# Pakistani kingdoms in mythical Mahabharat epic



## Kabira

People are already familiar with this infamous map. Pakistani kingdoms here seem to be Darada, Gandhara, Kasmira, Kamboja, Bahlika, Madra, Kekaya, Amvastha, Sivi, Sauvira.







Anyone know where we can get detailed information on these kingdoms mentioned above?

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## AugenBlick

save_ghenda said:


> People are already familiar with this infamous map. Pakistani kingdoms here seem to be Darada, Gandhara, Kasmira, Kamboja, Bahlika, Madra, Kekaya, Amvastha, Sivi, Sauvira.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know where we can get detailed information on these kingdoms mentioned above?


Read the mahabharata ... 
BTW why does the map say india if these are pakistani kingdoms ?

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## Kompromat

Mahabaharat = Ancient Game of Thrones. Its a work of fiction, not an authentic historic document.

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## me_itsme

Lol Pakistani kingdoms.

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## Kabira

AugenBlick said:


> Read the mahabharata ...
> BTW why does the map say india if these are pakistani kingdoms ?



This is official map of India made by hindutva.






Hindutvas can draw anywhere on map, its hardly matter. I am just interested in ancient mythical Pakistani kingdoms.



Horus said:


> Mahabaharat = Ancient Game of Thrones. Its a work of fiction, not an authentic historic document.



Ofcourse its fiction.

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## Kompromat

save_ghenda said:


> This is official map of India made by hindutva.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hindutvas can draw anywhere on map, its hardly matter. I am just interested in ancient mythical Pakistani kingdoms.
> 
> 
> 
> Ofcourse its fiction.



I have heard Chile was also part of the Hindu Rashtra that most likely never existed.

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## AugenBlick

save_ghenda said:


> Ofcourse its fiction.



Say it to your selves 100000 times.

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## Kabira

I just googled many of these kingdoms, I don't know what Kamboja is doing in Pakistan? Can any Indian expert on mahabharat explain this?


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## macnurv

save_ghenda said:


> This is official map of India made by hindutva.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hindutvas can draw anywhere on map, its hardly matter. I am just interested in ancient mythical Pakistani kingdoms.
> 
> 
> 
> Ofcourse its fiction.



And don't forget Penguins were the fastest flying birds as well.


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## Indus Pakistan

macnurv said:


> And don't forget Penguins were the fastest flying birds as well.



And don't forget the Hindu god Vishnava below that has been attested by Gopolsharwamiteli in Rajapandasana wherein it is told that vishava holds Kolasparata and stands on Mumabaikhar with many experts agree in Wikihindupedia. ( *In plain English a Hindu god holds earth up )* and the proof is he is wearing loincloth which proves he is Hindu

Edit: Guy's have a look at that pretend map. They have rivers on it going across Thar Desert all the way down to Rann of Kutch ha ha ha. Now we be doing* re-doing* geograhy. This is absurd beyond belief. These guy's are worse then the most neurotic Mullah.

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## Pulsar

Horus said:


> Mahabaharat = Ancient Game of Thrones. Its a work of fiction, not an authentic historic document.


Prove that it's a work of fiction. You can't. Just like you can't prove that Christ was real. But 2 billion Christians insist its true. Where's the proof?

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## Roybot

Atanz said:


> And don't forget the Hindu god Vishnava below that has been attested by Gopolsharwamiteli in Rajapandasana wherein it is told that vishava holds Kolasparata and stands on Mumabaikhar with many experts agree in wikihindupedia. ( *In plain English a Hindu god holds earth up )* and the proof is he is wearing loincloth which proves he is Hindu
> 
> Edit: Guy's have a look at that pretend map. They have rivers on it going across Thar Desert all the way down to Rann of kutch ha ha ha. Now we be doing re-doing geograhy.



Do you want people to start saying stuff about your religion? You are a 50 year old man for god sake, act like one!

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## Indus Pakistan

Roybot said:


> Do you want people to start saying stuff about your religion? You are a 50 year old man for god sake, act like one!



I think you don't know where I stand with religion ....
What has age got to with this...
Shall parrot you as a teenager ?

Edit: I *never use religion* to rationalize anything least of all history or any other temporal subject. You indian's regularly use religion to as a basis of history thus you open it to debate. You will regularly use Hinduism as a tool to claim IVC or remind us we were 'Indian' on account of our ancestors apparently being 'Hindu'.

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## ito

What Pakistani Kingdom? The term 'Pakistan' has been proposed in 1930's


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## Indus Pakistan

The term India was proposed by English in 1600s
The term Indos was proposed by Greeks in referance to Sindh first ..
So ....

BTW If we changed the name of Pakistan to for example "*Sindia"* or *"Gandhara*" or "*Gedrosia"* would that suddenly satisfty you guy's although frankly I don't know whay business it is of you guy's what we call our land in the past?

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## Kaniska

Please do not take us wrong...But there was nothing called Pakistan kingdom before 1947...there was Bharat or Hindu stan kingdom prior to the advent of British...Of course, you can say that modern day Pakistan was part of Mahenjodaro Civilization and many other great kingdoms which was depicted in the history.




save_ghenda said:


> People are already familiar with this infamous map. Pakistani kingdoms here seem to be Darada, Gandhara, Kasmira, Kamboja, Bahlika, Madra, Kekaya, Amvastha, Sivi, Sauvira.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know where we can get detailed information on these kingdoms mentioned above?

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## nForce

There is nothing called Pakistani kingdom. The idea came into existence some 85 years ago and the country was created 68 years ago. After the creation of the country, the leaders pretended to be Arabs and Afghans and Turks. There is no connection between the history of the land and the state of Pakistan.

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## Srinivas

Atanz said:


> The term India was proposed by English in 1600s
> The term Indos was proposed by Greeks in referance to Sindh first ..
> So ....
> 
> BTW If we changed the name of Pakistan to for example "*Sindia"* or *"Gandhara*" or "*Gedrosia"* would that suddenly satisfty you guy's although frankly I don't know whay business it is of you guy's what we call our land in the past?




The term India (Greek), Hindu (Persian/Arabic), Yindoo( Chinese) is a ver old name used by ancient people 
....... Indians are interacting with these people since thousands of years ago.


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## Menace2Society

No such thing as Ancient India. It is complete work of fiction.

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## Kambojaric

Please can people stay on topic and answer the OP:

On topic il start with some info on the Kambojas. The answer to where these people originated from varies but generally they are located in Northern Pakistan somewhere north or north east of Gandhara. A Parama Kamboja kingdom existed across the border in Badakshan and Tajikistan as well.

The Kambojas although originally considered Kshatriya were later classified as mleccha by the people of the gangetic plains for their foreign customs. This is probably due to iranic influences which may or may not have existed from the very beginning. For example there are references in the Pali texts (Bhuridatta Jataka) according to G.K Nariman of Kambojas practising the killing of snakes and other poisinous insects (a Zoroastrian practice). (https://journals.cambridge.org/actio...tyETOCSession=)

"Kita Patanga Uraga ca Bheka
Bantva Kimim Sujjhati Makkhika ca,
Ete hi dhamma anariyarupa
Kambojakanam vithatha bahunnan"

Those men are counted pure who only kill
Frogs, worms, bees, snakes or insects as they will
Those are your savage customs which I hate
Such as Kamboja hordes might emulate (vol vi, 110)



> in some mid third century BCE edicts off the Buddhist king Ashoka from Afghanistan and Pakistan. The existence of at least half-a-dozen rock-carved edicts, written in the Aramaic of the type used in the Achaemenid chancellery, indicates that some of the Iranian speaking Kambojas of the Gandhara/Swat Valley area had continued with their indigenous Zoroasatrian tradition.



Zoroastrianism: An Introduction By Jenny Rose

Romila Thapar too states that



> the tribes of the north were mleccha either because they were located on the frontier such as the Gandhara and Kamboja and therefore both their speech and culture had become contaminated and differed from that of aryavarta, or else, as in the case of the Madra's, they were once aryas but having forsaken the riturals were relegated to mleccha status.



When Alexander crossed the Khyber, some Kamboja tribes had settled down in the Kunar region (Aspasioi sometimes linked with the modern day Pashai) and the Swat Valley (Assakenioi) both of which gave stiff to resistance to the Macedonians and injured Alexander with arrows at least on one occasion. Eventually they lost but as soon as Alexander moved on they killed the governor Alexander had left behind i.e. Nicanor and rebelled.

The Kamboja identity eventually weakens and over the centuries they have spread out in different directions. One section of the Kambojas definitely migrated southwards into the Punjab and NW Hindustan settling there. The modern day Kamboh/Kamboj of Punjab claim descent from this group of the Kambojas.

Some Kambojas further moved on towards Sri Lanka and even South East Asia although these groups were totally integrated and no tribe bearing the Kamboja or any other similar name exists there today afaik:




> The prevalence of the title among the early kings of Ceylon points to the north-west of the Indian sub-continent as the original home of the Sinhalese. One is led to the same conclusion by the occurrence of the name Kaboja (Kamboja) in some of the cave inscriptiosn. The Kambojas were a people who lived in the upper reaches of the Indus Valley in the present western Pakistan, or Kashmir.



Sri Lanka Past and Present By L. R. Reddy


Theres a lot more to say on the Kambojas such as how they were famous horse breeders and offered their services as mercenary cavalry to the kings around. I think they took part in the Kurukshetra as well vaguely remembering some reference to the blue eyed fair skinned Kamboja prince. Further after Islam came most converted to Islam (with some Sikh/Hindu in East Punjab). However il leave it there now and maybe other members can add more info on the Kambojas.

A list of famous Kamboh/Kamboj that I am aware of:

Hasan Mahmudi Kamboh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shahbaz Khan Kamboh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nawab Khair Andesh Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Udham Singh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Kabira

Kaniska said:


> Please do not take us wrong...But there was nothing called Pakistan kingdom before 1947...there was Bharat or Hindu stan kingdom prior to the advent of British...Of course, you can say that modern day Pakistan was part of Mahenjodaro Civilization and many other great kingdoms which was depicted in the history.



I don't take anyone who have Kushan ruler surname seriously, no offence but it seem like Indians are in love with these foreign rulers.

Mahabharat was composed by aryans, its hardly representive of Indian culture.


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## Viva India

'pakistani' kingdoms 


Now wait for some pasha. Or. Jamal to claim. Shakuni as. His ancestor


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## Alpha BeeTee

Atanz said:


> And don't forget the Hindu god Vishnava below that has been attested by Gopolsharwamiteli in Rajapandasana wherein it is told that vishava holds Kolasparata and stands on Mumabaikhar with many experts agree in Wikihindupedia. ( *In plain English a Hindu god holds earth up )* and the proof is he is wearing loincloth which proves he is Hindu
> 
> Edit: Guy's have a look at that pretend map. They have rivers on it going across Thar Desert all the way down to Rann of Kutch ha ha ha. Now we be doing* re-doing* geograhy. This is absurd beyond belief. These guy's are worse then the most neurotic Mullah.


Islam forbids making a mockery or fun of other religions. 
It will hurt the followers and then they will spur hatred against our religion.

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## Alpha BeeTee

Pulsar said:


> Prove that it's a work of fiction. You can't. Just like you can't prove that Christ was real. But 2 billion Christians insist its true. Where's the proof?


Buhahahaa..
Man u're one genuine troll :-D


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## gslv

save_ghenda said:


> Mahabharat was composed by aryans, its hardly representive of Indian culture.


Mahabharat contains Bharat, surely it doesn't represent Indian culture. Lol karna who was a fighter in Mahabharat was king of anga desh I, e bihar. Man, the level of brainwashing going on in your country is astounding level.

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## Kabira

gslv said:


> Mahabharat contains Bharat, surely it doesn't represent Indian culture. Lol karna who was a fighter in Mahabharat was king of anga desh I, e bihar. Man, the level of brainwashing going on in your country is astounding level.



Nope, its just representives of aryans. Just watch any episode of Mahabharat on youtube and tell me how the f is that thing representative of Indians/hindus?


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## Centrist

Bamxa said:


> Please can people stay on topic and answer the OP:
> 
> On topic il start with some info on the Kambojas. The answer to where these people originated from varies but generally they are located in Northern Pakistan somewhere north or north east of Gandhara. A Parama Kamboja kingdom existed across the border in Badakshan and Tajikistan as well.
> 
> The Kambojas although originally considered Kshatriya were later classified as mleccha by the people of the gangetic plains for their foreign customs. This is probably due to iranic influences which may or may not have existed from the very beginning. For example there are references in the Pali texts (Bhuridatta Jataka) according to G.K Nariman of Kambojas practising the killing of snakes and other poisinous insects (a Zoroastrian practice).
> 
> "Kita Patanga Uraga ca Bheka
> Bantva Kimim Sujjhati Makkhika ca,
> Ete hi dhamma anariyarupa
> Kambojakanam vithatha bahunnan"
> 
> Those men are counted pure who only kill
> Frogs, worms, bees, snakes or insects as they will
> Those are your savage customs which I hate
> Such as Kamboja hordes might emulate (vol vi, 110)
> 
> 
> 
> Zoroastrianism: An Introduction By Jenny Rose
> 
> Romila Thapar too states that
> 
> 
> 
> When Alexander crossed the Khyber, some Kamboja tribes had settled down in the Kunar region (Aspasioi sometimes linked with the modern day Pashai) and the Swat Valley (Assakenioi) both of which gave stiff to resistance to the Macedonians and injured Alexander with arrows at least on one occasion. Eventually they lost but as soon as Alexander moved on they killed the governor Alexander had left behind i.e. Nicanor and rebelled.
> 
> The Kamboja identity eventually weakens and over the centuries they have spread out in different directions. One section of the Kambojas definitely migrated southwards into the Punjab and NW Hindustan settling there. The modern day Kamboh/Kamboj of Punjab claim descent from this group of the Kambojas.
> 
> Some Kambojas further moved on towards Sri Lanka and even South East Asia although these groups were totally integrated and no tribe bearing the Kamboja or any other similar name exists there today afaik:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sri Lanka Past and Present By L. R. Reddy
> 
> 
> Theres a lot more to say on the Kambojas such as how they were famous horse breeders and offered their services as mercenary cavalry to the kings around. I think they took part in the Kurukshetra as well vaguely remembering some reference to the blue eyed fair skinned Kamboja prince. Further after Islam came most converted to Islam (with some Sikh/Hindu in East Punjab). However il leave it there now and maybe other members can add more info on the Kambojas.
> 
> A list of famous Kamboh/Kamboj that I am aware of:
> 
> ]


Informative, on topic and a very good post. Although I knew a little about kambhojas earlier, good that I learnt more today.

P.S: I had noticed a few of your posts in some other threads and didn't have a good opinion. But this post proved me wrong. Thanks for your effort.


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## gslv

save_ghenda said:


> Nope, its just representives of aryans. Just watch any episode of Mahabharat on youtube and tell me how the f is that thing representative of Indians/hindus


everything to us, may be not to you. you are not invited to relate to these things . these epics define us. we Indians still name our kids in the people found in Mahabharata . most Hindus still pray to same God as described in Mahabharata.

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## Kabira

gslv said:


> everything to us, may be not to you. you are not invited to relate to these things . these epics define us. we Indians still name our kids in the people found in Mahabharata . most Hindus still pray to same God as described in Mahabharata.



Again how the f aryans are related to you? They are foreign nomadic cattle thieves, if one read Rig Veda only thing they talk about is cattle stealing. You are praying to aryan gods does not make you one of them, you are just f indian.


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## gslv

save_ghenda said:


> Again how the f aryans are related to you? They are foreign nomadic cattle thieves, if one read Rig Veda only thing they talk about is cattle stealing. You are praying to aryan gods does not make you one of them, you are just f indian.


lol . as if i will take your word on this matter as if you are an expert on Vedas/ Sanskrit. keep the opinion to yourself f pakistani.

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## AshishDelhi

save_ghenda said:


> Again how the f aryans are related to you? They are foreign nomadic cattle thieves, if one read Rig Veda only thing they talk about is cattle stealing. You are praying to aryan gods does not make you one of them, you are just f indian.


And who are Pakistanis.. Were they local Hindus earlier or did they come from Arab


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## Winchester

This is an interesting topic if we ignore the cross border trolls...
Great post @baxma


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## Kabira

Cherokee said:


> Pakistani Kingdoms hahahahaha . Only Pakistani KIngdom is taliban .
> 
> 
> 
> hahahahaha . Here comes another momeeeeeeeeeen rig veda expurt ..



You guys are embarrassing, cattle stealing is one of main themes in Rig Veda.

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## Kabira

Cherokee said:


> says al-momeeeeiiiiiin .


"[10-048] HYMN XLVIII. Indra Vaikuntha.
2 I, Indra, am Atharvan's stay and firm support: I brought forth kine to Trita from the Dragon's grasp.
I stripped the Dasyus of their manly might, and gave the cattle-stalls to Matarigvan and Dadhyac."

Aryans used to steal cattle from native dravidians dasus and distribute among themselves.

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## AshishDelhi

save_ghenda said:


> "[10-048] HYMN XLVIII. Indra Vaikuntha.
> 2 I, Indra, am Atharvan's stay and firm support: I brought forth kine to Trita from the Dragon's grasp.
> I stripped the Dasyus of their manly might, and gave the cattle-stalls to Matarigvan and Dadhyac."
> 
> Aryans used to steal cattle from native dravidians dasus and distribute among themselves.


But who are Pakistanis in general..Hindus converted to Muslims or Arabs or chinese


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## gslv

save_ghenda said:


> "[10-048] HYMN XLVIII. Indra Vaikuntha.
> 2 I, Indra, am Atharvan's stay and firm support: I brought forth kine to Trita from the Dragon's grasp.
> I stripped the Dasyus of their manly might, and gave the cattle-stalls to Matarigvan and Dadhyac."
> 
> Aryans used to steal cattle from native dravidians dasus and distribute among themselves.


what about quranic verse that turns jews into pigs and monkey. its all about monkey and pigs right?

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## AshishDelhi

gslv said:


> what about quranic verse that turns jews into pigs and monkey. its all about monkey and pigs right?


This can't be true...why would god say or do such things


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## gslv

AshishDelhi said:


> This can't be true...why would god say or do such things


ask them, i dont believe in any kind of religious drivel .

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## Kabira

Bahlikas.

*Bahlikas in plains of Punjab*
Salya, the king of Madra referred to in the Mahabharata has been called a _Bahlika Pungava_ i.e. foremost among the Bahlikas.[17][18]

Princess Madri from the Madra Royal Family has also been referred to as Bahliki i.e. princess of Bahlika clan.[19]

In the digvijay expedition of Pandava Arjuna, there is a reference to a people called Bahlikas whom Arjuna had to fight with.[20] They are stated to be located on the southern side of Kashmir as neighbors to the Ursa and Sinhapura kingdoms.[21]

A passage in Ramayana attests that on the way from Ayodhya to Kekaya, one had to pass through the country of Bahlikas, located somewhere in Punjab. This shows that ancient Bahlikas had moved to and planted a settlement in Punjab too.[22][23] This is also verified from the epic Mahabharata.

This shows that there was yet another Bahlika country besides the one located in Bactria.

Dr P. E. Pargiter points out that there was also another Bahlika settlement in the plains of Punjab alongside or south of Madradesa.[24][25]

*Bahlikas as mlechcha kings in Kali Yuga*
_The Bahlikas_ have been equated to Mlechchas in the later Brahmanical literature. There is a distinct prophetic statement in the Mahabharata that the mlechcha kings of Sakas, Yavanas, Kambojas, Bahlikas etc. will rule unrighteously in Kali yuga. (3.188.34-36).[56]

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## nForce

save_ghenda said:


> Bahlikas.
> 
> *Bahlikas in plains of Punjab*
> Salya, the king of Madra referred to in the Mahabharata has been called a _Bahlika Pungava_ i.e. foremost among the Bahlikas.[17][18]
> 
> Princess Madri from the Madra Royal Family has also been referred to as Bahliki i.e. princess of Bahlika clan.[19]
> 
> In the digvijay expedition of Pandava Arjuna, there is a reference to a people called Bahlikas whom Arjuna had to fight with.[20] They are stated to be located on the southern side of Kashmir as neighbors to the Ursa and Sinhapura kingdoms.[21]
> 
> A passage in Ramayana attests that on the way from Ayodhya to Kekaya, one had to pass through the country of Bahlikas, located somewhere in Punjab. This shows that ancient Bahlikas had moved to and planted a settlement in Punjab too.[22][23] This is also verified from the epic Mahabharata.
> 
> This shows that there was yet another Bahlika country besides the one located in Bactria.
> 
> Dr P. E. Pargiter points out that there was also another Bahlika settlement in the plains of Punjab alongside or south of Madradesa.[24][25]
> 
> *Bahlikas as mlechcha kings in Kali Yuga*
> _The Bahlikas_ have been equated to Mlechchas in the later Brahmanical literature. There is a distinct prophetic statement in the Mahabharata that the mlechcha kings of Sakas, Yavanas, Kambojas, Bahlikas etc. will rule unrighteously in Kali yuga. (3.188.34-36).[56]




So, you think you know it ?


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## special

Horus said:


> Mahabaharat = Ancient Game of Thrones. Its a work of fiction, not an authentic historic document.





save_ghenda said:


> Ofcourse its fiction.



stay out of religion.
there is no evidence that mohammad nabi existed or jesus was born. learn to respect every religion.

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## Kompromat

special said:


> stay out of religion.
> there is no evidence that mohammad nabi existed or jesus was born. learn to respect every religion.



No one is bringing religion into it. Mahabharata is not a religious book, its an accumulation of stories and myths, this is why its called an 'epic' to begin with.

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## The Great One

Horus said:


> No one is bringing religion into it. Mahabharata is not a religious book, its an accumulation of stories and myths, this is why its called an 'epic' to begin with.


Have you at least heard of

Vishnu
Krishna
Bhagwad Geeta
If not, kindly desist from posting about things of which you have no clue.

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## Kompromat

The Great One said:


> Have you at least heard of
> 
> Vishnu
> Krishna
> Bhagwad Geeta
> If not, kindly desist from posting about things of which you have no clue.



I speak from experience, having read Mahabharata myself.

Try this. Hindu mythology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## AshishDelhi

Horus said:


> I speak from experience, having read Mahabharata myself.
> 
> Try this. Hindu mythology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Have you read Quran, what gslv has posted about Jews is true?

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## Kompromat

AshishDelhi said:


> Have you read Quran, what gslv has posted about Jews is true?



Quran, Bible (Both new and Old Test), Geeta, Granth Sahib, and recently the Book of Mormon. Blessing of being quad lingual is that i can read them with good understanding.

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## Ajai Ghale

Indians should not demean Hindu Mythology by mentioning the connection with present day Pakistan as we have nothing in common with present day Pakistanis as they are more close with Arabs both culturally and Racially as many Pakistani thinks of themselves as Arab Descent.

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## Stephen Cohen

It does NOT matter what Pakistanis think or say about Hindu books like
Ramayana and Mahabharat

What matters is the STRENGTH that Hindus DERIVED from these books
in order to fight and win against barbarians AND Reclaim our land


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## Srinivas

Gandhara kingdom and the Kingdoms of Pakistan. They all participated in Kurulshetra war reason why the epic is called MahaBharata.

Apart from Bagawad Geeta, MahaBharata is an epic.


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## Kompromat

Ajai Ghale said:


> Indians should not demean Hindu Mythology by mentioning the connection with present day Pakistan as we have nothing in common with present day Pakistanis as they are more close with Arabs both culturally and *Racially as many Pakistani thinks of themselves as Arab Descent*.



That is a myth Indians have about Pakistanis.

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## AshishDelhi

Horus said:


> That is a myth Indians have about Pakistanis.


What you say is right...but few Pakistanis themselves claim otherwise...can you answer that question on jews


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## Ajai Ghale

@Horus 

Not by Indians.

Arab origins - The Express Tribune



Stephen Cohen said:


> It does NOT matter what Pakistanis think or say about Hindu books like
> Ramayana and Mahabharat
> 
> What matters is the STRENGTH that Hindus DERIVED from these books
> in order to fight and win against barbarians AND Reclaim our land


Geography in Mahabharata is 90% about North India present day UP Delhi and Haryana.

Hastinapur (UP)
Krishna (Mathura)
Indraprastha (Delhi)
kurukhetra (Haryana)

*Ganga putra Bhishma*


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## Kompromat

AshishDelhi said:


> What you say is right...but few Pakistanis themselves claim otherwise...can you answer that question on jews



You'd have to be more specific on the question.



Ajai Ghale said:


> @Horus
> 
> Not by Indians.
> 
> Arab origins - The Express Tribune
> 
> 
> Geography in Mahabharata is 90% about North India present day UP Delhi and Haryana.
> 
> Hastinapur (UP)
> Krishna (Mathura)
> Indraprastha (Delhi)
> kurukhetra (Haryana)
> 
> *Ganga putra Bhishma*



Sure he is allowed to have his assumptions. This doesn't make it a fact.

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## me_itsme

Some delusions some of the Pakistanis live with, it is so pitiful to have an identity crisis. damn!! Get well soon guys.

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## Levina

Horus said:


> Mahabaharat = Ancient Game of Thrones. Its a work of fiction, not an authentic historic document.





Horus said:


> I speak from experience, having read Mahabharata myself.
> 
> Try this. Hindu mythology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Sire,
Troy was an epic till Schliemann found tat out.... 
For Europeans the Indian subcontinent was a forest with zilch history before 2BC till they stumbled upon Harappa..
So you never know what the Archeologists might find tomorrow.

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## mrwarrior006

Isn't all religion work of fiction 
I mean all these Gita, Quaran and Bible are in the end bed time story books

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## Srinivas

Ajai Ghale said:


> @Horus
> 
> Not by Indians.
> 
> Arab origins - The Express Tribune
> 
> 
> Geography in Mahabharata is 90% about North India present day UP Delhi and Haryana.
> 
> Hastinapur (UP)
> Krishna (Mathura)
> Indraprastha (Delhi)
> kurukhetra (Haryana)
> 
> *Ganga putra Bhishma*




Sindhu Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Madra Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

mahabharata places today - Cities of Mahabharata in the present time

*Cities of Mahabharata in the present time*

1





Let's venture into some cities that are mentioned in the great epic Mahabharata and find out their geographical position in the present India.
*Gandhar: (Sindh Pradesh, Rawalpindi)*
2




This is an ancient city of Mahabharata times situated to the west of River Sindhu in Sindhu Pradesh. Dhritrashtra’s wife Gandhari was the daughter of King Subal of Gandhar. Gandhari’s brother Shakuni was Duryodhan’s maternal uncle who defeated Pandavas by fraud in gamble and became one of the reasons of the war of Mahabharata.
*Takshashila: (Rawalpindi, present day Pakistan)*
3




Takshashila was an ancient city of Mahabharata time and capital of Gandhar Desh. Dhritrashtra’s wife Gandhari was the daughter of King Subal of Gandhar. After the war of Mahabharata when the Pandavas left for Himalayas, Parikshit was crowned the King. He died due to a snake bite. Then to take revenge of his death, Parikshit’s son Janmejay performed a “Nagyagya” in Takshashila and had killed many snakes.
*Kekaya Pradesh: (North border of Jammu and Kashmir)*
4




Kekaya Pradesh was an ancient city of the Mahabharata times. Jaysen, the King of Kekaya was married to Radhadevi, sister of Vasudev. His son Vind was a friend of Jarasandh and Duryodhan. He wanted to get his sister married to Duryodhan but she loved Krishna and so married Krishna. During the period of Mahabharata, Kekaya Pradesh was famous for its valorous warriors. Jaysen’s son Vind supported the Kauravas in the war of Mahabharata.
*Madra Desh: (Other side of the Himalayas in the North, Jammu- Kashmir)*
5




There was an ancient state on the other side of the Himalayas in the North which was called as Madra Desh in Vedic times. According to Aitrai Brahmin, since this was located in the North of the other side of the Himalayas it is also called Uttarkuru. During the time of Mahabharata, Shalya was the King of Madra Desh. His sister Madri was married to Pandu. Sahadev and Nakul were Madri’s sons. For the Rajsurya Yagya organized by Yudhishthir, residents of Madra had come with gifts for Yudhishthir.
*Ujjanak: (Nainital, Uttar Pradesh)*
6




This was an ancient city near Kashipur, Nainital district, Uttar Pradesh. Guru Dronacharya had taught archery to the Pandavas and Kauravas over here. On Guru Dronacharya’s orders, Kunti’s son Bhima had established Shivlinga here. That is why this place is also called Bhimshankar. There is a huge temple of Lord Shiva over here. Few scholars consider this Shivlinga one of the twelve Jyotirlingas.
*Shivi Desh: (South Punjab, North border of India)*
7




Shivi desh was located on the north border of India in South Punjab. The grandson of the generous King Ushinar was Shaivya who had got his daughter Devika married to Yudhishthir. In the war of Mahabharata, Shaivya played a major role of an archer from the side of the Pandavas.
*Banganga: (Kurukshetra, Punjab, now Haryana)*
8




This is a place of pilgrimage located three kilometers away from Kurukshetra. After being injured in the war of Mahabharata, Bhisma Pitamah had laid down here on Sharsaiya (bed of arrows). On being asked by Bhisma for water, Arjun shot an arrow in the ground and a stream of the water of Ganga came out and went straight into Bhisma Pitamah’s mouth and quenched his thirst.

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## Srinivas

*Kurukshetra: (Ambala, Punjab, now Haryana)*
9




Famous as the battlefield of the war of Mahabharata, Kurukshetra is situated forty kilometers to the East of Ambala city. In ancient times, Brahmaji had organized a yagya here. That time this was an extensive land area. In those days it was known as the altar for sacrifice of Lord Brahma. Lord Krishna had revealed the sermon of Gita before the war of Mahabharata at this place. Today a lake named Brahma Sarovar here is very famous for its glory. At the time of a Solar eclipse pilgrims from distant places come here to take a dip in this lake. According to the Bhagwat, before the war of Mahabharata, Lord Krishna along with other members of Yaduvansh had come here for a dip in the Brahmakund.
*Hastinapur: (near Meerut, Uttar Pradesh)*
10




Hastinapur, located near Meerut in Uttar Pradesh was the grand city of Mahabharata time. This was the capital of the Kauravas and the Pandavas. Hastinapur has witnessed many famous incidences described in Mahabharata. Here, Yudhishthir lost his brothers and Draupadi along with his wealth in the game of gamble. Krishna had visited the court of Dhritrashtra being a peace messenger of the Pandavas. Before the birth of the Pandavas and Kauravas, Bhisma had taken an oath here to not to marry in life and let go of his right to the throne as his father Shantanu wanted to marry a boatman’s daughter Satyavati. After winning the war of Mahabharata, Pandavas made Hastinapur as their capital.
*Varnavat: (Near Meerut, Uttarpradesh)*
11




It is a city located near Meerut in Uttarpradesh as described in Mahabharata. It was here that Duryodhan had built a Lakshgriha (wax house) to kill the Pandavas. This city is situated on the banks of River Ganga. To avoid the war of Mahabharata, Pandavas had asked for five villages from the Kauravas, Varnavat was one of these five cities. Even today there is a small village here named Barnava which reminds one of the Mahabharata periods.
*Panchal Pradesh: (near Himalayas, Uttar Pradesh)*
12




As mentioned in Mahabharata, Panchal Pradesh was located between the Himalayas and the River Chamba on both sides of the River Ganga. Once when the King of Panchal got the news of an attack from the King of Ayodhya, he said that his five (panch) sons only were enough to fight the war. Since then it was called “Panchal”. During the time of Mahabharata half of Panchal was owned by King Drupad and the other half was owned by Dronacharya. Draupadi was daughter of the King Drupad and married to Arjun after he won over her in the Swayamvar. Draupadi was named “Panchali” as she was the princess of Panchal.
*Indraprastha: (South of present day New Delhi):*
13




Indraprastha was a grand city situated on the South of present day New Delhi. The Pandavas had established this city after destroying Khandav Van (forest). Vishwakarma, the architect of the devtas (deities) had designed this city. This city was the capital of the Pandavas. Even today, there is a small town named Indraprastha which reminds of the ancient town Indraprastha.
*Vrindavan: (Mathura, Uttarpradesh)*
14




Vrindavan is situated ten kilometers away from Mathura in Uttarpradesh. Vrinda had observed penance here to attain Krishna, since then this place is known as Vrindavan. Vrindavan is the place of Lord Krishna’s Bal- leelayen (playful acts done in childhood). Lord Krishna had played Rasleela with the gopis in Vrindavan. Even today Rasleela is the main attraction of this place. There are many famous temples here, of which the temple of Bankebihari and Radhavallabh is very famous. The only events held here are the Shringar (ornamenting) on Sharad Purnima (full moon day of Ashvin- October or November) and Aarti (praying God with a lighted lamp) on Krishna Janmashtami.
*Gokul: (Uttar Pradesh)*
15




Gokul is situated on the banks of River Yamuna, eight kilometers away from Mathura. To protect Krishna from Kans, Vasudev had left Krishna at his friend Nandrai’s house in Gokul. Krishna and his elder brother Balram were brought up in Gokul. Shri Krishna revealed the sermon of Gita to Arjun before the war of Mahabharata and became Arjun’s charioteer during the war. Balram taught the art of mace fight to Bhima and Duryodhan.
*Barsana: (Uttar Pradesh)*
16




Barsana, 21 km from Govardhan Mountain, has four hilltops that represent the four faces of Brahma the Creator. Each hilltop is associated with some incident from Krishna's life. On Mor Kutir top, he danced guised as a peacock to win the love of Radha. Radha’s parents lived in Barsana. The house of Radha's father is atop the Brahma Hill in Barsana. On this site is the Larily Lal (an endearing name for Radha) temple.

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## Srinivas

*Mathura: (Uttar Pradesh)*
17




Located on the banks of the River Yamuna, Mathura was a famous place of pilgrimage during Mahabharata period. In the Dwapar Age, the Kshatriyas of King Shursen’s lineage made this as their capital. Shri Krishna was born here. Shri Krishna killed the oppressor Kans, son of King Ugrasen and got back Ugrasen his throne. After the fight in between the Yaduvanshis, when the Yadavas were killed, Yudhishthir crowned Brijnath, great grandson of Krishna the King of Mathura.
*Angadesh (Malini Nagari): (Gonda, Uttar Pradesh)*
18




Malini Nagari was the capital of an ancient region of the Gonda district in Uttar Pradesh. Duryodhan had throned Karna the King of this state. Duryodhan had received this state as a gift from Jarasandh. The capital Malini Nagari is a Shaktipeeth. According to the Puranas, Sati’s right hand after being cut by the chakra of Vishnu had fallen here.
*Naimisharanya: (Uttar Bharat)*
19




Near the Gomati Station of Northern Railway, on the banks of the River Gomati is situated a place of pilgrimage named Naimisharanya. According to an ancient story, to find out the right place to perform a Gyansatra (sacrifice) Saint Shonak swirled the Chakra given by Lord Brahma. Brahmaji had said that on swirling the Chakra, wherever the circumference of the wheel will fall, that place will be the perfect place for the sacrifice to be performed. The circumference of the Chakra fell in a Tapovan (a forest in which ascetics perform religious austerities) on the banks of the River Gomati and became famous as a place of pilgrimage. Here only at the time of the Yagya of Shonak Rishi, Ugrashruva said the story of Mahabharata. During the time of the war of Mahabharata, Balram had also visited this place while going on a pilgrimage.
*Kaushambi: (Uttar Pradesh)*
20




Kaushambi was the capital of Vatsa desh during the Mahabharata period and situated to the south of River Ganga near present day city of Allahabad. The residents of Vatsa desh had supported Kauravas in the war of Mahabharata. Later, Kuruvanshis took over this state. Parikshit’s son Janmejay had made Kaushambi his capital.
*Kashi: (Uttar Pradesh)*
21




The ancient city of Mahabharata period, Kashi was famous as the chief education centre of India. Bhisma Pitamah had won over Amba, Ambika and Ambalika, the three daughters of Kashi King. Bhisma wanted to get them married to Vichitravirya. Amba was in love with Shalya, brother of Shishupal, so she refused to marry Vichitravirya. So Ambika and Ambalika were married to Vichitravirya. Dhritrashtra was Ambika’s son and Pandu was Ambalika’s son. Dhritrashtra’s sons were called Kauravas and Pandu’s sons were called Pandavas. The war of Mahabharata was fought between the Kauravas and the Pandavas.
*Ekachakranagari: (Aarah, Bihar)*
22




During the period of Mahabharata, Aarah was known as Ekachakranagari. After being saved from the Lakshgriha, Pandavas had lived in Ekachakranagari for few days at a Brahmin’s house. Every day one person was being sent from Ekachakranagari for the food of a giant named Bakasur. One day, it was this Brahmin’s turn where Pandavas were staying. To save the Brahmin, Bhima went to Bakasur in place of him and killed him. It was here only that Bakasur’s son Bhishak had caught hold of the horse of Yudhishthir’s Ashvamedh Yagya and later was killed by Arjun.
*Magadh: (South Bihar)*
23




The ancient name of present day South Bihar was Magadh. During the time of Mahabharata, Jarasandh ruled Magadh. Asti and Prapti, two daughters of Jarasandh were married to Kans. After Krishna killed Kans, he became an enemy of Jarasandh. Jarasandh attacked Mathura many times. For the Rajsurya Yagya performed by Yudhishthir, Krishna, Arjun and Bhima went to Magadh in the disguise of Brahmins and Bhima killed Jarasandh while wrestling. In the war of Mahabharata, the residents of Magadh had supported the Pandavas.
*Pundrudesh: (Bihar)*
24




A part of Bihar was known as Pundru Desh during the time of Mahabharata. The King Pondrak of this region was a friend of Jarasandh and thought himself to be Krishna. He used to dress up like Krishna. He used to make himself famous in the names of “Vasudev” and “Purshottam”. He was present at the Swayamvar (a choice made by a princess of her husband in public) of Draupadi. Due to his ego, he challenged Krishna to discard his dress or else get ready for a fight. Krishna fought with him and killed him. According to one more mention, when Jarasandh attacked Mathura, Pondrak was with him. Later he attacked Dwarka and was killed by Krishna there.

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## Kompromat

levina said:


> Sire,
> Troy was an epic till Schliemann found tat out....
> For Europeans the Indian subcontinent was a forest with zilch history before 2BC till they stumbled upon Harappa..
> So you never know what the Archeologists might find tomorrow.



Troy is a real geographic point while the story around it is a myth.


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## Srinivas

*Pragjyotishpur: (Gowhati, Assam)*
25





The capital of ancient Assam state, Pragjyotishpur was located near present day Gowhati. During the Mahabharata times Narkasur was the King of this state. He had made sixteen thousand girls his captive. He fought a battle with Lord Krishna. Shri Krishna killed Narkasur and took all the sixteen thousand girls to Dwarka and married them. Later, Bhagdutt, the ruler of Pragjyotishpur fought the war of Mahabharata from the side of the Kauravas and was killed by Arjun. Here, near the Neelkanth Mountain is the famous temple of Kamakhya Devi built by Narkasur.
*Kamakhya: (Assam)*
26




Kamakhya was a famous Shaktipeeth city, ten kilometers away from Gowhati in Assam. During the time of Mahabharata, Narkasur had built here a temple of Kamakhya Devi. According to Bhagwat Purana, when Lord Shiva was roaming around like a man in despair with the dead body of Sati, then Lord Vishnu with the help of his Sudarshan Chakra (a divine discus which swirls around his index finger), cut Sati’s dead body into pieces and dropped them one by one, so that Shiva gets released off this weight and returns to being normal. There were fifty one pieces of the dead body of Sati cut by Lord Vishnu and the places on the earth where they fell are known as Shaktipeeth. Each Shaktipeeth is connected with one of the body part of Sati. Kamakhya in Assam is where the Yoni (vagina) of Sati fell and is considered a very powerful centre of Shakti (female) worship. Kamakhya is worshipped by the Tantriks (spiritual person).
*Manipur: (East India)*
27




Surrounded by Nagaland, Assam, Mizoram and Burma, Manipur was the ancient city of Mahabharata times. Manipur’s King Chitravahan had a daughter named Chitraganda. She was married to Arjun and had a valorous son named Babhruvahan. After King Chitravahan died, Babhruvahan was crowned the King of Manipur as Chitravahan did not have any son. Babhruvahan had taken part in the Rajsurya Yagya performed by the Pandavas.
*Sindhu Desh: (Sindh- Punjab, Mohan-jo-Daro)*
28




The ancient Sindhu Desh of Mahabharata time was famous for art-literature and commercebusiness. The King Jaydrath of Sindhu desh was married to Dushaala, daughter of Dhritrashtra. In the war of Mahabharata, Jaydrath supported the Kauravas. Jaydrath was the chief reason of the death of Arjun’s son Abhimanyu who was caught up in the Chakravyuh. To take revenge of Abhimanyu’s death, Arjun killed Jaydrath.
*Matsya Desh: (North Rajasthan)*
29




Matsya Desh located in the North region of present day Rajasthan was one of the chief states of the Mahabharata times. Its capital was Viraatnagari. Pandavas had lived here at the King Viraat’s palace in the disguise for one year as they were to live incognito after the exile. During this time, King Viraat’s brother-in-law and commander Kichak set a bad eye on Draupadi and was killed by Bhima. Arjun’s son Abhimanyu was married to King Viraat’s daughter Uttara. There is a mention of Matsya Desh even in the Vedic times.
*Muchhkand Tirth: (Dhoulpur, Rajasthan)*
30




In the times of Mahabharata, there was a dangerous mountain range in Dhoulpur, Rajasthan. After winning over Mathura, when Kaalyavan followed Krishna, Krishna hid himself in a cave in this mountain range and covered Muchhkand who was sleeping there with his Pitambar (yellow cloth). Kaalyavan woke up Muchhkand and moment Muchhkand set his eyes on Kaalyavan, he was reduced to ashes. After the war of Mahabharata when the Pandavas left for Himalayas and after Krishna’s departure to Golok, Kalyug first stepped here.
*Patan: (Mehsana, Gujarat)*
31




Patan, situated near Mehsana, Gujarat was a famous commercial city in the Mahabharata period. It is said that in the Dwapar Age there was Hidimbvan around this city. During the period of their exile, the Pandavas had come here and it was here only Bhima killed a demon named Hidimb and married his sister Hidimba.
*Vardayini Dham: (Rupalnagar, near Kalol, Gujarat)*
32




Rupalnagar was known as Rupavati during the time of Mahabharata. While going to Viraatnagari, Pandavas had performed a pooja of Bhagwati Arya over here. As this place was blessed by the Pandavas, the Devi was named Vardayini and the place was named Vardayini Dham. There is a very big temple of Devi Bhagwati over here and devotees in many numbers come to this temple.

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## Srinivas

*Vardayini Dham: (Rupalnagar, near Kalol, Gujarat)*
32




Rupalnagar was known as Rupavati during the time of Mahabharata. While going to Viraatnagari, Pandavas had performed a pooja of Bhagwati Arya over here. As this place was blessed by the Pandavas, the Devi was named Vardayini and the place was named Vardayini Dham. There is a very big temple of Devi Bhagwati over here and devotees in many numbers come to this temple.
*Dwarka: (Gujarat)*
33




This is situated on the west coast of Gujarat and is an ancient city of the Mahabharata period. To protect the Yadavas from on and off attacks of Jarasandh, Lord Krishna shifted his capital from Mathura to Dwarka. In fact, there are two Dwarka cities. One is on the banks of River Gomati where Krishna settled the Yadavas and carried on the administration work of the state from there and the second one Bet Dwarka where the citizens resided. Marine Archeologists have found the sunken remains of Bet-Dwarka off the coast of Gujarat. It is estimated to be a couple of thousand years old.
*Prabhas: (west coast of Gujarat)*
34




This is the famous place of pilgrimage located on the west seacoast of Gujarat. Dwarka is also located within this region. During the Mahabharata period, when Krishna shifted his capital from Mathura to Dwarka, he resided in Prabhas region. It was here only that the Yaduvanshis fought amongst themselves and died. It was in Prabhas that Lord Krishna was injured with the arrow of a hunter and left for his heavenly abode (Golok). After Krishna’s departure the whole area along with Dwarka sunk in the sea. Modern marine –archeologists have found remains of this old city from under the sea.
*Avantika: (Ujjaini, Madhya Pradesh)*
35




The present city Ujjain in Madhya Pradesh was famous in the name of Avantika or Avanti during the Mahabharata period. Rishi Sandipani’s ashram was in Avantika. Lord Krishna and Balram had taken their education (archery and use of weapons) from Sandipani. Avantika is considered one of the seven holy cities of India. There is Mahakal Ling here, one of the twelve Jyotirlingas of Lord Shiva. That is why Avantika is also called the city Of Mahakal.
*Chedi: (Gwalior region, Madhya Pradesh)*
36




Located between the River Ganga and Narmada in Madhya Pradesh, the city of Chedi was a grand city of the Mahabharata time. Shishupal, the King of Chedi was the maternal cousin of Shri Krishna. Shishupal wanted to marry Rukmani but Krishna abducted her and got married to her. Because of this, Shishupal always remained angry with Krishna. While performing the Rajsurya Yagya, when Yudhishthir wanted to give Krishna chief position, Chedi King Shishupal scandalized Krishna and told him all sort of words. At this, Krishna killed him. During the war of Mahabharata, the residents of Chedi supported the Kauravas.
*Shonitpur: (Itarasi, Madhya Pradesh)*
37




Shonitpur, a famous city during the Mahabharata time, was located near Suhagpur few kilometers away from Itarasi in Madhya Pradesh. This ancient city was the capital of Banasur. Banasur’s daughter Usha was married to Aniruddha, grandson of Lord Krishna. There is a temple of Lord Narsinha and is considered to be a place of pilgrimage.
*Vidarbha: (Vidarbha Pradesh)*
38




King Bhismak of Vidarbha, capital of Vidarbha Pradesh was a valorous person. At the time of the Surya Yagya organized by the Pandavas, he had captured the horse of the yagya. Due to this there was a fight between him and Sahadev and he was defeated. Bhismak was Jarasandh’s friend and considered Krishna as his enemy. Shri Krishna had kidnapped his daughter Rukmani and married her.
*Revatak: (near Junagadh, Gujarat)*
39




The Revatak Mountain near Junagadh in Gujarat is also known as Girnar. This Mountain is near Dwarka. Arjun had abducted Subhadra from near this Mountain and later with Krishna’s approval married her.

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## Srinivas

*Indrakil: (one of the mountains of Himalaya Ranges)*
40




Mandarachal, one of the mountains of the Himalayan range is also called Indrakil. After loosing everything in gamble, when Pandavas went to the Himalayas for penance, Arjun had performed deep penance on the Indrakil Mountain. It was on this Mountain, Lord Shiva in the disguise of a hunter fought with Arjun. On being pleased with valor of Arjun in the fight, Lord Shiva presented him Pashupat Astra.
*Yayaatipur: (Cuttack, Orissa)*
41




Orissa’s present region Jajpur was known as Yayaatipur in the times of Mahabharata. The River Vaitarni flows from near this region. Pandavas, along with Maharshi Lomesh had offered Pind -dan (oblation of cooked rice to the manes- i.e. the spirit of those who are dead) to their ancestors over here. According to an ancient description, Brahmaji had performed ten Ashvamedh Yagya on the banks of River Vaitarni due to which this place became famous as a holy city. Mountains of Mahabharata period.

mahabharata places today - Cities of Mahabharata in the present time

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## mrwarrior006

Even for a moment lets say Harrapa is ancient to Pakistan. Those guys would be sorry to see their sorry state of affairs in present day Pakistan I mean they would be like woooah how the f*ck are we surronded by muslims and why not by our religion what went wrong where did our next generation go etc.......

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## SipahSalar

What is Hinduism about exactly? Like what are the fundamental aspects of Hinduism? Any Hinduism for dummies books around? I know some stuff about christianity and judism since they are our sister faiths but very little about our neighbours.


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## Kabira

mrwarrior006 said:


> Even for a moment lets say Harrapa is ancient to Pakistan. Those guys would be sorry to see their sorry state of affairs in present day Pakistan I mean they would be like woooah how the f*ck are we surronded by muslims and why not by our religion what went wrong where did our next generation go etc.......



I already told you and proved with sources that native Indians follow religion of aryans who were nomadic cattle thieves. They used to steal cattle from dasus/native Indian dravids and distribuite among aryans.

You guys should revert back to ancient religion of Indians, toka moka tribal religion still followed by junglis.

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## Levina

save_ghenda said:


> I already told you and proved with sources that native Indians follow religion of aryans who were nomadic cattle thieves. They used to steal cattle from dasus/native Indian dravids and distribuite among aryans.


wow!
From from where did you come up with that story??
Show me the links and the author.



Horus said:


> Troy is a real geographic point while the story around it is a myth.


I hope you understood the context in which that example (troy along with Harappa) was quoted.


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## Kabira

levina said:


> wow!
> From from where did you come up with that story??
> Show me the links and the author.
> d.



Cattles stealing is main theme of Rig Veda and the reason battle of ten kings was fought between different rig vedic tribes of ancient Pakistan.

[10-048] HYMN XLVIII. Indra Vaikuntha.
2 I, Indra, am Atharvan's stay and firm support: I brought forth kine to Trita from the Dragon's grasp.
I stripped the Dasyus of their manly might, and gave the cattle-stalls to Matarigvan and Dadhyac.


http://www.sanskritweb.net/rigveda/griffith.pdf

dasus used to raise cattle and aryans steal it.

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## Ajai Ghale

@Srinivas

Majority of Mahabharata is related to Ganga Valley like even the core sites like Hastinapur is on the banks of Ganga even Bhishma is called *Gangaputra*


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## Levina

save_ghenda said:


> Cattles stealing is main theme of Rig Veda and the reason battle of ten kings of fought between different rig vedic tribes of ancient Pakistan.
> 
> [10-048] HYMN XLVIII. Indra Vaikuntha.
> 2 I, Indra, am Atharvan's stay and firm support: I brought forth kine to Trita from the Dragon's grasp.
> I stripped the Dasyus of their manly might, and gave the cattle-stalls to Matarigvan and Dadhyac.
> 
> 
> http://www.sanskritweb.net/rigveda/griffith.pdf
> 
> dasus used to raise cattle and aryans steal it.


lol
That is your interpretation of the story.

Btw if the part of rigveda quoted by you is true then so this hymn....

_[05-029] HYMN XXIX. Agni.
10 *One car-wheel of the Sun thou rolledst forward*, and one thou settest free to move for Kutsa.
Thou slewest noseless Dasyus with thy weapon, and in their home o'erthrewest hostile speakers._

_10-022] HYMN XXII. Indra.
8 Around us is the Dasyu, riteless, void of sense,* inhuman, keeping alien laws.*
Baffle, thou Slayer of the foe, the weapon which this Dasa wields.
_

Now please dont tell me that we were fighting intergalactic wars._ 
_

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## Kabira

levina said:


> lol
> That is your interpretation of the story.
> 
> Btw if the part of rigveda quoted by you is true then so this hymn....
> 
> _[05-029] HYMN XXIX. Agni.
> 10 *One car-wheel of the Sun thou rolledst forward*, and one thou settest free to move for Kutsa.
> Thou slewest noseless Dasyus with thy weapon, and in their home o'erthrewest hostile speakers._
> 
> _10-022] HYMN XXII. Indra.
> 8 Around us is the Dasyu, riteless, void of sense,* inhuman, keeping alien laws.*
> Baffle, thou Slayer of the foe, the weapon which this Dasa wields.
> _
> 
> Now please dont tell me that we were fighting intergalactic wars._ _



Bibi you know what alien laws mean, don't miss interpret what RV says. RV is very dear to Pakistanis.

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## Ajai Ghale

save_ghenda said:


> Bibi you know what alien laws mean, don't miss interpret what RV says. RV is very dear to Pakistanis.


Never heard RV mentioned any Abu Talib or Musa

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## Kabira

Ajai Ghale said:


> Never heard RV mentioned any Abu Talib or Musa



toka moka this doesn't concern you.

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## Levina

save_ghenda said:


> Bibi you know what alien laws mean, don't miss interpret what RV says. RV is very dear to Pakistanis.


so be it!
But let me tell you that there is zilch truth in this story....


save_ghenda said:


> I already told you and proved with sources that native Indians follow religion of aryans who were nomadic cattle thieves. They used to steal cattle from dasus/native Indian dravids and distribuite among aryans.



Aryans, if at all existed were the nomads who came and lived in circular huts.They came 500 years after the Sindhu-Saraswati civilisation had shifted its base to Ganga river.

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## Ajai Ghale

save_ghenda said:


> toka moka this doesn't concern you.


Abdul Razzak I am a Jamwal,even Bhishma pitamah would laugh if he heard a mallecha claimed that he read vedas.

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## Levina

Ajai Ghale said:


> Abdul Razzak I am a Jamwal,even Bhishma pitamah would laugh if he heard a mallecha claimed that he read vedas.


who is abdul razzak?

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## Ajai Ghale

save_ghenda said:


> toka moka this doesn't concern you.


Abdul Razzak I am a Jamwal,even Bhishma pitamah would laugh if he heard a mallecha claimed that he read vedas.


levina said:


> who is abdul razzak?


Those who suffered from identity crisis they named themselves according to prevalent Politics,Religion and other factors.

Example

Takhshila (Mauryan times)

Taxila (Greek times)

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## Kabira

Ajai Ghale said:


> Abdul Razzak I am a Jamwal,even Bhishma pitamah would laugh if he heard a mallecha claimed that he read vedas.
> 
> Those who suffered from identity crisis they named themselves according to prevalent Politics,Religion and other factors.
> 
> Example
> 
> Takhshila (Mauryan times)
> 
> Taxila (Greek times)



Beta you are bhil, aryans will cry in grave if they saw dasus claiming to be aryans. 

From Rig Veda

[09-041] HYMN XLI. Soma Pavamana.
1. ACTIVE and bright have they come forth, impetuous in speed like bulls,
Driving the black skin far away.



levina said:


> so be it!
> But let me tell you that there is zilch truth in this story....
> 
> 
> Aryans, if at all existed were the nomads who came and lived in circular huts.They came 500 years after the Sindhu-Saraswati civilisation had shifted its base to Ganga river.
> View attachment 225632



Aryans if existed? blasphemy! Bibi you should be careful what you say. They came, they stole cattle. Remember even nomadic life style was way superior to Indians at that time. Only ancient Pakistanis in IVC were civilized.

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## Ajai Ghale

save_ghenda said:


> Beta you are bhil, aryans will cry in grave if they saw dasus claiming to be aryans.
> 
> From Rig Veda
> 
> [09-041] HYMN XLI. Soma Pavamana.
> 1. ACTIVE and bright have they come forth, impetuous in speed like bulls,
> Driving the black skin far away.
> 
> 
> 
> Aryans if existed? blasphemy! Bibi you should be careful what you say. They came, they stole cattle. Remember even nomadic life style was way superior to Indians at that time. Only ancient Pakistanis in IVC were civilized.


Don't feel bad if I misquoted your name sorry are your Tahir or Khalid Masih ? 

And if you were not low born Bhangi convert I would have invited you to show ancient Mahabharata sites.

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## Icewolf

Why are Indians Dravidians from Australia acting like they are Aryan?

The world will never know


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## Viva India

Ajai Ghale said:


> IMO he already slayed mallecha dasyus of IVCs those who are left converted to other alien belief system.
> 
> If you are interested we can arrange a shuddhi program and accord you your shudra status but if your are racially greek (yavan)or Arab then you will be accorded status lower than shudra.
> 
> Your choice ?


No we can't we are supposed to be 100 metre away from them let alone Shuddhi wait does he even know what shudhhi is

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## Kabira

Ajai Ghale said:


> IMO he already slayed mallecha dasyus of IVCs those who are left converted to other alien belief system.
> 
> If you are interested we can arrange a shuddhi program and accord you your shudra status but if your are racially greek (yavan)or Arab then you will be accorded status lower than shudra.
> 
> Your choice ?



Its embarrassing when Indians claim to be aryans, only Kalash people are true aryans. Not only they follow true aryan religion but also look like them. Imagine if Indra visited today to see their aryan followers, he will be dismayed at hindus. And may even slaughter all of you considering how racist he is in Rig Veda. 

Its mind baffling why any black person would follow aryan imposed religion, in which they proudly talk about killing black skinned savages.  Islam is only way forward for all of you.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

save_ghenda said:


> Its embarrassing when Indians claim to be aryans, only Kalash people are true aryans. Not only they follow true aryan religion but also look like them. Imagine if Indra visited today to see their aryan followers, he will be dismayed at hindus. And may even slaughter all of you considering how racist he is in Rig Veda.
> 
> Its mind baffling why any black person would follow aryan imposed religion, in which they proudly talk about killing black skinned savages.  Islam is only way forward for all of you.




The dusky brood away..lol


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## Ajai Ghale

save_ghenda said:


> Its embarrassing when Indians claim to be aryans, only Kalash people are true aryans. Not only they follow true aryan religion but also look like them. Imagine if Indra visited today to see their aryan followers, he will be dismayed at hindus. And may even slaughter all of you considering how racist he is in Rig Veda.
> 
> Its mind baffling why any black person would follow aryan imposed religion, in which they proudly talk about killing black skinned savages.





Viva India said:


> No we can't we are supposed to be 100 metre away from them let alone Shuddhi wait does he even know what shudhhi is


Dude Now Mahabharata wait for sometime when some Tariq Qureshi the Butcher claim Ram as his ancestors. 

Look My Bhangi friend I am a Jamwal from Himachal unlike you my ancestors were not came from Arab neither they were kushan from Tarim basin.... On the other hand you don't even have family tree of even 200 years,so why don't you go to Hajj and find your roots in khurasan.

And leave Ganga putra Bhishma and Hastinapur alone.

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## Levina

save_ghenda said:


> Only ancient Pakistanis in IVC were civilized


This line shows your limited knowledge about Sindhu-Saraswati civilisation.
And why is it that you call it Indus, which is a name coined by foreigners???
And just in case you didn't know, there were civilised ppl as far as Deccan during the mature Harappan period.
Do you have any knowledge about the SSC cities?? Or how they were built???
Any knowledge of PGW??? (painted grey ware)



save_ghenda said:


> Now I get it why Rig Veda is hardly given importance among hindus


Do you want me to cherry pick something from your religious text??
Don't push me to the wall.
@Irfan Baloch @waz @Emmie
This guy has been constantly misquoting hymns from Hindu religious texts.



save_ghenda said:


> [01-100] HYMN C. Indra.
> The mighty Thunderer with his fair-complexioned friends won the land, the sunlight, and the waters. Rig Veda

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## Kabira

levina said:


> This line shows your limited knowledge about Sindhu-Saraswati civilisation.
> And why is it that you call it Indus, which is a name coined by foreigners???
> And just in case you didn't know, there were civilised ppl as far as Deccan during the mature Harappan period.
> 
> 
> Do you want me to cherry pick something from your religion???
> @Irfan Baloch @waz @Emmie
> This guy has been constantly misquoting hymns from my religion.



Quotes from Rig Veda not your religion, with source.

http://www.sanskritweb.net/rigveda/griffith.pdf


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## Levina

save_ghenda said:


> Quotes from Rig Veda not your religion, with source.


Rig Veda belongs to Hindus and you've confessed it yourself.....


save_ghenda said:


> Now I get it why Rig Veda is hardly given importance among hindus

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## Kabira

levina said:


> Rig Veda belongs to Hindus and you've confessed it yourself.....



I understand why RV is never given importance despite being original aryan text. Not that it belong to hindus. RV is not religious book.


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## Levina

save_ghenda said:


> I understand why RV is never given importance despite being original aryan text. Not that it belong to hindus. RV is not religious book.


1) I would not indulge in religious debate beyond this point as it is against the forum rules.
2) Rig Veda is counted as one of the four canonical sacred texts (Sruti) of Hinduism.
3) Most of the Hindu texts, be it Rig Vedas, or Bhagwad Gita, are about Dharma, karma, and Jnana; just about anyone can refer them.

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## Kabira

levina said:


> 1) I would not indulge in religious debate beyond this point as it is against the forum rules.
> 2) Rig Veda is counted as one of the four canonical sacred texts (Sruti) of Hinduism.
> 3) Most of the Hindu texts, be it Rig Vedas, or Bhagwad Gita, are about Dharma, karma, and Jnana; just about anyone can refer them.



Ok case closed.


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## halupridol

In megabharata,,,there is mention of a kingdom MahaPind,,land of martial ppl,

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## scionoftheindus

save_ghenda said:


> Beta you are bhil, aryans will cry in grave if they saw dasus claiming to be aryans.
> 
> From Rig Veda
> 
> [09-041] HYMN XLI. Soma Pavamana.
> 1. ACTIVE and bright have they come forth, impetuous in speed like bulls,
> Driving the black skin far away.
> 
> 
> 
> Aryans if existed? blasphemy! Bibi you should be careful what you say. They came, they stole cattle. Remember even nomadic life style was way superior to Indians at that time. Only ancient Pakistanis in IVC were civilized.


Not ivc you better use the term sindhu saraswati civilisation.


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## scionoftheindus

Ajai Ghale said:


> In fact even today there was a yazna in shimla praying for Rain which is related to Indra.
> 
> But we keep pasha and Gaffor away from it as they are Mallecha.


Pasha and gaffoorrofl

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## Pulsar

Alpha BeeTee said:


> Buhahahaa..
> Man u're one genuine troll :-D


And you're a genuine moron as you answered my question by calling me a troll! That's because you have no answers.


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## Rajesh12379

Horus said:


> Mahabaharat = Ancient Game of Thrones. Its a work of fiction, not an authentic historic document.



Yes, but Djinns do exist, the sun does set in muddy waters and the Satan does sit behind your ears.

No fiction about that.


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## ZooZoo

Horus said:


> Mahabaharat = Ancient Game of Thrones. Its a work of fiction, not an authentic historic document.




So does Koran, Bible and other books...

The Mahabharata has 1 Lakh hymn/Shlokas, where as Jayam has only 8800. Mahabharata is derived from Jayam.. So it may be possible that the epic was added with new verses based on imagination... 

It may be possible somthing like this would have happen.. Need research.. 

At least three redactions of the text are commonly recognized: _Jaya_ (Victory) with* 8,800* verses attributed to Vyasa, _Bharata_ with 24,000 verses as recited by Vaisampayana, and finally the _Mahabharata_ as recited by Ugrasrava Sauti with over *100,000* verses.


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## Rajesh12379

Atanz said:


> I think you don't know where I stand with religion ....
> What has age got to with this...
> Shall parrot you as a teenager ?
> 
> Edit: I *never use religion* to rationalize anything least of all history or any other temporal subject. You indian's regularly use religion to as a basis of history thus you open it to debate. You will regularly use Hinduism as a tool to claim IVC or remind us we were 'Indian' on account of our ancestors apparently being 'Hindu'.



You are just another stage-2 here. There have been others on the past and there will be more in future. I will quote something from elsewhere on this forum.



> *I somehow see the current thread as stage two in a three stage evolution of Pakistani thinking. This is a bit over simplified obviously.*
> 
> *Stage 1: Totally dissociate from the past. call it Jahiliyah.* Don't even accept that you are native to the land. Call yourself Arab origin etc. Basically totally dissociate from your pre-conversion identity. Hate others who shared that identity with you.
> 
> *Stage 2: Start to discover your pre-Islamic identity but violently deny that you share that with any non-Muslims. Try to claim that exclusively.* This is still limited to a very small section of the population. Most folks are in stage 1.
> 
> *Stage 3: Be totally comfortable with your Muslim identity as well as with your pre-Islamic history. No problem in accepting that the ancient history is a shared heritage and being able to take pride in it without necessarily having to first appropriate that exclusively.* this stage has even lesser people than stage 2. But there are some who are here and many of the stage 2 people can gradually progress to this with a little more broadening of their horizons.





> And a little digression here.
> 
> *What is more important to the Pakistani friends here?
> 
> To have pride in their ancient history and accept it and get it accepted by the country at large by giving its due place in history books, national discourse etc.
> 
> OR
> 
> First making sure that this history is identified as an exclusively Pakistani history with no links to India whatsoever.*
> 
> Sadly I see most people (certainly one honorable member with a lot of prejudices included) more interested in the 2nd part. It gives the feeling that more than actually being interested in any ancient history some people just want to make sure that it is denied to India.
> 
> While I am sure such an effort just can not succeed (because I don't think it really has legs to stand on. The ancient history is not nearly as cut and dry as the 60 years old Radcliffe line), it would be good to see some members trying to honestly discover the answers instead of coming through as the know-alls they pretend to be.



All your posts on "ancient Pakistani history" can be explained by stage-2 thinking. Objectivity is not a strong suit of such people.


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## scionoftheindus

save_ghenda said:


> [01-100] HYMN C. Indra.
> The mighty Thunderer with his fair-complexioned friends won the land, the sunlight, and the waters. Rig Veda
> 
> lmao  Now I get it why Rig Veda is hardly given importance among hindus.


Who are the dusky brood who were driven away by Aryans?weren't they the natives of present day Pakistan and people of Sindhi saraswati civilisation?If what you say is true (Pakistanis are for complexioned Aryans and indians are dark skinned dravidians)you people will not have even an iota of right over SSC..it entirely belongs to Indians who were driven to east.

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## Force-India

Pakistani now claiming to be a part of Indian religions

Pakistani now claiming to be a part of Indian religions

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## Masoom_Darinda

Horus said:


> Quran, Bible (Both new and Old Test), Geeta, Granth Sahib, and recently the Book of Mormon. Blessing of being quad lingual is that i can read them with good understanding.



Dear Horus,
Could you please give me a link to download Rig Veda, Ramanaya and Mahabahat in easy language. I am very intersted in mythology but havent been able to find them in easy to understand language, all those I found were very confusing.
thanks in advance.


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## ghoul

Daradas seem to be the "Dards" or "dardic" peoples of northern Pakistan, like Shinas, Kohistanis, Kalaash etc. Also I wonder what the borders of Gandhara were.



nForce said:


> There is nothing called Pakistani kingdom. The idea came into existence some 85 years ago and the country was created 68 years ago. After the creation of the country, the leaders pretended to be Arabs and Afghans and Turks. There is no connection between the history of the land and the state of Pakistan.



You're right. There was no Pakistan 67 years ago. Before that we were Punjab, Sindh(called Hind by the Arabs), Pakhtunkhwa, Balochistan, Gandhara, Gilgit-Baltistan, Kashmir etc, which together form the "Indus states". Pakistan is an amalgamation of all the trans-Indus states. And no offense, but the peoples of Pakistan are ethnically, linguistically and even racially for the most part are different from majority of Indians.

And lol at the Arab, Afghan, Turk comment. Name one leader of Pakistan who claimed an Arab, Afghan or Turkish descent.

And btw, the ethnic Punjabis were called "bahlikas" in Indian sources. They were said to have abandoned "dharam" and, according to some, the rigidity of caste system.



Ajai Ghale said:


> Indians should not demean Hindu Mythology by mentioning the connection with present day Pakistan as we have nothing in common with present day Pakistanis as they are more close with Arabs both culturally and Racially as many Pakistani thinks of themselves as Arab Descent.



Yes we are Arabs and you guys are Scythians, white huns, Kushans etc. I once read an Indian author linking south Indian Bunts with ancient Spartans.


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## nForce

ghoul said:


> You're right. There was no Pakistan 67 years ago. Before that we were Punjab, Sindh(called Hind by the Arabs), Pakhtunkhwa, Balochistan, Gandhara, Gilgit-Baltistan, Kashmir etc, which together form the "Indus states". Pakistan is an amalgamation of all the trans-Indus states. And no offense, but the peoples of Pakistan are ethnically, linguistically and even racially for the most part are different from majority of Indians.
> 
> *And lol at the Arab, Afghan, Turk comment. Name one leader of Pakistan who claimed an Arab, Afghan or Turkish descent.*



Isn't the propensity quite apparent from the naming of the weapons ?

See, my point is, one cannot simply cherry-pick when it comes to history. One cannot simply say I'm equivalent to Abdalis during the day and "_khada peeta wahy da, baqi Ahmad Shahe da_" during the night.

The leaders of Pakistan made that choice, now one should stick to that.


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## Rajesh12379

ghoul said:


> Daradas seem to be the "Dards" or "dardic" peoples of northern Pakistan, like Shinas, Kohistanis, Kalaash etc. Also I wonder what the borders of Gandhara were.
> 
> 
> 
> You're right. There was no Pakistan 67 years ago. Before that we were Punjab, Sindh(called Hind by the Arabs), Pakhtunkhwa, Balochistan, Gandhara, Gilgit-Baltistan, Kashmir etc, which together form the "Indus states". Pakistan is an amalgamation of all the trans-Indus states. And no offense, but the peoples of Pakistan are ethnically, linguistically and even racially for the most part are different from majority of Indians.
> 
> And lol at the Arab, Afghan, Turk comment. *Name one leader of Pakistan who claimed an Arab, Afghan or Turkish descent.*
> 
> And btw, the ethnic Punjabis were called "bahlikas" in Indian sources. They were said to have abandoned "dharam" and, according to some, the rigidity of caste system.



Actually most of them. Musharraf claims to be a Syed in his book. Sharif would be another Syed. Your Ex-PM Gilani is supposedly of Persian origin, Zia was Arain and supposed Arab origin.

In fact, all the "Ashraf Muslims" are supposed to be invaders and the local converts are "Ajlaf musallahs" and they are looked down upon by the Ashrafs.

You are right in a way that the areas now called Pakistan had become a neglected and insignificant part of the Dharmic civilization a long time back, as long as at the time of Ramayana and Mahabharata.


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## ghoul

nForce said:


> Isn't the propensity quite apparent from the naming of the weapons ?
> 
> See, my point is, one cannot simply cherry-pick when it comes to history. One cannot simply say I'm equivalent to Abdalis during the day and "_khada peeta wahy da, baqi Ahmad Shahe da_" during the night.
> 
> The leaders of Pakistan made that choice, now one should stick to that.



We do have c*****a people among our midst, and most of these retarded missile names were given by people like Abdul Qadir Khan, the biggest pos in my opinion.

And let me let you in on a little secret. Most "lower caste" converted tribes now claim a foreign origin. For example, mussalis, chamars, chuhras, etc who are thought to be descended from pre-Islamic dalit clans often use the surname "Qureshi" once they become rich. When they are not claiming an Arab origin, they use Rajput and Jatt surnames like "Gill", "Bhatti" etc. With that being said, most Pakistani do not claim an Arabic origin. Most of us from the Indo-Aryan speaking regions of Pakistan are Jatts, Gujjars, Rajputs, Tarkhans etc. Even Khatri converts, who use the Arabic title "Sheikh" now, proudly own their Khatri lineage.



Rajesh12379 said:


> Actually most of them. Musharraf claims to be a Syed in his book. Sharif would be another Syed. Your Ex-PM Gilani is supposedly of Persian origin, Zia was Arain and supposed Arab origin.
> 
> In fact, all the "Ashraf Muslims" are supposed to be invaders and the local converts are "Ajlaf musallahs" and they are looked down upon by the Ashrafs.
> 
> You are right in a way that the areas now called Pakistan had become a neglected and insignificant part of the Dharmic civilization a long time back, as long as at the time of Ramayana and Mahabharata.



There's no Ashraf or Ajlaf concept in Pakistan. It's a concept among Indian muslims only. We are still what we were before conversion for the most part. For example, where I'm from, what you call "Ashrafs" are, I dare say, the muslim Rajputs and Gakhars.

As for Geelani, he really is a Syed, what's wrong with that? Sufi missionaries, who were mostly Syed, have migrated to places around the world for years now. Gillani has a Syed origin, but he calls himself "Saraiki", not Arab. You have thousands of Syeds in Sindh as well, but that doesn't stop the local Sindhis from claiming using their "samma" surnames. Some of the sammas are feudal landowners.


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## Rajesh12379

ghoul said:


> *There's no Ashraf or Ajlaf concept in Pakistan.* It's a concept among Indian muslims only. We are still what we were before conversion for the most part. For example, where I'm from, what you call "Ashrafs" are, I dare say, the muslim Rajputs and Gakhars.
> 
> As for Geelani, he really is a Syed, what's wrong with that? Sufi missionaries, who were mostly Syed, have migrated to places around the world for years now. Gillani has a Syed origin, but he calls himself "Saraiki", not Arab. You have thousands of Syeds in Sindh as well, but that doesn't stop the local Sindhis from claiming using their "samma" surnames. Some of the sammas are feudal landowners.



The highlighted part is not true. The reason so many Muslim converts in Pakistan claim to be of foreign origin in because it is supposed to give them a higher status is society. Caste and Ashraf/Ajlaf/Arjal issues are very much a reality of Pakistan.

https :// reddiarypk.wordpress.co* /2009/08/25/caste-in-pakistan/

Anyway, let's not go too deep into this particular issue here. May be some other time in a more appropriate topic.


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## Ajai Ghale

ghoul said:


> Daradas seem to be the "Dards" or "dardic" peoples of northern Pakistan, like Shinas, Kohistanis, Kalaash etc. Also I wonder what the borders of Gandhara were.
> 
> 
> 
> You're right. There was no Pakistan 67 years ago. Before that we were Punjab, Sindh(called Hind by the Arabs), Pakhtunkhwa, Balochistan, Gandhara, Gilgit-Baltistan, Kashmir etc, which together form the "Indus states". Pakistan is an amalgamation of all the trans-Indus states. And no offense, but the peoples of Pakistan are ethnically, linguistically and even racially for the most part are different from majority of Indians.
> 
> And lol at the Arab, Afghan, Turk comment. Name one leader of Pakistan who claimed an Arab, Afghan or Turkish descent.
> 
> And btw, the ethnic Punjabis were called "bahlikas" in Indian sources. They were said to have abandoned "dharam" and, according to some, the rigidity of caste system.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we are Arabs and you guys are Scythians, white huns, Kushans etc. I once read an Indian author linking south Indian Bunts with ancient Spartans.


My Tahir "the Plumber" friend ,I a am Jamwal from Himachal and since when Himachal and Uttarakhand was colonized by scythians.

You should stick with your sindbad Jahaji,Ali baba and Marjina and don't bother about Arjun and Bhishma.

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## ghoul

Ajai Ghale said:


> My Tahir "the Plumber" friend ,I a am Jamwal from Himachal and since when Himachal and Uttarakhand was colonized by scythians.
> 
> You should stick with your sindbad Jahaji,Ali baba and Marjina and don't bother about Arjun and Bhishma.



I didn't know there were Jamwals in Himachal. One of the biggest rajput clans in my homeland, Potohar, is the Minhas clan, which claims descent from the Jamwals of Jammu. The first muslim general of British Indian army and the first victoria cross were both Minhas Rajputs from the Chakwal district of Potohar.

Khudadad Khan, first victoria cross from South Asia:






General Iftikhar Khan, the first general in British Indian army:





Raja Pervaiz Ashraf, the ex-PM of Pakistan, also belongs to the Minhaas clan from Gujjar Khan:
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





PS: Somehow I doubt you're a Dogra. I bet you're some south Indian or something pretending to be a Dogra.

PS PS: And Scythians only colonized Punjab region around Sialkot(Sakala) lol. They didn't go to Uttarkhand or something. Now I'm convinced you're from Uttarkhand claiming to be a Dogra. Dogras are not related to the Uttarkhand people, who are genetically just chamars mixed with east Asians.

And if you were a Jamwal, then you'd know that among rajputs, only the agnikula sept is thought to have sprung from Scythians etc. Jamwals are not agnikula. A failed lying troll is a fail lying troll.


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## scionoftheindus

ghoul said:


> I didn't know there were Jamwals in Himachal. One of the biggest rajput clans in my homeland, Potohar, is the Minhas clan, which claims descent from the Jamwals of Jammu. The first muslim general of British Indian army and the first victoria cross were both Minhas Rajputs from the Chakwal district of Potohar.
> 
> Khudadad Khan, first victoria cross from South Asia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> General Iftikhar Khan, the first general in British Indian army:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Raja Pervaiz Ashraf, the ex-PM of Pakistan, also belongs to the Minhaas clan from Gujjar Khan:
> 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
> 
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> 
> PS: Somehow I doubt you're a Dogra. I bet you're some south Indian or something pretending to be a Dogra.
> 
> PS PS: And Scythians only colonized Punjab region around Sialkot(Sakala) lol. They didn't go to Uttarkhand or something. Now I'm convinced you're from Uttarkhand claiming to be a Dogra. Dogras are not related to the Uttarkhand people, who are genetically just chamars mixed with east Asians.
> 
> And if you were a Jamwal, then you'd know that among rajputs, only the agnikula sept is thought to have sprung from Scythians etc. Jamwals are not agnikula. A failed lying troll is a fail lying troll.


Man I see you always present on PDF..if you don't mind ,can you tell me if you go to college or office?
I admire your knowledge of history.

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## Rajesh12379

Ajai Ghale said:


> My Tahir "the Plumber" friend ,I a am Jamwal from Himachal and since when Himachal and Uttarakhand was colonized by scythians.
> 
> You should stick with your sindbad Jahaji,Ali baba and Marjina and don't bother about Arjun and Bhishma.



I have another friend who is a Jamwal from Himachal.

Seems some Pakistanis while having a lot of interest in the topic of ethnicity, have very less real knowledge of the same, especially for Indian population.

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## Ajai Ghale

ghoul said:


> I didn't know there were Jamwals in Himachal. One of the biggest rajput clans in my homeland, Potohar, is the Minhas clan, which claims descent from the Jamwals of Jammu. The first muslim general of British Indian army and the first victoria cross were both Minhas Rajputs from the Chakwal district of Potohar.
> 
> Khudadad Khan, first victoria cross from South Asia:
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> General Iftikhar Khan, the first general in British Indian army:
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> 
> Raja Pervaiz Ashraf, the ex-PM of Pakistan, also belongs to the Minhaas clan from Gujjar Khan:
> 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
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Somehow I doubt you're a Dogra. I bet you're some south Indian or something pretending to be a Dogra.
> 
> PS PS: And Scythians only colonized Punjab region around Sialkot(Sakala) lol. They didn't go to Uttarkhand or something. Now I'm convinced you're from Uttarkhand claiming to be a Dogra. Dogras are not related to the Uttarkhand people, who are genetically just chamars mixed with east Asians.
> 
> And if you were a Jamwal, then you'd know that among rajputs, only the agnikula sept is thought to have sprung from Scythians etc. Jamwals are not agnikula. A failed lying troll is a fail lying troll.


Potohar my Arse,You are Shudra Mallacha we don't consider you Muslims as Rajputs and why are you showing me the pics of converts of unknown origin,I can give you so many example of shudras who were given KHAN title even during the time of Sultanate.

My ancestors were allotted the land in Himachal even before 1947 as they were in the service of Dogra and Katoch rulers.

And compare the list of Number of Victoria cross won by Hindus and Muslims including the second VC was Negi Rajput you should know them as they refused to fire on Muslims in Peshawar.

These are jamwals










P.S: why don't you share your personal pic with me then we decide the difference with Mix Race potohari and a Jamwal.



Rajesh12379 said:


> I have another friend who is a Jamwal from Himachal.
> 
> Seems some Pakistanis while having a lot of interest in the topic of ethnicity, have very less real knowledge of the same, especially for Indian population.


Which place in Himachal there are many jamwals in kangra and chamba district.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Rajesh12379

Ajai Ghale said:


> Which place in Himachal there are many jamwals in kangra and chamba district.



I think it is Kangra though I don't recall 100%.


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## Kabira

scionoftheindus said:


> Who are the dusky brood who were driven away by Aryans?weren't they the natives of present day Pakistan and people of Sindhi saraswati civilisation?If what you say is true (Pakistanis are for complexioned Aryans and indians are dark skinned dravidians)you people will not have even an iota of right over SSC..it entirely belongs to Indians who were driven to east.



You are not getting it do yo mallu? Aryans were nomadic while ancient Pakistanis used to live in cities of IVC. Kalash people were aryans, after imposing their religion on_ Indian_s in Gangustan, they left and started to live in hindu kush. Till this day they have maintained their aryan life style and religion.

Pakistanis are not aryans, we are indigenous people of Mehrgarh.



ghoul said:


> Yes we are Arabs and you guys are Scythians, white huns, Kushans etc. I once read an Indian author linking south Indian Bunts with ancient Spartans.



In every forum these Indians claim to be white huns, kushans, scytians, aryans  And then come here and are shocked that no one among us is claiming to be arab or persian as they wished. 



Ajai Ghale said:


> Potohar my Arse,You are Shudra Mallacha we don't consider you Muslims as Rajputs and why are you showing me the pics of converts of unknown origin,I can give you so many example of shudras who were given KHAN title even during the time of Sultanate.
> 
> My ancestors were allotted the land in Himachal even before 1947 as they were in the service of Dogra and Katoch rulers.
> 
> And compare the list of Number of Victoria cross won by Hindus and Muslims including the second VC was Negi Rajput you should know them as they refused to fire on Muslims in Peshawar.
> 
> These are jamwals
> View attachment 225764
> 
> View attachment 225765
> 
> 
> 
> P.S: why don't you share your personal pic with me then we decide the difference with Mix Race potohari and a Jamwal.
> 
> 
> Which place in Himachal there are many jamwals in kangra and chamba district.



Its getting boring watching all these pictures again and again. You are son of mongols/indians, end result nepali looks, height barely over 5'0, very temid look. Look at pictures you posted.

Dogra regiment






Pak army











No comparison what so ever between you and sons from mehrgarh. They will eat dogra regiment alive.


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## Rajesh12379

save_ghenda said:


> Its getting boring watching all these pictures again and again. You are son of mongols/indians, end result nepali looks, height barely over 5'0, very temid look. Look at pictures you posted.
> 
> Dogra regiment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pak army
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No comparison what so ever between you and sons from mehrgarh. They will eat dogra regiment alive.




Yet this is what happened the last time. They didn't even fight when the opponents were not unarmed civilians and women.

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## Centrist

Srinivas said:


> *Kurukshetra: (Ambala, Punjab, now Haryana)*
> 9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Famous as the battlefield of the war of Mahabharata, Kurukshetra is situated forty kilometers to the East of Ambala city. In ancient times, Brahmaji had organized a yagya here. That time this was an extensive land area. In those days it was known as the altar for sacrifice of Lord Brahma. Lord Krishna had revealed the sermon of Gita before the war of Mahabharata at this place. Today a lake named Brahma Sarovar here is very famous for its glory. At the time of a Solar eclipse pilgrims from distant places come here to take a dip in this lake. According to the Bhagwat, before the war of Mahabharata, Lord Krishna along with other members of Yaduvansh had come here for a dip in the Brahmakund.
> *Hastinapur: (near Meerut, Uttar Pradesh)*
> 10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hastinapur, located near Meerut in Uttar Pradesh was the grand city of Mahabharata time. This was the capital of the Kauravas and the Pandavas. Hastinapur has witnessed many famous incidences described in Mahabharata. Here, Yudhishthir lost his brothers and Draupadi along with his wealth in the game of gamble. Krishna had visited the court of Dhritrashtra being a peace messenger of the Pandavas. Before the birth of the Pandavas and Kauravas, Bhisma had taken an oath here to not to marry in life and let go of his right to the throne as his father Shantanu wanted to marry a boatman’s daughter Satyavati. After winning the war of Mahabharata, Pandavas made Hastinapur as their capital.
> *Varnavat: (Near Meerut, Uttarpradesh)*
> 11
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a city located near Meerut in Uttarpradesh as described in Mahabharata. It was here that Duryodhan had built a Lakshgriha (wax house) to kill the Pandavas. This city is situated on the banks of River Ganga. To avoid the war of Mahabharata, Pandavas had asked for five villages from the Kauravas, Varnavat was one of these five cities. Even today there is a small village here named Barnava which reminds one of the Mahabharata periods.
> *Panchal Pradesh: (near Himalayas, Uttar Pradesh)*
> 12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As mentioned in Mahabharata, Panchal Pradesh was located between the Himalayas and the River Chamba on both sides of the River Ganga. Once when the King of Panchal got the news of an attack from the King of Ayodhya, he said that his five (panch) sons only were enough to fight the war. Since then it was called “Panchal”. During the time of Mahabharata half of Panchal was owned by King Drupad and the other half was owned by Dronacharya. Draupadi was daughter of the King Drupad and married to Arjun after he won over her in the Swayamvar. Draupadi was named “Panchali” as she was the princess of Panchal.
> *Indraprastha: (South of present day New Delhi):*
> 13
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indraprastha was a grand city situated on the South of present day New Delhi. The Pandavas had established this city after destroying Khandav Van (forest). Vishwakarma, the architect of the devtas (deities) had designed this city. This city was the capital of the Pandavas. Even today, there is a small town named Indraprastha which reminds of the ancient town Indraprastha.
> *Vrindavan: (Mathura, Uttarpradesh)*
> 14
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vrindavan is situated ten kilometers away from Mathura in Uttarpradesh. Vrinda had observed penance here to attain Krishna, since then this place is known as Vrindavan. Vrindavan is the place of Lord Krishna’s Bal- leelayen (playful acts done in childhood). Lord Krishna had played Rasleela with the gopis in Vrindavan. Even today Rasleela is the main attraction of this place. There are many famous temples here, of which the temple of Bankebihari and Radhavallabh is very famous. The only events held here are the Shringar (ornamenting) on Sharad Purnima (full moon day of Ashvin- October or November) and Aarti (praying God with a lighted lamp) on Krishna Janmashtami.
> *Gokul: (Uttar Pradesh)*
> 15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gokul is situated on the banks of River Yamuna, eight kilometers away from Mathura. To protect Krishna from Kans, Vasudev had left Krishna at his friend Nandrai’s house in Gokul. Krishna and his elder brother Balram were brought up in Gokul. Shri Krishna revealed the sermon of Gita to Arjun before the war of Mahabharata and became Arjun’s charioteer during the war. Balram taught the art of mace fight to Bhima and Duryodhan.
> *Barsana: (Uttar Pradesh)*
> 16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barsana, 21 km from Govardhan Mountain, has four hilltops that represent the four faces of Brahma the Creator. Each hilltop is associated with some incident from Krishna's life. On Mor Kutir top, he danced guised as a peacock to win the love of Radha. Radha’s parents lived in Barsana. The house of Radha's father is atop the Brahma Hill in Barsana. On this site is the Larily Lal (an endearing name for Radha) temple.



Good, informative posts !! Although we know these details, placing the locations in map, gives added insight. Have to thank @save_ghenda for starting this topic.


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## Kabira

Ancient Pakistani Gandhara kingdom which extended from Islamabad/Taxila to Jalalabad.






Ancient Pakistani kingdom Madra

*Madra Culture*
In the epic, the Madra culture is described to be different from the Vedic culture, prevailed in kingdoms of the Gangetic plain like the Kurus and Panchalas. Brahmins had less influence there. Women enjoyed more freedom. They ate cakes of barley mixed with meat, including beef, which was taboo in Kuru and Panchala. Vedic religious rites were less practiced, and castism based on the four castes (Brahmana, Kshatriya, Vaisya and Shudra) was less rigid. Hence the Kuru, Panchalas considered them to be degraded Kshatriyas.[_citation needed_]


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## mrwarrior006

Lol from when did what ever you told became the actual proof of World History


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## Srinivas

every thread is ruined by racists nature of posters here

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## Rajesh12379

me_itsme said:


> Some delusions some of the Pakistanis live with, *it is so pitiful to have an identity crisis. damn!! *Get well soon guys.



Yes, it is pitiful.

So you see the plethora of "history" threads here and elsewhere.

Inhone history ko mashq kiya hai, history inhe mashq kar rahi hai.

By the way, one (probably unintended) side effect of the identity crisis and the funny history taught to them is the hilarious gems that you see from many of them.

Like on this thread.


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## Kabira

Ancient Pakistani Kekeya kingdom

*Kekeya* (also known as Kekaya, Kaikaya, Kaikeya etc.) is a kingdom grouped among the western kingdoms in the epic Mahabharata. The location of the ancient kingdom is approximately near Toba Tek Singh in modern Pakistan. The epic Ramayana also mentions Kekeya as a western kingdom. One of the wives of Dasaratha, the king of Kosala and father of Raghava Rama, was from Kekeya kingdom and was known as Kaikeyi. Her son Bharata conquered the neighbouring kingdom of Gandhara and built the city of Takshasila. Later the sons and descendants of Bharata ruled this region from Takshasila.

In Mahabharata, *five Kekaya princes* were mentioned, who joined the Pandavas in Kurukshetra War. The eldest of them was described as a king and was known as *Vrihatkshatra*. These Kekaya brothers were also banished from their kingdom by their own kinsmen, like the Pandavas who were bansished from their Kuru Kingdom, by their cousin brothers viz the Kauravas headed by Duryodhana. Thus these Kekaya brothers were circumstantially inclined to ally with the Pandavas. Besides this, the Kekaya brothers were sons of the sister of Kunti, the mother of Pandavas, making them cousins. In Kurukshetra War, the Kekaya brothers fought against their own kinsmen, viz the other Kekaya brothers who sided with Duryodhana.

This is the map I found of Kekeya

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## Rajesh12379

Horus said:


> No one is bringing religion into it. Mahabharata is not a religious book, its an accumulation of stories and myths, this is why its called an 'epic' to begin with.



Its not for the converts and apostates to decide what is our religious book.

As I said, you may continue believing that angels curse a woman all night if she doesn't satisfy the husband at night. Or the horse flew that night.

That is your faith.

Leave ours to us.


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## Kabira

Rajesh12379 said:


> Yes, it is pitiful.
> 
> So you see the plethora of "history" threads here and elsewhere.
> 
> Inhone history ko mashq kiya hai, history inhe mashq kar rahi hai.
> 
> By the way, one (probably unintended) side effect of the identity crisis and the funny history taught to them is the hilarious gems that you see from many of them.
> 
> Like on this thread.



I wonder which banned user you are? Can't get away from PDF can you?  pathetic



Rajesh12379 said:


> Its not for the converts and apostates to decide what is our religious book.
> 
> As I said, you may continue believing that angels curse a woman all night if she doesn't satisfy the husband at night. Or the horse flew that night.
> 
> That is your faith.
> 
> Leave ours to us.



leave pdf shush, other wise I will call Indra once again to drove you far away.


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## Srinivas

_*Regarding your signature, Ancient India is not like that where fair skinned people hated dark skinned people.

In Mahabharata Krishna fights Indra and also reminds him who he was. Indra backs down during the episode of Govardhana Giri.

Indra is king of Devas but the dark skinned Krishna/Rama and Shiva are elevated to the status of one Supreme GOD by the Brahmins.

This proves the mix that happened thousands of years ago.

Knowledge, Intelligence and Culture is not the property of one race.*_



save_ghenda said:


> Ancient Pakistani Kekeya kingdom
> 
> *Kekeya* (also known as Kekaya, Kaikaya, Kaikeya etc.) is a kingdom grouped among the western kingdoms in the epic Mahabharata. The location of the ancient kingdom is approximately near Toba Tek Singh in modern Pakistan. The epic Ramayana also mentions Kekeya as a western kingdom. One of the wives of Dasaratha, the king of Kosala and father of Raghava Rama, was from Kekeya kingdom and was known as Kaikeyi. Her son Bharata conquered the neighbouring kingdom of Gandhara and built the city of Takshasila. Later the sons and descendants of Bharata ruled this region from Takshasila.
> 
> In Mahabharata, *five Kekaya princes* were mentioned, who joined the Pandavas in Kurukshetra War. The eldest of them was described as a king and was known as *Vrihatkshatra*. These Kekaya brothers were also banished from their kingdom by their own kinsmen, like the Pandavas who were bansished from their Kuru Kingdom, by their cousin brothers viz the Kauravas headed by Duryodhana. Thus these Kekaya brothers were circumstantially inclined to ally with the Pandavas. Besides this, the Kekaya brothers were sons of the sister of Kunti, the mother of Pandavas, making them cousins. In Kurukshetra War, the Kekaya brothers fought against their own kinsmen, viz the other Kekaya brothers who sided with Duryodhana.
> 
> This is the map I found of Kekeya


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## Rajesh12379

save_ghenda said:


> I wonder which banned user you are? Can't get away from PDF can you?  pathetic
> 
> leave pdf shush, other wise I will call Indra once again to drove you far away.



People like you are funny. More obsessed with the Dharmic religion than your own!

Missing it already?


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## Kabira

Rajesh12379 said:


> People like you are funny. More obsessed with the Dharmic religion than your own!
> 
> Missing it already?



Yes I miss Indra, I wish he could come back again 



Srinivas said:


> _*Regarding your signature, Ancient India is not like that where fair skinned people hated dark skinned people.
> 
> In Mahabharata Krishna fights Indra and also reminds him who he was. Indra backs down during the episode of Govardhana Giri.
> 
> Indra is king of Devas but the dark skinned Krishna/Rama and Shiva are elevated to the status of one Supreme GOD by the Brahmins.
> 
> This proves the mix that happened thousands of years ago.
> 
> Knowledge, Intelligence and Culture is not the property of one race.*_



bla bla bla, RV is pretty clear about who they were and how they treated you. Lets get back to topic.


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## Rajesh12379

save_ghenda said:


> Yes I miss Indra, I wish he could come back again



Doesn't matter. Now your situation is just "na ghar ka, na ghat ka".


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## Srinivas

save_ghenda said:


> bla bla bla, RV is pretty clear about who they were and how they treated you. Lets get back to topic.



RV is not clear enough on the wars, reason why controversies are created by people like you.

The word Aryan is not clear, based on the slokas one can arrive at a conclusion of noble or civilized !


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## Kabira

Srinivas said:


> RV is not clear enough on the wars, reason why controversies are created by people like you.
> 
> The word Aryan is not clear, based on the slokas one can arrive at a conclusion of noble or civilized !



What controversies, open your eyes. Everything is as clear as water. But you are one of those who believe in OIT so who cares.


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## Rajesh12379

Srinivas said:


> RV is not clear enough on the wars, reason why controversies are created by people like you.
> 
> The word Aryan is not clear, based on the slokas one can arrive at a conclusion of noble or civilized !



Isn't it funny that Pakistani Muslims are telling us about the Rig veda.

While we are teaching them a bit of their Quran in return.

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## nForce

Rajesh12379 said:


> People like you are funny. More obsessed with the Dharmic religion than your own!
> 
> Missing it already?




because they are more arabs than actual arabs, more afghan than actual afghans more srilankan than actual srilankas and now, more hindu than actual hindus!!

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## Srinivas

Rajesh12379 said:


> Isn't it funny that Pakistani Muslims are telling us about the Rig veda.
> 
> While we are teaching them a bit of their Quran in return.



They are the Central Asian Mongoloid turkic Mughals, Rugged face Afghans and horse riding Arabs ..... But not natives.

They love anything that comes from foreign lands ..... simply put they hate themselves !


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## Rajesh12379

nForce said:


> because they are more arabs than actual arabs, more afghan than actual afghans more srilankan than actual srilankas and now, more hindu than actual hindus!!



We can add more Turk than the Turk, more Chinese than the Chin and probably a couple more...


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## nForce

Rajesh12379 said:


> We can add more Turk than the Turk, more Chinese than the Chin and probably a couple more...


more kashmiri than actual kashmiri.. how did we forget that ?

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## Rajesh12379

Srinivas said:


> They are the Central Asian Mongoloid turkic Mughals, Rugged face Afghans and horse riding Arabs ..... But not natives.
> 
> They love anything that comes from foreign lands ..... simply put they hate themselves !



Christopher Hitchens identified three characteristics:

Self righteousness
Self pity
Self loathing

For Pakistanis, some more get added because of their "unique circumstances".

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## hussain0216

Srinivas said:


> They are the Central Asian Mongoloid turkic Mughals, Rugged face Afghans and horse riding Arabs ..... But not natives.
> 
> They love anything that comes from foreign lands ..... simply put they hate themselves !




We have no issues with ourselves 

We accepted islam as the will of God and a far superior and powerfull system compared to the pagan idol and animal worship espoused by our ugly darker skinned cohabitees in the sub continent 


Not wanting to be associated with pagans is a normal thing


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## Srinivas

hussain0216 said:


> We have no issues with ourselves
> We accepted islam as the will of God and a far superior and powerfull system compared to the pagan idol and animal worship espoused by our ugly darker skinned cohabitees in the sub continent
> Not wanting to be associated with pagans is a normal thing



Call us Dharmics, do not compare us with Ancient Arab Pagans who got easily converted to Islam, because their fundamentals are weak and there is no reasoning in what they do.

We have strong fundamentals, culture and a great reasoning in what we do.

Vedas are superior, in the sense they explain every thing also gives clues about GOD !

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## Rajesh12379

hussain0216 said:


> We have no issues with ourselves
> 
> We accepted islam as the will of God and a far superior and powerfull system compared to the pagan idol and animal worship espoused by our ugly darker skinned cohabitees in the sub continent
> 
> 
> Not wanting to be associated with pagans is a normal thing



That is fine. We think that blindly believing the dubious unverifiable claims of a person with questionable character is the biggest jahiliyah and against the human nature and the thinking brain that was given to man.

Any ideologies that makes such hate filled parasitic, self blowing zombies forever looking to screw the 72 has to be the worst ever.

But then, your religion to you. However screwed up we (and the world) may think it is...


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## hussain0216

Srinivas said:


> Call us Dharmics, do not compare us with Ancient Arab Pagans who got easily converted to Islam, because their fundamentals are weak and there is no reasoning in what they do.
> 
> We have strong fundamentals, culture and a great reasoning in what we do.
> 
> Vedas are superior, in the sense they explain every thing also gives clues about GOD !



Your exactly the same

Same idols, same animals, same jahilat, same as africans in jungles and idiots in cave

Do you think calling yourself dharmic stops you from being a pagan, you still worship idols



Islam is far superior, a better system more worthy of being followed



This is your problem you think pakistani disgust at the horror which is hinduism is an attempt to be arabs


Muslims will share commonalities across borders maybe this is where your getting confused 

Pakistanis have no problems with our ethnicity and should learn more about our history but their is revulsion at the abomination you call dharma


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## Srinivas

You can boast your faith as you like, I have np .... nor I am interested to read that. But you have no right to point your fingers to others faith !

regarding darkies or what ever .... we are far better !



hussain0216 said:


> Your exactly the same
> 
> Same idols, same animals, same jahilat, same as africans in jungles and idiots in cave
> 
> Do you think calling yourself dharmic stops you from being a pagan, you still worship idols
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is far superior, a better system more worthy of being followed
> 
> 
> 
> This is your problem you think pakistani disgust at the horror which is hinduism is an attempt to be arabs
> 
> 
> Muslims will share commonalities across borders maybe this is where your getting confused
> 
> Pakistanis have no problems with our ethnicity and should learn more about our history but their is revulsion at the abomination you call dharma


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## hussain0216

Rajesh12379 said:


> That is fine. We think that blindly believing the dubious unverifiable claims of a person with questionable character is the biggest jahiliyah and against the human nature and the thinking brain that was given to man.
> 
> Any ideologies that makes such hate filled parasitic, self blowing zombies forever looking to screw the 72 has to be the worst ever.
> 
> But then, your religion to you. However screwed up we (and the world) may think it is...



Your a pagan your view dosent matter 


Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world and will grow to become the largest as per destiny and Gods will, we are comfortable at the rejection of idol worshipping to worship the one true God


We have no problem espousing the people who lived in what is today Pakistan but you can keep your kooky animal worship to yourself


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## Shan-e-ibrahim

Pakistan is an Islamic reality and believing in Mahabharat is Haram.

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## Force-India

Such inferiority complex among Pakistanis that now they want to claim Indian history. I am guessing Ancient Greek Pakistani topic is now dead so another 

Ps. This Pakistani history sub forum is more like Indian history sub forum lol. Almost every thread is about Pakistani claiming Indian history

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## Rajesh12379

hussain0216 said:


> Your a pagan your view dosent matter
> 
> 
> Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world and will grow to become the largest as per destiny and Gods will, we are comfortable at the rejection of idol worshipping to worship the one true God
> 
> 
> We have no problem espousing the people who lived in what is today Pakistan but you can keep your kooky animal worship to yourself



People like you invite the most contempt for Islam and its prophet.

And then blow up when others get back even slightly. 

I can read so many "kaseedes" in Mohammed's taarif (and the "qualities" of the "religion" he created out of thin air).

Or I can just guide you to Ali Sina's site. I will rather do that.

He has done a good job of describing Mohammed, the "religion" and your ilk. Just contempt for your cowardly kind...


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## hussain0216

Rajesh12379 said:


> People like you invite the most contempt for Islam and its prophet.
> 
> And then blow up when others get back even slightly.
> 
> I can read so many "kaseedes" in Mohammed's taarif (and the "qualities" of the "religion" he created out of thin air).
> 
> Or I can just guide you to Ali Sina's site. I will rather do that.
> 
> He has done a good job of describing Mohammed, the "religion" and your ilk. Just contempt for your cowardly kind...




Like i said i am most comfortable with Islam, why would i waste time reading what a anti islam islamaphobe like ali sina has to say


Islam is growing as per destiny to become the largest faith of the world with adherents across the world of all races, we pakistanis take our place alongside those varied millions

We will worship the one true God and you can keep your weird freak show deformities you call Gods to yourself, we dont want anything to do with them or your pagan culture


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## Kabira

Force-India said:


> Such inferiority complex among Pakistanis that now they want to claim Indian history. I am guessing Ancient Greek Pakistani topic is now dead so another
> 
> Ps. This Pakistani history sub forum is more like Indian history sub forum lol. Almost every thread is about Pakistani claiming Indian history



Indian history? Mahabharat is fiction written by foreign aryans. Real history is Mehr garh, Harappa, Mohenje daro, etc and Pakistanis are proud of them.


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## Rajesh12379

hussain0216 said:


> Like i said i am most comfortable with Islam, why would i waste time reading what a anti islam islamaphobe like ali sina has to say
> 
> 
> Islam is growing as per destiny to become the largest faith of the world with adherents across the world of all races, we pakistanis take our place alongside those varied millions
> 
> We will worship the one true God and you can keep your weird freak show deformities you call Gods to yourself, we dont want anything to do with them or your pagan culture



You need comfort in numbers while the reality crumbles around you.

The false fear of eternal helfire in daujakh, the greed of eternally screwing the 72...

The most primitive carrot and stick game in the world. 

*PS*: If you go to join your khalifa in ISIS, being a convert from the subcontinent, you will be just doing cleaning and cooking.

And no Yajdi booty for your ilk... Non Arabs are second class Muslims for them.


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## Force-India

save_ghenda said:


> Indian history? Mahabharat is fiction written by foreign aryans. Real history is Mehr garh, Harappa, Mohenje daro, etc and Pakistanis are proud of them.



First of all its only Pakistanis like you who believe in Aryan invasion theory lol. Just so you can justify your existence in the subcontinent after the invasion of Muhammed Bin Qasim and other muslims. 

Even if sticking to your logic. everything American whites in USA are doing since last 4-5 hundred years are actually not doing for the USA. Lol what? And just because you love Aryans so much that you mention them in your every post here are some stats, population of Aryans in India is around 856 million and in Pakistan is around 164 million. 

A suggestion. Buddy don't hate your religion Islam, its not a bad religion, infact its a religion of peace. And learn to stick to your roots.

You want to have a connection with history of ancient India. You people are dying to be a part of a civilization which the whole word recognizes. You are in a search for historical stuff like legendary Mahabharata. You are in a search for attention.

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## Kabira

Force-India said:


> First of all its only Pakistanis like you who believe in Aryan invasion theory lol. Just so you can justify your existence in the subcontinent after the invasion of Muhammed Bin Qasim and other muslims.
> 
> Even if sticking to your logic. everything American whites in USA are doing since last 4-5 hundred years are actually not doing for the USA. Lol what? And just because you love Aryans so much that you mention them in your every post here are some stats, population of Aryans in India is around 856 million and in Pakistan is around 164 million.
> 
> A suggestion. Buddy don't hate your religion Islam, its not a bad religion, infact its a religion of peace. And learn to stick to your roots.
> 
> You want to have a connection with history of ancient India. You people are dying to be a part of a civilization which the whole word recognizes. You are in a search for historical stuff like legendary Mahabharata. You are in a search for attention.



gangu bhai its not just Pakistanis but everyone believe in aryans. World is not stupid to believe that gangu Indians spread aryan languages, only Indians can be that stupid and live in denial. So who cares if stupid Indians believe in OIT? No one.


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## Force-India

save_ghenda said:


> gangu bhai its not just Pakistanis but everyone believe in aryans. World is not stupid to believe that gangu Indians spread aryan languages, only Indians can be that stupid and live in denial. So who cares if stupid Indians believe in OIT? No one.



Hahaha you are frustrated for some reason


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## MadDog

nForce said:


> There is nothing called Pakistani kingdom. The idea came into existence some 85 years ago and the country was created 68 years ago. After the creation of the country, the leaders pretended to be Arabs and Afghans and Turks. There is no connection between the history of the land and the state of Pakistan.



Pakistan a word first time used in "Now or Never" journal published by ch rehmat ali in 1933, it is acronym for Punjab, Afghan province ( old name of kpk), Kashmir, Sindh, balochisTAN, all these 5 regions existed 5000 years ago, River Indus was common between them, River indus is to Pak what Nile is to Egypt since Pakistan is an acronym for these regions , it is as ancient as these 5 regions !!!


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## Rajesh12379

MadDog said:


> Pakistan a word first time used in "Now or Never" journal published by ch rehmat ali in 1933, it is acronym for Punjab, Afghan province ( old name of kpk), Kashmir, Sindh, balochisTAN, all these 5 regions existed 5000 years ago, River Indus was common between them, River indus is to Pak what Nile is to Egypt since Pakistan is an acronym for these regions , it is as ancient as these 5 regions !!!



(West) Pakistan is not about it's geography.

It is about the ideology (of two nation theory), the claim that Muslims are a separate nation and get a new identity/history and heroes as soon as they convert and become enemies of people they shared the surname and blood with for thousands of years.

That just goes with the territory. You had people with Mohammed that asked their own brother to be held hostage for ransom (as their mother could pay large ransom). Same way you have heroes that perpetrated rape and genocide in your lands and burned your towns and villages, just because the heroes were Muslims.

So you see, there is a bit of contradiction here. No worries, you have a few thousand years to sort it out...


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## Force-India

MadDog said:


> Pakistan a word first time used in "Now or Never" journal published by ch rehmat ali in 1933, it is acronym for Punjab, Afghan province ( old name of kpk), Kashmir, Sindh, balochisTAN, all these 5 regions existed 5000 years ago, River Indus was common between them, River indus is to Pak what Nile is to Egypt since Pakistan is an acronym for these regions , it is as ancient as these 5 regions !!!



Nice kid you got 100 out of 100 in Pakistan studies


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## duhastmish

What bullshyt!

Mahabharata is an epic mythology. It's not real.


To OP the wine must be free but liver is yours! Drink less and talk lesser.


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## farhan_9909

infact if we stretch it further,Pakistan are the true ancestors of the indians.


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## Ajai Ghale

save_ghenda said:


> You are not getting it do yo mallu? Aryans were nomadic while ancient Pakistanis used to live in cities of IVC. Kalash people were aryans, after imposing their religion on_ Indian_s in Gangustan, they left and started to live in hindu kush. Till this day they have maintained their aryan life style and religion.
> 
> Pakistanis are not aryans, we are indigenous people of Mehrgarh.
> 
> 
> 
> In every forum these Indians claim to be white huns, kushans, scytians, aryans  And then come here and are shocked that no one among us is claiming to be arab or persian as they wished.
> 
> 
> 
> Its getting boring watching all these pictures again and again. You are son of mongols/indians, end result nepali looks, height barely over 5'0, very temid look. Look at pictures you posted.
> 
> Dogra regiment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pak army
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No comparison what so ever between you and sons from mehrgarh. They will eat dogra regiment alive.


Haha showing the pic of SSG who run 5 mile in 20 mins.

Here is the thing except for the beard you are racially weak,short and Chubby as their are several studies which suggests that years of inbreeding makes one genetically inferior.

Here is the random pics indo pak soldiers and not for sissy boys posing of Al Hilal.

*Look at pak soldiers short and either Chubby or Thin even the beard can't hide their sissy looks*


----------



## Kabira

Ajai Ghale said:


> View attachment 225816
> 
> Haha showing the pic of SSG who run 5 mile in 20 mins.
> 
> Here is the thing except for the beard you are racially weak,short and Chubby as their are several studies which suggests that years of inbreeding makes one genetically inferior.
> 
> Here is the random pics indo pak soldiers and not for sissy boys posing of Al Hilal.
> 
> *Look at pak soldiers short and either Chubby or Thin even the beard can't hide their sissy looks*
> View attachment 225809
> 
> 
> View attachment 225811
> 
> View attachment 225813
> 
> View attachment 225815
> 
> View attachment 225816
> 
> View attachment 225817
> 
> 
> View attachment 225819



Even in your cherry picked photos Pakistani soldiers are better as its only natural. Only in group photos of army we can see real deal.

Indian army from north india high caste regiments like dogra, rajput, jaat etc flat nosed, small stature, gracile chubby faces, mongol tendencies etc
























Here is how real men look.


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## Ajai Ghale

save_ghenda said:


> Even in your cherry picked photos Pakistani soldiers are better as its only natural. Only in group photos of army we can see real deal.
> 
> Indian army from north india high caste regiments like dogra, rajput, jaat etc flat nosed, small stature, gracile chubby faces, mongol tendencies etc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is how real men look.


Ashamed of seeing those midgets and Chubby nerds ?

Anyway some pics you posted not even of army

I have several pics of your chubby Soldiers who can't even run 10 mile

*Both pics are from Kargil*

Rajuptana Rifles who took bullets in his chest beheaded a NLI with his bare hands











Now here is Nli 50 kg midget from the same war (I don't find any other of Nli except for POWs)






JAT regiment









As usual Either weak or chubby and some of them are Overly dark so atleast they are not central Asian


----------



## Kabira

Ajai Ghale said:


> Ashamed of seeing those midgets and Chubby nerds ?
> 
> Anyway some pics you posted not even of army
> 
> I have several pics of your chubby Soldiers who can't even run 10 mile
> 
> *Both pics are from Kargil*
> 
> Rajuptana Rifles who took bullets in his chest beheaded a NLI with his bare hands
> 
> View attachment 225825
> 
> 
> View attachment 225832
> 
> 
> Now here is Nli 50 kg midget from the same war (I don't find any other of Nli except for POWs)
> 
> View attachment 225828
> 
> 
> JAT regiment
> View attachment 225833
> 
> View attachment 225835
> 
> 
> As usual Either weak or chubby and some of them are Overly dark so atleast they are not central Asian
> View attachment 225837
> 
> View attachment 225838



. And Pakistani photos are off new recuits lmao,. Even kids in Pak army have better build then hindus.

Indian army











dude you are clearly blind, nothing will change ground reality.

Pakistan army, proper one and not new kids in school lol















burn lol

And obvioudly hindus cannot grow proper beard, its well known fact noted by british anthropologists even. lmao


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## Kabira

Ajai Ghale said:


> Haha second pic of 55+ officers
> 
> As I told you inbreeding could make one inferior.
> 
> And look at your second pic of pak army fat black and inferior
> Fata recent op (took it from PDF pic section)
> View attachment 225849
> 
> 
> View attachment 225852



Yaar this talk of black doesn't suite you does it? You are making fun of shaeed soldier who will be considered god in India because of his looks. And you are blind. You can post as many random photos as you like but this is reality

Typical Indian army

Dogra regiment






Some randome Indian army photos

















Very beutifull no doubt but not comparable to Pakistan army, sorry but thats just cold hard fact. I have a feeling even Pakistani chuhra exclusive regiment will be taller and more handsome then Indian army.


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## Ajai Ghale

save_ghenda said:


> Yaar this talk of black doesn't suite you does it? You are making fun of shaeed soldier who will be considered god in India because of his looks. And you are blind. You can post as many random photos as you like but this is reality
> 
> Typical Indian army
> 
> Dogra regiment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very beutifull no doubt but not comparable to Pakistan army, sorry not but thats just cold hard fact. I have a feeling even Pakistani chunra exclusive regiment will be taller and more handsome then Indian army.


Like the handsome guys I posted above not to mention 50 kg

Descendant of Porus hardly weight 40 kg





No wonder kushan would LAMO of these Dark and Thin Central Asians From Tarim Basin Except for the beard nothing white 






Come back when you Guys would dare to compete us,we run faster and jump longer and do this to racially inferior Mallecha.


Pakistani records in athletics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Indian records in athletics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## hussain0216

Ajai Ghale said:


> Like the handsome guys I posted above not to mention 50 kg
> 
> Descendant of Porus hardly weight 40 kg
> 
> View attachment 225860
> 
> No wonder kushan would LAMO of these Dark and Thin Central Asians From Tarim Basin Except for the beard nothing white
> View attachment 225861
> 
> 
> 
> Come back when you Guys would dare to compete us,we run faster and jump longer and do this to racially inferior Mallecha.
> 
> 
> Pakistani records in athletics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Indian records in athletics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





Omg you indians are delusional

Out of all the subcontinent its the people of Pakistan which are better looking, taller, fairer and stronger

This is because most of our people are punjabi kashmiri pathan or north Pakistani

Random photos aside you can see this amongst clearly unless you are a dark delusional indian

Even indian women repeatedly state Pakistanis are better looking

Buzzfeed India Editor Comes In For Vicious Sexist Attack On Twitter


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## Kabira

Ajai Ghale said:


> Like the handsome guys I posted above not to mention 50 kg
> 
> Descendant of Porus hardly weight 40 kg
> 
> View attachment 225860
> 
> No wonder kushan would LAMO of these Dark and Thin Central Asians From Tarim Basin Except for the beard nothing white
> View attachment 225861
> 
> 
> 
> Come back when you Guys would dare to compete us,we run faster and jump longer and do this to racially inferior Mallecha.
> 
> 
> Pakistani records in athletics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Indian records in athletics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Honestly all the pictures you keep posting of ugly Pak army, they still look better then Indians in those pictures lmao nothing will change this reality no matter how many random photos you post.

And its Indians who claim scytians, kushans, aryan, hunas ancestry while looking like pictures I posted.


----------



## ghoul

Ajai Ghale said:


> Potohar my Arse,You are Shudra Mallacha we don't consider you Muslims as Rajputs and why are you showing me the pics of converts of unknown origin,I can give you so many example of shudras who were given KHAN title even during the time of Sultanate.
> 
> My ancestors were allotted the land in Himachal even before 1947 as they were in the service of Dogra and Katoch rulers.
> 
> And compare the list of Number of Victoria cross won by Hindus and Muslims including the second VC was Negi Rajput you should know them as they refused to fire on Muslims in Peshawar.
> 
> These are jamwals
> View attachment 225764
> 
> View attachment 225765
> 
> 
> 
> P.S: why don't you share your personal pic with me then we decide the difference with Mix Race potohari and a Jamwal.



I'm 100% sure, you're not a dogra or jammuite. You're from Uttarkhand or some other shithole. And for the point, I'm no Minhaas, you idiot. Was merely pointing out that they are one of the largest rajput clans in my home region.

And it doesn't matter if you accept them to be Jamwaal or not, no one gives a !@#$. The Mair-Minhaas of Chakwal had sided with the Sikhs against British, hence their lands were confiscated by the Brits. The chieftains of the said clan then approached Gulab Singh Dogra, and shared their family tree with him, which made him intervene on their behalf and hence the relationship between them and the Brits got back to normal.

I'm sure you're 45% "South Indian", genetic chamar from Uttarkhand pretending to be a Scythian Jammuwal(lol).



scionoftheindus said:


> Man I see you always present on PDF..if you don't mind ,can you tell me if you go to college or office?
> I admire your knowledge of history.



Thanks man. I generally comment on history based articles. And I'm afraid I can't answer such a question on a public forum. Apologies.



Ajai Ghale said:


> Ashamed of seeing those midgets and Chubby nerds ?
> 
> Anyway some pics you posted not even of army
> 
> I have several pics of your chubby Soldiers who can't even run 10 mile
> 
> *Both pics are from Kargil*
> 
> Rajuptana Rifles who took bullets in his chest beheaded a NLI with his bare hands



These pictures can be deceiving. Im sure if you went to G-B region of Pakistan, you would be called a "kaalia"(black). They are in all likelihood the lightest skinned and lightest eyed people in Pakistan.

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## Proudpakistaniguy

Force-India said:


> Such inferiority complex among Pakistanis that now they want to claim Indian history. I am guessing Ancient Greek Pakistani topic is now dead so another
> 
> Ps. This Pakistani history sub forum is more like Indian history sub forum lol. Almost every thread is about Pakistani claiming Indian history


So Pakistani People don't have any history prior to arrival of Islam in sub continents? Why you guys are such idiots? Recognising your pre-Islamic heritage is considered inferiority complex and not recognising it is some superiority complex and make us arab for Indians. confuse Indian as usual never happy in any case


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## nForce

MadDog said:


> Pakistan a word first time used in "Now or Never" journal published by ch rehmat ali in 1933, it is acronym for Punjab, Afghan province ( old name of kpk), Kashmir, Sindh, balochisTAN, all these 5 regions existed 5000 years ago, River Indus was common between them, River indus is to Pak what Nile is to Egypt since Pakistan is an acronym for these regions , it is as ancient as these 5 regions !!!



1. All the regions of the World existed before they were rediscovered, rechristened, renamed, or remodelled. The argument does not hold a flag. I'm sure they existed 6000 years ago as well, not just 5000 years ago.

2. The newly formed Pakistani govt. guided by its forward thinking leaders decided to abandon the history of their own land and people that was thousands of years old. They tried to be more "Islamic"(read Arab) and more closely related to the invaders of India, where as in reality almost all Pakistanis are those who have been converted to Islam by the invaders.

3. While there is nothing wrong with religion, one cannot nitpick when it comes to which historical identity to choose. You cannot have both, let alone best of both. The Egyptians, for example, are mostly Muslims, nowadays, but that doesn't mean they have forsaken what they actually are. They don't name their weapons after their own invaders. So, it's not a question of geography, rather it's the philosophy one chooses and the decisions one make. Pakistani leaders have made that decision for you, and assumed an identity for the country, which is loosely based around "not being India". Try to live with that.

@ghoul I have gone through what you have said, regarding topic and I must say, your points are impressive. However, changes don't happen overnight and lot of wind has to blow, before the prevalent mentality in Pakistan changes.

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## Jaggu

North India and the region of Pakistan played a very important role in the Mahabharat.

-Gandhaari was the mother of the Kauravs. As her name implies, she was from Gandhara. She was a pious woman. Her brother was Shakuni(Mama of Kauravs) was king of Gandhara which is Pothohar and parts of Afghanistan. Shakuni was one of the central figures of Mahabharat story. He was mainly responsible for the war in Kurukshetra. He and his entire army sided with the Kauravs.

-The maternal uncle of the Pandavs, Shalya was king of Madra Desh which is central Punjab or Majha region which is now mostly in Pakistan. He had a very powerful army which fought on the side of the Kauravs. Later this king became the charioteer of Karan in competition to Arjun whose charioteer was Krishna. After the death of Karan, Shalya was appointed the commander in chief of the Kaurav army.

-Jayadrath was the king of Sindh. He also possessed a powerful army. He was was married to Dushala who was the only sister of the Kauravs. He had disrespected Draupadi and in revenge, the Pandavs punished him by cutting his hair on his head leaving only 5 locks of hair. He took revenge from the Pandavs during the Mahabharat war. He played a major role in the death Abhimanyu who was son of Arjun. Later Arjun killed Jayadrath.

Maybe some other knowledgealbe members here might add more info

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## topgun047

Una district of Himachal came under which kingdom?


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## Ajai Ghale

ghoul said:


> I'm 100% sure, you're not a dogra or jammuite. You're from Uttarkhand or some other shithole. And for the point, I'm no Minhaas, you idiot. Was merely pointing out that they are one of the largest rajput clans in my home region.
> 
> And it doesn't matter if you accept them to be Jamwaal or not, no one gives a !@#$. The Mair-Minhaas of Chakwal had sided with the Sikhs against British, hence their lands were confiscated by the Brits. The chieftains of the said clan then approached Gulab Singh Dogra, and shared their family tree with him, which made him intervene on their behalf and hence the relationship between them and the Brits got back to normal.
> 
> I'm sure you're 45% "South Indian", genetic chamar from Uttarkhand pretending to be a Scythian Jammuwal(lol).
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks man. I generally comment on history based articles. And I'm afraid I can't answer such a question on a public forum. Apologies.
> 
> 
> 
> These pictures can be deceiving. Im sure if youth went to G-B region of Pakistan, you would be called a "kaalia"(black). They are in all likelihood the lightest skinned and lightest eyed people in Pakistan.


LAMO now a convert Bhangi would tell me about my ancestry and why would it even be a matter as we are not cousin lovers like potohari shudra.

And I give a advice if you ever find a Jamwal,Dogra or Katoch don't even mention them as a rajput as they won't let a convert masquerading as rajput came 100 metre near them.

Potohari rajput (Agnikul) Descendant of KUSH


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## scionoftheindus

Ajai Ghale said:


> LAMO now a convert Bhangi would tell me about my ancestry and why would it even be a matter as we are not cousin lovers like potohari shudra.
> 
> And I give a advice if you ever find a Jamwal,Dogra or Katoch don't even mention them as a rajput as they won't let a convert masquerading as rajput came 100 metre near them.
> 
> Potohari rajput (Agnikul) Descendant of KUSH
> View attachment 225920


I found many Pakistanis claiming themselves rajputs?are these fellows not rajputs?how do Hindu rajputs treat them if they come across them?

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## Jaggu

topgun047 said:


> Una district of Himachal came under which kingdom?


Until recently, Una district was under Hushiarpur. Both Hushiarpuris and Una people speak the same doabi dialect

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## Ajai Ghale

hussain0216 said:


> Omg you indians are delusional
> 
> Out of all the subcontinent its the people of Pakistan which are better looking, taller, fairer and stronger
> 
> This is because most of our people are punjabi kashmiri pathan or north Pakistani
> 
> Random photos aside you can see this amongst clearly unless you are a dark delusional indian
> 
> Even indian women repeatedly state Pakistanis are better looking
> 
> Buzzfeed India Editor Comes In For Vicious Sexist Attack On Twitter


why are you so ashamed to see those pics all of them are weak 40 kg grunts


scionoftheindus said:


> I found many Pakistanis claiming themselves rajputs?are these fellows not rajputs?how do Hindu rajputs treat them if they come across them?


May I ask you which Rajput clan in India Claim themselves suryavanshi but Marry their own Cousin Sister.

Muslims do not have rajput clan but sects but yet these shameless outcastes associate themselves with Hindu Mythology

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## Kabira

scionoftheindus said:


> I found many Pakistanis claiming themselves rajputs?are these fellows not rajputs?how do Hindu rajputs treat them if they come across them?



If I ever came cross any hindu rajput I would slap the f out of him, fucking useless midgets

Look at rajput regiment






Embarassing to say the least. Look more like mochis.



nForce said:


> 1. All the regions of the World existed before they were rediscovered, rechristened, renamed, or remodelled. The argument does not hold a flag. I'm sure they existed 6000 years ago as well, not just 5000 years ago.
> 
> 2. The newly formed Pakistani govt. guided by its forward thinking leaders decided to abandon the history of their own land and people that was thousands of years old. They tried to be more "Islamic"(read Arab) and more closely related to the invaders of India, where as in reality almost all Pakistanis are those who have been converted to Islam by the invaders.
> 
> 3. While there is nothing wrong with religion, one cannot nitpick when it comes to which historical identity to choose. You cannot have both, let alone best of both. The Egyptians, for example, are mostly Muslims, nowadays, but that doesn't mean they have forsaken what they actually are. They don't name their weapons after their own invaders. So, it's not a question of geography, rather it's the philosophy one chooses and the decisions one make. Pakistani leaders have made that decision for you, and assumed an identity for the country, which is loosely based around "not being India". Try to live with that.
> 
> @ghoul I have gone through what you have said, regarding topic and I must say, your points are impressive. However, changes don't happen overnight and lot of wind has to blow, before the prevalent mentality in Pakistan changes.



Its all nice and dandy when Indians talk about glorious muslim invaders. And then in back side proudly claim to be kushan, huna, aryan, scytian etc 

Islam is all about equality, one can't say the same about aryan religion can we? One just need to read my sig if anyone have doubts. But but aryans didn't came from anywhere lmao


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## nForce

save_ghenda said:


> Its all nice and dandy when Indians talk about glorious muslim invaders. And then in back side proudly claim to be kushan, huna, aryan, scytian etc
> 
> Islam is all about equality, one can't say the same about aryan religion can we? One just need to read my sig if anyone have doubts. But but aryans didn't came from anywhere lmao



We identify an invader as invader.


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## Kabira

nForce said:


> We identify an invader as invader.



You follow religion of invaders and speak aryan language. Unless you are dravidian, but even dravidian are hindus while speaking non-aryan language.


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## nForce

save_ghenda said:


> You follow religion of invaders and speak aryan language. Unless you are dravidian, but even dravidian are hindus while speaking non-aryan language.



Do you understand the difference between an invader and a settler ?

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## halupridol

nForce said:


> Do you understand the difference between an invader and a settler ?


martial pendus have a bery stronk identity crisis,,,njoy his posts,,they r funny

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## Proudpakistaniguy

nForce said:


> We identify an invader as invader.


​And proud on those historical building left by invaders such as Taj mahal. Tell me what you guys are smoking when you write all this BS. I have read about indus valley civilisation and gandhara in pak studies books and history books also teach us about pre-islamic heritage of this region. We have many such sites preserved in Pakistan in different museums. Its not our leaders but you idiots who tell us that we were landed on this region with entrance of Muhammad bin qasim in sindh and had no prior exitence or identity. Obviously after conversion to islam the first loyalty of Muslim is with islam and others Muslims


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## nForce

Proudpakistaniguy said:


> And proud on those historical building left by invaders such as Taj mahal. Tell me what you guys are smoking when you write all this BS. I have read about indus valley civilisation and gandhara in pak studies books and history books also teach us about pre-islamic heritage of this region. We have many such sites preserved in Pakistan in different museums. Its not our leaders but you idiots who tell us that we were landed on this region with entrance of Muhammad bin qasim in sindh and had no prior exitence or identity. Obviously after conversion to islam the first loyalty of Muslim is with islam and others Muslims



Shahjahan, an Indian emperor from an Indian dynasty built the Tajmahal, not someone who wanted to plunder the wealth and then carry it back to somewhere else. If you want to learn history, be unbiased.

You mistake me for a cheap troll, know the context and then talk. My point is, one should be true to his heritage and accept it the way it is. One cannot pretend to be an Arab during the day and a Sindhi or Punjabi during the night.



Alpha BeeTee said:


> Islam forbids making a mockery or fun of other religions.
> It will hurt the followers and then they will spur hatred against our religion.



Islam may forbid it, but many people here in this forum do, almost all of them Pakistanis. That's just plain and simple wrong and shows the religious intolerance.

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## MadDog

Force-India said:


> Nice kid you got 100 out of 100 in Pakistan studies


No kiddo they dont teach this in Pak studies, wish they could teach it, instead of using religion for everything, these regions indus valley civilization, ghandhara and mehrghar have always been independent kingdoms from what u call today's india , do read the book Indus sauga and making of Pakistan while Pak studies only focuses on Mhd bin Qasim invasion and central asian empires after that not the ancient five regions, acronym for which is Pakistan, so my friend you are mistaken !!!


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## kadamba-warrior

Horus said:


> Mahabaharat = Ancient Game of Thrones. Its a work of fiction, not an authentic historic document.



Any proof to back it up, one-line wonder?

In the same way, can we also start questioning the authenticity of Islamic scriptures and equate them to some computer game?

@WebMaster

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## kadamba-warrior

levina said:


> This line shows your limited knowledge about Sindhu-Saraswati civilisation.
> And why is it that you call it Indus, which is a name coined by foreigners???
> And just in case you didn't know, there were civilised ppl as far as Deccan during the mature Harappan period.
> Do you have any knowledge about the SSC cities?? Or how they were built???
> Any knowledge of PGW??? (painted grey ware)
> 
> 
> Do you want me to cherry pick something from your religious text??
> Don't push me to the wall.
> @Irfan Baloch @waz @Emmie
> This guy has been constantly misquoting hymns from Hindu religious texts.



Just a simple sketch on a piece of paper is enough to get these insecure bunch huffing & puffing and blowing up themselves and people around them. But they can happily indulge in insulting all other religions all day long!

Bunch of hypocrites!

@WebMaster since when is insulting religions (more specifically Hinduism) allowed on this form?

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## Srinivas

save_ghenda said:


> I understand why RV is never given importance despite being original aryan text. Not that it belong to hindus. RV is not religious book.



RV is not a religious book 

You have no idea about this book .... right

The mention of Vishnu / Brahmaan is the central to this text, But the teachings are universal . Aryans are indigenous to Bharat.


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## Ajai Ghale

save_ghenda said:


> If I ever came cross any hindu rajput I would slap the f out of him, fucking useless midgets
> 
> Look at rajput regiment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Embarassing to say the least. Look more like mochis.
> 
> 
> 
> Its all nice and dandy when Indians talk about glorious muslim invaders. And then in back side proudly claim to be kushan, huna, aryan, scytian etc
> 
> Islam is all about equality, one can't say the same about aryan religion can we? One just need to read my sig if anyone have doubts. But but aryans didn't came from anywhere lmao


Abdul Razzak don't post false pics I know your are ashamed .....that is not Rajput regiment that is paramilitary like your Rangers.

As usual an Underweight dark central Asian from Tarim Basin





And showing his Homo tendency and sardar jee trying to ignore him 





*This is Rajput Regiment (notice the insignia)







*

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## unbiasedopinion

save_ghenda said:


> People are already familiar with this infamous map. Pakistani kingdoms here seem to be Darada, Gandhara, Kasmira, Kamboja, Bahlika, Madra, Kekaya, Amvastha, Sivi, Sauvira.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know where we can get detailed information on these kingdoms mentioned above?



Its overwhelming to see that you are returning to your root by reading the Hindus' books...True Ghar Wapsi.

Welcome



Horus said:


> Mahabaharat = Ancient Game of Thrones. Its a work of fiction, not an authentic historic document.


yes yes the same way when few hundred years ago earth was center of the universe and flat..till someone discovered the truth.....

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## ghoul

Ajai Ghale said:


> LAMO now a convert Bhangi would tell me about my ancestry and why would it even be a matter as we are not cousin lovers like potohari shudra.
> 
> And I give a advice if you ever find a Jamwal,Dogra or Katoch don't even mention them as a rajput as they won't let a convert masquerading as rajput came 100 metre near them.
> 
> View attachment 225920



Chal dogri ya kangri bol. I understand a good 70% of the two languages judging by those online videos.

And I'm sure Himachali Katoch would respect some Pakistani Rajput clans with similar descent. The Chib clan which ruled the Khari-Kharyali and Bhimber states, and who also fought Ranjit Singh, is descended from Katoch princes. Now Hindu Chibs are found in Jammu, and the muslim Chibs right across the border in Bhimber(the two states are bordering). The people of Bhimber are more Dogra in terms of culture and dress, than Potohari or Pahari. I'm sure the Katoch and Chibs of India would respect their powerful namesakes at this side of the border. Here's the royal family of Bhimber, they are muslim Chibs:






As for us being lighter skinned or something. I don't exactly know what Himachali and Dogra rajputs look like, but I think light eyes and stuff are relatively common among them as well, but I think they are darker as a whole. Perhaps they intermarried with those aboriginal-munda and Bhil "rajputs" of Rajasthan, UP, Madhya Pradesh etc.

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## Kabira

Ajai Ghale said:


> Abdul Razzak don't post false pics I know your are ashamed .....that is not Rajput regiment that is paramilitary like your Rangers.
> 
> As usual an Underweight dark central Asian from Tarim Basin
> View attachment 226025
> 
> 
> And showing his Homo tendency and sardar jee trying to ignore him
> View attachment 226026
> 
> 
> *This is Rajput Regiment (notice the insignia)
> View attachment 226028
> 
> View attachment 226029
> *



See the difference, you are posting random pictures while I am posting ubber high castes regiments who probably make 10% or lower of Indian population. 

So these are not rajput regiments? 






rajput regiment, google it






dogra regiment







jaat regiment






fooking mochis look



Srinivas said:


> RV is not a religious book
> 
> You have no idea about this book .... right
> 
> The mention of Vishnu / Brahmaan is the central to this text, But the teachings are universal . Aryans are indigenous to Bharat.



Read this
Horseplay in Harappa

Your desperation will not make any difference to real historical facts.


----------



## Srinivas

save_ghenda said:


> Read this
> Horseplay in Harappa
> 
> Your desperation will not make any difference to real historical facts.



Why should I be desperate dude? ... the culture, practices, places and the history associated with RV is with India. It is not like we are adopting foreign faith and are trying to become them !

Secondly If Brahmins are Aryans then where are the warriors who killed dark skinned people?

Why are dark skinned people who are kings became the protectors of Dharma?

It is a mix and indigenous dude !


----------



## Kabira

Srinivas said:


> Why should I be desperate dude? ... the culture, practices, places and the history associated with RV is with India. It is not like we are adopting foreign faith and are trying to become them !
> 
> Secondly If Brahmins are Aryans then where are the warriors who killed dark skinned people?
> 
> Why are dark skinned people who are kings became the protectors of Dharma?
> 
> It is a mix and indigenous dude !



Bhai RV have nothing to do with Indians. Brahmins are not aryans, they are priests from north india/haryana. Aryans are proto indo-european people, and they absolutly came from outside South Asia, forget about India. Kalash people are last surviving aryans in this world.


----------



## Srinivas

save_ghenda said:


> Bhai RV have nothing to do with Indians. Brahmins are not aryans, they are priests from north india/haryana. Aryans are proto indo-european people, and they absolutly came from outside South Asia, forget about India. Kalash people are last surviving aryans in this world.



Not true dude ..... where are the aryans now in the sub continent .... where are the blue eyed vedic people now?

Where are the traditions of Vedas in their home lands?

Read the scriptures, articles about Avesta and RV. They both look the same.

Except that RV people considered Avestan people as Rakshas and Avestan people considered RV god Indra as an evil deity.

As I said earlier the culture, scriptures and practices are all indigenous and a mix.


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## Kabira

Srinivas said:


> Not true dude ..... where are the aryans now in the sub continent .... where are the blue eyed vedic people now?
> 
> Where are the traditions of Vedas in their home lands?
> 
> Read the scriptures, articles about Avesta and RV. They both look the same.
> 
> Except that RV people considered Avestan people as Rakshas and Avestan people considered RV god Indra as an evil deity.
> 
> As I said earlier the culture, scriptures and practices are all indigenous and a mix.



So Indians spread indo-european languages all over europe?  I keep repeating it but seem like you don't get it, Kalash are last surviving aryan people in South Asia.


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## Srinivas

save_ghenda said:


> So Indians spread indo-european languages all over europe?  I keep repeating it but seem like you don't get it, Kalash are last surviving aryan people in South Asia.



Language, Culture and Nationality are independent of each other!

May be the language is a common group but the practices and culture evolved is specific to the region.

Those blue eyed europeans has got nothing to do with Bharat.

Those guys are hunting animals in snow and living in caves when Cities, science and astronomy are being established here.

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## Force-India

save_ghenda said:


> So Indians spread indo-european languages all over europe?  I keep repeating it but seem like you don't get it, Kalash are last surviving aryan people in South Asia.



They look no where near aryans lol. Not even single sub continent person have facial looks like them. They are entirely saperate set of genes 

Srtick to your greek roots


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## Kabira

Srinivas said:


> Language, Culture and Nationality are independent of each other!
> 
> May be the language is a common group but the practices and culture evolved is specific to the region.
> 
> Those blue eyed europeans has got nothing to do with Bharat.
> 
> Those guys are hunting animals in snow and living in caves when Cities, science and astronomy are being established here.



Indeed ancient Pakistanis who established IVC cities were more advanced then nomadic cattle thieves aryans who composed RV. But we can't deny the fact that today half the world speak aryan languages. And when I said euros had to do with India? Europe was also invaded by aryans.



Force-India said:


> They look no where near aryans lol. Not even single sub continent person have facial looks like them. They are entirely saperate set of genes



No where near aryans? How did aryans look then?


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## Force-India

Force-India said:


> They look no where near aryans lol. Not even single sub continent person have facial looks like them. They are entirely saperate set of genes





save_ghenda said:


> Indeed ancient Pakistanis who established IVC cities were more advanced then nomadic cattle thieves aryans who composed RV. But we can't deny the fact that today half the world speak aryan languages. And when I said euros had to do with India? Europe was also invaded by aryans.
> 
> 
> 
> No where near aryans? How did aryans look then?



If your theory is true they must look like Indians


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## Srinivas

save_ghenda said:


> Indeed ancient Pakistanis who established IVC cities were more advanced then nomadic cattle thieves aryans who composed RV. But we can't deny the fact that today half the world speak aryan languages. And when I said euros had to do with India? Europe was also invaded by aryans.
> No where near aryans? How did aryans look then?



Language spread may have happened through trade or migration of certain people, AFAIK Europe was not invaded by eastern people until Huns !


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## definitelynotIndian

Roybot said:


> Do you want people to start saying stuff about your religion? You are a 50 year old man for god sake, act like one!


Age doesnt mean anything on this forum. The troll lord Riaq Haq is at least 60 years old.


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## Kabira

Srinivas said:


> Language spread may have happened through trade or migration of certain people, AFAIK Europe was not invaded by eastern people until Huns !



Come with better explanation, so Indian traders spread aryan languages to Europe? lmao


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## ghoul

save_ghenda said:


> So Indians spread indo-european languages all over europe?  I keep repeating it but seem like you don't get it, Kalash are last surviving aryan people in South Asia.



Kalaash are not Aryan in terms of patrilineal descent. R1a, the Y-DNA lineage associated with Indo-Iranians(Aryans) is found among Kalaash at a low frequency compared to some other communities of south-Asia. In my opinion, probably the purest descendants of Aryans are the Punjabi Khatris, despite them having a higher percentage of South-Indian admixture compared to Kalaash etc. Brahmins are also pure, for most of them carry the R1a clade, but are not as pure as Khatris. Khatris also carry a higher Caucasus component than their Jatt and Gujjar neighbours, although the samples sizes might not be enough to make a gospel out of Khatris' Aryan descent. Genetic samples taken from Andronovo culture of Kazakhstan, which is thought to be a distinct Indo-Iranian culture turned out to be R1a 2 out of 3 times. If I'm not wrong, some 70% of Khatris showed the R1a lineage. It would be interesting to see the result of socially high ranking, large scale land owning rajputs of Punjab and Potohar region, who do not intermary with neighbouring tribes. I have a feeling most would belong to R1a too, but there are hardly any samples on the ancestry websites.

As for Kalaash, most of the samples have been found to belong to haplogroup L, which is highest in Tamils. Looks can be deceiving. Kalaash looking people can be found as far south as, I dare say, even Murree. Light eyes and skin is common throughout the himalayan and hindukush mountans. It's the Greek nationalist agenda which makes any distinctions between Kalaash and the rest of Gilgit-Baltistanis.

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## Proudpakistaniguy

nForce said:


> You mistake me for a cheap troll, know the context and then talk. My point is, one should be true to his heritage and accept it the way it is. One cannot pretend to be an Arab during the day and a Sindhi or Punjabi during the night.


You are forgetting that Pakistani belong to different ethnicities, castes and tribes and not all of them claim same origin. If some Pakistani claim to be syed then it dont mean all Pakistani would become arabs and similarly origin of Muslim Pakistani rajputs may differ to those Pakistani who have Pashtun or baloch origin. We have some siddi/makrani people who claim their origin in southeast Africa so you guys should not expect from all Pakistani to have same origin.


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## Kabira

ghoul said:


> Kalaash are not Aryan in terms of patrilineal descent. R1a, the Y-DNA lineage associated with Indo-Iranians(Aryans) is found among Kalaash at a low frequency compared to some other communities of south-Asia. In my opinion, probably the purest descendants of Aryans are the Punjabi Khatris, despite them having a higher percentage of South-Indian admixture compared to Kalaash etc. Brahmins are also pure, for most of them carry the R1a clade, but are not as pure as Khatris. Khatris also carry a higher Caucasus component than their Jatt and Gujjar neighbours, although the samples sizes might not be enough to make a gospel out of Khatris' Aryan descent. Genetic samples taken from Andronovo culture of Kazakhstan, which is thought to be a distinct Indo-Iranian culture turned out to be R1a 2 out of 3 times. If I'm not wrong, some 70% of Khatris showed the R1a lineage. It would be interesting to see the result of socially high ranking, large scale land owning rajputs of Punjab and Potohar region, who do not intermary with neighbouring tribes. I have a feeling most would belong to R1a too, but there are hardly any samples on the ancestry websites.
> 
> As for Kalaash, most of the samples have been found to belong to haplogroup L, which is highest in Tamils. Looks can be deceiving. Kalaash looking people can be found as far south as, I dare say, even Murree. Light eyes and skin is common throughout the himalayan and hindukush mountans. It's the Greek nationalist agenda which makes any distinctions between Kalaash and the rest of Gilgit-Baltistanis.



Someone have added around 50 jatt samples 23andme on anthrogenica and 64% of them have R1a. And no 70% khatris didn't show r1a, there has never been any khatri specific studies. Bengali brahmins showed 72% R1a. Though so far only 1 punjabi gujjar sample and he is R1a1.

R1a is most common haplogroup in north west subcontinent in all tribes, probably not in low castes. The main difference between Pakistan and north west India is HAP caucasian/ne euro component. In Pakistan caucasian component increases but ne euro lowers.

Kalash have L3a* which has nothing to do with Tamils.

harappadna is dead, but people in anthrogenica keep updating this chart with new samples.

Google Sheets - create and edit spreadsheets online, for free.

Rajputs in Pak should also have 60-70% r1a, there are already 6-7 Pak rajputs samples on HAP and this chart combined. There is also one sample from Murre on that list, he is abbasi.

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## ghoul

save_ghenda said:


> Someone have added around 50 jatt samples 23andme on anthrogenica and 64% of them have R1a. And no 70% khatris didn't show r1a, there has never been any khatri specific studies. Bengali brahmins showed 72% R1a. Though so far only 1 punjabi gujjar sample and he is R1a1.
> 
> R1a is most common haplogroup in north west subcontinent in all tribes, probably not in low castes. The main difference between Pakistan and north west India is HAP caucasian/ne euro component. In Pakistan caucasian component increases but ne euro lowers.
> 
> Kalash have L3a* which has nothing to do with Tamils.
> 
> harappadna is dead, but people in anthrogenica keep updating this chart with new samples.
> 
> Google Sheets - create and edit spreadsheets online, for free.
> 
> Rajputs in Pak should also have 60-70% r1a, there are already 6-7 Pak rajputs samples on HAP and this chart combined. There is also one sample from Murre on that list, he is abbasi.



Jatt Sikhs appear to be purer than Pakistan Jatts, but perhaps it's just the sample bias? Khatris have a relatively higher caucasus component than their compatriots judging by the samples we have. And I don't remember my source, but Khatris indeed did have around 70%.

Also what do you think is the reason for elevated caucasus component? Is it an integration with the Scythians or were the original Aryans higher in caucasus component?

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## Ajai Ghale

save_ghenda said:


> See the difference, you are posting random pictures while I am posting ubber high castes regiments who probably make 10% or lower of Indian population.
> 
> So these are not rajput regiments?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rajput regiment, google it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dogra regiment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jaat regiment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fooking mochis look
> 
> 
> 
> Read this
> Horseplay in Harappa
> 
> Your desperation will not make any difference to real historical facts.


LAMO they are average Pakistani weak and inferior and the second pic of paramilitary not rajput regiment.

These are not random pics for example here is your Naval chief

*I don't know what is more frightening Pak navy of your pure Aryan Naval Chief *





Indian Naval chief


----------



## Kabira

ghoul said:


> Jatt Sikhs appear to be purer than Pakistan Jatts, but perhaps it's just the sample bias? Khatris have a relatively higher caucasus component than their compatriots judging by the samples we have. And I don't remember my source, but Khatris indeed did have around 70%.
> 
> Also what do you think is the reason for elevated caucasus component? Is it an integration with the Scythians or were the original Aryans higher in caucasus component?



If you mean by lower s indian then they have lower s indian then all of Pak tribes east of indus not necerarly just pak jatts. And hindu jaats in haryana seem to have even lower s indian then sikh jatts. I think reason is again mystery ne euro component, Indian punjab jatts/brahmins have mixed with haryana jaats/brahmins thats why they have high ne euro and lower caucasian then west punjabis. Its again depend on tribe since khatris look to have higher caucasian and lower ne euro. Also few sikh jatts also have higher caucasian and lower euro. But as a rule they mostly have higher euro then west punjabis.

I don't think its sampling bias because one don't need thousands of samples. And so far every Pakistani sampled have higher caucasian and lower ne euro. No idea why there is higher caucasian and lower ne euro component in west punjab to be honest.

If aryans had high ne euro in them then current day brahmins and haryana jaats are related to them. If they had higher caucasian then kalash people who have 20% are likely candidate. Remember brahmins spread out from Haryana if I am not wrong, thats why even Bengali brahmins have higher ne euro despite mixing.



Ajai Ghale said:


> LAMO they are average Pakistani weak and inferior and the second pic of paramilitary not rajput regiment.
> 
> These are not random pics for example here is your Naval chief
> 
> *I don't know what is more frightening Pak navy of your pure Aryan Naval Chief *
> View attachment 226116
> 
> 
> Indian Naval chief
> View attachment 226117
> 
> View attachment 226118



seem like you don't like indian high caste regiments photos, lol pure aryan. And you can post neil nitin photo to prove how Indians look, thats will be random selection. I only posted high caste regiments because thats the best India has to offer from their tiny pool of high caste population.  and that rajput regiment are rangers or what ever but they are rajputs.

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## Ajai Ghale

save_ghenda said:


> If you mean by lower s indian then they have lower s indian then all of Pak tribes east of indus not necerarly just pak jatts. And hindu jaats in haryana seem to have even lower s indian then sikh jatts. I think reason is again mystery ne euro component, Indian punjab jatts/brahmins have mixed with haryana jaats/brahmins thats why they have high ne euro and lower caucasian then west punjabis. Its again depend on tribe since khatris look to have higher caucasian and lower ne euro. Also few sikh jatts also have higher caucasian and lower euro. But as a rule they mostly have higher euro then west punjabis.
> 
> I don't think its sampling bias because one don't need thousands of samples. And so far every Pakistani sampled have higher caucasian and lower ne euro. No idea why there is higher caucasian and lower ne euro component in west punjab to be honest.
> 
> If aryans had high ne euro in them then current day brahmins and haryana jaats are related to them. If they had higher caucasian then kalash people who have 20% are likely candidate. Remember brahmins spread out from Haryana if I am not wrong, thats why even Bengali brahmins have higher ne euro despite mixing.
> 
> 
> 
> seem like you don't like indian high caste regiments photos, lol pure aryan. And you can post neil nitin photo to prove how Indians look, thats will be random selection. I only posted high caste regiments because thats the best India has to offer from their tiny pool of high caste population.  and that rajput regiment are rangers or what ever but they are rajputs.


Though i have many other pics of your army both new and old but i didn't posted them as some of you may get offended.... All the rest are are of your regular soldiers during Recent FATA ops,NLI and from Kargil.

Secondly when I post the Rajput regiment pics the insignia is clearly visible it is you who post the pics of paramilitary and call it Army.

Next time be careful what you post


----------



## Kabira

Ajai Ghale said:


> Though i have many other pics of your army both new and old but i didn't posted them as some of you may get offended.... All the rest are are of your regular soldiers during Recent FATA ops,NLI and from Kargil.
> 
> Secondly when I post the Rajput regiment pics the insignia is clearly visible it is you who post the pics of paramilitary and call it Army.
> 
> Next time be careful what you post



Even in your selective pak army photos they looked better then indian soldiers lol. I searched rajput regiment to get pictures. Google them, they are best India has to offer from tiny pool of high castes aryans.

Hell I am not even posting Pakistan FC or G-B forces photos who are from western Pakistan and much more lighter then aryan indians in these regiments.

And that indian navy chief you posted is punjabi khatri lmao.


----------



## Ajai Ghale

save_ghenda said:


> Even in your selective pak army photos they looked better then indian soldiers lol. I searched rajput regiment to get pictures. Google them, they are best India has to offer from tiny pool of high castes aryans.
> 
> Hell I am not even posting Pakistan FC or G-B forces photos who are from western Pakistan and much more lighter then aryan indians in these regiments.
> 
> And that indian navy chief you posted is punjabi khatri lmao.


I have several pics of FF soldiers believe me no Pakistani want to be see them and regarding the post you pics of your either Fat or 40 kg soldiers,you should know the reason why you lost every war and why we are natural athletes comparable with pak in Running,Long jump,Boxing,Wrestling and other sports where strength and stamina matters.

For example I posted the pic from Kargil war a 40kg NLI inayat Ali and a Indian jat who took bullets on his chest with pics.


----------



## halupridol

So whats up wid martial pendus,,,,got any info of ur mahapind in Mahabharat I guess it must be under foreign occupation even then


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## Kabira

Ajai Ghale said:


> I have several pics of FF soldiers believe me no Pakistani want to be see them and regarding the post you pics of your either Fat or 40 kg soldiers,you should know the reason why you lost every war and why we are natural athletes comparable with pak in Running,Long jump,Boxing,Wrestling and other sports where strength and stamina matters.
> 
> For example I posted the pic from Kargil war a 40kg NLI inayat Ali and a Indian jat who took bullets on his chest with pics.



They all looked better then mochi look that indian rajput/jat regiments have. Ofcourse its not my opinion but well known fact, hell you even posted some indian punjabi navy chief photo lmao. Out side Indian punjab, differences keep getting bigger. These people are kalash of India, thats how tiny their population is in India.

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## Ajai Ghale

save_ghenda said:


> They all looked better then mochi look that indian rajput/jat regiments have. Ofcourse its not my opinion but well known fact, hell you even posted some indian punjabi navy chief photo lmao. Out side Indian punjab, differences keep getting bigger. These people are kalash of India, thats how tiny their population is in India.


Scroll back few pages see those Bhangis once again except for the beard nothing is white not too mention weak physique and they even showing their Homo tendency.


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## Kabira

Ajai Ghale said:


> Scroll back few pages see those Bhangis once again except for the beard nothing is white not too mention weak physique and they even showing their Homo tendency.



Well you are delusional, simple as that. To you mochis look like aryans, its clear you are trolling.


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## Peshwa

save_ghenda said:


> No where near aryans? How did aryans look then?



The question is....how does anyone know what an Aryan looked like when everything from their origin to their immigration pattern is shrouded in mystery?
Somehow you seem to be retrofitting your own views of what Aryans looked like to support your cause..
Do explain how you came up with the Aryan prototypical look...


----------



## Kabira

Peshwa said:


> The question is....how does anyone know what an Aryan looked like when everything from their origin to their immigration pattern is shrouded in mystery?
> Somehow you seem to be retrofitting your own views of what Aryans looked like to support your cause..
> Do explain how you came up with the Aryan prototypical look...



Kalash in Pakistan language is close to original indo-aryan language. Kalash people have obviously mixed as genetic tests proves, but still have retained better their aryan features, language, culture and religion. And since we know aryans came via hindu kush, they seem to be ideal candidate for original aryans or indo-aryans.


----------



## Peshwa

save_ghenda said:


> Kalash in Pakistan language is close to original indo-aryan language. Kalash people have obviously mixed as genetic tests proves, but still have retained better their aryan features, language, culture and religion.



But how do you know that their facial features etc are such due to a greater influence of their closeness to Aryans than that of mixing with greeks, central asians etc over thousands of years?
Secondly you are confidently saying that they retained their Aryan features when NO ONE and I repeat NO ONE knows what the Aryans looked like
Have you a picture of this 5000 year old Aryan person to make this claim?

Lastly what was the genetic make up of the Aryans? or are you throwing darts and hoping to hit?


----------



## Kabira

Peshwa said:


> But how do you know that their facial features etc are such due to a greater influence of their closeness to Aryans than that of mixing with greeks, central asians etc?
> Secondly you are confidently saying that they retained their Aryan features when NO ONE and I repeat NO ONE knows what the Aryans looked like?
> Have you a picture of this 5000 year old Aryan person to make this claim?



We know aryans were light skinned and caucasians from sttepe. Kalash have mixed not with greeks but other people around them, I said they have retained their features somewhat because of isolation. Not that they look 100% like they did thousands of years ago when they first moved in.

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## Peshwa

save_ghenda said:


> We know aryans were light skinned and caucasians from sttepe. Kalash have mixed not with greeks but other people around them, I said they have retained their features somewhat because of isolation. Not that they look 100% like they did thousands of years ago when they first moved in.



First off my friend, the Central asians or even caucasians themselves have been conquered and mixed with through several millenia...so claiming that those living in the present day areas of Central Asia are the prototypes for those that live 5000 years ago is an assumption of massive proportions..
Given that Aryan invasion is a THEORY and NOT a fact...we have to take all this with a grain of salt...

Secondly, Aryans in vedic texts have been described as nobles...as you know, in the subcontinent, the difference in skin color existed mainly due to the kind of work one did (ie. toiling in sunny fields and open spaces vs. the nobility having the luxury of being in shade away from the sun..
For all we know, the Aryan could have been a lighter shade of brown given that nobility and NOT some caucasian looking Anglo saxon prototype you seem to be fixated with...
There really is no way to tell..

Next, if the Kalash people were the Aryans or the remnants of the same, where is their 5000 year old history? Where are their scriptures, their original written alphabet..all that the Aryans possessed...the social structure, their heiarchy should have some similarity to the Aryans no? We may not know what they looked like, but we do know that the people who created the vedic religion had way and habits...this should appear somewhere in the Kalash..
I mean the Kalash as you claim have been living in the same region for over 5K years...where is the evidence of the same?

To be honest, most of what you are claiming are major assumptions bordering hearsay...

Please address these issues..

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## Kabira

Peshwa said:


> First off my friend, the Central asians or even caucasians themselves have been conquered and mixed with through several millenia...so claiming that those living in the present day areas of Central Asia are the prototypes for those that live 5000 years ago is an assumption of massive proportions..
> Given that Aryan invasion is a THEORY and NOT a fact...we have to take all this with a grain of salt...
> 
> Secondly, Aryans in vedic texts have been described as nobles...as you know, in the subcontinent, the difference in skin color existed mainly due to the kind of work one did (ie. toiling in sunny fields and open spaces vs. the nobility having the luxury of being in shade away from the sun..
> For all we know, the Aryan could have been a lighter shade of brown given that nobility and NOT some caucasian looking Anglo saxon prototype you seem to be fixated with...
> There really is no way to tell..
> 
> Next, if the Kalash people were the Aryans or the remnants of the same, where is their 5000 year old history? Where are their scriptures, their original written alphabet..all that the Aryans possessed...the social structure, their heiarchy should have some similarity to the Aryans no? I mean the Kalash as you claim have been living in the same region for over 5K years...where is the evidence of the same?
> 
> To be honest, most of what you are claiming are major assumptions bordering hearsay...
> 
> Please address these issues..



Brother aryan is not theory anymore, maybe it was centuries ago but not anymore. No one will take you seriously if you talk about OIT. Kalash are not living in central asia but hindu kush range. Central Asia is mongloid now, but many thousands of years ago they were caucasians going by mummies found in Tarim Basin in China and other parts of central asia.

Aryans were not anglo saxon, just because they were light skinned doesn't make them europeans. And Kalash language, culture, religion etc is closer to original indo-aryans.


----------



## Peshwa

save_ghenda said:


> Brother aryan is not theory anymore, maybe it was centuries ago but not anymore. No one will take you seriously if you talk about OIT.



Sorry but I am not familiar with OIT..whats the unabbreviated version here?
..I've known of AIT..
Nevertheless, point being that its now common knowledge that it was an Immigration or Aryan migration than an Invasion..
It is professed that the group of languages and its people originated somewhere between India and Europe...Some say Central Asia, or even Anatolia..
Given the massive history of conquests and mixing of people in these regions, it cannot be ascertained 
a. exact place of origin
b. exact look and features...
Light skinned does not mean european look...it could be mongloid, it could be what presentt day Iranians are, or even the lighter brown north Indians...
All we know if that they were nobles...as per the text,..
So their lighter skin could be genetic as in the case of caucasians, or because of their status ie. not having to work in the fields etc..





> Kalash are not living in central asia but hindu kush range. Central Asia is mongloid now, but many thousands of years ago they were caucasians going by mummies found in Tarim Basin in China and other parts of central asia.



I am aware of the Kalash's locations my friend, but there are massive variations between the central asians and even the caucasians themselves..so what their look was cannot be ascertained..
Simply having fair skin does not equate to finding a connection..
Facial features etc are unknown..those which are affected by geography and external factors such as the environment..




> Aryans were not anglo saxon, just because they were light skinned doesn't make them europeans. And Kalash language, culture, religion etc is closer to original indo-aryans.



If your claim is based on a linguistic connection, I can work with it..
But please do point out the similarities in the culture that you have observed in the Kalash people that would make them remnants of the Aryans...and where is the evidence of religion?
What religion are the Kalash? Do they show evidence of Vedic religions?
Lastly, and most importantly, the Kalash should have a native alphabet..Which the Aryans possessed...
Where are the Kalash texts that show a similarity of the Alphabet?

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## Kabira

Peshwa said:


> Sorry but I am not familiar with OIT..whats the unabbreviated version here?
> ..I've known of AIT..
> Nevertheless, point being that its now common knowledge that it was an Immigration or Aryan migration than an Invasion..
> It is professed that the group of languages and its people originated somewhere between India and Europe...Some say Central Asia, or even Anatolia..
> Given the massive history of conquests and mixing of people in these regions, it cannot be ascertained
> a. exact place of origin
> b. exact look and features...
> Light skinned does not mean european look...it could be mongloid, it could be what presentt day Iranians are, or even the lighter brown north Indians...
> All we know if that they were nobles...as per the text,..
> So their lighter skin could be genetic as in the case of caucasians, or because of their status ie. not having to work in the fields etc..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am aware of the Kalash's locations my friend, but there are massive variations between the central asians and even the caucasians themselves..so what their look was cannot be ascertained..
> Simply having fair skin does not equate to finding a connection..
> Facial features etc are unknown..those which are affected by geography and external factors such as the environment..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your claim is based on a linguistic connection, I can work with it..
> But please do point out the similarities in the culture that you have observed in the Kalash people that would make them remnants of the Aryans...and where is the evidence of religion?
> What religion are the Kalash? Do they show evidence of Vedic religions?
> Lastly, and most importantly, the Kalash should have a native alphabet..Which the Aryans possessed...
> Where are the Kalash texts that show a similarity of the Alphabet?



In 2-3 thousand years facial features don't change unless you mix. People in that time can get tanned/darker but facial features changes with mixing. But since Kalash were living in relatively colder place for they didn't get much darker, but their average features changed little bit after mixing. Kalash actually don't look that different then other people around them in Hunza valley since these groups tend to have 20% caucasian component and lower s indian component of 20-22%. So not much difference there in genetics between kalash and other people around them. But here we are talking about religion and language.



''.[2] Kalash religion is similar to the religion that was practiced by Rigvedic aryans. Kalash have retained most of the Proto-Indo-Iranian religion (Indo-European religion). The Kalash people are unique in their customs and religion. The Hindukush area shares many of the traits of IIr. myths, ritual, society, and echoes many aspects of Ṛigvedic, but hardly of post-Ṛigvedic religion.[19] Kalash culture and belief system differs from the various ethnic groups surrounding them but is similar to that of the neighboring Nuristanis in northeast Afghanistan. In the 1970s there were a number of forced conversions. However, during the last two decades, protection by the Pakistani government has seen the Kalash double in number.[20]''

*Kalasha* (also known as _Kalasha-mondr_) is an Indo-European language in the Indo-Aryan branch spoken by the Kalash people, further classified as a Dardic language in the Chitral group.[3] The Kalasha language is phonologically atypical because it contrasts plain, long, nasal, and retroflex vowels as well as combinations of these (Heegård & Mørch 2004).
According to one scholar, the Kalasha language is the closest modern language to Ancient Sanskrit (old Indo-Aryan) closely followed by Western Dardic language, Khowar. [4]

Kalash people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kalash language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They indeed are only people who are closest to original indo-ayans.

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## Peshwa

save_ghenda said:


> In 2-3 thousand years facial features don't change unless you mix. People in that time can get tanned/darker but facial features changes with mixing. But since Kalash were living in relatively colder place for they didn't get much darker, but their average features changed little bit after mixing. Kalash actually don't look that different then other people around them in Hunza valley since these groups tend to have 20% caucasian component and lower s indian component of 20-22%. So not much difference there in genetics between kalash and other people around them. But here we are talking about religion and language.
> 
> 
> 
> ''.[2] Kalash religion is similar to the religion that was practiced by Rigvedic aryans. Kalash have retained most of the Proto-Indo-Iranian religion (Indo-European religion). The Kalash people are unique in their customs and religion. The Hindukush area shares many of the traits of IIr. myths, ritual, society, and echoes many aspects of Ṛigvedic, but hardly of post-Ṛigvedic religion.[19] Kalash culture and belief system differs from the various ethnic groups surrounding them but is similar to that of the neighboring Nuristanis in northeast Afghanistan. In the 1970s there were a number of forced conversions. However, during the last two decades, protection by the Pakistani government has seen the Kalash double in number.[20]''
> 
> *Kalasha* (also known as _Kalasha-mondr_) is an Indo-European language in the Indo-Aryan branch spoken by the Kalash people, further classified as a Dardic language in the Chitral group.[3] The Kalasha language is phonologically atypical because it contrasts plain, long, nasal, and retroflex vowels as well as combinations of these (Heegård & Mørch 2004).
> According to one scholar, the Kalasha language is the closest modern language to Ancient Sanskrit (old Indo-Aryan) closely followed by Western Dardic language, Khowar. [4]
> 
> Kalash people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Kalash language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> They indeed are only people who are closest to original indo-ayans.



Thanks, good read...

There indeed seems to be a connection between the Vedic Hinduism and the Kalash religion, though with slight variations..some traditions indicate a similarity, but others dont...
I could easily point those out if you please..

Nevertheless, the origins are still disputed with some scholars throwing their weight behind the Indo-Aryan origins, while others claiming the greek ancestry...
either way, both are hypothesis and none has been proven as yet...

The language angle is the strongest indicator of the connection so far, but their look is still debatable..
SIndo-Aryan languages are spoken from India to Europe and you know how the color and facial features differ in this vast landscape..

I am still perplexed though and a question you haven't addressed is, Why arent there any texts or native alphabet of the Kalash people? I mean the Aryans were pretty advanced linguistically with a native script... since the Rig Veda, modern hinduism, culture etc was well documented through vedic scriptures...shouldn't the Kalash have a similar tradition of scribe?
I tried to find a Kalash script but none exists...
Can you brush on this angle?

The Kalash population is miniscule but if they are the last bastions of the Indo-Aryan race, they should be preserved as strongly as the tiger or your beloved Ghenda...

good topic nevetheless, any other info you may have from resources on this topic is appreciated...


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## Kabira

Peshwa said:


> Thanks, good read...
> 
> There indeed seems to be a connection between the Vedic Hinduism and the Kalash religion, though with slight variations..some traditions indicate a similarity, but others dont...
> I could easily point those out if you please..
> 
> Nevertheless, the origins are still disputed with some scholars throwing their weight behind the Indo-Aryan origins, while others claiming the greek ancestry...
> either way, both are hypothesis and none has been proven as yet...
> 
> The language angle is the strongest indicator of the connection so far, but their look is still debatable..
> SIndo-Aryan languages are spoken from India to Europe and you know how the color and facial features differ in this vast landscape..
> 
> I am still perplexed though and a question you haven't addressed is, Why arent there any texts or native alphabet of the Kalash people? I mean the Aryans were pretty advanced linguistically with a native script... since the Rig Veda, modern hinduism, culture etc was well documented through vedic scriptures...shouldn't the Kalash have a similar tradition of scribe?
> I tried to find a Kalash script but none exists...
> Can you brush on this angle?
> 
> The Kalash population is miniscule but if they are the last bastions of the Indo-Aryan race, they should be preserved as strongly as the tiger or your beloved Ghenda...
> 
> good topic nevetheless, any other info you may have from resources on this topic is appreciated...



Come on, rig vedic aryans never wrote anything down...... I though you already knew this? Rig veda was written down probably in Gupta era around 4-6th century AD. 2 thousand years later at least. Kalash never had their own script, it was invented recently.

And that Greek bs has been long disproven. Basically europeans saw some fair skinned people in south asia and came up with lots of theories. But their euro centric racist bs doesn't disprove actual original aryans.


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## Peshwa

save_ghenda said:


> Come on, rig vedic aryans never wrote anything down...... I though you already knew this? Rig veda was written down probably in Gupta era around 4-6th century AD. 2 thousand years later at least. Kalash never had their own script, it was invented recently.



Well then how could there be a pre-rig vedic religion and practices and post rig vedic religion and practices?
The Kalash are said to have closer practices to the former...
Obviously the distinction exits because the Rig veda had its inception during the Aryan times..
If it were written 2000 years later, how does one demarcate these?

The original Rig Veda was written during the Iron age...aka 1200 BC or so...I think you are mistaken my friend....




> And that Greek bs has been long disproven. Basically europeans saw some fair skinned people in south asia and came up with lots of theories. But their euro centric racist bs doesn't disprove actual original aryans.



Im no expert on the Kalash...but from my reading, all I gathered was that the two sources of origins are hypothesized...
And even you know that a theory and Hypothesis need to be proven before giving weight...
Let's agree to disagree..


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## Bang Galore

Peshwa said:


> Secondly, Aryans in vedic texts have been described as nobles....



The word Aryan while meaning nobility was used in a very limited sense in the Rig veda. The Rig veda itself is a book where the only the 5 principal_ "lunar"_ tribes are mentioned, one of the most important tribes in India, the Ikshvakus_ (of Rama fame) _barely get a mention in because they are a _"solar"_ tribe. Even among the "_Chandravanshis",_ the Rig veda is primarily a book of the Purus & more specifically of the Bharatas, a sub-tribe of the Purus. In the Rig veda, the word _"Aryan" _is used almost exclusively with the Bharatas/Purus, in essence it was what a particular tribe called themselves_ (not a whole bunch of invaders/immigrants)_. Over time as their influence spread, this was to extend, like the book itself, to a much larger area, eventually encompassing a large geographical area which was called Aryavarta. It also the same case of how the word Bharat _(from the pre-Rig vedic king of the Bharatas) _was to expand itself to mean the whole area south of the Himalayas _(from east of the Indus)_ till the ocean by the time of the Mahabharata.

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## Kabira

Peshwa said:


> Well then how could there be a pre-rig vedic religion and practices and post rig vedic religion and practices?
> The Kalash are said to have closer practices to the former...
> Obviously the distinction exits because the Rig veda had its inception during the Aryan times..
> If it were written 2000 years later, how does one demarcate these?
> 
> The original Rig Veda was written during the Iron age...aka 1200 BC or so...I think you are mistaken my friend....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im no expert on the Kalash...but from my reading, all I gathered was that the two sources of origins are hypothesized...
> And even you know that a theory and Hypothesis need to be proven before giving weight...
> Let's agree to disagree..



Nope, RV was written down in 4-6th century ad, google it. Before it was passed down orally for centuries, in fact thousands of years.


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## KingMamba

scionoftheindus said:


> Not ivc you better use the term sindhu saraswati civilisation.



LMaoooo Indians making up terms now, reported for trolling.


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## Bang Galore

KingMamba said:


> LMaoooo Indians making up terms now, reported for trolling.




It's primarily because of such arguments that most professionals in the field use the term Harappan civilsation, using the convention of naming it after the first find.


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## Roybot

save_ghenda said:


> *You follow religion of invaders *and speak aryan language. Unless you are dravidian, but even dravidian are hindus while speaking non-aryan language.



Bit rich coming from a Pakistan

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## Rajesh12379

Roybot said:


> Bit rich coming from a Pakistan



They are programmed not to see the irony of the statement. 

Its not just the religion but they even use the pre-Islamic names and ape the culture of desert bedouins.

And apparently "lick the Arab balls" too as per a "think tank". 



Atanz said:


> *You don't have to lick our balls for that but you could say 'thank you' to us.*



Of course, all the licking still doesn't produce much results. Apparently. They are still Mishkeen in the land of the Arabs.

This frustration drives some of them to belated claim links to (and even ownership of) the religion of their pre-conversion ancestors and transpose their own Arab ball licking (that is a specialty of their current belief system) onto others. They just are unable to see that others have a very different value system from theirs.

Even the supposedly literate ones (calling them educated will be a stretch) and having resources available to get rid of this ignorance (jahiliyat) are unable to do that...



Bang Galore said:


> It's primarily because of such arguments that most professionals in the field use the term Harappan civilsation, using the convention of naming it *after the first find*.



The first excavation was done as Kalibangan in Rajasthan but was abandoned midway and was related to the same vast civilization much later.

Else it would have been known by the right name much earlier.


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## my2cents

Atanz said:


> The term India was proposed by English in 1600s
> The term Indos was proposed by Greeks in referance to Sindh first ..
> So ....
> 
> BTW If we changed the name of Pakistan to for example "*Sindia"* or *"Gandhara*" or "*Gedrosia"* would that suddenly satisfty you guy's although frankly I don't know whay business it is of you guy's what we call our land in the past?



"*Sindia"* or *"Gandhara*" or "*Gedrosia"*---->  

Sure, why not....Gandhara sounds better.

Any way Pakistan is a misnomer. You guys forgot to include Baluchistan.



save_ghenda said:


> I don't take anyone who have Kushan ruler surname seriously, no offence but it seem like Indians are in love with these foreign rulers.
> 
> Mahabharat was composed by aryans, its hardly representive of Indian culture.



Does it mean you guys will introduce Mahabharata in your school texts. Try proposing Mahabharata as your ancient text to your school board and see the reaction.


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## Viper0011.

my2cents said:


> Does it mean you guys will introduce Mahabharata in your school texts. Try proposing Mahabharata as your ancient text to your school board and see the reaction.



I think they should introduce a comedy class for kids and tech them about the "Vedic" times, where IPAD and IPhones were being used 5000 years ago bu Hindu population of the world as your leaders and Pandits suggest. Where Flat and Curved screen TV's existed with LED technology, where people had smart devices able to send talk, email and text 5000 years ago, Lamborghini and Ferrari like cars had turbo-fans in them (a problem that Chinese can't solve as of today and may be they should look into the vedic time engineering lol), they had planes which would travel from India to Mars in less than 6 hours and the flight had an Indian buffet and Wine served during inter-galaxy flight. 

Yea....the Pakistanis should teach that instead!


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## Rajesh12379

Viper0011. said:


> I think they should introduce a comedy class for kids and tech them about the "Vedic" times, where IPAD and IPhones were being used 5000 years ago bu Hindu population of the world as your leaders and Pandits suggest. Where Flat and Curved screen TV's existed with LED technology, where people had smart devices able to send talk, email and text 5000 years ago, Lamborghini and Ferrari like cars had turbo-fans in them (a problem that Chinese can't solve as of today and may be they should look into the vedic time engineering lol), they had planes which would travel from India to Mars in less than 6 hours and the flight had an Indian buffet and Wine served during inter-galaxy flight.
> 
> Yea....the Pakistanis should teach that instead!



Don't worry about Mahabharata or the Vedic times. It just has nothing to with with Pakistan or Islam.

You can focus on Quran and Hadhith and how *you *conquered Spain. That is all you need.


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## Viper0011.

Rajesh12379 said:


> *Don't worry about Mahabharata or the Vedic times. It just has nothing to with with Pakistan or Islam.
> 
> You can focus on Quran and Hadhith and how you conquered Spain. That is all you need*.



I don't have religious affiliations, not sure if you read my posts. All of you are following your own Koran and Hadith. Isn't it your Hinduism that's forcing you to kill minorities inside India for decades? Isn't it your religious context and extremist Hindu followers which have killed million starting before and from Kashmir and then to many states in India?
Isn't it the great Hinduism that the Indian extremists like the BJP, RSS, Shiv Sena follow and support ONE HINDU INDIA by 2030 whether by force or killings.
Radical Islam has killed thousands of people lately, radical Hindusim has killed millions. How come there is no debate on that? Terrorism is terrorism, anyone killing innocent civilians should be classified as terrorist, whether its a Hindu extremists, an Islamist extremist or simple white guy just trying to find nigger*s to shoot. This is 2015, I think extremists from all religions and races should get that. Apparently, you people still think you live in the stone age. There is a lot the world can accomplish if the organized religion wasn't involved and it remained in people's personal lives, not enforced upon others.
I think its still a very cool idea to think people half naked 6000 years ago, having IPAD's and IPHONES and cars that flew.....wait, how come those people didn't learn to cover themselves up all the way in cold if they were that advanced? Love it, the great "Vedic" times!


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## AugenBlick

Viper0011. said:


> I don't have religious affiliations, not sure if you read my posts. All of you are following your own Koran and Hadith. Isn't it your Hinduism that's forcing you to kill minorities inside India for decades? Isn't it your religious context and extremist Hindu followers which have killed million starting before and from Kashmir and then to many states in India?
> Isn't it the great Hinduism that the Indian extremists like the BJP, RSS, Shiv Sena follow and support ONE HINDU INDIA by 2030 whether by force or killings.
> Radical Islam has killed thousands of people lately, radical Hindusim has killed millions. How come there is no debate on that? Terrorism is terrorism, anyone killing innocent civilians should be classified as terrorist, whether its a Hindu extremists, an Islamist extremist or simple white guy just trying to find nigger*s to shoot. This is 2015, I think extremists from all religions and races should get that. Apparently, you people still think you live in the stone age. There is a lot the world can accomplish if the organized religion wasn't involved and it remained in people's personal lives, not enforced upon others.
> I think its still a very cool idea to think people half naked 6000 years ago, having IPAD's and IPHONES and cars that flew.....wait, how come those people didn't learn to cover themselves up all the way in cold if they were that advanced? Love it, the great "Vedic" times!



Whatever it is, it has nothing to do with you.


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## my2cents

Viper0011. said:


> I think they should introduce a comedy class for kids and tech them about the "Vedic" times, where IPAD and IPhones were being used 5000 years ago bu Hindu population of the world as your leaders and Pandits suggest. Where Flat and Curved screen TV's existed with LED technology, where people had smart devices able to send talk, email and text 5000 years ago, Lamborghini and Ferrari like cars had turbo-fans in them (a problem that Chinese can't solve as of today and may be they should look into the vedic time engineering lol), they had planes which would travel from India to Mars in less than 6 hours and the flight had an Indian buffet and Wine served during inter-galaxy flight.
> 
> Yea....the Pakistanis should teach that instead!



It is better than what is being taught in your madrassas. At least they will have a good laugh.


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## Rajesh12379

Viper0011. said:


> I don't have religious affiliations, not sure if you read my posts. All of you are following your own Koran and Hadith. Isn't it your Hinduism that's forcing you to kill minorities inside India for decades? Isn't it your religious context and extremist Hindu followers which have killed million starting before and from Kashmir and then to many states in India?
> Isn't it the great Hinduism that the Indian extremists like the BJP, RSS, Shiv Sena follow and support ONE HINDU INDIA by 2030 whether by force or killings.



The post just shows lack of ability to be objective and look at facts. Just pathetic hyperbolic statements.

In India, minorities have flourished while in Pakistan and Bangladesh (and also many other Islamic countries elsewhere) the minorities have been almost wiped out.

One just has to look at the population ratio of the minorities in Pakistan and Bangladesh and India and its trend and the sheer stupidity of such comments becomes obvious.

The only genocide in millions in the subcontinent recently has been done by Pakistan (mainly the Western part).

First during the genocide and ethnic cleansing during partition (that saw the non Muslims reduced from 19% to less than 2 %) and the subsequent persecution and forced conversion and abduction of their women. The population share has been going down ever sunce, just like in BD it has gone down from 35% to 8% now.

Second the genocide and rapine of East Pakistan (3 millions murdedred in cold blood and 2 lac to 4 lac women raped).

*Not one criminal punished in both these massive genocides and rapine! Then these people talk of minority rights shamelessly!

You see the same thing happening to Christians in the middle East, as the recent BBC documentary (Kill the Christians) shows.*



> *Radical Islam has killed thousands of people lately, radical Hindusim has killed millions. How come there is no debate on that? *Terrorism is terrorism, anyone killing innocent civilians should be classified as terrorist, whether its a Hindu extremists, an Islamist extremist or simple white guy just trying to find nigger*s to shoot. This is 2015, I think extremists from all religions and races should get that. Apparently, you people still think you live in the stone age. There is a lot the world can accomplish if the organized religion wasn't involved and it remained in people's personal lives, not enforced upon others.



There is no debate on that because it is simply not true! 

All this Hindutva genocide in millions is nothing but your fertile imagination based on hatred which is part of your upbringing and curriculum. It effects even those who may not be very observant religiously. They can be as hate filled bigots (or more) as Islamic fanatics.



> I think its still a very cool idea to think people half naked 6000 years ago, having IPAD's and IPHONES and cars that flew.....wait, how come those people didn't learn to cover themselves up all the way in cold if they were that advanced? Love it, the great "Vedic" times!



I will tell you what is cooler, the idea that if your wife doesn't satisfy you at night, angels will curse her all night. See what a merciful divine will reveal this!

Or the sun setting in muddy waters, djinns flying all over, devil sitting on your ears during prayer, people jumping and splitting the moon with their sword (confirmed by NASA moon mission), genetics confirming that the Jews and Christians became apes and dogs.

You have enough cool ideas in the final and perfect revelations of your ideology. You don't have to look for it elsewhere.

That is haram anyway.


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## ghoul

Peshwa said:


> Sorry but I am not familiar with OIT..whats the unabbreviated version here?
> ..I've known of AIT..
> Nevertheless, point being that its now common knowledge that it was an Immigration or Aryan migration than an Invasion..
> It is professed that the group of languages and its people originated somewhere between India and Europe...Some say Central Asia, or even Anatolia..
> Given the massive history of conquests and mixing of people in these regions, it cannot be ascertained
> a. exact place of origin
> b. exact look and features...
> Light skinned does not mean european look...it could be mongloid, it could be what presentt day Iranians are, or even the lighter brown north Indians...
> All we know if that they were nobles...as per the text,..
> So their lighter skin could be genetic as in the case of caucasians, or because of their status ie. not having to work in the fields etc..



They had blonde hair and blue eyes. Check Tarim basin mummies and Scythians mummies from Altai republic. I can't post them here, for they might be a bit too graphic. The Tarim mummies even showed genetic similarities to Indus Valley people(Pakistanis) and Pashtuns and Tajiks.

I would imagine they'd have facial features from both the Europeans and upper caste south asians. Feature wise they wouldn't look like any modern population in my opinion. Also, Aryans(Indo-Iranians) don't appear to be "pure", as they were slightly mixed with Siberians and mongoloids. Andronovo culture is thought to have been manned by them. Aryans(along with Scythians) all contained R1a Y-lineage, which is missing outside of north-western India except for in Brahmins.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Atanz said:


> And don't forget the Hindu god Vishnava below that has been attested by Gopolsharwamiteli in Rajapandasana wherein it is told that vishava holds Kolasparata and stands on Mumabaikhar with many experts agree in Wikihindupedia. ( *In plain English a Hindu god holds earth up )* and the proof is he is wearing loincloth which proves he is Hindu
> 
> Edit: Guy's have a look at that pretend map. They have rivers on it going across Thar Desert all the way down to Rann of Kutch ha ha ha. Now we be doing* re-doing* geograhy. This is absurd beyond belief. These guy's are worse then the most neurotic Mullah.



Is this a greek man ?


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## Peshwa

ghoul said:


> They had blonde hair and blue eyes. Check Tarim basin mummies and Scythians mummies from Altai republic. I can't post them here, for they might be a bit too graphic. The Tarim mummies even showed genetic similarities to Indus Valley people(Pakistanis) and Pashtuns and Tajiks.
> 
> I would imagine they'd have facial features from both the Europeans and upper caste south asians. Feature wise they wouldn't look like any modern population in my opinion. Also, Aryans(Indo-Iranians) don't appear to be "pure", as they were slightly mixed with Siberians and mongoloids. Andronovo culture is thought to have been manned by them. Aryans(along with Scythians) all contained R1a Y-lineage, which is missing outside of north-western India except for in Brahmins.



Thanks, will have to read more on this and get back to you...



save_ghenda said:


> Nope, RV was written down in 4-6th century ad, google it. Before it was passed down orally for centuries, in fact thousands of years.




RIGVEDA ( Sanskrit: “The Knowledge of Verses”) also spelled Ṛgveda , the oldest of the sacred books of Hinduism, composed in an ancient form of Sanskrit about *1500 bce*, in what is now the Punjab region of India and Pakistan. It consists of a collection of 1,028 poems grouped into 10 “circles” (_mandala_s). It is generally agreed that the first and last books were created later than the middle books. The Rigveda was preserved orally before it was written down about *300 bc*
*
Rigveda | Hindu literature | Britannica.com

W*ikipedia is the source that mentions the Gupta period (4th-6th century AD)...as per your claim
I was right about 1500-1200 BCE as the inception of the RigVeda, but Brittanica says that it wasnt written until 300BCE..

Nevertheless, let me do my research and get back to you on this as there is conflicting info...Thanks nevertheless, good to learn some new things and clarify some doubts..

@joeshearer might be able to help us out with a more informed answer....


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