# CPEC Turns into a Chinese Albatross on Pakistan’s neck – Asia Sentinel



## Laozi

*CPEC Turns into a Chinese Albatross on Pakistan’s neck – Asia Sentinel*







On Nov. 24, a federal minister told Pakistan’s Senate that 91 percent of revenues to be generated from the US$62 billion Gwadar port and the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor that would transport the port’s imports would go to China.

Pakistan faces repaying US$16 billion in loans obtained from Chinese banks for its development, the free-trade zone surrounding it, and all communications infrastructure, at annual rates of more than 13 percent, inclusive of 7 percent insurance charges. The Pakistan government obviously has no answers on how it will repay the loan over the next 40 years out of the 9 percent of revenues the government will retain. China expects to recoup its own cost of development of the CPEC from the first four years of earnings.

Understandably gun-shy over the one-sidedness of China’s generosity, on Nov. 15 the Pakistani government turned down an offer of assistance by Beijing for construction of the US$14 billion Diamer-Bhasha Dam in Azad Kashmir and said it would remove the project from the CPEC. The cost of the dam project has zoomed from US$5 billion to US$14 billion, with international lenders linking serious conditions with the provision of funding.

Pakistan thus is just one of several nations, including Sri Lanka, to have discovered the exorbitant conditions China is attaching to its massive One Belt, One Road bid to

“The real issue will come when some of those countries, particularly in central Asia, have to pay back some of the loans that were acquired in the Belt and Road Initiative,” Steve Tsang of London’s School of Oriental and African Studies told the Voice of America radio network. “And most of those countries will have problems paying back those loans.” 

Given past practice, Pakistan will either look to the West and particularly the International Monetary Fund for loans to re-pay Chinese loans – or it will rely on Beijing for soft loans to repay the CPEC loans, thus getting caught in a vicious cycle.

In addition, what is likely to cause a lot more damage to Pakistan’s potential earning is the tax concessions and tax holidays over 20 to 40 years that Pakistan has granted to contractors and sub-contractors associated with the Chinese state-run China Overseas Port Holding Company for imports of equipment, material, plant, appliances and accessories for port and special economic zone.

According to reports, the 923-hectare free zone, which is to include factories, logistics hubs, warehousing facilities and display centers, will all be exempt both from customs duties and from provincial and federal taxes.

On the contrary, no comparable tax breaks and incentives have been provided to Pakistan’s local companies. This is likely to naturally reduce the demand for made-in-Pakistan goods because these goods, compared to Chinese goods, will be much costlier.

Even outside the free-zones, the Chinese companies’ activity amounts to disguised looting of Pakistan’s natural resources. The reason for this looting, in part, is Pakistan’s own ill-preparedness to protect its interests and revenues.

For instance, Pakistan doesn’t have a regulatory framework to oversee the export of the country’s natural resources, for example marble, allowing the Chinese companies to bypass Pakistan’s processing industries, which could otherwise be a major contributor to the country’s fast-falling value-added exports.

According to a report by the State Bank of Pakistan, _Marble and Marble Products_, “China is the biggest importer of marble from Pakistan; however, the marble exported to China also includes semi-processed marble, which is then re-exported from China after value addition, which is hurting Pakistan’s marble industry to a significant extent.”

It isn’t surprising therefore that Pakistan’s share in bi-lateral trade with China stood at, in 2016, US$41.9 billion as against China’s share of almost US$ 17 billion. Pakistan’s exports to China have actually fallen in value while China’s exports have increased, raising concerns that the 1,300-km Karakoram Highway linking the port to the Chinese border is a one-way street.

Besides the fact that the Chinese companies are almost operating in Pakistan as if they were operating in China, another startling concern is that these companies are bringing in shiploads of Chinese workers, and thus only rarely form genuine partnerships with Pakistani companies. Consequently, there is little or no transfer of skills or technology, which is one reason why Pakistan cannot prevent the import of marble to China as China has the right technology to process marble while Pakistan doesn’t.

That Chinese companies are bringing in their own workers is an illustration of the internal logic of CPEC whereby China is not only expanding its industrial reach, establishing new markets but also re-locating its excess labor as well. This, according to Pakistani economist Farrukh Saleem, is how China’s labor problem connects with CPEC and Pakistan: “China produces 60 percent of the global cement output. [But] domestic demand has gone down sharply, and the CPC would have to cut roughly 390 million tonnes of cement capacity. And that would mean unemployed cement workers.” Hence the imperative of re-locating this excess labor to countries like to Pakistan.

Similarly, China’s metal smelting and rolling industry, which employs 3.63 million workers, has annual production of at 800 million tonnes as against domestic demand of 400 million tonnes, indicating the need for a sharp cut in the industry and relocation of the excess labor.

As such, by 2023, the city of Gwadar alone is expected to see 500,000 Chinese workers and professionals. Accordingly, the China Pak Investment Corporation (CPIC) announced last month a partnership with Top International Engineering Corporation (TIEC), a Chinese state-owned company, to develop China Pak Hills, the first Chinese built Master Community in Gwadar that will accommodate about 500,000 Chinese by 2023.

Therefore, with Pakistan all set to take a deep plunge into ‘Chinese communism’ and create many mini-Chinas in Pakistan, hopes of reaping the benefits out of the ambitious project have largely been misplaced and a result of misguided and misperceived policy of the Pakistan government.

But Pakistan has little to no strength in its economy to refuse the Chinese capital. With its foreign exchange reserves standing at US$19 billion and with its external debts standing at US$78 billion, there appears little to no choice for Pakistan other than to jump on the Chinese bandwagon. Still, it all depends upon what Pakistan can extract out of its partnership with the Chinese. So far, however, it is the Chinese who seem perfectly placed to benefit both strategically and economically.

*Salman Rafi Sheikh*_ (kingsalmanrafi@gmail.com) is a Pakistani academic and long-time contributor to Asia Sentinel_

https://www.asiasentinel.com/econ-business/cpec-chinese-albatross-pakistan-neck/

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## Joe Shearer

That's it. 

You're up for the high jump. Nice having known you.

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## takeitwithyou

Here is what I've read and a guaranteed reaction from Pakistani soon coming forth. It flies in the face of any logic, but hey they are so emotionally vested in China that they actually say to....

1. China says it will hire 500,000 Chinese workers and not Pakistanis for CPEC- *PDF Pakistani replies here actually insult their own citizen's capabilities and rejoice about this new*s.

2. China will take a ridiculous 91% of all earnings for 40 years. *PDF Pakistani says, wow we get 9% of (yet to be determined actual earning)toll charges.*

3. China seeks their military presence and marines in the sovereign Pakistani soil. *PDF Pakistanis talk about giving up more land to China*

Only a few weeks ago we saw an article here which said Pakistan refused to take a loan from China for a Dam project, which Pakistan could do for hundreds of millions whereas China was charging them almost couple of billions to do the same and cost high interest on the loan. Now imagine how they are fleecing Pakistan on CPEC.
Ultimately, they are doing a Sri Lanka on Pakistan; it's all about making it impossible to pay back and in return forced to give up sovereign land rights for 100 years. A coup of sovereign land without a single bloodshed due to war.

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## BHarwana

lol. USA got free air base in Pakistan until they attacked a post on Pak afghan border at least China is Paying. Now question about China in Pakistan is that the local Pakistanis think China as of brothers and not foreigners. Pakistanis have no problem with China. Now China is paying for the port but if China would have asked a free access to the port trust me Pakistan would have given that. Pakistanis love Chinese and they love Pakistan. Pak-China friendship is not based on mutual issues but rather it is on a cultural and traditional relation that dates back to the times of original silk road route. China has helped Pakistan on many occasions at it's personal cost. Now lets make it simple this is a military alliance and friendship of cultures. Tomorrow if for any reason China and USA go to war Pakistan will always stand with China, if the Gov will go against the Pakistanis will over through the Gov now I made this statement to provide the actual sentiments of Pakistani people towards China and similarly the same case goes for Turkey. It is that Pakistanis mentally accept Chinese as partners. Many Pakistanis will be divided on USA or any other nation but on Chinese Pakistanis have good views and stand united to be a friend. It is a blessing China is paying for the Port Pakistan would have given it for free.

My suggestion to the world is cry a river build a bridge and get over it. Pakistan China relation is not gonna break.

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## Laozi

BHarwana said:


> It is a blessing China is paying for the Port Pakistan would have given it for free.



_*Pakistan faces repaying US$16 billion in loans obtained from Chinese banks* for its development, the free-trade zone surrounding it, and all communications infrastructure, *at annual rates of more than 13 percent,* inclusive of 7 percent insurance charges. *The Pakistan government obviously has no answers on how it will repay the loan over the next 40 years out of the 9 percent of revenues the government will retain.* 

* China expects to recoup its own cost of development of the CPEC from the first four years of earnings.*_


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## Path-Finder

Its between China & Pakistan and most importantly *NO* concern of indians.

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## hussain0216

As long as we dont deal with indians or hindus then were alllll good!!!

Thanx for your thoughts

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## BHarwana

Laozi said:


> *Pakistan faces repaying US$16 billion in loans obtained from Chinese banks* for its development, the free-trade zone surrounding it, and all communications infrastructure, *at annual rates of more than 13 percent,* inclusive of 7 percent insurance charges. *The Pakistan government obviously has no answers on how it will repay the loan over the next 40 years out of the 9 percent of revenues the government will retain.*
> 
> * China expects to recoup its own cost of development of the CPEC from the first four years of earnings.*



Yes Pakistan has to repay the loan but on the other hand Pakistan will also get money from the lease plus a 9% earning from China. It is like Pakistan will get the rent and Plus the 9% so it is not a bad deal and repaying back is easy once CPEC is active cause the Tax collection will be much higher the worlds second largest importer will ship oil and gas from Pakistan It will use many Pakistani services on it's way to reach China. Chinese will be buying oil from Pakistani fuel stations and that fuel is heavily taxed in Pakistan. In Pakistan the fuel is taxed 100% so just bring that into account this is just one aspect. Now if this is a so dead deal for Pakistan why the hell is Indian media so fucking screaming? CPEC will decrease unemployment rate by 15% not because the jobs it will create but because of the new business that will sprung to accommodate it. Already the land value in Gawadar has increased by 1000% and is bringing in a lot of foreign exchange. Plus Baluchistan and FATA will gain new industry. There will be factories and business that will support the project plus the tourism will flourish. you are just counting the 13% loan pay back and 9% earning but not counting the lease that will be paid by China.

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## SBUS-CXK

hussain0216 said:


> As long as we dont deal with indians or hindus then were alllll good!!!
> 
> Thanx for your thoughts


No, We need to do business with the Indians!

In a word, Pakistan is the best brother, India is the best customer.

*Chinese firm exports transistor chips for Indian locomotives*

*Exports eight-inch chips to India*

CRRC Dalian obtains metro vehicle export order from Nagpur, India

*China’s CRRC to provide 14 subway trains with 112 carriages to India*

*China’s high-speed train maker to get USD 30 billion for export push*

*China set to export trains for Mumbai Metro Rail project*

*China's leading train manufacturer starts operation in India*

*Kolkata Metro Unveils Design of CNR Dalian Trains*

*Chinese Corporation CRRC to supply coaches to Nagpur Metro*

*Chinese firm gets Rs 604 contract for Mumbai metro rail proj*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_1_(Mumbai_Metro)

Oh, btw, Delhi metro escalator also comes from the Chinese company - Canny.

http://www.canny-elevator.com/en/new_info.aspx?newsid=956&NewsCateId=168

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## war&peace

takeitwithyou said:


> Here is what I've read and a guaranteed reaction from Pakistani soon coming forth. It flies in the face of any logic, but hey they are so emotionally vested in China that they actually say to....
> 
> 1. China says it will hire 500,000 Chinese workers and not Pakistanis for CPEC- *PDF Pakistani replies here actually insult their own citizen's capabilities and rejoice about this new*s.
> 
> 2. China will take a ridiculous 91% of all earnings for 40 years. *PDF Pakistani says, wow we get 9% of (yet to be determined actual earning)toll charges.*
> 
> 3. China seeks their military presence and marines in the sovereign Pakistani soil. *PDF Pakistanis talk about giving up more land to China*
> 
> Only a few weeks ago we saw an article here which said Pakistan refused to take a loan from China for a Dam project, which Pakistan could do for hundreds of millions whereas China was charging them almost couple of billions to do the same and cost high interest on the loan. Now imagine how they are fleecing Pakistan on CPEC.
> Ultimately, they are doing a Sri Lanka on Pakistan; it's all about making it impossible to pay back and in return forced to give up sovereign land rights for 100 years. A coup of sovereign land without a single bloodshed due to war.


What is the credible source of this "precious" info may I ask? I hope it is not from the rear.

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## Indus Pakistan

Laozi said:


> Top International Engineering Corporation (TIEC), a Chinese state-owned company, to develop China Pak Hills, the first Chinese built Master Community in Gwadar that will accommodate about 500,000 Chinese by 2023.


Yehhhh. When the 500,000 Chinese have moved to Gwadar in swanky new city by 2023 I will visit Gwadar and buy a apartment there. Then go enjoy some real Chinese food. Can't wait. I am hoping Cathay Pacific or Chinese Airlines do flights from UK to Gwadar. And I suspect 1,000s of other Brittish-Pakistanis will folow suit.

Great times ahead ...

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## Solomon2

The article is a bit unfair as the Chinese capital investment is sizable and not without risk and therefore deserves a generous return. However, the official terms of the CPEC agreements are not public. This isn't right at all. Are Chinese returns fair or excessive? Profit or revenue based? Do Pakistani shippers get free transit to China or must they pay more than the Chinese do? What property in Baluchistan will be administered by CPEC and what will remain in the hands of local governments?

There are many big questions and the answers are known only to a few. Everyone, inside and outside the country, should know what's going on, just as the Panama Canal arrangements between Panama and the United States were public information.


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## takeitwithyou

war&peace said:


> What is the credible source of this "precious" info may I ask? I hope it is not from the rear.


I don't obfuscate.

The source is your PDF and the Pakistani replies to the discussion. Where they effectively rejoice that 500k jobs will go to Chinese and Pakistanis won't be hired. Because, in their own words, they say your citizens are not up to par to do the job. Not majority of you, not a minority of you not even one of you. The funniest part is they realize that you are paying China to give the jobs to Chinese workers.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/500-000-chinese-professionals-expected-in-gwadar-by-2023.524750/

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## Jackdaws

It's between China and Pakistan - if Pakistani leaders want to give all these incentives to China and burden their future generations with loans - that is their call. India's only concern should be Chinese military presence in the region. Even if the Chinese are building infrastructure on land claimed by India, and Pakistan is paying for it - let them do it. With nukes at their disposal, neither India nor Pakistan is going to declare war against the other. If India's plan is to bankrupt Pakistan, then the Pakistani leaders have just added fuel to the fire. 
If CPEC succeeds - then Pakistan does well economically and the idiots there who turn to radicalism might get real jobs and things will improve. 
Either way, it works for India.

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## Unite & Defend

Kaptaan said:


> Yehhhh. When the 500,000 Chinese have moved to Gwadar in swanky new city by 2023 I will visit Gwadar and buy a apartment there. Then go enjoy some real Chinese food. Can't wait. I am hoping Cathay Pacific or Chinese Airlines do flights from UK to Gwadar. And I suspect 1,000s of other Brittish-Pakistanis will folow suit.
> 
> Great times ahead ...


Fantastic idea.

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## SBUS-CXK

takeitwithyou said:


> I don't obfuscate.
> 
> The source is your PDF and the Pakistani replies to the discussion. Where they effectively rejoice that 500k jobs will go to Chinese and Pakistanis won't be hired. Because, in their own words, they say your citizens are not up to par to do the job. Not majority of you, not a minority of you not even one of you. The funniest part is they realize that you are paying China to give the jobs to Chinese workers.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/500-000-chinese-professionals-expected-in-gwadar-by-2023.524750/


Chinese workers also work in Boston.

*Boston to be first US city to import Chinese subway system*

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## Indus Pakistan

Patriot & Ready said:


> Fantastic idea.


Then go on the beach and take cruise along the hammer head with David Bowie wailing away .. oh yehhh !


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## Solomon2

Jackdaws said:


> ..If CPEC succeeds - then Pakistan does well economically -


There's no guarantee even if CPEC succeeds that Pakistan will do well economically as a result. Consider the Suez Canal project. The Europeans financed it but eventually Egypt's ruler couldn't pay interest on his loans so the Brits seized his Canal shares as compensation and pretty soon the Brits were running the entire country as well as the Suez Canal while most Egyptians stayed as poor as they were before. Development? Just a few coaling stations at a handful of Egypt's seaports which Egyptians lacked in technology to use themselves.

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## Laozi

BHarwana said:


> Yes Pakistan has to repay the loan but on the other hand *Pakistan will also get money from the lease *plus a 9% earning from China.



Any idea how much lease money China agreed to pay ? Or this is a secret to the people of Pakistan ?



BHarwana said:


> repaying back is easy once CPEC is active cause the Tax collection will be much higher the worlds second largest importer will ship oil and gas from Pakistan



This may come true if China finds this land route more economical over sea route that she is presently using



BHarwana said:


> Chinese will be buying oil from Pakistani fuel stations and that fuel is heavily taxed in Pakistan.



 INCREASE taxes on your own people to earn something from Chinese



BHarwana said:


> CPEC will decrease unemployment rate by 15% not because the jobs it will create but because of the new business that will sprung to accommodate it.



I think you missed the OP. Chinese goods will become cheaper and could/would kill the local industries. moreover China will be sending its own workforce.



BHarwana said:


> There will be factories and business that will support the project plus the tourism will flourish.



Small businesses may flourish but boosting tourism will require more than CPEC



BHarwana said:


> Already the land value in Gawadar has increased by 1000% and is bringing in a lot of foreign exchange.



Why Foreign exchange which is coming to Pakistan is not increasing her Foreign reserves


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## Jackdaws

Solomon2 said:


> There's no guarantee even if CPEC succeeds that Pakistan will do well economically as a result. Consider the Suez Canal project. The Europeans financed it but eventually Egypt's ruler couldn't pay interest on his loans so the Brits seized his Canal shares as compensation and pretty soon the Brits were running the entire country as well as the Suez Canal while most Egyptians stayed as poor as they were before. Development? Just a few coaling stations at a handful of Egypt's seaports which Egyptians lacked in technology to use themselves.


Yes, I considered that - and if I remember correctly, Naseer nationalized the Suez Canal. So what if Pakistan doesn't repay and nationalizes its own assets which are at that point owned by China? Even Castro did it to American assets. Pakistan will then have a new headache in having a foe in China. What does India have to lose?



Two said:


> Chinese workers also work in Boston.
> 
> *Boston to be first US city to import Chinese subway system*


Seriously? That's your analogy? Comparing labor in Boston and in Pakistan?


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## Indus Pakistan

Jackdaws said:


> Pakistan will then have a new headache in having a foe in China.


So any chance Modi can *confer* Vir Chakra on Xi Jinping? He might deliver Pakistan on a plate to you that the Indian Army has *failed* in 70 years?

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## Laozi

Kaptaan said:


> Yehhhh. When the 500,000 Chinese have moved to Gwadar in swanky new city by 2023 I will visit Gwadar and buy a apartment there. Then go enjoy some real Chinese food. Can't wait. I am hoping Cathay Pacific or Chinese Airlines do flights from UK to Gwadar. And I suspect 1,000s of other Brittish-Pakistanis will folow suit.
> 
> Great times ahead ...


Do you think with 500000 Chinese moving around, you can have the Islamic feel of being in your country ? 

Why not go to Hong Kong and have a great time right now ?


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## AZ1

Laozi said:


> Do you think with 500000 Chinese moving around, you can have the Islamic feel of being in your country ?
> 
> Why not go to Hong Kong and have a great time right now ?


 Ask your Indian Muslims.

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## Sugarcane

If we stop to throw stone on every barking dog then we will not reach destination, keep moving forward steadily.

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## Indus Pakistan

Laozi said:


> Do you think with 500000 Chinese moving around, you can have the Islamic feel of being in


Hard work, honesty, being productive, helping the poor, helping the sick is my Islam. And Chinese are number one on these aspects. So yes to China no to open pooping champions.

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## 4GTejasBVR

Two said:


> No, We need to do business with the Indians!
> 
> In a word, Pakistan is the best brother, India is the best customer.
> 
> *Chinese firm exports transistor chips for Indian locomotives*
> 
> *Exports eight-inch chips to India*
> 
> CRRC Dalian obtains metro vehicle export order from Nagpur, India
> 
> *China’s CRRC to provide 14 subway trains with 112 carriages to India*
> 
> *China’s high-speed train maker to get USD 30 billion for export push*
> 
> *China set to export trains for Mumbai Metro Rail project*
> 
> *China's leading train manufacturer starts operation in India*
> 
> *Kolkata Metro Unveils Design of CNR Dalian Trains*
> 
> *Chinese Corporation CRRC to supply coaches to Nagpur Metro*
> 
> *Chinese firm gets Rs 604 contract for Mumbai metro rail proj*
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_1_(Mumbai_Metro)
> 
> Oh, btw, Delhi metro escalator also comes from the Chinese company - Canny.
> 
> http://www.canny-elevator.com/en/new_info.aspx?newsid=956&NewsCateId=168


Differences are that you don't own anything inside these metros. Literally nothing. Not 1 paisa benifits chinese own. And India also exporting metros to Australia and many other things to China and rest of the world.

Dude i never thought CPEC will be disastrous. I knew its fishy in many ways. But duuuuuude u guys need some serious counciling on nationalism and mathematical calculations lessons



Kaptaan said:


> Hard work, honesty, being productive, helping the poor, helping the sick is my Islam. And Chinese are number one on these aspects. So yes to China no to open pooping champions.


Hope life was so easy to all citizens living inside Pakistan. Like u nri guys



Kaptaan said:


> So any chance Modi can *confer* Vir Chakra on Xi Jinping? He might deliver Pakistan on a plate to you that the Indian Army has *failed* in 70 years?



Chinese ways of living is so stupid and so silly. They think they are superior. But the fact is very people are superior race in the world. Even poor Pakistanis won't be a puppet of chinese. May be for white man. Due to our pre independent history. But lol chinese?

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## Path-Finder

no matter how many ways it can be said its *none* of india and its filthy citizens business.

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## Syed1.

Laozi said:


> Do you think with 500000 Chinese moving around, you can have the Islamic feel of being in your country ?
> 
> Why not go to Hong Kong and have a great time right now ?


Islamic feel


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## Indus Pakistan

4GTejasBVR said:


> Hope life was so easy to all citizens living inside Pakistan


It is my considered opinon the worse *slavemaster* is poverty - it is the *master* of hunger, disease, suffering, inequity, the daily varied sufferings that it inflicts on our souls. Go check out the condition of your Dalits or slums. Ask them what sovereignty means. Ask the Pakistan migrant taking gulps of salty Mediteranean Sea as it swallows him what national pride means. A thousand miles from his mother who bore him. A screaming quite death.

It is because our lives are easy that we know what really matters. And it woulf be nice to see it visit millions of my less fortunate people.

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## HannibalBarca

Kaptaan said:


> It is my considered opinon the worse *slavemaster* is poverty - it is the *master* of hunger, disease, suffering, inequity, the daily varied sufferings that it inflicts on our souls. Go check out the condition of you dalits or slums. Ask them what sovereignty means. Ask the Pakistan migrant taking gulps of salty Mediteranean Sea as it swallows him what national pride means. A thousand miles from his mother who bore him.
> 
> It is because our lives are easy that we know what really matters. And it woulf be nice to see it visit millions of my less fortunate people.


for me it's Ignorance...
Since the prism of poverty around the world is not equal neither his scale in some modern society ( even before tbh)
But here a Q I wanted to ask... Can you give me the top 3 sins of Ibliss? it's just a Q that i want to put in percepective with mine.

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## Indus Pakistan

HannibalBarca said:


> for me it's Ignorance...


Living on the doorway of Europe you guy's don't quite know what real poverty means.

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## HannibalBarca

Kaptaan said:


> Living on the doorway of Europe you guy's don't quite know what real poverty means.


you right, I don't. and I thanks God for that.

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## Indus Pakistan

HannibalBarca said:


> top 3 sins of Ibliss?


My top three - in no particular order.

Ignorance
Ignorance
Ignorance


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## HannibalBarca

Kaptaan said:


> My top three - in no particular order.
> 
> Ignorance
> Ignorance
> Ignorance





Well here mine... since it will be impolite to not share an answer I seek from others.

The first is Arrogance
then Come Jealousy
and Last hypocrisy

As for Ignorance... Maybe he ignored the true meaning of Allah decisions... Maybe. Too Arrogant to accept the truth... too jealous to share..; while doing the same right now...
you right.. Ignorance

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## Canuck786

Two flags always pop out (USA and INDIA) here at pdf reminding us how bad Chinese are being to Pakistan by way of CPEC's implementation. Thanks to think tanks from both these countries. We know you have always been very concerned about our prosperity and well being. Please accept our deepest gratitude in this regards.

AND NOW LEAVE US ALONE WITH THESE SUFFERINGS AS WE DON"T NEED YOUR SYMPATHY!

PLEASE

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## Thanatos

Its pleasure to watch small Indian minds trying to convince CPEC bad for Pakistan. I think this propaganda will continue. Have been following such post for years now, such posts are waste of time.

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## Jackdaws

Kaptaan said:


> So any chance Modi can *confer* Vir Chakra on Xi Jinping? He might deliver Pakistan on a plate to you that the Indian Army has *failed* in 70 years?


I don't want Pakistan delivered on a plate. I want Pakistan to prosper. Simply because I am pro-Indian, doesn't make me anti-Pakistan. I am not fond of either Governments - not in India, not in Pakistan. And certainly not in China. Earlier today I read that some Indian baby who was alive was declared dead and handed over to parents in a plastic bag. Also read that India is buying or making 6 nuke submarines. Stretched resources which should be applied to healthcare and education are being used to acquire weaponry. Of course my blood boils when I see 26/11. But it also boils when I see kids in a school massacred in Pakistan. If your CPEC brings sanity to the region - with its success or its failure - I would be glad.

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## Indus Pakistan

HannibalBarca said:


> Well here mine... since it will be impolite to not share an answer I seek from others.
> 
> The first is Arrogance
> then Come Jealousy
> and Last hypocrisy
> 
> As for Ignorance... Maybe he ignored the true meaning of Allah decisions... Maybe. Too Arrogant to accept the truth... too jealous to share..; while doing the same right now...
> you right.. Ignorance


This is what I want Pakistan to look like. I am sure you can recognise the city Mr Hannibal. And if Chinese can help so be it.

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## war&peace

takeitwithyou said:


> I don't obfuscate.
> 
> The source is your PDF and the Pakistani replies to the discussion. Where they effectively rejoice that 500k jobs will go to Chinese and Pakistanis won't be hired. Because, in their own words, they say your citizens are not up to par to do the job. Not majority of you, not a minority of you not even one of you. The funniest part is they realize that you are paying China to give the jobs to Chinese workers.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/500-000-chinese-professionals-expected-in-gwadar-by-2023.524750/


First of all you have fabricated and added the lie...no where did it say that there will be no jobs for Pakistanis. 500k Chinese professionals means at 5 times more Pakistani professional and workers will get the jobs. Secondly, that's none of your business so get the fcuk out of here. We know how "concerned" you are for Pakistan. Though I'm sure your flags are not true.

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## khanmubashir

Laozi said:


> *CPEC Turns into a Chinese Albatross on Pakistan’s neck – Asia Sentinel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov. 24, a federal minister told Pakistan’s Senate that 91 percent of revenues to be generated from the US$62 billion Gwadar port and the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor that would transport the port’s imports would go to China.
> 
> Pakistan faces repaying US$16 billion in loans obtained from Chinese banks for its development, the free-trade zone surrounding it, and all communications infrastructure, at annual rates of more than 13 percent, inclusive of 7 percent insurance charges. The Pakistan government obviously has no answers on how it will repay the loan over the next 40 years out of the 9 percent of revenues the government will retain. China expects to recoup its own cost of development of the CPEC from the first four years of earnings.
> 
> Understandably gun-shy over the one-sidedness of China’s generosity, on Nov. 15 the Pakistani government turned down an offer of assistance by Beijing for construction of the US$14 billion Diamer-Bhasha Dam in Azad Kashmir and said it would remove the project from the CPEC. The cost of the dam project has zoomed from US$5 billion to US$14 billion, with international lenders linking serious conditions with the provision of funding.
> 
> Pakistan thus is just one of several nations, including Sri Lanka, to have discovered the exorbitant conditions China is attaching to its massive One Belt, One Road bid to
> 
> “The real issue will come when some of those countries, particularly in central Asia, have to pay back some of the loans that were acquired in the Belt and Road Initiative,” Steve Tsang of London’s School of Oriental and African Studies told the Voice of America radio network. “And most of those countries will have problems paying back those loans.”
> 
> Given past practice, Pakistan will either look to the West and particularly the International Monetary Fund for loans to re-pay Chinese loans – or it will rely on Beijing for soft loans to repay the CPEC loans, thus getting caught in a vicious cycle.
> 
> In addition, what is likely to cause a lot more damage to Pakistan’s potential earning is the tax concessions and tax holidays over 20 to 40 years that Pakistan has granted to contractors and sub-contractors associated with the Chinese state-run China Overseas Port Holding Company for imports of equipment, material, plant, appliances and accessories for port and special economic zone.
> 
> According to reports, the 923-hectare free zone, which is to include factories, logistics hubs, warehousing facilities and display centers, will all be exempt both from customs duties and from provincial and federal taxes.
> 
> On the contrary, no comparable tax breaks and incentives have been provided to Pakistan’s local companies. This is likely to naturally reduce the demand for made-in-Pakistan goods because these goods, compared to Chinese goods, will be much costlier.
> 
> Even outside the free-zones, the Chinese companies’ activity amounts to disguised looting of Pakistan’s natural resources. The reason for this looting, in part, is Pakistan’s own ill-preparedness to protect its interests and revenues.
> 
> For instance, Pakistan doesn’t have a regulatory framework to oversee the export of the country’s natural resources, for example marble, allowing the Chinese companies to bypass Pakistan’s processing industries, which could otherwise be a major contributor to the country’s fast-falling value-added exports.
> 
> According to a report by the State Bank of Pakistan, _Marble and Marble Products_, “China is the biggest importer of marble from Pakistan; however, the marble exported to China also includes semi-processed marble, which is then re-exported from China after value addition, which is hurting Pakistan’s marble industry to a significant extent.”
> 
> It isn’t surprising therefore that Pakistan’s share in bi-lateral trade with China stood at, in 2016, US$41.9 billion as against China’s share of almost US$ 17 billion. Pakistan’s exports to China have actually fallen in value while China’s exports have increased, raising concerns that the 1,300-km Karakoram Highway linking the port to the Chinese border is a one-way street.
> 
> Besides the fact that the Chinese companies are almost operating in Pakistan as if they were operating in China, another startling concern is that these companies are bringing in shiploads of Chinese workers, and thus only rarely form genuine partnerships with Pakistani companies. Consequently, there is little or no transfer of skills or technology, which is one reason why Pakistan cannot prevent the import of marble to China as China has the right technology to process marble while Pakistan doesn’t.
> 
> That Chinese companies are bringing in their own workers is an illustration of the internal logic of CPEC whereby China is not only expanding its industrial reach, establishing new markets but also re-locating its excess labor as well. This, according to Pakistani economist Farrukh Saleem, is how China’s labor problem connects with CPEC and Pakistan: “China produces 60 percent of the global cement output. [But] domestic demand has gone down sharply, and the CPC would have to cut roughly 390 million tonnes of cement capacity. And that would mean unemployed cement workers.” Hence the imperative of re-locating this excess labor to countries like to Pakistan.
> 
> Similarly, China’s metal smelting and rolling industry, which employs 3.63 million workers, has annual production of at 800 million tonnes as against domestic demand of 400 million tonnes, indicating the need for a sharp cut in the industry and relocation of the excess labor.
> 
> As such, by 2023, the city of Gwadar alone is expected to see 500,000 Chinese workers and professionals. Accordingly, the China Pak Investment Corporation (CPIC) announced last month a partnership with Top International Engineering Corporation (TIEC), a Chinese state-owned company, to develop China Pak Hills, the first Chinese built Master Community in Gwadar that will accommodate about 500,000 Chinese by 2023.
> 
> Therefore, with Pakistan all set to take a deep plunge into ‘Chinese communism’ and create many mini-Chinas in Pakistan, hopes of reaping the benefits out of the ambitious project have largely been misplaced and a result of misguided and misperceived policy of the Pakistan government.
> 
> But Pakistan has little to no strength in its economy to refuse the Chinese capital. With its foreign exchange reserves standing at US$19 billion and with its external debts standing at US$78 billion, there appears little to no choice for Pakistan other than to jump on the Chinese bandwagon. Still, it all depends upon what Pakistan can extract out of its partnership with the Chinese. So far, however, it is the Chinese who seem perfectly placed to benefit both strategically and economically.
> 
> *Salman Rafi Sheikh*_ (kingsalmanrafi@gmail.com) is a Pakistani academic and long-time contributor to Asia Sentinel_
> 
> https://www.asiasentinel.com/econ-business/cpec-chinese-albatross-pakistan-neck/


Local labor costs would be far less then. Ringing in workers form China I hayvd visited cpec sites except for high skill technical manpower rest r local
As for agreement the way we r dealing with USA today wouldn't have been defined in those mysterious agreement we signed with em back in 2001 
There is alot of propaganda also from both sides with vested interests
The truth is somewhere in between but here is the ground reality after the trade starts and it's become lucrative if original agreement doesn't suit us we can renegotiate terms otherwise if we can make it unworkable for USA forces in Afghanistan it won't be that tough to make it so for Chinese businesses in our own territories and Chinese r smart enough to know that


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## HannibalBarca

Kaptaan said:


> This is what I want Pakistan to look like. I am sure you can recognise the city Mr Hannibal. And if Chinese can help so be it.


Shall anyone be granted their wish... 
As for the city... let's hope it's not a mirage...


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## BHarwana

Laozi said:


> I think you missed the OP. Chinese goods will become cheaper and could/would kill the local industries. moreover China will be sending its own workforce.


Chinese work force is coming only for CPEC not for working in Pakistani factories and it is coming to work on projects which are already employed by Chinese companies. Pakistani companies are hiring their own work force plus it has created a huge industry for translators in Pakistan. If you know mandarin Urdu and English all three they will abduct you from your house. CPEC is not just opening a trade route but the development is massive there are many housing societies and markets that have started to develop near the port many hotels are buying land there. Just imagine a second Karachi being born in Balochistan with a totally different market.

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## war&peace

Kaptaan said:


> So yes to China no to *open pooping champions*


 thoroughly enjoyed. I think they hold championships 



Kaptaan said:


> This is what I want Pakistan to look like. I am sure you can recognise the city Mr Hannibal. And if Chinese can help so be it.


I think we already have far better looking cities than this. You should have selected a better example.

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## Jackdaws

war&peace said:


> thoroughly enjoyed. I think they hold championships


I guess you are about to find out soon enough that it is a Chinese trait as well. Indians use toilets if they actually have access to one - Chinese have no such qualms. 


https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/gqnzxj/are-chinese-tourists-the-worst-tourists-in-the-world

There was a report of a Chinese making his kid poop in the middle of an aisle in an airplane. 

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/la...-underground-China-Shanghai-Metro-tube-Line-2


And 500,000 of them are gonna be in Gwadar. Go on AliExpress and order the masks.


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## BHarwana

Laozi said:


> Why Foreign exchange which is coming to Pakistan is not increasing her Foreign reserves


Because in Pakistan people don't keep dollars in banks but money inflow has increased every since the land trade started in the area. Pakistan was importing 100 MW electricity from Iran for Gwadar now the demand has doubled so you can assess sometime back it was just an empty piece of land and now it is utilizing 400 plus MW electricity. thet 400 MW electricity is giving Pakistan tax already. every thing is going to pay in this deal China has cheap route and Pakistan get a New city. Pakistan will also tax the economic zones being developed by China and that is 15% first it was only Gwadar now they are developing economic zones all around country. The investment that is coming in from Chinese private sector will dwarf the investment of Gwadar.

On local industry what ever is coming into Pakistan from China is not being made in Pakistan and labor in Pakistan is cheaper than China the only thing which was hurting Pakistan was energy with CPEC most investment is being done in energy sector and this will solve a major problem plus Pakistan is developing many coal power projects.

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## Sheikh Rauf

Someone is jelouse  I don't doubt China' s intentions if China wanna grab any land it will not be gawadar disputed teritory is between india and China that' would be the first to grab if China ever want plus China never capture any land in long history if we look at. So yeah let the world cry cuz the plan they been doing to counter China is not working cuz of CPEC. It's valuable for Pakistan and China for long term.. 
Reason why see blasts and Tehreek Taliban Afg is doing cuz india and world is frustrated they can' help it but o
to cry out loud..

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## Indus Pakistan

war&peace said:


> I think we already have far better looking cities than this. You should have selected a better example.


I wish but we don't. What we have is cherrypicked areas but surrounded by vast ocean of inequity and chaos. Tunisia on the other hand is far, far, far, far more developed country than Pakistan will be for another 30 years. I know when to brag anbd I also know when to accept reality. They have a per capita over *2.5 times* more than Pakistan. They spend vastly more on education, housing, hospitals than we do. And it shows. Their literacy rate is 81%.

https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/tunisia/pakistan

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## HannibalBarca

Kaptaan said:


> I wish but we don't. What we have is cherrypicked areas but surrounded by vast ocean of inequity and chaos. Tunisia on the other hand is far, far, far, far more developed country than Pakistan will be for another 30 years. I know when to brag anbd I also know when to accept reality. They have a per capita over *2.5 times* more than Pakistan. They spend vastly more on education, housing, hospitals than we do. And it shows. Their literacy rate is 81%.
> 
> https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/tunisia/pakistan


it took us 50+ years to make... with 24 years of ignorance... And yet we have a long long way ahead... to get back those 2 decades of darkness...
Or should I say 2500 years...

-------------

One thing , I want to say to ppl...who judge a country by his infrastructure... remember it's smthing you can pay to be made... and money is not a sign of devlopment... it's only a mean for it... and we have quite a lot of exemples around us...

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Laozi said:


> *CPEC Turns into a Chinese Albatross on Pakistan’s neck – Asia Sentinel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov. 24, a federal minister told Pakistan’s Senate that 91 percent of revenues to be generated from the US$62 billion Gwadar port and the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor that would transport the port’s imports would go to China.
> 
> Pakistan faces repaying US$16 billion in loans obtained from Chinese banks for its development, the free-trade zone surrounding it, and all communications infrastructure, at annual rates of more than 13 percent, inclusive of 7 percent insurance charges. The Pakistan government obviously has no answers on how it will repay the loan over the next 40 years out of the 9 percent of revenues the government will retain. China expects to recoup its own cost of development of the CPEC from the first four years of earnings.
> 
> Understandably gun-shy over the one-sidedness of China’s generosity, on Nov. 15 the Pakistani government turned down an offer of assistance by Beijing for construction of the US$14 billion Diamer-Bhasha Dam in Azad Kashmir and said it would remove the project from the CPEC. The cost of the dam project has zoomed from US$5 billion to US$14 billion, with international lenders linking serious conditions with the provision of funding.
> 
> Pakistan thus is just one of several nations, including Sri Lanka, to have discovered the exorbitant conditions China is attaching to its massive One Belt, One Road bid to
> 
> “The real issue will come when some of those countries, particularly in central Asia, have to pay back some of the loans that were acquired in the Belt and Road Initiative,” Steve Tsang of London’s School of Oriental and African Studies told the Voice of America radio network. “And most of those countries will have problems paying back those loans.”
> 
> Given past practice, Pakistan will either look to the West and particularly the International Monetary Fund for loans to re-pay Chinese loans – or it will rely on Beijing for soft loans to repay the CPEC loans, thus getting caught in a vicious cycle.
> 
> In addition, what is likely to cause a lot more damage to Pakistan’s potential earning is the tax concessions and tax holidays over 20 to 40 years that Pakistan has granted to contractors and sub-contractors associated with the Chinese state-run China Overseas Port Holding Company for imports of equipment, material, plant, appliances and accessories for port and special economic zone.
> 
> According to reports, the 923-hectare free zone, which is to include factories, logistics hubs, warehousing facilities and display centers, will all be exempt both from customs duties and from provincial and federal taxes.
> 
> On the contrary, no comparable tax breaks and incentives have been provided to Pakistan’s local companies. This is likely to naturally reduce the demand for made-in-Pakistan goods because these goods, compared to Chinese goods, will be much costlier.
> 
> Even outside the free-zones, the Chinese companies’ activity amounts to disguised looting of Pakistan’s natural resources. The reason for this looting, in part, is Pakistan’s own ill-preparedness to protect its interests and revenues.
> 
> For instance, Pakistan doesn’t have a regulatory framework to oversee the export of the country’s natural resources, for example marble, allowing the Chinese companies to bypass Pakistan’s processing industries, which could otherwise be a major contributor to the country’s fast-falling value-added exports.
> 
> According to a report by the State Bank of Pakistan, _Marble and Marble Products_, “China is the biggest importer of marble from Pakistan; however, the marble exported to China also includes semi-processed marble, which is then re-exported from China after value addition, which is hurting Pakistan’s marble industry to a significant extent.”
> 
> It isn’t surprising therefore that Pakistan’s share in bi-lateral trade with China stood at, in 2016, US$41.9 billion as against China’s share of almost US$ 17 billion. Pakistan’s exports to China have actually fallen in value while China’s exports have increased, raising concerns that the 1,300-km Karakoram Highway linking the port to the Chinese border is a one-way street.
> 
> Besides the fact that the Chinese companies are almost operating in Pakistan as if they were operating in China, another startling concern is that these companies are bringing in shiploads of Chinese workers, and thus only rarely form genuine partnerships with Pakistani companies. Consequently, there is little or no transfer of skills or technology, which is one reason why Pakistan cannot prevent the import of marble to China as China has the right technology to process marble while Pakistan doesn’t.
> 
> That Chinese companies are bringing in their own workers is an illustration of the internal logic of CPEC whereby China is not only expanding its industrial reach, establishing new markets but also re-locating its excess labor as well. This, according to Pakistani economist Farrukh Saleem, is how China’s labor problem connects with CPEC and Pakistan: “China produces 60 percent of the global cement output. [But] domestic demand has gone down sharply, and the CPC would have to cut roughly 390 million tonnes of cement capacity. And that would mean unemployed cement workers.” Hence the imperative of re-locating this excess labor to countries like to Pakistan.
> 
> Similarly, China’s metal smelting and rolling industry, which employs 3.63 million workers, has annual production of at 800 million tonnes as against domestic demand of 400 million tonnes, indicating the need for a sharp cut in the industry and relocation of the excess labor.
> 
> As such, by 2023, the city of Gwadar alone is expected to see 500,000 Chinese workers and professionals. Accordingly, the China Pak Investment Corporation (CPIC) announced last month a partnership with Top International Engineering Corporation (TIEC), a Chinese state-owned company, to develop China Pak Hills, the first Chinese built Master Community in Gwadar that will accommodate about 500,000 Chinese by 2023.
> 
> Therefore, with Pakistan all set to take a deep plunge into ‘Chinese communism’ and create many mini-Chinas in Pakistan, hopes of reaping the benefits out of the ambitious project have largely been misplaced and a result of misguided and misperceived policy of the Pakistan government.
> 
> But Pakistan has little to no strength in its economy to refuse the Chinese capital. With its foreign exchange reserves standing at US$19 billion and with its external debts standing at US$78 billion, there appears little to no choice for Pakistan other than to jump on the Chinese bandwagon. Still, it all depends upon what Pakistan can extract out of its partnership with the Chinese. So far, however, it is the Chinese who seem perfectly placed to benefit both strategically and economically.
> 
> *Salman Rafi Sheikh*_ (kingsalmanrafi@gmail.com) is a Pakistani academic and long-time contributor to Asia Sentinel_
> 
> https://www.asiasentinel.com/econ-business/cpec-chinese-albatross-pakistan-neck/







The above is a false narrative. The author forgot to mention the clause that the Chinese share of 91% would be reinvested in Pakistan and CPEC without the fear of it being usurped by corrupt Pakistani politicians/officials. Also, that Pakistan would get a nationwide, world class infrastructure and an eventual high standard of living for ordinary Pakistanis, virtually for free. 

These are the same people who vehemently proclaimed in May 1998 that Pakistan would cease to exist because of economic sanctions imposed on us after our nuke teats. We all know how that ended up. Just as then, so is now...............

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## somebozo

Laozi said:


> On Nov. 24, a federal minister told Pakistan’s Senate that 91 percent of revenues to be generated from the US$62 billion EUR 53 billion
> Exchange Rate: EUR 1 = US$ 1.16 Gwadar port and the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor that would transport the port’s imports would go to China.



The 91/9% sharing is only during the concession period, at the end of which all assests will be transferred to Gawadar Port Authority.
_
Chinese company to share gross income with #Gwadar Port Authority
Planning Commission on Tuesday explained that China Overseas Ports Holding Company (COPHL) will be sharing gross income with Gwadar Port Authority (GPA).
Asim Khan, Spokesman of Ministry of Planning said in a statement that the Gwadar Port concession agreement was signed ten years back in 2007 with former port operating company, namely, Port of Singapore Authority International (PSAI). He said that the port and its Free Zone could not be developed by PSAI as per the Agreement on Built-Operater-Transfer (BOT) basis till 2013.
He maintained that the present Port Operator, namely, China Oversees Ports Holding (COPHC) took over the operations of the Port after commercial negotiation with the concerned authorities in 2013 without any single amendment in the agreement. Therefore, the terms and conditions were defined long before the CPEC exist. Under the agreement the port operator has to construct new port terminals with equipment, machinery, marine vessels, allied facilities on a vast area of the port.
Furthermore, the company is developing Gwadar Free Zone at an area of about 2,300 acres of land, he stated. The entire project is to be completed on BOT basis with company funding. The company will be spending around $5 billion during the Concession period up to 2048.
Asim Khan mentioned that after completion of the Concession period the entire fixed asset constructed and developed will be transferred to GPA with billions of dollars businesses operating in Gwadar Port and Gwadar Free Zone. During the Concession period GPA is getting 9% of the gross revenue from port and marine service businesses and 15% of the Free Zone businesses, he maintained.
Despite shortage of water, electricity and road connection to the port, COPHC, together with GPA, is operating the Port with losses, said the spokesman Ministry of Planning, Development & Reform.
Asim Khan expressed that despite these difficulties COPHC had been active to use its resources for the local community by giving employment opportunities, handling health problems, education and environmental protection programmes in Gwadar. He applauded the efforts of Pakistani government and said that with the strong guidance and leadership of Pakistani government and support of local communities, Gwadar Port is enjoying unprecedented quick development. It is the vision of COPHC and GPA that all the concerned authorities and stake holders may join us to ascertain the making of Gwadar Port as an economic hub of Pakistan and South Asia region.
He maintained that the Gwadar Port is the flagship project of CPEC torch-bearer of urban and industrial development of Gwadar district. Economic development of Gwadar as well as the southern regions of Balochistan province largely depend on smooth progress of work in Gwadar Port area.
The benefits to the district and the province would be much more than the expected revenues from the port. Therefore, all such generalisations and uninformed views expressed in the media about the Port Concession Agreement are refuted._



Kaptaan said:


> I wish but we don't. What we have is cherrypicked areas but surrounded by vast ocean of inequity and chaos. Tunisia on the other hand is far, far, far, far more developed country than Pakistan will be for another 30 years. I know when to brag anbd I also know when to accept reality. They have a per capita over *2.5 times* more than Pakistan. They spend vastly more on education, housing, hospitals than we do. And it shows. Their literacy rate is 81%.
> 
> https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/tunisia/pakistan



And also they do not reproduce rabidly like Pakistanis do..doubling the population every next generation.


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## Kabira

I know one thing, 5 years from now Gwadar face will be changed for ever. Pakistan could never afford to do that in short term. Pak can't even afford something as important as dams to store water so imagine building whole new city.



somebozo said:


> Despite shortage of water, electricity and road connection to the port, COPHC, together with GPA, is operating the Port with losses, said the spokesman Ministry of Planning, Development & Reform.
> Asim Khan expressed that despite these difficulties COPHC had been active to use its resources for the local community by giving employment opportunities, handling health problems, education and environmental protection programmes in Gwadar.



As expected they are in loss and this will continue to be the case for long time. Pakistan isn't missing out on profits and neither sharing losses while Gwadar port is being developed.

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## Sharpshooter12

Laozi said:


> On Nov. 24, a federal minister told Pakistan’s Senate that 91 percent of revenues to be generated from the *US$62 billion Gwadar port and the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor that would transport the port’s imports would go to China*.


BS. 91 percent of the revenue for 40 years is the figure for the Gwadar port only and not for every single project under CPEC. 



Laozi said:


> In addition, what is likely to cause a lot more damage to Pakistan’s potential earning is the tax concessions and tax holidays over 20 to 40 years that Pakistan has granted to contractors and sub-contractors associated with the Chinese state-run China Overseas Port Holding Company for imports of equipment, material, plant, appliances and accessories for port and special economic zone.
> 
> According to reports, the 923-hectare free zone, which is to include factories, logistics hubs, warehousing facilities and display centers, will all be exempt both from customs duties and from provincial and federal taxes.


This is my biggest concern about these projects. If we are not going to get any taxes out of these economic zones and if the Chinese are going to follow their present policy of using Chinese labor then what are we actually gaining out of this. They will be using our land and our infrastructure, we will be responsible for their security so that will cost us a lot, and they won't be paying taxes and will not be creating any jobs for the locals so what is the point of allowing such economic zones. 

While I do understand that we need to improve the quality of our human resource, but it is not like you can't find 5 hundred thousand skilled Pakistanis to complete these projects. After all we are providing millions of skilled labor to Gulf and South East Asia e.g S.K etc. 



Laozi said:


> But Pakistan has little to no strength in its economy to refuse the Chinese capital. With its foreign exchange reserves standing at *US$19 billion* and with its external debts standing at *US$78 billion*, there appears little to no choice for Pakistan other than to jump on the Chinese bandwagon. Still, it all depends upon what Pakistan can extract out of its partnership with the Chinese. So far, however, it is the Chinese who seem perfectly placed to benefit both strategically and economically.


Well now the Forex reserves have dropped down to $13 Billion and external debts have ballooned to $87 Billion so yeah this is truly a crisis. 

I am not against CPEC, if it was executed with long-term planning on our part it could have improved our economy dramatically. For example if the government would have launched youth skill improvement programs inline with the requirements of the projects that will be launched in CPEC, before hand, and made it mandatory for the Chinese firms working on these projects to employ Pakistanis, it would have improved our employment issue. 

Perhaps I am naive and somebody can enlighten me about the actual benefits of CPEC, but the way I see it, we are not getting taxes, we are not getting new jobs, we will be paying billions of dollars for the improvement of infrastructure that will be used by these Chinese economic zones, that will in turn reduce the cost of the products they create and increase their profitability. Any local industry trying to compete with these Chinese firms will be blown away, as they will be paying taxes which will actually increase now as we have to pay back these loans hence increasing the cost of their products, this will be disastrous for an already ailing industrial sector. 

If not handled with care, this will not only adversely affect our economy but also create resentment against Chinese among the Pakistani public and hence affect our relationship with our only ally.


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

BHarwana said:


> lol. USA got free air base in Pakistan until they attacked a post on Pak afghan border at least China is Paying. Now question about China in Pakistan is that the local Pakistanis think China as of brothers and not foreigners. Pakistanis have no problem with China. Now China is paying for the port but if China would have asked a free access to the port trust me Pakistan would have given that. Pakistanis love Chinese and they love Pakistan. Pak-China friendship is not based on mutual issues but rather it is on a cultural and traditional relation that dates back to the times of original silk road route. China has helped Pakistan on many occasions at it's personal cost. Now lets make it simple this is a military alliance and friendship of cultures. Tomorrow if for any reason China and USA go to war Pakistan will always stand with China, if the Gov will go against the Pakistanis will over through the Gov now I made this statement to provide the actual sentiments of Pakistani people towards China and similarly the same case goes for Turkey. It is that Pakistanis mentally accept Chinese as partners. Many Pakistanis will be divided on USA or any other nation but on Chinese Pakistanis have good views and stand united to be a friend. It is a blessing China is paying for the Port Pakistan would have given it for free.
> 
> My suggestion to the world is cry a river build a bridge and get over it. Pakistan China relation is not gonna break.





Kaptaan said:


> Yehhhh. When the 500,000 Chinese have moved to Gwadar in swanky new city by 2023 I will visit Gwadar and buy a apartment there. Then go enjoy some real Chinese food. Can't wait. I am hoping Cathay Pacific or Chinese Airlines do flights from UK to Gwadar. And I suspect 1,000s of other Brittish-Pakistanis will folow suit.
> 
> Great times ahead ...


It's like asking Beni Istail to stay back with Pharaoh and not to join Moses (PBUH) at the pass-over!!! Pak's mortal enemies are getting maniacs!!!!

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## EndangeredSpecies

Two said:


> In a word, Pakistan is the best brother, India is the best customer.


So, you mean Chinese Big Brother will mooch Pakistan's goodies and sell them cheap to India. Thats wonderful. BTW, your best customer is USA.


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## Indus Pakistan

The decisive factor in CPEC is not going to be interest rates, the industries. business practices, roads, repayments but something more in the arena of *politics*. Down the road I can guarantee that we will see a Chinese *versus* Mullah standoff. As more and more Chinese move into Pakistan CPEC will begin to take off. This will lead to more Chinese moving to Pakistan. The more Chinese will be measure of success.

However this will start a ticking bomb. At some stage, somewhere some Chinese are inadvertantly going end up falling *foul* of some Mullah who will then launch a demonstration like they did in Faizabad recently. This will place the Chinese against the Mullahs. The former will not give in a *inch*. Then the federal government will get involved because of Chinese pressure. The Chinese will expect a robust action. How this then plays out will decide the fate of CPEC. If the Chinese lose out they will gradually lose interest in long term plan and then just focus on the short term to recuperate their investment. Long Term investment will fizzle out. By way of example we may use the Lal Masjid incident of 2007 as a pointer to the future. Quote -


_Students at the Red Mosque's two affiliated seminaries launched a campaign for Shari'a, occupying a nearby children's library and embarking on vigilante raids through the capital to stop what they called "un-Islamic activities," such as DVD vendors, barber shops and a *Chinese-run massage* parlor that they accused of being a brothel.[21]

On 27 March 2007, female students from Jamia Hafsa kidnapped three women, who they accused of running a brothel, and seized two policemen.[23] All of the women were released after supposedly confessing to running the brothel and were shown on the television wearing burqas. Also due in part to an intercession from the *Chinese Ambassador, Luo Zhaohui*.[24]

_
_



_​_
ISLAMABAD, June 23: The government on Saturday averted a near ‘diplomatic disaster’ between Pakistan and China by securing the release of nine Chinese nationals, six of them women, who were abducted by the Lal Masjid brigade form a massage parlour.
Islamabad remained in the grip of intense diplomatic and security activity, with the Chinese envoy pleading the case of the abducted women and men with highly-embarrassed government functionaries.

https://www.dawn.com/news/253217/chinese-hostages-freed
_
Thus far we can have all the shenanigans within Pakistan but because Pakistan is islolated from the external world - something obvious by the limited foreign airlines operating in Pakistan despite being a country of 200 million people. However with CPEC Pakistan will open up to lots of Chinese. In this scenario it is only matter of when not if that the Chinese end up tripping on the Mullah trap. As we know it does not take much for that to happen. The Lal Masjid incident is a reminder of that.

With huge deluge of Chinese the chance of another similiar standoff taking place will be on the cards. Exactly how this then plays out will decide the fate of CPEC. Success or it will fizzle out. We will find out in time. The clock is *ticking*.

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## takeitwithyou

war&peace said:


> First of all you have fabricated and added the lie...no where did it say that there will be no jobs for Pakistanis. 500k Chinese professionals means at 5 times more Pakistani professional and workers will get the jobs. Secondly, that's none of your business so get the fcuk out of here. We know how "concerned" you are for Pakistan. Though I'm sure your flags are not true.


First, you asked me to prove Pakistani's on PDF were rejoicing on Chinese giving 500k jobs, in Pakistan, to Chinese workers exclusively. Then you say 500k Chinese jobs= 2.5 mil Pakistani jobs?

poor Sweden with that brain drain it's...


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## Canuck786

Kaptaan said:


> The decisive factor in CPEC is not going to be interest rates, the industries. business practices, roads, repayments but something more in the arena of *politics*. Down the road I can guarantee that we will see a Chinese *versus* Mullah standoff. As more and more Chinese move into Pakistan CPEC will begin to take off. This will lead to more Chinese moving to Pakistan. The more Chinese will be measure of success.
> 
> However this will start a ticking bomb. At some stage, somewhere some Chinese are inadvertantly going end up falling *foul* of some Mullah who will then launch a demonstration like they did in Faizabad recently. This will place the Chinese against the Mullahs. The former will not give in a *inch*. Then the federal government will get involved because of Chinese pressure. The Chinese will expect a robust action. How this then plays out will decide the fate of CPEC. If the Chinese lose out they will gradually lose interest in long term plan and then just focus on the short term to recuperate their investment. Long Term investment will fizzle out. By way of example we may use the Lal Masjid incident of 2007 as a pointer to the future. Quote -
> 
> 
> _Students at the Red Mosque's two affiliated seminaries launched a campaign for Shari'a, occupying a nearby children's library and embarking on vigilante raids through the capital to stop what they called "un-Islamic activities," such as DVD vendors, barber shops and a *Chinese-run massage* parlor that they accused of being a brothel.[21]
> 
> On 27 March 2007, female students from Jamia Hafsa kidnapped three women, who they accused of running a brothel, and seized two policemen.[23] All of the women were released after supposedly confessing to running the brothel and were shown on the television wearing burqas. Also due in part to an intercession from the *Chinese Ambassador, Luo Zhaohui*.[24]
> 
> _
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _​_
> ISLAMABAD, June 23: The government on Saturday averted a near ‘diplomatic disaster’ between Pakistan and China by securing the release of nine Chinese nationals, six of them women, who were abducted by the Lal Masjid brigade form a massage parlour.
> Islamabad remained in the grip of intense diplomatic and security activity, with the Chinese envoy pleading the case of the abducted women and men with highly-embarrassed government functionaries.
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/253217/chinese-hostages-freed
> _
> Thus far we can have all the shenanigans within Pakistan but because Pakistan is islolated from the external world - something obvious by the limited foreign airlines operating in Pakistan despite being a country of 200 million people. However with CPEC Pakistan will open up to lots of Chinese. In this scenario it is only matter of when not if that the Chinese end up tripping on the Mullah trap. As we know it does not take much for that to happen. The Lal Masjid incident is a reminder of that.
> 
> With huge deluge of Chinese the chance of another similiar standoff taking place will be on the cards. Exactly how this then plays out will decide the fate of CPEC. Success or it will fizzle out. We will find out in time. The clock is *ticking*.


 Why can't we declare Gwadar as a liberal city and exempt it from traditional laws with zero tolerance policies by the army against any dharnas and the likes. Army has guaranteed security for CPEC so it would be under that mandate as well. It would be akin to the UAE model where different states have different laws.


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## 武成王

You're gonna see that Chinese businessmen wear local style cloth and visit Mullas with gifts, he may promise to help Mullas and his followers to dig some wells and provide them clean waters, this is a true story happened in Balochistan in the past. Chinese are good at turning a bad thing into a positive thing for both sides, in Chinese culture, danger and opportunity is two sides of the same coin.

The most funny thing you probably find is, some Chinese businessman will learn Qu'ran and talk about Islam with Mullas, and he even can convert to Islam, finally, they become ally of Mullas!

Forget to rely on Chinese to help you resolve the *Mulla Dilemma*.

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## KediKesenFare3

If 500.000 Chinese pour into Gwadar...this is a huge number, really. We have to take into account that some of the Chinese workers will come with family to Pakistan. The actual figure could become much higher.


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## lastofthepatriots

nop said:


> You're gonna see that Chinese businessmen wear local style cloth and visit Mullas with gifts, he may promise to help Mullas and his followers to dig some wells and provide them clean waters, this is a true story happened in Balochistan in the past. Chinese are good at turning a bad thing into a positive thing for both sides, in Chinese culture, danger and opportunity is two sides of the same coin.
> 
> The most funny thing you probably find is, some Chinese businessman will learn Qu'ran and talk about Islam with Mullas, and he even can convert to Islam, finally, they become ally of Mullas!
> 
> Forget to rely on Chinese to help you resolve the *Mulla Dilemma*.



Chinese in Karachi have already done that. They speak our language and wear our clothes.

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## 武成王

KediKesenFare said:


> If 500.000 Chinese pour into Gwadar...this is a huge number, really. We have to take into account that some of the Chinese workers will come with family to Pakistan. The actual figure could become much higher.



Tomorrow some media will say the number could increase to be 1 million. Dubai has 20,0000 Chinese businessmen and professionals, if there're 50,0000 in Gwadar, this indicate Gwadar has a GDP size of 2.5 x Dubai if we take this as a simple calculation. Can this happen in near future?

After construction of Gwadar port, majority of Chinese professionals will return back to China and have a rest, then they will go to next project probably in e.g. Africa or Latin America, they usually are employed by state owned enterprise.

Only those running their private business in Gwadar, or assigned task to maintain the facilities will reside there in rotation mode, they in general won't bring their family together, they're not immigrants, their children will be educated in China, I can't guarantee ALL, however this is common practice especially if we take into count of the current security situation.

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## Cybernetics

lastofthepatriots said:


> Chinese in Karachi have already done that. They speak our language and wear our clothes.


You will find that generally Chinese are very adaptable, as long as people are nice to them they will reciprocate and learn to love the other's culture. When it comes to making friends Chinese usually don't care what culture you are from, as long as you are a good person its enough for them.

I question the integrity of this article. Its hyperbolizing the ground situation.

500,000 Chinese to Gwadar by 2023? Am I reading this right? I suspect whether that is even feasible in 5-6 years. I think its an impossibility to the point of being comical.

They talk about the cement surplus in China like they are going to ship it all the way from Shanghai to Gwadar when Pakistan has plenty. Sub contracting will go to Pakistani firms and it already is. There are many local firms that are in charge of sub-contracting to build CPEC infrastructure. If you look at pictures and videos of CPEC construction it counters what fake news says.
http://www.cpecinfo.com/cpec-news-detail?id=MTU5OQ==

"Shiploads of Chinese", Chinese go to Pakistan in airplanes, its much faster and its not that expensive. They are obviously being racial and referencing to Chinese workers who traveled on ships to build the American & Canadian railroads during the 19th century to evoke fear and a racist reaction against Chinese.

Saying Gwadar and CPEC is going to be a failure is the same as those who said Shenzhen and China's economic reforms are going to be failures. Be prepared to hear Pakistani collapse theories for the rest of your lives now that Pakistan has decided to take a bold action, like what was said of China after economic reforms. There is an big effort to waste your time and mental effort in talking about non issues in attempt to sabotage the project, its quite obvious and unlikely to work

My view is: Focus on how you as an individual can benefit from this effort. If you can benefit from it, it means the efforts of CPEC is not wasted. If the person constantly seeks to bash and provoke without making an effort to benefit from it then there is reason to suspect the intentions and integrity of that person.

I really hope the members here on PDF can personally benefit and find business or work opportunities from the project and related activities.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Kaptaan said:


> The decisive factor in CPEC is not going to be interest rates, the industries. business practices, roads, repayments but something more in the arena of *politics*. Down the road I can guarantee that we will see a Chinese *versus* Mullah standoff. As more and more Chinese move into Pakistan CPEC will begin to take off. This will lead to more Chinese moving to Pakistan. The more Chinese will be measure of success.
> 
> However this will start a ticking bomb. At some stage, somewhere some Chinese are inadvertantly going end up falling *foul* of some Mullah who will then launch a demonstration like they did in Faizabad recently. This will place the Chinese against the Mullahs. The former will not give in a *inch*. Then the federal government will get involved because of Chinese pressure. The Chinese will expect a robust action. How this then plays out will decide the fate of CPEC. If the Chinese lose out they will gradually lose interest in long term plan and then just focus on the short term to recuperate their investment. Long Term investment will fizzle out. By way of example we may use the Lal Masjid incident of 2007 as a pointer to the future. Quote -
> 
> 
> _Students at the Red Mosque's two affiliated seminaries launched a campaign for Shari'a, occupying a nearby children's library and embarking on vigilante raids through the capital to stop what they called "un-Islamic activities," such as DVD vendors, barber shops and a *Chinese-run massage* parlor that they accused of being a brothel.[21]
> 
> On 27 March 2007, female students from Jamia Hafsa kidnapped three women, who they accused of running a brothel, and seized two policemen.[23] All of the women were released after supposedly confessing to running the brothel and were shown on the television wearing burqas. Also due in part to an intercession from the *Chinese Ambassador, Luo Zhaohui*.[24]
> 
> _
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _​_
> ISLAMABAD, June 23: The government on Saturday averted a near ‘diplomatic disaster’ between Pakistan and China by securing the release of nine Chinese nationals, six of them women, who were abducted by the Lal Masjid brigade form a massage parlour.
> Islamabad remained in the grip of intense diplomatic and security activity, with the Chinese envoy pleading the case of the abducted women and men with highly-embarrassed government functionaries.
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/253217/chinese-hostages-freed
> _
> Thus far we can have all the shenanigans within Pakistan but because Pakistan is islolated from the external world - something obvious by the limited foreign airlines operating in Pakistan despite being a country of 200 million people. However with CPEC Pakistan will open up to lots of Chinese. In this scenario it is only matter of when not if that the Chinese end up tripping on the Mullah trap. As we know it does not take much for that to happen. The Lal Masjid incident is a reminder of that.
> 
> With huge deluge of Chinese the chance of another similiar standoff taking place will be on the cards. Exactly how this then plays out will decide the fate of CPEC. Success or it will fizzle out. We will find out in time. The clock is *ticking*.


It is taking even one more point against CPEC away!!! Now all the workers will be from Pak!!!!!

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## KediKesenFare3

nop said:


> Tomorrow some media will say the number could increase to be 1 million. Dubai has 20,0000 Chinese businessmen and professionals, if there're 50,0000 in Gwadar, this indicate Gwadar has a GDP size of 2.5 x Dubai if we take this as a simple calculation. Can this happen in near future?
> 
> After construction of Gwadar port, majority of Chinese professionals will return back to China and have a rest, then they will go to next project probably in e.g. Africa or Latin America, they usually are employed by state owned enterprise.
> 
> Only those running their private business in Gwadar, or assigned task to maintain the facilities will reside there in rotation mode, they in general won't bring their family together, they're not immigrants, their children will be educated in China, I can't guarantee ALL, however this is common practice especially if we take into count of the current security situation.



But Gwadar port is not comparable to other projects of China in foreign countries. It will be a permanent port for predominantly Chinese goods. It will be China's safety output if something happens in the South China Sea region. You are misjudging the importance of this port for China. In addition, the Chinese Communist Party has announced a development plan for Western China. This region will benefit the most from Gwardar.

By any standards, this is more than just a foreign project of China. They will stay, when they come. Believe me. The Chinese government will make them stay even if they want to leave which I doubt in the first place. They will earn a lot of money.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I like it how much Indians write about CPEC

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## war&peace

nop said:


> You're gonna see that Chinese businessmen wear local style cloth and visit Mullas with gifts, he may promise to help Mullas and his followers to dig some wells and provide them clean waters, this is a true story happened in Balochistan in the past. Chinese are good at turning a bad thing into a positive thing for both sides, in Chinese culture, danger and opportunity is two sides of the same coin.
> 
> The most funny thing you probably find is, some Chinese businessman will learn Qu'ran and talk about Islam with Mullas, and he even can convert to Islam, finally, they become ally of Mullas!
> 
> Forget to rely on Chinese to help you resolve the *Mulla Dilemma*.


Totally agreed. Chinese culture influenced by Confucius teachings is very different. This is an educated and peaceful way of dealing with the things while the Western-hypocrites and their westoxified toxic losers always advocate use of power and inhuman ways while preaching others about humanity.



Kaptaan said:


> I wish but we don't. What we have is cherrypicked areas but surrounded by vast ocean of inequity and chaos. Tunisia on the other hand is far, far, far, far more developed country than Pakistan will be for another 30 years. I know when to brag anbd I also know when to accept reality. They have a per capita over *2.5 times* more than Pakistan. They spend vastly more on education, housing, hospitals than we do. And it shows. Their literacy rate is 81%.
> 
> https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/tunisia/pakistan


I have been to Tunisia and stayed three months. GDP per capita is not a true indicator rather how homogeneously it is distributed throughout the society. Do you know where the Arab springs started and what was the reason? so your "far far far more developed" is far far far from the reality.



KediKesenFare said:


> But Gwadar port is not comparable to other projects of China in foreign countries. It will be a permanent port for predominantly Chinese goods. It will be China's safety output if something happens in the South China Sea region. You are misjudging the importance of this port for China. In addition, the Chinese Communist Party has announced a development plan for Western China. This region will benefit the most from Gwardar.
> 
> By any standards, this is more than just a foreign project of China. They will stay, when they come. Believe me. The Chinese government will make them stay even if they want to leave which I doubt in the first place. They will earn a lot of money.


Exactly, they are planning a city for Chinese people with a yearly turnover in billions of dollars. It will have schools under Chinese education system with I guess elements of local culture, language and geography.

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## SBUS-CXK

4GTejasBVR said:


> Differences are that you don't own anything inside these metros. Literally nothing. Not 1 paisa benifits chinese own. And India also exporting metros to Australia and many other things to China and rest of the world.
> 
> Dude i never thought CPEC will be disastrous. I knew its fishy in many ways. But duuuuuude u guys need some serious counciling on nationalism and mathematical calculations lessons
> 
> 
> Hope life was so easy to all citizens living inside Pakistan. Like u nri guys
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese ways of living is so stupid and so silly. They think they are superior. But the fact is very people are superior race in the world. Even poor Pakistanis won't be a puppet of chinese. May be for white man. Due to our pre independent history. But lol chinese?


we all know. India is a country with a low literacy rate and low life expectancy. Need me to provide evidence?

Think about it. I was discussing a problem with a 30% illiterate country. They don't even know their own country. And then they talk about CPEC? 

How rubbish is the India railway, You really don't know???


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## SabzShaheen

I'd rather have 500k or more Chinese in my country than any number of Afghans or Indians. Bonus if they'd revert to Islam but being a Muslim and a Pakistani, I would tolerate them regardless.


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## Laozi

Kaptaan said:


> Hard work, honesty, being productive, helping the poor, helping the sick is *my Islam*. *And Chinese are number one on these aspects.* So yes to China no to open pooping champions.



So for you, Atheism is okay as long as you have certain qualities.

May all Hindu and Islamic fanatics start believing in this concept.

Regards and respect 



khanmubashir said:


> The truth is somewhere in between but here is the ground reality after the trade starts and it's become lucrative if original agreement doesn't suit us we can renegotiate terms otherwise* if we can make it unworkable for USA forces in Afghanistan it won't be that tough to make it so for Chinese businesses in our own territories and Chinese r smart enough to know that*



Thanks fot being so candid and having a practical and tested solution for the likely future crisis 



SabzShaheen said:


> I'd rather have 500k or more Chinese in my country than any number of Afghans or Indians. *Bonus if they'd revert to Islam *but being a Muslim and a Pakistani, I would tolerate them regardless.



who can revert to a religion which is the newest


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Nalini said:


> The Jawan Beti here is Pakistani youth, looking for a growth, security, prosperity & happiness
> The proposed groom is CPEC, who will change the life of the Jawan Beti
> Amitabh is the Pakistani Leader (Politician/Military Establishment), selling the dream of CPEC
> The Maasi is the people of Balochistan & GB, who is not accepting the groom for marriage





We are not indians so the above analogy cannot apply or be relevant to Pakistan. indians said EXACTLY the same with regards to Pakistan becoming a nuclear weapons state with and we all know how that one turned out


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## Chhatrapati

Two said:


> we all know. India is a country with a low literacy rate and low life expectancy. Need me to provide evidence?
> 
> Think about it. I was discussing a problem with a 30% illiterate country. They don't even know their own country. And then they talk about CPEC?
> 
> How rubbish is the India railway, You really don't know???


So is Pakistan or worse. Why not try this on them? Nearly half of em being illiterate. And that's South Asia, Sri Lanka faring better. 

And Funny dp



SabzShaheen said:


> I'd rather have 500k or more Chinese in my country than any number of Afghans or *Indians*.


We are not stupid to cross to an enemy nation for a job.



> Bonus if they'd revert to Islam but being a Muslim and a Pakistani, I would tolerate them regardless.


Chinese are as un-islamic as anyone can get. They are not gonna revert to anything. Rather they will propagate their own ways (If they dare).


war&peace said:


> Chinese culture influenced by Confucius teachings is very different. This is an educated and peaceful way of dealing with the thing Western-hypocrites and their *westoxified* toxic losers always advocate use of power and inhuman ways while preaching others about humanity.


Take a look at China. More westoxified than Pakistan ever could be, traditional Chinese beliefs are lost with cultural revolution and maoism (or communism). 
Although I agree what you said about the west.


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## Indus Pakistan

Laozi said:


> So for you, Atheism is okay as long as you have certain qualities.


As long as a fellow human being works hard, is honest, helps the poor, helps to aleviate the sick, contributes to society, is law abiding, helps to improve society why should I have a problem. He is far better then sombody who goes around invoking name of Allah at every turn but kills, steals, rapes, etc etc.

_In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful _

_Say: "Oh, you who disbelieve!_
_"I do not worship that which you worship,_
_"Nor do you worship That Which I worship._
_"Nor will I worship that which you have been worshipping,_
_"Neither will you worship That Which I worship._
_"To you your religion and to me mine."_


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

1. Pakistan will get 9 percent,which is same that Singapore port authority was giving.
2. we will get a port and an infrastructure.
3. energy crisis will be solved.
4. military will get another port to avoid any naval blockade.
5. our transport industry will flourish.
6. our exports will increase.
7. millions of jobs will be created in economic zones under cpec.
8. we will get 20 percent from economic zones. Chinese will get 80.
9. optical fibre and technology parks will help our booming industries flourish even more.
10. Chinese oil imports of 600 billion mostly from middle east will help us generate billions due to transport and roads toll income.
11. China will have to help us in any war for the sake of it's own investment.
12. many countries ave already joined CPEC and many more including Iran wants to join.
13. rail service from Pakistan to china and Pakistan to Iran, turkey will be the cheapest way to reach easter Europe.
14. Chinese investment in mining industry will be the backbone of our economy in future. our mountains will make us an economic power.
15. more connectivity with central Asian countries by passing Afghanistan.
17. Pakistan won't be returning any loan as Chinese companies will return the money as they took it from different banks.
18. Tourism will increase due to increase infrastructure development and better connectivity. Chinese tourists will be coming to Pakistan in millions.
19. More Pakistanis will visit China for higher education due to more Chinese companies in Pakistan.
20. CPEC investment will reach 150 billion dollars by 2025.
21. middle eastern and Europe will use CPEC nor some Iranian port for trade with china or central Asia.

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## somebozo

SOUTHie said:


> Take a look at China. More westoxified than Pakistan ever could be, traditional Chinese beliefs are lost with cultural revolution and maoism (or communism).
> Although I agree what you said about the west.



I think its time for traditional belief to be lost in Pakistan as well..Hinduism replaced with Islam, millions of gods replaced with one.


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## Chhatrapati

somebozo said:


> I think its time for traditional belief to be lost in Pakistan as well..Hinduism replaced with Islam, millions of gods replaced with one.


Hmmm. You just had a large protest blocking capital city and major cities, over a typo error (as claimed). 

Replacing it with atheism is nothing but a fantasy.


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## Laozi

somebozo said:


> I think its time for traditional belief to be lost in Pakistan as well..Hinduism replaced with Islam, millions of gods replaced with one.


a minor correction

in Hinduism there is only one Almighty ( Param_Atma ) though you can have n numbers of gods.

even guests ( athithi ) are considered as gods ( deva )

soon some hindus will start considering 'Google' a god, since it knows more than the rest

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## SabzShaheen

Laozi said:


> who can revert to a religion which is the newest


We believe all humans are born Muslim but may be led astray due to their upbringing, hence we say a person has "reverted" to Islam when they return to their birth faith later in life.




SOUTHie said:


> Chinese are as un-islamic as anyone can get. They are not gonna revert to anything. Rather they will propagate their own ways (If they dare).


You are not the one to say who Allah (SWT) chooses to guide and who He doesn't. Besides, being surrounded by kind, accepting and accommodating Muslims can change even the biggest Islamophobes or atheists so long as Allah (SWT) wills it.


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## Sully3

takeitwithyou said:


> Here is what I've read and a guaranteed reaction from Pakistani soon coming forth. It flies in the face of any logic, but hey they are so emotionally vested in China that they actually say to....
> 
> 1. China says it will hire 500,000 Chinese workers and not Pakistanis for CPEC- *PDF Pakistani replies here actually insult their own citizen's capabilities and rejoice about this new*s.
> 
> 2. China will take a ridiculous 91% of all earnings for 40 years. *PDF Pakistani says, wow we get 9% of (yet to be determined actual earning)toll charges.*
> 
> 3. China seeks their military presence and marines in the sovereign Pakistani soil. *PDF Pakistanis talk about giving up more land to China*
> 
> Only a few weeks ago we saw an article here which said Pakistan refused to take a loan from China for a Dam project, which Pakistan could do for hundreds of millions whereas China was charging them almost couple of billions to do the same and cost high interest on the loan. Now imagine how they are fleecing Pakistan on CPEC.
> Ultimately, they are doing a Sri Lanka on Pakistan; it's all about making it impossible to pay back and in return forced to give up sovereign land rights for 100 years. A coup of sovereign land without a single bloodshed due to war.


all i see is a false flagging indian sprouting nothing but hate against China and Pakistan. 

Keep it up, we dont give a flaying F about your opinion. 

good day.

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## takeitwithyou

Sully3 said:


> all i see is a false flagging indian sprouting nothing but hate against China and Pakistan.
> 
> Keep it up, we dont give a flaying F about your opinion.
> 
> good day.


Forrest for the trees 

lol -while not give a "flaying" F__ still posting. Sully, you are too easy

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## Sully3

takeitwithyou said:


> Forrest for the trees
> 
> lol -while not give a "flaying" F__ still posting. Sully, you are too easy


whilst spreading your hatred against China and Pakistan (as you are an Indian) on our forum, whilst typing your comments using a laptop, tablet or smart phone that was made in china.
Ultimate irony ay.

slap after slap on your face


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## 4GTejasBVR

Two said:


> we all know. India is a country with a low literacy rate and low life expectancy. Need me to provide evidence?
> 
> Think about it. I was discussing a problem with a 30% illiterate country. They don't even know their own country. And then they talk about CPEC?
> 
> How rubbish is the India railway, You really don't know???


Arey you a joker?

Indian Railways is not some taxi service. With few passengers.

Over 8 billion person get transported each year. 22 million passengers travels every day. And ofcourse we are not dictator regime like China. If they want they will smash ur house and alot you a some land somewhere. In India its not
possible. Every citizen can reject any thing and file a complaint. And court decide future course of action with rightful compensation. You don't have a clue about freedom in India trust me. 


Just check this wiki It is the fourth largest railway network in the world comprising 119,630 kilometres (74,330 mi) of total track[4] and 92,081 km (57,216 mi) of running track over a route of 66,687 km (41,437 mi) with 7,216 stations at the end of 2015-16.[2] In 2015-16, IR carried 8.107 billion passengers annually or more than 22 million passengers a day and 1.101 billion tons of freight annually.[2] As of the end of 2015-16, of the total 68,525 km (42,579 mi) route length, 28,327 km (17,602 mi) or 45% were electrified and 28,371 km (17,629 mi) or 37% were double or multiple line routes.




And i dont whom you are referring to 30% illiterate people and discussing CPEC with them. Lol you were the one who wanted it in 1st place if its Pakistan



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> We are not indians so the above analogy cannot apply or be relevant to Pakistan. indians said EXACTLY the same with regards to Pakistan becoming a nuclear weapons state with and we all know how that one turned out



Oh gwaaaddd... Why u always keep bringing nuclear state state :') . Even North Korea too. What what about state? India don't want to mess up Pakistan as it will affect our country too. U act like a buffer between war torn countries and India. Only good thing still keeps India calm. Even in event of war we will make sure you will exit but with smaller land. So u can take hits from central Asian mess 



Kaptaan said:


> It is my considered opinon the worse *slavemaster* is poverty - it is the *master* of hunger, disease, suffering, inequity, the daily varied sufferings that it inflicts on our souls. Go check out the condition of your Dalits or slums. Ask them what sovereignty means. Ask the Pakistan migrant taking gulps of salty Mediteranean Sea as it swallows him what national pride means. A thousand miles from his mother who bore him. A screaming quite death.
> 
> It is because our lives are easy that we know what really matters. And it woulf be nice to see it visit millions of my less fortunate people.



U can keep bringing internal political issues of India. But you yet to answer my analogy. I mean come on some fansy Pakistanis want CPEC so they can have better malls roads cinema halls? Well you by the way already killed many small businesses in Pakistan with chinese import. Now with CPEC you provide tax free entry to chinese manufactures who are facing decline in demand in their country. But Pakistanis who want to invest in CPEC and make their fortune will be scrutinized with stringent laws and taxes. And what do you expect them will be gaining against mass production units of China? Huge demand for their costly goods with in Pakistan? Even Pakistanis will not buying their goods. Patriotism is a laxuary to many under poverty. They will choose cheep goods. And many don't even know which is Pakistanis and chinese products because when chinese will market their products they will make is as pakistani goods as possibl
possible. U guys are gone crazy with CPEC huge numbers. Hope Pakistan wil be alright after implementation of CPEC in decades. Even though its quite unlikely given the rules of the game of chinese deals and free loans


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

4GTejasBVR said:


> Arey you a joker?
> 
> Indian Railways is not some taxi service. With few passengers.
> 
> Over 8 billion person get transported each year. 22 million passengers travels every day. And ofcourse we are not dictator regime like China. If they want they will smash ur house and alot you a some land somewhere. In India its not
> possible. Every citizen can reject any thing and file a complaint. And court decide future course of action with rightful compensation. You don't have a clue about freedom in India trust me.
> 
> 
> Just check this wiki It is the fourth largest railway network in the world comprising 119,630 kilometres (74,330 mi) of total track[4] and 92,081 km (57,216 mi) of running track over a route of 66,687 km (41,437 mi) with 7,216 stations at the end of 2015-16.[2] In 2015-16, IR carried 8.107 billion passengers annually or more than 22 million passengers a day and 1.101 billion tons of freight annually.[2] As of the end of 2015-16, of the total 68,525 km (42,579 mi) route length, 28,327 km (17,602 mi) or 45% were electrified and 28,371 km (17,629 mi) or 37% were double or multiple line routes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And i dont whom you are referring to 30% illiterate people and discussing CPEC with them. Lol you were the one who wanted it in 1st place if its Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> Oh gwaaaddd... Why u always keep bringing nuclear state state :') . Even North Korea too. What what about state? India don't want to mess up Pakistan as it will affect our country too. U act like a buffer between war torn countries and India. Only good thing still keeps India calm. Even in event of war we will make sure you will exit but with smaller land. So u can take hits from central Asian mess




in the event of war???????.........
Like after mumbai 2008?  it is evident from that event that india is too weak, powerless and unable to fight Pakistan in a war despite being more than 7x bigger than us and having abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege.

india ain't and can't do anything. All you can do is bark like dogs on the internet and fantasize. That's all. Keep barking indian dogs! 


PS Your rant about CPEC is very telling. You know CPEC is going to be very successful when a memeber of the race which calls for the destruction of the Pakistani race and nation is always critical about it and is all of a sudden concerned with the Pakistani economy

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## Laozi

Sully3 said:


> whilst spreading your hatred against China and Pakistan (as you are an Indian) on our forum, whilst typing your comments *using a laptop, tablet or smart phone that was made in china.*
> Ultimate irony ay.
> 
> slap after slap on your face


In case your Chinese laptop, tablet or smartphone uses a software made by a company which is headed by an Indian 

"Ultimate irony ay.

slap after slap on your face"​


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## 4GTejasBVR

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> in the event of war???????.........
> Like after mumbai 2008?  it is evident from that event that india is too weak, powerless and unable to fight Pakistan in a war despite being more than 7x bigger than us and having abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege.
> 
> india ain't and can't do anything. All you can do is bark like dogs on the internet and fantasize. That's all. Keep barking indian dogs!
> 
> 
> PS Your rant about CPEC is very telling. You know CPEC is going to be very successful when a memeber of the race which calls for the destruction of the Pakistani race and nation is always critical about it and is all of a sudden concerned with the Pakistani economy



I know its hard to belive enemy wanted to give some piece of advice. But come on dude. Ur state of affairs is that saddening. One side we are happy about it but on other side u feel it dont have to be like this. We respect rightful enemies. Not weakened ones for sure. 

On 2008 : We are that much responsible people unlike u guys. War is something that keeps some nation's integrity. Am not saying its Pakistan. But if Pakistan become more stable it will be good for the region m we don't want unstable nuclear power Pakistan u see. Its like giving flower to a monkey. 

if that's what u want for ur country then we have no problem. U can have it. We know how to handle


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## sinait

4GTejasBVR said:


> Arey you a joker?
> 
> Indian Railways is not some taxi service. With few passengers.
> 
> Over 8 billion person get transported each year. 22 million passengers travels every day. And ofcourse we are not dictator regime like China. If they want they will smash ur house and alot you a some land somewhere. In India its not
> possible. Every citizen can reject any thing and file a complaint. And court decide future course of action with rightful compensation. You don't have a clue about freedom in India trust me.
> 
> Just check this wiki It is the fourth largest railway network in the world comprising 119,630 kilometres (74,330 mi) of total track[4] and 92,081 km (57,216 mi) of running track over a route of 66,687 km (41,437 mi) with 7,216 stations at the end of 2015-16.[2] In 2015-16, IR carried 8.107 billion passengers annually or more than 22 million passengers a day and 1.101 billion tons of freight annually.[2] As of the end of 2015-16, of the total 68,525 km (42,579 mi) route length, 28,327 km (17,602 mi) or 45% were electrified and 28,371 km (17,629 mi) or 37% were double or multiple line routes.
> 
> And i dont whom you are referring to 30% illiterate people and discussing CPEC with them. Lol you were the one who wanted it in 1st place if its Pakistan
> 
> Oh gwaaaddd... Why u always keep bringing nuclear state state :') . Even North Korea too. What what about state? India don't want to mess up Pakistan as it will affect our country too. U act like a buffer between war torn countries and India. Only good thing still keeps India calm. Even in event of war we will make sure you will exit but with smaller land. So u can take hits from central Asian mess





> In India its not possible. Every citizen can reject any thing and file a complaint. And court decide future course of action with rightful compensation. You don't have a clue about freedom in India trust me.


Why are you telling us your problems as excuse for India's pathetic performance.
So you are telling us India's democracy system sucks ?

In Singapore we also have problems with our MRT. 
We eat humble pie, admit our problems and get the experts with proven track record of excellence from Taiwan and Hong Kong to help us improve, instead of the Indian way of whining and blaming like you.

https://www.aseantoday.com/2017/11/hong-kong-and-taipei-hold-the-solutions-to-singapores-broken-mrt/
*Hong Kong and Taipei hold the solutions to Singapore’s broken MRT  *
*Desmond Kuek has invited a group of experts from Taipei Metro to identify problems in SMRT.* This could represent a major watershed in the turnaround of SMRT. Recent incidents are a signal that SMRT is crying out for a change in working culture. The first step to recovery is admitting there is a problem. The invitation of representatives from Taipei is a signal that SMRT leadership is ready to admit the existence of deep-rooted problems

To be the best, the SMRT needs to learn from the best. *The SMRT must swallow its pride and look to Hong Kong and Taipei as an example of how to improve its service*. The only way to silence critics is through tangible results. Show the public an improved service and the social media outcries will end.
.


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## Laozi

SabzShaheen said:


> *We believe all humans are born Muslim *but may be led astray due to their upbringing, hence we say a person has "reverted" to Islam when they return to their birth faith later in life



All humans ?

You mean to say that every human born after the origin of Islam has suddenly started being born as Muslim ?

OR

All humans ever born on this planet were Muslims irrrespective of whether they knew Islam and followed Islam or not ?

anyways "Happy Believing"


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## 4GTejasBVR

sinait said:


> Why are you telling us your problems as excuse for India's pathetic performance.
> So you are telling us India's democracy system sucks ?
> 
> In Singapore we also have problems with our MRT.
> We eat humble pie, admit our problems and get the experts with proven track record of excellence from Taiwan and Hong Kong to help us improve, instead of the Indian way of whining and blaming like you.
> 
> https://www.aseantoday.com/2017/11/hong-kong-and-taipei-hold-the-solutions-to-singapores-broken-mrt/
> *Hong Kong and Taipei hold the solutions to Singapore’s broken MRT  *
> *Desmond Kuek has invited a group of experts from Taipei Metro to identify problems in SMRT.* This could represent a major watershed in the turnaround of SMRT. Recent incidents are a signal that SMRT is crying out for a change in working culture. The first step to recovery is admitting there is a problem. The invitation of representatives from Taipei is a signal that SMRT leadership is ready to admit the existence of deep-rooted problems
> 
> To be the best, the SMRT needs to learn from the best. *The SMRT must swallow its pride and look to Hong Kong and Taipei as an example of how to improve its service*. The only way to silence critics is through tangible results. Show the public an improved service and the social media outcries will end.
> .


Dude who is telling this as excuse. And what will happen if i tell my problem to you. You will solve? Yes we do have problems of our own m unlike you gifted divine beings. And we are hard working to overcome. Unlike for u people all our success are from every citizens of India. Our government do less. So think about when we have a good government. We will out performe China 
In growth faster and more stable. Why i should work as a scientist if my intrest is in Art? That's what freedom in India gives me.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

4GTejasBVR said:


> I know its hard to belive enemy wanted to give some piece of advice. But come on dude. Ur state of affairs is that saddening. One side we are happy about it but on other side u feel it dont have to be like this. We respect rightful enemies. Not weakened ones for sure.
> 
> On 2008 : We are that much responsible people unlike u guys. War is something that keeps some nation's integrity. Am not saying its Pakistan. But if Pakistan become more stable it will be good for the region m we don't want unstable nuclear power Pakistan u see. Its like giving flower to a monkey.
> 
> if that's what u want for ur country then we have no problem. U can have it. We know how to handle





Keep talking indian BS. More pathetic excuses as to why india is too weak, powerless and unable to fight Pakistan despite india being 7x bigger than us and having abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege..........

Come on then! What are you waiting for? Don't keep talking. Come and try us if you can. If not then indians are all talk. As they have been for at least 5000 years


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## RoadRunner401

Unfortunately, we In Pakistan can't get the good investors like the Indians get, they (foreign investors) only invest in India out of goodness of their heart and leave without making a penny of profit on principle, so it is understandable why Indians find Chinese investors want to make money out of their investment confusing and bad idea for Pakistan

CPEC is a nightmare for Indians, they have been spending millions/year destabilizing Pakistan, Safety and security situation created by Indians makes investors flee Pakistan that in turns hurts us economically and keeps Pakistan weak against India, but here is a nightmare for Indians, Chinese Investing billions into Pakistan's economy and as you can see they are at it 24/7 spreading rumors and propaganda.

let me explain this in layman's terms to s.h.i.t for brains and the idiots on our side of the border that doesn't understand a very simple thing.

Chines investors are investing billions in this project including and not limited to roads, bridges, power plants and so on and so on and only an idiot will believe that they will not want to make a profit out of this

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## Chhatrapati

SabzShaheen said:


> You are not the one to say who Allah (SWT) chooses to guide and who He doesn't. Besides, being surrounded by kind, accepting and accommodating Muslims can change even the biggest Islamophobes or atheists so long as Allah (SWT) wills it.



I wish you good luck in that endeavor.


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## Sully3

Laozi said:


> In case your Chinese laptop, tablet or smartphone uses a software made by a company which is headed by an Indian
> 
> "Ultimate irony ay.
> 
> slap after slap on your face"​


haha ultimate fail
My apple laptop or my phones software was not developed in a 3rd world country like india.

secondly let me school you in some basic economics my temple educated indian friend.
when you buy a product from google no benefit comes to India just because the CEO of the company is indian. but when you buy any electronics that is made in china regardless what nationality the CEO of the company is China gets a percentage of benefit from it because at the end of the day the product is made in china. Hence why their economy is 50x times the size of india.

so yes as you sit there typing your comments on pdf using a phone or laptop that is made in china is the ultimate irony.
Slap after slap on your indian faces when you type anti chinese comments on electronics that is made by China. i know it kills you inside supporting the mighty chinese economy

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## Sam Vaish

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Keep talking indian BS. More pathetic excuses as to why india is too weak, powerless and unable to fight Pakistan despite india being 7x bigger than us and having abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege..........
> 
> Come on then! What are you waiting for? Don't keep talking. Come and try us if you can. If not then indians are all talk. As they have been for at least 5000 years


What are you talking about mr pakistani. We can thrash any country like yours any time. So you have to be careful before your big mouth.


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## SBUS-CXK

4GTejasBVR said:


> Arey you a joker?
> 
> Indian Railways is not some taxi service. With few passengers.
> 
> Over 8 billion person get transported each year. 22 million passengers travels every day. And ofcourse we are not dictator regime like China. If they want they will smash ur house and alot you a some land somewhere. In India its not
> possible. Every citizen can reject any thing and file a complaint. And court decide future course of action with rightful compensation. You don't have a clue about freedom in India trust me.
> 
> 
> Just check this wiki It is the fourth largest railway network in the world comprising 119,630 kilometres (74,330 mi) of total track[4] and 92,081 km (57,216 mi) of running track over a route of 66,687 km (41,437 mi) with 7,216 stations at the end of 2015-16.[2] In 2015-16, IR carried 8.107 billion passengers annually or more than 22 million passengers a day and 1.101 billion tons of freight annually.[2] As of the end of 2015-16, of the total 68,525 km (42,579 mi) route length, 28,327 km (17,602 mi) or 45% were electrified and 28,371 km (17,629 mi) or 37% were double or multiple line routes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And i dont whom you are referring to 30% illiterate people and discussing CPEC with them. Lol you were the one who wanted it in 1st place if its Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> Oh gwaaaddd... Why u always keep bringing nuclear state state :') . Even North Korea too. What what about state? India don't want to mess up Pakistan as it will affect our country too. U act like a buffer between war torn countries and India. Only good thing still keeps India calm. Even in event of war we will make sure you will exit but with smaller land. So u can take hits from central Asian mess
> 
> 
> 
> U can keep bringing internal political issues of India. But you yet to answer my analogy. I mean come on some fansy Pakistanis want CPEC so they can have better malls roads cinema halls? Well you by the way already killed many small businesses in Pakistan with chinese import. Now with CPEC you provide tax free entry to chinese manufactures who are facing decline in demand in their country. But Pakistanis who want to invest in CPEC and make their fortune will be scrutinized with stringent laws and taxes. And what do you expect them will be gaining against mass production units of China? Huge demand for their costly goods with in Pakistan? Even Pakistanis will not buying their goods. Patriotism is a laxuary to many under poverty. They will choose cheep goods. And many don't even know which is Pakistanis and chinese products because when chinese will market their products they will make is as pakistani goods as possibl
> possible. U guys are gone crazy with CPEC huge numbers. Hope Pakistan wil be alright after implementation of CPEC in decades. Even though its quite unlikely given the rules of the game of chinese deals and free loans


wow, 1 billion Dalits democracy... they don't know the bureaucrats in India... so I say Indians don't know their country. Lol, a lovely Indian.

It seems that illiterate countries have better "fantasies".


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## sinait

4GTejasBVR said:


> Dude who is telling this as excuse. And what will happen if i tell my problem to you. You will solve? Yes we do have problems of our own m unlike you gifted divine beings. And we are hard working to overcome. Unlike for u people all our success are from every citizens of India. Our government do less. So think about when we have a good government. *We will out performe China*
> In growth faster and more stable. Why i should work as a scientist if my intrest is in Art? That's what freedom in India gives me.


I am sick of hearing India didn't achieve this because of this or that for many decades already.
Sick of hearing India *WILL BE THIS and WILL BE THAT* for ages.
If you are happy to have freedom to be poor, then be happy and no need to give any more excuses.

*DON'T* tell me your problem.
Solve it yourself and tell us about it after you solved it and made a success of it, NOT BEFORE.
No more *WILL* *BE*, please.

You think as if only India have such problems, and the success of other countries is not because of its people's willingness to make sacrifices and endure injustice and unfairness for the sake of their country.
.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Sam Vaish said:


> What are you talking about mr pakistani. We can thrash any country like yours any time. So you have to be careful before your big mouth.





So what happened after mumbai 2008 and uri 2016? What is indian kind waiting for? Please come and try or are you just going to rant, rave and talk big on the internet? Is that what it has come too?

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## SBUS-CXK

SOUTHie said:


> So is Pakistan or worse. Why not try this on them? Nearly half of em being illiterate. And that's South Asia, Sri Lanka faring better.
> 
> And Funny dp
> 
> 
> We are not stupid to cross to an enemy nation for a job.
> 
> 
> Chinese are as un-islamic as anyone can get. They are not gonna revert to anything. Rather they will propagate their own ways (If they dare).
> 
> Take a look at China. More westoxified than Pakistan ever could be, traditional Chinese beliefs are lost with cultural revolution and maoism (or communism).
> Although I agree what you said about the west.


I think I understand you enough.

CCP is the reason for your failure.
Pakistan is a "armor" for your failure. And it's "compound armor"...


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## Chhatrapati

Two said:


> I think I understand you enough.
> 
> CCP is the reason for your failure.
> Pakistan is a "armor" for your failure. And it's "compound armor"...


Well, you don't understand me at all. CCP is one big failure.
Pakistan is not armour for my failure, it never was. Insignificant to us as an economic threat. May be security threat to that matter. 
And we haven't failed, we are improvising.


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## Sully3

Sam Vaish said:


> What are you talking about mr pakistani. *We can thrash any country like yours any time*. So you have to be careful before your big mouth.


so whats stopping you? 

7x times larger bigger economy yet pakistan slaps you in the face time and time again.

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## SBUS-CXK

SOUTHie said:


> Well, you don't understand me at all. CCP is one big failure.
> Pakistan is not armour for my failure, it never was. Insignificant to us as an economic threat. May be security threat to that matter.
> And we haven't failed, we are improvising.


applause... As a nationalist, to be honest, your opinion of the CCP has nothing to do with me. 

But Pakistan is our brother country, from national interest to emotion, we all firmly guarantee this friendship. Not too bad, Pakistan has no history of lying, unlike some countries that are getting our 400000 tons of food aid in 1951,then lied in 1962...


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## takeitwithyou

Sully3 said:


> whilst spreading your hatred against China and Pakistan (as you are an Indian) on our forum, whilst typing your comments using a laptop, tablet or smart phone that was made in china.
> Ultimate irony ay.
> 
> slap after slap on your face


No hatred, just sound fact-filled replies.
I don't do cheap phones or laptops. My avatar should give you a hint. But that's not the point. The point is the forum top troll deflects when met with sound debate. Here's your known modus Operandi on the forums.

1. When debated with sound replies, you start deflecting to another subject
2. When called out further, you start making racist and subtle anti-religion comments
3. mostly when shown your limited level of knowledge on practically all subjects, you go full-on on expletive-laden rants

too easy, too predictable- sully


----------



## Sully3

takeitwithyou said:


> No hatred, just sound fact-filled replies.
> I don't do cheap phones or laptops. My avatar should give you a hint. But that's not the point. The point is the forum top troll deflects when met with sound debate. Here's your known modus Operandi on the forums.
> 
> 1. When debated with sound replies, you start deflecting to another subject
> 2. When called out further, you start making racist and subtle anti-religion comments
> 3. mostly when shown your limited level of knowledge on practically all subjects, you go full-on on expletive-laden rants
> 
> too easy, too predictable- sully


Ohh please cry me a river.

stop false flagging and then we can have a mature discussion on anything you want. right now all i see is a wana be indian who's probably never step foot outside India pretending to be American so people on the forum give him some credibility 

Change your flags then we can talk. i dont know why you are embarrassed using an Indian flag


----------



## takeitwithyou

Sully3 said:


> Ohh please cry me a river.
> 
> stop false flagging and then we can have a mature discussion on anything you want. right now all i see is a wana be indian who's probably never step foot outside India pretending to be American so people on the forum give him some credibility
> 
> Change your flags then we can talk. i dont know why you are embarrassed using an Indian flag



 You are back to step 1. Clearly deflecting from the point you challenged me on and could not handle the sound fact filled reply. As predicted and waiting for you to move to step 2. 

So easy, So predictable, sully


----------



## randomradio

hussain0216 said:


> As long as we dont deal with indians or hindus then were alllll good!!!
> 
> Thanx for your thoughts



The Chinese are atheists.



Kaptaan said:


> Yehhhh. When the 500,000 Chinese have moved to Gwadar in swanky new city by 2023 I will visit Gwadar and buy a apartment there. Then go enjoy some real Chinese food. Can't wait. I am hoping Cathay Pacific or Chinese Airlines do flights from UK to Gwadar. And I suspect 1,000s of other Brittish-Pakistanis will folow suit.
> 
> Great times ahead ...



You will most likely be treated like a second class citizen there.


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## Indus Pakistan

randomradio said:


> You will most likely be treated like a second class citizen there.


Yeh of course I will. I lived in the West all my life in sea of people - many with delusions of superiority. I never brooked it once. And you think now I am going to get treated second class by Chinese? You fcukin kidding me here. No s.o.b will ever treat me second class - blond, blue eyed or short, epicanthic folds or Arab. My brother hangs around lots of Chinese in Sheffield. He bags the Chinese women faster then you can blink. The Koreans are a bit more tighter but they melt as well. How you are treated depends on the value you place on yourself. Our parents did not raise no second class to anybody. If you can handle English many of whom are large men with physical/intellectual and strong personalties - Chinese by comparison are children. 

Now if I see a beautiful women then yeh I don't mind being treated second class

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## hussain0216

randomradio said:


> The Chinese are atheists.



sure but we dont hate the Chinese!!!

as long as we dont see or deal with any indians we are happy, nothing to do with you

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## Laozi

Sully3 said:


> secondly let me school you in some basic economics *my temple educated indian friend.*
> when you buy a product from google *no benefit comes to India just because the CEO of the company is indian.* but when you buy any electronics that is made in china regardless what nationality the CEO of the company is China gets a percentage of benefit from it because at the *end of the day the product is made in china.*


In India if one is educated in a gurukul ( temple ) then it is considered an honour. I pray to almighty that in my next life I may be granted that honour of being educated in a Guru's temple.

If world's biggest companies are being headed by Indians then it proves two things.
1. World find Indians capable of doing so.
2. Such capable individuals will share their experience and knowledge to guide India to a brighter future.

Of course you cannot see any of the above intangible benefits which one reaps in future.

End of the day, products will be made by countries having cheap and skilled labour and Services will be provided by countries having more elite educated citizens

Thanks anyway for sharing your knowledge of economics with us.


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## randomradio

Kaptaan said:


> Yeh of course I will. I lived in the West all my life in sea of people - many with delusions of superiority. I never brooked it once. And you think now I am going to get treated second class by Chinese? You fcukin kidding me here. No s.o.b will ever treat me second class - blond, blue eyed or short, epicanthic folds or Arab. My brother hangs around lots of Chinese in Sheffield. He bags the Chinese women faster then you can blink. The Koreans are a bit more tighter but they melt as well. How you are treated depends on the value you place on yourself. Our parents did not raise no second class to anybody. If you can handle English many of whom are large men with physical/intellectual and strong personalties - Chinese by comparison are children.
> 
> Now if I see a beautiful women then yeh I don't mind being treated second class



That's not what I'm talking about. You will see Chinese-only hotels and malls, Chinese-only apartment complexes. SEZs will favour Chinese over Pakistani companies. You will see laws being framed that favour the Chinese, so on and so forth. More of a class difference, not race. Gwadar will in effect become a Chinese city.

For example, the immigration plans for 500,000 Chinese is actually a gated community called China Pak Hills. It's being built by the Chinese for the Chinese. Why will they invite you in?

And they are calling it a "first phase" project, so you know it's not going to end there.

Haven't you noticed? The Chinese are forcing the Pakistanis to allow the free use of yuan in Gwadar. Why do you think that is? Saner heads in Pak have stopped that for now, but for how long?


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## Indus Pakistan

randomradio said:


> example, the immigration plans for 500,000 Chinese is actually a gated community called China Pak Hills. It's being built by the Chinese for the Chinese. Why will they invite you in?


Yeh see one of the psychological effects of having been *enslaved* and this includes us all South Asians is 70 years after our freedom we suffer from a *victim complex*. Deep down we still are carrying the trauma of slavery and thus are still hostage to the colonial period as victims.

This condition is for example reflected in being *overly* consumed by the concept of soverignty. The reality is very few countries today are entirely soveriegn. The global trading order and defence pacts across the world eat into most countries sovereignty. Not long ago we used to have huge USAF airbases in UK that were armed with nukes. These bases mostly functioned beyond the remit of HM government. Mighty countries that fought like lions and are still the stuff of military history and movies like Germany and Japan had and still have huge US military bases. Some are as large as small towns with their own airfields, hospitals, police etc. 9/11 happens in New York and we have German troopers, Norwegian commandos, Latvian soldiers, French Legionaires, Danish commandos, Canadian paratroopers, Australian heli-troops patrolling in middle of Afghanistan when non ever got touched by 9/11. It's the price they pay of being part of a larger defence and econonmic order. No country can a be island unto itself.

We have to get past this "victim complex" and act with confidence. A bit like a rape victim sees a rapist around every corner we see our sovereignty under threat at every corner. We must move forward from this victim complex. Therefore if Pakistan has to even lease out the hammer head which until yesterday was just eight miles of sand and cliffs it is no problem. The real "gold" here is creating a economic linkage that injects much need competition and fresh ideas inside Pakistan. Right now Pakistan is stale with Mullah breath. We desperately need the country to be opended up to the outside. This is rather embarrasing but I will let you into a secret that not many Pakistanis will admit - either because of misplaced pride or ignorance. Pakistan has *no* real industry and no real industrialists. So this talk of Pakistani industry being wiped out is hocus pocus.

Our real industry is _people export_, followed by _commodity export_, followed by _renting our strategic location_. With the Chinese for the first time we have a chance that Pakistanis might be introduced to thinking like businessmen. That is why I went as far as suggesting leasing the hammerhead in Gwadar to China.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/gwadar-goes-red-specabad.530463/


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Kaptaan said:


> Yeh see one of the psychological effects of having been *enslaved* and this includes us all South Asians is 70 years after our freedom we suffer from a *victim complex*. Deep down we still are carrying the trauma of slavery and thus are still hostage to the colonial period as victims.
> 
> This condition is for example reflected in being *overly* consumed by the concept of soverignty. The reality is very few countries today are entirely soveriegn. The global trading order and defence pacts across the world eat into most countries sovereignty. Not long ago we used to have huge USAF airbases in UK that were armed with nukes. These bases mostly functioned beyond the remit of HM government. Mighty countries that fought like lions and are still the stuff of military history and movies like Germany and Japan had and still have huge US military bases. Some are as large as small towns with their own airfields, hospitals, police etc. 9/11 happens in New York and we have German troopers, Norwegian commandos, Latvian soldiers, French Legionaires, Danish commandos, Canadian paratroopers, Australian heli-troops patrolling in middle of Afghanistan when non ever got touched by 9/11. It's the price they pay of being part of a larger defence and econonmic order. No country can a be island unto itself.
> 
> We have to get past this "victime complex" and act with confidence. Therefore if Pakistan has to even lease out the hammer head which until yesterday was just eight miles of sand and cliffs it is no problem. The real "gold" here is creating a economic linkage that injects much need competition and fresh ideas inside Pakistan. Right now Pakistan is stale with Mullah breath. We desperately needthe country to be opended up to the outside. This is rather embarrasing but I will let you into a secret that not many Pakistanis will admit - either because of misplaced pride or ignorance. Pakistan has no real industry and no real industrialists. So this talk of Pakistani industry being wiped out is hocus pocus.
> 
> Our real industry is people export, followed by commodity export, followed by renting our strategic location. With the Chinese for the first time we have a chance that Pakistanis might be introduced to thinking like businessmen. That is why I went as far as suggesting leasing the hammerhead in Gwadar to China.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/gwadar-goes-red-specabad.530463/







"Mullah Breath"........ .......obviously a Mullah at a London Mosque must have burped near you after Iftar and you can still remeber the smell.............happened to me nearly 20 years when I was at college.........

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## khanmubashir

Laozi said:


> So for you, Atheism is okay as long as you have certain qualities.
> 
> May all Hindu and Islamic fanatics start believing in this concept.
> 
> Regards and respect
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks fot being so candid and having a practical and tested solution for the likely future crisis
> 
> 
> 
> who can revert to a religion which is the newest


I also said Chinese r smart enough to know that the reason USA failed in Afghanistan was that it disregarded our interest so we made USA interest unachievable in Afghanistan Chinese r here to make money and we would be allowing so to get our cut and they would have to accommodate us otherwise they can't make money ie and they know it 
And as USA Afghnistan saudi Yemen episodes show we look out for our interest so foreign trolls don't need to worry about us 



khanmubashir said:


> I also said Chinese r smart enough to know that the reason USA failed in Afghanistan was that it disregarded our interest so we made USA interest unachievable in Afghanistan Chinese r here to make money and we would be allowing so to get our cut and they would have to accommodate us otherwise they can't make money ie and they know it
> And as USA Afghnistan saudi Yemen episodes show we look out for our interest so foreign trolls don't need to worry about us


And these news of cancellation of some contracts like bhasha dam to China or decline of allowing Yuan use in gwadar is indication of demanding better terms which they have to provide as they have invested there 60 billions $ and only we can ensure it works same as we r the one who can provide solution of Afghnistan and USA knows it and so does China


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## Laozi

khanmubashir said:


> I also said Chinese r smart enough to know that the reason USA failed in Afghanistan was that it disregarded our interest *so we made USA interest unachievable in Afghanistan* Chinese r here to make money and we would be allowing so to get our cut and they would have to accommodate us *otherwise they can't make money* ie and they know it
> And as USA Afghnistan saudi Yemen episodes show we look out for our interest so foreign trolls don't need to worry about us



I am sure people like you who are candid enough to accept and challenge super powers can look after their nation's interest. Good Luck 



khanmubashir said:


> And these news of cancellation of some contracts like bhasha dam to China or decline of allowing Yuan use in gwadar is indication of demanding better terms which they have to provide as they have invested there 60 billions $ and only we can ensure it works same as we r the one who can provide solution of Afghnistan and USA knows it and so does China



I am glad that your new PM has guts to demand better deal from China


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## khanmubashir

Laozi said:


> I am sure people like you who are candid enough to accept and challenge super powers can look after their nation's interest. Good Luck
> 
> 
> 
> I am glad that your new PM has guts to demand better deal from China


I am not saying original cpec agreement was bad for us because it was a whole frame work of several with different conditions and arrangements now we want the less favorable ones to be modified And we r gonna get em too because now Chinese r vested 



khanmubashir said:


> And we r gonna get em too because now Chinese r vested


So no need of Indian trolls who use names of Chinese to be worried for us


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## SBUS-CXK

Sully3 said:


> Ohh please cry me a river.
> 
> stop false flagging and then we can have a mature discussion on anything you want. right now all i see is a wana be indian who's probably never step foot outside India pretending to be American so people on the forum give him some credibility
> 
> Change your flags then we can talk. i dont know why you are embarrassed using an Indian flag


Americans really care about CPEC?
NO. and how many Americans did you see in this thread?

So it's obvious. It seems that some members have no confidence in their own country. Oh, because it's very failed.


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## 4GTejasBVR

sinait said:


> I am sick of hearing India didn't achieve this because of this or that for many decades already.
> Sick of hearing India *WILL BE THIS and WILL BE THAT* for ages.
> If you are happy to have freedom to be poor, then be happy and no need to give any more excuses.
> 
> *DON'T* tell me your problem.
> Solve it yourself and tell us about it after you solved it and made a success of it, NOT BEFORE.
> No more *WILL* *BE*, please.
> 
> You think as if only India have such problems, and the success of other countries is not because of its people's willingness to make sacrifices and endure injustice and unfairness for the sake of their country.
> .



LOL show this attitude else where. Not with Indians. And bottles bullcraps with me. I have good friends of chinese origin who says different things. All you little people first grow up. One little ching mong war in ur region will through ur little countries back Into decades.



Two said:


> wow, 1 billion Dalits democracy... they don't know the bureaucrats in India... so I say Indians don't know their country. Lol, a lovely Indian.
> 
> It seems that illiterate countries have better "fantasies".



LOL look who is talking? When ever you use an android or google search always remember Indians managing it. Illiterate Indians hahaha.

Be bold. So as per you China became superpower? Or not. Yes or no simple question



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Keep talking indian BS. More pathetic excuses as to why india is too weak, powerless and unable to fight Pakistan despite india being 7x bigger than us and having abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege..........
> 
> Come on then! What are you waiting for? Don't keep talking. Come and try us if you can. If not then indians are all talk. As they have been for at least 5000 years


U means we have been for 5000 years? Or u are assuming you are from dubai sheikh family tree


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## Dungeness

SOUTHie said:


> Well, you don't understand me at all. *CCP is one big failure.*
> Pakistan is not armour for my failure, it never was. Insignificant to us as an economic threat. May be security threat to that matter.
> And we haven't failed, we are improvising.



It's like a black humor when an Indian calls CCP a failure.


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## SBUS-CXK

4GTejasBVR said:


> LOL show this attitude else where. Not with Indians. And bottles bullcraps with me. I have good friends of chinese origin who says different things. All you little people first grow up. One little ching mong war in ur region will through ur little countries back Into decades.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL look who is talking? When ever you use an android or google search always remember Indians managing it. Illiterate Indians hahaha.
> 
> Be bold. So as per you China became superpower? Or not. Yes or no simple question
> 
> 
> U means we have been for 5000 years? Or u are assuming you are from dubai sheikh family tree


Wow, so the Indian is the boss of Android or Google?
No, you are just an employee.

This is the boss.






so sorry, we do not have the "superpower" propaganda, it belongs only to India.


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## Suriya

Kaptaan said:


> The decisive factor in CPEC is not going to be interest rates, the industries. business practices, roads, repayments but something more in the arena of *politics*. Down the road I can guarantee that we will see a Chinese *versus* Mullah standoff. As more and more Chinese move into Pakistan CPEC will begin to take off. This will lead to more Chinese moving to Pakistan. The more Chinese will be measure of success.
> 
> However this will start a ticking bomb. At some stage, somewhere some Chinese are inadvertantly going end up falling *foul* of some Mullah who will then launch a demonstration like they did in Faizabad recently. This will place the Chinese against the Mullahs. The former will not give in a *inch*. Then the federal government will get involved because of Chinese pressure. The Chinese will expect a robust action. How this then plays out will decide the fate of CPEC. If the Chinese lose out they will gradually lose interest in long term plan and then just focus on the short term to recuperate their investment. Long Term investment will fizzle out. By way of example we may use the Lal Masjid incident of 2007 as a pointer to the future. Quote -
> 
> 
> _Students at the Red Mosque's two affiliated seminaries launched a campaign for Shari'a, occupying a nearby children's library and embarking on vigilante raids through the capital to stop what they called "un-Islamic activities," such as DVD vendors, barber shops and a *Chinese-run massage* parlor that they accused of being a brothel.[21]
> 
> On 27 March 2007, female students from Jamia Hafsa kidnapped three women, who they accused of running a brothel, and seized two policemen.[23] All of the women were released after supposedly confessing to running the brothel and were shown on the television wearing burqas. Also due in part to an intercession from the *Chinese Ambassador, Luo Zhaohui*.[24]
> 
> _
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _​_
> ISLAMABAD, June 23: The government on Saturday averted a near ‘diplomatic disaster’ between Pakistan and China by securing the release of nine Chinese nationals, six of them women, who were abducted by the Lal Masjid brigade form a massage parlour.
> Islamabad remained in the grip of intense diplomatic and security activity, with the Chinese envoy pleading the case of the abducted women and men with highly-embarrassed government functionaries.
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/253217/chinese-hostages-freed
> _
> Thus far we can have all the shenanigans within Pakistan but because Pakistan is islolated from the external world - something obvious by the limited foreign airlines operating in Pakistan despite being a country of 200 million people. However with CPEC Pakistan will open up to lots of Chinese. In this scenario it is only matter of when not if that the Chinese end up tripping on the Mullah trap. As we know it does not take much for that to happen. The Lal Masjid incident is a reminder of that.
> 
> With huge deluge of Chinese the chance of another similiar standoff taking place will be on the cards. Exactly how this then plays out will decide the fate of CPEC. Success or it will fizzle out. We will find out in time. The clock is *ticking*.





nop said:


> You're gonna see that Chinese businessmen wear local style cloth and visit Mullas with gifts, he may promise to help Mullas and his followers to dig some wells and provide them clean waters, this is a true story happened in Balochistan in the past. Chinese are good at turning a bad thing into a positive thing for both sides, in Chinese culture, danger and opportunity is two sides of the same coin.
> 
> The most funny thing you probably find is, some Chinese businessman will learn Qu'ran and talk about Islam with Mullas, and he even can convert to Islam, finally, they become ally of Mullas!
> 
> Forget to rely on Chinese to help you resolve the *Mulla Dilemma*.



1.*China men don't know Pakistani Mullah at all *

2.*Pakistani Mullahs don't know China man at all 


CPEC will change pakistan and more importantly pakistanis for ever for better or worse. A certain change from current discourse is waiting ahead .*

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## Sankpal

Good project by china for Chinese economy and China.

Sorry to say but same can't say about pakistan. China is the beneficiary country.


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## Max

cheap propaganda piece, lots of them will come, some of them in reputed media too, those who are butthurt with CPEC will try to stir hatred between Pakistan and China as usual with their low IQ propaganda and fail.

The Gwadar port profit sharing agreement is similar to what we offered to Singapore port authority but they wasted time and did nothing. moreover its on BOT whatever Chinese port authority will build (planned port city) will be transferred to Gawadar port authority after lease end. Pakistan will not spend a single penny.

As for Chinese coming to Pakistan, They are more then welcome, but the fact is Pakistan outnumber Chinese even on their own financed projects like power plants let alone the projects (with loans) for highways and motorways which are under construction by Govt run FWO..

not to mention all provinces and federal stake holder discuss the projects and its further scrutinised by parliamentary, provincial and Senate committees on CPEC.

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## randomradio

Kaptaan said:


> Yeh see one of the psychological effects of having been *enslaved* and this includes us all South Asians is 70 years after our freedom we suffer from a *victim complex*. Deep down we still are carrying the trauma of slavery and thus are still hostage to the colonial period as victims.
> 
> This condition is for example reflected in being *overly* consumed by the concept of soverignty. The reality is very few countries today are entirely soveriegn. The global trading order and defence pacts across the world eat into most countries sovereignty. Not long ago we used to have huge USAF airbases in UK that were armed with nukes. These bases mostly functioned beyond the remit of HM government. Mighty countries that fought like lions and are still the stuff of military history and movies like Germany and Japan had and still have huge US military bases. Some are as large as small towns with their own airfields, hospitals, police etc. 9/11 happens in New York and we have German troopers, Norwegian commandos, Latvian soldiers, French Legionaires, Danish commandos, Canadian paratroopers, Australian heli-troops patrolling in middle of Afghanistan when non ever got touched by 9/11. It's the price they pay of being part of a larger defence and econonmic order. No country can a be island unto itself.
> 
> We have to get past this "victim complex" and act with confidence. A bit like a rape victim sees a rapist around every corner we see our sovereignty under threat at every corner. We must move forward from this victim complex. Therefore if Pakistan has to even lease out the hammer head which until yesterday was just eight miles of sand and cliffs it is no problem. The real "gold" here is creating a economic linkage that injects much need competition and fresh ideas inside Pakistan. Right now Pakistan is stale with Mullah breath. We desperately need the country to be opended up to the outside. This is rather embarrasing but I will let you into a secret that not many Pakistanis will admit - either because of misplaced pride or ignorance. Pakistan has *no* real industry and no real industrialists. So this talk of Pakistani industry being wiped out is hocus pocus.
> 
> Our real industry is _people export_, followed by _commodity export_, followed by _renting our strategic location_. With the Chinese for the first time we have a chance that Pakistanis might be introduced to thinking like businessmen. That is why I went as far as suggesting leasing the hammerhead in Gwadar to China.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/gwadar-goes-red-specabad.530463/





Dude, you are trying to find some weird philosophical solution that won't work for a very real problem. There's a huge difference between having a victim complex and allowing yourself to become a victim. 

What you are basically saying is, "Hey, that lake is full of crocs. If I change my attitude, they won't attack me, so I can enter the water without worries".


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

4GTejasBVR said:


> LOL show this attitude else where. Not with Indians. And bottles bullcraps with me. I have good friends of chinese origin who says different things. All you little people first grow up. One little ching mong war in ur region will through ur little countries back Into decades.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL look who is talking? When ever you use an android or google search always remember Indians managing it. Illiterate Indians hahaha.
> 
> Be bold. So as per you China became superpower? Or not. Yes or no simple question
> 
> 
> U means we have been for 5000 years? Or u are assuming you are from dubai sheikh family tree




Diverting from the topic? So when is india EVER going to be able fight Pakistan? That's an actual war with us or are you just going to talk indian BS and rant on the internet?  india is more than 7x bigger than us and has abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege so why are you so scared of us?  Come and try to fight us. We are waiting...........don't keep talking 



Sankpal said:


> Good project by china for Chinese economy and China.
> 
> Sorry to say but same can't say about pakistan. China is the beneficiary country.





Would an indian say anything else? A bit like when indians uesd to claim that it is impossible for Pakistan to EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance. The West & Russia would stop it  We all know what happened to that indianism. Just as then so is now..............

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## Sergi

Hmmm 
- 13% interest rate which includes 7% insurance cost !!!! 
- Pak will get 9% of profit.
So something happen in that SEZ then the cost of repair will be paid through insurance money. So no loss to China But it will cut down profits and reduce Pak revenue ie problems in repaying!!! 
Pak should guard that investment with TOp priority.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Sergi said:


> Hmmm
> - 13% interest rate which includes 7% insurance cost !!!!
> - Pak will get 9% of profit.
> So something happen in that SEZ then the cost of repair will be paid through insurance money. So no loss to China But it will cut down profits and reduce Pak revenue ie problems in repaying!!!
> Pak should guard that investment with TOp priority.





A bit like indian kind used to say that Pakistan would cease to exist by 2005 due to sanctions imposed on us after our 1998 Nuke tests.........lol......

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## Laozi

khanmubashir said:


> don't need to *worry *about us





khanmubashir said:


> who use names of Chinese to be *worried *for us



Well, someone is really worried and trying to pretend confident 

If CPEC fails then relations between Pakistan and China will sour and it will make Pakistan a weaker state and might lead to her disintegration which might trouble India in short term.

If CPEC succeeds then Pakistan will have to become a modern state with no scope for religious fanatism and a progressive economic country, which is in fact a blessing for India in longer run.

Lets see whether Pakistanis will succeed in saving CPEC or Mullah ruled state in future

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## Malik Usman

Mostly People giving comments here including that Blogger who wrote this article having no knowledge.....
For the argument sake let's assume for a minute that he is right..............but he forget to mention the bigger picture of CPEC....CPEC is not just a Gawadar Port as mostly people misunderstood this.......CPEC means (China Pakistan Economic Corridor)....and that means in whole Pakistan Infrastructure is under development, Highways, Motorways and Industries are setting up and how many people will get business and jobs once this whole operation will be started....these people have no idea...

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## BATMAN

HAKIKAT said:


> It's like asking Beni Istail to stay back with Pharaoh and not to join Moses (PBUH) at the pass-over!!! Pak's mortal enemies are getting maniacs!!!!


Is this not a proof enough that CPEC is actually Albatross in the neck of enemies of Pakistan !



lastofthepatriots said:


> Chinese in Karachi have already done that. They speak our language and wear our clothes.


While $billions of American aid is flowing to Indian Gujrat.

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## Foo_Fighter

CPEC for Pakistan is as good AS Modi for India. Now beat it!!


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## BATMAN

Sergi said:


> Pak should guard that investment with TOp priority.


Our politicians only understand the language of money.
Now tell Ajit Devil to pay double and buy them back, there's no other solution.

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## Laozi

BATMAN said:


> While $billions of American aid is flowing to Indian Gujrat.



_In the financial year 2015-16 India gave Rs. 7719.65 crores as aid whereas it received Rs. 2,144.77 crore in aid from foreign countries and global banks.
http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...-gives-more-aid-than-it-receives-1584604.html_


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## SabzShaheen

Laozi said:


> All humans ?
> 
> You mean to say that every human born after the origin of Islam has suddenly started being born as Muslim ?
> 
> OR
> 
> All humans ever born on this planet were Muslims irrrespective of whether they knew Islam and followed Islam or not ?


The sharia of the religion has changed but the basic message of the oneness of God has remained the same therefore we say that Islam is the oldest religion and everyone from Adam (peace be upon him) was born a Muslim as a Muslim is one who submits to God. The message of Islam revealed to Rasoolullah (peace be upon him) is in the shape of the Qu'ran but the basic message is the same.


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## Laozi

SabzShaheen said:


> The sharia of the religion has changed but the basic message of the *oneness of God has remained the same* therefore we say that Islam is the oldest religion and everyone from Adam (peace be upon him) was born a Muslim as a Muslim is one who submits to God. The message of Islam revealed to Rasoolullah (peace be upon him) is in the shape of the Qu'ran but the basic message is the same.


Good to know that Vedas and Hinduism also believe in oneness of God. Same as yours


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## Sully3

Laozi said:


> In India if one is educated in a gurukul ( temple ) then it is considered an honour. I pray to almighty that in my next life I may be granted that honour of being educated in a Guru's temple.
> 
> If world's biggest companies are being headed by Indians then it proves two things.
> 1. World find Indians capable of doing so.
> 2. Such capable individuals will share their experience and knowledge to guide India to a brighter future.
> 
> Of course you cannot see any of the above intangible benefits which one reaps in future.
> 
> End of the day, products will be made by countries having cheap and skilled labour and Services will be provided by countries having more elite educated citizens
> 
> Thanks anyway for sharing your knowledge of economics with us.


thank you Mr Obvious for pointing out the obvious.


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## Great Sachin

Foo_Fighter said:


> CPEC for Pakistan is as good AS Modi for India. Now beat it!!


found one pakistani in PDF who believes that Modi is game changer for india


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## khanmubashir

Laozi said:


> Well, someone is really worried and trying to pretend confident
> 
> If CPEC fails then relations between Pakistan and China will sour and it will make Pakistan a weaker state and might lead to her disintegration which might trouble India in short term.
> 
> If CPEC succeeds then Pakistan will have to become a modern state with no scope for religious fanatism and a progressive economic country, which is in fact a blessing for India in longer run.
> 
> Lets see whether Pakistanis will succeed in saving CPEC or Mullah ruled state in future


Out support of Kashmir freedom struggle is out of pure secular Geo strategic issues relgion does help 



khanmubashir said:


> Out support of Kashmir freedom struggle is out of pure secular Geo strategic issues relgion does help fyi there is no gurantee that





Laozi said:


> Well, someone is really worried and trying to pretend confident
> 
> If CPEC fails then relations between Pakistan and China will sour and it will make Pakistan a weaker state and might lead to her disintegration which might trouble India in short term.
> 
> If CPEC succeeds then Pakistan will have to become a modern state with no scope for religious fanatism and a progressive economic country, which is in fact a blessing for India in longer run.
> 
> Lets see whether Pakistanis will succeed in saving CPEC or Mullah ruled state in future


Disentigration of Pak is not possible if west Pak didn't disentigrate during 71 then not much possibility now bng was due to it's unique geographic isolation and resultant political cultural differences from rest of Pak so that would just be wet dream of hindutva trolls
Btw it's not a compulsion that economic development and secularism must correlate look at Saudi Arabia and modern turkey
And even so our opposition to India is due to Kashmir issue and Even secular states wouldn't forsake there territorial claims


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## SabzShaheen

Laozi said:


> Good to know that Vedas and Hinduism also believe in oneness of God. Same as yours


These are religions that came about due to the corruption what was revealed in the past


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## Laozi

khanmubashir said:


> Disentigration of Pak is not possible



Russia has disintegrated. even India may disintegrate if her economy is in shambles.



khanmubashir said:


> Btw it's not a compulsion that economic development and secularism must correlate



don't confuse secularlism with religious fanatism. Pakistan was doing fine before Zia's era.



khanmubashir said:


> And even so our opposition to India is due to Kashmir issue and Even secular states wouldn't forsake there territorial claims



Relax ! China will decide your foreign policy in near future

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

This is albatros , for those who don't know and it seems it is a bird which is flying high in sky

Look at that Beastly gaze, it can mess you up specially if you are troublemaker





And it is big and powerful





confident creature at sea fearless

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## khanmubashir

Laozi said:


> Russia has disintegrated. even India may disintegrate if her economy is in shambles.
> 
> 
> don't confuse secularlism with religious fanatism. Pakistan was doing fine before Zia's era.
> 
> 
> 
> Relax ! China will decide your foreign policy in near future


In cold war when we took huge aid from USA we still established relationship with Chinese because it was in our interest in Afghanistan we went against USA because it was in our interest we rejected Saudi demand to join Yemen because it wasn't in our interest so it is nothing but your Rundi Rona that Chinese will control our foreign policy if USA could not no one can 
India is multi ethnic society there can only coalition gv there with states under such regional parties whixh have zero seats in other but in Pak majority of seats r taken by national level parties and regional parties have limited vote bank in any Pak province
Big issue between east and west Pak was this bng awami league had near zero political capital in West pak and vice versa for our mulsim league and ppp Russia didn't disentigrate but soviet union did again a union of diverse cultures each governed with separate Communist regime with no holding in other

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## Sergi

BATMAN said:


> Our politicians only understand the language of money.
> Now tell Ajit Devil to pay double and buy them back, there's no other solution.


Well if you think India is the only party that wants CPEC to go boom boom then you are highly mistaken.


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## Foo_Fighter

Great Sachin said:


> found one Pakistani in PDF who believes that Modi is game changer for India



Sir, I am not a Pakistani, but an Indian who grew up in the UK and currently in India.

Modi has been a very good as a PM (probably the best in par or exceeding Lal Bahadur Shastri and Shri Vajpayee). Currently, am residing in Ahmedabad and have seen and felt his work. I believe CPEC could bring the same results for Pakistan what Modi is bringing for India (different magnitude and scale of course), however, they need to work harder and Ethically for it which I believe is difficult without a great leader like Modi.


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## raahaat7

BHarwana said:


> lol. USA got free air base in Pakistan until they attacked a post on Pak afghan border at least China is Paying. Now question about China in Pakistan is that the local Pakistanis think China as of brothers and not foreigners. Pakistanis have no problem with China. Now China is paying for the port but if China would have asked a free access to the port trust me Pakistan would have given that. Pakistanis love Chinese and they love Pakistan. Pak-China friendship is not based on mutual issues but rather it is on a cultural and traditional relation that dates back to the times of original silk road route. China has helped Pakistan on many occasions at it's personal cost. Now lets make it simple this is a military alliance and friendship of cultures.


Great post. If it was not for china, we would already be seing at least 2 more pakistans on the map. It is because of china that pakistan is a nuclear and military power.

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## Kaleem.61

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> This is albatros , for those who don't know and it seems it is a bird which is flying high in sky
> 
> Look at that Beastly gaze, it can mess you up specially if you are troublemaker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is big and powerful
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> confident creature at sea fearless


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I failed to see the negative connotation in story

Pakistan is on way to become Energy Independent

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## Realtalk108

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1156466701589983232


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