# INS Arihant : Updates & Discussion



## R.A.W.



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## Ruag

*Arihant to be armed with ballistic missiles*



> The man steering Indias highly classified nuclear-powered submarine programme has acknowledged for the first time that the warship will be armed with ballistic missiles.
> 
> Vice-Admiral D.P.S. Varma (retd), Director General, Advanced Technology Vehicle (ATV) project, told HT at DEFEXPO-2010, The K-15 submarine-launched ballistic missiles jolly well be there on INS Arihant when it is inducted into the Navy. The N-sub should hopefully be with the Navy by the end of 2011.
> 
> *The K-15 missile, a closely guarded DRDO secret, is capable of delivering a nuclear warhead up to 700 km. With 12 ballistic missiles in its arsenal, the Arihant will complete the sea-leg of Indias nuclear triad and give it enduring nuclear strike and counter-strike capabilities. *India can carry out nuclear strikes with fighter planes and land-launched missiles.
> 
> Asked how work on Arihant was shaping up, Varma said, We are on track. But the proof of the pudding lies in the eating. So we will know when the Navy inducts it.
> 
> The usually tight-lipped Varma said *Indias submarine fleet should have five to six nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines*. *He said plans were afoot to build two more nuclear-powered submarines to reinforce Indias strategic deterrent force at sea.* He said, We have to cross a certain milestone before going into specifics.
> 
> *Larsen & Toubro, which built the hull for Arihant, has fabricated the hulls for the new N-subs. *The United States, Russia, the UK, France and China are the only countries that can deliver nuclear warheads from a submarine.



Arihant to be armed with ballistic missiles- Hindustan Times

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## gowthamraj

6 ballastic submarines is useless. .. its better to make last 3 would be an attack submarines


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## xman

gowthamraj said:


> 6 ballastic submarines is useless. .. its better to make last 3 would be an attack submarines



I think they will serve both purposes.


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## DMLA

It would be sensible to cap the arihant class at "3" boats and then concentrate on larger SSBN with 8-16 tubes and also longer ranged (agni3/5) submarine launched BM's. There were reports when arihant was launched that IN is looking for 4-5 nuclear attack submarines as well. Equipped with cruise missiles (anti ship/ land attack), they would be deadly for any enemy task force in IOR. 

However, I don't expect this to happen anytime soon. IMO, atleast 15-20 more years to get 3-4 SSBN's and 4-5 SSN's in indian navy! Navy plans to use leased ssn's till then!


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## vinaash

Ruag said:


> *Arihant to be armed with ballistic missiles*
> 
> 
> 
> Arihant to be armed with ballistic missiles- Hindustan Times
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------



*well K-15 OR SHAURYA IS NOT A BALLISTIC MISSILE its much deadlier.
*
By Ajai Shukla
Defexpo 2010, New Delhi

The country&#8217;s top defence scientist has, for the first time, revealed that India&#8217;s new Shaurya missile, which can carry a one-ton nuclear warhead over a distance of 750 kilometers, is specially designed to be fired from Indian submarines, and could form the crucial third leg of India&#8217;s nuclear deterrent.

If launched from a submarine off the China coast, it is capable of reaching many of China&#8217;s major cities, including Beijing, Nanjing and Shanghai.

Air and land-based nuclear weapons are delivered to their targets by fighter aircraft and ballistic missiles respectively. Since these can be knocked out by an enemy first strike, the most reliable nuclear deterrent has traditionally been underwater, missiles hidden in a submarine.

Dr VK Saraswat, the DRDO chief and Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister, revealed to Business Standard at the ongoing Defexpo 2010, &#8220;We have designed the Shaurya so that it can be launched from under water as easily as from land. The gas-filled canister that houses the missile fits easily into a submarine. The underwater leg of the nuclear triad needs to be totally reliable and needs a state-of-the-art missile.&#8221;

India&#8217;s undersea deterrent has so far revolved around the K-15 ballistic missile, built with significant help from Russia. The K-15 was to equip the INS Arihant, India&#8217;s lone nuclear-powered submarine, which is being constructed in Visakhapatnam. But now, after rigorous underwater testing, the Shaurya could be the mainstay of Arihant&#8217;s arsenal.

&#8220;The Shaurya was developed from ground up as a submarine-capable missile&#8221;, confirms Dr Prahlada, the top DRDO scientist responsible for liaising with the military. &#8220;Every piece of technology for fitting it in a submarine is already in place.&#8221;

*Shortly before the Defexpo 2010, Dr Saraswat had publicly stated that India&#8217;s missile technology was ahead of China&#8217;s and Pakistan&#8217;s.*

*Now top DRDO scientists have revealed that the Shaurya is not a ballistic missile, as it has been thought to be; it is actually a hypersonic cruise missile, which never leaves the atmosphere.* A ballistic missile is like a stone being lobbed towards a target. Rockets toss it upwards and towards the target; after the rocket burns out, gravity pulls the missile warhead down towards the target. Buffeted by wind and re-entry forces, accuracy is a problem; and, since the ballistic missile&#8217;s path is predictable, shooting it down is relatively easy.

The Shaurya has none of these issues. Its solid-fuel, two-stage rocket accelerates the missile to six times the speed of sound before it reaches an altitude of 40 kilometers (125,000 feet), after which it levels out and cruises towards the target, powered by its onboard fuel. While ballistic missiles cannot correct their course midway, the Shaurya is an intelligent missile. Onboard navigation computers kick in near the target, guiding the missile to the target and eliminating errors that inevitably creep in during its turbulent journey.

The Shaurya, say DRDO sources, will strike within 20-30 metres of its target after travelling 750 kilometres.

Conventional cruise missiles, like the American Tomahawk and the Indo-Russian Brahmos, offer similar accuracy. But their air-breathing engines carry them along slowly, rendering them vulnerable to enemy aircraft and missiles. The Shaurya&#8217;s solid-fuel, air-independent engine propels it along at hypersonic speeds, leaving enemy fighters and missiles far behind.

&#8220;I would say the Shaurya a hybrid propulsion missile&#8221;, says Dr Saraswat. &#8220;Like a ballistic missile, it is powered by solid fuel. And, like a cruise missile, it can guide itself right up to the target.&#8221;

Making the Shaurya even more capable is its ability to manoeuvre, following a twisting path to the target that makes it very difficult to shoot it down. In contrast, a ballistic missile is predictable; its trajectory gives away its target and its path to it.

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## gowthamraj

vinaash said:


> *well K-15 OR SHAURYA IS NOT A BALLISTIC MISSILE its much deadlier.
> *
> By Ajai Shukla
> Defexpo 2010, New Delhi
> 
> The country&#8217;s top defence scientist has, for the first time, revealed that India&#8217;s new Shaurya missile, which can carry a one-ton nuclear warhead over a distance of 750 kilometers, is specially designed to be fired from Indian submarines, and could form the crucial third leg of India&#8217;s nuclear deterrent.
> 
> If launched from a submarine off the China coast, it is capable of reaching many of China&#8217;s major cities, including Beijing, Nanjing and Shanghai.
> 
> Air and land-based nuclear weapons are delivered to their targets by fighter aircraft and ballistic missiles respectively. Since these can be knocked out by an enemy first strike, the most reliable nuclear deterrent has traditionally been underwater, missiles hidden in a submarine.
> 
> Dr VK Saraswat, the DRDO chief and Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister, revealed to Business Standard at the ongoing Defexpo 2010, &#8220;We have designed the Shaurya so that it can be launched from under water as easily as from land. The gas-filled canister that houses the missile fits easily into a submarine. The underwater leg of the nuclear triad needs to be totally reliable and needs a state-of-the-art missile.&#8221;
> 
> India&#8217;s undersea deterrent has so far revolved around the K-15 ballistic missile, built with significant help from Russia. The K-15 was to equip the INS Arihant, India&#8217;s lone nuclear-powered submarine, which is being constructed in Visakhapatnam. But now, after rigorous underwater testing, the Shaurya could be the mainstay of Arihant&#8217;s arsenal.
> 
> &#8220;The Shaurya was developed from ground up as a submarine-capable missile&#8221;, confirms Dr Prahlada, the top DRDO scientist responsible for liaising with the military. &#8220;Every piece of technology for fitting it in a submarine is already in place.&#8221;
> 
> *Shortly before the Defexpo 2010, Dr Saraswat had publicly stated that India&#8217;s missile technology was ahead of China&#8217;s and Pakistan&#8217;s.*
> 
> *Now top DRDO scientists have revealed that the Shaurya is not a ballistic missile, as it has been thought to be; it is actually a hypersonic cruise missile, which never leaves the atmosphere.* A ballistic missile is like a stone being lobbed towards a target. Rockets toss it upwards and towards the target; after the rocket burns out, gravity pulls the missile warhead down towards the target. Buffeted by wind and re-entry forces, accuracy is a problem; and, since the ballistic missile&#8217;s path is predictable, shooting it down is relatively easy.
> 
> The Shaurya has none of these issues. Its solid-fuel, two-stage rocket accelerates the missile to six times the speed of sound before it reaches an altitude of 40 kilometers (125,000 feet), after which it levels out and cruises towards the target, powered by its onboard fuel. While ballistic missiles cannot correct their course midway, the Shaurya is an intelligent missile. Onboard navigation computers kick in near the target, guiding the missile to the target and eliminating errors that inevitably creep in during its turbulent journey.
> 
> The Shaurya, say DRDO sources, will strike within 20-30 metres of its target after travelling 750 kilometres.
> 
> Conventional cruise missiles, like the American Tomahawk and the Indo-Russian Brahmos, offer similar accuracy. But their air-breathing engines carry them along slowly, rendering them vulnerable to enemy aircraft and missiles. The Shaurya&#8217;s solid-fuel, air-independent engine propels it along at hypersonic speeds, leaving enemy fighters and missiles far behind.
> 
> &#8220;I would say the Shaurya a hybrid propulsion missile&#8221;, says Dr Saraswat. &#8220;Like a ballistic missile, it is powered by solid fuel. And, like a cruise missile, it can guide itself right up to the target.&#8221;
> 
> Making the Shaurya even more capable is its ability to manoeuvre, following a twisting path to the target that makes it very difficult to shoot it down. In contrast, a ballistic missile is predictable; its trajectory gives away its target and its path to it.



now any country which want first strike on our country now feel uncomportable


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## ek_indian

Only thing I can think of.....N-trioka is on the way. :sheers:


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## Trichy

^^^^^^ great news i heard a hybrid missile...

go and rock India, Jai Ho!!!

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## Veer

gowthamraj said:


> 6 ballastic submarines is useless. .. its better to make last 3 would be an attack submarines



3 will be SSBN and the 3 will be SSN to escort them. As government has approves the SSN project. But the all of 6 will small size like that of Arihant.


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## cosmos

that technology is ahead of everyone else. I don't think other countries has fielded a hypersonic cruise missile yet. lol. India is awesome!

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## jha

here you go-- *arihant*

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## Speeder

ballistic missiles? in INS Arihant? 

They only need to send 80% of Indian members here on board to 

INS Arihant,then it WILL become ballistic, and bullistic too, even without 

trials !


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## jagjitnatt

Speeder said:


> ballistic missiles? in INS Arihant?
> 
> They only need to send 80% of Indian members here on board to
> 
> INS Arihant,then it WILL become ballistic, and bullistic too, even without
> 
> trials !



Ahh! I was just waiting for someone like you to troll and spoil the party. Seriously how much do they pay you to do this?

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## yuba

jagjitnatt said:


> Ahh! I was just waiting for someone like you to troll and spoil the party. Seriously how much do they pay you to do this?



brother i was thinking the same thing and was that joke meant to be funny

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## jagjitnatt

yuba said:


> brother i was thinking the same thing and was that joke meant to be funny



 

I think now its a little funnier.


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## jha

hahahahahaha

frustration building up...


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## DMLA

Coming back to the topic, I feel they are too short legged to be called "credible". The choke points which the indian subs would face while trying to get close to chinese cities make it imperative that we develop long ranged (atleast 6000 km) SLBM's and put atleast 8-10 on future SSBN's


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## jha

this is just an operational "technology demonstrator"...which is in all means capable of doing its job...the next ones will be bigger hence no. of SLBMs will definitely increase..as per the range , well thats in the hands of DRDO, how soon they announce it..

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## saurabh

jagjitnatt said:


> Ahh! I was just waiting for someone like you to troll and spoil the party. Seriously how much do they pay you to do this?



I expected more than this from a member like you...



> One hate comment can start a whole war of words. I just can't find a reason to bash each other. I don't understand why one opens a thread just to insult another country and not a distant country but our own neighbor and our brothers.





> What is hatred gonna give back? Nothing except more hatred.





> Anyways, at the end of day I am just one guy wanting some peace and don't wanna destroy this great forum with personal hate and rubbish threads.



Just ignore the trollers, why ruin a thread for them??


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## saurabh

What will be the benefits of fitting k-15 over shaurya? Shaurya is cruise missile with a greater range. It seems better.


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## manish123

Re: INS Arihant being armed with ballistic missiles
yes when my great grandson is 100 yrs old


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## Ruag

First nuke-sub undergoes trial



> Indias first nuclear submarine, INS Arihant, has gone to the high-seas for an extended trial, indicating that the boomer is on course to be inducted by the Navy by 2011.
> 
> One of Indias top secret defence projects for over three decades, INS Arihant with a 80 Mwe nuclear reactor at its core, was launched in the water in last July. The sea trial, which began a few months ago, will be carried out for more than a year in different conditions to test the endurance and performance of the nuclear submarine, which is capable of staying under water for months, sources told Deccan Herald.
> 
> Once inducted, INS Arihant will be the third leg of the nuclear triad enabling India to have retaliatory second strike capability from the sea. At the defence research and development organisations annual awards function attended by Defence Minister A K Antony, DRDO chief V K Saraswat mentioned INS Arihant as a significant technology achievement.
> 
> For obvious reasons Saraswat, did not mention anything about the two other nuclear submarines, which DRDO is constructing at the moment.
> 
> The hull of the second boomer is under construction at an L&T facility in Gujarat. The Visakhapatnam shipyard was recently brought under the defence ministry to secretly carry out the construction activities.



First nuke-sub undergoes trial

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INS Arihant is successfully undergoing trials while L&T has already commenced the construction of the hull of the second nuclear sub.

 fellow countrymen.

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## Chanakyaa

*



with a 80 Mwe nuclear reactor at its core

Click to expand...

*
Or Without ?


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## sivadreams

XiNiX said:


> Or Without ?



Is there a real basis for this doubt? except for some anti-India ranting articles from across the border.


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## Chanakyaa

sivadreams said:


> Is there a real basis for this doubt? except for some anti-India ranting articles from across the border.



Perhaps u may not have heard this reality bite :



> ndia's Nuclear Sub Doesn't Have Working Reactor Yet
> by K.S. Jayaraman
> 
> India's nuclear submarine INS Arihant, launched on July 26, does not have a "working nuclear reactor" yet, says a nuclear scientist familiar with the project almost since its start.
> 
> "If any of you are under the impression that it made contact with *water with an actual reactor fitted inside its hull you are mistaken*," the scientist told IANS.
> 
> The scientist echoes a report in Defense Professionals Daily, a German online publication, which says Arihant "currently is little more than a floating hull" *without nuclear propulsion or weapons systems*. The scientist, who did not want to be named as he was not authorized to speak to the media, was clarifying media reports implying that Arihant is propelled by nuclear power and that India has become the sixth nation to operate nuclear subs.
> 
> "I think the media did not correctly report what was told to them by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC), or the officials deliberately did not want to be explicit beyond a point," he said.
> *The reports had said that Arihant is fitted with a nuclear power plant that is a replica of the secretly built 80-MW reactor at Kalpakkam near Chennai that was shown to the media Aug 2. *



The Product u r referring was a "supported" initiative by GoV of India and more of a student project of engineering students blessed by a company and ministry of education, but never intended for a commercial approach.

This iPad Killer has working prototype and its 100% corporate product.


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## zeus

Just because core didn't go critical at the time of launch doesn't mean it doesn't have a nuke core ,it went critical only in jan and now the sea trials have begun ,and then weapons trial and then the induction


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## jagjitnatt

No doubt it is gonna have a nuclear reactor. When the ship is built in the dry dock, weapons and reactors are not mounted onto it. The dock just builds up the hull and the electricals. 

The rest are added later at an army facility.


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## lockh33d

Arihant is fail, seems like another Tejas project is coming our way... Sigh*


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## faithfulguy

lockh33d said:


> Arihant is fail, seems like another Tejas project is coming our way... Sigh*



Even if it failed, as Thomas Edison said, at least the scientist have learned from the failure. Maybe India should start out with a conventional sub instead of go directly to a nuclear sub.

And I just noticed that you have the quote.

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## jagjitnatt

lockh33d said:


> Arihant is fail, seems like another Tejas project is coming our way... Sigh*



and what makes you think so?


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## faithfulguy

jagjitnatt said:


> and what makes you think so?



To me, the configuration of the sub appears to be like a test platform than an actual SSBN. I don't think this is a series production but more like one of a kind.


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## Chanakyaa

Guys dont feed the trolls.

btw, any source on the 'reactor going critical' ?

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## gowthamraj

lockh33d said:


> Arihant is fail, seems like another Tejas project is coming our way... Sigh*



for ur kind information tejas already goes to serial production and our ministery declares it as success


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## manish123

We should have had 20 arihants armed with ballistic missiles so that evil eye of enemy can be taken out in a second.


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## gowthamraj

goverment will soon give order for another 3 arihants


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## Laughing Buddha

*After Arihant; What?*

The launch of the S-2 is, no doubt, a most significant and encouraging demonstration of India's technological skills and managerial expertise. But much more than that, this vessel will provide a trials platform which will enable us to learn from our own experience, what no one is going to teach us; the arcane disciplines of SSBN operations and maintenance. The main beneficiaries of this experience will be two submarines which follow S-2. The S-3 and S-4 are planned to be built on the same baseline design as S-2, in order to consolidate shipbuilding expertise and industrial capabilities. They will therefore incorporate only those capability enhancements which can be accommodated within the same hull-form and supported by the same nuclear power-plant. Therefore it is the fourth submarine in this series the S-5, still a few years ahead, which should be an object of sharp focus for not just the IN but even more so, the DAE and DRDO. In a 50-60 year perspective, India should be looking at a standing force of 4-6 SSBNs; accompanied, if possible by a smaller force of nuclear attack submarines or SSNs. While we are well on the way to achieving mastery over many of the technologies involved, there are three key areas which would need special focus: The acquisition of propellant technology for producing underwater launched ballistic missiles of inter-continental range. The length and diameter of the missile will decide the dimensions of the SSBN. These SLBM's should preferably be capable of carrying 4-6 multiple independently-targetable re-entry vehicles (MIRV).

The indigenous design of a SSBN hull which will be able to accommodate a battery of 16-24 such SLBMs. The indigenous design of a nuclear propulsion plants of about 200 megawatt capacity, with a 6-8 years refueling cycle, to drive a SSBN of 10,000-12,000 tons at about 30 knots.

Having committed ourselves to fielding a credible deterrent in the form of a nuclear triad, we no longer have a choice but to go down this route at the earliest. This is one area where dependence on foreign sources, especially for hardware, must be minimised and autarchy aimed for. Once we acquire indigenous capability for design and production of naval reactors and LEU cores, as well as long range SLBMs, we would have achieved such autarchy.

*Future Project Management*

The PLA Navy sent its first (Han class) nuclear submarine to sea in 1974, and today the Chinese nuclear flotilla consists of 3-4 Xia and Jin class SSBNs as well as 5-6 Han and Shang class SSNs. Given that we are already 30 years behind China in this field, there is not a day to be lost in committing the necessary capital as well as human resources from the Navy, DAE and DRDO to commence design and development work.

This is going to be a complex, laborious and time consuming endeavour, and a period of even 10-15 years for attaining the capabilities listed above may be optimistic. So far, Russia has remained the main source of technology for us, but in the changing circumstances, we must not shy away from seeking advanced reactor technology from the US or France for our strategic programmes. There is no doubt that the DRDO-Navy synergy worked well during the developmental phase of the ATV. With the launch of S-2, this project now needs to transition rapidly and seamlessly from R&D mode to serial production mode. The time has therefore come to create a new management structure in which all the national capabilities created for the ATV (in the public as well as private sectors) can be brought under an umbrella corporation for serial production of nuclear submarines for the IN. Lifting the pall of secrecy will promote a better dialogue with operators and lead to design improvements.

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## Dark Angel

lockh33d said:


> Arihant is fail, seems like another Tejas project is coming our way... Sigh*






*PLEASE DONT READ THESE TROLLS WITH THE FLAGS THEY BEAR REGARDLESS OF ANYONE*


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## lockh33d

faithfulguy said:


> Even if it failed, as Thomas Edison said, at least the scientist have learned from the failure. Maybe India should start out with a conventional sub instead of go directly to a nuclear sub.
> 
> And I just noticed that you have the quote.



Yup, and they can produce it another 699 times before they strike gold, which will definitely take them into the next millennium.


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## lockh33d

gowthamraj said:


> for ur kind information tejas already goes to serial production and our ministery declares it as success



Yes, yes, please believe the hype, it's true!


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## IMADreamer

faithfulguy said:


> *To me, the configuration of the sub appears to be like a test platform* than an actual SSBN. I don't think this is a series production but more like one of a kind.



May i know what is your technical qualification with respect to nuclear Submarines??


don't take it personally i just want to know as you always gives us your valuable informative expert comment in every thread.
i was just just asking so that we can know and can get that degree so that we can develop our most advance Submarine.

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## jha

^^^^^ hahahahahaha


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## Arik

lockh33d said:


> Yup, and they can produce it another 699 times before they strike gold, which will definitely take them into the next millennium.



The US had lost the USS Thresher along with all its 129 crew members during a deep diving test.Another submarine the USS scorpion was lost with 98 crew members and two nuclear warheads.


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## faithfulguy

Arik said:


> The US had lost the USS Thresher along with all its 129 crew members during a deep diving test.Another submarine the USS scorpion was lost with 98 crew members and two nuclear warheads.



US, Russia and China all lost nuclear subs. So that comes with learning. Hopefully, Indian sailors won't lost their life in any accidents.

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## jha

^^^ this is much better reply than what some posters give....Thank you


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## faithfulguy

IMADreamer said:


> May i know what is your technical qualification with respect to nuclear Submarines??
> 
> 
> don't take it personally i just want to know as you always gives us your valuable informative expert comment in every thread.
> i was just just asking so that we can know and can get that degree so that we can develop our most advance Submarine.



Check out the Ohio class nuclear sub. That is a real nuclear sub.


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## jha

what is the need to compare....this is the first baby step....hope we will start running pretty fast...


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## unicorn148

this sub was developed so we can learn how to build then this is the first time we have built a sub on our own design so we are learning and it takes time to master anything and the day we master it we will come out with what you say a real nuclear sub and that is not too far


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## Chanakyaa

*
INS ARIHANT : The Complete Discussion*​
*INS Arihant Needs no Introduction. Yet I dedicate this Thread which will aim at all miniscule points that can be discussed and users would get complete info of this marvellous Indian Achievement.

Welcome To INS Arihant !*

*
Okey so Whats the Fuss About INS Arihant??*







> The Indian Navy leased a Project 670A Skat (Charlie I Class) nuclear-powered submarine (INS Chakra in Indian Naval service) for three years - from 04 January 1988 to January 1991. The boat was was manned by a Russian crew who also had the task of training Indian submariners on how to operate the nuclear-powered vessel.
> 
> In addition to becoming a training ground, INS Chakra also acted as a design laboratory for developing and testing indigenous nuclear submarine technologies. The lease was not extended after January 1991 and the submarine was returned back to Vladivostock, Russia where it was decommissioned from Russian naval service.
> 
> The Russian crew that trained the Indian submariners have reportedly taken key posts, probably in the Indian Naval Design Organisation, to design India's first nuclear-powered submarine codenamed the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV).
> 
> This top secret project has facilities in New Delhi, at Visakhapatnam and Hyderabad in Andhra Pradesh and at Kalpakkam in Tamil Nadu. The plan is for a class of five submarines fitted with long-range, nuclear-tipped missiles. A nuclear-capable missile (Sagarika) is reportedly under development at the Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) at Bangalore, Karnataka.
> 
> The naval wing of DRDO (Defence Research & Development Organisation) manages the organization and since 1985 has always had a retired Vice Admiral in charge. Vice Admiral Bharat Bhushan is the first known Director General of the program. In late 2000, the project was given a new lease of life with the appointment of Vice Admiral R.N. Ganesh (Retd) to take charge. An experienced submariner, he was the first commander of INS Chakra. In early 2004, Vice Admiral P.C. Bhasin (Retd) was appointed as the head of the ATV program, as he was the former Chief of Material. As per a news article in domain-B, dated 19 May 2007, Vice Admiral Arun Kumar Singh (Retd) is to be appointed as the new Director General (DG) of the highly-classified ATV program.
> 
> He too had commanded INS Chakra during her service with the Indian Navy. He also commanded submarine shore establishments, INS Virbahu and INS Satvahana and served as the Director of Submarine Operations. As the Assistant Chief of Naval Staff (Submarines), he authored the Indian Navy's 30 year submarine construction program and was also responsible for the modernisation of the submarine force, primarily the Sindhugosh Class boats.
> 
> Rahul Bedi in a news article in IndiaPRWire, dated 17 May 2007, stated the following;
> 
> &#8226; The vessel will be based on the Charlie I Class boat and will be 124 meters long, have a displacement of 4000 tons and be fitted with a 100 MW nuclear reactor, developed jointly by DAE (Department of Atomic Energy) and DRDO (Defence Research & Development Organisation). Bharat Rakshak Note: Earlier reports indicated that the boat could likely resemble the Russian Navy's new Severodvinsk Class attack submarine and/or the Akula Class attack submarine, of which the Indian Navy reportedly plans to lease a pair.
> 
> &#8226; The 100 MW nuclear reactor went critical in October 2004 at Kalpakkam and is now fully operational. A miniaturised version of the reactor is under construction for integration into the ATV at Visakhapatnam.
> 
> In July 2006, then-incumbent Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee inspected the ATV's reactor project while participating in the 20th anniversary celebrations of the commissioning of the Fast Breeder Test Reactor at the Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research in Kalpakkam. Earlier, in October 2004, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh visited the ATV facility when he launched the construction of the Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor. The Prototype Testing Centre at Kalpakkam will be used to test the boat's turbines & propellers while a similar facility at Visakhapatnam will run trials on the vessel's main turbines & gearbox.
> 
> &#8226; Officials familiar with the ATV project stated that the highly enriched uranium fuel for the reactor was supplied by the Rare Materials Project (RMP) in Ratnahalli near Mysore, Karnataka. The four to five years delay in the reactor reaching criticality, was due to the extended time taken by RMP to produce an adequate quantity of uranium, the officials added. While many components of the reactor like the steam-generator and the control rod mechanism have been indigenously developed within India itself, senior naval officers stated that Russia had helped Indian scientists overcome certain technical hurdles. This included assistance not only in designing the vessel's reactor, but also guidelines in eventually mating it with the boat's hull. The involvement of Larsen & Toubro, that began in 2001, helped kick-start the stalled ATV project. L&T was awarded the contract to build the hull (code named P 4102) at its Hazira dockyard facility in Gujarat and has already floated sections of it on a barge to Visakhapatnam.
> 
> *Note : The Actual Sub Seems to be Based on Akula I design with 80 MW Reactor.*



*So Its a Great Leap for Indian Nuclear Technology as well as Ship Building, Design and Development.
*
*

How Does This Submarine Work and How its Different from a Conventional Submarine ?*






> *A nuclear submarine is a submarine powered by a nuclear reactor.
> *
> The performance advantages of nuclear submarines over "conventional" (typically diesel-electric) submarines are considerable: nuclear propulsion, being completely independent of air, frees the submarine from the need to surface frequently, as is necessary for conventional submarines; the large amount of power generated by a nuclear reactor allows nuclear submarines to operate at high speed for long durations; and the long interval between refuellings grants a range limited only by consumables such as food.
> 
> * Current generations of nuclear submarines never need to be refueled throughout their 25-year lifespans.*
> 
> Conversely, the limited power stored in electric batteries means that even the most advanced conventional submarine can only remain submerged for a few days at slow speed, and only a few hours at top speed; recent advances in air-independent propulsion have eroded this disadvantage somewhat.
> 
> The high cost of nuclear technology means that relatively few states have fielded nuclear submarines.


*
Tha Advantages and Disadvantages of a Nuclear Submarine ::*



> The nuclear plant is smaller and lighter than an equivalent-sized diesel. They don't have to figure out where to put the diesel tank. The boat doesn't have to come to snorkel depth every so often to recharge its batteries--whether the boat is a diesel or a nuc, every modern sub turns its propeller with an electric motor.
> 
> And with nuclear propulsion, where the refueling interval is measured in years, the only thing that limits the length of a mission is the amount of food the boat is able to carry. If they can find somewhere to store a year's worth of food, they can stay out that long.
> 
> *The Arihant with an endurance of over 3 Months is Best suited for Nuclear Second Strike as its Hard to detect This Sub.*
> 
> There are three disadvantages to nuclear propulsion, and two are environmental. The first is the need to deal with the used fuel.
> 
> The other is, if the boat sinks from enemy action or mishap, radiation can possibly enter the atmosphere.
> 
> The third is tactical. Modern nuclear boats cool their reactors by convection--there are water inlets and outlets on the hull, and the movement of the boat causes water to flow through them. (This replaces a water pump, which is noisy.)
> 
> To get the convection system to work, the boat has to be in constant motion. A diesel boat, or a nuc boat with a coolant pump--some Soviet SSNs had them--can settle to the ocean floor under a shipping lane and shoot torpedoes at passing enemy ships; a nuc boat with convection cooling can't do that.



*The Working Of a Nuclear Submarine ::*






> *The main difference between conventional submarines and nuclear submarines is the power generation system. Nuclear submarines employ nuclear reactors for this task.*
> 
> They either generate electricity that powers electric motors connected to the propeller shaft or rely on the reactor heat to produce steam that drives steam turbines (cf. nuclear marine propulsion). Reactors used in submarines typically use highly enriched fuel (often greater than 20&#37 to enable them to deliver a large amount of power from a smaller reactor.
> 
> *The nuclear reactor also supplies power to the submarine's other subsystems, such as for maintenance of air quality, fresh water production by distilling salt water from the ocean, temperature regulation, etc.* All naval nuclear reactors currently in use are operated with diesel generators as a backup power system.
> 
> These engines are able to provide emergency electrical power for reactor decay heat removal as well as enough electric power to supply an emergency propulsion mechanism. Submarines may carry nuclear fuel for up to 30 years of operation. The only resource that limits the time underwater is the food supply for the crew and maintenance of the vessel.






The Conventianl Submarine Has to Surface from Time to Time to Recharge its Batteries.
*
The New AIP ( Air Independent Propulsion Systems ) Like those employed in the German Type 214 is an advanced that can enable the sub to remain under water for over a week.*

*The German Type 212 :: *





*


What are the Capabilities of This Submarine?*






> Class and type: Arihant-class submarine
> 
> Type: SSBN or SSGN
> 
> Length: 111 m (364 ft)
> 
> Beam: 15 m (49 ft)
> 
> Draft: 11 m (36 ft)
> 
> Propulsion: PWR using 40% enriched uranium fuel (80 MWe )[2]; one turbine (47,000 hp/70 MW); one shaft; one 7-bladed, high-skew propeller (estimated)
> 
> Range: unlimited except by food supplies
> 
> Test depth: 300 m (980 ft) (estimated)
> 
> Complement: 95&#8211;100 officers and men
> Sensors and
> 
> processing systems: BEL USHUS
> *
> Armament: *
> 
> 
> 
> *[*]6 x 533mm torpedoes
> [*]12 x K-15 Sagarika SLBM
> [*]Shaurya missile (expected)
> [*] Agni III SL**
> *






*What is the Current Progress ( June 2010 ) ?*



> *
> 
> 'Second indigenous nuke sub will be ready soon'*
> 
> By Ritu Sharma, New Delhi, Aug 18 : India's second indigenous nuclear-powered submarine will be ready soon and will take less time from launch to induction than the first one, says a retired Indian Navy officer who was associated with the top secret project since its inception.
> *
> "The second one will be ready and will take lesser time," Vice Admiral (retd.) Mihir K. Roy told IANS in an exclusive interview.*
> 
> Roy, who is now 84, was the first head of the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) that was launched in 1984 and guided it during its first four years. He has been involved in all the back room negotiations with the then Soviet Union, which assisted in the project. He is now director of think tank Society for Indian Ocean Studies.
> 
> Roy said the disintegration of the Soviet Union in 1991 delayed the ATV project, under which India aimed to initially design and construct three nuclear-powered combat submarines within the country.
> 
> The first vessel, INS Arihant, was launched into the waters July 26. When she is inducted into service after three-years of sea trials, India will became only the sixth country in the world after the US, Russia, Britain, France and China to be capable of designing and constructing nuclear-powered nuclear submarines.
> 
> "We were going fast (on the project). But there was a long delay. Then the USSR fell and there was tremendous social, political and technological changes in the country. All contracts (on the ATV project) were changed," Roy said.
> 
> "In 2004, Russia stabilised and we signed fresh contracts in dollars. Money was a problem for them because they (Russians) were short of dollars," he added.
> 
> The Soviet Union had in 1981 offered to help with the design and construction of a nuclear submarine. In 1988, it had also leased a nuclear submarine, INS Chakra, for five years to enable the Indian Navy, its first batch of officers and sailors, in operating such vessels.
> 
> The ATV project was made successful by the close partnership of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) and other public and private sector undertakings.
> 
> The project was conceptualised around the same time as those to produce an indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) and a main battle tank MBT). Both these projects have suffered heavy cost and time overruns, making the launch of INS Arihant a "historic milestone" for the Indian Navy.
> 
> "I said that I wanted to report directly to the defence minister, with no interference from secretaries and bureaucrats. It worked. Decisions were made across the table," said Roy, a submariner and former chief of the Eastern Naval Command.
> 
> He noted that extra security precautions had to be taken to maintain the secrecy of the project to prevent triggering an arms race on the subcontinent.
> 
> "We did not even have a name plate (outside the office). Nobody in my family, not even my wife, was aware what I was doing. On July 26 (when INS Arihatn was launched) my
> 
> grandchildren said: 'You never told us!' " Roy said.
> 
> *"I got the dry docks (at the Visakhapatnam Ship Building Centre) covered; otherwise satellites would have spotted the vessel and taken pictures," Roy reminisced, adding: "I also got the dry docks lengthened."*


*

The Launch Ceremony ::*






> July 26, 2009, (Sawf News) - During the launch of INS Arihant on Sunday, July 26, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh did not mince words while acknowledging Russia's role in the fruition of the challenging project.
> 
> "I would also like to express our appreciation to our Russian friends for their consistent and invaluable cooperation, which symbolizes the close strategic partnership that we enjoy with Russia."
> 
> India is reported to have acquired design of the Charlie II class nuclear submarines from Russia and the ATV was based on those designs.
> 
> The Arihant is 112m long as compared to 103m Charlie class subs, probably because a section was added in the middle to accommodate its missile tube.
> 
> Its 10m beam is the same size as a Charlie class sub.
> 
> Like the Charlie II subs, Arihant has a single nuclear power plant which gives it a rather limited max underwater speed of 24 kts. Not enough to chase warships or get away from them when it is detected.
> 
> *Though the Arihant is based on the Charlie II class, it likely incorporates a lot of advancements in propulsion, noise suppression, command and control, communication and sonar that the Russians learnt since they built the Charlie II subs, as well as what the Indians learnt while building the HDW boats.*
> 
> Unofficial illustrations of the boat show elements of Akula design like the towed sonar at the aft. However, Arihant is unlikely to be based on the Akula II or the more modern Graney class Russian subs, as reported in some sections of the press, since these subs use a twin hull design and are therefore considerably heavier. Not surprisingly the Akula is powered by a 190 MW reactor.
> 
> A lot of recent speculation in the press has focused on the nuclear propulsion of the Arihant with many analysts saying that the success of the project depended on its reactor reaching criticality. BARC has an excellent track record and the reactor is likely to have been tested before being fitted. Nuclear subs routinely power up and down. There is good reason to believe that problems with the reactor design have long been sorted out.
> 
> Once Arihant's nuclear propulsion is proven the stress will shift to weapon testing.
> 
> The Sagarika's limited range of 700km makes it inadequate even as a deterrent against Pakistan, let alone China.
> 
> There have been misleading press reports that as a vital component of India's credible minimum deterrent strategy, Arihant is designed to lurk in littoral waters of Pakistan and China to fire its very limited range nuclear missiles in case India comes under a nuclear attack. Nothing could be further from the truth.
> 
> It will be years, more likely decades, before the Navy acquires the confidence to send an Arihant class nuclear submarine close to the Chinese or even Pakistani mainland. At the very least the sub would need to repeatedly demonstrate its ability to operate under the sea for months without returning to base.
> 
> Arihant's limited underwater speed of 24 kts makes it incapable of running away from modern warships once detected. Nuclear subs tend to be noisy when operating at max speeds, Arihant will in all probability be very noisy.
> 
> Acoustic and magnetic signatures are unlikely to be priorities with project managers grappling with their first nuclear submarine project.
> *
> As soon as Arihant is deployed on patrol its movement will be tracked by the Americans and possibly by the Chinese.*
> 
> There isn't a boomer armed with nuclear missiles in the open oceans that isn't being tracked by America. Russian boomers that threaten America are essentially those that are lurking under the ice in the Arctic circle or in Russian coastal areas.
> 
> China has operated nuclear submarines for over 25 years now, but none of their submarines have ventured too far away from the Chinese mainland. Their subs are, however, equipped with missiles that can be launched at the US mainland from within Chinese waters.
> 
> The acknowledged range of the Sagarika missile, 700 km, is likely its range with a 500 kg warhead. With a lighter nuclear warhead it could conceivably go as far as 1500 km. Deployed in Indian territorial waters the Arihant can threaten Pakistan but not China.
> 
> Hopefully, DRDO will be ready with the Agni IIISL within a year or two which will give Indian Strategic Command the option to launch counter value nuclear strikes on mainland China from within Indian waters.
> 
> It could well be another 5 years before that capability is reached.
> 
> It could probably be a decade before an Arihant nuclear submarine leaves the Indian ocean.
> 
> *It is likely that followup nuclear subs will accommodate more sections to carry at least 12 launch tubes instead of the four that the sub currently carries. They will need more powerful nuclear power plants to propel their greater weight and achieve speeds in excess of 30 kts.*

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## Chanakyaa

*The Nuclear Reactor of INS Arihant ::*



*
The Actual Submarine ::*












​

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## Chanakyaa

Your Comments are Most Welcome.


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## sudhir007

XiNiX you are rocking again nice to see you again making good thread


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## Chanakyaa

Thanks sudhir....


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## brahmastra

I have a question?
figure says diameter of 'main body' of arihant is 11 meters.
length of Agni-1 is 15 meters and advanced agni versions got more length than agni 1.

that means, we can't fit any of the agni there.


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## satishkumarcsc

brahmastra said:


> I have a question?
> figure says diameter of 'main body' of arihant is 11 meters.
> length of Agni-1 is 15 meters and advanced agni versions got more length than agni 1.
> 
> that means, we can't fit any of the agni there.



Land launched and sub launched missile systems are totally different. You always need to develop a missile specific for submarine launch.


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## Chanakyaa

Look at agni 3 SL its much less in height.


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## brahmastra

XiNiX said:


> Look at agni 3 SL its much less in height.



still its nearly 150% longer than arihant.


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## Bhairava

Some where i checked Arihant can exceed 35 knots


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## praveen007

@ xinix
Thanks thats look so beautiful. again u rocks mate with this pics. tipical feel might serise post.

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## saurabh

brahmastra said:


> I have a question?
> figure says diameter of 'main body' of arihant is 11 meters.
> length of Agni-1 is 15 meters and advanced agni versions got more length than agni 1.
> 
> that means, we can't fit any of the agni there.



Can the missile be placed in a tilted position?


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## keyboard

saurabh said:


> Can the missile be placed in a tilted position?





Sorry but i cant resist myself


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## Chanakyaa

Yes... Typhoon class has it that way.


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## Chanakyaa

praveen007 said:


> @ xinix
> Thanks thats look so beautiful. again u rocks mate with this pics. tipical feel might serise post.



Your Words Tell me To do More...
Thanks for the Support...


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## praveen007

Thats what we would expect fron u. that what u should do.


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## faithfulguy

XiNiX said:


> Yes... Typhoon class has it that way.



Typhoon class SLBMs is placed in a tilted position?


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## johnny boy

Speeder said:


> ballistic missiles? in INS Arihant?
> 
> They only need to send 80% of Indian members here on board to
> 
> INS Arihant,then it WILL become ballistic, and bullistic too, even without
> 
> trials !



ahhhhhhhhhh the beatiful troll!!!!!!!


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## Chanakyaa

faithfulguy said:


> Typhoon class SLBMs is placed in a tilted position?



Yes.. I think so.

In one Critical Review of the Movie " The Hunt for Red October " which showed an Advanced "Typhoon Classs" Sub it was told that the Missile Bay shown (when Jack Tyan Chases the Cook , near Climax ) is Vertical Like US' Ships Which is NOT the way its actually there in Typhoon aka Akula ( Russian Categorization ).

However, let me do some reading , hope i get some concrete info.


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## Kinetic

saurabh said:


> Can the missile be placed in a tilted position?



Our Kilo class submarines armed with Club-S missile are in horizontal position that can be launched from torpedo tubes. But ballistic missile like Agni-3SL requires vertical launching systems because they are heavy and if the propulsion turned on it will generate huge power which will push them forward. So its better for heavy SLBM to have vertical launching system.


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## faithfulguy

After reading more about Arihant. The equivalent of US version of Arihand is USS Halibut built in 1959.. India is about 50 years behind the US in submarine technology


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## jbond197

faithfulguy said:


> After reading more about Arihant. The equivalent of US version of Arihand is USS Halibut built in 1959.. India is about 50 years behind the US in submarine technology



Let me ask the same question my friend had asked you before. What is your qualification with respect to Nuclear submaries? Please answer it this time, don't avoid the question asked. since u r so interested in Indian defence aquisitions and whats been developed so I think u will be really happy to share ur secret. Waiting to hear your expert advise...


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## gowthamraj

^ you are wrong. but only 6 countries have this technology
In our earth . And sonars and missiles or reactor are not 50 years but 15 to 20 years behind of yours


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## faithfulguy

jbond.. what are your qulifications to criticize my comments? If you do not like what I say, then come up with a response. Your childish attacks against me just show your immaturity. If you have not way of responding to my statement, you can keep quiet and stop making a fool our of yourself.


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## faithfulguy

gowthamraj said:


> ^ you are wrong. but only 6 countries have this technology
> In our earth . And sonars and missiles or reactor are not 50 years but 15 to 20 years behind of yours



15-20 years behind the US. 15 years ago, the US had started inducting Ohio class subs. Are you saying that arihant is equivalent of an earlier Ohio class nuclear subs.


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## faithfulguy

What India need is an equivalent of Polaris A1 missiles and James Madison class nuclear subs. Arihant doesn't carry anything equivalent to a Polaris missiles. India also need to build its first George Washinton Class submarine. A real SLBM submarine carrying 12-16 missiles. As far as I see, Arihant only carry 4 missiles. In my estimation, this should be a test bed platform as no other P5 deploy anything that carrying only 4 missiles


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## gowthamraj

Look i did't mention all systems, btw it very tuf to estimate how many years behind us subs, may be some parts like sensors may pair with counter part. So i said roughly 15 to 20 years old 




Btw by your logic 1960 ships have not modern displays and sensors like nowadays . So it is non sense to compare to both


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## Chanakyaa

faithfulguy said:


> After reading more about Arihant. The equivalent of US version of Arihand is USS Halibut built in 1959.. India is about 50 years behind the US in submarine technology .



*Firstly,*

*You should Read Even More and Be Very Sure of your Info...Before Saying Something about a Machine that is Yet Behind the Doors and Mere speculations are made for the same ( That Applies to the "Sources where you read" more and more about Arihant.. regarding its Desgn, Weapons etc. )*
*
YOU NEED TO IMPROVE ON DEDUCTION AND READING SKILLs .. Let me tell You WHY ..*

*#1. Indian Agencies Have NOT made any Public Announcement about the specs of the Boat , We dont know the reactor specs, the sonar specs, etc. etc. *

If i say JXX is 50 Years behind PAKFA .... a sound Mind will certinaly Say... _"You Need the Specs of Both Machines in Hand to Make a Suitable Comparision. How can You say JXX is 100 Years or 1000 Years Behind when u downt even know about the specs of a single bolt of that machine ! "_
*
How Can u Compare Arihant to Ohio or Any Subamrine Class when u Know NOTING about it ?*

*
#2. More Over, You Missed To Read THIS ::*



> July 31, 2009, (Sawf News) - *Outgoing Russian ambassador, Vyacheslav Trubnikov, says India's recently launched nuclear powered submarine &#8211; INS Arihant &#8211; is an Akula class submarine.*
> 
> In an interview published in the Business Standard Trubinikov is quoted as saying:
> 
> "I watched the launch of India's first nuclear submarine at Vishakapatnam on July 26, and do you know about the design of this submarine? It is the Akula."
> 
> *"So where was the Indian submarine designed and built?" he was asked.
> 
> "Here in India!" he responded.*
> 
> Past analysis - based on the dimensions (112 m length, 10 m beam), displacement (6,000 tons) and reactor output (85 MWe) of Arihant &#8211; have led analysts to report that it is based on the Charlie II submarine that India leased from 1988-91.





> *Name: Akula*
> Operators: Soviet Navy Ensign Soviet Navy
> Russian Navy Ensign Russian Navy
> Preceded by: Sierra class
> Succeeded by: Graney class, Severodvinsk Class (in development)
> In service: 1986



So Mate, If Its an Akula its The Most Sophisticated SSN , *In Operation Since 1985* , Outside US on Par with the Los Angeles Class.

*You Will Agree that a Russian Ambassador Knows Far More Than You and Me about India and Her Relations, Which have Led to the Succes of Arihant.

This Also Breaks Your Myth That Arihant is 50 Years Behind in Technology. 

Infact if Indeed it is the Akula, on contrary to your statement it might turn out to be BETTER than Chinese Subs in Its Class ! ; Ofcourse It will be PreMature to make any similar Conclusions until we get confirmed specs of the Boat.
*

*Secondly,*

* As You Just Stated..*



> 15-20 years behind the US. 15 years ago, the US had started inducting Ohio class subs. Are you saying that arihant is equivalent of an earlier Ohio class nuclear subs.


*
You Must be knowing... The Equivalent of SSBN Ohio Class Subs.... Russia Has the Borei and the Typhoon Class...*
*
Just Like MKI is the F22 Raptor in South Asian Skies, YES, The INS Arihant is Equal to Ohio Class Sub in Asia.*

Do Make a NOTE that Arihant is SSBN Not an SSN, which means No need to use the "Counter" ... This Sub DOES NOT HAVE TO FACE ANOTHER SUB .. ITs Role is to Be Hidden and Deliver NUkes.

The Sub will stay Dormant.. Silently and If ordered will Atack with the 3500 KM Range SLBM Agni III or the 1500 KM ( 500 Kg Payload ), Shaurya Quazi Ballistic Missile.
*
Since China/Pakistan Have No Typhoon , Arihant Doesnt Need to be Ohio.*

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## Hulk

faithfulguy said:


> What India need is an equivalent of Polaris A1 missiles and James Madison class nuclear subs. Arihant doesn't carry anything equivalent to a Polaris missiles. India also need to build its first George Washinton Class submarine. A real SLBM submarine carrying 12-16 missiles. As far as I see, Arihant only carry 4 missiles. In my estimation, this should be a test bed platform as no other P5 deploy anything that carrying only 4 missiles



We are 1000 years behind US/China if that makes you happy. So what's ur point it's not good. Ok we are fine with that, everyone is behind USA, we are not fighting them so how does it matter. A nation who is trying to build systems it has no knowledge of will be definetly behind developed nations. Do you know we are not a developed country and you are trying compare us to worlds most developed country. I feel you are out of mind and this is your regular job comparing India with USA. Even a kid of 1st grade will know comarision should happen in same class. This is not my habit to respond like this but this is your 1000th such stupid post.


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## jbond197

faithfulguy said:


> jbond.. what are your qulifications to criticize my comments? If you do not like what I say, then come up with a response. Your childish attacks against me just show your immaturity. If you have not way of responding to my statement, you can keep quiet and stop making a fool our of yourself.



And you think your stupidity can have any logical reply. I have seen you moving thru numerous threads and showing your vast knowledge/expertise which BTW is nothing but a sheer display of stupidity.

Tell me how the comparision with US submarines were related to the topic. Did anybody made any claims that Arihant is better than so and so submaries? what was your urge to do the comparision? And if you have done the analysis would you care to post the details of that analysis so that others can answer you objectively? do you have the spec comparision details to back your claims? and if not then shut ur mouth up.


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## faithfulguy

I'm not doing any comparason. All I'm saying is that Arihant is most likely a test bed than a series production sub.Such as USS Halibut that leads to Lafayette class nuclear subs.


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## RAHUL INDIAN

faithfulguy said:


> I'm not doing any comparason. All I'm saying is that Arihant is most likely a test bed than a series production sub.Such as USS Halibut that leads to Lafayette class nuclear subs.



ok let it be clear ur assumption is wrong....not dont deluge us with ur silly assumptions...


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## RAHUL INDIAN

faithfulguy said:


> After reading more about Arihant. The equivalent of US version of Arihand is USS Halibut built in 1959.. India is about 50 years behind the US in submarine technology



n China is 100 years behind US and 50 years behind India....in subs.


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## anathema

faithfulguy said:


> I'm not doing any comparason. All I'm saying is that Arihant is most likely a test bed than a series production sub.Such as USS Halibut that leads to Lafayette class nuclear subs.



Quite possibly you may be right..there have been media reports that Arihant would act as a technology test bed for all future SSN's ...India is also building 2 other SSN's which would help us consolidate our sub building skills....In a gist i agree with you , this would serve as a Demo vehicle (which still would be very capable), however the subs that will be built post Arihant class would be a real treat.....


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## Pasban

Laughing Buddha said:


> *After Arihant; What?*
> 
> The launch of the S-2 is, no doubt, a most significant and encouraging demonstration of India's technological skills and managerial expertise. But much more than that, this vessel will provide a trials platform which will enable us to learn from our own experience, what no one is going to teach us; the arcane disciplines of SSBN operations and maintenance. The main beneficiaries of this experience will be two submarines which follow S-2. The S-3 and S-4 are planned to be built on the same baseline design as S-2, in order to consolidate shipbuilding expertise and industrial capabilities. They will therefore incorporate only those capability enhancements which can be accommodated within the same hull-form and supported by the same nuclear power-plant. Therefore it is the fourth submarine in this series the S-5, still a few years ahead, which should be an object of sharp focus for not just the IN but even more so, the DAE and DRDO. In a 50-60 year perspective, India should be looking at a standing force of 4-6 SSBNs; accompanied, if possible by a smaller force of nuclear attack submarines or SSNs. While we are well on the way to achieving mastery over many of the technologies involved, there are three key areas which would need special focus: The acquisition of propellant technology for producing underwater launched ballistic missiles of inter-continental range. The length and diameter of the missile will decide the dimensions of the SSBN. These SLBM's should preferably be capable of carrying 4-6 multiple independently-targetable re-entry vehicles (MIRV).
> 
> The indigenous design of a SSBN hull which will be able to accommodate a battery of 16-24 such SLBMs. The indigenous design of a nuclear propulsion plants of about 200 megawatt capacity, with a 6-8 years refueling cycle, to drive a SSBN of 10,000-12,000 tons at about 30 knots.
> 
> Having committed ourselves to fielding a credible deterrent in the form of a nuclear triad, we no longer have a choice but to go down this route at the earliest. This is one area where dependence on foreign sources, especially for hardware, must be minimised and autarchy aimed for. Once we acquire indigenous capability for design and production of naval reactors and LEU cores, as well as long range SLBMs, we would have achieved such autarchy.
> 
> *Future Project Management*
> 
> The PLA Navy sent its first (Han class) nuclear submarine to sea in 1974, and today the Chinese nuclear flotilla consists of 3-4 Xia and Jin class SSBNs as well as 5-6 Han and Shang class SSNs. Given that we are already 30 years behind China in this field, there is not a day to be lost in committing the necessary capital as well as human resources from the Navy, DAE and DRDO to commence design and development work.
> 
> This is going to be a complex, laborious and time consuming endeavour, and a period of even 10-15 years for attaining the capabilities listed above may be optimistic. So far, Russia has remained the main source of technology for us, but in the changing circumstances, we must not shy away from seeking advanced reactor technology from the US or France for our strategic programmes. There is no doubt that the DRDO-Navy synergy worked well during the developmental phase of the ATV. With the launch of S-2, this project now needs to transition rapidly and seamlessly from R&D mode to serial production mode. The time has therefore come to create a new management structure in which all the national capabilities created for the ATV (in the public as well as private sectors) can be brought under an umbrella corporation for serial production of nuclear submarines for the IN. Lifting the pall of secrecy will promote a better dialogue with operators and lead to design improvements.



Could you please provide me the source of this article?

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## faithfulguy

RAHUL INDIAN said:


> ok let it be clear ur assumption is wrong....not dont deluge us with ur silly assumptions...



Most first SSBN are test beds. Its clear that no real SSBN are built with only 4 launch tubes.


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## flanker143

> Most first SSBN are test beds. Its clear that no real SSBN are built with only 4 launch tubes.



but it will be carrying 12 sagarikas with a raange of 800 km ...... 3 in each tube ....as agni 3slbm still under dev !

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## MastanKhan

Hi,

Eight water tight compartments that I see---is this sub a double hulled sub---is it based on or is it a copy of Akula11---or is it an Akula11 made in india.

If so---then pak has nothing to counter it in the submarine fleet. And if it carries the torpedoes that the russians have and the ecm suite and fire control----then india has taken the battle from under the deep to a newer and greater depth.

To sink a sub with a double hull and 8 water tight compartments---it would need a nuc tipped torpedoe to do the job.


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## IndianArmy

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Eight water tight compartments that I see---is this sub a double hulled sub---is it based on or is it a copy of Akula11---or is it an Akula11 made in india.
> 
> If so---then pak has nothing to counter it in the submarine fleet. And if it carries the torpedoes that the russians have and the ecm suite and fire control----then india has taken the battle from under the deep to a newer and greater depth.
> 
> To sink a sub with a double hull and 8 water tight compartments---it would need a nuc tipped torpedoe to do the job.



This is Arihant class Sub, a different class Al together , Built Indigenously In India By BHEL,BARC, L&T & Audco India... 

And We studied the charlie Class Subs from Soviet in the Mid 80's to make this A lot more easier


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## Chanakyaa

IndianArmy said:


> This is Arihant class Sub, a different class Al together , Built Indigenously In India By BHEL,BARC, L&T & Audco India...
> 
> And We studied the charlie Class Subs from Soviet in the Mid 80's to make this A lot more easier



Yes, But it seems the sub is influenced by Akula as well. as the Russian Ambassador Remarked quite Frankly.


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## IndianArmy

XiNiX said:


> Yes, But it seems the sub is influenced by Akula as well. as the Russian Ambassador Remarked quite Frankly.



Oh I see, I dint know it had Influence of Akula aswell, then this must be a lot better than expected...


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## whitepanther

lockh33d said:


> Arihant is fail, seems like another Tejas project is coming our way... Sigh*


i think ur not a American..first please get ur fact right..dont be jealous..try to come up with good things..dont under-estimate anyone....


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## Dark Angel

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Being fair isnt easy for everyone dude


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## angeldemon_007

I dont know whether any of you guys read this article, but if not, then enjoy :


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## Choppers

^^^Already Posted And Discussed here


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## airuah

faithfulguy said:


> Most first SSBN are test beds. Its clear that no real SSBN are built with only 4 launch tubes.



let me remind you....this subs are to carry nuke war heads not conventional ones so i do thing 4 launch tubes with 3 missiles each---12 missiles would be a potentially dangerous ...

ps it is dangerous even if it only carries one nuke missile

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## kingdurgaking

arihant looks so fearceful and beautiful in the pic above.. looks like a huge black whale..


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## lepziboy

Are there any updates on this sub?


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## IND151

awesome thread

XiNiX rocks


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## BoB's

Arihant reactor will be critical in jan or feb 2012 according to the given source. Any info regarding this.

[When is the Pressurised Water Reactor, which uses enriched uranium as fuel, on board India's nuclear-powered submarine, Arihant, going critical?

I was actually hoping that it would be started up by the end of this year, but I am told now that it will be commissioned in January or February 2012. Some things are yet to be settled.]

Source- We can allay the fears'


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## lepziboy

^^Well I hope it really goes critical that time


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## praveen007

*Sea Trials of INS Arihant next month | idrw.org*
++




.
.
Media reports are indicating that *Indias first nuclear submarine is all set for its Sea Trials, scheduled for next month. INS Arihant has
recently successfully completed Harbour Acceptance Trials (HATS) and is been readied currently for Sea acceptance trials (SATS).
INS Arihant will carry out series of Sea Trials, which will also involve weapons trials at the last leg, before its ready for induction into Indian
Navy,* Naval source close to idrw.org ,mentioned that Sea Trials will be done in phases , which will not only *involve sensors and electronics test , but also safety and weapons trial.*
INS Arihant will complete Indias nuclear triad and recently Russians have handed over INS Chakra aka Akula -2 nuclear submarine to Indian Navy
last month on a ten year lease. *Source also mentioned that work on second indigenous nuclear submarine named INS Aridhaman is in full swing and works on third submarine known as S3, will start soon. Indian navy will get four submarine of Arihant class and all submarines will be joining Indian Navy by 2025.
INS Arihant has four silos and initially will be armed with 12 K-15 missiles which have 750 km range and later will also be able to carry still to tested 4 K-4 missile with range of 3500km based on Agni-3* will truly complete Indias nuclear triad.

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## manojb

Weapon trial=k15 blast out of water in middle of bay of bengal?


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## Rupeshkumar

great news !!


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## JAT BALWAN

Let`s roll out this beast to burn the @@ses of foes....


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## jha

manojb said:


> Weapon trial=k15 blast out of water in middle of bay of bengal?



Something like that...


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## T90TankGuy

the bay of Bengal has become the favorite place for testing all missiles.


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## Kinetic

great news. will be good to see arihant firing K-15.


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## satishkumarcsc

Well a nuclear triad aint complete without an ICBM out of a Submarine launcher. So what is all the Fuss about?


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## jaiind

> Indian navy will get four submarine of Arihant class and all submarines will be joining Indian Navy by 2025.


Do u all think that only 4 NSub's are sufficient for the IN for its operational size?? I think they need to have at least 10 NSubs by in next 15 years to counter all the major Threats from our rouge neighbors.


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## IND151

awesome news. we should produce bigger subs after aridhaman weighing 10,000 tons . one member here said that 3rd and 4th subs will may weigh 7000 to 8000 tons. they may have 109 MW PWR. pqpggghprmn sub gh gidd ggp


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## Abingdonboy

jaiind said:


> Do u all think that only 4 NSub's are sufficient for the IN for its operational size?? I think they need to have at least 10 NSubs by in next 15 years to counter all the major Threats from our rouge neighbors.



The 4 Arihant class subs will be succeeded by later class which have been speculated to be significantly larger and will have more in the class.


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## Nakki Nair

Four Nuke subs by 2025? We should be inducting atleast 8-10 nuke subs by then.


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## YouGotRouged

Nakki Nair said:


> Four Nuke subs by 2025? We should be inducting atleast 8-10 nuke subs by then.


India does not have unlimited resources, let's get back what black money we have lost first before we talk about spending more than what has been planned.


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## IND151

^ but its already doing sea trials so the reactor must has gone critical.


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## Dash

IND151 said:


> ^ but its already doing sea trials so the reactor must has gone critical.



Sea trails are to validate the sub marine's under sea capabilities, without the reactor being utilized to its full capacity.


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## anup

In a major step towards achieving the ability to launch nuclear payload from air, land and water, the heart of indigenous nuclear submarine  its nuclear reactor  was installed in INS Arihant and trials were conducted.

The miniature 83 MWe pressurized water reactor (PWR) fuelled by highly enriched uranium was developed with the help of Russians. The submarine was launched into the water last year and began its sea acceptance trials (SAT) earlier this year wherein it was taken out of the harbor to conduct crucial trials.

The nuclear reactor was fitted into the submarine for the first time some time back. And since it is first time that India has built a miniature nuclear reactor for moving platform it has to be tested when the submarine undergoes various kinds of motion like rolling and pitching, sources said.

So far shore-based nuclear reactor had been made by Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, but in case of INS Arihant (literally meaning slayer of enemies) the challenge was to make a compact reactor to fit into the 10 m diameter hull of the submarine. The enriched uranium for the reactor comes from the Rare Materials Project, an undertaking of the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), situated at Ratnahallai, near Mysore. With INS Arihant India has become the sixth country after the US, Russia, China, France and Britain to have succeeded in constructing a nuclear submarine.

The reactor since then has been taken out of the platform and the teething problems witnessed during the trial are being addressed to. The process will be repeated several times to make it foolproof.
Unlike other platforms, the submarine will remain submerged for many months so the crew has to be confident to handle the machine in case of contingency as no external help could be provided to them, the sources added. At the end of the trial Arihant will be given a nuclear regulatory authority certification before it could be deployed in the open oceans.

As India has a policy of no first use of nuclear weapons, a robust and survivable retaliatory strike capability is dependent on this nuclear-powered submarine. In this wake, Arihant is a shot in the arm for Indias nuclear triad. With its ability to remain submerged in the waters for infinite time, Arihant with its stealth can remain undetected by the army and can fire its nuclear-tipped missiles from under the sea.

Arihant will be armed with 12 nuclear-tipped submarine launched missile K-15 with a range of 750 km. Plans are afoot to equip it with four K-4 Submarine Launched Ballistic Missiles (SLBMs) with a range of 3,500 km later. Presently, the K-4 is under-development.

With Indian Navys submarine fleet down to 14, a major overhaul is the need of the hour especially when compared to neighbouring China that is known to operate 8-10 nuclear powered submarines and 50-60 conventional ones.

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## ishaqzaade

WOW VARY GOOD ACHIVMENT.


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## Archie

news is from 2010

since Arihant was launched in 2009 not 2011


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## Boson

Yes, quite old news.


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## perplexed

@thread OP : use some grey matter before posting.. I am sure u also have some as many others..


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## Alphacharlie

perplexed said:


> @thread OP : use some grey matter before posting.. I am sure u also have some as many others..[/QUOTE
> 
> Agree, if still needs more lot available in our Neighbourhood!!


----------



## Boson

Alphacharlie said:


> perplexed said:
> 
> 
> 
> @thread OP : use some grey matter before posting.. I am sure u also have some as many others..[/QUOTE
> 
> Agree, if still needs more lot available in our Neighbourhood!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need to rebuke .. everybody doesn't need to keep track of things .. he could be busy with his own things.
> 
> And probably he missed the date part, before posting.
Click to expand...


----------



## perplexed

Boson said:


> Alphacharlie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No need to rebuke .. everybody doesn't need to keep track of things .. he could be busy with his own things.
> 
> And probably he missed the date part, before posting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> okay.. no hard feelings !!
Click to expand...

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## arp2041

In a major step towards achieving allround ability to launch nuclear payload from air, land and water, a miniature 83 MWe pressurised water reactor (PWR), was fitted into INS Arihant and trials were conducted.The PWR is fuelled by highly-enriched uranium, which was developed with the help of Russians. The submarine was launched into the water last year and began its sea acceptance trials (SAT) earlier this year wherein it was taken out of the harbour to conduct crucial trials.

The nuclear reactor was fitted into the submarine for the first time some time back. Since it is the first time that India has built a miniature nuclear reactor for moving platform, it has to be tested when the submarine undergoes various kinds of motion like rolling and pitching, sources said.
The challenge for Bhabha Atomic Research Centre was to make a compact reactor to fit into the 10-m diameter hull of INS Arihant (literally meaning slayer of enemies). The enriched uranium for the reactor comes from the Rare Materials Project, an undertaking of the Department of Atomic Energy, situated at Ratnahallai, near Mysore. With INS Arihant, India has become the sixth country after the US, Russia, China, France and Britain to have succeeded in constructing a nuclear submarine.

At the end of the trial Arihant will be given a nuclear regulatory authority certification before it could be deployed in the open oceans.As India has a policy of no first use of nuclear weapons, a robust and survivable retaliatory strike capability is
dependent on this nuclear-powered submarine. This makes Arihant a shot in the arm for Indias nuclear triad. With its ability to remain submerged in the waters for infinite time, Arihant with its stealth can remain undetected by the army and can fire its nuclear-tipped missiles from under the sea.

INS Arihant undergoes sea acceptance trials | idrw.org

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## IndianTiger

India Launches Indigenous Nuclear Submarine - INS Arihant (Arihant Class Nuclear Submarine) - YouTube


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## Ambitious.Asian

Most of Info provided in this vdo is incorrect.

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## shuntmaster

*Why INS Arihant, submarine in final stages of testing, is so important*

New Delhi: The INS Arihant, India's indigenously-built nuclear-powered submarine which is capable of carrying nuclear missiles "will be going for sea-trials soon," Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Nirmal Verma told reporters today in New Delhi.

The submarine is now the in last stage of testing. Sources have told NDTV that barring any major set-backs, the INS Arihant should be able join the Indian Navy within the "next 18 months".

The advent of INS Arihant into the fleet will complete the crucial link in India's nuclear triad - the ability to fire nuclear weapons from land, air and sea. Admiral Verma, however, refused to give details of the weapons package on board the nuclear submarine. "I will not want to get into the details" he said.

[video]http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/india-s-first-n-sub-ins-arihant-launched/92826?v_also_see[/video]
India's first N-sub INS Arihant launched
[video]http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/india-enters-nuke-submarines-club/92842?v_also_see[/video] 
India enters nuke submarines club

The sea-trial of the INS Arihant was scheduled to start last year but was delayed because of technical glitches.

The Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) announced last month that it has successfully developed nuclear-tipped submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs). Long shrouded in secrecy, unlike surface-to-surface nuclear missiles like Agni, the SLBM was a closely -guarded secret while in development and was called the 'Sagarika Project'. In all probability, the INS Arihant will take this missile on board. So far, countries like the US, Russia, France, China and the UK have the capability to launch a submarine-based ballistic missile.

Although INS Arihant signifies a huge jump for the Indian Navy, the good news ends here. India's fleet of conventional submarines is fast depleting. India has 14 conventional submarines that run on either battery or diesel and are aging and outdated. Each of them will have completed the standard life-span of 25 years by 2017.

Admiral Verma admitted concern over the fact that upgraded versions have been grounded by bureaucratic delays. 

At any given time, only seven submarines are available for deployment and are split on either coast. Seven submarines are mostly unavailable because they need to be serviced, refitted at increasingly short terms. Also, because the boats are aging fast, their lifespan need to be extended and therefore they are not deployed.

The Indian Navy's 30-year submarine programme, devised in 1988, envisaged buying six submarines from the West and countries in the East like Russia. India was to use the acquisition process to gain enough knowledge to build the next 12 submarines on its own. But Indian shipyards have largely been unable to either pick up the requisite technology or capability. Shipyards like the Hindustan Shipyard Limited which was originally supposed to build at least 3 submarines have been found to be incapable of building submarines.

The Indian Navy has now approached the government to be allowed to build two submarines in the shipyard of the foreign collaborator. "It is not exactly asking for importing two submarines. We are asking the government to allow us to build two submarines in their shipyard. In the long run it will be help our technicians gain expertise" and cut down in delays when building in India, Admiral Verma said.

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## shuntmaster

*Why INS Arihant, submarine in final stages of testing, is so important*

New Delhi: The INS Arihant, India's indigenously-built nuclear-powered submarine which is capable of carrying nuclear missiles "will be going for sea-trials soon," Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Nirmal Verma told reporters today in New Delhi.

The submarine is now the in last stage of testing. Sources have told NDTV that barring any major set-backs, the INS Arihant should be able join the Indian Navy within the "next 18 months".

The advent of INS Arihant into the fleet will complete the crucial link in India's nuclear triad - the ability to fire nuclear weapons from land, air and sea. Admiral Verma, however, refused to give details of the weapons package on board the nuclear submarine. "I will not want to get into the details" he said.

[video]http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/india-s-first-n-sub-ins-arihant-launched/92826?v_also_see[/video]
India's first N-sub INS Arihant launched
[video]http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/india-enters-nuke-submarines-club/92842?v_also_see[/video] 
India enters nuke submarines club

The sea-trial of the INS Arihant was scheduled to start last year but was delayed because of technical glitches.

The Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) announced last month that it has successfully developed nuclear-tipped submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs). Long shrouded in secrecy, unlike surface-to-surface nuclear missiles like Agni, the SLBM was a closely -guarded secret while in development and was called the 'Sagarika Project'. In all probability, the INS Arihant will take this missile on board. So far, countries like the US, Russia, France, China and the UK have the capability to launch a submarine-based ballistic missile.

Although INS Arihant signifies a huge jump for the Indian Navy, the good news ends here. India's fleet of conventional submarines is fast depleting. India has 14 conventional submarines that run on either battery or diesel and are aging and outdated. Each of them will have completed the standard life-span of 25 years by 2017.

Admiral Verma admitted concern over the fact that upgraded versions have been grounded by bureaucratic delays. 

At any given time, only seven submarines are available for deployment and are split on either coast. Seven submarines are mostly unavailable because they need to be serviced, refitted at increasingly short terms. Also, because the boats are aging fast, their lifespan need to be extended and therefore they are not deployed.

The Indian Navy's 30-year submarine programme, devised in 1988, envisaged buying six submarines from the West and countries in the East like Russia. India was to use the acquisition process to gain enough knowledge to build the next 12 submarines on its own. But Indian shipyards have largely been unable to either pick up the requisite technology or capability. Shipyards like the Hindustan Shipyard Limited which was originally supposed to build at least 3 submarines have been found to be incapable of building submarines.

The Indian Navy has now approached the government to be allowed to build two submarines in the shipyard of the foreign collaborator. "It is not exactly asking for importing two submarines. We are asking the government to allow us to build two submarines in their shipyard. In the long run it will be help our technicians gain expertise" and cut down in delays when building in India, Admiral Verma said.


----------



## shuntmaster

*India's elusive nuclear triad will be operational soon: Navy chief*

_"INS Arihant is steadily progressing towards becoming operational&#8230;we are pretty close to putting it to sea (for extensive trials and missile firings)," announced Navy chief Admiral Nirmal Verma on Tuesday._


NEW DELHI: India's nuclear triad - the ability to fire nukes from land, air and sea - will soon be in place. After some delays and hiccups, the country's first nuclear submarine INS Arihant is getting ready "to go to sea" within the next few months.

"INS Arihant is steadily progressing towards becoming operational...we are pretty close to putting it to sea (for extensive trials and missile firings)," announced Navy chief Admiral Nirmal Verma on Tuesday.

"Navy is poised to complete the triad, and our maritime and nuclear doctrines will then be aligned to ensure our nuclear insurance comes from the sea. Given our unequivocal 'no first-use commitment', a retaliatory strike capability that is credible and invulnerable is an imperative," he added.

The Navy chief's emphatic statement comes a week after DRDO officially declared the country's first-ever SLBM (submarine-launched ballistic missile) or the K-15 missile, with a strike range of 750-km, was "ready for induction".

India has for some time possessed the Agni series of ballistic missiles as well as fighter-bombers to constitute the land and air-based legs of the triad. The long-elusive underwater leg, considered the most effective for both pre-emptive as well as retaliatory strikes, now finally seems to be taking shape with INS Arihant and its two follow-on SSBNs (nuclear-powered submarines armed with ballistic nuclear-tipped missiles).

The 6,000-tonne submarine, which has four missile silos on its hump to carry either 12 K-15s or four of the under-development 3,500-km range K-4 missiles, will head for sea only after its 83 MW pressurized light-water reactor goes "critical". So far, it has been undergoing systematic checks of all its sub-systems as well as "harbour-acceptance trials" on shore-based steam at Vizag.

With 46 warships and submarines being constructed, and another 49 in the pipeline under overall plans worth Rs 2.73 lakh crore, Admiral Verma said, "Today, I am confident we do not suffer asymmetries with anyone. We have the wherewithal to defend our maritime interests."

Brushing aside questions on the new US strategy to "rebalance" forces towards the Asia-Pacific as well as China's growing maritime might and assertiveness, the Navy chief said India's "primary" area of strategic interest lay between the Gulf and Malacca Strait, extending "down south to the Cape of Good Hope".

While India is not going to "actively deploy" in the contentious South China Sea, where China is enmeshed in territorial disputes with Vietnam, the Philippines and others, he said "all the players" there should ensure hostilities do not erupt in the region and hit global shipping and trade.

Turning to maritime terrorism, Admiral Verma said both the Navy and Coast Guard were now much better prepared and equipped to tackle 26/11-like attacks from outfits like Lashkar-e-Taiba. "Even before Abu Jundal (key 26/11 handler) said it, we had factored in such possibilities," he said.

"Terrorism from the sea and terrorism at sea are now realities of our times. In our external environment, one of our core concerns is the coalescing of the 'state' with 'non-state' entities," he added.

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## shuntmaster

*India's elusive nuclear triad will be operational soon: Navy chief*

_"INS Arihant is steadily progressing towards becoming operational&#8230;we are pretty close to putting it to sea (for extensive trials and missile firings)," announced Navy chief Admiral Nirmal Verma on Tuesday._


NEW DELHI: India's nuclear triad - the ability to fire nukes from land, air and sea - will soon be in place. After some delays and hiccups, the country's first nuclear submarine INS Arihant is getting ready "to go to sea" within the next few months.

"INS Arihant is steadily progressing towards becoming operational...we are pretty close to putting it to sea (for extensive trials and missile firings)," announced Navy chief Admiral Nirmal Verma on Tuesday.

"Navy is poised to complete the triad, and our maritime and nuclear doctrines will then be aligned to ensure our nuclear insurance comes from the sea. Given our unequivocal 'no first-use commitment', a retaliatory strike capability that is credible and invulnerable is an imperative," he added.

The Navy chief's emphatic statement comes a week after DRDO officially declared the country's first-ever SLBM (submarine-launched ballistic missile) or the K-15 missile, with a strike range of 750-km, was "ready for induction".

India has for some time possessed the Agni series of ballistic missiles as well as fighter-bombers to constitute the land and air-based legs of the triad. The long-elusive underwater leg, considered the most effective for both pre-emptive as well as retaliatory strikes, now finally seems to be taking shape with INS Arihant and its two follow-on SSBNs (nuclear-powered submarines armed with ballistic nuclear-tipped missiles).

The 6,000-tonne submarine, which has four missile silos on its hump to carry either 12 K-15s or four of the under-development 3,500-km range K-4 missiles, will head for sea only after its 83 MW pressurized light-water reactor goes "critical". So far, it has been undergoing systematic checks of all its sub-systems as well as "harbour-acceptance trials" on shore-based steam at Vizag.

With 46 warships and submarines being constructed, and another 49 in the pipeline under overall plans worth Rs 2.73 lakh crore, Admiral Verma said, "Today, I am confident we do not suffer asymmetries with anyone. We have the wherewithal to defend our maritime interests."

Brushing aside questions on the new US strategy to "rebalance" forces towards the Asia-Pacific as well as China's growing maritime might and assertiveness, the Navy chief said India's "primary" area of strategic interest lay between the Gulf and Malacca Strait, extending "down south to the Cape of Good Hope".

While India is not going to "actively deploy" in the contentious South China Sea, where China is enmeshed in territorial disputes with Vietnam, the Philippines and others, he said "all the players" there should ensure hostilities do not erupt in the region and hit global shipping and trade.

Turning to maritime terrorism, Admiral Verma said both the Navy and Coast Guard were now much better prepared and equipped to tackle 26/11-like attacks from outfits like Lashkar-e-Taiba. "Even before Abu Jundal (key 26/11 handler) said it, we had factored in such possibilities," he said.

"Terrorism from the sea and terrorism at sea are now realities of our times. In our external environment, one of our core concerns is the coalescing of the 'state' with 'non-state' entities," he added.


----------



## Major Shaitan Singh

India on Tuesday said its first home-built nuclear submarine was set for sea trials, as it detailed billion-dollar projects to arm its navy with warships, aircraft and modern weaponry.

The indigenous 6,000-ton INS Arihant (Destroyer of Enemies) was unveiled in 2009 as part of a project to construct five such vessels which would be armed with nuclear-tipped missiles and torpedoes.

Arihant is steadily progressing towards operationalisation, and we hope to commence sea trials in the coming months, Indian navy chief Admiral Nirmal Verma told reporters.

Our maritime and nuclear doctrine will then be aligned to ensure that our nuclear insurance comes from the sea, Verma said,

Arihant is powered by an 85-megawatt nuclear reactor and can reach 44 kilometres an hour (24 knots), according to defence officials. It will carry a 95-member crew.

The Indian navy inducted a Russian-leased nuclear submarine into service in April this year, joining China, France, the United States, Britain and Russia in the elite club of countries with nuclear-powered vessels.

Verma said 43 warships were currently under construction at local shipyards while the first of six Franco-Spanish Scorpene submarines under contract would join the Indian navy in 2015 and the sixth by 2018.

The admiral said the navy was also poised to induct eight Boeing long-range maritime reconnaissance P-8I aircraft next year.

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## Screambowl

and not even a single snap of the completed vessel . Great! Happy to see secrecy still exists

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## Arsalan

*The Indian first nuclear submarine, INS Arihant originally planned for 2012 has been delayed further by one year.*



> Indian carrier, nuke submarine programs delayed:
> NEW DELHI, India - India's key navy programs -- the indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) and the nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant -- are running late, according to local media reports Wednesday.
> 
> The *aircraft carrier, originally scheduled for induction in 2015, has been pushed back to 2017, and the nuclear submarine, earlier set for operationalization this year, has been rescheduled for next year,* said Indo-Asian News Service.
> 
> *Indian Navy chief Admiral Nirmal Verma was quoted as saying Tuesday the aircraft carrier may not be inducted anytime before 2017 or so and the reason for the delay was the "set back" the project had over delays in gear box deliveries and a road accident involving a truck carrying the generators for the vessel.*
> 
> However,* Verma also claimed that India's nuclear triad -- the ability to fire nuclear from land, air and sea -- will soon be in place, once INS Arihant is put into the sea next year, *reported local daily Times of India.
> 
> "Navy is poised to complete the triad, and our maritime and nuclear doctrines will then be aligned to ensure our nuclear insurance comes from the sea. Given our unequivocal 'no first-use commitment,' a retaliatory strike capability that is credible and invulnerable is an imperative," he was quoted as saying.


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## IND151

Dash said:


> Sea trails are to validate the sub marine's under sea capabilities, without the reactor being utilized to its full capacity.



so how she is moving underwater during sea trials?

BTW sources say that the INS Arihant will now go to sea trials (reported on 7th Aug, 2012)

it means previous news i was referring to was wrong

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## T90TankGuy

already posted by spark yesterday

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sudhir007

Why INS Arihant, submarine in final stages of testing, is so important | NDTV.com

The INS Arihant, India's indigenously-built nuclear-powered submarine which is capable of carrying nuclear missiles "will be going for sea-trials soon," Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Nirmal Verma told reporters today in New Delhi.

The submarine is now the in last stage of testing. Sources have told NDTV that barring any major set-backs, the INS Arihant should be able join the Indian Navy within the "next 18 months".

The advent of INS Arihant into the fleet will complete the crucial link in India's nuclear triad - the ability to fire nuclear weapons from land, air and sea. Admiral Verma, however, refused to give details of the weapons package on board the nuclear submarine. "I will not want to get into the details" he said.

The sea-trial of the INS Arihant was scheduled to start last year but was delayed because of technical glitches.

The Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) announced last month that it has successfully developed nuclear-tipped submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs). Long shrouded in secrecy, unlike surface-to-surface nuclear missiles like Agni, the SLBM was a closely -guarded secret while in development and was called the 'Sagarika Project'. In all probability, the INS Arihant will take this missile on board. So far, countries like the US, Russia, France, China and the UK have the capability to launch a submarine-based ballistic missile.

Although INS Arihant signifies a huge jump for the Indian Navy, the good news ends here. India's fleet of conventional submarines is fast depleting. India has 14 conventional submarines that run on either battery or diesel and are aging and outdated. Each of them will have completed the standard life-span of 25 years by 2017.

Admiral Verma admitted concern over the fact that upgraded versions have been grounded by bureaucratic delays.

At any given time, only seven submarines are available for deployment and are split on either coast. Seven submarines are mostly unavailable because they need to be serviced, refitted at increasingly short terms. Also, because the boats are aging fast, their lifespan need to be extended and therefore they are not deployed.

The Indian Navy's 30-year submarine programme, devised in 1988, envisaged buying six submarines from the West and countries in the East like Russia. India was to use the acquisition process to gain enough knowledge to build the next 12 submarines on its own. But Indian shipyards have largely been unable to either pick up the requisite technology or capability. Shipyards like the Hindustan Shipyard Limited which was originally supposed to build at least 3 submarines have been found to be incapable of building submarines.

The Indian Navy has now approached the government to be allowed to build two submarines in the shipyard of the foreign collaborator. "It is not exactly asking for importing two submarines. We are asking the government to allow us to build two submarines in their shipyard. In the long run it will be help our technicians gain expertise" and cut down in delays when building in India, Admiral Verma said.

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## kurup

Good news .........

But So many threads running simultaneously on arihant .......

It would have been good if the mods made a sticky thread for Arihant or Indian nuclear subs ........

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## kurup

IND151 said:


> so how she is moving underwater during sea trials?
> 
> BTW sources say that the INS Arihant will now go to sea trials (reported on 7th Aug, 2012)
> 
> it means previous news i was referring to was wrong



Yes .......It looks like previously it was undergoing harbor acceptance trials not sea trials .......

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## arp2041

INS Arihant and India

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## Martian2

XiNiX said:


> *
> INS ARIHANT : The Complete Discussion*​
> *INS Arihant Needs no Introduction. Yet I dedicate this Thread which will aim at all miniscule points that can be discussed and users would get complete info of this marvellous Indian Achievement.
> 
> Welcome To INS Arihant !*
> 
> *
> Okey so Whats the Fuss About INS Arihant??*



*U.S. Los Angeles class submarine is 6,000 tons. Your illustration above is wrong.*

I want to correct a false claim in the illustration.

The US Los Angeles class nuclear submarine displaces 6,000 tons (see citations below), not the 16,000 metric tons claimed in the graphic.

Perhaps he meant the 16,000 tonne Ohio-class submarine.

Anyway, the illustrator needs to change the displacement to match the Los Angeles class submarine or he has to change the name to the Ohio class.

----------

Los Angeles Class Nuclear Submarine

"Jan 17, 2009 &#8211; *The Los Angeles Class nuclear Submarine is a very large size submarine (6,000 tons)* mostly due to the doubling of the Nuclear reactor power ..."

USS GREENEVILLE (SSN-772) Deployments & History

"USS BOISE (SSN-764) - *a Los Angeles-class submarine. In Commission 1992 to Present ... Displacement: 6000 tons.* Length: 362 feet. Beam: 32 feet 10 inches ..."


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## kurup

Indias SSBN Shows Itself






A new satellite image appears to show part of Indias new SSBN partly concealed at the Visakhapatnam naval base on the Indian east coast (17°4238.06&#8243;N, 83°164.90&#8243;E).


By Hans M. Kristensen

Could it be? It is not entirely clear, but a new satellite image might be showing part of Indias first nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine, the Arihant.

The image, taken by GeoEyes satellite on March 18, 2012, and made available on Google Earth, shows what appears to be the conning tower (or sail) of a submarine in a gap of covers intended to conceal it deep inside the Visakhapatnam (Vizag) Naval Base on the Indian east coast.

The image appears to show a gangway leading from the pier with service buildings and a large crane to the submarine hull just behind the conning tower. The outlines of what appear to be two horizontal diving planes extending from either side of the conning tower can also be seen on the grainy image.

The Arihant was launched in 2009 from the shipyard on the other side of the harbor and moved under an initial cover. An image released by the Indian government in 2010 appears to show the submarine inside the initial cover.






The Indian government published this image in 2010, apparently showing the Arihant inside the initial concealment building.


The new cover, made up of what appears to be 13-meter floating modules that can be assembled to fit the length of the submarine, similarly to what Russia is using at its submarine shipyard in Severodvinsk, first appeared in 2010. Images from 2011 show the modules in various configurations but without the submarine inside.

The movement of the Arihant from the initial cover building to the module covers next to the service facilities and large crane indicates that the submarine has entered a new phase of fitting out. The initial cover building appeared empty in April 2012 when the Indian Navy show-cased its new Russia-supplied Akula-class nuclear-powered attack submarine: the Chakra.

It is thought that the Arihant is equipped with less than a dozen launch tubes behind the conning tower for short/medium-range nuclear-armed ballistic missiles. Before it can become fully operational, however, the Arihant will have to undergo extensive refitting and sea-trials that may last through 2013. It is expected that India might be building several SSBNs.

Like the other nuclear weapon states, India continues to modernize its nuclear forces, despite pledges to work for a world free of nuclear weapons.

India

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## Vendetta

greatttt ....yar


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## Kyusuibu Honbu



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## HongWu

Wow I see it's already launched into water for a long time


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## Sergi

HongWu said:


> Wow I see it's already launched into water for a long time



So what's your point "resident troll PDF" ???


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## faithfulguy

I hope India create a new class of UBS instead of build another rich ant. The first sub should be for study only. Especially with only 4 tubes.


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## kurup

faithfulguy said:


> I hope India create a new class of UBS instead of build another rich ant. The first sub should be for study only. Especially with only 4 tubes.



It is good design . Can be converted to a SSGN .


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## Sergi

octopus said:


> It is good design . Can be converted to a SSGN .



I think first one will join the service no doubt but it always remain as "Research and devlopment platform" than a full time IN weapon
Remaining 3 will join the service as other subs. 

The follow on class and remaing three of Arihant class are rumered to have more tubes that the first one

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## kurup

Sergi said:


> I think first one will join the service no doubt but it always remain as "Research and devlopment platform" than a full time IN weapon
> Remaining 3 will join the service as other subs.
> 
> The follow on class and remaing three of Arihant class are rumered to have more tubes that the first one



IIRC , more tubes will be added for just 3rd and 4th one . 2nd one Arhidhaman is similar in diamension to Arihant

"_Informed sources said India's second nuclear submarine named "Arhidaman ins" will be and its predecessor Arihant submarine's twin. Its features, size and capabilities will be similar to Arihant_."

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...a-second-nuclear-submarine-ins-arhidaman.html


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## Sergi

octopus said:


> IIRC , more tubes will be added for just 3rd and 4th one . 2nd one Arhidhaman is similar in diamension to Arihant
> 
> "_Informed sources said India's second nuclear submarine named "Arhidaman ins" will be and its predecessor Arihant submarine's twin. Its features, size and capabilities will be similar to Arihant_."
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...a-second-nuclear-submarine-ins-arhidaman.html



It's a IBN news and we both know the quality of Indian defence reports. Still it's the only news in market. But what actually we know is only thing that 2nd and 3rd Arihant class are in production line. Nothing more nothing less. Nobody knows what's its size and capacity is. But I remember reading our Navel chiefs interview where he said follow on subs will come more quickly and will be more powerful.


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## kurup

Sergi said:


> It's a IBN news and we both know the quality of Indian defence reports. Still it's the only news in market. But what actually we know is only thing that 2nd and 3rd Arihant class are in production line. Nothing more nothing less. Nobody knows what's its size and capacity is. But I remember reading our Navel chiefs interview where he said follow on subs will come more quickly and will be more powerful.



Do these follow on subs come with a more powerful reactor ??


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## Sergi

octopus said:


> Do these follow on subs come with a more powerful reactor ??



Honestly I don't know. Nobody knows. Our Sub programme and SLBM programmes are too much hush hush ( *it's good thing though* ).
Only think we know about the present reacted in Arihant generates more power than required. Rumer is that we have made more powerful reactor. Its under testing but it is said to be for Nuclear ACC IAC-3. Again it's a rumer nothing for sure. Only news like the above one


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## kurup

Sergi said:


> Honestly I don't know. Nobody knows. Our Sub programme and SLBM programmes are too much hush hush ( it's good thing though).
> Only think we know about the present reacted in *Arihant generates more power than required*. Rumer is that we have made more powerful reactor. Its under testing but it is said to be for Nuclear ACC IAC-3. Again it's a rumer nothing for sure. Only news like the above one



Any source for the bolded part friend .

In almost all news they are reporting the opposite


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## Sergi

octopus said:


> Any source for the bolded part friend .
> 
> In almost all news they are reporting the opposite



Unfortunatly NO. It was mentioned by BARC scientist in the interview on news channel. Infact they actually show the place of diameter 10m where they build the reactor. Trying to find that video on you tube. Will let you know. 

And all sources are saying other subs have more powerful reactor than Arihant or Arihant is underpowered ???


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## kurup

Thanks for replying me everytime dude



Sergi said:


> Unfortunatly NO. It was mentioned by BARC scientist in the interview on news channel. Infact they actually show the place of diameter 10m where they build the reactor. Trying to find that video on you tube. Will let you know.
> 
> And all sources are saying other subs have more powerful reactor than Arihant or Arihant is underpowered ???



Yes friend , there were quite some reports stating so . Don't know how much reliable they are.

What is your take on Arihant reactor power - 83 MWe or 83 MWt ??

If it is 83 MWt ,then comparing with other boats of it's size like say Los Angeles ssn (both at 5000-6000 ton disp.) powered by 150 MWt rector , Arihant sure looks underpowered .


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## kurup

*INS Arihant cutaway*

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## subincb

any link that says its Arihant.


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## kurup

subincb said:


> any link that says its Arihant.



Got it from wiki .

INS Arihant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## The A-5

This is the picture shown on the wiki page -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Arihant_1.jpg


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## arp2041

octopus said:


> Thanks for replying me everytime dude
> 
> 
> 
> Yes friend , there were quite some reports stating so . Don't know how much reliable they are.
> 
> What is your take on Arihant reactor power - 83 MWe or 83 MWt ??
> 
> If it is 83 MWt ,then comparing with other boats of it's size like say Los Angeles ssn (both at 5000-6000 ton disp.) powered by 150 MWt rector , Arihant sure looks underpowered .



Yes, Arihant is highly underpowered, actually, the subs aren't usually run at there full power until a serious requirement is there to do so but Arihant's low power reactor will be running at full power almost all the time, besides it's hull would have to be cut open to replace the fuel rod in just 10-15 years, US subs replace fuel rods in 25-30 years time.

+ the next SSBN class will have nearly double power that of Arihant.


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## The A-5

arp2041 said:


> Yes, Arihant is highly underpowered, actually, the subs aren't usually run at there full power until a serious requirement is there to do so but Arihant's low power reactor will be running at full power almost all the time, besides it's hull would have to be cut open to replace the fuel rod in just 10-15 years, US subs replace fuel rods in 25-30 years time.
> 
> + the next SSBN class will have nearly double power that of Arihant.



A 200mW PWR is under development by DAE for the 22,000-ton "S5"-type SSBN.


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## Captain Spark

arp2041 said:


> Yes, Arihant is highly underpowered, actually, the subs aren't usually run at there full power until a serious requirement is there to do so but Arihant's low power reactor will be running at full power almost all the time, besides it's hull would have to be cut open to replace the fuel rod in just 10-15 years, US subs replace fuel rods in 25-30 years time.
> 
> +* the next SSBN class will have nearly double power that of Arihant.*




any source???



The A-5 said:


> A 200mW PWR is under development by DAE for the 22,000-ton "S5"-type SSBN.



plz share the source of the news...


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## The A-5

Captain Spark said:


> plz share the source of the news...



Prasun's blog TRISHUL.

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## jimmydefence

sorry... posted under wrong title (Tab changed)

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## Safriz

Does india have any Submarine with land attack Missile launch capability?


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## Hyperion

Safriz said:


> Does india have any Submarine with land attack Missile launch capability?


I think Arihant will have that with the new K series of missiles. 

Or, was the question: Does India possess SLCM, SLBM launch capability?

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## Safriz

Hyperion said:


> I think Arihant will have that with the new K series of missiles.
> 
> Or, was the question: Does India possess SLCM, SLBM launch capability?


Arihant is incomplete and nobody knows when it will be completed...
I was asking if India Currently has such capability?

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## Abingdonboy

Safriz said:


> Does india have any Submarine with land attack Missile launch capability?



The Indian Navy uses both Klub-S and Klub-N variants for the Kilo class submarines (known as the Sindhughosh Class in Indian service), additionally the P-75I will proboly be able to fire the Bhramos. 


Safriz said:


> Arihant is incomplete and nobody knows when it will be completed...
> I was asking if India Currently has such capability?


 @Safriz

The INS ARIHANT class will have K series with K-4s already tested and ready to enter service. INS Arihant will enter service by late 2013 or early 2014 with the remaining Arihant class subs entering every subsequent year.It is complete, it has sailed under its own power and will begin sea trails in very early 2013.

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## The A-5

Abingdonboy said:


> The Indian Navy uses both Klub-S and Klub-N variants for the Kilo class submarines (known as the Sindhughosh Class in Indian service), additionally the P-75I will proboly be able to fire the Bhramos.
> @Safriz
> 
> The INS ARIHANT class will have K series with *K-4s *already tested and ready to enter service. INS Arihant will enter service by late 2013 or early 2014 with the remaining Arihant class subs entering every subsequent year.It is complete, it has sailed under its own power and will begin sea trails in very early 2013.



Sir it are the K-15s that are tested and in series production, not K-4.

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## Abingdonboy

The A-5 said:


> Sir it are the K-15s that are tested and in series production, not K-4.



Yes, you are correct Sir- my mistake!

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## kurup

The A-5 said:


> Sir it are the K-15s that are tested and in series production, not K-4.



This report says it was tested .

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## The A-5

octopus said:


> This report says it was tested .



False news. K-4 is still under development, first test will be in 2013-2014.


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## perplexed

octopus said:


> *This report says it was tested .*




Thats called stupid journalism !!


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## Water Car Engineer



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## kaykay

The A-5 said:


> False news. K-4 is still under development, first test will be in 2013-2014.



well reports says it was covertly tested back in January 2010....

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## The A-5

kaykay said:


> well reports says it was covertly tested back in January 2010....



That was a K-15 misreported as K-4.

K-4 is still under development and a pontoon-based test should be done by late 2013 or 2014.

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## Black Widow

A-5 is right, K4 is not yet complete.. One more thing I will say, K4 is more advance and has more range than K15. Some ppl might have misunderstood the K15 comes aftr K4... Wrong...

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## arp2041

Black Widow said:


> A-5 is right, K4 is not yet complete.. One more thing I will say, K4 is more advance and has more range than K15. Some ppl might have misunderstood the K15 comes aftr K4... Wrong...



Yes, K-4 is an under-development missile of the K - Family:

K-4 (SLBM) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The important thing is it's range which is speculated at 3500+ km, that means INS Arihant patrolling the Bay of Bengal can easily hit targets inside both Pakistan & China.

But it's striking range vis-a-vis China is limited, to strike Beijing & Shanghai, Arihant will have to pass the malacca straits where it can become vulnerable to detection. A-6 will be the answer to this which has range of 6000+ km.

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## Black Widow

Abingdonboy said:


> The Indian Navy uses both Klub-S and Klub-N variants for the Kilo class submarines (known as the Sindhughosh Class in Indian service), additionally the P-75I will proboly be able to fire the Bhramos.
> @Safriz
> 
> The INS ARIHANT class will have K series with K-4s already tested and ready to enter service. INS Arihant will enter service by late 2013 or early 2014 with the remaining Arihant class subs entering every subsequent year.It is complete, it has sailed under its own power and will begin sea trails in very early 2013.





Are u crazy K4 is MRBM, Its range is ~4000 Km (Citation needed), there is no official confirmation of its status (Not sure about secret tests, as K series secret project). It was K15 Sagarika (similar to shourya Quasi Ballistic missile which was tested from Pontoon)..


@Indian SLBM capacity: Currently India has no SLBM operational , Niether We have any SSBN , Though Indian has SSGN (no sure) .

SSBN : Submarine Ballistic Nuclear
SSGN : Submarine Guided (Cruise) Nuclear
SSN: Submaring Attack Nuclear (Torpedos) 
@Abingdonboy :Sorry, I couldn't see your other post


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## RISING SUN

Black Widow said:


> Are u crazy K4 is MRBM, Its range is ~4000 Km (Citation needed), there is no official confirmation of its status (Not sure about secret tests, as K series secret project). It was K15 Sagarika (similar to shourya Quasi Ballistic missile which was tested from Pontoon)..
> 
> 
> @Indian SLBM capacity: Currently India has no SLBM operational , Niether We have any SSBN , Though Indian has SSGN (no sure) .
> 
> SSBN : Submarine Ballistic Nuclear
> SSGN : Submarine Guided (Cruise) Nuclear
> SSN: Submaring Attack Nuclear (Torpedos)
> @Abingdonboy :Sorry, I couldn't see your other post



2 tests of K4 has been already done, more to be done to make it operational. India's first SLBM is operational(if you know what I mean).
India has only 1 SSN operational.
SSBN is used for second strike capability.
SSGN is used for strike against land based targets by cruise missiles.
SSN is used to secure the area from under water and sub surface enemy boats.

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## kurup

RISING SUN said:


> 2 tests of K4 has been already done, more to be done to make it operational.



Any source for this.



RISING SUN said:


> India's first SLBM is operational(if you know what I mean).



You are talking about sagarika , right.


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## DARKY

Abingdonboy said:


> The Indian Navy uses both Klub-S and Klub-N variants for the Kilo class submarines (known as the Sindhughosh Class in Indian service), additionally the P-75I will proboly be able to fire the Bhramos.
> @Safriz
> 
> The INS ARIHANT class will have K series with K-4s already tested and ready to enter service. INS Arihant will enter service by late 2013 or early 2014 with the remaining Arihant class subs entering every subsequent year.It is complete, it has sailed under its own power and will begin sea trails in very early 2013.



It had its sea trials already 1st long endurance deep sea trial/strategic patrol trial was due... which was to take place early previous year but there was no other submarine which could chase Airhant.. now that Akula is ready and fully operational the deep sea trail must be underway If not already happened... the only last step left is firing of a SLBM which would happen later this year... It was also delayed due to lack of long range trails.. and would have happened in December last year If Akula was inducted in time.



Safriz said:


> Arihant is incomplete and nobody knows when it will be completed...
> I was asking if India Currently has such capability?



The second submarine is having its systems integrated and you are talking of 1st The hull of the 3rd and 2nd was completed in 2011... by L&T.

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## RISING SUN

kurup said:


> Any source for this.
> You are talking about sagarika , right.


The DRDO is developing a K-4 underwater-launched missile, which will have a range of 3,000 km. *Developmental tests of the missile's gas-booster have taken place from a pontoon. *
The Hindu : Cities / Chennai : DRDO plans another K-15 missile launch

*The secret 'K' missile family
*In a dramatic breakthrough in its nuclear offensive capability, India has successfully tested a submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) with an *eventual range of 3,500 km*. Tested secretly off Visakhapatnam in *January this year*, the 10-m long and *1.3-m wide* missile emerged from a pontoon submerged 50 m underwater and breached the surface. *Painted black and white* so that it can be distinguished in water, it has passed a critical parameter.

Named after India's missile man, former President APJ Abdul Kalam, the nuclear-tipped K-4 is quite significant in a batch of new-generation counter-strike strategic missiles. The top secret indigenous "K" missiles are faster, lighter and stealthier. They also make India only the sixth country to develop undersea strategic missiles.
A *second firing*, to be conducted off Visakhapatnam within two months, will revalidate a critical parameter-the ability of a *20-tonne projectile* to withstand 50 kg of water pressure and eject from a submerged launcher before engaging its rocket booster. What makes an SLBM relevant in the Indian context is that it is part of the third leg of the nuclear deterrent (air and ground-launched weapons being the other two) and the ideal invulnerable second strike weapon stated in the nuclear doctrine. Defence officials say a long range SLBM like the K-4 will enable an Indian nuclear submarine lurking in the Bay of Bengal to target China and Pakistan simultaneously. Launched last year, India's first indigenous nuclear-powered submarine Arihant has been designed to carry four K-4s or 12 of the 750-km range K-15s.

DRDO officials say that the K-4 will be ready for induction before the end of the decade. This is because most technologies, including the sophisticated guidance packages, were already perfected while developing the shorter range K-15 SLBM. Defence officials, however, are cautious because despite a history of missile expertise, Russia has witnessed multiple failures of its new Bulava SLBM. In the works is an as yet *unnamed longer-legged variant of the K-4 with a 5,000-km range*. The 12-m long missile is meant to arm *future nuclear submarines*.

But while the DRDO parades its Agni and Prithvi missiles on Republic Day, it *will not even acknowledge the existence of any of these "black projectsÃ¢â¬?* that have been cloaked under the Advanced Technology Vessel Project (ATV) that builds the Arihant class of nuclear submarines.
The secret 'K' missile family : The Big Story - India Today

*India to test a submarine-based ballistic missile*
India's Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) started preparations for test launch of a submarine-based ballistic missile (SLBM), reports Express Buzz. The missile will be launched from underwater position off the Andhra Pradesh state. Expectedly, the trials will be held in *Jan 2011*.

DRDO does not specify which missile is to be tested. At present, India develops two missiles of this class &#8211; K-4 (Agni-III SLBM) and K-15 (Sagarika). As for directors of test range Chandipur, the new SLBM will be launched by underwater stand which is almost identical to submarine.

Tests of K-type ballistic missiles will be carried out by above mentioned stand for next several years, since the country does not have a missile-tubed submarine so far. In prospect, trials will be held by Indian nuclear sub Arihant launched in 2009; the sub is to be commissioned in 2011.

According to DRDO, *both K-4 and K-15 SLBMs are absolutely ready for tests*. K-15 Sagarika will be armed with a 1-ton warhead capable to destroy targets at 700 km. The missile has a weight of 17 tons; its length is 10 meters and diameter is 0.74 meters. It is known that ground-based variant of the missile (Shaurya) is being developed on the basis of K-15.

Being a naval version of ground-based Agni-III SLBM, K-4 will be armed with 2.5-ton warhead capable to destroy targets at the distance up to 3,500 km. Other specifications of this missile are undisclosed so far. Reportedly, it will be smaller than Agni-III and armed with nuclear warheads (yield of 200-250 kiloton).
India to test a submarine-based ballistic missile

*K-5*
PicValley.net - FREE anonymous photo hosting and photo sharing

*DRDO developing missile capable of carrying multiple warheads*
While the length of the missile would be reportedly around 40 meters as against Agni-V&#8217;s 17.5 meter, its diameter will be 1.1 meter, which is almost half of Agni-V. The missile&#8217;s launch weight would be around 55 tonne.

The ICBM Agni-VI is said to be the latest and most advanced version among the Agni series of missiles. It will have the capability to be launched from submarine and from land-based launchers. The DRDO is also working on integrating Agni-V with submarine. 
DRDO developing missile capable of carrying multiple warheads



kurup said:


> Any source for this.
> You are talking about sagarika , right.


The DRDO is developing a K-4 underwater-launched missile, which will have a range of 3,000 km. *Developmental tests of the missile's gas-booster have taken place from a pontoon. *
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Chennai/article1134320.ece

*The secret 'K' missile family
*In a dramatic breakthrough in its nuclear offensive capability, India has successfully tested a submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) with an *eventual range of 3,500 km*. Tested secretly off Visakhapatnam in *January this year*, the 10-m long and *1.3-m wide* missile emerged from a pontoon submerged 50 m underwater and breached the surface. *Painted black and white* so that it can be distinguished in water, it has passed a critical parameter.

Named after India's missile man, former President APJ Abdul Kalam, the nuclear-tipped K-4 is quite significant in a batch of new-generation counter-strike strategic missiles. The top secret indigenous "K" missiles are faster, lighter and stealthier. They also make India only the sixth country to develop undersea strategic missiles.
A *second firing*, to be conducted off Visakhapatnam within two months, will revalidate a critical parameter-the ability of a *20-tonne projectile* to withstand 50 kg of water pressure and eject from a submerged launcher before engaging its rocket booster. What makes an SLBM relevant in the Indian context is that it is part of the third leg of the nuclear deterrent (air and ground-launched weapons being the other two) and the ideal invulnerable second strike weapon stated in the nuclear doctrine. Defence officials say a long range SLBM like the K-4 will enable an Indian nuclear submarine lurking in the Bay of Bengal to target China and Pakistan simultaneously. Launched last year, India's first indigenous nuclear-powered submarine Arihant has been designed to carry four K-4s or 12 of the 750-km range K-15s.

DRDO officials say that the K-4 will be ready for induction before the end of the decade. This is because most technologies, including the sophisticated guidance packages, were already perfected while developing the shorter range K-15 SLBM. Defence officials, however, are cautious because despite a history of missile expertise, Russia has witnessed multiple failures of its new Bulava SLBM. In the works is an as yet *unnamed longer-legged variant of the K-4 with a 5,000-km range*. The 12-m long missile is meant to arm *future nuclear submarines*.

But while the DRDO parades its Agni and Prithvi missiles on Republic Day, it *will not even acknowledge the existence of any of these "black projectsÃ¢â&#130;¬?* that have been cloaked under the Advanced Technology Vessel Project (ATV) that builds the Arihant class of nuclear submarines.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/the-secret-k-missile-family/1/120488.html

*India to test a submarine-based ballistic missile*
India's Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) started preparations for test launch of a submarine-based ballistic missile (SLBM), reports Express Buzz. The missile will be launched from underwater position off the Andhra Pradesh state. Expectedly, the trials will be held in *Jan 2011*.

DRDO does not specify which missile is to be tested. At present, India develops two missiles of this class  K-4 (Agni-III SLBM) and K-15 (Sagarika). As for directors of test range Chandipur, the new SLBM will be launched by underwater stand which is almost identical to submarine.

Tests of K-type ballistic missiles will be carried out by above mentioned stand for next several years, since the country does not have a missile-tubed submarine so far. In prospect, trials will be held by Indian nuclear sub Arihant launched in 2009; the sub is to be commissioned in 2011.

According to DRDO, *both K-4 and K-15 SLBMs are absolutely ready for tests*. K-15 Sagarika will be armed with a 1-ton warhead capable to destroy targets at 700 km. The missile has a weight of 17 tons; its length is 10 meters and diameter is 0.74 meters. It is known that ground-based variant of the missile (Shaurya) is being developed on the basis of K-15.

Being a naval version of ground-based Agni-III SLBM, K-4 will be armed with 2.5-ton warhead capable to destroy targets at the distance up to 3,500 km. Other specifications of this missile are undisclosed so far. Reportedly, it will be smaller than Agni-III and armed with nuclear warheads (yield of 200-250 kiloton).
http://www.rusnavy.com/news/othernavies/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=11204&print=Y

*K-5*
http://www.picvalley.net/v.php?p=u/2074/17853679775285552951329904587pJaDA6XeFXdhs3cE2F9M.JPG

*DRDO developing missile capable of carrying multiple warheads*
While the length of the missile would be reportedly around 40 meters as against Agni-Vs 17.5 meter, its diameter will be 1.1 meter, which is almost half of Agni-V. The missiles launch weight would be around 55 tonne.

The ICBM Agni-VI is said to be the latest and most advanced version among the Agni series of missiles. It will have the capability to be launched from submarine and from land-based launchers. The DRDO is also working on integrating Agni-V with submarine. 
http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/drdo-developing-missile-capable-of-carrying-multiple-warheads_827762.html

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## RISING SUN

This info about K4 launches was leaked by some navy officers on Facebook & was posted on this very forum as well. Later there was discussion in a thread as well right here.

I know few more things but as OSCAR sir said it's always better to hide these things on public forums.*(It is idiotic to leak out ANY information without checking with your superiors first or verifying that the information is available publicly.(a different thing if the public inflates the info for their own appeasement.)*
)

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/155324-navy-officers-dock-leaking-info.html

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## RISING SUN

The existence of the missile was first leaked to the press in November 2010.


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## RISING SUN

This is the first video of the test of Indian K-15 SLBM made public ! This is the 14th successful test of this great SLBM...which now completes the Indian nuclear triad by getting operational..this would now be integrated with INS Arihant ! JAI HIND !
This is the first... | Facebook

*K-15 SLBM a beast loaded with gen-next tech: Scientists*
The scientists at Defence Research and Development Organisations (DRDO) Missile Complex in Hyderabad are an inspired lot, thanks to the successful test (*14th*) of the 750-km range submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM), K-15. The missile (codenamed B-05), was tested for its full range from a submerged pontoon, off the coast of Vishakapatanam on Sunday.

Sources in the Missile Complex told Express that K-15 was launched from an underwater vehicle with an approximate depth of 50 metres. What adds teeth to the killer missile is the array of gen-text technologies that are embedded onboard, a majority of features till kept under wraps. The medium range missile, with a capacity to be launched from multiple platforms has so far undergone many trials. It is primarily employed against land targets. The missile is incorporated with high accuracy navigation systems with completely different and specific schemes, that can steer the vehicle towards the target with single-digit accuracy, sources said.

The scientists have designed special alignment techniques with most modern algorithms which are specific to underwater missions. We have used most modern computing and actuating systems. The missile has a two-stage booster, with one being employed underwater and the other above the surface. The underwater dynamics are totally different from the aerodynamic environment. Here the hydro-dynamics come into the picture and many factors like water pressure, wave speed, direction and many more have to be taken into account, sources said.

The K-15 missile is ballistic, but travels through the atmosphere all through the mission. It is controlled and guided all through by onboard guidance computer system. The missile now enters probably its most-critical phase, when it will be integrated with Indias first home-grown N-powered submarine INS Arihant, which is warming up for its maiden sea-acceptance trials.

Though we have more trials on the naval platform, the missile will still get into the production mode. *Once the Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System goes live next year, all our future missions will have pin-point navigation support,* sources said.

Speaking from Hyderabad, Defence Research Development Laboratory (DRDL) Director and K-15 Programme Director A K Chakrabarty said his team had a challenging job on hand.

When you execute underwater missions, the rules of the game changes. While launching the missile (from a submarine) nothing should happen to the platform, considering its a manned one. Hence, it was a huge challenge to our designers, Chakrabarty said.

Over 200 scientists and officers from five DRDO labs, including DRDL (Hyderabad), Research Centre Imarat (Hyderabad), Advanced System Laboratory (Hyderabad), R&D Engineers (Pune) and Interim Test Range (Balasore) are involved in the K-15 project.
K-15 SLBM a beast loaded with gen-next tech: Scientists - The New Indian Express

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## S-DUCT

INS arihant might enter service in the 1H2013.


> Defense Minister A.K. Antony told India&#8217;s parliament last May that Arihant might enter service in the first half of 2013.
> 
> This capability would complete India&#8217;s nuclear triad, making the country capable of launching missiles from air, land and sea. The triad&#8217;s other elements are the Agni missile with a range up to 3,106 mi., and the Mirage-2000, Su-30MKI and MiG-29 fighter


India Flies Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missile

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## samlove

INS Arihant, Indias N-powered submarine, to be operational this year end ,will go critical in 2-3 weeks

In a big step towards securing Indias nuclear deterrence capabilities, the reactor on board the indigenously built nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant is set to become operational within three weeks. The submarine, which is over 100 metres long, has been undergoing trials in Visakhapatnam for the last three years .

Dr VK Saraswat, the chief of the Defence Research and Development Organisation or DRDO, shared these exclusive details with NDTV. He said that once the Indian-made enriched uranium nuclear reactor  which has been in development for two decades  becomes operational, INS Arihant will be ready for sea-trials and will subsequently be commissioned.

The induction of INS Arihant into the Indian Navys fleet will complete the crucial link in Indias nuclear triad  the ability to fire nuclear weapons from land, air and sea. So far, the US, Russia, France, China, and the UK have the capability to launch a submarine-based ballistic missile.

Though this comes as good news for Indias defence capabilities, there is some concern over the overall strength of Indias submarine fleet. India has 14 conventional submarines that run on either battery or diesel and are aging and outdated. Each of them will have completed the standard life-span of 25 years by 2017.


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## thesolar65

Great News!! After a long time. Building a Nuclear Sub which is more complicated than LCA and that too at the first attempt is a great achievement. It will give us a chance to give a bloody nose to our adversaries (i.e 2nd strike capability). IAF should learn from IN.


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## Beerbal

thesolar65 said:


> Great News!! After a long time. Building a Nuclear Sub which is more complicated than LCA and that too at the first attempt is a great achievement. It will give us a chance to give a bloody nose to our adversaries (i.e 2nd strike capability). IAF should learn from IN.





Now you know why Gorshakov cost higher...


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## Azazel

*INS Arihant reactor to be made critical next week*

NEW DELHI: Moving towards completing its nuclear triad, India will activate the atomic reactor on-board the indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant next week paving way for its operational deployment by the Navy soon. 

"We are gearing up for the sea trials of Arihant," DRDO chief V K Saraswat said today at an award function here. 

"The nuclear reactor on-board the INS Arihant would be made critical (activated) in first week of June," sources said on the development of the nuclear submarine. 

Nuclear triad is the ability to fire nuclear-tipped missiles from land, air and sea. After the nuclear reactor is activated, the agencies concerned can work towards readying the warship for operational deployments soon. 

INS Arihant has been undergoing trials at Navy's key submarine base in Vishakhapatnam and would be launched for sea trials after the nuclear reactor goes critical. 

The DRDO has also readied a medium-range nuclear missile BO-5 for being deployed on the Arihant and its last developmental trial was held on January 27 off the coast of Vishakhapatnam. 

The nuclear submarine will help India achieve the capability of going into high seas without the need to surface the vessel for long durations. 

Conventional diesel-electric submarines have to come up on surface at regular intervals for charging the cells of the vessel.

INS Arihant reactor to be made critical next week - The Economic Times

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## faithfulguy

So has Arihant's reactors gone critical yet?


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## SR-91

> faithfulguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So has Arihant's reactors gone critical yet?
Click to expand...


Find out from your defense minister


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## cirr

It will delayed&#65292;delayed and delayed again.


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## kurup

Indian nuclear submarine INS Arihant features environment friendly water mist fire suppressants

New Delhi: INS Arihant, the Indian nuclear submarine features Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) made water mist fire suppressant instead of the ozone depleting Halons. CFEES (Centre for Fire, Environment & Explosive Safety), a DRDO unit has designed and tested generation of water mist to fight pool fires. A water mist fire suppression system generates water droplets to sustain fire sprinkler system with the help of nozzles.

The DRDO technology was validated for INS Arihant submarine in real scale 590 m3 cylindrical submarine fire simulation chamber. The simulation chamber was simulated as nuclear submarine compartment having four decks.

The pool fire and spray fire different heat release rate was created inside the chamber and suppressed with water mist system having internally mixed atomizer as mist generator. The validation was successfully carried out as per IMO Circ 1165.

The technology has been accepted by Indian Nuclear submarine program, the Advanced Technology Vessel program (ATVP), for induction in S3 and S4 submarines as a replacement to Halons.


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## cirr

Still hasn't gone critical&#65311;


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## cirr

Our loquacious Indian friends have been unusually quiet on this front&#65311;

So I will ask again&#65306;has the reactor in Arihant gone critical&#65311;&#65311;&#65311;


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## Beast

cirr said:


> Our loquacious Indian friends have been unusually quiet on this front&#65311;
> 
> So I will ask again&#65306;has the reactor in Arihant gone critical&#65311;&#65311;&#65311;



It will be same like the case for INS Kolkata. So much talk of sea trial but no photo or real data to back all those up!


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## SR-91

Beast said:


> It will be same like the case for INS Kolkata. *So much talk of sea trial but no photo or real data to back all those up*!



AHHHHH!!!
You just opened a can of worms.
Real Data....Can u provide *real data* for any of chinese BLACK PROJECTS???? EEFF that, can u give us real data for *ANY *of your projects....


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## cirr

SR-91 said:


> AHHHHH!!!
> You just opened a can of worms.
> Real Data....Can u provide *real data* for any of chinese BLACK PROJECTS???? EEFF that, can u give us real data for *ANY *of your projects....



Cut the crap and answer my question&#65306;

Has the reactor onboard Arihant gone CRITICAL&#65311;

The whole Indian nation was led to believe that the &#8221;big time&#8220; was in June&#65311;



Beast said:


> It will be same like the case for INS Kolkata. So much talk of sea trial but no photo or real data to back all those up!



Our friends would need luck to see those ships in IN colours in 2018&#12290;

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## Beast

SR-91 said:


> AHHHHH!!!
> You just opened a can of worms.
> Real Data....Can u provide *real data* for any of chinese BLACK PROJECTS???? EEFF that, can u give us real data for *ANY *of your projects....



At least we have video and photo to back up those project that they do fly and its real....






INS Kolkata or INS Arihant on sea trial?









You mean like that is called 'Sea Trial"


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## SR-91

> cirr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cut the crap and answer my question&#65306;
> 
> Has the reactor onboard Arihant gone CRITICAL&#65311;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ohhhh,, now its crap,when it come to u...No pal, CRAP is what comes out of your mouth
> 
> Arihant is currently patrolling south china sea..
Click to expand...


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## Beast

SR-91 said:


> Ohhhh,, now its crap,when it come to u...No pal, CRAP is what comes out of your mouth
> 
> Arihant is currently patrolling south china sea..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian bragging at its best. India bragging is even more powerful than INS Arihant and INS Kolkata...
> 
> There is no need to show evident or photo and just crap out of the mouth will get the job done.
Click to expand...


----------



## SR-91

Beast said:


> At least we have video and photo to back up those project that they do fly and its real....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> INS Kolkata or INS Arihant on sea trial?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like that is called 'Sea Trial"



WOW 
Now i know why you guys need to copy and paste everything.

You missed it again, keep looking at this picture every sunday,bet 9am to 5pm,you'll see kolkata class leave for trails and come back. 

T H I S I S A P I C T U R E. same pic from a year ago....things dont move in there....


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## SR-91

> Beast said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SR-91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indian bragging at its best. India bragging is even more powerful than INS Arihant and INS Kolkata...
> 
> There is no need to show evident or photo and j*ust crap out of the mouth will get the job done*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Copy and paste at its best...
> go get your own jokes*
Click to expand...


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## Beast

SR-91 said:


> *Copy and paste at its best...
> go get your own jokes*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you will post some photo of INS Arihant or INS Kolkata on sea trial to rebuke me. So what I say in previous post all stand truth? INS Arihant and INS Kolkata sea trial are all make up by Indians. I bet they are still in shipyard rusting away.
Click to expand...


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## SR-91

I see you are paranoid of Arihant and Kolkata,u should be.But its not the only ships we have.

You wanna hear a joke,China made z10 attack copter...


The Chinese Navy has outsourced its shipbuilding tasks to local toy factories, since they are so cheap, durable, high quality and safe...


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## shuntmaster

Launch of INS Kolkata




Commissioning in 2014

Kolkata class INS Kochi destroyer the 2nd in series of Project 15A is also launched.


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## Beast

shuntmaster said:


> Launch of INS Kolkata
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Commissioning in 2014
> 
> Kolkata class INS Kochi destroyer the 2nd in series of Project 15A is also launched.



Its not fit for sea trial in that stage. No point showing a empty hull.. I want to see INS Arihant or INS Kolkata power by itself. Ready fitted with all the subsystem steaming on the sea. 

All your report about INS Arihant and INS Kolkata on sea trial is as good as the empty hull photo you posted.



SR-91 said:


> I see you are paranoid of Arihant and Kolkata,u should be.But its not the only ships we have.
> 
> You wanna hear a joke,China made z10 attack copter...
> 
> 
> The Chinese Navy has outsourced its shipbuilding tasks to local toy factories, since they are so cheap, durable, high quality and safe...



I know you can't prove anything.... Lost of words? That's all you can say to prove those ship on sea trial. It's not good to tell lie for things you cant do it. I pity those who have taken a ride by those fake report.


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## shuntmaster




----------



## kurup

Beast said:


> It will be same like the case for INS Kolkata. So much talk of sea trial but no photo or real data to back all those up!



Neither is there any video of JL2 . So what is your point .


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## Dandpatta

Gentlemen - let's answer the questions posed by some trollers objectively.

Is the Arihant powered with a reactor AS OF DATE? - knowledgeable replies please.
Is it to be launched any time in the near future - knowledgeable replies please.

It doesn't matter what China has to show or does not have to show. When we know our product is going to be launched, then let's give answers in a manner befitting a sane discussion. 

Chinese trollers - India is not upto your mark. Happy? Now let's wait for the Arihant to be launched and then you can have some cake and champagne from us to enjoy the celebrations when (it is launched - with pictures and perhaps a video to convince you whenever it is released). 

Till then, let's have a healthy respect and a balanced approach to issues like the way your own good forumer "GENESIS" has.


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## Genesis

I have a question nto regarding the carrier, but of India intentions. Since this is asked of China quite a lot, what is India's intentions with these carriers?

Projecting power abroad? How far and to where? To South China sea? Into Mediterranean? Or pacific, Atlantic? Or what country?

Can't be just Indian ocean.

Even with three carriers it's not enough for US other than to MAYBE deter a little bit.

Against China? But with current Chinese tech and numbers we can't really effectively challenge Indian navy within two decades regardless of three or one carrier. 

After two decades, depending on Indian progress, maybe we can effectively contain India in a battle in the Indian oceam, but by then at least one of those carriers will need to be scrapped and a new one needed. 

It can't be India's immediate neighbors or even countries that would have a interest there, since India I would say is the clear second to third power in the Indian ocean for three to five decades. With the wildcard being China and how far China reaches, of course India also has a say.

So what is the purpose of three carriers.

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## Sergi

Genesis said:


> I have a question nto regarding the carrier, but of India intentions. Since this is asked of China quite a lot, what is India's intentions with these carriers?
> 
> Projecting power abroad? How far and to where? To South China sea? Into Mediterranean? Or pacific, Atlantic? Or what country?
> 
> Can't be just Indian ocean.
> 
> Even with three carriers it's not enough for US other than to MAYBE deter a little bit.
> 
> Against China? But with current Chinese tech and numbers we can't really effectively challenge Indian navy within two decades regardless of three or one carrier.
> 
> After two decades, depending on Indian progress, maybe we can effectively contain India in a battle in the Indian oceam, but by then at least one of those carriers will need to be scrapped and a new one needed.
> 
> It can't be India's immediate neighbors or even countries that would have a interest there, since India I would say is the clear second to third power in the Indian ocean for three to five decades. With the wildcard being China and how far China reaches, of course India also has a say.
> 
> So what is the purpose of three carriers.



It would be the first time I see you not trolling and asking 
So I would try to answer you. 


Intensions of the carriers - Indian carriers
- it depends on the doctrine of operations eg the US carriers are made to porject force anywhere in the world. However Indian doctrine is safe gaurd its interests in IOR. Indian carrier force backed by our geographical location advantage can chock any adversary trying to be smart @ss in IOR 

- IOR is for sure but can do from gulf of aden to malacca 

- You like it or not Chinese Navy cant dominate in IOR and same is true for IN in SCS. Even after two decades and China having 5 CBG cant enter IOR with brute force. If I am not wrong Indian CBG dont have to engage your CBGs just defencive cover and land lauched flankers can deal with anything to mallacca. A&N base and new coastal bases will be key to this. Which are already up and running. 

- You are Chinese ( hoping ) so you will belive what your force said. But if you think rational PLAN is new to this field. You will need 7/10 years to mature CBG operations. Its not something you can mass produce in short time. You need man power - trainned man power. And keep up with technology. Like you said after 2 decades there will be total diffrent scenarios . Can Chinese keep up with new tech ??? India can always get help but thats not the option availble to you  

- 3 carriers is a datance dream. Not before 2025. Idea is one carrier on each coast and one under maintenance. "VIKIDI" and IAC-1 are starting points of new era. IAC-2 will be the one you should look for.

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## Sergi

Dandpatta said:


> Gentlemen - let's answer the questions posed by some trollers objectively.
> 
> Is the Arihant powered with a reactor AS OF DATE? - knowledgeable replies please.
> Is it to be launched any time in the near future - knowledgeable replies please.
> 
> It doesn't matter what China has to show or does not have to show. When we know our product is going to be launched, then let's give answers in a manner befitting a sane discussion.
> 
> Chinese trollers - India is not upto your mark. Happy? Now let's wait for the Arihant to be launched and then you can have some cake and champagne from us to enjoy the celebrations when (it is launched - with pictures and perhaps a video to convince you whenever it is released).
> 
> Till then, let's have a healthy respect and a balanced approach to issues like the way your own good forumer "GENESIS" has.



What good can that bring. He will not believe anything you told him. Thats what he do 
Tell him something he will ask for proof but at the same time he will judge our projects by their photoshop work. Just ignore him

Of course Arihant's reactor has gone critical months ago but since its ( Sub ) still in test phase external power is still on board. 

It is supposed to enter sea trials after monsoon fades a little as sea need to clam for trial. So say August end. Actual SLBM launch will be part of trial and will happen late this years or early next years

GENESIS  you surely don't know the fella  correct name would be Chinese-Dragon


----------



## Dandpatta

I don't want to get into the debate of Genesis having two IDs (as Chinese Dragon and Genesis). What I have seen of him as Genesis is mostly well balanced posts. 

For my own curiosity, I went back to DIF and got some updates on the Arihant and I would concur with Sergi's observations on the reactors going 'critical'.

Thanks Sergi for the responses and hope from now on , the discussions can be about what Arihant is and what it cannot be in trollers eyes.

Cheers mate


----------



## Sergi

Dandpatta said:


> I don't want to get into the debate of Genesis having two IDs (as Chinese Dragon and Genesis). What I have seen of him as Genesis is mostly well balanced posts.
> 
> For my own curiosity, I went back to DIF and got some updates on the Arihant and I would concur with Sergi's observations on the reactors going 'critical'.
> 
> Thanks Sergi for the responses and hope from now on , the discussions can be about what Arihant is and what it cannot be in trollers eyes.
> 
> Cheers mate



Hahahaha your post made me laugh 
- First thing if you are replying me then please use post quoting
- I didnt not said Genesis is chinese dragon  you misunderstood me
- I dont know from where you get his balanced opinion but I dont wana get in to that. All I know is he/she is famous for his trolling. Even few chinese members disowned him
- what I mean was if you need a balanced opnion form a chinese member the correct member should be "Chinese dragon" and very wrong memeber should be Hong Hu 

- I will recomment read some posts of both members and you will understan what i mean if you want to

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## cirr

Has the reactor gone critical&#65311;

Ok&#65292;I will rephrase my question&#65306;

Has the reactor been formally declared &#8220;critical&#8221;&#65311;


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## SR-91

> cirr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has the reactor gone critical&#65311;
> 
> Ok&#65292;I will rephrase my question&#65306;
> 
> Has the reactor been formally declared critical&#65311;
Click to expand...



Arihant current location: Patrolling "SOUTH CHINA SEA".


----------



## AUSTERLITZ

cirr said:


> Has the reactor gone critical&#65311;
> 
> Ok&#65292;I will rephrase my question&#65306;
> 
> Has the reactor been formally declared &#8220;critical&#8221;&#65311;



This is what i got.
'' Arihant&#8217;s PWR has gone critical but HATs will take at least 8 months to complete.''Anyone knows what those initials mean?


----------



## kurup

AUSTERLITZ said:


> This is what i got.
> '' Arihant&#8217;s PWR has gone critical but HATs will take at least 8 months to complete.''Anyone knows what those initials mean?



HAT = Harbor Acceptance Trial .

SAT = Sea Acceptance Trial .


This is confusing . According to latest news , HAT was almost complete and the sub was scheduled for SAT within two months .

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## indiatester

AUSTERLITZ said:


> This is what i got.
> '' Arihant&#8217;s PWR has gone critical but HATs will take at least 8 months to complete.''Anyone knows what those initials mean?



PWR: Pressurized Water Reactor
HATs: Harbour Acceptance Tests.

Now what's my prize?

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## AUSTERLITZ

indiatester said:


> PWR: Pressurized Water Reactor
> HATs: Harbour Acceptance Tests.
> 
> Now what's my prize?



I take your service into memory minion,you may go now.

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## Guynextdoor2

Genesis said:


> I have a question nto regarding the carrier, but of India intentions. Since this is asked of China quite a lot, what is India's intentions with these carriers?
> 
> Projecting power abroad? How far and to where? To South China sea? Into Mediterranean? Or pacific, Atlantic? Or what country?
> 
> Can't be just Indian ocean.
> 
> Even with three carriers it's not enough for US other than to MAYBE deter a little bit.
> 
> Against China? But with current Chinese tech and numbers we can't really effectively challenge Indian navy within two decades regardless of three or one carrier.
> 
> After two decades, depending on Indian progress, maybe we can effectively contain India in a battle in the Indian oceam, but by then at least one of those carriers will need to be scrapped and a new one needed.
> 
> It can't be India's immediate neighbors or even countries that would have a interest there, since India I would say is the clear second to third power in the Indian ocean for three to five decades. With the wildcard being China and how far China reaches, of course India also has a say.
> 
> So what is the purpose of three carriers.



This may be difficult for you to understand but...*THE WORLD DON'T REVOLVE AROUND CHINA*

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## zilahumafazal

yes yuba i am agreed with you


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## mastaan

The PWR is formally declared as critical!!! Nicely done!


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## SRP

*INS Arihant reactor goes critical, submarine to start sea trials soon*







India's first indigenously constructed nuclear powered submarine achieved a key milestone when its atomic reactor was switched on in Visakhapatnam last night. Top naval sources confirmed that the Arihant's reactor had "gone critical". With this, a key milestone in the submarine's 'harbour acceptance trials' have been completed. "We have waited a very long time for this," a senior naval official said.

A nuclear submarine armed with nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles is the third leg of the 'triad' of land, air and sea launched nuclear weapons envisaged by India's nuclear doctrine of 1998. The navy wants the submarine ready for deterrent patrol, or when it can sail out with nuclear weapons, by 2014.

The next key milestone will be when the 6000-tonne Arihant begins its sea trials and when its commanding officer Captain Sanjay Mahendru signals "underway on nuclear power", to mean that the submarine is sailing out self-powered. This is likely to be as early as next month when the monsoons subside.

Nuclear submarines use miniaturised atomic reactors to generate tremendous heat that boils water into saturated steam. This steam runs its submarine's propulsion and generates electricity. It is near-identical to a steam-powered turbine plant, except it uses nuclear energy.

Since its launch in Vizag on 26 July 2009, the Arihant has spent over four years in harbour acceptance trials. Steam from the dockyard was generated and pumped into the submarine to test its major machinery and control systems. With the 80 Megawatt nuclear reactor now switched on, the submarine can generate its own power to test its systems.

The Arihant was launched in Vizag on 26 July 2009. Since then, the ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) has spent over four years in harbor trials that are meant to test whether all its machinery and control systems are functional.

During sea trials, the submarine will test all its parameters: maximum diving depth, speeds and sensors. "It's difficult to put a timeline to these trials because they are event-based and not time-based," says veteran submarine Vice Admiral Arun Kumar Singh (retired). "The crew of the Arihant will have to check off literally hundreds of parameters."

The sea trials will include the submerged test-firing of the 'B-05' ballistic missile. The Arihant can carry 12 of these nuclear-tipped missiles, each of which has a range of 700 km. Sections of a second submarine, to be named Aridaman are already at an advanced stage of outfitting at the Ship Building Centre (SBC) in Vizag. Sources indicate the submarine could be launched by next year. Sections of a third submarine are also under construction at the Larsen & Toubro's Hazira facility. The three SSBNs have been under construction under a secret navy-DRDO-Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) project called the 'Advanced Technology Vessel' (ATV) project. India's strategic plans call for a fleet of five nuclear powered attack submarines (SSN) and five ballistic missile submarines (SSBN), a goal that is unlikely to be achieved before 2025.

INS Arihant reactor goes critical, submarine to start sea trials soon : North, News - India Today

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## Gessler

@cirr

There you are my man (or woman). The reactor is now online (critical).


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## hurt

Gessler said:


> @cirr
> 
> There you are my man (or woman). The reactor is now online (critical).



Plz complete sea trial first,its long way before Commissioned


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## Gessler

hurt said:


> Plz complete sea trial first,its long way before Commissioned





When the hull wasn't ready, you joked about getting it ready first.

When the HATs were underway, you joked about getting it HAT-qualified first.

When it's missiles (K-15) were under development, you joked about getting it to launch from underwater first.

When preparation for SATs was underway, you joked about getting the reactor critical first.

When the reactor went critical, you are now joking about completing SATs first.



It becomes clear now you are trying to guide SBC to fine-tune our first SSBNs - thanks for that, keep
it going.

I'll be seeing the day when a missile is fired off this sub onto Japan and you will certainly throw
a one-liner while the missile is en route "let it land on Japan first".

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## IND151

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...al-1st-indian-n-sub-ready-sea.html?highlight=


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## kaku1

Gessler said:


> Don't worry, we know how to handle our stuff.
> 
> China should be careful while firing it's SLBMs though -
> 
> Chinese SLBM test launch failed (missile fell back and almost sank the submarine)
> 
> It takes a lot more than just copy paste Russian technology to perfect sophisticated weapons
> like SLBMs.
> 
> You cannot afford such dangerous mistakes in wartime - it'll prove very costly.



Just leave that. BTW, did you watch the new IB Arihant video?


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## Gessler

kaku1 said:


> Just leave that. BTW, did you watch the new IB Arihant video?



Nope...has it been uploaded on YT? Post the link here.


----------



## r1MM0n

Reaching a milestone in nuclear technology - The Hindu
INS Arihant reactor goes critical - The Hindu


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## SR-91

> China should be careful while firing it's SLBMs though -
> 
> Chinese SLBM test launch failed (missile fell back and almost sank the submarine)
> 
> It takes a lot more than just copy paste Russian technology to perfect sophisticated weapons
> 
> 
> 
> like SLBMs.
Click to expand...




See what happens when u get use to reverse technology,Even the missiles put on "REVERSE GEAR"

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## kaku1

Gessler said:


> Nope...has it been uploaded on YT? Post the link here.








This is official video. Showing USS Ohio as INS Arihant....lol. GOD, please help our govt.


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## Dandpatta

They (media) often use generics to show pictures if they can't get hold of the real stuff. Mind you , am not defending the useless media of our land but given the very small timeframes that they HAVE TO come up with a report (often within 6 hours as directed by editorial staff), they have to revert to short cuts.

That said, I don't know why they could not use a stock picture of Arihant instead of the Ohhh hi O


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## hurt

Gessler said:


> When the hull wasn't ready, you joked about getting it ready first.
> 
> When the HATs were underway, you joked about getting it HAT-qualified first.
> 
> When it's missiles (K-15) were under development, you joked about getting it to launch from underwater first.
> 
> When preparation for SATs was underway, you joked about getting the reactor critical first.
> 
> When the reactor went critical, you are now joking about completing SATs first.
> 
> 
> 
> It becomes clear now you are trying to guide SBC to fine-tune our first SSBNs - thanks for that, keep
> it going.
> 
> I'll be seeing the day when a missile is fired off this sub onto Japan and you will certainly throw
> a one-liner while the missile is en route "let it land on Japan first".



Come on baby ,fire at Japan plz


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## prandtl

hurt said:


> Come on baby ,fire at Japan plz


 why would we fire at friend country?
i know you are Chinese Mole and if we get hold of you, yea sure we will fire at you.


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## hurt

prandtl said:


> why would we fire at friend country?
> i know you are Chinese Mole and if we get hold of you, yea sure we will fire at you.



Plz ask Gessler.


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## Gessler

hurt said:


> Come on baby ,fire at Japan plz



Yes, because China can't fire at Japan because your SLBMs would sink your own submarine if they
are fired.


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## hurt

Gessler said:


> Yes, because China can't fire at Japan because your SLBMs would sink your own submarine if they
> are fired.


Like Ins sindhurakshak?

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## kbd-raaf

hurt said:


> Like Ins sindhurakshak?



Nah more like the Ming.

Chinese submarine 361 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

EDIT: Pardon me, the above post is in poor taste.

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## Gessler

hurt said:


> Like Ins sindhurakshak?



Ask kbd-raaf


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## hurt

kbd-raaf said:


> Nah more like the Ming.
> 
> Chinese submarine 361 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> EDIT: Pardon me, the above post is in poor taste.



It not shoot sink by missle.

Ins sindhurakshak is the first one in the world

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## Gessler

hurt said:


> It not shoot sink by missle.
> 
> Ins sindhurakshak is the first one in the world



Sindhurakshak did not sink because of missile. It's only a speculation.

An internal fire & explosion sank it, the warhead onboard SLCMs was inactive,
and isn't the cause.


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## hurt

Gessler said:


> Sindhurakshak did not sink because of missile. It's only a speculation.
> 
> An internal fire & explosion sank it, the warhead onboard SLCMs was inactive,
> and isn't the cause.



Who tell you that the warhead onboard SLCMs was inactive?
Ok,it's a body explosion.

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## Gessler

hurt said:


> Who tell you that the warhead onboard SLCMs was inactive?
> Ok,it's a body explosion.



No missile warhead is kept active while the sub is not in combat patrol, that's simple elementary knowledge.

Case in point, no country has faced such a deadly failure with SLBM as China.


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## hurt

Gessler said:


> No missile warhead is kept active while the sub is not in combat patrol, that's simple elementary knowledge.



Built a war ship only need less than 5 years,that's simple elementary knowledge.But...
Indian always create miracles.


Gessler said:


> Case in point, no country has faced such a deadly failure with SLBM as China.



It's only a rumor.

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## Gessler

hurt said:


> It's only a rumor.



Its a rumor only for you. Only China can sink submarines with it's own missiles.


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## hurt

Gessler said:


> Its a rumor only for you. Only China can sink submarines with it's own missiles.



No,the record belong to your Sindhurakshak for ever.
Rip to dead

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## Gessler

hurt said:


> No,the record belong to your Sindhurakshak for ever.
> Rip to dead



No, it only belongs to your SLBM submarine and your Ming forever. 

Infact it was China who taught the world, including India, how to lose submarines.

RIP oppressed chinese peoples.


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## hurt

Gessler said:


> No, it only belongs to your SLBM submarine and your Ming forever.
> 
> Infact it was China who taught the world, including India, how to lose submarines.
> 
> RIP oppressed chinese peoples.


All know that your submarine shoot by your missile.
The name is INS Sindhurakshak.
The number is S63.
Plz tell me the SLBM submarine's name and number.


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## Gessler

hurt said:


> All know that your submarine shoot by your missile.
> The name is INS Sindhurakshak.
> The number is S63.
> Plz tell me the SLBM submarine's name and number.



China -

Submarine class : Type-035AIP (ES5E variant)
NATO designation : Ming III
Type: Conventional diesel-electric
Submarine hull number : No. 361
People killed : 70 people

India -

Submarine class : P363 Varshavyanka/Sindhughosh-class (Type-877EKM variant)
NATO designation : Kilo
Type : Conventional diesel-electric
Submarine hull number : S63
People killed : 18 people

You have much worse accidents. Where is 18 deaths and where is 70 deaths?

Reason for accident -
India : Possibly human error/improper handling of dangerous materials
China : Sailors did not know how to shut down the engine, it used up all the oxygen and sank, the
sailors did not even know how to swim out.

The Chinese Navy did not even know what happended to their submarine until some fisherman told
them about a periscope sticking out 10 days after the incident. If those fishermen did not see this
submarine, PLAN would never have known at all.

*They do not even maintain contact with their submarines and no one bothers to check if a contact
has suddenly been lost.
*

Chinese submarine 361 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As I said, China taught the world how to lose submarines.

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## DEMI GOD

hello sir .... 
i was quite stunned knowing this "According to Xinhua on May 2, 2003, the crippled boat was discovered by Chinese fishermen on April 25, 2003, when they noticed the periscope sticking out. The submarine was then towed initially to Yulin on Hainan Island, and later towed back to the northeast seaport of Dalian. The submarine was drifting for ten days."
it took you guys ten days to know that one of your submarine is sank..moreover it sank in your own waters......
now thats what we called china a miltary superpower........ :p 

hope dis helps you and you stoptrolling in here


hurt said:


> All know that your submarine shoot by your missile.
> The name is INS Sindhurakshak.
> The number is S63.
> Plz tell me the SLBM submarine's name and number.


----------



## hurt

Gessler said:


> China -
> 
> Submarine class : Type-035AIP (ES5E variant)
> NATO designation : Ming III
> Type: Conventional diesel-electric
> Submarine hull number : No. 361
> People killed : 70 people
> 
> India -
> 
> Submarine class : P363 Varshavyanka/Sindhughosh-class (Type-877EKM variant)
> NATO designation : Kilo
> Type : Conventional diesel-electric
> Submarine hull number : S63
> People killed : 18 people
> 
> You have much worse accidents. Where is 18 deaths and where is 70 deaths?
> 
> Reason for accident -
> India : Possibly human error/improper handling of dangerous materials
> China : Sailors did not know how to shut down the engine, it used up all the oxygen and sank, the
> sailors did not even know how to swim out.
> 
> The Chinese Navy did not even know what happended to their submarine until some fisherman told
> them about a periscope sticking out 10 days after the incident. If those fishermen did not see this
> submarine, PLAN would never have known at all.
> 
> *They do not even maintain contact with their submarines and no one bothers to check if a contact
> has suddenly been lost.
> *
> 
> Chinese submarine 361 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> As I said, China taught the world how to lose submarines.



I only want to know the SLBM Sub



DEMI GOD said:


> hello sir ....
> i was quite stunned knowing this "According to Xinhua on May 2, 2003, the crippled boat was discovered by Chinese fishermen on April 25, 2003, when they noticed the periscope sticking out. The submarine was then towed initially to Yulin on Hainan Island, and later towed back to the northeast seaport of Dalian. The submarine was drifting for ten days."
> it took you guys ten days to know that one of your submarine is sank..moreover it sank in your own waters......
> now thats what we called china a miltary superpower........ :p
> 
> hope dis helps you and you stoptrolling in here



Sir ,361 now in service,where are you S63?


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## Gessler

hurt said:


> I only want to know the SLBM Sub



Scared chinese media does not reveal details about such humiliating news.



> Sir ,361 now in service,where are you S63?



Are the 70 dead people also in service?


----------



## hurt

Gessler said:


> Scared chinese media does not reveal details about such humiliating news.



why you know 361?



Gessler said:


> SAre the 70 dead people also in service?


As Martyr forever
It seems less than your dead pilots


----------



## Gessler

hurt said:


> why you know 361?



Fishermen who discovered the sub told Wikipedia. Wikipedia told me.



> It seems less than your dead pilots



If china reveals the real number of dead PLAAF pilots, you will die of shock.

Let's end it here, this thread is not about Air Force.


----------



## hurt

Gessler said:


> Fishermen who discovered the sub told Wikipedia. Wikipedia told me.


Fishermen told Wikipedia 


> According to Xinhua on May 2, 2003


Chinese submarine 361 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Gessler said:


> If china reveals the real number of dead PLAAF pilots, you will die of shock.
> 
> Let's end it here, this thread is not abou
> t Air Forc



The record belong to you too.


----------



## Gessler

hurt said:


> Fishermen told Wikipedia
> 
> Chinese submarine 361 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> The record belong to you too.



Nothing you say can change the fact that more people are dead in China's submarine than in India's submarine.

Deal with it.


----------



## hurt

Gessler said:


> Nothing you say can change the fact that more people are dead in China's submarine than in India's submarine.
> 
> Deal with it.


US,Russian,France &#65292;Britain and China have suffered accidents.
But only indian shoot down by missile of yourself


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## Gessler

hurt said:


> US,Russian,France &#65292;Britain and China have suffered accidents.
> But only indian shoot down by missile of yourself



Does it matter now because 70 chinese are dead even without a missile!

I've said this before, and say it again, the warheads on the missiles were inactive, and
are not the cause of the explosion.


----------



## angeldude13

hurt said:


> US,Russian,France &#65292;Britain and China have suffered accidents.
> But only indian shoot down by missile of yourself



change your name hurt to b@tthurt.
chini b@tthurt trolls are obsessed with india

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## AMCA

Come on Mods. You know this thread is getting out of hands.. Whats the purpose of this being sticky if it aint getting your attention??


----------



## hurt

Gessler said:


> Does it matter now because 70 chinese are dead even without a missile!
> 
> I've said this before, and say it again, the warheads on the missiles were inactive, and
> are not the cause of the explosion.



I've said this before, and say it again , India is not a normal country&#65292;every thing is possible.


----------



## walle

Indian accident - the submarine blew up and the Indians are still scratching their heads on what went wrong.


----------



## Gessler

walle said:


> Indian accident - the submarine blew up and the Indians are still scratching their heads on what went wrong.



Lol, if those fishermen did not report No. 361 submarine, China would *still* be scratching their heads
about what went wrong, even after all these years!

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## RPK



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## indiatester

RPK said:


>


Whats that? Hopefully a huge washing machine and dryer


----------



## RPK

indiatester said:


> Whats that? Hopefully a huge washing machine and dryer



The 80 MWe Pressurised Water Reactor at Kalpakkam, an August 2009 photograph. In the foreground is the pressure hull and behind it is the shield tank containing water. An identical reactor powers INS Arihant.

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## Capt.Popeye

Gessler said:


> Lol, if those fishermen did not report No. 361 submarine, China would *still* be scratching their heads
> about what went wrong, even after all these years!


 
And that would be a _DECADE_ of head-scratching then. Not much would be left to scratch........

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## kurup

captain steel said:


> dont u think bro its to big for a submarine of 111m it should be a miniature model of this???



No , the prototype in Kalpakkam is an exact 1:1 model of the reactor on-board Arihant .

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## kurup

captain steel said:


> ohh so this is the one in which they performed all the offshore tests



Yes , that is a working reactor and all the requisite tests were conducted on this reactor .

PS : What is there to laugh about it ??


----------



## kurup

captain steel said:


> i was tryn to act smart but apne he swall mein phans gya!!!!!!
> 
> *what about the thermal scar of the reactor on sea surface*?????



Well yaar , we have very scarce information about the ATV project . It is closely wrapped around by IN .

Do you think they will release any such sensitive data ??


----------



## Capt.Popeye

captain steel said:


> i was tryn to act smart but apne he swall mein phans gya!!!!!!
> 
> what about the thermal scar of the reactor on sea surface?????


 
WTF is a _thermal scar_?
Something that you papa told you?


----------



## kurup

Capt.Popeye said:


> WTF is a _thermal scar_?
> Something that you papa told you?



I think he meant thermal wake .

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## Capt.Popeye

captain steel said:


> sir as u must be kowing that the arihant class uses pressurized water reactor that uses too much heat to create steam.....when this hot water is disposed into sea water a submarine keeps moving ahead it creates a long trail of warm water behind it when u look at it from a satallite with thermal sensors this line would be visible as a light green to orange coloured line, from which the path can be traced till some km back until the water comes at normal temp of its surrounding......it seems as if u had a fight with someone else aur apne toh humhe mardiya.....and yes these are common terms in engineering, doesnt relate any thing to my father......further i would like to tell u behave like an indian and not like a pakistani this is the big diffrence......
> 
> 
> the terms are somewhat diffrent bro,but the meaning is same protection of our submarine from chinese satallite constillation above the south china sea and pacific ocean......and yes thank u for putting right words into my thinking 'thermal wake' the right term....


 

LOLL, you are quite a _dramebaaz; but that is a factor of young age........_

What you are trying to talk about is a thermal signature, which is associated with all heat sources in the water, even with surface ships.
Can it be hidden:No. It can only be minimised.
In any case subs nuke-powered or conventional can be detected by many ways whether Radar, Magnetic, Chemical or Heat Signature. The only way that a Sub can remain hidden is to dive deeper. Nuke Subs are built to dive deeper than most Subs.


----------



## Capt.Popeye

captain steel said:


> bhai i was not tryin to be dramebazz, but the goal for every submarine is to be stealthy as u know, but yes ships too leave heat signature but for a nuclear submarine or any submarine its as deadly as a depth charge, ships if detected can protect itself but submarine is vulnerable to many factors, for nuclear submarine that to a SSN it needs to maintain its presence in international waters if it gets detected its "GAME OVER" and then "DIVE" "DIVE" "DIVE" to death.......


 

Never mind the smilies and all the dramatic statements..................did you understand what I explained to you?


----------



## PARIKRAMA

Any news on trials or whats going on? its too hush hush.. does anybody has any update on the sub or performance during trials//


----------



## jarves

PARIKRAMA said:


> Any news on trials or whats going on? its too hush hush.. does anybody has any update on the sub or performance during trials//


All trials are complete......
k15 will be tested from Arihant this year......


----------



## PARIKRAMA

jarves said:


> All trials are complete......
> k15 will be tested from Arihant this year......




I doubt that.. u see any platform trials dont get over in 3-6 months.. its a phase wise trial and weapon system engagement and launch comes much afterwards... take a look at LCA.. understand how each sub system is tested and passed before weapon delivery system is checked and then also nt all armaments are checked at one go... u dont expect a K15 launch unless normal torpedoes and other operations are tested and fully verified... 

The reactor performance and abilities has to be tuned in a methodological manner and the output usage and stability post going critical is also phase wise.. just like a work schedule.. 

let us not be fanboys and raise the toast saying everything is done.. i would be rather happy to have a more matured and thoroughly tested system then to just rush and claim we did this and we can do this and that...


@Capt.Popeye : correct me if i am wrong in saying what i said above.. btw can u share some information if u have abt arihant as of now.. 

Also a quick question.. if u have an option of say longer range K4/K5, limited range K15 or say Nirbhay or say supersonic Brahmos, how do assign numbers or configuration of missile setups .. are roles within submarines also there.. say X sub is our long ranged sub so it carries K4.. Y is having very less noise and is having better speed.. so its a fast reacting sub loaded with say brahmos which has limited range but the subs ability lets u go much deeper into hostile territories.. how all this roles are defined and how armaments will differ for say arihant or follow on subs


----------



## Capt.Popeye

PARIKRAMA said:


> I doubt that.. u see any platform trials dont get over in 3-6 months.. its a phase wise trial and weapon system engagement and launch comes much afterwards... take a look at LCA.. understand how each sub system is tested and passed before weapon delivery system is checked and then also nt all armaments are checked at one go... u dont expect a K15 launch unless normal torpedoes and other operations are tested and fully verified...
> 
> The reactor performance and abilities has to be tuned in a methodological manner and the output usage and stability post going critical is also phase wise.. just like a work schedule..
> 
> let us not be fanboys and raise the toast saying everything is done.. i would be rather happy to have a more matured and thoroughly tested system then to just rush and claim we did this and we can do this and that...
> 
> 
> @Capt.Popeye : correct me if i am wrong in saying what i said above.. btw can u share some information if u have abt arihant as of now..
> 
> Also a quick question.. if u have an option of say longer range K4/K5, limited range K15 or say Nirbhay or say supersonic Brahmos, how do assign numbers or configuration of missile setups .. are roles within submarines also there.. say X sub is our long ranged sub so it carries K4.. Y is having very less noise and is having better speed.. so its a fast reacting sub loaded with say brahmos which has limited range but the subs ability lets u go much deeper into hostile territories.. how all this roles are defined and how armaments will differ for say arihant or follow on subs


 

You're correct in the sense that the "Acceptance Trials" have not been completed.
Its just that the Harbor Trials are drawing to a conclusion; however the Sea Trials are still impending.
Apart from that nothing is known about Arihant. Not for nothing it is one of India's most hush-hush projects.


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## trident2010

Eagerly waiting for the K-5 missile firing from this boomer


----------



## kurup

trident2010 said:


> Eagerly waiting for the K-5 missile firing from this boomer



Not anytime soon .

First K15 needs to be tested from submarine . Then K4 pontoon and submarine test .

K5 will have to wait .


----------



## IND151

INS Arihant to undergo sea trials soon | idrw.org


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## kurup

*Post-accident, lens on nuclear submarine projects*







Questions till now were being raised on the lack of proper quality controls, safety audits, accountability and monitoring during construction and refit of conventional warships and submarines after a series of accidents over the last several months. But now, even the construction of nuclear “platforms” is under the scanner.

Both the defence ministry and DRDO downplayed Saturday’s accident at the secretive and well-guarded Ship Building Centre (SBC) at Visakhapatnam, where India’s first three nuclear submarines are being built. “The accident is in no way related to any nuclear-related activity. The submarines are safe and the accident does not adversely affect the project,” the defence ministry said on Sunday.

That may well be the case but even minor accidents connected to the nuclear arena can raise the spectre of nightmarish scenarios. “The level of quality checks and technical oversight has to be much, much higher and stringent for nuclear platforms. A proper inquiry and safety audit is needed in the matter,” said an officer.

A civilian worker of Larsen & Toubro was killed and another two injured when the hatch of a “tank” to be installed in INS Aridhaman — the follow-on submarine to the first one, INS Arihant — blew off during its “hydro-pressure testing” in building number 5 of the SBC on Saturday. “It would have been catastrophic if it had happened inside the submarine,” said the officer.

*The accident comes at a time when the “hull and full form” of INS Aridhaman, designated ‘S-3′ at present, is ready for “launch” into water*. It will also be powered by a miniature 83 mw pressurized light-water reactor like the 6,000-tonne INS Arihant (S-2), whose enriched uranium-fuelled reactor went “critical” on August 10 last year.

The first PWR reactor designed for indigenous nuclear submarines, *dubbed S-1*, is located at the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre at Kalpakkam as a prototype. A third submarine called S-4 is also being built under the secret advanced technology vessel (ATV) project underway with an initial sanction of around Rs 30,000 crore at the SBC.

The long delay in the sea-acceptance trials of INS Arihant, which was “launched” in July 2009, has itself raised eyebrows. *The explanation is that since the submarine’s reactor went critical last August, its self-sustained power was being gradually raised by 5 per cent to 10 per cent at a time in a deliberate and calibrated manner.*

“The pipelines are extensively pressure-tested every time … the leaks detected in the secondary and tertiary systems of the power plant are then rectified. *INS Arihant will head for sea trials, which will take around 18 months and include firing of its K-15 ballistic missiles (750km range), only after its reactor achieves 100 per cent power*,” said another officer.

INS Arihant’s fully operational status is critical to completing India’s long-standing quest for a nuclear weapons triad – the capability to fire nukes from land, air and underwater. But it will become a reality only sometime next year. Till then, India will have to make do with the land-based Agni missiles and fighters jury-rigged to carry nuclear weapons for its deterrence posture.

Post-accident, lens on nuclear submarine projects | idrw.org

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## jarves

@kurup What so you think?? Are we building SSN's??


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## kurup

jarves said:


> @kurup What so you think?? Are we building SSN's??



We will when we complete the development of higher power naval reactors .


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## kurup

*AK Antony asks DRDO, Navy to ensure safety in nuclear assets*






Defence Minister AK Antony has asked the Navy and the DRDO to maintain highest safety standards in the nuclear submarine fleet of the country after the mishap at the site of an under-construction vessel at Vishakhapatnam in which one person was killed.

He has also asked the Department of Defence Production to review the safety standards in all the defence PSUs and shipyards after a mishap late last week in which a commander-rank officer was killed and two people were hospitalised in the Mazagon Docks, Defence Ministry officials said.

The Defence Minister talked to DRDO chief Avinash Chander and Navy’s acting chief Vice Admiral Robin Dhowan on the issue and asked them to ensure observance of Standard Operating Procedures and maintenance of safety standards, they said.

After the mishap at the facility in Eastern Naval Command to build follow-up submarines of the Arihant Class, the DRDO has ordered an inquiry into the incident and asked authorities including the contractors to observe highest safety standards and adhere to the SOPs, they said.

Though the incident did not have any direct impact on the nuclear submarine programme, government has taken it very seriously as it involved nuclear assets, officials said.

The safety departments in the submarines and their construction shipyards are also to be reviewed and strengthened after the mishap, they said.

Meanwhile, after the minister’s instructions, the Department of Defence Production has issued a letter to all the DPSUs, shipyards and Ordnance Factories to review their safety standards and safety structure departments, they said.

The Ministry has also asked the production units under it to review their safety practices and come up with a safety manual for its workers and officials and ensure strict adherence to it

AK Antony asks DRDO, Navy to ensure safety in nuclear assets | idrw.org

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## kurup

*
INS Arihant - 3D Model*

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## kurup



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## kurup



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## kurup

Visit the website to see larger and HD versions of these pictures .


3d arihant class submarine model

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## Robinhood Pandey

@kurup

where are the silos for the Missiles ?

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## kurup

chak de INDIA said:


> @kurup
> 
> where are the silos for the Missiles ?



The modellers must have missed it as there are no clear images of the Arihant silo and it's composition untill now .

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## ejaz007

*India's Sub-Building Facility May Suffer From Loose Admin Controls, Excessive Outsourcing*

NEW DELHI — Even as Indian authorities are saying that the March accident at the building facility of the country’s homemade nuclear submarines was “an industrial accident,” sources in the Indian Navy said lack of a well spelled-out administrative command between different wings at Defense Research Development Organization (DRDO’s) Ship Building Centre (SBC) at Visakhapatnam is leading to poor monitoring of a variety of jobs, the bulk of which are being contracted and later subcontracted.

An employee of domestic, private-sector Larsen & Toubro (L&T) was killed when the lid of a pressure tank to be installed on a follow-up nuclear submarine of the Arihant class, code named S-3, blew off at the facility.

A statement by the Indian Ministry of Defense (MoD) later said, “The accident is in no way related with any nuclear-related activity. The submarines are safe, and the accident does not adversely affect the project activities or the activities of Indian Navy or Defense Research and Development Organization.”

DRDO chief Avinash Chander said mishap was an “industrial accident.” Talking to reporters March 10, he said, “What happened at Visakhapatnam has nothing to do with the Navy. It was an industrial accident.” Other officials at DRDO would not elaborate on what the DRDO chief meant by “industrial accident”.

The Indian Navy source, however, said, “Had a similar accident occurred at any private-sector shipbuilding facility, then the blame would have been put squarely on the private company, implying DRDO should own up to responsibility for the accident, as it involves the nuclear submarine.”

When asked about the administrative setup at the facility, a DRDO official said administrative control of DRDO lies with the Department of Research (R&D) in the Ministry of Defense which is headed by Chander, the scientific advisor to the defense minister who is also the director general of DRDO.

A MoD official denied any confusion in the administrative set up of the DRDO submarine building facility, adding that the nuclear submarine building project named Akansha is being executed by DRDO. However, a MoD source said the prime minister’s office is in charge of the submarine building project.

Since the indigenous nuclear submarine building project, earlier called the Advanced Technology Vehicle (ATV), is labeled secretive, no details are officially known on the definite administrative structure of the project.

DRDO’s nuclear submarine shipbuilding facility at Visakhapatnam was set up 10 years ago and has about 500 DRDO personnel, while the Indian Navy has another 500 personnel there, whose composition is not known.

While the Indian Navy is in charge of operational matters, DRDO is the integrator of the systems and sub-systems acquired from private sources, and its laboratories.

L&T built the hull at the facility, and several other private companies are involved in the project including Tata Power, Walchandnagar Industries and KSB Pumps.

Whatever the explanation given now by authorities to lay blame for the accident, analysts and Indian Navy officials are angry as the accident occurred as part of a string of incidents involving the Indian Navy. Last month, an officer of the Indian Navy died in the Russian-made submarine Sindhuratna, which led to the resignation of Indian Navy Chief Adm. D.K. Joshi. Last year, another Russian-made kilo-class submarine, Sindhurakshak, which had recently been upgraded, was lost in a fire, killing its 18 crewman.

“The approach at defense production facilities can be called careless, and it is time private-sector companies are directly involved in production of weapons and equipment so that the monopoly of state-owned companies which is bogged with bureaucracy is broken,” said defense analyst Nitin Mehta.

India's Sub-Building Facility May Suffer From Loose Admin Controls, Excessive Outsourcing | Defense News | defensenews.com


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## trident2010

Quality control and safety should be top priority.


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## Water Car Engineer

INS ARIHANT HARBOR TRIALS

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## kurup

credit goes to @PARIKRAMA and @Bhasad Singh Mundi for posting these pictures .

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## trident2010

kurup said:


> credit goes to @PARIKRAMA and @Bhasad Singh Mundi for posting these pictures .



Why it is looking old and rusty?


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## Echo_419

kurup said:


> credit goes to @PARIKRAMA and @Bhasad Singh Mundi for posting these pictures .



Why is it looking Old & Rusty 
@sancho & @Dillinger your thoughts


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## thesolar65

kurup said:


> credit goes to @PARIKRAMA and @Bhasad Singh Mundi for posting these pictures .



Just saw it on NDTV.


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## kurup

kurup said:


> credit goes to @PARIKRAMA and @Bhasad Singh Mundi for posting these pictures .



Video reports .....

*English* ..... NDTV Exclusive: This is INS Arihant, First Made-in-India Nuclear Submarine

*Hindi *...... एनडीटीवी एक्सक्लूसिव : आईएनएस अरिहंत की पहली तस्वीरें


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## arp2041

Echo_419 said:


> Why is it looking Old & Rusty
> @sancho & @Dillinger your thoughts



Abhi Asian Paints lagana baki hai.........


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## Echo_419

arp2041 said:


> Abhi Asian Paints lagana baki hai.........



Magar phele Birla wall putty bhi,papadi jam gayi hai waha pe dyaan se dekho


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## IND151

Arihant has dived below “crushing depths” | idrw.org

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## bhangi bava

[quote="I[/quote]
sir could it dive deeper like Russian submarine, i read somewhere they can go more than 600 meter due to their advance hull design


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## skynet



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## kurup



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## RISING SUN

bhangi bava said:


> I[/quote]
> sir could it dive deeper like Russian submarine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its wrong actually. Ours is 1.5 layered hull like borai class if I m correct. Result is more speed n protection. Enchoic tiles we r using but not sure abt turbo jet propulsion. Our sound quitening techs are not per with Russian ones. It has borrowed the tech from both Akula n Borai class subs. Crew system is quite likely Akula only.
Click to expand...


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## MokshaVimukthi

kurup said:


>



Mama Mia ..........THAT gives Perspective.

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## IND151

kurup said:


>






The difference between size of Chakra and Arihant is not much, which means either the CGIs are not right or there is more than what meets the eye when it comes to Arihant.


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## MokshaVimukthi

IND151 said:


> The difference between size of Chakra and Arihant is not much, which means either the CGIs are not right or there is more than what meets the eye when it comes to Arihant.



Look at the width, not the length. You will see the difference.


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## IND151

MokshaVimukthi said:


> Look at the width, not the length. You will see the difference.



THe CGIs dont show width, kindly post CGIs or sources which do so.


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## MokshaVimukthi

IND151 said:


> THe CGIs dont show width, kindly post CGIs or sources which do so.



LOL. For a cylinder lying horizontally the width is the same as the height ....... does that help ?


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## IND151

MokshaVimukthi said:


> LOL. For a cylinder lying horizontally the width is the same as the height ....... does that help ?



But subs are not cylinders and are not completly round.



> They are not square because the flat front surface would present a HUGE resistance to motion. *They aren't round , either, except maybe submersibles, they are shaped to minimize the power it takes to push 'em thru the water *
> By the way, submarines are like rockets in that they both move thru a fluid, either water or air. The first rocket scientists figured that the rockets had to 'cut' the air at high speed, so they designed pointy noses on them (look at some pix of old rockets from like the 1940's, the V2 for ex.,) ...oops, later experiments and analysis showed that a blunt round nose worked better...same for subs.
> 
> Shows how much those smarty pants rocket scientists knew.


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## MokshaVimukthi

IND151 said:


> But subs are not cylinders and are not completly round.



Are you TRYING to sound stupid ? most subs ARE cylindrical. Its for the same reasons most ROCKETS are cylindrical. That shape has the least amount of drag. Same goes for shape of civilian passenger aircraft's. 

Your external link talks about the NOSE of the Sub.


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## IND151

MokshaVimukthi said:


> Are you TRYING to sound stupid ? most subs ARE cylindrical. Its for the same reasons most ROCKETS are cylindrical. That shape has the least amount of drag. Same goes for shape of civilian passenger aircraft's.
> 
> Your external link talks about the NOSE of the Sub.



I meant the subs are not exactly round, not all subs.

For example



















This is typhoon class SSBN.

As you can see its not completely round.

I was just suggesting same could be the case with Akula i.e its width may exceed its height (significantly).

@Capt.Popeye @Oscar

INS Arihant : The Complete Discussion | Page 22


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## MokshaVimukthi

IND151 said:


> I meant the subs are not exactly round.
> 
> For example
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is typhoon class SSBN.
> 
> As you can see its not completely round.
> 
> I was just suggesting smae could be the case with Akula i.e its width may exceed its height (significantly more).



Yes, I agree that its never a perfect Cylinder. My point was you can estimate the width based on the height. It would never be significantly more.


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## IND151

MokshaVimukthi said:


> Yes, I agree that its never a perfect Cylinder. My point was you can estimate the width based on the height. It would never be significantly more.



The wiki says beam of INS arihant is 15 M while that of Chakra is 13.5 M, while there length is nearly same. 

One of the figure or both figures are wrong.


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## SQ8

IND151 said:


> I meant the subs are not exactly round, not all subs.
> 
> For example
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is typhoon class SSBN.
> 
> As you can see its not completely round.
> 
> I was just suggesting same could be the case with Akula i.e its width may exceed its height (significantly).
> 
> @Capt.Popeye @Oscar
> 
> INS Arihant : The Complete Discussion | Page 22



The reason these subs are not around is because they use double pressure hulls within that outer hull. Essentially its like a sideways 8.

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## IND151

Oscar said:


> The reason these subs are not around is because they use double pressure hulls within that outer hull. Essentially its like a sideways 8.



I know that Typhoon and many other russian designed subs are double hulled.

That is why I was saying that not all subs are completely round.


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## mehboobkz

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/541185606445830145

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## nik22

Indigenous nuclear powered submarine INS Arihant to head out for sea trials

Sandeep Unnithan New Delhi, Saturday, December 13, 2014





India's quest for a secure seaborne nuclear deterrent is set for a giant stride when its first indigenously constructed nuclear submarine the INS Arihant begins sea trials next week.

Naval sources indicated a casting-off date of Monday, December 15, and preparations are currently underway at the Shipbuilding Centre, Visakhapatnam to ensure a smooth sail out for the 6,000-tonne nuclear powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN).

"It will be a surfaced sortie, but a great milestone nevertheless," naval officials told India Today.

It has been a slow crawl for the Arihant since she was launched at the shipbuilding centre in Vizag on July 26, 2009. It was four years before the next major milestone could be crossed, in August 2013 when the 83MW reactor onboard the submarine went critical.

Navy chief Admiral Robin Dhowan told mediapersons on December 3 that the submarine would commence its sea trials "very soon" and attributed the five-year time lag to the complexity of the platform and its equipment. Sources say the navy chief Admiral Dhowan wanted Prime Minister Narendra Modi to be present at the cast-off, but it failed to materialize because of scheduling reasons.

Naval officials say the sea sortie marks the first in a series of steps-submerged sea trials and weapon firing trials which the submarine will have to cover before she is ready for induction into the navy, a process which could take another year.

The navy plans a fleet of five SSBNs, all of them capable of firing nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles from under the sea. Two more Arihant class submairnes are being fabricated at the SBC in Vizag and are likely to be inducted over the next five years.

India currently operates one nuclear submarine, the INS Chakra (the ex Russian sub 'Nerpa') taken on a ten-year lease from Russia in 2012. One of the items on the agenda of recent summit-level talks between Russian President Putin and Prime Minister Narendra Modi is believed to have been the lease of a second SSN, the unfinished 'Iribis', left unfinished after the breakup of the Soviet Union.

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## Abingdonboy



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## kurup

*INS Arihant coming out of Visakhapatnam harbor for Sea Acceptance Trials *

*



*

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## sathya

Abingdonboy said:


>



why are the people standing over it..

it is nuclear submarine...

undergoing first sea trials


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## kurup

sathya said:


> why are the people standing over it..
> 
> it is nuclear submarine...
> 
> undergoing first sea trials



because they are afraid to enter inside .....


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## Water Car Engineer

sathya said:


> why are the people standing over it..
> 
> it is nuclear submarine...
> 
> undergoing first sea trials



Soon, it will be a walrus.

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## sathya

kurup said:


> because they are afraid to enter inside .....



claustrophobic 

 not entering closed space..

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## Capt.Popeye

sathya said:


> why are the people standing over it..
> 
> it is nuclear submarine...
> 
> undergoing first sea trials



The Men standing on the Hull Casing are the Mooring Party. They will remain there as long as she is manuevering in Harbor waters. Ditto for all Surface Ships in the same conditions.



IND151 said:


> I meant the subs are not exactly round, not all subs.
> 
> For example
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is typhoon class SSBN.
> 
> As you can see its not completely round.
> 
> I was just suggesting same could be the case with Akula i.e its width may exceed its height (significantly).
> 
> @Capt.Popeye @Oscar
> 
> INS Arihant : The Complete Discussion | Page 22



The Hull cross-section is somewhat "ovoid". Partly to accommodate the Double (internal) Hull. But more for Hydrodynamic reasons

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## IND151

Capt.Popeye said:


> The Men standing on the Hull Casing are the Mooring Party. They will remain there as long as she is manuevering in Harbor waters. Ditto for all Surface Ships in the same conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> The Hull cross-section is somewhat "ovoid". Partly to accommodate the Double (internal) Hull. But more for Hydrodynamic reasons



Thanks.


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## CONNAN

*Arihant stirs up the ocean*

Indias first nuclear powered submarine will allow it a credible second strike option and keep out adventurists from its waters.

In June 2012 a nuclear-powered attack submarine of the Russian Navy quietly entered the Gulf of Mexico. Armed with long-range nuclear cruise missiles, the Akula class vessel operated undetected for several weeks and its movement in strategic US waters was only confirmed after it left the area. The silent Akula left a lot of red faces in the American defence establishment in its wake.

In November 2013 Russia launched its advanced stealth diesel-electric _Novorossiysk_. The Project 636 submarine is said to be virtually undetectable when submerged. “Our potential opponents call it the ‘Black Hole’ due to the very low noise emission and visibility of the submarine,” Konstantin Tabachny, the captain of the _Novorossiysk_, told the media. “To be undetectable is the main quality for a submarine. And this whole project really fits its purpose.”

Considering that the Russian scientists and experts behind these stealthy subs played a key role in the development of the Arihant, India’s first SSBN (ship submersible, ballistic missile, nuclear powered) submarine promises to be a potent vessel.

After decades of development, the 367 ft – as long as 10 buses parked end to end – Arihant was finally launched on December 15. It is a measure of how jealously India guards its strategic submarine that when the jet black beauty sailed out of the naval dockyard in Visakhapatnam, the Indian Navy and Indian Air Force deployed their MiG-29K and Su-30 MKI combat jets around the harbour while the Poseidon P-8I maritime surveillance and attack aircraft from the nearby naval base at Arakkonam sanitised the area for any hostile underwater activity. Further, reports India Strategic warships from the Eastern Command provided protective cover.

The excitement in India’s defence establishment is understandable. Like the BrahMos, the Arihant is a rare example of a successful strategic weapon made from scratch within the country. The 6000 tonne submarine will take India to an elite league. According to Richard Sharpe of Jane's Fighting Ships, a nuclear submarine will give India a "colossal advantage" over its neighbours. “Facing a nuclear submarine is a nightmare; it has unlimited endurance and mobility and there's no place for a surface ship to hide,” he writes.

Until now India has blissfully carried on without a credible second strike option. This means if China – or for that matter any other country – launches a surprise first strike and decapitates the country’s land based nuclear missiles and its nuclear armed aircraft, there’s very little India can do except throw in the towel.

Having an SSBN changes the equation. It guarantees a nuclear first strike will not destroy India’s ability to strike back. Lurking at the bottom of the oceans and constantly moving, even a handful of SSBNs can sow doubt in the enemy’s mind that some of India’s sea-launched strategic missiles will be launched in retaliation. The planned fleet of five Arihant class SSBNs will thus complete India’s strategic triad, giving the country’s military the second strike option.

The first Arihant class submarine will carry 12 K-15 ballistic nuclear missiles that can be launched even under ice caps. Tested in 2008, the K-15 will be armed with a nuclear warhead that can be targeted at a distance of 750 km. The low range means the sub will have to venture close to enemy waters before launch. However, a 3,500 km range missile is already in development.

India’s quest for strategic parity with the leading nuclear powers began as early as the 1950s. As noted by Eric Arnett, a researcher at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, “The history and implications of (nuclear powered submarines) for Indian maritime strategy suggest that the US presence in the Indian Ocean was a stronger motivation for the programme.”

The approval of the construction of an SSBN dates back to 1970, but as is usual with Indian defence projects, nothing came off it. The project was revived in 1985 and in 1989 DRDO sought design assistance from former engineers and defence workers of the former Soviet Union. Several Russian naval engineers have been in India since 1991.

By 1996, when India had spent $285.7 million on the nuclear submarine, work on the project came to a crawl because of pressure from the US. The Federation of American Scientists says ASEAN also wanted India to stop work on the ATV as a condition for entry into ASEAN and for India to be invited to future Asia-Europe summits. The European Union was behind the demands put up by ASEAN.

The Russians soon understood the US game plan. By stopping Moscow from selling key technologies to India, the Americans managed to starve Russian industry of much needed funds while at the same time it placed major roadblocks in India’s ability to develop strategic weapons. This not only had the effect of creating a rift between Russia and India, it also allowed the Americans a foot in the door in India’s defence market.

However, with the exit of the pro-American elements from the Kremlin, Russians came back in full strength. While Russian designers assisted in building the vessel, which is based on the Akula class hunter killer submarine, its nuclear-powered 80MW pressurised water reactor was developed by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre with assistance from a design team from Rubin, the Russian submarine-design bureau.

Although the reactor was “designed, fabricated and executed in India” by Indian industry and under the direction of Indian scientists, the chairman of India’s Atomic Energy Commission, Dr Anil Kakodkar, told the media in 2009: “I would also like to thank our Russian colleagues. They have played a very important role as consultants, they have a lot of experience in this so their consultancy has been of great help so that I think we should acknowledge.”

In fact, Russia's contribution has been acknowledged by the Government on a number of occasions, including in 2009 by former prime minister Manmohan Singh. The Russians also helped in building the naval base in Visakhapatnam, where a section of the officers’ mess is named Kremlin.

Russia helped with another significant aspect – crew training. Even as the Arihant’s development was plodding along, India prepared for operating an SSBN by leasing a Charlie class nuclear-powered submarine Chakra from Russia in January 1988. However, bowing to pressure from the US, Moscow refused to extend the lease and the sub returned to Vladivostok in January 1991.

The crew of Arihant is being trained on a brand new 12,000 tonne Akula-II Class submarine. Leased from Russia for 10 years in 2011, the submarine is also named Chakra.

In the 1971 India-Pakistan war, as the Indian Army was thundering down the road to Lahore, the US and British fleets made a threatening pincer against India. While the US Seventh Fleet from Southeast Asia sailed towards Calcutta, a British flotilla from Madagascar steamed towards western India. The Indian Air Force was on alert after receiving intelligence that American warplanes might attack the Indian Army’s communications in the west. However, the Soviet Pacific Fleet sailed into the Indian Ocean and threw a cordon around India, forcing the American and British warships to retreat.

Once a fleet of Arihant boomers start patrolling the waters around India, India can ensure no foreign navy will threaten it again.

Arihant stirs up the ocean | Russia & India Report

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## kurup



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## CONNAN

*The Untold Story of Nuclear Submarine Arihant*
And her Successful ‘Made in India’ Journey
By Commodore Ranjit B Rai (Retd) Published: November 2014 






New Delhi. In August 2013, just before India’s Independence Day, the then Prime Minister Manmohan Singh congratulated the team that made the nuclear submarine Arihant’s nuclear reactor go critical at Vishakapatnam, appropriately calling it a giant step for India’s security with the words:

_“I am delighted to learn that the nuclear propulsion reactor on board INS Arihant, India’s first indigenous nuclear powered submarine, has now achieved criticality. I extend my congratulations to all those associated with this important milestone, particularly the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), the Indian Navy and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). Today’s development represents a giant stride in the progress of our indigenous technological capabilities. It is a testimony to the ability of our scientists, technologists and defence personnel to work together for mastering complex technologies in the service of our nation’s security.”_

This seminal achievement got eclipsed by the media coverage of the reverberations of the unfortunate explosion and sinking of the Kilo class submarine INS Sindhurakshak with 18 deaths in the Naval Dockyard at Mumbai four days later on the August 14 night. Submarine operations call for high safety standards and quality control checks, as failure of a small system or component or a pump can cause heavy costs and damages. Each crew member has to be an all round professional, and physiologically suited for underwater service and hardships, especially in nuclear submarines. In USA, Admiral Hyman D. Rickover, known as the father of nuclear submarines, interviewed every officer and sailor personally for service in nuclear boats, and even rejected Lt Cdr Elmo Zumwalt Jr (Bud) who later became US Navy’s 19th and the youngest Chief of Naval Operations (CNO).

British science fiction writer Sir Arthur Clark, known for co-writing in the 1960s the script for futuristic 2001: A Space Odyssey film and for first proposing connectivity through satellites and computers once said, “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” The statement well applies to miniature nuclear reactors which enable men (and now women) in submarines to safely and comfortably live and operate underwater for months before surfacing. Oxygen is regenerated from sea water. The advantage of a nuclear submarine over conventional submarines is that she can propel underwater for months, the limitation being onboard food supply and human endurance. In the US Navy, which operates nuclear submarines worldwide, crews operate till about three months. There are however two sets of crews, gold and blue, to man and maintain the submarine alternately.

A nuclear submarine is Pearl shaped, with faster speed underwater than on surface. Inertial navigation gadgets, underwater receivers and sonars ensure her safe navigation and communications.

Coded Signals

Coded signals to launch missiles or weapons can be sent to a submarine from the nation’s political nuclear command authority. In India, the Government’s decision for nuclear action will be conveyed through the National Security Adviser (NSA) as extracted from the Prime Minster’s black attaché case of codes, held also by the submarine’s Captain.

The extra low frequencies (ELF) signals are received through trailing antennas, or Blue-Green lasers that can penetrate the sea, or some other secret means. In India’s case, there are some secret locations for this and one new one on the southern coast, called INS Katabomman.

Incidentally in USA, the President’s code box is called the Football, and is always in his easy reach. Nuclear weapons are strategic weapons to deter an attack or to destroy the adversary in case of attack. Indigenous capability is vital in setting up what is called the nuclear triad.

A Real ‘Make in India’ Project

It is to the credit of the Indian Navy planners that they realised this and joined hands with scientists at Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) as early as the 1980s when naval officers were deputed to BARC’s Atomic Training Centre.

Jointly, they began designing miniature nuclear reactors in a classified group code-named the new New Reactor Projects Division, carved out of BARC’s Reactor Engineering Division, with dozens of engineers as the core design team. Work under Dr RP Dastidar, head of the Reactor Group, had already begun and was code-named PRP (Propulsion Recycling Project – land Based) in the late 1970s, after the confidence gained in the Smiling Buddha Peaceful Nuclear Explosion (PNE) test on May 18, 1974.

The US had sent its Enterprise aircraft carrier to support Pakistan during the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War, prompting India to sign a Treaty of Friendship with the erstwhile Soviet Union. Moscow sent a nuclear submarine to the Bay of Bengal. The then Prime Minister, Mrs Indira Gandhi, realised the importance of nuclear submarines and decided to build this capability indigenously.

The nuclear and space programmes are controlled directly by the Prime Minister’s Office; it took time nonetheless due to the political dynamics of the country. Finally, in 1983, she gave her blessings, and funds, to the PRP project and entrusted its execution to Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) Chairman Dr HN Sethna and BARC Director Dr Raja Ramanna, who directed the 1974 PNE test.



The team included Messrs VK Mehra, RB Grover, RS Yadav and S Basu - the current head of BARC - under US and France trained atomic scientist Dr Anil K Anand. In his just published autobiography Second Strike, Dr Anand has included some details of the work by the New Reactor Projects Division; he was a colleague of Dr Anil Kakodkar at BARC. Over the years, Prime Ministers Rajiv Gandhi and AB Vajpayee and Defence Minister George Fernandes lent full support to the project.

The Half Submarine

Dr Anand studied zircaloy joints and tubes and calandria ends in France’s Pressure Water Reactors (PWR) at the Centre Energy Atomique at Scalay near Paris in Section des Advances, for the French EL-4 PWR reactor at Brennilis and learnt the techniques that helped him at BARC. Dr Homi Bhabha, Chairman of India’s Atomic Energy Commission (AEC), was keen for this technology, and the PRP model was used later to build the land based half training nuclear submarine under the classified Advanced technology Vehicle (ATV) Project. Dr Anand’s knowledge was useful.

Dr Anand relates he was interviewed by late Dr Vikarm Sarabhai for the BARC job and he recalls meeting Dr Homi Bhabha.

The near culmination of the submarine project – India’s first nuclear powered nuclear armed submarine Arihant (SSBN) is just about to go for sea trials – is a handsome tribute to the naval planners, atomic scientists, designers and builders. It has taken long but the fact that the submarine project, which includes the vessels, their reactors, some sophisticated onboard systems and nuclear-tipped missiles are just about ready, is a landmark achievement.






Arihant Getting Ready for Sea Trials

INS Arihant, the lead vessel in the series, will sail under the Indian Naval Ensign. There are some checks and rechecks before she sets for the sea, and some time in 2015 or so, she will become the third leg of India’s Triad for nuclear deterrence from the sea, when it will be equipped with DRDO’s underwater SAGARIKA B-05 missile system. Gradually, the range of her missiles will be increased from about 750 to more than 3000 km.

Notably, the current DRDO Chief, Dr Avinash Chander, recently told _*India Strategic*_ that onboard systems and missiles were ready and that their integration would be done as required. The power of the submarine has steadily and gradually been stepped up to check her various systems. Arihant has already cleared all the harbour trials.

Project Challenges

In his book, Dr Anand also mentions his hot love affair in France with an affluent divorcee medical doctor whom he calls Ma Dame (Meera). She was in France from Thailand on a scholarship, and the two lived together in a hotel in the romantic Paris. Later they married, although she was many years his senior.

The BARC team under Dr Anand designed and built the half submarine with a miniature reactor (S-1) for training at the Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (IGCAR) at Kalpakkam. This went critical on November 11, 2003 and operational on September 22, 2006. Its replica is the Arihant’s 80 MW pressured Uranium, U-235 light water reactor. U-235 is enriched uranium.

Arihant has been designated S-2 while the second submarine in the class, Aridhaman, which is also under construction, is designated S-3.



Dates of project execution are detailed in the book. The challenge ashore was to make a dynamo meter to absorb the power which is used in a submarine to power the propeller. No nation easily shares these details and nuclear technologies. The fuel rods and pellets for the reactor and cladding were engineered by Dr Anand from imported Uranium (from Russia) and Indian oxides. Marine reactors are peaceful nuclear facilities, and outside IAEA safeguards. The over Rs 8,000 crore (Approx $ 5 billion over the years) ATV project – as it was dubbed in 1983 – was initiated by late Dr Raja Ramana (PhD in Western music and PhD in Atomic Science, both from UK) with Mrs Gandhi’s encouragement. She tasked the Navy and DRDO to join hands with BARC’S PRP project, and Moscow was approached for help.

The veil of secrecy over the ATV project was first lifted on July 26, 2009 when Mrs Gursharan Kaur, wife of then Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh, ceremoniously unveiled the submarine to the invited guests and media at the Ship Building Centre (SBC), Vishakapatnam, by breaking the customary coconut to name and bless all those who sail in her as INS Arihant.

Arihant was floated out of the dry dock and berthed alongside. No photography or visit to the 6,000 tonne black menacing hull was allowed. In his speech on the occasion, Dr Manmohan Singh thanked all those who had contributed to the project, including the Russian technicians in the presence of the Russian Ambassador Alexander Kadakin.

It is an engineering feat to master light water miniature uranium reactors in confined submarine spaces. Only USA, Russia, France, China and UK with US help have the capability to engineer and manufacture submarines with nuclear reactors and underwater launched nuclear tipped missiles.

Dr Anand reveals that Arihant was assembled and outfitted at the SBC with indigenous and imported equipment in a unique Public Private Partnership (PPP) between BARC, Navy and DRDO with engineering giant Larsen & Toubro (L&T) in a leased shed and dry dock in the segregated part of the large Naval Dockyard in Vishakhapatnam.

The dockyard was in fact built with Soviet help in the 1970s. Soviet Navy Chief Admiral Sergie Gorshkov however regarded the base as unsuitable because of the narrow mouth of the port. He also foresaw future congestion, and offered to build a green-field naval dockyard at Bimplipatam but Mrs Gandhi did not agree, fearing that Soviets would demand basing facilities. (She had kept India away from joining any blocs in the east-west Cold War). Incidentally, the Navy is now building a new green field base, INS Varsha, in the vicinity for exactly the same reasons.

Admiral Gorshkov helped later in leasing nuclear powered INS Chakra to India in 1987 for training Indian naval personnel in operating n-boats. He personally reposed faith in Indian Navy officers and sailors in operating the nuclear submarines.

The Navy set up a Machinery Test Centre (MTC) at Vishakapatnam and the Defence Machinery & Design Establishment at Hyderabad ((DMDE) to pre-test ATV’s components.

The 6,000 tonne submarine houses the computer controlled and homebuilt reactor, which produces steam under pressure to run the single multiple bladed propeller and generators to power equipment from inside the sealed nuclear pressure vessel. The reactor began purring at low power but gradually, it has been increased and operational and safety checks and rechecks done.

Russian Assistance

Russian technicians and Indo-Soviet/ Russian Working Groups have helped the Arihant programme. An Indian naval submarine design group (SDG) which was set up initially for the ATV at Kalpakkam, has given valuable support. The Indian Government has given due credit to Moscow.

Project History

It may be recalled that initially, the public sector Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL) was keen for the project to be set up in Mangalore on India’s west coast. But naval planners and BARC scientists, who wanted L&T on board, convinced the Ministry of Defence (MoD) in favour of Vishakhapatnam, as nuclear facilities with expertise were available at nearby Kalpakkam. There was also some submarine skill available in Vishakhapatnam at the Hindustan Shipyard Ltd and naval dockyard where medium refit of Foxtrot class submarines was done. The Bharat Heavy Plates & Vessels (BHPV), Bharat Heavy Electricals Ltd (BHEL) Tiruchy, Electronics Corporation of India Ltd (ECIL) and Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL), other public sector companies, were also close by, and involved. Tata Power supplied the weapon control console while some pumps were imported and some procured indigenously.

In the PMO, the ATV project was under the stewardship of the Scientific Adviser to the Minister of Defence (SA/MOD) and DRDO head, with naval Project Directors with autonomous powers. Rear Admirals R S Chaudhry trained at IIT Kharagpur, Greenwich and with HDW Germany as the naval architect, engineers Gurmeet Singh and N Nadaph, both trained at BARC, find mention as the naval pioneers who were associated with the project from Day One.

The Project Directors and later Directors General of the ATV projects were Vice Admirals including the late MK (Mickey) Roy, an illustrious French trained Alize Observer from 1984 who was also Dr Rammana’s friend and paying guest roommate in London, followed by Bharat Bhushan till 2000 a UK trained engineering specialist; RN Ganesh, the first Captain of INS Chakra trained at Vladivostok till 2003; Promod Bhasin, a missile specialist electrical officer who had served in UK and Soviet Union and prepared the Styx P-20 missiles for the 1971 war; DSP Verma, and currently; Dinesh Prabhakar.

It was Vice Admiral Bhasin who had the honour to cut steel as Project Director in 1999 on his birthday with the then Navy Chief Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat’s support, who took great interest and visited the project.

It is pertinent to record that USS Nautilus took 16 years from 1944 when it was authorised in 1955 for sea trials and in 1960 to join the fleet, while Russia took 16 years to build its first second generation SSN-093 submarine (1990- 2006). The Arihant achievement must be judged as such, and lauded. The Indian Navy and the nation look forward to the Red Letter Day when the Captain can proudly report to the President, India’s Supreme Commander, ‘Arihant is at sea under nuclear power, Sir’, as US Navy’s first submarine Captain of USS Nautilus did in 1954 and went on to sail under the North Pole undetected.

..:: India Strategic ::. Navy: The Untold Story of Nuclear Submarine Arihant

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## HariPrasad

I have a funny story associated with Arihant.

While commuting with couple of my friends (Ex L & T Employees) to company, I started explaining them about nuclear subs and arihant in particular. They look at each other and laugh at me. Mr xxxxx told me that I was into the fabrication team of INS Arihant and I am the one who had banded the first special steel plate for arihant. yyyyyyy (My other friend) was in welding. Then yyyyyy explained me how the cells were fabricated and shipped to Vizag from Hazira L & T. They were shipped in a cover having Oil Tanker written on it. He told me a lot about fabrication of nuclear reactor parts and rocket body fabrication also. I could understand a little out of that.

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## Black Widow

HariPrasad said:


> I have a funny story associated with Arihant.
> 
> While commuting with couple of my friends (Ex L & T Employees) to company, I started explaining them about nuclear subs and arihant in particular. They look at each other and laugh at me. ******* told me that I was into the fabrication team of INS Arihant and I am the one who had bended the first special steel plate for arihant. ******* (My other friend) was in welding. Then ******** explained me how the cells were fabricated and shipped to Vizag from Hazira L & T. They were shipped in a cover having Oil Tanker written on it. He told me a lot about fabrication of nuclear reactor parts and rocket body fabrication also. I could understand a little out of that.




Please remove the name ... 

yes it was most secrete project ....

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## HariPrasad

Black Widow said:


> Please remove the name ...
> 
> yes it was most secrete project ....




No names. Surname only. OK removed.

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## PARIKRAMA

the good part of the ATV project is its secretive nature.. the less the newsbyte the better.. a surprise element is always awesome.. slowly but surely pvt sector contribution in our def projects are increasing which is a healthy sign. L&T has come a long way in helping this successful transition of project work into pvt sector. they are still upgrading a lot of tech and i see them becoming something in the league of lockheed martin/DCNS type company in near future. Ofcourse not that big scale but L&T has the potential to be the very best in pvt defence sector for decades to come


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## nik22

Does anyone has idea how frequently reactor would need re-fueling and maintenance? The Land reactor that went operational in 2006. Has that required re-fueling yet?


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## CONNAN

*Arihant, bigger, more powerful*
Posted on December 27, 2014 by Bharat Karnad
Compare photographs/videos of a Kilo-class SSK steaming out of harbour and the Arihant SSBN getting out of Vizag base and what do experts notice? In the main that the Arihant-class boat, not surprisingly, is a third longer and bulkier — it is, after all, a “boomer”for god’s sake! — more in the 9,000 tonne plus size than the 6,000 tonne plus, class. Derived from this observation is the logical conclusion that it would have to be driven by a bigger N-power plant than the 80MW-90 MW it’s been credited with. The HEU fueled Arihant reactor seems able to produce around 110 plus Megawatts of power. The bigger size and volume of the hybrid design vessel also means it can carry a larger reload of missiles and other on-board weapons. As to why the navy and GOI have consistently understated these various attributes of a strategic deterrent isn’t at all clear, except that this is the exact opposite tack to the one taken by Beijing and the Chinese Navy, which ballyhoo an armament in their employ even when it has proved all but useless, such as the Xia-class SSBNs that stayed in protected port conditions for most of their life until their decommisioning, now underway.

Arihant, bigger, more powerful | Security Wise

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## CONNAN

Russian Navy B-871 Alrosa is the only Kilo-class sub that uses a pump jet propulsion system instead of a conventional propeller.


Can this be Implemented in our ongoing Arihant class sub project


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## IND151

*Arihant, bigger, more powerful*
Posted on December 27, 2014 by Bharat Karnad

Compare* photographs/videos of a Kilo-class SSK *steaming out of harbour and the Arihant SSBN getting out of Vizag base and what do experts notice? In the main that the Arihant-class boat, not surprisingly, is a third longer and bulkier — it is, after all, a “boomer”for god’s sake! — more in the 9,000 tonne plus size than the 6,000 tonne plus, class. Derived from this observation is the logical conclusion that it would have to be driven by a bigger N-power plant than the 80MW-90 MW it’s been credited with. The HEU fueled Arihant reactor seems able to produce around 110 plus Megawatts of power. The bigger size and volume of the hybrid design vessel also means it can carry a larger reload of missiles and other on-board weapons. As to why the navy and GOI have consistently understated these various attributes of a strategic deterrent isn’t at all clear, except that this is the exact opposite tack to the one taken by Beijing and the Chinese Navy, which ballyhoo an armament in their employ even when it has proved all but useless, such as the Xia-class SSBNs that stayed in protected port conditions for most of their life until their decommisioning, now underway.

Arihant, bigger, more powerful | Security Wise





@Capt.Popeye @sancho @XiNiX

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## PARIKRAMA

Yes it is speculated (as IN would never confirm) that baby arihant is 8-9k tonne and its capability and armament is understated. If true then its awesome. But i am sure we will never know the truth unless IN officially or GOI declares it.

All in all with K4 or may be follow on MIRVed K series, Arihant class can be a big breakthrough force with IN.


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## IND151

PARIKRAMA said:


> *Yes it is speculated (as IN would never confirm) that baby arihant is 8-9k tonne* and its capability and armament is understated. If true then its awesome. But i am sure we will never know the truth unless IN officially or GOI declares it.
> 
> All in all with K4 or may be follow on MIRVed K series, Arihant class can be a big breakthrough force with IN.



In that case it will be able to carry 12 K 4s.

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## PARIKRAMA

Realistically as of now K4s dont give IN solid deterrance or Third strike capability post may be MAD situation. If and when the K series equivalent of A5 in 12-14 meters dimensions with at least 4-6 MIRV capability is inducted and deployed in Arihant series then may be 12 such missiles per sub for a total of 4 such subs would make really a deadly impact.
The reason being A5 equivalent is bcz i believe lurking from waters near Tamilnadu/Srilanka or Lakshadeep or Andaman & Nicobar and launching such 12 missiles with MIRV is a fear inducing factor to any enemies of our country. Especially bcz range is much closer to 8k but operationally may be stated 5-6k.

If i am correct then deployment would always be mix of K15 750kms range and K4 3500 Km range and may be later series K missiles in a single sub. I generally doubt a single sub being loaded with all K4 missiles only alone. In such a case, the long range missile may be at max 4-6 in numbers and thus requires the max range heaviest damage logic.


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## Ind4Ever

> more in the 9,000 tonne plus size than the 6,000 tonne plus, class. Derived from this observation is the logical conclusion that it would have to be driven by a bigger N-power plant than the 80MW-90 MW it’s been credited with. The HEU fueled Arihant reactor seems able to produce around 110 plus Megawatts of power.
> 
> this is the exact opposite tack to the one taken by Beijing andthe Chinese Navy, which ballyhoo an armament in their employ even when it has proved all but useless, such as the Xia-class SSBNs that stayed in protected port conditions for most of their life until their decommisioning, now underway.



WE already hinted by saying new powerful reactors under development for Arihant class subs  Looks like already have one up and running .


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## PARIKRAMA

*Nuclear submarine to rule seas by year-end*







(Photo: Video grab)

*
Visakhapatnam:* *The ‘Sea-Acceptance’ trials of India’s first indigenous nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant are on track and the naval authorities are satisfied with the progress.*

The 6,000-tonne submarine, which is capable of carrying nuclear missiles, is expected to be commissioned and inducted into the Indian Navy’s submarine fleet by the end of this year. Earlier, it was indicated that the commissioning will be done in 2017. However, the sea trials and the commissioning of the submarine have already been delayed by several years. According to the original schedule, the nuclear submarine, which was ceremonially launched on July 26, 2009, was supposed to go for sea trials in 2010 and formally inducted into the Indian Navy by 2011.






*“Sea trails have commenced and they are expected to be completed by this year-end. The submarine is going through all the safety procedures. There are several government agencies, committees and atomic bodies, and the nuclear submarine needs to undergo scrutiny at various levels. Several surface and deep sea dives have already been done. Overall, the submarine is on the right track and it will be commissioned by this year-end. We are taking baby steps in making nuclear submarines and need to take utmost care so that no untoward incident happens,” Eastern Naval Command Commander-in-Chief Vice-Admiral Satish Soni told this correspondent.*

INS Arihant had entered the open sea waters off Vizag coast on December 15 last year, in the presence of defence minister Manohar Parikkar, who kick-started the Sea-Acceptance trials. 

*The launch of INS Arihant’s SATs were kept a secret, due to the sensitivity involved. SATs were taken up after a series of successful Harbour-Acceptance trials at the ship building centre in Vizag over a few months.*

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/1502.../article/nuclear-submarine-rule-seas-year-end

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## Krate M

Govt okays plan for building 6 N-submarines, 7 frigates - Rediff.com India News




The government has cleared the indigenous construction of seven stealth frigates and six nuclear-powered submarines to bolster naval power.


Defence sources said the decision was taken recently by the Cabinet Committee on Security.

The decision to build the six new submarines is part of the 30-year submarine building programme cleared in 1999. The plan is to have 24 submarines in 30 years. The first project was the P75, under which six Scorpene submarines are being built in India.

Another project for six more submarines was cleared by the government last year and this project was titled P75I. The Request for Proposal for the project is likely to be issued in March.

"The government has tweaked the project under which the CCS has taken a decision that the next six submarines would be nuclear-powered, unlike the conventional ones that were envisaged," sources said explaining the recent decision.

They said it was different from the P75I project and was already envisaged when the 30-year project was cleared.

The government has also decided to go ahead with the 'Project-17A' for stealth frigates under which four will be constructed at Mazagon Docks in Mumbai and three at Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers in Kolkata.


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## PARIKRAMA

*INDIA SUBMARINE CAPABILITIES*







The Indian Navy currently operates 14 diesel powered submarines; and one nuclear powered submarine. The nuclear powered Akula-class sub is operated on a ten year lease from the Russian Federation.India's submarine fleet is based at two locations: Visakhapatnam on the east coast and Mumbai on the west coast. An additional west coast base is also being constructed at Karwar; located 650km south of Mumbai. The backbone of the fleet is formed by ten Kilo-class Type 877EM - or Sindhugosh-class - units that are being progressively retrofitted to accommodate the Klub/3M-54E Alfa cruise missile system. India also operates four Shishumar-class Type 209/1500 vessels designed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) in Germany. 

*INS Sindhugosh Kilo Class diesel-electric Submarine*




While the first two vessels from the Shishumar-class were built at HDW, boats three and four were constructed at the Mazagon Dock in Mumbai from packages supplied by HDW. All four of the Shishumars have undergone refit since they were commissioned and together they form the 10th submarine squadron based at Mumbai. The fleet's remaining vessels consist of two aging Foxtrot-class boats, which are currently being used for training purposes. In addition to the 14 active submarines, however, India is in the process of constructing six Scorpène-class boats that are being indigenously built at the Mazagon Dock in Mumbai, under the supervision of French technicians. Indian defense planners have also begun development of the long anticipated indigenously built Arihant-class nuclear powered submarine fleet.

On August 14, 2013, a series of explosions tore through the INS Sindhurakshak, the ninth of India's ten Sindhughosh-class submarines. As a result of the blasts, which were caused by unintentional weapons detonations, a fire broke out onboard, and the submarine sank at its berth. The boat had recently returned from an extensive upgrade in Russia and was docked in Mumbai at the time of the accident. Eighteen sailors perished after being trapped in the submerged hull of the vessel. Official sources have stated that it is "highly unlikely" that the Sindhurakshak will be repaired and returned to service. The accident has increased concerns regarding the state of the Indian Navy's aging submarine fleet. More than half of India's subs have completed 75 percent of their operational lives; while some in operation have exceeded their service life. By 2014-2015, only 9 of the total 14 diesel-electric vessels will be operational, due to necessary overhaul and repair processes.





_India's First Indigenous NUCLEAR SSBN Submarine INS Arihant First indigenous nuclear submarine_

While India discussed the potential of nuclear powered submarines as early as the 1960's, the development of the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) submarine program didn't begin until 1984. In July 2009 India launched its first ATV submarine, the INS Arihant, at the Ship Building Centre in Vishakapatnam. Codenamed S-2, the INS Arihant is currently undergoing sea trials and will subsequently be inducted into the Indian Navy. 

*K-4 is an intermediate-range nuclear-capable submarine-launched ballistic missile*




The _Arihant _is the first of four Arihant-class submarines that will perform a role in India's strategic nuclear deterrent. The second nuclear sub, the INS_Aridhaman_, is also being constructed in Vishakapatnam, but its launch has been marred by significant delays. The final two Arihant class subs, dubbed S-3 and S-4, will be constructed at the shipbuilding center at Vadodara. The vessels are likely to carry 12 Sagarika (K-15) submarine launched ballistic missiles (SLBM) with a range of around 700km. Ultimately, the INS _Arihant_ may carry long range 4 K-4 (3,500km) SLBM's in lieu of the 12 K-15 delivery systems. 

In addition, the INS _Arihant_ will carry torpedoes and submarine launched cruise missiles (SLCM). India's nuclear powered submarine program is under the management and operations (M&O) of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), and the Indian Navy at Visakhapatnam.

The Indian Navy's area of operation includes the Arabian Sea, the Indian Ocean, and the Bay of Bengal. These waters include numerous sea lines of communication (SLOC) chokepoints, such as the Strait of Hormuz, Bab El Mandeb, and the Malacca Straits. Almost 97% of India's foreign trade by volume and 60% of the world's sea-borne trade and energy resources are transported through these strategic bottlenecks. This share of critical global trade is likely to be amplified by the growing energy demands and industrial exports of East and Southeast Asia.

Consequently, one of the Indian Navy's fundamental tasks involves the establishment of sea control to protect its vital SLOCs. It has traditionally paid particular attention to Pakistani Navy developments, as India and Pakistan have had numerous hot and cold conflicts over the years. Gradually, the focus of the Indian Navy is shifting to the Chinese Navy, as acknowledged in the recently publicized Indian Maritime Doctrine. This document reiterates earlier calls for a stronger deterrent capability against foreign intervention by non-littoral navies.

With this in mind, India has been modernizing its fleet and has been continually interested in procuring nuclear attack and diesel submarines, establishing two aircraft carrier groups, and developing new cruise missiles, Indian officials have repeatedly indicated their concerns over China's progress on nuclear submarine construction. Deterrence against non-littoral navies is not limited to China, however. The recent and planned acquisitions of naval vessels by a number of ASEAN nations are also mentioned in the doctrine. In addition, the deployment of a US carrier task force to the Bay of Bengal during the 1971 Indo-Pakistani war is unlikely to have been forgotten. As such, the continued US presence at Diego Garcia and Bahrain may represent a concern to the Indian Navy.

Aside from sea control and denial roles, the Indian Navy executes counter-terrorism, anti-drug trafficking, and anti-piracy operations within its area of interest. These roles are complicated not only by the large amount of shipping traffic, but also by the size of India's exclusive economic zone of 2.02 million square kilometers, to which it seeks to add 1.5 million square kilometers in accordance with international treaties. The aforementioned choke points, in particular, represent attractive targets for potential terrorist attacks. In addition, various territorial disputes with India's neighbors remain unresolved and could lead to renewed tensions. For instance, oil and gas exploration is underway in the Sir Creek Estuary, the boundary of which is debated by Pakistan. Bangladesh and India have also both laid claim to New Moore/Purbasha Island (or South Talpatty as it is known in Bangladesh).

India's ambitions for a sea-based nuclear deterrent were acknowledged in 1998. After executing a number of nuclear tests, the government declared that its future minimum nuclear deterrent (MND)would be based on a triad: a combination of airborne, naval, and land-based platforms. India's maritime doctrine further clarifies this statement by specifically calling for the establishment of a submarine-based MND. The triad could be completed with the successful conclusion of India's ATV program, a lease of nuclear submarines, or perhaps, to a lesser extent with the acquisition of air-independent propulsion (AIP) submarines. India has had experience leasing a nuclear-powered submarine: from 1988 to 1991 it leased a Project 670 Skat (NATO name Charlie I) class nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine from the Soviet Union, the _K-43_ (renamed _Chakra_ while in Indian service).

The reactors were operated by a Soviet crew and the vessel was returned to the Soviet Union. In order to gain further experience operating nuclear submarines, India has begun the ten-year lease of a Russian Project 971 Schuka-B (NATO designation Akula II) class vessel, a deal costing the country an estimated USD 920 million. In preparation for the lease, around 300 Indian personnel underwent training at a special facility in Sosnovy Bor, near St. Petersburg. On April 4, 2012, Defense Minister A K Antony commissioned the K-152 _Nerpa_into the Indian Navy, rechristening it the INS Chakra II. The Chakra II is armed with 300-km Klub missiles, unlike the Russian Navy's Shchuka B submarines, which carry cruise missiles with a striking range of 3,000 km. Recent reports have indicated that Russia has agreed to loan India a second Akula-class nuclear powered submarine. As with the INS Chakra, lease conditions for the second Akula-class sub will only permit India to fire conventional weapon systems.

Given the various tasks and increasing role assigned to the Indian Navy, earlier strategic reviews and the Project 75 procurement plan have allegedly called for the procurement of 24 submarines to "maintain adequate operational force levels." These boats should be comprised of two locally built submarine classes. On October 6, 2005, India signed a contract with France's Armaris (a joint venture between France's DCN and Spain's Navantia, formerly Izar) for six Scorpène-class vessels with an option for an additional six units, to be constructed at the Mazagon Shipyard in Mumbai. Armaris are to provide technical advisers and supply the combat and command systems, underwater sensors and communications.

The six vessels will carry Exocet SM 39 missiles supplied by MBDA. It was initially planned that DCN would deliver the first Scorpene in 2012, with the other vessels to follow over five years. However, complex procurement procedures and a failure to renew contracts have led to significant delays; it is now expected that the first boat will be ready for commissioning no sooner than late 2016. India is reportedly considering the installation of MESMA, the French AIP system, in the last two vessels. New Delhi has also announced plans to issue a tender for six additional submarines. There are several possible contenders for the bid: DCNS with the Scorpène; Germany's HDW with the Type 214; Russia's Rubin Design Bureau with its Amur 1650; and the Spanish shipbuilder Navantia, with the S-80A.

In 2004, Italy's Fincanteri entered a joint venture with Russia's Rubin Naval Design Bureau to develop a new diesel-electric submarine, the s1000, based on the Amur SSK and featuring AIP technology. India was the first country to receive a briefing on the new submarine and it reportedly considered an Italian offer to build six boats for $3.5 billion but there was no subsequent purchase agreement. (_Adapted from NTI)_

*by Admin IDN*

India Submarine Capabilities ~ Indian Defence News


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## kurup

INS Arihant at Vizag harbour ....... You can see another sub inside the pen .... most probably Akula .

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## IND151

*INDIA SUBMARINE CAPABILITIES*







The Indian Navy currently operates 14 diesel powered submarines; and one nuclear powered submarine. The nuclear powered Akula-class sub is operated on a ten year lease from the Russian Federation.India's submarine fleet is based at two locations: Visakhapatnam on the east coast and Mumbai on the west coast. An additional west coast base is also being constructed at Karwar; located 650km south of Mumbai. The backbone of the fleet is formed by ten Kilo-class Type 877EM - or 
Sindhugosh-class - units that are being progressively retrofitted to accommodate the Klub/3M-54E Alfa cruise missile system. India also operates four Shishumar-class Type 209/1500 vessels designed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) in Germany.

*INS Sindhugosh Kilo Class diesel-electric Submarine*




While the first two vessels from the Shishumar-class were built at HDW, boats three and four were constructed at the Mazagon Dock in Mumbai from packages supplied by HDW. All four of the Shishumars have undergone refit since they were commissioned and together they form the 10th submarine squadron based at Mumbai. The fleet's remaining vessels consist of two aging Foxtrot-class boats, which are currently being used for training purposes. In addition to the 14 active submarines, however, India is in the process of constructing six Scorpène-class boats that are being indigenously built at the Mazagon Dock in Mumbai, under the supervision of French technicians. Indian defense planners have also begun development of the long anticipated indigenously built Arihant-class nuclear powered submarine fleet.

On August 14, 2013, a series of explosions tore through the INS Sindhurakshak, the ninth of India's ten Sindhughosh-class submarines. As a result of the blasts, which were caused by unintentional weapons detonations, a fire broke out onboard, and the submarine sank at its berth. The boat had recently returned from an extensive upgrade in Russia and was docked in Mumbai at the time of the accident. Eighteen sailors perished after being trapped in the submerged hull of the vessel. Official sources have stated that it is "highly unlikely" that the Sindhurakshak will be repaired and returned to service. The accident has increased concerns regarding the state of the Indian Navy's aging submarine fleet. More than half of India's subs have completed 75 percent of their operational lives; while some in operation have exceeded their service life. By 2014-2015, only 9 of the total 14 diesel-electric vessels will be operational, due to necessary overhaul and repair processes.





_India's First Indigenous NUCLEAR SSBN Submarine INS Arihant First indigenous nuclear submarine_

While India discussed the potential of nuclear powered submarines as early as the 1960's, the development of the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) submarine program didn't begin until 1984. In July 2009 India launched its first ATV submarine, the INS Arihant, at the Ship Building Centre in Vishakapatnam. Codenamed S-2, the INS Arihant is currently undergoing sea trials and will subsequently be inducted into the Indian Navy.

*K-4 is an intermediate-range nuclear-capable submarine-launched ballistic missile*




The _Arihant _is the first of four Arihant-class submarines that will perform a role in India's strategic nuclear deterrent. The second nuclear sub, the INS_Aridhaman_, is also being constructed in Vishakapatnam, but its launch has been marred by significant delays. The final two Arihant class subs, dubbed S-3 and S-4, will be constructed at the shipbuilding center at Vadodara. The vessels are likely to carry 12 Sagarika (K-15) submarine launched ballistic missiles (SLBM) with a range of around 700km. Ultimately, the INS _Arihant_ may carry long range 4 K-4 (3,500km) SLBM's in lieu of the 12 K-15 delivery systems.

In addition, the INS _Arihant_ will carry torpedoes and submarine launched cruise missiles (SLCM). India's nuclear powered submarine program is under the management and operations (M&O) of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), and the Indian Navy at Visakhapatnam.

The Indian Navy's area of operation includes the Arabian Sea, the Indian Ocean, and the Bay of Bengal. These waters include numerous sea lines of communication (SLOC) chokepoints, such as the Strait of Hormuz, Bab El Mandeb, and the Malacca Straits. Almost 97% of India's foreign trade by volume and 60% of the world's sea-borne trade and energy resources are transported through these strategic bottlenecks. This share of critical global trade is likely to be amplified by the growing energy demands and industrial exports of East and Southeast Asia.

Consequently, one of the Indian Navy's fundamental tasks involves the establishment of sea control to protect its vital SLOCs. It has traditionally paid particular attention to Pakistani Navy developments, as India and Pakistan have had numerous hot and cold conflicts over the years. Gradually, the focus of the Indian Navy is shifting to the Chinese Navy, as acknowledged in the recently publicized Indian Maritime Doctrine. This document reiterates earlier calls for a stronger deterrent capability against foreign intervention by non-littoral navies.

With this in mind, India has been modernizing its fleet and has been continually interested in procuring nuclear attack and diesel submarines, establishing two aircraft carrier groups, and developing new cruise missiles, Indian officials have repeatedly indicated their concerns over China's progress on nuclear submarine construction. Deterrence against non-littoral navies is not limited to China, however. The recent and planned acquisitions of naval vessels by a number of ASEAN nations are also mentioned in the doctrine. In addition, the deployment of a US carrier task force to the Bay of Bengal during the 1971 Indo-Pakistani war is unlikely to have been forgotten. As such, the continued US presence at Diego Garcia and Bahrain may represent a concern to the Indian Navy.

Aside from sea control and denial roles, the Indian Navy executes counter-terrorism, anti-drug trafficking, and anti-piracy operations within its area of interest. These roles are complicated not only by the large amount of shipping traffic, but also by the size of India's exclusive economic zone of 2.02 million square kilometers, to which it seeks to add 1.5 million square kilometers in accordance with international treaties. The aforementioned choke points, in particular, represent attractive targets for potential terrorist attacks. In addition, various territorial disputes with India's neighbors remain unresolved and could lead to renewed tensions. For instance, oil and gas exploration is underway in the Sir Creek Estuary, the boundary of which is debated by Pakistan. Bangladesh and India have also both laid claim to New Moore/Purbasha Island (or South Talpatty as it is known in Bangladesh).

India's ambitions for a sea-based nuclear deterrent were acknowledged in 1998. After executing a number of nuclear tests, the government declared that its future minimum nuclear deterrent (MND)would be based on a triad: a combination of airborne, naval, and land-based platforms. India's maritime doctrine further clarifies this statement by specifically calling for the establishment of a submarine-based MND. The triad could be completed with the successful conclusion of India's ATV program, a lease of nuclear submarines, or perhaps, to a lesser extent with the acquisition of air-independent propulsion (AIP) submarines. India has had experience leasing a nuclear-powered submarine: from 1988 to 1991 it leased a Project 670 Skat (NATO name Charlie I) class nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine from the Soviet Union, the _K-43_ (renamed _Chakra_ while in Indian service).

The reactors were operated by a Soviet crew and the vessel was returned to the Soviet Union. In order to gain further experience operating nuclear submarines, India has begun the ten-year lease of a Russian Project 971 Schuka-B (NATO designation Akula II) class vessel, a deal costing the country an estimated USD 920 million. In preparation for the lease, around 300 Indian personnel underwent training at a special facility in Sosnovy Bor, near St. Petersburg. On April 4, 2012, Defense Minister A K Antony commissioned the K-152 _Nerpa_into the Indian Navy, rechristening it the INS Chakra II. The Chakra II is armed with 300-km Klub missiles, unlike the Russian Navy's Shchuka B submarines, which carry cruise missiles with a striking range of 3,000 km. Recent reports have indicated that Russia has agreed to loan India a second Akula-class nuclear powered submarine. As with the INS Chakra, lease conditions for the second Akula-class sub will only permit India to fire conventional weapon systems.

Given the various tasks and increasing role assigned to the Indian Navy, earlier strategic reviews and the Project 75 procurement plan have allegedly called for the procurement of 24 submarines to "maintain adequate operational force levels." These boats should be comprised of two locally built submarine classes. On October 6, 2005, India signed a contract with France's Armaris (a joint venture between France's DCN and Spain's Navantia, formerly Izar) for six Scorpène-class vessels with an option for an additional six units, to be constructed at the Mazagon Shipyard in Mumbai. Armaris are to provide technical advisers and supply the combat and command systems, underwater sensors and communications.

The six vessels will carry Exocet SM 39 missiles supplied by MBDA. It was initially planned that DCN would deliver the first Scorpene in 2012, with the other vessels to follow over five years. However, complex procurement procedures and a failure to renew contracts have led to significant delays; it is now expected that the first boat will be ready for commissioning no sooner than late 2016. India is reportedly considering the installation of MESMA, the French AIP system, in the last two vessels. New Delhi has also announced plans to issue a tender for six additional submarines. There are several possible contenders for the bid: DCNS with the Scorpène; Germany's HDW with the Type 214; Russia's Rubin Design Bureau with its Amur 1650; and the Spanish shipbuilder Navantia, with the S-80A.

In 2004, Italy's Fincanteri entered a joint venture with Russia's Rubin Naval Design Bureau to develop a new diesel-electric submarine, the s1000, based on the Amur SSK and featuring AIP technology. India was the first country to receive a briefing on the new submarine and it reportedly considered an Italian offer to build six boats for $3.5 billion but there was no subsequent purchase agreement. (_Adapted from NTI)_

*by Admin IDN*

India Submarine Capabilities ~ Indian Defence News










Thanks for info


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## Ind4Ever

PARIKRAMA said:


> *Nuclear submarine to rule seas by year-end*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Photo: Video grab)
> 
> *
> Visakhapatnam:* *The ‘Sea-Acceptance’ trials of India’s first indigenous nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant are on track and the naval authorities are satisfied with the progress.*
> 
> The 6,000-tonne submarine, which is capable of carrying nuclear missiles, is expected to be commissioned and inducted into the Indian Navy’s submarine fleet by the end of this year. Earlier, it was indicated that the commissioning will be done in 2017. However, the sea trials and the commissioning of the submarine have already been delayed by several years. According to the original schedule, the nuclear submarine, which was ceremonially launched on July 26, 2009, was supposed to go for sea trials in 2010 and formally inducted into the Indian Navy by 2011.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *“Sea trails have commenced and they are expected to be completed by this year-end. The submarine is going through all the safety procedures. There are several government agencies, committees and atomic bodies, and the nuclear submarine needs to undergo scrutiny at various levels. Several surface and deep sea dives have already been done. Overall, the submarine is on the right track and it will be commissioned by this year-end. We are taking baby steps in making nuclear submarines and need to take utmost care so that no untoward incident happens,” Eastern Naval Command Commander-in-Chief Vice-Admiral Satish Soni told this correspondent.*
> 
> INS Arihant had entered the open sea waters off Vizag coast on December 15 last year, in the presence of defence minister Manohar Parikkar, who kick-started the Sea-Acceptance trials.
> 
> *The launch of INS Arihant’s SATs were kept a secret, due to the sensitivity involved. SATs were taken up after a series of successful Harbour-Acceptance trials at the ship building centre in Vizag over a few months.*
> 
> Nuclear submarine to rule seas by year-end



Today people will laugh at our submarine fleet strength with 14 diesel electric submarines . Of which 8-9 are operational and others under refit or undergoing repairs . Anyway but in the future people may have to fear . Why ? 

INS Arihant isn't he weakest of its series . From Arihant s 12 K 15 or 4 K4 missile the next 2 will be more capable in fact double the weapons carried . Which will be 24 K 15 or 8 K4 . Now this is something called serious Deterrent ! Any country will love to have this capability. When a SSBN with as many as 12 750+ km range missile and atleast 4 2000+ KM nuclear ballistic missile k4 is waiting somewhere deep inside water just to launch minium 4 T of Nuclear material . It's a fear factor . And upper hand for those who had and have this ability on global stage. And for good strengthened diplomacy. 

And more over these are just a technological demonstrator from old nuclear sub leased by Russia decades ago. So now what is more interesting is its new lease of SSN INS CHAKRA II. Which is just to hunt down enemy submarines and their surface vessels with 300 KM range Russian club missiles . In future too soo far Indians underwater fleet status is about to take a 360 degree turn to form a real SSN which will be created with in the country upto 6 have been planned . No need to have any doubts we will use AKULA-CLASS as our blue print . As we have already have one .Chakra which will be used for this very purpose . And second SSN to be leased will be up for full patrolling duties . 

This not all . IN already planned to expand its SSK with under construction Scorpène-class submarines and new request for procuring 6 advanced submarines with AIP and VLS for Installation of world's most successful dangerous and fastest missile in the world called Brahmos anti ship cruise missile . 

To sum it up on why our enemies who laugh at our present depleted under water capabilities will soon be in fear : 
Plans include:

3 Arihant-class are just a beginning for wide range plan of IN

- *6 Scorpenes for Project-75 Scorpene* (with indigenous DRDO AIP) contracts signed in 2005-2006. Little observable progress since. But first submarine is nearing completion and other subs will be followed by 1 year interval from one another. 

*- 6 Project-75I (for India)* (with AIP and land attack missiles) selection process continued through 2007 to present day for Indian construction SSKs designed in Spain, Russia, France or Germany. Little observable progress. Don't leave Japanese beast. We well be in a option to choose between the best in the world . Which ever gets selected will be able to fire cruise missiles vertical . Both land and anti ship variants.

*- 3 Arihant class SSBNs* (including INS Arihant launched in 2009. Within this class:
= S-1 is the half submarine reactor test rig at Kalpakkam (India's southeast coast, just south of Chennai)
= S-2 is INS Arihant itself (undergoing trials - may never be operational).
= S-3 is INS Aridhaman (under construction at Shipbuilding Centre Vadodara (India's west coast, north of Mumbai) or Shipbuilding Centre Visakhapatnam (east coast) prior to launch perhaps in 2015)
= S-4 no name yet (under construction Shipbuilding Centre Vadodara prior to launch perhaps in 2016) 

Now which will be followed by 

*- 6 (yes 6) SSNs* - to be constructed at Visakhapatnam. Few details, no date milestones. This very old FAS reportindicates India has been interested in building or buying 6 SSNs since the 1950s, with Russian assistance, for fleet protection, mainly against Chinese subs. India financed the completion of INS Chakra (ex Nerpa) (a Russian Akula 2) - is long leasing it - and commissioned it into the Indian Navy in 2012. *Since commissing Chakra has been almost invisable. *It may not be operational but rather a full test model for examination and trials by the India Navy, DRDO and India's nuclear reactor sector. It is likely any Indian built SSN would draw heavily on Akula 2 technology and be built with Russian assistance. 

And this line of production won't stop as next generation SSBN will be planned too . With much advanced and much bigger configuration . 

So when you 14 old but upgraded submarines to the mix or atleast 8 operational by 2025-2030 . Indian submarine fleet will be more capable than many nations in the world . More than enough to have a full blue water navy . Anyways Chinese will have to replace their some 20-30 old submarines some of them are even 1970-80 s . So Indian Navy will be the much feared navy in Asia second to US Pacific fleet. Now both India and chine will be more or less equal on AC battle groups as India as the upper hand on operational experience of Aircraft Carries . 

These new 6+6+6+3 will add much need capacity to defend our Sea Lane. In other word we will dictate terms in IOR region and can throw some stones at the partiality clear muddy water SCS

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## kaku1

kurup said:


> INS Arihant at Vizag harbour ....... You can see another sub inside the pen .... most probably Akula .
> 
> View attachment 197989
> 
> 
> View attachment 197990
> 
> 
> View attachment 197991


I dont think thats Akula.





Why they bring the Akula or INS Arihant to HSL? Any guesses? Second sub? Or possibly this is image of Nov.






There is no white paint in the front.





The white paint clearly seen on the INS Arihant.

@Abingdonboy


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## kurup

kaku1 said:


> I dont think thats Akula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why they bring the Akula or INS Arihant to HSL? Any guesses? Second sub? Or possibly this is image of Nov.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no white paint in the front.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The white paint clearly seen on the INS Arihant.
> 
> @Abingdonboy



Which one are you talking about ??

The one on the right which you have measured is the Arihant .

The one to the left of Arihant , inside the structure must be Akula .

The image is from Jan this year .


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## migflug

SOURCE : THE HINDU






Almost six years ago, in Visakhapatnam, Gursharan Kaur, wife of then Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, cracked a coconut on the hull of India’s first nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN). Subsequently named the INS Arihant or “destroyer of enemies”, the vessel was the result of decades of efforts by India’s nuclear scientists. For many years, bureaucratic languor, technical challenges and chronic difficulties in nuclear reactor miniaturisation appeared to ensure that progress would be painstakingly slow. Indeed, at one stage, it became unclear whether the project would see the light of day.

In August 2013, when the Arihant’s nuclear reactor finally went critical, the event was thus widely hailed, both in India and abroad, as a major technological and symbolic milestone. Currently undergoing sea trials, the Arihant is destined to be the first vessel in a flotilla of up to five indigenously produced SSBNs, and it has been reported that a sister vessel, the INS Aridhaman, is nearing completion. Since the Pokhran-II series of nuclear tests in 1998, the Indian government has repeatedly iterated its desire to attain a credible minimum nuclear deterrent, structured around what nuclear strategists refer to as a triad, that is, a mixture of aircraft, land-based mobile missiles and naval assets. India’s nuclear doctrine states that it is a no-first-use power, and it is in this light that one must view the importance attached to the sea-based leg of its nuclear deterrent.

Indeed, the survivability and overall resiliency of India’s nuclear arsenal has become a growing concern for military planners in New Delhi, particularly as Beijing continues to make rapid advances in missile, space and cyber technology. Nuclear submarines, provided they are sufficiently quiet, are still considered to be the most survivable of nuclear platforms, due to their mobility and discretion. Placing nuclear assets underwater puts them at a safer distance from a crippling first strike. The development of the Arihant and its successors therefore constitutes the next logical step in Delhi’s quest for an assured retaliatory capability.

It is important to note, however, that while the launch of India’s first indigenous SSBN constitutes a great accomplishment, it is also only the first step in what promises to be a long and onerous process. India’s naval nuclear journey has only just begun.Going forward, the Indian navy will face three sets of nuclear challenges. The first set is in the technological domain, as the navy struggles to acquire the capability for continuous at-sea deterrence.

The second set of difficulties will need to be addressed within the navy itself, as its officers begin to grapple with the importance of their service’s new nuclear role. Finally, Indian naval planners will also have to contend with their Pakistani counterparts’ development of what can best be described as a “naval nuclear force-in-being”.

When the Arihant is finally commissioned, it will be fitted with 12 Sagarika K-15 submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs). The Sagarika, however, only has a strike radius of about 750 to 800 km, which many analysts rightly consider inadequate. Indeed, with such a short range, the Arihant could not reach Islamabad, let alone China’s strategic centres. The DRDO is currently working on two longer-range SLBMs: the 3,500-km range K-4, which recently underwent a successful test launch from an underwater pontoon, and the 5,000-km range K-5, which is still in the design phase. According to sources, the Arihant is fitted with four universal tube launchers, which can each carry either three K-15 missiles or one K-4 missile. Observers have raised questions, however, over the compatibility of the K-4’s height with the submarine’s 10.4-m hull. If the length of the K-4 cannot be shortened, the Arihant may need to be retrofitted with a hydrodynamic outer development, or “bump.” Even if the DRDO’s engineers do succeed in squeezing the K-4 aboard, the missile’s range remains somewhat unsatisfactory. It would require India’s nuclear submariners to operate on the northeastern fringes of the Bay of Bengal in order to effectively target China’s major metropolises, rather than within the more sanitised waters abutting India’s eastern seaboard. The K-5 is rumoured to stand at a height of about 12 m, which rules out its deployment aboard the Arihant. The second major technological limitation is that of the Arihant’s nuclear reactor. Reportedly based on first- or second-generation Soviet technology, the 83-megawatt pressurised water reactor has a short refuelling cycle, thus limiting the length of the Arihant’s deterrent patrols.

In short, in order to enjoy an effective sea-based deterrent with regard to China, India will need to deploy larger SSBNs with greater missile carriage capacity and more powerful nuclear reactors. The fourth planned submarine in the series is projected to possess such characteristics, but it may take more than a decade for it to be successfully developed and launched, and even longer for it to be commissioned. While India’s submarine fleet has been taking shape, Delhi has also conducted a series of test firings, starting in 2000, of Dhanush-class short-range ballistic missiles from surface ships. For the time being, however, it appears that the Dhanush programme is merely a stopgap measure until the SSBN fleet comes into full fruition.

Second, history has shown that all newly nuclear navies face some difficult tradeoffs. As India’s SSBN fleet gradually grows in size and importance, the challenge will be to ensure that the navy’s new nuclear role develops alongside, rather than to the detriment of, its conventional missions. As in all nuclear navies, a debate will no doubt unfold within the service

as to how many resources and platforms should be devoted to the ballistic missile submarine fleet’s protection. Tough decisions may need to be made, particularly if India’s underwater environment becomes more contested. India’s nuclear command and control procedures will also almost certainly undergo a revision, as the SLBMs will be canisterised and ready for launch, rather than de-mated.

Finally, India’s naval and nuclear planners will also have to contend with the progressive materialisation of a nuclearised Pakistani navy — albeit one with much less orthodox characteristics and undergirded by a very different nuclear posture. Indeed, Islamabad aims to eventually disperse nuclear-tipped cruise missiles across a variety of naval platforms, ranging from surface ships in the short term to conventional diesel-electric submarines in the long term. Unlike India, Pakistan’s naval nuclear ambitions are fuelled primarily by the sense of a growing conventional imbalance in the maritime domain. By nuclearising — or by appearing to nuclearise — a large portion of their fleet architecture, Pakistani military planners hope to neuter India’s growing naval power, inject ambiguity and acquire escalation dominance in the event of a limited conflict at sea. Since Independence, Indian naval officers have been accustomed to operating within a purely conventional maritime setting. Dealing with such a prospective adversary will no doubt necessitate a fundamental rethinking of the navy’s operational concepts. Perhaps more importantly, it will also require an effort on the part of both countries to further institutionalise the maritime component of their relations so as to ensure that in future, isolated incidents don’t spiral out of control.

_The writer, a nonresident fellow in the South Asia Programme at the Atlantic Council, is author of the report ‘Murky Waters: Naval Nuclear Dynamics in the Indian Ocean’._


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## IND151

I dont think this CGI is right, Arihant looks longer in reality.

Also position of ballast tank in CGI is not right.


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## Ind4Ever

How many torpedoes Arihant can carry ?


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## jarves

Ind4Ever said:


> How many torpedoes Arihant can carry ?


Six 533 mm torpedoes.

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## Ind4Ever

jarves said:


> Six 533 mm torpedoes.


That's That's too low isn't it . How can she defend herself with only 6 Torpedoes . She will be the first target if we have war with China and Pakistan . They want to hunt her down . They will attack from all the sides . For a nuclear submarines less than30 to 40 is unacceptable



jarves said:


> Six 533 mm torpedoes.


And what torpedoes same we using for Scorpions ? Or different one


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## jarves

Ind4Ever said:


> That's That's too low isn't it . How can she defend herself with only 6 Torpedoes . She will be the first target if we have war with China and Pakistan . They want to hunt her down . They will attack from all the sides . For a nuclear submarines less than30 to 40 is unacceptable


This class of SSBN submarines i.e. INS Arihant class will most probably operate in the Indian ocean region where we will be able to defend it very easily.PN navy will have a very hard time even locating it forget about hunting it down since most of there assests will be used to defend themselves from SSN/SSK's which will come together with the carrier battle group with a heavy punch.

As for Chinese navy,I dont think they will risk sending there surface asessts in the Indian ocean atleast not until they have two to three aircraft carriers.Dont forget that we also have a permanent aircraft carrier i.e. Andaman Nicobar Islands.

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## Ind4Ever

jarves said:


> This class of SSBN submarines i.e. INS Arihant class will most probably operate in the Indian ocean region where we will be able to defend it very easily.PN navy will have a very hard time even locating it forget about hunting it down since most of there assests will be used to defend themselves from SSN/SSK's which will come together with the carrier battle group with a heavy punch.
> 
> As for Chinese navy,I dont think they will risk sending there surface asessts in the Indian ocean atleast not until they have two to three aircraft carriers.Dont forget that we also have a permanent aircraft carrier i.e. Andaman Nicobar Islands.



So which torpedoes we have selected ?


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## sudhir007



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## RISING SUN

Ind4Ever said:


> That's That's too low isn't it . How can she defend herself with only 6 Torpedoes . She will be the first target if we have war with China and Pakistan . They want to hunt her down . They will attack from all the sides . For a nuclear submarines less than30 to 40 is unacceptable
> 
> 
> And what torpedoes same we using for Scorpions ? Or different one


Brother that's the no of bow tarpedoe tubes, not the total no of tarpedoes which can be reloaded in tubes while on station.

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## Ind4Ever

RISING SUN said:


> Brother that's the no of bow tarpedoe tubes, not the total no of tarpedoes which can be reloaded in tubes while on station.


Yup brother ! Understood


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## migflug

Indian Navy Chief Admiral RK Dhowan said: “We are extremely satisfied. The project is progressing very well”. He was speaking to the media on the sidelines of a naval aviation seminar.
On being asked if the project was facing any hurdles and whether there could be a definite date for the 6,000-tonne submarine to go on a ‘deterrence patrol’, the Admiral said: “There is no problem with the project. Trials of the Arihant are currently underway, but I cannot give a timeline and say what happens thereafter.”
A nuclear submarine is militarily considered to be one of the most potent second-strike platforms for retaliation to a nuclear strike. India has a no-first-use nuclear policy and a submarine of deterrence patrol can retaliate within seconds while remaining under sea.
During Cold War, the US and USSR kept their submarines on deterrence patrols — ready to fire within seconds of a nuclear strike by the adversary. Unlike conventional vessels, a nuclear-powered submarine does not need to surface for up to nearly two months in contrast to conventional submarines.
Sea trials of the Arihant started in December last year and are expected to last a few more months. The sea trials will eventually include diving trials, followed by undersea firing of nuclear-tipped missiles. The vessel, powered by an 83 Mwe pressurised water reactor, is slated for induction by 2016. Its reactor was developed by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, with assistance from a Russian design team. It uses enriched uranium as fuel and light water as coolant and moderator. The submarine has nearly 60 per cent local content.
Once inducted, it will complete the nuclear triad, which means attaining the capability to fire nuclear missiles from land, air and sea.
On building a second seaborne aircraft carrier, Admiral Dhowan said: “We have done an approach paper on the type of carrier, its propulsion and the aircraft it will carry. The case will be taken up with the Ministry of Defence and thereafter a detailed project report will be prepared
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 74351.html

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## IND151

sudhir007 said:


>



One thing is sure and that is IN will operate at least 3 SSNs in long run.


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## Manindra

IND151 said:


> One thing is sure and that is IN will operate at least 3 SSNs in long run.


Bro, you are on PDF since very long but where are your mind.
Why are you make stupid comments ? to increase post count.
There are 3 SSBN already in construction excluding INS Arihant so total 4 & may be more in next two decades with new advance design.

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## IND151

Manindra said:


> Bro, you are on PDF since very long but where are your mind.
> Why are you make stupid comments ? to increase post count.
> There are 3 SSBN already in construction excluding INS Arihant so total 4 & may be more in next two decades with new advance design.



Read carefully.

I said One thing is sure and that is IN will operate at least 3 SSNs in long run.


IN will get 3 Arihant Class SSBNs and there is news that 3 more SSBNs 
are being planned which will have displacement of 10,000 Ton plus.

So we can assume IN will get 9 Nuke Subs in long run. 

THere are sources which say there are 4 Arihant class subs , some say 3, so I have assumed there are 3 Arihant class SSBNs.

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## Manindra

IND151 said:


> Read carefully.
> 
> I said One thing is sure and that is IN will operate at least 3 SSNs in long run.
> 
> 
> IN will get 3 Arihant Class SSBNs and there is news that 3 more SSBNs
> are being planned which will have displacement of 10,000 Ton plus.
> 
> So we can assume IN will get 9 Nuke Subs in long run.
> 
> THere are sources which say there are 4 Arihant class subs , some say 3, so I have assumed there are 3 Arihant class SSBNs.


There would be 4 SSBN in Arihant class but Plan would be 6 SSBN with IC-SLBM are in long run.


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## kaku1

Manindra said:


> There would be 4 SSBN in Arihant class but Plan would be 6 SSBN with IC-SLBM are in long run.


Nope 3 in Arihant Class.

S2,S3 and S4.


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## IND151

kaku1 said:


> Nope 3 in Arihant Class.
> 
> S2,S3 and S4.



Right.

But some sources say ther are 4 Arihant class subs, so it gets confusing. 

If we both are right, S 5, S 6 , S 7 will be bigger SSBNs having displacemnt of over 10,000 tons.

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## Manindra

kaku1 said:


> Nope 3 in Arihant Class.
> 
> S2,S3 and S4.


If I am not wrong then INS Arihant would be like Technology Demonstrator ( but in service ) & 3 more upgraded SSBN would be constructed.


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## kaku1

IND151 said:


> If we both are right, S 5, S 6 , S 7 will be bigger SSBNs having displacemnt of over 10,000 tons.


Definitely, S5 will be bigger class with 12 tubes.



Manindra said:


> If I am not wrong then INS Arihant would be like Technology Demonstrator ( but in service ) & 3 more upgraded SSBN would be constructed.


You are wrong.


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## Manindra

kaku1 said:


> Definitely, S5 will be bigger class with 12 tubes.
> 
> 
> You are wrong.


May be my bad.
So, in follow up of INS Arihant only 2 SSBN are under construction ?


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## kaku1

Manindra said:


> May be my bad.
> So, in follow up of INS Arihant only 2 SSBN are under construction ?


Yes, and after completion of S5 class, Arihant class would be converted into SSGN with 2-3 Nirbhay in each tube.


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## ni8mare

Atomi Koovat said:


> Hey can anyone tell me how many nuclear submarines are going to be build in arihant class and how many more other class nuclear submarines are issued.

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## kaku1

Atomi Koovat said:


> 4 arihant class, 3 s5 class, 6 ssn class isn't it?
> but in other sources it is written 6 s5 class submarines are to be made.


Its all in thread,,please go on previous pages .


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## Rangila

‘HSL gaining expertise in submarine technologies’ - The Hindu

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## Echo_419

Rangila said:


> ‘HSL gaining expertise in submarine technologies’ - The Hindu



They need to step up their game


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## [Bregs]

*India’s Nuclear Triad in Sights as INS Arihant Preps for First Missile Test*

The indigenously made nuclear submarine – INS Arihant – will fire its first missile, also made in India, this year to formally complete the nuclear triad for India, according to top defence research officials. Arihant will also go for its first deep sea dive soon, giving India the ability to launch a nuclear missile from air, land and sea.

In an exclusive interview to NDTV, the newly appointed Director General of Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO,) Dr S Christopher said that India is in the process of building two more Arihant-class-submarines.

The firing of the indigenously made missile is capable of delivering a nuclear pay load, an important milestone for India’s defence production. It signifies the completion nuclear triad. The missile code named B-05 will be India’s first Submarine launched Ballistic Missile (SLBM).

“If all goes well we will show case this capability in the International Fleet Review (IFR) next January. DRDO is working on the next SLBM code named “K-4″ which will have a much longer range,” Dr Christopher said.

Nuclear submarines are strategic assets and typically stay deep inside the sea ready to launch in case of nuclear strike. This is critical since India follows doctrine of no first use of nuclear weapons.

While Dr Christopher refused to disclose the ranges and pay load carrying capability of either of two SLBMs developed by India, information available in the open domain indicate that the B- 05 can carry a one tonne war head.

In comparison China has five nuclear submarines, Shang Class, who fire the Julang -2 missiles which are believed to have a range of 8000 Km.

India is also likely to carry out a third test for Agni- V this December, the missile has a range of over 5500 kilometres. By perfecting this technology, India will join the elite group of countries that have Inter-Continental Ballistics Missiles (ICBM). About 6 countries claim apart from North Korea claim to have ICBM.

According to Dr Christopher, three successive successful test of Agni- V would clear the decks for the induction of the missile into the military.

India’s Nuclear Triad in Sights as INS Arihant Preps for First Missile Test | idrw.org


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## Hindustani78

Indian Navy keen on fielding indigenous nuclear-powered submarine at international fleet review - The Economic Times

NEW DELHI: As the country gears up for the International Fleet Review (IFR), the Indian Navy is keen to ready the indigenous nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant before the event, scheduled for February 2016. 

INS Arihant, a 6,000-tonne submarine is at present undergoing sea trials and is likely to soon undertake weapon's trials.

While the navy is tightlipped on INS Arihant's participation in the International Fleet Review (IFR), a senior officer, on condition of anonymity, told IANS that efforts are on to get the boat ready before the event. 

The officer, however, added that there will be no compromise with trials as safety is the primary concern.

"We want the submarine to be ready before the IFR. But, at the same time, there cannot be any compromise in the trials. Safety is of paramount importance," the officer said. 

"If it passes through all the trials before February, there will be nothing like it," he said.

INS Arihant is the lead ship of India's Arihant-class of nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines that was launched in 2009.

While it was initially expected to go on sea trials by 2012, this happened only last December. 

Although the trials have been going fine since then, no stone is being left unturned to ensure the vessel is fully battle-ready.

"The trials are so far totally smooth. But there is no scope for mistakes; so we can only try that the boat is ready by year-end," the officer said. 

Asked if INS Arihant will participate in the IFR, the navy chief, Admiral R.K. Dhowan, at a press conference this week, said this was not certain.

Once inducted, the submarine will help the country complete its nuclear triad, giving it the capability to respond to nuclear strikes from sea, land and air-based systems. 

The project is being undertaken under the advanced technology vessel (ATV) programme under the supervision of the Prime Minister's Office (PMO) and involving agencies and establishments such as the DRDO, the Department of Atomic Energy and the Submarine Design Group of the Directorate of Naval Design, besides companies such as L&T.

Its design is based on the Russian Akula-1 class submarine and its 83MW pressurised water reactor has been built with significant Russian assistance. 

While its 100-member crew has been trained by Russian specialists, Indian scientists at the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre have received significant expertise in reducing the size of the reactor to fit it into the submarine's 10 metre diameter hull.

India currently operates the Russian-origin nuclear-powered submarine INS Chakra, which is on a 10-year lease since 2012. 


Nuclear submarines have the capability to stay out in the sea for longer.

Over 50 countries are expected to participate in the International Fleet Review to be held February 4-8, 2016.

Some 90 ships are expected to participate in the review.


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## PARIKRAMA

*Arihant: How Russia helped deliver India’s baby boomer*
26 October 2015 RAKESH KRISHNAN SIMHA
As India’s first nuclear powered submarine prepares for its maiden missile launch, a look at the extent of Russian assistance in the Arihant project.





The first clear image of INS Arihant, taken by NDTV. Source: NDTV snapshot
The India-Russia partnership has resulted in a string of successful defence projects, but none is more strategically important than INS Arihant, India’s first indigenously developed nuclear powered ballistic missile submarine.

The 6000 ton Arihant, which has completed sea trials, is likely to undergo its maiden missile test-firing this month. The test will in all likelihood involve the 700 kilometre range K-15 submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) or the 3,500 kilometre K-4.

If successful, India will finally be able to complete its nuclear triad, giving the country’s strategic planners multiple options if it comes to a nuclear confrontation. A nuclear triad refers to the three components of atomic weapons delivery: strategic bombers, intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) and SLBMs.

Of the three elements of the triad, the SLBMs are considered the most important because nuclear powered ballistic missile submarines – aka SSBN, for ship submersible ballistic nuclear or ‘boomer’ in the colloquial language of seamen – are the hardest to destroy. They give you the ability to retaliate if the enemy destroys your ICBMS or strategic bombers in a surprise attack.

Boomer technology is therefore a closely guarded secret. In fact, in the entire history of nuclear weapons systems, there are only two known instances of one state actively helping another acquire a boomer. In the 1960s the Americans passed on SSBN and SLBM technology to their British cousins as a token of their special relationship. (Strategically, however, it is of no significance because the British fleet is not only tiny but it reportedly cannot fire its missiles without American approval.) The only other instance is Russia providing assistance to India in building the Arihant.

The third leg of the nuclear triad is of great significance to India. If a first strike takes out India’s land-based ballistic nuclear missiles and strategic aviation, then the Indian Navy’s boomers lurking in the ocean depths can launch retaliatory strikes that will render the attacking country unfit for human life.

*False start*

India initiated work on a nuclear powered submarine in 1974 – three years after the 1971 India Pakistan War during which the American aircraft carrier USS Enterprise steamed up the Bay of Bengal and a British fleet sailed towards the direction of Mumbai as a warning to India. In response, Russia despatched nuclear-armed submarines and ships from its Pacific Fleet in Vladivostok to prevent a joint US-British strike on India. The then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was said to have been so impressed by the Russian fleet’s ability to change the course of the war that she ordered the launch of the project.

However, typical of Indian defence projects, the submarine programme never quite achieved traction. Although the navy was involved, the project was from the start under the thumb of the civilian Department of Atomic Energy (DAE). Way in over its head in a project it couldn’t begin to fathom, the DAE failed to come up with a nuclear reactor that could operate on the rough seas.

According to Praful Bidwai, the DAE’s original design of 1975 proved totally unviable and had to be abandoned after about Rs 100 crore (or Rs 1 billion in today’s terms) was spent on it.

“The DAE learnt no lessons from this disaster,” Bidwai says. “Indeed, when a critic with a reactor engineering doctorate, then navy Captain B.K. Subba Rao, voiced his doubts about its design, he was victimised. He was arrested on his way abroad for an academic conference and charged with espionage – an accusation he successfully disproved after long periods in jail.”

By the mid-1980s the project had soaked up as much as Rs 2,500 crore (Rs 25 billion) in research and development costs. Bidwai says the project failed because the concerned agencies couldn’t fabricate high-quality components and equipment, but the constant interference by the civilian bureaucracy certainly took its toll.

*Enter the Russians*

The project was re-launched in 1985 under Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) co-ordination with the codename Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV). With a retired vice admiral in charge, work on a prototype reactor began at the Kalpakkam nuclear power plant.

“But the project was still not getting anywhere,” says V. Koithara in the book Managing India’s Nuclear Forces. “India then sought and got much more substantial Russian help than had been envisaged earlier. The construction of the submarine’s hull began in 1998, and a basically Russian-designed 83 megawatt pressurised-water reactor was fitted in the hull nine years later.”

Ashok Parthasarthi, a former science and technology adviser to the late Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, sums up the extent of Russian assistance: “India's first indigenous nuclear submarine, INS Arihant...would have just been impossible to realise without Russia’s massive all-round consultancy, technology transfer, technical services and training, technical 'know-how' and 'show-how,' design of the submarine as a whole, and above all numerous operational 'tips' based on 50 years of experience in designing, building and operating nuclear submarines.”

According to Bidwai, “Scores of Russian engineers were sent to India to aid the DAE and DRDO....It was the Russians who supplied the vital designs, precision equipment based on their VM-5 reactor, and the technology of miniaturising the reactor.”

And if there were any doubts about the extent of Russian involvement, they were none cast away on July 26, 2009 when 143 Russian engineers, designers and consultants – all participants in the project – attended the boomer’s launch ceremony at Visakhapatnam on the east coast.

*Misguided move?*

As well as Arihant class boomers, the Indian Navy also plans to acquire as many as six nuclear-powered attack submarines or sub surface nuclear (SSN). India is reportedly holding discussions with shipbuilders from France and the US on participating in the SSN project. This seems wrong in so many ways.

Unlike western support, Russian assistance comes with no strings attached. “Although Russian assistance was extended throughout the 25-year designing and building of Arihant, at no time did anyone in the Russian government ever even mention any end-use restriction,” Parthasarthi points out.

This is significant in the backdrop of India’s quest for diversification in defence purchases. Parthasarthi contrasts Russian military sales with American assistance. “And yet, if India were to import some incomparably low-tech electronic warfare equipment from the US, the US government will demand the application of the end user monitoring agreement.”

When choosing a partner for its future nuclear sub fleet, the Navy brass and the political leadership should bear in mind that the US has traditionally been an unreliable partner in almost every area but especially in defence matters.

France, which welched on the $1 billion Mistral deal with Russia, is no better. Where once it pursued an independent foreign policy, Paris’ interests are now closely aligned with those of the US. French armed forces are partnering the US in a range of conflicts in the Middle East.

“If an Indo-Pak war occurs or we conduct nuclear device tests, the NATO government of the foreign supplier will embargo all supplies of spares and technical services, thereby immobilising our imported weapon systems. Only Russia has never applied embargoes on us,” Parthasarthi explains.

Also, India has had the opportunity, which no other country has had, to test drive foreign nuclear submarines. The Indian Navy was able to lease and operate a Charlie class Soviet submarine for three years beginning 1988.

Again, in 2012 India acquired an Akula II class nuclear attack submarine from the Russian Navy, with an option to buy the vessel after the lease expires. Three hundred Indian Navy personnel were trained in Russia for the operation of the submarine, which was renamed Chakra II.

Can you imagine the US, France or Germany offering India such terms?

And finally, costs. India spent Rs 300 billion on the Arihant project, reinventing the n-submarine. Had New Delhi asked for Russian assistance in the 1970s, the Indian Navy would have acquired a boomer at least a decade or two earlier – and for a lot less.

The sticker price for the six new SSNs is projected at Rs 1 trillion. The entire world knows how the French Rafale’s cost kept increasing like an ever expanding balloon, forcing India to cut its order from 126 aircraft to just 36. India’s future nuclear submarine fleet should not face a similar fate.

*SOME KEY AREAS OF RUSSIAN HELP*

*BrahMos:* Russian technical assistance and Indian funding helped develop the world’s fastest cruise missile.

*AKASH:* Russia’s NPO Mashinostroyenia provided crucial assistance in the development of the Akash surface to air missile. The key area was helping DRDO overcome the problem with Akash’s supersonic engine.

*AGNI:* Technical assistance to overcome design and engineering problems in successfully launching and targeting the critically important 3,500 km Agni-3 intermediate range ballistic missile developed by DRDO.
Arihant: How Russia helped deliver India’s baby boomer | Russia & India Report

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## Agent_47

^^ 


PARIKRAMA said:


> According to Bidwai, “Scores of Russian engineers were sent to India to aid the DAE and DRDO....It was the Russians who supplied the vital designs, precision equipment based on their VM-5 reactor, and the technology of miniaturising the reactor.”


I never thought russia will be so vocal about their involvement in the arihant project, let alone comments on help in making the reactor.


PARIKRAMA said:


> As well as Arihant class boomers, the Indian Navy also plans to acquire as many as six nuclear-powered attack submarines or sub surface nuclear (SSN). India is reportedly holding discussions with shipbuilders from France and the US on participating in the SSN project. This seems wrong in so many ways.


This is actually showing their frustration.

End of the we will be going for a russian SSN design for sure. Where else you can jump start to the current world sophistication ? 

PS: Russia & India report is a russian mouth piece to promote russian views on india. (or push russian defence exports)

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## PARIKRAMA

Agent_47 said:


> ^^
> 
> I never thought russia will be so vocal about their involvement in the arihant project, let alone comments on help in making the reactor.
> 
> This is actually showing their frustration.
> 
> End of the we will be going for a russian SSN design for sure. Where else you can jump start to the current world sophistication ?
> 
> PS: Russia & India report is a russian mouth piece to promote russian views on india. (or push russian defence exports)


Its clear that in certain domains like 5th gen birds, N Subs and VLR SAMs systems - all these fields Russia does nt want to lose at all. The article had mix of talks against France, Germany USA all with the tone that Russia provides no tapes over their product whereas all other country does.

Its true Russians contributed a lot in our program. And in a way we should acknowledge that.

Ya RBTH is pro russia always. I found this article when i was back searching to see if India got any more tech to change present Arihant 4 silo for missiles to 8 silos and i came across a july 2015 article about a modified Yasen specifically for India. (posted under IN sticky). I am sure the follow on Arihant class subs would be a bit larger to accommodate additional 4 tubes for 8 K4s or K5s(not sure but possible).

SSN deal seems Barracuda is a french sweetened deal with L&T Areva getting that tech.. Again no confirmation.. If L&T does get the blue prints then its reactor may be directly fitting our SSBNs for 8/12 long range K series enabled Boomers..(if we dont want Russian reactors of course) SSNs of course we put that reactor or something similar to even our Chakra (190 MW), we need far more breakthroughs in tech field as such SSNs run at very high speed submerged (35 Knots +) to handle these new challenges. Anyway we do require expertise help, be it russians or french whomsover helps..

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## Agent_47

PARIKRAMA said:


> Its clear that in certain domains like 5th gen birds, N Subs and VLR SAMs systems - all these fields Russia does nt want to lose at all. The article had mix of talks against France, Germany USA all with the tone that Russia provides no tapes over their product whereas all other country does.
> 
> Its true Russians contributed a lot in our program. And in a way we should acknowledge that.
> 
> Ya RBTH is pro russia always. I found this article when i was back searching to see if India got any more tech to change present Arihant 4 silo for missiles to 8 silos and i came across a july 2015 article about a modified Yasen specifically for India. (posted under IN sticky). I am sure the follow on Arihant class subs would be a bit larger to accommodate additional 4 tubes for 8 K4s or K5s(not sure but possible).
> 
> SSN deal seems Barracuda is a french sweetened deal with L&T Areva getting that tech.. Again no confirmation.. If L&T does get the blue prints then its reactor may be directly fitting our SSBNs for 8/12 long range K series enabled Boomers..(if we dont want Russian reactors of course) SSNs of course we put that reactor or something similar to even our Chakra (190 MW), we need far more breakthroughs in tech field as such SSNs run at very high speed submerged (35 Knots +) to handle these new challenges. Anyway we do require expertise help, be it russians or french whomsover helps..


Actually, the article is very correct. West will not help us to make nuclear submarines.
For example Brazil is building two SSN with help of France but only in the design and hull constriction that too they manage to secure with scorpion deal.



> In 2008, Brazil and France signed an agreement to build 4 diesel-electric submarines (SSK), and provide assistance in developing and fielding the non-nuclear parts of 1 nuclear fast attack submarine (SSN). Key specifics, such as the presence or absence of SSK Air Independent Propulsion technologies, have yet to be made public, but the terms of the agreement leave the possibility open.


Brazil & France in Deal for SSKs, SSN

Reactors are closely guarded secrets of any country. It is absurd to expect we can make SSN reactors using a civilian contract. AFAIK International treaties prohibits sharing reactor tech for military use. Thats why i am surprised by Russians comments. According to the articles the arihath reactor is based on the 60's era VM-5 reactor. we need capabilities like russian fourth gen reactors (noise,refuel time etc).

Our SSNs will be definitely Akula/Yaseen based. @Chanakya's_Chant said we have already ordered for a 150MV rector for SSN. That means the it will be smaller like Barracuda. maybe thats why IN is approaching west for design !  less time redesigning.

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## sharma1111

Offtopic:

Indian Akula 2, INS Chakra sailing past yesterday off Kochi.

Chakra (convert-video-online.com).mp4 - Google Drive

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## sudhir007



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## Kickstarter101

Our next nuke sub is about to be launched. I propose this thread be renamed Indian SSBN thread.

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## RISING SUN

Kickstarter101 said:


> Our next nuke sub is about to be launched. I propose this thread be renamed Indian SSBN thread.


It's good to be informed but its better to be knowledgeable. Please don't share any info on strategic project until and unless announced through news channels.

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## Rajaraja Chola

RISING SUN said:


> It's good to be informed but its better to be knowledgeable. Please don't share any info on strategic project until and unless announced through news channels.



welcome back

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## RISING SUN

Rajaraja Chola said:


> welcome back


I am not going anywhere.

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## Kickstarter101

RISING SUN said:


> It's good to be informed but its better to be knowledgeable. Please don't share any info on strategic project until and unless announced through news channels.



Its official news:

*India’s Second Nuclear Submarine INS Aridhaman set for Soft launch in 2016*

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## Rajaraja Chola

RISING SUN said:


> I am not going anywhere.



Missing ur Marathon Ratings

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## RISING SUN

Kickstarter101 said:


> Its official news:
> 
> *India’s Second Nuclear Submarine INS Aridhaman set for Soft launch in 2016*


Please provide the links.


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## Kickstarter101

RISING SUN said:


> Please provide the links.



I cant, but just copy paste that in google, you will see it. Actuallly I just copy pasted the headline. Hence the bold font.


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## PARIKRAMA

Some thing a bit old but posting from another forum...

VERY VERY INTERESTING if you read it










DOVAL screwed NDTV





@Abingdonboy @Levina @ranjeet @kaykay @kurup @MilSpec @anant_s @SR-91

Oh BTW a small update: SOURCE Based

INS Arihant has done a total of 24 missile ejections over 6 different depths. Each of the depth test scenario was repeated to re validate the whole process. Its been doing some good testing quietly....

INS Aridhaman is almost ready for a small launch party.. Expected in Q2 or Q3 this year.. (prolly July)

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## SR-91

PARIKRAMA said:


> Some thing a bit old but posting from another forum...
> 
> VERY VERY INTERESTING if you read it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 287261
> 
> 
> DOVAL screwed NDTV
> View attachment 287260
> 
> 
> @Abingdonboy @Levina @ranjeet @kaykay @kurup @MilSpec @anant_s @SR-91
> 
> Oh BTW a small update: SOURCE Based
> 
> INS Arihant has done a total of 24 missile ejections over 6 different depths. Each of the depth test scenario was repeated to re validate the whole process. Its been doing some good testing quietly....
> 
> INS Aridhaman is almost ready for a small launch party.. Expected in Q2 or Q3 this year.. (prolly July)




Finally someone is here to put a stop on leaking classified information to public.
A law should be passed asap, if any govt official is caught passing classified information to anyone, will be charged under TRAITORS or ESPIONAGE law. Lifetime jail without bail.


@PARIKRAMA bro, that is DOVAL'S phone number up there. I'm gonna call him tonight, any particular question you want me to ask him?

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## Levina

PARIKRAMA said:


> Some thing a bit old but posting from another forum...
> 
> VERY VERY INTERESTING if you read it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 287261
> 
> 
> DOVAL screwed NDTV
> View attachment 287260
> 
> 
> @Abingdonboy @Levina @ranjeet @kaykay @kurup @MilSpec @anant_s @SR-91
> 
> Oh BTW a small update: SOURCE Based
> 
> INS Arihant has done a total of 24 missile ejections over 6 different depths. Each of the depth test scenario was repeated to re validate the whole process. Its been doing some good testing quietly....
> 
> INS Aridhaman is almost ready for a small launch party.. Expected in Q2 or Q3 this year.. (prolly July)


Few months back this letter was posted by few on this forum.
Am I right @Abingdonboy ? 

NDTV had lost its credibility immediately after Kargil war. JMHO!

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## PARIKRAMA

SR-91 said:


> Finally someone is here to put a stop on leaking classified information to public.
> A law should be passed asap, if any govt official is caught passing classified information to anyone, will be charged under TRAITORS or ESPIONAGE law. Lifetime jail without bail.
> 
> 
> @PARIKRAMA bro, that is DOVAL'S phone number up there. I'm gonna call him tonight, any particular question you want me to ask him?




Yes bro, ask him what handle he uses in PDF? 

But I think he is returning or just returned from. Paris where on 14th he had a meeting with NSA Janjua. You can get a inside scoop of that too..

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## Abingdonboy

PARIKRAMA said:


> Some thing a bit old but posting from another forum...
> 
> VERY VERY INTERESTING if you read it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 287261
> 
> 
> DOVAL screwed NDTV
> View attachment 287260
> 
> 
> @Abingdonboy @Levina @ranjeet @kaykay @kurup @MilSpec @anant_s @SR-91
> )


Yes, I remember reading this at the time- it should have been done long ago but thankfully someone is now paying attention to these sorts of OpSec issues.

It's funny how quick the Indian media was to state again and again that all visuals of the Pathankot activity during the operations were NOT live and delayed by "unspecified time". They reiterated it every few moments its seems- they have FINALLY been told how to behave in such incidents.



Levina said:


> Few months back this letter was posted by few on this forum.
> Am I right @Abingdonboy ?
> 
> NDTV had lost its credibility immediately after Kargil war. JMHO!


You're right, it had been posted (and discussed) some time ago.

I don't know about Kargil but 26/11 was certainly when the Indian media and NDTV in particular showed its true colours. Those vermin got people (NSG operators) killed and that is unforgivable- they have blood on their hands but continue to pretend they are the moral authority of India.

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## MilSpec

@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA an off topic suggestion, create a thread for 2016 onwards Naval modernization plan detailing all platforms and ordinance.

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## kurup

PARIKRAMA said:


> Some thing a bit old but posting from another forum...
> 
> Oh BTW a small update: SOURCE Based
> 
> INS Arihant has done a total of 24 missile ejections over 6 different depths. Each of the depth test scenario was repeated to re validate the whole process. Its been doing some good testing quietly....
> 
> INS Aridhaman is almost ready for a small launch party.. Expected in Q2 or Q3 this year.. (prolly July)



Dummy missile ejections ,,,,, I guess .

How reliable is your source ??

Also make sure you are not revealing anything serious .

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## PARIKRAMA

kurup said:


> Dummy missile ejections ,,,,, I guess .
> 
> How reliable is your source ??
> 
> Also make sure you are not revealing anything serious .



Dummy ejections sir.. its done for a continuous period over a month back... 

Source is not revealing anything more to me.. So i am posting only when some information is about to make way to media...

Will keep it in mind for postings sir.. no serious revelation...

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## sudhir007

is it Arihant

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## PARIKRAMA

sudhir007 said:


> is it Arihant



Yes Sir, if i remember correctly the image first appeared among mainstream media.. Zee news, idrw, indiastrategic etc










india strategic





zee news

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## sudhir007

Why the silo open ???

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## KingRaj

Looks mighty.

Looks mighty.

Looks mighty.


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## PARIKRAMA

sudhir007 said:


> Why the silo open ???


That looks like an emergency hatch sir..
INS Arihant approximately looks like this but it has derived a lot from KILO hull open story..











A kilo sub schematic right after our sad loss due to explosion





Thus, i believe thats an emergency hatch..

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## PARIKRAMA

*S-2/Arihant SSBN Showcased In IFR-2016 Commemorative Booklet*
*Source : *_TRISHUL: S-2/Arihant SSBN Showcased In IFR-2016 Commemorative Booklet_

@Abingdonboy @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @SpArK @nair @anant_s @Levina @ranjeet @Echo_419 @Koovie @Taygibay @dadeechi @Vauban @Ankit Kumar @nair @Spring Onion @waz @SpArK @Dandpatta @AUSTERLITZ @Capt.Popeye @illusion8 @mkb95 @knight11 @Imran Khan @Guynextdoor2 @Oscar @danish_vij @Nilgiri @Tshering22 @Providence @scorpionx @MaarKhoor @SrNair @hellfire @Water Car Engineer @Parul @Star Wars @GORKHALI @sathya @Scavenger @anant_s @acetophenol @Omega007 @surya kiran @sarjenprabhu @Dash @RISING SUN @SRP @AMCA @XiNiX@Water Car Engineer @cerberus @#hydra# @[Bregs] @45'22' @sathya @surya kiran @Nilgiri @Rajaraja Chola @scorpionx @RISING SUN @Saitama @Brahmaputra Mail @zootinali @jaunty @noksss @Star Wars
@[Bregs]

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## Abingdonboy

PARIKRAMA said:


> *S-2/Arihant SSBN Showcased In IFR-2016 Commemorative Booklet*
> *Source : *_TRISHUL: S-2/Arihant SSBN Showcased In IFR-2016 Commemorative Booklet_
> 
> @Abingdonboy @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @SpArK @nair @anant_s @Levina @ranjeet @Echo_419 @Koovie @Taygibay @dadeechi @Vauban @Ankit Kumar @nair @Spring Onion @waz @SpArK @Dandpatta @AUSTERLITZ @Capt.Popeye @illusion8 @mkb95 @knight11 @Imran Khan @Guynextdoor2 @Oscar @danish_vij @Nilgiri @Tshering22 @Providence @scorpionx @MaarKhoor @SrNair @hellfire @Water Car Engineer @Parul @Star Wars @GORKHALI @sathya @Scavenger @anant_s @acetophenol @Omega007 @surya kiran @sarjenprabhu @Dash @RISING SUN @SRP @AMCA @XiNiX@Water Car Engineer @cerberus @#hydra# @[Bregs] @45'22' @sathya @surya kiran @Nilgiri @Rajaraja Chola @scorpionx @RISING SUN @Saitama @Brahmaputra Mail @zootinali @jaunty @noksss @Star Wars


Basically meaningless, other than we know the CO of the Arihant at this time.

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## sudhir007

Arihant model in IFR -2016

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## PARIKRAMA

sudhir007 said:


> Arihant model in IFR -2016



Thats surely not to scale model... Also i believe looking at it its a school or a university level model... Primarily not a defense expo level model owing to too much generalized way everything is placed in separate compartments

But whomsoever made it, its a good effort as its a very simple way of enticing and explaining to common people visiting IFR


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## Defence News

*Source:- defenceupdate.in
Content of post is taken from this website.Don't forget to visit this site
INS Arihant:- India’s Silent Under water warrior*

INS Arihant is the lead ship of India’s Arihant class of nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines. The 6,000 tonne vessel was built under the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project at the Ship Building Centre in the port city of Visakhapatnam.

Arihant was launched on 26 July 2009, the anniversary of Vijay Diwas(Kargil War Victory Day) by Former Prime Minister of India, Dr. Manmohan Singh. As of November 2015, it was still undergoing sea trials, and is expected to join the Indian Naval fleet in February 2016 during the International Fleet Review 2016.

Constituted in the late 1980’s, the main aim of the project was to equip India with a second strike platform capable of launching retaliatory strikes against hostile states.

India realized the significance of deterrence during the 1971 Indo-Pakistan war, US in support of its ally Pakistan dispatched ‘Task force 74’ led by USS Enterprise into the Bay of Bengal to intervene in India’s fight for Bangladesh. Realizing the immense fire power the carrier group, India requested the intervention of Russia which dispatched its nuclear powered submarines to trial the task force. It was only for the interference of the Soviet’s the day was saved for India.

Soon India setup the Advanced Technology Vessels (ATV) project with the sole purpose of constructing nuclear powered submarines which could carry nuclear tipped ballistic missiles. The exact events pertaining to the project was shrouded in secrecy and not much is known about the vessels constructed under the program. The project was cleared as a ‘black project’ and was put under direct control of the PMO. The project is believed to be cleared in the early 90’s and was accelerated soon after India successfully completed ‘Smiling Buddha’.

The major hurdle in realizing the project was miniaturizing the nuclear reactor for powering the submarine. India’s leading atomic research organization, ‘BARC’ was put in charge of designing and fabricating a nuclear reactor to power the submarine. BARC designed, pressurized water reactor (PWR) using enriched uranium as fuel at its Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research Centre at Kalpakkam. The reactor was capable of producing 83 MW of power and was labelled ‘S-1’ and consisted of the reactor, control systems and the shielding tank, the reactor went critical on 11th November 2013.

The state owned shipyard HSL, Vizag was put in charge of the project. The work on the submarine began at a fully enclosed dry dock at Vishakhapatnam. At the heart of the sub was a 83 MW PWR reactor and the sub itself was designed based on the Russian Akula class submarine. Leading private industries were also extensively involved in the project, L&T provided the hull, BEL and HEC was crucial in developing the reactor and shielding compartments, Tata power pitched in with its high end control systems.

The lead vessel of the class ‘INS Arihant’ was launched on 25th July 2009 at Vishakhapatnam. Dedicating the submarine to the nation, PM openly acknowledged and lauded sustained Russian support for the program. The submarine then underwent an extensive fitting out process and by the late 2012 was then moved to docks for sustained harbour trials for system tests and validation. The submarine underwent repeated controlled submerged tests for hull pressure tests. The submarine was repeatedly put through extensive tests to analyse its high pressure capabilities.

The reactor of ‘INS Arihant’ went critical on 10th August 2013 and was tested for operational levels in validation tests that lasted for almost a year. After completing its harbour trials the submarine floated out of Vishakhapatnam harbour on 13th December 2014 on its own power. The submarine has now entered its final phase of testing, the sub will now be tested to its maximum dive depth and will also fire the K-15 missiles.

The Arihant class submarine is the smallest boomer in the world and India is the only nation apart from the P-5 to have successfully developed a SSBN. Arihant class submarines will be equipped with at least 12 K-15 ‘Sagarika’ missiles, developed by India’s premier defense organization DRDO. The K-15 is a two stage solid propellant fueled missile which can carry a 1 tonne nuclear warhead. The missile can strike a target at 750 kilometers when carrying a 1000 kg payload. The range of the missile can be drastically extended to 2000 km by reducing the payload to around 200kg. The submarine will also be equipped to carry the K-4 missile with a range of 3500 kilometer when carrying a 2.5 tonne warhead. The submarine will also carry 6 ‘533mm torpedoes’ for countering any lurking threats.

*Source:- defenceupdate.in
Content of post is taken from this website.Don't forget to visit this site*


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## PARIKRAMA

Okies here is the confirmation from a good source.. THE WEEK from Aug 2015

Arihant and Aridhaman will be same size and powered by 83MW reactor

Then comes S3 Plus and 2 more named S4 and S5 are to be powered by 160 MW reactor . IMHO tonnage should be closer to 10-12K.

Beyond this perhaps will be the much larger boats with 190 MW reactor and almost 18K tonnage,

There is a slight change also as scorpenes subs follow on are now being discussed,,





Deep Designs

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## Water Car Engineer



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## A$HU

I have a doubt. Since the design was frozen in 1984 only, how quiet are these submarines compared to other submarines? And aren't the technologies used in this are a bit old?

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## kublaiyuan

A$HU said:


> I have a doubt. Since the design was frozen in 1984 only, how quiet are these submarines compared to other submarines? And aren't the technologies used in this are a bit old?



see design and production are two different things, designing a jet engine is pretty simple but producing a jet engine with reliable metal/allow is almost impossible for 98% of countries.
There are design available from WW2 for engines, turbines which are yet to be realized coz the tech. has not caught up with the know how to metallurgy as of now heck there are even designs of Dyson sphere.

So point is when the production began for submarine and what kind of metallurgy/reactor tech. Indians have including the russian inputs. I am pretty sure this submarine is as quit as Akula II which is russian tech. of 90s but still finding INS Arihant is almost impossible for US navy and impossible for most. 
And people do a mistake tagging INS Arihant and incoming sister ships of this class<actually are bigger> as SSBN
these are not just ballistic missile carrying submarines these are multi-role, in future these will also be carrying cruise missiles. The upcoming versions of these submarines will be even quieter.

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## mehboobkz

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-trials-top-official/articleshow/51868214.cms


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## MKC

mehboobkz said:


> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-trials-top-official/articleshow/51868214.cms


Seems he is south Indian
Shakti=> Sakthi
Khanjar=>Kanjhar
Immediate support vessels to Inshore support vessels.
BTW why do IN provide security of ONGC why not ICG?
Why IN inducting small ships like 60 tonnes?
Eight ships including the indigenous stealth frigate INS Satpura, fleet support ship INS Sakthi, Landing Platform Dock INS Jalashwa, Landing Ship Tank(Large) INS Airavat, Missile Corvettes IN Ships Kanjhar and Nishank, Inshore Support Vessels T-36, T-39 and submarine INS Sindhukirti of the ENC participated in the event, a defence release said.


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## kurup

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/788002853835071488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/788001126633189376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/787996582272651265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/787998585786818560

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## soundHound

Wow, I mush say out of almost all defense project nation has taken so far, this particular one was most silent one, full of secrec. Is this operational deployment, I mean with ballistic ?


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## ranadd

Wait for people to ask for evidence now... 

Anyway, since seeing the first block being joined years back, knew this is going to be one hell of a deterrent.

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## SR-91

Good...since we knew that, it's not all that exciting....

News about Aridhaman will be exciting. Love to know what's the difference between Arihant and Aridhaman.


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## ranadd

SR-91 said:


> Good...since we knew that, it's not all that exciting....
> 
> News about Aridhaman will be exciting. Love to know what's the difference between Arihant and Aridhaman.



From my meager information, Arihant is a Design validator or Technology Demonstrator. The sub is designed to validate the future submarines. Items like Project Management, Vendor Quality, Technologies used, Reactor safety, Missile tech etc are the few key ones.

Project Management is one thing that is less glamorous and lesser known. But Countries that actually develop military hardware will tell you, is THE key factor. Not sure if there are enough information about the sub assembly or transportation, but it was a huge task itself. Yes, it was constructed in modules at one place and moved to another. No one knew they were subs. And yeas, our neighbors can say India doesn't develop military hardware or we are slow in development... But truth is bit far from it.

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## Hindustani78

The indigenously built nuclear-powered ballistic submarine INS Arihant off Visakhapatnam. File photo


http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/now-india-has-a-nuclear-triad/article9231307.ece

*INS Arihant was commissioned by Navy Chief Admiral Lanba in August.*
India has quietly completed its nuclear triad by inducting the indigenously built strategic nuclear submarine INS Arihant into service.

INS Arihant was formally commissioned by Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba in August, defence sources confirmed to _The Hindu_ on Monday. The issue was reported earlier in the day by TV channel _NewsX_.

To maintain secrecy, it is not being referred to as INS Arihant, sources added. INS which stands for ‘Indian Naval Ship’ is affixed to a ship only after it is inducted into service.

*No-first-use doctrine*
Arihant is capable of carrying nuclear tipped ballistic missiles, the class referred to as Ship Submersible Ballistic Nuclear (SSBN). SSBNs are designed to prowl the deep ocean waters carrying nuclear weapons and provide a nation with an assured second strike capability — the capability to strike back after being hit by nuclear weapons first.

Second strike capability is particularly important for India as it had committed to a ‘No-First-Use’ policy as part of its nuclear doctrine.

*The vessel weighing 6000 tonnes is powered by a 83 MW pressurised light water nuclear reactor.* The project *to build a strategic vessel began as the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project in the 1980s and the vessel was launched in 2009 by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. *Since then it was put to extensive sea trials and the reactor on board went critical in 2013.

*It will be armed with the K-15 Sagarika missiles with a range of 750 km and eventually with the much longer range K-4 missiles being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation.*

With this India joins the select group of countries which have a nuclear triad, i.e. capable of delivering nuclear weapons by aircraft, ballistic missiles and submarine launched missiles.

Both the Defence Ministry and the Navy declined to comment as the issue is out of their purview being a strategic asset.


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## [Bregs]

*Sub-par power yield leaves Arihant drifting in deep sea of delay*

Published October 19, 2016 SOURCE: ENS


The country’s first indigenously developed nuclear submarine Arihant will soon be unveiled after years of secrecy. Prime Minister Narendra Modi is expected to visit Visakhapatnam for its formal commissioning and dedicate it to the nation at the Eastern Naval Command, according to a top government official.

But before its operational deployment, its developers are struggling to fix a critical issue in its pressurised water reactor, which has not been able to generate adequate power for the submarine’s functioning. 

According to sources, the nuclear-powered submarine was inducted into the fleet a few days back, but its commissioning is yet to happen before it’s formally put on operational deployment in the deep sea. 

Explaining further, an official said a warship requires a flag and pennant number before being commissioned into service, while induction is only its entry into the service.

“There will soon be an opportunity to talk about Arihant,” vice admiral G S Pabby said while indicating a formal announcement is to be made soon. 

The 6,000-tonne Arihant is armed with nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles and will be the third leg of the ‘triad’ of land, air and sea-launched nuclear weapons envisaged by India’s nuclear doctrine of 1998. In 2013, the nuclear reactor of the submarine went ‘critical’ and from December 2014 onwards, the sea trials began, which included the test firing of K-series of missiles. 

But since then, its 83 MW pressurised light-water reactor at its core, developed with extensive assistance from the Russia, has been facing multiple technical glitches. 

A top official said its pressurised water reactor has not been synchronised with other vital systems. And because of it, the reactor has not been able to generate the ‘required’ power to operate the submarine.

“Synchronization of its pressurised water reactor to other key systems was a tricky job. Its configuration to generate 83 MW nuclear energy has not been successfully done, resulting in repeated delays in its operational deployment,” said a top defence source.

* A joint team of Russian and Indian scientists has been actively working round-the-clock to fix the critical issue. *

Arihant, powered by an 83-MW pressurised water reactor with enriched uranium fuel, was launched symbolically into water on July 26, 2009, by then PM Manmohan Singh’s wife Gursharan Kaur. And since then, it is missing its deadline, as the Navy wanted the submarine to be ready for deterrent patrol by 2014, which means it should be equipped with nuclear weapons. But, sources also claimed that deterrent patrol will be a further step and will take some months to actually deploy.

Some months back, Arihant was integrated with the K-15 submarine-launched ballistic missile, which has a range of 750-km and the K-4 that has aa range of up to 3,500-km.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...ter-maintaining-years-of-secrecy-1529359.html

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## wiseone2

it will take a few years to refine tactics using Arihant


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## Han Patriot

[Bregs] said:


> *Sub-par power yield leaves Arihant drifting in deep sea of delay*
> 
> 
> 
> But since then, its 83 MW pressurised light-water reactor at its core, developed with extensive assistance from the Russia, has been facing multiple technical glitches.
> 
> 
> 
> * A joint team of Russian and Indian scientists has been actively working round-the-clock to fix the critical issue. *



Hmmm, indigenous?


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## Echo_419

Han Patriot said:


> Hmmm, indigenous?



Yes, do you have comprehension problems

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## Safriz

Arihant to have no MIRV capability will be a very weak second strike capability. The only SSBN in the world not to carry Missiles with multiple warheads.


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## ashok321

شاھین میزایل said:


> Arihant to have no MIRV capability will be a very weak second strike capability. The only SSBN in the world not to carry Missiles with multiple warheads.



Jericho III is Israeli MIRV with 1.5 meter diameter. 
Israel is helping India on MIRV bus technology.

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## Safriz

ashok321 said:


> Jericho III is Israeli MIRV with 1.5 meter diameter.
> Israel is helping India on MIRV bus technology.


Jericoh series isn't primarily designed for MIRV as putting more than one Warheads on one missile is strategically dangerous for a small country like Israel which has no strategic depth.


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## ashok321

شاھین میزایل said:


> Jericoh series isn't primarily designed for MIRV as putting more than one Warheads on one missile is strategically dangerous for a small country like Israel which has no strategic depth.



The gist being that, it is technically possible to fit MIRV in a missile with less than 2 meter diameter. Something that Indians can do too.


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## nik141993

ashok321 said:


> The gist being that, it is technically possible to fit MIRV in a missile with less than 2 meter diameter. Something that Indians can do too.


all depends upon miniaturisation of warhead & high ISP based fuel & composite motors specially in last stage in which India is 3 decade ahead of Pakistan at minimum & comparable to P 5 members. Pakistani can fool about superiority of there 60s era technology only to there defence expert's & gulibal awaam

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## Han Patriot

Wasnt it commissioned and operational?


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## ashok321

Han Patriot said:


> Wasnt it commissioned and operational?



NO.


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## Panzerkampf

Han Patriot said:


> Wasnt it commissioned and operational?


Yes it has been commissioned and is operational.


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## Han Patriot

Panzerkampf said:


> Yes it has been commissioned and is operational.


So wht is the truth now? Is the reactor hzving problems?


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## surya kiran

**Mod edit: Personal Attacks**

@Han Patriot it was commissioned in August 2016 and is operational. It was commissioned by the then naval chief. Forgot his name.


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## surya kiran

Han Patriot said:


> So wht is the truth now? Is the reactor hzving problems?



Power is the problem. We need a reactor which is of a newer generation and generates more power. This being the first one, problems are expected.. may take couple of more subs before we perfect it.


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## [Bregs]

surya kiran said:


> @ashok321 stop farting if you do not have facts.
> 
> @Han Patriot it was commissioned in August 2016 and is operational. It was commissioned by the then naval chief. Forgot his name.



http://thediplomat.com/2016/10/india-quietly-commissions-deadliest-sub/

http://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.asp?ship_id=INS-Arihant-S73

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## Han Patriot

surya kiran said:


> Power is the problem. We need a reactor which is of a newer generation and generates more power. This being the first one, problems are expected.. may take couple of more subs before we perfect it.


So if it doesnt generate enough power, does it mean it's just floating there?
This is the last news I got as of OCT 2016
http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...ter-maintaining-years-of-secrecy-1529359.html


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## ashok321

surya kiran said:


> @ashok321 stop farting if you do not have facts.



It was _quietly_ commissioned.
Why?
Any precedent?

Narcissist, Selfie sufficient, photo opportunist Modi (one who pushed Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook for a photo shot) went for the ceremony, and came without Photos?



> In February 2016, India’s 1st indigenously built nuclear armed submarine INS Arihant was declared as ready for operations. In August 2016, *Prime Minister Modi had quietly commissioned INS Arihant* into the Indian Navy and since then it is fully-operational.


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## Panzerkampf

ashok321 said:


> It was _quietly_ commissioned.
> Why?
> Any precedent?
> 
> Narcissist, Selfie sufficient, photo opportunist Modi (one who pushed Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook for a photo shot) went for the ceremony, and came without Photos?


It is a strategic nuclear submarine and is most secretive black project in India ever.
Of course their won't be any photos.



Han Patriot said:


> So if it doesnt generate enough power, does it mean it's just floating there?
> This is the last news I got as of OCT 2016
> http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...ter-maintaining-years-of-secrecy-1529359.html


It generates 83MW which is enough for a 6000Ton sub.
It will fire a K4 SLBM during naval exercises in June-July.


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## Han Patriot

Panzerkampf said:


> It is a strategic nuclear submarine and is most secretive black project in India ever.
> Of course their won't be any photos.
> 
> 
> It generates 83MW which is enough for a 6000Ton sub.
> It will fire a K4 SLBM during naval exercises in June-July.


But if it was secret how come your PM can openly commission it and it all over the media?


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## GuardianRED

Han Patriot said:


> But if it was secret how come your PM can openly commission it and it all over the media?


????
Like @Panzerkampf said _"It is a strategic nuclear submarine and is most secretive black project in India ever.
Of course there won't be any photos"
_
WE DON'T need the PM to commission it


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## Han Patriot

GuardianRED said:


> ????
> Like @Panzerkampf said _"It is a strategic nuclear submarine and is most secretive black project in India ever.
> Of course there won't be any photos"
> _
> WE DON'T need the PM to commission it


But there was a ceremony for the PM to 'officially' commission it. If it was secret, shouldn't it be kept in the dark?


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## Panzerkampf

Han Patriot said:


> But if it was secret how come your PM can openly commission it and it all over the media?


Only news about commissioning was made public through unofficial media but rest was all closed to media.


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## surya kiran

ashok321 said:


> It was _quietly_ commissioned.
> Why?
> Any precedent?


Going by this logic, India does not have nuclear weapons, because it was never announced with noise. Neither does India have strategic ballistic missiles, because there was no big ceremony IPL style. Please do not let your politics start clouding judgements.



Han Patriot said:


> So if it doesnt generate enough power, does it mean it's just floating there?
> This is the last news I got as of OCT 2016
> http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...ter-maintaining-years-of-secrecy-1529359.html


More to do with maintaining sustained high speeds.


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## ashok321

surya kiran said:


> Going by this logic, India does not have nuclear weapons, because it was never announced with noise. Neither does India have strategic ballistic missiles, because there was no big ceremony IPL style. Please do not let your politics start clouding judgements.



Arihant is no nuclear weapon itself, it is mere platform to launch nuclear missiles, those that can even be launched from Scorpene types too. Why making it a big deal to hide the basic deficiencies within? Scorpene (nuke capable) missiles launches are publicized but not otherwise?

*Indian Navy Fires Anti-Ship Missile From Attack Sub in Arabian Sea ...*

*India-made Scorpene Submarine Test-fires Missile - News18*

The world knows India has nuclear weapons after several detonations publicized and even responded to foreign media after their queries.

So your point just became as worthless as a shipyard in Afghanistan.


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## surya kiran

ashok321 said:


> Arihant is no nuclear weapon itself, it is mere platform to launch nuclear missiles, those that can even be launched from Scorpene types too. Why making it a big deal to hide the basic deficiencies within? Scorpene (nuke capable) missiles launches are publicized but not otherwise?
> 
> *Indian Navy Fires Anti-Ship Missile From Attack Sub in Arabian Sea ...*
> 
> *India-made Scorpene Submarine Test-fires Missile - News18*
> 
> The world knows India has nuclear weapons after several detonations publicized and even responded to foreign media after their queries.
> 
> So your point just became as worthless as a shipyard in Afghanistan.



Couple of factual errors in your argument.

1. India does not have nuclear tipped cruise missiles. At-least going by your logic, because it's not been announced. And we have not tested nuclear tipped cruise missiles. So your logic again fails.

2. The world knows India has nuclear weapons after several detonations = INS Arihant was commissioned and news was publicized by no less than the Hindu. So the Hindu is lying?

3. By the way, are you aware we also do not have free fall nuclear devices, because it has never been announced through a live event with 10 dancers and a song.

See how your logic fails? A story posted by the Hindu and carried by other media agencies is worth more than your tinted views. 

A bit of advice, please carry on with your political commenting, it is your right. But please do it in relevant threads. This is thread is not for Rahul bashing or Modi bashing.

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## ashok321

Han Patriot said:


> But there was a ceremony for the PM to 'officially' commission it. If it was secret, shouldn't it be kept in the dark?



It seems they want to take you for a ride.

When the same sub was launched there was a ceremony open to media.





*PM launches INS Arihant in Visakhapatnam - Times of India*
timesofindia.indiatimes.com › 
Jul 26, 2009 - India becomes the sixth nation to join the elite A-league as Manmohan Singh formallylaunched the indigenously-built nuclear-powered ...

It is already clear that India BECAME the sixth nation then.
But now that the watercraft is sick with disease, they want to hide it with several pretexts.



surya kiran said:


> Couple of factual errors in your argument.
> 
> 1. India does not have nuclear tipped cruise missiles. At-least going by your logic, because it's not been announced. And we have not tested nuclear tipped cruise missiles. So your logic again fails.
> .



India is not showing any nation whether they have mated their missiles with nuclear warheads.
The general tendency is to declare them discreetly as nuclear capable missiles.
The conventional wisdom = Being nuclear capable.
Keep them guessing.

You can put anything of yours in my mouth, but I am not chewing.

You tried you failed.


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## surya kiran

ashok321 said:


> It seems they want to take you for a ride.
> 
> When the same sub was launched there was a ceremony open to media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PM launches INS Arihant in Visakhapatnam - Times of India*
> timesofindia.indiatimes.com ›
> Jul 26, 2009 - India becomes the sixth nation to join the elite A-league as Manmohan Singh formallylaunched the indigenously-built nuclear-powered ...
> 
> It is already clear that India BECAME the sixth nation then.
> But now that the watercraft is sick with disease, they want to hide it with several pretexts.
> 
> 
> 
> India is not showing any nation whether they have mated their missiles with nuclear warheads.
> The general tendency is to declare them discreetly as nuclear capable missiles.
> The conventional wisdom = Being nuclear capable.
> Keep them guessing.
> 
> You can put anything of yours in my mouth, but I am not chewing.
> 
> You tried you failed.



Let me get this. So when the nuclear bombs were exploded but never commissioned its ok to believe that we have nuclear bombs. But, when the INS Arihant is launched and its announced that its been commissioned its not ok to believe. I am only using your logic here. There is no place for 'general tendency' till it is proven beyond doubt with an event and a photo op that its there. So we have no nuclear bombs.

Now, coming to the point of Arihant having flaws, yes it does. But that does not mean its not commissioned. Which is what you are saying.

Yes, I may be failing but then its due to using your logic. Piece of advice, think logically before posting the next time.

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## ashok321

surya kiran said:


> Let me get this. So when the nuclear bombs were exploded *but never commissioned* its ok to believe that we have nuclear bombs. But, when the INS Arihant is launched and its announced that its been commissioned its not ok to believe. I am only using your logic here. There is no place for 'general tendency' till it is proven beyond doubt with an event and a photo op that its there. So we have no nuclear bombs.
> 
> Now, coming to the point of Arihant having flaws, yes it does. But that does not mean its not commissioned. Which is what you are saying.



Do you know the naval term _commissioning_ in its real sense or you are here to ridicule yourself?

*Ship commissioning is the act or ceremony of placing a ship in active service.
*
Are the bombs commissioned? Which country commissions bombs?
Lol

I give up.
I have to Ignore you from here onwards.


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## surya kiran

ashok321 said:


> Do you know the naval term _commissioning_ in its real sense or you are here to ridicule yourself?
> 
> *Ship commissioning is the act or ceremony of placing a ship in active service.
> *
> Are the bombs commissioned? Which country commissions bombs?
> Lol
> 
> I give up.
> I have to Ignore you from here onwards.



So when a newspaper, which by the way is The Hindu and not ToI reports that its commissioned, it means its not commissioned and is lying.

It was nice of you to tell me what commissioning is. Very enlightening. And ignoring me is not going to stop from proving you absolutely dumb logic where we are supposed to believe you instead of the entire media. 

Let's do one thing. Show me one comment from a Congress spokesperson or former Congress minister on the record questioning the commissioning.


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## ashok321

HT = Hindustan times was the only daring newspaper which came out with a remarkable news about Indian's first nuclear powered submarine being *sick with various kinds of disease.*

HT = Hindustan times was the only daring newspaper which printed shri Ram Jethmalani's article, which no other media out there was ready to print, owing to Amit Shah's threats.

And guess what.
It (the alleged anti national HT) got sold out to Mukesh Ambani all of a sudden for a hefty price of billion dollar US, who borrowed the money from Indian banks as ever and closed the deal.

This is how Modi's India functions secretly.
What is the procedure or a definition of a submarine being operational?

INS which stands for ‘Indian Naval Ship’ is affixed to a ship only after it is inducted into service.
Which is not even the case for this submarine, simply because it is not inducted into service.

How many missiles have been fired by this submarine so far?
NONE!
Recently build Kalaveri class did it, which is a standard:

*Indian Navy Fires Anti-Ship Missile From Attack Sub in Arabian Sea ...*

*India-made Scorpene Submarine Test-fires Missile - News18*

In fact the story is real different from what Indians want you to believe.

The Reliance media says the it was Modi who did commission the watercraft as in the following:


> In February 2016, India’s 1st indigenously built nuclear armed submarine INS Arihant was declared as ready for operations. In August 2016, *Prime Minister Modi had quietly commissioned INS Arihant* into the Indian Navy and since then it is fully-operational.



But look at the alternative news from the respectful newspaper "The Hindu".



> *INS Arihant was formally commissioned by Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba* in August, defence sources confirmed to The Hindu on Monday. The issue was reported earlier in the day by TV channel NewsX.



So who do you believe?
Certainly not Indian government.


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## surya kiran

ashok321 said:


> But look at the alternative news from the respectful newspaper "The Hindu".
> 
> 
> 
> So who do you believe?
> Certainly not Indian government.



So you are saying the Arihant is commissioned? Unlike earlier that it was not.

@Han Patriot now we can safely say that it has been commissioned since the nay sayer agrees it has been commissioned.

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## ranadd

INS Arihant has been long commissioned and is functioning as per its technical expectations. INS Aridhaman has been floated out as well. .

Also, INS Arihant for all intent and purpose is a TD.

There is no need for news, media or anyone to report this.

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## surya kiran

ranadd said:


> Stick to the topic.


How can he? He has to prove we are doing badly post 2014 in each and every thread. Irrespective of content.

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## gslv mk3

ashok321 said:


> NO.



So you know more than DAE & the parliamentary committee ?


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## RISING SUN

*EXCLUSIVE: What’s New In India’s Nuclear Submarine Program?*
With heightened buzz from India’s nuclear submarine nursery over the imminent launch of the country’s second nuclear-powered ballistic missile boat _Aridhaman_, we caught up with the journalist who first revealed the contours of the n-sub program and the strategic weapons India is building with it. Here’s _India Today_ executive editor *Sandeep Unnithan* in an exclusive conversation with Livefist’s *Shiv Aroor* providing the latest detailed overview of where things stand.
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/09/exclusive-whats-up-in-indias-nuclear-submarine-program.html


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## Hindustani78

NEW DELHI, October 14, 2017 20:55 IST
Updated: October 15, 2017 07:14 IST




Blue power: The nuclear-powered INS Arihant is seen off Visakhapatnam in this file photo. 

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a-bigger-nuclear-submarine-is-coming/article19862549.ece


* After INS Aridhaman, focus will be on more potent version. *

India’s second strategic nuclear submarine Aridhaman is just a few weeks from sea launch. But raising ambitions for the Navy’s capability, there are plans to build a bigger and more potent version of the indigenous nuclear submarine in the immediate future, say sources.

That leap for India’s ballistic nuclear submarine capabilities would come with the fourth submarine planned in the same class, named S4-Star. It would have a stronger weapons configuration integrated into an extra compartment that would be added to Arihant’s original design.

On the Aridhaman, sources said the “final checks are under way. All the three modules have been integrated. It is likely to be launched in late November,” an official source told _The Hindu_. Another source said a November launch may be difficult, but “in December, it will definitely be in the sea.”

Fuel loading in the nuclear reactor for Aridhaman was completed in January, but it would go critical only much later after initial sea trials. Once launched, the submarine will be put to extensive harbour and sea trials, before being formally commissioned in the next couple of years.

The indigenously built second nuclear submarine will add to India’s growing nuclear capabilities, in the face of the new strategic realities of the region, including the assertive Chinese naval presence in the Indian Ocean. 

Last October, India commissioned its first Ballistic Nuclear Submarine, INS Arihant. The vessel, weighing 6,000 tonnes, is powered by an 83 MW pressurised light water nuclear reactor.

Aridhaman, of the Arihant class, will carry several new pieces of equipment including new-generation sensors and periscope, compared to the first ship.

Construction of the third submarine of the same class is under way in four different parts, and could be completed approximately in a year. This would also be of the same size as Arihant and Aridhaman, but possess more advanced weapons and sensors. The third submarine is planned for launch in late 2018. 

As soon as Aridhaman is launched, the final integration of the third submarine will begin in Visakhapatnam, it is learnt.

*Indigenous capability*

The project to build a strategic nuclear submarine to carry nuclear missiles began as the Advanced Technology Vessel project in the 1980s, and the vessel project was launched in 2009 by Dr. Manmohan Singh.

Arihant, which can carry nuclear tipped ballistic missiles, is of the ship submersible ballistic nuclear class.

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## Makarena

*Indian nuclear submarine was crippled for ten months after water flooded in when sailor ‘forgot to close the HATCH’*

*The ballistic-missile sub called INS Arihant suffered major damage back in 2016*
*She was sat in Visakhapatnam harbour when a crew member left the door open*
*Saltwater rushed in and flooded the vessel, damaging the interior and her pipes*
*The extensive repair work took almost a year to complete on the £2billion sub *
By Gareth Davies For Mailonline

PUBLISHED: 18:15 GMT, 10 January 2018 | UPDATED: 18:31 GMT, 10 January 2018




e-mail

*142*shares
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A £2billion Indian nuclear submarine was crippled for ten months after water flooded it when a sailor allegedly forgot to close the hatch. 

The ballistic-missile sub called INS Arihant suffered 'major damage' not long after it was commissioned in 2016. 

While sat in the Visakhapatnam harbour on the country's east coast, the trap door was left open by one of the crew and water rushed inside. 






+2
The ballistic-missile sub called INS Arihant (pictured in 2014) suffered 'major damage' not long after it was commissioned in 2016






+2
Saltwater had to be pumped out of the vessel and damaged pipes had to be cut out and replaced. 


The extensive repairs on the submarine designed to carry a floating stock of nuclear weapons took almost a year. 

*RELATED ARTICLES*

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*SHARE THIS ARTICLE*
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In its coverage of the bizarre incident The Hindu said: 'Arihant’s propulsion compartment was damaged after water entered it.

'A naval source said water rushed in as a hatch on the rear side was left open by mistake while it was at harbor.'

How such a simple mistake could have occurred on one of the crown jewels of the Indian military has left experts scratching their heads. 

Popular Mechanics reported on the incident, saying: 'As the star of the Indian Navy, Arihant should have attracted the best submariners India had to offer, which makes this accident all the more baffling.'



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-sailor-forgot-close-HATCH.html#ixzz55v8W2NS3 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


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## Foxbat Alok

Is INS Arihant Damaged? Can’t Divulge Information in National Interest, Says Government
http://indiandefencenews.info/is-in...rmation-in-national-interest-says-government/


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## Advaitagrata

Foxbat Alok said:


> Is INS Arihant Damaged? Can’t Divulge Information in National Interest, Says Government
> http://indiandefencenews.info/is-in...rmation-in-national-interest-says-government/



Which means the news is true. Else they would just have said NO.


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## Hindustani78

Prime Minister's Office
05-November, 2018 14:20 IST
*Prime Minister felicitates crew of INS Arihant on completion of Nuclear Triad *

Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi received today the crew of Strategic Strike Nuclear Submarine (SSBN) INS Arihant. The submarine recently returned from its first deterrence patrol, completing the establishment of the country's survivable nuclear triad.

Stressing the significance of the successful deployment of INS Arihant for the completion of India's nuclear triad, the Prime Minister congratulated the crew and all involved in the achievement which puts India among a handful of countries having the capability to design, construct and operate SSBNs.

Noting that the indigenous development of the SSBN and its operationalisation attest to the country's technological prowess and the synergy and coordination among all concerned, the Prime Minister thanked them for their dedication and commitment in realising this pioneering accomplishment enhancing immensely the country's security.

The Prime Minister commended the courage and commitment of India's brave soldiers and the talent and perseverance of its scientists, whose untiring efforts transformed the scientific achievement of nuclear tests into establishment of an immensely complex and credible nuclear triad, and dispelled all doubts and questions about India's capability and resolve in this regard.

The Prime Minister stated that the people of India aspire for a 'Shaktimaan Bharat' (Strong India) and building a New India. They have strived tirelessly to overcome all challenges in this path. He stressed that a strong India will fulfill the hopes and aspirations of over a billion Indians and will also be an important pillar for global peace and stability, especially in a world full of uncertainties and concerns.

The Prime Minister extended greetings to the participants and their families on the occasion of Deepawali, the Festival of Light. He expressed the hope that just as light dispels darkness and all fear, INS Arihant will be harbinger of fearlessness for the country.

As a responsible nation, India has put in place a robust nuclear command and control structure, effective safety assurance architecture and strict political control, under its Nuclear Command Authority. It remains committed to the doctrine of Credible Minimum Deterrence and No First Use, as enshrined in the decision taken by the Cabinet Committee on Security in its meeting chaired by the then Prime Minister Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee on January 04, 2003.

*****

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## Hindustani78

* The pursuit of nuclear-armed submarines reflects a security assessment that is becoming increasingly irrelevant *

On November 5, Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced that India’s first indigenous ballistic-missile armed nuclear submarine (SSBN), Arihant, had “successfully completed its first deterrence patrol” and claimed that this “accomplishment” would “always be remembered in our history”. However, he failed to address some fundamental questions: why does India need such a submarine? And, are the enormous resources spent on the nuclear-submarine programme justified?

A nuclear submarine is fuelled by an onboard nuclear reactor, which allows it to operate underwater for long periods of time. In contrast, a conventional diesel submarine uses batteries to operate underwater, but is forced to surface periodically to recharge its batteries using diesel-combustion engines that require oxygen. SSBNs were first deployed during the Cold War and justified as a tool of last resort. If an adversary were to launch a devastating first-strike on a country, destroying its land-based missiles and paralysing its air force, the submarine — undetected at sea — could still deliver a counter-strike, assuring the “mutual destruction” of both countries. 

*Indian context*

However, this strategic function makes little sense in the modern Indian context. There is no realistic threat, which the Arihant could counter, that could wipe out India’s existing nuclear deterrent. *The range of the missiles carried by the Arihant is about 750 km, and so it can only target Pakistan and perhaps China. *

The Pakistan government has threatened to use *“tactical nuclear weapons”* to counter India’s cold-start doctrine that envisions a *limited invasion of Pakistan*. However, these are relatively small *nuclear weapons *that could devastate a battlefield but would not affect the Indian military’s ability to launch a counter-strike using its existing land or air-based forces.

*China has consistently pledged, for more than 50 years, that it will never be the first to use nuclear weapons in a conflict. Even if China were to suddenly change its policy, any attempt to disable India’s nuclear weapons would be fraught with unacceptable risks regardless of whether India possesses SSBNs. Even the United States, which maintains such a large nuclear stockpile, is unwilling to militarily engage a limited nuclear power such as North Korea since it understands that it cannot reliably disable Pyongyang’s land-based deterrent. *

Much of the rest of the world has moved to outlaw nuclear weapons. Last year, 122 nations voted in favour of the “Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons”. The Indian government skipped these negotiations claiming, nevertheless, that it was “committed to universal... nuclear disarmament”. So the government’s active pursuit of nuclear-armed submarines undermines India’s stated international position and reflects a security assessment that is becoming increasingly irrelevant.

*Some risks*
In fact, nuclear-armed submarines increase the risks of an accidental conflict. Traditionally, nuclear weapons in India have been kept under civilian control, and separate from their delivery systems. However, the crew of a nuclear-armed submarine will have both the custody of nuclear weapons and the ability to launch them at short notice. Even though reports suggest that nuclear weapons on Indian SSBNs will be safeguarded by electronic switches, called “permissive action links”, such a setup can dangerously weaken the civilian command-and-control structure, as declassified documents from the Cuban missile crisis show. 

During the crisis, U.S. warships recklessly attacked a Soviet submarine with practice depth charges to force it to surface. The captain of the submarine, which had been sailing under difficult conditions and was out of radio contact with the Soviet leadership, thought that war had broken out and decided to respond with nuclear torpedoes. It was only the sober intervention of another senior officer on the submarine, Vasili Arkhipov, that prevented the outbreak of large-scale nuclear hostilities. For his actions, which averted a civilisation-threatening event, Arkhipov was posthumously awarded the “Future of Life” award last year.

*Prohibitive costs*
Given its uncertain, and even adverse, impact on the country’s security, it is especially important to examine the costs of the SSBN programme. Media reports suggest that the Indian Navy would eventually like about four SSBNs. The government has not released precise figures, but the international experience can be used to estimate the costs of such a fleet.

The British government recently estimated that the cost of four new SSBNs would be £31 billion, or about ₹70,000 crore per submarine. This is similar to the U.S. Navy’s estimate of the cost of a new “Columbia-class” SSBN. The lifetime costs of operating such submarines are even larger than these initial costs; British and American estimates suggest that each SSBN requires between ₹2,000 crore and ₹5,000 crore in annual operational costs.

The Indian submarines will be smaller, and perhaps cheaper. However, even if their costs are only half as large as the lower end of the British and American estimates, the total cost of maintaining a fleet of four SSBNs, over a 40-year life cycle, will be at least ₹3 lakh crore.

It is senseless to spend this money on nuclear submarines when thousands of lives are lost each year because the state pleads that it lacks resources for basic health care and nutrition. It seems appropriate to revisit the words of Sardar Patel, who is held in high esteem by the current dispensation. Patel was hardly a pacifist but he was alive to the issue of wasteful military expenditure. “We must not... be frightened by the bogey of foreign designs upon India,” Patel explained in his presidential address to the 1931 Karachi Congress, or allow it to be used to turn the army into an “octopus we are daily bleeding to support”.


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## gslv mk3

Hindustani78 said:


> It is senseless to spend this money on nuclear submarines when thousands of lives are lost each year because the state pleads that it lacks resources for basic health care and nutrition.



What else to expect from a leftist commie newspaper, The Hindu... 

Should be rather used as a substitute for toilet paper...


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## Hindustani78

TIRUNELVELI, November 18, 2018 00:19 IST
Updated: November 18, 2018 07:16 IST






* It was stopped in August for fuel outage *
The first reactor of the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Project (KKNPP), which was stopped on August 1 for the mandatory third annual fuel outage, resumed power generation at 12.35 p.m. on Saturday.

The loading of fuel and associated maintenance work were completed in 108 days.

After the reactor ran for about 7,000 hours after the second fuel outage, it was stopped on August 1 for planned third fuel outage. The guidelines state that at the end of a fuel cycle, the used fuel should be replaced with fresh fuel assemblies. In the process, 33% of the spent fuel was removed robotically and fresh enriched uranium fuel bundles were inserted into the reactor.

The unloading of spent fuel from the reactor’s core and the loading of fresh fuel assemblies are normally completed with the help of fully automated refuelling equipment.

*During the third fuel outage, of the 163 enriched uranium fuel assemblies in the 1,000-MW VVER (water-cooled water-moderated) reactor, 53 spent fuel assemblies were removed and replaced with fresh bundles, officials said.*

The quantum of power being generated by the 1,000-MW reactor would be increased in a phased manner and this process would be dotted with mandatory stops and tests at regular intervals before taking the reactor to its maximum generation capacity.

Meanwhile, a Salem-based firm, identified for pit excavation, consolidation and confirmatory sub-soil investigation for the main plant buildings and structures of KKNPP units 5 and 6, started work on Saturday. The ₹51 crore-worth contract work would be completed in 15 months.

Construction of KKNPP’s 5th and 6th reactors would be carried out at an outlay of ₹50,000 crore, and Russia, the technology supplier, would provide half of the funding as loan. An agreement to this effect was signed in June 2017. Atomstroyexport, a unit of Russian state nuclear corporation Rosatom, would build the reactors.


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## Hindustani78

* INS Arihant’s inaugural sea patrol must spark a debate on the state of India’s nuclear deterrence *

*November 23, 2018 00:15 IST
Updated: November 23, 2018 00:12 IST

*
The INS Arihant, India’s first nuclear ballistic missile submarine that completed its sea patrol earlier this month, will contribute significantly to making India’s deterrence capability more robust. Submarine-based nuclear capability is the most survivable leg of a nuclear triad, and its benefit must be seen especially in the light of the growing naval capabilities of India’s potential adversaries. In this light, certain questions need to be addressed on the third leg of India’s nuclear triad, as well as major challenges for strategic stability in the southern Asian region.

*Arihant’s missing links*
While it is true that India’s deterrence capability is a work in progress, there is nevertheless a need to carry out an objective assessment of what INS Arihant can and cannot do, and the implications thereof. To begin with, there is no clarity on whether the first deterrence patrol of INS Arihant had nuclear-tipped missiles on board. If not, the deterrence patrol would have been intended for political purposes devoid of any real deterrent utility. Without nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles on board an SSBN (ship submersible ballistic nuclear) such as INS Arihant, it might not be any more useful than an ordinary nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN).

Second, even if INS Arihant had nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles on board, it is not clear what ranges they would cover. Reports suggest that it had the 750 km range K-15 missiles on board, which is insufficient to reach key targets in, say, China or Pakistan unless it gets close to their waters, which would then make the Indian SSBN a target. While the K-4 missile (3,500 km range) currently under development would give the country’s sea deterrent the necessary range vis-à-vis its adversaries, INS Arihant would not be able to carry them on board. The Navy would require bigger SSBNs (S-4 and S-5) to carry the K-4 ballistic missiles. In other words, deterring India’s adversaries using the naval leg of its nuclear forces is a work in progress at this point of time.

Third, if indeed the objective of India’s nuclear planners is to achieve seamless and continuous sea deterrence, one SSBN with limited range is far from sufficient. Given the adversaries’ capabilities in tracking, monitoring and surveilling India’s SSBNs, it would need to invest in at least four more. Maintaining a huge nuclear force and its ancillary systems, in particular the naval leg, would eventually prove to be extremely expensive. One way to address the costs would be to reduce the reliance on the air and land legs of the nuclear triad. Given that India does not have ‘first strike’ or ‘launch on warning’ policies, it can adopt a relatively relaxed nuclear readiness posture. New Delhi could, in the long run, invest in a survivable fleet of nuclear submarines armed with nuclear-tipped missies of various ranges, and decide to reduce its investment in the land and air legs of its nuclear deterrent, thereby reducing costs. While this might bring down costs without sacrificing the country’s deterrence requirements, inter-service claims might frustrate such plans.

Finally, the naval leg of the nuclear triad also poses significant command and control challenges. As a matter of fact, communicating with SSBNs without being intercepted by the adversaries’ tracking systems while the submarines navigate deep and far-flung waters is among the most difficult challenges in maintaining an SSBN fleet. Until such sophisticated communication systems are eventually put in place, India will have to do with shallower waters or focus on bastion control, which in some ways reduces the deterrence effect of SSBNs, as bastions would be closer to the ports..

*Impact on strategic stability*
INS Arihant’s induction will also have implications for regional stability. For one, it is bound to make the maritime competition in the Indian Ocean region sharper, even though the lead in this direction was taken by the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) a long time ago. Hence, the dominant driver of India’s SSBN plans appears to be China's expanding inventory of nuclear submarines. The PLAN’s Jin class submarine with the JL-2 missiles with a range of 7,400 km began its deterrent patrol several years ago. Chinese nuclear-powered submarines (reportedly without nuclear weapons on board) have been frequenting the Indian Ocean on anti-piracy missions, creating unease in New Delhi. INS Arihant in that sense is a response to the Chinese naval build-up. Pakistan’s reaction to India’s response to China would be to speed up its submarine-building spree, with assistance from Beijing. Add to this mix China’s mega infrastructure project, the Belt and Road Initiative, with its ambitious maritime objectives; and the revival of the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, or Quad, with India, U.S., Japan, and Australia.

This sharpening of the maritime competition further engenders several regional ‘security dilemmas’ wherein what a state does to secure itself could end up making it more insecure. The net result of this would be heightened instability for the foreseeable future. However, once the three key players in this trilemma — China, India and Pakistan — manage to put in place the essential conditions for credible minimum deterrence, the effect of the instability could potentially decrease. But it’s a long road to such an outcome.

What would further complicate the relations among the three key players in the region is the absence of nuclear confidence-building measures (CBMs) among them. While India and Pakistan have only rudimentary nuclear CBMs between them, India and China have none at all. In the maritime sphere, neither pairs have any CBMs. Given the feverish maritime developments that are underway, the absence of CBMs could lead to miscalculations and accidents. This becomes even more pertinent in the case of Pakistan, which uses dual-use platforms for maritime nuclear power projection. In case of a bilateral naval standoff, the absence of dedicated conventional or nuclear platforms could potentially lead to misunderstandings and accidents. It is therefore important for India and Pakistan (as also India and China) to have an ‘incidents at sea’ agreement like the one between the U.S. and USSR in 1972, so as to avoid incidents at sea and avoid their escalation if they took place.

*Command and control*
India’s sea deterrent also throws up several key questions about the country’s nuclear command and control systems. To begin with, unlike in the case of the air or land legs of the triad where civilian organisations have the custody of nuclear warheads, the naval leg will be essentially under military custody and control given that there would be no civilian presence on board an SSBN. Not only would the SSBN have no warhead control by civilians (i.e., BARC scientists), its captain would be under the Strategic Forces Command, an organisation manned by military officers. Also, given that the warhead would be pre-mated with the canisterised missiles in the SSBN, what would be the finer details of the launch authority invested in the SSBN captain? The SSBN captain would have the authority to launch nuclear missiles on orders from the political authority. However, is there a fool-proof Permissive Action Links system in place to ensure that an unauthorised use does not take place? There needs to be more clarity on such issues.

In sum, while INS Arihant makes India’s nuclear deterrence more robust, it also changes deterrence stability in the southern Asian region as we know it. More so, it is important to remember that the country’s sea deterrent is still in its infancy, and its path hereon is riddled with challenges.


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