# Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW | SOG



## A.Rahman

*Overview*

In 1953-54 the Pakistan Army raised an elite commando formation with US Army assistance. To disguise its true mission the new unit was simply designated 10 Bn. of The Baluch Regiment The battalion was posted to a new headquarters at Cherat near Attock City. In march 1964 a Mobile Training Team from the US Army Special Forces Group (Airborne) went to Pakistan to set up a new airborne school at Peshawar for 19 Baluch. The school included basic and jumpmaster courses. All members of 19 Baluch were airborne-qualified. The training team also included four riggers, who helped train Pakistani counterparts. 

By this time 19 Baluch was already considered the SSG (Special Services Group) which was divided into 24 companies. Each company had specialization units, specialized in desert, mountain, ranger, and underwater warfare. The desert companies participated in training exercises with US Army Special Forces Mobile Training Team in late 1964. The scuba company in Karachi was renowned for its tough physical training. 

In 1970 an anti-terrorist role was added. This mission was given to the Musa Company, an independent formation within SSG. The name was given after the name of Prophet Musa (Moses). The company was originally formed in 1970 as a combat diver unit. In 1980 however each company was given a diver unit. After the Musa company was converted to an anti-terrorist unit, it received training by British SAS advisors in Cherat during mid-1981. 

In 1986 SSG began a large-scale basic training program for Sri Lankan Paramilitary militia forces. Commando and airborne training was given to members of the Sri Lankan Commando Regiment. 

SSG units have also been seconded in covert operations in Afghanistan during the Afghan war, as air marshals on passenger airlines and as VIP security. At present, the SSG maintains its headquarters at Cherat and runs the Airborne School at Peshawar. Two SSG battalions are normally rotated through Cherat with a third battalion divided between the border and other strategic locations such as the Terbella Dam and nuclear research facilities. Each SSG battalion numbers 700 men in four companies. Each company is split into platoons and further sub-divided into 10 men teams. Battalions are commanded by Lieutenant Colonels, the group is currently run by a Colonel 

*Training*






SSG officers must have at least two years of prior military experience and volunteer from other formations for three-year assignments with the SSG; NCO and enlisted men volunteer from other formations to serve permanently in the SSG. All trainees must participate in an eight-month SSG course at Cherta. The SSG course course emphasizes tough physical conditioning. Included is a 36-mile march in 12 hours, a grueling requirement that was first institutionalized by 19 Baluch. They are also required to run 5 miles in 40 minutes with full gear. Following the SSG course, trainees must volunteer for Airborne School. The course last four weeks, with wings awarded after seven (five day, two night) jumps. none SSG airborne students only have to complete a the five day jump. 

Many in the SSG school are selected for additional specialist training. A HALO course is given at Peshawar with a 'skydiver' tab awarded after 5 freefall jumps. A "Mountain Warfare" qualification badge is given after completing a course at the Mountain Warfare School in Abbotsbsd; and a "Combat Diver" badge is awarded awarded for the course held by the Naval Special Services Group SSGN at Karachi. three classes of combat swimmers were recognized: 1st class to those completing an 18-mile swim; 2nd class to those finishing a 12-mile swim; and 3rd class for a 6-mile swim. SSG regularly sends students to the US for special warfare and airborne training. later on due to Siachen crisis, a Snow and High Altitude Warfare School was also established.

*SSG Weapons and Uniforms*







While they were designated 19 Baluch, the Pakistani special forces were distinguished by a green beret with the Baluch Regt. beret insignia on a maroon flash. A 'Baluch' tab, black with a maroon background, went on left shoulder. Combat uniforms were Khaki. The SSG dropped the green beret in favor of a maroon beret. A silver metal SSG beret is worn in a light blue felt square. A bullion SSG para wing with a black cloth background is worn on the left chest. A red cloth version is worn by master parachutist who has at least 50 jumps. SSG "Riggers" wear a wing with the English word 'Rigger' stitched across the wing. A distinctive SSG badge featuring a dagger framed by lightening bolts, used since 1964 by members of 19 Baluch goes on the left shoulder; qualification tabs and badges such as Skydiver, SCUBA, or Mountain Warfare go on the right shoulder. A silver metal SSG insignia is occasionally worn on shoulder straps.

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## Elitecommando

Some Nice pics boy.


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## Uganda1

Here is a image of SSG : NAVY

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## Sid

They look rough and tough; but their performance has not been that outstanding as you would expect from an &#39;Elite&#39; unit. 

Ofcourse they&#39;ve had successes (they are expected to carry out the more dangerous missions which is why they are &#39;elite&#39 but it is the failures that troubles me. 

During previous wars with India, quite a few missions failed and I just hope they&#39;ve learned from their mistakes.

Cheers.

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## sword9

ERROR by Default. Sword9 please re-post your msg. [Just edit this one]. Thnx


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## Ahassan

Special Service Group

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## Ahassan

Special Services Group (SSG)

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## A.Rahman

nice pics airbus!


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## A.Rahman

can anyone tell me what guns they are carrying in the pics posted by "airbus" ?

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## Ahassan

A.Rahman said:


> can anyone tell me what guns they are carrying in the pics posted by "airbus" ?




Chinese Type 81 Assault Rifle......


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## tahirkhely

Sid said:


> They look rough and tough; but their performance has not been that outstanding as you would expect from an 'Elite' unit.
> 
> Ofcourse they've had successes (they are expected to carry out the more dangerous missions which is why they are 'elite') but it is the failures that troubles me.
> 
> During previous wars with India, quite a few missions failed and I just hope they've learned from their mistakes.
> 
> Cheers.


 Ask this from Russian Spetnaz commandoes what a pakistani commando is like.

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## MOO

Does anyone know of any chance of the SSG operating U.S. M4 Carbines? If so, post some pics of them.


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## TexasJohn

MOO said:


> Does anyone know of any chance of the SSG operating U.S. M4 Carbines? If so, post some pics of them.



I don't think you want them using M4s. According to some of friends coming back from Iraq, those things jam with the slightest bit of grit in them. Now you have to break it down, clean it, etc. Most inconvenient in a firefight. Most of them try and get a backup AK-47 as soon as they get there.

Same with my AR-15 vs my SKS ( Norinco). I can abuse my SKS, I have to keep my AR very, very clean! The AR-15 (clean) is very accurate though. Just don't go deer hunting with it. You will destroy the meat!

Maybe an Israeli Tavor or the Chinese copy?

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## tahirkhely

tahirkhely said:


> Ask this from Russian Spetnaz commandoes what a pakistani commando is like.
> 
> [Mod Edit: Please quote a line about what Russian Spetnaz' think about SSG as your current post does not add anything to the discussion]


Actually i am referring to Afghan War. Where Russian commandoes came across Yaldrim battalion. There are some eyewitnesses of that conflict still alive and willing to give their account. Certainly they dont have a website so that i can refer you too. They are Sepoys and Subedars. But certainly they have something which will not be digested by you easily.
During my National Cadet Corps training, I heard a lot of incidences of pitched battles against Russian Airborne insertions for hammer and anvil sort of operations. I can give you each and every accounts detail but with a precondition that you digest it.
it will add a lot to this forum as well.1

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## Sid

You're obligated to provide such information when you make haughty claims. To 'digest' it or not; is a matter of free will on the part of those who read that information as well as depending on the credibility of the source.

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## tahirkhely

Sid said:


> You're obligated to provide such information when you make haughty claims. To 'digest' it or not; is a matter of free will on the part of those who read that information as well as depending on the credibility of the source.


:read: 
Oh these are not haughty claims. Actually the sacrifices which were given overshadow the importance of any haughtiness. These are simple events which started to unfold as USSR went on and on with its campaign. Since the military might of USSR at that time was immense, USA preferred covert aid of weapons and munitions. General Akhtar AbdurReman HI(M) NI(M) Shaheed was given a go ahead by General Zia. Both Shaheed.
All these people Ahmad shah masood, Gulbadin Hikmatyaar, Sayyaf etc etc are a living proof of what pakistani commandoes did. As instructors and in pitched battles they proved their mettle.:army:

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## MastanKhan

Hi,

My uncle, he is dead now, was one of the designing members of the pakistani nuclear prgramme. His younger brother was serving in SSG during the afghan war----he would not talk directly but would hint at some successful encounters against the russian opponents with a smile. He was posted in poland in the early or mid 80's. His dead body came in a sealed container which was no allowed to be opened by the family. Rumour has it that the russians got their revenge in poland.

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## Officer of Engineers

While I do not doubt Pakistan had troops in Afghanistan (so did every enemy of the USSR), I doubt that they were at the battalion level. That's too identifiable (and too easily targetted). More likely, in keeping with SOF ops, in brick (4 man teams) to a maximun of platoon (30-40 men)

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## Muradk

Officer of Engineers said:


> While I do not doubt Pakistan had troops in Afghanistan (so did every enemy of the USSR), I doubt that they were at the battalion level. That's too identifiable (and too easily targetted). More likely, in keeping with SOF ops, in brick (4 man teams) to a maximun of platoon (30-40 men)




pakistan did have troops SSG but like you said they were in small groups of 3 , 6 and 8 not more than that at a time and they were joined with the locals so they could not be recognised.

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## Officer of Engineers

General,

Sir, I've got caught off guard with 3 and 6. Then it occurred to me. No radio man. They were indeed one capable bunch.

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## Jay_

Colonel,
so you mean to say that these are need based plattons with reduced objectives? They were mostly used for training and not for direct combat against Soviets?

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## Officer of Engineers

The lack of proper fire assets such as artillery would have restricted them to intel gathering and targets of oppertunity roles.


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## MastanKhan

Hi,
'Engineers' is correct in his assessment. 

You know that was a very fearful time. It was not like going into india, where the other guy looks like you and you can blend into the crowd nicely. 

Afghanistan was a different place. It was the first chance to combat the "white russian soldier" by the pakistani forces and they didn't step back from the job.
Just the name of the spetsnaz jelled many a knees----but in true combat they were just like any other soldiers. When they got beat up bad, their atrocity level on the local population increased.

Pakistanis have no clue as to how much the old regime russians hated pakistan for its role.

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## sparten

mastan, pakistanis can blend in easily in Afghanistan. Send a sqaud of Pashtuns.

OOE, 
Sir, for SSG deployment in the Afghan War (and the Afghan operation in General), you should read "Bear Trap", by Brig Yousaf. He ran the ISI's Afghan desk during the war. Audacious man. Anyways he preferred that for important operartion, military advisors be present. Indeed they operated _inside_ the USSR on a few occasions.
Brig ray has that book, you can ask him for it.

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## Officer of Engineers

sparten said:


> OOE,
> Sir, for SSG deployment in the Afghan War (and the Afghan operation in General), you should read "Bear Trap", by Brig Yousaf. He ran the ISI's Afghan desk during the war.



I did read it. I think I have it in electronic form somewhere. However, I do recall that the Soviet Army called his book hogwash and detailed some of the ops as being impossible from a physical standpoint, ie, no way a man can walk that far without water.

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## sparten

Yes I remember that from the Soviet Army. Still its the best we have from the Afghan war. Also quite a bit of stuff was classified at that time.

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## MastanKhan

Hi,

It is indeed imposible to walk that far without water, unless someone does it for the first time. Just like the 4 minute mile, just like belly slide down the snow covered slopes of the Tora Bora mountains. Once the pakistani forces got the U S backing during the afghan war, they carried out some deep strike missions into the big bears territory.

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## Officer of Engineers

I don't doubt that there was some missions within the USSR but like everything else in military circle, the achievements are often exergerated, even within the SAS. I know I'm guilty of overplaying things after a wee bit much to drink.

Yes, you may be able to walk that far without water ... but you're in no condition to fight afterwards ... unless you didn't walk that far.

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## sparten

Sir, two points
1) The war was not exactly popular inside the areas of the old USSR that bordered Afghanistan i.e modern day Tajikistan. Is its not possible that the Mujahideen had support there.

2) From what I can gather from Bear Trap itself, the reason the good Brig was sent to ISI is since GHQ wanted a military man incharge of the OPS there. Would he have not seen to whatever was needed.

3) The Sovs are not exactly know to flaunt or even accept their failures are they?


Though I doubt SSG were used unless it was extremely important, the strategic fallout of having a captured Pakistani army man inside the USSR were too great to contemplate.

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## Officer of Engineers

sparten said:


> Sir, two points
> 1) The war was not exactly popular inside the areas of the old USSR that bordered Afghanistan i.e modern day Tajikistan. Is its not possible that the Mujahideen had support there.



Not very. I don't doubt that there was some sympathy but by and large, the Tajikistani Regiments did most of the fighting in Afghanistan and most of the winning. Also, they had a Civil War there not too long ago. The Tajiks called it an Incursion from Afghanistan and they repulsed the Islamic Factions.



sparten said:


> 2) From what I can gather from Bear Trap itself, the reason the good Brig was sent to ISI is since GHQ wanted a military man incharge of the OPS there. Would he have not seen to whatever was needed.



He was not the one on the ground. He accepts reports from the people on the ground.



sparten said:


> 3) The Sovs are not exactly know to flaunt or even accept their failures are they?



I do agree but after reading BRAVO TWO ZERO and things I found hard to accept, I find it quite amusing that a former SAS did retrace that mission and talked to Iraqis involved. Let's just say that the author embelished alot.

Here's the situation. Men on the ground under constant pressure will mistake distance travel and time spent. That is just human nature. You can't exactly be measuring distance travelled exactly when your eyes are looking for bad guys. Especially back then with none of the modern GPS stuff.

In the case of BRAVO TWO ZERO, Andy mistaken a farmer with an old shotgun for an Iraqi patrol. The SAS man who interviewed the farmer (who happens to be an Iran-Iraq War veteran) said that there was no firefight. Andy just fired two shots and ran away. The farmer figured since he was running away, there's no point in pursueing this.



sparten said:


> Though I doubt SSG were used unless it was extremely important, the strategic fallout of having a captured Pakistani army man inside the USSR were too great to contemplate.



I'm sure they would have cover stories. However, the primary point would be not to get caught.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

sparten said:


> mastan, pakistanis can blend in easily in Afghanistan. Send a sqaud of Pashtuns.
> 
> OOE,
> Sir, for SSG deployment in the Afghan War (and the Afghan operation in General), you should read "Bear Trap", by Brig Yousaf. He ran the ISI's Afghan desk during the war. Audacious man. Anyways he preferred that for important operartion, military advisors be present. Indeed they operated _inside_ the USSR on a few occasions.
> Brig ray has that book, you can ask him for it.



An interesting book.


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## Arrow

Also full of self laudatory hyperbole.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

That will be for anyone claiming to be the sole chap who singlehandedly against all odds did the job!

One must sift the wheat from the chaff!


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## Arrow

True, but I tend to get turned off by all the books which have the recurrent theme of "There I was, and facing the whole enemy army singlehandedly..."


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## blain2

airbus said:


> Chinese Type 81 Assault Rifle......



No these are type-56 rifles.


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## blain2

MOO said:


> Does anyone know of any chance of the SSG operating U.S. M4 Carbines? If so, post some pics of them.



Yes SSG is using M-4 carbines.

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## blain2

SSG has its share of successes and failures just like any other SF. What does make a difference is the number of times they are committed. The SF operations by their nature are more difficult thus the ratio of failures can be high. Although I have to admit that the number of major SSG operations that have failed have been costly in terms of losses and as such receive more coverage, but the number of successes is more than the failures.

A few good books about the SSG include "Unlikely Beginings" and obviously the official history of the SSG (Col Faiz Gilani). Others who have written about the conduct of SSG in various ops include Brig ZA Khan (The way it was), & Maj Gen Hakeem Arshad Qureshi (1971 Indo-Pak war).


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## qaisar

_A few good books about the SSG include "Unlikely Beginings" and obviously the official history of the SSG (Col Faiz Gilani). Others who have written about the conduct of SSG in various ops include Brig ZA Khan (The way it was), & Maj Gen Hakeem Arshad Qureshi (1971 Indo-Pak war)._

Can anybody make any reference out of these books? I am intersted in knowing the credentials of SSG.


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## Mansoor A Qureshi

Can anyone provide me with online version of any of the books?  or any good book? Website or uploaded PDF..... anything good to read regarding the topic but unbiased and of good quality.

Waiting,

Regards


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## blain2

Mansoor A Qureshi said:


> Can anyone provide me with online version of any of the books?  or any good book? Website or uploaded PDF..... anything good to read regarding the topic but unbiased and of good quality.
> 
> Waiting,
> 
> Regards




The only one on-line is actually the very factual one by Brig Z A Khan and part of it is available at:

http://www.defencejournal.com/aug98/wayitwas1.htm

You can order the bookonline as well from desistore.com. By far the best aside from the official history is Late Maj Gen Abu Bakar Osman Mitha's (HJ) "unlikely beginings". An excellent and well written book which deals with the origins and formation of the SSG. Mitha happens to be the one responsible for the formation of the SSG and the first Group Commander of this elite unit. A very highly thought of commander of the SSG by all those who served under him.


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## blain2

*Lt-Gen Hamid witnesses Pak-Turk wargames* 
PESHAWAR: Corps Commander Lt-Gen Muhammed Hamid Khan witnessed the ongoing Pak-Turkey joint exercise, ATATURK V, being conducted in the surrounding area of Tarbela, said a release of ISPR here on Tuesday. 

The Turkish Special Forces are jointly participating in special operational skills which include heli-borne training, cordon/search operations, direct snap action, fighting in built-up areas and anti-terrorists skills with Pakistani Special Service Group (SSG) troops. 

The contingent from Turkey comprising 29 all ranks from mountain commandos and Special Forces. Lt-Gen Muhammed Hamid Khan, Brigadier General Mustafa Sardar Ekizoglu, Commandant of Mountain and Commando School Turkish Army, General Officer Commanding Special Service Group Major General Tahir Mahmood and senior officers of both the armies witnessed the exercise. 

Special forces of both the armies demonstrated a raid on terrorists camp by using special services techniques and destroyed the camp by direct snap action. 

The corps commander went around the exercise area and met the troops of both the countries. He appreciated the hard work, commitment and efficiency displayed by the troops and hoped that such exercises would prove mutually beneficial for both the armies. 

Highlighting the existing brotherly ties between two countries, he said there is a need to enhance the scope of similar exercises in future. 

Turkish Brigadier General Mustafa Sardar Ekizoglu appreciated the professional standard displayed by the troops participating in exercises and said such interaction would continue in future. 

Pak-Turkish military cooperation is deep-rooted and encompasses many facets. It covers officers exchange programme, training at each other facilities and mutual purchase of defence equipment. The joint exercise is a physical manifestation of such cooperation at all levels. 

Earlier, on arrival in the exercise area the corps commander was given a detailed briefing on the exercise.


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## Mansoor A Qureshi

blain2 said:


> The only one on-line is actually the very factual one by Brig Z A Khan and part of it is available at:
> 
> http://www.defencejournal.com/aug98/wayitwas1.htm



Thanks Blain  Let me know if you find anyother source

Thanks a million


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## sunlibo1986

Chinese Type 81 Assault Rifle is rublish!!!
it looks like AK-47


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## sword9

sunlibo1986 said:


> Chinese Type 81 Assault Rifle is rublish!!!
> it looks like AK-47


Wrong, the T 81 is based on the SKS with atributes of the AK-56. The later version of the T-81 look more like the G3. But this is a topic for another thread.

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## Keysersoze

Hmmmm I have read through this thread and I have to say there is quite a bit of conjecture and probably quite a bit of hyperbole in these accounts of special forces activity.

Most "special forces" accounts are grossly exaggerated. I have a few friends who have been or are still involved in the special forces community and they happily tore down some of the myths that are floating around out there.
The Bravo two zero account is a good example of this.

At the end of the day. All special forces are just very well trained soldiers not supermen.


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## vnomad

blain2 said:


> Yes SSG is using M-4 carbines.



Why are they wearing that odd shade of sunglasses(if those are sunglasses)?


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## Keysersoze

Normally yellow lenses enhance light in certain conditions (over cast conditions for example) But it looks like a bright day there so I do not know why THEY are wearing them ....


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## sparten

cause it looks cool.This is SSG after all.

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## Keysersoze

ok, now note the following.......

The plastic helmets which protect the head from injuries when doing room entry (not bullet proof as they rely upon speed and accuracy) body armour to stop shrapnel and some rounds. Knee pads to allow snap shooting in urban environs. and goggles for the insertion into a dustbowl (from the helicopters downdraft) Oh and they are carrying M4's

cool AND functional thats the way to be!


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## tahirkhely

i think you are closer to them in every respect and aspect. so your information will be purified one. :flag: :army: 
(this message is for mod who needs to be normalized to unity.)

*Admin Edit: What you talking about?*


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## Keysersoze

huh? did that confuse anyone else????


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## EagleEyes

I think it did.


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## Awesome

Damn he blurted out my secret SSG identity.


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## Keysersoze

Can I have a secret SSG identity as well?
 

I like to be known as 007


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## blain2

keysersoze said:


> Normally yellow lenses enhance light in certain conditions (over cast conditions for example) But it looks like a bright day there so I do not know why THEY are wearing them ....



Those are not sun-glasses rather protective shooting glasses. They are used during training to protect eyes. They are slightly yellow but are quite standard. Nothing to do with sunlight etc. as the purpose is not to shade the eyes rather to protect it.


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## blain2

keysersoze said:


> ok, now note the following.......
> 
> The plastic helmets which protect the head from injuries when doing room entry (not bullet proof as they rely upon speed and accuracy) body armour to stop shrapnel and some rounds. Knee pads to allow snap shooting in urban environs. and goggles for the insertion into a dustbowl (from the helicopters downdraft) Oh and they are carrying M4's
> 
> cool AND functional thats the way to be!



The helmets as worn by the DF operators and shown in the movie BHD are Kevlar and not plastic afaik.


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## Keysersoze

Take another look......
Those are the type of helmet that you see for skateboarders or Ice hockey players wear. And even in the book BHD they are described as hockey helmets.and desribed as being plastic. they are unlikely to be kevlar as why have a different one to the issue helmet? (kevlar is heavy enough to be quite cumbersome)
I have asked my SF mate to confirm this and he said that they never wore helmets during their "intervention" drills. The reason for this being that they were to rely upon speed in room clearance drills rather than heavy protection. the plastic helmets help prevent head injuries when entering rooms and did not encumber them as they are very light (I have tried them on)

Glasses during training? Thats funny I have done pretty much most kinds of weapon drills and was never required to use glasses of any kind (They are only a civilian measure). They may well be protective glasses, but unless Generals explode they are just posing as far as i am concerned. The only time I have worn eyewear was in BRIGHT sunlight or in extremely dusty environments (mostly desert environs) and they weren't yellow.

The colour of lenses is very important as it relates to the mount of visible light they filter or enhance so it is of importance. (I know this from my current employment) Yellow lenses enhance lowlight conditions .....

Thanks for the tips though


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## blain2

You may be right about the helmet. our guys in Pakistan only have the kevlar ballistic ones and not the ones in use by the DF.

On the issue of eye protection, the glasses are pretty standard. For a team like the SOTF (which is what this line-up is in the picture), the eye protection is a pretty standard thing just because most of these guys are the ones responsible for operations in the mountainous North West. Almost all of their operations are "air assault" which in many cases require quite a bit of fast roping from the helis. Eye protection is a welcome addition to the gear is you have it. Personal preferences or views aside, Pakistanis are not the only ones using eye protection. The other issue is obviously foreign objects going into your eyes. The amount of dust is unreal in Pakistan. Eye protection (if available) helps with all of it. Its not a must. Maybe since the VCoAS was in town, these guys wanted to deck out in complete gear, but regardless, eye protection helps with all of the elements that have been discussed.



> I have asked my SF mate to confirm this and he said that they never wore helmets during their "intervention" drills. The reason for this being that they were to rely upon speed in room clearance drills rather than heavy protection. the plastic helmets help prevent head injuries when entering rooms and did not encumber them as they are very light (I have tried them on)



What weighs you down is the not the helmet alone, its actually the whole body armour. I know some of the folks in the local SWAT teams here in the US, and these guys who are constantly training and equipping their guys with all sorts of new gear are nuts about personnel safety. Kevlar ballistic helmets are a must for all of these guys. Having played around with the Kevlar helmets a bit, I know that you can get used to them very easily (the weight is about 2.5 - 3lbs). Most of the guys in the Pakistani SSG actually do not like any additional weight at all....but the protection has its benefits. So while your SF buddy may have his preferences or a certain way of doing things in his outfit, it does not apply universally. Each SF or CT unit has its own set of preferences and even within these teams, individuals have their own likes or dislikes. A lot of stuff used by the western SF's actually is considered a luxury (which you can do without) by the Pakistani SF, but that is a whole another discussion.


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## Keysersoze

Yeah I understand about operating in dustbowl environs as I have operated in a area where it was an issue. However we (and pretty much everyone else) used goggles, as the type of glasses used in the picture don't keep dust out. So probably as you said, they were trying to look the part for the inspection.

Again as to the body armour thing. I have worn most kinds and I am aware of the weights involved. For short periods of time (and depending on the heat of the environment)the weight is not a problem as adrenaline makes it all feel light. Trust me regarding the helmet....the only time I was glad of it was when we were getting mortared.
But extended operation it is cumbersome (and in some areas useless as the enemy might have armour defeating ammunition.)
I used a incorrect term in a previous post when I said intervention. I should have written assault. Whilst I am sure the SWAT guys are very good in their field (Interventions and hostage rescue) they generally go into specific threat types. Hence body armour would be of an advantage.(second man in the room wears more as he/she is more likely to get hit) (confined spaces etc etc) The guys (there are more then one but I can't always get to ask them as they are not always around lol) are SAS (or ex) and generally have operated in a number of different situations. armour is more important to regular force as opposed to SF
Anyway........


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## sparten

Tell me keysersoze, which regt were you in? Para? Royal Fusiliers?


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## Keysersoze

I am not a complete nutcase therefore I am not a para  

If you really want to know please feel free to PM me as I will not post it out on here, if you will forgive me.


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## blain2

keysersoze said:


> Yeah I understand about operating in dustbowl environs as I have operated in a area where it was an issue. However we (and pretty much everyone else) used goggles, as the type of glasses used in the picture don't keep dust out. So probably as you said, they were trying to look the part for the inspection.
> 
> Again as to the body armour thing. I have worn most kinds and I am aware of the weights involved. For short periods of time (and depending on the heat of the environment)the weight is not a problem as adrenaline makes it all feel light. Trust me regarding the helmet....the only time I was glad of it was when we were getting mortared.
> But extended operation it is cumbersome (and in some areas useless as the enemy might have armour defeating ammunition.)
> I used a incorrect term in a previous post when I said intervention. I should have written assault. Whilst I am sure the SWAT guys are very good in their field (Interventions and hostage rescue) they generally go into specific threat types. Hence body armour would be of an advantage.(second man in the room wears more as he/she is more likely to get hit) (confined spaces etc etc) The guys (there are more then one but I can't always get to ask them as they are not always around lol) are SAS (or ex) and generally have operated in a number of different situations. armour is more important to regular force as opposed to SF
> Anyway........



Glasses or goggles is a minor issue. If they have it, they use it, otherwise they do without. That is plain and simple how our guys are trained.

Its funny that you mention SAS guys as your source (impressing by affiliation ;-) especially for dynamic entry/MOE type stuff. The interesting thing is that my own friend who was in the US Army (around 9/11 he was actually teaching at USMA, West Point) and later got attached to the USSF and briefly worked with TF-20 during their hunt for Saddam Hussain mentioned to me that he watched both the SAS guys and the DF guys operate in Iraq and by far for MoE and DE type stuff, the DF guys were a cut above all others and SAS were ok. He even mentioned to me that in many of the Special Ops work, some of the Polish SF were very good...overall he was not too impressed by the SAS. Now that is his opinion and I only share it to back up what I am trying to say which is that we all have our preferences, biases and ways and means to get things done. The fact that you notice something as basic as eye-wear of the SSG operators and make a comment about the uselessness of the gear without even knowing the exact context or reasons for wearing shows bias to some extent.

I can go back into quite a few other stories about the Western SF and the misplaced aura around them but it does not help here. All I am saying is that if for some reason SAS does something, it does not mean that it is neccessarily the smartest thing or the way that all of the rest should do it.

I personally could care less about the way an operator looks or the gear he has which btw has become the ill-conceived norm to judge the fitness of a SF outfits nowadays...so in the end I value your opinion, however I believe it lacks a certain context.

Regards


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## blain2

BTW,

I realized how stupid a thing we are discussing here...les discuss something of substance instead of the eye protection etc.


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## Keysersoze

I take your point about the mystique surrounding SF and have made the point on this forum myself.

However I must take umbrage at the comments of your friend. For any AMERICAN to comment on any type of work of this nature is just amusing to me. There may well be some extremely capable US units and individuals, but as a whole they have no clue at all. They would create more enemies than they would defeat. (We prefered not to patrol with them and their general attitude toward the locals made me see red at times. this was recently reinforced when a friend came back from Afghan and said they also refused to patrol with the yanks as they would get abuse when with them.) 

And I would add that I have more respect for the SAS not for their martial aspects but rather for their ability NOT to alienate local populations and create dragged out wars. They have been doing it longer than most of the others and successfully. (Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia are great examples of how not to run things......)Didn't the PAK army have to pull out the Americans in Mogadishu?

Our unofficial motto's included "Do everything that is necessary, nothing that is not" and "polished boots don't stop bullets" hence me being picky in regards to silly showmanship. However I would also add (if you look at the post) i was merely asking why they were wearing them.

We are all biased my friend...........


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## sword9

keysersoze said:


> We are all biased my friend...........


Me too....In a joint US Brit exercise, the SAS and Delta guys slithered down choppers, and had to clear a house,...the SAS were already inside the house, when the Delta chaps were still at the ropes.


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## GOD OF WAR

All of the US Special Units are OverHyped, thanx to hollywood and the general notion of the typical american that US is the best of the best. BOO HOO would be more appropriate than HOO YA  

The SAS is the father of SF. its no nes that Delta was concieved keeping the SAS in mind


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## sparten

Hey, Keyseroze Britannia knows how to lord it over people that do not want them there. And they know (like the Romans did) when to be cruel, when to be kind. 

As for the Yanks, well their saying is "when you squeeze their balls, their hearts and minds will follow". However, they fail to realize that you'll probably get a punch to the jawbone.


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## Keysersoze

sparten said:


> Hey, Keyseroze Britannia knows how to lord it over people that do not want them there. And they know (like the Romans did) when to be cruel, when to be kind.
> 
> As for the Yanks, well their saying is "when you squeeze their balls, their hearts and minds will follow". However, they fail to realize that you'll probably get a punch to the jawbone.



Well yes (at the leadership level) you are correct. Hence the ability for such a small nation to as it were, "punch above it's weight" 
As individuals it varies from the "ef em all" type, to the ones who genuinely care about the people they work with.


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## zraver

US SF used outside of its mission box is like using a hammer to peel a tomato. However inside of thier mission box they are among the best in the world. 

Need to take down a plane, board a ship, etc. Working with locals is not a US specialty except among the Green Berets.


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## sparten

The US Army has a whole host of SPF. Delta Force, Green Beret's, Rangers etc.

Bit of an overkill.


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## zraver

it depends, becuase SOCOM is so big it has a plethora of specialsit units to use for specialist purposes. The problem is to many US Commanders think that any SF unit can do any mission, a beleif often fosted by the SF unit commanders themselves in the constant struggle to gain prominence.

When US SF units are used proplery they are leathaly effective. When improperly used they are leathaly ineffective.


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## GOD OF WAR

hey spartan, we mean over kill or ROAD-KILL 

BTW since the marines are officially part of the SOCOM now, are they still called Force Recon or what? new logo? new MOS?!?!


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## blain2

zraver said:


> When US SF units are used proplery they are leathaly effective. When improperly used they are leathaly ineffective.




This is a phenomena that has been seen world-wide (or by those countries that have a viable special ops capability). Proper employment of SF assets is an essential part that leads to success. In Pakistan too, our SF assets have been improperly employed by those who did not understand the value, usage or the suitability of the SF assets in various ops. Where the SF assets have been used in their appropriate role, they have done amazing things.

A Pakistani Maj Gen (not an SF officer but one who understood the proper concept of employing SF) once wrote the following about the Pakistani SSG:

"The SSG (Special Forces) is the most sophisticated, and specialised, unit in any modern army. The success of their mission is in "The approach to Battle," even more than it is for a common-or-garden infantry unit. The courage, devotion, hardihood and individual training of SSG men is not intended to make amends for failures in planning and projection. These are rather the assets which require extra precision for their employment."

If you use SF as a solution for all challenges facing normal infantry units then you are bound to see failures. Another thing to keep in mind is that most missions tasked to SF units are inherently difficult, thus the ratio of failures to success is also higher. People need to understand this instead of assuming that SF are some invincible band of operators.


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## blain2

SSG officer (also Air Assault Qualified from US) discussing Fast-roping techniques with counterparts from Turkish SF during Ataturk series of ex. at Cherat.







Group photo of Pakistani and Turkish SF operators:






Misc. (Turkish and Pakistani SF operators)






Pakistani operators:






Pakistani and Turkish SF operators during training:






Notice the new Army cammies being used by SSG. As I mentioned in another thread, SSG wears what the regular army wears.


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## Mercenary

yo blain

can I use these photos and upload them on wikipedia

I mean are they your photos?


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## blain2

Mercenary said:


> yo blain
> 
> can I use these photos and upload them on wikipedia
> 
> I mean are they your photos?



Use them. The pictures are from PA. But do not put your own watermark. If anything give the credit to ISPR.


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## Mercenary

Why do all of our SSG guys have beards and facial hair?


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## sparten

SSG tradition. Borrowed from Baloch REgt IIRC.


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## Mercenary

Why do we have a SSG in Saudi Arabia protecting the Royal Family?

I mean can't the Saudis do it?


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## sparten

They are former SSG officers.


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## blain2

Mercenary said:


> Why do we have a SSG in Saudi Arabia protecting the Royal Family?
> 
> I mean can't the Saudis do it?



This is not true. We have no SSG presence in KSA. In the past there has been some advisory, training engagements but that is it. Saudis do their own protection.


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## blain2

Mercenary said:


> Why do all of our SSG guys have beards and facial hair?



Because they are Muslims and tend to follow the tradition of the Prophet (pbuh).

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Mercenary

hmm ok, but wont facial be a problem when they get deployed to colder areas where their facial hair will freeze?


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## blain2

Mercenary said:


> hmm ok, but wont facial be a problem when they get deployed to colder areas where their facial hair will freeze?



Actually facial hair protect you somewhat against the elements by retaining warmth. Most of the Pakistani troops and officers grow their beards when deployed at Siachen glacier (its a pain to shave in such hard conditions).

Beard has never got in the way of performing the job on hand.


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## Keysersoze

You also don't shave in the jungle either..... The only issue would be with gas masks.


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## blain2

SSG operators during Friendship 2006 Ex. with the Chinese SF.


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## ishaqnoor17

They are truely pride of PAKISTAN!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Mercenary

yo blain where did u get those sick pictures?


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## blain2

Pakistani SSG and Turkish SF training together.

































Source: Pakistan Army - Interservices Public Relations Directorate


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## blain2

A few more:


The entire Group:






Officers together:


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## kidwaibhai

hey i heard pakistan sent a few ssg boys over during the gulf war when the saudis were afraid that sadam might attak the royal family and i thought that the ssg guys were there to protect the kabah during the hajj. i also want to know whether the paksitani army has troops in saudi arabia at this point in time i heard they had an entire regiment there could be wrong


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## salman77

kidwaibhai said:


> hey i heard pakistan sent a few ssg boys over during the gulf war when the saudis were afraid that sadam might attak the royal family and i thought that the ssg guys were there to protect the kabah during the hajj. i also want to know whether the paksitani army has troops in saudi arabia at this point in time i heard they had an entire regiment there could be wrong



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Pakistan

Don't know about that but here is something interesting: The Pakistani military's close ties to the nations of the Middle East are based on a combination of geography and shared religion. The closest ties are with Saudi Arabia--a sporadically generous patron; much of the equipment bought from the United States during the 1980s, for example, was paid for by the Saudis. The smaller Persian Gulf states also have been sources of important financial support. The flow of benefits has been reciprocated. Beginning in the 1960s, Pakistanis have been detailed as instructors and trainers in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Libya, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates. Pakistani pilots, sailors, and technicians have played key roles in some Persian Gulf military forces, and Arabs have been trained both in their home countries and in military training establishments in Pakistan.


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## blain2

We had a Div presence during GWI. Prior to that, Pakistan maintained a Bde level strength in KSA. Supposedly there is another agreement in place for renewed Pakistani troops presence in KSA.


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## kidwaibhai

yeah i heard that pakistan is sending another 15000 troops tp KSA. i also read in the NYT that pakistan has troops in more than 22 different countries. does any body here has a list of those countries. it was printed in New York Times so it must be true


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## niaz

kidwaibhai said:


> yeah i heard that pakistan is sending another 15000 troops tp KSA. i also read in the NYT that pakistan has troops in more than 22 different countries. does any body here has a list of those countries. it was printed in New York Times so it must be true



NY Times is no doubt a very respectable paper but it is very right wing and they are expert 'Spin Doctors'. I have read James Buckley articles in the 70's when working for Esso in New York.; I would take any news they print with a pinch of salt. 

It is however true that UN and foriegn deputation is favoured by PA officers and men due to a multiple jump in their emoluments. I asked one of my cousins about it and was advised that foreign postings were so popular and financially rewarding, that one has to forego seniority in service if selected for UN expeditions abroad.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Moin91

Uganda1 said:


> Here is a image of SSG : NAVY



What picture :army: :army:


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## pma_lc120

I HAVE HEARD ABOUT SSG TRAINING..............THEY ARE REALLY SPECIAL........!


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## pma_lc120

HI EVERY, WHATS UP????


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## con

Are they carrying MP5 in the image above?


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## blain2

con said:


> Are they carrying MP5 in the image above?



Yes they are. MP-5P3/P5 to be very specific.


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## dabong1

I have seen guys training near mangla.


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## blain2

dabong1 said:


> I have seen guys training near mangla.



Pakistan's foremost CT outfit, SSG's Zarrar company, is based in Tarbela (Mangla) and there are considerable facilities (like Kill-houses) built in Mangla for the training of the CT operators in the company. In the future, they may be moved over to Islamabad/Pindi area so they can be dispatched from a more central location in case some CT opportunity arises anywhere else in Pakistan.


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## pak_army

Isn't SSG headquarter in Cherat???


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## TARIQ MAHMOOD

vnomad said:


> Why are they wearing that odd shade of sunglasses(if those are sunglasses)?



this a anti glare+shock sun glasses to protect.


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## TARIQ MAHMOOD

a good question from my personnal account i had to walk 2 miles for santry duty in saudi but the saudi troop were depending on there wealth i guy use to come from santry duty in a caprice.
SSG protecting the royal family is another credit for the SSG's supermacy


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## Wounded Healer

i went to swat a couple of years ago and saw the SSG training camp near malam jabba............they were being trained there for mountainous warfare...........dont know if they still train there or not


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## Moin91

What is the meaning of SSG ?


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## Moin91

blain2 said:


> A few more:
> 
> 
> The entire Group:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Officers together:



Nice pics Boy


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## JK!

I think we should expand Pakistani special forces or at the very least get some elite units like the Parachute Regiment in Britain or French Foreign Legion.

I was thinking of maybe:

1) An airborne unit like 16 air assault brigade from UK
2) Royal Marine type amphibious group
3) Attached special units in Paramilitaries especially for the Frontier corps.

My reasoning is the recent expansion of UK special forces to include a dedicated reconnaissance group and a special forces support group with the idea being that they secure the overall area whilst the SAS/SBS conduct their missions.


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## ahussains

They are not only nice they are the Finest in the Job you can compare them with any best in the world.:toast:


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## sehranasheens

Well acompany of SSG named BLACK STORKS were sent to afghanistan during the afghan war. They outnumbered the russian spetnaz there the world one of the top elite company.This is there real historic success on which we should be proud.they look deadly yaar


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## blain2

pak_army said:


> Isn't SSG headquarter in Cherat???



Yes it is.


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## blain2

General.Moin said:


> What is the meaning of SSG ?



Special Service Group.


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## blain2

JK! said:


> I think we should expand Pakistani special forces or at the very least get some elite units like the Parachute Regiment in Britain or French Foreign Legion.
> 
> I was thinking of maybe:
> 
> 1) An airborne unit like 16 air assault brigade from UK
> 2) Royal Marine type amphibious group
> 3) Attached special units in Paramilitaries especially for the Frontier corps.
> 
> My reasoning is the recent expansion of UK special forces to include a dedicated reconnaissance group and a special forces support group with the idea being that they secure the overall area whilst the SAS/SBS conduct their missions.



That is the exact same model being pursued in the SSG now. It will take a while because it is very expensive to support a unit like the SSG due to its equipment requirement. The SSG is being expanded under a div command now (with a Maj Gen as the commander SSG) and this means that instead of the single brigade strength, the SSG will have 2 and potentially even 3 brigades in the future. This will allow SSG battalions to have companies with dedicated taskings/training/equipment for very specific role rather than having all of the SSG bns do it all. There is definetly a lot of focus towards specialization in the SSG now and this trend will continue. Looking through last year's attendance of Pakistani officers/ORs in the US military schools, it was quite revealing to see a considerable number being present in SF schools like Ft. Bragg and others.


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## Always Neutral

Sid said:


> They look rough and tough; but their performance has not been that outstanding as you would expect from an 'Elite' unit.
> 
> Ofcourse they've had successes (they are expected to carry out the more dangerous missions which is why they are 'elite') but it is the failures that troubles me.
> 
> During previous wars with India, quite a few missions failed and I just hope they've learned from their mistakes.
> 
> Cheers.



Can you tell me more about the SSG's greatest success as well as their greatest failure ? One incident each

I think all SF's in the world need a few failures to learn their lessons and become invincible.


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## Always Neutral

Tough looking guys do they get any specific extra benefits, like para pay, diving allowance etc


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## Skull-Buster

i was just looking at the pics....if you compare the soldiers with beards and those without beards, dont u think that the soldiers with beards look more deadly and fierce? they look like lions...


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## Officer of Engineers

Always Neutral said:


> I think all SF's in the world need a few failures to learn their lessons and become invincible.



They're light infantry with all the disadvantages of light infantry ... which would make them meat against any prepared enemy and nothing is ever going to change that.


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## Officer of Engineers

Skull-Buster said:


> i was just looking at the pics....if you compare the soldiers with beards and those without beards, dont u think that the soldiers with beards look more deadly and fierce? they look like lions...


If I see what they look like, they're already dead and beards are the mark of indiscipline. People are damned lazy to have a proper NBC mask fit.


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## EagleEyes

> they're already dead and beards are the mark of indiscipline



Probably in the western culture. Welcome to the east.


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## EagleEyes

Officer of Engineers said:


> They're light infantry with all the disadvantages of light infantry ... which would make them meat against any prepared enemy and nothing is ever going to change that.



Some of the units are equipped with advanced light armoured vehicles for counter insurgency. It helps over nothing.


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## Officer of Engineers

WebMaster said:


> Probably in the western culture. Welcome to the east.


NBC masks don't fit over beards. Nothing is going to change that.



> Some of the units are equipped with advanced light armoured vehicles for counter insurgency. It helps over nothing.



Which makes them motorized ... and the logistics, read gasoline, needed that automatically negates their deployment advantage.


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## Samudra

WebMaster said:


> Probably in the western culture. Welcome to the east.



The Chinese ? Can't find many sporting beards in the forces.Welcome to the Far East.


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## Keysersoze

The Decline of Beards in Warfare
Increasingly banned in modern combat a rebirth is underway

Â© Christopher Eger

Jul 17, 2006



The Beard went from being the nearly only universal item in every army to being prohibited nearly everywhere and is now making a resurgence.

The beard was, from the time of the caveman until recent memory, considered standard issue among soldiers throughout history. In modern combat the act of shaving was set aside mainly for gentleman officers and who more often than not shaved even their heads and eyebrows. One artillery unit of the 18th Century Austrian Army that was ordered not to grow facial hair was referred to by their emperor as "My Little Shavers" whenever they were mentioned. It is harder to find a picture of an American Civil War general without a beard than with one.

By the time of World War two military forces had mandated the prohibition of beards for reasons of uniformity, hygiene, discipline, or tactical demands (such as the proper fitting and seal of a gas mask)

Before 1939, British army troops were allowed, with permission from their commander, to grow a beard. Since then, the only soldier in the battalion allowed a beard was the combat engineer sergeant and colour sergeants who was allowed to keep a beard by tradition. In both the Canadian and the French armies this traditional exception is also maintained as is the one that allows combat engineers to maintain beards. The navies of these countries also allow full sets of beards although currently this is under review.

The Israeli Defense Forces prohibit both beards and moustaches unless the member is an Orthodox Jew and is required by religious purposes to be unshaven. Having "unshorn" hair i.e. beard & mustache is an integral part of the Sikh religion. In the Sikh regiment & the Sikh light cavalry of the Indian army, as you might expect, soldiers are actually required to have beards & mustaches. Sikh servicemen in most western militaries are permitted to retain their beards while in military service.

The Spanish Legion (known until 1987 the Spanish Foreign Legion) allows beards to be grown and most of the men in that 10,000 man elite unit have them as a matter of honor.

The United States the Army and Marine Corps banned beards on grounds of personal hygiene just before world war one but they are permitted for medical reasons, such as temporary skin irritations if needed. The US Navy allowed beards for centuries especially for submariners but consigned the practice to Davy Jones's locker in the 1970's. The US Coast Guard banned beards in 1986 however The Coast Guard Pipe Band allows retired and reserve members to have beards and appear in uniform (which includes a Kilt) while on service with that unit.

History, due to tactical reasons, is repeating itself in Afghanistan where the militaries of many of the world's armed forces hung up their razors again. Selected American and British ground units were permitted to grow full beards and have worn them off and on since 2002. Afghans equate beards with being a man and it was found that the local population took the soldiers more serious once they had grown them. This also permitted small units such as Special Forces recon teams and air control parties to blend in better among the local population

The more things change, the more they stay the same.


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## Officer of Engineers

Keysersoze said:


> In both the Canadian and the French armies this traditional exception is also maintained as is the one that allows combat engineers to maintain beards.


Sorry, that's not true, Canadian combat engineers are not allowed beards. The Assault Pioneers (engineering recee for the infantry) are allowed beards but they're not really engineers.


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## Keysersoze

Officer of Engineers said:


> Sorry, that's not true, Canadian combat engineers are not allowed beards. The Assault Pioneers (engineering recee for the infantry) are allowed beards but they're not really engineers.



Hey it was a general information article lol.....

Personally I don't like beards. I think Shaving should be included as part of a daily hygiene routine. 
The comment about people with beards being fierce made me laugh though.


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## Officer of Engineers

Heard this story back at Brigade. A young LT was 1st assigned to 4 Brigade and he was letting a few things slack. The RSM saw him and commented, "Sir, you need a shave."

The young buck turned officer on the RSM (Bad mistake) and made him stand at attention while dressing him down about the chain-of-command. The RSM replied, "You're right, Sir, please come with me."

They both went to the Colonel and the RSM said, "Sir, the Lieutenant needs a shave."

Without looking up, the Colonel said, "Lieutenant, get a shave."


----------



## A.Rahman

Officer of Engineers said:


> Heard this story back at Brigade. A young LT was 1st assigned to 4 Brigade and he was letting a few things slack. The RSM saw him and commented, "Sir, you need a shave."
> 
> The young buck turned officer on the RSM (Bad mistake) and made him stand at attention while dressing him down about the chain-of-command. The RSM replied, "You're right, Sir, please come with me."
> 
> They both went to the Colonel and the RSM said, "Sir, the Lieutenant needs a shave."
> 
> Without looking up, the Colonel said, "Lieutenant, get a shave."


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## Neo

This would make a good scene in a movie, I like it.
......


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## Always Neutral

Always Neutral said:


> Can you tell me more about the SSG's greatest success as well as their greatest failure ? One incident each
> 
> I think all SF's in the world need a few failures to learn their lessons and become invincible.




Still waiting to hear from my friends on the above (greatest success / failure)!


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## Always Neutral

Always Neutral said:


> Tough looking guys do they get any specific extra benefits, like para pay, diving allowance etc



Can anyone throw some light on the above ?


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## Keysersoze

Always Neutral said:


> Still waiting to hear from my friends on the above (greatest success / failure)!



Well you might be waiting a long time. The only time you will hear about failures it is because they were big enough to be found out. 
For example the Iranian hostage situation and the whole "Black hawk down" fiasco for the Americans.

Again the same for successes If they are big enough to be found out (Or lots of former Sf people write about it) then it will be well known.

Clandestine organisations should not be in the public eye enough to give you examples. 99.9% of the examples you have heard about are probably bullshit or rumours.


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## Always Neutral

Keysersoze said:


> Well you might be waiting a long time. The only time you will hear about failures it is because they were big enough to be found out.
> For example the Iranian hostage situation and the whole "Black hawk down" fiasco for the Americans.
> 
> Again the same for successes If they are big enough to be found out (Or lots of former Sf people write about it) then it will be well known.
> 
> Clandestine organisations should not be in the public eye enough to give you examples. 99.9% of the examples you have heard about are probably bullshit or rumours.




I understand what you say above makes sense and no organisation will talk about their failures
and only reluctantly talk about their success as they want to avoid media scrutiny. However sooner or later old boys talk for eg BBC has documented the hostage taking in Iran Embassy in London and full view of the media the SAS carried out the successfull operations. I had read about two operations which may have been carried out by SSG. I maybe wrong one was when a large group of Special Forces operatives were dropped behind Indian Lines to blow up their air bases however they were landed in the wrong place so could not carry the ops. I am not sure whether they were captured or successfully exfilterated back. Another operation I remember was the Hijacking of a Pan Am aircraft in Pakistan which was stormed by the Special Forces. A lot of passengers died during the storming. 

Maybe some ex SSG chaps on this forum may wish to share his experiences not neccesarily India centric with civilians like us. 

Regards


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## blain2

Always Neutral said:


> Can anyone throw some light on the above ?



No they don't. SSG payscale is higher than that of the regular Army but that is it. You do not get anything extra for having attended and qualified a specialization course.


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## blain2

Always Neutral said:


> I understand what you say above makes sense and no organisation will talk about their failures
> and only reluctantly talk about their success as they want to avoid media scrutiny. However sooner or later old boys talk for eg BBC has documented the hostage taking in Iran Embassy in London and full view of the media the SAS carried out the successfull operations. I had read about two operations which may have been carried out by SSG. I maybe wrong one was when a large group of Special Forces operatives were dropped behind Indian Lines to blow up their air bases however they were landed in the wrong place so could not carry the ops. I am not sure whether they were captured or successfully exfilterated back. Another operation I remember was the Hijacking of a Pan Am aircraft in Pakistan which was stormed by the Special Forces. A lot of passengers died during the storming.
> 
> Maybe some ex SSG chaps on this forum may wish to share his experiences not neccesarily India centric with civilians like us.
> 
> Regards



Any SF operator worth his salt will tell you this that the proportion of failures is higher than the successes in Special Operations. This is due to the fact that most special operations by their nature are difficult and very risky.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you cannot compare the successes and failures of two SF outfits simply because one may have been employed a whole lot more than the other.

SSG have had their fair share of successes and failures. Among the failures that you mention, the 65 operations were indeed that, however there were very many mistakes committed in the employment of SSG. About 150 operators were dropped on three IAF bases and 100 or so were captured (10 or so KIA) and the rest exfiltrated.

I don't want to give a very detailed account of what led to their failure, however the biggest one was loss of initiative and improper employment. The SSG HQ was given an ultimatum to send the teams into India on the first day of the declared war when the Indian vigilance was the highest. They were sent in without any support once they were in and were given no way out. The fact that not one of the operators opted out is a testament of discipline and dedication to service and Pakistan. Lets not forget that.

During operation Qiyadat at Siachen, SSG suffered reverses as well and we can blame improper planning and an underestimation of the enemy strength.

PANAM issue was one due sheer bad luck. The newly trained SSG CT team had decided on moving against the plane but before they could, the aircraft lost power and the hijackers started shooting the passengers out of panic. This led to a hurried SSG intervention without having cleared the passengers out of harms way...as a result many died. It was sheer badluck in my opinion.

On the success side, the 1973 Baluch CI operations were spearheaded by the SSG and they were able to contain those very effectively along with the regular Army. The same goes for the extensive SSG support for operations inside of Afghanistan throughout the Soviet occupation of the country. The advising on the ground and training was again spearheaded by the SSG. Many successful operations in Siachen have been led by the SSG. 

On UNPK duties, as part of MONUC, SSG operators have led the way in combat.

The issue is that if you want newspaper headline type of successes then there may not be many, however from the standpoint of importance, the SSG has done more than its fair share.

Let me end by stating that in 1966, it was decided by the PA to disband the SSG owing to its failures in the 65 war. A complete anlysis was done by the GHQ on these ops and it was found that it was not really the SSG capabilities but unrealistic expectations and improper employment that led to failures. When senior commanders from SSG started getting into the higher echelons of the Army, this perception was corrected greatly and SSG has been used very effectively in many operations such as those I have highlighted above. The SSG performance in the 1971 war was very good (but was overshadowed by the fall of EP). Otherwise in West Pakistani border and even during the CI ops by the SSG Bns, success rate was very high.


----------



## BATMAN

> The SSG HQ was given an ultimatum to send the teams into India on the first day of the declared war


Which war 1965? What happend to the captured soldiers?


----------



## blain2

BATMAN said:


> Which war 1965? What happend to the captured soldiers?



Yes. 1965 war. I should rephrase my statement. It was not an ultimatum, rather in the form of
"The survival of Pakistan depends on this mission" (this is what I have been told first hand by an officer involved in these operations).

The captured soldiers and Officers were repatriated after 5 or so months.


----------



## Always Neutral

blain2 said:


> Any SF operator worth his salt will tell you this that the proportion of failures is higher than the successes in Special Operations. This is due to the fact that most special operations by their nature are difficult and very risky.
> 
> Thank you for the very nice and informative post. Good Luck to all SF people including SSG all over the world. Not an average Joe's work do these motivated and brave guys do and still manage to remain anon.


----------



## irfan1173

For a good SF ops what is also required is a good intelligence and a good leadership that knows when to use these men and when to use ordinary infantry. Problem is both are difficult to come by specially in case of SSG which depends on outsiders for both. Specially in case of faulty intelligence they cannot call in airstrikes unlike the americans do. SF are greatly misused also.


----------



## Always Neutral

irfan1173 said:


> For a good SF ops what is also required is a good intelligence and a good leadership that knows when to use these men and when to use ordinary infantry. Problem is both are difficult to come by specially in case of SSG which depends on outsiders for both. Specially in case of faulty intelligence they cannot call in airstrikes unlike the americans do. SF are greatly misused also.




Do you mean to say by the above that they are also used in normal infantry role ? That would be a waste of their training ! I read somewhere that they are also used for VIP Protection for the likes of the President, PM etc ! Is that true ?

If true ? It would be again a waste of SF talent !

Does SSG have a strategic and defined laid down deployment plan or is it based on the whims of fancies of the Top Brass ?

Lastly who controls the SSG ? The Army ? I ask this because the SSG has a water wing for Chariots and Combat Diving which the Army may not know how to employ them or is the SSG under a seperate Special Forces Command like in the USA ?

Hope someone with sound SSG knowledge could clear the clouds.

Regards


----------



## blain2

Always Neutral said:


> Do you mean to say by the above that they are also used in normal infantry role ? That would be a waste of their training ! I read somewhere that they are also used for VIP Protection for the likes of the President, PM etc ! Is that true ?
> 
> If true ? It would be again a waste of SF talent !
> 
> Does SSG have a strategic and defined laid down deployment plan or is it based on the whims of fancies of the Top Brass ?
> 
> Lastly who controls the SSG ? The Army ? I ask this because the SSG has a water wing for Chariots and Combat Diving which the Army may not know how to employ them or is the SSG under a seperate Special Forces Command like in the USA ?
> 
> Hope someone with sound SSG knowledge could clear the clouds.
> 
> Regards



SF forces have been employed in the roles of normal infantry by many Armies including the Pakistani (1971, 1984), Indian (1999), US (Vietnam etc.), UK (Falklands) and many others that I am not listing. Sometimes this is due to circumstances and some times incorrect understanding or over estimation of SF capabilities.

In Pakistan, the SSG have a specific team that has been imparted training for VVIP/CP security detail. This team is professionally trained in this role and is actually tasked with it. So its not a matter of pulling any Tom, Dick and Harry from the SSG to carry out this task. They have put funding, manpower and training into this requirement.



> Does SSG have a strategic and defined laid down deployment plan or is it based on the whims of fancies of the Top Brass ?



The taskings given to SSG are very very specifically laid out by the general staff of the Pakistan Army. The SSG base their entire training program around the requirements of the Army as laid out by this general staff (of course these requirements take into consideration feedback given by the SSG staff). Army conducts comprehensive planning for war and just like other Corps/Divs are considered for specific deployment/tasks/roles, so is the SSG.



> Lastly who controls the SSG ? The Army ? I ask this because the SSG has a water wing for Chariots and Combat Diving which the Army may not know how to employ them or is the SSG under a seperate Special Forces Command like in the USA ?



The SSG is commanded by the GOC SSG (A Major General). The GOC SSG reports back to the Chief of General Staff (CGS), Pakistan Army who is a Lt. Gen and in most cases the one primed for leadership of the Army (CGS post is the most important of the PSO posts within the PA). This ensures that no specific Corps Commander holds sway over a central capability such as the SSG. In the past this has been an irritant for some Corps Commanders who happen to have the SSG assets in their areas of responsibility...but the chain of command for the SSG precludes the Corps Commanders. The CGS obviously reports back to the COAS and as such it is ensured that all SSG activities and missions remain under the purview of the Army's higher command.

SSG has its own Frogman (Combat Diver) training program at Tarbela. Initially SSG used to train with the Navy so this frogman company was based in Karachi but it has since moved. Currently the SSG is not under a joint SF command, but in the future we may see SSG (Army, Navy, PAF) under one command similar to the JSOC in the US. Its fairly expensive to do so, thus we have not seen this happen, however it would help in streamlining this capability.


----------



## Always Neutral

blain2 said:


> SF forces have been employed in the roles of normal infantry by many Armies including the Pakistani (1971, 1984), Indian (1999), US (Vietnam etc.), UK (Falklands) and many others that I am not listing. Sometimes this is due to circumstances and some times incorrect understanding or over estimation of SF capabilities.




VERY NICE INFORMATIVE POST. CLEARS A LOT OF DOUBTS. THANKS.


----------



## irfan1173

AoA
blain2 excellent post. SF till today are being misused. Just few days back saw a program on how Green Berets are doing what infantry should be doing in afghanistan. I consider Kargil ,sending SSG in FATA with no intelligence as also misuse of them.


----------



## thorosius

I have heard that SSG people are posted in Saudi Arabia for Royle Family's protection is that true?


----------



## blain2

thorosius said:


> I have heard that SSG people are posted in Saudi Arabia for Royle Family's protection is that true?



As far as I know, this is not true. Saudis have their own manpower to protect the Royal Family. They do not need SSG for that. Also the SSG is not tasked with protecting *anybody* aside from the Pakistani VVIPs. On the other hand, the SSG has been involved in the training of the Saudi and Gulf SF troops in this role though. SSG on a regular basis conducts FID training sessions for Gulf Forces.


----------



## JK!

Not to nit pick but apparantly the entire 4th Brigade is in Saudi Arabia for the Protection of the Saudi Royal family according to:

http://www.********************/PakArmy/ssg.html

Is this hearsay just to be absolutely clear


----------



## sehranasheens

SSG are not only for the protection of royal family but also for the protection of holy sites of muslim world


----------



## sehranasheens

SSG also evacuated the personels of deltaforce and Rangers in 1992 somalia operation when they weere butchering.

America is also requesting pakistan to send SSG in iraq.


----------



## Keysersoze

sehranasheens said:


> SSG also evacuated the personels of deltaforce and Rangers in 1992 somalia operation when they weere butchering.
> 
> America is also requesting pakistan to send SSG in iraq.



Here we go again....... 

No they weren't.......Pakistani Tanks and Malaysian APC's (with additional rangers on board)were used to rescue the members of that operation. 

So unless SSG were there to drive tanks they were not there....

Provide some links instead of making stuff up please.


----------



## Keysersoze

sehranasheens said:


> SSG are not only for the protection of royal family but also for the protection of holy sites of muslim world





blain2 said:


> As far as I know, this is not true. Saudis have their own manpower to protect the Royal Family. They do not need SSG for that. Also the SSG is not tasked with protecting *anybody* aside from the Pakistani VVIPs. On the other hand, the SSG has been involved in the training of the Saudi and Gulf SF troops in this role though. SSG on a regular basis conducts FID training sessions for Gulf Forces.



Here you go an instant answer to Sehrana's crap.....


----------



## blain2

JK! said:


> Not to nit pick but apparantly the entire 4th Brigade is in Saudi Arabia for the Protection of the Saudi Royal family according to:
> 
> http://www.********************/PakArmy/ssg.html
> 
> Is this hearsay just to be absolutely clear



At one time Pakistan had Div Plus presence in KSA. Not any more. As it is, SSG is small, secondment for duty in other countries is not a very big priority for the SSG. Training detachment is one thing, standing guard for someone else in another country an altogether different thing. Its not happening!


----------



## Always Neutral

Keysersoze said:


> Here we go again.......
> 
> No they weren't.......Pakistani Tanks and Malaysian APC's (with additional rangers on board)were used to rescue the members of that operation.
> 
> So unless SSG were there to drive tanks they were not there....
> 
> Provide some links instead of making stuff up please.



*I agree. The facts of Somalia are very well documented. No SSG was involved. USA SF made a bad operational mistake and thats that. US SF are not so pathetic that they need another SF to rescue them ! What they needed was immediate on ground supporting fire and evacuation which the Malaysians and Pakistanis provided since the operation happened in the area where the Pakistani Armed Forces were deployed.

Please remember the Americans went into the area which came under Pakistans supervison
to catch Aideed the warlord and did not bother to inform anybody.

regards*


----------



## Always Neutral

blain2 said:


> At one time Pakistan had Div Plus presence in KSA. Not any more. As it is, SSG is small, secondment for duty in other countries is not a very big priority for the SSG. Training detachment is one thing, standing guard for someone else in another country an altogether different thing. Its not happening!




This seems to be an old article. As far as I remember Pakistan withdrew all its forces except its advisors as Pakistan realised during the first Gulf War that to defend Saudi they may have to fight fellow muslims and not only Israelis. One must realise of all the foreign armies at that time Pakistan Army was the most suitable since they did not have women in their armies unlike the US or an EuropeanArmy and were fellow muslims and not to mention the most professional and were largely apolotical to the intrigues of the Saudi politics.

The Pakistan Army could not withdraw immediately after the First Gulf War as the Saudis had paid a lot of money as well as subsidised oil for the Pakistani Army to be stationed there. When the first Gulf War started the US Armed Forces swamped Saudi Arabia and have remained there and in Kuwait though they keep a very low profile. After the Gulf war You may remember OBL started his original Jihad to get the US army out of Saudi Arabia his country.

Now US armed forces are in total control there and the Saudi airforce has a big element of the RAF there. Hopefully we will get the GBP 40 Billion Yamamah-II contract ( Spread over 15 years) soon from Saudi.

Regards

PS : This info was from an RAF Wing Cdr who spent 3 years there till early 2007 and an ale buddy


----------



## blain2

Always Neutral said:


> *I agree. The facts of Somalia are very well documented. No SSG was involved. USA SF made a bad operational mistake and thats that. US SF are not so pathetic that they need another SF to rescue them ! What they needed was immediate on ground supporting fire and evacuation which the Malaysians and Pakistanis provided since the operation happened in the area where the Pakistani Armed Forces were deployed.
> 
> Please remember the Americans went into the area which came under Pakistans supervison
> to catch Aideed the warlord and did not bother to inform anybody.
> 
> regards*



True but one thing. Its a minor one but the evacuation was led by Pakistan and then Malaysian toops. The firepower was provided by Pakistani tanks and transport by Pakistani and Malaysian APCs. Pakistani M-48A5s were in use in Somalia at that time.


----------



## SSG

how can i join ssg


----------



## Keysersoze

Start by joining the army.......


----------



## niaz

Always Neutral said:


> This seems to be an old article. As far as I remember Pakistan withdrew all its forces except its advisors as Pakistan realised during the first Gulf War that to defend Saudi they may have to fight fellow muslims and not only Israelis. One must realise of all the foreign armies at that time Pakistan Army was the most suitable since they did not have women in their armies unlike the US or an EuropeanArmy and were fellow muslims and not to mention the most professional and were largely apolotical to the intrigues of the Saudi politics.
> 
> The Pakistan Army could not withdraw immediately after the First Gulf War as the Saudis had paid a lot of money as well as subsidised oil for the Pakistani Army to be stationed there. When the first Gulf War started the US Armed Forces swamped Saudi Arabia and have remained there and in Kuwait though they keep a very low profile. After the Gulf war You may remember OBL started his original Jihad to get the US army out of Saudi Arabia his country.
> 
> Now US armed forces are in total control there and the Saudi airforce has a big element of the RAF there. Hopefully we will get the GBP 40 Billion Yamamah-II contract ( Spread over 15 years) soon from Saudi.
> 
> Regards
> 
> PS : This info was from an RAF Wing Cdr who spent 3 years there till early 2007 and an ale buddy



If I remember correctly, PA was in Saudi Arabia before the First Gulf War; it was during the time of Zia and the Afghan jehad. There was an incident where one Saudi officer was being indecent towards wife of a Pakistani officer, a PA Hawaldar who saw the incident shot the Saudi Officer. Incredibly the Saudi survived but the whole brigade to which the NCO belonged was disarmed by the Saudis. Very soon after Pakistani contingent was replaced by the Bangla Deshis. Any of the Hon members of the forum who were serving in the PA at that time might remember the incident. I read it in the Time Magzine or such place. May be Hon Murad K recalls this as well.

Our contingent in first gulf war stayed for a very short time only and didnot take part in the fighting. Since the Gulf war, US presence has been so heavy in KSA, there has been no need for any foreign troops.


----------



## Always Neutral

niaz said:


> If I remember correctly, PA was in Saudi Arabia before the First Gulf War; it was during the time of Zia and the Afghan jehad. There was an incident where one Saudi officer was being indecent towards wife of a Pakistani officer, a PA Hawaldar who saw the incident shot the Saudi Officer. Incredibly the Saudi survived but the whole brigade to which the NCO belonged was disarmed by the Saudis. Very soon after Pakistani contingent was replaced by the Bangla Deshis. Any of the Hon members of the forum who were serving in the PA at that time might remember the incident. I read it in the Time Magzine or such place. May be Hon Murad K recalls this as well.
> 
> Our contingent in first gulf war stayed for a very short time only and didnot take part in the fighting. Since the Gulf war, US presence has been so heavy in KSA, there has been no need for any foreign troops.




You are probably very right.

Regards


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

It seems to me that the SSG is going to be called upon to do these "Lal Masjid" kinds of operations more and more. Regardless of the message that was sent with the annihilation of the Lal Masjid, other madrassas (those who share the militant bent of the Mullah bradran) and terrorists are going to continue to stockpile weapons and instigate violence. 

If anything, expect the next siege to be much harder because I would expect any such madrassas to start taking lessons from the Lal Masjid episode. The tribal areas are already notorious for having tunnel complexes under the safe houses that the militants use. Didn't Nek Muhammad initially escape from that massive siege from the PA by using tunnels that went out for several miles? This would mean that the sort of terrain the SSG is going to predominantly fight on is going to be extremely inhospitable and cramped. 

Perhaps a good time to start discussing ground/wall penetrating radar acquisitions? Does anyone know if the SOTF and Zarrar Co. of the SSG train in mock urban settings? Perhaps we should turn the Jamia Hafsa into an SSG training compound; tunnels, basements, haphazard construction, 75 rooms.


----------



## Keysersoze

Dude wall penetration is easily done with any good engineer unit. In CQB of this size it is hard to have no casualties...


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Keysersoze said:


> Dude wall penetration is easily done with any good engineer unit. In CQB of this size it is hard to have no casualties...



Now when you speak of wall penetration, are you talking about demolition and/or creating access through walls?

Your point about casualties is valid.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that we have already seen Tribal militants utilize tunnel systems, that the Army was not aware of, to escape assaults and sieges. In the Lal Masjid operation, "allegedly" the tunnel system and basements under the complex caused a lot of headaches. Just wondering if utilization of GPR, before operations, would allow for fewer incidents where unknown tunnels allow militants to escape. For all I know, the technology may not even be applicable in the rocky terrain of FATA.


----------



## Keysersoze

Wall penetration is a simple matter of a shape charge. When we did FIBUA we had the facility for mouse hole charges to break into buildings. OOE would be the best guy to talk to regarding this as it is a engineering problem.

The basic reason I believe that there were any casualties at all is that the SSG were probably restricted in the means they could use in their room clearances. (I.E. they had to be careful in case hostages were in the room.)


----------



## extinct

blain2 said:


> Let me end by stating that in 1966, it was decided by the PA to disband the SSG owing to its failures in the 65 war. A complete anlysis was done by the GHQ on these ops and it was found that it was not really the SSG capabilities but unrealistic expectations and improper employment that led to failures. When senior commanders from SSG started getting into the higher echelons of the Army, this perception was corrected greatly and SSG has been used very effectively in many operations such as those I have highlighted above. The SSG performance in the 1971 war was very good (but was overshadowed by the fall of EP). Otherwise in West Pakistani border and even during the CI ops by the SSG Bns, success rate was very high.



In 1965:
1) every SSG asset who was called in did what he was asked of despite knowing full well the "suicide" nature of the mission.
2) Op planning was beyond dismal which was NOT done by SSG at all:
- pre-historic maps as reference.
- para-drops at incorrect co-ordinates.
- canal drownings of SSG assets w/ comm. equip.
- NO recent recon. of the op. area.
- absurd evac. plan "a PAF cargo plane will land and evac. the SSG"
3) The side-effect aim of the op. was to distract the indians and that did work, the indians moved their assets back to protect bridges and power-stations.

lets just say I know a very very close blood relative who led one of the teams, survived for days, carried out sabotage ops. and then got captured eventually...  

It would have been the biggest possible loss to PA if they had disbanded this unit of brave souls. GHQ knew what imposibility they had asked Mitha's men to do in 1965 and they got just what they asked for. The idea of disbanding was floated to shift the blame...   

SF ops. are won and lost on the drawing boards as the odds are already so much against that SF are called in.


----------



## Always Neutral

Keysersoze said:


> Wall penetration is a simple matter of a shape charge. When we did FIBUA we had the facility for mouse hole charges to break into buildings. OOE would be the best guy to talk to regarding this as it is a engineering problem.
> 
> The basic reason I believe that there were any casualties at all is that the SSG were probably restricted in the means they could use in their room clearances. (I.E. they had to be careful in case hostages were in the room.)




Dear Keys,

I did not see a single AMR. Actually the SSG do not look well equiped. Ok I know I am going to get a lot of flack from Pakistani Friends but the SSG looked like normal infantry.

Regards


----------



## Keysersoze

Always Neutral said:


> Dear Keys,
> 
> I did not see a single AMR. Actually the SSG do not look well equiped. Ok I know I am going to get a lot of flack from Pakistani Friends but the SSG looked like normal infantry.
> 
> Regards



AN you didn't see any RPG's either but then RPG's would have been the wrong thing to use here. There was a picture here (on one of the threads) of the assault troops fully kitted out with body armour helmets and weapons.


----------



## Always Neutral

Keysersoze said:


> AN you didn't see any RPG's either but then RPG's would have been the wrong thing to use here. There was a picture here (on one of the threads) of the assault troops fully kitted out with body armour helmets and weapons.




Dear Keys,

Agreed a lot of things go unseen and my comments may not be in right context and before I post them I would like all the people to know I am not doubting the SSG mens capabilities.

I have been for long involved with beureaucrats and can read the double speak.

For eg : I read one Pakistani official saying (the Gen. also repeated it ) that they did not go and enter the LM in the night as they were negotiating and did not want any women casualties.

My Translation : the SSG had no 5the Gen night sights to mount such operations ?

For eg : I saw so many photos of your kids with AK's and gas masks in broad daylight.

My Translation : Either the SSG had no clear orders or just no good sniper rifles ?

The body armour of the SSG looked very worn and obselete to.

Regards


----------



## Always Neutral

Always Neutral said:


> Dear Keys,
> 
> 
> For eg : I saw so many photos of your kids with AK's and gas masks in broad daylight.
> 
> Regards



SORRY I MEANT YOUNG KIDS. APOLOGIES AGAIN.

regds


----------



## Keysersoze

Always Neutral said:


> Dear Keys,
> 
> Agreed a lot of things go unseen and my comments may not be in right context and before I post them I would like all the people to know I am not doubting the SSG mens capabilities.
> 
> I have been for long involved with beureaucrats and can read the double speak.
> 
> For eg : I read one Pakistani official saying (the Gen. also repeated it ) that they did not go and enter the LM in the night as they were negotiating and did not want any women casualties.
> 
> My Translation : the SSG had no 5the Gen night sights to mount such operations ?
> 
> For eg : I saw so many photos of your kids with AK's and gas masks in broad daylight.
> 
> My Translation : Either the SSG had no clear orders or just no good sniper rifles ?
> 
> The body armour of the SSG looked very worn and obselete to.
> 
> Regards



Well to be honest AN whilst I agree that bureaucrats are full of crap. I think that you are reading too much into what they are saying.
Pak does have Nightvision equipment (I can personally buy some if I wanted (latest gen)) So I am sure the PA would have some. It does not mean that they are going to be the best thing to use in the circumstances. 
The pictures of kids with masks etc were taken early on in the siege. SO to take that as a indication that they had no good sniper rifles would be again incorrect.
As to the body armour the same applies. If I could find the picture you would see the assault element was wearing full body armour, Kevlar helmets etc etc the full whack.....With the army as a whole the kit issue MAY have played an issue. however the Specialist units would have more than enough....


----------



## smt

i saw pictures of the comandoes using long rifles and gun of the sort. if they were in close quarter battle, shouldnt they have used cqb guns like the p90 or mp5? theyr lles combersome and would have helped manouvering around in rooms and narrow coridors of the masjid


----------



## Keysersoze

p-90 And mp5 are not "CQB guns" 
If the enemy has body armour they would be next to useless.


----------



## GOD OF WAR

Key,

P90 and MP5 are adquete for CQB work. Agreed the 9mm round in the MP5 lacks the terminal velocity to punch through armoour. but ur forgetting AP rounds. 9mm AP rounds would have done the job. 

Secondly the P90 ammo, 5.7mm is widely advertised and proven by independent sources as well as NATO standards to defeat titanium plates combined with upto 7 layers of kevlar.

Agreed that the cabine caliber is far more superior, the above two would have been adequate for the Lal Masjid Op.


----------



## blain2

I think the involvement of the SSG has to be understood before making comments.

There were a couple of components involved in the operation both from the SSG. The ones who went in for the initial room clearing and not even photographed were the operators from the Zarrar coy. I know and have seen their equipment and it is as high tech and similar as those worn by CT units around the world. They may not have the very latest NVGs, but what they have is more than sufficient. The guys in this company are fully trained in MoE type stuff and 1/2 of the casualties (5) happened when they were on the roof of the school (daylight had almost broken instead of starting off in the middle of the night as was planned due to prolonged negotiations). 

There are very few pictures of the Zarrar Company operators since the media was completely barred by that time. Once the initial clearing was done then operators from Special Operations Bn (I believe SOTF is formed of operators from this bn) went in (these guys were the ones who were photographed the most) and essentially they were very lightly kitted. All of the Zarrar company operators are equipped with CQB weapons. 

I am not sure what having an AMR would have done when the problem was sorting out the militants amongst women and other non-combatants. Sniper rifles were used (pictures are available of SSG69 etc.).

Overall, by any analysis, the SSG did a fine job. Had the operation started in the middle of the night, the casualties in my opinion at least would have been even lower. 

SSG has a FIBUA syllabus and certain units within the SSG tasked with these types of operations undergo considerable training in this aspect. The whole reason the Special Operations Bn was raised is due to this need.


----------



## Bull

Can you post some of those pics you were mentioning, probably in the multimedia section.


----------



## blain2

Bull said:


> Can you post some of those pics you were mentioning, probably in the multimedia section.



Its of the injured operators being brought into the hospital. They are the ones with black overalls. Just search on yahoo news or getty images.

Here are a few of the Zarrar company's getup in general, not specific to LM:


----------



## Bull

Thanks dude, i will search and if i get good snaps i shall post it here.


----------



## blain2

Here is one:
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/753...4AD9FDB9CF193550E821156FDE6122130272DFEBE15F0


----------



## Keysersoze

GOD OF WAR said:


> Key,
> 
> P90 and MP5 are adquete for CQB work. Agreed the 9mm round in the MP5 lacks the terminal velocity to punch through armoour. but ur forgetting AP rounds. 9mm AP rounds would have done the job.
> 
> Secondly the P90 ammo, 5.7mm is widely advertised and proven by independent sources as well as NATO standards to defeat titanium plates combined with upto 7 layers of kevlar.
> 
> Agreed that the cabine caliber is far more superior, the above two would have been adequate for the Lal Masjid Op.



I think you guys are suffering from shiny kit syndrome...... The weapons they used were perfectly fine. 
Since most soldiers around the world train for CQB with the standard weapons they are issued with, the idea that they need specialist weapons is spurious.


----------



## smt

i agree that the ssgs did a good job, but i read in the news that over 160 operatives went into the mosque. according to the media, around 80 militants were killed, so the special forces outnumbered the militants 2 to 1. doesnt anyone think even 9 comando casualties was a bit high? corect me if im wrong.


----------



## blain2

smt said:


> i agree that the ssgs did a good job, but i read in the news that over 160 operatives went into the mosque. according to the media, around 80 militants were killed, so the special forces outnumbered the militants 2 to 1. doesnt anyone think even 9 comando casualties was a bit high? corect me if im wrong.



Right but the success of the mission has nothing to do with ratio. This is not an issue of personal courage (how many did each person bag). In order to be successful, you have to use utmost resources and personnel for maximum effect and quickest results.

Secondly, depending on the site where the operation was conducted, 160 operators does not mean all of them moved in at the same time. They were probably broken into separate teams and given different objectives (school, women's hostel, etc. etc.). So the number of operators vs. defenders is not a valid way of assesing success at least in my opinion.

The casualties, even one is one too many. I have listed the reason as to why at least 5 operators were hit. Maybe if the operators had more time and darkness on their side, the casualties would have been less. It seems the room clearing was done with precision (even though that is the most difficult part) and as a result many were injured but not very many KIA.

In all honesty, I feel sorry writing all of this...I write this from an analytical standpoint, but those killed were all Pakistanis and there is nothing that can change the sorrow for those (regardless of how misguided or zealous they were). I feel that many of our very finest died in trying to dislodge these folks and many of these folks who died defending their stand were just misled.


----------



## smt

blain, the injured comando in the picture you posted looked kind on in bad shape. i saw other pics of comandoes severely injured. do you know if these guys made it, or were the KIA injured operatives who later diceased in hospitals, or were they KIA during the operation.


----------



## Muradk

smt said:


> blain, the injured comando in the picture you posted looked kind on in bad shape. i saw other pics of comandoes severely injured. do you know if these guys made it, or were the KIA injured operatives who later diceased in hospitals, or were they KIA during the operation.



Blain which photo are they talking about please can you show it to me. Thank you


----------



## smt

heres the pic i was talking about, posted by blain
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/7535...30272DFEBE15F0


----------



## Mercenary

What is the drop out rate for candidates joining the SSG?

The British SAS has like 95&#37; and US Navy SEALs have like 70%...


----------



## blain2

smt said:


> heres the pic i was talking about, posted by blain
> http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/7535...30272DFEBE15F0



SMT your link is not working.

Murad sahib, its my post 176 on this thread.

SMT I am not sure about the specifics of which operators died where. I am sure a few made the ultimate sacrifice at the location of the operation, others may have passed away in the hospital.


----------



## blain2

Mercenary said:


> What is the drop out rate for candidates joining the SSG?
> 
> The British SAS has like 95&#37; and US Navy SEALs have like 70%...



Well that is a hard number to peg. I don't want to pull a number out of my rear and make it really high just to make SSG sound more difficult than other SF outfits. I would say that given the tough physical regimen, the drop out rate would be pretty similar to others. The selection criteria is very tough. I do know of cases where PN sent about 100 or so sailors for SSG training (prior to setting up of SSG/N) and SSG sent back every single one of these guys back for various reasons.

Officers are put through the training in batches of 20 or so. In the end about 7-8 or the guys get their SSG wings. I would say the same ratio for non-officers as well. Induction is a tough thing to get through. Certain course have had only 5-6 inducted (at least this was the case with my acquaintances), other courses have had more. It just depends on the intake (pretty much the same deal as other SF units elsewhere in the world). I do know that those US Army officers who have seen the SSG training regimen rate it as very tough. Its been termed as a very "labour intensive" course by the US observers.


----------



## karpov

A colleague of mine, whose two cousins were in the LM as students, one walked out the first day and the second was captured last day, has revealed that many inside LM were killed by laser pointing guns. He said they would see a laser pointing at a person/militant and the next thing they would see was that person on the ground probably dead
Can any one confirm what range laser guns SSG have? Thanks


----------



## blain2

karpov said:


> A colleague of mine, whose two cousins were in the LM as students, one walked out the first day and the second was captured last day, has revealed that many inside LM were killed by laser pointing guns. He said they would see a laser pointing at a person/militant and the next thing they would see was that person on the ground probably dead
> Can any one confirm what range laser guns SSG have? Thanks



There is no laser gun as such, just laser gun sights/pointers for the MP-5s, M-4s etc. The range is usually around 50-150 yards.


----------



## Mercenary

how many times a year does the SSG hold their induction process?

the US Navy SEALs hold it 4 times a year while the British SAS twice a year


----------



## blain2

Mercenary said:


> how many times a year does the SSG hold their induction process?
> 
> the US Navy SEALs hold it 4 times a year while the British SAS twice a year



Before the SSG was upgraded to a divisional command, it used to have two inductions per year. However with the formation of Special Operations School and expansion to 2 brigades (and later a 3rd one), I suspect either the number of candidates per course or the number of courses offered within the year would be increased. I am not sure what has been done as of late with regards to this.


----------



## sehranasheen

well friends i live in peshawar and often goes to para TRG school of SSG. now a days there is a saudi company training here .


----------



## sunlibo1986

China and Pakistan&#65292;we are brothers!


----------



## blain2

SSG (Army) and SSG(Navy) operators off to Turkey for Joint SF exercise "Jinnah V". Turks reciprocate by coming to Pakistan for the "Attaturk" series of exercises.

This is the first time operators from both SSG A & N are going to Turkey. Good example of "Jointedness"!

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i123/blain2/20Aug1-2007.jpg

RAWALPINDI, August 20: A contingent comprising troops of Pakistan Army and Navy left here today for Turkey to participate in Pakistan &#8211; Turkey Joint Special Services Group Exercise Jinnah-V. The Exercise will begin tomorrow.
The ten days long exercises is aimed at developing a better understanding among participating troops from both side, benefit from each other&#8217;s experiences and carryout hands on training under challenging conditions. Participating troops would practice air assault and anti terrorist operations during day and night.
It may be mentioned that Pakistan &#8211; Turkey joint exercises are a regular feature which reflects the close relationship between the two brotherly countries and their Armed Forces. Last year exercises were held in Pakistan.
Earlier, Brigadier Muhammad Ibrahim saw off the Pakistan contingent at PAF Base Chaklala.


----------



## Mujahid

Does anyone have a picture of Lt. Col Haroon Islam after he got killed ??


----------



## A.Rahman

Mujahid said:


> Does anyone have a picture of Lt. Col Haroon Islam after he got killed ??



That would be disrespecting the dead.


----------



## Mujahid

There was also a picture of that Takfiri Abdul Rasheed Ghazi,

why not Lt Col Haroon


----------



## blain2

There should not be a picture of anyone period! Its morbid to see the picture of the dead.


----------



## EagleEyes

Mujahid,

To me you seem like an extremist of some sort. You have been posting terrorist multimedia on the forum, and supporting terrorists from the back side. I will request that you put end to that immediately, or you will be banned forever.

Its sad to see that your terrorist militia is cutting the heads of our soldiers, protectors of our fatherland because we are supporting USA and not allowing these extremists to hurt our country and misguide our children?


----------



## Mujahid

Assalamu Alaykum,

I AM NOT AN EXTREMIST	

neither I had supported Al-Qaeda or any of their Takfiri minded people like Lal Masjid etc. in any of my posts, I have also posted the facts of the crimes of Al-Qaeda.

Yes, I posted a resistance video of Al-Rashedeen Army from Iraq who are not extremists and they are fighting the American criminal occupation for the defence of Islam and their country as shown in their video, thats truely Islamic and every muslim should support them just like they support Hamas.

I am now posting about the mass level disinformation of chemical weapons use on Lal Masjid which the mullahs are making to defame our army and show that they are the only good muslims.

than I will post the assessment of Pakistani Think Tank BRASSTACKS about the the Lal Masjid exposing the realities.

if its possible restore the video "The code of silence"


----------



## blain2

A very good article on the SSG!

*The phantom soldiers at the Lal Masjid*


By Javed Hussain


IN the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian-held Kashmir (IHK) came under a sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and their bridge were no more.

On a sultry night in September 1965, a convoy of heavy trailers carrying tanks was moving on a road in IHK when it suddenly came under rocket and machine gun fire. A dozen tanks exploded and burst into flames.

In early December 1971, shortly after midnight, a column of Indian infantry was moving towards the front in IHK to reinforce one of their positions that was under attack, when it was hit from a flank by sweeping machine gun fire. Within minutes of the attack, the column had perished.

In all three cases the phantom soldiers who conducted these attacks were the chosen ones of the Pakistan Army  commandos of the Special Service Group (SSG). Skilled in the use of weapons, they handle machine guns, sub-machine guns and pistols as if these were an extension of their hands, firing from the hip with speed and accuracy, even on the move. They are masters of the close quarter battle.

Designed to conduct operations behind the enemy lines, SSG also specialises in guerrilla, anti-guerrilla and anti-terrorist operations. Of these, the most demanding operations are the ones that are carried out deep behind the enemy lines. Such operations require the highest state of physical and mental toughness, resourcefulness, and the ability to remain cool and motivated, far beyond the bounds of conventional human endurance.

Selection for service with the SSG is, therefore, tough. Volunteers from all over the army apply but two-thirds are rejected during the selection phase, and one-third of the selected during the training phase. Those who finally make it, earn the distinction to wear the maroon beret and the coveted SSG badge on their chest. These men are too precious to be wasted on activities of conventional soldiers, yet those who should know better, continue to misuse them on guard duties and personal security functions.

Occasionally, SSG troops too, tend to misuse their skills! One of the SSG units was due to be inspected by a GHQ team. There was a growing sense of anxiety in the unit as many of their jeeps had become unserviceable for want of spare parts, and these were not forthcoming. They solved the problem their way. A night before the inspection, a few men stealthily penetrated the motor park of an artillery unit, some 20 kilometres away, and went about removing the required parts from the jeeps parked there, quickly and in silence. Job done, they returned to base, and come inspection time, the unserviceable jeeps were ready and running.

The following morning, when the commanding officer of the artillery unit learned that his jeeps had been mysteriously cannibalised, he nearly collapsed and had to undergo overnight hospitalisation. SSG commandos are trained to find a way or make one  they had done just thatbut GHQ was not amused.

Conducted in five phases (planning, preparation, infiltration, attack, and exfiltration), an SSG operation depends entirely on the achievement of surprise to succeed. When the plan is not based on precise and accurate intelligence, the element of surprise is compromised, as happened to the SSG operations in September 1965 against the Indian airbases at Pathankot, Adampur and Halwara. Planned hastily and based on outdated intelligence and maps, they had ended in disaster. The topographical changes that had taken place in the area of operations, were missing from the maps.

The result was that most of the commandos had landed in settlements that were not supposed to be there. As a consequence, within minutes of their landing, the alarm was raised. With surprise lost, the odds were now stacked against them. The next 48 hours saw them fighting running battles with their pursuers until their ammunition ran out. The cream of the army had been sacrificed in a needless operation against targets that were subsequently taken out by the PAF, many times over.

SSG teams are infiltrated behind the enemy lines either by land, air or sea. Insertion by land is hazardous and time-consuming as it involves crossing the frontlines, whereas the air option, in which the preferred means is by helicopter, is the least hazardous and quickest.

But when helicopter insertion is precluded, freefall parachutes are used to make either HALO (high altitude, low opening) or HAHO (high altitude, high opening) jumps. HALO jumps are made inside the enemy territory, with the parachute being opened low, while HAHO jumps are made inside ones own territory close to the border, with the parachute being opened high, and then manoeuvred towards the area designated for landing inside the enemy territory.

Having landed, whether by helicopter or parachute, they begin the final approach to the target, and once they get within striking distance, all hell is let loose. Minutes later, they are gone as suddenly as they had come, leaving behind a trail of blood and destruction.

Now begins exfiltration, the most challenging of all phases. The quickest way is extraction by helicopter. But the real challenge starts, especially in the plains, when this is ruled out. It is now that their physical and mental toughness, resourcefulness and the ability to remain cool and motivated, come under severe test, as they struggle to get back across a broad expanse of hostile territory with the enemy in hot pursuit.

SSG is a small force, but when employed correctly, it can create effects on the enemy out of all proportion to its size. When viewed against the fact that the Pakistan army will have to fight a future conventional war outnumbered and win it, SSG is a force multiplier. Therefore, it is best used in support of the armys strategic offensives to create a strategic impact on the enemy.

For instance, in 1965, if the army had followed up Operation Grand Slam with another offensive in Ravi-Chenab corridor, the SSG could have been employed simultaneously against the headworks on River Ravi and the crossings on River Beas, ahead of the offensive. These actions would have isolated the Ravi-Chenab corridor and delayed the induction of Indian army formations into the Ravi-Beas corridor, thus giving a decisive lead to Pakistani war directors in all the dimensions of operational strategy.

Having missed the opportunity to win the war in 1965, they should have atoned for it by doing the same in October 1971 when the build-up of Indian forces against East Pakistan was well underway. Unfortunately for Pakistan, they missed this opportunity too. In the two wars directed by them, their performance was marked by lack of imagination and daring. Stated simply, they had the force, but did not know how to use it. But, that is another story. Fortunately for Pakistan, the Indian captains of war too, were equally incompetent, if not more.

Operation Silence, the SSG operation against Jamia Hafsa/Lal Masjid complex was quite unlike Operation Nimrod, the British SAS (Special Air Service) operation in May 1980 against six terrorists who had seized the Iranian embassy in London and made 26 people hostage. The SAS had complete information about the terrorists, hostages and the 50-room six-storeyed embassy, and had carried out rehearsals on full size replicas. The result was that the operation involving 50 SAS troops, took only 17 minutes to eliminate the terrorists and rescue the hostages.

On the other hand, the SSG operation against the Jamia Hafsa was launched on what was at best, sketchy information about the people holed up inside the complex. Even today a controversy is raging about the number of people present in the complex at the time of the operation. How many were there and how many among them were hostages? If there were hostages, were they lodged separately, if so, where? How many militants were armed and what weapons were held by them? Where were the militants deployed?

These questions must have been raised by the SSG, but were clearly left unanswered. The fact that none inside the complex survived the attack, clearly shows that the SSG was given to understand that everyone inside was armed and dangerous.

That those inside were able to resist the SSG for so long and inflict casualties on them, is a testimony to their preparadness and grit, as much as it is to the courage, dash and skill of the SSG under adversity.



DAWN - Opinion; August 28, 2007


----------



## EagleEyes

> Occasionally, SSG troops too, tend to misuse their skills! One of the SSG units was due to be inspected by a GHQ team. There was a growing sense of anxiety in the unit as many of their jeeps had become unserviceable for want of spare parts, and these were not forthcoming. They solved the problem their way. A night before the inspection, a few men stealthily penetrated the motor park of an artillery unit, some 20 kilometres away, and went about removing the required parts from the jeeps parked there, quickly and in silence. Job done, they returned to base, and come inspection time, the unserviceable jeeps were ready and running.



Nice!


----------



## F.O.X

A very Nice Artical.

But my best part was.



> Occasionally, SSG troops too, tend to misuse their skills! One of the SSG units was due to be inspected by a GHQ team. There was a growing sense of anxiety in the unit as many of their jeeps had become unserviceable for want of spare parts, and these were not forthcoming. They solved the problem their way. A night before the inspection, a few men stealthily penetrated the motor park of an artillery unit, some 20 kilometres away, and went about removing the required parts from the jeeps parked there, quickly and in silence. Job done, they returned to base, and come inspection time, the unserviceable jeeps were ready and running.


LOL



Regards
Wilco


----------



## fatman17

dont know if this good news or bad news


----------



## F.O.X

It is surely bad news for the Artilary Commander.


Regards
Wilco


----------



## Always Neutral

10 soldiers killed in Pakistan - Yahoo! News

QUOTE[Maj. Gen. Waheed Arshad, the spokesman for Pakistan's army, confirmed to Pakistan's private Geo news channels that 10 soldiers were killed and six wounded, but he would not say what caused the blast.

The two intelligence officials also said the victims belonged to the *army's Karar commando *group, which has participated in operations against militants in various parts of the country in recent years.]QUOTE

Its just breaking news. I wonder if the suicide bomber was an outsider or SSG man. There are speculations that 3 CIA americans nationals died.

Best Regards


----------



## F.O.X

> 10 soldiers killed in Pakistan - Yahoo! News
> 
> QUOTE[Maj. Gen. Waheed Arshad, the spokesman for Pakistan's army, confirmed to Pakistan's private Geo news channels that 10 soldiers were killed and six wounded, but he would not say what caused the blast.
> 
> The two intelligence officials also said the victims belonged to the army's Karar commando group, which has participated in operations against militants in various parts of the country in recent years.]QUOTE
> 
> Its just breaking news. I wonder if the suicide bomber was an outsider or SSG man. There are speculations that 3 CIA americans nationals died.
> 
> Best Regards



What ever it is it is really bad we r loosin our men buy the hands of our men what the hell is this, when it is gona end ?. Clear these Terrorists at once or we will be having more casualities. 
END IT AT ONCE no mercy.


Regards
Wilco


----------



## Always Neutral

WILCO said:


> What ever it is it is really bad we r loosin our men buy the hands of our men what the hell is this, when it is gona end ?. Clear these Terrorists at once or we will be having more casualities.
> END IT AT ONCE no mercy.
> 
> 
> Regards
> Wilco



Maybe the SSG men were not the targets but the CIA men who were dining in the SSG mess were.

Regards


----------



## F.O.X

It was not for this only see what is happening in Wazirastan we are loosing our defenders for nothing.


Regards
Wilco


----------



## karpov

WILCO said:


> What ever it is it is really bad we r loosin our men buy the hands of our men what the hell is this, when it is gona end ?. Clear these Terrorists at once or we will be having more casualities.
> END IT AT ONCE no mercy.
> 
> 
> Regards
> Wilco



Would you like to reveal how should this be "ended at once", with "no mercy".


----------



## karpov

Always Neutral said:


> Maybe the SSG men were not the targets but the CIA men who were dining in the SSG mess were.
> 
> Regards




No sir, blast took place in Jawans' mess. CIA men would be sitting in officers mess.


----------



## Cheetah786

15 killed in Tarbela Cantt blast 
ISLAMABAD (September 14 2007): At least 15 elite commandos were killed in a suspected suicide blast in the dining area of a high-security army camp in Tarbela, officials said on Thursday. Eleven others were wounded, six seriously, in the explosion which coincided with heavy fighting in north Waziristan and the visit of US Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte.

"The commandos were taking dinner in their mess at Tarbela town when a suspected suicide bomber blew himself up at its gate," a security official told AFP. Chief military spokesman Major General Waheed Arshad, however, said the authorities were investigating the incident. "We are checking the cause of the blast which occurred in the dining hall for the army unit," he told AFP.

Pakistan has suffered a string of attacks since the raid of Red Mosque in Islamabad in July, piling pressure on key US ally in "war on terror" President Pervez Musharraf as he struggles with a political crisis ahead of general and presidential elections. Interior ministry spokesman Brigadier Javed Cheema said the attacks had suspected links to pro-Taliban militants backed by al Qaeda who are fighting the military in tribal areas.


----------



## F.O.X

> Would you like to reveal how should this be "ended at once", with "no mercy".


No negotiations, no dead lines just tell them either live a happy Pakistani life or ready to b perish.

Regards
Wilco


----------



## EagleEyes

Are these our guys?


----------



## F.O.X

^^
I Think it is a Combined UNO mission. May be i am wrong.


Regards
Wilco


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## EagleEyes

It is combined but they are in exercise.


----------



## F.O.X

> It is combined but they are in exercise.



This combination does not involve any high profile countries.so it is possibles they are Getting trained by Pakistani Personals. for HALO ot HAHO jump.

Regards
Wilco


----------



## blain2

WebMaster said:


> Are these our guys?



This is a picture from a Special Forces competition called "Airborne Africa" hosted by South Africa in 2004. It was attended by the Pakistani SSG and also the Indian SF. Pakistan came in fourth overall behind Dutch SF and Indian SF. South African SF took the first spot. Indians totally kicked *** in the shooting competition and speed march (scoring 50/50) and Pakistan scoring low on both 43/50. Overall the top 4 teams SA, India, Dutch and Pakistan were scored 
479, 471, 465, and 456 respectively. The next team, which was # 5 came in with 427 points. The good teams pulled away considerably from the others.

The picture you see is of the free-fall component and includes operators from 17 teams including Germany, UK, Pakistan, India, Nigeria, South Africa, Holland, Egypt, Malaysia etc. etc. The competition even had representation from UK SF.


----------



## solid snake

WILCO said:


> No negotiations, no dead lines just tell them either live a happy Pakistani life or ready to b perish.
> 
> Regards
> Wilco



I like the way you think. No negotiations with terrorists; just a bullet with their name on it.



blain2 said:


> This is a picture from a Special Forces competition called "Airborne Africa" hosted by South Africa in 2004. It was attended by the Pakistani SSG and also the Indian SF. Pakistan came in fourth overall behind Dutch SF and Indian SF. South African SF took the first spot. Indians totally kicked *** in the shooting competition and speed march (scoring 50/50) and Pakistan scoring low on both 43/50. Overall the top 4 teams SA, India, Dutch and Pakistan were scored
> 479, 471, 465, and 456 respectively. The next team, which was # 5 came in with 427 points. The good teams pulled away considerably from the others.
> 
> The picture you see is of the free-fall component and includes operators from 17 teams including Germany, UK, Pakistan, India, Nigeria, South Africa, Holland, Egypt, Malaysia etc. etc. The competition even had SAS (from UK).



How do you know all this? Just curious.


----------



## blain2

solid snake said:


> How do you know all this? Just curious.



Because I was following it very closely.


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

blain2 said:


> This is a picture from a Special Forces competition called "Airborne Africa" hosted by South Africa in 2004. It was attended by the Pakistani SSG and also the Indian SF. Pakistan came in fourth overall behind Dutch SF and Indian SF. South African SF took the first spot. Indians totally kicked *** in the shooting competition and speed march (scoring 50/50) and Pakistan scoring low on both 43/50. Overall the top 4 teams SA, India, Dutch and Pakistan were scored
> 479, 471, 465, and 456 respectively. The next team, which was # 5 came in with 427 points. The good teams pulled away considerably from the others.
> 
> The picture you see is of the free-fall component and includes operators from 17 teams including Germany, UK, Pakistan, India, Nigeria, South Africa, Holland, Egypt, Malaysia etc. etc. The competition even had SAS (from UK).




Isn't the SAS considered one of the better trained SF units in the world, and they did not figure in the top four? Did they not compete in every "category"?


----------



## blain2

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Isn't the SAS considered one of the better trained SF units in the world, and they did not figure in the top four? Did they not compete in every "category"?



They came in at # 9 and were DQ'd on two events as they did not have the requisite number of operators in these events. But they did get graded on all (even though they finished the two events with incomplete teams) and came in with a final tally of 448. If they had not been penalized for those two events then they would have come 5th behind Pakistan with their total of 448.

The events were as follows:
Route March, Obstacle Crossing, Speed March, Shooting, Observation, Casevac, Grenade Throw, Navigation, Escape and Evasion.

In my opinion, in such competitions, its the less advanced SFs that do better because there isn't really a high tech aspect with which they would be better acquainted (back to the basics to make it a level playing field for all teams). There is more emphasis and reliance on physical aspects like excessive route marches/speed marches etc. (instead of being transported via heli support which is quite the norm for most western SFs). 

Also this particular competition should be looked at as a sporting event and the operators as athletes...some days you are on, and others you are not...


----------



## EagleEyes

blain2 said:


> Because I was following it very closely.



Any reason for a low performance by Pakistan? Have we not sent the best of the best?


----------



## blain2

WebMaster said:


> Any reason for a low performance by Pakistan? Have we not sent the best of the best?



Like I said, the scores were so close that the best of the best were right within a few points of each other. On a good day, Pakistan could have done even better, or on another, worse...the same goes for all teams...every team had some really crappy performance and good ones on others. The aggregate won the day. But as I mentioned the points were fairly close for at least the top 4 or 5 out of 17.

Think of it like a sporting event like Cricket or Hockey...we have good teams and sometimes they kick *** and at others they get their ***** kicked  

Overall at least I was happy that our guys were very much on the top and had certain things gone better, would have been in # 1/2 spot.


----------



## fatman17

seems like the emphasis was on physical fitness and hand eye co-ordination, both of which are important aspects for SFs.


----------



## Officer of Engineers

They were either former 22SAS or from one of the other SAS regiments. 22SAS members (as well as the SBS) are not allowed to identify themselves as of that regiment.


----------



## blain2

Officer of Engineers said:


> They were either former 22SAS or from one of the other SAS regiments. 22SAS members (as well as the SBS) are not allowed to identify themselves as of that regiment.



None of the unit members were identified by their regiments or units. I know that the Pakistani SSG was represented as Pakistan...Indian Para Commandos as Indian etc. etc. The only give away was that the qualification and level of performance required at the ex and that surely was for SF outfits and not regular infantry. The UK contingent could have been from SAS or from the Para Regts...all of the invitees were para qualified.


----------



## Officer of Engineers

Or from 21SAS or 23SAS.


----------



## blain2

Officer of Engineers said:


> Or from 21SAS or 23SAS.



Those are the UKSF reserve units right? Only 22SAS being the active one, is that correct?


----------



## Officer of Engineers

21SAS and 23SAS are Territorial Army regiments. Those qualified to join are former infantry recee as well as former SAS members. These are brigade recee elements more than the traditional irregular warfare 22SAS are famous for.


----------



## Keysersoze

Officer of Engineers said:


> 21SAS and 23SAS are Territorial Army regiments. Those qualified to join are former infantry recee as well as former SAS members. These are brigade recee elements more than the traditional irregular warfare 22SAS are famous for.



Actually you can walk off the street to join 21/23 SAS. They actually prefer it to getting troops from other units that have been "infected" with bad "habits". It's interesting that OOE makes the Recce distinction because the guys I know (22 and 21) don't really make the same.


----------



## Officer of Engineers

Keysersoze said:


> Actually you can walk off the street to join 21/23 SAS.


That's my understanding too. However, from my contacts, it would seemed the slots are reserved for former serving members.



Keysersoze said:


> They actually prefer it to getting troops from other units that have been "infected" with bad "habits". It's interesting that OOE makes the Recce distinction because the guys I know (22 and 21) don't really make the same.



You mind expanding on that? My contacts suggest that 21SAS and 23SAS fit within a battle group. 22SAS (and JTF II for that matter) does not.


----------



## Keysersoze

Officer of Engineers said:


> That's my understanding too. However, from my contacts, it would seemed the slots are reserved for former serving members.
> 
> 
> 
> You mind expanding on that? My contacts suggest that 21SAS and 23SAS fit within a battle group. 22SAS (and JTF II for that matter) does not.



I'll have to continue this via PM.........


----------



## blain2

Keysersoze said:


> Actually you can walk off the street to join 21/23 SAS. They actually prefer it to getting troops from other units that have been "infected" with bad "habits". It's interesting that OOE makes the Recce distinction because the guys I know (22 and 21) don't really make the same.



In the SSG too, there were some instances when the OR cadres were recruited directly from the intake going to regimental training centers for Infantry (I.e. they had just been selected into the Army and had not undergone any training). This intake proved to be one of the best batches of SSG troops with pretty much all of the troops reaching NCO/JCO ranks.


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Am I correct in assuming that the SSG also provides VIP security? 

Is there a dedicated wing under the SSG umbrella for this purpose, or do they just assign SSG personnel randomly to security details?


P.S: If there is no dedicated unit for providing VIP security currently, are there any plans to create such a unit, so as to allow the SSG to focus on their regular training etc.?


----------



## blain2

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Am I correct in assuming that the SSG also provides VIP security?
> 
> Is there a dedicated wing under the SSG umbrella for this purpose, or do they just assign SSG personnel randomly to security details?
> 
> 
> P.S: If there is no dedicated unit for providing VIP security currently, are there any plans to create such a unit, so as to allow the SSG to focus on their regular training etc.?



SSG has a fully trained CP team for VVIP security. The operators and officers are specifically selected and trained for this task as VVIP protection is one of the tasks assigned to the SSG. So the TO&E exists for this specific role as well..gone are the days of picking anyone and assigning them a task. In early 2000/1, the Special Operations School was formed to focus on specialization of roles (and to provide training accordingly) and since then, SSG has been focusing on assigning specific tasks to those teams that are most suitable for it. This was also the reason that a separate Special Operations Task Force was established to focus on CI/IS roles so not all SSG units are doing everything.

I personally am in the favor of having a dedicated VVIP protection team as SSG should be used for SF roles only. This will probably happen eventually once the President is no longer the CoAS. The way things are, Army like to protect their own, so you won't see an Army chief being protected by anyone aside from the SSG operators. The others like PM Shaukat also get the SSG protection b/c currently there is no alternate.


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## F.O.X

> SSG, YA THEY WERE GREAT IN 80S AND IN 90S BUT FOR NOW WE NEED A VERY DIFFERNT ELITE FORCE COME ON , IT IS 2007 ,WE R TALKINING ABOUT, I THINK ALL OF US SEEN THE MISSION THEY HAD DONE, IN LAL MASJID,? THT , IS NOT THE FORCE WE R LOOKING , WE HAD GO BACK TO BASIC TRANING? AND WITH OUR NEW ARMY CHIEF IN HAND, WE SHOULD BE LOOKING TO GET MORE, ADVANCED VERSIONS OF THE TRAININGS, OF USS ARMY, I MEAN, THE MARINES,THE SEALS AND ALSO WE SHOULD EQUIP THEM WITH REAL UPDATED GUNS AND TOOLS, GEARS, WE SHOULD NOW THT OUR SSG NEEDS, UPDATED TRAINING, AMUNATION, CUMMUNICATIONS, SYSTEMS, AND WE NT ONLY RELY ON AMMRECA, AS EXAMPLE FREANCH,SPECIAL FORCESS, WE CAN SEND SOME HIGH LEVEL DELIGATION TO LOOK 4 THIER TRAINING CENTERS?


First: colse your Capslock 

2nd: do some search & then post

tnx


Regards
Wilco


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## Keysersoze

dahmed0 said:


> ALSO WE NEED TO HAVE A LARGE,FORCE, AS BIG AS IT GETS ITS OWN GENRAL?



As has been said before.......

Turn off the capslock.......

Secondly look up the concept of "special forces" nd then post otherwise you look stupid.....


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## blain2

ISPR SSG Documentary:

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## blain2

SSG @ Bright Star 07. I am not sure if these have been posted elsewhere.


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## blain2

Some more images of SSG operators at Bright Star 07:





CAIRO NOVEMBER 12: The ongoing Coalition Military Exercise, Bright Star between Pakistan, Egypt, US, Kuwait, Germany, France, Great Britain, Greece, Italy, Jordan, Netherlands, Turkey and Yemen entered into the next phase. Excellent display of joint operations is being presented by the participating troops. Exercise setting focuses mostly on integrated training through demonstrations, Lectures and joint operations enabling participants to learn from the experiences of each other. Special Operations troops of Pakistan, Egypt, Kuwait, Yemen and France are carrying out exercises near Mubarak Military City while the other participants are committed in mastering their skills in military maneuvers west of Cairo. A demonstration of survival exercise was held in the exercise area. The demonstrators displayed the survival techniques under adverse conditions particularly once operating behind enemy lines. The skill and knowledge of the Pakistani troops was lauded by all.
Pakistan being the fifth largest contingent among participating countries has a team of Special Service Group and Pakistan Navy taking part in this twenty day long exercise. This is considered to be the biggest in the world. Egypt is the biggest participant with 2946 troops while USA has sent 1350 troops from Army, Air Force and Marine to take part in the exercises which are held biennially in Egypt.
Troops of Special Service Group which arrived at Genexlux Air Base on 2nd November are doing integrated exercises involving minor operations and anti terrorism drills in Mubarak Military City. Pakistan Navy&#8217;s Ship Tipu Sultan has arrived on 9th November at Alexandria to join the Coalition Sea Training Integration Phase. Navies of 7 Countries with 8 vessels are participating in these coalition Maritime Operations. Three days are reserved for Integration Training while three days are left for Sea Training. Coalition Exercise also involves Strategic Airborne Jump and Friendship Jump. 165 Jumpers from Army, Air Force and Marines will participate in the Strategic Jump. Almost 400 Jumpers from coalition countries will make the Friendship Jump.

On Wednesday Navigation Exercise was held in the desert. Navigating a distance of around 25-35 kilometers. During day Troops of Special Service Group of Pakistan Army reached their designated places much before the given times thus displaying an excellent standard of physical fitness and navigation skill. Pakistani Contingent also earned laurels during night navigation by covering a distance of 15-20 Kilometer much before the given time.
A spectacular demolition demonstration was held by Pakistan Army Special Service Team in the exercise area near Mubarak Military City as the exercise gears up and moves into the next phase. Before the demonstration a team of officers led by Contingent Commander Lieutenant Colonel Naveed delivered a lecture on Counter Improvised Device, a lethal weapon used by terrorists for various terrorists activities. In a comprehensive lecture the participants of exercise were apprised about threat posed due to Counter IED, precautionary measures and other related aspects to the subject and achievements of Pakistani security forces in War against Terrorism.
A day long senior leader seminar is also scheduled at the end of the exercise.


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## Sam Dhanraj

Blain2,

Have seen SSG guys wearing a distinctive SSG badge featuring a dagger framed by lightening bolts...

But this one caught my attention ... 






....any ideas ?


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## blain2

The lightening bolt and commando dagger one is the standard SSG formation insignia. I believe he has swapped formation badge with another officer from a foreign country. A fairly common thing during multi-national exercises. The formation insignias are either patch on (velcro), or pin/button on.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

What part of the military are they from? The Zarrar folks wear the black coveralls, the remaining SSG were shown wearing the olive T-shirts etc (in the backs of pickups), and they wear the green camo in other pictures.

Just some SSG in plainclothes, or a different unit altogether?


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## blain2

AM,

These guys are also SSG operators from Zarrar Company. Simply doing recce in civvies.


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## JK!

Under the army section here it says that the SSG have access to 230 scorpion vehicles from Turkey.

Do the SSG use any other vehicles like special mission aircraft or upgunned landrovers like the SAS?


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## EagleEyes

The scorpion vehicles are basically baktar bans.. used by rangers, police, and anti-terrorist forces mostly. When it says special forces.. it means that.. Not special service groups. But i also would like to know what types of vehicles they use.


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## blain2

SSG gets the same hardware as the regular army for transport like Defender 90s, heavier trucks etc.

For specialized companies engaged in Desert Warfare specialization, there was some mention of ATVs but I really have not seen anything concrete on it.


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## blain2

Just updated post # 237 with part III of the SSG documentary. I believe its the complete thing now.


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## blain2

Pictures of SSG operators from SOTF (Air Assault):









This one is interesting as you can see the SSG operators with G3A3 which they seldom use:










Old one - Brig Amir Faisal Alvi and troops in FATA:

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## fatman17

blain2 said:


> SSG gets the same hardware as the regular army for transport like Defender 90s, heavier trucks etc.
> 
> For specialized companies engaged in Desert Warfare specialization, there was some mention of ATVs but I really have not seen anything concrete on it.



ATV project is on the back-burner due to lack of govt. funding! the project prototypes have been cleared by the army for induction.

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## Super Falcon

pakistan air force also formed ssg of 1000 soldiers is that true and who is the best

PA SSG
PN SSG
PAF SSG


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## pakomar

SALAM
My question is 
When a civilian recruits in Pakistan rangers can he still apply for SSG?


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## blain2

Super Falcon said:


> pakistan air force also formed ssg of 1000 soldiers is that true and who is the best
> 
> PA SSG
> PN SSG
> PAF SSG



PAF's special ops team is known as the Special Service Wing (SSW). They are the youngest of the three. SSG (A) formed in 1956. SSG (N) formed in the late 60s (I believe 68 or so but could be off a little). The number of years since the raising of these units should also be an indication in terms of which teams have more experience from a training and operations standpoint.


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## blain2

pakomar said:


> SALAM
> My question is
> When a civilian recruits in Pakistan rangers can he still apply for SSG?



Not sure what you mean by still? The SSG training that is provided to the Army cadres is reserved for them. There is no mixing of non-military personnel as such. While Rangers have officers seconded from the Pakistan Army, the Rangers are not part of the Armed Forces (who are under MoD) as such. The Rangers along with Police are under the Ministry of Interior. They have their own commando training school and training but they do not go to Cherat or PNS Iqbal or Kalar kahar for that matter 

The Rangers and others have their own specialized training and they term it "Commando" etc. There is a big difference in the induction and training process at Cherat (SSG/A) and the training that others in Rangers/police go through. The two training streams do not mix as part of a normal routine.


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## pakomar

Thanks for you reply. Some another question of mine is 
Do Pakistan rangers officers come from army or a civilian like me can recruit as officer in Pakistan rangers?
What is the major training difference between army ssg and rangers commandos?


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## RescueRanger

pakomar said:


> Thanks for you reply. Some another question of mine is
> Do Pakistan rangers officers come from army or a civilian like me can recruit as officer in Pakistan rangers?
> What is the major training difference between army ssg and rangers commandos?



No offence but in Pakistan we refer to rangers as Thiger (rubbish) force, stick to the army or if you are into law enforcement wait for the ATTF: Anti Terrorism task Force to be set up and apply for that via provincial police (bharti =recruitment will start soon).

ANF is also a good place to go, but if your hart is stuck in Rangers then yes you can go for officer role. 

Regards

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## Xeric

RescueRanger said:


> No offence but in Pakistan we refer to rangers as Thiger (rubbish) force, stick to the army or if you are into law enforcement wait for the ATTF: Anti Terrorism task Force to be set up and apply for that via provincial police (bharti =recruitment will start soon).
> 
> ANF is also a good place to go, but if your hart is stuck in Rangers then yes you can go for officer role.
> 
> Regards



A bit of a correction here. If RR bro you referring the inspectors and other (i mean the 16 grade and below) as officers then it is OK, because the Officer(17 grade and above) only come from the Army, for both Rangers and FC.

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## blain2

enigma947 said:


> A bit of a correction here. If RR bro you referring the inspectors and other (i mean the 16 grade and below) as officers then it is OK, because the Officer(17 grade and above) only come from the Army, for both Rangers and FC.



Good point Enigma. Not all officers are seconded. Usually the COs and 2ICs are Army officers as well as some NCO/JCO cadres from the Army, the rest are all recruited from the public stream.


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## Xeric

blain2 said:


> Good point Enigma. Not all officers are seconded. Usually the COs and 2ICs are Army officers as well as some NCO/JCO cadres from the Army, the rest are all recruited from the public stream.



In short all the Command and Staff appointment in FC and Rangers are seconded from the Army. Rest are inducted via their own induction process.


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## blain2

pakomar said:


> What is the major training difference between army ssg and ranger&#8217;s commandos?



Humongous difference!

SSG/A trains primarily for special operations against another conventional Army. Their training is mostly around the stay-behind approach or infiltration to carry out intelligence and other special operations in support of the conventional Army units.

There are very many other things that SSG/A and SSG/N are involved in which the civilian counterparts in the Rangers or even the Police have no reason to get trained for. Also the training for SSG in the Army and Navy is almost 2-3 times longer than for the Commando training in Rangers and Police. There are multiple phases of training within the SSG/A and SSG/N due to the various roles they need to be proficient in.

I guess the only comparison that can be drawn between the SSG/A and the other units under Ministry of Interior like the Rangers and Police is the Counter Terrorism piece. SSG/A maintains the foremost capability in the Anti-Terrorism role and that is in the form of a dedicated SSG company. They have the experience, training and equipment suitable for this role.

Because the incidents of terrorism are becoming so common, now there is a need for having this type of CT capability within the provinces as part of either the Police or as RR has mentioned an "Anti terror task force". Maybe the idea is to have fully trained and equipped CT teams available in major areas of the country instead of relying on the SSG to send a team out to various areas from a central location (it is Tarbela but there were talks of moving the team out to Isb). The recent police operation against the militants has shown that they have the training and wherewithal to do this on their own and they should be supported in these efforts because this issue is becoming one of law enforcement and the Police needs to be at the forefront of it.

I think what Pakistan needs is indeed a CT task force which should not be part of the SSG. SSG should keep its focus on unconventional warfare against a conventional opponent. The CT capability within the SSG was established because there was no other pool of qualified and trained personnel. I think now the Police and others have this need and should be trained for such roles as CT is something closer to their profile than for a Special Operations unit of the Army like SSG.

The SSG should be pulled out from VVIP protection task and this role should be given to Police or the AT task force as an example.

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## Xeric

blain2 said:


> The SSG should be pulled out from VVIP protection task and this role should be given to Police or the AT task force as an example.



Agreed in totality. The elite SSG is not there to act as bodyguards.

It is just like asking a Software Engineer to sell second hand PCs.


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## Super Falcon

i think naval ssg are cool of pakistan


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## RescueRanger

enigma947 said:


> A bit of a correction here. If RR bro you referring the inspectors and other (i mean the 16 grade and below) as officers then it is OK, because the Officer(17 grade and above) only come from the Army, for both Rangers and FC.



Well spotted brother.


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## blain2

enigma947 said:


> Agreed in totality. The elite SSG is not there to act as bodyguards.
> 
> It is just like asking a Software Engineer to sell second hand PCs.



We have Zia-ul-Haq to thank for that. Its a pity that even Musharraf carried on with this. Nothing hurts the professional pride of a truly professional soldier more than being asked to stand guard for an individual (this is almost the same as being asked to do fatigue duties). Its a pity that some within the SSG are specifically trained for this role of close protection work. No less than the late founder of the SSG had requested the authorities to relieve the SSG from this absolutely bakvas job and so far nothing of this sort has happened.

It is essentially a status symbol for those in the corridors of power.

While providing CP for the Chief of the Army is absolutely fine, it should not be the job of the SSG to do the same for the President and the PM. It exposes a truly professional force to the workings of the politicians.

This is my single biggest qualm currently on the usage of SSG troops. I feel sorry for the poor chaps.


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## pakomar

RescueRanger said:


> No offence but in Pakistan we refer to rangers as Thiger (rubbish) force, stick to the army or if you are into law enforcement wait for the ATTF: Anti Terrorism task Force to be set up and apply for that via provincial police (bharti =recruitment will start soon).
> 
> ANF is also a good place to go, but if your hart is stuck in Rangers then yes you can go for officer role.
> 
> Regards



I have to be in police or any other force first or I can go straight ATTF: Anti Terrorism task Force.


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## pakomar

enigma947 said:


> A bit of a correction here. If RR bro you referring the inspectors and other (i mean the 16 grade and below) as officers then it is OK, because the Officer(17 grade and above) only come from the Army, for both Rangers and FC.



What is the highest rank as civilian recurrent in rangers and what grade?


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## Xeric

blain2 said:


> We have Zia-ul-Haq to thank for that. Its a pity that even Musharraf carried on with this. Nothing hurts the professional pride of a truly professional soldier more than being asked to stand guard for an individual (this is almost the same as being asked to do fatigue duties). Its a pity that some within the SSG are specifically trained for this role of close protection work. No less than the late founder of the SSG had requested the authorities to relieve the SSG from this absolutely bakvas job and so far nothing of this sort has happened.
> 
> It is essentially a status symbol for those in the corridors of power.
> 
> While providing CP for the Chief of the Army is absolutely fine, it should not be the job of the SSG to do the same for the President and the PM. It exposes a truly professional force to the workings of the politicians.
> 
> This is my single biggest qualm currently on the usage of SSG troops. I feel sorry for the poor chaps.



Well i know someone who was a die hard for SSG but refrained from joininh it just because of the reason under discussion. (though he once came back from Cherat due to an injury but he didn't try again and blamed this bodyguard thing-though might not be actually willing to undergo the rigor again)


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## Xeric

pakomar said:


> What is the highest rank as civilian recurrent in rangers and what grade?



i am not sure yet, but i;ll check it out.

For now you may see this:
http://www.********************/PakParamilitary/PakistanRangers.htm


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## blain2

enigma947 said:


> Well i know someone who was a die hard for SSG but refrained from joininh it just because of the reason under discussion. (though he once came back from Cherat due to an injury but he didn't try again and blamed this bodyguard thing-though might not be actually willing to undergo the rigor again)



You mean this turned him off?
http://www.app.com.pk/photo/photo_lib/04-04-2009/c20448b8c52a4d463d761f893a962e9a.jpg



Do want to mention that not everyone has to do this. There is a specific component within the SSG that focuses on VVIP CP duties. If you are an officer you may get assigned to that team based on your training and previous experience (they run proper training for this role and don't just put anyone in this role). There is extensive background checking also. Also the &#37; of those getting hurt during the selection training is fairly high. 

A friend broke his leg during the selection process and never went back. You really need to want it to go back through the selection process again and again (getting clearance for another try is another issue as you get busy with other stuff in your unit etc.)

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## Patriot

Agreed.Soldiers should not be used as security guard of Politicans.Police should handle the security.FOR COAS i think its fine as he is running the whole Army!


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## blain2

saadahmed said:


> Agreed.Soldiers should not be used as security guard of Politicans.Police should handle the security.FOR COAS i think its fine as he is running the whole Army!



SSG detail around Gen Ahsan Saleem Hayat during IDEAS 2004:






Around 9:32 or so.

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## Xeric

blain2 said:


> You mean this turned him off?
> http://www.app.com.pk/photo/photo_lib/04-04-2009/c20448b8c52a4d463d761f893a962e9a.jpg



Probably Yes! lolzz....

But at that time the main protection duties being undertaken by the SSG was the security of Americans inside Pakistan, especially those working in Wana and surrounding for training the Army in satellite handling etc etc (i m not giving no more details). The new face of terrorism was just coming out of the shell at that time.

So here is what he said: ' i have not joined the Army to bodyguard the Americans'

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## SEAL

^^^
Don't tell him anything he's spy..


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## Keysersoze

They recruit spies from internet fora...........they use specialist techniques to pick people out....

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## Zarbe Momin

Pakistan want to train 80000 soliders to SSG'S or like this. At moment Pakistan Army have 2 Brigades of Special Forces (6 Battalions). It should be increased. In my view Pakistan Army also need Paratroopers. The typical NATO standard brigade consists of approximately 4,000 to 5,000 troops. If Pakistan army trains 3 brigrades of Pakistan army as Paratroopers it would be very useful for future. Paratroopers role is very important, especially when to drop troops in back of enemies defence lines.

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## blain2

Zarbe Momin said:


> Pakistan want to train 80000 soliders to SSG'S or like this. At moment Pakistan Army have 2 Brigades of Special Forces (6 Battalions). It should be increased. In my view Pakistan Army also need Paratroopers. The typical NATO standard brigade consists of approximately 4,000 to 5,000 troops. If Pakistan army trains 3 brigrades of Pakistan army as Paratroopers it would be very useful for future. Paratroopers role is very important, especially when to drop troops in back of enemies defence lines.



Zarb-e-Momin,
SSG is 3 brigades in formation (thus a divisional command) and the entire SSG is para-trained. You do not make it into the SSG if you do not qualify the para training.


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## Zarbe Momin

blain2 said:


> Zarb-e-Momin,
> SSG is 3 brigades in formation (thus a divisional command) and the entire SSG is para-trained. You do not make it into the SSG if you do not qualify the para training.



I know about SSG training. But in my view we need infrantray paratroopers units.


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## blain2

Zarbe Momin said:


> I know about SSG training. But in my view we need infrantray paratroopers units.



Why may I ask? That is the job of the SSG. Why do you want more troops trained on essentially a mode of transportation (I.E. para jumping)?

The British and the Americans had such troops trained in large numbers because there was no other way to transport them besides very large scale para drops. In the case of Pakistan, where would you use these troops? How would you extricate them after the para drops? There are very many lessons to be learned from the past as we have done such things. Infiltration of Special Forces into the other side would yield the greatest benefit. If this had been done in the 1965 war, the SSG troops would have done a lot more damage.

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## PAFAce

blain2 said:


> Why may I ask? That is the job of the SSG. Why do you want more troops trained on essentially a mode of transportation (I.E. para jumping)?
> 
> The British and the Americans had such troops trained in large numbers because there was no other way to transport them besides very large scale para drops. In the case of Pakistan, where would you use these troops? How would you extricate them after the para drops? There are very many lessons to be learned from the past as we have done such things. Infiltration Special Forces into the other side would yield the greatest benefit. If this had been done in the 1965 war, the SSG troops would have done a lot more damage.



Well, I've posted this on another thread, pure airborne light infantry is becoming extinct in the world, and only a few countries, including the US and Russia (like you mentioned) operate entire divisions of paratroopers (ex. US 82nd Airborne Division). Modern airborne divisions are not the same, however, and involve a wide range of aerial capabilities, from attack and transport helicopters to chopper-borne infantry to paratroopers etc. This type of division, I believe, won't be such a bad idea, as it is merely an integration of what the Pakistan Army already has, but on a larger scale.

Also, we should not confuse special operation forces with regular airborne troops. Pakistan needs SSG for special, not conventional, purposes. Saying that the SSG provides all the flexibility an airborne division can provide is not _entirely_ accurate. However, the question is, does Pakistan really _need_ para divisions, and the answer is probably no. The US used/uses para soldiers for drops deep within enemy territory (ex. Normandy), and I can't imagine the Pakistan Army trying to do that anytime soon, either on the Eastern or the Western border.

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## blain2

PAFAce said:


> Also, we should not confuse special operation forces with regular airborne troops. Pakistan needs SSG for special, not conventional, purposes. Saying that the SSG provides all the flexibility an airborne division can provide is not _entirely_ accurate. However, the question is, does Pakistan really _need_ para divisions, and the answer is probably no. The US used/uses para soldiers for drops deep within enemy territory (ex. Normandy), and I can't imagine the Pakistan Army trying to do that anytime soon, either on the Eastern or the Western border.



Yes this is the reason I was questioning the need for more troops trained to be transported into the adversary's flank via air transport.

For what are Pakistan's needs in terms of a para capability, the SSG is sufficient. I really see no role of para missions inside of India in the future as such. Being landlocked, there is enough room for the SSG to be able to conduct operations against the opposing forces without having to rely on grand para missions on the scale of WWII.

Air assault is a capability that is valuable and is needed by the PA and it is something that is getting attention. This is also the reason that the core of PA's air assault capability is built around SSG troops. It is essentially an evolutionary process. In the future PA will have (already does to an extent actually) airborne and air assault capabilities.


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## mughaljee

Battalions, Brigade 

How many troops are in a Battalion, and Brigade ?


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## Zarbe Momin

SSG troops are very well trained. But if we will increase from 3 brigades to more it will cost a lot for us. Just train Infantary Brigades to do this Job. Pakistan can use them on line of controle in case if india start war with Pakistan also keep in mind we also did'nt have mountain division of infantary. Secondly in Cholistan & Thar Desert if inida succeed to penetrate deep in Pakistan then Paratroopers can cut the supply lines etc. In 1965 SSG's were droped to destroy aircrafts on airfield. It was mismanged.

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## blain2

mughaljee said:


> Battalions, Brigade
> 
> How many troops are in a Battalion, and Brigade ?



Depending on which arm, usually Battalions/units are 500-700. In the commonwealth Armies, the brigades are triangular I.e. 3 Bns (at least this is the case in the PA, IA, BA etc.).

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## z9-ec

SSG Training:





GettyImages.

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## blain2

DAWN News documentaries on SSG and Pakistan Army Snipers. Seems like an amazing documentary series (W.A.S):

First one is from Special Operations School - Mun jaanbazum all the way! - 8.2km done and 20 minutes to iftari (a little jog while fasting).






The SSG sniper using Accuracy International L-96: Rinse and repeat!





Last one is for Armour - for lack of an appropriate thread I am posting it here: - Heralding the new year..

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## pak_army

^^^when its gonna be aired any idea??


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## mughaljee

amazing, 
thanks for sharing these clips.


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## Zarbe Momin

Nice....Allah...Allah...Mil kay.....Dil say....Josh say.....Hosh say.....

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## sohailbutt

SSG, some action, training and shooting.

********.com - Pakistan Commandos Training

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## owais.usmani

sohailbutt said:


> SSG, some action, training and shooting.
> 
> ********.com - Pakistan Commandos Training



It says Error: Video file not found.


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## sohailbutt

MR. if it ain't working then use you're brain, and try clicking on the heading instead


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## iioal malik

nice video thanks for sharing


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## Zulfiqar

The first few seconds in sohail butt's video show Police SWAT being trained.They are not SSG.


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## owais.usmani

sohailbutt said:


> MR. if it ain't working then use you're brain, and try clicking on the heading instead



Sir I just mentioned a simple problem that I faced; no need to be rude.


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## sohailbutt

owais.usmani said:


> Sir I just mentioned a simple problem that I faced; no need to be rude.



I was not rude, it depends how you take some one's post, in you're case it is quite obvious that you felt I was rude, where as I wasn't.

Hope you get over it quickly.

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## owais.usmani

sohailbutt said:


> I was not rude, it depends how you take some one's post, in you're case it is quite obvious that you felt I was rude, where as I wasn't.
> 
> Hope you get over it quickly.



I think we both need to get over it now and be friends.

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## Xeric

pak_army said:


> ^^^when its gonna be aired any idea??





blain2 said:


> DAWN News documentaries on SSG and Pakistan Army Snipers. Seems like an amazing documentary series (W.A.S):
> 
> First one is from Special Operations School - Mun jaanbazum all the way! - 8.2km done and 20 minutes to iftari (a little jog while fasting).
> 
> gSAsnGNY41s[/media] - W.A.S. Teaser - Infantry
> 
> The SSG sniper using Accuracy International L-96: Rinse and repeat!
> 2KbQTu0-AeI[/media] - W.A.S. Teaser - Sniper
> 
> Last one is for Armour - for lack of an appropriate thread I am posting it here: - Heralding the new year..
> 
> [url="
> 
> 
> 
> - W.A.S. Teaser - Tank[/url]


Blaini can you please find the me the links to these full documentary?

i was (always) away somewhere deep when the documentary (the SSG one) was aired.


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## brilTek

enigma947 said:


> Blaini can you please find the me the links to these full documentary?
> 
> i was (always) away somewhere deep when the documentary (the SSG one) was aired.



W.A.S. is yet to aired. Begins from 31st May.....fingers crossed.


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## Xeric

brilTek said:


> W.A.S. is yet to aired. Begins from 31st May.....fingers crossed.



Well thnx, but i think the SSG part was shown or may be it was a longer trailer..

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## blain2

Sir,

As far as I know, the full footage has not been aired as of yet. This one is the series promo short:

We Are Soldiers - Promo





Dawn's Wajahat S Khan lets lose a RPG-7 at the very end. It would be good to see him host. Speaks well and makes it all the more interesting.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Amazing improvements in the quality of the material being put out now compared to pre-Musharraf - editing, effects, camerawork ..

Bash the dictator all you want, but he was instrumental in allowing the fourth pillar of the State to establish itself and assert independence and autonomy. Prior to the electronic media boom, the newspapers and magazines were always under the yoke of the Government of the time since a large part of the print revenues were generated from Government advertising.

Annoy a sitting politician, and expect the financial squeeze to begin. With all major news groups now sporting successful subsidiaries in the electronic media, independence of the press really means something - and the qualitiative improvements are obvious!

He achieved that which the PPP and PML had only paid lip service to, so caught up in stifling dissent were they.

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## blain2

This will be a great series...

We are soldiers - Promo 2

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## blain2

Airtime information:

Inside the mind and matter of the military... Promo for the upcoming DawnNews program featuring Wajahat S Khan.*
Airing for the first time at 7:05 pm PST on Sunday 31st May, 2009.*


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## anathema

blain2 said:


> This will be a great series...
> 
> We are soldiers - Promo 2



The production values look superb ....


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## vegio

Someone have the image of the blue symbol which is on the red basque of SSG.
Thanks


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## blain2

vegio said:


> Someone have the image of the blue symbol which is on the red basque of SSG.
> Thanks

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## brilTek

blain2 said:


> Airtime information:
> 
> Inside the mind and matter of the military... Promo for the upcoming DawnNews program featuring Wajahat S Khan.*
> Airing for the first time at 7:05 pm PST on Sunday 31st May, 2009.*



*Its Saturday*

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## blain2

Polish Defence delegation at HQ SOTF, Tarbela:
..:: Ministerstwo Obrony Narodowej - serwis internetowy :: Galeria ::..


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## Zulfiqar

Images from Blain's post


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## Zulfiqar

I like the doll picture.

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## django

we need to upgrade from the type-81, its a little bit to antiquated otherwise cool pics


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## PakShaheen79

Great Great Threat... I am posting wallpaper which i made in as a tribute to SSG here we go



[/IMG]
plz rate it and comment. Thanks

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## Zulfiqar

The only problem with your wallpaper is that there are some ranger paramilitary commandos in there.The one in chocolate chip 6 color desert camo standing and those that are running on the right side of the picture.SSG stands for special service group not special services group.

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## MadDog

Hi...guys the SSG ppl...and even the recent pics of common
soldiers show tht they are wearing different bullet proof vests...
is pak making em themselves


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## Slides

django said:


> we need to upgrade from the type-81, its a little bit to antiquated otherwise cool pics


The SSG like their AK variants. If they didn't, they wouldn't be busy putting add-ons on all of them.


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## Zulfiqar

> Hi...guys the SSG ppl...and even the recent pics of common
> soldiers show tht they are wearing different bullet proof vests...
> is pak making em themselves



If you are talking about interceptor vests then they are most probably imported/given as part of US aid.



> The SSG like their AK variants. If they didn't, they wouldn't be busy putting add-ons on all of them.



Yes, even in the third picture that i posted you can see the AK has EOTech holographic sight.


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## mughaljee

very nice images


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## PakShaheen79

Mian Asad said:


> The only problem with your wallpaper is that there are some ranger paramilitary commandos in there.The one in chocolate chip 6 color desert camo standing and those that are running on the right side of the picture.SSG stands for special service group not special services group.



SSG Stands for Special Services Group. It is not me it is Pakistan Army who says so...

check

Secondly... Rangers ATFs are also got trained by Zarrar company of SSG. Again it is Pakistan Army saying so

check


> Rangers Anti Terrorist Company has been raised since early 2004. They have been trained by Zarrar Company of Special Services Group (SSG) and his performance was largely appreciated by all. This company has also participated in recently conducted exercise with UK Special Air Services troops in Karachi.
> Rangers Anti Terrorist Force


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## Slides

PakShaheen79 said:


> SSG Stands for Special Services Group. It is not me it is Pakistan Army who says so...
> 
> check
> 
> Secondly... Rangers ATFs are also got trained by Zarrar company of SSG. Again it is Pakistan Army saying so
> 
> check



Rangers are still paramiltiary, even if the SSG trained them. SSG also trained police elite force, but does not eman they are SSG.

And the correct name is indeed Special Service Group, but it is common practice, even in the army to write it incorrectly as Services.


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## PakShaheen79

Slides said:


> And the correct name is indeed Special Service Group, but it is common practice, even in the army to write it incorrectly as Services.



Rangers are also part of armed forces. 

And please ask Pakistan Army to correct it... I swear i will correct it as well. Peace


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## Zulfiqar

> SSG Stands for Special Services Group. It is not me it is Pakistan Army who says so...



It is Special Service Group.Ask Blain.His Father was in SSG.



> Rangers are also part of armed forces.



FYI they come under ministry of interior and they are a paramilitary force.Majors and above are sent on deputation to rangers.


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## PakShaheen79

> FYI they come under ministry of interior and they are a paramilitary force.Majors and above are sent on deputation to rangers.



Still they are part of armed forces... and your information about Majors and higher rank officers also endorse the idea that they have link to armed forces. Anyhow if you please with your view I also have no problem with that. 


> It is Special Service Group.Ask Blain.His Father was in SSG.



I think official Paksitan Army is equally responsible reference as some ex-SSG.


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## Xeric

Slides said:


> Rangers are still paramiltiary, even if the SSG trained them. SSG also trained police elite force, but does not eman they are SSG.
> 
> And the correct name is indeed Special Service Group, but it is common practice, even in the army to write it incorrectly as Services.





PakShaheen79 said:


> SSG Stands for Special Services Group. It is not me it is Pakistan Army who says so...
> 
> check
> 
> Secondly... Rangers ATFs are also got trained by Zarrar company of SSG. Again it is Pakistan Army saying so
> 
> check



It's Special Service Group. But normally it is written with an 'S' (mistakenly).

As for the SSG training the ASF also gets training from SSG, but that doesnt make part of the Army, but yes they sure are brother in Arms.

i hope you understand.

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## PakShaheen79

xeric said:


> It's Special Service Group. But normally it is written with an 'S' (mistakenly).
> 
> As for the SSG training the ASF also gets training from SSG, but that doesnt make part of the Army, but yes they sure are brother in Arms.
> 
> i hope you understand.



Well i think it was originally Service only but over the period of time converted to services due to various roles of SSG in armies around the planet. But that is just my own observation, because i honestly never read service in this context it is always services in writing be it Pakistan Army or some other.

And you got me dead right on Rangers and ASF issue. (which is no issue BTW)


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## Xeric

PakShaheen79 said:


> Well i think it was originally Service only but over the period of time converted to services due to various roles of SSG in armies around the planet. But that is just my own observation, because i honestly never read service in this context it is always services in writing be it Pakistan Army or some other.
> 
> And you got me dead right on Rangers and ASF issue. (which is no issue BTW)



ASC (Army Service Corps) also received a similar treatment. And i remember an Officer getting shunted by another ASC Officer for saying Army Service*S* Corps


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## PakShaheen79

hahahaha
Now seriously... I am thinking about to right webmaster of ISPR and Army web portals to change it to service.


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## Zulfiqar

> Now seriously... I am thinking about to right webmaster of ISPR and Army web portals to change it to service.



Don't bother,i tried a few months ago. They said that they will look into it.


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## Slides

Mian Asad said:


> Don't bother,i tried a few months ago. They said that they will look into it.



LOL, the matter has been forwarded to GHQ for further examination.


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## armyoptimist

Sid said:


> They look rough and tough; but their performance has not been that outstanding as you would expect from an 'Elite' unit.
> 
> Ofcourse they've had successes (they are expected to carry out the more dangerous missions which is why they are 'elite') but it is the failures that troubles me.
> 
> During previous wars with India, quite a few missions failed and I just hope they've learned from their mistakes.
> 
> Cheers.



You are wrong. They are good at all. You are talking about Pakistan indo war? then here is the answer Pakistan army is too less in number as compared to Indians. Pakistan has also less tech. But Pakistan won the battle of 1965 and cargle war and lost 1971 war. Now tell me what further we can demand? They are trying their best and I know they will do better, Insallah.


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## Aeri-Eye

Hi guys, just want to ask you a quick question. How many SSG commandos does pak have? I mean in numbers? 
Thanks


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## kidwaibhai

the exact number i think it classified.


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## Aeri-Eye

Any guess?


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## TaimiKhan

Aeri-Eye said:


> Any guess?



In my opinion the final figure if a Division is raised to full strength would be between 6000 to 7000 approx personnel. 

I hope a more experienced person will give a more precise figure.


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## Zulfiqar

Reconstruction of Capt Bilal Zafar's battle in swat.

Although this is short and does not cover the battle in detail but still it is a treat to watch. The role of Capt Bilal Zafar is played by his brother Capt Zarrar Zafar (also in SSG).All the characters are real including the GOC SSG.

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## Aeri-Eye

^^ Thanks Asad yaar, great video....tears came in my eyes while watching it. May Allah bless his soul. He died for this nation and will never be forgotten.

I wish i was in Pak Army......but unlike him i wasnt lucky enough 

PAKISTAN & PAK ARMY ZINDABAD. We will give our lives but will not give up Pakistan. Salute to the fallen heroes.

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## Xeric

EVEN GUUD GUYS DO BAD THINGS-i love the SSG T-Shirt.

Bilal, Jawad and Zia, you have scarified your today for our tomorrow!!

We owe you, my dear comrades we all owe you!


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## batmannow

once again pakarmy has proven , a deadly force to those , who think & tried to harm pakistan!
*SHAHEED Capt Bilal Zafar* , sir ! you will be remembered , till the end of this world at *least in my heart*, till *my last breath!:*

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## Zulfiqar

From 0:21 onwards the officers and troops are from Army aviation.

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## blain2

A translation of the SSG operations in Peochar by the folks (Usman S. & ssaad) over at Pakdef:

*"Operation Peochar"*
by Sipahi Hafiz Mohammed Khan

Upon returning from Buner, our battalion (affectionately known as the &#8220;Pawindaz&#8221 was beckoned by the land of Swat. In Swat, the village of Peochar held a very significant value because in the past few years it had been organized and turned into a strong defensive position by the miscreants. GOC SSG (Maj Gen Haroon Aslam) tasked our Commanding Officer, Lt Col Irfan Zafar (TB), with this operation. On the evening of 15th May 2009, force composition for the mission was decided upon. It included one team from Ibrahim Company commanded by Capt Bilal Zafar while the second one was led by Naib Subedar Sabir. One team from Hamza company was commanded by Naib Subedar Daud, in addition two teams from Zakria company were to be led by Capt Tufail Butt and Naib Subedar Arif respectively. The entire force consisted of about 50 operators and was under the overall command of Major Sardar.

At 0400 PST on the morning of 16th May, as this lead team was leaving for the mission, a quiet resolve was evident on the faces of my highly motivated comrades. Upon landing in the area, we immediately took fire from terrorists who were hiding there. We disembarked from the helis as quickly as possible, took positions and returned fire. Upon effective SSG counter-fire, the heavy weapons of the miscreants were silenced however their snipers remained active. The welcome that we received was exactly as per the expected tradition! By dusk we were able to consolidate our positions. In the meantime, GOC SSG also arrived and motivated the troops of the Pawinda battalion stating &#8220;I hope that you keep in mind the pride and hopes with which we the SSG have been asked to accomplish this task, so you must ensure that you make the Country, Pak Army and the SSG proud&#8221;.

The target was in front of us. Enemy snipers were in their positions and ready for the expected attack. We were briefed by the Staff Officer, Maj Asif regarding the terrain and enemy positions. At night, under the command of Maj Sardar, 50 operators started closing in on enemy positions for a decisive mission. Being mountainous terrain, the path to the enemy positions, if one could even call it a path, was full of natural obstacles. After an eight hour journey, the force reached the target at approximately 0500 in the morning. As dawn broke, sipahi Rafaqat was the first one to set foot on Ghazanosar. Maj Sardar deployed the force and ordered Capt Bilal to secure one of the higher peaks. As Capt Bilal started advancing toward the peak with his team, the enemy opened up fire yet captain Bilal, while keeping his officer commanding updated with the situation, kept advancing. He was determined to capture this peak. The team was still some distance from the target when a RPG round hit Capt Bilal and this brave son of the nation attained martyrdom. After Capt Bilal fell, Capt Zafeel Butt took over and secured the peak. Soldiers Mohammed Maroof and Majid sustained injuries during this assault and the exchange of fire carried on throughout the day. Despite being hungry and tired, the whole unit remained in high spirits and the level of motivation was as such that every operator was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice if needed. Naik Sher Nawaz and sipahi Zulfiqar, crawling and taking advantage of the terrain, approached the enemy bunkers and lobbed grenades causing heavy casualties to the miscreants.

A message from GOC, ordering us to capture the last remaining peak in Ghazanosar before dusk, really lifted our spirits. Maj Sardar planned the operation and heavy artillery fire was called upon from the fire base being commanded by Capt Aamir. The miscreants withdrew in the face of heavy artillery fire. There were approximately 70-80 miscreants on this peak and as soon as Capt Tufail Butt&#8217;s team approached the valley, the terrorists opened fire. Charged up by the recent martyrdom of Capt Bilal, the team pressed on with its attack. One round in the chest felled sipahi Zulfiqar and shortly thereafter sipahi Amjad Iqbal and Lance Naik Gulzar were also injured. The terrorists could not withstand the fierce assault and withdrew. The victorious force offered late night prayers on the Ghazanosar peak and successfully came up to the expectations of the nation.

As difficult as it had been to occupy the peak, retaining it proved to be just as difficult since the area was rather large and there were only a few troops available. However for highly motivated troops this did not remain an obstacle. At the slope of this peak, there is a village by the name of Talkar. As there is a gradual slope from the peak toward this village, it was felt that if there was to be a counter attack, it would have come from this direction and since we had received additional manpower, two teams commanded by Maj Azeem and Naib Subedar Daud were positioned on the side of the peak facing the village. Their task was to monitor any movement from the village side and repulse any attacks. Thus began the game of endurance as it was cold, with almost daily rain and sometimes even snow. There was only one stream of water which happened to be very close to the Peochar town. Only once a day a team used to go to fetch water and this water was used for the rest of the day. We received orders to carry out a search operation in Peochar. On the first day, under the command of commandant - Special Operations School, Col Sajid, the Talkar village was searched. In this operation two teams from Yaldrum battalion also participated. &#8220;Pawandaz&#8221; were being commanded by Maj Azeem and with him were Capt Tufail and Naib Suberdar Daud with their teams. After two days the search operation in Peochar was launched and on the first day we discovered large number of heavy weapons, explosives, suicide vests and a chemical laboratory which was set on fire. During the next phase, tunnels dug by terrorists and their houses were blown up. A cave in which enemy was present was also blown up by Naib Subedar Daud. These actions were carried out by the teams of Naik Subedar Rafiq, Naik Subedar Arif and Naib Subedar Daud under the overall command of Maj Sardar.

To the north of Ghazanosar is a very high peak designated 2529 and the enemy was spotted there roaming freely. We used to hear artillery fire engaging them from the guns of 19 Division with which we were to linkup. In the meantime Operation Commander Col Sajid and Lt Col Irfan Zaffar (TB) also returned to the theater. We received orders from the Div HQ to secure peak 2529. Major Sardar carried out the operational planning and it was decided that teams led by Capt Tufail Butt, Naib Subedar Arif, and Naib Subedar Daud would act as pathfinders. We started advancing at 2100 and after a very tough mountainous trek, reached and secured peak 2529 around 0500 in the morning. Around afternoon time, the enemy raided our position to collect bodies of their comrades but the attack was successfully repulsed. Three soldiers, Lance Naik Niaz Saqi, sipahi Mohammed Imtiaz and sipahi Asrar Ahmed received injuries. In the wake of their escape, the enemy left behind ammunition and other equipment. In front of peak 2529 was Shalkosar peak which was a terrorist strong point where they had employed high caliber weapons including 14.5mm and 12.7mm machine guns. Since the enemy had occupied this peak for a while, they had been able to dig tunnels and build strong bunkers as part of their defensive positions. For as long as this peak remained in the hands of the enemy, our linkup with the rest of the force would have been impossible.

Lt Col Irfan Zaffar (TB) ordered the force to advance under the command of Maj Sardar. During the night, three teams led by Capt Tufail Butt, Naib Subedar Arif and Naib Subedar Daud were to act as pathfinders. Along the route, on both sides, there were enemy supply depots and accommodations which had to be eliminated. This task was carried out by Capt Arif&#8217;s team and they neutralized these terrorist hideouts and structures. Around 0300 in the morning we were also able to secure the Shalkosar peak. The enemy had fled in disarray leaving behind a large cache of weapons, food/water and even their beds!

Thus concluded the mission tasked to the &#8220;Pawindaz&#8221; by GOC SSG. The mission was accomplished successfully due to prayers of our countrymen and the kindness of God Almighty.

On the orders of Maj Sardar, Havildar Khan raised the Pakistan flag on Shalkosar peak and with that the entire Peochar valley started reverberating with the ring of &#8220;Pakistan Zindabad!&#8221; (Long Live Pakistan).

The next day Maj Sardar, along with Naik Subedar Arif&#8217;s team, linked up with a Punjab Regiment battalion. This successfully concluded our mission.

Tranlsation of this Urdu article:
http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPR...)/urd&st_pic_no=30&en_pic_no=31&cur_pic_no=30

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## Xeric

Somebody was talking about the lack of participation by the JCOs/NCOs from the Army?


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## Xeric

A classic piece of text that shows the mentality, motivation, dedication and professionalism of our soldiers. The SSG is our pride and it has proven it one more time.

The story testifies the bravery, courage and professionalism of our young Officers and Men and of those who plan these operations!

We salute our SSG for securing victory at every phase of the operation and making the Army and the Country proud.

Thankyou Hafiz Mohammed Khan for sharing this tale of bravery with us. You are our true hero!

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## blain2

Aeri-Eye said:


> Hi guys, just want to ask you a quick question. How many SSG commandos does pak have? I mean in numbers?
> Thanks



We used to have a brigade. That gives you somewhere in between 2100-3000. Currently SSG is undergoing a major upgrade and I believe after all is said and done, we would be looking at numbers close to the 9000 range inshallah.


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## MadDog

Hi...i just wanted to ask the question that the new bullet proof vests which SSG is being issued as shown in the pictures in the previous pages is just like those used by US....are the being given in aid...or is pakistan producing them themselves cuz they are different from those vests which PA used to have


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## mughaljee

Brothers, 
Just for information , which is the toughest part (or Parts) of the SSG Training ?
How long the training schedule ? When they choose a man for SSG Training , what they want i mean what trainers check in the men first ? etc

always regards


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## Arsalan

well hte training itself is i guess the toughest part,, well i mean to say that we can not figure out whta is difficult and what is not! SSG, the specials services group is an elite branch of army and it take a hell of toughness to pass through this training course!!

regards!


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## Abu Zolfiqar

thanks for sharing 

and I would also like to use the thread to wish blessings on the soul of Maj. Gen. Faisal Alavi saab -- a real patriot, a nationalist, and a soldier of Pakistan.

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## PakShaheen79

mughaljee said:


> Brothers,
> Just for information , which is the toughest part (or Parts) of the SSG Training ?
> How long the training schedule ? When they choose a man for SSG Training , what they want i mean what trainers check in the men first ? etc
> 
> always regards


*
Special Operations School*
The Special Services Group of Pakistan Army was raised in 1956 with Lt. Col. Abubakar Osman Mitha as its first Commanding Officer. The Special Services Group like Special Forces all over the world has been assigned multifarious tasks. It undertakes parachute commando operations, guerilla warfare operations, anti terrorist and frogmen operations. A lot of emphasis is laid on a very high standard of training to produce a soldier of the highest calibre who easily fits into the rigours of life in the Special Services Group.
Special Operations School is located in Cherat which is called the home of Special Services Group. Cherat is located in the crest of Khattak Range at approx 4500 ft above sea level in North West Frontier Province (NWFP) of Pakistan. It is 52 Kilometres from Peshawar and 54 kilometres from Nowshera. The road from Cherat bifurcates from Pabbi Railway Station on Grand Truck Road. Timewise it is approx 45 minutes drive from Pabbi Railway Station. The climate in Cherat is very pleasant in summers and cold in winters. Strong winds are a constant feature.
*The Faculty*

The school has a dedicated faculty and staff for each category of the course. Break down of the faculty is as follows:

* Advance Training Wing

* Basic Training Wing

* Special Training and Publication Wing

* Research, Trials and Publication Wing

* Administrative Support Wing 
*
The Courses*


Officers Advance Commando Course
Basic Commando Course (Officers and Other Ranks)
Anti Terrorist Course
Sniper Course
Security Course (Officers and Other Ranks)
Advance Frogmen Course (Officers and Other Ranks)
Professional Unarmed Combat Course (Martial Arts) (Officers and Other Ranks)

Selection Criteria
* Other Ranks) 

Selection Criteria

Commando Course


* Should be a volunteer
 * Medical Category TV
 * Maximum service 5 Years
 * Should be less than 25 years of age.
 * Physical Standards

 Chin ups - 8
 Sit ups - 30 in one minute
 Push up - 30 in one minute
 1 Mile run - 7.30 minutes


*Anti Terrorist, Security and Sniper Course*


Should be a marksman in pistol and rifle firing
 Medical Category 'A'
 Physical standards same as for commando course

*Frogman Course*


Medical Category 'A'
Should qualify chamber test upto 180 ft sea water.
Physical standards as above.
 * * Swimming Standards*
o Should be able to swim 200 meters in 7 minutes (breast stroke)
o Should be able to swim 25 meters Underwater
o Should be able to swim 30 meters in full uniform with weapon 

*Professional Unarmed Combat Course*

Physical standards as mentioned in the frogmen course 
*Campus*
The School campus in Cherat comprises an administration block, two training blocks and two residential blocks for trainee officers and men. The campus is situated within Cherat Cantonment and no separate boundary exists. There is also a cinema hall and canteen. These blocks and facilities are within walking distance.
*Training Facilities*

* Model Rooms

 * Class Rooms

 * Survival Range

* Explosive Range

 * Firing Range

 * Assault Courses

* Cinema Hall

 * Mountain Craft Training sites

 * Frogmen Training sites

 * Fighting in Built Up Area Range

 * Killing Houses for Anti Terrorist Training

 * Close Quarter Battle Firing Range
*Conclusion*
The standards maintained in various courses are very high which results into major dropouts at various stages of the course. The standards are kept high to ensure suitable intake into the Special Services Group.

Pakistan Army

Hope this will help brother.

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## mughaljee

PakShaheen79
Mannnnnny Thanks,


----------



## Aamirkhan(ssg)



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## Aamirkhan(ssg)



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## Aamirkhan(ssg)




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## Aamirkhan(ssg)




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## Aamirkhan(ssg)




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## Aamirkhan(ssg)




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## Aamirkhan(ssg)

SSG is world ranks in 3rd no its best commondos of all over the world and we proud on ssg and pakistan


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## pakomar

Should be less than 25 years of age for ssg.
is this true i thought you can apply at any age.


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## blain2

pakomar said:


> Should be less than 25 years of age for ssg.
> is this true i thought you can apply at any age.



Its possible that there is an age ceiling for other ranks. By the time most jawans turn 25, they have been in service for a good 5-7 years. Usually you need 2 years of service before you can join the SSG. So 25 is a fairly decent age limit.


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## pakomar

blain2 said:


> Its possible that there is an age ceiling for other ranks. By the time most jawans turn 25, they have been in service for a good 5-7 years. Usually you need 2 years of service before you can join the SSG. So 25 is a fairly decent age limit.



so the age limit "25 " only for jawans.


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## lindsyebanks

Aamirkhan(ssg) said:


>



Readers may like to know the above pic is of SSGN.


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## lindsyebanks

Slides said:


> LOL, the matter has been forwarded to GHQ for further examination.



I reported some errors on PN (old) website to PN, but nothing was done. I then contacted the office of CNS and things moved very quickly. I would have assumed that given the resources of the individuals on this forum, a direct approach to a higher authority would have been made from the outset. That is the only way to go.


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## pakomar

do Pakistan ssg have their own training program or they follow westerns or Russians training technique ??????


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## Super Falcon

nice uniform toooo coooooollllllllllllllllllllllllll


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## MZUBAIR

pakomar said:


> do Pakistan ssg have their own training program or they follow westerns or Russians training technique ??????



SSG hav their own training programs, which is of very high standard. 
There are mutual training programs with other nationfs......SSG not only get trainings from other nations but also offer training services to other nations.

Desi Shock Videos - 0 - http://videos.desishock.net


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## pakomar

MZUBAIR said:


> SSG hav their own training programs, which is of very high standard.
> There are mutual training programs with other nationfs......SSG not only get trainings from other nations but also offer training services to other nations.
> 
> Desi Shock Videos - 0 - http://videos.desishock.net



it is said by many that Russian are better trained and better skilled than westerns , westerns relay on modern equipment and tight formations where as russian spetsnaz soldiers can operate alone. Russian spetsnaz training is so hard that they kill 2 to 3 hundred during training. 

Pakistan SSG have their own training programs but where SSG training program fits in or close to westerns or Russian???????????


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## mughaljee

pakomar said:


> it is said by many that Russian are better trained and better skilled than westerns


totally agree.
they are among the best.


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## pakomar

pakomar said:


> it is said by many that Russian are better trained and better skilled than westerns , westerns relay on modern equipment and tight formations where as russian spetsnaz soldiers can operate alone. Russian spetsnaz training is so hard that they kill 2 to 3 hundred during training.
> 
> Pakistan SSG have their own training programs but where SSG training program fits in or close to westerns or Russian???????????



still waiting for answer


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## Kompromat



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## Mercenary

pakomar said:


> still waiting for answer



The training doctrine of US is very different from Europe or Russia.

USA stresses the buddy system in which 2 soldiers operate simultaneously with each other. As such their training doctrine is geared heavily towards team work.

This makes US Special Forces school such as Navy Seals very tough to get through due to have one weak person on the team.

Russian and British Special Forces are about a lone person operating. And thus its a little easier to pass.

Most countries prefer the American buddy system of training. The British SAS were usually involved in deep cover infiltration especially in Northern Ireland.

Later on USA did create a new Anti-Terrorist Force called the US Delta Force which was totally modeled on the British SAS after the botched attempt by the American Green Berets to rescue the hostages in Iran.

Pakistan has incorporated the buddy system in their special forces training with British SAS giving the anti-terrorist training.

Overall, in war, the American Special Forces are probably the best.

Domestic Terrorism, the British SAS and Russian Sptenaz and Alfa Troops are probably the best.

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## ahmed_naj

> Later on USA did create a new Anti-Terrorist Force called the US Delta Force which was totally modeled on the British SAS after the botched attempt by the American Green Berets to rescue the hostages in Iran.



Sir, Delta Force (SFOD-D) was formed before the hostage crises, they were actually part of the task force that was going to carry out the operation.


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## haji.muhammad

Black blood said:


> vy3vSEivsbo[/media] - Pakistan ARMY The elite SSG commando force of Pakistan the power of islam by ch.s.imran





Amazing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I particularly like rolling in Black dress, amazing and wonderful.


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## Windjammer

Thanks for sharing "B B", A Professional display by an elite unit.

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## pakomar

Mercenary said:


> The training doctrine of US is very different from Europe or Russia.
> 
> USA stresses the buddy system in which 2 soldiers operate simultaneously with each other. As such their training doctrine is geared heavily towards team work.
> 
> This makes US Special Forces school such as Navy Seals very tough to get through due to have one weak person on the team.
> 
> Russian and British Special Forces are about a lone person operating. And thus its a little easier to pass.
> 
> Most countries prefer the American buddy system of training. The British SAS were usually involved in deep cover infiltration especially in Northern Ireland.
> 
> Later on USA did create a new Anti-Terrorist Force called the US Delta Force which was totally modeled on the British SAS after the botched attempt by the American Green Berets to rescue the hostages in Iran.
> 
> Pakistan has incorporated the buddy system in their special forces training with British SAS giving the anti-terrorist training.
> 
> Overall, in war, the American Special Forces are probably the best.
> 
> Domestic Terrorism, the British SAS and Russian Sptenaz and Alfa Troops are probably the best.


thank you sir for clearing that up

american special forces relay on modern equipment and steal formation and they are link with command center all the time but in case of Pakistan we do n t have modern technology ??? correct me if i am wrong....do our commandos have the same technology capabilities as american behind enemy lines.


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## Mercenary

pakomar said:


> thank you sir for clearing that up
> 
> american special forces relay on modern equipment and steal formation and they are link with command center all the time but in case of Pakistan we do n t have modern technology ??? correct me if i am wrong....do our commandos have the same technology capabilities as american behind enemy lines.



In terms of communication systems, fiber optic cameras, our technology is probably 10 years behind the Americans. In terms of Weapons, we are probably up to par.

But we don't need such sophisticated equipment to conduct warfare.

America is a superpower and conducts operations throughout the globe such as the Navy Seals killing those Somali Pirates in the Indian Ocean.

Our operations are conducted near or on our home soil and thus we can operate as efficiently as the Americans without such sophisticated equipment such as SSG operating in Swat or the Lal Masjid Siege.

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## blain2

pakomar said:


> thank you sir for clearing that up
> 
> american special forces relay on modern equipment and steal formation and they are link with command center all the time but in case of Pakistan we do n t have modern technology ??? correct me if i am wrong....do our commandos have the same technology capabilities as american behind enemy lines.



There is always radio communications with the higher HQ. This has gone on for many decades. Even in 65 war this was the case. The difference now is that the gear in use is much smaller. They use manpacks for communications between SSG teams in the field and company/bn hq. Within the teams in the field, they use smaller tactical radios. The difference is the technology available to the American FACs and observers and what is available to us. The Americans have switched over to satellite linkages and digital grids on hand-held systems whereas in Pakistan this technology is not pervasive and most of the communication is conducted with UHF/VHF radios. Some of the newer radios acquired have the ability to communicate directly with assets in the air making the job of observers with infantry etc. easier.

The technology to equip the SF is usually the most expensive of any given to the foot soldiers. As such its a long and slow process of induction.


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## mughaljee

Wonderful.


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## Kompromat

Windjammer said:


> Thanks for sharing "B B", A Professional display by an elite unit.



I liked my PDF Nickname


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## Kompromat

Here go my Boys.. love em!


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## Kompromat

Look @ his smile..



---------- Post added at 02:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:49 PM ----------

Maybe GHQ operation

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## Kompromat




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## Kompromat




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## Kompromat

View attachment db17562aadb1a7b2a01a4c6ed7b55b76.jpg


---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------

SSG-N






---------- Post added at 02:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

*COAS with Commandos and a Sniper*



---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 PM ----------

Watch out for these ones!!!






---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 PM ----------







---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ----------

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## Kompromat

---------- Post added at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------


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## Kompromat




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## Kompromat

Navy seal

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## Kompromat




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## Kompromat

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:10 PM ----------

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## Kompromat




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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat




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## Kompromat

View attachment f7fdee0a68ec1a042cb9489194b591b5.jpg

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## Kompromat




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## Kompromat

Pak and US special forces


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## Kompromat

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 PM ----------


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## Kompromat




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## Kompromat

---------- Post added at 03:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:32 PM ----------



---------- Post added at 03:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------



---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

*We are all the same Buddy*

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## Kompromat

Thats so sweeeeet

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## Kompromat

off the topic but could'nt resist posting this


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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat

*Lets play Buddy Buddy*



---------- Post added at 03:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:40 PM ----------

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## Kompromat

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

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## Kompromat

Oye saray pechay hat jaoo....

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## Kompromat




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## Kompromat




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## Kompromat

---------- Post added at 03:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 PM ----------

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## Kompromat



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## TaimiKhan

Black blood said:


> Pak and US special forces



BB, sorry to be saying this, but these are US and Afghan special forces working somewhere in Afghanistan, note the green cap of the Afghan Army personnel behind the US forces guy.

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## PakShaheen79

SSG in Waziristan. Don't know if they are already posted here before...

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## PakShaheen79

Love this pic....

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## mughaljee

I love these pics, 
thanks all of those who posted.


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## Kompromat

taimikhan said:


> BB, sorry to be saying this, but these are US and Afghan special forces working somewhere in Afghanistan, note the green cap of the Afghan Army personnel behind the US forces guy.



Thanks for pointing out my mistake , this is what i expect from my seniors


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## pakomar

dose desert camo boots of ssg highlight them in battle field??????????
boots do not matches with camouflage of ssg uniform.


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## ahmed_naj

Actually, the desert boots work better for camo. The black leather ones shine too much.


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## TaimiKhan

pakomar said:


> dose desert camo boots of ssg highlight them in battle field??????????
> boots do not matches with camouflage of ssg uniform.



These desert camo boots are more suited with the new camo uniform of PA, if you see someone wearing these shoes with the new camo uniform you will see how well they go with them, but they don't match with the woodland camo of SSG. 

I believe they are using it more for style with woodland rather for operational requirements. 

And the black shine in other leather boots can be taken off, plus in the field the dust and mud makes the shine go away, so the shine is not an excuse for wearing the desert camo. 

The desert camo shoes were started to be worn by the SSG guys after the new PA uniform camo came into service, before that in old pics you won't be seeing desert camo shoes being worn by SSG guys.

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## Creder

what the hell is the use of this "SSG" if our masjids keep getting bombed....who the hell cares how good they are if they cant even protect innocent kids from dying


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## kidwaibhai

Creder said:


> what the hell is the use of this "SSG" if our masjids keep getting bombed....who the hell cares how good they are if they cant even protect innocent kids from dying



what the hell do the SSG have to do with preventing attacks by lunatics. there task is completely different. I dont think you understand the concept of special operations forces.

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## pakomar

taimikhan said:


> These desert camo boots are more suited with the new camo uniform of PA, if you see someone wearing these shoes with the new camo uniform you will see how well they go with them, but they don't match with the woodland camo of SSG.
> 
> I believe they are using it more for style with woodland rather for operational requirements.
> 
> And the black shine in other leather boots can be taken off, plus in the field the dust and mud makes the shine go away, so the shine is not an excuse for wearing the desert camo.
> 
> The desert camo shoes were started to be worn by the SSG guys after the new PA uniform camo came into service, before that in old pics you won't be seeing desert camo shoes being worn by SSG guys.


yea sir you are right...it dose suit Pakistan army new uniform ....that was my point SSG soldier were highlighted in battle field because of desert camo boots. is n its a problem for SSG??


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## PAFAce

Creder said:


> what the hell is the use of this "SSG" if our masjids keep getting bombed....who the hell cares how good they are if they cant even protect innocent kids from dying


Why do you think they have resorted to attacking soft targets like Masajid and local markets? What forced them to go for maximum damage on Pakistani civilians?

Don't be an idiot. It's okay to be frustrated, but it's not okay to blame the wrong people for it. Nobody can stop these attacks as long as there are safe havens for these people in Pakistan and Afghanistan. That is what is being destroyed. It's a price we have to pay, there is no way around it. And who's fault is that? The SSG doesn't bring corrupt governments to power one after another, the SSG isn't responsible for our week economy, the SSG doesn't impose dictatorship on the country every 5 years.

We all share the blame, hence we all share the responsibility. The difference between you and those SSG soldiers is, they are actually doing something about it by putting their lives on the line.

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## mughaljee

PAFAce said:


> The SSG doesn't bring corrupt governments to power one after another, the SSG isn't responsible for our week economy, the SSG doesn't impose dictatorship on the country every 5 years.


Right


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## Gazzi



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## Super Falcon

plz post lattest photos


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## cougar

very well said...


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## Mercenary

Is there like a training documentary on the SSG...I don't mean these patriotic song videos but something tangible.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

They are not SSG they are Frontier constabulary look at the uniform and the logo on the BELT.
Blunder by the reporter.


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## ghazi52

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> They are not SSG they are Frontier constabulary look at the uniform and the logo on the BELT.
> Blunder by the reporter.



Actually they are trained by SSG through Americans, you can see logo of special services, but you are right they are not SSG in any term, as you know our so called reporter.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

ghazi52 said:


> Actually they are trained by SSG through Americans, you can see logo of special services, but you are right they are not SSG in any term, as you know our so called reporter.



Actually they are QRF special forces of F.C.


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## TaimiKhan

PN and GHazi, guys, these are the commando section of the Frontier Constabulary, which has been there for years, even before the WoT started. 

Frontier Constabulary is kind of police, their officer cadre is from police service. 

The ones trained by SSG and Americans, a 400+ strong unit of special forces are from the *Frontier Corps*. Frontier Corps is like Rangers in Punjab and Sindh. 

Frontier Constabulary and Frontier Corps (NWFP & Balochistan) are both different organizations, one manned by Police Service Officers, while the other from Army. And the soldiers are a permanent part of these forces with their own training centers. 

Hope this clears the confusion.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Tami my father is commanding a militia


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## TaimiKhan

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Tami my father is commanding a militia



Which militia ?? Frontier Corps ???


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## ahmed_naj

> Is there like a training documentary on the SSG...I don't mean these patriotic song videos but something tangible.



there was a short documentary produced by PTV I'll try digging it out


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## ahmed_naj

all right, here you go:






you can find the other parts in his other uploads (YouTube - jawwwwad's Channel)


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## DESERT FIGHTER

taimikhan said:


> Which militia ?? Frontier Corps ???


FC Balouchistan

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## Xeric

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> FC Balouchistan



Wanna like to name the particular Wing?


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## Super Falcon

most braviest armed forces in the world now

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## razgriz19

Creder said:


> what the hell is the use of this "SSG" if our masjids keep getting bombed....who the hell cares how good they are if they cant even protect innocent kids from dying



no one can prevent those attacks, its really hard to locate one terrorist in thousands of civilians, and even if they did spoted the terrorist then there is pobably nothing they can do.....the terrorist probably would blow himself anyway....


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## razgriz19

Mercenary said:


> Is there like a training documentary on the SSG...I don't mean these patriotic song videos but something tangible.


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## Super Falcon

Pakistani deltaforce, giggens,spatnaz,SAS


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## mughaljee

SSG , i called them with love, Gin.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

self deleted


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## Windjammer



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## zagahaga

give me till iam 30 and ill join pakistan miltary inshallah


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Lol at 30 u can join as a civilian peon and fetch files for PA officiers


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## ARIZ ZAFAR

hello guys,can some one one give me any credible source where i can actually read about the operations performed in the past wars with India by SSG.well i want to tell you guys here in defense weekly which is monthly issue i cannot find SSG's name in top 5 special forces.there were many criteria but SSG was not even in one of them.i know they have lot of brave officers but i wish my PAKISTAN should have been there.


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## uncanny

i know this is out of the way from this topic but can any one tell me where i can find those desert camo shoes.... any idea? 
and sorry for being disturbing this thread ....................peace


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## blain2

ARIZ ZAFAR said:


> hello guys,can some one one give me any credible source where i can actually read about the operations performed in the past wars with India by SSG.well i want to tell you guys here in defense weekly which is monthly issue i cannot find SSG's name in top 5 special forces.there were many criteria but SSG was not even in one of them.i know they have lot of brave officers but i wish my PAKISTAN should have been there.



While I do not bother with top 5 or 10 lists because they are essentially bogus, I know for a fact that combat experience and training wise, SSG is right at the top without any doubt in my mind. Equipment is one area where there is a need to upgrade constantly, otherwise we have a pretty potent and effective SOF capability.

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## fatman17

blain2 said:


> While I do not bother with top 5 or 10 lists because they are essentially bogus, I know for a fact that combat experience and training wise, SSG is right at the top without any doubt in my mind. Equipment is one area where there is a need to upgrade constantly, *otherwise we have a pretty potent and effective SOF capability*.



as proved by the Swat ops !!!


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## ARIZ ZAFAR

blain i know our SSG is very competent force,but the question is if we are so competent then why couldn't we do well then the Indians in airborne Africa?.in your post you have written that it is just like the game of hockey, where one team can loose or win one or the other time.then tell me mod when Indians where there our SSG should have defeated them.on this forum since i have joined i have always learned so much about our SSG.but this is time to open our eyes and access our special forces.Indians totally outperformed us in speed marching,why couldn't we?we always talk about how grueling our SSG's training is but in one basic thing we have been outshone by them. i really don't care about america or any other country but just the Indians.it would have been better if we have won the competition.still i think there is lot of scope of improvement for our SSG.they should be the best at least not behind indians.


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## Slides

ARIZ ZAFAR said:


> blain i know our SSG is very competent force,but the question is if we are so competent then why couldn't we do well then the Indians in airborne Africa?.in your post you have written that it is just like the game of hockey, where one team can loose or win one or the other time.then tell me mod when Indians where there our SSG should have defeated them.on this forum since i have joined i have always learned so much about our SSG.but this is time to open our eyes and access our special forces.Indians totally outperformed us in speed marching,why couldn't we?we always talk about how grueling our SSG's training is but in one basic thing we have been outshone by them. i really don't care about america or any other country but just the Indians.it would have been better if we have won the competition.still i think there is lot of scope of improvement for our SSG.they should be the best at least not behind indians.



Indians may be training harder in running away. Who knows? We don't really know details of the competition or what teams were sent. Indians may have selected the best runners and sent for all we know, while we sent a regular unit with mix of people with different skills. Not to be racist here, but we if had send a unit of makrani/sheedis they might have been the best runners.

Not to devalue endurance running for spec ops, but there are many factors a competition cannot tell or should tell.


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## LCA Tejas

Slides said:


> Indians may be training harder in running away. Who knows? We don't really know details of the competition or what teams were sent. Indians may have selected the best runners and sent for all we know, while we sent a regular unit with mix of people with different skills. Not to be racist here, but we if had send a unit of makrani/sheedis they might have been the best runners.
> 
> Not to devalue endurance running for spec ops, but there are many factors a competition cannot tell or should tell.



No matter its India or USA or Pakistan, everyone sends the best for the competition.... But a competition cannot judge the Bravery or Skill of a commando... No commando Units in the world would display there full skills in an open air, but a display of edurance will be at the top..... *May it be SSG or NSG, These two are a threat to terrorists. *


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## a state of trance

I love my SAS.

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## razgriz19

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1192/20070426162217enlus0099.jpg
SSG


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## razgriz19

a state of trance said:


> I love my SAS.



indeed, they'r awesome!!

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## hamza the lion

i lv my ssg


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## ali arsalan farid

nice sharing


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## blain2

ARIZ ZAFAR said:


> blain i know our SSG is very competent force,but the question is if we are so competent then why couldn't we do well then the Indians in airborne Africa?.in your post you have written that it is just like the game of hockey, where one team can loose or win one or the other time.then tell me mod when Indians where there our SSG should have defeated them.on this forum since i have joined i have always learned so much about our SSG.but this is time to open our eyes and access our special forces.Indians totally outperformed us in speed marching,why couldn't we?we always talk about how grueling our SSG's training is but in one basic thing we have been outshone by them. i really don't care about america or any other country but just the Indians.it would have been better if we have won the competition.still i think there is lot of scope of improvement for our SSG.they should be the best at least not behind indians.



SSG showed up at the competition for the first time. Indians had been to the competition before. The Indians understood the format of the exercise and usually when you have been to such competitions, then you train keeping in mind things that you would need to perform again.

Secondly, of the 18-20 teams, Pakistan came in 4th after the Dutch. Indians came in 2nd after South Africa. Not a bad showing for Pakistan for the first time around since most of the others DNF/DNQ'd.

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## arslan_treen

razgriz19 said:


> http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1192/20070426162217enlus0099.jpg
> SSG



they are not SSGs they are Rangers Counter terrorism Unit .


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## razgriz19

arslan_treen said:


> they are not SSGs they are Rangers Counter terrorism Unit .



i c...my bad then..


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## massattack

anyword or details on the operation of Operation Rahe Rast by ssg. any incounter with the enemy? or everything is kept secret for now? i wish i was in the SSG serving with my brothers.


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## massattack

zagahaga said:


> give me till iam 30 and ill join pakistan miltary inshallah




Thats absurd. there is a age limit to join the army man 30 is over age :-O


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## LCA Tejas

blain2 said:


> *SSG showed up at the competition for the first time. Indians had been to the competition before. The Indians understood the format of the exercise and usually when you have been to such competitions, then you train keeping in mind things that you would need to perform again.*
> 
> Secondly, of the 18-20 teams, Pakistan came in 4th after the Dutch. Indians came in 2nd after South Africa. Not a bad showing for Pakistan for the first time around since most of the others DNF/DNQ'd.



Iam sorry, we do not train our Commandos to fight just in competitions, SSG performed well and so did our people, Its not becoz We have been to competitions... every competition has different terrains, different challenges and different mods of operation....


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## massattack

Always Neutral said:


> *I agree. The facts of Somalia are very well documented. No SSG was involved. USA SF made a bad operational mistake and thats that. US SF are not so pathetic that they need another SF to rescue them ! What they needed was immediate on ground supporting fire and evacuation which the Malaysians and Pakistanis provided since the operation happened in the area where the Pakistani Armed Forces were deployed.
> 
> Please remember the Americans went into the area which came under Pakistans supervison
> to catch Aideed the warlord and did not bother to inform anybody.
> 
> regards*



Americans have a way with that. sick pricks


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## massattack

LCA Tejas said:


> Iam sorry, we do not train our Commandos to fight just in competitions, SSG performed well and so did our people, Its not becoz We have been to competitions... every competition has different terrains, different challenges and different mods of operation....



than you better watch out. if your looking for trouble you better think twice. i m sick n tired with your Indian media and armed forces statements.


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## LCA Tejas

massattack said:


> than you better watch out. if your looking for trouble you better think twice. i m sick n tired with your Indian media and armed forces statements.



Iam sorry, I havent said anything negative or positive... I have been neutral


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## blain2

LCA Tejas said:


> Iam sorry, we do not train our Commandos to fight just in competitions, SSG performed well and so did our people, Its not becoz We have been to competitions... every competition has different terrains, different challenges and different mods of operation....



Airborne Africa however is a single exercise that has similar events and if you have an idea, then you can plan around it and play to your strengths and weaknesses. This is no different than any other sporting event.

I agree both sides did well. However India's presence in Botswana in the previous year surely brought some benefit to the team in South Africa.


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## SekrutYakhni

I have a question...

SSG has a special wing which is not so public but highly trained? 
They are especially placed in case of a big conflict...


Is there such a wing within SSG or it just my assumption?

and the technology used in Hollywood action movies is sometimes referred to the future of American Army (tech wise)..

If it is true than are we (Pakistanis) working on gene modification to increase the capacity of soldiers or something...


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## LCA Tejas

blain2 said:


> Airborne Africa however is a single exercise that has similar events and if you have an idea, then you can plan around it and play to your strengths and weaknesses. This is no different than any other sporting event.
> 
> I agree both sides did well. However India's presence in Botswana in the previous year surely brought some benefit to the team in South Africa.



You are welcome to disagree......But the truth is challenges are different and the terrains are too different... It dosent who wins or looses... they are soldiers... *a soldier never looses.*...


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## faisaljaffery

SSC is a pride for Pakistan


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## Frankenstein




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## Frankenstein




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## Crescent Falcon

kea SSG ko direct apply kia ja skta ha?? mtlb ma faoj sy nae hun .. dur ka wasta b nae.. kea ma apply kr skta hun ssg ko direct ma>>??

mdad chahiay


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## cropta

Crescent Falcon said:


> kea SSG ko direct apply kia ja skta ha?? mtlb ma faoj sy nae hun .. dur ka wasta b nae.. kea ma apply kr skta hun ssg ko direct ma>>??
> 
> mdad chahiay



The medium of communication on this forum is English or its unofficial derivative Engrish.

Thank you.


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## Crescent Falcon

tahirkhely said:


> Actually i am referring to Afghan War. Where Russian commandoes came across Yaldrim battalion. There are some eyewitnesses of that conflict still alive and willing to give their account. Certainly they dont have a website so that i can refer you too. They are Sepoys and Subedars. But certainly they have something which will not be digested by you easily.
> During my National Cadet Corps training, I heard a lot of incidences of pitched battles against Russian Airborne insertions for hammer and anvil sort of operations. I can give you each and every accounts detail but with a precondition that you digest it.
> it will add a lot to this forum as well.1


han sahab.. is ka info zarur btaiay.. bohot kuch suna tha ssg ka spestnaz sy samna honay ka bara ma.. behter ho jo kuch jankari mil javey..
nawazish!!


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## Crescent Falcon

tahirkhely said:


> Actually i am referring to Afghan War. Where Russian commandoes came across Yaldrim battalion. There are some eyewitnesses of that conflict still alive and willing to give their account. Certainly they dont have a website so that i can refer you too. They are Sepoys and Subedars. But certainly they have something which will not be digested by you easily.
> During my National Cadet Corps training, I heard a lot of incidences of pitched battles against Russian Airborne insertions for hammer and anvil sort of operations. I can give you each and every accounts detail but with a precondition that you digest it.
> it will add a lot to this forum as well.1


han sahab zarur btaiay.. bohot suna tha ssg ka spetsnaz ki bara ma. acha ho jo or jankari mil skay..
nawazish


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## Crescent Falcon

cropta said:


> The medium of communication on this forum is English or its unofficial derivative Engrish.
> 
> Thank you.


oh i m sorry.. just wanna ask that how can i directly apply for ssh while i am not in army.. i mean a civilian can directly apply to ssg or not.

thanz!


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## Xeric

Crescent Falcon said:


> oh i m sorry.. just wanna ask that how can i directly apply for ssh while i am not in army.. i mean a civilian can directly apply to ssg or not.
> 
> thanz!



No, you cant.


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## Super Falcon

no first u have to be in army and had passed your standard trainning than it is not like that from a day one the fighter jet you have given to fly step by step you have to move upwards


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## blain2

*Pak Army commandos leave for China for week long drills*

No PR251/2010-ISPR
Rawalpindi - July 1, 2010:

A contingent of Pakistan Army departed for China today from PAF Base Chaklala to participate in third joint military training exercise,YOUYI- III (Friendship) being held in China.

A week long exercise will be conducted from 1st July to 7th July at Qixtonxia, Yeuhuan China. Troops of Special Services Group of both the countries will participate in joint exercise. The exercise has been designed to benefit from the professional skills employed by the two Special Forces Group at sub unit level.

The aim of the exercise is to practice counter terrorism mechanisms / drills in mountains and developing interpersonal rapport between participants of both sides.

Pakistan&#8217;s unprecedented success in counter terrorism operations has contributed to an environment in which Pakistan Army and PLA have sought to hold a joint exercise to benefit from each others&#8217; experiences. This exercise is third in the series, in which Special Forces from both sides along with Chinese Air Force and Aviation will participate.

Senior Military leadership from both sides will also attend the Exercise. The YOUYI-III exercise will be a true manifestation to a famous Chinese phrase &#8220;Pakistan China friendship is higher than the mountains and deeper than oceans&#8221;.

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## Kompromat

Balin bhai can you get some Photos of this exercise ?


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## TaimiKhan

Black Blood said:


> Balin bhai can you get some Photos of this exercise ?



Yaar start tu honay dae, pics and video clips khud baa khud aajayee gi.


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## faisaljaffery

SSG Zindabad


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## air marshal



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## air marshal



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## air marshal



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## air marshal



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## Patriot

This is the first time China has ever allowed foreign troops to visit and stay at active Military Base of PLA.


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## mughaljee

Please post some pictures, 
because in some instituation video facility is blocked.


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## Super Falcon

hope to see better rifles than AK 47 in their hands G 36,AK100,FAMAS etc


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## air marshal




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## air marshal




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## air marshal




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## air marshal




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## air marshal



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## air marshal



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## mnmaria20

this is a nice information


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## Quwa

KarwaSach said:


> Are our SSG capable of anything bythe way?
> If they were doing what they are supposed to do, there wont be that many bomb blasts in our country.
> I feel this is totally useless division of army. Day dreamers, and they fight only in their dreams where they always win! What a pity.


SSG's job isn't to reverse generations long societal, political and economic mistakes. Direct your blame & anger towards the establishment sitting in Islamabad for poor state management and subordinate policy making.

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## blain2

Sweat saves blood.... 
Joint Military Training Exercise-YOUYI- III (Friendship-2010) conducted from 1st July to 7th July at Qixtonxia, Yeuhuan - China



More here:
http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/


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## Ahmed Mehmood

Assalam-o-Alaikum brothers! I have a question, if some experienced or well informed person can answer.... Can an Engineer in the Pak Army join SSG? like, after doing BE in their respective discipline & passing out as Captain after 1 year training at PMA Kakul, can an engg. volunteer to join SSG?


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## blain2

Ahmed Mehmood said:


> Assalam-o-Alaikum brothers! I have a question, if some experienced or well informed person can answer.... Can an Engineer in the Pak Army join SSG? like, after doing BE in their respective discipline & passing out as Captain after 1 year training at PMA Kakul, can an engg. volunteer to join SSG?



Yes they can. As long as they are medically fit and have 18-24 month service. On the second condition, there may be some changes, but the answer to your question is yes.


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## Ahmed Mehmood

thanks Gen. blain2!  one more thing i want to ask, when the Engineers finally pass out from PMA after 5 years, they have the same same seniority as the ones who joined the corresponding PMA Long Course with them instead of TCC, is the 24 month period included in seniority as well? which is a pre-requisite for joining the SSG.. can they directly volunteer for SSG as Capt. after passing out?


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## Xeric

Ahmed Mehmood said:


> thanks Gen. blain2!  one more thing i want to ask, when the Engineers finally pass out from PMA after 5 years, they have the same same seniority as the ones who joined the corresponding PMA Long Course with them instead of TCC, is the 24 month period included in seniority as well? which is a pre-requisite for joining the SSG.. can they directly volunteer for SSG as Capt. after passing out?



They will get an ante-date seniority which would be at par with the date when the corresponding long-course went into PMA for training, but dont worry, you would be thoroughly rubbed in PMA and wont think much of this seniority business.


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## Ahmed Mehmood

haha... yeah, three words for PMA... Discipline, Toughness & Perfection!
they make you run so bad that i have suggested an alternate abbreviation for PMA, make it.. Pakistan Marathon Academy!  haha


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## Xeric

Ahmed Mehmood said:


> haha... yeah, three words for PMA... Discipline, Toughness & Perfection!
> they make you run so bad that i have suggested an alternate abbreviation for PMA, make it.. Pakistan Marathon Academy!  haha



Laugh as much as you can.

The guud days would soon be over...

Ok, jokes apart, i wish you best of luck. i am sure your PMA tenure would become your best memories ever. The place is out of this world, believe me.

And remember, give in your best, as we dont like loser!

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## Ahmed Mehmood

thanks a lot brO! InshAllah i'll try my level best, thats what the PMA, Pak Army & most important of all, Pakistan wants from me  pray for me brothers..


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## air marshal




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## Super Falcon

why not SSG given special type pf guns why old AK 47 AK 47 till now has more fire power and won many battles over american guns but times have changed american 6.55MM Grendal same as M 16 same range and more range tham M 16 and more fire power than AK 47 must check it out


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## True_Pakistan_Zindabad

No one uses the 6.55 and it's too expensive to adopt in numbers by Pakistan. SSG are already using a wide variety of weapons from H&K MP5 to M4 carbine. SSG have no issues with small arms, but I think the regular forces are due an upgrade from the G-3 and Type 56. At least our Type 56 have proven to be reliable and superior to anything in northern areas and Kashmir. G-3 proves useful in open long range engagements but I am not sure how well they fair in the desert with all the sand. Many of the POF G3 I've seen have been of low quality. Same goes for the locally produced MG3, they just don't seem precise like the factory HK products. MP5 are pretty decent though.

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## Super Falcon

yes G 3 definately due to be replaced with equally matched new contander what weapon do you think is good to replace our old G 3 Rifle this rifle can be its succesor.


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## Super Falcon

so what do you think of our Type 56 Norinco made how do you compare it with original AK 47 what you think is better Type 56 or AK 47 in my opinion i think Type 56 lacks may be im worng if im correct me


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Super Falcon said:


> so what do you think of our Type 56 Norinco made how do you compare it with original AK 47 what you think is better Type 56 or AK 47 in my opinion i think Type 56 lacks may be im worng if im correct me



Type-47 is an upgraded AK-47 better accuracy,range etc... but we r using SMG which is an upgraded variant of type 56.
*Made by POF its a little heavier then type 56 but its accuracy,range and other features are improved*.



air marshal said:


>



This weapon is made by POF upgraded with an 800 $ day n night AIM COM sight, and modular rail forend, rail covers,front grip.


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## True_Pakistan_Zindabad

Super Falcon said:


> so what do you think of our Type 56 Norinco made how do you compare it with original AK 47 what you think is better Type 56 or AK 47 in my opinion i think Type 56 lacks may be im worng if im correct me



The differences are that the Type 56 has a closed circle front sight, 
and no muzzle break. Also they have a folding bayonet or no bayonet. AK has detachable bayonet. Here is some facts from a website regarding the differences. I've had both rifles and I prefer the lighter and cheaper Type 56. They are pretty much the same thing. 



> Both the guns have similar dimensions but the AK-56 assault rifle is a bit lighter, weighing 3.8 kg compared to the 4.3 kg weight of the AK-47 rifle. They both use 7.62 mm cartridges and have a 30 round feed system meaning that one magazine can hold up to 30 bullets. The AK-47 is also compatible with a 40 round box or 75 round drum magazine. Here the box and drum refers to the shape of the magazine. Both of them have a gas-operated, rotating bolt firing action. Gas-operated loading action uses the pressure of gas inside the cartridge to eject the spent case and mount a new cartridge. They both have a maximum effective range of about 400 metres. The AK-47 is very soldier friendly and can be used in any possible condition, even underwater and under mud. Its simple design and high reliability makes it one of the most highly produced weapons in the world.
> 
> The only visible difference between the AK-47 and the AK-56 is that the AK-56 has a fully enclosed, hooded front sight whereas the AK-47 sports a partially enclosed front sight. Some versions of the AK-56 also have a folding spike bayonet whereas the AK-47 has a detachable knife bayonet. Apart from these it is almost impossible to visually distinguish between the rifles.
> 
> The AK-47 rifle is produced in many countries including Germany, Poland, Israel, and North Korea and even in the USA. But finding an original and genuine AK-47 is rather difficult these days. The AK-56 rifles were the standard weapon of the Chinese military until the 1980s. Many other countries and liberation groups use the AK-56.
> 
> Read more: Difference Between AK-47 and AK-56 | Difference Between Difference Between AK-47 and AK-56 | Difference Between | AK-47 vs AK-56


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## True_Pakistan_Zindabad

Super Falcon said:


> yes G 3 definately due to be replaced with equally matched new contander what weapon do you think is good to replace our old G 3 Rifle this rifle can be its succesor.



I would like to see the next generation battle rifle produced by POF. There should be a full size version and a lighter, shorter assault version for special purposes and a squad assist version, perhaps even a marksman rifle of the same internal mechanisms. Many rifles fall in this category it just comes down to cost. Pakistan military is going to squeeze another few decades out of the current weapons like G3 and the assorted Steyr AUG, M4, MP5 and so on. 

They have replacement choices from all the major gun manufacturers. I would choose FN SCAR system. Produce the Heavy version for regular soldiers to keep the advantages of the big 7.62x51 round. Add a long range scope for marksmen. Give forward units, police and paramilitary the smaller 5.56 version. Perhaps down the road better options will open up. So far though POF and military are content. I would like to see some changes. The SSG soldier in the picture above is a good sign of some change.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Pakistan Zindabad mp5a3 is the standard CQB weapon of Pak army which is being replaced by SMG (POF).


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## True_Pakistan_Zindabad

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Pakistan Zindabad mp5a3 is the standard CQB weapon of Pak army which is being replaced by SMG (POF).



Yeah you are right though it is the MP5A1 that is standard for Pak army. SMG are much better for modern day CQB.


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## Super Falcon

well cananyone tell me the complete list of rifles pistols snipers what SSG uses please i will be thankfull to your help


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## Super Falcon

and i think machine gun as also too old for our army they are using they are also due to be replaced too


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## True_Pakistan_Zindabad

Super Falcon said:


> and i think machine gun as also too old for our army they are using they are also due to be replaced too



A lot of people think we should go with 5.56 calibre MG4 but for general purpose MG I think we need to stick with 7.62x51 and field lighter squad assist assault rifles for each unit on top of the MG3 for versatility and increased firepower. Here I think such weapons as FN SCAR Heavy or possibly an American LMG could be acquired for license production. Type 56 and SMG is the latest acquisition after so many decades and such old technology for SSG to have any confidence in local gun market.


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## Super Falcon

well old machine guns with common army personal need to be replaced with newer versions from america and russia


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## Zarbe Momin

in my view there is some sturctural changes required in infantary, smallest troop unit consist on 8 to 11 troops including one GCO just one solider has MG3 all other have G3, My opinion is that there should be two MG3. Secondly they shold use day-night optical sight, Americans use such for snipers.

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## Super Falcon

and what type pf sniper they use in that 11 man troop and agreed with you that 2 soldeirs should be given MG to supreesenemy fire and 2 marksman snipers with nigt vision optic 5 with new rifles 2 with Smg


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## Tajdar adil

I wish to join SSG


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## night hawk

can we get to know who were the special members of the contingent of Pakistan Army that performed in third joint military training exercise,YOUYI- III ????


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## Golden tigers

Could any one plz tell me that can rangers personals can join SSG ?

thankyou


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## Xeric

Golden tigers said:


> Could any one plz tell me that can rangers personals can join SSG ?
> 
> thankyou



No, they cant.


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## Jango

actually SSG does use M4(CAR-15)...they aslo use p90and styer AUG...but only on special missions and that too in clean non sandy environment.i asked a SSG soldier!!


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## Jango

http://www.defence.pk/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/7073...this is the link...enjoy


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## Jango

http://http://www.defence.pk/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8839...this should also help the answer to your question along with my other URL..


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## TaimiKhan

Am not sure if this has been posted before or not, if has been then sorry. 

**********************************************************


*2009.01.01.
AERODIUM completes vertical wind tunnel for Special Forces of Pakistan*

*It is the first MULTIPLE MOTOR open type wind tunnel used for army. The latest technologies have been implemented to achieve the highest possible parameters. As a result, it is the smoothest and safest Open Air Wind Tunnel ever built, equipped with the most uniform airflow. The airflow is sufficiently strong and uniform to allow flying not only in regular jumping suits but also flying with military equipment. *
































I pass by the SSG para training facility nearly every other day & see this wind tunnel thingy and wish to go on this vertical wind tunnel facility one day

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## Kompromat

^ Supercooool


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## m.faisalfani

nice picturs


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## m.faisalfani

please send me mor pictures of ssg and also send some video clips


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## mjnaushad

TaimiKhan said:


> Am not sure if this has been posted before or not, if has been then sorry.
> 
> **********************************************************
> 
> 
> *2009.01.01.
> AERODIUM completes vertical wind tunnel for Special Forces of Pakistan*
> 
> *It is the first MULTIPLE MOTOR open type wind tunnel used for army. The latest technologies have been implemented to achieve the highest possible parameters. As a result, it is the smoothest and safest Open Air Wind Tunnel ever built, equipped with the most uniform airflow. The airflow is sufficiently strong and uniform to allow flying not only in regular jumping suits but also flying with military equipment. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I pass by the SSG para training facility nearly every other day & see this wind tunnel thingy and wish to go on this vertical wind tunnel facility one day


I saw that ......You can get a glimpse of this machine if on high altitude building...Awesome....I didn't know what i am looking at.....Its in front of KFC right

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## Golden tigers

thanks for uploading its soo cool and motivating.....


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## spike19

welll it is special services group and as they have designated this name its confirmed be logical and think logical as ssg is trained to perform a number of special ops so ........u know special services group


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## Golden tigers

does the training of SSG soldiers are different from SSG OFFICIAL ranks ?


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## Malik Usman

Sid said:


> They look rough and tough; but their performance has not been that outstanding as you would expect from an 'Elite' unit.
> 
> Ofcourse they've had successes (they are expected to carry out the more dangerous missions which is why they are 'elite') but it is the failures that troubles me.
> 
> During previous wars with India, quite a few missions failed and I just hope they've learned from their mistakes.
> 
> Cheers.




Where they lost their missions give a breif description...........don't just throw an arrow in the air................I think you are lacking knowledge about SSG's and their history and missions.


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## Frankenstein

they sud be like black Ops


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## Stealth_fighter

nice1 bloods..


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## blain2

Golden tigers said:


> does the training of SSG soldiers are different from SSG OFFICIAL ranks ?



Without a shadow of doubt, the training of the SSG officers is tougher than that of the SSG ranks (soldiers etc.). The reason for this is because the officers are expected to set personal examples of very high performance and lead by these very examples. In the SSG, nothing gains respect aside from putting out (setting example by doing it and demonstrating it to the troops one commands).

To Sid's point about SSG performance not being "outstanding", that is a valid comment. However special operations by their very nature are difficult and have a higher rate of failure than success. Most SF units and their supporters talk up the successes and not the failures and the latter mostly stay hidden behind the shroud of secrecy.

SSG has had its shares of successes and failures. Also the rate of induction of the SSG in operations is higher than many other comparable SFs. So the failures are noticed a bit too. Aside from the failures due to planning in 65 and the set back at Siachen in 83, the SSG has done quite well in every operation it has been inducted in.

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## Myth_buster_1

M Zulfiqar Asad said:


> Images from Blain's post



I know this guy. he is my bro-in-law's course mate and visited him in Charat!

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## Syed TALHA SHAH

hey guys u knw wot....i have visit SSG training center a lot of times..
SSGs r rocks man...
terrorists cant spoil peace of or beloved country till SSGs r here to protect PAKISTAN by the GRACE OF GOD


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## zubi2011

*Land Forces*

The Structure of the Pakistan Army can be broken down two ways, administrative, and operational. Operationally the Pakistan Army is divided in 10 Corps having areas of responsibility (AOR) from mountainous regions of northern Pakistan to the desert and coastal regions of the south. Administratively it is divided in different regiments (details below).


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## Last Hope

No wonder out of the hundreds, our SSG is on the top 3!


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## helluri

salam brothers. i m turkis engineering student. do you know any information about this wind tunnel ? diesel or electric engine ? how many engines ? diameters of propellers ? flight area? i m on wind tunnel project and i want to compare my calculations. anybody help me ?


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## helluri

brother do u know any information about power ?


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## sniperr

nice..............


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## DESERT FIGHTER

air marshal said:


>


 
What rifle is tht at 0:16 held by Pakistani soldier? it doesnt look like an AK series..........


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## krash

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> What rifle is tht at 0:16 held by Pakistani soldier? it doesnt look like an AK series..........


 
Im pretty sure its one of the Ak series.


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## RAZA SAHI

most of the SSG guys look well in to 30s, anybody knows the average age of SSG personnel.


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## jamesbaldwin

Last Hope said:


> No wonder out of the hundreds, our SSG is on the top 3!


 NO WAY MATE!! any Li ks to back up your ridiculous claim?? My mate's dad was a Royal Marine then SBS and he has told me he has seen lots of Arab "SFs" like SSG who like to look good and are more superficial then anything else and when put into a tight spot (like war) fall to $hit! But the "real" SFs of the world (SAS, US SF, FRENCH, INDIAN) when not on parade but on ops look rather unprofessional and rag-tag but are true fighters. Note I only mention India because a lot of people have mentioned how because they lack elbow pads and trivial things like this and dont look as "polished" as Pakistani they are not very good (although if you watch recent "MISSION ARMY" you will see that even Regular PARA are getting this stuff so the issues have been resolved.) in certain pics in J&K. 

This is not meant to be offensive but just sharing my limited knowledge on this with anoctadtes my mate's dad told me. 

P.s he told me he has trained with Indian SF and said they are " bloody hard, tough blokes" (his words). 

Sorry he didn't tell me if he has worked with SSG so no comparative point.


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## krash

jamesbaldwin said:


> NO WAY MATE!! any Li ks to back up your ridiculous claim?? My mate's dad was a Royal Marine then *SBS and he has told me he has seen lots of Arab "SFs" like SSG who like to look good and are more superficial then anything else *and when put into a tight spot (like war) fall to $hit! But the "real" SFs of the world (SAS, US SF, FRENCH, INDIAN) when not on parade but on ops look rather unprofessional and rag-tag but are true fighters. Note I only mention India because a lot of people have mentioned how because they lack elbow pads and trivial things like this and dont look as "polished" as Pakistani they are not very good (although if you watch recent "MISSION ARMY" you will see that even Regular PARA are getting this stuff so the issues have been resolved.) in certain pics in J&K.
> 
> This is not meant to be offensive but just sharing my limited knowledge on this with anoctadtes my mate's dad told me.
> 
> P.s he told me he has trained with Indian SF and said they are " bloody hard, tough blokes" (his words).
> 
> Sorry he didn't tell me if he has worked with SSG so no comparative point.


 
Dude firstly.......SSG is an arab sf..........????? What the hell are you talking about? And yeah we know how the arab special forces are and thats why they request the SSG to come and help them when ever they are in a pickle. Secondly these guys are very little "show" if at all. There are no movies or TV shows glorifying them. It is only their training, participation in international exercises and their operations that have made their image as such. Thirdly you should go read up on the SSG a little. A few references might help. Remember Mogadishu??? You must have seen Blackhawk down. You should read up on the SSG's involvement in that operation the movie showed nothing. Also checkout the reports about when the SSG faced off against the Spetsnaz. Even the Indian military admits their professionalism! Go and ask your mate's dad about the SSG he will tell you.

SSG is an arab sf......pffff..........that was uncalled for mate.........please at least get your geography straight.

Disclaimer: This post is NOT targeted at Arabs at all. I hold no bias or prejudice against the Arabs.

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## aks18

17th May, 2011: 
Second Martyrdom of Captain Bilal Zafar Shaheed! SALUTENTIONS SHAHEED!
THE NATION FEELS PROUD ON WHAT YOU DID FOR THIS MOTHER LAND!
HATS OFF! MAY GOD BLESS YOU WITH JANAT UL FIRDOOS

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## blain2

jamesbaldwin said:


> NO WAY MATE!! any Li ks to back up your ridiculous claim?? My mate's dad was a Royal Marine then SBS and he has told me he has seen lots of Arab "SFs" like SSG who like to look good and are more superficial then anything else and when put into a tight spot (like war) fall to $hit! But the "real" SFs of the world (SAS, US SF, FRENCH, INDIAN) when not on parade but on ops look rather unprofessional and rag-tag but are true fighters. Note I only mention India because a lot of people have mentioned how because they lack elbow pads and trivial things like this and dont look as "polished" as Pakistani they are not very good (although if you watch recent "MISSION ARMY" you will see that even Regular PARA are getting this stuff so the issues have been resolved.) in certain pics in J&K.
> 
> This is not meant to be offensive but just sharing my limited knowledge on this with anoctadtes my mate's dad told me.
> 
> P.s he told me he has trained with Indian SF and said they are " bloody hard, tough blokes" (his words).
> 
> Sorry he didn't tell me if he has worked with SSG so no comparative point.


 
While I would not say that SSG are the best, they are some of the best special operations troops around. I do not want to get into this discussion around he said this and that.

Nothing on the SF side has anything to do with "polished"! What does that even mean? Pakistani SF can hold their own against any others any time of the day. Where they lack is technology. Western SF are better equipped for sure, but trained SF manpower is pretty solid on our side and would compare equally well with others.

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## VelocuR

blain2 said:


> While I would not say that SSG are the best, they are some of the best special operations troops around. I do not want to get into this discussion around he said this and that.
> 
> Nothing on the SF side has anything to do with "polished"! What does that even mean? Pakistani SF can hold their own against any others any time of the day. Where they lack is technology. Western SF are better equipped for sure, but *trained SF manpower is pretty solid on our side and would compare equally well with others.*



Sir, are you sure, our nation and its people are shocked regarding 17 hours in PNS Mehran Attack and protect assets slow process. I guess, SSG basically not trained well against well-equipped Terrorists.


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## krash

RaptorRX707 said:


> Sir, are you sure, our nation and its people are shocked regarding 17 hours in PNS Mehran Attack and protect assets slow process. I guess, SSG basically not trained well against well-equipped Terrorists.


 
Or the SSG not present there at the time of the attack or the situation demanding more time for the operation to complete or the base being over an immense area that needed to be cleaned?

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## VelocuR

krash said:


> Or the SSG not present there at the time of the attack or the situation demanding more time for the operation to complete or the base being over an immense area that needed to be cleaned?


 
understood, surrounding by Army or 100 SSGs to contol terrorists in square size. The results is few terrorists escaped to unknown places, SSG's main job is to bring terrorists alives. How many personal killed compared to terrorists? Again, no need to underestimate our Army and SSG but learn their mistakes, I hope so.


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## Kompromat

One SSG died today in Tarbela , his parachute failed to open and he plummeted into earth  Ina lillah e wa inna eleh e raejun.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Innalilahe wa inna ileyehe rajeoon.........may God bless him and give strenght n patience to his family n frnds, ameen.


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## SparklingCrescent

that is quite a desastrous and painful death. Inalillahi wa Ina ilaihi rajiooon.


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## blain2

RaptorRX707 said:


> Sir, are you sure, our nation and its people are shocked regarding 17 hours in PNS Mehran Attack and protect assets slow process. I guess, SSG basically not trained well against well-equipped Terrorists.


 
Yaar, SSG troops are not guards sitting around watching over every nook and corner. They are employed when special operations need to be conducted. Its the job of the police, rangers, NP, Marines and the airmen etc. to secure sites and provide protection.

Secondly, 17 hours is relative. Its relative to what was happening in the environment they were operating in. The fact that the very same base where the P-3s are based also hosts multiple ordnance storage magazines and the SF troops had to be mindful about how they used firepower around these assets.

Secondly, what is coming to fore on this Mehran attack is that there was some internal collusion (by former Naval personnel) and that makes the task hard for any SF force. The Terrorists barricaded themselves inside a building which had limited access and they positioned their people to cover the entrances well. The SSG casualties occurred in the crucial phase of dynamic entry. Its a tough job and I think because of the overall ramifications around the perimeter security failure, SSG/N have not been given their due credit. They responded fast, yet the adversary had the immense knowledge of the layout and used it to their advantage. Given such case, this would be a hard task for any SF.

Failure was on the part of those responsible for securing the site. SSG was the team brought in to react to the situation on the ground. It goes to their credit that while prior to their arrival, the terrorists blew up one Orion (the second one supposedly caught fire), but after their arrival, they restricted the terrorists to areas from where they could no longer damage any further Naval assets. Then they killed 4 of these terrorists after a pretty significant firefight lasting for many hours.

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## blain2

SparklingCrescent said:


> that is quite a desastrous and painful death. Inalillahi wa Ina ilaihi rajiooon.


 
Indeed its a sad event, however it is also part of the trade they are involved in given the number of jumps that take place each year. Based on what I know, a death during training for war is no different than the martyrdom during a shooting war in the Islamic law. May the Almighty grant his family the patience to deal with his loss and may he rest in peace in the eternal abode. Ameen

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## SQ8

In addition to the SSG/N.. the operation was cleared up at a rapid pace after the arrival of "zarrar" company from Tarbela.. equipped with cornershot and NVG's.


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## Xeric

blain2 said:


> Yaar, SSG troops are not guards sitting around watching over every nook and corner. They are employed when special operations need to be conducted. Its the job of the police, rangers, NP, Marines and the airmen etc. to secure sites and provide protection.
> 
> Secondly, 17 hours is relative. Its relative to what was happening in the environment they were operating in. The fact that the very same base where the P-3s are based also host multiple ordnance storage magazines and the SF troops had to be mindful about how they used firepower around these assets.
> 
> Secondly, what is coming to fore on this Mehran attack is that there was some internal collusion (by former Naval personnel) and that makes the task hard for any SF force. The Terrorists barricaded themselves inside a building which had limited access and they positioned their people to cover the entrances well. The SSG casualties occurred in the crucial phase of dynamic entry. Its a tough job and I think because of the overall ramifications around the perimeter security failure, SSG/N have not been given their due credit. They responded fast, yet the adversary had the immense knowledge of the layout and used it to their advantage. Given such case, this would be a hard task for any SF.
> 
> Failure was on the part of those responsible for securing the site. SSG was the team brought in to react to the situation on the ground. It goes to their credit that while prior to their arrival, the terrorists blew up one Orion (the second one supposedly caught fire), but after their arrival, they restricted the terrorists to areas from where they could no longer damage any further Naval assets. Then they killed 4 of these terrorists after a pretty significant firefight lasting for many hours.


 
Blain, you should also see this in thos regards:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ehran-base-paf-faisal-base-2.html#post1825798



Santro said:


> In addition to the SSG/N.. the operation was cleared up at a rapid pace after the arrival of "zarrar" company from Tarbela.. equipped with cornershot and NVG's.


 
Santro, what i heard was that Zarar reached the spot but were not 'allowed' to operate. The op was done by SSGN. You know, the _istikak majrooh_ and stuff.

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## Jango

according to some officials , the terrorists were killed within half an hour of the arrival of SF in the morning, but then it took alot of time to secure the area and have a screening op i.e clear check the area of booby traps and/or explosives and such. that does take alot of time considering the area of the base. The SF also needed to be careful in order to not destroy the other equipment present.


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## AmberDutt

wasnt Illiyas Kashmiri, the mastermind of this attack an ex SSG trooper..??


----------



## Bratva

AmberDutt said:


> wasnt Illiyas Kashmiri, the mastermind of this attack an ex SSG trooper..??


 
No, he wasn't. It was a false claim made by our famous anchor. Even Illyas kashmiri denied this thing.

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## Jango

mafiya said:


> No, he wasn't. *It was a false claim made by our famous anchor*. Even Illyas kashmiri denied this thing.



was it HAMID mir the traitor adn piece of ****??...it is bound to be someone from geo.

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## cfa2010

i think it's good


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## Ssg1956

Hi guys, I am new at this forum and I am a big fan of Pakistan SSGs. I open this thread for all types of photo collection of SSGs, SSWs and SSNGs. Also VVIP security guards. Please don't upload photos of regular armies, Elite police force such as "No Fear" etc plus not trolling and comparisons.....

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## Jango

mods, please transfer this thread to the multimedia section.

---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 PM ----------

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/

---------- Post added at 03:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 PM ----------

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/

---------- Post added at 03:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:59 PM ----------

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/


----------



## GHOST RIDER

SSG operator posing with Colt M-4 carbine, sidearm and commando knife. Also shown to advantage is the Kevlar helmet and the GPS receiver on the belt.





SSG operator with type-56 assault rifle.




SSG's MUSA Company frogmen during training.




SSG instructor conducting Foreign Internal Defence (FID) training for Gulf SF operators.




Operators during rappeling training.




SSG operators - potentially from the Special Operations Task Force (SOTF) - take positions after fast-roping during a demo.




SSG "Methods of Entry" team during a dynamic entry demo.




SSG sniper and spotter in Pakistani Ghillie suits.

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## GHOST RIDER

SSG buddies at Map reading. Note the newly introduced embroidered epauletts on the officer on the left.




SSG Counter Terrorism (CT) operator during training. Note POF manufactured MP-5 SMG.




SSG Sniper with Steyr Mannlicher SSG69 rifle.




SSG operators demonstrating their skills at martial arts. The Special Operations School at Cherat is responsible for offering the Pakistan Unarmed Combat Course (PUCC) for the SSG operators.




SSG Officer on the wireless set.




CT demo by the SSG.




SSG commandoes during an exercise.

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## GHOST RIDER

Special Service Group (SSG) members under going training at Cherat.

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## GHOST RIDER

Army SSG personel working for U.N
















---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------







---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------

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## GHOST RIDER

During para training










---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 PM ----------

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## GHOST RIDER



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## Ssg1956

Thanks Ghostrider post some photos of ssgs providing vvip protection like this.


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## nomi007

u have also listen about 1 man army
its my favorite Brigadier Tariq Mahmood or Brigadier TM

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## Ssg1956

Ssg1956 said:


> Thanks Ghostrider post some photos of ssgs providing vvip protection like this.


 

As I am new here I mess up a bit till I fully learn how to use this forum.
In the above post I uploaded a picture of ssg standing guard near the parliament or president house with mushy in the background. but the picture didn't come up lol.


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## Ssg1956

If I am not wrong then I must have heard about Brigadier Tariq Mahmood. I think he was transporting SSGs to Pochar hot zones by Mi-17 during Malakand Operations.

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## GHOST RIDER

Brigadier T.M was the bomb

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## GHOST RIDER

Well guys did not find any gud picture of vvip guards but i can tell you this that these red caps are body guards of the army chief.i think

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## GHOST RIDER

Why is this Mr SSG so angry???????????

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## GHOST RIDER

Ssg1956 said:


> Hi guys, I am new at this forum and I am a big fan of Pakistan SSGs. I open this thread for all types of photo collection of SSGs, SSWs and SSNGs. Also VVIP security guards. Please don't upload photos of regular armies, Elite police force such as "No Fear" etc plus not trolling and comparisons.....


 
can we post pictures of pakistan navy marines?


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## BRICS

SSG = Special Services Group

SSGN = Navy

SSW = ? What does this stand for ?


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## GHOST RIDER

BRICS said:


> SSG = Special Services Group
> 
> SSGN = Navy
> 
> SSW = ? What does this stand for ?


 
SSW=Special Services Wing
its part of the airforce

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## AHMED85

i like sniper....

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## AHMED85

Nooo Need for Rope...After SSG..

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## GHOST RIDER

Now time for SSGN
A PN SSG(N) sniper aiming for a target during a training exercise





PN SSG(N) officer during a training exercise.




PN SSG(N) cadets being put through a basic training exercise.




PN SSG(N) operatives during a training exercise.




PN SSG(N) operative poses for the camera. 




SSG(N) personnel being deployed via a SeaKing during a training excercise. 




SSG(N) personnel carrying out Air Exfiltration training from an Area of Operations (AO) via a PUMA helicopter.


----------



## GHOST RIDER

SSG(N) operative showing him wearing the Night Vision Goggles (NVG) and carrying a MP-5 sub-machine gun.


----------



## GHOST RIDER

A SSG(N) team is a given a final briefing before boarding a Seaking Mk-45 helicopter.




Pakistan Navy SSG(N) personnel giving a free fall/sky diving demonstration.




SSG(N) personnel being picked up by a X-Craft (SX-756 Class) after a para drop.




SSG(N) personnel carrying out free fall para jumps during a training exercise.




SSG(N) personnel give a para drop demonstration 




Four indigenously constructed Midget Submarines are used by SSG(N) for various operational tasks.




SSG(N) personnel on a X-Craft (SX-756 Class) midget submarine during a training exercise. The X-Craft course that is taught to SSG(N) personnel has a 32 week duration out of which 12 weeks are spent on theory and 20 weeks on practical exercises.


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## GHOST RIDER




----------



## GHOST RIDER

---------- Post added at 09:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 PM ----------


----------



## GHOST RIDER

Army SSGs





---------- Post added at 09:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 PM ----------


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## GHOST RIDER




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## GHOST RIDER

SSGN


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## GHOST RIDER

SSG


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## GHOST RIDER

SSG during PNS Mehran operation

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## GHOST RIDER

dont forget these SSGs

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## DESERT FIGHTER

GHOST RIDER said:


> SSG


 
They are not SSG...... Regular troops of Pak army.

............
police




SSW




Unkown




SSG












SSN

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## GHOST RIDER

............
Unkown





These are anti narcoutics


----------



## GHOST RIDER

............
Unkown





These are anti narcoutics


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## GHOST RIDER

SSG





Commandos sniper team




Pakistan Army SSG Personnel with their Iranian counterparts.




Pak China YOUYI-III third Joint Exercise..

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## TOPGUN

When has Pakistan held any excercises with Iran? looking at on of the pic's above..


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## GHOST RIDER

TOPGUN said:


> When has Pakistan held any excercises with Iran? looking at on of the pic's above..


 
We train personel for Iran,and also somtimes hold excercise
we dont get to know about each and every excercise yar


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## gOtHmOG

Brig T M died way back in the late 1980s in a parachute accident during a demonstration in Cherat


Ssg1956 said:


> If I am not wrong then I must have heard about Brigadier Tariq Mahmood. I think he was transporting SSGs to Pochar hot zones by Mi-17 during Malakand Operations.


----------



## GHOST RIDER

gOtHmOG said:


> Brig T M died way back in the late 1980s in a parachute accident during a demonstration in Cherat


 
yup man
unlucky man,his chute failed to open


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## DESERT FIGHTER

GHOST RIDER said:


> Pakistan Army SSG Personnel with their Iranian counterparts.


 
Hes Egyptian.....Thts a Egyptian flag not iranian.....

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## GHOST RIDER

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Hes Egyptian.....Thts a Egyptian flag not iranian.....


 
thanx for correcting
my mistake
We also train personel for egypt


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## Xestan

Look like Egyptians!


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Pakistan Army Zinda Bad

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## krash

SSG:

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## krash

SSG in exercises with other special forces:

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## krash



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## krash

SSG in WOT:

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## krash

SSG in demonstrations and march pasts:

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## krash

SSG sniper school:














Anti Narcotics team:

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## EagleEyes

http://i40.tinypic.com/ofj8k.jpg

These are air force guys.


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## Roybot

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> They are not SSG...... Regular troops of Pak army.
> 
> ............
> police



Woah what police is this?


----------



## Kompromat

roy_gourav said:


> Woah what police is this?


 
Counter terrorism unit ( Federal police Islamabad )


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## saumyasupratik

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> They are not SSG...... Regular troops of Pak army.
> 
> ............
> police


Those are French Gendarmie GIGN, the guys with helmet visors and balaclavas.I don't think so they are Pakistan Police Swats.

GIGN









See the helmet with visor, shoulder pads, ballstic vest. balacalavas, MP5A5, P90TR, and the groin pad.

Anyways very nice photos specially like that of the SSW guys with P90's and also that of the snipers.Very nice keep up the good work.


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## Kompromat

^ We use the same gear as French.


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## saumyasupratik

^Another photo of the guys with same gear?Is there any?

Those can be RAID or GIGN anyone.


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## krash

saumyasupratik said:


> ^Another photo of the guys with same gear?Is there any?
> 
> Those can be RAID or GIGN anyone.


 
Yes I have two lemme fish them out of my pc. I even have a photo of this gear being displayed for export by Pakistan.


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## saumyasupratik

krash said:


> Yes I have two lemme fish them out of my pc. I even have a photo of this gear being displayed for export by Pakistan.


 
Okay waiting.Why aren't there any other photos of these guys anywhere else?

When was this taken, who are the suited guys and who is the lady?


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## Windjammer



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## Mujraparty

swat..?

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## Najam Khan

Great posts people...Sir WJammer your post was marvelous!


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## Kompromat




----------



## Kompromat

SSGN


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## Najam Khan

NSSG


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## Najam Khan

Pakistan Navy SSG(N) personnel giving a free fall/sky diving demonstration.


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## Najam Khan

Some more NSSG


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## krash

saumyasupratik said:


> Okay waiting.Why aren't there any other photos of these guys anywhere else?
> 
> When was this taken, who are the suited guys and who is the lady?


 
Still trying to find them. Dont have them in my pc. There was a video of our boys in this gear too trying to find that now. 

These guys are the capital police c.t team they are being trained by the french.
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## krash

SSG:

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## krash

SSG:

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## salvage

saumyasupratik said:


> Okay waiting.Why aren't there any other photos of these guys anywhere else?
> 
> When was this taken, who are the suited guys and who is the lady?


 
the one on the left is Inspector General of Police,Islamabad Syed Kalim Imam and the one on the right is Fedral Interior Minister Abdur Rehman Malik.

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## krash

SSG:

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## krash

SSG:

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## krash

SSG:

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## krash

SSW:






SSG:






ps: If videos arent allowed then please tell me and ill delete them.

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## salvage




----------



## krash

More SSG:






























This SSG beret is being auctioned by some french guy for 6000 euros:

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## krash

SG in VVIP protection role:














Major-General Amir Faisal Alvi killed in a terrorist attack after retirement:

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## Jango

krash said:


> SSG:


 
the fifth pic, you wont see that with the american soldiers and pakistani

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## Windjammer

Fantastic collection guys, keep up the works.!!!


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Marines






SSG

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## DESERT FIGHTER

SWAT





SSG





SSW





SSN

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## Roybot

krash said:


> SSG:


 
Aren't they protecting their own freedom and honour as well?


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## Windjammer

roy_gourav said:


> Aren't they protecting their own freedom and honour as well?


 
A Candle, which burns, lights up the darkness for others. !!!
See if you can work that out.

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## Roybot

Windjammer said:


> A Candle, which burns, lights up the darkness for others. !!!
> See if you can work that out.


 
Candles never yell out and tell everyone, what they do though. Anywho ignore me. Lets not derail this thread


----------



## ehsanm1

salvage said:


>


 
That looks like a French GIGN. Look at the batch at the left side of chest, showing white, red, and blue colors.


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

ehsanm1 said:


> That looks like a French GIGN. Look at the batch at the left side of chest, showing white, red, and blue colors.


 
look at post 81 pic 2 looks same (cap police)


----------



## ehsanm1

Yes, on post 81 - picture#2, that's a Pakistani security soldier with the same French gear, but the one I pointed out to was a specifically part of French GIGN.


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

ehsanm1 said:


> Yes, on post 81 - picture#2, that's a Pakistani security soldier with the same French gear, but the one I pointed out to was a specifically part of French GIGN.


 
oh ok ........


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

ehsanm1 said:


> That looks like a French GIGN. Look at the batch at the left side of chest, showing white, red, and blue colors.


 
Islamabad police...... pakistani guy m-4 ... islo police car....... ring any bells.


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## salvage

ehsanm1 said:


> That looks like a French GIGN. Look at the batch at the left side of chest, showing white, red, and blue colors.


 
this is islamabad police's elite forces' commando


----------



## ehsanm1

Come on guys read carefully what I said. The other previous picture that I quoted in is French GIGN, but the special force police in Islamabad police car is, of course, Pakistani.

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## krash

The father of it all Maj.General Mitha:






Captain Salman Farooq Lodhi:










The little ones:






Some T-shirts:










Roll of Honors:







(Courtesy Special Service Group (S.S.G) - Pakistan Army - Commandos on facebook)

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## krash

Welcome to the survival range:






Eagle's Nest, Chapri, Cherat:






SSG Musa coy frog men:






Notice the boots (I too have a pair of them!):






Notice the .50 cal sniper rifle (sadly I dont have one of those). Its not the Barrett nor is it the AS-50 can anyone please identify it?:






Para training:






In Swat (Notice their feet. They seem to be floating in air. The shadows arent meeting their feet on the ground. Ps maybe?):













(Courtesy Special Service Group (S.S.G) - Pakistan Army - Commandos on facebook)

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## krash

(Courtesy Special Service Group (S.S.G) - Pakistan Army - Commandos on facebook)











































(the captions could have been done better. At times they ruin the pic)

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## krash

ehsanm1 said:


> That looks like a French GIGN. Look at the batch at the left side of chest, showing white, red, and blue colors.


 
Nope the patch is of the Islo Police elite unit.

GIGN patches:


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## Ssg1956

Wow Guys thanks a lot I have never seen some of those sick photos. Keep them coming....


----------



## Ssg1956

[/IMG]


----------



## Ssg1956

[/IMG]


----------



## gOtHmOG

ehsanm1 said:


> Come on guys read carefully what I said. The other previous picture that I quoted in is French GIGN, but the special force police in Islamabad police car is, of course, Pakistani.


That's a warning light man


----------



## Kompromat

SSGN logo designed by Aeronaut.

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## Kompromat

This is not ssg i think.


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## krash

Aeronaut said:


> This is not ssg i think.


 
I think it is....this pic is from someones personal stash. The camo, the boots and the guns also match. But what made you think it isnt?


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## gOtHmOG

Aeronaut said:


> SSGN logo designed by Aeronaut.


Good job. Make the anchor more pronounced


----------



## Kompromat

krash said:


> I think it is....this pic is from someones personal stash. The camo, the boots and the guns also match. But what made you think it isnt?


 
hm maybe you are right. That clipped sniper rifle doesn't look familiar.

---------- Post added at 03:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 AM ----------




gOtHmOG said:


> Good job. Make the anchor more pronounced


 
Yara i have done this work in microsoft Paint , you know how hard it is to get results


----------



## krash

Aeronaut said:


> hm maybe you are right. That clipped sniper rifle doesn't look familiar.




True but then again we do know that they get what ever they wish for and many times we only get to know of their equipment through photos exactly like these.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Why are the SSG- elite military professionals used as VVIP protection on a constant basis? Why can't a federal/civilian force be set up and trained (possibly) by the SSG initially? This extra training can't help in a war (their primary responsibility) Surely this is just a drain on the SSG's resources and a distracting from their _real_ work? Just look at US and India they have good SFs but they have dedicated federal protection forces (USSS and SPG respectively) who are incredible at their very niche role.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> Why are the SSG- elite military professionals used as VVIP protection on a constant basis? Why can't a federal/civilian force be set up and trained (possibly) by the SSG initially? This extra training can't help in a war (their primary responsibility) Surely this is just a drain on the SSG's resources and a distracting from their _real_ work? Just look at US and India they have good SFs but they have dedicated federal protection forces (USSS and SPG respectively) who are incredible at their very niche role.


 
They are not used as VVIP protection.......Only the COAS is provided security by a few SSGs.


----------



## American Pakistani

Nice pictures, thanks for sharing.


----------



## SparklingCrescent



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## SparklingCrescent

SSG with Canadian troops or?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

SparklingCrescent said:


> SSG with Canadian troops or?


 
Yeah..... also post 109... last 2 pics r SSN.


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## krash

SparklingCrescent said:


> SSG with Canadian troops or?


 
And these are brits.


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## GHOST RIDER

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> ............
> police


 
So are these Pakistani or FrencH????????/

---------- Post added at 03:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 PM ----------

SSG ready for football


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

GHOST RIDER said:


> So are these Pakistani or FrencH????????/
> 
> ---------- Post added at 03:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 PM ----------
> 
> SSG ready for football


 i m nt 100% but the gear is manufactured in pak i have seen its display some where


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## arslan_treen

SparklingCrescent said:


> SSG with Canadian troops or?


The tall bearded fella is Commando Muhmmad Amjad Razzaq Shaheed , he embraced Shadat In Pns mehran .

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## Jungibaaz

SparklingCrescent said:


> SSG with Canadian troops or?


 
First ones may be US.
The second pic is probably with royal marines (Britain)


----------



## GHOST RIDER

Jungibaaz said:


> First ones may be US.
> The second pic is probably with royal marines (Britain)


 
yup second are british military personel


----------



## GHOST RIDER

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> i m nt 100% but the gear is manufactured in pak i have seen its display some where


 
so those those helmets,pads and tactical vest,that is being manufactured in pak,seriously??????????


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

GHOST RIDER said:


> so those those helmets,pads and tactical vest,that is being manufactured in pak,seriously??????????


 
the helmets yes but dont know abt vest


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## GHOST RIDER

well the hemets are pretty awsome

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## krash

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> the helmets yes but dont know abt vest


 
Vests are also being manufactured here. But most of the front line troops currently deployed in the WOT are using american made vests. Apparently theres a problem with our vests. The synthetic fiber that is used in making the pockets for the plates gets worn out too quickly when used heavily and too roughly, or so iv heard.

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## ghazi52

krash said:


> I think it is....this pic is from someones personal stash. The camo, the boots and the guns also match. But what made you think it isnt?


 Anti Narcotics of Pakistan - Baluchistan


----------



## Abingdonboy

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Yeah..... also post 109... last 2 pics r SSN.


 
These are USMC- uniform and, more importantly- it says "US MARINES" on their left-hand breasts!

+ it strikes me these SFs are FAR to willing to have pics taken of them and don't seem to cover their faces at all. I would have thought that in Pakistan especially-given current state of affairs, they would have done this rigourrusly as other SFs in the world do.


----------



## SparklingCrescent

arslan_treen said:


> The tall bearded fella is Commando Muhmmad Amjad Razzaq Shaheed , he embraced Shadat In Pns mehran .



ooo.  . I did not know.. Inna lillahi wa Inna Ilaihi Rajiooon.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> These are USMC- uniform and, more importantly- it says "US MARINES" on their left-hand breasts!
> 
> + it strikes me these SFs are FAR to willing to have pics taken of them and don't seem to cover their faces at all. I would have thought that in Pakistan especially-given current state of affairs, they would have done this rigourrusly as other SFs in the world do.


 
yeah sure....... the guys in SSG uniform r americans.......... instead of ranting use ur eyes!

Also most of these pics r frm sombdys personal stash........... n not official pics!

unlike indian forces where u have a whole thread with a billion pics!


@the fallen commando RIP.......Inna lillahi wa Inna Ilaihi Rajiooon. ....... May God give strengh n patience to his frnds n family n grant him a high place in heaven.......ameen.

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## krash

Why are you guyz so miserly when it comes to pressing 'thanks'? Bet Iv posted many pics you hadnt ever seen

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## GHOST RIDER

krash said:


> Why are you guyz so miserly when it comes to pressing 'thanks'? Bet Iv posted many pics you hadnt ever seen


 
Wel i got some thanks


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

krash said:


> Vests are also being manufactured here. But most of the front line troops currently deployed in the WOT are using american made vests. Apparently theres a problem with our vests. The synthetic fiber that is used in making the pockets for the plates gets worn out too quickly when used heavily and too roughly, or so iv heard.


 
yes but have u seen those specific vests in the pic?


----------



## GHOST RIDER

Amjad Razzaq Shaheed

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## krash

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> yes but have u seen those specific vests in the pic?


 
Dont know cause they dont look very different from the imported ones but I have seen them in person. Here is one being produced by ZA Engineering Works:






Another one by Lyra (Private) Limited:











There are more.

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## S-A-B-E-R->

^^can u show all the pics u have of pakistani BPVs 
thnx


----------



## krash

GHOST RIDER said:


> So are these Pakistani or FrencH????????/




Yes they are Pakistani, if you can take my word for it.



S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> ^^can u show all the pics u have of pakistani BPVs
> thnx


 
The following is the standard for our troops:

* Description*

The Advanced Composites Research Center at Air Weapons Complex has carried out extensive research on bullet-proof materials. Using indigenous technology, AWC has developed lightweight composite Bullet-proof Jackets and Helmets that provide exceptional battlefield protection. At the same time, the unique design features facilitate body and head movement while aiming, crawling and running.
The Bullet-proof Jackets and Helmets developed by AWC provide protection against ammunition according to NIG Standard 0101.03.

*Bullet-Proof Helmet (Level III A)*

Specific layers of biaxial woven kevlar fabric have been integrated in polymeric resin. The fabric/resin has been cured in a specific mould under high temperature and pressure for specific time duration. After de-molding, trimming and painting, webbing is attached to the Helmet.

*Bullet-Proof Jacket (Level III A & Level III)*

Specific layers of biaxial woven kevlar fabric have been stitched in diamond pattern. The trauma pack is an integral part of the ballistic insert. The assembly is stitched in water/moisture-resistant black plastic to maintain its ballistic properties. This effectively stops the 9mm bullet. The Jacket can stop the 7.62mm bullet after insertion of front and back laminated ceramic plate. The outer cover is made of washable 100% cotton camouflage twill.

*advantages of kevlar fabric*

* High tensile strength/modules
* High toughness
* Light weight
* Excellent retention of strength at elevated temperatures
* High thermal stability
* Self extinguishing
* Cut resistant
* Good chemical resistance
*
test firing*

*Bullet-Proof Helmet*






The Helmet was fired at from a distance of 5m by 9mm caliber sub-machine gun ammunition at ballistic test facilities of Air Weapons Complex and Inspectorate of Armaments, Rawalpindi, in accordance with NIJ standard 0101.01. The Helmet stopped the bullet effectively. The average trauma effect was found to be within limits. The Helmet was also tested under wet conditions. The wet tests did not deteriorate the results.

*Bullet-Proof Jacket*






The Jacket was fired at from a distance of 5m by 9mm and 7.62mm caliber ammunition at ballistic test facilities of Air Weapons Complex and Inspectorate of Armaments, Rawalpindi, in accordance with NIJ standard 0101.01. The Jacket stopped both types of bullets effectively with nominal trauma effect.

salient features

* Bullet-Proof Helmet*

* Protection Level III A (against 9mm ammunition)
* Material Kevlar
* Resin Material Polymeric
* Color Optional
* Webbing Cotton
* Ballistic Visor Optional
* Weight 1.4 Kg

*Bullet-Proof Jacket*

* Protection Level 
Without Ceramic plate III A (against 9mm ammunition)
With Ceramic plate III(against7.62mm ammunition)
* Material Kevlar
* Trauma Pack Polymeric
* Ballistic Insert Laminated Ceramic
* Outer Cover Camouflage Khaki Twill
* Collars Integrated
* Pelvic Flaps Optional
* Weight 2.8 Kg

(Courtesy Wilco and Sir Champ)



another one (BVP-37):







This one is made by Capital Services System:






These are the ones I could find for now. Plus lets not further derail the thread bro. 

ps: an Interesting thing I just read. The army uniforms are soon going to be changed with new gadgets coming in as well. Check what Santro and Xeric had to say here: http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-forces/114555-pak-army-uniform.html

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## GHOST RIDER

saumyasupratik said:


> Okay waiting.Why aren't there any other photos of these guys anywhere else?
> 
> When was this taken, who are the suited guys and who is the lady?


 
One suited guy in the left side of the lady is our interriour minister Rehman malik


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## Kompromat




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## osamaziadxb

very cool thread


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## saumyasupratik

Aeronaut said:


>


Funny this pic also comes in many National Security Guards Photo Albums in many forums.


----------



## Ahmad Abdullah Ravian

O my God , very exiting Pictures ,Thanks to all Members 
Well if we are not in SSG , we must at least think and act like SSG Commandos (I think you understand my view)
The Devotion ,Discipline, Capability, Courage, Self-Control,Activeness,Patriotism,...etc must be part of a personality of every Young of PAKISTAN


----------



## salvage

*General Gul Hassan Khan congratulating SSG commandos on the successful accomplishment of raid behind indian lines*







Gul Hassan Khan in 1948 as Adjutant Probyn&#8217;s Horse

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## S-A-B-E-R->

saumyasupratik said:


> Funny this pic also comes in many National Security Guards Photo Albums in many forums.


 
i have seen this pic on a wall in when i was on Faseel-e-Jaan Se Aagay promo and it was by ISPR without the sologan so i think its pakistani


----------



## krash

Guys just landed on hundreds of never before seen SSG pics. Waiting for the permission of the person who took them to upload here.

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## GHOST RIDER

sorry but had to post this some where


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## pilot-amateur

and the video is?


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## Abingdonboy

Can someone tell why the SSG us both the Steyr Aug and the M4? When is one used over the other?


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## Rafi

Abingdonboy said:


> Can someone tell why the SSG us both the Steyr Aug and the M4? When is one used over the other?


 
Pakistani Special Forces use a wide range of weapons, the operators decide themselves what weapons to use, according the mission.


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## soul hacker

Chinese Female Soldier Giving Water to Pakistani Soldier

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## GHOST RIDER

soul hacker said:


> Chinese Female Soldier Giving Water to Pakistani Soldier


 
Pakistani soldier giving water to Chinese

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## GHOST RIDER

Pak-China friend ship T-shirts


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## krash

Sorry for the delay guys here are the pics I promised. Please DO NOT shy away from clicking the thanks button..... 

ps: They are especially for you GHOST RIDER. 

Courtesy: Special Service Group (S.S.G) - Pakistan Army - Commandos


*Patches, Badges and Wings:*

Below 50 jumps SSG commando wing:






Above 50 jumps SSG commando wing:






Sky Diver's patch:






Air Borne para wing:






Karate Do badge:






Unarmed combateer's patch:






Para Gliding wing:

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## krash

Gliding wing:






Koh Pema Patch:






Frog-Man patch:






SSG patch:






Notice the red 'Rigger' wing. Rigger is one who is a qualified sky diver and is also qualified to pack his parachute:






Patches, Wings and Crowns for a Captain:

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## DESERT FIGHTER

hey krash these r not SSG,SSN or SSW badges these all depend upon courses.



GHOST RIDER said:


>


 
Some really old pictures..........

Anyways which uniform/service is this guy frm?


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## krash

*Musa Kaleemullah (The frogmen):*

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## krash

*Mountain Warfare Training:
*

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## krash



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## Bilal Akhtar

no match boys

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## krash



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## krash



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## krash



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## krash



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## krash

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> hey krash these r not SSG,SSN or SSW badges these all depend upon courses.
> 
> 
> 
> Some really old pictures..........
> 
> Anyways which uniform/service is this guy frm?


 
Yes sir you are correct except for the SSG patch all the rest arent exclusive to the SSG. I just thought Id start off with the patches badges and wings which the SSG too wear.

And the guy im guessing is not from the SSG/SSGN/SSW. The beret doesnt fit. Nor does the patch on his arm. Maybe someone from the paramilitaries?


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## krash

*Capt Zafar Abbasi Shaheed:*

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## krash

*Random SSG pics:*

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## krash



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## krash

Guess who is leading the prayers........Maj.Gen Farrukh Bashir GOC:

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## krash



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## krash



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## krash



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## krash



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## krash



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## DESERT FIGHTER

i have posted these pics before bro,.,,,

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## krash



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## krash

*More random SSG:*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

dude some of these pics have been posted before.




krash said:


> *More random SSG:*




Army not SSG.

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## krash



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## krash



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## krash



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## krash



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## krash



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## krash



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## krash



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## krash



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## krash



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## krash

This will be it for today. Im sorry for any repeats or re-posts. Hope you like them.

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## krash

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> i have posted these pics before bro,.,,,


 
Sorry sir didnt remember seeing them in this thread. Plus was and still am half asleep. Just uploaded all that I had. But I think. most of them havent ever been uploaded before. But still my apologies for the repeats.


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## GHOST RIDER

Great Pictures Krash enjoyed them
Thanks for uploading

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## Bilal Akhtar

yeah man they were amazing

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## Bilal Akhtar

musa kaleemullah frogmans painting army mess

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## Bilal Akhtar



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## Bilal Akhtar



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## Bilal Akhtar



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## Najam Khan

Great photo collection Krash, looks like either these pics are from SSG archives or somebody has invested a lot of time in field, along with a good camer too

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## krash

NAjAM Khan said:


> Great photo collection Krash, looks like either these pics are from SSG archives or somebody has invested a lot of time in field, along with a good camer too


 
Yup its the later. Hes currently serving in the SSG and he likes taking photos. Lucky for us

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## Ssg1956

Thanks guys! You all are ******* hero for uploading such beautiful photos! I am really great fan of Pakistan Commandos!

The good thing is at regular army are exchanging experiences with commandos!


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## untitled

Great pics .......
How come members of the British, Australian, NZ SAS, US Seal team 6 never show faces in public.... how come they are blanked out.
Are they involved in illegal activities ?


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## Imran Khan

wow great shots after long times we got few new images great say to him thanks alot from me sir najam .


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## MM_Haider

pics are awesome .. keep them coming..

i wonder if anyone can share the success stories SSG holds under their belt.. feeling more patriotic already!


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## fd24

super pics. keep them coming.


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## krash

Imran Khan said:


> wow great shots after long times we got few new images great say to him thanks alot from me sir najam .


 
Sir Imran I believe I posted the pics

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## muse

Jihadi spirit --- Most all other armies train to kill the enemy and live -- Pakistan army has much in common, ideologically, with the Islamist enemy:

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## untitled

muse said:


> Jihadi spirit ---




And now you have a problem with Jihad too.


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## VCheng

muse said:


> Jihadi spirit --- Most all other armies train to kill the enemy and live -- Pakistan army has much in common, ideologically, with the Islamist enemy:




_
"No bas-tard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bas-tard die for his country."_ George S. Patton

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## Imran Khan

krash said:


> Sir Imran I believe I posted the pics


 

ohhhhh i am so sorry yaar i am old man can not see properly please thank to you dear wait i give you 10 more on posts

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## Irfan Baloch

muse said:


> Jihadi spirit --- Most all other armies train to kill the enemy and live -- Pakistan army has much in common, ideologically, with the Islamist enemy:


 
it is plain stupid and totally destroys the reason to train and spend tax payers money to become a defender. If simply death is desired in case of war then why go through the whole trouble of becoming a soldier? Just go and taunt the enemy without weapon and stand in front of him so that he can easily take a head shot.

The concept should have been not to fear the enemy and against all odds perform a dangerous task and fulfil the mission, even if there is a risk of death and if death does come it shouldn&#8217;t be at the expense of the mission but it should mean the remaining comrades finish off the job and attain victory. Now that death is a sacrifice where as the dim witted statements like this on the board are plain stupid and a suicide. That too coming from special forces is a farce. This mindset needs to be quashed altogether should be an absolute NO NO for special forces.

&#8220;so you want to die for your country eh? You want to become a shaheed? And actually help the enemy with his mission? We don&#8217;t really need your sort of officers who is willing to die and leave people under his command in disarray&#8221; 
The words of the PMA platoon commander to a friend of mine.

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## Irfan Baloch

GHOST RIDER said:


> Why is this Mr SSG so angry???????????


 
I didnt know Sean Connery was in SSGN

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## untitled

VCheng said:


> _
> "No bas-tard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bas-tard die for his country."_ George S. Patton



So Admiral Nelson, Major General Wolfe were one the above ......
As for General Patton he too was killed while cleaning up the mess after the war in Europe was over


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## Imran Khan

Irfan Baloch said:


> I didnt know Sean Connery was in SSGN


 
lolz he is looks like him but not he hahaha


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## muse

Irfan Baloch said:


> it is plain stupid and totally destroys the reason to train and spend tax payers money to become a defender. If simply death is desired in case of war then why go through the whole trouble of becoming a soldier? Just go and taunt the enemy without weapon and stand in front of him so that he can easily take a head shot.
> 
> The concept should have been not to fear the enemy and against all odds perform a dangerous task and fulfil the mission, even if there is a risk of death and if death does come it shouldnt be at the expense of the mission but it should mean the remaining comrades finish off the job and attain victory. Now that death is a sacrifice where as the dim witted statements like this on the board are plain stupid and a suicide. That too coming from special forces is a farce. This mindset needs to be quashed altogether should be an absolute NO NO for special forces.
> 
> so you want to die for your country eh? You want to become a shaheed? And actually help the enemy with his mission? We dont really need your sort of officers who is willing to die and leave people under his command in disarray
> The words of the PMA platoon commander to a friend of mine.


 

Irfan, what's this? Don't tell me you are beginning to see why we offer the criticism we do? But be careful, don't find yourself in agreement with the likes of us, you risk much, but not conscience nor patriotism.
When we highlight why that Army motto is a problem, we were generally misunderstood - we seek an army that is concerned with killing the enemy and surviviing to kill even more enemies, not concerned with confession or sectarian ideals.

See, it's not about fear - You are are always afraid, trust that - the point is that the training is supposed to take over, not freaking suicide, but training - and that training is supposed to be all about killing the enemy and coming back to your wife, children, neighbors, your comrades...not fascination with seeking your own death.

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## Irfan Baloch

why the differentiation? There is only us .. Including you and I
I respect what you say and I also have problem with some slogans in the army but its the interpretation which is causing this issue. I remember the episode of W.A.S on DAWN where a young caption was saying his motto was to die in the battle to become a shaheed. and I couldnt help but cringe and say to the screen, tell me my dear Caption, how on earth will your death help in stopping the enemy?
But totally disregarding religious slogan is not essential either. We have the verses where the belivers are advised to be prepared and ready to instill fear in the enemy and stop it in its tracks. Clearly, simply giving up your life is no way of intimidating the enemy is it? J
So my take is first to wrestle away the sole claim of Islam from the Islamists and show them that the soldiers of Pakistan are better Muslims and better fighters than them. And then train our army men to kill and destroy the enemy and even quote the Islamic references of quelling the fitna.

lets leave this discussion for some other thread 
here is a picture to keep my post relevant

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## muse

> it&#8217;s the interpretation which is causing this issue




Irfan

See, once again, Awaal and Ahir, it the divisive quality of Islamism in Pakistan that we end up with.

The army's job is not to be concerned about who is a Muslim or what is a Muslim - it's job is to kill the enemies the government tells them to kill -- but this, even this, has to be filtered through the lens of islamism - maybe you can now see how dangerous this idea of Islamism is - because sooner or later the idea will be confronted from within - what then, crack up the institution? the society?




> my take is first to wrestle away the sole claim of Islam from the Islamists and show them that the soldiers of Pakistan are better Muslims and better fighters than them. And then train our army men to kill and destroy the enemy and even quote the Islamic references of quelling the fitna.


Is it really necessary to play with this fire? Is it responsible to do this?

So, out Islam the Islamist??? Before we had islamist privateers now we should have an army of Islamists? and that's a cure??

You, like others can't seem to get your head around the difference between Muslim and islamist - and that's Ok, but Pakistan won't survive that confusion, at least not the Pakistan that is the birthright of those of US for whom the Quaid e Azam is the guiding light.

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## blain2

GHOST RIDER said:


> SSG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Commandos sniper team
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan Army SSG Personnel with their Iranian counterparts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pak China YOUYI-III third Joint Exercise..


 
The above is not a pic with the Iranians. Rather it was with the Egyptian SF during Exercise Brightstar.

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## blain2

Aeronaut said:


>


 
Second one is not SSG. It is Indian CT operator. SSG do not use PSG-1 variants (its a semi-auto sniper rifle).


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## Imran Khan

its not Iranian pic but its Egyptian AL-SAIQA team pic taken at bright star exercise in Egypt were SSGN was participate and 6 naval mirages too .


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## Irfan Baloch

muse said:


> Irfan
> 
> See, once again, Awaal and Ahir, it the divisive quality of Islamism in Pakistan that we end up with.
> 
> The army's job is not to be concerned about who is a Muslim or what is a Muslim - it's job is to kill the enemies the government tells them to kill -- but this, even this, has to be filtered through the lens of islamism - maybe you can now see how dangerous this idea of Islamism is - because sooner or later the idea will be confronted from within - what then, crack up the institution? the society?




point taken,



> Is it really necessary to play with this fire? Is it responsible to do this?



not necessarily, what really riles the fundos is when mere mortals like myself prove them wrong. Like beating them in their own game.



> So, out Islam the Islamist??? Before we had islamist privateers now we should have an army of Islamists? and that's a cure??



yet again, point taken and you got me worried. this is possible



> You, like others can't seem to get your head around the difference between Muslim and islamist - and that's Ok,


on the contrary, I very much do sir, and thats why I am of the view that religion shouldnt be completely shunned and left to the mercy of these uneducated detached from reality sadist goons .

this is one of my personal goal to distinguish Islamists with an ordinary Muslim



> but Pakistan won't survive that confusion, at least not the Pakistan that is the birthright of those of US for whom the Quaid e Azam is the guiding light.



God forbid that wont happen. the fundos will lick their wounds.


----------



## Pak1Samurai

ehsanm1 said:


> That looks like a French GIGN. Look at the batch at the left side of chest, showing white, red, and blue colors.





salvage said:


>




its also pakistan police cuz in franch dont use this type of car this is pakistani police and the badge is not france flag colour but is it police logo red blue

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## Imran Khan

experts what you say in many images i can see afghan guys am i right ?


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## Pak1Samurai

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> They are not SSG...... Regular troops of Pak army.
> 
> ............
> police
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they are Pakistani police that trained by frenchs


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## Irfan Baloch

Pak1Samurai said:


> Pakistani Nationalist said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are not SSG...... Regular troops of Pak army.
> 
> ............
> police
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they are Pakistani police that trained by frenchs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what a waste of time and money
> 
> all these commandos end up protecting the VIPs only rather than countering terrorists from attacking public places and actually going after them.
> whenever there is a new batch of special police passing out, the guys are whisked away by the politicians for their personal security
Click to expand...


----------



## Imran Khan

Irfan Baloch said:


> Pak1Samurai said:
> 
> 
> 
> what a waste of time and money
> 
> all these commandos end up protecting the VIPs only rather than countering terrorists from attacking public places and actually going after them.
> whenever there is a new batch of special police passing out, the guys are whisked away by the politicians for their personal security
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sir jee you missed it gov send them for protection of VVIP .they never send them for us we are priceless as always rehman was there to receive his men and gift to zardari gellani and 2 for him .lolz
Click to expand...

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## Ssg1956

No Offence guys! This thread was made for photo collections but not for argument or comparison or other shits etc.

Detail about photo and stories of SSGs, SSGNs and SSWs are accepted but other shits are not.

*PLEASE STICK TO TOPIC AND DON'T RUIN THE THREAD AS THERE ARE AMAZING PHOTOS BEING COLLECTED IN THIS THREAD*


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## GHOST RIDER

Mods should make it sticky as this thread is the photo album of our special forces


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> hey krash these r not SSG,SSN or SSW badges these all depend upon courses.
> 
> 
> 
> Some really old pictures..........
> 
> Anyways which uniform/service is this guy frm?


 ill say BAD *** company a sniper and M4 now where is ur rambo where is he now?


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## Irfan Baloch

*SSGN, on antipirate training mision*

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## AHMED85

I Like All Peoples in Army who are loyal with Pakistan beside some of my friends.. ets......


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## AHMED85

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> ill say BAD *** company a sniper and M4 now where is ur rambo where is he now?


 
Dont even go on body such as Rambo.......


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

AHMED85 said:


> Dont even go on body such as Rambo.......


 
dont need that he got a sniper hee shoot rambo frm 800m


----------



## Jango

Pak1Samurai said:


> Pakistani Nationalist said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are not SSG...... Regular troops of Pak army.
> 
> ............
> police
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they are Pakistani police that trained by frenchs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which police, ICT was reportedly being trained by french a couple of months back, is this the product??,,,,and they have P-90!!!,,,what a shame they will only be for the stooge rehman malik
Click to expand...

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## krash

GHOST RIDER said:


> Mods should make it sticky as this thread is the photo album of our special forces


 
I second that. This thread should be made into a sticky and not allowed to disappear in time. These pictures will always be sort after. This 'album', as GHOST RIDER rightly put it, will always be of relevance.

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## soul hacker



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## blain2

muse said:


> Jihadi spirit --- Most all other armies train to kill the enemy and live -- Pakistan army has much in common, ideologically, with the Islamist enemy:


 
Its a very old SSG slogan. Certainly from the days before Zia's Islamization efforts set in. HQ, SSQ would print the Eid cards by the hundreds to send to former SSG officers and others with this quote on a camouflaged Eid card.

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## blain2

VCheng said:


> _
> "No bas-tard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bas-tard die for his country."_ George S. Patton


 
Not entirely true. Some will eventually have to make the ultimate sacrifice to pave the way for others to win. This is a fact of war. Unless you go and lay yourself down like an idiot in front of the enemy, the famous saying of Gen Patton has more to do with fighting smart. No Army, certainly not the PA, trains its men and officers to waste themselves. Yet the idea of self-sacrifice is encouraged as and when required. Its not an easy thing by any measure to lay your life down for an idea.

While you see slogans like the one above, you also see logical one like "sweat saves blood, blood saves life, brain saves both."

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## VCheng

blain2 said:


> Not entirely true. Some will eventually have to make the ultimate sacrifice to pave the way for others to win. This is a fact of war. Unless you go and lay yourself down like an idiot in front of the enemy, *the famous saying of Gen Patton has more to do with fighting smart.* No Army, certainly not the PA, trains its men and officers to waste themselves. Yet the idea of self-sacrifice is encouraged as and when required. Its not an easy thing by any measure to lay your life down for an idea.
> 
> While you see slogans like the one above, you also see logical one like "sweat saves blood, blood saves life, brain saves both."




Thank you, the bolded part is exactly what I had in mind when I quoted Gen. Patton.


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## blain2

muse said:


> Irfan, what's this? Don't tell me you are beginning to see why we offer the criticism we do? But be careful, don't find yourself in agreement with the likes of us, you risk much, but not conscience nor patriotism.
> When we highlight why that Army motto is a problem, we were generally misunderstood - we seek an army that is concerned with killing the enemy and surviviing to kill even more enemies, not concerned with confession or sectarian ideals.
> 
> See, it's not about fear - You are are always afraid, trust that - the point is that the training is supposed to take over, not freaking suicide, but training - and that training is supposed to be all about killing the enemy and coming back to your wife, children, neighbors, your comrades...not fascination with seeking your own death.


 
Muse, 

Training is one aspect, keeping the morale of the troops up is another. In the most secular days of Pakistan (50s and 60s), we went to war with the battle cry of Allahu-akbar. This was because this is how the nation and the Army had always been oriented.

Yes some people are emotional and make take this notion too far, but at the end of the day, the Army is being trained to fight and win a war against a much bigger adversary. What is the equalizer then? Its the morale. How do you raise the morale? By training hard and having a nationalistic/Islamic motivation for the officers and troops.

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## blain2

All military outfits have their own unique ways of upping morale using symbolism or indoctrinating themselves to a code etc. There are many who have a firm belief to not leave a fallen comrade behind. While it is absolutely noble to do so, it is also realistically an illogical military tactic (I understand the issues around not wanting to leave your dead behind for propaganda or desecration etc.), yet armies do it and find that by doing so their morale is raised.

On our end, we have this idea of embracing a fact of life, which is death and that in a profession like the military, one's life would be endangered and some level of self-sacrifice has to be accepted and embraced.

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## Jango

The concept of dying for religion or country in Pakistan, and specifically in the military is that go in the war without an fear, fear of what one might say, fear of being shot and dead. That is what the morale boosting is for . To not be afraid of death, because it is for a noble cause, and put in an equal effort. It does not mean to go in front of the enemy like a moron and get yourself killed. Some people do misinterpret it.


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## krash

Guys lets please keep this thread to pics only discussions can be done else where.


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## blain2

varigeo said:


> Great pics .......
> How come members of the British, Australian, NZ SAS, US Seal team 6 never show faces in public.... how come they are blanked out.
> Are they involved in illegal activities ?


 
That was the case with the SSG too and it changed in the 90s because of SSG being used more and more in plain public view. There are still teams within the SSG who typically do not allow pictures to be published. In all honesty, anyone within the SSG would frown upon these pictures being posted on public boards, but the reality is that the Internet has made this very difficult.


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## Jango

OK, just clearing up an issue.


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## blain2

Bilal Akhtar said:


> musa kaleemullah frogmans painting army mess


 
This is actually a portrait of the Counter-Terrorism operators associated with Zarrar ATC.


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## Jango

blain2 said:


> That was the case with the SSG too and it changed in the 90s because of SSG being used more and more in plain public view. There are still teams within the SSG who typically do not allow pictures to be published. In all honesty, anyone within the SSG would frown upon these pictures being posted on public boards, but the reality is that the Internet has made this very difficult.


 
The PNS mehran siege, you could clearly see trucks of SSG in the morning, with M-4 and hats going into the facility.


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## blain2

The biggest joke is using highly trained SSG operators to protect the hides of the likes of AZ and others. Nothing kills the
morale of professional troops, trained to extremely high standards to be wasting their time on useless things like this.
The country's civil leadership should have a dedicated CP unit, highly trained in their role so the SSG can be withdrawn and allowed to stay out of the circus.

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## Bharat Ratna

even though im indian im really impressed by the slogan "WE DESIRE DEATH MORE ARDENTLY THAN YOU DESIRE LIFE"
we have cases of our soldiers in siachen having the same spirit as pak army ssg but im really say hats off to pak army ssg they have done wonderful job in conquering the fear of death...im just curious what actually in training of ssg induces this spirit can someone answer me..thankyou

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## Xestan

Bharat Ratna said:


> even though im indian im really impressed by the slogan "WE DESIRE DEATH MORE ARDENTLY THAN YOU DESIRE LIFE"
> we have cases of our soldiers in siachen having the same spirit as pak army ssg but im really say hats off to pak army ssg they have done wonderful job in conquering the fear of death...*im just curious what actually in training of ssg induces this spirit can someone answer me*..thankyou


 
Well, as far as I have known some SSG guys, they are quite religious in their own way, the spirit of sacrificing life for the motherland mostly comes from the idea of _Shahadat_, sacrificing one's life for Islam, a Islamic state, etc. Training obviously is a vital part but I think this idea more comes form the religion and from their love towards their country, that's natural in Pakistan Army, actually.

One incident I remember, in the GHQ attacks in 2009, Hostage scenario was faced by the SSG, there was a problem in initiating the operation as there were suicide bombers present in the same room in which hostages were kept, it was clear that the operation can't go on without giving some sacrifices, 2 SSG guys volunteered for that job, both of them were martyred but they achieved their target which was getting terrorist confused and getting their attention towards them, while other commandos rushed in and took out the bombers and then other terrorists.

Correct me Blain2, if I'm wrong about the incident, anyways, I hope others can explain you too, about your question Bharat Ratna.

btw,  to

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## krash

Bharat Ratna said:


> even though im indian im really impressed by the slogan "WE DESIRE DEATH MORE ARDENTLY THAN YOU DESIRE LIFE"
> we have cases of our soldiers in siachen having the same spirit as pak army ssg but im really say hats off to pak army ssg they have done wonderful job in conquering the fear of death...im just curious what actually in training of ssg induces this spirit can someone answer me..thankyou



Ill add a little to what Xestan has said:

This concept is not new. Almost all the warrior nations in legends of old had this concept. The Spartans were one people who 'desired death more ardently than life'. Their warriors prayed before a battle that they be slain in a manner and by a warrior worthy of them. The Samurai too were in thirst of an honorable death on the battle field. The Vikings were another lot who vehemently believed that the most honorable death was one attained on the battle field fighting against ones enemies. They even went as far as believing that the only people who would enter Valhalla (heaven) would be the ones who would die while fighting on the battle field. Everyone else would go to hell. Muslim soldiers in history have also displayed this desire quite passionately. Khalid-bin-Walid, while on his deathbed, expressed his dissatisfaction at not having died in battle while fighting in the name of Allah. This is not to say that what they desire going into battle is death but instead an honorable death, a fall worthy of them, a fall while fighting for their cause. Some of our members took the slogan quite literally i.e. going into battle so as to loose ones life in other words suicidal tendencies. But this interpretation would be very simplistic and quite unfair. This slogan does not just demand death but a death worthy of a warrior and *worthy of his cause*, in the line of duty. Simply put it points to a desire to die while fighting with all ones might *when the cause that one is fighting for demands it*. This is also the concept behind 'Shahadat'. Suicidal actions are barred, correction abhorred in this idea. This concept of an 'honorable death befitting a warrior' has long been romanticized in song and poetry. In stories of old this desire is what raises a soldier from a mere human to a warrior of legends. It instills in the soldier the ideal to fight against his enemies without fear or intimidation and if *the situation demands* lay his life down, intentionally or otherwise, for his cause not just without fear but with fervor. 

Us being Muslims 'Shahadat' is the ultimate manner in which to die. And hence, ideally, every Muslim soldier desires it. Thus the slogan of the SSG. The whole PA has slogans of such sort. I for one admire them with great awe and respect.

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## MadDog

This was actually a quote of Khalid Bin Waleed (R), a companion of Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and a General who fought both the Roman/Byzantine and Persian Empires and defeated both in numerous battles despite being militarily inferior. 

*Here is the actual letter which he (R) wrote to Persian Kings/nobles 

" In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. From Khalid ibn Walid to the kings of Persia.
Praise be to Allah who has disrupted your system and thwarted your designs. And if He had not done so it would have been worse for you. Submit to our orders and we shall leave you and your land in peace; else you shall suffer subjugation at the hands of a people who love death as you love life."*

Pakistan named its Main Battle Tank Al-Khalid after him (R) and Khalid Bin Waleed (R) was given the title of Saifullah (Sword of Allah) by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) himself during His (PBUH)'s lifetime. 

Hope this info helps !!!!

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## MadDog

Another famous quote about him by a Byzantine priest is ;

*"Is the standard of this army a black one? Is the commander of this army a tall, powerfully built, broad shouldered man with a large beard and a few pock marks on his face? Then beware of fighting this army." Byzantine priest. (633 A.D)*

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## Rao Sahab

nice pics....


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## Ssg1956

Abhey yaar ! I am very disappointed by some guys here. I made this thread for photo collection but now see there is 2+ pages of BS. Guys it is enough to talk about slogan, religions, publicity of military personal, arguments and other shits etc.

Please keep this thread for photos and SSGs, SSGNs, SSWs related stories.

BTW! Someone ask moderator to make it sticky and delete unnecessary posts!

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## blain2

Its sticky but the discussion of the photos should be allowed. This is what makes the thread more meaningful. Although extraneous, off topic content should be avoided.

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## Ssg1956

Dear Mr Blain2, I just noticed that the thread is still not sticky. Can you check it once again please!


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## sfuhassan

Sid said:


> You're obligated to provide such information when you make haughty claims. To 'digest' it or not; is a matter of free will on the part of those who read that information as well as depending on the credibility of the source.


 
According to my opinion SSG, Pakistan is the best SSG Force of the world. As Pakistan Army is the best Army in the world. Its my opinion and the slogan of our ARMY is "Men at their best". So my patriotism asks me to support Pakistani Forces. And we should not tolerate any anti-forces comment.


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## sfuhassan

We are proud of our Armed Forces !!!!! 

Tu Shaheen hai parwaz hai kaam tera
Tere samnay asman or bhi hain!!!!!!!

Dr. Allama Muhammad Iqbal.


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## nice051

AoA; I want to that is there any provision in army that a person selected as an ICTO through direct short service commission, age 28, be able to become a part of SSG. as u know ICTO is a CAPTAIN rank offer,if he is allowed to jnin SSG then let me know the criteria in terms of service : as how years he must service army before joining SSG and what is physical standard he must have by then.


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## Fieldmarshal

Not allowed to join the special forces


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## nice051

bro r u sure that one cannot become part of SSG if he is serving or selected as an ICTO ? i am asking this query because one of frndz at AS&RC rwp told me that it was possible to switch from ICTO to SSG . AND 2ndly he says that his relative who was selected in the medical core was able to switch in SSG.


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## meng2011

alive and willing to give their account. Certainly they dont have a website so that i can refer you too. They are Sepoys and Subedars. But certainly they have something which will not be digested by you easily.


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## soul hacker

awesome song must wa5tch


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## zaixiatian

This is a tough event!


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## Windjammer

*Special Forces of Turkey inspecting weapons during joint Exercise being conducted at Cherat (27-09-2011)*

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## mughaljee

^ what kind of gun the man looking into ?


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## Erhabi

mughaljee said:


> ^ what kind of gun the man looking into ?



Its a spotter scope..for identifying the target and distance to the target.,..sniper team consists of a spotter and a sniper

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

I like the flexible tripod in that pic. .


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## Abingdonboy

Can anyone answer me this Q- is ot not a HUGE waste of talent, time, resources,potential, capabilities etc to have the SSG providing VVIP protection to people like President and COAS? I mean there aren't many countires who have elite army SF protecting VVIPs. Instead most have dedicated police/federal law enforcement do such things- US (USSS), India (SPG), UK (met police). The reason for this are clear- diplomatic protection is a VERY technical, specialised and demanding task so having units specifically trained for this task (including CAT and counter sniper units like USSS and Indian SPG) is sensible or their entire ethos, training and resources and pulled towards this end. however if you have a SF unit like SSG that has trained to do a wide variety of activities such as airborne ops, HRT, jungle, mountain, urban warfare, CI, demolition, long-range patrols, ambushes etc than VVIP training is only a VERY small part of their mission portfolio and it makes sense they are not as proficient at it as other units purely dedicated to this task. Not to mention a seeming waste of resources training these operators to do such actions and only utilising them in a very particular way. It seems like it is just for superficial reasons ie- having the best unit protect you (similar situation was felt by Indian NSG when all scumbag politicians wanted "Black Cat" commandos which diverted away from NSG's CI mandate so they set up a dedicated wing, SRG, recruited only from IPS and only used in VVIP protection whilst the CI wing, SAG, received form KA SOF maintained CI ready). 

Just a few observations by me, please reply.


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## SQ8

Abingdonboy said:


> Can anyone answer me this Q- is ot not a HUGE waste of talent, time, resources,potential, capabilities etc to have the SSG providing VVIP protection to people like President and COAS? I mean there aren't many countires who have elite army SF protecting VVIPs. Instead most have dedicated police/federal law enforcement do such things- US (USSS), India (SPG), UK (met police). The reason for this are clear- diplomatic protection is a VERY technical, specialised and demanding task so having units specifically trained for this task (including CAT and counter sniper units like USSS and Indian SPG) is sensible or their entire ethos, training and resources and pulled towards this end. however if you have a SF unit like SSG that has trained to do a wide variety of activities such as airborne ops, HRT, jungle, mountain, urban warfare, CI, demolition, long-range patrols, ambushes etc than VVIP training is only a VERY small part of their mission portfolio and it makes sense they are not as proficient at it as other units purely dedicated to this task. Not to mention a seeming waste of resources training these operators to do such actions and only utilising them in a very particular way. It seems like it is just for superficial reasons ie- having the best unit protect you (similar situation was felt by Indian NSG when all scumbag politicians wanted "Black Cat" commandos which diverted away from NSG's CI mandate so they set up a dedicated wing, SRG, recruited only from IPS and only used in VVIP protection whilst the CI wing, SAG, received form KA SOF maintained CI ready).
> 
> Just a few observations by me, please reply.



For the COAS it makes sense.. 
not for the Civilian leadership.
But after the Taseer incident.. people are afraid to take chances.


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## Jango

Abingdonboy said:


> Can anyone answer me this Q- is ot not a HUGE waste of talent, time, resources,potential, capabilities etc to have the SSG providing VVIP protection to people like President and COAS? I mean there aren't many countires who have elite army SF protecting VVIPs. Instead most have dedicated police/federal law enforcement do such things- US (USSS), India (SPG), UK (met police). The reason for this are clear- diplomatic protection is a VERY technical, specialised and demanding task so having units specifically trained for this task (including CAT and counter sniper units like USSS and Indian SPG) is sensible or their entire ethos, training and resources and pulled towards this end. however if you have a SF unit like SSG that has trained to do a wide variety of activities such as airborne ops, HRT, jungle, mountain, urban warfare, CI, demolition, long-range patrols, ambushes etc than VVIP training is only a VERY small part of their mission portfolio and it makes sense they are not as proficient at it as other units purely dedicated to this task. Not to mention a seeming waste of resources training these operators to do such actions and only utilising them in a very particular way. It seems like it is just for superficial reasons ie- having the best unit protect you (similar situation was felt by Indian NSG when all scumbag politicians wanted "Black Cat" commandos which diverted away from NSG's CI mandate so they set up a dedicated wing, SRG, recruited only from IPS and only used in VVIP protection whilst the CI wing, SAG, received form KA SOF maintained CI ready).
> 
> Just a few observations by me, please reply.



SSG does not cover for President or PM, they did for Musharraf because he was COAS as well. Other than that, providing security to COAS is not wrong IMO.


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## Windjammer

Rawalpindi - September 29, 2011: 
Closing/Wing Exchange ceremony of a week long Pakistan - Turkey Joint Training Exercise ATTATURK-VII-2011 was held at Cherat today. Major General Farrukh Bashir, General Officer Commanding Special Services Group (SSG) was the chief guest on occasion.

Major General Farrukh Bashir congratulated the Officers and Soldiers of Turkish Special Forces and SSG of Pakistan Army on successful completion of this joint training. Major General Farrukh Bashir said that the main aim of the joint exercise was to further strengthen the military to military relationship and share experience of counter terrorism. He said that exercise began with learning and sharing of individual skills and culminated at a joint Air Assault Field Exercise. The aim and objectives set for the exercise had been achieved to its best, he concluded.

A large number of officers and soldiers of Turkish Land Forces and SSG of Pakistan Army attended the ceremony.

It may be noted that Special Forces of Pakistan and Turkey conduct joint training exercise each year, held alternately in Pakistan and Turkey. The exercise held in Pakistan is named as ATTATURK and that held in Turkey is called JINNAH.







*Turkish troops during Pakistan &#8211; Turkey Joint Exercise ATTATURK-VII-2011 at Cherat*












*Col Sendogan Atmaca, head of Turkish Special Forces, decorating Pakistani Special Services Group (SSG) Soldiers with Wings at the closing ceremony of Pakistan &#8211; Turkey Joint Exercise ATTATURK-VII-2011 at Cherat (29-09-2011*)

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## blain2

mughaljee said:


> ^ what kind of gun the man looking into ?



Its a Rangemaster .50 Cal.

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## blain2

nuclearpak said:


> SSG does not cover for President or PM, they did for Musharraf because he was COAS as well. Other than that, providing security to COAS is not wrong IMO.



Military protection is provide for 6 VVIPs in Pakistan. These include the President, PM, CJCSC, CoAS, CAS, CNS. The CAS and CNS are provided security details by the SSW and SSG(N) respectively. The rest are provided close protection by SSG (A).

I myself am not a fan of this but in light of the expense and a lack of expertise in other arms, it was a role specifically assigned to the SSG/SSW to retain a small component of the overall strength and provide them with such specialization.

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## blain2

Windjammer said:


> Rawalpindi - September 29, 2011:
> Closing/Wing Exchange ceremony of a week long Pakistan - Turkey Joint Training Exercise ATTATURK-VII-2011 was held at Cherat today. Major General Farrukh Bashir, General Officer Commanding Special Services Group (SSG) was the chief guest on occasion.
> 
> Major General Farrukh Bashir congratulated the Officers and Soldiers of Turkish Special Forces and SSG of Pakistan Army on successful completion of this joint training. Major General Farrukh Bashir said that the main aim of the joint exercise was to further strengthen the military to military relationship and share experience of counter terrorism. He said that exercise began with learning and sharing of individual skills and culminated at a joint Air Assault Field Exercise. The aim and objectives set for the exercise had been achieved to its best, he concluded.
> 
> A large number of officers and soldiers of Turkish Land Forces and SSG of Pakistan Army attended the ceremony.
> 
> It may be noted that Special Forces of Pakistan and Turkey conduct joint training exercise each year, held alternately in Pakistan and Turkey. The exercise held in Pakistan is named as ATTATURK and that held in Turkey is called JINNAH.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Turkish troops during Pakistan &#8211; Turkey Joint Exercise ATTATURK-VII-2011 at Cherat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Col Sendogan Atmaca, head of Turkish Special Forces, decorating Pakistani Special Services Group (SSG) Soldiers with Wings at the closing ceremony of Pakistan &#8211; Turkey Joint Exercise ATTATURK-VII-2011 at Cherat (29-09-2011*)



Last two pictures are of the freshest batch of inductees in the SSG. To have a Turkish guest pin the wings during the 
induction parade is an indication of the closeness between the two special forces.

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## PakShaheen79

Abingdonboy said:


> Can anyone answer me this Q- is ot not a HUGE waste of talent, time, resources,potential, capabilities etc to have the SSG providing VVIP protection to people like President and COAS? I mean there aren't many countires who have elite army SF protecting VVIPs. Instead most have dedicated police/federal law enforcement do such things- US (USSS), India (SPG), UK (met police). The reason for this are clear- diplomatic protection is a VERY technical, specialised and demanding task so having units specifically trained for this task (including CAT and counter sniper units like USSS and Indian SPG) is sensible or their entire ethos, training and resources and pulled towards this end. however if you have a SF unit like SSG that has trained to do a wide variety of activities such as airborne ops, HRT, jungle, mountain, urban warfare, CI, demolition, long-range patrols, ambushes etc than VVIP training is only a VERY small part of their mission portfolio and it makes sense they are not as proficient at it as other units purely dedicated to this task. Not to mention a seeming waste of resources training these operators to do such actions and only utilising them in a very particular way. It seems like it is just for superficial reasons ie- having the best unit protect you (similar situation was felt by Indian NSG when all scumbag politicians wanted "Black Cat" commandos which diverted away from NSG's CI mandate so they set up a dedicated wing, SRG, recruited only from IPS and only used in VVIP protection whilst the CI wing, SAG, received form KA SOF maintained CI ready).
> 
> Just a few observations by me, please reply.




Yes currently we have this problem but as army is giving some special anti-terrorism training to the police of all provinces so this scenario might change in near future. Police commandos have also been trained by SSG.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

The Elite force is also trained by SSG ... too bad those guys r used by f..king politicians to protect their corrupt assez.


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## fatman17

*Special Operations School * 

History  

The Special Services Group of Pakistan Army was raised in 1956 with Lt. Col. Abubakar Osman Mitha as its first Commanding Officer. The Special Services Group like Special Forces all over the world has been assigned multifarious tasks. It undertakes parachute commando operations, guerilla warfare operations, anti terrorist and frogmen operations. A lot of emphasis is laid on a very high standard of training to produce a soldier of the highest calibre who easily fits into the rigours of life in the Special Services Group.


Location  

Special Operations School is located in Cherat which is called the home of Special Services Group. Cherat is located in the crest of Khattak Range at approx 4500 ft above sea level in North West Frontier Province (NWFP) of Pakistan. It is 52 Kilometres from Peshawar and 54 kilometres from Nowshera. The road from Cherat bifurcates from Pabbi Railway Station on Grand Truck Road. Timewise it is approx 45 minutes drive from Pabbi Railway Station. The climate in Cherat is very pleasant in summers and cold in winters. Strong winds are a constant feature.


Educational Philosophy  

Serving with Special Services Group is very demanding both physically and mentally. The philosophy of education in this institution aims at imparting such training in an environment which allows the true self of student trainees to emerge in their physical, psychological and mental prowess. It aims at obtaining optimum mental and physical performance from students in extreme conditions. This not only contributes towards self-discovery of students but also makes possible the right selection of personnel for induction into Special Services Group.


Faculty 

The school has a dedicated faculty and staff for each category of the course. Break down of the faculty is as follows:

Advance Training Wing 
Basic Training Wing 
Special Training and Publication Wing 
Research, Trials and Publication Wing 
Administrative Support Wing 

The Courses  

Officers Advance Commando Course 
Basic Commando Course (Officers and Soldiers) 
Anti Terrorist Course 
Sniper Course 
Security Course (Officers and Soldiers) 
Advance Frogmen Course (Officers and Soldiers) 
Professional Unarmed Combat Course (Martial Arts) (Officers and Soldiers) 


Selection Criteria 

Commando Course 

Should be a volunteer 
Medical Category TV 
Maximum service 5 Years 
Should be less than 25 years of age. 

Physical Standards 
Chin ups - 8 
Sit ups - 30 in one minute 
Push up - 30 in one minute 
1 Mile run - 7.30 minutes 

Anti Terrorist, Security and Sniper Course 

Should be a marksman in pistol and rifle firing 
Medical Category 'A' 
Physical standards same as for commando course 

Frogman Course 

Medical Category 'A' 
Should qualify chamber test upto 180 ft sea water. 
Physical standards as above. 
Swimming Standards 
Should be able to swim 200 meters in 7 minutes (breast stroke) 
Should be able to swim 25 meters Underwater 
Should be able to swim 30 meters in full uniform with weapon 

Professional Unarmed Combat Course 

Physical standards as mentioned in the frogmen course 


Campus 

The School campus in Cherat comprises an administration block, two training blocks and two residential blocks for trainee officers and men. The campus is situated within Cherat Cantonment and no separate boundary exists. There is also a cinema hall and canteen. These blocks and facilities are within walking distance.


Training Facilities  

Model Rooms 
Class Rooms 
Survival Range 
Explosive Range 
Firing Range 
Assault Courses 
Cinema Hall 
Mountain Craft Training sites 
Frogmen Training sites 
Fighting in Built Up Area Range 
Killing Houses for Anti Terrorist Training 
Close Quarter Battle Firing Range 

Conclusion 

The standards maintained in various courses are very high which results into major dropouts at various stages of the course. The standards are kept high to ensure suitable intake into the Special Services Group.

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## Manticore

i google translated a page , couldnt make much of it other than exercise in behrain-- sorry if posted earlier
'

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## Manticore

2010

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## Manticore

ssg pics part1


http://i.imgur.com/Ygevf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oauRw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RkUv8.jpg
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/Dijital_Majik/siachin.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/Dijital_Majik/siachinmorterround.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/Dijital_Majik/45f8e6ef.jpg

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/3528/paki20km.jpg
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http://i.imgur.com/559ko.jpg

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## Manticore

http://i.imgur.com/8BGcV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QYOp7.gif
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http://i.imgur.com/PnqdX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6sOg2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HDAYO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/34F21.jpg

part2


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## Manticore

http://i.imgur.com/immTX.jpg
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## Manticore

http://i.imgur.com/FQkEu.jpg
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## monitor

Pakistan - Turkey (Special Forces) Joint Training Exercise ATTATURK-VII-2011 - YouTube
Special Forces of Turkey & Pakistan During Joint Exercise ATTATURK-VII

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Manticore

2010


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## Manticore

---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 PM ----------













---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 PM ----------

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Manticore



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Super Falcon

hahahahha swimming pool ma samandar ma karo tu pata chala na 300 feet pa hahaha well cool images but we need more and more here latest not old same crap


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## NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM

i want to join my age 25 can someone guide i am graduate and wish to join ssg force pak army ...


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## krash

NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM said:


> i want to join my age 25 can someone guide i am graduate and wish to join ssg force pak army ...



You'll first need to get two years of experience in the Pak army.

ps: Welcome to defence.pk. Please visit the Introduction section and introduce your self to us


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## S-A-B-E-R->

ANTIBODY said:


>


so which one of u took my energy bar?...


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## Manticore

http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-f...military-exercise-youyi-iv-6.html#post2322898
this thread is alsso flooded e ssg pics!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## killerx




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## smt

Do Pakistan's special forces (ssg, ssw, and ssgn included) have super specialized units such as those found in the US sf very specific for certain jobs? Ex the green berets who are fluent in various languages are sent in when they need to be in the shadows giving logistical and training support to revolutions or guerillas, and so many others out there? And do they have super elite teams that arn't as 'advertised' that are involved in more classified jobs such as delta force and seal team six?


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## Puma49

They do, but M16 and Type56/Type81 are mostly used and are a choice of every Pakistani soldier.


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## Puma49

The SSG is pretty cool.


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## Arsalan

*Special Service Group (SSG) - Pakistan Army*

Special documentary of Pakistan Army SSG Group


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## Arsalan

SSG (Navy)


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## blain2

smt said:


> Do Pakistan's special forces (ssg, ssw, and ssgn included) have super specialized units such as those found in the US sf very specific for certain jobs? Ex the green berets who are fluent in various languages are sent in when they need to be in the shadows giving logistical and training support to revolutions or guerillas, and so many others out there? And do they have super elite teams that arn't as 'advertised' that are involved in more classified jobs such as delta force and seal team six?



Just within the SSG, 20 or so different regional languages and dialects are spoken and understood.


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## MeeKaaL

Masha-Allah Love Pak Army


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## Abingdonboy

arsalanaslam123 said:


> SSG (Navy)




hey, i just found this vid of IN MARCOs training (says CISF but that's wrong) and noticed the remarkable similarity (in terms of purely appearance) in MARCOs and SSG-N (especially during room clearance drills 1.10-)








Really interesting how similar they are.


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## IRFAN KHAN007

Good.........


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## kshahzad

airbus said:


> Chinese Type 81 Assault Rifle......


i think it is AK 47 ...........


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## kshahzad

hi 
I want to join SSG can any on let me know how can I join ...............


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## ice_man

kshahzad said:


> hi
> I want to join SSG can any on let me know how can I join ...............




first join the army and then you can move ahead and if capable enough you might be accepted into the SSG


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Can u guys kindly find me the link to one the thread which had pics from all of our SF?coz i have been tryin to find it but no avail...... would appreciate it very much... thanks in advance.


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## Tehmasib

totally wrong room entry......
room entry principle are :-
the first man can go right or left corner
if he goes right the second man goes left
the third man goes right
and fourth man goes left
its four man room entry...first u clear the corner 
we need more modren trainging and emphasis on crises planing 
this is one big subject dear


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## krash

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Can u guys kindly find me the link to one the thread which had pics from all of our SF?coz i have been tryin to find it but no avail...... would appreciate it very much... thanks in advance.



Here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/113616-photo-collection-ssgs-ssgns-ssws.html


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## Irfan Baloch

kshahzad said:


> hi
> I want to join SSG can any on let me know how can I join ...............



Join the army. complete your initial training and after joining the unit volunteer for SSG


good luck


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## SEAL

Agreement with blood stamp.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Amir.MI-171

Allah Akbar ...brave department...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

I have a few questions:-

1.What is the strength of SSG,SSGN and SSW?

2.What is the size of the teams they operate in..i mean the smallest team.Are they divided into units and if so can anyone give an example whats it like?

3.If they are divided into small teams what is the role of various operatives in the team like demolition expert,nav expert medical expert etc?

4.What is the standard Rocket Launcher they use?What are the machines guns they use?

5.What kind of firepower would there be in the smallest team?

6.Does the Pakistan Army give the SF operatives any special knowledge like special classes after getting in the SF?


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## HANI

pak ssg officers having meal with jawans 

Can,t see these images in many armed forces ......

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## niazi911

one of the best elite forces of the world but under rated

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have a few questions:-
> 
> 1.What is the strength of SSG,SSGN and SSW?



Classified... 


> 2.What is the size of the teams they operate in..i mean the smallest team.Are they divided into units and if so can anyone give an example whats it like?
> 
> 3.If they are divided into small teams what is the role of various operatives in the team like demolition expert,nav expert medical expert etc


Classified.



> 4.What is the standard Rocket Launcher they use?What are the machines guns they use?



Rpg-7,RPG-29,M-60,FN Minimi,SAWs,MG-3s,PK Mg etc.... they have been seen using several types of weapons and not many operational pics are available.



> 5.What kind of firepower would there be in the smallest team?



RPGs,C-4,Claymores,grenades,UBGLs,SAWs,snipers...Air cover.



> 6.Does the Pakistan Army give the SF operatives any special knowledge like special classes after getting in the SF?



Yes...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Classified...
> 
> Classified.
> 
> 
> 
> Rpg-7,RPG-29,M-60,FN Minimi,SAWs,MG-3s,PK Mg etc.... they have been seen using several types of weapons and not many operational pics are available.
> 
> 
> 
> RPGs,C-4,Claymores,grenades,UBGLs,SAWs,snipers...Air cover.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...



Thanks for your reply.

Can you share like what topics are covered in the special classes.Like Indian SFs are taught various languages,working of satellites etc.

Secondly,You mentioned snipers are present in small teams.I know now that the number is classified but to have a sniper in a small team would mean they would be section size i guess.

Lastly what type of martial art form are they taught?


----------



## Rafi

Well one of the specialist SSG, SSGN, SSW, skills is languages, all the indian regional languages and other national languages are taught, to a very high standard, even degree level. 

Pakistani Special Forces are trained to perform small unit Ops, and even as solo-operators, but the ideal is a 4 man team, based on the experience of the SAS, GB, SEALS etc. 





You can see some of the skills, in this joint Pak-Turkey special forces exercise. 

On the whole, Pakistani special forces - choose weapons from a wide range of sources, and use them at their whim.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Rafi said:


> Well one of the specialist SSG, SSGN, SSW, skills is languages, all the indian regional languages and other national languages are taught to a very high standard, even degree level.



Same here..Indian SF operatives are also very fluent in Pakistani languages.Moreoever the degree level thing has been taken by the IA Generals by great interest and the plan now is to make sure every jawan retires with a degree.



> Pakistani Special Forces are trained to perform small unit Ops, and even as solo-operators, but the ideal is a 4 man team, based on the experience of the SAS, GB, SEALS etc.



Solo operators..there would be some thinking behind that.I see it as both positve and negative.

4 man team is pretty much same everywhere(+/- 2)IA SFs use 6 man teams while Marcos use 4-8 man teams depending on the scenario.

Lastly i wana add i have been seeing your SFs videos on youtube for a long time and i must say they are impressive..had a few questions so decided to ask here..BTW thanks for replying to both of you.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Rafi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Same here..Indian SF operatives are also very fluent in Pakistani languages.Moreoever the degree level thing has been taken by the IA Generals by great interest and the plan now is to make sure every jawan retires with a degree.
> 
> 
> 
> Solo operators..there would be some thinking behind that.I see it as both positve and negative.
> 
> 4 man team is pretty much same everywhere(+/- 2)IA SFs use 6 man teams while Marcos use 4-8 man teams depending on the scenario.
> 
> Latly i wana add i have been seeing your SFs videos on youtube for a long time and i must say they are impressive..had a few questions so decided to ask here..BTW thanks for replying to both of you.



No problem mate, we are all here to learn about each other. Thank you about our SF's, we are proud of them, you have some good operators yourself, live long and prosper fella.

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## niazi911

why we still use chinese smg known as type 56 as it has more recoil than other smgs around the globe


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## blain2

HANI said:


> pak ssg officers having meal with jawans
> 
> Can,t see these images in many armed forces ......




Special Forces around the world share this trait where the officers and non-commissioned troops work and operate together very closely. The point with this specific photo is that its not just any officer. Its actually the GoC SSG (Maj Gen Haroon) eating with his troops and roughing it with them.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## TaimiKhan

blain2 said:


> Special Forces around the world share this trait where the officers and non-commissioned troops work and operate together very closely. The point with this specific photo is that its not just any officer. Its actually the GoC SSG (Maj Gen Haroon) eating with his troops and roughing it with them.



Most probably this picture is from the Swat Operation. Where the GOC went in with is troops in the first wave of the aerial assault. 

He is a very good officer and a gentleman officer. 

I hope he becomes the next COAS. He has combat experience and has dealt with the COIN operations and led his men and led the largest aerial assault in the Pak Army history.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## AHMED85

fatman17 said:


> *Special Operations School *
> 
> History
> 
> The Special Services Group of Pakistan Army was raised in 1956 with Lt. Col. Abubakar Osman Mitha as its first Commanding Officer. The Special Services Group like Special Forces all over the world has been assigned multifarious tasks. It undertakes parachute commando operations, guerilla warfare operations, anti terrorist and frogmen operations. A lot of emphasis is laid on a very high standard of training to produce a soldier of the highest calibre who easily fits into the rigours of life in the Special Services Group.
> 
> 
> Location
> 
> Special Operations School is located in Cherat which is called the home of Special Services Group. Cherat is located in the crest of Khattak Range at approx 4500 ft above sea level in North West Frontier Province (NWFP) of Pakistan. It is 52 Kilometres from Peshawar and 54 kilometres from Nowshera. The road from Cherat bifurcates from Pabbi Railway Station on Grand Truck Road. Timewise it is approx 45 minutes drive from Pabbi Railway Station. The climate in Cherat is very pleasant in summers and cold in winters. Strong winds are a constant feature.
> 
> 
> Educational Philosophy
> 
> Serving with Special Services Group is very demanding both physically and mentally. The philosophy of education in this institution aims at imparting such training in an environment which allows the true self of student trainees to emerge in their physical, psychological and mental prowess. It aims at obtaining optimum mental and physical performance from students in extreme conditions. This not only contributes towards self-discovery of students but also makes possible the right selection of personnel for induction into Special Services Group.
> 
> 
> Faculty
> 
> The school has a dedicated faculty and staff for each category of the course. Break down of the faculty is as follows:
> 
> Advance Training Wing
> Basic Training Wing
> Special Training and Publication Wing
> Research, Trials and Publication Wing
> Administrative Support Wing
> 
> The Courses
> 
> Officers Advance Commando Course
> Basic Commando Course (Officers and Soldiers)
> Anti Terrorist Course
> Sniper Course
> Security Course (Officers and Soldiers)
> Advance Frogmen Course (Officers and Soldiers)
> Professional Unarmed Combat Course (Martial Arts) (Officers and Soldiers)
> 
> 
> Selection Criteria
> 
> Commando Course
> 
> Should be a volunteer
> Medical Category TV
> Maximum service 5 Years
> Should be less than 25 years of age.
> 
> Physical Standards
> Chin ups - 8
> Sit ups - 30 in one minute
> Push up - 30 in one minute
> 1 Mile run - 7.30 minutes
> 
> Anti Terrorist, Security and Sniper Course
> 
> Should be a marksman in pistol and rifle firing
> Medical Category 'A'
> Physical standards same as for commando course
> 
> Frogman Course
> 
> Medical Category 'A'
> Should qualify chamber test upto 180 ft sea water.
> Physical standards as above.
> Swimming Standards
> Should be able to swim 200 meters in 7 minutes (breast stroke)
> Should be able to swim 25 meters Underwater
> Should be able to swim 30 meters in full uniform with weapon
> 
> Professional Unarmed Combat Course
> 
> Physical standards as mentioned in the frogmen course
> 
> 
> Campus
> 
> The School campus in Cherat comprises an administration block, two training blocks and two residential blocks for trainee officers and men. The campus is situated within Cherat Cantonment and no separate boundary exists. There is also a cinema hall and canteen. These blocks and facilities are within walking distance.
> 
> 
> Training Facilities
> 
> Model Rooms
> Class Rooms
> Survival Range
> Explosive Range
> Firing Range
> Assault Courses
> Cinema Hall
> Mountain Craft Training sites
> Frogmen Training sites
> Fighting in Built Up Area Range
> Killing Houses for Anti Terrorist Training
> Close Quarter Battle Firing Range
> 
> Conclusion
> 
> The standards maintained in various courses are very high which results into major dropouts at various stages of the course. The standards are kept high to ensure suitable intake into the Special Services Group.


 

What is the major difference between USMC and SSG in each part of Schooling...


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## RazPaK

^

I think a fairer comparison to SSG would be perhaps the Green Berets.


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## AHMED85

RazPaK said:


> ^
> 
> I think a fairer comparison to SSG would be perhaps the Green Berets.



i think in USMC each candidate know how to deal with every instrument of Armed forces. I mean Jack of all trade in Army, which is some time lack in SSG..

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## Saquib

Why did Army choose the name Special Service Group - the coolest name for SSG I think should have been the fore runner of all Special Forces.

The Corps of Guides 

If they are any ex SSGs - can you let us know

What do members think!


----------



## KingMamba

My uncle who lives in Faisalabad was SSG for 15 years before he retired people are afraid of SSG they are known for having short tempers LOL.



Saquib said:


> Why did Army choose the name Special Service Group - the coolest name for SSG I think should have been the fore runner of all Special Forces.
> 
> The Corps of Guides
> 
> If they are any ex SSGs - can you let us know
> 
> What do members think!



They are also known as the Black Stork if that sounds better lol


----------



## Saquib

Special Forces name should always be understated it is designed to confuse the enemy - Special Air Service - the name was use to confuse the germans into thinking there was a airborne force in North Africa.

Special Forces by their nature of their duties they have to carry out have to be understated, discrete. The name should reflect that - The Corps of Guides I think reflects that by being understated and confusing the enemy into thinking it is a large crops size force and specially it should show Pakistani sense of humour!


----------



## Imran Khan

chalo bhi khoon ka nashta kereen .

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## Frontier Force

I just came from waziristan in May,I was posted there...

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## Muhammad Hassan Aijaz

Nice Pics...............


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## Imran Khan



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## Imran Khan



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## SEAL



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## Edevelop



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## F.O.X

*During Survival Training .
*





*After they are Kidnapped , Starved for 7 days , & then Escaped .* *and now eating Survival food , Raw Flesh & Blood.*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Imran Khan said:


>


*
Lala jee these guys are elite force... police..*



........................





*Training/drills..*


----------



## iPhone

Imran Khan said:


> chalo bhi khoon ka nashta kereen .



barf, I just almost vomited imagining eating that.


----------



## Fieldmarshal

F.O.X said:


> *During Survival Training .
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *After they are Kidnapped , Starved for 7 days , & then Escaped .* *and now eating Survival food , Raw Flesh & Blood.*



these are all Saudi special forces personal. This was the first batch trained by SSG, on an urgent SOS (sent by the Saudi govt.). Right after the Saudis had their hind sides handed to them by the yemeni rebels, the houthis. Suprisingly most of them were us ranger qualified . 
The SSG officer on the right wearing the airborne cap is Maj. Umar. He was the conducting officer for this course.

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## srws01

Really love the photo gallery.. Is there anyway we can develop a forum that can help design a new Image for the PKDEF... Its more about the ROAR then the CLAW... that frights one

We need to make designated colored personal armour to match the attire of the troops wearing them.. it should be black over black...

I think its time that we make new wing of SSG. A new name, a new outfit. Staffed with people who know computers and all.. 

Its time we reduce some numbers in our regular army troops and make some armed to the teeth sort of force... a division strength when at its MAX... part of the strike element if needed... and know how to operate all our techs and most common platforms with the enemies....


----------



## Mosamania

Fieldmarshal said:


> these are all Saudi special forces personal. This was the first batch trained by SSG, on an urgent SOS (sent by the Saudi govt.). Right after the Saudis had their hind sides handed to them by the yemeni rebels, the houthis. Suprisingly most of them were us ranger qualified .
> The SSG officer on the right wearing the airborne cap is Maj. Umar. He was the conducting officer for this course.



Umm. Can you please verify how "the Saudis had their hind sides handed to them"? And show me why do you think that operation was a defeat for Saudi forces??

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## Kompromat

Fieldmarshal said:


> these are all Saudi special forces personal. This was the first batch trained by SSG, on an urgent SOS (sent by the Saudi govt.). Right after the Saudis had their hind sides handed to them by the yemeni rebels, the houthis. Suprisingly most of them were us ranger qualified .
> The SSG officer on the right wearing the airborne cap is Maj. Umar. He was the conducting officer for this course.


 
Are you refering to a specific operation against the hutis?


----------



## Jango

Imran Khan said:


>



Elite police is having Steyr Aug (3rd man from right) and M-4 with red dots and grips etc etc.

Good to see.


----------



## Manticore



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## Kompromat



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## Tehmasib

nuclearpak said:


> Elite police is having Steyr Aug (3rd man from right) and M-4 with red dots and grips etc etc.
> 
> Good to see.


they are doing excercise of up stairs and down stairs entry...every one have M-4 with aim ponit installed on M-4 with flash light, gas mask etc...................


----------



## Jango

Aeronaut said:


>



isn't the guy on the right same as this one.


----------



## mymeaningislion

Irfan Baloch said:


> what happened to him? new year prank?



He Carried back his partner who was injured in the battle


----------



## Irfan Baloch

mymeaningislion said:


> He Carried back his partner who was injured in the battle



so not an exercise then. in previous pages there are pictures of raw flash and blood being eaten so I thought it was related
there is no caption and no description so one is only left to draw conclusions based on what other pictures have


----------



## Fieldmarshal

nuclearpak said:


> isn't the guy on the right same as this one.



Yes it is Maj bangash in both the pics


----------



## Kompromat

Posting names might be a danger to the safety of these men.

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## Irfan Baloch

Aeronaut said:


> Posting names might be a danger to the safety of these men.



thats right

giving away names just to show to be authentic and more knowledgeable can work against these people and their families

the terrorist have no moral limits. they celebrate and brag about killing the women and children of soldiers and tribesmen that have fought against them

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## srws01

Irfan Baloch said:


> thats right
> 
> giving away names just to show to be authentic and more knowledgeable can work against these people and their families
> 
> the terrorist have no moral limits. they celebrate and brag about killing the women and children of soldiers and tribesmen that have fought against them



Can we not ask the Moderator or the owners to edit the quote to remove the names...


----------



## Kompromat

Irfan bhai , lots of us know lots of stuff we are not allowed to say to get brownie points.

Please 'Edit' all posts with disclosed names of SSGs or other soldiers , issue infractons on repeated posts.

They are heros and we dont want to know their names for their sake.


----------



## Windjammer




----------



## Kompromat

Posted before.


----------



## Haseebullah

The Ever Beautiful M4.








Avtomat Kalashinkova




Beretta 92FS




Glock 19-SSG Sidearm




FN-2000


----------



## Haseebullah

Loads of 'em.





Modified G-3,i guess.




Ak-47 modified by a soldier


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## Kompromat

These photos have been posted many many times already. And that gun is not FN-2000 but XM-25.


----------



## Haseebullah

Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle used by SNIPERS of SSG.




Needs no Introduction.




Glock sidearm.




Well i would be damned.







Aeronaut said:


> These photos have been posted many many times already. And that gun is not FN-2000 but XM-25.


Sorry! 
Could not find any other thread.


----------



## Haseebullah




----------



## Haseebullah




----------



## Kompromat

Do you want me to merge it with the sticky thread ?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/292-ssg-special-services-group.html


----------



## Haseebullah

Aeronaut said:


> Do you want me to merge it with the sticky thread ?
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/292-ssg-special-services-group.html


Did not see that!
Do as you please!


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## Tehmasib

Dear All 
Have a close look at the picture. This is not a scene from Hollywood or some Bollywood movie. Neither this is some kind of rehearsal for an Army Exercise. This is a real life scene. The gentleman in the picture is an officer from SSG, and is wounded seriously on his chest and head.Look at the peace, calm and serenity on his face. Seems to be in some deep thoughts, thinking about chances 

of his life, or a new born baby back home, or a young wife, or a worried mother. I can only imagine and a chill goes down my spine.
When I received it this morning, I wrote to two young officers to find out the identity of this officer, and also whether he survived or......... The reply came that this officer is Capt Bilal from 3 Commando Battalion. He survived this attack but in a subsequent encounter later, got an RPG round direct at his chest and joined the ranks of "The Loved Ones Of Allah", leaving behind all those that I mentioned above.

I am sitting in my office in Karachi, with misty eyes, thinking about this handsome young man. He had joined the Army to fight for the country. He did that at the peril of his life. He defended us from the brutalities of Talibans, but unfortunately....... Well leave it here. A lot to write . Did he know the Corrupt politicians, the Judiciary, which for cheap popularity is setting these very persons free, who back and fight our men, A Grade-16 employ of the Government has the cheeks to challenge the writ of the Government and Mighty Supreme Court is following the policy of appeasement .......Let me not mention all this when I am writing about this great man. Relax but do read the story of a farmer, who had a mouse, a hen and a bull in his back yard. The mouse was threatened by a snake and so on ......

Ponder, if you have time and have not been influenced by the likes of Aasma Jahangir and Aitizaz and the so called self acclaimed "THEKEDARS" of Islam.

[Courtesy Of :: Pakistan Armed Forces (Motherland's Honour) &#9829; ]

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Tehmasib said:


> Dear All
> Have a close look at the picture. This is not a scene from Hollywood or some Bollywood movie. Neither this is some kind of rehearsal for an Army Exercise. This is a real life scene. The gentleman in the picture is an officer from SSG, and is wounded seriously on his chest and head.Look at the peace, calm and serenity on his face. Seems to be in some deep thoughts, thinking about chances
> 
> of his life, or a new born baby back home, or a young wife, or a worried mother. I can only imagine and a chill goes down my spine.
> When I received it this morning, I wrote to two young officers to find out the identity of this officer, and also whether he survived or......... The reply came that this officer is Capt Bilal from 3 Commando Battalion. He survived this attack but in a subsequent encounter later, got an RPG round direct at his chest and joined the ranks of "The Loved Ones Of Allah", leaving behind all those that I mentioned above.
> 
> I am sitting in my office in Karachi, with misty eyes, thinking about this handsome young man. He had joined the Army to fight for the country. He did that at the peril of his life. He defended us from the brutalities of Talibans, but unfortunately....... Well leave it here. A lot to write . Did he know the Corrupt politicians, the Judiciary, which for cheap popularity is setting these very persons free, who back and fight our men, A Grade-16 employ of the Government has the cheeks to challenge the writ of the Government and Mighty Supreme Court is following the policy of appeasement .......Let me not mention all this when I am writing about this great man. Relax but do read the story of a farmer, who had a mouse, a hen and a bull in his back yard. The mouse was threatened by a snake and so on ......
> 
> Ponder, if you have time and have not been influenced by the likes of Aasma Jahangir and Aitizaz and the so called self acclaimed "THEKEDARS" of Islam.
> 
> [Courtesy Of :: Pakistan Armed Forces (Motherland's Honour) &#9829; ]




I respect your feelings mate.

This pic amazed me when i first looked at it...There are so many things Capt Bilal's expressions are saying in this pic.Its really sad to know that he is no more in this world.May he rest in peace.

I also have the same feelings when i come to hear about stories of soldiers of my country.I think being a soldier invovles great sacrifices and commitments.

I know i am from India and we are not exactly allies..but my respect to such great heroes of your country who are fighting the Taliban...May you succeed and May God be with you.

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## Jango

Areyou people sure that this is the real scene. Because i am pretty sure that i saw somewhere that this scene is from some movie of ISPR, the photographer, then the 2 people in the background walking away from the scene, I am sure that when a person is injured like that, he is not left alone to walk like that, while the photographer takes pictures. Is it real, because it is written that is from a ISPR movie.


----------



## forcetrip

nuclearpak said:


> Areyou people sure that this is the real scene. Because i am pretty sure that i saw somewhere that this scene is from some movie of ISPR, the photographer, then the 2 people in the background walking away from the scene, I am sure that when a person is injured like that, he is not left alone to walk like that, while the photographer takes pictures. Is it real, because it is written that is from a ISPR movie.



He said he called and found out who he was before posting. The top cut looks real. The chest wound seems to be pretty accurate as well. Can this be recreated professionally? I would say definately. If you ask me the chances of an ISPR production to make it possible, I would say I doubt it. But then again everything is possible, and for now I salute this mans sacrifice.

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## Tehmasib

bro with all respect its real pic ...not drama scene


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## Jango

Well if it is real then salute to him, but there are alot of things that make me doubt.


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## Tehmasib

here is his uniform and pic when he was recently promoted as capt


----------



## Tehmasib

on 41.35 u see the actor face and uniform and see the difference bro.....drama by PTV

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## Bratva

Why is that all SSG operators carries only customized AK-47 in SAWAT, SW operations. All the videos and pictures confirm this fact. Where is American or any other western rifles that SSG uses and are more efficient than this AK-47?


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## Fieldmarshal

Tehmasib said:


> here is his uniform and pic when he was recently promoted as capt



Stop posting BS info 
the above pic of Capt Bilal Zafar was taken during UN mission.
Capt Bilal Zafar attained shahadat in pochar.
HE took an rpg hit right on his chest as can be seen from the remain of his uniform. He was awarded a TBT, the highest award for gallantry during I.S duty.
the injured guy in the pic above is not Capt. Billal



mafiya said:


> Why is that all SSG operators carries only customized AK-47 in SAWAT, SW operations. All the videos and pictures confirm this fact. Where is American or any other western rifles that SSG uses and are more efficient than this AK-47?



american assault rifles are crap, so much so that even the americans, specially the special ops guys prefer to use Ak 47 both in iraq and afghanistan. ak 47 is the most reliable and rugged smg in the history of world. it can take a lot of beating and abuse but still will do its job. that is not the case with almost all assault rifles available in the market.


----------



## Jango

Those two people are definitely different.


----------



## Last Hope

They are both different men. Might look same, but are not one. The drama 'Ghazanosar ka hero' which is on life and death of Captain Bilal didn't have the real person obviously, and the person who most looks like him was selected with some facial makeups.


----------



## Fieldmarshal

Last Hope said:


> They are both different men. Might look same, but are not one. The drama 'Ghazanosar ka hero' which is on life and death of Captain Bilal didn't have the real person obviously, and the person who most looks like him was selected with some facial makeups.



this is so very obvious from the side parting of the hair.
Capt. Billal shaheed did his from the left side, while the injured guy does it from the right.


----------



## Last Hope

Fieldmarshal said:


> this is so very obvious from the side parting of the hair.
> Capt. Billal shaheed did his from the left side, while the injured guy does it from the right.



What is the confusion here? The person below, I think, was acting as Capt Bilal due to his similar facial expressions and the shot is from the ISPR movie after Capt Bilal got a RPG.


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## Jango

Last Hope said:


> What is the confusion here? The person below, I think, was acting as Capt Bilal due to his similar facial expressions and the shot is from the ISPR movie after Capt Bilal got a RPG.



That's what I have been saying from the start.


----------



## Arsalan

*Anthem of Special Service Group (S.S.G) - Pakistan Army*

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## MohammadUmerkhokhar

Does SSG COMMANDOS eats Snakes and Lizards in the Survival course in their training?


----------



## F.O.X

MohammadUmerkhokhar said:


> Does SSG COMMANDOS eats Snakes and Lizards in the Survival course in their training?


 
Yes . They Eat Raw Meat & Drink blood Too .

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## Last Hope

MohammadUmerkhokhar said:


> Does SSG COMMANDOS eats Snakes and Lizards in the Survival course in their training?



Not only SSG, every officer has to go through this training. Just letting you know, many officers find snake to be tastiest of all that they eat.

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## Rafi

Last Hope said:


> Not only SSG, every officer has to go through this training. Just letting you know, many officers find snake to be tastiest of all that they eat.



Snake for me tastes a bit like duck and also chicken.

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## Arsalan

Rafi said:


> Snake for me tastes a bit like duck and also chicken.



i hope you are assuming this and have not tried it... EVER!! 
i mean... YAKHASSSS!!!


----------



## F.O.X

arsalanaslam123 said:


> i hope you are assuming this and have not tried it... EVER!!
> i mean... YAKHASSSS!!!



They are actually Quite Tasty , if Eaten Right.

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## Rafi

It also has to be cooked well, snake meat might contain parasites - what you do is remove the head, and pull the skin off, gut, (remove the venom glands if it venomous) then you cut fillets off it and either roast on a skewer (tree wood) or fry - season with salt and pepper.

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## Jango

I have seen people who take the head off, then squeeze it from the tail to the head, so that all the guts go out, peel of the skin, and voila!

BTW, anybody here sees Bear Grills, former SAS.?

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## MohammadUmerkhokhar

What type of Raw meat? i mean Lizards too?


----------



## Tehmasib

Dear all..
Capt Tariq Jamal, SSG who got injured in an operation against militants in Orakzai Agency is admitted in CMH. Some how rumours have been spread on facebbook about his shahadat. he z still alive And fighting for his life. Please be assure that no rumour be spread abt him untill confirmed..
We all pray to Almighty Allah for his speedy recovery..
Ameen


----------



## blain2

Last Hope said:


> What is the confusion here? The person below, I think, was acting as Capt Bilal due to his similar facial expressions and the shot is from the ISPR movie after Capt Bilal got a RPG.



Because he is Bilal's brother. Both of the brothers were in the SSG together. When they filmed, they asked his brother to play the role.

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## A.Rafay



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## Gurmani

nice collection.


----------



## SEAL

Soldiers training.


----------



## Last Hope

fox said:


> Soldiers training.



They are cadets from PMA who are not even related to SSG.


----------



## Tehmasib



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## Farah Sohail

Last Hope said:


> Not only SSG, every officer has to go through this training. Just letting you know, many officers find snake to be tastiest of all that they eat.



Are you guys serious?Seriously, officers eat snakes and lizards during training, or u guys are kidding/making fun? If u ppl are serious, just wanted to ask, are snakes and lizards even halaal?


----------



## F.O.X

Farah Sohail said:


> Are you guys serious?Seriously, officers eat snakes and lizards during training, or u guys are kidding/making fun? If u ppl are serious, just wanted to ask, are snakes and lizards even halaal?



When it is about survival then yes you are allowed to eat them .

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## Last Hope

Farah Sohail said:


> Are you guys serious?Seriously, officers eat snakes and lizards during training, or u guys are kidding/making fun? If u ppl are serious, just wanted to ask, are snakes and lizards even halaal?



No kidding. And snakes are favorite of all the things you get to eat.
In survival, everything becomes Halal.

But for survival training, I'm not sure hence no comment.


----------



## Xeric

Last Hope said:


> They are cadets from PMA who are not even related to SSG.


Though you are right in saying these are not SSG, but then they are no cadets either. They are Officer during Infantry training at Infantry School Quetta.

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## Icarus

Last Hope said:


> They are cadets from PMA who are not even related to SSG.



Nope I see a lieutenant's pips on the uniform second from the right row, these guys are neither PMA nor SSG.


----------



## Xeric

Icarus said:


> Nope I see a lieutenant's pips on the uniform second from the right row, these guys are neither PMA nor SSG.


Most probably after being 'captured' during Survival Training.


----------



## Icarus

Xeric said:


> Most probably after being 'captured' during Survival Training.



Indeed captivity training was also my first guess.


----------



## Xeric

Last Hope said:


> No kidding. And snakes are favorite of all the things you get to eat.
> In survival, everything becomes Halal.
> 
> But for survival training, I'm not sure hence no comment.


 


Farah Sohail said:


> Are you guys serious?Seriously, officers eat snakes and lizards during training, or u guys are kidding/making fun? If u ppl are serious, just wanted to ask, are snakes and lizards even halaal?


During Survival Training one has to consume anything that can provide you with proteins and stuff. Here, enjoy:

Yum Yum Chicken :p | Facebook


----------



## TaimiKhan

Xeric said:


> Though you are right in saying these are not SSG, but then they are no cadets either. They are Officer during Infantry training at Infantry School Quetta.



Basic Course walay lagtay hain


----------



## Xeric

Icarus said:


> Indeed captivity training was also my first guess.



We have included Survival and Evasion into our Infantry Training even for the ordinary Officers. These guys in the pics will be taken back to 'base' where they are going to get a guud beating with dandas, will be tortured and hung upside down. Only those who will give away names will be 'spared', the rest are going to be thrashed a bot more till they also break, though they are going to be the one who will get guud marks 

Before being 'captured' they had marched for more than a 100KMs, ate anything that they found in the rugged mountains of Quetta and raided an (fake) ammo dump or something and then finally were caught by their 'Directing Staff' (enemy).

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## Xeric

TaimiKhan said:


> Basic Course walay lagtay hain



Yep, Fifth Term of PMA.

i hope you guys know that basic infantry training course(s) are known as PMA's fifth term for the obvious reasons (actually PMA only has four term/semesters to train its cadets).

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## TaimiKhan

Xeric said:


> Yep, Fifth Term of PMA.
> 
> i hope you guys know that basic infantry training course(s) are known as PMA's fifth term for the obvious reasons (actually PMA only has four term/semesters to train its cadets).



Yups, now the cadets go directly for basic from PMA, this is a good move. 

My bro basic got delayed so much that he is now doing it as a Captain. Lot of officers would get delayed in doing their basic, sneidng directly from PMA is a good move.

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## Xeric

Xeric said:


> During Survival Training one has to consume anything that can provide you with proteins and stuff. Here, enjoy:
> 
> Yum Yum Chicken :p | Facebook



i think this can explain:


Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Lol.. the goat ran away... EPIC..
> 
> Here is the another menu:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Goat
> chicken
> etc etc.. u can have them too..


 
Mind it, this aint strawberry pie:



Imran Khan said:


> chalo bhi khoon ka nashta kereen .

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## MastanKhan

Farah Sohail said:


> Are you guys serious?Seriously, officers eat snakes and lizards during training, or u guys are kidding/making fun? If u ppl are serious,
> 
> 
> just wanted to ask, are snakes and lizards even halaal?



Ma'am,

Are you so innocent---or are you so ignorant towards the realities of life?


----------



## Kompromat

MastanKhan said:


> Ma'am,
> 
> Are you so innocent---or are you so ignorant towards the realities of life?



Easy on the girl MK  , eating snakes and lizards are pretty creepy for civilians.

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## Donatello

Aeronaut said:


> Easy on the girl MK  , eating snakes and lizards are pretty creepy for civilians.


In some parts of the world they are a routine diet.


----------



## Dashing Defender

Last Hope said:


> They are cadets from PMA who are not even related to SSG.



No they are SSG trainees. During SSG training, trainees are not allowed to wear their ranks.


----------



## batmannow

Donatello said:


> In some parts of the world they are a routine diet.


 Yes mk you right!
But I like crocodile ,s meat, its a common paractice all over far east including china?
Anyway our holybook allows us, to eat anything just to be alive in certain deadly conditions , I think we all shall, think in a more educated manner, specialy the young chaps?
Here


----------



## Pak47

Not sure if posted before, but Enjoy.


----------



## Hyperion

Mate, if you ever visit Kenya or South Africa, try my favorite restaurant!

I go at-least twice a year, just to enjoy the experience 

The Tamarind Group - Welcome To Carnivore

Don't think too much about the menu, just let them know in advance and they'll cook anything that either crawls, walks or lingers 



batmannow said:


> Yes mk you right!
> But I like crocodile ,s meat, its a common paractice all over far east including china?
> Anyway our holybook allows us, to eat anything just to be alive in certain , I think we all shall, think in a more educated manner, specialy the young chaps?
> Here


----------



## F.O.X

Nice Make Up

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## jobsikd

Pakistan SSG group force is considered in the Top 3 commandos forces... and off course they are the best.


----------



## valkyr_96

My cousin talked about getting a 'dip' after the whole class was found sleeping -in the class can anyone elaborate?


----------



## Abingdonboy

jobsikd said:


> Pakistan SSG group force is considered in the Top 3 commandos forces... and off course they are the best.


By whom exactly???

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## Xeric

valkyr_96 said:


> My cousin talked about getting a 'dip' after the whole class was found sleeping -in the class can anyone elaborate?



Though sleeping is not an offence but during training all of them are just looking for an excuse to punish you, the case you mentioned was a result of the same.

Dip can vary from location to location. It can be clean tap water during a night when it is snowing, it can also be a mud slush created specifically for the purpose by digging out a small hole in the ground and then filling it with water thus converting it into something like a marsh, and if your luck has ran out already, dip also means a nice bath inside a gutter/sewerage.

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## Windjammer

May be not an SSG but a Pak Marine.

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## Jango

Which grenade launcher is that? Does not look like the standard Steyr AUG GL.


----------



## Kompromat

Windjammer said:


> May be not an SSG but a Pak Marine.




That is similar to Australian army camo, is it SSGN or Marines?


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## Windjammer

Aeronaut said:


> That is similar to Australian army camo, is it SSGN or Marines?



I think this is Marine Commo, the SSGN is a different pattern.

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## Imran Khan

Aeronaut said:


> That is similar to Australian army camo, is it SSGN or Marines?



i think he is 
ASUO Aizaz Khattak is currently representing Pakistan at Royal Military College, Duntroon, Australia.

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## Windjammer

*A well earned break.*

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## Skywalker

And here comes a burning Indian A$$, just enjoy the kids comments use your trolling skills somewhere else.



Abingdonboy said:


> By whom exactly???

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## Inception-06

Windjammer said:


> *A well earned break.*



good to see the upgradet Puma Fleet, are this pictures from a current operation ?

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar...puma_canon/images/sa330_puma_canon_6_of_6.jpg

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## Inception-06

.....but it is sad to see that the Puma Helicopters have not get the installation of a board gun under the upgrade programm, worke like this can be also done in Pakistan. Why the Pakistani Mi-17 and Puma Helis never get a board MG ?

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar...puma_canon/images/sa330_puma_canon_6_of_6.jpg


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## Bratva



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## Windjammer

*
Pakistan's Pride.*

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## Windjammer



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## Last Hope

Windjammer said:


>



I cannot recall his name, but he is a Shaheed.


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## Windjammer

Last Hope said:


> I cannot recall his name, but he is a Shaheed.



Capt Salman Farooq Lodhi (Shaheed).!!!

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## fatman17

Ulla said:


> good to see the upgradet Puma Fleet, are this pictures from a current operation ?
> 
> http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar...puma_canon/images/sa330_puma_canon_6_of_6.jpg



these were 6 ex-uae puma's delivered to PK and upgraded.

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## Inception-06

fatman17 said:


> these were 6 ex-uae puma's delivered to PK and upgraded.



And why without any Board Gun ? Why the old (home) fleet does not get any upgraded ? (sorry for my critical questions


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## JonAsad

Does any one have any background about this pix?


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## Jango

JonAsad said:


> Does any one have any background about this pix?



This has been discussed to death on this forum a couple of times.

This is from a scene from a ISPR production.

And a brother of a martyred officer if I am not mistaken, portraying his brother in the movie.(???)

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## Aamir Hussain

Windjammer said:


> May be not an SSG but a Pak Marine.



Seems like this not PakMarine Cammo or the pattern. The round edges are not used in our camo pattern if I am not mistaken.


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## Aamir Hussain

Windjammer said:


> *A well earned break.*



Notcie the third Puma? The one fartherest away, it hasa bigger sponsoon over the wheels. Any idea why it is so?


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## Aamir Hussain

Windjammer said:


>



Hmmm. Two tactical radios, Carbiner for rapelling, NVG, Side arm, and I think quick cuffs! Interesting load-out.

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## Jango

Aamir Hussain said:


> Notcie the third Puma? The one fartherest away, it hasa bigger sponsoon over the wheels. Any idea why it is so?



It can be used as additional fuel tank.

So maybe a bit more fuel for the said Puma.



Aamir Hussain said:


> Seems like this not PakMarine Cammo or the pattern. The round edges are not used in our camo pattern if I am not mistaken.



As I understand it, it is of the Pakistani officer in Royal Military college Australia, as WindJammer pointed out.

The other picture of him in desert camo, and this one point to it IMO>

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## Last Hope

nuclearpak said:


> This has been discussed to death on this forum a couple of times.
> 
> This is from a scene from a ISPR production.
> 
> And a brother of a martyred officer if I am not mistaken, portraying his brother in the movie.(???)


Captain Bilal Zafar Shaheed. The movie's name is Faseel-e-Jaan Se Aagay - Ghazanosar Ka Hero



Aamir Hussain said:


> Seems like this not PakMarine Cammo or the pattern. The round edges are not used in our camo pattern if I am not mistaken.


Pakistani trainee in Australian academy, wearing Australian camouflage.

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## batmannow

should be pushed at a seprate divisional level?

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## Windjammer



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## Bratva

Trainees have to undergo forced marches in which they have to cross
36 miles of rugged terrain in nine hours while wearing full combat
loads. Typical exercises involve round-the-clock movement for five days and nights without sleep, while carrying only two days worth of food and water. Once that runs out, they must live off the land and the few villages in the area are kept under surveillance by the trainers. If captured, they are thrown into the dungeons of Attock Fort and
subjected to a gruelling process of interrogation. Among those who
break down during the five-day exercise, the common refrain is SSG
dozakh hai (SSG is hell).

Those who finally make it, earn the distinction of wearing the maroon
beret and the coveted SSG badge on their chest. These men are too
precious to be wasted in the activities of conventional soldiers, yet
even those who should know better continue to misuse them for
guard duties and personal security functions. Occasionally SSG troops tend to misuse their skills as well, which is exactly what happened when one of the SSG units was due to be inspected by a GHQ team. There ws a growing sense of anxiety in the unit as many of their
jeeps had become unserviceable for want of spare parts which were
not forthcoming. Faced with this problem, they solved it in true SSG
style. A night before the inspection, a few men stealthily penetrated
the motor park of an artillery unit some 20 kilometres away, and went
about removing the required parts from the jeeps parked there. Having completed their job quickly and in silence, they returned to base and
used the stolen parts in their own jeeps. Lo and behold, when
inspection time came around, the unserviceable jeeps were up and
running. The following morning, when the commanding officer of the artillery unit learned that his jeeps had been mysteriously cannibalised, he nearly collapsed and had to undergo overnight hospitalisation. SSG commandos are trained  in the words of Hannibal  to find a
way or make one. They had done just that, but GHQ was not amused
to say the least.

tribune.com.pk/story/462715/the-phantom-soldiers/


P.S. The militants contrived a way to hit the company at its base in Tarbel most likely using the help of their sympathisers in the base itself. These sympathisers acquired C4 plastic explosive from the company armoury, placed it in the mess, and detonated it by remote control killing 22 soldiers.

(original story was suicide bomber with a white beard wearing suicide vest rode a bicycle towards mess and blow himself outside the mess)


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## airbus101

The phantom soldiers &#8211; The Express Tribune

On a sultry night in September 1965, a convoy of heavy trailers transporting Indian tanks was moving on a road in Indian Kashmir when it suddenly came under rocket and machine gun fire. A dozen tanks exploded and burst into flames.
In early December 1971, shortly after midnight, a column of Indian infantry was moving towards the front to reinforce a position that was under attack.
Suddenly, the silence of the night was broken as sweeping machine gun fire came in from the flanks. Within minutes of the attack, the entire column had perished.
In all three cases the phantom soldiers who conducted these attacks were the chosen ones of the Pakistan Army &#8212; commandos of the Special Services Group (SSG).
They struck as if out of nowhere and then disappeared into the darkness like ghosts. Raised in 1956 by Major General Aboobaker Osman Mitha with the mandate of specialising in asymmetrical warfare, the SSG has since gone from brigade to division strength, and now has about 3,000 active members.
Until the late sixties, the SSG had maintained a low profile, as befits a force that relies on stealth and secrecy. But when it was decided to raise its profile by sending a contingent to participate in the Republic Day parade in Rawalpindi, few within the SSG opposed it.
The few who did dissent were overruled in any case. Eventually a compromise was reached and when the actual event took place, the SSG was seen wearing their signature maroon berets and running at a steady pace while chanting &#8216;Ali, Ali&#8217; rhythmically.
By contrast, the other army contingents marched instead of running. And so it remained until the parade itself was suspended indefinitely for security reasons.
Skilled in the use of weapons, the SSG are trained to handle machine guns, sub-machine guns and pistols as if these were extensions of their bodies.
They are trained to fire from the hip with speed and accuracy, even when on the move. Experts in unarmed combat, they are deadly even with no weapons other than their hands and feet.
Given their training in unconventional warfare, the SSG also learn how to guard against its use by the enemy. As such, they are the unit of choice when it comes to both guerrilla and anti-guerrilla operations.
But of all the varied operations the SSG are called on to conduct, the most demanding are those that are carried out deep behind enemy lines &#8212; cut off from supplies, support or even an escape route.
Such operations require the highest state of physical and mental toughness, resourcefulness, and the ability to remain cool and motivated far beyond the bounds of conventional human endurance.
Selection for service with the SSG is, therefore, tough. Volunteers from all over the army apply but two-thirds are rejected during the initial selection phase, and one-third of the selected fall out during the training phase due to lack of physical and mental resilience displayed during the training.
Trainees have to undergo forced marches in which they have to cross 36 miles of rugged terrain in nine hours while wearing full combat loads.
Typical exercises involve round-the-clock movement for five days and nights without sleep, while carrying only two days worth of food and water.
Once that runs out, they must live off the land and the few villages in the area are kept under surveillance by the trainers.
If captured, they are thrown into the dungeons of Attock Fort and subjected to a gruelling process of interrogation. Among those who break down during the five-day exercise, the common refrain is &#8220;SSG dozakh hai&#8221; (SSG is hell).
Those who finally make it, earn the distinction of wearing the maroon beret and the coveted SSG badge on their chest. These men are too precious to be wasted in the activities of conventional soldiers, yet even those who should know better continue to misuse them for guard duties and personal security functions.
Occasionally SSG troops tend to misuse their skills as well, which is exactly what happened when one of the SSG units was due to be inspected by a GHQ team.
There was a growing sense of anxiety in the unit as many of their jeeps had become unserviceable for want of spare parts which were not forthcoming. Faced with this problem, they solved it in true SSG style. A night before the inspection, a few men stealthily penetrated the motor park of an artillery unit some 20 kilometres away, and went about removing the required parts from the jeeps parked there. Having completed their job quickly and in silence, they returned to base and used the stolen parts in their own jeeps. Lo and behold, when inspection time came around, the unserviceable jeeps were up and running.
The following morning, when the commanding officer of the artillery unit learned that his jeeps had been mysteriously cannibalised, he nearly collapsed and had to undergo overnight hospitalisation.
SSG commandos are trained &#8212; in the words of Hannibal &#8212; to &#8220;find a way or make one&#8221;. They had done just that, but GHQ was not amused to say the least.
Whether the target is automobile parts or an enemy position, an SSG operation is typically conducted in five phases: planning, preparation, infiltration, attack, and exfiltration.
Of course, while it is also a truism that &#8220;no plan survives contact with the enemy,&#8221; the single greatest factor in the success of an SSG operation is the achievement of surprise.
When the plan is not based on precise and accurate intelligence the element of surprise is compromised, as happened to the SSG operations in September 1965 against the Indian airbases at Pathankot, Adampur and Halwara. Hastily planned and based on outdated intelligence and maps, these operations all ended in disaster.
The topographical changes that had taken place in the area of operations were missing from the maps.
The result was that most of the commandos landed in settlements that were not supposed to be there. As a consequence, within minutes of their landing, the alarm was raised. With the element of surprise lost, the odds were now stacked against them.
The next 48 hours saw them fighting running battles with their pursuers until their ammunition ran out. The cream of the army had been sacrificed in a needless operation against targets that were subsequently taken out by the PAF many times over.
SSG teams infiltrate behind enemy lines either by land, air or sea. Insertion by land is hazardous and time-consuming as it involves crossing the frontlines, whereas the air option, in which the preferred means is by helicopter, is the least hazardous and quickest.
But when helicopter insertion is precluded, freefall parachutes are used to make either HALO (high altitude, low opening) or HAHO (high altitude, high opening) jumps. HALO jumps are made inside the enemy territory, with the parachute being opened low, while HAHO jumps are made inside one&#8217;s own territory close to the border, with the parachute being opened high, and then manoeuvred towards the area designated for landing inside the enemy territory.
Having landed, whether by helicopter or parachute, they begin the final approach to the target, and once they get within striking distance, all hell is let loose. Minutes later, they are gone as suddenly as they had come, leaving behind a trail of blood and destruction.
Now begins exfiltration, the most challenging of all phases. The quickest way is extraction by helicopter. But the real challenge, especially in the plains, is when this option is ruled out.
It is now that their physical and mental toughness, resourcefulness and the ability to remain cool and motivated come under a severe test, as they struggle to get back across a broad expanse of hostile territory with the enemy in hot pursuit.
The SSG is a small force, but when employed correctly it can inflict damages on the enemy out of proportion to its size. When viewed against the fact that in most conceivable scenarios the Pakistan army will have to fight a future conventional war while outnumbered, the SSG becomes a critical force multiplier.
Therefore, it is best used in support of the army&#8217;s offensives to create a strategic impact on the enemy that can then be exploited by conventional forces.
In 1965, for example, if the army had followed up Operation Grand Slam with another offensive in the Ravi-Chenab corridor, the SSG could have been employed simultaneously against the Headworks on River Ravi and the crossings on River Beas ahead of the offensive.
These actions would have isolated the Ravi-Chenab corridor and delayed the induction of Indian army formations into the Ravi-Beas corridor, thus giving a decisive lead to Pakistani war directors in all the dimensions of operational strategy.
Having missed the opportunity to win the war in 1965, they should have atoned for it by doing the same in October 1971 when the build-up of Indian forces against East Pakistan was well underway. Unfortunately for Pakistan, they missed this opportunity too.
In the two wars directed by them, the performance of Pakistan&#8217;s military planners was marked by a lack of imagination and daring. Stated simply, they had the force but did not know how to use it. Fortunately for Pakistan, the Indian captains of war were equally, or even more, incompetent.
The bane of any SSG operation is faulty intelligence and a lack of effective follow-up by regular troops. An example of the latter can be found in the frozen wastes of Siachen.
The Indian Army built up a large force to defend the 80 kilometre-long Saltoro Range ridgeline (the gateway to Siachen Glacier), and since then, the Pakistanis have sought to gain a foothold on the ridge line, with the Indians successfully denying it.
In early April 1987, after several attempts had failed, a small force consisting of about a dozen SSG commandos, using ropes and ladders, went up a vertical cliff and occupied a position at over 21,000 ft that dominated the Indian positions at Bilafond La. They named it Quaid post.
The Indian Army made several attempts to evict the commandos but each time they were repulsed with heavy casualties.
However, on June 25, 1987, they succeeded in taking the post as the commandos had run out of ammunition and could not be resupplied for the base supporting them had come under fire. With the only foothold on the ridgeline lost, the Pakistan Army launched a major attack in September to get to Bilafond La, but was repulsed.
Operation Silence, the SSG operation against the Jamia Hafsa/Lal Masjid complex was ultimately a victim of poor intelligence, quite unlike Operation Nimrod &#8212; the British SAS (Special Air Service) operation in May 1980 against six terrorists who had seized the Iranian embassy in London and taken 26 people hostage.
The SAS had complete information about the terrorists, hostages and the 50-room, six-storied embassy, and had even carried out rehearsals on full size replicas. The result was that the operation involving 50 SAS troops took only 17 minutes to eliminate the terrorists and rescue the hostages.
In glaring contrast, Operation Silence was launched on what was, at best, sketchy information about the number of people holed up inside the complex. Even today a controversy is raging about the number of people present in the complex at the time of the operation.
How many were there and how many among them were hostages? If there were hostages, were they lodged separately, and if so, where? How many militants were armed and what weapons did they have? Where were the militants deployed?
These questions must have been raised by the SSG, but were clearly left unanswered. The fact that none inside the complex survived the attack, clearly shows that the SSG was given to understand that everyone inside was armed and dangerous.
That those inside were able to resist the SSG for so long and inflict casualties on them, is a testimony to their preparedness and grit, and the fact that the SSG cleared the complex despite fighting blind is a reflection on its ability to deliver even in adverse conditions.
But the SSG&#8217;s Zarrar company, which had carried out the attack, would soon face retaliation of a most unexpected nature.
The militants contrived a way to hit the company at its base in Tarbela &#8212; most likely using the help of their sympathisers in the base itself.
These sympathisers acquired C4 plastic explosive from the company&#8217;s armoury, placed it in the mess, and detonated it by remote control, killing 22 soldiers.
As a consequence, military installations across the country became vulnerable, as shown by the attacks on GHQ, and the Mehran and Kamra bases among others.
The vulnerability is very real, as is the sense of fear and uncertainty in the minds of the commanders. But here too, the special skills of the SSG can be put to good use.
After the 1965 war, Air Marshal Nur Khan had ordered upgrades in the security of all PAF bases and raised units of Ground Combateers (GCs) for this purpose.
To test their effectiveness he employed the SSG to carry out mock attacks against the facilities. Valuable lessons were learnt by the PAF, which were implemented and then retested, with better results for the PAF.
Given the vulnerability of military installations across the country, the Service Chiefs, who must have developed plans for the security of their installations, should also ask the SSG to test the efficacy of their plans. The results would shock them.
The 2009 army operations in Swat and South Waziristan succeeded in ending the insurgencies there, but were unable to prevent them from escaping to other places in the region.
After successfully relocating, these militants have managed to continue to not only stage hit-and-run attacks like the one on Malala and her friends, but also to fight pitched battles like in Bajaur last month.
How long it will take for the army to crush the insurgency that has enveloped the country and threatens to undermine its foundation, nobody can surmise, least of all the army.
But what one can say with certainty is that the war against the insurgency in the tribal areas will become a war without end, unless the requisite amount of force is employed.
This must be in line with a strategy that seeks to isolate the theatre of operations prior to the offensive in order to prevent the enemy from ingressing into it or escaping from it.
Again, this cannot be done without a holistic strategy that includes the judicious use of the SSG.
In Operation Rah-e-Raast in Swat, the notably successful action by the SSG was its surprise assault on the Peochar heights, a dominating position occupied by the insurgents.
Descending from helicopters, the commandos quickly secured the heights, then attacked downhill, forcing the insurgents to descend into the waiting arms of the infantry in the valley. This ultimately led them to flee and live to fight another day.
In the two Waziristans, the SSG&#8217;s employment started in 2002, leading up to Operation Rah-e-Nijaat in 2009. During this period they conducted several operations in conjunction with elements of 12 Corps against foreign fighters and their local partners, who, in almost all cases, managed to get away.
This failing, like so many others, resulted from inaccurate intelligence and the loss of surprise caused by the accompanying infantry.
During Rah-e-Nijaat, the SSG was mostly employed in support of the infantry columns that advanced from three directions to secure the &#8216;critical space&#8217; of the insurgents in the triangle formed by Makeen-Ladha-Sararogha.
The well advertised Rah-e-Nijaat and the conventional strategy adopted for it compromised the key element of surprise, thus giving enough time to the insurgents to escape to other places in the region.
Had the SSG been employed to open the campaign by seizing the heights dominating Makeen, Ladha and Sararogha in a surprise heliborne assault, the bulk of insurgents would have found it difficult to escape.
Special Forces are precision instruments. While surprise is their main weapon, their success also depends on the quality of intelligence, since their operational plans are based on it.
In a war against insurgency they are the only instrument of the army that can create fear and uncertainty in the minds of the insurgents, a situation that should repeatedly be exploited by the army to break the militants both mentally and physically.
There is no place for orthodoxy and inflexibility in war, least of all in this war. You adapt or you die.
*The author is a former member of the SSG
Published in The Express Tribune, Sunday Magazine, November 11th, 2012.

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## F.O.X

WarninG a little Graphical , Its a part of survival exercise of SSG , & its a Rabbit not a Cat .

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## Jango

This looks awfully similar to the Saudi guys being trained by SSG. No shirts, skin colour, colour of trouser of guy in the back etc.






I heard something like this (eating animals) also goes on in School of Infantry in Quetta during survival training.

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## F.O.X

nuclearpak said:


> This looks awfully similar to the Saudi guys being trained by SSG. No shirts, skin colour, colour of trouser of guy in the back etc.



When you stay under Sun for as long as SSG Trainees does , this color become your natural color

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## Rajput_Pakistani

Hi dears,

Does anyone know about or have got video of Brig T.M Tiger (shaheed) during Horse & Cattle Show 1986-87 Fortress Stadium Lahore. I was a kid then and witnessed that breath taking stunt. T.M sir, hanging upside down from a helicopter with a sling 1800 feet in air and released himself from the chain.

If anyone please have a video of that kindly share.

Regards


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## Inception-06

nuclearpak said:


> This looks awfully similar to the Saudi guys being trained by SSG. No shirts, skin colour, colour of trouser of guy in the back etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I heard something like this (eating animals) also goes on in School of Infantry in Quetta during survival training.



THis so called survival training should be held in every Divison !


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## Ark-Angel

Ulla said:


> THis so called survival training should be held in every Divison !



I bet majority would not be ready to undergo this training. This is what I call the hardest part of SSG training... Being an unarmed combatant or a sea diver or a paratrooper or a mountaineer is easy... Survival training is the hard part.

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## SLR722

Are you guys talking about SERE training?
Survival,evasion,resistance and escape..


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## Tehmasib



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## Nouman shahid

*Pakistan Zindabad.*

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## A.Razzaq

PAK ARMY Special Services Group.








Jinnah Was Born To Make Pakistan..
And I Am Born To Save It..!!!!!

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## Gentelman

A.Razzaq said:


> PAK ARMY Special Services Group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jinnah Was Born To Make Pakistan..
> And I Am Born To Save It..!!!!!



I like the boots used by SSG...
they are preety awsome....
me too wanna some like them...

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## A.Razzaq

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/533173_209986845780519_2095555080_n.jpg

SSG Sniper..


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## S.Y.A

i saw a video of navy commandos, their hands and feet were tied and they were made to jump in water, and were trained to float even when tied

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## Last Hope

S.Y.A said:


> i saw a video of navy commandos, their hands and feet were tied and they were made to jump in water, and were trained to float even when tied


This is very much true, same as jumping off cliffs.


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## A.Razzaq

SSG commando in action &#9829; &#9829;

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## A.Razzaq

SSG Sniper..

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## Stealth

A.Razzaq said:


> SSG commando in action &#9829; &#9829;




*They are not SSG Commando.. not a single picture of any Pakistani Soldier like this available on the internet .... these are "AUSTRALIAN SPECIAL FORCES". Please do some research before posting pictures brother.*


Image Galleries 2006 - Department of Defence

*PS: I also need Pakistani Special Forces pictures in High-Resolution like we have seen in past exhibitions "especially IDEAS 2006" where our SSGN having same gadgets demo/promo presented. 

I have almost all pictures of Pakistani SSG, SSGN "which are available on the INTERNET". Infact i am extremely disappoint that not a single good quality picture available just only 2 - 5 pics of Pakistani snipers (which are already in bad quality). Few SSG and very small in numbers of SSGN. People here in Pakistan having "UNSEEN PUBLIC VIEW PICTURES" in their Laptops/PC per share karwatay moooth parti hai isliye we have only few 1600X above size unseen "NEW" pictures available on the internet.*

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## A.Razzaq



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## A.Razzaq

The Back Crawling During Training!

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## A.Razzaq



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## S-A-B-E-R->

A.Razzaq said:


> The Back Crawling During Training!


can some one identify the weapon in second pic?..



A.Razzaq said:


> PAK ARMY Special Services Group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jinnah Was Born To Make Pakistan..
> And I Am Born To Save It..!!!!!


i think ssg should think abt getting the new helmet design with space to compensate for comm headsets like the one us sf wear these days


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## A.Razzaq

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> can some one identify the weapon in second pic?..
> 
> 
> 
> i think ssg should think abt getting the new helmet design with space to compensate for comm headsets like the one us sf wear these days



i think the weapon is modified G3






this is the new helmet with night-vision

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## naseem shah

A.Razzaq said:


> i think the weapon is modified G3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is the new helmet with night-vision


it is new modified ak 47

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## jaibi

Pride of Pakistan: SSG!

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## S-A-B-E-R->

A.Razzaq said:


> i think the weapon is modified G3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is the new helmet with night-vision



i dont think so g3 have a larger magazine to house 7.62x51 that seems like a smaller mag for either 5.56 or 45 cal bullets..also the upper receive is smaller than the one on g3 more of a SMG built to it....also the loading liver is on the upper receive not above the barrel as on G#
the helmet i am talking about it this one
http://www.paintballtacticalgear.com/images/Integrated_Training_Special_Force_Helmet.jpg
http://www.bulletproofbodyarmorhq.com/images/special.jpg
see the space to house a head set...as u can see the helmet on ssg commando is tilted due to the ear piece he is wearing...


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## Amaa'n

Its Sig Sg550 assault rifle, niw at this angle its hard to tell which version is this 5.56, 7.62 x 51 or .22lr for training

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## A.Razzaq

freinds me and S-A-B-E-R-> was talking about this gun..

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## S-A-B-E-R->

balixd said:


> Its Sig Sg550 assault rifle, niw at this angle its hard to tell which version is this 5.56, 7.62 x 51 or .22lr for training



thnx i believe its the 22lr version cuz the mag is quite small for 5.56 or 7.62

for those who want to know more
SIG SG 550 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Amaa'n

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> thnx i believe its the 22lr version cuz the mag is quite small for 5.56 or 7.62
> 
> for those who want to know more
> SIG SG 550 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


it could be .22LR,as used widely around the world for training purposes due to its low cost on ammo, but I have my doubts about it because look at the size of Muzzle and barrel width, looks too big for .22lr

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## DevilDog

Pakistan's finest huh? What's equipment of a standart SSG Commando? I mean both Assault Rifles and Optics. (Ex: a NSW Operator uses CM901 with CompM4 Optic, SureFire Grip, Modified Mags, IR Laser, HK.45CT Pistol)


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## airomerix

A.Razzaq said:


> The Back Crawling During Training!



The weapon in the second pic is the lighter and shorter version of the G-3. It was also on display at IDEAS'12.


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## A.Razzaq

airomerix said:


> The weapon in the second pic is the lighter and shorter version of the G-3. It was also on display at IDEAS'12.


This is Pretty good version...


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## airomerix

A.Razzaq said:


> This is Pretty good version...



Yeah. Was pretty handy. Its an indigenous product of POF.

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## DevilDog

It's a G3A4


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## Kompromat

Pakistani Cdos Participated in Cormorant Strike III 2012 in Sri Lanka

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## SEAL

DevilDog said:


> Pakistan's finest huh? What's equipment of a standart SSG Commando? I mean both Assault Rifles and Optics. (Ex: a NSW Operator uses CM901 with CompM4 Optic, SureFire Grip, Modified Mags, IR Laser, HK.45CT Pistol)



SSG is different from NSW, Green Beret will be more appropriate. 
They use many types of rifles but most seen in SSG is M4A1 SOPMOD and modified AK-47/Type56 with Aimpoint red *** sights.

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## Kompromat



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## A.Razzaq

DevilDog said:


> It's a G3A4



It,s not a G3A4

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## Kompromat

A.Razzaq said:


> It,s not a G3A4



These are Colt M4A1

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## A.Razzaq

Aeronaut said:


> These are Colt M4A1



I know bro!


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## DevilDog

No it was an G3A4. But the ones in your picture. Yes they are M4 Carbine. Not M4A1


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## Amaa'n

airomerix said:


> The weapon in the second pic is the lighter and shorter version of the G-3. It was also on display at IDEAS'12.



Hate to disagree with you but you are wrong, the gun you are talking about is totally a different gun, let me look for a picture of that gun and i will post it here, but am sure this is not g3 varient but sg550
Edit: found the picture, this was taken last month at a firearm exhibition in Islamabad





http://db.tt/tqppqnW7


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## Amaa'n

Aeronaut said:


>



Wow, they love Chinese weapons don't they


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## Fieldmarshal

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> i dont think so g3 have a larger magazine to house 7.62x51 that seems like a smaller mag for either 5.56 or 45 cal bullets..also the upper receive is smaller than the one on g3 more of a SMG built to it....also the loading liver is on the upper receive not above the barrel as on G#
> the helmet i am talking about it this one
> http://www.paintballtacticalgear.com/images/Integrated_Training_Special_Force_Helmet.jpg
> http://www.bulletproofbodyarmorhq.com/images/special.jpg
> see the space to house a head set...as u can see the helmet on ssg commando is tilted due to the ear piece he is wearing...



SSG commando in the pic is carring a very standard chinese varient (type 56) of the soviet ak-47. the only modifaction it has is that it has been attached with add on accessiories, like scope and front hand grip etc and its most certainly 7.62.

i dont know wt ur look at mate


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## Fieldmarshal

Aeronaut said:


> These are Colt M4A1


m4 is a show poney and has failed misweably , so muxh so that even u.s special forces personal were forced to switch to other weapons due to its cronic jamming issue.

SSg only uses it at demo for vip security duties but never in any conflicy envirment where the weapon of choice is the type 56



balixd said:


> Wow, they love Chinese weapons don't they



this a pic from a joint exercise with the chinese in which both testeach others weapons


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## Amaa'n

Fieldmarshal said:


> m4 is a show poney and has failed misweably , so muxh so that even u.s special forces personal were forced to switch to other weapons due to its cronic jamming issue.
> 
> SSg only uses it at demo for vip security duties but never in any conflicy envirment where the weapon of choice is the type 56
> 
> 
> 
> this a pic from a joint exercise with the chinese in which both testeach others weapons



I know sir but i was pointing to the fact that we use Chinese type 56, Chinese multi Grenade launcher,


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## DevilDog

Yup. M4 is a failure but CM901 ? (Mk18 Mod 1) I don't think so. Anyway i saw colts in a pic. What's the % of the M4 in SSG's inventory? I mean in assault rifles? 
BTW I used both M4A1 and M16A4. M16 goes all the ways.


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## Amaa'n

DevilDog said:


> Yup. M4 is a failure but CM901 ? (Mk18 Mod 1) I don't think so. Anyway i saw colts in a pic. What's the % of the M4 in SSG's inventory? I mean in assault rifles?
> BTW I used both M4A1 and M16A4. M16 goes all the ways.



You just stole my words brother, i was about to say the same, the gear in use by NS is preety beefed up and all the parts are custom made, but i think even they use it only for cqb,

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## S-A-B-E-R->

Fieldmarshal said:


> SSG commando in the pic is carring a very standard chinese varient (type 56) of the soviet ak-47. the only modifaction it has is that it has been attached with add on accessiories, like scope and front hand grip etc and its most certainly 7.62.
> 
> i dont know wt ur look at mate


mate i am talking abt a different pic..the second one with ssg commando on the ground with black polish on his face...and the weapon he is holding is a SIG 550...
go to poste 755 there is the pic



airomerix said:


> The weapon in the second pic is the lighter and shorter version of the G-3. It was also on display at IDEAS'12.



no its a sig 550 ...lighter G3 or POF pk weapon do not have the loading liver on rite side of upper receiver it is above the barrel and on left side...

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## DevilDog

balixd said:


> You just stole my words brother, i was about to say the same, the gear in use by NS is preety beefed up and all the parts are custom made, but i think even they use it only for cqb,



yeah you're right. In fact CM901 "Mk18 MOD 1" is based on cqbr. not m4. I think it's the best assault rifle on the planet.


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## DevilDog

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> mate i am talking abt a different pic..the second one with ssg commando on the ground with black polish on his face...and the weapon he is holding is a SIG 550...
> go to poste 755 there is the pic
> 
> 
> 
> no its a sig 550 ...lighter G3 or POF pk weapon do not have the loading liver on rite side of upper receiver it is above the barrel and on left side...



three possibilities;
G3A4
G3KA4
H&K33 (I don't think that Pakistan has it)


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## Amaa'n

DevilDog said:


> yeah you're right. In fact CM901 "Mk18 MOD 1" is based on cqbr. not m4. I think it's the best assault rifle on the planet.


I would call it more like SMG rather than assault rifle with its barrel length of 12". See how NSW operators moved from MP5sd to this platform, Don't forget some of the SF operators at frontline are using SABR or M14 mod


and sir As i have seen and my knowledge serves me G3 charging handle at the front left side, where as the gun in picture has the charging handle on right side above the trigger just like AK-47, so how can you say it is G3 platform

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## Amaa'n

Specs for CM901 aka MK 18 mod 1 , currently in use by US Navy Seals. This is more than just Sopmod.


olt upper
Colt BCG
Colt 10.3" barrel
Mk12 gas block
KAC flash suppressor
KAC M4 QD sound suppressor
FDE DD Mk18 RIS II w either 3 ladder panels in tan or 3 different size rail covers in tan
Matech or any other issued BUIS
KAC folding front sight
M4A1 or upgraded M16A1 lower
tan SOPMOD or other issued stock
CQD sling attachment plate
black A2 grip
FDE SpecterDR, Comp M4, or other issued sight
Insight or any other issued white light
PEQ-15
any sling

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## A.Razzaq

SSG ALSO USE THIS ...







For those who think that SSG is not well equipped with weapons and are still using the old AK-47s and SMGs. The answer for that is.. SMG is much better weapon than any foreign weapon!


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## DevilDog

It wasn't for the ak47 . I meant the picture in the previous page

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## Kompromat

DevilDog said:


> Yup. M4 is a failure but CM901 ? (Mk18 Mod 1) I don't think so. Anyway i saw colts in a pic. What's the % of the M4 in SSG's inventory? I mean in assault rifles?
> BTW I used both M4A1 and M16A4. M16 goes all the ways.



SSG acquired quite a lot of M4s in the past but its not an operational success.


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## DevilDog

Thanks man


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## Amaa'n

A.Razzaq said:


> SSG ALSO USE THIS ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those who think that SSG is not well equipped with weapons and are still using the old AK-47s and SMGs. The answer for that is.. SMG is much better weapon than any foreign weapon!



Mp5k is also in use by islamabad police and asf, nothing special about it

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## Windjammer



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## Slav Defence

balixd said:


> Mp5k is also in use by islamabad police and asf, nothing special about it



these ladies are tooo beautiful to ignore.......very impressive



A.Razzaq said:


> SSG ALSO USE THIS ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those who think that SSG is not well equipped with weapons and are still using the old AK-47s and SMGs. The answer for that is.. SMG is much better weapon than any foreign weapon!



these ladies are too beautiful to ignore....!!!!excellent!!!

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## Koovie

A.Razzaq said:


>



Never saw such a MP 5 with a non pistol caliber. Made by POF?

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## Windjammer



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## Windjammer

*
"We stamp our blood on an agreement at the passing out parade to shed our blood for the nation"*

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## Jango

Windjammer said:


>



This is from the training with US Seals in Bahrain I think...



Windjammer said:


>



Quite a portfolio..skydiver, scuba, mountaineer!!!


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## Amaa'n

nuclearpak said:


> This is from the training with US Seals in Bahrain I think...
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a portfolio..skydiver, scuba, mountaineer!!!


Check the logo on the trouser and shirt of the guy on the left, doesn't look like a navy seals logo to me, however the equipment in use here is used by seals, isn't it?


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## Jango

balixd said:


> Check the logo on the trouser and shirt of the guy on the left, doesn't look like a navy seals logo to me, however the equipment in use here is used by seals, isn't it?



Yeah, both Pakistani and US trainers were present, this happened a couple of years ago if I remember correctly.


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## Windjammer

nuclearpak said:


> This is from the training with US Seals in Bahrain I think...
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a portfolio..skydiver, scuba, mountaineer!!!


 @nuclearpak
Not quite sure, here's another shot of the same, can't make out any other except the SSG guys.

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## Jango

Windjammer said:


> @nuclearpak
> Not quite sure, here's another shot of the same, can't make out any other except the SSG guys.



My bad...

There was a pic of SSGn(N) training with US Navy SEAL's, and the SSG(N) had similar kind of breathing apparatus on them.

BTW, what is that thing? Any specialized name?


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## Last Hope

nuclearpak said:


> My bad...
> 
> There was a pic of SSGn(N) training with US Navy SEAL's, and the SSG(N) had similar kind of breathing apparatus on them.
> 
> BTW, what is that thing? Any specialized name?



You mean this:






Picture from June 13, 2011. 
"Chief Navy Diver Aaron Knight, right, assigned to Commander, Task Group (CTG) 56.1, and Pakistani divers conduct a familiarization dive during a weeklong diving and salvage exchange. The divers conducted scuba operations, *anti-terrorism force-protection training dives, underwater search techniques and diving fundamentals* during the exchange. CTG 56.1 provides maritime security operations and theater security cooperation efforts in the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Martin L. Carey/Released)"

Bold part is the probably answer to your question.


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## Jango

Last Hope said:


> You mean this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picture from June 13, 2011.
> "Chief Navy Diver Aaron Knight, right, assigned to Commander, Task Group (CTG) 56.1, and Pakistani divers conduct a familiarization dive during a weeklong diving and salvage exchange. The divers conducted scuba operations, anti-terrorism force-protection training dives, underwater search techniques and diving fundamentals during the exchange. CTG 56.1 provides maritime security operations and theater security cooperation efforts in the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Martin L. Carey/Released)"



Yup, that's the one I believe. There was a sequence of pics somewhere which showed the same box like breathing equipment.


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## Amaa'n

nuclearpak said:


> My bad...
> 
> There was a pic of SSGn(N) training with US Navy SEAL's, and the SSG(N) had similar kind of breathing apparatus on them.
> 
> BTW, what is that thing? Any specialized name?



That thing is called (if i remember correctly) , LAR V Draegar, its basically a closed circuit breathing system, where exhaled air is filtered out and converted back to oxygen. It doesn't give out bubbles.
And i am surprised to see SSG N, using it because i thought seals were the only one using it

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## untitled

Koovie said:


> Never saw such a MP 5 with a non pistol caliber. Made by POF?








The MAG maybe 7.62 x 39 since a POF G3 carbine fires the same round

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## Fieldmarshal

nuclearpak said:


> Quite a portfolio..skydiver, scuba, mountaineer!!!



not to forget the glider.



persona_non_grata said:


> The MAG maybe 7.62 x 39 since a POF G3 carbine fires the same round



this looks like darra made rather than POF


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## DESERT FIGHTER




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## TaimiKhan

Pakistani Nationalist said:


>



Is the pic of one of our guys ??


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## Strigon

>


Are these our people? Everyone of them is well built, physically.


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## Jango

Strigon said:


> Are these our people? Everyone of them is well built, physically.



Answered a million times before, they are Saudi trainees.


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## Amaa'n

TaimiKhan said:


> Is the pic of one of our guys ??



Nope, these are not our guys, it wasn't even taken in pakistan. I don't know why people keep on sharing this picture


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## Kompromat

Marines






Team Work [SSG]

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## muse

Really hate the Nazi helmet for Pakistani armed forces. There's just something not right about it -- And no baseball caps either -- Still want the duck bill, sure but why a ball cap?


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## gangsta_rap

muse said:


> Really hate the Nazi helmet for Pakistani armed forces. There's just something not right about it -- And no baseball caps either -- Still want the duck bill, sure but why a ball cap?




I honestly don't mean to be rude, you're a TT after all but quit complaining,its a PASGT/M88 kevlar helmet and its pretty good for infantry,watch some videos on it-its something we should've inducted way earlier.

I dont get it,a couple of posts from a few years back had us lamenting on the 'outdated WW2' gear that infantry are given,now its all improving and some of us are still not satisfied.....

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## Desert Fox

muse said:


> Really hate the Nazi helmet for Pakistani armed forces. There's just something not right about it -- And no baseball caps either -- Still want the duck bill, sure but why a ball cap?



What's wrong with German WW2 style helmets? I think they're pretty bad@$$. And besides, the fact that the design is still in use worldwide goes to show German ingenuity.

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## Koovie

Pakistani Nationalist said:


>



Thats the Australian SAS

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## Jango

Parachute rigger badge:


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## muse

GIANTsasquatch said:


> its pretty good for infantry,watch some videos on it-its something we should've inducted way earlier..



Well, my opinion is not formed from watching videos - never mind my xperience, it's just a gut thing - though you do have a point about at least not using WWII stuff


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## EyelessInGaza

muse said:


> Really hate the Nazi helmet for Pakistani armed forces. There's just something not right about it -............



Ha! It's amazing how people can think alike across the years and across cultures.

I had the exact same reaction to the Stahlhelm and its variants a long time ago. That helmet and its silhouette were closely identified with the Nazi regime and pro and anti Nazi propaganda- became famous (infamous) in fact. Post war the German army made a conscious decision to not use it. So your gut reaction is actually based on sound experience.

But then I saw various armies round the world using the same design, including the US army, and I got over it. It's supposed to be a very good design, FWIW, so I guess makes sense.


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## S-A-B-E-R->

persona_non_grata said:


> The MAG maybe 7.62 x 39 since a POF G3 carbine fires the same round


G3 fires 7.62X 51 the AK 47 or type 59 variants fire 7.62X39


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## Thorough Pro

Windjammer said:


>



Boots gave him out, if only boots and weapons can be camoed for total stealth.


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## Windjammer

Thorough Pro said:


> Boots gave him out, if only boots and weapons can be camoed for total stealth.



That's looking up'close, the enemy at a few hundred yards wouldn't be able to distinguish and pick out the sniper. !!


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## bigzgvr4

@Aeronaut How do you know about this WORD "CDOS" Do you have familiy in SSG or something 

"thank you come again"


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## Thorough Pro

I suppose enemy would have heard about binos? if an additional 2% attention to detail can make the 98% effort become flawless, why not?



Windjammer said:


> That's looking up'close, the enemy at a few hundred yards wouldn't be able to distinguish and pick out the sniper. !!


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## Windjammer

Thorough Pro said:


> I suppose enemy would have heard about binos? if an additional 2% attention to detail can make the 98% effort become flawless, why not?



Yes i'm sure the enemy has them as well, however one could argue that when a sniper is in position facing the enemy, his boots are are well behind him and out of harms way, the other logic comes to mind is that this is just a practice run so the minute detail may have been relaxed. !!


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## Kompromat

@bigzgvr4 Yes i did/do have.


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## bigzgvr4

Aeronaut said:


> @bigzgvr4 Yes i did/do have.


Good to know i dont know if alot of people here know why they are called that but i know my dad told me i posted his picture in ranger and other lawenforcement section he was an Airgaurd check it out

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## Kompromat

bigzgvr4 said:


> Good to know i dont know if alot of people here know why they are called that but i know my dad told me i posted his picture in ranger and other lawenforcement section he was an Airgaurd check it out



Please post it if you don't mind.


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## bigzgvr4

Aeronaut said:


> Please post it if you don't mind.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/204062-pakistan-police-rangers-other-law-enforcement-pakistan-25.html#post4016672

he ran an anti terror Cell In Karachi and hyderabad,peshawar when on active duty with i think zarrar Company, during the late 80s and 90s now retired

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## Jango

bigzgvr4 said:


> @Aeronaut How do you know about this WORD "CDOS" Do you have familiy in SSG or something
> 
> "thank you come again"



What is CDOS?


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## bigzgvr4

nuclearpak said:


> What is CDOS?



Umm the one that have passed the 6 months SPecialized training to get the Tab 

ONly Reffered to SSG,ARMy,navy,now airforce and Airgaurds, and i dont know about The rangers i guess those too Look at the tab in my link i posted above thats one of them I dont know if they have the same 6 months long training for other Services now or not but those are different then these e.g, My dads final test was 2 targets double tap under 3 seconds, and a explosive Related package to the hijackers inthe plane that when they open it It blow up and green lights the assault on the plane to rescue the passengers and Whole bunch of Other thing i.e intel gathering to capture terrorist suspect planning a hijacking and whole bunch of other things i.e advance 2 man buddy Ops 1 man ops 3 man buddy ops 

my uncle also ran with Zarrar and was on presidential Security detail he also Retired at the rank of Captain but they call it different in ASF, he was active in Lahore,Karachi,Quetta 
i dont have his picture though sorry

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## Jango

bigzgvr4 said:


> Umm the one that have passed the 6 months SPecialized training to get the Tab
> 
> ONly Reffered to SSG,ARMy,navy,now airforce and Airgaurds, and i dont know about The rangers i guess those too Look at the tab in my link i posted above thats one of them I dont know if they have the same 6 months long training for other Services now or not but those are different then these e.g, My dads final test was 2 targets double tap under 3 seconds, and a explosive Related package to the hijackers inthe plane that when they open it It blow up and green lights the assault on the plane to rescue the passengers and Whole bunch of Other thing i.e intel gathering to capture terrorist suspect planning a hijacking and whole bunch of other things



Isn't the tab you posted the pic of the sign of ATF or something like that. I am pretty sure I have seen that on alot of folks.

Is CDOS a short form of something?


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## bigzgvr4

nuclearpak said:


> Isn't the tab you posted the pic of the sign of ATF or something like that. I am pretty sure I have seen that on alot of folks.
> 
> Is CDOS a short form of something?



YEa its the same But Only ASF AND i think Rangers work with the SSG anti terror company Called Zarrar and they train with them i dont know about the rest. ASF ones and with zarrar are the last line of defence on an air plane (very Sensitive training) and Rangers ones are deployed on very high risk internal Security Details and these are the ones that are also PICked for VVIP protection details i.e prime ministers and presidents Totally different Ball game when compared with Police ATF/ATS units

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## AHMED85

&#1575;&#1606;&#1589;&#1575;&#1601; &#1705;&#1740; &#1570; &#1608;&#1575;&#1586;&#1575;&#1657;&#1726;&#1746;,&#1592;&#1604;&#1605; &#1705;&#1740; &#1583;&#1740;&#1608;&#1575;&#1585; &#1711;&#1585;&#1746;&#1548;&#1581;&#1602; &#1576;&#1575;&#1591;&#1604; &#1662;&#1585; &#1729;&#1608; &#1670;&#1726;&#1575;&#1740;&#1575;&#1548;&#1729;&#1575;&#1578;&#1726; &#1575;&#1657;&#1726;&#1575; &#1705;&#1585; &#1605;&#1575;&#1606;&#1711; &#1583;&#1593;&#1575;
&#1606;&#1740;&#1575; &#1662;&#1575;&#1705;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1606; &#1548;&#1575;&#1606;&#1588;&#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1729;

Hope for Participating in Special Training...

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## bigzgvr4

nuclearpak said:


> Isn't the tab you posted the pic of the sign of ATF or something like that. I am pretty sure I have seen that on alot of folks.
> 
> Is CDOS a short form of something?



Also bro if you look at history ssg first trianed ASF air Guard my Dad's Batch was the 2nd one they did not train any one else at that time only ASF and after the late 90s and early 2000 you started to See Police moving in that direction and getting training From the Army and then After ASF SSG's Trained Rangers in counter terror ops 
to give you an idea "training was also based on Snatch and Grab missions of hVT's" i cannot go into Detail But its like a a Top Teir Training that was Provided by the SSGs to ASF and Rangers


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## Jango

bigzgvr4 said:


> Also bro if you look at history ssg first trianed ASF air Guard my Dad's Batch was the 2nd one they did not train any one else at that time only ASF and after the late 90s and early 2000 you started to See Police moving in that direction and getting training From the Army and then After ASF SSG's Trained Rangers in counter terror ops
> to give you an idea "training was also based on Snatch and Grab missions of hVT's" i cannot go into Detail But its like a a Top Teir Training that was Provided by the SSGs to ASF and Rangers



Yeah I know about this part.


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## bigzgvr4

nuclearpak said:


> Yeah I know about this part.


and also if you look at the tab i posted the Knife/dagger in that is the same size as the one in the SSG Tab, but whenyou look at the others they are shorter and the word they call each other is their identification when they Meet some one else from a different Unit different company Etc you have to know how to say it too other wise you cannot prounounce it just by reading it and it also posses as a opSec because if you know how to say it you can distract that person by him(member) thinking that you are his friend and he will be relaxed and wont be alert(chookus) and that can get you killed in the Field


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## Master Blaster

A.Rafay said:


>

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## Kompromat

@Master Blaster : Please check, these pictures have been posted a gazzilion times before.


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## Master Blaster

@Aeronaut apologize for inconvenience


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## Kompromat

Master Blaster said:


> @Aeronaut apologize for inconvenience



Its, not about inconvenience..please go through the gallary and SSG related threads and only post newer images.

Thank you


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## Manticore

Pakistani Commando Bullseye
********.com - Pakistani Commando Bullseye


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## Fieldmarshal

ANTIBODY said:


> Pakistani Commando Bullseye
> ********.com - Pakistani Commando Bullseye



those soldiers are not from the SSG/army... they are from police, ats.


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## Pboy

Had I ever been in the Pakistani Army then being in the SSG would have been the dream I guess...


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## Jango

A couple of question, @fatman17, @Last Hope, @TaimiKhan, @Xeric

1- A person who is made GOC SSG...has he been a part of SSG in an earlier part of his career or is this his first experience with SSG?

2- How do you get inducted in SSW? I suppose pilots don't got there, nor do Air controllers or AD personnel, then who does and how?


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## Last Hope

nuclearpak said:


> 2- How do you get inducted in SSW? I suppose pilots don't got there, nor do Air controllers or AD personnel, then who does and how?


Why would pilots, or ATC or ADC wish to take up arms in SSW?
They are paratroopers from other units. Mostly. I believe the MP of PAF can also attempt.


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## Jango

Last Hope said:


> Why would pilots, or ATC or ADC wish to take up arms in SSW?
> They are paratroopers from other units. Mostly. I believe the MP of PAF can also attempt.



Paratroopers as in...?


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## Last Hope

nuclearpak said:


> Paratroopers as in...?


Anyone who is serving with the blue airborne wings on his chest.


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## Jango

Last Hope said:


> Anyone who is serving with the blue wings on his chest.



Arent they also AD personnel or something like that...

Btw, do they give infantry warfare training except basic combat at PAF academy?


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## Fieldmarshal

nuclearpak said:


> A couple of question, @fatman17, @Last Hope, @TaimiKhan, @Xeric
> 
> 1- A person who is made GOC SSG...has he been a part of SSG in an earlier part of his career or is this his first experience with SSG?



GOC SSG/commandant SSG (ie before SSG became Div. strength) has always been a commando. thats goes without any doubt or question.



nuclearpak said:


> 2- How do you get inducted in SSW? I suppose pilots don't got there, nor do Air controllers or AD personnel, then who does and how?



lots of officers of SSW are GDP drop outs. 
officers come from all branches of the air forces and even pilots. the point that ur missing here is that all Pakistani special forces personal(army/navy/airforce) are volunteers and once u volunteer and pass the test, not even the service chief can prevent u from joining the special forces. also u dont need ur senior officers permission to join the force.
if i am not wrong acm anwar shamim was also a commando in adition to being a pilot.

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## Last Hope

nuclearpak said:


> Arent they also AD personnel or something like that...
> 
> Btw, do they give infantry warfare training except basic combat at PAF academy?



You are messing things up. 

First of all, there are two types of cadets. Those who take skydives from C-130 and those who don't. The ones that complete the paratrooping course get wings on their chest. You can see the wings in these pictures:
















Secondly, the PAF wings differ from airborne wings. Every PAF pilot has wings with a crescent and 'PAF' marked. 






Other ground controllers have different wings. For example:






(ATC guys have 'ATC' instead of 'E'. Couldn't find a picture).

At PAF academy you are given same basic training as infantry. Survival, target shooting, operating G-3s and similar missions. This is the first step prior flying.

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## Jango

O bhai I know the difference between the wings...I meant something else. Khair...fieldmarshal cleared it.


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## Jango

Fieldmarshal said:


> lots of officers of SSW are GDP drop outs.
> officers come from all branches of the air forces and even pilots. the point that ur missing here is that all Pakistani special forces personal(army/navy/airforce) are volunteers and once u volunteer and pass the test, not even the service chief can prevent u from joining the special forces. also u dont need ur senior officers permission to join the force.
> if i am not wrong acm anwar shamim was also a commando in adition to being a pilot.



I just thought that a pilot wouldnt be let go that easily for SSW by PAF...he is an investment, and the engineering guys etc spend only about 6 months at the academy, so pretty much very basic weapon/combat training and all.

In this sense, a SSW candidate has less beforehand training in weapon and tactics than a SSG guy I suppose?


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## Zarvan

@Aeronaut @nuclearpak @ANTIBODY my mamo I men brother of by sister was also in SSG first he was trained for artillery than he was selected for SSG always loved to fight used to show us lot of guns by the total his many SSG men there are in the army ?


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## Kompromat

Zarvan said:


> @Aeronaut @nuclearpak @ANTIBODY my mamo I men brother of by sister was also in SSG first he was trained for artillery than he was selected for SSG always loved to fight used to show us lot of guns by the total his many SSG men there are in the army ?



Real numerical strength of the SSG is classified.


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## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


> Real numerical strength of the SSG is classified.



is one company off SSG still based in Saudi Arabia ?


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## Kompromat

Zarvan said:


> is one company off SSG still based in Saudi Arabia ?



No SSGs are based in Saudi Arabia.

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## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


> No SSGs are based in Saudi Arabia.



but Wikipedia says and also heard from some people that some ssg guys are in Saudi Arabia for royal family protection


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## Kompromat

Zarvan said:


> but Wikipedia says and also heard from some people that some ssg guys are in Saudi Arabia for royal family protection



Not anymore.

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## Fieldmarshal

nuclearpak said:


> I just thought that a pilot wouldnt be let go that easily for SSW by PAF...he is an investment, and the engineering guys etc spend only about 6 months at the academy, so pretty much very basic weapon/combat training and all.
> 
> In this sense, a SSW candidate has less beforehand training in weapon and tactics than a SSG guy I suppose?



like i said u dont need any ones permission to join the special forces. the sole reason for this is that apart from infantry men rest of the arms dident encourage their personal to join the special forces but rather discouraged them.
but all Pakistani armed forces personal are required to inform their superiors about their wish to join the special forces. 
but having said that, if they fail clear the entry requirments or fail to complete the training than they will be facing some very tough questions to ans.


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## Fieldmarshal

Aeronaut said:


> No SSGs are based in Saudi Arabia.



on the contrary

quite a few SSG personal are based in saudi arabia.
starting with the mountain warfare school in Khamis Mushayt, that was established by and is being run by SSG personal, to date. (i know a couple in person).
to the saudi academy in which some offciers are stationed as instructors.
and so on and so forth

all in all quite a few ssg personal are stationed in saudi arabia in different capacities.

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## Jango

Zarvan said:


> @Aeronaut @nuclearpak @ANTIBODY my mamo I men brother of by sister was also in SSG first he was trained for artillery than he was selected for SSG always loved to fight used to show us lot of guns by the total his many SSG men there are in the army ?



It is div strength, exact number is classified.


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## Zarvan

nuclearpak said:


> It is div strength, exact number is classified.


Is Pakistan planning to increase Special services wing of Air Force and Navy ?


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## Saleem

Fieldmarshal said:


> on the contrary
> 
> quite a few SSG personal are based in saudi arabia.
> starting with the mountain warfare school in Khamis Mushayt, that was established by and is being run by SSG personal, to date. (i know a couple in person).
> to the saudi academy in which some offciers are stationed as instructors.
> and so on and so forth
> 
> all in all quite a few ssg personal are stationed in saudi arabia in different capacities.



they are on deputation etc. not as organized units; ibn saud cannot rely on muslims for their protection any more---their real interests are now exposed---preserving their "royal"rule regardless of how they destroy in the process ---witness their origins as allies of the british empire against the muslims of othmania...

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## Fieldmarshal

Saleem said:


> they are on deputation etc. not as organized units; ibn saud cannot rely on muslims for their protection any more---their real interests are now exposed---preserving their "royal"rule regardless of how they destroy in the process ---witness their origins as allies of the british empire against the muslims of othmania...



no one ever said that the deployment is unit level, the gent in question said that their are no SSG personal in saudi, to which i had replied to above.


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## Bratva

SSG faced heavy casualty yesterday. 8 members of 3rd Commando Battalion laid their lives in Tirah Operation


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## fatman17

*Quote of the Day

&#8220;Parachutists are good to the last drop.&#8221; 

-- Seen on a bumper sticker from a parachute school*.



mafiya said:


> SSG faced heavy casualty yesterday. 8 members of 3rd Commando Battalion laid their lives in Tirah Operation



any link.....?


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## acidwolf

Hi Guys. I am very sorry if this is mentioned before. But I have been reading different numbers of the size of SSG soldiers. Can someone reliable please mention the size of soldiers we have in SSG. I just read this article where the EX SSG officer mentions that SSG has 3000 soldiers. Here is the link to that The phantom soldiers &#8211; The Express Tribune However, I am reading in different forums that it is about 7000. So can someone please help me with that


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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## F.O.X

mafiya said:


> SSG faced heavy casualty yesterday. 8 members of 3rd Commando Battalion laid their lives in Tirah Operation



They were not From SSG.


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## Jango

F.O.X said:


> They were not From SSG.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...g-ssgs-martyred-tirah-valley-operation-4.html

Look at Taimikhans post if you don't believe me or mafiya.

A Capt was also among the martyred.


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## F.O.X

nuclearpak said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...g-ssgs-martyred-tirah-valley-operation-4.html
> 
> Look at Taimikhans post if you don't believe me or mafiya.
> 
> A Capt was also among the martyred.



It is not that i don't believe you , it is just that from what i heard the number of Soldiers martyred is correct , however the figure of SSG is not (From what i heard ) . however i can be wrong as i have no physical confirmation of it .

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## Jango

F.O.X said:


> It is not that i don't believe you , it is just that from what i heard the number of Soldiers martyred is correct , however the figure of SSG is not (From what i heard ) . however i can be wrong as i have no physical confirmation of it .



Yeah perhaps. 

THe only confirmed thing is that they were from 3 Commando and a Captain was included. Number is varied from 6-9 people being reported.

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## Bratva

F.O.X said:


> They were not From SSG.



wrong as always


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## Jango

Has anybody noticed the slight change in the style of the beret for SSG and I think the whole army in general.

For instance look at the following pic:






Berets are more taller and more pointier.

For comparison, a more recent pic.






The beret is along the head and very flat.

So a pointier triangular beret shape has been changed to a more flatter one?

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## Last Hope

acidwolf said:


> Hi Guys. I am very sorry if this is mentioned before. But I have been reading different numbers of the size of SSG soldiers. Can someone reliable please mention the size of soldiers we have in SSG. I just read this article where the EX SSG officer mentions that SSG has 3000 soldiers. Here is the link to that The phantom soldiers &#8211; The Express Tribune However, I am reading in different forums that it is about 7000. So can someone please help me with that



The SSG has 5 Battalions. 

1 Commando Bt
2 Commando Bt
3 Commando Bt
4 Commando Bt
5 Division Troops

1,2 and 4 are under one Brigade and 3 and 5(Zarrars) are under another Brigade. 

Get estimate of the figure yourself.

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## acidwolf

Thank you. So the reports about 7 battalions plus 3 independent companies are false?


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## kbd-raaf

nuclearpak said:


> Has anybody noticed the slight change in the style of the beret for SSG and I think the whole army in general.
> 
> For instance look at the following pic:
> 
> Berets are more taller and more pointier.
> 
> For comparison, a more recent pic.
> 
> The beret is along the head and very flat.
> 
> So a pointier triangular beret shape has been changed to a more flatter one?



I believe it might simply be the way the beret is worn and not the type of beret itself.


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## Fieldmarshal

nuclearpak said:


> The beret is along the head and very flat.
> 
> So a pointier triangular beret shape has been changed to a more flatter one?



right on..........that is actually how its supose to be


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## blain2

Aeronaut said:


> Not anymore.


Actually SSG was NEVER deployed in Saudi Arabia as a separate entity. When the Army had deployed some brigades on a rotational basis upon the Saudi request, some SSG officers and troops may have gone along, but it was not as if an entire detachment was sent to KSA for any special purpose. It is one thing to send SSG advisers for training, an entirely different one when a complete detachment is sent for a specific task/role. As far as I know, and I am pretty sure, we never deputed any SSG detachment for KSA.

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## Armstrong

blain2 said:


> Actually SSG was NEVER deployed in Saudi Arabia as a separate entity. When the Army had deployed some brigades on a rotational basis upon the Saudi request, some SSG officers and troops may have gone along, but it was not as if an entire detachment was sent to KSA for any special purpose. It is one thing to send SSG advisers for training, an entirely different one when a complete detachment is sent for a specific task/role. As far as I know, and I am pretty sure, we never deputed any SSG detachment for KSA.



Why were Army Brigades there even on a rotational basis ?


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## Last Hope

blain2 said:


> Actually SSG was NEVER deployed in Saudi Arabia as a separate entity. When the Army had deployed some brigades on a rotational basis upon the Saudi request, some SSG officers and troops may have gone along, but it was not as if an entire detachment was sent to KSA for any special purpose. It is one thing to send SSG advisers for training, an entirely different one when a complete detachment is sent for a specific task/role. As far as I know, and I am pretty sure, we never deputed any SSG detachment for KSA.



There is always a team deployed in KSA for advisory and emergency purposes, to deal with situations Saudi forces cannot. They are led by a Lt. Col. here. When the Grand Mosque in Makkah was under siege, Saudi forces failed and the posted SSG here was immediately moved to take control. Or even recently, to take control of bitter anti-government protests in Eastern region. 

They are posted in Taif if I am right,

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## blain2

SSG Expansion.

The idea is to have 3 brigades at full strength to have the divisional capacity in place as per the requirements of the Army for special operations roles. However the second brigade is under strength right now and due to ongoing operational tasking, it will be some time before the division has its entire complement of troops. However the good news is that the expansion plan is approved for raising the third brigade along with the TO&E for the division.

If I recall correctly, the work is ongoing to get the 6 battalions up and the Divisional troops will include the independent companies comprised of the ATT and Communications.

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## blain2

Last Hope said:


> There is always a team deployed in KSA for advisory and emergency purposes, to deal with situations Saudi forces cannot. They are led by a Lt. Col. here. When the Grand Mosque in Makkah was under siege, Saudi forces failed and the posted SSG here was immediately moved to take control. Or even recently, to take control of bitter anti-government protests in Eastern region.
> 
> They are posted in Taif if I am right,


LH, The Saudis have their own special operations troops specially for these tasks. As it is, at the rate at which the SSG is being employed currently, PA does not have troops to spare for babysitting the Royals but more importantly, the Saudis have their own troops in this role.

The siege in Makkah also had very limited Pakistani contribution. The DA was asked to find out if the Saudis needed any assistance when this happened. The Saudis were in no mood to look weak and wanted to deliver a message that they were not going to tolerate such things and this message was delivered through the use of massive brute force for which they had ample troops and armour in place. 

Also, Pakistan and especially the PA will never allow the SSG troops, or for that matter any Pakistani troops, to be used to put down anti-government protests anywhere else outside of Pakistan. This does not happen in Pakistan, absolutely zero chance of this happening anywhere else regardless of what the Saudis may want to offer.

During the Iraq war, the GoP under NS wanted Pakistani troops to be deployed in possible combat roles along the KSA/Iraq border, the Army would have none of it.

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## Argus Panoptes

Last Hope said:


> There is always a team deployed in KSA for advisory and emergency purposes, to deal with situations Saudi forces cannot. They are led by a Lt. Col. here. *When the Grand Mosque in Makkah was under siege, Saudi forces failed and the posted SSG here was immediately moved to take control.* Or even recently, to take control of bitter anti-government protests in Eastern region.
> 
> They are posted in Taif if I am right,



French GIGN commandos also participated in that operation.



blain2 said:


> Not accurate any more. Saudis have their own special operations troops specially for these tasks. As it is, at the rate at which the SSG is being employed currently, PA does not have troops to spare for babysitting the Royals but more importantly, the Saudis have their own troops in this role.
> 
> *The siege in Makkah also had very limited Pakistani contribution. * The DA was asked to offer any or all assistance to the Saudis when this happened. The Saudis were in no mood to look weak and wanted to deliver a message and it was done through the use of massive brute force for which they had ample troops and armour in place.
> 
> Also, Pakistan and especially the PA will never allow the SSG troops, or for that matter any Pakistani troops, to be used to put down anti-government protests anywhere else outside of Pakistan. This does not happen in Pakistan, absolutely zero chance of this happening anywhere else regardless of what the Saudis may want to offer.



A lot of the heavy work was done by the French GIGN.

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## blain2

Armstrong said:


> Why were Army Brigades there even on a rotational basis ?



This was in Gen Zia ul Haq's times. He was close to Saudis, the latter were promising to fund the expense and pay for the wear and tear of maintaining troops/equipment, so it was considered goodwill on the part of Pakistan towards the Saudis and as such it was done. The Pakistani brigades essentially provided advisory value to the Saudi National Guard/Army. The key reason was the Iran-Iraq war and the Saudi threat perception concerning Iran. Thus the request to have Pakistani formations present.

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## blain2

Fieldmarshal said:


> on the contrary
> 
> quite a few SSG personal are based in saudi arabia.
> starting with the mountain warfare school in Khamis Mushayt, that was established by and is being run by SSG personal, to date. (i know a couple in person).
> to the saudi academy in which some offciers are stationed as instructors.
> and so on and so forth
> 
> all in all quite a few ssg personal are stationed in saudi arabia in different capacities.


 A clear distinction has to be made here. SSG sends people on deputation but in advisory capacity. This is in clear contrast to SSG troops being sent to defend the Saudis. We will train troops, carry out FID training, set up Special Operations schools, but don't send SF troops in combat capacity.

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## Last Hope

Yes the French had their role, greater than the SSG's, but in the end it was the SSG's Colonel's idea that was executed. 

There are Infantry and Air Force personnel posted here for training as well serving purposes (AMC) in excessive numbers. The SSG deployed here not only train the special forces but act as advisers in tense situations and have participated in several missions too (although as you say their role may be limited).


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## Armstrong

blain2 said:


> SSG Expansion.
> 
> The idea is to have 3 brigades at full strength to have the divisional capacity in place as per the requirements of the Army for special operations roles. However the second brigade is under strength right now and due to ongoing operational tasking, it will be some time before the division has its entire complement of troops. However the good news is that the expansion plan is approved for raising the third brigade along with the TO&E for the division.
> 
> If I recall correctly, the work is ongoing to get the 6 battalions up and the Divisional troops will include the independent companies comprised of the ATT and Communications.



Dude why didn't we, throughout the course of the past 10 years, inculcate significant Counter-Insurgency capabilities in our Paramilitary Forces so that they could handle our domestic enemies well enough with the Army providing the occasional input or Air-Support instead of being deployed the way we are !


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## Rafi

Armstrong said:


> Dude why didn't we, throughout the course of the past 10 years, inculcate significant Counter-Insurgency capabilities in our Paramilitary Forces so that they could handle our domestic enemies well enough with the Army providing the occasional input or Air-Support instead of being deployed the way we are !



Main element of counter terrorist forces are the police and other law enforcement agencies, there purview falls on the civilian govt and we have all seen how effective it has been. 

There is a need for all the stakeholders in the country to come together and come up with a comprehensive *counter insurgency *and *counter terrorist* strategy.

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## Jango

Argus Panoptes said:


> French GIGN commandos also participated in that operation.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of the heavy work was done by the French GIGN.



In an advisory role...they weren't allowed to enter Makkah AFAIK.


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## A.Rafay

Sorry if posted before.

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## COOKie LOOkie....

well its quite impressive to see our infantry units in such gears...


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## S-A-B-E-R->

A.Rafay said:


> Sorry if posted before.



second guy frm the rite in ghili ..is that a g3 with scope or PSR1??


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## Argus Panoptes

nuclearpak said:


> In an advisory role...they weren't allowed to enter Makkah AFAIK.



Actually, they led the attack in clearing the actual masjid, after they were declared "Muslim" by reciting the kalima.



Last Hope said:


> Yes the French had their role, greater than the SSG's, but in the end it was the SSG's Colonel's idea that was executed.
> 
> There are Infantry and Air Force personnel posted here for training as well serving purposes (AMC) in excessive numbers. The SSG deployed here not only train the special forces but act as advisers in tense situations and have participated in several missions too (although as you say their role may be limited).



The actual clearance operation was planned and executed by the French, Sir.


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## Jango

Argus Panoptes said:


> Actually, they led the attack in clearing the actual masjid, after they were declared "Muslim" by reciting the kalima.



Any links...? First time I heard this.

AFAIK, there were only 3 GIGN operatives and all were sitting outside Makkah in a camp in a advisory and overwatch role.


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## Argus Panoptes

nuclearpak said:


> Any links...? First time I heard this.
> 
> AFAIK, there were only 3 GIGN operatives and all were sitting outside Makkah in a camp in a advisory and overwatch role.



Well, you may just have to take my word for it. Those details are not referenced in public sources.


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## Jango

Argus Panoptes said:


> Well, you may just have to take my word for it. Those details are not referenced in public sources.



OKay......

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## Last Hope

nuclearpak said:


> In an advisory role...they weren't allowed to enter Makkah AFAIK.


They were initially on the outskirts with the top brass and governor/prince of Makkah. Arrangement was later made for them to embrace Islam on papers.


Argus Panoptes said:


> Actually, they led the attack in clearing the actual masjid, after they were declared "Muslim" by reciting the kalima.
> 
> The actual clearance operation was planned and executed by the French, Sir.


I had a complete report but lost it with rest of the files. 

Story goes this way, there was Shia-sunni lows at the moment and some tribes were not given their equal treatment and were boycotted due to some clashes. During the highs of the clashes, one dusk they attacked the Masjid entering the Masjid at time of Fajr (during/right after Azan) and killed the Mua'zin, taking control over the Masjid by setting up machine gun positions and sending snipers on the Mina'rat. The immediate reaction from Saudis forces came soon and they were slaughters by the snipers. Some people inside were initially killed but soon allowed to leave after negotiating with Government on the speakers.

The Saudi special forces planned to invade into the Masjid from the open area near Kabah, and they sent in helicopters dropping the commandos who were all killed too. After this, the French and SSG were called in. French couldn't enter initially and meanwhile the SSG commander (was a Col whose name was in the report too) was at scene with his men. The operation's incharge was also a royal prince from Saudi Armed Forces. SSG commander proposed flooding the Masjid and electrocuting the militants which was denied since there were some hostages and would result in open massacre in Islam's holiest site. 

The commandos (I think SSG and French together with Saudi backup) broke in through King Fahad gate (one of largest gates, situated near Safa) and engaged fiercely forcing the militants to run into the underground dungeons. The forces tried everything to get them out, but they were resistant. Meanwhile the Masjid was cleared and explosives were used at the point of break-in. The SSG commander's proposals were them used, the dungeons were fired initially with tear gasses then poisonous gasses to no avail. The dungeons were, in the end, flooded with water then electrocuted. Most of the militants were killed and some survived.

The opposition was led by this person, this picture is after the electrocution:







Other survivors:






Picture from the explosions at King Fahad gate:







CIA was also involved in the operation.


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## Argus Panoptes

nuclearpak said:


> OKay......



The real story of the whole operation is so savage and bloody that details were suppressed to avoid the political fallout, and that remains true to this day. Only properly sanitized versions are allowed to be referenced.

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## Jango

Argus Panoptes said:


> The real story of the whole operation is so savage and bloody that details were suppressed to avoid the political fallout, and that remains true to this day. Only properly sanitized versions are allowed to be referenced.








When you have scenes like this, you know something savage occurred!!!

I saw a picture of the fans being partially melted because of the extreme heat.

But you have give credit to the Saudis, they made an example of these guys. They gave them a brutal death so no one would dare do it again. They established the state's supremacy. Meanwhile in Pakistan, you all know what happened and what is happening in Lal Masjid case, we are still blaming Musharraf for doing it, still regarding those Mullah brothers are Shaheeds and Ghazis, that guy is running free still, can you believe that???

Anyways, this would take the thread off topic.

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## Fieldmarshal

nuclearpak said:


> When you have scenes like this, you know something savage occurred!!!
> 
> I saw a picture of the fans being partially melted because of the extreme heat.
> 
> But you have give credit to the Saudis, they made an example of these guys. They gave them a brutal death so no one would dare do it again. They established the state's supremacy. Meanwhile in Pakistan, you all know what happened and what is happening in Lal Masjid case, we are still blaming Musharraf for doing it, still regarding those Mullah brothers are Shaheeds and Ghazis, that guy is running free still, can you believe that???
> 
> Anyways, this would take the thread off topic.



by just looking at the equipment/gear of the terrorists in the above pic one can clearly make out who financed/trained and provided the equipment to these people


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## Sinnerman108

Any update on the training that SSG is getting @ Tarbela ?

I heard the Americans were improving the SSG's sniper skills ?


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## Inception-06

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> second guy frm the rite in ghili ..is that a g3 with scope or PSR1??




yes it must be, because he has sniper gear, dress and cammo !

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## Kompromat

Infantry now looks badass

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## Bratva

A.Rafay said:


> Sorry if posted before.



Are they really PA? Look at soldier dresses, PA have dark camo not the light camo


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## S-A-B-E-R->

mafiya said:


> Are they really PA? Look at soldier dresses, PA have dark camo not the light camo



its FC i guss


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## Bratva

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> its FC i guss



They look saudi special forces to me


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## Rajput_Pakistani

mafiya said:


> They look saudi special forces to me



Saudis don't use these rifles. These are from PA. Contrast of picture is such that their uniforms are looking lighter colored. Look at the uniform of left most soldier. Its definitely from Pak Army.


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## Fieldmarshal

mafiya said:


> Are they really PA? Look at soldier dresses, PA have dark camo not the light camo



they are PA soldiers.
the uniform in question is of PA.


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## PWFI

mafiya said:


> Are they really PA? Look at soldier dresses, PA have dark camo not the light camo



Sir look at badges on the shoulers of the sorldiers, you will notice pakistani flag, in particularly on the shoulders of guys on the left side.

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## Fieldmarshal

last when i was tarbela, their i saw a french, german and american trainers. all were their to train our boys in the use to sniper weapons.
in the words of a SSG major " they all give us equipment in aid and that in tails trainers, they all think that they know best. so we act dumb and listen to them all. But when the time comes *we do what we think is right and in our best interest* and not what we are being told. as in this war we have more operational experience than any of them.

and no one can improve any thing for you, as no one will do it for u. what it takes is practice and shear hard work. the more u practice the better u get. 

hope that ans it.

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## blain2

The problem is that most Western advisers and trainers come to Pakistan thinking that Pakistani troops would be like those they have interacted with in many Middle Eastern Countries and Afghanistan. They come to Pakistan with a fairly basic curriculum and think that this would be enough for us. The reality is that many of our training institutions are as old as those of the US Army and that of other Western nations. Our troops know the basics of snipercraft and infantry training as well as any others. However the sniper employment has changed somewhat overtime and its always good to learn from the experiences of others utilizing such capabilities.

All of our special to arms and skills schools have a very developed curriculum. Where the Western input helps is in absorption of the new weapons and tactics into established training procedures. Part of being a good host is to listen to whatever the guest imparts and choose and pick what you think makes more sense in the local environment. What should give confidence to people about our own training programs is that we ourselves are invited to setup schools overseas.

I have a ton of stories about our students teaching their foreign instructors a thing or two but the overall story is that many come with a false notion about the standard of training here and are very surprised by the reality at least when interfacing with the regular forces.

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## django

*I have a ton of stories about our students teaching their foreign instructors a thing or two but the overall story is that many come with a false notion about the standard of training here and are very surprised by the reality at least when interfacing with the regular forces*. 

Well Blain, would be greatly appreciated if you could share a couple of those stories.


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## blain2

django, most of the cases are those of foreign officers coming to Pakistan to attend a staff college or national defence course and having certain preconceived notions, mostly negative but coming away impressed one way or another. The more direct hands-on training examples that I have had some exposure to is again around the foreign side sending people to teach our people very rudimentary knowledge and they used to come and demonstrate it, the NCOs and jawans, who were really experienced chaps, used to demonstrate it back to them by adding a bit of the local flair and their own knowhow in very little time. This used to impress some as their past experiences operating and training other militaries were different.

One difference than we have had until recently, where we had allowed them to interact with the FC, is that the Army has always used the "train the trainer" approach. They would come and interact with our training staff/officers who in turn would teach it to the JCO/NCO cadres and then cascade the training down to other ranks. The point is that, other than very specialized training, any Army with well established schools knows its ways around. The biggest challenge for most Countries is to maintain and retain quality and consistency of training. We, fortunately, have that system in place.

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## django

Well Blain one only has to read brigadier Yousafs book 'The bear trap' to grasp the professionalism of our armed forces, as you stated we always adopted the 'train the trainer' approach, and our chaps managed to achieve a better strike rate with the stingers than their US trainers, I guess that buried any preconcieved notions by uncle sam about our capabilities.
BTW your posts along with xerics are truly informative on the internal dynamics of pak army.

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## Thorough Pro

Yes, Its true. Non-muslims are not allowed within Haram, I also read that there were two French SF personnel which converted before being taken to Makkah. 

Because they (French) were only two in number , they were more into planning and monitoring operations, actual operation was conducted by Pak and Saudi SF personnel.

Grand Mosque Seizure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Siege of Mecca, by Yaroslav Trofimov









nuclearpak said:


> Any links...? First time I heard this.
> 
> AFAIK, there were only 3 GIGN operatives and all were sitting outside Makkah in a camp in a advisory and overwatch role.


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## blain2

TP,

I happened to read the above book as the author and others suggest that this siege was the true origin of Alqaida. Obviously I think the two are totally unconnected. But just for other's information, the above book only mentions Pakistan and the Pakistani Army concerning the burning of the US embassy in ISB as a result of this siege. The entire credit in the book for the operation is given to the Saudis and their French advisers and there is no mention of any Pakistani involvement.

While I am not absolutely definitive, but reverting back to the issue of the supposed SSG involvement in the Holy Kaaba siege, I believe Pakistani involvement was extremely limited if any. As an aside, I happened to know the Brig., later Maj Gen, who commanded the SSG from ~79-81 fairly well. At least I never heard from him of this involvement and the same goes for some of the other older SSG officers that I have interacted with. Back then the SSG was even smaller and such things did not stay a secret for long. One must also keep in mind that prior to the 80s, the SSG was a conventional SF. That is, its role was specifically for operations behind enemy lines. It was not trained for ATT missions which require training for things like built up area fighting, MoE etc.

The Western countries had been working on such capabilities after the incident at the Munich Olympics with the Germans forming a special force, later on the French and the British started imparting the same to their police and SAS respectively and this is the reason that the Saudis brought in the French Special Forces people. It was this evolution that resulted in the PA deciding on developing this anti-terrorism capability in the early 80s which led to the repurposing of Musa company on the orders of Gen Zia ul Haq. Our concerns were more specific including security of various vital points. The evolution of this force eventually gave way to the current Zarrar ATT detachment.

But as I have said initially, I must grant that I may have incomplete information about our involvement.

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## Jango

Does SSG have any presence at Attock fort?


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## Last Hope

nuclearpak said:


> Does SSG have any presence at Attock fort?


Yes........


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## Jango

Last Hope said:


> Yes........



Any idea how much?

A small team for quick action as in every cantt or a whole battalion?


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## Last Hope

nuclearpak said:


> Any idea how much?
> 
> A small team for quick action as in every cantt or a whole battalion?


I am not sure about it, but I do believe they were a whole battalion.


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## TaimiKhan

nuclearpak said:


> Any idea how much?
> 
> A small team for quick action as in every cantt or a whole battalion?



One full SSG battalion & more may be, but off course it won't be at full strength due to operational requirements.

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## Fieldmarshal

Last Hope said:


> I am not sure about it, but I do believe they were a whole battalion.



or two !!!!


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## Last Hope

Fieldmarshal said:


> or two !!!!



Possible, I was only aware of one battalion for their active participation against militants.


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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat



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## Jango

Cherat.


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## Kompromat

*Preparedness is key to any successful operation.*

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## Kompromat



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## mughaljee

Sir , TaimiKhan , Last Hope, 
A SSG boy , could also be a SPY ?


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## Last Hope

mughaljee said:


> Sir , TaimiKhan , Last Hope,
> A SSG boy , could also be a SPY ?


Why not? 
During Recce missions, everyone is a spy. For short-time, they do get the tasks but not professional (unless he asks for change in department).

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## Kompromat



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## Jango

The US Navy SEALS also do this training, I forgot the exact name of it.


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## mughaljee

I know he is swimming , but what is special in it ?


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## kbd-raaf

mughaljee said:


> I know he is swimming , but what is special in it ?



His hands and feet are tied together.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Aeronaut said:


>



They arent Special forces.. they are paramilitary.



A.Rafay said:


> Sorry if posted before.



again.. they are regular infantry..

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## gangsta_rap

What @DESERT FIGHTER said,I don't think SSG and similar groups within the military use the Rooivalk Camo,they almost exclusively use the M81 BDU.


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## Amaa'n

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> They arent Special forces.. they are paramilitary.
> 
> .


The guys at the front/ officers are ssg I believe, check marron beret with the guy on extreme left


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## Amaa'n

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> second guy frm the rite in ghili ..is that a g3 with scope or PSR1??



Yep its G3 with a scope..


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## Amaa'n

Super Falcon said:


> hahahahha swimming pool ma samandar ma karo tu pata chala na 300 feet pa hahaha well cool images but we need more and more here latest not old same crap



You do know that even Navy deals and SBS first rain their cadets in swimming pool for 2weeks with full gear


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## DESERT FIGHTER

balixd said:


> The guys at the front/ officers are ssg I believe, check marron beret with the guy on extreme left



No.... they are FC...


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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> They arent Special forces.. they are paramilitary.
> 
> 
> 
> again.. they are regular infantry..



The Uniform used by Army these days looks new I mean it is different that what was being used just few months or an year ago


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> The Uniform used by Army these days looks new I mean it is different that what was being used just few months or an year ago



These guys are Frontier Corps KPK...This is the new army uniform:








Older uniform:

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> These guys are Frontier Corps KPK...This is the new army uniform:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Older uniform:







Check out this picture this Uniform is different Sir than the most recent one


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> Check out this picture this Uniform is different Sir than the most recent one



They are the same thing bro... i also started a thread about the new multi cam uniform... look closely:


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## Bratva

What is SOW? Special forces of Strategic Planning Division?


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## Amaa'n

no Special Operations Wing is a newly raised wing in FC Balochistan


mafiya said:


> What is SOW? Special forces of Strategic Planning Division?


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## Xeric

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=321290751307479

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## Xeric



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## RAMPAGE

Xeric said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=321290751307479


love when they r praying before any ops.thats what distinguishes PA from other muslim armies

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## Kompromat



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## GHOST RIDER

Aeronaut said:


>



The guy holding the rifle
is he our Pakistani boy
or Turkish soldier?


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## Bratva

Aeronaut said:


>





GHOST RIDER said:


> The guy holding the rifle
> is he our Pakistani boy
> or Turkish soldier?



Special Services Wing - PAF. These guns are trademark of SSW


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## Jango

GHOST RIDER said:


> The guy holding the rifle
> is he our Pakistani boy
> or Turkish soldier?



The guy holding the gun is Turkish.

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## Irfan Baloch

what a waste that any non military personnel of the police or ANF are picked off by the politicians for private VIP protection.
and they never get the chance to do what they were meant to do ... attack the high risk organised crime and respond quickly to very big incidents involving violence

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## Super Falcon

Please pakistan army chieaf give pakistan army new standard weapon and send all MP5 G3 and AK 47 to police and ranger and FC and buy MP 7 Scar and famas for whole army stage by stage and give all weapons available to SSG forces all king of weapons snipers shotguns pistols bombs rifles etc state of the art my heart cries when seeing AK 47 in ssg hands


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## k!ng_0f_(~)3@rt$

mughaljee said:


> I know he is swimming , but what is special in it ?


can't you see the picture carefully?


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## Windjammer

*
Brigadier TM ( Tariq Mehmood ) *
*Sitara-e-Jurat (1965)
Sitara-e-Jurat (1971)
Sitara-e-Bisalat (1973)
Sitara-i-Imtiaz (Military) (2003)*

On 29 May 1989, SSG suffered the tragic loss of its legendary commanding officer, when Brigadier TM was leading the team of SSG paratroopers for a free-fall at Pakistan Army Aviation School, Rahwali, Gujranwala. The jump was part of Army Aviations Passing Out parade.The incident happened during a demonstration jump from an Army's Mi-17 helicopter when Brigadier TM's main and reserve parachute failed to open.[citation needed] According to the investigations, his first Parachute didn't open and the ropes were badly entangled. Brigadier TM attempted to cut the ropes with his dagger, and tried to open the backup Parachute. Unintentionally, he had released both back up and main parachutes, and the amount of velocity with which he was coming down was enormous. The moment he hit the ground, it was estimated that due to high momentum his body weight was about 200 tons

*May His Soul Rest In Peace Ameen*

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## mughaljee

^ Windjammer.
Will you share some other SSG legends persons. ?


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## Windjammer

mughaljee said:


> ^ Windjammer.
> Will you share some other SSG legends persons. ?



Sir Fatman, nuclearpak , Last Hope, Taimi are the best guys for that.


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## Last Hope

*Lt. Col. Haroom-ul-Islam*

7 COMMANDO BATTALION ZARRAR COMPANY






He was leading the SSG during the Lal Masjid operation from the front and was one of the first officers to embrace martyrdom. His famous picture from the operation:






Other pictures:

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## fatman17

THE BRAVEST OF THE BRAVE.....

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## BATMAN

Why was he wearing civil dress, in this operation?



nuclearpak said:


> The US Navy SEALS also do this training, I forgot the exact name of it.



US navy seals can go to hell.. who cares what they do!

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## Jango

BATMAN said:


> Why was he wearing civil dress, in this operation?



These folks are sometimes called immediately to the field of ops and in some cases don't have time to change or get a proper debriefing. If you remember in the Lyari ops, CID guys were all in plain clothes.




> US navy seals can go to hell.. who cares what they do!



That was meant to show that this training regime is very demanding and challenging.


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## BATMAN

Zarvan said:


> but Wikipedia says and also heard from some people that some ssg guys are in Saudi Arabia for royal family protection



This is a false propaganda, spread by indo-iranian elements in Pakistani society.

What people do not want to tell on this forum is that Iranian protesters targeted Pakistani pilgrims.... this shows the level of hate in these elements against Pakistanis.

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## BATMAN

nuclearpak said:


> These folks are sometimes called immediately to the field of ops and in some cases don't have time to change or get a proper debriefing. If you remember in the Lyari ops, CID guys were all in plain clothes..



In case of red mosque, there was enough time to get dress.. i guess this getup would be due to (traitor) media presence and sensitivity involved.

Plain cloth operation is another thing.. 



> That was meant to show that this training regime is very demanding and challenging



Our soldiers have faith.. which make them achieve monstrous feats. Unlike, our enemy soldiers.. who go to field with hateful hearts and under the influence of drugs.


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## Windjammer

He could simply have dressed in these clothes to confuse the culprits who occupied the Lal Masjid since most of them were obviously were dressed in the same manner. !!


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## Zarvan

BATMAN said:


> This is a false propaganda, spread by indo-iranian elements in Pakistani society.
> 
> What people do not want to tell on this forum is that Iranian protesters targeted Pakistani pilgrims.... this shows the level of hate in these elements against Pakistanis.


sir this is not a lie they remains their for several years


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## k!ng_0f_(~)3@rt$

BATMAN said:


> This is a false propaganda, spread by indo-iranian elements in Pakistani society.
> 
> What people do not want to tell on this forum is that Iranian protesters targeted Pakistani pilgrims.... this shows the level of hate in these elements against Pakistanis.



Well its true.. Do some more deep research on this. 

Rest yes there are some news and information around the world that Irani agencies working in some areas of Balochistan near to border.


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## Bratva

@TaimiKhan Does PA current AK-47 fires 7 mm round or 5.56 mm round?


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## Amaa'n

or you seriously asking this question ? .....ak47 being used is chambered in 7.62 x 39mm, ak 47 does not come in 5.56 . however Russians made their own round 5.45 for AK 74 and aks 74 u / krinkov


mafiya said:


> @TaimiKhan Does PA current AK-47 fires 7 mm round or 5.56 mm round?

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## Bratva

balixd said:


> or you seriously asking this question ? .....ak47 being used is chambered in 7.62 x 39mm, ak 47 does not come in 5.56 . however Russians made their own round 5.45 for AK 74 and aks 74 u / krinkov



Just to clear my doubt


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## fatman17

*A Dashing Commando &#8211; Capt. Tariq Jamal Shaheed. SBt.*

by Lt Col Amer Islam.


It was a moonless, pitch dark night pre-ceding 14 August 2012, when Tariq Force and Mustajab Force left their operational base and started closing with the Terrorists' strong hold on the spur of a peak at Orakzai Agency. This Strong hold consisted of a series of multistoried compounds. These terrorists were responsible for massacre and displacement of hundreds of innocent people of Orakzai Agency, for no fault of them. Capt. Tariq Jamal's unit; 6 Commando Battalion was assigned the mission to clear the strong hold miscreants and prevent reinforcement to them from surrounding villages, so as to facilitate capture of two tactically important heights; Point 2514 and 2524, in close proximity of each other. . 15 Punjab Regiment was to follow the assault force and capture the peaks. Talha Company of 6 Commando Battalion was assigned the responsibility to establish blocking position in the Eastern direction, while Jaffar Company was to clear and block resistance on the Western spur and Saad Company ensured efficacious logistics supply to entire force.

As soon as Tariq Force and Mustajab Force closed with the compounds, all at once the vicious uproar of automatic fire broke the pin drop silence of night. The terrorists had detected their movement very close to their hide out. The battle had begun and it actually presented a tough challenge for the force as they had to negotiate through unadulterated fire while moving uphill. But the terrorists did not know that they were confronting some diehard, motivated and well trained commandos. Mustajab Force provided base of fire and in its cover, Tariq Force successfully made it to the crest. The miscreants straightaway got into prepared positions and commenced engaging them from loopholes. Their most potent weapons were hand grenades, as the Tariq Force was now within grenade throwing range and his two comrades sustained multiple injuries owing to the grenades which exploded close to them. Tariq and Mustajab consulted each other on wireless sets and resorted to the same technique used earlier; Mustajab brought effective fire on miscreants' compounds to keep their heads down, while Tariq took one of his combat team close to first compound and stacked with the wall. He then very courageously started lobbing grenades from the windows of the compounds, caring little about the safety of his own life. Due to his bold action, the first compound was soon cleared and now it was the time to move to the second. But instantly, a situation arose and Company Commander having received intelligence information, ordered Mustajab to move his force North West, as it was learnt that miscreants' reinforcement was fast approaching within 15 minutes time. Tariq was now without the cover of Mustajab Force but he stayed calm and told Mustajab in measured tones, through his wireless set, not to worry him. His voice throughout the conduct of this intense operation, as heard all over the communication network was so cool and calm that he never appeared to be in the thick of the combat. His comforting voice amidst the non-stop noise of bullets fire was a real treat to listen in fact.

Captain Tariq Jamal then deputed an assault team of his force on covering role and himself moved forward to clear rest of the opposition. The automatic fire and grenades throwing by miscreants was still continuing at an intense scale. In the process, three more comrades of Capt. Tariq got hit by the splinters of grenades; one out of them seriously injured having been hit in the eyes and instantly lost his sight. This precarious situation could not at all stagger the unflinching determination of Capt. Tariq Jamal. . He administered quick first aid to the injured fellows and moved forward with even higher resolve. Next two compounds were cleared in even less time than the former. It was in fact, his daring action, high tactical sense, excellent field craft, and mastery on the use of night fighting equipment and, above all, an unwavering determination that miscreants could not withstand&#8230; and found no choice but to flee away. However, a last pocket of resistance based on a tower post was still an impediment in gaining full control of the ridge. . Tariq himself climbed up the roof top to clear the tower observation post. During advance towards the final objective, while firing a quick burst, he also received a splinter of a grenade lobbed by the last escaping miscreant.

The compound's complex was now cleared, the resistance had been eliminated, the beautiful morning of 14 August 2012 had dawned with a message of freedom and soon the follow-up force swept across the entire peak, but the hero of the action was now lying unconscious. The tiny pallet of the grenade had penetrated his brain and being a head injury, it was to be taken seriously. Soon the standby medical evacuation chopper landed at Ghilju and took this brave son of soil to Combined Military Hospital (CMH) Peshawar for emergency treatment Tariq remained admitted there for 15 days, but could not get back to mortal life. He was a chosen one and was called back by Almighty Allah on 29 August 2012 to embrace the immortal life.

"And those who die in the cause of Allah, don&#8217;t call them dead; they are alive but you don&#8217;t know that ". (Al Quran).

To my firm belief, all the martyrs have something special in their personality, which make them worthy of such eminence and nobility, and Tariq was no exception. He was brilliant as a student, obedient as a son, and very caring as a brother. His father passed away when Tariq was a young lad. But he shouldered the much enhanced responsibilities remarkably and never let his young brothers and sister feel the absence of their father. He was actually a man with so many good qualities; a lively and cherishing comrade, a good sportsman, a profession combater, an extremely cool man under stress conditions and also a very stylish person. He had his individual style in his professional and private life. In his dress code, in his conversation and in his social conduct. He possessed a balanced personality and fulfilled his professional, social and personal obligations at purity.

And last but not the least; he was a brave, fearless and a dashing commando, who contemplated no threat while defending the motherland. The heroic battle of 14August 2012 - was not his only spectacle. Just twenty days back, on 25 July, he volunteered for and led mid mission at a 'Safe house' and successfully destroyed it through a skillful demonstration of commando tactics. He always led from front and that is why his subordinates always loved to work in his command. Tariq is loved and liked by all ranks alike.

6 Commando "AL-SAMSAAM" Battalion would always miss his lively company and the treasures of his sweet memories would last in our hearts forever. To acknowledge his brave action, he has been conferred upon 'Sitara-e-Basalat' by Government of Pakistan. May Allah Almighty bless his soul with countless bounties and rewards? And may we find light of destination, following his foot prints.

Ameen.

The writer is commanding a Commando Battalion of Special Service Group (SSG).

Hilal

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## Manticore

from facebook

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## Argus Panoptes

fatman17 said:


> *A Dashing Commando &#8211; Capt. Tariq Jamal Shaheed. SBt.*
> 
> by Lt Col Amer Islam.
> 
> 
> It was a moonless, pitch dark night pre-ceding 14 August 2012, when Tariq Force and Mustajab Force left their operational base and started closing with the Terrorists' strong hold on the spur of a peak at Orakzai Agency. *This Strong hold consisted of a series of multistoried compounds.* These terrorists were responsible for massacre and displacement of hundreds of innocent people of Orakzai Agency, for no fault of them. *Capt. Tariq Jamal's unit; 6 Commando Battalion was assigned the mission to clear the strong hold miscreants and prevent reinforcement to them from surrounding villages, so as to facilitate capture of two tactically important heights; Point 2514 and 2524, in close proximity of each other.* . 15 Punjab Regiment was to follow the assault force and capture the peaks. Talha Company of 6 Commando Battalion was assigned the responsibility to establish blocking position in the Eastern direction, while Jaffar Company was to clear and block resistance on the Western spur and Saad Company ensured efficacious logistics supply to entire force.
> 
> As soon as Tariq Force and Mustajab Force closed with the compounds, all at once the vicious uproar of automatic fire broke the pin drop silence of night. *The terrorists had detected their movement very close to their hide out. The battle had begun and it actually presented a tough challenge for the force as they had to negotiate through unadulterated fire while moving uphill.* But the terrorists did not know that they were confronting some diehard, motivated and well trained commandos. Mustajab Force provided base of fire and in its cover, Tariq Force successfully made it to the crest. The miscreants straightaway got into prepared positions and commenced engaging them from loopholes. Their most potent weapons were hand grenades, as the Tariq Force was now within grenade throwing range and his two comrades sustained multiple injuries owing to the grenades which exploded close to them..................................
> 
> The writer is commanding a Commando Battalion of Special Service Group (SSG).
> 
> Hilal



Sir @fatman17 I have a question:

Why was such an operation conducted without effective air cover?

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## Bratva

Argus Panoptes said:


> Sir @fatman17 I have a question:
> 
> Why was such an operation conducted without effective air cover?



Exactly, first thought came into mind, this multi storied compound could effectively be razed through laser guided bomb while this SSG guys lasing the compound. Why this thought never came in to the mind of mission planner?

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## Argus Panoptes

Oh, wait, there's more:

"Due to his bold action, the first compound was soon cleared and now it was the time to move to the second. But instantly, *a situation arose and Company Commander having received intelligence information, ordered Mustajab to move his force North West, as it was learnt that miscreants' reinforcement was fast approaching* within 15 minutes time."

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/292-ssg-special-services-group-48.html#ixzz2V58QP2Z7

So the fact that the militants could, and would, call upon reinforcements was not considered in the operational plan?


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## SQ8

Argus Panoptes said:


> Sir @fatman17 I have a question:
> 
> Why was such an operation conducted without effective air cover?



This is actually a better operation. Certain operations were conducted without flak jackets or even arty cover. Others were conducted(ordered) by high command even with local commanders pleaded that it was a tactical folly and they would be slaughtered.

On the flipside, when such mistakes were made by higher ups.. there was brilliance in bravado and skill displayed by those lions sent by the lambs to slaughter. 
There are some actually brilliant maneuvers executed by certain bat level commanders.. but by far and large the leadership is still coping with shifting from a conventional force to a asymmetric warfare specialist.
A benefit of this(if the irony of it is a benefit).. is that PA troops are going to be extremely battle hardened.. 



Argus Panoptes said:


> Oh, wait, there's more:
> 
> "Due to his bold action, the first compound was soon cleared and now it was the time to move to the second. But instantly, *a situation arose and Company Commander having received intelligence information, ordered Mustajab to move his force North West, as it was learnt that miscreants' reinforcement was fast approaching* within 15 minutes time."
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/292-ssg-special-services-group-48.html#ixzz2V58QP2Z7
> 
> So the fact that the militants could, and would, call upon reinforcements was not considered in the operational plan?



One has to consider what is a militant's reinforcement? His brother? the next village? Tunnels upon tunnels?

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## Argus Panoptes

Oscar said:


> This is actually a better operation. Certain operations were conducted without flak jackets or even arty cover. Others were conducted(ordered) by high command even with local commanders pleaded that it was a tactical folly and they would be slaughtered.
> 
> On the flipside, when such mistakes were made by higher ups.. there was brilliance in bravado and skill displayed by those lions sent by the lambs to slaughter.
> There are some actually brilliant maneuvers executed by certain bat level commanders.. but by far and large the leadership is still coping with shifting from a conventional force to a asymmetric warfare specialist.
> A benefit of this(if the irony of it is a benefit).. is that PA troops are going to be extremely battle hardened..
> 
> 
> 
> One has to consider what is a militant's reinforcement? His brother? the next village? Tunnels upon tunnels?



The more information comes out, the more it is evident that our higher ups have no clue who are they fighting and how to best go about defeating them. What they are doing is learning on the job while the lower ranks get slaughtered. Where have we seen that before in our history? And how did that turn out for us? Will it be any different this time?

Oh, a proper contingency plan will have scenarios for all type of reinforcements from one brother to the next village to the possibility of unknown tunnels.

How long did it take to evacuate the valiant injured Capt Tariq Jamal from the time he was injured by shrapnel to getting him to the CMH? Oh wait, did we have any plans to evacuate the inured made beforehand or not?

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## Windjammer



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## Bratva

Windjammer said:


>



Person on right a A deceased captain, doesn't belong to SSG. He was shot by a sweeper at his check post which he was manning in khyber according to media reports.


----------



## justmasat

SSG is the best force in the world.And our Pakistan SSG force is the best all over in the world.i want to join it.but i am not in army.can anyone tell me that can i join it directly.i want to join SSG of Pakistan.i want to serve my Country.and i want to clear my Pakistan from terrorism.i want to finish them who wants to destroy my country.i will cut them down.


----------



## Bratva



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## Liquidmetal

Really hate the word miscreants, who the hell thought of that name to describe those terrorists, a mischievous child is a miscreant, these people are not miscreants but savages, illiterate pyschopaths, kuffars, animals, anything but not the benign miscreant.


----------



## Fieldmarshal

mafiya said:


> Person on right a A deceased captain, doesn't belong to SSG. He was shot by a sweeper at his check post which he was manning in khyber according to media reports
> 
> 
> 
> kiyah bakwas kar rahay ho tum !!!
> 
> Capt Salman Sarwar Shaheed 115 l/c , 42 lancers was the Only Son of SP Imtiaz Sarwar embraced shahdat in "Bara Operation"(14may 2013). He survived for 80 minutes with a bullet through his heart and two other in the chest while saving others, And the last thing he did was a Thumbs Up while going inside the Operation Theater....!!!
> 
> atleast have some respect for the shaheed
Click to expand...


----------



## Bratva

Fieldmarshal said:


> mafiya said:
> 
> 
> 
> Person on right a A deceased captain, doesn't belong to SSG. He was shot by a sweeper at his check post which he was manning in khyber according to media reports
> 
> 
> 
> kiyah bakwas kar rahay ho tum !!!
> 
> Capt Salman Sarwar Shaheed 115 l/c , 42 lancers was the Only Son of SP Imtiaz Sarwar embraced shahdat in "Bara Operation"(14may 2013). He survived for 80 minutes with a bullet through his heart and two other in the chest while saving others, And the last thing he did was a Thumbs Up while going inside the Operation Theater....!!!
> 
> atleast have some respect for the shaheed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sir Ji,,, Bakwas karnay say pehlay visit the thread of "honouring our martyrs and see the news clippings plus the photos posted there of captain salman . Suni Sunai baato par Jazbaati na howa karain and I better know how to respect a shaheed better than you.
> 
> http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-7-177538-Soldier-killed-in-Bara-firing
> 
> Next time, have some respect when opening your foul mouth
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Zarvan




----------



## PWFI

Super Falcon said:


> Please pakistan army chieaf give pakistan army new standard weapon and send all MP5 G3 and AK 47 to police and ranger and FC and buy MP 7 Scar and *famas *for whole army stage by stage and give all weapons available to SSG forces all king of weapons snipers shotguns pistols bombs rifles etc state of the art my heart cries when seeing AK 47 in ssg hands



Famas is a bullsh!t bro, believe me, even french army want to change it


----------



## A.Razzaq

successful operation @bolan medical complex Quetta


----------



## RAMPAGE

A.Razzaq said:


> successful operation @bolan medical complex Quetta


didn't knew that our ssg uses type 95 now !


----------



## Jango

RAMPAGE said:


> didn't knew that our ssg uses type 95 now !



That isn't SSG.

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## amanwas

Very nice and interesting post.


----------



## Zarvan

@ANTIBODY @nuclearpak @Aeronaut@WebMaster and others

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## Thorough Pro

Uniform suggests Turk brother.



GHOST RIDER said:


> The guy holding the rifle
> is he our Pakistani boy
> or Turkish soldier?


----------



## Bratva



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## Zarvan

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1390694187811762

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## Major Shaitan Singh



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## Imran Khan

in egypt

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## Major Sam

Imran Khan said:


> in egypt



What they are doing there?for training?

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## Imran Khan

usama waqas said:


> What they are doing there?for training?



bright star

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## Major Sam

Imran Khan said:


> bright star



bright star? wat it means


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## Imran Khan

usama waqas said:


> bright star? wat it means



give me your ID card and uniform you are fired from my battalion

pak navy air force commandos were in Bright Star 10
Operation Bright Star - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Major Sam

Imran Khan said:


> give me your ID card and uniform you are fired from my battalion
> 
> pak navy air force commandos were in Bright Star 10
> Operation Bright Star - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





I was thinking thats must be some training 

but wasnt knew it specifically thanks for telling me.... Cheers

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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat



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## Stealth

*Mama ye exercise kar raha hey kay Aftari *


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## Imran Khan

Stealth said:


> *Mama ye exercise kar raha hey kay Aftari *



tum nhi janty ? pose bana raha hai photo banany ke liye

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## Stealth

Imran Khan said:


> tum nhi janty ? pose bana raha hai photo banany ke liye


yaar Imi may pichlay 1 haftay say jitnay Pakistan Army kay forums hain include websites like ISPR etc aur jitne International and local web sites hain jinpe Pakistan Army/AF/Navy/SSG etc say related pictures hian search karchuka hoo ** 400X 200 kb size say opar image he nahe milti aur gatya tareen quality opar say bara bara website ka tag. koi 2000 pix may say sirf 100 pix asi hoongi mushkil say jinka size 2000X hoga woh b international kesi exercise yaan kesi training may keenchi gaye ho kesi goray nay... imaan say koi tasveer he nahe milti look US forces/now even India start proper commando Airforce, Navy etc photography to promote their forces aur ham abhe tak khali chawalyaan maar rahay hain eek he pic 400 baar har banda post karta hey kya karay

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## Imran Khan

Stealth said:


> yaar Imi may pichlay 1 haftay say jitnay Pakistan Army kay forums hain include websites like ISPR etc aur jitne International and local web sites hain jinpe Pakistan Army/AF/Navy/SSG etc say related pictures hian search karchuka hoo ** 400X 200 kb size say opar image he nahe milti aur gatya tareen quality opar say bara bara website ka tag. koi 2000 pix may say sirf 100 pix asi hoongi mushkil say jinka size 2000X hoga woh b international kesi exercise yaan kesi training may keenchi gaye ho kesi goray nay... imaan say koi tasveer he nahe milti look US forces/now even India start proper commando Airforce, Navy etc photography to promote their forces aur ham abhe tak khali chawalyaan maar rahay hain eek he pic 400 baar har banda post karta hey kya karay



ISPR images was very large sizes yaar but after they update site is no more same as APP they make it hell funny watermark on it with very small images . BTW you can apply to join them as photographer yaar


----------



## Stealth

Imran Khan said:


> ISPR images was very large sizes yaar but after they update site is no more same as APP they make it hell funny watermark on it with very small images . BTW you can apply to join them as photographer yaar



mahenay kay 20,000 rupay daykar inhonay kaam kuch b nahe karwana ... ub tu sala meri current salary pe tax itna jata hey inhonay poray mahenay ke salary meray current tax jitne deni hey ... rehnay day.....


----------



## Zarvan



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Major Shaitan Singh said:


>




Only these are SSG ... rest are regular infantry and rangers... and ive posted these pics before..

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## Biplab Bijay

Impressive.



Major Shaitan Singh said:


>

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## Bratva



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## Fieldmarshal

mafiya said:


>



a very old pic


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Biplab Bijay said:


> Impressive.



Yes only pic not 6 and 7 are SSG... rest are regular troops...

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## AUSTERLITZ

Kalashnikovs and m-16s,SSG got no love for g3.


----------



## Neptune

And they shouldn't I think. Last time I fired a G-3 my right shoulder became purple from white. Despite it's 7.62 nato cab. I like the sound you hear after shootin. m4 rockss anyways

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## Alpha1

Neptune said:


> And they shouldn't I think. Last time I fired a G-3 my right shoulder became purple from white. Despite it's 7.62 nato cab. I like the sound you hear after shootin. m4 rockss anyways


It also becomes somewhat inaccurate becoz of the recoil


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Kalashnikovs and m-16s,SSG got no love for g3.



AKs,M-4s,FN-2000,M-14s,AUGs,P90s,MP-5s,QBZs etc...



Neptune said:


> And they shouldn't I think. Last time I fired a G-3 my right shoulder became purple from white. Despite it's 7.62 nato cab. I like the sound you hear after shootin. m4 rockss anyways



I can shoot it on full auto with one hand..


----------



## AUSTERLITZ

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> AKs,M-4s,FN-2000,M-14s,AUGs,P90s,MP-5s,QBZs etc...
> 
> 
> 
> I can shoot it on full auto with one hand..



Why so many types?


----------



## Neptune

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I can shoot it on full auto with one hand..



Dude you're muscle man than. G3A7's recoil is higher than A4. To get used to it you should have practised on it. M4A1 is the way to goo

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## DESERT FIGHTER

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Why so many types?



Probably depends on their operational requirements?

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## Bratva

@Neptune @Sinan @T-123456 @BronzePlaque @cabatali_53

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## Bratva

@Neptune @Sinan @T-123456

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## Bratva



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## Last Hope

mafiya said:


>



That is Lt. Col. Haroon Islam Shaheed, lion of Lal Masjid operation, on second right.

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## Azeri440

A.Razzaq said:


> successful operation @bolan medical complex Quetta



so Pakistan is using Chinese assault rifles now


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Azeri440 said:


> so Pakistan is using Chinese assault rifles now



Several rifles,carbines are in use... for example... M4s,G3Ms,FN F2000,AUG,QBZ,P90s,MP5 several versions,AK versions,M-16s,G36Cs,UMP45 etc....while in machine guns Minimi,FN MAG,SAWs,MG3 etc are in use...

P.S : The pic isnt of SSG but paramilitary forces...

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## Neptune

@mafiya great pics brother!!! From my view I see that in int exercises it's the host nation that provides weapons. I see that we brought up MAK this year. Dude they rock. In every deployment they take part secretly. Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan...etc. Anyways,

Joint Air Force exercises OK

Joint Army exercises OK

THEN WHERE THE FUVCK IS OUR JOINT NAVAL EXERCISES??? I wanna see them too!!!

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## Bratva

Neptune said:


> @mafiya great pics brother!!! From my view I see that in int exercises it's the host nation that provides weapons. I see that we brought up MAK this year. Dude they rock. In every deployment they take part secretly. Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan...etc. Anyways,
> 
> Joint Air Force exercises OK
> 
> Joint Army exercises OK
> 
> THEN WHERE THE FUVCK IS OUR JOINT NAVAL EXERCISES??? I wanna see them too!!!



Let's wait until we deploy Turkish GENESIS combat management system in to our Perry class frigate, than we will do a joint naval exercise

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Another:

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## T-123456

Neptune said:


> @mafiya great pics brother!!! From my view I see that in int exercises it's the host nation that provides weapons. I see that we brought up MAK this year. Dude they rock. In every deployment they take part secretly. Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan...etc. Anyways,
> 
> Joint Air Force exercises OK
> 
> Joint Army exercises OK
> 
> THEN WHERE THE FUVCK IS OUR JOINT NAVAL EXERCISES??? I wanna see them too!!!


What you talking about?
No naval exercises?
What about the rowing exercise to Somalia one rower(Neptune and Armstrong) from both countries in our state of the art stealth rowing boats(in yellow and red)?



mafiya said:


> @Neptune @Sinan @T-123456 @BronzePlaque @cabatali_53


The only way it should be brotherly,ty nice pictures.

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## Thorough Pro

G3 is a field rifle not an assault rifle.



AUSTERLITZ said:


> Kalashnikovs and m-16s,SSG got no love for g3.


----------



## Fieldmarshal

pic no. 7 from the top is of regular forces, those soldiers in the pic are from a FF unit. 

ps: know a few of the officers in the pics in person and one in particular is one of my best friends.


----------



## AUSTERLITZ

Thorough Pro said:


> G3 is a field rifle not an assault rifle.



Whats the difference?


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Whats the difference?



G3 is what they call a Battle rifle long range large caliber more of a designated marksman's rifle and due to its size caliber and recoil it is not a good 'assault' rifle. how ever there is an assault version of it made by POF but still it is not something special forces would prefer as an assault rifle.


----------



## Thorough Pro

"Google" might help you



AUSTERLITZ said:


> Whats the difference?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Shaheed( sorry forgot his name):

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Guess who this is?






(Col Imam)






Capt Atif (Shaheed)






Capt Ali (Shaheed)

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## AUSTERLITZ

These days modern armies don't really distinguish between 'field' rifle and 'assault rifle,the general standard issue firearm is called assault rifle mostly,so i was confused.


----------



## Nishan_101

I think PA should have at least 21000 of SSG(A), PN 11000 SSG(N) and PAF 7000 SSWg.

They should have a starting salaries of about 50K+ with yearly increment of about 7K and for regular soldiers it should be 30K with yearly increment of about 3-5K.

Such incentives can help them a lot.


----------



## Gentelman

Nishan_101 said:


> I think PA should have at least 21000 of SSG(A), PN 11000 SSG(N) and PAF 7000 SSWg.
> 
> They should have a starting salaries of about 50K+ with yearly increment of about 7K and for regular soldiers it should be 30K with yearly increment of about 3-5K.
> 
> Such incentives can help them a lot.



I wanna meet you personally dear
are you student of Mulla Nasir-ud-Din??


----------



## Kompromat



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## Nishan_101

Gentelman said:


> I wanna meet you personally dear
> are you student of Mulla Nasir-ud-Din??



ahahahahahah....

Buddy instead of having Talibans we should have soldiers of our own.....


----------



## Gentelman

Nishan_101 said:


> ahahahahahah....
> 
> Buddy instead of having Talibans we should have soldiers of our own.....



bhai aisay bachon wallay kam to na kia kar na&#8230;&#8230;
tu jo kehta hai na wo aisay hai
aik pathan na mobile lia
doston na kha treat
pathan bazar gia mobile beecha
or doston ko treat dey dee
teri Farmishain itni hain kay bas Pakistan baich doo or phir leetay raho poori dunian ki weaponary&#8230;&#8230;


----------



## Irfan Baloch

their mental & religious training is a must as well in current times.
some ex SSG are in TTP and LeJ ranks thats why they time and again shame our security forces.

recall Lal masjid episode, there were some SSG personnel who refused to attack Ghazi brothers and also the bombing of the SSG mess afterwords was only possible through the inside help and there have been news circling in Mangla (the home of Musa company) that a Capitan gunned down some known SSG personnel who had taken part in the Lal Masjid operation

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## Irfan Baloch

DESERT FIGHTER said:


>



if someone can confirm, is the last name on the mile stone of the place called Pubbi near Peshawar?

by the way I feel very cynical looking at the top names of the places on this special mile stone. bit over ambitious I would say
mentioning distance to Jerusalem, Sri Nagr, Dehli, ....
there might be a counter mile stone 

by TTP & LeJ showing 

Kamra airbase, GHQ, Bolan Medical college & Hospital, Mehran Air base

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## Nishan_101

Gentelman said:


> bhai aisay bachon wallay kam to na kia kar na
> tu jo kehta hai na wo aisay hai
> aik pathan na mobile lia
> doston na kha treat
> pathan bazar gia mobile beecha
> or doston ko treat dey dee
> teri Farmishain itni hain kay bas Pakistan baich doo or phir leetay raho poori dunian ki weaponary



Yeah! Right. Thanks a lot.


----------



## untitled

Liquidmetal said:


> Really hate the word miscreants, who the hell thought of that name to describe those terrorists, a mischievous child is a miscreant,.......



Miscreant was the word that was used to describe anti-social elements of yesterday. I believe the Pakistani military used the same word for Mukti Bahni

The word terrorist has only become popular in the last 30 years or so

Correct me if I am wrong


----------



## Major Shaitan Singh



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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

From Op raherast Swat:

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Capt Bilal Zafar Abassi Shaheed:

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## arushbhai

Totally digging these commandos but i just hate their 60s ak 47s. They should be using accurate recoil less weapons that americans or europeans use. AK 47s are big, heavy, have huge recoil, make massive noise and flash plus their fire rate is much lower than american guns of that caliber. If you want to prove me wrong, please do a little comparison research on AK 47 with its counterparts.

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## arslan_treen

arushbhai said:


> Totally digging these commandos but i just hate their 60s ak 47s. They should be using accurate recoil less weapons that americans or europeans use. AK 47s are big, heavy, have huge recoil, make massive noise and flash plus their fire rate is much lower than american guns of that caliber. If you want to prove me wrong, please do a little comparison research on AK 47 with its counterparts.



Within next two years All Aks will be replaced by Colt M4s infact it has been declared as the official assault weapon for SSG . 
Two companies are already equipped with them and rest are soon to be ,but still like any special forces multiple firearms will be and are the part of SSG Arsenal with AK being on the top of list for most special forces, for certain operational reasons.


----------



## arushbhai

arslan_treen said:


> Within next two years All Aks will be replaced by Colt M4s infact it has been declared as the official assault weapon for SSG .
> Two companies are already equipped with them and rest are soon to be ,but still like any special forces multiple firearms will be and are the part of SSG Arsenal with AK being on the top of list for most special forces, for certain operational reasons.


what about infantry units? What guns will they be getting? I hate those massive guns they have. Infantry also needs lighter, recoilless and higher fire rate guns


----------



## Kompromat



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## Kompromat

Apparently SSG has bought some FN-SCAR | H.






From SSG Page on Facebook.

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## GHOST RIDER

I know that to join the SSG a soldier must have 2 years millitary experience
but I read somewhere that you have to be the rank of Captain (minimum) to join SSG
Somebody please clarify
@nuclearpak @fatman17 @Aeronaut


----------



## Rafi

New Special Forces so-called "Recon" units to be provided to all large formations, will be special forces all in but name.

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## RescueRanger

Aeronaut said:


> Apparently SSG has bought some FN-SCAR | H.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From SSG Page on Facebook.



Now that is a nice bit of kit!

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## Kompromat

RescueRanger said:


> Now that is a nice bit of kit!



I think it should be the standard rifle of the SSGs.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Aeronaut said:


> Apparently SSG has bought some FN-SCAR | H.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From SSG Page on Facebook.



I dnt consider FB reliable.

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## Kompromat

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I dnt consider FB reliable.



So don't i, but i tried my best to dig up this image somewhere else but couldn't any. This image was uploaded by a guy who usually uploads credible SSG images. It cant be said for certain though.

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## Amaa'n

Aeronaut said:


> Apparently SSG has bought some FN-SCAR | H.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From SSG Page on Facebook.



Yar if this was the case you should have told me before, the ssg page on fb is Not reloable, as Mod is a fanboy, he will post pics of foreign forces have claim them to be ssg.

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## Amaa'n

I was wrong about the mag, this is the standard issue for civilian version


----------



## Kompromat

balixd said:


> Yar if this was the case you should have told me before, the ssg page on fb is Not reloable, as Mod is a fanboy, he will post pics of foreign forces have claim them to be ssg.



That was why i wrote apparently with an underline. As i wrote above, that i have not found this image anywhere else either.


----------



## Najam Khan

Special forces and their love for "murghi" .

I have seen a video of SSW men tasting hen in the same way, among those who have tasted frogs, hen and snake mostly like taste of snakes

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## nsaqib20013

sir Can you tell me how to join SSC SSGN SSW SOW. plz


----------



## Windjammer



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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat

JNG-90 BORA

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Yadgaar e Shuhada.. 








STF:


























SSG:

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## DESERT FIGHTER

STF:

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## DESERT FIGHTER

UN mission... training some african army..(dnt know which country)

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## Umair Nawaz

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> STF:



STF????......


----------



## Kompromat

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> UN mission... training some african army..(dnt know which country)




Those are Saudis.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Umair Nawaz said:


> STF????......



According to tehseen sahab they are PMs,Presidents body guards... on FB pages they are called STF or special task force... but again tehseen (sorry forgot ur name) isnt 100% sure either... but from their uniform,tactics etc..VIP protection etc.... they dnt look from SSG,SSW or SSN either...so im guess specialised anti terrorist force..

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## Kompromat

They look more like a specialized counter terrorist unit.


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## krash

Umair Nawaz said:


> STF????......





DESERT FIGHTER said:


> According to tehseen sahab they are PMs,Presidents body guards... on FB pages they are called STF or special task force... but again tehseen (sorry forgot ur name) isnt 100% sure either... but from their uniform,tactics etc..VIP protection etc.... they dnt look from SSG,SSW or SSN either...so im guess specialised anti terrorist force..





Aeronaut said:


> They look more like a specialized counter terrorist unit.



Think they're these guys. Was wondering where they went.

Pakistani SWAT team - YouTube

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## Imran Khan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> According to tehseen sahab they are PMs,Presidents body guards... on FB pages they are called STF or special task force... but again tehseen (sorry forgot ur name) isnt 100% sure either... but from their uniform,tactics etc..VIP protection etc.... they dnt look from SSG,SSW or SSN either...so im guess specialised anti terrorist force..



thye are nothing . should i wrrite again ? these pics are from training center which USA runs as cover CIA . we don't need this training nor it was a training it was joke of CIA with us .



krash said:


> Think they're these guys. Was wondering where they went.
> 
> Pakistani SWAT team - YouTube



they went back to thier units in rangers FC .it was not a SWAT but blunder .


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Imran Khan said:


> thye are nothing . should i wrrite again ? these pics are from training center which USA runs as cover CIA . we don't need this training nor it was a training it was joke of CIA with us .



I see Pakistani instructors training them...




> they went back to thier units in rangers FC .it was not a SWAT but blunder .




SWAT = Police... not FC or rangers... hath hola rakho badshaho!


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## Imran Khan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> UN mission... training some african army..(dnt know which country)



not UN mission but SANG getting traing in pakistan by SSG .pic taken by our great hero Amjad Razaq Shaheed SSG(N)

herre are more from same days 








DESERT FIGHTER said:


> UN mission... training some african army..(dnt know which country)



not UN mission but SANG getting traing in pakistan by SSG .pic taken by our great hero Amjad Razaq Shaheed SSG(N)

herre are more from same days

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## Imran Khan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I see Pakistani instructors training them...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SWAT = Police... not FC or rangers... hath hola rakho badshaho!



well i have in my tinny brain full story of this training .  and dear USA did us so much behind this . i have compleate set of photos of these trainings with US guys and FC -rangers guys getting so called gun catch open door fake training 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/39043-retired-pakistani-commandos-were-trained-us-contractor.html


http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/37127-us-trainers-sihala-college-spying-krl.html

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## Gentelman

Why the hell SSG can't issue standard boots???
atleast a standard colour for boots
I am tired of watching different types of boots


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Imran Khan said:


> well i have in my tinny brain full story of this training .  and dear USA did us so much behind this . i have compleate set of photos of these trainings with US guys and FC -rangers guys getting so called gun catch open door fake training
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/39043-retired-pakistani-commandos-were-trained-us-contractor.html
> 
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/37127-us-trainers-sihala-college-spying-krl.html



Bhai its been years when US instructors were sent packing.. these forces are bring trained by Pakistani instructors as u can see the man in t-shirt..


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Army+SSG+FC:

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## Kompromat

@Yzd Khalifa I got you baby.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Aeronaut said:


> @Yzd Khalifa I got you baby.



 gotta kill 'em all

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## Rafi

Aeronaut said:


> @Yzd Khalifa I got you baby.



This guy looks fcking hardcore.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Rafi said:


> This guy looks fcking hardcore.



Its a rare treat.. to see awesome SF pics.

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## Rafi

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Its a rare treat.. to see awesome SF pics.



Yes it is brother, pretty cool as an avatar as well

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## Imran Khan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Bhai its been years when US instructors were sent packing.. these forces are bring trained by Pakistani instructors as u can see the man in t-shirt..



yes 
Pakistan sends home American military trainers as mutual mistrust deepens
10 Jun 2011
Pakistan has sent home two thirds of the American soldiers training its paramilitary border forces, as mistrust over the killing of Osama bin Laden continues to blight relations between the allies.
Ninety of the 135 US service personnel training Pakistan's Frontier Corps have left the country after Islamabad officials said they had "reassessed our requirements".

The Pentagon had confirmed it was reducing the number of troops, but had not given a figure.

A Pakistani military official said: "Where essential elements are required we are keeping them. In very critical areas of maintenance and technical capability, where we do not have the qualified people then we are keeping them.

"But otherwise they are being asked to leave." 


Pakistan sends home American military trainers as mutual mistrust deepens - Telegraph


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## Zarvan

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=562933030417761




SHAHBAZ GROUP - SSG PAKISTAN





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=542817779095953




SSW Commandos - Commando Division of PAF

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## Zarvan

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10151266645356899




Gutts off SSG check this video @Aeronaut @Leader @Imran Khan @nuclearpak @Rafi @Areesh @Mosamania @Yzd Khalifa @RazPaK @Arabian Legend and others

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## Zarvan




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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10151266645356899
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gutts off SSG check this video @Aeronaut @Leader @Imran Khan @nuclearpak @Rafi @Areesh @Mosamania @Yzd Khalifa @RazPaK @Arabian Legend and others



These are ELITE FORCE/POLICE ... not SSG! Look at the T-Shirt hes wearing:

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## Arabian Legend

KSA police academy






Homeland security

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> These are ELITE FORCE/POLICE ... not SSG! Look at the T-Shirt hes wearing:



They don't look like to me from Elite Police still that is height of bravery+stupidity


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> They don't look like to me from Elite Police still that is height of bravery+stupidity



Elite cops are trained by SSG... before tht the americans.. who were sent packing... you might want to see this thread:


http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...lice-rangers-law-enforcement-agencies-37.html

Page number 37...


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## Kompromat

Zarvan said:


>



THAT is a very dangerous bag.


----------



## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


> THAT is a very dangerous bag.



And Why is that ?


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## Zarvan




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## Imran Khan

Zarvan said:


> And Why is that ?



baba atom bomb ka remote control hai is main 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

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## Zarvan

Imran Khan said:


> baba atom bomb ka remote control hai is main
> 
> Nuclear football - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Holy **** that is an important thing and I am going to steal it hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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## Imran Khan

Zarvan said:


> Holy **** that is an important thing and I am going to steal it hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



can you ? ?????/ lolz even you steal it how you will know codes and secure passwords to send SPD for ready to fire missiles ?

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## Zarvan

Imran Khan said:


> can you ? ?????/ lolz even you steal it how you will know codes and secure passwords to send SPD for ready to fire missiles ?


Man just steal it once I would be famous who cares about else

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## Imran Khan

Zarvan said:


> Man just steal it once I would be famous who cares about else



you sure you will be as soon as news will come on tv 
*

&#1606;&#1575;&#1592;&#1585;&#1740;&#1606; &#1575;&#1740;&#1705; &#1606;&#1575; &#1605;&#1593;&#1604;&#1608;&#1605; &#1605;&#1587;&#1604;&#1581; &#1588;&#1582;&#1589; &#1606;&#1746; &#1570;&#1585;&#1605;&#1740; &#1670;&#1740;&#1601; &#1705;&#1740; &#1587;&#1740;&#1705;&#1740;&#1608;&#1585;&#1657;&#1740; &#1585;&#1606;&#1711; &#1578;&#1608;&#1681;&#1606;&#1746; &#1705;&#1740; &#1705;&#1608;&#1588;&#1588; &#1705;&#1740; &#1575;&#1608;&#1585; &#1575;&#1740;&#1657;&#1605;&#1740; &#1601;&#1657; &#1576;&#1575;&#1604; &#1576;&#1585;&#1740;&#1601; &#1705;&#1740;&#1587; &#1575;&#1657;&#1726;&#1575;&#1606;&#1746; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1746; &#1576;&#1575;&#1672;&#1740; &#1711;&#1575;&#1585;&#1672; &#1581;&#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1575;&#1585; &#1576;&#1575;&#1587;&#1591; &#1705;&#1740; &#1601;&#1575;&#1574;&#1606;&#1585;&#1606;&#1711; &#1587;&#1746; &#1729;&#1604;&#1575;&#1705; &#1729;&#1608; &#1711;&#1740;&#1575; &#1748; *

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## Kompromat

@Zarvan

Its Nuclear Football.

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## hkdas

Zarvan said:


>



this photo is of us navy seals


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## F.O.X

Aeronaut said:


> THAT is a very dangerous bag.



Its a Jammer .

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## Zarvan

Imran Khan said:


> you sure you will be as soon as news will come on tv
> *
> 
> &#1606;&#1575;&#1592;&#1585;&#1740;&#1606; &#1575;&#1740;&#1705; &#1606;&#1575; &#1605;&#1593;&#1604;&#1608;&#1605; &#1605;&#1587;&#1604;&#1581; &#1588;&#1582;&#1589; &#1606;&#1746; &#1570;&#1585;&#1605;&#1740; &#1670;&#1740;&#1601; &#1705;&#1740; &#1587;&#1740;&#1705;&#1740;&#1608;&#1585;&#1657;&#1740; &#1585;&#1606;&#1711; &#1578;&#1608;&#1681;&#1606;&#1746; &#1705;&#1740; &#1705;&#1608;&#1588;&#1588; &#1705;&#1740; &#1575;&#1608;&#1585; &#1575;&#1740;&#1657;&#1605;&#1740; &#1601;&#1657; &#1576;&#1575;&#1604; &#1576;&#1585;&#1740;&#1601; &#1705;&#1740;&#1587; &#1575;&#1657;&#1726;&#1575;&#1606;&#1746; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1746; &#1576;&#1575;&#1672;&#1740; &#1711;&#1575;&#1585;&#1672; &#1581;&#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1575;&#1585; &#1576;&#1575;&#1587;&#1591; &#1705;&#1740; &#1601;&#1575;&#1574;&#1606;&#1585;&#1606;&#1711; &#1587;&#1746; &#1729;&#1604;&#1575;&#1705; &#1729;&#1608; &#1711;&#1740;&#1575; &#1748; *



Dam not a good news change of Plan go for other plan


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## Kompromat

F.O.X said:


> Its a Jammer .



Its nuclear football, no?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

F.O.X said:


> Its a Jammer .



Or a bullet proof blanket.


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## F.O.X

Aeronaut said:


> Its nuclear football, no?





DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Or a bullet proof blanket.





no .. its just a Jammer .


----------



## Kompromat

F.O.X said:


> no .. its just a Jammer .



Why is it carried everwhere Kiyani goes by the same guy?


----------



## F.O.X

Aeronaut said:


> Why is it carried everwhere Kiyani goes by the same guy?



That I have no idea about .. but if i have to guess i would say because he is a part of permanent security detail of Kiyani .. as other members are rotated .


----------



## Kompromat

F.O.X said:


> That I have no idea about .. but if i have to guess i would say because he is a part of permanent security detail of Kiyani .. as other members are rotated .



Frequent rotation is why everyone thinks its the nuclear football - why would jammers be carried in a briefcase?

US - NF.

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## Zarvan

F.O.X said:


> That I have no idea about .. but if i have to guess i would say because he is a part of permanent security detail of Kiyani .. as other members are rotated .



Man but that man is massive

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## F.O.X

Aeronaut said:


> Frequent rotation is why everyone thinks its the nuclear football - why would jammers be carried in a briefcase?
> 
> US - NF.



These are not mobile Jammers .. they are for Building .. the one SSG is holding has a few 100 meters range .. just to make sure no Remote & wireless explosion happens .. Nuclear football is american concept .. Pakistan does not use that one .. we have another way ..


----------



## Kompromat

F.O.X said:


> These are not mobile Jammers .. they are for Building .. the one SSG is holding has a few 100 meters range .. just to make sure no Remote & wireless explosion happens .. Nuclear football is american concept .. Pakistan does not use that one .. we have another way ..




No - Russians, Chinese , Brits too use nuclear football.


----------



## F.O.X

Aeronaut said:


> No - Russians, Chinese , Brits too use nuclear football.



ok Sir it is Nuclear Football .


----------



## Kompromat

F.O.X said:


> ok Sir it is Nuclear Football .



I'm not arguing with you, i'm just saying that NF is widely used.


----------



## F.O.X

Aeronaut said:


> I'm not arguing with you, i'm just saying that NF is widely used.



That is true .. however not every country uses Black Briefcase .. as it is too easily marked .. what if i tell you that even USA black briefcase is decoy ..


----------



## RAMPAGE

F.O.X said:


> Nuclear football is american concept .. Pakistan does not use that one .. *we have another way ..*


yara i would really like to know what's the other way !!!

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## nwmalik

should photos be posted with full exposure?
shouldn't the face be covered of all these soldiers?


----------



## Panther 57

> should photos be posted with full exposure?
> shouldn't the face be covered of all these soldiers?


In my opinion NO. I have read some youngsters, in the heat of moment, talkabout full strategies, which is also wrong. It may be a Pakistan Defence Forum, but its not classified and people from all over the world can read. Chances are that some information which may not be available to listening ears, can also reach. And so is the identity of our defenders.

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## Zarvan




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## Zarvan



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## Zarvan

@Aeronaut @Icarus @Xeric @Rafi @Oscar @nuclearpak Which gun is this and why the upper thing is so big

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## kbd-raaf

Zarvan said:


> @Aeronaut @Icarus @Xeric @Rafi @Oscar @nuclearpak Which gun is this and why the upper thing is so big



Thermal imaging scope if I'm not wrong and it's the Steyr Scout I believe. The SSG use them in decent numbers.

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## Kompromat

kbd-raaf said:


> Thermal imaging scope if I'm not wrong and it's the Steyr Scout I believe. The SSG use them in decent numbers.



No, its Steyr-SSG 69 with an all weather optical suite. Thermal/NVG are strap ons. 
Its a bolt action rifle and is considered to be extremely accurate. This guys is most likely from 'Zarrar'.

Looks like the SSG is busy training Army Marksmen and Snipers - all other guys are from the Army, so this guy has to be from the SSG, loaned to the Army as a trainer.

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## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


> No, its Steyr-SSG 69 with an all weather optical suite. Thermal/NVG are strap ons.
> Its a bolt action rifle and is considered to be extremely accurate. This guys is most likely from 'Zarrar'.
> 
> Looks like the SSG is busy training Army Marksmen and Snipers - all other guys are from the Army, so this guy has to be from the SSG, loaned to the Army as a trainer.



Man My Uncle who was in SSG retired 4 years ago told me that SSG would have around 4000 to 4500 guys man that is too low in Army 550000 only 45000 SSG Dam


----------



## Zarvan



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## Inception-06

Zarvan said:


>




Now we can use this captured AA Gun in our own Bunkers SWAT or along the LOC against India !

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## Imran Khan

Ulla said:


> Now we can use this captured AA Gun in our own Bunkers SWAT or along the LOC against India !



its not captured . Pakistan use ZPU-1 ZPU-2 - ZPU-4 since 60s

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## Zarvan



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## Imran Khan

@ Zarvan
bus ker de yaar we seen these pics 12834787 times . bring new or leave it . i can post 500 unseen images which i took myself but i can't


----------



## Inception-06

Imran Khan said:


> its not captured . Pakistan use ZPU-1 ZPU-2 - ZPU-4 since 60s



I know it, I have also pictures where the 14,5mm Soviet AA gun is stationed at Siachen, but we did never buy it officially, so we have it in low numbers, it is not integrated like others weapons for example the Type-59 37mm AA Gun in the Army Corps, only some units have it....right ?


----------



## Shaped charge

the 14.5mm and 37mm could be from the Chinese supplies during the afghan war


----------



## Kompromat

@Zarvan

*- Actual numbers of SOF are classified.

*- Even 5000 SSGs are a very large number of SOF according to global standards. SOF aren't easy to train. It takes 7 years for every man in total.

*- Apart from SSG we also have SSW,SEALs and Special Operations Wing.


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## Edevelop




----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

Zarvan said:


> @Aeronaut @Icarus @Xeric @Rafi @Oscar @nuclearpak Which gun is this and why the upper thing is so big


Any one Noticed in the distance ther is a 50 cal with a similar scope..can any one elaborate a little on the optical suite on these babys. also mg3 with one


----------



## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


> @Zarvan
> 
> *- Actual numbers of SOF are classified.
> 
> *- Even 5000 SSGs are a very large number of SOF according to global standards. SOF aren't easy to train. It takes 7 years for every man in total.
> 
> *- Apart from SSG we also have SSW,SEALs and Special Operations Wing.



Is Seals different from SSG ?


----------



## Zarvan



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## Abingdonboy

I don't know if this has been posted before:









SSG commando during 2005 floods wih a US army CH-47 delivering aid in the background.


----------



## Thorough Pro

Thermal imaging scopes are used at night not in broad daylight.

(I think I didn't have enough knowledge about the subject, hence the above reply which apparently is not correct.) 



kbd-raaf said:


> Thermal imaging scope if I'm not wrong and it's the Steyr Scout I believe. The SSG use them in decent numbers.


----------



## Kompromat

Thorough Pro said:


> Thermal imaging scopes are used at night not in broad daylight.



Lalaji - these scopes have 'multiple sensors/optics' - they can be turned on or off. That scope has a normal day light scope, as well as thermal sensor. They are like strap ons, can be strapped on or off.

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## Thorough Pro

Didn't know that, I thought thermal scopes were dedicated thermal scopes with no use in daytime. thanks for the info, I guess I need to study the subject some more. 




Aeronaut said:


> Lalaji - these scopes have 'multiple sensors/optics' - they can be turned on or off. That scope has a normal day light scope, as well as thermal sensor. They are like strap ons, can be strapped on or off.


----------



## Kompromat

Thorough Pro said:


> Didn't know that, I thought thermal scopes were dedicated thermal scopes with no use in daytime. thanks for the info, I guess I need to study the subject some more.



This should explain it all.


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## Zarvan



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## Zarvan



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## Zarvan

Ak-103 used by Pakistan SSG @Aeronaut Man I would love to have at least 3 of these

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## Rafi



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## Rafi



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## Zarvan



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## Zarvan



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## Kompromat

@Zarvan Stop repeating images.

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## Zarvan



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## Zarvan



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## Zarvan



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## Zarvan



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## Zarvan



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## DESERT FIGHTER

@Zarvan dont post pics man... coz either they are super old,reposts or dnt even belong to institution being discussed!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Imran Khan said:


> its not captured . Pakistan use ZPU-1 ZPU-2 - ZPU-4 since 60s








This pic is from the years old swat operation n the gun was captured from taliban.

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## Zarvan



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## Zarvan



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## Zarvan

At current Pakistan Marines consists of 2000 - 5000 troops or we can say that we don't know its actual strength. It is similar to United States Marine Corps USMC or Royal Marines of Britain. Its an amphibious or expeditionary force and a branch of Pakistan Navy.

We need at least 40000 troops in Marine Corps for addressing the issues from Naval Fronts. Every kilometer lost on land results thousands of nautical miles lost on sea so we should concentrate on our coasts and specially on Run of Kutch area which is strategically important as well as rich mineral resources have in it.

Before Pak Marines, the duty of saving our Marshy Areas from enemy foots was designated to SSG Navy, a force just like US Navy SEALs but Marines are now doing this duty with full responsibility. They have many other works to do but SirCreek Area is one of their main responsibilities. Pak Marines inducted 3rd Battalion few days ago but in my opinion we need at least 2 divisions of these men with 100 large and small hovercrafts and 100 different types of helis. Air Defense and Artillery should also spread their arms for Marines and at least reconnaissance UAVs should be inducted in force. This all must be done before 2017 in order to create enough deterrence against any type of possible future Naval conflict.

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## Zarvan



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## Yzd Khalifa

Special Service Group (Navy) - SSG(N) - Pakistan - YouTube

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## Zarvan

@Aeronaut @Rafi @mafiya @Imran Khan @DESERT FIGHTER and others remember him ?????????????????

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## Bratva

Zarvan said:


> @Aeronaut @Rafi @mafiya @Imran Khan @DESERT FIGHTER and others remember him ?????????????????



Who is he?


----------



## Zarvan

mafiya said:


> Who is he?



The legendary Brigadier TM Tariq Mahmood the most awesome SSG guy ever

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## Imran Khan

mafiya said:


> Who is he?



yes SSG boss the great brig T-M

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## Zarvan



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## Zarvan



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## Kompromat

New SSG patches.

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## Hyperion

Lala, yeh kuch ziyada hee Amreekan nahi ho gayya???? 



Aeronaut said:


> New SSG patches.

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## Kompromat

@Hyperion

Metal patches look trash.

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## Kompromat



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## Zarvan



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## Zarvan



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## Zarvan

@Aeronaut @balixd @Imran Khan @Oscar @nuclearpak @Antibody @Icarus @Xeric @Areesh @A.Rafay @Rafi @Spring Onion 
OOOOOOOOOOOOO that hurts

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## Rafi

Zarvan said:


> @Aeronaut @balixd @Imran Khan @Oscar @nuclearpak @Antibody @Icarus @Xeric @Areesh @A.Rafay @Rafi @Spring Onion
> OOOOOOOOOOOOO that hurts



Smashed it.


----------



## Liquidmetal

Aeronaut said:


>



If only they could learn to use a spell check!

And - Now They Belong to Ages? What does that mean? The title is nonsense. 

If only they paid the same respect to the English language. Oh well.


----------



## Jango

Aeronaut said:


> Metal patches look trash.



They aren't patches...please compare:






There is also a hatch for the underslung hook.


----------



## Xestan

Liquidmetal said:


> If only they could learn to use a spell check!
> 
> And - Now They Belong to Ages? What does that mean? The title is nonsense.
> 
> If only they paid the same respect to the English language. Oh well.



Only if you had enough knowledge about the subject! Well, I'm not an English expert but as far as I know, this is a famous quote "He/they belong to the ages", it was first used for Abraham Lincoln, after his assassination, then numerous poems have used this phrase, mostly, used to pay tribute to soldiers.

"Now they belong to ages" simply means that "They have attained immortality in death". I hope now you understand, and btw, most of the SSG guys are well educated, so they don't need any english lesson. Good Day!

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## Xestan

Liquidmetal said:


> If only they could learn to use a spell check!
> 
> And - Now They Belong to Ages? What does that mean? The title is nonsense.
> 
> If only they paid the same respect to the English language. Oh well.



Only if you had enough knowledge about the subject! Well, I'm not an English expert but as far as I know, this is a famous quote "He/they belong to the ages", it was first used for Abraham Lincoln, after his assassination, then numerous poems have used this phrase, mostly, used to pay tribute to soldiers.

"Now they belong to ages" simply means that "They have attained immortality in death". I hope now you understand, and btw, most of the SSG guys are well educated, so they don't need any english lesson. Good Day!

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## Liquidmetal

Xestan said:


> Only if you had enough knowledge about the subject! Well, I'm not an English expert but as far as I know, this is a famous quote "He/they belong to the ages", it was first used for Abraham Lincoln, after his assassination, then numerous poems have used this phrase, mostly, used to pay tribute to soldiers.
> 
> "Now they belong to ages" simply means that "They have attained immortality in death". I hope now you understand, and btw, most of the SSG guys are well educated, so they don't need any english lesson. Good Day!



Thanks for education, apologies to all for my ill educated post. You learn something new everyday. Indeed the quote 'Now He Belongs to Ages' was quoted when Abe Lincoln was assassinated. Thus I understand why the SSG used this as the title for the monument to remember our fallen heroes. 

However, at the risk of being booed further, the spelling for beacon is wrong, which is why I was prompted to write my poor post. Nevertheless, now that I understand the historical link for this monument, what is said on this monument is pretty awesome.


----------



## Panther 57

Liquidmetal said:


> Thanks for education, apologies to all for my ill educated post. You learn something new everyday. Indeed the quote 'Now He Belongs to Ages' was quoted when Abe Lincoln was assassinated. Thus I understand why the SSG used this as the title for the monument to remember our fallen heroes.
> 
> However, at the risk of being booed further, the spelling for beacon is wrong, which is why I was prompted to write my poor post. However, now that I understand the historical link for this monument, what is said on this monument is pretty awesome.


Even if the spelling is wrong, it does not make any difference as long as message is conveyed. After all English is not our mother tongue. Yet, the whole plaque is well articulated and grammatically correct. So they get 200 out of 100 for having such expertise in a foreign language

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## Liquidmetal

Panther 57 said:


> Even if the spelling is wrong, it does not make any difference as long as message is conveyed. After all English is not our mother tongue. Yet, the whole plaque is well articulated and grammatically correct. So they get 200 out of 100 for having such expertise in a foreign language



May I respectfully disagree. I understand what you mean, but in my mind it is not the education, since the plaque is so well written, yet there is a small mistake, which indicates a lazy attitude. 

If you accept small mistakes in English or else where, then there is always the niggling feeling that somehow other areas would also be left as it is, and wars do not allow for such laziness. It is this overall teek hay attitude in the country and some of it has filtered down to the armed forces that allows the TTP to score victories like the killing of General Sana. You have got to admit that someone somewhere just did not do his job to allow the IED to go undetected in a supposedly cleared area!

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## Panther 57

Liquidmetal said:


> May I respectfully disagree. I understand what you mean, but in my mind it is not the education, since the plaque is so well written, yet there is a small mistake, which indicates a lazy attitude.
> 
> If you accept small mistakes in English or else where, then there is always the niggling feeling that somehow other areas would also be left as it is, and wars do not allow for such laziness. It is this overall teek hay attitude in the country and some of it has filtered down to the armed forces that allows the TTP to score victories like the killing of General Sana. You have got to admit that someone somewhere just did not do his job to allow the IED to go undetected in a supposedly cleared area!



It is not a thek hai attitude just a minor clerical error, which was overlooked.


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## Zarvan



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## Inception-06

Zarvan said:


>



This are Pakistan Marines not SSG or anything special....^^


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## Kompromat

Ulla said:


> This are Pakistan Marines not SSG or anything special....^^



SSGN not Pak Marine.


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## Inception-06

Aeronaut said:


> SSGN not Pak Marine.



Which one of this Officers is a SSGN Soldier ? Do You mean the "Body Guard" ? with the red Barret ?


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## Kompromat

Ulla said:


> Which one of this Officers is a SSGN Soldier ? Do You mean the "Body Guard" ? with the red Barret ?



All of them are from SSGN - the guard is from SSG.

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## Inception-06

Aeronaut said:


> All of them are from SSGN - the guard is from SSG.



Pls can you explain me how we know that they are from SSGN and not Officers from the Marine Battalion ? (I know this picture very well it is from a exercise of the Marine Battalion.........)


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## Kompromat

Ulla said:


> Pls can you explain me how we know that they are from SSGN and not Officers from the Marine Battalion ? (I know this picture very well it is from a exercise of the Marine Battalion.........)



I stand corrected, however they wear a similar camouflage so its confusing - SEALs wear black gear most of the time. The guy on the far right with sun glasses is from the Special Forces. Then you have the Chief of Naval Staff wearing the same uniform. Few folks behind may well be from the Marines.

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## F.O.X

One of the Good pictures of SSG, showing actual combat formation.

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## fatman17

*Pakistan Special Service Group*


Mandeep Singh Bajwa

V.1 November 18, 2000


Editor's note: Additional information regarding historical background, training, qualification, and uniforms is available at called specialoperations.com. This site can be accessed through www.specialoperations.com/foreign/Pakistan . It also has graphics of the Pakistan Naval SSG including uniform and badges. As we have not yet obtained permission from the website to duplicate some of their material, we request readers to proceed directly to the site. Because there are some differences between information provided on the specialoperations.com website and this article, we have listed the main differences. With all respect to the authors of the specialoperations.com article, who appear to be Pakistani, the information provided by Mr. Bajwa is more accurate when there is a conflict.

Mr. Bajwa writes:

Background and History
The Pakistani Army&#8217;s special forces were raised as the Special Service Group in 1956 using the cadre of 19 (Para) Baloch. [Editor's note: Pakistan now calls the Baluch Regiment the Baloch Regiment. The former spelling is the British version, and reflects a slight difference in pronunciation.] Their first CO was Lt. Col. (later Maj. Gen.) Abu Bakr Osman Mitha. 

[specialoperations.com says that the SSG consisted of 24 companies at the time it was designated as such. This is an extraordinarily high figure. Mr. Bajwa reports that the SSG had six companies and this is more likely.]

Their initial training and orientation as regards tactics was based on the US Special Forces pattern with whom they co-operated closely in the Cold War years. Later Chinese training, tactics, weapons, and equipment were also introduced. 

After a few preliminary operations on the Afghan border, the nascent SSG&#8217;s first test came during the 1965 war. Around 100 officers and men were dropped on the night of 6/7 September near the Indian airbases of Adampur, Pathankot and Halwara in an ill-conceived operation to destroy Indian combat aircraft and put the bases out of action. Badly planned, lacking any solid intelligence, and even more badly executed the operation ended in a disaster. The SSG commandos fell easy prey to hastily gathered Indian troops and adventurous civilians. Only a handful made it back to their own country after numerous travails. No Indian planes were damaged or casualties inflicted on Indian troops.

By 1971, the SSG boasted of 3 battalions with one permanently stationed in East Pakistan. Their performance in the 1971 war was much better with 1 Commando Battalion making a spectacular raid on an Indian artillery regiment and disabling several of their guns besides inflicting casualties. 3 Commando Battalion in Bangladesh performed creditably in a normal infantry role. The SSG&#8217;s role in the Afghan War was highly commendable and much of the credit for the spectacular successes of the Mujahideen goes to them.

Likewise, they have fought well in Siachen though in one or two instances taking heavy casualties. In the preliminary stages of the 1999 Kargil Operations the SSG performed well, infiltrating relatively deep into Indian territory undetected. Subsequently being used as stock infantry troops to hold posts/defensive positions, they took heavy casualties and suffered the mortification of being &#8216;denied&#8217; by their own country.

In 1980, an anti-terrorist role was given to Musa Company, which was originally formed in 1970 as a combat diver unit. This company was subsequently trained by British SAS advisers in mid-1981. In 1980 however each battalion was given a diver unit. The battalion in East Pakistan earlier had a frogman platoon with which it was planned by Gen. A.A.K. Niazi (GOC Pakistan Eastern Command) to attack the Indian Farakka Barrage. This emphasis on frogmen, however, means that the Indian Army can expect underwater attacks on its combat bridges in case of a conventional war.

Deployment
At present, there are three Commando battalions, a frogmen company, and an anti-terrorist company. The whole is controlled by a Group HQ commanded by a Brigadier. The battalions normally rotate around one in training and one on operations in
Kashmir/Afghanistan with a third on stand-by. 2 companies are normally deployed on the Siachen Glacier. 

[specialoperations.com says two battalions rotate through Cherat and one is divided between "the border" and protection of vital installations like the Tarabela Dam and Pakistan nuclear weapons establishments. Mr. Bajwa's information is far more accurate. Given the situation between India and Pakistan, we can understand why Pakistan sources would prefer to pass lightly over the SSG's combat deployments.]

The SSG also provide Close Protection Teams for the security of the President, Prime Minister, COAS, and nowadays the Chief Executive.

Recruitment and Training
Personnel for the SSG are volunteers from all arms and services and normally serve a tenure of 3-5 years before going back to their parent units. Their training centers are at Attock and Cherat. The SSG&#8217;s badge is a commando dagger flanked on either side by a bolt of lightning

The SSG does not have any class composition and all classes are eligible to join. The training is rigorous and the accent is on training soldiers as individual commandos capable of taking independent initiative. The &#8216;buddy&#8217; system beloved of the US Special Forces and the SAS is encouraged. 

The SSG regularly sends students to the US for special warfare and airborne training. The training programs in China are not so well documented however given the closed nature of its society and obsession with security. For specialized training specific to Siachen a Snow and High Altitude Warfare School has been established at Khappalu.

Uniforms
Combat uniforms were previously the standard Khaki of the Pakistan Army. From 1972, a new disruptive pattern combat tunic was introduced for the entire Army. This was phased out beginning 1979. The SSG uses the US woodland pattern camouflage combat dress. The ubiquitous symbol of parachute forces, the maroon beret, is worn with a cap badge in a light blue square.
[Other uniform details can be found on the specialoperations.com website]

Doctrine
The operational doctrine of the SSG is a mixture of US, Chinese and British SAS tactics and philosophy with a great deal of experience from the Afghan War, Siachen, Kashmir and Kargil thrown in. They are formidable opponents and easily rank as one of the finest special forces in the world. The SSG cut quite a dash at the recent the ceremonial Pakistan Day parade in Islamabad marching past the saluting dais in the double time; a very tiring procedure.

Overseas Operations
The Pakistan Government has also used the SSG as an instrument of influence. The SSG has a presence in a large number of Arab/Muslim countries through its training/advisory teams. Basic training in CI Ops and VIP security is imparted to the armed forces of these countries. In 1986, alarmingly for India, the SSG began large-scale training of the Sri Lankan Commando Regiment. The SSG is also involved in covert operations in Afghanistan and India. Air Marshals have been provided for Pakistan International Airlines.


Organization

Group HQ 
Commander: Brigadier 
Staff: 5 officers 

Three GSO 2s - Operations, Intelligence and Training DAA & QMG &#8211; Logistics and Personnel assisted by a Staff Captain (A/Q). An Establishment Officer and an Administration Officer (Finance) (presumably to finance covert operations in other countries) 

A HQ company services the Group HQ. 

Paratroopers Training School (Peshawar) 
3 Officers 
23 JCOs (Junior Commissioned Officers are the same as Non Commissioned Officers.) 
54 ORs 

Akbar Company (Frogman Unit) 
4 Officers 
4 JCOs 
60 ORs 

Musa Company (Anti-Terrorist Unit, always on operational stand-by. 
3 Officers 
4 JCOs 
90 ORs 

Iqbal Company (Signals Unit) 
3 Officers 
3 JCOs 
100 ORs. 

Commando Battalion 

Battalion HQ 
CO 
2IC 
Adjutant 
Intelligence Officer 
HQ and clerical staff 

HQ Company (1 Officer, 1 JCO, 59 Ors) 

Signal Platoon 
MT Platoon 
Administrative Platoon 

Each battalion has 4 - 5 Commando Companies

Company HQ 
1 Officer 
1 JCO 
21 ORs 

3 Platoons, each: 
1 Officer 
1 JCO 
43 Ors 
Platoons are large because they conduct independent operations 

Company supporting weapons 
18 x MGs 
3 x RPG-7s 
3 x 60mm Mors 
1 x 106mm RCL 


Back to Main
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
All content © 2002 Ravi Rikhye.

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## fatman17

*China hails its "Sirius" Special Forces' training with Pakistan*

Northwest China's special operation force "Sirius"


A special operation force in northwest China wearing the wolf-head badge on one arm is acclaimed as &#8220;Sirius&#8221; for being smart, courageous, indomitable and combat-effective.

Under the leadership of the regiment commander Wang Junxian, the troop unit has explored into new areas and created a series of miracles.

Outstanding achievements on foreign land

An anti-terrorism live-ammunition drill was officially launched by special operation forces from China and Pakistan in the Mangla Training Base of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan on November 24, 2011.

After a roar, two large-scale transport aircraft from Kashgar of China flew across the Khan River surrounded by hills and &#8220;spit&#8221; out 46 white parachute flowers from the 1,000-meter-high sky.

It was an airdrop conducted on a foreign land without weather forecast, ground information and landing guide. It was a makeshift measure of projecting troops during wartime.

When preparing for landing, the servicemen of the special operation force put the three points of foot, knee and ankle together and steered the parachute skillfully. After a quick assembly, the servicemen immediately conducted a peripheral blockade of the terrorists&#8217; camp.

Looking at the well-trained Chinese special operation force, General Farouk, commander of the Pakistani special operation force, had a smile on his face and stuck up his thumb to Wang Junxian, commander of a regiment of the Xinjiang Military Area Command (MAC) of the Chinese People&#8217;s Liberation Army (PLA) who was standing next to him.

Farouk is a Pakistani counter-terrorism expert in mountainous regions who used to lead the No. 22 special operation brigade, the trump card of the Pakistani military, to participate in various actual anti-terrorism actions.

Farouk heard a lot of talking about the extraordinary skills of the Chinese special operation force at the very beginning of the joint training, acclaiming them as being adept in free fighting, emergency shooting, demolition blasting and climbing.

What really astonished Farouk was the shooting ability demonstrated by the Chinese soldiers.

On the very day of the shooting, 8 soldiers of the Chinese special operation force attacked from 150 meters away. Within 90 seconds after repeated changing of positions, they accurately destroyed 72 targets.

The drill went on.

The Chinese and Pakistani joint force began to impose a clean-up operation on terrorists. The Chinese special operation force acted swiftly and collaboratively and approached the &#8220;enemies&#8221; quietly, which reminded Farouk of the cunning, smart, indomitable and courageous wolf.

Gazing at the Chinese special operation force running swiftly in the smoke, Farouk suddenly understood the reason why every soldier of the northwest China&#8217;s special operation force is wearing an armband engraved with a wolf head and why the special operation force is acclaimed as &#8220;Sirius&#8221;.

Forging &#8216;Sirius&#8217; troop unit

Wang Junxian, commander of &#8220;Sirius&#8221;, is a legendary figure in the Chinese special operation force. He can fly a delta-winged aircraft high into the sky, jump with 6 types of parachutes, drive all sorts of vehicles skillfully, be good at firing with dozens of light and heavy arms, swim different strokes with weapons, and dive in the lake on plateau. He is the free fighting champion of 55 kg class and the sharpshooter in the theater to which he belongs&#8230;

Wang Junxian&#8217;s secret in training soldiers is boiled down to one word &#8220;ruthlessness&#8221;. He always leads the soldiers to the riskiest field and trains them with the most arduous training programs. As a result, everyone in the regiment can make a parachute jump, fire live ammunition, conduct demolition blasting and master at least one set of special skills.

The higher authorities require the winter survival training be restricted to less than three days. However, Wang Junxian extended it to ten days during which his officers and men must bear a heavy load of 35 kg to march on a mountain road for 80 kilometers. During the cold night when temperature dropped to -20, his officers and men would only pitch a one-man tent and sleep in the open snowfield.

For 10 days in a row, his officer and men only had 3 hot meals. In order to appease their hunger, they plucked the seeds of camel thorns to cook congee and used shovel to fry some steamed buns. Even so, Wang Junxian still ordered them to conduct training on such subjects as forced march for 40 kilometers during night at the edge of a narrow and rough cliff.

In recent years, Wang Junxian extended the special training field to the &#8220;Forbidden Zone for Life&#8221;. At an elevation of 5,200 meters on the Kunlun Mountains, Wang Junxian led officers and men to live in an earth pit and eat wild vegetables for over 100 days in order to test the tactical and technical parameters of more than 100 pieces of light and heavy weaponry in the plateau region.

Leading the special operation force onto the 4,200-meter-high snow-capped mountain last summer, Wang Junxian took the lead to dive into the bone-chilling plateau lake and parachute on the plateau, and successfully organized the flight training of the tactical formation of delta-winged aircraft, setting three records in the history of the Chinese special operation force.

In addition, Wang Junxian created new application modes of weaponry and equipment. He was the first to combine the use of commanding software with the Beidou navigation positioning system, to combine the aerial photography with the delta-winged aircraft in order to conduct dynamic transfer and command of long-range ground targets, and to integrate parachuting at a low altitude of 300 meters with wing-parachute high-altitude long-range airdrop to achieve secret penetration to different places.

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## MrShabi2010

Wow a guest posted this thread?


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## Kompromat



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## Jango

How is Musa company Anti-terrorist? Isn't it a frogman company and Zarrar the ATU?


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## mughaljee

fellows, 

I red somewhere, 
the our SSG also use arrow & bow ?
is this the part of training ?


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## Zarvan



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## Nishan_101

F.O.X said:


> One of the Good pictures of SSG, showing actual combat formation.



POF should come up with their own class of guns and rifles like of AK-47s class...


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## Lone Ranger

they goes there's where dead fears to go!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Light Commando Battalion:
*
















 @Aeronaut @Rafi

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## Kompromat

LCB-Looks promising bro!

@DESERT FIGHTER @Rafi @F.O.X

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## Kompromat



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## Zarvan

@Aeronaut any idea how many off them would be in total and they look close to Saudi special forces what do you think guys @Yzd Khalifa @Arabian Legend


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## Rafi

LCB is part of the new doctrine for Pak Land Forces.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


>





Aeronaut said:


> I stand corrected, however they wear a similar camouflage so its confusing - SEALs wear black gear most of the time. The guy on the far right with sun glasses is from the Special Forces. Then you have the Chief of Naval Staff wearing the same uniform. Few folks behind may well be from the Marines.



Yup... these guys are marines... the maroon beret is SSGN...

SSGN wear woodland camo just like the SSG...although the badges,ranks,insignia,patches etc are different..







*Pic from Naseem Al Bahr X ex... between Pak n Saudi naval forces.*

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## gangsta_rap

Haha them LCB folks look so badass!! Hope we get to see a vid or something soon.

The army's certainly come a long way in the past 10 years

Haha them LCB folks look so badass!! Hope we get to see a vid or something soon.

The army's certainly come a long way in the past 10 years

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## Rafi

GIANTsasquatch said:


> Haha them LCB folks look so badass!! Hope we get to see a vid or something soon.
> 
> The army's certainly come a long way in the past 10 years
> 
> Haha them LCB folks look so badass!! Hope we get to see a vid or something soon.
> 
> The army's certainly come a long way in the past 10 years



The WOT has defn down side, but the only good thing to come from it, is that the forces are on par with the best in the world in terms of training and experience.

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## Rafi

SSG

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## Rafi



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Rafi said:


> SSG






[/quote]

Already posted (pretty old pics) bhai..

For you (probably old but not posted before)..








Some dude posted it on PDF FB page.

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## Amaa'n

F.O.X said:


> One of the Good pictures of SSG, showing actual combat formation.


there is nothing wrong with the picture I see- infact its a one classic pic, but looking from another perspective - 2 x solider carrying 7.62 x 39 rounds - its good they can share the mags, pick the ammo from dead militants- but why the third one is carring M-4 5.56????


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## Amaa'n

LCB will ease off some burden on SSG -
and on same platform - Some dedicated recon units should be set up too - or that part of LCB???


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## Amaa'n

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Some dude posted it on PDF FB page.


@Aeronaut I dedicate this photo of our fellow from (SSW???) to you , as you always have wanted better gun for our special forces :p

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## F.O.X

balixd said:


> there is nothing wrong with the picture I see- infact its a one classic pic, but looking from another perspective - 2 x solider carrying 7.62 x 39 rounds - its good they can share the mags, pick the ammo from dead militants- but why the third one is carring M-4 5.56????



5.56 is usually for wounding .. sometimes diverse ammo is needed in a mission .. say if you want a target alive & he tries to flee .. shoot him with 7.62 & he probably wont survive .

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## Kompromat

@balixd Yes this Milspec FN 2000 chambered in 5.56mm in a bullpop design is awesome. I'd rank it better than a Tavor and lower StyerAug A3.

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## Informant

FN 2000 is overrated. For 5.56 chambered nothing beats m4 in versatility and availability of add-ons.


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## Kompromat

Informant said:


> FN 2000 is overrated. For 5.56 chambered nothing beats m4 in versatility and availability of add-ons.



Please, explain how exactly the FN2000 is 'overrated'?

There is nothing much to compare between the M4 and the FN as the later is a bullpop with a full length barrel. 

M4s are good looking, hard to maintain and unreliable in certain aspects of shooting. The best AR-15 variant built to date is hk-416 not the M4.


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## F.O.X



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## DESERT FIGHTER

F.O.X said:


>



I think you probably know that hes not SSG but Army right.. looking at the uniform and the badges...

Anyways the only thing hes missing are the protective pads... and the the camel pack.. 

P.S: Bro, post this in the Pak military thread..


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## F.O.X

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I think you probably know that hes not SSG but Army right.. looking at the uniform and the badges...
> 
> Anyways the only thing hes missing are the protective pads... and the the camel pack..
> 
> P.S: Bro, post this in the Pak military thread..


I know he is Not SSG .. he is most likely form LCB .


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## DESERT FIGHTER

F.O.X said:


> I know he is Not SSG .. he is most likely form LCB .



I dnt know.. the equipment being given to the army these days is quiet nice.. could even be a regular infantarian..


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## F.O.X

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I dnt know.. the equipment being given to the army these days is quiet nice.. could even be a regular infantarian..


Regular Infantry does not carry the Side Glock . & this is not their Camo .


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## DESERT FIGHTER

F.O.X said:


> Regular Infantry does not carry the Side Glock . & this is not their Camo .



Thts the new uniform..standard army uniform.... as for side arms.. not a big deal.. i think officers are issued handguns.. even soldiers can carry side arms.. not much of a fuzz... When my father was commanding an FC reg .. in baluchistan.. heck even the HQ sent us over a 100 viking handguns.. did you think all of them were given to commissioned officers?


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## Informant

Aeronaut said:


> Please, explain how exactly the FN2000 is 'overrated'?
> 
> There is nothing much to compare between the M4 and the FN as the later is a bullpop with a full length barrel.
> 
> M4s are good looking, hard to maintain and unreliable in certain aspects of shooting. The best AR-15 variant built to date is hk-416 not the M4.



I actually have held an FN 2000. That thing is bulky in size. Not at all practical many aspects. They are meant for very close-to-body handling. handling in tight spaces. Bullpup has its certain advantages but is useless when it comes to maneuver warfare. M4 is not as prone to jamming and technical as you make it out, most of it depends on how well you keep your gun clean. The latest M4 variations are most used by special forces for a reason. FN2000 has a niche in a very small warfare segment. I think the US is thinking of switching to XM8 rifles with complete ability so switch barrels to make it a 7.62x50 or change it into a SAW compatible barrel for long sustained bursts.

My argument wasn't much about bullpup vs standard rifle. Bullpup are expensive and the advantages they provide arent big enough for armed forces to switch infantry to it. Certain armies do, then again it depends on their contact doctrine.

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## F.O.X

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Thts the new uniform..standard army uniform.... as for side arms.. not a big deal.. i think officers are issued handguns.. even soldiers can carry side arms.. not much of a fuzz... When my father was commanding an FC reg .. in baluchistan.. heck even the HQ sent us over a 100 viking handguns.. did you think all of them were given to commissioned officers?


Officers Yes .. but this is actual combat gear .. and if you see closely you wills see that AK is also modified .. the Helmet has the NVG attachment .. so most probably one of the LCB ... and this camo is different ( a little ) from the new Pak Army Digi Cam . 

But then again I can be wrong .


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## DESERT FIGHTER

F.O.X said:


> Officers Yes .. but this is actual combat gear .. and if you see closely you wills see that AK is also modified .. the Helmet has the NVG attachment .. so most probably one of the LCB ... and this camo is different ( a little ) from the new Pak Army Digi Cam .
> 
> But then again I can be wrong .



Modified AKs are used even by FC.. visit Pak Military thread.. you will see even regulars using them.. heck even soldiers on election duty worn the same gear..new BPJs,guards,modified AKs,gloves etc.... same goes for NVGs.. even this pic seems to be from the frontline.. if you view it carefully.. looks like an abandoned govt building in FATA.. .. all these goodies are now being used by army.. even camel backs,protective guards/pads,webbings etc.. its 2013 for God sakes man.. we gotta keep up with time..

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## Kompromat

Informant said:


> I actually have held an FN 2000. That thing is bulky in size. Not at all practical many aspects. They are meant for very close-to-body handling. handling in tight spaces. Bullpup has its certain advantages but is useless when it comes to maneuver warfare. M4 is not as prone to jamming and technical as you make it out, most of it depends on how well you keep your gun clean. The latest M4 variations are most used by special forces for a reason. FN2000 has a niche in a very small warfare segment. I think the US is thinking of switching to XM8 rifles with complete ability so switch barrels to make it a 7.62x50 or change it into a SAW compatible barrel for long sustained bursts.
> 
> My argument wasn't much about bullpup vs standard rifle. Bullpup are expensive and the advantages they provide arent big enough for armed forces to switch infantry to it. Certain armies do, then again it depends on their contact doctrine.



Its a long futile debate on if bullpops outweigh the standard rifles in handling or not. M4 is not something i like very much, XM-8 has been abandoned for FN-scar


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## Zarvan

F.O.X said:


>


This is hell off A uniform sir full USA style but we need to go for better guns @DESERT FIGHTER is he from LCB and @Aeronaut


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## DESERT FIGHTER

F.O.X said:


>





Zarvan said:


> This is hell off A uniform sir full USA style but we need to go for better guns @DESERT FIGHTER is he from LCB and @Aeronaut



No ... regular army.. not LCB.


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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> No ... regular army.. not LCB.


That is good so now other than SSG all soldiers would be given these and this is different from fist camoflauge which came to replace khaki uniform


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> That is good so now other than SSG all soldiers would be given these and this is different from fist camoflauge which came to replace khaki uniform



Its the new camo introduced few month ago.

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## Amaa'n

F.O.X said:


> Regular Infantry does not carry the Side Glock . & this is not their Camo .


its been almost a year now since Frontline troops had been issued side arms, personally fired a Sarsilmaz B6 issued to CO in wana back in january, so no big deal with the glock----

@DESERT FIGHTER also note the patch on his right shoulder - hes a frogman......
LCB or Infantry - that is not even the question


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## Amaa'n

Informant said:


> I actually have held an FN 2000. That thing is bulky in size. Not at all practical many aspects. They are meant for very close-to-body handling. handling in tight spaces. Bullpup has its certain advantages but is useless when it comes to maneuver warfare. M4 is not as prone to jamming and technical as you make it out, most of it depends on how well you keep your gun clean. The latest M4 variations are most used by special forces for a reason. FN2000 has a niche in a very small warfare segment. I think the US is thinking of switching to XM8 rifles with complete ability so switch barrels to make it a 7.62x50 or change it into a SAW compatible barrel for long sustained bursts.
> 
> My argument wasn't much about bullpup vs standard rifle. Bullpup are expensive and the advantages they provide arent big enough for armed forces to switch infantry to it. Certain armies do, then again it depends on their contact doctrine.


You have asked the question and answered it yourself, bullpup designs are mostly for urban warfare, but if we go by that rule than we does L85a stands???
keeping this discussion aside XM8 project was abandoned, SCAR-L & H is the future, but even today US Socom is sticking with CM901.....and if i remember correctly US Socom tested out and deployed some SABRs in the field too??


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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> its been almost a year now since Frontline troops had been issued side arms, personally fired a Sarsilmaz B6 issued to CO in wana back in january, so no big deal with the glock----
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER also note the patch on his right shoulder - hes a frogman......
> LCB or Infantry - that is not even the question


Sir what is a frogman ? and according to your information will this latest Uniform would be given to all soldiers or not


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## Amaa'n

Zarvan said:


> Sir what is a frogman ? and according to your information will this latest Uniform would be given to all soldiers or not


those who had underwater combat training, including scuba diving, one necessarily does not need to be in SSG or Navy to go through such training - just as Moutain warfare -.....talking about the uniform then this new (so called semi digital) has already been issued to many infantry and is available at CSD......

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## DESERT FIGHTER

balixd said:


> its been almost a year now since Frontline troops had been issued side arms, personally fired a Sarsilmaz B6 issued to CO in wana back in january, so no big deal with the glock----
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER also note the patch on his right shoulder - hes a frogman......
> LCB or Infantry - that is not even the question



Yeah.. my old man also did it along with other courses..


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## Kompromat

Now that is some Awesome looking gear

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## Amaa'n

Aeronaut said:


> Now that is some Awesome looking gear


and you know the best thing i love about this gear? the modular vest, soliders can wear the mag pouches and stuff and it will be like a part of body rather than the belt with straps ----


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## Amaa'n

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yeah.. my old man also did it along with other courses..


a bit wierd but saw a Signal's officer with frogman's patch -----


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## DESERT FIGHTER

balixd said:


> a bit wierd but saw a Signal's officer with frogman's patch -----



Nothin unimaginable abt it dude.. lol ..


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## Amaa'n

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nothin unimaginable abt it dude.. lol ..


why on earth would he need frogman's training - he ain't going to set up systems under water :p


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## Informant

balixd said:


> You have asked the question and answered it yourself, bullpup designs are mostly for urban warfare, but if we go by that rule than we does L85a stands???
> keeping this discussion aside XM8 project was abandoned, SCAR-L & H is the future, but even today US Socom is sticking with CM901.....and if i remember correctly US Socom tested out and deployed some SABRs in the field too??



Yeah just dusted up my info regarding XM8. Bullpup is overrated IMHO and L85 was a nightmare for the Royal forces. It wasnt until version 2 they got a decent weapon in their hands. CM901 and SABRs are all modular in nature and are being pushed further. Switch the barrel and striker mech and you got a different caliber weapon. This is the new way, bullpups are of no advantage over standard rifles use in maneuver warfare.

M4 derivates are all sexy as hell.


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## F.O.X

Dont know if it is posted before

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## DESERT FIGHTER

balixd said:


> why on earth would he need frogman's training - he ain't going to set up systems under water :p



Probably coz its fun...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

@Aeronaut 


The video with SSGN operator wearing MICH:

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## kurup

F.O.X said:


> Dont know if it is posted before



Why are they wearing knee-pad only on one leg ???


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## me_itsme

kurup said:


> Why are they wearing knee-pad only on one leg ???



Its a common practice as far as I know among SFs. As you can see the knee pads are on the right leg. The reason being is while shooting in a kneeling position the right leg's knee makes contact with the ground and not the left leg. 

As far as I know this is the reason but I may be wrong.

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## Rafi

Our Special Forces are looking cool.


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## fizza iqbal

Ssg1956 said:


> Hi guys, I am new at this forum and I am a big fan of Pakistan SSGs. I open this thread for all types of photo collection of SSGs, SSWs and SSNGs. Also VVIP security guards. Please don't upload photos of regular armies, Elite police force such as "No Fear" etc plus not trolling and comparisons.....


thax for this act,i am also a big fan

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## fizza iqbal

i love my army...love ssg commandos...hats off

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## DESERT FIGHTER

balixd said:


> its been almost a year now since Frontline troops had been issued side arms, personally fired a Sarsilmaz B6 issued to CO in wana back in january, so no big deal with the glock----
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER also note the patch on his right shoulder - hes a frogman......
> LCB or Infantry - that is not even the question



Honestly... i didnt say tht out loud coz FOX is a "researcher" etc.. thought tht would be rude... so tried to ... you know.. otherwise nothing surprising in his uniform..


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## DESERT FIGHTER

*During Peochar assault in swat 2008:*





*Pretty old pic :*

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Rafi

more pics needed, resistance is futile.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

> Originally posted by Side-Winder

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## DESERT FIGHTER

SSGN operators wearing FAST helmet!:

https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&...px4iH8y8p887g046kqv4QRg&bvm=bv.56643336,d.Yms

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## DESERT FIGHTER

FAST helmets etc in service ...

The whole video:








Some "ancients" low quality pics from the PN website... shame they dnt update their site...:

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## F.O.X

Zarvan said:


>


Not Ours ., i don't think this man is even a soldier , this is probably an air-soft kit .

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## Zarvan

F.O.X said:


> Not Ours ., i don't think this man is even a soldier , this is probably an air-soft kit .


Sir they are most probably ours by the way are you in Army


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## Amaa'n

@Zarvan - that guy doesnt look like our Solider to me.


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## F.O.X

Zarvan said:


> Sir they are most probably ours by the way are you in Army


We Dont Use G36 ..

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## RescueRanger

F.O.X said:


> Not Ours ., i don't think this man is even a soldier , this is probably an air-soft kit .



Agree, equipment is too clean for him to be a real solider . Look at that spotless helmet, not even a scratch on it. His quartermaster must love him.

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## Armstrong

RescueRanger said:


> Agree, equipment is too clean for him to be a real solider . Look at that spotless helmet, not even a scratch on it. His quartermaster must love him.



Sir yeh Alpacino bhi kiyaa Niazi thaaa ?

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## RescueRanger

Armstrong said:


> Sir yeh Alpacino bhi kiyaa Niazi thaaa ?



Nahi yara, long story but Alpacino in this pic looks just like my late chacha when he was young, i mean ditto! Plus, i just loved his portrayal of Frank Serpico, one of the most heroic Police Officers in US history.

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## Armstrong

RescueRanger said:


> Nahi yara, long story but Alpacino in this pic looks just like my late chacha when he was young, i mean ditto! Plus, i just loved his portrayal of Frank Serpico, one of the most heroic Police Officers in US history.



Frank Serpico - Which movie is this ?  

I've only seen the Godfather Trilogy, Devil's Advocate & some clips from another movie of his where he talked about 'saying hello to his little friend' !

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## RescueRanger

Armstrong said:


> Frank Serpico - Which movie is this ?
> 
> I've only seen the Godfather Trilogy, Devil's Advocate & some clips from another movie of his where he talked about 'saying hello to his little friend' !



Hehe, he is a very talented actor indeed. This film is based on the real life story of Police Officer Frank Serpico. 

Here is a trailer of the film:





I really recommend you watch it.

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## ZohaibMumtaz

Abingdonboy said:


> By whom exactly???


search your self on google you will find and also you can search it on wiki answer


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## Zarvan

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=543634545720866




Captain Najam Riaz Raja Shaheed
@Yzd Khalifa @Arabian Legend @BLACKEAGLE @al-Hasani @FARSOLDIER @Aeronaut @jaibi

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=543634545720866
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Captain Najam Riaz Raja Shaheed
> @Yzd Khalifa @Arabian Legend @BLACKEAGLE @al-Hasani @FARSOLDIER @Aeronaut @jaibi




I came to know abt him from his frnd.. another SSG operator who served in swat... !

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I came to know abt him from his frnd.. another SSG operator who served in swat... !


Can you tell what they were saying


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## Kompromat

Zarvan said:


> Can you tell what they were saying



نعرہ جانباز -

ہم ہیں - جانباز -ہم ہیں جانباز ​


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## Tehmasib

mughaljee said:


> fellows,
> 
> I red somewhere,
> the our SSG also use arrow & bow ?
> is this the part of training ?


 
very simple a big YES

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## Kompromat



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## blain2

nuclearpak said:


> How is Musa company Anti-terrorist? Isn't it a frogman company and Zarrar the ATU?


You are right. Its not. When the ATT requirement was rolled up to the GHQ around 1984, the only company available to take this role on was the "M" Company which was till then a combat diver unit. After some shuffling around, its role was converted to a CT tasking. Eventually it was reverted back to Combat Diver role around the late 90s and the Zarrar Company was given the ATT role.

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## krash



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## blain2

me_itsme said:


> Its a common practice as far as I know among SFs. As you can see the knee pads are on the right leg. The reason being is while shooting in a kneeling position the right leg's knee makes contact with the ground and not the left leg.
> 
> As far as I know this is the reason but I may be wrong.


On range, its the functional thing to do given that most kneel with the right knee. In the field, specially in mountainous terrain, both pads help. Its just a matter of personal preference.

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## me_itsme

blain2 said:


> On range, its the functional thing to do given that most kneel with the right knee. In the field, specially in mountainous terrain, both pads help. Its just a matter of personal preference.


Yeah, also I saw in an earlier post that SSG uses FAST helmets. Could you clarify that? Any pics would be appreciated.


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## Side-Winder



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## DESERT FIGHTER

me_itsme said:


> Yeah, also I saw in an earlier post that SSG uses FAST helmets. Could you clarify that? Any pics would be appreciated.

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## Informant

I seriously see a lack of fitting body armour. Our armor in't upto standards and barely covers the upper torso as is. Does anyone know the stopping ability it has?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> I seriously see a lack of fitting body armour. Our armor in't upto standards and barely covers the upper torso as is. Does anyone know the stopping ability it has?



Thank u for ur information.. informant..

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## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Thank u for ur information.. informant..



Are you going to be a smart *** and deliver such quips or do you have an answer.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> Are you going to be a smart *** and deliver such quips or do you have an answer.



Okay..

See the crapy body armor...

*SSGN Demo to a tv channel:
*


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## hkdas

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Okay..
> 
> See the crapy body armor...
> 
> *SSGN Demo to a tv channel:
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 12066
> View attachment 12067
> View attachment 12068
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 12071


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## DESERT FIGHTER

hkdas said:


>


\

Already posted... i just took a few screen shots for him...


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## hkdas

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> \
> 
> Already posted... i just took a few screen shots for him...


i know that.. i just re-post it for others..


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## Assault Rifle

One thing I have noticed is that Pakistani SF's make less of an effort of concealing their personal identities than Indian SF's(especially MARCOS).


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Assault Rifle said:


> One thing I have noticed is that Pakistani SF's make less of an effort of concealing their personal identities than Indian SF's(especially MARCOS).



Most of these pics are either from FB or demos ... and almost all of them are "OLD"...


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## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Okay..
> 
> See the crapy body armor...
> 
> *SSGN Demo to a tv channel*



I know the special forces gets equipment/training from the best, plus they have the training and resources not enjoyed by the rest, the ballistic carriers you just showed has my complete satisfaction. I am referring to the regular infantry. Those armours arent upto par. Their plate is not in proportionate size to a male torso. I understand the main purpose of a body armour is keep the entry and exit wound/hole small. But i have first hand info about the armour failing on smaller calibers aswell. That was my concern, please we still need better gear for chest harnesses for these SSG guys, somthing is always off about it. Flimsy, loose, misaligned. Looks also deserve some importance.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> I know the special forces gets equipment/training from the best, plus they have the training and resources not enjoyed by the rest, the ballistic carriers you just showed has my complete satisfaction. I am referring to the regular infantry. Those armours arent on par. Their plate is not in proportionate size to a male torso. I understand the main purpose of a body armour is keep the entry and exit wound/hole small. But i have first hand info about the armour failing on smaller calibers aswell. That was my concern, please we still need better gear for chest harnesses for these SSG guys, somthing is always off about it. Flimsy, loose, misaligned. Looks also deserve some importance.






Kindly visit the Pak military multipedia thread... things are changing... as for chest harnesses they are already in service (standard issue)... even with the regular infantry... but yes.... room for improvement is always there ... although with our small defence budget... 

(Old camo)






you can see the SFs using their own version in the video or the screen shots i posted.


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## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Kindly visit the Pak military multipedia thread... things are changing... as for chest harnesses they are already in service (standard issue)... even with the regular infantry... but yes.... room for improvement is always there ... although with our small defence budget...



I know even the infantry is getting harnesses but they are 2nd rate mate, barely enough for ammunition and hanging lose. I dont believe this is a budget issues, merely Quality Assurance and Design. I guess baby steps.

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## Side-Winder



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## Soldier-X

secial Operation Wing (SOW) Commando of FC

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## DESERT FIGHTER

cadet zain said:


> secial Operation Wing (SOW) Commando of FC
> 
> View attachment 12807


*Nope.. a regular FC soldier..*


Here is a SOW guy:

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Training the Saudis:
*

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## Inception-06

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 12819
> View attachment 12820
> 
> 
> 
> *Pretty old pic ... Training the Saudis:
> *
> View attachment 12821



What are we getting, when we train the saudis ? Do they train also our Soldiers ?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ulla said:


> What are we getting, when we train the saudis ? Do they train also our Soldiers ?



Lmao... Saudis training us? we also run military training institutes in KSA and several other countries... apart from training them at home in our institutes.

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## Inception-06

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lmao... Saudis training us? we also run military training institutes in KSA and several other countries... apart from training them at home in our institutes.



You did not get the point, what are we get form the Saudis, when our military personal is spending the time to train them ?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> I know even the infantry is getting harnesses but they are 2nd rate mate, barely enough for ammunition and hanging lose. I dont believe this is a budget issues, merely Quality Assurance and Design. I guess baby steps.



The older ones have been replaced...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ulla said:


> You did not get the point, what are we get form the Saudis, when our military personal is spending the time to train them ?



*Diplomatic relations...* financial benefits to the soldiers...

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## Thəorətic Muslim

Ulla said:


> You did not get the point, what are we get form the Saudis, when our military personal is spending the time to train them ?



Same thing America gets when they train the Military of other Nations. 

US Trains foreign militarys they get:

US weapon sales
Regional stability, who's going to mess with a US ally?
US interests 
Enhancing understanding
Pomoting friendship, that Maj. coming to West Point in 10-14 is going to be some senior official at the Defense Ministry of his country
Win-Win, soldiers get trained here Foreign win, US gets influence there.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

cadet zain said:


> View attachment 12830



Hes not SSG... probably not even a soldier...


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Just watched Green Barets training (Entrance course) pretty intense
Just a pre "acceptance" course was more challenging then any normal Military Entrance course

Never seen fully fit men puke and faint and give up in first 3 hours of start

Wonder how the SSG training compares in comparison


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## razgriz19

Can anyone tell me why there is a Bangladeshi flag, and others on the table?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Just watched Green Barets training (Entrance course) pretty intense
> Just a pre "acceptance" course was more challenging then any normal Military Entrance course
> 
> Never seen fully fit men puke and faint and give up in first 3 hours of start
> 
> *Wonder how the SSG training compares in comparison*


*
Volunteers from all over the army apply but two-thirds are rejected during the initial selection phase, and one-third of the selected fall out during the training phase due to lack of physical and mental resilience displayed during the training.

Trainees have to undergo forced marches in which they have to cross 36 miles of rugged terrain in nine hours while wearing full combat loads.

Typical exercises involve round-the-clock movement for five days and nights without sleep, while carrying only two days worth of food and water.

Once that runs out, they must live off the land and the few villages in the area are kept under surveillance by the trainers.

If captured, they are thrown into the dungeons of Attock Fort and subjected to a gruelling process of interrogation. Among those who break down during the five-day exercise, the common refrain is “SSG dozakh hai” (SSG is hell).

Those who finally make it, earn the distinction of wearing the maroon beret and the coveted SSG badge on their chest.*

From an old article written by a former S.S.G operator.
\

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Volunteers from all over the army apply but two-thirds are rejected during the initial selection phase, and one-third of the selected fall out during the training phase due to lack of physical and mental resilience displayed during the training.
> 
> Trainees have to undergo forced marches in which they have to cross 36 miles of rugged terrain in nine hours while wearing full combat loads.
> 
> Typical exercises involve round-the-clock movement for five days and nights without sleep, while carrying only two days worth of food and water.
> 
> Once that runs out, they must live off the land and the few villages in the area are kept under surveillance by the trainers.
> 
> If captured, they are thrown into the dungeons of Attock Fort and subjected to a gruelling process of interrogation. Among those who break down during the five-day exercise, the common refrain is “SSG dozakh hai” (SSG is hell).
> 
> Those who finally make it, earn the distinction of wearing the maroon beret and the coveted SSG badge on their chest.*
> 
> From an old article written by a former S.S.G operator.
> \



In the Green Baret Training documentary (Only pre screening)

US green Baret went thru in *"Pre Screening" training *

2 Weeks course (14 days), which involved

Physical fitness training , Lifting heavy objects , repetitively for 2-3 hours then rolling around countless times to disorient. Very brutal introduction to reality
In the movie they lifted a tree log , 10 feet long by group of soldiers above their heads and then shoulder to shoulder, one guys ends up busting his shoulder and gets eliminated , few soldiers get dizzy after the process or heavy lifts and then doing roll overs and normal drills repeatedly for hours

Obstacle training (Testing for fear against height, tight places etc). They are forced to climb up on obstacles with no safety protectors which causes few soldiers to quiet as they could not cope with the height and no safety line. Fatigue also messes with their heads

Then constant marches (Hikes) 6 miles with 50 pound bags on their shoulders.

> Sudden requirement changes to forget about day time hike and do a mission

Pitch Dark night , flag / course finding missions , can't turn on lights , can't step on road , their Trainers monitored their actions using thermal / heat sensors. Anyone caught cheating like taking a nap or sleeping or stepping on roads gets disqualified. They had to navigate in dark night , no lights and with no moon in sky

Fews guys got busted cheating the system turning off their high tech gadgets and taking a nap or some had the head lights to see their area , which got picked up by thermal / night vision camera instructors were using

Then Team based hikes , groups given task to transport a heavy object with given , resources at hand , come up with solution and move the item to desired spot (Heavy Object) 12-13 people need to carry it (6 Miles distance) . If your team works together and you show good decision making you could make a device to transport things easily (less effort) vs carrying object 1 by 1 by hand.
(They were given wheels to aid them carry) - Time duration limit, the tires / wheels constantly fall off due to sand and terrain if you did not design your solution correctly

Next day , they repeated the stuff , only now ... they did not had any wheels literally lifting or carrying the object on shoulders (12-14 people at time) taking turns. Again 6 miles new course. The road is full of deep sand and makes it hard to move

Overall in their trainings people were puking , bleeding , some had mental breakdowns , some injured their ankles one-two busted their knees or hips carrying the heavy load object in hike in team missions. (Which disqualified them immediately). And these were generally your fit soldiers not out of shape joe who could not take the training objectives or intensity

Then more surprise night hikes

Out of 256 entrants they reduced the field 120-130 people were eliminated or quit

The final 1/3 were then given critique by the Trainer and they also removed few entrants and only after that they approved the remaining ones to start their Green Baret Training

The documentary did not cover , what Training the "Selected" folks get which they need to pass in order to be called Green Baret, but the Pre Screen was quite intense physical and emotional test

They had few rules , you get injured you are out and you cannot hide an injury in order to continue in course training and you must follow orders to dot

Few guys were really happy they finished he course and said on camera they are certainly gonna be selected , eventually quite a few of them don't get elected
even after finishing the 2 weeks course

At the end they announced from next year, Military will increase the duration of the pre screen course to 3 weeks

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## DESERT FIGHTER

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> In the Green Baret Training documentary (Only pre screening)
> 
> US green Baret went thru in *"Pre Screening" training *
> 
> 2 Weeks course (14 days), which involved
> 
> Physical fitness training , Lifting heavy objects , repetitively for 2-3 hours then rolling around countless times to disorient. Very brutal introduction to reality
> In the movie they lifted a tree log , 10 feet long by group of soldiers above their heads and then shoulder to shoulder, one guys ends up busting his shoulder and gets eliminated , few soldiers get dizzy after the process or heavy lifts and then doing roll overs and normal drills repeatedly for hours
> 
> Obstacle training (Testing for fear against height, tight places etc). They are forced to climb up on obstacles with no safety protectors which causes few soldiers to quiet as they could not cope with the height and no safety line. Fatigue also messes with their heads
> 
> Then constant marches (Hikes) 6 miles with 50 pound bags on their shoulders.
> 
> > Sudden requirement changes to forget about day time hike and do a mission
> 
> Pitch Dark night , flag / course finding missions , can't turn on lights , can't step on road , their Trainers monitored their actions using thermal / heat sensors. Anyone caught cheating like taking a nap or sleeping or stepping on roads gets disqualified. They had to navigate in dark night , no lights and with no moon in sky
> 
> Fews guys got busted cheating the system turning off their high tech gadgets and taking a nap or some had the head lights to see their area , which got picked up by thermal / night vision camera instructors were using
> 
> Then Team based hikes , groups given task to transport a heavy object with given , resources at hand , come up with solution and move the item to desired spot (Heavy Object) 12-13 people need to carry it (6 Miles distance) . If your team works together and you show good decision making you could make a device to transport things easily (less effort) vs carrying object 1 by 1 by hand.
> (They were given wheels to aid them carry) - Time duration limit, the tires / wheels constantly fall off due to sand and terrain if you did not design your solution correctly
> 
> Next day , they repeated the stuff , only now ... they did not had any wheels literally lifting or carrying the object on shoulders (12-14 people at time) taking turns. Again 6 miles new course. The road is full of deep sand and makes it hard to move
> 
> Overall in their trainings people were puking , bleeding , some had mental breakdowns , some injured their ankles one-two busted their knees or hips carrying the heavy load object in hike in team missions. (Which disqualified them immediately). And these were generally your fit soldiers not out of shape joe who could not take the training objectives or intensity
> 
> Then more surprise night hikes
> 
> Out of 256 entrants they reduced the field 120-130 people were eliminated or quit
> 
> The final 1/3 were then given critique by the Trainer and they also removed few entrants and only after that they approved the remaining ones to start their Green Baret Training
> 
> The documentary did not cover , what Training the "Selected" folks get which they need to pass in order to be called Green Baret, but the Pre Screen was quite intense physical and emotional test
> 
> They had few rules , you get injured you are out and you cannot hide an injury in order to continue in course training and you must follow orders to dot
> 
> Few guys were really happy they finished he course and said on camera they are certainly gonna be selected , eventually quite a few of them don't get elected
> even after finishing the 2 weeks course
> 
> At the end they announced from next year, Military will increase the duration of the pre screen course to 3 weeks



Il ask somebody abt it.. As for pre training or selection process.. Volunteers have to go through 24+ day selection process (screening process) before getting selected for training... Read a book by some retired indian military officer who was quoting SSGs selection process being better than indian MARCOS..

Apart from tht the interrogation at attack fort... In the last days itself is hell .. And u only get to wear a maroon beret once u have completed tht...


P.S: many are disqualifies due to injuries during the training and specially during the *interrogation*....

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## Amaa'n

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Il ask somebody abt it.. As for pre training or selection process.. Volunteers have to go through 24+ day selection process (screening process) before getting selected for training... Read a book by some retired indian military officer who was quoting SSGs selection process being better than indian MARCOS..
> 
> Apart from tht the interrogation at attack fort... In the last days itself is hell .. And u only get to wear a maroon beret once u have completed tht...
> 
> 
> P.S: many are disqualifies due to injuries during the training and specially during the *interrogation*....


SERE has become very important part of today's training - during this one is put into odd - intensifying positions - that is more about psychological then physical.....
if i recall correctly - 10 km hike with 100lbs is also part of Pre-selection

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Well , to me the SSG (Pak Forces) /Green Baret(US) training is brutal.

For a normal person they would last exactly 20-30 minutes on first day , those who are not military fit


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## blain2

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Il ask somebody abt it.. As for pre training or selection process.. Volunteers have to go through 24+ day selection process (screening process) before getting selected for training... Read a book by some retired indian military officer who was quoting SSGs selection process being better than indian MARCOS..
> 
> Apart from tht the interrogation at attack fort... In the last days itself is hell .. And u only get to wear a maroon beret once u have completed tht...
> 
> 
> P.S: many are disqualifies due to injuries during the training and specially during the *interrogation*....


The SSG selection process takes place over an approx. weeks' worth of time based on what I saw but this was some years back. Without going into a lot of details, its a mentally and physically taxing assessment for the officers. The selection criteria was based on the psychological testing for aptitude that the US Special Forces had instituted. The same goes on to date. Physically, its hard because most officers or ranks going for the selection typically are not accustomed to the SSG "Scale". This results in injuries etc. and inability to complete the selection process. However one point to consider is that a high "failure" rate is not necessarily a good thing. While it indicates the toughness of the program, it can also suggest that the readiness of the intake is not up to par. Meaning that the intake stream needs to have better preparation regimen. Lastly, the SSG would have a much higher induction rate if the units that offer up volunteers send their top folks (this is an individual unit issue where good nafri is not offered up to the SSG selection process out of fear of losing their good people to the SSG).

But all in all, SSG still gets above average intake both mentally and physically.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*From Operation Rah e Rast...*













*Brig TM -- Afghan Jihad:







SSG guys in Sri Lanka against the LTTE:





*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Old pics:






*

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## Inception-06

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Old pics:
> 
> View attachment 13034
> 
> *
> View attachment 13035
> 
> 
> View attachment 13036
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 13037
> 
> 
> View attachment 13038




what is the story of this soviet Tank ?


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## blain2

Ulla said:


> what is the story of this soviet Tank ?


Its a captured Indian Army M-4 Sherman Tank.

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## Amaa'n

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Old pics:
> 
> View attachment 13034
> 
> *


any idea about the area??


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## HAIDER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Old pics...

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## krash

Ha! I learnt to ski with these guys. Taught em a bit of angling too xD

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## kbd-raaf

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Il ask somebody abt it.. As for pre training or selection process.. Volunteers have to go through 24+ day selection process (screening process) before getting selected for training... Read a book by some retired indian military officer who was quoting SSGs selection process being better than indian MARCOS..
> 
> Apart from tht the interrogation at attack fort... In the last days itself is hell .. And u only get to wear a maroon beret once u have completed tht...
> 
> 
> P.S: many are disqualifies due to injuries during the training and specially during the *interrogation*....



What's the name of that book?

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## Irfan Baloch

Th&#601;or&#601;tic Muslim said:


> Same thing America gets when they train the Military of other Nations.
> 
> US Trains foreign militarys they get:
> 
> US weapon sales
> Regional stability, who's going to mess with a US ally?
> US interests
> Enhancing understanding
> Pomoting friendship, that Maj. coming to West Point in 10-14 is going to be some senior official at the Defense Ministry of his country
> Win-Win, soldiers get trained here Foreign win, US gets influence there.




unfortunately an SSG veteran and currently an instructor begs to disagree. he is my childhood friend and has led assaults in Sawat and waziristan. if I see his picture here I will point him out. 

he says that American courses are a waste of time for Pakistanis because they are blocked out of anything meaningful. any new tactics, equipment and techniques are kept off them and all these guys get is running around and bullshiiting .. 


these guys who go there are not raw recruits and have spent time in special forces and are physically and mentally fit already and looking for something new which their country doesnt offer.


he says he selected the turkish special forces course and gave up the American rangers course where he was short-listed. he has done the Chinese course as well and says it best suits the Pakistanis because both countries fully share their special techniques and tactics. 

if someone has a different opinion then let me know. yes you get a certificate in the end for completing an american course but it only consists of roughing up and running around and thats what they usually do in Pakistan and they dont need an American certification for that

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## Side-Winder



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## krash

Irfan Baloch said:


> unfortunately an SSG veteran and currently an instructor begs to disagree. he is my childhood friend and has led assaults in Sawat and waziristan. if I see his picture here I will point him out.
> 
> he says that American courses are a waste of time for Pakistanis because they are blocked out of anything meaningful. any new tactics, equipment and techniques are kept off them and all these guys get is running around and bullshiiting ..
> 
> 
> these guys who go there are not raw recruits and have spent time in special forces and are physically and mentally fit already and looking for something new which their country doesnt offer.
> 
> 
> he says he selected the turkish special forces course and gave up the American rangers course where he was short-listed. he has done the Chinese course as well and says it best suits the Pakistanis because both countries fully share their special techniques and tactics.
> 
> if someone has a different opinion then let me know. yes you get a certificate in the end for completing an american course but it only consists of roughing up and running around and thats what they usually do in Pakistan and they dont need an American certification for that



Heard the same thing from else where too; "Pakistani boys just go through the motions to humor the yanks and at times show them how to do a thing or two better."

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## Side-Winder

HAIDER said:


>



You sure,these are SSG guys?


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## Umair Nawaz

Side-Winder said:


>






Thats my School Friend, right now a Proud SSG commando.

Where did u find him Side winder?

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## Side-Winder

Umair Nawaz said:


> Thats my School Friend, right now a Proud SSG commando with his Brother.
> 
> Where did u find him Side winder?



just from a facebook page

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## HAIDER

trust the provider of these pics


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## Side-Winder

HAIDER said:


> trust the provider of these pics



who might that be?


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## viper46

NOMAN SALEEM said:


> they goes there's where dead fears to go!



man!!!! dead cannot go any where


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## Thəorətic Muslim

Irfan Baloch said:


> he says that American courses are a waste of time for Pakistanis because they are blocked out of anything meaningful. any new tactics, equipment and techniques are kept off them and all these guys get is running around and bullshiiting ..
> 
> he says he selected the turkish special forces course and gave up the American rangers course where he was short-listed. he has done the Chinese course as well and says it best suits the Pakistanis because both countries fully share their special techniques and tactics.



Yes. True Completely. ANY and ALL foreign soldiers who come for training in the US are just put through Boot Camp.

However, it's from Boot Camp that trains a soldier how to change his thinking. How to go from cannon fodder to a unconventional thinking Rambo machine. There aren't any new tactics in warfare. *Its the same as always.* You kill the other mother-fu<ker and don't think twice about it.

Now the techniques change. How you enter a building training manual from 1950 isn't going to be used now when you got dead man charges, or water explosive entry. And countries dont share the know-how on how to make these modern entry devices. The UK doesnt share their Spec Ops specific tech with the US and vice versa. 

Co-Training isn't meant for giving the other guy the knowledge on how to kill your troops. Its meant to say "Hey! Look at this country, you see how we're having joint training? Well that means you better not fu<k with this country until we see we dont need them anymore."

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## Irfan Baloch

Th&#601;or&#601;tic Muslim said:


> Yes. True Completely. ANY and ALL foreign soldiers who come for training in the US are just put through Boot Camp.
> 
> However, it's from Boot Camp that trains a soldier how to change his thinking. How to go from cannon fodder to a unconventional thinking Rambo machine. There aren't any new tactics in warfare. *Its the same as always.* You kill the other mother-fu<ker and don't think twice about it.
> "



thanks for confirming but like I said, our guys that are selected from the SSG pool are not green recruits they are one of the leading members of this group which has very high standards itself.
the kind of drill and paces they were put through are the normal routine in SSG camps.

I just passed the message about how one chap thought he wasted time there. and I get it that Americans will not feel comfortable with sharing anything with a country that might become selected to bring "democracy".

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## Imran Khan

Irfan Baloch said:


> thanks for confirming but like I said, our guys that are selected from the SSG pool are not green recruits they are one of the leading members of this group which has very high standards itself.
> the kind of drill and paces they were put through are the normal routine in SSG camps.
> 
> I just passed the message about how one chap thought he wasted time there. and I get it that Americans will not feel comfortable with sharing anything with a country that might become selected to bring "democracy".


sir TBH guys sitting in home they just missed chance otherwise they were best commandos as i can seen myself . give me a chance .

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## Inception-06

Umair Nawaz said:


> Thats my School Friend, right now a Proud SSG commando with his Brother.
> 
> Where did u find him Side winder?



The Tiger in the backround was killed with knife and hands by our Soldiers ?


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## Imran Khan

Ulla said:


> The Tiger in the backround was killed with knife and hands by our Soldiers ?


how many you need ? its just wool

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## Inception-06

Imran Khan said:


> how many you need ? its just wool



Before it was a wool,, it was a real animal ! I think one guy would have been enough.

















Question is how it was hunted down, shooted with a rifle ? Killed with hand and knife ? what is the Story of this killed Tiger ? Is just a Symbol of the SSG ? and why are they presenting the killed Tiger ?

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## Imran Khan

Ulla said:


> Before it was a wool,, it was a real animal ! I think one guy would have been enough.
> 
> View attachment 13277
> View attachment 13278
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Question is how it was hunted down, shooted with a rifle ? Killed with hand and knife ? what is the Story of this killed Tiger ? Is just a Symbol of the SSG ? and why are they presenting the killed Tiger ?


 ever you used a gun and ever you went for travel inside pakistan ? its Bengal (yellow orange) tiger you can't found it in pakistan or west india . stop worshiping solders

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## Inception-06

. stop worshiping solders[/quote]
"stop worshiping solders" ? uhhh I am sorry said:


> ever you used a gun and ever you went for travel inside pakistan ?



Yes Did travel every year to Pakistan, and sometime I get the chance to have some expirience in shooting with the Ak-47.

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## Imran Khan

Ulla said:


> Yes Did travel every year to Pakistan, and sometime I get the chance to have some expirience in shooting with the Ak-47.


yes 30 days per year and was hunter before leave pakistan its wool yaar bus na

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## Inception-06

Imran Khan said:


> tiger you can't found it in pakistan or west india . stop worshiping solders



Did you forget East Pakistan ? Our Army and SSG did operate there till 1971 !


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## Imran Khan

Ulla said:


> Did you forget East Pakistan ? Our Army and SSG did operate there till 1971 !


did you forget ? we got last flag of pakistan on dahaka from rail station master dahaka in 2005 ?

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## Inception-06

Imran Khan said:


> did you forget ? we got last flag of pakistan on dahaka from rail station master dahaka in 2005 ?



uuuf Brother, I did mean may be it was hunted and brought to West Pakistan before we lost East Pakistan in 1971, thats all.........


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## Thəorətic Muslim

Irfan Baloch said:


> thanks for confirming but like I said, our guys that are selected from the SSG pool are not green recruits they are one of the leading members of this group which has very high standards itself.
> the kind of drill and paces they were put through are the normal routine in SSG camps.



General Saab! I agree with you!

Foreign Soldiers who come to the US for Joint Training are never "Green". They are the best of what the country has to offer. Remember, the sending country always pays for the joint training. Would you send a "Green" or a socio-pathetic soldier?

And off the record - American Spec Ops aren't all they are shown to be. What America specifies as Spec Ops is different from what other countries classify theirs.

American Spec Ops, Tier 1, go in and out that's it. Their mission is very very very specific to: Kill this _______ (Person). 

The closest thing America has to the Pak SSG, who do a variety of Spec Op missions, would be the US Army Rangers 75th. Who would be used as Light Infantry.

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## blain2

Irfan Baloch said:


> unfortunately an SSG veteran and currently an instructor begs to disagree. he is my childhood friend and has led assaults in Sawat and waziristan. if I see his picture here I will point him out.
> 
> he says that American courses are a waste of time for Pakistanis because they are blocked out of anything meaningful. any new tactics, equipment and techniques are kept off them and all these guys get is running around and bullshiiting ..
> 
> 
> these guys who go there are not raw recruits and have spent time in special forces and are physically and mentally fit already and looking for something new which their country doesnt offer.
> 
> 
> he says he selected the turkish special forces course and gave up the American rangers course where he was short-listed. he has done the Chinese course as well and says it best suits the Pakistanis because both countries fully share their special techniques and tactics.
> 
> if someone has a different opinion then let me know. yes you get a certificate in the end for completing an american course but it only consists of roughing up and running around and thats what they usually do in Pakistan and they dont need an American certification for that



Unless the training is related to a new weapon system or technology, in most cases it is fairly basic. The other thing with courses overseas is that they assume the participants have a very rudimentary knowledge of what is to be taught. The junior officers we send over are already well grounded on the basics so either its a review of what has already been learnt or a slightly different way of learning the same. What is more valuable is technical training. This is when we get the benefit of learning about new technology used to conduct operations etc.

The overall positive is that its good for officers to get exposure and learn how things are done overseas. The other thing is that training which is valuable for other armies in their formative years has very little use for armies with well structured training courses and centers of instruction. For some well established militaries, its worthwhile to send people for these courses because for them the element of interoperability is important. In Pakistan, interoperability with Americans is not a significant issue, however it is still good for officers to do foreign course.

There is good and bad. The war in Afghanistan has certainly cooled the relations and there is a propensity to hold back on sharing worthwhile information. The cancelation of the sale of the sniper rifles by a manufacturer in the United States to Pakistan is indicative of the perceptions. When the Americans come over to Pakistan, we have our concerns with that as well.

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## Irfan Baloch

Th&#601;or&#601;tic Muslim said:


> The closest thing America has to the Pak SSG, who do a variety of Spec Op missions, would be the U*S Army Rangers *75th. Who would be used as Light Infantry.


yup thats the one my friend was talking about 2 years ago, currently he is conducting operations so cant be reached . I just sent him good wishes via his family.


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## krash

Side-Winder said:


> You sure,these are SSG guys?



Why do you doubt it?


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## Rashid Mahmood

HAIDER said:


>




As per my assessment these not SSG pictures

1st Picture:
The picture was used in the "Operator Challenge 2011" Website : Operator Challenge

2nd Picture:
There is no record of such camo being used in PA.

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## Umair Nawaz

Ulla said:


> The Tiger in the backround was killed with knife and hands by our Soldiers ?


i can persuade him to join this forum if u like?

Then u can ask him directly.

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## krash

Rashid Mahmood said:


> As per my assessment these not SSG pictures
> 
> 1st Picture:
> The picture was used in the "Operator Challenge 2011" Website : Operator Challenge
> 
> 2nd Picture:
> There is no record of such camo being used in PA.



The second picture is a simple ghillie suit, can be obtained easily and we've seen different and better ghillie suits being used by our snipers. The grass and the shrub in the background looks pretty typical of our environments, though.


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## Thəorətic Muslim

The 75th Ranger Regiment is *not *a SOF group. 

They are are just _*highly elite light infantry force*_ assigned to SOCOM with the objective to conduct special operations in support of SOCOM missions. 

The training is different because, from other Spec Ops, due to the different mission objective. Ranger School is a ball busting, humbling experience, course designed to strip you of your manhood. It is designed to mimic the stresses, a Ranger will see in combat. Through this, Ranger students learn the necessity of planning, execution, teamwork. Leaving no stone unturned, no leader is considered a leader unless he faces the same experiences of those enlisted. Leaders earn their place, it is never given. Ranger School is designed to stress individuals to their physical limits in its three weeks and to expose those who are unable to be team players under stressful situations. 

Once a soldier has been selected, then the emphasis is to build upon that soldiers' physical fitness and qualifications that were screened in his application (GT score = general aptitude and intelligence, DLAB = language aptitude, etc.). The end state of SFQC and the follow on training is an operator capable of both detailed planning and the capability to interact on missions independent of higher command but within the intent and purpose of their mission. 

So, I'd say that while the Rangers would fall in comfortably within the direct action spectrum of the Spec Ops mission, Spec Op teams cover much more ground in their FID, SR, UW, and CT missions. Follow-up training is regularly given to enhance the Ranger's unconventional skills required from them. 

In other words, each American Spec Ops team is _*elite in their own rights*_. Each Spec Ops Tier, has different missions, although they share some of the spectrum of special operations.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

kbd-raaf said:


> What's the name of that book?



*India's Special Forces: History and Future of Special Forces*
By P C Katoch (Retd Indian Army), Saikat Datta







And offcourse its not 100% accurate and subjected to his bias.....................


----------



## kbd-raaf

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *India's Special Forces: History and Future of Special Forces*
> By P C Katoch (Retd Indian Army), Saikat Datta
> 
> 
> View attachment 13312
> 
> 
> And offcourse its not 100% accurate and subjected to his bias.....................





> Read a book by some retired indian military officer who was quoting SSGs selection process being better than indian MARCOS



I don't see how that page from his book validates the above though.


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## krash

kbd-raaf said:


> I don't see how that page from his book validates the above though.



And I quote, "Prehaps we could learn something from the selection process of foreign special forces. In the Special Services Group...."


----------



## kbd-raaf

krash said:


> And I quote, "Prehaps we could learn something from the selection process of foreign special forces. In the Special Services Group...."



But that doesn't mean that he thinks the SSG selection process is superior. How would he know?


----------



## krash

kbd-raaf said:


> But that doesn't mean that he thinks the SSG selection process is superior. How would he know?



That can be seen simply from the paragraph structure; first sentence of the para states that they can learn something from others and then the paragraph continues to describe the SSG selection process i.e. the others and their process. And if one can learn from the other's process then that means that the other's process is better, maybe not absolutely but there do exist elements which are better, according to the statement that is.

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## kbd-raaf

krash said:


> That can be seen simply from the paragraph structure; first sentence of the para states that they can learn something from others and then the paragraph continues to describe the SSG selection process i.e. the others and their process. And if one can learn from the other's process then that means that the other's process is better, maybe not absolutely but there do exist elements which are better, according to the statement that is.



Yes, agreed. No system is perfect, the SSG might be doing something well that the MARCOs are not, but there might be (and hopefully for Pakistan, there is) a SSG officer who is looking at other training processes and looking to learn from them too.


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## special

krash said:


> And I quote, "Prehaps we could learn something from the selection process of foreign special forces. In the Special Services Group...."




he is not saying that SSg's selection process is superior than marcos. he was mentioning about army's selection process, in indian army the selection process is not leaner. some part is done by special forces and some by regulars.

army personals don't even know much about the selection process of marcos. navy kept the details of training very secretly and there is no joint training b/w paracommandos and marcos in INS Abhimanyu or any other special ops traing centers of navy ...marcos basic training is similar to US navy seals, the seals BUTS training is replicated in marcos training. the rejection rate in marcos training had never came below 85%. indian army personal only do training in navy's diving school and marcos do training in CIJW, HAWS and special forces training school in nahan of the army.


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## krash

kbd-raaf said:


> Yes, agreed. No system is perfect, the SSG might be doing something well that the MARCOs are not, but there might be (and hopefully for Pakistan, there is) a SSG officer who is looking at other training processes and looking to learn from them too.



Of course they must be, these aren't mouse pushing, doped up internet warriors we're talking about.

@special , read my post after that one. Can't explain it any better.

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## Amaa'n

Thəorətic Muslim said:


> The 75th Ranger Regiment is *not *a SOF group.
> 
> They are are just _*highly elite light infantry force*_ assigned to SOCOM with the objective to conduct special operations in support of SOCOM missions.
> 
> The training is different because, from other Spec Ops, due to the different mission objective. Ranger School is a ball busting, humbling experience, course designed to strip you of your manhood. It is designed to mimic the stresses, a Ranger will see in combat. Through this, Ranger students learn the necessity of planning, execution, teamwork. Leaving no stone unturned, no leader is considered a leader unless he faces the same experiences of those enlisted. Leaders earn their place, it is never given. Ranger School is designed to stress individuals to their physical limits in its three weeks and to expose those who are unable to be team players under stressful situations.
> 
> Once a soldier has been selected, then the emphasis is to build upon that soldiers' physical fitness and qualifications that were screened in his application (GT score = general aptitude and intelligence, DLAB = language aptitude, etc.). The end state of SFQC and the follow on training is an operator capable of both detailed planning and the capability to interact on missions independent of higher command but within the intent and purpose of their mission.
> 
> So, I'd say that while the Rangers would fall in comfortably within the direct action spectrum of the Spec Ops mission, Spec Op teams cover much more ground in their FID, SR, UW, and CT missions. Follow-up training is regularly given to enhance the Ranger's unconventional skills required from them.
> 
> In other words, each American Spec Ops team is _*elite in their own rights*_. Each Spec Ops Tier, has different missions, although they share some of the spectrum of special operations.


and since we are talking about SoF then just for others to note - 75th Ranger Regiment should not be confused with Ranger Patch one gets from Ranger school.
75th Ranger Regiment is more like a Support Unit to Special Forces - and 75th along with few others are Army Special Operation Force.
for UK equivalent I would say we have UKSFSG (Special Forces Support Group) where you have Royal Marines & Paratropper Regiment.


----------



## Thəorətic Muslim

balixd said:


> and since we are talking about SoF then just for others to note - 75th Ranger Regiment should not be confused with Ranger Patch one gets from Ranger school.
> 75th Ranger Regiment is more like a Support Unit to Special Forces - and 75th along with few others are Army Special Operation Force.



Rangers Tab means little to nothing. Its just a tab you get after competing 62 days of intense training. Think of it as, a infantry soldier getting his feet wet with a little more specialized training that's about it.

Don't underestimate the 75th. Many of them go on into --> Green Berets --> Delta --> CIA SAD --> _______ after a few years.


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## Amaa'n

Thəorətic Muslim said:


> Rangers Tab means little to nothing. Its just a tab you get after competing 62 days of intense training. Think of it as, a infantry soldier getting his feet wet with a little more specialized training that's about it.
> 
> Don't underestimate the 75th. Many of them go on into --> Green Berets --> Delta --> CIA SAD --> _______ after a few years.


i know that - that is why, i said since we are at it, i thought it was important to mention for others to know.

I never under estimated 75th Ranger & the likes, infact they are ,as you said, part of US SOCOM and Army's special operation force,


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## DESERT FIGHTER




----------



## Kompromat

Originally posted by @cadet zain | edited for hiding identities.

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## Soldier-X

Aeronaut said:


> Originally posted by @cadet zain | edited for hiding identities.
> 
> View attachment 13471
> View attachment 13472


o thanks bro....and
sorry i'm new to pdf so dont know all the rules but i'll say 1 thing that these kind of pics are revolving through fb and other forum without hiding thier identitien


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## Kompromat

cadet zain said:


> o thanks bro....and
> sorry i'm new to pdf so dont know all the rules but i'll say 1 thing that these kind of pics are revolving through fb and other forum without hiding thier identitien



These are our best trained men, its our responsibility to protect their identities. Take pics to the paint software and add a black stripe on the eyes - if you dont have adobe to use the blur tool. Doesn't take long at all.

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## Zarrar Alvi

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 13026
> View attachment 13028
> 
> 
> *From Operation Rah e Rast...*
> 
> 
> View attachment 13029
> View attachment 13030
> View attachment 13031
> 
> 
> *Brig TM -- Afghan Jihad:
> 
> View attachment 13032
> 
> 
> SSG guys in Sri Lanka against the LTTE:
> 
> View attachment 13033
> *


tell me more about this SSG pic the guy in srilanka gainst LTTE do u have any info about the operations??

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarrar Alvi said:


> tell me more about this SSG pic the guy in srilanka gainst LTTE do u have any info about the operations??



The first team of instructors were sent during Zias regime... And SL guys are still being trained in our institutes..Ops I Dnt think anything till now has been declassified or revealed.

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## Soldier-X

Aeronaut said:


> These are our best trained men, its our responsibility to protect their identities. Take pics to the paint software and add a black stripe on the eyes - if you dont have adobe to use the blur tool. Doesn't take long at all.


ok, i'll take care nxt time


----------



## Side-Winder

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The first team of instructors were sent during Zias regime... And SL guys are still being trained in our institutes..Ops I Dnt think anything till now has been declassified or revealed.



We do have a lankan military cadet studying at MCS.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Side-Winder said:


> We do have a lankan military cadet studying at MCS.


You will find them everywhere from arty school to NDU..

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## Zarrar Alvi

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The first team of instructors were sent during Zias regime... And SL guys are still being trained in our institutes..Ops I Dnt think anything till now has been declassified or revealed.


thanks

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## Viper 94

Zarvan said:


>


what sniper is he holding



Aeronaut said:


> THAT is a very dangerous bag.


the commandos has such an intimidating look


----------



## Kompromat

Viper 94 said:


> what sniper is he holding
> 
> 
> the commandos has such an intimidating look




There is no Sniper rifle here - There are 2 M4A1s and the rest are MP-5 variants.

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## Viper 94

Aeronaut said:


> There is no Sniper rifle here - There are 2 M4A1s and the rest are MP-5 variants.


oh sorry i didnt mean to ask you 
it was a different post


----------



## Kompromat



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Viper 94 said:


> what sniper is he holding
> 
> 
> the commandos has such an intimidating look


*Accuracy International Arctic Warfare* ..

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## gangsta_rap

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Accuracy International Arctic Warfare* ..



No, he's holding an AK-47 Drugnove reconciles marksmen DMR sniper rifle


----------



## Umair Nawaz

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> You will find them everywhere from arty school to NDU..


i can conform from NDU.



Aeronaut said:


>


he is @Chinese-Dragon

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## DESERT FIGHTER

GIANTsasquatch said:


> No, he's holding an AK-47 Drugnove reconciles marksmen DMR sniper rifle



Really?

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## gangsta_rap

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Really?



k im wrong, its actually an m14 abrams railgun sniper


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

GIANTsasquatch said:


> k im wrong, its actually an m14 abrams railgun sniper



Is it???

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## Amaa'n

lol at above posts -

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## Soldier-X

Umair Nawaz said:


> i can conform from NDU.
> 
> 
> he is @Chinese-Dragon


he is from hazara comunity balouchistan...they looks like chiness

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## krash

cadet zain said:


> he is from hazara comunity balouchistan...they looks like chiness


Mongolian ancestry, e.g. Changaizis.

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## Soldier-X

SSW

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## Soldier-X



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## Soldier-X



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## Soldier-X

during cambrian patrol exercise

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@cadet zain all of these are years old and have been posted several times...


----------



## Soldier-X

an older one 





nice sketch of SSG 







DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @cadet zain all of these are years old and have been posted several times...


oh..well i post these pics becuse i dont see these pics atleast in this thread

i dont know much bout other forums in pdf ...

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## Soldier-X

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @cadet zain all of these are years old and have been posted several times...


so why dont you make this thread special and sticky for pak SFs e.g SSG ...every single picog pak SFs should be here in this thread instead of any other irelated thread
so we can find all about SFs from this single 1 plateform


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## DESERT FIGHTER

cadet zain said:


> so why dont you make this thread special and sticky for pak SFs e.g SSG ...every single picog pak SFs should be here in this thread instead of any other irelated thread
> so we can find all about SFs from this single 1 plateform



Check the previous pages..


----------



## Kompromat

Originally posted by @cadet zain - Reposted after editing.

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## Kompromat

@DESERT FIGHTER 

More pictures of SOW are needed.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Aeronaut said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> More pictures of SOW are needed.



Sir il try.. I had some in my old laptop which got screwed .. But let's see..

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## Kompromat

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sir il try.. I had some in my old laptop which got screwed .. But let's see..



If you don't find them, your 'huqa pani is gul' from this thread.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Aeronaut said:


> If you don't find them, your 'huqa pani is gul' from this thread.



Pa ji another way is ask members from Quetta to visit the airport .. They will probably find heavily geared (if not fully) SOW guys ..

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## Side-Winder




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## DESERT FIGHTER

Side-Winder said:


> Not sure if been posted already




Yup posted last year .. 

P.S blur the faces..


----------



## Side-Winder

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yup posted last year ..
> 
> P.S blur the faces..



ok i can delete this one of them.


----------



## Side-Winder



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## Informant

cadet zain said:


> View attachment 14538
> 
> 
> nice sketch of SSG
> View attachment 14540



Not a sketch just some fancy filter on the image. Plus not Pak SSG at all, probably US Army rangers or Marines, may as well be Australian Army.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> Not a sketch just some fancy filter on the image. Plus not Pak SSG at all, probably US Army rangers or Marines, may as well be Australian Army.



It's from a video game..


----------



## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It's from a video game..



I guess our gear isnt as crisp as the one in the image or employed by the US forces.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> I guess our gear isnt as crisp as the one in the image or employed by the US forces.



Not really .. Check out the previous pages ../ 

Most of these pics are copied from FB .... And guys are not in full gear..


----------



## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Not really .. Check out the previous pages ../
> 
> Most of these pics are copied from FB .... And guys are not in full gear..



I know, but the pinache is missing. Anyways need more pics.


----------



## Kompromat



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## Kompromat

Punjab Ranger's counter terrorist unit.

Sindh Ranger's Counter Terrorist Unit.

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## Soldier-X



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## Kompromat

@Side-Winder 






​

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## Side-Winder

Aeronaut said:


> @Side-Winder
> 
> View attachment 15866
> 
> 
> ​



Awesome..will be uploading it inshaALLAH.

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## Zarrar Alvi

*SSG GUYS BRIEFING Srilankan army Chief Gen Nalin Senaveratna in Anuradhapura 1986



*

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## Side-Winder



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## Kompromat

SSG collecting his Lunch.

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## Kompromat



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*SSG in Sri Lanka 1986?*








Aeronaut said:


>



18 Jan? 2013 Pak-Saudi Ex .. Naseem Al Bahr... 

Posted before... but here are more:

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## Zarrar Alvi

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 16236
> View attachment 16237
> 
> 
> *SSG in Sri Lanka 1986?*
> 
> View attachment 16238
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 18 Jan? 2013 Pak-Saudi Ex .. Naseem Al Bahr...
> 
> Posted before... but here are more:
> 
> View attachment 16239
> View attachment 16240
> View attachment 16241
> View attachment 16242


check the post number 698 bro abt SSG in Sri lanka 1986

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## Kompromat



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## Rashid Mahmood



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## Kompromat



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Vintage pic of SSGN








Rashid Mahmood said:


> View attachment 17029



RESPECT ... THANK YOU BROTHERS... THE COUNTRY PRAYS FOR YOU... MAY YOU REST IN PEACE... AND MAY ALLAH BLESS ALL MOTHERS WITH SONS LIKE YOU ..AMEEN

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## Shabaz Sharif

Why blur the images?


----------



## Last Hope

Don't post pictures of personnel without censoring their faces or eyes. This should be a standard policy on PDF. 
In other news, my friend got commissioned into SSG last week. Hopefully going to get a lot of multimedia!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Posted originally by a newbie.

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## Armstrong

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 17285
> 
> 
> Posted originally by a newbie.



What is this gun that he's holding ?


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Last Hope said:


> Don't post pictures of personnel without censoring their faces or eyes. This should be a standard policy on PDF.
> In other news, my friend got commissioned into SSG last week. Hopefully going to get a lot of multimedia!


he seems like pappu bacha.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Armstrong said:


> What is this gun that he's holding ?



Sig 551A1..

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## Darth Vader

Umair Nawaz said:


> he seems like pappu bacha.


he is cant u see even his gun is fake


----------



## Kompromat

*SSG is using SIG-556Xi









*


----------



## Kompromat

Armstrong said:


> What is this gun that he's holding ?



SIG-556Xi = the ultimate 5.56 badass!

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## farhan_9909

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 17285
> 
> 
> Posted originally by a newbie.



actually this is a fake pic.

i have seen more photos of him


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

farhan_9909 said:


> actually this is a fake pic.
> 
> i have seen more photos of him



yes there is another pic... but the uniform is quiet accurate.. n sigs are also in service even with cops..


----------



## farhan_9909

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> yes there is another pic... but the uniform is quiet accurate.. n sigs are also in service even with cops..



I believe he's wearing someone'e else uniform


----------



## Kompromat

farhan_9909 said:


> I believe he's wearing someone'e else uniform



Its a bit dodgy, could be true as well.

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## Kompromat



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## Soldier-X



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## Gabriel92



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Gabriel92 said:


>



Very old pics bro n repost.. but Merci !!

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## Soldier-X



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## Soldier-X



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## SBD-3



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## SBD-3



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## SBD-3



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## Zarrar Alvi

Aeronaut said:


> *SSG is using SIG-556Xi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


fake pics he is not from SSG look at the wing he is wearing in the second pic its not of SSG


----------



## SBD-3

Zarrar Alvi said:


> fake pics he is not from SSG look at the wing he is wearing in the second pic its not of SSG


Badge below Pakistani flag on the left shoulder is that of SSG


----------



## Zarrar Alvi

hasnain0099 said:


> Badge below Pakistani flag on the left shoulder is that of SSG


These two things are compulsory for SSG soldiers and the guy in the above pic is wearing Regular army paratrooper wing he is not from SSG

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## Soldier-X



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## RAMPAGE

hasnain0099 said:


> View attachment 18158
> View attachment 18159
> View attachment 18160
> View attachment 18161
> View attachment 18163
> View attachment 18164


I loved the Khaki


----------



## Zarvan



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## DESERT FIGHTER

cadet zain said:


> View attachment 18496



Hes army not SSG... And a repost just like this one:

Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW. | Page 49

and many other... most of these pics are reposts man.. try to post vids,pics like that of RAGS etc...


----------



## Bratva

cadet zain said:


> View attachment 18011
> View attachment 18012



Comparing physique of our commandos with Serbians or American operators, they look slender or lean instead of having solid physique :/ . SSG should put a healthy diet regimen for it's operators.

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## Informant

mafiya said:


> Comparing physique of our commandos with Serbians or American operators, they look slender or lean instead of having solid physique :/ . SSG should put a healthy diet regimen for it's operators.



We arent the Aryan race, where the whities are huge tall motherfuckers. Shit Even the girls there seems tall for me at a hight of 6'0 ( 5'11 actually  ). Sexy though. We the brown race are of smaller stature. We are Arain hahahaha. Milawat zada.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> We arent the Aryan race, where the whities are huge tall motherfuckers. Shit Even the girls there seems tall for me at a hight of 6'0 ( 5'11 actually  ). Sexy though. We the brown race are of smaller stature. We are Arain hahahaha. Milawat zada.



Damn you retarded... have you ever seen an official photoshoot of SSG etc? unlike serbians etc... or what about the russians?

inferior Pak:

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## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Damn you retarded... have you ever seen an official photoshoot of SSG etc? unlike serbians etc... or what about the russians?
> 
> inferior Pak:
> View attachment 18531



Chalo ji apki srdh gayi? The average Pakistani height is 5'8 or 5'7. So you mean to tell me this make us inferior? What is your thought process man. The white people are genetically tall and broad built. Science.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> Chalo ji apki srdh gayi? The average Pakistani height is 5'8 or 5'7. So you mean to tell me this make us inferior? What is your thought process man. The white people are genetically tall and broad built. Science.


 
Our height is similiar to Afghans,Iranians n N.Indians(Punjab) ... apart from that it also has to do with nutrition etc... here is a study... Pak lost 4 inchs in the last 50 years:

Height of Pakistanis has fallen 4 inches over 50 years, say experts – The Express Tribune

As for the "looking good" thing... thts coz we dont have those cool possed for the camera pics like the Serbs or others... also take a look at the russians etc during real military drills and not posses... 

Also most of these old guys are "Chachas"... not to forget the individual fitness system introduced by the army for the troops...Gyms and other facilities have been established by regiments for their troops.. (unlike the past)..

P.S:Also the 5-10+ is the eligibility for Frontier Corps troops... 5-7-8?+ for Army.. relaxed for under developed areas.. by 5-6..

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## Zarvan



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## syedali73

Zarvan said:


>


Now thats some General, reminds of Ali ibn Abi Talib, Khalid bin Waleed, Tariq bin Zyad. He is Lt-Gen Haroon.

Zarwan, why did you post the photo of your enemy?

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## Zarvan

syedali73 said:


> Now thats some General, reminds of Ali ibn Abi Talib, Khalid bin Waleed, Tariq bin Zyad. He is Lt-Gen Haroon.
> 
> Zarwan, why did you post the photo of your enemy?


I never consider them enemy but I don't like when they attack own people and become allies of kafirs to attack Muslims but when they attack and finish Indians I love them and I would love to be part of them in hunting down Indians


----------



## A.Razzaq

Special Boys with Special Attitude

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Vintage SSN pic..




*


----------



## Zarvan

GHOST RIDER said:


> Why is this Mr SSG so angry???????????


He is Indian Soldier not SSG


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> He is Indian Soldier not SSG


These pics r OLDDDD.


----------



## Bossman

Zarvan said:


> He is Indian Soldier not SSG


What makes you think he is Indian? This picture has been around for ages and the gentlemen is Pakistani.

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## Zarrar Alvi

Zarvan said:


> He is Indian Soldier not SSG


he is SSG yara and this pic is quiet old from mid 90s


----------



## Zarvan



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## DESERT FIGHTER

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Our height is similiar to Afghans,Iranians n N.Indians(Punjab) ... apart from that it also has to do with nutrition etc... here is a study... Pak lost 4 inchs in the last 50 years:
> 
> Height of Pakistanis has fallen 4 inches over 50 years, say experts – The Express Tribune
> 
> As for the "looking good" thing... thts coz we dont have those cool possed for the camera pics like the Serbs or others... also take a look at the russians etc during real military drills and not posses...
> 
> Also most of these old guys are "Chachas"... not to forget the individual fitness system introduced by the army for the troops...Gyms and other facilities have been established by regiments for their troops.. (unlike the past)..
> 
> P.S:Also the 5-10+ is the eligibility for Frontier Corps troops... 5-7-8?+ for Army.. relaxed for under developed areas.. by 5-6..



5"8 for average recruit/army..


----------



## Zarvan



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


>


Oooooldddd n reeeppppppoooosssssstttttt.


----------



## Inception-06

Zarvan said:


>




Thx for posting this picture, I think for many Members it might be new, and not a "repost" !

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ulla said:


> Thx for posting this picture, I think for many Members it might be new, and not a "repost" !



For newbies everything is new even if it is from the 90s.

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## Koovie

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Damn you retarded... have you ever seen an official photoshoot of SSG etc? unlike serbians etc... or what about the russians?
> 
> inferior Pak:
> View attachment 18531




Who the hell wants such bodybuilders in a SF unit? I bet he cant run 5 k in a decent time nor is his BFP desirable


----------



## Zarvan




----------



## Neptune

Zarrar Alvi said:


> he is SSG yara and this pic is quiet old from mid 90s



Can't be. First holographic sight was introduced at 1998 to US servicemen. At 2000s some other foreign armed forces acquired it.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Neptune said:


> Can't be. First holographic sight was introduced at 1998 to US servicemen. At 2000s some other foreign armed forces acquired it.



I think he is talkin about the ooold guy/intructor...


......................


Zarvan said:


>



Another old n repost...

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## Neptune

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I think he is talkin about the ooold guy/intructor...
> 
> 
> ......................
> 
> 
> Another old n repost...



Hmm. But I see a EOTech there. Impossible to be from nineties

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## DESERT FIGHTER

cadet zain said:


> View attachment 18019



Most of these pics are old .. others taken from FB... As for the pics posted by Zarvan all of them are years old (some from early 2000s others half a decade old).. most are training pics...

This is the pic they are talkin abt:








It is probably older... the uniform etc is similiar to the one used during the Afghan Jihad days..... saw this pic in the "Green Book" when i was a kid in the 90s...


----------



## DRaisinHerald

Informant said:


> We are Arain hahahaha. Milawat zada.



Arain aan mundeya?


----------



## Zarvan




----------



## Zeeshi

A.Razzaq said:


> Special Boys with Special Attitude
> View attachment 19220


i Love SSG.........


----------



## Kompromat



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## Kompromat

@DESERT FIGHTER  FYI

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## dawn_news

Informant said:


> . We the brown race are of smaller stature. We are Arain hahahaha. Milawat zada.



Good news @Zarvan bro is also arain

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## Informant

DRaisinHerald said:


> Arain aan mundeya?



SHAIKKKHHHH your booty


----------



## fatman17

"The SSG has really well equipped itself with the latest and most advanced weapons. It has a wide arsenal in its use to suit its needs. It includes the famed Heckler and Koch 9mm MP5 SMG, Heckler and Koch 7.62 x 51mm Gewher-3 (G3, a.k.a. HK91 in USA) assault rifle, China made Type- 56 7.62 x 39mm autos (Chinese version of Russian AK47), the new Steyr's 5.56mm NATO A.U.G assault rifle. In their Sniper weapons, they use scoped up G3s, Finnish Tikka bolt actions, as well as Steyr SSG 69 7.62 x 51mm (.308 win) bolt actions. The pistols in use are Austrian 9mm Glock 15, the Berretta M9 (M92F), the SIG Pro 226. The latest Fabrique Nationale Herstal's (FN-Herstal) 5.7x28mm P90 SMG is also reserved for very high-risk applications."

Ravi Rikhye.

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## Umair Nawaz

fatman17 said:


> "The SSG has really well equipped itself with the latest and most advanced weapons. It has a wide arsenal in its use to suit its needs. It includes the famed Heckler and Koch 9mm MP5 SMG, Heckler and Koch 7.62 x 51mm Gewher-3 (G3, a.k.a. HK91 in USA) assault rifle, China made Type- 56 7.62 x 39mm autos (Chinese version of Russian AK47), the new Steyr's 5.56mm NATO A.U.G assault rifle. In their Sniper weapons, they use scoped up G3s, Finnish Tikka bolt actions, as well as Steyr SSG 69 7.62 x 51mm (.308 win) bolt actions. The pistols in use are Austrian 9mm Glock 15, the Berretta M9 (M92F), the SIG Pro 226. The latest Fabrique Nationale Herstal's (FN-Herstal) 5.7x28mm P90 SMG is also reserved for very high-risk applications."
> 
> Ravi Rikhye.


POF Eye?


----------



## Zarvan




----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Umair Nawaz said:


> POF Eye?





fatman17 said:


> "The SSG has really well equipped itself with the latest and most advanced weapons. It has a wide arsenal in its use to suit its needs. It includes the famed Heckler and Koch 9mm MP5 SMG, Heckler and Koch 7.62 x 51mm Gewher-3 (G3, a.k.a. HK91 in USA) assault rifle, China made Type- 56 7.62 x 39mm autos (Chinese version of Russian AK47), the new Steyr's 5.56mm NATO A.U.G assault rifle. In their Sniper weapons, they use scoped up G3s, Finnish Tikka bolt actions, as well as Steyr SSG 69 7.62 x 51mm (.308 win) bolt actions. The pistols in use are Austrian 9mm Glock 15, the Berretta M9 (M92F), the SIG Pro 226. The latest Fabrique Nationale Herstal's (FN-Herstal) 5.7x28mm P90 SMG is also reserved for very high-risk applications."
> 
> Ravi Rikhye.



Alot more.......

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## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Alot more.......



Old weapon systems.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> Old weapon systems.




M-4s.,M-16s.FN-2000S,mp-5 variants,AK variants( 57,47,103 etc,P-90s),Minimis,MG-3s,PKMs.FN MAGs,AUGs...etc etc etc?


----------



## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> M-4s.,M-16s.FN-2000S,mp-5 variants,AK variants( 57,47,103 etc,P-90s),Minimis,MG-3s,PKMs.FN MAGs,AUGs...etc etc etc?



All old systems. I have seen first hand AK's being used in close combat situation. AK's is useless in close combat. I am against the induction of FN-2000, way too many issues, nor the most practical. Our MP5's need rails and grips, collapsible stock.

We still dont have a portable LMG, we use the heavy weight MG3s. Still a long way to go.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> All old systems. I have seen first hand AK's being used in close combat situation. AK's is useless in close combat. I am against the induction of FN-2000, way too many issues, nor the most practical. Our MP5's need rails and grips, collapsible stock.


All there ..

Even sig 5.. Series ..



> We still dont have a portable LMG, we use the heavy weight MG3s. Still a long way to go.



Nope u won't see SSG guys with mg3s... In old pics it's always th PK mg.. Apart from tht minimis n fns are also there .. Browse the pics specially the SSG,SSN,SSW,SOW thread.. Which has a lot more multimedia this this thread..

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## Amaa'n

Informant said:


> All old systems. I have seen first hand AK's being used in close combat situation. AK's is useless in close combat. I am against the induction of FN-2000, way too many issues, nor the most practical. Our MP5's need rails and grips, collapsible stock.
> 
> We still dont have a portable LMG, we use the heavy weight MG3s. Still a long way to go.


Might be old but time tested systems, even today you see NS carrying Colt CM based weapons....


----------



## Informant

balixd said:


> Might be old but time tested systems, even today you see NS carrying Colt CM based weapons....



Colt carbine based weapons are still exceptional especially with their modularity.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> All there ..
> 
> Even sig 5.. Series ..
> 
> Nope u won't see SSG guys with mg3s... In old pics it's always th PK mg.. Apart from tht minimis n fns are also there .. Browse the pics specially the SSG,SSN,SSW,SOW thread.. Which has a lot more multimedia this this thread..




I did but the weapon systems still mainly comprise of T-56 rifles. The other more ergonomic and modern weapon systems are few and far between. Plus either they have PKM which is a cumbersome weapon or FN MAG which is a bit heavy. No optics on either. I guess it is a slow process to acquire all the weaponry but SF divisions cant be this lax.


----------



## Zarvan




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## Zarvan



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## fatman17

"The SSG has really well equipped itself with the latest and most advanced weapons.

14 years on they were considered as well equipped. see no reason why they still arnt.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


>





Zarvan said:


>










VERY OLD REPOSTS.....


----------



## LeonKing

*DESERT FIGHTER, hey, do i know ya in utube, which r u? btw trying message u bt dnt know how, am new here lol, so kindly help me with this hahaha*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

LeonKing said:


> *DESERT FIGHTER, hey, do i know ya in utube, which r u? btw trying message u bt dnt know how, am new here lol, so kindly help me with this hahaha*




Yeah we talked a couple of times on YT... Im/was raaak1990... forgot my channels password so aint online these days... as for PMing... you cant brother.. only mods have tht perk... anything else ... tag/mention my id in whatever thread in members club...il be there..


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> Colt carbine based weapons are still exceptional especially with their modularity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did but the weapon systems still mainly comprise of T-56 rifles. The other more ergonomic and modern weapon systems are few and far between. Plus either they have PKM which is a cumbersome weapon or FN MAG which is a bit heavy. No optics on either. I guess it is a slow process to acquire all the weaponry but SF divisions cant be this lax.



O please bud... dont believe me? what abt fatman?


fatman17 said:


> "The SSG has really well equipped itself with the latest and most advanced weapons.
> 
> 14 years on they were considered as well equipped. see no reason why they still arnt.


----------



## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> O please bud... dont believe me? what abt fatman?



They are better equipped no doubt. Compared to other Special Services around the world they lack armor, combat kits, etc etc.

If you see it relative to other forces/branches of Pakistan Army then sure they are up there.


----------



## LeonKing

cant say i remember lol, am shitty at storage my memories


----------



## airmarshal

Have these special forces taken part in any operation of note? 

Do our special forces have all the gear needed for modern special forces? As special forces are a few select soldiers, it will be much easier to buy all the expensive gear for small group compared to military in general.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Zarrar Alvi said:


> *SSG GUYS BRIEFING Srilankan army Chief Gen Nalin Senaveratna in Anuradhapura 1986
> View attachment 15918
> *





DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 13026
> View attachment 13028
> 
> 
> *From Operation Rah e Rast...*
> 
> 
> View attachment 13029
> View attachment 13030
> View attachment 13031
> 
> 
> *Brig TM -- Afghan Jihad:
> 
> View attachment 13032
> 
> 
> SSG guys in Sri Lanka against the LTTE:
> 
> View attachment 13033
> *


@sreekumar @Screambowl @Span found it. Check the last pic.....

Got it now! Shabash ab chup chap bhaag jao yahan say.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Ab bolo beta @Screambowl......


----------



## Screambowl

Umair Nawaz said:


> @sreekumar @Screambowl @Span found it. Check the last pic.....
> 
> Got it now! Shabash ab chup chap bhaag jao yahan say.



why are you mentioning me here? LOL

In Lanka, Pakistan has provided training, intel and logistic support, we know that. What's there to show off?


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Screambowl said:


> why are you mentioning me here? LOL
> 
> In Lanka, Pakistan has provided training, intel and logistic support, we know that. What's there to show off?


have u check the last pic of the quoted post?
Its of a Recon team of SSG in Srilanka against tamil terrorists. Anyways in other thread we were actually discussion this where u jumped in between hence quoted.


----------



## Screambowl

Umair Nawaz said:


> have u check the last pic of the quoted post?
> Its of a Recon team of SSG in Srilanka against tamil terrorists. Anyways in other thread we were actually discussion this where u jumped in between hence quoted.


 How many times do I have to say, Intel, Logistic and training was there, but infantry did not play any role.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Screambowl said:


> How many times do I have to say, Intel, Logistic and training was there, but infantry did not play any role.


First tell me do u know What Recon team is?


----------



## Screambowl

Umair Nawaz said:


> First tell me do u know What Recon team is?


 Recon is intelligence team not strike team.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Screambowl said:


> Recon is intelligence team not strike team.


a Recon team is part of armed forces that points our potential locations and targets or scouts an area. The effectively engage in combat as well. And in the pic u can see the entire team resting under the tree shade. This proves SSG was deployed in Srilanka!! Hence my point. Got it now.

Reconnaissance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Screambowl

Umair Nawaz said:


> a Recon team is part of armed forces that points our potential locations and targets or scouts an area. The effectively engage in combat as well. And in the pic u can see the entire team resting under the tree shade. This proves SSG was deployed in Srilanka!! Hence my point. Got it now.



even if Nawaz shareef or Musharraf had overnighted in jafna this does not mean he actually killed LTTE. If Pakistan military did carry out strike operations, then they would be summoned by UNSC.

Recon team does not fire a bullet.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Screambowl said:


> even if Nawaz shareef or Musharraf had overnighted in jafna this does not mean he actually killed LTTE. If Pakistan military did carry out strike operations, then they would be summoned by UNSC.
> 
> Recon team does not fire a bullet.


Reconnaissance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

pagal itny darty kyu ho hum say.........hum nai khaty tumhen........If yr country didnt do anything ask them its none of our worry.


----------



## Thəorətic Muslim

Screambowl said:


> Recon team does not fire a bullet.





Screambowl said:


> Recon is intelligence team not strike team.



There's Recon and Surveillance; which are taught to each Long Range Recon Patrol, Recon & Surveillance Team, Spec Operator etc.

While Recon and Surveillance might seem like the same word spelled differently, they are actually different.

Recon: Is the objective to gain additional intel on an existing target/ area
Surveillance: observation of a target/ area

While LRRPs, RST, Spec Ops are taught to NOT engage the enemy while behind enemy lines there uncommonly occurs that a High Value Target or some sort of Force Multiplier is seen by the Team and they are told by command to either laz that for fighters/ bombers/ missiles to take out or they go in themselves.

The US is experimenting with Reconnaissance, Surveillance, and Target Acquisition. Where pretty much LRRPs are given mobile with Humvees, Strylers, M3 Bradleys.


----------



## Screambowl

Thəorətic Muslim said:


> There's Recon and Surveillance; which are taught to each Long Range Recon Patrol, Recon & Surveillance Team, Spec Operator etc.
> 
> While Recon and Surveillance might seem like the same word spelled differently, they are actually different.
> 
> Recon: Is the objective to gain additional intel on an existing target/ area
> Surveillance: observation of a target/ area
> 
> While LRRPs, RST, Spec Ops are taught to NOT engage the enemy while behind enemy lines there uncommonly occurs that a High Value Target or some sort of Force Multiplier is seen by the Team and they are told by command to either laz that for fighters/ bombers/ missiles to take out or they go in themselves.
> 
> The US is experimenting with Reconnaissance, Surveillance, and Target Acquisition. Where pretty much LRRPs are given mobile with Humvees, Strylers, M3 Bradleys.



Do you know SSG in Lanka was assigned Recon. missions. And that chap argued something different, and you are debating the similar. If SSG was involved in assault, then UNSC would have summoned Pakistan for war crimes in Lanka. This is common sense.



Umair Nawaz said:


> Reconnaissance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> pagal itny darty kyu ho hum say.........hum nai khaty tumhen........If yr country didnt do anything ask them its none of our worry.



if you want to discuss properly on the topic only then quote me. 

Assault is not recon. Read your own marked link of wikipedia.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> They are better equipped no doubt. Compared to other Special Services around the world they lack armor, combat kits, etc etc.
> 
> If you see it relative to other forces/branches of Pakistan Army then sure they are up there.



Nope... they are equipped on par with other special forces... although you wont find much multimedia on it... but yes they are ...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

\\


@Informant

SSGN Video:

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## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 25038
> View attachment 25039
> View attachment 25040
> \\
> 
> 
> @Informant
> 
> SSGN Video:



Where is the armor? No requirement for BBQ gloves, no ear pieces. Just because they have m4's with optics doesnt make them on par with other SFs in equipment. Training is no issue.

Plus all but one is wearing the helmet right. The others need to know basics.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Informant said:


> Where is the armor? No requirement for BBQ gloves, no ear pieces. Just because they have m4's with optics doesnt make them on par with other SFs in equipment. Training is no issue.
> 
> Plus all but one is wearing the helmet right. The others need to know basics.


Uncle ji it was a mock drill ... N the guys weren't using their full equipment .. You will seldom see SSG pics from the front .. Specially them fully equipped .. Most of the pics of this thread are from exs or after ops .. 

Here is a show woh footage of some SSG guys in good gear .. I posted the screen shots earlier in the thread .. But here take a look :


Awam Ki Awaz - 7th September 2013 (( 7 Sept 2013 ) S S G Pak Navy Ka Special Group Hai | Tune.pk

Or how about reviewing old officially released pics ..(pics from Mushak era .. ) !???

Pic from early-mid 2000s Musharraf era :


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## krash

Screambowl said:


> even if Nawaz shareef or Musharraf had overnighted in jafna this does not mean he actually killed LTTE. If Pakistan military did carry out strike operations, then they would be summoned by UNSC.
> 
> Recon team does not fire a bullet.



Why would they be summoned by the UNSC? The Indian army went in there in a lot more numbers before, were they summoned too? *actual question*


Also, unidentified aircraft of a "friendly country's" air force were also reportedly called in to bomb the LTTE after which they flew back home. It's widely believed that those were PAF birds.

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## Kompromat



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## Screambowl

krash said:


> Why would they be summoned by the UNSC? The Indian army went in there in a lot more numbers before, were they summoned too? *actual question*
> 
> 
> Also, unidentified aircraft of a "friendly country's" air force were also reportedly called in to bomb the LTTE after which they flew back home. It's widely believed that those were PAF birds.



Indian army went there in 1980 as Peace Keeping force. If PAF was deployed, India would have intervened.


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## Zarvan



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## krash

Screambowl said:


> Indian army went there in 1980 as Peace Keeping force. If PAF was deployed, India would have intervened.



As long as it wasn't a UN sanctioned peace keeping mission, it makes no difference. Otherwise there would be no problem with Russia invading Ukraine, their's is a 'peace keeping' force too. And the Indian forces sent to Srilanka weren't on a UN sanctioned peace keeping mission either (correct me if I'm wrong). All that matters is that you are there fighting for an officially legitimate side, have gone there through legal means and are not committing crimes against humanity (Unless of course you're a true global power). This is what allies do, have done and will keep on doing. The PAF was deployed, India had no right, actual concern or the intention of making a handful of jets bombing terrorist hideouts into something needlessly stupid. But the Indians did make some hue and cry about it. Quite a lot out there on this, please do the search.

Besides, Pakistani forces have actively participated in many conflicts of friendly nations without the UN umbrella before.


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## Zarvan



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## TaimiKhan

Keep the discussion to some other thread. This is just for pics.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


>




Sufi sb koi tou nai pic post kar dou...

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## PWFI

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Sufi sb* koi tou nai pic post kar dou...

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## Zarvan



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## Stealth



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## fatman17




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## RAMPAGE

From fb

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*SSG(N)*







*SSW:




*

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Black Eagle 90

Stealth said:


>



PN should be looking to increase their numbers of SSGN to 11,000 men along with the whole Naval Force.

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## hkdas

Black Eagle 90 said:


> PN should be looking to increase their *numbers of SSGN to 11,000 men *along with the whole Naval Force.



is that a joke??

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## DESERT FIGHTER

by @Stealth :

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Guys post pics here:


Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW. | Page 53

we have several threads running on SSG... its confusing..

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## Umair Nawaz

Aeronaut said:


>


issy garmi nai lagti??

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## fatman17

hkdas said:


> is that a joke??


 
no he is dead serious...

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## hkdas

fatman17 said:


> no he is dead serious...



so he don't even know the difference b/w special forces and infantry.....


----------



## Thorough Pro

No! He himself is a joke.



hkdas said:


> is that a joke??


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*post deleted... posted in SSG,SSW,SSGN,SOW thread.*


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## Zarrar Alvi

Black Eagle 90 said:


> PN should be looking to increase their numbers of SSGN to 11,000 men along with the whole Naval Force.


11000??? total strength of SSG is few thousands ... man in my dad's course out of 93 officers only 11 were successful and in my course only 9 were awarded with wings .. we are talking about special forces not about regular army

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Indus Falcon

Black Eagle 90 said:


> PN should be looking to increase their numbers of SSGN to 11,000 men along with the whole Naval Force.


He's possibly on to something. I just heard right the Navy is getting a budget increase, approved by pindi.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abu Nasar said:


> He's possibly on to something. I just heard right the Navy is getting a budget increase, approved by pindi.



Hope you are right bro...

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## Indus Falcon

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Hope you are right bro...


me too

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## Zarrar Alvi

Abu Nasar said:


> me too


increase in budget will not increase the strength of SSGN because course criteria will remain the same

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## DESERT FIGHTER

_Old pic .. Musa Coy with POF EYE:_

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## Zarrar Alvi

*ZARRAR ATU*

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## Umair Nawaz

Is POF eye deployed in numbers?


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## Zarrar Alvi

Umair Nawaz said:


> Is POF eye deployed in numbers?


only for Zarrar and Karrar ATU

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## Imran Khan

Umair Nawaz said:


> Is POF eye deployed in numbers?


need is very limited sir so numbers will be same also .

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## Umair Nawaz

Imran Khan said:


> need is very limited sir so numbers will be same also .


sir if we take israel as an example then they also face same circumstances. But have deployed in decent numbers?

I think i need to be clarified on POF eye's deployment.

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## Imran Khan

Umair Nawaz said:


> sir if we take israel as an example then they also face same circumstances as us and have deployed in decent numbers?
> 
> I think i need to be clarified on POF eye's deployment.


i just used my own idea here sir . numbers will be classified but i think very small number of CS they buy .

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## blain2

You cannot have a special force for the Navy with 11000 personnel. Even doubling SSG(N) would be sufficient for all of the envisaged tasks. It has been a challenge enough for the Army to get a divisional strength Special Forces formation in place. It is very cost prohibitive and maintaining the standards makes it very difficult to raise such large formations.

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## Zarvan



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Old pic:




*

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## Thorough Pro

What's so special about POF eye? it's a simple 9mm pistol fitted in a swivel frame with a camera and screen to provide visibility around corners, probably with aiming capability through camera. It's not an assault weapon to be used by SSG in all circumstances. 



Umair Nawaz said:


> sir if we take israel as an example then they also face same circumstances. But have deployed in decent numbers?
> 
> I think i need to be clarified on POF eye's deployment.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Thorough Pro said:


> What's so special about POF eye? it's a simple 9mm pistol fitted in a swivel frame with a camera and screen to provide visibility around corners, probably with aiming capability through camera. It's not an assault weapon to be used by SSG in all circumstances.



Its not fitted .. it can be replaced etc.. it houses not just a simple camera but NVG etc .. anyhow you are right not a big number is required.

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## Umair Nawaz

Thorough Pro said:


> What's so special about POF eye? it's a simple 9mm pistol fitted in a swivel frame with a camera and screen to provide visibility around corners, probably with aiming capability through camera. It's not an assault weapon to be used by SSG in all circumstances.


9mm pistol is its one of variants but its a corner shotgun and we made it first after isrealis who claimed nobody else can make.


----------



## Thorough Pro

As far as I know, 9mm pistol is the only variant and that too with Chinese NP42, and that hints at either Chinese origin or Chinese help. As I mentioned its nothing more than a frame with a camera mount.






Israeli is "Corner Shot" not "Corner shotgun" and uses a 9mm Glock 17 (probably variants for other platforms/ bores also exist)












Umair Nawaz said:


> 9mm pistol is its one of variants but its a corner shotgun and we made it first after isrealis who claimed nobody else can make.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Thorough Pro said:


> As far as I know, 9mm pistol is the only variant and that too with Chinese NP42, and that hints at either Chinese origin or Chinese help. As I mentioned its nothing more than a frame with a camera mount.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli is "Corner Shot" not "Corner shotgun" and uses a 9mm Glock 17 (probably variants for other platforms/ bores also exist)


I have seen the damn thing from my own sinful eyes, but let it go u won happy!!

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## Thorough Pro

I said "Fitted" not fixed. 

NVG (night vision goggles): you probably meant NVS (night vision scope)



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Its not fitted .. it can be replaced etc.. it houses not just a simple camera but NVG etc .. anyhow you are right not a big number is required.


----------



## Thorough Pro

It's not about winning or losing, I stated the facts to the best of my knowledge which may not up to date and there could very well be new variants.

But understating the principal the key essence here is to provide the operator ability to look and if required shoot around corners while staying behind the cover in urban (short range) environment.

As the shooting would be at a sharp angel 60/75 degrees, it would be very difficult if not impossible to shoot a heavy gun with high recoil as that may result in uncontrollable muzzle flip, cracking or breaking of the swivel head.

by the way I too have seen it with my own eyes (probably every one sees with his/her own eyes, never heard any one seeing from someone else's eyes )



Umair Nawaz said:


> I have seen the damn thing from my own sinful eyes, but let it go u won happy!!

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## Umair Nawaz

Thorough Pro said:


> It's not about winning or losing, I stated the facts to the best of my knowledge which may not up to date and there could very well be new variants.
> 
> But understating the principal the key essence here is to provide the operator ability to look and if required shoot around corners while staying behind the cover in urban (short range) environment.
> 
> As the shooting would be at a sharp angel 60/75 degrees, it would be very difficult if not impossible to shoot a heavy gun with high recoil as that may result in uncontrollable muzzle flip, cracking or breaking of the swivel head.
> 
> by the way I too have seen it with my own eyes (probably every one sees with his/her own eyes, never heard any one seeing from someone else's eyes )


would u believe if i say the latest variant can engage targets in full 90 degree angel?

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## Thorough Pro

I know it can. I mentioned 60-75 degrees because no operator would be sticking with the wall on one side and the criminal doing the same on the other side of the wall.



Umair Nawaz said:


> would u believe if i say the latest variant can engage targets in full 90 degree angel?

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## acetophenol

Wishes to the brave men of Pakistan who bravely defends their motherland.

@DESERT FIGHTERo you have any firms that makes tactical helmets and vests in Pakistan?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

acetophenol said:


> Wishes to the brave men of Pakistan who bravely defends their motherland.
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTERo you have any firms that makes tactical helmets and vests in Pakistan?



Yes both by govt complexes aswell as private companies...

Interceptor (used by PA)






A ballistic helmet by govt owned GIDS:






Another:







etc etc.... while a new armour is under development according to MoDP.

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## acetophenol

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yes both by govt complexes aswell as private companies...
> 
> Interceptor (used by PA)
> View attachment 30892
> 
> 
> A ballistic helmet by govt owned GIDS:
> 
> View attachment 30893
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 30894
> 
> 
> 
> etc etc.... while a new armour is under development according to MoDP.


Links please
p.s:I would've thanked your posts,but I can't find thanks button on my cellphone version.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

acetophenol said:


> Links please
> p.s:I would've thanked your posts,but I can't find thanks button on my cellphone version.


Ballistic Body Armour, Safety Footwear - Lyra (Pvt.) Ltd.

https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&...x4tUEIJhQ8HWBeix035vCIw&bvm=bv.66917471,d.ZWU

And many more.

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## acetophenol

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Ballistic Body Armour, Safety Footwear - Lyra (Pvt.) Ltd.
> 
> https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&...x4tUEIJhQ8HWBeix035vCIw&bvm=bv.66917471,d.ZWU
> 
> And many more.


Damn they make denim bullet proofs? Wow! 
First time I am coming across such 'fashion BPJs!'


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

acetophenol said:


> Damn they make denim bullet proofs? Wow!
> First time I am coming across such 'fashion BPJs!'




nothing new.


----------



## acetophenol

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> nothing new.


yeah,turns out we have such things in India too:


----------



## Indus Falcon

acetophenol said:


> yeah,turns out we have such things in India too:


Was waiting for you to blow your own trumpet!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abu Nasar said:


> Was waiting for you to blow your own trumpet!


Nah actually he was hurt coz of my post in indian sf thread.. where i pointed out russian 6b7 helmets looking wierd n bulky... he was thinking we didnt produce body armour of ballistic helmets...



acetophenol said:


> yeah,turns out we have such things in India too:



With US made plates etc.? according to their site.

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## Indus Falcon

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nah actually he was hurt coz of my post in indian sf thread.. where i pointed out russian 6b7 helmets looking wierd n bulky... he was thinking we didnt produce body armour of ballistic helmets...
> 
> 
> 
> *With US made plates etc.? according to their site*.



In india it's called indigenization.

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## hkdas

Abu Nasar said:


> In india it's called indigenization.




wow...look who is talking about indigenisation... 


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *With US made plates etc.? according to their site.*



may be you are talking about MKU....MKU have a armour plates production unit in US...


----------



## acetophenol

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nah actually he was hurt coz of my post in indian sf thread.. where i pointed out russian 6b7 helmets looking wierd n bulky... he was thinking we didnt produce body armour of ballistic helmets...
> 
> 
> 
> *With US made plates etc.? according to their site.*


Can you point out the part in their website where it says the plates are made in US?



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nah actually he was hurt coz of my post in indian sf thread.. where i pointed out russian 6b7 helmets looking wierd n bulky... he was thinking we didnt produce body armour of ballistic helmets...


And please don't use your thoughts as mine.


----------



## acetophenol

Abu Nasar said:


> In india it's called indigenization.


No bro,in India,indigenization means having the capability to manufacture a product, or supply a service within the country.


----------



## random123

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yes both by govt complexes aswell as private companies...
> 
> Interceptor (used by PA)
> View attachment 30892
> 
> 
> A ballistic helmet by govt owned GIDS:
> 
> View attachment 30893
> 
> 
> Another:
> 
> View attachment 30897
> 
> 
> 
> etc etc.... while a new armour is under development according to MoDP.



So where is GIDS located and are they planning to open much bigger and better facilities in KPK, FATA and Balochistan??? I think they should move in along with NESCOM and SUPARCO.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

*OLD Pic from mid 2000s ..








*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Marines and SSG

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## DESERT FIGHTER

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD PICS OF SSGN










Bahr al Nasl 2014:

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## Roybot

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Marines and SSG
> 
> View attachment 31800



US Navy Seals.


----------



## Kompromat

They are SEALs but from a section of the SSGN, not US. That dark looking guy is from Pakistan's Makrani community.

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## Indischer

Aeronaut said:


> They are SEALs but from a section of the SSGN, not US. That dark looking guy is from Pakistan's Makrani community.



I think he only meant the first pic on that post. Not the pics having the Habshi.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

*OLD PICS mid-late 2000s:*














*Vintage SSGN pics:







*

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Roybot

Aeronaut said:


> They are SEALs but from a section of the SSGN, not US. That dark looking guy is from Pakistan's Makrani community.



Just the first pic mate. You can tell they are Americans just by looking at their stature and overall build


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## DESERT FIGHTER

2012:

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## Kompromat

Roybot said:


> Just the first pic mate. You can tell they are Americans just by looking at their stature and overall build




Bhai this is Makran coast. Pakistanis are mostly tall, well built men too and all branches of special ops in Pakistan have a minimum requirement of 5'7 height.

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## Roybot

Aeronaut said:


> Bhai this is Makran coast. Pakistanis are mostly tall, well built men too and all branches of special ops in Pakistan have a minimum requirement of 5'7 height.



You are free to google image search, and Pakistani soldiers are no where as built and gigantic as their American counterparts.


----------



## Kompromat

Roybot said:


> You are free to google image search, and Pakistani soldiers are no where as built and gigantic as their American counterparts.



Chalo yaar tum khush raho, hamari khair hai


----------



## Indus Falcon

Aeronaut said:


> Chalo yaar tum khush raho, hamari khair hai


Yara is thread koe zara dekhiya, needs some cleaning up and some banning to be done! Thanks!
Indian Lies = "Ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindus" | Page 4


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## Bossman

Roybot said:


> You are free to google image search, and Pakistani soldiers are no where as built and gigantic as their American counterparts.



I think you have had some very intimate experiences with American men and you have a very good sense of their body and physique. Did that experience help you get your H1B or the job with the call center?

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## Kompromat

SSW from PAF

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## Soldier-X



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## Soldier-X

SSG Commando showing his power













View attachment 32947

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Marines and SSG
> 
> View attachment 31800



These are not Pakistani.


----------



## Zarvan

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> These are not Pakistani.


They are Pakistani


----------



## Soldier-X

i think they are not pakistani, could be US navy seals...

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

cadet zain said:


> i think they are not pakistani, could be US navy seals...


Yup...They are US Navy SEALS.


----------



## Soldier-X

cadet zain said:


> i think they are not pakistani, could be US navy seals...


us navy seals - Google Search


----------



## Rashid Mahmood



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Rashid Mahmood said:


>


The guy on the right is Pakistani?


----------



## Zarvan



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## GHOST RIDER

Zarvan said:


>



These look like regular Army soldiers not SSG

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## Rashid Mahmood



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## Kompromat

^Babbar sher among a pack of shers.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


>




Chaha Sufi this is an old pic of regular troops .. It's years old.

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## Indus Falcon

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Chaha Sufi this is an old pic of regular troops .. It's years old.


Oye jawan shaer! Where have you been,missed you!

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## FenrirX




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## FenrirX

The bro on the right looks Super Cool


----------



## FenrirX

I love to make up lines.:p
Men of Pak Army really are very amazing people


----------



## Mujraparty

Aeronaut said:


> Bhai this is Makran coast. Pakistanis are mostly tall, well built men too and all branches of special ops in Pakistan have a minimum requirement of 5'7 height.



NSW Overview | Navy SEALs


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## Zarvan



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## Zarrar Alvi

*ZARRAR ATU*

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## Zarvan



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## Side-Winder

What gun is that?

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## Inception-06

Side-Winder said:


> What gun is that?
> 
> @Zarvan @DESERT FIGHTER



Its not a gun but a grenade launcher with a scope, very deadly can bring in seconds a lot of fireballs on enemy lines!!

I like more something like this here, it has a grenade launcher, scope, with a adjustable folding butt .

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## Zarvan

Side-Winder said:


> What gun is that?
> 
> @Zarvan @DESERT FIGHTER


Yes its a Gernade launcher bro

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## Hyperion

Dude, most Pashtuns are huge and heavy built by default, specially the ones in different branches of armed forces. Aero is right, specially so in the case of special forces.



Roybot said:


> You are free to google image search, and Pakistani soldiers are no where as built and gigantic as their American counterparts.



The scope on this particular rifle is absolutely useless........



Ulla said:


> Its not a gun but a grenade launcher with a scope, very deadly can bring in seconds a lot of fireballs on enemy lines!!
> 
> I like more something like this here, it has a grenade launcher, scope, with a adjustable folding butt .
> View attachment 35677

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## Inception-06

Hyperion said:


> The scope on this particular rifle is absolutely useless........




I could not finde a better picture in google, to show my favorite gun with all the Items which I want for my battle gun !

I would prefer the Pakistani scope version,which we are using on our Type-56 Guns, by the way are this scope imported from China or Russia ?

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## Hyperion

Yara, in general, any scope on an AK is utterly useless......... therefore, why would you be using it in the first place? This I speak from personal experience. 



Ulla said:


> I could not finde a better picture in google, to show my favorite gun with all the Items which I want for my battle gun !
> 
> I would prefer the Pakistani scope version,which we are using on our Type-56 Guns, by the way are this scope imported from China or Russia ?
> 
> View attachment 35678


----------



## Zarvan

Ulla said:


> I could not finde a better picture in google, to show my favorite gun with all the Items which I want for my battle gun !
> 
> I would prefer the Pakistani scope version,which we are using on our Type-56 Guns, by the way are this scope imported from China or Russia ?
> 
> View attachment 35678


I will post few here





















@Ulla

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## VCheng

Aeronaut said:


> Bhai this is Makran coast. Pakistanis are mostly tall, well built men too and all branches of special ops in Pakistan have a minimum requirement of 5'7 height.



from: Osama Bin Laden dead: Navy 'SEAL-mania' grips US as souvenirs and fitness books sell out | Mail Online

These are US Navy Seals:






+10
In action: The Navy SEALS have always held a certain fascination with the American public, but the daring exploits of SEAL Team 6 in taking out Osama Bin Laden have sparked even greater interest

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## Inception-06

Zarvan said:


> I will post few here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Ulla



A selam Zarvan, this are good picture, but notice all without the grenade launcher ! If you can finde picture with a grenade launcher installed on Ak-47 or Type-56 gun in service with pakistan Army....that would be great !

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## Kompromat

Whats beyond me is why didn't POF get production for Magpaul buttstock and Rail systems for the AKs. If we could mass produce them, they would become a cheap solution to upgrade all existing AKs with latest scopes,sights and grips rather than sticking with the outdated iron sights.

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## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


> Whats beyond me is why didn't POF not get production for Magpaul buttstock and Rail system for the AKs. If we could mass produce them, they would become a cheap solution to upgrade all existing AKs with latest scopes,sights and grips rather than sticking with the outdated iron sights.


Sir what improvements have been in this upgraded version which we are now using can you share the details

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## Kompromat

@Zarvan 

* Red DOT sight/scope
* Picatiny rails to replace wooden grips.
* Retractable bipod'n grip.
* No upgrade on the buttstock
* No upgrades on the top cover
* No upgrades to pistol grips
* No upgrades to mags.

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## Zarvan

Aeronaut said:


> @Zarvan
> 
> * Red DOT sight/scope
> * Picatiny rails to replace wooden grips.
> * Retractable bipod'n grip.
> * No upgrade on the buttstock
> * No upgrades on the top cover
> * No upgrades to pistol grips
> * No upgrades to mags.


And did range improved or not ?

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## Inception-06

Zarvan said:


> And did range improved or not ?



How you want improve the range ? That can be only done with a new rifle designe or new ammunition.



Aeronaut said:


> Whats beyond me is why didn't POF get production for Magpaul buttstock and Rail systems for the AKs. If we could mass produce them, they would become a cheap solution to upgrade all existing AKs with latest scopes,sights and grips rather than sticking with the outdated iron sights.



That is really a good question, If we could upgrade all our MG-3, G-3 and Ak-series that would really give our Infantry Forces a new and deadly capability to engage and destroy the enemy faster, precise and better than before.



Aeronaut said:


> Upgraded G3s.



what is the status of the mass production ? Why the new "upgraded" G-3 have no scopes ? Red dod light ?.......

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Side-Winder said:


> What gun is that?



Milkor grenade launcher.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ulla said:


> A selam Zarvan, this are good picture, but notice all without the grenade launcher ! If you can finde picture with a grenade launcher installed on Ak-47 or Type-56 gun in service with pakistan Army....that would be great !
> View attachment 35681



Search this thread .. U will find many... Here is one from early 2000s.its a 101..not 47

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## F.O.X

Side-Winder said:


> What gun is that?



M32 grenade Launcher .

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## django

Hyperion said:


> Yara, in general, any scope on an AK is utterly useless......... therefore, why would you be using it in the first place? This I speak from personal experience.



Sir could you be more specific.

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## Inception-06

Hyperion said:


> Yara, in general, any scope on an AK is utterly useless......... therefore, why would you be using it in the first place? This I speak from personal experience.



Ohh and why ? I did have training only with scope and it was very usefull !


----------



## Hyperion

Mate, I've used AK all my life...... let's say since I was 12...... in my experience it's the general "andaza" that's best with it...... on the other hand, M4 is amazing with various scopes..........



Ulla said:


> Ohh and why ? I did have training only with scope and it was very usefull !


----------



## razgriz19

Roybot said:


> Just the first pic mate. You can tell they are Americans just by looking at their stature and overall build



Maybe they are American
these are SSGN Frogmen

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## Soldier-X




----------



## fatman17

SSG


----------



## FenrirX

Woah


----------



## FenrirX

Is that L85 in their hands.When did we used these,are these still being used.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Rude_Striker said:


> Is that L85 in their hands.When did we used these,are these still being used.



Baloch regiment (regular infantry) during Cambian patrol in UK.. They won it .


----------



## FenrirX

@DESERT FIGHTER 
Was this gun ever put into service by PAKISTAN ARMY.If yes then when and why we don't see it today.
It had quite some issues.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Rude_Striker said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> Was this gun ever put into service by PAKISTAN ARMY.If yes then when and why we don't see it today.
> It had quite some issues.



Nope.......


----------



## blain2

Hyperion said:


> Yara, in general, any scope on an AK is utterly useless......... therefore, why would you be using it in the first place? This I speak from personal experience.



Speaking from the experience soapbox - Its a decent weapon if selector is on semi auto. AK-47 variants have decent accuracy if not being fired in auto. - Now off the soapbox. ;-)

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## blain2

Informant said:


> Where is the armor? No requirement for BBQ gloves, no ear pieces. Just because they have m4's with optics doesnt make them on par with other SFs in equipment. Training is no issue.
> 
> Plus all but one is wearing the helmet right. The others need to know basics.


Training is the main issue. All the shiny new equipment won't do you any good if the basics and the tactics are not in place. A good set of equipment obviously makes the job easier, however with Pakistan being a third world country, obviously we have limitations in equipping our forces with all of the available equipment. At the end of the day, these cadres are doing a pretty good job with what is available to them. Experience wise, I am pretty sure our boys in the SSG are second to none in the roles they perform. We can grind operations out and hang in there with the best around the world. This speaks to the decades of institution building and experience. We are doing things with 1/5th the resources as compared to others and making decent headway. I am not too bothered by equipment.

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## Informant

blain2 said:


> Training is the main issue. All the shiny new equipment won't do you any good if the basics and the tactics are not in place. A good set of equipment obviously makes the job easier, however with Pakistan being a third world country, obviously we have limitations in equipping our forces with all of the available equipment. At the end of the day, these cadres are doing a pretty good job with what is available to them. Experience wise, I am pretty sure our boys in the SSG are second to none in the roles they perform. We can grind operations out and hang in there with the best around the world. This speaks to the decades of institution building and experience. We are doing things with 1/5th the resources as compared to others and making decent headway. I am not too bothered by equipment.



Equipments have to top notch when protecting very vital installations. We have a paltry amount of vessels, should not compromise on such issues. Though i have no doubts regarding our training and capabilities. It is a testament to our achievement with the least amount of equipment we have.


----------



## Hyperion

Agreed on the semi automatic part.......... speaking from experience sandbox, if you have spent sufficient time with an AK, you can even use it in Shikkar and shoot down a murghabi (while in flight)! 

Love that weapon............ 



blain2 said:


> Speaking from the experience soapbox - Its a decent weapon if selector is on semi auto. AK-47 variants have decent accuracy if not being fired in auto. - Now off the soapbox. ;-)


----------



## Kompromat



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## Irfan Baloch

Hyperion said:


> Yara, in general, any scope on an AK is utterly useless......... therefore, why would you be using it in the first place? This I speak from personal experience.


the play in the puzzle is in the classic AK's.. the Americanized version addresses that issue and the type 56 are known to be more accurate.
someone I know who is the user of these guns in our Waziristan operation has found no issues with killing taliban

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## 1000

Iraq's SF training with Pakistani SSG in Pakistan

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Zarb e Azab








Blast from the past:




*

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## Kompromat

1000 said:


> Iraq's SF training with Pakistani SSG in Pakistan




This is Cherat - the nest of the Black Storks - Welcome

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## 1000

Aeronaut said:


> This is Cherat - the nest of the Black Storks - Welcome



They are part of ISOF going through SSG training to learn more, they're supposed to set up the same training program back at home when they return. Our current regular forces get short bad training some 3 weeks only. Explains why many of them are no real soldiers, just for the paycheck. I think all soldiers should go through this training even if they don't make it through since high level infantry is needed

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## Kompromat

1000 said:


> They are part of ISOF going through SSG training to learn more, they're supposed to set up the same training program back at home when they return. Our current regular forces get short bad training some 3 weeks only. Explains why many of them are no real soldiers, just for the paycheck. I think all soldiers should go through this training even if they don't make it through since high level infantry is needed



They are here for Counterinsurgency training


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## Menace2Society




----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Operation Zarb e Azam (Sharp Strike):*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

1000 said:


> Iraq's SF training with Pakistani SSG in Pakistan



Not just with SSG ... Several countries send their Officers and Troops to our various intitutions... including Iraq...

Anyways kindly post this pics here:

Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW. | Page 53

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## DESERT FIGHTER




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## Kompromat



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## Major Sam

Aeronaut said:


> View attachment 38279



Sorry for off Question?
Can you please tell whats he is wear on his helmet? is some IR scope? or something else?

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## Kompromat

Major Sam said:


> Sorry for off Question?
> Can you please tell whats he is wear on his helmet? is some IR scope? or something else?



Night Vision Goggles.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Bratva

@DESERT FIGHTER As compared to other SF operators, doesn't SSG commandos combat gear looks little primitive. I mean they are just carrying 2 guns. No hand grenades, less ammo , A light Bullet proof jacket. Communication gear is also so so. What's your take on it. Is it due to mobility required in such a terrain that they are wearing less gear?

@blain2 @Icarus


Last pic in above post, SSG operator knee dug in the rocky clay without knee pad, discomfort would distract him greatly

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## nomi007




----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Icarus

Bratva said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER As compared to other SF operators, doesn't SSG commandos combat gear looks little primitive. I mean they are just carrying 2 guns. No hand grenades, less ammo , A light Bullet proof jacket. Communication gear is also so so. What's your take on it. Is it due to mobility required in such a terrain that they are wearing less gear?
> 
> @blain2 @Icarus
> 
> 
> Last pic in above post, SSG operator knee dug in the rocky clay without knee pad, discomfort would distract him greatly




Its low intensity combat in built up areas, their lines are within a few hundred meters of them so they usually operate light with just the basic essentials. Many soldiers also find that knee and elbow guards hinder their movement and so their adoption in the battlefield is sometimes missed out but seeing as its the battlefield and the soldier's own comfort can be given preference over protocol, its the small things that keep morale high.

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## Inception-06

Icarus said:


> Its low intensity combat in built up areas, their lines are within a few hundred meters of them so they usually operate light with just the basic essentials. Many soldiers also find that knee and elbow guards hinder their movement and so their adoption in the battlefield is sometimes missed out but seeing as its the battlefield and the soldier's own comfort can be given preference over protocol, its the small things that keep morale high.



And no hand grenades ?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Ulla said:


> And no hand grenades ?



These pics were taken during the media visit to Miranshah.. the combat etc was over... you dont except them to be fully equipped when there is no threat do you and the area is fully under control of the military n militants have been flushed..

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## Icarus

Ulla said:


> And no hand grenades ?



No, hand grenades are standard carry, everyone has grenades.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Training the Arabs:

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## Junaid Khosa

@nomi007 This guy look so smart he look like from American Special forces or Nato but i saw on him Kyun program of Dunya news tv Allah bless them


----------



## Junaid Khosa

This is a good topic





He is my relative 3rd cousin from my father side and he is only one person who is army and in SSG iam proud of him 





Skydiving is fun

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## blain2

K


Bratva said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER As compared to other SF operators, doesn't SSG commandos combat gear looks little primitive. I mean they are just carrying 2 guns. No hand grenades, less ammo , A light Bullet proof jacket. Communication gear is also so so. What's your take on it. Is it due to mobility required in such a terrain that they are wearing less gear?
> 
> @blain2 @Icarus
> 
> 
> Last pic in above post, SSG operator knee dug in the rocky clay without knee pad, discomfort would distract him greatly


Knee pads are a recent addition. Most of the hardening done in the SSG is without any of such luxuries.

On the first part, depends on where they are based/camped out of. If they are doing clearance work and have set camp near by then they do not need to carry all of their individual gear including the rucksack and additional gear. The ones that are tasked with operations in distant or hard to access areas take the entire gear with them. A lot of the hardening up in the SSG is done with full gear over very long distances cross country. 

The gear is decent, good enough for what they need to do. I am not much for how it looks as long as its functional, sufficient and allows the troops to maintain mobility. Grenades, percussion/incendiary/smoke are taken along/allotted as needed.

You need the right balance, that is something that does not bog the soldier down and at the same time is not cost prohibitive.

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## blain2

Hyperion said:


> Agreed on the semi automatic part.......... speaking from experience sandbox, if you have spent sufficient time with an AK, you can even use it in Shikkar and shoot down a murghabi (while in flight)!
> 
> Love that weapon............


Absolutely. In semi-auto, the accuracy is just fine. Its not a marksman weapon, but sufficiently accurate for infantry with a scope on.

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## viper46

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Training the Arabs:
> 
> View attachment 38506




we need to train them again and again and again...

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## JonAsad

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 38319
> View attachment 38321
> View attachment 38322
> View attachment 38323
> View attachment 38324


Last pic-
Whats that rectangular thingy hanging from this lad?-
Saw?-

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## Inception-06

JonAsad said:


> Whats that rectangular thingy hanging from this lad?-
> Saw?-



Yes it is a saw, I did notice this also....!

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## Jango

JonAsad said:


> Last pic-
> Whats that rectangular thingy hanging from this lad?-
> Saw?-



Yeah, looks like a metal saw.

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## JonAsad

Fulcrum15 said:


> Yeah, looks like a metal saw.


Why saw?- when you have guns to break locks?-
Is he from any engineering unit?-

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## Inception-06

JonAsad said:


> Why saw?- when you have guns to break locks?-
> Is he from any engineering unit?-



Who knows his situation in urbanwarfare, may be to open wood doors or to cut long cables it could be everything, seems to be a important tool for this SSG soldier.

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## JonAsad

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 25040



Thats a very big cctv camera in open with wires exposed- easy to cut easy to hack- not kool-



Zarrar Alvi said:


> *ZARRAR ATU*
> View attachment 27783
> View attachment 27784
> View attachment 27785
> View attachment 27786
> View attachment 27787
> View attachment 27788


Ninja SSG?- -


----------



## Inception-06

JonAsad said:


> Thats a very big cctv camera in open with wires exposed- easy to cut easy to hack- not kool-
> 
> 
> Ninja SSG?- -



whats is so funny ? This are Helicopter-borne SSG Troops !


----------



## fatman17



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## Irfan Baloch

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *
> View attachment 37704
> *


if I remember correctly, it was a house in sector G-6 in Islamabad, not the embassy where the Afghan terrorists belonging to Northern Alliance abducted the school bus and then took the hostages inside a private house and took the occupants of the house as hostages as well.

then interior minister Gen (r) Nasir Ullah Baber oversaw the operation... the AL Zarar unit wall called in and while an undisclosed number (maybe a platoon) of commandos's surrounded the place and covered all possible escape routes. only 4 commandos performed the breach and made two entry points with distracting explosions and then clinically finished the 4 terrorists off with short bursts of MP5. the assault team wore all black overalls and had their faces concealed under gas masks.
I forgot the terrorist demands if it was money or giving "Afghan" land or freeing some terrorists.the demands were definitely something which showed that terrorists were not expecting them to be fulfilled.

the only casualties were the 4 dead terrorists. no hostages or the members of assault team were hurt.

edited+
(food and money was demanded and the bus was later taken to Afghan embassy)

(what followed in Kabul was tragic because a mob of angry Afghans raided the Pakistani embassy and dragged 2 guys out and lynched them to death).

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## Zarrar Alvi

JonAsad said:


> Thats a very big cctv camera in open with wires exposed- easy to cut easy to hack- not kool-
> 
> 
> Ninja SSG?- -


Zarrar commandos

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## Side-Winder



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## Bratva

Mother of Lt Col Haroon Islam Shaheed

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## Bratva

Mother of Lt Col Haroon Islam Shaheed

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## MAB

SSG gear looks really good


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## Kompromat



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Aeronaut said:


> View attachment 40249
> View attachment 40250
> View attachment 40251
> View attachment 40252
> View attachment 40253
> View attachment 40254
> View attachment 40255
> View attachment 40256
> View attachment 40257
> View attachment 40258


First pic n last one only 1 of them (in both pic) is an SSG operator ...and posted on the prev pages.


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## Soldier-X



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Excellent pics. @cadet zain.

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## Kompromat

cadet zain said:


> View attachment 40392
> View attachment 40393
> View attachment 40394
> View attachment 40395
> View attachment 40396




@Stealth >> Swag for you my bro

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## Mercenary

Maybe its just me but can someone explain why Pakistani Special Forces are not as muscular as their American or European counterparts? US Special Froces are ripped with bulging biceps, abs and other noticeable muscles.


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## Kompromat

Mercenary said:


> Maybe its just me but can someone explain why Pakistani Special Forces are not as muscular as their American or European counterparts? US Special Froces are ripped with bulging biceps, abs and other noticeable muscles.



Being muscular has nothing to do with being healthy, agile and enduring.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Marines
















*

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## Basel

It seems SSG operating in operation is using western assault rifle, why??


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Basel said:


> It seems SSG operating in operation is using western assault rifle, why??


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## Sage

Major Imam Baqir is the one who led the operation against Afghan terrorists in Islamabad...That school bus hijack !


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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Zarrar company in 1985.. Training at Cherat







*

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## In arduis fidelis

Aeronaut said:


> View attachment 40249
> View attachment 40250
> View attachment 40251
> View attachment 40252
> View attachment 40253
> View attachment 40254
> View attachment 40255
> View attachment 40256
> View attachment 40257
> View attachment 40258


last one,the middle guy is na AMC doctor.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

DURING 2004 OPS IN WAZIRISTAN:












*
2006-7 Ops RAH E RAST:












Random :




*

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## Amaa'n

Aeronaut said:


> >> Swag for you my bro


yra atleast edit the third last pic - remove it -- officer's Body Armor is just plain wrong --- looks weird and embarrassing --- i understand it was for the mere purpose of photographs - par phir ve


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## Basel

@DESERT FIGHTER I only asked because NATO have 5.56 bullet as standard and we use 7.62 as standard and TTP is also using 7.62 which is considered confirmed kill bullet whereas 5.56 is not considered as deadly as 7.62, but NATO rifles are more accurate then our Russian or Chinese ones in use, is that the reason SSGs are using them?? Do we manufacture 5.56 bullets?? 

Also if we want to use 5.56 standard why M-4, M-16 or any of there variants from US?? there may be better and cheap option than that like Steyr Aug and others too. 

Steyr AUG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
Heckler & Koch G36 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
Heckler & Koch HK416 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Basel said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER I only asked because NATO have 5.56 bullet as standard and we use 7.62 as standard and TTP is also using 7.62 which is considered confirmed kill bullet whereas 5.56 is not considered as deadly as 7.62, but NATO rifles are more accurate then our Russian or Chinese ones in use, is that the reason SSGs are using them?? Do we manufacture 5.56 bullets??
> 
> Also if we want to use 5.56 standard why M-4, M-16 or any of there variants from US?? there may be better and cheap option than that like Steyr Aug and others too.
> 
> Steyr AUG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> .
> Heckler & Koch G36 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> .
> Heckler & Koch HK416 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



We already have a shit load of AUGs even with the cops... even Sig series ... They are using M-4s because it suites them... their choice...


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## Reichmarshal

Saudis......but the interesting bit is that they are all us rangers qualified. N worse in the field than our constabulary...truly a pathetic state of affairs



1000 said:


> with foreign forces


d

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## 1000

the page I got it from says Iraqis, but no idea how you can tell from where. I can't even see who is Pakistani and Arab


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## Irfan Baloch

Reichmarshal said:


> Saudis......but the interesting bit is that they are all us rangers qualified. N worse in the field than our constabulary...truly a pathetic state of affairs
> 
> 
> d


I have seen their drill
Saudi special forces are top notch

please dont confuse their forces with the fat Arab stereo type.
they crushed Al Qaeda inside their country and apart from a handful of terror incidents.. they kicked out Al Qaeda



Aeronaut said:


> They are here for Counterinsurgency training


I think it should be us going to them.
the Iraqi Special Police commandos under the leadership of Gen Adnan Thabit did some exceptional job against sunni insurgents of AL Qaeda and shia militias of Muqtada Al Sadr

I know Maliki wrecked everything now

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## Bratva

1000 said:


> the page I got it from says Iraqis, but no idea how you can tell from where. I can't even see who is Pakistani and Arab



It was interesting to read comments, where people had concerns why they were send to Pakistan when there are better SF schools in neighboring countries like in Jordan

And one comment was wishing them safety from Taliban. I chuckled


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## Irfan Baloch

Junaid Khosa said:


> @nomi007 This guy look so smart he look like from American Special forces or Nato but i saw on him Kyun program of Dunya news tv Allah bless them


really need to work on the abs to make them look unreal. 
check out the picture of an American Navy SEAL who is gearing a Pakistani diver.. his arms are bigger than my thighs


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## DESERT FIGHTER

1000 said:


> with foreign forces



post these pics here brother.

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## 1000

^^ moved it

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Irfan Baloch said:


> I have seen their drill
> Saudi special forces are top notch
> 
> please dont confuse their forces with the fat Arab stereo type.
> they crushed Al Qaeda inside their country and apart from a handful of terror incidents.. they kicked out Al Qaeda
> 
> 
> I think it should be us going to them.
> the Iraqi Special Police commandos under the leadership of Gen Adnan Thabit did some exceptional job against sunni insurgents of AL Qaeda and shia militias of Muqtada Al Sadr
> 
> I know Maliki wrecked everything now



SSG Navy with saudi conterpart:







The Fat arab stereotype:


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## Soldier-X

1000 said:


> ^^ moved it


SSG? why are they wearing diffrent unifrom?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

cadet zain said:


> SSG? why are they wearing diffrent unifrom?



Tht is not the SSG camo..


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## Soldier-X

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Tht is not the SSG camo..


then who are these guys? if not ssg...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

cadet zain said:


> then who are these guys? if not ssg...



Iraqi SF training at Cherat..

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## DESERT FIGHTER




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## Thəorətic Muslim

Irfan Baloch said:


> American Navy SEAL who is gearing a Pakistani diver.. his arms are bigger than my thighs



Contrary to belief, American troops aren't chosen for Spec Ops based on their arm size. Brains over brawn.

And Yes it is is true, in training exercises with foreign Spec Op forces, American Spec Ops tend to 'lag' behind in physical endurance exercises. That is a field that isn't emphasized much anymore. 

You have to remember Tier One American Spec Ops are trained to get in and out. Not endure constant fighting in one location. They are usually sent with the full armaments the US Military can afford. AC-130s, Armed Drones, etc. While a Pakistani SSG will be required to "stick it out with the enemy" with the limited support Pakistan can allocate.

Also, size doesn't matter anymore with training a 15 year old can take out an older opponent.

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## Reichmarshal

Irfan Baloch said:


> I have seen their drill
> Saudi special forces are top notch
> 
> please dont confuse their forces with the fat Arab stereo type.
> they crushed Al Qaeda inside their country and apart from a handful of terror incidents.. they kicked out Al Qaeda
> 
> 
> I think it should be us going to them.
> the Iraqi Special Police commandos under the leadership of Gen Adnan Thabit did some exceptional job against sunni insurgents of AL Qaeda and shia militias of Muqtada Al Sadr
> 
> I know Maliki wrecked everything now



Irfan sahab, having seen ths Saudis up close, again n again I can tell u that they are least interested/bothered about learning any thing or for that matter improving their lot or skills.....so wt usually happens is that the course conducting officer (DS in case of staff college) tells every one to think of them as "tourist", if they feel like doing any thing than good if not than their own prob. Of course their r exceptions.

They Saudis got their hind side kicked by a bunch of ragtag Yemenis n that too badly. The performance of the Saudi army including the special opps was farcical to say the least. N this was their first ever intl. incident in a long while. 
No wonder they sent a SOS to PA. I maybe some day will post pics of the the Saudi forces at the mountain warfare school stablished n manned by PA. They were the most unfit lot I have ever seen.
PA agreed to stablish n man the school on one condition n that was that no corners will be cut n training will be according to our standards. Brigade plus has been retrained by us n the difference is their for all to see.

The Saudis overcame alquida by clever use of the mullah n mullah alone

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## Informant

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> We already have a shit load of AUGs even with the cops... even Sig series ... They are using M-4s because it suites them... their choice...



M4 > AK 



Mercenary said:


> Maybe its just me but can someone explain why Pakistani Special Forces are not as muscular as their American or European counterparts? US Special Froces are ripped with bulging biceps, abs and other noticeable muscles.




They are paid shit wages
Daal khaenge muscke kahan se aenge?
Genes have a play, white people are built and tall. Broad aswell. Their physique is better suited.
Muscles dont make men.

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## Rashid Mahmood

*Top Ten Special Operations Forces in the World*

Countries throughout the world train special operation forces within their military, so coming up with a list of top special operations forces in the world is difficult at best. All special ops forces train their military men to be the best of the best, to take the impossible task and make it possible. In that respect, all Special Operations units are top. While the list below may not be everyone’s top ten, some of those listed would certainly be a part of any top ten lists.

*9. Pakistan Special Service Group* – This Pakistan Special Service Group (SSG) is also known as “Black Storks” a name derived from their unique headgear the “Maroon Beret”. The SSG has ten specific missions for which they are trained:






Asymmetric Warfare
Special Operations
Counter-Proliferation
Unconventional Warfare
Foreign Internal Defense
Special Reconnaissance
Direct Action
Hostage Rescue
Counter-Terrorist
Personnel Recovery
This elite group from Pakistan is somewhat similar to the US Army’s Green Berets and the British Army’s SAS. They often conduct exercise missions with Special Forces from other countries such as China and the UK.

http://armedforcesmuseum.com/top-ten-special-operations-forces-in-the-world/


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## wali nair

then


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## Talha Mateen

How many SSGs does PA has???


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## Irfan Baloch

Thəorətic Muslim said:


> Contrary to belief, American troops aren't chosen for Spec Ops based on their arm size. Brains over brawn.
> 
> And Yes it is is true, in training exercises with foreign Spec Op forces, American Spec Ops tend to 'lag' behind in physical endurance exercises. That is a field that isn't emphasized much anymore.
> .


sir you just committed a technical blasphemy and I must excuse myself from indulging with you anymore
people from special operations excel at physical endurance. that is one of the aspect that makes them special.
other wise you and your 15 year old cousin will be conquering Mascow now.

more muscle means more endurance and more force more tolerance. I speak with experience and examples
its not a debate.


good day

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## Irfan Baloch

Talha Mateen said:


> How many SSGs does PA has???


many 
declared are about a brigade size. enough to do the job
@Reichmarshal we will remain true to our thread. and remain focused on our special forces. 
my impression about Saudi forces changed dramatically after experiencing their training. @al-Hasani I have seen your elite police .. please share some links or if you prefer leave us in the ignorance bliss


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## RAMPAGE

@DESERT FIGHTER

Yara need an unedited version of this pic .....

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## DESERT FIGHTER

RAMPAGE said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> Yara need an unedited version of this pic .....



This is an old pic from Swat.. posted in in the SSG threads... mushkil hai... try searchin... you will find it..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*2007 Operation ThunderStorm (Largest heliborne ops):










View attachment 42135
*

More old pics:

In KSA training Saudi forces:






Old pics of Marine













*This is a very old pic (and posted several times)... im not sure if hes a Police commando or what:*






@Xeric @Icarus

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## Thəorətic Muslim

Irfan Baloch said:


> sir you just committed a technical blasphemy and I must excuse myself from indulging with you anymore
> people from special operations excel at physical endurance. that is one of the aspect that makes them special.
> other wise you and your 15 year old cousin will be conquering Mascow now.
> more muscle means more endurance and more force more tolerance. I speak with experience and examples
> its not a debate.



The average American Spec Operator is in his late 30s. They're expected to operate without constant micromanagement from the Pentagon. And the best crafted battle plans disintegrate upon first contact with the enemy, and they have to come up with a new one or end up in body bags. 

Most 20 year old infantry soldiers can't handle that pressure.

Look at the missions Spec Ops are supposed to do. Whats the ability to deadlift 300lbs when your mission is to recon? Language skills are better served. Teaching native soldiers how to conduct guerrilla warfare, Language and Patience. 



> Rear Adm. Sean A. Pybus, commander of Navy Special Warfare Command, said at the conference that he wanted to change SEAL training and emphasize “brain over bicep.”
> “We intend to make more investments in their mental capacity, their ability to focus, their ability to relax, their ability to memorize, to have a better understanding of human and physical terrain,” he said.



"Brains over Brawn" is versatility over old fashion brute force. American Spec Ops are trained to be ambassadors, not just warriors. Men who not only outlast an enemy, outmaneuver and disengage when the job is done, but project knowledge. 

Brute force is only for show, it's only going to get you so far. This is modern warfare not the last stand of 300.

American Spec Ops are trained for endurance, yes far outranking an American Infantry Soldier, but compared to Spec Op Forces from other countries they lag behind. 

"What Delta can do with technology, SAS does with skill."

The Day - Google News Archive Search


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## mughaljee

*دنیا بھر میں ممالک اپنی افواج میں سپیشل آپریشنز فورسز کو تشکیل دیتی ہیں جن پر وہ فخر بھی کرتی ہیں مگر پاکستان کے لیے یہ بہت بڑا اعزاز ہے کہ اس کے خصوصی دستے کو دنیا کی دس بہترین فورسز میں شامل کرلیا گیا ہے۔*

*دنیا بھر کی مسلح افواج میں معتبر سمجھے جانے والے جریدے آرمڈ فورسز ہسٹری میوزیم نے دنیا کی دس بہترین سپیشل آپریشنز فورسزکی فہرست مرتب کی ہے جس میں پاکستان کا سپیشل سروسز گروپ نویں نمبر پر موجود ہے اور اس معاملے میں وہ اپنے پڑوسی اور روایتی حریف ہندوستان سے بہت آگے ہے جس کا نام بھی ٹاپ ٹین میں شامل نہیں۔*

*جریدے نے پاکستان سپیشل سروسز گروپ المعروف ایس ایس جی کو اس کی دس خصوصیات کی بناءپر اس اعزاز کا حقدار قرار دیا ہے۔*

*ان خصوصیات میں سپیشل آپریشنز، غیرروایتی حربی صلاحیت، فارن انٹرنل ڈیفینس، براہ راست ایکشن، مغویوں کو بازیاب کرانا، دہشتگردوں کے خلاف کارروائی اور خصوصی دیکھ بھال سمیت دیگر شامل ہیں۔*

*رپورٹ میں بتایا گیا ہے کہ پاکستان کا یہ خاص فوجی دستہ کافی حد تک امریکی فوج کے گرین بیرٹ اور برطانوی فوج کے ایس اے ایس سے مماثلت رکھتا ہے، اور یہ اکثر چین اور برطانیہ جیسے دیگر ممالک میں بھی تربیتی مشنز میں حصہ لیتا رہتا ہے۔*

*اس فہرست میں دنیا کی سب سے بہترین فورس برٹش ایس اے ایس کو قرار دیا گیا ہے، جس کے بعد امریکی نیوی سیل ٹیم سکس دوسرے، یوایس آرمی ڈیلٹا فورس تیسرے، اسرائیلی شیاٹی 13 چوتھے، جرمن جی ایس جی 9 پانچویں، پولش گروم چھٹے، فرنچ آرمی سپیل فورسز بریگیئڈ ساتویں، آسٹریا ایکو کوبرا آٹھویں، پاکستان نویں اور رشین اسپیٹسناز دسویں نمبر پر موجود ہے۔*
پاکستانی کمانڈوز دنیا کی دس بہترین فورسز میں شامل - URDU.DAWN.COM


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## Icarus

Mercenary said:


> Maybe its just me but can someone explain why Pakistani Special Forces are not as muscular as their American or European counterparts? US Special Froces are ripped with bulging biceps, abs and other noticeable muscles.



Our training methodology rests on creating compact muscle with greater muscle strands per kilogram of body weight rather than create artificial bulk. Smaller but more dense muscles are more efficient as they need less nourishment which is ideal for a commando, it also suits our geography because less surface area in contact with sun means that a thinner person is less likely to get heat stroke.

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## Irfan Baloch

mughaljee said:


> *دنیا بھر میں ممالک اپنی افواج میں سپیشل آپریشنز فورسز کو تشکیل دیتی ہیں جن پر وہ فخر بھی کرتی ہیں مگر پاکستان کے لیے یہ بہت بڑا اعزاز ہے کہ اس کے خصوصی دستے کو دنیا کی دس بہترین فورسز میں شامل کرلیا گیا ہے۔*
> 
> *دنیا بھر کی مسلح افواج میں معتبر سمجھے جانے والے جریدے آرمڈ فورسز ہسٹری میوزیم نے دنیا کی دس بہترین سپیشل آپریشنز فورسزکی فہرست مرتب کی ہے جس میں پاکستان کا سپیشل سروسز گروپ نویں نمبر پر موجود ہے اور اس معاملے میں وہ اپنے پڑوسی اور روایتی حریف ہندوستان سے بہت آگے ہے جس کا نام بھی ٹاپ ٹین میں شامل نہیں۔*
> 
> *جریدے نے پاکستان سپیشل سروسز گروپ المعروف ایس ایس جی کو اس کی دس خصوصیات کی بناءپر اس اعزاز کا حقدار قرار دیا ہے۔*
> 
> *ان خصوصیات میں سپیشل آپریشنز، غیرروایتی حربی صلاحیت، فارن انٹرنل ڈیفینس، براہ راست ایکشن، مغویوں کو بازیاب کرانا، دہشتگردوں کے خلاف کارروائی اور خصوصی دیکھ بھال سمیت دیگر شامل ہیں۔*
> 
> *رپورٹ میں بتایا گیا ہے کہ پاکستان کا یہ خاص فوجی دستہ کافی حد تک امریکی فوج کے گرین بیرٹ اور برطانوی فوج کے ایس اے ایس سے مماثلت رکھتا ہے، اور یہ اکثر چین اور برطانیہ جیسے دیگر ممالک میں بھی تربیتی مشنز میں حصہ لیتا رہتا ہے۔*
> 
> *اس فہرست میں دنیا کی سب سے بہترین فورس برٹش ایس اے ایس کو قرار دیا گیا ہے، جس کے بعد امریکی نیوی سیل ٹیم سکس دوسرے، یوایس آرمی ڈیلٹا فورس تیسرے، اسرائیلی شیاٹی 13 چوتھے، جرمن جی ایس جی 9 پانچویں، پولش گروم چھٹے، فرنچ آرمی سپیل فورسز بریگیئڈ ساتویں، آسٹریا ایکو کوبرا آٹھویں، پاکستان نویں اور رشین اسپیٹسناز دسویں نمبر پر موجود ہے۔*
> پاکستانی کمانڈوز دنیا کی دس بہترین فورسز میں شامل - URDU.DAWN.COM


these rankings mean nothing
there are so many unknown variables. no two situations are same to gauge who is better.
it is a feel good comparison if your team appears there.
if the basic regime is tougher than the tough selection criteria then that is a good indicator. more you sweat in training less you bleed in battle.

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## fatman17

Irfan Baloch said:


> these rankings mean nothing
> there are so many unknown variables. no two situations are same to gauge who is better.
> it is a feel good comparison if your team appears there.
> if the basic regime is tougher than the tough selection criteria then that is a good indicator. more you sweat in training less you bleed in battle.


 
....and successful implementation of the training in actual battle.

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## Umair Nawaz

Aeronaut said:


> View attachment 40250


*Capt Akash Aftab Rabbani Shaheed* 4th CDR Yalghar battalion in his combat gear and assult riffle. (modified AK-47 or type 56)
Akash was basically an Airborne Trooper.

Pic Courtesy: Farhan Haider (a common friend) 




The man standing next to Akash and Smiling is me. This is one of mine and Akash's more recent pictures. I had shared this before but didnt introduced myself. @Akheilos

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## gangsta_rap

Rashid Mahmood said:


> Top Ten Special Operations Forces in the World



Why did they give a bunch of Polaks such a high rank?
What is this?


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## AUz

Talha Mateen said:


> How many SSGs does PA has???



Many battalions.

That is, many thousands.

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## fatman17

SSG is brigade strength.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Umair Nawaz said:


> *Capt Akash Aftab Rabbani Shaheed* 4th CDR Yalghar battalion in his combat gear and assult riffle. (modified AK-47 or type 56)
> Akash was basically an Airborne Trooper.
> 
> Pic Courtesy: Farhan Haider (a common friend)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The man standing next to Akash and Smiling is me. This is one of mine and Akash's more recent pictures. I had shared this before but didnt introduced myself. @Akheilos



Capt Bilal Shaheed Maryted in 2011?

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Capt Bilal Shaheed Maryted in 2011?
> View attachment 42700


Please share the detail off commandos off Rangers and FC


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> Please share the detail off commandos off Rangers and FC



You wont find much.. see previous pages you will find pics of RAGS n SOW..


@RAMPAGE here found the pic you asked me for:

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## Armstrong

Icarus said:


> Our training methodology rests on creating compact muscle with greater muscle strands per kilogram of body weight rather than create artificial bulk. Smaller but more dense muscles are more efficient as they need less nourishment which is ideal for a commando, it also suits our geography because less surface area in contact with sun means that a thinner person is less likely to get heat stroke.



Whats the expression for guys like these in Punjabi ?  

Kangriii Pehalwan !  

Well at least this explains why you came to the Office the other day with a broken rib when *Mrs.Icarus* decided to jump into your arms ! 

Having a 200 kg wife does that to a person !

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## Icarus

Armstrong said:


> Whats the expression for guys like these in Punjabi ?
> 
> Kangriii Pehalwan !
> 
> Well at least this explains why you came to the Office the other day with a broken rib when *Mrs.Icarus* decided to jump into your arms !
> 
> Having a 200 kg wife does that to a person !



I already told you that I am unmarried, perhaps that is why all my ribs are still intact.

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## Armstrong

Icarus said:


> I already told you that I am unmarried, perhaps that is why all my ribs are still intact.



You should've also added 'I've already told you that I'm humorless & intensely serious all the time that even a joke keeps itching at me unless I give a serious reply back to set the record straight that I'm, in this case, unmarried' !


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## Icarus

Armstrong said:


> You should've also added 'I've already told you that I'm humorless & intensely serious all the time that even a joke keeps itching at me unless I give a serious reply back to set the record straight that I'm, in this case, unmarried' !



I dread online humour, I am a much more laid back person in person but the screen filters all my humour out.

There I go again.

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## Kompromat

@Icarus l You need to wind down. We should take you to drink some badam wali bhang and make you do dhamal.

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## Reichmarshal

fatman17 said:


> SSG is brigade strength.



Brigade plus

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## Zarvan

fatman17 said:


> SSG is brigade strength.


Brigade differs Army to Army so here what you mean ?


----------



## Side-Winder

SSG have around 10 battalions = Around 10,000 Active personnel

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## acidwolf

Side-Winder said:


> SSG have around 10 battalions = Around 10,000 Active personnel


This has been discussed before. The idea is to have 3 brigades. The second brigade is still under strength and it will take sometime to expand. The approval is given to raise the third brigade.

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## Zarvan

acidwolf said:


> This has been discussed before. The idea is to have 3 brigades. The second brigade is still under strength and it will take sometime to expand. The approval is given to raise the third brigade.


And How do you know this ?


----------



## RAMPAGE

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @RAMPAGE here found the pic you asked me for:
> 
> View attachment 42701


Thanks!!!


----------



## Junaid Khosa

Irfan Baloch said:


> really need to work on the abs to make them look unreal.
> check out the picture of an American Navy SEAL who is gearing a Pakistani diver.. his arms are bigger than my thighs


I seen that pic bro i agree with that American Navy SEAL have huge bodies they do hard work out and they eat other stuff too well the look of this guy is different


----------



## fatman17

Special Forces 
The Special Services Group (SSG) is headquartered at Cherat and has a base at Attock. it is also responsible for the Airborne School at Peshawar. it consists of three battalions each of four companies.

Other SSG elements include:

Akbar Company (Combat Diver Unit)
Zarrar Company (Counter-terrorism)
Iqbal Company (Communications Unit)



Source: Pakistan Army Information

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*






M-4, flak jacket and kevlar helmet of Captain Salman Farooq who was shot and martyred by the criminals of Lal Masjid.*
*






SSG Operator providing security to head of states at Badshahi mosque.


*

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## Slides

We don't have 10,000 SSG. It's far lower.

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## Zarvan

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152476220329130


----------



## fatman17

Maj-Gen AO Mitha - SSG

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## S.Y.A

Side-Winder said:


> SSG have around 10 battalions = Around 10,000 Active personnel


a battalion typically has 800 men, so it will be `~8000 and not 10k.


----------



## Reichmarshal

The last time I checked all 10 battalions were not up to full strength.....reasons being PA n SSG in particular didn't want to cut any corners n compromise on quality just make up nos.
But that's couple of years ago

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## fatman17

Reichmarshal said:


> The last time I checked all 10 battalions were not up to full strength.....reasons being PA n SSG in particular didn't want to cut any corners n compromise on quality just make up nos.
> But that's couple of years ago


 
remains the same as qualification standards are quite rigid.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

A still from "Waar" movie 2013:


----------



## RAMPAGE

Aeronaut said:


> @Icarus l You need to wind down. We should take you to drink some badam wali bhang and make you do dhamal.


He needs a little _Dawai._

A_ Rizzla _perhaps !!!


----------



## syedali73

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *M-4, *flak jacket and kevlar helmet of Captain Salman Farooq who was shot and martyred by the criminals of Lal Masjid.


What happened to the M-4? I haven't seen rifles so badly damaged like this. Besides, please call them terrorists for calling them criminals lessens the severity of their crime i.e. mutiny.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

syedali73 said:


> What happened to the M-4? I haven't seen rifles so badly damaged like this. Besides, please call them terrorists for calling them criminals lessens the severity of their crime i.e. mutiny.


Dnt know bro... 

ThAts him :

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## razgriz19

Informant said:


> M4 > AK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are paid shit wages
> Daal khaenge muscke kahan se aenge?
> Genes have a play, white people are built and tall. Broad aswell. Their physique is better suited.
> Muscles dont make men.



ah actually daal is rich in protein, which is what you need to gain muscle. This is how all the vegetarians get their protein intake.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Capt Salman Farooq Lodhi shaheed .. SB







Embraced martyrdom in operation silence 2007

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## Informant

razgriz19 said:


> ah actually daal is rich in protein, which is what you need to gain muscle. This is how all the vegetarians get their protein intake.



You need Brotien through read meat. Or white meat aswell. Also Brotien powder. These lanky fellows however active just dont look the part. Plus our built isnt like the white guys, who have the genes with them in favor. 

We focus on strength and stamina rather than brute force. Well whities got the best of everything plus resources to chase secondary goals.


----------



## Jango

Once thing that I have especially noticed with the security details of COAS and CAS is that the COAS SSG operator most often has an M-4 or a Steyr Aug or Type-56, while SSW with the CAS has P-90 or F-2000.

Is this due to any specific operational requirements or it just because of no particular reason at all?

@Icarus, @Oscar, @fatman17, @blain2.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Air chiefs visit to smugli airbase... SSW guy with P-90.. As mentioned by fulcrum:

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## Icarus

Fulcrum15 said:


> Once thing that I have especially noticed with the security details of COAS and CAS is that the COAS SSG operator most often has an M-4 or a Steyr Aug or Type-56, while SSW with the CAS has P-90 or F-2000.
> 
> Is this due to any specific operational requirements or it just because of no particular reason at all?



For quick draw, accurate fire at close distances. In line with operational requirements. 
The armament between COAS and CAS guards differ because the forces have their own independent kotes and use weapons that they have.

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## syedali73

Informant said:


> You need Brotien through read meat. Or white meat aswell. Also Brotien powder. These lanky fellows however active just dont look the part. Plus our built isnt like the white guys, who have the genes with them in favor.
> 
> We focus on strength and stamina rather than brute force. Well whities got the best of everything plus resources to chase secondary goals.


Proteins can be obtained both through the meat and the lentils. However, advantage of using meat is, there are more proteins packed per gram of meat than the lentils, plus meat does not cause lots of bloating.

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## Jango

Icarus said:


> For quick draw, accurate fire at close distances. In line with operational requirements.



That's what I thought, but same requirement would be there for COAS.



> The armament between COAS and CAS guards differ because the forces have their own independent kotes and use weapons that they have.



But don't both of them have P-90's and F2000's?

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## Informant

syedali73 said:


> Proteins can be obtained both through the meat and the lentils. However, advantage of using meat is, there are more proteins packed per gram of meat than the lentils, plus meat does not cause lots of bloating.



Meat got Brotiens my man. All daal got is gas, the badboodar kind 

Namaz haram hojati hai daal kha ke.


----------



## syedali73

Informant said:


> Meat got Brotiens my man. All daal got is gas, the badboodar kind
> 
> Namaz haram hojati hai daal kha ke.


I am not aware of *B*rotein, but meat does contain *P*roteins, and yes, less gas compared to lentils. Though the production of gas (bloating) has lot to do with individual's normal flora, which varies from person to person.


----------



## amygdaloideum

Informant said:


> Meat got Brotiens my man. All daal got is gas, the badboodar kind
> 
> Namaz haram hojati hai daal kha ke.



try soyabean chunks,more protein per gm then meat


----------



## Informant

syedali73 said:


> I am not aware of *B*rotein, but meat does contain *P*roteins, and yes, less gas compared to lentils. Though the production of gas (bloating) has lot to do with individual's normal flora, which varies from person to person.



Ok uncle, mazaak ko ragard dia apne


----------



## Icarus

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Capt Salman Farooq Lodhi shaheed .. SB
> 
> View attachment 43582
> 
> 
> Embraced martyrdom in operation silence 2007





Fulcrum15 said:


> That's what I thought, but same requirement would be there for COAS.
> 
> 
> 
> But don't both of them have P-90's and F2000's?




The Army does but the PAF has better access to them because the soldier has better access to these novelty arms and has logged more training arms with them. The same are a rare luxury in the SSG and are not really adopted with the same kind of enthusiasm as the SSW because of their unorthodox shapes and limited training opportunities.

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## Informant

amygdaloideum said:


> try soyabean chunks,more protein per gm then meat


----------



## kobenhaven

@Umair Nawaz 
Are you sure this is you, the guy in blue jeans having sunglasses in his hands ? Referring to pic on page 64 post 960


----------



## Zarvan

Fulcrum15 said:


> Once thing that I have especially noticed with the security details of COAS and CAS is that the COAS SSG operator most often has an M-4 or a Steyr Aug or Type-56, while SSW with the CAS has P-90 or F-2000.
> 
> Is this due to any specific operational requirements or it just because of no particular reason at all?
> 
> @Icarus, @Oscar, @fatman17, @blain2.


Well I think its for no reason or most probably in which the SSG guy feels comfortable he picks so many times there are different Guns

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## Amaa'n

Fulcrum15 said:


> Once thing that I have especially noticed with the security details of COAS and CAS is that the COAS SSG operator most often has an M-4 or a Steyr Aug or Type-56, while SSW with the CAS has P-90 or F-2000.
> 
> Is this due to any specific operational requirements or it just because of no particular reason at all?


Sab se pehle tou ye ke, mujhe tag nhn kiya
Hazrat kiya ho gaya hai, itni se baat nhn samjh aye? .... As Icarus has said, Standard issued weapon to ssw is f2000 and P90, these guys spend more time with these weapons then AK variants, also given the small number of personnel, it was easy to procure more modernized weapon for them.....
SSG has a huge strength and train in different fields, and given their old tradition, they spend more time with AK and M4... Hence such is the case..... It matters more is what you are comfortable in handling, then what you should carry, if i feel more comfortable with a pdw i will carry that, as i have spent more time with that,

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## Side-Winder



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## Umair Nawaz

kobenhaven said:


> @Umair Nawaz
> Are you sure this is you, the guy in blue jeans having sunglasses in his hands ? Referring to pic on page 64 post 960


i rather suggest u to go visit the post again and read the last line carefully.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Side-Winder said:


> View attachment 44147



Nice pic ... Where is it from ? Some ex?


----------



## Side-Winder

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nice pic ... Where is it from ? Some ex?



I think it's a recent pic. somebody sent it on FB


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Side-Winder said:


> I think it's a recent pic. somebody sent it on FB


I know where you got it from .. Just wanted to know if I was from the operational areas.. Or some ex.


----------



## Side-Winder



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## Jango

Always shining in these pics, but if you come across some pics where a recce team is dug in for a long time or the combat has been long drawn, you could see the dirty hair and faces and the battle scars.

Salute to all these guys!

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## kobenhaven

Umair Nawaz said:


> i rather suggest u to go visit the post again and read the last line carefully.


 
I have seen all these pics and I am pretty sure that the pic with Akash where in you were claiming that the guy next to him in civilian dress is not you.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

kobenhaven said:


> I have seen all these pics and I am pretty sure that the pic with Akash where in you were claiming that the guy next to him in civilian dress is not you.



ok then goodluck.


----------



## senses

Latest SSG passing out parade


----------



## Slides

Reichmarshal said:


> The last time I checked all 10 battalions were not up to full strength.....reasons being PA n SSG in particular didn't want to cut any corners n compromise on quality just make up nos.
> But that's couple of years ago



We don't have 10 battalions of SSG.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

View attachment 44965







OLD Training pic







SSGN vintage training pic:

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## Donatello

What body armour do they use? In Pics it doesn't look like much.

@Icarus


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## Umair Nawaz

These operations/info are from Op. Zarb e Azb.

This is the roof of a double story building which belong to Famous terrorist Ilyas Kashmiri and his 313 brigade. During clearance it was a high value target for army as this building was used for training purpose by Ilyas Kashmiri's nephew and his followers. Capt Akash Rabbani leading his Combat Team captured this building forcing the terrorist to retreat leaving there weapons and ammonition and there other training facilities. in this pic Capt Akash standing with his Company commander and his commading Officer and briefing them about deployment of his troops in the building after clearance.

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## Umair Nawaz

Akash during Meeran Shah clearance.This building was located by Capt Akash full of IEDs and Under ground tunnels. on detail search Akash found that it is an IED factory where IEDs were made and were sent to different parts of Pakistan for Terrorist activities the vehicle behind was to be used for suicidal attacks on military convoy.

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## Neptune

No mercy to Taliban.

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## Umair Nawaz

Akash Briefing Shahzeb Khanzada journalist from Express News. after clearance the imp task of organizing and displaying the Recoveries to International Media and Pakistani Media was assigned to our unit Capt rabbani made the arrangements for whole night and worked hard with the soldier to classify the weapons and all other stuff and then we were able to present what we recoverd.... 







Capt Akash with his comrade during media visit to north Waziristan agency..

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## Icarus

Donatello said:


> What body armour do they use? In Pics it doesn't look like much.
> 
> @Icarus



Standard Issue Kevlar. Those are Bandoleers, not armour.


----------



## air marshal

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152426406757663

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## Zarvan

Some body please post pictures off Pakistan China commandos exercises taking place

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## dexter

*COAS meeting a Chinese soldier during his visit to PAK-China special forces joint field training exercise at Headquarters SSG near Cherat.*

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Kompromat

Zarrar - Ready to kick arse.






@Stealth

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## Stealth

Horus said:


> Zarrar - Ready to kick arse.
> 
> View attachment 48126
> 
> 
> @Stealth



Awesome Aero....  I will add Special forces pictures on iFW soon... add this one as well...

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## Rashid Mahmood

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=276051622605202

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## Inception-06

Rashid Mahmood said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=276051622605202



It shows the very hard and professional comabt battles of ourr SSG Force ! thx


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Source: Pakistan Military Multimedia | Page 212

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## DESERT FIGHTER




----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

*
View attachment 48528
*





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=811937842170157





*sexy video of Armed forces (All components)*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Havaldar Mustafa from the 7th Commando 'Babrum' Battalion (SSG) was martyred in a counter terrorist operation in North Waziristan during operation Zarb-e-Azb. He was leading an element of the Special Operations team to recover the infantry casualties from the combat zone. The terrorists had vowed not to allow the recovery of the Pakistan Army casualties, therefore a firefight erupted as the terrorists attacked the recovery team. Havaldar Mustafa responded to the pitched battle with courage and valor till he was martyred by a terrorist Sniper. His team mates notated the sheer bravery and high character of Havaldar Mustafa. We request our members to say a quiet prayer for him. May Allah (SWT) accept his youthful sacrifice and make Pakistan a nation it ought to be. Ameen.

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## ghazi52

May Allah (SWT) accept his sacrifice. Ameen.

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## Soldier-X



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## DESERT FIGHTER

cadet zain said:


> View attachment 48689



*regular troops patrolling near parliament...... not SSG..*


----------



## Soldier-X

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *regular troops patrolling near parliament...... not SSG..*


i know, i just want to
post this in both SF's & miltary photos


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

cadet zain said:


> i know, i just want to
> post this in both SF's & miltary photos



this is a SF thread not infantry or general mil multimedia thread.


----------



## Aamir Hussain

Gen. A.O. Mitha was the first commanding Officer of the SSG. A Memon from Bombay who migrated to Pakistan in 1947.
He set the standards for SSG. His book is a must read for all those who are interested in PA.

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## Windjammer

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=276051622605202

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## Irfan Baloch

Windjammer said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=276051622605202


the caption in the end really missed out the eyes of the editors
it reads "all characters in this video were real
*except *Capt Tariq Jamal.
Capt Tariq Jamal embraced shahadat on Aug 29, 2012...


what does it mean? Capt Jamal was unreal? fictional? seems like a type.


----------



## Windjammer

Irfan Baloch said:


> the caption in the end really missed out the eyes of the editors
> it reads "all characters in this video were real
> *except *Capt Tariq Jamal.
> Capt Tariq Jamal embraced shahadat on Aug 29, 2012...
> 
> 
> what does it mean? Capt Jamal was unreal? fictional? seems like a type.


I noticed that, but remember this footage was re enacted by all those who participated in the actual operation and obviously Capt Tariq had embraced shahadat then so his character was played by another person.


----------



## Irfan Baloch

Windjammer said:


> I noticed that, but remember this footage was re enacted by all those who participated in the actual operation and obviously Capt Tariq had embraced shahadat then so his character was played by another person.


makes sense .. should have been clearer though that Capt Tariq's role is played by an actor since he had died in the operation

thanks for explaining



Basel said:


> Also if we want to use 5.56 standard why M-4, M-16 or any of there variants from US?? there may be better and cheap option than that like Steyr Aug and others too.
> 
> Steyr AUG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> .
> Heckler & Koch G36 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> .
> Heckler & Koch HK416 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


special forces are limited in number and have very complex and more dangerous roles. no expense is spared in equipping and training them so "cheap option" is not an option 
but best choice in the market is adopted.
case in point. British SAS uses all American gear and weapons instead of its own standard issue SA80 rifle and gear.

5.56 is accurate and effective at short range so its good enough for CQB. even the 9mm MP5 is used for the same reason. you cant miss it and if the bullet hits the kill zone then the person is dead by the time he hits the ground.

that said. the carbine and assault rifles in the Western Europe are being redesigned to accommodate 7.62 round with improved accuracy, handling and recoil because the recent conflicts in middle east and Afghanistan have necessitated the need for 7.62 rounds in the situations where the enemy is hiding behind obstacles and wearing armor. 5.56 is perfect with there is clear field of fire and is in closer range. but an improved 7.62 carbine and assault rifle will do even a better job in taking out the enemy that is hiding behind brick walls or other urban clutter. .

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## Soldier-X



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## ghazi52

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Kompromat



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## Soldier-X



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## Soldier-X

from the shooting of new upcoming movie Yalgar


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

cadet zain said:


> i'll say hero with real heroes ...
> View attachment 109744



Yalgar or Waar 2?


----------



## Soldier-X

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yalgar or Waar 2?


Yalgar


----------



## Neptune

Horus said:


> View attachment 80884



Bro, that guy is a Maroon Beret operator from General Staff ÖKK 

The picture is taken in Gölbaşı province of Capital Ankara, at Special Forces HQ.


----------



## Kompromat

Neptune said:


> Bro, that guy is a Maroon Beret operator from General Staff ÖKK
> 
> The picture is taken in Gölbaşı province of Capital Ankara, at Special Forces HQ.



Australian SAS.


----------



## Soldier-X

here is another one from the shooting of movie Yalgar

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## Kompromat

@cadet zain - Blurring faces would be highly appreciated.


----------



## Jango

When is Yalgar coming out?

We've seen a flurry of Pak Army oriented films lately.

Waar, O-21, Yalgar, Waar2


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Another Yalghaar still:






(Infantry troops)

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## Soldier-X

Fulcrum15 said:


> When is Yalgar coming out?
> 
> We've seen a flurry of Pak Army oriented films lately.
> 
> Waar, O-21, Yalgar, Waar2


O-21 is just releasing the day after tomorrow on eid..dont know about yalgar and waar 2



Horus said:


> @cadet zain - Blurring faces would be highly appreciated.


ok got it ...i'll take care next time



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Another Yalghaar still:
> 
> View attachment 109779
> 
> 
> (Infantry troops)


from rahat fateh ali song?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

cadet zain said:


> O-21 is just releasing the day after tomorrow on eid..dont know about yalgar and waar 2
> 
> 
> ok got it ...i'll take care next time
> 
> 
> from rahat fateh ali song?



from Yalghaar fb page.


----------



## Kompromat



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## Soldier-X

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> from Yalghaar fb page.


i'm not sure but this looks like a snapshot from the video of rahat fateh ali song 'Sun Sakhiye'

dont we have any other hero ? i mean shaan in all these 4 movies mentioned above??
he got some bad reputation becuase of those gujjar typ of movies ..so he does'nt suit for these kind of movies....
should'nt we try some new guy?


----------



## Imran Khan



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Imran Khan said:


> View attachment 116752



Pic from an old ex in china..


----------



## Imran Khan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Pic from an old ex in china..


chian main kya khaya tha in logoon ne ?

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## Green Arrow

Some cool stuffs

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## Burhan Wani

Aamir Hussain said:


> Gen. A.O. Mitha was the first commanding Officer of the SSG. A Memon from Bombay who migrated to Pakistan in 1947.
> He set the standards for SSG. His book is a must read for all those who are interested in PA.


Yeh ohsum book that was "Unlikeley beginning "

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## Aamir Hussain

There are six battalions of SSG in place and are at full strength.


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## blain2

Slides said:


> We don't have 10 battalions of SSG.


Its almost 10 Battalions in terms of the orbat on paper and as per plans.

SSG is to have 3 brigades, each with 3 battalions and if you include the command, communications, ATT and SOS cadres, the numbers are close to having 10 battalions.

SSG is already operating with a divisional hq in place but less 2 battalions or so that are in the process of being raised.

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## django

blain2 said:


> Its almost 10 Battalions in terms of the orbat on paper and as per plans.
> 
> SSG is to have 3 brigades, each with 3 battalions and if you include the command, communications, ATT and SOS cadres, the numbers are close to having 10 battalions.
> 
> SSG is already operating with a divisional hq in place but less 2 battalions or so that are in the process of being raised.



blain sahib 
wont expanding the size of the ssg compromise the excellent standards already set, especially considering the limited budget we have at our disposal, 10 battalions seems way to large for a specialised force, its not like we are the usa with its astronomical defence budget.


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## nomi007

*secret weapon of ssg*
*Objective Individual Combat Weapon*
*




*


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## EL LOBO

These are some great pics...

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## Stealth



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## special

nomi007 said:


> *secret weapon of ssg*
> *Objective Individual Combat Weapon*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *



that is US soldier.. no pakistani... US didn't even sell that to any country...

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## Rana123

SSG is one of the best force of the world

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## Rana123

Today i read article in which there was world top 10 forces and SSG name was there but Indian force was name was not there
i was happy to see Pakistan SSG was under 10


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## Rana123

Must read this Interesting article in which *Pakistani SSG *name is in TOP 10 special forces of the world 
Top 10 Special Forces of the World - News Realities

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## Rana123

Slides said:


> We don't have 10 battalions of SSG.


we have 7 battalions not 10


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## Green Arrow

Who is leading the SSG now, any idea ?


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## Irfan Baloch

Rana123 said:


> Today i read article in which there was world top 10 forces and SSG name was there but Indian force was name was not there
> i was happy to see Pakistan SSG was under 10




Indian special forces are very resourceful, very up to date and they get to train with the best and have unrestricted access to technology and funds which we can only dream about. only 60 years ago they were our brothers so dont discount them too much.


those articles are a matter of opinion with limited knowledge and personal preferences.
special operations units are every countries covert weapon and their real capabilities are unknown.

such comparisons are flawed from the word go because essentially they are trying to compare and weight something which is unknown. even the amount spent on them is unknown, their training regime and their strength, their objectives etc are all estimations.

tomorrow an article will make people from Uganda and Afghanistan proud because their special forces will be among the first 5.

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## Irfan Baloch

Aamir Hussain said:


> Gen. A.O. Mitha was the first commanding Officer of the SSG. A Memon from Bombay who migrated to Pakistan in 1947.
> He set the standards for SSG. His book is a must read for all those who are interested in PA.


there was a name of another army officer as well who is also mentioned in the origin of Pakistani special forces and he was the first US Navy SEAL qualified but the SSG page on wikipedia is changed now. I think he was MAJOR Hassan Askari he was also mentioned side by side with the founder of SSG Gen Mitha.

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## Rana123

Green Arrow said:


> Who is leading the SSG now, any idea ?


you are asking current GOC SSG name ??


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## Green Arrow

Rana123 said:


> you are asking current GOC SSG name ??


Yes , who is the currently running the SSG?


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## Soldier-X

Yalghaar

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## nomi007



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## fatman17

Brig. TM. Shaheed.

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## ghazi52

fatman17 said:


> View attachment 157061
> 
> Brig. TM. Shaheed.


Salute.


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## Ray_of_Hope

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 154670


is this a styr aug with an under barrel grenade launcher?


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## krash

war khan said:


> is this a styr aug with an under barrel grenade launcher?



Its an FN F2000.


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## Falcon Striker

Sid said:


> They look rough and tough; but their performance has not been that outstanding as you would expect from an &#39;Elite&#39; unit.
> 
> Ofcourse they&#39;ve had successes (they are expected to carry out the more dangerous missions which is why they are &#39;elite&#39 but it is the failures that troubles me.
> 
> During previous wars with India, quite a few missions failed and I just hope they&#39;ve learned from their mistakes.
> 
> Cheers.


Aukai Collins also notes in his book,"My Jihad" That an incredible battle had taken place in 1987 when,the Soviet Army had inserted about three thousand,Spetsnaz aided paratroopers in an attempt to advance all the way to the Pakistani border.

About, three hundred Pakistani commandos (SSGs) teamed up with 100 mujaheddin and fought the Spetsnaz for twenty seven days; not a single Russian left the valley alive.
So what are your comments about Spetsnaz & SSG

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Pak-Turkiye-Afghan Joint Special Forces Ex:






























*

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Neptune

Pakistani Army SSG, from the Combined Special Forces Exercise at ÖKK Headquarters in capital Ankara.










@Abu Zolfiqar @Side-Winder @Horus @DESERT FIGHTER @fatman17 and others.

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## Neptune

Part 2:















Source: MP

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Neptune said:


> Pakistani Army SSG, from the Combined Special Forces Exercise at ÖKK Headquarters in capital Ankara.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Abu Zolfiqar @Side-Winder @Horus @DESERT FIGHTER @fatman17 and others.




The last 3 guys seem are Afghans...

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## Neptune

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The last 3 guys seem are Afghans...



Yeah. FYI, the guy at second pic wearing a coat with Turkish camo is also SSG.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Neptune said:


> Yeah. FYI, the guy at second pic wearing a coat with Turkish camo is also SSG.



Posted these here:

Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW. | Page 71


This thread is quiet outdated..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@Neptune

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*OLD pics of SSG 

















*

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## Abu Zolfiqar

Neptune said:


> Pakistani Army SSG, from the Combined Special Forces Exercise at ÖKK Headquarters in capital Ankara.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Abu Zolfiqar @Side-Winder @Horus @DESERT FIGHTER @fatman17 and others.



epic shot kanka

got more?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> epic shot kanka
> 
> got more?



Here bro:

Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW. | Page 71

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## fatman17

nice to see such trainings taking place. good learning experience for all.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

fatman17 said:


> nice to see such trainings taking place. good learning experience for all.



especially with the Turks, a time-tested ally

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## Kompromat



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Horus said:


> View attachment 163395


These guys are actors - Shaan and other guy from the new movie "Yalghar"...!

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## Amaa'n

Khyber One --

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## Amaa'n

Care to join forr dinner??

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## HAIDER



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## Koovie

Rana123 said:


> Today i read article in which there was world top 10 forces and SSG name was there but Indian force was name was not there
> i was happy to see Pakistan SSG was under 10




   

Now we are doomed

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## Kompromat

balixd said:


> Khyber One --



SSW on the left?


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## Umair Nawaz

Irfan Baloch said:


> Indian special forces are very resourceful, very up to date and they get to train with the best and have unrestricted access to technology and funds which we can only dream about. only 60 years ago they were our brothers so dont discount them too much.
> 
> 
> .


its not abt weaponry or access to tech or resources. Its more life how u used yr weapons in yr tactics. In the LIC situations its all abt that. Its something yr friend from the SSG also tried to explain and called it 4th generation warfare!

A force may have the best of the weapons or tech the world would know. But if it doesnt know how to use them in tactics of such operations its failed. USA in Iraq is a clear example. Specially in early days where they failed to tackle almost everything after capturing Baghdad. And this all comes with experience and a diverse and up to date knowledge of area and its people.

Indian MARCOS, NSA or any other lack in this field decisively against any leading force in the planet. Because this all mentioned above comes from experience and in that SSG is on per with Israelis or Americans or the English. Indians certainly are no where in the picture. If u dont belive me then check how poorly they tacked the dec 5 attacks. 4 in 11 hrs. with Resistance finishing with a kill ratio of 3 or 4:11!

Their fighting capability is still very poor (comparing their SF performance from 2008's Mumbai to dec 2014) compared with high standards of SSG in this new 4th gen warfare.



nomi007 said:


> View attachment 154670


SSW not SSG.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Umair Nawaz said:


> its not abt weaponry or access to tech or resources. Its more life how u used yr weapons in yr tactics. In the LIC situations its all abt that. Its something yr friend from the SSG also tried to explain and called it 4th generation warfare!
> 
> A force may have the best of the weapons or tech the world would know. But if it doesnt know how to use them in tactics of such operations its failed. USA in Iraq is a clear example. Specially in early days where they failed to tackle almost everything after capturing Baghdad. And this all comes with experience and a diverse and up to date knowledge of area and its people.
> 
> Indian MARCOS, NSA or any other lack in this field decisively against any leading force in the planet. Because this all mentioned above comes from experience and in that SSG is on per with Israelis or Americans or the English. Indians certainly are no where in the picture. If u dont belive me then check how poorly they tacked the dec 5 attacks. 4 in 11 hrs. with Resistance finishing with a kill ratio of 3 or 4:11!
> 
> Their fighting capability is still very poor (comparing their SF performance from 2008's Mumbai to dec 2014) compared with high standards of SSG in this new 4th gen warfare.
> 
> 
> SSW not SSG.



I dont post in this thread intentionally but when something as stupid as this guy comes again and again then i cant help it.

Lets talk about experience.The Indian SF started their successful operations from 65 when they destroyed PA batteries crossing the LOC in Kashmir to the famous air drop near Dacca.Till then they were used in conventional operations until Operation Bluestar where they faced CI for the first time which dates back to 1984.When your SF had no idea about CI ops.

Indian SF then formed NSG (this so called expert calls NSG a NSA) and did a few more CI operations in Punjab.

In late 1987 the Army and Navy SF were sent to Sri Lanka where they had a good run and developed new techniques and were the most feared by LTTE.Still in the time doing more operations and gaining more experience than your SSG with all due respect.

Indian Peace Keeping Force returned but the Indian SF had no rest as the Kashmir conflict waited.Camps inside deep forests needed to be cleared and the SF used the same tactics learned in Sri Lanka to grab a upper hand.Since then the SF has been involved in Kashmir so much so that it is burdened with ops in Kashmir.

In the Northeast where we are active since 1960 the SF had to counter guerilla warriors which lead to the formation of the best school in jungle warfare named CIJWS.

Then came the attack on a Gujrat temple and 26/11 among various other rescue operation which the NSG handled.

Marcos has been active in the Gulf of Aden and Kashmir plus they were active in Maldives and Sri Lanka.

So now i ask..how are we inexperienced?

Just because you are fighting the taliban for 7 odd years makes you no hero.We have been more active than you in the past and we still are active in Kashmir and North East.

Our SF trains with everyone from the Israelis to SEALs to GSG9 and everyone respects them.If you dont trust me then youtube is your buddy.

And guys lastly..i want to say something indirectly...our SF have been pinned down once or twice in our glorious history...but our men dont surrender.

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## Amaa'n

Horus said:


> SSW on the left?


Why would you say so???
Both are SSG, clearence op in the area, and then set up a new OP


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## Umair Nawaz

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> *I dont post in this thread intentionally but when something as stupid as this guy comes again and again then i cant help it.*
> 
> Lets talk about experience.The Indian SF started their successful operations from 65 when they destroyed PA batteries crossing the LOC in Kashmir to the famous air drop near Dacca.Till then they were used in conventional operations until Operation Bluestar where they faced CI for the first time which dates back to 1984.When your SF had no idea about CI ops.
> .


lol u indian cartoon. it was better if u continued yr tradition of not posting in such threads whom u still lack the knowledge, specially tactical one! We are talking abt LIC situations which stands for Low Intensity Conflicts where an enemy comes up suddenly and unexpectedly. When yr forces were fighting the CI ops we had already fought them in East Pak in 71 and after just 6 years we were instrumental to make a best fighting force that took out soviats and were involved in low intensity conflicts in and out of our country since 1977 to 1989. 

What we are talking abt is the 4th generation warfare u dont have the experience and necessary know how of it viz a viz us. Yes u have done good job in patches and i give u credit for that but u cant realistically come in terms with us in that who have an almost non stop experience in this since 70s. Hint; read irfan baloch's interview with SSG officer for more info. Hope u got the point. Goodbye.

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## hkdas

Umair Nawaz said:


> lol u indian cartoon. it was better if u continued yr tradition of not posting in such threads whom u still lack the knowledge, specially tactical one! We are talking abt LIC situations which stands for Low Intensity Conflicts where an enemy comes up suddenly and unexpectedly. When yr forces were fighting the CI ops we had already fought them in East Pak in 71 and after just 6 years we were instrumental to make a best fighting force that took out soviats and were involved in low intensity conflicts in and out of our country since 1977 to 1989. So dont talk abt something u have little to now idea.
> 
> What we are talking abt is the 4th generation warfare u dont have the experience and necessary know how of it viz a viz us. Yes u have done good job in patches and i give u credit for that but u cant realistically come in terms with us in that who have an almost non stop experience in this since 70s. Hint; read irfan baloch's interview with SSG officer for more info. Hope u got the point. Goodbye.



are you a brainless creature ?? what make you think that we don't have any experience in 4th gen warfare?? you 1st learn what is 4th gen warefare:
Fourth-generation warfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you said you fight CT in East pakistan.. did you win that fight?? NO. you not only failed by you had shamelessly surrender. One last thing, you said you are fighting a 4th gen warfare.. for your kind information, you are fighting a CI in a conventional war by carpet bombing that area before putting boots on the ground. PA is even not allowed media in that area so that they can hide the civilian casualties. you are fighting with US help, without US Pakistan can't even think of winning that war. billions of $ worth of equipment are given by US as military aid to fight the war.
unlike pakistan india is fighting 4gen warfare alone against an enemy with full backing of pakistan.

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## zeeshanvita




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## Rajput Warrior



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## Bratva




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## Reichmarshal

zeeshanvita said:


> View attachment 176345



He's still holding his side arm n his finger is still on the triger, alert even though he is injured


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## Leviza

Reichmarshal said:


> He's still holding his side arm n his finger is still on the triger, alert even though he is injured


That is the training my friend. they are always aware of the situation.


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## ghazi52




----------



## Rajput Warrior

Horus said:


> Two SSGs KIA in Peshawar. RIP



They were not from SSG but AMC (medical corps) they embraced shahadat when talibitches attacked the auditorium where they were holding lessons on first aid.



Horus said:


> Two SSGs KIA in Peshawar. RIP



They were not from SSG but AMC (medical corps) they embraced shahadat when talibitches attacked the auditorium where they were holding lessons on first aid.


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## blain2

Green Arrow said:


> Who is leading the SSG now, any idea ?


Maj Gen Abid Rafiq.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Horus said:


> MOD reported two SSG KIA.



No, actually he is right..... only casualities were from AMC who were giving lectures at the auditorium although 3 SSG were injured... one Capt is still fightin death please pray for him.

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## blain2

Excuse me for saying, but the picture on top is someone wanting to look like an SSG officer. Lots of interesting yet non-standard accoutrements in the getup.

The second picture is a bloody waste of space and Pakistani taxpayer's money. That useless chap went on this state funded trip and not one productive thing came out of the trip except shopping bags from Paris for family and friends. This is how and why we are in such a dismal state when it comes to capacity building within Interior ministry for anti-terrorism efforts.

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## blain2

Combined 7 SSG personnel were injured including 3 officers, 2 recovering well and 1 still in a serious state. May these boys recover quickly and completely ameen. This nation owes them a debt of immense gratitude.



blain2 said:


> Combined 7 SSG personnel were injured including 3 officers, 2 recovering well and 1 still in a serious state. May these boys recover quickly and completely ameen. This nation owes them a debt of immense gratitude.


I agree with DF and Rajput about the Shaheeds being AMC troops. People may have been confused by the red berets on the coffins of the two jawans of the AMC.

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## Irfan Baloch

blain2 said:


> Excuse me for saying, but the picture on top is someone wanting to look like an SSG officer. Lots of interesting yet non-standard accoutrements in the getup.
> 
> The second picture is a bloody waste of space and Pakistani taxpayer's money. That useless chap went on this state funded trip and not one productive thing came out of the trip except shopping bags from Paris for family and friends. This is how and why we are in such a dismal state when it comes to capacity building within Interior ministry for anti-terrorism efforts.


Re top pic wrong gun and wrong wings emblem
Thats for standard para course 
SSG has a dagger instead of a parachute with wings up are most obvious errors in addition to cap snd face Paint

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## viper46

awesomandary


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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## rockstar08

anyone help please ...

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Operation Rah e Rast -- Swat Valley (2007)







Chillaxing!

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## Kompromat

Yara at least blur their faces.


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## EL LOBO

some zalim pcs


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## ghazi52

Great Pictures...............

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Horus said:


> Yara at least blur their faces.



Done.!

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## Kompromat

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Done.!



LunaPic | Free Online Photo Editor | Use this

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## DESERT FIGHTER




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## rockstar08

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Done.!



i share a pic , above ,can you tell me what is that on M4A1 ?? i put it in red circle ..


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## Bratva

rockstar08 said:


> i share a pic , above ,can you tell me what is that on M4A1 ?? i put it in red circle ..



Red dot sight plus flash light

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## rockstar08

Bratva said:


> Red dot sight plus flash light



thanks Buddy


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## DESERT FIGHTER

rockstar08 said:


> i share a pic , above ,can you tell me what is that on M4A1 ?? i put it in red circle ..



thats a laser device... you will find alot of such mods on SSG weapons.. on the previous pics... its not a very clear pic so i cant identify which one it exactly is... but looks like DBAL-A2 dual laser pointer... could be a AN/PEC series target pointer (illuminator) as well..

It seems you noticed it for the first time? haha



Bratva said:


> Red dot sight plus flash light



emm.. nope

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## Amaa'n

A Friend joined SSG two days ago... 1st commando Yaldram....

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## rockstar08

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> thats a laser device... you will find alot of such mods on SSG weapons.. on the previous pics... its not a very clear pic so i cant identify which one it exactly is... but looks like DBAL-A2 dual laser pointer... could be a AN/PEC series target pointer (illuminator) as well..
> 
> It seems you noticed it for the first time? haha
> 
> 
> 
> emm.. nope
> 
> View attachment 181271
> View attachment 181272



well i noticed it many times ,but feel ashamed to ask lol .cause this seems to be very common 
anyway thanks

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## DESERT FIGHTER

rockstar08 said:


> well i noticed it many times ,but feel ashamed to ask lol .cause this seems to be very common
> anyway thanks



 lalay not a big issue... we all learn something every day..

There are two more examples from just the last page:

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## rockstar08

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> lalay not a big issue... we all learn something every day..



yeah i learn a lot on PDF , specially about Military hardware and Equipment ....
well if i ever wanted to buy a Gun that will be M4A1 , damn it looks so beautiful .. 

do you know that which company of SSG used this weapon ? 
i see many times in New that SSG is using different guns .

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## Bratva

balixd said:


> A Friend joined SSG two days ago... 1st commando Yaldram....



What's the training period for joining SSG, 6 or 12 months ?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Bratva said:


> What's the training period for joining SSG, 6 or 12 months ?



Trust me its not 6 months..  thts an year... in hell..



rockstar08 said:


> yeah i learn a lot on PDF , specially about Military hardware and Equipment ....
> well if i ever wanted to buy a Gun that will be M4A1 , damn it looks so beautiful ..
> 
> do you know that which company of SSG used this weapon ?
> i see many times in New that SSG is using different guns .



Doesnt depend on the company ... everything is available to them but it depends more on the operations..


On Topic;... here is a very old training pic:

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## rockstar08

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Trust me its not 6 months..  thts an year... in hell..
> 
> 
> 
> Doesnt depend on the company ... everything is available to them but it depends more on the operations..
> 
> 
> On Topic;... here is a very old training pic:
> 
> View attachment 181301



so basically they choose weapons according to the operation they are into right ?? 
ok i got it .. 
and yeah i heard that too SSG training is tough , that is why only few selected and become Commando ..

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## blain2

Bratva said:


> What's the training period for joining SSG, 6 or 12 months ?


4 months for the Basic SSG qualification course for all ranks who get through the selection process and then another 4 months for advanced course. Trainees need to be fully para qualified with 6 jumps before you can complete the basic course. There is additional training for those opting for SOTF (Air Assault), Anti Terrorism, Combat Diver etc. types of roles.

Weapon selection is simply based on who is going on the operation and what weapon they are qualified/trained on and get issued. All of these decisions about weapons, ordnance etc. are made by the mission planners themselves based on the type of mission assigned to them.

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## Amaa'n

Already answered.... Hope that was enough


Bratva said:


> What's the training period for joining SSG, 6 or 12 months ?


----------



## 1000

group of foreigners (iraq) completed the ssg course

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## firestorm77

Saw this awesome video of SSG(N) training & exercises.

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## PakArmyFTW

firestorm77 said:


> Saw this awesome video of SSG(N) training & exercises.


Good video but what's up with the retarded music?


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## fatman17

TE="1000, post: 6623987, member: 157213"]group of foreigners (iraq) completed the ssg course









[/QUOTE]
dDon't mess with these guys!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

firestorm77 said:


> Saw this awesome video of SSG(N) training & exercises.



This is from "We are soldiers" program (2008-09).. too bad it was pulled off air...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Iraqi commandos graduate - Congrats n good luck to them.. may they serve their nation with courage and honour!










@1000 you should post these pics here brother.. that thread is outdated... *

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## thrilainmanila

blain2 said:


> 4 months for the Basic SSG qualification course for all ranks who get through the selection process and then another 4 months for advanced course. Trainees need to be fully para qualified with 6 jumps before you can complete the basic course. There is additional training for those opting for SOTF (Air Assault), Anti Terrorism, Combat Diver etc. types of roles.
> 
> Weapon selection is simply based on who is going on the operation and what weapon they are qualified/trained on and get issued. All of these decisions about weapons, ordnance etc. are made by the mission planners themselves based on the type of mission assigned to them.


whats the typical drop out rate, and on a side note, the SSG seems to be very well equipped with a modern array of weaponry, our guys have first hand experience dealing with terrorism etc, and we train alongside the top spec ops around the world but why are they so many casualties in operations when it comes to our SSG? other spec ops are able to minimise the casualty rates.

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## Reddawn

blain2 said:


> 4 months for the Basic SSG qualification course for all ranks who get through the selection process and then another 4 months for advanced course. Trainees need to be fully para qualified with 6 jumps before you can complete the basic course. There is additional training for those opting for SOTF (Air Assault), Anti Terrorism, Combat Diver etc. types of roles.
> 
> Weapon selection is simply based on who is going on the operation and what weapon they are qualified/trained on and get issued. All of these decisions about weapons, ordnance etc. are made by the mission planners themselves based on the type of mission assigned to them.



Blain am I correct in stating that SOTF operates out of Tarbela?

I was led to believe that the SOTF is actually the helos and aircrew dedicated to air assault missions. Is this incorrect? If the SOTF are the actual operators trained in air assault then is there a dedicated helo plus air crew component or does the PA rotate men and machines from other squadrons?

Finally is the intention to eventually convert the SOTF into an airborne assault brigade like the British Paras etc or will it continue to remain the preserve of the SSG?


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## M.Ajwad

Assalam u Aliakum!
Can a gdmo(general duty medical offocer) be inducted in SSG course?


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## Rafi

Reddawn said:


> Blain am I correct in stating that SOTF operates out of Tarbela?
> 
> I was led to believe that the SOTF is actually the helos and aircrew dedicated to air assault missions. Is this incorrect? If the SOTF are the actual operators trained in air assault then is there a dedicated helo plus air crew component or does the PA rotate men and machines from other squadrons?
> 
> Finally is the intention to eventually convert the SOTF into an airborne assault brigade like the British Paras etc or will it continue to remain the preserve of the SSG?



SSG has multiple specialties, but it would be a waste to use them as specialized infantry - the newly raised multiple LCB's will be doing the "US Ranger" type missions - leaving the SSG as a true covert specialized force.

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## Reddawn

Rafi said:


> SSG has multiple specialties, but it would be a waste to use them as specialized infantry - the newly raised multiple LCB's will be doing the "US Ranger" type missions - leaving the SSG as a true covert specialized force.



Yes but what exactly is the SOTF then? Is it the aviation element or the operator element or both?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Rafi said:


> SSG has multiple specialties, but it would be a waste to use them as specialized infantry - the newly raised multiple LCB's will be doing the "US Ranger" type missions - leaving the SSG as a true covert specialized force.



Each Corps has raised a battalion of LCB....

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## rockstar08

Yaar i really want to dress-up like a SSG Commando  with all their Gears , and take .. that would be cool

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## PakArmyFTW



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## Bratva

New gun in SSG armory






Credits: @skybolt

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## Kompromat

Over a period of few months, i have put together a detailed report on Pakistan's premier Special Ops unit known as the Special Services Group (SSG) which is also known as the 'Black Storks'. It took me a long time to find and detail data for this study. I hope you guys will enjoy it. Best Regards - Horus.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Bratva said:


> New gun in SSG armory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Credits: @skybolt




@sandy_3126 @jhungary Which AR variant is this?


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## Umair Nawaz

Sage said:


> Gran Mosque Seizure .....? SSG role in that is believed to be a rumor ...unless someone prove it with some solid proofs ...!


its true....Mushy was the CO of the SSG team which took the operation. It was done under his command.


----------



## MilSpec

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @sandy_3126 Which AR variant is this?
> 
> Part of me thinks these guys are from Special Operations Wing - Frontier Corps Baluchistan:
> 
> View attachment 187135


Not sure man. the only long barrel ar I know of in service is M110


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## Sage

Umair Nawaz said:


> its true....Mushy was the CO of the SSG team which took the operation. It was done under his command.


Nope ...Mush never wrote such thing in his book ....though he has mentioned the rest of the operations of which he was a part of ....Your only source is the wikilink I am sure !


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## rockstar08

@Horus do we have special sniper team in SSG ?? 
do you have any pics of the team ?


----------



## EL LOBO

@IADnews

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## DESERT FIGHTER

sandy_3126 said:


> Not sure man. the only long barrel ar I know of in service is M110



I was talking about the smaller carbine type variant...the guy in front is holding... the weapon held by the person behind is almost unidentifiable...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Horus said:


> Battlefield Marshal Arts - Elements of Karate, KFU, Brazilian Jujitsu and now Krav Maga.



Krav Maga has been in use since long ... our own @RescueRanger is an instructor (and not just for krav maga)... training the police and police commandos..

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## Sage

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Krav Maga has been in use since long ... our own @RescueRanger is an instructor (and not just for krav maga)... training the police and police commandos..


Why there is no picture available ...? what see every time is that they Practice Thaikuando ...I have seen it personally as well ...there was no Krav Maga !


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## Umair Nawaz

Sage said:


> Nope ...Mush never wrote such thing in his book ....though he has mentioned the rest of the operations of which he was a part of ....Your only source is the wikilink I am sure !


How about i tell u that im from an army background myself.

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## Sage

Umair Nawaz said:


> How about i tell u that im from an army background myself.


How about I ask you again for a valid proof ?

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## Providence

Sage said:


> What is your proof for Krav Maga in the SSG ? Aren't they still practicing ThaiKuando ?



Krav Maga is actually an evolved version of a combination of arts and mainly focussed towards close encounter combat !

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## Umair Nawaz

Sage said:


> How about I ask you again for a valid proof ?


There no such thing as proof of military ops related to SSG. BTW do u have a proof of France's involvement in it?

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## Sage

Providence said:


> Krav Maga is actually an evolved version of a combination of arts and mainly focussed towards close encounter combat !


That I do understand my friend ....adopted by both IDF and GIGN ....it is very practical ..I do admire it !

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## Thəorətic Muslim

Sage said:


> That I do understand my friend ....adopted by both IDF and GIGN ....it is very practical ..I do admire it !



Adopted by many Law Enforcement Teams, Military, and the common lady who wants to learn 1,000 way to rip off a man's testicles. 

However, civilians are given a watered-down version than the Military.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@Horus you are like an older brother to me.. hence dont take offence.. but you can correct some info in the article.. starting with the weapons in service,details of ex with foriegn troops,some operations and even the training & foriegn deputations...

AUG for example has been in service since over a decade.
MGs in service.
AK series in service.
Grenade Launchers.
M-4 variants.
Sig rifles

FN handguns
Beretta

etc etc
SVD is almost none to limited in numbers in service even with the Army... except for the Paramilitary forces..


Accuracy International snipers - different variants/models in service.
FN2000
M249 MGs
Russian PKM MGs
MG3s

etc etc


And some components of French FELIN system etc.

HAHO & HALO arent new to SSG and have been used since the 60s... you can find vintage pics...


The (Joint Pak-Turk annual) ex conducted in Pak is called Jinnah.. the one in Turkey is called Attaturk.


YouYi with China is also held annually...

SSG still have strong presence in arab countries.... (can find several pics of them training our comrades in the relative threads)

They have been deputed in many countries apart from M.E ...

They have trained M.E (i,e Saudis,UAE,Jordanians,even Syrians and Palestinians in the past etc),Several African republics..etc.

SSG during Zias regime not only trained but initiated the training set up (to an extent that even the place to establish the facilities were chosen by SSG) the Sri Lankan Army SF.

High Altitude Mountain Wafare School is in Rattu (which is near Astore) Gilgit Baltistan ... and NOT in mansehra KPK.. and so on!



*There are many inaccuracies in this piece.. I can point some more.. but i will leave that to the experts @Irfan Baloch @RescueRanger @blain2 @Xeric @Rashid Mahmood*



Sage said:


> Why there is no picture available ...? what see every time is that they Practice Thaikuando ...I have seen it personally as well ...there was no Krav Maga !



The ones you see are army troops... practising Taewando ...


As for Krav Maga .. i quoted an expert...

P.S: This article has many inaccuracies...

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## Kompromat

@DESERT FIGHTER

Okay i'll look into it. I tried my best to authenticate this info from SSG sources. I'll go through it again.

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## Sage

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @Horus you are like an older brother to me.. hence dont take offence.. but you can correct some info in the article.. starting with the weapons in service,details of ex with foriegn troops,some operations and even the training & foriegn deputations...
> 
> AUG for example has been in service since over a decade.
> MGs in service.
> AK series in service.
> Grenade Launchers.
> M-4 variants.
> Sig rifles
> 
> FN handguns
> Beretta
> 
> etc etc
> SVD is almost none to limited in numbers in service even with the Army... except for the Paramilitary forces..
> 
> 
> Accuracy International snipers - different variants/models in service.
> FN2000
> M249 MGs
> Russian PKM MGs
> MG3s
> 
> etc etc
> 
> 
> And some components of French FELIN system etc.
> 
> HAHO & HALO arent new to SSG and have been used since the 60s... you can finds vintage pics...
> 
> 
> The (Joint Pak-Turk annual) ex conducted in Pak is called Jinnah.. the one in Turkey is called Attaturk.
> 
> They have been deputed in many countries apart from M.E ...
> 
> They have trained M.E (i,e Saudis,UAE,Jordanians,even Syrians and Palestinians in the past etc),Several African republics..etc.
> 
> SSG during Zias regime not only trained but initiated the training set up (to an extent that even the place to establish the facilities were chosen by SSG) the Sri Lankan Army SF.
> 
> High Altitude Wafare School is in Rattu (which is near Astore) Gilgit Baltistan ... and NOT in mansehra KPK.. and so on!
> 
> 
> 
> There are many inaccuracies in this piece.. @Irfan Baloch @RescueRanger @blain2 @Xeric
> 
> 
> 
> The ones you see are army troops... practising Taewando ...
> 
> 
> As for Krav Maga .. i quoted an expert...
> 
> P.S: This article has many inaccuracies...


No ...I have seen the SSG guys undergoing Taikuando ...I have seen them both in Cherat and Attock ...and AUG was adopted first by the SSGN and ASF ....Your corrections are up to the mark....!


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Sage said:


> No ...I have seen the SSG guys undergoing Taikuando ...I have seen them both in Cherat and Attock ...and AUG was adopted first by the SSGN and ASF ....Your corrections are up to the mark....!



AUG has been in service since friggin ages with the SSG,aswell as the SSGN.. even god damn police has them in large numbers....... yes TWD is in use with the SSG aswell..

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## Shotgunner51

Horus said:


>



Glad to see this, good work bro

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## Irfan Baloch

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @Horus you are like an older brother to me.. hence dont take offence.. but you can correct some info in the article.. starting with the weapons in service,details of ex with foriegn troops,some operations and even the training & foriegn deputations...
> 
> AUG for example has been in service since over a decade.
> MGs in service.
> AK series in service.
> Grenade Launchers.
> M-4 variants.
> Sig rifles
> 
> FN handguns
> Beretta
> 
> etc etc
> SVD is almost none to limited in numbers in service even with the Army... except for the Paramilitary forces..
> 
> 
> Accuracy International snipers - different variants/models in service.
> FN2000
> M249 MGs
> Russian PKM MGs
> MG3s
> 
> etc etc
> 
> 
> And some components of French FELIN system etc.
> 
> HAHO & HALO arent new to SSG and have been used since the 60s... you can find vintage pics...
> 
> 
> The (Joint Pak-Turk annual) ex conducted in Pak is called Jinnah.. the one in Turkey is called Attaturk.
> 
> 
> YouYi with China is also held annually...
> 
> SSG still have strong presence in arab countries.... (can find several pics of them training our comrades in the relative threads)
> 
> They have been deputed in many countries apart from M.E ...
> 
> They have trained M.E (i,e Saudis,UAE,Jordanians,even Syrians and Palestinians in the past etc),Several African republics..etc.
> 
> SSG during Zias regime not only trained but initiated the training set up (to an extent that even the place to establish the facilities were chosen by SSG) the Sri Lankan Army SF.
> 
> High Altitude Mountain Wafare School is in Rattu (which is near Astore) Gilgit Baltistan ... and NOT in mansehra KPK.. and so on!
> 
> 
> 
> There are many inaccuracies in this piece.. I can point some more.. but i will leave that to the experts @Irfan Baloch @RescueRanger @blain2 @Xeric @Rashid Mahmood
> 
> 
> 
> The ones you see are army troops... practising Taewando ...
> 
> 
> As for Krav Maga .. i quoted an expert...
> 
> P.S: This article has many inaccuracies...


thanks for checking , my information is outdated and second hand now. SSG guys I know are either retired or are busy hunting the TTP and dont want to be contacted.
writing such extensive article is very exhausting. I myself made some mistakes re mortar fire in my article.

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## Green Arrow

Amazing Job Horus. Thanks for this informative thread


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Irfan Baloch said:


> thanks for checking , my information is outdated and second hand now. SSG guys I know are either retired or are busy hunting the TTP and dont want to be contacted.
> writing such extensive article is very exhausting. I myself made some mistakes re mortar fire in my article.



Still sir... being a former military man? i suppose you can guide horus or others on the basic stuff.. like weapons,training,some missions.. or atleast about the locations of military facilities like High Altitude Mountain Warfare School ,Rattu and so on?

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## Providence

Thəorətic Muslim said:


> Adopted by many Law Enforcement Teams, Military, and the common lady who wants to learn 1,000 way to rip off a man's testicles.
> 
> However, civilians are given a watered-down version than the Military.



There is nothing like watered down version. If you want to learn and there are properly trained instructors available, you can definitely acquire the art.


----------



## Irfan Baloch

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Still sir... being a former military man? i suppose you can guide horus or others on the basic stuff.. like weapons,training,some missions.. or atleast about the locations of military facilities like High Altitude Mountain Warfare School ,Rattu and so on?


I know .. that , Horus should kick himself for few obvious mistakes and not sharing the proof reading with some of us. the effort is top notch by the way if he has any energy left then he should make changes and repost those pages again



Providence said:


> There is nothing like watered down version. If you want to learn and there are properly trained instructors available, you can definitely acquire the art.


he means not teaching the five point palm exploding heart technique to everyone

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## Stephen Cohen

@Horus 

You have missed narrating the SSG role in Siachen conflict

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## TOPGUN

What a outstanding job done by Horus , thx brother for doing such a good job loved it .

Off topic ...I would really like someone to give a story of our PA Cobra gunship pilots and crew not much info nor credit is out there to be given to them can someone ?

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## Kompromat

TOPGUN said:


> What a outstanding job done by Horus , thx brother for doing such a good job loved it .
> 
> Off topic ...I would really like someone to give a story of our PA Cobra gunship pilots and crew not much info nor credit is out there to be given to them can someone ?



Maybe @Irfan Baloch and i can do an interview with a Cobra rider?



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> AUG has been in service since friggin ages with the SSG,aswell as the SSGN.. even god damn police has them in large numbers....... yes TWD is in use with the SSG aswell..



Can you make a detailed list of what you want to add into this and email me? - I am going to do the editing and republish it. Once its refined im going to place the ebook online for free.

aeronaut@defence.pk

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## Umair Nawaz

Shotgunner51 said:


> From PLA's perspective, most developments have been focused on space, air, cyber and naval warfare in recent years, little attention has been placed on *ground warfare* (though the Armed Police force 武警 has done some). It would be useful for SSG to help share valuable experience with PLA as well as China's defense industry so that both PLA and SSG can get trained and equipped better for future challenges in ground warfare especially low-intensity light-infantry tactics.


What is the name of Chinese Special Forces?


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## Shotgunner51

Till now there is no single establishment that can be categorized as special forces in PLA army, instead similar to USMC force recon, the light infantry that carry out special op missions are usually the force recon units attached to various army divisions/corps. I do think in the future PLA needs single establishment of special forces, only till then I can tell you the name bro.

In China armed police (武警) there is a central unit named Snow Leopard (雪豹) dedicated for anti-terror operations. But note it is not a PLA unit.

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## Ray_of_Hope

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> AUG has been in service since friggin ages with the SSG,aswell as the SSGN.. even god damn police has them in large numbers....... yes TWD is in use with the SSG aswell..


The frontier constabulary also has AUG.I saw it personaly


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## DESERT FIGHTER

war khan said:


> The frontier constabulary also has AUG.I saw it personaly



Everybody has AUG its one of widespread use among all military forces and LEA's.

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## Irfan Baloch

Horus said:


> Maybe @Irfan Baloch and i can do an interview with a Cobra rider?
> 
> 
> 
> Can you make a detailed list of what you want to add into this and email me? - I am going to do the editing and republish it. Once its refined im going to place the ebook online for free.
> 
> aeronaut@defence.pk


 a fellow officer from my father's unit was recalled from retirement to join the joint task force. he was a cobra gunship pilot. last time I met him about 2 or 3 years ago. last I know he was still flying. I will try to get hold of him during my next visit to Pakistan during August time.

hopefully I am successful. fingers crossed

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## GHOST RIDER

@DESERT FIGHTER

does it look similar to this to you?

SIG 552 Commando


----------



## Zarvan

Bratva said:


> New gun in SSG armory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Credits: @skybolt


Which Gun is this ?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

GHOST RIDER said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> does it look similar to this to you?
> 
> SIG 552 Commando



No... not a sig..

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## Kompromat

@DESERT FIGHTER

Is it true that boys from 'Musa' still prefer Augs?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Horus said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> Is it true that boys from 'Musa' still prefer Augs?



im not gonna lie bro.. im not an expert.. but it seems they do prefer the AUG..

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## TOPGUN

Horus said:


> Maybe @Irfan Baloch and i can do an interview with a Cobra rider?
> 
> 
> 
> Can you make a detailed list of what you want to add into this and email me? - I am going to do the editing and republish it. Once its refined im going to place the ebook online for free.
> 
> aeronaut@defence.pk




Yes plz do brother it would be deeply appreciated thx

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## Basel

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Everybody has AUG its one of widespread use among all military forces and LEA's.



If AUG is that good then why Pakistan get license production of it?? can it replace G-3??


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## Windjammer

*1979: Pakistani Special Forces (SSG) cleared the Holy Kaaba of militants*






The Grand Mosque Seizure on November 20, 1979, was an armed attack and takeover by armed Islamist dissidents of the Al-Masjid al-Haram in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, the holiest place in Islam. The insurgents declared that the Mahdi, or redeemer of Islam, had arrived in the form of one of the insurgents' leaders, Abdullah Hamid Mohammed Al-Qahtani and called on Muslims to obey him.The seizure shocked the Islamic world as hundreds of pilgrims present for the annual hajj were taken hostage, and hundreds of militants, security forces and hostages caught in crossfire were killed in the ensuing battles for control of the site. The siege ended two weeks after the takeover began with militants cleared from the mosque.[2] Following the attack, the Saudi state implemented stricter enforcement of Islamic code.[3]Confusion reigned at the field command, where several senior princes, the heads of the armed forces and military attachés from Pakistan gave advice. Pakistan Army infantry and armoured units deployed in Saudi Arabia were mobilized immediately. Pakistani SSG commandos were rushed to Mecca from Pakistan on Saudi Government's request.In the middle of the day, Saudi troops abseiled from helicopters directly into the courtyard in the center of the mosque. The soldiers were picked off by insurgents holding superior positions. At this point, King Khalid appointed Turki head of the operation.[16] The insurgents broadcast their demands from the mosque loudspeakers, calling for the cutoff of oil exports to the United States and expulsion of all foreign civilian and military experts from the Arabian peninsula.[17] On November 25, the Arab Socialist Action Party - Arabian Peninsula issued a statement from Beirut alleging to clarify the demands of the insurgents. The party, however, denied any involvement of its own in the seizure.[18]Pakistanis were the only forces besides Saudis– as non-Muslims cannot enter the city of Mecca. The Pakistanis asked for permission to end the siege by flooding the mosque and then dropping a high-voltage electric cable to electrocute all present. This suggestion was requested by the then Commandant of the Pakistan Special Services Group, Brigadier Tariq Mehmood[[1]]. This proposal was deemed unacceptable by Saudi authorities. They then used tanks to ram the doors of the mosque and Pakistani Commandos[[2]] then resorted to spraying the mosque with non-lethal gases in order to subdue the occupiers, and dropped grenades into the chambers through holes drilled in the mosque courtyard. The Pakistani commandos stormed the mosque, and used the least amount of force possible to avoid damage to the mosque. They killed most of the insurgents, and managed to force the surrender of the survivors.[19]The battle had lasted more than two weeks, and had officially left "255 pilgrims, troops and fanatics" killed "another 560 injured ... although diplomats suggested the toll was higher." Military casualties were 127 dead and 451 injured.[20]

The Grand Mosque Seizure on November 20, 1979, was an armed attack and takeover by armed Islamist dissidents of the Al-Masjid al-Haram in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, the holiest place in Islam. The insurgents declared that the Mahdi, or redeemer of Islam, had arrived in the form of one of the insurgents' leaders, Abdullah Hamid Mohammed Al-Qahtani and called on Muslims to obey him.The seizure shocked the Islamic world as hundreds of pilgrims present for the annual hajj were taken hostage, and hundreds of militants, security forces and hostages caught in crossfire were killed in the ensuing battles for control of the site. The siege ended two weeks after the takeover began with militants cleared from the mosque.[2] Following the attack, the Saudi state implemented stricter enforcement of Islamic code.[3]Confusion reigned at the field command, where several senior princes, the heads of the armed forces and military attachés from Pakistan gave advice. Pakistan Army infantry and armoured units deployed in Saudi Arabia were mobilized immediately. Pakistani SSG commandos were rushed to Mecca from Pakistan on Saudi Government's request.In the middle of the day, Saudi troops abseiled from helicopters directly into the courtyard in the center of the mosque. The soldiers were picked off by insurgents holding superior positions. At this point, King Khalid appointed Turki head of the operation.[16]he insurgents broadcast their demands from the mosque loudspeakers, calling for the cutoff of oil exports to the United States and expulsion of all foreign civilian and military experts from the Arabian peninsula.[17] On November 25, the Arab Socialist Action Party - Arabian Peninsula issued a statement from Beirut alleging to clarify the demands of the insurgents. The party, however, denied any involvement of its own in the seizure.[18]Pakistanis were the only forces besides Saudis– as non-Muslims cannot enter the city of Mecca. The Pakistanis asked for permission to end the siege by flooding the mosque and then dropping a high-voltage electric cable to electrocute all present. This suggestion was requested by the then Commandant of the Pakistan Special Services Group, Brigadier Tariq Mehmood[[1]]. This proposal was deemed unacceptable by Saudi authorities. They then used tanks to ram the doors of the mosque and Pakistani Commandos[[2]] then resorted to spraying the mosque with non-lethal gases in order to subdue the occupiers, and dropped grenades into the chambers through holes drilled in the mosque courtyard. The Pakistani commandos stormed the mosque, and used the least amount of force possible to avoid damage to the mosque. They killed most of the insurgents, and managed to force the surrender of the survivors.[19]The battle had lasted more than two weeks, and had officially left "255 pilgrims, troops and fanatics" killed "another 560 injured ... although diplomats suggested the toll was higher." Military casualties were 127 dead and 451 injured.[20]

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

@Redhawk ...

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Amaa'n

i don't see how this gun is different - just different stock and smaller barrel - 10.5" sbr


Bratva said:


> New gun in SSG armory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Credits: @skybolt





DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I was talking about the smaller carbine type variant...the guy in front is holding... the weapon held by the person behind is almost unidentifiable...





Zarvan said:


> Which Gun is this ?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

balixd said:


> i don't see how this gun is different - just different stock and smaller barrel - 10.5"



seems like some M-4 or AR variant..


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## Amaa'n

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> seems like some M-4 or AR variant..


yep ar sbr

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## Hindustani78

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Post it in the appropriate thread... here:*
> 
> Photos | Pakistan Police, Rangers, Airport Security, FC, LEA, Rescue & Disaster Response Agencies. | Page 50



Thank you. Can Mod move this post ?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Hindustani78 said:


> Thank you. Can Mod move this post ?



delete n post there.


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## Hindustani78

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> delete n post there.



done here and posted there.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

PN & TN VBSS teams at Karachi:

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Old Traing Pics :












Ranger' SF Snipers (RATS):

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*very very old pics:*

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## DESERT FIGHTER




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## IrbiS

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 197086


FN2000


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

IrbiS said:


> FN2000


Yeah.


----------



## IrbiS

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yeah.


I've that gun...........in my mind

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## Zarvan




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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


>



For fk sake don't spam these thread with ancient pics (also reposts).

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yaar Sufi blur the face .. Chawalien NA mar.


How it is done ?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> How it is done ?


PhotoHide.com - hide the face on your personal photos to ensure your privacy

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## django

For heavens sake blur their faces ,if ever one of these fine individuals (ALLAH na karay) is captured by those taliban rodents who quite possibly access this site then God help these men, especially the sof operators who operate behind enemy lines without rank, insignia or even uniform.

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## GHOST RIDER

django said:


> For heavens sake blur their faces ,if ever one of these fine individuals (ALLAH na karay) is captured by those taliban rodents who quite possibly access this site then God help these men, especially the sof operators who operate behind enemy lines without rank, insignia or even uniform.



we should all blur the faces,
but almost all pictures here are from social media, 
Our soldiers need to be responsible themselves too ,

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## Kompromat

SSW.

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## wiseone2

Thəorətic Muslim said:


> The average American Spec Operator is in his late 30s. They're expected to operate without constant micromanagement from the Pentagon. And the best crafted battle plans disintegrate upon first contact with the enemy, and they have to come up with a new one or end up in body bags.
> 
> Most 20 year old infantry soldiers can't handle that pressure.
> 
> Look at the missions Spec Ops are supposed to do. Whats the ability to deadlift 300lbs when your mission is to recon? Language skills are better served. Teaching native soldiers how to conduct guerrilla warfare, Language and Patience.
> 
> 
> 
> "Brains over Brawn" is versatility over old fashion brute force. American Spec Ops are trained to be ambassadors, not just warriors. Men who not only outlast an enemy, outmaneuver and disengage when the job is done, but project knowledge.
> 
> Brute force is only for show, it's only going to get you so far. This is modern warfare not the last stand of 300.
> 
> American Spec Ops are trained for endurance, yes far outranking an American Infantry Soldier, but compared to Spec Op Forces from other countries they lag behind.
> 
> "What Delta can do with technology, SAS does with skill."
> 
> The Day - Google News Archive Search



Without technology a lot of special operation troops are elite infantry combat troops.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

@wiseone2

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## DESERT FIGHTER




----------



## PakistanCybeRPolice

very nice pics


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

*23rd March Parade Rehearsals:

























Nigerian SF operatives training at Cherat:









*

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## Kompromat

Special boys for special roles.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*SSW,SSG,SSN



















*

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## thrilainmanila

Horus said:


> Special boys for special roles.
> 
> View attachment 205508


THE guy whos face is blurred was he martyred?


----------



## Kompromat

thrilainmanila said:


> THE guy whos face is blurred was he martyred?



No.


----------



## Zarvan



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## ghazi52

Very impressive ....


----------



## blain2

Gentlemen, I think specific credit for this writing should be given to some of the members at Pakdef. I know a few of them first hand who researched the content by reaching out to retired SSG personnel, spent countless hours editing the first detailed draft and then published it through Pakdef. However the focus of the write up was till Kargil conflict, but it is a significant part of this document. Aside from that write-up, the only other more detailed and accurate account is to be found in three sources, two specifically for the historical context in "Unlikely Beginings" and "The way it was" by Maj Gen Osman Mitha and Brig Zaheer Alam Khan respectively and lastly "SSG Tareekh kay aieenay mai." by Lt Col Ghulam Jilani. However interestingly enough, the pakdef writeup on the SSG predates all three of these sources.

I definitely give credit to Horus for compiling this and adding more contemporary content to it because a lot has gone on with the SSG ever since the US war in Afghanistan started.



Immanuel said:


> Nice write up, impressive force indeed, one thing becomes clear, when it comes India and wars fought to this day, somehow the failure is being shown as lack of propper planning and improper utilization. Guess, this write up should summarize an important fact, going to war with India will always be impropper planning  and impropper utilization.


I do not see it that way. In 1965, Pakistan Army was new to the concept of special forces employment. We learned some very good lessons and we applied those in 1971 in a much better way. The SSG had pretty much broken the back of the insurgency right up to the breakout of hostilities with India. Ever since that, SSG has performed well and if I might say so, well above its weight.

In the 1965 war, had the SSG sent smaller teams across the IB, they would have done an exceptionally amazing job because where SSG was employed along the the IB, those detachments did well in conducting raids and harassment of Indian forces along with Infantry units. However the compulsion in 1965 was driven by the needs of the PAF to carry out raids against forward Indian bases. The issues and lessons learned are countless and there are volumes of after action reports filed by those who participated in these missions.



Horus said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> Is it true that boys from 'Musa' still prefer Augs?


Just anecdotal evidence. Nothing that suggests that the entire company prefers Augs. One of the things that the manufacturer talked up was the buoyancy factor for the rifle. It helps when you are wading across with a heavy load and then have to worry about a weapon that has a lot of weight. Due to extensive use of plastic on the Aug, it is much lighter and also floats. In the overall scheme of things, its not much to go by.



Windjammer said:


> *1979: Pakistani Special Forces (SSG) cleared the Holy Kaaba of militants*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Grand Mosque Seizure on November 20, 1979, was an armed attack and takeover by armed Islamist dissidents of the Al-Masjid al-Haram in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, the holiest place in Islam. The insurgents declared that the Mahdi, or redeemer of Islam, had arrived in the form of one of the insurgents' leaders, Abdullah Hamid Mohammed Al-Qahtani and called on Muslims to obey him.The seizure shocked the Islamic world as hundreds of pilgrims present for the annual hajj were taken hostage, and hundreds of militants, security forces and hostages caught in crossfire were killed in the ensuing battles for control of the site. The siege ended two weeks after the takeover began with militants cleared from the mosque.[2] Following the attack, the Saudi state implemented stricter enforcement of Islamic code.[3]Confusion reigned at the field command, where several senior princes, the heads of the armed forces and military attachés from Pakistan gave advice. Pakistan Army infantry and armoured units deployed in Saudi Arabia were mobilized immediately. Pakistani SSG commandos were rushed to Mecca from Pakistan on Saudi Government's request.In the middle of the day, Saudi troops abseiled from helicopters directly into the courtyard in the center of the mosque. The soldiers were picked off by insurgents holding superior positions. At this point, King Khalid appointed Turki head of the operation.[16] The insurgents broadcast their demands from the mosque loudspeakers, calling for the cutoff of oil exports to the United States and expulsion of all foreign civilian and military experts from the Arabian peninsula.[17] On November 25, the Arab Socialist Action Party - Arabian Peninsula issued a statement from Beirut alleging to clarify the demands of the insurgents. The party, however, denied any involvement of its own in the seizure.[18]Pakistanis were the only forces besides Saudis– as non-Muslims cannot enter the city of Mecca. The Pakistanis asked for permission to end the siege by flooding the mosque and then dropping a high-voltage electric cable to electrocute all present. This suggestion was requested by the then Commandant of the Pakistan Special Services Group, Brigadier Tariq Mehmood[[1]]. This proposal was deemed unacceptable by Saudi authorities. They then used tanks to ram the doors of the mosque and Pakistani Commandos[[2]] then resorted to spraying the mosque with non-lethal gases in order to subdue the occupiers, and dropped grenades into the chambers through holes drilled in the mosque courtyard. The Pakistani commandos stormed the mosque, and used the least amount of force possible to avoid damage to the mosque. They killed most of the insurgents, and managed to force the surrender of the survivors.[19]The battle had lasted more than two weeks, and had officially left "255 pilgrims, troops and fanatics" killed "another 560 injured ... although diplomats suggested the toll was higher." Military casualties were 127 dead and 451 injured.[20]
> 
> The Grand Mosque Seizure on November 20, 1979, was an armed attack and takeover by armed Islamist dissidents of the Al-Masjid al-Haram in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, the holiest place in Islam. The insurgents declared that the Mahdi, or redeemer of Islam, had arrived in the form of one of the insurgents' leaders, Abdullah Hamid Mohammed Al-Qahtani and called on Muslims to obey him.The seizure shocked the Islamic world as hundreds of pilgrims present for the annual hajj were taken hostage, and hundreds of militants, security forces and hostages caught in crossfire were killed in the ensuing battles for control of the site. The siege ended two weeks after the takeover began with militants cleared from the mosque.[2] Following the attack, the Saudi state implemented stricter enforcement of Islamic code.[3]Confusion reigned at the field command, where several senior princes, the heads of the armed forces and military attachés from Pakistan gave advice. Pakistan Army infantry and armoured units deployed in Saudi Arabia were mobilized immediately. Pakistani SSG commandos were rushed to Mecca from Pakistan on Saudi Government's request.In the middle of the day, Saudi troops abseiled from helicopters directly into the courtyard in the center of the mosque. The soldiers were picked off by insurgents holding superior positions. At this point, King Khalid appointed Turki head of the operation.[16]he insurgents broadcast their demands from the mosque loudspeakers, calling for the cutoff of oil exports to the United States and expulsion of all foreign civilian and military experts from the Arabian peninsula.[17] On November 25, the Arab Socialist Action Party - Arabian Peninsula issued a statement from Beirut alleging to clarify the demands of the insurgents. The party, however, denied any involvement of its own in the seizure.[18]Pakistanis were the only forces besides Saudis– as non-Muslims cannot enter the city of Mecca. The Pakistanis asked for permission to end the siege by flooding the mosque and then dropping a high-voltage electric cable to electrocute all present. This suggestion was requested by the then Commandant of the Pakistan Special Services Group, Brigadier Tariq Mehmood[[1]]. This proposal was deemed unacceptable by Saudi authorities. They then used tanks to ram the doors of the mosque and Pakistani Commandos[[2]] then resorted to spraying the mosque with non-lethal gases in order to subdue the occupiers, and dropped grenades into the chambers through holes drilled in the mosque courtyard. The Pakistani commandos stormed the mosque, and used the least amount of force possible to avoid damage to the mosque. They killed most of the insurgents, and managed to force the surrender of the survivors.[19]The battle had lasted more than two weeks, and had officially left "255 pilgrims, troops and fanatics" killed "another 560 injured ... although diplomats suggested the toll was higher." Military casualties were 127 dead and 451 injured.[20]


This is wiki type of content making rounds. The book "Siege of Mecca" is a good one to go through. What has been attributed to the Pakistani troops was essentially an idea floated by the French to the Saudis. The bulk of the fighting was done by the Saudis with the French providing planning support (and not actively fighting on the ground).

The book has quite a few of the pictures of the operation itself and it shows Saudi troops right in the middle of action in the tunnels and inside the structure of the haram.

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## Kompromat

blain2 said:


> Gentlemen, I think specific credit for this writing should be given to some of the members at Pakdef. I know a few of them first hand who researched the content by reaching out to retired SSG personnel, spent countless hours editing the first detailed draft and then published it through Pakdef. However the focus of the write up was till Kargil conflict, but it is a significant part of this document. Aside from that write-up, the only other more detailed and accurate account is to be found in three sources, two specifically for the historical context in "Unlikely Beginings" and "The way it was" by Maj Gen Osman Mitha and Brig Zaheer Alam Khan respectively and lastly "SSG Tareekh kay aieenay mai." by Lt Col Ghulam Jilani. However interestingly enough, the pakdef writeup on the SSG predates all three of these sources.
> 
> I definitely give credit to Horus for compiling this and adding more contemporary content to it because a lot has gone on with the SSG ever since the US war in Afghanistan started.
> 
> 
> I do not see it that way. In 1965, Pakistan Army was new to the concept of special forces employment. We learned some very good lessons and we applied those in 1971 in a much better way. The SSG had pretty much broken the back of the insurgency right up to the breakout of hostilities with India. Ever since that, SSG has performed well and if I might say so, well above its weight.
> 
> In the 1965 war, had the SSG sent smaller teams across the IB, they would have done an exceptionally amazing job because where SSG was employed along the the IB, those detachments did well in conducting raids and harassment of Indian forces along with Infantry units. However the compulsion in 1965 was driven by the needs of the PAF to carry out raids against forward Indian bases. The issues and lessons learned are countless and there are volumes of after action reports filed by those who participated in these missions.
> 
> 
> Just anecdotal evidence. Nothing that suggests that the entire company prefers Augs. One of the things that the manufacturer talked up was the buoyancy factor for the rifle. It helps when you are wading across with a heavy load and then have to worry about a weapon that has a lot of weight. Due to extensive use of plastic on the Aug, it is much lighter and also floats. In the overall scheme of things, its not much to go by.



Please check the credits below on the last page.

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## Sage

Umair Nawaz said:


> What is the name of Chinese Special Forces?


They don't have one ....all their forces including Police have their own Spec Ops units ....they are very agile and one fell of marksmen. I have met Captain Sher Khan from SSG ....he had been to China and he was all praise for the Chinese counterparts for their quick moves and target engagements !

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## Stealth



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## krash

Sage said:


> Astore one is with the NLI i think ....they also run summer course for the civilians ...



I've met SSG and regular service men from different regiments stationed there for different training courses the few times that I've been there. Apart from the very below par presentation, which I've seen too many times, telling how all the army comes there including the SSG, I specifically remember one mess in-charge there who wasn't from the NLI. Hard to forget meeting a man who has a successful G-IV summit under his belt.

ps: We have a little hand in the idea behind starting those civilian courses there, accidentally though. You'll even see my picture in the presentation of the base/school  Btw there's also at least one winter course (skiing) offered for civilians there as well.

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## Armstrong

krash said:


> I've met SSG and regular service men from different regiments stationed there for different training courses the few times that I've been there. Apart from the very below par presentation, which I've seen too many times, telling how all the army comes there including the SSG, I specifically remember one mess in-charge there who wasn't from the NLI. Hard to forget meeting a man who has a successful G-IV summit under his belt.
> 
> ps: We have a little hand in the idea behind starting those civilian courses there, accidentally though. You'll even see my picture in the presentation of the base/school  Btw there's also at least one winter course (skiing) offered for civilians there as well.



Ahhh so you were the chubby moustached guy in pink shorts in that presentation !

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## Sage

krash said:


> I've met SSG and regular service men from different regiments stationed there for different training courses the few times that I've been there. Apart from the very below par presentation, which I've seen too many times, telling how all the army comes there including the SSG, I specifically remember one mess in-charge there who wasn't from the NLI. Hard to forget meeting a man who has a successful G-IV summit under his belt.
> 
> ps: We have a little hand in the idea behind starting those civilian courses there, accidentally though. You'll even see my picture in the presentation of the base/school  Btw there's also at least one winter course (skiing) offered for civilians there as well.


I had opted for Hiking and Tracking ....but then my friends took me out to Quetta ....morons ...Good to know that you had a hand in those courses ....be there when I come back in the vacations ....

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## krash

Armstrong said:


> Ahhh so you were the chubby moustached guy in pink shorts in that presentation !



Hahaha! I knew you'd like it  I even have a pink Northface beanie to match!




Sage said:


> I had opted for Hiking and Tracking ....but then my friends took me out to Quetta ....morons ...Good to know that you had a hand in those courses ....be there when I come back in the vacations ....



That was not nice of them. Although, I'm sitting here desperate to travel Balochistan again.

Haha, a very accidental hand. If I don't lose the battle against my Dad for kicking me back out of Pakistan then we shall slalom down Tantanka and Miaro together for sure.

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## Sage

krash said:


> Hahaha! I knew you'd like it  I even have a pink Northface beanie to match!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was not nice of them. Although, I'm sitting here desperate to travel Balochistan again.
> 
> Haha, a very accidental hand. If I don't lose the battle against my Dad for kicking me back out of Pakistan then we shall slalom down Tantanka and Miaro together for sure.


Sound like a deal

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Horus said:


> SSGN



Arent those Marines...? I mean SSGN doesnt have G3s.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Arent those Marines...? I mean SSGN doesnt have G3s.



Correct those are Marines.. Pic is from early 2000's (2003)

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*COAS visit to frontline:*



\ 

*SSGN guys during evac operations in yemen:








*

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## nomi007

A Sikh officer from SSG (Special Services Group) commandos.





great to see this

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## ghazi52

great development ...........................


----------



## Slides

That's from a movie and they're actors


----------



## Bratva

Uziar @ PAKDEF SSGN

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## WaLeEdK2

Bratva said:


> Uziar @ PAKDEF SSGN
> 
> View attachment 215852


These guys look like they have new kinds of helmets, no?


----------



## Kompromat

WaLeEdK2 said:


> These guys look like they have new kinds of helmets, no?



MICH helmets

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## notorious_eagle

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *COAS visit to frontline:*
> View attachment 213565



Just look at the love the men have for this man, they are following him into battle. The informal bond that exists between this Soldier and the General is very endearing. 

God Bless Raheel Sharif and our Soldiers

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Bratva said:


> Uziar @ PAKDEF SSGN
> 
> View attachment 215852



Holy shit! Got more photos like that?


----------



## GHOST RIDER

Bratva said:


> Uziar @ PAKDEF SSGN
> 
> View attachment 215852



they take a shield in Mountain warfare ?


----------



## Kompromat

GHOST RIDER said:


> they take a shield in Mountain warfare ?



Its for forced entery

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## GHOST RIDER

Horus said:


> Its for forced entery



but dosent forced entry takes place in urban warfare or Counter terrorism operations(hostage rescue, hijacking, piracy) ?

Or is their is a counter terrorist facility in this mountain terrain ?


----------



## Kompromat

GHOST RIDER said:


> but dosent forced entry takes place in urban warfare or Counter terrorism operations(hostage rescue, hijacking, piracy) ?
> 
> Or is their is a counter terrorist facility in this mountain terrain ?



Yes, however you can also have a Forced Entery situation on a bunker hidden over a hill.

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## Inception-06

GHOST RIDER said:


> but dosent forced entry takes place in urban warfare or Counter terrorism operations(hostage rescue, hijacking, piracy) ?
> 
> Or is their is a counter terrorist facility in this mountain terrain ?



Its just the training area of PN -SSGN its not really a mountain but a cliff near the Pakistani Coast !

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## Zarvan

Ulla said:


> Its just the training area of PN -SSGN its not really a mountain but a cliff near the Pakistani Coast !


How many SSGN we have ???


----------



## Inception-06

Zarvan said:


> How many SSGN we have ???


in active Duty I think maximum 600 with retired much more.

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## Inception-06

GHOST RIDER said:


> but dosent forced entry takes place in urban warfare or Counter terrorism operations(hostage rescue, hijacking, piracy) ?
> 
> Or is their is a counter terrorist facility in this mountain terrain ?




Its this place here:

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## Reddawn

Ulla said:


> in active Duty I think maximum 600 with retired much more.



SSGN numbers are classified. How do you know that?


----------



## krash

nomi007 said:


> A Sikh officer from SSG (Special Services Group) commandos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> great to see this



Those look nothing like the SSG.


----------



## Zarvan

nomi007 said:


> A Sikh officer from SSG (Special Services Group) commandos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> great to see this


Its part of a movie not real


----------



## Amaa'n

Training KPK SCU by SSG --- hes a friend of mine, joined SSG in Dec last year

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@Yazp.

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## blain2

krash said:


> @Horus , correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Army High Altitude School is in Rattu, Astore. Did they establish another one in Khaplu?
> 
> ps: Brilliant article


You are right. The Army HAS is at Rattu. I have been to Rattu and it is an amazing place.
Khaplu is a base camp where troops are acclimatized and from where dumping to forward positions on the glacier take place. While the troops are at Khaplu, they engage in routine training for mountain warfare but the actual High Altitude course is run at Rattu.

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## Yazp

Ulla said:


> Its not a gun but a grenade launcher with a scope, very deadly can bring in seconds a lot of fireballs on enemy lines!!
> 
> I like more something like this here, it has a grenade launcher, scope, with a adjustable folding butt .
> View attachment 35677


I don't see how he plans to shoot a grenade out of a GP25 on an AK with a bayonet directly in front of the grenade launcher... Unless he plans to blow himself and his friends up 
Edit: upon further inspection, it seems that the AK is mounting an NPSU night vision scope


----------



## blain2

GHOST RIDER said:


> but dosent forced entry takes place in urban warfare or Counter terrorism operations(hostage rescue, hijacking, piracy) ?
> 
> Or is their is a counter terrorist facility in this mountain terrain ?


Its an SSGN Methods of Entry (MoE) team. The picture is from a general training area where they practice methods of entry and the ballistic shields are used in such drills.


----------



## Zarrar Alvi



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## Inception-06

Yazp said:


> I don't see how he plans to shoot a grenade out of a GP25 on an AK with a bayonet directly in front of the grenade launcher... Unless he plans to blow himself and his friends up
> Edit: upon further inspection, it seems that the AK is mounting an NPSU night vision scope



who says bayonet cant be removed ?

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Imgur

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Imgur


All reposts .. One pic is of indian military.. Some others are regular army troops...

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## Zarvan

@Horus @Arsalan @RescueRanger @ajpirzada @Abu Zolfiqar

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## Umair Nawaz

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Imgur


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

Dont know if these are re posts






2007
















Gonna post more


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

ACU Police/Military Unit




I think this is the Airport Security Force


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

Not sure if these guys are SSG, but still worth posting.


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

Pak Marines (I guess that uniform really suites em)





New unit?


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan



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## Talwar e Pakistan

Marines i think? or SSGN?











A Zarrar Pic

























Some SSGN Pics

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## Talwar e Pakistan



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## Talwar e Pakistan



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## Talwar e Pakistan

Damnit guys, help me revive the thread!


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## Bratva

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Damnit guys, help me revive the thread!



Don't pollute the thread with old/already posted pics. Plus you are posting saudi SF pic as SSG.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Bratva said:


> Don't pollute the thread with old/already posted pics. Plus you are posting saudi SF pic as SSG.


SSG and Saudi together.



Bratva said:


> Don't pollute the thread with old/already posted pics. Plus you are posting saudi SF pic as SSG.



Not old and already posted.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Not sure if these guys are SSG, but still worth posting.




Army police an Rangers.. Already poste (reposts).. Way to go!


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> ACU Police/Military Unit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is the Airport Security Force



Old reposts .. Last 2 pics are KKP police and ASF (airport security force).



Bratva said:


> Don't pollute the thread with old/already posted pics. Plus you are posting saudi SF pic as SSG.


Those guys are LCB (light commando battalion - more like QRF)... Not Saudis..

Each corps has raised a battalion of these guys!



Talwar e Pakistan said:


> SSG and Saudi together.
> 
> 
> 
> Not old and already posted.



All f these have been posed before ... Many of them are regular army troops .. Some cops.. Some Rangers and ASF and even an Iraqi SF (with the PKA).

Heck in the guy who posted most of these in relative threads.

P.S: Many of them are decades old the "Zarrar" pics lol are from red mosque operation ... Others from Swat operation in 2007-8..

Etx etc.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Marines i think? or SSGN?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Zarrar Pic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some SSGN Pics




Marine , Rangers and SSGN (pic from 2004-5).. We are soldiers series.. And Fukin reposts.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Talwar e Pakistan said:


>



Pak China Youyi series from late 2000s.





> Pak Marines (I guess that uniform really suites em)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New unit?


Ol pic of a Pak cadet in Aistralian military academy .. All freakin reposts an old as hell!


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Not sure if these guys are SSG, but still worth posting.


LCBs.....Light Commando Battalion.


----------



## Pak_Track




----------



## thrilainmanila

if the M-4s are so widespread why doesn't the SSG exlusively use them why orientate with upgrade Type-56s?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Pak_Track said:


>


Very old pic !


----------



## Pak_Track

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Very old pic !


Apologies. It was posted by an SSG friend on facebook, 2 hours prior to my posting.


----------



## Sardar Anees Abbasi

Jhanda


----------



## fatman17

India beware

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## Sardar Anees Abbasi

fatman17 said:


> India beware


India SSG pigeon force going to capture delhi


----------



## OrionHunter

fatman17 said:


> India beware


Shiverrr.....






We're so scared we're heading for the North Pole! You don't expect us to face supermen from the planet Krypton, do you?

*But do ask Mush what happened to his SSG in Siachen!! *


----------



## kaku1

OrionHunter said:


> Shiverrr.....
> View attachment 231899
> View attachment 231899
> We're so scared we're heading for the North Pole! You don't expect us to face supermen from the planet Krypton, do you?
> 
> But do ask Mush what happened to his SSG in Siachen!!



Actually we are not going to North Pole, all Indian humans going to convert themselves into Penguins.


----------



## fatman17

Lt Gen haroon

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## Imran Khan

SSW

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## Kompromat



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## saadee

I am watching Express channel and the are showing SSG's lunch menu. This SSG commando took this snake out, killed it with his dagger un skinned it and and then put it on the grill. Later on they showed that commandos caught another snake and ate it without grilling it. Other menu includes drinking chicken's blood and frogs.


----------



## truthseeker2010

write now a program is being aired regarding SSG on express television with Imran Khan(anchor person)..


----------



## krash

saadee said:


> I am watching Express channel and the are showing SSG's lunch menu. This SSG commando took this snake out, killed it with his dagger un skinned it and and then put it on the grill. Later on they showed that commandos caught another snake and ate it without grilling it. Other menu includes drinking chicken's blood and frogs.



Old images,
















Foreign cadets (I believe Saudis) being given a taste of the local cuisine,

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## Kurlang

*SSG Training.......... Takrar 15th July, 2015





*


----------



## Kompromat

SSGN-

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Horus said:


> SSGN-
> 
> View attachment 237831


Bhai log very old photo .. From 2002-3... Same old plate carrier vests etc... Thank God they replaced that shit for good.


... 

On topic .. Old pic (training):


----------



## Neutron

Horus said:


> Elements of it...not a full course.
> 
> 
> 
> Battlefield Marshall Arts takes elements from all kinds of marshal arts to prepare cadets for only those elements which they are likely to face in a combat situation. KFU is Kungfu.


 

Correction not cadets ....officers. ...cadets don't undergo ssg training

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## Neutron

krash said:


> @Horus , correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Army High Altitude School is in Rattu, Astore. Did they establish another one in Khaplu?
> 
> ps: Brilliant article




Not in khaplu. School is only established in Rattu


----------



## Neutron

blain2 said:


> You are right. The Army HAS is at Rattu. I have been to Rattu and it is an amazing place.
> Khaplu is a base camp where troops are acclimatized and from where dumping to forward positions on the glacier take place. While the troops are at Khaplu, they engage in routine training for mountain warfare but the actual High Altitude course is run at Rattu.




I visited khaplu and furthur moved to piun as well. Visited Giyari during resue operation. We must not forget sacrifices of PA and NLI troops in Sciachin. Don't know why we forget tragic incident of 6 NLI?. When I visited that place rescue operation was in progress. Engineer officer told me an astonishing fact that day with his first hand experience. It was 49th day of the rescue operation. He said,when we recover anybody after digging down, it bleeds fresh. Yesterday I recovered one body bleeding fresh and he showed us strains of blood.

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## Bratva

SSG + Aviation Pilots - From movie yaalghar

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Bratva said:


> SSG + Aviation Pilots - From movie yaalghar
> 
> 
> View attachment 238760
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 238761



*Based on Peochar ops 09"... the largest airborne operation:

























*

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

On 17 May 2009, *Capt Bilal* was assigned the task to clear / capture Ghuzanosar Ridge in Peochar valley, an imp feature of paramount imp for further progress of op. Despite stiff resistance and highly difficult terrain, Capt Bilal along with his combat team advanced and contacted the miscreants and cleared the bunkers. Capt Bilal after accomplishing his assigned task decided to mov fwd and clear next posn. Miscreants after loosing their first posn were offering stiff resistance and not allowing Capt Bilal to mov fwd. Capt Bilal promptly reacted to every situation and while leading from the front was hit by a rocket on his chest and embraced Shahadat, an ultimate desire of any soldier, at the spot. 
Capt Bilal was a kind hearted and pious man. He always enjoyed the love and affection of his senior comds and under comds. He was an obedient and disciplined officer.
Capt Bilal Zafar sacrificed his life for the honour and Glory of his motherland. Our Nation / Army is indebted to such great individuals.
“SHAHADAT” of the gallant son of “PAK ARMY” will always be written in bold in the dazzling pages of the history and this has added another feather to diadem of PAK ARMY.
May Allah Almighty rest his soul in peace, AMEEN.

::::::::::::::::::::::CAPTAIN BILAL'S LAST SMS::::::::::::::::::::::

IN DA ROARS OF BULLETS...IN DA THUNDER OF BOMBS...THERE R FEW WHO JUST DONT STOP...KNOWING THAT THEY R SURROUNDED BY DEATH...KNOWING DAT THEY COULD LEAVE THEIR WIVES WIDOWS..N CHILDREN ORPHANS..BUT THEY JUST KEEP ON MOVING CUZ SOMTHING IS PUMPING IN THEIR HEARTS N FLOWING THROUGH THEIR VAINS KNOWN AS HONOUR,DEVOTION , MOTIVATION!!! 
DEATH OVER SURRENDER...DATS WHAT THEY SAY DEATH BEFORE DISGRACE...

Peochar-2009:

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## Kurlang

Kurlang said:


> *SSG Training.......... Takrar 15th July, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



*Part II*

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## ghazi52

Thanks ...............................


----------



## thrilainmanila

It's amazing how far the SSG has come in the last 10 years they were using modified AKs now most of them are armed with M4s,


----------



## Mrc

Dont under estimate AK. Its one of the most deadly and reliable riffles around


----------



## Hurter

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 238780
> 
> View attachment 238781
> 
> On 17 May 2009, *Capt Bilal* was assigned the task to clear / capture Ghuzanosar Ridge in Peochar valley, an imp feature of paramount imp for further progress of op. Despite stiff resistance and highly difficult terrain, Capt Bilal along with his combat team advanced and contacted the miscreants and cleared the bunkers. Capt Bilal after accomplishing his assigned task decided to mov fwd and clear next posn. Miscreants after loosing their first posn were offering stiff resistance and not allowing Capt Bilal to mov fwd. Capt Bilal promptly reacted to every situation and while leading from the front was hit by a rocket on his chest and embraced Shahadat, an ultimate desire of any soldier, at the spot.
> Capt Bilal was a kind hearted and pious man. He always enjoyed the love and affection of his senior comds and under comds. He was an obedient and disciplined officer.
> Capt Bilal Zafar sacrificed his life for the honour and Glory of his motherland. Our Nation / Army is indebted to such great individuals.
> “SHAHADAT” of the gallant son of “PAK ARMY” will always be written in bold in the dazzling pages of the history and this has added another feather to diadem of PAK ARMY.
> May Allah Almighty rest his soul in peace, AMEEN.
> 
> ::::::::::::::::::::::CAPTAIN BILAL'S LAST SMS::::::::::::::::::::::
> 
> IN DA ROARS OF BULLETS...IN DA THUNDER OF BOMBS...THERE R FEW WHO JUST DONT STOP...KNOWING THAT THEY R SURROUNDED BY DEATH...KNOWING DAT THEY COULD LEAVE THEIR WIVES WIDOWS..N CHILDREN ORPHANS..BUT THEY JUST KEEP ON MOVING CUZ SOMTHING IS PUMPING IN THEIR HEARTS N FLOWING THROUGH THEIR VAINS KNOWN AS HONOUR,DEVOTION , MOTIVATION!!!
> DEATH OVER SURRENDER...DATS WHAT THEY SAY DEATH BEFORE DISGRACE...
> 
> Peochar-2009:
> 
> View attachment 238782
> View attachment 238783
> View attachment 238785
> View attachment 238786
> View attachment 238787



Extraordinary footage... Thanks


----------



## Capt.Mir5832

AOA
If an officer is in the ssg can he get specialized as a sniper and a eod technician?


----------



## Capt.Mir5832

AOA
If an officer is in the ssg can he get specialized as a sniper and a eod technician?


----------



## Kompromat

Capt.Mir5832 said:


> AOA
> If an officer is in the ssg can he get specialized as a sniper and a eod technician?



Yes.


----------



## Capt.Mir5832

Horus said:


> Yes.


Ok thanks


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

*Some old pics :













*

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## Kompromat

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Some old pics :
> View attachment 241782
> 
> View attachment 241783
> 
> 
> View attachment 241785
> *



Don't fuqwith these guys, they kick butt

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## Folkhindusnsikhs

There's a good reason why the Pakistani- SSG, are so highly rated...


----------



## Amaa'n

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Some old pics :
> View attachment 241782
> 
> View attachment 241783
> 
> 
> View attachment 241785
> *


the first pic is rather new or should i say recent


----------



## Super Falcon

Muhammad Ihtesham Khan said:


> Hey A-O-A , Hope you are fine . I would like to know to things .
> 1 . During training at PMA Kakul are Cadets trained to drive Artillery vehicles , Helicopters , Boats etc ?
> 2 . During training of SSG are Commandos trained to drive Artillery vehicles , Helicopters , Boats , Aircrafts etc


Good question they do get train to pilot heli etc


----------



## Capt.Mir5832

Do the ssg use standered m4 or m4 block?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

*These guys were part of the SSGN who participated in the 6th sep 2014 fly past; @Neptune. SSGN






Old pic of SSW;





Nigerian SF training in Pak;




*

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## Kompromat

The Nigerian SSG qualified, status KIA in a firefight with Boko Haram. He was a Muslim soldier of the Nigerian SOF. RIP

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## I <3 PAK ARMY

They are also using FN 2000


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Horus said:


> The Nigerian SSG qualified, status KIA in a firefight with Boko Haram. He was a Muslim soldier of the Nigerian SOF. RIP



I believe he was another soldier... I have more pics of Nigerian SF.. Will post later..


----------



## MastanKhan



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## DESERT FIGHTER

MastanKhan said:


> View attachment 242744


I believe he is no more the GOC SSG... This pic is from Swat ops 09.

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## truthseeker2010

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I believe he is no more the GOC SSG... This pic is from Swat ops 09.



he resigned after being superseded by current COAS.
The Current GOC SSG, Maj Gen Abid Rafique

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## Neptune

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *These guys were part of the SSGN who participated in the 6th sep 2014 fly past; @Neptune. SSGN
> View attachment 242711
> 
> 
> 
> Old pic of SSW;
> View attachment 242709
> 
> 
> Nigerian SF training in Pak;
> 
> View attachment 242712
> *



@Rashid Mahmood also for you mate.

Good..questions.

Does SSGN use close circuit diver system? (Obviously they do but just my curiosity)

What specific roles they are trained for? I don't mean the general roles of a naval commando force. What support elements do they have?

BTW, How's VBSS conducted by PN? On what perimeters?.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Neptune said:


> @Rashid Mahmood also for you mate.
> 
> Good..questions.
> 
> Does SSGN use close circuit diver system? (Obviously they do but just my curiosity)
> 
> What specific roles they are trained for? I don't mean the general roles of a naval commando force. What support elements do they have?
> 
> BTW, How's VBSS conducted by PN? On what perimeters?.



SSGN operations:

Under water demo
VBSS
Frogman operations through X Craft (midget subs)
Underwater demolition
Airborne operations
SAR
Salvage operations
Clandestine - Commando Ops
SEAL (Covert ops in enemy territory without detection and and exit trunk Ops in enemy waters) -

SEAL's are a seperate group operate under CO SEAL Group..It comprises of ATT & Airborne Operations...Prime Objective is clandestine operations in enemy territory/water.. 


VBSS itself is a seperate group (as you know).. It's missions include;
MIO/VBSS at high seas/anchorage
SEAL insertion/extraction 
Covert Surveillance 
Anti Terrorist Ops
Protection of offshore and Coastal installations
SAR Ops
Anti Smuggling and Piracy operations
Ops in enemy territory/waters

... Some old training pics of VBSS team;

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## MMG

Pakistani Special Services Group vs. Indian *PARA SF (Army), MARCOS (Navy) and Garudas (Air Force)*


----------



## Soldier-X

Sorry if old/repost...

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## ghazi52

Nice sharing ....................


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## RAMPAGE

Soldier-X said:


> Sorry if old/repost...
> View attachment 246558


@DESERT FIGHTER

Imported helmets, eh?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Not helmets but pulled up masks .. The only imported helmets in use are FAST helmets ... The ACHs etx are Pak.. Also marketed by GIDS etc.

@RAMPAGE

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## Amaa'n

Horus said:


> SSG in Jordan.
> View attachment 247749


hes batchmate of my friend from SSG


----------



## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## F.O.X

masud said:


>


Not SSG, just regular infantry.

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## shah jeee

Sid u were right. But failures were because of many more reasons other than ssg cap and trg


----------



## shah jeee

Sid said:


> You're obligated to provide such information when you make haughty claims. To 'digest' it or not; is a matter of free will on the part of those who read that information as well as depending on the credibility of the source.


I am the example and witness bro. I have met those individuals who had been operating against russians. Come to yaldram battalian i will show u the proofs and i will explain every thing in detail


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

masud said:


> l



3 army pics... Old SSG pics... 

1 pic = army 
3rd pic = early 2000s
4th pic = 2008
5th pic = Capt Salman Shaheed - 2007. - red mosque - Operation Sunrise 
6th pic = Army ordinance Corps


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

masud said:


>


Police and old & 2 new army pics.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

masud said:


>


old army,marine and FC pics and only (2) old SSGN + SSG pics 

Please view SSG,SSGN,SSW & SOW thread...


----------



## Ayeshaali

Very Nice >> SSG Commando <3


----------



## Unib Maira

Hero's... proud to be pakistani alhmdl !! ♡

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*SSGN & Marines Ex - Gwadar port;
























*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Old pics of SSGN 









*

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## Capt.Mir5832

do any of you guys now the work out routines for the army?


----------



## Bratva

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/636990886467862528

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## Bratva

SSG Zarrar Operator first person POV

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## shzali

Great¡!!!!!!


----------



## Sauron

Mordor Approves !!


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

SSGN stills from a TV show ;

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> SSGN stills from a TV show ;
> 
> View attachment 253048
> View attachment 253049
> View attachment 253051
> View attachment 253052


Name of Machine Gun ?


----------



## truthseeker2010

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *
> View attachment 250592
> *



Russian frigate "Yarsolav Mudry"

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> Name of Machine Gun ?


FN Minimi

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## Stealth



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## gangsta_rap

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> FN Minimi



minimi PARA

PARA


----------



## Capt.Mir5832

Zarvan said:


> SSG and SSW and SSGN has to be increased in Numbers equipped with Marks Man Rifle like HK M28 also more helicopters and also introduce new training methods


is the HK M28 like the HK 417?


----------



## Capt.Mir5832

Do ssg snipers get to change the body of there AI Sniper to this?


----------



## Bratva



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## Slides

Good to see a picture of Master Faheem on here.


----------



## Soldier-X



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## special

which rifle is that??


----------



## Dagger Unit

SSG is pride of Pakistan.


----------



## Slides

special said:


> which rifle is that??
> View attachment 256581
> View attachment 256582



What video are the screenshots from?


----------



## Amaa'n

special said:


> which rifle is that??
> View attachment 256581
> View attachment 256582


M4 SBR

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## special

Slides said:


> What video are the screenshots from?

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Kompromat

Holy Moly that's a cutting edge thermal targeting sight.




DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 257405


----------



## Bratva

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 257405



They look afghani's ?


----------



## Hyperion

Make / Specs? 



Horus said:


> Holy Moly that's a cutting edge thermal targeting sight.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Bratva said:


> They look afghani's ?


Yes afghanis in SSG uniform and weapons... Even the insignia ...

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## Bratva

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yes afghanis in SSG uniform and weapons... Even the insignia ...



The uniform and the hazara guy got me confused. Look at the extreme left. Afgani has very similar uniforms


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Bratva said:


> They look afghani's ?





Horus said:


> Holy Moly that's a cutting edge thermal targeting sight.





Hyperion said:


> Make / Specs?



It's French .. Sagem.. Multifunctional weapon sight ... Element of FELIN project... In service since quiet some time...





(Pic from 2013)


Bratva said:


> The uniform and the hazara guy got me confused. Look at the extreme left. Afgani has very similar uniforms



Plenty of hazara soldiers in the PA...


The good old style CAMO jacket and the badge are dead giveaways...

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## Slides

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yes afghanis in SSG uniform and weapons... Even the insignia ...



I don't see any SSG insignia.


----------



## blain2

The above group photo is from a joint exercise b/w Pakistani, Turkish and Afghan troops. The troops on the left and some interspersed here and there are Afghans. You can see the shoulder tab on their right arms indicating they are from an Afghan Commando detachment.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Slides

Horus said:


> View attachment 258880
> View attachment 258879



What unit is this?


----------



## Kompromat

SOTF



Slides said:


> What unit is this?


----------



## Path-Finder

Bratva said:


> The uniform and the hazara guy got me confused. Look at the extreme left. Afgani has very similar uniforms



They appear to be Turkish.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Path-Finder said:


> They appear to be Turkish.



Pak-Afghan and Turk..

Ex was held in Turkey a few months back.


----------



## Capt.Mir5832

How come SSG do not use the upgrades for the M4 like the M4 Block II?


----------



## killer elite

DESERT FIGHTER said:


>



isn't that the new Iranian made Sub machine gun?? so pakistan start importing defense equipment from iran too??

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## Amaa'n

killer elite said:


> isn't that the new Iranian made Sub machine gun?? so pakistan start importing defense equipment from iran too??


its a roni kit for G-19 that SSG uses

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## killer elite

balixd said:


> its a roni kit for G-19 that SSG uses


ooh...my mistake..
i thought it was an Iranian product


----------



## AsianLion

Allah Ho:





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153769234794673





Join this page: https:// Heroes of Pakistan | Facebook

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## krash

Path-Finder said:


> They appear to be Turkish.











Slides said:


> I don't see any SSG insignia.









Less than 50 jumps SSG commando wings:











Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW. | Page 10

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## Slides

krash said:


> Less than 50 jumps SSG commando wings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW. | Page 10




It's not the same wing shape. It looks different but the picture is too low res to be sure.


----------



## black-hawk_101

I think the 30-50 Mi-35s are only and only for the SSGs. That's good.


----------



## krash

Slides said:


> It's not the same wing shape. It looks different but the picture is too low res to be sure.



Really?


----------



## SSG commandos



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## SSG commandos



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## black-hawk_101

It's good to see that PN is buying some more ATR-72s and they already have about 2 of them which are dedicated towards SSGNs.

Why not Army Aviation buy something for SSGs other than Mi-35s? 
Like A Dedicated Aviation Wing for SSGs:
30-50 Mi-35s
15-20 Mi-17 V5s
20-30 Bell-412
20-30 Tiger/A-129s
used 05-10 C-130s
used 05-10 C-27s


----------



## blain2

The above videos are not all related to the SSG. Please keep the content aligned to the topic of the threads!


----------



## blain2

Slides said:


> It's not the same wing shape. It looks different but the picture is too low res to be sure.


The photo is of SSG officers. Without mentioning any names, all three are SSG boys.


----------



## Raptor666

He 


F.O.X said:


> Not SSG, just regular infantry.


He is from SSG...His name is Captain Ahmad !


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Slides said:


> It's not the same wing shape. It looks different but the picture is too low res to be sure.



Go see a doctor.


----------



## nomi007



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## SSG commandos

ssg with saudi army


----------



## Strigon

SSG commandos said:


>



Very nice videos. I know this isnt the place to discuss it but I was wondering. In the last video "Ghazi" the tech kid, is that a hint towards someone's contribution in inciting troubles? Since a lot about him is unknown. Or just another random brainwashed yet tech savvy kid.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*
During Pak China ex;



*
*







*

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## Kompromat

Exclusive images from the joint CT exercise.

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## Zarvan

Horus said:


> Exclusive images from the joint CT exercise.
> 
> View attachment 278418
> View attachment 278419


This is interesting all Pakistan soldiers are carrying QBZ-95. By the way which Chinese unit is participating what are they called their history and other details would be appreciated @Beast @Deino @Chinese-Dragon


----------



## SSG commandos



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## SpectreRain

Very cool. Huge fan of the special forces


----------



## ghazi52

Nice............


----------



## Danish saleem

black-hawk_101 said:


> I think the 30-50 Mi-35s are only and only for the SSGs. That's good.


Mi 35 for SSG?

SSG not use any gunships brother!


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Danish saleem said:


> Mi 35 for SSG?
> 
> SSG not use any gunships brother!



Not right not but they will.. For now they have dedicated Sqds for airborne ops.

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## Danish saleem

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Not right not but they will.. For now they have dedicated Sqds for airborne ops.


 
I not have any information that any special forces uses dedicated gunships!
Most of the special forces uses heli for para dropping!

i


----------



## Rocky rock

Danish saleem said:


> I not have any information that any special forces uses dedicated gunships!
> Most of the special forces uses heli for para dropping!
> 
> i



For that purpose PA is using Mi-17 till now. but in Future after Mi-35 induction PA would Surely use them For Special operation Because it can carry troops and give them Aerial Cover During operation.

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## SpectreRain

Any SSG guru over here whom I can consult?


----------



## Irfan Baloch

nomi007 said:


>


not sure about these guys either . they look too green 
sorry I might be mistaken but my eye doesn't notice any special training or experience. their stance and outlook says it. weapons say they are from airforce but whether they are SSW recruits or just ordinary security staff with basic guard duties... I dont know


compare this to Zarrar coy boys.

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## Khafee

SpectreRain said:


> Any SSG guru over here whom I can consult?


Your best bet, Irfan Baloch


----------



## SpectreRain

Khafee said:


> Your best bet, Irfan Baloch



Thanks bro. Appreciated.






Irfan Baloch said:


> not sure about these guys either . they look too green
> sorry I might be mistaken but my eye doesn't notice any special training or experience. their stance and outlook says it. weapons say they are from airforce but whether they are SSW recruits or just ordinary security staff with basic guard duties... I dont know
> 
> 
> compare this to Zarrar coy boys.



AoA bro. Anyway I can get in touch with you via email or direct message? I wanted to start a thread about a project I'm working on but somehow I still need 5 posts though I've posted more than 5.

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## Irfan Baloch

talk about the project in "whatever" in members club

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## Zarrar Alvi



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## 544_delta

Sykox said:


> Pakistani Special Services Group vs. Indian *PARA SF (Army), MARCOS (Navy) and Garudas (Air Force)*


SSG's the one dagger to cut 'em all....thanks for your offerings


----------



## Zarrar Alvi

SSG AND intelligence operatives disguised as mazdoors

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## django

Zarrar Alvi said:


> View attachment 280492
> 
> 
> View attachment 280493


That is one hell of a scope.

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## Bratva

Zarrar Alvi said:


> View attachment 280494
> SSG AND intelligence operatives disguised as mazdoors



They have a great disguise nobody will know what hits them when they come for you

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## Rashid Mahmood



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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## SSGcommandoPAK

Zarvan said:


> SSG and SSW and SSGN has to be increased in Numbers equipped with Marks Man Rifle like HK M28 also more helicopters and also introduce new training methods



Yes and i think the infantry should also be given a little brief training of the SSG , like CQC training , Martial arts etc

0"]It's good to see that PN is buying some more ATR-72s and they already have about 2 of them which are dedicated towards SSGNs.

Why not Army Aviation buy something for SSGs other than Mi-35s?
Like A Dedicated Aviation Wing for SSGs:
30-50 Mi-35s
15-20 Mi-17 V5s
20-30 Bell-412
20-30 Tiger/A-129s
used 05-10 C-130s
used 05-10 C-27s[/QUOTE]

Yaar yahan Biryani khane kae paise nahi hain aur apne shopping list dekho 



YousufSSG said:


> Yes and i think the infantry should also be given a little brief training of the SSG , like CQC training , Martial arts etc
> 
> 0"]It's good to see that PN is buying some more ATR-72s and they already have about 2 of them which are dedicated towards SSGNs.
> 
> Why not Army Aviation buy something for SSGs other than Mi-35s?
> Like A Dedicated Aviation Wing for SSGs:
> 30-50 Mi-35s
> 15-20 Mi-17 V5s
> 20-30 Bell-412
> 20-30 Tiger/A-129s
> used 05-10 C-130s
> used 05-10 C-27s



Yaar yahan Biryani khane kae paise nahi hain aur apne shopping list dekho


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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Youyi (Friendship Series);

























*

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Bratva

New Batch of SSG and SSW inducted. Passout ceremony at cherat

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## HAIDER

*Tactical Drones for Pakistan's Special Service Group (SSG)*






SSG gun collection

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## Bratva



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## ghazi52

.........................
Special Program on Siacheen.





....


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## ghazi52

................. SSG in action..Takraar - 31st January 2016





..


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## Hell hound

Rashid Mahmood said:


> View attachment 280977


sir who is he standard officer or special forces or is he on some vip's protection duty.it is very rare to see Pakistani solider this much well equipped but then again pak army don't like photoshot for PR.and pls tell us in % how many of our soldiers are equipped this way.
regards


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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## mughaljee

*روس میں مشقوں کے دوران دو دو چھاتہ بردار ایک چھاتے سے زمین پر اترے*
*Sir,*
*Our Special forces are also capable of this training. ?*
*Please share comments.*


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## PakShaheen79

On this day .... SSG showed its professionalism.



> THE EXPRESS TRIBUNE > PAKISTAN
> *On this day in 1994: When Afghan gunmen held over 70 students hostage in Pakistan*
> By Murtaza Abbas
> Published: February 20, 2016
> 121SHARES
> SHARE TWEET EMAIL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani commandos storming the Afghan embassy in Islamabad. PHOTO: REUTERS
> 
> 
> Terrorist targeting school children isn’t exactly a new phenomenon in Pakistan. The horrific attacks on Army Public School in 2014 and Bacha Khan University in 2016 have no parallels in our history, but there was another terror incident which occurred on this day in 1994 when three Afghan gunmen hijacked a school bus in Peshawar, taking 73 schoolchildren and staff hostage.
> 
> The masked gunmen hijacked a school bus in the provincial capital of K-P (then NWFP) in a bid to demand the Pakistani government money and food to aid war-torn Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Times-News (Hendersonville, North Carolina) published on Monday, February 21, 1994.
> 
> Gunmen proceeded with the hostages towards Islamabad, covering 120 miles in the hijacked school bus. In Islamabad, the kidnappers took refuge in the Afghanistan embassy, holding 15 boys and one male teacher hostage. They previously released 55 boys and six female teachers after detaining them for several hours.
> 
> *Five facilitators behind Bacha Khan University attack arrested: DG ISPR*
> 
> The incident took place in response to Pakistan’s decision to close its border in the previous month due to renewed fighting between factions in Kabul which would have prompted another influx of refugees.
> 
> The gunmen claimed they were not part of any feuding faction, however wanted to draw attention towards the plight of ordinary Kabul residents.
> 
> *The negotiation*
> 
> The terrorists initially demanded $500,000, but later raised the ransom demand to $5 million. They also demanded “truckloads of food” to be sent to Kabul, where the heavy fighting has resulted in the food shortages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Straits Times published on Monday, February 21, 1994.
> 
> “We want guarantees that food has reached and been distributed equally among the people of Kabul,” one of the gunmen said, outlining their demands in an interview with a reporter of the British Broadcasting Corporation who was allowed inside the embassy.
> 
> “We are not enemies of the children, and when we are sure supplies have gone to Kabul we will release them,” the gunman said.
> 
> *Remembering martyrs: Walks, candlelight vigils across Punjab to honour the martyrs of APS*
> 
> Then Pakistan interior minister Nasirullah Babar offered to meet their demands for food to war-shattered Kabul and a safe passage back to Afghanistan but refused a ransom demand.
> 
> He said the gunmen had asked for 2,000 truckloads of food for Kabul, where 900 people have been killed and 10,500 injured in bloody battles for power between President Burhanuddin Rabbani and Prime Minister Gulbuddin Hekmatyar since January 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Straits Times published on Monday, February 21, 1994.
> 
> “We said we will give you more, and we will give you medicines also if you want,” Babar said.
> 
> “I will ensure your safe passage and take you by helicopter anywhere you want in Afghanistan.”
> 
> *The operation*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St. Petersburg Times published on Monday, February 21, 1994.
> 
> On late Monday night, thirty Pakistani commandos stormed the Afghan Embassy rescuing all 16 hostages held for more than 36 hours in an assault that lasted 20 seconds.
> 
> *Never forget: Ceremony will be held at APS, says Qaiser*
> 
> Commandos of the Special Services Group began the assault with a stun grenade and then stormed the room where the gunmen were holding six hostages, killing all three in the process, according to Interior Secretary Jamshed Burki.
> 
> “They were holding pistols and hand grenades and had to be incapacitated immediately to prevent them using these weapons against hostages.”
> 
> Burki and Lieutenant General Ghulam Malik decided to carry out the assault to prevent future kidnappings.“We do not deal with hostage takers,” he later said.
> 
> _(With Input from AFP, Reuters and NYTimes)
> 
> http://tribune.com.pk/story/1049740/on-this-day-in-1994-when-afghan-gunmen-held-over-70-students-hostage-in-pakistan/
> 
> _


_
_

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## SSG commandos




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## SSG commandos




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## SSG commandos



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## Anees

What is the reference No 08 Book ??? Can we get more brief ...


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## Kompromat

You should be able to get on Amazon.



Anees said:


> What is the reference No 08 Book ??? Can we get more brief ...


----------



## bloo

Can anyone tell me which branch of special forces does the soldier below belong too?


----------



## ZedZeeshan

bloo said:


> Can anyone tell me which branch of special forces does the soldier below belong too?
> 
> View attachment 296225


Why dont you go and ask him yourself...


----------



## Kompromat

Special Service Group Navy (SSGN)



bloo said:


> Can anyone tell me which branch of special forces does the soldier below belong too?
> 
> View attachment 296225

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## Irfan Baloch

Rashid Mahmood said:


> View attachment 280977


looks fake to me
I have seen similar posers with gear ...
sorry

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## django

bloo said:


> Can anyone tell me which branch of special forces does the soldier below belong too?
> 
> View attachment 296225


Naval branch, a 15yr old pic

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## Irfan Baloch

the SSG guy telling the clueless fat guy about survival training.


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## WaLeEdK2

Irfan Baloch said:


> the SSG guy telling the clueless fat guy about survival training.
> 
> 
> View attachment 296412


He's not really fat though . Either way it's funny to see these reporters. You could tell they have no clue what the jawans are talking about. They always have to explain it to them.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

SSG - Shawal Ops;

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## ghazi52

.............................
"Man of Steel" Brigadier TM Shaheed at Cherat with General Shamim.

Brigadier T.M. Shaheed was a legendary soldier and lethal weapon of Pakistan Army. He was serving as the Commandant of Special Services Group. (SSG)





............

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## Zarvan

SSG uniform slightly changed ???????????
@DESERT FIGHTER @Horus @Oscar @balixd @Irfan Baloch @taimi Khan

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Irfan Baloch said:


> looks fake to me
> I have seen similar posers with gear ...
> sorry



Poser in expensive (hard to get) military gear .. Nah.. I got this pic from a reliable source.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> SSG uniform slightly changed ???????????
> @DESERT FIGHTER @Horus @Oscar @balixd @Irfan Baloch @taimi Khan



Seen quiet a few SSG guys wearing this camo/uniform .. I guess it's a more recent addition.

@Irfan Baloch Bro either close this thread.. Or merge it with ;

Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW. | Page 86

The above one is regularly updated unlike this one.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@Zarvan

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## Irfan Baloch

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Poser in expensive (hard to get) military gear .. Nah.. I got this pic from a reliable source.


seems very cheesy and unprofessional more movie like .. hence I commented. which is just an opinion
anyway merging as requested

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## Irfan Baloch

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> SSG - Shawal Ops;
> 
> View attachment 296743


super stuff

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Old SSG Pic ;


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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @Zarvan
> 
> View attachment 297070
> View attachment 297071


Can you explain why they have changed the upper jacked into Green and Arms are still camouflaged ?


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## Maarkhoor

Zarvan said:


> Can you explain why they have changed the upper jacked into Green and Arms are still camouflaged ?


Jackets for winter only.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

MaarKhoor said:


> Jackets for winter only.





MaarKhoor said:


> Jackets for winter only.



That's actually a shirt not a jacket... They US SF wear similiar camo.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

bloo said:


> Can anyone tell me which branch of special forces does the soldier below belong too?
> 
> View attachment 296225


That pic is pretty old; I think he either is a Marine or a SSGN


----------



## Soldier-X

not sure if this one a repost or old 




from north thunder exercise

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Fuk .. All hard work ... Wiped out!

....
*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Bahraini Seal graduates from PNS Iqbal - SSGN!




*

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## Jaanbaz

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 299991
> View attachment 299992
> 
> 
> *Bahraini Seal graduates from PNS Iqbal - SSGN!
> 
> View attachment 300002
> *



Don't you think our boys need to be a bit more buff?


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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat

View attachment 300006
View attachment 300007


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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Talwar e Pakistan

Jaanbaz said:


> Don't you think our boys need to be a bit more buff?


It depends on the unit and situation.


----------



## Zarvan

Jaanbaz said:


> Don't you think our boys need to be a bit more buff?


Well they need better optics and thermal image systems and other stuff.


----------



## Capt.Mir5832

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 300102


what is the name of the weapon that he is holding?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> Well they need better optics and thermal image systems and other stuff.



Which they already have.


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## ghazi52

."Man of Steel" Brigadier TM Shaheed at Cherat with General Shamim.

Brigadier T.M. Shaheed was a legendary soldier and lethal weapon of Pakistan Army. He was serving as the Commandant of Special Services Group. (SSG)
.

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## Slides

Jaanbaz said:


> Don't you think our boys need to be a bit more buff?


No. This isn't a bodybuilding competition. They are built for stamina, tactics and independent thinking. That's what leads to special forces success. They won't be showing off their bodies or lifting weights during an operation.

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## ghazi52



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## django

SSGN commando

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## DESERT FIGHTER

_*Some old pics;










*_

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Pics from 2014-15;









*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Before 2014;

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@T-55. Why don't you post here ?

New volunteers ;

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## T-55

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @T-55. Why don't you post here ?


I'm too slow.This tread is regularly updated,when i find photos or videos they are already posted.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

T-55 said:


> I'm too slow.This tread is regularly updated,when i find photos or videos they are already posted.



Come on man.. I see you posting everywhere except in these threads..

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## django

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @T-55. Why don't you post here ?
> 
> New volunteers ;
> 
> View attachment 302516
> View attachment 302517
> 
> 
> View attachment 302518


Saudi recruits in the background I presume


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

django said:


> Saudi recruits in the background I presume



Nooe .. PA volunteers...

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## DESERT FIGHTER

2015;











Old pics---

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## DESERT FIGHTER

8th Annual Warrior Competition;














*
Nice Modification of the Uniform...;*

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## Soldier-X



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## Soldier-X

SSW
Not sure if repost

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*PN VBSS













Marines;










SSGN;







*

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## Capt.Mir5832

What is the name of this rifle?

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## django

Soldier-X said:


> SSW
> Not sure if repost
> View attachment 307287


Guy in the far right corner certainly needs to cut down some calories.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Capt.Mir5832 said:


> What is the name of this rifle?



Truvelo BMG .50 Cal ..


----------



## Capt.Mir5832

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Truvelo BMG .50 Cal ..


Thanks


----------



## R Wing

Slides said:


> No. This isn't a bodybuilding competition. They are built for stamina, tactics and independent thinking. That's what leads to special forces success. They won't be showing off their bodies or lifting weights during an operation.



Muscular strength is also a very important part of it --- and if you look at most spec ops units worldwide, they tend to be better built. This is something I also noted in Wajahat S Khan's piece on Zarrar, one of our Tier 1 CT units. The guys definitely need to have a bit more muscle mass, and also cover their faces with balaclavas as is the norm with Tier 1 units!!!

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## Bossman

R Wing said:


> Muscular strength is also a very important part of it --- and if you look at most spec ops units worldwide, they tend to be better built. This is something I also noted in Wajahat S Khan's piece on Zarrar, one of our Tier 1 CT units. The guys definitely need to have a bit more muscle mass, and also cover their faces with balaclavas as is the norm with Tier 1 units!!!



Image does not win wars. Remember US with all its equipment lost to skinny fighters i.e. the Viet Cong wearing flip flops made from old tires and pajamas and the Russians lost to the Mujahideen living on a few pieces of bread and water for weeks. Your image of a good fighter is from the West and Hollywood movies. The West has lost the last two wars its started and is now sinking in the same quagmire it created, with waves on refugees washing up to its shores. Equipment especially at the personal level has very little to winning wars.

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## Bratva

R Wing said:


> Muscular strength is also a very important part of it --- and if you look at most spec ops units worldwide, they tend to be better built. This is something I also noted in Wajahat S Khan's piece on Zarrar, one of our Tier 1 CT units. The guys definitely need to have a bit more muscle mass, and also cover their faces with balaclavas as is the norm with Tier 1 units!!!



They dont give expensive protein supplements to the operators. Hence the less muscle mass.



Bossman said:


> Image does not win wars. Remember US with all its equipment lost to skinny fighters i.e. the Viet Cong wearing flip flops made from old tires and pajamas and the Russians lost to the Mujahideen living on a few pieces of bread and water for weeks. Your image of a good fighter is from the West and Hollywood movies. The West has lost the last two wars its started and is now sinking in the same quagmire it created, with waves on refugees washing up to its shores. Equipment especially at the personal level has very little to winning wars.



More muscle mass = Add value to shock and awe. When they suddenly comes upon the guy, would opponent fear a muscular man or a skinny guy ? Look at the build, workouts and supplements of Delta and Navy Seals of Americans.

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## Hell hound

Bratva said:


> They dont give expensive protein supplements to the operators. Hence the less muscle mass.
> 
> 
> 
> More muscle mass = Add value to shock and awe. When they suddenly comes upon the guy, would opponent will fear from a mascular man or a skinny guy ? Look at the build, workouts and suppliments of Delta and Navy Seals of Americans.


how expensive can it be to equip and maintain few hundred men we are talking about just the zarar company not whole ssgs?(i mean seriously sir i don't know the cost pls do share if you have the knowledge)


----------



## Bratva

Hell hound said:


> how expensive can it be to equip and maintain few hundred men we are talking about just the zarar company not whole ssgs?(i mean seriously sir i don't know the cost pls do share if you have the knowledge)



@Manticore might know about that as he used to do gym.

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## Hell hound

Manticore said:


> If an athlete weights 200 pounds, then he takes around 200 grams of protein / days. [ 2xbody wt in kg]
> 
> If he plans to lose or gain weight, then he can put target wt in above formula instead of existing wt
> 
> Total calories are then calculated from tdee calculator or simply , body wt in poundsx15= calories needed to maintain existing body
> 
> If he plans to lose or gain weight, then he can add or reduce 500 calories from above equation result
> 
> To reach 200 gm of protein, athletes might need 2 scoops of whey as a supplement.
> 
> General 200pound gym goer will take around 150 gm protein/day [ 1.5xbody wt in kg]
> 
> Cost of protein decreases drastically if bought in bulk
> 
> 
> what was your question?
> 
> Money to buy 2scoops protein / soldier?


diet, training and equipment cost per solider to make him equivalent to tier 1 special forces like seal team six
as @Bratva was saying that you can't have a good special force without proper build and some member above him was saying that you need proper equipment. we some what lack in both departments.so i was curious how much will it cost for a nation like Pakistan to equip our best teams (not the whole ssg) to the standard of seals team six

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## Hell hound

Manticore said:


> A 2pound jar will cost rs200/scoop -- same company's 5pound jar will cost 143rupees / scoop--- 8 pounder will cost rs100 to 120/scoop.
> 
> I am talking about international companies like gnc which charge 80% more money in pak, than what they charge in the u.s
> 
> 
> I can give you only nutritional advice of an athlete. I dont know what soldiers go through or from where to buy dumbells etc in bulk
> 
> 
> desi diet is shitty -- rarely has balanced macro nutrients


sorry sir but i was bit late i editing my post can you go through it again thanks



Manticore said:


> A 2pound jar will cost rs200/scoop -- same company's 5pound jar will cost 143rupees / scoop--- 8 pounder will cost rs100 to 120/scoop.
> 
> I am talking about international companies like gnc which charge 80% more money in pak, than what they charge in the u.s
> 
> 
> I can give you only nutritional advice of an athlete. I dont know what soldiers go through or from where to buy dumbells etc in bulk
> 
> 
> desi diet is shitty -- rarely has balanced macro nutrients


oh sorry for the confusion sir by equipment i ment NVG and thermal sights,bullet proof vest and bomb disposal robots etc


----------



## R Wing

Hell hound said:


> diet, training and equipment cost per solider to make him equivalent to tier 1 special forces like seal team six
> as @Bratva was saying that you can't have a good special force without proper build and some member above him was saying that you need proper equipment. we some what lack in both departments.so i was curious how much will it cost for a nation like Pakistan to equip our best teams (not the whole ssg) to the standard of seals team six



If the PA can't afford nutritional/dietary supplements for the entire army, or even the SSG (which I believe is Division sized) --- at least it should do it for the few highly selective (and very small) "Tier 1" units within the SSG umbrella like Zarrar, Karrar, SOTF, etc. The whole point of Tier 1 is that they are so selective that the unit size is very small --- this, in theory at least, makes it possible to equip them with the very best kit, experimental gear, world-class fitness programmes, etc.

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## Soldier-X

SSG-N

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## Capt.Mir5832

What is the difference between Karrar and zarrar?


----------



## Inception-06

django said:


> Guy in the far right corner certainly needs to cut down some calories.



from his uniform he looks like a reserve men !


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Soldier-X said:


> SSG??? seems edits....
> View attachment 311062




Definitely edited -- fake



Soldier-X said:


> SSG??? seems edits....
> View attachment 311062




Definitely edited -- fake


----------



## Irfan Baloch

Bratva said:


> More muscle mass = Add value to shock and awe. When they suddenly comes upon the guy, would opponent fear a muscular man or a skinny guy ? Look at the build, workouts and supplements of Delta and Navy Seals of Americans.


MUSCLE mass is not just for looks. it gives the endurance to the operator to swim , run walk climp for miles non-stop under adverse elemental or weather conditions. sometimes they have to carry their dead or injured comrades along with their kit as well to the extraction point and yes, in hand to hand combat after hours or days of fatigue only someone in a better / stronger physical condition will overpower his opponent. 
on the same subject I had a fruitless discussion with someone in this same thread who was adamant that a muscle mass and strength are irrelevant to special forces and only stopped short of saying that special ops gadgetry is such that all can be done on a PS4. I just responded once for the benefit of other readers but stopped further because it was waste of time.

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## ghazi52



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## Soldier-X



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## Windjammer



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## krash

Irfan Baloch said:


> MUSCLE mass is not just for looks. it gives the endurance to the operator to swim , run walk climp for miles non-stop under adverse elemental or weather conditions. sometimes they have to carry their dead or injured comrades along with their kit as well to the extraction point and yes, in hand to hand combat after hours or days of fatigue only someone in a better / stronger physical condition will overpower his opponent.
> on the same subject I had a fruitless discussion with someone in this same thread who was adamant that a muscle mass and strength are irrelevant to special forces and only stopped short of saying that special ops gadgetry is such that all can be done on a PS4. I just responded once for the benefit of other readers but stopped further because it was waste of time.



High muscle mass or bulk muscle is the incorrect term. I believe the term you were referring to is a lean physique or lean muscle mass. Without going into strength training vs weight training, high muscle mass is a net performance inhibitor, i.e. you can lift more but you cannot run well at all, your movement becomes sluggish and you get tired too fast due to the high energy requirements of your body, think Arnold Schwarzenegger here. This doesn't suit performance + endurance based endeavours, like being a soldier, very well. On the other hand lean muscle building enhances agility and endurance while trading lifting capacity, think Bruce Lee's physique here. This isn't optimal either. The optimal physique for a soldier is in between the two, think 100m sprinters. But there is one more question and that is of toning. Toning essentially means reducing fat while keeping high or lean muscle mass to either gain high definition and/or reduce weight. This results in the reduction of energy reserves for the body. This is good for a 100m sprinter but is not suited for a soldier. So what your really want in a soldier is a little bulked lean muscle with some fat reserves. 

This is a physique built for pure strength based performance (muscle bulk + fat),






This is one built for show (muscle bulk + low fat),






This is another built purely for show (lean muscle + low fat),






This is built for strength + athletic performance with low body mass (strength based bulked lean muscle + low fat),






And this is how soldiers should be built i.e. strength + agility + energy reserves (strength based bulked lean muscle + fat),

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## Irfan Baloch

krash said:


> High muscle mass or bulk muscle is the incorrect term. I believe the term you were referring to is a lean physique or lean muscle mass. Without going into strength training vs weight training, high muscle mass is a net performance inhibitor, i.e. you can lift more but you cannot run well at all, your movement becomes sluggish and you get tired too fast due to the high energy requirements of your body, think Arnold Schwarzenegger here. This doesn't suit performance + endurance based endeavours, like being a soldier, very well. On the other hand lean muscle building enhances agility and endurance while trading lifting capacity, think Bruce Lee's physique here. This isn't optimal either. The optimal physique for a soldier is in between the two, think 100m sprinters. But there is one more question and that is of toning. Toning essentially means reducing fat while keeping high or lean muscle mass to either gain high definition and/or reduce weight. This results in the reduction of energy reserves for the body. This is good for a 100m sprinter but is not suited for a soldier. So what your really want in a soldier is a little bulked lean muscle with some fat reserves.
> 
> This is a physique built for pure strength based performance (muscle bulk + fat),
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one built for show (muscle bulk + low fat),
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is another built purely for show (lean muscle + low fat),
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is built for strength + athletic performance with low body mass (strength based bulked lean muscle + low fat),
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is how soldiers should be built i.e. strength + agility + energy reserves (strength based bulked lean muscle + fat),


lets not screw the discussion you knew what i meant and definitely not the first 2 impractical abominations.


i am against loose bellies and skinny arms,

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## krash

Irfan Baloch said:


> lets not screw the discussion you knew what i meant and definitely not the first 2 impractical abominations.
> 
> 
> i am against loose bellies and skinny arms,



Not screwing the discussion. All of PDF actually believes that the monstrosities they see in Hollywood movies are actually what soldiers should look like and then a well known member such as you comes in and uses the term 'muscle mass' which was not accurate at all. Deserved an explanation for all those who've been complaining since ages on the forum that our special forces are too skinny. "Shock and Awe", "the build of Navy Seals".......

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## Irfan Baloch

krash said:


> Not screwing the discussion. All of PDF actually believes that the monstrosities they see in Hollywood movies are actually what soldiers should look like and then a well known member such as you comes in and uses the term 'muscle mass' which was not accurate at all. Deserved an explanation for all those who've been complaining since ages on the forum that our special forces are too skinny. "Shock and Awe", "the build of Navy Seals".......


the last two.. actually the last guy inshorts is just right. he has no cellolite, has good muscle tone and and show that his muscle mass (used for the lack of term) will enable him more endurance and punishment whatever the elements or hardships of the mission throw at him.. including heavy gear he might have to carry, injured or dead compare, carry, climb with or swim through in desert, marshes, rivers or hills.. forget hollywood just check out the body tone of the western soldiers.. americans get a lot of hate for their gadgets but boy they are tough.. and follow SOPs and war disciple to the book.. will pick up shovels and pick axes and will start digging trenches and filling up bags whatever the terrain.. . be it road side, mountains or deserts.. these are the comments from journalists and other soliders/ observers who have seen them.
few pictures above see that so called SSG guy with the rpg.. his tunny seems to be on the loose.. not very reassuring .


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## R Wing

krash said:


> Not screwing the discussion. All of PDF actually believes that the monstrosities they see in Hollywood movies are actually what soldiers should look like and then a well known member such as you comes in and uses the term 'muscle mass' which was not accurate at all. Deserved an explanation for all those who've been complaining since ages on the forum that our special forces are too skinny. "Shock and Awe", "the build of Navy Seals".......



I don't think "all of PDF" thinks that. Good job painting everyone in the same brushstroke. If we're nitpicking details, then the military guys you shared do have physiques with more "muscle mass" than our typical guys --- of course, as you said, it needs to be a mix of the right body fat %, endurance, etc. 

Also, there needs to be an emphasis on flexibility = "injury proofing." I remember reading about this guy in the States who trains elite NFL athletes and Tier 1 operators from Delta Force. He mentioned how the athlete needed to be in peak injury-proof form for just a few seasons, but the operator needed to maintain it for a decade or more. 

Another culture somewhat missing here is that Operators in the States take a lot of advantage of the private sector --- i.e. they'll get custom knives made, enroll in some exotic workout program, learn a unique martial art, etc., when not deployed. The Unit usually hooks it up.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Some old pics;

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## krash

Irfan Baloch said:


> the last two.. actually the last guy inshorts is just right. he has no cellolite, has good muscle tone and and show that his muscle mass (used for the lack of term) will enable him more endurance and punishment whatever the elements or hardships of the mission throw at him.. including heavy gear he might have to carry, injured or dead compare, carry, climb with or swim through in desert, marshes, rivers or hills.. forget hollywood just check out the body tone of the western soldiers.. americans get a lot of hate for their gadgets but boy they are tough.. and follow SOPs and war disciple to the book.. will pick up shovels and pick axes and will start digging trenches and filling up bags whatever the terrain.. . be it road side, mountains or deserts.. these are the comments from journalists and other soliders/ observers who have seen them.
> few pictures above see that so called SSG guy with the rpg.. his tunny seems to be on the loose.. not very reassuring .



True. I agree on the pictures above cent percent. I primarily wanted to clarify the confusion, if there was one, with regards to the usefulness of massive muscles' within the context of the workings of a military soldier.

That said, I must also add that some of the physiques shown in the pictures are a bit confusing to me. The routine training regimen of the SSG should in and of itself ensure men built like rocks. Some of the pictures do give that impression but then others do not. Due to that I've always wondered if it is a difference born out of the stage the soldier is at in his career in the SSG, e.g. cadets upon their graduation look little more than featherless chicks but then start gaining mass along their career. Another factor that might be contributing to the apparent lack of physical form is the attire of the said soldier. The optimal physical shape that we are talking about isn't exactly one which would look very pronounced from beneath the, hitherto, less crisp uniform and gear of our soldiers. Like this picture of Saudi special forces being trained by the SSG (they're no fine tuned performance machines like pushups world record holder Capt Muhammad Arbab from the last picture in my previous post but how many are?)






For example Captain Salman Farooq Shaheed in the picture below looks quite reasonable,






and in the one below looks anything but,






or these,






Vs these,






But then the jaw lines, neck width and forearm width usually do serve as good markers, like in these,









which are admittedly found lacking in some pictures. 

So I believe the apparent lesser physical shape in some of the pictures above is a mixture of a little bit of uniform, gear, body type and lack of muscle mass. As far as my personal experience is concerned, the two times that I've met SSG personnel, I was not left unimpressed. These guys were built like rocks, with grips made to break necks. But then again these guys had 'Koh Pehma' badges (some of them with 8000m summits, if I may add) and were only a handful out of the original pool. 

One interesting bit I remember reading somewhere about the Navy Seals was that experience and the tactical expertise derived from it are sought after the most which results in the selection of personnel who are older in age and lesser in physical form. Like this Delta Force operative,








R Wing said:


> I don't think "all of PDF" thinks that. Good job painting everyone in the same brushstroke. If we're nitpicking details, then the military guys you shared do have physiques with more "muscle mass" than our typical guys --- of course, as you said, it needs to be a mix of the right body fat %, endurance, etc.



-.- figure of speech mate.....

Also, if you put a shirt on the seals in the picture, their physique would look a lot less pronounced. However, this is not to contest the fact that our soldiers on the whole could do with purposed weight regimens. The rest in my above reply to Irfan Baloch.

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## krash

@Irfan Baloch @R Wing, At least not all is completely lost,
















Oh and the American operatives can at times not look impressive too (Delta Force),

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## R Wing

krash said:


> @Irfan Baloch @R Wing, At least not all is completely lost,



Right on, sir!

There are definitely some super fit special operators. 

That modeling tho...

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## janbazam53

Sid said:


> They look rough and tough; but their performance has not been that outstanding as you would expect from an &#39;Elite&#39; unit.
> 
> Ofcourse they&#39;ve had successes (they are expected to carry out the more dangerous missions which is why they are &#39;elite&#39 but it is the failures that troubles me.
> 
> During previous wars with India, quite a few missions failed and I just hope they&#39;ve learned from their mistakes.
> 
> Cheers.


ssg msns are not displayed publically..anonymity is their key to success..thats why you dont know their sussess storys


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## Irfan Baloch

krash said:


> @Irfan Baloch @R Wing, At least not all is completely lost,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and the American operatives can at times not look impressive too (Delta Force),


they dont even have to flex
their stance shows their physical peakness. how good and fluid they are.

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## Zarvan

Irfan Baloch said:


> they dont even have to flex
> their stance shows their physical peakness. how good and fluid they are.


But Army needs to create Gym atmosphere in Army I am not asking soldiers should become John Cena but they should have bodies which those who particpate in 100 meter race have


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## RAMPAGE

Zarvan said:


> But Army needs to create Gym atmosphere in Army I am not asking soldiers should become John Cena but they should have bodies which those who particpate in 100 meter race have


Bhai jan sirf weight lifting sai muscle nahi banta. Increase their protein intake along with other nutrients such as Iron and calcium to the recommended dose and see their bodies develop along with their endurance and stamina.

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## Zarvan

RAMPAGE said:


> Bhai jan sirf weight lifting sai muscle nahi banta. Increase their protein intake along with other nutrients such as Iron and calcium to the recommended dose and see their bodies develop along with their endurance and stamina.


When I say Gym culture I mean food also


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## Soldier-X



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## DESERT FIGHTER

One of the best pics of Pak SF... Kevlar protection for shoulder/upper arms 



Soldier-X said:


> View attachment 314123
> View attachment 314124
> View attachment 314125
> View attachment 314126
> View attachment 314127
> 
> 
> View attachment 314129
> View attachment 314130
> View attachment 314131



Some of these pics are from Yalghar movie -- last pic -- Shan ?
*

Note; These pics are years old not current..*

SSN







Another "old pic".. Probably 2+ years old..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Golden Owl - Kazakhistan;

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## ConcealCarry

"Muscle Mass" also requires more fuel to run, endurance has nothing to do with muscle mass, no marathon runner ever has substantial muscle mass and no one can beat them in endurance, strength is a different matter though, but in military you need endurance and mental strength more than anything else 




Irfan Baloch said:


> MUSCLE mass is not just for looks. it gives the endurance to the operator to swim , run walk climp for miles non-stop under adverse elemental or weather conditions. sometimes they have to carry their dead or injured comrades along with their kit as well to the extraction point and yes, in hand to hand combat after hours or days of fatigue only someone in a better / stronger physical condition will overpower his opponent.
> on the same subject I had a fruitless discussion with someone in this same thread who was adamant that a muscle mass and strength are irrelevant to special forces and only stopped short of saying that special ops gadgetry is such that all can be done on a PS4. I just responded once for the benefit of other readers but stopped further because it was waste of time.



Fail








DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Golden Owl - Kazakhistan;


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## Irfan Baloch

ConcealCarry said:


> "Muscle Mass" also requires more fuel to run, endurance has nothing to do with muscle mass, no marathon runner ever has substantial muscle mass and no one can beat them in endurance, strength is a different matter though, but in military you need endurance and mental strength more than anything else
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fail


lol its the unfortunate moment when the picture is snappped.. he is taking the spent clip out

re your commentary on musslce and endurance I agree in general. I already explained my lack of knowledge on the correct terms
I am against cellolite, loose bellies and thin arms .. thats all. @Zarvan is not impresed with the physique of our soldiers .. they are lean and very well defined .. they dont look massive but they have well defined muscles.. same goes with marrathon guys too .. they are not weak either but they cant do what short runners can do. like I already told the previous commentator I dont want us to screw this thread into an ANAL bittching.. about use of correct medical or psychical term..
.
from my own experience I can tell you that our yearly training brought us the required minimum among us.. but still some of us could do some more due to their core strength carry MG, equipment etc. (I am talking national guards nothing fancy here). yes special operations training and missions are a Marathon.. not a 100 meter dash. physical strength is small fraction of what is required of these extra ordinary individuals it is more mental strength and no quitting attitude.
I see people with a soldier eye and I can spot a genuine from a fake.. and someone who is on top of his game and who is lacking.
Nothing more to comment on this

over and out..


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## ConcealCarry

No he is not taking the mag out (clips either go inside a fixed mag like in M1 or load an external mag) , his finger is still pulling on the trigger and trying to squeeze in a fresh shot. This is not the position to either eject a spent mag or insert a new one. in another pic he is raking the slide and still holding the mag in his hand.



Irfan Baloch said:


> lol its the unfortunate moment when the picture is snappped.. he is taking the spent clip out
> 
> re your commentary on musslce and endurance I agree in general. I already explained my lack of knowledge on the correct terms
> I am against cellolite, loose bellies and thin arms .. thats all. @Zarvan is not impresed with the physique of our soldiers .. they are lean and very well defined .. they dont look massive but they have well defined muscles.. same goes with marrathon guys too .. they are not weak either but they cant do what short runners can do. like I already told the previous commentator I dont want us to screw this thread into an ANAL bittching.. about use of correct medical or psychical term..
> .
> from my own experience I can tell you that our yearly training brought us the required minimum among us.. but still some of us could do some more due to their core strength carry MG, equipment etc. (I am talking national guards nothing fancy here). yes special operations training and missions are a Marathon.. not a 100 meter dash. physical strength is small fraction of what is required of these extra ordinary individuals it is more mental strength and no quitting attitude.
> I see people with a soldier eye and I can spot a genuine from a fake.. and someone who is on top of his game and who is lacking.
> Nothing more to comment on this
> 
> over and out..


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## Soldier-X

SSGN





















*Old pic*... 
Weapon...HK UMP 40????

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## Zulfiqar

Soldier-X said:


> SSGN
> View attachment 315405
> View attachment 315406
> View attachment 315407
> View attachment 315408
> View attachment 315409
> View attachment 315410
> 
> 
> *Old pic*...
> Weapon...HK UMP 40????
> View attachment 315412




G 36C most probably (in last pic)


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## Soldier-X

Zulfiqar said:


> G 36C most probably (in last pic)


Well,yup, i guess,,,,
UMP 40,UMP 45 and G36 C looks similar on first look .....


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## Bratva



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## RedRock

Bratva said:


> View attachment 315489


Deep stuff. on a side note it would have been nice if they had made sure there were no spelling mistakes, and at least corrected it when they found it.


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## Amaa'n

Soldier-X said:


> Well,yup, i guess,,,,
> UMP 40,UMP 45 and G36 C looks similar on first look .....


In case of ump, magnsize is the give way....... You cannot go wrong with 45 mag and 556 mags...

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## Soldier-X



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## SSG commandos




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## Soldier-X

krash said:


> True. I agree on the pictures above cent percent. I primarily wanted to clarify the confusion, if there was one, with regards to the usefulness of massive muscles' within the context of the workings of a military soldier.
> 
> That said, I must also add that some of the physiques shown in the pictures are a bit confusing to me. The routine training regimen of the SSG should in and of itself ensure men built like rocks. Some of the pictures do give that impression but then others do not. Due to that I've always wondered if it is a difference born out of the stage the soldier is at in his career in the SSG, e.g. cadets upon their graduation look little more than featherless chicks but then start gaining mass along their career. Another factor that might be contributing to the apparent lack of physical form is the attire of the said soldier. The optimal physical shape that we are talking about isn't exactly one which would look very pronounced from beneath the, hitherto, less crisp uniform and gear of our soldiers. Like this picture of Saudi special forces being trained by the SSG (they're no fine tuned performance machines like pushups world record holder Capt Muhammad Arbab from the last picture in my previous post but how many are?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For example Captain Salman Farooq Shaheed in the picture below looks quite reasonable,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and in the one below looks anything but,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or these,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vs these,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But then the jaw lines, neck width and forearm width usually do serve as good markers, like in these,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which are admittedly found lacking in some pictures.
> 
> So I believe the apparent lesser physical shape in some of the pictures above is a mixture of a little bit of uniform, gear, body type and lack of muscle mass. As far as my personal experience is concerned, the two times that I've met SSG personnel, I was not left unimpressed. These guys were built like rocks, with grips made to break necks. But then again these guys had 'Koh Pehma' badges (some of them with 8000m summits, if I may add) and were only a handful out of the original pool.
> 
> One interesting bit I remember reading somewhere about the Navy Seals was that experience and the tactical expertise derived from it are sought after the most which results in the selection of personnel who are older in age and lesser in physical form. Like this Delta Force operative,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -.- figure of speech mate.....
> 
> Also, if you put a shirt on the seals in the picture, their physique would look a lot less pronounced. However, this is not to contest the fact that our soldiers on the whole could do with purposed weight regimens. The rest in my above reply to Irfan Baloch.


I don't know much about the effects of body size and physique in battlefield and during combate operations....But I always wanted to see our SSG guys musculare and biggers with better gear and attitude aswell... I think an average Soldier atleast in elite units of SSG and other SOFs should look like *This *....... specialy the size and physique wise

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## Zarvan

Soldier-X said:


> I don't know much about the effects of body size and physique in battlefield and during combate operations....But I always wanted to see our SSG guys musculare and biggers with better gear and attitude aswell... I think an average Soldier atleast in elite units of SSG and other SOFs should look like *This *....... specialy the size and physique wise
> 
> View attachment 316641


By the way Which Gun is this ? @Sulman Badshah @Tipu7


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## Sulman Badshah

Zarvan said:


> By the way Which Gun is this ? @Sulman Badshah @Tipu7


US navy seal MK 11

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## Soldier-X



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Do SSG(N) operators operate along the AF-PAK border on deputation?


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## Zarvan

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Do SSG(N) operators operate along the AF-PAK border on deputation?


Well I don't know that but I hope they do. Participation is this brutal and tough war will give lot of experience and Morale boost to our SSGN boys.

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## Windjammer



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## ghazi52

A legendary soldier "Man of Steel" Brigadier TM Shaheed....................

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Do SSG(N) operators operate along the AF-PAK border on deputation?



Yes they do.

Aswell as along Indo Pak border.

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## blain2

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Do SSG(N) operators operate along the AF-PAK border on deputation?


Speaking technically, SSG is not "deputed" to operate on our own borders. They are assigned missions and duties and they fulfill them. Deputation in the military has a very specific connotation which applies to loaning personnel of the armed forces on a temporary basis to another governmental department/agency or a foreign government.



Soldier-X said:


> View attachment 316791


The SSG has started using FN Minime in some numbers after switching from MG3 to PKM.



R Wing said:


> Muscular strength is also a very important part of it --- and if you look at most spec ops units worldwide, they tend to be better built. This is something I also noted in Wajahat S Khan's piece on Zarrar, one of our Tier 1 CT units. The guys definitely need to have a bit more muscle mass, and also cover their faces with balaclavas as is the norm with Tier 1 units!!!


Motay, skinny, muscular, lean, none of it matters if you are in any of the Special Service units of the sister services.

In these units, the common refrain is either you put out or you get out. There is no "room" given to any of the operators or officers if they are not meeting standards (this applies the same to the young 20 year old newly inducted operator or a seasoned lifer in the SSG in his 40s.) The chap you see with the big girth around his waist will give as much as the skinny chap next to him. You are running through mandatory obstacle courses which you have to clear, same goes for runs and route marches. At the end of the day, it is the personal responsibility of each jawan and officer to cater to whatever amount of weight he wants to put on those two legs of his. If he cannot meet standards (they are tough by any measure), he is out. Its a very black and white situation.

Some people have mesomorphic or endomorphic builds which means they are incredibly tough and strong but will always look fat. Others will be wiry and tough but will not put on a lot of muscle and mass. This has a lot to do with our environment, climate and the diet.

The purpose of the SF is not to put out gladiators. It is about taking a half decent soldier and giving him the psychological drive and motivation to overcome challenges. Trust me on this that more muscular tees maar khans have failed the SSG qualification tests than the skinny, wiry types. Its about being physically fit and mentally tough. You need not be the strongest physically, but certainly strong enough to carry yourself and your load and then have the mental resiliency to weather whatever comes your way. This is what makes the troops special.

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## cerberus

blain2 said:


> Speaking technically, SSG is not "deputed" to operate on our own borders. They are assigned missions and duties and they fulfill them. Deputation in the military has a very specific connotation which applies to loaning personnel of the armed forces on a temporary basis to another governmental department/agency or a foreign government.
> 
> 
> The SSG has started using FN Minime in some numbers after switching from MG3 to PKM.
> 
> 
> Motay, skinny, muscular, lean, none of it matters if you are in any of the Special Service units of the sister services.
> 
> In these units, the common refrain is either you put out or you get out. There is no "room" given to any of the operators or officers if they are not meeting standards (this applies the same to the young 20 year old newly inducted operator or a seasoned lifer in the SSG in his 40s.) The chap you see with the big girth around his waist will give as much as the skinny chap next to him. You are running through mandatory obstacle courses which you have to clear, same goes for runs and route marches. At the end of the day, it is the personal responsibility of each jawan and officer to cater to whatever amount of weight he wants to put on those two legs of his. If he cannot meet standards (they are tough by any measure), he is out. Its a very black and white situation.
> 
> Some people have mesomorphic or endomorphic builds which means they are incredibly tough and strong but will always look fat. Others will be wiry and tough but will not put on a lot of muscle and mass. This has a lot to do with our environment, climate and the diet.
> 
> The purpose of the SF is not to put out gladiators. It is about taking a half decent soldier and giving him the psychological drive and motivation to overcome challenges. Trust me on this that more muscular tees maar khans have failed the SSG qualification tests than the skinny, wiry types. Its about being physically fit and mentally tough. You need not be the strongest physically, but certainly strong enough to carry yourself and your load and then have the mental resiliency to weather whatever comes your way. This is what makes the troops special.


Guys like you are 
Rare breed on PDF my friend 
Rationality and reasoning Always has a virtue at last

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## Reichsmarschall

Soldier-X said:


> here is another one from the shooting of movie Yalgar
> View attachment 109777


When this movie will release??
@Horus


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## Soldier-X

SSG Zarrar

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## DESERT FIGHTER

http://www.dawn.com/news/1279902/pakistan-army-wins-international-sniping-competition-in-beijing


RAWALPINDI: Pakistan Army soldiers have won an international sniping and shooting competition in Beijing, said the Inter-Services Public Relations on Thursday. 

The team representing Pakistan Army secured first position in all individual and team events. 



Naik Arshad was declared the best sniper in the competition, which was attended by 21 teams representing 14 countries.



In July, a Pakistan Air Force (PAF) C-130 Hercules transport aircraft won the Concours D’ Elegance trophy at the Royal International Air Tattoo (RIAT) Show 2016 at Royal Air Force Base Fair Ford in the United Kingdom.

More than 200 aircraft from 50 countries participated in the competition, with the Pakistani contingent stealing the show and winning the trophy. 

Last year, a team of Pakistan Army won the gold medal in the premier patrolling event of the British Army - Exercise Cambrian Patrol - beating around 140 teams from armies across the globe.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Indonesian Naval Special Warfare KOPASKA and Pakistan SSG N are conducting 10 days joint exercise*
















*
The next joint ex will be held in Pakistan.*

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## mingle

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 329498
> View attachment 329499
> View attachment 329500
> 
> 
> *Indonesian Naval Special Warfare KOPASKA and Pakistan SSG N are conducting 10 days joint exercise*
> 
> 
> View attachment 329501
> View attachment 329502
> View attachment 329503
> View attachment 329504
> 
> 
> *
> The next joint ex will be held in Pakistan.*


So Israeli snipers will come to Pak ?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

mingle said:


> So Israeli snipers will come to Pak ?



I was talking about SSGN & KOPASKA joint ex.

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## Zarrar Alvi

*VINTAGE IMAGES OF SSG COMMANDOS 1984*

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## hkdas

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1225755210789433

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## Windjammer



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*SSG & US SF ex;













*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*SSG







SSW;




*

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *SSG
> 
> View attachment 335859
> 
> 
> SSW;
> 
> View attachment 335860
> *


The first picture is definitely not SSG. He is some Chinese looking guy. Most probably from South Korea or similar


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> The first picture is definitely not SSG. He is some Chinese looking guy. Most probably from South Korea or similar



What if i told you that he is SSG ?

I have another pic somewhere of him from mid 2000 operations.

And he's not Chinese .. Rather an officer of Hazara origin.

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## Salahuddin Ayubi

Narendra Trump said:


> When this movie will release??
> @Horus



2017


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

@Zarvan

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> What if i told you that he is SSG ?
> 
> I have another pic somewhere of him from mid 2000 operations.
> 
> And he's not Chinese .. Rather an officer of Hazara origin.


Okay by the way is this Gun M4 ? Because M4 has different magazine


----------



## Amaa'n

Zarvan said:


> Okay by the way is this Gun M4 ? Because M4 has different magazine


what different mag??? care to enlighten me please??


----------



## Sine Nomine

@DESERT FIGHTER man can you provide come account about Captain Chengazi from SSG,probably he died along with his team in NW Pakistan but not before he and his 20 men team managed to slaughter over 150 tali dogs.

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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> what different mag??? care to enlighten me please??







Colt M4 magazine looks like this mostly but that in picture is long and straight not curved


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> Colt M4 magazine looks like this mostly but that in picture is long and straight not curved



Chacha Ji you can buy different "shaped" Mags.. Apart from mags with more capacity for M-4;

Few mags available online;

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## django

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 335872
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Zarvan


He looks pure badass ...hell so does the other chap.

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## Bratva

قناص said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER man can you provide come account about Captain Chengazi from SSG,probably he died along with his team in NW Pakistan but not before he and his 20 men team managed to slaughter over 150 tali dogs.



Any account on internet or mention of Captain chengazi in press ? Because 20 SSG deaths in One ops can not remain hidden

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## Sine Nomine

Bratva said:


> Any account on internet or mention of Captain chengazi in press ? Because 20 SSG deaths in One ops can not remain hidden


That's what I am searching for.


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## Umair Nawaz

Zarvan said:


> The first picture is definitely not SSG. He is some Chinese looking guy. Most probably from South Korea or similar


look at this arm, u can see a small chand sitara.


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## Soldier-X

قناص said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER man can you provide come account about Captain Chengazi from SSG,probably he died along with his team in NW Pakistan but not before he and his 20 men team managed to slaughter over 150 tali dogs.





Bratva said:


> Any account on internet or mention of Captain chengazi in press ? Because 20 SSG deaths in One ops can not remain hidden


You mean Captain Shoaib Changezi?


----------



## WaLeEdK2

SSG Zarrar

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## Soldier-X

*SSW




*

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## Amaa'n

Windjammer said:


> View attachment 339958


as a fanart yes- otherwise this isn't Pak SOF --- looks airsofter to me

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## LadyFinger

Good fan art foreplay.


Windjammer said:


> View attachment 339958


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## Windjammer

balixd said:


> as a fanart yes- otherwise this isn't Pak SOF --- looks airsofter to me


Did a google search, led me to.... Best guess for this image: pakistan ssg commandos


----------



## Irfan Baloch

Windjammer said:


> View attachment 339958


not us 
the guy is cocasion. the gear is not ours either.. please dont post photoshoped images.. they degrade the thread


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## Windjammer

Irfan Baloch said:


> not us
> the guy is cocasion. the gear is not ours either.. please dont post photoshoped images.. they degrade the thread



Deleted.

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## Soldier-X

*SSG-N















*

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## Dirtdiver

A photo of memory of a national hero from an exercise with Pakistani Army special forces.



























Astsubay Master Sergeant Ömer Halisdemir was a Turkish special forces soldier. He killed the coupist special force general all alone in the middle of his 15-20 protectors. When he took the shot to the forehead of the coupist general Tugg. Semih Terzi who was in favor of the islamic cleric F. Gülen who is now Turkey's most wanted fugitive; he was soon fired upon by many with automatic rifles.

By killing the coup general he changed the outcome at that night.

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## django

Dirtdiver said:


> A photo of memory of a national hero from an exercise with Pakistani Army special forces.
> 
> 
> View attachment 340548
> 
> 
> Astsubay Master Sergeant Ömer Halisdemir was a Turkish special forces soldier. He killed the coupist special force general all alone in the middle of his 15-20 protectors. When he took the shot to the forehead of the coupist general Tugg. Semih Terzi who was in favor of the islamic cleric F. Gülen who is now Turkey's most wanted fugitive; he was soon fired upon by many with automatic rifles.
> 
> By killing the coup general he changed the outcome at that night.


A brave soldier indeed.nice share

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*SSGN and Russian Naval Special forces exercise 2015 :









*

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## AMG_12



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Game.Invade said:


>



Pics look like from 2012?

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## AMG_12

Yes "2012-2015" mainly from Ork and Khyber. Do you mind if I upload more from the period 2009-2014 ?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Old pics of SOG,SOW









*



Game.Invade said:


> Yes, mainly from Ork and Khyber. Do you mind if I upload more from the period 2009-2014 ?



Please go ahead bro... just mention the dates..

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## AMG_12

First to dive, Musa Coy, Attabad lake, Ganish.

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## django

Game.Invade said:


> Yes "2012-2015" mainly from Ork and Khyber. Do you mind if I upload more from the period 2009-2014 ?


Please do sir.Kudos

@DESERT FIGHTER which unit is SOG and SOW.

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## AMG_12

django said:


> Please do sir.Kudos
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER which unit is SOG and SOW.


SOG is the Commando Wing of FC KPK, SOW is the Commando wing of FC Balochistan.

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## AMG_12



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## AMG_12



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## AMG_12



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## Black Ops

Assalam Alaikum
Can a graduate who has just passed out from PMA apply for OACC or does he have to serve in the army for some certain time duration after which he becomes eligible? Is there any age limit to volunteer for OACC at SSG school?

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/how-to-become-a-ssg-information.12394/page-3#ixzz4Oyih8Jxh


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## django

Black Ops said:


> Assalam Alaikum
> Can a graduate who has just passed out from PMA apply for OACC or does he have to serve in the army for some certain time duration after which he becomes eligible? Is there any age limit to volunteer for OACC at SSG school?
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/how-to-become-a-ssg-information.12394/page-3#ixzz4Oyih8Jxh


You have to spend a minimum of 2 years in service in order to be eligible for SSG selection.Kudos


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## Black Ops

django said:


> You have to spend a minimum of 2 years in service in order to be eligible for SSG selection.Kudos


Jazak Allah
And is there any age limit? I read somewhere that you cant volunteer after 25 years of age. I hope thats not true!


----------



## Black Ops

Anyone plz? Is there any age limit for volunteering in the OACC course?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

*SSGN & Russian SF - 2015




*

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## AMG_12

Musa Coy at Mangla Lake and Attabad Lake.

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Talwar e Pakistan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 352833
> 
> View attachment 352834


@Zarvan


----------



## Amaa'n

Black Ops said:


> Anyone plz? Is there any age limit for volunteering in the OACC course?


that is for jcos


----------



## AMG_12

SOG - 2016

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## django

Game.Invade said:


> SOG - 2016


Why are we still using black bulletproof vests, why not provide some that provide appropriate camouflage.

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## AMG_12

django said:


> Why are we still using black bulletproof vests, why not provide some that provide appropriate camouflage.


You don't just dispose of old ones for the sake of camouflage schemes. With time, these will improve. We still have helmets in use from the 80s. Currently, a big chunk of FC fund is being invested to improve its infrastructure and mobility.

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## Slides

django said:


> Why are we still using black bulletproof vests, why not provide some that provide appropriate camouflage.



They're not bullet proof vests. They are load bearing vests and they don't grow on trees. We are a poor country and not everything will ever be standardized in cammo for each service.

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## Zarvan

Game.Invade said:


> SOG - 2016



When on earth we would get rid of these Toyota Trucks and it's time that all of these Para Military Forces are given under one command.


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## AMG_12

Zarvan said:


> When on earth we would get rid of these Toyota Trucks and it's time that all of these Para Military Forces are given under one command.


FC has improved many folds in the past few years than the last few decades. You don't really know the dynamics of a modern army. Many ISAF armies deployed Land Rover Defenders in Afghanistan. FC is finally getting its due share in the budget thus we are seeing a very swift improvement in the overall command and structure. FC do deploy armored vehicles in sensitive areas.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

please keep thread open


----------



## django

@Sarge @Ulla @DESERT FIGHTER @Zibago @The Sandman

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## django

@Moonlight @Hell hound

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## Moonlight

django said:


> @Moonlight @Hell hound



Thank you for the tag bro. I was thinking to find today's show.

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## Signalian

django said:


> @Sarge @Ulla @DESERT FIGHTER @Zibago @The Sandman



Col didnt comment on Baluch police because Police isnt his domain. baluch police is mixed with FC to perform duty because so far its an incapable force.

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## khanasifm

I read somewhere 100 t59 were refurbished and handed over FC kpk and baluchistan old report so may be more than 100 were provided HIT annual report for 2012/13 or so

Also they have now medium artillery 130mm guns instead of old 25 pounders

So both may have 4 sqn of tanks and 1 or 2 battalion 24-48 medium guns deployed all over the border to provide cover to forward posts , artillery is my guess and may be more not counting army units

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## django

Sarge said:


> Col didnt comment on Baluch police because Police isnt his domain. baluch police is mixed with FC to perform duty because so far its an incapable force.


They sure are being imparted with some much needed training.Kudos Sarge.

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## Inception-06

Game.Invade said:


> FC has improved many folds in the past few years than the last few decades. You don't really know the dynamics of a modern army. Many ISAF armies deployed Land Rover Defenders in Afghanistan. FC is finally getting its due share in the budget thus we are seeing a very swift improvement in the overall command and structure. FC do deploy armored vehicles in sensitive areas.



thx for the Clearance and information. 
Does the gun function?



khanasifm said:


> I read somewhere 100 t59 were refurbished and handed over FC kpk and baluchistan old report so may be more than 100 were provided HIT annual report for 2012/13 or so
> 
> Also they have now medium artillery 130mm guns instead of old 25 pounders
> 
> So both may have 4 sqn of tanks and 1 or 2 battalion 24-48 medium guns deployed all over the border to provide cover to forward posts , artillery is my guess and may be more not counting army units



I can also confirm that the FC operates the Type-59 IIM with 105 and 125mm cannon, was many time presented on parades!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ulla said:


> thx for the Clearance and information.
> Does the gun function?
> 
> 
> 
> I can also confirm that the FC operates the Type-59 IIM with 105 and 125mm cannon, was many time presented on parades!



That's a 30mm canon.

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## Khafee

Ulla said:


> thx for the Clearance and information.
> *Does the gun function?*
> 
> !



Weird question bro.

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## Inception-06

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> That's a 30mm canon.



I know, that, this vehicle's were imported decades ago from west Germany, I have never seen 30mm ammo in Pak army inventory that is, why I am asking.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ulla said:


> I know, that, this vehicle's were imported decades ago from west Germany, I have never seen 30mm ammo in Pak army inventory that is, why I am asking.



Saw these armed with AGLs too...

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## Signalian

khanasifm said:


> I read somewhere 100 t59 were refurbished and handed over FC kpk and baluchistan old report so may be more than 100 were provided HIT annual report for 2012/13 or so
> 
> Also they have now medium artillery 130mm guns instead of old 25 pounders
> 
> So both may have 4 sqn of tanks and 1 or 2 battalion 24-48 medium guns deployed all over the border to provide cover to forward posts , artillery is my guess and may be more not counting army units



FC was given heavy weaponry (tanks, artillery etc) to take on FATA region assault tasks of regular army in case army needs to leave the ops area midway during operation and head towards Indian border when escalation occurs. Otherwise the threat in baluchistan is of a different nature than FATA.

MRAPs should be given to FC as first priority. 

Quad-copters type very small surveillance drones as second priority, Instead of a sniper team, a small quad-copter can also give a quick view of the situation. It risks being shot down so it can be take videos hovering just above tree tops or peering above or between trees branches or even roof tops of buildings etc. It also cannot fire at the enemy unlike a sniper but if its shot down, no life is lost, equipment can be replaced.

Street and urban ops on motorbikes are dangerous but there is no other alternative as such. A national dilemma is prohibition of two riders biking on certain days of a year. Body armour can save a soldier from lethal shots but thighs, legs and arms are still exposed. The first rider cannot fire till he stops the bike. The second stands up on bike rear footrest to fire his weapon. Not really safe in either condition. If bike slips, both receive injuries. In a street or urban area, its easier to handle a side-arm like pistol rather than an assault rifle. Probably Uzi type weapon is a good choice.

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## Inception-06

django said:


> @Sarge @Ulla @DESERT FIGHTER @Zibago @The Sandman




A excellent show for the public consumer, aj kie message: Pakistan ek raih ga, Baluchistan ek raih ga, Fauj ek rai hi ghi ! Zabardast Mr. Khan keep on !



Sarge said:


> FC was given heavy weaponry (tanks, artillery etc) to take on FATA region assault tasks of regular army in case army needs to leave the ops area midway during operation and head towards Indian border when escalation occurs. Otherwise the threat in baluchistan is of a different nature than FATA.
> 
> MRAPs should be given to FC as first priority.
> 
> Quad-copters type very small surveillance drones as second priority, Instead of a sniper team, a small quad-copter can also give a quick view of the situation. It risks being shot down so it can be take videos hovering just above tree tops or peering above or between trees branches or even roof tops of buildings etc. It also cannot fire at the enemy unlike a sniper but if its shot down, no life is lost, equipment can be replaced.
> 
> Street and urban ops on motorbikes are dangerous but there is no other alternative as such. A national dilemma is prohibition of two riders biking on certain days of a year. Body armour can save a soldier from lethal shots but thighs, legs and arms are still exposed. The first rider cannot fire till he stops the bike. The second stands up on bike rear footrest to fire his weapon. Not really safe in either condition. If bike slips, both receive injuries. In a street or urban area, its easier to handle a side-arm like pistol rather than an assault rifle. Probably Uzi type weapon is a good choice.



Every special branch in police and Military needs his own rotary wing, 2-3 Mi-17 Helicopters, of course, all under the command and structure of the Army aviation but, permanent based on the home bases of the special Forces , like SWF (special wing frontier corps Baluchistan; KPK Elite Police, SSU -Sind special police, Punjab Elite Police, CTD counter-terrorism department. Of course, you are, right there is still left a lot of work, but that need also a lot of funds, if the enemy can invest 400 Million just to create havoc in Quetta, how much blood and money we must and can throw in the battle? I think we still can do much more....

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## AMG_12

Ulla said:


> thx for the Clearance and information.
> Does the gun function?
> 
> 
> 
> I can also confirm that the FC operates the Type-59 IIM with 105 and 125mm cannon, was many time presented on parades!


Yes, it functions. But they are deployed for point defence and not urban warfare which is why we never see them in action.

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## AMG_12

WOT - 2011-2014

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## AMG_12



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## Inception-06

Game.Invade said:


> Yes, it functions. But they are deployed for point defence and not urban warfare which is why we never see them in action.




I have seen them in action, captured by TTP very old Video and then some years later used in an offensive against TTP in FATA!

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## muhammadali233

They guy on the left is wearing a different camo?Never seen before with the SSG?used by some other spec ops forces?

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## pzfz

afghan army pants

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## Zarvan

pzfz said:


> afghan army pants


Why would Pakistani soldier use Afghan Army pants ???


----------



## pzfz

Might not even be Pak, maybe here for cross-training.

Or maybe prep for cross-border blackops

treasure trove of pak army/ssg photos on instagram. i'm fine with it if ispr hasn't done anything about it. active-duty personnel posting pics available on instagram. click here. and here.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

@Horus remember I told u the pic is of SSG.. You didn't agree at the time.

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## django

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 373481
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 373480
> @Horus remember I told u the pic is of SSG.. You didn't agree at the time.


I was told they were Colombians but I can spot my countrymen a mile away, I always believed these chaps were Pakistani.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

django said:


> I was told they were Colombians but I can spot my countrymen a mile away, I always believed these chaps were Pakistani.


Told em the camo shirts,backpacks and kits are used only by SSG.

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## R Wing

Just curious --- why doesn't Pakistan practice face-covering/blurring for its special operators (as is the norm globally)? 

Even Zarrar guys often have uncovered faces --- WTF?!

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## Readerdefence

R Wing said:


> Just curious --- why doesn't Pakistan practice face-covering/blurring for its special operators (as is the norm globally)?
> 
> Even Zarrar guys often have uncovered faces --- WTF?!


Might not be the latest pictures I guess but your are right should have used balaclava

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## ghazi52



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## Slides

R Wing said:


> Just curious --- why doesn't Pakistan practice face-covering/blurring for its special operators (as is the norm globally)?
> 
> Even Zarrar guys often have uncovered faces --- WTF?!



Why should they? Most of them will never be involved in undercover ops. The ones that are, you will likely never see their pics online.


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## R Wing

Slides said:


> Why should they? Most of them will never be involved in undercover ops. The ones that are, you will likely never see their pics online.



One can reasonably assume that "special operations forces" would be involved in undercover ops. 

Zarrar is often involved in undercover ops. My wife's _mamu_ was a Zarrar operator before going on to serve in two hardcore ISI wings --- I asked him the same question and he was genuinely surprised that there were Zarrar people (and other active duty spec ops guys) with their faces uncovered / unblurred in pictures.

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## ghazi52

*Special Service Group*

Pakistani special forces have 8 battalions:

1 Commando Battalion (Yaldram)
2 Commando Battalion (Rahber)
3 Commando Battalion (Powindahs) - Special Operations Battalion
4 Commando Battalion (Yalghar)
5 Commando Battalion (Zilzaal)
6 Commando Battalion (Al-Samsaam)
7 Commando Battalion (Babrum)
8 Commando Battalion (Al-Azb)

Each battalion consists of 700 men in four companies, with each company split into platoons and then into 10-man teams. Battalions are commanded by Lieutenant Colonels

Plus two independent commando companies:

Musa Company - Specializes in Amphibious Operations
Zarrar Company - Specializes in Counter-terrorism


----------



## ghazi52

-16 degree And SSG training..

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## Slides

R Wing said:


> One can reasonably assume that "special operations forces" would be involved in undercover ops.
> 
> Zarrar is often involved in undercover ops. My wife's _mamu_ was a Zarrar operator before going on to serve in two hardcore ISI wings --- I asked him the same question and he was genuinely surprised that there were Zarrar people (and other active duty spec ops guys) with their faces uncovered / unblurred in pictures.



Zarrar is a much smaller portion of the SSG. Most in the SSG will not be involved in undercover ops.


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## R Wing

Slides said:


> Zarrar is a much smaller portion of the SSG. Most in the SSG will not be involved in undercover ops.



Agreed, except that I've seen Zarrar guys with their faces uncovered both in video and pictures...

Also, most SSG should be available for undercover ops that require assumed identities --- which becomes harder when your face is on the internet.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154525702774527





Winter training exercises of Special Combat Unit (SCU) in the extreme weather conditions of the Northern areas (10.02.17)

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## ghazi52

A very rare picture of Brig. Sultan Amir Tarrar Shaheed (known as Col. Imam) SSG & ISI (The Ustaad) 1974.

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## Rajput Warrior



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## PAKjunoon

Can people from accounts branch join ssw? 
If yes, then what is the age limit?


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## khanasifm

ghazi52 said:


> *Special Service Group*
> 
> Pakistani special forces have 8 battalions:
> 
> 1 Commando Battalion (Yaldram)
> 2 Commando Battalion (Rahber)
> 3 Commando Battalion (Powindahs) - Special Operations Battalion
> 4 Commando Battalion (Yalghar)
> 5 Commando Battalion (Zilzaal)
> 6 Commando Battalion (Al-Samsaam)
> 7 Commando Battalion (Babrum)
> 8 Commando Battalion (Al-Azb)
> 
> Each battalion consists of 700 men in four companies, with each company split into platoons and then into 10-man teams. Battalions are commanded by Lieutenant Colonels
> 
> Plus two independent commando companies:
> 
> Musa Company - Specializes in Amphibious Operations
> Zarrar Company - Specializes in Counter-terrorism




*Went from Brigade (3-5 Battalions) to Division led by Maj Gen. so new battalions raised *

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## ghazi52



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## Signalian

ghazi52 said:


>


Aye @ghazi52 , yeh teray purasrar banday, jinhay tu ne bakhsha hay zoq-e-ssg

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## django

@Signalian @Zibago @The Sandman @Hell hound @Moonlight

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## ghazi52

Jump From Plane SSG Commandos Pakistan Training


----------



## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154732797347663

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## Soldier-X



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## OgaBoga

which one are better? SSG or SSW....


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## Soldier-X



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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Soldier-X



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Soldier-X said:


> View attachment 385938


very old (and reposted) training pic.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Unknowncommando

Some random pakistani guy sent me these pictures of SSG on fb.
I hope these are not posted before.

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## Kompromat

That is a Sagem thermal sight integrated on AW. Truly a deadly combo.

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## Fledgingwings

Men of steel ! you would never like to mess with these guys.ABSOLUTELY NOT......

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## ghazi52



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## DESERT FIGHTER

ghazi52 said:


>


old and reposts

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## ghazi52

Deal with it............

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## saumyasupratik

Horus said:


> That is a Sagem thermal sight integrated on AW. Truly a deadly combo.



It's actually the PAS-13Ev(3) HTWS.

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## Path-Finder

Horus said:


> That is a Sagem thermal sight integrated on AW. Truly a deadly combo.


Its Not Sagem!






Its Raytheon!

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## ghazi52

Golden Jubilee of Pakistan Navy's Special Services Group 
1967-2017

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## Pak_Track

SSG adaptation drawn by my 11 year old sister.









Original below:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b9/bc/7d/b9bc7d5f2a2a43e1d0ae52e1a3a402cd.jpg

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## django

Pak_Track said:


> SSG adaptation drawn by my 11 year old sister.
> 
> View attachment 387583
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Original below:
> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b9/bc/7d/b9bc7d5f2a2a43e1d0ae52e1a3a402cd.jpg


Fine effort.Kudos
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b9/bc/7d/b9bc7d5f2a2a43e1d0ae52e1a3a402cd.jpg

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## Kompromat

Can we post it on our page? 



Pak_Track said:


> SSG adaptation drawn by my 11 year old sister.
> 
> View attachment 387583
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Original below:
> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b9/bc/7d/b9bc7d5f2a2a43e1d0ae52e1a3a402cd.jpg

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## RealNapster

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 386208
> View attachment 386209
> View attachment 386210
> 
> Some random pakistani guy sent me these pictures of SSG on fb.
> I hope these are not posted before.



The sight in the first picture is from SHIBLI , right ?

@DESERT FIGHTER .


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## Path-Finder

RealNapster said:


> The sight in the first picture is from SHIBLI , right ?
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER .


No Its Raytheon
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...ssg-ssgn-ssw-sow.113616/page-186#post-9330046

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## RealNapster

Path-Finder said:


> No Its Raytheon
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...ssg-ssgn-ssw-sow.113616/page-186#post-9330046



Thanks bro.


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## AMG_12

Zarvan said:


>


Regular, not SOF.

LCB

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## Zarvan

Game.Invade said:


> Regular, not SOF.
> 
> LCB


Are these Pakistani made vests

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## AMG_12

T


Zarvan said:


> Are these Pakistani made vests


Yes, almost all the gear is locally sourced. Some BPJs are also purchased from a UAE based company.

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## Zarvan

Game.Invade said:


> T
> 
> Yes, almost all the gear is locally sourced. Some BPJs are also purchased from a UAE based company.


Well good to hear that and quality is also looking good. We need to increase bullet proof vests production

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## Kompromat



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Old pics of SSGN















SSGN training in the Arabian;











SSW (old pic)







LCB (old training pic)




*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

old pics of SSG;

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## Rocky rock



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Rocky rock said:


> View attachment 389424
> 
> View attachment 389429
> 
> 
> View attachment 389432




First pic (posted by me and several others, years ago.. originally from swat operations 2007).

2nd pic : again posted by me years ago on previous pages.. from Jordan, King Abdullah SF training Center.

3rd pic : 10 years old posted by me in 2009.

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## Rocky rock

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> First pic (posted by me and several others, years ago.. originally from swat operations 2007).
> 
> 2nd pic : again posted by me years ago on previous pages.. from Jordan, King Abdullah SF training Center.
> 
> 3rd pic : 10 years old posted by me in 2009.
> 
> View attachment 389433



lolx you've joined PDF 7 years ago how come u post that pic 10 years ago?  and the pics i'm posting are those which i'm getting through my page followers on FB. so please stay calm and have patience.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Rocky rock said:


> lolx you've joined PDF 7 years ago how come u post that pic 10 years ago?  and the pics i'm posting are those which i'm getting through my page followers on FB. so please stay calm and have patience.



I have another ID, (whose password I forgot - as I didn't use it for an year) I joined in 2007.

When we had members like solid snake,JK, choggy and others.


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## Rocky rock

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I have another ID, (whose password I forgot - as I didn't use it for an year) I joined in 2007.
> 
> When we had members like solid snake,JK, choggy and others.



That's my boy same story here. i've joined PDF in late 2006 with name of 786Rocky which i forgot too. i'm one of old members of PDF when there wasn't even a single thread running. but never revealed my id. so i've seen everything since then and when you showed up i know every senior member of this forum. so keep the motion down pal.

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## ghazi52



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## Readerdefence

ghazi52 said:


>


Captain must be undercover for some special mission otherwise haircut can't be 
Like that


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## The Fist



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## AMG_12

Readerdefence said:


> Captain must be undercover for some special mission otherwise haircut can't be
> Like that


Haircut isn't a necessity at all. İt helps in blending with the public as well as going undercover. Except for the training period, SOF operators aren't supposed to look like SOF operators.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

Skydiving over Quetta


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## The Fist



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## ghazi52



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## Zarvan

Al Zarrar coz background is famous training centre of SAS???

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## ghazi52



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## Readerdefence

Any learned member can shed some light 
Difference between LCB & SSG
Are they both at par ?


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## django

Readerdefence said:


> Any learned member can shed some light
> Difference between LCB & SSG
> Are they both at par ?


LCB are more like traditional commandos whilst SSG have a vast array of skills that are catered for unconventional warfare ie hostage rescue, training guerrillas, undercover assignments, close-protection, sabotage etc

@DESERT FIGHTER @Signalian

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## ghazi52



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## Pak_Track

Horus said:


> Can we post it on our page?


Sorry for the late reply, I've seen it on the page. She's quite happy. Thank you!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Readerdefence said:


> Any learned member can shed some light
> Difference between LCB & SSG
> Are they both at par ?


 US Ranger vs US Green Berets.

Now swap LCB for Rangers and SSG for Green Berets.

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## JPMM

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> US Ranger vs US Green Berets.
> 
> Now swap LCB for Rangers and SSG for Green Berets.


Very normal
Portuguese FOE (funny called Rangers) are like Green Berets and SSG, they make special recon, LRRP, guerrilla warfare, etc
Portuguese Comandos are more like US Rangers and LCB, their missions are more direct action

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## DESERT FIGHTER

ghazi52 said:


>



Another repost... you are just late by a decade bruv, 2008 pic.

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## The Fist

.

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## Major Sam

The Fist said:


> .
> View attachment 391621


Which gun s this? is it with flir?


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## django

Major Sam said:


> Which gun s this? is it with flir?


M4

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## krash

Major Sam said:


> Which gun s this? is it with flir?


A flir is way too big to be mounted on a gun, Aircraft carry them. Did you mean a thermal imaging sight?


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## 544_delta

Zarvan said:


> Al Zarrar coz background is famous training centre of SAS???


recent pics? do we regularly train with SAS?


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## The Fist

.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

The Fist said:


> .
> View attachment 395277


Old pic of Nigerian SF training at Cherat..

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*And Old pics from training exs:

SSG
















Humvee captured from taliban;














SSW;







SSGN;























































*

*African SF cadets at SF School;











*

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## ghazi52

COAS visited SSG training area at Terbela to witness completion of eight weeks long Counter Terrorism Training of Nigerian Special Forces Battalion by Pak Army SSG team. The Nigerian contingent comprised of 440 trainees including 26 officers. COAS appreciated standard of training imparted and the results attained by the trainee contingent. COAS said that terrorism is a menace that requires a collective response. Pakistan Army has vast experience of CT operations as well as modern training facilities and we are happy to play a part in enabling CT response of multiple friendly countries. 
IGT&E Lt Gen Hidayat ur Rehman, Commander Rawalpindi Corps Lt Gen Nadeem Raza, GOC SSG and Acting Nigerian High Commissioner, Mr Salisu Murtala Isa were also present.





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## DESERT FIGHTER

ghazi52 said:


>



just half a decade late.. as always..

Seriously dont post.. if u have noting to post.

U have effectively ruined these threads.. n r the reason.. i posting!

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Nigerians SF undergoing course at SSG Eagles Nest*








*Light CDO Battalion - 2014:*











*SSG 2014 (training ex):*

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## Sage

Windjammer said:


> *1979: Pakistani Special Forces (SSG) cleared the Holy Kaaba of militants*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Grand Mosque Seizure on November 20, 1979, was an armed attack and takeover by armed Islamist dissidents of the Al-Masjid al-Haram in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, the holiest place in Islam. The insurgents declared that the Mahdi, or redeemer of Islam, had arrived in the form of one of the insurgents' leaders, Abdullah Hamid Mohammed Al-Qahtani and called on Muslims to obey him.The seizure shocked the Islamic world as hundreds of pilgrims present for the annual hajj were taken hostage, and hundreds of militants, security forces and hostages caught in crossfire were killed in the ensuing battles for control of the site. The siege ended two weeks after the takeover began with militants cleared from the mosque.[2] Following the attack, the Saudi state implemented stricter enforcement of Islamic code.[3]Confusion reigned at the field command, where several senior princes, the heads of the armed forces and military attachés from Pakistan gave advice. Pakistan Army infantry and armoured units deployed in Saudi Arabia were mobilized immediately. Pakistani SSG commandos were rushed to Mecca from Pakistan on Saudi Government's request.In the middle of the day, Saudi troops abseiled from helicopters directly into the courtyard in the center of the mosque. The soldiers were picked off by insurgents holding superior positions. At this point, King Khalid appointed Turki head of the operation.[16] The insurgents broadcast their demands from the mosque loudspeakers, calling for the cutoff of oil exports to the United States and expulsion of all foreign civilian and military experts from the Arabian peninsula.[17] On November 25, the Arab Socialist Action Party - Arabian Peninsula issued a statement from Beirut alleging to clarify the demands of the insurgents. The party, however, denied any involvement of its own in the seizure.[18]Pakistanis were the only forces besides Saudis– as non-Muslims cannot enter the city of Mecca. The Pakistanis asked for permission to end the siege by flooding the mosque and then dropping a high-voltage electric cable to electrocute all present. This suggestion was requested by the then Commandant of the Pakistan Special Services Group, Brigadier Tariq Mehmood[[1]]. This proposal was deemed unacceptable by Saudi authorities. They then used tanks to ram the doors of the mosque and Pakistani Commandos[[2]] then resorted to spraying the mosque with non-lethal gases in order to subdue the occupiers, and dropped grenades into the chambers through holes drilled in the mosque courtyard. The Pakistani commandos stormed the mosque, and used the least amount of force possible to avoid damage to the mosque. They killed most of the insurgents, and managed to force the surrender of the survivors.[19]The battle had lasted more than two weeks, and had officially left "255 pilgrims, troops and fanatics" killed "another 560 injured ... although diplomats suggested the toll was higher." Military casualties were 127 dead and 451 injured.[20]
> 
> The Grand Mosque Seizure on November 20, 1979, was an armed attack and takeover by armed Islamist dissidents of the Al-Masjid al-Haram in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, the holiest place in Islam. The insurgents declared that the Mahdi, or redeemer of Islam, had arrived in the form of one of the insurgents' leaders, Abdullah Hamid Mohammed Al-Qahtani and called on Muslims to obey him.The seizure shocked the Islamic world as hundreds of pilgrims present for the annual hajj were taken hostage, and hundreds of militants, security forces and hostages caught in crossfire were killed in the ensuing battles for control of the site. The siege ended two weeks after the takeover began with militants cleared from the mosque.[2] Following the attack, the Saudi state implemented stricter enforcement of Islamic code.[3]Confusion reigned at the field command, where several senior princes, the heads of the armed forces and military attachés from Pakistan gave advice. Pakistan Army infantry and armoured units deployed in Saudi Arabia were mobilized immediately. Pakistani SSG commandos were rushed to Mecca from Pakistan on Saudi Government's request.In the middle of the day, Saudi troops abseiled from helicopters directly into the courtyard in the center of the mosque. The soldiers were picked off by insurgents holding superior positions. At this point, King Khalid appointed Turki head of the operation.[16]he insurgents broadcast their demands from the mosque loudspeakers, calling for the cutoff of oil exports to the United States and expulsion of all foreign civilian and military experts from the Arabian peninsula.[17] On November 25, the Arab Socialist Action Party - Arabian Peninsula issued a statement from Beirut alleging to clarify the demands of the insurgents. The party, however, denied any involvement of its own in the seizure.[18]Pakistanis were the only forces besides Saudis– as non-Muslims cannot enter the city of Mecca. The Pakistanis asked for permission to end the siege by flooding the mosque and then dropping a high-voltage electric cable to electrocute all present. This suggestion was requested by the then Commandant of the Pakistan Special Services Group, Brigadier Tariq Mehmood[[1]]. This proposal was deemed unacceptable by Saudi authorities. They then used tanks to ram the doors of the mosque and Pakistani Commandos[[2]] then resorted to spraying the mosque with non-lethal gases in order to subdue the occupiers, and dropped grenades into the chambers through holes drilled in the mosque courtyard. The Pakistani commandos stormed the mosque, and used the least amount of force possible to avoid damage to the mosque. They killed most of the insurgents, and managed to force the surrender of the survivors.[19]The battle had lasted more than two weeks, and had officially left "255 pilgrims, troops and fanatics" killed "another 560 injured ... although diplomats suggested the toll was higher." Military casualties were 127 dead and 451 injured.[20]


Source for this please ?


----------



## gangsta_rap

Sage said:


> Source for this please ?


Its fake. Alot of Army Boot polishers like to point it around with false prid. In truth the French GIGN were called in to clear it.


----------



## Army research

GIANTsasquatch said:


> Its fake. Alot of Army Boot polishers like to point it around with false prid. In truth the French GIGN were called in to clear it.


If you carefully research and rationale think , foreign forces were present (gign) but their was disagreement on letting him in the haram. They had an advisory role while the foot soldiers were Pakistani men.

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## Sage

GIANTsasquatch said:


> Its fake. Alot of Army Boot polishers like to point it around with false prid. In truth the French GIGN were called in to clear it.


I tell them again and again but the senior researchers are living in some fantasies like Zaid Hamid ...SSG does not need to be attached with such lies ...they just don't need it.


----------



## Army research

Sage said:


> I tell them again and again but the senior researchers are living in some fantasies like Zaid Hamid ...SSG does not need to be attached with such lies ...they just don't need it.


least two other accounts,[35][page needed]including that of then GIGN commanding officer Christian Prouteau:[1] the three GIGN commandos trained and equipped the Saudi forces and devised their attack plan (which consisted of drilling holes in the floor of the Mosque and firing gas canisters wired with explosives through the perforations), but did not take part in the action and did not set foot in the Mosque. He claims that Pakistani SSG commandos carried out the operation instead.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*2013 Training EX:







*

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## krash

GIANTsasquatch said:


> Its fake. Alot of Army Boot polishers like to point it around with false prid. *In truth the French GIGN were called in to clear it.*



Must've been some guys. Only 6 of them clearing the whole of Kaba from dozens of miscreants.

Btw, no claims anywhere that GIGN cleared the Kaba.....except you.

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## Suff Shikan

krash said:


> Must've been some guys. Only 6 of them clearing the whole of Kaba from dozens of miscreants.
> 
> Btw, no claims anywhere that GIGN cleared the Kaba.....except you.



Only 3 GIGN for support , whereas 50 SSG Commandos of Pak

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## Sage

GIANTsasquatch said:


> If boot polishers would actually do some research that would be something wouldn't it?
> 
> Yaroslav Trofimov wrote a detailed book about what happened in 2008. His is in every sense an AUTHORITY on explaining the history behind the incident. From a Q&A done about his research, this is how he summarized the support given to the Saudis at the time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source: Author Q&A section of this link:
> http://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/b...-of-mecca-by-yaroslav-trofimov/9780307277732/
> 
> Absolutely no mention of Pakistani involvement during the event.
> 
> The only record of Pakistani involvement is in Musharraf's memoirs (which wikipedia references too). You won't find any mention of Pakistan in proper sources.
> 
> @Sage I hope this helps in your case too.


Thanks for sharing...I have read 'In the Line of Fire' word by word and could not find any claim of the involvement of SSG.

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## django

Army research said:


> If you carefully research and rationale think , foreign forces were present (gign) but their was disagreement on letting him in the haram. They had an advisory role while the foot soldiers were Pakistani men.


From what i have heard those French soldiers had to take the Shahadah.


----------



## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## DESERT FIGHTER

ghazi52 said:


>



2004


>


REPOST


>


REPOST


>



Shouldve checked previous page
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...ssg-ssgn-ssw-sow.113616/page-190#post-9651235



ghazi52 said:


>


*
2005-6
Only a decade late.. 

U make Pak troops look like as if we are still stuck in the 90s..*

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## ghazi52

Mukarar.......








Abbottabad. Captain Akash Rabbani's friends came to say Fatiha on his grave on his 3rd Martyrdom anniversary .

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## ghazi52



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Memorial for Fallen Brothers..






Powindas training with SAS ... behind is SAS's Kill House*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*2015 Zarb e Azb






*

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## ghazi52

Phase-1 Kyber 4 completed.After Brekh Top, valley being cleared.Every inch of Pakistan will be peaceful IA, no one can beat resilient Pakistan.

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## Reichsmarschall



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## Readerdefence

Narendra Trump said:


>


Hi I think green helmets are FC and the rest are either LCB or infantrymen 
Any info on that 
Thx

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## Reichsmarschall

Readerdefence said:


> Hi I think green helmets are FC and the rest are either LCB or infantrymen
> Any info on that
> Thx


LCB SSG joint operation

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## Pindi Boy

@DESERT FIGHTER do you have full photo of this get up?

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## Dr. Abdul Basit

ghazi52 said:


> Mukarar.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbottabad. Captain Akash Rabbani's friends came to say Fatiha on his grave on his 3rd Martyrdom anniversary .




That is my professor/teacher, Dr. Aftab Rabbani
Respect to whole of his family and Sp. respects and prayers for Akash Rabbani, Salute to you sir

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## django

Riz said:


> A rare picture of a successful surgical strike carried out by SSG team across LOC in early 90s. ilyas kashmiri with fellows
> Sorry for graphic content.. please delete if offended @waz


Ilyas Kashmiri was no member of the SSG, any attempts to attach this scumbag with SSG is strictly the work of those who are opponents of Pakistan armed forces, it is well known he was the one who assassinated Maj Gen Alvi former head of SSG.Kudos

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## pzfz

Narendra Trump said:


>


Good going to the guys. But here i will continue my whining about personal protection and the Pak army. Only one guy is wearing a modern plate carrier (the guy in the middle with the M4 with GL). The LCB guys are wearing US hand-me-down interceptor vests from the 1990s and the other SSG guys are sporting their usual heavy set-up of an old 1990s ballistic vest with a tactical vest over it.

On a side note, the Pak army camo is really blends in well with the rocks. Can't tell where the rock ends and where the operator's leg begins. Too bad with the mismatching and usually black vests they put on which presents a nice black target during the day to aim at.



Pakistan Zindabad said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER do you have full photo of this get up?



You'll find none. Turkish equipment on a Pak operator. Everything besides the actual guy and the woodland camo is Turkish.

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## Riz

django said:


> Ilyas Kashmiri was no member of the SSG, any attempts to attach this scumbag with SSG is strictly the work of those who are opponents of Pakistan armed forces, it is well known he was the one who assassinated Maj Gen Alvi former head of SSG.Kudos


Dude, woh fouji bhagora tha


----------



## django

Riz said:


> Dude, woh fouji bhagora tha


He was never ever in Pak military, RAW backed elements of the media (We all know who they are) may project this nonsense, but the truth is he had never served even in the regular army let alone the creme de la creme of Pak army, the SSG.Kudos Riz

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## Riz

sorry for my less knowledge


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## django

Riz said:


> sorry for my less knowledge


Bro here we are all learning each and every day.Kudos

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## Amaa'n

django said:


> Bro here we are all learning each and every day.Kudos


care to share the source of this information -----
I would like to Quote Saleem Shehzad here who in his book published the interview of Kashmiri himself -----so don't know whats the truth

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## django

balixd said:


> care to share the source of this information -----
> I would like to Quote Saleem Shehzad here who in his book published the interview of Kashmiri himself -----so don't know whats the truth


I remember reading an interview in asia times online, where Kashmiri stated he had never ever been a member of Pak military let alone SSG (interview conducted by the now deceased Shezad), I think it was Hamid Mir who started off the rumour of Kashmiri and the SSG.

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## Amaa'n

django said:


> I remember reading an interview in asia times online, where Kashmiri stated he had never ever been a member of Pak military let alone SSG (interview conducted by the now deceased Shezad), I think it was Hamid Mir who started off the rumour of Kashmiri and the SSG.


am i confusing Kashmiri with another Major ---of whom Saleem Shehzad wrote about 
Unfortunately I don't have the access to the book right now because am out of country and wont be back till mid of next month otherwise i would have confirmed it in minutes -----
I liked Saleem's book all lot, that is why many pages, line have been marked in that book

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## django

balixd said:


> am i confusing Kashmiri with another Major ---of whom Saleem Shehzad wrote about
> Unfortunately I don't have the access to the book right now because am out of country and wont be back till mid of next month otherwise i would have confirmed it in minutes -----
> I liked Saleem's book all lot, that is why many pages, line have been marked in that book


You are correct, Shezad did mention a Major from Kohat who had served in SSG Zarrar company, who spent time in Fort Bragg and who had decided to join the militants fighting in Afghanistan against US occupation forces, their was no mention of this Major going up against Pakistan army, I think he was strictly affiliated with Afghan Taliban.Kudos sir

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## ghazi52



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## DESERT FIGHTER

ghazi52 said:


>


Do you know these pics are from swat ops and the Gen in the pic had joe heej retired.

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## Soldier-X

Pakistan Zindabad said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER do you have full photo of this get up?

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## ghazi52



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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## ghazi52



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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*2013 training pics









*

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *2013 training pics
> 
> View attachment 416797
> 
> 
> View attachment 416798
> *






These are the BRAVEST & TOUGHEST men in the ENTIRE PLANET. They are the ONLY MEN IN THE WORLD who have to put their lives at risk each day defending our natuon against an enemy that is more than 7x bigger than us and has abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege. NO OTHER SOLDIERS on this planet have to fight these odds each day of their lives

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## krash

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 416748



Nearing retirement.

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## The Fist



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## ghazi52

SSG(N)

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## DESERT FIGHTER

ghazi52 said:


> SSG(N)


do u know how old thye last pics are?

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## Soldier-X



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## ghazi52



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## DESERT FIGHTER

credits : @Game.Invade

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*2014:





*

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

*
KALLAR KAHAR:* The Badge Award Ceremony of 4th Special Advanced Training Course of Uqaab Force was held at PAF Base Kallar Kahar . Air Marshal Asad Lodhi, Vice Chief of Air Staff, Pakistan Air Force was the chief guest at the occasion.

A total of 262 PAF personnel including 11 officers and 251 airmen successfully completed their rigorous training conducted by the Special Services Wing of Pakistan Air Force. The Chief Guest awarded badges and trophies to the successful personnel who underwent a strenuous and demanding course.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## Thorough Pro

Wrong glasses for the job



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> credits : @Game.Invade
> View attachment 419785

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## The Fist

Teaser of Movie _ SarBakaff _ based on Pakistan Navy SEAL Operations SSG N 
Watch full movie on 6 Sep Defence Day

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## ghazi52



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## DESERT FIGHTER

ghazi52 said:


>


babloo.. do u know how old this pic is?

Oe who is in that pic?
hint:


Its from mid/early 2000s... and man on left is a Martyr.

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## Soldier-X

The Fist said:


> Teaser of Movie _ SarBakaff _ based on Pakistan Navy SEAL Operations SSG N
> Watch full movie on 6 Sep Defence Day


This looks owesome. Finally some nice media work on our special forces
Here is full screen HD version




__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## django

Soldier-X said:


> This looks owesome. Finally some nice media work on our special forces
> Here is full screen HD version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


@Zibago @The Sandman @Hell hound @Dawood Ibrahim @Moonlight @Signalian 
Cannot wait for this to be released.

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## The Sandman

django said:


> @Zibago @The Sandman @Hell hound @Dawood Ibrahim @Moonlight @Signalian
> Cannot wait for this to be released.


Looks like a Hollywood standard movie tbh

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## django

The Sandman said:


> Looks like a Hollywood standard movie tbh


These guys look like seal team 6 minus the M4s.Kudos bro

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## DESERT FIGHTER

django said:


> These guys look like seal team 6 minus the M4s.Kudos bro


ironically Sig,M4 ARs are their stamdard rifles... never seem em use AKs.. except for training purposes..

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## django

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> ironically Sig,M4 ARs are their stamdard rifles... never seem em use AKs.. except for training purposes..


I was referring to the trailer, and indeed you are correct M4 seems to be standard weapon, in regards to Sig variants, I was not aware of their use by Pak spec ops.Kudos

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## DESERT FIGHTER

django said:


> I was referring to the trailer, and indeed you are correct M4 seems to be standard weapon, in regards to Sig variants, I was not aware of their use by Pak spec ops.Kudos

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## The Sandman

ghazi52 said:


>


Never knew our forces used SAR-21 that's actually my fav gun in Battlefield games.


----------



## django

The Sandman said:


> Never knew our forces used SAR-21 that's actually my fav gun in Battlefield games.


Bro those guys are using Steyr Aug, a weapon we have had for decades.

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## The Sandman

django said:


> Bro those guys are using Steyr Aug, a weapon we have had for decades.


oh ok ok but they both looks similar so confused it btw Battlefield have this gun too but i hate it way too slow and a lot of recoil  but it's a game don't know how it handles in real life.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Here in Malir Garrison, units are rollin and polishing their AKs,AZs, Types,APCs and SPGs etc for 6 th sep parade..lol

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR. Poor indian troll talkin shyt on indian forums about SSG..

Come here and let us rip u a new arsehole.. arsehole.

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## django

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Soldier-X

SSGN.......Youtube link [HD]

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR. Poor indian troll talkin shyt on indian forums about SSG..
> 
> Come here and let us rip u a new arsehole.. arsehole.


They banned me also on their forum. I was quite busy exposing them which led to my ban

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> They banned me also on their forum. I was quite busy exposing them which led to my ban


Bunch of low life human shyt stains/ degenerates.

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## ghazi52



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## Soldier-X

SSGN song on defence day

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*2015*


----------



## Reichsmarschall

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR. Poor indian troll talkin shyt on indian forums about SSG..
> 
> Come here and let us rip u a new arsehole.. arsehole.


they banned me within first 30 mins of sign up BTW give me link to that thread i'll try to make new account



Soldier-X said:


>


this should be standard kit for all Spec Ops

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## Sine Nomine

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Bunch of low life human shyt stains/ degenerates.


Don't worry there delusion as nation would help us.

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## Areesh

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Don't worry there delusion as nation would help us.



And give them more so called BAT ops.

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## DESERT FIGHTER




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## Zarvan




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## DESERT FIGHTER

*2015





*

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## Sine Nomine

Areesh said:


> And give them more so called BAT ops.


They are most funniest guys,6 out of 10 gutter dewelling Gangadeshis are Expert in Balochistan and Afghanistan Affairs.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Awesome SSGN Video





*

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## Amaa'n

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Awesome SSGN Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


repost bro, posted on last page ---


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

balixd said:


> repost bro, posted on last page ---


Click the video first bro.. aint repost bro...


----------



## Amaa'n

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Click the video first bro.. aint repost bro...


yar, it is posted, just music is different ----

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## Soldier-X



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## Zarvan



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


>


police commando.


----------



## Soldier-X



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## Soldier-X



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## Soldier-X



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## SSG commandos



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## blain2

Why is this video posted on all the threads?


----------



## Sameer25

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Awesome SSGN Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


whats the rifle/smg at 2:11. It looks like it has a 5.56 m4 magazine but it looks like a smg


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Sameer25 said:


> whats the rifle/smg at 2:11. It looks like it has a 5.56 m4 magazine but it looks like a smg


Sig PDW.


----------



## Sameer25

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sig PDW.


Did u mean the SIG MPX? and r u sure. The Magazine Is a STANAG 5.56 Mag which is not a MPX caliber. looks to mean like a super shortened M4


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Sameer25 said:


> Did u mean the SIG MPX? and r u sure. The Magazine Is a STANAG 5.56 Mag which is not a MPX caliber. looks to mean like a super shortened M4


SIG 516 PDW.

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## blain2

There is too much focus on shiny kit, weapons and military equipment nowadays on this forum and elsewhere. Intangibles are used for comparisons leaving aside so many more specific things that matter. I think the media in general is guilty of that and then people who participate in forums such as this fall prey to the same. The real measure is the calibre of the training and the mettle of the men who go through it. No war has been won because one side fielded SIG516s and the other had old AK47s.

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## Mrc

blain2 said:


> There is too much focus on shiny kit, weapons and military equipment nowadays on this forum and elsewhere. Intangibles are used for comparisons leaving aside so many more specific things that matter. I think the media in general is guilty of that and then people who participate in forums such as this fall prey to the same. The real measure is the calibre of the training and the mettle of the men who go through it. No war has been won because one side fielded SIG516s and the other had old AK47s.




prime example of poorly trained army is Iraqi army when attacked in mosul by ISIS riding pickup trucks, 20 000 of them abandoned hundreds of Humvees and M1 Abrahams tanks and got slaughtered trying to flee....

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## Ahmet Pasha



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## Slides

blain2 said:


> There is too much focus on shiny kit, weapons and military equipment nowadays on this forum and elsewhere. Intangibles are used for comparisons leaving aside so many more specific things that matter. I think the media in general is guilty of that and then people who participate in forums such as this fall prey to the same. The real measure is the calibre of the training and the mettle of the men who go through it. No war has been won because one side fielded SIG516s and the other had old AK47s.



Not to mention force multipliers like ISR assets, both air and land. That is what gives Western spec ops their edge. Their slightly better guns or gear is not what's their main advantage. Plus ability to spend more money on better training of course. Focus should be on force multipliers and training. Gear shouldn't be 90% of the conversation.

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## blain2

Ahmet Pasha said:


> View attachment 432596


One very common mistake that Pakistanis make quite often (including members of the Services as well) is the use of the term "Services" when talking about the SSG. The actual acronym stands for Special "Service" Group. That was the name designated for 19 Baloch upon the establishment of the SSG and the raising of its initial battalion by the Army. The idea is that it is a special force similar to Special Air "Service". There is no plural as in "Services".

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## Ahmet Pasha

Thanks for the insight 


blain2 said:


> One very common mistake that Pakistanis make quite often (including members of the Services as well) is the use of the term "Services" when talking about the SSG. The actual acronym stands for Special "Service" Group. That was the name designated for 19 Baloch upon the establishment of the SSG and the raising of its initial battalion by the Army. The idea is that it is a special force similar to Special Air "Service". There is no plural as in "Services".

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## F-7



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## Ahmet Pasha

Damn SSG looking good in russian kit.


F-7 said:


>

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## django

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Damn SSG looking good in russian kit.


@Path-Finder Hazrat @Zarvan The SSG operator seemed to appreciate the AK-103

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## Path-Finder

django said:


> @Path-Finder Hazrat @Zarvan The SSG operator seemed to appreciate the AK-103


But AK 103 is already in service with SSG

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## Zarvan

Path-Finder said:


> But AK 103 is already in service with SSG


No it's not

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## Path-Finder

Zarvan said:


> No it's not


hmm @DESERT FIGHTER


----------



## django

Path-Finder said:


> But AK 103 is already in service with SSG


I have heard this over the years but it turned out to be a Bulgarian AK variant, on this one the good Hazrat @Zarvan was correct it seems.Kudos bhai

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## Zarvan

Path-Finder said:


> hmm @DESERT FIGHTER


Special Forces are trained to use many weapons but SSG right now hardly or even when Type 56 was being used by SSG they were hardly seen with AK-103


----------



## Abu Zarrar

django said:


> @Path-Finder Hazrat @Zarvan The SSG operator seemed to appreciate the AK-103


Sir why you guys call him hazrat?Is it cuz of his rank?

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## Army research

Turgut Reis said:


> Sir why you guys call him hazrat?Is it cuz of his rank?


Because he has prophesied the arrival of the SCAR

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## Maarkhoor

Army research said:


> Because he has prophesied the arrival of the SCAR


But proved Nostradamus 
SCAR is very expensive short shelf life weapon and went cranky after 2000 rounds of rapid fire.

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## django

Turgut Reis said:


> Sir why you guys call him hazrat?Is it cuz of his rank?


Because he is a good God fearing man with immense knowledge of "Islamic fiqh".Kudos Sir

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## PDF

Turgut Reis said:


> Sir why you guys call him hazrat?Is it cuz of his rank?


The term is used to address someone respectable/to show respect.

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Soldier-X



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## Maarkhoor

Soldier-X said:


> View attachment 435837


Where is bullet proof vest? 
I saw many special forces persons without bullet proof vest which is standard in many forces.

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## Soldier-X

Maarkhoor said:


> Where is bullet proof vest?
> I saw many special forces persons without bullet proof vest which is standard in many forces.


Thats becuase he is not in some operational area..ofcourse they wear bulletproof vest


----------



## Maarkhoor

Soldier-X said:


> Thats becuase he is not in some operational area..ofcourse they wear bulletproof vest


I saw videos and pictures they are doing operations in hot areas even special forces without bullet proof vests (they are wearing some sort of jackets for carrying ammo which often mistaken as B.P vests).


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## Abu Zarrar



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## django

Maarkhoor said:


> Where is bullet proof vest?
> I saw many special forces persons without bullet proof vest which is standard in many forces.


Sometimes soldiers want to be quick and agile especially when they are operating in coarse mountainous terrain, they may not wish to use these rather heavy vests.Kudos

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## blain2

Maarkhoor said:


> I saw videos and pictures they are doing operations in hot areas even special forces without bullet proof vests (they are wearing some sort of jackets for carrying ammo which often mistaken as B.P vests).


Keep in mind that many of these photos circulating on the internet are personal photos of officers and men. Some are on duty, others simply posing for personal photos. People lift those and share them across. Who knows what the chap was up to at the time the photo was taken.

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## Abu Zarrar



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## Abu Zarrar



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## Mrc

Turgut Reis said:


> View attachment 436647




Which one is special forces??


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## Abu Zarrar

Mrc said:


> Which one is special forces??


The guy in the middle


----------



## Path-Finder

Mrc said:


> Which one is special forces??



you didn't think it was noora was it?

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## Abu Zarrar

Path-Finder said:


> you didn't think it was noora was it?

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## Mrc

Turgut Reis said:


> The guy in the middle




He is carrying zia's clubs


----------



## Abu Zarrar

Peek freans lemon [emoji48]

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## ghazi52

Pak-Saudia Special Forces joint counter terrorism exercise ‘Al-Shehab-2’ is under way at Prince Naif Security City, Riadh. 
The two weeks long exercise started on 25 November and will continue till 10 December. “ Al-Shehab 1” was held last year in Pakistan. Pakistani contingent comprising of 68 officers and soldiers of special services group (SSG) is participating in this exercise. 
The Pak-Saudia joint exercise will help participating troops from both sides to learn from each other’s experiences in the counter terrorism field and strengthen bilateral cooperation between the two forces and the countries.

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

* "Brigadier Dogar" enjoying Qehwa (کہوہ) while soviet forces get roasted in background.





*

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## ghazi52



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## Irfan Baloch

best picture ever. Saudi looks sleek and the Pakistani stands equal to him

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*High Altitude Warfare School :*
























Courtesy : @Game.Invade

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## Soldier-X



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## Neptune

Hello.

Can you identify the unit of the Pakistani service member in the picture if possible? He’s the guy with a red beret. Photo is taken at 1990s at Turkish Naval Forces SAT headquarters in the outskirts of Istanbul.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Special Service Group Navy most likely.


Neptune said:


> Hello.
> 
> Can you identify the unit of the Pakistani service member in the picture if possible? He’s the guy with a red beret. Photo is taken at 1990s at Turkish Naval Forces SAT headquarters in the outskirts of Istanbul.
> 
> View attachment 442497


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Neptune said:


> Hello.
> 
> Can you identify the unit of the Pakistani service member in the picture if possible? He’s the guy with a red beret. Photo is taken at 1990s at Turkish Naval Forces SAT headquarters in the outskirts of Istanbul.
> 
> View attachment 442497


Red or shades of it are only worn by military police or medical corps.

The MP only recruits officers and troops over 5"10.

So is most likely that he's medical corps..

Not sure... About that camo though..


Woodland is only worn by special service group... Of all services (SSG, SSGN SSW).

However pal regulars have used the same camo in Bosnia,UN missions and perhaps LOC. 
However old British styled camos were in service with several units.. Specifically muhajid battalions aka our reserve troops.



Neptune said:


> Hello.
> 
> Can you identify the unit of the Pakistani service member in the picture if possible? He’s the guy with a red beret. Photo is taken at 1990s at Turkish Naval Forces SAT headquarters in the outskirts of Istanbul.
> 
> View attachment 442497





Neptune said:


> Hello.
> 
> Can you identify the unit of the Pakistani service member in the picture if possible? He’s the guy with a red beret. Photo is taken at 1990s at Turkish Naval Forces SAT headquarters in the outskirts of Istanbul.
> 
> View attachment 442497


He could be SSG ... If it's a maroon beret... And the pic is enhanced or edited..


Recognising the man in question is difficult unless someone personally knows him.

Alot of SSG officers later join their parent units... After a minimum of 3 or so years...


Rest remain in SF... till they retire... And since it's a dog eat dog kinda corps.. Meaning very very few actually make it to get officers ranks... Accept that one lucky man who becomes their comdt.

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## Neptune

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Red or shades of it are only worn by military police or medical corps.
> 
> The MP only recruits officers and troops over 5"10.
> 
> So is most likely that he's medical corps..
> 
> Not sure... About that camo though..
> 
> 
> Woodland is only worn by special service group... Of all services (SSG, SSGN SSW).
> 
> However pal regulars have used the same camo in Bosnia,UN missions and perhaps LOC.
> However old British styled camos were in service with several units.. Specifically muhajid battalions aka our reserve troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He could be SSG ... If it's a maroon beret... And the pic is enhanced or edited..
> 
> 
> Recognising the man in question is difficult unless someone personally knows him.
> 
> Alot of SSG officers later join their parent units... After a minimum of 3 or so years...
> 
> 
> Rest remain in SF... till they retire... And since it's a dog eat dog kinda corps.. Meaning very very few actually make it to get officers ranks... Accept that one lucky man who becomes their comdt.



I see it bro. Rest assured, the image is enhanced only for quality improvement purposes. The pic above is at least 20 or so years old. Also it is taken at SAT Headquarters. From left to right are:
Tunca Örses, a prominent civilian military historian; Ret. Staff Captain Ali Türkşen who is famous for his role during the Imia/Kardak Crisis at the Aegean Sea, He is now a famous public figure and a politician; the Pakistani officer; and lastly at tight, the second SAT operator of the picture.






Ali Türkşen, just to show how old the pic is :





But the publisher of the photo said that he's a Pakistani officer for sure. I asked this because, I suspect that Turkish-Pakistani SOF/SF relationship in regards to SAT, might have started with SSG instead of its likely counterpart, SSGN.

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## Ahmet Pasha

If they dont progress through ranks do they atleast get pay raises?? Or else how do they make ends meet???


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Red or shades of it are only worn by military police or medical corps.
> 
> The MP only recruits officers and troops over 5"10.
> 
> So is most likely that he's medical corps..
> 
> Not sure... About that camo though..
> 
> 
> Woodland is only worn by special service group... Of all services (SSG, SSGN SSW).
> 
> However pal regulars have used the same camo in Bosnia,UN missions and perhaps LOC.
> However old British styled camos were in service with several units.. Specifically muhajid battalions aka our reserve troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He could be SSG ... If it's a maroon beret... And the pic is enhanced or edited..
> 
> 
> Recognising the man in question is difficult unless someone personally knows him.
> 
> Alot of SSG officers later join their parent units... After a minimum of 3 or so years...
> 
> 
> Rest remain in SF... till they retire... And since it's a dog eat dog kinda corps.. Meaning very very few actually make it to get officers ranks... Accept that one lucky man who becomes their comdt.



Yeah thats possible too cuz SSG itself also does naval ops like frogman etc etc


Neptune said:


> I see it bro. Rest assured, the image is enhanced only for quality improvement purposes. The pic above is at least 20 or so years old. Also it is taken at SAT Headquarters. From left to right are:
> Tunca Örses, a prominent civilian military historian; Ret. Staff Captain Ali Türkşen who is famous for his role during the Imia/Kardak Crisis at the Aegean Sea, He is now a famous public figure and a politician; the Pakistani officer; and lastly at tight, the second SAT operator of the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ali Türkşen, just to show how old the pic is :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the publisher of the photo said that he's a Pakistani officer for sure. I asked this because, I suspect that Turkish-Pakistani SOF/SF relationship in regards to SAT, might have started with SSG instead of its likely counterpart, SSGN.

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## Path-Finder

I forgot I had these it's from a French Magazine Raids @Vergennes any translation?

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## Ahmet Pasha

Its talking about where SSG is based, their equipment, importance of mountain warfare, how they operate etc etc.


Path-Finder said:


> View attachment 442544
> 
> 
> View attachment 442544
> View attachment 442545
> View attachment 442546
> View attachment 442547
> View attachment 442548
> View attachment 442549
> View attachment 442550
> View attachment 442551
> 
> 
> I forgot I had these it's from a French Magazine Raids @Vergennes any translation?


----------



## Path-Finder

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Its talking about where SSG is based, their equipment, importance of mountain warfare, how they operate etc etc.



its now outdated by over 20 years, but still.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Yeah they have evolved quite a bit.
It was a brigade sized force back then
It is a division now


Path-Finder said:


> its now outdated by over 20 years, but still.


----------



## ghazi52




----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

ghazi52 said:


>


Do You know how old this pic is and how many times it has been posted bro. 

This mid is from mid 2000s... Today is 2018

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## ghazi52

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Do You know how old this pic is and how many times it has been posted bro.
> 
> This mid is from mid 2000s... Today is 2018


Thanks. Will care.

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## django

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The MP only recruits officers and troops over 5"10.


Some of them are like giants, feel like a midget every time I come across them.



Path-Finder said:


> View attachment 442544
> 
> 
> View attachment 442544
> View attachment 442545
> View attachment 442546
> View attachment 442547
> View attachment 442548
> View attachment 442549
> View attachment 442550
> View attachment 442551
> 
> 
> I forgot I had these it's from a French Magazine Raids @Vergennes any translation?


Old is Gold.Kudos and good share

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## DESERT FIGHTER

django said:


> Some of them are like giants, feel like a midget every time I come across them.
> 
> 
> Old is Gold.Kudos and good share


Yeah in practice most are above 6... And proper assholz.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Does MP have same juristiction as in US military. EX enforcing curfew times and rules etc etc even on JCOs and officers???


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yeah in practice most are above 6... And proper assholz.


----------



## django

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yeah in practice most are above 6... *And proper assholz.*


They can be a bit grumpy indeed.Kudos


----------



## blain2

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Does MP have same juristiction as in US military. EX enforcing curfew times and rules etc etc even on JCOs and officers???


Yes they do.

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## Reichsmarschall

SSG zarrar Coy

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## PWFI

Path-Finder said:


> View attachment 442544
> 
> 
> View attachment 442544
> View attachment 442545
> View attachment 442546
> View attachment 442547
> View attachment 442548
> View attachment 442549
> View attachment 442550
> View attachment 442551
> 
> 
> I forgot I had these it's from a French Magazine Raids @Vergennes any translation?


Sir, could you send me these files by e-mail if you don't mind?

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## Path-Finder

PWFI said:


> Sir, could you send me these files by e-mail if you don't mind?


Just download them here I no longer have them on my computer.

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## PWFI

Path-Finder said:


> Just download them here I no longer have them on my computer.


It's really difficult to read, thanks anyway

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## ghazi52



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## Soldier-X



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## django

ghazi52 said:


>


Brothers in arms. Nice share bro.Kudos

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## Soldier-X

ghazi52 said:


>


Shouldn't they all use diffrent camo?this woodland one is good for SSGN..
but SSG or atleast SSW should change it

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

Prime Minister Shahid Khaqan Abbasi and Army Chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa visited the Special Service Group (SSG) headquarters in Cherat .

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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Abu Zarrar

@Path-Finder is the guy with beard a foreigner??

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## Ahmet Pasha

Could be Turkish or Scandinavian. His G3 is pappu. We should have more such G3s kitted out like this.


Abu Zarrar said:


> View attachment 447737
> 
> 
> @Path-Finder is the guy with beard a foreigner??

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## Abu Zarrar

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Could be Turkish or Scandinavian. His G3 is pappu. We should have more such G3s kitted out like this.


Agree


----------



## Path-Finder

Abu Zarrar said:


> View attachment 447737
> 
> 
> @Path-Finder is the guy with beard a foreigner??



I think he is a foreigner.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Could be Turkish or Scandinavian. His G3 is pappu. We should have more such G3s kitted out like this.


We do have “kitted out” G3Ms.


Abu Zarrar said:


> View attachment 447737
> 
> 
> @Path-Finder is the guy with beard a foreigner??




This is a very old pic.. most likely from the 90s.

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## django

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/951740662613004288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/951557862022578176

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*2016 pics;


SSG;

















Light Commando Bat;




*

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## Ahmet Pasha

About 1st SSG pic what is a suit case doing on battlefield?? And what rifle is the 2nd dude from left carrying, looks like FN2000??

In LCB pic
The rifle showing slightly Bulgarian styling?


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *2016 pics;
> 
> 
> SSG;
> 
> View attachment 448692
> 
> 
> View attachment 448693
> 
> 
> View attachment 448694
> 
> 
> 
> Light Commando Bat;
> 
> View attachment 448695
> *


----------



## blain2

I am not sure if it is a suitcase. There are cases in use for optics that are carried by the teams. In normal operations, they would do away with the case, but in the situation of training ex., they may carry the optics in case. The rifle looks to be Colt M-4 with a grenade launcher attached.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Suitcase could be for long range sniper rifles.


blain2 said:


> I am not sure if it is a suitcase. There are cases in use for optics that are carried by the teams. In normal operations, they would do away with the case, but in the situation of training ex., they may carry the optics in case. The rifle looks to be Colt M-4 with a grenade launcher attached.


----------



## blain2

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Suitcase could be for long range sniper rifles.


Possible but given the length of the barrel, the cases for rifles like the AI ones or the others in use are longer. When I mentioned optics, I have also seen cases being used to carry hand held target designators.


----------



## AMG_12

Azb DMR in service with SSG

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## Abu Zarrar

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/954388261052518400

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## Human One

The team from the Pakistani air force makes their way to the first sector of the security forces combat arms event course during Air Mobility Command's Rodeo 2007 at Fort Lewis, Wash., July 23, 2007. The course tested competitors on their small arms firing, low crawling and running with more than 50 pounds of combat gear. Rodeo 2007 is a readiness competition of U.S. and international mobility air forces and focuses on improving warfighting capabilities.

*Date* 23 July 2008

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pakistani_F2000.JPEG

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## ghazi52



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## SSGcommandoPAK

Australians reacting to SSG Commandos .

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## ghazi52



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## Kompromat

Abu Zarrar said:


> Boys
> View attachment 450623



Not ours

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## Abu Zarrar

Horus said:


> Not ours


My bad


----------



## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

ہاتھوں میں ہتھیار



❤
ہونٹوں پر مسکراہٹ



❤
آنکھوں میں چمک



❤
کوئ تم سے پوچھے وطن کے رکھوالے کیسے ہوتے ہیں



❤
کہنا میری پاک فوج ايس ايس جى کے جوانوں
جیسے

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## ghazi52



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## django

ghazi52 said:


>


FAITH, UNITY AND DISCIPLINE.

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## Thorough Pro

No! look closely



Mrc said:


> He is carrying zia's clubs






Path-Finder said:


> you didn't think it was noora was it?


----------



## ghazi52



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## Reichsmarschall

Bratva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/636990886467862528


why is red dot not in the centre of the glass?


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Camera angle.
And not red dot.
Holographic.


Jon-Snow said:


> why is red dot not in the centre of the glass?

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## AMG_12

ghazi52 said:


>


Please don't repost, it's a request. Some of these have been posted multiple times.

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## ghazi52

Game.Invade said:


> Please don't repost, it's a request. Some of these have been posted multiple times.


My bad. Noted.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*SSGN Training pics from 2015;


















*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*2015 SSW;




*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Credit @Jon-Snow

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## Ahmet Pasha

Man SSG made Capt. Abid a poster child.


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 452975
> 
> 
> Credit @Jon-Snow


----------



## Reichsmarschall

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Man SSG made Capt. Abid a poster child.


he is Company commander Zarrar Coy

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Man SSG made Capt. Abid a poster child.


No, Wajahat S Khans program did..


@Jon-Snow where did you get the pic from bro?

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## Reichsmarschall

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @Jon-Snow where did you get the pic from bro?


from friend he knows some people in Zarrar Coy

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Ahmet Pasha

That rifle is very well camouflaged 


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 452982
> View attachment 452983
> View attachment 452984
> View attachment 452985

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Uqaab Force pic from 2015 (establised 2015 too);
















*

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## Ahmet Pasha

Awesome.
AF, FC KP, ASF have the best looking camos in Pak Armed Forces.


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Uqaab Force pic from 2015 (establised 2015 too);
> 
> View attachment 453084
> View attachment 453085
> View attachment 453086
> View attachment 453087
> View attachment 453088
> *


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

*LCB & Infantry Miranshah Operation 2014-15;




*

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## Ahmet Pasha

Equipment looks even more mean when it gathers some grit and dust in combat. Like that tank.


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *LCB & Infantry Miranshah Operation 2014-15;
> 
> View attachment 453461
> *

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## Soldier-X

Saudi-Pak joint naval SF excercise in karachi

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Pak-KSA joint naval ex;
*

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## Soldier-X



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Random *

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## Reichsmarschall

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *LCB & Infantry Miranshah Operation 2014-15;
> 
> View attachment 453461
> *


is that Al khalid?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Jon-Snow said:


> is that Al khalid?


Nope, Type series.. 59/62.

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## Reichsmarschall

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nope, Type series.. 59/62.


wow Never knew we were using them against Tallies any idea from which corp they are?


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Bro Type 59s/AlZarrars were always being used on Western front against tallies and on border.


Jon-Snow said:


> wow Never knew we were using them against Tallies any idea from which corp they are?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Jon-Snow said:


> wow Never knew we were using them against Tallies any idea from which corp they are?


Both army n FC are using them in WOT.

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Soldier-X



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## only information

Soldier-X said:


> View attachment 459435
> View attachment 459436
> View attachment 459437


 what is this thing on his arm in third pic


----------



## ghazi52

*Travels with chai*

*



*

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## ghazi52



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## Abu Zarrar

Major General Tahir Masood Bhutta

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

Wonderful picture.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## Readerdefence

ghazi52 said:


>


Hi is the guard room in the first picture is bulletproof ?& kind of airtight air conditioning system 
Any info please 
Thank you


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Readerdefence said:


> Hi is the guard room in the first picture is bulletproof ?& kind of airtight air conditioning system
> Any info please
> Thank you


Yes it’s an armoured bunker... comes with an AC.

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## muhammadali233

ghazi52 said:


>


Which heli is in the background isn't z-9 cause their is skids instead of landing gear


----------



## ghazi52



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## Pak_Track

ghazi52 said:


>


No rear sights?


----------



## django



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## Talon

muhammadali233 said:


> Which heli is in the background isn't z-9 cause their is skids instead of landing gear


looks like a model of a heli..

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## django



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## ghazi52

Nice picture.

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## Amaa'n

Pak_Track said:


> No rear sights?


folding type sights to be used with RDS.....


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

*2015-16;





*

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## Inception-06

ghazi52 said:


> Nice picture.




you can hang that over your bed !

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## pzfz

ghazi52 said:


> Nice picture.



Also useless.


----------



## Soldier-X



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## ghazi52




----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## AMG_12

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 470842


WOAH!

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## Pak_Track

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 470842


Let's hope this isn't some joint training exercise.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Pak_Track said:


> Let's hope this isn't some joint training exercise.


It isn’t ..

@Game.Invade you remember the other pic right bro.

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## AMG_12

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It isn’t ..
> 
> @Game.Invade you remember the other pic right bro.


I don't exactly remember


----------



## Reichsmarschall



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## DESERT FIGHTER

The Old pics;

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Nilgiri

Great pics guys!

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## pzfz

pretty sure that's a WOLF!


----------



## Army research

pzfz said:


> pretty sure that's a WOLF!


I've forgot the exact name but it's a hybrid species of I can't properly remember maybe Siberian wolf and german shepherd


----------



## Readerdefence

An Arctic wolf/Alaskan malamute hybrid from Lobo Park, Antequera.


----------



## Reichsmarschall

i know its old

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## muhammadali233

Army research said:


> I've forgot the exact name but it's a hybrid species of I can't properly remember maybe Siberian wolf and german shepherd





Readerdefence said:


> An Arctic wolf/Alaskan malamute hybrid from Lobo Park, Antequera.





DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 482330


Czechoslovakian vlcak

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*old pics 2015-16







*

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## Ahmet Pasha

Is army experimenting with new camo in 2nd picture??


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The Old pics;
> 
> View attachment 479326
> View attachment 479327
> View attachment 479328
> View attachment 479329
> View attachment 479330
> View attachment 479331
> 
> View attachment 479332


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Is army experimenting with new camo in 2nd picture??


Allegedly the new camo for LCB.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

It looks similar to Turk Kara Kauvvetleri camo. US army also uses similar camo patterns depending on environments.

But no one can beat Afghan ANA when it comes to camo selection LMAO


----------



## pzfz

Ahmet Pasha said:


> It looks similar to Turk Kara Kauvvetleri camo. US army also uses similar camo patterns depending on environments.
> 
> But no one can beat Afghan ANA when it comes to camo selection LMAO



It's a copy of the brit/anzac multicam, also used by gcc countries, itself a variation of the new standard us army multicam.


----------



## kartal1

Ahmet Pasha said:


> It looks similar to Turk Kara Kauvvetleri camo. US army also uses similar camo patterns depending on environments.
> 
> But no one can beat Afghan ANA when it comes to camo selection LMAO


Brother at the moment Turk Kara Kuvvetleri/Turkish Land Forces uses this pattern.









And those are the Army SF- Special Forces Command/Ozel Kuvvetler Komutanligi

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## Ahmet Pasha

Yup my bad. Turk uniforms don't have shades of blue except for maybe the navy.


kartal1 said:


> Brother at the moment Turk Kara Kuvvetleri/Turkish Land Forces uses this pattern.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And those are the Army SF- Special Forces Command/Ozel Kuvvetler Komutanligi

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## Human One

kartal1 said:


>



What are they holding in the last photo?


----------



## Nilgiri

Human One said:


> What are they holding in the last photo?

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## ghazi52

*AhmAd IbrAhim*‏ @AhmAdTipu7
SSG boys in fresh mood. In back ground we can see Army Boys and Marine Boys.....





3:16 AM - 4 Aug 2018

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## ghazi52

Pakistan Army Spec Ops SSG during International Airborne contest 2018 in China.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## Ahmet Pasha

What country is that??


ghazi52 said:


>


----------



## Kompromat

Kopasus is from Indonesia.



Ahmet Pasha said:


> What country is that??

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## django



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## Fieldmarshal

django said:


>


Buck up Kayani!

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## Human One

Thanks for the video.


----------



## django



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## django

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji oun.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1035510416238161921

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## ghazi52

Why Royal....

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## Army research

ghazi52 said:


> Why Royal....


It's just a stupid fanboy Facebook page

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## HRK

ghazi52 said:


> Why Royal....


PAF in its earlier days was called Royal Pakistan Air force


> It denied the then* Royal Pakistan Air Force (RPAF)* even the officially agreed small portions of weapons, equipment and aircraft allocated by departing British as its legitimate share. Much of what was eventually received from India was inoperable.
> PAF OFFICIAL WEBSITE

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## Ahmet Pasha

Those indian in the back look like pusies.


ghazi52 said:


> Why Royal....

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## django

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1035773097989812225

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## Abu Zarrar



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## Abu Zarrar



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## ghazi52

Attock Fort , SSG

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## Fieldmarshal

Home of 6 commando btn


----------



## django

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1045031353069318144

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## Kompromat

Im starting to hate the gear issued to SSG.

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## Bossman

Horus said:


> Im starting to hate the gear issued to SSG.



Your problem and nobody cares. They are not on a fashion parade.


----------



## django

Horus said:


> Im starting to hate the gear issued to SSG.


It certainly is adequate if not state of the art.Kudos Sir

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## Kompromat

Bossman said:


> Your problem and nobody cares. They are not on a fashion parade.



Take it easy firehose.



django said:


> It certainly is adequate if not state of the art.Kudos Sir



These men deserve the cutting edge technology to do their job, not even state of the art. Equipment is not just for optics, they offer solid tactical advantages and protection.

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## Amaa'n

Horus said:


> Take it easy firehose.
> 
> 
> 
> These men deserve the cutting edge technology to do their job, not even state of the art. Equipment is not just for optics, they offer solid tactical advantages and protection.


gear issued to them is very basic if you compare it to what other Spec Ops use across the world.....but they still get the job done, Kudos to these folks

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## Abu Zarrar

balixd said:


> gear issued to them is very basic if you compare it to what other Spec Ops use across the world.....but they still get the job done, Kudos to these folks


Sir how well equipped is our spec ops medic team?

@Horus


----------



## Amaa'n

Abu Zarrar said:


> Sir how well equipped is our spec ops medic team?
> 
> @Horus


if you are expecting them to carry an AED then you are wrong man  .....they just have the basic first aid kit , pressure bandages , tourniquets , pain killer .....thats all

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## Bossman

Horus said:


> Take it easy firehose.
> 
> 
> 
> These men deserve the cutting edge technology to do their job, not even state of the art. Equipment is not just for optics, they offer solid tactical advantages and protection.



State of the art doesn’t get you anywhere. The Americans lost to skinny small soldiers wearing pajamas and sandals made of old tires in Vietnam. History is being repeated in Afghanistan.Saudi and UAE forces with state of the art equipment are loosing to houthis in Yemen. General Mitha the father of Pakistan special forces once said “ be proud of your poverty” Think about what he meant. Read history rather than playing video games or watching Hollywood movies. You will learn something rather than making outburst like emotional teenage girls talking about fashion.

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## Kompromat

Bossman said:


> State of the art doesn’t get you anywhere. The Americans lost to skinny small soldiers wearing pajamas and sandals made of old tires in Vietnam. History is being repeated in Afghanistan.Saudi and UAE forces with state of the art equipment are loosing to houthis in Yemen. General Mitha the father of Pakistan special forces once said “ be proud of your poverty” Think about what he meant. Read history rather than playing video games or watching Hollywood movies. You will learn something rather than making outburst like emotional teenage girls talking about fashion.




Seriously?

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## Amaa'n

Bossman said:


> State of the art doesn’t get you anywhere. The Americans lost to skinny small soldiers wearing pajamas and sandals made of old tires in Vietnam. History is being repeated in Afghanistan.Saudi and UAE forces with state of the art equipment are loosing to houthis in Yemen. General Mitha the father of Pakistan special forces once said “ be proud of your poverty” Think about what he meant. Read history rather than playing video games or watching Hollywood movies. You will learn something rather than making outburst like emotional teenage girls talking about fashion.


you clearly have no idea whats happening in today's war do you? they are no longer fighting a rag tag force, be it Houthis, ISIS or Taliban, they have adopted the Guerrilla tactics along with latest gadgetry and ar fighting the enemy.....
Better equipment allowed US Special Ops / Tier 1 Operators / Knob Turners to intercept the Communications between enemy units & extract the Raw intel.....better equipment allowed US forces to carryout high risk Intel Ops where rapid infiltration & fast extraction was required, they would go in butcher the enemy and walkout with no casualty .......

Strategy & Equipment go hand in hand, you have one piece missing and it all falls out. We have Strategy, but we don't have the equipment hence we are struggling. We are loosing our young soldiers .... US has better equipment but no Strategy and they are suffering on the larger front due to this......

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## django

Horus said:


> These men deserve the cutting edge technology to do their job, not even state of the art. Equipment is not just for optics, they offer solid tactical advantages and protection.


Without doubt yet they still accomplish the most challenging of missions, Kudos to these brave men, they truly exemplify the motto, "Men at their best" and the only conceivable scenario where I can see these folks being issued with cutting edge gear is if the good Hazrat @Zarvan is given the portfolio of Minster of defence.Kudos Horus bhai

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## Bossman

balixd said:


> you clearly have no idea whats happening in today's war do you? they are no longer fighting a rag tag force, be it Houthis, ISIS or Taliban, they have adopted the Guerrilla tactics along with latest gadgetry and ar fighting the enemy.....
> Better equipment allowed US Special Ops / Tier 1 Operators / Knob Turners to intercept the Communications between enemy units & extract the Raw intel.....better equipment allowed US forces to carryout high risk Intel Ops where rapid infiltration & fast extraction was required, they would go in butcher the enemy and walkout with no casualty .......
> 
> Strategy & Equipment go hand in hand, you have one piece missing and it all falls out. We have Strategy, but we don't have the equipment hence we are struggling. We are loosing our young soldiers .... US has better equipment but no Strategy and they are suffering on the larger front due to this......


Then why the American and Saudis are loosing?


----------



## Amaa'n

Bossman said:


> Then why the American and Saudis are loosing?


Read the last para of my post.....
They are winning the Tactical War....but loosing it at the Strategic Level....two ae very different things

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## Army research

balixd said:


> Read the last para of my post.....
> They are winning the Tactical War....but loosing it at the Strategic Level....two ae very different things


I hope in the really near future the SOF start using mini drones which are now even commercially available , of course military specific one are more resistant to jamming etc and would provide great tactical recce capability , 
Further more out SOF really do need something akin to the gustav, and a javelin eq 
Right now our SF is only geared to fight Isrugents ,sophisticated insurgents , 
However an enemy force from another nation would have much heavier weapons , almost certain air superiority and a larger heli force, 
We need effective countermeasures


----------



## Awan68

Bossman said:


> Then why the American and Saudis are loosing?


The loss in vietnam was due to the support of the soviet union to the vietcong, the loss in Afghanistan is due to the support of Pakistani intel to the Taliban, u do knw that the Taliban govt in Kabul fell just 2 mnths after opp enduring freedom started, how's that for equipment superiority?.
The brain of the Taliban lies somewhere else hence the constant US pressure on Pakistan to let go in Afghanistan. If Pakistan backs off the Talis will be disintegrated in a matter of months.
Modern equipment opens up huge new venues of tactical manoeuvres, nothing can supplement it.
Dont mention Saudis in a serious discussion, they are just children with expensive toys.
At the end of the day a machine is only as good as its operator.
The fact of the matter is, currently no army can beat the yanks in a direct full blown conventional war. Guriella war is a different beast.

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## Irfan Baloch

Horus said:


> Im starting to hate the gear issued to SSG.


not a fan either

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## Bossman

balixd said:


> Read the last para of my post.....
> They are winning the Tactical War....but loosing it at the Strategic Level....two ae very different things


My foot! what tactical victory. Give me an example where they are winning. Go to YouTube and google those Afghan war documentaries where the maker is embedded with the troop and you will see poorly the Americans with all their gadgets are operating. What yoy are saying about Afghanistan is the same what they said about Vietnam. You loose strategically when you loose tactically. Rest is all spin


Army research said:


> I hope in the really near future the SOF start using mini drones which are now even commercially available , of course military specific one are more resistant to jamming etc and would provide great tactical recce capability ,
> Further more out SOF really do need something akin to the gustav, and a javelin eq
> Right now our SF is only geared to fight Isrugents ,sophisticated insurgents ,
> However an enemy force from another nation would have much heavier weapons , almost certain air superiority and a larger heli force,
> We need effective countermeasures


Totally wrong on all counts. They are using mini drone and they have man portable ATGMs and they have had them for many years.


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## gangsta_rap

If we go back 10 years TSK maroon berets and SSG might not look so different. But now look at the Maroon Berets in Syria compared to SSG here at home - there is a gap.


----------



## pzfz

Bossman said:


> Your problem and nobody cares. They are not on a fashion parade.


Problem for those getting killed. The lack of even mediocre equipment/accessories has gotten and will continue to get trained and valuable SF operatives killed while you mumble on about utter garbage. Pak has had an inordinate amount of its SF operatives getting killed recently against militants. Better start caring.

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## django



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## django



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## ghazi52




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## JPMM

NATO SOF operators all look very similair (use the same gear), this is Portuguese FOE

Thanks

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## gangsta_rap

@JPMM I see that they use the classic DPM while Portuguese regulars seem to utilize multicam


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## JPMM

GIANTsasquatch said:


> @JPMM I see that they use the classic DPM while Portuguese regulars seem to utilize multicam


The trowsers are DPM and the upper is Multicam. All will be replaced in 2019 by new one.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/portuguese-army-new-cammo.583795/#post-10915698

Thanks


----------



## django

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1059339945800818688

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## django

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1062322838500245504

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## Irfan Baloch

Awan68 said:


> The loss in vietnam was due to the support of the soviet union to the vietcong, the loss in Afghanistan is due to the support of Pakistani intel to the Taliban, u do knw that the Taliban govt in Kabul fell just 2 mnths after opp enduring freedom started, how's that for equipment superiority?.
> The brain of the Taliban lies somewhere else hence the constant US pressure on Pakistan to let go in Afghanistan. If Pakistan backs off the Talis will be disintegrated in a matter of months.
> Modern equipment opens up huge new venues of tactical manoeuvres, nothing can supplement it.
> Dont mention Saudis in a serious discussion, they are just children with expensive toys.
> At the end of the day a machine is only as good as its operator.
> The fact of the matter is, currently no army can beat the yanks in a direct full blown conventional war. Guriella war is a different beast.


Pakistan doesnt provide any intel support to Taliban
it is an absurd comment. why Taliban need Pakistani help in the intelligence gathering of their own country?
Pakistan facilitates the peace talks and any incoming taliban leaders who have been ambushed instead of meeting by the Americans hence they hold talks in Dubai and Russia now.

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## Awan68

Irfan Baloch said:


> Pakistan doesnt provide any intel support to Taliban
> it is an absurd comment. why Taliban need Pakistani help in the intelligence gathering of their own country?
> Pakistan facilitates the peace talks and any incoming taliban leaders who have been ambushed instead of meeting by the Americans hence they hold talks in Dubai and Russia now.


Ofcourse.........


----------



## lastofthepatriots

Not sure if this was already posted, but it's an excellent watch:


----------



## django

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1065520633772154880


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Windjammer

*Counter Terrorism Force, Islamabad. *





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Abu Zarrar

django said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1065520633772154880





django said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1065520633772154880


Sir ji share your twitter handle

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## django

Abu Zarrar said:


> Sir ji share your twitter handle


Unfortunately I do not have one though do browse accounts affiliated with PDF.Kudos Sir

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## Sharuf

Anyone knows about them?


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## django

Sharuf said:


> Anyone knows about them?


LCB with new uniform and issued with M4

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## Sharuf

django said:


> LCB with new uniform and issued with M4


Someone said, it's a new paratrooper regiment. I'm just confused


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## django

Sharuf said:


> Someone said, it's a new paratrooper regiment. I'm just confused


@DESERT FIGHTER Hazrat @Zarvan


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Sharuf said:


> Someone said, it's a new paratrooper regiment. I'm just confused


LCB are all para qualified... they wear the para badge.. here is their insignia;

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## HawkEye27

SSG - DEATH BEFORE DISGRACE

QUAID e AZAM GOLDEN WORDS






ISPR TRIBUTE TO SSG

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## Sharuf

SSGN

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## HRK

Sharuf said:


> SSGN


@Zarvan ^^

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## Zarvan

HRK said:


> @Zarvan ^^


HORUS told about it few days ago It seems G3 will get replaced by SCAR H and Type 56 by CZ 807


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## Imran Khan

Zarvan said:


> HORUS told about it few days ago It seems G3 will get replaced by SCAR H and Type 56 by CZ 807


sir my sweets will be due then ?


----------



## Zarvan

Imran Khan said:


> sir my sweets will be due then ?


I will still wait for official announcement

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## Imran Khan

Zarvan said:


> I will still wait for official announcement


i am not joking i will come to you for treat if scar got selected . beshak 25000 ki ticket lag jay

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## Abu Zarrar



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## Army research

Zarvan said:


> HORUS told about it few days ago It seems G3 will get replaced by SCAR H and Type 56 by CZ 807


Zarvan sir mithai idher England Bhi bhejni hai phir


----------



## Sharuf



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## Abu Zarrar

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


----------



## Bossman

Abu Zarrar said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


Not Pakistani. Wrong uniform, wrong rank insignia.

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## blain2

Abu Zarrar said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


Its Egyptian camouflage. Saiqa perhaps (SEF on the shirt).

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## Irfan Baloch

Zarvan said:


> HORUS told about it few days ago It seems G3 will get replaced by SCAR H and Type 56 by CZ 807


good to know 
too good to be true but hope it happens in our life time


----------



## ghazi52



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## Sharuf

SSGN


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## ghazi52




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## DESERT FIGHTER

ghazi52 said:


>


First pic is US.
Second pic is old marine pic.



ghazi52 said:


>


These guys are actors yaar, and posted several times... pic from yalghaar movie.

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## Sharuf

Just found this picture on a fan page, is this LCB's new uniform?


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## Kompromat

Sharuf said:


> Just found this picture on a fan page, is this LCB's new uniform?




Yes.

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## Wrath

MOO said:


> Does anyone know of any chance of the SSG operating U.S. M4 Carbines? If so, post some pics of them.


Yes they do have US M4 carbines


----------



## Pak_Track

Fahad Bilal said:


> Yes they do have US M4 carbines


bnde ko 12 saal jawab mil hi gya

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## Wrath

Pak_Track said:


> bnde ko 12 saal jawab mil hi gya


Kia Matlab Bhai jaan ??


----------



## Pindi Boy

Sharuf said:


> Just found this picture on a fan page, is this LCB's new uniform?


Awesome


----------



## Pindi Boy

Horus said:


> Yes.


Turkish sf have similar camo??


----------



## gangsta_rap

Pindi Boy said:


> Turkish sf have similar camo??


LCB Uses multicam which is pretty standard across NATO armies post 2010.

Turkish maroon berets use a pixelated arid camo.

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## Pak_Track

Fahad Bilal said:


> Kia Matlab Bhai jaan ??


Sir us ne 2006 main comment kya tha.


----------



## Wrath

Pak_Track said:


> Sir us ne 2006 main comment kya tha.


Oh ok


----------



## ghazi52

Pak Army Sky Diving Show On Pakistan Day Parade 23 March


*



*


----------



## Sabretooth

ghazi52 said:


> Pak Army Sky Diving Show On Pakistan Day Parade 23 March
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *



I am in the awe of General Bhutta's landing @ 09:45. He did it as effortlessly as stepping down a staircase. Kudos.


----------



## Ghost 125

no this is not authorized patteren uniform for LCB, the LCB and SSG guys somtimes wear modified and customized uniform articles individually. the authorized pattern for LCB is the same camofluge uniform as for the rest of the Army


----------



## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

.






Special Services Group (SSG) commandos perform during the Pakistan Day parade in Islamabad.

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## ghazi52

Investiture Ceremony held at General Headquarters, Rawalpindi.

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## ghazi52

Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Zafar Mahmood Abbasi award a Pakistan Navy Sailor with CNS letter of Commendation at PN investiture Ceremony held at Karachi..


----------



## Sharuf

Finally SSG started using this kind of stuff.


----------



## Ghost 125

only helmet is the new addition in this pic, wts so special about the rest , they ve been using this type of kit since early 2000 


Sharuf said:


> Finally SSG started using this kind of stuff.


----------



## Sharuf

Ghost 125 said:


> only helmet is the new addition in this pic, wts so special about the rest , they ve been using this type of kit since early 2000


Yeah talking about the helmet


----------



## gangsta_rap

Sharuf said:


> Yeah talking about the helmet


FAST helmets have been in use since early 2010s


----------



## Ghost 125

they were in use with SSW and NSSG but SSG has aquired them recently


GIANTsasquatch said:


> FAST helmets have been in use since early 2010s


----------



## Cuirassier

High cut helmets are perhaps with Zarrar ATU and/or 3rd CDO for now.


----------



## AMG_12

TF141 said:


> High cut helmets are perhaps with Zarrar ATU and/or 3rd CDO for now.


They're also in use with SSG(N) and SSW. SSG(N) introduced it, SSW followed and now we are seeing Zarrar deploying it as well.


----------



## Cuirassier

Game.Invade said:


> They're also in use with SSG(N) and SSW. SSG(N) introduced it, SSW followed and now we are seeing Zarrar deploying it as well.


Yes, I'm aware, was talking about Army SS Group.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Pic without the shytty watermark:

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## Ahmet Pasha

Guy has hairy arms...like me
Hehe
I like the way his veins pop out.
Ive been trying real hard for that. But they go back.

Any tips???
Is it cuz of dry skin???


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Pic without the shytty watermark:
> 
> View attachment 557448

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## Army research

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Guy has hairy arms...like me
> Hehe
> I like the way his veins pop out.
> Ive been trying real hard for that. But they go back.
> 
> Any tips???
> Is it cuz of dry skin???


Saab aap kya hum jhins pasand hain?

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## Ahmet Pasha

Nai yaar.
I like having a good looking body bro FOR MYSELF and potentially my future wife.


Army research said:


> Saab aap kya hum jhins pasand hain?



Apka mjhe nhi pata hehe.

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Cuirassier

SS Group Navy martyr.

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## Irfan Baloch

TF141 said:


> SS Group Navy martyr.
> View attachment 560185


rest in peace


----------



## Khafee

TF141 said:


> SS Group Navy martyr.
> View attachment 560185

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## Reichsmarschall



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## Reichsmarschall

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot is it the cool way of saying WTF?

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## Army research

Reichsmarschall said:


> Whiskey Tango Foxtrot is it the cool way of saying WTF?


Yaar this is from someone's Instagram account in tarbela, within an hour of him posting it 100000 fan boy pages came up with captions like " SSG OPERATOR IN FATA " or " BAT TEAM ON LOC" 
And yes it's most likely a way of saying WTF , 
Then they were people seeing he's American because Pakistanis can't write WTF on their helmet and what not


----------



## Cuirassier

Army research said:


> Yaar this is from someone's Instagram account in tarbela, within an hour of him posting it 100000 fan boy pages came up with captions like " SSG OPERATOR IN FATA " or " BAT TEAM ON LOC"
> And yes it's most likely a way of saying WTF ,
> Then they were people seeing he's American because Pakistanis can't write WTF on their helmet and what not


Yes, 3rd CDO is Tarbela based.

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## Army research

TF141 said:


> Yes, 3rd CDO is Tarbela based.


Pata nahi in fan boys ko FATA MAIN SSG OPERATOR WITH AMERICAN HELMET say kya obsession hai , the amount of time I've spent at tarbela I can tell it just by looking at the nature even the limited in this photo , this is the outskirts of the garrison there

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## Reichsmarschall

Army research said:


> Yaar this is from someone's Instagram account in tarbela, within an hour of him posting it 100000 fan boy pages came up with captions like " SSG OPERATOR IN FATA " or " BAT TEAM ON LOC"
> And yes it's most likely a way of saying WTF ,
> Then they were people seeing he's American because Pakistanis can't write WTF on their helmet and what not


lol american 
Mullah Powindah pathan thay texan nhe


----------



## Army research

Reichsmarschall said:


> lol american
> Mullah Powindah pathan thay texan nhe


Ik, so many pages of have proliferated his post and now his Insta story which had a helicopter passing over troops too is proliferated

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## Bratva

TF141 said:


> SS Group Navy martyr.
> View attachment 560185



Where he got shaheed?


----------



## Cuirassier

Bratva said:


> Where he got shaheed?


Random picture, pretty old not recent.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Cuirassier

Finally some optics on the Minimis


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 561334

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## Fledgingwings

Very good post  love these guys


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Credit: Hodor

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## Cuirassier

Captain Awwab should be credited [emoji1787]


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 561542
> 
> 
> Credit: Hodor

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Palestinians training in Pakistan: 













*

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## pzfz

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

see how much better an actual plate carrier (that's also not black) looks?

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## Amaa'n

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Palestinians training in Pakistan:
> 
> View attachment 562426
> View attachment 562427
> View attachment 562428
> View attachment 562429
> *


any idea on the optic these guys are running? it's not aimpoint


----------



## Cuirassier

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> any idea on the optic these guys are running? it's not aimpoint


Trijicon ACOG? Not sure.


----------



## Amaa'n

TF141 said:


> Trijicon ACOG? Not sure.


ACOF are different, those have a funnel like wider lens on one side....this is some aimpoint variant, cant put my finger on it yet

Its an aimpoint CompM series optic i think


----------



## Army research

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> ACOF are different, those have a funnel like wider lens on one side....this is some aimpoint variant, cant put my finger on it yet
> 
> Its an aimpoint CompM series optic i think


Aimpoint


----------



## Cuirassier

How SSG snipers get involved in countersniper action along the AfPak border. 

On 011515 Dec 17, Cdo AL AZB BN SSG sniper Sep Zulfiqar att/emp with an NLI bn successfully hit 1 x Ts Sniper who was present at Sniper Ridge inside Afg (432822), NLI AoR.

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## ghazi52

1910s: A badge of British regiment carved by soldiers stationed in Cherat

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## Metal 0-1

Why won't our SOF use Suppressors attached to their M4s or desert camo them. Just saying.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Suppressors do suppress the noise but not by a lot. The shots are still quite loud. In reality the sound is not suppressed to the level shown in video games.


Metal 0-1 said:


> Why won't our SOF use Suppressors attached to their M4s or desert camo them. Just saying.


----------



## Metal 0-1

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Suppressors do suppress the noise but not by a lot. The shots are still quite loud. In reality the sound is not suppressed to the level shown in video games.


But they are good for night time ops.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Metal 0-1 said:


> Why won't our SOF use Suppressors attached to their M4s or desert camo them. Just saying.


They do, there are pics showing supressed M4s.


----------



## Metal 0-1

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> They do, there are pics showing supressed M4s.


Can you show me the pics or just give me the link..


----------



## PDF

Sorry if these are posted before...

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## Metal 0-1

Zarrar ATU Boys....








Sorry for the fanpage cute qoute...

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## Metal 0-1

SSW Elite Operators with FN SCAR H 17(hybrid sight;Aimpoint Comp m4 +3x Magnifier) and second one with Probably Remington RSASS.





They just need Fancy gear to wear and they will look like Totally US SOCOM Operators✌✌

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## Pakhtoon yum

Metal 0-1 said:


> Zarrar ATU Boys....
> View attachment 567755
> View attachment 567756
> 
> 
> Sorry for the fanpage cute qoute...


That ring better have superpowers or it's a dress code violation


----------



## Metal 0-1

Pakhtoon yum said:


> That ring better have superpowers or it's a dress code violation


Don't kill the vibe of SF dudes.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> They do, there are pics showing supressed M4s.


Still looking forward to suppressed M-4s


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Pakistan dhould make our own call of duty. About all the zarrar stealth operations such as manawa police academy and GHQ rescue. And the campaigns in North/South Wstan. Where SSG landed on a mountain, established a forward base and very rapidly cleared the area. 

The person who does so will make tons of money.


Metal 0-1 said:


> Zarrar ATU Boys....
> View attachment 567755
> View attachment 567756
> 
> 
> Sorry for the fanpage cute qoute...



RSASS is cool. Never understood why a sniper should take too long to load. Like the other bolt action ones maybe they have some sort of advantage.


Metal 0-1 said:


> SSW Elite Operators with FN SCAR H 17(hybrid sight;Aimpoint Comp m4 +3x Magnifier) and second one with Probably Remington RSASS.
> View attachment 567891
> 
> 
> They just need Fancy gear to wear and they will look like Totally US SOCOM Operators✌✌

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## Metal 0-1

Pakistan and Russian Naval Special Forces during joint exercises. Flag on Russsian operator explains alot....

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## Ahmet Pasha

Seems russians are not sending tier 1 operators at this stage?


Metal 0-1 said:


> Pakistan and Russian Naval Special Forces during joint exercises. Flag on Russsian operator explains alot....
> View attachment 568139

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## Ahmet Pasha

This guy looks like he was training arabs or Pakistanis
Camo looks alot like SSGN in background

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## Metal 0-1

Ahmet Pasha said:


> This guy looks like he was training arabs or Pakistanis
> Camo looks alot like SSGN in background
> View attachment 568183


Yeah its clearly ssgn


----------



## Bossman

Metal 0-1 said:


> Yeah its clearly ssgn


SSGN were trained by US SEALS


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Do they still do it??
There was a video recently of SSGN training with Coast Guards?? 


Bossman said:


> SSGN were trained by US SEALS

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## Bossman

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Do they still do it??
> There was a video recently of SSGN training with Coast Guards??


SEALS were based in Garo near Karachi for a while. SeeBees built the base. They are not there any more.


----------



## Metal 0-1

SSGN operator during EFFES 2016...
In Turkey.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Gen Tariq Khan in one of his interviews said he got the Americans to train FC in Balochistan.





Then there is video of this guy claiming he saw action in Bonistan. I looked up Bonistan and it's in Balochistan.

So could he be operating in pakistan on behalf of PA or some secret ops for US Government???


Metal 0-1 said:


> SSGN operator during EFFES 2016...
> In Turkey.
> View attachment 568440





Metal 0-1 said:


> SSGN operator during EFFES 2016...
> In Turkey.
> View attachment 568440


Been posted here ALOT


----------



## iLION12345_1

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Gen Tariq Khan in one of his interviews said he got the Americans to train FC in Balochistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there is video of this guy claiming he saw action in Bonistan. I looked up Bonistan and it's in Balochistan.
> 
> So could he be operating in pakistan on behalf of PA or some secret ops for US Government???


LOL. Did you actually think he was telling the truth? I’ve been following both those guys for years. They make great content. And the “real stories” that guy tells are running jokes of the channel that all the viewers know about, it’s true that he was American SF. But all he says are just jokes. You can clearly tell if you watch the video closely. He probably doesn’t even know about bonistan and thought it up on the spot, when this video came out even I searched up bonistan and tried to find some history. Even though I knew he was joking. Couldn’t really find much since it’s just a little town.
In short: nope, he was never here, just a running gag.

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## Thorough Pro

There is a lot of myth about suppressors in the minds of people who have not been exposed to weapons in the real life.

When a weapon is discharged, three different sounds from three different sources are generated.
1. Explosive exhaust of expanding gases from the barrel 
2. Movement of the slide or action of the gun
3. sound of the projectile travelling through air

The suppressor only reduces the sound of explosive exhaust by allowing the gasses to expand gradually in the suppressor chamber

Sound of slide/action can be controlled by using a manual action (single shot) rifle (possible only in clandestine/assassination shootings) can't work on a semi/full auto weapon

Sound of the projectile moving through air can be reduced by using sub-sonic ammo

Even after doing all that, there would still be some sound, how loud? depends on the weapon, the environment, and quality of ammo. 




Ahmet Pasha said:


> Suppressors do suppress the noise but not by a lot. The shots are still quite loud. In reality the sound is not suppressed to the level shown in video games.

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## iLION12345_1

Thorough Pro said:


> There is a lot of myth about suppressors in the minds of people who have not been exposed to weapons in the real life.
> 
> When a weapon is discharged, three different sounds from three different sources are generated.
> 1. Explosive exhaust of expanding gases from the barrel
> 2. Movement of the slide or action of the gun
> 3. sound of the projectile travelling through air
> 
> The suppressor only reduces the sound of explosive exhaust by allowing the gasses to expand gradually in the suppressor chamber
> 
> Sound of slide/action can be controlled by using a manual action (single shot) rifle (possible only in clandestine/assassination shootings) can't work on a semi/full auto weapon
> 
> Sound of the projectile moving through air can be reduced by using sub-sonic ammo
> 
> Even after doing all that, there would still be some sound, how loud? depends on the weapon, the environment, and quality of ammo.


Yep. If you put a suppressor on an AR or AK. You’d still need hearing protection as it’s loud enough to hurt.
The quietest possible Weapon is the Welrod and it’s modern Swiss derivatives which use subsonic ammo and a system of baffles and Suppressor to reduce its sound to Near Video game like quiet levels. But even that’s for a few shots until the baffles are perforated.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

He didn't make it up on the spot. You're over simplifying things dude. He said it in a serious way. The other guy thought it's a joke.


iLION12345_1 said:


> LOL. Did you actually think he was telling the truth? I’ve been following both those guys for years. They make great content. And the “real stories” that guy tells are running jokes of the channel that all the viewers know about, it’s true that he was American SF. But all he says are just jokes. You can clearly tell if you watch the video closely. He probably doesn’t even know about bonistan and thought it up on the spot, when this video came out even I searched up bonistan and tried to find some history. Even though I knew he was joking. Couldn’t really find much since it’s just a little town.
> In short: nope, he was never here, just a running gag.


----------



## Sharuf

Anyone got some old pictures of Pakistani special ops? Like from 60s 70s...


----------



## Army research

Ahmet Pasha said:


> He didn't make it up on the spot. You're over simplifying things dude. He said it in a serious way. The other guy thought it's a joke.


Its the channel running gag


----------



## Amaa'n

We can laugh as much as we want and believe it to be a joke but the fact remains the same - US Spec Ops / Contractors have operated along Pak Spec Ops / Intel teams in tribal areas during 2004-2007.
There was mutual understanding on both sides, CIA had safe houses set up in tribal areas manned by Pak Spec Ops while hunting AQ HVTs.
thats what pissed off the tribal locals in first place....


Ahmet Pasha said:


> Gen Tariq Khan in one of his interviews said he got the Americans to train FC in Balochistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there is video of this guy claiming he saw action in Bonistan. I looked up Bonistan and it's in Balochistan.
> 
> So could he be operating in pakistan on behalf of PA or some secret ops for US Government???
> 
> 
> 
> Been posted here ALOT





iLION12345_1 said:


> LOL. Did you actually think he was telling the truth? I’ve been following both those guys for years. They make great content. And the “real stories” that guy tells are running jokes of the channel that all the viewers know about, it’s true that he was American SF. But all he says are just jokes. You can clearly tell if you watch the video closely. He probably doesn’t even know about bonistan and thought it up on the spot, when this video came out even I searched up bonistan and tried to find some history. Even though I knew he was joking. Couldn’t really find much since it’s just a little town.
> In short: nope, he was never here, just a running gag.

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## Fieldmarshal

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> We can laugh as much as we want and believe it to be a joke but the fact remains the same - US Spec Ops / Contractors have operated along Pak Spec Ops / Intel teams in tribal areas during 2004-2007.
> There was mutual understanding on both sides, CIA had safe houses set up in tribal areas manned by Pak Spec Ops while hunting AQ HVTs.
> thats what pissed off the tribal locals in first place....


That friend is nothing more than hear say ....for starters all the opps within Pak were carried out by our own troops. the yanks were mostly shit scared and even though they were to accompany our troops on all ops. They preferred to stay within the confines of our "fortresses". They were a not a platoon or a section strength but at most were 2 non coms who were their basically as observers
These yanks had to vet all our claims of expense and without their signature it was all a no go.
But as it turned out they would sign all our expense receipts without blinking an eye as in return we would vouch for the fact they accompanied our troops.
Plus who ever was providing weapons also send trainers. So back in the day, one fine winters morning on the range I saw Americans, British and French trainers, all on the same range training our troops.
So I asked a senior officers as to wt This circus is all about, so he replied " u listen to every one but u only do wts right and good for Pakistan".


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Fieldmarshal said:


> u listen to every one but u only do wts right and good for Pakistan".


I laughed hardest on this part. Mush's era definitely was a confusing quagmire. And cost Pakistan a lot. Mushie thinking whities are our friends. Now there is more clarity.



Foxtrot Alpha said:


> We can laugh as much as we want and believe it to be a joke but the fact remains the same - US Spec Ops / Contractors have operated along Pak Spec Ops / Intel teams in tribal areas during 2004-2007.
> There was mutual understanding on both sides, CIA had safe houses set up in tribal areas manned by Pak Spec Ops while hunting AQ HVTs.
> thats what pissed off the tribal locals in first place....


Agreed. So if they were in FATA. Then they easily could also have been in Balochistan.

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## iLION12345_1

Ahmet Pasha said:


> He didn't make it up on the spot. You're over simplifying things dude. He said it in a serious way. The other guy thought it's a joke.


Nah mate. I’ve been watching that channel for years and I know for a fact that it’s a joke. I told you, it’s a running joke of the channel, he’s claimed to have assassinated OBL and take down 250 Taliban with the exact same seriousness as before, thats supposed to be the joke. 
I can say without much doubt that the CIA and American Spec Ops we’re here and might have operated in Pakistan too. But this is purely coincidental since he’s not some special agent. You can track his entire deployment through his social media and books. But I will admit that I can’t know what I can’t see, only allah can. Maybe there’s a hidden truth to it.


----------



## Metal 0-1

Zarrar ATU. With Newer Magpul CTR stock and modern Sling


----------



## Cuirassier

Pretty dated, when these officers were at Stirling Lines.


Metal 0-1 said:


> Zarrar ATU. With Newer Magpul CTR stock and modern Sling
> View attachment 571285

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## Reichsmarschall

Brother in arms

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## Metal 0-1

Reichsmarschall said:


> Brother in arms


Isn't this pic of joint naval special forces ongoing in karachi ??//


----------



## Reichsmarschall

Metal 0-1 said:


> Isn't this pic of joint naval special forces ongoing in karachi ??//


I have no idea where this is from as i got this picture from twitter, the person who tweeted it didnt mention any location


----------



## Metal 0-1

Reichsmarschall said:


> I have no idea where this is from as i got this picture from twitter, the person who tweeted it didnt mention any location


i think it is pic of the exercises

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## Ghost 125

Metal 0-1 said:


> Zarrar ATU. With Newer Magpul CTR stock and modern Sling
> View attachment 571285


No, the pic is from joint exercise in SAS training facilty in UK, and the weapon belong to SAS

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## Metal 0-1

Ghost 125 said:


> No, the pic is from joint exercise in SAS training facilty in UK, and the weapon belong to SAS


thanks Bruu for enlighting me. 
by the way when did our SF went to UK.. maybe i can see more stuff


----------



## Cuirassier

Metal 0-1 said:


> thanks Bruu for enlighting me.
> by the way when did our SF went to UK.. maybe i can see more stuff


some other pictures.
View attachment 571295

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## Cuirassier

Metal 0-1 said:


> thanks Bruu for enlighting me.
> by the way when did our SF went to UK.. maybe i can see more stuff


some other pictures.
View attachment 571295
View attachment 571296

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## Irfan Baloch

Ghost 125 said:


> No, the pic is from joint exercise in SAS training facilty in UK, and the weapon belong to SAS


But the terrain is unlike UK 
Its soil without grass
SAS camp is in Wales and its lush green


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Zarrars supposed to be tier 1 operators. The least they could've done was blur faces or wear a balaclava.


Metal 0-1 said:


> Zarrar ATU. With Newer Magpul CTR stock and modern Sling
> View attachment 571285


----------



## Amaa'n

Metal 0-1 said:


> Zarrar ATU. With Newer Magpul CTR stock and modern Sling
> View attachment 571285


weapon is not ours - we don't use the CTR stocks or the Free Float handrails / Quad Rails with M-lok design ...this one for sure belongs to the instructor because it is all kitted up, the Grip is after market too along with the Muzzle brake

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## Metal 0-1

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> weapon is not ours - we don't use the CTR stocks or the Free Float handrails / Quad Rails with M-lok design ...this one for sure belongs to the instructor because it is all kitted up, the Grip is after market too along with the Muzzle brake


Thanks for enlighting me....



Irfan Baloch said:


> But the terrain is unlike UK
> Its soil without grass
> SAS camp is in Wales and its lush green


Building designs resembles with English architect looks like Regent street barracks..

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## Irfan Baloch

Metal 0-1 said:


> Thanks for enlighting me....
> 
> 
> Building designs resembles with English architect looks like Regent street barracks..


2 irrelevant picutres bud
The one you are referring to is group photo in Europe for sure

I questioneda different one with SSG and. Turkish personnel taking aim and shooting 
The background is dry land and shrubs more local than West


----------



## Metal 0-1

Irfan Baloch said:


> 2 irrelevant picutres bud
> The one you are referring to is group photo in Europe for sure
> 
> I questioneda different one with SSG and. Turkish personnel taking aim and shooting
> The background is dry land and shrubs more local than West


My Bad. Never Mind


----------



## Ghost 125

Irfan Baloch said:


> But the terrain is unlike UK
> Its soil without grass
> SAS camp is in Wales and its lush green


what terrain. the pic i ve mentioned is in front of a building and in builtup area.


----------



## Metal 0-1

Does anybody have info on these camo patterns...

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## Mr.Cringeworth

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> weapon is not ours - we don't use the CTR stocks or the Free Float handrails / Quad Rails with M-lok design ...this one for sure belongs to the instructor because it is all kitted up, the Grip is after market too along with the Muzzle brake


Yup that's what i was confused about as well the m-lok is not very popular outside of US.


----------



## Reichsmarschall

Metal 0-1 said:


> Does anybody have info on these camo patterns...
> View attachment 573698
> View attachment 573699


US Army and USMC camo


----------



## Lone Ranger

Metal 0-1 said:


> Does anybody have info on these camo patterns...
> View attachment 573698
> View attachment 573699



*Strategic Plans Division Force (SPDF)*

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## Metal 0-1

Reichsmarschall said:


> US Army and USMC camo


i know this is usmc camo.
i want to know was what branch of army us this..



Lone Ranger said:


> *Strategic Plans Division Force (SPDF)*
> 
> View attachment 573728


And the first one. Looks like army digital camo with woodland touch....


----------



## Ghost 125

Metal 0-1 said:


> i know this is usmc camo.
> i want to know was what branch of army us this..
> 
> 
> And the first one. Looks like army digital camo with woodland touch....


these are not standard issue patterns, rather customized by individuals and units.
the guy in the 1st pic is wearing FC modified shirt. the 2nd one has already been mentioned above by someone

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## Metal 0-1

Ghost 125 said:


> these are not standard issue patterns, rather customized by individuals and units.
> the guy in the 1st pic is wearing FC modified shirt. the 2nd one has already been mentioned above by someone


Thanks bru


----------



## PDF

Independence day celebration at Pakistan Embassy in Kabul, 14 Aug, 2019.

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## sohailbarki

Hachiman said:


> Independence day celebration at Pakistan Embassy in Kabul, 14 Aug, 2019.


SSG defending the embassy, Nice


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

I have a Question for senior members and ex-military personal.
Is this kind of training useful in the field. I know it's for competitive shooting but does it translates to real live combat scenarios




?


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

LCBs or FC SOG


Metal 0-1 said:


> Does anybody have info on these camo patterns...
> View attachment 573698
> View attachment 573699


----------



## Ghost 125

Ahmet Pasha said:


> LCBs or FC SOG


neither LCB nor SOG, one guy is a regular SPD soldier and the other is an FC clerk , clearly written with his name
basically that guy can be anyone, he is brandishing a name plate of a clerk at the same time wearing an insignia of ssg on the other shoulder, lol, wearing an FC modified shirt with ARMY written over it andddd also wearing a woodland ssg type trouser lol...he is a hybrid
this is not official attire

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## Sharuf

Since I couldn't find other thread, which vehicle is that in back?


----------



## Metal 0-1

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> I have a Question for senior members and ex-military personal.
> Is this kind of training useful in the field. I know it's for competitive shooting but does it translates to real live combat scenarios
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


Yes it is....
You never know what is going to happen. Be prepared for worse. 
Although it is essential in CQB to engage multiple targets at high pace. 
You have noted in this video they are also training for target acquisition which is require for engaging terrorist in crowded areas...

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## ghazi52

*CNS inaugurated Special Service Operational Training Centre.*

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## Ahmet Pasha

Related to SSGN??
They did good job blotting out the contents of the plaque.


ghazi52 said:


> *CNS inaugurated Special Service Operational Training Centre.*


----------



## Metal 0-1

Really Obsessed with Zarrar boys..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ayylidiz 2019

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## Sharuf

Why our infantry and special force's guys have different kinds of vests in almost every picture?
Btw this one looks good, should've been green


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Sharuf said:


> Why our infantry and special force's guys have different kinds of vests in almost every picture?
> Btw this one looks good, should've been green


SSG seems to have moved on to these plate carriers.

You would see SSG operators wearing these exclusively after 2016.



Sharuf said:


> Why our infantry and special force's guys have different kinds of vests in almost every picture?
> Btw this one looks good, should've been green


Even Police is moving to similiar plate carrier.

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## Sharuf

Anyone got this picture without that poor watermark?


----------



## Cuirassier

Sharuf said:


> Anyone got this picture without that poor watermark?


There's a Tribune report on this exercise, you'll find it there.


----------



## Sharuf

TF141 said:


> There's a Tribune report on this exercise, you'll find it there.


Found it, thank you!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Sharuf said:


> Found it, thank you!


Post it here man.


----------



## Sharuf

Oops forgot about that
Right ones looks like SSG guys and left ones of SSGN with one of SSW

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## Metal 0-1

Found this on internet. Don't know if it is already posted.


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


----------



## Metal 0-1

Don't you guys think its time to buy newer types of M4A1 Block II as well for SOF. Or simply change our supplier because US play sanction sanction every time. Heckler & Koch HK-416 is a good choice.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Good installation/TriSerices SSGroups should team up and create one big facility like Jordan's KASOTC.


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Ayylidiz 2019
> 
> View attachment 576473
> View attachment 576474
> View attachment 576475
> View attachment 576476
> View attachment 576477
> View attachment 576478
> View attachment 576479
> View attachment 576480
> View attachment 576481


----------



## Signalian

sohailbarki said:


> SSG defending the embassy, Nice


" defending " ....

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## Sharuf

Now that's a beautiful picture except for that watermark

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## Ahmet Pasha

Woodland camo is a bit old tho. But maybe it is what works best


Sharuf said:


> Now that's a beautiful picture except for that watermark


----------



## Wrath

Signalian said:


> " defending " ....


Sir what's SOW ? Has it been recently raised ?


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

FC Balochistan and KP


Wrath said:


> Sir what's SOW ? Has it been recently raised ?

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## Wrath

Ahmet Pasha said:


> FC Balochistan and KP


Thanks man.


----------



## Sharuf

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Woodland camo is a bit old tho. But maybe it is what works best


Perhaps a new digital woodland camo would be good

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## Stealth



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## Metal 0-1

SSGN Conducting CQC Exerccise

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## babrum

WATCH THIS AND PLEASE EXPRESS OPINIONS


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## S-A-B-E-R->

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 590686
> 
> 
> View attachment 590687
> 
> 
> View attachment 590688
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 590689
> 
> 
> View attachment 590690


Man these FAST helmets...


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Pak-Canuck

Ahmet Pasha said:


> This guy looks like he was training arabs or Pakistanis
> Camo looks alot like SSGN in background
> View attachment 568183



That's Jocko Willink, one of the most famous well known SEALS (now retired). He's a great motivational speaker now, you can listen to more about him on his podcasts on youtube. Pretty interesting if he was the one training Pak special forces as in the pic.

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## Zarvan

Stealth said:


> View attachment 588444


By the way any idea How many they are. I really hope eventually both SSGN and SSW grow up to be of 2500 Boys each and SSG around 8000


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

SSG is at least a division sized force now


Zarvan said:


> By the way any idea How many they are. I really hope eventually both SSGN and SSW grow up to be of 2500 Boys each and SSG around 8000


----------



## Cuirassier

Ahmet Pasha said:


> SSG is at least a division sized force now


SS Group Battalions are half strength of regular ones, so the actual strength is about 4,000-5,000 overall.

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## Zarvan

Ahmet Pasha said:


> SSG is at least a division sized force now


Infantry division is around 40000 mostly there is no way we have around 40000 SSG guys. SSG is not a joke. I would doubt that we have more than 12000 SSG guys.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Yeah I had read on wiki battalion so I thought division.

I was wrong @Zarvan 


TF141 said:


> SS Group Battalions are half strength of regular ones, so the actual strength is about 4,000-5,000 overall.

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## ghazi52

Army chief visits SSG headquarters, lauds contributions of its officers and soldiers for the country’s defence.

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----------



## Sunny4pak

*Salute to SSG Commandos of Pakistan Armed Forces 2019*


----------



## Metal 0-1

SSW PJ During C-SAR Exercise

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## loanranger

Tribute to Shabaz Group.


----------



## babrum



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## Metal 0-1

Sorry for this cute little quote. SF Equipment really started to get better. Look at the mechanix gloves. I really not sure is this SSG or SSG-N. Do someone have info on this?


----------



## Ghost 125

Metal 0-1 said:


> Sorry for this cute little quote. SF Equipment really started to get better. Look at the mechanix gloves. I really not sure is this SSG or SSG-N. Do someone have info on this?
> View attachment 601808


these r most probably his pesronaly purchased gloves

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## Metal 0-1

Ghost 125 said:


> these r most probably his pesronaly purchased gloves


That I was thinking after posting this picture.
Can you identify him as SSG or SSG-N.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Raz ko raz rehne do


Metal 0-1 said:


> That I was thinking after posting this picture.
> Can you identify him as SSG or SSG-N.


----------



## Metal 0-1

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Raz ko raz rehne do


all right


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Metal 0-1 said:


> Sorry for this cute little quote. SF Equipment really started to get better. Look at the mechanix gloves. I really not sure is this SSG or SSG-N. Do someone have info on this?
> View attachment 601808


SSW:

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## Metal 0-1

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> SSW:
> View attachment 602630


I think of SSG-N


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

View attachment 605339






View attachment 605342



View attachment 605344

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## DESERT FIGHTER

SSG operator during Pak Sri Lanka Cricket match:

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## Irfan Baloch

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 606717
> View attachment 606718
> View attachment 606717
> View attachment 606718


who are these happy chaps?
occasion? place?
local only or combines training with foreign troops too?


----------



## blain2

Irfan Baloch said:


> who are these happy chaps?
> occasion? place?
> local only or combines training with foreign troops too?


SSW.


----------



## ghazi52

1910s: Cherat Hills - Nowshera
The Scottish regiment pictured is the old Seaforth Highlanders, now the 4th Battalion of the Royal Regiment of Scotland.

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## Kompromat

Removed some photos. @DESERT FIGHTER 

TX



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 605355
> View attachment 605357
> View attachment 605358
> View attachment 605359
> View attachment 605360
> View attachment 605361
> View attachment 605362
> View attachment 605363
> View attachment 605364
> View attachment 605365
> View attachment 605370
> View attachment 605371
> View attachment 605372
> View attachment 605373
> View attachment 605374

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Horus said:


> Removed some photos. @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> TX


Cant, im not a mod.


----------



## Kompromat

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Cant, im not a mod.


I did


----------



## babrum

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


----------



## Abu Zarrar

LCBs

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## Irfan Baloch

Abu Zarrar said:


> LCBs


instructors are giggling and repeatedly telling the recruits *NOT *to put their facing inside water and NOT to dive but some continue to do exactly that missing the word *NOT*.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

babrum said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
> 
> 
> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
> 
> 
> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
> 
> 
> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


These are LCB, this place is nesr my home.
Actually I saw the deployment there, while i was going to some place.


----------



## babrum

r


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> These are LCB, this place is nesr my home.
> Actually I saw the deployment there, while i was going to some place.


really? they look like atu where is this place?


----------



## Metal 0-1

No. 3 Commando Battalion, "Powindah's" Tier 1 operators for CT and mountain warfare.

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## Kompromat

How many times do we have to post this picture? 



Metal 0-1 said:


> No. 3 Commando Battalion, "Powindah's" Tier 1 operators for CT and mountain warfare.
> 
> View attachment 622698


----------



## babrum

Metal 0-1 said:


> No. 3 Commando Battalion, "Powindah's" Tier 1 operators for CT and mountain warfare.
> View attachment 622698


is he not worried about opsec?


----------



## Metal 0-1

Horus said:


> How many times do we have to post this picture?


I don't see this picture here before....If it is posted before I apologize.



babrum said:


> is he not worried about opsec?


This is not a live Op and how many pictures posted here before have given shit about opsec..


----------



## JohnWick

Why 90% of images of this thread are deleted? @The Eagle @Slav Defence @Irfan Baloch

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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Pak-Saudi Ex 2018 :














































*

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## babrum

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 625312
> View attachment 625313
> View attachment 625314
> View attachment 625315
> View attachment 625316
> View attachment 625317
> View attachment 625318
> View attachment 625319
> View attachment 625320


 gear looks awesome


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## DESERT FIGHTER

babrum said:


> gear looks awesome


It is actually better now than back in 2018. Plate carrier , fast helmets and all.

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## babrum

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It is actually better now than back in 2018. Plate carrier , fast helmets and all.


 yup other than that they look so badass and scary


----------



## Metal 0-1

Ye


babrum said:


> gear looks awesome


Yeah yeah, mediocre vests old PASGT helmets...


----------



## gangsta_rap

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> fast helmets and all.



FAST helmets with cold war era 1980s camo - only in pakistan


----------



## Metal 0-1

Angry Easterling said:


> FAST helmets with cold war era 1980s camo - only in pakistan


US MARSOC and somewhat Green Berets, US Navy SWCC teams arestill using these camo. They wear expensive Crye BDU and FAST helmets with this old cold war era Camo..


----------



## Metal 0-1

A nice picture of Zarrar boys ruined by this fanpage watermark..

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## JohnWick

Metal 0-1 said:


> A nice picture of Zarrar boys ruined by this fanpage watermark..
> View attachment 627614


Cod Mod 2020 in real life.


----------



## Sharuf

New SSG camo?

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## JohnWick

Sharuf said:


> New SSG camo?


Yup a copy of OCP of US army....
It is sth like 2020 Wood Camo


----------



## Cuirassier

Man - it'll take some time to adjust. Suitable for LC though.


----------



## Lone Ranger

Sharuf said:


> New SSG camo?


I think it is for LCB


----------



## Cuirassier

Lone Ranger said:


> I think it is for LCB


He has a Combat Diver Badge, plus you can see the faint imprint of the commando wing badge over his right breast.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Nice they finally changed the 90s woodland camo


----------



## Metal 0-1

Doesn't looks good enough. Modern SOF are using Multicams. Don't know what they were thinking. It will really help if they make Combat Shirts and Pants with padding.
They need to adopt Multicam BDUs

On a side note: Good to see peltors set. It will be really nice if they use two way (comms + protection) in operations. Swag is temporary, Hearing damage is permanent.



JohnWick said:


> Yup a copy of OCP of US army....
> It is sth like 2020 Wood Camo


Nah, not even close to OCP. OCP is multicam pattern. This is a digital woodland pattern.

It looks like more of US Marines MARPAT digital woodland.


----------



## babrum

Metal 0-1 said:


> Doesn't looks good enough. Modern SOF are using Multicams. Don't know what they were thinking. It will really help if they make Combat Shirts and Pants with padding.
> They need to adopt Multicam BDUs
> 
> On a side note: Good to see peltors set. It will be really nice if they use two way (comms + protection) in operations. Swag is temporary, Hearing damage is permanent.
> 
> Nah, not even close to OCP. OCP is multicam pattern. This is a digital woodland pattern.
> 
> It looks like more of US Marines MARPAT digital woodland.


 paisa ho to kya kuch nai hosakta


----------



## Metal 0-1

babrum said:


> paisa ho to kya kuch nai hosakta


LCBs are using Multicam and Padded Combat BDU last time I checked.

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## Cuirassier

Metal 0-1 said:


> LCBs are using Multicam and Padded Combat BDU last time I checked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 630105


They do use woodland - especially their anti-terror platoons.


----------



## Metal 0-1

TF141 said:


> They do use woodland - especially their anti-terror platoons.


I know they use Woodland.
I am not talking about this please read my above posts


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## Cuirassier

Metal 0-1 said:


> I know they use Woodland.
> I am not talking about this please read my above posts


which ones? didn't refute anything.


----------



## Metal 0-1

TF141 said:


> which ones? didn't refute anything.


First 3413>>3414>>3415

If you don't understand, then tell me

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## gangsta_rap

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Nice they finally changed the 90s woodland camo


80s - its called the m81 woodland


----------



## Amaa'n

@Metal 0-1 deleted for OPSEC reasons ....whoever is the source of this, speak to them and have it removed

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## Metal 0-1

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> @Metal 0-1 deleted for OPSEC reasons ....whoever is the source of this, speak to them and have it removed


Right away sir.



Foxtrot Alpha said:


> @Metal 0-1 deleted for OPSEC reasons ....whoever is the source of this, speak to them and have it removed



That guy is not complying..

@Foxtrot Alpha I reported him to Cyber Crime wing lets hope...


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

SSG with captured indian weapons:

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## Metal 0-1

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> SSG with captured indian weapons:
> View attachment 633539
> View attachment 633540



Bren and SLR/FAL

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## Ahmet Pasha

Metal 0-1 said:


> SLR/FAL


They call it INSAS.
LMG is probably FN MAG or Israeli Negev


----------



## Metal 0-1

Ahmet Pasha said:


> They call it INSAS.
> LMG is probably FN MAG or Israeli Negev


Are you high or What tell me the year they inducted INSAS. 
That's a old photo. There is a fine line between FAL and INSAS. 

And, that is a Bren not FN Mag or IWI Negev.

Coming from a person who have knowledge in old weapons.(Not Me)

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## Ahmet Pasha

INSAS *is* FAL with wooden furniture.
And that is not a bren. It is much longer and has a handle on it for carrying 


Metal 0-1 said:


> Are you high or What tell me the year they inducted INSAS.
> That's a old photo. There is a fine line between FAL and INSAS.
> 
> And, that is a Bren not FN Mag or IWI Negev.
> 
> Coming from a person who have knowledge in old weapons.(Not Me)


----------



## Metal 0-1

Ahmet Pasha said:


> INSAS *is* FAL with wooden furniture.
> And that is not a bren. It is much longer and has a handle on it for carrying



INSAS is FAL sure.

So cheap a** Type-56 is also AK-12


----------



## alikazmi007

Metal 0-1 said:


> INSAS is FAL sure.
> 
> So cheap a** Type-56 is also AK-12



I've been to the range with FAL....Kicks like a mule! It could certainly use a good compensator.


----------



## Blacklight

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> SSG with captured indian weapons:
> View attachment 633539
> View attachment 633540


Dear Brother, What is the story behind this? Any details, would be appreciated. But do keep in mind that this is an open forum.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Blacklight said:


> Dear Brother, What is the story behind this? Any details, would be appreciated. But do keep in mind that this is an open forum.


These pics are from the 90s, captured from our indian friends.

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## aziqbal

SSGN has a very tough life 

the sea tires you out


----------



## Metal 0-1

SSW PJs embedded with Air Force's SAR and C-SAR teams.

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## truthfollower

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> SSG with captured indian weapons:
> View attachment 633539
> View attachment 633540


no disrespect but sorry to say, There was IED attack a few days ago on our soldiers and I was wondering why they are targeting us like this and here i got my answer. 
Better both countries stop this madness but looks like this cycle will continue


----------



## JohnWick

Metal 0-1 said:


> INSAS is FAL sure.
> 
> So cheap a** Type-56 is also AK-12


He was right....
INSAS




FAL

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## gangsta_rap

INSAS has features inspired from the AK series (just look at the tubes for the gas-operation) - it is not a carbon copy of the FAL

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## JohnWick

Angry Easterling said:


> INSAS has features inspired from the AK series (just look at the tubes for the gas-operation) - it is not a carbon copy of the FAL


Actually it was a replacement for SLR/FAL/G1 rifle for IA....
IT is nothing but a FAL chambered in 5.56*45 instead of 7.62*51 with plastic magazine and less weight....for weight reduction and other tactical advantages of 5.56*45 caliber in battlefield as an injured soldier is far damaging than a dead one....


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

JohnWick said:


> He was right....
> INSAS
> View attachment 634519
> 
> FAL
> View attachment 634520


Insas copies alot of stuff from G3,FNFAL & AK.

That is an indian SLR:

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## JohnWick

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Insas copies alot of stuff from G3,FNFAL & AK.
> 
> That is an indian SLR:
> 
> View attachment 634521
> View attachment 634522


Nah not G3 and AK only FAL/SLR/G1 the reloading mechanism of FAL is faster and more efficient than G3....Only need to push a button just like that of M16 and M4.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

JohnWick said:


> Nah not G3 and AK only FAL/SLR/G1 the reloading mechanism of FAL is faster and more efficient than G3....Only need to push a button just like that of M16 and M4.


Look at the charging handle design and position.

As I said, it combines alot of elements from AK,FN FAL & G3.

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## JohnWick

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Look at the charging handle design and position.
> 
> As I said, it combines alot of elements from AK,FN FAL & G3.


Did you see the video and saw him reloading?

What about the new camo of SSG?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

JohnWick said:


> Did you see the video and saw him reloading?


Sir, we are talking about the rifle as a whole not just the feeding mechanism.



JohnWick said:


> Did you see the video and saw him reloading?
> 
> What about the new camo of SSG?


No idea bro.

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## JohnWick

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sir, we are talking about the rifle as a whole not just the feeding mechanism.
> 
> 
> No idea bro.


The only thing I was wanting to say that reloading by pushing a button is easier/faster and convenient than slaping and charging mechanism of G3.Few seconds r a matter of life and death in the battlefield.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

JohnWick said:


> The only thing I was wanting to say that reloading by pushing a button is easier/faster and convenient than sleeping and charging mechanism of G3.Few seconds r a matter of life and death in the battlefield.








Lol



JohnWick said:


> The only thing I was wanting to say that reloading by pushing a button is easier/faster and convenient than slaping and charging mechanism of G3.Few seconds r a matter of life and death in the battlefield.


FN FAL is helluva rifle, I love what the brazilians did with it.. the imbel is what its called.. kinda similiar to what we did we G3S & M variants..

Anyways...

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## Metal 0-1

JohnWick said:


> He was right....
> INSAS
> View attachment 634519
> 
> FAL
> View attachment 634520



That's a SLR/FAL end of the story..



JohnWick said:


> The only thing I was wanting to say that reloading by pushing a button is easier/faster and convenient than slaping and charging mechanism of G3.Few seconds r a matter of life and death in the battlefield.



Train your men better..





@DESERT FIGHTER do you have idea on brand of this combat shirt....



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 634530
> 
> 
> Lol
> 
> 
> FN FAL is helluva rifle, I love what the brazilians did with it.. the imbel is what its called.. kinda similiar to what we did we G3S & M variants..
> 
> Anyways...

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Metal 0-1 said:


> That's a SLR/FAL end of the story..
> 
> 
> 
> Train your men better..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER do you have idea on brand of this combat shirt....


The ones our boys are wearing? POF bro.

A paded combat uniform has also been spotted with LCB.


----------



## Metal 0-1

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The ones our boys are wearing?


Yup....
I mean the photo you shared..... Its looking bit off.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Metal 0-1 said:


> Yup....


Answered bove.


----------



## Metal 0-1

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Answered bove.



where??
This photo you shared is looking bit off.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Metal 0-1 said:


> where??
> This photo you shared is looking bit off.


You mean these?

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## Metal 0-1

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> You mean these?
> View attachment 634645
> View attachment 634646
> View attachment 634647
> View attachment 634648
> View attachment 634649
> View attachment 634650



Yeah I mean these. I think these are locally made......







I came across a guy on the internet who said I know this person in this picture. He is SSG. I told him he is wearing expensive equipment don't think he is SSG...


----------



## Readerdefence

Metal 0-1 said:


> Yeah I mean these. I think these are locally made......
> 
> View attachment 634652
> 
> 
> I came across a guy on the internet who said I know this person in this picture. He is SSG. I told him he is wearing expensive equipment don't think he is SSG...


Hi what do you mean by don’t think he is SSG can’t they buy these expensive gadgets buy the way any idea how expensive he is wearing 
Thank you



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> You mean these?
> View attachment 634645
> View attachment 634646
> View attachment 634647
> View attachment 634648
> View attachment 634649
> View attachment 634650


Hi in the second picture whom they training with kopassus or Paskal 
Any info if possible 
Thank you


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Readerdefence said:


> Hi what do you mean by don’t think he is SSG can’t they buy these expensive gadgets buy the way any idea how expensive he is wearing
> Thank you
> 
> 
> Hi in the second picture whom they training with kopassus or Paskal
> Any info if possible
> Thank you


Indonesian Navys KOPASKA.

@Indos

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## Metal 0-1

Readerdefence said:


> Hi what do you mean by don’t think he is SSG can’t they buy these expensive gadgets buy the way any idea how expensive he is wearing
> Thank you



Yes they can... The combat shirt he is wearing is looking a bit off. Made by a foreign brand. Just confirming if he is SSG or not...


----------



## Amaa'n

Metal 0-1 said:


> Yes they can... The combat shirt he is wearing is looking a bit off. Made by a foreign brand. Just confirming if he is SSG or not...


may be bought off the market, one of those from Karkhano...definitely different brand / design then the ones in use these days

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## PanzerKiel

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> may be bought off the market, one of those from Karkhano...definitely different brand / design then the ones in use these days



SSG units' outlets are full of them.

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## Amaa'n

PanzerKiel said:


> SSG units' outlets are full of them.


Crossfire making these? it's been a while since i went to one of those outlets...darn expensive but good stuff

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## PanzerKiel

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> Crossfire making these? it's been a while since i went to one of those outlets...darn expensive but good stuff



Yeah, bought couple of those last year once I visited them.... Expensive they are.... I like crossfire though... Their stuff is also available at PMA as well... Excellent stuff.



PanzerKiel said:


> Yeah, bought couple of those last year once I visited them.... Expensive they are.... I like crossfire though... Their stuff is also available at PMA as well... Excellent stuff.



@Foxtrot Alpha somehow I run out of money pretty fast while buying their stuff... Pockets get empty but not the thirst in my eyes

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## Amaa'n

PanzerKiel said:


> Yeah, bought couple of those last year once I visited them.... Expensive they are.... I like crossfire though... Their stuff is also available at PMA as well... Excellent stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> @Foxtrot Alpha somehow I run out of money pretty fast while buying their stuff... Pockets get empty but not the thirst in my eyes


there rucksack costs 11k at their outlet, 1200 for FDT Alpha style gloves ..what more to add

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## PanzerKiel

alas, some have already left us....






Two shaheeds.....sir Salman Lodhi and sir Bilal Zafar....






The old ones, the dangerous ones..... full of skill and war-craft.....(no negatives for the present generation though, they are fighting an entirely different war.....but both generations were / are masters of their times.....)

























With SAS...













Officers of OACC-5















Col Qasim Rizvi, expert of Ops behind enemy lines.....as early as 1978 (yes, 1978, not 79), he was operating north of Amu River (do please google it see its alignment) in USSR along with SSG dets....just one of those many, unsung heroes whom we owe too much, but alas, we know very little......no dearth of heroes in Allah's Pakistan.

Col Haroon and Capt Salman (shaheeds), same mission, same destination!












Brig Yasub Dogar (SSG), having a cup of qahwa with Gardez bombardment going on in the background (imagine that).....






Brig Yasub Dogar (SSG) and Lt Gen(later) Afzal Jangua, SJ (SSG)....two of the SSG greats of Afghan War....in Afghanistan.





Col Suleman (The Magnificient), recently passed away.





Col Suleman (The Magnificient), SSG

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## PanzerKiel

Two great buddies.....Col Suleman (The Magnificient), SSG and Gen Musharraf





Col Suleman, SSG





Col Suleman (The Magnificient), SSG ( as a Capt, handsome looks)

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> Yeah, bought couple of those last year once I visited them.... Expensive they are.... I like crossfire though... Their stuff is also available at PMA as well... Excellent stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> @Foxtrot Alpha somehow I run out of money pretty fast while buying their stuff... Pockets get empty but not the thirst in my eyes



Can civilians buy stuff from these stores??


----------



## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Can civilians buy stuff from these stores??



Sure, provided you can go in, i mean they dont let everyone to come inside Tarbela-Ghazi...


----------



## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> Sure, provided you can go in, i mean they dont let everyone to come inside Tarbela-Ghazi...



I'll try my best



PanzerKiel said:


> Sure, provided you can go in, i mean they dont let everyone to come inside Tarbela-Ghazi...



Can you provide me proper adress

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## Irfan Baloch

Metal 0-1 said:


> Yeah I mean these. I think these are locally made......
> 
> View attachment 634652
> 
> 
> I came across a guy on the internet who said I know this person in this picture. He is SSG. I told him he is wearing expensive equipment don't think he is SSG...


why he needs operation lit in front of a computer? 
is there a risk of a sharpnel flying out of a monitor grom modern warfare game?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Irfan Baloch said:


> why he needs operation lit in front of a computer?
> is there a risk of a sharpnel flying out of a monitor grom modern warfare game?


Limbar one meme material though!

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## Indos

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Indonesian Navys KOPASKA.
> 
> @Indos



Yup, look like Kopaska with their blue cloth. Kopassus also has exercise with Pakistani Special Force.

Bonus. Indonesian Special Force Video Compilation






Kopassus in Pakistan. Elang Strike 2019

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## Metal 0-1

Irfan Baloch said:


> why he needs operation lit in front of a computer?
> is there a risk of a sharpnel flying out of a monitor grom modern warfare game?



Taking COD to next level...

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## R Wing

Irfan Baloch said:


> why he needs operation lit in front of a computer?
> is there a risk of a sharpnel flying out of a monitor grom modern warfare game?



1.) just being funny / posing
2.) it's an FOB w/ on-going ops

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## PakShaheen79

It is nothing new. We have all seen it multiple times but re posting it to relive the moment. Just read those captions
while hearing Janbaz Janbaz Mann Janbazam ... roars of lions, literally. 

Location: HQ (Special Service Group, Cherat NWFP)
Distance: 8.2 Km (and counting...)
Time: 20 Minutes to Ifftar
Mission: Keep going






Absolutely goosebumps material .... haven't seen anything more powerful as a teaser than this. @Trailer23

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## PanzerKiel



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## HRK

PanzerKiel said:


>


little bit of background ??

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## gangsta_rap

HRK said:


> little bit of background ??


i believe he was one of the elite troops who took part in clearing APS in 2014

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## Mr.Cringeworth

This is a screen grab from an ispr song i am curious what kind of muzzle device is this on the m4, would really appreciate if someone can answer.

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## PanzerKiel

HRK said:


> little bit of background ??



@Angry Easterling 
Oh sorry...
He's the famous Capt Iqbal, HJ, attained shahadat in Siachen, September 87, during an attack on Indian posts.



Mr.Cringeworth said:


> This is a screen grab from an ispr song i am curious what kind of muzzle device is this on the m4, would really appreciate if someone can answer.
> View attachment 638867



That is a recoil booster we use in training.... During training, blank rounds are used to make firing noise, however, to make it more realistic for the firer, this device is added so that once you fire a blank round, you feel a bit of recoil as well.

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## PanzerKiel



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Indos said:


> Yup, look like Kopaska with their blue cloth. Kopassus also has exercise with Pakistani Special Force.
> 
> Bonus. Indonesian Special Force Video Compilation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kopassus in Pakistan. Elang Strike 2019


NCTC (National Counter Terrorism Training Center), near Pabi.

The Pakistani in the pics are regulars..

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


>



The old school Bush Stroke camo..

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## PanzerKiel

PanzerKiel said:


>












Ameer Faisal Alvi, Group Command and later GOC SSG (here as Commander of 19 IABG, late 90s)

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## Bilal.

Mr.Cringeworth said:


> This is a screen grab from an ispr song i am curious what kind of muzzle device is this on the m4, would really appreciate if someone can answer.
> View attachment 638867



BFA - Blank firing adapter.

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## PanzerKiel

Brig Saleem Zia, Group Commander SSG in mid 70s.






SSG during APS Op

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## Indos

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> NCTC (National Counter Terrorism Training Center), near Pabi.
> 
> The Pakistani in the pics are regulars..



How do you know they are regulars ? I dont think we will send special force if Pakistani use regular troops on the training. In wikipedia it said that Kopassus has joint exercise with Pakistan Special Service Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Service_Group

I dont think we can determine special force from their uniform as Kopassus also dont use their uniform on that training but just use basic Army uniform. But unlike Pakistani, we bring our beret that identify it is Kopassus.

Any way Kopassus is not a small special force, it has around 6000 troops. 

This is Kopassus uniform






They use basic Army uniform during exercise in Pakistan

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## PanzerKiel

Indos said:


> How do you know they are regulars ? I dont think we will send special force if Pakistani use regular troops on the training. In wikipedia it said that Kopassus has joint exercise with Pakistan Special Service Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Service_Group
> 
> I dont think we can determine special force from their uniform as Kopassus also dont use their uniform on that training but just use basic Army uniform. But unlike Pakistani, we bring our beret that identify it is Kopassus.
> 
> Any way Kopassus is not a small special force, it has around 6000 troops.
> 
> This is Kopassus uniform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They use basic Army uniform during exercise in Pakistan



The last pic is with PA NCTC instructors.

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## HRK

Indos said:


> I dont think we can determine special force from their uniform as Kopassus also dont use their uniform on that training but just use basic Army uniform. But unlike Pakistani, we bring our beret that identify it is Kopassus.


In _National Counter Terrorism Center (NCTC)_ we train regular troops for counter Terrorism Operations or in other words after attending NCTC our relugular do not remain Regular Regulars but 'Regulars with Counter Terrorism Specialities' .... so this might be the reason for Indonesian Special forces to have joint exercises with Counter Terrorism Specialists in NCTC of Pakistan 

Professional members of the forum might explain it better with details.

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## PanzerKiel

Indos said:


> How do you know they are regulars ? I dont think we will send special force if Pakistani use regular troops on the training. In wikipedia it said that Kopassus has joint exercise with Pakistan Special Service Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Service_Group
> 
> I dont think we can determine special force from their uniform as Kopassus also dont use their uniform on that training but just use basic Army uniform. But unlike Pakistani, we bring our beret that identify it is Kopassus.
> 
> Any way Kopassus is not a small special force, it has around 6000 troops.
> 
> This is Kopassus uniform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They use basic Army uniform during exercise in Pakistan



Troops from PA 34 SSD, LCB units participate .



Indos said:


> How do you know they are regulars ? I dont think we will send special force if Pakistani use regular troops on the training. In wikipedia it said that Kopassus has joint exercise with Pakistan Special Service Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Service_Group
> 
> I dont think we can determine special force from their uniform as Kopassus also dont use their uniform on that training but just use basic Army uniform. But unlike Pakistani, we bring our beret that identify it is Kopassus.
> 
> Any way Kopassus is not a small special force, it has around 6000 troops.
> 
> This is Kopassus uniform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They use basic Army uniform during exercise in Pakistan



In the last pic , GOC 34 SSD and one of his brigade Commanders are there.

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## HRK

@Indos follow the two mention threads on Light Commando Battalion (LCB) to have a clear understanding about their role and training regime
Thread 1, Thread 2

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## Indos

HRK said:


> @Indos follow the two mention threads on Light Commando Battalion (LCB) to have a clear understanding about their role and training regime
> Thread 1, Thread 2



OK. Thanks.

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## blain2

PanzerKiel said:


>


Both Col SG Mehdi and Brig Saleem Zia were non-SSG qualified officer to be promoted to command the SSG. While no bar on their persons, this created significant challenges for those serving under them. After the initial years, this practice was changed in the 70s and now no officer in command of any SSG unit, let alone the divisional command, can be a non-SSG officer.

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## PanzerKiel

On Gen Musa's visit to SSG, late 50s. Gp photo along with SSG officers.

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## blain2

PanzerKiel said:


> Ameer Faisal Alvi, Group Command and later GOC SSG (here as Commander of 19 IABG, late 90s)



For those who may not be aware, Capt Muhammad Iqbal was awarded the Hilal-e-Jurrat for his conspicuous bravery in the face of overwhelming odds. This is the highest gallantry award ever to be awarded to an SSG officer or jawan despite the fact that the SSG is the most awarded outfit in the Pakistan armed forces.

The second point of note is that Hilal-e-Jurrat is usually reserved for living (as compared to NH which is posthumously awarded) or general staff officers in recognition of their conduct during military operations. Capt Iqbal's case was as such that his actions were considered worthy of a much higher recognition than the Sitara-e-Jurrat which is typically what is awarded to field ranking officers yet he was deemed to not fit the criteria for NH. These were the 80s and we were far removed from the memories of large scale wars and in my humble opinion, had Capt. Iqbal operated in the way he did on Siachen during the Kargil conflict as an example, without a doubt he would have been awarded the NH.

Brave man, who was well liked by the men and peers alike. God bless!

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## Cuirassier

blain2 said:


> For those who may not be aware, Capt Muhammad Iqbal was awarded the Hilal-e-Jurrat for his conspicuous bravery in the face of overwhelming odds. This is the highest gallantry award ever to be awarded to an SSG officer or jawan despite the fact that the SSG is the most awarded outfit in the Pakistan armed forces.
> 
> The second point of note is that Hilal-e-Jurrat is usually reserved for living (as compared to NH which is posthumously awarded) or general staff officers in recognition of their conduct during military operations. Capt Iqbal's case was as such that his actions were considered worthy of a much higher recognition than the Sitara-e-Jurrat which is typically what is awarded to field ranking officers yet he was deemed to not fit the criteria for NH. These were the 80s and we were far removed from the memories of large scale wars and in my humble opinion, had Capt. Iqbal operated in the way he did on Siachen during the Kargil conflict as an example, without a doubt he would have been awarded the NH.
> 
> Brave man, who was well liked by the men and peers alike. God bless!


Iqbal's HJ was an anomaly thanks to our weird award system. In '65, SJs were reserved till LTC rank for actions not fitting critieria for NH (as per citation that is) - hence redtapes were the ones who got HJs. TJs were given to NCOs & ORs with JCOs getting SJs if criteria met. This changed in '71 when HJs were awarded to LTC rank too. 

Even in Op Koh-e-Paima - none got an HJ despite exhibiting tremendous gallantry. If not NH then SJ, if not that then TJ & so on.

In PA, HJ is unfortunately usually reserved for officers with stars - in the case of IA I appreciate their generosity; even ORs can get the MVC, their second-highest gallantry award. The Indian 3/4 Gorkha won 3 x MVCs in this particular action - two of them going to NCO/ORs AFAIK.

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## Metal 0-1

Ahh, Pakistani SOF Command. How long do you gonna stick with old school gear, weapon manipulation/handling and operational skills??

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## PanzerKiel

Capt Sikander, 2 Cdo





Capt Sikander, 2 Cdo, on the right while Col Suleman, CO 2 Cdo in the centre. Both attained shahadat in the famous ambush on Ghazi company of 2 Cdo.

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## PanzerKiel

blain2 said:


> Both Col SG Mehdi and Brig Saleem Zia were non-SSG qualified officer to be promoted to command the SSG. While no bar on their persons, this created significant challenges for those serving under them. After the initial years, this practice was changed in the 70s and now no officer in command of any SSG unit, let alone the divisional command, can be a non-SSG officer.



Do please clarify the term.... NON SSG QUAL OFFICER..... For the benefit of all who are here.


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## PanzerKiel

Old but good

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## PanzerKiel



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## Amaa'n

Metal 0-1 said:


> Ahh, Pakistani SOF Command. How long do you gonna stick with old school gear, weapon manipulation/handling and operational skills??


Working lightweight is the best way to go, having worked in private security i can tell you that it's not an easy task to move around in your Kevlar day in day out, especially when it gets humid or extremely hot, you just want to remove all that gear and die in peace. If i could afford i would have bought myself a nice yet expensive plate career / chest rig to improve my maneuverability but that means you comprise on your life too. The kind of work i was doing required me to wear an overt vest style Kevlar & i would get extremely uncomfortable in those, even leaning down or kneeing would be troublesome in those vests. So i can understand why people who have no fear of death would prefer to fight free style

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## Metal 0-1

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> Working lightweight is the best way to go, having worked in private security i can tell you that it's not an easy task to move around in your Kevlar day in day out, especially when it gets humid or extremely hot, you just want to remove all that gear and die in peace. If i could afford i would have bought myself a nice yet expensive plate career / chest rig to improve my maneuverability but that means you comprise on your life too. The kind of work i was doing required me to wear an overt vest style Kevlar & i would get extremely uncomfortable in those, even leaning down or kneeing would be troublesome in those vests. So i can understand why people who have no fear of death would prefer to fight free style



What you are saying is only a thing when you are long range combat patrol. (on foot)
What if you are in urban environment on a raid wearing a headband and a load-carrying vest. You still want choose your way.
Tell this to modern special forces around the globe..

That's a time consuming discussion. Will write about this someday.

Now can we talk about old school weapon manipulation/handling and operational skill sets.

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## PanzerKiel



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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


>



Last two pictures have been posted before...

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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Last two pictures have been posted before...



Sorry, my bad.

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> Sorry, my bad.


Happens

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## Sage

PanzerKiel said:


> Capt Sikander, 2 Cdo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Capt Sikander, 2 Cdo, on the right while Col Suleman, CO 2 Cdo in the centre. Both attained shahadat in the famous ambush on Ghazi company of 2 Cdo.


Which ambush ?

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## Cuirassier

Sage said:


> Which ambush ?


By defected troops of East Pakistan Rifles and East Bengal Regiment at the outskirts of Chittagong. CO of 2 Commando and an attached Signals officer were also killed.

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## Sage

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 635344
> 
> alas, some have already left us....
> 
> View attachment 635345
> 
> 
> Two shaheeds.....sir Salman Lodhi and sir Bilal Zafar....
> 
> View attachment 635346
> 
> 
> The old ones, the dangerous ones..... full of skill and war-craft.....(no negatives for the present generation though, they are fighting an entirely different war.....but both generations were / are masters of their times.....)
> 
> View attachment 635348
> 
> 
> View attachment 635349
> 
> 
> View attachment 635351
> 
> 
> View attachment 635352
> 
> 
> View attachment 635353
> 
> With SAS...
> 
> View attachment 635354
> 
> 
> View attachment 635355
> View attachment 635356
> 
> Officers of OACC-5
> 
> View attachment 635357
> 
> 
> View attachment 635361
> 
> 
> View attachment 635366
> 
> Col Qasim Rizvi, expert of Ops behind enemy lines.....as early as 1978 (yes, 1978, not 79), he was operating north of Amu River (do please google it see its alignment) in USSR along with SSG dets....just one of those many, unsung heroes whom we owe too much, but alas, we know very little......no dearth of heroes in Allah's Pakistan.
> 
> Col Haroon and Capt Salman (shaheeds), same mission, same destination!
> View attachment 635371
> View attachment 635372
> 
> 
> View attachment 635373
> 
> Brig Yasub Dogar (SSG), having a cup of qahwa with Gardez bombardment going on in the background (imagine that).....
> 
> View attachment 635374
> 
> 
> Brig Yasub Dogar (SSG) and Lt Gen(later) Afzal Jangua, SJ (SSG)....two of the SSG greats of Afghan War....in Afghanistan.
> 
> View attachment 635376
> 
> Col Suleman (The Magnificient), recently passed away.
> 
> View attachment 635377
> 
> Col Suleman (The Magnificient), SSG


I personally had long chats and conversations with Col Suleman just a year before his sad demise...At 70, he was blessed with a baby...to whom he would call 'monster'...he would be like, ' wait, let me see the little monster, he needs my attention'. He told me much stuff about Gen Mush ...I wanted to write an authentic book on the SSG those days ...He even offered me his help to set up a meeting with General Bhutta....great man ....May his sould rest in peace....



Cuirassier said:


> By defected troops of East Pakistan Rifles and East Bengal Regiment at the outskirts of Chittagong. CO of 2 Commando and an attached Signals officer were also killed.


Oh...so it was all about the uneasy history ...

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## Kompromat

PanzerKiel said:


>




I need full HD image.

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## Signalian

PanzerKiel said:


> Ameer Faisal Alvi, Group Command and later GOC SSG (here as Commander of 19 IABG, late 90s)



A friend whose father is a high ranking official, got married to one of Gen Alvi's daughters after his death. Both their fathers were close friends in military careers.

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## pzfz

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> Working lightweight is the best way to go, having worked in private security i can tell you that it's not an easy task to move around in your Kevlar day in day out, especially when it gets humid or extremely hot, you just want to remove all that gear and die in peace. If i could afford i would have bought myself a nice yet expensive plate career / chest rig to improve my maneuverability but that means you comprise on your life too. The kind of work i was doing required me to wear an overt vest style Kevlar & i would get extremely uncomfortable in those, even leaning down or kneeing would be troublesome in those vests. So i can understand why people who have no fear of death would prefer to fight free style



Let's just ignore the weapons handling and skills (where Pak SFs also lack) and stay on gear: Old school gear is heavy and cumbersome. New school gear is lighter and enhances ur fighting capability. Their helmets are heavier. As are the vests, the bots, the comms gear etc. The pics u see, even the best of times, are SSG carrying tacvests/backpacks ON TOP of an old school bp vest or plate carrier; u wanna tell me they don't want to go lighter and are worried about distance? These days lighter ppe combine all that into a lighter platform. It's available, use it!

Pak isn't martian terrain not found anywhere else on earth. SFs operating in the region AND in hotter climates have availed themselves of tacop multipliers (hell ANA next door even PLA are fielding newer n better equipment), no reason for myopic Pak generals to not start doing the same. Not doing so is blatant disregard for the lives of our jawans and our security interests.

Let's not glorify dying in this day n age. SFs are there to be the sharp edge of the sword and execute/kill their objectives; not to satisfy lust for bravery p0£n.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Not sure if posted before

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## PanzerKiel

Horus said:


> I need full HD image.



Lets see whether i can tell a SSG chap to pose for a pic in the same pose, same weapon, cigarette ofcourse....

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## Inception-06

Signalian said:


> A friend whose father is a high ranking official, got married to one of Gen Alvi's daughters after his death. Both their fathers were close friends in military careers.



Ho wand why General Alvi was killed?

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## PanzerKiel

Inception-06 said:


> Ho wand why General Alvi was killed?



You may find it in Saleem Shahzad book..... INSIDE AL QAEDA....

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## Inception-06

PanzerKiel said:


> You may find it in Saleem Shahzad book..... INSIDE AL QAEDA....



living in Berlin, I don't have access to Pakistani books

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## PanzerKiel

Inception-06 said:


> living in Berlin, I don't have access to Pakistani books



Where there's a WILL, there's a WAY.

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## PanzerKiel

Inception-06 said:


> living in Berlin, I don't have access to Pakistani books


After hectic efforts of about 3 minutes, i got the book in pdf.

@Inception-06 






embraced shahadat during Quaid OP op.

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## Amaa'n

PanzerKiel said:


> After hectic efforts of about 3 minutes, i got the book in pdf.
> 
> @Inception-06


Were you able to digest this book ?? 
I loved this actually..still sits on my shelf, once i handed my copy to a friend, who was left in shock. I had turned the corners on all lot of pages to bookmark & lines, paragraphs highlighted

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## PanzerKiel

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> Were you able to digest this book ??



Yes, my appetite is good for it, plus digestion system is such that is accepts everything except poison...

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## Amaa'n

PanzerKiel said:


> Yes, my appetite is good for it, plus digestion system is such that is accepts everything except poison...


Brigadier Trimzi's Profiles of Intelligence 

Omar Shahid Hamid's books - all three

Air Marshal Arshad Malik - We've Learnt nothing from history

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## PanzerKiel

Capt Javed shaheed, 1965.

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## Amaa'n

pzfz said:


> Let's just ignore the weapons handling and skills (where Pak SFs also lack) and stay on gear: Old school gear is heavy and cumbersome. New school gear is lighter and enhances ur fighting capability. Their helmets are heavier. As are the vests, the bots, the comms gear etc. The pics u see, even the best of times, are SSG carrying tacvests/backpacks ON TOP of an old school bp vest or plate carrier; u wanna tell me they don't want to go lighter and are worried about distance? These days lighter ppe combine all that into a lighter platform. It's available, use it!
> 
> Pak isn't martian terrain not found anywhere else on earth. SFs operating in the region AND in hotter climates have availed themselves of tacop multipliers (hell ANA next door even PLA are fielding newer n better equipment), no reason for myopic Pak generals to not start doing the same. Not doing so is blatant disregard for the lives of our jawans and our security interests.
> 
> Let's not glorify dying in this day n age. SFs are there to be the sharp edge of the sword and execute/kill their objectives; not to satisfy lust for bravery p0£n.


There is a reason i didn't reply to @Metal 0-1 also. You can't have a single / standard gear for all type of assignments. For a Direct Action mission or Assault, you 'may' wish to add in extra plates to your Plate Carrier to cover shoulders, torso, thighs because requirement for such a mission are different. You may not be standing or patroling while holding your Gun - Higher up ready for several hours. So no fatigue, Breach!!!, Shoot!!!, Exfil!!! in matter of 1-2 hours you are done.

But once you are heliborne on a mountain top for an assault the requirements will totally get different, the gear is different, even the weapons can get different.....

I would not bother with this topic with you guys till you have experienced all this yourself because only then you are in position to form an opinion.

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## Amaa'n

@Metal 0-1 my apologies bro if i came out rude, i did not want it come out this way. I have edit out a word from my post. Take my post on the lighter note please.
IDK what wrong but you are the second person whom i have offended, morning time I came out rude with any other younger brother here on forum
(p.s: i can view the deleted posts  )

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## Sage

Yeah bruh....SSG guy now in COD-Season 4





By the way ...this guy is real ...and he is in SSG...the last time we saw him, was at a joint exercise between Pak and China....

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## PanzerKiel

Sage said:


> Yeah bruh....SSG guy now in COD-Season 4
> View attachment 641430
> 
> 
> By the way ...this guy is real ...and he is in SSG...the last time we saw him, was at a joint exercise between Pak and China....



Kayani...

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## Metal 0-1

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> @Metal 0-1 my apologies bro if i came out rude, i did not want it come out this way. I have edit out a word from my post. Take my post on the lighter note please.
> IDK what wrong but you are the second person whom i have offended, morning time I came out rude with any other younger brother here on forum
> (p.s: i can view the deleted posts  )



What, No its alright. Staffs have this aggressive behavior. I'll love to get on my hands and give 20



PanzerKiel said:


> With SAS...



Sir can you tell me the year and some context...?

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


>


Just noticed these guys are carrying FN-Five Seven rather than Glocks pretty nice and expensive to both own and shoot....

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## Sunny4pak

*High-Quality Image of SSG's.*

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## PanzerKiel

Sunny4pak said:


> View attachment 642182
> 
> 
> *High-Quality Image of SSG's.*



2017 JS Parade.....

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## blain2

Cuirassier said:


> By defected troops of East Pakistan Rifles and East Bengal Regiment at the outskirts of Chittagong. CO of 2 Commando and an attached Signals officer were also killed.


This was the single biggest loss suffered by the SSG, ever! 16 troops (including 2 officers) were martyred during the ambush.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Not sure if posted before
> 
> View attachment 641155


That is police.



PanzerKiel said:


> Old but good



That is Maj Gen Faisal Alvi in the picture when these operations started.

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## PanzerKiel

blain2 said:


> This was the single biggest loss suffered by the SSG, ever! 16 troops (including 2 officers) were martyred during the ambush.
> 
> 
> That is police.
> 
> 
> 
> That is Maj Gen Faisal Alvi in the picture when these operations started.



Exactly dear.


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## Cuirassier

blain2 said:


> This was the single biggest loss suffered by the SSG, ever! 16 troops (including 2 officers) were martyred during the ambush.
> 
> 
> That is police.
> 
> 
> 
> That is Maj Gen Faisal Alvi in the picture when these operations started.


Well some sources suggest 20+ deaths ,maybe all weren't SSG.

I reckon the highest losses were suffered during the Sept '87 Op Qiadat (18 incld 2 offrs)

Alvi was seriously good. Cavalry officer, topped his OACC etc. I'd imagine him reaching the top brass if history was different...

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## PanzerKiel

Cuirassier said:


> Well some sources suggest 20+ deaths ,maybe all weren't SSG.



That ambush was actually under the command of a JCO of EBR who had laid it for the PA's Chittagong Brigade which was supposed to use this route for a linkup. However, Ghazi company along with CO 2 Cdo landed in the ambush first. However they managed to recover all bodies from the ambush site once additional SSG troops arrived to clear it.
A word about Col Suleman (CO 2 Cdo), he had been with the SSG since its inception...extremely brave....i dont remember who...either Gen Mitha or Brig Z A Khan later mentioned that Col Suleman was standing erect in his jeep once he was ambushed and was one of the first casualties. His buddy was a Bengali SSG soldier who, despite being injured himself, managed to pull CO's body back....



Cuirassier said:


> I reckon the highest losses were suffered during the Sept '87 Op Qiadat (18 incld 2 offrs)



Apart from this specific op, SSG otherwise suffered alot more since they were the first responders once Indians took over Siachen.....SSG was inducted a bit in a hurried fashion, no acclimatization, quality of snow equipment wasnt good either.....and then SSG was almost always part of all major operations conducted in this area.

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## Cuirassier

PanzerKiel said:


> That ambush was actually under the command of a JCO of EBR who had laid it for the PA's Chittagong Brigade which was supposed to use this route for a linkup. However, Ghazi company along with CO 2 Cdo landed in the ambush first. However they managed to recover all bodies from the ambush site once additional SSG troops arrived to clear it.
> A word about Col Suleman (CO 2 Cdo), he had been with the SSG since its inception...extremely brave....i dont remember who...either Gen Mitha or Brig Z A Khan later mentioned that Col Suleman was standing erect in his jeep once he was ambushed and was one of the first casualties. His buddy was a Bengali SSG soldier who, despite being injured himself, managed to pull CO's body back....
> 
> 
> 
> Apart from this specific op, SSG otherwise suffered alot more since they were the first responders once Indians took over Siachen.....SSG was inducted a bit in a hurried fashion, no acclimatization, quality of snow equipment wasnt good either.....and then SSG was almost always part of all major operations conducted in this area.


Many SSG officers like Shaukat Hamdani and Khalid Khan died in mountain expeditions in the Ghance area before and after the seizure of the glacier & subsequent hostilities. I'd reckon a lot of the 70 odd SSG fatalities were due to non-combat causes. The costliest assault in '92 involved 1 AK - not SSG.

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## Ghost 125

PanzerKiel said:


> Brig Saleem Zia, Group Commander SSG in mid 70s.
> 
> View attachment 639232
> 
> 
> SSG during APS Op
> 
> View attachment 639233
> View attachment 639234
> View attachment 639235
> View attachment 639236


You sir, have brought the real stuff to this thread

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## Metal 0-1

Special Forces snipers setting up their gear....... AWMs, R-700(AICS) and SC-76 Thunderbolt

Some surveillance equipment like that camera on isomat....

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## AMG_12

Metal 0-1 said:


> Special Forces snipers setting up their gear....... AWMs, R-700(AICS) and SC-76 Thunderbolt
> 
> Some surveillance equipment like that camera on isomat....
> 
> 
> View attachment 642401


I posted this picture years ago. It was taken at Kotli during rifle trials.

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## Metal 0-1

AMG_12 said:


> I posted this picture years ago. It was taken at Kotli during rifle trials.



Gotcha,

So, SC-76 was selected right??

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## Cuirassier

Metal 0-1 said:


> Gotcha,
> 
> So, SC-76 was selected right??


Only seen it with Navy so far.


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## PanzerKiel

Op Janbaz





Op Janbaz





Op Janbaz






























Later, Brig Abdul Rehman Bilal.....Chumik fame.





Naik Yaqoob, who was dropped along with Lt Naveed on Pt 22158, Chumik Glacier.....later dramatized in Alpha Brava Charlie serial....

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## Amaa'n

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 642774
> 
> Op Janbaz
> 
> View attachment 642775
> 
> Op Janbaz
> 
> View attachment 642776
> 
> Op Janbaz
> 
> View attachment 642777
> 
> 
> View attachment 642778
> 
> 
> View attachment 642779
> 
> 
> View attachment 642786
> 
> 
> View attachment 642789
> 
> 
> View attachment 642795
> 
> Later, Brig Abdul Rehman Bilal.....Chumik fame.
> 
> View attachment 642797
> 
> Naik Yaqoob, who was dropped along with Lt Naveed on Pt 22158, Chumik Glacier.....later dramatized in Alpha Brava Charlie serial....


with reference to the Shield, i found something interesting recently, something our CT units could look into

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## PanzerKiel

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> with reference to the Shield, i found something interesting recently, something our CT units could look into
> View attachment 642812



Lets hope he doesnt get a spray below his waist.


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## Amaa'n

PanzerKiel said:


> Lets hope he doesnt get a spray below his waist.


sorry i forgot to add that, minus out the Tactics he has deployed, i wanted to point out the shield design and cut out....the breacher / point man could use a better view

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## PanzerKiel

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> sorry i forgot to add that, minus out the Tactics he has deployed, i wanted to point out the shield design and cut out....the breacher / point man could use a better view



waisay in my opinion, the one our ZATU are using is much safer, almost no exposure.

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## Amaa'n

PanzerKiel said:


> waisay in my opinion, the one our ZATU are using is much safer, almost no exposure.


i think gear and equipment requirements change with the operation...in some Ops, a wheeled Shield would be better pick but popping through peek holes something compact would be a better choice...i.e





Hayatabad operation, in which ssg made entry to the building from top through a narrow opening made its way down through stairs and all lot of opennings...such shield has a potential to be useful in such situations....

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## gangsta_rap

PanzerKiel said:


> Op Janbaz



boots on the mosque prayer floor without any regard at all regarding the sanctity of the ground that they stand on...


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## Amaa'n

Angry Easterling said:


> boots on the mosque prayer floor without any regard at all regarding the sanctity of the ground that they stand on...


US Spec Ops unit were embedded with them hence rendering them all as Yahoodi agents...this action is justified by the murtid fauj

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## PanzerKiel

Angry Easterling said:


> boots on the mosque prayer floor without any regard at all regarding the sanctity of the ground that they stand on...


... For a particular time, it ceased to be a mosque.

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## Metal 0-1

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> US Spec Ops unit were embedded with them



Really??


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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Really??

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## Amaa'n

Metal 0-1 said:


> Really??




I was being sarcastic yar...


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## Metal 0-1

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> I was being sarcastic yar...



I can't tell if person is sarcastic or not....


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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Really??



Deitel and Deitel


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## PDF

Angry Easterling said:


> boots on the mosque prayer floor without any regard at all regarding the sanctity of the ground that they stand on...


you do know one can pray with boots on, don't you? Boots shouldn't even be a problem unless filth is attached under them.

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## Cuirassier

Once again we argue on non-issues.

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## truthfollower

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> Yahoodi agents


welcome welcome


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## Metal 0-1

*Why Pakistan don't host International Special Forces competition if not possible, We can conduct a similar competition at Local(National) level where Tri-Services Spec Ops units (SSG, SSG-N, SSW), shock troops(LCBs, FC, FC-Special Operations) and various law-enforcement agencies (Elite Police Units) compete with each other.*

It helps various units to give their best and a good opportunity to learn from others experience.

2018 Warrior Challenge held by Latvian SOF.









*Latvian SOF warrior challenge being held last year..
Part 1*




*
Part 2




*

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## gangsta_rap

Metal 0-1 said:


> Why Pakistan don't host International Special Forces



Because if we do some random euro country that nobody has heard about would mop the floor with us

Ssg cant even compete with a 2nd rate force like polish grom

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## blain2

Angry Easterling said:


> Because if we do some random euro country that nobody has heard about would mop the floor with us
> 
> Ssg cant even compete with a 2nd rate force like polish grom



Itna inferiority complex? Why do we need to compete with Europeans? What we have is sufficient for the environment in which we operate. Special Forces aren't gladiators.

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## gangsta_rap

blain2 said:


> Itna inferiority complex? Why do we need to compete with Europeans? What we have is sufficient for the environment in which we operate. Special Forces aren't gladiators.


am i wrong?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Angry Easterling said:


> am i wrong?


So our troops can win international competitions like cambrian patrol, snipping competitions but our SF cant compete with 2nd rate euro sfs who have next to no operational experiences.

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## In arduis fidelis

Angry Easterling said:


> Because if we do some random euro country that nobody has heard about would mop the floor with us
> 
> Ssg cant even compete with a 2nd rate force like polish grom


Dude a little inferiority complex is understandable since live abroad and are clearly influenced heavily by it but degrading SSG aint gonna cut it. These guys are professionals at what they do. They can take any of those forces any day of the week and give them run for their money if you go by just the soldier to soldier comparison. They may excel in tech but training and hardcore combat wise SSG is second to none

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## Ahmet Pasha

A very good idea. We have PACES and we go to King Abdullah exercises. Why not start our own as well.


Metal 0-1 said:


> Why Pakistan don't host International Special Forces competition if not at a Local level where Tri-Services Spec Ops units, shock troops and various law-enforcement agencies compete with each other.
> 
> It helps various units to give their best and a good opportunity to learn from others experience.
> 
> 2018 Warrior Challenge held by Latvian SOF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Latvian SOF warrior challenge being held last year..
> Part 1*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Part 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Top tier units in every country have same manoeuvres, moves, training etc. Only tech and budget is different.


In arduis fidelis said:


> Dude a little inferiority complex is understandable since live abroad and are clearly influenced heavily by it but degrading SSG aint gonna cut it. These guys are professionals at what they do. They can take any of those forces any day of the week and give them run for their money if you go by just the soldier to soldier comparison. They may excel in tech but training and hardcore combat wise SSG is second to none

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## gangsta_rap

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So our troops can win international competitions like cambrian patrol, snipping competitions but our SF cant compete with 2nd rate euro sfs who have next to no operational experiences.


in the cambrian patrol exercises how come ssg was sent to compete with regulars from other countries


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## In arduis fidelis

Angry Easterling said:


> in the cambrian patrol exercises how come ssg was sent to compete with regulars from other countries


Those were regular army troops. Punjab regt and NLI not SSG

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## Ahmet Pasha

It'd be interesting to see how SSG does in King Abdullah exercises. If anyone can post results.


Angry Easterling said:


> Because if we do some random euro country that nobody has heard about would mop the floor with us
> 
> Ssg cant even compete with a 2nd rate force like polish grom


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## bananarepublic

In arduis fidelis said:


> View attachment 643117
> View attachment 643118
> 
> Those were regular army troops. Punjab regt and NLI not SSG



Even LCB are much better in terms of experience and training than some European militaries .
Sometimes people look at those special forces with their tacticool gear and hold them up to immeasurable standards. Egypt is a good example on what to not do when creating a Commando force, their reputation is notorious for their incompetence.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Angry Easterling said:


> in the cambrian patrol exercises how come ssg was sent to compete with regulars from other countries


Inferiority complex combined with ignorance is a fatal combo.

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## bananarepublic

Ahmet Pasha said:


> It'd be interesting to see how SSG does in King Abdullah exercises. If anyone can post results.



I believe we send LCB rather than SSG for the Annual Warrior competition held at Jordan .

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## DESERT FIGHTER

In arduis fidelis said:


> View attachment 643117
> View attachment 643118
> 
> Those were regular army troops. Punjab regt and NLI not SSG


Have won that like 4,5 times.. always regulars.

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## Metal 0-1

Angry Easterling said:


> Because if we do some random euro country that nobody has heard about would mop the floor with us
> 
> Ssg cant even compete with a 2nd rate force like polish grom



Yes they can't, but it's not about winning and losing its about learning from your opponent. Maybe SSG can pickup a thing or two from other participants and vice versa.

You don't have to have a very big competition. Local law enforcement and FC LCBs can participate and compete with Tri-Services SOF



bananarepublic said:


> Even LCB are much better in terms of experience and training than some European militaries .
> Sometimes people look at those special forces with their tacticool gear and hold them up to immeasurable standards. Egypt is a good example on what to not do when creating a Commando force, their reputation is notorious for their incompetence.





bananarepublic said:


> I believe we send LCB rather than SSG for the Annual Warrior competition held at Jordan .



LCB guys arses were handed to them in King Abdullah Warrior Competition

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## Metal 0-1

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So our troops can win international competitions like cambrian patrol, snipping competitions but our SF cant compete with 2nd rate euro sfs who have next to no operational experiences.





In arduis fidelis said:


> Dude a little inferiority complex is understandable since live abroad and are clearly influenced heavily by it but degrading SSG aint gonna cut it. These guys are professionals at what they do. They can take any of those forces any day of the week and give them run for their money if you go by just the soldier to soldier comparison. They may excel in tech but training and hardcore combat wise SSG is second to none



They only got Gold medal didn't outclassed in entire Cambrian Patrol competition. That's Great, they won competition like Beijing Sniping competition even they lost in Kazakhstan Golden Owl competition.

What about more advanced competitions. Include CQB, CASEVAC, Long Range Shooting, Obstacle courses, Different scenarios, shooting in dark under NVGs.

Brother its not about inferiority complex, its reality. Our troops especially tough but toughness is not always in need. You need modern operational skill set. SSG still use old skill sets. Just compare any video...We all know our tough LCB lost badly at King Abdullah Warrior Competetion...

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## Cuirassier

SOF Competitions are good but not yardsticks for combat potential as such.

Indian NSG (their Zarrar ATU eqv) was also sent to the King Abdullah event. Their not winning doesn't mean they're sh*te.

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## blain2

Angry Easterling said:


> in the cambrian patrol exercises how come ssg was sent to compete with regulars from other countries


Cambrian Patrol has always been attended by detachments from our regular Infantry battalions and they do quite well.


Metal 0-1 said:


> They only got Gold medal didn't outclassed in entire Cambrian Patrol competition. That's Great, they won competition like Beijing Sniping competition even they lost in Kazakhstan Golden Owl competition.
> 
> What about more advanced competitions. Include CQB, CASEVAC, Long Range Shooting, Obstacle courses, Different scenarios, shooting in dark under NVGs.
> 
> Brother its not about inferiority complex, its reality. Our troops especially tough but toughness is not always in need. You need modern operational skill set. SSG still use old skill sets. Just compare any video...We all know our tough LCB lost badly at King Abdullah Warrior Competetion...


The idea of sending the LCB is to pitch garden infantry units against possibly SF teams from other nations.
There is no guarantee that Pakistani teams will come out on top however as long as they are among the top teams is what matters.

For the "more advanced competitions" you mention, I recall a few years ago, SSG participated in one of the most grueling SF competition hosted in South Africa called Ex. Airborne Africa (10 events including the things you have called out). Indians were there too but it was their second outing. SSG came out from the cold into the exercise and in a competition of over 20 countries, came in 4th after the hosts South Africa, India, and the Netherlands. There were quite a few European and Middle Eastern outfits there too. So we attended and our scores were a few points shy of the South Africans as the margin was very small. Point being, when it comes to real exercises and not "expo shows", we have done well.

Secondly, as someone mentioned GROM, forget about them as they are just cutting their teeth in Afghanistan now. SSG has more experience than most SF outfits put together. This goes for special forces missions in conventional wars and also in counter terrorism. While there is always room for betterment, ours is not a shabby bunch either ;-)

While they can always get more infusion is equipment and technology but you can only buy what you can afford. Ask any professional officer about what it takes to make it to the SSG and even those who dislike the SSG for various reasons will admit that it is no easy task and this in an army which is extremely labor intensive as is (meaning our regular infantry units have it much harder than most European/Middle Eastern Armies.)

Lastly, such competitions are about preparing a certain way to perform well. The events and methodology are chosen by the host nation. They may or may not reflect reality. Sometimes your preparation pays off, other times it does not. Think of it like any other cricket match or other sport. As long as you can compete well because your own training is realistic and tough, you are good and it does not matter whether you place 1st or 2nd or 3rd. Just need to compete well and be amongst the top teams.

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## In arduis fidelis

Metal 0-1 said:


> They only got Gold medal didn't outclassed in entire Cambrian Patrol competition. That's Great, they won competition like Beijing Sniping competition even they lost in Kazakhstan Golden Owl competition.
> 
> What about more advanced competitions. Include CQB, CASEVAC, Long Range Shooting, Obstacle courses, Different scenarios, shooting in dark under NVGs.
> 
> Brother its not about inferiority complex, its reality. Our troops especially tough but toughness is not always in need. You need modern operational skill set. SSG still use old skill sets. Just compare any video...We all know our tough LCB lost badly at King Abdullah Warrior Competetion...


I wont go into a long discussion with you due to constraint of time on my side but few things i want to get across.
Firstly LCB are at most Infantry with a basic SF training you cant expect them to compete with SOF operators. That was a tester from our side.

Secondly performing in competition is one thing and performance under ops conditions is totally different ball game. Unless you haven't seen SSG operate first hand or read up on first hand accounts of their ops from last 2 decades you cant judge them especially from videos bcz PA as a whole is little camera shy in regards to their tactics and strategies.

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## Awan68

Angry Easterling said:


> Because if we do some random euro country that nobody has heard about would mop the floor with us
> 
> Ssg cant even compete with a 2nd rate force like polish grom


SSG is easily in the top 5 SF units in the world u inferiority complex ridden mofo, they have had success in envoirments where even the yanks have failed, somebody kick this "self loathing wanabe who thinks who knows something but is just a skinny little idiot behind a keyboard who has seen too many propganda hollywood flicks" out of here.


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## Metal 0-1

In arduis fidelis said:


> I wont go into a long discussion with you due to constraint of time on my side but few things i want to get across.
> Firstly LCB are at most Infantry with a basic SF training you cant expect them to compete with SOF operators. That was a tester from our side.
> 
> Secondly performing in competition is one thing and performance under ops conditions is totally different ball game. Unless you haven't seen SSG operate first hand or read up on first hand accounts of their ops from last 2 decades you cant judge them especially from videos bcz PA as a whole is little camera shy in regards to their tactics and strategies.



Competitions are meant to test them under high pressure situation.

SSG is not really shy of camera. That's not an excuse. Modern SOF don't reveal their Operators names and faces but showcase their skills globally.....



blain2 said:


> Cambrian Patrol has always been attended by detachments from our regular Infantry battalions and they do quite well.
> 
> The idea of sending the LCB is to pitch garden infantry units against possibly SF teams from other nations.
> There is no guarantee that Pakistani teams will come out on top however as long as they are among the top teams is what matters.
> 
> For the "more advanced competitions" you mention, I recall a few years ago, SSG participated in one of the most grueling SF competition hosted in South Africa called Ex. Airborne Africa (10 events including the things you have called out). Indians were there too but it was their second outing. SSG came out from the cold into the exercise and in a competition of over 20 countries, came in 4th after the hosts South Africa, India, and the Netherlands. There were quite a few European and Middle Eastern outfits there too. So we attended and our scores were a few points shy of the South Africans as the margin was very small. Point being, when it comes to real exercises and not "expo shows", we have done well.
> 
> Secondly, as someone mentioned GROM, forget about them as they are just cutting their teeth in Afghanistan now. SSG has more experience than most SF outfits put together. This goes for special forces missions in conventional wars and also in counter terrorism. While there is always room for betterment, ours is not a shabby bunch either ;-)
> 
> While they can always get more infusion is equipment and technology but you can only buy what you can afford. Ask any professional officer about what it takes to make it to the SSG and even those who dislike the SSG for various reasons will admit that it is no easy task and this in an army which is extremely labor intensive as is (meaning our regular infantry units have it much harder than most European/Middle Eastern Armies.)
> 
> Lastly, such competitions are about preparing a certain way to perform well. The events and methodology are chosen by the host nation. They may or may not reflect reality. Sometimes your preparation pays off, other times it does not. Think of it like any other cricket match or other sport. As long as you can compete well because your own training is realistic and tough, you are good and it does not matter whether you place 1st or 2nd or 3rd. Just need to compete well and be amongst the top teams.


That's what I am saying. 
LCB lost from Palestinians, Lebanese and Canadians. 
Host a competition at Local level. Maybe pick some teams from friendly countries. 
It's a type of training. You put your men under stressed conditions and see the outcome. You'll know where our troops lack and Excel. It's not winning or losing. Law enforcement may lose to Military teams but they will get a chance to compete and learn something from their brothers in arms..

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## In arduis fidelis

Metal 0-1 said:


> Competitions are meant to test them under high pressure situation.
> 
> SSG is not really shy of camera. That's not an excuse. Modern SOF don't reveal their Operators names and faces but showcase their skills globally.....
> /QUOTE]
> 
> As i said not here for the argument but Operational record of SSG in last 2 decades speaks for itself.
> 
> And other then ISPR songs where have you seen SSG showing their "skill set". I would like to see these videos.


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## Thorough Pro

Are you a Pakistani? 

If yes then you are impressed by the equipment displayed by the other forces in their promotional videos and are suffering from inferiority complex. 

When bullets start flying, equipment gets forgotten pretty quickly and the only thing that keeps you in the fight is your belief in the cause and your motivation and nothing motivates you more than your belief that a Muslim wins whether he lives or dies in a battle. 




Angry Easterling said:


> Because if we do some random euro country that nobody has heard about would mop the floor with us
> 
> Ssg cant even compete with a 2nd rate force like polish grom


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## pzfz

Thorough Pro said:


> If yes then you are impressed by the equipment displayed by the other forces in their promotional videos and are suffering from inferiority complex.
> 
> When bullets start flying, equipment gets forgotten pretty quickly and the only thing that keeps you in the fight is your belief in the cause and your motivation and nothing motivates you more than your belief that a Muslim wins whether he lives or dies in a battle.


Actually when bullets start flying equipment (protection, sit awareness, comms, weapons), training, tactics, and skills are what keep you in the battle; not prayer and faith. Why then don't Pak soldiers just go into battle naked armed with a pick ax? Stop normalizing losing. Fighting isn't about getting a participation trophy - it's about winning.



Awan68 said:


> SSG is easily in the top 5 SF units in the world u inferiority complex ridden mofo, they have had success in envoirments where even the yanks have failed, somebody kick this "self loathing wanabe who thinks who knows something but is just a skinny little idiot behind a keyboard who has seen too many propganda hollywood flicks" out of here.


This isn't abuse mods? Also ssg are no where near the top if we're going by childish rankings. The same rankings where somehow ISI ranks near the top even when nds and raw run circles around them.

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## Awan68

pzfz said:


> Actually when bullets start flying equipment (protection, sit awareness, comms, weapons), training, tactics, and skills are what keep you in the battle; not prayer and faith. Why then don't Pak soldiers just into battle naked armed with a pick ax? Stop normalizing losing. Fighting isn't about getting a participation trophy - it's about winning.
> 
> 
> This isn't abuse mods? Also ssg are no where near the top if we're going by childish rankings. The same rankings where somehow ISI ranks near the top even when nds and raw run circles around them.


Childish rankings?, raw and nds getting better of ISI?, lol,Keep blowing out of ur Ahole, i wont even dignify ur babble with a response.


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## Metal 0-1

*Part 3 of Latvian SOF warrior competition : Captain Duel*





*You see the points table even the US Army 10th Special Forces Group is losing badly from Police special units..*

*Again, SOF competitions are not meant for winning and losing. Its about learning from your mistakes. Work on your weakness. Try to learn even from a low level unit putting the ego of top tier to side. Try to teach something as well. You can learn about different tactics, how others employ them, what kind of equipment they use.. 

It'll really help and will be nice if Pakistan conducted such competition at local level participants including SOF, Special units, Paramilitary, Law enforcement units form different corners from Pakistan and from friendly nations..

P.S If you lose badly without even trying then all the above things don't employ, you better train better or leave the job...*

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## PanzerKiel



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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 644104



Whats with SSG, SSG-N, SSW not covering their faces and posting their pictures on social media?

AND Whats with our media and fanpages not blurring their faces.?

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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Whats with SSG, SSG-N, SSW not covering their faces and posting their pictures on social media?
> 
> AND Whats with our media and fanpages not blurring their faces.?



Answers to these questions can be found in the years 1962 till 1964.


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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> Answers to these questions can be found in the years 1962 till 1964.


Will you please?


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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Will you please?



With regards to open identification of SSG.... Under Gen Mitha, they used to wear normal baloch regiment beret and shoulder titles..... But then... After him... In his own words.... The rot started to set in.... 

It started with wearing SSG wing.... SSG shoulder titles and beret.... Use of SSG's individuals on VIP protection duties, free fall and SSG's contingent parade on 23 March..... Air Marshals in 70s and 80s...SSG formation sign



PanzerKiel said:


> With regards to open identification of SSG.... Under Gen Mitha, they used to wear normal baloch regiment beret and shoulder titles..... But then... After him... In his own words.... The rot started to set in....
> 
> It started with wearing SSG wing.... SSG shoulder titles and beret.... Use of SSG's individuals on VIP protection duties, free fall and SSG's contingent parade on 23 March..... Air Marshals in 70s and 80s...SSG formation sign


... And the remaining.... Social media allows everyone to show off.... Something in our national psyche..... Just like Wagah parade...

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## Reichmarshal

Sub. Kiyani got a reprimand for posting the pic and was sent back to his parent unit.

PA now a days is very strict with material being posted online including pics.

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## Amaa'n

PanzerKiel said:


> ... And the remaining.... Social media allows everyone to show off.... Something in our national psyche..... Just like Wagah parade..


as the saying goes *if you*'ve *got it, flaunt it*

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> With regards to open identification of SSG.... Under Gen Mitha, they used to wear normal baloch regiment beret and shoulder titles..... But then... After him... In his own words.... The rot started to set in....
> 
> It started with wearing SSG wing.... SSG shoulder titles and beret.... Use of SSG's individuals on VIP protection duties, free fall and SSG's contingent parade on 23 March..... Air Marshals in 70s and 80s...SSG formation sign
> 
> 
> ... And the remaining.... Social media allows everyone to show off.... Something in our national psyche..... Just like Wagah parade...



This needs to be stopped now. French have a law in their constitution: "You can't take pictures of SF personnel, SF personnel are also bound to this law."

Western SF guys don't go around showing their faces they even cover their faces during public ceremonies..

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## PanzerKiel

Reichmarshal said:


> Sub. Kiyani got a reprimand for posting the pic and was sent back to his parent unit.
> 
> PA now a days is very strict with material being posted online including pics.



@Metal 0-1

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## Amaa'n

the notorious Vigo walay _Bhai




P.S pic is old and has been posted on this thread....sharing it again to refresh memory of some....PTM walon ki jal rahi hai Facebook pe 
_

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## PanzerKiel

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> the notorious Vigo walay _Bhai
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S pic is old and has been posted on this thread....sharing it again to refresh memory of some....PTM walon ki jal rahi hai Facebook pe _



I shared it.

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## Amaa'n

PanzerKiel said:


> I shared it.


may be you shared it on some other thread, but on Page 180, it's shared by another member? perhaps he copied it over from another post....

there is one photo of a friend of mine & he wasn't in any special ops that time....regular infantry, it was his off duty so was in civil clothes....his picture started circulating as some hot shot... ...though he's in SSG now ...

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## PanzerKiel

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> may be you shared it on some other thread, but on Page 180, it's shared by another member? perhaps he copied it over from another post....
> 
> there is one photo of a friend of mine & he wasn't in any special ops that time....regular infantry, it was his off duty so was in civil clothes....his picture started circulating as some hot shot... ...though he's in SSG now ...



Roger


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## Amaa'n

PanzerKiel said:


> I shared it.


if you have more of these, do share with stuff blurred out as you please....
sometime they are useful for setting PTM & Surkhas on fire

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## PanzerKiel

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> if you have more of these, do share with stuff blurred out as you please....
> sometime they are useful for setting PTM & Surkhas on fire



I've got mostly of only one commando unit, including the one you shared.... Actually i lost my class fellow as part of this unit....



Foxtrot Alpha said:


> there is one photo of a friend of mine & he wasn't in any special ops that time....regular infantry, it was his off duty so was in civil clothes....his picture started circulating as some hot shot... ...though he's in SSG now ...



Do share his pic in PM if possible, let's see if i can identify him.

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## AMG_12

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> may be you shared it on some other thread, but on Page 180, it's shared by another member? perhaps he copied it over from another post....
> 
> there is one photo of a friend of mine & he wasn't in any special ops that time....regular infantry, it was his off duty so was in civil clothes....his picture started circulating as some hot shot... ...though he's in SSG now ...


Shared by me

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## Amaa'n

AMG_12 said:


> Shared by me


g sir, i know I was looking for these photos for a week now, swifting through the threads....finally found them today morning ....

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## PanzerKiel



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## Amaa'n

PanzerKiel said:


> I shared it.


I just had a closer look at the two point sling they are using on AK, I got the same one on mine, both AK & M4....what's your feedback on this sling? i personally didn't like it, it hangs way too low & loose for me....like if you see in this photo, the standing point has his sling wrapped around Buttstock to make it little tight so the gun doesn't hang loose...
AK on the person at front (am assuming Major sb? ) his AK is hanging little loose ....for a tall person it would hang near the abdomen

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## PanzerKiel

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> I just had a closer look at the two point sling they are using on AK, I got the same one on mine, both AK & M4....what's your feedback on this sling? i personally didn't like it, it hangs way too low & loose for me....like if you see in this photo, the standing point has his sling wrapped around Buttstock to make it little tight so the gun doesn't hang loose...
> AK on the person at front (am assuming Major sb? ) his AK is hanging little loose ....for a tall person it would hang near the abdomen



We call it double sling, i personally like it.....it can always be adjusted as to one's desires.

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## Amaa'n

PanzerKiel said:


> We call it double sling, i personally like it.....it can always be adjusted as to one's desires.


heres mine after a mag dump test.....Colt barrel with FN M16A4 bolt .... butt stock has been replaced with Magpul red dot i have acquired a chinese one for now but i need to find an original aimpoint now

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## Metal 0-1

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> I just had a closer look at the two point sling they are using on AK, I got the same one on mine, both AK & M4....what's your feedback on this sling? i personally didn't like it, it hangs way too low & loose for me....like if you see in this photo, the standing point has his sling wrapped around Buttstock to make it little tight so the gun doesn't hang loose...
> AK on the person at front (am assuming Major sb? ) his AK is hanging little loose ....for a tall person it would hang near the abdomen



All Depends on personal preference. If one thing works for a person let it be.. If its work its ain't stupid..



Foxtrot Alpha said:


> heres mine after a mag dump test.....Colt barrel with FN M16A4 bolt .... butt stock has been replaced with Magpul red dot i have acquired a chinese one for now but i need to find an original aimpoint now
> View attachment 644267



Holy guacamolly! Pretty sexy setup you got there...

Tell me ho much I have to spend money and time on this particular setup..?

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## Metal 0-1

*Irrelevant but some crucial skills to develop. Maybe SSG/SSG-N/SSW have some sort of training under NVGs shooting but need some advanced skills.
Part 4




*

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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> *Irrelevant but some crucial skills to develop. Maybe SSG/SSG-N/SSW have some sort of training under NVGs shooting but need some advanced skills.
> Part 4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



our special forces skills with NVGs is PRETTY good.

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## Amaa'n

blain2 said:


> That is Maj Gen Faisal Alvi in the picture when these operations started


@PanzerKiel do you have pics of Maj.Gen Faisal from ops area? please share here

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## Bratva

PanzerKiel said:


> Capt Sikander, 2 Cdo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Capt Sikander, 2 Cdo, on the right while Col Suleman, CO 2 Cdo in the centre. Both attained shahadat in the famous ambush on Ghazi company of 2 Cdo.





blain2 said:


> This was the single biggest loss suffered by the SSG, ever! 16 troops (including 2 officers) were martyred during the ambush.
> 
> 
> That is police.
> 
> 
> 
> That is Maj Gen Faisal Alvi in the picture when these operations started.



2 Commando Battalion has a very grim history. They suffered worst causalities through out the history of SSG including their lead-ship getting killed in the process.

1971 Loss is nothing compare to what SSG Suffered in 2006 Baluchistan Ops, where the Bugti was killed. 2 Commando Batallion entire command and leadership was martyred. 1 Lt.Col, 2 Major, 3 Captains along with 20-30 Jawans Martyred fighting Bugti and his armed band.

LT.COL Amir Hameed Shaheed

Major Khalid Aziz Shaheed

Major Pervaiz Siddique Shaheed

Captain Zameer Abbas Shaheed

Name of other 2 Captains were not released.

2006 replaces the the 1971 single day loss. Then comes the 2007 LAL Masjid Operation, Zarrar ATU CO and his 2IC gets martyred in Operation and then Zarrar ATU is further hit with the Suicide bomb at their Tarbela base.

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## PanzerKiel

Bratva said:


> 2 Commando Battalion has a very grim history. They suffered worst causalities through out the history of SSG including their lead-ship getting killed in the process.
> 
> 1971 Loss is nothing compare to what SSG Suffered in 2006 Baluchistan Ops, where the Bugti was killed. 2 Commando Batallion entire command and leadership was martyred. 1 Lt.Col, 2 Major, 3 Captains along with 20-30 Jawans Martyred fighting Bugti and his armed band.
> 
> LT.COL Amir Hameed Shaheed
> 
> Major Khalid Aziz Shaheed
> 
> Major Pervaiz Siddique Shaheed
> 
> Captain Zameer Abbas Shaheed
> 
> Name of other 2 Captains were not released.
> 
> 2006 replaces the the 1971 single day loss. Then comes the 2007 LAL Masjid Operation, Zarrar ATU CO and his 2IC gets martyred in Operation and then Zarrar ATU is further hit with the Suicide bomb at their Tarbela base.


.... And then there some other deadly actions as well

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## Cuirassier

Bratva said:


> 2 Commando Battalion has a very grim history. They suffered worst causalities through out the history of SSG including their lead-ship getting killed in the process.
> 
> 1971 Loss is nothing compare to what SSG Suffered in 2006 Baluchistan Ops, where the Bugti was killed. 2 Commando Batallion entire command and leadership was martyred. 1 Lt.Col, 2 Major, 3 Captains along with 20-30 Jawans Martyred fighting Bugti and his armed band.
> 
> LT.COL Amir Hameed Shaheed
> 
> Major Khalid Aziz Shaheed
> 
> Major Pervaiz Siddique Shaheed
> 
> Captain Zameer Abbas Shaheed
> 
> Name of other 2 Captains were not released.
> 
> 2006 replaces the the 1971 single day loss. Then comes the 2007 LAL Masjid Operation, Zarrar ATU CO and his 2IC gets martyred in Operation and then Zarrar ATU is further hit with the Suicide bomb at their Tarbela base.


Not all in the Kohlu Cave Collapse were from 2 Cdo. Major Pervaiz was an ex-SSG commanding a FC BLN Wing AFAIK. 7 or 8 were from serving SSG rest were FC or Army.

Karrar Coy Mess blast - according to official data in a list it seems like the actual number was less. Will recheck and tell.

Coming back to the first point, Rahber is indeed the most bloodied and decorated unit.

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## blain2

Bratva said:


> 2 Commando Battalion has a very grim history. They suffered worst causalities through out the history of SSG including their lead-ship getting killed in the process.
> 
> 1971 Loss is nothing compare to what SSG Suffered in 2006 Baluchistan Ops, where the Bugti was killed. 2 Commando Batallion entire command and leadership was martyred. 1 Lt.Col, 2 Major, 3 Captains along with 20-30 Jawans Martyred fighting Bugti and his armed band.
> 
> LT.COL Amir Hameed Shaheed
> 
> Major Khalid Aziz Shaheed
> 
> Major Pervaiz Siddique Shaheed
> 
> Captain Zameer Abbas Shaheed
> 
> Name of other 2 Captains were not released.
> 
> 2006 replaces the the 1971 single day loss. Then comes the 2007 LAL Masjid Operation, Zarrar ATU CO and his 2IC gets martyred in Operation and then Zarrar ATU is further hit with the Suicide bomb at their Tarbela base.



The above in Balochistan was not a one event loss of life. This was attrition in fighting against the Bugti militants over a period of time vs. what happened in December 1971.

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## Metal 0-1

Blast from the past. Zarrar ATU....... Don't they look like SAS...

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## PanzerKiel

Brig Sher Ullah Baig (SSG) putting SSG wing on Air Marshal Noor Khan

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## PanzerKiel

Capt Sikander shaheed, 2 Cdo, on the left.





BRIGADIER IQBAL NAZIR WARRAICH 4 FF , 23 FF, SSG

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## Metal 0-1

Again Pakistan need to step up its game on SF, SOF and LE training on teamwork.
Nice example was yesterday's attack on PSX. Where RRF constables gunned down two terrorists.
I really wish to see our boys going through competition like this at a local level and some friendly countries.
In teamwork, you need to use your mental strength, physical strength. Going through psychological and physical obstacles.

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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel

Col Haroon

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## PanzerKiel

Maj Kazim Kamal shaheed, 9 PR, SSG

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


>



love this poncho guy on the right...

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## Metal 0-1

Early 2000s. SSG team assigned to VIP protection. Type-56 with ammo box mounted on the top of Land Cruiser.



￼

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## Zarvan



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## Metal 0-1

Zarvan said:


> View attachment 647476



Sir G, can you help me out on finding this Zarrar boys video in Civies,or some more photos in civil clothing. Hide their faces you may want, don't wan't that confidential information

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## Zarvan

Metal 0-1 said:


> Si G, can you help me out on finding this Zarrar boys video in Civies,or some more photos in civil clothing. Hide their faces you may want, don't wan't that confidential information


@PanzerKiel and @DESERT FIGHTER Can help you with those

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## Metal 0-1

Zarvan said:


> @PanzerKiel and @DESERT FIGHTER Can help you with those



One is available on instagram same range just different cars and perspective but shitty music and quality.

I am afraid @PanzerKiel and @DESERT FIGHTER may not be that helpful.

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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> One is available on instagram same range just different cars and perspective but shitty music and quality.
> 
> I am afraid @PanzerKiel and @DESERT FIGHTER may not be that helpful.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Metal 0-1 said:


> One is available on instagram same range just different cars and perspective but shitty music and quality.
> 
> I am afraid @PanzerKiel and @DESERT FIGHTER may not be that helpful.


You would find a few pics in this thread, somebody posted em here.

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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel



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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


>


Actually, I posted this photo on this this thread....

I was looking for video of this counter terror exercise in post #3619



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> You would find a few pics in this thread, somebody posted em here.



Actually I did..

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## Inception-06

blain2 said:


> The above in Balochistan was not a one event loss of life. This was attrition in fighting against the Bugti militants over a period of time vs. what happened in December 1971.



Where was this battle and what's the name of the battle, would like to read more about it.

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## PanzerKiel

Inception-06 said:


> Where was this battle and what's the name of the battle, would like to read more about it.



Ghazi Company, 2 Commando, East Pakistan, Operation Searchlight.

As per Brig Z A Khan, SSG, commanding 3 Commando.

When I returned in the evening to Dacca and went to the place where I was staying, I found Lieutenant Colonel Mohammad Suleiman, commanding officer 2 Commando Battalion there, he and about a company of 2 Commando Battalion had been air lifted from West Pakistan and later another flight of PIA brought another company.

While having our evening meal we turned on the radio and heard an Indian radio station, probably All India Radio, Calcutta, announce that Sheikh Mujib had safely crossed over to India. We also heard Major Zia ur Rehman, the second in command of 8 East Bengal Regiment, broadcast declaring the independence of Bangladesh and proclaiming himself the commander-in-chief of the Bangladesh army.

The next day, 27 March, I again accompanied Major General Mitha to the Naval Base, Ghazi and Shaheen Companies of 2 Commando Battalion, with Lieutenant Colonel Suleiman and his adjutant Captain Sikandar, flew in C-130s to Chittagong. In the late afternoon Major General A. O. Mitha ordered Lieutenant Colonel Suleiman to take his two companies and link up with 53 Brigade which was still held up on the Commilla - Chittagong road.

Since 2 Commando Battalion had come from West Pakistan, they were not familiar with Chittagong and required a guide to lead them. A Bihari officer, Captain Siddiqui whose parents were living on the outskirts of Chittagong and there was no news of them, had come to Chittagong from Azad Kashmir by getting lifts in the aircraft moving troops from West Pakistan. He had managed a lift in the C-130 bringing the commando battalion and he offered to guide 2 Commando Battalion to the outskirts of the city. Vehicles of the Pakistan Navy were borrowed and 2 Commando Battalion was ready to move at about five in the evening. Captain Sajjad came and told me that Lieutenant Colonel Suleiman had given orders to drive through the city in a convoy. I talked to Lieutenant Colonel Suleiman and told him that the situation was not a ‘aid to civil power’ situation and asked him to take precautions. He laughed and told me that all of us who were serving in East Pakistan had lost our nerves and ordered the convoy to move.

Major General Mitha also ordered reconnaissance of the East Pakistan Rifles headquarters with a view to clearing it and releasing some West Pakistanis that were known to be held prisoners. After giving these orders and telling me to stay back the general flew back to Dacca.

Major Salman Ahmad, Ebrahim Company commander, who with his company had gone to West Pakistan in December after completing two years with 3 Commando Battalion in East Pakistan, had accompanied 2 Commando Battalion because he was the only officer in the battalion who had been in East Pakistan. Major Salman was given charge of the reconnaissance of the East Pakistan Rifles Headquarters because he was familiar with the East Pakistan Rifles Headquarters, Captain Zaidi, later brigadier, from 2 Commando Battalion and Subedar Ramzan of 3 Commando Battalion and some men of Hamza Company made up the party and moved off at about the same time as 2 Commando Battalion.

At the Naval Base, at about seven thirty in the evening, I was called to the telephone and told that there was a call for me from Tiger Pass, a Naval establishment in the city. On the line there was a lance naik from Ghazi Company, he told me that 2 Commando Battalion had been ambushed, everyone had been killed and he was the sole survivor. I told him that it was impossible for the whole battalion to be killed, that he had deserted and asked the authorities at Tiger Pass to place him under arrest.

At about eleven o’clock Major Mohammad Iqbal, later brigadier, Ghazi company commander came and reported to me that 2 Commando Battalion had been ambushed about half a mile from where the Commilla road started, that Lieutenant Colonel Suleiman, Captain Sikandar and Captain Siddiqui had been killed and he had brought the casualties. The Naval Base had a small Medical Inspection Room and a medical officer who was a lieutenant commander. The wounded were first taken out and laid out on the floor of the MI Room, then the dead. The medical officer, when he came and saw the dead and the wounded lying on the floor, fainted and had to be carried away. Then someone from the Navy said that there were some medical college students in the Naval Base, they were called and they with the nursing orderlies gave whatever aid that could be given. There were twenty three dead, Lieutenant Colonel Suleiman, Captain Sikandar and Captain Siddiqui, Subedar Allah Din and nineteen other ranks, and twenty wounded. Major Iqbal took the remainder of the company back to the ambush site to clear it but there was nobody there. We later learnt that the ambush was laid by a subedar major of the East Pakistan Rifles to ambush 53 Brigade when they entered Chittagong.

The place where the ambush of 2 Commando Battalion took place was near the East Pakistan Rifles headquarters. When the firing took place at the ambush site the personnel defending the headquarters took up their firing positions and intercepted the reconnaissance party, wounding Captain Zaidi. Major Salman and Subedar Ramzan carried Captain Zaidi for about four hundred yards, then Subedar Ramzan went and brought a vehicle, Captain Zaidi was put in it and the vehicle started moving towards the Naval Base. A sentry left by the reconnaissance party, signalled the vehicle to stop, the vehicle did not stop and as it went past the sentry he fired two shots in the dark, both bullets hit Subedar Ramzan in the thigh. Later Subedar Ramzan commented on the excellence of the man’s night shooting ability.

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## blain2

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 647144
> 
> 
> View attachment 647182
> 
> Maj Kazim Kamal shaheed, 9 PR, SSG


Major Kazim Kamal shaheed was was a very affable officer but one who was unfortunately martyred in a very brutal manner by the MB.

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## ghazi52

Passing out Parade of Pak Navy SEAL Course held at Karachi. The parade comprised of officers and sailors, who completed rigorous training in conformity to the set standards. The Chief Guest, COMCOAST, V/ Adm Fasial Rasul Lodhi congratulated the Navy SEALs

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## Cuirassier

Cuirassier said:


> Not all in the Kohlu Cave Collapse were from 2 Cdo. Major Pervaiz was an ex-SSG commanding a FC BLN Wing AFAIK. 7 or 8 were from serving SSG rest were FC or Army.
> 
> Karrar Coy Mess blast - according to official data in a list it seems like the actual number was less. Will recheck and tell.
> 
> Coming back to the first point, Rahber is indeed the most bloodied and decorated unit.


Coming back to this discussion - the Tarbela Mess bombing claimed the lives of 14 SSG troopers.

13 commandos were martyred on the fateful day of 5 April 2013, including Captain Wasim of 3 Commando Bn, at Inzar Gul, Tirah. They were part of the elite Ebrahim Coy of Qiadat fame - the company commander and another captain 'S' were WIA (saw couple of pictures of him with that golden stripe too). All 13 were awarded TBt posthumously. It was a joint Lashkar-e-Islam/TTP ambush I believe. Riles me up whenever I remember Mangal Bagh Afridi is still alive.

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## PanzerKiel

Cuirassier said:


> Coming back to this discussion - the Tarbela Mess bombing claimed the lives of 14 SSG troopers.
> 
> 13 commandos were martyred on the fateful day of 5 April 2013, including Captain Wasim of 3 Commando Bn, at Inzar Gul, Tirah. They were part of the elite Ebrahim Coy of Qiadat fame - the company commander and another captain 'S' were WIA (saw couple of pictures of him with that golden stripe too). All 13 were awarded TBt posthumously. It was a joint Lashkar-e-Islam/TTP ambush I believe. Riles me up whenever I remember Mangal Bagh Afridi is still alive.



Waseem is my school class fellow.....excellent man. I was in the ops area as well once this incident occurred. It was not an ambush. The casualties were from Hamza Company. Waseem wasnt from this company but volunteered to go in the place of another Hamza Company officer (again, a close friend of mine) who was much junior to him.

I know Waseem since he was this much...




....till he was like this....

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## ghazi52

Brigadier TM Shaheed, (8 Oct 1938 – 29 May 1989), SJ (Bar), SBt, SI(M) was a legendary soldier and lethal weapon of Pakistan Army. He was serving as the Commandant of Special Services Group. (SSG)










Javed Akhter....................... I was attending Staff College in 1989. He addressed us as a guest speaker on the role of SSG only a week before his fateful fall.During the the lecture he had consecutively been giving for the past many years, he said THIS IS MY LAST ADDRESS TO THE STUDENTS OF STAFF COLLEGE. Allah pak darjaat bulland farmaeen..

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## Cuirassier

PanzerKiel said:


> Waseem is my school class fellow.....excellent man. I was in the ops area as well once this incident occurred. It was not an ambush. The casualties were from Hamza Company. Waseem wasnt from this company but volunteered to go in the place of another Hamza Company officer (again, a close friend of mine) who was much junior to him.
> 
> I know Waseem since he was this much...
> View attachment 648698
> 
> ....till he was like this....
> View attachment 648697


Thanks for the correction. Must be proud of him.

BTW could you give further details? What I've heard is that 8 Punjab was ambushed in the area and the SSG followed through suffering the above losses. Even some talk of mutilation back in those days when we were still in shock on WTF had happened and there was radio silence from concerned quarters.

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## PanzerKiel

Cuirassier said:


> Thanks for the correction. Must be proud of him.
> 
> BTW could you give further details? What I've heard is that 8 Punjab was ambushed in the area and the SSG followed through suffering the above losses. Even some talk of mutilation back in those days when we were still in shock on WTF had happened and there was radio silence from concerned quarters.



This SSG action was separate from 8 PR action. Wasim's group, composed of two combat teams fought their way to a feature, suffering light casualties ( i think couple of wounded). This feature was sort of a plateau at height. However, once these two combat teams (20 odd men) reached the top, heavy fire opened up on them from adjoining heights.....12.7 mm DshKs ringed them and poured heavy fire, coupled with RPGs and snipers. SSG guys fought back but since they were exposed and dominated all around, were picked off one by one. Waseem got an initial bullet wound and one of his buddy pulled him and made him sit with his back against a rocky boulder. His last radio call was that in which he stated that his ammo had finished and he was pulling out his Glock.

It was a Friday. I wont forget that day. This op started in the morning and by approx 1000-1100 hours, nothing was heard about these two combat teams. Another SSG company (Shaheen i think) was inducted but could not clear the site. Ultimately a whole SSG battalion went in and managed to fight to Waseem's location. It took a great time to recover the bodies since they were spread everywhere, every SSG guy had fought back individually.
TTP / LLI bastards, after having eliminated the SSG teams, had then climbed on this feature and fired point bank into the bodies.

Sequel to Waseem's action was more horrible, but the other way around. What happened when more SSG troops arrived along with AH1s and artillery is entirely a different story.

Waseem's parents and my parents were looking for our potential brides during this time, we both were supposed to be married the same year in October. This action occurred on 5 April 2013.

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## ghazi52



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## Zarvan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280173450762563584

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## Metal 0-1

Zarvan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280173450762563584



Was looking for something like this. Last time I asked.


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## Adam_Khan

PanzerKiel said:


> This SSG action was separate from 8 PR action. Wasim's group, composed of two combat teams fought their way to a feature, suffering light casualties ( i think couple of wounded). This feature was sort of a plateau at height. However, once these two combat teams (20 odd men) reached the top, heavy fire opened up on them from adjoining heights.....12.7 mm DshKs ringed them and poured heavy fire, coupled with RPGs and snipers. SSG guys fought back but since they were exposed and dominated all around, were picked off one by one. Waseem got an initial bullet wound and one of his buddy pulled him and made him sit with his back against a rocky boulder. His last radio call was that in which he stated that his ammo had finished and he was pulling out his Glock.
> 
> It was a Friday. I wont forget that day. This op started in the morning and by approx 1000-1100 hours, nothing was heard about these two combat teams. Another SSG company (Shaheen i think) was inducted but could not clear the site. Ultimately a whole SSG battalion went in and managed to fight to Waseem's location. It took a great time to recover the bodies since they were spread everywhere, every SSG guy had fought back individually.
> TTP / LLI bastards, after having eliminated the SSG teams, had then climbed on this feature and fired point bank into the bodies.
> 
> Sequel to Waseem's action was more horrible, but the other way around. What happened when more SSG troops arrived along with AH1s and artillery is entirely a different story.
> 
> Waseem's parents and my parents were looking for our potential brides during this time, we both were supposed to be married the same year in October. This action occurred on 5 April 2013.




Heard 36 Punjab had a very bad time in Tirah operation as well, do you know as to what happened to them? Tirah operation as a whole was a very bloody operation for the army.

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## Slides

PanzerKiel said:


> This SSG action was separate from 8 PR action. Wasim's group, composed of two combat teams fought their way to a feature, suffering light casualties ( i think couple of wounded). This feature was sort of a plateau at height. However, once these two combat teams (20 odd men) reached the top, heavy fire opened up on them from adjoining heights.....12.7 mm DshKs ringed them and poured heavy fire, coupled with RPGs and snipers. SSG guys fought back but since they were exposed and dominated all around, were picked off one by one. Waseem got an initial bullet wound and one of his buddy pulled him and made him sit with his back against a rocky boulder. His last radio call was that in which he stated that his ammo had finished and he was pulling out his Glock.
> 
> It was a Friday. I wont forget that day. This op started in the morning and by approx 1000-1100 hours, nothing was heard about these two combat teams. Another SSG company (Shaheen i think) was inducted but could not clear the site. Ultimately a whole SSG battalion went in and managed to fight to Waseem's location. It took a great time to recover the bodies since they were spread everywhere, every SSG guy had fought back individually.
> TTP / LLI bastards, after having eliminated the SSG teams, had then climbed on this feature and fired point bank into the bodies.
> 
> Sequel to Waseem's action was more horrible, but the other way around. What happened when more SSG troops arrived along with AH1s and artillery is entirely a different story.
> 
> Waseem's parents and my parents were looking for our potential brides during this time, we both were supposed to be married the same year in October. This action occurred on 5 April 2013.



Shameful that air support and backup was not available sooner. Bad planning.


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## Cuirassier

Adam_Khan said:


> Heard 36 Punjab had a very bad time in Tirah operation as well, do you know as to what happened to them? Tirah operation as a whole was a very bloody operation for the army.


I believe that was in 2015, Kidney Ridge area.

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## Metal 0-1

*SSW*..

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## Metal 0-1

SSW at Sakardu

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## Vapour

Metal 0-1 said:


> SSW at Sakardu??
> View attachment 655674



Weapon sure looks like a FN Herstal.

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## Metal 0-1

Vapour said:


> Weapon sure looks like a FN Herstal.



Talking about location not weapon


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## Bratva

PanzerKiel said:


> .... And then there some other deadly actions as well



If we are talking about non-SSG deadly actions. Two comes in mind. 2010 N.Waziritstan ambush. Approx 60 soldiers were killed including CO. Express tribune ran a report on the incident as well. A video of wounded soldier commenting on a hovering cobra above, how it saved the rest of them

Then comes the kidney ridge 2015, Tirah. Official death toll is put at 11. But Major and his entire company was ambushed in a similar way you described Captain Waseem Ambush. Unofficial death toll is put at 40-50

I guess these 2 incidents were the biggest single day KIA of PA in entire WoT



blain2 said:


> The above in Balochistan was not a one event loss of life. This was attrition in fighting against the Bugti militants over a period of time vs. what happened in December 1971.



Are you certain? Because this happened overnight? If the events were put in perspective, the action started on august 5 night, cave collapse and ambushing the 2 commando soldiers happened was a single day event.



Adam_Khan said:


> Heard 36 Punjab had a very bad time in Tirah operation as well, do you know as to what happened to them? Tirah operation as a whole was a very bloody operation for the army.






Cuirassier said:


> I believe that was in 2015, Kidney Ridge area.



Most probably similar thing what happened to Captain Waseem and his team. Major and his entire company was wiped out if unofficial news is to be believed. Major and his company was pinned by heavy presence of TTP and it was a night time battle. Afterwards, there were reports of 80-100 TTP getting killed


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## Ghost 125

Bratva said:


> If we are talking about non-SSG deadly actions. Two comes in mind. 2010 N.Waziritstan ambush. Approx 60 soldiers were killed including CO. Express tribune ran a report on the incident as well. A video of wounded soldier commenting on a hovering cobra above, how it saved the rest of them


that was in 2009, the wacha bibi ambush in dattakhel tehsil. 2 units convoy was ambushed by militants associated with Hafiz gul bahadar.... before that in 2007 another deadly ambush in hassukhel area, MirAli tehsil of NW resulted in 45 fatalities



Metal 0-1 said:


> Talking about location not weapon


yes its qadri air base, part of recent exercise.

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## Cuirassier

Let us not forget what happened to 7 Baloch in August '07. 211 men captured and released after Baitullah got his men out. In backdrop of Lal Masjid I guess the men had lost will to fight and were confused. CO and everyone was guilty of dereliction of duty.



Cuirassier said:


> Let us not forget what happened to 7 Baloch in August '07. 211 men captured and released after Baitullah got his men out. In backdrop of Lal Masjid I guess the men had lost will to fight and were confused. CO and everyone was guilty of dereliction of duty.


Dargai '06 losses to recruits of Punjab Regt. I remember the swines who didn't care. Good thing one of them just went 6 feet under recently. This is was first major hit outside FATA - where heavy losses in ambushes were common in '04-06.

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## Adam_Khan

Cuirassier said:


> Let us not forget what happened to 7 Baloch in August '07. 211 men captured and released after Baitullah got his men out. In backdrop of Lal Masjid I guess the men had lost will to fight and were confused. CO and everyone was guilty of dereliction of duty.
> 
> 
> Dargai '06 losses to recruits of Punjab Regt. I remember the swines who didn't care. Good thing one of them just went 6 feet under recently. This is was first major hit outside FATA - where heavy losses in ambushes were common in '04-06.



Watched the video of their surrender to Taliban,it was a whole convoy that was captured. A couple of them were sadly beheaded later on, the CO was court martialled.

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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
i am confused ssgn?


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## Cuirassier

bhola record said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
> i am confused ssgn?


the guy doesn't look like one of ours, might be from an exercise with some ASEAN Navy.

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## PanzerKiel

Cuirassier said:


> Let us not forget what happened to 7 Baloch in August '07. 211 men captured and released after Baitullah got his men out. In backdrop of Lal Masjid I guess the men had lost will to fight and were confused. CO and everyone was guilty of dereliction of duty.
> 
> 
> Dargai '06 losses to recruits of Punjab Regt. I remember the swines who didn't care. Good thing one of them just went 6 feet under recently. This is was first major hit outside FATA - where heavy losses in ambushes were common in '04-06.



7 Baluch story is entirely different. No fault of CO or his troops.

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## Cuirassier

PanzerKiel said:


> 7 Baluch story is entirely different. No fault of CO or his troops.


Sir, it would need a lengthy clarification, if any

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## PanzerKiel

Cuirassier said:


> Sir, it would need a lengthy clarification, if any



Exactly dear.... Would be painful for many as well.... Would open a new pandora box if narrated.

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> Exactly dear.... Would be painful for many as well.... Would open a new pandora box if narrated.


just for sake of story i can use one please

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## Zarvan

Cuirassier said:


> the guy doesn't look like one of ours, might be from an exercise with some ASEAN Navy.


Why the hell he would be wearing Pakistan Army uniform ???

@PanzerKiel @DESERT FIGHTER Sir can you people end the confusion here. Is this picture fake or real ??

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## PanzerKiel

Zarvan said:


> Why the hell he would be wearing Pakistan Army uniform ???
> 
> @PanzerKiel @DESERT FIGHTER Sir you can you people end the confusion here. Is this picture fake or real ??



Guy on right isnt wearing Pakistani uniform. Picture seems real, could be of some joint exercise....VBSS etc....


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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> Guy on right isnt wearing Pakistani uniform. Picture seems real, could be of some joint exercise....VBSS etc....


yup they do exchange equipment but they donot exchange uniforms.Now i must search for answers


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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel



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## Ghost 125

PanzerKiel said:


>


this is better sir

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## bhola record

what about this one?

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## PDF

Nerves of Steel!

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## chauvunist

PanzerKiel said:


>



Not from SSG but it's one of my favourites..

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## Rafi

YA ALI !!!!!!!!!!

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## bhola record

chauvunist said:


> Not from SSG but it's one of my favourites..


do mehsuds in FC still keep this long hair?


----------



## Metal 0-1

Again I am gonna SIMP for new gear. Of cost is the concern than buy this gear from China. Everybody knows Pakistan can get stuff at low price from China. Maybe Adopt a woodland/Arid Desert multicam camo pattern as well.

Chinese Police Special Unit..


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Metal 0-1 said:


> Again I am gonna SIMP for new gear. Of cost is the concern than buy this gear from China. Everybody knows Pakistan can get stuff at low price from China. Maybe Adopt a woodland/Arid Desert multicam camo pattern as well.
> 
> Chinese Police Special Unit..
> View attachment 660154


Ssgn and ssw have nice gear and SSG is getting better. These pics below are from 2018,19 and you can see better gear:

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## bhola record

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Ssgn and ssw have nice gear and SSG is getting better. These pics below are from 2018,19 and you can see better gear:
> View attachment 660513
> View attachment 660514
> View attachment 660515


you should see the ssg navy documentary from 2017 pretty good equipment

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## Sunny4pak

Detail Video on Special Forces of Pakistan | Part 01

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## bhola record

One thing always confuses me if the failure rate in SSG is so high that almost 90 percent applicants are weeded out then how do we have almost almost a division sized force? do correct me if i am wrong.

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## Metal 0-1

bhola record said:


> One thing always confuses me if the failure rate in SSG is so high that almost 90 percent applicants are weeded out then how do we have almost almost a division sized force? do correct me if i am wrong.



More competent Chaps


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## Metal 0-1

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Ssgn and ssw have nice gear and SSG is getting better. These pics below are from 2018,19 and you can see better gear:
> View attachment 660513
> View attachment 660514
> View attachment 660515



Lets see.
Older MICH 2001 helmet (Not a big issue).

Old school comtac headset(Not a Modern two way Peltor headset).

Plate carriers(Only limited to some Battalions and Coy like Powindah's and Zarrar. In Navy case some of them have these nice cyote brown plate carriers).

Combat boots still old school some still use old leather boots.

Ancient PVS-7s in abundance. PVS-14s single tube NVGs in small amount and it feels like looking through a toilet paper roll tube. Only one double tube NVG PVS-15 I have seen so far is in use by Air Force Ground Combateers..

Oolder block of M-4 I suspect barrel is still the same. Not reasonable upgrade. Like optics, Extended rail system, suppressors etc...

Lack of IFAKS. I suspect that not everyone carry even a tourniquet with them. 

Lacking IR strobes.

IR chem lights.

GPS at least for team leader.

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## Sunny4pak

Metal 0-1 said:


> More competent Chaps


As thousands of Jawans volunteers themselves every year, good point though. Furthermore, such drop out ratio brings *Real tough guys ahead.*


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## Yasser76

bhola record said:


> One thing always confuses me if the failure rate in SSG is so high that almost 90 percent applicants are weeded out then how do we have almost almost a division sized force? do correct me if i am wrong.



We have a big pool of men, total Pak Armed Forces are almost 1 million under arms. US Armed Forces similar in zise but US SOCOM is around 70,000 men. SSG is around 8 Battalions and 5 specialised companies so around about 6,000 - 7,000 men. That is a very small amount. 

UK Armed Forces is approx 130,000 with UK Special Forces being 2,000 strong.

Ratio wise SSG is very small


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## Sunny4pak

bhola record said:


> One thing always confuses me if the failure rate in SSG is so high that almost 90 percent applicants are weeded out then how do we have almost almost a division sized force? do correct me if i am wrong.



As thousands of Jawans volunteers themselves every year, good point though. Furthermore, such drop out ratio brings *Real tough guys ahead.*

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## Sunny4pak

*Detail Video on Special Forces of Pakistan | Part 02*






@bhola record @Rafi @PDF @StormBreaker @Zarvan

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## Metal 0-1

Sunny4pak said:


> *Detail Video on Special Forces of Pakistan | Part 02*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @bhola record @Rafi @PDF @StormBreaker @Zarvan



Pretty obvious Info which is available on wikipedia and which turns out to be wrong.....


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## Rafi

Metal 0-1 said:


> Pretty obvious Info which is available on wikipedia and which turns out to be wrong.....



Take a chill pill, dude is doing it for the love, and in my opinion, should be appreciated.

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## Metal 0-1

Rafi said:


> Take a chill pill, dude is doing it for the love, and in my opinion, should be appreciated.



Just saying. 

Fan boys fall for wrong info very easily...

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## bhola record

Rafi said:


> Take a chill pill, dude is doing it for the love, and in my opinion, should be appreciated.


 agreed dude i personally enjoy this stuff much better than other channels he knows his shit


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## Metal 0-1

PDF said:


> Nerves of Steel!



As I suspected. 

No IFAKs not even tourniquets..


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## Rafi

Metal 0-1 said:


> Just saying.
> 
> Fan boys fall for wrong info very easily...



You are right but we still should encourage people who love.


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## PanzerKiel

They way Gen Zia meets Brig Tariq at 11:00......

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> They way Gen Zia meets Brig Tariq at 11:00......


which year is this?

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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> which year is this?



1983

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## Sunny4pak

*Special Services Group of Pak Navy*

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## Sunny4pak

Metal 0-1 said:


> Pretty obvious Info which is available on Wikipedia and which turns out to be wrong.....



Sir, there is not always the wrong info (considering we are not the insiders), furthermore, I published a video about two weeks ago regarding Rafale Acquisition and PAF response/preparation. 

*In that video, I analyse that PAF doesn't need J10 at this Point instead they should focus on Project AZM & JFT Block3.*
The same words were expressed by Sir. Kaiser Tufail in his recent interview on a live interview at youtube.

*Secondly, I said PAF is fully capable of dealing with IAF's Rafale with the likes of F16 Block52 and JF17 Block3. *
The same thing pointed out by Sir Kaiser Tufail in the abovementioned interview.

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## bhola record

Sunny4pak said:


> Sir, there is not always the wrong info (considering we are not the insiders), furthermore, I published a video about two weeks ago regarding Rafale Acquisition and PAF response/preparation.
> 
> *In that video, I analyse that PAF doesn't need J10 at this Point instead they should focus on Project AZM & JFT Block3.*
> The same words were expressed by Sir. Kaiser Tufail in his recent interview on a live interview at youtube.
> 
> *Secondly, I said PAF is fully capable of dealing with IAF's Rafale with the likes of F16 Block52 and JF17 Block3. *
> The same thing pointed out by Sir Kaiser Tufail in the abovementioned interview.


no need to explain anyone keep up dude

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## Metal 0-1

Sunny4pak said:


> Sir, there is not always the wrong info (considering we are not the insiders), furthermore, I published a video about two weeks ago regarding Rafale Acquisition and PAF response/preparation.
> 
> *In that video, I analyse that PAF doesn't need J10 at this Point instead they should focus on Project AZM & JFT Block3.*
> The same words were expressed by Sir. Kaiser Tufail in his recent interview on a live interview at youtube.
> 
> *Secondly, I said PAF is fully capable of dealing with IAF's Rafale with the likes of F16 Block52 and JF17 Block3. *
> The same thing pointed out by Sir Kaiser Tufail in the abovementioned interview.



First thing first. 
So you are the admin of that channel.

Did I said anything about acquisition?
I do watch your channel and found pretty informative.

I was talking about your last video on SSW.


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## Sunny4pak

Metal 0-1 said:


> First thing first.
> So you are the admin of that channel.
> 
> Did I said anything about acquisition?
> I do watch your channel and found pretty informative.
> 
> I was talking about your last video on SSW.



Thanks for the acknowledgement. Stay blessed dear.


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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
sorry if repost

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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## Metal 0-1

bhola record said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
> sorry if repost



SSG Operator with US Army 1st Infantry Division two star officer.


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## Metal 0-1

bhola record said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram



Doesn't they are given arctic warfare boots. These boots are wet might lead to frostbite..


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## bhola record

Metal 0-1 said:


> Doesn't they are given arctic warfare boots. These boots are wet might lead to frostbite..


i don't know they seem to be doing pretty well.


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## Metal 0-1

bhola record said:


> i don't know they seem to be doing pretty well.



They are if these guys are just for 10 minutes max. If longer frostbite is going to create problems.

As a matter of fact their boots are pretty soaked now. Don't know if they removed their boots and dried their feet and boots afterwards..


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## Ghost 125

Metal 0-1 said:


> They are if these guys are just for 10 minutes max. If longer frostbite is going to create problems.
> 
> As a matter of fact their boots are pretty soaked now. Don't know if they removed their boots and dried their feet and boots afterwards..


does'nt matter, its just a few inches of snow. snow or high altitude boots are usually used in FCNA. there too not everywhere and not at every place. they are heavy and makes the going difficult at lower altitudes and lesser snow.

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## Reichmarshal

Not a black stork but a regular ssg operative.


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## blain2

What the hell is a "Black Stork" commando? It is all made up nonsense by some idiots in Pakistan who keep regurgitating this idiocy without even understanding what the name means. SSG have never had the name "Black Storks" officially or unofficially. It is a rather unflattering name which in essence means "Kaala Bagla"! What awe does that evoke?

The name is simply Special Service Group. Nothing less, nothing more.

Also who in the hell would like to name the country's most specialized and elite forces after this scavenger?

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## PanzerKiel

blain2 said:


> What the hell is a "Black Stork" commando? It is all made up nonsense by some idiots in Pakistan who keep regurgitating this idiocy without even understanding what the name means. SSG have never had the name "Black Storks" officially or unofficially. It is a rather unflattering name which in essence means "Kaala Bagla"! What awe does that evoke?
> 
> The name is simply Special Service Group. Nothing less, nothing more.
> 
> Also who in the hell would like to name the country's most specialized and elite forces after this scavenger?



I was about to say the same thing.

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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> SSG Operator with US Army 1st Infantry Division two star officer.



This officer was on a foreign course once this Pic was taken.

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## Ghost 125

blain2 said:


> What the hell is a "Black Stork" commando? It is all made up nonsense by some idiots in Pakistan who keep regurgitating this idiocy without even understanding what the name means. SSG have never had the name "Black Storks" officially or unofficially. It is a rather unflattering name which in essence means "Kaala Bagla"! What awe does that evoke?
> 
> The name is simply Special Service Group. Nothing less, nothing more.
> 
> Also who in the hell would like to name the country's most specialized and elite forces after this scavenger?


wikipedia wal knowledge

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## bhola record

blain2 said:


> What the hell is a "Black Stork" commando? It is all made up nonsense by some idiots in Pakistan who keep regurgitating this idiocy without even understanding what the name means. SSG have never had the name "Black Storks" officially or unofficially. It is a rather unflattering name which in essence means "Kaala Bagla"! What awe does that evoke?
> 
> The name is simply Special Service Group. Nothing less, nothing more.
> 
> Also who in the hell would like to name the country's most specialized and elite forces after this scavenger?


I don't know some idiot says a russian officer named them that during their covert ops in Afghanistan but that story is straight up bull

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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram



This Pic is from active Ops.... Peak is above snowline that's why snow is there. Otherwise this specific area is not near FCNA etc.... It's from erstwhile FATA.... 

Arctic warfare equipment is worn under Siachen like conditions....

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## PanzerKiel



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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 662931


Don't want to be that person but, this is a repost. Sir

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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Don't want to be that person but, this is a repost. Sir



Apologies then. Didn't see it before on this forum.

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## Sifar zero



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## Sifar zero

This is the only picture where i saw our special forces having a camouflaged weapon so is it that rare or it is used frequently?


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## Vapour




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## Ghost 125

Sifar zero said:


> This is the only picture where i saw our special forces having a camouflaged weapon so is it that rare or it is used frequently?


not sure wthr that pic is of ssg, doubt it

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

1920s: ............. BRITISH ARMY CRESTS ON ROCKS AT CHERAT HILLS ...............

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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297957940800954369


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## Ghost 125

Vapour said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297957940800954369


sanitization is polite word for annexation of few heights

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## Vapour

Ghost 125 said:


> sanitization is polite word for annexation of few heights



Can the same be done along/across the LOC in sectors where we are weak?


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## valkyr_96

bhola record said:


> I don't know some idiot says a russian officer named them that during their covert ops in Afghanistan but that story is straight up bull


The Russian movie the 9th Company depicts one such incident. It can be seen from 4:27 onwards. I do remember this being discussed on PDF long time ago and I don't think there were any objections.






When the Battle for Hill 3234 concluded, the Soviet paratroopers founded that the Afghan mujaheddin actually wore the black uniforms with rectangular black-yellow-red stripes, and suspected to be Army Special Service Group personnel; Pakistan's government has officially denied their involvement. The American author, Aukai Collins, identified the elements as "Black Storks" who crossed the border to join the Afghan mujahideen – a claim also backed by American author, David Campbell.:60–61[23]


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## Ghost 125

Vapour said:


> Can the same be done along/across the LOC in sectors where we are weak?


certain quid pro quo targets are always selected by both sides in all sectors, some for physical raid/ occupation and some for fire raid/ interdiction... but that means the QPQ response will always come where own side is strong to deter the enemy from aggression where we are weak.

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## CriticalThought

PanzerKiel said:


> I was about to say the same thing.



In European folklore, the white stork delivers babies from the air. I always interpreted 'Black Storks' as those operatives who have been specially trained to hand deliver the nuclear baby. That would be a black day for the enemy indeed.


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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
ngl one of my favs

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## Vapour

Ghost 125 said:


> certain quid pro quo targets are always selected by both sides in all sectors, some for physical raid/ occupation and some for fire raid/ interdiction... but that means the QPQ response will always come where own side is strong to deter the enemy from aggression where we are weak.



I meant, rather than a retaliatory action, a very limited op to take a few ridges/heights to remove the dominating presence of the enemy - so that they can no longer target Pak posts at will and if in the future, there is approval for further incursion, it begins the enabling process for it.

Regarding your point about deterring the enemy from attacking your weak areas - that is logical, but wouldn't the enemy also follow the same logic of attacking where they are strong and the other side is weak?

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## Ghost 125

Vapour said:


> I meant, rather than a retaliatory action, a very limited op to take a few ridges/heights to remove the dominating presence of the enemy - so that they can no longer target Pak posts at will and if in the future, there is approval for further incursion, it begins the enabling process for it.
> 
> Regarding your point about deterring the enemy from attacking your weak areas - that is logical, but wouldn't the enemy also follow the same logic of attacking where they are strong and the other side is weak?


we tried that in kargil, now after ceasefire of 2003, situation has changed. any attempt of capturing their territory or the same by them will escalate quickly. India is not a weak country militarily. and yes they ve similar plans thats why both sides mostly resort to cross border small arm, mortar and Artillery fire. unlike Afghan border, the whole LOC is heavily militirized and their are no gaps between posts.

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## Metal 0-1

Sifar zero said:


> View attachment 663094
> View attachment 663095


Not our Guy in the first picture. He is probably from US MARSOC or maybe ANSF.

He is wearing a M-81 BDU with shoulder pockets which is a NATO thing.

Pakistani BDUs don't have shoulder pockets.

Camouflaged weapon.
The way he organise his vest. Like TQ on the vest NATO SOF mostly do this thing.
Trijicon ACOG, no one in Pakistan Military use a 1000$ optic.

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## Vapour

Ghost 125 said:


> we tried that in kargil, now after ceasefire of 2003, situation has changed. any attempt of capturing their territory or the same by them will escalate quickly. India is not a weak country militarily. and yes they ve similar plans thats why both sides mostly resort to cross border small arm, mortar and Artillery fire. unlike Afghan border, the whole LOC is heavily militirized and their are no gaps between posts.



Understood, but wasn't Kargil a full blown affair? I don't know to what extent things escalated to, but as far I'm aware, post-Feb 27th LY, ground situation along LOC escalated for a good few months. I can't comment on the veracity of the visual in the tweet below, but if true, it clearly shows that at least the other side did show some initiative:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1109713948079726592


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## Ghost 125

Vapour said:


> Understood, but wasn't Kargil a full blown affair? I don't know to what extent things escalated to, but as far I'm aware, post-Feb 27th LY, ground situation along LOC escalated for a good few months. I can't comment on the veracity of the visual in the tweet below, but if true, it clearly shows that at least the other side did show some initiative:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1109713948079726592


it escalated yes but nothing happened, cross border fire intensified for a while troops were moved to forward locations and remained thr for few months. no operations were carried out by either side against any post/ ground feature, anywhere along the border or LOC. 
the video shows exactly that, a mortar/ Artillery or ATGM/ RR strike on a bunker. same happens to indian posts all the time.

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## Metal 0-1

Vapour said:


> Understood, but wasn't Kargil a full blown affair? I don't know to what extent things escalated to, but as far I'm aware, post-Feb 27th LY, ground situation along LOC escalated for a good few months. I can't comment on the veracity of the visual in the tweet below, but if true, it clearly shows that at least the other side did show some initiative:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1109713948079726592


Or maybe maybe wind is blowing in opposite direction...


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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## Sifar zero

bhola record said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


Finally a nice helmet.

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## Metal 0-1

Sifar zero said:


> Finally a nice helmet.


That helmet belongs to Saudi Special Forces.

This is from a joint exercise.


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## Sunny4pak

*Special Forces of Pakistan | Death Before Disgrace*


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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram



Am using this TI sight (AN/PAS-13e) on my Type 56-2. Started using this sight in 2013. Excellent sight, made for multiple weapons such as SSR such as SSG-69, HSRs such as RPA 50 cal, MG3 and HMGs. Modes incl zooms, white/ black hot, target reticle for all previously mentioned weapons, made for for day / night operation. Excellent piece of equipment overall.

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> Am using this TI sight (AN/PAS-13e) on my Type 56-2. Started using this sight in 2013. Excellent sight, made for multiple weapons such as SSR such as SSG-69, HSRs such as RPA 50 cal, MG3 and HMGs. Modes incl zooms, white/ black hot, target reticle for all previously mentioned weapons, made for for day / night operation. Excellent piece of equipment overall.


Saw this on SSG's R700 AI Chasis and Barret in single picture...

Plus a M-4A1

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> Am using this TI sight (AN/PAS-13e) on my Type 56-2. Started using this sight in 2013. Excellent sight, made for multiple weapons such as SSR such as SSG-69, HSRs such as RPA 50 cal, MG3 and HMGs. Modes incl zooms, white/ black hot, target reticle for all previously mentioned weapons, made for for day / night operation. Excellent piece of equipment overall.


can you show me the piece if you don't mind?

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## PanzerKiel



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## Ghost 125

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 665385


inspired from "generation kill"

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 665385





Were you comfortable using this, regarding your eye relief? Using EO-Techs and Aimpoints up front is not an issue but a scope should be back the dust cover..

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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> I really hate these stocks, that's a separate issue.
> 
> Were you comfortable using this, regarding your eye relief? Using EO-Techs and Aimpoints is not an issue but a scope should be back the dust cover..



Not an issue my case, with the bipod open it isn't an issue at all.

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> Not an issue my case, with the bipod open it isn't an issue at all.



P.S a decent setup. Running a single point sling. Fore grip.
And What's with your rifle's dust cover and charging handle?


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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> P.S a decent setup. Running a single point sling. Fore grip.
> And What's with your rifle's dust cover and charging handle?



What's a dust cover and charging handle?

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> What's a dust cover and charging handle?








See number 5 label


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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> View attachment 665421
> 
> 
> See number 5 label
> View attachment 665422



Actually, their military names are different. 

Anyways..... With regard to your question

They are in their original form.

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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
Parade commando style

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## Metal 0-1

Again I am gonna pitch for *low priced* optics which *don't suck.* 
SSG and SSG-N use EO-Tech's and Aimpoints Comp M2, M4.
SSW use EO-Techs, Aimpoint Red dots and Eo-techs with magnifiers. 

All these Optic setups offer ranging up to 200 yards except SSW's EO-Techs with Magnifiers which provide a range of 300 yards.

So, I am going to mention two optics which are at relative low priced and don't break on you. 

*First One Is:*

*Primary Arms SLx 1-6x24mm FFP Rifle Scope - Illuminated ACSS-RAPTOR-5.56/.308 ( $399.99 ).*









Primary Arms SLx 1-6x24mm FFP Rifle Scope - Illuminated ACSS-RAPTOR-5.56/.308


DetailsAfter rigorous field testing, this optic has been given a Gold-tier rating by the National Tactical Officers Association.The SLx optics are the heart of our lineup. The trusted optics that have built our reputation through the years. Although many SLx optics will be familiar to Primary...




www.primaryarms.com










This optic will help SSG/SSG-N/SSW personnel to engage targets from 500 yards to 600 yards. 
These two are review videos from a active duty USAF TACP.





*Notes:
-> ACSS reticle is better.
-> Good Eye Relief and Sight picture.
-> Glass quality is good.
-> Aluminum frame.*
*Torture Test:*





*Notes:
-> Platform used is SCAR H-, which is famous for breaking optics because of it strong concussions. 
-> Throwing on flat ground doesn't break any thing and zero was not effected.
-> Throwing on rocks twice resulted in small dent on frame, but glass did'n break. Zero shifted but re-zeroed and worked like it was working before.(Which is a standard of pretty much every expensive optic)
-> Laser throw shifted zero but re-zeroed and worked fine.*


*Second One:
Primary Arms GLx 2X Prism with ACSS CQB-M5 5.56/.308/5.45 Reticle ( $369.99 )*









Primary Arms GLx 2X Prism with ACSS CQB-M5 5.56/.308/5.45 Reticle


DetailsAfter rigorous field testing, this optic has been given a Silver-tier rating by the National Tactical Officers Association.The GLx rifle scopes redefine what can be accomplished when the latest optics technology is applied to meet the shooting challenges faced in real world situations...




www.primaryarms.com




*



*
*Review Video:*





*Other Option is magnifiers which can be used with Aimpoints and EO-Techs holographic sights which can be easily flipped in and out*.

*Examples are*:
*Primary Arms 3X LER Red Dot Magnifier Gen IV(99.9$)





Eo-tech g30 magnifier (299.9$)



*


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## Kompromat

Completely useless setup. The TIS would be destroyed. 



PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 665385


----------



## PanzerKiel

Horus said:


> Completely useless setup. The TIS would be destroyed.



Maybe, but in my case it helped me alot in getting rid of many bad guys at ranges of 400-600 meters.

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## Kompromat

I have spent some time with this TIS. Its highly robust for night ops. But i think it should only be used with M-4 not AK. The AK becomes too front heavy and electronics of the sight suffer savage recoil.

At 4-500m it would be like shooting rabbits with this sight. The blood looks like paint 



PanzerKiel said:


> Maybe, but in my case it helped me alot in getting rid of many bad guys at ranges of 400-600 meters.

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## PanzerKiel

Horus said:


> I have spent some time with this TIS. Its highly robust for night ops. But i think it should only be used with M-4 not AK. The AK becomes too front heavy and electronics of the sight suffer savage recoil.



Exactly, thts why i always use, even today, with the front end resting on a bipod.....the fore-grip opens up into a bipod.

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## Kompromat

Experiments with AZB DMR equipped with TIS, bipod and M-118LR have been encouraging, even at medium ranges, i.e. 800m. This setup bridges most problems you would encounter in low light engagements. 



PanzerKiel said:


> Exactly, thts why i always use, even today, with the front end resting on a bipod.....the fore-grip opens up into a bipod.

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## Vapour

Believe this video is relevant to the thread.

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## Metal 0-1

Good video but not relevant.
if it was related to SOF than its relevant..


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## Vapour

Metal 0-1 said:


> Good video but not relevant.
> if it was related to SOF than its relevant..



The personnel depicted in the video may not be relevant, but the military action?


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## truthfollower

PanzerKiel said:


> Maybe, but in my case it helped me alot in getting rid of many bad guys at ranges of 400-600 meters.


you have killed people in real?

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## blain2

Metal 0-1 said:


> P.S a decent setup. Running a single point sling. Fore grip.
> And What's with your rifle's dust cover and charging handle?


Its pretty standard dust cover for a Chinese Type-56. The charging handle is interchangeably referred to as the "bolt" generally but both are standard ones.


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## bhola record

truthfollower said:


> you have killed people in real?


Even good guys do bad things.


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## Waterboy

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 665385







This was the setup my brother was running in the ops area. SSG guy who got RTU set it up for him.

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## bhola record

Considering the current circumstances will dhruzba 2020 take place?


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## Metal 0-1

Vapour said:


> The personnel depicted in the video may not be relevant, but the military action?


Special Forces?


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## Metal 0-1

Waterboy said:


> View attachment 666715
> 
> This was the setup my brother was running in the ops area. SSG guy who got RTU set it up for him.


Where is practicality?

Why two optics? Unless you're running a magnifier for Aimpoint..

Rear optic is sitting higher up. Aimpoint at front is pretty much useless.

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## PanzerKiel

truthfollower said:


> you have killed people in real?



dear, terrorists aren't getting killed from Corona or something.

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## PanzerKiel

truthfollower said:


> you have killed people in real?



Militants don't go by themselves. They have to be taken care of.

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> Militants don't go by themselves. They have to be taken care of.


 what is it like combat?


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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> what is it like combat?




... At least it's much less lethal than a siblings fight.

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> ... At least it's much less lethal than a siblings fight.


Ah things we had to do for the custody of the TV remote

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## Metal 0-1

bhola record said:


> what is it like combat?


Most of the Time its like this

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## bhola record

Metal 0-1 said:


> Most of the Time its like this


you should see the movie restrepo such a realistic combat movie


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## Kompromat

Waterboy said:


> View attachment 666715
> 
> This was the setup my brother was running in the ops area. SSG guy who got RTU set it up for him.



Very nice setup for a rifle we should get rid of soon.

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## Metal 0-1

bhola record said:


> you should see the movie restrepo such a realistic combat movie


On my pending list. Will do after some stuff I have to take care of.


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## Vapour

Metal 0-1 said:


> Special Forces?



Such raids are usually conducted by special forces as far as I'm aware.


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## Metal 0-1

Vapour said:


> Such raids are usually conducted by special forces as far as I'm aware.


You didn't get my point this thread is a discussion thread of only Special Forces. What you posted was irrelevant stuff.


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## Vapour

Metal 0-1 said:


> You didn't get my point this thread is a discussion thread of only Special Forces. What you posted was irrelevant stuff.



I respect your opinion, but I believe I have made it clear why I think it is relevant to this thread.


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## truthfollower

PanzerKiel said:


> dear, terrorists aren't getting killed from Corona or something.





PanzerKiel said:


> Militants don't go by themselves. They have to be taken care of.


To be honest i cant even look at chicken getting slaughtered when i go buy meat. So, thank you for taking care of terrorist for us and we here enjoy peaceful life and don't have to worry about them anymore.

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## In arduis fidelis

Metal 0-1 said:


> Pakistani BDUs don't have shoulder pockets.


They do actually


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## Metal 0-1

In arduis fidelis said:


> They do actually


They don't have them.
This is SSG BDU






Where do you see a shoulder pocket?

Yes, combat shirts have shoulder pockets. Like the one he is wearing..





*Don't confuse yourself with BDU and Combat shirt...*

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## Metal 0-1



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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel



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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 668370


Don't think thats our guy..

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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Don't think thats our guy..


Your call.

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## bhola record

what year are these pics from?


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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> Your call.


Yup 
Trijicon ACOG, MICH helmet, Wilcox helmet mount. 
Yes its my call.

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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> what year are these pics from?


More than a decade ago. A bit old.

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> More than a decade ago. A bit old.


ops area?

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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> ops area?


yeah

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## Vapour

How much does lack of modern equipment/gear matter when special forces conduct an op against militants vs against conventional forces - maybe wrong but SSG don't seem to vary it too much?

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## PanzerKiel

Vapour said:


> How much does lack of modern equipment/gear matter when special forces conduct an op against militants vs against conventional forces - maybe wrong but SSG don't seem to vary it too much?



Their night fighting capability makes most of the difference.

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## Vapour

PanzerKiel said:


> Their night fighting capability makes most of the difference.



Don't really have the knowledge to expand on this but imagine it's primarily NVGs and TI sights?

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## PanzerKiel

Vapour said:


> Don't really have the knowledge to expand on this but imagine it's primarily NVGs and TI sights?


Apart from these....movement, action, observation, comms, field craft...

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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel



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## Vapour

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 668387



NBC suits?


----------



## Ghost 125

Vapour said:


> NBC suits?


just gas masks

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## Vapour

Not sure if from ISPR or not.

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## PanzerKiel



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## Metal 0-1

Vapour said:


> Not sure if from ISPR or not.


Thats from movie "LAAL".

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## bhola record

Will pakistan russia SF exercies happen this year?


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## Ahmet Pasha

bhola record said:


> Will pakistan russia SF exercies happen this year?


Masti kar rea hain???

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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## Metal 0-1

SSW deployed at Qadri AFB, Sakardu..


bhola record said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## bhola record

Metal 0-1 said:


> SSW deployed at Qadri AFB, Sakardu..


wow how did you figure that out?xd


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## Khan_patriot

Metal 0-1 said:


> Lets see.
> Older MICH 2001 helmet (Not a big issue).
> 
> Old school comtac headset(Not a Modern two way Peltor headset).
> 
> Plate carriers(Only limited to some Battalions and Coy like Powindah's and Zarrar. In Navy case some of them have these nice cyote brown plate carriers).
> 
> Combat boots still old school some still use old leather boots.
> 
> Ancient PVS-7s in abundance. PVS-14s single tube NVGs in small amount and it feels like looking through a toilet paper roll tube. Only one double tube NVG PVS-15 I have seen so far is in use by Air Force Ground Combateers..
> 
> Oolder block of M-4 I suspect barrel is still the same. Not reasonable upgrade. Like optics, Extended rail system, suppressors etc...
> 
> Lack of IFAKS. I suspect that not everyone carry even a tourniquet with them.
> 
> Lacking IR strobes.
> 
> IR chem lights.
> 
> GPS at least for team leader.


Do not talk about things you don't understand, judging by your post yiu have some knowledge about gear but almost non existent knowledge about an SSG operators load out. Try researching more before claiming things like these guys don't even have IFAKs or cheap basic stuff like IR strobes, or chem lights. This is not some FC wing you are talking about, this is SSG.

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## Metal 0-1

Alright mate. That's true they have this cheap equipment. Do everybody have it no.

Only Zarrar and Powinda's are equipped with stuff. All other are somewhat look like regular infantry.

What's your answer to this?
Older MICH 2001 helmet (Not a big issue).

Old school comtac headset(Not a Modern two way Peltor headset).

Plate carriers(Only limited to some Battalions and Coy like Powindah's and Zarrar. In Navy case some of them have these nice cyote brown plate carriers).

Combat boots still old school some still use old leather boots.

Ancient PVS-7s in abundance. PVS-14s single tube NVGs in small amount and it feels like looking through a toilet paper roll tube. Only one double tube NVG PVS-15 I have seen so far is in use by Air Force Ground Combateers..

Oolder block of M-4 I suspect barrel is still the same. Not reasonable upgrade. Like optics, Extended rail system, suppressors etc...

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## Metal 0-1

bhola record said:


> wow how did you figure that out?xd


Easy peasy.
That AFB is Sakardu you can tell that from mountains and PIA aircraft indicates an airfield which is used for civilian aircraft as well. That's all I need,


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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> Will pakistan russia SF exercies happen this year?


Yes.

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## Shadeslayer

Regarding the joining of SSG, can officers from any branch join the cadre? Like Medical corps, education corps, etc?


----------



## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> Yes.


prevoskhodno


----------



## bhola record

Shadeslayer said:


> Regarding the joining of SSG, can officers from any branch join the cadre? Like Medical corps, education corps, etc?


only fighting arms according to m knowledge

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## Khan_patriot

Metal 0-1 said:


> Not our Guy in the first picture. He is probably from US MARSOC or maybe ANSF.
> 
> He is wearing a M-81 BDU with shoulder pockets which is a NATO thing.
> 
> Pakistani BDUs don't have shoulder pockets.
> 
> Camouflaged weapon.
> The way he organise his vest. Like TQ on the vest NATO SOF mostly do this thing.
> Trijicon ACOG, no one in Pakistan Military use a 1000$ optic.





Metal 0-1 said:


> Alright mate. That's true they have this cheap equipment. Do everybody have it no.
> 
> Only Zarrar and Powinda's are equipped with stuff. All other are somewhat look like regular infantry.
> 
> What's your answer to this?
> Older MICH 2001 helmet (Not a big issue).
> 
> Old school comtac headset(Not a Modern two way Peltor headset).
> 
> Plate carriers(Only limited to some Battalions and Coy like Powindah's and Zarrar. In Navy case some of them have these nice cyote brown plate carriers).
> 
> Combat boots still old school some still use old leather boots.
> 
> Ancient PVS-7s in abundance. PVS-14s single tube NVGs in small amount and it feels like looking through a toilet paper roll tube. Only one double tube NVG PVS-15 I have seen so far is in use by Air Force Ground Combateers..
> 
> Oolder block of M-4 I suspect barrel is still the same. Not reasonable upgrade. Like optics, Extended rail system, suppressors etc...


The fact that you refer to Pownindas as some sort of specialist coy or unit on the lines of ZATU shows me that you have very limited knowledge about SSG, it's gear, organisation and personnel. Learn to have a slice of the humble pie and look into stuff instead of acting like some sort of SME on all things SF. Look we may not have gear on the same standards as NATO SF but assuming they are absolute amateurs is just plain stupid look at their track record they make do with what they have and they've pulled off military miracles.

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## PanzerKiel

Shadeslayer said:


> Regarding the joining of SSG, can officers from any branch join the cadre? Like Medical corps, education corps, etc?


Not AMC and AEC. Rest normal regular arms.... Their officers can join.

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> Not AMC and AEC. Rest normal regular arms.... Their officers can join.


signals too?

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## Metal 0-1

Khan_patriot said:


> The fact that you refer to Pownindas as some sort of specialist coy or unit on the lines of ZATU shows me that you have very limited knowledge about SSG, it's gear, organisation and personnel. Learn to have a slice of the humble pie and look into stuff instead of acting like some sort of SME on all things SF. Look we may not have gear on the same standards as NATO SF but assuming they are absolute amateurs is just plain stupid look at their track record they make do with what they have and they've pulled off military miracles.


I never said No.3 Cdo Batt. is Coy alright. I have done my research. I know about Zarrar ATU that they are Coy under the umbrella of SSG. 

I know about their role how they are structured. You are not the only smart in this room.


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## Khan_patriot

Metal 0-1 said:


> I never said No.3 Cdo Batt. is Coy alright. I have done my research. I know about Zarrar ATU that they are Coy under the umbrella of SSG.
> 
> I know about their role how they are structured. You are not the only smart in this room.


I never said I was smart or you were wrong, just that you comparing all of SSG less Powindas and ZATU to complete amateurs like ANSF is ridiculous. I wish I could get into the details you asked for but I neither have the desire or the inclination to debate with someone who is an Army brat or a freshly passed out 2/ Lt or something who thinks he is high speed just because he watched some youtube gear reviews and can regurgitate data off of Wikipedia or the rest of the Internet.
Anyways good day.
Jiye SSG

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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> signals too?


Yes.

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## PanzerKiel

Khan_patriot said:


> I never said I was smart or you were wrong, just that you comparing all of SSG less Powindas and ZATU to complete amateurs like ANSF is ridiculous. I wish I could get into the details you asked for but I neither have the desire or the inclination to debate with someone who is an Army brat or a freshly passed out 2/ Lt or something who thinks he is high speed just because he watched some youtube gear reviews and can regurgitate data off of Wikipedia or the rest of the Internet.
> Anyways good day.
> Jiye SSG


Bhai, thanday rahiye.

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## Metal 0-1

Sifar zero said:


>





Khan_patriot said:


> The fact that you refer to Pownindas as some sort of specialist coy or unit on the lines of ZATU shows me that you have very limited knowledge about SSG, it's gear, organisation and personnel. Learn to have a slice of the humble pie and look into stuff instead of acting like some sort of SME on all things SF. Look we may not have gear on the same standards as NATO SF but assuming they are absolute amateurs is just plain stupid look at their track record they make do with what they have and they've pulled off military miracles.


And again he is not our guy. He member of Afghan National Defense Force Commando

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## PanzerKiel

Khan_patriot said:


> I never said I was smart or you were wrong, just that you comparing all of SSG less Powindas and ZATU to complete amateurs like ANSF is ridiculous. I wish I could get into the details you asked for but I neither have the desire or the inclination to debate with someone who is an Army brat or a freshly passed out 2/ Lt or something who thinks he is high speed just because he watched some youtube gear reviews and can regurgitate data off of Wikipedia or the rest of the Internet.
> Anyways good day.
> Jiye SSG


Hamza dear, stay cool....

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## Metal 0-1

Khan_patriot said:


> mparing all of SSG less Powindas and ZATU to complete amateurs like ANSF is ridiculous


I never did. 
I just pointed out he is not our guy. Our SSG don't wear NATO donated old M81 BDUs. I just said looking from his equipment he is from Afghan forces. 
Afghan's have good equipment because ISAF donated them.



Khan_patriot said:


> someone who is an Army brat or a freshly passed out 2/ Lt or something who thinks he is high speed just because he watched some youtube gear reviews and can regurgitate data off of Wikipedia or the rest of the Internet.


I am not one of these guys either.

Have a nice day Sir...


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## bhola record

I love the fact you too are fighting so passionatley for something that doesn't even matter chill buddies

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## bhola record

@PanzerKiel Can you spend more time in SSG than normal assigned period of 5 years ???


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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> I love the fact you too are fighting so passionatley for something that doesn't even matter chill buddies


The quarrel of lovers is the renewal of love.

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## Khan_patriot

PanzerKiel said:


> Hamza dear, stay cool....


Who is he? You must be confusing me with someone else.

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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> @PanzerKiel Can you spend more time in SSG than normal assigned period of 5 years ???


A buddy of mine tells me very proudly that he is serving in the SSG for the past decade almost....... So yes, it happens.... Provided you are qualifying the mandatory physical tests etc and provided there are slots available.....

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## PanzerKiel

Khan_patriot said:


> Who is he? You must be confusing me with someone else.


Oh sorry dear, in that case do please accept my sincerest apologies.

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## Metal 0-1

One of the most iconic pictures.

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## Vapour

Reichmarshal said:


> Special request to the mods and posters plz be extra carefull while posting pics of service personal as the armed forces have gone extremely strict on any material/ pics posted on social media.
> To the extent that the CGS has warned the personal could even be handed "LOT" within 24 hrs and sent packing.
> 
> So plz be careful.



Imagine this doesn't apply to posting media released by ISPR?


----------



## Metal 0-1

Vapour said:


> Imagine this doesn't apply to posting media released by ISPR?


There is difference between vetted media and some personal material being posted on social media.


----------



## bhola record

Reichmarshal said:


> Special request to the mods and posters plz be extra carefull while posting pics of service personal as the armed forces have gone extremely strict on any material/ pics posted on social media.
> To the extent that the CGS has warned the personal could even be handed "LOT" within 24 hrs and sent packing.
> 
> So plz be careful.


What is LOT??


----------



## Metal 0-1

bhola record said:


> What is LOT??


Letter of Termination


----------



## Vapour

Metal 0-1 said:


> There is difference between vetted media and some personal material being posted on social media.



There's been plenty of ISPR media of uncovered faces of special forces personnel.

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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> What is LOT??


Letter of Thanks.

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## Metal 0-1

Vapour said:


> There's been plenty of ISPR media of uncovered faces of special forces personnel.


Yeah you are right. But they know which operator face needs to hidden and which operator face doesn't matter.

For example take this show as an example.




From start to 20:00 we can see trainees faces but we don't know their names except Maj. Abid.
Then Masked operators come in. After the snipers part at 28:25 again masked men come in. After we see a instructor with a mask on explaining about M-4.

Most recent example is this;




\You have can see at multiple instances with operators Masked On/Off so they they make sure you can't find the identity of these operators.

*But I am with you they everyone should wear a mask if not make footage from an angle from where we can't see their faces.*

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## PanzerKiel

Vapour said:


> There's been plenty of ISPR media of uncovered faces of special forces personnel.


Due to some obvious reasons related to the environment of our country in which generally SSG operates and the operations they do, masks are generally not resorted to.

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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
The oath

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## bhola record

Ex GOC SSG MAJ GEN BHUTTA

        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## Metal 0-1

bhola record said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
> sorry if repost


I am afraid it is a repost.


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## PanzerKiel

Screen grab

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 669146
> 
> Screen grab


From 2016 Druzhba. SSG officer checking AS VAL from Russian inventory..

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## PanzerKiel

PanzerKiel said:


> Letter of Thanks.


It's the real abbreviation. 
@PakFactor @shadowdragon

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## bhola record

Does any one know what personality or mindset special forces recruiters look for?


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## Ghost 125

bhola record said:


> Does any one know what personality or mindset special forces recruiters look for?


the one who can endure it to the end...


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## Metal 0-1

bhola record said:


> Does any one know what personality or mindset special forces recruiters look for?


*Simple Trick, Don't Quit*


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## bhola record

Metal 0-1 said:


> *Simple Trick, Don't Quit*


sometimes one simple step is the hardest thing ever


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## Metal 0-1

bhola record said:


> sometimes one simple step is the hardest thing ever


You'll know your boundaries.

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## PanzerKiel



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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 670986


why doesn't SSG have any nishan e haider?


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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> why doesn't SSG have any nishan e haider?


Nature of their operations is such, thats why, otherwise there were and are many deserving.

Awarding a medal requires a citation having details of events, which cannot be obviously be divulged.

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## Vapour

PanzerKiel said:


> Nature of their operations is such, thats why, otherwise there were and are many deserving.
> 
> Awarding a medal requires a citation having details of events, which cannot be obviously be divulged.



Surely not everything is classified as such that it cannot be mentioned after the fact it has occurred, otherwise there would be no medals awarded to a SSG personnel. For example, looking at an Indian example:

Captain Abhay Sharma, SM was the party commander tasked to undertake patrolling against enemy Border Action Team along Line of Control in Jammu district of Jammu and Kashmir. On 21 April 2018, Captain Abhay Sharma, SM led a patrol along the Line of Control. At 1.10 pm, his own patrol spotted movement of 10 uniformed enemy personnel carrying weapons and moving towards own post Spur Forward. He quickly deployed his party in two locations and at opportune time he along with his buddy opened fire and neutralised two enemy personnel. Displaying exceptional battle craft, he provided cover fire enabling his buddy to disengage and move to safety. Thereafter, displaying exemplary junior leadership he crawled under support fire of his buddy and shot down another enemy regular at close range. Once under effective fire from enemy posts, he sensed grave danger to entire party and directed fire of five C-90s and destroyed three bunkers. Exhibiting composure and exceptional tactical acumen under heavy enemy fire, he successfully executed the ambush, destroyed three bunkers, recovered enemy weapon and ensured safe extrication without any casualty.


For displaying conspicuous gallantry, unmatched professionalism and resolute leadership in face of enemy, Captain Abhay Sharma, SM has been awarded the “Shaurya Chakra”.









The courageous acts of 12 valorous Indian Army men who have been awarded top honours | India News - Times of India


India News: The Ashok Chakra was announced for Lance Naik Nazir Ahmad Wani, Bar to Sena Medal posthumously. He belonged to the Jammu and Kashmir Light infananty/3




www.google.com





I don't know to what extent, any of the above is true, but for argument's sake, assume it is, surely PA would have retaliated to this but why would such an action not be allowed to be mentioned in the public domain or even recommended for a medal?


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## PanzerKiel

Vapour said:


> Surely not everything is classified as such that it cannot be mentioned after the fact it has occurred, otherwise there would be no medals awarded to a SSG personnel. For example, looking at an Indian example:
> 
> Captain Abhay Sharma, SM was the party commander tasked to undertake patrolling against enemy Border Action Team along Line of Control in Jammu district of Jammu and Kashmir. On 21 April 2018, Captain Abhay Sharma, SM led a patrol along the Line of Control. At 1.10 pm, his own patrol spotted movement of 10 uniformed enemy personnel carrying weapons and moving towards own post Spur Forward. He quickly deployed his party in two locations and at opportune time he along with his buddy opened fire and neutralised two enemy personnel. Displaying exceptional battle craft, he provided cover fire enabling his buddy to disengage and move to safety. Thereafter, displaying exemplary junior leadership he crawled under support fire of his buddy and shot down another enemy regular at close range. Once under effective fire from enemy posts, he sensed grave danger to entire party and directed fire of five C-90s and destroyed three bunkers. Exhibiting composure and exceptional tactical acumen under heavy enemy fire, he successfully executed the ambush, destroyed three bunkers, recovered enemy weapon and ensured safe extrication without any casualty.
> 
> 
> For displaying conspicuous gallantry, unmatched professionalism and resolute leadership in face of enemy, Captain Abhay Sharma, SM has been awarded the “Shaurya Chakra”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The courageous acts of 12 valorous Indian Army men who have been awarded top honours | India News - Times of India
> 
> 
> India News: The Ashok Chakra was announced for Lance Naik Nazir Ahmad Wani, Bar to Sena Medal posthumously. He belonged to the Jammu and Kashmir Light infananty/3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know to what extent, any of the above is true, but for argument's sake, assume it is, surely PA would have retaliated to this but why would such an action not be allowed to be mentioned in the public domain or even recommended for a medal?


Your example is of internal security domain, which can be cited as well. Intelligence based operations seldom can be cited.

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## PDF

PanzerKiel said:


> Nature of their operations is such, thats why, otherwise there were and are many deserving.
> 
> Awarding a medal requires a citation having details of events, which cannot be obviously be divulged.


I presume British SAS and USSOCOM deployed field operatives also do not get top of the line medals too due to OPSEC then?

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## Vapour

PanzerKiel said:


> Your example is of internal security domain, which can be cited as well. Intelligence based operations seldom can be cited.





PanzerKiel said:


> Your example is of internal security domain, which can be cited as well. Intelligence based operations seldom can be cited.



Noted, regarding your point of the usual nature of SSG ops being classified (IBOs). Might sound like I'm reiterating the point, but surely more of what PA and specifically the SSG does along the LOC, in a similar manner to the example in previous post can be publicized and awarded for their courage and skill against the traditional enemy? 

I can't find any article on the citation for our brave shaheed who got martyred after downing 12 IA soldiers when the 'surgical strikes' happened. But there should be more limelight on the PA manning the LOC, outside of awards ceremonies too, the job they do thwarting a much larger enemy, with much more resources and at a physically advantageous location for the most part, deserves greater recognition.

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## blain2

SSG troops have been recommended for NH. The example of Capt Muhammad Iqbal Khan, ASC, SSG (HJ) is one. He was recommended for NH but the criteria applied resulted in him being awarded the second highest gallantry award.

I think it is fair to suggest that the scrutiny applied to the award of NH is sometimes as such that if there aren't enough sources to corroborate the actions and impact of the action taken by someone, specially in the special forces missions, it results in them being not recommended. There is a pretty decent amount of coverage on the topic of gallantry awards in the official SSG history.

Lastly, NH is only awarded posthumously. This negates a lot of actions worthy of NH because the officer/jawan was not KIA. This isn't the case in most other parts of the world with their highest gallantry award.

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## Vapour

blain2 said:


> SSG troops have been recommended for NH. The example of Capt Muhammad Iqbal Khan, ASC, SSG (HJ) is one. He was recommended for NH but the criteria applied resulted in him being awarded the second highest gallantry award.
> 
> I think it is fair to suggest that the scrutiny applied to the award of NH is sometimes as such where there aren't enough sources to corroborate the actions and impact of the action taken by someone, specially in the special forces missions, resulting in them not being recommended. There is a pretty decent amount of coverage on the topic of gallantry awards in the official SSG history.
> 
> Lastly, NH is only awarded posthumously. This negates a lot of actions worthy of NH because the officer/jawan was not KIA. This isn't the case in most other parts of the world with their highest gallantry award.



Such tales of courage and indomitable will need to be told and not hidden IMO. Simply producing documentaries, shows, even just media coverage on them is essential to raise awareness amongst the wider public. Granted to the soldier, gallantry awards and attaining the respect of his unit/peers will be paramount, but if the op is not classified or enough time has lapsed as such that it can be told - making a programme on successful actions will gain positivity from the public and reduce the effect any agendas will have on attempts at maligning PA.

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## Metal 0-1

PDF said:


> I presume British SAS and USSOCOM deployed field operatives also do not get top of the line medals too due to OPSEC then?


Actually they do.

Remember the SAS operator in Kenya. His name is Christian Craighead he revealed his identity after his time.
He was awarded with second highest award.

In Battle of Mogadishu two delta operators M.Sgt Gary Gordon and Sgt 1st Class Randy Shugart who lost their lives were awarded Medal of Honor.

Most recently Delta operator Thomas T. Payne is awarded Medal of Honor due to his action in Syria.

You can search their names.

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## PanzerKiel

ZATU visit

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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel



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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 671325


By the current GOC?


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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> By the current GOC?


Nopes, a bit old.

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## PanzerKiel



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## Kompromat

SSG should adopt facepaint camouflage to maintain PERSEC

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## Ghost 125

Horus said:


> SSG should adopt facepaint camouflage to maintain PERSEC


IMO it really isnt necessary, unless someone is required to carryout covert ops in a foreign country (which most of them are not). internet is full of pics with uncovered faces of US SEALS, Green barrets, Deltas, SAS, SBS, PARA SF. 
in fact most of the time soldiers cover their faces just for protection from environmental hazards.

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## PanzerKiel



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## Metal 0-1

Mostly Retired or KIA. Not active personnel.


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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 671411


Light Commando Battalion.


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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Light Commando Battalion.


Both....SSG and LCB.

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## Ghost 125

Metal 0-1 said:


> Mostly Retired or KIA. Not active personnel.


thats not true

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## PanzerKiel

Ghost 125 said:


> thats not true


You are right dear.


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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel

PTS, 1976

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## Metal 0-1

Ghost 125 said:


> thats not true


Actually that's truth.

Find me active duty uncensored Special Forces pictures.

This video of SBS is from 2001 their identity is still a mystery.


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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Actually that's truth.
> 
> Find me active duty uncensored Special Forces pictures.


I've got loads of them.

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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Actually that's truth.
> 
> Find me active duty uncensored Special Forces pictures.
> 
> This video of SBS is from 2001 their identity is still a mystery.


If you are referring to SF pictures of foreign countries then you are right to a great extent.

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## PanzerKiel



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## Vapour

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 671411



What are the troops in the background doing?


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## PanzerKiel

Vapour said:


> What are the troops in the background doing?


...last moments before an op.....2017-ish....combined op of army / SSG / LCB / FC.

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> If you are referring to SF pictures of foreign countries then you are right to a great extent.


Actually I was..

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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Actually I was..


Apologies then.


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## Metal 0-1

Ghost 125 said:


> in fact most of the time soldiers cover their faces just for protection from environmental hazards.


gave me a good chuckle.

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> Apologies then.


Not a big thing to very about...

Just same s**t different day..


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## Ghost 125

PanzerKiel said:


> If you are referring to SF pictures of foreign countries then you are right to a great extent.


i ve hundreads of such pics but i really dont want to get into a useless argument in this forum.

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## Ghost 125

Metal 0-1 said:


> gave me a good chuckle.


you dont have to agree but i know what i am saying..mostly its for protection from sand, snow, wind, sun etc

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## Metal 0-1

Ghost 125 said:


> you dont have to agree but i know what i am saying..mostly its for protection from sand, snow, wind, sun etc


Plus their identity...


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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Plus their identity...


Dear, @Ghost 125 knows his stuff. He's been one of them.

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> Dear, @Ghost 125 knows his stuff. He's been one of them.


He would be but....
I am wondering from what kind of snow and sun they are protecting their face from..





*
Note: Just flaming, No hard feelings*

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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> He would be but....
> I am wondering from what kind of snow and sun they are protecting their face from..
> View attachment 671477
> 
> 
> *Note: Just flaming, No hard feelings*


No problem dear....

However in this specific Pic, it's for camouflaging the bright facial skin instead of hiding their identity....

I mean, ZATU guys, why would they like to hide their faces from the very terrorists they are about to eliminate, it's mostly dark inside, ZATU operator is aiming from behind his M4 with a tactical flashlight ON as well... So almost no chance the enemy will be able to see his face.....

But since they operate generally in all black clothes, so a black face cover easily blends with their overall appearance.

A black face mask is an easier option when compared to facial paint.

... Otherwise, the whole commando unit which participates in 23 March JS parade.... Does it openly.

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## blain2

Hiding faces etc. is an anachronism of the past. The only viable reason for it is when troops/Special Forces have to be assigned to internal security and recce in support of anti-terrorism operations where the chances of identification by local anti-state actors are high. The primary reason for concealing facial recognition is to not put the individual or their family members at risk.

For operations against a near-peer, it isn't needed.

Mexican and/or Israeli special forces are usually seen covering their faces because they operate within the local populations and are at risk for two things, a) Identification by drug cartels or Hamas etc., b) endangering their own lives and those of their relations.

Rest of this is just nonsensical mystique being created around Special Forces for no other practical reason.

Last and somewhat logical reason is that most special forces don't allow their people to be photographed. If their pictures are published openly, there is usually some questioning. A very long time ago, an acquaintance of mine, who was then serving in the SSG, had his photo published in the newspaper in the "Matrimonials" section by an eager cousin of his who had newspaper contacts. Just on account of that picture, he had to respond to the GHQ on that issue. This is prior to the "Information Age" days. Nobody wants to deal with this type of scrutiny/khuawri.

The Americans, British, French etc. etc. can cover their faces all they want but in Afghanistan, just by the way they walked gave away their identification and they stopped concealing their faces. The fanboys continue to conceal as if the Taliban were going to search their photos and send hit squads back to the US/UK!  As such, in such realistic circumstances what good does the facial cover do? Also all of the photos above are from COIN/CT operations and those I have explained in the first para.

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## Metal 0-1

blain2 said:


> Hiding faces etc. is an anachronism of the past. The only viable reason for it is when troops/Special Forces have to be assigned to internal security and recce in support of anti-terrorism operations where the chances of identification by local anti-state actors are high. The primary reason for concealing facial recognition is to not put the individual or their family members at risk.
> 
> For conventional roles against a near-peer, it isn't needed.
> 
> Mexican and/or Israeli special forces are usually seen covering their faces because they operate within the local populations and are at risk for two things, a) Identification by drug cartels or Hamas etc., b) endangering their own lives and those of their relations.
> 
> Rest of this is just nonsensical mystique being created around Special Forces for no other practical reason.


Exactly that was my point. They only wear masks because of job sensitivity.


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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Please shed some light on these multimedia too.
> Why he is wearing a mask at 30:43. A common person can tell hiding his identity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now move on to this video why Russian Alpha group is wearing a mask before appearing on camera. Does your argument still apply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why these french Special Forces Operators wearing masks at their comrades funeral?
> View attachment 671546
> 
> 
> Why French elite CT unit GIGN wear mask in public. Does it nothing to with French law which clearly states "You are not allowed to take pictures of their faces and soldiers are not allowed either to shoe their faces"..
> 
> 
> Why the hell British SBS operators covering their faces knowing that there are cameras covering at Battle of Qilla-i-Jangi.
> View attachment 671547
> 
> 
> Why British SAS operators wearing a mask in Public all around cameras...?Sun maybe...
> View attachment 671548
> 
> 
> View attachment 671549
> 
> 
> Same with SAS in Nairobi, Kenya. Mask match with his shirt, pants and multicam plate carrier right.
> View attachment 671550
> 
> 
> London Police CT unit wearing matching masks too.
> View attachment 671551
> 
> 
> 
> *It doesn't have to be matching masks which is total BS. It have to with their job sensitivity. Not stupid Sun and Snow logic...*
> 
> 
> That's sunlight glare. When was the last time you saw someone flashing his taclight during bright day. Lights are only used when going into buildings and pointing at the targets or you have to do target ID.
> 
> You don't always keep your light ON otherwise you give your location and you're dead..


Alpha Group





SBS

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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Why British SAS operators wearing a mask in Public all around cameras...?Sun maybe...
> View attachment 671548


Sun is about to come out of clouds.

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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> Why the hell British SBS operators covering their faces knowing that there are cameras covering at Battle of Qilla-i-Jangi.
> 
> *It doesn't have to be matching masks which is total BS. It have to with their job sensitivity. Not stupid Sun and Snow logic...*


I think we were pretty much on agreement that the trend of hiding faces is followed in foreign outfits, not so much strictly in ours. 

Everyone here gives his opinion based on one's personal experience, first hand or second hand knowledge etc. Everyone is entitled to an opinion which should be respected. 

You can always give yours without using words such as
What the hell..... 
... Which is total BS.

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## CriticalThought

@PanzerKiel does SSG/ZATU conduct the types of drills shown in the video posted by @Metal 0-1 ?






If yes, is there a video available? If no, why not?

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## Metal 0-1

Those SBS operators are retired.
First operator name is Simon Jeffries and second operator name is Jason Carl Fox
@the.natural.edge
@jason_carl_fox
their intagram accounts.

And those are not Alpha group operators.

@PanzerKiel


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## Metal 0-1

CriticalThought said:


> @PanzerKiel does SSG/ZATU conduct the types of drills shown in the video posted by @Metal 0-1 ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If yes, is there a video available? If no, why not?


Not everyone is insane enough


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## PanzerKiel

CriticalThought said:


> @PanzerKiel does SSG/ZATU conduct the types of drills shown in the video posted by @Metal 0-1 ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If yes, is there a video available? If no, why not?


Dear, you can ask from him. He'll be able to put us all wise.


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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> I think we were pretty much on agreement that the trend of hiding faces is followed in foreign outfits, not so much strictly in ours.
> 
> Everyone here gives his opinion based on one's personal experience, first hand or second hand knowledge etc. Everyone is entitled to an opinion which should be respected.
> 
> You can always give yours without using words such as
> What the hell.....
> ... Which is total BS.


----------



## PanzerKiel

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 671322


... As discussed before, we donot follow strictly the trend of hiding faces. 

Pictures such as above, and some others along with it which I posted are of ZATU, but I applied the color over their faces since this a public forum. 

Otherwise these pics are easily available.

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## PanzerKiel

CriticalThought said:


> @PanzerKiel does SSG/ZATU conduct the types of drills shown in the video posted by @Metal 0-1 ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If yes, is there a video available? If no, why not?

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## PanzerKiel

CriticalThought said:


> @PanzerKiel does SSG/ZATU conduct the types of drills shown in the video posted by @Metal 0-1 ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If yes, is there a video available? If no, why not?


ZATU's rolling fire has a permanent feature whereby officers stand side by side of targets which are hit.

Same occurs in room clearance drills as well where officers are standing right next to mock targets which are engaged with live ammo by entry teams.

And its pretty normal in sniper training.

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## Ghost 125

Metal 0-1 said:


> Those SBS operators are retired.
> First operator name is Simon Jeffries and second operator name is Jason Carl Fox
> @the.natural.edge
> @jason_carl_fox
> their intagram accounts.
> 
> And those are not Alpha group operators.
> 
> @PanzerKiel


point is,,, its not important that they are retired or dead...point is they are not covering faces in active ops...becoz they dont feel it is required.. with their outlook, their weapons their vehicles anyone can makeout from a mile away that they are americans or europeans. and by covering face (for identity) what will they achieve,,,it is not that Taliban are going to target them in sweet home Alabama..
that being said here are some recent pics


























In Pakistan aswell our forces do not feel that kind of threat that they will be targeted in their homes... there was a time from 2007 to 2013 when situation was somewhat different and servicemen use to take extra care while traveling and interacting with people but Allahamdulillah no more.

i for one would cover my face all the time but for the reasons i earlier stated....unless i am operating in 2014-17 Baghdad suburbs with Golden Division and IS threat has taken a monsterous shape...then offcourse i will try to hide my identity to protect myself and my family.

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## Vapour

Ghost 125 said:


> point is,,, its not important that they are retired or dead...point is they are not covering faces in active ops...becoz they dont feel it is required.. with their outlook, their weapons their vehicles anyone can makeout from a mile away that they are americans or europeans. and by covering face (for identity) what will they achieve,,,it is not that Taliban are going to target them in sweet home Alabama..
> that being said here are some recent pics
> View attachment 671592
> View attachment 671593
> View attachment 671594
> View attachment 671595
> View attachment 671592
> View attachment 671593
> View attachment 671594
> View attachment 671595
> 
> In Pakistan aswell our forces do not feel that kind of threat that they will be targeted in their homes... there was a time from 2007 to 2013 when situation was somewhat different and servicemen use to take extra care while traveling and interacting with people but Allahamdulillah no more.
> 
> *i for one would cover my face all the time but for the reasons i earlier stated....*unless i am operating in 2014-17 Baghdad suburbs with Golden Division and IS threat has taken a monsterous shape...then offcourse i will try to hide my identity to protect myself and my family.



Is that cos the the enemy faced is not conventional, I.e., can blend into the common population and remain obscure?

So you wouldn't do the same on the eastern border?

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## Vapour

Again re concealing SF's faces for Pakistan - in ops, most locations are closed off for media photographers to go, unless by permission after its secure, meaning that PA has vetted the area and permits taking pics. However, some ISPR pics such as when the COAS visits Cherat, where you see at least 100-200 personnel in a pic - the advances in facial ID tech and the intel India may have on PA, IMO their faces should be blurred out. Particularly if they are to be used for special missions when the western border is fully fenced.

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## Metal 0-1

Ghost 125 said:


> point is,,, its not important that they are retired or dead...point is they are not covering faces in active ops...becoz they dont feel it is required.. with their outlook, their weapons their vehicles anyone can makeout from a mile away that they are americans or europeans. and by covering face (for identity) what will they achieve,,,it is not that Taliban are going to target them in sweet home Alabama..
> that being said here are some recent pics
> View attachment 671592
> View attachment 671593
> View attachment 671594
> View attachment 671595
> View attachment 671592
> View attachment 671593
> View attachment 671594
> View attachment 671595
> 
> In Pakistan aswell our forces do not feel that kind of threat that they will be targeted in their homes... there was a time from 2007 to 2013 when situation was somewhat different and servicemen use to take extra care while traveling and interacting with people but Allahamdulillah no more.
> 
> i for one would cover my face all the time but for the reasons i earlier stated....unless i am operating in 2014-17 Baghdad suburbs with Golden Division and IS threat has taken a monsterous shape...then offcourse i will try to hide my identity to protect myself and my family.


Alright bro.

Your first picture is of active duty Green Berets and SASR. Question can you see their faces.
NO

2nd Picture is of USAF TACPs training in US, who are not even Special Forces rather Special Operation Forces.

3rd and 4th picture is from retired Green Berets Instagram handle..

Did I said anything that mask should be must on every ops. Operations far away from public eyes don't require masks.

But Scenarios like Hayatabad operation right in the middle of city and eyes of cameras require complete censorship. OR masks..


Don't want any more of this stuff.

Thanks


----------



## waz

Metal 0-1 said:


> Please shed some light on these multimedia too.
> Why he is wearing a mask at 30:43. A common person can tell hiding his identity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now move on to this video why Russian Alpha group is wearing a mask before appearing on camera. Does your argument still apply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why these french Special Forces Operators wearing masks at their comrades funeral?
> View attachment 671546
> 
> 
> Why French elite CT unit GIGN wear mask in public. Does it nothing to with French law which clearly states "You are not allowed to take pictures of their faces and soldiers are not allowed either to shoe their faces"..
> 
> 
> Why the hell British SBS operators covering their faces knowing that there are cameras covering at Battle of Qilla-i-Jangi.
> View attachment 671547
> 
> 
> Why British SAS operators wearing a mask in Public all around cameras...?Sun maybe...
> View attachment 671548
> 
> 
> View attachment 671549
> 
> 
> Same with SAS in Nairobi, Kenya. Mask match with his shirt, pants and multicam plate carrier right.
> View attachment 671550
> 
> 
> London Police CT unit wearing matching masks too.
> View attachment 671551
> 
> 
> 
> *It doesn't have to be matching masks which is total BS. It have to with their job sensitivity. Not stupid Sun and Snow logic...*
> 
> 
> That's sunlight glare. When was the last time you saw someone flashing his taclight during bright day. Lights are only used when going into buildings and pointing at the targets or you have to do target ID.
> 
> You don't always keep your light ON otherwise you give your location and you're dead..



Brother between us you can make your point without using terms such as BS.
Thanks.

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## Metal 0-1

You Got it mate


waz said:


> Brother between us you can make your point without using terms such as BS.
> Thanks.

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## Kompromat

Just monkey stunts.



CriticalThought said:


> @PanzerKiel does SSG
> 
> @Metal 0-1 ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If yes, is there a video available? If no, why not?

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## Metal 0-1

Horus said:


> Just monkey stunts.


Maybe for you. But for them its a confidence drill


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## CodeforFood

Metal 0-1 said:


> Maybe for you. But for them its a confidence drill


There are a lot of forces who has performed field work better than Russian special forces without doing this stupidity that is called confidence drill. Someone is just trying to make a statement. I would hope no professional will take that seriously.

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## blain2

I am confused by the last few posts. What is the point of contention? Is it that we don't need to conceal faces but then why do some specialist units like ZATU still cover?

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## Rafi

The Paramilitaries of the "company" carry out covert ops, that no one will ever hear about, sometimes Special Forces are put on temporary assignments and attached, they will wear no unit symbols or insignia.

Also those guys the para mils, you will never see their faces, denial is assured.

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## ghazi52

20 Sep 2020










The military drills, which will be held from Sept 21-26 aim to assess ability of troops to react to various challenges and learn from each other’s experiences, the ISPR said. — ISPR Twitter/File

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## Metal 0-1

CodeforFood said:


> There are a lot of forces who has performed field work better than Russian special forces without doing this stupidity that is called confidence drill. Someone is just trying to make a statement. I would hope no professional will take that seriously.


Let me tell you something, Russian SF are known to get job done.

Whatever you think Russian SF are still up higher in the rankings..... 
I am closely studying Russian SF in Syria trust me they are effective as their Western counterparts like 1st SFOD-D, SEALs, and British SF.

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## CodeforFood

Metal 0-1 said:


> Let me tell you something, Russian SF are known to get job done.
> 
> Whatever you think Russian SF are still up higher in the rankings.....
> I am closely studying Russian SF in Syria trust me they are effective as their Western counterparts like 1st SFOD-D, SEALs, and British SF.


I am not doubting that. I am just making a point that other special forces are getting the job done( some of them better than russians) without doing these unnecessary theatrics.


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## Metal 0-1

CodeforFood said:


> I am not doubting that. I am just making a point that other special forces are getting the job done( some of them better than russians) without doing these unnecessary theatrics.


French GIGN also fire live rounds at their comrades during training. 

So its more about getting job done not about training doctrine...

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## Vortex

Metal 0-1 said:


> French GIGN also fire live rounds at their comrades during training.
> 
> So its more about getting job done not about training doctrine...



I have a video about it. A video about the live fire by new recruit on one comrade to prove that the new recruit is operational.

Will upload it if requested.

ps : the video is a video from a tv program I’ve made with my phone.
unfortunately it’s on my phone and I’m not able to attach it on PDF.
Will try soon from computer @PanzerKiel

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## CriticalThought

PanzerKiel said:


>



Oh no!!! And they're only having fun!!!!! Hats off!!!!

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## CriticalThought

Horus said:


> Just monkey stunts.



Well... if you want to be critical about it, the entire 19 obstacle course at Cherat can be called monkey stunts.

But what people are not analyzing is what the guy says in the video: the drill is about controlling the bullet's trajectory in close quarters, while under severe pressure, and in the presence of non-combatants.

We find mention of controlling the bullet's trajectory in popular Western culture, an example being Max Payne. The later titles of the game show Mr. Payne's finesse in slow motion. I know, it's only a game, but they get professionals to advise on these mega budget games.

Controlling the trajectory is not limited to only the space between muzzle and target. You also need to control how the bullet may ricochet off the target. This would require knowledge of target material, bullet angles. It would require choosing the right bullet before going into an operation based on available intel.

And while we are on the topic of Max Payne, one interesting concept is the 'slow mo' battle rage of Max Payne in which he is able to analyze everything in slow motion. Now this is an exaggeration, but I have thought long and hard about the topic and what a real life manifestation would like. My breakthrough came at the gym during planking. A one minute plank is the longest one minute of my life. Similarly, one minute of non-stop rope skipping. As the oxalic acid starts building up in the muscle tissue, and the hot pain starts registering, the brain analyzes each second separately it seems. My hypothesis is that under oxygen deficiency, the brain quickens up, thus giving a perception of seconds lasting longer.

So, an operator just before performing a controlled breach could artificially recreate this but simply holding his breath. As the lack of oxygen starts making the seconds seem longer, he would breach and charge into a room, where his quicker brain gives him an advantage. This is just a hypothesis on my part, and would require a long and rigorous training to stop thinking about the oxygen deficiency and focus on the task. It would also leave the operator out of breath in the immediate aftermath of the breach. I am further hypothesizing that some kind of injection straight into the blood stream could supply a boost of oxygen.

The closest real life special ops training that I know of is the US SEALs 'water proofing' where the SEAL under training is tied up, his head forced under the water, and he has to free himself up. This has a one to one correspondence with lack of oxygen, strenuous physical activity under pressure, and keeping calm in such a situation. I have a hunch that you can take this to higher levels and use the resulting perception of time slowing down to your advantage.

@PanzerKiel your thoughts would be appreciated

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## Metal 0-1

CriticalThought said:


> Well... if you want to be critical about it, the entire 19 obstacle course at Cherat can be called monkey stunts.
> 
> But what people are not analyzing is what the guy says in the video: the drill is about controlling the bullet's trajectory in close quarters, while under severe pressure, and in the presence of non-combatants.
> 
> We find mention of controlling the bullet's trajectory in popular Western culture, an example being Max Payne. The later titles of the game show Mr. Payne's finesse in slow motion. I know, it's only a game, but they get professionals to advise on these mega budget games.
> 
> Controlling the trajectory is not limited to only the space between muzzle and target. You also need to control how the bullet may ricochet off the target. This would require knowledge of target material, bullet angles. It would require choosing the right bullet before going into an operation based on available intel.
> 
> And while we are on the topic of Max Payne, one interesting concept is the 'slow mo' battle rage of Max Payne in which he is able to analyze everything in slow motion. Now this is an exaggeration, but I have thought long and hard about the topic and what a real life manifestation would like. My breakthrough came at the gym during planking. A one minute plank is the longest one minute of my life. Similarly, one minute of non-stop rope skipping. As the oxalic acid starts building up in the muscle tissue, and the hot pain starts registering, the brain analyzes each second separately it seems. My hypothesis is that under oxygen deficiency, the brain quickens up, thus giving a perception of seconds lasting longer.
> 
> So, an operator just before performing a controlled breach could artificially recreate this but simply holding his breath. As the lack of oxygen starts making the seconds seem longer, he would breach and charge into a room, where his quicker brain gives him an advantage. This is just a hypothesis on my part, and would require a long and rigorous training to stop thinking about the oxygen deficiency and focus on the task. It would also leave the operator out of breath in the immediate aftermath of the breach. I am further hypothesizing that some kind of injection straight into the blood stream could supply a boost of oxygen.
> 
> The closest real life special ops training that I know of is the US SEALs 'water proofing' where the SEAL under training is tied up, his head forced under the water, and he has to free himself up. This has a one to one correspondence with lack of oxygen, strenuous physical activity under pressure, and keeping calm in such a situation. I have a hunch that you can take this to higher levels and use the resulting perception of time slowing down to your advantage.
> 
> @PanzerKiel your thoughts would be appreciated


Agree. As you can see in second drill as he was being pushed and yelled by other Operators he was also given quick maths problems. And was shooting his targets close to friendlies.


Idea was to check your fire plus to keep calm under stress so your mind can analyze situation...


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## PanzerKiel

CriticalThought said:


> Well... if you want to be critical about it, the entire 19 obstacle course at Cherat can be called monkey stunts.
> 
> But what people are not analyzing is what the guy says in the video: the drill is about controlling the bullet's trajectory in close quarters, while under severe pressure, and in the presence of non-combatants.
> 
> We find mention of controlling the bullet's trajectory in popular Western culture, an example being Max Payne. The later titles of the game show Mr. Payne's finesse in slow motion. I know, it's only a game, but they get professionals to advise on these mega budget games.
> 
> Controlling the trajectory is not limited to only the space between muzzle and target. You also need to control how the bullet may ricochet off the target. This would require knowledge of target material, bullet angles. It would require choosing the right bullet before going into an operation based on available intel.
> 
> And while we are on the topic of Max Payne, one interesting concept is the 'slow mo' battle rage of Max Payne in which he is able to analyze everything in slow motion. Now this is an exaggeration, but I have thought long and hard about the topic and what a real life manifestation would like. My breakthrough came at the gym during planking. A one minute plank is the longest one minute of my life. Similarly, one minute of non-stop rope skipping. As the oxalic acid starts building up in the muscle tissue, and the hot pain starts registering, the brain analyzes each second separately it seems. My hypothesis is that under oxygen deficiency, the brain quickens up, thus giving a perception of seconds lasting longer.
> 
> So, an operator just before performing a controlled breach could artificially recreate this but simply holding his breath. As the lack of oxygen starts making the seconds seem longer, he would breach and charge into a room, where his quicker brain gives him an advantage. This is just a hypothesis on my part, and would require a long and rigorous training to stop thinking about the oxygen deficiency and focus on the task. It would also leave the operator out of breath in the immediate aftermath of the breach. I am further hypothesizing that some kind of injection straight into the blood stream could supply a boost of oxygen.
> 
> The closest real life special ops training that I know of is the US SEALs 'water proofing' where the SEAL under training is tied up, his head forced under the water, and he has to free himself up. This has a one to one correspondence with lack of oxygen, strenuous physical activity under pressure, and keeping calm in such a situation. I have a hunch that you can take this to higher levels and use the resulting perception of time slowing down to your advantage.
> 
> @PanzerKiel your thoughts would be appreciated



Dear

I would rather not share my thoughts since I'll have to divulge several other things which shouldn't be posted. 

But I must say, I'm in complete agreement with you.

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## PDF

PanzerKiel said:


> Dear
> 
> I would rather not share my thoughts since I'll have to divulge several other things which shouldn't be posted.
> 
> But I must say, I'm in complete agreement with you.


Sometimes, you sound soo diplomatic and also like a politician too.

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## PanzerKiel

PDF said:


> Sometimes, you sound soo diplomatic and also like a politician too.


It means my self improvement strategies are progressing well.

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## ghazi52

Contingent of Pakistan Armed Forces at Kavkaz 2020 Russia

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## bhola record

@PanzerKiel the question i had in mind since i got crazy about SSG is what kind of man is ideal for them.Could you shed some light please?


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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> @PanzerKiel the question i had in mind since i got crazy about SSG is what kind of man is ideal for them.Could you shed some light please?


A simple disciplined soldier who is ready to follow orders in true letter and spirit.

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> A simple disciplined soldier who is ready to follow orders in true letter and spirit.


that is it?

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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> that is it?


Exactly, everything else falls under the umbrella of this definition.

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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
POV of the operator

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## Metal 0-1

I wish this video was without watermarks.

P.S Nice work on putting weapon on safe/unsafe..


bhola record said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
> POV of the operator

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## Metal 0-1

The Good old Zarrar. Visible results of SAS God-fathering our elite unit.

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## bhola record

Metal 0-1 said:


> The Good old Zarrar. Visible results of SAS God-fathering our elite unit.
> View attachment 672378


they are looking like special projects group crzy!


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## Ghost 125

Metal 0-1 said:


> The Good old Zarrar. Visible results of SAS God-fathering our elite unit.
> View attachment 672378


yes, see pics of SAS during iranian embassy siege. almost similar weapons and equipment.

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## Metal 0-1

Ghost 125 said:


> yes, see pics of SAS during iranian embassy siege. almost similar weapons and equipment.


They are just missing maglite MP-5s

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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1308971650797449217

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## Ghost 125

Vapour said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1308971650797449217


lovely...real fun of attan starts from its third stage , the half spin,,,

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## blain2

Metal 0-1 said:


> The Good old Zarrar. Visible results of SAS God-fathering our elite unit.
> View attachment 672378


Perhaps in the way they look, but SSG has never been trained by the SAS.


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## Metal 0-1

blain2 said:


> Perhaps in the way they look, but SSG has never been trained by the SAS.


Now here you are wrong mate.
Guys in the front row are from SAS.






Powindah's training with SAS at Sterling lines.

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## Metal 0-1

Providing overwatch

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## PanzerKiel



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## Irfan Baloch

bhola record said:


> that is it?


yes my dear and once it comes to putting these instructions to action then the gravity of the undertaking falls upon the person.

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## Reichmarshal

ghazi52 said:


> Contingent of Pakistan Armed Forces at Kavkaz 2020 Russia
> 
> 
> View attachment 672130


Al Sumsam


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## Vapour

Ghost 125 said:


> lovely...real fun of attan starts from its third stage , the half spin,,,



Did the other countries also have their special forces for this camp or just Pakistan, if anyone knows?


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## PanzerKiel

Vapour said:


> Did the other countries also have their special forces for this camp or just Pakistan, if anyone knows?



Approximately 80,000 soldiers participated in the exercise. The vast majority of these troops werefrom Russia, but soldiers from Armenia, Belarus, China, Iran, Myanmar and Pakistan also participated. These military drills also involved 250 tanks, almost 500 armored personnel carriers, around 200 pieces of artillery, and ships from both the Russian and Iranian navies.

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## Vapour

PanzerKiel said:


> Approximately 80,000 soldiers participated in the exercise. The vast majority of these troops werefrom Russia, but soldiers from Armenia, Belarus, China, Iran, Myanmar and Pakistan also participated. These military drills also involved 250 tanks, almost 500 armored personnel carriers, around 200 pieces of artillery, and ships from both the Russian and Iranian navies.



Doesn't mention anything specific. Have noticed from most of these Russian exercises, either SCO or with SSG in Pak and Russia recently, it seems like they don't have their very elite forces at these exercises. Don't know if they're regular or special forces though.

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## Vapour

Also @PDF - why is this thread in Military Photos & Multimedia?


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## Kompromat

This are many flaws in this shooting position. 



Metal 0-1 said:


> Providing overwatch
> 
> View attachment 673059

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## HaMoTZeMaS

I wanna ask, After getting training from several armies like SAS etc, do our SSGs become suprior in versatility or its just we are still inferior so continuously need training from them?


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## Metal 0-1

Horus said:


> This are many flaws in this shooting position.


Yes there are many flaws. Like rifle is supported on very low level object as compared to his shoulders. A lose grip on the stock. Rifle is at steep downward angle a very bad posture will lead to back and neck pain legs are dangling meaning not a firm support for lower back. Supporting arm is dangling too thus missing every shot and many many more.

But you got to understand that just a photo op. There are taking picture just for their social media.

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## Metal 0-1

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> I wanna ask, After getting training from several armies like SAS etc, do our SSGs become suprior in versatility or its just we are still inferior so continuously need training from them?


I really like your question. I'll try to explain with simple example, "No matter how much a student get knowledge, can he/she surpass his/her teacher or master?"

Definitely No. 

US Delta Force was was based on SAS but still at number two spot and SAS is at number one spot. 
On a wider note SAS/SBS and US MACV-SOG are considered Father and Mother of modern Special Forces around the globe but they are at number one spot no other SF unit is able to Outclass them.

SSG/SSG-N are not the most elite but on of the elite. In my ranking SSG/SSG-N lies around 7th spot in Top Ten.

Only couple of things are stopping them from becoming a 5th place contender and that are lack of modern training and tactics, equipment(including weapons) and limited Area of Operation(Unlike their western or Russian counterparts who track terrorists to other countries in Clandestine/Covert or Non-Covert Operations).

For example British SAS/SBS and Candian Joint Task Force 2 are not officially present in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and African countries. They don't need their government approval, Government often don't know about their presence and they deny any claims about them.

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## Metal 0-1

Vapour said:


> Doesn't mention anything specific. Have noticed from most of these Russian exercises, either SCO or with SSG in Pak and Russia recently, it seems like they don't have their very elite forces at these exercises. Don't know if they're regular or special forces though.


Only Pakistan sent SF unit all other countries troops were form infantry, mechanized divisions and paratroopers.


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## HaMoTZeMaS

Metal 0-1 said:


> I really like your question. I'll try to explain with simple example, "No matter how much a student get knowledge, can he/she surpass his/her teacher or master?"
> 
> Definitely No.
> 
> US Delta Force was was based on SAS but still at number two spot and SAS is at number one spot.
> On a wider note SAS/SBS and US MACV-SOG are considered Father and Mother of modern Special Forces around the globe but they are at number one spot no other SF unit is able to Outclass them.
> 
> SSG/SSG-N are not the most elite but on of the elite. In my ranking SSG/SSG-N lies around 7th spot in Top Ten.
> 
> Only couple of things are stopping them from becoming a 5th place contender and that are lack of modern training and tactics, equipment(including weapons) and limited Area of Operation(Unlike their western or Russian counterparts who track terrorists to other countries in Clandestine/Covert or Non-Covert Operations).
> 
> For example British SAS/SBS and Candian Joint Task Force 2 are not officially present in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and African countries. They don't need their government approval, Government often don't know about their presence and they deny any claims about them.


So in a nutshell, the scope of operations or area of deployment increases the versatility and broaden the size of box for elite forces.

Let's say if we have enough resources and decide to start meddling in outside pakistan, automatically our elite forces would be in position of much more training and thus will become more competant and potent


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## Metal 0-1

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> So in a nutshell, the scope of operations or area of deployment increases the versatility and broaden the size of box for elite forces.
> 
> Let's say if we have enough resources and decide to start meddling in outside pakistan, automatically our elite forces would be in position of much more training and thus will become more competant and potent



I didn't said only scope of operations is the only requirement.

First comes the modern up to date training and equipment.

Than Operations.
Yes involving in more operations give a picture of them as a potent Special Forces unit.


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## HaMoTZeMaS

Metal 0-1 said:


> I didn't said only scope of operations is the only requirement.
> 
> First comes the modern up to date training and equipment.
> 
> Than Operations.
> Yes involving in more operations give a picture of them as a potent Special Forces unit.


That is my opinion. I think when we have higher goals our training and excercises are based on them and thus is our capacity.
Since Pakistan has no goals of doing covert ops outside so we lack that type of training and our forces will never be on that level. Also because we have much internal issues, So to look out we must first eradicate much of internal issues.


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## Vapour

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> That is my opinion. I think when we have higher goals our training and excercises are based on them and thus is our capacity.
> Since Pakistan has no goals of doing covert ops outside so we lack that type of training and our forces will never be on that level. Also because we have much internal issues, So to look out we must first eradicate much of internal issues.



Don't think we should expect or even want any information on anything covert to be released, whether anything is happening or not. The tidbits from news, SM and any interesting trends over time are enough for one to gain a picture. Only thing I desire is more information to be disclosed regarding the LOC, because an ISPR tweet every now and again about giving a "befitting reply" is simply not enough.

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## Metal 0-1

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> That is my opinion. I think when we have higher goals our training and excercises are based on them and thus is our capacity.
> Since Pakistan has no goals of doing covert ops outside so we lack that type of training and our forces will never be on that level. Also because we have much internal issues, So to look out we must first eradicate much of internal issues.



For internal issues they have to modernize their methods and techniques.

Like CQB, weapon handling and manipulation, more modern weapons and upgrades. Low profile plate carriers, Combat shirts and pants, newer tac boots, helmets, IFAK(Individual First Aid Kits), Team medics, Squad Sniper/Marksman, some other small things....


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## blain2

Deleted.


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## blain2

Metal 0-1 said:


> I really like your question. I'll try to explain with simple example, "No matter how much a student get knowledge, can he/she surpass his/her teacher or master?"
> 
> Definitely No.
> 
> US Delta Force was was based on SAS but still at number two spot and SAS is at number one spot.
> On a wider note SAS/SBS and US MACV-SOG are considered Father and Mother of modern Special Forces around the globe but they are at number one spot no other SF unit is able to Outclass them.
> 
> SSG/SSG-N are not the most elite but on of the elite. In my ranking SSG/SSG-N lies around 7th spot in Top Ten.
> 
> Only couple of things are stopping them from becoming a 5th place contender and that are lack of modern training and tactics, equipment(including weapons) and limited Area of Operation(Unlike their western or Russian counterparts who track terrorists to other countries in Clandestine/Covert or Non-Covert Operations).
> 
> For example British SAS/SBS and Candian Joint Task Force 2 are not officially present in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and African countries. They don't need their government approval, Government often don't know about their presence and they deny any claims about them.


While I don't buy into this ranking exercise, no two SFs are ever alike, but experience-wise, SSG are easily at the very top of the pyramid for special forces operations. The less said the better on this account.

Equipment wise, we are a poor country and it is reflected in the equipment/kit but this isn't what makes a special force "special".

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## Metal 0-1

Rifle supported on a makeshift tripod...

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## PanzerKiel



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## AMG_12

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 676224


RIP

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## Sifar zero

AMG_12 said:


> RIP


Whta happened to him?


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## AMG_12

Sifar zero said:


> Whta happened to him?


Shot dead by armed robbers.


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## bhola record

AMG_12 said:


> Shot dead by armed robbers.


happened in g 6 i think but this is very preculiar case


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## Sifar zero

bhola record said:


> happened in g 6 i think but this is very preculiar case


Yes I think his future wife was with him I guess.His murderers were Afghani.

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## AMG_12

bhola record said:


> happened in g 6 i think but this is very preculiar case


Not G6 but G9


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## Irfan Baloch

blain2 said:


> While I don't buy into this ranking exercise, no two SFs are ever alike, but experience-wise, SSG are easily at the very top of the pyramid for special forces operations. The less said the better on this account.
> 
> Equipment wise, we are a poor country and it is reflected in the equipment/kit but this isn't what makes a special force "special".



it looks like you have some close relation or acquaintance with our SSG personal because whatever you have written over the years is matched with what I have seen and been told by my friends in SSG.

you are right. our SSG operations are mostly classified and are not restricted to beyond our borders with our neighboring countries but their scope goes beyond that and as you said its better to leave it there,
exposure is global for sure but yes, being a third world country the equipment and the support at disposal is not like what the primer special forces of UK and USA have for them. apparently there are 20 support personal per special operative in the field providing him with logistics, RT intel, insertion and extraction, equipment maintenance, support for the families, real time intelligence. their gear is classified and beyond our imagination. SAS personnel had big trouble for posting a group photo on social media with their tactical gear which included some specialized equipment for underwater stealth and fast movement etc. 


a family friend of mine since school days met me few years ago and briefed me about his operations in SWAT and tribal areas. he was selected for US Army rangers course and the Turkish special forces courses and preferred the Turks due to more access to the equipment and platforms. he wanted to be SSG instructor but since his promotion to Lt Colonel I haven't been able to contact him. he said that they prepared for all eventualities and are not equipment dependent but having access to modern lighter but effective equipment does enhance their performance.

@Metal 0-1 
I had to delete your post that was in response to the post from the gentleman I just quoted. your contributions are most welcome and you are encouraged to give your difference of opinion but please do so with due diligence and some thought. you are a resourceful man and I am sure you can adapt better according to who you address and your choice of words.

please remember its NOT how YOU perceive your own words and actions directed towards others. but its down to OTHERS how they see and react to what you say and do. your post was reported and I agreed that you could've phrased it better.

you don't need to respond to me or prove anything.

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## R Wing

bhola record said:


> happened in g 6 i think but this is very preculiar case





Sifar zero said:


> Yes I think his future wife was with him I guess.His murderers were Afghani.



Were they caught? What became of this? RIP

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## PanzerKiel

R Wing said:


> Were they caught? What became of this? RIP


Taken out.

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## R Wing

PanzerKiel said:


> Taken out.



Good. Bastards.

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## Inception-06

PanzerKiel said:


> Taken out.


fantastic!


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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
let me guess chinese?


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## blain2

I would have responded to Metal's valid and slightly sarcastic post, no offense taken by the way, about SSG being better, more experienced than this, that and the other. But his post was exactly the reason I don't get involved in comparisons and lists.

All I will say is that next to the US SF (on account of the scale and scope of their employment worldwide) and possibly SAS (given the small size, their ability to deploy at the frequency of both the USSF and even our SSG is questionable), the SSG have in all likelihood seen the most experience both near and afar compared to ANY other SF around the world. Add all of the work that has been done with employments in the 14 year long-CI campaign, LoC etc., FID, secondment duties, and even then this is only half the picture.

I must also add that its not all great successes. There have been failures and losses as well, but it has given the SSG a wealth of experience which is second to none.

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## Vapour

bhola record said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
> let me guess chinese?



Does SSG not use camouflage uniform for desert terrain (if that's what it is in the pic) deployment?


blain2 said:


> I would have responded to Metal's valid and slightly sarcastic post, no offense taken by the way, about SSG being better, more experienced than this, that and the other. But his post was exactly the reason I don't get involved in comparisons and lists.
> 
> All I will say is that next the US SF (on account of the scale and scope of their employment worldwide) and possibly SAS (given the small size, their ability to deploy at the frequency of both the USSF and even our SSG is questionable), the SSG have in all likelihood seen the most experience both near and afar compared to ANY other SF around the world. Add all of the work that has been done with employments in the 14 year long-CI campaign, LoC etc., FID, secondment duties, and even then this is only half the picture.
> 
> I must also add that its not all great successes. There have been failures and losses as well, but it has given the SSG a wealth of experience which is second to none.



Are ops conducted decades ago that aren't known to the public, still classified?

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## blain2

Vapour said:


> Does SSG not use camouflage uniform for desert terrain (if that's what it is in the pic) deployment?


The first picture looks like a setting for a demo etc. and perhaps not an exercise area in the desert. SSG can always fall back to the regular digital pattern for operations in the deserts.



> Are ops conducted decades ago that aren't known to the public, still classified?



Many are for reasons of national security and sensitivity in foreign relations to this day.

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## Yasser76

blain2 said:


> The first picture looks like a setting for a demo etc. and perhaps not an exercise area in the desert. SSG can always fall back to the regular digital pattern for operations in the deserts.
> 
> 
> 
> Many are for reasons of national security and sensitivity in foreign relations to this day.



Rifles are Chinese.

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## blain2

Yasser76 said:


> Rifles are Chinese.


Yes, QBZ rifles perhaps in a joint demo with the Chinese troops.

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## PanzerKiel



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## CriticalThought

blain2 said:


> I would have responded to Metal's valid and slightly sarcastic post, no offense taken by the way, about SSG being better, more experienced than this, that and the other. But his post was exactly the reason I don't get involved in comparisons and lists.
> 
> All I will say is that next to the US SF (on account of the scale and scope of their employment worldwide) and possibly SAS (given the small size, their ability to deploy at the frequency of both the USSF and even our SSG is questionable), the SSG have in all likelihood seen the most experience both near and afar compared to ANY other SF around the world. Add all of the work that has been done with employments in the 14 year long-CI campaign, LoC etc., FID, secondment duties, and even then this is only half the picture.
> 
> I must also add that its not all great successes. There have been failures and losses as well, but it has given the SSG a wealth of experience which is second to none.



This was actually evidenced recently when Indians accused China of utilizing a 'bearded man', and the Armenians accused the Azeris of utilizing 'Pakistanis'.

There can be only two mutually exclusive interpretations: either SSG was actually deployed in these cases, or it wasn't. If it was, that corroborates your points above.

But even if SSG wasn't deployed, it shows a deep psychological impact on the enemy's mind. All Pak Army has to do is to officially announce its support, and enemies start seeing 'bearded guys' and 'Pakistanis'. This is only possible through an established reputation resulting from a long history of successful deployments which are unknown to general public but very well known in the military circles.

@Metal 0-1

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## Metal 0-1

CriticalThought said:


> This was actually evidenced recently when Indians accused China of utilizing a 'bearded man', and the Armenians accused the Azeris of utilizing 'Pakistanis'.
> 
> There can be only two mutually exclusive interpretations: either SSG was actually deployed in these cases, or it wasn't. If it was, that corroborates your points above.
> 
> But even if SSG wasn't deployed, it shows a deep psychological impact on the enemy's mind. All Pak Army has to do is to officially announce its support, and enemies start seeing 'bearded guys' and 'Pakistanis'. This is only possible through an established reputation resulting from a long history of successful deployments which are unknown to general public but very well known in the military circles.
> 
> @Metal 0-1


I'm on official vacations....

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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel



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## Sunny4pak

*All Weapons Used by Special Forces of Pakistan 200*






@Zarvan @Rafi @Imran Khan @StormBreaker

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## Metal 0-1

Sunny4pak said:


> *All Weapons Used by Special Forces of Pakistan 200*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Zarvan @Rafi @Imran Khan @StormBreaker


Dude you need to do more research.
First off CQB weapons you mentioned are SMGs means pistol caliber machine guns. SMGs are not the only CQB weapons. Assault rifles are too.

Fun Fact Pakistan's SOF community use original H&K MP-5s. and MP-5K which is a Personal Defence Weapon only used by Zarrar ATU personnel for VIP protection.

You missed FN-90 PDW/SMG used by SSW.

Sig 516 is not a assault rifle but rather a PDW used by SSG-N VBSS team they use their M-4s too.

Steelcore cyclone is meant for civilian market. SSG-N don't use it. It is used by ISIS in Iraq and Syria.
SSG-N use SC-76 thunderbolt which you mixed with Cyclone.

AZB DMR is seen in the service with SSG.

Now Styer SSG-69 have been phased out to Infantry Units. SSG now use Remington R700/M-24.
They also use Remington R700 with AI(Accuracy international) chassis. Which is identical to Accuracy International AWM but taking a closer look you can spot the difference.

Speaking of AWM, it's not limited to 7.62x51/.308. It's designed to accept different calibers like .300 Win Mag and .338 Lapua Mag.

FN Minimi is a Light Machine Gun. It's only 5.56. It's not a Heavy Machine Gun.
Minimi comes only in 5.56 not 7.62 NATO. FN-Maximi/M-240B GPMG comes in 7.62 NATO which we don't use.

FN-Minimi Para is used by SSW and SSG-N but Army's SSG use both FN-Belgiums Minimi and FN-USA M249 SAW.

Nice Effort though....

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## Sunny4pak

Metal 0-1 said:


> Dude you need to do more research.
> First off CQB weapons you mentioned are SMGs means pistol caliber machine guns. SMGs are not the only CQB weapons. Assault rifles are too.
> 
> Fun Fact Pakistan's SOF community use original H&K MP-5s. and MP-5K which is a Personal Defence Weapon only used by Zarrar ATU personnel for VIP protection.
> 
> You missed FN-90 PDW/SMG used by SSW.
> 
> Sig 516 is not a assault rifle but rather a PDW used by SSG-N VBSS team they use their M-4s too.
> 
> Steelcore cyclone is meant for civilian market. SSG-N don't use it. It is used by ISIS in Iraq and Syria.
> SSG-N use SC-76 thunderbolt which you mixed with Cyclone.
> 
> AZB DMR is seen in the service with SSG.
> 
> Now Styer SSG-69 have been phased out to Infantry Units. SSG now use Remington R700/M-24.
> They also use Remington R700 with AI(Accuracy international) chassis. Which is identical to Accuracy International AWM but taking a closer look you can spot the difference.
> 
> Speaking of AWM, it's not limited to 7.62x51/.308. It's designed to accept different calibers like .300 Win Mag and .338 Lapua Mag.
> 
> FN Minimi is a Light Machine Gun. It's only 5.56. It's not a Heavy Machine Gun.
> Minimi comes only in 5.56 not 7.62 NATO. FN-Maximi/M-240B GPMG comes in 7.62 NATO which we don't use.
> 
> FN-Minimi Para is used by SSW and SSG-N but Army's SSG use both FN-Belgiums Minimi and FN-USA M249 SAW.
> 
> Nice Effort though....


Thanks for sparing time, and guiding me Dear.

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## Rafi

Sunny4pak said:


> *All Weapons Used by Special Forces of Pakistan 200*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Zarvan @Rafi @Imran Khan @StormBreaker


 
Love the vid.

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## ghazi52



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## Vapour

@Ghost 125 If you served along the LOC, can you please tell some anecdotes from your time there (obv nothing classified)?

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## Ghost 125

Vapour said:


> @Ghost 125 If you served along the LOC, can you please tell some anecdotes from your time there (obv nothing classified)?


I know as much as anyone else on this forum and u ve probably read all that already. Many here are much more informed on the subject thn myself.

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## Vapour

Ghost 125 said:


> I know as much as anyone else on this forum and u ve probably read all that already. Many here are much more informed on the subject thn myself.



Fair enough. 🙁

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## Signalian

Metal 0-1 said:


> Guys in the front row are from SAS.


My instructor for combat conditioning was from British SAS. They are pretty strong blokes who are serious about what they do.

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## Metal 0-1

Signalian said:


> My instructor for combat conditioning was from British SAS. They are pretty strong blokes who are serious about what they do.


Yes they are some Madlads..

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Vapour said:


> Fair enough. 🙁


The hallmark of many Pakistani Military Professionals - tougher to get any information out of them in public than robbing Fort Knox 😁

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## Vapour



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## Vapour

bhola record said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
> let me guess chinese?



The above pic I posted is of the same SSG personnel I think, at least the one on the left, must be a recent training exercise with the PLA.


----------



## Neurath

Does anybody have a few pictures of the SSG in full combat gear? Please spare some.


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## bhola record

Vapour said:


> The above pic I posted is of the same SSG personnel I think, at least the one on the left, must be a recent training exercise with the PLA.


yup same guys

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## Metal 0-1

Neurath said:


> Does anybody have a few pictures of the SSG in full combat gear? Please spare some.


With plate carrier.






With Chest rig

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## Neurath

Metal 0-1 said:


> With plate carrier.
> View attachment 681135
> 
> 
> With Chest rig
> View attachment 681136
> 
> View attachment 681137


Thanks, I needed one for a project I was working on.


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## PanzerKiel



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## Metal 0-1



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## Vapour

Metal 0-1 said:


> View attachment 681267



What's that flag?


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## PanzerKiel

Vapour said:


> What's that flag?


SSG flag

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## Vapour

PanzerKiel said:


> SSG flag



Guessing of a specific company.

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## Metal 0-1

Vapour said:


> What's that flag?





PanzerKiel said:


> SSG flag


Small correction:
It's Air Force's SSW flag.

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## peagle

PanzerKiel said:


> SSG flag



Hi
I know of 
SSG, 
SSW, 
SSGN (although I wish it was just SSN)

But, please, what special forces are SOW, I can't recall having read anything about them, thank you.


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## PanzerKiel

peagle said:


> Hi
> I know of
> SSG,
> SSW,
> SSGN (although I wish it was just SSN)
> 
> But, please, what special forces are SOW, I can't recall having read anything about them, thank you.


Please elaborate, where did you come across SOW?


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## peagle

PanzerKiel said:


> Please elaborate, where did you come across SOW?


It's in the heading of this thread

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## PanzerKiel

peagle said:


> It's in the heading of this thread


That's the spec ops branch of FC.

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## peagle

PanzerKiel said:


> That's the spec ops branch of FC.



Thank you,
good to know our paramilitary forces are becoming professional, and increasingly capable.

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## Vapour

Not sure if old or new.

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## PanzerKiel



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## Sifar zero

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 682455


Which gun is this?


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## bhola record

Vapour said:


> View attachment 682444
> 
> 
> Not sure if old or new.


quetta??/

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## Vapour

bhola record said:


> quetta??/



Your guess is as good as mine.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Sifar zero said:


> Which gun is this?


Thats a shotgun.. saiga or vepr.


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## bhola record

Vapour said:


> Your guess is as good as mine.


well actual whenever i see rugged mountains and beautiful sky and smiling men quetta comes in my mind

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## PanzerKiel

Afghan Embassy 1994

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## Kompromat

Met someone who took part in the bus hijacking operation in the Afghan embassy. I asked him how did it go, he told me that it was just like a regular training exercise. We went in, finished the job, just like we did in training.

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## Vapour

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 683070
> 
> Afghan Embassy 1994
> View attachment 683076



What about the bottom pic?


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## PanzerKiel

Vapour said:


> What about the bottom pic?


Notice the gun. You seldom see it in normal pics.

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## PanzerKiel



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## Ghost 125

PanzerKiel said:


> Notice the gun. You seldom see it in normal pics.


mac 10...is it ?

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## bhola record

Horus said:


> Met someone who took part in the bus hijacking operation in the Afghan embassy. I asked him how did it go, he told me that it was just like a regular training exercise. We went in, finished the job, just like we did in training.


would be cool if we make a good shortfilm out of it good PR


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## PanzerKiel



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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1307258683013951490

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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel



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## Psychic

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 686251
> View attachment 686255
> View attachment 686255


Don't the black vest and helmet without camo stick out like a sore thumb?


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## PanzerKiel

3 Commando's officers in East Pakistan, 1971,

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## Kompromat

SSG needs to be allotted a special budget to acquire modern kits and gear for both uniformed and covert operations.

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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel

Gen Gul Hassan (then Brig, as DMO) meeting SSG troops who managed to exfiltrate back to Pakistan after their drops in India in1965 War.

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## FuturePAF

Do SSG fly in the passenger compartment of the Pakistani Mi-24P? Could be really good air controllers for follow up air strikes, especially if dropped off by fast low to the ground insertions.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1327131784950263814


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## PanzerKiel



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## Aryeih Leib

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 683070
> 
> Afghan Embassy 1994
> View attachment 683076


Is that UZI ?


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## PanzerKiel

Aryeih Leib said:


> Is that UZI ?


Mac-10

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## Vapour

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 688175



LOC?

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## PanzerKiel

Vapour said:


> LOC?


Old one, Swat.

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## PDF

PanzerKiel said:


> Old one, Swat.


The best part of Operation Black ThunderStorm was the Airborne component. utlizing that at such a large scale must have provided significant inputs so that the airborne ops during wartime can be utilized in a better manner.

It also shows that if airborne ops of such scale are getting old for convertional war, they can be used operationally at unconventional warfare.









Yes, Mass Airborne Operations are a Thing of the Past - Modern War Institute


MWI contributor James King argues that increasingly capable and integrated air defense systems have brought about the end of mass airborne operations.




mwi.usma.edu

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## Vapour



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## Vapour

@PanzerKiel You mentioned in the recent LOC thread that there was further action taking place by regulars and SOF going in against IA posts, there hasn't been any news on it, anything you can share?

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## PanzerKiel

Vapour said:


> @PanzerKiel You mentioned in the recent LOC thread that there was further action taking place by regulars and SOF going in against IA posts, there hasn't been any news on it, anything you can share?


Done and dusted. But of course dear you do understand that these details will never come out. Those who did it, and those who were targeted....they know what happened....lets keep it that way.

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## Vapour

PanzerKiel said:


> Done and dusted. But of course dear you do understand that these details will never come out. Those who did it, and those who were targeted....they know what happened....lets keep it that way.



Thanks!

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## Vapour




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## PanzerKiel



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## PDF

A blog about thermal sights used by US Special Forces.
JFYI: https://m.blog.naver.com/gorviano/222036734484

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## PDF

PDF said:


> View attachment 691398


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## ghazi52

Brig. Sultan Amir Tarrar Shaheed (SSG) (Known as Col. Imam)

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

From the past.
Soldier gathering ice to melt it t make water

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## ghazi52

Gun placement on top of a post








*Siachen Glacier - War Above the Clouds*



Same gun placement in a wide angle shot

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## Vapour

Sharing a PDF post about a SSG mission from a yesteryear:

Kunar battalion (# of military unit 93992) of the 66th separate infantry brigade of Dzhelalabad division moved to Novobad bridge across Kunar river on 15th May of 1983.

The task: companies # 8 and 9 were supposed to occupy commanding heights and blockade Nova ravine, the 7th company blockades Gandzhgal and Borugey ravines, where a special group of mine-layers would be installing sensors LRealiya&#1110;. A battalion of Ltsarandoy&#1110; (Afghan forces) was given to Soviet units under indispensable condition that Afghan groups would be moving in advance of Soviet soldiers.

Immediately after passage across the river Afghan soldiers refused to move forward and politic officer of Soviet battalion made a decision to move ahead of them. Soldiers of both Soviet and Afghan battalions mixed and some Soviet-Afghan groups were organised. In particular, seven Ltsarandoy&#1110; soldiers Lmerged&#1110; with the 2nd platoon of the 7th company (the head of platoon lieutenant Demtchenko), which was leaded, in fact, by the political officer lieutenant S. Amosov, who was taking care of recently arrived lieutenant Demtchenko.

The 7th company was supposed to break up on platoons and to be located on three knolls - 1st platoon on the right side, the 3rd, leaded by the commander of the company - captain A., in the heart of the ravine, the 2nd platoon on the left wing, the closest position to the Pakistan border, which was just three kilometres away.

Towards the dawn of the 16th of May units had to take starting positions. But some of them - while approaching the prospective positions, were fired upon by the rebellions (Afghan partisans sometimes were called rebellions as their movement was against the Afghan revolution), who occupied the knolls already. So we had to talk about information leak via Afghan officers again (which was the source, among the number of such tragedies, of destruction of Soviet soldiers in Maravar ravine two years later).

In this particular case two platoons of the 9th company and the group of the commander of the 7th company, based on his words, which was leaded by him on the top of Lhis&#1110; knoll were fired upon and had urgently to look for new positions. The company commander had to withdraw to kishlak. Practically all other eyewitnesses stated that company commander did it leaded by selfish ends, hoping to get something there. One way or another, having pulled the 3rd platoon in kishlak, the commander of company allowed suddenly appeared enemies to block him and begin an unplanned combat.

The commander of the battalion, mayor CZ., having no full information about the real situation and receiving a radio message from the commander of the 7th company describing the situation, amassed all available artillery and helicopters fire on the kishlak and its approaches.

Meanwhile almost all groups of other companies of the battalion had fire contact with enemies, located on dominated hills. The Soviet-Afghan group of lieutenant S. Amosov, which was combating already and reporting about destruction of 20 Ldukhs&#1110; asked for help, having heard about situation began to help the group of company commander. Let-s remind, the Amosov-s group had taken the left wing position and controlled the way in Gandzhgal ravine to the Pakistan border. At the same time the 1st platoon of lieutenant R., having left his positions on the right wing, began to come down to the kishlak, preventing the Ldukhs-&#1110; attempts to surround the blocked platoon simultaneously missing Amosov-s hill and its approaches from range of vision.

In an hour Amosov-s group was attacked by huge - up to 200 rebellions - modzhakhed-s forces. At the first minutes of the combat the radio was destroyed by bullets. The platoon lost the possibility to report about the situation and ask for help. The picture of the began combat could be seen by the 1st platoon but as we know it had moved from its position downhill. The armoured group of the 7th company, which was supposed to cover Amosov-s group from the rear, moved to kishlak too. All attention was amassed on company commander-s group. At the same time soldiers of the 9th company were killing, left without a cover of artillery and helicopters, as well as people of Amosov-s group.

Having seen impossibility to stay on exposed, from all sides, to enemies fire hill, Amosov and Demchenko decided to come downhill leading the wounded soldiers to the ravine, besides, towards that time company commander group was released from kishlak and was withdrawing, together with the 1st platoon, to its regular position.

Three our soldiers and two Ltsarandoys&#1110; stayed on the top of the hill in order to cover withdrawing group. They repulsed the first attack and got few minutes of respite. That time wasn-t even enough to bandage wounds (their comrades found later dressing packets near their, mutilated by bullets and stones, bodies). The second attack began and all of them were killed. At the same time the group of Pakistan special forces about one hundred in number, outflanked the knoll on the left side and moved along the dry river-bed hiding on the terrace at hill-s foot. It was enough for them to spend only one hour for the march from their training centre, located near the border, to Gandzhgal.

Amosov and his people were withdrawing in line. They didn-t have time to come even to the middle of the hill when were exposed to fire from above by Ldukhs&#1110; who demolished the covering group. They managed to move for another ten metres but were doomed to. Having let Russian group to approach at distance of 50 metres, Pakistan soldiers rose above their shelters and fired to our group. Everything was over for half a minute. They approached to our soldiers, finished wounded ones, took weapon, ammunition, took their shoes off and taking off the uniform from Ltsarandoy&#1110; left the place.

All that happened in range of vision of armoured group, located still near the kishlak. They even tried to fire with automatic grenade launchers, but the distance was too far. The surrounding and liquidation of Soviet- Afghan group was done very fast and clear that proves the *presence of Pakistan special forces group LBlack stork&#1110;* . Our groups met them even in Pandzhsher, place pretty far away of Pakistan border. Many rifles shells with Pakistan marks were found on the place of combat as well as uniform beret of LBlack storks&#1110;

Only one sergeant, from the 2nd platoon of the 7th company, survived, wounded in the very beginning of the combat and put behind stones by his comrades where he was lying for few hours. When our groups approached the place of combat they found lieutenant Amosov in small stria with a machine gun in his hands. His body was riddled with bullets. Dead lieutenant Demtchenko and some soldiers had grenades in their hands. Considering the position of private Gadzhiev they found out he-d blown up a grenade under himself.

Having considering the reasons of the tragedy few versions of what happened were issued. Those versions defamed memory of killed warriors. By that commanders of the battalion and the 7th company just underlined their unscrupulous methods. But all killed warriors, who took the general thrust, aimed to a battalion, still are heroes, in memory of their comrades.

We didn&#39;t set ourselves as an object consideration of the reasons of the tragedy and all its details. We just want you to know about that heroic episode of Afghan war. And we remember names of lost Soviet warriors.

Here they are:

Lieutenants:

AMOSOV Sergey Anatolievich
DEMCHENKO Georgy Alexandrovich

Sergeants and soldiers:

ARTEMENKOV Alexandr Anatolievich
BALANDIN Sergey Victorovich
BOCHKIN Boris Alexeevich
GADZHIEV Nukhitdin Omarovich
GALIY Vitaly Vasilievich
GNEDOY Victor Vladimirovich
KACHKOVSKY Nicolay Eugenievich
KORSHUNOV Mikhail Victorovich
LOSEV Alexandr Jurievich
LUTSAY Alexandr Vladimirovich
MIRZAKARIMOV Abdulkhamid Abdukalamovich
RYAZANOV Jury Petrovich
TURLYBAEV Serkibay Kaybagorovich
FADEEV Victor Arsentievich

Lieutenant G. Demchenko was posthumously awarded a status of a Hero of Soviet Union (the highest award in former Soviet Union).

Lieutenant S. Amosov was posthumously awarded a status of a Hero of Russia in 1994 by the decree of the President.


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/missions-conducted-by-ssgs.357/#post-2906

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## Thorough Pro

It's such a useless gun, I am astonished to see it in the hands of a military person




PanzerKiel said:


> Mac-10
> View attachment 688177


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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336273521945796610


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## Ahmet Pasha

Vapour said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336273521945796610


Marines have a new digicam right??


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## Metal 0-1

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Marines have a new digicam right??


That's right.

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## ghazi52



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## Vapour

Couple of SSG operators doing VVIP protection for the COAS from today's/yesterday's, depending on time zones, exercise demonstration of integrated air defence near Gujranwala.

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## ghazi52

*Siachen Glacier*

Troops leaving the base camp for a surveillance mission

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## Metal 0-1

Vapour said:


> View attachment 697025
> 
> 
> Couple of SSG operators doing VVIP protection for the COAS from today's/yesterday's, depending on time zones, exercise demonstration of integrated air defence near Gujranwala.


Guy on the right is from SSW


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## Metal 0-1

SSGOPERATOR said:


>


Do you find this relevant to this thread?

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## ghazi52

*Siachen Glacier*

Soldiers packing up supplies at base camp

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## ghazi52

*Cherat Cantonment Nowshera, Circa 1870.*








From an Album of Miscellaneous views in India, taken in the 1870s. Cherat, on the west of the Khattak range of hills was established as a sanatorium in 1861 by the British so that troops in the North West Frontier Province could escape the heat and disease of the Peshawar valley. It was declared a cantonment in 1886 and became the summer headquarters of troops in the Peshawar area.









British Troops Encamped In The Hills At Cherat, Pakistan, The Impending Afghan War.

Illustration From The Magazine The Graphic, Volume XVIII, No 468 - November 16, 1878.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam O Alaikum










Note: Different media pics not of the same person.


Metal 0-1 said:


> Do you find this relevant to this thread?


Sorry Bro, Just got a suggestion from YouTube so I thought I should share it in this thread for SF vibes...

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## SSGOPERATOR

Metal 0-1 said:


> SSW Elite Operators with FN SCAR H 17(hybrid sight;Aimpoint Comp m4 +3x Magnifier) and second one with Probably Remington RSASS.
> View attachment 567891
> 
> 
> They just need Fancy gear to wear and they will look like Totally US SOCOM Operators✌✌


They look awesome. Any more pics like the one in your post???


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## SSGOPERATOR

For your wallpaper:-




























https://youtu.be/W98h4OP0YY0
NOTE:- None of this is my personal production

STAY MUSLIM
STAY HUMBLE
STAY DANGEROUS
STAY AN SSG COMMANDO

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## ghazi52

1914- 18

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## ghazi52

Crest Rock, Cherat, C.1904

Photograph, India, North West Frontier, 1904 (c).

Cherat, located in the Peshawar District, was a hill cantonment and sanatorium for British troops stationed in the hot and malaria-ridden Peshawar Valley. Many of the troops sent there carved and painted their regimental insignia on to nearby rock faces to mark their service on the frontier.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam O Alaikum


ghazi52 said:


> Crest Rock, Cherat, C.1904
> 
> Photograph, India, North West Frontier, 1904 (c).
> 
> Cherat, located in the Peshawar District, was a hill cantonment and sanatorium for British troops stationed in the hot and malaria-ridden Peshawar Valley. Many of the troops sent there carved and painted their regimental insignia on to nearby rock faces to mark their service on the frontier.
> 
> 
> View attachment 699068


Looks very classic. Good old days

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## Metal 0-1

Zarrar in 80s

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## Vapour

Can't verify if at LOC, but a supposed patrol of a joint regulars + SSG team:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342522020928630790

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## Vapour




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## Ahmet Pasha

Vapour said:


>


How old is that video???


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## Vapour

Ahmet Pasha said:


> How old is that video???



2016 - mentioned in the video.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Added by @zarrar_003 Instagram post Sniper fire #ssg #sniper #pakarmy #commandos #blackstroke #pakarmylovers - Picuki.com


Instagram post added by zarrar_003 Sniper fire #ssg #sniper #pakarmy #commandos #blackstroke #pakarmylovers - Picuki.com




www.picuki.com


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## Metal 0-1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Added by @zarrar_003 Instagram post Sniper fire #ssg #sniper #pakarmy #commandos #blackstroke #pakarmylovers - Picuki.com
> 
> 
> Instagram post added by zarrar_003 Sniper fire #ssg #sniper #pakarmy #commandos #blackstroke #pakarmylovers - Picuki.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.picuki.com


How to become deaf 101.


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## SSGOPERATOR

Metal 0-1 said:


> How to become deaf 101.


Yup. Listen it continuously for about a hour and you will reach your goals.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

BTW the Zarrar pic you shared was MashAllah Awesome. Anymore especially with new gear????


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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum






at 3:20 in the video look at the dummy shooting targets. You will find out something that will make you roll on the floor.


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## ghazi52



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## Metal 0-1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Yup. Listen it continuously for about a hour and you will reach your goals.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> BTW the Zarrar pic you shared was MashAllah Awesome. Anymore especially with new gear????


Two shots will get the job done.

Zarrar pics are not easy to find.

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## ghazi52



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## SSGOPERATOR

Metal 0-1 said:


> Two shots will get the job done.
> 
> Zarrar pics are not easy to find.
> View attachment 702571





ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 702755


Assalam o Alaikum
MashAllah Bravo.
Thanks for the pics. I just wanted to see some new upgraded gear. 
BTW how did the "FN SCAR H 17(hybrid sight;Aimpoint Comp m4 +3x Magnifier)", "Remington RSASS" and "Viper A3 Helmets" go? Have they been inducted yet? Any pics of that?


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## Reichmarshal

Metal 0-1 said:


> Two shots will get the job done.
> 
> Zarrar pics are not easy to find.
> View attachment 702571



intel spec op unit.

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## Metal 0-1

Reichmarshal said:


> intel spec op unit.


Don't worry it's a old picture. Have posted before.

They are training infantry guys not present in OA


SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> MashAllah Bravo.
> Thanks for the pics. I just wanted to see some new upgraded gear.
> BTW how did the "FN SCAR H 17(hybrid sight;Aimpoint Comp m4 +3x Magnifier)", "Remington RSASS" and "Viper A3 Helmets" go? Have they been inducted yet? Any pics of that?


SCAR-17 and Remington RSASS were just tested but never inducted. Because of high price. 

SSW use 3x Magnifiers with their EoTechs and Aimpoints.

There are reports Viper A3 is inducted but nothing solid.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Reichmarshal said:


> intel spec op unit.





Metal 0-1 said:


> Don't worry it's a old picture. Have posted before.
> 
> They are training infantry guys not present in OA
> 
> SCAR-17 and Remington RSASS were just tested but never inducted. Because of high price.
> 
> SSW use 3x Magnifiers with their EoTechs and Aimpoints.
> 
> There are reports Viper A3 is inducted but nothing solid.


Asslam o Alaikum
JazakAllah for the reply.
Intel spec ops unit??? What's that??? What do you mean???


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## Reichmarshal

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Asslam o Alaikum
> JazakAllah for the reply.
> Intel spec ops unit??? What's that??? What do you mean???



It means exactly wt I stated above

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## SSGOPERATOR

Reichmarshal said:


> It means exactly wt I stated above


Assalam o Alaikum
Can't understand bro. Please clearly explain coz i am a stupid person....


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## gangsta_rap

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Asslam o Alaikum
> JazakAllah for the reply.
> Intel spec ops unit??? What's that??? What do you mean???











Covert Action Division - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org







SSGOPERATOR said:


> i am a stupid person....



ur not stupid u just have a terrible state of self esteem

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## SSGOPERATOR

gangsta_rap said:


> Covert Action Division - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ur not stupid u just have a terrible state of self esteem


Assalam o Alaikum
JazakAllah for the answer but bro everyone here knows that the pic was of Zarrar ATU then why were they relating it with Covert Action Division(intel spec ops unit)


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## Zapper

Metal 0-1 said:


> Two shots will get the job done.
> 
> Zarrar pics are not easy to find.
> View attachment 702571


From pics floating on the internet, it seems like Zarrar boys look more beefier and buffed up compared to SSG or regular units. Is that something pertaining to their training or a prereq?


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## Metal 0-1

Zapper said:


> From pics floating on the internet, it seems like Zarrar boys look more beefier and buffed up compared to SSG or regular units. Is that something pertaining to their training or a prereq?


I didn't find anything like you mentioned. Everybody I saw had physique of a Football player. Which is normal for SF.

Maybe you found this so can't say.


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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348662614285574146

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## ghazi52

"He might not be able to clear the Staff College Test, but to go Afghanistan; catch the President Najeeb will be a piece of cake for him". Stating the above, Time Magazine declared him as the number one free fall diver of the world. 

His journey of valor started when he was commissioned in PMA after his graduation from Gordon's College Rawalpindi. He was considered as the best cricketer of the college. Pakistani Star Cricketer Fazal Mehmood (also known as The Hero of the Oval) predicted him to be the best future cricketer of Pakistan. But fate decided something else for him. PMA was waiting for him. There he proved his mettle in every walk of soldiery.

It was 1965, he was preparing for a specialized course with Delta Force in USA. The Operation Gibraltar was announced. Refusing to join the course, he joined the operation. He was lost in Kashmir during the operation and was announced as "Missing believed Killed", but one day he approached a nearby post of Kashmir sector and soon identified by the authorities. 

He was soon recognized as the symbolic and mythical character of the SSG. In an early age, he was appointed as in-charge of Para Training School. Major Shabbir Shareef Nishan e Haider also got the PTW under his strict command. In the chaotic era of 1971, he was a potential threat to the Mukti Bahni and Indian Army. After the surrender, every Indian Army official was in search of this legend, but he was already in West Pakistan and no one was able to capture him.

When a plane of Air India was hijacked and brought to Pakistan, it was him and his two comrades who managed to arrest the hijackers and free the hostages without firing even a single bullet.

On an unfortunate morning of May 29, 1989, he jumped for a free fall. He opened his main parachute but the para chords were tangled. He opened his reserve parachute but it also failed to open. When a paratrooper lands, he adopts a certain posture i.e. bit leaned left, facing the ground. As his chutes failed to open, his martyrdom was certain, but that stone nerved person was still adopting the same posture. His velocity increased his weight up to tons, he fell and embraced martyrdom at the spot.

It was his performance which led him to the higher brass. He used to wear a black overall like all the paratroopers do, but he decorated his outfit by writing یااللہ (Oh Allah) on it.

The name of this legend is Brigadier Tariq Mehmood also known as TM Tiger. He was such a legendary and mythical character that still GOCs of SSG follow the example that he set.

On the parade of March 23, 2015 Maj Gen Abid Rafique whereas from March 23,2016 till 2019, ex GOC SSG Maj Gen Tahir Masood Bhutta dived in the outfit decorated with the words of Ya Allah.

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## PanzerKiel



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## Reichmarshal

every commander/GOC SSG since brig. TM has worn the jumpsuit with ya ALLAH written on the chest.

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 706087


I suppose somewhere in Yuma, Arizona Military Free Fall school.


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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> I suppose somewhere in Yuma, Arizona Military Free Fall school.


Nopes, that's a C130 ramp over Tarbela... Both SSG officers.

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> Nopes, that's a C130 ramp over Tarbela... Both SSG officers.


and SSG officer wearing Crye Multicam Combat Pants, Solomon boots and a US Army MFF School shirt which are not issued and ramp of USAF C-27. So, yeah hopefully SSG.

That guy is clearly a US Army MFF Instructor and SSG are under training in Arizona.


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## PanzerKiel

Metal 0-1 said:


> and SSG officer wearing Crye Multicam Combat Pants, Solomon boots and a US Army MFF School shirt which are not issued and ramp of USAF C-27. So, yeah hopefully SSG.
> 
> That guy is clearly a US Army MFF Instructor and SSG are under training in Arizona.


Those pants are his personal thing, not the regular one.... 

Moreover, both the officers are close friends of mine, one of them just gave me this pic this evening.... He lives next door to me.... So...

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## AMG_12

Metal 0-1 said:


> I suppose somewhere in Yuma, Arizona Military Free Fall school.


Can see Ghazi Barotha Canal above the ramp

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## krash

Metal 0-1 said:


> and ramp of USAF C-27.



Not a C-27's ramp. The C-27's ramp has a single almost vertical support strut extending from the fuselage wall.







Some C-130 Models have 2 support struts. One like on the C-27 and then another attached more at an angle and extending out from the interior.








You can clearly notice the angle of the strut and its attachment point in the picture.

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## ghazi52

PHOTO COURTESY: Twitter/@shamsi90

South Africa spinner Tabraiz Shamsi seems impressed with the tight security in Pakistan, after the Proteas arrived in Karachi on Saturday.

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## TsAr

PanzerKiel said:


> Those pants are his personal thing, not the regular one....
> 
> Moreover, both the officers are close friends of mine, one of them just gave me this pic this evening.... He lives next door to me.... So...


so to meet you now we just have to find this soldier

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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351226598251368449

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## Falcon26

Vapour said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351226598251368449



Why is it Pakistani special Forces rarely wear gloves or modern helmets worn by other elite units? Is it due to cost?


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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353572263568801793

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## PanzerKiel

Vapour said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353572263568801793


Dear, the man is real. However, he hasnt done all these courses.

This picture is taken specifically from the point of view of army dress rules... So that every one knows that insignia of which course is supposed to be worn at what location on a uniform.

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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1355203592257482753

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## ghazi52

War hero of 1965 and 1971 Colonel Suleman ( SSG ), also known as Suleman the Magnificent

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## ghazi52



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## Path-Finder

would SSW do better with the ST Kinetics SAR-21?


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## iLION12345_1

Falcon26 said:


> Why is it Pakistani special Forces rarely wear gloves or modern helmets worn by other elite units? Is it due to cost?


That picture is old. All Pakistani personnel when deployed wear gloves and modern helmets. Knee pads and elbow pads and so on. Regular troops too, not just SF. 
for SF at the end of the day it comes down to personal preference, if they want to wear something they do, if not then they know better. Gloves aren’t instantly an upgrade in many cases.


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## ghazi52



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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357365750055505927

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## ghazi52

It was 1970 and *Brigadier Tariq Mehmood (T.M Tiger) *was on a specialised course for Para Jump in Fort Bragg paratrooping school in America. During the course, he came to know about the lowest altitude parachute opening record, held by a British and an Indian paratrooper. In this jump even a few meters matters because if a paratrooper enters in the high air pressure zone, the ropes of parachute get tangled which cripples the parachute and the paratrooper might fall directly on the ground. Indian paratrooper was in India, but the British paratrooper was in Fort Bragg those days.

TM asked his instructor to arrange a competition between him and the British guy. A date was decided for the competition. 

On the specific day, both jumpers made the plunge from the air craft. All the students and faculty of the school was gathered to see the competition. Although TM was famous for his past records and was famous among Pakistan army and Special Forces of the world, everyone was expecting that the British guy will win the competition. Time was passing swiftly and both paratroopers were heading towards ground without opening their parachutes. The critical limit where parachutes were to be opened at any cost was near. 

At last, on a very low altitude, British opened his parachute. After a few seconds, TM opened his chute as well. TM visibly gained victory over the British. Everyone was stunned at the moment. “How were you able to control yourself, didn't you see the altimeter?”asked one of his fellow American students. “What altimeter? I was keeping an eye on the British and I decided that I will open my chute after he opens it”, TM calmly replied. The record of TM was registered in the record book.

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## ghazi52



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## Vapour

@Ghost 125 Nice to see you back.

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## Ghost 125

Vapour said:


> @Ghost 125 Nice to see you back.


thanks buddy

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## ghazi52

Post Office Cherat (Post Office), Circa 1905.







Illustrated postcards often celebrated the post offices that made their rapid spread possible. This was a particularly popular postcard even though Cherat, 4,500 feet above sea level, was a distant army cantonment in the Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP, now KPK). From here many British military expeditions were launched along the Afghan frontier, and it is likely that Baljee, the photographer who published it, often came through as he accompanied the troops as a military photographer.


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## PanzerKiel



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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358630958279327745

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## Great Janjua

What happened to the supposed new camo the SSG were to induct


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## ghazi52

Special forces from both countries will participate in the drills being held in Tarbela


Our Correspondent February 09, 2021








The joint military exercise between Pakistani and Turkish special forces commenced on Tuesday with the opening ceremony taking place at the Special Service Group Headquarters in Tarbela.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

Freedom isn't free, it cost a soldier a day !
Lt. General Gul Hassan Khan congratulating SSG Commandos .
Behind him is Brig Akram Syed.

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## PanzerKiel

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 715428
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom isn't free, it cost a soldier a day !
> Lt. General Gul Hassan Khan congratulating SSG Commandos .
> Behind him is Brig Akram Syed.


This picture is post 65 war, here he's Brig Gul Hassan, as DMO, meeting SSG individuals who managed to extricate back from India after their para drops behind enemy lines. 

A case was taken up to disband SSG due to their apparent dismal performance in 1965 war. However, once the real details came up light.... Bad intelligence, no time for preparation, no recce etc etc,.... The idea was dropped.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Vapour said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1355203592257482753


Sab ko batao İndia ko TTP ko BLA ko. Mein Pakistan special forces/SSW mein if anyone wants retribution for any raids İ conducted on your terrorist colleagues. Please come kill me and my family. 

Like that SSG guy who died in a park in İslamabad not too long ago.


Vapour said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358630958279327745


Hidden faces now thats more like it.

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## ghazi52

SSG - CHERAT MAY 1963....

General Musa

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## Vapour

PanzerKiel said:


> This picture is post 65 war, here he's Brig Gul Hassan, as DMO, meeting SSG individuals who managed to extricate back from India after their para drops behind enemy lines.
> 
> A case was taken up to disband SSG due to their apparent dismal performance in 1965 war. However, once the real details came up light.... Bad intelligence, no time for preparation, no recce etc etc,.... The idea was dropped.



Were all involved in the op, SSG? I've heard that it involved regular infantry too.


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## PanzerKiel

Vapour said:


> Were all involved in the op, SSG? I've heard that it involved regular infantry too.


Para drops behind enemy lines were solely undertaken by SSG. Regular infantry was neither trained nor equipped for such operations.

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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360507836543995905

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## SSGOPERATOR

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Sab ko batao İndia ko TTP ko BLA ko. Mein Pakistan special forces/SSW mein if anyone wants retribution for any raids İ conducted on your terrorist colleagues. Please come kill me and my family.
> 
> Like that SSG guy who died in a park in İslamabad not too long ago.
> 
> Hidden faces now thats more like it.


Assalam o Alaikum
Yup bro dil ko sakoon aya hidden identities dekh kar.
Please someone tell me that they are now ordered to hide their identites. Please.


----------



## ghazi52

Remembering...
*Captain Sikander Khan Khattak*

A officer from Shaidu, Nowshera, he laid down his life while serving as the adjutant of the 2ⁿᵈ Commando, when the unit was ambushed on the road to Comilla, on 28ᵗʰ March 1971.

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## ghazi52

From Tiger Hill to South Waziristan, Sierra Leone to Lal Masjid. zarrar's roll of honour. "Nay, they are living. with their Lord they have provision."

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## ghazi52

circa 1963 Attock Fort during his service with 19 Baluch (SSG). Gen. Hayat is featured in the center, with Captain TM on his right.

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## ghazi52

Captain Akmal Khan Tamgha-e-Basalat ASC / 2 Commando Bn "Rahber" 26 November 1986 Quaid OP .
Left us when the post was struck by an avalanche, causing his death due to frostbite. 

Standing at the left with Lieutenant Durrani, after completion of the OACC.

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## ghazi52

Lance Naik Imdad Ali Tamgha-e-Basalat Artillery / Special Service Group 
16 September 2007 Pash Ziarat, Shawal Valley North Waziristan Tribal District.

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## ghazi52

LTC Haroon "Terra" Islam. 12 years have passed since the Lal Masjid battle. 
A lot has changed, nothing has changed.

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## ghazi52

MG (retd.) Ameer Faisal Alavi 26 Cavalry / SSG Topped his OACC, commanded the SSG from '99-01, then returned as it's first GOC when the outfit was given division-level status. 

Instrumental in the SSG direct-action raids in South Waziristan, with the newly formed Spec Ops TF.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum
Can someone kindly explain what are the capabilities of Zarrar Coy? I know it is meant for Anti-Terrorism but what exactly involves in "Anti-Terrorism"? This is a very confusing term for me....


----------



## Kompromat

They kill. 



SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> Can someone kindly explain what are the capabilities of Zarrar Coy? I know it is meant for Anti-Terrorism but what exactly involves in "Anti-Terrorism"? This is a very confusing term for me....

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## ghazi52

Maidan, Tirah Valley June 2013...

It couldn't get tougher for the Special Service Group.

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## ghazi52

lest we forget,
Captain Roohullah Mohmand
Tamgha-e-Jurat 
50ᵗʰ Baloch / 2ⁿᵈ LCB "Jarrar" Bn
Night of 24 October 2016
Police Training Academy, Quetta
who made the ultimate sacrifice while taking on LeJ and Daesh scum.

Forever in debt.

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## ghazi52

Sepoy Rabnawaz
Tamgha-e-Basalat 
Zarrar Jarri (ATU) 
Martyred in action during the rescue operation at GHQ Rawalpindi, in October 2009. 
ہم کوئی شہادت نہیں بھولے.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Horus said:


> They kill.


Assalam o Alaikum

I know that Pakistan's Army doesn't just kill but hunt the enemy down
but explanation please,


----------



## Kompromat

I've explained what Zarrar does. They carry out kill missions. No baggage. 




SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> 
> I know that Pakistan's Army doesn't just kill but hunt the enemy down
> but explanation please,

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## SSGOPERATOR

Horus said:


> I've explained what Zarrar does. They carry out kill missions. No baggage.


Ok so basically they knock down the doors of terrorist(even paramilitary soldiers ) says Salam o Alaikum and then ship them to Allah in hell at 299,792.458 km per second

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## Path-Finder



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## SSGOPERATOR

Path-Finder said:


>


Assalam o Alaikum
Thanks bro. Exactly the content I was searching for...

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## SSGOPERATOR

You will find a Turkish Operator using C-Clamp on the M4 Colt Commando so technically SSG has learnt these techniques but for some reason is not applying them...
And InshAllah other 25 Special Forces military exercises coming soon........


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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum
Ever seen a real life Captain Price????
Well I got a better one for you:




Don't forget to say MashAllah


----------



## Caprxl

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Ever seen a real life Captain Price????
> Well I got a better one for you:



Well resemblance is there 


SSGOPERATOR said:


> Ever seen a real life Captain Price????
> Well I got a better one for you:



Well resemblance is there

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## ghazi52

Pakistan Turkey Special Services Group joint drills Zarrar Boys

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## ghazi52

My salute to those who stay there for the country defence.......      







.


Cause of their sacrifices...we peacefully sleep in our homes.....

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## ghazi52

General Musa Khan pins the Sitara-e-Jurat on Major Shakur Jan; Bravo Company commander of the 15ᵗʰ FF, during the capture of Biarbet from the 3ʳᵈ Para, on 26ᵗʰ April 1965. an SS Group officer, he commanded the "Yaldram" Battalion during counter-insurgency operations in East Pakistan.

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## ghazi52

Joint Exercise..





.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum
Is Zarrar Company the best unit of SSG???
Sorry I am new to Special Forces stuff so have a lot of questions(I know some are stupid but Kindly reply)...
JazakAllah


----------



## Neurath

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> Is Zarrar Company the best unit of SSG???
> Sorry I am new to Special Forces stuff so have a lot of questions(I know some are stupid but Kindly reply)...
> JazakAllah


Zarrar is like the most elite counter terrorism unit we have. I don't think there is a 'best' unit', all units are meant for a specific role.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Neurath said:


> Zarrar is like the most elite counter terrorism unit we have. I don't think there is a 'best' unit', all units are meant for a specific role.


JazakAllah for the answer
Can you tell me the specific role of all units and what in your opinion is best(your most favourite)
and




Can someone explain this video please


----------



## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1363132094176587783

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## Amaa'n

ghazi52 said:


> My salute to those who stay there for the country defence.......
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 717529
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Cause of their sacrifices...we peacefully sleep in our homes.....


----------



## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum
Can someone please tell me the specific roles of all SSG units and which one is the best in your opinion..


----------



## Vapnope

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> Can someone please tell me the specific roles of all SSG units and which one is the best in your opinion..


This document might answer your question.


----------



## Sunny4pak



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## SSGOPERATOR

Vapnope said:


> This document might answer your question.


JazakAllah but I have read it already and I couldn't understand it much
Can someone kindly write an answer here.
Please


----------



## ghazi52

.








Pakistan Turkey Special Services Group joint drills

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## ghazi52

Naval SSG

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum

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## ghazi52



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## Metal 0-1

SSG-N Operator alongside allied SF units during AMAN-21.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum


Metal 0-1 said:


> SSG-N Operator alongside allied SF units during AMAN-21.
> View attachment 721549


So are they now trained to hide their faces? Definitely not a surgical mask.


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## Metal 0-1




----------



## PanzerKiel

Brig Amir Gulistan Janjua as CO of Gen Pervez Musharaf, 3 Cdo.

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## ghazi52

PAF Special Service Wing (SSW) members pose for a group photo after the ‘First Free Fall Course’ which is also carried out at PAF Para-School Risalpur - circa 2003. 

[Picture Courtesy: DPR, PAF]

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## Metal 0-1

Finally some good Comtac Peltors and PTTs in conjunction with helmet.

He is better off if he ditch elbow pads.
SSW at Sakardu AFB

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## Ghost 125

Metal 0-1 said:


> Finally some good Comtacts Peltors and PTTs in conjunction with helmet.
> 
> He is better off if he ditch elbow pads.
> SSW at Sakardu AFB
> View attachment 724468


why do you think, he is better off without elbow pads ?

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## Metal 0-1

Ghost 125 said:


> why do you think, he is better off without elbow pads ?


Thing is elbow pads don't even protect elbows it's more like forearm pad. Prime Example.


Knee pads also sometime later become ankle protection no matter how much you tight it. When crouching down it just slides down and leave knee uncovered.






In my opinion any knee and elbow protection which is wore over combat BDU is useless. Because they they don't protect the said part.

Elbow and Knee padding sown in Combat Shirt and Pants are something that work great.

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## Ghost 125

Metal 0-1 said:


> Elbow and Knee padding sown in Combat Shirt and Pants are something that work great.


agreed with this part

for the rest,, knee or elbow pads can become cumbersome sometimes but they also come handy in different situations.

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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=454949912414011

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## ghazi52

*circa 1974 *

Havaldar Karam Elahi embarks on a free-fall jump over the Durrani DZ, at the Para Training Wing, Peshawar. Sarge was HALO-qualified and probably the most experienced skydiver in the Army!

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

PAF

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## Khan_patriot

Metal 0-1 said:


> Thing is elbow pads don't even protect elbows it's more like forearm pad. Prime Example.
> 
> 
> Knee pads also sometime later become ankle protection no matter how much you tight it. When crouching down it just slides down and leave knee uncovered.
> View attachment 724520
> 
> 
> In my opinion any knee and elbow protection which is wore over combat BDU is useless. Because they they don't protect the said part.


Ever tried taking a knee during a 15 min tactical halt in rocky ground. 😂
Thats what the kneepad is for. 
Also as far as the knee pad slipping is concerned the non velcro ones with circular clamps doesnt slip. As for the elbow pads.

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## Metal 0-1

Khan_patriot said:


> Ever tried taking a knee during a 15 min tactical halt in rocky ground. 😂
> Thats what the kneepad is for.
> Also as far as the knee pad slipping is concerned the non velcro ones with circular clamps doesnt slip. As for the elbow pads.


Well definitely took knee on asphalt road. 

Hey man, personal opinions. One thing works for you that's good. Knee pads are definitely worth it but slipping down with time is something I don't like.


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## ghazi52

ooncha hoon main, girna nahi chahta.. 
chahay mann jalay, ya tann jal jayay..

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## Last starfighter




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## Reichmarshal

Last starfighter said:


>


bs video and analysis doesn't know anything and just pissing in the wind

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## ghazi52

*"The gem cannot be polished without friction, nor man perfected without trials." 
*

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

*PARATROOPERS of Special Services Group (SSG) sky diving over Islamabad!*


Air Borne
Sky Divers
Air Romance
Paratroopers
Special Services Group







__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2070790533063249

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52




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## ghazi52




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## ghazi52

Light Commando Battalion, Baloch Regiment

Especially created to protect CPEC
Trained by Special Service Group (SSG)

When protecting our most important assets

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=498588741137659

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## Reichmarshal

ghazi52 said:


> Light Commando Battalion, Baloch Regiment
> 
> Especially created to protect CPEC
> Trained by Special Service Group (SSG)
> 
> When protecting our most important assets
> 
> 
> View attachment 728668
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 728669
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 728670


not true
the work to bridge the gap between regular infantry and spec ops on the lines of u.s army rangers had begun well before even the talk of cpec came to fore. The result being LCB.
The Div. raised for the protection of cpec is not all lcb but has elements of lcb.

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## iLION12345_1

Reichmarshal said:


> not true
> the work to bridge the gap between regular infantry and spec ops on the lines of u.s army rangers had begun well before even the talk of cpec came to fore. The result being LCB.
> The Div. raised for the protection of cpec is not all lcb but has elements of lcb.


Yes, many countries have such intermediate forces between Regulars and SFs, Turkey has a very similar force, the US army rangers as mentioned above are another example.


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## ghazi52

Captain Muhammad Iqbal Khan Shaheed




Pride of SSG 3 Commando (Pawinda) Battalion, ASC 56 SnT Bn, Army and The Nation.

Honorable Captain Muhammad Iqbal Khan Shaheed, Hilal-e-Jurat was a gallant SSG Officer, who embraced martyrdom over an altitude of 21,000 feet at the world's highest battle zone 'Siachen Glaciers' on September 25, 1987 while defending the motherland, to be immortal.

His body remained missing for 11 months in snow, finally recovered in action and buried on 6th August 1988.

Captain Muhammad Iqbal Khan was awarded the Second Highest Military Award, *Hilal-e-Jurat* by the Government of Pakistan while he was still missing in action.

May Allah SWT grant Him Highest Ranks in Jannah

Ameen.

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## ghazi52



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## SSGOPERATOR

Our spec ops organization is almost like UK SAS
SSG is Tier-1
Zarrar is like the Special Projects Team of Pakistan Tier 1
And the other units act like Mountain, Boat, Amphibious, Mobility Troop
Everyone is trained in everything but is devoted to only some scope of warfare...

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## bhola record

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Our spec ops organization is almost like UK SAS
> SSG is Tier-1
> Zarrar is like the Special Projects Team of Pakistan Tier 1
> And the other units act like Mountain, Boat, Amphibious, Mobility Troop
> Everyone is trained in everything but is devoted to only some scope of warfare...


Before we had a specific company for specific function.Now we have battalions

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## ghazi52



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## SSGOPERATOR

bhola record said:


> Before we had a specific company for specific function.Now we have battalions


Yes, but it is a ratio thing.
British Army has a strength of about 150,070. About 300 personnel apply in each batch for Special Forces and about 30 recruits pass the Selection and Training.
Pakistan Army has a strength of about 654,000 . About 1000 personnel apply in each batch for Special Forces and 80-100 recruits pass the Selection and Training.

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## ghazi52



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## bhola record

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Yes, but it is a ratio thing.
> British Army has a strength of about 150,070. About 300 personnel apply in each batch for Special Forces and about 30 recruits pass the Selection and Training.
> Pakistan Army has a strength of about 654,000 . About 1000 personnel apply in each batch for Special Forces and 80-100 recruits pass the Selection and Training.


I think SAS has 3 regiments now.


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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

*Life at Siachen*

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## ghazi52

*Break Time*

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## SSGOPERATOR

bhola record said:


> I think SAS has 3 regiments now.


2 reserves 1 active
21 and 23 SAS regiment(Reserves) part of 1st Intelligence Surveillance and Reconnaissance Brigade 
22 SAS regiment part of UKSF

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## ghazi52

Pakistani soldiers making their way to the forward check posts in -37°C to -50°C on the world's most inhospitable and highest battlefield where they will be completely cut from the world surviving on limited ration for weeks before changing Shift, Baltoro Sector

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## Falcon26

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 730589
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 730590



The equipment worn by the Pakistani special forces are almost none existence when compared to the American servicemen. It’s time for Pakistan to invest in its special forces and equip them with the same gear that other special forces have. Even the afghani special forces have better gear than Pakistan.

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## iLION12345_1

Falcon26 said:


> The equipment worn by the Pakistani special forces are almost none existence when compared to the American servicemen. It’s time for Pakistan to invest in its special forces and equip them with the same gear that other special forces have. Even the afghani special forces have better gear than Pakistan.
> View attachment 731058
> View attachment 731059


Exactly what about this is better than what our SF use? In fact these guys aren’t even as well equipped as our regulars…one guy has cut his old helmet with what seems to be a knife to make room for his earpiece. While PA uses proper high cut helmets for this purpose. And the guy above is using an outdated NV sight that even our regulars have mostly phased out. Neither of them are even wearing combat boots. Neither in the second pic have body armor. No combat gloves. Not even helmets. And very basic optics apart from that ACOG.
Individual comms (including ear and mouth pieces) are already standard among regular infantry that are deployed. So are plate carriers, optics, flashlights, lasers, grenade launchers and so on. The only difference is the Old M4 those guys are holding. And I don’t know Pakistanis obsession with old M4s, they’re not much better than AKs. And certainly not better than what the SSG uses. SSG is very well equipped for its role and task with the amount of money we have, sure there’s always modernization to be done in both equipment and tactics, but modernization takes time and we’ve certainly seen a lot of it in the last 15 years. Not to mention the SSG with it’s apparently “poor” gear has performed better than any Afghan or US special forces could against the Taliban. It’s just that out forces tend to get the job done instead of show off gear 

Look at those, some of them aren’t even recent, and the last one is regular infantry in the helicopter, much better equipped than what people seem to think they have during ops.

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## ghazi52

05/04/2013
"Wasim got an initial bullet wound and his buddy pulled him and made him sit with his back against a rocky boulder. in his last radio call he stated that his ammo had finished and he was pulling out his Glock
." remembering the fallen of Inzar Gul, Tirah; utter carnage.







Captain Razi was an IS recipient from the Swat Operations. led a team from the Hamza Company of the 3 Commando "Powindahs" on that day. his outgunned band of commandos was picked off one by one - the bastards even shot up their bodies at point-blank range.

The 13 who made the ultimate sacrifice - from Havaldar Kafeel Ahmed to Sepoy Asim Ali; Lance Naik Kashif Mahmood to Sepoy Tasawar Hussain, all of 'em fought till the end, and were awarded posthumous TBts. "most sports only need one ball - mine take both." rest easy Wasim.

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## PanzerKiel

ghazi52 said:


> 05/04/2013
> "Wasim got an initial bullet wound and his buddy pulled him and made him sit with his back against a rocky boulder. in his last radio call he stated that his ammo had finished and he was pulling out his Glock
> ." remembering the fallen of Inzar Gul, Tirah; utter carnage.
> 
> View attachment 731130
> 
> 
> 
> Captain Razi was an IS recipient from the Swat Operations. led a team from the Hamza Company of the 3 Commando "Powindahs" on that day. his outgunned band of commandos was picked off one by one - the bastards even shot up their bodies at point-blank range.
> 
> The 13 who made the ultimate sacrifice - from Havaldar Kafeel Ahmed to Sepoy Asim Ali; Lance Naik Kashif Mahmood to Sepoy Tasawar Hussain, all of 'em fought till the end, and were awarded posthumous TBts. "most sports only need one ball - mine take both." rest easy Wasim.


Buddy forever.... Disregard his left hand though.

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> Buddy forever.... Disregard his left hand though.


you knew him? in person?


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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> you knew him? in person?


Yes, for more than 20 years till he died today in 2013.... Today is his shahadat anniversary.... It was a Friday.... It all started early in the morning, was over by 1000 hours.

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> Yes, for more than 20 years till he died today in 2013.... Today is his shahadat anniversary.... It was a Friday.... It all started early in the morning, was over by 1000 hours.


so sorry for your loss.

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## Windjammer



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## Aryeih Leib

Falcon26 said:


> The equipment worn by the Pakistani special forces are almost none existence when compared to the American servicemen. It’s time for Pakistan to invest in its special forces and equip them with the same gear that other special forces have. Even the afghani special forces have better gear than Pakistan.
> View attachment 731058
> View attachment 731059


Afghanis don't have to pay for these goods


----------



## Vapour

ghazi52 said:


> Pakistani soldiers making their way to the forward check posts in -37°C to -50°C on the world's most inhospitable and highest battlefield where they will be completely cut from the world surviving on limited ration for weeks before changing Shift, Baltoro Sector
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 731047



I think these soldiers may be regulars.

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## bhola record

Vapour said:


> I think these soldiers may be regulars.


yup i think standard weaponary for ssg is M4.

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## ghazi52

Capt Wasim ud Din Razi Shaheed





Pride of Nation




Pride of 115LC ex 31PR, 3CDO bn SSG.





Course mate of:

Capt Abbas rizvi shaheed 18SR




Capt Salman sarwar Shaheed 42Lancers




Capt m. Waqas khan shaheed 29Signals




Capt Ansar Abbas Shaheed 1AK




Capt Ali mehmood shaheed 8NLI 5 commando battalion




Lt Faiz sultan Shaheed 4FF




Lt Imran Shaheed




Capt Raja Hasnat Ali Shaheed 58PR

















.

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## ghazi52

SSG Tarbela

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## ghazi52

PanzerKiel said:


> Buddy forever.... Disregard his left hand though.

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## ghazi52



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## PanzerKiel

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 731187


With Waqar, his brother.

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## ghazi52

Counter-Terrorists Win

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## CriticalThought

ghazi52 said:


> Capt Wasim ud Din Razi Shaheed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pride of Nation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pride of 115LC ex 31PR, 3CDO bn SSG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Course mate of:
> 
> Capt Abbas rizvi shaheed 18SR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Capt Salman sarwar Shaheed 42Lancers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Capt m. Waqas khan shaheed 29Signals
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Capt Ansar Abbas Shaheed 1AK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Capt Ali mehmood shaheed 8NLI 5 commando battalion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lt Faiz sultan Shaheed 4FF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lt Imran Shaheed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Capt Raja Hasnat Ali Shaheed 58PR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 731176
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 731177
> 
> .
> 
> 
> View attachment 731178



Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilaihi Raji'oon

Original by @CriticalThought 

Gul-e-Lalah ki sairabi teray lahoo say hay
gulshan main bahar teray dam say hay

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## Inception-06

PanzerKiel said:


> Yes, for more than 20 years till he died today in 2013.... Today is his shahadat anniversary.... It was a Friday.... It all started early in the morning, was over by 1000 hours.


 How can TTP MILITIAS finish commandos, they must have been in overhelming numbers or did get military training ?

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## CriticalThought

Inception-06 said:


> How can TTP MILITIAS finish commandos, they must have been in overhelming numbers or did get military training ?



The tip of the spear is actually a very fragile part. Ram it into steel and it will break. Ram it into flesh and it will kill. The outcome depends on the experience and intelligence of the wielder. When you see a failed SSG operation, ask questions about the planners and commanders who planned and ordered the mission.

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## PanzerKiel

Inception-06 said:


> How can TTP MILITIAS finish commandos, they must have been in overhelming numbers or did get military training ?


First option... Though the situation and environment was much more complex than it seems.

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> First option... Though the situation and environment was much more complex than it seems.


I heard tirah ops was the most bloody operation in whole war on terror timeline.Can you enlighten me more?

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

Captain Salman Shaheed (SBt, TBt) from Zarrar ATU (SSG) was survived by a widow and after 4 months of his shahadat, his son was born.

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## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1377650171916468233

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## ghazi52

The FN F2000 5.56 bullpup rifle, a defining feature of PAF SSW (Special Services Wing)

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## ghazi52

Pakistan Army Mil Mi-17 deploying SSG operatives

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## Zapper

CriticalThought said:


> The tip of the spear is actually a very fragile part. Ram it into steel and it will break. Ram it into flesh and it will kill. The outcome depends on the experience and intelligence of the wielder. When you see a failed SSG operation, ask questions about the planners and commanders who planned and ordered the mission.


how was he killed?


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## Varunastra

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 730589


Just 1 US SF it seems? What's going on here? 



> View attachment 730590


Just jk the front guy looks like the stereotypical image of every Desi dad


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## ghazi52

Beware of an old man in a profession, where men usually die young...

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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380491674015703040

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## ghazi52

*Captain Roohullah Mohmand Shaheed


Unit:......................................* 50th Baloch Regiment (Light commando Battalion SSG).
*Year of Commission:..........* 2012.
*Hometown:...........................* Charsadda Shabqadar (KPK).
*Date of Shahadat (Martyrdom):* 24 October 2016.
*Place of Shahadat:* ..................Police Training Academy Quetta.
*Medal:* ........................................Tamgha-i-Jurat (Medal of Courage).


Ye Ghazi, Ye Tere Purisrar Bande
Jinhain Tu Ne Bakhsha Hai Zuaq-e-Khudai

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## ghazi52

Special Operations Force (SOF), Frontier Corps (FC) Balochistan “We will NEVER allow anyone to use Balochistan as a haven for terrorism” .

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## ghazi52



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## PanzerKiel



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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 732918
> View attachment 732919


recent?

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## bhola record

bhola record said:


> recent?


panerkiel saab!! too many hahas 😂😂😂

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## ghazi52

‏سرحدوں پر سحری اور افطاری کرنے والے محافظوں وطن کے شہزادوں اللہ آپکو اپنی امان میں رکھے ہمیشہ

آمین یا رب العالمین

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## ghazi52



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## bhola record

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 732966


poster boy of SSG.


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## bhola record

Akbar bugti,his son,PM zulfiqar ali bhutto at a ceremony in balochistan with two SSG operators.

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## ghazi52

The Black Storks
Fear is no Policy

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

Boarding Heli

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## ghazi52

Lieutenant General Gul Hassan Khan meeting troopers of the SSG, who exfiltrated back from behind enemy lines.
These commandos most likely belonged to the Liaquat Company of the 1 Commando "Yaldram" Bn, which was inducted during the war at Mandi - part of the Chinar Division's effort to take Poonch.

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## PanzerKiel

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 733534
> 
> 
> 
> 
> January 1972 , Lieutenant General Gul Hassan Khan meeting troopers of the SSG, who exfiltrated back from behind enemy lines.
> These commandos most likely belonged to the Liaquat Company of the 1 Commando "Yaldram" Bn, which was inducted during the war at Mandi - part of the Chinar Division's effort to take Poonch.


These SSG troops aren't the ones which were part of Gibraltar forces.... They are the ones who were dropped behind enemy lines for raids on Adampur, Halwara and Pathankot.


ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 733534
> 
> 
> 
> 
> January 1972 , Lieutenant General Gul Hassan Khan meeting troopers of the SSG, who exfiltrated back from behind enemy lines.
> These commandos most likely belonged to the Liaquat Company of the 1 Commando "Yaldram" Bn, which was inducted during the war at Mandi - part of the Chinar Division's effort to take Poonch.


... And this pic was taken immediately after 1965 war, not 1972.... In the pic, Gen Gul Hasan was DMO in 1965 and tasked to debrief them all since a study was going on to disband SSG due to their apparently dismal performance in 65 war. Gen Mitha later talked Gen Yahya out of it.

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## bhola record

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram
Ignore the music but this is the coolest thing to do.

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## SSGOPERATOR

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 732918
> View attachment 732919


you hid their identities or did they themselves ask you to do it?


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## Ahmet Pasha

bhola record said:


> View attachment 733223
> Akbar bugti,his son,PM zulfiqar ali bhutto at a ceremony in balochistan with two SSG operators.


Irony of ironies isn't it pola g?


ghazi52 said:


> The Black Storks
> Fear is no Policy
> 
> View attachment 733248


Failure is not an option
Great words.


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## bhola record

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Irony of ironies isn't it pola g?


So many ironies.I first saw the pictures and the thought was faith has interconnected all of them.

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## PanzerKiel



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## Ahmet Pasha

Hillybilly prepper channels on Youtube say that 556 is better for home defence or cqb. They say that 7.62 russian goes through walls and may kill innocents. 

Is there any truth to that? If that was true why would France equip GIGN with Bren 2 which uses 7.62 russian, oftentimes in cqb??

Is it because America uses drywall(cardborard like walls with concrete/brick structure as main skeleton) and other countries use brick and cement materials??

Anyone help clear this up?

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## Sine Nomine

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Hillybilly prepper channels on Youtube say that 556 is better for home defence or cqb. They say that 7.62 russian goes through walls and may kill innocents.
> 
> Is there any truth to that? If that was true why would France equip GIGN with Bren 2 which uses 7.62 russian, oftentimes in cqb??
> 
> Is it because America uses drywall(cardborard like walls with concrete/brick structure as main skeleton) and other countries use brick and cement materials??
> 
> Anyone help clear this up?


I hope this would help;


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## iLION12345_1

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Hillybilly prepper channels on Youtube say that 556 is better for home defence or cqb. They say that 7.62 russian goes through walls and may kill innocents.
> 
> Is there any truth to that? If that was true why would France equip GIGN with Bren 2 which uses 7.62 russian, oftentimes in cqb??
> 
> Is it because America uses drywall(cardborard like walls with concrete/brick structure as main skeleton) and other countries use brick and cement materials??
> 
> Anyone help clear this up?


The Americans say 556 is better for anti-personnel usage because it has a tendency to yaw and tumble when inside a body, Dealing maximum damage, instead of going straight through, like a 7.62 would, due to its increased energy. While that does hold some truth, it’s not too much of a difference as to where 7.62 instantly becomes bad in CQB usage. 
The wall penetration argument and civilian casualties also hold some weight, but again, not to the point where it would become an issue, apart from the USA where the materials do in fact play a part in this. It may also just be because home-defense incidents are most common and most reported in the USA due to the amount of weapons owned there and hence the number of civilian casualties from this are naturally higher.
7.62 makes up for any slight disadvantage it may have at longer ranges, where it retains more energy, though out to normal engagement ranges both rounds are effective.

At the end of the day round preference for militaries is more due to their logistical and supply chain reasons, Pakistan could not adopt 5.56 because all of our stocks at 7.62x51 or 7.62x39 and our factories are tooled for those rounds. Similarly in the USA AKs only started becoming common recently, since older AK clones were rather bad there, and 556 was a lot more common, that’s why it became the preferred caliber among civilians, while in Europe due to the G3 and FAL 7.62x51 similarly became the common round.

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## CriticalThought

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Hillybilly prepper channels on Youtube say that 556 is better for home defence or cqb. They say that 7.62 russian goes through walls and may kill innocents.
> 
> Is there any truth to that? If that was true why would France equip GIGN with Bren 2 which uses 7.62 russian, oftentimes in cqb??
> 
> Is it because America uses drywall(cardborard like walls with concrete/brick structure as main skeleton) and other countries use brick and cement materials??
> 
> Anyone help clear this up?



There is no single calibre which is optimal for all scenarios. If you change the type of gunpowder and the metal used in the bullet, 5.56 can start delivering a blow equivalent to a normal 39 mm. You need to pick and choose according to the requirements of the mission.

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## blain2

PanzerKiel said:


> These SSG troops aren't the ones which were part of Gibraltar forces.... They are the ones who were dropped behind enemy lines for raids on Adampur, Halwara and Pathankot.
> 
> ... And this pic was taken immediately after 1965 war, not 1972.... In the pic, Gen Gul Hasan was DMO in 1965 and tasked to debrief them all since a study was going on to disband SSG due to their apparently dismal performance in 65 war. Gen Mitha later talked Gen Yahya out of it.


It wasn't SSG's dismal performance. It was the idiots sitting in GHQ and AHQ who ensured SSG's mission failure.
A lot could be written and said about this issue but the less said the better.

If one gets a chance, they should read "Pakistan Army - War 1965" by Maj Gen Shaukat Riza which is considered the official history of the Army operations in the 65 war. He has one chapter in it that sums up the SSG operations and also where the fault lay.

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## Metal 0-1

SSW guys keeping up with time.

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## ghazi52



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## Reichmarshal

Metal 0-1 said:


> SSW guys keeping up with time.
> View attachment 736356


Nvg during day time is certainly not on...specially when one is running and ducking and weaving etc...with it bobling it impedes ones vision

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## User

ghazi52 said:


> *Captain Roohullah Mohmand Shaheed
> 
> 
> Unit:......................................* 50th Baloch Regiment (Light commando Battalion SSG).
> *Year of Commission:..........* 2012.
> *Hometown:...........................* Charsadda Shabqadar (KPK).
> *Date of Shahadat (Martyrdom):* 24 October 2016.
> *Place of Shahadat:* ..................Police Training Academy Quetta.
> *Medal:* ........................................Tamgha-i-Jurat (Medal of Courage).
> 
> 
> Ye Ghazi, Ye Tere Purisrar Bande
> Jinhain Tu Ne Bakhsha Hai Zuaq-e-Khudai


He was from 125 PMA L/C, aka Mighty Hondas.
Passing out parade was on 21st April, 2012.
The day was also my birthday.
And the coursemates are now Majors.

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## Amaa'n

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Hillybilly prepper channels on Youtube say that 556 is better for home defence or cqb. They say that 7.62 russian goes through walls and may kill innocents.
> 
> Is there any truth to that? If that was true why would France equip GIGN with Bren 2 which uses 7.62 russian, oftentimes in cqb??
> 
> Is it because America uses drywall(cardborard like walls with concrete/brick structure as main skeleton) and other countries use brick and cement materials??
> 
> Anyone help clear this up?




Yes, but given the North America housing structures, it would be same for 556 & 7.62 both will penetrate the drywall at close range... heck at close range even 12g is lethal let alone 7.62

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## ghazi52

Special Service Group Navy

Far left: Steyr AUG 
Center: 2 x M4A1 Carbines 
Far right: Mk 153 SMAW

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## bhola record

ghazi52 said:


> Special Service Group Navy
> 
> Far left: Steyr AUG
> Center: 2 x M4A1 Carbines
> Far right: Mk 153 SMAW
> 
> View attachment 737341


Does SSGN get deployments other than their designated areas these days?

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## iLION12345_1

ghazi52 said:


> Special Service Group Navy
> 
> Far left: Steyr AUG
> Center: 2 x M4A1 Carbines
> Far right: Mk 153 SMAW
> 
> View attachment 737341


Sir that Picture is over 7 years old and posted quite a few times in this thread already. Guy on the far right has an RPG7 and not a SMAW.

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## ghazi52

iLION12345_1 said:


> Sir that Picture is over 7 years old and posted quite a few times in this thread already. Guy on the far right has an RPG7 and not a SMAW.




Is that so bad to post the picture ? at least they are Pakistani solders and I am proud of them not a laughing stock..
Sad.

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## Metal 0-1

Reichmarshal said:


> Nvg during day time is certainly not on...specially when one is running and ducking and weaving etc...with it bobling it impedes ones vision



He must be carrying his NVG for Photo Op purpose.

US Spec Ops carry NODs during day time too. After Black Hawk Down, soldiers started to carry NODs if not mounted in the pack.


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## iLION12345_1

ghazi52 said:


> Is that so bad to post the picture ? at least they are Pakistani solders and I am proud of them not a laughing stock..
> Sad.


Very Sorry sir, had no intention to offend you, was just making a correction

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## ghazi52

Unit insignia of the 2ⁿᵈ Commando "Rahber" Battalion. 
From Chhamb and Chittagong, to Bilafond La and Balochistan - arguably the most bloodied unit of the SS Group, with 17 SJs and 8 TJs to it's name. 
It's motto is "We Lead The Way". giving 'Imperial Eagle' vibes this.

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## ghazi52

Pakistan at Kavkaz2020

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## Ahmet Pasha

ghazi52 said:


> Far right: Mk 153 SMAW


RPG or nah??

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## ghazi52

The entire nation has always stood with Pakistan Army, the same way Pakistan Army has always been there for its citizens in difficult times,

Pakistan Army is the people’s Army

United We Rise

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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel

Capt Ammar Shaheed, SJ, Kargil War (Ammar Shaheed Chowk, Chaklala, Rawalpindi)

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum
Has anyone got pics SSG's latest equipment? Please share..


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## Arsenal Caan

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 739445
> 
> Capt Ammar Shaheed, SJ, Kargil War (Ammar Shaheed Chowk, Chaklala, Rawalpindi)


Thanks for sharing this info. Have crossed the Ammar chowk many time wondering who it was named after. Can you share the story as well?

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## iLION12345_1

Arsenal Caan said:


> Thanks for sharing this info. Have crossed the Ammar chowk many time wondering who it was named after. Can you share the story as well?


You can read it here: https://www.hilal.gov.pk/eng-article/alive-in-martyrdom/MTQ3Nw==.html

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## Vapour

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 739402
> View attachment 739403
> View attachment 739404
> View attachment 739405
> View attachment 739406
> View attachment 739407
> View attachment 739408
> View attachment 739409



First pic - pls can you explain what's on the board?


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## Metal 0-1

Some free fall jump stuff going on


Vapour said:


> First pic - pls can you explain what's on the board?


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## User

Metal 0-1 said:


> Some free fall jump stuff going on


Was about to say, a recap of some necessary aerodynamics.


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## PanzerKiel

Vapour said:


> First pic - pls can you explain what's on the board?


Instructor is teaching regarding HALO insertion... He is an SSG major. 


Arsenal Caan said:


> Thanks for sharing this info. Have crossed the Ammar chowk many time wondering who it was named after. Can you share the story as well?


An Indian brigade level action in Kargil war against Tiger Hill.... in which 8 Sikh, 18 Grenadiers and 2 Naga were pitted against a company / company (+) strength of NLI troops along with SSG reinforcements.

Pre attack bombardment with almost 200 artillery guns and MBRL.

To quote an Indian account

After initial setback and repulsed attacks, 8 Sikh were tasked to capture Helmet and India Gate features in order to cut the supply lines of troops holding out at the top.

8 Sikh managed to capture these features and then prepared hasty defences in order to face the inevitable counter attack.

This counter attack, made by a platoon strength of NLI troops, was launched within 40 minutes (as per our theoretical teachings as well) of 8 Sikh's completion of its operation.

This counter attack managed to make some headway since it was a downhill counterattack. It also achieved tactical surprise since it was preceded by sudden fire of several RPGs which managed to destroy several hastily made sanghars of 8 Sikh. However, due to less strength, 8 Sikh managed to beat back this attack.

8 Sikhs then witness the arrival of two Mi-17s, which came from Pakistan's side and landed two heli-loads of SSG troops under Capt Ammar Hussain (SJ, Ammar Shaheed chowk, Chaklala).

The second counter attack, in the words of CO 8 Sikh, was much fierce since it was a mixed attack, downhill, comprising of SSG and NLI troops led by Capt Sher and Capt Ammar, SSG themselves. This attack managed to penetrate the 8 Sikhs' hasty defences. However, since the counter-attacking were exposed running downhill, they kept on suffering casualties.

Capt Sher was the last one seen RUNNING downhill towards 8 Sikh with a MG1A3 in his hand, firing from his hip while running. However, his ammo was exhausted and at this moment he surrounded by around 50 soldiers of 8 Sikh. CO 8 Sikh was also there. He asked to Capt Sher (unidentified at that moment since he was wearing a dark blue track suit) to lay down his weapon and surrender. Capt Sher, instead, grabbed the MG, moved forwards and tried to hit the CO 8 Sikh with it.

At that time, several Indian soldiers fired and hit Capt Sher. He collapsed on his knees. Soldiers noted that he kept on sitting on his knees but was not falling down despite being hit. Couple of Indian soldiers then came forward and kicked him in order to make him fall down. CO 8 Sikh had to intervene to stop his soldiers from doing that. Capt Sher then finally collapsed and attained shahadat.





[/QUOTE]

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## User

PanzerKiel said:


> Instructor is teaching regarding HALO insertion... He is an SSG major.
> 
> An Indian brigade level action in Kargil war against Tiger Hill.... in which 8 Sikh, 18 Grenadiers and 2 Naga were pitted against a company / company (+) strength of NLI troops along with SSG reinforcements.
> 
> Pre attack bombardment with almost 200 artillery guns and MBRL.
> 
> To quote an Indian account
> 
> After initial setback and repulsed attacks, 8 Sikh were tasked to capture Helmet and India Gate features in order to cut the supply lines of troops holding out at the top.
> 
> 8 Sikh managed to capture these features and then prepared hasty defences in order to face the inevitable counter attack.
> 
> This counter attack, made by a platoon strength of NLI troops, was launched within 40 minutes (as per our theoretical teachings as well) of 8 Sikh's completion of its operation.
> 
> This counter attack managed to make some headway since it was a downhill counterattack. It also achieved tactical surprise since it was preceded by sudden fire of several RPGs which managed to destroy several hastily made sanghars of 8 Sikh. However, due to less strength, 8 Sikh managed to beat back this attack.
> 
> 8 Sikhs then witness the arrival of two Mi-17s, which came from Pakistan's side and landed two heli-loads of SSG troops under Capt Ammar Hussain (SJ, Ammar Shaheed chowk, Chaklala).
> 
> The second counter attack, in the words of CO 8 Sikh, was much fierce since it was a mixed attack, downhill, comprising of SSG and NLI troops led by Capt Sher and Capt Ammar, SSG themselves. This attack managed to penetrate the 8 Sikhs' hasty defences. However, since the counter-attacking were exposed running downhill, they kept on suffering casualties.
> 
> Capt Sher was the last one seen RUNNING downhill towards 8 Sikh with a MG1A3 in his hand, firing from his hip while running. However, his ammo was exhausted and at this moment he surrounded by around 50 soldiers of 8 Sikh. CO 8 Sikh was also there. He asked to Capt Sher (unidentified at that moment since he was wearing a dark blue track suit) to lay down his weapon and surrender. Capt Sher, instead, grabbed the MG, moved forwards and tried to hit the CO 8 Sikh with it.
> 
> At that time, several Indian soldiers fired and hit Capt Sher. He collapsed on his knees. Soldiers noted that he kept on sitting on his knees but was not falling down despite being hit. Couple of Indian soldiers then came forward and kicked him in order to make him fall down. CO 8 Sikh had to intervene to stop his soldiers from doing that. Capt Sher then finally collapsed and attained shahadat.



View attachment 741543
View attachment 741544
View attachment 741545
View attachment 741546

[/QUOTE]
The Indian ground forces also had CAS.

Some of their aerial photographs and a video:

















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1010379452268843008

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## CriticalThought

PanzerKiel said:


> Instructor is teaching regarding HALO insertion... He is an SSG major.
> 
> An Indian brigade level action in Kargil war against Tiger Hill.... in which 8 Sikh, 18 Grenadiers and 2 Naga were pitted against a company / company (+) strength of NLI troops along with SSG reinforcements.
> 
> Pre attack bombardment with almost 200 artillery guns and MBRL.
> 
> To quote an Indian account
> 
> After initial setback and repulsed attacks, 8 Sikh were tasked to capture Helmet and India Gate features in order to cut the supply lines of troops holding out at the top.
> 
> 8 Sikh managed to capture these features and then prepared hasty defences in order to face the inevitable counter attack.
> 
> This counter attack, made by a platoon strength of NLI troops, was launched within 40 minutes (as per our theoretical teachings as well) of 8 Sikh's completion of its operation.
> 
> This counter attack managed to make some headway since it was a downhill counterattack. It also achieved tactical surprise since it was preceded by sudden fire of several RPGs which managed to destroy several hastily made sanghars of 8 Sikh. However, due to less strength, 8 Sikh managed to beat back this attack.
> 
> 8 Sikhs then witness the arrival of two Mi-17s, which came from Pakistan's side and landed two heli-loads of SSG troops under Capt Ammar Hussain (SJ, Ammar Shaheed chowk, Chaklala).
> 
> The second counter attack, in the words of CO 8 Sikh, was much fierce since it was a mixed attack, downhill, comprising of SSG and NLI troops led by Capt Sher and Capt Ammar, SSG themselves. This attack managed to penetrate the 8 Sikhs' hasty defences. However, since the counter-attacking were exposed running downhill, they kept on suffering casualties.
> 
> Capt Sher was the last one seen RUNNING downhill towards 8 Sikh with a MG1A3 in his hand, firing from his hip while running. However, his ammo was exhausted and at this moment he surrounded by around 50 soldiers of 8 Sikh. CO 8 Sikh was also there. He asked to Capt Sher (unidentified at that moment since he was wearing a dark blue track suit) to lay down his weapon and surrender. Capt Sher, instead, grabbed the MG, moved forwards and tried to hit the CO 8 Sikh with it.
> 
> At that time, several Indian soldiers fired and hit Capt Sher. He collapsed on his knees. Soldiers noted that he kept on sitting on his knees but was not falling down despite being hit. Couple of Indian soldiers then came forward and kicked him in order to make him fall down. CO 8 Sikh had to intervene to stop his soldiers from doing that. Capt Sher then finally collapsed and attained shahadat.



View attachment 741543
View attachment 741544
View attachment 741545
View attachment 741546

[/QUOTE]

Sorry to say, but this is simply bad tactics, charging downwards on exposed hill. Two heli loads word of SSG troops should try to take the advantage away from the enemy, possibly by calling in airstrikes or artillery fire. Or, they should be armed with enough fire power to light up the enemy like a bonfire. Salute to the braves who laid down their lives and achieved Shahadah, but this is a shame on those who trained them and planned this mission. It is the duty of us, the ones left behind, to not let their sacrifice go in vain. We need to hold the planners accountable.


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## Vapour

BACK TO THE FUTURE: GETTING SPECIAL FORCES READY FOR GREAT-POWER COMPETITION


Have the U.S. Army Special Forces (commonly known as Green Berets) lost the language skills and deep cultural understanding that made them “special,” and enabled them to work closely with indigenous forces? Not only have advanced language capabilities and cultural knowledge atrophied, but these...



defence.pk


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## ghazi52

Old picture, so no need to panic. 

Proud Pakistan - Long live the anonymous hero

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## User

> Sorry to say, but this is simply bad tactics, charging downwards on exposed hill. Two heli loads word of SSG troops should try to take the advantage away from the enemy, possibly by calling in airstrikes or artillery fire. Or, they should be armed with enough fire power to light up the enemy like a bonfire. Salute to the braves who laid down their lives and achieved Shahadah, but this is a shame on those who trained them and planned this mission. It is the duty of us, the ones left behind, to not let their sacrifice go in vain. We need to hold the planners accountable.



Sir, for many years, I too was critical of the strategy used in this op. But now, when I think, it was meant to be an adventure by Kashmiri Mujahideen and not Pakistan Army. Thus, at max, machine guns and probably an RPG were to be part of the op. Further, it was Indian territory; calling in airstrikes or artillery would have firstly made it clear that it is Pakistan Army engaging them instead of Mujahideen, and secondly, it would have escalated to a limited or full scale war, which our strategists were probably avoiding from the onset.

So the premise that Kashmiris would be staging an offensive, automatically placed limitations on the resources that could have been deployed.

This is just my own analysis and I could be wrong.

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## CriticalThought

User said:


> Sir, for many years, I too was critical of the strategy used in this op. But now, when I think, it was meant to be an adventure by Kashmiri Mujahideen and not Pakistan Army. Thus, at max, machine guns and probably an RPG were to be part of the op. Further, it was Indian territory; calling in airstrikes or artillery would have firstly made it clear that it is Pakistan Army engaging them instead of Mujahideen, and secondly, it would have escalated to a limited or full scale war, which our strategists were probably avoiding from the onset.
> 
> So the premise that Kashmiris would be staging an offensive, automatically placed limitations on the resources that could have been deployed.
> 
> This is just my own analysis and I could be wrong.



Just think over what you have written with a cool mind. On the one hand it was to be a Kashmiri Mujahadeen adventure, on the other hand two heli loads of Pakistani commandos were dropped without much supporting equipment and weaponry. What you are saying is that it is OK to sacrifice SSG operators like sacrificial lambs. And this is insanity. Every single SSG operator represents a huge investment by Pakistan in not just money, but time. His experience is unique and you can't throw it away on absolutely lost causes. Whoever ordered this mission is a cold blooded murderer. He should be court marshalled and tried for conniving with the enemy. The Indians would like nothing better than be able to say that common, pathetic soldiers of regular regiments shot and martyred an SSG operator. Think about this.


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## Kompromat

Personal gear of SSG needs serious update.

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## ghazi52

SSW

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum





TikTok







www.tiktok.com


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## ghazi52

Commander of the SS Group, Brigadier Sherullah Baig pins the para-wings on Nur Khan after completing a static-line jump.







.

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## PanzerKiel



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## Vapour

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 743267
> View attachment 743268
> View attachment 743269
> View attachment 743270
> View attachment 743271
> View attachment 743272
> View attachment 743273
> View attachment 743274
> View attachment 743275
> View attachment 743276
> View attachment 743277



If you have some pics from LOC & WB, please post them.

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## ghazi52

Remembering, 
Captain Junaid Khan Tamgha-e-Basalat 
47 Baloch / 6 Commando "Al-Samsaam" 11 May 2009 Khwazakhela, Swat Valley 







Captain Najam Riaz Raja Tamgha-e-Basalat 
1 Baloch / 6 Commando "Al-Samsaam" 11 May 2009 Khwazakhela, Swat Valley 







never forgive, never forget. من جانبازم

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum 
I know this thread is irrelevant for such question(which I know is weird) but pls answer
I have heard that the Ak-47 Type 56 used by Pakistan Army is an SMG but Wikipedia says that it is an assault rifle. So can someone kindly just clarify this to me. Also can you kindly share the Specifications of Type 56?


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## iLION12345_1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> I know this thread is irrelevant for such question(which I know is weird) but pls answer
> I have heard that the Ak-47 Type 56 used by Pakistan Army is an SMG but Wikipedia says that it is an assault rifle. So can someone kindly just clarify this to me. Also can you kindly share the Specifications of Type 56?


Not the correct thread for this, but I’ll answer.
Type 56 is an assault rifle, but in Pakistani service, G3 was the standard firearm, when the war on terror started, MP5s, which are SMGs, were issued to soldiers since it was mostly CQB engagements (G3 is too big for these), but these proved to be unsatisfactory, not enough stopping power and penetration, so they were quickly replaced with Any AKs the army the could find. Since they were replacing SMGs, they were given the SMG designation in PA, despite being ARs. This has stayed as the military replaces older AKs with modernized Type 56-IIs and AK-103s. 
SMGs are not really that relevant in modern warfare as proper ARs are getting pretty compact, in the past the size difference was big and this wasn’t possible. So the AK series is the PAs standard AR and the G3 and it’s replacement will be the standard Battle rifle. Even if the PA calls it an SMG (since it’s used in the role SMGs were used in the past. CQB and mechanized troops.)

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## ghazi52

Personal belongings of Major General Aboobaker Osman Mitha, the first commander of the SS Group - presented by Begum Indu Mitha to the Group's Cherat Museum.
.
Maj Gen Aboobaker Osman Mitha was commissioned from Indian Military Academy(IMA) in 1942 in the Grenadiers Regt. He subsequently volunteered for Indian Para Brigade & served in Burma in WWII. Opted for Pakistan in 1947. Raised Pak SSG on the lines of US Army SF "Green Berets" 

Begum Indu Mitha, nee Indu Chatterjee, daughter of Dr Gyanesh Chandra Chatterjee, Professor of philosophy and president of Government College Lahore. Married Captain Aboobaker Osman Mitha, a Mumbai Memon in 1951

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## SSGOPERATOR

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 745905
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal belongings of Major General Aboobaker Osman Mitha, the first commander of the SS Group - presented by Begum Indu Mitha to the Group's Cherat Museum.
> .
> Maj Gen Aboobaker Osman Mitha was commissioned from Indian Military Academy(IMA) in 1942 in the Grenadiers Regt. He subsequently volunteered for Indian Para Brigade & served in Burma in WWII. Opted for Pakistan in 1947. Raised Pak SSG on the lines of US Army SF "Green Berets"
> 
> Begum Indu Mitha, nee Indu Chatterjee, daughter of Dr Gyanesh Chandra Chatterjee, Professor of philosophy and president of Government College Lahore. Married Captain Aboobaker Osman Mitha, a Mumbai Memon in 1951


He had a Khukri.


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## ghazi52

Come May, and eight years back, remember Captain Salman Sarwar, a company commander in the Frontier Corps Special Operations Group, who was killed in action during operations in the general area of Bara and Akakhel, . 
He was awarded posthumous Sitara-e-Basalat.
.

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## Goritoes

They need better gear.

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## ghazi52

There's a lot of hard work behind it. We'll remember you forever. Salute you sir. ❤ ❤ ❤

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## Vapnope

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 746770
> 
> 
> 
> Come May, and eight years back, remember Captain Salman Sarwar, a company commander in the Frontier Corps Special Operations Group, who was killed in action during operations in the general area of Bara and Akakhel, .
> He was awarded posthumous Sitara-e-Basalat.
> .
> 
> View attachment 746772


He was killed by a cleaner at least this was the story back then and the murderer was arrested as well. 
@PanzerKiel sir can you confirm?

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## khanasifm

Vapnope said:


> He was killed by a cleaner at least this was the story back then and the murderer was arrested as well.
> @PanzerKiel sir can you confirm?



His story was dramatized in a video by paa media and available on YouTube or other sites nothing fancy simply encounter where he attained shahadat

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## Ahmet Pasha

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 745905
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal belongings of Major General Aboobaker Osman Mitha, the first commander of the SS Group - presented by Begum Indu Mitha to the Group's Cherat Museum.
> .
> Maj Gen Aboobaker Osman Mitha was commissioned from Indian Military Academy(IMA) in 1942 in the Grenadiers Regt. He subsequently volunteered for Indian Para Brigade & served in Burma in WWII. Opted for Pakistan in 1947. Raised Pak SSG on the lines of US Army SF "Green Berets"
> 
> Begum Indu Mitha, nee Indu Chatterjee, daughter of Dr Gyanesh Chandra Chatterjee, Professor of philosophy and president of Government College Lahore. Married Captain Aboobaker Osman Mitha, a Mumbai Memon in 1951


Probably the most overlooked man in history of SSG. Gave up being a nawabzada to be a soldier.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Goritoes said:


> They need better gear.


Na you need new pics not ancient stuff these guys are posting.

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## Goritoes

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Na you need new pics not ancient stuff these guys are posting.



Bhai we rely on you and other members for pics, ab aap hi new pics ka bolen gay tu kese chale ga

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## ghazi52

Pakistan SSG soldier with Armenian , Russian , Chinese & Myanmar soldiers at Kavkaz 2020 exercise in Russia ..

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## Windjammer



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Windjammer said:


> View attachment 748657


Very old pic.. were these helmets and webbing phased out.

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## ghazi52

32nd Shahadat Anniversary of Brigadier Tariq Mehmood shaheed. (29th May1989)

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## Valiant

ghazi52 said:


> 32nd Shahadat Anniversary of Brigadier Tariq Mehmood shaheed. (29th May1989)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 748987



Sher e Pakistan

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## ghazi52

Counter-Insurgency Operations East Pakistan, August 1971..







Underwater demolition divers of the Navy's nascent SEAL Group.

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## ghazi52



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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum




The whole might be unrelated to this thread but the last part of the video has a huge meaning...


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## ghazi52

"AIRBORNE, AIRBORNE!"
"ALI, ALI!"
An SS Group contingent marching on in Quetta, circa 1976.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## Metal 0-1

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 751896


Interesting picture (Bottom Left)

It looks like they are being trained by or with USAF PJ or SF Medic for SAR part.

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## ghazi52

These are SSW


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## ghazi52



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## SSGOPERATOR

Metal 0-1 said:


> Interesting picture (Bottom Left)
> 
> It looks like they are being trained by or with USAF PJ or SF Medic for SAR part.


Assaalam o Alaikum
According to your opinion, who is more battle-hardened and lethal, SSG, SSW, or SSGN?


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## Sifar zero

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assaalam o Alaikum
> According to your opinion, who is more battle-hardened and lethal, SSG, SSW, or SSGN?


Punjab pulas.

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## Metal 0-1

ghazi52 said:


> These are SSW


Bottom left picture. The guy kneeling down wearing full on Multicam.


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## ghazi52

*SSG Zarrar unit and Flight 554 Hijacking*


June 04, 2021






*The Situation*

3 terrorists, 33 hostages, a hijacked plane and a special force rescue mission that lasted less than 2 mins.


*Introduction*

On 25 May 1998, a Pakistan International Airlines Fokker F27 was hijacked shortly after it took off from Gwadar International Airport, by three armed men. The aircraft with carried 33 passengers and 5 crew members aboard was held hostage by the armed men who demanded the place fly into India, after long hours of negotiations Pakistani special force SSG stormed the aircraft.


*The Hijacking*

The incident began while the aircraft was flying, carrying 33 passengers with 5 crew members onboard bound towards Karachi. Shortly after it left Gwadar airport (Inside Pakistan) Flight PK-554, was hijacked by 3 men armed with small arms and explosives at 5:35pm on Sunday. The hijackers forced the pilot to enter India and demanded they reach new Delhi, but the pilot refused to head towards Delhi on the pretext of fuel shortage. Meanwhile the Pakistan Air Force had traced the pilot’s communication and dispatched F-16s which intercepted the aircraft and forced to land in Hyderabad airport.

*Deceiving the Hijackers*

Before landing in Hyderabad airport (Pakistan) the Hijackers were becoming more and more violent, so the pilots tried to calm them down trying to give the impression that they were already in India. According to the sources, the pilot was in his senses and his message addressed Hyderabad Airport as Bhuj airport (Bhuki is in India). His decision led the hijackers to believe that they were in Bhuj, India, as he had heard the hijackers talking about maps of Bhuj. The airport general manager had gotten the gist of situation and responded by saying that he was at Bhuj and waiting for the flight. This communication assured the hijackers that the plane had crossed into India. Meanwhile entire airport was cordoned off by Pakistan Rangers and Police personnel.


*Negotiations*

The plane landed at Hyderabad late at night just after the airport manager switched off the lights and markings of Hyderabad. Later in the night, the hijackers released a flight engineer to talk with the authorities to refuel the plane for onward journey to New Delhi, India, in addition also demanded food and water ( They threatened to kill the hostages and them blow up the plane with the explosives jackets ). The negotiations lasted a few hours after which an agreement was made on delivery of food and water. Two senior officers of Pakistan police volunteered to deliver it and according to sources wearing Indian uniform safely reached the plane unarmed.

While delivering the goods the two police officers spoke in Hindi ( India’s national language) to each other which further falsely convinced the hijackers that the officers are Indian nationals, as the hijackers had thought that they were in an Indian airport. The police officers, in order to buy time and earn good will, told the hijackers that the Pakistani embassy people had been summoned to talk to them but, at the same time insisted that they should not hurt the passengers and let the women and children go. While the officers stayed in the plane to distract the hijackers, Special forces SSG Commandos closed in on the plane.


*The Assault*

The two police officers on board negotiating (In Hindi language) with the hijackers had managed to convince them to let the women and children off guaranteeing the hijackers safety and fuel. Just as the women and children got off the plane the SSG operative got into positions ready to start infiltration mission code-named “Commando Operation”.

The SSG operatives stormed the plane, penetrating the plane from the front and the back doors of the aircraft. As the SSG stormed the two officers inside shouted at hijackers to distract them. Shocked by this one of the hijackers tried to shoot them but missed. Another hijacker attempted to shoot at the SOF but was quickly detained before he could shoot. 

The last remaining hijacker attempted to blow himself up by hitting the explosives but was also detained by another commando that had infiltrated from the front. The whole operation lasted less than two minutes and all three hijackers were arrested by the SSG later handed over to Police. Just as the last hijacker was detained on the ground during the operation one of the police officers from before walked up to him smiling and said “Welcome to Pakistan”.



*Result*


*All 3 terrorists detained alive.

* No Hostage casualties.

* Counter terrorists win











PK Flight 554 Hijacking


The forgotten story of Flight 455 Hijacking




pakistanstrategicinstitute.blogspot.com

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## ghazi52

*SSG and Afghan Embassy Hostage Crisis*

June 06, 2021







*The Situation*

Three armed gunmen, Sixteen hostages, a foreign embassy, and a dramatic special force rescue operation that lasted twenty seconds.


*Introduction*

On February 23, 1994, three Afghan men hijacked a bus full of teachers and students, quickly driving it to the Afghan embassy in Pakistan. Taking them hostage demanding money, food, and safe ride back to Afghanistan. Negotiations failed and it was clear that the special forces will have to participate in a rescue operation.


*The Hijacking*

Three masked gunmen hijacked a school bus in the Peshawar city- in a bid to demand a big sum of money and food from the Pakistani government. The heavily armed gunmen moved with the hostages towards the Afghan embassy in Islamabad using the hijacked school bus. After reaching the destination they took refuge within the Afghan embassy along with the hostages including 15 students and one male teacher. They had previously released 55 boys and six female teachers after detaining them for several hours during negotiations.


*The Demands*

The incident took place in response to Pakistan’s decision to close its border during the same month due to renewed fighting in Afghanistan between factions in Kabul which would have prompted another big influx of Afghan refugees into Pakistan(Pakistan already had over 3.5 million Afghan refugees at that time). They demanded a huge sum of money be handed over to them and a safe passage via a helicopter to Afghanistan. They additionally demanded food aid to be sent to Afghanistan.


*The Negotiations*

The armed gunmen initially demanded $500,000, but later raised the ransom demand to $5 million while threatening to shoot a hostage every half an hour. They also demanded “truckloads of food” to be sent to Kabul, where the heavy fighting has resulted in food shortages.

The Pakistani interior minister Nasirullah Babar initially offered to meet their demands for 2000 truckloads of food/Medicine aid to war-shattered Kabul and a safe passage back to Afghanistan but refused the ransom demand after the gunmen had raised it to 5 million and threatened to execute the hostages. Nasirullah Babar explained that they want the money for themselves and we will not give it for their personal gain. During the ongoing negotiations, Pakistani police officers disguised as waiters entered the premises to deliver the daily food. Quietly observing the situation and analyzing their weaknesses and locating possible entry points for the rescue operation.


*The Rescue Operation*

As negotiations were not arriving at a decisive conclusion all options were placed on the table, including an armed forced entry to rescue the hostages and capture/kill the gunmen. Extensive meetings were held where planning was carried out taking all variables into consideration such as the weapons used by targets, the rooms where hostages are being held, and possible entry points for quick action for the safety of the hostages.


*According to Interior Secretary*

“They were heavily armed with firearms and grenades so had to be incapacitated immediately to prevent them using these weapons against hostages ”

On Monday night, 30 Pakistani commandos of the SSG special forces started casually walking around the embassy in civilian clothing evaluating the situation and finally getting into designated positions. Soon the assault began as they stormed the Afghan Embassy rescuing all 16 hostages unharmed and eliminated all three terrorists in an operation that lasted for just 20 seconds.

Commandos of the Special Services Group (SSG) began the assault with a stun grenade immediately after which storming the embassy points. The stun grenade had both blinded two of the armed gunmen and diverted away the attention of third from the hostages. As the SSG commandoes rushed in breaking windows and from other entry points they got into contact with the two stunned gunmen immediately taking them out and giving a room clear sign ready to confront the third. By that time, the third was alert and ready to resist started to fire a burst of rounds by was also taken out by a 9mm headshot. Finally, all hostages were rescued; all terrorists were eliminated. Overall operation was swiftly executed within just 20 seconds, ending a 36 hours’ crisis.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum
Seriously asking, how good is SSGN compared to SSG(Army)? In my opinion, they are better equipped and better disciplined compared to SSG, and I think they also show off less.
SSW in my opinion is only good for Pararescue and Air Operations.
The other Pak SFs aren't even part of the league.
Also how active is the SSGN?





@Metal 0-1 @Horus @Ghost 125 @PanzerKiel @Reichmarshal @Foxtrot Alpha @akramishaqkhan @Irfan Baloch

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## Reichmarshal

SSG unlike the other two have been through like they say " aag ka darya main say guzar kay jana hey". They have been at it continously since past 20 years.
The other two are yet to be seriously tested in any of the scenarios that they train for.
Having said that I know that ssw operatives accompanied ssg as ground observers to direct bombing runs by PAF ac.
Where we are missing out on is a spec ops command, overlooking and commanding all spec ops units from army, navy, AF to para military to even include police.
So they could all be properly utilized for the roles they train for.
Had such a command been in place I am sure all our spec ops outfits would have had equal combat experience as ssg.


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## ghazi52

PAF Special Service Wing (SSW) members pose for a group photo after the ‘First Free Fall Course’ which is also carried out at PAF Para-School Risalpur - circa 2003.

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## Metal 0-1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> Seriously asking, how good is SSGN compared to SSG(Army)? In my opinion, they are better equipped and better disciplined compared to SSG, and I think they also show off less.
> SSW in my opinion is only good for Pararescue and Air Operations.
> The other Pak SFs aren't even part of the league.
> Also how active is the SSGN?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Metal 0-1 @Horus @Ghost 125 @PanzerKiel @Reichmarshal @Foxtrot Alpha @akramishaqkhan @Irfan Baloch


If I have to take a village SSG will be my choice.

If it's just a raid recce or low intensity firefight SSG-N

Not saying SSG can't do raids or recce.

But SSG-N fighting capacity is limited.

SSG members come from Infantry units if shit hits fan they can quickly change to infantry because it's in their traits.

SSG-N guys on other hand are sailors they fire their rifles in basic and after that they get to hold onto rifles just for ceremonial purposes.

Yes SSW have same fighting capacity like SSG-N but they are helpful in supporting roles. Because they basically control Air Strikes, make use of makeshift runways, air strips because they serve as air traffic controllers and they are para rescuemen.


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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

On this day 34 years back, the Quaid Observation Post fell to the 8ᵗʰ JAKLi.
Naib Subedar Atta Muhammad, the post commander from the 2ⁿᵈ Commando, fell in action with a carbine in one hand - the other had been blown off by airburst artillery.
He was awarded the Sitara-e-Jurat.

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## ghazi52

Lance Naik Jehanzeb Khattak had fell to LMG fire moments before Atta's last stand. 









The OP, named after the SS Group company that first established it, fell after giving the enemy a bloody nose in several repulsed attempts. only three of the eight defenders survived.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## PanzerKiel



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## ghazi52

*Capt. Salman Farooq Lodhi Shaheed*

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## ghazi52



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## PanzerKiel



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## ghazi52

Captain Salman Farooq Lodhi Shaheed with Captain Bilal Shaheed.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## Kompromat

Avoid posting older images that have already been posted?


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## ghazi52

Major General Adil Rehmani , Tamgha-e-Basalat (M), has been appointed as the new, General Officer Commanding (GOC) of The Special Service Group (SSG), #Tarbela

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## Thorough Pro

participating in an exercise, not being trained



Metal 0-1 said:


> Interesting picture (Bottom Left)
> 
> It looks like *they are being trained* by or with USAF PJ or SF Medic for SAR part.

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## Khan_patriot

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> Seriously asking, how good is SSGN compared to SSG(Army)? In my opinion, they are better equipped and better disciplined compared to SSG, and I think they also show off less.
> SSW in my opinion is only good for Pararescue and Air Operations.
> The other Pak SFs aren't even part of the league.
> Also how active is the SSGN?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Metal 0-1 @Horus @Ghost 125 @PanzerKiel @Reichmarshal @Foxtrot Alpha @akramishaqkhan @Irfan Baloch


Yes I am sure you are right, seeing that you have served in all of the mentioned units to draw such comparisons.

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## PanzerKiel

Laraib there as well








Gen Zia visit to Cherat.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

*gone but never forgotten. never. *

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## ghazi52

Captain Salman Farooq Lodhi of the Karrar Company (Rapid Strike Force), is killed in action during the final battle for the Lal Masjid Complex. awarded the Sitara-e-Basalat;
He got a Tamgha-e-Basalat for operations in Waziristan, circa 2004.









Cuirassier

@leftofthepincer

seen in this photograph of Zarrar's "O" Group, fourth from left, after the unit was mobilized for Operation Silence. the late Lieutenant Colonel Haroon "Terra" Islam is also seen, second from left. this is perhaps their last known photograph.
https://twitter.com/leftofthepincer/status/1413608417608994818/photo/1

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum

        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## SSGOPERATOR

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> 
> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


Assalam o Alaikum
Can anyone kindly tell me which mask were they wearing? I mean the brand and some links.
And are they available in Pakistan?

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## Metal 0-1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> Can anyone kindly tell me which mask were they wearing? I mean the brand and some links.
> And are they available in Pakistan?


Arctyrex


But you can find find cheap stuff on online

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## Great Janjua

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> 
> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


Amazing.These kind of exercises will help our special forces by a tremendous amount, Exposure to NATO standard training will be beneficial,It will help us bring about new ideas into our doctrine,Hope we incorporate lessons learned from these types exercises and not just bury our heads into sand.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Great Janjua said:


> Amazing.These kind of exercises will help our special forces by a tremendous amount, Exposure to NATO standard training will be beneficial,It will help us bring about new ideas into our doctrine,Hope we incorporate lessons learned from these types exercises and not just bury our heads into sand.


Assalam o Alaikum
Won't say much openly
but actually AlhamdUllilah this has been happening for a long time now, it just doesn't get online( minimum videos and pics of it).
And even about the newer tactics that people say SSG isn't using
I asked a retd SSG officer about it and he said the SSG is already into it and has MashAllah evolved more than you can imagine.
Not everything is shown in SSG videos( that C-Clamp, etc.)
MashAllah SSG is already on the line of modern SOF and AlhamdUllilah even better than the ones who have only theoretical traininig.


Metal 0-1 said:


> Arctyrex
> 
> 
> But you can find find cheap stuff on online


JazakAllah
But cheap stuff means low quality?

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## Metal 0-1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> But cheap stuff means low quality?


Kinda,
If you can find some good stuff at reasonable price go for it.
If you have off topic questions or want to have discussion leave message at my profile

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## ghazi52

the 1970s... 







Donned in the British inspired 'Brushstroke' camouflage;
First introduced with the SS Group. "you're just out there playing on adrenaline."

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## SSGOPERATOR

Metal 0-1 said:


> Kinda,
> If you can find some good stuff at reasonable price go for it.
> If you have off topic questions or want to have discussion leave message at my profile


Assalam o Alaikum
Sorry Sir for off topic discussions
but one last thing Sir, I can't view your profile because you limit who may view it.


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## Metal 0-1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> Sorry Sir for off topic discussions
> but one last thing Sir, I can't view your profile because you limit who may view it.


Only details are limited


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## ghazi52

Don’t underestimate the Power of your Prayers

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## PanzerKiel

ghazi52 said:


> the 1970s...
> View attachment 762632
> 
> 
> 
> Donned in the British inspired 'Brushstroke' camouflage;
> First introduced with the SS Group. "you're just out there playing on adrenaline."



This officer is not from SSG. 

Not just the SSG , this specific camo scheme was for the whole army in mid to late 70s.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Metal 0-1 said:


> Only details are limited


Assalam o Alaikum
IDK what's happening but when I click on it and open it it just doesn't open. Can't even leave a message on your profile.


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## ghazi52

If You Want To Fly With Hawks
Don't Swim With The Ducks

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## ghazi52

Lion's Roar

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## ghazi52

The whole Nation tribute to its martyrs who sacrificed their lives for the security, safety and peace of their MotherLand. 
Pak Army Zindabad.

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## ghazi52

Cuirassier

@leftofthepincer







remembering Captain Safdar Khan, an SS Group officer of the 1ˢᵗ AK, who made the ultimate sacrifice at Chulung La, in the Siachen sector, 29 years back. the 'Steel Man' was awarded the Sitara-e-Jurat for gallantry. native of Kalu Khan, Swabi. 







in July-August 1992, the 323 Brigade, instead of maintaining existing posts, decided to establish a new post in the no-man's land at Chulung, code-named "Panther", at a height of 5,300 metres, though tactically unfeasible as it was in full view of the Indian outposts.

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## PanzerKiel



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## ghazi52

Style

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum
Ladies and Gentlemen, this day also reminds us of the ultimate sacrifice of Captian Tariq Jamal Shaheed
It was the night of 14 August 2012, when he spearheaded the mission of eliminating the terrorists from Point 2514 a peak in Orakzai Agency. When the Sun of Independence Day dawned, he had ensured victory before suffering a severe head injury, which led to his shahadat 15 days later.
May ALLAH ALMIGHTY bless his soul. AMEEN





        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152452812537663

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## ghazi52

Cuirassier

@leftofthepincer
·
1h

Brigadier Afzal Janjua (on the scopes) and Brigadier Yasub Ali Dogar with 'Mujahideen' at Gardez, Paktia Province. both were SS Group officers on deputation with the ISI, and '71 veterans. Janjua had won a Sitara-e-Jurat for actions at Bhairab Bridge, in erstwhile East Pakistan.

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## ghazi52



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## SSGOPERATOR

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 772042


Assalam o Alaikum
Are these the same plate carriers used by SSG in general or are these better ones?
@Metal 0-1


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## Metal 0-1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> Are these the same plate carriers used by SSG in general or are these better ones?
> @Metal 0-1


Don't wear can't say.

But there are better ones


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## SSGOPERATOR

Metal 0-1 said:


> Don't wear can't say.
> 
> But there are better ones


so they aren't used by SSG in general?


Metal 0-1 said:


> Don't wear can't say.
> 
> But there are better ones


there are better ones or THESE ARE BETTER ONES?


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## ghazi52

SSW (Special Services Wing) operatives dismounting a International MaxxPro MRAP

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## Metal 0-1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> there are


there are


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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=899649084234659

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## Horizon303

ghazi52 said:


> If You Want To Fly With Hawks
> Don't Swim With The Ducks
> 
> 
> View attachment 763129


This image is of DSP Kashif


----------



## ghazi52

OTD the infamous Operation Destiny reaches it's climactic end at the Bhambore Hills.

38 militiamen along with the renegade Nawab Akbar Bugti were killed at a heavy cost of 21 troops, including 6 officers.







Major Khalid Aziz of the SS Group, amongst the fallen.

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## SSGOPERATOR

ghazi52 said:


> OTD the infamous Operation Destiny reaches it's climactic end at the Bhambore Hills.
> 
> 38 militiamen along with the renegade Nawab Akbar Bugti were killed at a heavy cost of 21 troops, including 6 officers.
> 
> View attachment 773331
> 
> 
> 
> Major Khalid Aziz of the SS Group, amongst the fallen.


Assalam o Alaikum

Were all 21 from SSG?


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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52




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## Falcon26

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 773554



What does the IS OPS mean?


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## iLION12345_1

Falcon26 said:


> What does the IS OPS mean?


Internal security operations.

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## Reichsmarschall

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 773554


Is it not concerning that there's not even a single enlisted man on this so called roll of honor.


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## iLION12345_1

Reichsmarschall said:


> Is it not concerning that there's not even a single enlisted man on this so called roll of honor.


On roll of honor the NCOs and COs are usually separated. In many cases the one for the NCOs would be in the NCOs mess/barracks/offices the one for the COs in their mess/offices. They often also belong to certain regiments/companies so only the members of that outfit are present on it. Each regiment has its own in its HQ. 
Also on actual monuments or walls (Yaad-Gar-e shuhada) there is no distinction made between COs and NCOs.

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## ghazi52

Closing Ceremony of Pakistan Kazakhstan Joint Military Exercise “Dostarym III” held at National Counter Terrorism Center (NCTC),

Exercise aimed at strengthening co-op between both countries in face of emerging counter terrorism & counter-insurgency .

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## ghazi52



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## PakCan

iLION12345_1 said:


> On roll of honor the NCOs and COs are usually separated. In many cases the one for the NCOs would be in the NCOs mess/barracks/offices the one for the COs in their mess/offices. They often also belong to certain regiments/companies so only the members of that outfit are present on it. Each regiment has its own in its HQ.
> Also on actual monuments or walls (Yaad-Gar-e shuhada) there is no distinction made between COs and NCOs.


Can you please explain the difference between CO's and NCOs


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## Amaa'n

PakCan said:


> Can you please explain the difference between CO's and NCOs


Commissioned Officer vs Non Commissioned Officer
Lt above cadre vs Sepoy above cadre

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## Reichmarshal

PakCan said:


> Can you please explain the difference between CO's and NCOs


CO is short for commanding officer
NCO is short for non commissioned officer

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## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432763986299269126

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## ghazi52

Chief Petty Officer Akhtar

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## iLION12345_1

SSG(N)
















Army SSG.

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## Sifar zero

iLION12345_1 said:


> SSG(N)
> View attachment 775665
> View attachment 775666
> View attachment 775667
> View attachment 775668
> View attachment 775669
> 
> Army SSG.
> 
> View attachment 775670
> View attachment 775671


The first 5 pics are so sexy.
Where did you get them?


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## iLION12345_1

Sifar zero said:


> The first 5 pics are so sexy.
> Where did you get them?






From this, there’s more in it as well.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum
Are these suppressors:


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## iLION12345_1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> Are these suppressors:


I do not see any suppressors on the guns at that mark.


----------



## ghazi52

" History Repeats Itself "

Pakistani Brigadier who was a serving officer in Special Service Group of Pakistan Army was on Intelligence mission on during Soviet invasion in Afghanistan. The Qahwah in his hand is not just a cup but it indicates the symbol the calmness on his face. He poses for a photo while Soviets in the back are being bombed in Gardez, Afghanistan. The clear message was conveyed to the the world that "Pakistan is the BOSS in this region".The picture taken in operation Cyclone went viral on the internet. But that is not just all, history repeated itself after 30 years.


Here is a revision session, Whoever didn’t get the message the first time, the Americans went back to where they came from but in bits & pieces after a not so welcomed 20 years stay in Afghanistan & another similar picture is taken yesterday with Pakistan again having come out on top. DG ISI Faiz Ahmed was seen enjoying tea in Kabul after the complete pullout of the US army ...

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## PanzerKiel

ghazi52 said:


> " History Repeats Itself "
> 
> Pakistani Brigadier who was a serving officer in Special Service Group of Pakistan Army was on Intelligence mission on during Soviet invasion in Afghanistan. The Qahwah in his hand is not just a cup but it indicates the symbol the calmness on his face. He poses for a photo while Soviets in the back are being bombed in Gardez, Afghanistan. The clear message was conveyed to the the world that "Pakistan is the BOSS in this region".The picture taken in operation Cyclone went viral on the internet. But that is not just all, history repeated itself after 30 years.
> 
> 
> Here is a revision session, Whoever didn’t get the message the first time, the Americans went back to where they came from but in bits & pieces after a not so welcomed 20 years stay in Afghanistan & another similar picture is taken yesterday with Pakistan again having come out on top. DG ISI Faiz Ahmed was seen enjoying tea in Kabul after the complete pullout of the US army ...


Brig Yasub Dogar, SSG





Here , inside Afghanistan Brig Yasub with Gen Afzal, SJ, SSG who later became a Corps Commander.

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> Brig Yasub Dogar, SSG
> 
> View attachment 775690
> 
> Here , inside Afghanistan Brig Yasub with Gen Afzal, SJ, SSG who later became a Corps Commander.


On the topic, will any ssg ops from this part of time in afghanistan be declassified?

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum
Bol News New documentary about SSG:


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## bhola record

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> Bol News New documentary about SSG:


Most awkward presenter ever.

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## SSGOPERATOR

bhola record said:


> Most awkward presenter ever.


I didn't see anything like that.
Too me, it's very informative........

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## SSGOPERATOR

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> Bol News New documentary about SSG:


@PanzerKiel @Reichmarshal @Metal 0-1 ab aap ke remarks ka intezar hain.

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## Reichmarshal

Hati ka dant khanay kay or dikanay kay or

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## ghazi52

Captain Nisar Ahmed of the SS Group - missing believed killed in action on 13ᵗʰ August 1965.

Buried at Khag, across the CFL. awarded the Sitara-e-Jurat. 
Standing with his wife Dr SB Abbas, author of 'The Female Voice in Sufi Ritual: Devotional Practices of Pakistan and India'.







"We shall meet again beyond the threshold of life – beyond all conflicts of time, wars, prejudices, vanity, jealousy, hatred, sense of right and wrongs; everything that man thinks is important to his worldly existence or name." 56 years on. a must read. 








For fifty years, I believed that my husband had gone missing or was still a prisoner in an Indian jail, as we never got his body back. It was not until April, last year in 2015, that I accidently found a folder of my late husband’s letters – close to one hundred of which that he had written to me during our three-year relationship, mainly through correspondence.

The uppermost letter in the folder was the one that he wrote last, before he crossed the Line of Control into Indian Kashmir in July, 1965. The eight-page letter, painful as it is, also tells me what his mission was and where he was going. I had obliterated all details of the letter from memory, as I never reread it. 

This last letter and the others had travelled with me across the continents for fifty years wherever I studied or worked but I never reread them. I was angry with my husband for abandoning my daughter and I, especially as I did not want to have a child right away in our marriage and even more because he knew about the secret mission that he would be assigned to, in Kashmir. He never told me anything about it all.

I write this article as a prelude to a larger memoir project that I am working on, about Operation Gibraltar. During the course of this operation, my husband Captain Nisar Ahmed was killed in Indian-held Kashmir on August 13, 1965.




https://twitter.com/leftofthepincer/status/1426780208129056769/photo/1

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## bhola record

ghazi52 said:


> Captain Nisar Ahmed of the SS Group - missing believed killed in action on 13ᵗʰ August 1965.
> 
> Buried at Khag, across the CFL. awarded the Sitara-e-Jurat.
> Standing with his wife Dr SB Abbas, author of 'The Female Voice in Sufi Ritual: Devotional Practices of Pakistan and India'.
> 
> View attachment 776444
> 
> 
> 
> "We shall meet again beyond the threshold of life – beyond all conflicts of time, wars, prejudices, vanity, jealousy, hatred, sense of right and wrongs; everything that man thinks is important to his worldly existence or name." 56 years on. a must read.
> 
> 
> View attachment 776445
> 
> 
> 
> For fifty years, I believed that my husband had gone missing or was still a prisoner in an Indian jail, as we never got his body back. It was not until April, last year in 2015, that I accidently found a folder of my late husband’s letters – close to one hundred of which that he had written to me during our three-year relationship, mainly through correspondence.
> 
> The uppermost letter in the folder was the one that he wrote last, before he crossed the Line of Control into Indian Kashmir in July, 1965. The eight-page letter, painful as it is, also tells me what his mission was and where he was going. I had obliterated all details of the letter from memory, as I never reread it.
> 
> This last letter and the others had travelled with me across the continents for fifty years wherever I studied or worked but I never reread them. I was angry with my husband for abandoning my daughter and I, especially as I did not want to have a child right away in our marriage and even more because he knew about the secret mission that he would be assigned to, in Kashmir. He never told me anything about it all.
> 
> I write this article as a prelude to a larger memoir project that I am working on, about Operation Gibraltar. During the course of this operation, my husband Captain Nisar Ahmed was killed in Indian-held Kashmir on August 13, 1965.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426780208129056769


To those who died with their boots on.

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## Muhammad Hasnain Javid

An officer commissioned through Short Service Commission in Air-force in non- fighting branches such as accounts, logistics etc. can join SSW?


----------



## PanzerKiel

Swat, 2009

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## PanzerKiel



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## SSGOPERATOR

PanzerKiel said:


> Swat, 2009
> 
> View attachment 777074
> View attachment 777075
> View attachment 777076
> View attachment 777078


What's in the hands of the Commando in the last picture?


----------



## SSGOPERATOR

Muhammad Hasnain Javid said:


> An officer commissioned through Short Service Commission in Air-force in non- fighting branches such as accounts, logistics etc. can join SSW?


I asked my friend in SSW, he said that Yes he can If he is permitted from his OC.


----------



## blain2

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> Commissioned Officer vs Non Commissioned Officer
> Lt above cadre vs Sepoy above cadre


Techinically, NCOs are Lance Naik and above ranks. Basically those who have been assigned a supervisory duty over Jawans i.e Sepoy are considered NCOs.

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## SSGOPERATOR

blain2 said:


> Techinically, NCOs are Lance Naik and above ranks. Basically those who have been assigned a supervisory duty over Jawans i.e Sepoy are considered NCOs.


Does SSG still operate in 10 man teams?


----------



## blain2

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Does SSG still operate in 10 man teams?


The team composition is based on the needs of the mission. The basic unit in the SSG is comprised on the "buddy" system which is 1+1. However even battalion level employments have taken place on account of the mission needs.

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## SSGOPERATOR

blain2 said:


> The team composition is based on the needs of the mission. The basic unit in the SSG is comprised on the "buddy" system which is 1+1. However even battalion level employments have taken place on account of the mission needs.


but generally?


----------



## bhola record

blain2 said:


> The team composition is based on the needs of the mission. The basic unit in the SSG is comprised on the "buddy" system which is 1+1. However even battalion level employments have taken place on account of the mission needs.


I think buddy system is based on US green berets?

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## Reichsmarschall

What gun is SSG guy carrying?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437095544577576972

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## Ahmet Pasha

Reichsmarschall said:


> What gun is SSG guy carrying?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437095544577576972


Looks like AK103 with wood magazine


----------



## bhola record

Reichsmarschall said:


> What gun is SSG guy carrying?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437095544577576972






This shit worked

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## DESERT FIGHTER

3 Brothers SF exercise

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## Great Janjua

SSG kit is at a standstill. Even after fighting frontline battles. Kind of sad.
Plus the camo needs a change it's not like they will be operating in verdant zones only, We need to take into account all terrain types, Current camo needs to go asap.

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## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437090498603327492

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## SSGOPERATOR

Is this SSG's own gear in the exercise?


bhola record said:


> I think buddy system is based on US green berets?


Yup, SSG was set up by them. But today the buddy system is found in almost all SOF worldwide.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Is this SSG's own gear in the exercise?
> 
> Yup, SSG was set up by them. But today the buddy system is found in almost all SOF worldwide.


The weapons are azeri.


----------



## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437443455874183181

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## bhola record

ghazi52 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437443455874183181


Our boys looking rami.


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## ghazi52




----------



## FuturePAF

Great Janjua said:


> SSG kit is at a standstill. Even after fighting frontline battles. Kind of sad.
> Plus the camo needs a change it's not like they will be operating in verdant zones only, We need to take into account all terrain types, Current camo needs to go asap.



They should be buying up all the gear coming out of Afghanistan they can get their hands on. Comms, Rifles, thermal scopes for rifles, etc. hope they can get their hands on some Ah-6 helicopters for quick insertion (such as inserting a forward air controller with security detail, to call in air strikes, if a base comes under attack) and dedicated CAS.

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## iLION12345_1

Reichsmarschall said:


> What gun is SSG guy carrying?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437095544577576972





Ahmet Pasha said:


> Looks like AK103 with wood magazine




AK74M (Basically AK-103 chambered in 5.45 cartridge) PKMs and Turkish JNG-90 snipers. None of them are SSGs, they are using host country’s (Azerbaijan) equipment.


Great Janjua said:


> SSG kit is at a standstill. Even after fighting frontline battles. Kind of sad.
> Plus the camo needs a change it's not like they will be operating in verdant zones only, We need to take into account all terrain types, Current camo needs to go asap.


What do you think they’re missing exactly? It’s not really possible to judge what they have from a few publicly available pictures, they’ve been known to change camo as needed as well, though I don’t see what’s wrong with the current one either.

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## Great Janjua

iLION12345_1 said:


> AK74M (Basically AK-103 chambered in 5.45 cartridge) PKMs and Turkish JNG-90 snipers. None of them are SSGs, they are using host country’s (Azerbaijan) equipment.
> 
> What do you think they’re missing exactly? It’s note to judge what they have from a few publicly available pictures, they’ve been known to change camo as needed as well, though I don’t see what’s wrong with the current one either.


Missing "basic" equipment they don't even have proper ear protection first of all, Only recently did Tier 1 operators from SSG start inducting basic ear protection.

Apart from that tragedy, The body armour has improved, The headgear is also upgraded but night vision, the Knee and elbows pads are still remnants of piss poor decades, Gone but not forgotten, Neither improved upon on. *I can carry on but neither I have the energy or the desire to do so.

Let's not even touch on the camo bit no point in beating dead horses. All in all, It does not take a genius to figure out SSG is lacking in certain areas, Well related to their equipment of course. Otherwise, it's a "Fine" Establishment.


Edit* The things I touched on are child's play, grass-root basic shit, even a kid can comprehend. So let's not get bogged into further details about the crockery SSG is bestowed with. The point is, SSG being the premier force is still being neglected.

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## Khan_patriot

Great Janjua said:


> Missing "basic" equipment they don't even have proper ear protection first of all, Only recently did Tier 1 operators from SSG start inducting basic ear protection.
> 
> Apart from that tragedy, The body armour has improved, The headgear is also upgraded but *nightvision, Knee and elbows pads* are still remnants of piss poor decades, Gone but not forgotten, Neither improved upon on. *I can carry on but neither I have the energy or the desire to do so.
> 
> Let's not even touch on the camo bit no point in beating dead horses. All in all It does not take a genius to figure out SSG is lacking in certain areas, Well related to their equipment of course. Otherwise its a "Fine" Establishment.


First of all why in the world would they wear NVGs for a day time ex/ photo session. Ear pro is also an impediment to battle field awareness no matter how you skin the cat. Knee and elbow pads are just not a necessity, they are available throughout the units (I suppose) but are usually not used because 1. Dictates of the activity in progress 2. They are cumbersome and limit mobility. As much as fan boys would like them to wear every thing imaginable all the time, its is neither practical nor useful. People watch a few tactical videos/ hollywood war movies and think they are gear gurus. Far from the case mate.

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## ghazi52



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## Great Janjua

Khan_patriot said:


> First of all why in the world would they wear NVGs for a day time ex/ photo session. Ear pro is also an impediment to battle field awareness no matter how you skin the cat. Knee and elbow pads are just not a necessity, they are available throughout the units (I suppose) but are usually not used because 1. Dictates of the activity in progress 2. They are cumbersome and limit mobility. As much as fan boys would like them to wear every thing imaginable all the time, its is neither practical nor useful. People watch a few tactical videos/ hollywood war movies and think they are gear gurus. Far from the casemate.


Firstly, Am talking in general about their equipment and from what I have seen in general, Am not talking about the exercise mate. Have a re-read. 

I could give two hoots about what they wear when on exercises abroad or at home.


Also, I forgot and thanks for the knock on my hollow head MR General, That NVGs and certain equipment do not have omnipresent mandates. What would we do without you Mr General 

The point is a regular SSG soldier is not carrying quality tools for the job he does. Rather they are playing catch-up even though they have been on frontline battles. 

The rest of your post is swinging at air type non-sense

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## iLION12345_1

Khan_patriot said:


> First of all why in the world would they wear NVGs for a day time ex/ photo session. Ear pro is also an impediment to battle field awareness no matter how you skin the cat. Knee and elbow pads are just not a necessity, they are available throughout the units (I suppose) but are usually not used because 1. Dictates of the activity in progress 2. They are cumbersome and limit mobility. As much as fan boys would like them to wear every thing imaginable all the time, its is neither practical nor useful. People watch a few tactical videos/ hollywood war movies and think they are gear gurus. Far from the case mate.


Was practicality typing this answer but thought better of it, trying to explain for the Hundredth Time why the little gear seen in public photos and the heroics seen in Hollywood movies aren’t reality. Too many people just think every bit of kit tossed on to a soldier is improving his or her performance or that equipment is the only thing that matters. Annoys me to no end.

Even regulars have access to modern NVGs in the PA. I don’t know what makes people think that the SSG doesn’t, they just see Quad NVGs in a game and assume that is the only modern NVG and everything else is obsolete, despite having never _*once*_ seen an actual picture of SSG from a night Ops.

I‘m also surprised to hear that they think Ear protection isn’t present in the SSG or that it’s always used by everyone In other SFs, Though I agree with this one strongly, PA needs to pay more attention to ear protection, even if they think it’s not worth it, it’s good to see SSG at least has starting adopting it now.

Knee and elbow pads are very preference based, you can see even the best SFs not using them and using them as needed and wanted, I’m not sure what the poster thinks a “modern” knee pad is (Lol?) but they are already standard issue to regulars And more so to SSG. It’s their choice to use them or not.

The most hue and cry I see on the forum is about helmets. SSG is almost always using FAST helmets. What else do you want them to use? And no, SSG and not even regulars in PA use original PASGTs, just because it looks like a PASGT doesn’t make it one, modern PASGT style helmets have been in use with even US forces forever And are _*still*_ the standard helmet for The Entire USMC and several units in the US army. 
PAs standard issue helmet (and the one seen hence seen on SSG before) is the ACH/LCH series (which FYI US forces and SF widely used until the mid 2010s) and not the 80s PASGT series. If only people would bother to do research.


Great Janjua said:


> Firstly, Am talking in general about their equipment and from what I have seen in general, Am not talking about the exercise mate. Have a re-read.
> 
> I could give two hoots about what they wear when on exercises abroad or at home.
> 
> 
> Also, I forgot and thanks for the knock on my hollow head MR General, That NVGs and certain equipment do not have omnipresent mandates. What would we do without you Mr General
> 
> The point is a regular SSG soldier is not carrying quality tools for the job he does. Rather they are playing catch-up even though they have been on frontline battles.
> 
> The rest of your post is swinging at air type non-sense


You keep complaining but don’t have anything to back up what you say they are missing. They are a force from a third world country, we Don’t have money to throw around. If the SSG was playing so called “catch-up“ then they wouldn’t be performing as well as they did.

I’m not saying they’re the best equipped, not even among the top few, nor are the perfectly trained (if anything I think they need modern training practices a lot more than they need new equipment), And PA can certainly equip them better by managing funds better, but I think whatever The SSG is doing and whatever they’re being given is working, because last I checked a certain neighbor who loves to show off their SF with The latest Panoramic NVGs, rifles, optics and whatever else had quite a predicament when two lightly armed freedom fighters took over Their airbase and held it for an entire week because their SF said “*We aren’t trained for this situation“*

The SSG, like every other arm in the PA, needs modernization, of course there are efforts underway to Do so (if you really think SSGs training and kit hasn’t improved in the last 20 years then I’m afraid this is hopeless already), but we cannot expect them to look like a first world SF just because they spent 20 years on the frontline, if anything that War *was* the reason they didn’t get better gear, we simply didn’t have the money to buy it for them Because we had a damn war to fund, All the money came after the war ended.

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## Great Janjua

A force like the SSG should not be playing catch up when it comes to equipment and tactis, Since it has many glorious battles, skirmishes under it's belt. Experience plays a key role here folks.


iLION12345_1 said:


> Was practicality typing this answer but thought better of it, trying to explain for the Hundredth Time why the little gear seen in public photos and the heroics seen in Hollywood movies aren’t reality. Too many people just think every bit of kit tossed on to a soldier is improving his or her performance or that equipment is the only thing that matters. Annoys me to no end.
> 
> Even regulars have access to modern NVGs in the PA. I don’t know what makes people think that the SSG doesn’t, they just see Quad NVGs in a game and assume that is the only modern NVG and everything else is obsolete, despite having never _*once*_ seen an actual picture of SSG from a night Ops.
> 
> I‘m also surprised to hear that they think Ear protection isn’t present in the SSG or that it’s always used by everyone In other SFs, Though I agree with this one strongly, PA needs to pay more attention to ear protection, even if they think it’s not worth it, it’s good to see SSG at least has starting adopting it now.
> 
> Knee and elbow pads are very preference based, you can see even the best SFs not using them and using them as needed and wanted, I’m not sure what the poster thinks a “modern” knee pad is (Lol?) but they are already standard issue to regulars And more so to SSG. It’s their choice to use them or not.
> 
> The most hue and cry I see on the forum is about helmets. SSG is almost always using FAST helmets. What else do you want them to use? And no, SSG and not even regulars in PA use original PASGTs, just because it looks like a PASGT doesn’t make it one, modern PASGT style helmets have been in use with even US forces all the way to the 2010s. PAs standard issue helmet (and the one seen hence seen on SSG before) is the ACH/LCH series (which FYI US forces and SF widely used) and not the 80s PASGT series. If only people would bother to do research.


Let's a have go at elbow and knee pads since you find it so amusing.

Firstly, soldiers are human after all they are not machines who don't feel or sense absolute nothingness.
Knee and elbow pads are mandatory, when out on active duty it is not a case of ill wake up today and won't feel gravel, pebbles and stones without pads because I felt like a free soul, ditching the abomination that is pads. It don't work that way buddy. There is a code of conduct.

Modern day army uniforms have inbuilt pads/patches with special linen for knees and elbows. It's MANDATORY.


And finally yes I agree its not Hollywood or a ISPR drama serial where I would expect soldiers fully kitted out running around in broad daylight with NVGs and a 40kg kit bag and neither should you.


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## iLION12345_1

Great Janjua said:


> A force like the SSG should not be playing catch up when it comes to equipment and tactis, Since it has many glorious battles, skirmishes under it's belt.
> 
> Let's a have go at elbow and knee pads since you find it so amusing.
> 
> Firstly, soldiers are human after all they are not machines who don't feel or sense absolute nothingness.
> Knee and elbow pads are mandatory, when out on active duty it is not a case of ill wake up today and won't feel gravel, pebbles and stones without pads because I felt like a free soul, ditching the abomination that is pads. It don't work that way buddy. There is a code of conduct.
> 
> Modern day army uniforms have inbuilt pads for knees and elbows. It's MANDATORY.
> 
> 
> And finally yes I agree its not Hollywood or a ISPR drama serial where I would expect soldiers fully kitted out running around in broad daylight with NVGs and a 40kg kit bag and neither should you.


Just you saying those pads are *mandatory* makes your opinion fall short.

Go search up images of US Delta force, navy seals SAS, or basically any force on deployment that you consider a good standard, if you see _*all*_ of them wearing knee and elbow pads, you win. If you see it’s selective (much like it is in the SSG) then I win. Easy? Right? 

Elbow and knee pads are standard issue to each and every PA infantry soldier, not just the SSG. Yet you will rarely ever see any SF use elbow pads and Knee Pads are also selective. Do you want to tell them its Against the code of conduct?

I don’t find this amusing, just particularly annoying, I agree the SSG shouldn’t be playing catch up, but unless you want to fund the equipment, I’m afraid it will stay like that. We are a third world country, we do _*not*_ have the same kind of money. The SSG is much better equipped and trained than several countries that have better economic situations because the SSG has had to operate everyday for 20 years Despite not having the funding.

I will always advocate for modern training practices though, they do not cost much. They need to be implemented more often, something which again is already underway given how many exercises the SSG does with other modern SFs, but alas people will only see the pictures.

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## Great Janjua

iLION12345_1 said:


> Just you saying those pads are *mandatory* makes your opinion fall short.
> 
> Go search up images of US Delta force, navy seals SAS, or basically any force on deployment that you consider a good standard, if you see _*all*_ of them wearing knee and elbow pads, you win. If you see it’s selective (much like it is in the SSG) then I win. Easy? Right?
> 
> Elbow and knee pads are standard issue to each and every PA infantry soldier, not just the SSG. Yet you will rarely ever see any SF use elbow pads and Knee Pads are also selective. Do you want to tell them its Against the code of conduct?
> 
> I don’t find this amusing, just particularly annoying, I agree the SSG shouldn’t be playing catch up, but unless you want to fund the equipment, I’m afraid it will stay like that. We are a third world country, we do _*not*_ have the same kind of money. The SSG is much better equipped and trained than several countries that have better economic situations because the SSG has had to operate everyday for 20 years Despite not having the funding.
> 
> I will always advocate for modern training practices though, they do not cost much. They need to be implemented more often, something which again is already underway given how many exercises the SSG does with other modern SFs, but alas people will only see the pictures.


We can agree to disagree on certain aspects. Most Western forces now utilize inbuilt linen patches for elbows and knees. They perform in similar fashion to pads. 

But let's forget all this. The thing that matters is we agree on upgradation of training standards be it through exercises abroad or own implementations.

What we want is the best for our forces. 👍🏼

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## iLION12345_1

Great Janjua said:


> We can agree to disagree on certain aspects. Most Western forces now utilize inbuilt linen patches for elbows and knees. They perform in similar fashion to pads.
> 
> But let's forget all this. The thing that matters is we agree on upgradation of training standards be it through exercises abroad or own implementations.
> 
> What we want is the best for our forces. 👍🏼


I agree that SSG needs new uniforms, camo aside, they can be made a lot more useful in general, as is seen with the ones used in western SFs, ergonomics and utility.
There are a lot of things to improve in every arm of our armed forces, Wether equipment or tactics, as Long as we stay realistic about it given our economic condition. 
It is true that at the end of the day we all just want the betterment of our soldiers so they can perform in the best way, you are advocating for the same as well, we just have different ways of doing it. 

Thank you for being the bigger person and having a civil conversation, I apologize for my harsh words.

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## Great Janjua

iLION12345_1 said:


> I agree that SSG needs new uniforms, camo aside, they can be made a lot more useful in general, as is seen with the ones used in western SFs, ergonomics and utility.
> There are a lot of things to improve in every arm of our armed forces, Wether equipment or tactics, as Long as we stay realistic about it given our economic condition.
> It is true that at the end of the day we all just want the betterment of our soldiers so they can perform in the best way, you are advocating for the same as well, we just have different ways of doing it.
> 
> Thank you for being the bigger person and having a civil conversation, I apologize for my harsh words.


It takes two to tango. No need for an apology.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Great Janjua said:


> Modern day army uniforms have inbuilt pads/patches with special linen for knees and elbows. It's MANDATORY.


I was gonna say ones with inbuilt pads are quite comfortable.

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## Great Janjua

Ahmet Pasha said:


> I was gonna say ones with inbuilt pads are quite comfortable.


Your absolutely right.


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## Khan_patriot

Great Janjua said:


> Firstly, Am talking in general about their equipment and from what I have seen in general, Am not talking about the exercise mate. Have a re-read.
> 
> I could give two hoots about what they wear when on exercises abroad or at home.
> 
> 
> Also, I forgot and thanks for the knock on my hollow head MR General, That NVGs and certain equipment do not have omnipresent mandates. What would we do without you Mr General
> 
> The point is a regular SSG soldier is not carrying quality tools for the job he does. Rather they are playing catch-up even though they have been on frontline battles.
> 
> The rest of your post is swinging at air type non-sense


Oh thank you Mr operator for the clarification, I mistook you for a wannabe COD playing tacticool fanboy who has nothing better to do than critique his units SOF because ofc he knows better. The SSG rank and file yahoos and those noobs making decisions have not idea about what they are doing. The should let you join them so you can show them the light. You should be a shoe in given you vast knowledge of military gear, tactics, doctrine and the implications of enduring a war for two decade with limited finances. Show them how it's done.


iLION12345_1 said:


> Was practicality typing this answer but thought better of it, trying to explain for the Hundredth Time why the little gear seen in public photos and the heroics seen in Hollywood movies aren’t reality. Too many people just think every bit of kit tossed on to a soldier is improving his or her performance or that equipment is the only thing that matters. Annoys me to no end.
> 
> Even regulars have access to modern NVGs in the PA. I don’t know what makes people think that the SSG doesn’t, they just see Quad NVGs in a game and assume that is the only modern NVG and everything else is obsolete, despite having never _*once*_ seen an actual picture of SSG from a night Ops.
> 
> I‘m also surprised to hear that they think Ear protection isn’t present in the SSG or that it’s always used by everyone In other SFs, Though I agree with this one strongly, PA needs to pay more attention to ear protection, even if they think it’s not worth it, it’s good to see SSG at least has starting adopting it now.
> 
> Knee and elbow pads are very preference based, you can see even the best SFs not using them and using them as needed and wanted, I’m not sure what the poster thinks a “modern” knee pad is (Lol?) but they are already standard issue to regulars And more so to SSG. It’s their choice to use them or not.
> 
> The most hue and cry I see on the forum is about helmets. SSG is almost always using FAST helmets. What else do you want them to use? And no, SSG and not even regulars in PA use original PASGTs, just because it looks like a PASGT doesn’t make it one, modern PASGT style helmets have been in use with even US forces forever And are _*still*_ the standard helmet for The Entire USMC and several units in the US army.
> PAs standard issue helmet (and the one seen hence seen on SSG before) is the ACH/LCH series (which FYI US forces and SF widely used until the mid 2010s) and not the 80s PASGT series. If only people would bother to do research.


Couldnt have said it better myself mate.


Great Janjua said:


> Your absolutely right.


This is based off you vast experience of doing multiple click insertions with combat load I am sure. *salute*

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## Metal 0-1

Khan_patriot said:


> Oh thank you Mr operator for the clarification, I mistook you for a wannabe COD playing tacticool fanboy who has nothing better to do than critique his units SOF because ofc he knows better. The SSG rank and file yahoos and those noobs making decisions have not idea about what they are doing. The should let you join them so you can show them the light. You should be a shoe in given you vast knowledge of military gear, tactics, doctrine and the implications of enduring a war for two decade with limited finances. Show them how it's done.
> 
> Couldnt have said it better myself mate.
> 
> This is based off you vast experience of doing multiple click insertions with combat load I am sure. *salute*



Thank you Mr. Vet Bro


ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 777852


Why I have a feeling they are not wearing their plates?

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## SSGOPERATOR

Metal 0-1 said:


> Thank you Mr. Vet Bro
> 
> Why I have a feeling they are not wearing their plates?


I am just a noobra but some soldiers (even western) some times just take out the plates because they say it make them move easily and faster and makes them light.


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## Metal 0-1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> I am just a noobra but some soldiers (even western) some times just take out the plates because they say it make them move easily and faster and makes them light.


Yeah but you are training like you fight don't you?

and you're playing with live ammo. I don't think you'll ditch your plates during live fire exercises.


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## iLION12345_1

Metal 0-1 said:


> Thank you Mr. Vet Bro
> 
> Why I have a feeling they are not wearing their plates?


They aren’t wearing their plates here, just like the rifles aren’t loaded Either (Can see empty mags in one of the photos, semi-transparent)
It’s the opening ceremony, they probably had to stand there for a long while or more likely had just been issued the equipment. They don’t have any magazines in the pouches either unlike the other two forces, since its not their equipment.

They are using plates in the actual videos of the exercises however.


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## bhola record

Two pdf members arguing about ssg gear.
no offense guys.

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## iLION12345_1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> I am just a noobra but some soldiers (even western) some times just take out the plates because they say it make them move easily and faster and makes them light.


More common in SFs than they’d want you to believe, but less so in Pakistani SFs, there’s less freedom of decision here. Sometimes that’s a good thing, sometimes it’s not.


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## Reichmarshal

GHQ wanted to change the uniform but SSG was dead set against it, still I am told something is in the works. 

Ps don't read too much in the pics that come out of SSG during these exercises.
As the proof is in the pudding n from afg, to srilanka, to Bosnia, to WOT n to afg again.
SSG al hum du Lilla has wiped the floor with who ever has come forward as their enemy n has challenged them.

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## Great Janjua

Khan_patriot said:


> Oh thank you Mr operator for the clarification, I mistook you for a wannabe COD playing tacticool fanboy who has nothing better to do than critique his units SOF because ofc he knows better. The SSG rank and file yahoos and those noobs making decisions have not idea about what they are doing. The should let you join them so you can show them the light. You should be a shoe in given you vast knowledge of military gear, tactics, doctrine and the implications of enduring a war for two decade with limited finances. Show them how it's done.
> 
> Couldnt have said it better myself mate.
> 
> This is based off you vast experience of doing multiple click insertions with combat load I am sure. *salute*


If your looking to drop the soap Mr General do it somewhere else, all this swinging at air type nonsense ain't gonna faze me, that's for sure.


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## Khan_patriot

Great Janjua said:


> If your looking to drop the soap Mr General do it somewhere else, all this swinging at air type nonsense ain't gonna faze me, that's for sure.


Who said anything about trying to faze you. Pdf comments should be the last thing that faze anyone. I stand by every word I've said. Self proclaimed gurus who have no credentials in the subject should not be commenting on anything they have very little understanding of especially SSG. Kudos. I've had enough of this convo.


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## Great Janjua

Khan_patriot said:


> Who said anything about trying to faze you. Pdf comments should be the last thing that faze anyone. I stand by every word I've said. Self proclaimed gurus who have no credentials in the subject should not be commenting on anything they have very little understanding of especially SSG. Kudos. I've had enough of this convo.


I certainly hit your nerves. What the hell is this all self guru type bs. I was pointing out the obvious and I stand by it. If you can't respect people's opinions and views on a defence forum without throwing a hissy fit then GOD help you Mr General. 

I bet you accumulated all this Tacticoooool knowledge from *Charge of the looney brigade*

I have been nothing but nice to you.

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## SSGOPERATOR

iLION12345_1 said:


> More common in SFs than they’d want you to believe, but less so in Pakistani SFs, there’s less freedom of decision here. Sometimes that’s a good thing, sometimes it’s not.


I don't know much but the freedom of decision in SSG is more than you can imagine. I am just a young boy right now and not in the Army or anything but spent some time with some of them and have some friends in Pakistan SOF. They are like cowboys and very much unconventional.
@PanzerKiel @Reichmarshal 








Even more than this.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Reichmarshal said:


> GHQ wanted to change the uniform but SSG was dead set against it, still I am told something is in the works.
> 
> Ps don't read too much in the pics that come out of SSG during these exercises.
> As the proof is in the pudding n from afg, to srilanka, to Bosnia, to WOT n to afg again.
> SSG al hum du Lilla has wiped the floor with who ever has come forward as their enemy n has challenged them.


Exactly. Actually, I used to think that SSG is old school, but now I think *All By the Grace of Allah,* not even the so-called Modern SOF will dare to challenge them.




Listen to this podcast till 1:27:52

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## PanzerKiel

SSGOPERATOR said:


> I don't know much but the freedom of decision in SSG is more than you can imagine. I am just a young boy right now and not in the Army or anything but spent some time with some of them and have some friends in Pakistan SOF. They are like cowboys and very much unconventional.
> @PanzerKiel @Reichmarshal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even more than this.


That freedom of action is now almost common in the whole army.

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## Khan_patriot

Great Janjua said:


> If you can't respect people's opinions and views on a defence forum without throwing a hissy fit then GOD help you Mr General.
> 
> I bet you accumulated all this Tacticoooool knowledge from *Charge of the looney brigade*


I have no problem with anyones opinions as long as they are substianted and not pushed out their rear ends. The source of my tacticool knowledge is irrelevant, yours is definitely a youtube binge. Dont flatter yourself Mr operator my nerves are impervious to any and all verbal diarrhoea a kid on pdf spits out. I mean we've all been there but you take it to a whole new level.
PS let me know how it goes when you actually rock up to GHQ and try and use all this tacticool knowledge irl, I bet they'll even confer the Tamgha -e- wannabe on you for all the hours you spent on YouTube trying to substantiate your brain farts . Until then adios.

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## Metal 0-1

SSG-N is the only SF branch which is modernizing with high pace. It's not clear but seems like they are rocking Crye look alike plate carriers

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## bhola record

Metal 0-1 said:


> SSG-N is the only SF branch which is modernizing with high pace. It's not clear but seems like they are rocking Crye look alike plate carriers


boys are less but they are lethal, that is how SF i think should be small components, easy to move and nobody knows true size.

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## Metal 0-1

Way better kit setup than we've been seeing in past.

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## Great Janjua

Metal 0-1 said:


> SSG-N is the only SF branch which is modernizing with a high pace. It's not clear but seems like they are rocking Crye look-alike plate carriers


SSG-N was always ahead of the Special forces pack. Since the start of war on terror, these guys know their shit. So to speak.

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## Great Janjua

bhola record said:


> boys are less but they are lethal, that is how SF i think should be small components, easy to move and nobody knows true size.


Yes small yet very effective. For example, UK has a very stabilized structure for specialised forces small but punchy. I think that can be said about the uk armed forces, in general, They even have a 1500 to 2000 based Special forces support group.

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## iLION12345_1

Metal 0-1 said:


> SSG-N is the only SF branch which is modernizing with high pace. It's not clear but seems like they are rocking Crye look alike plate carriers


SSW has been doing decent in this regard too, obviously it’s much easier for either to do given they’re both smaller than army SSG even if you combine and double them. The navy especially has had a lot more budget to spare recently.

Army SSG should start making some stronger distinctions by now (they Did with ZATU but imo not strong enough), if they want to keep an SF force that large, then by all means, they should, it’s an advantage. But start equipping the best ones with the best gear instead of trying to get everyone the same gear for which you’d need so much more money, these SSW and SSG(N) modernizations weren’t cheap.

Basically, the army needs to enforce the tier system stronger, they’ve already started work on it, ZATU and some others are getting the better gear and will be the higher end, while The rest, depending on their role, can be of more general use. 

Another reason army SSG is bigger is because they have dedicated roles, SSW and SSG(N) train everyone for everything, much like usual SFs and SEALs. 
SSG adopts the approach of making specific companies and units for every task, yes they’re all given general training of everything, but their advanced training corresponds more to a specific thing. Like ZATU for AT, Musa for sea-borne Ops, Powindahs for mountain/hill Ops etc. This may make their individuals less well rounded than the other two, but for their specific task they’re absolutely the best of what we have.

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## bhola record

iLION12345_1 said:


> Another reason army SSG is bigger is because they have dedicated roles, SSW and SSG(N) train everyone for everything, much like usual SFs and SEALs.


and so SSG(A) get equipment they need, not the equipment our pdf member wants them to have.

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## iLION12345_1

bhola record said:


> and so SSG(A) get equipment they need, not the equipment our pdf member wants them to have.


If PDF was in charge of equipment acquisitions for the SSG we’d have something akin To the terminator walking around But we’d also be broke. SSG only buys what they need.

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## iLION12345_1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> SSG(A) also trains its commandos in almost everything.
> Actually, SSW itself sends its volunteers to SSG for training and most of the SSGn commandos who pass the ssgn training then apply for SSG training because ssgn training is more maritime-based and its land phase training is not that good
> 
> actually, i am also just a noobra and don't know much but the problem with most people here is they don't have authentic info and don't know much about SSG and stuff but pretend they are some war veterans and don't accept their mistakes


SSG(A) training starts off generalized just like in Every Pakistani SF but they have dedicated companies and units for dedicated roles, and that’s what they train more for.

SSGN has the most generalized training, they are SEALs. Their training is not solely or specifically maritime based but their operational usage might be. Same for SSW.

There aren’t different basic SF courses, the basic one is the same. Done at the same place. By all of them.


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## PanzerKiel

SSGOPERATOR said:


> SSG(A) also trains its commandos in almost everything.
> Actually, SSW itself sends its volunteers to SSG for training and most of the SSGn commandos who pass the ssgn training then apply for SSG training because ssgn training is more maritime-based and its land phase training is not that good


All commandos of all three services do the basic Commando course from Cherat.... Once they are done with the course and get their wings.... Then they go to the special operation schools of their respective services for advanced training of their respective fields.

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> All commandos of all three services do the basic Commando course from Cherat.... Once they are done with the course and get their wings.... Then they go to the special operation schools of their respective services for advanced training of their respective fields.


Sir if a person qualifies basic commando but fails OACC, will he be RTU'D?

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## iLION12345_1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Bro no offense but about a month or two i talked to and SSG(A) retired Colonel and asked which unit is best and who is deployed where. His replies were(not his exact words) that Every unit in SSG including Zarrar specializes in all kind of major ops and minor ops. Actually i asked if zarrar is the best. He said all the 8 battalions specialize in everything including in what zarrar specializes that is hostage rescue. and zarrar also practices for everything that which the battalions do for. the only thing is that zarrar is gets the most equipment for hostage rescue and the other battalions don't the hostage rescue specific(light) equipment. and some parts of zarrar is deployed in jungles, mountain or elsewhere based OAs and some part of zarrar is on standby for hostage rescue ops if the need arises in Pakistan. and cqb is something that you need to practice a lot and always be in momentum especially if it is a hostage rescue op where someone else's life is at risk that's why in Pan Am, Ghq, Laal Masjid and Aps zarrar was called in. But all the other battalions can do hostage rescue and also is deployed for such ops but zarrar came into the light of media. and the Colonel also told that Any Unit can be deployed anywhere and a commando once qualified can be called in for any job. All of them cross-train and all of them are like jack of all trades but master of some. they are most like the UKSF(they are trained generally) and not like US SOF becuase US has specific Sof for specific job( Green beret and SAD for guerilla warfare, navy seals for DA, Devgru and Delta for CT)
> Actually now our SFs don't have a good relationship with US SOF but training with UKSF is still conducted just not told on the media. And some part of zarrar is now even stationed near Peshawar(i won't tell the specific place) afte the APS attack. If this tells you something.
> My english is a bit bad here but this is how it was explained to me and most part of SSGn training is about seaborne ops and if you go into a BEL Special Operation with the SSGn level of land phase training then only Allah can save you perhaps that's why after being selected in SSGn most of the officer and soldiers apply for SSG(A) course because SSG(A) is much more experienced in such domain.
> The 8 battalions are like the squadrons of SAS and zarrar is special projects team/Counter Revolutionary Warfare wing. All battalions are trained in CT but they get refreshers after some months while the part of zarrar stationed and on rotation for CT is mostly practicing CT again and again if the need arises they are called in. This is authentic info
> 
> *JazakAllah.
> Allah Hu Akbar
> Allāhu ʾaʿlam*
> 
> Sir your info is very outdated now and yes for all of them the basic course used to be same but now they have changed. Now in the 34 week long SSGn course(aka SEAL course) they mostly teach you only the 'S' part of SEALs and the rest 'EAL' part you learn in SSG(A).



I‘m sure one of us is right, let’s leave It at that. No big deal.


PanzerKiel said:


> All commandos of all three services do the basic Commando course from Cherat.... Once they are done with the course and get their wings.... Then they go to the special operation schools of their respective services for advanced training of their respective fields.


I enjoyed my time at Kallar Kahar But The SSW guys didn’t let me shoot the F2000. Still mad at them 😡

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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> Sir if a person qualifies basic commando but fails OACC, will he be RTU'D?


Dear, two parallel courses are run... 
For officers it is OACC.. Officers Advanced Commando course.... While for soldiers its SBCC... Soldiers Basic Commando Course..... There is no such thing as a simple basic commando course.

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## Reichsmarschall

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Leave a message on my profile. I don't know if i should tell it here or not.


It's not that big of a secret.

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## iLION12345_1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Actually, the name first originated from the Soviet-Afghan invasion in which the Soviet troops faced a group of Mujahideen who were MashAllah very lethal, was very versatile and could handle a variety of weapons and equipment. Some Russians still call them 'Black Angels' because they were mostly dressed in black. Then the name somehow evolved and became Black Storks. Russian intel believed that they were Pakistani Mercenaries and most probably Pakistan's SSG Commandos
> 
> Not entirely true.


I don’t know if this story has any truth to it, and I sincerely doubt it does. Don‘t believe everything you read and see.

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## Reichsmarschall

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Here I can only say that you must go through only Long Course and not short service comission or other courses.
> @PanzerKiel just give me a reply should I tell it here or not. I am just a kid and don't know if I should tell it here or not.


Its axiomatic that anyone who wants to join fighting arm will go through L/C however you shouldn't divulge state secret on an open Forum. Imagine the damage indians will do to our strategic assets if they learn about SSG induction process.

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## iLION12345_1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Actually, they themselves call themselves Black Storks too but I don't know if it was SSG or the Russians who first made up this name but the SSG commandos I met I didn't even use the word Black Storks. They themselves told me that they are also called Guerrillas, Black Storks, etc. which are their nicknames. They are taught this in their training and in SSG.
> So yes they themselves use this name and the most authentic info is that this name originated from the Russians.
> *Allahu Alam*
> Just like the name Red Devils and Ghost Operatives was given to Para SF by their enemies and now they themselves use it for themselves. These are just nicknames.


I mean no offense, but please, do not believe everything you hear and say everywhere and learn to admit when you’re wrong. Do not obsess over things like these, you will annoy people. There are those who know better Than you.

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## PanzerKiel

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Here I can only say that you must go through only Long Course and not short service commission or other courses.


TGC course officers also come to SSG.


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## PanzerKiel

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Yup they do but like I said here:
> 
> 
> For their, degree PA invest money in them and then they are not allowed to opt for other arms much because they have the role for which money was invested on them.


There is no 5% for their permission, like you said. SSG is a volunteer service, you fill up a form and your name automatically comes up for initial tests and training.


SSGOPERATOR said:


> For their, degree PA invest money in them and then they are not allowed to opt for other arms much because they have the role for which money was invested on them.



Same investment is done on fighting and supporting arms officers whom the army makes do advanced courses from foreign countries as well... But no there is no bar on joining SSG. 

Like I said, already TGC officers are there, if there was any bar, C they wouldn't have been allowed...

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## PanzerKiel

SSGOPERATOR said:


> My brother is from TGC and yes there is more than a "5%" chance but now they aren't easily allowed any more.


Well then, since you're brother is from TGC, you're the best judge then.

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## PanzerKiel

SSGOPERATOR said:


> It also depends on their units and COs but most of them just don't get permission


That's the point, it all depends on their CO, that has some bearing... But that doesn't mean that it's official.... CO ki apni bhi marzi hai... But officially, once the request gets processed, the student officer has to report for training..... 
Don't associate this problem with the army that the army doesn't welcome them in SSG.

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## Reichsmarschall

@SSGOPERATOR watch from 1:12 onwards


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## ghazi52

یاد دھانی ضروری ھے بھائی -اکثر لوگ بھول جاتے ہیں

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## bhola record

ghazi52 said:


> یاد دھانی ضروری ھے بھائی -اکثر لوگ بھول جاتے ہیں
> 
> View attachment 778740


ye larka SSG ka nai lag rha.Part of disguise?


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## PanzerKiel

bhola record said:


> ye larka SSG ka nai lag rha.Part of disguise?


Nopes, he's from SSG, I know him.

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## iLION12345_1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> JazakAllah bro. @iLION12345_1 Sir here it is at 1:12.
> 
> As much as I know SSG is always open for everyone but I have heard that they prefer junior officers with less than 5 years of service. Still, I know that a major was allowed to join. The request just needs to be put through.


I still stand by what I said because it’s true. The names origins are not as you say and the SSG has never really preferred it, it’s gained popularity because of online usage so ISPR put it there for the public consumption. I doubt the people making these graphics and videos are from the SSG Or even the army anyways.
If you do some searching you’d realize most of the times the name “black storks“ Is used…it’s the Indian media using it. 

@Metal 0-1
Hope you’ve been following these videos of Uc qardas in Azerbaijan From this channel (https://youtube.com/c/azerbaijan_mod) The training here would be more along the lines of what we’d expect it to be, when it’s not just for cameras, notice how none of the actual training is shown Unlike by ISPR where they just play out some of it simply for the ceremony or the camera. 
Kind of wish SSG could have taken its own gear though, I know that’s not standard practice but it makes them look under-equipped using foreign gear.















I’ve been present at Kallar Kahar when SSW trains, it’s not just a fluid room clearance or In and out hostage rescue, they stop a dozen times every hour because even the smallest mistake is pointed out, flagging your own teammate during training is a major no go, you’d get more than just chewed out for that. For ceremonies and camera they let it pass. The recent PATS “reality show” was a cringe fest but if you somehow found the patience to sit and watch through it you’d notice how careful they are with their muzzles and triggers in it, even just being regulars.

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## iLION12345_1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Whatever you say. Yes the name might have originated from somewhere else. But as I said IT IS USED BY SSG COMMANDOS THEMSELVES whom I have talked to. And Sir the final thing I can say si meet someone from SSG(A) yourself. Baki Sir, just leave it.
> Baki Sb choro Sir ji dusri tasweer mey he's using SSG Formation sign. Lolz.


Lol. You probably meet the president on a daily basis. Hamari itni pohonch kahan. Going off your messages you’ve met every bloke in the SSG. I’m sure you know better. 

The guy in the second pic is Azeri, Probably got the SSG patch from one of them.

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## iLION12345_1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> No bro, AlhamdUllilah Cherat is just not that far from where I live and have an army background. InshaAllah you too can make some friends here if you someday visit 22 SSB.
> MashAllah the formation sign has a beautiful definition:
> 'In the hours of darkness, we appear like thunders in the sky, with silent weapons in our hands, and vanish like the morning star".
> 
> InshaAllah just come and enjoy SkyBridge.


I have experienced enough of the Pakistani military, short of actual service, don’t worry 😂

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## iLION12345_1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Thanks for your service at PDF.


It’s sad how people with “military backgrounds” act like they are meant to have some authority over knowledge about the military. Just because you’ve “talked to XYZ” or “met XYZ” doesn’t mean much, you’re not the only one, basically everyone has.

You don’t see me telling you that I have a military background in every post I make but I can assure you my experience and yours aren’t even closer to comparable, I know that because I don’t have to mention It to justify what I say. But I’ll leave it there. You come off as little more than a fanboy when you speak this way friend, I advise you to be more careful, you will annoy people.

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## PanzerKiel

iLION12345_1 said:


> I still stand by what I said because it’s true. The names origins are not as you say and the SSG has never really preferred it, it’s gained popularity because of online usage so ISPR put it there for the public consumption. I doubt the people making these graphics and videos are from the SSG Or even the army anyways.
> If you do some searching you’d realize most of the times the name “black storks“ Is used…it’s the Indian media using it.
> 
> @Metal 0-1
> Hope you’ve been following these videos of Uc qardas in Azerbaijan From this channel (https://youtube.com/c/azerbaijan_mod) The training here would be more along the lines of what we’d expect it to be, when it’s not just for cameras, notice how none of the actual training is shown Unlike by ISPR where they just play out some of it simply for the ceremony or the camera.
> Kind of wish SSG could have taken its own gear though, I know that’s not standard practice but it makes them look under-equipped using foreign gear.
> View attachment 778866
> View attachment 778867
> View attachment 778868
> View attachment 778869
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve been present at Kallar Kahar when SSW trains, it’s not just a fluid room clearance or In and out hostage rescue, they stop a dozen times every hour because even the smallest mistake is pointed out, flagging your own teammate during training is a major no go, you’d get more than just chewed out for that. For ceremonies and camera they let it pass. The recent PATS “reality show” was a cringe fest but if you somehow found the patience to sit and watch through it you’d notice how careful they are with their muzzles and triggers in it, even just being regulars.


With regards to taking own gear or not.... It solely depends on the size of our contingent..... 

If the contingent is big, normally our C130s are detailed to take them , that allows our troops to take whatever gear they want to... 

However, if our contingent is small, then they travel through commercial airlines and then of course they can't take their military gear at all.

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## bhola record

Can anyone tell me what is a lone ranger exercise if anyone knows?


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## Metal 0-1

iLION12345_1 said:


> I still stand by what I said because it’s true. The names origins are not as you say and the SSG has never really preferred it, it’s gained popularity because of online usage so ISPR put it there for the public consumption. I doubt the people making these graphics and videos are from the SSG Or even the army anyways.
> If you do some searching you’d realize most of the times the name “black storks“ Is used…it’s the Indian media using it.
> 
> @Metal 0-1
> Hope you’ve been following these videos of Uc qardas in Azerbaijan From this channel (https://youtube.com/c/azerbaijan_mod) The training here would be more along the lines of what we’d expect it to be, when it’s not just for cameras, notice how none of the actual training is shown Unlike by ISPR where they just play out some of it simply for the ceremony or the camera.
> Kind of wish SSG could have taken its own gear though, I know that’s not standard practice but it makes them look under-equipped using foreign gear.
> View attachment 778866
> View attachment 778867
> View attachment 778868
> View attachment 778869
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve been present at Kallar Kahar when SSW trains, it’s not just a fluid room clearance or In and out hostage rescue, they stop a dozen times every hour because even the smallest mistake is pointed out, flagging your own teammate during training is a major no go, you’d get more than just chewed out for that. For ceremonies and camera they let it pass. The recent PATS “reality show” was a cringe fest but if you somehow found the patience to sit and watch through it you’d notice how careful they are with their muzzles and triggers in it, even just being regulars.


Thanks for the link I'll look into it.


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## Metal 0-1

So the only two things I noted are Turkish soldiers were good in Reaction to contact and switching to sidearm drill.

and Pakistanis are going old school mag grip.

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## Great Janjua

.


Metal 0-1 said:


> So the only two things I noted are Turkish soldiers were good in Reaction to contact and switching to sidearm drill.
> 
> and Pakistanis are going old school mag grip.


I think sidearms are not given enough attention in Pk armed forces. Basing off of my assessment yet again from countless videos, the grip, stance, and muzzle awareness is mediocre at best.

We like dumping mags. Taking things slowly on the range is the best way to improve.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

Opening ceremony of the Joint Anti-Terrorist Exercise (JATE) 2021, held at National Counter Terrorism Centre (NCTC), Pabbi as part of SCO Regional Anti Terrorism Structure.

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## ghazi52



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## Great Janjua

@Metal 0-1


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## Bossman

Great Janjua said:


> @Metal 0-1


Are you the Fashion Police for Pakistan Military?


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## iLION12345_1

Great Janjua said:


> @Metal 0-1


Must be from different Units, some get more of the newer gear, some don’t. Some I know in the forces even prefer the older helmet because the High-cut one has higher risks of getting shrapnel in your side (one of the reasons it’s usually only used by SFs while regular militaries always use full helmets).

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## Falconless

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 779720


A christian officer? nice to see diversity in the armed forces.


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## Metal 0-1

Great Janjua said:


> @Metal 0-1


These guys are from SSG-N my dude.

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## bhola record

iLION12345_1 said:


> Must be from different Units, some get more of the newer gear, some don’t. Some I know in the forces even prefer the older helmet because the High-cut one has higher risks of getting shrapnel in your side (one of the reasons it’s usually only used by SFs while regular militaries always use full helmets).


so we have tiers within the ssg.

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## iLION12345_1

Falconless said:


> A christian officer? nice to see diversity in the armed forces.


He wouldn’t be the only one, there’s many Christian and Hindu soldiers and officers. Some Christian generals too.

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## ghazi52

Trilateral Exercise Three Brothers 2021 culminated at Baku Azerbaijan.

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## Great Janjua

Bossman said:


> Are you the Fashion Police for Pakistan Military?


No. Yes, I made a mistake as some members pointed out and I accept that. But you had to be that one ganda anda to tell me otherwise. Now trott along little fellow.


A soldiers kit is not viewed in a fashion sense it's perceived as a survival kit. The decent the kit, the more our soldiers have fighting and withstanding odds. 

Only ignoramuses like you perceive forces kit through a fashion lens. Illustrates your thought process.


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## Bossman

Great Janjua said:


> No. Yes, I made a mistake as some members pointed out and I accept that. But you had to be that one ganda anda to tell me otherwise. Now trott along little fellow.
> 
> 
> A soldiers kit is not viewed in a fashion sense it's perceived as a survival kit. The decent the kit, the more our soldiers have fighting and withstanding odds.
> 
> Only ignoramuses like you perceive forces kit through a fashion lens. Illustrates your thought process.



In fact, I don’t and and I don’t like folks always criticizing gear as it doesn’t meet their magazine cover or video game expectations. I rather have an effective fighting force than a good looking one.

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## ghazi52

Cuirassier

@leftofthepincer

#OTD in 1987, while leading the reserve team of the SS Group's Ebrahim Company into assault at the Rana/Ashok Post, at Bilafond La, Captain Iqbal Khan makes the ultimate sacrifice as he engages the enemy bunkers with an RPG-7. posthumously awarded the Hilal-e-Jurat.






"it was a bold plan put into action by very brave and dedicated troops. It failed primarily because of insufficient understanding of the impact of terrain on military operations." LTG (retd.) VR Raghavan - former IA DGMO's comments on Operation Qiadat. EBRAHIM COMPANY - SSG





Iqbal was commissioned in the Army Service Corps. attached is a tribute by Major (R) Agha Humayun Amin, a brilliant Pakistani military historian, and a bird app friend. "sir jab waqt aayega tou golioon kee baarish ko bhi paar karoonga."

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## ghazi52

On this day 

As Operation Qiadat reaches it's climax at the dizzy heights of Siachen, Captain Salik Nawaz Cheema, a team leader in the Ebrahim Company of the SS Group's 3 Commando "Powindah" Bn, is grievously wounded by machine gun fire as he closes in on the Rana Post, aka Ashok Post.








the daring assault involved troops advancing uphill in extreme terrain and conditions, under direct enemy observation, making it a risky gamble at the Bilafond La. was a first for the PA in this icy wasteland. Salik was awarded the Sitara-e-Jurat. a memorial at the Attock Fort.

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## PanzerKiel

A light commando

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## Great Janjua

PanzerKiel said:


> A light commando
> 
> View attachment 780093


Tremendous, in all this craziness and contentious environment, LCB has been diversifying to challenges that plague the modern battlefield. 

A true testament to the fact our thinking is reasonable, it just needs the right buttons punched in.

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## ghazi52

CJCSC General Nadeem Raza, visited Russia to witness Exercise Peace Mission-2021 in the ambit of Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO). 
CJCSC also attended Chiefs of General Staff of Armed Forces of SCO member states meeting

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

Ayub pins the Sitara-e-Jurat on the mother of Captain Muhammad Sadiq of the SS Group, who was killed in action at Jandiala, near Zafarwal, on 21ˢᵗ September 1965. a gunner officer, he had served at Kutch and in the Salahuddin Force, involved in Operation Gibraltar.

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## ghazi52

Operation rah-e-raast.

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## ghazi52

Opening Ceremony of Exercise Druzhba VI held at Molkino training Area, Krasnodar, Russia.

Special Forces of Pakistan & Russia are participating in the two week exercise in counter terrorism. Chief Guest Mayor of Garyachi Kaluch, Sergy Belopolsky.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

*Exercise Cormorant Strike 2021’*

11th multinational ‘Exercise Cormorant Strike 2021’ concluded at Colombo, Sri Lanka. Pakistan Navy's Special Service Group (SSG) participated in multinational exercise conducted under the auspices of Sri Lankan Army at Infantry Training Center Minneriya.

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## ghazi52

Closing Ceremony of Joint Anti-Terrorist Exercise (JATE) 2021 held at National Counter Terrorism Centre, Pabbi.
1st military exercise conducted in Pakistan under Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (#SCO) Regional Anti Terrorism Structure. 












.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

*Army Adventure Courses*

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## ghazi52

Captain Zamir Abbas, a Piffer officer serving in the SS Group's 2ⁿᵈ Commando "Rahber" Battalion, who was sadly killed in action at the Bhambore Hills on 26ᵗʰ August 2006, during Operation Destiny. hailed from Gilgit. 
note the 'SKYDIVER' Tab i.e. HALO qualified.

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## ghazi52

Naik Ayub "Hunzai" Baig Tamgha-e-Basalat 
Karrar Haidri Company (RSF) 
10 October 2009 GHQ Rawalpindi







The 28-year-old trooper, hailing from the NLI and the Powindahs, who made the ultimate sacrifice in an extremely arduous hostage-rescue mission.
..

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## ghazi52

A picture from Pakistan and Russia military exercise Druzhba-VI .. 
*
Russians got the map of Pakistan RIGHT.*

Note: Background shows the complete map of Pakistan .

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## Khan_patriot

Bossman said:


> In fact, I don’t and and I don’t like folks always criticizing gear as it doesn’t meet their magazine cover or video game expectations. I rather have an effective fighting force than a good looking one.


No point in talking to these guys, trust me I've tried. They are buzzed from all the Call of Duty they play and spew whatever non sense they've gathered from their most recent YouTube binges onto this thread.

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## Metal 0-1

Here we have a washed up vet bro.

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## blain2

Great Janjua said:


> We can agree to disagree on certain aspects. Most Western forces now utilize inbuilt linen patches for elbows and knees. They perform in similar fashion to pads.
> 
> But let's forget all this. The thing that matters is we agree on upgradation of training standards be it through exercises abroad or own implementations.
> 
> What we want is the best for our forces. 👍🏼



You need money for all of this. There's no more CSF available and the US MNNA status is also suspect and the defence budget is stuck at $11B/year. There is only so much you can get in terms of capital acquisitions.

Secondly, uniforms aren't going to get replaced because the trends are changing mid-stream in the life of the approved uniforms. There is an entire process for the uniforms to be approved as it is a costly process. I agree with you that the gear is dated as are uniforms but the question is, are they functional and if that is so then the answer is yes.

The camouflage in use is still fine and relevant across the LoC and specially in the X Corps area of operations. SSG, when deployed with other units are wearing the standard army uniform to blend in and I believe the new uniform is a good camouflage even for SSG. More importantly, SSG should wear the same uniform as the rest of the army. No need for separate uniforms.

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## ghazi52

On this day...

Sepoy Rabnawaz of the SS Group's Zarrar Jarri (ATU) makes the ultimate sacrifice in the aftermath of Operation Janbaz, the rescue mission launched after the attack on GHQ Rawalpindi. 

Originally from the "Powindahs", He was awarded the Tamgha-e-Basalat. sitting on the right.

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## R Wing

blain2 said:


> You need money for all of this. There's no more CSF available and the US MNNA status is also suspect and the defence budget is stuck at $11B/year. There is only so much you can get in terms of capital acquisitions.
> 
> Secondly, uniforms aren't going to get replaced because the trends are changing mid-stream in the life of the approved uniforms. There is an entire process for the uniforms to be approved as it is a costly process. I agree with you that the gear is dated as are uniforms but the question is, are they functional and if that is so then the answer is yes.
> 
> The camouflage in use is still fine and relevant across the LoC and specially in the X Corps area of operations. SSG, when deployed with other units are donning on the standard army uniform to blend in and I believe the new uniform is a good camouflage even for SSG. More importantly, SSG should wear the same uniform as the rest of the army. No need for separate uniforms.



One plot sold somewhere can upgrade vests and possibly a few other things across the entirety of the SSG.

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## iLION12345_1

blain2 said:


> You need money for all of this. There's no more CSF available and the US MNNA status is also suspect and the defence budget is stuck at $11B/year. There is only so much you can get in terms of capital acquisitions.
> 
> Secondly, uniforms aren't going to get replaced because the trends are changing mid-stream in the life of the approved uniforms. There is an entire process for the uniforms to be approved as it is a costly process. I agree with you that the gear is dated as are uniforms but the question is, are they functional and if that is so then the answer is yes.
> 
> The camouflage in use is still fine and relevant across the LoC and specially in the X Corps area of operations. SSG, when deployed with other units are donning on the standard army uniform to blend in and I believe the new uniform is a good camouflage even for SSG. More importantly, SSG should wear the same uniform as the rest of the army. No need for separate uniforms.


Absolutely agree with the last point. And SSG themselves understand this too in certain environments. Why stand out? That’s just giving away an advantage of surprise.

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## PanzerKiel

iLION12345_1 said:


> Absolutely agree with the last point. And SSG themselves understand this too in certain environments. Why stand out? That’s just giving away an advantage of surprise.


With regards to open identification of SSG.... Under Gen Mitha, they used to wear normal baloch regiment beret and shoulder titles..... But then... After him... In his own words.... The rot started to set in....

It started with wearing SSG wing.... SSG shoulder titles and beret.... Use of SSG's individuals on VIP protection duties, free fall and SSG's contingent parade on 23 March..... Air Marshals in 70s and 80s...SSG formation sign.... 
And the remaining.... Social media allows everyone to show off.... Something in our national psyche..... Just like Wagah parade...

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## R Wing

PanzerKiel said:


> With regards to open identification of SSG.... Under Gen Mitha, they used to wear normal baloch regiment beret and shoulder titles..... But then... After him... In his own words.... The rot started to set in....
> 
> It started with wearing SSG wing.... SSG shoulder titles and beret.... Use of SSG's individuals on VIP protection duties, free fall and SSG's contingent parade on 23 March..... Air Marshals in 70s and 80s...SSG formation sign....
> And the remaining.... Social media allows everyone to show off.... Something in our national psyche..... Just like Wagah parade...



Absolutely. Even special mission units like Zarrar had obvious identification signs and self-aggrandizing T-shirts, etc. (the infamous black THE ANTI-TERRORISTS one, for example).

What do you think about raising competent paramilitary spec ops forces for ALL internal tasks and refocusing all mil units for ops beyond our borders? 

Many army units have become specialists in COIN and CT on our soil --- and while penetration and behind enemy lines stuff is still part of many SOS courses, we aren't projecting far enough. In essence, we are creating an amazing, heli-capable internal security force that, at max, goes a little beyond borders in contested territory. Is this enough?

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## blain2

PanzerKiel said:


> With regards to open identification of SSG.... Under Gen Mitha, they used to wear normal baloch regiment beret and shoulder titles..... But then... After him... In his own words.... The rot started to set in....
> 
> It started with wearing SSG wing.... SSG shoulder titles and beret.... Use of SSG's individuals on VIP protection duties, free fall and SSG's contingent parade on 23 March..... Air Marshals in 70s and 80s...SSG formation sign....
> And the remaining.... Social media allows everyone to show off.... Something in our national psyche..... Just like Wagah parade...


The rot started with Col S G Mehdi. While well intentioned, he was not an SSG qualified officer as such his approach to a non-conventional force was a conventional one. He applied the norms of regular infantry to the SSG. All the dog and pony show started with Col Mehdi's successor with all sorts of accoutrements being added to the uniform and the ones who wanted this were not even SSG qualified! The ones who had been through the thick and thin of SSG training had no desire to stand out. 
When one of my close relatives served in the SSG (one of the earliest batches), nobody on the outside could tell who was in the SSG and who wasn't. Had this stayed with just the maroon beret and the SSG wing, that too would have been okay but now with an entirely different uniform, it takes away from what the SSG was and what it was intended for.

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## blain2

R Wing said:


> Absolutely. Even special mission units like Zarrar had obvious identification signs and self-aggrandizing T-shirts, etc. (the infamous black THE ANTI-TERRORISTS one, for example).
> 
> What do you think about raising competent paramilitary spec ops forces for ALL internal tasks and refocusing all mil units for ops beyond our borders?
> 
> Many army units have become specialists in COIN and CT on our soil --- and while penetration and behind enemy lines stuff is still part of many SOS courses, we aren't projecting far enough. In essence, we are creating an amazing, heli-capable internal security force that, at max, goes a little beyond borders in contested territory. Is this enough?


The SSG has the capability and training to operate behind enemy lines. The issue is the return on such missions. SSG is far better utilized when employed across the LoC/IB to operate against conventional forces. While under-reported, in 1965, the companies that were deployed along the IB/LoC carried out some really interesting operations. Had the rest of the companies been employed in the same manner instead of being sent off on an ill-conceived para mission over Indian Punjab, they would have caused significant problems for Indian advance. Far more than what the regular infantry was able to achieve.

This is why operating very deep behind enemy lines isn't necessarily the best application of the SSG. While it makes for good story telling and plots for movies, much greater tactical value is in employment of these troops along our frontiers. Only if absolutely necessary then perhaps some operations at depth can be conducted.

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## Sifar zero

PanzerKiel said:


> A light commando
> 
> View attachment 780093


Is this his own ACOG or it's standard issue?


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## blain2

Sifar zero said:


> Is this his own ACOG or it's standard issue?


Nobody in Pakistan brings their own sights and installs on service rifles. That weapon, after training, firing, is going back into the unit "kote" and is not the property of individuals.

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## Maarkhoor

blain2 said:


> Nobody in Pakistan brings their own sights and installs on service rifles. That weapon, after training, firing, is going back into the unit "kote" and is not the property of individuals.


I used to have my personal side arm.......


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## R Wing

blain2 said:


> The SSG has the capability and training to operate behind enemy lines. The issue is the return on such missions. SSG is far better utilized when employed across the LoC/IB to operate against conventional forces. While under-reported, in 1965, the companies that were deployed along the IB/LoC carried out some really interesting operations. Had the rest of the companies been employed in the same manner instead of being sent off on an ill-conceived para mission over Indian Punjab, they would have caused significant problems for Indian advance. Far more than what the regular infantry was able to achieve.
> 
> This is why operating very deep behind enemy lines isn't necessarily the best application of the SSG. While it makes for good story telling and plots for movies, much greater tactical value is in employment of these troops along our frontiers. Only if absolutely necessary then perhaps some operations at depth can be conducted.



But a point of an army is not just to fight internal threats --- paramilitary forces should be sufficiently developed to do that. Army units should only be there for support in very critical cases. 

An army's primary fighting duty should always remain a.) defensive ops in case of an invasion and other forms of aggression and b.) offensive ops in enemy territory.


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## PanzerKiel

Sifar zero said:


> Is this his own ACOG or it's standard issue?





blain2 said:


> Nobody in Pakistan brings their own sights and installs on service rifles. That weapon, after training, firing, is going back into the unit "kote" and is not the property of individuals.


For the past decade now, we all can modify our weapons.... These sights are being issued as well as it is allowed to install own sights... Not a big deal nowadays....

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## Zarvan

PanzerKiel said:


> A light commando
> 
> View attachment 780093


Is that SOPMOD ?


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## Aryeih Leib

I don't know if it's the right thread but does pakistan have a dedicated training institute for high altitude warfare ,?

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## iLION12345_1

Zarvan said:


> Is that SOPMOD ?


SOPMOD isnt a rifle, it’s a bunch of accessories that make up multiple kits, I’m sure you’re aware. That rifle has some of the parts of it Yes. You can’t have all of the SOPMOD kit on a rifle at once anyways since what you’re using depends on mission profile (grenade launchers, thermal or normal scopes etc).

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## PanzerKiel

Aryeih Leib said:


> I don't know if it's the right thread but does pakistan have a dedicated training institute for high altitude warfare ,?


AHAWS Rattu.

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## Bratva

Source: Spy stories inside the secret world of the RAW and the ISI

Insider Attacks in Tarbela Ghazi and on ISI vehicles in September 2007

















Bomb in Pakistan Kills at Least 15 From Elite Unit (Published 2007)


A blast Thursday evening, apparently set off by a suicide bomber, tore through the dining hall of a military installation.




www.nytimes.com

























27 die as suicide bombers hit high security areas


RAWALPINDI/ISLAMABAD, Sept 4: Two suicide bombers struck two localities in the high-security zone in the garrison...



www.dawn.com





"

*The first blast took place at about 7.20am in a bus and it was so powerful that it destroyed the whole vehicle, killing and injuring most of the passengers.

Mohammad Arif, one of the injured, told Dawn that there were at least 60 people in the vehicle when its driver stopped to pick up three employees.

“As bus driver stopped the vehicle and some people stepped inside, a huge explosion occurred,” Asif said. Later, he said, he was told in a hospital that the bus was torn to pieces and bodies were scattered all over the place.









18 die in Rawalpindi suicide attacks


RAWALPINDI, Nov 24: Two suicide bombers struck in the city during the morning rush, targeting military personnel and...



www.dawn.com




*

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## R Wing

Bratva said:


> Source: Spy stories inside the secret world of the RAW and the ISI
> 
> Insider Attacks in Tarbela Ghazi and on ISI vehicles in September 2007
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 784856
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bomb in Pakistan Kills at Least 15 From Elite Unit (Published 2007)
> 
> 
> A blast Thursday evening, apparently set off by a suicide bomber, tore through the dining hall of a military installation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> View attachment 784857
> 
> 
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> 27 die as suicide bombers hit high security areas
> 
> 
> RAWALPINDI/ISLAMABAD, Sept 4: Two suicide bombers struck two localities in the high-security zone in the garrison...
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "
> 
> *The first blast took place at about 7.20am in a bus and it was so powerful that it destroyed the whole vehicle, killing and injuring most of the passengers.
> 
> Mohammad Arif, one of the injured, told Dawn that there were at least 60 people in the vehicle when its driver stopped to pick up three employees.
> 
> “As bus driver stopped the vehicle and some people stepped inside, a huge explosion occurred,” Asif said. Later, he said, he was told in a hospital that the bus was torn to pieces and bodies were scattered all over the place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 18 die in Rawalpindi suicide attacks
> 
> 
> RAWALPINDI, Nov 24: Two suicide bombers struck in the city during the morning rush, targeting military personnel and...
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



The Tarbela attack was by a milkman (multiple decades working with the SSG from what I recall) --- could be wrong. @PanzerKiel might now.

I like the gora system of even General Officers being treated as strangers when entering sensitive bases/premises, let alone a milkman. Painstaking security and checks every. single. time.

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## AMG_12

Bratva said:


> Source: Spy stories inside the secret world of the RAW and the ISI
> 
> Insider Attacks in Tarbela Ghazi and on ISI vehicles in September 2007
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 784856
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bomb in Pakistan Kills at Least 15 From Elite Unit (Published 2007)
> 
> 
> A blast Thursday evening, apparently set off by a suicide bomber, tore through the dining hall of a military installation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 784857
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 27 die as suicide bombers hit high security areas
> 
> 
> RAWALPINDI/ISLAMABAD, Sept 4: Two suicide bombers struck two localities in the high-security zone in the garrison...
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "
> 
> *The first blast took place at about 7.20am in a bus and it was so powerful that it destroyed the whole vehicle, killing and injuring most of the passengers.
> 
> Mohammad Arif, one of the injured, told Dawn that there were at least 60 people in the vehicle when its driver stopped to pick up three employees.
> 
> “As bus driver stopped the vehicle and some people stepped inside, a huge explosion occurred,” Asif said. Later, he said, he was told in a hospital that the bus was torn to pieces and bodies were scattered all over the place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 18 die in Rawalpindi suicide attacks
> 
> 
> RAWALPINDI, Nov 24: Two suicide bombers struck in the city during the morning rush, targeting military personnel and...
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


What book are the excerpts taken from?

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## Bratva

Cuirassier said:


> Coming back to this discussion - the Tarbela Mess bombing claimed the lives of 14 SSG troopers.
> 
> 13 commandos were martyred on the fateful day of 5 April 2013, including Captain Wasim of 3 Commando Bn, at Inzar Gul, Tirah. They were part of the elite Ebrahim Coy of Qiadat fame - the company commander and another captain 'S' were WIA (saw couple of pictures of him with that golden stripe too). All 13 were awarded TBt posthumously. It was a joint Lashkar-e-Islam/TTP ambush I believe. Riles me up whenever I remember Mangal Bagh Afridi is still alive.





PanzerKiel said:


> Waseem is my school class fellow.....excellent man. I was in the ops area as well once this incident occurred. It was not an ambush. The casualties were from Hamza Company. Waseem wasnt from this company but volunteered to go in the place of another Hamza Company officer (again, a close friend of mine) who was much junior to him.
> 
> I know Waseem since he was this much...
> View attachment 648698
> 
> ....till he was like this....
> View attachment 648697





PanzerKiel said:


> This SSG action was separate from 8 PR action. Wasim's group, composed of two combat teams fought their way to a feature, suffering light casualties ( i think couple of wounded). This feature was sort of a plateau at height. However, once these two combat teams (20 odd men) reached the top, heavy fire opened up on them from adjoining heights.....12.7 mm DshKs ringed them and poured heavy fire, coupled with RPGs and snipers. SSG guys fought back but since they were exposed and dominated all around, were picked off one by one. Waseem got an initial bullet wound and one of his buddy pulled him and made him sit with his back against a rocky boulder. His last radio call was that in which he stated that his ammo had finished and he was pulling out his Glock.
> 
> It was a Friday. I wont forget that day. This op started in the morning and by approx 1000-1100 hours, nothing was heard about these two combat teams. Another SSG company (Shaheen i think) was inducted but could not clear the site. Ultimately a whole SSG battalion went in and managed to fight to Waseem's location. It took a great time to recover the bodies since they were spread everywhere, every SSG guy had fought back individually.
> TTP / LLI bastards, after having eliminated the SSG teams, had then climbed on this feature and fired point bank into the bodies.
> 
> Sequel to Waseem's action was more horrible, but the other way around. What happened when more SSG troops arrived along with AH1s and artillery is entirely a different story.
> 
> Waseem's parents and my parents were looking for our potential brides during this time, we both were supposed to be married the same year in October. This action occurred on 5 April 2013.




Since both gentleman provided some of the gruesome details about Captain Waseem martydom and 8 Punjab Unit horrible ambush in which 51 soldiers got martyred . More detailed version has come to light and narrated by Ret LET.GEN KHALID RABBANI . Captain "S" as mentioned by Cuirassier was actually Captain Saad Rabbani who barely survived the ambush Son Of Retired Lt.Gen Khalid Rabbani who was Corps Commander XI Peshawar at the time of Tirah Valley 2013 Operation










AMG_12 said:


> What book are the excerpts taken from?





Source:









Spy Stories


From 9/11 to 26/11, Burhan Wani to Kulbhushan Jadhav – the India–Pakistan relationship told from the perspective of the R.A.W. and the I....



www.goodreads.com

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## blain2

R Wing said:


> The Tarbela attack was by a milkman (multiple decades working with the SSG from what I recall) --- could be wrong. @PanzerKiel might now.
> 
> I like the gora system of even General Officers being treated as strangers when entering sensitive bases/premises, let alone a milkman. Painstaking security and checks every. single. time.


That is what I understand too. The suicide bombing was done by a civilian and not a serving member of the SSG. These were the days when every Tom, Dick and Harry used to be allowed in the unit lines and assumed to be family members of those serving.


PanzerKiel said:


> For the past decade now, we all can modify our weapons.... These sights are being issued as well as it is allowed to install own sights... Not a big deal nowadays....


That is definitely a change. I know for a fact, no personal modifications used to be allowed in the past (actually nobody did it back in the day as access to such things was extremely limited and that too through proper military channels only). But my information is dated now.

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## blain2

R Wing said:


> But a point of an army is not just to fight internal threats --- paramilitary forces should be sufficiently developed to do that. Army units should only be there for support in very critical cases.
> 
> An army's primary fighting duty should always remain a.) defensive ops in case of an invasion and other forms of aggression and b.) offensive ops in enemy territory.


Along the LoC/IB is not "internal threats". I was referring to the employment of the SSG during a conventional conflict. If you want to employ SSG behind enemy lines, there has to be a way to support them. Otherwise you are sending them on a one way, suicidal mission which is an utter and shameful waste of highly trained, motivated resources.

The idea of "nafooz" only works when you can send your troops on a mission and keep them supported and then get them exfiltrated. In our environment, the highest chances of success are when our units operate against the other side along the IB/LoC and use the terrain to infiltrate, carry out their mission and then exfiltrate via ground. These would be shallow incursions to keep the other side off balance.

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## PanzerKiel



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## blain2

ghazi52 said:


> Ayub pins the Sitara-e-Jurat on the mother of Captain Muhammad Sadiq of the SS Group, who was killed in action at Jandiala, near Zafarwal, on 21ˢᵗ September 1965. a gunner officer, he had served at Kutch and in the Salahuddin Force, involved in Operation Gibraltar.
> 
> 
> View attachment 780466


Captain Sadiq was my father's roommate at the School of Signals @ Pindi and a dear friend. Later he served in the Ayub Company, SSG with my father.

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## TsAr

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 785287


is that a Colt?

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## R Wing

blain2 said:


> Along the LoC/IB is not "internal threats". I was referring to the employment of the SSG during a conventional conflict. If you want to employ SSG behind enemy lines, there has to be a way to support them. Otherwise you are sending them on a one way, suicidal mission which is an utter and shameful waste of highly trained, motivated resources.
> 
> The idea of "nafooz" only works when you can send your troops on a mission and keep them supported and then get them exfiltrated. In our environment, the highest chances of success are when our units operate against the other side along the IB/LoC and use the terrain to infiltrate, carry out their mission and then exfiltrate via ground. These would be shallow incursions to keep the other side off balance.



Ah, yes, of course --- agreed.


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## Bratva

AMG_12 said:


> What book are the excerpts taken from?





blain2 said:


> Along the LoC/IB is not "internal threats". I was referring to the employment of the SSG during a conventional conflict. If you want to employ SSG behind enemy lines, there has to be a way to support them. Otherwise you are sending them on a one way, suicidal mission which is an utter and shameful waste of highly trained, motivated resources.
> 
> The idea of "nafooz" only works when you can send your troops on a mission and keep them supported and then get them exfiltrated. In our environment, the highest chances of success are when our units operate against the other side along the IB/LoC and use the terrain to infiltrate, carry out their mission and then exfiltrate via ground. These would be shallow incursions to keep the other side off balance.



As per the book. That Pashtoon Operator sister was killed in Lal Masjid Operation. Hence he took revenge from Zarrar Unit. 

Also the book further claimed, Zarrar Unit had defections, They joined 313 Illays kashmiri outfit and planned attacks against Pakistan Army. Major Haroon and Major Pasha Defected from Army were the lead who were planning and giving sensitive movement info that enabled the hit teams to do suicide attacks and ambushes. Both Major Haroon and PASHA were caught and are incarcerated in hyderabad jail right now

These defectors were the major reason we saw large scale attacks against Army installations in 2007-2009 timeframe. Then Again 2011-2013 timeframe when major airbases were hit. Plus the hijacking attempt of Pakistan Navy ship, These Hizb ul Tahrir type guys who were ex military were actively trying to recruit collaborators who could provide inside info and in turn that info were then used for attacking the installatuions.

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## AMG_12

Bratva said:


> As per the book. That Pashtoon Operator sister was killed in Lal Masjid Operation. Hence he took revenge from Zarrar Unit.
> 
> Also the book further claimed, Zarrar Unit had defections, They joined 313 Illays kashmiri outfit and planned attacks against Pakistan Army. Major Haroon and Major Pasha Defected from Army were the lead who were planning and giving sensitive movement info that enabled the hit teams to do suicide attacks and ambushes. Both Major Haroon and PASHA were caught and are incarcerated in hyderabad jail right now
> 
> These defectors were the major reason we saw large scale attacks against Army installations in 2007-2009 timeframe. Then Again 2011-2013 timeframe when major airbases were hit. Plus the hijacking attempt of Pakistan Navy ship, These Hizb ul Tahrir type guys who were ex military were actively trying to recruit collaborators who could provide inside info and in turn that info were then used for attacking the installatuions.


I also heard something similar long time ago but chose not to believe it.

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## PakCan

Is there a reason why information about previous operations are not published. If there is anything confidential that can be withheld but I feel like information still leaks out so why not control the narrative and publish it.

i Just read about the Tirrah operation that was shared by @Bratva . Can someone open a thread and share all the available information about the operations that were conducted. Make it read only thread?

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## Jaansher



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## Proud 2 Be a Pakistani

*Pak-Qatar-Turk Special Forces Exercise in Ankara 2021*


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## ghazi52



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## DESERT FIGHTER

*Druzhba-VI

























*

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## ghazi52

General Pervaiz Musharraf checking his pistol at Kargil,.
Date: 1999

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## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454692209899491328

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

SSG officers at Cherat, 1962.






Sitting L, ...CPT Saeed Durrani, a Sword of Honour recipient who was taken POW at Adampur. 
Standing R, ...CPT Sadiq, KIA in '65; awarded the SJ.
Sitting R,... CPT Kazim Kamal, SJ recipient who was killed by mutineers of the 2ⁿᵈ East Bengal, in March '71.

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## PanzerKiel

ghazi52 said:


> SSG officers at Cherat, 1962.
> 
> View attachment 790031
> 
> 
> Sitting L, ...CPT Saeed Durrani, a Sword of Honour recipient who was taken POW at Adampur. Standing R, ...CPT Sadiq, KIA in '65; awarded the SJ.
> Sitting R,... CPT Kazim Kamal, SJ recipient who was killed by mutineers of the 2ⁿᵈ East Bengal, in March '71.


Standing, second from right, Capt Raifiuddin, later Brig and group commander SSG in late 70s.

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## SSGOPERATOR

ghazi52 said:


> SSG officers at Cherat, 1962.
> 
> View attachment 790031
> 
> 
> Sitting L, ...CPT Saeed Durrani, a Sword of Honour recipient who was taken POW at Adampur. Standing R, ...CPT Sadiq, KIA in '65; awarded the SJ.
> Sitting R,... CPT Kazim Kamal, SJ recipient who was killed by mutineers of the 2ⁿᵈ East Bengal, in March '71.


Assalam o Alaikum
The berets, do you have a clear bigger pic of them.


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## ghazi52

1ˢᵗ Commando

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## ghazi52

*
September 12th, 1965
Zafarwal Sector*

These were the late hours of night when the Major, the Commander of A Company received the information about the presence of enemy in his area. The informant was a civillian who had just seen a large body of Indian soldiers, resting in a Nullah. Having such an enemy strength meant nothing but Indian raid on the Pakistani positions. It was 5th Gorkha Battalion of Indian Army.

Time was crucial and having any delay could result fatal, so Major decided to take a meaningful action. Taking a handful of his SSG comrades and a number of jeeps fitted with appropriate weapons, he decided to deliver a blow to the enemy.

Enemy company had no idea that what surprise they are going to get. Before anyone could even think of it, Major and his men reached the enemy Position and laid heavy fire. Having no idea about the situation, enemy couldn't respond and had huge casualties. They had no chance but to retaliate, so they started with drawing. Within no time, nothing was left in the nullah but the weapons and supplies of the enemy which they had to leave in order to run faster.

This gallant action told the enemy that Zafarwal is a hard nut to crack. Major was awarded Sitara e Jurrat for his action. Later he retired as a four star General.

Today the world knows him as General Shamim Alam Khan, the former CJCSC of Pakistan Army.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum
A bit old but here you go:








Real Life Cold Blooded Perk: Indians Record Pakistan Using Thermal Camo In Raid


A video narrated by an Indian soldiers shows thermal security footage from a Pakistani raid against an Indian checkpoint in which the Pakistani soldier is wearing some sort of thermal camouflage that completely hides his heat signature. Cold Blooded.




funker530.com




@Reichmarshal @PanzerKiel @Metal 0-1 @bhola record 
JazakAllah

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## Reichmarshal

i can post some videos here but then again I would have to kill u all

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## Ahmet Pasha

Reichmarshal said:


> i can post some videos here but then again I would have to kill u all


Let's get this over with then.

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## tyaseen23

Guys can anyone help me, I need to know whether the SSC (admin and logistics Specifically) can volunteer for SSW in PAF. 
Prompt reply would be appreciated.


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## bananarepublic

Reichmarshal said:


> i can post some videos here but then again I would have to kill u all


WoW VeRy DaNgErOuS mAn!!


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## ghazi52

25th October, 2016






5th Shahadat Anniversary of Capt Rooh Ullah Marwat.
May May great him the highest place in Jannah. Ameen,

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## ghazi52

Special Service Group Pakistan Air Force

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## ghazi52

Captain ( Now Major ) Abid Zaman ( Tamgh-E-Basalat ) from Sawabi led the hostage rescue operation in APS Peshawar on 16 Dec 2014 and his Al-Zarrar ATU ( Anti Terrorist Unit ) killed all the Terrorists in the same Operation. Hero

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## ghazi52



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## kursed



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## blain2

PanzerKiel said:


> Standing, second from right, Capt Raifiuddin, later Brig and group commander SSG in late 70s.


Eventually Maj Gen Rafiuddin!


SSGOPERATOR said:


> Assalam o Alaikum
> The berets, do you have a clear bigger pic of them.


I don't but in those days, those were standard Baloch Regt berets. The unit itself was designated 19th Baloch.

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## ghazi52

Pakistan Navy Special Service Group SSG(N) participated in bilateral Special Operations Forces (SOF) Exercise ‘Ayylidiz 2021’ with Turkish Su Altı Taarruz (SAT) at Istanbul, Turkey. Both navies are regularly conducting this bilateral Exercise since 1996 and exercise is 13th of the series.

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## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1472846179033620481

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## blain2

Falcon26 said:


> Why is it Pakistani special Forces rarely wear gloves or modern helmets worn by other elite units? Is it due to cost?


They will eventually upgrade the helmets. Keep in mind that the military procurement moves at its own pace. They are not looking at the looks of things. If the existing helmets serve their purpose, they will go through the routine lifecycle. As new helmets are ordered, you will see changes.

On the gloves, it is not because of cost. In Pakistan, local industry can actually deliver on the military requirement for gloves. I think the issue is that gloves are not worn because the training is usually done without them. It is a matter of getting used to things.

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## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1480149497128833026

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

In the summer of '1999, the OC of the then Zarrar Company, Major Haroon Islam volunteered for deployment during Operation Koh-e-Paima, alongwith a sniper detachment of the Company - this was despite Zarrar's role being CT-oriented..






that eight years on, a sniper took his life during Operation Sunrise. a skydiver, mountaineer and whatnot.







May The Almighty bless him among the exalted martyrs.

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## Khan_patriot

Sort answer yes, long answer ask your chain of command if you are already in the AF, otherwise join the AF before worrying about it.


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## PanzerKiel



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## ghazi52



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## Amaa'n

Bratva said:


> Also the book further claimed, Zarrar Unit had defections, They joined 313 Illays kashmiri outfit and planned attacks against Pakistan Army. Major Haroon and Major Pasha Defected from Army were the lead who were planning and giving sensitive movement info that enabled the hit teams to do suicide attacks and ambushes. Both Major Haroon and PASHA were caught and are incarcerated in hyderabad jail right now


thats taken from Amir Shehzad's book "Inside the AQ" while he was interviewing different militant leaders

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## bhola record

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 808019
> View attachment 808023
> View attachment 808024
> View attachment 808025


imagine doing this
so awesome,so heroic.

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

COAS General Qamar Javed Bajwa, visited Turbat and spent complete day with troops.
COAS given a comprehensive brief at HQ FC Balochistan (South) on prevailing security situation, Pak-Iran Border Fencing & measures taken to counter hostile efforts…


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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## PanzerKiel



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## Riz

ghazi52 said:


> In the summer of '1999, the OC of the then Zarrar Company, Major Haroon Islam volunteered for deployment during Operation Koh-e-Paima, alongwith a sniper detachment of the Company - this was despite Zarrar's role being CT-oriented..
> 
> View attachment 807916
> 
> 
> that eight years on, a sniper took his life during Operation Sunrise. a skydiver, mountaineer and whatnot.
> 
> 
> View attachment 807917
> 
> 
> May The Almighty bless him among the exalted martyrs.

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## PanzerKiel

OC Zarrar in early 90s.

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## TsAr

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 815892
> View attachment 815894
> 
> 
> OC Zarrar in early 90s.
> View attachment 815895
> View attachment 815896
> View attachment 815897
> View attachment 815898


Top most pic is that Ameer Faisal Alvi

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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## Metal 0-1

Last picture is totally of a SSG guy.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Metal 0-1 said:


> Last picture is totally of a SSG guy.


Not sure if that ISPR logo is bs

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## Bratva

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 815892
> View attachment 815894
> 
> 
> OC Zarrar in early 90s.
> View attachment 815895
> View attachment 815896
> View attachment 815897
> View attachment 815898




What happened with Major Imam Baqir later in his carrier? Did He reach Major General rank? 80's and 90's SSG commando had a lean,mean and tough vibe to them when I see their pics. The mean warrior look in their eyes especially

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## Metal 0-1

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Not sure if that ISPR logo is bs


Dude wow, you believe some random editted video. No that's not SSG guy. Think for yourself does ssg wears multicam also that's a ufpro uniform, pvs-31s and ATAK system which is biggest indicator.


Also you made me watch sone guy edit who have added us navy hornets in his videos.

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## bananarepublic

Metal 0-1 said:


> Dude wow, you believe some random editted video. No that's not SSG guy. Think for yourself does ssg wears multicam also that's a ufpro uniform, pvs-31s and ATAK system which is biggest indicator.
> 
> 
> Also you made me watch sone guy edit who have added us navy hornets in his videos.


Let a man dream
@Trailer23 ka dil todh do gai.


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## Trailer23

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Not sure if that ISPR logo is bs


*1.*





*I don't use either*​*2.*






*I use this one*​


Metal 0-1 said:


> Also you made me watch sone guy edit who have added us navy hornets in his videos.


I take it you're referring to a Eid Video I did back in 2019.




​Tell me something... What about *Directorate General Public Relations (Pakistan Air Force)* using a *F-15 Strike Eagle* in an Official Video?

What, you don't believe me...?!!

Here is a screenshot followed the actual video.






Oh don't worry, you need not scan for the clip. I took the liberty of time stamping it for you. Just click: *Play*





​But its okay. _*To err is human*_, but two mistakes in one video are unacceptable too👇.




​Maybe in the future you can share some videos on the Pakistan Armed Forces by amateurs to show me how its really done.






bananarepublic said:


> Let a man dream
> @Trailer23 ka dil todh do gai.


_"Dil todh gaya"_ Seriously?!!

Bro, I have a Certificate from ISPR itself on my wall for my contributions. I have PAF Pilots/Personnel messaging me when my next video is coming out. My videos are played at PAF events, so I assure you - i'm good.

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## Metal 0-1

Trailer23 said:


> *1.*
> View attachment 816881
> 
> 
> *I don't use either*​*2.*
> 
> View attachment 816882
> 
> 
> *I use this one*​
> 
> I take it you're referring to a Eid Video I did back in 2019.
> 
> View attachment 816884
> ​Tell me something... What about *Directorate General Public Relations (Pakistan Air Force)* using a *F-15 Strike Eagle* in an Official Video?
> 
> What, you don't believe me...?!!
> 
> Here is a screenshot followed the actual video.
> 
> View attachment 816885
> 
> 
> Oh don't worry, you need not scan for the clip. I took the liberty of time stamping it for you. Just click: *Play*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​But its okay. _*To err is human*_, but two mistakes in one video are unacceptable too👇.
> 
> View attachment 816887
> ​Maybe in the future you can share some videos on the Pakistan Armed Forces by amateurs to show me how its really done.
> 
> View attachment 816890​
> _"Dil todh gaya"_ Seriously?!!
> 
> Bro, I have a Certificate from ISPR itself on my wall for my contributions. I have PAF Pilots/Personnel messaging me when my next video is coming out. My videos are played at PAF events, so I assure you - i'm good.


Okay and


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## WinterFangs

Does pakistans special forces keep their identity hidden? From pictures I’ve seen I almost never see anyone wearing balaclavas or any form of face covering unlike other countries where it’s mandatory to keep your face hidden. Is this something to consider for the future or does Pakistan not plan to implement this?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Metal 0-1 said:


> Last picture is totally of a SSG guy.


Im not SSG but my younger brother graduated an year back. Although I have much cooler pics I dont post them. Infact I hardly post here anymore. That said small mistakes do happen. No need to get hissy fits bro.
Apart from me everybody in my family serves in the mil. My father and 2 brothers. I unfortunately didnt join, did law instead.

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## PanzerKiel



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## Yellow13

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 817096
> View attachment 817097
> View attachment 817100
> 
> 
> View attachment 817101
> View attachment 817102
> View attachment 817103
> View attachment 817104


@PanzerKiel Could you recommend any good book about SSG? Preferably in English. Or any page that has stories post 2001?

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## Trailer23

Metal 0-1 said:


> Okay and


With a response like that, the only thing left to say is - _'nuff said_.


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## Great Janjua

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 816108
> View attachment 816109
> View attachment 816110
> View attachment 816111


Which force uses that multicam British style camo?. Or was it a one-time thing?

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## PanzerKiel



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## ghazi52

Captain Haider Abbas has embraced Shahadat in an IBO against terrorists in Sibi, Balochistan.

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## blain2

WinterFangs said:


> Does pakistans special forces keep their identity hidden? From pictures I’ve seen I almost never see anyone wearing balaclavas or any form of face covering unlike other countries where it’s mandatory to keep your face hidden. Is this something to consider for the future or does Pakistan not plan to implement this?


Its not needed any more unless security of the personnel is in question. The Pakistani special forces are quite large now and it makes no practical sense to keep their faces hidden unless they are on missions for which they themselves ensure they are not visible.

In all likelihood, on internal security missions, there could be a need but in general, troops are not allowed to post photos of themselves when deployed so a lot of the operational security aspects are addressed.

There are places where such measures maybe needed as in Mexico where the drug mafias go after the troops and their families. Fortunately for us, this is not the case.



ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 817296
> 
> 
> 
> Captain Haider Abbas has embraced Shahadat in an IBO against terrorists in Sibi, Balochistan.
> 
> 
> View attachment 817299


Very unfortunate loss. He was from Karachi. To God we belong and to God we return.

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## Amaa'n

KPT Port Security holds joint exercise with SSU, Marines, And SSG N amid evolving security challenges and security threats.Focus of the drill was CT response and hostage rescue

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## blain2

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Im not SSG but my younger brother graduated an year back. Although I have much cooler pics I dont post them. Infact I hardly post here anymore. That said small mistakes do happen. No need to get hissy fits bro.
> Apart from me everybody in my family serves in the mil. My father and 2 brothers. I unfortunately didnt join, did law instead.


Whatever you post, post carefully please. Not worth putting anyone's career in jeopardy. I have known and seen military careers get ruined for minor carelessness.

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## ghazi52

The Namaz-e-Janaza of, Captain Haider Abbas (SSG), was held today in Karachi with full military honours,

“They Lived together….They fought together and today they carried their comrade Together”

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## Metal 0-1

Nice holster setup you got there.


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## Great Janjua

Metal 0-1 said:


> Nice holster setup you got there.
> View attachment 817430


Its 2022 and SSGN still stuck in 2004

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## Amaa'n

Metal 0-1 said:


> Nice holster setup you got there.
> View attachment 817430





Great Janjua said:


> Its 2022 and SSGN still stuck in 2004


thats Blackhawk Serpa Holster ....... we use basic SBRs and are not into bells and whistles unlike western counterparts

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## Great Janjua

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> thats Blackhawk Serpa Holster ....... we use basic SBRs and are not into bells and whistles unlike western counterparts


Am talking about their overall gear from top to bottom it takes me back to WOT days. Relics from the past.

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## Metal 0-1

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> thats Blackhawk Serpa Holster ....... we use basic SBRs and are not into bells and whistles unlike western counterparts


If you look at other pictures SSG-N uses safaraliland als holsters which are standard in western world.


SSG used to have old school safaraliland sls holsters which are way better. I don't why they switched to these serpa holsters which are very unsafe and their locking system prone to failure.


On the belt yes couple of SSG-N guys were spotted with battle belt setup.

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## Zarrar Alvi

Bratva said:


> As per the book. That Pashtoon Operator sister was killed in Lal Masjid Operation. Hence he took revenge from Zarrar Unit.
> 
> Also the book further claimed, Zarrar Unit had defections, They joined 313 Illays kashmiri outfit and planned attacks against Pakistan Army. Major Haroon and Major Pasha Defected from Army were the lead who were planning and giving sensitive movement info that enabled the hit teams to do suicide attacks and ambushes. Both Major Haroon and PASHA were caught and are incarcerated in hyderabad jail right now
> 
> These defectors were the major reason we saw large scale attacks against Army installations in 2007-2009 timeframe. Then Again 2011-2013 timeframe when major airbases were hit. Plus the hijacking attempt of Pakistan Navy ship, These Hizb ul Tahrir type guys who were ex military were actively trying to recruit collaborators who could provide inside info and in turn that info were then used for attacking the installatuions.


not an operator he was a Cook who had links with the extremists .



ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 788949
> 
> 
> 
> General Pervaiz Musharraf checking his pistol at Kargil,.
> Date: 1999


Indian captain's side arm brought to the base by the Pak Raiders.


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## Zarrar Alvi

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Exactly. Actually, I used to think that SSG is old school, but now I think *All By the Grace of Allah,* not even the so-called Modern SOF will dare to challenge them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to this podcast till 1:27:52


When I said the same thing how American Navy seals chickened out from a training exercise with Zarrar ATU just because Jarri were using the live ammo during the scenario exercise . Many of the Hollywood fanboys were mocking me .

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## Metal 0-1

whaaaaat


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## ghazi52

Shaheed Amjad Razzaq LCDT, of the Navy's SSG .....







...

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## Sinnerman108

Riz said:


>



What a great officer, a humble gentleman 
that we lost to freaking molvis !


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## ghazi52

....
Captain Syed Haider Abbas: The life of a martyr​Shazia Hasan... DAWN
March 1, 2022 







The parents of Capt Syed Haider Abbas proudly display the personal effects of their martyred son. —White Star

KARACHI: For a moment you are taken aback when meeting the calm and collected couple. It has only been a little over a week since they lost their eldest son — Captain Syed Haider Abbas who embraced martyrdom while he was in hot pursuit of terrorists in a hideout near District Kohlu in Balochistan on Feb 2022.

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## TsAr

Metal 0-1 said:


> Nice holster setup you got there.
> View attachment 817430


what kind of grip is that?



Metal 0-1 said:


> If you look at other pictures SSG-N uses safaraliland als holsters which are standard in western world.
> 
> 
> SSG used to have old school safaraliland sls holsters which are way better. I don't why they switched to these serpa holsters which are very unsafe and their locking system prone to failure.
> 
> 
> On the belt yes couple of SSG-N guys were spotted with battle belt setup.


Safarliland are shitty holsters, one should only go for quality kydex holsters.


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## Metal 0-1

TsAr said:


> Safarliland are shitty holsters, one should only go for quality kydex holsters


Kydex holsters have time and place, they don't have active retention



TsAr said:


> what kind of grip is that?


I don't know man, don't know the specific name for it.


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## TsAr

Metal 0-1 said:


> Kydex holsters have time and place, they don't have active retention
> 
> 
> I don't know man, don't know the specific name for it.


Kydex holsters are the best bet at this time until something better comes up, I have used these safirland as well as Kydex holster so can tell my personal experience. There is no issue of retention in Kydex.
Whatever grip that is, its shitty to be honest.

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## Metal 0-1

TsAr said:


> Kydex holsters are the best bet at this time until something better comes up, I have used these safirland as well as Kydex holster so can tell my personal experience. There is no issue of retention in Kydex.


one person disliking doesn't mean they are not good, Lot of LEA, SF and SOF using safariland for years and as standard issueed.



TsAr said:


> Whatever grip that is, its shitty to be honest.


agreed


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## TsAr

Metal 0-1 said:


> one person liking doesn't mean they are not good, Lot of LEA, SF and SOF using safariland for years and as standard issueed.
> 
> 
> agreed


Bhai free ka maal sab ko pasand hota ha, there is a reason that Phlyster and Tier 1 are expensive and considered to be best in USA.

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## ghazi52

.
Images from ongoing Pak-Turk military excises "Jinnah-2022" 
Special Forces from both states are participating in these exercises.

















.






....

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## Madni Bappa

ghazi52 said:


> .
> Images from ongoing Pak-Turk military excises "Jinnah-2022"
> Special Forces from both states are participating in these exercises.
> 
> View attachment 822708
> 
> 
> View attachment 822709
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 822710
> 
> .
> 
> View attachment 822712


Looks like it's being held in Turkey?


ghazi52 said:


> ....

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## ghazi52

.
More pictures







.




.





.





......

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## SSGOPERATOR



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## ghazi52

Swat Operation 2009...


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## ghazi52

.,.,





;';';

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## PanzerKiel



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## ghazi52

l li 

*Pakistan, Azerbaijan and Turkey*.....................





i i i l

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## SSGOPERATOR

Assalam o Alaikum

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## Great Janjua

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 816110


Since when did we adopt the British Multicam.


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## ghazi52

Pakistan Day Parade 2022....





....

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## ghazi52

Parade 2022.....






.

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## ghazi52

,.






Turkish army soldiers march during the Pakistan Day parade. — AFP
,.,

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## ghazi52

.,
Turkey Pakistan






Joint Commando and Special Forces Jinnah 2022 exercises held at Mountain Training School Aghdeer. Forces received training on “ Combat Exercises in Residential Areas” and “Helicopter Landing and Para Shooting in Air Strike Operation”..........




















.,.,

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## ghazi52

,;
Special Service Group (SSG), Nisar Ahmad..
The Nation Salutes your ultimate Sacrifice for the Motherland...






.';.-

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## ghazi52

,.,.,.,.,





.,.,.,..,.,


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## Amaa'n

JTAC / CCTs??

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## PanzerKiel

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> View attachment 834497
> 
> View attachment 834498
> 
> 
> 
> JTAC / CCTs??


Yep, PA equivalent are ATCs who direct the action of combat aircraft engaged in close air support and other offensive air operations from a forward position. PA Aviation has ABCs (Air Battle Captains) as well.

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## farooqbhai007

PanzerKiel said:


> Yep, PA equivalent are ATCs who direct the action of combat aircraft engaged in close air support and other offensive air operations from a forward position. PA Aviation has ABCs (Air Battle Captains) as well.


I have noticed that when PA Helos land at helipads at non-mil areas , there is a radio operator on the ground present with a large backpack radio who communicates with helo. What do you call that operator as.

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## PanzerKiel

farooqbhai007 said:


> I have noticed that when PA Helos land at helipads at non-mil areas , there is a radio operator on the ground present with a large backpack radio who communicates with helo. What do you call that operator as.


FAC... FORWARD AIR CONTROLLER.
@Foxtrot Alpha

They all are trained at TASC, Karachi.

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## PanzerKiel



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## ghazi52

Once upon a time... a amazing commander...

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## ghazi52

.,
April 18, Captain Junaid Ayaz Khan of the SS Group's 6 Commando Bn, who was part of a 4-man reconnaissance team, was taken captive by the Taliban in Swat during the 'Nizam-e-Adal' times.
In May, anticipating execution, they made a last-ditch escape attempt.
There shouldn't be any doubt that they would have made a last ditch valiant attempt to avoid execution, but ultimately were outnumbered & embraced martyrdom... Prayers & Respect !
Posthumous... Tamgha-e-Basalat.





.,

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## ghazi52

.,.,
Paratroopers from Pakistani Special Forces Jumping from Pakistan Air Force C130 Aircraft.






,

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## ghazi52

.,.,.,

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## ghazi52

././.

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## ghazi52

.,.,.,

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## ghazi52

On September 24, 1987, while leading the reserve team of the SS Group's Ebrahim Company into assault at the Rana/Ashok Post, at Bilafond La, Captain Iqbal Khan makes the ultimate sacrifice as he engages the enemy bunkers with an RPG-7. Posthumously awarded the Hilal-e-Jurat.








Iqbal had been suffering from abdominal pain while the operation was underway, and despite orders to stay at base, he volunteered to reinforce the assault teams pinned down around Rana and Akbar, the Indian posts that dominated the Bilafond La. his body was found a year later.


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## ghazi52

.,.,
SS Group's Ebrahim Company...

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## ghazi52

,.,.,.,
Captain Iqbal Khan..

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## ghazi52

.,.,
A Pakistan Navy Elite's unit (SSGN) soldier Embraced Shahadat in line of duty, in a road accident. May 24, 2022..

.

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## ghazi52

,.,.,.,


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## ghazi52

,.,.,.
"The Prince of Skies "






29th May martyrdom day of Brigadier Tariq Mehmood Shaheed of SSG Pakistan Army
Brigadier Tariq Mehmood Shaheed, most popularly known as Brigadier TM and now TM Shaheed, (8 Oct 1938 - 29 May 1989), SJ (Bar), SBt, SI(M) was a legendary soldier and lethal weapon of Pakistan Army. He was serving as the Commandant of Special Services Group, when died in an accident in 1989, due to malfunctioning of his parachute, during a free fall display at Rahwali, near Gujranwala. 

TM was one of the most decorated Army officers who saw SSG in two wars and various special operations. He played a father like role in Special Services Group and has left a deep legacy, even after his death


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## ghazi52

TM The Great....

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## ghazi52

.,.,.,
Chief of Naval Staff (CNS), Admiral Muhammad Amjad Khan Niazi, giving awards in Karachi....

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## ghazi52

SSW

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## ghazi52

,.,.,

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## Great Janjua

ghazi52 said:


> ,.,.,
> View attachment 853713


The soldiers general Pervez Musharraf!!!!


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## ghazi52

,.,.,.

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## PanzerKiel



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## White privilege

ghazi52 said:


> SSW
> 
> View attachment 853172


Why do SSW use these _bullup rifles, _I haven't seen other Pakistani Spec ops. use these as standard...


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## PanzerKiel

White privilege said:


> Why do SSW use these _bullup rifles, _I haven't seen other Pakistani Spec ops. use these as standard...



The primary benefit of a bullpup weapon is that the weapon's overall length can be significantly decreased without reducing the barrel length. This allows a bullpup weapon to be more easily maneuvered and concealed than a conventional weapon with a similar barrel length, especially in tight spaces.
In some designs, the shorter length of stock reduces the weight compared to a conventional rifle with the same action.
The center of mass of a bullpup weapon is more posterior, thus closer to the shooter's core. This means less torque when moved around, making the handling kinematically more comfortable, especially when the shooter is running.
Due to the shorter distance between the action and the butt plate, the recoil impulse is transmitted more directly into the shooter's shoulder, with less leverage to create muzzle rise.

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## White privilege

PanzerKiel said:


> The primary benefit of a bullpup weapon is that the weapon's overall length can be significantly decreased without reducing the barrel length. This allows a bullpup weapon to be more easily maneuvered and concealed than a conventional weapon with a similar barrel length, especially in tight spaces.
> In some designs, the shorter length of stock reduces the weight compared to a conventional rifle with the same action.
> The center of mass of a bullpup weapon is more posterior, thus closer to the shooter's core. This means less torque when moved around, making the handling kinematically more comfortable, especially when the shooter is running.
> Due to the shorter distance between the action and the butt plate, the recoil impulse is transmitted more directly into the shooter's shoulder, with less leverage to create muzzle rise.


Why do the likes of Zarrar ATU not use these more often?? Room clearance and hostage rescue also merit lesser weight, more accurate weapon..

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## PanzerKiel

White privilege said:


> Why do the likes of Zarrar ATU not use these more often?? Room clearance and hostage rescue also merit lesser weight, more accurate weapon..


Bull-pups are generally not known to be user friendly. Moreover, you waste critical time while re-loading a new mag in a bull pup weapon due to the awkward positioning of the fore-arm. SSW otherwise doesnt use bull-pup in CQB.

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## ghazi52

.,.,.,

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537499920025931777


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## PanzerKiel



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## White privilege

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 855405
> 
> View attachment 855406
> View attachment 855407
> View attachment 855409


Are there any pictures of _ yours_ available among the thousands of army pictures available on internet?? 😁😄

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## ghazi52

.,.,..,


کیپٹـن محمد اقبال شہید ہلالِ جرآت 1998ءکا وصیت نامہ
سامان جو میں نـےبٹالین کو واپس لوٹانا ہے سبز پیک،ہائی نیک جرسی
لنگر کا جتنا بل بنا هـے وہ ہرحال میں ادا کیا جائ
میس کا بل جتنا بهی بنتا هے وہ ہر حالت میں ادا کرو
دهوبی کا بل ادا کیا جائے​Will of Captain Muhammad Iqbal Shaheed Hilal-e-Jiraat 1998 ....

1) Goods to be returned to the Navy Battalion in Green Pack, High Neck Jersey .
2) The bill of lungar should be paid in any case .
3) Mess bill, Pay what ever amount in any case .
4) Dhobi's bill should be paid.

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## ghazi52

SSW

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## SSGOPERATOR

PanzerKiel said:


> Yep, PA equivalent are ATCs who direct the action of combat aircraft engaged in close air support and other offensive air operations from a forward position. PA Aviation has ABCs (Air Battle Captains) as well.


What does ATC stand for?


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## PanzerKiel

SSGOPERATOR said:


> What does ATC stand for?


Air Traffic Controller.

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## SSGOPERATOR

PanzerKiel said:


> Air Traffic Controller.


Equivalent to JTAC/ CCT?

And what's the difference between ATC(Air Attack Controller), ABC(Air Battle Captain), and FAC(Forward Air Controller)?


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## PanzerKiel

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Equivalent to JTAC/ CCT?
> 
> And what's the difference between ATC(Air Attack Controller), ABC(Air Battle Captain), and FAC(Forward Air Controller)?


ABC is a term related to rotary aviation, FAC guys are usually upfront, mainly for close air support missions.



PanzerKiel said:


> ABC is a term related to rotary aviation, FAC guys are usually upfront, mainly for close air support missions.


Often, artillery, helicopters, and aircraft are attacking the same target or targets close together. There has to be a traffic director, and in a big change to command and control arrangements, TAC has agreed that the traffic director during Joint Air Attack Team (JAAT) operations will be the Army pilot in the scout helicopter. He is called the Air Battle Captain. The Air Force FAC controls the fighters, but whenever there are fighters and choppers involved together, the Air Battle Captain has the lead. He cannot dictate fighter tactics, but he can direct fighters or choppers to attack different targets or to sequence attacks.

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## SSGOPERATOR

@PanzerKiel @Reichmarshal 
Assalam o Alaikum
How long is Light Commando's course for soldiers and officers? And what's its official name?

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## RescueRanger

ghazi52 said:


> Once upon a time... a amazing commander...
> 
> View attachment 835132


A real soldiers soldier.

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## ghazi52

.,.,


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## blain2

SSGOPERATOR said:


> @PanzerKiel @Reichmarshal
> Assalam o Alaikum
> How long is Light Commando's course for soldiers and officers? And what's its official name?


Good questions and I honestly don't have the details. I believe this has been a train-the-trainer concept initially led by the SSG and now perhaps handled by the LCBs themselves for the new manpower they induct from the RTCs. My understanding is that all of the Infantry regiments of the Pakistan Army I.e. PR, Baloch, FF, Sind, AK, and NLI have an LCB each.

A good article by Lt Col Sohail Bajwa on how his LCB and others have been employed to assist in cases of terrorist attacks.

Alert and Firm​
An eyewitness account of the terrorist attack at Khalid Aviation Base, Quetta and PAF Base Samungli on night 14/15 August 2014
It was an evening as usual in Quetta as I was retiring at my residence and was enjoying the programmes of Independence Day on TV. It was around 2135 hours that I received a call from HQ Southern Command (HQ SC) that I needed to report immediately at Khalid Aviation Base (KAB) Quetta in relation with a terrorist activity.

Being a Commanding Officer (CO) of Light Commando Battalion, I immediately passed instructions to my men and moved to the location of the incident. In the meanwhile I was informed that some intrusion by the terrorists had taken place both at PAF Base Samungli and KAB. The CO of a Punjab regiment, Lt Col Ahmed was also passed similar instructions who also immediately moved to KAB.

Upon reaching KAB and taking control of my area of responsibility, I came to know that the terrorists were spotted by few civilians while they were attempting to cut the outer fence of the base and making their way in. The locals residing nearby KAB, displayed responsibility and immediately passed this information to the authorities concerned. The information was conforming to earlier threats to KAB and Samungli base thus the entire security apparatus in the cantonment as well as Samungli base came to red alert.

I was told to cordon off the base from south, checking suspicious movement and stop any spillover of the terrorists towards the Cantonment. Meanwhile the General Officer Commanding (GOC) Maj Gen Aftab, Brigadier Rohail and Brigadier Aziz ul Hassan Usmani had been carrying the reconnaissance of entire base periphery. At the same time, the QRF of my unit was put on 15 minutes notice possibly for PAF Base Samungli.

In the meanwhile, troops from FF regiment were also assigned to carry out search from the intrusion site. As soon the troops led by Lt Col Waseem Iqbal and Captain Yasir approached the middle part of the fence, they were fired upon fiercely. The fire was so intense that it had hit Brigadier Usmani's vehicle, bursting its tyre, and a bullet also passed through the jeep of Maj Gen Aftab. It is important to mention about the valour of the Base Commander's driver who changed the burst tyre in minimum time amidst heavy exchange of fire and successfully brought the commander back to base.

This fire caused multiple bullet injuries to troops of FF regiment including Captain Yasir, however terrorists were fired back by soldiers of Punjab regiment. Enemy was in near vicinity and fire exchange was taking place from as close as 70 metres. The valiant sons of Punjab regiment led by its brave officers proved true to their salt. In this dual of extreme nerves they proved their professional mettle and hit the terrorists back with extreme courage and bravery.

Meanwhile Punjab regiment on inner cordon of the base was reinforced by troops of Punjab Light Commando Battalion led by Major Hassan in heavy volleys of fire. Moving forward I contacted CO of the Punjab regiment and coordinated the employment of my men with him. The best part was that no intrusion had been made by the terrorists into KAB. The fire fight continued till 0145 hours when the last of the big blasts was heard near inner fence. It was expected that all terrorists had been killed by that time. It was the same time that I received a call from Maj Gen Majid Ehsan who appreciated all the troops, took a stock of situation on ground and asked me for any further help in discharging of duties.

The situation and events at PAF Base Samungli were no different from KAB. The provost and intelligence tentacles provided the information of a suspicious vehicle with about 8 individuals parked within short vicinity of outer boundary of the base wall near Kili Khezi. Troops from FC Balochistan deployed outside the wall were assigned to check the vehicle. When the FC troops reached near the vehicle, the terrorists, of whom two were wearing FC uniforms started firing at them.

In the heavy exchange of fire, the terrorists spread out and started firing rockets, small arms and various other fire arms. They fired about 5-6 rockets into the air base which landed near main tarmac. Allah had been so kind that no harm was done and that few of those rockets didn't even explode. Three terrorists were killed during this encounter with the FC.

This was followed by a fierce fire fight between terrorists and own security guards on outer fence which resulted in multiple bullet and shrapnel injuries to own troops of the Punjab regiment and Defence Services Guard (DSG).

During this exchange of fire, Wing Commander Mehr Gul, rushed to the base main tarmac. Simultaneously Air Commodore Salman Bukhari moved troops of the Punjab regiment and PAF ground combaters to the boundary wall to tackle the expected intrusion. The terrorists had also made holes in outer boundary wall and were making efforts to enter the base. In the same situation, the terrorists got inside the boundary wall and were hiding near one of the washrooms of DSG living area.

At about 0130 hours, Wing Commander Mehr Gul and Wing Commander Ameed Ullah requested base Commander for employment of Punjab Light Commando troops at the air base since any further intrusion into the base could be disastrous. On the request of the Base Commander, an armed helicopter (heli) was sent to Samungli from KAB. The heli spotted few individuals hiding along boundary wall and fired upon them. The QRF of Punjab Light Commando Battalion comprising 40 individuals was moved to the Air Base at about 0245 hours. Snipers were deployed along the inner perimeter covering the fighter aircrafts while Captain Fakhar alongwith Wing Commander Mehr Gul climbed upon ADA pen (a high rise structure) for observing and locating the hidden terrorists. They successfully located the hidden terrorists through specialized NVGs and same information was shared with Major Atif and Captain Bugti of the Punjab regiment and PAF troops. These two brave officers were quick to respond and killed the terrorists.

By 0615 hours the situation had calmed at both bases. The assets had remained safe Alhamdolillah and there wasn't any fatal casualties to own troops except 14 wounded. In all, 12 terrorists had been killed including 6 who were wearing suicidal jackets. The terrorists had left behind a huge cache of ammunition and explosives. The national threat had been subdued with great courage and conviction and above all, with the united response of all our security forces.

Lt Gen Nasser Janjua, Commander Southern Command was continuously monitoring the situation at both places and was issuing orders for implementation at ground level. The follow up visits of Gen Raheel Sharif, Chief of Army Staff, Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt, Chief of Air Staff, CM Balochistan Abdul Malik along with his ministers, IG police, and IGFC Balochistan to the wounded officers and soldiers raised the morale of the troops.

The success of the operation was a divine blessing indeed. The public grew more confidence in the forces and are certain that the security of Pakistan lie in safer hands. Timely help in shape of information sharing by the local population was indeed the most valuable asset in this operation.

We all should bow our heads to Allah Almighty in gratitude of the divine help in the thickest hour.









Alert and Firm


An eyewitness account of the terrorist attack at Khalid Aviation Base, Quetta and PAF Base Samungli on night 14/15 August 2014 It was an evening as usual in Quetta as I was retiring at my residence and was enjoying the programmes of Independence Day on TV. It was around 2135 hours that I...




www.hilal.gov.pk

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## RescueRanger

blain2 said:


> Good questions and I honestly don't have the details. I believe this has been a train-the-trainer concept initially led by the SSG and now perhaps handled by the LCBs themselves for the new manpower they induct from the RTCs. My understanding is that all of the Infantry regiments of the Pakistan Army I.e. PR, Baloch, FF, Sind, AK, and NLI have an LCB each.
> 
> A good article by Lt Col Sohail Bajwa on how his LCB and others have been employed to assist in cases of terrorist attacks.
> 
> Alert and Firm​
> An eyewitness account of the terrorist attack at Khalid Aviation Base, Quetta and PAF Base Samungli on night 14/15 August 2014
> It was an evening as usual in Quetta as I was retiring at my residence and was enjoying the programmes of Independence Day on TV. It was around 2135 hours that I received a call from HQ Southern Command (HQ SC) that I needed to report immediately at Khalid Aviation Base (KAB) Quetta in relation with a terrorist activity.
> 
> Being a Commanding Officer (CO) of Light Commando Battalion, I immediately passed instructions to my men and moved to the location of the incident. In the meanwhile I was informed that some intrusion by the terrorists had taken place both at PAF Base Samungli and KAB. The CO of a Punjab regiment, Lt Col Ahmed was also passed similar instructions who also immediately moved to KAB.
> 
> Upon reaching KAB and taking control of my area of responsibility, I came to know that the terrorists were spotted by few civilians while they were attempting to cut the outer fence of the base and making their way in. The locals residing nearby KAB, displayed responsibility and immediately passed this information to the authorities concerned. The information was conforming to earlier threats to KAB and Samungli base thus the entire security apparatus in the cantonment as well as Samungli base came to red alert.
> 
> I was told to cordon off the base from south, checking suspicious movement and stop any spillover of the terrorists towards the Cantonment. Meanwhile the General Officer Commanding (GOC) Maj Gen Aftab, Brigadier Rohail and Brigadier Aziz ul Hassan Usmani had been carrying the reconnaissance of entire base periphery. At the same time, the QRF of my unit was put on 15 minutes notice possibly for PAF Base Samungli.
> 
> In the meanwhile, troops from FF regiment were also assigned to carry out search from the intrusion site. As soon the troops led by Lt Col Waseem Iqbal and Captain Yasir approached the middle part of the fence, they were fired upon fiercely. The fire was so intense that it had hit Brigadier Usmani's vehicle, bursting its tyre, and a bullet also passed through the jeep of Maj Gen Aftab. It is important to mention about the valour of the Base Commander's driver who changed the burst tyre in minimum time amidst heavy exchange of fire and successfully brought the commander back to base.
> 
> This fire caused multiple bullet injuries to troops of FF regiment including Captain Yasir, however terrorists were fired back by soldiers of Punjab regiment. Enemy was in near vicinity and fire exchange was taking place from as close as 70 metres. The valiant sons of Punjab regiment led by its brave officers proved true to their salt. In this dual of extreme nerves they proved their professional mettle and hit the terrorists back with extreme courage and bravery.
> 
> Meanwhile Punjab regiment on inner cordon of the base was reinforced by troops of Punjab Light Commando Battalion led by Major Hassan in heavy volleys of fire. Moving forward I contacted CO of the Punjab regiment and coordinated the employment of my men with him. The best part was that no intrusion had been made by the terrorists into KAB. The fire fight continued till 0145 hours when the last of the big blasts was heard near inner fence. It was expected that all terrorists had been killed by that time. It was the same time that I received a call from Maj Gen Majid Ehsan who appreciated all the troops, took a stock of situation on ground and asked me for any further help in discharging of duties.
> 
> The situation and events at PAF Base Samungli were no different from KAB. The provost and intelligence tentacles provided the information of a suspicious vehicle with about 8 individuals parked within short vicinity of outer boundary of the base wall near Kili Khezi. Troops from FC Balochistan deployed outside the wall were assigned to check the vehicle. When the FC troops reached near the vehicle, the terrorists, of whom two were wearing FC uniforms started firing at them.
> 
> In the heavy exchange of fire, the terrorists spread out and started firing rockets, small arms and various other fire arms. They fired about 5-6 rockets into the air base which landed near main tarmac. Allah had been so kind that no harm was done and that few of those rockets didn't even explode. Three terrorists were killed during this encounter with the FC.
> 
> This was followed by a fierce fire fight between terrorists and own security guards on outer fence which resulted in multiple bullet and shrapnel injuries to own troops of the Punjab regiment and Defence Services Guard (DSG).
> 
> During this exchange of fire, Wing Commander Mehr Gul, rushed to the base main tarmac. Simultaneously Air Commodore Salman Bukhari moved troops of the Punjab regiment and PAF ground combaters to the boundary wall to tackle the expected intrusion. The terrorists had also made holes in outer boundary wall and were making efforts to enter the base. In the same situation, the terrorists got inside the boundary wall and were hiding near one of the washrooms of DSG living area.
> 
> At about 0130 hours, Wing Commander Mehr Gul and Wing Commander Ameed Ullah requested base Commander for employment of Punjab Light Commando troops at the air base since any further intrusion into the base could be disastrous. On the request of the Base Commander, an armed helicopter (heli) was sent to Samungli from KAB. The heli spotted few individuals hiding along boundary wall and fired upon them. The QRF of Punjab Light Commando Battalion comprising 40 individuals was moved to the Air Base at about 0245 hours. Snipers were deployed along the inner perimeter covering the fighter aircrafts while Captain Fakhar alongwith Wing Commander Mehr Gul climbed upon ADA pen (a high rise structure) for observing and locating the hidden terrorists. They successfully located the hidden terrorists through specialized NVGs and same information was shared with Major Atif and Captain Bugti of the Punjab regiment and PAF troops. These two brave officers were quick to respond and killed the terrorists.
> 
> By 0615 hours the situation had calmed at both bases. The assets had remained safe Alhamdolillah and there wasn't any fatal casualties to own troops except 14 wounded. In all, 12 terrorists had been killed including 6 who were wearing suicidal jackets. The terrorists had left behind a huge cache of ammunition and explosives. The national threat had been subdued with great courage and conviction and above all, with the united response of all our security forces.
> 
> Lt Gen Nasser Janjua, Commander Southern Command was continuously monitoring the situation at both places and was issuing orders for implementation at ground level. The follow up visits of Gen Raheel Sharif, Chief of Army Staff, Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt, Chief of Air Staff, CM Balochistan Abdul Malik along with his ministers, IG police, and IGFC Balochistan to the wounded officers and soldiers raised the morale of the troops.
> 
> The success of the operation was a divine blessing indeed. The public grew more confidence in the forces and are certain that the security of Pakistan lie in safer hands. Timely help in shape of information sharing by the local population was indeed the most valuable asset in this operation.
> 
> We all should bow our heads to Allah Almighty in gratitude of the divine help in the thickest hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alert and Firm
> 
> 
> An eyewitness account of the terrorist attack at Khalid Aviation Base, Quetta and PAF Base Samungli on night 14/15 August 2014 It was an evening as usual in Quetta as I was retiring at my residence and was enjoying the programmes of Independence Day on TV. It was around 2135 hours that I...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hilal.gov.pk


Deserves two positive points but alas I can only reward one.

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## PanzerKiel

blain2 said:


> Good questions and I honestly don't have the details. I believe this has been a train-the-trainer concept initially led by the SSG and now perhaps handled by the LCBs themselves for the new manpower they induct from the RTCs. My understanding is that all of the Infantry regiments of the Pakistan Army I.e. PR, Baloch, FF, Sind, AK, and NLI have an LCB each.


All the infantry regiments have now atleast two light commando units each.

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## PanzerKiel

SSGOPERATOR said:


> @PanzerKiel @Reichmarshal
> Assalam o Alaikum
> How long is Light Commando's course for soldiers and officers? And what's its official name?


Generally four to five months.


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## Great Janjua

PanzerKiel said:


> Generally four to five months.


I recently heard of the Pakistan army making Special operation teams on LOC are they separate from the Commando Platoons currently present or is it just a fancier name for the Latter.

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## ghazi52

,..
Role & Task of Special Services Wing, PAF includes the training of PAF commandos and carry out Special Operations as and when needed, to destroy / neutralize designated targets in enemy country, to carry out reconnaissance in designated areas, to impart Parachuting Training to commandos / other personnel of Pakistan Air Force, to train SSW personnel on Anti Terrorist Role, to conduct Special Anti Terrorist operations as directed by Air Headquarters, and keep ourselves at a high state of preparedness for the war time role.

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## Kompromat

There needs to be an Inter Services SOF outfit.

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## White privilege

Horus said:


> There needs to be an Inter Services SOF outfit.


Wouldn't that be redundant??


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## blain2

White privilege said:


> Wouldn't that be redundant??


I think he is alluding to a Joint Special Operations Command type of a structure. Jury is still out on whether that would help Pakistan or is it more suited for nations with expeditionary, global operational requirements. Within Pakistan, our three Special Forces have unique tasks that don't necessarily overlap. AFAIK, quite a bit of the basic and some of the advanced Commando training for the PA/PN/PAF is jointly done including Para School. Whereas, special to service training is conducted by the SF training cadres at SOS Tarbela, PNS Iqbal and Kallar Kahar respectively.

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## Great Janjua

blain2 said:


> I think he is alluding to a Joint Special Operations Command type of a structure. Jury is still out on whether that would help Pakistan or is it more suited for nations with expeditionary, global operational requirements. Within Pakistan, our three Special Forces have unique tasks that don't necessarily overlap. AFAIK, quite a bit of the basic and some of the advanced Commando training for the PA/PN/PAF is jointly done including Para School. Whereas, special to service training is conducted by the SF training cadres at SOS Tarbela, PNS Iqbal and Kallar Kahar respectively.


A joint special forces command is the need of the hour. It brings together the many skills of different units into one making a lethal force for any task with ease of command. The greater the synergy the better the outcome.

I thought with the countless experience gained in WOT we would have established a similar command by now.

Also, @PanzerKiel I heard of "Special Operations Teams" being set up on (you know what) but my question is are they a different force from the commando platoons or......


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## PanzerKiel

Great Janjua said:


> A joint special forces command is the need of the hour. It brings together the many skills of different units into one making a lethal force for any task with ease of command. The greater the synergy the better the outcome.
> 
> I thought with the countless experience gained in WOT we would have established a similar command by now.
> 
> Also, @PanzerKiel I heard of "Special Operations Teams" being set up on (you know what) but my question is are they a different force from the commando platoons or......


Am all for it though.... 

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/requ...rvice-operations-command-for-pakistan.683857/ 

@Horus @White privilege @blain2

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## Ice-Le0

So, something I have been questioning as of late has been the organization and general layout of the Special Services Wing (SSW). 

I looked around for it and I kept being linked back to the Wikipedia article, which is a bit terrible due to using only one source, and I came across this:








This entire table is unsourced and I have no way of confirming if any of the information is correct or even real. If anyone could provide insight into this, preferably with sources of some sort, that would be very appreciated as I am trying to better understand the SSW from their gear to their organization.

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## White privilege

PanzerKiel said:


> Am all for it though....
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/requ...rvice-operations-command-for-pakistan.683857/
> 
> @Horus @White privilege @blain2


Do we get our NOC operatives exclusively from the special forces or are there more requirements for that??

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## ghazi52

.,.,
These soldiers are our pride and we owe them every thing.
The warriors of the land.
The only difference they are sacrificing lives and our leaders are facilitators for their killers.

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## Yellow13

Ice-Le0 said:


> So, something I have been questioning as of late has been the organization and general layout of the Special Services Wing (SSW).
> 
> I looked around for it and I kept being linked back to the Wikipedia article, which is a bit terrible due to using only one source, and I came across this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This entire table is unsourced and I have no way of confirming if any of the information is correct or even real. If anyone could provide insight into this, preferably with sources of some sort, that would be very appreciated as I am trying to better understand the SSW from their gear to their organization.


I don't think that fighter pilots who have graduated from CCS ( USAF FWS equivalent? ) would be in any way physically prepared to undergo special forces training.


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## blain2

Ice-Le0 said:


> So, something I have been questioning as of late has been the organization and general layout of the Special Services Wing (SSW).
> 
> I looked around for it and I kept being linked back to the Wikipedia article, which is a bit terrible due to using only one source, and I came across this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This entire table is unsourced and I have no way of confirming if any of the information is correct or even real. If anyone could provide insight into this, preferably with sources of some sort, that would be very appreciated as I am trying to better understand the SSW from their gear to their organization.


This is a heap of garbage. Please don't post this nonsense, it is outright embarrassing.

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## White privilege

Yellow13 said:


> I don't think that fighter pilots who have graduated from CCS ( USAF FWS equivalent? ) would be in any way physically prepared to undergo special forces training.


I have personally hijacked enemy fighters from their bases, after insertion with the aid of special forces, and then escorted their chopper back safely, so yes this is possible, *in gameplay. 😁😄*

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## ghazi52

Don't forget them..

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## ghazi52

Proud...
Chingissids in the Special Service Group; sword arm of the Pakistan Army.

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## R2D2

I have heard that General Mitha, the starter of SSG in Pakistan fought under British General Wingate in Burma against the Japanese.

General Wingate during 1936-39 went to Palestine to train the Jews whose transports to farms were facing attacks from the Arabs from surrounding villages. He advised the Jews to do aggressive defense and attack the Arabs.

So Gen Mitha must have adapted his Chindits Burma experiences into the SSG training.









Orde Wingate - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





In my opinion Israel has evolved those concepts of Wingate and also added Intelligence and now technology to it. Previously, they had only banking and inhumanity.


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## ghazi52

..,
in the summer of 1999, the OC of the then Zarrar Company, Major Haroon Islam would volunteer for deployment during Operation Koh-e-Paima, alongwith a sniper detachment of the Company..


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## ghazi52

.,.


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## ghazi52

SSGN

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## ghazi52

SSG
ھم موت سے عشق کرنے والے عاشق ہيں
ھم سے کبھی زندگی کا سودا مت کرنا.​

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## ghazi52

Some where in Balochistan..

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## Yellow13

I have noticed that the average SSG operator is leaner and quite smaller compared to the average US/UK SOF operator. Is it a consequence of SSG placing a premium on running? Also, amongst the UK SOF I have met, a small but not insignificant number of operators are using steroids and other PEDs to gain mass/strength. Is this also the case amongst SSG? I have seen that the enlisted members stay for about 17–20 years, and this physical beating does take a toll on the body. Do the SSG also have Human Performance Optimization or THOR3 equivalents?


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## Abramar

Yellow13 said:


> I have noticed that the average SSG operator is leaner and quite smaller compared to the average US/UK SOF operator. Is it a consequence of SSG placing a premium on running? Also, amongst the UK SOF I have met, a small but not insignificant number of operators are using steroids and other PEDs to gain mass/strength. Is this also the case amongst SSG? I have seen that the enlisted members stay for about 17–20 years, and this physical beating does take a toll on the body. Do the SSG also have Human Performance Optimization or THOR3 equivalents?


There was a time when SAS, Delta Force, Green Berets all Special Operations Members were small and Lean like current SF units of Pakistan and India, but as time went on the western SF put a higher emphasis on being able to carry more ammunition and equipment, as manuever warfare was given a lower priority since western SF always operate with some kind of support assets such as Air or artillery support. However, Pakistani SF are still following the doctrine of being an independent fighting force, how the Green Berets USED to be. Keep in mind SSG were initially trained by US Green Berets. It is impossible to say which doctrine is more effective, it just depends.

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## Bossman

Abramar said:


> There was a time when SAS, Delta Force, Green Berets all Special Operations Members were small and Lean like current SF units of Pakistan and India, but as time went on the western SF put a higher emphasis on being able to carry more ammunition and equipment, as manuever warfare was given a lower priority since western SF always operate with some kind of support assets such as Air or artillery support. However, Pakistani SF are still following the doctrine of being an independent fighting force, how the Green Berets USED to be. Keep in mind SSG were initially trained by US Green Berets. It is impossible to say which doctrine is more effective, it just depends.


General Mitha, the father of Pakistan special forces used to say “be proud of your poverty”

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## ghazi52

.,,

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557107065436475394

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## ghazi52

.,.,

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## ghazi52

Pakistan Independence Day at Kabul. Aug. 2022..

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## Khan_patriot

Yellow13 said:


> I have noticed that the average SSG operator is leaner and quite smaller compared to the average US/UK SOF operator. Is it a consequence of SSG placing a premium on running? Also, amongst the UK SOF I have met, a small but not insignificant number of operators are using steroids and other PEDs to gain mass/strength. Is this also the case amongst SSG? I have seen that the enlisted members stay for about 17–20 years, and this physical beating does take a toll on the body. Do the SSG also have Human Performance Optimization or THOR3 equivalents?


Most soldiers, especially at the highest levels, are lean and not like how they are portrayed in Hollywood. Anyone looking like Arnold from Predator or Stallone from Rambo (although a very few do exist irl) is going to have a hard time meeting the stringent cardiovascular requirements of being in any SOF outfit. Bottom line is Hollywood puts up a certain image of SOF dudes that most people believe is true but that is far from reality just as with anything else on Hollywood.


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## Great Janjua

Which force uses that British-styled Multicam we can see in this video. Was it a one-time thing?? 

@PanzerKiel


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## Yellow13

Khan_patriot said:


> Most soldiers, especially at the highest levels, are lean and not like how they are portrayed in Hollywood. Anyone looking like Arnold from Predator or Stallone from Rambo (although a very few do exist irl) is going to have a hard time meeting the stringent cardiovascular requirements of being in any SOF outfit. Bottom line is Hollywood puts up a certain image of SOF dudes that most people believe is true but that is far from reality just as with anything else on Hollywood.


It depends, really. The UK SOF I have seen had a mix of big guys and small guys, but the Green Berets and Rangers were absolute physical beasts. They would carry each other and sprint multiple times. It was extremely impressive, but I am sure a significant portion were on steroids or other PEDs.


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## Khan_patriot

Yellow13 said:


> It depends, really. The UK SOF I have seen had a mix of big guys and small guys, but the Green Berets and Rangers were absolute physical beasts. They would carry each other and sprint multiple times. It was extremely impressive, but I am sure a significant portion were on steroids or other PEDs.


I agree but there are bound to be outliers in any outfit with SOF being no exception. I know SSG dudes some of which are towering giants and absolute beasts but then again I’ve seen guys in the group from Chitral/ Gilgit who look frail and stand around 5ft 5 inches (which makes them all the more badass). Physique/ build doesn’t matter as long as they are capable of operating at the highest levels. I agree Caucasian/ Black genetics coupled with PEDs and SOF training regimen does produce absolute beasts in Western SOF.

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## Great Janjua

Khan_patriot said:


> I agree but there are bound to be outliers in any outfit with SOF being no exception. I know SSG dudes some of which are towering giants and absolute beasts but then again I’ve seen guys in the group from Chitral/ Gilgit who look frail and stand around 5ft 5 inches (which makes them all the more badass). Physique/ build doesn’t matter as long as they are capable of operating at the highest levels. I agree Caucasian/ Black genetics coupled with PEDs and SOF training regimen does produce absolute beasts in Western SOF.


Physique needs maintenance too it's not just ill get jacked and it will be fine and dandy it needs all the processes to hold on to the gains which require commitment and money for a superpower like America it makes sense. 

Pakistani soldiers are required to be physically and mentally fit, fitness does not correlate to being jacked its a process of being sufficient enough to carry out gruelling tasks. 

Whats the point of being jacked when you can't run 10 miles without huffing and puffing.

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## ghazi52

Training together.. USA / Pakistan..


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## PanzerKiel

Great Janjua said:


> Which force uses that British-styled Multicam we can see in this video. Was it a one-time thing??
> 
> @PanzerKiel


Thats the new digital camo uniform approved for use by SSG.


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## Great Janjua

PanzerKiel said:


> Thats the new digital camo uniform approved for use by SSG.


What the hell The old one is sufficient why are we wasting dollars on camos when the focus should be the equipment? Is the rot setting in or what.


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## Bossman

Great Janjua said:


> What the hell The old one is sufficient why are we wasting dollars on camos when the focus should be the equipment? Is the rot setting in or what.


Doesn’t cost to much to change a pattern. They have to get new uniforms every six months irrespective if they are old pattern or new


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## ghazi52

.,.,.,
Captain Ali Mehmood (Tamgha-e-Basalat) 
115L/C, 8 NLI, 5 CDO Embraced shahadat during operation against terrorists, Mohmand Agency, opt Brekhna .
A Daring commando, a cheerful guy. 
May Allah bless his soul and elevate his ranks hereafter.

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## ghazi52

.,.,

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## ghazi52

,.,..,
Meet (SSG) Captain Naveed Hussain who broke the 30 years old record of physical endurance. 
He ran for 6 hours 28 minutes, covering a distance of 60 km. Captain has set a new record. 
He was carrying his SMG & a loaded kit bag as well. (2020)..

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## Super Falcon

Light Tactical Vehicle for SSG they needed these protected vehicles


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## CLUMSY




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## Sifar zero

US SOF's M4 have longer barrels which ones are those??
And does Pakistan have them??


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## ghazi52

,..,.,
SSG commando Colonel Sajid Naveed Lodhi was martyred in a road accident on his way back from Kashmir.
Colonel Sajid was a very intelligent and brave SSG officer.
He participated in many operations and showed the essence of his success..
He was expert in mountains and guerilla warfare

May Allah grant Colonel Sahib a high place in Jannat al-Firdous. Amen!!

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## ghazi52

Pakistan ...

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## Reichmarshal

ghazi52 said:


> ,..,.,
> SSG commando Colonel Sajid Naveed Lodhi was martyred in a road accident on his way back from Kashmir.
> Colonel Sajid was a very intelligent and brave SSG officer.
> He participated in many operations and showed the essence of his success..
> He was expert in mountains and guerilla warfare
> 
> May Allah grant Colonel Sahib a high place in Jannat al-Firdous. Amen!!
> 
> View attachment 878885


Cause n place of death other then the one mentioned above for general publics consumption.
May ALLAH grant him jannah


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## ghazi52

.,,.

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## CLUMSY

Sifar zero said:


> US SOF's M4 have longer barrels which ones are those??
> And does Pakistan have them??


I think by longer barrel you are referring to rail extensions. Its the newer m4a1 blocks such as m4a1 block 2. Seen a few on 75th Rangers. As for us using them then no, unfortunately we dont. They are very handy if you want to really kit out your gun though, makes using the rifle in C-Clamp easier too.


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## ghazi52

,...,,






He embraced shahadat during a counterterrorism operation against TTP near Angoor Ada, South Waziristan.


Major Shujaat Hussain Shaheed
Baloch Regiment 
SITARA E BASALAT 🎖️
Special Service Group, ...Zarrar
11 April 2022

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## Khan_patriot

Great Janjua said:


> What the hell The old one is sufficient why are we wasting dollars on camos when the focus should be the equipment? Is the rot setting in or what.


Do you honestly think the woodland pattern is suitable for ops in arid regions, which are well over 50 pc of the country? There you have your answer. Although you are free to form your own opinions but atleast give it a thought before you jump to conclusion.


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## Reichmarshal

SSG has been given many options but they don't want to change the uniform


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## Maea

Reichmarshal said:


> SSG has been given many options but they don't want to change the uniform



Any particular reason? 
Btw i think the current one looks absolutely amazing.


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## ghazi52

.,.,.,

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## ghazi52

,.,.,.

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## Metal 0-1

Amaa'n said:


> View attachment 834503
> 
> View attachment 834505
> View attachment 834504
> 
> 
> 
> JTAC / CCTs??





ghazi52 said:


> Training together.. USA / Pakistan..
> 
> View attachment 871842
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 871843
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 871844


That's kinda interesting.


Came back to this thread after very long time. Lol



Great Janjua said:


> What the hell The old one is sufficient why are we wasting dollars on camos when the focus should be the equipment? Is the rot setting in or what.












That's because woodland doesn't perform good even in woodland terrain

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## CLUMSY

M81 woodland is slowly getting obsolete. We need new camos. Preferably british or american multicam. Even regular army one isnt bad, better than m81 imo. Ive always been an advocate of regular and SOF units having the same camo, makes distinguishing harder.

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## Metal 0-1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> @Metal 0-1 apke reply ka intezar hain mujh ko..........


Who? Me? What happened?


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## Metal 0-1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> The instagram link i shared, did you open it?
> What are your thoughts about it?


Oh yeah yeah, i forgor.

Interesting for sure. But I'll like to see original videos.


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## CLUMSY

Ay mere rabb ssg ko multicam induct karne ki hidayat ata farma

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## ghazi52

SSG

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## ghazi52

Defenders..

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## ghazi52

Watchful eyes ....

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## PanzerKiel

ghazi52 said:


> Watchful eyes ....
> 
> View attachment 885196


Nice one...especially with the smoke in hand.

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## Reichmarshal

PanzerKiel said:


> smoke in hand.


Sada ya braha hoa


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## Great Janjua

@PanzerKiel why did the Pakistan air force change their camo again.


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## PanzerKiel

Great Janjua said:


> @PanzerKiel why did the Pakistan air force change their camo again.


Maybe something long over due, maybe a pressing requirement, or maybe someone thinking of leaving his personal footprint for later, or someone trying to show others that he has also contributed something.

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## ghazi52

PAF has also changed their combat force uniform..

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## Metal 0-1

ghazi52 said:


> PAF has also changed their combat force uniform..
> 
> View attachment 886047


Absolute dogshit

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## White privilege

Metal 0-1 said:


> Absolute dogshit


OMG, not this pre-2016 commando camo again. The grey tone was fine yawr.....


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## ghazi52

,.,


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## CLUMSY

White privilege said:


> OMG, not this pre-2016 commando camo again. The grey tone was fine yawr.....


Nah, not imo. As someone who has access to both the woodland does a MUCH better job and is more practical. The Tiger Stripe camo made no sense, woodland is going to be much more useful for guards at checkpoints at say...places like the base at Sargodha. On runway doesnt matter since its mandatory to wear reflective vests. Still shouldve gone with multicam, but i think this is better than the prev one.


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## Reichmarshal

ghazi52 said:


> PAF has also changed their combat force uniform..
> 
> View attachment 886047


These inferiority complexed fu#kers dident have the balls to volunteer for ssw selection test, so the next best thing is to play ssw dressup

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## Great Janjua

Reichmarshal said:


> These inferiority complexed fu#kers dident have the balls to volunteer for ssw selection test, so the next best thing is to play ssw dressup


SSW choora version


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## CLUMSY

Reichmarshal said:


> These inferiority complexed fu#kers dident have the balls to volunteer for ssw selection test, so the next best thing is to play ssw dressup


Whats wrong with SF and regs having same camo? Its honestly much more beneficial and practical for both. You shouldnt be able to recognize special forces soldiers

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## Metal 0-1

CLUMSY said:


> Whats wrong with SF and regs having same camo? Its honestly much more beneficial and practical for both. You shouldnt be able to recognize special forces soldiers


It's not even M81.

They had M81 before they switched to some gray pixelated camo then back to this dogleg version of woodland


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## CLUMSY

Metal 0-1 said:


> It's not even M81.
> 
> They had M81 before they switched to some gray pixelated camo then back to this dogleg version of woodland


Im not saying its the same camo. Its not. Im just attacking the notion that special forces and regs should have seperate camos, can give away your identity and theres not even a point. For SSG/SSW/SSGN and regs a single camo should be standardized imo.


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## Metal 0-1

CLUMSY said:


> Im not saying its the same camo. Its not. Im just attacking the notion that special forces and regs should have seperate camos, can give away your identity and theres not even a point. For SSG/SSW/SSGN and regs a single camo should be standardized imo.


Man we need to un-standardize camos for Special occasions Operations Community.


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## CLUMSY

Metal 0-1 said:


> Man we need to un-standardize camos for Special occasions Operations Community.


In many cases yeah i guess so, either way m81 needs to go. Maybe a variation of multicam pattern


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## Metal 0-1

CLUMSY said:


> In many cases yeah i guess so, either way m81 needs to go. Maybe a variation of multicam pattern


Nah, M-81 maybe less effective camo than multicam. But it goes hard.

AOR-1, AOR-2 and ATACS-FG are good cause they are effective and go hard af


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## Metal 0-1

Is this too much to ask for?

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## CLUMSY

Metal 0-1 said:


> Is this too much to ask for?
> View attachment 887931


Yes, will keep rocking those AliBaba combat vests with decade old m4s with compm2s till death bby 😤😤


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## ghazi52

.,.,
Raja Amjad Razzaq Shaheed ! Special Service Group Navy SSGN
Shahadat: 22 May 2011
PNS Mehran, Karachi....

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## ghazi52

,..,
Pakistan Army SSG personnel during an anti-terrorist operation while a PAA AH-1F Cobra pounding terrorist position in the background.

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## ghazi52

.,.,.
Pakistan Army Special Services Group (SSG) contingent somewhere in Russian on training exercises while a Russian Mi-17 resting in the background!

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## ghazi52

EXERCISE SEA THUNDER V 2022
The Indonesian Navy's Frog Troop Command (Kopaska TNI AL) and Pakistan Navy's Special Service Group (SSG-N) are holding the SEA THUNDER V Joint Exercise (Latma) from 7 to 16 November held in Jakarta and the Thousand Islands...

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## ghazi52

.,.,
FC and SSG boys after conducting a successful operation somewhere in the Baluchistan Region!

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## ghazi52

...
Nothing ,just chilling in -40° Celsius somewhere in Siachen...

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## ghazi52

,..,.,
A Bell 412 of Pakistan Army Aviation inserting a squad of SSG commandos in a mountainous area of North Waziristan..

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## ghazi52

.,.,
SSG sniper unit preparing to set-up an over watch to guard the valley and monitor the movement, somewhere on Waziristan's rocky terrain.

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## Primus

ghazi52 said:


> .,.,
> FC and SSG boys after conducting a successful operation somewhere in the Baluchistan Region!
> 
> View attachment 896396


Panjgur


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## ghazi52

.,.,
Special Service Wing (SSW) during a training exercise at a firing range near Karachi,

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## ghazi52

,..,.
Officers from SSG No.3 Commando battalion "Powindah's" pictured during their training at 22nd British Special Air Service (SAS) Regiment at Stirling Lines.

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## ghazi52

.,.,

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## Metal 0-1

Interesting to see some pictures are from my Reddit account


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## SSGOPERATOR

Can someone kindly write the SSG Anthem in English? Their is one available on youtube but it has some mistakes.


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## CLUMSY

Metal 0-1 said:


> Interesting to see some pictures are from my Reddit account


Were/are you notgarandthumb?



ghazi52 said:


> .,.,.
> Pakistan Army Special Services Group (SSG) contingent somewhere in Russian on training exercises while a Russian Mi-17 resting in the background!
> 
> View attachment 896034


Joint SSG/SSW or SSW only maybe judging from fn f2000s... Maybe there as TACP


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## ghazi52

,.,.
Baluchistan, Pakistan: During an IBO in Kaman Pass near Sharag area of the district Harnai Balochistan. 
Two Soldiers Sepoy Shafiullah & Muhammad Qaiser were martyred. 4 terrorists were neutralized, a cache of weapons is also recovered,

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## Metal 0-1

CLUMSY said:


> notgarandthumb


We've been ratted out boys.


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## CLUMSY

Metal 0-1 said:


> We've been ratted out boys.


Damn man, your posts were top notch. I think you deleted your account?

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## Metal 0-1

CLUMSY said:


> Damn man, your posts were top notch. I think you deleted your account?


Got into argument with some indian guy, got banned. 

Started again with a new account but didn't had the energy to keep up with Reddit bs


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## CLUMSY

Metal 0-1 said:


> Got into argument with some indian guy, got banned.
> 
> Started again with a new account but didn't had the energy to keep up with Reddit bs


I got suspended too for pissing off some indians, annoying lot they are


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## ghazi52

,.,.
ACE of PAF​"They" messed with the wrong Guys!

An SSG Commando poses in front of an American made Humvee captured from Afghan Talibans which they left while retreating after attacking a Pakistan Army check post in recent AF-Pak border clash.

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## ghazi52

Great work by Hamza Tariq..


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## ghazi52

.,.,

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## Metal 0-1

ghazi52 said:


> ,.,.
> ACE of PAF​"They" messed with the wrong Guys!
> 
> An SSG Commando poses in front of an American made Humvee captured from Afghan Talibans which they left while retreating after attacking a Pakistan Army check post in recent AF-Pak border clash.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 898534


I remember the day I put the black bar to obscure identify.


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## ghazi52

Exercise in Russia...
This is an old picture of Druzba series of Exercise which happens on alternate years in Pakistan and Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594247811884666880

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## ghazi52

.,.,.
Special Service Group (Navy) along with Turkish Special Forces during a bilateral exercise at Karachi Naval Station.

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## ghazi52

.,,.

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## ghazi52

..,..
Captain Ahmad Raza Shaheed 
Special Service Group 
Shahadat 22 May 2013 Tirah Valley, Khyber Agency.

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## ghazi52

..,

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## ghazi52

SSGN

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## blain2

White privilege said:


> OMG, not this pre-2016 commando camo again. The grey tone was fine yawr.....


Grey tone was phased out by the USN as well. It was found to be impractical in operational scenarios. Think about cost of having yet another uniform.


CLUMSY said:


> Whats wrong with SF and regs having same camo? Its honestly much more beneficial and practical for both. You shouldnt be able to recognize special forces soldiers


100% Agree. The SF should wear exactly the same uniform as the rest of the force and just a single SSG wing should differentiate the service members from other formations.


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## White privilege

blain2 said:


> Grey tone was phased out by the USN as well. It was found to be impractical in operational scenarios. Think about cost of having yet another uniform.


Why does the camo tone matter anyway for the Air force or Navy?? It is not like they are involved in direct ground combat or something....


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## CLUMSY

White privilege said:


> Why does the camo tone matter anyway for the Air force or Navy?? It is not like they are involved in direct ground combat or something....


Air force security, QRF and they also have limited ground force capabilities, also can come in handy when constructing and managing improvised airstrips (highways, strips of dirt etc.). With navy personnel will still need camo that can break their shape up at ground installations and at sea

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## blain2

I would like to share something because there is a tendency to put more emphasis on new gear, new uniforms, how the special forces look etc.

Even for a first world special forces like the ones in the United States, the core tenet or "truths" as they call them in US SOF community, starts with "Humans are more important than hardware." I.e. people, not equipment, make the difference. This is so cardinally true because a highly trained and motivated individual working in a team can accomplish any mission even with equipment limitations, but untrained units with all the gear in the world cannot.

So the expectation with SSG should be that they get and hold on to the best possible human resource available within the Pakistan Army and never let up on training standards, equipment be damned. As long as this remains the guiding principle, we will have a solid SF capability.

Keep in mind we have Taliban conducting effective special operations against first world militaries with what? Sandals on, chadar on, rusted/beaten up AK-47s and RPG-7s, and even though the western world won't admit, the Taliban have carried out some spectacular special missions against ISAF and I hate to say, even against our border forces (or their raids against Pakistani air bases).

The key is that the operator has to be solid in his craft. He has to be motivated and the rest falls into place. So what if I have an AK-47 and the other chap a SCAR or better equipment or he "looks" more tactical than our boys?

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## R Wing

blain2 said:


> I would like to share something because there is a tendency to put more emphasis on new gear, new uniforms, how the special forces look etc.
> 
> Even for a first world special forces like the ones in the United States, the core tenet or "truths" as they call them in US SOF community, starts with "Humans are more important than hardware." I.e. people, not equipment, make the difference. This is so cardinally true because a highly trained and motivated individual working in a team can accomplish any mission even with equipment limitations, but untrained units with all the gear in the world cannot.
> 
> So the expectation with SSG should be that they get and hold on to the best possible human resource available within the Pakistan Army and never let up on training standards, equipment be damned. As long as this remains the guiding principle, we will have a solid SF capability.
> 
> Keep in mind we have Taliban conducting effective special operations against first world militaries with what? Sandals on, chadar on, rusted/beaten up AK-47s and RPG-7s, and even though the western world won't admit, the Taliban have carried out some spectacular special missions against ISAF and I hate to say, even against our border forces (or their raids against Pakistani air bases).
> 
> The key is that the operator has to be solid in his craft. He has to be motivated and the rest falls into place. So what if I have an AK-47 and the other chap a SCAR or better equipment or he "looks" more tactical than our boys?



Almost every special operator I've talked to, especially those who have been in the business for 15+ years, feel that standards have slipped with the addition of several formations and (I believe) a shorter course...?



blain2 said:


> I would like to share something because there is a tendency to put more emphasis on new gear, new uniforms, how the special forces look etc.
> 
> Even for a first world special forces like the ones in the United States, the core tenet or "truths" as they call them in US SOF community, starts with "Humans are more important than hardware." I.e. people, not equipment, make the difference. This is so cardinally true because a highly trained and motivated individual working in a team can accomplish any mission even with equipment limitations, but untrained units with all the gear in the world cannot.
> 
> So the expectation with SSG should be that they get and hold on to the best possible human resource available within the Pakistan Army and never let up on training standards, equipment be damned. As long as this remains the guiding principle, we will have a solid SF capability.
> 
> Keep in mind we have Taliban conducting effective special operations against first world militaries with what? Sandals on, chadar on, rusted/beaten up AK-47s and RPG-7s, and even though the western world won't admit, the Taliban have carried out some spectacular special missions against ISAF and I hate to say, even against our border forces (or their raids against Pakistani air bases).
> 
> The key is that the operator has to be solid in his craft. He has to be motivated and the rest falls into place. So what if I have an AK-47 and the other chap a SCAR or better equipment or he "looks" more tactical than our boys?



Secondly, we certainly can afford the best hardware for our special mission units, like Zarrar (ATU), yet they are using what can be described as the kit of a regular infantryman in the US Army. A few hundred super soldiers with the best kit isn't hard to achieve. Replicating it across all special operators is, of course, a much bigger financial decision.

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## blain2

R Wing said:


> Almost every special operator I've talked to, especially those who have been in the business for 15+ years, feel that standards have slipped with the addition of several formations and (I believe) a shorter course...?
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, we certainly can afford the best hardware for our special mission units, like Zarrar (ATU), yet they are using what can be described as the kit of a regular infantryman in the US Army. A few hundred super soldiers with the best kit isn't hard to achieve. Replicating it across all special operators is, of course, a much bigger financial decision.


Am not aware that OBCC and OACC have been reduced in time. There is also a time tested culture in the military of putting down successors with "hamara standard bada achaa thaa, ab log dheelay ho gai hain" ;-) Proof of the putting is in the eating. Has the performance of the SSG on missions gone down? Hard to tell that.

The third US SF truth in general is also very applicable here: "Special-operations forces cannot be mass-produced."

Perhaps some standards have slipped as we have tried to go from a brigade level composition to a division and also attrition in COIN requiring more manpower to be inducted. This is part of evolution.

A recent case/study revealed that almost 60% of the US Navy SEALs were taking performance enhancing drugs during selection. Given this fact, can you imagine how many USN seals in that outfit are not up to standard?

Zarrar ATU has tools that it needs for the job. Please keep in mind that an average US infantryman has equipment worth $17,000 in his kit. We would be lucky if our specialist troops were given a kit like this. We do what we can with the resources available to us. As it is, people have a problem with the standing defense budget.

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## ghazi52

.,.,,.

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## CLUMSY

blain2 said:


> I would like to share something because there is a tendency to put more emphasis on new gear, new uniforms, how the special forces look etc.
> 
> Even for a first world special forces like the ones in the United States, the core tenet or "truths" as they call them in US SOF community, starts with "Humans are more important than hardware." I.e. people, not equipment, make the difference. This is so cardinally true because a highly trained and motivated individual working in a team can accomplish any mission even with equipment limitations, but untrained units with all the gear in the world cannot.
> 
> So the expectation with SSG should be that they get and hold on to the best possible human resource available within the Pakistan Army and never let up on training standards, equipment be damned. As long as this remains the guiding principle, we will have a solid SF capability.
> 
> Keep in mind we have Taliban conducting effective special operations against first world militaries with what? Sandals on, chadar on, rusted/beaten up AK-47s and RPG-7s, and even though the western world won't admit, the Taliban have carried out some spectacular special missions against ISAF and I hate to say, even against our border forces (or their raids against Pakistani air bases).
> 
> The key is that the operator has to be solid in his craft. He has to be motivated and the rest falls into place. So what if I have an AK-47 and the other chap a SCAR or better equipment or he "looks" more tactical than our boys?


Of course, training is always going to be way more important but the gap between training and technology is shorteninv up real fast. Now we have compact devices to manage and organize coordination between different military elements (such as the ATAK), thermal and NV devices that are becoming more important than ever, and new scopes that now calculate trajectory. These are vital assets that dictate military engagements. A bunch of very well trained chaps are going to be in trouble when facing an enemy with cutting edge Thermal and NV optics at night


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## R Wing

blain2 said:


> Am not aware that OBCC and OACC have been reduced in time. There is also a time tested culture in the military of putting down successors with "hamara standard bada achaa thaa, ab log dheelay ho gai hain" ;-) Proof of the putting is in the eating. Has the performance of the SSG on missions gone down? Hard to tell that.
> 
> The third US SF truth in general is also very applicable here: "Special-operations forces cannot be mass-produced."
> 
> Perhaps some standards have slipped as we have tried to go from a brigade level composition to a division and also attrition in COIN requiring more manpower to be inducted. This is part of evolution.
> 
> A recent case/study revealed that almost 60% of the US Navy SEALs were taking performance enhancing drugs during selection. Given this fact, can you imagine how many USN seals in that outfit are not up to standard?
> 
> Zarrar ATU has tools that it needs for the job. Please keep in mind that an average US infantryman has equipment worth $17,000 in his kit. We would be lucky if our specialist troops were given a kit like this. We do what we can with the resources available to us. As it is, people have a problem with the standing defense budget.



Great points. Allow me to address each. 

1) The time-tested putting down culture is definitely true. But the increase in size, the urgency due to attrition and a large number of ops, and the (supposed) decrease in the duration of the course has to take some toll, somewhere. 

2) PEDs are common, and the lines among legit supplements and PEDs are legally clear but there's a bit of a grey area in practice. I wonder what sort of testing for trace amounts of PEDs is conducted at induction and via random checks among our special operator community...?

3) There is no question that Zarrar has some sexy toys. But we can drop $2M on better kit for Zarrar. This money can literally be raised by selling a small plot somewhere, once a decade or so (and through a hundred other sources). The second we are satisfied and use self-justificatory rhetoric, improvement becomes elusive.

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## Maula Jatt

ghazi52 said:


> .,.,,.
> View attachment 902135
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 902136


SSG is so damn cool


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## Abramar

ghazi52 said:


> .,.,,.
> View attachment 902135
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 902136


This is Arma 3 btw.


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## ghazi52

.,.

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## Windjammer



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## ghazi52

,.,,

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## ghazi52

SSGN

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## ghazi52

SSG

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## ghazi52

.,.
Captain Jahanzeb, standing with the portrait of Lt Col Haroon.

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## ghazi52

SSW ...

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## Yellow13

blain2 said:


> A recent case/study revealed that almost 60% of the US Navy SEALs were taking performance enhancing drugs during selection. Given this fact, can you imagine how many USN seals in that outfit are not up to standard?


According to the link you sent, it was 30 positive cases in 1000 students. So not 60% however, amongst active duty US SOF post selection, there is a very significant amount of steroid and PED use especially the Rangers and SEALs, not so much amongst GBs. 
It is also very unlikely that they will implement tests for serving SOF. Too expensive and decreases their short-term capability.


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## PanzerKiel

ghazi52 said:


> .,.
> Like Father like Son.
> Captain Jahanzeb, Son of Shaheed Lt Col Haroon.
> 
> View attachment 904899


He is not Col Haroon's son.

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## ghazi52

PanzerKiel said:


> He is not Col Haroon's son.


Corrected. Thanks.

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## ghazi52

,.,.

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## ghazi52

SSG..

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## ghazi52

Exercise with friendly country in Pakistan... SSG

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## ghazi52

PLA soldier helping SSG commando aiming his Chinese Bullpop QBZ-95 (5.45x45mm) automatic rifle with Type91 grenade launcher at 4 week long joint military exercise "Warrior-VI". Forces from either end share experiences in field of CT ops & learn from each other’s expertise.

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## ghazi52

,..,
Members of Pakistan’s Elite Special Force - SSG posing for a snap carrying Colt M4 rifle as their primary weapon with red dot sights (left) and optical combat sights with a M203 grenade launcher (right) somewhere in KPK,,,,

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## CLUMSY

I think we should include LCB into this thread too. P sure they classify as a SOF technically


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## ghazi52

.,.,.,
Pakistan Elite Special Forces - SSG & Russian SOF - Spetsnaz operators carrying Colt-M4 (5.56x45mm) equipped with aim-point sights during Hostage Rescue Mockup Exercises in DRUZHBA-V 2020..

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## ghazi52

,.,..,

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## ghazi52

,.,
All warfare is based on deception.
Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

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## Goritoes

What's the point of Camouflaged uniform if they are wearing a black Bullet proof vest ?

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## ghazi52

,.,.,.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605176180289798146

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## ghazi52

Karachi: IDEAS 2022 show at Clifton beach...

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## ghazi52

SSGN

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## ghazi52

Meet Major Abid Zaman from Special service group 'Al Zarar ATU' again led the SSG operation after earlier having been part of APS Peshawar terrorist attack clearance operation on 16 Dec 2014 .

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## ghazi52

,.,.,.
Pakistan Army's elite SSG Commandoes in their new camo..

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## ghazi52

COAS meeting whose soldiers gallantly acted in recent Bannu CTD complex operation as well as Aviation. COAS praised their indomitable spirit, sacrifices & commitment to the duty in various operations. COAS said, SSG is the pride of Nation & it had proved it’s metal over the years..

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## ghazi52

,.,.

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## Signalian

ghazi52 said:


> ,.,..,
> View attachment 906210


Not sure of the koh pema insignia coming under SSG solely

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## ghazi52

SSW

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## blain2

Yellow13 said:


> According to the link you sent, it was 30 positive cases in 1000 students. So not 60% however, amongst active duty US SOF post selection, there is a very significant amount of steroid and PED use especially the Rangers and SEALs, not so much amongst GBs.
> It is also very unlikely that they will implement tests for serving SOF. Too expensive and decreases their short-term capability.


There are multiple articles with various estimates of usage across the testing phases.

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## blain2

Goritoes said:


> What's the point of Camouflaged uniform if they are wearing a black Bullet proof vest ?


As counter-intuitive as it may seem, the black with the woodland pattern blends in quite alright in forested areas. There are dark, black undertones in the terrain with rocks and areas where lighting isn't optimal. After all, all these years, special forces have been operating wearing black boots and nobody has ever had a situation where the black boots or piece of clothing gave them away.

Also keep in mind that over 95% of the SSG missions are night-time as that is the mode of operation for most special forces around the world. A black or khaki load bearing vest makes no practical difference.

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## Goritoes

blain2 said:


> As counter-intuitive as it may seem, the black with the woodland pattern blends in quite alright in forested areas. There are dark, black undertones in the terrain with rocks and areas where lighting isn't optimal. After all, all these years, special forces have been operating wearing black boots and nobody has ever had a situation where the black boots or piece of clothing gave them away.
> 
> Also keep in mind that over 95% of the SSG missions are night-time as that is the mode of operation for most special forces around the world. A black or khaki load bearing vest makes no practical difference.


We have seen SSG wearing T-shirts with no vest or no helmets in Operations, we have seen them with black vest in broad day light, plus vest is not as small as boots which could be hard to see from distance. The color of the uniformed doesn't match with their gear or vest, no SF in the world does that, at least no top SF.


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## blain2

Goritoes said:


> We have seen SSG wearing T-shirts with no vest or no helmets in Operations, we have seen them with black vest in broad day light, plus vest is not as small as boots which could be hard to see from distance. The color of the uniformed doesn't match with their gear or vest, no SF in the world does that, at least no top SF.


TBH, yeh sab "nakhray" hain.

Or as they say, first world problems. No black t-shirt or load bearing vest has ever caused an SF operation to fail.

The black LBV in combat conditions can be adapted by simply smearing some mud on it. To this day, we use this method to conceal formation insignias from our vehicles etc. 

This is not to say that new equipment should not be provided to our special forces and infantry but it is not a huge issue either.

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## VCheng

blain2 said:


> This is not to say that new equipment should not be provided to our special forces and infantry but it is not a huge issue either.



It is simple: you do what you have to do with what you have, not what you wish you had.

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## ghazi52

Major General (R) Ameer Faisal Alavi was the first General Officer Commanding of the elite Special Service Group (SSG) of Pakistan Army. He renounced his British nationality to join Pakistan Army. He was also the first Pakistan Army officer, who captained the Armed Forces Skydiving Team (AFST) as a General Officer on 23 March, 2005.

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## Valiant

Khan_patriot said:


> I agree but there are bound to be outliers in any outfit with SOF being no exception. I know SSG dudes some of which are towering giants and absolute beasts but then again I’ve seen guys in the group from Chitral/ Gilgit who look frail and stand around 5ft 5 inches (which makes them all the more badass). Physique/ build doesn’t matter as long as they are capable of operating at the highest levels. I agree Caucasian/ Black genetics coupled with PEDs and SOF training regimen does produce absolute beasts in Western SOF.



Height and weight is largely irrelevant. We had guys in our platoon that were 5'5, as you mentioned who outran, out-lifted and out maneuvered the top cohort (some of whom were ranked wrestlers and fighters).

These same guys were shortlisted for the specialized units while the big behemoths were largely relegated to mundane duties. Height and weight may seem impressive but a lot of times, the seemingly harmless guys are the ones that stand out the most. Our platoon's best athletes/performers were all guys on the shorter scale, 5'8 and below with incredible cardiovascular capabilities coupled with remarkable agility and toughness.

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## blain2

Metal 0-1 said:


> Is this too much to ask for?
> View attachment 887931


~$18K on total kit is what the US spends on this stuff and other. We'd be lucky if we could even spend $5000 on our special forces troops.

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## VCheng

blain2 said:


> ~$18K on total kit is what the US spends on this stuff and other. We'd be lucky if we could even spend $5000 on our special forces troops.



5K is a decent budget, to be sure, given the much greater value options available to Pakistan compared to USA.


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## blain2

VCheng said:


> 5K is a decent budget, to be sure, given the much greater value options available to Pakistan compared to USA.


We probably spend close to $1500 per soldier on equipment. Night and day difference even with my $5K per capita.

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## VCheng

blain2 said:


> We probably spend close to $1500 per soldier on equipment. Night and day difference even with my $5K per capita.



Ah, the 5K figure was _aspirational_. Got it.


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## Metal 0-1

blain2 said:


> ~$18K on total kit is what the US spends on this stuff and other. We'd be lucky if we could even spend $5000 on our special forces troops.


Crye JPC 2.0 Plate Carrier 250 $
1500 $ Armour Plates
150$ belt setup
300-600$ Good Optics and Accessories

If they could boost the budget to 2500$ and use it properly we might see decent kit.


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## DESERT FIGHTER



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## ghazi52

'''SSG operatives with their Standard M4 rifles (5.56x45mm) at Shawal Rifles Mess, Waziristan - KPK''';;;

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## ghazi52

,.,.
Pakistani and Turkish Naval Special Forces took part in a weeklong joint exercise, Sitara-e-Hilal 2022, at the Naval Special Operations Training Centre (NSOTC), Karachi.

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## Kompromat

SSG is being issued with a new multicam uniform.

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## Goritoes

This 1 Pic is enough to show what's wrong with SSG, and why they perform poor. Look at SSG's helmet, looks like used 80's era Soviet Helmet, and vest has no coverage on the sides, and than look at the Turkish SF personnel and his gear set.

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## Kompromat

Goritoes said:


> This 1 Pic is enough to show what's wrong with SSG, and why they perform poor. Look at SSG's helmet, looks like used 80's era Soviet Helmet, and vest has no coverage on the sides, and than look at the Turkish SF personnel and his gear set.



SSG likes to operate light.

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## PanzerKiel

Goritoes said:


> This 1 Pic is enough to show what's wrong with SSG, and why they perform poor. Look at SSG's helmet, looks like used 80's era Soviet Helmet, and vest has no coverage on the sides, and than look at the Turkish SF personnel and his gear set.


That's SSG (N), not army guys.



PanzerKiel said:


> That's SSG (N), not army guys.


.... And that's a photo op pic. That's why they are wearing all sort of light and shiny insignias.

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## Goritoes

Horus said:


> SSG likes to operate light.


Shouldn't it be depending on the nature of the mission ? Ngl but I never saw a single Picture of SSG in heavy gear set compared to either SAS/SEALs or even the Turkish SF.



PanzerKiel said:


> That's SSG (N), not army guys.





PanzerKiel said:


> That's SSG (N), not army guys.


Well SSG's in combat gear is not that different, Saw pics here on PDF from the FATA areas where SSG geared up more like regular troops.


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## Kompromat

Goritoes said:


> Shouldn't it be depending on the nature of the mission ? Ngl but I never saw a single Picture of SSG in heavy gear set compared to either SAS/SEALs or even the Turkish SF.



Because SSG mostly operates in dominated battlespace or deep cover recon ops. Both applications don't require heavy gear.

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## Goritoes

Horus said:


> Because SSG mostly operates in dominated battlespace or deep cover recon ops. Both applications don't require heavy gear.


What about Operations within our own territory ? 




Given this was a very intense Operation and yet I see very compromising gear/uniform/protective gear, those helmets they are wearing I doubt do anything against a Rifle bullet let alone a sniper's.

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## AlKardai

Goritoes said:


> Shouldn't it be depending on the nature of the mission ? Ngl but I never saw a single Picture of SSG in heavy gear set compared to either SAS/SEALs or even the Turkish SF.
> 
> 
> 
> Well SSG's in combat gear is not that different, Saw pics here on PDF from the FATA areas where SSG geared up more like regular troops.



The cut helmet is a new FAST helmet design built to be lighter and better for SF. It isn’t a soviet helmet


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## Metal 0-1

Horus said:


> SSG likes to operate light.


More like don't have kit to wear

.


Go ahead call me an arm chair quarterback

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## Kompromat

Goritoes said:


> What about Operations within our own territory ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given this was a very intense Operation and yet I see very compromising gear/uniform/protective gear, those helmets they are wearing I doubt do anything against a Rifle bullet let alone a sniper's.



For this the SSG has adequate gear now.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Horus said:


> For this the SSG has adequate gear now.


I showed by bro, this thread n we laughed alot. 

Btwn thats his pic jumpin from c130.

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## Kompromat

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I showed by bro, this thread n we laughed alot.
> 
> Btwn thats his pic jumpin from c130.



Which pic?


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## RescueRanger

Goritoes said:


> Shouldn't it be depending on the nature of the mission ? Ngl but I never saw a single Picture of SSG in heavy gear set compared to either SAS/SEALs or even the Turkish SF.
> 
> 
> 
> Well SSG's in combat gear is not that different, Saw pics here on PDF from the FATA areas where SSG geared up more like regular troops.


A dear friend Late Maj(R) Muhammad Akram ex SSG said when the US came to do a river crossing exercise with SSG, the SSG guys wore their BDU and and US who were kitted to the nines made fun of them saying you guys will die of hypothermia.

About 20 mins after the river crossing there was a run with full kit to the other side of the dam, the Americans who were weighed down by their now soaking and heavy kit were gasping due to hyperventilation 😂.

There is a reason SSG guys do the things they do. Years of experience in making do with the “minimum” has made them so BAMF’.

Similarly specialist SOF pilots came to train Pakistan Aviation pilots for night ops “flying with NVG’s” and asked the pilots how have you guys been able to do this without NVGs for so long…?

My late uncle Col (R) Ehsan Niazi simply replied, swiftly but surely 😂. 

People discount Pakistan Army too quickly because we don’t have all the gizmos and gadgets but what we have is battle tested experience.

There is a saying in professional circles “all the gear - no idea”. 






Compare this ANA commando from 1Bat to SSG operators…






Our boys don’t need all the Gucci gear on display, because they do have “an idea”. 

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. 😊

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## RescueRanger

Goritoes said:


> What about Operations within our own territory ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given this was a very intense Operation and yet I see very compromising gear/uniform/protective gear, those helmets they are wearing I doubt do anything against a Rifle bullet let alone a sniper's.


Hi, the vests you see are made by Lyra and are rated to NIJ level III with level IV strike plates.





NIJ levels explained:







The helmet is a BH A-140 made by GIDS I. Pakistan and is Kevlar ballistic helmet modelled on the PASGT helmet, fast cut ACH are placing these for the SSG and other SOF in Pakistan.

The current helmet issued to Pakistan Army offers a reasonable level of protection

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## Khan_patriot

RescueRanger said:


> A dear friend Late Maj(R) Muhammad Akram ex SSG said when the US came to do a river crossing exercise with SSG, the SSG guys wore their BDU and and US who were kitted to the nines made fun of them saying you guys will die of hypothermia.
> 
> About 20 mins after the river crossing there was a run with full kit to the other side of the dam, the Americans who were weighed down by their now soaking and heavy kit were gasping due to hyperventilation 😂.
> 
> There is a reason SSG guys do the things they do. Years of experience in making do with the “minimum” has made them so BAMF’.


This is exactly what the armchair analyst need to consider, our Army in general and SSG in particular have pulled up straight up miracles particularly in the WoT with limited gear, support and air cover. Tell any western army to make do with what our boys do they’d straight up refuse to operate. 
My statement is not to say we don’t need the best things we can get for our boys, they deserve each and every penny but they will forever have my respect for making do with what they are provided.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Horus said:


> Which pic?





DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 907986

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## DESERT FIGHTER

RescueRanger said:


> A dear friend Late Maj(R) Muhammad Akram ex SSG said when the US came to do a river crossing exercise with SSG, the SSG guys wore their BDU and and US who were kitted to the nines made fun of them saying you guys will die of hypothermia.
> 
> About 20 mins after the river crossing there was a run with full kit to the other side of the dam, the Americans who were weighed down by their now soaking and heavy kit were gasping due to hyperventilation 😂.
> 
> There is a reason SSG guys do the things they do. Years of experience in making do with the “minimum” has made them so BAMF’.
> 
> Similarly specialist SOF pilots came to train Pakistan Aviation pilots for night ops “flying with NVG’s” and asked the pilots how have you guys been able to do this without NVGs for so long…?
> 
> My late uncle Col (R) Ehsan Niazi simply replied, swiftly but surely 😂.
> 
> People discount Pakistan Army too quickly because we don’t have all the gizmos and gadgets but what we have is battle tested experience.
> 
> There is a saying in professional circles “all the gear - no idea”.
> 
> View attachment 908253
> 
> 
> Compare this ANA commando from 1Bat to SSG operators…
> 
> View attachment 908254
> 
> 
> Our boys don’t need all the Gucci gear on display, because they do have “an idea”.
> 
> Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. 😊


A tripod on an M4 and a million mags. Thats rambo rambo Jan rambo coachroach killa.

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## Path-Finder



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## ghazi52

,.,.
Members of SSG(N) firing 2 different weapons with different cartridges.
Left: FN Herstal's SCAR-17 (5.56x45mm) with iron sights Right: CZ-BREN 2 (7.62x39mm) with iron sights.
This snap was taken when PA was testing different calibers for a new generation rifle.

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## farooqbhai007

RescueRanger said:


> A dear friend Late Maj(R) Muhammad Akram ex SSG said when the US came to do a river crossing exercise with SSG, the SSG guys wore their BDU and and US who were kitted to the nines made fun of them saying you guys will die of hypothermia.
> 
> About 20 mins after the river crossing there was a run with full kit to the other side of the dam, the Americans who were weighed down by their now soaking and heavy kit were gasping due to hyperventilation 😂.
> 
> There is a reason SSG guys do the things they do. Years of experience in making do with the “minimum” has made them so BAMF’.
> 
> Similarly specialist SOF pilots came to train Pakistan Aviation pilots for night ops “flying with NVG’s” and asked the pilots how have you guys been able to do this without NVGs for so long…?
> 
> My late uncle Col (R) Ehsan Niazi simply replied, swiftly but surely 😂.
> 
> People discount Pakistan Army too quickly because we don’t have all the gizmos and gadgets but what we have is battle tested experience.
> 
> There is a saying in professional circles “all the gear - no idea”.
> 
> View attachment 908253
> 
> 
> Compare this ANA commando from 1Bat to SSG operators…
> 
> View attachment 908254
> 
> 
> Our boys don’t need all the Gucci gear on display, because they do have “an idea”.
> 
> Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. 😊


yea , atleast they adopted new camo now


----------



## Goritoes

RescueRanger said:


> A dear friend Late Maj(R) Muhammad Akram ex SSG said when the US came to do a river crossing exercise with SSG, the SSG guys wore their BDU and and US who were kitted to the nines made fun of them saying you guys will die of hypothermia.
> 
> About 20 mins after the river crossing there was a run with full kit to the other side of the dam, the Americans who were weighed down by their now soaking and heavy kit were gasping due to hyperventilation 😂.
> 
> There is a reason SSG guys do the things they do. Years of experience in making do with the “minimum” has made them so BAMF’.
> 
> Similarly specialist SOF pilots came to train Pakistan Aviation pilots for night ops “flying with NVG’s” and asked the pilots how have you guys been able to do this without NVGs for so long…?
> 
> My late uncle Col (R) Ehsan Niazi simply replied, swiftly but surely 😂.
> 
> People discount Pakistan Army too quickly because we don’t have all the gizmos and gadgets but what we have is battle tested experience.
> 
> There is a saying in professional circles “all the gear - no idea”.
> 
> View attachment 908253
> 
> 
> Compare this ANA commando from 1Bat to SSG operators…
> 
> View attachment 908254
> 
> 
> Our boys don’t need all the Gucci gear on display, because they do have “an idea”.
> 
> Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. 😊


Having poor gear, also puts SSG among the few SF's in the world which loses men in almost every operation they conducted. American's or British SF's are among the best and lost very few men in their Operations, and although they have Air support but their gear on soldier can help them survive damage taken in the operations, when I SSG and their Gear/uniform in the operations its hard not to think that why they lose men, their helmet's or vest looks that they are bought from Lunda bazar, that Picture I posted from Panjgur Operation, just look at the SSG and tell me that even a small pistol bullet can easily penetrate their vest's, no glasses to protect their eyes or improve their vision in the dry muddy terrain, I am no expert in SF Operations but common sense bhi koi cheez hoti hai. SSG can wear light uniforms for better maneuverability but this won't work in all situations. 

Bro seriously you are comparing SSG with ANA Commando ? Itne bure din a gaye hai ab SSG ke ? Post a Picture from German/French/Turkey/US/UK SFs soldier and than compare them with SSG, no offense but SSG performance in past many years have down and they lost many man, reason could be gear or poor planning before the operation or over confidence, take your pick. I would be happy if SSG conducts operations and neutralize enemy without losing a single man, Rest are all excuses to me.



RescueRanger said:


> Hi, the vests you see are made by Lyra and are rated to NIJ level III with level IV strike plates.
> View attachment 908258
> 
> 
> NIJ levels explained:
> 
> View attachment 908259
> 
> 
> 
> The helmet is a BH A-140 made by GIDS I. Pakistan and is Kevlar ballistic helmet modelled on the PASGT helmet, fast cut ACH are placing these for the SSG and other SOF in Pakistan.
> 
> The current helmet issued to Pakistan Army offers a reasonable level of protection


Reasonable level of protection, yaar Helmet ki Halaat dekhi hai picture mai ? Training and Operation alike the Helmet looks like it has seen better days in 80's. There has to be a reason why they lose man in almost every operation they conduct while we have seen many SFs' that operate in similar environment such as in Iraq/Syria/Libya and almost every SF has improved their performance, heck even Iraqi SFs after their initial defeat by ISIS has recover and has conducted many operations without losing men.

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## RescueRanger

Goritoes said:


> Having poor gear, also puts SSG among the few SF's in the world which loses men in almost every operation they conducted. American's or British SF's are among the best and lost very few men in their Operations, and although they have Air support but their gear on soldier can help them survive damage taken in the operations, when I SSG and their Gear/uniform in the operations its hard not to think that why they lose men, their helmet's or vest looks that they are bought from Lunda bazar, that Picture I posted from Panjgur Operation, just look at the SSG and tell me that even a small pistol bullet can easily penetrate their vest's, no glasses to protect their eyes or improve their vision in the dry muddy terrain, I am no expert in SF Operations but common sense bhi koi cheez hoti hai. SSG can wear light uniforms for better maneuverability but this won't work in all situations.
> 
> Bro seriously you are comparing SSG with ANA Commando ? Itne bure din a gaye hai ab SSG ke ? Post a Picture from German/French/Turkey/US/UK SFs soldier and than compare them with SSG, no offense but SSG performance in past many years have down and they lost many man, reason could be gear or poor planning before the operation or over confidence, take your pick. I would be happy if SSG conducts operations and neutralize enemy without losing a single man, Rest are all excuses to me.
> 
> 
> Reasonable level of protection, yaar Helmet ki Halaat dekhi hai picture mai ? Training and Operation alike the Helmet looks like it has seen better days in 80's. There has to be a reason why they lose man in almost every operation they conduct while we have seen many SFs' that operate in similar environment such as in Iraq/Syria/Libya and almost every SF has improved their performance, heck even Iraqi SFs after their initial defeat by ISIS has recover and has conducted many operations without losing men.





> Having poor gear
Click to expand...

1. Okay I understand your heart is in the right place but let me stop you there. The load vests are Blackhawk Omega and Blackhawk Omega Elites. Blackhawk is not Lunda bazaar.

The riggers belts are made by .511, the battle belts when worn are Cyre Precision (google that brand) its a $300 USD belt.

The combat BDU are made in Pakistan but the technical fleece is made by Cyre. 

The body armour is NIJIII with NIJ IV inserts. More than capable of stopping upto 7.62 rounds. 



> American's or British SF's are among the best and lost very few men in their Operations
Click to expand...

Come on yaar, seriously? Horses for courses, let’s not go down this road because it’s rather demeaning to start comparisons. Honestly, to me our boys are the best. To Americans it’s the SEALS or delta, the Brits will say that SAS are the best yada yada. 



> lost very few men in their Operations
Click to expand...

Between 2001 and 2018 USSOCOM reported 369 casualties of special forces operators[1].



> no glasses to protect their eyes


Yes WileyX look cool and everything but very few operators use them outside of photo ops . That’s not to say what you so doesn’t carry merit. I’ve always been a fan of PPE. 



> SSG can wear light uniforms for better maneuverability but this won't work in all situations.


Agreed, but at the same time they know what they are doing. It’s like when someone comes to me and says why do you carry an NP Airway and not an ET Tube in your bag ( I know what works for me) 😊



> Bro seriously you are comparing SSG with ANA Commando
Click to expand...

1st BAT ANA we’re trained by US Navy Seals. Just saying 😊



> SSG performance in past many years


Compared to what? Pakistan has been fighting the longest counter insurgency operation in recent history thanks to GWOT. Why should I compare our guys to SAS or Seals? So they compare our guys to theirs? Please yar. 



> reason could be gear or poor planning before the operation or over confidence


The reason is such operations have an inherent degree of risk which no matter how you slice it cannot be mitigated. It is the y( the unknown quantity) the unknown factor. Intel is never 100% - no plan survives first contact with the enemy. 



> I would be happy if SSG conducts operations and neutralize enemy without losing a single man


InshaAllah- but then again it’s not you or me putting on that uniform knowing I’m running to the threat when others run away. So 🤷‍♂️



> Training and Operation alike the Helmet looks like it has seen better days in 80's


No ballistic helmet offers 100% protection my brother. And this heet works that is why the US Army still use it:





That said you will see a lot more F.A.S.T ACH in use among SSG nowadays.

All in all you make a valid points but I disagree with the thrust of your argument that gear = good. But where possible I think there is room for improvement.

After all we all what the same thing for Pakistan. 😊



[1]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32039975/

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## farooqbhai007

RescueRanger said:


> 1. Okay I understand your heart is in the right place but let me stop you there. The load vests are Blackhawk Omega and Blackhawk Omega Elites. Blackhawk is not Lunda bazaar.
> 
> The riggers belts are made by .511, the battle belts when worn are Cyre Precision (google that brand) its a $300 USD belt.
> 
> The combat BDU are made in Pakistan but the technical fleece is made by Cyre.
> 
> The body armour is NIJIII with NIJ IV inserts. More than capable of stopping upto 7.62 rounds.
> 
> 
> Come on yaar, seriously? Horses for courses, let’s not go down this road because it’s rather demeaning to start comparisons. Honestly, to me our boys are the best. To Americans it’s the SEALS or delta, the Brits will say that SAS are the best yada yada.
> 
> 
> Between 2001 and 2018 USSOCOM reported 369 casualties of special forces operators[1].
> 
> 
> Yes WileyX look cool and everything but very few operators use them outside of photo ops . That’s not to say what you so doesn’t carry merit. I’ve always been a fan of PPE.
> 
> 
> Agreed, but at the same time they know what they are doing. It’s like when someone comes to me and says why do you carry an NP Airway and not an ET Tube in your bag ( I know what works for me) 😊
> 
> 
> 1st BAT ANA we’re trained by US Navy Seals. Just saying 😊
> 
> 
> Compared to what? Pakistan has been fighting the longest counter insurgency operation in recent history thanks to GWOT. Why should I compare our guys to SAS or Seals? So they compare our guys to theirs? Please yar.
> 
> 
> The reason is such operations have an inherent degree of risk which no matter how you slice it cannot be mitigated. It is the y( the unknown quantity) the unknown factor. Intel is never 100% - no plan survives first contact with the enemy.
> 
> 
> InshaAllah- but then again it’s not you or me putting on that uniform knowing I’m running to the threat when others run away. So 🤷‍♂️
> 
> 
> No ballistic helmet offers 100% protection my brother. And this heet works that is why the US Army still use it:
> View attachment 908413
> 
> 
> That said you will see a lot more F.A.S.T ACH in use among SSG nowadays.
> 
> All in all you make a valid points but I disagree with the thrust of your argument that gear = good. But where possible I think there is room for improvement.
> 
> After all we all what the same thing for Pakistan. 😊
> 
> 
> 
> [1]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32039975/


Won't have any effect, some peoples minds can't be changed, dude is gonna quote u again with that but saar they don't have new equipment again.

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## Metal 0-1

RescueRanger said:


> Blackhawk is not Lunda bazaar.
> 
> The riggers belts are made by .511, the battle belts when worn are Cyre Precision (google that brand) its a $300 USD belt.


Blackhawk is basically a landa bazar and 5.11 are in same category.

Also crye gear. You wish dude.

Stop capping dude



RescueRanger said:


> That said you will see a lot more F.A.S.T ACH in use among SSG nowadays.


Also they the use MICH 2001s. High Cut ACH are US Marine thing



RescueRanger said:


> That said you will see a lot more F.A.S.T ACH in use among SSG nowadays.


Also they the use MICH 2001s. High Cut ACH are US Marine thing


----------



## Amaa'n

Metal 0-1 said:


> Blackhawk is basically a landa bazar and 5.11 are in same category.
> 
> Also crye gear. You wish dude.
> 
> Stop capping dude
> 
> 
> Also they the use MICH 2001s. High Cut ACH are US Marine thing
> 
> 
> Also they the use MICH 2001s. High Cut ACH are US Marine thing


Bro, am with you and understand your POV. But you need to understand it always come down to mission requirements. Sometime it is better to pack light then go Rambo.

Couple of different scenarios and how gear changes with mission:

1) CAG during exercise in San Antonio, TX - it's pretty much standard kit for fast infil & exfil. Mostly suited for CT, Kill or Capture, S&D kinda Ops.














2) SMU / PMCs in Ukraine and second pic is of Air Force CCT: All packing very light since they are on Long Range Recon mission:













3) Local PD, FBI HRT during Hostage rescue - notice the heavy armor on shoulders










CTSFO


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## ghazi52

.,.,
Turkish Navy Ship TCG BURGAZADA visited Karachi Port and participated in bilateral naval Exercise TURGUTREIS - VII with Pakistan Navy.

The exercise comprised of various naval operations including defence against Asymmetric Attacks, Visit Board Search & Seizure (VBSS), Air Defence Exercises and Joint Coordinated Patrol.


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## Samurai_assassin

What are the other two branches SOW & SOG?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Samurai_assassin said:


> What are the other two branches SOW & SOG?


Part of Frontier Corps KP & Balochistan.


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## AlKardai

ghazi52 said:


> .,.,
> Turkish Navy Ship TCG BURGAZADA visited Karachi Port and participated in bilateral naval Exercise TURGUTREIS - VII with Pakistan Navy.
> 
> The exercise comprised of various naval operations including defence against Asymmetric Attacks, Visit Board Search & Seizure (VBSS), Air Defence Exercises and Joint Coordinated Patrol.



See the bottom pic? That’s all I ask for.

Why can’t the roll out the same crye vests to everyone? I’m just speaking in terms of uniformity-

Edit: I’m not talking about NVGs or all the specialist gear. Just asking for the SSG to have a standard of all having very similar looking vests/body armour/helmets/helmet covers throughout the entire unit, that also looks professional


----------



## blain2

AlKardai said:


> See the bottom pic? That’s all I ask for.
> 
> Why can’t the roll out the same crye vests to everyone? I’m just speaking in terms of uniformity-
> 
> Edit: I’m not talking about NVGs or all the specialist gear. Just asking for the SSG to have a standard of all having very similar looking vests/body armour/helmets/helmet covers throughout the entire unit, that also looks professional


Got money?


----------



## Metal 0-1

Amaa'n said:


> Bro, am with you and understand your POV. But you need to understand it always come down to mission requirements. Sometime it is better to pack light then go Rambo.
> 
> Couple of different scenarios and how gear changes with mission:
> 
> 1) CAG during exercise in San Antonio, TX - it's pretty much standard kit for fast infil & exfil. Mostly suited for CT, Kill or Capture, S&D kinda Ops.
> 
> View attachment 908501
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2) SMU / PMCs in Ukraine and second pic is of Air Force CCT: All packing very light since they are on Long Range Recon mission:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3) Local PD, FBI HRT during Hostage rescue - notice the heavy armor on shoulders
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CTSFO


My brother in Allah. I'm not talking about mission statement and mission requirements.

They way you wear your kit also comes down to doctrine.

I'm just correcting our esteemed colleague claims about Blackhawk and 5.11 being best companies out there and Them using Crye Precision(chuckle) and FAST ACH helmets

Let me make myself clear.


Skills over Gear. Gain Skills, Gear comes along the way.

But if you gonna use leather boots, Blackhawk vests, and use worn out carbines you might need to procure some new stuff.


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## AlKardai

blain2 said:


> Got money?



I asked for uniformity, bloody hell.

We have a booming textiles industry, so providing BDUs for each SSG isn’t even that expensive of a task


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## Great Janjua

AlKardai said:


> I asked for uniformity, bloody hell.
> 
> We have a booming textiles industry, so providing BDUs for each SSG isn’t even that expensive of a task


All we ask for is basic protection like a good helmet with proper straps not fckin strings dangling about, A proper vest with good protection and utility not a showpiece or a LBV acting like yeh mard e mujahid ko goli nahi chu sakti all this crap mentality leads to deaths even poor African nations are starting to procure better gear for their troops yeh to apne elite troops ko 90s ka helmet hath mein de kar kehte beta ab tu ja lar. Just look at that pic from the Balochistan operation earlier this year by SSG kisi ka helmet lamak raha hai aur kisi ki vest how do you expect soldiers to fight to their full capacity with such pile of shite.

Yeh same scenes mein pichlay 5 saal se dekh raha hu aur kya qayamat tak wait kare.

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## Goritoes

RescueRanger said:


> Come on yaar, seriously? Horses for courses, let’s not go down this road because it’s rather demeaning to start comparisons. Honestly, to me our boys are the best. To Americans it’s the SEALS or delta, the Brits will say that SAS are the best yada yada.


Oh Janab, ese tu duniya ki har Military baraber ho jati hai, you don't rate a SF on patriotism but on their performance. Now if you say SSG is best than you have to prove it, with their performance in the Operations, and what I see is that SSG lost many men in Operations. I don't care what they wear, heck they can wear Salwar kameez and Sheeshay wala Nara but what I care is that in Operation they kill the enemy without losing a single men. 



RescueRanger said:


> Between 2001 and 2018 USSOCOM reported 369 casualties of special forces operators[1].


How many SSG we have lost since 2001 ? US SF were not only fighting with Taliban/AQ but also ANA, there are several incidents of Friendly fire where Afghan solider go crazy and killed a bunch of his own trainer, our SSG numbers are high without a single friendly fire incident. 



RescueRanger said:


> Yes WileyX look cool and everything but very few operators use them outside of photo ops . That’s not to say what you so doesn’t carry merit. I’ve always been a fan of PPE.


Bhai its not about looking cool, I shared a Picture from literally a Operation, many pics I can post here from FATA operations where SSG operators are without glasses in a dry muddy environment, now you know a lot about Military Please tell if a solider is taking fire from Terrorist, a gush of wind can literally disturb his focus, damage his eyes, block vision and even put him in compromising position, Bhai my reason for bringing SAS and SEALS are not for PeePee measuring contest, every reputable SF used basic protective gear because it can save a life of a Commando, I rather have my Soldier look shiny COD bots but in the end if they come out alive that's good, rather than look all JAN RAMBO but dead. 



RescueRanger said:


> Agreed, but at the same time they know what they are doing.


I hope so, but their performance/Gear in Operations points otherwise, I hope they are not just focus on increasing the numbers of SSG operatives rather than focus on their training and performance. 



RescueRanger said:


> 1st BAT ANA we’re trained by US Navy Seals. Just saying


Trained is the key word, you can bring the best SSG trainer for me I would still be noob, so would you say the SSG trainer sucks ? Afghans are nothing but hashish smoking soldiers who had no interest in fighting the taliban, they are disgrace to any Standing Army let alone SF. 



RescueRanger said:


> Compared to what? Pakistan has been fighting the longest counter insurgency operation in recent history thanks to GWOT. Why should I compare our guys to SAS or Seals? So they compare our guys to theirs? Please yar.


Compared to other active SF in the world, Turks are Fighting PKK for decades, US in Afghanistan/Iraq, UK as well. Our guys doesn't need to compete with anyone they just have to be alive after operations, that's all that matters. Plus we are indeed seeing the some of the toughest insurgency but wouldn't you expect a Army/SF after years of fighting to learn a thing or two ? we are still losing men with horrible ration to the terrorist, just yesterday or so we lost 3 soldiers for 1-2 Terrorists. That's terrible, now SSG is different and I agree many of their Operations we will never hear about, but those which does becomes highlighted in the media, the news often is the same that SSG clear the building lose 1 or 2 men, SSG killed terrorists but 2 died etc



RescueRanger said:


> The reason is such operations have an inherent degree of risk which no matter how you slice it cannot be mitigated. It is the y( the unknown quantity) the unknown factor. Intel is never 100% - no plan survives first contact with the enemy.


Of course Intel can't be 100%, but I bet SF does trained themselves with keeping that factor in mind don't they ? 



RescueRanger said:


> InshaAllah- but then again it’s not you or me putting on that uniform knowing I’m running to the threat when others run away. So


For that they have my respect, but here we need to avoid been Jazbati, cause Jazbaat se Jungen nai jeeti jati. We are losing this battle no matter how much you and others try to pretend, and one big factor of us losing is the poor performance of Army/ Intelligence agency sucks, no will/ horrible or no SOP, we hardly learn anything from past mistakes etc



RescueRanger said:


> No ballistic helmet offers 100% protection my brother. And this heet works that is why the US Army still use it:


Bhai if I am not wrong that's a marine, and not even the SF of Marine, Just a Trainy. Our boys are in Operation using that helmet that doesn't even look it fits their heads properly. Honestly if I was in SSG and saw that gear they want me to wear and fight, I'd quit on day 1. 






This is Turkish Police SF unit, he is wearing a better equip than SSG, Look at his helmet/its quality/how it covers part of his ears, Look at his vest perfectly camo with his uniform, knee/elbow protections, even his shoulders look better protected. Look at the soldier and than see SSG, well I should stop here because what I will say next will upset you and others.

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## RescueRanger

AlKardai said:


> See the bottom pic? That’s all I ask for.
> 
> Why can’t the roll out the same crye vests to everyone? I’m just speaking in terms of uniformity-
> 
> Edit: I’m not talking about NVGs or all the specialist gear. Just asking for the SSG to have a standard of all having very similar looking vests/body armour/helmets/helmet covers throughout the entire unit, that also looks professional


Lol what a childish thing to say. It costs $$$ my brother. $$$



Goritoes said:


> Oh Janab, ese tu duniya ki har Military baraber ho jati hai, you don't rate a SF on patriotism but on their performance. Now if you say SSG is best than you have to prove it, with their performance in the Operations, and what I see is that SSG lost many men in Operations. I don't care what they wear, heck they can wear Salwar kameez and Sheeshay wala Nara but what I care is that in Operation they kill the enemy without losing a single men.
> 
> 
> How many SSG we have lost since 2001 ? US SF were not only fighting with Taliban/AQ but also ANA, there are several incidents of Friendly fire where Afghan solider go crazy and killed a bunch of his own trainer, our SSG numbers are high without a single friendly fire incident.
> 
> 
> Bhai its not about looking cool, I shared a Picture from literally a Operation, many pics I can post here from FATA operations where SSG operators are without glasses in a dry muddy environment, now you know a lot about Military Please tell if a solider is taking fire from Terrorist, a gush of wind can literally disturb his focus, damage his eyes, block vision and even put him in compromising position, Bhai my reason for bringing SAS and SEALS are not for PeePee measuring contest, every reputable SF used basic protective gear because it can save a life of a Commando, I rather have my Soldier look shiny COD bots but in the end if they come out alive that's good, rather than look all JAN RAMBO but dead.
> 
> 
> I hope so, but their performance/Gear in Operations points otherwise, I hope they are not just focus on increasing the numbers of SSG operatives rather than focus on their training and performance.
> 
> 
> Trained is the key word, you can bring the best SSG trainer for me I would still be noob, so would you say the SSG trainer sucks ? Afghans are nothing but hashish smoking soldiers who had no interest in fighting the taliban, they are disgrace to any Standing Army let alone SF.
> 
> 
> Compared to other active SF in the world, Turks are Fighting PKK for decades, US in Afghanistan/Iraq, UK as well. Our guys doesn't need to compete with anyone they just have to be alive after operations, that's all that matters. Plus we are indeed seeing the some of the toughest insurgency but wouldn't you expect a Army/SF after years of fighting to learn a thing or two ? we are still losing men with horrible ration to the terrorist, just yesterday or so we lost 3 soldiers for 1-2 Terrorists. That's terrible, now SSG is different and I agree many of their Operations we will never hear about, but those which does becomes highlighted in the media, the news often is the same that SSG clear the building lose 1 or 2 men, SSG killed terrorists but 2 died etc
> 
> 
> Of course Intel can't be 100%, but I bet SF does trained themselves with keeping that factor in mind don't they ?
> 
> 
> For that they have my respect, but here we need to avoid been Jazbati, cause Jazbaat se Jungen nai jeeti jati. We are losing this battle no matter how much you and others try to pretend, and one big factor of us losing is the poor performance of Army/ Intelligence agency sucks, no will/ horrible or no SOP, we hardly learn anything from past mistakes etc
> 
> 
> Bhai if I am not wrong that's a marine, and not even the SF of Marine, Just a Trainy. Our boys are in Operation using that helmet that doesn't even look it fits their heads properly. Honestly if I was in SSG and saw that gear they want me to wear and fight, I'd quit on day 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Turkish Police SF unit, he is wearing a better equip than SSG, Look at his helmet/its quality/how it covers part of his ears, Look at his vest perfectly camo with his uniform, knee/elbow protections, even his shoulders look better protected. Look at the soldier and than see SSG, well I should stop here because what I will say next will upset you and others.


😂

Let’s agree to disagree. Because again you have made an effort to post a detailed reply.

I’ve already posted a detailed thread on the issue. I feel this is the problem with people who have not served in a uniformed organisation in a developing country.

They have rather unrealistic expectations.

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## AlKardai

RescueRanger said:


> Lol what a childish thing to say. It costs $$$ my brother. $$$


I only ask for matching bloody BDUs


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## blain2

AlKardai said:


> I asked for uniformity, bloody hell.
> 
> We have a booming textiles industry, so providing BDUs for each SSG isn’t even that expensive of a task


I understand that but they have standard uniforms. However, when in the field on operations, nobody regulates that for the SSG. This was a gripe that many regular officers had of the SSG cadres that they don't dress, have the same turn out as of the regular army per regulations. However, due to the missions assigned, many days in the field, some of these regulations are relaxed.

On parade or during demos etc. at their home bases (Cherat, Tarbela, Peshawar etc.) they wear regulation clothing and use equipment available as per the TO&E of their unit. Could this equipment be more modern? Sure, but that is where you need more money.

Our defense budget (that everyone cries over) barely covers the upkeep of the troops and formations. It leaves very little for capital acquisitions (even finding funding for something like upgraded armor etc. is challenging. Were it not for MNNA status, the equipment would be even more dated). Keep in mind that even the carbines of US origin in use by the SSG are of a very basic type with very rudimentary optics added. This was all done to keep the cost down for PA. In general, PAF has done better for SSW (because the outfit is much smaller than SSG) with their smart-acquisition strategy etc.

Equipment aside, experience wise our boys are as good as any others. Instead of looking to import stuff all the time, our own good-for-nothing local industry needs to do better. The Turks crossed the $4B annual defence export threshold in 2022 and our idiots are still harping over exports of G-3s and not able to get past $1B. Just another case of underperforming manpower and economy.

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## blain2

Goritoes said:


> Oh Janab, ese tu duniya ki har Military baraber ho jati hai, you don't rate a SF on patriotism but on their performance. Now if you say SSG is best than you have to prove it, with their performance in the Operations, and what I see is that SSG lost many men in Operations. I don't care what they wear, heck they can wear Salwar kameez and Sheeshay wala Nara but what I care is that in Operation they kill the enemy without losing a single men.
> 
> 
> How many SSG we have lost since 2001 ? US SF were not only fighting with Taliban/AQ but also ANA, there are several incidents of Friendly fire where Afghan solider go crazy and killed a bunch of his own trainer, our SSG numbers are high without a single friendly fire incident.
> 
> 
> Bhai its not about looking cool, I shared a Picture from literally a Operation, many pics I can post here from FATA operations where SSG operators are without glasses in a dry muddy environment, now you know a lot about Military Please tell if a solider is taking fire from Terrorist, a gush of wind can literally disturb his focus, damage his eyes, block vision and even put him in compromising position, Bhai my reason for bringing SAS and SEALS are not for PeePee measuring contest, every reputable SF used basic protective gear because it can save a life of a Commando, I rather have my Soldier look shiny COD bots but in the end if they come out alive that's good, rather than look all JAN RAMBO but dead.
> 
> 
> I hope so, but their performance/Gear in Operations points otherwise, I hope they are not just focus on increasing the numbers of SSG operatives rather than focus on their training and performance.
> 
> 
> Trained is the key word, you can bring the best SSG trainer for me I would still be noob, so would you say the SSG trainer sucks ? Afghans are nothing but hashish smoking soldiers who had no interest in fighting the taliban, they are disgrace to any Standing Army let alone SF.
> 
> 
> Compared to other active SF in the world, Turks are Fighting PKK for decades, US in Afghanistan/Iraq, UK as well. Our guys doesn't need to compete with anyone they just have to be alive after operations, that's all that matters. Plus we are indeed seeing the some of the toughest insurgency but wouldn't you expect a Army/SF after years of fighting to learn a thing or two ? we are still losing men with horrible ration to the terrorist, just yesterday or so we lost 3 soldiers for 1-2 Terrorists. That's terrible, now SSG is different and I agree many of their Operations we will never hear about, but those which does becomes highlighted in the media, the news often is the same that SSG clear the building lose 1 or 2 men, SSG killed terrorists but 2 died etc
> 
> 
> Of course Intel can't be 100%, but I bet SF does trained themselves with keeping that factor in mind don't they ?
> 
> 
> For that they have my respect, but here we need to avoid been Jazbati, cause Jazbaat se Jungen nai jeeti jati. We are losing this battle no matter how much you and others try to pretend, and one big factor of us losing is the poor performance of Army/ Intelligence agency sucks, no will/ horrible or no SOP, we hardly learn anything from past mistakes etc
> 
> 
> Bhai if I am not wrong that's a marine, and not even the SF of Marine, Just a Trainy. Our boys are in Operation using that helmet that doesn't even look it fits their heads properly. Honestly if I was in SSG and saw that gear they want me to wear and fight, I'd quit on day 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Turkish Police SF unit, he is wearing a better equip than SSG, Look at his helmet/its quality/how it covers part of his ears, Look at his vest perfectly camo with his uniform, knee/elbow protections, even his shoulders look better protected. Look at the soldier and than see SSG, well I should stop here because what I will say next will upset you and others.


Why is there such an over-pivot on the looks?

We lose more special operations troops because we don't go into each operation with an overmatch of capability in the air and ground. We simply cannot afford it.
We lose more people because we have them deployed in remote areas with very little available by way of constant air and ground support. US and Western forces have never operated like this. If their chap goes down, there is immediate casevac. If there is rocket/mortar fire on their positions, they can call upon air strikes/heli strikes immediately (in most cases). We don't have these luxuries. When they travel, they are usually in MRAPs where we can barely afford a 50 of those vehicles.

When they go into operations against the local population, their #1 worry is protection of their own force. We consider the same but there is a more significant impact of collateral damage so we have to take greater risks in our operations (which is not to say collateral damage does not occur in our own operations, that is just the reality of military operations).

So these comparisons aren't apples to apples. You could equip an SOF soldier with better body armor and better helmet and rifle with smart optics but he isn't going to survive an IED attack or hit and run on his remote post because he has no immediate recourse to calling in air support etc. These are the realities, constraints of our operating environment. We have posts in remote areas which are recce'd by the TTP/BLA for weeks and then they attack these posts with significant manpower/firepower. There is only so much that can be done unless we have a very robust ability to hit back immediately and overwhelmingly which would act as a deterrent and thus resulting in greater protection for our own troops.

Comparing Turkish equipment is also misleading. As I posted above, just their exports are north of $4B which offset a lot of costs for their own military/paramilitary. On top of that, Turks still benefit from close interaction with NATO and technology transfer. We get none of that. We could not even afford to upgrade the POF manufacturing facilities for G-3 production to take on development of a new rifle (it was an $800M investment).

As such our wishlists should be calibrated with 50 other things needed. We are talking about infantry and SF equipment needing upgrades, artillery, armor etc. all have needs for upgrades and modernization. Where is the money for all of this?

I will end by saying that not one member here would want SSG to operate with sub-optimal gear but we just need to be mindful of the prevailing affordability issues.

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## CLUMSY

Metal 0-1 said:


> My brother in Allah. I'm not talking about mission statement and mission requirements.
> 
> They way you wear your kit also comes down to doctrine.
> 
> I'm just correcting our esteemed colleague claims about Blackhawk and 5.11 being best companies out there and Them using Crye Precision(chuckle) and FAST ACH helmets
> 
> Let me make myself clear.
> 
> 
> Skills over Gear. Gain Skills, Gear comes along the way.
> 
> But if you gonna use leather boots, Blackhawk vests, and use worn out carbines you might need to procure some new stuff.


I wonder if baboo culture is prevalent in the military after seeing the gear


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## Falcon26

SSG is among the least equipped special forces. Pakistan simply doesn’t focus on equipping its special forces and instead prefers to think of them as some Bollywood heroes who can get the job done thanks to their superhero mentality.

All the explanations about going ‘light’ etc are simple excuses and guesses and has nothing to do with any official thought process.

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## blain2

Falcon26 said:


> SSG is among the least equipped special forces. Pakistan simply doesn’t focus on equipping its special forces and instead prefers to think of them as some Bollywood heroes who can get the job done thanks to their superhero mentality.
> 
> All the explanations about going ‘light’ etc are simple excuses and guesses and has nothing to do with any official thought process.


Because everything comes down to money. There are countless requisition requests simply sitting there with no light at the end of tunnel. Our problem is no funding, in India their problem is bureaucracy going slow on everything despite them having money (however their acquisition plans are far better positioned than ours imho). 

This is simply because in Pakistan's case, the first handicap is, as always, no funding. Perpetually broke is the name of game on our side. Second handicap is foreign willingness to sell to us. This is perhaps less of a problem when it comes to small arms and equipment for personnel but this is also further compounded by lack of funding. We actually got spoiled by CSF/MNNA because our dealings with Americans were more straightforward using military assistance credits etc. With other countries, they want $ upfront. Here things simply get lost between the respective services/JS headquarters and MOD.

One can only imagine what the current account deficit and dwindling forex reserves are doing to our acquisition programs.

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## blain2

Falcon26 said:


> Thanks for your take. I wonder why there’s no shortage of money when it comes to buying VIP planes and plots for the generals?


I think these are two different things and despite the urge to beat up the military with such claims, we should look into these issues carefully.

Reality is that VIP planes are purchased once in a blue moon and in Pakistan's case, most are second-hand, refurbished. If there are examples of excesses for the military leaders, lets bring them up but generalization is our enemy here.

Second, plots require no money upfront. It is just allocation/reallocation of plots given to MOD by the GoP. See this issue of plots is an interesting one. There are two primary reasons as to why this system exists in Pakistan. Leaving the historical reason aside (i.e. getting trained, disciplined yet retired military personnel to inhabit/settle far flung, undeveloped or under developed areas), the two other reasons are a) when most of our officer corps retires, the vast majority of it has been roving around (ala postings) without settling in one area and building a house for their families becomes quite challenging upon retirement. Aside from a familial home, you could potentially say I don't have a place of residence to my name. This is a unique situation that pertains to military personnel only given the nature of the job. b) The military obviously cannot keep up with the private sector in terms of pay/compensation etc. so land allocation is considered an alternate form of compensation (specially at 2 star and above level ranks).

In the case of b, how many are allocated etc. needs to be regulated but coming back to your point, lack of upfront money leads to these types of practices finding currency in Pakistan.

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## Goritoes

blain2 said:


> What is there such an over-pivot on the looks?


There is no such intentions, I don't want protective gear for SSG so they can look cool like Videos games, I want them to wear better gear so they don't lose their lives. I explained @RescueRanger about the common sense of using Protective Glasses in Operations which are conducted in dry muddy environment.



blain2 said:


> We lose more special operations troops because we don't go into each operation with an overmatch of capability in the air and ground. We simply cannot afford it.


So are you telling me that SSG can not even afford to equipped a small group (lets say Al-zarrar) ? And what about Operations like the recent CTD station ? we lost 2-3 SSG personnel there, We could argue over the Air support in the mountains or valleys of FATA but SSG has a consistent poor performance in the rescue missions, they lose men in many such operations. Which makes me wonder if they even study their own tactics or Past Operations and where did they go wrong ? cause everybody does.



blain2 said:


> We lose more people because we have them deployed in remote areas with very little available by way of constant air and ground support. US and Western forces have never operated like this. If their chap goes down, there is immediate casevac. If there is rocket/mortar fire on their positions, they can call upon air strikes/heli strikes immediately (in most cases). We don't have these luxuries. When they travel, they are usually in MRAPs where we can barely afford a 50 of those vehicles.


I am not talking about regular Army, SSG ka yeh Haal hai tu Regular Army tu Allah Hafiz hai, We are still sending our soldiers in death trap Toyota's just to die. Those are such horrible cars that even a injured Soldier can't take cover behind it, we send them with not a single heavy armored vehicle. You know Why American's don't die in Operations, its because they value their soldiers, they know if they lose men in battle or operations there will be a inquiry against the commander and than he will have to go to congress to answer and explain, remember Bengazi ? How many time our Army regular or SSG failed and how many court of inquiries were sat against them? None ZERO. And as for MRAP's we can not afford them where the whole Military budget is going ? why are paying a lot of money to talentless captains and major's ? every Captain aur Major drive 10-15 Lac car and lives in a 240-600 Gaz house in Cantonments, why ? cut that money and put it towards better stuff so at least soldiers have equal chance to fight. If we can not protect our soldiers who are in front line and dying then Talaa laga do Army ko bhai. Our Army to this date rely on numbers thanks to large Pakistani population and poor people who join Army just so they have stable income and lots of incentives, when this how things work than yes I expect more and more soldiers dying.



blain2 said:


> So these comparisons aren't apples to apples. You could equip an SOF soldier with better body armor and better helmet and rifle with smart optics but he isn't going to survive an IED attack or hit and run on his remote post because he has no immediate recourse to calling in air support etc. These are the realities, constraints of our operating environment. We have posts in remote areas which are recce'd by the TTP/BLA for weeks and then they attack these posts with significant manpower/firepower. There is only so much that can be done unless we have a very robust ability to hit back immediately and overwhelmingly which would act as a deterrent and thus resulting in greater protection for our own troops.


Again, I am talking about SSG operations urban areas, like the recent CTD station one. You are describing the large scale operations done by regular Army.



blain2 said:


> Comparing Turkish equipment is also misleading. As I posted above, just their exports are north of $4B which offset a lot of costs for their own military/paramilitary. On top of that, Turks still benefit from close interaction with NATO and technology transfer. We get none of that. We could not even afford to upgrade the POF manufacturing facilities for G-3 production to take on development of a new rifle (it was an $800M investment).


So you want to tell me that we can not properly equipped an elite unit of lets say few hundred SSG ? The Turkish soldier in the front, look at the soldiers in same pics who is standing behind him, all of them have same gear. Our SSG, if you dig up Pictures here on PDF you will notice half the time they are not even wearing helmets in Operations, no proper vest and those who are wearing looks so out of the place, like when you give a Fat man sherwani to a skinny guy. Every Picture of SSG after/in/before Operation suggests their poor condition, and I believe that is why they lose men in almost every fight. If our soldiers have better not fancy but proper protective gear, even if they are shot they might survive.





Just look at the red circles, bhai is this how a SF unit suppose to gear up ? even BB gun can blind half of them if shot properly, no knee or elbow pads, no glasses for eye protection even though just look at the surrounding, One heavy wind gush and they will have bunch of mud in their eyes than they won't be able to see let alone focus on enemy fire, yaar Mujh jaise Civilian jis aaj tak real gun nai uthai can think of that common sense but SSG can't? Look at three soldiers sitting in front, and check out the right one, his helmet doesn't even fit his head, if he runs to take cover half of the time he will be holding his helmet. I've seen Police better equipped than SSG, and this is not in some valley or behind enemy lines, this is within a Cant, they have time to plan and gear and yet this is what they came up with. I believe SSG has no will or mood to go into these Operations, they are just forced to go and fight because regular Army just chicken out from almost every Operation these days.



blain2 said:


> As such our wishlists should be calibrated with 50 other things needed. We are talking about infantry and SF equipment needing upgrades, artillery, armor etc. all have needs for upgrades and modernization. Where is the money for all of this?


I only have one wish list, you all can insult me all you want, make fun of me not having any idea about SSG or SF operations, but my only wish list is that I want SSG to go into operations and they kill every last scumbag, and they all come out alive proud and successful, and ready to take on other Terrorists.

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## PanzerKiel

Goritoes said:


> my only wish list is that I want SSG to go into operations and they kill every last scumbag, and they all come out alive proud and successful, and ready to take on other Terrorists.


You wish list is very fine and logical. However, your analysis needs a bit of correction. Like the picture on which you drew red circles, one of the circles is not even an SSG guy.

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## Goritoes

PanzerKiel said:


> You wish list is very fine and logical. However, your analysis needs a bit of correction. Like the picture on which you drew red circles, one of the circles is not even an SSG guy.


Chalen sir baqi tu saare tu SSG hai na, I see this picture and every time I see it, it upsets me so much. As I've mentioned underneath picture that they have no protection in lower body or abdomen area, no knee/elbow pads, no Protective Glasses. I was driving to work one day, so I decided to drive with my windows down (here in US), and I wasn't wearing glasses, there is a bridge under construction, I was driving and because of wind some dirt came to my eyes, I was so disturbed by it that I have to quickly turn on emergency lights and stop at the side of the road, I have to wash my eyes with water and it took my eye 20-30 mins to get normal and even after that, my eye look red as hell. Eye Protection is important, in fact i should say it has to be mandatory just like knee/elbow pads.

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## PanzerKiel

Goritoes said:


> Chalen sir baqi tu saare tu SSG hai na, I see this picture and every time I see it, it upsets me so much. As I've mentioned underneath picture that they have no protection in lower body or abdomen area, no knee/elbow pads, no Protective Glasses. I was driving to work one day, so I decided to drive with my windows down (here in US), and I wasn't wearing glasses, there is a bridge under construction, I was driving and because of wind some dirt came to my eyes, I was so disturbed by it that I have to quickly turn on emergency lights and stop at the side of the road, I have to wash my eyes with water and it took my eye 20-30 mins to get normal and even after that, my eye look red as hell. Eye Protection is important, in fact i should say it has to be mandatory just like knee/elbow pads.


Thing is, just like you said, it's in the pictures. Now, it's a very normal thing, even for the regulars, not SSG not to pose with all equipment on, it gives away too much.

Moreover, there are situations which require you to operate light. I mean you look at taliban, vietcong etc... Lightly clothed and equipped soldiers defeating heavily equipped, clothed soldiers backed by first class tech surveillance.

Problem with heavy equipment is that it narrows down your field of vision, field of view, so you can focus towards one side only. It already makes you heavy, slow up move, a more conspic target, especially over difficult terrain. You generally compensate this with first class ground and air surveillance. If it's done, then optimum utilization of equipment and firepower is guaranteed. If not, then you are liable to drop a few items to make yourself lighter, more agile with expanded view around.

A lighter, mobile soldier is always difficult to hit.



Goritoes said:


> Chalen sir baqi tu saare tu SSG hai na, I see this picture and every time I see it, it upsets me so much. As I've mentioned underneath picture that they have no protection in lower body or abdomen area, no knee/elbow pads, no Protective Glasses. I was driving to work one day, so I decided to drive with my windows down (here in US), and I wasn't wearing glasses, there is a bridge under construction, I was driving and because of wind some dirt came to my eyes, I was so disturbed by it that I have to quickly turn on emergency lights and stop at the side of the road, I have to wash my eyes with water and it took my eye 20-30 mins to get normal and even after that, my eye look red as hell. Eye Protection is important, in fact i should say it has to be mandatory just like knee/elbow pads.


I myself once tried elbow and knee pads during active operations, but dropped them for some reasons.

I can show you SSG pictures with protective eye gear as well, able to withstand pellets and grenade fragments.

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## Goritoes

PanzerKiel said:


> Thing is, just like you said, it's in the pictures. Now, it's a very normal thing, even for the regulars, not SSG not to pose with all equipment on, it gives away too much.


Bhai Protective Glasses or knee/elbow pads se kon se nuclear secrets pata chal jane hai ? Come on yaar you and I both knows that these SSG didn't just took their gear off for photoshoot, they weren't even wearing them during the operation. 



PanzerKiel said:


> Moreover, there are situations which require you to operate light. I mean you look at taliban, vietcong etc... Lightly clothed and equipped soldiers defeating heavily equipped, clothed soldiers backed by first class tech surveillance.


But Modern day vests/Armored plates and other gear can save a life, each operation has its own requirements. But why is that we never see SSG in proper gear whether its in urban areas or Mountains ? Those old days are now gone, modern SF's using better gears to protect their soldiers lives, and this is one reality no one can deny. Have you ever see US Police encounter videos ? I saw hundreds, and many time Police are shot from close range and yet they survive only because of their better armor vest. 



PanzerKiel said:


> Problem with heavy equipment is that it narrows down your field of vision, field of view, so you can focus towards one side only. It already makes you heavy, slow up move, a more conspic target, especially over difficult terrain. You generally compensate this with first class ground and air surveillance. If it's done, then optimum utilization of equipment and firepower is guaranteed. If not, then you are liable to drop a few items to make yourself lighter, more agile with expanded view around.
> 
> A lighter, mobile soldier is always difficult to hit.


Fair enough but there are instances where you have to gear some heavy gear, specially in hostage situations where you have to bust the door open to face/direct enemy fire, if you send the men you see in picture to breach, Allah reham kare then. Bhai your soldier can move quick with less or light gear but still can't move faster than bullet, no one can outrun a bullet, our soldiers are not hollywood or bollywood actors. Some cases, yes lighter agile soldier can be beneficial but not always. 



PanzerKiel said:


> I myself once tried elbow and knee pads during active operations, but dropped them for some reasons.


I can't help but ask you, what was that " Some Reason " for you not wearing it ? If you were in a mountainous area for Operation than kneeling without pads is not an option, if you did that i would say you are not so smart (sorry for that), because try kneeling on hard rocks or stone, for 5 mins and than you are in no condition to than go in fights. Same goes with elbow, if some soldier has taken up a position to give cover to forwarding soldiers than he must have comfortable elbow pads so he can stay on that position for long without leaving his fellow soldiers without protection, again bhai this all common sense. 



PanzerKiel said:


> I can show you SSG pictures with protective eye gear as well, able to withstand pellets and grenade fragments.


I would surely appreciate that, Plus chalo at least you agree with my point that eye glasses can save them from bad injuries, and give protection against pellets and fragments.

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## Great Janjua

PanzerKiel said:


> I mean you look at taliban, vietcong etc... Lightly clothed and equipped soldiers defeating heavily equipped, clothed soldiers


Your comparing Guerilla fighters against Tier 1 Commandos who despite operating in foreign land gave the insurgents a whooping due to superior gear and tactics whilst SSG is in a pickle over local insurgents does not make our case strong we need dire improvements in both tactics and gear.


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## PanzerKiel

Goritoes said:


> I both knows that these SSG didn't just took their gear off for photoshoot, they weren't even wearing them during the operation.


Dear, if you know that, then that makes you the luckiest guy around. And i seriously envy you.


Goritoes said:


> But why is that we never see SSG in proper gear whether its in urban areas or Mountains ?


I take that as a complement really ..means that they got strict rules on getting pics during active operations. Were a bit laxed recently, now its stricter.



Goritoes said:


> many time Police are shot from close range and yet they survive only because of their better armor vest.


I hope you are not suggesting that SSG guys who are killed ARE THE ONLY ONES who have have been shot at. If SSG were not wearing proper equipment, with the operations they have been doing, their casualties would have enormous. SSG guys are much more professional than the regular army (several factors in play here, not the fault of regular army, its officers or soldiers though).....and being profession means SSG has got zero tolerance on lack of training, equipment, its procurement and its use during play.



Goritoes said:


> Fair enough but there are instances where you have to gear some heavy gear, specially in hostage situations where you have to bust the door open to face/direct enemy fire, if you send the men you see in picture to breach, Allah reham kare then.


As you said....these are not the men you use for breeching. These are regular SF guys from a regular SF unit, not hostage rescuers.


Goritoes said:


> If you were in a mountainous area for Operation than kneeling without pads is not an option, if you did that i would say you are not so smart (sorry for that), because try kneeling on hard rocks or stone, for 5 mins and than you are in no condition to than go in fights.


As you say, i might not be so smart, but then, atleast i am alive and dispatched some scum to hell as well. *I survived for 34 months in mountains without knee pads....didnt affect me at all. * On this, you should atleast give some credit to the man on the ground, who is in active contact, let him choose his loadout, he is the best judge of what to wear and what not to wear.....he knows very well that a small mistake on his part will be paid by his own very blood. I think its a good bargain.



Goritoes said:


> I would surely appreciate that, Plus chalo at least you agree with my point that eye glasses can save them from bad injuries, and give protection against pellets and fragments.



As i said, whenever there is a need, or the threat assessment requires it, SSG guys do wear it.



Great Janjua said:


> Your comparing Guerilla fighters against Tier 1 Commandos who despite operating in foreign land gave the insurgents a whooping due to superior gear and tactics whilst SSG is in a pickle over local insurgents does not make our case strong we need dire improvements in both tactics and gear.


...yeah, despite operating in foreign land, with the C4ISTAR assets helping you, all airpower you could muster, with rotary support to help you hump from one place to another, no long walks....

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## RescueRanger

PanzerKiel said:


> Dear, if you know that, then that makes you the luckiest guy around. And i seriously envy you.
> 
> I take that as a complement really ..means that they got strict rules on getting pics during active operations. Were a bit laxed recently, now its stricter.
> 
> 
> I hope you are not suggesting that SSG guys who are killed ARE THE ONLY ONES who have have been shot at. If SSG were not wearing proper equipment, with the operations they have been doing, their casualties would have enormous. SSG guys are much more professional than the regular army (several factors in play here, not the fault of regular army, its officers or soldiers though).....and being profession means SSG has got zero tolerance on lack of training, equipment, its procurement and its use during play.
> 
> 
> As you said....these are not the men you use for breeching. These are regular SF guys from a regular SF unit, not hostage rescuers.
> 
> As you say, i might not be so smart, but then, atleast i am alive and dispatched some scum to hell as well. On this, you should atleast give some credit to the man on the ground, who is in active contact, let him choose his loadout, he is the best judge of what to wear and what not to wear.....he knows very well that a small mistake on his part will be paid by his own very blood. I think its a good bargain.
> 
> 
> 
> As i said, whenever there is a need, or the threat assessment requires it, SSG guys do wear it.
> 
> 
> ...yeah, despite operating in foreign land, with the C4ISTAR assets helping you, all airpower you could muster, with rotary support to help you hump from one place to another, no long walks....


Sir, is ney nahi sun na.

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## Goritoes

PanzerKiel said:


> Dear, if you know that, then that makes you the luckiest guy around. And i seriously envy you.


If you just examine the Picture from a neutral POV than you would come to the same conclusion, let me explain this here a little. Did you notice the soldiers are literally taking off their helmets during the picture was taken ? So are you telling me that after Operation they went to planning table, drop half the gear there, came back to the dead bodies and then taking off their helmets ? 



PanzerKiel said:


> I take that as a complement really ..means that they got strict rules on getting pics during active operations. Were a bit laxed recently, now its stricter.


Well the pics we have is enough to upset Pakistani's, that their " Best of the best " SF literally geared like some Afghan district police. 



PanzerKiel said:


> If SSG were not wearing proper equipment, with the operations they have been doing, their casualties would have enormous.


This is literally my entire Argument, SSG lost personnel is almost every operation they conducted which was covered in media. Many Operations where they did not lose any men so I should say they did something right there, but if you just study last 10 SSG Operations which were covered by Media you can see the death rate. 


PanzerKiel said:


> As you said....these are not the men you use for breeching. These are regular SF guys from a regular SF unit, not hostage rescuers.


That was an example, If this is the best our SF can gear up for a Operation where Terrorists are holding up in a building than yes I can see why death rate is high in SSG. 



PanzerKiel said:


> As you say, i might not be so smart, but then, atleast i am alive and dispatched some scum to hell as well. On this, you should atleast give some credit to the man on the ground, who is in active contact, let him choose his loadout, he is the best judge of what to wear and what not to wear.....he knows very well that a small mistake on his part will be paid by his own very blood. I think its a good bargain.


Good for you, you are alive but we lose 2-3 SSG in last operation in CTD, I think SSG gear should be regulated and some protective gear must be made mandatory for Operations. But I think we are just going in circles as you don't see things the way I do, and I don't find your arguments in favor of SSG reasonable or satisfactory nor it explain the high death ration of SSG. 



PanzerKiel said:


> As i said, whenever there is a need, or the threat assessment requires it, SSG guys do wear it.


If the source is " Trust me bro " than ok. 

My conclusion to this is that I believe SSG high death rate has a lot to do with their poor training/Poor Gear/ and Probably lack or will to fight. I have not hear any reasonable justification for high death rate, instead different members who also happen to be claiming to be Active Army or former soldiers are giving me different reasons, some says we can not afford it, some say we have the gears but they don't wear for photo ops, some say they need light gear etc The confusion among the people's response perfectly explain why people should analyze everything from every angle and even question the performance of any and every institution. Most of the members here are extremely bias and that makes them blind over the issues that is plaguing the Army or SF units . So I am out until someone comes with a better justification or explanation, but until then we will just wait until the next time TTP take over a building and we send SSG, and we lose few more, than the whole cycle is repeat. Show anger, send condolence, troll people who raise questions, repeat.

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## RescueRanger

Goritoes said:


> If you just examine the Picture from a neutral POV than you would come to the same conclusion, let me explain this here a little. Did you notice the soldiers are literally taking off their helmets during the picture was taken ? So are you telling me that after Operation they went to planning table, drop half the gear there, came back to the dead bodies and then taking off their helmets ?
> 
> 
> Well the pics we have is enough to upset Pakistani's, that their " Best of the best " SF literally geared like some Afghan district police.
> 
> 
> This is literally my entire Argument, SSG lost personnel is almost every operation they conducted which was covered in media. Many Operations where they did not lose any men so I should say they did something right there, but if you just study last 10 SSG Operations which were covered by Media you can see the death rate.
> 
> That was an example, If this is the best our SF can gear up for a Operation where Terrorists are holding up in a building than yes I can see why death rate is high in SSG.
> 
> 
> Good for you, you are alive but we lose 2-3 SSG in last operation in CTD, I think SSG gear should be regulated and some protective gear must be made mandatory for Operations. But I think we are just going in circles as you don't see things the way I do, and I don't find your arguments in favor of SSG reasonable or satisfactory nor it explain the high death ration of SSG.
> 
> 
> If the source is " Trust me bro " than ok.
> 
> My conclusion to this is that I believe SSG high death rate has a lot to do with their poor training/Poor Gear/ and Probably lack or will to fight. I have not hear any reasonable justification for high death rate, instead different members who also happen to be claiming to be Active Army or former soldiers are giving me different reasons, some says we can not afford it, some say we have the gears but they don't wear for photo ops, some say they need light gear etc The confusion among the people's response perfectly explain why people should analyze everything from every angle and even question the performance of any and every institution. Most of the members here are extremely bias and that makes them blind over the issues that is plaguing the Army or SF units . So I am out until someone comes with a better justification or explanation, but until then we will just wait until the next time TTP take over a building and we send SSG, and we lose few more, than the whole cycle is repeat. Show anger, send condolence, troll people who raise questions, repeat.


Please be a little respectful. You’ve said your piece but keep banging on the same drum.

Please cite your sources about high mortality rates. 

Personally, you have yet provided any empirical or photographic evidence to support your hypothesis about l:

1. Poor equipment 
2. High mortality rates

Until you can provide this, you are just typing hyperbole. Several people have been patient enough to inform you, write detailed posts, and even explain the reasons why.

If you don’t want to listen, just agree to disagree and move on. 

Acha one last thing, if you are interested, PM me your plans for 2023, come down to Islamabad around July.

I’ll take you to a firing range with some buddies who are active service SSG, you can put your complaints to them in person. 😊

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## Goritoes

RescueRanger said:


> Please be a little respectful. You’ve said your piece but keep banging on the same drum.
> 
> Please cite your sources about high mortality rates.
> 
> Personally, you have yet provided any empirical or photographic evidence to support your hypothesis about l:
> 
> 1. Poor equipment
> 2. High mortality rates
> 
> Until you can provide this, you are just typing hyperbole. Several people have been patient enough to inform you, write detailed posts, and even explain the reasons why.
> 
> If you don’t want to listen, just agree to disagree and move on.
> 
> Acha one last thing, if you are interested, PM me your plans for 2023, come down to Islamabad around July.
> 
> I’ll take you to a firing range with some buddies who are active service SSG, you can put your complaints to them in person. 😊


No need to go in circles...

-CTD Operation
-Operation Janbaaz (GHQ Attack)
-PNS Mehran Attack (SSGN) 
-Lal Masjid Operation 

I can keep editing the list, where SSG lost men.



RescueRanger said:


> Several people have been patient enough to inform you, write detailed posts, and even explain the reasons why.


I am not bound to accept their reasons or explanations, this is not how things work in real life my friend. I don't find yours or other members reasons acceptable for the death rates so I counter them, but as I said I already concluded my last post by saying we will be discussing this again very soon, cause I am sure TTP will attack again, TTP will take hostage or a building, SSG will be called and we will lose more SSG, we will show our anger , our condolence, troll those who question, and than repeat.


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## RescueRanger

Goritoes said:


> No need to go in circles...
> 
> -CTD Operation
> -Operation Janbaaz (GHQ Attack)
> -PNS Mehran Attack (SSGN)
> -Lal Masjid Operation
> 
> I can keep editing the list, where SSG lost men.
> 
> 
> I am not bound to accept their reasons or explanations, this is not how things work in real life my friend. I don't find yours or other members reasons acceptable for the death rates so I counter them, but as I said I already concluded my last post by saying we will be discussing this again very soon, cause I am sure TTP will attack again, TTP will take hostage or a building, SSG will be called and we will lose more SSG, we will show our anger , our condolence, troll those who question, and than repeat.


Shame, chalo, my offer still stands. If you change your mind, PM me.

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## PanzerKiel

Goritoes said:


> My conclusion to this is that I believe SSG high death rate has a lot to do with their poor training/Poor Gear/ and Probably lack or will to fight.


You summed it up right. Dot on target.



RescueRanger said:


> Shame, chalo, my offer still stands. If you change your mind, PM me.


I'm in... Lolz

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## RescueRanger

PanzerKiel said:


> You summed it up right. Dot on target.
> 
> 
> I'm in... Lolz


Sir you are most welcome anytime 😊😂

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## Goritoes

RescueRanger said:


> Shame, chalo, my offer still stands. If you change your mind, PM me.


You really want me to contact you when I visit Pakistan, and come to Islamabad so you can take me to a shooting range ? wow that's generous offer but I choose Life  Honestly after seeing the Haal of Journalists like Arshad Sharif , Imran Riaz Khan and many others, kids who make tiktokers, you really think anyone who abuse Army 24/7 would trust someone with Army background ? In normal circumstance I would've taken your offer but in current situation, Pakistani's fear Army more than they fear TTP/India/US/Dajjal combined.



RescueRanger said:


> Shame, chalo, my offer still stands. If you change your mind, PM me.


Sir ab is age mai apni p0rn video banwane ka shock nai hai  Kabhi Tampa FL ayen tu zaroor mile ga, Yahan na apki aur na meri chale gi. Law and order exists here

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## RescueRanger

Goritoes said:


> You really want me to contact you when I visit Pakistan, and come to Islamabad so you can take me to a shooting range ? wow that's generous offer but I choose Life  Honestly after seeing the Haal of Journalists like Arshad Sharif , Imran Riaz Khan and many others, kids who make tiktokers, you really think anyone who abuse Army 24/7 would trust someone with Army background ? In normal circumstance I would've taken your offer but in current situation, Pakistani's fear Army more than they fear TTP/India/US/Dajjal combined.
> 
> 
> Sir ab is age mai apni p0rn video banwane ka shock nai hai  Kabhi Tampa FL ayen tu zaroor mile ga, Yahan na apki aur na meri chale gi. Law and order exists here


Yar I had no mala fide. It was a genuine offer.

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## blain2

Goritoes said:


> There is no such intentions, I don't want protective gear for SSG so they can look cool like Videos games, I want them to wear better gear so they don't lose their lives. I explained @RescueRanger about the common sense of using Protective Glasses in Operations which are conducted in dry muddy environment.
> 
> 
> So are you telling me that SSG can not even afford to equipped a small group (lets say Al-zarrar) ? And what about Operations like the recent CTD station ? we lost 2-3 SSG personnel there, We could argue over the Air support in the mountains or valleys of FATA but SSG has a consistent poor performance in the rescue missions, they lose men in many such operations. Which makes me wonder if they even study their own tactics or Past Operations and where did they go wrong ? cause everybody does.
> 
> 
> I am not talking about regular Army, SSG ka yeh Haal hai tu Regular Army tu Allah Hafiz hai, We are still sending our soldiers in death trap Toyota's just to die. Those are such horrible cars that even a injured Soldier can't take cover behind it, we send them with not a single heavy armored vehicle. You know Why American's don't die in Operations, its because they value their soldiers, they know if they lose men in battle or operations there will be a inquiry against the commander and than he will have to go to congress to answer and explain, remember Bengazi ? How many time our Army regular or SSG failed and how many court of inquiries were sat against them? None ZERO. And as for MRAP's we can not afford them where the whole Military budget is going ? why are paying a lot of money to talentless captains and major's ? every Captain aur Major drive 10-15 Lac car and lives in a 240-600 Gaz house in Cantonments, why ? cut that money and put it towards better stuff so at least soldiers have equal chance to fight. If we can not protect our soldiers who are in front line and dying then Talaa laga do Army ko bhai. Our Army to this date rely on numbers thanks to large Pakistani population and poor people who join Army just so they have stable income and lots of incentives, when this how things work than yes I expect more and more soldiers dying.
> 
> 
> Again, I am talking about SSG operations urban areas, like the recent CTD station one. You are describing the large scale operations done by regular Army.
> 
> 
> So you want to tell me that we can not properly equipped an elite unit of lets say few hundred SSG ? The Turkish soldier in the front, look at the soldiers in same pics who is standing behind him, all of them have same gear. Our SSG, if you dig up Pictures here on PDF you will notice half the time they are not even wearing helmets in Operations, no proper vest and those who are wearing looks so out of the place, like when you give a Fat man sherwani to a skinny guy. Every Picture of SSG after/in/before Operation suggests their poor condition, and I believe that is why they lose men in almost every fight. If our soldiers have better not fancy but proper protective gear, even if they are shot they might survive.
> 
> View attachment 908745
> 
> Just look at the red circles, bhai is this how a SF unit suppose to gear up ? even BB gun can blind half of them if shot properly, no knee or elbow pads, no glasses for eye protection even though just look at the surrounding, One heavy wind gush and they will have bunch of mud in their eyes than they won't be able to see let alone focus on enemy fire, yaar Mujh jaise Civilian jis aaj tak real gun nai uthai can think of that common sense but SSG can't? Look at three soldiers sitting in front, and check out the right one, his helmet doesn't even fit his head, if he runs to take cover half of the time he will be holding his helmet. I've seen Police better equipped than SSG, and this is not in some valley or behind enemy lines, this is within a Cant, they have time to plan and gear and yet this is what they came up with. I believe SSG has no will or mood to go into these Operations, they are just forced to go and fight because regular Army just chicken out from almost every Operation these days.
> 
> 
> I only have one wish list, you all can insult me all you want, make fun of me not having any idea about SSG or SF operations, but my only wish list is that I want SSG to go into operations and they kill every last scumbag, and they all come out alive proud and successful, and ready to take on other Terrorists.


I don't insult people and get personal so you don't have to worry about that.

There are a lot of holes in the above post and unfortunately most of them come back to funding.

Equipping SSG is not a job that is limited to, as you suggest:


> not properly equipped an elite unit of lets say few hundred SSG


SSG is a division sized formation. That equates to a table of organization and equipment for approximately 12-14000 troops. You cannot buy one set of gear either as within the SSG there are specialized companies that require built for purpose equipment based on their operational requirements. Since the founding of SSG, it has been one of the most expensive units to fund.

You talk about loose helmets etc, keep in mind that most of these helmets are pass through from MNNA stocks in the US. In the US, each troop is fitted for size etc. and appropriate levels of padding etc. is added to ensure proper fit. We get no such luxury with these hand me downs unless you pay for such equipment.
Our local industry is still not producing products of a quality that meet international standards. Protective eye gear and knee/elbow pads are all luxuries and the latter will eventually become available in due time when uniforms are replaced, but you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that special forces really need them. If our boys cannot handle lying prone or kneeling without pads on rough terrain then they are in the wrong line of work. At Siachen, we equip our troops with eye protection and other gear because it is an absolute necessity. In the operations in FATA etc., these are not hard requirements.

In the CTD operation, I don't know the details of what caused the 2 SSG casualties (3rd one was one of the injured hostages) but such casualties are looked into and lessons learned. One key give-away was that this operation was conducted in broad daylight (2 p.m.) which is not the best time for such dynamic entry missions. Similar to this, we lost 7-8 operators at Lal Masjid since the operation was conducted in broad daylight due to reasons unknown to me. For SSG, night is the time that allows the highest chance of success but in both cases, I believe due to the emerging situation, the SSG did not have this luxury. Despite this, they killed 25+ combatants armed heavily with equipment from the CTD kote.



> You know Why American's don't die in Operations, its because they value their soldiers, they know if they lose men in battle or operations there will be a inquiry against the commander and than he will have to go to congress to answer and explain, remember Bengazi ? How many time our Army regular or SSG failed and how many court of inquiries were sat against them? None ZERO.


That isn't entirely true. Internal briefings/de-briefings happen after each such mission. Not everything is put out in the open. The ONLY reason Benghazi became an open issue is because it was politicized by the Republicans against Hillary Clinton's State Department to get political mileage. Otherwise US special forces operations and their planning, execution and de-briefs are all held in secrecy and made available on a need to know basis. Remember the 2011 shooting down of the Chinook that took the lives of 17 SEALs? The details of that remain confidential.

This is not to say mistakes don't happen with special operations missions in Pakistan. Plenty have been and I know this up close. However, I cannot say that the same does not apply to others including in the first world.

We can equip our armed forces better when we have more funding available. We are broke and this should be well understood by people here.

By the way, just for fun, I am posting a picture of Saudi Special Forces during operations (real combat in Yemen). This is a military that is funded with $68B/year compared to our paltry $10B. However what this shows is when in the field, troops wear, do things that are practical for them:

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## CLUMSY

Goritoes said:


> There is no such intentions, I don't want protective gear for SSG so they can look cool like Videos games, I want them to wear better gear so they don't lose their lives. I explained @RescueRanger about the common sense of using Protective Glasses in Operations which are conducted in dry muddy environment.
> 
> 
> So are you telling me that SSG can not even afford to equipped a small group (lets say Al-zarrar) ? And what about Operations like the recent CTD station ? we lost 2-3 SSG personnel there, We could argue over the Air support in the mountains or valleys of FATA but SSG has a consistent poor performance in the rescue missions, they lose men in many such operations. Which makes me wonder if they even study their own tactics or Past Operations and where did they go wrong ? cause everybody does.
> 
> 
> I am not talking about regular Army, SSG ka yeh Haal hai tu Regular Army tu Allah Hafiz hai, We are still sending our soldiers in death trap Toyota's just to die. Those are such horrible cars that even a injured Soldier can't take cover behind it, we send them with not a single heavy armored vehicle. You know Why American's don't die in Operations, its because they value their soldiers, they know if they lose men in battle or operations there will be a inquiry against the commander and than he will have to go to congress to answer and explain, remember Bengazi ? How many time our Army regular or SSG failed and how many court of inquiries were sat against them? None ZERO. And as for MRAP's we can not afford them where the whole Military budget is going ? why are paying a lot of money to talentless captains and major's ? every Captain aur Major drive 10-15 Lac car and lives in a 240-600 Gaz house in Cantonments, why ? cut that money and put it towards better stuff so at least soldiers have equal chance to fight. If we can not protect our soldiers who are in front line and dying then Talaa laga do Army ko bhai. Our Army to this date rely on numbers thanks to large Pakistani population and poor people who join Army just so they have stable income and lots of incentives, when this how things work than yes I expect more and more soldiers dying.
> 
> 
> Again, I am talking about SSG operations urban areas, like the recent CTD station one. You are describing the large scale operations done by regular Army.
> 
> 
> So you want to tell me that we can not properly equipped an elite unit of lets say few hundred SSG ? The Turkish soldier in the front, look at the soldiers in same pics who is standing behind him, all of them have same gear. Our SSG, if you dig up Pictures here on PDF you will notice half the time they are not even wearing helmets in Operations, no proper vest and those who are wearing looks so out of the place, like when you give a Fat man sherwani to a skinny guy. Every Picture of SSG after/in/before Operation suggests their poor condition, and I believe that is why they lose men in almost every fight. If our soldiers have better not fancy but proper protective gear, even if they are shot they might survive.
> 
> View attachment 908745
> 
> Just look at the red circles, bhai is this how a SF unit suppose to gear up ? even BB gun can blind half of them if shot properly, no knee or elbow pads, no glasses for eye protection even though just look at the surrounding, One heavy wind gush and they will have bunch of mud in their eyes than they won't be able to see let alone focus on enemy fire, yaar Mujh jaise Civilian jis aaj tak real gun nai uthai can think of that common sense but SSG can't? Look at three soldiers sitting in front, and check out the right one, his helmet doesn't even fit his head, if he runs to take cover half of the time he will be holding his helmet. I've seen Police better equipped than SSG, and this is not in some valley or behind enemy lines, this is within a Cant, they have time to plan and gear and yet this is what they came up with. I believe SSG has no will or mood to go into these Operations, they are just forced to go and fight because regular Army just chicken out from almost every Operation these days.
> 
> 
> I only have one wish list, you all can insult me all you want, make fun of me not having any idea about SSG or SF operations, but my only wish list is that I want SSG to go into operations and they kill every last scumbag, and they all come out alive proud and successful, and ready to take on other Terrorists.


Try wearing knee and elbow pads for more than a hour, those things start getting in the way unless integrated within the BDU itself. They come off too. Too much of a hassle for many imo. Glasses arent really that important either, though comes down to preference. There are more important things

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## Metal 0-1

CLUMSY said:


> Glasses arent really that important either, though comes down to preference


I love to get all that debris in my eyes.

Cuz f*** muh life

Joke aside, eyepro Is not big deal in recce type missions


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## CLUMSY

Metal 0-1 said:


> I love to get all that debris in my eyes.
> 
> Cuz f*** muh life
> 
> Joke aside, eyepro Is not big deal in recce type missions


eyepro can be a lifesaver definitely, but i dont think it should be mandatory. SF bois should have a decent bit of autonomy imo


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## Metal 0-1

CLUMSY said:


> eyepro can be a lifesaver definitely, but i dont think it should be mandatory. SF bois should have a decent bit of autonomy imo


Decent? Bro they all the autonomy that's why they like keep their back to fatal funnel. 

Breaking the norms my dude

This useless conversation can go on and on.

Do recommend what thread I should post next Manual of Arms or SUT? Kinda confused rn


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## Mustang125

RescueRanger said:


> Yar I had no mala fide. It was a genuine offer.




Sir, with all due respect you are arguing with a chap whose car got rear ended and he ended up paying money to the person who rear ended HIM.

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## Khan_patriot

Goritoes said:


> My conclusion to this is that I believe SSG high death rate has a lot to do with their poor training/Poor Gear/ and* Probably lack or will to fight.*


You are absolutely correct there, hit the nail straight on the head with that statement you fucking dimwit.

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## Khan_patriot

Goritoes said:


> My conclusion to this is that I believe SSG high death rate has a lot to do with their poor training/Poor Gear/ and* Probably lack or will to fight.*


You are absolutely correct there, hit the nail straight on the head with that statement


Goritoes said:


> yaar Mujh jaise Civilian jis aaj tak real gun nai uthai can think of that common sense but SSG can't?


Oh my God, you, go enlighten them with your common sense. How stupid of them not to understand what you know. The fact that you know so much about military operations/ gear despite the fact that you never even picked up a gun, let alone fired one makes you an absolute genius.


Goritoes said:


> I believe SSG has no will or mood to go into these Operations


Bhai jaan if you are in such a mood then you are more than welcome to go do it and show us how it’s done.


Goritoes said:


> (here in US)


Ofc, I mean ofc you are some overseas dude who thinks he knows everything and anything.


Goritoes said:


> I wasn't wearing glasses, there is a bridge under construction, I was driving and because of wind some dirt came to my eyes, I was so disturbed by it that I have to quickly turn on emergency lights and stop at the side of the road, I have to wash my eyes with water and it took my eye 20-30 mins to get normal and even after that, my eye look red as hell.


You absolute hero, how’d you survive that??? That has to be traumatic as ****, I hope you didn’t get PTSD or something sweetie. You should sue your city for almost blinding you.

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## Great Janjua

What a joke this thread is no ones questioning that SSG have been wearing same shite LBVs from 5 years i have also seen some SSG dudes in Jhelum who wore absolute crap body army and helmets but carried M4s if some Pakis on this forum think that its perfectly reasonable to lose Tier 1 Men in random operations against flip flop wearing Talibs with Shalwar Kameez then expect no change Yeh to Mard e Mujahid Lumbar 1 Battle hardened Stronkkk Pauj.

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## Goritoes

Great Janjua said:


> What a joke this thread is no ones questioning that SSG have been wearing same shite LBVs from 5 years i have also seen some SSG dudes in Jhelum who wore absolute crap body army and helmets but carried M4s if some Pakis on this forum think that its perfectly reasonable to lose Tier 1 Men in random operations against flip flop wearing Talibs with Shalwar Kameez then expect no change Yeh to Mard e Mujahid Lumbar 1 Battle hardened Stronkkk Pauj.


Most of the people who you see are responding are from the families of Army so don't accept anything rational from them cause they/their kids are part of that corrupt System hence even if Pakistan lose they will still show us this fake bravado, and others are just Jazabati bache lol



CLUMSY said:


> Try wearing knee and elbow pads for more than a hour, those things start getting in the way unless integrated within the BDU itself. They come off too. Too much of a hassle for many imo. Glasses arent really that important either, though comes down to preference. There are more important things


The most Important thing in any operation should be staying alive while killing the enemy, but by looking at the performance of SSG in almost every Operation which was covered in Media and by looking at their lunda bazar ke used gear I doubt they even want to go for these Operations, most of them look like they wake up from last night hangover.


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## Goritoes

RescueRanger said:


> Yar I had no mala fide. It was a genuine offer.


Maybe, but after what happen to Journalists like Arshad Sharif and Imran riaz, and others I don't trust Army or their family members, Army has been acting like a mafia hence their families or supporter will not be very different. Back in the days I would've accepted it but now its impossible  As I say ever come to USA we could meet up cause I feel much safer here than in my own country against my own Army. Sad isn't it ?



Mustang125 said:


> Sir, with all due respect you are arguing with a chap whose car got rear ended and he ended up paying money to the person who rear ended HIM.


Because this is America, Pakistan nai hai jahan ministers aur journalist ko nanga ker unki ke sath fauji rape kerte hai. LOL


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## blain2

Great Janjua said:


> What a joke this thread is no ones questioning that SSG have been wearing same shite LBVs from 5 years i have also seen some SSG dudes in Jhelum who wore absolute crap body army and helmets but carried M4s if some Pakis on this forum think that its perfectly reasonable to lose Tier 1 Men in random operations against flip flop wearing Talibs with Shalwar Kameez then expect no change Yeh to Mard e Mujahid Lumbar 1 Battle hardened Stronkkk Pauj.


Can you provide any insights to the budgeting challenges please? You keep on harping over the same thing repeatedly. There isn't money readily available. Khatam Shud!



Goritoes said:


> Maybe, but after what happen to Journalists like Arshad Sharif and Imran riaz, and others I don't trust Army or their family members, Army has been acting like a mafia hence their families or supporter will not be very different. Back in the days I would've accepted it but now its impossible  As I say ever come to USA we could meet up cause I feel much safer here than in my own country against my own Army. Sad isn't it ?
> 
> 
> Because this is America, Pakistan nai hai jahan ministers aur journalist ko nanga ker unki ke sath fauji rape kerte hai. LOL


Please keep the political stuff out of this thread. Either you update it to keep it on point or we can delete it. We understand your concerns as they have been shared on countless threads. This specific one is a non-political one in the military section. Hope you get the spirit of this structure.

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## Goritoes

blain2 said:


> Please keep the political stuff out of this thread. Either you update it to keep it on point or we can delete it. We understand your concerns as they have been shared on countless threads. This specific one is a non-political one in the military section. Hope you get the spirit of this structure.


I would then expect you to also clean the posts which insulting towards me, fair enough ? And I am writing a response to your last post it will take time.


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## blain2

Goritoes said:


> I would then expect you to also clean the posts which insulting towards me, fair enough ? And I am writing a response to your last post it will take time.


I did even before I wrote the response to you. I sent a note to the member to take out personal abuses and edited one of the posts above.


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## Goritoes

blain2 said:


> I did even before I wrote the response to you. I sent a note to the member to take out personal abuses and edited one of the posts above.


Anyways...Check this picture out.





This is the picture of SSG from old Rahe-e-Nijat.

Red Circle ---- Look at their helmets, fits perfectly and even covers part of their ears.
Yellow Circle ---- Everyone of them wearing Protective Glasses, I bet it was for the same reasons I was discussing.
Blue Circle ---- Small/little but some sort of protection for abdomen area.

This is how SSG should gear up for Operations, from the looks its not that heavy. This exact Gear set could be used or Standardize in any open or close combat operations. Now they are not wearing knee/elbow pads and my memory serves me right this was from Mir Ali, where SSG captured and neutralized IED factories, given the terrain around them its not hard to understand that the fight would've been house to house, and street by street, hence their Gear set is perfectly fits for their situation. Why can't they do the same in every Operation ?


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## blain2

Goritoes said:


> The most Important thing in any operation should be staying alive while killing the enemy, but by looking at the performance of SSG in almost every Operation which was covered in Media and by looking at their lunda bazar ke used gear I doubt they even want to go for these Operations, most of them look like they wake up from last night hangover.



The gear is hand-me down or surplus and in some cases purchased outright with whatever little funding is available. So get used to ill-fitting clothing and equipment on top of the fact that we are skinny, wiry people so we will never look like big hulking westerners in the kit. Whether the chaps show up looking like they had a hang-over is up to you. Maybe you don't like their unshaven faces and perhaps having lived in the US prefer clean shaven faces but that is neither here or there.

We don't have a very large economy (it is massively underperforming for the 210M population), yet we have to sustain a 700,000 personnel armed force with a $10B budget compared to 200,000 with a $68B budget for KSA as an example. So there is very little $ for all the stuff that you, Great Janjua and others keep on talking about.

The performance of the SSG is not bad for what we have. Could they be better, sure, just the same as any other western SF. At the end of the day, you have to look at SSG and the commit rate of the force compared to others. We employ SSG far more than most other SF except USSF. What that means is that with the level of funding/protection we have, we also expose our operators to more risk. By way of comparison, just the US Special Operations Command has a budget 3x larger than Pakistan's entire defense budget. So lots of things to ponder over.

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## Great Janjua

blain2 said:


> Can you provide any insights to the budgeting challenges please? You keep on harping over the same thing repeatedly. There isn't money readily available. Khatam Shud!


No money Shud oh bas kar mama kinu goli denay pia.

I offer my stocks of Jaggery to help fight of this injustice of no money please sar lumber 1 pauj.


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## blain2

Goritoes said:


> Anyways...Check this picture out.
> View attachment 908901
> 
> This is the picture of SSG from old Rahe-e-Nijat.
> 
> Red Circle ---- Look at their helmets, fits perfectly and even covers part of their ears.
> Yellow Circle ---- Everyone of them wearing Protective Glasses, I bet it was for the same reasons I was discussing.
> Blue Circle ---- Small/little but some sort of protection for abdomen area.
> 
> This is how SSG should gear up for Operations, from the looks its not that heavy. This exact Gear set could be used or Standardize in any open or close combat operations. Now they are not wearing knee/elbow pads and my memory serves me right this was from Mir Ali, where SSG captured and neutralized IED factories, given the terrain around them its not hard to understand that the fight would've been house to house, and street by street, hence their Gear set is perfectly fits for their situation. Why can't they do the same in every Operation ?


They do. Honestly, we are going in circles over perception. With each mission, the appropriate equipment is taken which is sanctioned to the company/unit. if they equipment is not sanctioned, available for whatever reasons (funding primarily), it does not stop the SSG from operating. They go in with what they have.
At the end of the day, you are definitely entitled to your opinion about what is good and isn't good but as they say, the elephant in the room is our precarious funding situation.



Great Janjua said:


> No money Shud oh bas kar mama kinu goli denay pia.
> 
> I offer my stocks of Jaggery to help fight of this injustice of no money please sar lumber 1 pauj.


Ok, you know better.

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## Great Janjua

Goritoes said:


> Most of the people who you see are responding are from the families of Army so don't accept anything rational from them cause they/their kids are part of that corrupt System hence even if Pakistan lose they will still show us this fake bravado, and others are just Jazabati bache lol


I come from a long army background half of our village heck even area served in army we have a couple youngsters still serving but some people on this forum are too far up their own arse.


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## Goritoes

blain2 said:


> They do. Honestly, we are going in circles over perception. With each mission, the appropriate equipment is taken which is sanctioned to the company/unit. if they equipment is not sanctioned, available for whatever reasons (funding primarily), it does not stop the SSG from operating. They go in with what they have.
> At the end of the day, you are definitely entitled to your opinion about what is good and isn't good but as they say, the elephant in the room is our precarious funding situation.


I agree, but I can't help but see that SSG does used proper gear so now saying that funding is causing them to lower down the gear is something i find it hard to understand. But what do i Know ? people here knows everything about everything because their chache mamu in Army hence they have unlocked the purpose of life. Its sad to see how even title holds can resort to name calling when someone counter their narratives or question army. I am entitle to my opinion and I said this before and I will said it again, so far I don't find rescue ranger, penzerkeil arguments reasonable or valid. Lets wait until we see SSG operating again in some operation, I hope they don't die and kill all the terrorists cause in the end for me that's all that matters.



Great Janjua said:


> I come from a long army background half of our village heck even area served in army we have a couple youngsters still serving but some people on this forum are too far up their own arse.


You know I as a civilian have a very limited interaction with fauji's, but all the posts here from members who claim to be fauji's or their family members to be fauji's, i wonder if that's how Narcissist they actually are in real life ? So full of arrogance and anyone who question them or their ability is just wrong and they all herd up against that person, is that how Fauji's are really are, than I see why we are in such mess.

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## Great Janjua

Goritoes said:


> I agree, but I can't help but see that SSG does used proper gear so now saying that funding is causing them to lower down the gear is something i find it hard to understand. But what do i Know ? people here knows everything about everything because their chache mamu in Army hence they have unlocked the purpose of life. Its sad to see how even title holds can resort to name calling when someone counter their narratives or question army. I am entitle to my opinion and I said this before and I will said it again, so far I don't find rescue ranger, penzerkeil arguments reasonable or valid. Lets wait until we see SSG operating again in some operation, I hope they don't die and kill all the terrorists cause in the end for me that's all that matters.


Don't take these internet sharp shooters serious afterall no ones a top shot whatever you said has been happening for 5 years from SSG to other levels its pointless arguing with people who paint a pretty picture. I used to do the same but overtime you realize that on the ground hardly anyone gives a toss.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Goritoes said:


> Most of the people who you see are responding are from the families of Army so don't accept anything rational from them cause they/their kids are part of that corrupt System hence even if Pakistan lose they will still show us this fake bravado, and others are just Jazabati bache lol
> 
> 
> The most Important thing in any operation should be staying alive while killing the enemy, but by looking at the performance of SSG in almost every Operation which was covered in Media and by looking at their lunda bazar ke used gear I doubt they even want to go for these Operations, most of them look like they wake up from last night hangover.


And thus have more to lose than expats living a cozy life in the US, making big statements right?

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## Goritoes

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> And thus have more to lose than expats living a cozy life in the US, making big statements right?


Nope, definitely not living a comfortable/cozy life, and even if I was, that would not matter. My whole argument from the very start was that I wanted to see less SSG death in operations, and in my limited knowledge and understanding, I believe poor gear/training is playing a huge part in their deaths. Now am I 1000% right ? no, but am I 1000% wrong ? no, nor we will ever know because there is no self accountability exists in regular army let alone ISI or SSG. You can't question them here on a forum, you really think they would dare anyone question them in real life ?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Goritoes said:


> Nope, definitely not living a comfortable/cozy life, and even if I was, that would not matter. My whole argument from the very start was that I wanted to see less SSG death in operations, and in my limited knowledge and understanding, I believe poor gear/training is playing a huge part in their deaths. Now am I 1000% right ? no, but am I 1000% wrong ? no, nor we will ever know because there is no self accountability exists in regular army let alone ISI or SSG. You can't question them here on a forum, you really think they would dare anyone question them in real life ?


id agree that SSG surely aint equipped on par with US top tier but do you think color of the tuking body armour and not wearing some knee/elbow pads in some photos makes you eligible to guess that they have poor training or lack frag proof glasses? For fuk sakes.

All these pics you see are years old. Ive posted plenty of pics from the 14-16 ops with them wearing post of the stuff you guys are cribbing about.

You made moronic statements about lack of will, poor training. Do you have anything to back those up?
Homie my younger brother is in the SSG, my elder brother served for 5 fukin years in operational areas. 

Do you think you worry about our troops more than their own families?

I can post a billion pics of ssg with plate carriers, eye wear, UBGLs, silencers but youd still find keeray in that.
You want the best for them? So do we, but we have to make do with what we got.


p.s: here are the US greens and deltas from 2015 afghanistan

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## Goritoes

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> id agree that SSG surely aint equipped on par with US top tier but do you think color of the tuking body armour and not wearing some knee/elbow pads in some photos makes you eligible to guess that they have poor training or lack frag proof glasses? For fuk sakes.


I hope you understand the difference between observation and Opinion, About the body armor and gear that is my observation based on images of SSG in Operations, Lack of training is my opinion which I am entitled to. 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> You made moronic statements about lack of will, poor training. Do you have anything to back those up?


Nope, just my opinion based on their death ratio in Operations. You are more than welcome to disagree. 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Homie my younger brother is in the SSG, my elder brother served for 5 fukin years in operational areas.


and ? How does that prove me wrong about anything ?



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Do you think you worry about our troops more than their own families?


Nope, I just feel bad that our " best of the best " are not the best after all. If families wants to send their kids to Army or SSG, than its their choice. If my kid was in Army I would expect Army to made sure that he got appropriate training and gear before they send them to fight the enemy. 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I can post a billion pics of ssg with plate carriers, eye wear, UBGLs, silencers but youd still find keeray in that.


If you have them than that's good, I won't find any keeray in them, I posted a old picture from Rahe-e-Rast, and pointed how SSG used to gear up when they conduct operations in areas like Bajaur, Mir Ali etc.

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## PanzerKiel

Goritoes said:


> Anyways...Check this picture out.
> View attachment 908901
> 
> This is the picture of SSG from old Rahe-e-Nijat.


Zarb e Azb, 2014.

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## Irfan Baloch

blain2 said:


> I think these are two different things and despite the urge to beat up the military with such claims, we should look into these issues carefully.
> 
> Reality is that VIP planes are purchased once in a blue moon and in Pakistan's case, most are second-hand, refurbished. If there are examples of excesses for the military leaders, lets bring them up but generalization is our enemy here.
> 
> Second, plots require no money upfront. It is just allocation/reallocation of plots given to MOD by the GoP. See this issue of plots is an interesting one. There are two primary reasons as to why this system exists in Pakistan. Leaving the historical reason aside (i.e. getting trained, disciplined yet retired military personnel to inhabit/settle far flung, undeveloped or under developed areas), the two other reasons are a) when most of our officer corps retires, the vast majority of it has been roving around (ala postings) without settling in one area and building a house for their families becomes quite challenging upon retirement. Aside from a familial home, you could potentially say I don't have a place of residence to my name. This is a unique situation that pertains to military personnel only given the nature of the job. b) The military obviously cannot keep up with the private sector in terms of pay/compensation etc. so land allocation is considered an alternate form of compensation (specially at 2 star and above level ranks).
> 
> In the case of b, how many are allocated etc. needs to be regulated but coming back to your point, lack of upfront money leads to these types of practices finding currency in Pakistan.


I wont respond to these one liner off topic rants. this obsession with hating on army leadership due to sacking of Imran Khan is making these PTI NPCs to rant on non political threads like OCD. 
they are degrading the discussion with their continuous bickering and putting off our international posters who are now complaining that they cant have a peaceful discussion 

and sadly PTI fellow cult members then join in giving reasons why its essential to rant and make us suffer in this forum.



RescueRanger said:


> Please be a little respectful. You’ve said your piece but keep banging on the same drum.
> 
> Please cite your sources about high mortality rates.
> 
> Personally, you have yet provided any empirical or photographic evidence to support your hypothesis about l:
> 
> 1. Poor equipment
> 2. High mortality rates
> 
> Until you can provide this, you are just typing hyperbole. Several people have been patient enough to inform you, write detailed posts, and even explain the reasons why.
> 
> If you don’t want to listen, just agree to disagree and move on.
> 
> Acha one last thing, if you are interested, PM me your plans for 2023, come down to Islamabad around July.
> 
> I’ll take you to a firing range with some buddies who are active service SSG, you can put your complaints to them in person. 😊


one solution is to stop responding to this broken record.

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## SSGOPERATOR

Akalmand keliye ishara kafi hain.....


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## Metal 0-1

SSGOPERATOR said:


> Akalmand keliye ishara kafi hain.....


Man I am a visual learner please explain


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## ghazi52

SSGN

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## ghazi52

.,.,.,

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## Irfan Baloch

PanzerKiel said:


> Zarb e Azb, 2014.


I promise you and others that this thread won't be spoiled by that broken record you had to respond.
I am sorry it took so long.

there are multiple complaints about similar behaviour by some posters where a thread is over run by rants by a poster with issues.

although they get enough opportunity to vent it in relevant thread but then they bring their issues to a thread like this which is mainly a visual representation of what our special forces look like in different settings in training exercises and field.

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## Khan_patriot

Irfan Baloch said:


> I promise you and others that this thread won't be spoiled by that broken record you had to respond.
> I am sorry it took so long.
> 
> there aee multiple complaints about similar behaviour by some posters where a thread is over run by rants by a poster with issues.
> 
> although they get enough opportunity to vent it in relevant thread but ghen they bring their issues to a thread like this which is mainly a visual representation of what our special forces look like in different settings in training exercises and field.


It really grinds my gears seeing a person who has no idea what they are talking about about a subject as niche as military SOF. Most of them are kids/ young adults who have played too much Call of Duty or watched a lot of Hollywood propaganda movies. I try my best to ignore them but sometimes I just can’t. I get that everyone is entitled to their opinion but some of them need to sit their *** down and reserve their opinions to things they actually have a clue about.

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## ghazi52

SSGN doing exercise with Turkish Navy...

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## blain2

Goritoes said:


> Nope, definitely not living a comfortable/cozy life, and even if I was, that would not matter. My whole argument from the very start was that I wanted to see less SSG death in operations, and in my limited knowledge and understanding, I believe poor gear/training is playing a huge part in their deaths. Now am I 1000% right ? no, but am I 1000% wrong ? no, nor we will ever know because there is no self accountability exists in regular army let alone ISI or SSG. You can't question them here on a forum, you really think they would dare anyone question them in real life ?


A lot of the times Special Forces are victims of their own success and hype. This leads to overconfidence and underestimation of the adversary.
Interestingly, the very first SSG casualty in combat during the 1971 war was of an officer i.e. Col Suleman who was martyred as he was being driven in his jeep because with the usual SSG bravado, he was standing up in the jeep with his upper torso exposed and that is when the EPR ambush came (the worst loss of life for the SSG in a single operation) with 22 KIA. Initial SSG casualties in the FATA were also on account of a perception that resistance from ragtag militants would be light but in many operations that was not the case as the militants were hardened combatants from Afghanistan or fidaiyeen willing to fight till the end.

Special Forces tend to do better once they have been acclimatized to the environment in which they have to operate. I guess that could be said about any unit but most other units being inducted don't come with the hype/reputation of special forces.

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## ghazi52

,.,..,

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## ghazi52

.,.,
To Allah we belong and to Him we shall return Commando Haleem Khan, who was injured in the Bannu operation, was martyred just after being in a life and death struggle..

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## ghazi52

With Royal Saudi Forces.....


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