# FN FAL vs H&K G3 (IA vs PA)



## MilSpec

Background.

FN FAL: The Phrase "Help I've Fallen" got a new definition when the FN FAL arrived. Didn't matter what odds were against you when you had the biggest baddest boy of assualt rifle world on your shoulders. Unlike the AK and AR, the FAL used a s big 7.62 x 51 full size rifle cartridge. The FAL was predominantly chambered for the 7.62×51mm NATO round, and because of its prevalence and widespread use among the armed forces of many NATO countries during the Cold War it was nicknamed "The right arm of the Free World"

















The FAL operates by means of a gas-operated action very similar to that of the Russian SVT-40. The gas system is driven by a short-stroke, spring-loaded piston housed above the barrel, and the locking mechanism is what is known as a tilting breechblock. To lock, it drops down into a solid shoulder of metal in the heavy receiver much like the bolts of the Russian SKS carbine and French MAS-49 series of semi-automatic rifles. The gas system is fitted with a gas regulator behind the front sight base, allowing adjustment of the gas system in response to environmental conditions. The piston system can be bypassed completely, using the gas plug, to allow for the firing of rifle grenades and manual. The FAL's magazine capacity ranges from five to 30 rounds, with most magazines holding 20 rounds. In fixed stock versions of the FAL, the recoil spring is housed in the stock, while in folding-stock versions it is housed in the receiver cover, necessitating a slightly different receiver cover, recoil spring, and bolt carrier, and a modified lower receiver for the stock.

Indian Army angle : Indian SLR 1A1/2/C is a reverse engineered mixed inch/metric pattern FN FAL rifle produced in both semi auto and full auto formats. 

H&K G3

Heckler And Koch G-3













The G3A3 (A4) is a selective-fire automatic weapon that employs a roller-delayed blowback operating system. The two-piece bolt assembly consists of a breech (bolt head) and bolt carrier. The bolt is held in battery by two sliding cylindrical rollers that engage locking recesses in the barrel extension (popularly called a "trunnion"; BATF calls this a "mounting block"). The breech is opened when both rollers are compressed inward against camming surfaces driven by the rearward pressure of the expanding gases upon the bolt head. As the rollers move inward, recoil energy is transferred to the locking piece and bolt carrier which begin to withdraw while the bolt head slowly moves rearward in relation to the bolt carrier. As the bolt carrier clears the rollers, pressure in the bore drops to a safe level, the bolt head is caught by the bolt carrier and moves to the rear as one unit, continuing the operating cycle. The bolt also features an anti-bounce mechanism that prevents the bolt from bouncing off the barrel's breech surface. The spring-powered claw extractor is also contained inside the bolt while the lever ejector is located inside the trigger housing (actuated by the recoiling bolt)

Pakistan Army Angle: G3 is the standard issue rifle for PA and produced under license by POF in wah. 


Both FAL and G3 are also available to civilians in certain countries in semi auto configurations, and I have been lucky enough to shoot both them. 

the following are my personal observations and opinions based on FAL Imbel Semi auto and PTR 91 (G3 semi auto)


Build quality: I found the G3 built very sturdy and well balanced, FAL pretty much holds up in this area against the G3 but in head to head comparison, G3 wins. Also G3 feels more balanced feel.

Accuracy: Both rifles are extremely accurate upto 300 yards on open sight, but the the action of the breach on the G3 has a delayed roller system which locks the breech head in a very robust manner providing what seems like a tighter seal compared to the FAL's tilting/sliding block arrangement for the breech head. So essentially although the difference isn't huge but in a competition a std G3 will beat a FAL at shot groupings. (Although FAL imbel that I used had a rotating bolt so that might kick the accuracy upto the G3 level)

Dis-assembly/cleaning: FAL shines in ease of cleaning and maintaining and is definitely easier to take down, G3 on the other hand seems a little more complicated and time consuming to do the same. 

Features: FAL has the adjustable gas pressure port, which actually reduces the recoil, and can also be used to cycle a relatively dirty rifle in case of gas port clogging. G3 lacks such feature as it function on blowback mechanism, which adds to reliability but increases recoil. This might be another area where FAL catches up to G3's precision by cutting down the recoil. 

last comment on the comparison would be a non functional non value attribute, "appearance", I like the FAL's looks better than the G3. On side by side comparison, a standard G3 is a better rifle than FN FAL, the difference is marginal but both rifles are extremely potent battle rifle systems.

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## Anubis

@sandy_3126 Have you ever used the type81?I've looked for reviews on youtube but hasn't found any(except for videos of PLA shooting them in shooting ranges).


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## MilSpec

RiasatKhan said:


> @sandy_3126 Have you ever used the type81?I've looked for reviews on youtube but hasn't found any(except for videos of PLA shooting them in shooting ranges).



No, Never heard of it till now, but from what I read from Wiki, there might be another rifle that might be pretty close to that configuration, the PSL,the romanian dragunov lookalike is actually based on RPK, which is essentially a heavier receiver AK with a stronger bolt. That is waht type 81 sounds like from the limited data available.

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## waz

sandy_3126 said:


> Background.
> 
> FN FAL: The Phrase "Help I've Fallen" got a new definition when the FN FAL arrived. Didn't matter what odds were against you when you had the biggest baddest boy of assualt rifle world on your shoulders. Unlike the AK and AR, the FAL used a s big 7.62 x 51 full size rifle cartridge. The FAL was predominantly chambered for the 7.62×51mm NATO round, and because of its prevalence and widespread use among the armed forces of many NATO countries during the Cold War it was nicknamed "The right arm of the Free World"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The FAL operates by means of a gas-operated action very similar to that of the Russian SVT-40. The gas system is driven by a short-stroke, spring-loaded piston housed above the barrel, and the locking mechanism is what is known as a tilting breechblock. To lock, it drops down into a solid shoulder of metal in the heavy receiver much like the bolts of the Russian SKS carbine and French MAS-49 series of semi-automatic rifles. The gas system is fitted with a gas regulator behind the front sight base, allowing adjustment of the gas system in response to environmental conditions. The piston system can be bypassed completely, using the gas plug, to allow for the firing of rifle grenades and manual. The FAL's magazine capacity ranges from five to 30 rounds, with most magazines holding 20 rounds. In fixed stock versions of the FAL, the recoil spring is housed in the stock, while in folding-stock versions it is housed in the receiver cover, necessitating a slightly different receiver cover, recoil spring, and bolt carrier, and a modified lower receiver for the stock.
> 
> Indian Army angle : Indian SLR 1A1/2/C is a reverse engineered mixed inch/metric pattern FN FAL rifle produced in both semi auto and full auto formats.
> 
> H&K G3
> 
> Heckler And Koch G-3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The G3A3 (A4) is a selective-fire automatic weapon that employs a roller-delayed blowback operating system. The two-piece bolt assembly consists of a breech (bolt head) and bolt carrier. The bolt is held in battery by two sliding cylindrical rollers that engage locking recesses in the barrel extension (popularly called a "trunnion"; BATF calls this a "mounting block"). The breech is opened when both rollers are compressed inward against camming surfaces driven by the rearward pressure of the expanding gases upon the bolt head. As the rollers move inward, recoil energy is transferred to the locking piece and bolt carrier which begin to withdraw while the bolt head slowly moves rearward in relation to the bolt carrier. As the bolt carrier clears the rollers, pressure in the bore drops to a safe level, the bolt head is caught by the bolt carrier and moves to the rear as one unit, continuing the operating cycle. The bolt also features an anti-bounce mechanism that prevents the bolt from bouncing off the barrel's breech surface. The spring-powered claw extractor is also contained inside the bolt while the lever ejector is located inside the trigger housing (actuated by the recoiling bolt)
> 
> Pakistan Army Angle: G3 is the standard issue rifle for PA and produced under license by POF in wah.
> 
> 
> Both FAL and G3 are also available to civilians in certain countries in semi auto configurations, and I have been lucky enough to shoot both them.
> 
> the following are my personal observations and opinions based on FAL Imbel Semi auto and PTR 91 (G3 semi auto)
> 
> 
> Build quality: I found the G3 built very sturdy and well balanced, FAL pretty much holds up in this area against the G3 but in head to head comparison, G3 wins. Also G3 feels more balanced feel.
> 
> Accuracy: Both rifles are extremely accurate upto 300 yards on open sight, but the the action of the breach on the G3 has a delayed roller system which locks the breech head in a very robust manner providing what seems like a tighter seal compared to the FAL's tilting/sliding block arrangement for the breech head. So essentially although the difference isn't huge but in a competition a std G3 will beat a FAL at shot groupings. (Although FAL imbel that I used had a rotating bolt so that might kick the accuracy upto the G3 level)
> 
> Dis-assembly/cleaning: FAL shines in ease of cleaning and maintaining and is definitely easier to take down, G3 on the other hand seems a little more complicated and time consuming to do the same.
> 
> Features: FAL has the adjustable gas pressure port, which actually reduces the recoil, and can also be used to cycle a relatively dirty rifle in case of gas port clogging. G3 lacks such feature as it function on blowback mechanism, which adds to reliability but increases recoil. This might be another area where FAL catches up to G3's precision by cutting down the recoil.
> 
> last comment on the comparison would be a non functional non value attribute, "appearance", I like the FAL's looks better than the G3. On side by side comparison, a standard G3 is a better rifle than FN FAL, the difference is marginal but both rifles are extremely potent battle rifle systems.



That made for a nice read thank for that. I have always been a fan of both rifles.


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## acetophenol

Indian Army used the slightly different Indian variant of FN FAL called the SLR. Its no longer the standard issue of Indian army. Its limited to training purposes,and as firing port weapon in our APCs.


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## MilSpec

acetophenol said:


> Indian Army used the slightly different Indian variant of FN FAL called the SLR. Its no longer the standard issue of Indian army. Its limited to training purposes,and as firing port weapon in our APCs.



Different? the only difference between SLR 1A1/2/C variants compared to a metric FAL or an inch pattern L1A1 is that it is a mix of both, from what i know the the dimensions of the gas tube, seals and the bolt are in inch pattern dimension, whereas trigger group spring, receiver housing are closer to metric FAL. 

L1A1 is still in widespread use among the forces. SLR 1AC is the fully auto version still manufactured and being offered for DM's for the army, BSF and para forces.


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## MilSpec

@DESERT FIGHTER @RescueRanger any G3 stories?


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## acetophenol

sandy_3126 said:


> Different? the only difference between SLR 1A1/2/C variants compared to a metric FAL or an inch pattern L1A1 is that it is a mix of both, from what i know the the dimensions of the gas tube, seals and the bolt are in inch pattern dimension, whereas trigger group spring, receiver housing are closer to metric FAL.
> 
> L1A1 is still in widespread use among the forces. SLR 1AC is the fully auto version still manufactured and being offered for DM's for the army, BSF and para forces.



Indeed the difference is in measurements only.
I don't know about the use of SLR L1A1 in active forces. Its my knowledge that in active duties,mostly INSAS is used.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

sandy_3126 said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER @RescueRanger any G3 stories?



The report is a fair statement 

G3s got a nice kick to it; the stopping power is still on par with many of today's modern assault rifles - just the accuracy is slightly off compared to some of the American assault rifles (like the M14)

Makes up for it in firing power and durability. The design is simple and that makes it reliable

And in a fight, that's what you want!

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## RescueRanger

sandy_3126 said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER @RescueRanger any G3 stories?



I have only used the G3 a couple of times and not in anger so i can't comment about it's performance in combat, but i concur with @Abu Zolfiqar's statements.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

RescueRanger said:


> I have only used the G3 a couple of times and not in anger so i can't comment about it's performance in combat, but i concur with @Abu Zolfiqar's statements.



Dear - in anger i think mayybe you could build something much more potent and powerful 

Ehh?

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## MilSpec

Short Barrel PTR 91/Semi auto G3 config






PTR91 full length target rifle 







FAL Configs

DSA industries FAL





FAL Imbel fully dressed up

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## A1Kaid

If the soldier is properly trained for precision firing on the G3, you can trust your life with it in combat. This weapon nearly guarantees that if you hit your target it will highly likely be killed with one shot. The stopping power of the G3 is remarkable even by today's standard. As far as H&K G3 vs FN FAL, these two battle rifles on paper statistically are neck and neck and the edge in battle can only really be achieved by the soldiers individual skill, and with the help of the attachments like optics and scope used to enhance the weapon.

I have read that the FN FAL does experience bullets jamming in the chamber or shells not releasing fully (pipe jam) that is real issue. As far as G3 it's built like a tank, haven't heard of frequent jams. H&K is an elite manufacturer.


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## Umair Nawaz

What about INSAS?


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## MilSpec

Umair Nawaz said:


> What about INSAS?





sandy_3126 said:


> *OFB-INSAS Rifle*
> 
> INSAS (an abbreviation of Indian Small Arms System) is a family of infantry arms consisting of an assault rifle, a light machine gun and a carbine. It is manufactured by the Ordnance Factories Board at Ordnance Factory Tiruchirappalli, Small Arms Factory Kanpur and Ishapore Rifle Factory. The Insas Assault Rifle is the standard infantry weapon of the Indian Armed Forces.
> 
> Insas rifle system has been a very effective low cost solution that utilized the best to offer from three rifle systems, viz. AK47, FN FAL, and the M16.
> 
> The action, long stroke gas system, rotating bolt, and stamped steel receiver gives it the ruggedness and reliability of an AK47, the Gas regulator from the FAL give it the ability to cycle rounds, even if the rifle&#8217;s gas piston is clogged. Although It has a stamped receiver, the tolerances are kept significantly tight along with the lesser reciprocating breach axis offset compared to AK, gives it reliable accuracy.
> 
> 5.56x 45 Nato attracts a lot of flak from critics, but it is still one of the most flat shooting round upto 300 yards, and is effective up to 600 yards. The 7.62 x 39, the AK round has better terminal ballistics but the downside is the rounds justs drops too much. When 7.62 x 39 is zeroed at 100 yards, the compensation at 400 yards is nearly 60 inches making the target nearly disappear from the sight picture( which is the engagement range for IA positions in LOC), With a 5.56 you will have to compensate lesser, but compromise on terminal ballistics which a fair tradeoff, as you are hitting the target (if not completely neutralizing him).
> 
> Insas is controllable in full auto like the m16, whereas FAL becomes an ack ack in full auto and ak you spray and pray. Please bear in mind when the Insas was introduced, there was no 6.8 SPC or the 6.5 grendel options hence 5.56 was lesser of evil when it came to developing a battle rifle.
> All these mix and match features gave you a reliable, low cost, accurate rifle borrowing on best features of contemporaries and minimizing drawbacks of the each mentioned systems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cartridge 5.56x45mm NATO
> 5.56×30mm MINSAS
> Action Gas-operated, Rotating bolt
> Rate of fire 650 rounds/min
> Muzzle velocity 900 m/s (2,953 ft/s)
> Effective range 450 Meters
> Feed system 20/30-round detachable box magazine
> Sights In-built Iron sights
> Plate for attaching various scopes made by Ordnance Factory Board


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## MilSpec

A1Kaid said:


> If the soldier is properly trained for precision firing on the G3, you can trust your life with it in combat. This weapon nearly guarantees that if you hit your target it will highly likely be killed with one shot. The stopping power of the G3 is remarkable even by today's standard. As far as H&K G3 vs FN FAL, these two battle rifles on paper statistically are neck and neck and the edge in battle can only really be achieved by the soldiers individual skill, and with the help of the attachments like optics and scope used to enhance the weapon.
> 
> I have read that the FN FAL does experience bullets jamming in the chamber or shells not releasing fully (pipe jam) that is real issue. As far as G3 it's built like a tank, haven't heard of frequent jams. H&K is an elite manufacturer.



I have shot around 500 rounds of 150 grain Russian non-corrosive ammo, and 149 grain lake city ammo from a FAL Imbel without a single FTE or FTF. 

And from what I have seen, Imbel is actually a pretty poorly made FAL and still It did pretty well.

On a PTR 91, semi auto version of G3, I had lesser range time, and I have become a huge fan of that rifle... a very solid shooter.


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## Neptune

Can PA replace them with the Turkish MPT standart service rifle instead od the G-3 variants? The mass production and the deliveries has started just this month. It'd be far better than FAL& G3P/S


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## hari sud

Indian Army made the worst decision by switching from 7.62 FAL to 5.52 INSAS in 1995. Now they are trying to correct the problem by switching to a new rifle with interchangeable barrel. 

A few Indian generals got convinced by the American version of combat at 200 yards with high rate of machine gun type of fire, and switched to small caliber rifle. To correct that mistake with a multiple barrel gun, India would switch to one of the many multi barrel gun that would cost $10 billion to switch to new rifle.

INSAS has no other problem (ten year teething problems over). Except the generals instead of admitting their stupidity are blaming the quality problems. Just to remind them that from 1955 till 1972, M-16 had huge quality problems. It jammed, hence plunger was provided to clear the barrel. Soldiers were asked for daily cleaning kit. In Vietnam a US GI would dump his M-16 in favour of AK -47 which the enemy carried.

Do not make that mistake of switching to a smaller caliber, Pakistan.


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