Sidik said she was also subjected to forced sterilisation.




Organisers hope the process of publicly laying out the evidence of an alleged state-orchestrated campaign of repression against the Uighurs, a largely Muslim ethnic group, in China’s northwest Xinjiang province will compel international action against the country’s authorities [Alberto Pezzali/AP Photo]Organisers hope the process of publicly laying out the evidence of alleged state-orchestrated repression against the Uighurs will compel international action against the country’s authorities.


According to the United Nations, at least one million Uighurs, a largely Muslim ethnic group, have been detained in the internment camps in China’s northwest Xinjiang province, which borders eight countries including Afghanistan, Pakistan and India.

*‘I want my son to be freed’*
The tribunal is chaired by prominent human rights lawyer Geoffrey Nice, who led the prosecution of ex-Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic and has worked on several cases brought before the International Criminal Court (ICC).


Play Video
It was set up at the request of the World Uyghur Congress, an international organisation of exiled Uighurs.
The tribunal’s organisers said Chinese authorities had ignored requests to participate in the hearings.
But counsel for the tribunal said the United States and Australia had offered to provide relevant material, to add to thousands of pages of documentary evidence already compiled.
Critics, including the UK and the US, say Uighurs have been subjected to human rights violations, including arbitrary detention, forced labour, torture, forced sterilisation and family separation.





The tribunal is chaired by prominent human rights lawyer Geoffrey Nice, who led the prosecution of ex-Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic and has worked on several cases brought before the ICC [Alberto Pezzali/AP Photo]Before giving testimony to the tribunal via video link, three Uighurs who fled from China to Turkey described their experiences.

One, named Rozi, said she was forced into an abortion when six and a half months pregnant. Her youngest son was detained in 2015, when he was just 13, and she hopes the tribunal’s work will help lead to his freedom.
“I want my son to be freed as soon as possible,” she said. “I want to see him be set free.”
Another, a former doctor, spoke of draconian birth control policies.
And a third, a former detainee, alleged he was “tortured day and night” by Chinese soldiers while imprisoned in the remote border region.
*Beijing denounces hearings*
China denies the allegations of abuse and claims the camps are “re-education” centres.

Officials insist that mass “education and training” is necessary in Xinjiang to fight what they call the “three evil forces of extremism, separatism and terrorism”, and boost economic development there.


Play Video
In March, the tribunal was among four UK entities and nine individuals sanctioned by Beijing for raising concerns about the treatment of the Uighurs.
China has also publicly condemned the tribunal.
“It is not even a real tribunal or special court, but only a special machine producing lies,” foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said last week. “It was founded by people with ulterior motives and carries no weight or authority. It is just a clumsy public opinion show under the guise of law.”
*Uyghur Tribunal’ opens with testimony of alleged rape, torture*
Dozens are giving their accounts to a people’s tribunal in London, which China has dismissed as a ‘clumsy public opinion show’.





According to the United Nations, at least one million Uighurs have been detained in the internment camps in China's northwestern Xinjiang province [Alberto Pezzali/AP Photo]
4 Jun 2021
|
Updated: 
4 Jun 2021
02:50 PM (GMT)
A London-based people’s tribunal is investigating whether China’s alleged persecution of its Uighur minority amounts to genocide, with witness testimony detailing mass torture, rape and a range of other abuses.
The “Uyghur Tribunal” has no state backing and any judgement would not be binding on any government, but it has drawn a furious response from Beijing, which dismissed the hearings as a “machine producing lies”.
KEEP READING
The faux anti-imperialism of denying anti-Uighur atrocitiesChina slams New Zealand parliament’s motion on Uighur abusesBiden to push G7 on Uighur forced labour in China’s XinjiangChina’s treatment of Uighurs is ‘crimes against humanity’: Report
The first hearings take place over four days, from Friday to Monday, and are expected to draw dozens of witnesses. A second session is expected in September.
The nine United Kingdom-based jurors of the tribunal, including lawyers and human rights experts, intend to publish a report in December on whether China is guilty of genocide.
The first witness to testify on Friday, Qelbinur Sidik – an ethnic Uzbek teacher from Xinjiang’s capital Urumqi, said she was ordered by the Chinese Communist Party bosses to take Mandarin-language classes in two fetid and crowded “re-education” camps, one male and one female, for Uighurs.
The so-called students were made to wear shackles during hours-long classes, she told the tribunal.

“Guards in the camp did not treat the prisoners as human beings. They were treated less than dogs,” Sidik said through an interpreter. “They enjoyed watching them being humiliated and their suffering was for them their joy.”
Female prisoners were allegedly abused when they were taken for interrogation.
“They were not only tortured but also raped, sometimes gang-raped,” Sidik said. “The things that I have witnessed and experienced, I can’t forget.”
Sidik said she was also subjected to forced sterilisation.




Organisers hope the process of publicly laying out the evidence of an alleged state-orchestrated campaign of repression against the Uighurs, a largely Muslim ethnic group, in China’s northwest Xinjiang province will compel international action against the country’s authorities [Alberto Pezzali/AP Photo]Organisers hope the process of publicly laying out the evidence of alleged state-orchestrated repression against the Uighurs will compel international action against the country’s authorities.


According to the United Nations, at least one million Uighurs, a largely Muslim ethnic group, have been detained in the internment camps in China’s northwest Xinjiang province, which borders eight countries including Afghanistan, Pakistan and India.

*‘I want my son to be freed’*
The tribunal is chaired by prominent human rights lawyer Geoffrey Nice, who led the prosecution of ex-Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic and has worked on several cases brought before the International Criminal Court (ICC).


Play Video
It was set up at the request of the World Uyghur Congress, an international organisation of exiled Uighurs.
The tribunal’s organisers said Chinese authorities had ignored requests to participate in the hearings.
But counsel for the tribunal said the United States and Australia had offered to provide relevant material, to add to thousands of pages of documentary evidence already compiled.
Critics, including the UK and the US, say Uighurs have been subjected to human rights violations, including arbitrary detention, forced labour, torture, forced sterilisation and family separation.





The tribunal is chaired by prominent human rights lawyer Geoffrey Nice, who led the prosecution of ex-Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic and has worked on several cases brought before the ICC [Alberto Pezzali/AP Photo]Before giving testimony to the tribunal via video link, three Uighurs who fled from China to Turkey described their experiences.

One, named Rozi, said she was forced into an abortion when six and a half months pregnant. Her youngest son was detained in 2015, when he was just 13, and she hopes the tribunal’s work will help lead to his freedom.
“I want my son to be freed as soon as possible,” she said. “I want to see him be set free.”
Another, a former doctor, spoke of draconian birth control policies.
And a third, a former detainee, alleged he was “tortured day and night” by Chinese soldiers while imprisoned in the remote border region.
*Beijing denounces hearings*
China denies the allegations of abuse and claims the camps are “re-education” centres.

Officials insist that mass “education and training” is necessary in Xinjiang to fight what they call the “three evil forces of extremism, separatism and terrorism”, and boost economic development there.


Play Video
In March, the tribunal was among four UK entities and nine individuals sanctioned by Beijing for raising concerns about the treatment of the Uighurs.
China has also publicly condemned the tribunal.
“It is not even a real tribunal or special court, but only a special machine producing lies,” foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said last week. “It was founded by people with ulterior motives and carries no weight or authority. It is just a clumsy public opinion show under the guise of law.”


----------



## aziqbal

*EU votes in favour of boycotting China Olympics over Uyghur rights abuses*

*UK’s foreign affairs committee also called for boycott of the 2022 Beijing Olympics*











EU votes in favour of boycotting China Olympics over Uyghur rights abuses


UK’s foreign affairs committee also called for boycott of the 2022 Beijing Olympics




www.independent.co.uk


----------



## beijingwalker

Kingdergrartens in Xinjiang rural region Aksu forces Uighur kids to wear cartoon animal suits


----------



## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> Kingdergrartens in Xinjiang rural region Aksu forces Uighur kids to wear cartoon animal suits



fake blogger video 

sorry not credible paid actors


----------



## beijingwalker

Giant harvewster and other machines are forced to work due to the bumper summer harvest in Xinjiang
Forced labor first hand





Girls from Urumqi decides to go to Southern Xinjiang for their summer vacation. the distance from Urumqi to Kashgar is over 1,000 kilometers, it takes over 2 hours by air.
For the students, summer vacation time is on. let's check out what southern Xinjiang is like now.


----------



## beijingwalker

*First Solar thermal power plant in Xinjiang started operation in Xinjiang desert,spectacular!*


----------



## beijingwalker

The temperature in a small desert town in Xinjiang goes up to 55 degrees celsius, a police officer passed out under this intense heat, many people stopped their cars to help this officer.


----------



## beijingwalker

Visit a small village in Altay Kazakh region in northern Xinjiang, the scenery is mind blowing, but a small wooden cabin will cost you 100USD per night.


----------



## beijingwalker

*Sayram Lake* (Chinese: 赛里木湖; pinyin: _Sàilǐmù hú_) is near the Tian Shan Mountains, Xinjiang, China.

In the Kazakh language Sayram means 'blessing'.

It is also known as Santai Haizi. It is the largest (458 km²) alpine lake in Xinjiang and also the highest (2,070 m).

"There is a touching love story about Sayram Lake. It is said that it was composed of the tears of a couple of Kazak young lovers. A beautiful girl and a young man were deeply in love. One day, a cruel devil was captivated by the girl's beauty. He captured the girl and confined her to his residence. The girl took a chance to escape, but the devil found out very soon and went after the girl. She was forced to jump into an abyss. Later, her boyfriend heard of this and he was so sad that he jumped into the abyss to be reunited with his lover. Their painful tears flooded into the abyss and formed Sayram Lake.


----------



## aziqbal

*The infamous 'tiger chair' which contorts prisoners' bodies... and women sterilised or raped: China's monstrous abuse of Uyghur Muslims is laid bare by author GEOFFREY CAIN who has interviewed dozens of victims*

The day Maysem was taken away for re-education, she was not given a chance even to take a change of clothes.

A phone message ordered her to report, like all Uyghur Muslim students in the Xinjiang region of north-west China, to the ‘street administration’ centre in Kashgar.

A local government officer told her that, because she had studied abroad, she needed to enrol for a month-long politics course. This was mandatory, and it began with immediate effect.






+6


A protest demonstration in Chinatown, San Francisco, California, USA. Since 2001, China has been waging its own ‘war on terror’, using extremism as an excuse to persecute the Uyghur Muslims





+6


The blindfolded and shackled detainees are from China's minority Uighur Muslims, according to a source. Video was posted anonymously on Twitter and YouTube
As she left the building, she recognised a woman from her apartment block — Mrs Ger, the designated ‘neighbourhood watcher’. Mrs Ger pulled her aside and said: ‘This isn’t my doing. Big changes are coming.’ Her voice was polite but menacing. Then Maysem was bundled into a car.



The young Chinese student, whose passion for reading had always worried her parents, knew that the ‘big changes’ had already begun. It was September 2016 and one week earlier a new governor had been appointed, Chen Quanguo. It was rumoured that he intended to crack down on the underground dissidents campaigning for political independence and greater freedom for Muslims. Protesters were being denounced as terrorists.
Maysem was an observant Muslim but her social science studies, which had taken her to university in Turkey, were her consuming interest. As she was ordered into the back of a car, to be taken to the re-education centre, her main concern was that this compulsory month-long course would put her return to Turkey and the start of her final year’s postgraduate education at risk.
It took only an hour to realise that the dangers ran much deeper than that. The car pulled up at a school outside the old city walls, but this school had soldiers in camouflage uniforms standing guard at the gates.
Inside were policemen in black carrying assault rifles and spiked, electric-shock batons.
Maysem was escorted from the vehicle to a pair of black iron doors where she was scanned with metal detectors. Above the entrance hung a sign: ‘The defence of our nation is the duty of every citizen.’
The doors slammed shut behind her. On one was a slogan: ‘I am a citizen. I love my country. I will make my nation great.’
She was ushered into a lobby with one receptionist and cameras in each corner of the room. Maysem began to explain that she had done nothing wrong, and asked why she had been brought here.

*SHARE THIS ARTICLE*
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‘Don’t ask questions. You sit and wait,’ snapped the receptionist.
Ten minutes later, a few dozen elderly, well-dressed men and women flooded in, escorted by guards. ‘What is the meaning of this?’ shouted an older woman wearing ostentatious jewellery.
‘Do you know who I am? My husband works for the vice-governor!’
Around ten officers in black SWAT uniforms stood at the front of the room. One announced the indoctrination sessions would run for six hours a day. Then he said: ‘We have a problem. This place is getting dirty. We have to clean up. Who wants to volunteer?’
He pulled Maysem out of the crowd. ‘You look like the youngest person here! You can wash the windows.’
When she protested that she was a student, not a cleaner, he asked her: ‘Do you have any important relatives?’ Then he summoned another officer and said: ‘Take her to the detention centre.’
After a short car journey, she was pushed through another set of steel doors and down a corridor — this one decorated with murals of Muslim girls cowering before a veiled teacher. On the opposite wall were happy Han Chinese women, leading a class of beaming children.





+6


Protesters gather outside the Parliament buildings in Ottawa, Ontario, ahead of a motion calling on Canada to recognise China's actions against ethnic Muslim Uighurs as genocide





+6


A Uyghur woman during a demonstration in Parliament Square, London, ahead of a House of Commons debate, bought by backbench MP Nus Ghani, on whether Uyghurs in China's Xinjiang province are suffering crimes against humanity
Maysem was led into a walled compound. In the middle stood a medieval apparatus built from wood, iron and leather straps. With a shiver of horror, she realised this was an infamous ‘tiger chair’.
It was around noon. A boiling August sun stood high in the sky. Ten guards surrounded her as she began to protest: ‘It’s a mistake, I shouldn’t be here, I’ve done nothing wrong, I come from a good family.’
‘Let’s show this bitch who’s boss,’ one of the guards said. Two of the men pushed her on the ground and pulled off her shoes. ‘Slut!’ the guards shouted. ‘Bitch! Whore!’
The guards picked Maysem up and dragged her to the chair. It forced her back upright, with her legs stretched along a bench at an excruciating, raised angle. Cuffs were fitted around her forearms and shins. ‘The discomfort was extreme. We had all heard of the tiger chair. That’s how they make an example of you, torturing you by contorting your body,’ she told me.
Other prisoners gathered round to watch. ‘They were like patients who’d recovered from the head trauma of a car crash and lost their personalities,’ she said. ‘They didn’t seem able to think, ask questions, show emotion or speak. They just watched me with an empty stare, and then they were herded away back into the building.’
The guards left Maysem in the sun until her skin reddened and burned. When they finally removed the straps, they ordered her to get on her feet. ‘You’re going to raise your arms and stand still for another few hours,’ said one.
He stood behind her with a baton. ‘You know what happens if you move,’ he told her.
‘How did I get here?’ she kept asking herself.
In Xinjiang, a region in north-west China whose nearest borders are with Kazakhstan, Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan and Pakistan, people call their dystopia ‘the Situation’.
The majority of the region’s population are Uyghurs (just under one per cent of China’s 1.4 billion population) and since 2017, an estimated 1.1 million of them — one in ten — have been accused by the government of harbouring ‘ideological viruses’ and ‘terrorist thoughts’, and taken away to hundreds of concentration camps. Once there, they are sentenced, without trial, to anything from a few months’ detention to seven or more years.
Many of the camps were repurposed high schools and other buildings, turned into detention centres for torture, brainwashing, and indoctrination.





+6


Chinese policemen push Uighur women who are protesting at a street on July 7, 2009 in Urumqi, the capital of Xinjiang Uighur autonomous region
It is the largest internment of ethnic minorities since the Holocaust. Thanks to strenuous efforts by the Chinese government to suppress all reports of the Situation, the outside world knows little of it. But over three years, up to September 2020, I interviewed 168 Uyghur refugees, technology workers, government officials, researchers, academics, activists, and a former Chinese spy who was preparing to defect. Some requested that I use pseudonyms if I published their interviews.
Their stories remained consistent down to fine details, in dates, places, addresses and names. Most of these details were verifiable on satellite imagery, in leaked Chinese state documents and in annual reports published online by Chinese corporations, and in my own observations and travels inside Xinjiang.
Even for those who don’t end up in a camp, daily life there is hellish. If you’re a woman, you might wake up every morning next to a stranger appointed by the government to replace your partner who has been ‘disappeared’ into a camp. The Chinese authorities maintain that when this happens, the men do not take advantage of the women.
Every morning before work, this minder will teach your family the state virtues of loyalty, ideological purity, and harmonious relations with the Communist Party.
He’ll check on your progress by asking you questions, ensuring you haven’t been ‘infected’ with what the government calls the ‘viruses of the mind’ and the ‘three evils’: terrorism, separatism, and extremism. After your morning indoctrination, you may hear a knock on the door. The local neighbourhood watch official, appointed by the state to keep an eye on a block of ten homes, will check your house for ‘irregularities,’ such as having more than three children or owning religious books. She might say that ‘the neighbours reported you’.
At noon each day, if you are female, you are required to take a government-mandated birth control pill. Still, you are one of the lucky ones: the government frequently summons female co-workers to a local clinic for mandatory sterilisation. The government says it wants to cut down on minority birth rates, claiming it will lead to prosperity.
If you drive to the petrol station or the grocery store to grab something for dinner, at each place you are required to scan your ID card at the entrance, in front of armed guards. A display next to the scanner flashes up the word ‘trustworthy,’ meaning the government has declared you a good citizen, and you will be permitted entry.
A person who receives the notification ‘untrustworthy’ is denied entry and, after a quick check of records, may face further problems. Maybe the facial recognition cameras caught him praying in a mosque. Or the cameras recorded him buying a six-pack of beer and the artificial intelligence (AI) system suspects he has an alcohol problem. He may never know the reason. But everyone knows that any little hiccup can cause the state to lower your trustworthy ranking.
Police officers approach and question him. They double-check his identity on their smartphones with a programme called the Integrated Joint Operations Platform, which consists of mass data gathered by the government on every citizen using millions of cameras, court records and citizen spies, all of it processed by AI.
Under the ‘predictive policing programme’, the AI determines he will commit a crime in the future and recommends sending him to a camp. The police officers take him away. He may return at some point after a period of re-education, or he may never be seen again.
If that happens to someone in the queue beside you or at work, it is best to take no notice. Someone else might report you, hoping for a reward from the government or a stronger trust ranking.
That evening, at home, your children tell you about the party virtues of patriotism and harmony they learned that day in school. You don’t argue over their lessons. The teacher told the students to report parents who didn’t agree with them.
After eating dinner and watching the evening news, in front of a government camera installed in the living room, you lie down in bed with your government minder. He has the power to do whatever he wants here in bed because he was sent by the state. If you resist his advances, he will invent an allegation and report you, and you will be sent to the camps.
Since 2001, China has been waging its own ‘war on terror’, using extremism as an excuse to persecute the Uyghur Muslims. During the past 20 years, this has escalated into a programme to erase their entire identity, culture and history, and to force the assimilation of millions of people.
‘You can’t uproot all the weeds hidden among the crops in the field one by one. You need to spray chemicals to kill them all,’ one official said in January 2018. ‘Re-educating these people is like spraying chemicals on the crops.’
As a young woman at college in Beijing, Maysem was never accepted as fully Chinese by her professors. She was pale-skinned and Uyghur, and thus foreign. Despite this, she earned high marks and even won permission to pursue a masters degree abroad, at Ankara in Turkey.
There, she adopted the Islamic veil — but when she announced she would continue to wear traditional Muslim dress on her return to China in 2014, her parents were horrified.
Instead, they urged her to wear bright reds and pinks that were regarded both as feminine and as symbolic of ‘good communist values’. They also expected her to smile at police officers. A smile and a bright red dress were the surest way to win acceptance.
But the red dress was not enough. While the family were staying at their holiday home in the country, a local party official knocked on the door. He had received reports from neighbours, he said, that their interior courtyard wall was painted light blue.
Blue was symbolic of the Uyghur independence movement. The fact that Maysem’s family did not even own a Uyghur flag was irrelevant. The courtyard had to be repainted — red, the trustworthy colour.





+6


People belonging to the Chinese Uyghur Moslem minority protest in Urumqi, China, in 2009
A few weeks later, Maysem’s mother answered the door to a group of policemen. Her daughter had been taken for re-education, they explained, ‘to cleanse her mind of ideological viruses’.
Her mother immediately began calling friends and contacts, pleading to get Maysem released or at least moved to a centre where she would have more lenient treatment. Eventually, she spoke to an aide to the city’s assistant mayor. ‘My daughter has not been charged with any crime,’ she pointed out.
The official was unconcerned. ‘Why is your daughter special?’ he asked. ‘We have to take care of 5,000 women in the centres. The orders come from the top, not from our office. It isn’t something we can control.’
Maysem shared a cell with about 20 women, watched over by two cameras. The space was about the size of a living room, so that the women stood almost shoulder to shoulder. Most of them stared blankly into space, in silence. ‘
I didn’t talk to them, and they didn’t talk to me,’ she said. ‘No one trusted anyone. The police appointed a cell boss, whose job was to manage the cell, watch the prisoners, and tell the guards if they broke any rules, like fighting with the other cellmates or not studying the propaganda hard enough.’
On the first night, Maysem couldn’t sleep. Next to her bunk bed was a bucket which the female prisoners used throughout the night. The stench was awful.
The alarm rang at 6am. Fluorescent lights went on and the women tumbled out of bed. After showering, they performed callisthenics and stretches while a female voice read instructions and propaganda over the loudspeakers.
‘Now stretch to the right! Stretch to the left! Hold! Repeat after me! Love our Chairman Xi Jinping! Love the Communist Party! Let us free ourselves of the viruses in our minds! We must all be good patriots!’
Then the prisoners were ordered to stand behind a line and bend their knees, ready to sprint. A female guard shouted ‘Go!’ and for one minute, the prisoners sprinted around the courtyard until they arrived at their prize: slices of mouldy bread laid out on plates on the ground. Those who ran too slowly got no breakfast.
The days were filled with indoctrination classes. In one, the teacher placed two water bottles on the desk. One was empty and one was full. ‘I say the full water bottle is full of water. I also think the empty bottle is full of water. What do you think?’
One student raised his hand and stood up: ‘Both water bottles are full!’ This was the ‘correct’ answer.
In another test, detainees sat down in front of two tables. On the left-hand table were scattered models of a house and a yard. On the right-hand table were miniature AK-47 assault rifles and a grenade.
Maysem was given no instructions. The teachers simply watched what she did. She worked out that the ‘correct’ response was to rearrange the model house, trees, and bushes into a lifelike domestic layout.
But if she touched the toy weapons, she failed the test. The bizarre logic was that only someone with terrorist tendencies would feel comfortable handling guns and grenades, even model ones.
The punishment for failure was a day or more in isolation, followed by a repeat of the test, until her thoughts were ‘harmonised’.
The guards told Maysem that, if her ‘infected mind’ was not cured, she would be sentenced to forced labour — the government’s solution to the national shortage of factory workers.
According to a report by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, more than 80,000 Uyghurs were transferred out of Xinjiang between 2017 and 2019, into labour programmes that benefited at least 83 Western companies — including Amazon, Adidas, Calvin Klein, Gap and Tommy Hilfiger.
Maysem’s mother continued to campaign for her daughter’s release, but the breakthrough came when Maysem was shown a propaganda video that included a face she recognised. One of her tutors from college in Beijing was in handcuffs.
His name was Ilham Tohti and seven years earlier, when Maysem was his student, he was a prominent economist and a respected Uyghur intellectual. He had since been sentenced to life imprisonment, accused of infecting the minds of the young. One by one, students in the video began to stand up and denounce him.
‘Professor Tohti was a terrorist who infiltrated our minds,’ declared one. ‘Now that I’m at a re-education centre, the Party is teaching me to cleanse my mind of Ilham Tohti’s virus.’
‘The three viruses of terrorism, extremism, and separatism once existed within me,’ proclaimed another student. ‘The virus was spreading, thanks to Professor Ilham Tohti. But the Party cured me. The Party set me on the right course.’
‘Love the Party! Love the country!’ they chanted. ‘Down with the scoundrel Ilham Tohti!’
Grasping what was expected of her, Maysem began to fill notebooks with declarations of remorse and contrition: ‘I have reflected on the teachings of the Party. I was wrong. The Party is great. The nation is great. The Party is my father and mother, and the Party has corrected me.’ Three days later, she was released. Now she could use her re-education to her advantage, to convince officials that her mind was purified — and that she could therefore resume her studies in Turkey.
Weeks of form-filling followed, as she presented endless documents to bureaucrats: ‘My birth certificate, housing registration, documents proving my attendance at my elementary school through university, even the death certificates of my grandmother and grandfather.’
Permission to fly was denied because she had not used her previous plane ticket. The officials did not care that she had missed that flight because she was in a detention centre. Eventually, she was allowed to board a bus for a four-day journey across the border into India. From there, she flew to Turkey.
For the next few weeks, Maysem exchanged messages with her parents, assuring them that she was safe and studying hard. Her mother sent back snippets of news, via the state-approved WeChat app. They were both careful to include suitably patriotic slogans in their messages, promising that they loved the Party and Chairman Xi.
One day, the tone of her mother’s messages changed. Maysem guessed at once that they were now being written by an official. She pleaded to know what had happened. The messages ceased. Maysem is now certain that both her parents are in a detention centre — and fears she will never see them again.










China's monstrous abuse of Uyghur Muslims laid bare by GEOFFREY CAIN


In Xinjiang, a region in north-west China whose nearest borders are with Kazakhstan, Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan and Pakistan, people call their dystopia 'the Situation'.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## aziqbal

*Uyghurs forced to sit on excruciating 'tiger chair' in Chinese torture camps - reports*
The Perfect Police State by Geoffrey Cain says China's AI cameras can flag anyone deemed "untrustworthy" for re-education with six-packs of beers alerting armed police to an 'alcoholic'







Buying a six-pack of beer can get you tortured on China's infamous Tiger Chair, a new book claims.


AI cameras can reportedly now send anyone deemed "untrustworthy" for re-education as Beijing achieves a real-life Minority Report.
A torture survivor described the "excruciating pain" as your knees are bent backwards on the chair which is allegedly used to torture detainees in Chinese labour and "re-education" camps.
The Uyghur Muslim and top Beijing university graduate and is among 168 interviewees in newly published book The Perfect Police State by Geoffrey Cain.
Her account of being tortured into submission is among those of "hellish life" outside the re-education camps in Xinjiang region in north-west China.
Its 1.1 million minority Uyghur Muslim population calls their inhumane treatment there "The Situation".
An extract from the book reads: "It is the largest internment of ethnic minorities since the Holocaust.

"Even for those who don’t end up in a camp, daily life there is hellish.

If you drive to the petrol station or the grocery store to grab something for dinner, at each place you are required to scan your ID card at the entrance, in front of armed guards.

"A person who receives the notification ‘untrustworthy’ is denied entry and, after a quick check of records, may face further problems. Maybe the facial recognition cameras caught him praying in a mosque.

"Or the cameras recorded him buying a six-pack of beer and the artificial intelligence (AI) system suspects he has an alcohol problem."






Barbed baton used in torturing Chinese Muslims (Image: BBC)*READ MORE*

Inside Vladimir Putin's 'torture dungeons' with electric shocks and penis clamps
The author wrote his book after three years' of interviews and travelling in Xinjiang.

Describing its "predictive policing programme", AI determines whether a person could commit a crime in the future and recommends sending them to a camp.

"After eating dinner and watching the evening news, in front of a government camera installed in the living room, you lie down in bed with your government minder," it added.






Uyghur Muslim detainees in China (Image: BBC)*READ MORE*

'Vile' dog meat festival where poor animals are boiled and burned alive begins
"He has the power to do whatever he wants here in bed because he was sent by the state. If you resist his advances, he will invent an allegation and report you, and you will be sent to the camps."

The Uyghur Muslim student, named Maysem, described in it the day she was taken away for re-education in September 2016 when freedom for Muslim protests were being called terror acts.

Maysem had returned from studying social sciences in Turkey wearing a veil.






Satellite images show Uyghur Muslims being rounded up (Image: TV GRABS /)*READ MORE*

Gruesome moment dad is publicly executed with AK-47 for murdering his own daughters
She said armed policemen escorted her to a camp with cameras in every room and covered in signs saying good citizens back the ruling Chinese Community Party.

A "well-dressed" woman donning jewelry was also taken in shouting: "Do you know who I am? My husband works for the vice-governor!"

She was taken to a detention centre after being singled out to clean the classroom and answering she wasn't a cleaner.






Three members of China's Uyghur minority found guilty of terror charges in a Indonesian court (Image: AFP/Getty Images)*READ MORE*

Tragic story of chimp they tried to 'turn into a human' by teaching him to smoke and drive
In the middle of a walled compound stood the wooden Tiger Chair with iron and leather straps China has assured the UN is actually no more than a comfy chair.

After being called a "slut" and "whore" by guards, the extract reads: "The guards picked Maysem up and dragged her to the chair. It forced her back upright, with her legs stretched along a bench at an excruciating, raised angle.


"Cuffs were fitted around her forearms and shins. ‘The discomfort was extreme. We had all heard of the tiger chair. That’s how they make an example of you, torturing you by contorting your body,’ she told me.

"Other prisoners gathered round to watch. ‘They were like patients who’d recovered from the head trauma of a car crash and lost their personalities,’ she said.

138257756518
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"‘They didn’t seem able to think, ask questions, show emotion or speak. They just watched me with an empty stare, and then they were herded away back into the building.’"

The account added that she was then ordered to stand still under the blistering August sun with her arms raised for hours, threatened with a baton beating if she lowered them.

China denies all allegations of human rights abuses against the Uyghurs, claiming the camps are used to combat Islamic militancy










Uyghurs forced to sit on excruciating 'tiger chair' in Chinese torture camps


The Perfect Police State by Geoffrey Cain says China's AI cameras can flag anyone deemed "untrustworthy" for re-education with six-packs of beers alerting armed police to an 'alcoholic'




www.dailystar.co.uk




.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

@waz @The Eagle @WebMaster @krash @Irfan Baloch @Foxtrot Alpha

There is already a pinned Xinjiang thread in this forum. Please merge all these troll threads courtesy of @aziqbal into that main thread please.





__





ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.


so what are all those buildings built between 2019-2021 in Xinjging with blue roofs? toy factories ? why did China not give access to Human right commissioner after 27 requests ? Genocide is now recognised by the international community and it will be referred to as such, a Genocide and ethnic...



defence.pk


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## beijingwalker

*AP accused of fabricating false report on Xinjiang*


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## beijingwalker

*Electricians work to ensure stable power supply for Xinjiang in China's largest desert*




* Experiencing four seasons in one day along Xinjiang's scenic highway*


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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> *Electricians work to ensure stable power supply for Xinjiang in China's largest desert*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Experiencing four seasons in one day along Xinjiang's scenic highway*



these people dont look like Ughurs ? they look like Han Chinese 

has the take over been completed or still some areas are left to the Ughurs?


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## beijingwalker




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## Globenim

beijingwalker said:


> Free food to the birds, a new Xinjiang policy...


BBC: CCP forcing swans to eat bread distributed by Han Chinese authorities disguised as native Uighurs for propaganda, after stealing the desert from swans.


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## beijingwalker

Uighur girl from rural Xinjiang village just graduated from college, now enjoying her last summer vacation with her friends in rural Xinjiang

Didn't expect they also used vulgar term "我操” as we do in Beijing and it's the girl who said it


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## beijingwalker

Hotan town in southern Xinjiang, can you imagine it is actually a desert town?


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## beijingwalker

How hot roadtrip tourism is in Xinjiang in summer, cars parked everywhere in XInjiang grassland.


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang's GDP increases 160 times in 65 years: white paper*
_Source: Xinhua_|_ 2021-07-14 10:15:47_|_Editor: huaxia_

BEIJING, July 14 (Xinhua) -- The gross domestic product (GDP) of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region increased about 160 times in 65 years, a white paper said Wednesday.

The document, titled "Respecting and Protecting the Rights of All Ethnic Groups in Xinjiang," was released by the State Council Information Office.

From 1955 to 2020, Xinjiang's GDP soared from 1.2 billion yuan to 1.4 trillion yuan, an increase of about 160 times at constant prices, according to the white paper.

Over the same period, per capita GDP of Xinjiang rose from 241 yuan to 53,593 yuan, growing about 30 times at constant prices, the white paper said. Enditem





__





Xinjiang's GDP increases 160 times in 65 years: white paper - Xinhua | English.news.cn






www.xinhuanet.com

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## RabzonKhan

*What America Owes the Uyghurs*

*A Plan for Stopping China’s Genocide *
*By Nury Turkel and Beth Van Schaack*
July 16, 2021






Protesting in Urumqi, Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, China, July 2009
David Gray / Reuters 


*There is a word for what is happening in the Xinjiang region of China: genocide. Chinese authorities have rounded up millions of Uyghurs and other minorities as part of their campaign of persecution and cultural eradication. Former detainees and prisoners report that they have suffered torture, rape, forced labor, and involuntary abortion and sterilization in state-run facilities. At least 800,000 children have been separated from their families. * 

The administration of U.S. President Joe Biden is on record declaring that the Chinese government’s actions amount to genocide. Democrats and Republicans in both houses of Congress have endorsed this horrifying conclusion, as did the Trump administration. *As a party to the Genocide Convention, the United States now has a legal and moral obligation to try to end these mass atrocities. The Biden administration has already made some important progress. It mobilized its allies to impose joint targeted sanctions on perpetrators in March, then secured an unprecedented commitment from the G-7 to address Uyghur forced labor in global supply chains in June. Yet more must be done.*

Given China’s global economic and political influence, it is easy to assume that there are few effective levers to influence its handling of human rights issues. But there are in fact many tools at the Biden administration’s disposal that will impose real costs on the perpetrators and enablers of these atrocities. Taken together, these steps would pressure Beijing to reverse course, offer humanitarian assistance to the Uyghur people, and ensure that American companies are not complicit in the abuses underway. *These measures would also confirm Biden’s pledge to place human rights at the center of his foreign policy and send a powerful message that the United States will not tolerate efforts to wipe out an entire ethnoreligious group.*

*A GENOCIDE UNFOLDS*
*The Chinese government justifies its policies in Xinjiang by asserting that it is threatened by what it calls “the three evil forces”—separatism, terrorism, and extremism. This propagandistic rhetoric is constructed to mask the fact that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) cannot tolerate any culture that interferes with total obedience to the state. That is why it has always been hostile to the Uyghurs, an ethnoreligious community that practices a moderate form of Sunni Islam and speaks a Turkic language similar to Uzbek or Turkish. The CCP sees the Uyghurs’ vibrant religious practices, unique culture, and ethnic pride as signs of disloyalty, sources of future unrest, and threats to national unity.*

Although Uyghurs have faced political repression since Mao Zedong first occupied their homeland in 1949, the campaign against them has escalated dramatically over the past decade. As leaked documents have revealed, the CCP in 2014 launched the so-called Strike Hard Campaign Against Violent Terrorism, which institutionalized restrictions on Uyghurs’ civil liberties and resulted in thousands of enforced disappearances. *It then unleashed a brutal set of “de-extremification measures” in early 2017, which involved the mass detention of Uyghurs, Kazakhs, and other Turkic Muslim groups in industrial-scale fortified camps. Individuals who engaged in Islamic religious practices—such as growing a beard, abstaining from alcohol, or wearing a headscarf—were the first targets. Those who had too many children, knew someone who had traveled abroad, or wrote or spoke about Uyghurs’ religious and cultural traditions also often found themselves in prison.

China initially denied the camps’ existence. Later, it described them as an attempt to “reeducate” people susceptible to extremism and to provide “vocational training” to the unemployed. Chinese officials rushed out ever more outrageous claims as international criticism of the camps mounted: they said that the government aimed to “transform” Uyghurs into “normal” human beings, that Uyghurs are the “happiest Muslims in the world,” and that Uyghur women have been liberated from being “baby-making machines.”

According to a Chinese government white paper, at least 1.3 million Uyghurs and others have been subjected to “reeducation” since 2015. The children of these detainees, meanwhile, have been placed in state-run boarding schools where they are indoctrinated with pro-CCP propaganda and punished for speaking a word of the Uyghur language.*


The implications of this genocide extend far beyond Xinjiang. Chinese authorities have used the Uyghur population to hone some of the world’s most intrusive surveillance technology. The CCP systematically collects Uyghurs’ biometric data through medical examinations, passport applications, and police checkpoints. The information is then fed into an automated system that can flag individuals who deviate in any way from government-sanctioned conduct, subjecting them to potential investigation and detention. *China has now exported this authoritarian technology to over 80 countries across the globe, including Venezuela and Zimbabwe.

The camps’ captive sources of labor have infected global supply chains with the awful taint of slavery. According to the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, the U.S. Congressional-Executive Commission on China, and reporting in The Wall Street Journal, more than 80 global brands—including household names such as Nike, Gap, Hugo Boss, Volkswagen, Heinz, and Campbell Soup—source their goods from Chinese manufacturers that are suspected of engaging in human trafficking.* Companies, alongside the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, have lobbied against legislation in the United States that would prohibit these practices. These companies claim they have deployed third-party auditors to verify that their supply chains are free of forced labor. Major independent auditors, however, have refused to work in Xinjiang, citing the prevalence of forced labor and their inability to conduct genuine inspections given ubiquitous surveillance and constraints.

*Even though the evidence of these crimes against humanity is incontrovertible, the international community’s response has been lackluster. Many governments, unwilling to risk antagonizing Beijing, continue to prefer inaction. The United States, by virtue of its economic and diplomatic weight, is uniquely positioned to mobilize global action to impose costs on China for its disregard of international norms.*

The Biden administration has already pledged to hold China accountable for this ongoing human rights catastrophe. The tone of the administration’s approach was set during Antony Blinken’s confirmation hearing, in which the incoming U.S. secretary of state endorsed the determination of his predecessor, Mike Pompeo, that the Chinese government was perpetrating a genocide. *Soon after Blinken was sworn in, the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the European Union imposed coordinated sanctions against several officials and entities responsible for perpetrating genocidal acts against the Uyghur people. These represented the first European sanctions against Beijing since the imposition of an arms embargo in response to the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre.*

The Biden administration is now positioned to escalate pressure on China. It should launch additional diplomatic efforts to rally support from U.S. allies and partners, enhance its humanitarian response, implement additional sanctions and visa restrictions, and spearhead efforts to ensure that products made with forced labor do not infect the U.S. and global markets. To coordinate these efforts, it should appoint a high-level envoy within the National Security Council or the State Department.

*HOLDING BEIJING ACCOUNTABLE*
*On the diplomatic front, Blinken should immediately request to visit Xinjiang. This move would hold both symbolic and strategic importance: a historic visit by a top American diplomat would spotlight the Chinese government’s international crimes, demonstrate the U.S. government’s commitment to improving the lives of the Uyghurs, and lay the groundwork for further international coordination. Such a trip would also send a message to neighboring countries and Turkey that they must provide safe haven to Uyghur refugees and migrants despite intense Chinese pressure to forcibly deport these citizens.*

T*he Biden administration should assemble a coalition to request a special session of the UN Human Rights Council, the international body charged with promoting human rights, to address China’s crimes. China has stonewalled UN requests for unfettered access to Xinjiang for three years. It is time for the UN to launch a formal investigation*—as it has done for Syria and Myanmar—to build on the copious evidence already available. Even when China inevitably refuses access, much can be done from outside the country using open-source investigative techniques and new technology platforms.

Blinken could also organize a “friends of the Uyghurs” summit to build support among U.S. allies and signatories to the Genocide Convention. At this forum, countries could coordinate their responses to the ongoing genocide, particularly when it comes to humanitarian assistance, human rights documentation, and trade restrictions. It could also bring greater attention to the abuses underway. The United States should particularly encourage Muslim-majority states—which have been conspicuously silent about China’s persecution of Uyghurs—to speak out against Beijing’s crimes.

U.S. policy toward China must also aim to alleviate the humanitarian plight facing the Uyghur people. The U.S. government should designate Uyghurs as eligible for “P-2” status to fast-track refugee resettlement claims. Uyghurs who are already in the United States should be granted Temporary Protected Status, which would enable them to remain and work lawfully in the United States while it is impossible for them to return home.

In keeping with the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act, a 2020 law designed to coordinate federal action on abuses in Xinjiang, the Biden administration should demand that China release family members of Uyghur Americans from the camps. It should also insist that Beijing cease the systematic harassment and imprisonment of those with relatives serving in entities connected to the U.S. government. More than half of the Uyghur reporters working for the congressionally funded Radio Free Asia, for example, have lost family members to the camps. In addition, the United States should underwrite psychosocial rehabilitation within diaspora communities to address the trauma experienced by Uyghurs who have survived enforced disappearances, detention, and persecution or have witnessed such attacks on their loved ones. And to counteract China’s efforts at cultural erasure, Washington should support Uyghur cultural and religious institutions in the diaspora. 

These diplomatic efforts should be bolstered by rigorous documentation of the Chinese government’s abuses—efforts that are required by law under the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act but are now months overdue. The administration should move swiftly to compile comprehensive dossiers on perpetrators to lay the groundwork for additional measures of accountability, including potential criminal cases.

Although some Chinese officials will inevitably remain beyond the reach of the law, others could well fall within the jurisdiction of U.S. courts, foreign courts, or international tribunals. The U.S. Genocide Act, for example, grants American courts extraterritorial jurisdiction over genocide if the perpetrator is “present in” the United States. For this reason, the U.S. government must better understand the backgrounds of Chinese officials who step foot on American soil, as well as the businesspeople and companies facilitating the Uyghur genocide by knowingly importing products manufactured with forced labor.

Although the prosecutor’s office at the International Criminal Court has said it lacks sufficient jurisdiction to open an investigation into China’s abuses, other international bodies could still hold Beijing accountable. China has ratified several human rights treaties that maintain expert bodies with the authority to comment on violations of their terms. These include the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination; the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; the Convention Against Torture; and the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women. Because the United States is also a party to the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, it can and should initiate a state complaint against China and encourage that convention’s committee to activate its “urgent action procedure,” which would empower it to conduct an independent investigation to document treaty violations.

*APPLYING ECONOMIC PRESSURE*
U.S. sanctions should be expanded to include the key architects of China’s policy in Xinjiang, as well as those implementing it on the ground. To be sure, some of the latter are unlikely to travel internationally or to hold funds within reach of the U.S. banking system. Nonetheless, the mere act of being sanctioned by the United States sends a powerful message: it names and shames perpetrators so they cannot enjoy the privilege of anonymity, isolates abusers so they cannot fund or profit from their depredations, and expresses solidarity with victims and survivors.

*Coordinated sanctions are key to shutting down industries that are raking in profits by exploiting Uyghur forced labor. Virtually the entire solar power supply chain, for example, relies on material from Xinjiang, produced by Chinese companies that are implicated in these abuses. The White House took an important step in late June when it banned solar products made by a Chinese company involved in state-organized forced labor from entering the United States and tightened restrictions on U.S. companies’ ability to export to five Xinjiang-based companies.* These moves make it clear to the private sector that there are high regulatory risks associated with continuing to source from or to Chinese companies. They should also spur the U.S. government to develop a strategy for achieving its green agenda without underwriting human rights abuses. 

As U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai testified during her confirmation hearing, “The use of forced labor is probably the crudest example of the ‘race to the bottom’ in global trade.” Measures to prevent certain products from entering the United States were designed to deter atrocities just like the ones unfolding in Xinjiang and ensure that U.S. companies are not purveyors of enslavement and tyranny abroad. The Biden administration should now double down on enforcement of its current policies and support new laws to ensure that American companies are not complicit in the crimes being committed against the Uyghurs.

*A key step in establishing greater safeguards would be passage of the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act, which is under consideration in Congress. *The act would establish a presumption, absent a certification by U.S. Customs and Border Protection, that all goods produced in Xinjiang are made with forced labor. It would expand on piecemeal enforcement tactics focused on specific products and suppliers.

*Congress should also ensure that no American is profiting from the construction of the open-air digital prison engulfing Xinjiang. Legislators should bar U.S. persons from holding stock in Chinese tech companies that are implementing the Xinjiang surveillance network, including those providing artificial intelligence and facial recognition services. Numerous publicly traded Chinese tech companies are included in emerging-market indexes held by public pension funds, university endowments, individual retirement plans, and investment portfolios. It is time to exclude these companies from U.S. capital markets.*

Finally, the 2022 Winter Olympics, scheduled to be held in Beijing, represent a unique and potent point of leverage over China. In 2008, when China hosted the Summer Olympics, the government violated explicit promises to respect press freedom and allow peaceful assembly during the games. Instead, it engaged in rampant human rights abuses, forcibly evicting residents to make way for construction projects and tightening its control over speech and assembly. At the time, the world remained silent; U.S. President George W. Bush even attended the opening ceremony. History must not be allowed to repeat itself.

The Chinese government has, through its own actions, made the Beijing Olympics into a referendum on the Uyghur genocide. The world’s athletes should not be expected to compete against the backdrop of concentration camps. Washington and like-minded governments should at a minimum organize a diplomatic boycott of the Olympics. If the situation in Xinjiang does not improve, this coalition should find a way to relocate the event. Such steps would deflate the Chinese government’s narrative that its status as host of the Olympics signifies that it is a law-abiding nation enjoying the world’s admiration.

*DO THE RIGHT THING*
*Nobody should be under any illusion that it will be easy to alter the Chinese government’s behavior in Xinjiang. Beijing is unlikely to ever admit it is feeling the heat of international pressure or changing its policies toward the Uyghur people. But that does not mean all efforts are in vain: if a strong U.S. response is properly coordinated with others in the international community, it will help alleviate the profound suffering of millions of Uyghurs, take a substantial toll on China’s bottom line, and ensure that the United States and its allies are not inadvertently underwriting the CCP’s genocidal campaign.*

It would also send the message that the world is ready to impose tangible costs on those who would attempt to wipe out an entire ethnoreligious group. The United States did right by describing the appalling atrocities against the Uyghurs as genocide. Now the Biden administration must organize a meaningful international response. The Uyghur people deserve nothing less.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

*Kashgar, southern Xinjiang. How locals enjoy their life in summer night, everyone is on the streets*


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## beijingwalker

Gimpse inside Xinjiang's re education camps


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## silverox

beijingwalker said:


> *Xinjiang's GDP increases 160 times in 65 years: white paper*
> _Source: Xinhua_|_ 2021-07-14 10:15:47_|_Editor: huaxia_
> 
> BEIJING, July 14 (Xinhua) -- The gross domestic product (GDP) of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region increased about 160 times in 65 years, a white paper said Wednesday.
> 
> The document, titled "Respecting and Protecting the Rights of All Ethnic Groups in Xinjiang," was released by the State Council Information Office.
> 
> From 1955 to 2020, Xinjiang's GDP soared from 1.2 billion yuan to 1.4 trillion yuan, an increase of about 160 times at constant prices, according to the white paper.
> 
> Over the same period, per capita GDP of Xinjiang rose from 241 yuan to 53,593 yuan, growing about 30 times at constant prices, the white paper said. Enditem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xinjiang's GDP increases 160 times in 65 years: white paper - Xinhua | English.news.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.xinhuanet.com


I hate this kind of comparison the most. There is such a line in Chinese movies in the 1980s. Why not compare with primitive society? The movie at that time criticized this situation of comparing everything with 1949.


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## beijingwalker

Vlogger came across an Uighur wedding in China-Kazakhstan border town Ili. Both sides of Ili river now had been built into public parks, many young people choose to have their wedding by the Ili river now.


In the end the vlogger asked some girls if they can speak Mandarin, what shocked her is the girls can even speak the vlogger's home province dialect in northeast China. The Uighur girls told the vlogger the wedding group just stopped by the river after they picked up the bride and on the way to the real wedding reception, they stopped by this river park to take some photos.


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## beijingwalker

Beautiful Ili Kazakh prefecture in Northern Xinjiang


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## beijingwalker

Local People set up food and snack stalls outside their yards during the summer tourist peak season in small border town Ili. Check out how Han traditional food "zongzi" is served by locals, they add their traditional yogurt into "zongzi". 
Tourism is becoming the pillar of the town's economy and livelihood.




Vlogger came across an ongoing wedding dance party in a northern Xinjiang small town

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## beijingwalker

*Kids from Ili sing to praise their hometown Ili river valley




*

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## beijingwalker

Tourists swarm Xinjiang, roads are overwhelmed by road trip takers, traffic jams stretch tens of miles even in the mountains and countryside


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## beijingwalker

Road trip takers are everywherre in Xinjiang during the summer time, many local villagers set up food and snack stand along the rural roads. Tourist asked how much money a guy selling roast fish by the road can make. 30,000 Yuan ($ 4,700) per month.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

Tourists are swarming Xinjiang. how many lamb skewers a small roadside joint to sell a day? 9,000 skewers a day, 4 Yuan ( $0.63). that means 36,000 Yuan, $5600/day

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## xuxu1457




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## beijingwalker

Tajik soldier from Xinjiang in PLA fighting flood in Henan province


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## beijingwalker

Hami city in Xinjiang sent 1 million Na'ans to Henan province to help the province fighting the flood.


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## beijingwalker

*More Xinjiang Lies + a Closer Look at China’s Infrastructure*



> This week we talk about the Associated Press’ smear piece on China’s security policies in Xinjiang province - a smear piece that contradicts its own reporting from 2017 when Xinjiang constituted a threat to not only China’s national security, but global security. We also go in-depth on China’s infrastructure and how Beijing’s approach differs from the West - what it means for China and what it means for China’s Belt & Road partners.
Click to expand...


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## beijingwalker

How's life in very remote Xinjiang rural villages, everyone has nice cars and food is very cheap and delicious


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## beijingwalker

Tourism becomes the main pillar of the local economy of the China Pakistan border town Tashkurgan in Pamir plateua


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## beijingwalker

*Expansion of Kashgar International Airport in full swing*

Expansion of Kashgar International Airport in Kashgar, northwest China's Xinjiang, is in full swing. The project is expected to be completed by the end of this year.


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## Slav Defence

Dungeness said:


> When religion comes in play, some Pakistanis may not be as "Iron Brothers" as we thought they were. Post#2 may give you a hind? And he is not alone.


This is exactly what these fake accounts wanted and you are exactly making their job super easy.

Good luck

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## beijingwalker

How Xinjiang grows fresh vegetables in the middle of the desert


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## beijingwalker

Laotian girl and her Chinese husband travel in Xinjiang

Laotian girl who married a Chinese guy travels in Xinjiang with her Chinese husband, she was amazed by how people look in this multicultural Chinese western frontier.


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## beijingwalker

A girl visits Kashgar oldtown, a preserved oldcity quater, on the ground of one alley it shows the spot is 692 kilometers from Islamabad


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## beijingwalker

How kids living in the desert region in Xinjiang manage to beat the summer heat


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## beijingwalker

*Swan and Pear blossom city Korla in Xinjiang, paradise oasis in the desert*


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## beijingwalker

A Han Chinese college girl challenges netizens to remember the names of her classmates in Xinjiang, no Han Chinese can remember those long exotic names...


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## beijingwalker

*How Does Dilraba Dilmurat Live and How Much Does She Earn*


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## beijingwalker

*How Xinjiang transformed Shanty towns into modern cities in just one decade*

From shantytown to bright, spacious home: Some once-impoverished residents in Korla in China's Xinjiang are embracing a new life thanks to the renovation projects launched by the local government.

Xinjiang speed, China speed!


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## beijingwalker

City folks enjoy their nightlife and markets in Xinjiang, how about rural villages? how rural villagers spend their summer nights in Xinjiang rural regions? actually they too have village night market, which are also pretty enjoyable.


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## beijingwalker

*Amazed that “The Kite Runner” was actually filmed in Xinjiang, Chinese netizens poke fun at US*
By Global TimesPublished: Aug 19, 2021 08:07 PM






Kashgar residents enjoy leisure time. 

As the Taliban’s takeover of Afghanistan draws global attention, Chinese netizens were amazed to find that _The Kite Runner_, a famous film about Afghanistan, was actually filmed in Northwest China’s Xinjiang region.

Chinese netizens were also swift to catch the irony, as the US has never stopped attacking China’s Xinjiang policy, but the reality has shown just the opposite, as the US’ “democratic reform” in Afghanistan failed miserably, while Xinjiang residents live in peace and prosperity.

_The Kite Runner_, written by Afghan-American author Khaled Hosseini, tells the story of a boy named Amir from Kabul as he navigates the world around him. A world mired in events that stretch from the fall of Afghanistan’s Monarchy through the Soviet intervention, to the exodus of refugees to Pakistan and the US and the rise of the Taliban. 

Chinese netizens recently found out that the movie, which was adapted from the novel, was actually filmed in China’s Xinjiang region, probably due to unstable security conditions in Afghanistan at that time. 

A netizen named ‘Daxiangjunshi’ commented, “How ironic! The movie cannot be filmed in Afghanistan as the US is fighting a war in the country. The movie is filmed in China’s Xinjiang to ‘restage’ the harmoniousness in Kabul but the US is currently racking its brains to smear the region.”

Some netizens posted pictures and videos of Kashi residents’ peaceful lives, including children happily chasing each others in residential areas. 

“Compared with the Afghan people who are in a war-torn homeland, people in Kashi – a place that is less than 300 kilometers away from Kabul -- are living happily and peacefully!” A netizen named “Liziba” wrote. 

Another netizen named ‘jinghexian’ wrote that “The US will never succeed in destroying our happy lives in Xinjiang region like they did in Afghanistan or other places by spreading lame lies as ‘forced labor’ or ‘genocide!’” 









Amazed that “The Kite Runner” was actually filmed in Xinjiang, Chinese netizens poke fun at US - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn

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## beijingwalker

A Xinjiang Uighur girl talks about the Afghan movie "The Kite Runner", Afghanistan and Xinjiang


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## beijingwalker

*Small border town in N.Xinjiang full of Baroque style architecture*

An unheard of small border town in Northern Xinjiang Kazak region is filled with Baroque style buildings, it makes you feel like you are somewhere in Europe. What also amazed the tourist is that this small border town next to Kazakstan and Russia is also very tourist friendly, even public bathrooms are like 5 star hotels. Fuyun County(Chinese: 富蕴县） as the official romanized name, also transliterated from Uyghur as Koktokay County. It is a county situated in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region and is under the administration of the Altay Prefecture.






*Demographics*


The proportion of nationalitiesNationalityPercentageKazakhs74.0%Han People20.9%Hui People2.1%Uyghurs1.9%Mongols0.3%Others0.8%


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## beijingwalker

I believe I know many Xinjiang cities and towns, but this one is really unheard of... maybe because it's too small and too remote.
See the population proportion in this town, not every town and village is dominated by Uighurs, most towns and villages in northern Xinjiang close to Kazakstan are predominantly Kazakhs.


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## beijingwalker

*Visit government provided houses to local Tajiks in Pamir Plateau in Xinjiang*

Visit government provided houses to local Tajiks in Pamir Plateau in Xinjiang. This Pamir region is the only Chinese territory that borders 3 different countries, Pakistan, Tajikstan and Afghanistan. The alpine terrain is extremely harsh but these Chinese government provided houses are very beautiful with all modern facilities and equipment. The guest is very impressed by these beautiful houses surrounded by the nearby snow mountains, what a sight to behold!


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang desert town Aksu*
Xinjiang desert town Aksu Aksu City is divided into two non-contiguous areas. The northern area is inhabited and the southern area is in the Taklamakan Desert. Aksu has a cold desert climate (Köppen climate classification BWk) with extreme seasonal variation in temperature. The monthly 24-hour average temperature ranges from −7.2 °C (19.0 °F) in January to 24.1 °C (75.4 °F), and the annual mean is 10.83 °C (51.5 °F). Precipitation totals only 80.6 mm (3.17 in) annually.







Billions of dollars worth Xinjiang water diversion project makes the city have more than enough water now


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## beijingwalker

*Ghost university in the middle of nowhere? Xinjiang medical university Snow Lotus Mountain campus*


Xinjiang medical university Snow Lotus Mountain campus. This new campus is located in a small basin surrounded by snow mountains. it's a newly developed area. The investment for this new campus alone is ￥4.5 billion Yuan ( $700 Million） 

Western media may again call this new development zone an university theme ghost town in Xinjiang... China is churning out GHOST TOWNS on daily basis


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## beijingwalker

*How Xinjiang high school students remember their campus life and celebrate their graduation*
Unforgetful happy teen years and being thankful to the teachers and parents for helping growing up


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## beijingwalker

*Small border town Burqin, where China meets both Russia and Mongolia*


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang small town Tumxuk*


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang small town Yuli ( Lopnur )*


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang small town Wenquan county (Arixang County) and its wetland park*


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## beijingwalker

Western powers accuse China 24/7 non stop of turning Xinjiang into a hell on earth, hopefully more people will come to visit this beautiful hell 

Xinjiang's breathtakingly beautiful landscapes and unrivaled world class infrastructure can easily put all western countries to shame.


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## beijingwalker

*Small border town Khorgas in N.Xinjiang sitting next to Kazakhstan*


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## beijingwalker

Karamay, a man made oasis city in the desert in Xinjiang via water diversion, Water from The Irtysh river was partly diverted here in the middle of the desert for this new city.


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## beijingwalker

Small Kazakh border town Tacheng in N. Xinjiang


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## K_Bin_W

Beautiful!!! BTW western propaganda has died lately I wonder why west is not foaming at mouth as much... Not that their garb makes any difference. Well done China..

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## Surya 1

Uighur concentration camp in Xinjiang.


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## beijingwalker

Surya 1 said:


> View attachment 780050
> 
> 
> Uighur concentration camp in Xinjiang.


Does India not have any prisons? how do you know this is not a prison but a concentration camp? Concentration camps put both men and women together and how come these people are all men? 
West makes lies and low IQ Indians believe whatever their master westerners feed them. If Xinjiang put a whole bunch of the population in camps, how come Xinjiang can develop this fast? You Indians won't reach Xinjiang's development level in your life time.


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## beijingwalker

Shihezi is a sub-prefecture-level city in Northern Xinjiang


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang small city Changji in N. Xiniang*
Changji is a county-level city in N.Xinjiang


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang Hami town, old quarter, perserved area after renovation*
China tries the best to protect the old traditional local architecture on the basis that safety must be guaranteed. These old mud houses all had been rebuilt with steel and concrete to make sure they are earthquake resistant.


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## beijingwalker

Shanghai engineers sent to Xinjiang villages to demolish Uyghur homes 

Shanghai Xinjiang flush toilets projects Engineers from Shanghai were sent to Xinjiang rural villages by the central government to help the locals to rebuild their homes. 
Old villgers homes were all mud made, rain and wind can easily destroy them and hurt even kill the villagers inside.
Shanghai engineer were sent to demolish those houses and build earthquake proof houses for the local villagers, one task for them is to make sure that every household has indoor flush toilets, so the local's health and hygiene can be improved greatly. 
All the costs were covered by the Shanghai government, so the local villagers can be free of money burden moving into these new homes.

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## Surya 1

beijingwalker said:


> Does India not have any prisons? how do you know this is not a prison but a concentration camp? Concentration camps put both men and women together and how come these people are all men?
> West makes lies and low IQ Indians believe whatever their master westerners feed them. If Xinjiang put a whole bunch of the population in camps, how come Xinjiang can develop this fast? You Indians won't reach Xinjiang's development level in your life time.



Because I have never seen such a large number of people togather jailed collevtively who are not criminals.


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## beijingwalker

Surya 1 said:


> Because I have never seen such a large number of people togather jailed collevtively who are not criminals.


Then you should spend more time in jail, all prisons have large member of criminals.but maybe not in your beloved India.


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## Surya 1

beijingwalker said:


> Then you should spend more time in jail, all prisons have large member of criminals.but maybe not in your beloved India.



For that, I need to co.e to China and speak to Human rights of Uighurs. Not I will be jailed but I will be hanged by Xi's goons.


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## beijingwalker

Surya 1 said:


> For that, I need to co.e to China and speak to Human rights of Uighurs. Not I will be jailed but I will be hanged by Xi's goons.


Even the poorest villagers in Xinjiang have nice homes and flush toilets, you Indian guys are just so used to do it in the open so the cleanliness won't be accustomed by Indians, stay in your own shiny India.


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## Surya 1

beijingwalker said:


> Even the poorest villagers in Xinjiang have nice homes and flush toilets, you Indian guys are just so used to do it in the open so the cleanliness won't be accustomed by Indians, stay in your own shiny India.



But they have to live in jain like the cattle. Those toilets with flush will be used by Chinese police who are sent sleep with wives of Uighurs who are kept in prison.


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## beijingwalker

Surya 1 said:


> But they have to live in jain like the cattle. Those toilets with flush will be used by Chinese police who are sent sleep with wives of Uighurs who are kept in prison.


They live a way better and long life than your Indians, their life expectancy is 75, how about your Indians?


Surya 1 said:


> But they have to live in jain like the cattle. Those toilets with flush will be used by Chinese police who are sent sleep with wives of Uighurs who are kept in prison.


They live a way better and long life than your Indians, their life expectancy is 75, how about your Indians?


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## S10

Surya 1 said:


> Because I have never seen such a large number of people togather jailed collevtively who are not criminals.


Look at all these innocent people India put in jail. Such tragedy. Hey have you managed to build yourself a toilet yet? You should stop drinking gomutra for a second and get started.




*



*


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## Surya 1

S10 said:


> Look at all these innocent people India put in jail. Such tragedy. Hey have you managed to build yourself a toilet yet? You should stop drinking gomutra for a second and get started.
> View attachment 780228
> 
> *
> View attachment 780229
> *



In India, nobody is put in jail for being muslim like China..They are put is jail for crime.


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## beijingwalker

Surya 1 said:


> In India, nobody is put in jail for being muslim like China..They are put is jail for crime.


What crimes do these toddlers in the photos committed?









India: guiltless children in prison


More than 1800 children languish in Indian jails with their imprisoned mothers, often as a consequence of bureaucratic incompetence.




www.lowyinstitute.org


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## Surya 1

beijingwalker said:


> What crimes do these toddlers in the photos committed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India: guiltless children in prison
> 
> 
> More than 1800 children languish in Indian jails with their imprisoned mothers, often as a consequence of bureaucratic incompetence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.lowyinstitute.org



First of all, In India, nobody bellow the age of 18 is sent to jail. so get lost. It is China only where the people are sent to jail for being muslim and their dives are used as sex slaves for Chinese police.


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## beijingwalker

Surya 1 said:


> First of all, In India, nobody bellow the age of 18 is sent to jail. so get lost. It is China only where the people are sent to jail for being muslim and their dives are used as sex slaves for Chinese police.


Google and find out how many underage inmates in India, child labor and child marriage is common place in India, many are born Dalits who will never have any rights as a human, India is a truly hell on earth.

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## S10

Surya 1 said:


> In India, nobody is put in jail for being muslim like China..They are put is jail for crime.


Sounds like excuses for putting innocent people in jail.

I guess you still haven't built that toilet because you're spilling shit here.

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## beijingwalker

*Bole* as the official romanized name, also transliterated from Mongolian as *Bortala*, is a county-level town in Xinjiang, China. Bortala means "brown grasslands/steppe" in Mongolian.


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## beijingwalker

*Sayram ** Lake, Xinjiang, China（The Last Tear of the Atlantic)*


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## beijingwalker

*White paper debunks conspiracy theories against Xinjiang: Pakistani expert*


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## beijingwalker

What sheep farmers feed their sheep in Xinjiang? You won't believe it. Dates


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## beijingwalker

How big is China? Let's measure it by time but not distance, in Kashgar old town, it's still full day time at around 10pm Beijing time.


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## beijingwalker

What shopping malls are like in China's westernmost city Kashgar?

The young couple go to a shopping mall in Kashgar to watch a movie, the girl says she dosen't feel any difference between Kashgar and Chinese coastal cities now, the development levels are very similar now.


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## beijingwalker

Now almost every student can go to college in Xinjiang, and not only cities but also rural regions, Xinjiang set up many colleges in rural regions and made it very convenient for village students to go to college, this is a village girl in her college in rural Xinjiang and her daily student routines.


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## beijingwalker

With the construction of bridges and paved roads, traffic conditions have improved significantly in Makit County in Xinjiang


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang Urumqi makes water boulevard across the city to help the residents to beat the summer heat


----------



## Uncensored

EXCLUSIVE - The Xinjiang region is a landlocked, sandy corner in northwest China where for centuries a history and culture has flourished among people living on the edge of the vast Taklamakan Desert. 

But Chinese authorities have locked up more than a million people in fortified detention centres in the area. 

The Telegraph criss-crossed Xinjiang over nine days to investigate China’s crackdown on the Uyghurs.

In this video series, we examine what’s happening now on the ground in Xinjiang. 

Part 1 above focuses on the culture erasure of the Uyghurs: how Beijing has begun erasing the rich cultural and religious heritage in Xinjiang to force the group to become more ‘Chinese’. 

Part 2 focuses on the use of internment camps and an intensive propaganda campaign to create a more docile region - watch it here: https://youtu.be/4w3_A2vRGqE 

Part 3 explains the challenges Sophia faced as a journalist in Xinjiang, where she was assaulted, intimidated and harassed - watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LLMS... 

Read more here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021...


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## Clutch

Lol... There was nothing!... No evidence of any so-called ethnic cleansing!... A old woman sweeping, someone renovated a mosque... And some sand! ... Lol.

Fake news.

Show me something I can believe in!

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## Uncensored

Clutch said:


> Lol... There was nothing!... No evidence of any so-called ethnic cleansing!... A old woman sweeping, someone renovated a mosque... And some sand! ... Lol.
> 
> Fake news.
> 
> Show me something I can believe in!



So you watched all 3 parts and read the article in a few seconds?


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## beijingwalker




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## Hamartia Antidote

Just too many people involved to keep things hushed up forever. People are starting to talk.









A whistleblower detective in China describes the torture methods used to get Uyghurs to 'confess'


Tactics included hanging detainees from the ceiling, electrocutions, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, starvation, and sexual abuse, he said.




www.businessinsider.com






A former detective detailed the torture tactics used on ethnic Uyghurs in China's Xinjiang region.
Among them: Electrocutions, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, starvation, and sexual abuse, he said.
The Biden administration this year called China's actions "genocide and crimes against humanity."

A Chinese former detective who worked in the Xinjiang region told CNN in an interview published Tuesday about some of the torture tactics he and other detectives used on individuals detained in the Xinjiang region.

The torture tactics against ethnic Uyghurs included shackling detainees to a chair designed to immobilize them called the "tiger chair," hanging them from the ceiling, electrocutions, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, starvation, and sexual violence, he told the news organization.

The man was only identified by CNN as Jiang over fears the Chinese government would retaliate against his family still living in China, according to the outlet. The interview was conducted in Europe where Jiang currently lives in exile, CNN reported.

Jiang said he had been deployed to several areas of Xinjiang about "three or four" times while he was a detective as part of China's "Strike Hard" campaign that targeted ethnic minorities, according to CNN. He was deployed to the region several times over the course of several years, per the CNN report.

Every detainee was beaten during the interrogation process, he said, including children as young as 14, he told CNN.

"Kick them, beat them (until they're) bruised and swollen," he said. "Until they kneel on the floor crying."

In April, the human-rights organization Human Rights Watch released a 53-page report on China, detailing incarceration, torture, disappearances, and cultural erasure of ethnic Uyghurs in Xinjiang, as Insider previously reported. The Biden administration a month earlier imposed sanctions on the Chinese government for what it called "genocide and crimes against humanity in Xinjiang."

"Everyone uses different methods. Some even use a wrecking bar or iron chains with locks," Jiang told CNN. "Police would step on the suspect's face and tell him to confess."

*He said he believed none of the people were guilty of the terrorism-related offenses they were accused of by the Chinese government.*

"*They are ordinary people,*" he told CNN.

But the torture ended only after the people confessed, he said. Then, they were transferred to prisons or internment camps, he told CNN. The Chinese police were given quotas on how many Uyghurs to detain, he said.

Sometimes, police would ask local leaders to call entire communities together only for them all to be arrested in large groups, according to CNN. Around 900,000 Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities were detained in one year, he said.

"It's all planned, and it has a system," Jiang said. "Everyone needs to hit a target."

If a person refused to comply, the detectives put a gun to their head and threatened to kill them, the man told CNN. He said the detectives would download the data from the detainee's phones and computers after arresting them.

"If you want people to confess, you use the electric baton with two sharp tips on top," Jiang said. "We would tie two electrical wires on the tips and set the wires on their genitals while the person is tied up."

Some detectives and prison guards even enjoyed the torture tactics, he said. Jiang said he quickly became "disillusioned" with the job, according to CNN.

Some guards and detectives even directed the detainees to sexually abuse other detainees, he said.

Abduweli Ayup, a 48-year-old Uyghur scholar from Xinjiang told CNN he was gang-raped by over a dozen other inmates after multiple guards directed them to do it. Eventually, he said he was freed from the facility in November 2014 after he was forced to confess to a crime of "illegal fundraising," according to the CNN report.

"The agony and the suffering we had (in the camp) will never vanish, will never leave our mind," 45-year-old Omir Bekali told CNN.

Bekali said police attempted to get him to admit to terrorism for crimes while he was detained and tortured four days and nights while on a business trip to the region in 2017. He said he was kept in internment camps for the following eight months.

"When they put the chains on my legs the first time, I understood immediately I am coming to hell," he told CNN.






-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Expect the usual tangents in 3...2..1

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## Beast

LOL... Is CNN is media clown? Already so many people pointed out the fakery of these video by CNN. 
They are testing normal IQ of a human being.

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## MH.Yang

I think he went to Guantanamo prison.
These penalties have a strong American style.

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## kankan326

In June, 2021, NED sponsored "World Uyghur Congress" was held in UK. A man in Chinese police uniform made a speech. By then his name is "Wang Leizhan"

Recently a very similar look guy was interviewed by CNN. This guy is called "Officer Jiang"



















Former Xinjiang police officer describes torture in Uyghur detention centers - Uyghur Tribunal


Former Xinjiang police officer describes torture in Uyghur detention centers Uyghur Tribunal UK Press Coverage Tribunal to investigate China’s alleged Genocide and crimes against Humanity against Uyghur, Kazakh and other Turkic Muslim populations.




uyghurtribunal.com

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## beijingwalker

*Quality of US top officials, Ex-Trump Official Confuses China For Japan, suggesting Japan persecuting Muslims in Xinjiang province in Japan*

Trump state department spokesperson confused China and Japan when talking about the Olympics, suggesting Japan is persecuting Muslims in Xinjiang province in Japan. It shows how much US politicians know about countries they are consistently talking about.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## faithfulguy

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Just too many people involved to keep things hushed up forever. People are starting to talk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A whistleblower detective in China describes the torture methods used to get Uyghurs to 'confess'
> 
> 
> Tactics included hanging detainees from the ceiling, electrocutions, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, starvation, and sexual abuse, he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A former detective detailed the torture tactics used on ethnic Uyghurs in China's Xinjiang region.
> Among them: Electrocutions, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, starvation, and sexual abuse, he said.
> The Biden administration this year called China's actions "genocide and crimes against humanity."
> 
> A Chinese former detective who worked in the Xinjiang region told CNN in an interview published Tuesday about some of the torture tactics he and other detectives used on individuals detained in the Xinjiang region.
> 
> The torture tactics against ethnic Uyghurs included shackling detainees to a chair designed to immobilize them called the "tiger chair," hanging them from the ceiling, electrocutions, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, starvation, and sexual violence, he told the news organization.
> 
> The man was only identified by CNN as Jiang over fears the Chinese government would retaliate against his family still living in China, according to the outlet. The interview was conducted in Europe where Jiang currently lives in exile, CNN reported.
> 
> Jiang said he had been deployed to several areas of Xinjiang about "three or four" times while he was a detective as part of China's "Strike Hard" campaign that targeted ethnic minorities, according to CNN. He was deployed to the region several times over the course of several years, per the CNN report.
> 
> Every detainee was beaten during the interrogation process, he said, including children as young as 14, he told CNN.
> 
> "Kick them, beat them (until they're) bruised and swollen," he said. "Until they kneel on the floor crying."
> 
> In April, the human-rights organization Human Rights Watch released a 53-page report on China, detailing incarceration, torture, disappearances, and cultural erasure of ethnic Uyghurs in Xinjiang, as Insider previously reported. The Biden administration a month earlier imposed sanctions on the Chinese government for what it called "genocide and crimes against humanity in Xinjiang."
> 
> "Everyone uses different methods. Some even use a wrecking bar or iron chains with locks," Jiang told CNN. "Police would step on the suspect's face and tell him to confess."
> 
> *He said he believed none of the people were guilty of the terrorism-related offenses they were accused of by the Chinese government.*
> 
> "*They are ordinary people,*" he told CNN.
> 
> But the torture ended only after the people confessed, he said. Then, they were transferred to prisons or internment camps, he told CNN. The Chinese police were given quotas on how many Uyghurs to detain, he said.
> 
> Sometimes, police would ask local leaders to call entire communities together only for them all to be arrested in large groups, according to CNN. Around 900,000 Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities were detained in one year, he said.
> 
> "It's all planned, and it has a system," Jiang said. "Everyone needs to hit a target."
> 
> If a person refused to comply, the detectives put a gun to their head and threatened to kill them, the man told CNN. He said the detectives would download the data from the detainee's phones and computers after arresting them.
> 
> "If you want people to confess, you use the electric baton with two sharp tips on top," Jiang said. "We would tie two electrical wires on the tips and set the wires on their genitals while the person is tied up."
> 
> Some detectives and prison guards even enjoyed the torture tactics, he said. Jiang said he quickly became "disillusioned" with the job, according to CNN.
> 
> Some guards and detectives even directed the detainees to sexually abuse other detainees, he said.
> 
> Abduweli Ayup, a 48-year-old Uyghur scholar from Xinjiang told CNN he was gang-raped by over a dozen other inmates after multiple guards directed them to do it. Eventually, he said he was freed from the facility in November 2014 after he was forced to confess to a crime of "illegal fundraising," according to the CNN report.
> 
> "The agony and the suffering we had (in the camp) will never vanish, will never leave our mind," 45-year-old Omir Bekali told CNN.
> 
> Bekali said police attempted to get him to admit to terrorism for crimes while he was detained and tortured four days and nights while on a business trip to the region in 2017. He said he was kept in internment camps for the following eight months.
> 
> "When they put the chains on my legs the first time, I understood immediately I am coming to hell," he told CNN.



@Hamartia Antidote if you can get either Max Blumenthal, Glenn Greenwald or Chris Hedges to agree with your accusations. I’ll take your charges seriously. Otherwise, no one should spend an iota of seconds reading this’ll any other baseless articles.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## faithfulguy

beijingwalker said:


> *Quality of US top officials, Ex-Trump Official Confuses China For Japan, suggesting Japan persecuting Muslims in Xinjiang province in Japan*
> 
> Trump state department spokesperson confused China and Japan when talking about the Olympics, suggesting Japan is persecuting Muslims in Xinjiang province in Japan. It shows how much US politicians know about countries they are consistently talking about.



this is a fabricated news by TYT. Can’t even understand their accusations.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kankan326

Patch on this guys uniform is of poor quality and poorly sewed. And the uniform doesn't fit his body.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PakFactor

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Just too many people involved to keep things hushed up forever. People are starting to talk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A whistleblower detective in China describes the torture methods used to get Uyghurs to 'confess'
> 
> 
> Tactics included hanging detainees from the ceiling, electrocutions, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, starvation, and sexual abuse, he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A former detective detailed the torture tactics used on ethnic Uyghurs in China's Xinjiang region.
> Among them: Electrocutions, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, starvation, and sexual abuse, he said.
> The Biden administration this year called China's actions "genocide and crimes against humanity."
> 
> A Chinese former detective who worked in the Xinjiang region told CNN in an interview published Tuesday about some of the torture tactics he and other detectives used on individuals detained in the Xinjiang region.
> 
> The torture tactics against ethnic Uyghurs included shackling detainees to a chair designed to immobilize them called the "tiger chair," hanging them from the ceiling, electrocutions, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, starvation, and sexual violence, he told the news organization.
> 
> The man was only identified by CNN as Jiang over fears the Chinese government would retaliate against his family still living in China, according to the outlet. The interview was conducted in Europe where Jiang currently lives in exile, CNN reported.
> 
> Jiang said he had been deployed to several areas of Xinjiang about "three or four" times while he was a detective as part of China's "Strike Hard" campaign that targeted ethnic minorities, according to CNN. He was deployed to the region several times over the course of several years, per the CNN report.
> 
> Every detainee was beaten during the interrogation process, he said, including children as young as 14, he told CNN.
> 
> "Kick them, beat them (until they're) bruised and swollen," he said. "Until they kneel on the floor crying."
> 
> In April, the human-rights organization Human Rights Watch released a 53-page report on China, detailing incarceration, torture, disappearances, and cultural erasure of ethnic Uyghurs in Xinjiang, as Insider previously reported. The Biden administration a month earlier imposed sanctions on the Chinese government for what it called "genocide and crimes against humanity in Xinjiang."
> 
> "Everyone uses different methods. Some even use a wrecking bar or iron chains with locks," Jiang told CNN. "Police would step on the suspect's face and tell him to confess."
> 
> *He said he believed none of the people were guilty of the terrorism-related offenses they were accused of by the Chinese government.*
> 
> "*They are ordinary people,*" he told CNN.
> 
> But the torture ended only after the people confessed, he said. Then, they were transferred to prisons or internment camps, he told CNN. The Chinese police were given quotas on how many Uyghurs to detain, he said.
> 
> Sometimes, police would ask local leaders to call entire communities together only for them all to be arrested in large groups, according to CNN. Around 900,000 Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities were detained in one year, he said.
> 
> "It's all planned, and it has a system," Jiang said. "Everyone needs to hit a target."
> 
> If a person refused to comply, the detectives put a gun to their head and threatened to kill them, the man told CNN. He said the detectives would download the data from the detainee's phones and computers after arresting them.
> 
> "If you want people to confess, you use the electric baton with two sharp tips on top," Jiang said. "We would tie two electrical wires on the tips and set the wires on their genitals while the person is tied up."
> 
> Some detectives and prison guards even enjoyed the torture tactics, he said. Jiang said he quickly became "disillusioned" with the job, according to CNN.
> 
> Some guards and detectives even directed the detainees to sexually abuse other detainees, he said.
> 
> Abduweli Ayup, a 48-year-old Uyghur scholar from Xinjiang told CNN he was gang-raped by over a dozen other inmates after multiple guards directed them to do it. Eventually, he said he was freed from the facility in November 2014 after he was forced to confess to a crime of "illegal fundraising," according to the CNN report.
> 
> "The agony and the suffering we had (in the camp) will never vanish, will never leave our mind," 45-year-old Omir Bekali told CNN.
> 
> Bekali said police attempted to get him to admit to terrorism for crimes while he was detained and tortured four days and nights while on a business trip to the region in 2017. He said he was kept in internment camps for the following eight months.
> 
> "When they put the chains on my legs the first time, I understood immediately I am coming to hell," he told CNN.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Expect the usual tangents in 3...2..1



Oh shut up, I’m a Muslim and I don’t buy into this garage pumped out by Western media. The world isn’t that old we all forgot about the trained Kuwaiti Ambassador daughter and her drama of Iraqis soldiers taking babies out of incubators, and throwing them out the window. Lol.

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## redtom

Genocide only needs to kill them, why torture? Does China also want to know where bin Laden is hiding?

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## kankan326

redtom said:


> Genocide only needs to kill them, why torture? Does China also want to know where bin Laden is hiding?


Maybe Chinese police want to know where other 12 million Uyghurs are hiding.

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## KampfAlwin

Could be true, but what doesn’t make sense is why would China allow a person who works in these top secret facilities to move out of China?

Since these are super secret, there couldn‘t be many officers working there that China couldn‘t find out, especially one that‘s gone - that surely narrows it down to the point where his reasoning of not releasing evidence due to family is moot.

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## Mav3rick

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Just too many people involved to keep things hushed up forever. People are starting to talk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A whistleblower detective in China describes the torture methods used to get Uyghurs to 'confess'
> 
> 
> Tactics included hanging detainees from the ceiling, electrocutions, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, starvation, and sexual abuse, he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A former detective detailed the torture tactics used on ethnic Uyghurs in China's Xinjiang region.
> Among them: Electrocutions, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, starvation, and sexual abuse, he said.
> The Biden administration this year called China's actions "genocide and crimes against humanity."
> 
> A Chinese former detective who worked in the Xinjiang region told CNN in an interview published Tuesday about some of the torture tactics he and other detectives used on individuals detained in the Xinjiang region.
> 
> The torture tactics against ethnic Uyghurs included shackling detainees to a chair designed to immobilize them called the "tiger chair," hanging them from the ceiling, electrocutions, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, starvation, and sexual violence, he told the news organization.
> 
> The man was only identified by CNN as Jiang over fears the Chinese government would retaliate against his family still living in China, according to the outlet. The interview was conducted in Europe where Jiang currently lives in exile, CNN reported.
> 
> Jiang said he had been deployed to several areas of Xinjiang about "three or four" times while he was a detective as part of China's "Strike Hard" campaign that targeted ethnic minorities, according to CNN. He was deployed to the region several times over the course of several years, per the CNN report.
> 
> Every detainee was beaten during the interrogation process, he said, including children as young as 14, he told CNN.
> 
> "Kick them, beat them (until they're) bruised and swollen," he said. "Until they kneel on the floor crying."
> 
> In April, the human-rights organization Human Rights Watch released a 53-page report on China, detailing incarceration, torture, disappearances, and cultural erasure of ethnic Uyghurs in Xinjiang, as Insider previously reported. The Biden administration a month earlier imposed sanctions on the Chinese government for what it called "genocide and crimes against humanity in Xinjiang."
> 
> "Everyone uses different methods. Some even use a wrecking bar or iron chains with locks," Jiang told CNN. "Police would step on the suspect's face and tell him to confess."
> 
> *He said he believed none of the people were guilty of the terrorism-related offenses they were accused of by the Chinese government.*
> 
> "*They are ordinary people,*" he told CNN.
> 
> But the torture ended only after the people confessed, he said. Then, they were transferred to prisons or internment camps, he told CNN. The Chinese police were given quotas on how many Uyghurs to detain, he said.
> 
> Sometimes, police would ask local leaders to call entire communities together only for them all to be arrested in large groups, according to CNN. Around 900,000 Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities were detained in one year, he said.
> 
> "It's all planned, and it has a system," Jiang said. "Everyone needs to hit a target."
> 
> If a person refused to comply, the detectives put a gun to their head and threatened to kill them, the man told CNN. He said the detectives would download the data from the detainee's phones and computers after arresting them.
> 
> "If you want people to confess, you use the electric baton with two sharp tips on top," Jiang said. "We would tie two electrical wires on the tips and set the wires on their genitals while the person is tied up."
> 
> Some detectives and prison guards even enjoyed the torture tactics, he said. Jiang said he quickly became "disillusioned" with the job, according to CNN.
> 
> Some guards and detectives even directed the detainees to sexually abuse other detainees, he said.
> 
> Abduweli Ayup, a 48-year-old Uyghur scholar from Xinjiang told CNN he was gang-raped by over a dozen other inmates after multiple guards directed them to do it. Eventually, he said he was freed from the facility in November 2014 after he was forced to confess to a crime of "illegal fundraising," according to the CNN report.
> 
> "The agony and the suffering we had (in the camp) will never vanish, will never leave our mind," 45-year-old Omir Bekali told CNN.
> 
> Bekali said police attempted to get him to admit to terrorism for crimes while he was detained and tortured four days and nights while on a business trip to the region in 2017. He said he was kept in internment camps for the following eight months.
> 
> "When they put the chains on my legs the first time, I understood immediately I am coming to hell," he told CNN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Expect the usual tangents in 3...2..1



So things that the US has been doing at Guantanamo Bay, right?


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## Beast



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## S10

1. Uniform is wrong, especially the shoulder epaulette. Looks like a cheap Taobao product.

2. Wearing a uniform to claim he was a whistleblower screams asylum fraud to me.

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## akramishaqkhan

PakFactor said:


> Oh shut up, I’m a Muslim and I don’t buy into this garage pumped out by Western media. The world isn’t that old we all forgot about the trained Kuwaiti Ambassador daughter and her drama of Iraqis soldiers taking babies out of incubators, and throwing them out the window. Lol.


I see a lot of tears for the Palestinians, for the Syrians, for the Kashmiris, for the Bosnians, for the muslims in CAR, for Rohingas (Nobel Peace price anyone) for the muslims in Iraq and even for journalists quartered and stuffed in bags. I see the great arc of human rights organizations and Western political governments speak about these atrocities and take action. Nope. Just a few crocodile tears for some this stuff and then silence. Probably almost similar to how they might have processed enslaving black people, killing indigenous in North America, and South America and Australia. And then centuries later after all consumed and fattened (on the dead bones of entire cultures and civilizations), come out with a few movies like "Dances With Wolves" and profess how sad we white people are in killing the colored and that yes there must have been some who stood up, because our hearts are white as snow. BULLSHIT!!!!

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## PakFactor

akramishaqkhan said:


> I see a lot of tears for the Palestinians, for the Syrians, for the Kashmiris, for the Bosnians, for the muslims in CAR, for Rohingas (Nobel Peace price anyone) for the muslims in Iraq and even for journalists quartered and stuffed in bags. I see the great arc of human rights organizations and Western political governments speak about these atrocities and take action. Nope. Just a few crocodile tears for some this stuff and then silence. Probably almost similar to how they might have processed enslaving black people, killing indigenous in North America, and South America and Australia. And then centuries later after all consumed and fattened (on the dead bones of entire cultures and civilizations), come out with a few movies like "Dances With Wolves" and profess how sad we white people are in killing the colored and that yes there must have been some who stood up, because our hearts are white as snow. BULLSHIT!!!!



It’s an attempt to white wash their crimes or make it look less violent than it actually was. That is the problem with media at the scale we have now, that opinions can change as the day goes from sunrise to sunset. The critical analysis ability of the coming generation to absorb and analyze data is almost non existent to be honest.  The ability of future generation is now limited to 140 characters.

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## TNT

These are all tactics to make the ppl forget what the US and western animals did in abu ghureb and in bagram and guantanamo bay. The stories are horrific and shows their true face. They are trying to prevent ICC proceedings for war crimes in Afghanistan. The Australians killed children in Afghanistan, just for fun.

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## Hamartia Antidote

PakFactor said:


> Oh shut up, I’m a Muslim and I don’t buy into this garage pumped out by Western media.



That's fine. It won't be the first time in world history people dismissed serious warning signs only to find out the harsh truth decades later and start feeling stupid for ignoring things. The most important thing is to at least get the word out so the people who aren’t the type to quickly dismiss things can do some fact finding themselves. That doesn’t obviously apply to you.


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## Dalit

Who thinks Uyghur story looks like a cooked up version of PTM/BLA?

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## beijingwalker

Want to know what a safe and peacefully beautiful life is and how people enjoy it, take a night walk in today's Kashgar old town. How many American cities which people can safely leisurely take a late night walk in old quarters alleys?

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## Dalit

beijingwalker said:


> Want to know what a peacefully beautiful life is and how people enjoy it, take a walk in today's Kashgar old town



It is funny how the Western world collectively keeps begging Pakistan to recognise so-called Uyghur oppression/genocide/massacre. Is it a coincidence? There is not a day where Jewish, Indian and Western media collectively keep reminding 200+ million Pakistanis how wicked they are for not condemning China. It goes to show how fvcked up these people are and how far their tentacles go once they unite against their adversaries. They lie in sync and their media tactics are very sophisticated. Of course Pakistani and Chinese authorities are absolutely cognizant of this fact.

It is a miracle that the majority in a country like Pakistan haven't fallen for this BS. I must give credit to the Pakistani people. It is not easy to differentiate between a web of lies and facts nowadays.

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## beijingwalker

In Chinese social media, there is a popular catchphrase : ' The heaven is so far away while Xinjiang is very close' （天堂很远，新疆很近）, It shows how beautiful this far western region in China is. in the past decade, incredibly fast development took place in cities and towns in Xinjiang and each city and town had been upgraded or rebuilt based on their individually unique local culture and style, let's check them out.

*Urumqi City*






*Swan and Pear blossom city Korla in Xinjiang, paradise oasis in the desert*










*Small border town Fuyun County in N.Xinjiang full of Baroque style architecture*
Fuyun County as the official romanized name, also transliterated from Uyghur as Koktokay County






*Small border town Burqin, where China meets both Russia and Mongolia*

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## beijingwalker

*Hotan town in southern Xinjiang, can you imagine it is actually a desert town?*

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang desert town Aksu*




*Billions of dollars worth Xinjiang water diversion project makes this desert city have more than enough water now






Xinjiang small town Wenquan county (Arixang County) and its wetland park*






*Small border town Khorgas in N.Xinjiang sitting next to Kazakhstan*

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang small city Changji in N. Xiniang*
Changji is a county-level city in N.Xinjiang





*Xinjiang Hami town, old quarter, perserved area after renovation*
China tries the best to protect the old traditional local architecture on the basis that safety must be guaranteed. These old mud houses all had been rebuilt with steel and concrete to make sure they are earthquake resistant.






*Bole* as the official romanized name, also transliterated from Mongolian as *Bortala*, is a county-level town in Xinjiang, China. Bortala means "brown grasslands/steppe" in Mongolian

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## Englishman

China has enslaved its whole population.

Wondering how many social credit points you'll get for this?

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## beijingwalker

*Sunsets at Yili River, Smll Kazakh town in Xinjiang bordering Kazakhstan*

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang small town Tumxuk






Xinjiang small town Yuli ( Lopnur )




*

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## Hamartia Antidote

beijingwalker said:


> Want to know what a safe and peacefully beautiful life is and how people enjoy it, take a night walk in today's Kashgar old town. How many American cities which people can safely leisurely take a late night walk in old quarters alleys?



LOL! Why do people think black Americans are doing poorly in the US as this video shows they obviously live wealthy happy lives better than Uighurs.





Or does relying on a few select videos about Uighurs or black Americans not tell the entire story?

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## Globenim

MH.Yang said:


> I think he went to Guantanamo prison.
> These penalties have a strong American style.
> 
> View attachment 783609
> 
> View attachment 783610
> 
> View attachment 783611
> 
> 
> View attachment 783612
> 
> 
> View attachment 783613


Thats not coincidence. Its their script to rationalize their criminal regime and offer an opportunity to their population to virtue signal as a means to cope with their own crimes and endorsment of U.S. crimes.

You are supposed to think about Guantanamo and other selected U.S. crimes against humanity and U.S. terrorist activities

U.S. regime and media control dissent, selectively hype up highly withewashed and encapsulated "incidents" where U.S. institutions obiously never fundamentally question nevermind reject their regime or incriminate and actually hold the the U.S. responsible as a whole, rolls over it with a few endorsed vigils, political platidutes and fake concern from U.S. experts in their U.S. ivory towers, while the criminals just continue and suffering of the victims is defacto not just completely ignored, but turned into some selfpity and selfmasturbation festival for U.S. Americans.

Then the subject is declared "case closed" and "come to terms with". Its "history". Its now a dirty spot on a whitewashed vest you want to forget about. At no point is the U.S. recognized as the criminal mafia and genocidal terrorist organization that massmurders, tortures and oppresses people on a daily basis that it is. At best it comes to a "remember Mai Lai yeah that happend", "remember Guantanamo yeah that happend", "remember Abu Ghraib yeah that happend", "remember when that Kuwaiti girl lied" even though all of them always had the full backup of the U.S. regime behind it who instigated them in first place and the consent or at least endorsement of their population.
The general U.S. population does not even actually percieve the U.S. regime as colossal and notoric liars that can never be trusted and Americans in Syria, Lybia, Afghanistan and Iraq as simply criminal massmurdering terrorist, but as liberators who sometimes are reminded about these "uncomfortable incidents". They continue waving their flag and toss consent for these criminals and their crimes into a ballot box.

At the same time the U.S. regime methodically starts projecting, simply put to relativize and distract from their own real crimes, that part is I know more than obvious to everyone, fabricating disinformation that hits close home to crimes and abuses U.S. Americans almost forgot because the majority never really cared about it, nevermind took personal responsibility for, but still knows about. Its just like a Holocaust, its just like Guantanamo, its just like slavery, its just like racial repression in the USA. And since that happend and the genocidal U.S. terror regime and its supportive U.S. population have "come to terms" with those, then the U.S. can, no it certainly must, judge and hold others responsible too even when the U.S. is the only one comitting the crimes.

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## beijingwalker

Hamartia Antidote said:


> LOL! Why do people think black Americans are doing poorly in the US as this video shows they obviously live wealthy happy lives better than Uighurs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or does relying on a few select videos about Uighurs or black Americans not tell the entire story?


Does China claim US put millions of blacks into concentration camps and commit genocide against them 24/7?


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## beijingwalker

*Karamay, a man made oasis city in the desert in Xinjiang via water diversion, Water from The Irtysh river was partly diverted here in the middle of the desert for this new city






Small Kazakh border town Tacheng in N. Xinjiang




*

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## Hamartia Antidote

beijingwalker said:


> Does China claim US put millions of blacks into concentration camps and commit genocide against them 24/7?



How does a video with an obvious shortage of Uighur young men in it make us think everything is fine?? Women/children to left, women/children to right. It's obvious something is seriously wrong.

2014 Kashgar nightlife






Notice the difference?? Your video shows a ghostown..people were obviously hauled away.


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## redtom

Hamartia Antidote said:


> How does a video with an obvious shortage of Uighur young men in it make us think everything is fine?? Women/children to left, women/children to right. It's obvious something is seriously wrong.
> 
> 
> Here's Kashgar 10 years ago..notice the difference


Try out places young people like to hang out.













or school








https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc1XzSInHog

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## Hamartia Antidote

redtom said:


> Try out places young people like to hang out.



Interesting all over a year old. Beijingwalker's was posted today

how about Sept 21st 2021 to explain it.


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## kankan326

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Sept 21st 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dutch couple went to Kashgar city of EastTurkestan.They asked a Chinese tour guide about roadblocks?
> 
> 
> Dutch couple went to Kashgar city of East Turkistan. Inside of the city they saw many roadblocks and they asked a #Chinese tour guide “ why there are many ro...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com


Please stop posting story telling "proof".

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## redtom

Hamartia Antidote said:


> how about Sept 21st 2021


There is no East Turkestan in the world. Looks like they've mastered the technology to enter a parallel universe.   

You should start by saying you're talking about parallel worlds. I thought you were talking about this earth. So, you should turn to Superman. He'll figure it out.

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## Hamartia Antidote

redtom said:


> There is no East Turkestan in the world. Looks like they've mastered the technology to enter a parallel universe.
> 
> You should start by saying you're talking about parallel worlds. I thought you were talking about this earth. So, you should turn to Superman. He'll figure it out.



There's no Arabian Gulf either but people still use the term. That doesn't mean the area only exists in a parallel universe or doesn't have serious problems.

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## redtom

Hamartia Antidote said:


> There's no Arabian Gulf either but people still use the term. That doesn't mean the area only exists in a parallel universe or doesn't have serious problems.


That's your problem. You like to act like something that didn't happen did happen. Then ask people to discuss it as fact. It's better to create a parallel universe for you. Because other people don't know when you talk about reality, when you talk about your desires, when you talk about your delusions.

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## beijingwalker

Hamartia Antidote said:


> How does a video with an obvious shortage of Uighur young men in it make us think everything is fine?? Women/children to left, women/children to right. It's obvious something is seriously wrong.
> 
> 2014 Kashgar nightlife
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice the difference?? Your video shows a ghostown..people were obviously hauled away.



*Kashgar Old Town Night Market Xinjiang，Night Walk 4K. Oct 22, 2020 . So many people, Aren't they supposed to be in camps?




*

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## beijingwalker

How big is China? Let's measure it by time but not distance, in Kashgar old town, it's still full day time at around 10pm Beijing time




*Night walk in Kashgar old town, southern Xinjiang




*

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## shi12jun



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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

@Hamartia Antidote Sir has some valid points. Thats why Iiked them. And Sir can you rise your voice for Kashmiri and Palestinians too?

@beijingwalker Sir the videos you have posted are mostly vlogs! Almost everybody is Chinese!


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## beijingwalker

@beijingwalker Sir the videos you have posted are mostly vlogs! Almost everybody is Chinese!
[/QUOTE]
Of course, China doesn't have many foreigners, especially in remote underdeveloped regions. and we are showing Chinese peoples life in Xinjiang, why we need foreigners in these videos?

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## Beast

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> @Hamartia Antidote Sir has some valid points. Thats why Iiked them. And Sir can you rise your voice for Kashmiri and Palestinians too?
> 
> @beijingwalker Sir the videos you have posted are mostly vlogs! Almost everybody is Chinese!


He wouldn't raise a voice for Palestine. He is serving the Jews. Don't u know that? How can he betray his master?. He will only post Palestine as terrorist and they deserve to be bombed by air strike and Israel arty.

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## hualushui



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## Globenim

beijingwalker said:


> Of course, China doesn't have many foreigners, especially in remote underdeveloped regions. and we are showing Chinese peoples life in Xinjiang, why we need foreigners in these videos?


Only white people and selected honoray white state actors of approved white mans pet regimes can tell the truth.
Also when droves of white people, who clearly arent paid off by the genocidial U.S. terror regime, actually say the same as Chinese, they must be just individuals paid by Chinas government, so by default that doesnt count either.

Therefore daily footage contradicting painfully retarded trolling and completely baseless lies backed by absolutely no credible evidence, is not evidence to the contrary.

Remember Rule #1:
Chinese are universally guilty of every crime Americans can pull out of their ***, until judged innocent by some American terrorists and American shills who slander and lie about China for a living. 😘
Remember Rule #2:
The onus is of Chinese to proof themself innocent to a bunch of American terrorists and their closet fanboys, not for the American liars to make a valid case to the rest of the world.


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## CAPRICORN-88



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## Hamartia Antidote

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> @Hamartia Antidote Sir has some valid points.



Do you really believe their answer for why only women and children are in that particular video and as people could interpret the walker as not being a Uighur.



Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> And Sir can you rise your voice for Kashmiri and Palestinians too?



How about the Lebanese instead? The Israelis severely damaged a friend of mines grandparent's house in an airstrike.


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## beijingwalker

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Do you really believe their answer for why only women and children are in that particular video and as people could interpret the walker as not being a Uighur.


Which video? Do you believe in this video below? people should not only believe in just one video, Xinjiang is one of the hottest tour spots in China and tons of video vlogs come out every single day, go to youtube to check them out and figure out your stupid your claim is. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=新疆游

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## beijingwalker

*AP News Confirms NO Uyghur Genocide in Xinjiang China*






AP’s recent trip to Xinjiang, China has revealed not only zero evidence of “cultural genocide” but has exposed the lies the Western media (including AP) have told international audiences for years about the conditions in Xijinang and the treatment of the Uyghur people. Depending on the public’s ignorance and providing links AP is confident readers will not click on, explore, and discover the contradictions they present to their narrative, AP attempts to backpedal Western narratives to depict the peace and progress they witnessed in Xinjiang as an artificial facade for “invisible” oppression.

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## SuvarnaTeja

> *AP News Confirms NO Uyghur Genocide in Xinjiang China*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AP’s recent trip to Xinjiang, China has revealed not only zero evidence of “cultural genocide” but has exposed the lies the Western media (including AP) have told international audiences for years about the conditions in Xijinang and the treatment of the Uyghur people. Depending on the public’s ignorance and providing links AP is confident readers will not click on, explore, and discover the contradictions they present to their narrative, AP attempts to backpedal Western narratives to depict the peace and progress they witnessed in Xinjiang as an artificial facade for “invisible” oppression.




So is this a confession that they have been lying to the world all along?


beijingwalker said:


> *AP News Confirms NO Uyghur Genocide in Xinjiang China*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AP’s recent trip to Xinjiang, China has revealed not only zero evidence of “cultural genocide” but has exposed the lies the Western media (including AP) have told international audiences for years about the conditions in Xijinang and the treatment of the Uyghur people. Depending on the public’s ignorance and providing links AP is confident readers will not click on, explore, and discover the contradictions they present to their narrative, AP attempts to backpedal Western narratives to depict the peace and progress they witnessed in Xinjiang as an artificial facade for “invisible” oppression.



Truth always prevails in the end.


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## Falconless

The full article 
*Terror & tourism: Xinjiang eases its grip, but fear remains*

By DAKE KANG
October 10, 2021
XINJIANG, China (AP) — The razor wire that once ringed public buildings in China’s far northwestern Xinjiang region is nearly all gone.

Gone, too, are the middle school uniforms in military camouflage and the armored personnel carriers rumbling around the homeland of the Uyghurs. Gone are many of the surveillance cameras that once glared down like birds from overhead poles, and the eerie eternal wail of sirens in the ancient Silk Road city of Kashgar.

Uyghur teenage boys, once a rare sight, now flirt with girls over pounding dance music at rollerblading rinks. One cab driver blasted Shakira as she raced through the streets.

Four years after Beijing launched a brutal crackdown that swept up to a million or more Uyghurs and other mostly Muslim minorities into detention camps and prisons, its control of Xinjiang has entered a new era. Chinese authorities have scaled back many of the most draconian and visible aspects of the region’s high-tech police state. The panic that gripped the region a few years ago has subsided considerably, and a sense of normality is creeping back in. 




Uyghur-themed fridge magnets are displayed at a naan museum in Urumqi, the capital of China's far west Xinjiang region, on April 21, 2021. Four years after Beijing's brutal crackdown on largely Muslim minorities native to Xinjiang, Chinese authorities are dialing back the region's high-tech police state and stepping up tourism. But even as a sense of normality returns, fear remains, hidden but pervasive. (AP Photo/Dake Kang)

But there is no doubt about who rules, and evidence of the terror of the last four years is everywhere.

It’s seen in Xinjiang’s cities, where many historic centers have been bulldozed and the Islamic call to prayer no longer rings out. It’s seen in Kashgar, where one mosque was converted into a café, and a section of another has been turned into a tourist toilet. It’s seen deep in the countryside, where Han Chinese officials run villages.

And it’s seen in the fear that was ever-present, just below the surface, on two rare trips to Xinjiang I made for The Associated Press, one on a state-guided tour for the foreign press.

A bike seller’s eyes widened in alarm when he learned I was a foreigner. He picked up his phone and began dialing the police. 

A convenience store cashier chatted idly about declining sales – then was visited by the shadowy men tailing us. When we dropped by again, she didn’t say a word, instead making a zipping motion across her mouth, pushing past us and running out of the store.

At one point, I was tailed by a convoy of a dozen cars, an eerie procession through the silent streets of Aksu at 4 in the morning. Anytime I tried to chat with someone, the minders would draw in close, straining to hear every word. 

It’s hard to know why Chinese authorities have shifted to subtler methods of controlling the region. It may be that searing criticism from the West, along with punishing political and commercial sanctions, have pushed authorities to lighten up. Or it may simply be that China judges it has come far enough in its goal of subduing the Uyghurs and other mostly Muslim minorities to relax its grip.

Uyghur activists abroad accuse the Chinese government of genocide, pointing to plunging birthrates and the mass detentions. The authorities say their goal is not to eliminate Uyghurs but to integrate them, and that harsh measures are necessary to curb extremism.

Regardless of intent, one thing is clear: Many of the practices that made the Uyghur culture a living thing – raucous gatherings, strict Islamic habits, heated debate – have been restricted or banned. In their place, the authorities have crafted a sterilized version, one ripe for commercialization.

Xinjiang officials took us on a tour to the Grand Bazaar in the center of Urumqi, which has been rebuilt for tourists, like many other cities in Xinjiang. Here, there are giant plastic bearded Uyghur men and a giant plastic Uyghur instrument. A nearby museum for traditional naan bread sells tiny plastic naan keychains, Uyghur hats and fridge magnets. Crowds of Han Chinese snap selfies.

James Leibold, a prominent scholar of Xinjiang ethnic policy, calls it the “museumification” of Uyghur culture. Chinese officials call it progress. 

China has long struggled to integrate the Uyghurs, a historically Muslim group of 13 million people with close linguistic, ethnic and cultural ties to Turkey. Since the Communist Party took control of Xinjiang in 1949, Beijing’s leaders have debated whether stricter or softer measures are more effective in absorbing the vast territory, half the size of India.

For decades, policy in Xinjiang swung back and forth. Even as the state granted special benefits to minorities, such as hiring quotas and extra points on entrance exams, glass ceilings, racism, and restrictions on religion alienated and angered many Uyghurs.

The harder the government tried to control the Uyghurs, the more stubbornly many clung to their identity. A few resorted to violence, carrying out bombings and knifings against a state they believed would never accord them genuine respect. Hundreds of innocent civilians, both Han Chinese and Uyghur, perished in increasingly deadly attacks.

The debate ended soon after President Xi Jinping’s rise to power in 2012. The state chose forced assimilation, detaining Uyghurs and other minorities indiscriminately by the thousands and branding them as suspected “terrorists.”

Today, many checkpoints and police stations are gone and the bombings have stopped, but the racial divide remains clear.

Uyghurs live trapped in an invisible system that restricts their every move. It’s near impossible for them to get passports, and on planes to and from Xinjiang, most passengers are from China’s Han Chinese majority. 

Uyghurs who live outside Xinjiang must register with local police and report to an officer on a regular basis, their moves tracked and monitored. Many Uyghurs living in Xinjiang aren’t allowed to leave the region.

Information on Xinjiang within China is heavily censored, and state media now promotes the region as a safe, exotic tourist destination. As a result, Han Chinese outside Xinjiang remain largely unaware of the restrictions that Uyghurs face, one of a number of reasons why many in China are supportive of Beijing’s crackdown.

Within Xinjiang, Han Chinese and Uyghurs live side by side, an unspoken but palpable gulf between them. In the suburbs of Kashgar, a Han woman at a tailor shop tells my colleague that most Uyghurs weren’t allowed to go far from their homes. 

“Isn’t that so? You can’t leave this shop?” the woman said to a Uyghur seamstress. 

Down the street from the tailor shop, I spot Lunar New Year banners with slogans in Chinese characters like “The Chinese Communist Party is good” plastered on every storefront. An elderly Han Chinese shopkeeper tells me that local officials printed the banners by the hundreds, handed them out and ordered them put up, although Uyghurs traditionally celebrate Islamic holidays rather than the Lunar New Year.

She approved of the strict measures. Xinjiang was much safer now, she said, than when she had first moved there with her son, a soldier with the Bingtuan, Xinjiang’s paramilitary corps. 

The Uyghurs “don’t dare do anything around here anymore,” she told me.

City centers now bustle with life again, with Uyghur and Han children screeching as they chase each other across streets. Some Uyghurs even approach me and ask for my contact — something that never happened on previous visits.

But in rural villages and quiet suburbs, many houses sit empty and padlocked. In one Kashgar neighborhood, the words “Empty House” is spray-painted on every third or fourth residence. In a village an hour’s drive away, I spot dozens of “Empty House” notices on a half-hour walk, red lettering on yellow slips fluttering in the wind on door upon door. 

Control is also tighter deep in the countryside, away from the bazaars that the government is eager for visitors to see. 

In one village we stop in, an elderly Uyghur man in a square skullcap answers just one question – “We don’t have the coronavirus here, everything is good” – before a local Han Chinese cadre demands to know what we are doing. 

He tells the villagers in Uyghur, “If he asks you anything, just say you don’t know anything.”

Behind him, a drunk Uyghur man was yelling. Alcohol is forbidden for practicing Muslims, especially in the holy month of Ramadan.

“I’ve been drinking alcohol, I’m a little drunk, but that’s no problem. We can drink as we want now!” he shouted. “We can do what we want! Things are great now!”

At a nearby store, I notice liquor bottles lining the shelves. In another town, my colleague and I encounter a drunk Uyghur man, passed out by a trash bin in broad daylight. Though many Uyghurs in big cities like Urumqi have long indulged in drinking, such sights were once unimaginable in the pious rural areas of southern Xinjiang. 

On a government sponsored tour, officials took us to meet Mamatjan Ahat, a truck driver, who declared he was back to drinking and smoking because he had recanted religion and extremism after a stint at one of Xinjiang’s infamous “training centers”. 

“It made me more open-minded,” Ahat told reporters, as officials listened in.

Xinjiang officials say they aren’t forcing atheism on the Uyghurs, but rather defending freedom of belief against creeping extremism. “Not all Uyghurs are Muslim,” is a common refrain.

Controls on religious activity have slackened, but remain tightly bound by the state. For example, the authorities have allowed some mosques to reopen, though hours are strictly limited. Small groups of elderly worshippers trickle in and out.

Xinjiang’s unique brand of state-controlled Islam is most on display at the Xinjiang Islamic Institute, a government school for imams.

Here, young Uyghur men chant verses from the Quran and pray five times a day. They get scholarships and opportunities to study in Egypt, officials say as they walk us around. Tens of thousands have graduated, and recently they’ve opened a new campus – albeit one with a police station installed at the entrance.

“Religious freedom is enshrined in China’s constitution,” said a student, Omar Adilabdulla, as officials watch him speak. “It’s totally free.” 

As he speaks, I crack open a textbook on another student’s desk. A good Chinese Muslim has to learn Mandarin, it says, China’s main language.

“Arabic is not the only language that compiles Allah’s classics,” the lesson said. “To learn Chinese is our responsibility and obligation, because we are all Chinese.”

As I flip through the book, I spot other lessons. 

“We must be grateful to the Party and the government for creating peace,” reads one chapter.

“We must strive to build a socialist Xinjiang with Chinese characteristics,” says another. “Amen!”

Uyghur is still spoken everywhere, but its use in public spaces is slowly fading. In some cities, entire blocks, freshly constructed, have signs only in Chinese, not Uyghur.

In bookstores, Uyghur language tomes are relegated to sections labeled “ethnic minority language books”. The government boasts that nearly a thousand Uyghur titles are published a year, but none are by Perhat Tursun, a lyrical modernist author, or Yalqun Rozi, a textbook editor and firebrand commentator. They, like most prominent Uyghur intellectuals, have been imprisoned.

On the shelves instead: Xi Jinping thought, biographies of Mao, lectures on socialist values, and Mandarin-Uyghur dictionaries.

Many Uyghurs still struggle with Mandarin, from young men to elderly grandmothers. In recent years, the government has made Mandarin the mandatory standard in schools.

On the state tour, a headmaster tells us that the Uyghur language continues to be protected, pointing to their minority language classes. But all other classes are in Chinese, and a sign at one school urges students to “Speak Mandarin, use standard writing.” 

The most heavily criticized aspect of Xinjiang’s crackdown has been its so-called “training centers”, which leaked documents show are actually extrajudicial indoctrination camps.

After global outcry, Chinese officials declared the camps shuttered in 2019. Many indeed appear to be closed.

On the state-led tour in April, they took us to what they said was once a “training center”, now a regular vocational school in Peyzawat County. A mere fence marks the campus boundaries — a stark contrast from the barbed wire, high watchtowers and police at the entrance we saw three years ago. On our own, we see at least three other sites which once appeared to be camps and are now apartments or office complexes.

But in their place, permanent detention facilities have been built, in an apparent move from makeshift camps to a long-lasting system of mass incarceration. We encountered one massive facility driving along a country road, its walls rising from the fields, men visible in high guard towers. At a second, we were blocked by two men wearing epidemic-prevention gear. A third ranks among the largest detention facilities on earth. Many are tucked away behind forests or dunes deep in the countryside, far from tourists and city centers.

In Urumqi, at an anti-terror exhibition in a vast, modernist complex near glass office towers and freshly-laid highways, the Chinese authorities have rewritten history. Though Xinjiang has cycled in and out of Chinese control, and was independent as recently as the 1700s and also briefly in the last century, the territory’s past is casually dismissed.

“Although there were some kingdoms and khanates in Xinjiang in the past, they were all local regimes within the territory of China,” one display says.

It’s written in English and Chinese. No Uyghur script is seen anywhere in the exhibit. Guns and bombs sit in glass cases, ones the exhibit says were confiscated from extremists.

A prim Uyghur woman in a Chinese traditional qipao suit presents a video depicting Beijing’s vision for Xinjiang’s future, where the sun sets over pagodas and a futuristic skyline. Many scenes look like they could be filmed anywhere in China. 

“Our anti-terrorism and de-radicalization struggles have achieved remarkable results,” she says, in crisp Mandarin. 

Officials dodge questions about how many Uyghurs were detained, though statistics showed an extraordinary spike in arrests before the government stopped releasing them in 2019. Instead, they tell us during the tour that they’ve engineered the perfect solution to terrorism, protecting Uyghur culture rather than destroying it.

One night, I was seated next to Dou Wangui, the Party Secretary of Aksu Prefecture, as well as Li Xuejun, the vice chairman of the Xinjiang People’s Congress. They are both Han Chinese, like most of Xinjiang’s powerful men.

Over grilled lamb and yogurt, we watched grinning Uyghurs dressed in traditional gowns dance and sing. Dou turns to me.

“See, we can’t have genocide here,” Dou said, gesturing to the performers. “We’re preserving their traditional culture.”








Terror & tourism: Xinjiang eases its grip, but fear remains


XINJIANG, China (AP) — The razor wire that once ringed public buildings in China’s far northwestern Xinjiang region is nearly all gone. Gone, too, are the middle school uniforms in military camouflage and the armored personnel carriers rumbling around the homeland of the Uyghurs.




apnews.com


----------



## kankan326

Tibetan famlies got free washing machines from government as the gift of 70th anniversary of Tibet liberation.


----------



## beijingwalker

Falconless said:


> The full article
> *Terror & tourism: Xinjiang eases its grip, but fear remains*
> 
> By DAKE KANG
> October 10, 2021
> XINJIANG, China (AP) — The razor wire that once ringed public buildings in China’s far northwestern Xinjiang region is nearly all gone.
> 
> Gone, too, are the middle school uniforms in military camouflage and the armored personnel carriers rumbling around the homeland of the Uyghurs. Gone are many of the surveillance cameras that once glared down like birds from overhead poles, and the eerie eternal wail of sirens in the ancient Silk Road city of Kashgar.
> 
> Uyghur teenage boys, once a rare sight, now flirt with girls over pounding dance music at rollerblading rinks. One cab driver blasted Shakira as she raced through the streets.
> 
> Four years after Beijing launched a brutal crackdown that swept up to a million or more Uyghurs and other mostly Muslim minorities into detention camps and prisons, its control of Xinjiang has entered a new era. Chinese authorities have scaled back many of the most draconian and visible aspects of the region’s high-tech police state. The panic that gripped the region a few years ago has subsided considerably, and a sense of normality is creeping back in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uyghur-themed fridge magnets are displayed at a naan museum in Urumqi, the capital of China's far west Xinjiang region, on April 21, 2021. Four years after Beijing's brutal crackdown on largely Muslim minorities native to Xinjiang, Chinese authorities are dialing back the region's high-tech police state and stepping up tourism. But even as a sense of normality returns, fear remains, hidden but pervasive. (AP Photo/Dake Kang)
> 
> But there is no doubt about who rules, and evidence of the terror of the last four years is everywhere.
> 
> It’s seen in Xinjiang’s cities, where many historic centers have been bulldozed and the Islamic call to prayer no longer rings out. It’s seen in Kashgar, where one mosque was converted into a café, and a section of another has been turned into a tourist toilet. It’s seen deep in the countryside, where Han Chinese officials run villages.
> 
> And it’s seen in the fear that was ever-present, just below the surface, on two rare trips to Xinjiang I made for The Associated Press, one on a state-guided tour for the foreign press.
> 
> A bike seller’s eyes widened in alarm when he learned I was a foreigner. He picked up his phone and began dialing the police.
> 
> A convenience store cashier chatted idly about declining sales – then was visited by the shadowy men tailing us. When we dropped by again, she didn’t say a word, instead making a zipping motion across her mouth, pushing past us and running out of the store.
> 
> At one point, I was tailed by a convoy of a dozen cars, an eerie procession through the silent streets of Aksu at 4 in the morning. Anytime I tried to chat with someone, the minders would draw in close, straining to hear every word.
> 
> It’s hard to know why Chinese authorities have shifted to subtler methods of controlling the region. It may be that searing criticism from the West, along with punishing political and commercial sanctions, have pushed authorities to lighten up. Or it may simply be that China judges it has come far enough in its goal of subduing the Uyghurs and other mostly Muslim minorities to relax its grip.
> 
> Uyghur activists abroad accuse the Chinese government of genocide, pointing to plunging birthrates and the mass detentions. The authorities say their goal is not to eliminate Uyghurs but to integrate them, and that harsh measures are necessary to curb extremism.
> 
> Regardless of intent, one thing is clear: Many of the practices that made the Uyghur culture a living thing – raucous gatherings, strict Islamic habits, heated debate – have been restricted or banned. In their place, the authorities have crafted a sterilized version, one ripe for commercialization.
> 
> Xinjiang officials took us on a tour to the Grand Bazaar in the center of Urumqi, which has been rebuilt for tourists, like many other cities in Xinjiang. Here, there are giant plastic bearded Uyghur men and a giant plastic Uyghur instrument. A nearby museum for traditional naan bread sells tiny plastic naan keychains, Uyghur hats and fridge magnets. Crowds of Han Chinese snap selfies.
> 
> James Leibold, a prominent scholar of Xinjiang ethnic policy, calls it the “museumification” of Uyghur culture. Chinese officials call it progress.
> 
> China has long struggled to integrate the Uyghurs, a historically Muslim group of 13 million people with close linguistic, ethnic and cultural ties to Turkey. Since the Communist Party took control of Xinjiang in 1949, Beijing’s leaders have debated whether stricter or softer measures are more effective in absorbing the vast territory, half the size of India.
> 
> For decades, policy in Xinjiang swung back and forth. Even as the state granted special benefits to minorities, such as hiring quotas and extra points on entrance exams, glass ceilings, racism, and restrictions on religion alienated and angered many Uyghurs.
> 
> The harder the government tried to control the Uyghurs, the more stubbornly many clung to their identity. A few resorted to violence, carrying out bombings and knifings against a state they believed would never accord them genuine respect. Hundreds of innocent civilians, both Han Chinese and Uyghur, perished in increasingly deadly attacks.
> 
> The debate ended soon after President Xi Jinping’s rise to power in 2012. The state chose forced assimilation, detaining Uyghurs and other minorities indiscriminately by the thousands and branding them as suspected “terrorists.”
> 
> Today, many checkpoints and police stations are gone and the bombings have stopped, but the racial divide remains clear.
> 
> Uyghurs live trapped in an invisible system that restricts their every move. It’s near impossible for them to get passports, and on planes to and from Xinjiang, most passengers are from China’s Han Chinese majority.
> 
> Uyghurs who live outside Xinjiang must register with local police and report to an officer on a regular basis, their moves tracked and monitored. Many Uyghurs living in Xinjiang aren’t allowed to leave the region.
> 
> Information on Xinjiang within China is heavily censored, and state media now promotes the region as a safe, exotic tourist destination. As a result, Han Chinese outside Xinjiang remain largely unaware of the restrictions that Uyghurs face, one of a number of reasons why many in China are supportive of Beijing’s crackdown.
> 
> Within Xinjiang, Han Chinese and Uyghurs live side by side, an unspoken but palpable gulf between them. In the suburbs of Kashgar, a Han woman at a tailor shop tells my colleague that most Uyghurs weren’t allowed to go far from their homes.
> 
> “Isn’t that so? You can’t leave this shop?” the woman said to a Uyghur seamstress.
> 
> Down the street from the tailor shop, I spot Lunar New Year banners with slogans in Chinese characters like “The Chinese Communist Party is good” plastered on every storefront. An elderly Han Chinese shopkeeper tells me that local officials printed the banners by the hundreds, handed them out and ordered them put up, although Uyghurs traditionally celebrate Islamic holidays rather than the Lunar New Year.
> 
> She approved of the strict measures. Xinjiang was much safer now, she said, than when she had first moved there with her son, a soldier with the Bingtuan, Xinjiang’s paramilitary corps.
> 
> The Uyghurs “don’t dare do anything around here anymore,” she told me.
> 
> City centers now bustle with life again, with Uyghur and Han children screeching as they chase each other across streets. Some Uyghurs even approach me and ask for my contact — something that never happened on previous visits.
> 
> But in rural villages and quiet suburbs, many houses sit empty and padlocked. In one Kashgar neighborhood, the words “Empty House” is spray-painted on every third or fourth residence. In a village an hour’s drive away, I spot dozens of “Empty House” notices on a half-hour walk, red lettering on yellow slips fluttering in the wind on door upon door.
> 
> Control is also tighter deep in the countryside, away from the bazaars that the government is eager for visitors to see.
> 
> In one village we stop in, an elderly Uyghur man in a square skullcap answers just one question – “We don’t have the coronavirus here, everything is good” – before a local Han Chinese cadre demands to know what we are doing.
> 
> He tells the villagers in Uyghur, “If he asks you anything, just say you don’t know anything.”
> 
> Behind him, a drunk Uyghur man was yelling. Alcohol is forbidden for practicing Muslims, especially in the holy month of Ramadan.
> 
> “I’ve been drinking alcohol, I’m a little drunk, but that’s no problem. We can drink as we want now!” he shouted. “We can do what we want! Things are great now!”
> 
> At a nearby store, I notice liquor bottles lining the shelves. In another town, my colleague and I encounter a drunk Uyghur man, passed out by a trash bin in broad daylight. Though many Uyghurs in big cities like Urumqi have long indulged in drinking, such sights were once unimaginable in the pious rural areas of southern Xinjiang.
> 
> On a government sponsored tour, officials took us to meet Mamatjan Ahat, a truck driver, who declared he was back to drinking and smoking because he had recanted religion and extremism after a stint at one of Xinjiang’s infamous “training centers”.
> 
> “It made me more open-minded,” Ahat told reporters, as officials listened in.
> 
> Xinjiang officials say they aren’t forcing atheism on the Uyghurs, but rather defending freedom of belief against creeping extremism. “Not all Uyghurs are Muslim,” is a common refrain.
> 
> Controls on religious activity have slackened, but remain tightly bound by the state. For example, the authorities have allowed some mosques to reopen, though hours are strictly limited. Small groups of elderly worshippers trickle in and out.
> 
> Xinjiang’s unique brand of state-controlled Islam is most on display at the Xinjiang Islamic Institute, a government school for imams.
> 
> Here, young Uyghur men chant verses from the Quran and pray five times a day. They get scholarships and opportunities to study in Egypt, officials say as they walk us around. Tens of thousands have graduated, and recently they’ve opened a new campus – albeit one with a police station installed at the entrance.
> 
> “Religious freedom is enshrined in China’s constitution,” said a student, Omar Adilabdulla, as officials watch him speak. “It’s totally free.”
> 
> As he speaks, I crack open a textbook on another student’s desk. A good Chinese Muslim has to learn Mandarin, it says, China’s main language.
> 
> “Arabic is not the only language that compiles Allah’s classics,” the lesson said. “To learn Chinese is our responsibility and obligation, because we are all Chinese.”
> 
> As I flip through the book, I spot other lessons.
> 
> “We must be grateful to the Party and the government for creating peace,” reads one chapter.
> 
> “We must strive to build a socialist Xinjiang with Chinese characteristics,” says another. “Amen!”
> 
> Uyghur is still spoken everywhere, but its use in public spaces is slowly fading. In some cities, entire blocks, freshly constructed, have signs only in Chinese, not Uyghur.
> 
> In bookstores, Uyghur language tomes are relegated to sections labeled “ethnic minority language books”. The government boasts that nearly a thousand Uyghur titles are published a year, but none are by Perhat Tursun, a lyrical modernist author, or Yalqun Rozi, a textbook editor and firebrand commentator. They, like most prominent Uyghur intellectuals, have been imprisoned.
> 
> On the shelves instead: Xi Jinping thought, biographies of Mao, lectures on socialist values, and Mandarin-Uyghur dictionaries.
> 
> Many Uyghurs still struggle with Mandarin, from young men to elderly grandmothers. In recent years, the government has made Mandarin the mandatory standard in schools.
> 
> On the state tour, a headmaster tells us that the Uyghur language continues to be protected, pointing to their minority language classes. But all other classes are in Chinese, and a sign at one school urges students to “Speak Mandarin, use standard writing.”
> 
> The most heavily criticized aspect of Xinjiang’s crackdown has been its so-called “training centers”, which leaked documents show are actually extrajudicial indoctrination camps.
> 
> After global outcry, Chinese officials declared the camps shuttered in 2019. Many indeed appear to be closed.
> 
> On the state-led tour in April, they took us to what they said was once a “training center”, now a regular vocational school in Peyzawat County. A mere fence marks the campus boundaries — a stark contrast from the barbed wire, high watchtowers and police at the entrance we saw three years ago. On our own, we see at least three other sites which once appeared to be camps and are now apartments or office complexes.
> 
> But in their place, permanent detention facilities have been built, in an apparent move from makeshift camps to a long-lasting system of mass incarceration. We encountered one massive facility driving along a country road, its walls rising from the fields, men visible in high guard towers. At a second, we were blocked by two men wearing epidemic-prevention gear. A third ranks among the largest detention facilities on earth. Many are tucked away behind forests or dunes deep in the countryside, far from tourists and city centers.
> 
> In Urumqi, at an anti-terror exhibition in a vast, modernist complex near glass office towers and freshly-laid highways, the Chinese authorities have rewritten history. Though Xinjiang has cycled in and out of Chinese control, and was independent as recently as the 1700s and also briefly in the last century, the territory’s past is casually dismissed.
> 
> “Although there were some kingdoms and khanates in Xinjiang in the past, they were all local regimes within the territory of China,” one display says.
> 
> It’s written in English and Chinese. No Uyghur script is seen anywhere in the exhibit. Guns and bombs sit in glass cases, ones the exhibit says were confiscated from extremists.
> 
> A prim Uyghur woman in a Chinese traditional qipao suit presents a video depicting Beijing’s vision for Xinjiang’s future, where the sun sets over pagodas and a futuristic skyline. Many scenes look like they could be filmed anywhere in China.
> 
> “Our anti-terrorism and de-radicalization struggles have achieved remarkable results,” she says, in crisp Mandarin.
> 
> Officials dodge questions about how many Uyghurs were detained, though statistics showed an extraordinary spike in arrests before the government stopped releasing them in 2019. Instead, they tell us during the tour that they’ve engineered the perfect solution to terrorism, protecting Uyghur culture rather than destroying it.
> 
> One night, I was seated next to Dou Wangui, the Party Secretary of Aksu Prefecture, as well as Li Xuejun, the vice chairman of the Xinjiang People’s Congress. They are both Han Chinese, like most of Xinjiang’s powerful men.
> 
> Over grilled lamb and yogurt, we watched grinning Uyghurs dressed in traditional gowns dance and sing. Dou turns to me.
> 
> “See, we can’t have genocide here,” Dou said, gesturing to the performers. “We’re preserving their traditional culture.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terror & tourism: Xinjiang eases its grip, but fear remains
> 
> 
> XINJIANG, China (AP) — The razor wire that once ringed public buildings in China’s far northwestern Xinjiang region is nearly all gone. Gone, too, are the middle school uniforms in military camouflage and the armored personnel carriers rumbling around the homeland of the Uyghurs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com


They try to give readers an impression that Xinjiang is finally back to normal when Xinjiang is always normal, after years of smearing and slandering, they still can't find any evidence to back their lies up, so now they start to manage a plausible exit for their lies.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

kankan326 said:


> Tibetan famlies got free washing machines from government as the gift of 70th anniversary of Tibet liberation.



Why do you call it a liberation?


----------



## kankan326

Why would Jews tolerate that "genocide" accusation anyway? Which made their sufferings in ww2 to seem less miserable.


----------



## Beast

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Why do you call it a liberation?


Until now Kashmir still in oppression. It needs to be liberate.


----------



## kankan326

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Why do you call it a liberation?


Because majority Tibetans were slaves before PLA entered Tibet.


----------



## Abu Shaleh Rumi

beijingwalker said:


> Of course, China doesn't have many foreigners, especially in remote underdeveloped regions. and we are showing Chinese peoples life in Xinjiang, why we need foreigners in these videos?


Sir, the topic here is about chinese treatment of Uighurs. But, the vlogs you are posting features chinese lifestyle in Xinjiang. Uighurs are missing...


Beast said:


> He wouldn't raise a voice for Palestine. He is serving the Jews. Don't u know that? How can he betray his master?. He will only post Palestine as terrorist and they deserve to be bombed by air strike and Israel arty.


I still don't understand why americans unconditionally support israel! Especially illegal israeli activities! It is OK to support existence of israel but their illegal activities aren't.


Hamartia Antidote said:


> Do you really believe their answer for why only women and children are in that particular video and as people could interpret the walker as not being a Uighur.


I have already raised this question to @beijingwalker 


Hamartia Antidote said:


> How about the Lebanese instead? The Israelis severely damaged a friend of mines grandparent's house in an airstrike.


Fine. But, as you have raised the question about Chinese treatment of Uighurs you should do the same with Palestinian and Kashmiri issue.


----------



## Beast

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Sir, the topic here is about chinese treatment of Uighurs. But, the vlogs you are posting features chinese lifestyle in Xinjiang. Uighurs are missing...


Doesnt matter where those hyprocrite American decide to sanction over fake Uyghur gendercide accusation while fully back Israel mass bombing of Gaza strip and West Bank. And when Israel settelement keep encroaching Palestine land. These so called human right and free American keep quiet.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Sad Sad:
1


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## beijingwalker

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Sir, the topic here is about chinese treatment of Uighurs. But, the vlogs you are posting features chinese lifestyle in Xinjiang. Uighurs are missing...


But how can they have a lifestyle if they are missing....?


----------



## Abu Shaleh Rumi

beijingwalker said:


> But how can they have a lifestyle if they are missing....?


Exactly, Uighurs are missing in the vlog videos you have posted. And this thread is about Uighurs...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## beijingwalker

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Exactly, Uighurs are missing in the vlog videos you have posted. And this thread is about Uighurs...


Which video that I posted showing Uighurs are missing?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

beijingwalker said:


> Which video that I posted showing Uighurs are missing?


Almost everyone of them.


----------



## beijingwalker

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Almost everyone of them.


Most of the people in the videos are Uighurs, it seems that you have trouble telling the difference.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

beijingwalker said:


> Most of the people in the videos are Uighurs, it seems that you have trouble telling the difference.


Eh? They look chinese to me! Except couple of old guys can't see people with turkic feature and customs! And I cant recognize turkic words in the background noice, they seems chinese!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## beijingwalker

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Eh? They look chinese to me!


This is the point, you seem to know very little about central Asia, if you go to Kazakhstan, you may think everyone is Chinese.


Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> And I cant recognize turkic words in the background noice, they seems chinese!



All signs in Xinjiang are bilingual

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

beijingwalker said:


> This is the point, you seem to know very little about central Asia, if you go to Kazakhstan, you may think everyone is Chinese.


Ah, fair point...

BTW, I also noticed no women with Hijab or Abaya. Did chinese government baned islamic clothing? Even in Azerbaijan you will find some women with Islamic dress code...

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## beijingwalker

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Ah, fair point...
> 
> BTW, I also noticed no women with Hijab or Abaya. Did chinese government baned islamic clothing? Even in Azerbaijan you will find some women with Islamic dress code...



Rural Bazar ( market ) 2021, it's people's own choice whether to wear traditional clothes or head scarves, but I guess more and more people choose to wear casual clothing nowadays. Some older generations still tend to keep traditional ways for everything, but I highly doubt any younger population still choose to stick to them.

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## beijingwalker

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> BTW, I also noticed no women with Hijab or Abaya. Did chinese government baned islamic clothing? Even in Azerbaijan you will find some women with Islamic dress code...


Don't listen to stupid western propaganda, they claim China bans everything, destroys UIghur homes and even their tombs, harvests Uighur organs, takes away Uighur kids from their parents and sends officials to sleep with Uighur women, how pathetic..

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

beijingwalker said:


> Don't listen to stupid western propaganda, they claim China bans everything, destroys UIghur homes and even their tombs, harvests Uighur organs, takes away Uighur kids from their parents and sends officials to sleep with Uighur women, how pathetic..


Well, at least you should permit OIC delegation to "independently" investigate.

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## beijingwalker

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Well, at least you should permit OIC delegation to "independently" investigate.


China always welcomes foreingers to come to visit and see Xinjiang with their own eyes, see how people live, see how this place develops, seeing is believing.


Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Well, at least you should permit OIC delegation to "independently" investigate.


Funny, if China just randomly made some wild claims like US is committing genocide in California and demand "independent" investigation in California including their state prisons, do you think US will allow?

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## One_Nation

Its a very positive development as long as you are not harming the people as in that case it will all backfire.


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## fisher1

It is sad what is happening to Muslims both in Muslim countries and in non-Muslim countries. It is very difficult to be a Muslim and practice your religion today.

Poor uighurs, at least the Jews had a voice....the Uighurs holocaust is not even acknowledged meanwhile they suffer same or worst fate than Jews.


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## K_Bin_W

beijingwalker said:


> *Bole* as the official romanized name, also transliterated from Mongolian as *Bortala*, is a county-level town in Xinjiang, China. Bortala means "brown grasslands/steppe" in Mongolian.


When you post such videos you cause intense takleef for indians and their amreekan masas.


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## ozranger

Warning: please ignore the video if you feel uncomfortable at pool partying as of some disagreement coming from your personal choice of faith.
*Big pool parties in Xinjiang Aksu 06/2021*


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## Iñigo

"Poor uighurs, at least the Jews had a voice....the Uighurs holocaust is not even acknowledged meanwhile they suffer same or worst fate than Jews"

Wooow

This is The West

FantasyLand
A gigantic kindergarten

The reality is that in all normal countries the population of the territory controlled by a state is the citizenry ... But Biblical ideology establishes a brutal distinction between a "people (of lords)" and "the people of the land" who must be subdued.









Photos reveal brutal Israeli treatment of activists, farmers during olive harvest


The story behind the viral photo showing an armed soldier standing on the back of Mohammed al-Khatib — a Palestinian activist attempting to help farmers access their olive groves when he was attacked by Israeli forces.




mondoweiss.net


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## fisher1

Mav3rick said:


> So things that the US has been doing at Guantanamo Bay, right?



What kind of a Muslim defends the oppressors of Muslims? What America has done is wrong but it is limited in scale compared to what China is doing to Uighurs. Just because China has thrown a few pennies to Pakistan as "LOANS" doesn't mean that Muslims should side with the oppressors against Muslims.

Chinese are the most vicious and brutal people alive on earth today, they even make the Mongols look like good people. Mongols never tortured people for their religious beliefs or forced them to give up their religious beliefs

Chinese are the parasites of the brain going after the religious belief of Uighurs and the MEGA pig XinPIG feels threatened from unarmed Uighurs.


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## fisher1

PakFactor said:


> Oh shut up, I’m a Muslim and I don’t buy into this garage pumped out by Western media. The world isn’t that old we all forgot about the trained Kuwaiti Ambassador daughter and her drama of Iraqis soldiers taking babies out of incubators, and throwing them out the window. Lol.



Go to Kashgar and try to pray in a mosque (if you can find one) until then you should shut up and stop defending the mushrikeen who are forcing Muslims to become atheists. Uighuristan is right next to border of Pakistan and it won't cost anything, you can travel by car.

You are a Muslim but you don't represent all Muslims





.

kthnxbye


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## Reichsmarschall

@Hamartia Antidote what do you think about this whistle blower.


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> China always welcomes foreingers to come to visit and see Xinjiang with their own eyes, see how people live, see how this place develops, seeing is believing.



hahaaa

This Arab vlogger who visited Kashgar would disagree


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Just because China has thrown a few pennies to Pakistan as "LOANS" doesn't mean that Muslims should side with the oppressors against Muslims.


Don't have to single out Pakistan, not even one Muslim country sides with the west over their lies about Xinjiang, not even one. why do you only go after Pakistan?

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## fisher1

Reichsmarschall said:


> @Hamartia Antidote what do you think about this whistle blower.



Is the US going to war against China anytime soon? What's the point of Uighurs propaganda if US is doing trillions in trade with China?

US did go to war soon after Iraq misinformation so your post doesnt' make sense


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Is the US going to war against China anytime soon? What's the point of Uighurs propaganda if US is doing trillions in trade with China?
> 
> US did go to war soon after Iraq misinformation so your post doesnt' make sense


US politicians seem to have trouble to figure out where Xinjiang is. lol..

Trump state department spokesperson confused China and Japan when talking about the Olympics, suggesting Japan is persecuting Muslims in Xinjiang province in Japan. It shows how much US politicians know about countries they are consistently talking about.


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Don't have to single out Pakistan, not even one Muslim country sides with the west over their lies about Xinjiang, not even one. why do you only go after Pakistan?



That's incorrect. Turkey went strongly after China but China threatened economically and then Erdogan had to stop.

I live in Pakistan and here we are fed propaganda about Pakistan being fort of Islam with nuclear powers, bla bla...i think the fort of Islam should defend Muslims rather than defending Chinese for a few pennies. Also i don't know what other Muslim countries do.


beijingwalker said:


> US politicians seem to have trouble to figure out where Xinjiang is. lol..
> 
> Trump state department spokesperson confused China and Japan when talking about the Olympics, suggesting Japan is persecuting Muslims in Xinjiang province in Japan. It shows how much US politicians know about countries they are consistently talking about.



Who cares what US thinks?.

I know for a fact Chinese are obliterating Uighurs from other sources including people i know in real life.

The crackdown against Muslims is spreading in the whole of China.

Some other idiot might believe in your two cent army generated propaganda but i know the truth.

Shoo


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## Reichsmarschall

fisher1 said:


> Is the US going to war against China anytime soon?


USA is building a narative and shaping public opinions to lay groundwork for future misadventures. 
The point of my post was that anything coming from American loyalists should be taken with a whole truck load of salt, theyre not reliable and are known to lie to in their testimony.

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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> That's incorrect. Turkey went strongly after China but China threatened economically and then Erdogan had to stop.


Turkey didn't side with the west to sign a letter in US against China over Xinjiang, not even one Muslim country did.



*AP News Confirms NO Uyghur Genocide in Xinjiang China*





AP’s recent trip to Xinjiang, China has revealed not only zero evidence of “cultural genocide” but has exposed the lies the Western media (including AP) have told international audiences for years about the conditions in Xijinang and the treatment of the Uyghur people. Depending on the public’s ignorance and providing links AP is confident readers will not click on, explore, and discover the contradictions they present to their narrative, AP attempts to backpedal Western narratives to depict the peace and progress they witnessed in Xinjiang as an artificial facade for “invisible” oppression.

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## beijingwalker

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Why do you call it a liberation?


Why do Americans call Black emancipation? Most Tibetans were serfs before PRC.

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## MH.Yang

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Why do you call it a liberation?



Before PLA entered Tibet, these Tibetans were serfs. The PLA released all the serfs and the slave owners ran to India.

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## fisher1

Reichsmarschall said:


> USA is building a narative and shaping public opinions to lay groundwork for future misadventures.
> The point of my post was that anything coming from American loyalists should be taken with a whole truck load of salt, theyre not reliable and are known to lie to in their testimony.



US has its own agenda but that doesn't mean no concentration camps exist.

This Uighurs issue has been raised by credible people all over the world that are non-US including travelers to East Turkestan who have seen what happened to mosques by themselves and the region as a whole. 

US views are irrelevant at this point but Pakistanis love to beat the drum of previous wars to defend China which is pathetic. The worst type of logical fallacy


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## MH.Yang

fisher1 said:


> That's incorrect. Turkey went strongly after China but China threatened economically and then Erdogan had to stop.
> 
> I live in Pakistan and here we are fed propaganda about Pakistan being fort of Islam with nuclear powers, bla bla...i think the fort of Islam should defend Muslims rather than defending Chinese for a few pennies. Also i don't know what other Muslim countries do.
> 
> 
> Who cares what US thinks?.
> 
> I know for a fact Chinese are obliterating Uighurs from other sources including people i know in real life.
> 
> The crackdown against Muslims is spreading in the whole of China.
> 
> Some other idiot might believe in your two cent army generated propaganda but i know the truth.
> 
> Shoo



I searched your reply records and found that you are not interested in issues such as India and Afghanistan. You seem only interested in criticizing the Pakistani govt and China.
You never believe in any Chinese information, only the propaganda of the United States and India. Why?

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## fisher1

MH.Yang said:


> I searched your reply records and found that you are not interested in issues such as India and Afghanistan. You seem only interested in criticizing the Pakistani govt and China.
> You never believe in any Chinese information, only the propaganda of the United States and India. Why?



Nice try but we never established Uighurs holocaust as "the propaganda of the United States and India"

Please try to stick to the topic. I know the tactics two cent army are taught. It's pathetic and annoying


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> US views are irrelevant at this point but Pakistanis love to beat the drum of previous wars to defend China which is pathetic. The worst type of logical fallacy


Not even one Muslim country sides with the west over their lies about Xinjiang, not even one, why do you only go after Pakistan?

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## Reichsmarschall

fisher1 said:


> US has its own agenda but that doesn't mean no concentration camps exist.
> 
> This Uighurs issue has been raised by credible people all over the world that are non-US including travelers to East Turkestan who have seen what happened to mosques by themselves and the region as a whole.
> 
> US views are irrelevant at this point but Pakistanis love to beat the drum of previous wars to defend China which is pathetic. The worst type of logical fallacy


It's the other way around actually, some Pakistani owing to their colonial background and gora sahb complex love to act as shills for empire and gobble down everthing thing that trickles down from imperial sources. 
The independent sources you talk of are none other than CIA affiliated NED and RadioLiberty(which is banned in Pakistan) for their attempts to ignite a racial war.

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## beijingwalker

*Ambassadors of Palestine and Saudi Arabia talk about their experiences in Xinjiang






SCO Secretary-General Vladimir Norov talks about Xinjiang after visiting the region with 20+ foregin ambassadors*

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## MH.Yang

fisher1 said:


> Nice try but we never established Uighurs holocaust as "the propaganda of the United States and India"
> 
> Please try to stick to the topic. I know the tactics two cent army are taught. It's pathetic and annoying



First of all, my question is why are you not very interested in posts from India and Afghanistan? For example, why are you not interested in the recent news about the photos of Indian prisoners of war and the establishment of the Taliban govt?

Secondly, what do you think China should do to prove the rumors about Uighurs?




fisher1 said:


> Go to Kashgar and try to pray in a mosque (if you can find one) until then you should shut up and stop defending the mushrikeen who are forcing Muslims to become atheists. Uighuristan is right next to border of Pakistan and it won't cost anything, you can travel by car.


You see, you also admit that the road to Xinjiang is unimpeded. If Uighur rumors are true, why doesn't China block access to Xinjiang? You can see how India blocks Kashmir.

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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Pakistanis love to beat the drum of previous wars to defend China which is pathetic. The worst type of logical fallacy


You should go against the whole Muslim world, not just Pakistan.

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## fisher1

Reichsmarschall said:


> It's the other way around actually, some Pakistani owing to their colonial background and gora sahb complex love to act as shills for empire and gobble down everthing thing that trickles down from imperial sources.
> The independent sources you talk of are none other than CIA affiliated NED and RadioLiberty(which is banned in Pakistan) for their attempts to ignite a racial war.



Did you just assume what sources i am talking about? lol.


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## PakSword

beijingwalker said:


> *Ambassadors of Palestine and Saudi Arabia talk about their experiences in Xinjiang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SCO Secretary-General Vladimir Norov talks about Xinjiang after visiting the region with 20+ foregin ambassadors*


Yes, it's a propaganda against China.

CIA is very famous in shaping a narrative that helps its objectives. For example, these westerners bombed Iraq into rubble after propagating lies about the weapons of mass destruction. Nothing came out out of Iraq. Unfortunately, even Muslim countries believed that lie so much that none said a word against NATO bombing of a country that was even allowing the international inspectors into its facilities.

Same is happening against China, and the American and Indian boot lickers among Muslims are believing them again. But China is not Iraq. Nothing came out of the trade war imposed by the west and no one will dare to attack China. It's just war of words and media propaganda, that will lead to nothing.

China is doing the right thing, by allowing the ambassadors of Muslim countries to visit Xinjiang. This will definitely help in killing the propaganda of Western boot lickers in Muslim ranks.

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## fisher1

MH.Yang said:


> First of all, my question is why are you not very interested in posts from India and Afghanistan? For example, why are you not interested in the recent news about the photos of Indian prisoners of war and the establishment of the Taliban govt?
> 
> Secondly, what do you think China should do to prove the rumors about Uighurs?
> 
> 
> You see, you also admit that the road to Xinjiang is unimpeded. If Uighur rumors are true, why doesn't China block access to Xinjiang? You can see how India blocks Kashmir.



I think both talibans and indian governments are piece of ..... and China will never go to war with India because China is ruled by a fat winnie the flu who will never allow his tyrannical regime to be put in danger and is only capable of oppressing the unarmed powerless Chinese population. Same story with Taiwan, it's all just endless blabber.

Nobody ever said travel to the Muslim cities is blocked. That's absurd.

Are you seriously comparing Kashmir to Xinjiang now? Kashmir is a disputed warzone region with heavy military presence, Xinjiang isn't a warzone.

The video i linked in earlier post from a nobody vlogger shows what China actually does inside the region.

China should stop oppressing Uighurs, the rumors will die down. Until then, truth will keep coming out one way or another.


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> The video i linked in earlier post from a nobody vlogger shows what China actually does inside the region.


I can provide thousands of those videos from nobody vloggers, just check out that Xinjiang mega thread.


beijingwalker said:


> Trump state department spokesperson confused China and Japan when talking about the Olympics, suggesting Japan is persecuting Muslims in Xinjiang province in Japan. It shows how much US politicians know about countries they are consistently talking about.


If one believe western politicians and media, they should also believe Xinjiang is in Japan.


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## Globenim

These U.S. state propaganda mouthpieces are just going for a last ditch until the Winter Olympics because they will look twice as dumb when tourism fully revives and people from all over the world start drowning media with content from West China again

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> I can provide thousands of those videos from nobody vloggers, just check out that Xinjiang mega thread.



Showing what? people dancing? unislamic clothing? no mosques? no prayers?

The videos you post stink so badly of propaganda, i doubt those people even know what a Muslim is lol


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## Reichsmarschall

fisher1 said:


> Did you just assume what sources i am talking about? lol.


So you don't even know where your sources get their news from.


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## TOTUU

fisher1 said:


> Showing what? people dancing? unislamic clothing? no mosques? no prayers?
> 
> The videos you post stink so badly of propaganda, i doubt those people even know what a Muslim is lol




You help the West and India propagate hate against China every day, aren't you tired of doing that? Is your life as you wish? You put up 2 Pakistani flags, but all your comments look like you're serving India and the West! If you are really Pakistani and have time to post so many replies, why don't you just go to Xinjiang and have a look, it's easy for Pakistanis to go to Xinjiang without any restrictions. Every day there are countless Pakistanis in all provinces and cities of China, including Xinjiang. There are also Xinjiang people who take a lot of videos on tiktok every day. Do you have no conscience when you are lying and creating hate like this every day?

*Take a look at the life of the Chinese*





























Finally, I would like to say a word, we in China since ancient times is not a religious country, religion for us Chinese, is equivalent to a song, a movie, you can choose according to your preferences, but also according to your preferences to discard, at the same time, people simply do not care what religion you are, and there will be no parents believe in what religion, the children have to believe in what religion. Whereas in many countries, there is basically no freedom to choose a religion, and children have to believe in the religion of their parents or the state 。。。。 *Trump*, for example, he believes in Christianity, not by his own choice, but by the decision of his parents or the social environment in which he lives. I don't know if you've ever had a choice, but it's true that people in most countries don't have the power or freedom to choose a religion .







In China it is the state over religion, while in some countries it is religion over state. It is because China is the state over religion that China is a country of freedom of religion, and everyone can believe in religion at any time and change religion at any time. But in countries where religion is greater than the state, it is not so easy. For example, in Christian countries, Islam is inevitably suppressed, even if their constitutions have such provisions as freedom of religion as in China.

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## shi12jun

TOTUU said:


> You help the West and India propagate hate against China every day, aren't you tired of doing that? Is your life as you wish? You put up 2 Pakistani flags, but all your comments look like you're serving India and the West! If you are really Pakistani and have time to post so many replies, why don't you just go to Xinjiang and have a look, it's easy for Pakistanis to go to Xinjiang without any restrictions. Every day there are countless Pakistanis in all provinces and cities of China, including Xinjiang. There are also Xinjiang people who take a lot of videos on tiktok every day. Do you have no conscience when you are lying and creating hate like this every day?
> 
> *Take a look at the life of the Chinese*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I would like to say a word, we in China since ancient times is not a religious country, religion for us Chinese, is equivalent to a song, a movie, you can choose according to your preferences, but also according to your preferences to discard, at the same time, people simply do not care what religion you are, and there will be no parents believe in what religion, the children have to believe in what religion. Whereas in many countries, there is basically no freedom to choose a religion, and children have to believe in the religion of their parents or the state 。。。。 *Trump*, for example, he believes in Christianity, not by his own choice, but by the decision of his parents or the social environment in which he lives. I don't know if you've ever had a choice, but it's true that people in most countries don't have the power or freedom to choose a religion .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In China it is the state over religion, while in some countries it is religion over state. It is because China is the state over religion that China is a country of freedom of religion, and everyone can believe in religion at any time and change religion at any time. But in countries where religion is greater than the state, it is not so easy. For example, in Christian countries, Islam is inevitably suppressed, even if their constitutions have such provisions as freedom of religion as in China.


*No amount of nonsense to talk to him is useless, he is an East Turkistan. Resolute anti-China rubbish.*
*For those anti-China garbage, the truth is only within the range of the cannon. As long as China's economy and military continue to develop. These anti-China garbage is just a mosquito to China.     *

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## MH.Yang

fisher1 said:


> I think both talibans and indian governments are piece of ..... and China will never go to war with India because China is ruled by a fat winnie the flu who will never allow his tyrannical regime to be put in danger and is only capable of oppressing the unarmed powerless Chinese population. Same story with Taiwan, it's all just endless blabber.
> 
> Nobody ever said travel to the Muslim cities is blocked. That's absurd.
> 
> Are you seriously comparing Kashmir to Xinjiang now? Kashmir is a disputed warzone region with heavy military presence, Xinjiang isn't a warzone.
> 
> The video i linked in earlier post from a nobody vlogger shows what China actually does inside the region.
> 
> China should stop oppressing Uighurs, the rumors will die down. Until then, truth will keep coming out one way or another.




If you really want to know about a country, you should not pass the articles of Western media. It depends on what the country is doing. 

1. There are 25000 mosques in Xinjiang, while there are only 2000 mosques in the USA.
2, In 1990, the Uighur population was 7.2 million, and in 2021, the Uighur population was 11.3 million, an increase of 57%. In 1990, China's population was 1133.7 million. In 2021, China's population was 1411.7 million, an increase of 24%.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs 
3, China and Pakistan have established diplomatic relations for more than 70 years, and we have never betrayed Pakistan. In 1987, China helped Saudi Arabia build ICBM, and we has never betrayed Saudi Arabia. We help Iran when it needs help most. We have always supported Palestine at the UN and are its strongest supporters. As the P5 of the UN, we oppose the war in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.
We have never betrayed any Islamic country. Are there not enough Islamic countries betrayed and hurt by the west? 
4, 10 countries where China's B & R focuses on Investment: Pakistan, Iran, Indonesia, Nigeria, Sudan, Malaysia, Russia, Singapore, UAE and Kazakhstan. Eight of them are Islamic countries. The investment is expected to exceed $4 trillion in 20 years. Well, the west you trust has also invested heavily in Islamic countries. Among them, USA invested $2 trillion in Iraq and $3 trillion in Afghanistan. It's just that they pay with drone bombs. 

Whether you treat Chinese people as friends or not, China treats Muslims as friends. If Islamic countries are hostile to China, Islamic countries will not benefit. Only Islamic's enemies will smile. The rumors that China oppresses Muslims all come from the enemies of Islam. Why would you rather trust your enemies than China?

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## shi12jun

MH.Yang said:


> I even suspect that he is not a Muslim.
> I noticed that many Muslim friends like to quote the Koran when chatting. I searched his reply records, and he didn't.
> I suspect he is Indian.


他不是印度人，我在这个论坛几年了，每次都是他在攻击中国攻击新疆话题几乎没变过。我个人认为他是东突疆独的一份子。也是中国人民的敌人。对敌人讲道理是没用的。


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## MH.Yang

shi12jun said:


> 他不是印度人，我在这个论坛几年了，每次都是他在攻击中国攻击新疆话题几乎没变过。我个人认为他是东突疆独的一份子。也是中国人民的敌人。对敌人讲道理是没用的。



You're right. I shouldn't make a judgment without evidence.


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## beijingwalker

*Visit government provided houses to local Tajiks in Pamir Plateau in Xinjiang*

Visit government provided houses to local Tajiks in Pamir Plateau in Xinjiang. This Pamir region is the only Chinese territory that borders 3 different countries, Pakistan, Tajikstan and Afghanistan. The alpine terrain is extremely harsh but these Chinese government provided houses are very beautiful with all modern facilities and equipment. The guest is very impressed by these beautiful houses surrounded by the nearby snow mountains, what a sight to behold!


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## Itachi

beijingwalker said:


> *Hotan town in southern Xinjiang, can you imagine it is actually a desert town?*



Kek....."incredibly fast development" in other words the CCP turned Xinjiang into a tourist destination for rich Han Chinese whereas the local Uyghur population still lives in their old houses in the old city.

Kashgar:












Burqin:





You gotta do better to earn that social credit.


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## beijingwalker

Itachi said:


> Kek....."incredibly fast development" in other words the CCP turned Xinjiang into a tourist destination for rich Han Chinese whereas the local Uyghur population still lives in their old houses in the old city.
> 
> Kashgar:
> 
> View attachment 785583
> 
> 
> View attachment 785584



Old photos from decades ago? This is Kashgar old town, it had been completely rebuilt and now every house in Kashgar old town can withstand 8.5 richter scale earthquake, can your house do it?

*Inspiration. Dealing with Xinjiang Kashgar old town earthquake vulnerable old houses*

Kashgar, Xinjiang, is a very earthquake active region, houses in Kashgar old town are beautiful with over 1000 years long history but they can't withstand even minor earthquakes. Local Uighur people refuse to move to the earthquake resistant new houses built by the government in the suburbs cause they have lived in those old house for generations. See how Chinese architects' inspirational way to deal with this issue.





*Today's Kashgar old town




*


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## Char

beijingwalker said:


> Old photos from decades ago? This is Kashgar old town, it had been completely rebuilt and now every house in Kashgar old town can withstand 8.5 richter scale earthquake, can your house do it?
> 
> *Inspiration. Dealing with Xinjiang Kashgar old town earthquake vulnerable old houses*
> 
> Kashgar, Xinjiang, is a very earthquake active region, houses in Kashgar old town are beautiful with over 1000 years long history but they can't withstand even minor earthquakes. Local Uighur people refuse to move to the earthquake resistant new houses built by the government in the suburbs cause they have lived in those old house for generations. See how Chinese architects' inspirational way to deal with this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Today's Kashgar old town
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



You have been blocked again! what's the situation?


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## Hamartia Antidote

Reichsmarschall said:


> @Hamartia Antidote what do you think about this whistle blower.



Are you reinforcing the bigoted stereotype that Asian Muslim words are inherently untrustworthy by equating this to the Uighur issue?


----------



## Mav3rick

fisher1 said:


> What kind of a Muslim defends the oppressors of Muslims? What America has done is wrong but it is limited in scale compared to what China is doing to Uighurs. Just because China has thrown a few pennies to Pakistan as "LOANS" doesn't mean that Muslims should side with the oppressors against Muslims.
> 
> Chinese are the most vicious and brutal people alive on earth today, they even make the Mongols look like good people. Mongols never tortured people for their religious beliefs or forced them to give up their religious beliefs
> 
> Chinese are the parasites of the brain going after the religious belief of Uighurs and the MEGA pig XinPIG feels threatened from unarmed Uighurs.



I was responding to the poster on the lines of a kettle calling a pot black. The US has a longer and larger history of human rights abuse to the point where they had to actually move out of the mainland US to avoid legal issues arising out of human right violations. It does not at all mean that China should not be condemned for human right abuses, if there are any. 

Having said all that, we Muslims are the most vicious and brutal humans on Earth, there is none other who can beat us in this regard. We Muslims subjugate and kill more Muslims than any other human on Earth can; some of the Muslims countries have human right violations which are not only the worst on any index, they are outright inhumane and evil. And lately, some of the Muslims countries have been very good at making others go to war with Muslims countries with which they have a problem, religious, border etc.

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## Brainsucker

So I see the vote. Should Pakistan support East Turkistan movement and break their ties with China?


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## fisher1

^That's propaganda

Meanwhile this is what happens in a communist run tyrannical state

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449443195478282244


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## silverox

Itachi said:


> Kek....."incredibly fast development" in other words the CCP turned Xinjiang into a tourist destination for rich Han Chinese whereas the local Uyghur population still lives in their old houses in the old city.
> 
> Kashgar:
> 
> View attachment 785583
> 
> 
> View attachment 785584
> 
> 
> Burqin:
> 
> View attachment 785586
> 
> You gotta do better to earn that social credit.





Uighurs are supposed to live in their old houses, what's wrong with that?If the government demolished the squalid mud houses and rebuilt them, Uighur separatists and opinion leaders like MEMBERS of Congress, as well as various human rights groups, would call it genocide, or at least cultural genocide


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## Beast



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## beijingwalker

* Relocated villagers in Xinjiang enjoy warm, comfy winter with access to power grid*


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## Daniel808

*Kashgar is the westernmost city in China, can you believe that it just 300km away from Afghanistan?
America has destroyed Afghanistan, now they try to mess up Xinjiang. No way!*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454067713630892036


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## aziqbal

*Xinjiang: Twitter closes thousands of China state-linked accounts spreading propaganda*
Content was often ‘embarrassingly’ produced and pumped out via repurposed accounts, analysts say




Twitter found China state-linked accounts were publishing propaganda to counter evidence of internment camps in Xinjiang. Photograph: Greg Baker/AFP/Getty Images

Helen Davidson
@heldavidson
Fri 3 Dec 2021 05.16 GMT



Twitter has shut down thousands of state-linked accounts in China that seek to counter evidence of human rights abuses in Xinjiang, as part of what experts called an “embarrassingly” produced propaganda operation.
The operations used photos and images, shell and potentially automated accounts, and fake Uyghur profiles, to disseminate state propaganda and fake testimonials about their happy lives in the region, seeking to dispel evidence of a years-long campaign of oppression, with mass internments, re-education programs, and allegations of forced labour and sterilisation.




Airbnb allegedly hosts Xinjiang rentals on land owned by sanctioned group
Read more
The networks were found to share themes and content, but often used repurposed accounts dedicated to pornography or Korean soap operas with little engagement except when they were amplified by Chinese diplomats and officials. Twitter is banned inside China but officials frequently operate accounts overseas.
According to analysts at thinktank the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), the content from the 2,160 accounts that Twitter closed down was often “embarrassingly” produced but provided a level of “implausible deniability” which muddied the waters around the issue.
The accounts linked to Chinese operations were in two sets, the largest being a network of 2,048 accounts amplifying the Chinese Communist party’s narratives related to Xinjiang, and the second set of 112 accounts connected to “Changyu Culture,” a private company that ASPI said appeared to be contracted by the Xinjiang regional authority to create videos of Uyghurs supporting the government.
Advertisement

More than 30,000 tweets from each network were identified, frequently responding to other tweets labelling evidence of abuses as “lies” under the hashtag #StopXinjiangRumours or sharing videos they claimed were “the truth” of Xinjiang, or targeting foreign politicians while claiming to be a Uyghur person.
When the data were analysed byASPI, it found much of it linked to pornography, Korean soap opera fans, and spam accounts and content. “That’s most likely because they’ve taken over these existing accounts and repurposed them,” said ASPI senior analyst Fergus Ryan.
“They take them over and pump out this content that’s generally quite reactive … It’s so ham-handed, and really not done very well. One of the really weird things about one data set was that for some unknown reason they include hundreds of tweets with this handle for an account @fuck_next.”
The tweets also repeatedly mis-tagged the account of former US secretary of state Mike Pompeo, and many videos linked to the now-suspended Changyu Culture YouTube channel, which is known to be a marketing outfit backed by the Xinjiang provincial authorities.
The result was a torrent of highly implausible propaganda, obvious to most eyes but still a cause for concern, said ASPI.
ASPI found 97% of the identified accounts had fewer than five followers, and 73% of accounts had zero. While 98% of tweets had no likes or retweets, the remainder were often boosted by Chinese diplomats and officials, spreading the content and giving it legitimacy.
“The target is not actually people who are sceptical of the Chinese government, but is giving content to people who trust Chinese state media and are sceptical of western mainstream media,” said ASPI researcher Albert Zhang. “It’s propaganda appealing to the base.”
ASPI’s report said the propaganda campaign reflected the likely direction of future information operations by the Chinese Communist party (CCP). However, Zhang and Ryan also said it also showed there might be a lack of understanding by Chinese propaganda and media purveyors about what is believable or legitimate – as was showcased last month with attempts to rebut concerns about tennis star Peng Shuai.
Ryan said a portmanteau term originally ascribed to China’s surveillance system – “Chabudwellian” – also applied here, combining “Orwellian” with the Chinese term “cha bu duo”, which means “almost” but is often used to describe something done with poor or minimal effort.
“Outside of China, foreigners think their surveillance system is highly sophisticated … but in reality a lot of the time this infrastructure is gerry-rigged and not super effective,” said Ryan. “That can apply to the information campaigns as well.”









Xinjiang: Twitter closes thousands of China state-linked accounts spreading propaganda


Content was often ‘embarrassingly’ produced and pumped out via repurposed accounts, analysts say




www.theguardian.com

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## Globenim

Remember *Twitter*, Facebook and YouTube hire so called independent third parties to identify or rather label people as state affiliated. Those happen to include U.S. regime created and funded and even military linked selfproclaimed "non-government" organizations *like the infamous U.S government and U.S. military industry funded Australian Strategic Policy Institue (ASPI) hired by Twitter *

Who now decide that a random streamer girl in West China is state linked propaganda simply because her very existence contradicts U.S. regime popaganda lies about China.

Yet U.S. regime created and U.S.regime funded disinformation networks, with an explicit public agenda to serve the strategic and economic interests of the U.S. regime, with management full of "former" CIA and other U.S. government official, whos editors pump out only U.S. regime propaganda all day and nothing else, like Radio Free Asia or Radio Free Europe, those continue to be classified as independent media.

*The icing on the cake: Twitter labels U.S. regime funded ASPI itself as a non-government-linked organization *while it receives funding from the U.S. regime and even the Japanese and Australian governments and does nothing but serve U.S. strategic interests with spreading disinformation and fake reports.

*The U.S. regime is defacto censoring Twitter*, Facebook and YouTube with abuse of "state linked propaganda" claims that need zero evidence and I wouldnt put it past them staging their own all too visible fake raids with their own botfarms without the knowledge of Twitter, Facebook and YouTube just to keep their China narratives in the heads of their domestic population and is halfassing any attempt to hide it beacuse their domestic population is already so brainwashed and caught up inside their propaganda bubble the wouldnt bother if it hits them in the face..

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## REhorror

Twitter is banned in China anyway, I don't see the point.


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## Dungeness

Shut up! We are talking about the "Freedom of Speech" here!

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## ARMalik

Oh well, Don't worry China will open another few million accounts on Twitter. *IT IS EASIER TO CREATE AN ACCOUNT THAN TO CLOSE IT*!!!  And not only this - *Both Twitter and Facebook are banned in China. *


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## beijingwalker

Freedom of speech....


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## Han-Tang

I know I know， pro-China speech does not belong to freedom speech.
My account got banned by tweeter because of it. 
then I registered a new one, and just watched some po*n video there.

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## beijingwalker

Han-Tang said:


> My account got banned by tweeter because of it.


LOl, I don't even have one, not interested at all.


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## vi-va

I was thinking it's possible that Trump indeed was Russia's proxy, because Twitter deleted his account as well.

Trump spreads more propaganda than so-called China state-linked accounts combined. 
It's true, not kidding.

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## aziqbal

*China committed genocide against Uyghurs, independent tribunal rules*
By Joel Gunter
BBC News

Published8 hours ago
Share




IMAGE SOURCE, PA MEDIA
Image caption, 
Uyghurs have staged protests in London urging the government to accuse China of genocide
*China has committed genocide against the Uyghur people in Xinjiang, an unofficial UK-based tribunal has found.*
The Uyghur Tribunal cited birth control and sterilisation measures allegedly carried out by the state against the Uyghurs as the primary reason for reaching its conclusion on Thursday.
Sir Geoffrey Nice, a prominent British barrister who chaired the tribunal hearings, said its panel was satisfied China had carried out "a deliberate, systematic and concerted policy" to bring about "long-term reduction of Uyghur and other ethnic minority populations". He added that the panel believed senior officials including the Chinese president Xi Jinping bore "primary responsibility" for the abuses against Muslim minorities in the Xinjiang region.
The tribunal's panel was made up of lawyers and academics. Its findings have no legal force and are not binding on ministers, but its organisers said at the outset they intended to add to the body of evidence around the allegations against China and reach an independent conclusion on the question of genocide.
The Chinese government denies all accusations of human rights abuses in Xinjiang. Responding to the tribunal's ruling on Thursday, a spokesman told the BBC the body was a "pseudo tribunal" and a "political tool used by a few anti-China elements to deceive and mislead the public".

Uyghur imams targeted in Xinjiang crackdown
The cost of speaking up against China
Who are the Uyghurs?
Reading the tribunal's judgement, Sir Geoffrey said there was "no evidence of mass killings" in Xinjiang, but he said that the alleged efforts to prevent births amounted to genocidal intent. The panel also said it had found evidence of crimes against humanity, torture, and sexual violence against the Uyghur people.
Speaking to the BBC after the judgment, Sir Iain Duncan Smith, the former Conservative Party leader and co-chair of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, said it was time for the UK government to accuse China of genocide.
"The British government said the evidence needed to be assessed by a competent court, well it doesn't get more competent than this," he said.
"The government now needs to stop messing around. The genocide taking place in Xinjiang has got to dominate our relationship with China."
Conservative MP Nus Ghani called the conclusion of the tribunal "groundbreaking".
"This tribunal was set up to the highest legal standards and the evidence that that was put forward today shows that there is enough proof beyond reasonable doubt that there was an intent to commit genocide," she told the BBC. 
"What is particularly troubling is the evidence that this genocide is in particular targeted at women, and focused on preventing births."
The Chinese state has been accused of crimes against humanity and genocide in Xinjiang, a large region in the country's north-west which is home to the Uyghurs and other minority Muslim groups.
Experts say that at least a million Uyghurs and other Muslims have been detained in the region and held in extra-judicial camps or sent to prisons. Former detainees and residents of Xinjiang have made allegations of torture, forced sterilisation and sexual abuse.




Image caption, 
Sir Geoffrey Nice QC, who led the prosecution of Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic, chaired the tribunal's hearings
The Uyghur Tribunal heard from more than 70 witnesses over two sets of hearings in London in June and September, including former detainees and experts. Among the witnesses was the Uyghur linguist Abduweli Ayup, who testified about the harassment of his family in Xinjiang and the 15-month sentence imposed on him in his absence for inciting terrorism - a common allegation levelled by the Chinese state against Uyghurs.
Mr Ayup told the BBC the finding of genocide was "very encouraging". 
"I was sentenced by the Chinese government, now I hope after this ruling someone can sentence them. Many Uyghurs have been sent to prison only for being Uyghur, now it is time their oppressors are also sentenced," he said.
The issue of whether China's alleged abuses amount to a genocide has divided the international community. The US government has accused China of a genocide against the Uyghurs, and the parliaments of the UK, Canada, the Netherlands, and Lithuania have passed resolutions making the same declaration. 
But the UK government has declined to accuse China of genocide. Prime Minister Boris Johnson has argued that genocide is a specific term with legal force that should only be determined by a criminal court.
The case for genocide is based on reports that China is taking steps to erase the culture of the Uyghurs and assimilate or diminish the population through programmes of forced relocation and birth control.
In a report published in April, the US-based charity Human Rights Watch concluded that China was responsible for crimes against humanity in Xinjiang - but stopped short of calling the state's actions a genocide. 
Amnesty International reached the same conclusion in its own report.

Media caption, 
Erbakit Otarbay, an ethnic Kazakh, describes being subjected to forced labour, indoctrination and beatings in Xinjiang
The Uyghur Tribunal was established by Sir Geoffrey at the urging of the World Uyghur Congress, a global activist group. The president of the WUC, Dolkun Isa, told the BBC the tribunal's judgment represented a "historic day" for the Uyghur people.
"Now there is no excuse for the international community to continue its silence on the Uyghur genocide," he said. "It is the legal obligation of all countries who signed the 1948 genocide convention to take legal action."
Reading the judgment on Thursday, Sir Geoffrey said the tribunal had formed in part because no international criminal court had taken up an investigation into the alleged abuses in Xinjiang. 
The International Criminal Court announced in December last year that it would not investigate the allegations because China, as a non-member, was outside of its jurisdiction. 
Meanwhile, the International Court of Justice can only take a case that has been approved by the UN Security Council, over which China has veto power.
"Had any other body, domestic or international, determined or sought to determine these issues, the tribunal would have been unnecessary," Sir Geoffrey said.
The tribunal's final report follows announcement by the US, UK and Canadian government of diplomatic boycotts of the Winter Olympics in China next year. 
Mr Johnson said on Wednesday that the UK, like the US and Canada, would not pursue a sporting boycott of the games. 










China committed genocide against Uyghurs, independent tribunal rules


A London-based unofficial tribunal says China is deliberately preventing births among Uyghurs.



www.bbc.co.uk

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## casual

"independent" tribunal made up of CIA paid Uyghur separatists

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5


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## Myth_buster_1

aziqbal said:


> *China committed genocide against Uyghurs, independent tribunal rules*
> By Joel Gunter
> BBC News
> 
> Published8 hours ago
> Share
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, PA MEDIA
> Image caption,
> Uyghurs have staged protests in London urging the government to accuse China of genocide
> *China has committed genocide against the Uyghur people in Xinjiang, an unofficial UK-based tribunal has found.*
> The Uyghur Tribunal cited birth control and sterilisation measures allegedly carried out by the state against the Uyghurs as the primary reason for reaching its conclusion on Thursday.
> Sir Geoffrey Nice, a prominent British barrister who chaired the tribunal hearings, said its panel was satisfied China had carried out "a deliberate, systematic and concerted policy" to bring about "long-term reduction of Uyghur and other ethnic minority populations". He added that the panel believed senior officials including the Chinese president Xi Jinping bore "primary responsibility" for the abuses against Muslim minorities in the Xinjiang region.
> The tribunal's panel was made up of lawyers and academics. Its findings have no legal force and are not binding on ministers, but its organisers said at the outset they intended to add to the body of evidence around the allegations against China and reach an independent conclusion on the question of genocide.
> The Chinese government denies all accusations of human rights abuses in Xinjiang. Responding to the tribunal's ruling on Thursday, a spokesman told the BBC the body was a "pseudo tribunal" and a "political tool used by a few anti-China elements to deceive and mislead the public".
> 
> Uyghur imams targeted in Xinjiang crackdown
> The cost of speaking up against China
> Who are the Uyghurs?
> Reading the tribunal's judgement, Sir Geoffrey said there was "no evidence of mass killings" in Xinjiang, but he said that the alleged efforts to prevent births amounted to genocidal intent. The panel also said it had found evidence of crimes against humanity, torture, and sexual violence against the Uyghur people.
> Speaking to the BBC after the judgment, Sir Iain Duncan Smith, the former Conservative Party leader and co-chair of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, said it was time for the UK government to accuse China of genocide.
> "The British government said the evidence needed to be assessed by a competent court, well it doesn't get more competent than this," he said.
> "The government now needs to stop messing around. The genocide taking place in Xinjiang has got to dominate our relationship with China."
> Conservative MP Nus Ghani called the conclusion of the tribunal "groundbreaking".
> "This tribunal was set up to the highest legal standards and the evidence that that was put forward today shows that there is enough proof beyond reasonable doubt that there was an intent to commit genocide," she told the BBC.
> "What is particularly troubling is the evidence that this genocide is in particular targeted at women, and focused on preventing births."
> The Chinese state has been accused of crimes against humanity and genocide in Xinjiang, a large region in the country's north-west which is home to the Uyghurs and other minority Muslim groups.
> Experts say that at least a million Uyghurs and other Muslims have been detained in the region and held in extra-judicial camps or sent to prisons. Former detainees and residents of Xinjiang have made allegations of torture, forced sterilisation and sexual abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image caption,
> Sir Geoffrey Nice QC, who led the prosecution of Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic, chaired the tribunal's hearings
> The Uyghur Tribunal heard from more than 70 witnesses over two sets of hearings in London in June and September, including former detainees and experts. Among the witnesses was the Uyghur linguist Abduweli Ayup, who testified about the harassment of his family in Xinjiang and the 15-month sentence imposed on him in his absence for inciting terrorism - a common allegation levelled by the Chinese state against Uyghurs.
> Mr Ayup told the BBC the finding of genocide was "very encouraging".
> "I was sentenced by the Chinese government, now I hope after this ruling someone can sentence them. Many Uyghurs have been sent to prison only for being Uyghur, now it is time their oppressors are also sentenced," he said.
> The issue of whether China's alleged abuses amount to a genocide has divided the international community. The US government has accused China of a genocide against the Uyghurs, and the parliaments of the UK, Canada, the Netherlands, and Lithuania have passed resolutions making the same declaration.
> But the UK government has declined to accuse China of genocide. Prime Minister Boris Johnson has argued that genocide is a specific term with legal force that should only be determined by a criminal court.
> The case for genocide is based on reports that China is taking steps to erase the culture of the Uyghurs and assimilate or diminish the population through programmes of forced relocation and birth control.
> In a report published in April, the US-based charity Human Rights Watch concluded that China was responsible for crimes against humanity in Xinjiang - but stopped short of calling the state's actions a genocide.
> Amnesty International reached the same conclusion in its own report.
> 
> Media caption,
> Erbakit Otarbay, an ethnic Kazakh, describes being subjected to forced labour, indoctrination and beatings in Xinjiang
> The Uyghur Tribunal was established by Sir Geoffrey at the urging of the World Uyghur Congress, a global activist group. The president of the WUC, Dolkun Isa, told the BBC the tribunal's judgment represented a "historic day" for the Uyghur people.
> "Now there is no excuse for the international community to continue its silence on the Uyghur genocide," he said. "It is the legal obligation of all countries who signed the 1948 genocide convention to take legal action."
> Reading the judgment on Thursday, Sir Geoffrey said the tribunal had formed in part because no international criminal court had taken up an investigation into the alleged abuses in Xinjiang.
> The International Criminal Court announced in December last year that it would not investigate the allegations because China, as a non-member, was outside of its jurisdiction.
> Meanwhile, the International Court of Justice can only take a case that has been approved by the UN Security Council, over which China has veto power.
> "Had any other body, domestic or international, determined or sought to determine these issues, the tribunal would have been unnecessary," Sir Geoffrey said.
> The tribunal's final report follows announcement by the US, UK and Canadian government of diplomatic boycotts of the Winter Olympics in China next year.
> Mr Johnson said on Wednesday that the UK, like the US and Canada, would not pursue a sporting boycott of the games.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China committed genocide against Uyghurs, independent tribunal rules
> 
> 
> A London-based unofficial tribunal says China is deliberately preventing births among Uyghurs.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk



Great, now boycott china and return ur jf17 alkhalid frigates subs trucks missiles and ur underwear which r all made in china.

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## Titanium100

casual said:


> "independent" tribunal made up of CIA paid Uyghur separatists



I know right not even worth wasting time on such articles

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## ZeEa5KPul

casual said:


> "independent" tribunal made up of CIA paid Uyghur separatists


Exactly. Who said this was an "independent" tribunal? What exactly is it independent of and how does it prove said independence?

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## Dungeness

LOL, " China has committed genocide against the Uyghur people in Xinjiang,* an unofficial UK-based tribunal *has found" *.*

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## Trango Towers

I have no doubt China is commitung atrocities but why is the west quiet about Palestine??? Kashmir ??? What they did in Iraq Afghanistan Syria?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## peagle

aziqbal said:


> *China committed genocide against Uyghurs, independent tribunal rules*
> By Joel Gunter
> BBC News
> 
> Published8 hours ago
> Share
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, PA MEDIA
> Image caption,
> Uyghurs have staged protests in London urging the government to accuse China of genocide
> *China has committed genocide against the Uyghur people in Xinjiang, an unofficial UK-based tribunal has found.*
> The Uyghur Tribunal cited birth control and sterilisation measures allegedly carried out by the state against the Uyghurs as the primary reason for reaching its conclusion on Thursday.
> Sir Geoffrey Nice, a prominent British barrister who chaired the tribunal hearings, said its panel was satisfied China had carried out "a deliberate, systematic and concerted policy" to bring about "long-term reduction of Uyghur and other ethnic minority populations". He added that the panel believed senior officials including the Chinese president Xi Jinping bore "primary responsibility" for the abuses against Muslim minorities in the Xinjiang region.
> The tribunal's panel was made up of lawyers and academics. Its findings have no legal force and are not binding on ministers, but its organisers said at the outset they intended to add to the body of evidence around the allegations against China and reach an independent conclusion on the question of genocide.
> The Chinese government denies all accusations of human rights abuses in Xinjiang. Responding to the tribunal's ruling on Thursday, a spokesman told the BBC the body was a "pseudo tribunal" and a "political tool used by a few anti-China elements to deceive and mislead the public".
> 
> Uyghur imams targeted in Xinjiang crackdown
> The cost of speaking up against China
> Who are the Uyghurs?
> Reading the tribunal's judgement, Sir Geoffrey said there was "no evidence of mass killings" in Xinjiang, but he said that the alleged efforts to prevent births amounted to genocidal intent. The panel also said it had found evidence of crimes against humanity, torture, and sexual violence against the Uyghur people.
> Speaking to the BBC after the judgment, Sir Iain Duncan Smith, the former Conservative Party leader and co-chair of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, said it was time for the UK government to accuse China of genocide.
> "The British government said the evidence needed to be assessed by a competent court, well it doesn't get more competent than this," he said.
> "The government now needs to stop messing around. The genocide taking place in Xinjiang has got to dominate our relationship with China."
> Conservative MP Nus Ghani called the conclusion of the tribunal "groundbreaking".
> "This tribunal was set up to the highest legal standards and the evidence that that was put forward today shows that there is enough proof beyond reasonable doubt that there was an intent to commit genocide," she told the BBC.
> "What is particularly troubling is the evidence that this genocide is in particular targeted at women, and focused on preventing births."
> The Chinese state has been accused of crimes against humanity and genocide in Xinjiang, a large region in the country's north-west which is home to the Uyghurs and other minority Muslim groups.
> Experts say that at least a million Uyghurs and other Muslims have been detained in the region and held in extra-judicial camps or sent to prisons. Former detainees and residents of Xinjiang have made allegations of torture, forced sterilisation and sexual abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image caption,
> Sir Geoffrey Nice QC, who led the prosecution of Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic, chaired the tribunal's hearings
> The Uyghur Tribunal heard from more than 70 witnesses over two sets of hearings in London in June and September, including former detainees and experts. Among the witnesses was the Uyghur linguist Abduweli Ayup, who testified about the harassment of his family in Xinjiang and the 15-month sentence imposed on him in his absence for inciting terrorism - a common allegation levelled by the Chinese state against Uyghurs.
> Mr Ayup told the BBC the finding of genocide was "very encouraging".
> "I was sentenced by the Chinese government, now I hope after this ruling someone can sentence them. Many Uyghurs have been sent to prison only for being Uyghur, now it is time their oppressors are also sentenced," he said.
> The issue of whether China's alleged abuses amount to a genocide has divided the international community. The US government has accused China of a genocide against the Uyghurs, and the parliaments of the UK, Canada, the Netherlands, and Lithuania have passed resolutions making the same declaration.
> But the UK government has declined to accuse China of genocide. Prime Minister Boris Johnson has argued that genocide is a specific term with legal force that should only be determined by a criminal court.
> The case for genocide is based on reports that China is taking steps to erase the culture of the Uyghurs and assimilate or diminish the population through programmes of forced relocation and birth control.
> In a report published in April, the US-based charity Human Rights Watch concluded that China was responsible for crimes against humanity in Xinjiang - but stopped short of calling the state's actions a genocide.
> Amnesty International reached the same conclusion in its own report.
> 
> Media caption,
> Erbakit Otarbay, an ethnic Kazakh, describes being subjected to forced labour, indoctrination and beatings in Xinjiang
> The Uyghur Tribunal was established by Sir Geoffrey at the urging of the World Uyghur Congress, a global activist group. The president of the WUC, Dolkun Isa, told the BBC the tribunal's judgment represented a "historic day" for the Uyghur people.
> "Now there is no excuse for the international community to continue its silence on the Uyghur genocide," he said. "It is the legal obligation of all countries who signed the 1948 genocide convention to take legal action."
> Reading the judgment on Thursday, Sir Geoffrey said the tribunal had formed in part because no international criminal court had taken up an investigation into the alleged abuses in Xinjiang.
> The International Criminal Court announced in December last year that it would not investigate the allegations because China, as a non-member, was outside of its jurisdiction.
> Meanwhile, the International Court of Justice can only take a case that has been approved by the UN Security Council, over which China has veto power.
> "Had any other body, domestic or international, determined or sought to determine these issues, the tribunal would have been unnecessary," Sir Geoffrey said.
> The tribunal's final report follows announcement by the US, UK and Canadian government of diplomatic boycotts of the Winter Olympics in China next year.
> Mr Johnson said on Wednesday that the UK, like the US and Canada, would not pursue a sporting boycott of the games.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China committed genocide against Uyghurs, independent tribunal rules
> 
> 
> A London-based unofficial tribunal says China is deliberately preventing births among Uyghurs.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk



Indian murders nearly 100,000 Kashmir's, not to mention torture, false imprisonments and mass rapes, but the world looks the other way.

China gets tough, and the world is up in arms, first about Tibet and now this.


For the record, if I get neutral evidence I would be against Chinese actions as well, it just seems like a confused story. That's not to say China like many countries need to improve their human rights record.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## denel

peagle said:


> Indian murders nearly 100,000 Kashmir's, not to mention torture, false imprisonments and mass rapes, but the world looks the other way.
> 
> China gets tough, and the world is up in arms, first about Tibet and now this.
> 
> 
> For the record, if I get neutral evidence I would be against Chinese actions as well, it just seems like a confused story. That's not to say China like many countries need to improve their human rights record.



Millions imprisoned, holy texts burnt, pork given, children seperated from their women, women sterilized.

This is the problem with the entire muslim populus. You are quick to run and keep crying Kashmir, Kashmir or Palestine. Friend, where were the muslim powers in their glory when Syria was being massacred? Darfur? Yemen? Bosnia? Kosovo? Most were Muslims onto Muslims.

If I note what i see happened to that gentleman from SriLanka.... Where are these so called Jihadists outside the chinese consulates? Why were tyres not burnt? 

Sorry, the state is just abysml. Iqbal was right.... 'Are these Muslims... to whom even Yahud would be ashamed of".


----------



## dani92

aziqbal said:


> *China committed genocide against Uyghurs, independent tribunal rules*
> By Joel Gunter
> BBC News
> 
> Published8 hours ago
> Share
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE, PA MEDIA
> Image caption,
> Uyghurs have staged protests in London urging the government to accuse China of genocide
> *China has committed genocide against the Uyghur people in Xinjiang, an unofficial UK-based tribunal has found.*
> The Uyghur Tribunal cited birth control and sterilisation measures allegedly carried out by the state against the Uyghurs as the primary reason for reaching its conclusion on Thursday.
> Sir Geoffrey Nice, a prominent British barrister who chaired the tribunal hearings, said its panel was satisfied China had carried out "a deliberate, systematic and concerted policy" to bring about "long-term reduction of Uyghur and other ethnic minority populations". He added that the panel believed senior officials including the Chinese president Xi Jinping bore "primary responsibility" for the abuses against Muslim minorities in the Xinjiang region.
> The tribunal's panel was made up of lawyers and academics. Its findings have no legal force and are not binding on ministers, but its organisers said at the outset they intended to add to the body of evidence around the allegations against China and reach an independent conclusion on the question of genocide.
> The Chinese government denies all accusations of human rights abuses in Xinjiang. Responding to the tribunal's ruling on Thursday, a spokesman told the BBC the body was a "pseudo tribunal" and a "political tool used by a few anti-China elements to deceive and mislead the public".
> 
> Uyghur imams targeted in Xinjiang crackdown
> The cost of speaking up against China
> Who are the Uyghurs?
> Reading the tribunal's judgement, Sir Geoffrey said there was "no evidence of mass killings" in Xinjiang, but he said that the alleged efforts to prevent births amounted to genocidal intent. The panel also said it had found evidence of crimes against humanity, torture, and sexual violence against the Uyghur people.
> Speaking to the BBC after the judgment, Sir Iain Duncan Smith, the former Conservative Party leader and co-chair of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, said it was time for the UK government to accuse China of genocide.
> "The British government said the evidence needed to be assessed by a competent court, well it doesn't get more competent than this," he said.
> "The government now needs to stop messing around. The genocide taking place in Xinjiang has got to dominate our relationship with China."
> Conservative MP Nus Ghani called the conclusion of the tribunal "groundbreaking".
> "This tribunal was set up to the highest legal standards and the evidence that that was put forward today shows that there is enough proof beyond reasonable doubt that there was an intent to commit genocide," she told the BBC.
> "What is particularly troubling is the evidence that this genocide is in particular targeted at women, and focused on preventing births."
> The Chinese state has been accused of crimes against humanity and genocide in Xinjiang, a large region in the country's north-west which is home to the Uyghurs and other minority Muslim groups.
> Experts say that at least a million Uyghurs and other Muslims have been detained in the region and held in extra-judicial camps or sent to prisons. Former detainees and residents of Xinjiang have made allegations of torture, forced sterilisation and sexual abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image caption,
> Sir Geoffrey Nice QC, who led the prosecution of Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic, chaired the tribunal's hearings
> The Uyghur Tribunal heard from more than 70 witnesses over two sets of hearings in London in June and September, including former detainees and experts. Among the witnesses was the Uyghur linguist Abduweli Ayup, who testified about the harassment of his family in Xinjiang and the 15-month sentence imposed on him in his absence for inciting terrorism - a common allegation levelled by the Chinese state against Uyghurs.
> Mr Ayup told the BBC the finding of genocide was "very encouraging".
> "I was sentenced by the Chinese government, now I hope after this ruling someone can sentence them. Many Uyghurs have been sent to prison only for being Uyghur, now it is time their oppressors are also sentenced," he said.
> The issue of whether China's alleged abuses amount to a genocide has divided the international community. The US government has accused China of a genocide against the Uyghurs, and the parliaments of the UK, Canada, the Netherlands, and Lithuania have passed resolutions making the same declaration.
> But the UK government has declined to accuse China of genocide. Prime Minister Boris Johnson has argued that genocide is a specific term with legal force that should only be determined by a criminal court.
> The case for genocide is based on reports that China is taking steps to erase the culture of the Uyghurs and assimilate or diminish the population through programmes of forced relocation and birth control.
> In a report published in April, the US-based charity Human Rights Watch concluded that China was responsible for crimes against humanity in Xinjiang - but stopped short of calling the state's actions a genocide.
> Amnesty International reached the same conclusion in its own report.
> 
> Media caption,
> Erbakit Otarbay, an ethnic Kazakh, describes being subjected to forced labour, indoctrination and beatings in Xinjiang
> The Uyghur Tribunal was established by Sir Geoffrey at the urging of the World Uyghur Congress, a global activist group. The president of the WUC, Dolkun Isa, told the BBC the tribunal's judgment represented a "historic day" for the Uyghur people.
> "Now there is no excuse for the international community to continue its silence on the Uyghur genocide," he said. "It is the legal obligation of all countries who signed the 1948 genocide convention to take legal action."
> Reading the judgment on Thursday, Sir Geoffrey said the tribunal had formed in part because no international criminal court had taken up an investigation into the alleged abuses in Xinjiang.
> The International Criminal Court announced in December last year that it would not investigate the allegations because China, as a non-member, was outside of its jurisdiction.
> Meanwhile, the International Court of Justice can only take a case that has been approved by the UN Security Council, over which China has veto power.
> "Had any other body, domestic or international, determined or sought to determine these issues, the tribunal would have been unnecessary," Sir Geoffrey said.
> The tribunal's final report follows announcement by the US, UK and Canadian government of diplomatic boycotts of the Winter Olympics in China next year.
> Mr Johnson said on Wednesday that the UK, like the US and Canada, would not pursue a sporting boycott of the games.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China committed genocide against Uyghurs, independent tribunal rules
> 
> 
> A London-based unofficial tribunal says China is deliberately preventing births among Uyghurs.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk


The crusader Zionist scumbags who committed dozens of genocides and colonized India and China and killed many in starvation and bomb the Muslims in the Middle East they are worried about the Muslims in China?!!!!😂🤣

also why they are quite about the Muslims in India?!.

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## Leishangthem

Dungeness said:


> LOL, " China has committed genocide against the Uyghur people in Xinjiang,* an unofficial UK-based tribunal *has found" *.*


Funded by Uyghur world congress which is funded by NED/CIA . So ,according to a sham tribunal funded by USA.

Of course they ,the CIA front found a genocide,that's the very purpose for funds received for the sham tribunal, why anyone would have thought otherwise?
A CIA circus using ASPI and Adrian Zenz and Nayirah 2.0 on CIA payroll and green card.

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## faithfulguy

Valid information about this topic can be found by listening to Daniel Dumbrill, Max Blumenthal, Aaron Mate and Kim Iversen. Below is Kim Iversen’s take

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## aziqbal

Trango Towers said:


> I have no doubt China is commitung atrocities but why is the west quiet about Palestine??? Kashmir ??? What they did in Iraq Afghanistan Syria?



i am against any crimes against Muslims

and everyone in west apart from governments are on Palestine side

this doesn’t mean we ignore Chinese genocide


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## Trango Towers

aziqbal said:


> i am against any crimes against Muslims
> 
> and everyone in west apart from governments are on Palestine side
> 
> this doesn’t mean we ignore Chinese genocide


Brother I think most people have good in them. People in government politicians etc are born to lie. Trained to lie and study all their live to lie. Money and power is all the care for and worship. They have no issue with using people to create anarchy and misery for a small gain. Ultimately these people have a bad end but they create hell on earth for much of humanity. Sad human trait

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## Char

aziqbal said:


> i am against any crimes against Muslims
> 
> and everyone in west apart from governments are on Palestine side
> 
> this doesn’t mean we ignore Chinese genocide



Maybe one day you will find yourself an enemy of Muslims. Have you ever wondered how Muslims lived in the most glorious period of the Islamic world? How did Muslims treat non-Muslims at the time?


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## aziqbal

Char said:


> Maybe one day you will find yourself an enemy of Muslims. Have you ever wondered how Muslims lived in the most glorious period of the Islamic world? How did Muslims treat non-Muslims at the time?



they were treated very well read about Saladin Ayubi

what a Ignorant comment

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## Warking

Wait is china actually killing innocent Uyghurs? is the genocide true?


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## beijingwalker

Warking said:


> Wait is china actually killing innocent Uyghurs? is the genocide true?


Check out what Korean lady finds about Xinjiang and Uighur city Kashgar this summer, true Xinjiang from a foreign visitor , just to explore but with no evil intentions.

Young couple, ( husband Chinese and wife Korean ) visit Xinjiang Kashgar old town.( check out how beautiful Kashgar city is after "destruction" (renovation) at summer night.
The Korean lady asks a little girl whether she heard a country called Republic of Korea, the little girl shakes her head. Korean lady was very disappointed...
Later on, the young Chinese and Korean couple met the older sisters of these little kids, the older sisters are teenagers and they are so suprised that the lady is actually a Korean, unlike their little brothers, the teenager girls know Korea very well and love Korean music and TV shows, the teen girls can even speak Korean , they speak in Korean " How are you, I m Chinese". This makes this Korean lady very very happy.


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## Char

aziqbal said:


> they were treated very well read about Saladin Ayubi
> 
> what a Ignorant comment



It is not fundamentalism that caused the glory of Islam, nor is it the panacea for today's Muslim countries to change the status quo.

Muslims treat non-Muslims better than Western colonialists when they are at their most glorious, but it is definitely not as good as China treats Muslims from history to reality.

You are the most ignorant and impolite think tank here.


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## aziqbal

Char said:


> It is not fundamentalism that caused the glory of Islam, nor is it the panacea for today's Muslim countries to change the status quo.
> 
> Muslims treat non-Muslims better than Western colonialists when they are at their most glorious, but it is definitely not as good as China treats Muslims from history to reality.
> 
> You are the most ignorant and impolite think tank here.



i never said China historical treated Muslims badly we have a rich history with China going back 1,400 years 

issue is communism and whinny the poo Xi who is doing genocide against Ughars

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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> i never said China historical treated Muslims badly we have a rich history with China going back 1,400 years
> 
> issue is communism and whinny the poo Xi who is doing genocide against Ughars


Can you provide a name list of the dead from your so called "genocide"?


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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> Can you provide a name list of the dead from your so called "genocide"?



you want me to name over 1 million ?

clearly you are guilty to be asking such a ridiculous question

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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> you want me to name over 1 million ?
> 
> clearly you are guilty to be asking such a ridiculous question


How about giving a couple of names? they can be easily checked.


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## VFY

aziqbal said:


> issue is communism and whinny the poo Xi who is doing genocide against Ughars



Why is the issue communism you ignorant faggot?


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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468301955843989516


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## aziqbal

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468301955843989516



do we have any independent reporting from this region 

these are censored videos by Chinese Goverment paid agents 

are they really going to show the area where Ughurs are being exterminated ? 

how about the 1 million forced into labour camps ?

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## Daniel808

aziqbal said:


> do we have any independent reporting from this region
> 
> these are censored videos by Chinese Goverment paid agents
> 
> are they really going to show the area where Ughurs are being exterminated ?
> 
> how about the 1 million forced into labour camps ?



Barking as much as you can, We don't give a Fvck

Anglo saxon like you are Inferior compared to us


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## peagle

denel said:


> Millions imprisoned, holy texts burnt, pork given, children seperated from their women, women sterilized.
> 
> This is the problem with the entire muslim populus. You are quick to run and keep crying Kashmir, Kashmir or Palestine. Friend, where were the muslim powers in their glory when Syria was being massacred? Darfur? Yemen? Bosnia? Kosovo? Most were Muslims onto Muslims.
> 
> If I note what i see happened to that gentleman from SriLanka.... Where are these so called Jihadists outside the chinese consulates? Why were tyres not burnt?
> 
> Sorry, the state is just abysml. Iqbal was right.... 'Are these Muslims... to whom even Yahud would be ashamed of".



I have to say your statement is childishly simplistic, and to top it all, it does not make sense. You have raised so many irrelevant points, in a statement that should have been concentred. That's poor.

I rather my brothers and sisters are imprisoned then dead, at least I shall see them again, it is shocking that you cannot tell the difference. I rather my mother be imprisoned then raped, its shocking I have to explain the difference to you, it really is shocking. 

In all the issues you mentioned the Muslims speak and have spoken, but you fail to notice that the Muslim world is not exactly powerful these days, so what are you expecting? all they can do is raise their voice, which they have done , if you were not listening that that's your problem, not theirs, mine or anyone else's.

The problem is that no other Muslim society has suffered like the Kashmir's, yet they have received the least attention, that was my point, and it still stands. Now, here you are trying to suppress them further.

Don't mention an odd accident, and blow it out of proportion, please get serious.. The local chamber of commerce has announced $100,000 dollar compensation for the family and to provide the family his full salary for next 10 years or so, plus free education for his kids. The Pakistani nation is in shock, the religious leaders have taken a strong stand, visited Sri Lankan embassy, the list goes on. There is a compensation aspect and judicial aspect to this crime, both are being pursued with vigour.

Please have a concentred discussion otherwise this is just silly. Picking every point under the sun to try and proof something hollow.
My statement is valid and my point stands, don't provide wishy washy statements, provide a direct relevant argument, because you have provided nothing relevant.


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## beijingwalker

*May 28, 2021, Sunsets at Yili River in a small Kazakh border town sitting next to Kazakhstan in northern Xinjiang*
Feel so lucky to live and enjoy daily life in the only covid free country in the world.





Laotian girl travesl in Xinjiang

A Laotian girl travels in Xinjiang , she was amazed by how people look in this multicultural Chinese western frontier.


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## beijingwalker

Warm and safety winter uniforms were delivered to students of the village schools in the westernmost corners of China.
These new warm winter school uniforms are cold resistant with reflective strips allowing drivers to see the children from a far distance. Important information such as the emergency contact and blood type of the student is registered in the corner of the uniform, so that in case of a student safety accident, people can contact the teachers and families of the student and find the blood type of the student quickly.

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## silverox

I suggest this forum blocking Indian spy Aziqbal



He pretends to be a devout Muslim



In fact, it is an Indian who incited Chinese hatred.


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## beijingwalker

Chinese social media recently released a map showing the countries which smear and attack China over so called Xinjiang issue. It caused a massive uproar across the Chinese social media and these countries will be remembered by the Chinese netizens.
Almost all of them are western countries , whose hands are covered with blood of millions.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang's first three quarters' GDP growth in 2021 is 16.5%, total GDP will be a runaway leader in the whole central Asia region, per capita GDP this year will be around 10,000 USD, will overtake Turkey's by a big margin per capita wise this year.
Xinjiang is no longer a very poor, underdeveloped region as stereotyped in China.

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## beijingwalker

Newly built neighborhoods in remote Pamir Plateau Tajik town Tashkurgan suburbs in western Xinjiang, China. The old mud and stone houses in this region had all been demolished, locals all moved into new houses for free built by the government which are earthquake resistant with all modern facilities, electricity, running water, central heating, wifi.. This is a newly built neighorhood at the foot of Mount Muztagata , locals can buy apartements there, each appartment is 120 square meter, $7,800 for one apartment, but only local Tajiks can buy them, outsiders can't.

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## beijingwalker

In the begining of the video, two Tajik old women struggled with their very limited Mandarin Chinese very patiently trying to answer every question asked by the vlogger, but in the end of the video the young Tajik lady impatiently dismissed the vlogger with perfect Mandarin, I may think she is from Beijing if only listening to her talking, she just coldly and impatiently replied: I don't know, you better go and ask the property management office.


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## beijingwalker

Over 3,000meters above the sea level, Primary school students in Pamir Plateau are doing the Mongolian style shoulder and arm dance in the classroom, Happy childhood.


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## beijingwalker

This year, 2021, could be a milestone year for Xinjiang economically, for the first time Xinjiang's per capita GDP would go over $10,000USD, it's no longer a barren, desert, poverty stricken underdeveloped region.

Xinjiang has gone a long way to come to this point of prosperity.

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## beijingwalker

Kids of different ethnic groups in Xinjiang sing and dance for the soon coming Beijing Winter Olympic Games

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## onebyone




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## denel

how much did he get paid to propagate a fake line?

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## beijingwalker

A arm and shoulder dance video by the students in a village primary school in the westernmost tip of China goes viral on Chinese social media, let's find out their ethnicities. after asking them, we found out half of the students are ethnic Tajiks and half ethnic kyrgyz, XInjiang has 15 native ethnic groups, not just Han and Uyghurs.
Tajiks are being called in China "the most patriotic people"in China, because Tajiks were very often sold into slavery by other peopls in Xinjiang before PRC, after PRC the government banned this act in the region and liberated them, since then they became the most patriotic people in China. The teacher told us that almost all these kids parents are border patrol guards, we need to take good care of their children so the parents can do their border guarding job better free of any concerns of their children. All these kids are provided with totally free education, two free school meals a day and during the break snacks . During the visit, the kids are having during the break snacks, including cakes, eggs and milk.

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## beijingwalker

These kids are extremely lucky, going just ONE kilometers further west, they could've been born in Afghanistan, where education is minimal, especially for girls but child labor is prevalnet.


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## beijingwalker

10 years ago in 2011, Chinese central television station, CCTV, broadcasted a special featured program depicting how dangerous a school journey that the students from a small village deep in the Pamir mountains had to take, they had to traverse vertical high mountain cliffs, cross rapid icy rivers and trek for days to go to school, some kids were so poor and can't afford a pair of shoes..... This report shocked the whole Chinese nation, tons of money were donated and poured in demanding improvement of this small village from all over China, local government was brought into the spotlight and was reprimanded and demanded for a quick change by upper government.

Facing the mounting public outcry, a highway was built connecting this small village and the outside region in just 2 years, finished in 2013.

In 2021, 10 years after this CCTV report, the same CCTV reporters revisited this small Pamir village, it only took less than 2 hours to this village by highway, all mountain paths are not longer recognizable and they had to use drones to find those rough foot paths on the mountain cliffs that they used to trek a decade ago. They saw the then kids again and now they all have grown up and do different jobs, teachers, taxi drivers, police officers...

They revisited the families that they used to stay with during the night, now these familie all moved into free government built earthquake proof houses hooked up with all the modern facilities, electricity, running water, flush toilets, internet...

The reporters had a warm hearted reunion with the then school children, they have all grown up, together they remember the wishes they made 10 years ago, some wished that they could have a road , some wished of having a pair of shoes...., as grownups , they are sitting together and making wishes again, now the wishes are like becoming entrepreneur and having their own hotels and resorts, traveling around the world...

What a tremendous change in a span of 10 years happened to this small village and the children of it!


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## beijingwalker

The CCTV repots broadcasted in September 2011, it shocked the whole nation, and in December 2011, the government brought all those kids to Beijing for a long vacation. This is the footage those kids visited Beijing 10 years ago.

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## beijingwalker

Western media brainwashes people into believing that China never reports anything negative or problems about China, this is a big lie, China reports a lot of her problems, smog, gutter oil, traffic jams due to lack of adequate road systems, fake baby formula, water shortage crisis, desertification crisis....
With the media and public pressure, all the problems can be fairly quickly fixed or greatly improved.
The west always claims that they have freedom of speech and free media, but all they can do is empty talk, the same old problems can stay unchanged for decades with no one cares about fixing them.

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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> Western media brainwashes people into believing that China never reports anything negative or problems about China, this is a big lie, China reports a lot of her problems, smog, gutter oil, traffic jams due to lack of adequate road systems, fake baby formula, water shortage crisis, desertification crisis....
> With the media and public pressure, all the problems can be fairly quickly fixed or greatly improved.
> The west always claims that they have freedom of speech and free media, but all they can do is empty talk, the same old problems can stay unchanged for decades with no one cares about fixing them.



fake news 

Chinese youtube channels are not credible source of information

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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> fake news
> 
> Chinese youtube channels are not credible source of information


lol, now you sound more and more like a 5 years old, it's reported on Chinese national TV 10 years ago in 2011, which part of the report are you saying is fake?

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## Stranagor

denel said:


> how much did he get paid to propagate a fake line?



Less than you did. Do you have any available post over there?


beijingwalker said:


> These kids are extremely lucky, going just ONE kilometers further west, they could've been born in Afghanistan, where education is minimal, especially for girls but child labor is prevalnet.



It is of key importance to provide education to girls and encourage them to participate public life actively.


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## beijingwalker

Stranagor said:


> It is of key importance to provide education to girls and encourage them to participate public life actively.


Xinjiang female medical workers fighting on the frontline of curbing Covid

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## beijingwalker

*Food safety procedures for free school meals in Xinjiang during the pandemic.*
School meals and during the break snacks are free for the students in Xinjiang, during the pandemic, every safety step for the food preparation is being closely monitored and strictly complied with. This video shows the full procedures of the free school meals for a 5th grade class in a primary school in a desert town, Hotan, in southern Xinjiang

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang: Free milk for Kids between 0 to 6 years old, one case each week. *
A government policy to make sure that every kid in Xinjiang can get enough nutrition for growth.


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## GiantPanda

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang female medical workers fighting on the frontline of curbing Covid




Wow. Smart and beautiful. Chinese would be proud of her 

China spends money fixing its own country and giving people better lives. But the West which had spent money actually invading muslim nations and killing muslims by the hundreds of thousands are doing everything they can to destabilize Xinjiang and turn it into another Afghanistan.


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## beijingwalker

*Western Propaganda on Xinjiang: What's the next target?*
Around half the world's polysilicon production comes from #Xinjiang but a false forced labor accusation was all that was needed for the #US to sanction the solar companies, cut the lifelines of their workers and undermine the effort to tackle global change.


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## SaadH

I wanted get the Chinese posters' take on this. I understand the source is Indian news channel but the fact remains there were 4 Chinese companies in the top 10 in the world in 2007, now there are none. Decline in Chinese stocks makes me really nervous. I am a investor in Chinese companies, which I am sure will be fine in the long run, but in the short term, investors have been unloading Chinese companies like no tomorrow.


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## beijingwalker

SaadH said:


> I wanted get the Chinese posters' take on this. I understand the source is Indian news channel but the fact remains there were 4 Chinese companies in the top 10 in the world in 2007, now there are none. Decline in Chinese stocks makes me really nervous. I am a investor in Chinese companies, which I am sure will be fine in the long run, but in the short term, investors have been unloading Chinese companies like no tomorrow.


This is the result of ‘’common prosperity" policy, after all, Chinese is still a socialist country, it won't allow the widening rich and poor gap, but how far this new policy will go is still to be seen, it's too early to make any predictions.


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## SaadH

beijingwalker said:


> This is the result of ‘’common prosperity" policy, after all, Chinese is still a socialist country, it won't allow the widening rich and poor gap, but how far this new policy will go is still to be seen, it's too early to make any predictions.


Common prosperity can be achieved without affecting growth. Chinese authorities will have to find that right equilibrium to pull back on the regulations and punitive action without impacting the growth of these companies.


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## beijingwalker

SaadH said:


> Common prosperity can be achieved without affecting growth. Chinese authorities will have to find that right equilibrium to pull back on the regulations and punitive action without impacting the growth of these companies.


The growth is not affected, China still enjoys the highest growth rate among world major economies. Import and export, industrial ouput, trade surplus all go very well.


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## SaadH

beijingwalker said:


> The growth is not affected, China still enjoys the highest growth rate among world major economies. Import and export, industrial ouput, trade surplus all go very well.


If growth is not impacted what's the concern then, choking of new ideas? No innovation so as to not fall foul of CCP?


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## beijingwalker

SaadH said:


> If growth is not impacted what's the concern then, choking of new ideas? No innovation so as to not fall foul of CCP?


Too early to say, have to wait and see, don't know how far China will going after them, policies may change, China always adjusts its policies based on the trends and development.


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## beijingwalker

All the students in this class are the children of the civilian border control guards, their parents are often away for months in the border mountains patrolling Chinese borders, many of these children haven't seen their parents for weeks even a month, some live school dorms and some live with their grandparents, but they all understand why their parents can not be always there with them and when being asked about what kind of a person they like to be after they grow up, they replied " a capable person who can help building up the motherland China".

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## fisher1

Warking said:


> Wait is china actually killing innocent Uyghurs? is the genocide true?



They have been putting them in concentration camps since 2017 and do all kinds of worst things to them.


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## beijingwalker

villagers turn farmlands into ice skating rinks in winter times to have winter fun in rural Xinjiang

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## Warking

fisher1 said:


> They have been putting them in concentration camps since 2017 and do all kinds of worst things to them.


I have personally watched videos from both media sources and they usually bed it to fit their agenda its hard to trust them.


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang's first desert-crossing expressway opens to traffic*
lXinhua, December 25, 2021





URUMQI, Dec. 25 (Xinhua) -- The first cross-desert expressway in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region officially opened to traffic on Saturday, cutting travel time between cities in north Xinjiang, said the regional transport department.

The expressway, linking Altay Prefecture and the regional capital Urumqi, stretches some 343 km, with sections of more than 150 km constructed through Gurbantunggut Desert, the second-largest desert in China.

As an artery of Xinjiang's transportation framework, the expressway will help shorten the journey between cities in the northern part of the region and improve travel conditions.
With a designed maximum speed of 120 km per hour, the travel time between Altay and Urumqi is reduced by half, to about three and a half hours.

In addition, the expressway is also designed to be a tourism-experience road, enabling drivers and passengers to enjoy diverse scenic views and services along the way, and facilitating economic development in regions along the route.



http://www.china.org.cn/china/Off_the_Wire/2021-12/25/content_77952655.htm


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## fisher1

Warking said:


> I have personally watched videos from both media sources and they usually bed it to fit their agenda its hard to trust them.



What do you think about Islamic personalities and random vloggers who corroborate the same view that Uighurs are being oppressed?. For example Muhammad Hijab




Daniel Haqiqatjou





Dr Zakir Naik, Mufti Tariq Maqsood, and so many other Muslim personalities who have some reach, football celebrities and countless people have spoken about this








Sonny Bill Williams: Rugby star latest to criticise China over Uighurs


Sonny Bill Williams posted an image and said it was "sad" when economics was chosen over humanity.



www.bbc.com





Why do you think they will lie and spread "CIA propaganda" when their whole channels are about countering western ideologies?

Do you think these people who dedicate their lives to Islam and strive for Jannah are liars but China whose whole society is about insulting religions is the truthful?

Do you know about how communism has always been harsh to Islam and Muslims in Soviet era for example. Why do you think Chinese communists love you?


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## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang's First Desert-Crossing Expressway Opens to Traffic*


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## beijingwalker

*Uyghur girl slams some Chinese who celebrate Christmas :* Why the hell we Chinese celebrate Christmas?! Did you guys watch the movie "The Battle at Lake Changjin "? On that Christmas day,our Chinese PLA warriors were wearing thin clothes, eating raw frozen potatos, while US invaders were enjoying their Christmas turkeys. Do you think such a day is deserved to be celebrated by we Chinese? Grow a spine and get some self respect. You guys wouldn't be celebrating such a day if you had the slightest sense of patriotism. I really hope the all we Chinese can preserve and promote our own culture and traditions, have more national pride and confidence.


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## Warking

fisher1 said:


> What do you think about Islamic personalities and random vloggers who corroborate the same view that Uighurs are being oppressed?. For example Muhammad Hijab
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniel Haqiqatjou
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Zakir Naik, Mufti Tariq Maqsood, and so many other Muslim personalities who have some reach, football celebrities and countless people have spoken about this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sonny Bill Williams: Rugby star latest to criticise China over Uighurs
> 
> 
> Sonny Bill Williams posted an image and said it was "sad" when economics was chosen over humanity.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you think they will lie and spread "CIA propaganda" when their whole channels are about countering western ideologies?
> 
> Do you think these people who dedicate their lives to Islam and strive for Jannah are liars but China whose whole society is about insulting religions is the truthful?
> 
> Do you know about how communism has always been harsh to Islam and Muslims in Soviet era for example. Why do you think Chinese communists love you?


Hmm thanks for that.

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## fisher1

Warking said:


> Hmm thanks for that.



You are welcome! Don't fall into the Chinese propaganda of brother, honey, mountains and all that crap. Aside from all these celebrities videos, I have someone (the relationship I wouldn't mention for his safety) who told me personally how he isn't allowed to even talk about Islam with others and a lot of other things and he doesn't even live in East Turkestan(Xinjiang) but far off where the situation for Muslims is far better.

It is heart-breaking the atrocities committed upon Uighurs but China can get away with it due to the money it is giving Muslim countries and the intense propaganda.


----------



## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> I have someone (the relationship I wouldn't mention for his safety) who told me personally how he isn't allowed to even talk about Islam with others and a lot of other things and he doesn't even live in East Turkestan(Xinjiang) but far off where the situation for Muslims is far better.
> 
> It is heart-breaking the atrocities committed upon Uighurs but China can get away with it due to the money it is giving Muslim countries and the intense propaganda.


Lol, everyone has "someone"s story to talk about, man, do you seriously believe people in Xinjiang, who enjoy the best standard of living in central Asia, free education, free healthcare, free schoolmeals and daily milk, free housing and cash subsidies for poor families....would like to turn their Xinjiang into neighboring Afghannistan or Kashmir?

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## beijingwalker

Undisputed international aviation and transportation hug in central Asia
City of Urumqi is expanding its international airport with a price tag of $3.2 Billion USD, this massive project will be finished by 2023, by then Urumqi will become the first airport in China that boasts 4 terminals.


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## beijingwalker

*New expressway in Xinjiang expected to improve connectivity*


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Lol, everyone has "someone"s story to talk about, man, do you seriously believe people in Xinjiang, who enjoy the best standard of living in central Asia, free education, free healthcare, free schoolmeals and daily milk, free housing and cash subsidies for poor families....would like to turn their Xinjiang into neighboring Afghannistan or Kashmir?



That's not true. They have to work in concentration camps to get communist education, food and get raped and their organs harvested. Afghanistan and Kashmir would be heaven for Uighurs, of course they want it

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## Stranagor

beijingwalker said:


> View attachment 803432



Poormachines. China, stop oppressing machines. Use immigrant labor like in the US, instead.


beijingwalker said:


> Undisputed international aviation and transportation hug in central Asia
> City of Urumqi is expanding its international airport with a price tag of $3.2 Billion USD, this massive project will be finished by 2023, by then Urumqi will become the first airport in China that boasts 4 terminals.



The most developed city in Central Asia.


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Afghanistan and Kashmir would be heaven for Uighurs, of course they want it


Lol, You seriously believe Afghanistan and Kashmir are heavens for Uighurs? you must have lost your mind, do you know how Afghans live now?

check out how Xinjiang helps Afghanistan





Afghan children receive free heart surgery in China


Afghan children receive free heart surgery in China Afghan children with congenital heart disease (CHD) receive free treatment in China's Xinjiang province. It was a project sponsored by the B&R Fraternity Fund, which aims to help children with heart disease in Afghanistan.



defence.pk












China's freight train carrying +1,000 tons of winter supplies departs to Afghanistan


China's freight train carrying +1,000 tons of winter supplies departs to Afghanistan



defence.pk


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Lol, You seriously believe Afghanistan and Kashmir are heavens for Uighurs? you must have lost your mind, do you know how Afghans live now?
> 
> check out how Xinjiang helps Afghanistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Afghan children receive free heart surgery in China
> 
> 
> Afghan children receive free heart surgery in China Afghan children with congenital heart disease (CHD) receive free treatment in China's Xinjiang province. It was a project sponsored by the B&R Fraternity Fund, which aims to help children with heart disease in Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's freight train carrying +1,000 tons of winter supplies departs to Afghanistan
> 
> 
> China's freight train carrying +1,000 tons of winter supplies departs to Afghanistan
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



At least they are free in Afghanistan and Kashmir to practice their religion and not bound in concentration camps being spied on by the government. 

Please cut the propaganda, it's just boring. Even the people who support you don't believe Chinese propaganda, they support you for their reasons knowing full well the ongoing holocaust on Muslims


----------



## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> At least they are free in Afghanistan and Kashmir to practice their religion and not bound in concentration camps being spied on by the government.
> 
> Please cut the propaganda, it's just boring. Even the people who support you don't believe Chinese propaganda, they support you for their reasons knowing full well the ongoing holocaust on Muslims



Lol, how many people do you think believe you? you believe Uyghurs will give up their comfortable life in XInjiang for Afghanistan is the biggest joke of the year 2021.


Check out what Korean lady finds about Xinjiang and Uighur city Kashgar this summer, true Xinjiang from a foreign visitor , just to explore but with no evil intentions.

Young couple, ( husband Chinese and wife Korean ) visit Xinjiang Kashgar old town.( check out how beautiful Kashgar city is after "destruction" (renovation) at summer night.
The Korean lady asks a little girl whether she heard a country called Republic of Korea, the little girl shakes her head. Korean lady was very disappointed...
Later on, the young Chinese and Korean couple met the older sisters of these little kids, the older sisters are teenagers and they are so suprised that the lady is actually a Korean, unlike their little brothers, the teenager girls know Korea very well and love Korean music and TV shows, the teen girls can even speak Korean , they speak in Korean " How are you, I m Chinese". This makes this Korean lady very very happy.

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## Stranagor

beijingwalker said:


> Lol, how many people do you think believe you? you believe Uyghurs will give up their comfortable life in XInjiang for Afghanistan is the biggest joke of the year 2021.
> 
> 
> Check out what Korean lady finds about Xinjiang and Uighur city Kashgar this summer, true Xinjiang from a foreign visitor , just to explore but with no evil intentions.
> 
> Young couple, ( husband Chinese and wife Korean ) visit Xinjiang Kashgar old town.( check out how beautiful Kashgar city is after "destruction" (renovation) at summer night.
> The Korean lady asks a little girl whether she heard a country called Republic of Korea, the little girl shakes her head. Korean lady was very disappointed...
> Later on, the young Chinese and Korean couple met the older sisters of these little kids, the older sisters are teenagers and they are so suprised that the lady is actually a Korean, unlike their little brothers, the teenager girls know Korea very well and love Korean music and TV shows, the teen girls can even speak Korean , they speak in Korean " How are you, I m Chinese". This makes this Korean lady very very happy.



Xinjiang is indeed a great tourist attraction.


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## beijingwalker

*China's Xinjiang posts foreign trade growth of 30% with EU in Jan.-Nov**.*
December 27, 2021

URUMQI, Dec. 27 (Xinhua) -- Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region recorded around 261.8 billion yuan (about 41 billion U.S. dollars) in foreign trade with the European Union countries in the first 11 months of this year, up 30 percent year on year, the local customs said on Monday.

According to Urumqi Customs, Xinjiang's exports to the EU hit 197.9 billion yuan, up 27.7 percent year on year in the January-November period, while its imports rose by 37.6 percent to reach 63.9 billion yuan.

Sun Tao, deputy director of the statistics and analysis department of the customs, attributed the robust figures to the booming China-Europe freight train services via ports in Xinjiang, the trade growth of mechanical and electrical products and the surge in the export of clean energy equipment and products.

In the first 11 months, a total of 11,156 China-Europe freight train trips were recorded by land ports in Xinjiang, a year-on-year increase of 26.8 percent. The total freight volume hit 1.1 million tonnes, up 30.2 percent year on year. Significant increases in trade have been seen with Germany, Poland, the Netherlands, France and Hungary.

During the period, Xinjiang ports exported 158 billion yuan of mechanical and electrical products to the EU, up 32.9 percent year on year, accounting for 79.9 percent of the total exports. Meanwhile, Xinjiang ports also saw a 29.2 percent increase in the import of mechanical and electrical products from the EU, accounting for 65.5 percent of the total imports.

"During the period, the exports of raw plastics, electric vehicles and polysilicon have doubled. Among exported labor-intensive products, plastic products, shoes and furniture have seen significant growth," Sun said.



http://www.china.org.cn/china/Off_the_Wire/2021-12/27/content_77955221.htm

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## beijingwalker

Ayideng Turxunbek , an ethnic Kazkh PLA officer of the Xinjiang Military Region can speak 8 languages, Chinese , Kazakh , Uyghur , English, Urdu, Hindi, Persian, and Pashto .

Ayideng Turxunbek has performed missions in border areas many times, and won the third-class merit twice and the second-class merit once. He was once awarded the title of "Four Haves" Revolutionary Soldiers of the New Era in the Army.

In the 13 years of enlisting in the army, he was injured in 23 places throughout his body due to major military activities.

In a drill, Ayideng Turxunbek took the lead in the charge. It was not until the end of the mission that the military doctor discovered a fracture of his right wrist and multiple tendon injuries.

In a mission last year, Ayideng Turxunbek was injured in his right arm to protect the commander. After a simple bandage, he led the soldiers to charge again.

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## Stranagor

beijingwalker said:


> *China's Xinjiang posts foreign trade growth of 30% with EU in Jan.-Nov**.*
> December 27, 2021
> 
> URUMQI, Dec. 27 (Xinhua) -- Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region recorded around 261.8 billion yuan (about 41 billion U.S. dollars) in foreign trade with the European Union countries in the first 11 months of this year, up 30 percent year on year, the local customs said on Monday.
> 
> According to Urumqi Customs, Xinjiang's exports to the EU hit 197.9 billion yuan, up 27.7 percent year on year in the January-November period, while its imports rose by 37.6 percent to reach 63.9 billion yuan.
> 
> Sun Tao, deputy director of the statistics and analysis department of the customs, attributed the robust figures to the booming China-Europe freight train services via ports in Xinjiang, the trade growth of mechanical and electrical products and the surge in the export of clean energy equipment and products.
> 
> In the first 11 months, a total of 11,156 China-Europe freight train trips were recorded by land ports in Xinjiang, a year-on-year increase of 26.8 percent. The total freight volume hit 1.1 million tonnes, up 30.2 percent year on year. Significant increases in trade have been seen with Germany, Poland, the Netherlands, France and Hungary.
> 
> During the period, Xinjiang ports exported 158 billion yuan of mechanical and electrical products to the EU, up 32.9 percent year on year, accounting for 79.9 percent of the total exports. Meanwhile, Xinjiang ports also saw a 29.2 percent increase in the import of mechanical and electrical products from the EU, accounting for 65.5 percent of the total imports.
> 
> "During the period, the exports of raw plastics, electric vehicles and polysilicon have doubled. Among exported labor-intensive products, plastic products, shoes and furniture have seen significant growth," Sun said.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.china.org.cn/china/Off_the_Wire/2021-12/27/content_77955221.htm



Business, baby. Ha ha. So much for few US plus undemocratic stooges playing sanctions. Reactionaries are paper tigers.


----------



## beijingwalker

beijingwalker said:


> In a mission last year, Ayideng Turxunbek was injured in his right arm to protect the commander. After a simple bandage, he led the soldiers to charge again.


This mission could mean the China India border clash last year.

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## beijingwalker

How kids in Kazak herding families go to school. herders live by themselves and no neighbors are nearby, how do their kids go to school?

22 years old Kazakh girl Chinar talks about her childhood and her 8 years old nephew's childhood. Chinar never got a chance to go to the kingdergarten, she only started her schooling from primary school and she used to live in her relative's house in the town where she can go to school.

Now everything had completely changed, all herders' preschoolars go to kingdergartens, for primary school kids, schools send school buses to pick them up and bring them home, everything is free in kingdergartens and schools, free meals, free daily milk, free during the break nurishment snacks... now all herders have their own houses in the town so kids can live in their own houses in the town.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Lol, how many people do you think believe you? you believe Uyghurs will give up their comfortable life in XInjiang for Afghanistan is the biggest joke of the year 2021.
> 
> 
> Check out what Korean lady finds about Xinjiang and Uighur city Kashgar this summer, true Xinjiang from a foreign visitor , just to explore but with no evil intentions.
> 
> Young couple, ( husband Chinese and wife Korean ) visit Xinjiang Kashgar old town.( check out how beautiful Kashgar city is after "destruction" (renovation) at summer night.
> The Korean lady asks a little girl whether she heard a country called Republic of Korea, the little girl shakes her head. Korean lady was very disappointed...
> Later on, the young Chinese and Korean couple met the older sisters of these little kids, the older sisters are teenagers and they are so suprised that the lady is actually a Korean, unlike their little brothers, the teenager girls know Korea very well and love Korean music and TV shows, the teen girls can even speak Korean , they speak in Korean " How are you, I m Chinese". This makes this Korean lady very very happy.











Twitter removes nearly 3,500 ‘state-backed’ propaganda accounts


Most of the accounts were linked to the Chinese Communist Party’s narrative over its treatment of Uighurs in Xinjiang.




www.aljazeera.com





Unfortunately, this forum will not ban the propaganda accounts here


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Twitter removes nearly 3,500 ‘state-backed’ propaganda accounts
> 
> 
> Most of the accounts were linked to the Chinese Communist Party’s narrative over its treatment of Uighurs in Xinjiang.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, this forum will not ban the propaganda accounts here


LOL, freedom of speech to the finest.


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## beijingwalker

*If You Haven't Researched Arguments Disputing A Western Narrative, You Don't Understand The Issue*


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## Stranagor

beijingwalker said:


> How kids in Kazak herding families go to school. herders live by themselves and no neighbors are nearby, how do their kids go to school?
> 
> 22 years old Kazakh girl Chinar talks about her childhood and her 8 years old nephew's childhood. Chinar never got a chance to go to the kingdergarten, she only started her schooling from primary school and she used to live in her relative's house in the town where she can go to school.
> 
> Now everything had completely changed, all herders' preschoolars go to kingdergartens, for primary school kids, schools send school buses to pick them up and bring them home, everything is free in kingdergartens and schools, free meals, free daily milk, free during the break nurishment snacks... now all herders have their own houses in the town so kids can live in their own houses in the town.



Education is the anti-venom of backwardness, reactionarism and underdevelopment. 

Each child educated is a win. Hatred spewed by foreign political/ideological circles can only spit against this wind blowing full force.


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## beijingwalker

Stranagor said:


> Education is the anti-venom of backwardness, reactionarism and underdevelopment.
> 
> Each child educated is a win. Hatred spewed by foreign political/ideological circles can only spit against this wind blowing full force.


But this fisher guy believes that Afghanistan and Kashmir are heavens, what kind of education is it? He should try to live in a refugee camp in Afghanistan for some time to get a real sense of what he is talking about.


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## Stranagor

beijingwalker said:


> But this fisher guy believes that Afghanistan and Kashmir are heavens, what kind of education is it? He should try to live in a refugee camp in Afghanistan for some time to get a real sense of what he is talking about.



These people are certainly not well-wishers. One should be glad that they honestly come out as enemy. Then you know what you need to do.


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang builds its first cross-desert highway; $62.7bln more to be invested in Xinjiang's road construction in next 5 years*

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> LOL, freedom of speech to the finest.



hahaaaa But your country doesn't even allow freedom of speech and you're complaining about it? Be careful, that's negative social credits for you

Freedom of speech doesn't mean spewing propaganda btw


beijingwalker said:


> But this fisher guy believes that Afghanistan and Kashmir are heavens, what kind of education is it? He should try to live in a refugee camp in Afghanistan for some time to get a real sense of what he is talking about.



Afgh/kashmir > concentration camp with ongoing holocaust upon you

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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> hahaaaa But your country doesn't even allow freedom of speech and you're complaining about it? Be careful, that's negative social credits for you


Freedom of lying is more like it in US, and you can only talk but nothing can be fixed, China is more action and solution oriented, we got things done and fixed fast, how about your government?


fisher1 said:


> Afgh/kashmir > concentration camp with ongoing holocaust upon you


Haha, no one believe your lies, you can insist Afghanistan and Kashmir are heavens comparing to Xinjiang, and you know how many people really buy this crap from you.


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## beijingwalker

For several days, a little girl lingered around the gate of a PLA garrison compound in Kashgar, Xinjiang and saluted the entrance guards, one day the little girl handed a note to one of the guards, on the note it writes: I m 塔依尔 , 9 years old, an Uyghur girl, I'll study hard , after I become a college student, I can visit you. I really wish that I can become a PLA soldier just like you, my elder brother. 
The next day, the PLA soldiers went to her school to find out what's with this little Uyghur girl, it turned out the girl's father is a PLA officer serving in the border area and this little girl hasn't seen her father for a long time, she cried and told the soldiers that she missed her father so much, the girl's father told the little girl the reason he can't be always by her side is because as a PLA fighter, he has the sacred duty to defend and protect the motherland China. 
The little girl told the soldiers that she wants to become a PLA soldier after she grows up so she can also carry out the duty to defend and protect the motherland China.

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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Afghanistan and Kashmir would be heaven for Uighurs, of course they want it


This is your ‘’ heaven‘’, which is only kilometers away from the ‘’hell" Xinjiang. check out what kids in this "heaven‘’ got comparing with Xinjiang kids, where almost everything is being provided for free, education, school meal, during the break snacks, daily milk, healthcare...
Why do you believe Uighurs " *of course*" want their lives be like in Afghanistan? do you think they are all out of their mind like you?


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> This is your ‘’ heaven‘’, which is only kilometers away from the ‘’hell" Xinjiang. check out what kids in this "heaven‘’ got comparing with Xinjiang kids, where almost everything is being provided for free, education, school meal, during the break snacks, daily milk, healthcare...
> Why do you believe Uighurs " *of course*" want their lives be like in Afghanistan? do you think they are all out of their mind like you?



So now you believe BBC as legit news source? But when it depicts the atrocities committed upon Uighurs, you blindly yell "CIA WESTERN PROPAGANDA"

Get a hold of your hypocrisy.

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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> So now you believe BBC as legit news source? But when it depicts the atrocities committed upon Uighurs, you blindly yell "CIA WESTERN PROPAGANDA"
> 
> Get a hold of your hypocrisy.


Other channels also report Afghanistan like this, it's undisputed like a weather report, you don't really care about a weather report is from BBC or CCTV, do you? Does any country dispute the fact that Afghanistan is in bad shape?


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Other channels also report Afghanistan like this, it's undisputed like a weather report, you don't really care about a weather report is from BBC or CCTV, do you? Does any country dispute the fact that Afghanistan is in bad shape?



Ditto about Uighurs holocaust too


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Ditto about Uighurs holocaust too


Not disputed? lol, but the reality is..., so obvious a western lied

Countries raise Xinjiang issues

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## beijingwalker

*887.55 km！Three New Expressways Open to Traffic in Xinjiang in the last day of 2021*

Three new expressways with a total length of 887.55 km in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region opened for trial operation on Thursday. They are expected to further improve the transport network and contribute to the high-quality development in the region.

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## Stranagor

Tesla Opens First Service Center in Xinjiang to Cover 60 Mainland Cities






www.yicaiglobal.com





Tesla Opens First Service Center in Xinjiang to Cover 60 Mainland Cities


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## beijingwalker

Celebrate 2022 in Xinjiang, go skiing


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## beijingwalker

Winter in Xinjiang, Xinjiang roots for 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics

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## Char

beijingwalker said:


> Winter in Xinjiang, Xinjiang roots for 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics



The Winter Olympics can be held in Xinjiang.


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## Stranagor

Char said:


> The Winter Olympics can be held in Xinjiang.



It would be nice Tibet and Xinjiang regions collectively holding one of future Winter Olympics.

Biden would hardly be invited.


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## K_Bin_W

Stranagor said:


> Tesla Opens First Service Center in Xinjiang to Cover 60 Mainland Cities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yicaiglobal.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tesla Opens First Service Center in Xinjiang to Cover 60 Mainland Cities


I thought there was genocide in Xinjiang, Elon Musk must be held accountable


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## Stranagor

K_Bin_W said:


> I thought there was genocide in Xinjiang, Elon Musk must be held accountable



Ha ha. Xinjiang is the most developed region in the whole Central Asia with GDP per capita exceeding 10000 USD. Musk, being a great marketeer, would be one of the first to see the prospects.

But, so long as all Xinjiang cotton processing workers do not drive to work in a Tesla, the US will gracefully think Xinjiang people are just worse than regular Pennsylvania citizen.


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## Char

Stranagor said:


> It would be nice Tibet and Xinjiang regions collectively holding one of future Winter Olympics.
> 
> Biden would hardly be invited.



Tibet and Xinjiang are too far apart, and athletes may experience altitude sickness when they go to Tibet.

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## beijingwalker

*Tesla Opens its First Store in Xinjiang, China*
by Eva Fox 
January 01, 2022







On the last day of 2021, Tesla announced the opening of its first store in Urumqi, Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region in northwest China. This marks the official launch of the U.S. manufacturer's store and service network in the region.

Xiao Lu, Tesla's head of Northwest China, said the store is an important starting point for Tesla in developing its service network in Xinjiang, which not only provides one-stop services to local consumers but also continually extends the concept of environmental protection to the region, according to _Pandaily_. 

This location is the westernmost Tesla presence in mainland China. The store covers an area of 1,620 square meters and offers pre-sales consultations, test drives, insurance consultations, temporary licensing, after-sales services, and other services for consumers in Urumqi and surrounding areas.

The store is also Tesla's 11th in Northwest China and 211th in the Chinese mainland. Tesla currently has stores in 60 cities across the mainland. In addition, Tesla currently has 7 Supercharger stations in Xinjiang. The company already has 2 Supercharger stations in Urumqi offering 14 stalls to ensure a great driving experience for car owners. 









Tesla Opens its First Store in Xinjiang, China


On the last day of the year, Tesla announced the opening of its first store in Urumqi, Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region in northwest China. This marks the official launch of a U.S. manufacturer's store and service network in the region.




www.tesmanian.com

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## fisher1

K_Bin_W said:


> I thought there was genocide in Xinjiang, Elon Musk must be held accountable



Is Elon Musk a Muslim? or somehow a moral guide for you that anything he does justifies things for you and makes it okay?. 

Like many other western companies, Tesla is also doing business in East Turkestan because there are slaves there and labor is practically free. They can't do that in western countries so its logical they move to a slave labor country


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## Stranagor

beijingwalker said:


> *Tesla Opens its First Store in Xinjiang, China*
> by Eva Fox
> January 01, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the last day of 2021, Tesla announced the opening of its first store in Urumqi, Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region in northwest China. This marks the official launch of the U.S. manufacturer's store and service network in the region.
> 
> Xiao Lu, Tesla's head of Northwest China, said the store is an important starting point for Tesla in developing its service network in Xinjiang, which not only provides one-stop services to local consumers but also continually extends the concept of environmental protection to the region, according to _Pandaily_.
> 
> This location is the westernmost Tesla presence in mainland China. The store covers an area of 1,620 square meters and offers pre-sales consultations, test drives, insurance consultations, temporary licensing, after-sales services, and other services for consumers in Urumqi and surrounding areas.
> 
> The store is also Tesla's 11th in Northwest China and 211th in the Chinese mainland. Tesla currently has stores in 60 cities across the mainland. In addition, Tesla currently has 7 Supercharger stations in Xinjiang. The company already has 2 Supercharger stations in Urumqi offering 14 stalls to ensure a great driving experience for car owners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tesla Opens its First Store in Xinjiang, China
> 
> 
> On the last day of the year, Tesla announced the opening of its first store in Urumqi, Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region in northwest China. This marks the official launch of a U.S. manufacturer's store and service network in the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tesmanian.com



I think NIO has multiple swap station in Xinjiang region, too.

Shows you climbing over 12000 per capita GDP does change things. 

Sour grapes can wait to become edible vinegar, for all I care.


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## beijingwalker

Stranagor said:


> I think NIO has multiple swap station in Xinjiang region, too.
> 
> Shows you climbing over 12000 per capita GDP does change things.
> 
> Sour grapes can wait to become edible vinegar, for all I care.


Domestic cars are good value for money, which dominate Xinjiang's market.

Your Uyghur couples in Xinjiang Kashgar buy a new car, good value for money.


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## beijingwalker

Some tourists from Hubei province had their car stuck in the mud in Akto County county in Xinjiang province, two local kyrgyz herdsmen tried several times and eventually helped the tourists push the car out of the pit, when the tourists offered to pay them money for the help, the herdsmen refuse to accept the money, the tourists insist and the herdsmen's Mandarin Chinese is very limited so in the heat of the exchange one herdsman showed his Chinese communist party badge to tell the tourists that he is a communist party member, serving the people is a party member's top principle.

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## K_Bin_W

fisher1 said:


> Is Elon Musk a Muslim? or somehow a moral guide for you that anything he does justifies things for you and makes it okay?.
> 
> Like many other western companies, Tesla is also doing business in East Turkestan because there are slaves there and labor is practically free. They can't do that in western countries so its logical they move to a slave labor country




You missed the point I was trying to make, Yeah sure there is genocide in China and amreeka is sooo very concern, Cry me a river baby... LOL...


----------



## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang Kashgar old town rebuilding and renovation project*
Xinjiang Kashgar old town renovation project. the world old town used to be built with mud and adobe, but Kashgar is a very earthquake active region, houses in Kashgar old town are beautiful with over 1000 years long history but they can't withstand even minor earthquakes. Now all houses had been rebuilt with steel and concret, can withstand 8 degrees eathquake, they are also hook up with all modern facilities, running water, gas pipe, sewage system, wifi... the alleys were also broadened allowing fire trucks and ambulences to go in.


----------



## beijingwalker

*Today's Xinjiang Kashgar old town 2021*


----------



## beijingwalker

*Children's life at night in Kashgar old town*


----------



## beijingwalker

*Where people "concentrate" in Uyghur city Kashgar in Xinjiang*


----------



## beijingwalker

*How much money the government spends on supporting one border herder's family in Xinjiang, crazy..!!! I lost count. So unfair! China, are you kidding me..*


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## Stranagor

beijingwalker said:


> *How much money the government spends on supporting one border herder's family in Xinjiang, crazy..!!! I lost count. So unfair! China, are you kidding me..*



Good governance and good economy are mutually inclusive. A lot of governance problems in many developing countries are fundamentally economic which leads to governance problems. Somehow and someway, the vicious cycle has to be broken. This requires hard work and sacrifice. China appers to have broken the vicious cycle and now enjoys a benevolent cycle.

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## beijingwalker

Pamir nursing homes
The government built nursing homes on Pamir mountains 4000 meters above the sea level for old people from poor families and old senior citizens without children, good environment, good food , 4 meals a day, and daily health care, all for free. for senior citizens over 90 years old, an one on one personal helper is provided to take care everything from combing hair to taking a bath.

Now is deep winter time, but Pamir nursing homes green house yards make people feel like spring time


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Afghanistan and Kashmir would be heaven for Uighurs, of course they want it


These Pamir nursing homes are literally a couple of kilometers away from Afghanistan, the "heaven" as you claimed, and these old people would have been long buried in their graves and become skeletons for years if not decades if they were luckily on the "heaven" side of the border.


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## MH.Yang

beijingwalker said:


> *Daughter of a martyred Uighur officer follows father's step to become a police officer*
> 
> 22 years old daughter of a martyred Uighur officer follows father's step to become a police officer
> 
> Her father was the head officer of a police station in rural Xinjiang, he gave his own life protecting people from a group of terrorists in 2015, the girl was a college student back then and after her father's death she determined to become a police officer like her father, she transfered from her college to Xinjaing police academy, now she is carrying her father's unfinished task and becomes an officer protecting the country and the people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 我的爸爸，他不是我的英雄。如果他是我的英雄，他不应该站在我这边吗？不应该二十年来，对待家庭也像对待公安事业一样热血付出吗？”
> 
> 是的，在小女儿喀伊热·买买提江的记忆中，买买提江·托乎尼牙孜是个比普通朋友联系还要少的父亲，他永远在忙，生活中基本没管过孩子，没顾过家庭。
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://m2.people.cn/r/MV8wXzExMjQ4MTAxXzMwXzE1MzA4NDE2MTE=
> 
> Her father, an honored national hero by the government
> 
> That girl still remembered that heartbroken moment when she learned that his father died in fighting terrorism as a freshman in college, she just couldn't believe it, after the sorrow set down she already made up her mind to become a police officer just like her father,but when she told her mother on this decision her mother wept and tried to stop her, saying " Our family had already given one life to the country, isn't that enough"! But the girl was so determined , one day she went back home wearing borrowed police uniform, her mother just broke into tears when seeing that uniform and agreed with the daughter's decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 喀伊热·买买提江: Every time when I hear the Chinese National anthem and see the rise of the Chinese national flag, I just can't hold back my tears, they are the embodyment of my father who gave his life to the people and the country, when I see and hear them, I can feel the presence of my father again. When I was lucky enough to sing the Chinese national anthem together with president Xi during a conference in Beijing, I just could control my overwhelming emotions.
> 
> 喀伊热·买买提江 talks about her story and her father who gave his life for the country, she almost cried when mentioning her father, the pain is still too strong for this young girl.



Chinese police have a tradition: The serial numbers of all police killed in action will be frozen. Only when their immediate family member also becomes a policeman can they apply for unfreezing and inheriting this serial number.
So every time 喀伊热·买买提江 touched the serial number plate on her chest, she could feel that her father was still with her.

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## beijingwalker

How kids living in the desert region in Xinjiang manage to beat the summer heat





How people living in the Taklamakan desert region in Xinjiang to have man-made snow fun in winter

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## beijingwalker

*THE BBC ARE LYING ABOUT XINJIANG*


> I recently went down a rabbit hole regarding the western news reporting on China and Chinese affairs. I think if any layperson like me watches the blatant manipulation and coverage that companies like the BBC report, then we might have a chance to see the unfair and bias way the western media report on China.

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang students enjoy professional skiing training during PE classes*

Since Beijing won the bid for the 2022 Winter Olympics, some schools have begun to conduct PE classes in ski resorts to let students enjoy professional training. Here's a glimpse of ski training in Altay of Xinjiang, China.


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## beijingwalker

*How many babies can Uygurs have in Xinjiang?*


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> These Pamir nursing homes are literally a couple of kilometers away from Afghanistan, the "heaven" as you claimed, and these old people would have been long buried in their graves and become skeletons for years if not decades if they were luckily on the "heaven" side of the border.



Anywhere you don't get raped or your organs harvest for sure is a heaven. It's not much but at least your life or honor or faith isn't under threat which is something we can't say about the poor Uighurs suffering a holocaust


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## aziqbal

364 pages of Chinese bloggers posting fakes videos on youtube 

Chinese must be really stupid to believe such videos 

no wonder Huawei failed


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## Stranagor

beijingwalker said:


> *How many babies can Uygurs have in Xinjiang?*



With development, more education, financial independence of women, and secularism, the numbers will drop to more developed regions' levels.


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## Stranagor

http://t.m.china.org.cn/convert/c_ympPz0N0.html


Xinjiang airports resume int'l cargo operations


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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> 364 pages of Chinese bloggers posting fakes videos on youtube
> 
> Chinese must be really stupid to believe such videos
> 
> no wonder Huawei failed


Which one is fake? could you point it out?

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## beijingwalker

Uyghur girl goes to northern Xinjiang Altay region for winter fishing festival, it's freezing cold but tourists still swarmed in for this festival, the first fish caught in this festival fetched 48,8888 yuan, ( $6,7000USD) in the auction.

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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Which one is fake? could you point it out?


The question is which one is real








Uighurs in Turkey file criminal case against Chinese officials


Uighur Muslims in Istanbul accuse Chinese officials of committing genocide, torture, rape and crimes against humanity.




www.aljazeera.com





*Uighurs in Turkey file criminal case against Chinese officials*
_Uighur Muslims in Istanbul accuse Chinese officials of committing genocide, torture, rape and crimes against humanity._





Ethnic Uighur men take part in a protest against China in front of the Caglayan Courthouse in Istanbul, Turkey [Dilara Senkaya/Reuters]
Published On 4 Jan 20224 Jan 2022
Nineteen people from China’s Uighur Muslim ethnic group have filed a criminal complaint with a Turkish prosecutor against Chinese officials, accusing them of committing genocide, torture, rape and crimes against humanity.
Lawyer Gulden Sonmez said on Tuesday it was necessary because international bodies had not acted against Chinese authorities, who have been accused of facilitating forced labour by detaining about a million Uighurs and other primarily Muslim minorities in camps since 2016.
*KEEP READING*
list of 4 itemslist 1 of 4*Mass surveillance fuels oppression of Uighurs and Palestinians*
list 2 of 4*More countries criticise China at UN for repression of Uighurs*
list 3 of 4*Xinjiang’s ‘architecture of repression’ targets Muslim Uighurs*
list 4 of 4*Muslim groups boycott Hilton over planned hotel on Uighur mosque*
end of list

China initially denied the camps existed, but has since said they are vocational centres and are designed to combat extremism. It denies all accusations of abuse.
About 50,000 Uighurs – with whom Turks share ethnic, religious and linguistic connections – are believed to reside in Turkey, the largest Uighur diaspora outside Central Asia.
The complaint was filed on Tuesday with the Istanbul Chief Prosecutor’s Office.
China’s embassy in Turkey and the prosecutor’s office did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
“The international criminal court should have already started this trial, but China is a member of the [United Nations] Security Council and it does not seem possible within this dynamic,” Sonmez said outside the city’s main court.
Surrounding the lawyer were more than 50 people holding photos of missing family members and signs calling for the prosecution of Chinese officials.



Ethnic Uighur women raise the flag of East Turkestan outside the Caglayan Courthouse in Istanbul, Turkey [Dilara Senkaya/Reuters]
Some waved the blue-and-white flags of the independence movement of East Turkestan, a group Beijing has said threatens the stability of its far-western region of Xinjiang.
The complaint related to 116 people who the complainants said are still detained in China and was filed against 112 people, including members of the Chinese Communist Party, directors and officers at labour camps.
“Turkish legislation recognises universal jurisdiction. Torture, genocide, rape [and] crimes against humanity can be prosecuted in Turkish courts and criminals can be tried,” Sonmez said.
*‘Rescue my sister’*
Medine Nazimi, one of those who filed the criminal complaint, said her sister had been taken away in 2017 and she had not been heard from since.
“My sister and I are Turkish citizens so I want my government to rescue my sister,” Nazimi said.
Some of the Uighurs living in Turkey have criticised Ankara’s approach to China after the two nations agreed on an extradition treaty.



Play Video



Video Duration 00 minutes 56 seconds00:56
Canada calls on China to allow independent observers into Xinjiang
Turkey’s foreign minister said in March the deal was similar to those Ankara has with other states and denied it would lead to Uighurs being sent back to China.
Some Turkish opposition leaders have accused the government of overlooking Uighur rights in favour of other interests with China, which the government denies.
President Recep Tayyip Erdogan told his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping in July that it was important to Turkey that Uighur Muslims lived in peace as “equal citizens of China”, but said Turkey respected China’s national sovereignty.
UN experts and rights groups estimate more than a million people, mainly from the Uighur and other Muslim minorities, have been detained in recent years in camps in Xinjiang.


----------



## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> The question is which one is real
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uighurs in Turkey file criminal case against Chinese officials
> 
> 
> Uighur Muslims in Istanbul accuse Chinese officials of committing genocide, torture, rape and crimes against humanity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Uighurs in Turkey file criminal case against Chinese officials*
> _Uighur Muslims in Istanbul accuse Chinese officials of committing genocide, torture, rape and crimes against humanity._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic Uighur men take part in a protest against China in front of the Caglayan Courthouse in Istanbul, Turkey [Dilara Senkaya/Reuters]
> Published On 4 Jan 20224 Jan 2022
> Nineteen people from China’s Uighur Muslim ethnic group have filed a criminal complaint with a Turkish prosecutor against Chinese officials, accusing them of committing genocide, torture, rape and crimes against humanity.
> Lawyer Gulden Sonmez said on Tuesday it was necessary because international bodies had not acted against Chinese authorities, who have been accused of facilitating forced labour by detaining about a million Uighurs and other primarily Muslim minorities in camps since 2016.
> *KEEP READING*
> list of 4 itemslist 1 of 4*Mass surveillance fuels oppression of Uighurs and Palestinians*
> list 2 of 4*More countries criticise China at UN for repression of Uighurs*
> list 3 of 4*Xinjiang’s ‘architecture of repression’ targets Muslim Uighurs*
> list 4 of 4*Muslim groups boycott Hilton over planned hotel on Uighur mosque*
> end of list
> 
> China initially denied the camps existed, but has since said they are vocational centres and are designed to combat extremism. It denies all accusations of abuse.
> About 50,000 Uighurs – with whom Turks share ethnic, religious and linguistic connections – are believed to reside in Turkey, the largest Uighur diaspora outside Central Asia.
> The complaint was filed on Tuesday with the Istanbul Chief Prosecutor’s Office.
> China’s embassy in Turkey and the prosecutor’s office did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
> “The international criminal court should have already started this trial, but China is a member of the [United Nations] Security Council and it does not seem possible within this dynamic,” Sonmez said outside the city’s main court.
> Surrounding the lawyer were more than 50 people holding photos of missing family members and signs calling for the prosecution of Chinese officials.
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic Uighur women raise the flag of East Turkestan outside the Caglayan Courthouse in Istanbul, Turkey [Dilara Senkaya/Reuters]
> Some waved the blue-and-white flags of the independence movement of East Turkestan, a group Beijing has said threatens the stability of its far-western region of Xinjiang.
> The complaint related to 116 people who the complainants said are still detained in China and was filed against 112 people, including members of the Chinese Communist Party, directors and officers at labour camps.
> “Turkish legislation recognises universal jurisdiction. Torture, genocide, rape [and] crimes against humanity can be prosecuted in Turkish courts and criminals can be tried,” Sonmez said.
> *‘Rescue my sister’*
> Medine Nazimi, one of those who filed the criminal complaint, said her sister had been taken away in 2017 and she had not been heard from since.
> “My sister and I are Turkish citizens so I want my government to rescue my sister,” Nazimi said.
> Some of the Uighurs living in Turkey have criticised Ankara’s approach to China after the two nations agreed on an extradition treaty.
> 
> 
> 
> Play Video
> 
> 
> 
> Video Duration 00 minutes 56 seconds00:56
> Canada calls on China to allow independent observers into Xinjiang
> Turkey’s foreign minister said in March the deal was similar to those Ankara has with other states and denied it would lead to Uighurs being sent back to China.
> Some Turkish opposition leaders have accused the government of overlooking Uighur rights in favour of other interests with China, which the government denies.
> President Recep Tayyip Erdogan told his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping in July that it was important to Turkey that Uighur Muslims lived in peace as “equal citizens of China”, but said Turkey respected China’s national sovereignty.
> UN experts and rights groups estimate more than a million people, mainly from the Uighur and other Muslim minorities, have been detained in recent years in camps in Xinjiang.


Lots of real people vlog videos about Xinjiang, they are all real, you just post some random pics which show nothing but western propaganda.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Char

beijingwalker said:


> Uyghur girl goes to northern Xinjiang Altay region for winter fishing festival, it's freezing cold but tourists still swarmed in for this festival, the first fish caught in this festival fetched 48,8888 yuan, ( $6,7000USD) in the auction.



She speaks Mandarin very well, and her mouth shape is very standard when she speaks Mandarin.


----------



## Char

fisher1 said:


> The question is which one is real
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uighurs in Turkey file criminal case against Chinese officials
> 
> 
> Uighur Muslims in Istanbul accuse Chinese officials of committing genocide, torture, rape and crimes against humanity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Uighurs in Turkey file criminal case against Chinese officials*
> _Uighur Muslims in Istanbul accuse Chinese officials of committing genocide, torture, rape and crimes against humanity._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic Uighur men take part in a protest against China in front of the Caglayan Courthouse in Istanbul, Turkey [Dilara Senkaya/Reuters]
> Published On 4 Jan 20224 Jan 2022
> Nineteen people from China’s Uighur Muslim ethnic group have filed a criminal complaint with a Turkish prosecutor against Chinese officials, accusing them of committing genocide, torture, rape and crimes against humanity.
> Lawyer Gulden Sonmez said on Tuesday it was necessary because international bodies had not acted against Chinese authorities, who have been accused of facilitating forced labour by detaining about a million Uighurs and other primarily Muslim minorities in camps since 2016.
> *KEEP READING*
> list of 4 itemslist 1 of 4*Mass surveillance fuels oppression of Uighurs and Palestinians*
> list 2 of 4*More countries criticise China at UN for repression of Uighurs*
> list 3 of 4*Xinjiang’s ‘architecture of repression’ targets Muslim Uighurs*
> list 4 of 4*Muslim groups boycott Hilton over planned hotel on Uighur mosque*
> end of list
> 
> China initially denied the camps existed, but has since said they are vocational centres and are designed to combat extremism. It denies all accusations of abuse.
> About 50,000 Uighurs – with whom Turks share ethnic, religious and linguistic connections – are believed to reside in Turkey, the largest Uighur diaspora outside Central Asia.
> The complaint was filed on Tuesday with the Istanbul Chief Prosecutor’s Office.
> China’s embassy in Turkey and the prosecutor’s office did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
> “The international criminal court should have already started this trial, but China is a member of the [United Nations] Security Council and it does not seem possible within this dynamic,” Sonmez said outside the city’s main court.
> Surrounding the lawyer were more than 50 people holding photos of missing family members and signs calling for the prosecution of Chinese officials.
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic Uighur women raise the flag of East Turkestan outside the Caglayan Courthouse in Istanbul, Turkey [Dilara Senkaya/Reuters]
> Some waved the blue-and-white flags of the independence movement of East Turkestan, a group Beijing has said threatens the stability of its far-western region of Xinjiang.
> The complaint related to 116 people who the complainants said are still detained in China and was filed against 112 people, including members of the Chinese Communist Party, directors and officers at labour camps.
> “Turkish legislation recognises universal jurisdiction. Torture, genocide, rape [and] crimes against humanity can be prosecuted in Turkish courts and criminals can be tried,” Sonmez said.
> *‘Rescue my sister’*
> Medine Nazimi, one of those who filed the criminal complaint, said her sister had been taken away in 2017 and she had not been heard from since.
> “My sister and I are Turkish citizens so I want my government to rescue my sister,” Nazimi said.
> Some of the Uighurs living in Turkey have criticised Ankara’s approach to China after the two nations agreed on an extradition treaty.
> 
> 
> 
> Play Video
> 
> 
> 
> Video Duration 00 minutes 56 seconds00:56
> Canada calls on China to allow independent observers into Xinjiang
> Turkey’s foreign minister said in March the deal was similar to those Ankara has with other states and denied it would lead to Uighurs being sent back to China.
> Some Turkish opposition leaders have accused the government of overlooking Uighur rights in favour of other interests with China, which the government denies.
> President Recep Tayyip Erdogan told his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping in July that it was important to Turkey that Uighur Muslims lived in peace as “equal citizens of China”, but said Turkey respected China’s national sovereignty.
> UN experts and rights groups estimate more than a million people, mainly from the Uighur and other Muslim minorities, have been detained in recent years in camps in Xinjiang.



There are East Turkistan flags everywhere and they are all criminals.

You have a very strange mind, are they allowed to commit crimes because they are muslims?

You should get some formal education.


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang Urumqi new Children's Hospital in final testing stage*


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## beijingwalker

*New children's hospital in Xinjiang Urumqi had completed and will be opened soon!Can accommodate 1200 beds*
2022-01-16 21:28 HKT

The Chengbei Branch of the Children's Hospital of Urumqi, located in the north of Chengbei New District, is now fully completed and will be opened soon. This also means that this tertiary A hospital with a capacity of 1,200 beds will be given to Urumqi medical institutions. This new children's hospital is especially for the upgrade of Urumqi's pediatrics.

Currently, Urumqi has two specialized children's hospitals.

The Chengbei Children's Hospital invested 2.28 billion yuan ( $360 million USD) , has a total construction area of 230,000 square meters, and it also has a rehabilitation and health center, a blood center, a scientific research and training center, an infection center, and a children's science museum.

It contains internal medicine (neonatology, pediatric gastroenterology, pediatric respiratory, pediatric cardiovascular, pediatric nephrology, pediatric rheumatology, hematology, etc.), surgery (new students) Pediatric Surgery, Pediatric General Surgery, Pediatric Orthopedics, Pediatric Neurosurgery, Cardiothoracic Surgery, etc.), Ophthalmology, Otorhinolaryngology, Stomatology, Dermatology, Critical Care Medicine, Emergency Medicine, Traditional Chinese Medicine, Rehabilitation Medicine, Child Health Care, Infection The total number of beds in 12 departments will reach 1,200.













* New Urumqi children's *_*hospital




























*_

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## fisher1

Char said:


> There are East Turkistan flags everywhere and they are all criminals.
> 
> You have a very strange mind, are they allowed to commit crimes because they are muslims?
> 
> You should get some formal education.



One man's crimes are another man's heroism

Same as your re-education camps are a holocaust upon the Muslims


----------



## beijingwalker

Xinjiang now boasts the world top class infrastructure, the gem of central Asia.

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## beijingwalker

No matter how hard China haters try to smear Xinjiang, their lies become pale as hell in front of the reality that Xinjiang enjoys central and south Asia's best economy, infrastructure, standard of living, boasts the best high speed railways, highways, subways, airports, schools and universities, museums, theaters, hospitals, libraries, sports facilities...in the whole central and south Asia, Xinjiang's superb development and modernization is the best anwser to China haters lies.


----------



## Char

fisher1 said:


> One man's crimes are another man's heroism
> 
> Same as your re-education camps are a holocaust upon the Muslims



You believe in the law of the jungle, But you are not strong, this is the source of your pain.

Are Westerners who killed millions of Muslims also heroes?

If you want to learn the double standard of the West, you must first become strong. Of course, China does not like double standards when it becomes strong.


----------



## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang Urumqi Olympic park opens*
Investment of 4 billion Yuan, ($634 million USD) The Urmqi Olympic park has a 30,000 seat modern all purpose stadium, 12,000 seats gymnasium, 2000 seats track and field stadium, 3000 seats swimming center, public sports center for variou sports, boxing, gym, badminton, tennis..., hotel complex for athletes and tourists.






*Xinjiang Urumqi Olympic park Winter sports center*







*Xinjiang Urumqi Olympic park opens



















































*


----------



## Nan Yang

U.S. NEWS

JAN. 13, 2022 / 4:57 AM
*U.S. lawmakers want proof Olympic uniforms not made with Xinjiang forced labor*
By Thomas Maresca





U.S. lawmakers are asking the International Olympic Committee to prove that uniforms for the upcoming Beijing Winter Games were not made with forced labor in Xinjiang Province. File Photo by Roman Pilipey/EPA-EFE






The United States and other countries including Britain, Australia and Canada, are conducting a diplomatic boycott of the Beijing Olympics over China's human rights abuses in Xinjiang and elsewhere. Photo by Wu Hong/EPA-EFE

Jan. 13 (UPI) -- A bipartisan group of U.S. lawmakers is asking the International Olympic Committee for answers about uniforms for the upcoming Beijing Winter Games made with cotton from Xinjiang Province, where China is accused of widespread human rights abuses.

The Congressional-Executive Commission on China sent a letter Wednesday to IOC President Thomas Bach seeking clarification on the group's contracts with a pair of manufacturers, *Anta Sports and Hengyuanxiang Group, which have stated publicly that they source cotton from Xinjiang.*

Cotton produced in Xinjiang is "synonymous with forced labor and the systematic repression that takes place there," the CECC letter said.

"There is a worrisome possibility that IOC personnel or others attending the 2022 Olympic Games will be wearing clothing contaminated by forced labor," it continued.

Researchers say that at least 1 million predominantly Muslim Uyghurs have been held in re-education camps in Xinjiang Province, and have been subject to abuses that include torture, forced labor and forced sterilization. China denies all allegations.

In December, U.S. President Joe Biden signed the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act into law, banning imports from Xinjiang unless suppliers are able to prove "by clear and convincing evidence" that the products are not made with forced labor.

The United States also announced last month that it would not send diplomatic or official representation to the Beijing Olympics over what White House spokeswoman Jen Psaki called China's "ongoing genocide and crimes against humanity in Xinjiang and other human rights abuses."

Wednesday's letter was sent by commission chairman Sen. Jeff Merkley, D-Ore., and co-chairman Rep. James P. McGovern, D-Mass., and was signed by Rep. Christopher Smith, R-N.J.

"As a starting point to fulfilling its commitment to uphold and respect human rights, and in line with the preservation of human dignity enshrined in the Olympic Charter, the IOC must uphold and respect the human rights of those who made the uniforms on their backs," the letter said.

The 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics are set to run from Feb. 4 to 20.


LOL What will US neo-con politicians force their athletes do next. Strip them off ? Then what will they wear ?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Char

fisher1 said:


> Hiding behind West isn't going to clean the ugly atrocities China is commiting



You and the West actually have the same attitude towards others.


----------



## fisher1

Char said:


> You and the West actually have the same attitude towards others.


I don't even like West LOL, sick of their LGBT crap. 

But you are right. I agree with west on Chinese treatment of Muslims


----------



## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Too bad the Uighurs whose land upon these are built don't get to enjoy it


They enjoy their lives much better than you do, free education, free school meals, free health care, free housing for poor families, every household owns private cars.... all world top class infrastructure , facilities , public transportation availble for everyone to enjoy in the cities, towns, villages, a life you can only dream of.


----------



## beijingwalker

2022, January, Winter night, Urumqi city, Xinjiang, China
So called mass concentration camp in Xinjiang by western media, how would this city compare with US cities where homeless people sleep everywhere, criminals and drug addicts lurk around in the dark city streets.


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> They enjoy their lives much better than you do



Dude, why won't you admit to the concentration camps. Your government literally has admitted to the existence of such a camp. Do the wumaos not get the memo?

I mean seriously, cut off the face mask and talk like a real person. Everyone knows Uighurs aren't enjoying any of this infrastructure. The question is what kind of treatment they are getting inside those concentration camps.

This is literally what your government says





__





Education enrollments in Xinjiang reach highest level in history: white paper - Xinhua | English.news.cn






www.xinhuanet.com


----------



## Stranagor

beijingwalker said:


> Uyghur girl goes to northern Xinjiang Altay region for winter fishing festival, it's freezing cold but tourists still swarmed in for this festival, the first fish caught in this festival fetched 48,8888 yuan, ( $6,7000USD) in the auction.



Xinjiang is a favorate travel destination for RV people.


----------



## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Dude, why won't you admit to the concentration camps. Your government literally has admitted to the existence of such a camp. Do the wumaos not get the memo?
> 
> I mean seriously, cut off the face mask and talk like a real person. Everyone knows Uighurs aren't enjoying any of this infrastructure. The question is what kind of treatment they are getting inside those concentration camps.
> 
> This is literally what your government says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Education enrollments in Xinjiang reach highest level in history: white paper - Xinhua | English.news.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.xinhuanet.com


Your western propaganda doesn't cut ice in Xinjiang, the locals love their life now, and your claim that to Uighurs Afghanistan and Kashmir are like heavens, LOL, this is so ridiculous, do you really believe your own claim of this...?


----------



## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> the locals love their life now



Strange that we don't see the locals show us how they enjoy that life and any outsider isn't allowed with camera to film this happiness all around in Urumqi and Kashgar.

The only source that shows us this happiness is CCP with their pathetic propaganda videos


----------



## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Strange that we don't see the locals


Only blind people won't see, there are tons of videos on youtube, all packed with locals in XInjiang, are you really blind?

*Where people "concentrate" in Uyghur city Kashgar in Xinjiang*





*Kashgar Old Town Night Market Xinjiang，Night Walk 4K. Oct 22, 2020 . So many people, Aren't they supposed to be in camps?*


----------



## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Afghanistan and Kashmir would be heaven for Uighurs, of course they want it


Xinjiang's GDP per capita could be over $10,000 last year, very close to developed country's level, how about your "heaven" Aghanistan and Kashmir?


----------



## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang's GDP per capita could be over $10,000 last year, very close to developed country's level, how about your "heaven" Aghanistan and Kashmir?



doesn't benefit Uighurs. That only benefits the racist Hans who are doing an ethnic cleansing and suppression of every other ethnicity


----------



## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> doesn't benefit Uighurs. That only benefits the racist Hans who are doing an ethnic cleansing and suppression of every other ethnicity


Did you see the videos? you can see most who get the benefits from the government are Uighurs, you pretend to be blind again, don't you? besides, you claim that Afghanistan and Kashmir are like heaven for Uyghurs and Uyghurs love those heavens, assume if China and Afhanistan open their borders, how many Uyghur do you think will cross the border to move to Aghanistan and how many Afghanis, who, living in the heaven as you claimed, will cross into Xinjiang? a per capita GDP $500 Vs $10,000 's question.


----------



## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Did you see the videos? you can see most who get the benefits from the government are Uighurs, you pretend to be blind again, don't you? besides, you claim that Afghanistan and Kashmir are like heaven for Uyghurs and Uyghurs love those heavens, assume if China and Afhanistan open their borders, how many Uyghur do you think will cross the border to move to Aghanistan and how many Afghanis, who, living in the heaven as you claimed, will cross into Xinjiang? a per capita GDP $500 Vs $10,000 's question.



easy now, you seem like you want me to put into a concentration camp now, lure my family in and then start harvesting all of our organs   

None of your videos show any mosques or anything about Islam which is what Urumqi and Kashgar are famous for.


----------



## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> easy now, you seem like you want me to put into a concentration camp now, lure my family in and then start harvesting all of our organs
> 
> None of your videos show any mosques or anything about Islam which is what Urumqi and Kashgar are famous for.


lOl, organs? tell me one thing, why Afghani kids, who live in the heavens as you claimed, come to Xinjiang, a hell, for medical help and not the otherway around?





Afghan children receive free heart surgery in China


Afghan children receive free heart surgery in China Afghan children with congenital heart disease (CHD) receive free treatment in China's Xinjiang province. It was a project sponsored by the B&R Fraternity Fund, which aims to help children with heart disease in Afghanistan.



defence.pk


----------



## MajesticPug

fisher1 said:


> doesn't benefit Uighurs. That only benefits the racist Hans who are doing an ethnic cleansing and suppression of every other ethnicity



Years ago I traveled to Xinjiang and the only racists I met were the Uighurs. During the trip I met one Han, several Hui's, and numerous Kazak(?), and a few Uighurs. Of these groups the Uighurs were the most belligerent and racist, may I say, toward anyone not Uighurs. Read the Xinjiang history, Uighurs were not the majority in North Xinjiang until after they ethnically cleansed the Kazak. Only the Qing stopped the Uighurs their ethnic cleansing massacres against Hans, Mongols, Kazaks, Huis.


fisher1 said:


> easy now, you seem like you want me to put into a concentration camp now, lure my family in and then start harvesting all of our organs
> 
> None of your videos show any mosques or anything about Islam which is what Urumqi and Kashgar are famous for.



Another American troll hiding under the Pak flags. Just f**kin admit your BS and your per-post 50 cents from the State Dept. Then maybe we can meet to have a coffee. My treat.. if you told me how you earned your 50 cents every BS post you wrote. I want to make some $$ too bro.


----------



## beijingwalker

MajesticPug said:


> Years ago I traveled to Xinjiang and the only racists I met were the Uighurs. During the trip I met one Han, several Hui's, and numerous Kazak(?), and a few Uighurs. Of these groups the Uighurs were the most belligerent and racist, may I say, toward anyone not Uighurs. Read the Xinjiang history, Uighurs were not the majority in North Xinjiang until after they ethnically cleansed the Kazak. Only the Qing stopped the Uighurs their ethnic cleansing massacres against Hans, Mongols, Kazaks, Huis.


This fish guy has never been to Xinjiang, it's useless to talk about your first hand experience about Xinjiang , he only lives in his make believe Xinjiang, and Afghanistan, in his make believe world, the latter is the heaven.


----------



## beijingwalker

MajesticPug said:


> Another American troll hiding under the Pak flags. Just f**kin admit your BS and your per-post 50 cents from the State Dept. Then maybe we can meet to have a coffee. My treat.. if you told me how you earned your 50 cents every BS post you wrote. I want to make some $$ too bro.


His garbage US cities are like a huge landfill in front of glistening, super modern cities and towns in Xinjiang now.


----------



## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> lOl, organs? tell me one thing, why Afghani kids, who live in the heavens as you claimed, come to Xinjiang, a hell, for medical help and not the otherway around?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Afghan children receive free heart surgery in China
> 
> 
> Afghan children receive free heart surgery in China Afghan children with congenital heart disease (CHD) receive free treatment in China's Xinjiang province. It was a project sponsored by the B&R Fraternity Fund, which aims to help children with heart disease in Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



Afghan kids aren't being put in concentration camps though. Uighurs are


MajesticPug said:


> Years ago I traveled to Xinjiang and the only racists I met were the Uighurs. During the trip I met one Han, several Hui's, and numerous Kazak(?), and a few Uighurs. Of these groups the Uighurs were the most belligerent and racist, may I say, toward anyone not Uighurs. Read the Xinjiang history, Uighurs were not the majority in North Xinjiang until after they ethnically cleansed the Kazak. Only the Qing stopped the Uighurs their ethnic cleansing massacres against Hans, Mongols, Kazaks, Huis.



Did you recommend for them to be sent into concentration camps to take the "racism" and backwardness out of them?



MajesticPug said:


> Another American troll hiding under the Pak flags. Just f**kin admit your BS and your per-post 50 cents from the State Dept. Then maybe we can meet to have a coffee. My treat.. if you told me how you earned your 50 cents every BS post you wrote. I want to make some $$ too bro.



hahaha a wumao false flagger telling a Pakistan about 50 cents  This is hilarious


----------



## Iñigo

The striking thing is seeing how the quality of the Trolls that post to this forum has dropped, it is worrying, we no longer deserve good quality Trolls


----------



## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Afghan kids aren't being put in concentration camps though. Uighurs are



lol, do you think these Uighur kids love this camp?



Young couple, ( husband Chinese and wife Korean ) visit Xinjiang Kashgar old town.( check out how beautiful Kashgar city is after "destruction" (renovation) at summer night.
The Korean lady asks a little girl whether she heard a country called Republic of Korea, the little girl shakes her head. Korean lady was very disappointed...
Later on, the young Chinese and Korean couple met the older sisters of these little kids, the older sisters are teenagers and they are so suprised that the lady is actually a Korean, unlike their little brothers, the teenager girls know Korea very well and love Korean music and TV shows, the teen girls can even speak Korean , they speak in Korean " How are you, I m Chinese". This makes this Korean lady very very happy.


----------



## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> lol, do you think these Uighur kids love this camp?



CHina so GOOD CHINA SUPERPOWA









Uighur scholar could be deported from Saudi Arabia 'within days', says family


Daughters of Aimadoula Waili told he is at imminent risk of being sent to China after being in detention since 2020




www.middleeasteye.net






*Uighur scholar could be deported from Saudi Arabia 'within days', says family*
Daughters of Aimadoula Waili told he is at imminent risk of being sent to China after being in detention since 2020





A photo showing a photo of Aimadoula Waili's passport (Supplied)
By 
Areeb Ullah
Published date: 10 January 2022 17:13 UTC | Last update: 1 week 1 day ago
1.7kShares
























A Uighur religious scholar detained without charge in Saudi Arabia may be deported "within days" to China, where he could face imprisonment and torture, his daughters have told Middle East Eye.


> 'We have not heard our father's voice for over a year, and it pains us knowing that he could be sent to China and be separated from him forever'
> _- Nurin Hemdullah, detained Uighur's daughter_


Aimadoula Waili, also known as Hemdullah Abduweli, is one of two Uighurs at risk of imminent deportation to China from the kingdom.
The scholar travelled to Saudi Arabia in 2020 on a yearlong visa from Turkey, where he is an official resident, to perform a pilgrimage to Mecca. But Waili went into hiding after the Chinese consulate in Riyadh allegedly requested his deportation.
The Chinese government is accused of detaining more than one million Uighurs and other Muslim minorities in the eastern Xinjiang region, and subjecting the community to abuses that some have labelled a "genocide". China denies the allegations of abuse.
Moving from one Uighur's home to another, Waili relied on a network of Uighurs inside Saudi Arabia to keep him safe, fearing that going to the airport would lead to his automatic deportation.
But he was eventually caught by authorities in November 2020 and taken to Dhahban Central Maximum Security Prison in Jeddah, where he has been held without charge.
Speaking to MEE, Waili's daughter Nurin Hemdullah and her sister said a Saudi judicial official had seen their father last week and told him to be "mentally prepared" to be deported "within days" to China.




Aimadoula Waili pictured in front of the Grand Mosque in Mecca before he was detained in Saudi Arabia (Supplied)
The women said they had spoken to a Uighur in Saudi Arabia monitoring the case, who said the judicial official confirmed the decision despite both men being accused of no crime in China or the kingdom.
"We have not heard our father's voice for over a year, and it pains us knowing that he could be sent to China and be separated from him forever," said Nurin.
"Since hearing about his possible deportation, we have cried non-stop. And whenever we think about this separation, the pain is just unbearable, and our heart breaks every time."
*Who are the Uighurs and why is China targeting them?*
+ Show






It remains unclear when Saudi Arabia could deport the two Uighurs. Maya Wang, a senior Human Rights Watch researcher on China, also spoke to their families and called on Saudi Arabia to halt the deportation.
"Saudi Arabia should not forcibly return these two Uighurs to China, where they are likely to disappear into a black hole," Wang told MEE.
"It's bad enough that Saudi Arabia has been unwilling to criticise the Chinese government's assault on Islam. But it's a shocking rejection of international law to forcibly return them."
Wang added that the families had told her the judicial official had also asked Waili and the other detained Uighur if they knew the names of other Uighurs in Saudi Arabia. 
*Targeted campaign on Uighurs *
Waili's possible deportation comes months after a Moroccan court approved the extradition of a Uighur activist after Beijing lodged a warrant for his arrest through Interpol.
Yidiresi Aishan, a 34-year-old father of three with residency status in Turkey, was detained by Moroccan police in Rabat after fleeing to the North African country.



Uighurs in Turkey file crimes against humanity case targeting Chinese officials
Read More »
It remains unclear why Morocco approved Aishan's extradition after Interpol cancelled the "red notice" arrest warrant issued against him.
Interpol cancelled the red notice in August after its general secretariat received new information about Aishan.
In October 2020, BBC News reported that Saudi Arabia and other Muslim-majority countries, including Egypt and the United Arab Emirates, had collaborated with Beijing to deport Uighurs back to China.
In 2019, Chinese documents leaked to the New York Times showed how China managed its re-education camps and mass surveillance of the Uighur population in the Xingjiang province.
Excerpts from the documents showed how China identified nearly 6,000 Uighurs who were abroad or had papers to travel to be monitored by the Chinese state.
It ordered officials to track down individuals "for whom suspected terrorism cannot be ruled out" and "individuals the moment they cross the border and placed into concentrated education and training".


----------



## Stranagor

Nan Yang said:


> U.S. NEWS
> 
> JAN. 13, 2022 / 4:57 AM
> *U.S. lawmakers want proof Olympic uniforms not made with Xinjiang forced labor*
> By Thomas Maresca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. lawmakers are asking the International Olympic Committee to prove that uniforms for the upcoming Beijing Winter Games were not made with forced labor in Xinjiang Province. File Photo by Roman Pilipey/EPA-EFE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States and other countries including Britain, Australia and Canada, are conducting a diplomatic boycott of the Beijing Olympics over China's human rights abuses in Xinjiang and elsewhere. Photo by Wu Hong/EPA-EFE
> 
> Jan. 13 (UPI) -- A bipartisan group of U.S. lawmakers is asking the International Olympic Committee for answers about uniforms for the upcoming Beijing Winter Games made with cotton from Xinjiang Province, where China is accused of widespread human rights abuses.
> 
> The Congressional-Executive Commission on China sent a letter Wednesday to IOC President Thomas Bach seeking clarification on the group's contracts with a pair of manufacturers, *Anta Sports and Hengyuanxiang Group, which have stated publicly that they source cotton from Xinjiang.*
> 
> Cotton produced in Xinjiang is "synonymous with forced labor and the systematic repression that takes place there," the CECC letter said.
> 
> "There is a worrisome possibility that IOC personnel or others attending the 2022 Olympic Games will be wearing clothing contaminated by forced labor," it continued.
> 
> Researchers say that at least 1 million predominantly Muslim Uyghurs have been held in re-education camps in Xinjiang Province, and have been subject to abuses that include torture, forced labor and forced sterilization. China denies all allegations.
> 
> In December, U.S. President Joe Biden signed the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act into law, banning imports from Xinjiang unless suppliers are able to prove "by clear and convincing evidence" that the products are not made with forced labor.
> 
> The United States also announced last month that it would not send diplomatic or official representation to the Beijing Olympics over what White House spokeswoman Jen Psaki called China's "ongoing genocide and crimes against humanity in Xinjiang and other human rights abuses."
> 
> Wednesday's letter was sent by commission chairman Sen. Jeff Merkley, D-Ore., and co-chairman Rep. James P. McGovern, D-Mass., and was signed by Rep. Christopher Smith, R-N.J.
> 
> "As a starting point to fulfilling its commitment to uphold and respect human rights, and in line with the preservation of human dignity enshrined in the Olympic Charter, the IOC must uphold and respect the human rights of those who made the uniforms on their backs," the letter said.
> 
> The 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics are set to run from Feb. 4 to 20.
> 
> 
> LOL What will US neo-con politicians force their athletes do next. Strip them off ? Then what will they wear ?




ANTA is a great brand. US populist elites better invest in it.


beijingwalker said:


> lol, do you think these Uighur kids love this camp?
> 
> 
> 
> Young couple, ( husband Chinese and wife Korean ) visit Xinjiang Kashgar old town.( check out how beautiful Kashgar city is after "destruction" (renovation) at summer night.
> The Korean lady asks a little girl whether she heard a country called Republic of Korea, the little girl shakes her head. Korean lady was very disappointed...
> Later on, the young Chinese and Korean couple met the older sisters of these little kids, the older sisters are teenagers and they are so suprised that the lady is actually a Korean, unlike their little brothers, the teenager girls know Korea very well and love Korean music and TV shows, the teen girls can even speak Korean , they speak in Korean " How are you, I m Chinese". This makes this Korean lady very very happy.



Secularization is unavoidable with development.


----------



## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> CHina so GOOD CHINA SUPERPOWA


No. As you claimed in your previous post, Afghanistan and Kashmir are heaven comparing to China , you better stick to your claims and don't change your mind so quickly.


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## beijingwalker

In the middle of the freezing winter, have a taste of Xinjiang in Hotan night food market in Xinjiang's small desert town Hotan.


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> No. As you claimed in your previous post, Afghanistan and Kashmir are heaven comparing to China , you better stick to your claims and don't change your mind so quickly.



Who's changing? Send Uighurs to Kashmir and Afghanistan. They will be the happiest ever. 

China crying over same bullying practices applied to them hehe 








China calls US law on Xinjiang imports ‘economic bullying’


China’s Commerce Ministry expresses ‘strong dissatisfaction and firm opposition’ to the US ban on imports from Xinjiang.




www.aljazeera.com


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Who's changing? Send Uighurs to Kashmir and Afghanistan. They will be the happiest ever.


Lol. How many people believe your this claim? Uighurs are dreaming about moving to Afghanistan? Not even western media made such a claim, who told you this?


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Lol. How many people believe your this claim? Uighurs are dreaming about moving to Afghanistan? Not even western media made such a claim, who told you this?



Uighurs and Uighurs activists.

Uighurs even fled to Pakistan but your Chinese regime is so vicious that it won't even allow few escaped Uighurs some freedom.


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang modern Na'an factories produce tons of na'an bread for central Asian countries, In many Xinjiang restaurants, Na'an bread are for free.
Production line mass production can bring the cost to almost nothing, even for na'an bread. No wonder that all Chinese products are so highly competitive.


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Uighurs and Uighurs activists.


So the so called Uighur activists tell you all Uighurs are dreaming of going to Afghanistan to live in the heavens? Are you really serious?


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> So the so called Uighur activists tell you all Uighurs are dreaming of going to Afghanistan to live in the heavens? Are you really serious?



They sure as sheet dont want to live in a Muslim holocaust

if China was so great, there won't be Uighurs refugees in Pakistan, Turkey and rest of the world. 

You don't see Pakistani refugees in China


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> They sure as sheet dont want to live in a Muslim holocaust
> 
> if China was so great, there won't be Uighurs refugees in Pakistan, Turkey and rest of the world.
> 
> You don't see Pakistani refugees in China


China has more Han Chinese ‘’refugees" seeking political asylum in foreign countries too for different made up reasons, but you can't claim that just because of some of these "refugees" , the whole nation want to move abroad.
China doesn't accept any so called ‘’refugees" from any countries, you can start a poll to see how many people here agreeing with you that Uighurs love to move to Afghanistan or Kashmir because those places are heavens for all Uighurs, and you will find how funny most people think of you here.


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## Stranagor

beijingwalker said:


> In the middle of the freezing winter, have a taste of Xinjiang in Hotan night food market in Xinjiang's small desert town Hotan.



Night markets are good.


beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang modern Na'an factories produce tons of na'an bread for central Asian countries, In many Xinjiang restaurants, Na'an bread are for free.
> Production line mass production can bring the cost to almost nothing, even for na'an bread. No wonder that all Chinese products are so highly competitive.



Now, that bread is delicious. I am sure it is enjoyed all of China as Xinjiang delicacy.


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## Char

beijingwalker said:


> China has more Han Chinese ‘’refugees" seeking political asylum in foreign countries too for different made up reasons, but you can't claim that just because of some of these "refugees" , the whole nation want to move abroad.
> China doesn't accept any so called ‘’refugees" from any countries, you can start a poll to see how many people here agreeing with you that Uighurs love to move to Afghanistan or Kashmir because those places are heavens for all Uighurs, and you will find how funny most people think of you here.



How many Afghan refugees are abroad?

@fisher1


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## beijingwalker

*Kids having fun in their school in Xinjiang Bayingolin prefecture*
5 years ago the government requested all Xinjiang rural village schools must have a standard soccer pitch, but some schools didn't have enough space for the new requested facilities, so, many village officials pleaded with the local farmers to give some of their farmlands to the schools, many local farmers responded to the plea and gave some of their farmlands to the schools, now kids can happily play around in those newly built campus fields. This is one rural village school in Xinjiang Bayingolin prefecture.


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## beijingwalker

In Afghanistan, kids have to go through the garbage to find food to stave off hunger, and some one claims Afghanistan is like a heaven to Uyghurs and they all love to walk aross the border to move to Afghanistan.Lol...


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang policy 2022, all residential buildings of 4 storeys or more must be equipped with elevators*

Xinjiang policy 2022, all residential buildings of 4 storeys or more must be equipped with elevators, parking areas should be within 150 meters from the buildings they belong to.


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## beijingwalker

*Uygur Slave Labor DEBUNKED: New legal paper slams ASPI's report*


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## beijingwalker

Is there a " cultural genocide" in Xinjiang? Do children still learn Uyghur language in school? Hong kong based Phoenix TV goes to Xinjiang and finds out


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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484740182125719552


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## beijingwalker

US ‘propaganda’ against China on Xinjiang ‘groundless’: MPs of Pakistan​January 22, 2022
By Monitoring Report

*ISLAMABAD:* Members of the parliament said the US “propaganda” against Beijing on Xinjiang, an autonomous territory in northwest China, is groundless.

The US accuses China of detaining more than one million Uyghurs, a Turkic ethnic group recognised as native to the Xinjiang region, against their will over the past few years in a large network of so-called re-education camps.

China denies the allegations and says its system of “re-education” camps are there to combat separatism and militancy.

Speaking at a webinar held by the Islamabad-based think-tank Pakistan-China Institute, Minister for Human Rights Shireen Mazari said the United States is desperately forming military alliances to undermine China on one hand, and on the other hand, it is leveling baseless allegations against China.

“When the US is seeking a new Cold War, the militarisation of global politics and global economics, China has a totally different way of approaching the world […] through shared economic prosperity, opening up the world through trade routes, and building up infrastructure in African countries and in Pakistan among others, so that everybody can achieve greater prosperity through greater cooperation, through international trade,” said the minister.

The Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) proposed by China aims to promote economic prosperity for all, she added.

Senator Mushahid Hussain Syed, who also chairs the Defense Committee of the Upper House, said at the event that the false allegations on Xinjiang are a part of the US propaganda to counter China.

“Pakistan will continue to support China on its core national interests,” he added.









US ‘propaganda’ against China on Xinjiang ‘groundless’: MPs


ISLAMABAD: Members of the parliament said the US "propaganda" against Beijing on Xinjiang, an autonomous territory in northwest China, is groundless.The US accuses China of detaining more than one




www.pakistantoday.com.pk

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang Uyghur girl visits Chengdu city in SW China, how Chengdu compare with cities in Xinjiang ?​Chengdu is a nice city, she admits that cities in Xinjiang still have some catch up to do with 2nd and 3rd tier cities in China, but all Chinese cities are superb, very developed now, there's no need to compare our different cities, all of them are very good, two thumbs up for all the Chinese cities, so proud of our country being so powerful , wealthy and prosperous.


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## dBSPL

Here are a few architectural examples of Uyghur handicrafts from the old city.


















Xinjiang Uyghur Muxtar Region-Qaşqar

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

dBSPL said:


> Here are a few architectural examples of Uyghur handicrafts from the old city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xinjiang Uyghur Muxtar Region-Qaşqar


The old houses were very beautiful, but they were all built with mud, adobe, a minor earthquake would flatten them all, and Xinjiang unfortunately is located in a very active earthquake zone, this is why those houses were all demolished and rebuilt on the same spots with concret and steel.


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang athletes for 2022 Beijing Winter Olympic Game leave Xinjiang for Beijing, people lined the street to see them off and suddenly a horde of herdsmen riding horses and holding Chinese national flags appeared and started to chase the Olympic convoy , a very special way to see the Xinjiang athletes off and wish them good luck in the Olympics. Much like proud parents seeing their children off to fight a battle of honor.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Char

beijingwalker said:


> The old houses were very beautiful, but they were all built with mud, adobe, a minor earthquake would flatten them all, and Xinjiang unfortunately is located in a very active earthquake zone, this is why those houses were all demolished and rebuilt on the same spots with concret and steel.



The ancient city of Kashgar was renovated according to the principle of rebuilding the old as the old.


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## Dungeness

Full paper by Jaq James is here: http://www.cowestpro.co/uploads/1/9/9/7/19974045/cowestpro_working_paper_jan_2022_v2.pdf

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

China's Xinjiang sees winter sports boom​With the Beijing 2022 Olympic Winter Games approaching, ice and snow sports are becoming more and more popular in China's Xinjiang. People of all ethnic groups are embracing the Winter Olympics in their own way.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Daniel808

Congrats  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486159268281667585


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang will beat the west in development level very soon if not already did


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## Daniel808

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang will beat the west in development level very soon if not already did



Already did.
Just look at Xinjiang today, making US look like slum


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485183021376540675


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## beijingwalker

5金4银3铜！全国速滑锦标赛新疆队成绩亮眼​Team Xinjiang won 5 golds, 4 silvers and 3 bronzes in the Chinese national speed skating championship, over a dozen of athletes from ethnic Uyghur, Kazakh, Kyrgyz will be representing China to compete in the coming 2022 Beijing Olympic Games









阿勒玛斯·卡汉拜（右一）在比赛中


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## Sayfullah

None of these Chinese state images of Uighurs show any of them dressed religiously or minarets on masjids.
I mean I don’t care what people wear but, what I find interesting is Uighur Muslims are very conservative practicing Muslim in the west and historically their society has been very conservative and practicing. However in the last 20 years especially we rarely seen any conservative Uighur anymore. I don’t see any big Uighur scholars or Islamic schools for Uighurs either in China. The big Uighur scholars in west are all anti China. 
It just seems very strange to me. And Chinese state tweets stating stuff like 3 million people went up “ re education “ camps of China is saying Uighur woman from being “baby factories” just make it much more suspicious.


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## beijingwalker

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> None of these Chinese state images of Uighurs show any of them dressed religiously or minarets on masjids.
> I mean I don’t care what people wear but, what I find interesting is Uighur Muslims are very conservative practicing Muslim in the west and historically their society has been very conservative and practicing. However in the last 20 years especially we rarely seen any conservative Uighur anymore. I don’t see any big Uighur scholars or Islamic schools for Uighurs either in China. The big Uighur scholars in west are all anti China.
> It just seems very strange to me. And Chinese state tweets stating stuff like 3 million people went up “ re education “ camps of China is saying Uighur woman from being “baby factories” just make it much more suspicious.


Central Asian countries are never very conservative to start with, if you like to see the most liberal part of central Asia, check out Kazakhstan, which is the closest to Xinjiang in culture, religion and ethnicity.

Kazakhstan


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## Sayfullah

beijingwalker said:


> Central Asian countries are never very conservative to start with, if you like to see the most liberal part of central Asia, check out Kazakhstan, which is the closest to Xinjiang in culture, religion and ethnicity.
> 
> Kazakhstan


Kazakhstan is different. East Turkistan was never part of Soviet Union so they remained conservative. West Turkistan (all the former Soviet states) use to be very conservative but soviets made them this way by destroying masjids and banning Islam.
Uighurs were always conservative just the last 20 years seem to have changed.


----------



## beijingwalker

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> Kazakhstan is different. East Turkistan was never part of Soviet Union so they remained conservative. West Turkistan (all the former Soviet states) use to be very conservative but soviets made them this way by destroying masjids and banning Islam.
> Uighurs were always conservative just the last 20 years seem to have changed.


No, you are wrong, Xinjiang is always a place where different culture mixing and blending together, liberal and tolerant, it's never an isolated, enclosed the region.

1943年，著名的美国《生活》杂志推出了一期用大量照片详细报道了1943年民国时期新疆的社会形态和风貌，极具史料价值。 Xinjiang Photos taken by an American reporter of LIFE magezine in 1943


















Jf-17 block 3 said:


> Kazakhstan is different. East Turkistan was never part of Soviet Union so they remained conservative. West Turkistan (all the former Soviet states) use to be very conservative but soviets made them this way by destroying masjids and banning Islam.


Then why no one condemns Kazakhstan for being so liberal?

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## beijingwalker

13 Xinjiang players were selected for the training list of 3 national youth teams​2022-01-28 15:29 HKT
Tianshan.com (reported by reporter Zheng Yiyuan) The Chinese Football Association has recently announced the list of three national youth teams for training, and a total of 13 Xinjiang players have been selected.

The U18 National Youth Team will organize the fourth 2021 training camp in Foshan, Guangdong from October 9th to 29th to prepare for the 2022 U20 Asian Cup preliminaries. In this training list, players from Xinjiang Hilzati Nur, Alekuti Aishajiang, Efeldin Iskar, Rehe Mitura Xuehereti, Baihe Ramu · Abdu's external force is on the list.




Xinjiang team striker Ai Rexidin Pahalding was selected into the U20 national football training squad. Photo courtesy of Ai Rexidine



https://min.news/en/sport/cf4272b8a3b12c297f88b21ad665ca3a.html


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## beijingwalker

Nighttime views of the Ancient City of Kashgar, NW China​ A live ancient town


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## chinasun




----------



## aziqbal

more fake videos from Chinese Youtube accounts ?

I reported 12 today 

and they not credible source of information


----------



## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> more fake videos from Chinese Youtube accounts ?
> 
> I reported 12 today
> 
> and they not credible source of information


LoL, YOU LOST IT AGAIN, tell me which video do you think is fake, can you?


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## beijingwalker

High plateau pastureland airport opens in Xinjiang, hundreds of horses and herders chase first plane​
Xinjiang Mongolküre County Tianma (heavenly horse) airport first flight conducted Jan.28, 2022. This is a high plateau pasture grassland airport in Xinjiang. Hundreds of horses and herders gathered and chased the first plane landing in the new airport, what a spectacular scene!! 

Mongolküre County，also Zhaosu County as the Chinese romanized name is a county situated within the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region and is under the administration of the Ili Kazakh Autonomous Prefecture, bordering Kazakhstan's Almaty Region to the west.


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## 帅的一匹

aziqbal said:


> more fake videos from Chinese Youtube accounts ?
> 
> I reported 12 today
> 
> and they not credible source of information


So what you expect? turn xingjiang into another Islamic state?


----------



## beijingwalker

beijingwalker said:


> High plateau pastureland airport opens in Xinjiang, hundreds of horses and herders chase first plane​
> Xinjiang Mongolküre County Tianma (heavenly horse) airport first flight conducted Jan.28, 2022. This is a high plateau pasture grassland airport in Xinjiang. Hundreds of horses and herders gathered and chased the first plane landing in the new airport, what a spectacular scene!!
> 
> Mongolküre County，also Zhaosu County as the Chinese romanized name is a county situated within the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region and is under the administration of the Ili Kazakh Autonomous Prefecture, bordering Kazakhstan's Almaty Region to the west.


This airport must be only for horses.... there are no people and settlements around


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## beijingwalker

Power of universal higher education! 93.5% PLA new recruits in Xinjiang Urumqi are college students


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## beijingwalker

A visit by a French reporter to Xinjiang Medical University, Xinjiang offers universal healthcare and this school is being called the cradle of Xinjiang doctors, thousands of medical students from India, Pakistan and central Asian countries study in many medical schools in Xinjiang.

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## chinasun



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## beijingwalker

Uyghur student in US tells how much Americans know Uyghur and Xinjiang​
Uyghur student in US tells how much Americans know Uyghur and Xinjiang. "I m a Uyghur, not Vegan". also in the video some photos of people from various ethnic groups in XInjiang are presented to fellow students in US asking them to guess the nationalities from these photos.

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## beijingwalker

Students in a Xinjiang school having their after class PE exercise​"Little Fatty" becomes an increasingly common phenomenon in Xinjiang, Education ministry now make PE, physical education a required course in all schools, sudents failing PE tests will be held back for another year. Students in a Xinjiang school having their after class PE exercise.






Students in a Xinjiang rural Pamir village school having their PE class​


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## beijingwalker

Visit a 109 years old Tajik centenarian in a rual village nursing home in Xinjang Pamir Plateau​
The government built nursing homes on Pamir mountains 4000 meters above the sea level for old people from poor families and old senior citizens without children, good environment, good food , 4 meals a day, and daily health care, all for free. for senior citizens over 90 years old, an one on one personal helper is provided to take care everything from combing hair to taking a bath. Now is deep winter time, but Pamir nursing homes green house yards make people feel like spring time


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## fisher1

aziqbal said:


> more fake videos from Chinese Youtube accounts ?
> 
> I reported 12 today
> 
> and they not credible source of information



Several of my posts were deleted in this thread by the administration here.

This thread is actually propaganda thread of CCP.

And they have such little wieners that just my posts criticizing CCP made the admins delete it and warn me hehe



帅的一匹 said:


> So what you expect? turn xingjiang into another Islamic state?



Stop sucking up to Islamic states then. China wouldn't exist without help of Islamic states

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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Stop sucking up to Islamic states then. China wouldn't exist without help of Islamic states


What..?


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang Uyghur athlete delivers final Olympic flame in Beijing opening ceremony​For a country that has been condemned for its treatment of the Uyghurs the symbolism was impossible to miss.






Olympic torch is brought into the stadium by Chinese athletes Dinigeer Yilamujiang, left, and Zhao Jiawen.Jae C. Hong / AP

Feb. 4, 2022, 11:04 PM CST / Updated Feb. 4, 2022, 11:09 PM CST
By Saphora Smith
The 2022 Winter Olympics kicked off Friday in unexpected fashion as one of the final torchbearers in the opening ceremony was revealed to be Uyghur cross-country skier Dinigeer Yilamujiang.

For a country that has been condemned for its treatment of the Uyghurs, a predominantly Muslim ethnic minority in the western Chinese region of Xinjiang, the symbolism was impossible to miss.

The lighting of the Olympic cauldron by the final torchbearer has long been a centerpiece of Olympic opening ceremonies and marks the beginning of the Games. It is considered a great honor to be the last athlete to carry the flame.

This year there was no cauldron per se, but a giant snowflake in the center of which Yilamujiang and another athlete, Zhao Jiawen, placed the flame.






Yilamujiang is the first Chinese cross-country skiing medalist at an International Ski Federation event, according to China’s official Xinhua news outlet. Born in Xinjiang to a father who was a cross-country skier, this is her first Olympics, according to her official Olympic bio which says she is 20 years old.









China chooses Uyghur torchbearer at Winter Olympics opening ceremony


For a country that has been condemned over its treatment of the Uyghurs, a mostly Muslim ethnic minority, the symbolism was impossible to miss.




www.nbcnews.com

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang Uyghur girl Dinigeer Yilamujiang lights the final Olympic torch, family cry tears of joy​
Xinjiang Uyghur girl Dinigeer Yilamujiang, a cross-country skier , was chosen to be the final torchbearer. Her whole family gathered together and were overwhelmed with joy and pride when they witnessed their proud daughter lighting the torch of the 2022 Beijing Olympic Games, her mother can't help crying tears of joy.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang ethnic Kazakh girl Adake Ahenaer, 22 years old, became a overnight Chinese social media sensation after competing with the oldest Olympic skater in the history, 49 years old German athlete Claudia Pechstein in Beijing 2022 Winter Olympic Games












Adake Ahenaer captured many Chinese skating fans hearts by her cuteness and super cool skating posture

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## aziqbal

Japan’s Lawmakers Call Out Human Rights Abuses in China​As the winter Olympics begin this week in Beijing, the Japanese parliament has added its voice to the global chorus of concern about human rights in China. 




Lawmakers stand up to show their support as Japan's parliament adopts resolution on human rights in China at the parliament in Tokyo Kyodo via Reuters

As the winter Olympics begin this week in Beijing, the Japanese parliament has added its voice to the global chorus of concern about human rights in China. The Resolution Regarding the Serious Human Rights Situation in Xinjiang Uighur and Other Areas passed almost unanimously on February 1. As expected, the Chinese Foreign Ministry reaction was swift, claiming Japan “has no authority whatsoever to make wanton remarks” about other countries’ human rights conditions.

Five political parties worked on the draft. The two parties that make up the ruling coalition, the Liberal Democratic Party and Komeito, were joined by the Constitutional Democratic Party of Japan, the Restoration Party and the Japan Communist Party. To gain this multiparty buy in, the _Asahi Shimbun_ reported that the resolution’s language was softened so that all five parties could support it. For example, instead of human rights “violations,” the resolution focused on the human rights “situation.” The tiny Reiwa Shinsengumi party refused to sign, apparently out of this deference to Chinese feelings. 

_Hayashi Yoshimasa addresses the House of Representatives after the passage of the human rights resolution, via Reuters_

More on:

Japan

China

The Diet resolution made no direct reference to the People’s Republic of China, and yet there was no mistaking whose behavior this resolution was referring to. It noted the rising international concern over the “infringement of freedom of religion and forced incarceration in places including Xinjiang Uighur, Tibet, Southern Mongolia, and Hong Kong.”

The intent was not only to call out China, however. The House of Representatives called on the Japanese government “which proclaims respecting human rights as a principle” to make a “constructive commitment” to human rights. The Resolution called for a “substantive and solid political document” to guide Japan’s human rights diplomacy.






This explicit elevation of human rights in Japan’s foreign policy agenda has been the project of some within the LDP, Gen Nakatani foremost among them, for some time. In November, when Prime Minister Kishida invited Nakatani, a former defense minister, to advise him on human rights, it became clear that Japan would be increasing its cooperation with others in the international community on addressing China’s human rights abuses.

The language of the resolution urged Japanese to consider the use of force by states internally as of equal import to the use of force abroad. “The House of Representatives of Japan regards changing the status quo through force, as seen with the serious human rights situation, as a threat to the international community, and strongly calls for accountability for this serious issue in a manner acceptable to the international community.” Moreover, these lawmakers also argued that Japan should prepared to act in support of “those people in need.”

On the eve of the Beijing Olympics, Japan’s alignment with other nations around the globe on China’s human rights abuses portends a difficult year for Sino-Japanese relations. 2022 is the 50th anniversary of the normalization of Japan’s relations with China, and in his early call with Foreign Minister Hayashi Yoshimasa in November of last year, Foreign Minister Wang Yi cautioned him to focus on the positive this year. In response to the resolution, Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson, Zhao Lijian, called the resolution “a severe political provocation against the Chinese people.” This is not likely to be an anniversary marked with popular celebration.









Japan’s Lawmakers Call Out Human Rights Abuses in China


As the winter Olympics begin this week in Beijing, the Japanese parliament has added its voice to the global chorus of concern about human rights in China.




www.cfr.org

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## beijingwalker

Street scene and traffic in Xinjiang Kashgar city now and in 1990's, change of 30 years​Street scene and traffic in Xinjiang Kashgar city now and in 1990's,, change of 30 years. cars replaced donkeys and animal pulled carts.


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## sha ah

How quickly they forget about their own atrocities against China in WW2, like the Nanjing massacre. Using chemical weapons against allied troops, killing prisoners of war after capture, Korean comfort women. Realistically today Japan produces more diapers for the elderly than for children. It's sad and this entire boycott attempt by the west is just pathetic. Nobody even went along with it, what a handful of nations didn't send diplomats to cheer on athletes ? but in the end I hear the US ended up asking for a few diplomatic visas anyways. So what was the point ?

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## Dalit

This is an old broken record now. Japan, India, NATO countries and the US are one block with the same mutual interests. That is an open secret by now. These countries think that they are the established order. Without their approval no other country can prosper and breathe. China and Russia are defying this logic and this bloc is seething with anger and frustration. How can the established order be challanged? Well, it is being challanged and the world is changing. It is just that the established order is having a tough time accepting the new reality.

Let me tell you what real human rights abuses look like. India massacring its minorities and the Western bloc remaining mum. The US torturing and murdering innocent people during illegal occupations. There is no one to question these genocides. Now they have ganged up against China and Russia and are preaching the rest of the world about Chinese human rights abuses. Luckily there is hardly any appetite for such hypocritical preaching.

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## Beast

Japan is so concern about human right abuse but why they ignore the human right abuse of their american and Australia partner?









No U.S. Troops Will Be Punished for Deadly Kabul Strike, Pentagon Chief Decides (Published 2021)


The military initially defended the strike, which killed 10 civilians including seven children, but ultimately called it a tragic mistake.




www.google.com













Australian 'war crimes': Elite troops killed Afghan civilians, report finds


A misconduct inquiry uncovers a "shameful record" of a "warrior culture" among some soldiers.



www.google.com





Can concern for human right be selective? Or this is just a smokescreen for these hypocrite to blame China? These Japanese are pathetic. After losing the crown of Asia champion to China. All they can do , is to stood so low and used such lowlife trick to undermined rising China. It no coincidence Japan is declining. A sunset country.

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## Ibr0kEmYrAz0r

aziqbal said:


> more fake videos from Chinese Youtube accounts ?
> 
> I reported 12 today
> 
> and they not credible source of information


Dude, the English-subtitled report on Xinjiang's Integration of traditional culture into modern society's clip was a documentary from Hong Kong's Phoenix Satellite Television. Try watch some programme before making groundless accusations.


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## Ibr0kEmYrAz0r

REhorror said:


> Twitter is banned in China anyway, I don't see the point.


Correction, Twitter is not “banned” as there are tens of millions of registered users in Mainland China through various means of accessing. 

However, Twitter has no presense right now in Mainland China after it was used as a communication tool by the islamic extremists/terrorists in 2009 *Ürümqi 7.5* terrorists attack in Xinjiang. 

Basically, it failed to live up to the competition through the years. Overall, microblog is a declining trend/social media tool in Mainland China for the past decade, even China's own "Weibo" has lost its edge. Tencent's microblog service was shutdown in Sept 2020 due to insufficient users, which leaves Baidu's weibo as the sole meaningful provider, for a mostly age 35+ group of people.


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## Suika

sha ah said:


> How quickly they forget about their own atrocities against China in WW2, like the Nanjing massacre. Using chemical weapons against allied troops, killing prisoners of war after capture, Korean comfort women. Realistically today Japan produces more diapers for the elderly than for children. It's sad and this entire boycott attempt by the west is just pathetic. Nobody even went along with it, what a handful of nations didn't send diplomats to cheer on athletes ? but in the end I hear the US ended up asking for a few diplomatic visas anyways. So what was the point ?



Well, an obvious counter point that can be made is that WW2 was war time. PRC dealings in Xinjiang on local population that don't want to "harmonize" to the CCP goal is peacetime. The persecution of Falun Gong to the point of zero is also peacetime. What are the examples of Japan doing those kinds of things to Japan's own population during peacetime? It is actions taken against their own population that is used as a discrediting function to mobilize political will towards the targeted country for new policy towards the target country. Granted there is something to say about hypocrisy. Falun Gong prosecution was in high gear when the US (both Democrat and Republican) approved China's ascension to the WTO at around the year 2000. If the same human rights principles were taken back in 2000, then the PRC could not have been allowed into the WTO. So it is fair to say that the use of those principles now is really to serve geopolitical contest then out of genuine human rights concerns by the US and other western higher ups. But still it leaves the point about what the PRC's tight control policy has resulted in with the human socio-cultural engineering going on in Xinjiang. It could still be said that back in 2000, the PRC was poor and if their interact more in business and cultural exchanges, then the PRC would loosen up control. So in effect of "let's give them a chance". Well the PRC blew their chance for that. Of course all said with US involvement in the ME. Although even if no involvement in the ME, there is still competition between Sunni and Shia to be had, so its not like the ME would be all butterflies and rainbows if there was no US.

Anyway that was one point..

Other points.. a quick one.. the comfort women is way blown out of proportion. While at the same time, K-pop popularizes sexuality and human trafficking happens in ROK today.. so *yawn* 

Nanjing is a sensitive point for good reason but there is a lot that should be said about that too instead of being flung out like a knee jerk reaction punchline. Since it is a lot of content, it is unfair to reproduce everything in a cool and sincere mind every time it gets used so clumsily. Consider the following: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-j...a-instead-of-the-british.609701/post-11331236 But to add to what is not in that link is that the mentioning of the Nanking massacre is in Japanese high school books in actuality. Unit 731 as well. Japanese self-reflection can and does happen but with the constant China and others need to recognize the full context of it and receive that reflection fairly instead politicizing it. If the PRC would stop using it as a politicized tool with gross exaggerations, I think both China and Japan could reach a merging in regional narrative history on this. China needs to start treating history like a respectable world power and not as if it was some poor weak country that uses history sympathy to give it a leg up to get out of economic poverty. That is related to the factors in causing the second Sino-Japanese war so for the full context of that, consider the following which are again to wordy to reproduce each time its reduced as a kneejerk reacting punchline:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-is-your-impression-of-china.638471/post-11818850
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-j...a-instead-of-the-british.609701/post-11328877


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## Beast

Suika said:


> Well, an obvious counter point that can be made is that WW2 was war time. PRC dealings in Xinjiang on local population that don't want to "harmonize" to the CCP goal is peacetime. The persecution of Falun Gong to the point of zero is also peacetime. What are the examples of Japan doing those kinds of things to Japan's own population during peacetime? It is actions taken against their own population that is used as a discrediting function to mobilize political will towards the targeted country for new policy towards the target country. Granted there is something to say about hypocrisy. Falun Gong prosecution was in high gear when the US (both Democrat and Republican) approved China's ascension to the WTO at around the year 2000. If the same human rights principles were taken back in 2000, then the PRC could not have been allowed into the WTO. So it is fair to say that the use of those principles now is really to serve geopolitical contest then out of genuine human rights concerns by the US and other western higher ups. But still it leaves the point about what the PRC's tight control policy has resulted in with the human socio-cultural engineering going on in Xinjiang. It could still be said that back in 2000, the PRC was poor and if their interact more in business and cultural exchanges, then the PRC would loosen up control. So in effect of "let's give them a chance". Well the PRC blew their chance for that. Of course all said with US involvement in the ME. Although even if no involvement in the ME, there is still competition between Sunni and Shia to be had, so its not like the ME would be all butterflies and rainbows if there was no US.
> 
> Anyway that was one point..
> 
> Other points.. a quick one.. the comfort women is way blown out of proportion. While at the same time, K-pop popularizes sexuality and human trafficking happens in ROK today.. so *yawn*
> 
> Nanjing is a sensitive point for good reason but there is a lot that should be said about that too instead of being flung out like a knee jerk reaction punchline. Since it is a lot of content, it is unfair to reproduce everything in a cool and sincere mind every time it gets used so clumsily. Consider the following: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-j...a-instead-of-the-british.609701/post-11331236 But to add to what is not in that link is that the mentioning of the Nanking massacre is in Japanese high school books in actuality. Unit 731 as well. Japanese self-reflection can and does happen but with the constant China and others need to recognize the full context of it and receive that reflection fairly instead politicizing it. If the PRC would stop using it as a politicized tool with gross exaggerations, I think both China and Japan could reach a merging in regional narrative history on this. China needs to start treating history like a respectable world power and not as if it was some poor weak country that uses history sympathy to give it a leg up to get out of economic poverty. That is related to the factors in causing the second Sino-Japanese war so for the full context of that, consider the following which are again to wordy to reproduce each time its reduced as a kneejerk reacting punchline:
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-is-your-impression-of-china.638471/post-11818850
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-j...a-instead-of-the-british.609701/post-11328877


Of cos, Japan do have their persecution against own citizen. Like persecute of aum shinrikyo if I used your analog. 

Typical misinfo tactics to misled readers. Falungong is a designated occult whose leader claim he is reincarnated of buddlha. What is wrong with China trying to tackle such occult? If u claim China tackle of Fanlungong is against human right. That makes Japan outlaw aum shinrikyo no different.

Abuse of Xinjiang and unighur I do not wish to talk further. I guess there are already plenty of post that exposed the smearing of China against unighur like 1 million uighur lock up or the cartoonish cosplay by CNN finding a fake Chinese actor faking as ex Xinjiang police.

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## Leishangthem

China has stuck with 80s atrocity propaganda against Japan to instil nationalism before& after Tiananmen incident,China has lost the ability to maneuver away from it after creating a generation of anti japan hyper nationalist that exerts great political pressure to be tough on Japan,otherwise Japan would have been alone on the wrong side of using crime against hunanity for geopolitics,only for that reason Japanese adopting human rights play against China makes it akin to two parties hurling shit on each other.


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## Suika

Beast said:


> Of cos, Japan do have their persecution against own citizen. Like persecute of aum shinrikyo if I used your analog.
> 
> Typical misinfo tactics to misled readers. Falungong is a designated occult whose leader claim he is reincarnated of buddlha. What is wrong with China trying to tackle such occult? If u claim China tackle of Fanlungong is against human right. That makes Japan outlaw aum shinrikyo no different.
> 
> Abuse of Xinjiang and unighur I do not wish to talk further. I guess there are already plenty of post that exposed the smearing of China against unighur like 1 million uighur lock up or the cartoonish cosplay by CNN finding a fake Chinese actor faking as ex Xinjiang police.


Aum Shinrikyo did a gas attack in the Tokyo subway. What violence did Falun Gong do? Petty things like "being cult-like" is in the same level as typical corruption for or against Xi or corruption anywhere else. Although since the CCP has heavy control on people's life choices, the freedom of religion is suppressed. So Falun Gong emerged to fill in the void of the desire for spiritual well being that naturally occurs in humans. With Falun Gong 100% eliminated, then an under ground Christainity started to spread in China and churches with crosses started to show it, But then the CCP orders the take down of church crosses, makes services CCP-approved content and stamps down on private house church doing.

That is entirely different in comparison to Aum Shinrikyo and you know.


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## beijingwalker

The placard bearer for team China in the opening ceremony of 2022 Beijing Olympic Games
A Xinjiang Kuqa girl


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## beijingwalker

Just a bunch of Japanese anti China politicians who had never set their feet in Xinjiang even once, but to the Japanese who really visited Xinjiang, Xinjiang's peace, prosperity and cultural diversity make the place their favorite in China.

My Favorite Place in China !​Why Xinjiang is so special for me


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## Beast

Suika said:


> Aum Shinrikyo did a gas attack in the Tokyo subway. What violence did Falun Gong do? Petty things like "being cult-like" is in the same level as typical corruption for or against Xi or corruption anywhere else. Although since the CCP has heavy control on people's life choices, the freedom of religion is suppressed. So Falun Gong emerged to fill in the void of the desire for spiritual well being that naturally occurs in humans. With Falun Gong 100% eliminated, then an under ground Christainity started to spread in China and churches with crosses started to show it, But then the CCP orders the take down of church crosses, makes services CCP-approved content and stamps down on private house church doing.
> 
> That is entirely different in comparison to Aum Shinrikyo and you know.


LOL.. Calling himself buddlha reincarnation and scam members to donate money to him is not a crime? You need to get your head check. 









The ABC is right: Falun Gong has some dangerous teachings - ABC Religion & Ethics


The ABC’s recent coverage of Falun Gong has been important to the growing ex-Falun Gong community, of which I’m proud to be part. The ABC is telling an important story that has been neglected or overlooked for too long; its television reports, podcasts, and online articles were well-researched...




www.abc.net.au





*"Falun Gong practitioners believe Li Hongzhi is a god — they hang on every word he speaks and he carries an enormous amount of influence over what believers say and do."*


----------



## Suika

Beast said:


> LOL.. Calling himself buddlha reincarnation and scam members to donate money to him is not a crime? You need to get your head check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ABC is right: Falun Gong has some dangerous teachings - ABC Religion & Ethics
> 
> 
> The ABC’s recent coverage of Falun Gong has been important to the growing ex-Falun Gong community, of which I’m proud to be part. The ABC is telling an important story that has been neglected or overlooked for too long; its television reports, podcasts, and online articles were well-researched...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.abc.net.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Falun Gong practitioners believe Li Hongzhi is a god — they hang on every word he speaks and he carries an enormous amount of influence over what believers say and do."*



If Falun Gong was like that in the late 1990s in China but was still able to gather 100 million Chinese practioners, then that doesn't speak well of Chinese people in general to believe in something so absurd and requiring government iron fist intervention to save them from stupid belief? But I rather doubt Falun Gong could be characterize as such back then as well. And no example of violence.


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## Cryptic_Mafia

aziqbal said:


> Japan’s Lawmakers Call Out Human Rights Abuses in China​As the winter Olympics begin this week in Beijing, the Japanese parliament has added its voice to the global chorus of concern about human rights in China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lawmakers stand up to show their support as Japan's parliament adopts resolution on human rights in China at the parliament in Tokyo Kyodo via Reuters
> 
> As the winter Olympics begin this week in Beijing, the Japanese parliament has added its voice to the global chorus of concern about human rights in China. The Resolution Regarding the Serious Human Rights Situation in Xinjiang Uighur and Other Areas passed almost unanimously on February 1. As expected, the Chinese Foreign Ministry reaction was swift, claiming Japan “has no authority whatsoever to make wanton remarks” about other countries’ human rights conditions.
> 
> Five political parties worked on the draft. The two parties that make up the ruling coalition, the Liberal Democratic Party and Komeito, were joined by the Constitutional Democratic Party of Japan, the Restoration Party and the Japan Communist Party. To gain this multiparty buy in, the _Asahi Shimbun_ reported that the resolution’s language was softened so that all five parties could support it. For example, instead of human rights “violations,” the resolution focused on the human rights “situation.” The tiny Reiwa Shinsengumi party refused to sign, apparently out of this deference to Chinese feelings.
> 
> _Hayashi Yoshimasa addresses the House of Representatives after the passage of the human rights resolution, via Reuters_
> 
> More on:
> 
> Japan
> 
> China
> 
> The Diet resolution made no direct reference to the People’s Republic of China, and yet there was no mistaking whose behavior this resolution was referring to. It noted the rising international concern over the “infringement of freedom of religion and forced incarceration in places including Xinjiang Uighur, Tibet, Southern Mongolia, and Hong Kong.”
> 
> The intent was not only to call out China, however. The House of Representatives called on the Japanese government “which proclaims respecting human rights as a principle” to make a “constructive commitment” to human rights. The Resolution called for a “substantive and solid political document” to guide Japan’s human rights diplomacy.
> 
> View attachment 813574​
> 
> 
> This explicit elevation of human rights in Japan’s foreign policy agenda has been the project of some within the LDP, Gen Nakatani foremost among them, for some time. In November, when Prime Minister Kishida invited Nakatani, a former defense minister, to advise him on human rights, it became clear that Japan would be increasing its cooperation with others in the international community on addressing China’s human rights abuses.
> 
> The language of the resolution urged Japanese to consider the use of force by states internally as of equal import to the use of force abroad. “The House of Representatives of Japan regards changing the status quo through force, as seen with the serious human rights situation, as a threat to the international community, and strongly calls for accountability for this serious issue in a manner acceptable to the international community.” Moreover, these lawmakers also argued that Japan should prepared to act in support of “those people in need.”
> 
> On the eve of the Beijing Olympics, Japan’s alignment with other nations around the globe on China’s human rights abuses portends a difficult year for Sino-Japanese relations. 2022 is the 50th anniversary of the normalization of Japan’s relations with China, and in his early call with Foreign Minister Hayashi Yoshimasa in November of last year, Foreign Minister Wang Yi cautioned him to focus on the positive this year. In response to the resolution, Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson, Zhao Lijian, called the resolution “a severe political provocation against the Chinese people.” This is not likely to be an anniversary marked with popular celebration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japan’s Lawmakers Call Out Human Rights Abuses in China
> 
> 
> As the winter Olympics begin this week in Beijing, the Japanese parliament has added its voice to the global chorus of concern about human rights in China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cfr.org


did they call out human right abuses by USAF in Afghanistan where they killed the whole family women and children because they thought their was a "terrorist" living in the house?

or in syria where they dropped bombed to kill ISIS commander and murdered women and kids?

or in Israel where zionist pigs murder everyday?

or in kashmir where Hindu forces are killing Muslims?

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## Beast

Cryptic_Mafia said:


> did they call out human right abuses by USAF in Afghanistan where they killed the whole family women and children because they thought their was a "terrorist" living in the house?
> 
> or in syria where they dropped bombed to kill ISIS commander and murdered women and kids?
> 
> or in Israel where zionist pigs murder everyday?
> 
> or in kashmir where Hindu forces are killing Muslims?


They will be selective in their so called righteous. Fighting justice for others is not their aim but using it as excuse to attack their foe, is.

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## Song Hong

The butcher of Nanjing is now weaponizing human rights abuses against China.

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## Cryptic_Mafia

Beast said:


> They will be selective in their so called righteous. Fighting justice for others is not their aim but using it as excuse to attack their foe, is.


West keeps moving the goal post

from pussy protection in Afghanistan 
to human rights in China

its seems the so called "War on terror" is dead and now its pussy protection and human rights to sell Weapons!

people like OP (whiteBots) they dont see the double standards!

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## Abu Dhabi

this happened too when a bunch of European nations became loud a few weeks before EXPO2020 in Dubai. fast forward , i visited all their (functioning and running) pavilions 

March on China , ignore and march on

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## mhosein

aziqbal said:


> Japan’s Lawmakers Call Out Human Rights Abuses in China​As the winter Olympics begin this week in Beijing, the Japanese parliament has added its voice to the global chorus of concern about human rights in China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lawmakers stand up to show their support as Japan's parliament adopts resolution on human rights in China at the parliament in Tokyo Kyodo via Reuters
> 
> As the winter Olympics begin this week in Beijing, the Japanese parliament has added its voice to the global chorus of concern about human rights in China. The Resolution Regarding the Serious Human Rights Situation in Xinjiang Uighur and Other Areas passed almost unanimously on February 1. As expected, the Chinese Foreign Ministry reaction was swift, claiming Japan “has no authority whatsoever to make wanton remarks” about other countries’ human rights conditions.
> 
> Five political parties worked on the draft. The two parties that make up the ruling coalition, the Liberal Democratic Party and Komeito, were joined by the Constitutional Democratic Party of Japan, the Restoration Party and the Japan Communist Party. To gain this multiparty buy in, the _Asahi Shimbun_ reported that the resolution’s language was softened so that all five parties could support it. For example, instead of human rights “violations,” the resolution focused on the human rights “situation.” The tiny Reiwa Shinsengumi party refused to sign, apparently out of this deference to Chinese feelings.
> 
> _Hayashi Yoshimasa addresses the House of Representatives after the passage of the human rights resolution, via Reuters_
> 
> More on:
> 
> Japan
> 
> China
> 
> The Diet resolution made no direct reference to the People’s Republic of China, and yet there was no mistaking whose behavior this resolution was referring to. It noted the rising international concern over the “infringement of freedom of religion and forced incarceration in places including Xinjiang Uighur, Tibet, Southern Mongolia, and Hong Kong.”
> 
> The intent was not only to call out China, however. The House of Representatives called on the Japanese government “which proclaims respecting human rights as a principle” to make a “constructive commitment” to human rights. The Resolution called for a “substantive and solid political document” to guide Japan’s human rights diplomacy.
> 
> View attachment 813574​
> 
> 
> This explicit elevation of human rights in Japan’s foreign policy agenda has been the project of some within the LDP, Gen Nakatani foremost among them, for some time. In November, when Prime Minister Kishida invited Nakatani, a former defense minister, to advise him on human rights, it became clear that Japan would be increasing its cooperation with others in the international community on addressing China’s human rights abuses.
> 
> The language of the resolution urged Japanese to consider the use of force by states internally as of equal import to the use of force abroad. “The House of Representatives of Japan regards changing the status quo through force, as seen with the serious human rights situation, as a threat to the international community, and strongly calls for accountability for this serious issue in a manner acceptable to the international community.” Moreover, these lawmakers also argued that Japan should prepared to act in support of “those people in need.”
> 
> On the eve of the Beijing Olympics, Japan’s alignment with other nations around the globe on China’s human rights abuses portends a difficult year for Sino-Japanese relations. 2022 is the 50th anniversary of the normalization of Japan’s relations with China, and in his early call with Foreign Minister Hayashi Yoshimasa in November of last year, Foreign Minister Wang Yi cautioned him to focus on the positive this year. In response to the resolution, Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson, Zhao Lijian, called the resolution “a severe political provocation against the Chinese people.” This is not likely to be an anniversary marked with popular celebration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japan’s Lawmakers Call Out Human Rights Abuses in China
> 
> 
> As the winter Olympics begin this week in Beijing, the Japanese parliament has added its voice to the global chorus of concern about human rights in China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cfr.org



Japan is no one to dictate or point fingers at others. No one has forgotten what the Japanese did during and at the start of the second world war, in China. Today Japan is just a vassal state of Western Imperialism.

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## sha ah

First of all, what happens in a country during peacetime, is a domestic issue for that country to resolve. The US has several human rights issues, racial tensions between ethnic groups, police discrimination against minorities, the largest prison population in the world with the majority being minorities, many referring to it as modern day extension of slavery. 10% of the population don't even have healthcare, the only industrialized nation without universal healthcare. We could go on and on but they're all domestic issues right ? 

Japan is an island nation with a homogeneous population with 125 million people, over 95% Japanese ethnically. China has over 1.4 billion, is connection to the Eurasian continent, has countless smaller ethnic groups. Many small unknown ethnic groups in China have populations as large as 30-40 million or more, which could easily constitute an entire nation. With so much diversity, with such a large population, it's extremely difficult to keep the peace and of course its inevitable that some controversy and tensions will break out here and there. 

However at the end of the day, all Chinese people enjoy healthcare, free education, cheap food, cheap health care, a decent standard of living which has been gradually increasing over the decades. In the US, you walk around downtown in most large cities and its not safe at night. There are as many guns as there are people and shootings, robberies, gun violence is extremely common compared to other industrialized nations. On the other hand in China, you can walk around any large city at night at any time and feel safe. That safety comes at a price, everything works like that. Just like Duterte cleaned up the Phillipines and now women can walk around with baby carriages at night and feel safe. But there is a price for that, and it's controversial. 


Quickly watch this video, It's relevant to this issue and you will probably enjoy it. 









Suika said:


> Well, an obvious counter point that can be made is that WW2 was war time. PRC dealings in Xinjiang on local population that don't want to "harmonize" to the CCP goal is peacetime. The persecution of Falun Gong to the point of zero is also peacetime. What are the examples of Japan doing those kinds of things to Japan's own population during peacetime? It is actions taken against their own population that is used as a discrediting function to mobilize political will towards the targeted country for new policy towards the target country. Granted there is something to say about hypocrisy. Falun Gong prosecution was in high gear when the US (both Democrat and Republican) approved China's ascension to the WTO at around the year 2000. If the same human rights principles were taken back in 2000, then the PRC could not have been allowed into the WTO. So it is fair to say that the use of those principles now is really to serve geopolitical contest then out of genuine human rights concerns by the US and other western higher ups. But still it leaves the point about what the PRC's tight control policy has resulted in with the human socio-cultural engineering going on in Xinjiang. It could still be said that back in 2000, the PRC was poor and if their interact more in business and cultural exchanges, then the PRC would loosen up control. So in effect of "let's give them a chance". Well the PRC blew their chance for that. Of course all said with US involvement in the ME. Although even if no involvement in the ME, there is still competition between Sunni and Shia to be had, so its not like the ME would be all butterflies and rainbows if there was no US.
> 
> Anyway that was one point..
> 
> Other points.. a quick one.. the comfort women is way blown out of proportion. While at the same time, K-pop popularizes sexuality and human trafficking happens in ROK today.. so *yawn*
> 
> Nanjing is a sensitive point for good reason but there is a lot that should be said about that too instead of being flung out like a knee jerk reaction punchline. Since it is a lot of content, it is unfair to reproduce everything in a cool and sincere mind every time it gets used so clumsily. Consider the following: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-j...a-instead-of-the-british.609701/post-11331236 But to add to what is not in that link is that the mentioning of the Nanking massacre is in Japanese high school books in actuality. Unit 731 as well. Japanese self-reflection can and does happen but with the constant China and others need to recognize the full context of it and receive that reflection fairly instead politicizing it. If the PRC would stop using it as a politicized tool with gross exaggerations, I think both China and Japan could reach a merging in regional narrative history on this. China needs to start treating history like a respectable world power and not as if it was some poor weak country that uses history sympathy to give it a leg up to get out of economic poverty. That is related to the factors in causing the second Sino-Japanese war so for the full context of that, consider the following which are again to wordy to reproduce each time its reduced as a kneejerk reacting punchline:
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-is-your-impression-of-china.638471/post-11818850
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-j...a-instead-of-the-british.609701/post-11328877

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494108385658413056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493948283516973059


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## fisher1

The wumao bots in this thread are so insecure, they keep deleting my posts among the sea of CCP propaganda


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## beijingwalker

Once life forbidden Southern Xinjiang desert becomes the "vegetable basket" for Xinjiang and China with the help of modern farming and technology.


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## beijingwalker

How students in China's Xinjiang learn skiing in PE class​


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## fisher1

Propaganda for free, eat it


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Propaganda for free, eat it


Which one is not true, please point it out.


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Which one is not true, please point it out.



The one where Uighur Muslims aren't shown in concentration camps


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> The one where Uighur Muslims aren't shown in concentration camps


Lol, ok, Xinjiang should be empty cause all Muslims are in camps, nice logic. Do you really believe it yourself or you are just trolling?


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang should be empty cause all Muslims are in camps



So you deny the existence of such camps?


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> So you deny the existence of such camps?


We know we have 学习班, study or training sessions. They've existed from the day one of PRC in every city, town, village. but western media may call them camps, cause they believe whole China is a camp, and they made up numbers out of thin air. and fools and dimwits buy them.


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## silverox

Xinjiang deradicalization policy must be strictly enforced
Pakistan's Ziyahak era completely reversed the country's founding fathers' path of governance
The ideal state that Jinnah himself envisioned was a modern Muslim state, not an Islamic state
I recently perused Jinnah's biography
He's definitely a secularist
I suspect Ziyahak was assassinated by his own men in the Pakistani military
Pakistani military can't stand his personal emotions to turn the country's path either
You know, the Pakistani military and the United States have always had close ties
America can't stand Ziyahak


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## beijingwalker

2022 Beijing Winter Olympic Games, a Chinese skater captures Kazakhstan's heart


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## beijingwalker

Adake Ahenaer

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## beijingwalker

Came across this documentary which really shocks me, it's only kilometers away from the Chinese Xinjiang border, no electricity, no running water, no schools , no doctors and hospitals, over one third of women die from child birth and over half of the children can not make it to 5 years old...

People are addicted to opium because it is the only medicine available when they are sick.

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## beijingwalker

Came across this documentary which really shocks me, it's only kilometers away from the Chinese Xinjiang border, no electricity, no running water, no schools , no doctors and hospitals, over one third of women die from child birth and over half of the children can not make it to 5 years old...

People are addicted to opium because it is the only medicine available when they are sick.






Several kilometers to the east, in Chinese part of Pamir region, the same Kyrgyzs people live in free government built earthquake resistant, well heated houses hooked up with all modern facilites and equipments, children enjoy 15 years free eductation, free food and accommodation, full free healthcare, almost every younster goes to college and gets a degree.






Police cars escort school buses bringing the ethnic Kyrgyzs students back to their parents from schools in Pamir Plateau in Xinjiang.

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## fisher1

silverox said:


> Xinjiang deradicalization policy must be strictly enforced
> Pakistan's Ziyahak era completely reversed the country's founding fathers' path of governance
> The ideal state that Jinnah himself envisioned was a modern Muslim state, not an Islamic state
> I recently perused Jinnah's biography
> He's definitely a secularist
> I suspect Ziyahak was assassinated by his own men in the Pakistani military
> Pakistani military can't stand his personal emotions to turn the country's path either
> You know, the Pakistani military and the United States have always had close ties
> America can't stand Ziyahak



LOL, if you are going to talk about a country's history, at least get it right.

And spell his name right


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> LOL, if you are going to talk about a country's history, at least get it right.
> 
> And spell his name right


You repeatedly claim that Afghanistan and Kashmir are like the heaven comparing to Xinjiang for the Uyghurs, check out what the people in your "heaven" do these days. This is the country just kilometers away from Xinjiang.
Xinjiiang'a GDP per capita was at threashhold of becoming an advanced region by IMF last year.


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## beijingwalker

After 20 years of continuous hard work by the government, now several million people living in southern Xinjiang desert regions and Xinjiang Pamir plateau have access to clean natural gas. local residents recalled that in the past, they had to go deep in the desert to find some desert buckthorn plants , in Pamir region cow dungs to make a fire to cook, cooking a meal was quite a everyday challenge, in frigid winter, they also had to struggle to find ways to heat their homes.
After the government connected every house with natural gas, the standard of living had been massively improved, cooking, heating all become a job of a mere button push, locals not long have to raid already very rare plants in the desert and eco system had also been restored.

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## beijingwalker

How clean running water is guaranteed to every household in southern Xinjiang desert regions​


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## beijingwalker

China's largest single ethane recovery project puts into operation in Xinjiang​

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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502276745839345664


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## Daniel808

*Kashgar Old Town, Xinjiang*








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500600611494141954

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## beijingwalker

Police all out to escout school buses for the new school term in Xinjiang Pamir plateau Tajik county​
New term starts in Xinjiang Pamir Tashkurgan Tajik county, police are all out to escort school buses from different villages to the schools, people may mistake it for welcoming foreign dinitaries.


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## beijingwalker

New term starts in Xinjiang Pamir Tajik county, village school welcomes the students back to school​New term starts in Xinjiang Pamir Plateau Tashkurgan Tajik county, village primary school welcomes the students back to school

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang has signed 38 projects with 11 central government stated owned enterprises worth $97 billion USD​March. 12 2022

The symposium between Xinjiang and central enterprises on industrial revitalization of Xinjiang was held in Beijing on March 12. The SASAC of the State Council and 23 central enterprises attended the meeting. 

At the meeting, Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region signed 38 major cooperation projects with 11 central enterprises, with a total investment of about 611.706 billion yuan ($97 billion USD)

It is reported that the 11 central enterprises plan to invest 108.62 billion yuan in 2022, mainly in the fields of petrochemical industry, coal power and coal chemical industry, clean energy, equipment manufacturing, infrastructure construction and so on. 

The signing central enterprises said that in the future, they will further strengthen the research on key core technologies, increase investment, continuously deepen cooperation based on Xinjiang's unique resources, promote the implementation of achievements, cultivate and expand characteristic pillar industries, and form a new model of industrial revitalization with win-win cooperation.






Xinjiang has signed 38 projects with 11 central enterprises, with a total investment of more than 600 billion yuan


The symposium between Xinjiang and central enterprises on industrial revitalization of Xinjiang was held in Beijing on March 12. The SASAC of the State Council and 23 central enterprises attended the meeting. At the meeting, Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region signed 38 major cooperation projects...



equalocean.com


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> You repeatedly claim that Afghanistan and Kashmir are like the heaven comparing to Xinjiang for the Uyghurs, check out what the people in your "heaven" do these days. This is the country just kilometers away from Xinjiang.
> Xinjiiang'a GDP per capita was at threashhold of becoming an advanced region by IMF last year.



Show the world what's happening to Uighurs in those concentration camps.


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Show the world what's happening to Uighurs in those concentration camps.


Yes, sir

Little Tajik culture village built by Shanghai in Xinjiang​Little Tajik culture village built by Shanghai in Xinjiang, featuring to preserve Tajik culture and promote local tourism. Local Tajiks moved in from their previous earth house.


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Yes, sir
> 
> Little Tajik culture village built by Shanghai in Xinjiang​Little Tajik culture village built by Shanghai in Xinjiang, featuring to preserve Tajik culture and promote local tourism. Local Tajiks moved in from their previous earth house.



Not propaganda. 

Nobody likes eating this propaganda except braindead zombies


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Not propaganda.
> 
> Nobody likes eating this propaganda except braindead zombies


Propaganda? check out this foreign documentary about Xinjiang, it's not made by China, and see how local cultures are beautifully preserved and how life of the locals had been massively improved.


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## silverox

The root cause of the Uyghur rebellion is Uyghur racial discrimination against Chinese culture. I have read many articles by Uyghur intellectuals who have profound malice and racial discrimination against Chinese people and Chinese culture. The most typical example is Ilham I, a professor at Minzu University of China who was sentenced to life imprisonment.In the Uyghur Forum he established, there are many Uyghurs (most of them were raised with Chinese education, called Min Kao Han 民考汉 in China) unabashedly said that if the Japanese killed all the Chinese during World War II, Then the Uyghurs can be neighbors with Japan, a developed country.
During the growth of these uyghur intellectuals, China itself had serious self-doubt. The Chinese found that Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, and Taiwan were all developed and rich, while China was very poor. Therefore, in the 1980s, the most popular book in China was Ugly Chinese, this book stigmatizes Chinese civilization and even its race as inferior.
China's ruling party itself has fallen into serious self-doubt and abandoned the ideology of the Communist Party, and even now, as a member of the Communist Party myself, I don't believe in communism. For the Chinese, communism was one of the various ideological trend in the 1920s that want to saved the country, but at best it won. This has allowed the grassroots regimes in Muslim-populated areas of Xinjiang and other provinces to be almost infiltrated and controlled by extreme Islamists. Especially in Ningxia, Gansu, these two provinces, the Islamic extremism of the Hui people is stronger than that of the Uyghurs in Xinjiang, but these people have not dared to challenge Beijing directly.
Especially the Kazakhs, it is even more hateful. Most of these Kazakhs fled from the Soviet Union to Xinjiang, China to escape the Kazakh famine in the Soviet Union. After they entered the country illegally, they tried to occupy Chinese territory. Even now, some Kazakhs want to split with the Uyghurs. Xinjiang. Their fantasy is to add northern Xinjiang to Kazakhstan.
I personally think that China's method of reclaiming Xinjiang in 1949 went wrong, when it directly incorporated Uyghur Kazakh separatists armed by the Soviet Union into PLA .
Nothing you get through peace is secure, because you don't create a precedent, you don't have power and authority。
Hong Kong is one example, and the Uyghur insurgency is another.
Ukrainian politicians have learned not to respect Russia's strategic interests without blood and fire. The biggest mistake in China is that the traditional Confucian spirit of the Chinese people is too much respect for life and tolerance for heresy. If China could eliminate more than 100,000 rebels at that time, Xinjiang would be much more peaceful now.Uyghurs will also learn to appreciate and respect Chinese civilization, instead of boasting that Uyghurs have more contact with higher and better Persian, Russian and British civilizations than China.

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## Char

silverox said:


> The root cause of the Uyghur rebellion is Uyghur racial discrimination against Chinese culture. I have read many articles by Uyghur intellectuals who have profound malice and racial discrimination against Chinese people and Chinese culture. The most typical example is Ilham I, a professor at Minzu University of China who was sentenced to life imprisonment.In the Uyghur Forum he established, there are many Uyghurs (most of them were raised with Chinese education, called Min Kao Han 民考汉 in China) unabashedly said that if the Japanese killed all the Chinese during World War II, Then the Uyghurs can be neighbors with Japan, a developed country.
> During the growth of these uyghur intellectuals, China itself had serious self-doubt. The Chinese found that Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, and Taiwan were all developed and rich, while China was very poor. Therefore, in the 1980s, the most popular book in China was Ugly Chinese, this book stigmatizes Chinese civilization and even its race as inferior.
> China's ruling party itself has fallen into serious self-doubt and abandoned the ideology of the Communist Party, and even now, as a member of the Communist Party myself, I don't believe in communism. For the Chinese, communism was one of the various ideological trend in the 1920s that want to saved the country, but at best it won. This has allowed the grassroots regimes in Muslim-populated areas of Xinjiang and other provinces to be almost infiltrated and controlled by extreme Islamists. Especially in Ningxia, Gansu, these two provinces, the Islamic extremism of the Hui people is stronger than that of the Uyghurs in Xinjiang, but these people have not dared to challenge Beijing directly.
> Especially the Kazakhs, it is even more hateful. Most of these Kazakhs fled from the Soviet Union to Xinjiang, China to escape the Kazakh famine in the Soviet Union. After they entered the country illegally, they tried to occupy Chinese territory. Even now, some Kazakhs want to split with the Uyghurs. Xinjiang. Their fantasy is to add northern Xinjiang to Kazakhstan.
> I personally think that China's method of reclaiming Xinjiang in 1949 went wrong, when it directly incorporated Uyghur Kazakh separatists armed by the Soviet Union into PLA .
> Nothing you get through peace is secure, because you don't create a precedent, you don't have power and authority。
> Hong Kong is one example, and the Uyghur insurgency is another.
> Ukrainian politicians have learned not to respect Russia's strategic interests without blood and fire. The biggest mistake in China is that the traditional Confucian spirit of the Chinese people is too much respect for life and tolerance for heresy. If China could eliminate more than 100,000 rebels at that time, Xinjiang would be much more peaceful now.Uyghurs will also learn to appreciate and respect Chinese civilization, instead of boasting that Uyghurs have more contact with higher and better Persian, Russian and British civilizations than China.



China really didn't kill enough separatists, extremists, terrorists.

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## beijingwalker

Kazakh teenager herder girl complains that her horses sometimes don't let her ride, so she wants to buy a car, she saved 100,000 yuan ( $15,900USD) and plans to buy a 200,000 yuan car ( $31,800USD) for herself, ( she doesn't like her father's pickup truck), can you suggest a car in this price range? She asks for suggestions and leaving messages in comment section of her youtube channel.

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## Daniel808

Civilizations on the way to Southern Xinjiang  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504794747688341511

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## beijingwalker

Feeling secure, China goes into development mode in Xinjiang​
Work has started on a US$275 billion infrastructure programme as the region’s focus shifts from stability
There are also subtle signs on the ground that change is on the way
*Published: 6:00pm, 20 Mar, 2022*





The starting orders came on Thursday from Urumqi, the capital of China’s far western region of Xinjiang*.

At that moment, legions of bulldozers, concrete mixers and excavators were powered up at work sites across more than a dozen cities.

It marked the beginning of a plan to spend 1.75 trillion yuan (US$275 billion) in the region, 900 million yuan of it this year, the official Xinjiang Daily reported on Friday.*

*In all, work got under way or resumed on 4,467 projects in the region – 27 with a total investment of more than 5 billion yuan and 103 projects with a total investment of 1 billion yuan to 5 billion yuan, the report said.

The launch of the major infrastructure projects appears to be another sign that Beijing is confident of its grip on society and its Xinjiang policy is tilting back to economic development, an observer says.*

The infrastructure drive in Xinjiang is part of Beijing’s broader efforts to stimulate the economy amid weakening external and internal demand and disruptions from Covid-19 outbreaks.

Some Chinese media outlets estimate that provincial governments across the country launched a total of 3 trillion yuan in infrastructure projects in January alone.

In Xinjiang, an area as vast as Iran, the investment comes after a steady, quiet shift in policy since September 2020.

While China has not softened its tone in response to international criticism and Western sanctions over alleged human rights abuses in the region, it no longer focuses solely on draconic social control.

This has been apparent in comments from state leaders, particularly from Wang Yang, chairman of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference.

Several times throughout last year, Wang, the Communist Party’s fourth-ranking official and top Xinjiang policy coordinator, spoke about the need to put in more effort into the region’s development.

That shift was underpinned with the appointment on December 25 of the region’s new Communist Party chief Ma Xingrui.

Ma, a prominent technocrat with a track record of development in China’s economic powerhouse of Guangdong, took over from Chen Quanguo, the chief architect of Xinjiang’s social control measures.

Beijing did not announce the next step for Chen but he continues to appear at meetings of the party’s inner circle, the Politburo.

Beijing has also made one major gesture to its international critics – agreeing to a trip to Xinjiang in May by United Nations human rights chief Michelle Bachelet.

There are other signs of easing on the ground.

Urumqi resident Chen Xue said she had noticed the removal of some barricades in the city’s main shopping district.
“Some concrete blocks and metal guardrails in Urumqi’s major shopping streets have already gone,” Chen said.
“I remember they were installed after the attacks in 2014 and people had to walk farther to get to our shop.”

Some previously cancelled performances have also resumed in past months.
Chen said she had just been to a show about the Silk Road at the Xinjiang International Grand Bazaar that had been closed for several years as security was tightened.

A Xinjiang civil servant, who declined to be named, said he and his colleagues were also allowed to take time off on the weekend.
“Previously, we were asked to be on alert 24-7. We’ve basically had no days off in the past few years,” he said.
“Life is gradually returning to the old days before the major terror attack – I think and I hope.”

Xie Maosong, a senior researcher with Tsinghua University’s National Strategy Institute, said the resumption of massive infrastructure projects and some relaxation of social control was only possible because Beijing was confident that it had security under firm control.

“China’s belief is that security is a prerequisite of development. It is only with the security foundation laid by Chen Quanguo that Ma Xingrui can start mega development,” Xie said.

He said Beijing’s investment in Xinjiang showed Xinjiang’s strategic value for China not only in terms of natural resources but also as a major gateway connecting Central Asia and Eastern Europe.

He said this investment was going ahead despite the uncertainty raised in Central Asia and Eastern Europe by the war in Ukraine – a sign of Beijing’s longer-term confidence in the region.









Feeling secure, China goes into development mode in Xinjiang


Work has started on a US$275 billion infrastructure programme as the region’s focus shifts from stability.




www.scmp.com




​

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## beijingwalker

* US$275 billion infrastructure programme *

This is crazy..., Xinjiang will be drowned with money


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## etylo

fisher1 said:


> Show the world what's happening to Uighurs in those concentration camps.


Yeah, you Western brain washed fanatic should concern more about your own affairs. You, with a similar religious belief as many of Uighurs that made up of about 40% of the total population in Xinjiang doesn't give you the right to interfere and poke your nose at affairs every chance you got in that part of Chinese territory. You should be more concerned about the terrorists attacks here. Have enough of you people constantly harassing Chinese and Chinese affairs !


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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505449073931067400

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## fisher1

etylo said:


> Yeah, you Western brain washed fanatic should concern more about your own affairs. You, with a similar religious belief as many of Uighurs that made up of about 40% of the total population in Xinjiang doesn't give you the right to interfere and poking your nose at affairs every chance you got in that part of Chinese territory. You should be more concerned about the terrorists attacks here. Have enough of you people constantly harassing Chinese and Chinese affairs !



LOL western propaganda.

Stop being a broken record


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> LOL western propaganda.
> 
> Stop being a broken record


USD*$275 billion* infrastructure programme for Xinjiang
Propaganda?


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> USD*$275 billion* infrastructure programme for Xinjiang
> Propaganda?



Nobody believes your propaganda. Just give up already


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## beijingwalker

fisher1 said:


> Nobody believes your propaganda. Just give up already


Who is nobody? You only make a very poor fellow in Xinjiang.


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## fisher1

beijingwalker said:


> Who is nobody? You only make a very poor fellow in Xinjiang.



Oh I am sure I will be ripped to pieces by angry chinese voices in concentration camps just like happens to poor uighurs


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## Nan Yang

What a sight.


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang rural grassroots government female cadres celebrate the international women's day​


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## beijingwalker

Xi Jingping inquires the representatives from Xinjiang Hotan about household flush toilets in the China's people's congress Hotan is a desert region in Xinjiang, Xi asks the local representives: Hotan region has very limited arable lands, how do you manage to use the lands most effectively? and to ensure the flush toilets avaible for every household in the region, how did you manage this program...?


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## JSCh

5,000-year population history of Xinjiang brought to light in new ancient DNA study 
@sciencemagazine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509591388572237824
Bronze and Iron Age population movements underlie Xinjiang population history | Science

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## beijingwalker

Airport in the middle of nowhere, Mongolküre County airport in the Xinjiang Ili Kazakh Autonomous Prefecture opens, airport for Kazakh herders... Mongolküre County is known for its vast pasture grasslands and horseback culture

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## beijingwalker

Another out of nowhere airport, Xinjiang High Plateau airport Tashkurgan Khunjerab airport in Pamir plateau soon to be officially open next month in May

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## beijingwalker

Kazakh herder girl teaches Kazakh middle school students how to ride horses in Xinjiang, Kazakhs are called horseback people but now very few youngsters still know how to ride a horse,their parents drive them everywhere, car culture had completely replaced horseback culture in Xinjiang, this Kazakh girl likes to preserve their horseback riding culture.

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## beijingwalker

How quickly Xinjiang police react to emergencies. A rural primary school student in Xinjiang was suddenly choking on food, the police rushed to the student and saved the student in just 6 seconds.

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## Char

Building highway in the takelamagan desert



https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4767631607074502#&video


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang college life
XInjiang teachers' college

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## Broccoli

silverox said:


> The root cause of the Uyghur rebellion is Uyghur racial discrimination against Chinese culture. I have read many articles by Uyghur intellectuals who have profound malice and racial discrimination against Chinese people and Chinese culture. The most typical example is Ilham I, a professor at Minzu University of China who was sentenced to life imprisonment.In the Uyghur Forum he established, there are many Uyghurs (most of them were raised with Chinese education, called Min Kao Han 民考汉 in China) unabashedly said that if the Japanese killed all the Chinese during World War II, Then the Uyghurs can be neighbors with Japan, a developed country.
> During the growth of these uyghur intellectuals, China itself had serious self-doubt. The Chinese found that Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, and Taiwan were all developed and rich, while China was very poor. Therefore, in the 1980s, the most popular book in China was Ugly Chinese, this book stigmatizes Chinese civilization and even its race as inferior.
> China's ruling party itself has fallen into serious self-doubt and abandoned the ideology of the Communist Party, and even now, as a member of the Communist Party myself, I don't believe in communism. For the Chinese, communism was one of the various ideological trend in the 1920s that want to saved the country, but at best it won. This has allowed the grassroots regimes in Muslim-populated areas of Xinjiang and other provinces to be almost infiltrated and controlled by extreme Islamists. Especially in Ningxia, Gansu, these two provinces, the Islamic extremism of the Hui people is stronger than that of the Uyghurs in Xinjiang, but these people have not dared to challenge Beijing directly.
> Especially the Kazakhs, it is even more hateful. Most of these Kazakhs fled from the Soviet Union to Xinjiang, China to escape the Kazakh famine in the Soviet Union. After they entered the country illegally, they tried to occupy Chinese territory. Even now, some Kazakhs want to split with the Uyghurs. Xinjiang. Their fantasy is to add northern Xinjiang to Kazakhstan.
> I personally think that China's method of reclaiming Xinjiang in 1949 went wrong, when it directly incorporated Uyghur Kazakh separatists armed by the Soviet Union into PLA .
> Nothing you get through peace is secure, because you don't create a precedent, you don't have power and authority。
> Hong Kong is one example, and the Uyghur insurgency is another.
> * Ukrainian politicians have learned not to respect Russia's strategic interests without blood and fire. *The biggest mistake in China is that the traditional Confucian spirit of the Chinese people is too much respect for life and tolerance for heresy. If China could eliminate more than 100,000 rebels at that time, Xinjiang would be much more peaceful now.*Uyghurs will also learn to appreciate and respect Chinese civilization, instead of boasting that Uyghurs have more contact with higher and better Persian, Russian and British civilizations than China.*




Nobody is respecting Russia in Ukraine that's why they are cooking Russian tankers with Javelins. Rest of your message is textbook fascist gibberish.



> Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete. They regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[8] A fascist state is led by a strong leader (such as a dictator) and a martial law government composed of the members of the governing fascist party to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[8] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views imperialism, political violence and war as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[9]
> 
> Fascists advocate a dirigisme[10][11] economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (national economic self-sufficiency) through protectionist and economic interventionist policies.[12] The extreme authoritarianism and nationalism of fascism often manifests a belief in racial purity or a master race, usually synthesized with some variant of racism or bigotry against a demonized "Other". These ideas have motivated fascist regimes to commit genocides, massacres, forced sterilizations, mass killings, and forced deportations.[13]











Fascism - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Chat SAMOSA

JSCh said:


> 5,000-year population history of Xinjiang brought to light in new ancient DNA study
> @sciencemagazine
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509591388572237824
> Bronze and Iron Age population movements underlie Xinjiang population history | Science


Interesting , especially the iron age Saka part.


Anyone know how they can guess hair and eye color from ancient DNA? Is it a post association reference or some gene pair ?


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## silverox

Broccoli said:


> Nobody is respecting Russia in Ukraine that's why they are cooking Russian tankers with Javelins. Rest of your message is textbook fascist gibberish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fascism - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


u are LGBTQ

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532906790706245632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532896470659047426

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532848451284656128
😍


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532436892620185600

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534430026569076736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534007239966613504

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## Daniel808

Building Xinjiang in the middle of sandstorm 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537597090699743233

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## fisher1

So much infrastructure so much new buildings, all at the cost of poor Uighurs

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## Daniel808

fisher1 said:


> So much infrastructure so much new buildings, all at the cost of poor Uighurs



Cry about it  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537353284096167937

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## mili

fisher1 said:


> So much infrastructure so much new buildings, all at the cost of poor Uighurs


lol, 'poor' Uighurs have better standard of living than South Asia & even many in the west.

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## Daniel808

mili said:


> lol, 'poor' Uighurs have better standard of living than South Asia & even many in the west.



If they dare to ruin Xinjiang, She would butcher him immediately  







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516700196222111748

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## Daniel808

Many people failed to realize, How Proud Xinjiang people (Uyghur, Han, Hui, Kazakh, Tajik, Mongol) to their motherland 


This is when Xinjiang people showing their support to Chinese Winter Olympic Delegation back in 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490144748610359296

Not only that, When China still weak and poor. There are many Xinjiang people (in this case Uyghurs) showing their loyalty determination toward their motherland, China.

*Like the story of Brumahan Molledo :*

_*Brumahan Molledo, a 77-year-old border guard, has carved more than 100,000 boundary stones with the Chinese characters for “China” in her 58 years of patrolling at the westernmost border in NW China’s #Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.

“I will carve “China” onto border stones as long as I can move,” Molledo, who did not let one individual or even one livestock cross the border line in the past 58 years. Her persistence and patriotism has melted hearts and won respect.

In 1964, Molledo became a member of the first batch of border guards in Kizilsu Kirghiz Autonomous Prefecture in Xinjiang. At the time, she found no boundary markers, so she decided to hand carve some, which today help mark the patrolling route for PLA troops who guard the border.

“The route is carved in my heart. Even if one stone moves, I would know it immediately,” said Molledo confidently.

Molledo has saved other border guards from snowstorms and frostbite in their patrols on numerous occasions. “They left their mother to guard the national border, so I will be their mother,” she said.

Influenced by Molledo, her five children have all become border guards. “I did not understand my mother’s sacrifice for the border when I was young, but now I patrol the border, too. From then on, I have felt so proud of her,” one of Molledo’s son said.*_

*In October, Molledo received the People’s Role Model award, a national honor for individuals who make great contributions to the country.*







You would not find this kind of truth about Xinjiang from western propaganda media

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## fisher1

Daniel808 said:


> Cry about it


Do you remember how Mongols reign of terror felt like? Or Hitlers? No? That’s because tyrants meet their end rather quickly and Uighurs will be freed as well. It’s just a matter of time when Xi Jinpig will be forgotten like other tyrants



mili said:


> lol, 'poor' Uighurs have better standard of living than South Asia & even many in the west.



Sure, leave it to Chinese to tell us living in concentration camps is better standard of living than freedom in other countries lol



Daniel808 said:


> Many people failed to realize, How Proud Xinjiang people (Uyghur, Han, Hui, Kazakh, Tajik, Mongol) to their motherland
> 
> 
> This is when Xinjiang people showing their support to Chinese Winter Olympic Delegation back in 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490144748610359296
> 
> Not only that, When China still weak and poor. There are many Xinjiang people (in this case Uyghurs) showing their loyalty determination toward their motherland, China.
> 
> *Like the story of Brumahan Molledo :*
> 
> _*Brumahan Molledo, a 77-year-old border guard, has carved more than 100,000 boundary stones with the Chinese characters for “China” in her 58 years of patrolling at the westernmost border in NW China’s #Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.
> 
> “I will carve “China” onto border stones as long as I can move,” Molledo, who did not let one individual or even one livestock cross the border line in the past 58 years. Her persistence and patriotism has melted hearts and won respect.
> 
> In 1964, Molledo became a member of the first batch of border guards in Kizilsu Kirghiz Autonomous Prefecture in Xinjiang. At the time, she found no boundary markers, so she decided to hand carve some, which today help mark the patrolling route for PLA troops who guard the border.
> 
> “The route is carved in my heart. Even if one stone moves, I would know it immediately,” said Molledo confidently.
> 
> Molledo has saved other border guards from snowstorms and frostbite in their patrols on numerous occasions. “They left their mother to guard the national border, so I will be their mother,” she said.
> 
> Influenced by Molledo, her five children have all become border guards. “I did not understand my mother’s sacrifice for the border when I was young, but now I patrol the border, too. From then on, I have felt so proud of her,” one of Molledo’s son said.*_
> 
> *In October, Molledo received the People’s Role Model award, a national honor for individuals who make great contributions to the country.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You would not find this kind of truth about Xinjiang from western propaganda media



Uighurs were free in East Turkestan and Chinese occupiers then occupied it making it autonomous region then completely abrogating that autonomy.

Uighurs are different people from atheist communists who think this Phone I am typing from came to being on its own through millions of years of sand lol.

Uighurs and China are like Pakistan and India. Two different people. Sadly both Kashmir and East Turkestan are occupied by India and China


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## mili

fisher1 said:


> Sure, leave it to Chinese to tell us living in concentration camps is better standard of living than freedom in other countries lol


lol, leave it to usa slaves in prisons & dropping like flies from virus & starvation to tell us they dont have much lower standard of living than Uighurs.

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## 帅的一匹

mili said:


> lol, leave it to usa slaves in prisons & dropping like flies from virus & starvation to tell us they dont have much lower standard of living than Uighurs.


There are lot of CIA shit ranting on this forum.

Uyghurs are doing fine, so just let them envy.

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## 帅的一匹

Those key board warriors don’t even met an Uyghur Muslim once in their life, saying that China is persecuting Uyghers, lmao.

Yes, some of the Uyghers separatists are asshole, but I believed 99% of them are good people.



fisher1 said:


> Do you remember how Mongols reign of terror felt like? Or Hitlers? No? That’s because tyrants meet their end rather quickly and Uighurs will be freed as well. It’s just a matter of time when Xi Jinpig will be forgotten like other tyrants
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, leave it to Chinese to tell us living in concentration camps is better standard of living than freedom in other countries lol
> 
> 
> 
> Uighurs were free in East Turkestan and Chinese occupiers then occupied it making it autonomous region then completely abrogating that autonomy.
> 
> Uighurs are different people from atheist communists who think this Phone I am typing from came to being on its own through millions of years of sand lol.
> 
> Uighurs and China are like Pakistan and India. Two different people. Sadly both Kashmir and East Turkestan are occupied by India and China


There is no place on this planet called east Turkestan ever and never.

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## 帅的一匹

Some of the uyghers separatists fabricating those ethnic cleansing shit story just to cozy up to their western master, and sadfishing is the only way to make ends meet in their pathetic life.

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## chinasun

State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China​








State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China


Despite the Trump administration’s declaration of a genocide in Xinjiang, upheld by the Biden administration, some legal experts suspect China’s behavior may fall short of…




foreignpolicy.com




Blindly trust the Western media without judging the truth. It will only make you a tool for others.


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## etylo

fisher1 said:


> Do you remember how Mongols reign of terror felt like? Or Hitlers? No? That’s because tyrants meet their end rather quickly and Uighurs will be freed as well. It’s just a matter of time when Xi Jinpig will be forgotten like other tyrants
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, leave it to Chinese to tell us living in concentration camps is better standard of living than freedom in other countries lol
> 
> 
> 
> Uighurs were free in East Turkestan and Chinese occupiers then occupied it making it autonomous region then completely abrogating that autonomy.
> 
> Uighurs are different people from atheist communists who think this Phone I am typing from came to being on its own through millions of years of sand lol.
> 
> Uighurs and China are like Pakistan and India. Two different people. Sadly both Kashmir and East Turkestan are occupied by India and China


Keep dreaming, Turk.

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## beijingwalker

*My name is Hong kong Mohammed*
My name is Hong kong Mohammed, This is my ID card, I was born in July.1 1997, the same day that Hong kong returned to the motherland China, so my father named me Hong Kong.

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## Daniel808

This troll will butthurt so much seeing she living her dream in Xinjiang, China. While he is living in stone age cave  @fisher1


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541702066585800704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541343257782759424

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## beijingwalker

Villagers in northwestern Chinese region earn better after relocation from impoverished areas​


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## JSCh

A bullet train was turned into an "ambulance" as a 7-day-old baby was transferred by high-speed rail to a hospital in China's Xinjiang. #GLOBALink

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544983370777903104

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## JSCh

↑↑↑ A bit more details

#MeltingMoment At the request of the mother of a critically ill infant calling for urgent medical assistance, people from two areas of northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region completed an 11-hour "relay race" to come to her aid.

The infant, who was seven days old and weighed 3.56 kilograms on June 30, was being treated in a hospital in Hami City as he had suffered a gastrointestinal perforation. After comprehensive evaluation by doctors, it was determined that the boy was in desperate need of more complex medical procedures at another hospital in the regional capital Urumqi, some 539 km from Hami.

With the joint efforts of railway authorities from China Railway Urumqi Group Co., Ltd. and Hami's medical institution, the infant was successfully transferred to Urumqi in less than three hours and finally pulled through after the timely operation.

"I couldn't imagine how I would have survived this difficult time without the support and coordination from railway and hospital authorities in both Hami and Urumqi," said Mukaram Yusup, the infant's mother. "I would like to say thank you to them in person if I could see them," she added.





Log into Facebook


Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.




www.facebook.com





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545339406533287937

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## Daniel808



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## Luosifen




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## Luosifen




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## PakAlp

@MH.Yang 
You've recently wrote on Russian/Ukrainian war thread that China doesn't have any re-education schools/detention centres for Uighur Muslims. The western world disagrees and alot of information is available to show something is going on in Xinjiang. 

I understand there were some extremist elements who needed to be dealt with but how is China dealing with the wider population? 

Keep in mind, the western media claims the re-education schools/detention centre force Muslims to eat food which is against our religion, forces women to sleep with men, amongst other things. Has China allowed any international human right organisations to attend Xinjiang to see what is happening etc.









Who are the Uyghurs and why is China being accused of genocide?


China has been accused by the US of genocide and crimes against humanity against the Muslim minority group.



www.bbc.com


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## MH.Yang

PakAlp said:


> @MH.Yang
> You've recently wrote on Russian/Ukrainian war thread that China doesn't have any re-education schools/detention centres for Uighur Muslims. The western world disagrees and alot of information is available to show something is going on in Xinjiang.
> 
> I understand there were some extremist elements who needed to be dealt with but how is China dealing with the wider population?
> 
> Keep in mind, the western media claims the re-education schools/detention centre force Muslims to eat food which is against our religion, forces women to sleep with men, amongst other things. Has China allowed any international human right organisations to attend Xinjiang to see what is happening etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Uyghurs and why is China being accused of genocide?
> 
> 
> China has been accused by the US of genocide and crimes against humanity against the Muslim minority group.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com


Concentration camps can only intensify contradictions, but cannot solve them. This has enough historical proof. 

Chinese people are not stupid. How can they set up concentration camps? 

In Chinese history, too many ethnic groups have been integrated. We have always used economic means to integrate. We have all succeeded. We have never used concentration camps.

The West has no evidence at all. If that's true, how can there be no evidence?

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## PakAlp

MH.Yang said:


> Concentration camps can only intensify contradictions, but cannot solve them. This has enough historical proof.
> 
> Chinese people are not stupid. How can they set up concentration camps?
> 
> In Chinese history, too many ethnic groups have been integrated. We have always used economic means to integrate. We have all succeeded. We have never used concentration camps.
> 
> The West has no evidence at all. If that's true, how can there be no evidence?








Would China allow independent human rights to visit and see what is happening. First China denied any centres but then claimed they're boarding schools for Uighurs, this includes people from all ages. It would be concerning if they force people to leave their religion and culture, like forcing them to shave beards and eating unIslamic food, sleeping with men etc.

How can you say you China never used concentration camps? Have you visited Xinjiang? At times the general population doesn't know what is happening but government is doing harm. What is the purpose of these re education centres?

The western world bombed Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and killed 10000s but western population doesn't hold them accountable, the point is at times general population doesn't know and they follow what the government/media says.


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## MH.Yang

PakAlp said:


> Would China allow independent human rights to visit and see what is happening. First China denied any centres but then claimed they're boarding schools for Uighurs, this includes people from all ages. It would be concerning if they force people to leave their religion and culture, like forcing them to shave beards and eating unIslamic food, sleeping with men etc.
> 
> How can you say you China never used concentration camps? Have you visited Xinjiang? At times the general population doesn't know what is happening but government is doing harm. What is the purpose of these re education centres?
> 
> The western world bombed Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and killed 10000s but western population doesn't hold them accountable, the point is at times general population doesn't know and they follow what the government/media says.


Xinjiang does not prohibit foreigners from visiting. These are not concentration camps. Haven't you been vilified by Western media enough? Do you still believe them?

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## gambit

MH.Yang said:


> Xinjiang does not prohibit foreigners from visiting. These are not concentration camps. Haven't you been vilified by Western media enough? Do you still believe them?


Sorry, but Shang-Chi, Master of Kung fu, disagree.







Around me, life in Cell 202 began over and over again beneath the relentless flourescence that flattened all sense of night and day. So this was detention: a rotation of measly meals brought in by deaf-mute cooks, chosen for their disability so they could not disclose what was afoot here. Congee or cornstarch slurry or cabbage soup, stale bread, one egg a week. I lost a lot of weight -- so much that my index fingers and thumbs met when I squeezed my waist.​​There are too much evidences, from satellites to personal testimonies. Denying what is going on with the Uyghurs in China is like Americans denying institutional slavery existed in the US, and that a civil war occurred because of it.


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## etylo

PakAlp said:


> @MH.Yang
> You've recently wrote on Russian/Ukrainian war thread that China doesn't have any re-education schools/detention centres for Uighur Muslims. The western world disagrees and alot of information is available to show something is going on in Xinjiang.
> 
> I understand there were some extremist elements who needed to be dealt with but how is China dealing with the wider population?
> 
> Keep in mind, the western media claims the re-education schools/detention centre force Muslims to eat food which is against our religion, forces women to sleep with men, amongst other things. Has China allowed any international human right organisations to attend Xinjiang to see what is happening etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Uyghurs and why is China being accused of genocide?
> 
> 
> China has been accused by the US of genocide and crimes against humanity against the Muslim minority group.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com


Human rights organizationas such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty are all Western puppets with their own agendas against non-western countries and esp "enemies" of the West. The UN Human Rights high commissioner just visited Xinjiang weeks ago and she couldn't find anything wrong and now she is under West's attacks. The world should scrutinize the violent racial attacks and hatred discrimination against colored minorities that are widely spread in the US and the West. Who trust anything from American and Western media esp on China and Russia these days ?

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## etylo

gambit said:


> Sorry, but Shang-Chi, Master of Kung fu, disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around me, life in Cell 202 began over and over again beneath the relentless flourescence that flattened all sense of night and day. So this was detention: a rotation of measly meals brought in by deaf-mute cooks, chosen for their disability so they could not disclose what was afoot here. Congee or cornstarch slurry or cabbage soup, stale bread, one egg a week. I lost a lot of weight -- so much that my index fingers and thumbs met when I squeezed my waist.​​There are too much evidences, from satellites to personal testimonies. Denying what is going on with the Uyghurs in China is like Americans denying institutional slavery existed in the US, and that a civil war occurred because of it.


Show your f advanced American satellite pictures of concentration camps of actual Uyghers in Xinjiang then. Don't just kiss up to your white masters based on BS nothing concrete. You should be really worried about the real genocides of Native Americans, slavery of blacks and the violence and hatred against colored minorities that are still widely perpetuated in your country ! You Americans the worst human rights violators in human history, yet have the audacity to always accuse others of committing heinous human rights crimes that are totally BS and only you Americans are capable. You Americans will just blatantly lie about your enemies in order to destroy them just as you did in Vietnam war fabricating that North Vietnamese navy attacked US navy in South China sea in order to wage war on North Vietnam and the US used a bottle of detergent in UN meeting to prove or blatantly lie about that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction in order to wage war on Iraq. Your secretary of State Pompeo swaggers of the US into the bright light: “*We lied, we cheated, we stole*." and your country are proud of such behaviours ! Absolutely shameless !

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## Mirzali Khan

PakAlp said:


> Would China allow independent human rights to visit and see what is happening. First China denied any centres but then claimed they're boarding schools for Uighurs, this includes people from all ages. It would be concerning if they force people to leave their religion and culture, like forcing them to shave beards and eating unIslamic food, sleeping with men etc.
> 
> How can you say you China never used concentration camps? Have you visited Xinjiang? At times the general population doesn't know what is happening but government is doing harm. What is the purpose of these re education centres?
> 
> The western world bombed Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and killed 10000s but western population doesn't hold them accountable, the point is at times general population doesn't know and they follow what the government/media says.


 
Chordo Bhai 

There was extensive deshatgardi done by the ETIM and they were hiding up all in Waziristan and allied with TTP. 

China is also the only other country taking Kashmir seriously as they are constnalty pushing preassure on the LAC while our Papa John Defense Force signed a ceasefire on LOC. 

Bro Imran Khan stood up for Palestine how many of these Palestinian activists uttered a word about his departure?  

Chordo.

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## beijingwalker

China to allow Turkish delegation to come to Xinjiang 2 months after UN human rights chief's visit​
Fri, August 5, 2022, 5:30 PM





_Mevlut Cavusoglu and Wang Yi on the sidelines of meetings of foreign ministers on East Asia cooperation in Cambodia. Photo: Xinhua alt=Mevlut Cavusoglu and Wang Yi on the sidelines of meetings of foreign ministers on East Asia cooperation in Cambodia. Photo: Xinhua>_

China has said it will welcome a Turkish delegation to Xinjiang, two months after the United Nations human rights chief visited the region to investigate allegations of widespread abuses.

On the sidelines of a meeting of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in Cambodia, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi told his Turkish counterpart Mevlut Cavusoglu on Wednesday that "China has always taken an attitude of being open and transparent on issues related to Xinjiang".

Wang pledged to communicate closely over the issue and added that, as emerging economies, the two countries had closely intertwined interests and similar positions, and should promote cooperation, according to a Chinese foreign ministry statement.

Do you have questions about the biggest topics and trends from around the world? Get the answers with SCMP Knowledge, our new platform of curated content with explainers, FAQs, analyses and infographics brought to you by our award-winning team.

Cavusoglu said Ankara firmly adhered to the one-China policy not only on the Taiwan question but also on issues concerning Xinjiang, according to the Chinese statement.

He added that the Turkish side was glad UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet had visited Xinjiang and hoped to stay in contact with Beijing over the planned tour.

The two sides did not provide further details of the visit.

Bachelet's trip was the first to China by a UN human rights high commissioner since 2005. Beijing said it "achieved positive and practical results", but the United States voiced "deep concern" over China's alleged "efforts to restrict and manipulate" the visit.

The Chinese government has been accused of forced sterilisation and mass internment of members of the Uygur ethnic group and other Muslim minorities in the far-western region - an allegation it has repeatedly denied, insisting the internment camps are vocational training centres for deradicalisation and to tackle terrorism.

After the visit, Bachelet said that while she could not assess the full scale of the "vocational education and training centres", she was concerned about the lack of independent judicial oversight of the facilities, allegations of the use of force and "unduly severe restriction on legitimate religious practices" inside the centres.

She also called on Beijing to review all its counterterrorism and anti-radicalisation policies to make sure they complied with international human rights standards.

The issue of Xinjiang has also been among the most sensitive issues in Chinese-Turkish relations and Ankara's support could be potentially important to China as it plays host to an estimated 50,000 Uygurs, the largest diaspora outside Central Asia.

Beijing has said the two countries should respect each other's sovereignty and is worried that an initiative from Ankara to strengthen the political role of the Organisation of Turkic States - a name adopted last November - will increase its influence among Turkic-speaking groups, including the Uygurs.

The group, which was first established in 2009 as the Cooperation Council of Turkic-speaking States, has its headquarters in Istanbul.

Its other members are Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan, with Turkmenistan and Hungary as observer states.

On Wednesday, the two sides also talked about food security challenges caused by the war in Ukraine. The Turkish side also called for a more balanced economic and trade relationship and more frequent direct flights between the two countries.









China to allow Turkish delegation to come to Xinjiang 2 months after UN human rights chief's visit


China has said it will welcome a Turkish delegation to Xinjiang, two months after the United Nations human rights chief visited the region to investigate allegations of widespread abuses. On the sidelines of a meeting of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in Cambodia, Chinese Foreign...




finance.yahoo.com


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## beijingwalker

China's Xinjiang to invest ￥80 billion ($12.54 billion) yuan in transport infrastructure in 2022​


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## Char

beijingwalker said:


> China to allow Turkish delegation to come to Xinjiang 2 months after UN human rights chief's visit​
> Fri, August 5, 2022, 5:30 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Mevlut Cavusoglu and Wang Yi on the sidelines of meetings of foreign ministers on East Asia cooperation in Cambodia. Photo: Xinhua alt=Mevlut Cavusoglu and Wang Yi on the sidelines of meetings of foreign ministers on East Asia cooperation in Cambodia. Photo: Xinhua>_
> 
> China has said it will welcome a Turkish delegation to Xinjiang, two months after the United Nations human rights chief visited the region to investigate allegations of widespread abuses.
> 
> On the sidelines of a meeting of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in Cambodia, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi told his Turkish counterpart Mevlut Cavusoglu on Wednesday that "China has always taken an attitude of being open and transparent on issues related to Xinjiang".
> 
> Wang pledged to communicate closely over the issue and added that, as emerging economies, the two countries had closely intertwined interests and similar positions, and should promote cooperation, according to a Chinese foreign ministry statement.
> 
> Do you have questions about the biggest topics and trends from around the world? Get the answers with SCMP Knowledge, our new platform of curated content with explainers, FAQs, analyses and infographics brought to you by our award-winning team.
> 
> Cavusoglu said Ankara firmly adhered to the one-China policy not only on the Taiwan question but also on issues concerning Xinjiang, according to the Chinese statement.
> 
> He added that the Turkish side was glad UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet had visited Xinjiang and hoped to stay in contact with Beijing over the planned tour.
> 
> The two sides did not provide further details of the visit.
> 
> Bachelet's trip was the first to China by a UN human rights high commissioner since 2005. Beijing said it "achieved positive and practical results", but the United States voiced "deep concern" over China's alleged "efforts to restrict and manipulate" the visit.
> 
> The Chinese government has been accused of forced sterilisation and mass internment of members of the Uygur ethnic group and other Muslim minorities in the far-western region - an allegation it has repeatedly denied, insisting the internment camps are vocational training centres for deradicalisation and to tackle terrorism.
> 
> After the visit, Bachelet said that while she could not assess the full scale of the "vocational education and training centres", she was concerned about the lack of independent judicial oversight of the facilities, allegations of the use of force and "unduly severe restriction on legitimate religious practices" inside the centres.
> 
> She also called on Beijing to review all its counterterrorism and anti-radicalisation policies to make sure they complied with international human rights standards.
> 
> The issue of Xinjiang has also been among the most sensitive issues in Chinese-Turkish relations and Ankara's support could be potentially important to China as it plays host to an estimated 50,000 Uygurs, the largest diaspora outside Central Asia.
> 
> Beijing has said the two countries should respect each other's sovereignty and is worried that an initiative from Ankara to strengthen the political role of the Organisation of Turkic States - a name adopted last November - will increase its influence among Turkic-speaking groups, including the Uygurs.
> 
> The group, which was first established in 2009 as the Cooperation Council of Turkic-speaking States, has its headquarters in Istanbul.
> 
> Its other members are Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan, with Turkmenistan and Hungary as observer states.
> 
> On Wednesday, the two sides also talked about food security challenges caused by the war in Ukraine. The Turkish side also called for a more balanced economic and trade relationship and more frequent direct flights between the two countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China to allow Turkish delegation to come to Xinjiang 2 months after UN human rights chief's visit
> 
> 
> China has said it will welcome a Turkish delegation to Xinjiang, two months after the United Nations human rights chief visited the region to investigate allegations of widespread abuses. On the sidelines of a meeting of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in Cambodia, Chinese Foreign...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> finance.yahoo.com



Why not let Turkish go with other muslim countries delegation to Xinjiang?


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang is overwhelmed by the tourists from all over China to beat the summer heat​
Xinjaing is overwhelmed by the tourists from all over China to beat the summer heat. Tens of millions of tourists from all over China swarmed Xinjiang province to beat the summer heat.

Roads in the mountains are packed with cars, rent of the hotels go up to over 1,600USD per night, even simple B and B home lodging goes up to over 200USD per night, but still they had been long booked up, tons of people have to sleep in their cars or simply set up tents and live in them.

The tickets for Tourist itinerary trains go up to 7,500USD each, but they were all sold out. Travelers jokingly say that there are more tourists than sheep on the Xinjiang grasslands, wherever a place that a car can fit in was taken.

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## MH.Yang

this summer is too fucking hot


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## beijingwalker

Tourists from all over China flock into Tashkurgan Pamir Plateau Tajik region, the signifcant increased number is beyond what the local travel agencies of this remote rural small town could possibly handle

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## StraightEdge

what i like is people wearing masks in this picture. covid still killing 15000 every week.


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## beijingwalker

beijingwalker said:


> Tourists from all over China flock into Tashkurgan Pamir Plateau Tajik region, the signifcant increased number is beyond what the local travel agencies of this remote rural small town could possibly handle
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This area is just several kilometers away from Pakistan, literally just a stone throw, if Pakistan can fix its security issues, China's tourists alone can contributate an enormous share into Pakistan's economy and the Chinese tourists no longer have to be packed like sardines in Xinjiang only.

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## SD 10

beijingwalker said:


> This area is just several kilometers away from Pakistan, literally just a stone throw, if Pakistan can fix its security issues, China's tourists alone can contributate an enormous share into Pakistan's economy and the Chinese tourists no longer have to be packed like sardines in Xinjiang only.


power games being played in Pakistan by US and its slaves.... right now their only priority is to clung to the throne!


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## aziqbal

you lock up 1 million Muslim Ughurs 

do turn Muslims into Han Chinese 

you killed HK people and enslaved Tibet 

and you send flithy Han Chinese into these areas and claim its tourism ?

China is another Israel only on a higher scale

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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> you lock up 1 million Muslim Ughurs
> 
> do turn Muslims into Han Chinese
> 
> you killed HK people and enslaved Tibet
> 
> and you send flithy Han Chinese into these areas and claim its tourism ?
> 
> China is another Israel only on a higher scale


Keep ranting, the only thing you are good at. lol..

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## beijingwalker

Really a nice place to beat the summer heat, but this is a little bit over the top though, it's still damn August...

Summer snow hits Xinjiang mountains, cools temperatures to below zero​


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## etylo

aziqbal said:


> you lock up 1 million Muslim Ughurs
> 
> do turn Muslims into Han Chinese
> 
> you killed HK people and enslaved Tibet
> 
> and you send flithy Han Chinese into these areas and claim its tourism ?
> 
> China is another Israel only on a higher scale


You are a British drug addict with induced hallucinations. No surprise here, that's what British are famous for, drug trade and slave trade indeed.

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## MH.Yang

aziqbal said:


> you lock up 1 million Muslim Ughurs
> 
> do turn Muslims into Han Chinese
> 
> you killed HK people and enslaved Tibet
> 
> and you send flithy Han Chinese into these areas and claim its tourism ?
> 
> China is another Israel only on a higher scale


 This news is telling you that any tourists are welcome to visit Xinjiang. Use your own eyes to expose Western rumors.

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## aziqbal

MH.Yang said:


> This news is telling you that any tourists are welcome to visit Xinjiang. Use your own eyes to expose Western rumors.


not tourists invaders

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## beijingwalker

aziqbal said:


> not tourists invaders


They throw tons of money at the locals as their bullets and locals keep raising the price and demand more.


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## -blitzkrieg-

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang is overwhelmed by the tourists from all over China to beat the summer heat​
> Xinjaing is overwhelmed by the tourists from all over China to beat the summer heat. Tens of millions of tourists from all over China swarmed Xinjiang province to beat the summer heat.
> 
> Roads in the mountains are packed with cars, rent of the hotels go up to over 1,600USD per night, even simple B and B home lodging goes up to over 200USD per night, but still they had been long booked up, tons of people have to sleep in their cars or simply set up tents and live in them.
> 
> The tickets for Tourist itinerary trains go up to 7,500USD each, but they were all sold out. Travelers jokingly say that there are more tourists than sheep on the Xinjiang grasslands, wherever a place that a car can fit in was taken.


Ya but Pakistanis have hard time getting a tourist visa to just drive across the border .


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## Beast

aziqbal said:


> you lock up 1 million Muslim Ughurs
> 
> do turn Muslims into Han Chinese
> 
> you killed HK people and enslaved Tibet
> 
> and you send flithy Han Chinese into these areas and claim its tourism ?
> 
> China is another Israel only on a higher scale


Save your crocodile tears for Palestine civilian bomb by Israel F-16 and Indian Kasmir muslim killed by BJP. You are no where to be seen or heard when these muslim needs you to voice against western hypocrite. 

All you care to serving the Christian white master.


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## beijingwalker

beijingwalker said:


> Really a nice place to beat the summer heat, but this is a little bit over the top though, it's still damn August...
> 
> Summer snow hits Xinjiang mountains, cools temperatures to below zero​


Tibet snowed even in mid July... it's nice to go for a vacation there but I won't choose to live there long term, I still like to see some summer days each year.


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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581983905803968512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578913137541029888
*From Desert to Farmland*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578716839391027202

*Next door of Xinjiang (Gansu Province)*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577004053346787328

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## Ethan Rob

I like Xinjiang lamb kebab.


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## S10

aziqbal said:


> you lock up 1 million Muslim Ughurs
> 
> do turn Muslims into Han Chinese
> 
> you killed HK people and enslaved Tibet
> 
> and you send flithy Han Chinese into these areas and claim its tourism ?
> 
> China is another Israel only on a higher scale


Lie and cry some more.

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## aziqbal

More horror from China 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597051747133845504

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## theBill

aziqbal said:


> More horror from China
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597051747133845504


Pakistan especially the UK Pakistanis, should see people of Xinjiang as an example to follow


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## War Historian

aziqbal said:


> More horror from China
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597051747133845504


Han chinese are on full scale to destroy the muslim heritage of East Turkistan.


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang foreign trade up nearly 60 pct in first 11 months​Source: Xinhua

2022-12-15 19:52:47

URUMQI, Dec. 15 (Xinhua) -- Foreign trade volume of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region soared 59.8 percent year on year to 219.4 billion yuan (about 31.6 billion U.S. dollars) from January to November this year, according to data from Urumqi Customs.

The region's trade with countries along the Belt and Road increased by 65.9 percent year on year to over 198.6 billion yuan during this period, while its trade volume with members of the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership also saw an 8.8 percent growth.

From January to November, the import and export volume of Xinjiang's four comprehensive bonded areas, namely, Urumqi, Horgos, Alashankou, and Kashgar, surged by 494.9 percent year on year to 71.48 billion yuan, said the customs.

Textiles, garments, and mechanical and electrical products were Xinjiang's major export items. The export of lithium-ion batteries and solar cells increased significantly, the customs added.

Pragmatic approaches will be taken to improve trade facilitation, reduce costs for importers and exporters, foster new forms of trade, and diversify markets, said the customs. ■






Xinjiang foreign trade up nearly 60 pct in first 11 months


Xinjiang foreign trade up nearly 60 pct in first 11 months-



english.news.cn


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang becomes vital export port for automobiles in China​

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## aziqbal

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang becomes vital export port for automobiles in China​



Fake

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## uhuru

aziqbal said:


> Fake


hi we can all see this as fake. the chief troll must get his money from his master. it wont change reality.


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## Nan Yang

Andy Lau and Chow Yan-fat found on Xinjiang "victims" database! ​


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