# Phase-I of F-Insas to be ready for induction by 2011



## godsavetheworld

*Electronic gear, futuristic fatigues await Indian soildiers in 2011*

Express India
Pune, March 8:

In a few years from now, skilled soldiers of the Indian Army will not just resort to guns to fight the enemy. *The Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) is currently developing a futuristic Indian Small Arms system (F-INSAS), which will equip the soldiers with an advanced weapon system complete with efficient communication, position finding and tracking devices. *
The futuristic soldier will also wear uniforms designed to *clot oozing blood and boots that will protect his legs even if he steps on a landmine*. According to ARDE&#8217;s Director Surendra Kumar, ARDE, with its emphasis on hardware-oriented projects now regards &#8216;armament electronics&#8217; as an area of &#8220;highest priority&#8221;. Armament electronics refers to a specialised area involving integration of microelectronics, computers, sensors, artificial intelligence, control, image processing and target recognition, both in launch systems and target effectors. 

&#8220;The F-INSAS is what the infantry soldier of the future will be equipped with. It will be a multi-function weapon system with several features integrated into its design. *It would be able to fight at close quarters, tackle distant targets and monitor attacks coming from all directions and accordingly respond.* It would also have detailed communication mechanisms. For example, the system would* ensure that communication between the rifle and the soldier is done through electronic means*,&#8221; said Kumar. 

The miniaturized computer weapon system is *likely to be ready in three years *and ARDE has already developed two prototypes and is discussing them with the infantry. The soldier&#8217;s clothing, which is presently considered as a rudimentary requirement, is also set to go advanced with ARDE developing smart clothes and boots. &#8220;*The weapons system will function on light-weight batteries that can be easily charged. Sensors fixed in the boots will be used to charge the batteries*,&#8221; said Kumar. 

Besides F-INSAS, ARDE is also developing warhead technology, precision guided munitions and a futuristic Infantry Combat Vehicle (ICV). &#8220;Control guided and precision guided munitions with higher accuracy and increased range is our plan for the future,&#8221; said Kumar. *&#8220;Once completed, they will combine brain with brawn and act as force multipliers and enable us to deliver powerful weapon systems,&#8221; he added.* 

When asked when F-Insas would become a reality, he said "*The good news could come as early as late 2010 or early 2011, but it would not be the "fully loaded version". However, parts of the programme like electronic geared uniform and positioning system would be ready to be inducted*"

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## DeathInvader

godsavetheworld said:


> *Electronic gear, futuristic fatigues await Indian soildiers in 2011*
> 
> Express India
> Pune, March 8:
> 
> In a few years from now, skilled soldiers of the Indian Army will not just resort to guns to fight the enemy. *The Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) is currently developing a futuristic Indian Small Arms system (F-INSAS), which will equip the soldiers with an advanced weapon system complete with efficient communication, position finding and tracking devices. *
> The futuristic soldier will also wear uniforms designed to *clot oozing blood and boots that will protect his legs even if he steps on a landmine*. According to ARDEs Director Surendra Kumar, ARDE, with its emphasis on hardware-oriented projects now regards armament electronics as an area of highest priority. Armament electronics refers to a specialised area involving integration of microelectronics, computers, sensors, artificial intelligence, control, image processing and target recognition, both in launch systems and target effectors.
> 
> The F-INSAS is what the infantry soldier of the future will be equipped with. It will be a multi-function weapon system with several features integrated into its design. *It would be able to fight at close quarters, tackle distant targets and monitor attacks coming from all directions and accordingly respond.* It would also have detailed communication mechanisms. For example, the system would* ensure that communication between the rifle and the soldier is done through electronic means*, said Kumar.
> 
> The miniaturized computer weapon system is *likely to be ready in three years *and ARDE has already developed two prototypes and is discussing them with the infantry. The soldiers clothing, which is presently considered as a rudimentary requirement, is also set to go advanced with ARDE developing smart clothes and boots. *The weapons system will function on light-weight batteries that can be easily charged. Sensors fixed in the boots will be used to charge the batteries*, said Kumar.
> 
> Besides F-INSAS, ARDE is also developing warhead technology, precision guided munitions and a futuristic Infantry Combat Vehicle (ICV). Control guided and precision guided munitions with higher accuracy and increased range is our plan for the future, said Kumar. *Once completed, they will combine brain with brawn and act as force multipliers and enable us to deliver powerful weapon systems, he added.*
> 
> When asked when F-Insas would become a reality, he said "*The good news could come as early as late 2010 or early 2011, but it would not be the "fully loaded version". However, parts of the programme like electronic geared uniform and positioning system would be ready to be inducted*"



great..............! now the scenario would be more clear in the war.........and better gears will put the fighting ratio at a higher rate.............!  we will soon c dezz flags in white color in a short time during a war..........

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## Super Falcon

only time will telll

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## DeathInvader

Super Falcon said:


> only time will telll



i m w8ing for dat time to coon soon..........


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## messenger

Super Falcon said:


> only time will telll



time always tells .
its good that gov is planning so much for our soldiers .


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## tyagi



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## maverick2009

The Vedio is impressive.

For a developing country india seems to be spending a lot of time and money on its military industry for the future.

I will be amazed if indian,s 1 million man army all obtain F INSAS status by 2020.

I think it may be just say their strike corps prehaps 6 divisions around 100,000 men intially. 

Thats more realistic. i think


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## godsavetheworld

New Delhi. The Indian Army is steadily implementing a major plan to make its units &#8220;light, rapidly deployable and more lethal at extended ranges, particularly in darkness&#8221;

Outgoing Chief of Army Staff Gen J J Singh told India Strategic in an interview before laying down the office that the *Army is already implementing a long-term Perspective Plan till 2017 to equip its soldiers with new, 21st century weapons and net-centricity to give them instant connectivity to one another and take on an enemy &#8220;there and then.&#8221;*

There are &#8220;specific milestones to induct cutting-edge technologies&#8221; to give the best to the war fighter to defend the country. Space-based Information, Surveillance and Reconnaissance capabilities (ISR) are being introduced as well as UAVs, helicopters and particularly night-fighting capabilities. 

Gen J J Singh, who also headed the Chiefs of Staff Committee (COSC), said that future warfare would envisage integrated deployment from all the three services, and that this was &#8220;the main theme in the Joint Doctrine published in 2006.&#8221; 

Night-fighting capability was needed by all the three services, particularly the air force. Warfighting has changing so fast that there was no option but to have the best of the sensors and target acquisition and destruction capability day and night, 24 x 7, and always, irrespective of the terrain. 

He disclosed that night-fighting devices were extensively being put on all the Indian Army&#8217;s Armoured Fighting Vehicles (AFVs) like tanks and BMPs while the soldiers were being given night vision goggles, handheld image intensifiers and thermal imagers, GPS position locaters and computer connectivity to give still and streaming video pictures of one&#8217;s own and enemy locations. 

Lighter weapons, some with laser capabilities, were also being acquired.

Even the older tanks like T 55, which were still with the army, were being refurbished with newer weapons and night sensors.

Gen Singh said that UAVs were a very potent source of information as they provided excellent images day and night, and the armed forces were already trying out night fighting capabilities in periodic exercises with aerial support components like UAVs, helicopters and aircraft. The Indian Air Force (IAF) was involved in these exercises as coordination between the Army and IAF was particularly required.

Information and intelligence about an adversary was important, and equally so was its absorption and dissemination at the command and operational levels, including to the man on the front. Satellites and UAVs for instance, he pointed out, gave excellent imagery, and this input could be tremendous force multiplier to direct precision and destructive fire power.

Terrain knowledge helps in execution of war plans. 

Operational readiness 24 x 7, night fighting capability and highly motivated officers and men had been his key result Areas (KRAs), the outgoing Chief said.

The ongoing Revolution in Military Affairs (RMA) meant that technology played &#8220;a decisive role&#8221; in conflicts and that &#8220;as future battlefields are likely to be fluid and fast-paced, requiring quicker responses, we are revamping our communication systems to achieve true networking.&#8221;

&#8220;Based on the Joint Doctrine, the Army has already published its doctrine, as have the other two services. All other doctrines, like the one on Sub-Conventional Operations released recently, take into account the imperatives of jointness. The Army is increasingly focusing on the need for increased cooperation while operating in conjunction with the Navy and Air Force.&#8221;

The Army chief pointed out that conduct of joint operations was &#8220;an aspect being given due importance by us and that towards this end, efforts at evolving inter-operable systems, doctrines and concepts are already underway.&#8221;

*As for tomorrow&#8217;s soldier, Gen J J Singh added, he will look like a &#8220;hi-tech man-machine system.&#8221;*

&#8220;New technologies from sensors to lighter but precision weapons would greatly improve the current capabilities of the soldiers, regardless of their technology and there is no choice but to keep up with them. &#8220;Our soldier should be able to hit an enemy to effectively neutralize him without losing his own life is that&#8217;s what we want.&#8221;

Gen Singh said that the army had to be prepared and equipped with technology and better weapons even to ensure deterrence. &#8220;India wants peace, and one of the best ways to ensure this is to be prepared to neutralise an enemy if he attacks.&#8221; 

&#8220;Besides the induction of technology, our Infantry, Mechanised Forces, Artillery and Air Defence components are being modernised to retain conventional deterrence against our adversaries,&#8221; he observed pointing out that &#8220;we are laying special focus on revamping our surveillance and intelligence gathering systems with a view to integrate the same into our decision making process.&#8221;

Newer technologies have to be absorbed and fast at all levels.

*&#8220;A project, &#8216;Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System&#8217; (FINSAS) has been launched which will provide the infantryman with sensors for night vision, smart electronic displays, lightweight energy absorbing protection with smart surfaces, advanced automated lightweight role, so as to be able to function more efficiently and effectively. The fully integrated &#8216;Infantryman&#8217; of tomorrow will be equipped with 
mission-oriented equipment integrated with his buddy soldier team, the sub-unit, as also the overall C4I2 (Command, Control, Communications Computers, Information and Intelligence) system.&#8221;*

Gen J J Singh said that &#8220;modernisation of our Army is an ongoing process, periodically reviewed, to keep in step with operational imperatives that flow from our national security aspirations.

*&#8221; The important thing now is that there are rapid advances in weapons, protection against biochemical threats and state-of-the-art light weight communication equipment. It is a major step in our endeavour to make the infantry soldier contemporary, in accordance with the requirements of the modern-day battle environment.&#8221;*

As for threats to the security of India, the outgoing chief said that &#8220;changed security environment, defined by forces of globalisation, terrorism, Revolution in Military Affairs &#8211; to name a few &#8211; have had a profound effect on the way we perceive threats. Post KARGIL and Operation PARAKRAM, the emerging status of India in regional and global affairs, had accentuated the need for revisiting the doctrinal and operational concepts for the Army.

Gen J J Singh said that for an emerging modern military power to retain its strategic autonomy, self reliance and indigenisation were also a must. Therefore, considerable emphasis was being laid on encouraging indigenous development of equipment by our Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) independently as well as in partnership with private industry.

Gen J J Singh said that the Army&#8217;s vision was &#8220;to be an optimally equipped and weaponised force, with the capability to operate effectively in a joint services environment in the entire spectrum of conflict, in a regional context.&#8221;

He pointed out though that &#8220;irrespective of the advances in technology the man behind the machine will always retain primacy&#8230; Our junior leaders and soldiers will have to be trained to handle ambiguity in order to exploit situations in a fluid, fast paced battle.

&#8220;Senior commanders will have to develop the ability to sift speedily through information. These are some of the areas receiving our attention.&#8221;


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## godsavetheworld

*F-INSAS PROGRAMME:
ARMY PRESENTATION AT CII-NEW DELHI*

PowerPoint Presentation


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## Sargodhian_Eagle

By the way, India is equiping its armed forces for whch contury? If Pakistan then its very small contury n less equiped.
I think India is going to counter the China


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## Khajur

Sargodhian_Eagle said:


> By the way, India is equiping its armed forces for whch contury? If Pakistan then its very small contury n less equiped.
> I think India is going to counter the China



" *I think India is going to counter the China. *"

There should be no doubt about it.


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## Gabbar

> By the way, India is equiping its armed forces for whch contury? If Pakistan then its very small contury n less equiped.
> I think India is going to counter the China



There is nothing wrong with being prepaired for the worst. China and India are going to solve thier border problems peacfully. 
And remember you dont just get respect, you have to demand it.

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## Arun tevar

There r reports that the small arms system for F-INSAS are just going to be a future development of the israeli negev's etc in a joint development with israel.


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## BSF

> F-INSAS PROGRAMME:
> ARMY PRESENTATION AT CII-NEW DELHI
> 
> PowerPoint Presentation



Your link is not working.


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## Arun tevar

Tough I hope to see the F-INSAS within a few years,but I have been noticeing a lot of new camo patterns in use by our forces especially by our para comandos.I hope that its not the 1st phase of F-INSAS as they r not as grt as compared to other patterns being introduced around the world.They have high contrast and pixels and easily appear odd to the surrounding.Even the CHINESE digi camos r far better.


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## im zid

i think this is the first phase of the f-insas program 

these are the 1st Battalion, 1 Gorkhas Rifles on Exercise Shatrujeet 



for any one who would like 2 know the helmet and body armor is made by tata's advanced materials limited 

and the thing behind their head and the little black buttons are laser tags used for training since its training the guns fire blank rounds and laser rays(check out the end of the barrel)

the scope on the insas is a new upgrade its a 2.5X 400m daylight scope
check this out


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## IAF

Great to See that


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## Arun tevar

Frankly speaking,I am not impressed.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

A nuclear shock wave , will disintigrate all the F Insas Jawans , not sure what the fuss is about the F Insas project


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## Hulk

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> A nuclear shock wave , will disintigrate all the F Insas Jawans , not sure what the fuss is about the F Insas project



Do you mean to say we should throw everything that will not work in nuclear conflict. If that is the case advice PA because Indians can take care of their part.


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## Dark Angel

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> A nuclear shock wave , will disintigrate all the F Insas Jawans , not sure what the fuss is about the F Insas project




Ya right !! lets play a game called nuclear nuclear c'mmon it woulld be fun lets flip the coin to see whos chance it is to throw a bomb  why be such a nerd


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## faithfulguy

Khajur said:


> " *I think India is going to counter the China. *"
> 
> There should be no doubt about it.



I think India want to counter US and replace the US as the #1 superpower


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## zombie

faithfulguy said:


> I think India want to counter US and replace the US as the #1 superpower



You have a problem with that?


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## faithfulguy

zombie said:


> You have a problem with that?



First of all, how is India going to do it? That is the question. I'm an American working and supporting America. Are you an American or an India working to help contributing to US technological advances?


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## Hulk

faithfulguy said:


> I think India want to counter US and replace the US as the #1 superpower



Are you doing Phd on India? Then your sample is not right the people you have taken as Indians are Chinese dude. That was for fun. Now please leave Indians to decide what they want to do, we do not need anyone to talk our behalf. Let's talk about your country, which country you belong Tiwan?

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## zombie

faithfulguy said:


> First of all, how is India going to do it?



Thats for Indians to figure out and implement right? What was China a few years back


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## Hulk

faithfulguy said:


> First of all, how is India going to do it? That is the question. I'm an American working and supporting America. Are you an American or an India working to help contributing to US technological advances?



I have not seen many American's sufering from inferiarity complex.

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## faithfulguy

indianrabbit said:


> I have not seen many American's sufering from inferiarity complex.



I am interested in knowing whether people coming here to America and call America home would support America. America is a strong country externally but it can be defeated from within. So American must protect itself against enemies from within.


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## zombie

faithfulguy said:


> I am interested in knowing whether people coming here to America and call America home would support America. America is a strong country externally but it can be defeated from within. So American must protect itself against enemies from within.



So in case of US - China war who will you support?


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## Hulk

faithfulguy said:


> I am interested in knowing whether people coming here to America and call America home would support America. America is a strong country externally but it can be defeated from within. So American must protect itself against enemies from within.



Dude I am honest person and honestly I do not feel you are American by birth. India has not done anything against US, also you seems more inclined to China then US. The people of US as I know care less about what world thinks, and India surely does not worry them ( In terms of war).


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Dark Angel said:


> Ya right !! lets play a game called nuclear nuclear c'mmon it woulld be fun lets flip the coin to see whos chance it is to throw a bomb  why be such a nerd



You know I thought about it many times and every time , I come to same conclusion that in case of a real war - none of these conventional stuff will work - 

Nuclear card is the ultimate deterrant the sonner Indian and Pakistan will realize this and normalize their relations the better otherwise I mean you can have shoes that make you fly or cell phone that projects the plans on a tree trunk or fancy googles that can allow you to see distant objects 

But ..... would it matter ? when the big musroom cloud comes no .. 
so perhaps a rethink is needed

But yes the solider look 'cooler' but other then that there is no real advantage lol


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## Dark Angel

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> You know I thought about it many times and every time , I come to same conclusion that in case of a real war - none of these conventional stuff will work -
> 
> Nuclear card is the ultimate deterrant the sonner Indian and Pakistan will realize this and normalize their relations the better otherwise I mean you can have shoes that make you fly or cell phone that projects the plans on a tree trunk or fancy googles that can allow you to see distant objects
> 
> But ..... would it matter ? when the big musroom cloud comes no ..
> so perhaps a rethink is needed
> 
> But yes the solider look 'cooler' but other then that there is no real
> advantage lol




So according to you there shouldnt be any advancement in the feild of Defence cause both the countries have nuclear deterrence LOL.......

Always remember nuclear option is the last card in the deck for any gov in the world and can only be used if there is certain evidence that there is going to be a preemptive nuclear strike on them.If every tom,dick & harry would think like u we would surely have our @sses
baked...

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## Novice09

F-INSAS *F*uturistic *In*fantry *S*oldier *A*s a *S*ystem.

TATA's contribution


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## UchihaCG

Novice09 said:


> F-INSAS *F*uturistic *In*fantry *S*oldier *A*s a *S*ystem.
> 
> TATA's contribution



Does this mean we can beat Pakistani Army to pulp? 
not mean to be troll...


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## Novice09

UchihaCG said:


> Does this mean we can beat Pakistani Army to pulp?
> not mean to be troll...



I had provided the image showing TATA's contribution in this project.

*Does this mean we can beat Pakistani Army to pulp?*

Can't tell but surely it will provide an upper hand to IA. You can equip a soldier with XYZ but it is the courage on top which makes him victor.


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## UchihaCG

Novice09 said:


> I had provided the image showing TATA's contribution in this project.
> 
> *Does this mean we can beat Pakistani Army to pulp?*
> 
> Can't tell but surely it will provide an upper hand to IA. You can equip a soldier with XYZ but it is the courage on top which makes him victor.



I bow to our Jawans 
Looking at the image, this seems like a quadruple multiplier to our Army's capability. Hopefully they'll initiate this process soon....


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## Spitfighter

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> You know I thought about it many times and every time , I come to same conclusion that in case of a real war - none of these conventional stuff will work -
> 
> Nuclear card is the ultimate deterrant the sonner Indian and Pakistan will realize this and normalize their relations the better otherwise I mean you can have shoes that make you fly or cell phone that projects the plans on a tree trunk or fancy googles that can allow you to see distant objects
> 
> But ..... would it matter ? when the big musroom cloud comes no ..
> so perhaps a rethink is needed
> 
> But yes the solider look 'cooler' but other then that there is no real advantage lol



Clearly then, you haven't been thinking hard enough. 

For starters, you don't understand the concept of nuclear deterrence. Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is meant to counter our own, meaning that Pakistan will launch its nukes if... 

a) its existence is threatened, thereby implying that your military has been decimated and Pakistan faces extinction or b) India strikes Pakistan first (not likely, since we don't need nukes to subdue Pakistan). 

I don't want to get into specifics so I suggest you do some research, but understand that in our case (and everyone else's except the US and Russia) nuclear weapons are meant to deter the 'other guy' from destroying your country or using nuclear weapons against you. 

China has 200 nukes, England and France have a 100 nukes each, that's peanuts compared to the thousands of nukes owned by the US and Russia yet they are enough to cause 'unacceptable damage'. Therefore no country in their right mind would dare threaten the existence or use nuclear weapons against any of the above mentioned countries. 

The only reason Pakistan has nukes is to safeguard its existence because conventionally Pakistan is no match for India. period. If nuclear weapons are used, it would spell the end of Pakistan, which defeats the entire purpose of having nukes in the first place, thus if nukes are used, they will be used by the losing side first and more importantly they will be used as a* last resort*. 

In simple words, if Pakistan launches its nukes, it has already lost the war. 

I understand that Pakistanis are quite proud of their nukes, but before you beat your chest any further, let me remind you that nuclear weapons cannot stop conventional wars, so it does matter if you have shoes that can make you fly. If the INSAS program works out the way it should, Pakistan will be at a serious disadvantage if god forbid we do go to war. Although I should mention that by bringing 'nukes' up at every given occasion, Pakistanis acknowledge that they simply stand no chance against India in a conventional war. Quite flattering, given how laid back our defense establishment is.

I'm all for the INSAS program, but as of now we need to focus on building up our covert capabilities. We need to hunt and kill anyone and everyone that seeks to harm innocent civilians. RAW needs to be kicked out of it slumber and put to work. They've made a right mockery out of the nation, we need to answer the terrorists in the only language they understand.

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## deckingraj

Spitfighter said:


> I'm all for the INSAS program, but as of now we need to focus on building up our covert capabilities. We need to hunt and kill anyone and everyone that seeks to harm innocent civilians. RAW needs to be kicked out of it slumber and put to work. They've made a right mockery out of the nation, we need to answer the terrorists in the only language they understand.





This is the key...F-Insas is really good however we all know that war is not an option...So we should ensure that we are as good in covert operations across the border...If for some reasons we believe Pak govt is not doing enough agaisnt pigs like Hafiz Saeed etc then we should be capable enough to eliminate them....Honestly to me such capabilities are as important as INSAS...also the need of the hour given the circumstances in the region


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## gogbot

Spitfighter said:


> I'm all for the INSAS program, but as of now we need to focus on building up our covert capabilities. We need to hunt and kill anyone and everyone that seeks to harm innocent civilians. RAW needs to be kicked out of it slumber and put to work. They've made a right mockery out of the nation, we need to answer the terrorists in the only language they understand.



you know that's a good thing.

The less you hear about Intelligence agencies.
The better the job they are doing.

If you think RAW Has been inactive at any point you are deeply mistaken.

Check out this thread by Skull

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/40812-raw-ibs-biggest-anti-terror-covert-ops-abroad.html

And FWI

Once we Complete the F-INSAS programme our troops will have Unparalleled Awareness of the Battlefield and much greater capabilities.. Improving their Lethality by more than 200&#37;.


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## Join



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## sivadreams

This is really futuristic.. US ARMY is really well advanced.


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## ek_indian

gogbot said:


> If you think RAW Has been inactive at any point you are deeply mistaken.



I agree with this. This all depends on leadership at a given point of time. I mean RAW was authorised for a task, it did its job that too brilliantly. But we can not expect same outcome from Indira Gandhi D)and Morarji Desai suicide both.

RAW is certainly among the best in the lot (I am not over hyping this). But they are not rouge or say "too independent". They are answerable and they follow orders. If they are denied for anything, it would not be nice to blame RAW for this. 

Though I admit Kargil was a failure of RAW. However RAW said it passed information regarding this. Even for 26/11, both IB and RAW said they informed their bosses. Bloody politicians!!

Hope you got my point.

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## sivadreams

ek_indian said:


> I agree with this. This all depends on leadership at a given point of time. I mean RAW was authorised for a task, it did its job that too brilliantly. But we can not expect same outcome from Indira Gandhi D)and Morarji Desai suicide both.
> 
> RAW is certainly among the best in the lot (I am not over hyping this). But they are not rouge or say "too independent". They are answerable and they follow orders. If they are denied for anything, it would not be nice to blame RAW for this.
> 
> Though I admit Kargil was a failure of RAW. However RAW said it passed information regarding this. Even for 26/11, both IB and RAW said they informed their bosses. Bloody politicians!!
> 
> Hope you got my point.




Its not that RAW is at fault for everything. But there should be more penetration at all levels and more field level agents should be employed. We do not also use the full capabilities of our satellites.

I remember during my intern days with ISRO. we did had projects running for spy satellites which can listen to almost every thing on a specific area. 

These are things which will make us more proactive...


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## ek_indian

sivadreams said:


> Its not that RAW is at fault for everything. But there should be more penetration at all levels and more field level agents should be employed. We do not also use the full capabilities of our satellites.
> 
> I remember during my intern days with ISRO. we did had projects running for spy satellites which can listen to almost every thing on a specific area.
> 
> These are things which will make us more proactive...



Agreed. However if a particular PM wants not to do some funny business, what can RAW do. We must remember how RAW lost its capabilities when IK Gujral (an example) became PM. 

I do not have any clue about its strength so can't say anything. But I am all for increasing agents. 

The big issue is not that RAW or IB is having _not-so-good _network or capabilities. IMO, the coordination between them is far more challenging issue in my view. RAW is having some information and IB is having some. But they are not sharing this to each other so no conclusive picture is drawn. This was clearly exposed in Mumbai attacks. However govt seem to start addressing this. 

Overall I agree with you. There is always chance for improvement. We should remember they are not superhumans either.

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## Hulk

I thought this was Insas thread, there is one open for RAW as well.


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## Iggy

Its nice to see private firms like TATA has actively participate in this project..it will help meet the deadline to a certain extent


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## IBRIS

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1091104/jsp/nation/story_11697056.jsp
*Army chief signals long-drawn offensive*
LCD on new INSAS for cornershot


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## gogbot

IBRIS said:


> The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Nation | Army chief signals long-drawn offensive
> *Army chief signals long-drawn offensive*
> LCD on new INSAS for cornershot



Interesting, but it seems to have been rejected(there was apparently one variant of the INSAS Rifle rejected during its first trial). As the are is after a new corner shot system.

Phase 1 of the F-INSAS program involves a new weapons system(gun).
Hopefully bulp-up, which can be adjusted for both left handed and Right handed soldiers. As well as a range finder Air busting grenade attachment.


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## beckham

gogbot said:


> Interesting, but it seems to have been rejected(there was apparently one variant of the INSAS Rifle rejected during its first trial). As the are is after a new corner shot system.
> 
> Phase 1 of the F-INSAS program involves a new weapons system(gun).
> Hopefully bulp-up, which can be adjusted for both left handed and Right handed soldiers. As well as a range finder Air busting grenade attachment.



I don't hope so gogbot, the rejected variant was a bull-pup !  It could be a cost effective alternative to Corner-Shot which costs between 4000$-6000$.



^rejected variant


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## beckham

*The new multi caliber individual weapon system for Insas might look similiar to xm-25 and K11. There have been reports of two types of next generation infantry rifle under development in cooperation with Israel.*










*Specifications:

*Multi caliber individual weapon (5.56 mm, a 7.62 mm and a new 6.8 mm) with fourth caliber attached to a grenade launcher.

*UBGL capable of launching air burst grenades.

*Thermal weapon sight and laser range finder.

*GPS location information, allows the soldier to call for indirect fire.*

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## gogbot

beckham said:


> *The new multi caliber individual weapon system for Insas might look similiar to xm-25 and K11. There have been reports of two types of next generation infantry rifle under development in cooperation with Israel.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Specifications:
> 
> *Multi caliber individual weapon (5.56 mm, a 7.62 mm and a new 6.8 mm) with fourth caliber attached to a grenade launcher.
> 
> *UBGL capable of launching air burst grenades.
> 
> *Thermal weapon sight and laser range finder.
> 
> *GPS location information, allows the soldier to call for indirect fire.*



I certainly hope this will be the case.

We have an opportunity to induct a 21st century Service rifle.
IA should capitalize on this and get a robust and lethal system.

The new French rifle in development seems to be a sign of things to come.

PAPOP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hopefully we can incorporate some of the new technology into a Solid system.








> The weapons sub-system is built around a multi caliber individual weapon system with the fourth caliber attached to a grenade launcher. These include a 5.56 mm, a 7.62 mm and a new 6.8 mm under-development for the first time in India. The UBGL (Under Barrel Grenade Launcher) will be capable of launching air bursting grenade. The sub-system includes a thermal weapon sight and laser range finder to provide the soldier with range and direction information. The Global Positioning System (GPS) location information, allows the soldier can call for indirect fire accurately. There are two types of next generation infantry rifle under development in cooperation with Israel.

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## amarnath

beckham said:


> *The new multi caliber individual weapon system for Insas might look similiar to xm-25 and K11. There have been reports of two types of next generation infantry rifle under development in cooperation with Israel.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Specifications:
> 
> *Multi caliber individual weapon (5.56 mm, a 7.62 mm and a new 6.8 mm) with fourth caliber attached to a grenade launcher.
> 
> *UBGL capable of launching air burst grenades.
> 
> *Thermal weapon sight and laser range finder.
> 
> *GPS location information, allows the soldier to call for indirect fire.*



Has anyone got any new updates about this project? What kind of body armour are they planning to have?


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## gogbot

amarnath said:


> Has anyone got any new updates about this project? What kind of body armour are they planning to have?



The body armor is not part of the first phase of the project.

Phase 1 only involves a new weapons system


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## Akshat Mehendale

this whole plan is great!!


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## KEETARP

I hope , i will get it in my Field posting although it will be for infantry strictly but on a mission Doctor has dual responsibility - Keeping the troops and combat as well .


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## angeldemon_007

LCD on INSAS ??/ Its creapy and funny....what are they trying to do ??/


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## Kinetic

angeldemon_007 said:


> LCD on INSAS ??/ Its creapy and funny....what are they trying to do ??/



It is a tech demonstrator. F-INSAS has different rifles.


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## angeldemon_007

It was just a statement of dis-satisfaction....


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## angeldemon_007

Any progress on FINSAS. I thought DRDO was developing the rifle for that with the help of Israel but i disturbing article on the net. It stated that :



> Meanwhile, the OFB has planned a project to make future INSAS rifles in collaboration with Israel. But the project is now stuck as the Israeli partner is blacklisted by the Ministry of Defence following the arrest of a former OFB chief on charges of corruption.



Also now news indicates first phase of FINSAS will be ready by 2012. I think we should just start to induct whatever is ready for our soldier. I am curious who is handling the dress and bullet-proof jackets ??/

I recently heard reports that army is looking for jackets. In my opinion if we ultimately wanted to buy the jackets from a foreign vendor for FINSAS, then this could have done in 2003 when this concept was first discussed.


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## Water Car Engineer

angeldemon_007 said:


> Any progress on FINSAS. I thought DRDO was developing the rifle for that with the help of Israel but i disturbing article on the net. It stated that :
> 
> 
> 
> Also now news indicates first phase of FINSAS will be ready by 2012. I think we should just start to induct whatever is ready for our soldier. I am curious who is handling the dress and bullet-proof jackets ??/
> 
> I recently heard reports that army is looking for jackets. In my opinion if we ultimately wanted to buy the jackets from a foreign vendor for FINSAS, then this could have done in 2003 when this concept was first discussed.



India has given up on making its own rifle and plans to buy and replace INSAS.

Also recent news said ballistic helmets and bullet proof jackets for the common Indian soldiers.


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## CONNAN

2011 now any updates please


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## illuminatidinesh

It is the simple fact that we are going into the right path with all the defence procruments is important. Now the long standing aim of getting something for the foot soldiers has taken pace......
The new decade is going to be completely a benifit for our armed forces.


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## angeldemon_007

> India has given up on making its own rifle and plans to buy and replace INSAS.


Its not possible...India will develop rifle with the help of Israelis although i think the process is stuck. We are buying Rifles for our special forces. Replacing INSAS from direct purchase from a foreign company would be too expensive because of the size of our army.



> Also recent news said ballistic helmets and bullet proof jackets for the common Indian soldiers.


Yeah thats true...But in that also we will buy 35-45% and rest will be build through licensed production in our ordinance factories.


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## Water Car Engineer

angeldemon_007 said:


> Its not possible..*.India will develop rifle with the help of Israelis although i think the process is stuck.* We are buying Rifles for our special forces. Replacing INSAS from direct purchase from a foreign company would be too expensive because of the size of our army.
> 
> 
> Yeah thats true...But in that also we will buy 35-45% and rest will be build through licensed production in our ordinance factories.



*Indian Army Scouts For F-INSAS Assault Rifle*



> *As part of the Indian Army's phased future infantry soldier as a system (F-INSAS) programme to create a fully integrated infantry soldier, Army HQ has floated requirements for a new assault rifle that will, potentially, be license-built in large numbers. A questionaire provided with RFI points to what the Army is looking for in its new ambidextrous assault rifle:
> *
> The Army has put down its preference for a modular assault rifle with changeable multiple caliber barrels to support 5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm, 7.62x51mm, 6.8x43mm and 6.5 Grendel rounds. The rifle needs to have an integrated sighting system that includes a luminous tipped flip-up iron sight, telescopic sight and a holographic reflex sight with a visible laser illuminator. It clearly wants an advanced under-barrel grenade launcher with a standalone firing mode governed by a multipurpose fire control system.



http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/12/indian-army-scouts-for-f-insas-assault.html

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## angeldemon_007

> Indian Army Scouts For F-INSAS Assault Rifle


Yeah I also read this. Its disturbing but hard to believe because its not like our policy.


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## angeldemon_007

These are US Army special forces (Delta Force):


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## angeldemon_007

Indian army Special Forces and Rashtriya Rifles

































They are also getting deadlier and deadlier. Are these new induction part of FINSAS ? If not I really hope our Army's Special forces be equipped like US or UK Army special forces soon.


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## GareebNawaz

^^ so what are you trying to prove?


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## angeldemon_007

> so what are you trying to prove?


Nothing.... I just told they are getting lethal and lethal and asked a simple question seeing the modernization in the army, Are these new induction part of FINSAS ?

Are you really Indian ??/ If you are one more Pakistani who likes Indian flag on its profile, then I have one answer : Man go away, its not meant to offend you in any way. These soldiers are doing the same job as your soldiers are doing.


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## boris

angeldemon_007 said:


> These are US Army special forces (Delta Force):



the 1st photo is of green berets,the 2nd one are SEALS,the last 2 maybe delta,all delta photos have blurred/hidden faces
delta,devgru are the most secretive us special forces units.


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## angeldemon_007

> the 1st photo is of green berets,the 2nd one are SEALS,the last 2 maybe delta,all delta photos have blurred/hidden faces


2nd one i agree but i don't know about first, I just saw it on net. My point was how well equipped are the US special forces.


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## boris

from communications to weapons american SF are very well equipped.also i said in a thread that many private firms do R&D specially for SF units there,the SF tests them and if they say yes this is a useful weapon it is inducted in small or large numbers,in almost all SF the operator has a choice of which weapon and in what configuration(kind of scope,sights,grids)he wants to carry.almost all good SF units as far as weapons are concerned are almost equal,technology gap comes in communication devices and other forms of support for eg. in tora bora delta's had the communication and air support to a level if they wanted air support they'd have it in 20 minutes.

coming to the photos the first one is a natgeo photo of the green berets,in afghanistan AFAIK teams of delta's along with the SAS/SBS were all in plain clothes and grew beards and wore afghan hats to look a little afghan and blend in,no matter what the world says about them they did a hell of a job in afghanistan specially in the battle of tora bora in dec 2001 were they were some 800m around bin laden on the peaks but laden escaped as some of their good tactics got dissaproved.

also now after 26/11 as far as weaponry goes and other stuff like NVG,sights and all indian SF(MARCOS and para)are as well equipped as the israeli's.


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## boris

also notice in the 1st photo the 2nd one from the left is using an M14 a very old rifle hence in SF its all about which weapon you adapt best to


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## boris

looking at the tender i dont think its the army's request but more of DOD as no rifle can change that many caliber's ,FN SCAR can change to 5.56 or NATO 7.62 
still this are my choices

1) caliber change one - FN SCAR
2)multiple roles - LWRC SABR(7.62 NATO not to be confused with 7.62 x 39)
3) only 5.56 - HK 416
4) for 6.8 ammo - LWRC PSD,lwrc M6A1

looking at the tender i think tavor is to become the standard rifle for indian SF just like the insas in normal infantry regiments

also all the rifles are going to be imported ,only the ammo will be produced by OFB,even in tavor its only the CQB version the zittara produced here(zittara accepts indigenous 5.56 x 30 MINSAS round the same for the MSMC )

para SF is using the assault rifle version of tavor, all imported ones.


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## GareebNawaz

angeldemon_007 said:


> Nothing.... I just told they are getting lethal and lethal and asked a simple question seeing the modernization in the army, Are these new induction part of FINSAS ?
> 
> Are you really Indian ??/ If you are one more Pakistani who likes Indian flag on its profile, then I have one answer : Man go away, its not meant to offend you in any way. These soldiers are doing the same job as your soldiers are doing.


First don't ever call me Pakistani. You just ruined my day. Second I thought you were trying to show Indian paras are inferior to the yanks. I am a big skeptic about Indian military, but I still deeply respect them as many of my family members are in the navy and army... Third are those pataka helmets very good at protecting the soldier?


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## angeldemon_007

> looking at the tender i think tavor is to become the standard rifle for indian SF


I think its already being declared. 



> even in tavor its only the CQB version the zittara produced here(zittara accepts indigenous 5.56 x 30 MINSAS round the same for the MSMC )


Does anybody use Zittara and MSMC ??/


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## Water Car Engineer

> Third are those pataka helmets very good at protecting the soldier?



Ballistic helmets > Pataka helimet.

Indian army and special forces need ballistic helmets, not these star wars helmets.


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## boris

GareebNawaz said:


> First don't ever call me Pakistani. You just ruined my day. Second I thought you were trying to show Indian paras are inferior to the yanks. I am a big skeptic about Indian military, but I still deeply respect them as many of my family members are in the navy and army... Third are those pataka helmets very good at protecting the soldier?



they have kevlar layers and are bulletproof.


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## IndianArmy

*Any Fair Idea What this is??
*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## boris

IndianArmy said:


> *Any Fair Idea What this is??
> *



looking at the oxygen mask i presume its one of the two things ,one either to be used in case of chemical weapons by forces or to be used by SF,paratrooper units for HALO/HAHO jumps from 30000 ft as oxygen masks with such helmets in configuration are used in such jumps.


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## boris

but looking at the entire system more deeply i think its for HALO/HAHO jumps


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## IndianArmy

Oh Yeah I only Saw ADRDE, I was Confused as to what have they come up with , Then I noticed DEBEL , and Its Obvious Of them to Make such Life supporting Systems...


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## angeldemon_007

> First don't ever call me Pakistani


. 
Sorry....


> Second I thought you were trying to show Indian paras are inferior to the yanks.


No, I my actual message was our special forces are no less than any others but apart from weapons they don't have modern gadget especially for communication, GPS etc. which they should be provided.


> Third are those pataka helmets very good at protecting the soldier?


Its especially meant for AK-47 which is standard arm of terrorist.



> Any Fair Idea What this is??


It looks like a complete kit for Paratroopers...


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## Water Car Engineer

> Its especially meant for AK-47 which is standard arm of terrorist.




I seriously doubt this can stop an AK-A7 round.






Maybe this is better?


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## boris

Liquid said:


> I seriously doubt this can stop an AK-A7 round.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this is better?



i am very much in agreement wih you but almost all combat personnel from special forces units have been given ballistic helmets.


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## Kinetic

IndianArmy said:


> *Any Fair Idea What this is??
> *



Wonderful pic. Two possibilities...

1) NBC warfare.
2) HALO/HAHO jumps. 

Here it is most possibly second one.


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## IndianArmy

Kinetic said:


> Wonderful pic. Two possibilities...
> 
> 1) NBC warfare.
> 2) HALO/HAHO jumps.
> 
> Here it is most possibly second one.



Its the Second One, NBC Suits Dont look like those....


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## angeldemon_007

> I seriously doubt this can stop an AK-A7 round.


Look man whatever you think but its true and thats why IA use it, also it is comfortable for Sikh soldiers.
Here is the description from the official website.


> The PATKA are available for Soldiers and Officers. Having protection for 9 mm at rear from 10 mtrs. And from 25 mtrc. AK47 or SLR at forehead. The weight of PATKA will be approx. 1.4 kg to 1.7 kg.


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## baker

*Indian Soldier to Be Equipped with Modular Bullet-Proof Vests*



> India Defence Online, New Delhi  After having faced major criticism for the sad state of military gear that the Indian soldier is equipped with, the Indian Army will soon import modular light-weight bullet-proof jackets and ballistic helmets with internal communication gear. The need for better body and head armour for the soldier has been heightened due to the continual counter-insurgency operations in the country.
> 
> According to the Indian Army, the General Staff Qualitative Requirements (GSQRs) has been remodelled and modular jackets will be imported from potential foreign vendors. The trials for the same will be conducted at the Terminal Ballistics Research Laboratory, Chandigarh and later in Rajasthan deserts and mountains of Jammu and Kashmir. *The Indian Army will be equipped by these modern bullet-proof jackets by 2012.*
> 
> Apparently, over ten companies have elicited their interest in supplying these modular jackets and the Indian Armys tender indicates that 150,000 bullet-proof jackets will be inducted in the first phase and another 180,000 will be acquired in the second round.
> 
> The new bullet-proof jackets will be ergonomically designed, light-weight, modular and fitted to ensure agility and maximum protection. Two kinds of jackets are being envisaged by the Indian Army. For a low threat perception mission, *the jacket will weigh less than 4 kilograms and have a trauma pad with a soft armour plate all around *it and a high threat mission jacket which will weigh 10.5-11.5 kilograms with hard armour plates all around it. The latter will provide protection against 7.62mm x 39mm mild steel core ammunition fired from an AK-47 from 10 meters. Unlike the conventional bullet-proof jackets, these vests can be taken off part by part depending on the mission of the soldiers.
> 
> According to the report by the Parliamentary Panel, the Indian Army was short of 1,86,138 bullet-proof jackets despite being authorized 3,53,765 new ones way back in March 2004. Besides that, the current bullet-proof vests weigh over 11 kilogram thereby hampering the agility of the soldier who carries other equipment as well. These new acquisitions by the Indian Army are crucial to plug the gaps in its operational capability and enable effective and decisive actions in response to hostile situations.



it is seems to be like all the F-INSAS equipments are going to be imported one....


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## beckham

> Wonderful pic. Two possibilities...
> 
> 1) NBC warfare.
> 2) HALO/HAHO jumps.
> 
> Here it is most possibly second one.



Second one...


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## FNFAL

cool seeing RR with tavors impressed me,for now i believe GOI is serious with deployment of tavors.
The more our men get familiar with future weapons, the deadlier they will be when the time comes calling.


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## boris

FNFAL said:


> cool seeing RR with tavors impressed me,for now i believe GOI is serious with deployment of tavors.
> The more our men get familiar with future weapons, the deadlier they will be when the time comes calling.



the condition after 26/11 is such that if para sf,MARCOS,garuds,NSG feel such a thing is important and needed to combat terror they are getting it.


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## IND151

news of day


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

IndianArmy said:


> *Any Fair Idea What this is??
> *



 Some of the guys putting NBC suit as a option were really funny...just look at the suit guys..its open at the neck,under the helmet and it is not air tight and water proof...how can it be NBC suit???

That thing is for HALO which stands for High Altitude Low Opening..if they dont used the oxygen cyclinders it will result in hypoxia and will be unable to open their parachute.


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## angeldemon_007

I don't know whether you guys have heard about it...


> *Israeli arms give CRPF the edge in Jangalmahal*
> 
> KOLKATA: The Army's special forces were the first to receive them. It was then the turn of security personnel in J&K. Finally, CRPF personnel operating in Maoist-infested Lalgarh have got access to sophisticated weapons imported from Israel.
> 
> Senior officials believe that the 5.56mm Tavor guns, manufactured by Israel Weapon Industries Ltd (IWI), will give their men that much-needed edge over the guerrillas who use the terrain to their advantage. The INSAS, AK-47 or 7.62 mm SLR used by the CRPF till now have not proved to be too effective in close quarter battles (CQB). Indian ordnance factories have been trying to come up with an effective solution, but their latest products have not yet cleared field trials by the armed forces.
> 
> In 2009, Union home minister P Chidambaram cleared the procurement of 10,147 assault rifles from IWI in a `144-crore deal. The defence ministry had also imported similar weapons for use by its special forces.
> 
> "The INSAS is a good weapon for an infantry soldier. However, it is too cumbersome for personnel involved in counter-insurgency operations. The AK-47s are easier to carry, but are not accurate enough. The weapons imported from Israel are not only accurate and lightweight, they also have a rate of fire to match the AK-47s. They are ideally suited for the CQB environment when personnel have only a spilt second to react," an official said.
> 
> Fitted with special sights, it doesn't take long to aim the Israeli guns before firing. Unlike the AK-47s and SLRs, these weapons use 5.56mm ammunition, similar to the INSAS. Platoons no longer have to carry different types of ammunition.
> 
> "These are ambidextrous weapons that can be used with both hands. They have integral reflex sights that allows a jawan to aim with both eyes open. They are good for both day and night operations," the official said.
> 
> According to experts in the defence ministry, the Israeli weapons are unlike anything that have been used by Indian troops. These are the only weapons that have the characteristic 'Bull Pup' design. This design makes these weapons extremely useful for special forces and troops involved in counter-insurgency the world over.
> 
> "Unlike weapons used by Indian forces so far, these guns have their magazines behind the trigger. As a result, the centre of gravity is to the rear and the barrels point upward even when the weapons are not in use. In case of emergency, it is far easier to bring the barrel down and fire the weapons. In other rifles, the barrels have a tendency to point downward," an Army officer involved in the training of special forces said.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## archangel

Liquid said:


> I seriously doubt this can stop an AK-A7 round.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this is better?


 
Buddy, let me make you absolutely clear about armours... Have you even seen how big a 7.62 round is, which is used in AK-47s, which in-turn is used by the Terrorists.... Believe it or not, it is capable of penetrating through most parts of a helicopter and you are expecting it to not pass through some "cool" looking Ballistic Helmet?????

Ballistic Helmet means its made up of Ballistic Materials like Kevlar, not that it would necessarily protect you from bullet rounds.... I'm quoting this because I've seen military experts show this.... He fired at a German World War 2 Helmet and one at the modern US army Ballistic Helmet and guess what happened!!!!! The bullet made a bump(a big one actually) in the Helmet which won't kill you but live you capable of doing nothing for the rest of your life but on the contrary, the Ballistic Helmet got penetrated and the bullet also managed to exit out of the other end, which as we all know is an instant kill..........

Now, the question of Patka Vs Ballistic Helmet.... Patka loses out on the fact that it provides no rear or side protections yet its design enables better armoring because of the space created due its flat/cylindrical design as compared to the Ballistic Helmets swept/curved/hemispherical design....

So, no helmet can ensure you protection from an AK-47... Only you, wearing the right thing at the right time at the right place is your only hope....

Even if you see companies claiming and showing videos of their Product's Toughness, or durability or bullet stopping capability, always remember that it was conducted in a simulated and controlled environment, whether they show it in a desert, or forest or anything.... Its kind of like your bike.... The manufacturer claims 90kmpl, yet it gives out only about 60-65kmpl... just the difference is that here, there is either life or death.... 











[Please Note- These Videos don't belong to me, so I cannot tell you anything about the conditions in which they took place... Yet, they help you have a basic idea regarding my statements made above...]


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## Water Car Engineer

archangel said:


> Buddy, let me make you absolutely clear about armours... Have you even seen how big a 7.62 round is, which is used in AK-47s, which in-turn is used by the Terrorists.... Believe it or not, it is capable of penetrating through most parts of a helicopter and you are expecting it to not pass through some "cool" looking Ballistic Helmet?????
> 
> Ballistic Helmet means its made up of Ballistic Materials like Kevlar, not that it would necessarily protect you from bullet rounds.... I'm quoting this because I've seen military experts show this.... He fired at a German World War 2 Helmet and one at the modern US army Ballistic Helmet and guess what happened!!!!! The bullet made a bump(a big one actually) in the Helmet which won't kill you but live you capable of doing nothing for the rest of your life but on the contrary, the Ballistic Helmet got penetrated and the bullet also managed to exit out of the other end, which as we all know is an instant kill..........
> 
> Now, the question of Patka Vs Ballistic Helmet.... Patka loses out on the fact that it provides no rear or side protections yet its design enables better armoring because of the space created due its flat/cylindrical design as compared to the Ballistic Helmets swept/curved/hemispherical design....
> 
> So, no helmet can ensure you protection from an AK-47... Only you, wearing the right thing at the right time at the right place is your only hope....
> 
> Even if you see companies claiming and showing videos of their Product's Toughness, or durability or bullet stopping capability, always remember that it was conducted in a simulated and controlled environment, whether they show it in a desert, or forest or anything.... Its kind of like your bike.... The manufacturer claims 90kmpl, yet it gives out only about 60-65kmpl... just the difference is that here, there is either life or death....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Please Note- These Videos don't belong to me, so I cannot tell you anything about the conditions in which they took place... Yet, they help you have a basic idea regarding my statements made above...]


 
It was said here that the patka helmet can stop an ak round on the forehead area, which I don't believe. And maybe Ballistic helmets are better for the soldiers.


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## vidyanshu

indian armed forces will be much capable in future to beat pak.
eg-

army--
INDIA PAKISTAN

strength india leads.
weapons, artillery, missiles and other technology india leads
india will have FINSAS but pakistan ....normal.


air force--

INDIA PAKISTAN


FGFA-250 F16- 63
AMCA-250 J-10- 150
SUKHOI 30- 270 JF-17- 250
MMRCA- 126/200
MIG-29- 69
MIRAGE- 51
TEJAS- 220



NAVY-- 

NO NEED TO COMPARE.. SEE ON WIKIPEDIA INDIAN NAVY AND
ITS FUTURE EXPANSION..





Now coming to nukes.. 

If pak deploys all its nukes on India 40% india will be damaged..

BUT IF INDIA DOES SAME PAKISTAN WILL VANISH 4 TIMES..


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## Kinetic

Waiting for these three very eagerly...

PAD test
Agni-V test
F-INSAS induction


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## Abingdonboy

Any idea on F-INSAS? Why the high level of secrecy? I mean we barely know what the system will look like, what weapon is being developed or procured. There is lots of rumors going around of JV with Isreal and a 1,000,000 rifle purchse from abroad. Why hasn't DRDO said here's what we are doing, here's what it will look like and here's when it will be done. Instead we are left to speculate on the tiny rickle of information they occasionally share.


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Yeah its rumored that 2 weapon system are developed by drdo in collaboration with israel but i think as usual there are delays and thats why we are not listening anything about this. We are working only on 2 things : (1) multi-Caliber Individual Weapon System (2) Air Bursting Grenade for Individual Weapon...


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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> Yeah its rumored that 2 weapon system are developed by drdo in collaboration with israel but i think as usual there are delays and thats why we are not listening anything about this. We are working only on 2 things : (1) multi-Caliber Individual Weapon System (2) Air Bursting Grenade for Individual Weapon...


 

not to mention all the other non-weapon related stuff that makes up F-INSAS: HMDS, GPS, HAND-HELD COMPUTER,HEALTH MONITORING VEST, LIGHTWEIGHT BPJ ETC.


----------



## Kinetic

Abingdonboy said:


> not to mention all the other non-weapon related stuff that makes up F-INSAS: HMDS, GPS, HAND-HELD COMPUTER,HEALTH MONITORING VEST, LIGHTWEIGHT BPJ ETC.


 
All are developed, they undergoing various stages of trial. Its the largest Indian defence project ever.


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## angeldemon_007

> All are developed, they undergoing various stages of trial. Its the largest Indian defence project ever.


Seriuosly ? Any source ? Is there any indication of new bulletproof jacket with sensors being under trials also ? And what about DRDO-Israel multi-caliber assault rifle ? I thought it was delayed but if you have any info please share with us...

HMDS ???/ HMDS is also part of FINSAS ?/


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## baker

sad but... our foot soldiers are most ignored in all sectors.... but these are the people who bring glory to us during war......


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Army is serious about spending money on this project but the vendors will have to provide a good solution for the customer...


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## Omega007

I am sure no matter how capable systems DRDO will provide,army will still reject them in favour of foreign systems.Hopeless.


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## danger007

self deleted


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## danger007

self deleted


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## danger007

self deleted


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## Omega007

danger007 said:


> self deleted


 
Forget about that poor tunel rat man.Just think about the morale of an army who openly says we will nuke enemy in the first day of war!That means they too have been demoralised and believe that in a conventional battle against us,they will be pulverised in a matter of weeks.I think he too is scared,otherways he would not have told such a ridiculous words.
REGARDS....


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Look at the level of their morale...they are ready to bomb themselves with their new short range nukes.

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## Omega007

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> Look at the level of their morale...they are ready to bomb themselves with their new short range nukes.


 
Hahahahahahahaha!good one mate.But frankly,they have no other option.They are atleast honest and have the guts to say that they can't win or should I say 'defend'themselves against indian armed forces.We should appreciate that.lol.

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## IND151

at least 5 divisions of Indian army should be equipped with F INSAS.


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## Omega007

IND151 said:


> at least 5 divisions of Indian army should be equipped with F INSAS.


 
Hey man,Indian Army has already planned to bring every individual infantryman under F INSAS programme by 2025.
REGARDS....

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## Break the Silence

What I observed in this "dig out " thread, there were some Indians who are banned!!


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## danger007

Omega007 said:


> Forget about that poor tunel rat man.Just think about the morale of an army who openly says we will nuke enemy in the first day of war!That means they too have been demoralised and believe in a conventional battle against us,they will be pulverised in a matter of weeks.I think he too is scared,otherways he would not have told such a ridiculus words.
> REGARDS....


 
what do you mean by iratman i havent seen the date. i thought it was new thread. mind your words before posting


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Actually they plan to equip everyone with FINSAS by 2020 but i think some basic stuff should at-least reach everyone by 2020 like weapon system, BP jacket and helmet.

IA will soon be placing order for 500-600 MAVs and i think it might be part of FINSAS.


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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


> Seriuosly ? Any source ? Is there any indication of new bulletproof jacket with sensors being under trials also ? And what about DRDO-Israel multi-caliber assault rifle ? I thought it was delayed but if you have any info please share with us...
> 
> HMDS ???/ HMDS is also part of FINSAS ?/







(this is US army for eg)

As seen:





It's a monocle that projects a screen in front of the soldier's eye. 




+ anyway equipping the ENTIRE IA is ambitious especially by 2020. And it's got to be incredibly expensive- giving every infantry man in the largest volunteer Army the world has ever seen with $5000- 15000 worth of equipment. (an estimate).


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Yeah it will be expensive and i never said that its not ambitious to meet the deadline. IA has already said they will be spending billions on this. I just hope that some basic stuff reach to every soldier in this timeline like new BP vests, helmets and new multi-caliber assault rifles which drdo is developing with Israel.


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## Water Car Engineer

This is the only thing I really, really, really have been waiting for. And its 2011, and no rifle yet.


All I see is some random schemes in events like AERO India and other events. I just want to see a new rifle.


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## baker

i feel our locally produced Tavour can be replaced for INSAS ............


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## Omega007

I think its time to induct assault rifle that use 7.62*51 mm NATO rounds due to increasing use of body armor by the armies.5.56 mm rounds just don't pack the punch against armored enemies at longer distance.
REGARDS....


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## Omega007

danger007 said:


> what do you mean by iratman i havent seen the date. i thought it was new thread. mind your words before posting


 
PLEASE make it clear what did you want to say.


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## Abingdonboy

Omega007 said:


> I think its time to induct assault rifle that use 7.62*51 mm NATO rounds due to increasing use of body armor by the armies.5.56 mm rounds just don't pack the punch against armored enemies at longer distance.
> REGARDS....


 
This has long been a major debating block amongst modern armies- the firepower of the 7.62mm vs the range and accuracy of the 5.56mm. It is a fact that most modern, Western armies now use 5.56mm as their standard round (including btw the IA, INSAS.) but work is being done, especially by US, to get the best of both worlds and as such the 6.8mm has been developed. Although I'm not sure if anyone, as yet, uses this in operations.


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## Omega007

Abingdonboy said:


> This has long been a major debating block amongst modern armies- the firepower of the 7.62mm vs the range and accuracy of the 5.56mm. It is a fact that most modern, Western armies now use 5.56mm as their standard round (including btw the IA, INSAS.) but work is being done, especially by US, to get the best of both worlds and as such the 6.8mm has been developed. Although I'm not sure if anyone, as yet, uses this in operations.


 
Yeah I know that despite the range and stopping power advantage the 7.62 mm nato rounds are very hard to control in full auto mode.That's why armies are now using 5.56 mm rounds in individual assault rifles.
REGARDS....


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## angeldemon_007

Any news on the 2 assault rifles that DRDO is developing for FINSAS ? If the 1st phase is to finish by 2012 then by now the rifle should atleast come out of the curtain. Is there any reports of delay on rifle project ?


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## Omega007

Nope,no news buddy.Just blanck.I think they have learned to keep it secret until right time comes.
REGARDS....


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## angeldemon_007

Guys this is an old pic. Earlier i just thought it might a different gun but i have to ask...







Can anybody tell me which gun is this ? It looks like corner-shot but the fellow standing next to the guy with the gun was in FINSAS program. Is it possible that this is one of the 2 assault rifles being developed by DRDO ? Anyone who went to defexpo can throw some light on this...


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## Omega007

angeldemon_007 said:


> Guys this is an old pic. Earlier i just thought it might a different gun but i have to ask...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anybody tell me which gun is this ? It looks like corner-shot but the fellow standing next to the guy with the gun was in FINSAS program. Is it possible that this is one of the 2 assault rifles being developed by DRDO ? Anyone who went to defexpo can throw some light on this...


 
This is no doubt a corner-shot,not a FINSAS rifle.A glimse of a model of the multi caliber rifle was shown only once in the FINSAS video in the hands of a dummy model.And that is the only model released so far.
REGARDS....


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## rajusri

Omega007 said:


> This is no doubt a corner-shot,not a FINSAS rifle.A glimse of a model of the multi caliber rifle was shown only once in the FINSAS video in the hands of a dummy model.And that is the only model released so far.
> REGARDS....


 
This is not corner shot. it is different.


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## rajusri




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## Abingdonboy

rajusri said:


>


 
The top pic is not part of F-INSAS program, but just a private company displaying their own tech. The picture behind the MSMC is of F-INSAS rifle and program. 





^^^ and that is CornerShot- it is not the main rifle of F-INSAS but there was news that IA especially SF were interested in a large order of this so maybe it will be introduced at the same time for certain units and tasks. ( note, nothing to do with NSG that has already placed and received orders for their CornerShots).


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## MrIndianSikh

i'm guessing for the new F-INSAS rifle designed and developed by ARDE it will have a carbine variant for special forces


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## rajusri

what is this?


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## Abingdonboy

rajusri said:


> what is this?


 
This is an Indian Army aviation pilot. The helmet is an ordinary helo helmet.

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## rajusri

Abingdonboy said:


> This is an Indian Army aviation pilot. The helmet is an ordinary helo helmet.


 
I mean what is this compartment with many electronics. Command centre?


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## MrIndianSikh

rajusri said:


> I mean what is this compartment with many electronics. Command centre?


 
probably HUD with army choppers like Dhruv Chetak Cheetah Mi-17 but nonetheless has nothing to do with F-INSAS

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## angeldemon_007

*C4i2 2011*


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
This pics comes when you search c4i2 2011 but i think its not 2011 picture its an old one becuase it looks like Admiral Sureesh Mehta in the above picture who retired on August 31, 2009. I am sorry...


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## angeldemon_007

I don't know whether you guys read this article or not but its an interesting piece on FINSAS program ....






*Future infantry: unravelling the Indian Army's F-INSAS programme*

*F-INSAS aims to put the Indian Army at the forefront of soldier tech, but precious little is currently known about it. Chris Lo tries to separate fact from rumour to build an accurate picture of India's ambitious future soldier programme.*

As a leading light of the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) group of rapidly developing countries, India's galloping economy is quickly catching up with countries in Europe and North America.
Just as India's economy is expanding and modernising, moving ever further from its agrarian roots, the Indian Government is looking to bring cutting-edge 21st century technology to its million-strong armed forces. According to some reports, the Indian Ministry of Defence has been supporting around 600 modernisation initiatives for the Indian Army in the country's eleventh five-year plan (2007-2012).
Current large-scale modernisation plans include the Tactical Communications Systems programme to build a digital network connecting regiments and battalions to army headquarters, as well as the battle management system project to integrate the communications of the country's army, navy and air force.

*F-INSAS: creating 21st century warriors*

One of the biggest of these projects is F-INSAS (futuristic infantry soldier as a system), a multibillion dollar programme to turn India's infantrymen into fully-networked, digitised, self-contained 21st century warriors.
The scheme, which is reportedly planned to be rolled out in stages between 2012 and 2020, has been described by Indian defence officials as similar in scope and objectives to infantry modernisation projects like the US Army's Future Force Warrior initiative.
F-INSAS can trace its roots back to 2007 and even before, however, there is still very little information available about the project. With little government communication on the initiative and widespread confusion about its progress, doubts have been raised as to whether F-INSAS is on track to meet its goals.
Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) military and intelligence research fellow Mark Phillips characterises the Indian Ministry of Defence as suffering from a "lack of expertise", leading to scattershot development and a lack of clear long-term goals for projects like modernisation schemes.
"The Indian Administrative Service is composed of generalists who have no functional expertise, which results in constant reinvention of the wheel and a lack of capacity to evaluate long-term issues like defence planning and military capabilities," he said. "This is despite the fact that civil servants maintain considerable control of financing. Bureaucrats focus on the process of decision-making instead of the outcome."
We picked through the tangle of F-INSAS data to compile everything we know about this troubled but potentially revolutionary R&D project and its current status.

*The Indian Army's F-INSAS goals*

The overarching goals of the F-INSAS programme, which took shape in 2007 after several years of planning, combine a host of soldier-mounted technologies with the aim of creating a new generation of Indian infantry with better communications, lethality, survivability and situational awareness.
The F-INSAS roadmap, laid out by Indian defence officials at the project's outset, states that the new system will be supplied to eight to ten infantry battalions (up to 10,000 soldiers) by 2015, with all 325 battalions fully upgraded by 2020.
"We have put in place an action plan to modernise the armed forces in all dimensions," said India's now former chief of army staff Joginder Jaswant Singh back in 2007.
"A project, code-named F-INSAS, has been taken up to train futuristic soldiers, equipped with latest weaponry, communication network and instant access to information on the battlefield. In my view, the next war will be won by the side that is adept at high technology with all-weather fighting capability."

*Innovative rifle development*

The cornerstone and first stage of the F-INSAS project is the development or procurement of a new standard-issue armament to replace the ageing INSAS (Indian small arms system) rifle.

This was developed by India's Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) and introduced by the Ordnance Factory Board in the late 1990s.
This replacement has been plagued by usability problems, especially cold arrest issues in high altitude areas. As a result the Indian Army has been forced to import 100,000 AK-47 rifles in 1995, which have proved more reliable in extreme conditions.
_To replace the INSAS, the Indian Army wants to develop or acquire a new modular, multicalibre suite of weapons. The primary weapon is planned to be a rifle capable of firing 5.56mm and 7.62mm ammunition with a new 6.8mm under-development. This first stage alone will reportedly cost up to Rs250bn ($5bn)._
_As well as interchangeable barrels, the new rifle would also incorporate an under-barrel grenade launcher able to launch air-burst grenades, as well as thermal optics and a laser range finder. Other weapons proposed for the system include a close-quarter battle (CQB) carbine and a specialised sniper rifle._

*Hi-tech equipment and accessories*

In the later stages of the programme, the Indian Army intends to complement its new weapon platforms with a range of high-tech equipment for its infantry soldiers.
_This equipment includes a new helmet with mounted thermal sensors and night vision, as well as cameras and chemical and biological sensors. The helmet will have an integrated visor with a heads-up display (HUD) capable of outputting images with the equivalent space of two 17-inch computer screens.
Other proposed accessories include a full battle-suit with a bullet-proof and waterproof jacket, health sensors and even solar charging devices._
_This kind of personal energy generation could be used to power the soldier's HUD and sensor systems, as well as a wrist-mounted Palmtop GPS system that will be used to increase battlefield awareness and act as a networked messaging system between battalions and their commanders.
On top of all this, the army aims to reduce the overall weight carried by infantry soldiers by at least 50%._

*F-INSAS development: home or away?*

Despite the hugely ambitious nature of this cutting-edge programme, F-INSAS has seen little in the way of demonstrable progress since 2007. The host of armed forces modernisation programmes (many of which overlap in terms of objectives), combined with a lack of official clarification from government sources, has created a spaghetti junction of conflicting reports, even when simply looking at the initiative's first stage of weapon development.
One of the major talking points of F-INSAS's early stages was the government's desire to assign the development of the different aspects of the soldier systems to India's own expertise as much as possible, relying on domestic companies and public defence organisations like the Ordnance Factory Board and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) rather than foreign defence contractors from the US or Europe.
"Indian industry has demonstrated its capabilities in the fields of information technology and other core sectors and the army expects it to achieve excellence in defence technology, too," said J.J. Singh's chief of army staff successor Deepak Kapoor in 2007.
_Indeed, picture evidence from military events seems to show that Indian companies like Tata Advanced Materials and Tata subsidiary Nelco are working on various parts of F-INSAS equipment and accessories, from night vision goggles and body armour to personal power packs._
_It should be noted, however, that no official confirmation of these contracts by either companies or the government has been published._

*Private sector excluded?*

Phillips believes the Indian Government's insistence on eschewing private sector involvement in defence procurement in favour of public organisations like DRDO is hampering its ability to get projects moving and remains a source of inefficiency and confusion.
"Government policies towards private sector participation in defence industry prevent the emergence of a vibrant alternative to state run enterprises," Phillips said.
"As a result, the Indian military is beholden to the government-run DRDO whose performance is a matter of debate and controversy. So although the military has large autonomy, it is nonetheless reliant on another organisation to execute its plans in the procurement area.
"In 2006, India's comptroller and auditor general, V N Kaul, said that 'Defence R&D is an area where accountability often takes shelter under the policy of self reliance, and indigenisation becomes a reason for delay...accountability of domestic R&D organisations needs to be re-emphasised to enable better assessment of return from investment. Sensitising of the defence services to the role of public audit is essential.'"

*F-INSAS weapon development*

Discovering the company or organisation that has been tasked or will be tasked with developing the F-INSAS programme's new weapons throws up roadblocks of its own, especially with new developments in 2011. _In September last year, it was reported that the Ordnance Factory Board's Rifle Factory Ishapore (RFI) had developed a new rifle that would be going into production for F-INSAS in January 2012._
_Rumours suggested the rifle was modular and incorporated advanced components, possibly including a computer chip. However, no subsequent announcement has been made concerning this rifle or RFI's claims of its imminent production._
_An announcement towards the end of 2011 seems to cast further doubt on the reported RFI rifle development, and indeed on whether the Indian Army's next-gen rifle will be developed in India at all._
_The Times of India and other Indian sources reported at the beginning of December 2011 that the Indian Government has put out global tenders for F-INSAS assault rifles and CQB carbines._
_The tender for a new carbine also conflicts confusingly with reports from May 2011 that DRDO had developed an Indian-made carbine called the Milap. This begs the question: if the Milap was not developed for F-INSAS, what was it developed for?_
In the case of the F-INSAS rifle, it is possible that the Indian Government will procure a large quantity of foreign-made advanced rifles (The Times of India estimated that the initial order would be for 66,000 rifles) along with a license for the Ordnance Factory Board to manufacture further models.
_But why is media speculation like this even necessary when official government reports should be providing reliable information? Phillips says that a fear of hostile media attention provides a possible explanation to government secrecy._
"Since the Bofors scandal and especially after the Tehelka sting operation, weapons procurement by the armed forces has attracted considerable media and political attention," he said.
"Increasing numbers of corruption investigations have paralysed decision-making as officials became increasingly fearful of getting embroiled in investigations and possible litigation. This could explain the lack of official information available. Corruption allegations and media attention in this vein could also explain why there is conflicting information about projects."
*Until the private sector or the Indian Government clarifies the details of any tenders or deals, observers around the world are left to simply speculate on the status of F-INSAS. The project could be floundering or on the verge of flourishing, but without more reliable and official information, it's impossible to know for sure.*

Future infantry: unravelling the Indian Army's F-INSAS programme - Army Technology


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