# Govt Approves Inclusion Of Qadianis In National Commission For Minorities



## Death Professor

Source

ISLAMABAD (92 News) – Under instructions from Prime Minister Imran Khan, the federal government approved the inclusion of Qadianis in the National Commission for Minorities (NCM) on Wednesday.

Moreover, the Ministry of Religious Affairs has been directed to reorganize the National Commission for Minorities.

Reacting to the move, PML president Ch Shujaat expressed his concern over the inclusion of Qadianis in the NMC.

“The opening of Pandora’s box of Qadianis is beyond understanding. Neither the Qadianis accept themselves non-Muslim minority nor do they accept the constitution of Pakistan. Under these circumstances, the favoring of Qadianis is a joke with Pakistan which is unacceptable,” he maintained.

He said that there was need of broad-based consultations with Ulema before such move. “But the government did not bother to take its allies into confidence over the matter. The discussion of a sensitive matter is raising several questions,” he said.

The PML president demanded immediate withdrawal of the decision. “We and our party dissociate ourselves from such proposal which is in clash with the constitution,” he concluded.

Meanwhile, MPA Hafiz Ammar Yasir termed the decision to include the Qadianis in the National Commission for Minorities as unwise.
.............................................................................................................................


Well things are in motion lets hope for the best. Now is the perfect time. At-least now no one will complain, that we don't take care of our NON-MUSLIM MINORITIES. I guess the cry to their master really did help.


@El Sidd interesting isn't it...

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## Death Professor

Different but interesting point of views.

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## famoj47521

I am loving it.

PTI is digging its own grave. And they have no idea.

"And they plan, and ALLAH plans, and ALLAH is the best planner."

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## El Sidd

Death Professor said:


> @El Sidd interesting isn't it...



very. ironic that mosques are closed. one cannot go visit their families but this was urgent.

will this atleast bring the laundered money back as investments?



Death Professor said:


> Different but interesting point of views.



what about scientologist and gohar shahis and fonzists?

Isn't Qadiyan a city in India?



famoj47521 said:


> they have no idea.



Looks like Bao Ji's greater Punjab policy. Imran Khan is a soldier of Nawaz Sharif

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## Death Professor

El Sidd said:


> very. ironic that mosques are closed. one cannot go visit their families but this was urgent.
> 
> will this atleast bring the laundered money back as investments?



Thats why I said, timing was perfect. If he can't do this now, no one can/will, afterwards.

TLP can be curbed under the pretext of corona, so does everyone else. Opposition parties would stay quiet because they were trying their best to fill this hole in their tenure. Baki thora sa shoor shraba tou media me chalta hi rehta hai...



El Sidd said:


> Isn't Qadiyan a city in India?


Yes it is and that is why it is proper to call them Qadiani and not Ahmedis(but thats just my opinion), they assumed it would be easier to control a small country than a bigger non-muslim one. But still credit goes to Bhutto, although I am not his supporter but atleast he covered some of the things for us.



El Sidd said:


> gohar shahis



not big enough...



El Sidd said:


> and fonzists?


never heard of 'em.



El Sidd said:


> scientologist



we don't have that issue, though I like how Americans have treated them. No one takes them serious. Imo, thats a right approach, atleast they can't cry minority rights...


All I can say, the coming days would be extremely interesting.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

So this is why there were so many anti-Ahmadi trends running on twitter today.



famoj47521 said:


> I am loving it.
> 
> PTI is digging its own grave. And they have no idea.
> 
> "And they plan, and ALLAH plans, and ALLAH is the best planner."


If Muslims believe in Allah and the day of judgement, then let the Ahmadis practice their faith as they wish, call themselves what they wish, and let Allah decide on the day of judgement.

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## Moonlight

There was no problem floating around related to any of the minority groups, especially Ahmedis. I don’t understand what made the government to reinstitute this issue? USCIRF just issued its annual report yesterday enlisting India after 15 years in the list of the countries constraining rights of minorities. And it praised Pakistan for its constant efforts to give minorities the freedom they deserve. Pathetic. 
What a golden opportunity for so called libtard and seculars to utilize this chance in maligning Pakistan. *Slow clap*

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

El Sidd said:


> very. ironic that mosques are closed. one cannot go visit their families but this was urgent.


Can you at least make an attempt to compare apples with apples, instead of comparing fruit with rocks?

What does minimizing physical contact in mosques and various other places have to do with including Ahmadis in a commission for minorities?

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## El Sidd

Death Professor said:


> Thats why I said, timing was perfect.


It will give rise to many opportunities 


Death Professor said:


> not big enough...


even one is enough as per fundamentals of the constitution. remember that one jewish guy in Pakistan thread.


Death Professor said:


> All I can say, the coming days would be extremely interesting.


what do you think is the issue they wanna divert things from


AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Can you at least make an attempt to compare apples with apples, instead of comparing fruit with rocks?
> 
> What does minimizing physical contact in mosques and various other places have to do with including Ahmadis in a commission for minorities?



Mosques are community centers. Without a community debate, such measures are an insult to democracy



Moonlight said:


> *Slow clap*



There is a NAB ordinance floating around as well. Maybe they are masking the issue through this.

its not even clever enough. people are frustrated as hell. 

its like inviting civil disobedience and another nro

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

If people don't consider Ahmadis as Muslims, then they are minorities and should have a place on the National Commission on Minorities.

If you don't consider them minorities, then they are Muslims.

You can't just put millions of people from a particular faith in limbo - neither minorities nor Muslims, just because you're incapable of controlling your inner bigot.

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## Turingsage

The fonz thanks you


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## Yaseen1

this govt is proxy of antiPakistan forces and should be removed as soon as possible to secure Pakistan

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

El Sidd said:


> Mosques are community centers. Without a community debate, such measures are an insult to democracy


There's no community debate necessary. The options are simple and clear:

1. Ahmadis are not-Muslims and should therefore be considered minorities and included in the National Commission on Minorities

2. Ahmadis are not minorities, in which case they should be considered Muslims and the constitution of Pakistan amended to remove any references to them not being Muslim

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## Blacklight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> If Muslims believe in Allah and the day of judgement, then let the Ahmadis practice their faith as they wish, *call themselves what they wish,* and let Allah decide on the day of judgement.


They are free to practice what ever they want, as long as they dont call themselves Muslims.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Yaseen1 said:


> this govt is proxy of antiPakistan forces and should be removed as soon as possible to secure Pakistan


You can't put together a rational argument on why Ahamadis shouldn't be on the National Commission on Minorities but have the gall to come on here and declare the government a 'proxy of anti-Pakistan forces'.

Na koi sharam na haya.

If they are not Muslims then they are minorities.

If you don't want them to be treated as minorities, then change to constitution to declare them Muslims.

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## El Sidd

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> There's no community debate necessary.


Says who? Debate is a must


AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> 1. Ahmadis are not-Muslims and should therefore be considered minorities and included in the National Commission on Minorities
> 
> 2. Ahmadis are not minorities, in which case they should be considered Muslims and the constitution of Pakistan amended to remove any references to them not being Muslim



Qadiyan is a city in India.

That's not how it works now does it. You cannot go around giving every 3rd world cult a religion status.

A country's legislature simply does not work like that. Neither they do become automatic Muslims nor they have a uniform set of beliefs that fulfill requirements of a separate religion.

The distinction of being non Muslim is enough.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Blacklight said:


> They are free to practice what ever they want, as long as they dont call themselves Muslims.


Then why the uproar over including them in the National Commission on Minorites?

In Pakistan, are minorities not defined as those who are not Muslim?



El Sidd said:


> Says who? Debate is a must
> 
> 
> Qadiyan is a city in India.
> 
> That's not how it works now does it. You cannot go around giving every 3rd world cult a religion status.
> 
> A country's legislature simply does not work like that. Neither they do become automatic Muslims nor they have a uniform set of beliefs that fulfill requirements of a separate religion.
> 
> The distinction of being non Muslim is enough.


Again, stop beating around the bush, or rocks, or whatever inanimate object you've chosen to run around today and answer the previous question:

What other options are there:

1. Ahmadis are not-Muslims and should therefore be considered minorities and included in the National Commission on Minorities

2. Ahmadis are not minorities, in which case they should be considered Muslims and the constitution of Pakistan amended to remove any references to them not being Muslim



Death Professor said:


> es it is and that is why it is proper to call them Qadiani and not Ahmedis(but thats just my opinion)


The proper and respectful thing to do is to refer to a community by what they choose to be called.

Do you like it when rednecks refer to Muslims as 'Islamicans'?

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## El Sidd

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> What other options are there



The same options that worked till now.

What problems have they been facing or aim to resolve with this legislation?


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## Blacklight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Then why the uproar over including them in the National Commission on Minorites?
> 
> In Pakistan, are minorities not defined as those who are not Muslim?


Because "they" are yet to admit that they are a minority. According to their rehtoric, it is the others i.e. Shia + Sunni who are non-Muslims. Qadianis need to stop being confused, and pick a side.


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## jericho

El Sidd said:


> very. ironic that mosques are closed.


In Canada yes. In Pakistan they opened it based on some guidelines. (and you know about it)


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

El Sidd said:


> The same options that worked till now.
> 
> What problems have they been facing or aim to resolve with this legislation?


That option is that they are declared non-Muslim under the constitution and therefore are a minority.


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## Yaseen1

there was no need of such proceeding by govt when country is facing problems due to pandemic,timing of such action suggest that they are deliberately doing this to create unrest,soon people will gather in large numbers for protests which will spread more corona virus and will cause more damage to economy,govt actions clearly show that they want to damage country


AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> You can't put together a rational argument on why Ahamadis shouldn't be on the National Commission on Minorities but have the gall to come on here and declare the government a 'proxy of anti-Pakistan forces'.
> 
> Na koi sharam na haya.
> 
> If they are not Muslims then they are minorities.
> 
> If you don't want them to be treated as minorities, then change to constitution to declare them Muslims.

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## El Sidd

jericho said:


> In Canada yes. In Pakistan they opened it based on some guidelines. (and you know about it)



The 20 points agreed led to 90 percent mosques being closed.

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## 313ghazi

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> If people don't consider Ahmadis as Muslims, then they are minorities and should have a place on the National Commission on Minorities.
> 
> If you don't consider them minorities, then they are Muslims.
> 
> You can't just put millions of people from a particular faith in limbo - neither minorities nor Muslims, just because you're incapable of controlling your inner bigot.



You can if you're a bigot sanghi who secretly doesn't want qaidianis to exist. This type of person would resort to any means possible to make that happen if they could. 

Unfortunately we have people like that amongst us. The spread of hate is deep in our society.

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## Blacklight

Yaseen1 said:


> there was no need of such proceeding by govt when country is facing problems due to pandemic,timing of such action suggest that they are deliberately doing this to create unrest,soon people with gather in large numbers for protests which will spread more corona virus and will cause more damage to economy,govt actions clearly show that they want to damage country


When a country is in crisis, that is the most opportune time to quietly pass laws / rules that suits those in power. So much for democracy....

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## 313ghazi

Yaseen1 said:


> there was no need of such proceeding by govt when country is facing problems due to pandemic,timing of such action suggest that they are deliberately doing this to create unrest,soon people will gather in large numbers for protests which will spread more corona virus and will cause more damage to economy,govt actions clearly show that they want to damage country



Maybe the people could have some sharam instead and not decide to oppress a religious minority?

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## El Sidd

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> That option is that they are declared non-Muslim under the constitution and therefore are a minority.



When you fill a form there is an option of others.

What beneficial corruption scheme do the Qadiyanis intend to achieve by this? There is simply no debate as to why this lawmaking was needed and to tackle what governance issue borne out of the simple fact that cults don't get religion status in Pakistan.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Blacklight said:


> Because "they" are yet to admit that they are a minority. According to their rehtoric, it is the others i.e. Shia + Sunni who are non-Muslims. Qadianis need to stop being confused, and pick a side.


It obviously doesn't matter what Ahmadis think because the constitution has declared them non-Muslim against their will. And if the constitution has declared them non-Muslim, then the only other legal option available is for them to be minorities.

We have some extremist Sunnis who don't think Shia or Ismailis are Muslim - disagreements over faith exist in every faith and sect. So that isn't really much of an argument one way or the other.



El Sidd said:


> When you fill a form there is an option of others.
> 
> What beneficial corruption scheme do the Qadiyanis intend to achieve by this? There is simply no debate as to why this lawmaking was needed and to tackle what governance issue borne out of the simple fact that cults don't get religion status in Pakistan.


What is an 'other'?

Are they visitors from Mars?


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## Yaseen1

i think after govt such action to favor qadyanis unjustly more people will gather in mosques as it seems that govt want to end freedom of Muslims for prayers but want to give this to qadyanis which cannot be tolerated and we will protect our religious freedom at any cost


El Sidd said:


> The 20 points agreed led to 90 percent mosques being closed.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Blacklight said:


> When a country is in crisis, that is the most opportune time to quietly pass laws / rules that suits those in power. So much for democracy....


It's a freaking commission on minorities, thats it! And Ahmadis are being given a seat at the table to advocate for the rights of their community.

Give your insecurity a rest.

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## El Sidd

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> What is an 'other'?
> 
> Are they visitors from Mars?


Others as to those who cannot be classified into any of the category. 

A cult member can tick the other box just as well as someone who is a fonzist or scientologist or mormon.


Yaseen1 said:


> i think after govt such action to favor qadyanis unjustly more people will gather in mosques as it seems that govt want to end freedom of Muslims for prayers but want to give this to qadyanis which cannot be tolerated and we will protect our religious freedom at any cost



diabolical plan it seems.

I think they want some NAB amendments some other lawmaking done in the hindsight.

Remember this justice movement failed to deliver justice to those protesting against amendments to muslim oath.

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## jericho

El Sidd said:


> The 20 points agreed led to 90 percent mosques being closed.


Another BS.

_But Pattan Development Organisation said the rules were largely violated in the 194 mosques it surveyed in 15 cities and towns.

“In more than 80% of the mosques of Punjab and Islamabad, imams have failed to implement the government-clergy agreement during the first Taraveeh congregations on Friday evening,” it said. Taraveeh refers to special prayers offered during the month._

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...akistan-mosques-a-growing-worry-idUSKCN22A21I

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Yaseen1 said:


> there was no need of such proceeding by govt when country is facing problems due to pandemic,timing of such action suggest that they are deliberately doing this to create unrest,soon people will gather in large numbers for protests which will spread more corona virus and will cause more damage to economy,govt actions clearly show that they want to damage country


If people are so bloody stupid as to gather and protest over something like the inclusion of Ahmadis in the National Commission on Minorities, then it's their fault, not the government's.


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## Yaseen1

where sharam of govt went when india violated rights of kashmiris,why they not responded them,qadyanis are living much better life in western world and their condition is much better than kashmiris


313ghazi said:


> Maybe the people could have some sharam instead and not decide to oppress a religious minority?

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## Blacklight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> It's a freaking commission on minorities, thats it! And Ahmadis are being given a seat at the table to advocate for the rights of their community.
> 
> Give your insecurity a rest.


Dont know why you are getting so worked up? I can see @Khafee's point about this forum very clearly now.

When Qadianis, dont consider themselves to be a minority, then why give them that privilege? That too quietly in the middle of a crisis?

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## jericho

El Sidd said:


> and they sealed off those mosques. now only jai imran jai can be heard from there not invitation to prosperity and peace.
> 
> amazing ain't it Tohir Yoldashev


Who is they? Canada or Sindh government

" the Sindh government banned Taraweeh prayer congregations in mosques during Ramazan on Friday"
https://tribune.com.pk/story/2206114/1-congregational-taraweeh-prayers-banned-sindh/


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## El Sidd

Blacklight said:


> That to quietly in the middle of a crisis?



middle of the night.

khwarajil mujrimeen

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## Blacklight

El Sidd said:


> middle of the night.
> 
> khwarajil mujrimeen


Can you hear the drums beating, or the bag pipes?


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## Yaseen1

pti used same card for protesting against pmln govt and at that time accused them of same now they are doing same, i think they are receiving huge money from foreign agencies as evident from their double standards and hipocracy


El Sidd said:


> Others as to those who cannot be classified into any of the category.
> 
> A cult member can tick the other box just as well as someone who is a fonzist or scientologist or mormon.
> 
> 
> diabolical plan it seems.
> 
> I think they want some NAB amendments some other lawmaking done in the hindsight.
> 
> Remember this justice movement failed to deliver justice to those protesting against amendments to muslim oath.

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## El Sidd

jericho said:


> Who is they? Canada or Sindh government
> 
> " the Sindh government banned Taraweeh prayer congregations in mosques during Ramazan on Friday"
> https://tribune.com.pk/story/2206114/1-congregational-taraweeh-prayers-banned-sindh/



Sindh government.

Sindh government will lift all of it by 20 Ramadan. there is immense pressure from Iran to do so Yoldashev

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Blacklight said:


> Dont know why you are getting so worked up? I can see @Khafee's point about this forum very clearly now.
> 
> When they Qadianis, dont consider themselves to be a minority, then why give them that privilege? That to quietly in the middle of a crisis?


I'm worked up because it is shameful and embarrassing to see fellow Pakistanis reduced to caricatures of Sanghi bigots and foaming at the mouth in hatred over something so trivial as giving Ahmadis a seat at the table on the National Commission on Minorities.

Some of you are so insecure in your faith that it's shameful.


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## El Sidd

Blacklight said:


> Can you hear the drums beating, or the bag pipes?


horse hooves 


Yaseen1 said:


> pti used same card for protesting against pmln govt and at that time accused them of same now they are doing same, i think they are receiving huge money from foreign agencies as evident from their double standards and hipocracy



PTI government also wanted Israel recognition.

Soros money is always welcome. There is huge masonry potential in Pakistan

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## jericho

El Sidd said:


> PTI government also wanted Israel recognition.


Says a person living in a country that recognizes Israel

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## Death Professor

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> The proper and respectful thing to do is to refer to a community by what they choose to be called.



Nopes, Ahmad is the one name reserved for Prophet (P.B.U.H). The proper term for their community is Qadiani, its not offensive, but calling them Ahmadi is offensive for me and many others like me. Alot of Pakistani make this mistake because they are simpletons but they don't really understand the gravity of how and they prefer to be called as such and why it is offensive to some of us. 

So again, things are not as simple as they seem, everything is linked.

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## El Sidd

jericho said:


> Says a person living in a country that recognizes Israel



Canadian government sucks. It marginalised the French language during the crisis which is shameful.

Now lets hear some Uzbekistan praise. We shall see who gets to Pakistan first.

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## Blacklight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I'm worked up because it is shameful and embarrassing to see fellow Pakistanis reduced to caricatures of Sanghi bigots and foaming at the mouth in hatred over something so trivial as giving Ahmadis a seat at the table on the National Commission on Minorities.
> 
> You lot are so insecure in your faith that it's shameful.


NOTHING is shameful or embarrassing about defending the finality of the Prophet-hood SAWS! 

Sorry to have met you.

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## Lincoln

Yaseen1 said:


> there was no need of such proceeding by govt when country is facing problems due to pandemic,timing of such action suggest that they are deliberately doing this to create unrest,soon people will gather in large numbers for protests which will spread more corona virus and will cause more damage to economy,govt actions clearly show that they want to damage country



The ultimate vicious cycle of problem solving in Pakistan; leave it for tomorrow. 

No, get it done and over with today. Don't leave the your grandkids' grandkids' grandkids banging their heads against a wall on these problems.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Death Professor said:


> Nopes, Ahmad is the one name reserved for Prophet (P.B.U.H). The proper term for their community is Qadiani, its not offensive, but calling them Ahmadi is offensive for me and many others like me. Alot of Pakistani make this mistake because they are simpletons but they don't really understand the gravity of how and they prefer to be called as such and why it is offensive to some of us.
> 
> So again, things are not as simple as they seem, everything is linked.


Again, it is that simple.

You refer to someone with the name/term they chose to be referred to.

Ahmadis are Pakistanis and deserve the same respect as any other Pakistani. But I can't teach you manners and how to treat others with respect if you haven't learned it already.

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## Maxpane

its good decision. if they are non muslims then they have the right to get place in minority commission


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## Moonlight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Can you at least make an attempt to compare apples with apples, instead of comparing fruit with rocks?
> 
> What does minimizing physical contact in mosques and various other places have to do with including Ahmadis in a commission for minorities?



The problem is, Ahmedi community doesn’t want to be called minority and putting them into majority class would incite hatred and for a very valid reason. This country is declared an Islamic country and according to Islam, prophet Muhammad (saw) is the final prophet & they deny it. So what option is left?
I firmly believe, they should have all the freedom to practice their religion though.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Alternatiiv said:


> The ultimate vicious cycle of problem solving in Pakistan; leave it for tomorrow.
> 
> No, get it done and over with today. Don't leave the your grandkids' grandkids' grandkids banging their heads against a wall on these problems.


It'll be interesting to see if our leftist-resistance brigade comes out in support of Imran Khan and the PTI over this.

My guess is that they won't, because they don't have any principles other than hating the military, Pakistan and the PTI, but I would like to be proven wrong.

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## valkyr_96

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I'm worked up because it is shameful and embarrassing to see fellow Pakistanis reduced to caricatures of Sanghi bigots and foaming at the mouth in hatred over something so trivial as giving Ahmadis a seat at the table on the National Commission on Minorities.
> 
> You lot are so insecure in your faith that it's shameful.


Mostly the same people who were clamouring against Asiya Bibi. Interesting to see yet again how they are bouncing off in tangents. We declared them non-muslims (they declared us the same) and now their rights are guaranteed as minorities.

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## Crusher

Moonlight said:


> There was no problem floating around related to any of the minority groups, *especially Ahmedis.* I don’t understand what made the government to reinstitute this issue? USCIRF just issued its annual report yesterday enlisting India after 15 years in the list of the countries constraining rights of minorities. And it praised Pakistan for its constant efforts to give minorities the freedom they deserve. Pathetic.
> What a golden opportunity for so called libtard and seculars to utilize this chance in maligning Pakistan. *Slow clap*



This is a unrecognized terminology, on the ground they are called "marzai/mirzai" by the common people on the street and "qadianis" by the more sophisticated people in the media.

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## Death Professor

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> But I can't teach you manners and how to treat others with respect if you haven't learned it already.


I haven't been disrespectful to anyone. May be you are mixing twitter hash tags with this thread. But when did "Qadiani" start being used as a form of disrespect?

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## Moonlight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> You lot are so insecure in your faith that it's shameful.



woah after this comment, would you like to explain what “aGoNiStIc mUsLiM” means? Does that even make any sense?

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## Death Professor

Crusher said:


> This is a unrecognized terminology, on the ground they are called "marzai/mirzai" by the common people on the street and "qadianis" by the more sophisticated people in the media.



Thank you.

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## Crusher

Death Professor said:


> Thank you.



Growing up in Gujranwala I only heard the term "marzai" for them, I got introduced to "qadiani" term only through newspapers and media who usually create their own terms for people which are often not even used by common people on the street. On the street in Punjab, 99% of the common people call them "marzai". But these days I have noticed that Imran Khan's government is trying to popularize the "ahmadi" term on the media.

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## Moonlight

Crusher said:


> This is a unrecognized terminology, on the ground they are called "marzai/mirzai" by the common people on the street and "qadianis" by the more sophisticated people in the media.



They are known as Ahmedis as well. It’s very common terminology in western part of the world. 

Also, they call themselves Ahmedis when someone ask about their sect. So I’m not making this word up.

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## El Sidd

So now there is an official caliph in UK for Pakistanis?

wow


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Blacklight said:


> NOTHING is shameful or embarrassing about defending the finality of the Prophet-hood SAWS!
> 
> Sorry to have met you.


Nothing is shameful about letting millions of people practice their faith as they wish.

Like I said, grow up and learn to control your insecurities. If Allah really needed bigots to go around burning people at the crescent to 'protect Islam and the Prophet', Islam would have died out long ago.

As it is, look at the condition of Muslims worldwide - all this hatred, intolerance and prejudice has brought us nothing other than backwardness, violence and stupidity.

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## Nasr

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> So this is why there were so many anti-Ahmadi trends running on twitter today.
> 
> 
> If Muslims believe in Allah and the day of judgement, then let the Ahmadis practice their faith as they wish, call themselves what they wish, and let Allah decide on the day of judgement.



Who said that kadianis aren't allowed to practice their faith? As long as they accept the fact that they are not Muslim, and don't go parading around claiming to be Muslim, then yes, they can practice their faith in whatever they believe in, just as hindus, buddhists, zoroastrians and etc do in Pakistan.

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## Crusher

Moonlight said:


> *They are known as Ahmedis as well. It’s very common terminology in western part of the world. *
> 
> Also, they call themselves Ahmedis when someone ask about their sect. So I’m not making this word up.



But not in Pakistan at least not in Punjab where they are exclusively called "Marzai".

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## Moonlight

Crusher said:


> But not in Pakistan at least not in Punjab where they are exclusively called "Marzai".



Is that even an issue? No it’s not. Let’s just stick to the topic.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Nasr said:


> Who said that kadianis aren't allowed to practice their faith? As long as they accept the fact that they are not Muslim, and don't go parading around claiming to be Muslim, then yes, they can practice their faith


Did you even read what you wrote?

Please, please tell me that was sarcasm ...

Do I really need to explain how your statement is so arse backwards and contradictory?

YOU want to impose conditions like "_As long as they accept the fact that they are not Muslim, and don't go parading around claiming to be Muslim_" and then say "_they are allowed to practice their faith_".


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## El Sidd

its covid19 season. no one will go to gitmo as well. it will all be decided within that fort of islam

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## Dark-Destroyer

Yaseen1 said:


> this govt is proxy of antiPakistan forces and should be removed as soon as possible to secure Pakistan



Based on what calling ahmedis a non muslim minority? If they arent that what are they?

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## Blacklight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Nothing is shameful about letting millions of people practice their faith as they wish.
> 
> Like I said, grow up and learn to control your insecurities. If Allah really needed bigots to go around burning people at the crescent to 'protect Islam and the Prophet', Islam would have died out long ago.
> 
> As it is, look at the condition of Muslims worldwide - all this hatred, intolerance and prejudice has brought us nothing other than backwardness, violence and stupidity.



Can you tell me who is stopping Qadainis from practicing their faith? It's only on PDF and the libturd lobby that seems to be in pains over how much pain they are in. 

Nonetheless, making false accusations against me, and deflecting 360 degrees will not help you. 

The more you defend qadianis, the deeper the hole you are digging for this forum.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Moonlight said:


> woah after this comment, would you like to explain what “aGoNiStIc mUsLiM” means? Does that even make any sense?


What relevance does my name have on the discussion?

I'm clear in my principles & values - every individual deserves to be treated with respect and allowed to practice their faith as they wish, so long as no tangible harm is done to others through said practice.

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## Crusher

Moonlight said:


> Is that even an issue? No it’s not. Let’s just stick to the topic.



I always want to educate the people about the ground realities of Pakistan from my first hand knowledge. These things may look trivial to people living outside of Pakistan but the people living inside Pakistan take these things very seriously.

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## Death Professor

Moonlight said:


> They are known as Ahmedis as well. It’s very common terminology in western part of the world.
> 
> Also, they call themselves Ahmedis when someone ask about their sect. So I’m not making this word up.



Sure but it is offensive for every muslim and should be. It is their way to rub on the wounds. And the origin for why it is used is:
..........................................................................................................................................................
وَإِذْ قَالَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ إِنِّي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ إِلَيْكُمْ مُصَدِّقًا لِمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيَّ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَمُبَشِّرًا بِرَسُولٍ يَأْتِي مِنْ بَعْدِي اسْمُهُ أَحْمَدُ ۖ فَلَمَّا جَاءَهُمْ بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ قَالُوا هَٰذَا سِحْرٌ مُبِينٌ

English translation, is as follows:

_"And remember when Jesus, son of Mary, said, o_ _children of Israel, surely I am Allah's Messenger unto you fulfilling that which is before me of Torah, and giving glad tidings of e. Messenger who will come after me. His name will be _*Ahmad*_. And when he came to them with clear proofs they said, 'This is clear enchantment"'._
..............................................................................................................................................................

Their claim is here and if one accept what they claim to be called as, we are accepting what they believe. So its a very sensitive topic. Sometimes we just accept things how they are in thoughtlessness.

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## Dark-Destroyer

Yaseen1 said:


> there was no need of such proceeding by govt when country is facing problems due to pandemic,timing of such action suggest that they are deliberately doing this to create unrest,soon people will gather in large numbers for protests which will spread more corona virus and will cause more damage to economy,govt actions clearly show that they want to damage country



What unrest over what basic education would suggest that a non muslim in a majority Muslim country is a minority its as simple as A B C whats the argument about its completely a stupid argument all together


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Death Professor said:


> I haven't been disrespectful to anyone. May be you are mixing twitter hash tags with this thread. But when did "Qadiani" start being used as a form of disrespect?


My apologies. I should have clarified and not made assumptions. The Ahmadis I have come across in the US indicated to me that they considered the term Qadiani derogatory and preferred Ahmadi. It was wrong on my part to assume that everyone was familiar with that or that ALL Ahmadis considered the term Qadiani a derogatory term.


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## Yaseen1

if their khalifa mirza masroor give statement that they are minority and not a Muslim then there is no issue in giving them representation for minority commission but he has never accepted his group as non Muslim and repeatedly claim to be a Muslim and regard Muslims as nonMuslim


Dark-Destroyer said:


> Based on what calling ahmedis a non muslim minority? If they arent that what are they?

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## Moonlight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> What relevance does my name have on the discussion?
> 
> I'm clear in my principles & values - every individual deserves to be treated with respect and allowed to practice their faith as they wish, so long as no tangible harm is done to others through said practice.




Did’t you just question the faith of “you lot”? Then I wanted to question your name that doesn’t really make any sense. 


And yes everyone should have all the freedom to practice their faith but calling ones faith your faith as well with making some blasphemous changes would definitely face serious criticism.

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## Dark-Destroyer

Yaseen1 said:


> if their khalifa mirza masroor give statement that they are minority and not a Muslim then there is no issue in giving them representation for minority commission but he has never accepted his group as non Muslim and repeatedly claim to be a Muslim and regard Muslims as nonMuslim



As a Muslim you know your faith you know the final messnger is our Nabi Paak Muhammad s.a.w you dont need a non believer to tell you your faith and the goverment has declared them as non muslim so this arguemnt is not even necessary. It doesnt matter what he says.

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## Moonlight

Death Professor said:


> Sure but it is offensive for every muslim and should be. It is their way to rub on the wounds. And the origin for why it is used is:
> ..........................................................................................................................................................
> وَإِذْ قَالَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ إِنِّي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ إِلَيْكُمْ مُصَدِّقًا لِمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيَّ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَمُبَشِّرًا بِرَسُولٍ يَأْتِي مِنْ بَعْدِي اسْمُهُ أَحْمَدُ ۖ فَلَمَّا جَاءَهُمْ بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ قَالُوا هَٰذَا سِحْرٌ مُبِينٌ
> 
> English translation, is as follows:
> 
> _"And remember when Jesus, son of Mary, said, o_ _children of Israel, surely I am Allah's Messenger unto you fulfilling that which is before me of Torah, and giving glad tidings of e. Messenger who will come after me. His name will be _*Ahmad*_. And when he came to them with clear proofs they said, 'This is clear enchantment"'._
> ..............................................................................................................................................................
> 
> Their claim is here and if one accept what they claim to be called as, we are accepting what they believe. So its a very sensitive topic. Sometimes we just accept things how they are in thoughtlessness.




Umm no. It shouldn’t. We surly know what it refers to when they call themselves Ahmedi.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Moonlight said:


> Did’t you just question the faith of “you lot”? Then I wanted to question your name that doesn’t really make any sense.
> 
> 
> And yes everyone should have all the freedom to practice their faith but calling ones faith your faith as well with making some blasphemous changes would definitely face serious criticism.


I questioned the faith of those that can't even tolerate a community practicing their faith as they wish and support imposing upon that community restrictions such as 'don't call yourself Muslim and don't call yourself a minority either in Pakistan'.

Like I said, my values, about treating everyone with respect so long as they are not causing tangible harm to another, are clear. Those who support discrimination of Ahmadis and support forcing their religious beliefs on them don't earn my respect and yes, I consider their faith weak in that they cannot tolerate theological differences.

I do not see Islam supporting the laws against Ahmadis in Pakistan, so yes, I'll go so far as to say that our treatment of Ahmadis in Pakistan is un-Islamic.


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## Crusher

Moonlight said:


> Did’t you just question the faith of “you lot”? *Then I wanted to question your name that doesn’t really make any sense.*
> 
> 
> And yes everyone should have all the freedom to practice their faith but calling ones faith your faith as well with making some blasphemous changes would definitely face serious criticism.



His id is definitely an oxymoron. It is like calling oneself truthful liar.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Crusher said:


> His id is definitely an oxymoron. It is like calling oneself truthful liar.


The usual resort of people who run out of logical rebuttals - start arguing over tangential issues like, 'hey, look over there at that guys name!'

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## Yaseen1

their job is to create doubt about Muslim faith and it is biggest antiIslamic tool of enemies of Muslims to use Islamic concepts for their own interests with hidden purpose is to change true form of Islam in a stealth mode


Dark-Destroyer said:


> As a Muslim you know your faith you know the final messnger is our Nabi Paak Muhammad s.a.w you dont need a non believer to tell you your faith and the goverment has declared them as non muslim so this arguemnt is not even necessary. It doesnt matter what he says.

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## El Sidd

Dark-Destroyer said:


> As a Muslim you know your faith you know the final messnger is our Nabi Paak Muhammad s.a.w you dont need a non believer to tell you your faith and the goverment has declared them as non muslim so this arguemnt is not even necessary. It doesnt matter what he says.



Will you declare everyone terrorist who comes out against this law?

Diyyat economy without oil.

what a fail idea and you want to be dark destroyer. maybe you are just racist against darker skinned people

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## Dark-Destroyer

Yaseen1 said:


> their job is to create doubt about Muslim faith and it is biggest antiIslamic tool of enemies of Muslims to use Islamic concepts for their own interests with hidden purpose is to change true form of Islam in a stealth mode




So whats the


El Sidd said:


> Will you declare everyone terrorist who comes out against this law?
> 
> Diyyat economy without oil.
> 
> what a fail idea and you want to be dark destroyer. maybe you are just racist against darker skinned people



Well i dont know about everyone but you seem to be a media cell spokesperson.

Maybe your just a colonial masters house slave...


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## El Sidd

Dark-Destroyer said:


> Well i dont know about everyone but you seem to be a media cell spokesperson.
> 
> Maybe your just a colonial masters house slave..



that still does not warrant to legalize a cult

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## Death Professor

Moonlight said:


> Umm no. It shouldn’t. We surly know what it refers to when they call themselves Ahmedi.


Why leave even a little bit of ambiguity. Why not use a word that's not disrespectful and clearly differentiates/distances us from them. A muslim might know but a non-muslim might not know the difference. And we all know they have huge community in non-muslim countries.

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## El Sidd

Death Professor said:


> Why leave even a little bit of ambiguity. Why not use a word that's not disrespectful and clearly differentiates/distances us from them. A muslim might know but a non-muslim might not know the difference. And we all know they have huge community in non-muslim countries.



actually you can buy the book the real islam and make an opinion about it yourself.

its a cult. like if there was ever a case for classic dictionary usage. this would be it

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## Blacklight

El Sidd said:


> that still does not warrant to legalize a cult


The whole point of *this exercise* is exactly this!

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## Crusher

Death Professor said:


> Nopes, *Ahmad is the one name reserved for Prophet (P.B.U.H).* The proper term for their community is Qadiani, its not offensive, but calling them Ahmadi is offensive for me and many others like me. Alot of Pakistani make this mistake because they are simpletons but they don't really understand the gravity of how and they prefer to be called as such and why it is offensive to some of us.
> 
> So again, things are not as simple as they seem, everything is linked.



In fact it was his second name given to him by his mother Amna r.a., Muhammad (saw) was the name given to him by his grandfather Abdul Mutalib. So technically speaking both Muhammad and Ahmad were his "given" names. But due to patriarchal Arab society and early death of his mother in his childhood the name given by his grandfather persisted more than Ahmad, but still it was his second name.

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## El Sidd

Blacklight said:


> The whole point of *this exercise* is exactly this!



i am pretty sure there is money involved in it and some lawmaking with accountability. 

this is just a sideshow.

it's not even an issue considering 220 million and a 200 thousand villagers subjected to colonial oppression of protectionism following a religion from behind the city walls of qadiyan in India.

just like there is not issue with indian cities of bareilly or deoband.

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## ali_raza

El Sidd said:


> Will you declare everyone terrorist who comes out against this law?
> 
> Diyyat economy without oil.
> 
> what a fail idea and you want to be dark destroyer. maybe you are just racist against darker skinned people


wht do u suggest?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Blacklight said:


> The more you defend qadianis, the deeper the hole you are digging for this forum.


This forum is about Pakistan and many Ahmadis are also Pakistani.

The threat to Pakistan isn't from Ahmadis - Ahmadis haven't carried out suicide bombings in the TTP, JuA, LeJ ... they haven't been recruited by Iran to fight in terrorist proxy groups in other countries or engaged in violent sectarian conflicts at home.

Ahmadis are not the ones on our North West claiming Pakistani territory all the way to the Indus, or on our East with a million plus Army dreaming about the disintegration of Pakistan & Akhand Bharat.

This forum has and will do just fine. This isn't the first time I and others have defended Ahmadis. I've been defending them and criticizing Pakistan's laws against them since I joined this forum, and the forum has only gotten stronger and more popular.


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## ali_raza

El Sidd said:


> i am pretty sure there is money involved in it and some lawmaking with accountability.
> 
> this is just a sideshow.
> 
> it's not even an issue considering 220 million and a 200 thousand villages subjected to colonial oppression of protectionism following a religion from behind the city walls of qadiyan in India.
> 
> just like there is not issue with indian cities of bareilly or deoband.


can’t exactly comprehend wgt u mean


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## El Sidd

Crusher said:


> In fact it was his second name given to him by his mother Amna r.a., Muhammad (saw) was the name given to him by his grandfather Abdul Mutalib. So technically speaking both Muhammad and Ahmed were his "given" names one by the grandfather and the other by his mother. But due to patriarchal Arab society and early death of his mother in his childhood the name given by his grandfather persisted more than Ahmed, but still it was his second name.



he means the widely term usage of mohammad or ahmed in a concept of free reign over gods message and words.

when rss nazis will sorround qadiyan they will come with new indian theory about islam

inko gangu nahi kehte tum. biraadri tumhari hai ye


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## ali_raza

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> This forum is about Pakistan and many Ahmadis are also Pakistani.
> 
> The threat to Pakistan isn't from Ahmadis - Ahmadis haven't carried out suicide bombings in the TTP, JuA, LeJ ... they haven't been recruited by Iran to fight in terrorist proxy groups in other countries or engaged in violent sectarian conflicts at home.
> 
> Ahmadis are not the ones on our North West claiming Pakistani territory all the way to the Indus, or on our East with a million plus Army dreaming about the disintegration of Pakistan & Akhand Bharat.


still this country was made on the name of religion 
the more we side track from the basic the more we will kill the idea of pakistan
thise who doesn’t like ut this way might as well take there sorry asses to india
cos this is important

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## Blacklight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> This forum is about Pakistan and many Ahmadis are also Pakistani.
> 
> The threat to Pakistan isn't from Ahmadis - Ahmadis haven't carried out suicide bombings in the TTP, JuA, LeJ ... they haven't been recruited by Iran to fight in terrorist proxy groups in other countries or engaged in violent sectarian conflicts at home.
> 
> Ahmadis are not the ones on our North West claiming Pakistani territory all the way to the Indus, or on our East with a million plus Army dreaming about the disintegration of Pakistan & Akhand Bharat.


How naive of you. Is that all?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Death Professor said:


> A muslim might know but a non-muslim might not know the difference.


Please explain what negative thing would occur if a non-Muslim does not know the difference?


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## El Sidd

ali_raza said:


> wht do u suggest?


I would have suggested a census and lawmaking regarding illegals and refugees born in Pakistan and that would automatically give them a chance to escape the cult and register themselves as muslims. 

but tribal land politics won't let it happen. 


ali_raza said:


> can’t exactly comprehend wgt u mean



they are too rich and too bold that they feel they can have a go at it. money money money

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Blacklight said:


> How naive of you. Is that all?


Since you have nothing else to offer, of course that is all.

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## Blacklight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Since you have nothing else to offer, of course that is all.


To someone who is clueless, and goes of on random tangents, absolutely nothing to offer. You got that right!

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Blacklight said:


> To someone who is clueless, and goes of on random tangents, absolutely nothing to offer. You got that right!


Ah yes, random tangents such as some useless comment about 'Khafee and his views about this forum'.


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## Death Professor

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Please explain what negative thing would occur if a non-Muslim does not know the difference?



Hmmm, I am thinking of changing the word i used. Should have used, possible-muslim-revert instead of non-muslim. Well this will start a new debate that they disguise themselves as muslim and misguide potential muslim reverts to their religion.

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## El Sidd

Death Professor said:


> Hmmm, I am thinking of changing the word i used. Should have used, possible-muslim-revert instead of non-muslim. Well this will start a new debate that they disguise themselves as muslim and misguide potential muslim reverts to their religion.



Bhai ye Kartarpur se road Qadiyan jati hai. Wahan se tourism economy lane ka mast plan becha hai kisine handsome ko



Death Professor said:


> Hmmm, I am thinking of changing the word i used. Should have used, possible-muslim-revert instead of non-muslim. Well this will start a new debate that they disguise themselves as muslim and misguide potential muslim reverts to their religion.



apne to pora aalmi plan hi banaya hai laken simple 4 zillon ki baat hai wahan ki zameen or khayth or local historical ruling class and their charade to keep on top.

awein complicate na kar hahahaha


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## Death Professor

El Sidd said:


> Bhai ye Kartarpur se road Qadiyan jati hai. Wahan se tourism economy lane ka mast plan becha hai kisine handsome ko



Have to confirm it, didn't even thought that far. Par iss trah tou dollars niklien gay, ayein gay nahi....


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## El Sidd

Death Professor said:


> Have to confirm it, didn't even thought that far. Par iss trah tou dollars niklien gay, ayein gay nahi....



haha bahir se remittance kal maang to raha tha akar tv per.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Death Professor said:


> Hmmm, I am thinking of changing the word i used. Should have used, possible-muslim-revert instead of non-muslim. Well this will start a new debate that they disguise themselves as muslim and misguide potential muslim reverts to their religion.


I would argue that a mainstream Muslim that cannot recognize a basic tenet of mainstream Islam such as the finality of the prophethood of Mohammed PBUH isn’t going to be much of a loss if he/she converts to the Ahmadi faith.


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## Blacklight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Ah yes, *random tangents *such as some useless comment about 'Khafee and his views about this forum'.


No. The following one, totally uncalled for, but in a way it is good that you exposed your insecurities. 



AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Like I said, grow up and learn to control your insecurities. If Allah really needed bigots to go around burning people at the crescent to 'protect Islam and the Prophet', Islam would have died out long ago.
> 
> As it is, look at the condition of Muslims worldwide - all this hatred, intolerance and prejudice has brought us nothing other than backwardness, violence and stupidity.



As to Khafee - he said this forum is pro-Qadiani and you are proving him right.


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## El Sidd

Turingsage said:


> I personally have my own theory based on observation of IK and Pakistan over the last year.
> 
> As I have said previously IK has found that running Pakistan and making fabulous promises to get there are 2 different things. He has tried many courses of action only to find nothing he does works and the Awam is loosing all that faith they had placed in him.
> 
> He however is aware of 1 thing that DOES work . That unites all the disparate politics and cements, the military the establishment, and Pakistans awam.
> 
> Its the familiar theme of demonising all Indians. Having Modi as PM is a incidental bonus. IK feels if he , his ministers , the contained media and the military daily constantly sing the same hyme of Muslims in danger , he can ride this horse down to the finish line.
> Write letters to OIC, the UN , call Trump, call Boris keep hammering just that one tune on the one hand, and quietly beg for money with the other.
> The Pakistani Awam will no longer notice the multiple catastrophic failures he has managed to engineer in such a short time.
> They will be so engaged in his diatribes , he feels, he will escape the judgement of the people and the military establishment who never had to be asked twice in the hate india campaign
> 
> IF I am right , IK will devote more and more time railing against India in the hope he will ride out the coming tsunami.



you overestimate him too much. he doesn't think that far nor long

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## Death Professor

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I would argue that a mainstream Muslim that cannot recognize a basic tenet of mainstream Islam such as the finality of the prophethood of Mohammed PBUH isn’t going to be much of a loss if he/she converts to the Ahmadi faith.



Well I was talking about this context: "every child is born a muslim". So in that case if a "non-muslim" is trying to revert back to being muslim, for them they present another religion which on the face looks like ours but actually isn't. 

My mistake I shouldn't over complicate things...


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## ali_raza

El Sidd said:


> Bhai ye Kartarpur se road Qadiyan jati hai. Wahan se tourism economy lane ka mast plan becha hai kisine handsome ko
> 
> 
> 
> apne to pora aalmi plan hi banaya hai laken simple 4 zillon ki baat hai wahan ki zameen or khayth or local historical ruling class and their charade to keep on top.
> 
> awein complicate na kar hahahaha


why r all qadianis and there supporters burned suddenly 
why not leave this country for good

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## El Sidd

Brass Knuckles said:


> Waisay TV walay unko mirzai kyon nhi kehtay? Their leader's name was Mirza ghulam Ahmed. Mirza sa mirzai and from Qadiyan sa qadiyani



logically it should be whatever their caliph name is at the moment.

inka tv channel ata hai. ajtak to kabhi kuch acha nahi suna Pakistan ke baray me

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## ali_raza

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I would argue that a mainstream Muslim that cannot recognize a basic tenet of mainstream Islam such as the finality of the prophethood of Mohammed PBUH isn’t going to be much of a loss if he/she converts to the Ahmadi faith.


u better keep ur views upto urself

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## El Sidd

ali_raza said:


> why r all qadianis and there supporters burned suddenly
> why not leave this country for good



Why should they leave? they can stay and invite their caliph to live with them too.

its their country as well


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## ali_raza

Blacklight said:


> No. The following one, totally uncalled for, but in a way it is good that you exposed your insecurities.
> 
> 
> 
> As to Khafee - he said this forum is pro-Qadiani and you are proving him right.


i suspect many to be qadianis themselves



El Sidd said:


> Why should they leave? they can stay and invite their caliph to live with them too.
> 
> its their country as well


sure by all means
no problem in that but not as a muslim but as a minority 
like soo many hindu sikh christians r there
issue is do not confuse islam
qadiani and there khalifa can dance naked all day for all i care.
but do not take liberties of calling themselves muslims in a country which was made on the name of islam

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## B.K.N

El Sidd said:


> logically it should be whatever their caliph name is at the moment.
> 
> inka tv channel ata hai. ajtak to kabhi kuch acha nahi suna Pakistan ke baray me


Waisay this news is not true.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1255602953500622848


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## Blacklight

ali_raza said:


> i suspect many to be qadianis themselves



Luckily this thread has brought a lot of them out of the closet.

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## El Sidd

ali_raza said:


> but do not take liberties of calling themselves muslims in a country which was made on the name of islam



best time to ask your local government representative. 

bula lo turkey embassy unko salam dua kay liye

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## ali_raza

Blacklight said:


> Luckily this thread has brought a lot of them out of the closet.


burn is deep buddy



El Sidd said:


> best time to ask your local government representative.
> 
> bula lo turkey embassy unko salam dua kay liye


wht has turkish embasy has to do anything with this

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## El Sidd

Brass Knuckles said:


> Waisay this news is not true.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1255602953500622848



NAB thread per isse bara mafia hai. wahan discussion hi nahi hona. 

why

because mulk me ek hi musalman hai baqi sab aqliyat

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## Blacklight

ali_raza said:


> issue is do not confuse islam
> qadiani and there khalifa can dance naked all day for all i care.
> but do not take liberties of calling themselves muslims in a country which was made on the name of islam



And this is the very point, people in this thread are defending.


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## El Sidd

ali_raza said:


> wht has turkish embasy has to do anything with this



they have advanced method of dealing with cults.

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## darksider

Moonlight said:


> The problem is, Ahmedi community doesn’t want to be called minority and putting them into majority class would incite hatred and for a very valid reason. This country is declared an Islamic country and according to Islam, prophet Muhammad (saw) is the final prophet & they deny it. So what option is left?
> I firmly believe, they should have all the freedom to practice their religion though.


They call them selves Muslims.they will not tell you they are qadianis.so now they are in majority or in minority both.i think with this they will get one or two reserve seats in na.which they couldn't get other wise.let them call them selves no Muslim then give them this status.

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## ali_raza

Blacklight said:


> And this is the very point, people in this thread are defending.


let them expose themselves 
will wait for real faces to show

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## Moonlight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I do not see Islam supporting the laws against Ahmadis in Pakistan, so yes, I'll go so far as to say that our treatment of Ahmadis in Pakistan is un-Islamic.



But according to Islam, your deen is not completed if you deny the finality of the last messenger. And people of this sect not only deny the fact that prophet Muhammad saw is the last prophet but they also have replaced it with another human being & call him the last prophet. Isn’t it blasphemy?

Being a civilized nation, we should protect their rights & that’s all. 

But they can’t cherry pick in Islam. That’s it. That’s the post.

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## Zibago

Although I have no objection to that BUT nothing has been passed to begin with

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## ali_raza

darksider said:


> They call them selves Muslims.they will not tell you theyvare qadianis.so now they are in majority or in minority both.i think with this they will get one or two reserve seats in na.which they couldn't get other wise.let them callthem selves no Muslim then give them tgus status.


yea sure
but then they will stay in line of non muslims
confusion is the killer 
they r not muslims

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## darksider

Crusher said:


> Growing up in Gujranwala I only heard the term "marzai" for them, I got introduced to "qadiani" term only through newspapers and media who usually create their own terms for people which are often not even used by common people on the street. On the street in Punjab, 99% of the common people call them "marzai". But these days I have noticed that Imran Khan's government is trying to popularize the "ahmadi" term on the media.


Oh some one from my city.nice to see you brother.

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## Zibago

Yaseen1 said:


> this govt is proxy of antiPakistan forces and should be removed as soon as possible to secure Pakistan


Bugger off twat



Yaseen1 said:


> there was no need of such proceeding by govt when country is facing problems due to pandemic,timing of such action suggest that they are deliberately doing this to create unrest,soon people will gather in large numbers for protests which will spread more corona virus and will cause more damage to economy,govt actions clearly show that they want to damage country


There will be no protest the party that coukd do such protests has been significantly weakened



Crusher said:


> This is a unrecognized terminology, on the ground they are called "marzai/mirzai" by the common people on the street and "qadianis" by the more sophisticated people in the media.


His name was Mirza Ahmad Qadian so depends on the person really


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## ali_raza

Moonlight said:


> But according to Islam, your deen is not completed if you deny the finality of the last messenger. And people of this sect not only deny the fact that prophet Muhammad saw is the last prophet but they also have replaced it with another human being & call him the last prophet. Isn’t it blasphemy?
> 
> Being a civilized nation, we should protect their rights & that’s all.
> 
> But they can’t cherry pick in Islam. That’s it. That’s the post.


when u become a muslim u don’t cherry pick options 
like a car with extras
is either u r a complete muslim or u r non muslim 
ahmedis or who ever they call r non muslims

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## Nasr

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Did you even read what you wrote?
> 
> Please, please tell me that was sarcasm ...
> 
> Do I really need to explain how your statement is so arse backwards and contradictory?
> 
> YOU want to impose conditions like "_As long as they accept the fact that they are not Muslim, and don't go parading around claiming to be Muslim_" and then say "_they are allowed to practice their faith_".



I know exactly what I posted, failure is on your part for not using your brain!!

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## Moonlight

ali_raza said:


> when u become a muslim u don’t cherry pick options
> like a car with extras
> is either u r a complete muslim or u r non muslim
> ahmedis or who ever they call r non muslims



that’s my point...they like to be labeled as “Muslims “ with rejecting the most important belief of this deen.

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## El Sidd

Dharna Hoga !!


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## Moonlight

El Sidd said:


> Dharna Hoga !!



After Ramadan please.


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## El Sidd

Moonlight said:


> After Ramadan please.



why?

this happened in Ramadan too


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## Zibago

Brass Knuckles said:


> What if government says this molvi is proxy of anti Pakistan forces? And was involved in terrorism. What would he do? These people should stay within their auqat no one says anything to them because they are irrelevant more than 99 percent Pakistanis don't even know their names.


Ye dhakan Pakistan sey bahar rehta hy bongiyan mar raha hy

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1255575220779397124

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## El Sidd

Brass Knuckles said:


> Government should buy some posisnous tear gas rubber bullets etc.



chai biscuit ke paise nahi hai aur chale tear gas lene

80 jhande talay 80 80 hazaar ka majma le aa. jaa azadi hai. hum dekh lenge


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## Moonlight

El Sidd said:


> why?
> 
> this happened in Ramadan too



I won’t be able to make it.


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## El Sidd

Moonlight said:


> I won’t be able to make it.



khair hai 127 din bethenge ajana baad me. fresh qeema naan mon solva utrega aja


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## Pakistansdefender

Death Professor said:


> Different but interesting point of views.


This is fake news.


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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

Can you please explain your argument properly. Either qadianis are minorities in the eyes of the government and they should be included in the minority commission or they are not minority, therefore Muslim, which means they have the same privilege as muslims in Pakistan. 

This should be celebrated because now we can finally out this stupid topic to bed whether they are Muslim or not, and the govt did that. 

Qadianis are going to be declared a minority religion and therefore get the privileges of minorities.

So why are you all crying????


Yaseen1 said:


> this govt is proxy of antiPakistan forces and should be removed as soon as possible to secure Pakistan


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## Pakistansdefender

El Sidd said:


> It will give rise to many opportunities
> 
> even one is enough as per fundamentals of the constitution. remember that one jewish guy in Pakistan thread.
> 
> what do you think is the issue they wanna divert things from
> 
> 
> Mosques are community centers. Without a community debate, such measures are an insult to democracy
> 
> 
> 
> There is a NAB ordinance floating around as well. Maybe they are masking the issue through this.
> 
> its not even clever enough. people are frustrated as hell.
> 
> its like inviting civil disobedience and another nro


Kamaran Khan did a very detailed piece that was fake news. That piece was prepared by farooq h naik years ago


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## El Sidd

Pakistansdefender said:


> Kamaran Khan did a very detailed piece that was fake news. That piece was prepared by farooq h naik years ago



Every bill passed by this or previous government was drafted by Charter of Democracy.

So its a moo point.

There is also a bill ready for Israel too and to put armed forces under provincial authority for merit conduct as well. 

So easy on the imrani juice


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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

That's bullshit argument. Ismailis are considered a separate religion in the eyes of the Pakistani law, so then why are you crying that qadianis are now considered minorities???? I'm honestly baffled by the idiocy of people on this thread.


El Sidd said:


> Says who? Debate is a must
> 
> 
> Qadiyan is a city in India.
> 
> That's not how it works now does it. You cannot go around giving every 3rd world cult a religion status.
> 
> A country's legislature simply does not work like that. Neither they do become automatic Muslims nor they have a uniform set of beliefs that fulfill requirements of a separate religion.
> 
> The distinction of being non Muslim is enough.

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## Pakistansdefender

El Sidd said:


> The same options that worked till now.
> 
> What problems have they been facing or aim to resolve with this legislation?


First there is no legislation. 
They talked about including qadiyani in minority comsmission that's it. 
92news has some problem. We all know where qadiyani live. Those who hate them so much must go and kill thembfor all we care. Muslim wo hain nhn. Non Muslim kaho tub bhi masla hai. Chahta kaya ho. Anyways nothing was dissccused. This news that some order has been done to include them in minority commission is fake. Debate was held while no such decision was taken..

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## El Sidd

Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> That's bullshit argument. Ismailis are considered a separate religion in the eyes of the Pakistani law, so then why are you crying that qadianis are now considered minorities???? I'm honestly baffled by the idiocy of people on this thread.



when qadiyani faith survives the test of time as done by ismailis, they can be included in the list.

nobody is interested in feudal cults exploiting tribal ethics in the country.


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## GumNaam

I don't get it, why is there 10 pages worth of hoopla over this? qadiyanis are NOT Muslims and therefore a minority which gives them a place in the minorities commission...if ANYTHING, PTI has FURTHER strengthened the fact that qadiyanis are not Muslims. so what is everyone whining about?

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## Pakistansdefender

El Sidd said:


> and they sealed off those mosques. now only jai imran jai can be heard from there not invitation to prosperity and peace.
> 
> amazing ain't it Tohir Yoldashev


In punjab and kpk and Islamabad all Mosques are open. Please don't do propaganda on mosque. You also try visit mosque once in your lifetime.


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## El Sidd

Pakistansdefender said:


> This news that some order has been done to include them in minority commission is fake. Debate was held while no such decision was taken..



do you think PTI will finally be able to do what PMLN and PPP failed to do? 

take out NAB and provide constitutional protection to corruption?


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## I.R.A

Zibago said:


> His name was Mirza Ahmad Qadian so depends on the person really




Ghulam Ahmed Mirza.

Logically they should call themselves Ghulami or Mirzai. Calling them Ahmedis is plain wrong and illogical.

They apparently have two sects, one who considers Mr GAM Mahdi and the other who considers him a prophet. Like any other the division occurred mainly from the claims to authority and resources.

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## El Sidd

Pakistansdefender said:


> In punjab and kpk and Islamabad all Mosques are open. Please don't do propaganda on mosque. You also try visit mosque once in your lifetime.



So Sindh is waiting for Iran?

There is proper lockdown in Sindh.


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## Pakistansdefender

Blacklight said:


> NOTHING is shameful or embarrassing about defending the finality of the Prophet-hood SAWS!
> 
> Sorry to have met you.


You alone are not the caretaker. I am too as is other Muslims. What do you want to do with them? Kill them. Or let them live as minority?

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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

El Sidd said:


> The same options that worked till now.
> 
> What problems have they been facing or aim to resolve with this legislation?


What the **** do you mean the same Option, they've been undeclared since the creation of Pakistan's constitution. They've been labled as non Muslim but denied the label of minority

Are you so ignorant in your hatred that you're trying to justify having then on Limbo till the day of judgment????

Just put those mofos in the minority list if you're not going to make them Muslims, and they're not Muslims so then they automatically are minorities.

That's like saying this person is #1 but that person isn't #2 but he isn't #1 either.

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## Pakistansdefender

El Sidd said:


> So Sindh is waiting for Iran?
> 
> There is proper lockdown in Sindh.


Sindh has ppp government that would fight to death for 18th amendment? Right. 
And now you don't want 18th amendment to go and want federation to do everything? 
Not possible.


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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

Blacklight said:


> Because "they" are yet to admit that they are a minority. According to their rehtoric, it is the others i.e. Shia + Sunni who are non-Muslims. Qadianis need to stop being confused, and pick a side.


Ismailis think they're Muslims. But they've been declared non Muslims by Pakistani law back in 1980s. So why are you complaining????

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## El Sidd

Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> What the **** do you mean the same Option, they've been undeclared since the creation of Pakistan's constitution. They've been labled as non Muslim but denied the label of minority
> 
> Are you so ignorant in your hatred that you're trying to justify having then on Limbo till the day of judgment????
> 
> Just put those mofos in the minority list if you're not going to make them Muslims, and they're not Muslims so then they automatically are minorities.
> 
> That's like saying this person is #1 but that person isn't #2 but he isn't #1 either.



You can point out what are the benefits as per law between the two.

Or any particular benefit between a declared religious minority versus undeclared religious minority. 

We are not interested in British protectionism when it comes to exploitation of the people by tribal cults.


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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

El Sidd said:


> When you fill a form there is an option of others.
> 
> What beneficial corruption scheme do the Qadiyanis intend to achieve by this? There is simply no debate as to why this lawmaking was needed and to tackle what governance issue borne out of the simple fact that cults don't get religion status in Pakistan.


Beta ismailis and Baha'i are both considered cults and offshoots from mainstream Islam. Yet they are both considered minorities by Pakistani Law. So stop b!itching please

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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

Yaseen1 said:


> i think after govt such action to favor qadyanis unjustly more people will gather in mosques as it seems that govt want to end freedom of Muslims for prayers but want to give this to qadyanis which cannot be tolerated and we will protect our religious freedom at any cost


You sound like a Bible bashing redneck like we have here in America. Which shouldn't be surprising because you have a lot in common with them, ignorance being one of those commonalities.

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## El Sidd

Pakistansdefender said:


> Sindh has ppp government that would fight to death for 18th amendment? Right.
> And now you don't want 18th amendment to go and want federation to do everything?
> Not possible.



any and every system works if you want it to work.

good that you bring amendment. will this be a constitutional amendment or executive ordinance by the rahem dil hatem tai badshah e taunsa?


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## Pakistansdefender

Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> Ismailis think they're Muslims. But they've been declared non Muslims by Pakistani law back in 1980s. So why are you complaining????


Ismalis are not. They are sect of Shia and are Muslims. Please don't say this majority of gilgit baltistan is ismali. Please they are total Muslims even better then us.

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## El Sidd

Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> Beta ismailis and Baha'i are both considered cults and offshoots from mainstream Islam. Yet they are both considered minorities by Pakistani Law. So stop b!itching please



That is a matter of parliament debate now for qadiyanis that boat sailed away long time ago.

even agha khanis were lucky enough.

stop provoking Muslims for mere fun


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## Pakistansdefender

El Sidd said:


> any and every system works if you want it to work.
> 
> good that you bring amendment. will this be a constitutional amendment or executive ordinance by the rahem dil hatem tai badshah e taunsa?


You better know you have inside information. But I hope it goes anyway m



El Sidd said:


> That is a matter of parliament debate now for qadiyanis that boat sailed away long time ago.
> 
> even agha khanis were lucky enough.
> 
> stop provoking Muslims for mere fun


Please go and read something about bahaia. They have nothing to do with Islam. They are something like qadiyanis. But originated in Iran with their own prophet. 
But they don't claim Islam or something. Where as Ismalis are a sect of Shia. They have an imam. And they follow shia practices mostly.


----------



## Salahuddin Ayyubi

El Sidd said:


> You can point out what are the benefits as per law between the two.
> 
> Or any particular benefit between a declared religious minority versus undeclared religious minority.
> 
> We are not interested in British protectionism when it comes to exploitation of the people by tribal cults.


What about ismailis and Baha'i then??? They are cults that were offshoots from mainstream Islam and yet we declared them minorities long time ago. So why don't we just declare qadianis as minorities. No religion is above Humanity. Just because they are gumrah and Kafir doesn't mean we don't give them the rights and freedom of minorities as they deserve.


----------



## El Sidd

Pakistansdefender said:


> You better know you have inside information. But I hope it goes anyway m



Maybe Government simply wants to give up?

maybe Khan is best being an opposition leader who can make others work that way cause he ain't sure got no idea how Pakistanis work.

Khan thinks he lives in some idyllic 70s hippie island.


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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

Pakistansdefender said:


> Ismalis are not. They are sect of Shia and are Muslims. Please don't say this majority of gilgit baltistan is ismali. Please they are total Muslims even better then us.


Ismailis were declared non Muslim by Pakistani Law back in the 80s mate. Ask you father or mother. You probably weren't old enough to know that. So what justification do you give now? Ismailis religion is very far off from Shia Islam to the point that even Iran considers in an offshoot cult just like alawites of Syria, they are also considered non Muslims by the wider Muslim community. Go do your research and study before making an argument please kid


----------



## Salahuddin Ayyubi

El Sidd said:


> That is a matter of parliament debate now for qadiyanis that boat sailed away long time ago.
> 
> even agha khanis were lucky enough.
> 
> stop provoking Muslims for mere fun


You're a known troll and you want to tell me about provocation??? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Everyone here calls you a troll so let's not throw stones while in a glass house


----------



## Pakistansdefender

El Sidd said:


> Maybe Government simply wants to give up?
> 
> maybe Khan is best being an opposition leader who can make others work that way cause he ain't sure got no idea how Pakistanis work.
> 
> Khan thinks he lives in some idyllic 70s hippie island.


Maybe the same is true for you. 
You people just don't have the idea of the outside world with so much immersed in your own pathetic lives and daily activities. A common was not even have the capacity to even pass on these big judgements. The issues are too big and the way forwards is too tough. Nothing could be achieved unless working hard. 2 generations die working hard so that the third one would be prosperous. That how the world works. Besides confused as the product of this nation unable to. Understand if Marshall Law is better or democracy. Or if democracy is better then what form. Unable to even run local bodies. Unable to even become a nation. Unable to even decide on moon sighting. The berelvis would kill wahabis and the wahabis would kill berelvis. Extremist mindset still perivail. Everyone want everything on a hot plate. We are no dubai. We have no natural resources of yet. We have to work hard like turkey.


----------



## El Sidd

Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> What about ismailis and Baha'i then??? They are cults that were offshoots from mainstream Islam and yet we declared them minorities long time ago. So why don't we just declare qadianis as minorities. No religion is above Humanity. Just because they are gumrah and Kafir doesn't mean we don't give them the rights and freedom of minorities as they deserve.



why don't you point out those rights that you think are missing. if this distinction is so well important. it begs the question what exactly are they being deprived off by other domination.

simple question this. even the courts will ask this.

Bahais and Alevis and Ismailis are a settled issue within the community. Pakistan strictly defines what constitutes a Muslim in legal islamic jurisprudence. 

Islamic Ideology council can however guide you better in this regard. Their first caliph declared all Muslims as Kafirs after they rejected the message of his father, founder of the cult of Qadiyan.


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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

Pakistansdefender said:


> You better know you have inside information. But I hope it goes anyway m
> 
> 
> Please go and read something about bahaia. They have nothing to do with Islam. They are something like qadiyanis. But originated in Iran with their own prophet.
> But they don't claim Islam or something. Where as Ismalis are a sect of Shia. They have an imam. And they follow shia practices mostly.


Baha'i consider them an update of Islam just like qadianis and they call themselves true believers and Muslims, you have clearly never met a Baha'i. I had the unfortunate of meeting a group and they consider themselves "new Muslims" as they say it. So yes they do consider themselves as Muslim just like qadianis do. 
.and if Ismailis are a branch of Shia Islam then why does both Pakistan and Iran consider them non Muslims in their respective jurisprudence system??? Why are ismailis included in the list of minorities????

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## El Sidd

Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> You're a known troll and you want to tell me about provocation??? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Everyone here calls you a troll so let's not throw stones while in a glass house


but no one would ever call you Salahuddin Ayyubi


Pakistansdefender said:


> Maybe the same is true for you.
> You people just don't have the idea of the outside world with so much immersed in your own pathetic lives and daily activities. A common was not even have the capacity to even pass on these big judgements. The issues are too big and the way forwards is too tough. Nothing could be achieved unless working hard. 2 generations die working hard so that the third one would be prosperous. That how the world works. Besides confused as the product of this nation unable to. Understand if Marshall Law is better or democracy. Or if democracy is better then what form. Unable to even run local bodies. Unable to even become a nation. Unable to even decide on moon sighting. The berelvis would kill wahabis and the wahabis would kill berelvis. Extremist mindset still perivail. Everyone want everything on a hot plate. We are no dubai. We have no natural resources of yet. We have to work hard like turkey.



You are too afraid to even try governance for a change.

Everyone comes prepared out on the streets with excuses straight out of the Bible.

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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

El Sidd said:


> why don't you point out those rights that you think are missing. if this distinction is so well important. it begs the question what exactly are they being deprived off by other domination.
> 
> simple question this. even the courts will ask this.
> 
> Bahais and Alevis and Ismailis are a settled issue within the community. Pakistan strictly defines what constitutes a Muslim in legal islamic jurisprudence.
> 
> Islamic Ideology council can however guide you better in this regard. Their first caliph declared all Muslims as Kafirs after they rejected the message of his father, founder of the cult of Qadiyan.


Why should I provide?? You're the one crying because their name is being placed in the list of minorities. So you should tell me why shouldn't they be placed in the list and what rights they are denied that other minorities are provided. Because there are many things that they are denied, such as govt and civil jobs being just one. So because you're crying, you should be the one to justify why they are not a minority like ismailis and Baha'i

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## El Sidd

Pakistansdefender said:


> Please go and read something about bahaia. They have nothing to do with Islam. They are something like qadiyanis. But originated in Iran with their own prophet.
> But they don't claim Islam or something. Where as Ismalis are a sect of Shia. They have an imam. And they follow shia practices mostly.



Religious discussions are not allowed on the forum jazbaati naujawan.

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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

El Sidd said:


> but no one would ever call you Salahuddin Ayyubi
> 
> 
> You are too afraid to even try governance for a change.
> 
> Everyone comes prepared out on the streets with excuses straight out of the Bible.


I don't care what they call me, at least they don't call me a troll like they call you, at least everyone knows I didn't have multiple accounts like you did before. Do you think no one remembers [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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## BHarwana

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1255627478686629890
Plz lock this thread now. 

Mods.

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## El Sidd

Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> Why should I provide?? You're the one crying because their name is being placed in the list of minorities. So you should tell me why shouldn't they be placed in the list and what rights they are denied that other minorities are provided. Because there are many things that they are denied, such as govt and civil jobs being just one. So because you're crying, you should be the one to justify why they are not a minority like ismailis and Baha'i



because it is unconstitutional to grant protection of religion status to cults. exploitation of any and every kind is illegal in Pakistan. 

and i am asking the government the same question and speculating what could possibly be the reason which obviously is money and possible soft power in Indian Punjab.



Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> I don't care what they call me, at least they don't call me a troll like they call you, at least everyone knows I didn't have multiple accounts like you did before. Do you think no one remembers [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]



@Slav Defence

iska masla hal karo


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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

El Sidd said:


> because it is unconstitutional to grant protection of religion status to cults. exploitation of any and every kind is illegal in Pakistan.
> 
> and i am asking the government the same question and speculating what could possibly be the reason which obviously is money and possible soft power in Indian Punjab.
> 
> 
> 
> @Slav Defence
> 
> iska masla hal karo


If it is illegal then why did ismailis and Baha'i get placed in the list of minority religions????

Please do you research before replying back. Are you all so young on this forum that non of you have any knowledge or education???


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## El Sidd

Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> If it is illegal then why did ismailis and Baha'i get placed in the list of minority religions????
> 
> Please do you research before replying back. Are you all so young on this forum that non of you have any knowledge or education???



because there is a consensus among the muslim ummah on them just like the consensus was reached for the qadiyanis.

neither the bahai caliph nor the ismaili imam have done takfeer on Muslims in Pakistan nor their appointees.


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## Pakistansdefender

El Sidd said:


> but no one would ever call you Salahuddin Ayyubi
> 
> 
> You are too afraid to even try governance for a change.
> 
> Everyone comes prepared out on the streets with excuses straight out of the Bible.


What kind of governance you want dead?
A person sitting in the capital developing that capital and that not too goods while the whole province goes down hill. And not even talk about other provinces. 
They are doing the best they can. You can do everything with money. In Feb there was local bodies election.. They would come after this carona scare. Besides as government have money they can spend more on improving the existing schools and hospitals. And as income increase built. 
We are 7th largest milk producing country and unable to even produce enough that it prices go down like 50.per liter. We do not even produce butter that it is cheaply avaliable. We do not even sow lentils. We cannot even make meat cheap. In every country the basic things they consume are dirt cheap.
And this is a mechanism. If policies would be right now, 10 years below the line we would try to See some improvement.
Every district should develop own its own with its capital city as head quarters and surrounding cities and villages vice versa. And so is the local bodies system that is going to come. 
Pm and even cm cannot come to built an ordinary road in some remote place. That's why our cities and in short governance standards have fallen. Look at Iran their governance is excellent. Not because of an 3xcellent leader. But because of an excellent system I choose to give example of Iran not out of love but out of comparison of both been poor and a sactioned etc. Even a bad ruler comes there the instructions continue to work for their districts. This current system of a single cm controlling everything has led to deterioration of dirty cities, bad infrastructure and no proper sweage and other facilities. Also no health and education facilities.


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## Yaseen1

they not accept themselves as nonMuslims but want to avail privileges under umbrella of minorities and continue to preach their religion by using Islamic symbols ,in past govt also removed the condition of Khatm e Nabovat from Hajj forms to benefit them as minorities cannot perform Hajj ,all these proceedings show that they actually want to achieve their other objective which is to convert poor Muslims in Pakistan to their religion by offering them huge money and foreign visas like they did in past


Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> You sound like a Bible bashing redneck like we have here in America. Which shouldn't be surprising because you have a lot in common with them, ignorance being one of those commonalities.

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## Moonlight

Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> Ismailis think they're Muslims. But they've been declared non Muslims by Pakistani law back in 1980s. So why are you complaining????



It’s a branch of a whole big second prominent sect. That makes no sense to compare them with Qaydanis.

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## ali_raza

El Sidd said:


> because there is a consensus among the muslim ummah on them just like the consensus was reached for the qadiyanis.
> 
> neither the bahai caliph nor the ismaili imam have done takfeer on Muslims in Pakistan nor their appointees.


buddy a simple question 
r u qadiani?


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## El Sidd

ali_raza said:


> buddy a simple question
> r u qadiani?



no



Pakistansdefender said:


> What kind of governance you want dead?
> A person sitting in the capital developing that capital and that not too goods while the whole province goes down hill. And not even talk about other provinces.
> They are doing the best they can. You can do everything with money. In Feb there was local bodies election.. They would come after this carona scare. Besides as government have money they can spend more on improving the existing schools and hospitals. And as income increase built.
> We are 7th largest milk producing country and unable to even produce enough that it prices go down like 50.per liter. We do not even produce butter that it is cheaply avaliable. We do not even sow lentils. We cannot even make meat cheap. In every country the basic things they consume are dirt cheap.
> And this is a mechanism. If policies would be right now, 10 years below the line we would try to See some improvement.
> Every district should develop own its own with its capital city as head quarters and surrounding cities and villages vice versa. And so is the local bodies system that is going to come.
> Pm and even cm cannot come to built an ordinary road in some remote place. That's why our cities and in short governance standards have fallen. Look at Iran their governance is excellent. Not because of an 3xcellent leader. But because of an excellent system I choose to give example of Iran not out of love but out of comparison of both been poor and a sactioned etc. Even a bad ruler comes there the instructions continue to work for their districts. This current system of a single cm controlling everything has led to deterioration of dirty cities, bad infrastructure and no proper sweage and other facilities. Also no health and education facilities.



and your solution is keeping the current system going with a beautiful face?


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## Moonlight

@jaibi @Slav Defence this thread should be locked now.


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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

El Sidd said:


> because there is a consensus among the muslim ummah on them just like the consensus was reached for the qadiyanis.
> 
> neither the bahai caliph nor the ismaili imam have done takfeer on Muslims in Pakistan nor their appointees.


Mate go do your research on Baha'i imams, they have done takfeer on mainstream Muslims during the time they lived and that takfeer applies to modern day Muslims. 

And according to you if a group hasn't done takfeer then they should be allowed in the minority list of religions? How far up your arse did you had to pull out this excuse? Why don't you just admit you're wrong.

Alawites, who formed from an offshoot of Shia islam never did takfeer on other Shia Muslims but they in unequivocally termed as non Muslims by all Shia sects and also by all Sunni Muslims. 

What other weak excuses are you going to throw at me. I enjoy educating kids like you who think they know everything when in reality they know nothing


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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

Yaseen1 said:


> they not accept themselves as nonMuslims but want to avail privileges under umbrella of minorities and continue to preach their religion by using Islamic symbols ,in past govt also removed the condition of Khatm e Nabovat from Hajj forms to benefit them as minorities cannot perform Hajj ,all these proceedings show that they actually want to achieve their other objective which is to convert poor Muslims in Pakistan to their religion by offering them huge money and foreign visas like they did in past


Ismailis don't accept themselves as non Muslims, but they are listed in the list of minority religions. They were added back in 1980s when Zia ul haq was in power. They enjoy the privileges of minorities so then why not qadianis???

Baha'i don't consider themselves non Muslim, they consider themselves New Muslims just like qadianis do, but they're also placed on the list of minority religions in Pakistan. Why then do you have a problem with qadianis???

I'll tell you why, because you allowed your anger and emotions to take over your thinking and forgot that no religion is above Humanity, none.

Doesn't matter what you believe in, you have certain rights and privileges as a human being. And qadianis are the only group of people in Pakistan that are denied those rights and don't you dare pretend like they are treated the same as every other group, because they're not. 

Stop fooling yourself and admit that you're wrong. Don't let your ego dictate your views.


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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

Moonlight said:


> It’s a branch of a whole big second prominent sect. That makes no sense to compare them with Qaydanis.


Can you read English??? Let me write it in capital for you so you can understand it better

THEY WERE DECLARED NON MUSLIM AND PLACED IN THE MINORITIES RELIGION GROUP BACK IN THE 1980s

If they were a sect of Islam, they wouldn't have been placed in the minorities religion now would they???? Read the comment before replying mate 

They're considered non Muslims by every branch of Shia Islam and they were declared non Muslims by Sunni branch of Islam in the 1970s, then each individual Muslim country passed laws in their country declaring them non Muslims over the decade, Pakistan passed the resolution back in the 80s.

So what justification or I should say excuse are you going to throw now???


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## Yaseen1

qadyanis are living much better than hindus,christans and other minorities in Pakistan,I have never seen any qadyani doing menial and lower level job like sweeper and garbage picker which Christians do in Pakistan but they live in very good build houses here and are well off so it is all fake propaganda that their rights are being violated


Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> Ismailis don't accept themselves as non Muslims, but they are listed in the list of minority religions. They were added back in 1980s when Zia ul haq was in power. They enjoy the privileges of minorities so then why not qadianis???
> 
> Baha'i don't consider themselves non Muslim, they consider themselves New Muslims just like qadianis do, but they're also placed on the list of minority religions in Pakistan. Why then do you have a problem with qadianis???
> 
> I'll tell you why, because you allowed your anger and emotions to take over your thinking and forgot that no religion is above Humanity, none.
> 
> Doesn't matter what you believe in, you have certain rights and privileges as a human being. And qadianis are the only group of people in Pakistan that are denied those rights and don't you dare pretend like they are treated the same as every other group, because they're not.
> 
> Stop fooling yourself and admit that you're wrong. Don't let your ego dictate your views.


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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

Yaseen1 said:


> qadyanis are living much better than hindus,christans and other minorities in Pakistan,I have never seen any qadyani doing menial and lower level job like sweeper and garbage picker which Christians do in Pakistan but they live in very good build houses here and are well off so it is all fake propaganda that their rights are being violated


You purposely avoided my whole reply because you knew you had no response to it. 

I want your response on Ismailis and Baha'i. 

I want you to respond to what I wrote about them

And don't try to change the topic now

If you don't think they're rights are being taken away then why cry over putting them on the minority list? What rights can they possibly receive that they don't already have, according to you??

I'll wait for your response about my ismailis and Baha'i comment. Today I'll teach you history and make sure you don't forget. You remind me of those people who've only taken classes in basic Islamic studies and think they're professors. Let me show you what you're too ignorant to see

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## Trango Towers

famoj47521 said:


> I am loving it.
> 
> PTI is digging its own grave. And they have no idea.
> 
> "And they plan, and ALLAH plans, and ALLAH is the best planner."


But qadianis although lost are also the creation of Allah. Does Allah like oppressors? When we muslims are overseas we want rights and these people should have rights as the white stripe in the Pakistani flag is for minorities. That include qadianis. Even I'd we dont agree with them


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## ali_raza

El Sidd said:


> no
> 
> 
> 
> and your solution is keeping the current system going with a beautiful face?


then why r u itching soo hard.
move on and let it be



Trango Towers said:


> But qadianis although lost are also the creation of Allah. Does Allah like oppressors? When we muslims are overseas we want rights and these people should have rights as the white stripe in the Pakistani flag is for minorities. That include qadianis. Even I'd we dont agree with them


so u have sympathy with qadianis now.?
and who said they r oppressed


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## GumNaam

Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> Ismailis think they're Muslims. But they've been declared non Muslims by Pakistani law back in 1980s. So why are you complaining????


Erm...Ismailis have never been declared as nonmuslims...what're you smoking!

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## Yaseen1

ismailis and bahai not commit blasphemy like qadyani do,why Muslims in Pakistan consider qadyani threat and others like ismaili etc as not threat explain that they are not ordinary minority but have linkages with foreign agencies and are largely involved in converting Muslims to qadyani by exploiting those people who are illiterate regarding Islamic teachings and suffering from poverty,they provide them with money and foreign visa in return for converting to qadyani


Salahuddin Ayyubi said:


> You purposely avoided my whole reply because you knew you had no response to it.
> 
> I want your response on Ismailis and Baha'i.
> 
> I want you to respond to what I wrote about them
> 
> And don't try to change the topic now
> 
> If you don't think they're rights are being taken away then why cry over putting them on the minority list? What rights can they possibly receive that they don't already have, according to you??
> 
> I'll wait for your response about my ismailis and Baha'i comment. Today I'll teach you history and make sure you don't forget. You remind me of those people who've only taken classes in basic Islamic studies and think they're professors. Let me show you what you're too ignorant to see

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## khail007

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> If people don't consider Ahmadis as Muslims, then they are minorities and should have a place on the National Commission on Minorities.


Exactly as you described but the issue with Qadianis/Ahmadis is that they consider them as real Muslims (though they are not) and they consider rest of Muslims (as Muslims of Pakistan) non-Muslims.
That is what their leader told to national assembly when called in for discussion in 1973 assembly on same issue.



AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> If you don't consider them minorities, then they are Muslims.


So by logic, if we consider them Muslims then we will be non-Muslims and Qadiani/Ahmad don't inclined to declare themselves minority/non-Muslim.



AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> You can't just put millions of people from a particular faith in limbo - neither minorities nor Muslims, just because you're incapable of controlling your inner bigot.


That is clear that they are non-Muslim, as they do not believe on 'ختم نبوت', but as they still consider themselves as Muslim so it is their inner bigot which has put them in this status/hot water.


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## GumNaam

Yaseen1 said:


> ismailis and bahai not commit blasphemy like qadyani do,why Muslims in Pakistan consider qadyani threat and others like ismaili etc as not threat explain that they are not ordinary minority but have linkages with foreign agencies and are largely involved in converting Muslims to qadyani by exploiting those people who are illiterate regarding Islamic teachings and suffering from poverty,they provide them with money and foreign visa in return for converting to qadyani


then three qadiyanis actually engaged in such activities with foreign intel agencies & espionage should be charged with treason & undermining national interest & then punished accordingly BUT with evidence...labelling all qadiyanis as foreign agents in a blanket swoop is dangerous as it closes the doors of weening qadiyanis away from this laanat & bringing them in the folds of Islam.

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## Enigma SIG

Let them be minorities and enjoy perks and privileges of being one. What else do you want to do; a genocide on Qadianis? They are to Muslims what Muslims are to Jews. Jews think we're the ones with a false prophet too.


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## Yaseen1

the books of qadyani religion like rohani khazain contain such filthy content which is not present in other minorities religious books,there are many videos on social media like youtube in which qadyani tell story of people converted to qadyani from Islam in foreign countries particularly europe and canada


GumNaam said:


> then three qadiyanis actually engaged in such activities with foreign intel agencies & espionage should be charged with treason & undermining national interest & then punished accordingly BUT with evidence...labelling all qadiyanis as foreign agents in a blanket swoop is dangerous as it closes the doors of weening qadiyanis away from this laanat & bringing them in the folds of Islam.



jews Holy Book includes indication of our Holy Prophet(P.B.U.H) and also does the Holy Bible


Enigma SIG said:


> Let them be minorities and enjoy perks and privileges of being one. What else do you want to do; a genocide on Qadianis? They are to Muslims what Muslims are to Jews. Jews think we're the ones with a false prophet too.


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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

Yaseen1 said:


> ismailis and bahai not commit blasphemy like qadyani do,why Muslims in Pakistan consider qadyani threat and others like ismaili etc as not threat explain that they are not ordinary minority but have linkages with foreign agencies and are largely involved in converting Muslims to qadyani by exploiting those people who are illiterate regarding Islamic teachings and suffering from poverty,they provide them with money and foreign visa in return for converting to qadyani





Yaseen1 said:


> ismailis and bahai not commit blasphemy like qadyani do,why Muslims in Pakistan consider qadyani threat and others like ismaili etc as not threat explain that they are not ordinary minority but have linkages with foreign agencies and are largely involved in converting Muslims to qadyani by exploiting those people who are illiterate regarding Islamic teachings and suffering from poverty,they provide them with money and foreign visa in return for converting to qadyani



1. You should go read the theology of ismailis, they consider the Agha Khan and all previous imams as reincarnation of the spirit of the Prophet PBUH. If this isn't blasphemy then I don't know what is.

2. The Baha'i are just as bad if not worse, they believe that the Qur'an was altered during the reigns of the Ummayad Caliphate and that their imams or Baba brought the correct versions back in his new book.

You are completely uneducated and you still keep playing yourself as a fool

3. Are you really going to stand there and claim that Qadianis are the only foreign funded groups in Pakistan??? 

What about the wahabis who are funded by saudia and Qatar who preach their morphism when it comes to the Aspects of Allah where they believe that Allah has body parts

What about all the Protestant and Anglican churches and convents that are all foreign funded and how they preach their religion in their schools where Muslims study. What about them???

What about Shia groups, a lot of whom are funded by Iran??? What about them???

Why are you turning a blind eye to all of them and only focusing on qadianis???

Because Shaitan has put fire of ignorance in your heart and your heart is black and the Noor of Allah isn't going to it because you're preventing it.

You're openly showing everyone that you are okay with isolating and picking on one religion even though all the other minorities are doing the same 

Shame on you. Wake up from your ignorance.


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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

ali_raza said:


> then why r u itching soo hard.
> move on and let it be
> 
> 
> so u have sympathy with qadianis now.?
> and who said they r oppressed


The majority never thinks that the minorities are oppressed. Unless you've been in their shoes. They're not Muslims, that automatically makes them minority religion, therefore you have no justification for opposing have their religion placed in the committee list of minorities.


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## Kompromat

*Govt has denied that any such decision has yet been made, therefore the unattributed news posted as OP is deemed unreliable.

*

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