# India successfully tests Nirbhay cruise missile



## INDIAPOSITIVE

India will test-fire the nuclear-capable Nirbhay cruise missile from the integrated test range at Balasore in Odisha on October 17, the second launch of the indigenous weapon developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

All eyes will be on the upcoming launch as the Nirbhay’s much-hyped maiden launch last March had failed to hit the pre-designated target in the Bay of Bengal. When ready, the missile will be able to deliver nuclear warheads at ranges of up to 1,000 km.

The DRDO had to terminate the Nirbhay flight mid-way in March 2013 after the long-range missile deviated from its intended course, leading to some delays in the programme. A senior DRDO official said glitches in the missile’s inertial navigation system had been ironed out.

“The first test was a partial success as several mission objectives were met. The upcoming test is crucial as we have to demonstrate the capability of the missile,” he added. It will require a few more successful tests before being declared ready for induction.

Low-flying cruise missiles such as the Nirbhay can easily slip past enemy air-defence systems due to small radar cross section. The Nirbhay will be configured to be launched from multiple platforms such as land, air and sea.

Nuclear-capable missile to be tested on October 17 - Hindustan Times

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## trident2010

Best of luck !!


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## HariPrasad

4 DAYS TO GO. Good luck!!!!!!!!

Success of this missile will add a lot in stratagic profile of India.

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## Iggy

I seriously doubt it is nuclear capable.. Can anyone clarify?? @kurup @acetophenol @sandy_3126 @sancho @Abingdonboy


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## GORKHALI

seiko said:


> I seriously doubt it is nuclear capable.. Can anyone clarify?? @kurup @acetophenol @sandy_3126 @sancho @Abingdonboy


?? Why you seriously doubt


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## HariPrasad

Most of India missiles are nuclear capable. If you equip them or not is a different matter. Even 150 KM range prithvi i also Nuclear capable.


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## Iggy

GORKHALI said:


> ?? Why you seriously doubt



Because its our journos who are writing this..


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## Jason bourne

seiko said:


> I seriously doubt it is nuclear capable.. Can anyone clarify?? @kurup @acetophenol @sandy_3126 @sancho @Abingdonboy




U r full of doubts always

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## MilSpec

seiko said:


> I seriously doubt it is nuclear capable.. Can anyone clarify?? @kurup @acetophenol @sandy_3126 @sancho @Abingdonboy


It can accommodate 24 different types of warheads according to Internet, so you can accommodate pre fragmented HE, Mini bomblets, alluminium submunition, low exlosive, Nuclear, non-conventional, training, aalo gobi, chat masala, what ever type you can develop.....

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## kurup

seiko said:


> I seriously doubt it is nuclear capable.. Can anyone clarify?? @kurup @acetophenol @sandy_3126 @sancho @Abingdonboy



It *can* carry one ....... But don't think it will ever . Maybe an air launched version in the future will carry nuke warheads .

_BGM-109A Tomahawk Land Attack Missile – Nuclear (TLAM-A) with a W80 nuclear warhead. Retired from service sometime between 2010 and 2013_

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## Iggy

Jason bourne said:


> U r full of doubts always



Just think about it.. cruise missiles are used in battle fields to destroy vital installations and assets of enemy countries.. If it is nuclear capable, isnt there a chance that enemy country also launch nuclear salvo thinking that we are nuking them??


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## HariPrasad

INRSS launch followed by Nirbhay launch followed by A5 Launch (Hope) launch this month. Good luck.

We need different versions of Brahmos ranging from 300 to 3000 KM of range. Laghu Shakti should become a reality soon.

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## acetophenol

seiko said:


> I seriously doubt it is nuclear capable.. Can anyone clarify?? @kurup @acetophenol @sandy_3126 @sancho @Abingdonboy


I don't see any reason for it being not nuke capable mate!
India to Test Nirbhay Cruise Missile in 2012

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## GORKHALI

seiko said:


> Because its our journos who are writing this..


So who gonna write it ?You and I are not qualified for that.


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## unbiasedopinion

HariPrasad said:


> Most of India missiles are nuclear capable. If you equip them or not is a different matter. Even 150 KM range prithvi i also Nuclear capable.


What makes a conventional warhead cruise missile different than nuclear warhead capable cruise missile? After all missile is just a delivery mechanism. Most of the difference I can think of is the trigger mechanism or is there anything else?

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## kurup

GORKHALI said:


> So who gonna write it ?You and I are not qualified for that.



Considering the knowledge of desi journalists on defence matters , any member on this forum can write better reports than them .

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## HariPrasad

unbiasedopinion said:


> What makes a conventional warhead cruise missile different than nuclear warhead capable cruise missile? After all missile is just a delivery mechanism. Most of the difference I can think of is the trigger mechanism or is there anything else?




And may be some difference in warhead section design of the missile.

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## Bratva

acetophenol said:


> I don't see any reason for it being not nuke capable mate!
> India to Test Nirbhay Cruise Missile in 2012



Depends on nuke miniaturization. Did india possess such small warheads that can be fitted in to cruise missile ?



unbiasedopinion said:


> What makes a conventional warhead cruise missile different than nuclear warhead capable cruise missile? After all missile is just a delivery mechanism. Most of the difference I can think of is the trigger mechanism or is there anything else?



It depends on how much nuclear warhead has been miniaturized. Consider the size of Fatman nuke bomb of 1945 and imagine what would you do to fit it into a cruise missile.







comparison of nuclear weapons miniaturization: The Mark-III (Fat Man) 1945 implosion bomb (21 kt yield) and the W54 1961 implosion bomb (up to 6 kt yield during tests), to the same scale and with their diameters (inchs) indicated.

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## RKO

Bratva said:


> Depends on nuke miniaturization. Did india possess such small warheads that can be fitted in to cruise missile ?
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on how much nuclear warhead has been miniaturized. Consider the size of Fatman nuke bomb of 1945 and imagine what would you do to fit it into a cruise missile.
> 
> nuke miniaturization means components to detonate nuke warhead are to be made small, very small amount of nuclear fuel mixed with a catalyst in such a way that it gives an equivalent yield of Fatman or Thinman type bomb.


babur is nuclear capable ....right??

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## Kinetic

Bratva said:


> Depends on nuke miniaturization. Did india possess such small warheads that can be fitted in to cruise missile ?
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on how much nuclear warhead has been miniaturized. Consider the size of Fatman nuke bomb of 1945 and imagine what would you do to fit it into a cruise missile.
> 
> nuke miniaturization means components to detonate nuke warhead are to be made small, very small amount of nuclear fuel mixed with a catalyst in such a way that it gives an equivalent yield of Fatman or Thinman type bomb.




Yes... we have very small thermonuclear bombs... see the pic of TN bomb used in 1998 test. After that 16 years passed... we have advanced alot.

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## RKO

Bratva said:


> Depends on nuke miniaturization. Did india possess such small warheads that can be fitted in to cruise missile ?
> .


when Pakistan can do it.... why not India!!!

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## HariPrasad

Bratva said:


> It depends on how much nuclear warhead has been miniaturized. Consider the size of Fatman nuke bomb of 1945 and imagine what would you do to fit it into a cruise missile.





Kinetic said:


> Yes... we have very small thermonuclear bombs... see the pic of TN bomb used in 1998 test. After that 16 years passed... we have advanced alot.




It seems a 2 feet dia and 4 feet length bomb. Munimum yield will be 200 KT if not more. We can put atleast 5 of this type in Agni 3 and 5 if they weighs around 300 KG. If the weight is less or the place of delivery is bellow 5000 KM we can equip the missiles with 10 bombs. Both A3 and A5 are 2.0 m diameter missile. So size should not be a problem. We do not know the weight of bombs. if weight constrain is not there, we can put up to 10 bombs atleast.

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## unbiasedopinion

Bratva said:


> It depends on how much nuclear warhead has been miniaturized. Consider the size of Fatman nuke bomb of 1945 and imagine what would you do to fit it into a cruise missile.


Thanks but that would be the case with the conventional warhead as well, to miniaturize it so that it can do as much damage with less weight.


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## HariPrasad

I have met one soldier who was the part of the team carried out Nuclear test in Pokharan. He told that he had visited the underground chamber build for keeping bomb. The chamber was absolutely cool. All preparation carried out and than they were asked to turn back. i.e backside facing the place of explosion. Some time after the sxplosion carried out. Whole earth shook up for few second.

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## kurup

HariPrasad said:


> I have met one soldier who was the part of the team carried out Nuclear test in Kargil. He told that he had visited the underground chamber build for keeping bomb. The chember was absolutely cool. All preparation carried out and than they were asked to turn back. i.e backside facing the place of explosion. Some time after the sxplosion carried out. Whole earth shook up for few second.
> 
> I have met one soldier who was the part of the team carried out Nuclear test in Pokharan. He told that he had visited the underground chamber build for keeping bomb. The chamber was absolutely cool. All preparation carried out and than they were asked to turn back. i.e backside facing the place of explosion. Some time after the sxplosion carried out. Whole earth shook up for few second.



Nuclear test in *kargil* ..... 

He was in chamber when nuke was exploded .....

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## Bratva

HariPrasad said:


> I have met one soldier who was the part of the team carried out Nuclear test in Kargil. He told that he had visited the underground chamber build for keeping bomb. The chember was absolutely cool. All preparation carried out and than they were asked to turn back. i.e backside facing the place of explosion. Some time after the sxplosion carried out. Whole earth shook up for few second.
> 
> I have met one soldier who was the part of the team carried out Nuclear test in Pokharan. He told that he had visited the underground chamber build for keeping bomb. The chamber was absolutely cool. All preparation carried out and than they were asked to turn back. i.e backside facing the place of explosion. Some time after the sxplosion carried out. Whole earth shook up for few second.



That would be cold testing



RKO said:


> babur is nuclear capable ....right??



Yes.


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## Kinetic

HariPrasad said:


> It seems a 2 feet dia and 4 feet length bomb. Munimum yield will be 200 KT if not more. We can put atleast 5 of this type in Agni 3 and 5.



The bomb in the pic has dia of 1 feet and length of around 6 feet.

can be allocated inside huge nirbhay.

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## HariPrasad

kurup said:


> Nuclear test in *kargil* .....
> 
> He was in chamber when nuke was exploded .....




Sorry.

Corrected.


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## Indo-guy

kahonapyarhai said:


> India will test-fire the nuclear-capable Nirbhay cruise missile from the integrated test range at Balasore in Odisha on October 17, the second launch of the indigenous weapon developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
> 
> All eyes will be on the upcoming launch as the Nirbhay’s much-hyped maiden launch last March had failed to hit the pre-designated target in the Bay of Bengal. When ready, the missile will be able to deliver nuclear warheads at ranges of up to 1,000 km.
> 
> The DRDO had to terminate the Nirbhay flight mid-way in March 2013 after the long-range missile deviated from its intended course, leading to some delays in the programme. A senior DRDO official said glitches in the missile’s inertial navigation system had been ironed out.
> 
> “The first test was a partial success as several mission objectives were met. The upcoming test is crucial as we have to demonstrate the capability of the missile,” he added. It will require a few more successful tests before being declared ready for induction.
> 
> Low-flying cruise missiles such as the Nirbhay can easily slip past enemy air-defence systems due to small radar cross section. The Nirbhay will be configured to be launched from multiple platforms such as land, air and sea.
> 
> Nuclear-capable missile to be tested on October 17 - Hindustan Times


 
This is one of the most significant missile launches in this year.

as important as Agni V and K 4 SLBM launch ....


Hopefully the test turns out to be a grand success ....


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## axisofevil

The distance of this missile has to be increased big time for it to be an effective platform for us.


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## Pulsar

*Nirbhay - India's Indigenously Developed Long-Range, Loitering, Subsonic Cruise Missile.... *






*Wow! It can loiter too!! *

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## Indo-guy

seiko said:


> I seriously doubt it is nuclear capable.. Can anyone clarify?? @kurup @acetophenol @sandy_3126 @sancho @Abingdonboy


 
Don't just focus on word ' nuclear ' also pay attention to ' capable '

it simply means that missile is powered enough to carry nuclear warhead ....it may or may not be weaponised ...

" The payload is believed to be around 450 kg of HE/submunitions, but a small nuclear warhead with a 12 kT yield is possible "

Nirbhay | Missile ThreatMissile Threat

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## Abingdonboy

seiko said:


> I seriously doubt it is nuclear capable.. Can anyone clarify?? @kurup @acetophenol @sandy_3126 @sancho @Abingdonboy


It is designed to be a conventional cruise missile (like the Tomahawk) BUT it can be nuclear tipped (as can the Bhramos) but that is purely a secondary role.



axisofevil said:


> The distance of this missile has to be increased big time for it to be an effective platform for us.


The present 1,000 km range is nothing to scoff at mate.

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## Indo-guy

axisofevil said:


> The distance of this missile has to be increased big time for it to be an effective platform for us.


 
what is important is the mastery of turbofan technology ...

I am sure once we have demonstrated capability ...we would be able to extend the missile range further ...

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## Abingdonboy

Indo-guy said:


> what is important is the mastery of turbofan technology ...
> 
> I am sure once we have demonstrated capability ...we would be able to extend the missile range further ...


Precisely- success breeds success.

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## kurup

Abingdonboy said:


> The present 1,000 km range is nothing to scoff at mate.



Many sources say the actual range is 1200km .

More the merrier .

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## Indo-guy

kurup said:


> It *can* carry one ....... But don't think it will ever . Maybe an air launched version in the future will carry nuke warheads .
> 
> _BGM-109A Tomahawk Land Attack Missile – Nuclear (TLAM-A) with a W80 nuclear warhead. Retired from service sometime between 2010 and 2013_


 
It has been widely speculated that all SFC owned Sukhois will be armed with nuclear tipped nirbhay missiles ...

which will be a force multiplier for obvious reasons ....

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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> Many sources say the actual range is 1200km .
> 
> More the merrier .


Well I went for the conservative 1,000 km figure- which is still a game changer for the Indian Armed forces.

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## Indo-guy

kurup said:


> Many sources say the actual range is 1200km .
> 
> More the merrier .


 
as you know the range is not fixed ..it varies with mission profile ...

I think somebody rounded off the missile range to 1000 km ...

Yes maximum range for current generation of Nirbhay will be 1200 km

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## Abingdonboy

Indo-guy said:


> as you know the range is not fixed ..it varies with mission profile ...
> 
> I think somebody rounded off the missile range to 1000 km ...
> 
> Yes maximum range for current generation of Nirbhay will be 1200 km


To be honest the true range will never be divulged to the public- that would be rather counter productive, it will always be a rounded off figure.

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## kurup

Indo-guy said:


> It has been widely speculated that all SFC owned Sukhois will be armed with nuclear tipped nirbhay missiles ...
> 
> which will be a force multiplier for obvious reasons ....



That is exactly what I meant .

I don't see a requirement for a nuclear tipped Nirbhay GLCM .

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## RKO

can some body shed some light on guidance systems (if it is same as brahmos)


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## Indo-guy

kurup said:


> Many sources say the actual range is 1200km .
> 
> More the merrier .


 
another reason why the range of cruise missiles vary is that they need not travel in straight line ....


This is rather old paper ...

but interesting one

you can refer to page number 53 for the chapter related to range of cruise missiles

http://scienceandglobalsecurity.org/archive/sgs03lewis.pdf

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## Indo-guy

kurup said:


> That is exactly what I meant .
> 
> I don't see a requirement for a nuclear tipped Nirbhay GLCM .


 
Cruise missiles are supposed to be weapons of surprise ...

what is wrong if the surprise is " Nuclear " one ...?

I do not understand why nuclear capable ALCM should preclude nuclear capable GLCM !


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## Abingdonboy

Albatross said:


> Nirbhay or Murphy no matter what India makes Pakistani's are always gonna remain superior in all senses.
> 
> View attachment 129935


*REPORT THE TROLL DON'T REPLY TO HIM*

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## Indo-guy

Albatross said:


> Nirbhay or Murphy no matter what India makes Pakistani's are always gonna remain superior in all senses.


 

post reported for trolling

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## kaykay

Bratva said:


> Depends on nuke miniaturization. Did india possess such small warheads that can be fitted in to cruise missile ?
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on how much nuclear warhead has been miniaturized. Consider the size of Fatman nuke bomb of 1945 and imagine what would you do to fit it into a cruise missile.
> 
> 
> View attachment 129332
> 
> comparison of nuclear weapons miniaturization: The Mark-III (Fat Man) 1945 implosion bomb (21 kt yield) and the W54 1961 implosion bomb (up to 6 kt yield during tests), to the same scale and with their diameters (inchs) indicated.


Well Indias 17 KT nuclear yield warhead RV(mk4) is weighted 180 kg so I don't thing there is any problem regarding that.

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## kurup

RKO said:


> can some body shed some light on guidance systems (if it is same as brahmos)



INS + GPS-GLONASS-IRNSS + TERCOM + DSMAC .



Indo-guy said:


> Cruise missiles are supposed to be weapons of surprise ...
> 
> what is wrong if the surprise is " Nuclear " one ...?
> 
> I do not understand why nuclear capable ALCM should preclude nuclear capable GLCM !



Not precluding but in the sense that , IMHO , there is no requirement for one considering the availability of multiple BMs and STMs for the same job in the same range category .

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## Indo-guy

kurup said:


> INS + GPS-GLONASS-IRNSS + TERCOM + DSMAC .
> 
> 
> 
> Not precluding but in the sense that , IMHO , there is no requirement for one considering the availability of multiple BMs and STMs for the same job in the same range category .


 
.

it is just a nuclear capable missile ....GLCM may or may not be weaponised with nuclear warhead

Nirbhay along with Brahmos is going to be main menu for the missile 'platter' for all the three divisions of armed forces in coming decades ...

Precisely for that reason that Nirbhay is a lone long range cruise missile that we have ...it makes sense to have nuclear capable cruise missile ....

It is better to have multi faceted multi level capability
Or else we wouldn't need any cruise missile right ...if we put forth the same argument regarding availability of multiple BMs ...


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## SrNair

Albatross said:


> Nirbhay or Murphy no matter what India makes Pakistani's are always gonna remain superior in all senses.
> 
> View attachment 129935



Post reported for offtopic.

@Chak Bamu @Jungibaaz


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## Kinetic

A hypersonic long range missile is must for us not subsonic nirbhay. 

if we fire the missile must destroy the enemy @$$es destroying their air defence. we need HSTDV.


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## Green Angel

Nirbhay is 1000 times better than you Mars mission,if it gets success.................


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## temp1994

GORKHALI said:


> So who gonna write it ?You and I are not qualified for that.




Members of defence forums are probably more capable than Indian Journalists.


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## Nitin Goyal

Green Angel said:


> Nirbhay is 1000 times better than you Mars mission,if it gets success.................



No, mars mission is the quantum leap.

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## GORKHALI

temp1994 said:


> Members of defence forums are probably more capable than Indian Journalists.


Am talkin about qualification mate.


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## Bullet500

Nitin Goyal said:


> No, mars mission is the quantum leap.


Bro he doesn't know what quantom leap is.

On topic Good luck for the launch! We need a cheaper long range delivery system and that's what it is ment to be.

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## Kinetic

Green Angel said:


> Nirbhay is 1000 times better than you Mars mission,if it gets success.................



Even countries lyk north korea can make missiles lyk that.

Mars mission is only 3/4 in the world.

That is totally different domain.. u will not understand.


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## HariPrasad

Indo-guy said:


> This is one of the most significant missile launches in this year.
> as important as Agni V and K 4 SLBM launch ....




No it is even more important than A V because we are entering into a totally new class of missile.



Indo-guy said:


> what is important is the mastery of turbofan technology ...
> 
> I am sure once we have demonstrated capability ...we would be able to extend the missile range further ...




Nirbhay is a much longer range missile than it is advertised.



kurup said:


> NS + GPS-GLONASS-IRNSS + TERCOM + DSMAC .




V K Saraswat has told that guidance system of Nirbhay is so robust that it can strike very precisely even without the signals from satellites e.g GPS , Glonas, INRSS etc.


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## Hyperion

Almost any missile can be fitted with a nuclear warhead, as long as the warhead package itself is small enough for the missile warhead envelop. This literally is NO rocket science, just a few minor tweaks and you have a 'nuclear capable' missile.

Having said that, the question is, will Nirbhay EVER be used with a nuclear warhead? Almost certainly not. ALL subsonic cruise missiles are way....way.....way easier to intercept. Therefore, I'd recommend not to hold your breath if it's never ever armed with a non-coventional warhead.



seiko said:


> I seriously doubt it is nuclear capable.. Can anyone clarify?? @kurup @acetophenol @sandy_3126 @sancho @Abingdonboy

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## SanjeevaniButi

Nirbhay to be test-fired on Friday - The Hindu

Nirbhay, a subsonic cruise missile developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation, will be test-fired for the second time from the Integrated Test Range at Balasore in Odisha on Friday. Its debut flight on March 12, 2013, was a failure.

Nirbhay has a special path, as it takes off vertically like a missile, rises to 800 metres, turns horizontally, then spreads out its wings and cruises like an aircraft. *The two-stage, surface-to-surface missile has an 800-km-plus range. But it can cover even 1,000 km, say DRDO missile technologists.*

After a booster engine fires and catapults the missile from a mobile launcher (a big lorry), the missile will climb and an on-board mechanism will tilt it from the vertical to the horizontal path. The booster engine is then jettisoned and the missile’s wings are deployed. Afterwards, the turbojet engine in the second stage, akin to an aircraft’s, comes to life and it becomes a cruising missile.

Nirbhay, *capable of flying at 0.7 mach*, is a “tree-top” missile — as the missile traverses at the height of a palmyra tree, radars will find it difficult to detect the weapon. It is a “loitering” missile — it can circle over an area for many minutes and pick out the target. *Its flight duration can last an hour. It can carry multiple payloads and engage several targets. Its seeker helps detect the target with lock-on-after launch capability. The missile can be fired from a variety of platforms such as a lorry, a ship, an aircraft and underwater systems.*

“Corrections have been made in this flight, and we are pursuing this project vigorously,” DRDO engineers said speaking about the failure of the first test-flight.

But DRDO engineers said the flight proved several technologies such as the missile’s vertical take-off, the first stage separation, switch-on of the turbo-jet engine, wing deployment, stabilisation of flight and way-pointing.

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## ni8mare

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/521689262111358976
*new-look??????????????*

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## Kinetic

ni8mare said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/521689262111358976
> *new-look??????????????*

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## trident2010

Fingers crossed !!


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## saikumar

pakistaniyon ki phat jayegi jab ye missile induct ho jayega


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## Kinetic

saikumar said:


> pakistaniyon ki phat jayegi jab ye missile induct ho jayega


No.. such slow cruise missiles can be easily intercepted


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## Lil Mathew

seiko said:


> I seriously doubt it is nuclear capable.. Can anyone clarify?? @kurup @acetophenol @sandy_3126 @sancho @Abingdonboy


Since 2005 cruise missile BABUR has been inducted into Pakistan’s Army Strategic Force Command.Pakistan tested its 450km range, air-launched cruise missile Raad in August 2007 which is now part of its Air Force Strategic Command.
India is lagging and desperately needed a nuclear capable cruise missile since then..Nirbhay’s ALCM and SLCM versions are recognised as highly survivable nuclear warhead delivery systems by India’s Strategic Forces Command (SFC).. Last two tests of nirbhay will be done in Su30mki and arihant for this purpose..
Brahmos cannot be used because of under the MTCR.. Also range is a matter..
Short-sighted on nuclear policy
Nuclear bombs carried by fighters are not a credible 2nd strike capability.. So we want long range cruise missiles for doing that job.. Nirbhay is the answer..
Strategic Command to acquire 40 nuclear capable fighters - Hindustan Times

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## Lil Mathew

Hyperion said:


> Almost any missile can be fitted with a nuclear warhead, as long as the warhead package itself is small enough for the missile warhead envelop. This literally is NO rocket science, just a few minor tweaks and you have a 'nuclear capable' missile.
> 
> Having said that,fyi the question is, will Nirbhay EVER be used with a nuclear warhead? Almost certainly not. ALL subsonic cruise missiles are way....way.....way easier to intercept. Therefore, I'd recommend not to hold your breath if it's never ever armed with a non-coventional warhead.


Nirbhays primary role recognized as a credible second strike wepon.. Nirbhay with conventional warhead is actually a derivative of this program..
Then why using subsonic??
Answer is size matters.. Long range supersonic means big size.. India not have strategic bombers so a compact subsonic cruise missile is necessary for fighter aircrafts .. Also even USA used subsonic cruise missiles for nuclear roles( now not using any)..
Interception is not a matter as subsonic cruise missile that remains stealthy( smaller &lighter) due to terrain hugging flight-profile and is capable of navigating via several waypoints to avoid static & mobile AAA systems.[we also have a 600 km range nuclear capable supersonic LRCM project running parallel]

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## HariPrasad

Kinetic said:


> No.. such slow cruise missiles can be easily intercepted




Slow missile can be easily intercepted but this one (Nirbhay) has a capability of flying very low at tree top Height coupled with stealth features. It will require a powerful Radar placed at a height (Aerostar like system).


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## HariPrasad

Nirbhay test to go ahead in-spite of Hud Hud. 

DRDO to test Nirbhay cruise missile despite Hudhud | idrw.org

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## shuntmaster

What attribute qualifies a missile as "nuclear capable"??


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## Indo-guy

Kinetic said:


> A hypersonic long range missile is must for us not subsonic nirbhay.
> 
> if we fire the missile must destroy the enemy @$$es destroying their air defence. we need HSTDV.


 
This has hardly anything to do with 'sonicity'

the cruise missiles give us unprecedented opportunity to strike at will ...
there are hardly any defence against cruise missile like Nirbhay which has loitering capability ...

why compare it with HSTDV for just for speed sake ?

off course HSTDV is a futuristic project ...and no country today has proven , operational Hypersonic long range missile .

Nirbhay along with brahmos is going to be weapon weapon in our missile inventory for next few decades ...

It's importance can't neither be overemphasized nor be belittled vis a vis Hypersonic long range weapon system !

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## IND151

After the Nirbhay is successful, we sould work on 2,000 KM range version of Nirbhay.


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## HariPrasad

shuntmaster said:


> What attribute qualifies a missile as "nuclear capable"??




Special Warhead carrying capability and delivery system including triggering mechanism to explode warhead at certain height say 150 meter or 200 meter above the earth. My two cent.

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## IND151

Kinetic said:


> The bomb in the pic has dia of 1 feet and length of around 6 feet.
> 
> can be allocated inside huge nirbhay.



One of the nuke tested in Pokharan 2 had yield of 0.5 KT, it could be miniaturised nuke.


----------



## Indo-guy

shuntmaster said:


> What attribute qualifies a missile as "nuclear capable"??


 
" Nuclear capable missile" is a ' news ' perpetuated by sensationalistic journalism

any missile can be technically configured or tweaked to be nuclear capable !!!

There are no specific attributes if Nuclear capable missiles because there is no such classification ...

since the smallest nuclear warheads ever manufactured or tested weigh as small as 25 kg ....any missile which can carry such or similar warhead and can ensure safe delivery of ' package' after re-entry ( in case of ballistic missiles )


For example Pakistan's short range missile - " Nasr " which has range of just 60 km can carry warhead of about upto 5 kiloton ..and therefore is also nuclear capable ....


The only attribute - if at all, should be " ability to deliver its package at its intended target ' safely ' "

But then again it is such a ' loose ' criteria ...

so " nuclear " prefix adds only some spice to missile's capability ....


ICBMs are however are specifically intended for strategic purpose and they are armed with nuclear warhead by default ...

Using a million dollar ICBM to deliver conventional warhead - does not make ' economic ' sense ...

but as illustrated - range can hardly be considered as attribute for missile to be considered as " nuclear capable "

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## IND151

axisofevil said:


> The distance of this missile has to be increased big time for it to be an effective platform for us.



I completely agree.

I am quite sure better vesrions with longer range will follow.

BTW according to PKS smaller vesrion of NIrbhay with 600 KM range, meant to be carried by jaguars and mirages is under development.



Albatross said:


> Nirbhay or Murphy no matter what India makes Pakistani's are always gonna remain superior in all senses.
> 
> View attachment 129935



You understand that that Babur has range of 700 KM and Nirbhay has range of 1,000 KM?

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## Indo-guy

HariPrasad said:


> Special Warhead carrying capability and delivery system including triggering mechanism to explode warhead at certain height say 150 meter or 200 meter. My two cent.


 
agree ! this perhaps is the most plausible and reasonable attribute of a so called " Nuclear capable " missile ...


----------



## IND151

kaykay said:


> Well Indias 17 KT nuclear yield warhead RV(mk4) is weighted 180 kg so I don't thing there is any problem regarding that.



Kindly provide source for claim?


----------



## Indo-guy

IND151 said:


> Kindly provide source for claim?


 

already posted on PDF

http://www.indiaresearch.org/Shourya_Missile.pdf



see here
Indian ballistic missile warheads yield and mass

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## kaykay

IND151 said:


> Kindly provide source for claim?


 India’s Strategic Missiles » Indian Defence Review
17 KT FBF warhead(180 kg).
150 KT FBF warhead(550 kg).
50 KT FBF or 200 KT TN warhead(340 kg).
PS: Seems I provided you wrong link in hurry but anyway @Indo guy has provided that above so I don't need anymore.

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## Indo-guy

kaykay said:


> Well Indias 17 KT nuclear yield warhead RV(mk4) is weighted 180 kg so I don't thing there is any problem regarding that.


 
we do have Mk5 RV -FBF warhead which is smaller than mk4 warhead - although I am not sure of mass of Mk5 RV but it will be definitely lesser than 180 kg ...

I had seen image on one Russian forum ...

although the image was from Bharat rakshak .com

see image here

Отечественная военная техника (после 1945 г.) • Просмотр темы - Индийские баллистические ракеты

@kaykay do have look at this link .


I am referring to image uploaded on 03 June 2013 at 12 : 50 pm ....


----------



## kaykay

Indo-guy said:


> we do have Mk5 RV -FBF warhead which is smaller than mk4 warhead - although I am not sure of mass of Mk5 RV but it will be definitely lesser than 180 kg ...
> 
> I had seen image on one Russian forum ...
> 
> although the image was from Bharat rakshak .com
> 
> see image here
> 
> Отечественная военная техника (после 1945 г.) • Просмотр темы - Индийские баллистические ракеты
> 
> @kaykay do have look at this link .


Well there are options for sure dude but I am not sure if all types of weapons are deployed.
Here is the link I guess you will find interesting about what kind of RVs are most probably deployed and their capabilities.

India’s Strategic Missiles » Indian Defence Review

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## Indo-guy

kaykay said:


> Well there are options for sure dude but I am not sure if all types of weapons are deployed.
> Here is the link I guess you will find interesting about what kind of RVs are most probably deployed and their capabilities.
> 
> India’s Strategic Missiles » Indian Defence Review


 
very informative and interesting indeed !

thanks for posting ...


----------



## The_Sidewinder

Cruise missiles are gamechangers. Cheaper, stealthier & lower collateral damage to civilians. Nightmares to any enemy.
Induction of Nirbhay will also enable us to attack strategic targets with precision.


----------



## HariPrasad

Indo-guy said:


> Using a million dollar ICBM to deliver conventional warhead - does not make ' economic ' sense ...




Convention bombs such as fuel air explosives have become very powerful and America has equipped her ICBM with conventional bombs to target high value targets.


----------



## kurup

Indo-guy said:


> .it is just a nuclear capable missile ....GLCM may or may not be weaponised with nuclear warhead



Agree



> Nirbhay along with Brahmos is going to be main menu for the missile 'platter' for all the three divisions of armed forces in coming decades ...



Agree



> Precisely for that reason that Nirbhay is a lone long range cruise missile that we have ...it makes sense to have nuclear capable cruise missile ....



I like BM SSM for nuke strikes rather than CM and that's just my personal opinion .



> It is better to have multi faceted multi level capability
> Or else we wouldn't need any cruise missile right ...if we put forth the same argument regarding availability of multiple BMs ...



We will require CM for conventional role and BM for Nuke strikes .

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## kaykay

Can't wait for the test.


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## HariPrasad

With New guidance system, Nirbhay is ready for test. Parts have arrive, Assembly is on.test scheduled in Friday.

Congress will loose Maharashtra and Hariyana. Nirbhay will success followed by A5 canister launch followed by A2, A4 and test of Giant GSLV MK 3. Jingos have a lot to cheer in next couple of months. 

Nirbhay Missile Ready for Test With Rectified Guidance System | idrw.org


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## Green Angel

I am desperate to see this Missile test ............... Let's see what's happen this time.

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## Kinetic

Green Angel said:


> I am desperate to see this Missile test ............... Let's see what's happen this time.



Every country failed so many times execpt one with thier super alien tech.

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## RKO

Kinetic said:


> Every country failed so many times execpt one with thier super alien tech.


Yeah... that is a divine country!

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## kṣamā

hmm...even the primer Germany have failed a couple of times !!

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## Water Car Engineer

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=650953285002000


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## fsayed

one day to gooo


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## Tshering22

We are already late on this.

We need low-cost cruise missile in massive numbers but due to urgency, we had to get BrahMos instead. 

If only they can increase the range of BrahMos without Russian help, it will be the deadliest weapon in our arsenal.

Nirbhay should be deployed in the eastern borders, especially in Sikkim, Assam and AP.

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## The_Sidewinder

Tshering22 said:


> We are already late on this.
> 
> We need low-cost cruise missile in massive numbers but due to urgency, we had to get BrahMos instead.
> 
> If only they can increase the range of BrahMos without Russian help, it will be the deadliest weapon in our arsenal.
> 
> Nirbhay should be deployed in the eastern borders, especially in Sikkim, Assam and AP.



I agree. Deploying Nirbhay in NE region would be of great strategic advantage. For entire western front, range of brahmos is already Enough.

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## Tshering22

The_Sidewinder said:


> I agree. Deploying Nirbhay in NE region would be of great strategic advantage. For entire western front, range of brahmos is already Enough.



TBH it would save the Army a lot of manual work. Placing MBRL and SAM batteries on mountain top bases will make it easier to target approaching hostile aircraft/drones and any intrusion by hostile ground forces and also buy our soldiers time to call in re-enforcement in case shit hits the fan.

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## jugad

Tshering22 said:


> We are already late on this.
> 
> We need low-cost cruise missile in massive numbers but due to urgency, we had to get BrahMos instead.
> 
> If only they can increase the range of BrahMos without Russian help, it will be the deadliest weapon in our arsenal.
> 
> Nirbhay should be deployed in the eastern borders, especially in Sikkim, Assam and AP.



I read somewhere it costs around 10 crore per missile. IMHO atleast 1-1.5k in canisterized, air and sub launch configs should be inducted asap


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## Tshering22

jugad said:


> I read somewhere it costs around 10 crore per missile. IMHO atleast 1-1.5k in canisterized, air and sub launch configs should be inducted asap



Nirbhay? Hardly! That's the point of getting it in the first place. Its cost is a few lakhs (don't remember). But BrahMos costs three times more than a Lamborghini Avantador.

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## jugad

Tshering22 said:


> Nirbhay? Hardly! That's the point of getting it in the first place. Its cost is a few lakhs (don't remember). But BrahMos costs three times more than a Lamborghini Avantador.


Maybe the trial ones are a bit costly but once it enters mass production it could be cheap.

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## narcon

India developing air-launched version of Nirbhay missile 



*The DRDO is developing an air-launched version of the 1,500-km-range Nirbhay sub-sonic cruise missile which would be capable of being fired from the Indian Air Force's frontline Su-30MKI combat aircraft.*

*"This Nirbhay missile would be capable of being used from air, land and ships and submarines. An air-launched version of the missile is also being planned," DRDO chief Avinash Chander told PTI.*

He said the air-launched version of the missile is being developed and it would be capable of being fired from fighter aircraft such as Su-30MKI. The DRDO chief was commenting on the Nirbhay cruise missile programme ahead of the second test-firing of its land attack version scheduled to take place tomorrow from a firing range in Balasore in Odisha.

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## Jayanta

This is what I hate about DRDO...chup chap koi kaam nehi kar sakte....BCo..pehle bana lo...test karo, fir logo ko jor ka jhatka dhire se do. Lekin nehi...pehle muh phadenge...imaginary dates denge...fir apni marwayenge.

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## SanjeevaniButi

Jayanta said:


> This is what I hate about DRDO...chup chap koi kaam nehi kar sakte....BCo..pehle bana lo...test karo, fir logo ko jor ka jhatka dhire se do. Lekin nehi...pehle muh phadenge...imaginary dates denge...fir apni marwayenge.



India is a free society and a democracy to boot. When public money is being spent, public likes to hear about how its being spent.


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## ni8mare



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## halfilhal

Until and unless the project is entering testing phase, its all cheenpo cheenpo cheenpo


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## Kinetic

1500 Km is gud but i will prefer a 500 km hypersonic missile.


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## SanjeevaniButi

Friday Fury: Subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay ready to strike - News Oneindia






Nirbhay, India's first home-grown subsonic cruise missile, is all set for its launch from Interim Test Range (ITR) in Chandipur (Near Balasore in Orissa) on Friday, Oct 17. This is Nirbhay's second launch, the first being terminated mid-way on 12 March 2013 owing to a technical snag. Nirbhay, with an expected strike range of 800-1000 km, is the first missile being made completely in Bangalore. The missile was nurtured at the Defence Research and Development Organisation's (DRDO) premier laboratory Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) in Bangalore's C V Raman Nagar, an area infested with defence units. As this story goes live on OneIndia, top military sources confirm that the Flight Authorization Board (FAB) was holding a marathon meeting at ITR ahead of the launch.






"The FAB meeting is on and we hope to have the* missile ready for the launch by 10 am tomorrow*, subject to last-minute changes. The timings need not be final as it would depend on a series last-minute checks, including weather," a top missile scientist told OneIndia. India has developed all its missiles at DRDO's Missile Complex in Hyderabad and Nirbhay is the first Made-in-Bangalore-missile. ADE was granted the project owing to its expertise in developing unmanned aerial platforms such as Lakshya, Nishant and Rustom. "*During the maiden launch, we had the data going wrong for 500-600 milli seconds. In tomorrow's flight we are using an Inertial Navigation System (INS) which has been proven on other platforms as well. We have built redundant systems on Nirbhay now and have planned the end game near the range*. *As per our current script, the missile will travel a distance of 300 km and return to loiter around 100-150 km closer to the range,"* another senior scientist told OneIndia. Dr K Tamilmani, Director-General (Aeronautical Systems), DRDO, told OneIndia that following the success of Nirbhay, the scientists will work on a higher version of the missile. "*Right now we are ready with an excellent weapon with great loitering capabilities. With reduced weight and some fine-tuning, Nirbhay will be become a smarter weapon in the future,*" Dr Tamilmani said, during a brief interaction at ADE, recently.






*FACTOMETER *

Name: Nirbhay Meaning: Fearless 
Type: Two-stage subsonic cruise missile 
Range: 800-1000 km 
Length: 6 meters 
Diameter: 0.52 m 
Wing span: 2.7 m 
Weight: Approx 1,500 kg 
Speed: 0.7 Mach 
Abilities: Multiple manoeuvres, loitering features 
Cost: Around Rs 10 core per missile 
Developed by: ADE Bangalore

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## Ammyy

Cost : 10 Crore per missile? Isnt that really high cost?


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## Bhasad Singh Mundi

Kinetic said:


> 1500 Km is gud but i will prefer a 500 km hypersonic missile.


 Brahmos range will be extended to 600 KM & work is going on for to develop a 1000km supersonic lquid fueled ramjet missile,

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## jugad

Ammyy said:


> Cost : 10 Crore per missile? Isnt that really high cost?




Expected!! Just a bit more than the likes of tom hawks i suppose. Once we start mass producing the cost will reduce steeply. We need these in 1000s so i hope our economy rises remains stable.


----------



## axisofevil

SanjeevaniButi said:


> India is a free society and a democracy to boot. When public money is being spent, public likes to hear about how its being spent.




It doesn;t matter if its democracy. Learn from other democracies. When secrecy is the need for the hour, we should learn to embrace and enact it. Who needs spies when we are an open book.....


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## Jason bourne

Time of testing anyone ?


----------



## halupridol

any news??


----------



## Sam Manekshaw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522954115387625472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522952904198459393


----------



## Bratva

HariPrasad said:


> No it is even more important than A V because we are entering into a totally new class of missile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nirbhay is a much longer range missile than it is advertised.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *V K Saraswat has told that guidance system of Nirbhay is so robust that it can strike very precisely even without the signals from satellites e.g GPS , Glonas, INRSS etc*.



Don't believe what V K saraswat tells you. Learn from American experience of Tomahawak, what are it's short comings over Desert terrain, what are it's strong points, What are it's weak points etc etc 

Without Satellite navigation, no subsonic long range missile could do 1 meter strikes. At best it would be in rang of 15-20 Meters

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## Water Car Engineer




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## HariPrasad

Bhasad Singh Mundi said:


> Brahmos range will be extended to 600 KM & work is going on for to develop a 1000km supersonic lquid fueled ramjet missile,




This is an awesome news. Any Source?


----------



## cerberus

Anyone know time of test I'm keen to take see itt


----------



## Sankpal

Any update????


----------



## kṣamā

are bhai koi to batao.....any updates .... fingers crossed 

edit: @Sam Manekshaw shouldn't it be 700 to 1000km


----------



## Sam Manekshaw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522969510190411776


kṣamā said:


> are bhai koi to batao.....any updates .... fingers crossed
> 
> edit: @Sam Manekshaw shouldn't it be 700 to 1000km


test fired successfully...waiting for confirmation of success.

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## Zarvan

India has successfully tested its Nirbhay Cruise Missile

So Indians you basically like us just have copied Tomahawk Missile and with same Range like our Babur 700 KM


----------



## ares

*India Successfully Test-Fires Nuclear Capable Cruise Missile Nirbhay*
All India | Written by Pallava Bagla | Updated: October 17, 2014 10:16 IST
Ads by Google
Exclusive Designer Wears – Best Designer Wears For Men & Women in Delhi. Enquire Now!

h2designstudio.com/Designer






Nirbhay is very manoeuvrable and can fly at tree-top level.







Flip
10 must-know facts about Nirbhay)

Nirbhay (which means fearless) is very manoeuvrable and can fly at tree-top level, making it difficult to detect on radar, and strikes targets more than 700 km away carrying nuclear warheads, giving India the capability to strike deep into enemy territory.

Very soon when India's own satellite navigation fleet is fully deployed, Indian cruise missiles will start using signals from the Indian space system giving the country that extra edge.

Unlike other ballistic missiles like the Agni, Nirbhay has a wing and pronounced tail fins. It launches like a missile and in early flight the small wings get deployed. It then flies like an aircraft and can even hover near the target, striking at will from any direction.

On its maiden flight on March 12, last year, Nirbhay had to be terminated, when the missile deviated from its course about 20 minutes after launch. As the missile went off its flight trajectory, its engine was cut off to bring it down to ensure coastal safety. It fell near the coast; the DRDO said no one was injured.

The Nirbhay is a sub-sonic cruise missile and gives India the capacity to launch different kinds of payloads at different ranges from various platforms at a very low cost. It can be launched from a mobile launcher. The missile has a fire-and-forget system that cannot be jammed. 

India has had the capability to make ballistic missiles for some time now and has made tactical missiles of different capacity. But it had not mastered a cruise missile yet and DRDO scientists worked very hard on the Nirbhay. 

The US had deployed cruise missiles very effectively during the Gulf War.

The Nirbhay is India's answer to America's Tomahawk and Pakistan's Babur.
*Story First Published:* October 17, 2014 08:51 IST

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## Sam Manekshaw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522972255244939264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522973655202926592

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## sudhir007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522972532748464128

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## kaykay

NDTV was showing test video.


----------



## SamantK

Zarvan said:


> India has successfully tested its Nirbhay Cruise Missile
> 
> So Indians you basically like us just have copied Tomahawk Missile and with same Range like our Babur 700 KM


 
No, we did not copy cause we never had a Tomahawk missile to copy.

That trophy still rests with you.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Kinetic

Nirbhay launched ... so far flying gud


----------



## Sam Manekshaw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522974496202838016


Kinetic said:


> Nirbhay launched ... so far flying gud


yeah...booster separation successful...so far in good condition,


----------



## kinsr

Zarvan said:


> So Indians you basically like us just have copied Tomahawk Missile and with same Range like our Babur 700 KM



Thanks for posting the news... now go and cry somewhere else for a while...

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## cerberus

ares said:


> *India Successfully Test-Fires Nuclear Capable Cruise Missile Nirbhay*
> All India | Written by Pallava Bagla | Updated: October 17, 2014 10:16 IST
> Ads by Google
> Exclusive Designer Wears – Best Designer Wears For Men & Women in Delhi. Enquire Now!
> 
> h2designstudio.com/Designer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nirbhay is very manoeuvrable and can fly at tree-top level.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flip
> 10 must-know facts about Nirbhay)
> 
> Nirbhay (which means fearless) is very manoeuvrable and can fly at tree-top level, making it difficult to detect on radar, and strikes targets more than 700 km away carrying nuclear warheads, giving India the capability to strike deep into enemy territory.
> 
> Very soon when India's own satellite navigation fleet is fully deployed, Indian cruise missiles will start using signals from the Indian space system giving the country that extra edge.
> 
> Unlike other ballistic missiles like the Agni, Nirbhay has a wing and pronounced tail fins. It launches like a missile and in early flight the small wings get deployed. It then flies like an aircraft and can even hover near the target, striking at will from any direction.
> 
> On its maiden flight on March 12, last year, Nirbhay had to be terminated, when the missile deviated from its course about 20 minutes after launch. As the missile went off its flight trajectory, its engine was cut off to bring it down to ensure coastal safety. It fell near the coast; the DRDO said no one was injured.
> 
> The Nirbhay is a sub-sonic cruise missile and gives India the capacity to launch different kinds of payloads at different ranges from various platforms at a very low cost. It can be launched from a mobile launcher. The missile has a fire-and-forget system that cannot be jammed.
> 
> India has had the capability to make ballistic missiles for some time now and has made tactical missiles of different capacity. But it had not mastered a cruise missile yet and DRDO scientists worked very hard on the Nirbhay.
> 
> The US had deployed cruise missiles very effectively during the Gulf War.
> 
> The Nirbhay is India's answer to America's Tomahawk and Pakistan's Babur.
> *Story First Published:* October 17, 2014 08:51 IST


Huge news @ares make a new thread for this members will add more sources and videos in that


----------



## Zarvan

SamantK said:


> No, we did not copy cause we never had a Tomahawk missile to copy.
> 
> That trophy still rests with you.


FOR GOD sake its a clear cut copy mate just like we did in fact now it seems to be more copy of Babur because it has exactly same range and your Indians were screaming on this forum like you are coming up with some thing original


----------



## ni8mare

Zarvan said:


> India has successfully tested its Nirbhay Cruise Missile
> 
> So Indians you basically like us just have copied Tomahawk Missile and with same Range like our Babur 700 KM


Nirbhay is 1500 km...........not same as range like babur

^^^^^


Zarvan said:


> FOR GOD sake its a clear cut copy mate just like we did in fact now it seems to be more copy of Babur because it has exactly same range and your Indians were screaming on this forum like you are coming up with some thing original


----------



## ares

cerberus said:


> Huge news @ares make a new thread for this members will add more sources and videos in that



It has been launched successfully, let it successfully complete its flight.

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## Sam Manekshaw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522975687481638913

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## HariPrasad

Nirbhay Missile test fired.


----------



## halupridol

ares said:


> It has been launched successfully, let it successfully complete its flight.



ya,,,lets wait till 11 am/official confirmation

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## HariPrasad

*India test-fires nuclear-capable Nirbhay cruise missile*
TNN | Oct 17, 2014, 10.18 AM IST

Comments
ANuclear-Capable Nirbhay Cruise Missile|Nirbhay Cruise Missile|DRDO







It was the second developmental trial of the missile.

RELATED


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BALASORE: India on Friday test-fired nuclear-capable Nirbhay cruise missile with range of 700-100km from Balasore in Odisha. 

It was the second developmental trial of the missile. 

The first test was conducted on March 12, 2013 from the same base. However, "the flight had to be terminated mid-way, as deviations were observed from its intended course," said an official. 

India has with its arsenal 290km range supersonic "BrahMos" cruise missile which is jointly developed by India and Russia. But 'Nirbhay' with long range capability is a different kind of missile being developed by the Aeronautical development Establishment (ADE), a DRDO lab in Bangalore. 

Nirbhay has good loitering capability, good control and guidance, high degree of accuracy in terms of impact and very good stealth features, the official said.
JUST IN: India test-fires its nuclear-capable #Nirbhay cruise missile with range of 700-100 km at Balasore in Odisha

— Doordarshan News (@DDNewsLive) October 17, 2014

We shall know the result within an hour.

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## Sam Manekshaw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522975395390300160


----------



## indiatester

Hurray!!!
I'm placing one trial order 
More news please on the features of this missile


----------



## OrionHunter

The best part is that it is highly maneuverable and can loiter in the area selecting targets and then home on, using intrinsic artificial intelligence imbedded into its guidance system!

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## Sam Manekshaw

halupridol said:


> ya,,,lets wait till 11 am/official confirmation




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522976569510199296

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## Tshering22

I hope that they induct this fast the moment it is successful. We badly need subsonic cruise missiles on our warships as well as land based batteries. One of the successful Russian tactics is firing thousands of cheaper subsonic missiles rather than a few dozen Yakhonts that would be a total pocket rip off.

Similarly we should save BrahMos for more important targets (till we can ourselves increase its range by circumventing the MTCR that Russia is bound by) but use this to rain on enemy targets in times of conflict.

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## OrionHunter

Zarvan said:


> India has successfully tested its Nirbhay Cruise Missile
> 
> So Indians you basically like us just have copied Tomahawk Missile and with same Range like our Babur 700 KM


Don't burn with jealousy, man. Learn to accept India's missile superiority.  

And then, your Babur is just a fire and forget missile without any sophisticated guidance system. In contrast Nirbhay is an 'intelligent' highly maneuverable missile with artificial intelligence which helps it to loiter in the area like a drone, select its target and and then homes on to it. 

It's a quantum leap in technology compared to your Babur.

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## Lostsoldier

Zarvan said:


> FOR GOD sake its a clear cut copy mate just like we did in fact now it seems to be more copy of Babur because it has exactly same range and your Indians were screaming on this forum like you are coming up with some thing original


Damn you are a mathematics genius
In terms of range. 
1 Babar = 1/2 Nirbhay 
So we copied half babur
Damn!! Hail you!
Do you want people to bow down to you! That's the reason geniuses like you are present in Pakistan and you are good at paint job.
No Offence. M8!!

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## Sam Manekshaw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522978926294212608

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## ni8mare

Sam Manekshaw said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522976569510199296


so 300 in 10 mins and 40 min of flight is remaining so thats is 1200..so in total ~1500km ............nice

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## guru1

Zarvan said:


> India has successfully tested its Nirbhay Cruise Missile
> 
> So Indians you basically like us just have copied Tomahawk Missile and with same Range like our Babur 700 KM


without chinese help pakistan can't even copy car engine forget missile .

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## Sam Manekshaw

meanwhile, PM NARENDRA MODI BEING INTRODUCED TO THE TOP COMMANDERS OF THE ARMY/NAVY/AIR FORCE DURING COMBINED COMMANDERS’ CONFERENCE IN DELHI

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## saikumar

i even went to the temple and prayed for the success of this test

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## kinsr

ni8mare said:


> so 300 in 10 mins and 40 min of flight is remaining so thats is 1200..so in total ~1500km ............nice


And if you go by that 10 min flight, the speed calculates to roughly to around mach 1.51... Sub-Sonic???


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## Sam Manekshaw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522981446240051200

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## HariPrasad

*India test-fires indigenously developed N-capable 'Nirbhay' cruise missile*
Last Updated: Friday, October 17, 2014 - 10:25
30
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Share on Facebook



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*Zee Media Bureau/Deepak Nagpal*

Balasore: India on Friday test-fired the indigenously developed sub-sonic long-range cruise missile 'Nirbhay' from the Integrated Test Range at Chandipur.

The missile took off at 10:04 am and after reaching a height of 800 metres, took a sharp turn towards the Bay of Bengal.

Sources at the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) said it will only be known after 11:00 am whether the test was successful.



Related Stories

India developing air-launched version of Nirbhay missile
Today's test was the second developmental trial of the nuclear-capable Nirbhay missile.




The missile was test-fired for the first time on March 12, 2013 from the same base. However, the flight had to be terminated mid-way, as deviations were observed from its intended course.

India has in its arsenal 290-kilomere range supersonic "BrahMos" cruise missile which is jointly developed by India and Russia. But 'Nirbhay' with long-range capability is a different kind of missile being developed by the Aeronautical development Establishment (ADE), a Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) associated lab in Bangalore.

Nirbhay blasts off like a rocket but turns into an aircraft later. It is capable of flying at tree-top level which protects it from being detected by radars. Also, it has the capability to manoeuvre around its target to strike with precision.

The missile can carry conventional as well as nuclear warheads and hit targets between 700 to 100 kilometres away.

Nirbhay has a good loitering capability, good control and guidance, high degree of accuracy in terms of impact and very good stealth features.

Officials say the missile will add a new dimension to the Indian armed forces' capability.

(With agency inputs)

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## halfilhal

guru1 said:


> without chinese help pakistan can't even copy car engine forget missile .



Car engine, really? more like scooter engine....


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## A2Z

Did Russian helped India with this or they have done it by themselves this time?


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## Jason bourne

"@livefist: Positive first reports: Nirbhay cruise missile test successful. Flight met all parameters. Guidance system checked all the boxes."

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## Water Car Engineer

Jason bourne said:


> "@livefist: Positive first reports: Nirbhay cruise missile test successful. Flight met all parameters. Guidance system checked all the boxes."



Tarmak is actually on the site with the techs.. so..His posts are more relevant.

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## SanjeevaniButi

kinsr said:


> And if you go by that 10 min flight, the speed calculates to roughly to around mach 1.51... Sub-Sonic???



Yup, the speed is around 500 m/sec  

Its a supersonic cruise missile with a satellite link


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## Zarvan

OrionHunter said:


> Don't burn with jealousy, man. Learn to accept India's missile superiority.
> 
> And then, your Babur is just a fire and forget missile without any sophisticated guidance system. In contrast Nirbhay is an 'intelligent' highly maneuverable missile with artificial intelligence which helps it to loiter in the area like a drone, select its target and and then homes on to it.
> 
> It's a quantum leap in technology compared to your Babur.


O cut the crap its just like Babur with same range and qualities but you are free to live in blind nationalism but that doesn't change the fact that Nirbhay and Babur both are copies of Tomahawk cruise Missile


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## Sam Manekshaw

Water Car Engineer said:


> Tarmak is actually on the site with the techs.. so..His posts are more relevant.


he is just reporting the tweet 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522972532748464128


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## Kinetic

Many sources on twitter... nirbhay crossed all 10 waypoints.... the test us 100% success..

badhai ho...

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## Zarvan

*India’s indigenously developed nuclear capable sub-sonic cruise missile ‘Nirbhay’, which can strike targets more than 700 kms away, was today test-fired from a test range at Chandipur in Odisha.*

“The missile was test-fired from a mobile launcher positioned at launch pad 3 of the Integrated Test Range at about 10.03 hours,” said an official soon after the flight took off from the launch ground.

“Flight details will be available after data retrieved from radars and telemetry points, monitoring the trajectories, are analysed,” the official said.

It is the second test of the sub-sonic long range cruise missile ‘Nirbhay’ from the ITR.

The maiden flight, conducted on March 12, 2013 could not achieve all the desired parameters as “the flight had to be terminated mid-way when deviations were observed from its intended course,” sources said.

India has in its arsenal the 290 km range supersonic “BrahMos” cruise missile which is jointly developed by India and Russia. But ‘Nirbhay’ with long range capability is a different kind of missile being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

Keywords: Nirbhay, India cruise missile
Cruise missile ‘Nirbhay’ test-fired - The Hindu


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## Sam Manekshaw




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## kṣamā

Sam Manekshaw said:


> he is just reporting the tweet
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522972532748464128


Now can we celebrate ????

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## Ammyy

Zarvan said:


> O cut the crap its just like Babur with same range and qualities but you are free to live in blind nationalism but that doesn't change the fact that Nirbhay and Babur both are copies of Tomahawk cruise Missile



Dnt compare state of art Nirbhaya with old tech like Tomhawk or babur


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## OrionHunter

Zarvan said:


> O cut the crap its just like Babur with same range and qualities but you are free to live in blind nationalism but that doesn't change the fact that Nirbhay and Babur both are copies of Tomahawk cruise Missile


Don't talk like an illiterate yahoo. Nirbhay compared to Babur is like a Lamborghini compared to your 800cc Mehran!!

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## Sam Manekshaw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522984829617332224

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## Zarvan

Ammyy said:


> Dnt compare state of art Nirbhaya with old tech like Tomhawk or babur


Man you Indians are so blind in your Nationalism its copy off Tomahawk but Indians will always be in denial so nothing can be done about you are free to live in fools paradise @Horus @fatman17 @Munir @Abu Zolfiqar

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## Sam Manekshaw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522985826095882240

Congrats guyzzzzzzzz.....it's success

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## Skull and Bones

saikumar said:


> pakistaniyon ki phat jayegi jab ye missile induct ho jayega



Nope, they don't have any ABM shield, so it doesn't matter to them.


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## Zarvan

OrionHunter said:


> Don't talk like an illiterate yahoo. Nirbhay compared to Babur is like a Lamborghini compared to your 800cc Mehran!!


You just proved yourself a genius

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## Ammyy

Zarvan said:


> You just proved yourself a genius



Dnt make your fun without comparing specs and capabilities of these missiles .... Your babur is old crap but Nirbhaya is state of art new generation missile.

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## danger007

Zarvan said:


> India has successfully tested its Nirbhay Cruise Missile
> 
> So Indians you basically like us just have copied Tomahawk Missile and with same Range like our Babur 700 KM


one simple thing . .. why are you burning ..

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## Ammyy

Sam Manekshaw said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522985826095882240
> 
> Congrats guyzzzzzzzz.....it's success



Abe ab to rook do....

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## jugad

Awesome  congrats to us


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## RKO

Bratva said:


> Don't believe what V K saraswat tells you. Learn from American experience of Tomahawak, what are it's short comings over Desert terrain, what are it's strong points, What are it's weak points etc etc
> 
> Without Satellite navigation, no subsonic long range missile could do 1 meter strikes. At best it would be in rang of 15-20 Meters



without a single navigation satellite... Pakistan claiming pinpoint accuracy for babur.... yeah anything possible for a divine country!!!

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## TejasMk3

Awesome guys Gratz!


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## SpArK

Great News.

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## Sam Manekshaw

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522987821011697664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522988035462283265

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## SamantK

Zarvan said:


> Man you Indians are so blind in your Nationalism its copy off Tomahawk but Indians will always be in denial so nothing can be done about you are free to live in fools paradise @Horus @fatman17 @Munir @Abu Zolfiqar


 May the butt hurt be with you!

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## Kinetic

Zarvan said:


> You just proved yourself a genius



Babur is a chinese missile not copy of.tomahawk... pakisyan technical capability does.not allow to develop a cruise missile. who do u think developed the engine and guidance... there is no private industry to support it either.... be practical...


*see how usa... russia... france developed the missiles... we know which company developed what... but in pakistan everything suddenly comes from NASSCOM.... is it bogger than Raytheon?? Raython cant build all parts of tomahawk *

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## Water Car Engineer

Now we wait for the awesome video.

Next Gen Kolkata, Shivalik, etc will get this bad boy. Along with Brahmos!

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## cerberus

Ammyy said:


> Abe ab to rook do....


Lets See how far it can get


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## sathya



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## gau8av

Pakistan developed their babur after some failed tomahawks heading for afghanistan crashed there and had the Chinese reverse engineer it.

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## cerberus

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522988035462283265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522984090715185152

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## Sam Manekshaw

India Test-Fires Nuclear Capable Cruise Missile Nirbhay


See video guyz

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## Novice09

Zarvan said:


> Man you Indians are so blind in your Nationalism its copy off Tomahawk but Indians will always be in denial so nothing can be done about you are free to live in fools paradise @Horus @fatman17 @Munir @Abu Zolfiqar


Bhai Jaan

No tomahawk dropped in India during Afgan war... COPY OFF TOMAHAWK???

"You are so blind in your Nationalism... You will always be in denial so nothing can be done about THAT AND you are free to live in fools paradise"

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## Tridibans

Zarvan said:


> O cut the crap its just like Babur with same range and qualities but you are free to live in blind nationalism but that doesn't change the fact that Nirbhay and Babur both are copies of Tomahawk cruise Missile



Man ignorance ki bhi hudd hoti hai  Babur is a grandpa generation old tech. Nirbhay cannot be even compared with it. Its like comparing NASA with SUPARCO

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## Kinetic

gau8av said:


> Pakistan developed their babur after some failed tomahawks heading for afghanistan crashed there and had the Chinese reverse engineer it.




Building a cruise missile need huge industry support and R&D back ground.... in Pakistan everything suddenly comes out from Nasscom and all of the tests are success....

even chinese need huge support from private industry and have many failures.

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## sathya

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522985826095882240

What the hell is this extra way point...

More than the 1000 Kms point ?


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## bloo

Zarvan said:


> *India’s indigenously developed nuclear capable sub-sonic cruise missile ‘Nirbhay’, which can strike targets more than 700 kms away, was today test-fired from a test range at Chandipur in Odisha.*
> 
> “The missile was test-fired from a mobile launcher positioned at launch pad 3 of the Integrated Test Range at about 10.03 hours,” said an official soon after the flight took off from the launch ground.
> 
> “Flight details will be available after data retrieved from radars and telemetry points, monitoring the trajectories, are analysed,” the official said.
> 
> It is the second test of the sub-sonic long range cruise missile ‘Nirbhay’ from the ITR.
> 
> The maiden flight, conducted on March 12, 2013 could not achieve all the desired parameters as “the flight had to be terminated mid-way when deviations were observed from its intended course,” sources said.
> 
> India has in its arsenal the 290 km range supersonic “BrahMos” cruise missile which is jointly developed by India and Russia. But ‘Nirbhay’ with long range capability is a different kind of missile being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
> 
> Keywords: Nirbhay, India cruise missile
> Cruise missile ‘Nirbhay’ test-fired - The Hindu



I really doubt it really matters to you, but you did miss something in that particular article you posted.



> '*Nirbhay' is said to be similar to the US Tomahawk, which can fly like an aircraft and is capable of travelling up to 1,000 km. *

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## SanjeevaniButi

ni8mare said:


> so 300 in 10 mins and 40 min of flight is remaining so thats is 1200..so in total ~1500km ............nice



Unofficially It appear to have a range of 1,500 km with a speed of 1.5 mach. 

Officially both the range and speed is cut in half


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## ni8mare

SanjeevaniButi said:


> Unofficially It appear to have a range of 1,500 km with a speed of 1.5 mach.
> 
> Officially both the range and speed is cut in half


lololoss


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## SrNair

Tshering22 said:


> We are already late on this.
> 
> We need low-cost cruise missile in massive numbers but due to urgency, we had to get BrahMos instead.
> 
> If only they can increase the range of BrahMos without Russian help, it will be the deadliest weapon in our arsenal.
> 
> Nirbhay should be deployed in the eastern borders, especially in Sikkim, Assam and AP.



And it should deploy in huge numbers once it is operational


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## sathya

SanjeevaniButi said:


> Unofficially It appear to have a range of 1,500 km with a speed of 1.5 mach.
> 
> Officially both the range and speed is cut in half




I think missile will vary its speed to take turns and all.. 
We may not be able to judge it ..

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## SanjeevaniButi

sathya said:


> I think missile will vary its speed to take turns and all..
> We may not be able to judge it ..



It does not have gears to change speed. Its speed will remain constant, whatever it is.


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## SarthakGanguly

sathya said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522985826095882240
> 
> What the hell is this extra way point...
> 
> More than the 1000 Kms point ?


Yes. An optional waypoint that helps in future calibration. If it misses by 10% small changes are done, if by 20%, more modifications are made. In this case, it hit the bull's eye

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## HariPrasad

ni8mare said:


> so 300 in 10 mins and 40 min of flight is remaining so thats is 1200..so in total ~1500km ............nice




Not possible. It must be 30 minutes.


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## ni8mare

SanjeevaniButi said:


> It does not have gears to change speed. Its speed will remain constant, whatever it is.


wtf??


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## HariPrasad

Test successful


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## SanjeevaniButi

SarthakGanguly said:


> Yes. An optional waypoint that helps in future calibration. If it misses by 10% small changes are done, if by 20%, more modifications are made. In this case, it hit the bull's eye



The missile was suppose to go upto 300 meters and then turn back, come back to base, loiter and then hit target. 

I am guessing that the 11th way point would be extra loitering time. An extra couple of loops before hitting target.

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## HariPrasad

SanjeevaniButi said:


> Unofficially It appear to have a range of 1,500 km with a speed of 1.5 mach.
> 
> Officially both the range and speed is cut in half




It is a subsonic missile. Speed is 800 to 1000 KMPH.

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## SanjeevaniButi

ni8mare said:


> wtf??



The other poster seems to think speed is lost during turns. That happens only when you change gears in vehicles. Not on aircraft or missiles.



HariPrasad said:


> It is a subsonic missile. Speed is 800 to 1000 KMPH.



Go back on previous posts that was measuring speed and distance and time of this missile. Then you can calculate the speed and range.

Based on reported data, speed is 1.47 mach and distance is 1,500 km.


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## Capt.Popeye

SanjeevaniButi said:


> The other poster seems to think speed is lost during turns. That happens only when you change gears in vehicles. Not on aircraft or missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> Go back on previous posts that was measuring speed and distance and time of this missile. Then you can calculate the speed and range.




It also happens on Aircraft, Missiles and even Ships. The explanation for that occurrence can be found in PHYSICS.

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## kaykay

A very successful year for Indian missile programmes so far.
India tested several missiles this year and all successful including Agni4, Agni5 and K4 SLBM.

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## SanjeevaniButi

Capt.Popeye said:


> It also happens on Aircraft, Missiles and even Ships. The explanation for that occurrence can be found in PHYSICS.



Not unless the turns are sudden genius. That is also found in PHYSICS. Or do you think the missile was doing the cobra maneuver.


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## Sam Manekshaw

SanjeevaniButi said:


> Unofficially It appear to have a range of 1,500 km with a speed of 1.5 mach.
> 
> Officially both the range and speed is cut in half




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522994429200580608

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## sathya

SanjeevaniButi said:


> The other poster seems to think speed is lost during turns. That happens only when you change gears in vehicles. Not on aircraft or missile




I am sure air crafts slow down to make tight turns...
I guessing cruise missile also do that.. Especially if it has loitering capability.

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## Sam Manekshaw

sathya said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522985826095882240
> 
> What the hell is this extra way point...
> 
> More than the 1000 Kms point ?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522994847431405569

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## Major Shaitan Singh

DRDO Congratulation for the success. I have one quick question can Nirbhay be shot down using Stingers and Manpad as it will be flying low and subsonic speed.


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## Water Car Engineer

kaykay said:


> A very successful year for Indian missile programmes so far.
> India tested several missiles this year and all successful including Agni4, Agni5 and K4 SLBM.




Add Astra, PDV, Nag, Helina, etc.

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## Sam Manekshaw

HariPrasad said:


> Test successful




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522994271247294464

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## narcon

Everybody is speculating here for nothing without knowing what India's scientists wanted to accomplish with this test, what were the test parameters fixed for this test. Was the target acquisition/hit a part of it, or they were checking its flight parameters, its loitering capability etc....

This waypoint exceeding thingy is crucial factor to understand more of what actually transpired indeed!



> A component that allows placement of a strategic map waypoint, which will guide the missile towards this location. Useful for attacking targets beyond visual range, where short range seekers can't lock on. Once the missile reaches the waypoint, the INS module turns off and whatever seeker or guidance installed in the missile will resume command. Missiles with INS modules will ignore the maximum range set by any local weapon controller, and rather launch based upon 90% of missile range with propulsion still active, so that the last 10% can be used to guide the missile towards the target it finds at the waypoint.

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## kaykay

@Zarvan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522994429200580608

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## Kinetic

Major Shaitan Singh said:


> DRDO Congratulation for the success. I have one quick question can Nirbhay be shot down using Stingers and Manpad as it will be flying low and subsonic speed.



Yes... subsonic cruise missiles are easy targets... but they are low cost... latest missiles hv EW systems..

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## SanjeevaniButi

sathya said:


> I am sure air crafts slow down to make tight turns...
> I guessing cruise missile also do that.. Especially if it has loitering capability.



A2A missiles make tight turns, S2S cruise missiles make smooth turns like an commercial aircraft since they are aerodynamically safer. Even for loitering their turn radius will be at least 1 km or more. They have no reason to bleed and increase drag.



kaykay said:


> @Zarvan
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522994429200580608



You forgot to add 1050 km with spare fuel.


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## sathya

Since it's only a second test, not many manoeuvres would have been tested.. So more range available 

Still it's has exceeded the expectations by going that extra way point..

Success it is...by all means

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## TejasMk3



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## HariPrasad

*Anantha Krishnan M *‏@writetake  14m14 minutes ago
#*BreakingNews* #Nirbhay was flown for additional time covering additional way point (no 11) with extra fuel available, top sources confirm.


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## 1ndy

sathya said:


> I am sure air crafts slow down to make tight turns...
> I guessing cruise missile also do that.. Especially if it has loitering capability.


This missile loiter during final phase only not before that. And if the missile can fly at 1.5 mach for the first 10 minutes it can fly throughout the journey towards designated target.


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## Capt.Popeye

SanjeevaniButi said:


> Not unless the turns are sudden genius. That is also found in PHYSICS. Or do you think the missile was doing the cobra maneuver.





HeHeHehehe; you have just displayed your ignorance of not only PHYSICS but also of DRIVING. 
First of all Ms.Sanjevani; one does not lose speed on a turn while driving due to changing gears! One is going to lose speed on a turn, so one needs to change gears i.e. shift into a lower gear to regain momentum (and torque) and recover the lost velocity. A deficient driver shifts after (or into) the turn. The smarter driver shifts before the turn, by which he also gains/maintains traction. Simple PHYSICS. 
Just to enlighten you, just look at how F1 and other racing drivers take turns/bends......That will also explain why race-cars (and premium performance cars) have paddle-shifting for rapid-fire shifting.

Now about Aircraft: Pilots use a similar technique sans gears........to achieve the same effect. Again Simple PHYSICS! Its related to ENERGY and the "bleeding" thereof.
Now find out what they do...........

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## Water Car Engineer

DRDO has come a LOOONG way in the missile department, I think we can all agree.

It's going to be only a matter of time before we see the same affect with the next tank and aero projects!

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## sathya

1ndy said:


> This missile loiter during final phase only not before that. And if the missile can fly at 1.5 mach for the first 10 minutes it can fly throughout the journey towards designated target.




I vaguely remember that advanced cruise missile do terrain mapping using tercom or something like that..

They do all the sneaking so as to reach the target..

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## bloo

SanjeevaniButi said:


> It does not have gears to change speed. Its speed will remain constant, whatever it is.



Not really, speed can be changed as per maneuvers in the terminal phase or during loitering.
Why do you think RLG and GPS aided nav is there in a Cruise missile anyway......

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## shree835

Water Car Engineer said:


> DRDO has come a LOOONG way in the missile department, I think we can all agree.
> 
> It's going to be only a matter of time before we see the same affect with the next tank and aero projects!



Yes Very true ..DRDO has done very good job in missile department...

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## SanjeevaniButi

Capt.Popeye said:


> HeHeHehehe; you have just displayed your ignorance of not only PHYSICS but also of DRIVING.
> First of all Ms.Sanjevani; one does not lose speed on a turn while driving due to changing gears! One is going to lose speed on a turn, so one needs to change gears i.e. shift into a lower gear to regain momentum (and torque) and recover the lost velocity. A deficient driver shifts after (or into) the turn. The smarter driver shifts before the turn, by which he also gains/maintains traction. Simple PHYSICS.
> Just to enlighten you, just look at how F1 and other racing drivers take turns/bends......That will also explain why race-cars (and premium performance cars) have paddle-shifting for rapid-fire shifting.
> 
> Now about Aircraft: Pilots use a similar technique sans gears........to achieve the same effect. Again Simple PHYSICS! Its related to ENERGY and the "bleeding" thereof.
> Now find out what they do...........



Since this topic is not about driving or mechanics, I did not bother to go into details. Modern roads have banking so there is no loss of speed while turning. Unless is a sudden turn. get it ?

Find out what chip on the shoulder means.


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## HariPrasad

Now I am awaiting for the test in which missile the target and come back.


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## 1ndy

sathya said:


> I vaguely remember that advanced cruise missile do terrain mapping using tercom or something like that..
> 
> They do all the sneaking so as to reach the target..


It only proved that Nirbhay could reach a speed more that 1.5 mach when flying a bit higher in straight line.


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## Water Car Engineer

Crazy thing is, there are several more missile, smart bomb projects going to occur in the near future. Almost covering the whole spectrum of needs.

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## jugad

Water Car Engineer said:


> DRDO has come a LOOONG way in the missile department, I think we can all agree.
> 
> It's going to be only a matter of time before we see the same affect with the next tank and aero projects!


Yes sir!!! Now we need to deploy these in good numbers into our forces


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## SanjeevaniButi

bloo said:


> Not really, speed can be changed as per maneuvers in the terminal phase or during loitering.
> Why do you think RLG and GPS aided nav is there in a Cruise missile anyway......



Navigation aids are not there to change speed, its there to provide course correction. 

The whole point of the missile will be to ensure that speed is not lost. Not the other way around.

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## cerberus

Water Car Engineer said:


> Crazy thing is, there are several more missile, smart bomb projects going to occur in the near future. Almost covering the whole spectrum of needs.


Im Desperate about THIS One

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## Capt.Popeye

SanjeevaniButi said:


> Since this topic is not about driving or mechanics, I did not bother to go into details. Modern roads have banking so there is no loss of speed while turning. Unless is a sudden turn. get it ?
> 
> Find out what chip on the shoulder means.



First find out what Simple PHYSICS says, Ms.Sanjeevani. 
BTW, the banked turns are a safety feature. Again 'Energy' related as in Centripetal, Centrifugal etc

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## sathya

Water Car Engineer said:


> Now we wait for the awesome video.
> 
> Next Gen Kolkata, Shivalik, etc will get this bad boy. Along with Brahmos!




As per our scientist., bad boy is GSLV MK3 ..
Let s have the treat again very shortly..


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## Water Car Engineer

sathya said:


> As per our scientist., bad boy is GSLV MK3 ..
> Let s have the treat again very shortly..


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## kṣamā

So with this test we also validated that our jet engine is a go too !!!


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## HariPrasad

1ndy said:


> It only proved that Nirbhay could reach a speed more that 1.5 mach when flying a bit higher in straight line.




No it can not. It uses the Gas turbine engine. To cross mach 1 it has to be push very hard (Probably in after burner mode) Which will burn a lots of fuel. This type of missile are optimized for fuel efficiency for higher range and not for high speed. It is a mach 0.7 speed missile. That is why it took more than 1 hour (nearly 1 Hr. 30 minutes) to reach 1050 KM.

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## The_Sidewinder

congratulation on the successful test. Way to DRDO..hats off.


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## trident2010

Acche din aa gaye .. for DRDO


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## jugad

Ok this might sound dumb, but can nirbhy be used as a payload for agni?


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## Munir

This is exact copy of a tomohawk. Let me remind you how Indians reacted when Pakistan tested a decade ago Babur... If one repeats that (and indeed this one looks a lot more then a tomahawk) it is suddenly a nationalistic blind person. Let me ask you, what is the difference? And how come India is behind Pakistan?

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## TejasMk3

Nirbhay Missile covered 14 way Point , 4 More then Planned : NDTV | idrw.org

Totally estimated range is 1100km.
Longer range variant is planned, that will have atleast 2000 km. Missile expected to be handed over to the army in about 3 years, after a few more tests.

Newer super sonic cruise missile in the works, 2000 km and same speed as brahmos (3.2 mach)

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## sathya

SanjeevaniButi

Cruise Missiles



Let's enjoy today's success , shall we ?

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## Munir

Ammyy said:


> @WebMaster @Horus look at this troll so that it can not be convert into VS thread.



Troll?


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## 1ndy

HariPrasad said:


> No it can not. It uses the Gas turbine engine. To cross mach 1 it has to be push very hard (Probably in after burner mode) Which will burn a lots of fuel. This type of missile are optimized for fuel efficiency for higher range and not for high speed. It is a mach 0.7 speed missile. That is why it took more than 1 hour (nearly 1 Hr. 30 minutes) to reach 1050 KM.


According to a tweet by tarmak007 it flew first 300km in just 10 mins.
1800kmph


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## Ammyy

Munir said:


> Troll?



By calling it copy of tomhowk without find out specification and range he was just posting BS nothing else

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## Capt.Popeye

WRT some posts here; while the Nirbhay is definitely nuclear-capable, it is not intended to be primarily nuke-tipped.
There are some other warheads which are singularly effective, viz. FAE warheads. Earlier this year, I had an opportunity to see a demo; which was awesome sans any mushrooms. Its already been inducted into some of the Missile Forces. Then there are new-age explosives such as CL20 which have passed the proto stage.

@Tshering22; just for your info: up-ranging the Brahmos is a work in progress without any Russian involvement (for a number of reasons). In any case, do not lay too much store by the declared range.

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## Munir

TejasMk3 said:


> Nirbhay Missile covered 14 way Point , 4 More then Planned : NDTV | idrw.org
> 
> Totally estimated range is 1100km.
> Longer range variant is planned, that will have atleast 2000 km. Missile expected to be handed over to the army in about 3 years, after a few more tests.
> 
> Newer super sonic cruise missile in the works, 2000 km and same speed as brahmos (3.2 mach)



I am interested in how that is possible... how would one sustain energy? Otherwise it is needed to be huge. Why not saying lightspeed in 2017?


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## bloo

SanjeevaniButi said:


> Navigation aids are not there to change speed, its there to provide course correction.
> 
> The whole point of the missile will be to ensure that speed is not lost. Not the other way around.



Actually the point of the missile is to accurately hit the target without being detected, regardless of the loss in speed specially in a sub-sonic cruise missile.
There will always be a need for speed changes for course correction and to accommodate calculations from GPS nav, RLG,tercom et cetra.



> *The F107-402 engine on board Tomahawk LACM provided the new BLK III with a throttle control, allowing in-flight speed changes.*


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## PoKeMon

Ammyy said:


> By calling it copy of tomhowk without find out specification and range he was just posting BS nothing else



You are rated negatively. 

Oh man these kiddish TTAs.

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## gau8av

jugad said:


> Ok this might sound dumb, but can nirbhy be used as a payload for agni?


like multiple reentry cruise missiles ? 

probably a big too big for that, and makes no sense.. cruise is cruise, terrain hugging/sea skimming and ballistic missiles are like death from outerspace, they serve different purposes. 

a weaponized gajraj with air launched nirbhays would be cool though


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## DingDong

kṣamā said:


> So with this test we also validated that our jet engine is a go too !!!



Cruise Missile Engines are considerably different from Turbofans in Fighter Aircraft which take considerably more stress and have to operate reliably under wide range of operations conditions.

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## Munir

Ammyy said:


> By calling it copy of tomhowk without find out specification and range he was just posting BS nothing else


 I have seen tons of ridiculous claims on this forum. But I do not think these are called trolls. BTW, I have been around for decades and I say it is a copy of Tomahawk design. Does that make me a troll or do I have the right of an opinion and it is probably a copy... Let us be fair. Nothing the Indians planned worled. Now USA wants India to be counter of China. Suddenly you have a working Tomahawk copy? That is not trolling my friend. That is an opinion. And if you ask me that is more realistic knowing Indian background.


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## RKO

jugad said:


> Ok this might sound dumb, but can nirbhy be used as a payload for agni?


why do want a cruise missile on ballistic missile? ??


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## Water Car Engineer

Munir said:


> I have seen tons of ridiculous claims on this forum. But I do not think these are called trolls. BTW, I have been around for decades and I say it is a copy of Tomahawk design. Does that make me a troll or do I have the right of an opinion and it is probably a copy... *Let us be fair. Nothing the Indians planned worled. Now USA wants India to be counter of China. Suddenly you have a working Tomahawk copy? That is not trolling my friend. That is an opinion. And if you ask me that is more realistic knowing Indian background.*




Wow, good one. India struggles to get ToT for critical parts of the javelin missile but some how gets a copy of a Tomahawk missile. Good one genius.

And about the nothing works. Please look at the missile tests from the past 3 years. Most of them are flawless.

Bitterness at it's finest.

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## Munir

DingDong said:


> Cruise Missile Engines are considerably different from Turbofans in Fighter Aircraft which take considerably more stress and have to operate reliably under wide range of operations conditions.



You have no clue my friend. Getting mach 1 and keeping that for long period to travel that distance... That is a rocket engine. and just tell me, if others do not have that how come Indians will have it? After reaching Mars with a lego packet (bought from others, guided by others) you suddenly want to jump ahead of the rest of the world. Reality is India can not produce a basic prop trainer. You get now and then injection by foreign powers that want you to grow against China. In reality you get the same proxy status as Pakistan... Congrats.


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## Ammyy

Ammyy said:


> @WebMaster @Horus look at this troll so that it can not be convert into VS thread.



@WebMaster just look at this so called TT misusing using his power, people like @Munir make this rating system useless.

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## kaykay

jugad said:


> Ok this might sound dumb, but can nirbhy be used as a payload for agni?


Well warheads itself are light but its size of RVs which matters. If ever, Nirbhay will carry smaller RVs with 12-17 KT warhead.


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## Bang Galore

Capt.Popeye said:


> In any case, do not lay too much store by the declared range.



 290 km exactly.........

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## RKO

Munir said:


> I have seen tons of ridiculous claims on this forum. But I do not think these are called trolls. BTW, I have been around for decades and I say it is a copy of Tomahawk design. Does that make me a troll or do I have the right of an opinion and it is probably a copy... Let us be fair. Nothing the Indians planned worled. Now USA wants India to be counter of China. Suddenly you have a working Tomahawk copy? That is not trolling my friend. That is an opinion. And if you ask me that is more realistic knowing Indian background.


im wondering how on earth you became a think tank???

@Ammyy man... you got negative rating for calling a troller.... troll.!!!Lol so funny! !

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## sathya

TejasMk3 said:


> Nirbhay Missile covered 14 way Point , 4 More then Planned : NDTV | idrw.org)




I hope some other news source comes up with.. " nirbhay missile covered 10 way points more than planned"


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## Munir

Water Car Engineer said:


> Wow, good one. India struggles to get ToT for critical parts of the javelin missile but some how gets a copy of a Tomahawk missile. Good one genius.
> 
> And about the nothing works. Please look at the missile tests from the past 3 years. Most of them are flawless.



Haha. Let me remind you your last test of this missile... A few seconds flight and they call it successful till it crashed in a few minutes. Here we are looking at a nation that is the largest in the world. Busy with 3d generation aircraft since the 90's. Not even able to produce a prop plane. It has all the input it can get from Israel, USA and Europe. And now you wannebee superpowaah. I smell Modi. A seller of chai now acting like God after massacre of Muslims in Gujarat. Enjoy it, After MKI crash you need something positive.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## SamantK

Munir said:


> This is exact copy of a tomohawk. Let me remind you how Indians reacted when Pakistan tested a decade ago Babur... If one repeats that (and indeed this one looks a lot more then a tomahawk) it is suddenly a nationalistic blind person. Let me ask you, what is the difference? And how come India is behind Pakistan?


To tank in basic logic is not a great thing.

A copy can be made when the original is available, unless you think that India has the capability to simply look at videos of F-22 and copy it. 

Pakistan had failed Tomahawk missiles (in its possession long back) which was used to reverse engineer and make a copy called Babur.

Here lies the difference, Pakistan hardly fails any missile test, you are way ahead of us 

Even after having the original you came out with a missile before us so obviously you are ahead of us here too 

After all, we with so many failures are inching to reach the level of achievements Pakistan has made. Let us have fun with our look and copied defence equipment in the mean time. We are a third world country after all

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## Jayanta

Munir said:


> You have no clue my friend. Getting mach 1 and keeping that for long period to travel that distance... That is a rocket engine. and just tell me, if others do not have that how come Indians will have it? After reaching Mars with a lego packet (bought from others, guided by others) you suddenly want to jump ahead of the rest of the world. Reality is India can not produce a basic prop trainer. You get now and then injection by foreign powers that want you to grow against China. In reality you get the same proxy status as Pakistan... Congrats.

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## Capt.Popeye

Munir said:


> I have seen tons of ridiculous claims on this forum. But I do not think these are called trolls. BTW, I have been around for decades and I say it is a copy of Tomahawk design. Does that make me a troll or do I have the right of an opinion and it is probably a copy... Let us be fair. Nothing the Indians planned worled. Now USA wants India to be counter of China. Suddenly you have a working Tomahawk copy? That is not trolling my friend. That is an opinion. And if you ask me that is more realistic knowing Indian background.




Just add the post above to the (reasonably long) list of ridiculous claims, apart from being totally unsubstantiated and even astronomical in the degree of its speculation. Now will you bring on another "farmer" story to support what you say?  'bout as realistic as it will get, nah?

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## Lostsoldier

A2Z said:


> Did Russian helped India with this or they have done it by themselves this time?



Troll Alert!! What you say wanna play troll for troll. Haha


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## Omega007

Munir said:


> You have no clue my friend. Getting mach 1 and keeping that for long period to travel that distance... That is a rocket engine. and just tell me, if others do not have that how come Indians will have it? After reaching Mars with a lego packet (bought from others, guided by others) you suddenly want to jump ahead of the rest of the world. Reality is India can not produce a basic prop trainer. You get now and then injection by foreign powers that want you to grow against China. In reality you get the same proxy status as Pakistan... Congrats.




Every one here knows how big a moron you are brother,no need for you to try so hard to prove it all over again!!Cheers............

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## RKO

@Capt.Popeye
captain, is there any possibility of converting nirbay into a suicide drone with decreased range.... something like "IAI harop"???


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## HariPrasad

Bharat Mata ki Jay. Vande Mataram. 

Har Har Mahade. Jai mataji.

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## Water Car Engineer

Munir said:


> Haha. Let me remind you your last test of this missile... A few seconds flight and they call it successful till it crashed in a few minutes. Here we are looking at a nation that is the largest in the world. Busy with 3d generation aircraft since the 90's. Not even able to produce a prop plane. It has all the input it can get from Israel, USA and Europe. And now you wannebee superpowaah. I smell Modi. A beggar selling chai now acting like God after massacre of Muslims in Gujarat. Enjoy it, After MKI crash you need something positive.




Here, we're talking about a nation that tested an 700-1500km SLBM like 15 times successfully and will test it out an SSBN in sea trials. And another 3500km SLBM already successfully fired.

And the ICBM Agni 5 tested 2 times and awaiting final canisterization launch. Come again?

Indian Missile Test Watch


Take a look at the missile launches from 2013.

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## sathya

Munir said:


> This is exact copy of a tomohawk. Let me remind you how Indians reacted when Pakistan tested a decade ago Babur... If one repeats that (and indeed this one looks a lot more then a tomahawk) it is suddenly a nationalistic blind person. Let me ask you, what is the difference? And how come India is behind Pakistan?



Why would we take so much time to make second test?
Even by your calculations.. 

USA gave the design and RUSSIA the engine.. 
Which itself a great thing , don't you think? 
Two opposite super powers wanting India to have Nirbhay

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## Novice09

Munir said:


> This is exact copy of a tomohawk. Let me remind you how Indians reacted when Pakistan tested a decade ago Babur... If one repeats that (and indeed this one looks a lot more then a tomahawk) it is suddenly a nationalistic blind person. Let me ask you, what is the difference? And how come India is behind Pakistan?



Well all I can say is that we do not participated in war on terror post 9/11' thus; no tomahawk was dropped in our territory; thus we are a decade behind for HAVING a sub sonic cruise missile...

BUT we are ahead in DEVELOPING a sub sonic cruise missile at our own...

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## kaykay

To all butthurts, apply burnol and GTFO.
On topic: Nirbhay and Brahmos will make a good combo.

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## Capt.Popeye

Bang Galore said:


> 290 km exactly.........



LOLLLLL, YES. not even 0.5 km more........

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## DANGER-ZONE

Congrats Neighbors !
You guys finally catch up after almost 10 years.

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## The Great One

Guys, this Munir is a suicide troll, don't engage him.


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## Lostsoldier

Zarvan said:


> O cut the crap its just like Babur with same range and qualities but you are free to live in blind nationalism but that doesn't change the fact that Nirbhay and Babur both are copies of Tomahawk cruise Missile


Well you guys have expertise in copying and above all Painting.We don't copy and paste stuff.Stop bitching here and stop getting trolled.
Forgive me if u felt bad and don't attack me with an aircraft carrier


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## gau8av

nirbhay










tomahawk





babur

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## Capt.Popeye

kaykay said:


> To all butthurts, apply burnol and GTFO.
> On topic: Nirbhay and Brahmos will make a good combo.




To do what? To apply copious amounts of Burnol?

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## Omega007

RKO said:


> @Capt.Popeye
> captain, is there any possibility of converting nirbay into a suicide drone with decreased range.... something like "IAI harop"???



Why not??All you would need is to retrofit this LACM with a passive radar homing seeker which can pinpoint to the location of a ground based radar antenna.That way you can turn this into an anti radiation missile/drone.


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## Lostsoldier

Jayanta said:


>


He admits pakistan is terrorist state. You should happily gift it now


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## Omega007

gau8av said:


> nirbhay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tomahawk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> babur



You nailed it bro.

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## Sam Manekshaw

Ammyy said:


> @WebMaster @Horus look at this troll so that it can not be convert into VS thread.


@Munir why you gave him negative rating?

@Chak Bamu kindly take a note.

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## Zarvan

Kunwar Anurag Rathore said:


> Well you guys have expertise in copying and above all Painting.We don't copy and paste stuff.Stop bitching here and stop getting trolled.
> Forgive me if u felt bad and don't attack me with an aircraft carrier











Yes you do copy

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## duhastmish

Munir said:


> Haha. Let me remind you your last test of this missile... A few seconds flight and they call it successful till it crashed in a few minutes. Here we are looking at a nation that is the largest in the world. Busy with 3d generation aircraft since the 90's. Not even able to produce a prop plane. It has all the input it can get from Israel, USA and Europe. And now you wannebee superpowaah. I smell Modi. A seller of chai now acting like God after massacre of Muslims in Gujarat. Enjoy it, After MKI crash you need something positive.


Tujhe mirchi lagi to main jya karon.

You arr a pathetic little looser. You are yes you are. Give us a logic or go to your hole.

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## Water Car Engineer

Omega007 said:


> You nailed it bro.



It wasnt something that needed to be clarified, it was such a stupid comment. 



> Now USA wants India to be counter of China. Suddenly you have a working Tomahawk copy? That is not trolling my friend. That is an opinion. And if you ask me that is more realistic knowing Indian background.



Like this really came from a "think tank".

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## Lostsoldier

Well guys we have air superiority planes with cannards,we have homing missiles,we have assault riffles and other tech.Some countries had this stuff before us.So these Pakistani trolls mean to say we copied them all and painted them?? Well m8 that's not our way 
No Offence!!


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## Zarvan

Narbanko Gujrati said:


> copy how
> what things copied
> copy in which sense


Just google our Babur and its features shape and design and almost everything is same mate @Rashid Mahmood

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## halupridol

haters gonna hate

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## cerberus

DANGER-ZONE said:


> Congrats Neighbors !
> You guys finally catch up after almost 10 years.


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## Capt.Popeye

Omega007 said:


> Why not??All you would need is to retrofit this LACM with a passive radar homing seeker which can pinpoint to the location of a ground based radar antenna.That way you can turn this into an anti radiation missile/drone.



Well; one can add any amount of "bells and whistles'.....but is there really a need to?
There are already ARMs in existence as well as in development. Which are probably even more purpose-oriented.
As they say: "Horses for Courses".

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## Zarvan

@Munir Please post more pictures of Babur and its inside features to make it clear to Indians How nirbhay is a copy and I am not saying its a bad thing as long as defendes them and hurts there enemies all is good we do same but we never say Babur is an original idea Babur is a copy but it works for us so we give a dam weather its a copy or not its destroys the enemies that what matters only @Horus


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## Capt.Popeye

Water Car Engineer said:


> It wasnt something that needed to be clarified, it was such a stupid comment.
> 
> 
> 
> Like this really came from a "think tank".




Oh yeah......this is only pdf, and this is just another day on pdf.

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## Lostsoldier

Zarvan said:


> Yes you do copy


 It was you who gave us babur so that we can copy or your defence is so weak that our hackers stole it's tech.Both scenarios don't make sense as u r patriotic and I know many hackers from pakistan like shadow etc etc.... Anyway its ur choice choose wisely m8


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## Zarvan

DANGER-ZONE said:


> Congrats Neighbors !
> You guys finally catch up after almost 10 years.


Our Indians members here are blinded by there nationalism so no need to discuss with them


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## Omega007

duhastmish said:


> Tujhe mirchi lagi to main jya karon.
> 
> You arr a pathetic little looser. You are yes you are. Give us a logic or go to your hole.



I guess it would be 'Kya' instead of 'jya'.


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## gau8av

Omega007 said:


> You nailed it bro.


the air intake duct, completely different design from Tomahawk and it's pakistani copy babur

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## Kinetic

TejasMk3 said:


> Nirbhay Missile covered 14 way Point , 4 More then Planned : NDTV | idrw.org
> 
> Totally estimated range is 1100km.
> Longer range variant is planned, that will have atleast 2000 km. Missile expected to be handed over to the army in about 3 years, after a few more tests.
> 
> Newer super sonic cruise missile in the works, 2000 km and same speed as brahmos (3.2 mach)




A mach 3.2 speed 2000 km missile will be a game changer. we need rain enemy with that.


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## Capt.Popeye

Zarvan said:


> @Munir Please post more pictures of Babur and its inside features to make it clear to Indians How nirbhay is a copy and I am not saying its a bad thing as long as defendes them and hurts there enemies all is good we do same but we never say Babur is an original idea Babur is a copy but it works for us so we give a dam weather its a copy or not its destroys the enemies that what matters only @Horus




Please, please, please.........no more "farmer" stories, please.

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## kaykay

Water Car Engineer said:


> Add Astra, PDV, Nag, Helina, etc.


Yes bro. Success list is long. Most important ones are Agni-5 ICBM, Agni-4 MRBM, K-4 SLMB, Nirbhay cruise missile and PDV.

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## acetophenol

Munir said:


> Haha. Let me remind you your last test of this missile... A few seconds flight and they call it successful till it crashed in a few minutes. Here we are looking at a nation that is the largest in the world. Busy with 3d generation aircraft since the 90's. Not even able to produce a prop plane. It has all the input it can get from Israel, USA and Europe. And now you wannebee superpowaah. I smell Modi. A seller of chai now acting like God after massacre of Muslims in Gujarat. Enjoy it, After MKI crash you need something positive.


You must become the head of planning commission of Pakistan or something. Blinded by anti India sentiments,you repeat your rants after and after,no matter what.
You have accused India's Mars mission as a "lego packet (bought from
others, guided by others)" on what basis? Can you back it in any way? And Nirbhay was a Tomahawk copy given by US? You know for how many years this project has been running for? You come with proofs to back your claims or just stop making baseles claims.

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## Munir

Tomahawk












Indian version

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## RKO

Omega007 said:


> Why not??All you would need is to retrofit this LACM with a passive radar homing seeker which can pinpoint to the location of a ground based radar antenna.That way you can turn this into an anti radiation missile/drone.


I would prefer something like Harop.... Drdo is already working on anti radiation missile!!!! 100km range would be enough! !


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## Water Car Engineer

Korean






Chinese






Pakistan






US tomahawk






Russian






Indian


What did you learn? That long range subsonic cruise missiles have mostly the same shape. #facepalm

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## duhastmish

Zarvan said:


> Just google our Babur and its features shape and design and almost everything is same mate @Rashid Mahmood


Now next tim we will try and give it jalebi shape.

till then all munir and elites keep quiet

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## Omega007

Zarvan said:


> Our Indians members here are blinded by there nationalism so no need to discuss with them



I'm not blinded,I would like to discuss with you about the thing we supposedly copied from other similar systems.You feel free to present your facts and findings,I promise I'll try to remain as unbiased as possible,given you act in same manner.Thank you.


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## Zarvan

Indian members need to understand I am not saying if they have copied Tomahawk its bad thing we did that too Mate but you need to stop saying that its original nothing about Nirbhay is original but that doesn't matter what matters Babur works for us and Nirbhay works for you both destroy our enemies so it doesn't matter weather its copy or not but at least be truthful we never said Babur was our idea it was copy but we still give a dam


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## HariPrasad

jugad said:


> Ok this might sound dumb, but can nirbhy be used as a payload for agni?




No


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## sree45

good work drdo..


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## cerberus

Zarvan said:


> @Munir Please post more pictures of Babur and its inside features to make it clear to Indians How nirbhay is a copy and I am not saying its a bad thing as long as defendes them and hurts there enemies all is good we do same but we never say Babur is an original idea Babur is a copy but it works for us so we give a dam weather its a copy or not its destroys the enemies that what matters only @Horus


Really it is First time a copy outperformed its original counter part Its Traveled almost 350km + range than babur and Still goes on

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## Alfa-Fighter

gau8av said:


> nirbhay
> 
> tomahawk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> babur



someone can tell the difference between babur and tom ???


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## RKO

Water Car Engineer said:


> Korean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US tomahawk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian


ours has longer wings....wondering why???


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## The Great One

Kinetic said:


> A mach 3.2 speed 2000 km missile will be a game changer. we need rain enemy with that.


The link says 3.2M missile with twice the range of BrahMos, not 2000km. That poster got it wrong.

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## Zarvan

cerberus said:


> Really it is First time a copy outperformed its original counter part Its Traveled almost 350km + range than babur and Still goes on


Babur has 700 KM and same is being reported for Nirbhay


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## RKO

Water Car Engineer said:


> Korean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US tomahawk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian


another question.... Russian one has no fins...why??? or It has TVC


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## HariPrasad

Capt.Popeye said:


> LOLLLLL, YES. not even 0.5 km more........




No 500+ Km


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## sathya

Munir said:


> Tomahawk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian version




I see even the nose cone of Babur and tomahawk are the same..

Thanks for the pic mate..

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## cerberus

Kunwar Anurag Rathore said:


> It was you who gave us babur so that we can copy or your defence is so weak that our hackers stole it's tech.Both scenarios don't make sense as u r patriotic and I know many hackers from pakistan like shadow etc etc.... Anyway its ur choice choose wisely m8


and the fun part is its actually out performed its original counter part in Range Etc


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## RKO

Alfa-Fighter said:


> someone can tell the difference between babur and tom ???


color and quality!!!!

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## kaykay

Zarvan said:


> Babur has 700 KM and same is being reported for Nirbhay


1050 km is being reported for Nirbhay.

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## Bang Galore

Zarvan said:


> @Munir we do same but we never say Babur is an original idea Babur is a copy *but it works for us so we give a dam weather its a copy or not its destroys the enemies that what matters only*



I agree completely.


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## The Great One

Zarvan said:


> Babur has 700 KM and same is being reported for Nirbhay


You see this or what?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/522994429200580608

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## Omega007

Capt.Popeye said:


> Well; one can add any amount of "bells and whistles'.....but is there really a need to?
> There are already ARMs in existence as well as in development. Which are probably even more purpose-oriented.
> As they say: "Horses for Courses".



Well,that's a different question altogether,isn't it??Yes,we do have quite a few Krypton ARMs but I would argue that even with them,the SEAD aircraft has to venture into enemy territory,may be even within the interception envelope of the said SAM site,and so there will always be a danger to that launch aircraft.But if you have 1100 km range ARM,you do not have to send a SEAD aircraft in the harm's way!!What do you think??


----------



## Capt.Popeye

duhastmish said:


> Now next tim we will try and give it jalebi shape.
> 
> till then all munir and elites keep quiet



Will that satisfy Munir our pdf analist? 
So why waste your time on fringe elements and fantasies. Lets just go by the clearly visible and demonstrated facts. Which have now even come into the Public Domain.

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## Water Car Engineer

Zarvan said:


> Babur has 700 KM and same is being reported for Nirbhay



From the very start of the program it was said to have 1000 km range. In this test it went 1050 km.


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## cerberus

Water Car Engineer said:


> Korean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US tomahawk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian
> 
> 
> What did you learn? That long range subsonic cruise missiles have mostly the same shape. #facepalm


yeah toh



hoh gya

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## Capt.Popeye

Omega007 said:


> Well,that's a different question altogether,isn't it??Yes,we do have quite a few Krypton ARMs but I would argue that even with them,the SEAD aircraft has to venture into enemy territory,may be even within the interception envelope of the said SAM site,and so there will always be a danger to that launch aircraft.But if you have 1100 km range ARM,you do not have to send a SEAD aircraft in the harm's way!!What do you think??



Does one only need to carry out SEAD with an aircraft. What are the Harops for?

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## SrNair

Zarvan said:


> India has successfully tested its Nirbhay Cruise Missile
> 
> So Indians you basically like us just have copied Tomahawk Missile and with same Range like our Babur 700 KM



No this is the first complete test.It would be operational only after a series of tests .And it would have more than 1000km when it become operational


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## farhan_9909

Why indians always copy us?

sharam nahin ati tum logo ko? 

anyway congrats

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## TejasMk3

The people saying Nirbhay is a copy of babur... lol!
That means either you gifted us the missile to copy, or your establishment has been infiltrated to a huge extent.
Both dont make you look very bright

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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

Actually this means all are copied from the same missile


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## Bang Galore

kaykay said:


> 1050 km is being reported for Nirbhay.



He will just tell you that you are faking the figures.....let it go man. How does it really matter what anyone thinks?

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## Omega007

Capt.Popeye said:


> Does one only need to carry out SEAD with an aircraft. What are the Harops for?



That's true.But having redundancy is not always a bad thing.But you do have a valid point though.


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## bloo

Zarvan said:


> Indian members need to understand I am not saying if they have copied Tomahawk its bad thing we did that too Mate but you need to stop saying that its original nothing about Nirbhay is original but that doesn't matter what matters Babur works for us and Nirbhay works for you both destroy our enemies so it doesn't matter weather its copy or not but at least be truthful we never said Babur was our idea it was copy but we still give a dam



Oh no no no.....We can say its original coz we didn't have a failed tomahawk falling in our doorsteps to reverse engineer, all we had were the optimal and most common design concept among almost every other cruise missile from every other country which too is different.

*Nirbhay intake *






Intake of.......
Chinese YJ-62





Tomahawk





Babur




Notice and fathom the difference.

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## Lostsoldier

Well I can prove Pakistanis freinds that it's not a copy by logic they give.
Aww. Ok here it is!!guys!!hold on!
Don't you see it has a different paint job.
How can Indians miss this reason.How dumb Pals.


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## jugad

Tomhawk copy? Joke of the decade !! Provide facts about to substantiate your claims if you have any otherwise please leave and let us continue discussion


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## sathya

Nirbhay have long wings in midsection both length wise and height wise
Air inlet is also different , nose cone too..

No way it's a copy of single missile at least ..

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## Contrarian

Zarvan said:


> Babur has 700 KM and same is being reported for Nirbhay


All the news reports are copying PTI (official govt) which misprinted. Its 700-*1000kms*, not 700-100 kms.

Nirbhay is over 1000kms in range.
In fact, this test today, Nirbhay covered *1050 kms* to target.

The eventual goal IIRC is 1500km range.

Babur OTOH is a 700 km ranged missile.

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## Omega007

bloo said:


> Oh no no no.....We can say its original coz we didn't have a failed tomahawk falling in our doorsteps to reverse engineer, all we had were the optimal and most common design concept among almost every other cruise missile from every other country which too is different.
> 
> *Nirbhay intake *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intake of.......
> Chinese YJ-62
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tomahawk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Babur



So,if looks alone indicates anything,then both the YJ 62 and Babur (paint job of a down graded YJ 62) are mere copies of American BGM 109s!!

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## SamantK

Capt.Popeye said:


> Will that satisfy Munir our pdf analist?
> So why waste your time on fringe elements and fantasies. Lets just go by the clearly visible and demonstrated facts. Which have now even come into the Public Domain.


 
Sir, you are very disrespectful of a known Tank 

How can you not know that NATO conventions were decided based on who could handle the aircraft!  This also amounts to disrespect to all the farmers in the world 

Its a great day for us and thanks to all those who have worked for our nation, including you!


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## Water Car Engineer

Nirbhay designers gave it Russian style airintake.


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## Contrarian

Frankly, I am _slightly_ disappointed.

I thought that this test would be for 1500 kms range. Instead it was for just 1000kms.

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## ni8mare




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## ares

farhan_9909 said:


> Why indians always copy us?
> 
> sharam nahin ati tum logo ko?
> 
> anyway congrats



Actually surpassed you, at 1100 Kms Nirbhay flies 400 Kms more than Babur...Where as first version of Babur had a range of 500 Kms.

A longer range 2000 Km version Nirbhay is in development.

Nirbhay Missile covered 14 way Point , 4 More then Planned : NDTV | idrw.org

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## Water Car Engineer

Contrarian said:


> Frankly, I am _slightly_ disappointed.
> 
> I thought that this test would be for 1500 kms range. Instead it was for just 1000kms.



It was always 1000km from the very start.

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## narcon




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## farhan_9909

ares said:


> Actually surpassed you, at 1100 Kms Nirbhay flies 400 Kms more than Babur...Where as first version of Babur had a range of 500 Kms.
> 
> A longer range 2000 Km version Nirbhay is in development.
> 
> Nirbhay Missile covered 14 way Point , 4 More then Planned : NDTV | idrw.org



We will never reveal the true range of our Babur 

we might end up targeting a indian city 1500km away from Pakistan and blame it on someone else

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## acetophenol

Zarvan said:


> Indian members need to understand I am not saying if they have copied Tomahawk its bad thing we did that too Mate but you need to stop saying that its original nothing about Nirbhay is original but that doesn't matter what matters Babur works for us and Nirbhay works for you both destroy our enemies so it doesn't matter weather its copy or not but at least be truthful we never said Babur was our idea it was copy but we still give a dam


On one side you are saying that Nirbhay is not a copy and other side you are saying its not 'original'! Why is Nirbhay not original?

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## Screambowl

Albatross said:


> Nirbhay or Murphy no matter what India makes Pakistani's are always gonna remain superior in all senses.
> 
> View attachment 129935



othe aithe chal hatt pare daffa hun eitho 



farhan_9909 said:


> We will never reveal the true range of our Babur
> 
> we might end up targeting a indian city 1500km away from Pakistan and blame it on someone else


 babad nu totey lejave miya haulle haulle..  India nu target karn waste ankha vich soorma pao lolxxxx

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## cerberus

Contrarian said:


> Frankly, I am _slightly_ disappointed.
> 
> I thought that this test would be for 1500 kms range. Instead it was for just 1000kms.


Nirbhay Missile covered 14 way Point , 4 More then Planned : NDTV | idrw.org


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## Lostsoldier

farhan_9909 said:


> We will never reveal the true range of our Babur
> 
> we might end up targeting a indian city 1500km away from Pakistan and blame it on someone else


Oh! I reckon you mean to say. 1 babur(700km) + 1 babur 700km can give 1500 km range Ahaha still 100 km short...You probably have merits in Maths


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## The_Sidewinder

farhan_9909 said:


> Why indians always copy us?
> 
> sharam nahin ati tum logo ko?
> 
> anyway congrats



Sharam gayi ghass khane, thank you bhaijaan.

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## Screambowl

cerberus said:


> Nirbhay Missile covered 14 way Point , 4 More then Planned : NDTV | idrw.org


how many way points to target sargodha if launched from jaisalmer sector?


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## OrionHunter

Zarvan said:


> You just proved yourself a genius


*Sarcasm on*
Thanks for the compliments Zarvan bhai! Coming from a Pakistani like you means so much to me!! 
*sarcasm off*

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## sathya

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/523016201069277184
What the ...

Last time su 30 mki followed , this time jaguar ..

Now jaguar has demonstrated it can fly 1100km at sea level .. Lol

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## ares

farhan_9909 said:


> We will never reveal the true range of our Babur
> 
> we might end up targeting a indian city 1500km away from Pakistan and blame it on someone else



Not interested in hyperboles..back your statements with evidence.


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## Sardar Singh

*Sardar Khush hua,Party manao Ab BC*














*This one for @Zarvan *

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## GORKHALI

congrats drdo...You guys did it.


@Indian membere ...Is it me or everyone, Babur CM look big,stub and crude missile rather cruise missile.

Compare it to chinese YJ 12,Tomahawk,Russian or Indian nirbhay which look stealthy,clean slender design.

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## Jayanta

Congratulations India....BTW This thread smells like burned meat...looks like somebody's @rse is on fire??? or somebody has a heart burn??

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## The Great One

GORKHALI said:


> congrats drdo...You guys did it.
> 
> 
> @Indian membere ...Is it me or everyone, Babur CM look big,stub and crude missile rather cruise missile.
> 
> Compare it to chinese YJ 12,Tomahawk,Russian or Indian nirbhay which look stealthy,clean slender design.


SSSSSHHHHH..................
They still think it's a '*STEALTH*' missile

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## The_Sidewinder

Jayanta said:


> Congratulations India....BTW This thread smells like burned meat...looks like somebody's @rse is on fire??? or somebody has a heart burn??



Besi kamur nidiba, pakistaani bondhu hokol a beya paba. Khng ot ban kori dibo laajot mukh dhakibo nuwari.
Congratulation to you too buddy


----------



## Munir

sathya said:


> I see even the nose cone of Babur and tomahawk are the same..
> 
> Thanks for the pic mate..



Well it is a fact that we do posses technology from Tomahawk. That should be no shocking news to anyone. Just count the number of those traveling over Pakistan to hit Afghanistan. There are more then a few crashed inside Pakistan. I do not say they use them but they could. I do not mind. It was there when it was needed. It did shock India. But I do have to add that Pakistan had asked India to add cruise missile tests in a treaty to inform each other. India did not wanted it. So the next big thing was a Babur. Which is a great asset for asymmetrical warfare.

The next thing was India pushing its navy to new high. The next thing I heard as hypersonic anti ship asset for JF17.

So it is interesting how both these nations evolve. And I am surprised how well new weapons are designed and developed by Pakistan. Those you have not seen and will not see for long time. We have issues with democracy (corrupt) but we have big group of the very best producing the very best. Not only a paintjob. 

p.s. Being Pakistani doesn't mean I like jeleby...

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## Jayanta

The_Sidewinder said:


> Besi kamur nidiba, pakistaani bondhu hokol a beya paba. Khng ot ban kori dibo laajot mukh dhakibo nuwari.
> Congratulation to you too buddy



Kiman ban koribo....aaru eta id khulim. Kintu kamur diyat kunu dhoronor compromise nai dei....chance palei bhal kamur dim. LOL.

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## The_Sidewinder

Jayanta said:


> Kiman ban koribo....aaru eta id khulim. Kintu kamur diyat kunu dhoronor compromise nai dei....chance palei bhal kamur dim. LOL.



he he he....
Carry on then....

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## Munir

RKO said:


> ours has longer wings....wondering why???


 Where is the intake?


----------



## syedali73

Ammyy said:


> @WebMaster @Horus look at this troll so that it can not be convert into VS thread.


Great! so now one-liner protests (for which GHQ is the place) will also score positive ratings. Positive ratings were never that cheap previously. I have always maintained that Indians are first Indians and anything else (if something is left) after that. Awarding them TT status together with powers of giving rating was never a good idea. Instead of countering @Munir, @SpArK balanced the post by giving a positive rating. The PDF is becoming an interesting place day after day, thanks largely to Indian trolls.


----------



## danger007

Munir said:


> Well it is a fact that we do posses technology from Tomahawk. That should be no shocking news to anyone. Just count the number of those traveling over Pakistan to hit Afghanistan. There are more then a few crashed inside Pakistan. I do not say they use them but they could. I do not mind. It was there when it was needed. It did shock India. But I do have to add that Pakistan had asked India to add cruise missile tests in a treaty to inform each other. India did not wanted it. So the next big thing was a Babur. Which is a great asset for asymmetrical warfare.
> 
> The next thing was India pushing its navy to new high. The next thing I heard as hypersonic anti ship asset for JF17.
> 
> So it is interesting how both these nations evolve.




does JF 17 carried any missile test with CM 400 ??? definitely it is not a wild card. .

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## Munir

Water Car Engineer said:


> Korean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US tomahawk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian
> 
> 
> What did you learn? That long range subsonic cruise missiles have mostly the same shape. #facepalm



Then what did India take so long to build one?


----------



## Aarush

According to NDTV Science editor Pallav Bagla , In today's Launch Nirbhay covered 14 way Point , 4 More then Planned , and today's test was more then 100 % successful , since it was able to carry out more tests due to extra fuel in the missiles.
Pallav Bagla over the phone to NDTV confirmed the latest development.* missile covered close to 1100 km in first full range test . DRDO Chief has promised that missile will be handed over to Indian Army in 3 years and after few more tests it will enter Production .*

*News doing round is that new longer range cruise missile is planned and simultaneous development of Naval variant and Air launched variant are also planned . New longer Nirbhay will have more range close to 2000km but such development has not been confirmed by DRDO yet . DRDO also is working longer range supersonic cruise missile (LRCM) which will have twice the range of current BrahMos supersonic cruise missile but will have similar speed of Mach 3.2 . LRCM has been planned for first flight in 2017-18 period *

Nirbhay Missile covered 14 way Point , 4 More then Planned : NDTV | idrw.org

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## sathya

Munir said:


> Well it is a fact that we do posses technology from Tomahawk. That should be no shocking news to anyone. Just count the number of those traveling over Pakistan to hit Afghanistan. There are more then a few crashed inside Pakistan. I do not say they use them but they could. I do not mind. It was there when it was needed. It did shock India. But I do have to add that Pakistan had asked India to add cruise missile tests in a treaty to inform each other. India did not wanted it. So the next big thing was a Babur. Which is a great asset for asymmetrical warfare.
> 
> The next thing was India pushing its navy to new high. The next thing I heard as hypersonic anti ship asset for JF17.
> 
> So it is interesting how both these nations evolve. And I am surprised how well new weapons are designed and developed by Pakistan. Those you have not seen and will not see for long time. We have issues with democracy (corrupt) but we have big group of the very best producing the very best. Not only a paintjob.
> 
> p.s. Being Pakistani doesn't mean I like jeleby...




Smaller nations for their survival have to be pro on getting new weapons otherwise their game is over
Babur got inducted first , JF 17 also the same.. I mean inducting ahead of bullies..
Now since the economy is all but over , you cannot be ahead anymore..

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## Storm Force

Munir the reason we took this long was because we where building the 

Arihant nuclear sub
Kolkatta stealth firgates
Dhurv helicopters
Brshmos cruise missles
Akash Sam systems
Talwar stealth frigates
Pinka mbrl
Satalites
Agni five icbm

The list goes on and on

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## SamantK

syedali73 said:


> Great! so now one-liner protests (for which GHQ is the place) will also score positive ratings. Positive ratings were never that cheap previously. I have always maintained that Indians are first Indians and anything else (if something is left) after that. Awarding them TT status together with powers of giving rating was never a good idea. Instead of countering @Munir, @SpArK balanced the post by giving a positive rating. The PDF is becoming an interesting place day after day, thanks largely to Indian trolls.


Obviously like Paksitanis, hyperboles are being passed off as facts but hey you would not note that. Cause, there is not a single post on topic from you but a rant.

Your bias is for everyone to see. Which facts did @Munir provide to substantiate his arguments? Just rants and nothing else.

You have a problem with Indians, do rant in the GHQ not on this thread.

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## Furqan Syed

The arms race will not end peacefully for sure... so what shall be the policy of peaceful residents ?

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## bloo



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## Skull and Bones

Furqan Syed said:


> so what shall be the policy of peaceful residents ?



Put your head down, and do whatever you're good at for the benefit of the nation.

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## oFFbEAT

*I don't understand why Indian members are hell bent on engaging Pakistani trolls........*

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## Storm Force

We have ten times the resources of the Pakistanis.

We can build bigger better quicker in less time with ease.

We have the money the GDP and the technology.


----------



## Windjammer

Just imagine if there was no PDF, what would these Indians do......most probably they would write all on a piece of paper, tie it to a balloon and let it lose in the air....... even if PDF management started charging few pennies for each post,..... no Indian would even log on this forum. ..... but hey, we Pakistanis have a big heart, enjoy the moment and liberty......but try to leave your Indian manners where they belong and don't spit in the plate you eat from. !!!


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## HariPrasad

Zarvan said:


> Babur has 700 KM and same is being reported for Nirbhay




Nirbhay get 1050 range in its forst successful test. The range is 1500 KM that is double of babur.

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## syedali73

SamantK said:


> Obviously like Paksitanis, hyperboles are being passed off as facts but hey you would not note that. Cause, there is not a single post on topic from you but a *rant*.
> 
> Your bias is for everyone to see. Which facts did @Munir provide to substantiate his arguments? Just rants and nothing else.
> 
> You have a problem with Indians, do *rant* in the GHQ not on this thread.


Please improve your English first. It is not a good idea to use a word just because it looks good to you. You are using the word 'rant'; are you aware of the meaning? As per Merriam Webster dictionary the meaning of 'rant' is:

"to talk loudly and in a way that shows anger OR to complain in a way that is unreasonable". Both of these meanings do not explain my post, which talks about awarding positive rating to a one-liner complaint, which should have been made in GHQ.


----------



## HariPrasad

farhan_9909 said:


> Why indians always copy us?
> 
> sharam nahin ati tum logo ko?
> 
> anyway congrats




Because pakistanis the most Advance country in the world in science and technology.

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## SrNair

sathya said:


> I think missile will vary its speed to take turns and all..
> We may not be able to judge it ..



In one article director said that after 300 km it will loiter around the target about 100- 150 km .I think you are right.Perhaps DRDO this waypoins have a lot of twisting and lot of loitering might needed.

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## GURU DUTT

so does that means india has after all made a big break thru or is it just jingoism  

any way congrats DRDO & indians

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## sathya

oFFbEAT said:


> *I don't understand why Indian members are hell bent on engaging Pakistani trolls........*




Like u don't 

How did u get so many negative ratings mate?

May be u r teaching us the lessons u have learnt


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## HariPrasad

ares said:


> Where as first version of Babur had a range of 500 Kms.




No it was 200 KM.

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## oFFbEAT

sathya said:


> Like u don't
> 
> How did u get so many negative ratings mate?
> 
> May be u r teaching us the lessons u have learnt


*I don't give unnecessary replies, I give worthwhile/tit-for-tat replies.....that's why the -ve ratings.....*
For eg., despite the fact that Indians have repeatedly pointed out the range of the missile as more than 1000Km, A Pakistani is asking again and again why the range is 700km like their Babur missile.......and more Indians are again replying to him......they're repeatedly saying it's a copy, you guys are repeatedly saying no........ isn't it ridiculous*??*

You being an older member than me......should have known the 'funda' behind -ve ratings.......even in this thread someone got a -ve rating for asking the Mods to help stop trolling.........is his post worthy of a -ve rating or your feeding the troll*??*

*Having less -ve rating means you post useless comments most of the times.*......and having zero -ve rating means......well, you can understand..


----------



## SamantK

syedali73 said:


> Please improve your English first. It is not a good idea to use a word just because it looks good to you. You are using the word 'rant'; are you aware of the meaning? As per Merriam Webster dictionary the meaning of 'rant' is:
> 
> "to talk loudly and in a way that shows anger OR to complain in a way that is unreasonable". Both of these meanings do not explain my post, which talks about awarding positive rating to a one-liner complaint, which should have been made in GHQ.


 
So you do not want to respond to the matter but want to comment on my English skills  that's a nice way to run away.



> Great! so now one-liner protests (for which GHQ is the place) will also score positive ratings.


 
This and the rest of your comment looks like a complaint to everyone except maybe Pakistanis, cant help them 

Respond if you can, don't try to teach me English please


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## RKO

The Great One said:


> SSSSSHHHHH..................
> They still think it's a '*STEALTH*' missile


why not??? it can even fly underground!!!!


----------



## Omega007

The_Sidewinder said:


> Besi kamur nidiba, pakistaani bondhu hokol a beya paba. Khng ot ban kori dibo laajot mukh dhakibo nuwari.
> Congratulation to you too buddy


What language is it bro??


----------



## Sam Manekshaw

The Great One said:


> The link says 3.2M missile with twice the range of BrahMos, not 2000km. That poster got it wrong.









@The Great One


----------



## SamantK

Windjammer said:


> Just imagine if there was no PDF, what would these Indians do......most probably they would write all on a piece of paper, tie it to a balloon and let it lose in the air....... even if PDF management started charging few pennies for each post,..... no Indian would even log on this forum. ..... but hey, we Pakistanis have a big heart, enjoy the moment and liberty......but try to leave your Indian manners where they belong and don't spit in the plate you eat from. !!!


Find out the biggest source of revenue of this forum and come back

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## Omega007

syedali73 said:


> Great! so now one-liner protests (for which GHQ is the place) will also score positive ratings. Positive ratings were never that cheap previously. I have always maintained that Indians are first Indians and anything else (if something is left) after that. Awarding them TT status together with powers of giving rating was never a good idea. Instead of countering @Munir, @SpArK balanced the post by giving a positive rating. The PDF is becoming an interesting place day after day, thanks largely to Indian trolls.



Only problem is you forgot to detect the actual troll,got blinded by your nationalism again??

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## The Great One

Sam Manekshaw said:


> View attachment 136752
> 
> 
> @The Great One


What? The poster confirms range of 600km as I had said earlier.


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## acetophenol

Windjammer said:


> Just imagine if there was no PDF, what would these Indians do......most probably they would write all on a piece of paper, tie it to a balloon and let it lose in the air....... even if PDF management started charging few pennies for each post,..... no Indian would even log on this forum. ..... but hey, we Pakistanis have a big heart, enjoy the moment and liberty......but try to leave your Indian manners where they belong and don't spit in the plate you eat from. !!!


Internet windy,INTERNET!

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## Omega007

Windjammer said:


> Just imagine if there was no PDF, what would these Indians do......most probably they would write all on a piece of paper, tie it to a balloon and let it lose in the air....... even if PDF management started charging few pennies for each post,..... no Indian would even log on this forum. ..... but hey, we Pakistanis have a big heart, enjoy the moment and liberty......but try to leave your Indian manners where they belong and don't spit in the plate you eat from. !!!



Looks like you learned a few new words today,nice going d!ckhead !!By the way,don't forget to apply Burnol on your burnt @rse;just some friendly advice.Ciao!!

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## Sam Manekshaw

The Great One said:


> What? The poster confirms range of 600km as I had said earlier.


...i want u to take a note of this poster.


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## The Great One

Sam Manekshaw said:


> ...i want u to take a note of this poster.


What for?


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## Windjammer

Narbanko Gujrati said:


> we dont eat from this plate
> 
> we contribute to the food on this plate
> 
> got that ...........?
> 
> 
> we provide spice on this forum and the eyeballs for the ads on top of this forum
> 
> ever wondered why all ads are indian on this forum ?
> 
> show me1 single pakistani ad on this forum



Talking big for someone who joined a couple of days earlier, if the Indians were so worthy to this forum, they wouldn't need to have multiple IDs....... anyways carry on with the discussion.


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## duhastmish

Windjammer said:


> Just imagine if there was no PDF, what would these Indians do......most probably they would write all on a piece of paper, tie it to a balloon and let it lose in the air....... even if PDF management started charging few pennies for each post,..... no Indian would even log on this forum. ..... but hey, we Pakistanis have a big heart, enjoy the moment and liberty......but try to leave your Indian manners where they belong and don't spit in the plate you eat from. !!!


Oh you are o full of yourself. Just Imagine if thr was no pdf. You would have been a suicide bomber.
You need a stuff toy to get frustration out my friend.

this is a public forum behave dear.


This is one of most accepting forum. Or you will be kicked out in 2 min.

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## Omega007

Windjammer said:


> Talking big for someone who joined a couple of days earlier, if the Indians were so worthy to this forum, they wouldn't need to have multiple IDs....... anyways carry on with the discussion.



Name a few,bring them in public,get them banned.Don't you think that would be the right course of action instead of complaining in this thread??

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## Windjammer

Omega007 said:


> Looks like you learned a few new words today,nice going d!ckhead !!By the way,don't forget to apply Burnol on your burnt @rse;just some friendly advice.Ciao!!


Listen moron. if you got a full bowl of rice served then try to digest it idiot......don't puke all over.

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## Basel

Congrats to India.

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## SrNair

Water Car Engineer said:


> DRDO has come a LOOONG way in the missile department, I think we can all agree.
> 
> It's going to be only a matter of time before we see the same affect with the next tank and aero projects!




And that is main reason of DRDO ineffectivness in other aero and tank projects.Best HR ,R&D and resources are all concentrated on missile dept.That is why they cant make success in other projects.I hope within one decade they will finish missile projects and then they will concentrated on other projects.


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## SamantK

Omega007 said:


> Name a few,bring them in public,get them banned.Don't you think that would be the right course of action instead of complaining in this thread??


 Do you think he wants to take the right course of action?


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## SrNair

Water Car Engineer said:


> DRDO has come a LOOONG way in the missile department, I think we can all agree.
> 
> It's going to be only a matter of time before we see the same affect with the next tank and aero projects!




And that is main reason of DRDO ineffectivness in other aero and tank projects.Best HR ,R&D and resources are all concentrated on missile dept.That is why they cant make success in other projects.I hope within one decade they will finish missile projects and then they will concentrated on other projects.


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## Windjammer

duhastmish said:


> Oh you are o full of yourself. Just Imagine if thr was no pdf. You would have been a suicide bomber.
> You need a stuff toy to get frustration out my friend.
> 
> this is a public forum behave dear.


And you probably would have been riding a late night Delhi bus looking for the Molestation stop.

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## Omega007

Windjammer said:


> Listen moron. if you got a full bowl of rice served then try to digest it idiot......don't puke all over.



Irrelevant dude,totally irrelevant!!That's why I keep telling you to get some proper education,all over again.............preferably not in a madrassa this time!!But aap ho ki suntehi nehi.

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## Jayanta

Windjammer said:


> Listen moron. if you got a full bowl of rice served then try to digest it idiot......don't puke all over.



Hey windpasser...isn't it the forum rule not to use abusives. Lets see if the mods have balls to ban you.

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## Windjammer

Omega007 said:


> Name a few,bring them in public,get them banned.Don't you think that would be the right course of action instead of complaining in this thread??


I wasn't complaining, neither is the need, just pointing out the behaviour of some Indians who are acting like a kid in a candy shop......as i said continue with discussion.....enjoy your moment.


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## Omega007

Jayanta said:


> Hey windpasser...isn't it the forum rule not to use abusives. Lets see if the mods have balls to ban you.



Mods have all the balls and minerals,rest assured,only the will is lacking.

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## duhastmish

Windjammer said:


> And you probably would hav been riding a late night Delhi bus looking for the Molestation stop.


I think someone molested your little arse. You got rash apply a cotton swab soked in oil.

get back to your hole. And bomb it

bhai you must not jam so much hot air. Its light and gets to your head . Release it

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## Contrarian

Windjammer said:


> And you probably would have been riding a late night Delhi bus looking for the Molestation stop.


And you must be looking for a nice dark alley in Rochester city to start Grooming practices.

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## Jayanta

duhastmish said:


> I think someone molested your little arse. You got rash apply a cotton swab soked in oil.
> 
> get back to your hole.



Nawabi shaukh wale chachu is to be blamed for his behaviour.

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## Omega007

Windjammer said:


> I wasn't complaining, neither is the need, just pointing out the behaviour of some Indians who are acting like a kid in a candy shop......as i said continue with discussion.....enjoy your moment.



All right then,I'll delete my earlier comments.Please try not to be so much abusive while talking to the Indians or any other nationality.Thank you.


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## Jayanta

duhastmish said:


> I think someone molested your little arse. You got rash apply a cotton swab soked in oil.
> 
> get back to your hole.



Nawabi shaukh wale chchu is to be blamed for his behaviour.


Narbanko Gujrati said:


> yaar he has a lot of wind jammed and it is causingtrouble so he is just trying to let losse some wind .......



Bu ha ha ha ha ha both diagnosis are correct.


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## Danish saleem

I m pakistani, and wishing India best of luck!

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## kaykay

Danish saleem said:


> I m pakistani, and wishing India best of luck!


Thank you mate!!!

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## Windjammer

Jayanta said:


> Hey windpasser...isn't it the forum rule not to use abusives. Lets see if the mods have balls to ban you.


Did you miss what i was replying to . 
And you still have the mind to tell others about abusive language but then what can one expect from a wanna be.


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## Omega007

Narbanko Gujrati said:


> yaar he has a lot of wind jammed and it is causingtrouble so he is just trying to let losse some wind .......



Well,he,for some particular reason doesn't like us Indians too much.I guess we have to live with that for now,what can we do??


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## Danish saleem

kaykay said:


> Thank you mate!!!



Kindly God give us the wisdom that we both countries invest in human Development more, instead of Weapons Development.

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## Jayanta

Windjammer said:


> Did you miss what i was replying to .
> And you still have the mind to tell others about abusive language but then what can one expect from a *wanna be.*



My bad....he called you by your dad's name. Sorry mate. I was sincerely going to apologize...until I read the last few words.


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## Ammyy

syedali73 said:


> Great! so now one-liner protests (for which GHQ is the place) will also score positive ratings. Positive ratings were never that cheap previously. I have always maintained that Indians are first Indians and anything else (if something is left) after that. Awarding them TT status together with powers of giving rating was never a good idea. Instead of countering @Munir, @SpArK balanced the post by giving a positive rating. The PDF is becoming an interesting place day after day, thanks largely to Indian trolls.



I can show you hundreds of example where positive rating given for even starting a thread or for one liner. Just visit Pakistani section you will find the answer.

Rating system already lost its credibility, I got 6 negative rating because I questioned credibility of a thread which used source as a *BLOG *and that includes mod. 

Do you really believe that post deserve a negative rating that was given by munir a totally biased decision.


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## Furqan Syed

Congratulations - Though I don't understand why are you guyz making these things when you know it never worked for the super powers to use cruise missiles in their recent wars. waste of effort and time and gives nothing but a false sense of power. You want to raise an objection, please provide examples from recent history of successful employment of such missiles in actual wars.


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## Windjammer

duhastmish said:


> I think someone molested your little arse. You got rash apply a cotton swab soked in oil.
> 
> get back to your hole. And bomb it
> 
> bhai you must not jam so much hot air. Its light and gets to your head . Release it


More like your dad was little close to you, telling you all these stories. 
We can understand your pain, but this is an open forum, no need to take out your frustration on others.


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## SanjeevaniButi

It is interesting to note that it carried a dummy weight of 350 Kgs. Why 350 Kg ?  

It travelled 1050 km in 1hr 10 mins that give it a speed of mach 0.74

Another important point is that it does not appear to have terrain avoidance so it it unlikely it will or can fly at tree top level. 

India successfully test-fires cruise missile ‘Nirbhay’ - The Hindu

Proving a host of technologies and bridging the critical gap in the country's arsenal, India's first long range subsonic cruise missile, Nirbhay, was successfully test fired from the Integrated Test Range at Chandipur, in Orissa, for a distance of about 1,000 km on Friday.

This was the second flight trial of the missile as the maiden test had to be aborted mid way in March last year when the missile deviated from its path. The 6m tall, low altitude flying missile which can evade detection by radars was fired from a mobile launcher at 10.05 am.

After blasting off like a rocket to a height of 100m, the booster got separated as the missile turned horizontal and the wings got deployed making it fly like an aircraft. At the same time, the Turbo Prop engine kicked off and provided thrust to the missile which began *cruising at 0.7 Mach at an altitude of 4.8 km.*

The tree-top flying missile, which can carry conventional and nuclear war heads then made a series of manoeuvres and *navigated `5 way points during a flight lasting one hour and 10 minutes*. Carrying a *dummy payload of n350 kg*, the4 missile also demonstrated the critical ability to zero in on its target by diving towards a pre-designated impact point in the Bay of Bengal.

*'Great moment'*

The block holes at Chandipur erupted with celebrations and clapping by scientists after the success of the mission. Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister and DRDO director General Avinash Chander described it as a great moment and said Nirbhay performed better than expected.

He said it *perfectly followed the path upto 15 way points* and reached the required range in four digits. He said four versions of Nirbhay - land, ship, air and submarine - would be developed and the first land attack cruise missile would be delivered in three years.

The missile was developed by the DRDO's aeronautical development establishment, Bangalore, and the *avionics was provided by the Research Centre Imarat, Hyderabad*. The DRDL has also contributed to the development of the missile.

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## Jayanta

Windjammer said:


> More like your dad was little close to you, telling you all these stories.
> We can understand your pain, but this is an open forum, no need to take out your frustration on others.



Stop explaining your childhood traumas with others. Get well soon

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## GURU DUTT

well i dont get it how come some pakistanies are saying that nibhay is a tomahawk rppoff when there own "so called strategik analysts" have on national TV/media themselfs have boasted that babur cruise missile was developed after they studied/reverse ingineared a tomahawk that had failed dropped in some remote north westren area ?


----------



## SrNair

Munir said:


> I have seen tons of ridiculous claims on this forum. But I do not think these are called trolls. BTW, I have been around for decades and I say it is a copy of Tomahawk design. Does that make me a troll or do I have the right of an opinion and it is probably a copy... Let us be fair. Nothing the Indians planned worled. Now USA wants India to be counter of China. Suddenly you have a working Tomahawk copy? That is not trolling my friend. That is an opinion. And if you ask me that is more realistic knowing Indian background.




So mean USA sold us the tech of Tomohawk?
Man that is one hell of joke.  .
Whatever the reasonsUS wont sell their tech even to its closest friend like UK.Period.Then you can an independent nation like India.
About this project.You are right we are much late in this project .Because R&D effort might be that much.But then again we had a partial success in its first test and we also acknowledged that.
According to latest report it travelled around 1100km.
This is just a second trial version.Now we can imagine its capability once it is operational.


----------



## GURU DUTT

SanjeevaniButi said:


> It is interesting to note that it carried a dummy weight of 350 Kgs. Why 350 Kg ?
> 
> It travelled 1050 km in 1hr 10 mins that give it a speed of mach 0.74
> 
> Another important point is that it does not appear to have terrain avoidance so it it unlikely it will or can fly at tree top level.
> 
> India successfully test-fires cruise missile ‘Nirbhay’ - The Hindu
> 
> Proving a host of technologies and bridging the critical gap in the country's arsenal, India's first long range subsonic cruise missile, Nirbhay, was successfully test fired from the Integrated Test Range at Chandipur, in Orissa, for a distance of about 1,000 km on Friday.
> 
> This was the second flight trial of the missile as the maiden test had to be aborted mid way in March last year when the missile deviated from its path. The 6m tall, low altitude flying missile which can evade detection by radars was fired from a mobile launcher at 10.05 am.
> 
> After blasting off like a rocket to a height of 100m, the booster got separated as the missile turned horizontal and the wings got deployed making it fly like an aircraft. At the same time, the Turbo Prop engine kicked off and provided thrust to the missile which began *cruising at 0.7 Mach at an altitude of 4.8 km.*
> 
> The tree-top flying missile, which can carry conventional and nuclear war heads then made a series of manoeuvres and *navigated `5 way points during a flight lasting one hour and 10 minutes*. Carrying a *dummy payload of n350 kg*, the4 missile also demonstrated the critical ability to zero in on its target by diving towards a pre-designated impact point in the Bay of Bengal.
> 
> *'Great moment'*
> 
> The block holes at Chandipur erupted with celebrations and clapping by scientists after the success of the mission. Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister and DRDO director General Avinash Chander described it as a great moment and said Nirbhay performed better than expected.
> 
> He said it *perfectly followed the path upto 15 way points* and reached the required range in four digits. He said four versions of Nirbhay - land, ship, air and submarine - would be developed and the first land attack cruise missile would be delivered in three years.
> 
> The missile was developed by the DRDO's aeronautical development establishment, Bangalore, and the *avionics was provided by the Research Centre Imarat, Hyderabad*. The DRDL has also contributed to the development of the missile.


so in short the test is sucsessful but deployment is another 3 years waya and if before then pakistan attacks india with its devine babur & raad cruise missiles what's gonna happen to short dark evil chankya idiologists baniya like me


----------



## halupridol

haters,,,,,cry,,,cry,,,cry,,muhahahahahahahhahah

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## The_Sidewinder

Omega007 said:


> What language is it bro??



Top secret. A classified language. Lol

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## kaykay

DRDO Chief Avinash Chander confirmed that Nirbhay covered a range in 4 digits( 1000 km+).


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## duhastmish

Windjammer said:


> More like your dad was little close to you, telling you all these stories.
> We can understand your pain, but this is an open forum, no need to take out your frustration on others.


Tells us where you come from. Lump of shyt.
. You re not worth it. FARTJAM.


-''''

The range is much better than expected but its going to be around 1500 kms by the time its handed over.

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## Alfa-Fighter

*PAK is burring like hell... Can you any of so called senior member can prove with credible links :- *

A) different between Babur and US Tomahawk ?
B) Similarity between Indian Nirbhay and Tomahawk ?


If not please keep your fantasies story to yourself then and don't troll.....including sr members...


----------



## IND151

Very very very very very good news!!!!!!



Kinetic said:


> Babur is a chinese missile not copy of.tomahawk... pakisyan technical capability does.not allow to develop a cruise missile. who do u think developed the engine and guidance... there is no private industry to support it either.... be practical...
> 
> 
> *see how usa... russia... france developed the missiles... we know which company developed what... but in pakistan everything suddenly comes from NASSCOM.... is it bogger than Raytheon?? Raython cant build all parts of tomahawk *



Actually its copy of Tomahawk, the Pakistanis got their hands on the Tomahawk whcih was fired against Taliban and landed in Pakistan.


----------



## Skillrex

The_Sidewinder said:


> Besi kamur nidiba, pakistaani bondhu hokol a beya paba. Khng ot ban kori dibo laajot mukh dhakibo nuwari.
> Congratulation to you too buddy


theek se gali di lua.. kunu ghanta buji pua nai..


----------



## Kinetic

farhan_9909 said:


> We will never reveal the true range of our Babur
> 
> we might end up targeting a indian city 1500km away from Pakistan and blame it on someone else




See mt prev post and pakistans r&d capabiloties and its private industries.... and see those of other countries.


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## manojb

There r 2 ways to test missile.
1. Test fire missile and if it's successful announce to media. If it fails just keep quite . 
2. Announce to media months in advance about test. Fire it. If successful great. Else own up and move on.

Congrats DRDO!!

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## Kinetic

IND151 said:


> Very very very very very good news!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Actually its copy of Tomahawk, the Pakistanis got their hands on the Tomahawk whcih was fired against Taliban and landed in Pakistan.




Pakistan dowsnt have industrial base to copy tomahawk.


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## bloo

_*Nirbhay video*_

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## IND151

HariPrasad said:


> It is a subsonic missile. Speed is 800 to 1000 KMPH.



Speed is 0.67 mach.


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## Kinetic

manojb said:


> There r 2 ways to test missile.
> 1. Test fire missile and if it's successful announce to media. If it fails just keep quite .
> 2. Announce to media months in advance about test. Fire it. If successful great. Else own up and move on.
> 
> Congrats DRDO!!




There is a third way.... u have nothing... u dont have gud r&d and suddenly bting a missile out of hanger test it successfully... anounce it is ready rite after firt test...

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## The_Sidewinder

@duhastmish @Windjammer @Omega007 @Jayanta
fellas, you are degrading the thread knowing & unknowingly. Result will only be a few banned members & lots of deleted posts. Sometimes ignorance is better part of intelligence.
Please refrain from replying to each other.
Thank you.

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## The_Sidewinder

Skillrex said:


> theek se gali di lua.. kunu ghanta buji pua nai..



I know mate, but I tend to regard myself as a responsible member. So i would refrain myself. Moreover, buji nupuwake gali diyat kunu birotto nai. But thats me, it depends upon you. Enjoy.


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## Immanuel

Actual almost all subsonic long range cruise missiles have similar designs, atleast the Nirbhay has an orgininal intake design. Babur has been out specd on this one. The Nirbhay travels farther out, it hit 1050 KM after adding 4 more waypoints mid flight and loitering ability has been fully demonstrated. Also the missile had fuel left. As DRDO chief said missile has a range of 1500km so Nirbhay is quite clearly superior to the Babur. Also it will eventually be able to deploy upto 24 different types of warheads, HE/Pre-Fragmentation/ Thermobaric/ Bunker Busting/ Nuke/ Incendiary/ Bomblets/ Cluster/ Blast Cum Earth Shock among many others, it will also be sub, air and ship launched.

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## The_Sidewinder

Narbanko Gujrati said:


> jammer is from pakistan will never be banned



Not every moderator here are biased mate. There are many of them who will ban any1 regardless of nationality.
But as an Indian, best thing to do is refrain from replying trolls, coz replying to troll itself equivalent to adding fuel to trolling.


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## SrNair

Zarvan said:


> Babur has 700 KM and same is being reported for Nirbhay



Around 1100 km being reported for Nirbhay.


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## GURU DUTT

Immanuel said:


> Actual almost all subsonic long range cruise missiles have similar designs, atleast the Nirbhay has an orgininal intake design. Babur has been out specd on this one. The Nirbhay travels farther out, it hit 1050 KM after adding 4 more waypoints mid flight and loitering ability has been fully demonstrated. Also the missile had fuel left. As DRDO chief said missile has a range of 1500km so Nirbhay is quite clearly superior to the Babur. Also it will eventually be able to deploy upto 24 different types of warheads, HE/Pre-Fragmentation/ Thermobaric/ Bunker Busting/ Nuke/ Incendiary/ Bomblets/ Cluster/ Blast Cum Earth Shock among many others, it will also be sub, air and ship launched.


but babur & raad are deployed and nirbhay just took its first flight

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## kaykay

1050 km in 70 mins.


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## IND151



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## kṣamā

bloo said:


> *Nirbhay video*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=651462024951126
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Darn it!! Cant see flash content on my mobile device !!


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## IND151

GURU DUTT said:


> but babur & raad are deployed and nirbhay just took its first flight



Ye chod do, phele bato janaji ka old avtar apne kyo choose kiya?


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## kṣamā

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 148 (Users: 37, Guests: 111)
That's called popularity !!


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## bloo

kṣamā said:


> Darn it!! Cant see flash content on my mobile device !!



Edited, found a youtube link.
Try now.


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## IND151

Capt.Popeye said:


> HeHeHehehe; you have just displayed your ignorance of not only PHYSICS but also of DRIVING.
> First of all Ms.Sanjevani; one does not lose speed on a turn while driving due to changing gears! One is going to lose speed on a turn, so one needs to change gears i.e. shift into a lower gear to regain momentum (and torque) and recover the lost velocity. A deficient driver shifts after (or into) the turn. The smarter driver shifts before the turn, by which he also gains/maintains traction. Simple PHYSICS.
> Just to enlighten you, just look at how F1 and other racing drivers take turns/bends......That will also explain why race-cars (and premium performance cars) have paddle-shifting for rapid-fire shifting.
> 
> Now about Aircraft: Pilots use a similar technique sans gears........to achieve the same effect. Again Simple PHYSICS! Its related to ENERGY and the "bleeding" thereof.
> Now find out what they do...........



Nice and simple........................

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## The_Sidewinder

kṣamā said:


> Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 148 (Users: 37, Guests: 111)
> That's called popularity !!



Darn it. Has been noticing it for a while. Never seen any other such active thread before. Even march orbiter didnt came close.

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## IND151

kṣamā said:


> Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 148 (Users: 37, Guests: 111)
> That's called popularity !!



The most watched indian missile thread was Agni 5, I dont think this thread will surpass the number of viewers enjoyed by that thread.

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## jaunty

kṣamā said:


> Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 148 (Users: 37, Guests: 111)
> That's called popularity !!



Whenever something important goes on in India, Webmaster wins a lottery.

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## Kinetic

Whats total viwership of pdf per day?


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## GURU DUTT

IND151 said:


> Ye chod do, phele bato janaji ka old avtar apne kyo choose kiya?


isharo ko agar samjho raaz ko raaz rehne do  .....


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## IND151

sathya said:


> As per our scientist., bad boy is GSLV MK3 ..
> Let s have the treat again very shortly..



Bad boy is GSLV not GSLV Mk III.

Mk III has not been launched for even single time, so how it can be termed bad boy?

Actually its totally new launcher.

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## Capt.Popeye

IND151 said:


> Nice and simple........................




Physics was always quite simple.

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## jaunty

The_Sidewinder said:


> Not every moderator here are biased mate. There are many of them who will ban any1 regardless of nationality.
> But as an Indian, best thing to do is refrain from replying trolls, coz replying to troll itself equivalent to adding fuel to trolling.



He is right. The dramaqueen has absolute immunity to troll.


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## IND151

Munir said:


> This is exact copy of a tomohawk. Let me remind you how Indians reacted when Pakistan tested a decade ago Babur... If one repeats that (and indeed this one looks a lot more then a tomahawk) it is suddenly a nationalistic blind person. Let me ask you, what is the difference? *And how come India is behind Pakistan?*



??????

Range of Babur is 700 KM and Range of Nirbhay is 1000 KM.


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## GURU DUTT

IND151 said:


> Ye chod do, phele bato janaji ka old avtar apne kyo choose kiya?


isharo ko agar samjho raaz ko raaz rehne do  ..... 


IND151 said:


> ??????
> 
> Range of Babur is 700 KM and Range of Nirbhay is 1000 KM.


wrong again sir ji Nirbhay's range in not 1000 KM but miles


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## IND151

Capt.Popeye said:


> WRT some posts here; while the Nirbhay is definitely nuclear-capable, it is not intended to be primarily nuke-tipped.
> There are some other warheads which are singularly effective, viz. FAE warheads. Earlier this year, I had an opportunity to see a demo; which was awesome sans any mushrooms. Its already been inducted into some of the Missile Forces. Then there are new-age explosives such as CL20 which have passed the proto stage.
> 
> @Tshering22; just for your info: up-ranging the Brahmos is a work in progress without any Russian involvement (for a number of reasons). In any case, do not lay too much store by the declared range.



Any hints about longer range version (2,000 KM)?

BTW PKS said in 2 years back that a smaller vesrion with 600 KM range and meant to be carried by jags and mirages is under works, true?


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## kṣamā

TejasMk3 said:


> Nirbhay Missile covered 14 way Point , 4 More then Planned : NDTV | idrw.org
> 
> Totally estimated range is 1100km.
> Longer range variant is planned, that will have atleast 2000 km. Missile expected to be handed over to the army in about 3 years, after a few more tests.
> 
> Newer super sonic cruise missile in the works, 2000 km and same speed as brahmos (3.2 mach)


Now if "4 more " waypoints where covered then only 10 Way points where planned. And when the controllers saw extra fuel they went for the extra 4 waypoints. That dose point towards that Nirbhay can take commands from the controllers and can have "Lock-On After Launch" and if it can report back it's vitals also it can report back a realtime video link which can be analysed to further optimize it's mission. And dose this also validate that we are using sat-com for the communication with it ?? 1050Km


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## IND151

TejasMk3 said:


> Nirbhay Missile covered 14 way Point , 4 More then Planned : NDTV | idrw.org
> 
> Totally estimated range is 1100km.
> Longer range variant is planned, that will have atleast 2000 km. Missile expected to be handed over to the army in about 3 years, after a few more tests.
> 
> Newer super sonic cruise missile in the works, 2000 km and same speed as brahmos (3.2 mach)



The journo has probably mixed up LRCM and Nirbhay 2.


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## SrNair

syedali73 said:


> Great! so now one-liner protests (for which GHQ is the place) will also score positive ratings. Positive ratings were never that cheap previously. I have always maintained that Indians are first Indians and anything else (if something is left) after that. Awarding them TT status together with powers of giving rating was never a good idea. Instead of countering @Munir, @SpArK balanced the post by giving a positive rating. The PDF is becoming an interesting place day after day, thanks largely to Indian trolls.




What was this much in his post for a negative rating?
We dont see any offensive in it.He just asked the owner of this PDF to maintain discipline.Thats all.

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## bholebaba

for gurus out there, does Pakistan manufacture *turbofan engine* for babur missile or is it imported from their all-weather friend china??

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## halfilhal

Munir said:


> Haha. Let me remind you your last test of this missile... A few seconds flight and they call it successful till it crashed in a few minutes. Here we are looking at a nation that is the largest in the world. Busy with 3d generation aircraft since the 90's. Not even able to produce a prop plane. It has all the input it can get from Israel, USA and Europe. And now you wannebee superpowaah. I smell Modi. A seller of chai now acting like God after massacre of Muslims in Gujarat. Enjoy it, After MKI crash you need something positive.



How come you need Burnol, suppository, and a pacifier all at the same time.

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## HariPrasad

IND151 said:


> Speed is 0.67 mach.



That amounts to the speed I quoted.824 KM Precisely.


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## SrNair

Munir said:


> Then what did India take so long to build one?



AFAIK Research And Development is one hell of the life time job.
We took lot of years for realising indigenous tech.


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## GURU DUTT

bholebaba said:


> for gurus out there, does Pakistan manufacture *turbofan engine* for babur missile or is it imported from their all-weather friend china??


cant say about china but pakistan dosent even makes a five cylinder in line diesel or petrol engine 

just forget pakistanies making something even close to "tourbhofan enigne"

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## SarthakGanguly

syedali73 said:


> I have always maintained that Indians are first Indians and anything else (if something is left) after that. Awarding them TT status together with powers of giving rating was never a good idea.


Brilliant!  I wonder why you did not get a positive rating for that. This begs the question - what has this post to do with Nirbhay missile(or the topic if you miss it). This should have been in the GHQ section as well, should it not?

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## HariPrasad

IND151 said:


> The journo has probably mixed up LRCM and Nirbhay 2.




No.

I have heard even longer range for Nirbhay. LRCM was supposed to be 600 KM + missile but when Brahmos was tested for 500 KM +, it started became clear that LRCM will be an even longer range missile. It is likely to be 1000 KM range missile with Mach 3.2 speed if some Bloggers is to be believed.


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## Lil Mathew

Windjammer said:


> Just imagine if there was no PDF, what would these Indians do......most probably they would write all on a piece of paper, tie it to a balloon and let it lose in the air....... even if PDF management started charging few pennies for each post,..... no Indian would even log on this forum. ..... but hey, we Pakistanis have a big heart, enjoy the moment and liberty......but try to leave your Indian manners where they belong and don't spit in the plate you eat from. !!!


PDF is a good business yaar.. It is full of Indian advertisements.. Now understand why Indians are allowed here..

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## Capt.Popeye

IND151 said:


> Any hints about longer range version (2,000 KM)?
> 
> BTW PKS said in 2 years back that a smaller vesrion with 600 KM range and meant to be carried by jags and mirages is under works, true?



Are you talking about Brahmos or Nirbhay?


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## bholebaba

GURU DUTT said:


> cant say about china but pakistan dosent even makes a five cylinder in line diesel or petrol engine
> 
> just forget pakistanies making something even close to "tourbhofan enigne"



thats what i thought.

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## Sugarcane

Although not a good news for Pakistan, but anyway congrats

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## bholebaba

Lil Mathew said:


> PDF is a good business yaar.. It is full of Indian advertisements.. Now understand why Indians are allowed here..



you are blessed with only 20% of post dear. 80% of users are banned (like me    ) everytime we try to reply anything sane. so its like trolling is allowed only by Pakistanis

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## HariPrasad

LoveIcon said:


> Although not a good news for Pakistan, but anyway congrats




Be liberal in giving congrats. I always give congrats to Pakistan for each of her missile test.


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## GURU DUTT

LoveIcon said:


> Although not a good news for Pakistan, but anyway congrats











salaam chichha kaise mizaaj hain hufoor ke


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## fsayed

Nirbhay Missile covered 14 way Point , 4 More then Planned : NDTV | idrw.org


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## Sugarcane

HariPrasad said:


> Be liberal in giving congrats. I always give congrats to Pakistan for each of her missile test.



Ab kia bhangra daalo ?

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## IND151

Capt.Popeye said:


> Are you talking about Brahmos or Nirbhay?



Nirbhay


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## Sugarcane

GURU DUTT said:


> salaam chichha kaise mizaaj hain hufoor ke



Tum abhi tak permanent ban nahi howay?


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## Capt.Popeye

IND151 said:


> Nirbhay



A longer ranged Nirbhay is a certainty, but not a shorter ranged one.


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## GURU DUTT

LoveIcon said:


> Tum abhi tak permanent ban nahi howay?


to goya aap hi ho wojisne mere permanent ban kiarzi lagaee thee mods baaji ko  


dost dost na raha yaar yaar na raha zindagi hame tera aitbar na raha


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## The_Sidewinder

jaunty said:


> He is right. The dramaqueen has absolute immunity to troll.



Well, then my bad.


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## SrNair

Windjammer said:


> Just imagine if there was no PDF, what would these Indians do......most probably they would write all on a piece of paper, tie it to a balloon and let it lose in the air....... even if PDF management started charging few pennies for each post,..... no Indian would even log on this forum. ..... but hey, we Pakistanis have a big heart, enjoy the moment and liberty......but try to leave your Indian manners where they belong and don't spit in the plate you eat from. !!!




Seems too much pain.
But for us this is a moment for enjoy


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## IND151

HariPrasad said:


> No.
> 
> I have heard even longer range for Nirbhay. LRCM was supposed to be 600 KM + missile *but when Brahmos was tested for 500 KM *+, it started became clear that LRCM will be an even longer range missile. It is likely to be 1000 KM range missile with Mach 3.2 speed if some Bloggers is to be believed.



When?????????????????????????????????



Capt.Popeye said:


> A longer ranged Nirbhay is a certainty, but not a shorter ranged one.







India successfully tests Nirbhay cruise missile | Page 34


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## fsayed




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## nik22

Omega007 said:


> All right then,I'll delete my earlier comments.Please try not to be so much abusive while talking to the Indians or any other nationality.Thank you.


So polite. I am surprised

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## Sugarcane

GURU DUTT said:


> to goya aap hi ho wojisne mere permanent ban kiarzi lagaee thee mods baaji ko
> 
> 
> dost dost na raha yaar yaar na raha zindagi hame tera aitbar na raha



Main ne arzi lagaee hoti tu tum ab post na kar rahe hotay


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## HariPrasad

Missile loitered around the target before hitting it.

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## Lil Mathew

Capt.Popeye said:


> A longer ranged Nirbhay is a certainty, but not a shorter ranged one.


He is right.. There was a news of a smaller, conventional warhead-armed air-launched variant of Nirbhay which will be qualified for launch from combat aircraft like the Su-30MKI,Jaguar IS and Rafale M-MRCA.


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## Sugarcane

In the video posted here, reporting is claiming that missile will fly at 10-12 km alt. Is it normal for cruise missile? If yes than why we call them terrain hugging? 10-12 km hell of distance for hugging.


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## The Great One

LoveIcon said:


> In the video posted here, reporting is claiming that missile will fly at 10-12 km alt. Is it normal for cruise missile? If yes than why we call them terrain hugging? 10-12 km hell of distance for hugging.


It's the first (successful) test. Chill. Not all parameters and capabilities need to be tested right away.

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## kaykay

HariPrasad said:


> Missile loitered around the target before hitting it.


Whoa!!


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## A.Rafay

Congrats to India!

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## Capt.Popeye

Lil Mathew said:


> He is right.. There was a news of a smaller, conventional warhead-armed air-launched variant of Nirbhay which will be qualified for launch from combat aircraft like the Su-30MKI,Jaguar IS and Rafale M-MRCA.



Was that an official statement........PKS is no official. The longer-ranged version is in the plans.


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## GURU DUTT

LoveIcon said:


> Main ne arzi lagaee hoti tu tum ab post na kar rahe hotay


challo ji maan lete hain  apki baat


----------



## IND151

LoveIcon said:


> In the video posted here, reporting is claiming that missile will fly at 10-12 km alt. Is it normal for cruise missile? If yes than why we call them terrain hugging? 10-12 km hell of distance for hugging.



KM is typo, they meant meters.


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## kaykay

LoveIcon said:


> In the video posted here, reporting is claiming that missile will fly at 10-12 km alt. Is it normal for cruise missile? If yes than why we call them terrain hugging? 10-12 km hell of distance for hugging.


I guess cruise missiles can change altitude from few kilometers to few meters as per need.


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## Lil Mathew

Capt.Popeye said:


> Was that an official statement........PKS is no official. The longer-ranged version is in the plans.


From a last year news source..
First Nirbhay Cruise Missile Test Fails | Defense Update:
A test flight of India’s Nirbhay cruise missile failed today. “The missile blasted off from a mobile launcher positioned in the launch pad — 3 of the ITR missile test range at Chandipur, Odisha. at about 11:54 a.m.” DRDO announcement said. However, after a successful lift-off, about 17 minutes into the flight the missile had deviated from the planned flight path and the mission was terminated. Nevertheless, DRDO claims the missile “successfully” met the basic mission objectives and performed some of the manouveres satisfactorily before being terminated midway.

Under the planned test, Nirbhay (Fearless) will be required to complete a flight of 1,000 km, representing the weapon’s operational range. Originally, the test was scheduled for late 2012 but was delayed. Once development is completed Nirbhay will become part of India’s nuclear triad and an important complement in the country’s nuclear retaliatory capability, establishing viable ‘second strike’ through submarine-launched K-15 ballistic missiles and Nirbhay cruise missiles. A conventional armed variant will also improve the naval strike capability beyond the range of the current BrahMos.


The Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), a DRDO facility in Bangalore, has designed Nirbhay as a derivative of the Lakshya unmanned target drone. It is designed for deployment from land, air and sea. As a cruise missile, Nirbhay can fly autonomously or under remote control. The weapon is launched from road mobile launcher, using a booster for acceleration. After the booster separates, the turbo-jet engine kicks in, powering the missile for the cruises phase. Nirbhay will fly at an altitude of 500 – 1000 metres at a speed of 0.67 Mach. It is equipped with autopilot maintaining constant altitude from the ground, thus enabling the missile to avoid detection by flying ‘under the radar’. ADE is also referring to the missile as a ‘loitering weapon’, as it can fly around te target until instructed to attack. However, it has not been disclosed whether the missile is equipped with sensors to obtain images to provide the intelligence for such attack. Other attributes mentioned in the past were multiple warheads, although it is not clear if each weapon will have multiple attack capability or the family of weapons will offer a choice (for example, conventional, anti-ship or nuclear.)India plans to field two versions of Nirbhay – the nuclear armed cruise missile, to be carried by up to 20 specially modified Su-30MKI fighters. The booster-equipped naval version will deploy with the three Arihant class ballistic missile submarines (SSBN). Carry a warhead weighing 250 kg this variant will be capable of striking targets at a range of 1,200 km, utilizing a hybrid Ring Laser Gyro/Global Positioning Navigation (RLG/GPS). Cruising at a speed of 0.7 Mach and using terrain following navigation the missile is designed to maintain a 10 meters height above water or 30 meters above land.


*A conventionally armed variant carrying a warhead of 450kg, will have a range of 750km. It will deploy with Jaguar strike fighters and Rafale MMRCA and used for land and naval surface attack applications.* Using the same hybrid RLG/GPS navigation the missile will offer combined attack accuracy of about 20 meter CEP, which could be further improved using radar-based terminal-guidance. Most of the avionics used for the Nirbhay program are derivatives of avionic modules developed for the BrahMos missile.

Pakistan has already developed two versions of cruise missiles – the Raad and Babur, that has a range of 700 km. Pakistan developed its cruise missiles after recovering two US Tomahawk cruise missiles lost over its territory in the 1998.

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## Parul

35 Pages...: cheesy:

Congratulations to Everyone.

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## Capt.Popeye

Lil Mathew said:


> From a last year news source..
> First Nirbhay Cruise Missile Test Fails | Defense Update:
> A test flight of India’s Nirbhay cruise missile failed today. “The missile blasted off from a mobile launcher positioned in the launch pad — 3 of the ITR missile test range at Chandipur, Odisha. at about 11:54 a.m.” DRDO announcement said. However, after a successful lift-off, about 17 minutes into the flight the missile had deviated from the planned flight path and the mission was terminated. Nevertheless, DRDO claims the missile “successfully” met the basic mission objectives and performed some of the manouveres satisfactorily before being terminated midway.
> 
> Under the planned test, Nirbhay (Fearless) will be required to complete a flight of 1,000 km, representing the weapon’s operational range. Originally, the test was scheduled for late 2012 but was delayed. Once development is completed Nirbhay will become part of India’s nuclear triad and an important complement in the country’s nuclear retaliatory capability, establishing viable ‘second strike’ through submarine-launched K-15 ballistic missiles and Nirbhay cruise missiles. A conventional armed variant will also improve the naval strike capability beyond the range of the current BrahMos.
> 
> 
> The Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), a DRDO facility in Bangalore, has designed Nirbhay as a derivative of the Lakshya unmanned target drone. It is designed for deployment from land, air and sea. As a cruise missile, Nirbhay can fly autonomously or under remote control. The weapon is launched from road mobile launcher, using a booster for acceleration. After the booster separates, the turbo-jet engine kicks in, powering the missile for the cruises phase. Nirbhay will fly at an altitude of 500 – 1000 metres at a speed of 0.67 Mach. It is equipped with autopilot maintaining constant altitude from the ground, thus enabling the missile to avoid detection by flying ‘under the radar’. ADE is also referring to the missile as a ‘loitering weapon’, as it can fly around te target until instructed to attack. However, it has not been disclosed whether the missile is equipped with sensors to obtain images to provide the intelligence for such attack. Other attributes mentioned in the past were multiple warheads, although it is not clear if each weapon will have multiple attack capability or the family of weapons will offer a choice (for example, conventional, anti-ship or nuclear.)India plans to field two versions of Nirbhay – the nuclear armed cruise missile, to be carried by up to 20 specially modified Su-30MKI fighters. The booster-equipped naval version will deploy with the three Arihant class ballistic missile submarines (SSBN). Carry a warhead weighing 250 kg this variant will be capable of striking targets at a range of 1,200 km, utilizing a hybrid Ring Laser Gyro/Global Positioning Navigation (RLG/GPS). Cruising at a speed of 0.7 Mach and using terrain following navigation the missile is designed to maintain a 10 meters height above water or 30 meters above land.
> 
> 
> *A conventionally armed variant carrying a warhead of 450kg, will have a range of 750km. It will deploy with Jaguar strike fighters and Rafale MMRCA and used for land and naval surface attack applications.* Using the same hybrid RLG/GPS navigation the missile will offer combined attack accuracy of about 20 meter CEP, which could be further improved using radar-based terminal-guidance. Most of the avionics used for the Nirbhay program are derivatives of avionic modules developed for the BrahMos missile.
> 
> Pakistan has already developed two versions of cruise missiles – the Raad and Babur, that has a range of 700 km. Pakistan developed its cruise missiles after recovering two US Tomahawk cruise missiles lost over its territory in the 1998.




Nobody is working on that project yet; so its purely speculative.

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## HariPrasad

LoveIcon said:


> In the video posted here, reporting is claiming that missile will fly at 10-12 km alt. Is it normal for cruise missile? If yes than why we call them terrain hugging? 10-12 km hell of distance for hugging.




It is a band in which missile travels. Actual path depend on programming for particular missiln.


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## Omega007

nik22 said:


> So polite. I am surprised



Banna padta hai boss,to end the useless fight and keeping this nice thread from getting ruined.


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## Sugarcane

IND151 said:


> KM is typo, they meant meters.



Typo? It's video report.


----------



## The_Sidewinder

@levina
In case you missed the news sis

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## Mujraparty

> We have met the target we had set for ourselves," said Dr Avinash Chander, head of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). "The entire mission performed in copy book style," he said.
> 
> The surface-to-surface missile is fitted with a* turbojet engine* and is capable of flying at low altitudes to avoid detection. *It can even hover near the target, striking from any direction without being seen on radar.*
> 
> The missile is intended to cruise like an aircraft, helped by its small fins which allow great maneuvering; it can be launched from land, sea and air.



India Successfully Test-Fires Nuclear Capable Cruise Missile Nirbhay


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## trainer

yesterday ISRO satellite launch, today DRDO cruise missile and next big thing is again GSLV markIII(ISRO) within next 45 days... and the saga go on


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## TeesraIndiotHunter

Best of luck for doing what Pakistan did more than a decade ago!



Backward, inferior indians.

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## RKO

The_Sidewinder said:


> @levina
> In case you missed the news sis


sis??


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## Munir

HariPrasad said:


> No.
> 
> I have heard even longer range for Nirbhay. LRCM was supposed to be 600 KM + missile but when Brahmos was tested for 500 KM +, it started became clear that LRCM will be an even longer range missile. It is likely to be 1000 KM range missile with Mach 3.2 speed if some Bloggers is to be believed.





BALASORE (Odisha): India's indigenously developed nuclear capable sub-sonic cruise missile 'Nirbhay', which can strike targets more than 700 kms away, was today test-fired from a test range at Chandipur near here.

*READ ALSO: 7 years in making, cruise missile fails test*

"The missile was test-fired from a mobile launcher positioned at launch pad 3 of the Integrated Test Range at about 10.03 hours," said an official soon after the flight took off from the launch ground.


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## bloo



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## Contrarian

LoveIcon said:


> In the video posted here, reporting is claiming that missile will fly at 10-12 km alt. Is it normal for cruise missile? If yes than why we call them terrain hugging? 10-12 km hell of distance for hugging.


This was primarily for navigation. There will be more tests. The missile is only expected to be cleared for production after 3 years ie in 2017.

Though there are typos and wrong reports galore about Defense in the media.
Most private reports always quote PTI(official). PTI reported the range of the missile as 700 - *100kms*. That was a typo by PTI, it was supposed to be 700-1000kms. But all the private news outlets copied PTI and then it vent viral.

This test today itself was of *1050 kms.*

Similarly, ,they mess up meters and kms frequently. Defense reporting in both print and electronic media is still quite shabby.

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## The_Sidewinder

RKO said:


> sis??



Isn't Levina a she???

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## RKO

TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> Best of luck for doing what Pakistan did more than a decade ago!
> 
> 
> 
> Backward, inferior indians.


Good luck launching a satellite on your own in the next decade(Atleast)... what India did more than 4 decades ago!!!!
Best of luck!!! superior Pakistanis

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## Capt.Popeye

LoveIcon said:


> Typo? It's video report.



Then its not a 'Typo' but a 'Speako'.... 
'Cos all the reports are talking of tree-top height and NOE etc. etc. Have'nt seen any trees 12-15 KM high yet; have you?

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## RKO

The_Sidewinder said:


> Isn't Levina a she???


I dnt knw... i thought levina is a dude!!! damn!


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## The_Sidewinder

RKO said:


> I dnt knw... i thought levina is a dude!!! damn!



lol. Maybe Levina should clarify

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## nik22

HariPrasad said:


> Bharat Mata ki Jay. Vande Mataram.
> 
> Har Har Mahade. Jai mataji.


Mata Vaisho Devi Ji ki chadhai kar rahe ho kya


----------



## TeesraIndiotHunter

RKO said:


> Good luck launching a satellite on your own in the next decade(Atleast)... what India did more than 4 decades ago!!!!
> Best of luck!!! superior Pakistanis



Dumbo, why would we do that when we have better alternatives?

Even some of the super advance nations like Israel etc. doesn't regularly launch their own satellites. Not because they can't, it is just about economic feasibility.

Launching satellite has opportunity costs greater for smaller nations...hence they don't launch it.

Stop being such idiots, indians. Grow up.


----------



## Capt.Popeye

TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> Best of luck for doing what Pakistan did more than a decade ago!
> 
> 
> 
> Backward, inferior indians.



Wow another candidate for the rank of pdf analist, ehh @Munir?

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## Zarvan

India's Cruise Missile Nirbhay: 10 Must-Know Facts


Cruise missile, Nirbhay, was test-fired today from Chandipur in Odisha.
Indian defence scientists have developed a cruise missile - the Nirbhay - which was successfully test-fired today from Chandipur in Odisha. Its first test on March 12 last year had failed, with the missile being terminated after launch as it deviated from its flight trajectory.
Here are 10 must-know points about India's Nirbhay or ‘fearless missile’:
It is a sub-sonic cruise missile. It blasts off like a rocket, but then unlike a missile, it turns into an aircraft. Unlike other ballistic missiles like the Agni, Nirbhay has wings and pronounced tail fins. In early flight after launch, the rocket motor falls off and the small wings get deployed. 
At this point a gas turbine engine kicks in and it becomes like a full aircraft.The Nirbhay is very maneuverable and can fly at tree-top level making it difficult to detect on radar.Once near the target, it can even hover, striking at will from any direction. 
It can strike targets more than 700 km away carrying nuclear warheads, giving India the capability to strike deep into enemy territory.It gives India the capacity to launch different kinds of payloads at different ranges from various platforms at a very low cost. It can be launched from a mobile launcher. 
The missile has a fire-and-forget system that cannot be jammed.It is India's answer to America's Tomahawk and Pakistan's Babur missile. The US had deployed cruise missiles very effectively during the Gulf War. 
India has made ballistic missile and tactical missiles of different capacity, but is yet to master the making of a cruise missiles 
Indians your own channel admitting its basically answer to Babur and Tomahawk and the features it tell are exactly same in BABUR and range 700 KM @Munir @Horus


----------



## Kinetic

^^^Wait for DRDO press release than.


today it flown 1050 km

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## GURU DUTT

Zarvan said:


> India's Cruise Missile Nirbhay: 10 Must-Know Facts
> 
> 
> Cruise missile, Nirbhay, was test-fired today from Chandipur in Odisha.
> Indian defence scientists have developed a cruise missile - the Nirbhay - which was successfully test-fired today from Chandipur in Odisha. Its first test on March 12 last year had failed, with the missile being terminated after launch as it deviated from its flight trajectory.
> Here are 10 must-know points about India's Nirbhay or ‘fearless missile’:
> It is a sub-sonic cruise missile. It blasts off like a rocket, but then unlike a missile, it turns into an aircraft. Unlike other ballistic missiles like the Agni, Nirbhay has wings and pronounced tail fins. In early flight after launch, the rocket motor falls off and the small wings get deployed.
> At this point a gas turbine engine kicks in and it becomes like a full aircraft.The Nirbhay is very maneuverable and can fly at tree-top level making it difficult to detect on radar.Once near the target, it can even hover, striking at will from any direction.
> It can strike targets more than 700 km away carrying nuclear warheads, giving India the capability to strike deep into enemy territory.It gives India the capacity to launch different kinds of payloads at different ranges from various platforms at a very low cost. It can be launched from a mobile launcher.
> The missile has a fire-and-forget system that cannot be jammed.It is India's answer to America's Tomahawk and Pakistan's Babur missile. The US had deployed cruise missiles very effectively during the Gulf War.
> India has made ballistic missile and tactical missiles of different capacity, but is yet to master the making of a cruise missiles
> Indians your own channel admitting its basically answer to Babur and Tomahawk and the features it tell are exactly same in BABUR and range 700 KM @Munir @Horus


well sir we dont need nirbhay for pakistan for pakistan prahar/prathiba & bhramos are sufficient as all pakistani targets are 80-150 KM from indo pak border

secodlli since tomahawk nirbhay ais also a cruise missile 

so whats your point mait ?



TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> Best of luck for doing what Pakistan did more than a decade ago!
> 
> 
> 
> Backward, inferior indians.


dair aayet durust aayet


----------



## nik22

I kept going from last to page 14. But could not find the post @Ammyy got negative rating for.

Give me the link of that post. I want to go through 'abuse of TT(ping pong)' saga


----------



## kaykay

Zarvan said:


> India's Cruise Missile Nirbhay: 10 Must-Know Facts
> 
> 
> Cruise missile, Nirbhay, was test-fired today from Chandipur in Odisha.
> Indian defence scientists have developed a cruise missile - the Nirbhay - which was successfully test-fired today from Chandipur in Odisha. Its first test on March 12 last year had failed, with the missile being terminated after launch as it deviated from its flight trajectory.
> Here are 10 must-know points about India's Nirbhay or ‘fearless missile’:
> It is a sub-sonic cruise missile. It blasts off like a rocket, but then unlike a missile, it turns into an aircraft. Unlike other ballistic missiles like the Agni, Nirbhay has wings and pronounced tail fins. In early flight after launch, the rocket motor falls off and the small wings get deployed.
> At this point a gas turbine engine kicks in and it becomes like a full aircraft.The Nirbhay is very maneuverable and can fly at tree-top level making it difficult to detect on radar.Once near the target, it can even hover, striking at will from any direction.
> It can strike targets more than 700 km away carrying nuclear warheads, giving India the capability to strike deep into enemy territory.It gives India the capacity to launch different kinds of payloads at different ranges from various platforms at a very low cost. It can be launched from a mobile launcher.
> The missile has a fire-and-forget system that cannot be jammed.It is India's answer to America's Tomahawk and Pakistan's Babur missile. The US had deployed cruise missiles very effectively during the Gulf War.
> India has made ballistic missile and tactical missiles of different capacity, but is yet to master the making of a cruise missiles
> Indians your own channel admitting its basically answer to Babur and Tomahawk and the features it tell are exactly same in BABUR and range 700 KM @Munir @Horus


Our Channels are admitting that Its range is 'more than 700 km' which is true as 1050 km is more than 700 km.
DRDO chief himself confirmed that today it achieved 4 digit range( I.e 1000 km+) so do you think one need anymore source?

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## Levina

The_Sidewinder said:


> @levina
> In case you missed the news sis


Hey thanks!

I had completely forgotten about it 

Now I've some doubts ...
1) It has a fire and forget system which can't be jammed...so would it not be dangerous if we need to deviate the path/or change the target after firing??
2) I heard Nirbhay has the capabilities to strike the target from any direction once close to the target.But how? how does it calculate where exactly to strike?
3) it can fly at tree top level without getting detected...that's like going the MH 370 way!!! I would like to know what is the this tree top level distance we are talking about?? as in is it really 7-8 metres over the ground or above it??

I know I sound very dilettante with those questions but am just curious 



RKO said:


> I dnt knw... i thought levina is a dude!!! damn!


should that matter???


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## tatasteel

nik22 said:


> I kept going from last to page 14. But could not find the post @Ammyy got negative rating for.
> 
> Give me the link of that post. I want to go through 'abuse of TT(ping pong)' saga


It's on page 13
India successfully tests Nirbhay cruise missile | Page 13

Anyways congratulations to Drdo for successful launch of Nirbhay


----------



## TejasMk3

nik22 said:


> I kept going from last to page 14. But could not find the post @Ammyy got negative rating for.
> 
> Give me the link of that post. I want to go through 'abuse of TT(ping pong)' saga


That post was funny, There was many thanks from Indians, One negative rating, and a positive rating .... all for the same post

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## The_Sidewinder

levina said:


> Hey thanks!
> 
> I had completely forgotten about it
> 
> Now I've some doubts ...
> 1) It has a fire and forget system which can't be jammed...so would it not be dangerous if we need to deviate the path/or change the target after firing??
> 2) I heard Nirbhay has the capabilities to strike the target from any direction once close to the target.But how? how does it calculate where exactly to strike?
> 3) it can fly at tree top level without getting detected...that's like going the MH 370 way!!! I would like to know what is the this tree top level distance we are talking about?? as in is it really 7-8 metres over the ground or above it??
> 
> I know I sound very dilettante with those questions but am just curious



I dont think I am adjectly the write person to answer those questions. Maybe these Guys can help.
@SpArK @sancho @Abingdonboy @acetophenol @sandy_3126 @Water Car Engineer @KRAIT
Help her please. Any other members with technical know how are most welcome.

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## kṣamā

@Sam Manekshaw @bloo@SpArK @sancho @Abingdonboy @acetophenol @sandy136 @Water Car Engineer

Now if "4 more " waypoints where covered then only 10 Way points where planned. And when the controllers saw extra fuel they went for the extra 4 waypoints. That dose point towards that Nirbhay can take commands from the controllers and can have "Lock-On After Launch" and if it can report back it's vitals also it can report back a realtime video link which can be analysed to further optimize it's mission. And dose this also validate that we are using sat-com for the communication with it ?? 1050Km


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## kaykay

Guys here is the official statement about test from DRDO. Some highlighted points are:
1. Covered more than 1000 km.
2. Accuracy was better than 10 mtrs.
3. Nirbhay flight lasted for almost 1 hour and 10 mins.
Livefist: Official Images & Statement On Today's Nirbhay Missile Test

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## indiatester

I'm waiting for a report from the New Indian Express quoting unknown sources that the test has failed.
Indigenously Developed Cruise Missile 'Nirbhay' Test-fired -The New Indian Express
Damn... they only say that it was test fired.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Munir said:


> Haha. Let me remind you your last test of this missile... A few seconds flight and they call it successful till it crashed in a few minutes. Here we are looking at a nation that is the largest in the world. Busy with 3d generation aircraft since the 90's. Not even able to produce a prop plane. It has all the input it can get from Israel, USA and Europe. And now you wannebee superpowaah. I smell Modi. A seller of chai now acting like God after massacre of Muslims in Gujarat. Enjoy it, After MKI crash you need something positive.


@WebMaster @Oscar please tell me how this isn't trolling/flame baiting?

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## The_Sidewinder

BANG BANG said:


> @The_Sidewinder ..... Kela akou ahisu....utpaat korim.



Ye raam, block korilei maane. upai nai. Utpaat kora aaru. Matha beya kori diya.


----------



## Kloitra

Zarvan said:


> Indians your own channel admitting its basically answer to Babur and Tomahawk and the features it tell are exactly same in BABUR and range 700 KM @Munir @Horus



A cruise missile cannot be an answer to another cruise missile. And like most other cruise missiles, it starts off with a rocket and than continues on with a jet. Its range is said to be more than 700:



> When ready, the missile will be able to deliver nuclear warheads at ranges of up to 1,000 km.
> 
> Source: India successfully tests Nirbhay cruise missile



Now what is it that you want to imply?


----------



## Abingdonboy

kaykay said:


> On topic: Nirbhay and Brahmos will make a good combo.


Correction, a DEVASTATING, combo- especially when deployed on IN warships. That kind of firepower parked a few hundred KMs off your coast would make anyone think twice...



DANGER-ZONE said:


> Congrats Neighbors !
> You guys finally catch up after almost 10 years.


Oh really? When did Pakistan develop a cruise missile with loitering capability and a range in excess of 1000 km?

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## RKO

TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> Dumbo, why would we do that when we have better alternatives?
> 
> Even some of the super advance nations like Israel etc. doesn't regularly launch their own satellites. Not because they can't, it is just about economic feasibility.
> 
> Launching satellite has opportunity costs greater for smaller nations...hence they don't launch it.
> 
> Stop being such idiots, indians. Grow up.


plz enlightene me about other alternatives? ???


----------



## Abingdonboy

kaykay said:


> Yes bro. Success list is long. Most important ones are Agni-5 ICBM, Agni-4 MRBM, K-4 SLMB, Nirbhay cruise missile and PDV.


Arguably the Astra is equally important to all of the above.

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## Ammyy

nik22 said:


> I kept going from last to page 14. But could not find the post @Ammyy got negative rating for.
> 
> Give me the link of that post. I want to go through 'abuse of TT(ping pong)' saga



India successfully tests Nirbhay cruise missile | Page 13

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## Abingdonboy

Munir said:


> Tomahawk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian version


An example of convergent design, nothing more.

Next you'll be telling me all planes today are copies of the Wright brother's plane because they all have wings and control surfaces

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## Alfa-Fighter

TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> Dumbo, why would we do that when we have better alternatives?
> 
> Even some of the super advance nations like Israel etc. doesn't regularly launch their own satellites. Not because they can't, it is just about economic feasibility.
> 
> Launching satellite has opportunity costs greater for smaller nations...hence they don't launch it.
> 
> Stop being such idiots, indians. Grow up.


this requires knowledge and not paint job.... grow up...... come to 21st century smart missile.. which can hover and select its own target , and even if it is moving......which is beyond to your knowledge at present , because your knowledge limited to cylindrical shape and Not inside chips and programming, guidance.

Welcome to the age smart missiles / bombs . Welcome to 21st century weapons .......

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> please tell me how this isn't trolling/flame baiting?


Instead tag Indian TTAs and get them to give this guy's post a negative rating...and the post should go in a hide mode until reviewed by a mod.


> Haha. Let me remind you your last test of this missile... A few seconds flight and they call it successful till it crashed in a few minutes.* Here we are looking at a nation that is the largest in the world. Busy with 3d generation aircraft since the 90's. Not even able to produce a prop plane*. It has all the input it can get from Israel, USA and Europe. And now you wannebee superpowaah. I smell Modi. A seller of chai now acting like God after massacre of Muslims in Gujarat. Enjoy it, After MKI crash you need something positive.



@nair @scorpionx @SpArK @sancho @sandy_3126

your call guys...I don't think anybody should be allowed to troll in the "Indian defence" section atleast......especially not a TTA.
This guy sullied our nation!!


India successfully tests Nirbhay cruise missile | Page 18

post# 267

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## Novice09

TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> Best of luck for doing what Pakistan did more than a decade ago!
> 
> 
> 
> Backward, inferior indians.



Sorry... We did not got the aid from uncle Sam from long time... that is why we are soooo BACKWARD...

We are a decade behind because uncle SAM do not kill our citizens via drones... plus no drop off of ***** missile oooops sorry sorry... tomahawk missile during afgan war...

even I hate India for such backwardness

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## RKO

levina said:


> Hey thanks!
> 
> I had completely forgotten about it
> 
> Now I've some doubts ...
> 1) It has a fire and forget system which can't be jammed...so would it not be dangerous if we need to deviate the path/or change the target after firing??
> 2) I heard Nirbhay has the capabilities to strike the target from any direction once close to the target.But how? how does it calculate where exactly to strike?
> 3) it can fly at tree top level without getting detected...that's like going the MH 370 way!!! I would like to know what is the this tree top level distance we are talking about?? as in is it really 7-8 metres over the ground or above it??
> 
> I know I sound very dilettante with those questions but am just curious


nirbhay is more like a drone than a missile!! it sends real time information back to command center through a secured link, It can lotter,there by allowing the user to attack the target in any direction and it can fly as low as 10mtr!!


should that matter???[/quote]
No mam! Sorry!

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## Levina

@Abingdonboy 
could you give me the link to that TTA's post???


----------



## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> @Abingdonboy
> could you give me the link to that TTA's post???


India successfully tests Nirbhay cruise missile | Page 18

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## The_Sidewinder

levina said:


> Instead tag Indians TTAs and get them to give this guy's post a negative rating...and the post should go in a hide mode until reviewed by a mod.
> 
> 
> @nair @scorpionx @SpArK @sancho @sandy_3126
> 
> your call guys...I don't think anybody should be allowed to troll in the "Indian defence" section atleast......especially not a TTA.
> This guy sullied our nation!!



@Chak Bamu I know you are one moderator who is unbiased in judging such things. I rest my case to you.

I think think tank analyst should refrain from from trolling. But in recent times few of them has really gone of the hook.
Come on think tanks, be responsible & unbiased.

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## RKO

levina said:


> @Abingdonboy
> could you give me the link to that TTA's post???


check page 13 also!!! btw Pakistani trolls dont get banned... right??? besides he is a Thinking Tank!!


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## Abingdonboy

Munir said:


> Then what did India take so long to build one?


DRDO has been pretty busy with the Astra, Agni 4/5, PDV, SLBMs etc etc


----------



## Alfa-Fighter

The_Sidewinder said:


> @Chak Bamu I know you are one moderator who is unbiased in judging such things. I rest my case to you.
> 
> I think think tank analyst should refrain from from trolling. But in recent times few of them has really gone of the hook.
> Come on think tanks, be responsible & unbiased.


Well everyone is same when it comes to India Section Trolls........ no need beg .... just give them ....BURNOL , they need badly...

Even their Sr. are running out of their dream stories excuses ....... without any link/ support to their fancy dreams.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Furqan Syed said:


> The arms race will not end peacefully for sure... so what shall be the policy of peaceful residents ?


Don't worry about it mate, as much as the media may like to create this "arms race" narrative there is nothing of the kind- India has already won.

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## The Deterrent

Congratulations to India and DRDO for such a successful flight. It is really a great achievement, and judging by DRDO's present technological advancement and the characteristics of Nirbhay, it has left Babur a bit behind (though deployment status is another story).
Exactly which turbofan is being used aboard Nirbhay?

For those expecting the range extension of Nirbhay, there are 3 fundamental ways of range extensions for subsonic cruise missiles:
1. More efficient turbofan
2. Missile redesign to accommodate more fuel.
3. Increase length of the missile body.
Now, unless there is official confirmation, range is not likely to be increased. Reason being, the turbofan has already a quite good performance, and I doubt there will be a better one available anytime soon. Same is the case with internal design. And comparing with other renowned cruise missiles, the length is already optimum (however only as much as 0.5m of extension in length could give rise to considerably large range extension).



kṣamā said:


> Now if "4 more " waypoints where covered then only 10 Way points where planned. And when the controllers saw extra fuel they went for the extra 4 waypoints. That dose point towards that Nirbhay can take commands from the controllers and can have "Lock-On After Launch" and if it can report back it's vitals also it can report back a realtime video link which can be analysed to further optimize it's mission. And dose this also validate that we are using sat-com for the communication with it ?? 1050Km



Umm fuel consumption is already per-determined, so there is nothing like "when they saw extra fuel...". Most probably the extra waypoints were also planned, but only 10 were required by the test parameters.
Lock-on after Launch is not practical in this case as the required TERCOM maps have to be fed prior to launch for an accurate terrain hugging flight.
Real-time (not really, with a lag) video transmission back to monitoring station is a must for a cruise missile test.

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## Assault Rifle

To all the Pakistanis DRDO chief himself has confirmed that Nirbhay missile covered more than 1000km.

@Zarvan @Windjammer @teesraoindiothunter @balixd @DANGER-ZONE @Munir




> AvinashChander, Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister, Secretary Department of Defence R&D and DG DRDOspeaking after the completion of the mission, said *"the missile maintained an accuracy better than 10 meters throughout its path and covered a distance of more than 1000 km." *“The successful indigenous development of ‘Nirbhay’ cruise missile will fill a vital gap in the war fighting capabilities of our armed forces" he added.



Print Release

SOURCE: OFFICIAL DRDO PRESS RELEASE.

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## RKO

The_Sidewinder said:


> @Chak Bamu I know you are one moderator who is unbiased in judging such things. I rest my case to you.
> 
> I think think tank analyst should refrain from from trolling. But in recent times few of them has really gone of the hook.
> Come on think tanks, be responsible & unbiased.


im wondering.... why they give TTA tag to these people!!!

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## Capt.Popeye

levina said:


> Instead tag Indian TTAs and get them to give this guy's post a negative rating...and the post should go in a hide mode until reviewed by a mod.
> 
> 
> @nair @scorpionx @SpArK @sancho @sandy_3126
> 
> your call guys...I don't think anybody should be allowed to troll in the "Indian defence" section atleast......especially not a TTA.
> This guy sullied our nation!!
> 
> 
> India successfully tests Nirbhay cruise missile | Page 18
> 
> post# 267



Oh, Mlle. @levina ji. That _alleged_ TTA is just only an analist on pdf; where all these labels sometimes seem to have been _distributed liberally like toffees to keep a bunch of squabbling, squally and snotty kids pacified_.
I see no reason to give that person any more credence.
But this analist also has some _real_ comic value; I must concede. He came up with an incredible fairy-tale to explain why NATO in the hoary days of the Cold War code-named a particular Soviet war-plane "Farmer" on the JF-17 thread. I had a huge belly-laugh reading that, just as others like Gambit and Syed Ali Haider and other _really knowledgeable_ members did. Do read that too. Then you'll understand how meaningless some of the pdf "label-wallas" are.
I don't take such absurd fulminations seriously. Neither should you. It just makes pdf look more foolish.

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## The_Sidewinder

Alfa-Fighter said:


> Well everyone is same when it comes to India Section Trolls........ no need beg .... just give them ....BURNOL , they need badly...
> 
> Even their Sr. are running out of their dream stories excuses ....... without any link/ support to their fancy dreams.



I am not begging mate. I have been here in pdf for long enough to know who is who. I could have tagged other admins as well, but I didnt. 
I dont expect fair treatment, coz I know we wouldnt do the same if it was an indian site. I hate trolling, be it by indian or pakistani. Feeding a troll is as bigger crime as trolling yourself.

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## The_Sidewinder

RKO said:


> im wondering.... why they give TTA tag to these people!!!



coz it depends on the number of posts. I think 100 post is the criteria to become full member, 5000 to be senior member, 10000 to be elite member & so on. Thats why I never put too much emphasis on TTA, untill admins introduced the rating system.


----------



## Abingdonboy

The_Sidewinder said:


> coz it depends on the number of posts. I think 100 post is the criteria to become full member, 5000 to be senior member, 10000 to be elite member & so on. Thats why I never put too much emphasis on TTA, untill admins introduced the rating system.


Actually that's not true. TTAs are appointed and it has nothing to do with post count.

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## kaykay

The_Sidewinder said:


> coz it depends on the number of posts. I think 100 post is the criteria to become full member, 5000 to be senior member, 10000 to be elite member & so on. Thats why I never put too much emphasis on TTA, untill admins introduced the rating system.


TTAs are not appointed based on posts. and number of posts can be misleading as there are many pathetic trolls with more than even 10000 posts and elite title.


----------



## Capt.Popeye

Abingdonboy said:


> Actually that's not true. TTAs are appointed and it has nothing to do with post count.



Yes indeed. These appointments _aka_ 'labels' are bestowed upon a "chosen few". Like the Kings and Emperors anointed some with titles. In both cases; with rather motley results.

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## The_Sidewinder

Abingdonboy said:


> Actually that's not true. TTAs are appointed and it has nothing to do with post count.



Thanks for the correction. I thought the criteria was same as promotion of membership status.

@kaykay
Thanks to you too mate

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## jugad

The extra way points were added in flight, right?


----------



## kurup

The Deterrent said:


> Congratulations to India and DRDO for such a successful flight. It is really a great achievement, and judging by DRDO's present technological advancement and the characteristics of Nirbhay, it has left Babur a bit behind (though deployment status is another story).
> Exactly which turbofan is being used aboard Nirbhay?
> 
> For those expecting the range extension of Nirbhay, there are 3 fundamental ways of range extensions for subsonic cruise missiles:
> 1. More efficient turbofan
> 2. Missile redesign to accommodate more fuel.
> 3. Increase length of the missile body.
> Now, unless there is official confirmation, range is not likely to be increased. Reason being, the turbofan has already a quite good performance, and I doubt there will be a better one available anytime soon. Same is the case with internal design. And comparing with other renowned cruise missiles, the length is already optimum (however only as much as 0.5m of extension in length could give rise to considerably large range extension).
> 
> 
> 
> Umm fuel consumption is already per-determined, so there is nothing like "when they saw extra fuel...". Most probably the extra waypoints were also planned, but only 10 were required by the test parameters.
> Lock-on after Launch is not practical in this case as the required TERCOM maps have to be fed prior to launch for an accurate terrain hugging flight.
> Real-time (not really, with a lag) video transmission back to monitoring station is a must for a cruise missile test.



Good to see you here , I was waiting for you .....

An off-topic query ..... you can answer it in the relevant thread .

What is the standard condition set for the 700 km range of Babur ??

I mean Warhead weight , amount of fuel carried , total missile weight , mach number and altitude .

Any such data available .


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## MilSpec

Ammyy said:


> @WebMaster @Horus look at this troll so that it can not be convert into VS thread.


@Munir why the negative rating?

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## Capt.Popeye

sandy_3126 said:


> @Munir why the negative rating?




Wait for an answer.............if it comes. 
_Waiting for Godot._..............

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## sancho

@levina, @The_Sidewinder 

You did the right thing to report to the officials about the posts and there are already discussions going on about misuse of ratings in the appropriate threads. The rest is up to the Webbies and Mods to decide. So don't let yourself be provoked and move on with the discussions on the topic!

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## kaykay

Any news about its total warhead carrying capacity?


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## nair

sancho said:


> @levina, @The_Sidewinder
> 
> You did the right thing to report to the officials about the posts and there are already discussions going on about misuse of ratings in the appropriate threads. The rest is up to the Webbies and Mods to decide. So don't let yourself be provoked and move on with the discussions on the topic!



As @sancho rightly said get back to the discussion,

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## temp1994

Capt.Popeye said:


> To do what? To apply copious amounts of Burnol?




Why not?

Both Brahmos and Nirbhay are phallic in shape, and they could be use to satisfy incurable itch that some think tanks on this forum have.Burnol could be used as lubricant.

You know dual use system, right!

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## The Deterrent

kurup said:


> Good to see you here , I was waiting for you .....
> 
> An off-topic query ..... you can answer it in the relevant thread .
> 
> What is the standard condition set for the 700 km range of Babur ??
> 
> I mean Warhead weight , amount of fuel carried , total missile weight , mach number and altitude .
> 
> Any such data available .


Cheers mate. 

There is only one standard configuration as far as physical parameters are concerned.
Warhead weight is standard, period. Be it nuclear or conventional.
Same goes for fuel carried, since fuel is not expensive, neither saving it improves performance...plus it removes the headache of calculated pre-flight fueling.
Same is the case with speed, which is between Mach 0.6-0.7.
Altitude varies throughout the flight depending on the flight profile and terrain, but usually it is higher initially and drops for terrain hugging as the missile proceeds towards the terminal phase.

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## MilSpec

Munir said:


> This is exact copy of a tomohawk. Let me remind you how Indians reacted when Pakistan tested a decade ago Babur... If one repeats that (and indeed this one looks a lot more then a tomahawk) it is suddenly a nationalistic blind person. Let me ask you, what is the difference? And how come India is behind Pakistan?


Please tell us how is it the exact copy of "tomohawk".... as far Indian coming behind pakistan is considered, there are quite a few avenues, where we are not even in the race...

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## Kloitra

The Deterrent said:


> Cheers mate.
> 
> There is only one standard configuration as far as physical parameters are concerned.
> Warhead weight is standard, period. Be it nuclear or conventional.
> Same goes for fuel carried, since fuel is not expensive, neither saving it improves performance...plus it removes the headache of calculated pre-flight fueling.
> Same is the case with speed, which is between Mach 0.6-0.7.
> Altitude varies throughout the flight depending on the flight profile and terrain, but usually it is higher initially and drops for terrain hugging as it proceeds towards the terminal phase.



Is it not possible to trade fuel with warhead weight for a shorter flight?


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## MilSpec

Munir said:


> I am interested in how that is possible... how would one sustain energy? Otherwise it is needed to be huge. Why not saying lightspeed in 2017?



Air breathing turbofan with sustained terminal speed of mach 1 is possible. As far as the technological aspect of it is concerned it wouldn't be any different from a jet aircraft. For the sake of argument considered a Mig21 converted to a target drone, which can tranverse 2000 km's in single flight and enters supersonic terminal phase with a turbofan made in the early 50.
The low bypass ratios and, the increments in compression ratio have been achieved in last three decades which will let airframes do better. In my opinion it wouldn't be a cost effective delivery system, but the again as per mars refrences you brought in, cost effectiveness is a proven Indian forte...hope that helps

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## The Deterrent

Kloitra said:


> Is it not possible to trade fuel with warhead weight for a shorter flight?


Theoretically it is.

But practically speaking, the missile's internal design provides limited options. The fuel tank section is of a fixed volume, so more fuel simply can't be carried (much like why fighters carry drop-tanks, since they have limited internal capacity). Similarly warheads developed are also of standard specifications, set during design phase.
You simply cannot take out a few kilograms of HE and toss in more fuel.

For such trade-offs to materialize, entirely new variants have to be developed. Say, if India develops a 100kg nuclear device, an extended range variant of Nirbhay could be developed, provided the design allows for volume extension of fuel tank.

*EDIT:* Just realized you were talking about a "shorter ranged missile with more warhead weight", but the same thing applies here too. The warhead section's volume/length is also fixed.

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## Capt.Popeye

The Deterrent said:


> Congratulations to India and DRDO for such a successful flight. It is really a great achievement, and judging by DRDO's present technological advancement and the characteristics of Nirbhay, it has left Babur a bit behind (though deployment status is another story).
> Exactly which turbofan is being used aboard Nirbhay?
> 
> For those expecting the range extension of Nirbhay, there are 3 fundamental ways of range extensions for subsonic cruise missiles:
> 1. More efficient turbofan
> 2. Missile redesign to accommodate more fuel.
> 3. Increase length of the missile body.
> Now, unless there is official confirmation, range is not likely to be increased. Reason being, the turbofan has already a quite good performance, and I doubt there will be a better one available anytime soon. Same is the case with internal design. And comparing with other renowned cruise missiles, the length is already optimum (however only as much as 0.5m of extension in length could give rise to considerably large range extension).
> 
> 
> 
> Umm fuel consumption is already per-determined, so there is nothing like "when they saw extra fuel...". Most probably the extra waypoints were also planned, but only 10 were required by the test parameters.
> Lock-on after Launch is not practical in this case as the required TERCOM maps have to be fed prior to launch for an accurate terrain hugging flight.
> Real-time (not really, with a lag) video transmission back to monitoring station is a must for a cruise missile test.




Good to see you here @The Deterrent; after some bouts of monumentally meaningless verbiage that got dumped here.

Increase of Range is the next step; right now all the work is directed towards operationalising this version.
And as you correctly said; that next step will take place around the power-plant.

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## MilSpec

LoveIcon said:


> In the video posted here, reporting is claiming that missile will fly at 10-12 km alt. Is it normal for cruise missile? If yes than why we call them terrain hugging? 10-12 km hell of distance for hugging.


Terrain hugging charecteristics would be validated in subsequent testing. This test was to validate the propulsion and guidance imo

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## Kloitra

The Deterrent said:


> Theoretically it is.
> 
> But practically speaking, the missile's internal design provides limited options. The fuel tank section is of a fixed volume, so more fuel simply can't be carried (much like why fighters carry drop-tanks, since they have limited internal capacity). Similarly warheads developed are also of standard specifications, set during design phase.
> You simply cannot take out a few kilograms of HE and toss in more fuel.
> 
> For such trade-offs to materialize, entirely new variants have to be developed. Say, if India develops a 100kg nuclear device, an extended range variant of Nirbhay could be developed, provided the design allows for volume extension of fuel tank.



I meant the other way - increase payload for reduced fuel at the cost of range. But if warheads are of fixed design than it is a moot point. I was under impression that warheads would go through constant change, with type of explosives, requirements etc.


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## Contrarian

The Deterrent said:


> Congratulations to India and DRDO for such a successful flight. It is really a great achievement, and judging by DRDO's present technological advancement and the characteristics of Nirbhay, it has left Babur a bit behind (though deployment status is another story).
> Exactly which turbofan is being used aboard Nirbhay?
> 
> For those expecting the range extension of Nirbhay, there are 3 fundamental ways of range extensions for subsonic cruise missiles:
> 1. More efficient turbofan
> 2. Missile redesign to accommodate more fuel.
> 3. Increase length of the missile body.
> Now, unless there is official confirmation, range is not likely to be increased. Reason being, the turbofan has already a quite good performance, and I doubt there will be a better one available anytime soon. Same is the case with internal design. And comparing with other renowned cruise missiles, the length is already optimum (however only as much as 0.5m of extension in length could give rise to considerably large range extension).


IIRC the ideal range for a subsonic CM was 1500 kms. Nirbhay is only 1000kms.

There is a distinct possibility that the range is increased in next iteration. The missile is 3 years away from final acceptance and production. It can and will undergo changes.


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## MilSpec

Munir said:


> Then what did India take so long to build one?


Because of the issues with building the turbofan engine.

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## Omega007

sandy_3126 said:


> @Munir why the negative rating?



Even he wouldn't know,rest assured.That guy hardly thinks before doing anything,its simply beyond his capabilies!!

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## Munir

Omega007 said:


> Even he wouldn't know,rest assured.That guy hardly thinks before doing anything,its simply beyond his capabilies!!


 
Personal.


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## AsianLion

I want to see, whether this shurlee ka pattaka even works.

Where is the target hit video from a reliable source?


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## The Deterrent

Kloitra said:


> I meant the other way - increase payload for reduced fuel at the cost of range. But if warheads are of fixed design than it is a moot point. I was under impression that warheads would go through constant change, with type of explosives, requirements etc.



Yeah I realized it later and edited the post accordingly.
Yes the warhead section is of a fixed size. 

Also, the talk of 24 different warhead types is just paper-talk. Because such warheads aren't "swappable", you can't swap a nuclear warhead for a conventional one. For that, separate variants have to be developed (just like US did, separate nuclear/conventional/bomblet/anti-ship Tomahawk variants). So 24 different variants of Nirbhay? I don't think so.

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## Kloitra

AsianUnion said:


> I want to see, whether this shurlee ka pattaka even works.
> 
> Where is the target hit video from a reliable source?



Are you the same guy who wanted MoM selfie?

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## ares

AsianUnion said:


> I want to see, whether this shurlee ka pattaka even works.
> 
> Where is the target hit video from a reliable source?



Do you know if Babur works?
Can you give us a target hit video of Babur from a reliable source?

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## AsianLion

As far as Pakistani response is concerned.... Pakistan Developed its own Cruise Missile a decade ago in the shape of deadly Babur and RAAD Cruise Missiles....Indians are to far behind in this type of technology as of yet.


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## The Deterrent

Contrarian said:


> IIRC the ideal range for a subsonic CM was 1500 kms. Nirbhay is only 1000kms.
> 
> There is a distinct possibility that the range is increased in next iteration. The missile is 3 years away from final acceptance and production. It can and will undergo changes.



Yeah sure it is an ideal range, but that requires a very capable turbofan engine. Lets see what DRDO brings up next.



sandy_3126 said:


> Because of the issues with building the turbofan engine.


Details on the turbofan please?

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## kinsr

AsianUnion said:


> As far as Pakistani response is concerned.... Pakistan Developed its own Cruise Missile a decade ago in the shape of deadly Babur and RAAD Cruise Missiles....Indians are to far behind in this type of technology as of yet.



Sach Kaha bhai...

Ab yeh batao jawab mein NASR kab test kar rahe ho? Diwali ke pahele ya Diwali ke baad.?


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## ares

AsianUnion said:


> As far as Pakistani response is concerned.... Pakistan Developed its own Cruise Missile a decade ago in the shape of deadly Babur and RAAD Cruise Missiles....Indians are to far behind in this type of technology as of yet.



With similar dimensions, Nirbhay has already surpassed both Babur 1 & 2 .


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## Immanuel

AsianUnion said:


> As far as Pakistani response is concerned.... Pakistan Developed its own Cruise Missile a decade ago in the shape of deadly Babur and RAAD Cruise Missiles....Indians are to far behind in this type of technology as of yet.


 
India already has an anwser for the Babur/ Raad missile, akash will knock them out of the air.


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## Kloitra

The Deterrent said:


> Yeah I realized it later and edited the post accordingly.
> Yes the warhead section is of a fixed size.
> 
> Also, the talk of 24 different warhead types is just paper-talk. Because such warheads aren't "swappable", you can't swap a nuclear warhead for a conventional one. For that, separate variants have to be developed (just like US did, separate nuclear/conventional/bomblet/anti-ship Tomahawk variants). So 24 different variants of Nirbhay? I don't think so.



The size is fixed, but weight would not vary? For the same size different warhead types should have different weight. From what you are saying, a missile can only have fixed warhead type. That would put a severe limit on what can be delivered.


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## Armstrong

The Deterrent said:


> Congratulations to India and DRDO for such a successful flight. It is really a great achievement, and judging by DRDO's present technological advancement and the characteristics of Nirbhay,* it has left Babur a bit behind* (though deployment status is another story).



Please expand on that a bit more !


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## The_Sidewinder

@sancho @nair
I dont have a thanks button, so tagging you to show my appreciation for your feedback.
@AsianUnion
but finally we have reached the milestone. Congratulate nahi karoge?

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## AsianLion

For one new baby Nirbhay Cruise Missile test - Pakistan has 3 types of Missiles to snub India, developed long time ago. Babur, RAAD, NASR Missiles puts India at a precarious position, it is desperately playing a catch up to advance Pakistan.


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## Munir

Munir said:


> Haha. Let me remind you your last test of this missile... A few seconds flight and they call it successful till it crashed in a few minutes. Here we are looking at a nation that is the largest in the world. Busy with 3d generation aircraft since the 90's. Not even able to produce a prop plane. It has all the input it can get from Israel, USA and Europe. And now you wannebee superpowaah. I smell Modi. A seller of chai now acting like God after massacre of Muslims in Gujarat. Enjoy it, After MKI crash you need something positive.



@sandy_3126 What exactly is wrong with the posting. As far as I know every piece of my post is reality. Let us give moderating team the look at it...

Your first missile test failed in minutes due to laser gyro malfunction and DRDO claimed success. You can read it on the web/LiveFist etc

You are the largest nation at the moment in population...

You are busy with prop trainer (IAF skipped it by ordering foreign), you're LCA is longest program even in mankind when we talk about basic light fighterjet. You do add every part from the rest of the world. US engine, Israeli radar. European avionics.

You want to be part of Superpower. Everything is linked to be part of or accepted as Superpower.. Even the Times had the title the next superpower India... Look at average Bollywood movie and it is all about India being so good... Read posts on the web and it is all about indiagenous sorry I meant indigenous.

Modi is part of Hindu nationalism and is part of the massacre of muslims in Gujarat. Don;t tell me that he was banned by the usa for decades because he served the best chai. He was indeed a chai seller in India...

Indeed you have MKI crash just day ago.

So my Indian think tank friend. NEgative rating is not an issue but there is nothing wrong in it. Surely lightly direct but still nothing wrong and less offensive then most posters from your nation write.

@WebMaster

I think it is plain stupid if you give me rating on nothing and then start a personal discussion with all the mods. Let me be simple. Your side is abusing this forum in almost every section I have read. Your sides keep thanking eachother for what? Smileys? I do not get into discussions about ethics if there is no sincerity and certainly not based on something real. My post is correct.

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## ares

AsianUnion said:


> For one new baby Nirbhay Cruise Missile test - Pakistan has 3 types of Missiles to snub India, developed long time ago. Babur, RAAD, NASR Missiles puts India at a precarious position, it is desperately playing a catch up to advance Pakistan.



Nirbhay, Brahmos, Prahar.


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## The Deterrent

Kloitra said:


> The size is fixed, but weight would not vary? For the same size different warhead types should have different weight. From what you are saying, a missile can only have fixed warhead type. That would put a severe limit on what can be delivered.



Yes they do have different weights. What I'm saying, that a specific variant would carry a specific warhead type only. For example, nuclear Nirbhays would be produced/operated separately from conventional ones. It won't be possible to open up a conventional Nirbhay in the field and swap in a nuclear warhead. Changing a warhead type affects triggering mechanisms and other stuff too, which is why a dedicated modified variant is needed for each type.

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## MilSpec

The Deterrent said:


> Details on the turbofan please?



Closely guarded, and I dont have any...

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## kaku1

AsianUnion said:


> As far as Pakistani response is concerned.... Pakistan Developed its own Cruise Missile a decade ago in the shape of deadly Babur and RAAD Cruise Missiles....Indians are to far behind in this type of technology as of yet.



When we talk about missile, you guys say we are ahead against Indian. When we talk about rocket science, you guys says we didnt tried out, but we are still ahead of Indians. When we talk about cruise missile, you say we did that a year ago, where it comes to nuke, you are still ahead.

Bro, can you give me one area where Indians are ahead.

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## The Deterrent

Armstrong said:


> Please expand on that a bit more !


Its simple, Nirbhay has better engine (turbofan vs turbojet on Babur), hence more range and better operational flexibility (loitering capability).

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## Nova2

Congrats Indian's on this achievment ,though it just sounds like a beginning 


AsianUnion said:


> For one new baby Nirbhay Cruise Missile test - Pakistan has 3 types of Missiles to snub India, developed long time ago. Babur, RAAD, NASR Missiles puts India at a precarious position, it is desperately playing a catch up to advance Pakistan.


@The_Sidewinder le kar diya usne ,khus hai na 
@AU's post thoko tali BC !


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## The Deterrent

sandy_3126 said:


> Closely guarded, and I dont have any...


But is it local or Russian made (being used for testing only)?



kinsr said:


> Sach Kaha bhai...
> 
> Ab yeh batao jawab mein NASR kab test kar rahe ho? Diwali ke pahele ya Diwali ke baad.?



_Nasr tou test ho gaya, jawab(ya jawabaat) Diwali k baad milay ga._

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## kinsr

The Deterrent said:


> Nasr tou test ho gaya, jawab(ya jawabaat) Diwali k baad milay ga.


ha ha ha... though it was not intended for you...


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## Sam Manekshaw

Munir said:


> Sir sir... What exactly is wrong with the posting. As far as I know every piece of my post is reality. Let us give moderating team the look at it...
> 
> Your first missile test failed in minutes due to laser gyro malfunction and DRDO claimed success. You can read it on the web/LiveFist etc
> 
> You are the largest nation at the moment in population...
> 
> You are busy with prop trainer (IAF skipped it by ordering foreign), you're LCA is longest program even in mankind when we talk about basic light fighterjet. You do add every part from the rest of the world. US engine, Israeli radar. European avionics.
> 
> You want to be part of Superpower. Everything is linked to be part of or accepted as Superpower.. Even the Times had the title the next superpower India... Look at average Bollywood movie and it is all about India being so good... Read posts on the web and it is all about indiagenous sorry I meant indigenous.
> 
> Modi is part of Hindu nationalism and is part of the massacre of muslims in Gujarat. Don;t tell me that he was banned by the usa for decades because he served the best chai. He was indeed a chai seller in India...
> 
> Indeed you have MKI crash just day ago.
> 
> So my Indian think tank friend. NEgative rating is not an issue but there is nothing wrong in it. Surely lightly direct but still nothing wrong and less offensive then most posters from your nation write.
> 
> @WebMaster


Kindly stop using irrelevant topic otherwise i got lot more to talk on

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## AsianLion

ares said:


> Nirbhay, Brahmos, Prahar.




I donot want to put you so down, but Nirbhay is a test, only Nirbhay was the one which u tested which is now dust. A test Nirbhay has no value for Pakistan.

Rest Brahmos technology which u got from Russian donations, is still needs to be updated regularly, may be it works...congrats....and lastly Prahar is a kidco, still needs to be under validation and failure.


As far as Pakistani 4 types - BABUR 1 & 2, RAAD and NASR missiles, they are all already MASS produced, advanced validated, under huge numbers and complete. Need I say more.


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## Kloitra

AsianUnion said:


> For one new baby Nirbhay Cruise Missile test - Pakistan has 3 types of Missiles to snub India, developed long time ago. Babur, RAAD, NASR Missiles puts India at a precarious position, it is desperately playing a catch up to advance Pakistan.



Pakistan had to develop and deploy cruise missiles, as there was a threat - which has now become reality - of a BMD system being deployed by India.
India had no such threat, the already deployed BMs and the Brahmos cruise missile were deemed sufficient for the purpose. That is why India focused on and improved those systems. BMs also cover longer range to account for China, thus serve Indian purpose better. There is no point playing catchup as there are better and more options available in Indian arsenal.


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## kaku1

AsianUnion said:


> I donot want to put you so down, but Nirbhay is a test, only Nirbhay was the one which u tested which is now dust. A test Nirbhay has no value for Pakistan.
> 
> Rest Brahmos technology which u got from Russian donations, is still needs to be updated regularly, may be it works...congrats....and lastly Prahar is a kidco, still needs to be under validation and failure.
> 
> 
> As far as Pakistani 4 types - BABUR 1 & 2, RAAD and NASR missiles, they are all already MASS produced, advanced validated, under huge numbers and complete. Need I say more.


Bro, Prahaar already is in mass production.

And one thing, Prahaar will be inducted in Artillery regiment not in SFC, like BrahMos.

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## Munir

Sam Manekshaw said:


> Kindly stop using irrelevant topic otherwise i got lot more to talk on



Do not act like a mod.


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## Green Angel

*Just wait for 3 days Notice Period for the Test of BABUR - 3 Missile with the range of 1500kms.*


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## The Deterrent

Narbanko Gujrati said:


> @sandy_3126
> @The Deterrent
> 
> i think the warheads will be swappable
> +
> for shorter range you just need to put in a heavier payload / warhead no need to decrease the fuel
> 
> if you look at all other indian missiles
> 
> the range is always quoted at the lower end and
> 
> the range v/s payload /warhead graph is always there
> 
> which means such a provision would already been made in Nirbhay



Nope. Nirbhay is a cruise missile, not a ballistic one. It simply doesn't works like that.
And range vs. payload graphs work for artillery shells, not for complex weapon systems with a load of other factors than payload affecting the ultimate range.

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## kaku1

The Deterrent said:


> Nope. Nirbhay is a cruise missile, not a ballistic one. It simply doesn't works like that.
> And range vs. payload graphs work for artillery shells, not for complex weapon systems with a load of other factors than payload affecting the ultimate range.



The main game changer is not land launched Nirbhay, but it would be VLS launced Nirbhay, that able to deploy on Project 15, 15A, 17, 17A.


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## ares

*


AsianUnion said:



I donot want to put you so down, but Nirbhay is a test, only Nirbhay was the one which u tested with is now dust. A test Nirbhay has no value for Pakistan.

Click to expand...

*


AsianUnion said:


> Rest Brahmos technology which u got from Russian donations, is still needs to be updated regularly, may be it works...and I lastly Prahar is still needs to be validated.
> 
> As far as am concerned BABUR 1 & 2, RAAD and NASR missiles, they are all already MASS produced, validated, under huge numbers and complete. So, need I say more.



*What nonsense are you writing?*

Russian donation, Chinese donation or North Korean missile - Nuclear swap deal...The fact is India has Bhramos and loads them..There are more than 2000 Bhramos available to Indian armed forces.

Prahaar is further along in deployment than NASR..as AAD of which Prahaar is SSM version has itself been tested more than half a dozen times in addition to Prahaar's tests..How many times has Nasr been tested?.. 3 ?
Already an export variant has been unveiled last year in Seoul. Not the least, that it outmatches Nasr in all aspects.

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## Kloitra

Munir said:


> @sandy_3126 What exactly is wrong with the posting. As far as I know every piece of my post is reality. Let us give moderating team the look at it...
> 
> Your first missile test failed in minutes due to laser gyro malfunction and DRDO claimed success. You can read it on the web/LiveFist etc
> 
> You are the largest nation at the moment in population...
> 
> You are busy with prop trainer (IAF skipped it by ordering foreign), you're LCA is longest program even in mankind when we talk about basic light fighterjet. You do add every part from the rest of the world. US engine, Israeli radar. European avionics.
> 
> You want to be part of Superpower. Everything is linked to be part of or accepted as Superpower.. Even the Times had the title the next superpower India... Look at average Bollywood movie and it is all about India being so good... Read posts on the web and it is all about indiagenous sorry I meant indigenous.
> 
> Modi is part of Hindu nationalism and is part of the massacre of muslims in Gujarat. Don;t tell me that he was banned by the usa for decades because he served the best chai. He was indeed a chai seller in India...
> 
> Indeed you have MKI crash just day ago.
> 
> So my Indian think tank friend. NEgative rating is not an issue but there is nothing wrong in it. Surely lightly direct but still nothing wrong and less offensive then most posters from your nation write.
> 
> @WebMaster
> 
> I think it is plain stupid if you give me rating on nothing and then start a personal discussion with all the mods. Let me be simple. Your side is abusing this forum in almost every section I have read. Your sides keep thanking eachother for what? Smileys? I do not get into discussions about ethics if there is no sincerity and certainly not based on something real. My post is correct.



Let's argue what's wrong with your post - apart from it being offtopic:



Munir said:


> Haha. Let me remind you your last test of this missile... A few seconds flight and they call it successful till it crashed in a few minutes.


Only part remotely on topic.


> Here we are looking at a nation that is the largest in the world.


Offtopic and false: 2nd biggest.



> Busy with 3d generation aircraft since the 90's.


Off topic and false: 4rth gen.



> Not even able to produce a prop plane


Offtopic



> It has all the input it can get from Israel, USA and Europe


False: no input from any country regarding subsonic cruise missile or the real problem - turbofan.



> And now you wannebee superpowaah.


Offtopic



> I smell Modi. A seller of chai now acting like God after massacre of Muslims in Gujarat


Offtopic, accusations without proof and personal ranting coming after giving someone negative rating for the same.

All of this to explain how Nirbhay is a copy of tomahawk:


> . *Let us be fair. Nothing the Indians planned worled. Now USA wants India to be counter of China. Suddenly you have a working Tomahawk copy? That is not trolling my friend. That is an opinion. And if you ask me that is more realistic knowing Indian background.*
> 
> Source: India successfully tests Nirbhay cruise missile | Page 18


Your post barely touched the topic, and didn't explain how USA helped India or how Nirbhay resembles Tomahawk.

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## a.kumar

Babur 1 barely touched 500 km that too being a subsonic Cruise missiles , while BrahMos being supersonic missile officially can hit targets till 290km , Many times DRDO has mentioned it to be 500 km range one . Babur-2 hardly covers 700 km just 200km more , not a big improvement , While Nirbhay hit target at 1050km in its second test shows it can hit target over 1300-1500 with little changes to its internals .


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## Kloitra

a.kumar said:


> Babur 1 barely touched 500 km that too being a subsonic Cruise missiles , while BrahMos being supersonic missile officially can hit targets till 290km , Many times DRDO has mentioned it to be 500 km range one . Babur-2 hardly covers 700 km just 200km more , not a big improvement , While Nirbhay hit target at 1050km in its second test shows it can hit target over 1300-1500 with little changes to its internals .



Not little change. If current range is the limit, it would require major changes to improve it.


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## AsianLion

kaku1 said:


> Bro, Prahaar already is in mass production.
> 
> And one thing, Prahaar will be inducted in Artillery regiment not in SFC, like BrahMos.




Prahaar is a tactical BALLISTIC missile, go check DRDO, a Mobile battlefield missile support system, NOT a CRUISE Missile. It is a MBRL. Prahaar is still highly an unstable system, with very in accurate guidance system, and still hits target above 10 meters, which is sadly not good enough. Pragati is export variant of Prahaar Missile, which nobody is interested to buy ever from India. Prahaar as u rightly said, is still not deployed yet in mass regiments of Indian Artillery Army.


While am listing you Babur 1, Babur 2, NASR land based Cruise Missiles and RAAD, is Pakistan air launched Cruise Missile far ahead to anything Indians has.

All four types of Pakistani Cruise missiles, are in mass production, highly accurate, advanced electronic, and in full deployment, India has no match against it, except the Russia-indo Brahmos.

And as far as Ballistic Missile capability, Pakistan has a big, mighty answer for Ballisitc Missiles, where India cannot even play a catch up game.


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## Omega007

a.kumar said:


> Babur 1 barely touched 500 km that too being a subsonic Cruise missiles , while BrahMos being supersonic missile officially can hit targets till 290km , Many times DRDO has mentioned it to be 500 km range one . Babur-2 hardly covers 700 km just 200km more , not a big improvement , While Nirbhay hit target at 1050km in its second test shows it can hit target over 1300-1500 with little changes to its internals .



'Little changes' would not do it bro.In order to increase the range to say 1500 km,either the present turbofan has to be discarded completely in favor of a newer one with better SFC or the missile body has to be elongated to cater for extra fuel.


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## Kloitra

AsianUnion said:


> Prahaar is a tactical BALLISTIC missile, go check DRDO, a Mobile battlefield missile support system, NOT a CRUISE Missile. It is a MBRL. Prahaar is still highly an unstable system, with very in accurate guidance system, and still hits target above 10 meters, which is sadly not good enough. Pragati is export variant of Prahaar Missile, which nobody is interested to buy ever from India. Prahaar as u rightly said, is still not deployed yet in mass regiments of Indian Artillery Army.
> 
> 
> While am listing you Babur 1, Babur 2, NASR land based Cruise Missiles and RAAD, is Pakistan air launched Cruise Missile far ahead to anything Indians has.
> 
> All four types of Pakistani Cruise missiles, are in mass production, highly accurate, advanced electronic, and in full deployment, India has no match against it, except the Russia-indo Brahmos.
> 
> And as far as Ballistic Missile capability, Pakistan has a big, mighty answer for Ballisitc Missiles, where India cannot even play a catch up game.



What exactly Pakistan got which is so big and mighty that India can't catchup? Can you list the types and range available with both countries? Can you tell why are Indian BM not sufficient for Pakistan, and why Pakistan had to develop cruise?
How Prahar is unstable system? How NASR is a cruise missile? How accurate are Pakistani cruise missiles (CEP)?

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## SrNair

Missile was test fired in morning.But thread is still flying.

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## AsianLion

Kloitra said:


> What exactly Pakistan got which is so big and mighty that India can't catchup? Can you list the types and range available with both countries? Can you tell why are Indian BM not sufficient for Pakistan, and why Pakistan had to develop cruise?
> How Prahar is unstable system? How NASR is a cruise missile? How accurate are Pakistani cruise missiles (CEP)?



Here the proof Pakistani Missile capability far ahead to India:


















asiaticlion said:


> why are you bringing all the crappy missile Babur , Nasr or any ballistic missile, which you never tested?.
> All the missile either bought from North Korea or China
> you people will never understand the excitement and anticipation of missile testing and will never go such feeling.
> please take your crappy ****_hurt opinion some where else . no one cares about your opinion.



Never tested ???? North Korea and China Imported?


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## Omega007

AsianUnion said:


> Prahaar is a tactical BALLISTIC missile, go check DRDO, a Mobile battlefield missile support system, NOT a CRUISE Missile. It is a MBRL. Prahaar is still highly an unstable system, with very in accurate guidance system, and still hits target above 10 meters, which is sadly not good enough. Pragati is export variant of Prahaar Missile, which nobody is interested to buy ever from India. Prahaar as u rightly said, is still not deployed yet in mass regiments of Indian Artillery Army.
> 
> 
> While am listing you Babur 1, Babur 2, NASR land based Cruise Missiles and RAAD, is Pakistan air launched Cruise Missile far ahead to anything Indians has.
> 
> All four types of Pakistani Cruise missiles, are in mass production, highly accurate, advanced electronic, and in full deployment, India has no match against it, except the Russia-indo Brahmos.
> 
> And as far as Ballistic Missile capability, Pakistan has a big, mighty answer for Ballisitc Missiles, where India cannot even play a catch up game.



'Less than' 10 meter brother,we have our own way with words.Like previously the Nirbhay's range was reported to be more than 700 kilometers.And present CEP of Prahaar NLOS BSM is with RLG INS only,wait till our IRNSS comes online,then you get the glimpse of the true potential of Indian missiles.

And besides,your Nasr is in no way a cruise missile,it's a same system like Prahaar only with one third the range and payload!!

And coming to your Babur,congrats with that.You have it deployed only because you guys started like 15 years earlier than India and still it is fitted with an engine that is generations behind the one on board the Nirbhay prototype!!Says a lot about the military industrial complexes and R&D base of the respective countries.

And for Ballistic missiles,what you say was true like 8 years ago son,the reality has totally changed and India has already snatched the pace.The gap has widened beyond any catching up, you got that correct...............only it is in our favor.


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## Kinetic

AsianUnion said:


> Prahaar is a tactical BALLISTIC missile, go check DRDO, a Mobile battlefield missile support system, NOT a CRUISE Missile. It is a MBRL. Prahaar is still highly an unstable system, with very in accurate guidance system, and still hits target above 10 meters, which is sadly not good enough. Pragati is export variant of Prahaar Missile, which nobody is interested to buy ever from India. Prahaar as u rightly said, is still not deployed yet in mass regiments of Indian Artillery Army.
> 
> 
> While am listing you Babur 1, Babur 2, NASR land based Cruise Missiles and RAAD, is Pakistan air launched Cruise Missile far ahead to anything Indians has.
> 
> All four types of Pakistani Cruise missiles, are in mass production, highly accurate, advanced electronic, and in full deployment, India has no match against it, except the Russia-indo Brahmos.
> 
> And as far as Ballistic Missile capability, Pakistan has a big, mighty answer for Ballisitc Missiles, where India cannot even play a catch up game.


*WHAT KIND OF WEED ARE U SMOKING? *

You are comparing K-4, K-15, Agni-5, Agni-4 and Agni-3 with pakistani missiles!! go compare with trident-2 or bulava. 

Guys, ignore this fun, and move ahead.

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## Sam Manekshaw

Munir said:


> Do not act like a mod.


Then u better act like TTA

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## Kloitra

AsianUnion said:


> Here the proof Pakistani Missile capability far ahead to India:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never tested ???? North Korea and China Imported?



Instead of posting some youtube videos, post me numbers, facts and figures.


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## Bratva

RKO said:


> without a single navigation satellite... Pakistan claiming pinpoint accuracy for babur.... yeah anything possible for a divine country!!!



Are you nuts or what? Where did Pakistan claim pin point accuracy ?

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## Omega007

Kinetic said:


> *WHAT KIND OF WEED ARE U SMOKING? *
> 
> You are comparing K-4, K-15, Agni-5, Agni-4 and Agni-3 with pakistani missiles!! go compare with trident-2 or bulava.
> 
> Guys, ignore this fun, and move ahead.



Oh come on now,the fun just started and you are telling us to move on!!That's so mean of you.


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## Munir

Kloitra said:


> Let's argue what's wrong with your post - apart from it being offtopic:
> 
> 
> Only part remotely on topic.
> 
> Offtopic and false: 2nd biggest.
> 
> 
> Off topic and false: 4rth gen.
> 
> 
> Offtopic
> 
> 
> False: no input from any country regarding subsonic cruise missile or the real problem - turbofan.
> 
> 
> Offtopic
> 
> 
> Offtopic, accusations without proof and personal ranting coming after giving someone negative rating for the same.
> 
> All of this to explain how Nirbhay is a copy of tomahawk:
> 
> Your post barely touched the topic, and didn't explain how USA helped India or how Nirbhay resembles Tomahawk.



Interesting a collective attack. So amusing the answers.

population 1, *China*, 1,367,340,000, October 17, 2014, 19%, Official *population* clock. 2, *India*, 1,261,080,000, October 17 2014

Yet India counting is less reliable then China counting.

LCA being 4th generation? When? Not now. Planned sure.

I do not think it is an issue fro India to buy of the market. The space program was not bang a cyrogenic engine. Kaveru was not bang working. Neither is it hard to believe you just builded and engine. If it was that easy there would be a lot more nations having CM.

Whether it is off topic? Just read what you guys with Indian flag and non Indian names write.

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## kaku1

AsianUnion said:


> Prahaar is a tactical BALLISTIC missile, go check DRDO, a Mobile battlefield missile support system, NOT a CRUISE Missile. It is a MBRL. Prahaar is still highly an unstable system, with very in accurate guidance system, and still hits target above 10 meters, which is sadly not good enough. Pragati is export variant of Prahaar Missile, which nobody is interested to buy ever from India. Prahaar as u rightly said, is still not deployed yet in mass regiments of Indian Artillery Army.
> 
> 
> While am listing you Babur 1, Babur 2, NASR land based Cruise Missiles and RAAD, is Pakistan air launched Cruise Missile far ahead to anything Indians has.
> 
> All four types of Pakistani Cruise missiles, are in mass production, highly accurate, advanced electronic, and in full deployment, India has no match against it, except the Russia-indo Brahmos.
> 
> And as far as Ballistic Missile capability, Pakistan has a big, mighty answer for Ballisitc Missiles, where India cannot even play a catch up game.



Bro, believe me, SFC is not interested in Prahaar, and unstable? How you know this. BTW, Prahaar is for Artillery Regiment, and always be. BTW, where the hell I say it is a cruise missile. You have a query, I am replying it.

BTW, how you know that India have no match of Pak cruise missile, you have some inside knowledge of Indian Missile Program, please share with us.


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## anant_s



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## AsianLion

Omega007 said:


> 'Less than' 10 meter brother,we have our own way with words.Like previously the Nirbhay's range was reported to be more than 700 kilometers.And present CEP of Prahaar NLOS BSM is with RLG INS only,wait till our IRNSS comes online,then you get the glimpse of the true potential of Indian missiles.
> 
> And besides,your Nasr is in no way a cruise missile,it's a same system like Prahaar only with one third the range and payload!!
> 
> And coming to your Babur,congrats with that.You have it deployed only because you guys started like 15 years earlier than India and still it is fitted with an engine that is generations behind the one on board the Nirbhay prototype!!Says a lot about the military industrial complexes and R&D base of the respective countries.
> 
> And for Ballistic missiles,what you say was true like 8 years ago son,the reality has totally changed and India has already snatched the pace.The gap has widened beyond any catching up, you got that correct...............only it is in our favor.



No Prahaar is not same as NASR, NASR is nuclear capable, miniaturized nuclear capability, called Battlefield Nukes for limited range....India doesnot even have the concept of miniaturized battlefield nukes missile system, with tactical capability. Small tactical missile nuke is the main capability of NASR...very hard to make.

Secondly, i was talking of target point, target range, target hit range of more than 10 m, and you start talking abt distance range of 700km and that too from a MBRL, mobile system and India developed it, on its own...LoL.

Well Pakistan has been listening for long enough these madeup Indian threats, 'wait for new missiles', 'will', 'india's a super power', 'india's economy is world fastest growing', 'Indian has new indigenous atomic missile' etc etc. Well not to discourage Indians from dreaming.....Its a good laugh for Pakistanis.

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## RKO

Narbanko Gujrati said:


> you forgot pragati


pragati is an export variant of prahar... gud thing is they thought about exporting it and the bad thing is... our armed forces are yet to accept it!!

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## kaku1

AsianUnion said:


> No Prahaar is not same as NASR, NASR is nuclear capable, miniaturized nuclear capability, called Battlefield Nukes for limited range....India doesnot even have the concept of miniaturized battlefield nukes missile system, with tactical capability. Small tactical missile nuke is the main capability of NASR...very hard to make.
> 
> Secondly, i was talking of target point, target range, target hit range of more than 10 m, and you start talking abt distance range of 700km and that too from a MBRL, mobile system and India developed...LoL.
> 
> Well Pakistan has been listening for long enough these madeup Indian threats, 'wait for new missiles', 'will', 'india's a super power', 'india's economy is world fastest growing', 'Indian has new indigenous atomic missile' etc etc. Well not to discourage Indians from dreaming.....Its a good laugh for Pakistanis.



You even know about indian nuclear weapon, 

what was sub-kiloton nuclear test in Pokharan-2? Isnt it was miniaturized, dont be in any kind of delusion.



Kloitra said:


> What exactly Pakistan got which is so big and mighty that India can't catchup? Can you list the types and range available with both countries? Can you tell why are Indian BM not sufficient for Pakistan, and why Pakistan had to develop cruise?
> How Prahar is unstable system? How NASR is a cruise missile? How accurate are Pakistani cruise missiles (CEP)?



The reason of Pak cruise missile was Indian BMD program.


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## sathya

I 


sreekumar said:


> Missile was test fired in morning.But thread is still flying.


went to watch cricket at 3 page was s 24... Now 44..

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## Contrarian

AsianUnion said:


> Prahaar is a tactical BALLISTIC missile, go check DRDO, a Mobile battlefield missile support system, NOT a CRUISE Missile. It is a MBRL. Prahaar is still highly an unstable system, with very in accurate guidance system, and still hits target above 10 meters, which is sadly not good enough. Pragati is export variant of Prahaar Missile, which nobody is interested to buy ever from India. Prahaar as u rightly said, is still not deployed yet in mass regiments of Indian Artillery Army.
> 
> 
> While am listing you Babur 1, Babur 2, NASR land based Cruise Missiles and RAAD, is Pakistan air launched Cruise Missile far ahead to anything Indians has.
> 
> All four types of Pakistani Cruise missiles, are in mass production, highly accurate, advanced electronic, and in full deployment, India has no match against it, except the Russia-indo Brahmos.
> 
> And as far as Ballistic Missile capability, Pakistan has a big, mighty answer for Ballisitc Missiles, where India cannot even play a catch up game.


Why are you arguing?

Yes, Pakistan is far ahead of India in technology. 

Let the Indians live in their dream world. Why waste your effort on Indians who do not know these basics yet keep pretending.

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## SanjeevaniButi

#FridayFury: India's subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay scores a Perfect 10 - News Oneindia

India on Friday added an inspiring chapter to her book on ‘Home-Grown Weapons', when its nuclear-capable, sub-sonic cruise missile Nirbhay scored a Perfect 10 during its launch from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) in Chandipur. The missile took off from the Launch Complex-3 of ITR at 10.05 am and successfully completed the mission parameters within an hour (11.02 am). Military sources confirm to OneIndia that the *missile is capable of flying as low as 5 meters and can attain a maximum height of 5 km.* Nirbhay gives Indian armed forces deep-strike capabilities and can be launched from land, ship and submarine. The missile is developed by Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), with over a dozen DRDO labs joining hands in the project. During Friday's launch, *Nirbhay travelled a total of 1050 kilometers and hit the designated target area with an accuracy of 5-6 meters, which is also known as CEP* (Circular Error Probable). Sources say that* with a seeker coming on board the missile during future launches, Nirbhay is expected to hit the target with offer an accuracy of 1-2 meters.* Hyderabad-based DRDO lab Research Centre Imarat (RCI) is engaged in the development of a desi seeker. The RCI also played a key role in Nirbhay's success by providing a redundant navigation system, control actuation system and battery. "*The missile navigated through all the 17 way points*," a top official said. Capturing Nirbhay's outing on video was a Jaguar deep-penetrating strike aircraft of the Indian Air Force. Thrilled DRDO Chief says more variants in the offing For DRDO Chief Dr Avinash Chander, Nirbhay's second outing was critical to ward off critics, who were waiting in the wing to pounce on him, with the first attempt of the missile (March 2013) being only partially successful. "Mission successful! We have done it. It's a great day for DRDO and missile scientists in India. We are now confident of attempting smarter versions of the missile. This will add new dimensions to our armed forces' capabilities," Dr Chander told OneIndia from the Block House in ITR. A visibly joyous DRDO chief went on to add that Nirbhay demonstrated the capabilities to carry heavy payload giving confidence to its makers. "We are now ready to add more teeth to the missile. We need to integrate the terminal guidance system to make the missile more lethal. It will be then capable of homing on to specific targets," Dr Chander said. Commenting ADE for finally making the missile follow their script right from the word go and till the pre-planned end-game near the safe zone (target area), Dr Avinash said that the lab will have its hands full for the next 10 years. "As I see it, ADE is currently on a well-chartered flight-path with a number of critical projects in their kitty. Our efforts will be now to *have Nirbhay indicted into the Navy within three years followed by the Army an year after that. The air force version should be out in the next six years*," the top missile scientist said. Ready for crucial briefing with Defence Minister: DRDO DG A top DRDO team led by Dr K Tamilmani, Director General (Aeronautical Systems) is expected to brief Defence Minister Arun Jaitley on Saturday (Oct 18) about Nirbhay. "We will be meeting the Defence Minister with the complete mission parameters Nirbhay has achieved. Integrating the missile was a huge challenge with multiple agencies being involved. We will be briefing the minister about the benefits Nirbhay will offer to the Services," Dr Tamilmani, who oversaw ADE's progress in developing the missile on a daily basis, said. The team is also expected to brief Jaitley about the possibilities Nirbhay will offer to all three Service wings. "It has been tough days for the Nirbhay team and everyone was under tremendous pressure. We stuck to our plans and never let the focus shift. *When you develop complex weapon platforms, it's unfair to call challenges as delays*," Dr Tamilmani said. A perfect Diwali gift, says ADE boss According to P Srikumar, Director of Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), Bangalore, Nirbhay performed more than what was expected. "It's a great achievement for all of us. Nirbhay was loaded with technology challenges and today one by one we demonstrated how we overcame them. *A submerged air intake, which is just a hole in the belly of the missile and deployment of folded wing into the flight configuration are two critical technological challenged we overcame in this project*. Deriving inspiration from today's successful launch, we are confident of building on the foundation thereby converting Nirbhay into an excellent missile system," Srikumar said. "*Most of the designers in all our partner labs are youngsters, whose confidence will grow in leaps and bounds with the successful launch of Nirbhay.* We have tapped the capabilities of over a dozen DRDO labs for this project. I couldn't have asked for a better Diwali gift," the ADE director said. Dr K G Narayanan, former ADE director said that the Nirbhay's success is the logical extension of the work in the field of unmanned systems such as Lakshya and Nishant. "Though I am not fully familiar of the technology used in Nirbhay, it is a great achievement by our scientists," Dr Narayanan said. More than satisfied; exciting days ahead: RCI Director Dr G Satheesh Reddy, DRDO's ‘missile magician' and RCI Director was probably one man who knew what a successful outing for the missile could do to his entire team. "We are more than happy and more than satisfied. We have more challenges ahead and my team of young scientists will right away get on to *our next mission of making Nirbhay, a smarter weapon system.* We had to wait for over an year after the first launch and today every system that we developed stuck to the designated task," Dr Satheesh said. Celebrations at ADE The news of the Nirbhay's successful launch was greeted with great fanfare at the ADE campus in C V Raman Nagar. "It's a great day for India. It's a great day for DRDO and ADE. We will wait for the Nirbhay team to return and they have really slogged in the last two years. This success has come after a mild set-back we had last time and hence it is a great sense of relief for us. Nirbhay has gifted us a great sense of satisfaction," B Mahalingam, technical staff officer to ADE director, said. He said that celebrations will continue till the entire Nirbhay team lands back in Bangalore. "We are expecting everyone by mid of next week. We will celebrate this success, which I think we truly deserve," Mahalingam added. Incidentally, Nirbhay is the first missile DRDO developed in Bangalore.

Read more at: #FridayFury: India's subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay scores a Perfect 10 - News Oneindia

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## kaykay

anant_s said:


> View attachment 136871
> View attachment 136872


Awesome pics bro.

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## Kloitra

Munir said:


> Interesting a collective attack. So amusing the answers.
> 
> population 1, *China*, 1,367,340,000, October 17, 2014, 19%, Official *population* clock. 2, *India*, 1,261,080,000, October 17 2014
> 
> Yet India counting is less reliable then China counting.


Right, Indian counting is wrong and you know the real numbers!




> LCA being 4th generation? When? Not now. Planned sure.


Check the requirements for 4rth generation. Check the configuration of LSP aircrafts.



> I do not think it is an issue fro India to buy of the market. The space program was not bang a cyrogenic engine. Kaveru was not bang working. Neither is it hard to believe you just builded and engine. If it was that easy there would be a lot more nations having CM.


Right, all nations are willing to help Indian space program so that India may become a competitor to there own. And Kaveri is working, but not to the IAF required specs.



> Whether it is off topic? Just read what you guys with* Indian flag and non Indian names *write.


And yes, your post was offtopic. You didn't clarified how Nirbhay is a copy, just your theories regarding how nothing works in India, and how international community is lined up to help Indian R&D to progress! Some accusations on Indian PM and so on. Whatever the last part is supposed to imply...

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## Water Car Engineer

Munir said:


> Then what did India take so long to build one?




It didnt take long from project beginning. Better question is why it's taking so long for you guys to increase the range and bringing Babur into other branches of the military.

It's going to be hilarious when India services this in other branches before you.

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## kaku1

Kloitra said:


> Right, Indian counting is wrong and you know the real numbers!
> 
> 
> 
> Check the requirements for 4rth generation. Check the configuration of LSP aircrafts.
> 
> 
> Right, all nations are willing to help Indian space program so that India may become a competitor to there own. And Kaveri is working, but not to the IAF required specs.
> 
> 
> And yes, your post was offtopic. You didn't clarified how Nirbhay is a copy, just your theories regarding how nothing works in India, and how international community is lined up to help Indian R&D to progress! Some accusations on Indian PM and so on. Whatever the last part is supposed to imply...



When you step on a troll, you also become a troll.


----------



## Sam Manekshaw

AsianUnion said:


> NASR is nuclear capable, miniaturized nuclear capability, called Battlefield Nukes for limited range....India doesnot even have the concept of miniaturized battlefield nukes missile system, with tactical capability. Small tactical missile nuke is the main capability of NASR...very hard to make.


Result: zero possibility of using it in battlefield.
Note: Do not chest thump in reply.


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## Bobby

Zarvan said:


> FOR GOD sake its a clear cut copy mate just like we did in fact now it seems to be more copy of Babur because it has exactly same range and your Indians were screaming on this forum like you are coming up with some thing original


Ya.....we copied seeing images of Tomhack in news paper...i agree


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## Water Car Engineer



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## kaku1

Sam Manekshaw said:


> Result: zero possibility of using it in battlefield.
> Note: Do not chest thump in reply.



Actually we tested the Suitcase Nuke during Pokhran-2. weight around 30-80 Kg.

Shakti-4: 0.5 KT
Shakto-5: 0.2 KT.


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## Water Car Engineer

Airintake clearly visible this time.



AsianUnion said:


> NASR can be used with or WITHOUT a NUKE. So it has not 100% but rather twice 200% application in Battlefield.
> 
> Since India fails to acquire this type of Pakistani technology, you wont even understand it properly.




Bro, 
















This tactical ballistic missile will be added to it's artillery corps. Bigger range, etc.

India sees no use in a 70km nuclear missile. India will launch Brahmos, Shauryas, Prithvis for shorter range nuclear missiles.

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## AsianLion

Sam Manekshaw said:


> Result: zero possibility of using it in battlefield.
> Note: Do not chest thump in reply.




NASR can be used with or WITHOUT a NUKE. So it has not 100% but rather twice 200% application in Battlefield.

Since India fails to acquire this type of Pakistani technology, you wont even understand it properly.


----------



## Kinetic

SanjeevaniButi said:


> #FridayFury: India's subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay scores a Perfect 10 - News Oneindia
> 
> India on Friday added an inspiring chapter to her book on ‘Home-Grown Weapons', when its nuclear-capable, sub-sonic cruise missile Nirbhay scored a Perfect 10 during its launch from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) in Chandipur. The missile took off from the Launch Complex-3 of ITR at 10.05 am and successfully completed the mission parameters within an hour (11.02 am). Military sources confirm to OneIndia that the *missile is capable of flying as low as 5 meters and can attain a maximum height of 5 km.* Nirbhay gives Indian armed forces deep-strike capabilities and can be launched from land, ship and submarine. The missile is developed by Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), with over a dozen DRDO labs joining hands in the project. During Friday's launch, *Nirbhay travelled a total of 1050 kilometers and hit the designated target area with an accuracy of 5-6 meters, which is also known as CEP* (Circular Error Probable). Sources say that* with a seeker coming on board the missile during future launches, Nirbhay is expected to hit the target with offer an accuracy of 1-2 meters.* Hyderabad-based DRDO lab Research Centre Imarat (RCI) is engaged in the development of a desi seeker. The RCI also played a key role in Nirbhay's success by providing a redundant navigation system, control actuation system and battery. "*The missile navigated through all the 17 way points*," a top official said. Capturing Nirbhay's outing on video was a Jaguar deep-penetrating strike aircraft of the Indian Air Force. Thrilled DRDO Chief says more variants in the offing For DRDO Chief Dr Avinash Chander, Nirbhay's second outing was critical to ward off critics, who were waiting in the wing to pounce on him, with the first attempt of the missile (March 2013) being only partially successful. "Mission successful! We have done it. It's a great day for DRDO and missile scientists in India. We are now confident of attempting smarter versions of the missile. This will add new dimensions to our armed forces' capabilities," Dr Chander told OneIndia from the Block House in ITR. A visibly joyous DRDO chief went on to add that Nirbhay demonstrated the capabilities to carry heavy payload giving confidence to its makers. "We are now ready to add more teeth to the missile. We need to integrate the terminal guidance system to make the missile more lethal. It will be then capable of homing on to specific targets," Dr Chander said. Commenting ADE for finally making the missile follow their script right from the word go and till the pre-planned end-game near the safe zone (target area), Dr Avinash said that the lab will have its hands full for the next 10 years. "As I see it, ADE is currently on a well-chartered flight-path with a number of critical projects in their kitty. Our efforts will be now to *have Nirbhay indicted into the Navy within three years followed by the Army an year after that. The air force version should be out in the next six years*," the top missile scientist said. Ready for crucial briefing with Defence Minister: DRDO DG A top DRDO team led by Dr K Tamilmani, Director General (Aeronautical Systems) is expected to brief Defence Minister Arun Jaitley on Saturday (Oct 18) about Nirbhay. "We will be meeting the Defence Minister with the complete mission parameters Nirbhay has achieved. Integrating the missile was a huge challenge with multiple agencies being involved. We will be briefing the minister about the benefits Nirbhay will offer to the Services," Dr Tamilmani, who oversaw ADE's progress in developing the missile on a daily basis, said. The team is also expected to brief Jaitley about the possibilities Nirbhay will offer to all three Service wings. "It has been tough days for the Nirbhay team and everyone was under tremendous pressure. We stuck to our plans and never let the focus shift. *When you develop complex weapon platforms, it's unfair to call challenges as delays*," Dr Tamilmani said. A perfect Diwali gift, says ADE boss According to P Srikumar, Director of Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), Bangalore, Nirbhay performed more than what was expected. "It's a great achievement for all of us. Nirbhay was loaded with technology challenges and today one by one we demonstrated how we overcame them. *A submerged air intake, which is just a hole in the belly of the missile and deployment of folded wing into the flight configuration are two critical technological challenged we overcame in this project*. Deriving inspiration from today's successful launch, we are confident of building on the foundation thereby converting Nirbhay into an excellent missile system," Srikumar said. "*Most of the designers in all our partner labs are youngsters, whose confidence will grow in leaps and bounds with the successful launch of Nirbhay.* We have tapped the capabilities of over a dozen DRDO labs for this project. I couldn't have asked for a better Diwali gift," the ADE director said. Dr K G Narayanan, former ADE director said that the Nirbhay's success is the logical extension of the work in the field of unmanned systems such as Lakshya and Nishant. "Though I am not fully familiar of the technology used in Nirbhay, it is a great achievement by our scientists," Dr Narayanan said. More than satisfied; exciting days ahead: RCI Director Dr G Satheesh Reddy, DRDO's ‘missile magician' and RCI Director was probably one man who knew what a successful outing for the missile could do to his entire team. "We are more than happy and more than satisfied. We have more challenges ahead and my team of young scientists will right away get on to *our next mission of making Nirbhay, a smarter weapon system.* We had to wait for over an year after the first launch and today every system that we developed stuck to the designated task," Dr Satheesh said. Celebrations at ADE The news of the Nirbhay's successful launch was greeted with great fanfare at the ADE campus in C V Raman Nagar. "It's a great day for India. It's a great day for DRDO and ADE. We will wait for the Nirbhay team to return and they have really slogged in the last two years. This success has come after a mild set-back we had last time and hence it is a great sense of relief for us. Nirbhay has gifted us a great sense of satisfaction," B Mahalingam, technical staff officer to ADE director, said. He said that celebrations will continue till the entire Nirbhay team lands back in Bangalore. "We are expecting everyone by mid of next week. We will celebrate this success, which I think we truly deserve," Mahalingam added. Incidentally, Nirbhay is the first missile DRDO developed in Bangalore.
> 
> Read more at: #FridayFury: India's subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay scores a Perfect 10 - News Oneindia



so without seeker only with INS they got 5 meter accuracy! With seeker they should get .5 meter.



AsianUnion said:


> NASR can be used with or WITHOUT a NUKE. So it has not 100% but rather twice 200% application in Battlefield.
> 
> Since India fails to acquire this type of Pakistani technology, you wont even understand it properly.



guys pls stop reply to his stupidity.

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## SanjeevaniButi

Kinetic said:


> so without seeker only with INS they got 5 meter accuracy! With seeker they should get .5 meter.


We can always hope.


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## Sam Manekshaw

AsianUnion said:


> NASR can be used with or WITHOUT a NUKE. So it has not 100% but rather twice 200% application in Battlefield.
> 
> Since India fails to acquire this type of Pakistani technology, you wont even understand it properly.


"Without" yes u can but "with" i serious disagree with that. I already said do not chest thump.


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## Bratva

Kinetic said:


> so without seeker only with INS they got 5 meter accuracy! With seeker they should get .5 meter.
> 
> 
> 
> guys pls stop reply to his stupidity.



IIRC, A seeker gives a capability to strike moving targets. To achieve 1 meter accuracy, you still need sat nav.


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## RKO

Bratva said:


> Are you nuts or what? Where did Pakistan claim pin point accuracy ?


Pakistan test fires Cruise Missile Hatf VII Babur successfully: ISPR | PAKISTAN - geo.tv

if you think geo tv is raw propaganda. ...
there is thing called Google (Google or pk)
Search this " babur cruise missile with pinpoint accuracy" you will get tonnes both from Indian and Pakistani and also others!!! 
Here babur cruise missile pinpoint accuracy - Google Search

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## Bratva

RKO said:


> Pakistan test fires Cruise Missile Hatf VII Babur successfully: ISPR | PAKISTAN - geo.tv
> 
> if you think geo tv is raw propaganda. ...
> there is thing called Google (Google or pk)
> Search this " babur cruise missile with pinpoint accuracy" you will get tonnes both from Indian and Pakistani and also others!!!
> Here babur cruise missile pinpoint accuracy - Google Search



I take such pinpoint accuracy claims with a grain a of salt.


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## SrNair

Munir said:


> Interesting a collective attack. So amusing the answers.
> 
> population 1, *China*, 1,367,340,000, October 17, 2014, 19%, Official *population* clock. 2, *India*, 1,261,080,000, October 17 2014
> 
> Yet India counting is less reliable then China counting.
> 
> LCA being 4th generation? When? Not now. Planned sure.
> 
> I do not think it is an issue fro India to buy of the market. The space program was not bang a cyrogenic engine. Kaveru was not bang working. Neither is it hard to believe you just builded and engine. If it was that easy there would be a lot more nations having CM.
> 
> Whether it is off topic? Just read what you guys with Indian flag and non Indian names write.




But we thought TTAs are more liberal , intelligent than most of immature members from India.

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## RKO

SanjeevaniButi said:


> #FridayFury: India's subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay scores a Perfect 10 - News Oneindia
> 
> India on Friday added an inspiring chapter to her book on ‘Home-Grown Weapons', when its nuclear-capable, sub-sonic cruise missile Nirbhay scored a Perfect 10 during its launch from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) in Chandipur. The missile took off from the Launch Complex-3 of ITR at 10.05 am and successfully completed the mission parameters within an hour (11.02 am). Military sources confirm to OneIndia that the *missile is capable of flying as low as 5 meters and can attain a maximum height of 5 km.* Nirbhay gives Indian armed forces deep-strike capabilities and can be launched from land, ship and submarine. The missile is developed by Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), with over a dozen DRDO labs joining hands in the project. During Friday's launch, *Nirbhay travelled a total of 1050 kilometers and hit the designated target area with an accuracy of 5-6 meters, which is also known as CEP* (Circular Error Probable). Sources say that* with a seeker coming on board the missile during future launches, Nirbhay is expected to hit the target with offer an accuracy of 1-2 meters.* Hyderabad-based DRDO lab Research Centre Imarat (RCI) is engaged in the development of a desi seeker. The RCI also played a key role in Nirbhay's success by providing a redundant navigation system, control actuation system and battery. "*The missile navigated through all the 17 way points*," a top official said. Capturing Nirbhay's outing on video was a Jaguar deep-penetrating strike aircraft of the Indian Air Force. Thrilled DRDO Chief says more variants in the offing For DRDO Chief Dr Avinash Chander, Nirbhay's second outing was critical to ward off critics, who were waiting in the wing to pounce on him, with the first attempt of the missile (March 2013) being only partially successful. "Mission successful! We have done it. It's a great day for DRDO and missile scientists in India. We are now confident of attempting smarter versions of the missile. This will add new dimensions to our armed forces' capabilities," Dr Chander told OneIndia from the Block House in ITR. A visibly joyous DRDO chief went on to add that Nirbhay demonstrated the capabilities to carry heavy payload giving confidence to its makers. "We are now ready to add more teeth to the missile. We need to integrate the terminal guidance system to make the missile more lethal. It will be then capable of homing on to specific targets," Dr Chander said. Commenting ADE for finally making the missile follow their script right from the word go and till the pre-planned end-game near the safe zone (target area), Dr Avinash said that the lab will have its hands full for the next 10 years. "As I see it, ADE is currently on a well-chartered flight-path with a number of critical projects in their kitty. Our efforts will be now to *have Nirbhay indicted into the Navy within three years followed by the Army an year after that. The air force version should be out in the next six years*," the top missile scientist said. Ready for crucial briefing with Defence Minister: DRDO DG A top DRDO team led by Dr K Tamilmani, Director General (Aeronautical Systems) is expected to brief Defence Minister Arun Jaitley on Saturday (Oct 18) about Nirbhay. "We will be meeting the Defence Minister with the complete mission parameters Nirbhay has achieved. Integrating the missile was a huge challenge with multiple agencies being involved. We will be briefing the minister about the benefits Nirbhay will offer to the Services," Dr Tamilmani, who oversaw ADE's progress in developing the missile on a daily basis, said. The team is also expected to brief Jaitley about the possibilities Nirbhay will offer to all three Service wings. "It has been tough days for the Nirbhay team and everyone was under tremendous pressure. We stuck to our plans and never let the focus shift. *When you develop complex weapon platforms, it's unfair to call challenges as delays*," Dr Tamilmani said. A perfect Diwali gift, says ADE boss According to P Srikumar, Director of Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), Bangalore, Nirbhay performed more than what was expected. "It's a great achievement for all of us. Nirbhay was loaded with technology challenges and today one by one we demonstrated how we overcame them. *A submerged air intake, which is just a hole in the belly of the missile and deployment of folded wing into the flight configuration are two critical technological challenged we overcame in this project*. Deriving inspiration from today's successful launch, we are confident of building on the foundation thereby converting Nirbhay into an excellent missile system," Srikumar said. "*Most of the designers in all our partner labs are youngsters, whose confidence will grow in leaps and bounds with the successful launch of Nirbhay.* We have tapped the capabilities of over a dozen DRDO labs for this project. I couldn't have asked for a better Diwali gift," the ADE director said. Dr K G Narayanan, former ADE director said that the Nirbhay's success is the logical extension of the work in the field of unmanned systems such as Lakshya and Nishant. "Though I am not fully familiar of the technology used in Nirbhay, it is a great achievement by our scientists," Dr Narayanan said. More than satisfied; exciting days ahead: RCI Director Dr G Satheesh Reddy, DRDO's ‘missile magician' and RCI Director was probably one man who knew what a successful outing for the missile could do to his entire team. "We are more than happy and more than satisfied. We have more challenges ahead and my team of young scientists will right away get on to *our next mission of making Nirbhay, a smarter weapon system.* We had to wait for over an year after the first launch and today every system that we developed stuck to the designated task," Dr Satheesh said. Celebrations at ADE The news of the Nirbhay's successful launch was greeted with great fanfare at the ADE campus in C V Raman Nagar. "It's a great day for India. It's a great day for DRDO and ADE. We will wait for the Nirbhay team to return and they have really slogged in the last two years. This success has come after a mild set-back we had last time and hence it is a great sense of relief for us. Nirbhay has gifted us a great sense of satisfaction," B Mahalingam, technical staff officer to ADE director, said. He said that celebrations will continue till the entire Nirbhay team lands back in Bangalore. "We are expecting everyone by mid of next week. We will celebrate this success, which I think we truly deserve," Mahalingam added. Incidentally, Nirbhay is the first missile DRDO developed in Bangalore.
> 
> Read more at: #FridayFury: India's subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay scores a Perfect 10 - News Oneindia


morning they said 14 waypoints bt 17???

6 years for airforce version????? damn too much!!!


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## Omega007

AsianUnion said:


> No Prahaar is not same as NASR, NASR is nuclear capable, miniaturized nuclear capability, called Battlefield Nukes for limited range....India doesnot even have the concept of miniaturized battlefield nukes missile system, with tactical capability. Small tactical missile nuke is the main capability of NASR...very hard to make.
> 
> Secondly, i was talking of target point, target range, target hit range of more than 10 m, and you start talking abt distance range of 700km and that too from a MBRL, mobile system and India developed it, on its own...LoL.
> 
> Well Pakistan has been listening for long enough these madeup Indian threats, 'wait for new missiles', 'will', 'india's a super power', 'india's economy is world fastest growing', 'Indian has new indigenous atomic missile' etc etc. Well not to discourage Indians from dreaming.....Its a good laugh for Pakistanis.



Man,are you speaking English??


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## Capt.Popeye

Munir said:


> Interesting a collective attack. So amusing the answers.
> 
> population 1, *China*, 1,367,340,000, October 17, 2014, 19%, Official *population* clock. 2, *India*, 1,261,080,000, October 17 2014
> 
> Yet India counting is less reliable then China counting.
> 
> LCA being 4th generation? When? Not now. Planned sure.
> 
> I do not think it is an issue fro India to buy of the market. The space program was not bang a cyrogenic engine. Kaveru was not bang working. Neither is it hard to believe you just builded and engine. If it was that easy there would be a lot more nations having CM.
> 
> Whether it is off topic? Just read what you guys with Indian flag and non Indian names write.




Mr.TT analist; how relevant is all this _kahaani_ to the topic of the thread?

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## RKO

Bratva said:


> I take such pinpoint accuracy claims with a grain a of salt.


really??? not just one article bt evey one reporting the same!! so you r sayin that Pakistani scientists were chest thumping????


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## Capt.Popeye

Bratva said:


> I take such pinpoint accuracy claims with a grain a of salt.



You can even take it with a bowl-full of chillies. _
Kee farq painda._

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## Bratva

RKO said:


> really??? not just one article bt evey one reporting the same!! so you r sayin that Pakistani scientists were chest thumping????



everyone chest thumps. We have a established system in form of Tomahawk to compare such claims of Nirbhay or Babur. Tomahawk Can only achieve pinpoint accuracy with SAT NAV. Without SAT NAV, CEP is always above 10 meters.



Capt.Popeye said:


> You can even take it with a bowl-full of chillies.
> _Kee farq painda._



I'm just pointing out the inaccurate claims being peddled as facts here. Tomahwak recently upgraded with a seeker in it's Block-IV upgrade. It doesn't made it accurate to 1 meter CEP without SAT NAV, what it did is that it can strike moving targets.

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## anant_s

sathya said:


> went to watch cricket at 3 page was s 24... Now 44


yeah guys here actually have a strike rate better than Rusell


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## ganimi kawa

* Congratulations to DRDO for the successful testing of Nirbhay LRCM! * A long awaited event which has generated huge excitement and equally huge butthurt here on PDF.

Guys, we have had our fun and frolic celebrating the successful launch. It is time we analyse this missile and its capabilities and also the challenges that lie ahead.

1. This missile test was extra special because* it validated many more test points than are usual* for the first successful test of any cruise missile. e.g.
a. Full range i.e. 1000km +
b. Waypoint navigation a most crucial feature of any cruise missile.
c. Loitering ability.
d. Changing the flight course and re-designation of targets.
This is the reason behind DRDO requiring only four more tests of Nirbhay before induction.


2. The confidence of DRDO in the missile and it's components must have been very high as the media was allowed a live telecast of the launch.

3. The NDTV video shows a pumped up scientist claiming "much more is in the kitty". Looking at his body language LRCM is definitely in the offing.

4. ARM role is definitely happening.

5. Finally, for the learned trolls! Nirbhay differs from Tomahawk group of missiles in following areas-
a. Nose cone
b. Air intake. (better stealth)
c. tail fins shape.
d. Wing length and camber.
Nirbhay is definitely as stealthy as most other long range cruise missiles out there. (Exceptions like Storm Shadow et al.)


*A few interesting questions raised.*

1. How the commands were communicated to the missile?

2. What is the status of the seeker, image library, terrain data?

3. Any other stealth measures? Esp. IR suppresion?

4. How was the flip from vertical to horizontal achieved during launch sequence? No thrusters like Brahmos or Shaurya seen.

5. Max speed?

6. Which engine will power the production varient?



*Challenges.*

1. Demonstrating extreme low level flying. TERCOM etc.

2. Sub and Air launched version.

3. Sub munitions dispensing ability.

4. Recoverable Missile?

5. Mass production and QC issues.


Let us have a discussion on these lines.

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## k7x

With 1500 km, in future it can be configured to drop a bomb and return to base, to be recovered and reused.Nothing is impossible.
We can at least reuse the turbofan and electronics.

Only strength of cruise missile its low level flight. Making it diffixult to radar.Once identified, it can be taken out easily..

Unlike super or hypersonic cruise missiles these ones are slow.

DRDO has developed airships(blimps) with thermal sensors. These high altitude airships will identify the CM and counter measures will be implemented.

It would be foolish to think India is sitting duck for any CM.


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## RKO

Bratva said:


> I'm just pointing out the inaccurate claims being peddled as facts here. Tomahwak recently upgraded with a seeker in it's Block-IV upgrade. It doesn't made it accurate to 1 meter CEP without SAT NAV, what it did is that it can strike moving targets.


those inaccurate claims are from Pakistanis. so then,I was just making fun of those inaccurate claims (I got 10 neut ratings too) see my sign!!!! Case closed!!! Gud night....Sweet dreams!


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## Lil Mathew

sandy_3126 said:


> Closely guarded, and I dont have any...


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## Abingdonboy

k7x said:


> With 1500 km, in future it can be configured to drop a bomb and return to base, to be recovered and reused.Nothing is impossible.


This is more the job of a UCAV and India is working on that in a separate project. 

The Nirbhay doesn't need to be reusable.


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## Bratva

RKO said:


> those inaccurate claims are from Pakistanis. so then,I was just making fun of those inaccurate claims (I got 10 neut ratings too) see my sign!!!! Case closed!!! Gud night....Sweet dreams!



Inaccurate claims are from Indian side as well. Grow up. Learn to debate properly.

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## kadamba-warrior

Isn't it absurd that Pakistanis even brought "TOMAHAWK" in the discussion about an Indian Missile?

Does anybody have any shred of evidence to suggest that the technology was borrowed? The only similarity that I see between Tomahawk and Nirbhay is that both are Cruise Missiles!

Even discounting MTCR or similar Missile technology transfer embargoes, the relationship between India and the US has been cold to say the least, during the development timeframe of this missile.

Remember, it was the same Pakistanis who made fun of India during the Khobragade incident. Now suddenly they think that US transferred technology for this missile? If it did, it must have happened couple of weeks ago during our PM's US visit!

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## MilSpec

Munir said:


> @sandy_3126 What exactly is wrong with the posting. As far as I know every piece of my post is reality. Let us give moderating team the look at it...


I agree, et the moderators decide, as soon as I rated, Iintimated the team about and asked them to reverse it if they found it appropriate..



Munir said:


> Your first missile test failed in minutes due to laser gyro malfunction and DRDO claimed success. You can read it on the web/LiveFist etc



Yes it did, I absolutely agree.. But what exactly is the purpose of testing, it is to the validate the design intent and verify the efficacy of the said project. Failing a test is a part of the Product development cycle. What does that reflect on the engineering teams behind the project, I hope you can understand that. These are not black projects and to ensure validation, summary o test results are made Public. This is what accountability is all about. As far as the sucess part of it, it depends on what your objectives were, your claim is out rightly disingenuous, as DRDO claimed partial suceess, where you conveniently chose to ignore "partial", let me tell you what the partial success was, the telemetry responded, the suction pressure and dicharge pressure adhered to the prediction model, the compression ratio was within 98% of the predition model with variable atmospheric pressure drop, the adiabatic efficiency with altitude correction was 1.2 times the predicted model, the navigation system responded to presets, the failure was with the comm loss with on board adaptive control board, and thus the mission failed in achieving all objectives.... Now being a seasoned poster here I hope you understand what the term partial meant.



Munir said:


> You are the largest nation at the moment in population...


How is it relevant to Nirbhay's successfl test? and thus off topic and a remark of no value whatsoever.



Munir said:


> You are busy with prop trainer (IAF skipped it by ordering foreign), you're LCA is longest program even in mankind when we talk about basic light fighterjet. You do add every part from the rest of the world. US engine, Israeli radar. European avionics.


Again a very disingenuous claim, Please research HPT32 which is a basic prop plane built in 1977. Prop planes have nothing to do with the successful launch of Nirbhay Cruise missile and is completely irrelevant.
Again LCA program has nothing to do Nirbhay Cruise missile and complete irrelevant, t is off topic and completely of no value to the topic at hand....
There are Basic trainer threads, and LCA sticky threads where you ca pose all your queries about said project, mock them, critique the, but posting about completely seperate projects, developed by separate set or organisation is on a thread about succesful launch of cruise missile in unwaranted.




Munir said:


> You want to be part of Superpower. Everything is linked to be part of or accepted as Superpower.. Even the Times had the title the next superpower India... Look at average Bollywood movie and it is all about India being so good... Read posts on the web and it is all about indiagenous sorry I meant indigenous.



How is bollywood movies, potrayal of india, aspirations of India as a nation remotely related to discussion of th sucessful test of missile, the objectives of test, validation of test parameters, and application of the said system.... I am afraid it makes no sense to me.



Munir said:


> Modi is part of Hindu nationalism and is part of the massacre of muslims in Gujarat. Don;t tell me that he was banned by the usa for decades because he served the best chai. He was indeed a chai seller in India...



Social and legal issus in india to be raised on a thread for missile test.... discussing track record of a politician who is not remotely related to the development o the testing of the misile, and then mocking his beginnings and travel restrictions, on a thread related to testing of a cruise missile.. What can say more... if you think this is the level of discourse that a think tank consultant and respected member of the forum needs to indulge in, I will leave it up to you... you can be the judge of it.



Munir said:


> Indeed you have MKI crash just day ago.


The thread was started on Sunday? the tests were announced quite before the mentioned accident. I am quite appalled that you would use an unfortunate accident to further you points. Anyways it is your choice,



Munir said:


> So my Indian think tank friend. NEgative rating is not an issue but there is nothing wrong in it. Surely lightly direct but still nothing wrong and less offensive then most posters from your nation write.


As a matter of fact the negative rating was after quite a bit of reading and giving you all the benefit of the doubt, and to second gues my own rating informing the mangement, as the event is highly unlikely. But the content according to me way beyond the context of the thread. thus the rating and also intimation to mods of the event.



Munir said:


> @WebMaster
> 
> I think it is plain stupid if you give me rating on nothing and then start a personal discussion with all the mods. Let me be simple. Your side is abusing this forum in almost every section I have read. Your sides keep thanking eachother for what? Smileys? I do not get into discussions about ethics if there is no sincerity and certainly not based on something real. My post is correct.



well, you are a well respected contributer to the forum, and objectivity is basic expectation from member of your rank. f you want to indulge in negative rating members as an agenda against a certain nationality, that is your choice, and just in case you have not noticed, there is an option to report posts.

@Horus @WebMaster @Oscar Please review and take appropriate actions

hope that helps.

regards.

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## ganimi kawa

Narbanko Gujrati said:


> yes that will be challenge but will be done in next few tests
> 
> 1.when can we expect another test ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.but priority will be
> 
> Navy Ship launched - we dont have enough sub platforms to look forward to deployments - navy needs them for sea control, land attack as they are desperately short of long range attack systems so they will get 1st priority
> 
> Army / SFC - they will form the major users but they have alternatives so they will get second priority
> 
> IAF air launched - IAF has moving platforms so Su30 can fire Air launched Brahmos (290km + 500km su30) so easily 800 km range so they wll get 3rd priority + they are getting brahmos mini by 2017/2018 so they too have alternate system
> 
> Navy Subs - since we dont have enough subs to deploy these + alternate systems are available K5 K4 so they will get last priority + will be timed to produced when many subs + arihant follow ons enter service
> 
> +
> 
> i think we can expect both missile silo / VLS AND a torpedo tube (encapsulated) launch version for Subs as the dimensions of Nirbhay are similar to dimensions of Brahmos M , which too is being planned for torpedo tubbe launch
> 
> 
> 
> 3. multiple wardheads ?
> cant see how with 500kg payload
> cluster bomb type - maybe & desirable
> 
> 
> 4. do we need it to be recoverable ?
> 
> not required as per me
> 
> 
> 5. it is required so the production setup will be caliberated for huge orders so no issues on that one
> 
> 
> 
> 6. plus i think it was directly tested with cannister launch config


[/quote]


1. Next two tests should be for validating the basic design and functions, so expect both of them in next 12-18 mths.

2.Yes, you are right. But I was talking about challenges not priorities. Naval ship based and land based versions will be the easiest to develop. The AF and Sub version are a bit tricky. Though we have a solid base in underwater launch tech due to K4/K15 series. Also, I expect the AF version to have a stealthier airframe a la storm shadow.

3. Mulitple warheads are not submuntions. Cluster bombs with smart seekers is what I have in mind. Something like TLAM-D.







4. Eventually we would need a recoverable vehicle. Nirbhay is where we begin.

5. Large order does not guarantee quality production. In fact I'm most concerned about this aspect.

6. Not exactly a canister launch today. In such launch It's the canister that is tested more than the missile (nirbhay already has almost all modifications req for a canister launch).


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## Mitro

Congratulations to dear DRDO.
Thank you so much for this achievement would be icing on the cake if developed before Pakistan .
And gods know when it will be in service with army and gods know when we will make air and submarine version.
May be when world will already deployed hypersonic cruise missile with 10 Mac speed.


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## Munir

So now Indian stark is playing the game of negative rating a post that was already negative rated by another Indian... Well, there are more Indians with rating permission. You know where to do it...


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## jaiind

great day for drdo,proud moment for them.


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## Zarvan

kadamba-warrior said:


> Isn't it absurd that Pakistanis even brought "TOMAHAWK" in the discussion about an Indian Missile?
> 
> Does anybody have any shred of evidence to suggest that the technology was borrowed? The only similarity that I see between Tomahawk and Nirbhay is that both are Cruise Missiles!
> 
> Even discounting MTCR or similar Missile technology transfer embargoes, the relationship between India and the US has been cold to say the least, during the development timeframe of this missile.
> 
> Remember, it was the same Pakistanis who made fun of India during the Khobragade incident. Now suddenly they think that US transferred technology for this missile? If it did, it must have happened couple of weeks ago during our PM's US visit!


We are not saying USA teansferred it but Nirbhay is complete copy off Tomahawk just like our BABUR

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## RKO

Bratva said:


> Inaccurate claims are from Indian side as well. Grow up. Learn to debate properly.


Plz enlightened me about inaccurate claims made by Indian. .!!!
abt the last part... first tell that to people like asiaunion, janasad... and there we have TTA munir and then try lecturing me!!
im serious abt the first part...plz do enlighteneme!!


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## MilSpec

I am not sure if it is the same engine.



Lil Mathew said:


>


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## RKO

Zarvan said:


> We are not saying USA teansferred it but Nirbhay is complete copy off Tomahawk just like our BABUR


plz enlightene me how we copied a missile without tot or reverse engineering. you had the missile while we dont...why do you think we copied it??? if is that cuz of design, all cruise missiles look almost same!!

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## Arya Desa

farhan_9909 said:


> We will never reveal the true range of our Babur
> 
> we might end up targeting a indian city 1500km away from Pakistan and blame it on someone else



Knowing pakistan babur's range is probably overstated.

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## Water Car Engineer

sandy_3126 said:


> I am not sure if it is the same engine.




The prototypes are using a Russian engine. The production model or midway will use an Indian one.


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## Alfa-Fighter

Zarvan said:


> We are not saying USA teansferred it but Nirbhay is complete copy off Tomahawk just like our BABUR


Can you please list down the similarities of Tomahawk Vs Babur Vs Nirbhaya ? Including Guidance system, motor control etc? If not .. please keep quite. 

Every plane has wings, Fuel to fly, Pilot to fly , engine to fly and engines fuel and oxygen to burn .... but that doesn't make every plane is same and copy.


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## Keshav Murali

Zarvan said:


> We are not saying USA teansferred it but Nirbhay is complete copy off Tomahawk just like our BABUR







This is Nirbhay.





This is Tomahawk.

A baby could see that the design is totally different.

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## Kloitra

Keshav Murali said:


> This is Nirbhay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Tomahawk.
> 
> A baby could see that the design is totally different.


Actually your post makes incomplete comparison. Nirbhay has yet to eject the rocket motor and open the wings in the pic.


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## kaykay

Zarvan said:


> We are not saying USA teansferred it but Nirbhay is complete copy off Tomahawk just like our BABUR


There is lots of difference between 2. Nirbhay has a submerged air intake( basically like a hole inside the body) while Tomhawk and Babur has intakes popping out under the belly. Just go have a look for better understanding and cut this crap.
Tomhawk air intake:
http://www.rocketreviews.com/image-quest-tomahawk-slcm-air-intake-600-124011015006712.jpg

Nirbhay air intake:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TRzh499ovro/UT_EnE7tkTI/AAAAAAAAEww/YyQex7ibs9Y/s1600/h.jpg


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## Oldman1

kaykay said:


> There is lots of difference between 2. Nirbhay has a submerged air intake( basically like a whole inside the body) while Tomhawk and Babur has intakes popping out under the belly. Just go have a look for better understanding and cut this crap.



That was the old Tomahawk, the newer versions have the same thing.

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## Sardar Singh

Munir said:


> So now Indian stark is playing the game of negative rating a post that was already negative rated by another Indian... Well, *there are more Indians with rating permission*. You know where to do it...


Instead of blabbering will you reply to post no. #693?
P.s - Still they're not biased like you,Stop looking every thing through your green glass and act balance !!!

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## kadamba-warrior

Zarvan said:


> We are not saying USA teansferred it but Nirbhay is complete copy off Tomahawk just like our BABUR




USA didn't transfer it, neither did a Tomahawk land in our territory intact! How else do you think we copied it? Telepathy?


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## kaykay

Oldman1 said:


> That was the old Tomahawk, the newer versions have the same thing.


I know that sir. Block 4 has submerged air intake. But here that guy was saying that Nirbhay is a copy of Tomhawk and Babur( Babur was copy of Tomhawk block1/2) so definitely Nirbhay is very different than first 3 blocks of Tomhawk.
Though yes newer block 4 and Nirbhay has similarities but no way they are copied. Neither we had Tomhawk block4( or any block) NPR USA gave us any ToT or such.


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## Oldman1

kaykay said:


> I know that sir. Block 4 has submerged air intake. But here that guy was saying that Nirbhay is a copy of Tomhawk and Babur( Babur was copy of Tomhawk block1/2) so definitely Nirbhay is very different than first 3 blocks of Tomhawk.
> Though yes newer block 4 and Nirbhay has similarities but no way they are copied. Neither we had Tomhawk block4( or any block) NPR USA gave us any ToT or such.



Nah its not a copy, even the Russian cruise missiles look similar to the Tomahawks but its no copy.

Look at China's.

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## RKO

kadamba-warrior said:


> USA didn't transfer it, neither did a Tomahawk land in our territory intact! How else do you think we copied it? Telepathy?


yeah probably!



Sardar Singh said:


> Instead of blabbering will you reply to post no. #693?
> P.s - Still they're not biased like you,Stop looking every thing through your green glass and act balance !!!



Sardar ji, lgnore him... he is a think tank from kindergarten!!

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## axisofevil

Why China Helped Countries Like Pakistan, North Korea Build Nuclear Bombs - US News


----------



## Oldman1

Does India have plans for stealth version that can be launch from smaller aircraft? Something like this?

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## narcon

Tata 12x12




> Tata Motors Ltd has developed an indigenous high mobility, all-terrain and all-wheel
> drive, Tata LPTA 5252-12 X12 vehicle, specifically for missile launcher cum carrier
> applications like integration of _Prahar, BrahMos and Nirbhay Missiles_, in close
> coordination with R&DE – DRDO.
> 
> The vehicle is equipped with a state of the art Electronic Controlled heavy duty engine
> and automatic transmission, has high mobility features like Anti-Locking Braking System
> (ABS), Central Tyre Inflation System (CTIS), Auxiliary Gear box with High and low speed
> mode and differential locks system. The vehicle is operable normally in 12x8 mode and
> can be driven in 12x10 and 12x12 modes as per terrain requirements


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## Water Car Engineer

Oldman1 said:


> Does India have plans for stealth version that can be launch from smaller aircraft? Something like this?




No program for that type of cruise missile.














Projects that are on are relying on speed.

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## kaykay

Oldman1 said:


> Does India have plans for stealth version that can be launch from smaller aircraft? Something like this?


We have plan for super sonic long range cruise missiles in future but not sure if it will be stealth or not.( Hypersonic Brahmos mk2 is another development with Russia though it will be of short range).

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xE...Mk/Lw0ODttFnl8/s1600/Guess_Livefist_SLIDE.jpg

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## kadamba-warrior

Oldman1 said:


> That was the old Tomahawk, the newer versions have the same thing.



All the cruise missiles have to have an inlet and all of them have to obey same aerodynamic principles. That doesn't leave much for creativity and hence all the cruise missiles look *more or less *similar.

It is a different matter that an 'elite' idiot here refuses to believe out of his own bigoted view that India couldn't have possibly developed a cruise missile!


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## narcon

India test-fires nuclear-capable Nirbhay cruise missile - The Times of India







It had a dummy warhead...


----------



## SanjeevaniButi

RKO said:


> morning they said 14 waypoints bt 17???
> 
> 6 years for airforce version????? damn too much!!!



17 might include the target. The first production batch is going to arm the 15B Destroyer of IN which is expected to be out by 2018. 
The same canisters can be used to land based forces i.e. IA. 

IAF version will require the same amount of development that took place for making Brahmos airworthy. 6 years is a resonable time frame.


----------



## RKO

SanjeevaniButi said:


> 17 might include the target. The first production batch is going to arm the 15B Destroyer of IN which is expected to be out by 2018.
> The same canisters can be used to land based forces i.e. IA.
> 
> IAF version will require the same amount of development that took place for making Brahmos airworthy. 6 years is a resonable time frame.


there was no target interception in this test!! shivalik and Kolkata and all other newly inducted war ships can also carry nirbhay with little modifications (I think) 
yeah reasonable time...may be!!


----------



## HariPrasad

kaykay said:


> Any news about its total warhead carrying capacity?




It was 500 to 600 KG in 1st flight.


----------



## kaykay

SanjeevaniButi said:


> 17 might include the target. The first production batch is going to arm the 15B Destroyer of IN which is expected to be out by 2018.
> The same canisters can be used to land based forces i.e. IA.
> 
> IAF version will require the same amount of development that took place for making Brahmos airworthy. 6 years is a resonable time frame.


I guess submarine version is priority and thus submarines will see induction first. Heard it somewhere!!


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## narcon




----------



## bloo

RKO said:


> 6 years for airforce version????? damn too much!!!



Well this was only a single test, there will have to atleast 5 to 10 successful tests to actually induct it in more than one armed forces.
Imagine having it all capable like the tomahawk, i.e submarine launched, TEL launched, ship based VLS launched and air launched.
You can "trust" a system only when you have "verified" it, unlike some countries.


----------



## kaykay

HariPrasad said:


> It was 500 to 600 KG in 1st flight.


That is way too much!! Source?


----------



## RKO

kaykay said:


> That is way too much!! Source?


no... thats a reasonable weight!


----------



## Skull and Bones

RKO said:


> no... thats a reasonable weight!



Actually, it's quite on the heavier side.


----------



## SanjeevaniButi

HariPrasad said:


> It was 500 to 600 KG in 1st flight.



Nope, It was 350 kg. as reported by the Hindu.


----------



## thestringshredder

k7x said:


> *With 1500 km, in future it can be configured to drop a bomb and return to base, to be recovered and reused*.Nothing is impossible.
> We can at least reuse the turbofan and electronics.


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## PeacePlan

Then its more like a combat UAV


thestringshredder said:


>


----------



## Kinetic

k7x said:


> With 1500 km, in future it can be configured to drop a bomb and return to base, to be recovered and reused.Nothing is impossible.
> We can at least reuse the turbofan and electronics.
> 
> Only strength of cruise missile its low level flight. Making it diffixult to radar.Once identified, it can be taken out easily..
> 
> Unlike super or hypersonic cruise missiles these ones are slow.
> 
> DRDO has developed airships(blimps) with thermal sensors. These high altitude airships will identify the CM and counter measures will be implemented.
> 
> It would be foolish to think India is sitting duck for any CM.



India is developing a Mach 3.2 cruise missile with 1000 km range. It will be our main weapon for nuclear attack from aircrafts and submarines. 

Read the following thread... 

Stunning info about Indian's missile projects by Dr.Saraswat


----------



## RKO

Skull and Bones said:


> Actually, it's quite on the heavier side.


yeah sorry.... thought he was talking about missile weight which is 1500kg!! Later realized!!! yeah...war head weight is less than 400kg


----------



## Omega007

k7x said:


> With 1500 km, in future it can be configured to drop a bomb and return to base, to be recovered and reused.Nothing is impossible.
> We can at least reuse the turbofan and electronics.
> 
> Only strength of cruise missile its low level flight. Making it diffixult to radar.Once identified, it can be taken out easily..
> 
> Unlike super or hypersonic cruise missiles these ones are slow.
> 
> DRDO has developed airships(blimps) with thermal sensors. These high altitude airships will identify the CM and counter measures will be implemented.
> 
> It would be foolish to think India is sitting duck for any CM.



Not at all feasible.


----------



## sathya

SanjeevaniButi said:


> #FridayFury: India's subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay scores a Perfect 10 - News Oneindia
> 
> India on Friday added an inspiring chapter to her book on ‘Home-Grown Weapons', when its nuclear-capable, sub-sonic cruise missile Nirbhay scored a Perfect 10 during its launch from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) in Chandipur. The missile took off from the Launch Complex-3 of ITR at 10.05 am and successfully completed the mission parameters within an hour (11.02 am). Military sources confirm to OneIndia that the *missile is capable of flying as low as 5 meters and can attain a maximum height of 5 km.* Nirbhay gives Indian armed forces deep-strike capabilities and can be launched from land, ship and submarine. The missile is developed by Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), with over a dozen DRDO labs joining hands in the project. During Friday's launch, *Nirbhay travelled a total of 1050 kilometers and hit the designated target area with an accuracy of 5-6 meters, which is also known as CEP* (Circular Error Probable). Sources say that* with a seeker coming on board the missile during future launches, Nirbhay is expected to hit the target with offer an accuracy of 1-2 meters.* Hyderabad-based DRDO lab Research Centre Imarat (RCI) is engaged in the development of a desi seeker. The RCI also played a key role in Nirbhay's success by providing a redundant navigation system, control actuation system and battery. "_*The missile navigated through all the 17 way points*_," a top official said. Capturing Nirbhay's outing on video was a Jaguar deep-penetrating strike aircraft of the Indian Air Force. Thrilled DRDO Chief says more variants in the offing For DRDO Chief Dr Avinash Chander, Nirbhay's second outing was critical to ward off critics, who were waiting in the wing to pounce on him, with the first attempt of the missile (March 2013) being only partially successful. "Mission successful! We have done it. It's a great day for DRDO and missile scientists in India. We are now confident of attempting smarter versions of the missile. This will add new dimensions to our armed forces' capabilities," Dr Chander told OneIndia from the Block House in ITR. A visibly joyous DRDO chief went on to add that Nirbhay demonstrated the capabilities to carry heavy payload giving confidence to its makers. "We are now ready to add more teeth to the missile. We need to integrate the terminal guidance system to make the missile more lethal. It will be then capable of homing on to specific targets," Dr Chander said. Commenting ADE for finally making the missile follow their script right from the word go and till the pre-planned end-game near the safe zone (target area), Dr Avinash said that the lab will have its hands full for the next 10 years. "As I see it, ADE is currently on a well-chartered flight-path with a number of critical projects in their kitty. Our efforts will be now to *have Nirbhay indicted into the Navy within three years followed by the Army an year after that. The air force version should be out in the next six years*," the top missile scientist said. Ready for crucial briefing with Defence Minister: DRDO DG A top DRDO team led by Dr K Tamilmani, Director General (Aeronautical Systems) is expected to brief Defence Minister Arun Jaitley on Saturday (Oct 18) about Nirbhay. "We will be meeting the Defence Minister with the complete mission parameters Nirbhay has achieved. Integrating the missile was a huge challenge with multiple agencies being involved. We will be briefing the minister about the benefits Nirbhay will offer to the Services," Dr Tamilmani, who oversaw ADE's progress in developing the missile on a daily basis, said. The team is also expected to brief Jaitley about the possibilities Nirbhay will offer to all three Service wings. "It has been tough days for the Nirbhay team and everyone was under tremendous pressure. We stuck to our plans and never let the focus shift. *When you develop complex weapon platforms, it's unfair to call challenges as delays*," Dr Tamilmani said. A perfect Diwali gift, says ADE boss According to P Srikumar, Director of Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), Bangalore, Nirbhay performed more than what was expected. "It's a great achievement for all of us. Nirbhay was loaded with technology challenges and today one by one we demonstrated how we overcame them. *A submerged air intake, which is just a hole in the belly of the missile and deployment of folded wing into the flight configuration are two critical technological challenged we overcame in this project*. Deriving inspiration from today's successful launch, we are confident of building on the foundation thereby converting Nirbhay into an excellent missile system," Srikumar said. "*Most of the designers in all our partner labs are youngsters, whose confidence will grow in leaps and bounds with the successful launch of Nirbhay.* We have tapped the capabilities of over a dozen DRDO labs for this project. I couldn't have asked for a better Diwali gift," the ADE director said. Dr K G Narayanan, former ADE director said that the Nirbhay's success is the logical extension of the work in the field of unmanned systems such as Lakshya and Nishant. "Though I am not fully familiar of the technology used in Nirbhay, it is a great achievement by our scientists," Dr Narayanan said. More than satisfied; exciting days ahead: RCI Director Dr G Satheesh Reddy, DRDO's ‘missile magician' and RCI Director was probably one man who knew what a successful outing for the missile could do to his entire team. "We are more than happy and more than satisfied. We have more challenges ahead and my team of young scientists will right away get on to *our next mission of making Nirbhay, a smarter weapon *
> 
> Read more at: #FridayFury: India's subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay scores a Perfect 10 - News Oneindia




I was joking when NDTV source said 14 points were reached, that sooner some one will say another 10 points were reached, 


Seems that's happening....


 Until we hear from credible source , 11 way points ,it is...


----------



## Sardar Singh

@NiceGuy @Viet @Rechoice How about this new shiny beast in your inventory


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Sardar Singh said:


> @NiceGuy @Viet @Rechoice How about this new shiny beast in your inventory



India isnt binded by the MTC regime, but it wont look well on India if they export such a thing to other countries.

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## gambit

k7x said:


> With 1500 km, in future it can be configured to drop a bomb and return to base, to be recovered and reused.Nothing is impossible.
> We can at least reuse the turbofan and electronics.


Then you might as well design a new vehicle for that.

That 1500km range is one-way distance. Everything is designed, engineered, and finally constructed for that purpose. If you want the vehicle to have return to base (RTB) capability, you need to take recalculate fuel storage and consumption, which will effectively drop your max distance to below %50 of that 1500 km. How this vehicle fly is going to factor in as well. If you want terrain following and terrain avoidance (TFR/A), that will cost you fuel for maneuvering, now subtract at least another %5 of fuel.

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## zhanghang

India terrific.


----------



## Sardar Singh

Water Car Engineer said:


> India isnt binded by the MTC regime, but it wont look well on India if they export such a thing to other countries.


Don't tell me that you took my post seriously?


----------



## HariPrasad

SanjeevaniButi said:


> Nope, It was 350 kg. as reported by the Hindu.




Ok 

May be it depend on mission profile. Near the target lesser the fuel and higher the warhead.


----------



## HariPrasad

I would like to see those features of Brahmos to be added on Nirbhay such as double S maneuver, C maneuver, Steep dive etc. With GOM3 like cheap, Nirbhay can be even smarter. Can anyone discuss whether Nirbhay can cross Mach 1?


----------



## Rohit Patel

Hello forumers, can anyone tell me why does BhraMos have thrust rockets on it's tip (to make its flight path parallel wrt to earth as soon as it's fired) while the Nirbhay doesn't (it uses its main boosters for doing the same)?


----------



## bloo

* 2nd Test-Flight Of Nirbhay Strategic Cruise Missile A Total Success *

The nuclear-capable LACM yesterday had a flight-time lasting 80 minutes and cruised over a distance of 1,157km at a speed of Mach 0.7. Eight more test-flights now remain to be conducted prior to its entry-into-service with India’s Strategic Forces Command in ground-launched, submarine-launched and air-launched versions.
































TRISHUL: 2nd Test-Flight Of Nirbhay Strategic Cruise Missile A Total Success

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## HariPrasad

This bloody 1157 KM is awesome.


----------



## Bobby

Thanks to Modi's warning....DRDO keen to complete old projects


----------



## Bhasad Singh Mundi

gambit said:


> Then you might as well design a new vehicle for that.
> 
> That 1500km range is one-way distance. Everything is designed, engineered, and finally constructed for that purpose. If you want the vehicle to have return to base (RTB) capability, you need to take recalculate fuel storage and consumption, which will effectively drop your max distance to below %50 of that 1500 km. How this vehicle fly is going to factor in as well. If you want terrain following and terrain avoidance (TFR/A), that will cost you fuel for maneuvering, now subtract at least another %5 of fuel.



Actually, in this test, the missile did return to base after flying 300km.


----------



## Capt.Popeye

Rohit Patel said:


> Hello forumers, can anyone tell me why does BhraMos have thrust rockets on it's tip (to make its flight path parallel wrt to earth as soon as it's fired) while the Nirbhay doesn't (it uses its main boosters for doing the same)?



Nirbhay has flight control surfaces aka wings like an aircraft. That controls attitude and direction. Hence it flies like an airplane.
Brahmos flies like a missile(sic)/rocket because it does not have as developed/capable flight control surfaces. Attitude is then corrected/controlled by thrust/reaction rockets. In a nutshell.



Bhasad Singh Mundi said:


> Actually, in this test, the missile did return to base after flying 300km.



Not quite. Nirbhay flew out to approx 500 KM then looped back, made some evasive/loitering turns; then returned to approx 40KM from the launch-site to jettison/splash-down into the sea.


----------



## HariPrasad

Capt.Popeye said:


> Not quite. Nirbhay flew out to approx 500 KM then looped back, made some evasive/loitering turns; then returned to approx 40KM from the launch-site to jettison/splash-down into the sea.




This is bloody awesome.



gambit said:


> Then you might as well design a new vehicle for that.
> That 1500km range is one-way distance. Everything is designed, engineered, and finally constructed for that purpose. If you want the vehicle to have return to base (RTB) capability, you need to take recalculate fuel storage and consumption, which will effectively drop your max distance to below %50 of that 1500 km. How this vehicle fly is going to factor in as well. If you want terrain following and terrain avoidance (TFR/A), that will cost you fuel for maneuvering, now subtract at least another %5 of fuel.




This missile will give us an operational flexibility. Where it can deliver the laod and com back, it will come back . it will be a suicide mission else.


----------



## Bhasad Singh Mundi

Capt.Popeye said:


> Nirbhay has flight control surfaces aka wings like an aircraft. That controls attitude and direction. Hence it flies like an airplane.
> Brahmos flies like a missile(sic)/rocket because it does not have as developed/capable flight control surfaces. Attitude is then corrected/controlled by thrust/reaction rockets. In a nutshell.
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite. Nirbhay flew out to approx 500 KM then looped back, made some evasive/loitering turns; then returned to approx 40KM from the launch-site to jettison/splash-down into the sea.


My point was that it did return.

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## Juggernautjatt

HariPrasad said:


> This bloody 1157 KM is awesome.


According to an interview given to NDTV before launch DRDO chief Avinash Chander clearly said that range of Nirbhay is between 1000 - 1500 km.

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## HariPrasad

I eagerly await for Laghu shakti to be integrated in Nirbhay. Avinash chander said that it has a 1 to 2 m of accuracy. Earlier also saraswat had quoted sub meter accuracy.



Juggernautjatt said:


> According to an interview given to NDTV before launch DRDO chief Avinash Chander clearly said that range of Nirbhay is between 1000 - 1500 km.




Yes, It is a 1500 KM range missile and future verson to be developed for 3000 KM range. DRDO said that with the weight reduction and addition of some other features, it will become a smart weapon.


----------



## Omega007

HariPrasad said:


> This is bloody awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This missile will give us an operational flexibility. Where it can deliver the laod and com back, it will come back . it will be a suicide mission else.



No brother,it will simply complicate the things.A cruise missile,like any other missile is a one way vehicle and should remain so.If it had been feasible to develop a reusable missile,then other technologically more advanced nations would have done that already.If the leaders haven't done it,then I see no reason for India,which is taking its first steps in this field,to try something like that.It simply doesn't make any sense.

As for delivering an warhead is concerned,you can always develop an UCAV for that purpose,in fact India is already building one as we speak!!As for reusable cruise missiles,you can forget about that bro,it's not coming,rest assured.There is no need to sink our limited resources in such futile ventures.


----------



## ni8mare

HariPrasad said:


> This missile will give us an operational flexibility. Where it can deliver the laod and com back, it will come back . it will be a suicide mission else.


yeah and we call them as drones.......UCAV


----------



## Bhasad Singh Mundi

Rohit Patel said:


> Hello forumers, can anyone tell me why does BhraMos have thrust rockets on it's tip (to make its flight path parallel wrt to earth as soon as it's fired) while the Nirbhay doesn't (it uses its main boosters for doing the same)?



1) To remove the engine inlet cover cap when it is a vertical launch of canisterised version. 
2) like you said, it is also used to attain lo flight path in a given direction.

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## Capt.Popeye

Bhasad Singh Mundi said:


> My point was that it did return.



This time the route-map made it return to _the vicinity_, only for reasons of close monitoring........


----------



## Bhasad Singh Mundi

Capt.Popeye said:


> This time the route-map made it return to _the vicinity_, only for reasons of close monitoring........



close monitoring was done using a jaguar. DRDO can make this thing recoverable by using Nishant recovery tech and it might prove to be a highly cost effective unmanned radar evading system for short distance bombings.


----------



## Capt.Popeye

Bhasad Singh Mundi said:


> close monitoring was done using a jaguar. DRDO can make this thing recoverable by using Nishant recovery tech and it might prove to be a highly cost effective unmanned radar evading system for short distance bombings.



The Jaguar chase plane was _only one_ method of monitoring, there were others too. As for making it recoverable, that idea is quite meaningless, since that will impact both range and payload capabilities majorly. In any case, why on earth do you want it to return; is'nt it supposed to hit the enemy?

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## Bhasad Singh Mundi

Capt.Popeye said:


> The Jaguar chase plane was _only one_ method of monitoring, there were others too. As for making it recoverable, that idea is quite meaningless, since that will impact both range and payload capabilities majorly. In any case, why on earth do you want it to return; is'nt it supposed to hit the enemy?



For short range missions (300 KM) , a recoverable Nirbhay could prove to be a very cost effective system.


----------



## Capt.Popeye

Bhasad Singh Mundi said:


> For short range missions (300 KM) , a recoverable Nirbhay could prove to be a very cost effective system.



Just do pass that suggestion on to Avinash Chander.


----------



## Mirza Jatt

congrats !!


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## narcon

HariPrasad said:


> It was 500 to 600 KG in 1st flight.



I don't think so - Probably half that..


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## HariPrasad

narcon said:


> I don't think so - Probably half that..




OK



Bhasad Singh Mundi said:


> For short range missions (300 KM) , a recoverable Nirbhay could prove to be a very cost effective system.




No upto 500 Km or more.


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## HariPrasad

Kalam's dream of Reusable missile comes true.



ni8mare said:


> yeah and we call them as drones.......UCAV




Yes, in modern days the difference between UCAV and Nirbhay type of missile has almost vanished.


----------



## HariPrasad

Omega007 said:


> No brother,it will simply complicate the things.A cruise missile,like any other missile is a one way vehicle and should remain so.If it had been feasible to develop a reusable missile,then other technologically more advanced nations would have done that already.If the leaders haven't done it,then I see no reason for India,which is taking its first steps in this field,to try something like that.It simply doesn't make any sense.
> 
> As for delivering an warhead is concerned,you can always develop an UCAV for that purpose,in fact India is already building one as we speak!!As for reusable cruise missiles,you can forget about that bro,it's not coming,rest assured.There is no need to sink our limited resources in such futile ventures.




Hi Ommy, this is the dream project of DRDO and Kalam since a long time. We should build the capability . To use it or not depends on circumstances and outcome of test result.


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## ejaz007

*India Test Fires Nirbhay Cruise Missile*

*NEW DELHI* — India’s homemade subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay, capable of carrying a nuclear payload and considered similar to the US Tomahawk cruise missile, was test-fired for the second time Friday from the missile testing center in the eastern state of Odisha.

An official of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which developed the land attack missile, said the test met all required parameters.

Last year, during its maiden test fire, Nirbhay encountered problems with the inertial navigation system, forcing the mission to be aborted.

“Nirbhay will be a terrain-hugging missile capable of avoiding detection by ground-based radar with a range of 1,000 kilometers which will take off like a missile but then takes a cruise flight like an aircraft,” the DRDO official said.

Development of an air version of the Nirbhay has begun but the official provided no details. India wants to use Nirbhay from the air, land and even from submarines.

Nirbhay, which DRDO claims can cruise at the tree-top level, will complement the Indo-Russian BrahMos cruise missile, which has a range of 290 kilometers. No date has been fixed yet for induction of the missile.

In 2012, Pakistan test-fired the Babur cruise missile with a range of 700 kilometers. Defense analysts here say the development was aimed at India. Pakistan had claimed that Babur missile is homemade and is a low-flying, terrain-hugging missile with stealth features. ■

*Email: vraghuvanshi@defensenews.com.

India Test Fires Nirbhay Cruise Missile | Defense News | defensenews.com*


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## Zarvan

ejaz007 said:


> *India Test Fires Nirbhay Cruise Missile*
> 
> *NEW DELHI* — India’s homemade subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay, capable of carrying a nuclear payload and considered similar to the US Tomahawk cruise missile, was test-fired for the second time Friday from the missile testing center in the eastern state of Odisha.
> 
> An official of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which developed the land attack missile, said the test met all required parameters.
> 
> Last year, during its maiden test fire, Nirbhay encountered problems with the inertial navigation system, forcing the mission to be aborted.
> 
> “Nirbhay will be a terrain-hugging missile capable of avoiding detection by ground-based radar with a range of 1,000 kilometers which will take off like a missile but then takes a cruise flight like an aircraft,” the DRDO official said.
> 
> Development of an air version of the Nirbhay has begun but the official provided no details. India wants to use Nirbhay from the air, land and even from submarines.
> 
> Nirbhay, which DRDO claims can cruise at the tree-top level, will complement the Indo-Russian BrahMos cruise missile, which has a range of 290 kilometers. No date has been fixed yet for induction of the missile.
> 
> In 2012, Pakistan test-fired the Babur cruise missile with a range of 700 kilometers. Defense analysts here say the development was aimed at India. Pakistan had claimed that Babur missile is homemade and is a low-flying, terrain-hugging missile with stealth features. ■
> 
> *Email: vraghuvanshi@defensenews.com.
> 
> India Test Fires Nirbhay Cruise Missile | Defense News | defensenews.com*


Babur has been deployed now looking forward for longer range version


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## Omega007

HariPrasad said:


> Hi Ommy, this is the dream project of DRDO and Kalam since a long time. We should build the capability . To use it or not depends on circumstances and outcome of test result.



I know,but dream project or not it doesn't matter.What does matter for initiating a R&D is to first verify the necessity and moreover the feasibility of the end product,and more importantly whether the end user wants such a thing or not.In this case,it is totally unnecessary since that job can be easily done by an UCAV,heck that's the reason the UCAVs were developed at the first place.A reusable missile at this point of time seems to be totally unnecessary,heck I would dare say that this idea or dream,whatever you say is flawed in itself.So there is no need to sink our resources and time in this project thingy,whose dream it was doesn't matter at all.


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## RKO

HariPrasad said:


> Hi Ommy, this is the dream project of DRDO and Kalam since a long time. We should build the capability . To use it or not depends on circumstances and outcome of test result.


long range UCAV are way more better than reusable missile.... imagine lauching a missile and recovering it using a parachute(if it can use landing gear...then it wont be a missile at all) and refueling, placing it back in launcher and firing it again jst utter headache!!There is a reason why no country is pursing it!!!china, us working on hypersonic glide vehicle not missile and Drdo AVATAR is also not a missile its a hypersonic vehicle...and these vehicles only gud for long range missions!!


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## SanjeevaniButi

HariPrasad said:


> Ok
> 
> May be it depend on mission profile. Near the target lesser the fuel and higher the warhead.



You can do that for ballistic missiles but not for Cruise missiles. For Cruise missiles the flight control system determines the flight and one of the parameters is center of gravity (CG). The FC is designed to compensate for the shift in CG as the fuel decreases and control surfaces makes appropriate adjustments.

A increase in warhead weight by 100 to 200 k.g is significant variance in the CG, especially when the fuel runs out. It requires a completely recalibrated FCS. I doubt the missile is smart enough to do that. Maybe in the future when we have mastered Aura.

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## RKO

you are right indeed!!!! 
off topic:
I think you do really have anger management problem!!!


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## RKO

Zarvan said:


> Babur has been deployed now looking forward for longer range version


arey bhai.!!! you were sayin the same thing again n again....from the starting of this thread!!! you r not getting bored??? 0r you get paid to troll??


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## Gessler

Why pakistanis have to be so obsessed with a simple missile tested by India?


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## Wojtek

bfpl.pl

bhig.pl

inforbaza.pl


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## Gessler

According to Prasun Sengupta's latest article, the Nirbhay flew a distance of *1,157km* at a speed of 0.7 Mach.

TRISHUL: 2nd Test-Flight Of Nirbhay Strategic Cruise Missile A Total Success


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## Mike_Brando

Oldman1 said:


> Does India have plans for stealth version that can be launch from smaller aircraft? Something like this?


Sir,with all due respect,India simply doesn't have the technical know how to build a missile as advance as AGM-158.I mean,just look at us.We were finally successful in building up a sub-sonic missile nearly 30 years after the induction of the Tomahawk.So you can clearly see that there is a huge technological gap between us.Maybe DRDO will develop something like this in the next 20 years but right now it seems to be a far fetching idea as far as i am concerned.

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## Gessler

American members are saying Nirbhay is not a copy of Tomahawk while Pakistanis are yelling at the top of their voices that it's a copy. What are they trying to prove? Pitiful behavior - complete obsession & paranoia about India, just like Kissinger said.


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## Omega007

Mike_Brando said:


> Sir,with all due respect,India simply doesn't have the technical know how to build a missile as advance as AGM-158.I mean,just look at us.We were finally successful in building up a sub-sonic missile nearly 30 years after the induction of the Tomahawk.So you can clearly see that there is a huge technological gap between us.Maybe DRDO will develop something like this in the next 20 years but right now it seems to be a far fetching idea as far as i am concerned.



Well,you also have to remember that India started only recently,it's not like we started 30 years ago and have succeeded just now!!

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## Mike_Brando

Omega007 said:


> Well,you also have to remember that India started only recently,it's not like we started 30 years ago and have succeeded just now!!


Yeah brother i do know that.Believe me,i'll be the happiest person in the world if DRDO manages to develop something on the lines of the AGM-158 but we also have to face the reality here and the reality is that the Amercians are much more advanced in the field of Cruise missile tech at present.Maybe somewhere down the line we'll surely catch up to them but it'll take some time.In the mean time the best thing for us is to significantly increase the R&D budget of the DRDO and try to recruit the best technical minds from IITs.

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## ni8mare

Mike_Brando said:


> Yeah brother i do know that.Believe me,i'll be the happiest person in the world if DRDO manages to develop something on the lines of the AGM-158 but we also have to face the reality here and the reality is that the Amercians are much more advanced in the field of Cruise missile tech at present.Maybe somewhere down the line we'll surely catch up to them but it'll take some time.In the mean time the best thing for us is to significantly increase the R&D budget of the DRDO and try to recruit the best technical minds from IITs.


not impossible ........air version is 6 years away ..........i think it very much possible drdo will go in AGM-158 direction.......

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## shaheenmissile

why is that after spending years harping about Hype-Ultra-Bazunga sonic Brahmos Missile.
India "Lowers" her standards and make s measly Subsonic Cruise missile?


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## Bratva

shaheenmissile said:


> why is that after spending years harping about Hype-Ultra-Bazunga sonic Brahmos Missile.
> India "Lowers" her standards and make s measly Subsonic Cruise missile?



THe new Indian logic making rounds is. Due to economical reasons. Supersonic wala cost 5 million per piece and this sub sonic wala cause 1-1.5 million per piece


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## Water Car Engineer

Bratva said:


> THe new Indian logic making rounds is. Due to economical reasons. Supersonic wala cost 5 million per piece and this sub sonic wala cause 1-1.5 million per piece




It's also good to have diverse armaments for India's warship than just 300km Brahmos.

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## ashish1

shaheenmissile said:


> why is that after spending years harping about Hype-Ultra-Bazunga sonic Brahmos Missile.
> India "Lowers" her standards and make s measly Subsonic Cruise missile?


Because Nirbhay is cheaper than Brahmos and has more range.
Bw-Devlopment of Supersonic cruise missile of range similar to Nirbhay and Hypersonic missile Brahmos is also going on.So we are actually not lowering our standards.

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## Water Car Engineer

*Nirbhay X Band Seeker*

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## Kloitra

Bratva said:


> THe new Indian logic making rounds is. Due to economical reasons. Supersonic wala cost 5 million per piece and this sub sonic wala cause 1-1.5 million per piece


Range, cost, payload weight and variety, diversity of armament...


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## Omega007

Mike_Brando said:


> Yeah brother i do know that.Believe me,i'll be the happiest person in the world if DRDO manages to develop something on the lines of the AGM-158 but we also have to face the reality here and the reality is that the Amercians are much more advanced in the field of Cruise missile tech at present.Maybe somewhere down the line we'll surely catch up to them but it'll take some time.In the mean time the best thing for us is to significantly increase the R&D budget of the DRDO and try to recruit the best technical minds from IITs.



I didn't dispute that part brother,indeed the Americans are far far ahead of us in virtually each and every field,they are pinnacle of human civilization.My point is that,we are behind in the field of sub sonic cruise missile field because we started at a much later date.But that doesn't mean our system,the Nirbhay LACM in this is too far behind in capabilities compared to their AGM 109.

I mean for example,only the latest Blk IV of AGM 109 Tomahawk has a SAR seeker which potentially enables it to engage moving targets where as the Nirbhay will have this capability from the start.Besides,many nations relied upon turbojet engines to power their first subsonic missiles (some like Pakistanis are in fact still is using it) where as our system has a turbofan from the very start.We should not forget these facts too,don't you think bro??

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## Capt.Popeye

shaheenmissile said:


> why is that after spending years harping about Hype-Ultra-Bazunga sonic Brahmos Missile.
> India "Lowers" her standards and make s measly Subsonic Cruise missile?




You seem to be some-what "Defense Illiterate" inspite of being a member of a Defence Forum.
Both Missiles have different tasks hence have different capabilities; therefore fit different segments of the Arsenal.

Like the F-16 and JF-17s co-exist in the PAF.

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## bloo



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## Bratva

There was no mention of TERCOM and DSMAC being used in Nirbhay? Did I miss it or the test was with basic LRG based INS this time with support from IRNSS ?


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## shaheenmissile

Bratva said:


> There was no mention of TERCOM and DSMAC being used in Nirbhay? Did I miss it or the test was with basic LRG based INS this time with support from IRNSS ?


the test was conducted on sea surface for a reason. Right now the missile only has an altimeter to maintain a fixed altitude above the flat surface of the sea.
Last time they did try to fly it over some "complicated" land features and software malfunctioned and we all know where it ended? in a cashew nut plantation.
On the other hand all Babur tests were conducted on land,negotiating complex environment of flat terrain and mountains.

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## Vinod2070

shaheenmissile said:


> the test was conducted on sea surface for a reason. Right now the missile only has an altimeter to maintain a fixed altitude above the flat surface of the sea.
> Last time they did try to fly it over some "complicated" land features and software malfunctioned and we all know where it ended? in a cashew nut plantation.
> On the other hand all Babur tests were conducted on land,negotiating complex environment of flat terrain and mountains.



That is correct.

Pakistan always conducts all its missile tests over its cities. They are sure of the test's success on all parameters.

Wonder why?

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## Shadow_Hunter

Bratva said:


> THe new Indian logic making rounds is. Due to economical reasons. Supersonic wala cost 5 million per piece and this sub sonic wala cause 1-1.5 million per piece


This is the world logic, not Indian logic. Even US and dear China has both subsonic and supersonic cruise missiles. Since you cannot comprehend that you should keep your mouth shut.

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## Bratva

bloo said:


> * 2nd Test-Flight Of Nirbhay Strategic Cruise Missile A Total Success *
> 
> The nuclear-capable LACM yesterday had a flight-time lasting 80 minutes and cruised over a distance of 1,157km at a speed of Mach 0.7. Eight more test-flights now remain to be conducted prior to its entry-into-service with India’s Strategic Forces Command in ground-launched, submarine-launched and air-launched versions.





Water Car Engineer said:


> *Nirbhay X Band Seeker*



That is impossible to put this seeker in to Nirbhay as it is






To give you an idea, the seeker that is in Tomahwak, it consists of a Microprocessor and an Antenna.

That's the level of miniaturization you are looking for if you want to put seeker in to Nirbhay.

And I would put 2-3 years, it would take miniaturize the 50 KG seeker

Plus Also the enigne I'm hearing they used is Russian and Indian turbofan is not yet ready ?


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## ashish1

Shadow_Hunter said:


> This is the world logic, not Indian logic. Even US and dear China has both subsonic and supersonic cruise missiles. Since you cannot comprehend that you should keep your mouth shut.


Most of the Pakistanis have accepted that we are far ahead of them in missile technologoy just like most of the other fields but still few butthurts remain but nothing to worry they will also get in the line pretty soon.lol

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## shaheenmissile

Vinod2070 said:


> That is correct.
> 
> Pakistan always conducts all its missile tests over its cities. They are sure of the test's success on all parameters.
> 
> Wonder why?


Repeated cold testing of every individual component.
Not trying to be a hero by overly complicating the development and an ability to integrate and accept "off the shelf" products where available.

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## Bratva

ashish1 said:


> Most of the Pakistanis have accepted that we are far ahead of them in missile technologoy just like most of the other fields but still few butthurts remain but nothing to worry they will also get in the line pretty soon.lol



LOL



Vinod2070 said:


> That is correct.
> 
> Pakistan always conducts all its missile tests over its cities. They are sure of the test's success on all parameters.
> 
> Wonder why?



Another way to look at it, because we are smarter than you ?


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## Bhasad Singh Mundi

shaheenmissile said:


> Repeated cold testing of every individual component.
> Not trying to be a hero by overly complicating the development and an ability to integrate and accept "off the shelf" products where available.


Wah!! Brilliant methodology!!

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## The Great One

Bratva said:


> THe new Indian logic making rounds is. Due to economical reasons. Supersonic wala cost 5 million per piece and this sub sonic wala cause 1-1.5 million per piece


BrahMos range >>> 300 to 600 km.
Nirbhay range >>> 1000 to 1500 km.


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## Bratva

Shadow_Hunter said:


> This is the world logic, not Indian logic. Even US and dear China has both subsonic and supersonic cruise missiles. Since you cannot comprehend that you should keep your mouth shut.





The Great One said:


> BrahMos range >>> 300 to 600 km.
> Nirbhay range >>> 1000 to 1500 km.



Epic fail is both of you brain dead indians didn't notice the Sarcasm in my post.

Do you understand, in Past indians used to make an argument we don't need sub-sonic missile ? I'm talking about 2005-2008 era when babur first came out and Indians were like we could shot it with our Akash SAM easily ?


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## The Great One

Bratva said:


> Epic fail is both of you brain dead indians didn't notice the Sarcasm in my post.
> 
> Do you understand, in Past indians used to make an argument we don't need sub-sonic missile ? I'm talking about 2005-2008 era when babur first came out and Indians were like we could shot it with our Akash SAM easily ?


Against Pakistan we don't. 300km to 600km range of BrahMos is sufficient. 

And if that was what you call sarcasm, then all one can do is

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## shaheenmissile

The Great One said:


> Against Pakistan we don't. 300km to 600km range of BrahMos is sufficient.
> 
> And if that was what you call sarcasm, then all one can do is


Brahmos does not go anywhere above 300Km.
where did you get 600km figure?


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## ni8mare

shaheenmissile said:


> Brahmos does not go anywhere above 300Km.
> where did you get 600km figure?


it can in HI-HI cong........
Stunning info about Indian's missile projects by Dr.Saraswat

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## Shadow_Hunter

Bratva said:


> Epic fail is both of you brain dead indians didn't notice the Sarcasm in my post.
> 
> Do you understand, in Past indians used to make an argument we don't need sub-sonic missile ? I'm talking about 2005-2008 era when babur first came out and Indians were like we could shot it with our Akash SAM easily ?


And so we can shoot it. Brahmos is more than enough for Pakistanis. Nirbhay is being built for deeper strikes into China which cannot be reached by Brahmos. Pakistan no longer figures in our R&D programs, their tech is too obsolete for us to worry.



shaheenmissile said:


> Brahmos does not go anywhere above 300Km.
> where did you get 600km figure?


Another Pakistani specimen. There is a separate thread on this forum itself where Saraswat clearly mentions Brahmos going 600 KM in hi-hi trajectory. Read it before showing your ignorance here.

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## Vinod2070

shaheenmissile said:


> Repeated cold testing of every individual component.
> Not trying to be a hero by overly complicating the development and an ability to integrate and accept "off the shelf" products where available.



The only "off the shelf" product that is available in the market for missiles is paint. So yes, in a way you are right.



Bratva said:


> Another way to look at it, because we are smarter than you ?



It is evident in every field of human endeavor.

In fact it is strange for us that you still try to compare yourself to us. We are in a different league as far as we are concerned.

Pakistan still can't do what we achieved in the 1970s and 1980s.

Musharraf has himself admitted in his book about how the North Korean (and Chinese) missiles were repainted and rebranded. Anyway, I have no interest frankly in any Indo-Pak comparison on any issue. You are now firmly part of Af-Pak, the land of all your heroes.

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## Capt.Popeye

shaheenmissile said:


> Brahmos does not go anywhere above 300Km.
> where did you get 600km figure?



Did you really get taken in by that _'kahaani'_? 
That figure was neatly meant for the MTCR....actually it was perfectly declared as 290 KM not even 300KM

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## Vinod2070

Capt.Popeye said:


> Did you really get taken in by that _'kahaani'_?
> That figure was neatly meant for the MTCR....actually it was perfectly declared as 290 KM not even 300KM



It has to really follow a very sub-optimal trajectory (and have an excessively heavy warhead) to hit the 290 KM range.


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## shaheenmissile

Capt.Popeye said:


> Did you really get taken in by that _'kahaani'_?
> That figure was neatly meant for the MTCR....actually it was perfectly declared as 290 KM not even 300KM


Exactly and it is a Private enterprise not government and the missile is meant for export market so the figures of 290-300 Km look perfectly legit.


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## Vinod2070

A missile can have a range of "ranges" depending on the warhead weight and the trajectory chosen.

290 KM is "a range", not the maximum range.

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## bloo

Bratva said:


> That is impossible to put this seeker in to Nirbhay as it is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To give you an idea, the seeker that is in Tomahwak, it consists of a Microprocessor and an Antenna.
> 
> That's the level of miniaturization you are looking for if you want to put seeker in to Nirbhay.
> 
> And I would put 2-3 years, it would take miniaturize the 50 KG seeker
> 
> Plus Also the enigne I'm hearing they used is Russian and Indian turbofan is not yet ready ?




Untrue. You are judging the book by its picture.




The Agat 9E420 monopulse semiactive radar on board the Buk missile measures 310mm in diameter and weighs 32-kg, it is perfectly proportionate for the 690kg missile, judging accordingly a 50kg monopulse radar on board the 1000kg Nirbhay is safe to say fairly miniaturised.
Regardless of how miniaturised the seeker onboard Tomahawk is, it'll still have the antenna around the same size as the one in the pic I posted earlier.
Now if you were talking about a camera based IR seeker, no Nirbhay doesn't have it yet and yes it would definitely be far lighter than a monopulse radar.

Earlier there was a report of a turbofan engine that is developed for Nirbhay.





Until further updates we don't really know if this engine is being used in Nirbhay or a Russian one.

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## The Deterrent

Vinod2070 said:


> That is correct.
> 
> Pakistan always conducts all its missile tests over its cities. They are sure of the test's success on all parameters.
> 
> Wonder why?



Do you even know where our test range is?


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## Shadow_Hunter

The Deterrent said:


> Do you even know where our test range is?


Sonmiani, Karachi


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## halfilhal

Bratva said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Another way to look at it, because we are smarter than you ?



Your statement makes total sense. Look at your country. Smartness personified. I think it is the case of Pakistanis being too smart for themselves.

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## The Deterrent

Shadow_Hunter said:


> Sonmiani, Karachi


Near it, but correct, mind telling @Vinod2070 that it is a coastal facility?
Thank you.


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## Shadow_Hunter

The Deterrent said:


> Near it, but correct, mind telling @Vinod2070 that it is a coastal facility?
> Thank you.


Actually he was replying to a Pakistani poster who claimed that Pakistanis always tested missiles over land. So you are only proving that Vinod is right by saying that it is a coastal facility.

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## The Deterrent

Shadow_Hunter said:


> Actually he was replying to a Pakistani poster who claimed that Pakistanis always tested missiles over land. So you are only proving that Vinod is right by saying that it is a coastal facility.


No, he said that about Babur only, which has been tested from the same facility over Baluchistan's barren regions.


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## Vinod2070

The Deterrent said:


> No, he said that about Babur only, which has been tested from the same facility over Baluchistan's barren regions.



I didn't say this about Babur. This is something that was common for all those North Korean Nodong and Chinese M series missiles that were "tested" by flying over Pakistani cities and always "passed all tests".

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## Kloitra

The Deterrent said:


> No, he said that about Babur only, which has been tested from the same facility over *Baluchistan's barren regions*.


Indian army test-fires BrahMos missile in Rajasthan's Pokhran Desert - News
India regularly tests missiles over uninhibited regions. Big deal. What @Vinod2070 replied to was a brag from a Pakistani member that India only tests over water, as if Pakistan tests over cities.

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## Green Angel

Nirbhay travels 0.7 mACH Only.


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## Kloitra

Green Angel said:


> Nirbhay travels 0.7 mACH Only.


Ever heard of the terms subsonic, turbofan, cruise missile, Tomahawk, Babur, No-dong, M series etc?

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## ashish1

Green Angel said:


> Nirbhay travels 0.7 mACH Only.


Indeed and that is why it is called as subsonic missile.Any reason for posting something which everyone already knew??


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## Capt.Popeye

shaheenmissile said:


> Exactly and it is a Private enterprise not government and the missile is meant for export market so the figures of 290-300 Km look perfectly legit.



LOLLL, there is nothing private at all about Brahmos Aerospace. It is owned by Govt. of India and is a DPSU (Defence Public Sector Undertaking) under Ministry of Defence Production which is part of the MoD. Every single employee is an employee of the GoI.

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## The Deterrent

Vinod2070 said:


> I didn't say this about Babur. This is something that was common for all those North Korean Nodong and Chinese M series missiles that were "tested" by flying over Pakistani cities and always "passed all tests".


I was referring to what @shaheenmissile said, not you.
We all know about Nodongs and M-11s, I wasn't talking about them. Anyways, got your point. Cheers.


Kloitra said:


> Indian army test-fires BrahMos missile in Rajasthan's Pokhran Desert - News
> India regularly tests missiles over uninhibited regions. Big deal. What @Vinod2070 replied to was a brag from a Pakistani member that India only tests over water, as if Pakistan tests over cities.


He referred to Nirbhay's recent test (vs. Babur's tests, questioning use of TERCOM), not all missiles.
Got your point too, regards.

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## shaheenmissile

Kloitra said:


> Indian army test-fires BrahMos missile in Rajasthan's Pokhran Desert - News
> India regularly tests missiles over uninhibited regions. Big deal. What @Vinod2070 replied to was a brag from a Pakistani member that India only tests over water, as if Pakistan tests over cities.


Again...we all know that Rajisthan and Pokhran are pretty flat terrain,TERCOM is not needed and doesnt even work in such terrain.
On the other hand we can see Pakistan's Raad flying in valleys and over mountains where Tercom can work and is needed









Capt.Popeye said:


> LOLLL, there is nothing private at all about Brahmos Aerospace. It is owned by Govt. of India and is a DPSU (Defence Public Sector Undertaking) under Ministry of Defence Production which is part of the MoD. Every single employee is an employee of the GoI.


Theier website says otherwise
Joint Venture - BrahMos.com
49% Rusian owned 51% Indian.
Such joint international corporates don't break international laws of Missile control.

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## Capt.Popeye

shaheenmissile said:


> Theier website says otherwise
> Joint Venture - BrahMos.com
> 49% Rusian owned 51% Indian.
> Such joint international corporates don't break international laws of Missile control.



Of course they don't ........... (on paper)  Since this Corporate is run by Mother Theresa!
And they will never........ (again on paper). Therefore the neat figure of 290 KM will remain unchanged (again on.....)
The export missiles will rigorously conform to that number.
The ones for use at home.........ummmm  (Which is what the previous SA to RM let out)
Of course you are welcome to believe whatever you wish to.

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## shaheenmissile

Capt.Popeye said:


> Of course they don't ........... (on paper)  Since this Corporate is run by Mother Theresa!
> And they will never........ (again on paper). Therefore the neat figure of 290 KM will remain unchanged (again on.....)
> The export missiles will rigorously conform to that number.
> The ones for use at home.........ummmm  (Which is what the previous SA to RM let out)
> Of course you are welcome to believe whatever you wish to.


Yakhont with same mother company NPO Mashinostroyeniya as Brahmos. With exact same physical specs have 290-300 Km range.
May be India has some magic potient which Russians dont. If so then why bother involving Russians and the exact same company which makes P-800?
Why not do it on your own?


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## Kloitra

shaheenmissile said:


> Again...we all know that Rajisthan and Pokhran are pretty flat terrain,TERCOM is not needed and doesnt even work in such terrain.
> On the other hand we can see Pakistan's Raad flying in valleys and over mountains where Tercom can work and is needed


How many first flight tests you have done with tercom? Besides, you don't even need an actual terrain to test terrain hugging ability.




> Theier website says otherwise
> Joint Venture - BrahMos.com
> 49% Rusian owned 51% Indian.
> Such joint international corporates don't break international laws of Missile control.



The 290 km range is for hi-low profile, with a specific (maximum) load. A hi-hi profile can change the range drastically. This has been confirmed by ex-DRDO chief.

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## Bratva

Further Augmenting shaheen missile argument. He raised an important point. Inherent weakness of TERCOM was exposed in First gulf war, When missile couldn't differentiate the flat desert land. America had to re route the missiles through kurdish Mountainous region and a similar case occured in second gulf war as well. Nobody gave me an answer about engine and navigation. I would assume it was tested without TERCOM adn DSMAC and engine was of russian origin

first test of Nirbhay is pretty similar to Babur where it was tested without DSMAC and TERCOM.

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## ni8mare

shaheenmissile said:


> Yakhont with same mother company NPO Mashinostroyeniya as Brahmos. With exact same physical specs have 290-300 Km range.
> May be India has some magic potient which Russians dont. If so then why bother involving Russians and the exact same company which makes P-800?
> Why not do it on your own?


India Modifies Brahmos Missile With New Nav System | Military & Intelligence | RIA Novosti
capable of hitting targets over 180-300 miles (300-500 km)

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## Bratva

Kloitra said:


> *How many first flight tests you have done with tercom? Besides, you don't even need an actual terrain to test terrain hugging ability.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 290 km range is for hi-low profile, with a specific (maximum) load. A hi-hi profile can change the range drastically. This has been confirmed by ex-DRDO chief.



Babur first Test flight with TERCOM and DSMAC occured in March 2006. Ra'ad was tested in 2009. Since tercom and dsmac was developed by then, it had both features from the get go

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## shaheenmissile

Kloitra said:


> How many first flight tests you have done with tercom? Besides, you don't even need an actual terrain to test terrain hugging ability.


You are confusing a simple Radar Altimeter as used by Nirbhay and a full fledged TERCOM which is not just terrain hugging but a navigation system.
Try reading about why Americans fired Tomahawk over Iranian Zagros Mountains instead of firing it over Flat Iraqi deserts , in the Gulf wars.






Kloitra said:


> The 290 km range is for hi-low profile, with a specific (maximum) load. A hi-hi profile can change the range drastically. This has been confirmed by ex-DRDO chief.


Ok that makes some sense,although no official confirmation.

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## Bratva

bloo said:


> Untrue. You are judging the book by its picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Agat 9E420 monopulse semiactive radar on board the Buk missile measures 310mm in diameter and weighs 32-kg, it is perfectly proportionate for the 690kg missile, judging accordingly a 50kg monopulse radar on board the 1000kg Nirbhay is safe to say fairly miniaturised.
> Regardless of how miniaturised the seeker onboard Tomahawk is, it'll still have the antenna  around the same size as the one in the pic I posted earlier.
> Now if you were talking about a camera based IR seeker, no Nirbhay doesn't have it yet and yes it would definitely be far lighter than a monopulse radar.
> 
> Earlier there was a report of a turbofan engine that is developed for Nirbhay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until further updates we don't really know if this engine is being used in Nirbhay or a Russian one.




The point of Tomahawk internal diagram was to show there is no place to put a device the size of Indian seeker. That's why Seeker CPU (the device behind the antenna) to be miniaturized up to a microprocessor size where it can be accommodated on to small chip board.

You comparison was wrong from the start, Are BUK Missile system using three navigation systems like Cruise missile had to use? INS,TERCOM and DSMAC ?

Would you mind telling me, where exactly would you put the seeker CPU when bulk of space would be taken by TERCOM, DSMAC(with cameras) and SAT receiver?


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## Capt.Popeye

shaheenmissile said:


> Yakhont with same mother company NPO Mashinostroyeniya as Brahmos. With exact same physical specs have 290-300 Km range.
> May be India has some magic potient which Russians dont. If so then why bother involving Russians and the exact same company which makes P-800?
> Why not do it on your own?




HeHeHeHe; I really do commend your persistence. 
The Russians came in for the initial design phase. Now the project has moved much beyond that. The momentum has been gathered, many things are now on a different trajectory, to use that metaphor. 
BTW, why don't you view the video that some here have already mentioned in answer to you? And which even AhaseebA has referred to in earlier post/s. It will help you digest some facts.

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## Kloitra

Bratva said:


> Babur first Test flight with TERCOM and DSMAC occured in March 2006. Ra'ad was tested in 2009. Since tercom and dsmac was developed by then, it had both features from the get go





shaheenmissile said:


> You are confusing a simple Radar Altimeter as used by Nirbhay and a full fledged TERCOM which is not just terrain hugging but a navigation system.
> Try reading about why Americans fired Tomahawk over Iranian Zagros Mountains instead of firing it over Flat Iraqi deserts , in the Gulf wars.
> Ok that makes some sense,although no official confirmation.



My mistake, when you said tercom, I assumed terrain hugging flight profile and not the navigational system. I am assuming that first tests are relatively simple, you gradually increase the complexity of flight path. Or is it that the first flight test was conducted WITH terrain hugging, over some mountainous region?

From what I know there was no system (radar altimeter) installed in Nirbhay test to allow TERCOM profile.


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## Bratva

Kloitra said:


> My mistake, when you said tercom, I assumed terrain hugging flight profile and not the navigational system. I am assuming that first tests are relatively simple, you gradually increase the complexity of flight path. Or is it that the first flight test was conducted WITH terrain hugging, over some mountainous region?
> 
> From what I know there was no system (radar altimeter) installed in Nirbhay test to allow TERCOM profile.



If one has to assume, your first test flight was failed due to the very same reason you became ambitious and tried to test TERCOM navigation system from the get go. Obviously, the second test flight is much simpler until glitches from Tercom are removed and tercom made perfected

First test flight validates, Inertial navigation system Propulsion, engine and other systems are working okay up to the full range. You don't test terrain hugging over mountainous region in the very first test.

It usually occurs in second or third test.

That's how Our Babur progressed. It took second test to validate Tercom in 2006 and third to validat DSMAC in 2007

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## manojb

Bratva said:


> If one has to assume, your first test flight was failed due to the very same reason you became ambitious and tried to test TERCOM navigation system from the get go. Obviously, the second test flight is much simpler until glitches from Tercom are removed and tercom made perfected
> 
> First test flight validates, Inertial navigation system Propulsion, engine and other systems are working okay up to the full range. You don't test terrain hugging over mountainous region in the very first test.
> 
> It usually occurs in second or third test.
> 
> That's how Our Babur progressed. It took second test to validate Tercom in 2006 and third to validat DSMAC in 2007


I think you r assuming or should I say day dreaming too much. and underestimating drdo too much for your own convinience.

Lot of keyboard analyst . Not even came close to a missile development.

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## Bratva

manojb said:


> I think you r assuming or should I say day dreaming too much. and underestimating drdo too much for your own convinience.
> 
> Lot of keyboard analyst . Not even came close to a missile development.



Don't quote me again with such idiotic rants when you can't deliver a sensible reply. 

And for being keyboard analyst, Please enlighten me then did DRDO used tercom and dsmac in this test ?

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## shaheenmissile

manojb said:


> I think you r assuming or should I say day dreaming too much. and underestimating drdo too much for your own convinience.
> 
> Lot of keyboard analyst . Not even came close to a missile development.


the one thing we know about DRDO is that they are obsessed with complicating simple tasks to create hype and bravado.
Exact opposite in Pakistan,we keep it simple. thats why done things years ago which Bharat is trying to do now.

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## bloo

Bratva said:


> The point of Tomahawk internal diagram was to show there is no place to put a device the size of Indian seeker. That's why Seeker CPU (the device behind the antenna) to be miniaturized up to a microprocessor size where it can be accommodated on to small chip board.
> 
> You comparison was wrong from the start, Are BUK Missile system using three navigation systems like Cruise missile had to use? INS,TERCOM and DSMAC ?
> 
> Would you mind telling me, where exactly would you put the seeker CPU when bulk of space would be taken by TERCOM, DSMAC(with cameras) and SAT receiver?



Its very hard to judge from the picture itself how miniaturized it is or will be, btw I did post the picture of the miniaturised gyro, ins, rlg and the mcpu.
You are judging on the basis of pure assumption that the antenna itself is huge(which only looks like that coz of the holding stand behind it) and if size you think is an issue then the diameter of the antenna is even smaller than that of Buk's, so again I don't believe miniaturizing is quite the problem
Nirbhay is not a small missile you see.




My comparison was not wrong as I was talking about the antenna and Tomahawk's nosecone has the radar while the aft section has the DSMAC and the GEU, I believe the picture you posted itself tells us so.
And as I said the antenna though 50kgs is smaller in size than the buk's. So again miniaturizing is not a problem in my opinion.


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## Bratva

bloo said:


> Its very hard to judge from the picture itself how miniaturized it is or will be, btw I did post the picture of the miniaturised gyro, ins, rlg and the mcpu.
> You are judging on the basis of pure assumption that the antenna itself is huge(which only looks like that coz of the holding stand behind it) and if size you think is an issue then the diameter of the antenna is even smaller than that of Buk's, so again I don't believe miniaturizing is quite the problem
> Nirbhay is not a small missile you see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My comparison was not wrong as I was talking about the antenna and Tomahawk's nosecone has the radar while the aft section has the DSMAC and the GEU, I believe the picture you posted itself tells us so.
> And as I said the antenna though 50kgs is smaller in size than the buk's. So again miniaturizing is not a problem in my opinion.




I'm not talking about the antenna, re-read my post once again. I'm talking about the stuff behind the antenaa


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## Water Car Engineer

This is the same seeker. This is on Brahmos.

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## Shadow_Hunter

Bratva said:


> Babur first Test flight with TERCOM and DSMAC occured in March 2006. Ra'ad was tested in 2009. Since tercom and dsmac was developed by then, it had both features from the get go


So by that logic Brahmos has both Tercom and DSMAC, so Nirbhay has both these systems from the get go.

If you want to assume that it was tested without Tercom and DSMAC, your wish. You can only bring a horse to the water, you cannot make it drink it.

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## Bratva

Shadow_Hunter said:


> So by that logic Brahmos has both Tercom and DSMAC, so Nirbhay has both these systems from the get go.
> 
> If you want to assume that it was tested without Tercom and DSMAC, your wish. You can only bring a horse to the water, you cannot make it drink it.



So do you have any proof or a report which says it was tested with TERCOM and DSMAC?

And btw do you even know What Tercom and DSMAC is used for? And Does Brahmos goes in to Terrain Hugging mode? If yes than there is a logical explanation it requires TERCOM and DSMAC, If not then why are you wasting tercom in Brahmos when it didnt even go in to terrain huggin ?

If Yes then you would not have posted this gibberish

If not, then I advise you to read some material and difference b/w Sub-sonic and Super-Sonic cruise missiles and Why super sonic cruise missiles don;t need terrain hugging and Why Sub sonic needs terrain hugging and to achieve terrain hugging which navigation is used for it.


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## bloo

Bratva said:


> I'm not talking about the antenna, re-read my post once again. I'm talking about the stuff behind the antenaa



I know what you are talking about I'm telling you that's not an issue, as I ALREADY posted the pics of the miniaturized equipment that'll be used in Nirbhay. You talked about the microprocessor and the antenna, which AGAIN THE PICTURES AND INFO ARE ALREADY there, which are minaturised.

You are basically assuming its impossible because it LOOKS BIG. Its basically joining the subsystems that remains, miniaturizing is not an issue or is probably done as of now.

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## Bratva

bloo said:


> I know what you are talking about I'm telling you that's not an issue, as I ALREADY posted the pics of the miniaturized equipment that'll be used in Nirbhay. You talked about the microprocessor and the antenna, which AGAIN THE PICTURES AND INFO ARE ALREADY there, which are minaturised.
> 
> You are basically assuming its impossible because it LOOKS BIG. Its basically joining the subsystems that remains, miniaturizing is not an issue or is probably done as of now.



, My assumptions are based on the Block IV tomahwk seeker program. The time it takes them to test the seeker to operationalizing it is two years 2013-2015. Here read some links of their testing procedure and timeframe of operationalizing the seeker

Navy Weighs Speeding up Tomahawk Modernization | DoD Buzz

Raytheon Testing New Seeker For Tomahawk | Defense Daily Network

Raytheon Company : Investor Relations : News Release

Despite having an active seeker, My assumptions is it would take india atleast 2 years if it wants to put and operationalize the seeker. So what I'm seeing is a 5-7 year of development cycle of Nirbhay.

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## Shadow_Hunter

Bratva said:


> So do you have any proof or a report which says it was tested with TERCOM and DSMAC?


Do you have any proof or report which says that Raad test of 2009 used Tercom?


> And btw do you even know What Tercom and DSMAC is used for?


Yes I know about it abundantly, its you who needs to read kid.



> And Does Brahmos goes in to Terrain Hugging mode


Yes it does you moron, google for links, so your stupid claim of supersonic missiles not requiring Terrain hugging falls on its ***. Since it requires Tercom and DSMAC, it came with these systems, and by you using your logic about Babur and Raad, it can also be assumed that Nirbhay was tested with Tercom and DSMAC. So stop posting gibberish and actually learning something for once.

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## kaku1

Bratva said:


> Further Augmenting shaheen missile argument. He raised an important point. Inherent weakness of TERCOM was exposed in First gulf war, When missile couldn't differentiate the flat desert land. America had to re route the missiles through kurdish Mountainous region and a similar case occured in second gulf war as well. Nobody gave me an answer about engine and navigation. I would assume it was tested without TERCOM adn DSMAC and engine was of russian origin
> 
> first test of Nirbhay is pretty similar to Babur where it was tested without DSMAC and TERCOM.



Coming to question- The engine is Indian made






And in a reply about TERCOM from Prasun Sengupta is this

"*Coming to TERCOM & DCMAC application, the sensor used is an RF-based sensor, not IR & that’s why one never sees an IR aperture-mounting on the noses of such cruise missiles. Only those missiles with man-in-the-loop guidance like Taurus KEPD-350, Delilah, Popeye & Spice-1000/2000 have visible IR apertures mounted on the nose.*"

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## Bratva

@bloo


> Raytheon is planning an active seeker test with the new processor inside a Tomahawk nosecone early next year



Appaently the active seeker is fitted in the nosecon of tomahawk. Are you certain yours seeker can be fitted in to nose ?



Shadow_Hunter said:


> Do you have any proof or report which says that Raad test of 2009 used Tercom?
> 
> Yes I know about it abundantly, its you who needs to read kid.
> 
> 
> Yes it does you moron, google for links, so your stupid claim of supersonic missiles not requiring Terrain hugging falls on its ***. Since it requires Tercom and DSMAC, it came with these systems, and by you using your logic about Babur and Raad, it can also be assumed that Nirbhay was tested with Tercom and DSMAC. So stop posting gibberish and actually learning something for once.



Don't you have manners to debate propelry?

Prove it with proper links that Brahmos uses tercom and DSMAC sans that BS trishul blog.



Shadow_Hunter said:


> Do you have any proof or report which says that Raad test of 2009 used Tercom?
> 
> Yes I know about it abundantly, its you who needs to read kid.
> 
> 
> Yes it does you moron, google for links, so your stupid claim of supersonic missiles not requiring Terrain hugging falls on its ***. Since it requires Tercom and DSMAC, it came with these systems, and by you using your logic about Babur and Raad, it can also be assumed that Nirbhay was tested with Tercom and DSMAC. So stop posting gibberish and actually learning something for once.



Yes, Our Official ISPR notification which says it used TERCOM and DSMAC. I hope you can show me the Official notification where it says Nirbhay used those nav



Shadow_Hunter said:


> Do you have any proof or report which says that Raad test of 2009 used Tercom?
> 
> Yes I know about it abundantly, its you who needs to read kid.
> 
> 
> Yes it does you moron, google for links, so your stupid claim of supersonic missiles not requiring Terrain hugging falls on its ***. Since it requires Tercom and DSMAC, it came with these systems, and by you using your logic about Babur and Raad, it can also be assumed that Nirbhay was tested with Tercom and DSMAC. So stop posting gibberish and actually learning something for once.



So is there any official notification which said TERCOM, DSMAC was used by Nirbhay?



kaku1 said:


> Coming to question- The engine is Indian made
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And in a reply about TERCOM from Prasun Sengupta is this
> 
> "*Coming to TERCOM & DCMAC application, the sensor used is an RF-based sensor, not IR & that’s why one never sees an IR aperture-mounting on the noses of such cruise missiles. Only those missiles with man-in-the-loop guidance like Taurus KEPD-350, Delilah, Popeye & Spice-1000/2000 have visible IR apertures mounted on the nose.*"




Brahmos Land attack version does uses Tercom. Let's see When nirbhay would use it.

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## bloo

Bratva said:


> , My assumptions are based on the Block IV tomahwk seeker program. The time it takes them to test the seeker to operationalizing it is two years 2013-2015. Here read some links of their testing procedure and timeframe of operationalizing the seeker
> 
> Navy Weighs Speeding up Tomahawk Modernization | DoD Buzz
> 
> Raytheon Testing New Seeker For Tomahawk | Defense Daily Network
> 
> Raytheon Company : Investor Relations : News Release
> 
> Despite having an active seeker, My assumptions is it would take india atleast 2 years if it wants to put and operationalize the seeker. So what I'm seeing is a 5-7 year of development cycle of Nirbhay.



I think you are underestimating DRDO a bit too much,they may suck at almost everything else but missiles are something they don't suck at.
There is no use comparing Tomahawk to Nirbhay. The Americans are too far off, Raytheon seekers are very advanced, using both active and passive. India will hardly go for that, maybe in the subsequent mark versions but as of now 2016-17 being the goal does not look unrealistic.



Bratva said:


> @bloo
> 
> Appaently the active seeker is fitted in the nosecon of tomahawk. Are you certain yours seeker can be fitted in to nose ?



Why not?
The diameter of Nirbhay is around .52m and the micro strip patch was around 235mm so yes.

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## kaku1

Bratva said:


> @bloo
> 
> Appaently the active seeker is fitted in the nosecon of tomahawk. Are you certain yours seeker can be fitted in to nose ?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you have manners to debate propelry?
> 
> Prove it with proper links that Brahmos uses tercom and DSMAC sans that BS trishul blog.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Our Official ISPR notification which says it used TERCOM and DSMAC. I hope you can show me the Official notification where it says Nirbhay used those nav
> 
> 
> 
> I guess jokr is on you who doesnt even know what is inside Brahmos.I guess this time, you need to learn more about your own missile navigation
> 
> Missile System - BrahMos.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trishul is a BS source. In all the official Indian and Russian sources, there is not a single mention of TERCOM and DSMAC being used by Brahmos and Infect you could search it on google, Not a single Supersonic missile uses Tercom and DSMAC



Bro, Prasun Senhupta is the only one who researched most about the Indian missile and internal working.
All are state secrets.

We can get the information about the capability from DRDO's newsletter, but DRDO never reveal about the internal working of the missile, they never.



Bratva said:


> @bloo
> 
> Appaently the active seeker is fitted in the nosecon of tomahawk. Are you certain yours seeker can be fitted in to nose ?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you have manners to debate propelry?
> 
> Prove it with proper links that Brahmos uses tercom and DSMAC sans that BS trishul blog.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Our Official ISPR notification which says it used TERCOM and DSMAC. I hope you can show me the Official notification where it says Nirbhay used those nav
> 
> 
> 
> I guess jokr is on you who doesnt even know what is inside Brahmos.I guess this time, you need to learn more about your own missile navigation
> 
> Missile System - BrahMos.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trishul is a BS source. In all the official Indian and Russian sources, there is not a single mention of TERCOM and DSMAC being used by Brahmos and Infect you could search it on google, Not a single Supersonic missile uses Tercom and DSMAC



Where I say BrahMos using TERCOM, it never meant for terrain hugging, but instead of that it do steep dive.

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## Bratva

kaku1 said:


> Bro, Prasun Senhupta is the only one who researched most about the Indian missile and internal working.
> All are state secrets.
> 
> We can get the information about the capability from DRDO's newsletter, but DRDO never reveal about the internal working of the missile, they never.
> 
> 
> 
> Where I say BrahMos using TERCOM, it never meant for terrain hugging, but instead of that it do steep dive.



I was just replying to @Shadow_Hunter ignorant replies that Brahmos uses tercom.

Missile System - BrahMos.com

I hope he reads this link and may change his mind afterwards



bloo said:


> I think you are underestimating DRDO a bit too much,they may suck at almost everything else but missiles are something they don't suck at.
> There is no use comparing Tomahawk to Nirbhay. The Americans are too far off, Raytheon seekers are very advanced, using both active and passive. India will hardly go for that, maybe in the subsequent mark versions but as of now 2016-17 being the goal does not look unrealistic.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?
> The diameter of Nirbhay is around .52m and the micro strip patch was around 235mm so yes.



Let's agree to disagree, everyone have there own assumptions until some is proven wrong and some is proven right


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## kaku1

Bratva said:


> I was just replying to @Shadow_Hunter ignorant replies that Brahmos uses tercom.
> 
> Missile System - BrahMos.com
> 
> I hope he reads this link and may change his mind afterwards
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree to disagree, everyone have there own assumptions until some is proven wrong and some is proven right



I dont think, even if installed in missile, TERCOM was used in this current test, actually even the altitude on that Nirbhay was tested was not meant for cruise missile, it is too high

Lots of thing need to do, even the integration of IRNSS would be done in 4th or 5th test ( may be by Dec 2015), currently it using GPS.

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## bloo

Bratva said:


> I was just replying to @Shadow_Hunter
> 
> Let's agree to disagree, everyone have there own assumptions until some is proven wrong and some is proven right



Yup, only time will tell.


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## Shadow_Hunter

End of discussion


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## The Deterrent

Shadow_Hunter said:


> There is no requirement of a proof. Any sea skimming missile always uses Tercom, without tercom sea skimming modes cannot exist. Since you don't have this basic knowledge, you don't deserve to be treated with manners. Read about sea skimming modes before posting more gibberish.


TERCOM =/= Radar Altimeter (used for sea-skimming aboard AShMs). Basic knowledge what?

It can be assumed that DRDO didn't go for employing TERCOM in this flight (will in the future), and instead used simple radar altimeter (for maintaining a safe altitude) so that the other test flight parameters are validated first. Given the track record of DRDO with public releases, it seems highly improbable that this test employed TERCOM and DRDO didn't release any kind of information about it, not even a statement.

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## manojb

Bratva said:


> Don't quote me again with such idiotic rants when you can't deliver a sensible reply.
> 
> And for being keyboard analyst, Please enlighten me then did DRDO used tercom and dsmac in this test ?


Just becase babur uses tercom doenot necessarily mean there are no alternatives ! as far as publicly availble document DRDO uses much 'inferior' satellite bases navigation.. India is scientifically very inferior.. it is catching up to pak  one day nirbhay will fly with tercom and dsmacs inshallah!

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## dilpakistani

Congratz.... It's a huge milestone


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## Bratva

manojb said:


> Just becase babur uses tercom doenot necessarily mean there are no alternatives ! as far as publicly availble document DRDO uses much 'inferior' satellite bases navigation.. India is scientifically very inferior.. *it is catching up to pak  one day nirbhay will fly with tercom and dsmacs inshallah!*



Bhagvaan ki kirpaa sai is janam mai bs ye dekhnai ko mil jaye 

@Shadow_Hunter Hun araam ae ?


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## Speeder 2

It's like in today's age of 4G Smartphones, with foriegn tech knowhow transfer and still importing most of the key spare parts, some supa pawa "successfully " tested to make a 1G ancient Motorola handphone the size of a brick . 

The best feature of missile is no doubt the pschological impact on the regional stage in which once it is "launched" no one, even the supa pawa himself, will have a clue where it'll end up, because except China it might drop on anywhere any time.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Speeder 2 said:


> It's like in today's age of 4G Smartphones, with foriegn tech knowhow transfer and still importing most of the key spare parts, some supa pawa "successfully " tested to make a 1G ancient Motorola handphone the size of a brick .
> 
> The best feature of missile is no doubt the pschological impact on the regional stage in which once it is "launched" no one, even the supa pawa himself, will have a clue where it'll end up, because except China it might drop on anywhere any time.



Show us all of the imported parts.


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## shaheenmissile

Again among all this chest thumping Indians did not come up with verifiable and interesting technical facts on Nirbhay. Here,let me tell you one,being a Pakistani.
Indian designers have followed the same path as Babur with modular design. See here.


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## Ammyy

shaheenmissile said:


> Again among all this chest thumping Indians did not come up with verifiable and interesting technical facts on Nirbhay. Here,let me tell you one,being a Pakistani.
> Indian designers have followed the same path as Babur with modular design. See here.



Simple fact is that Nirbhay is long range missile but Babar is not, longer version (2000 KM) and very short range(600 KM) is already under development along with Sub launch and navy version so you can not compare both.

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## Water Car Engineer




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## manojb

Nirbhay wing operation animated! Enjoy!





imgur: the simple image sharer

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## shaheenmissile

Ammyy said:


> Simple fact is that Nirbhay is long range missile but Babar is not, longer version (2000 KM) and very short range(600 KM) is already under development along with Sub launch and navy version so you can not compare both.


that is your wet dream as of now.its not a fact.
Most Indians here present their imagination as "facts".



manojb said:


> Nirbhay wing operation animated! Enjoy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> imgur: the simple image sharer


this is a very unconventional way of opening wings. the wings are one solid strip of metal on a central pivot instead of two seperate wings as in babur and Tomahawk.
But the Air intake is similar to Russian Klub Class missiles India is already using. i wonder of Klub class wings open the same way.

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## shaheenmissile

5 modules similar to babur


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## IndoUS

shaheenmissile said:


> this is a very unconventional way of opening wings. the wings are one solid strip of metal on a central pivot instead of two seperate wings as in babur and Tomahawk.
> But the Air intake is similar to Russian Klub Class missiles India is already using. i wonder of Klub class wings open the same way.



There is no difference in wing deployment, US uses two independent wing, rather than a single wing design that is used by India, both serve the same purpose. As for air intake, almost all subsonic missiles that uses turbofan fan engine uses that style of intake, simply because it saves space and because the rest of missile houses the weapons package and guidance package.

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## Bratva

shaheenmissile said:


> 5 modules similar to babur



It's nirbhay


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## SSG COMMANDO 100

INDIA DIRECTLY SHIPPED THIS MISSILE FROM RUSSIA OR ISRAEL WAT A JOKE ALL INDIAN MISSILES R IMPORTED FROM RUSSIA ND ISRAEL ND THEN INDIA CALLS IT IS DOMESTICALLY MADE WAT A JOKE.


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## Buzungi

Good luck endia


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## TeesraIndiotHunter

Water Car Engineer said:


>



Looks pathetic compared to Babur.

Babur is way more advance missile with TERCOM capability. Which means even U.S can't block the navigation of the weapon system.


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## Water Car Engineer

SSG COMMANDO 100 said:


> INDIA DIRECTLY SHIPPED THIS MISSILE FROM RUSSIA OR ISRAEL WAT A JOKE ALL INDIAN MISSILES R IMPORTED FROM RUSSIA ND ISRAEL ND THEN INDIA CALLS IT IS DOMESTICALLY MADE WAT A JOKE.



Time to go to sleep.


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## shaheenmissile

5 modules similar to babur


Bratva said:


> It's nirbhay


yes but has similar modular design as Babur. Although babur has one extra module due to more electronics.


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## Water Car Engineer

TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> Looks pathetic compared to Babur.
> 
> Babur is way more advance missile with TERCOM capability. Which means even U.S can't block the navigation of the weapon system.



Your Baburs been active since how long? Why havent you even increased its range or serviceability to other branches? While this is the second launch of Nirbhay.

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## TeesraIndiotHunter

Water Car Engineer said:


> Your Baburs been active since how long? Why havent you even increased its range or serviceability to other branches. While this is the second launch of Nirbhay.



Exactly. Babur, as of now, is a much superior weapon system with much more reliability and already trial/tested under different parameters.

So stop your fellow bhartis who are jumping "oh nirbhay is superior to babur" ...LMFAO!!!!!!

Atleast, have nirbhay complete all the tests before saying anything...

Also, we did increase the range very early on. From 500 to 700km..now we have india's capital under our range.

Why do we need to increase range further? We focused on other, more technologically advanced aspects of babur...such as pin point accuracy, validation of TERCOM/DMAC, and integration of Beidou navigation system with Babur and so on...

Babur can hit our enemy's capital and all of indian military's deployments on Western front (Pakistani front)....

Why should we have focused on keep increasing the range then? lol...


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## Water Car Engineer

TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> Exactly. Babur, as of now, is a much superior weapon system with much more reliability and already trial/tested under different parameters.
> 
> So stop your fellow bhartis who are jumping "oh nirbhay is superior to babur" ...LMFAO!!!!!!
> 
> Atleast, have nirbhay complete all the tests before saying anything...
> 
> Also, we did increase the range very early on. From 500 to 700km..now we have india's capital under our range.
> 
> Why do we need to increase range further? We focused on other, more technologically advanced aspects of babur...such as pin point accuracy, validation of TERCOM/DMAC, and integration of Beidou navigation system with Babur and so on...
> 
> Babur can hit our enemy's capital and all of indian military's deployments on Western front (Pakistani front)....
> 
> Why should we have focused on keep increasing the range then? lol...




I dont know, so you can actually hit other relevant parts of India, duh. And making it capable of firing from subs and ships are things you should've done by now.


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## Sardar Singh

SSG COMMANDO 100 said:


> INDIA DIRECTLY SHIPPED THIS MISSILE FROM RUSSIA OR ISRAEL WAT A JOKE ALL INDIAN MISSILES R IMPORTED FROM RUSSIA ND ISRAEL ND THEN INDIA CALLS IT IS DOMESTICALLY MADE WAT A JOKE.


@Bratva Neg rating for this guy?


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## TeesraIndiotHunter

Water Car Engineer said:


> I dont know, so you can actually hit other relevant parts of India, duh. And making it capable of firing from subs and ships are things you should've done by now.



We have ballistic missiles to hit all parts of india.

Dude, you really want us to use our cruise missiles to hit indian parts 2000km away when you know that cruise missiles are SUB-SONIC and it would take HOURS before it reaches its destination? lol

To hit farther parts of india, we'll use ballistic missiles which will take minutes.

Cruise missiles are stealthy and for pin point accuracy for strategic targets...and we have that capability with babur since almost all strategic targets for us would lie within 600km and indian capital, military command and control centers etc are also under babur's range.

So why waste time/resource on increasing further range while we can use same resources to make Babur more technologically advance (which we have made it already)?


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## Water Car Engineer

TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> We have ballistic missiles to hit all parts of india.
> 
> Dude, you really want us to use our cruise missiles to hit indian parts 2000km away when you know that cruise missiles are SUB-SONIC and it would take HOURS before it reaches its destination? lol
> 
> To hit farther parts of india, we'll use ballistic missiles which will take minutes.
> 
> Cruise missiles are stealthy and for pin point accuracy for strategic targets...and we have that capability with babur since almost all strategic targets for us would lie within 600km and indian capital, military command and control centers etc are also under babur's range.
> 
> So why waste time/resource on increasing further range while we can use same resources to make Babur more technologically advance (which we have made it already)?




And why not? Chinese, Russians, US have/utilize several types of 1000++km subsonic cruise missiles for anti ship, land attack. And please tell me why you havent even serviced it in your navy, at the very least after how long?


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## Kloitra

The Deterrent said:


> TERCOM =/= Radar Altimeter (used for sea-skimming aboard AShMs). Basic knowledge what?
> 
> It can be assumed that DRDO didn't go for employing TERCOM in this flight (will in the future), and instead used simple radar altimeter (for maintaining a safe altitude) so that the other test flight parameters are validated first. Given the track record of DRDO with public releases, it seems highly improbable that this test employed TERCOM and DRDO didn't release any kind of information about it, not even a statement.



Doesn't the TERCOM use altimeter? What other options are available?


----------



## TeesraIndiotHunter

Water Car Engineer said:


> And why not? Chinese, Russians, US have/utilize several types of 1000++km subsonic cruise missiles for anti ship, land attack.



Dude, you serious?

Every nation makes weapons according to its own needs/doctrine/threat-perceptions..

You know Pakistan's threat-perception. Our military-machine is geared up to take on india...not Israel, not Europe, not Iran, not Srilanka...BUT india!

So all our weapons would be india-centric.

China/Russia/America need long-range cruise missiles because of their own size and the size of their perceived enemies.

For us, range is secondary once we have achieved required range to target india.

Hence you also haven't seen ballistic missiles from Pak with increased range. Not because we can't make them, but because we ALREADY have what we want...and now we are diverting our resources towards other weapon systems..that too..india specific (Point in case: Nasr battle-field quasi-ballistic tactical weapon system)....

You might see increased range of Pakistan's weapons/cruise missiles...but rest assured, it won't be before we develop all of the technologies we want. (Anti BMD systems for our missiles, pinpoint accuracy, completion of JF-17's upgradation, Al Khalid-II tanks, perfection of TERCOM/DMAC, and so on)...



> And please tell me why you havent even serviced it in your navy, at the very least after how long?



There is a difference in "not even servicing in our navy" and "not announcing it publicly" 

Also, development of cruise-missiles---and perfection of most advance technologies like TERCOM/DMAC...takes years.

Your nirbhay isn't reaching of today's level of Babur atleast for next six years.


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## shaheenmissile

Kloitra said:


> Doesn't the TERCOM use altimeter? What other options are available?


Yes it has an altimeter plus stored data for terrain contours,which it matches with readings it gets from altimeter.If readings match with programmed terrain altitude data then missile knows its on right path. If not the the system maneuvers left and right to try and find the right contours,thus correcting missile course.Thats why it is called TERCOM or Terrain contour matching and isn't just an altimeter but a navigation system as explained above.

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## SSG COMMANDO 100

PAKISTAN SHOULD INCREASE BABURS RANGE TO 1000 KM ND1500 KM ND ALSO PAKISTAN SHOULD UPGRADE ALL ITS MISSILES ND INCREASE ITS MISSILES SPEED TO SUPERSONIC ND HYPERSONIC LEVEL SO THT 10S OF THOUSANDS PAKISTANI HYPERSONIC ND SUPERSONIC MISSILES HIT INDIAN AIR BASES INDIAN ARMY BASES INDIAN COMMAND ND CONTROL CENTRES INDIAN NUCLEAR INSTALLATIONS INDIAN PARLIAMENT INDIAN CITIES ETC.


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## The_Sidewinder

SSG COMMANDO 100 said:


> PAKISTAN SHOULD INCREASE BABURS RANGE TO 1000 KM ND1500 KM ND ALSO PAKISTAN SHOULD UPGRADE ALL ITS MISSILES ND INCREASE ITS MISSILES SPEED TO SUPERSONIC ND HYPERSONIC LEVEL SO THT 10S OF THOUSANDS PAKISTANI HYPERSONIC ND SUPERSONIC MISSILES HIT INDIAN AIR BASES INDIAN ARMY BASES INDIAN COMMAND ND CONTROL CENTRES INDIAN NUCLEAR INSTALLATIONS INDIAN PARLIAMENT INDIAN CITIES ETC.



Caps lock on buddy


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## Water Car Engineer

TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> There is a difference in "not even servicing in our navy" and "not announcing it publicly"




Or, you just dont have it. 



> Your nirbhay isn't reaching of today's level of Babur atleast for next six years.




It's in developmental phase for the next 4-6 years. The base model will come with a terminal seeker, loitering capability, and a longer range, etc.



> You know Pakistan's threat-perception. Our military-machine is geared up to take on india...not Israel, not Europe, not Iran, not Srilanka...BUT india!



Yeah, shipyards and other wartime infrastructure are in Mumbai, etc. which is in India too. Which an increased ranged Babur can hit and cheaply compared to Ballistic missiles. You act like there's no advantage at all in increasing it's range.

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## desimorty

Babur is nothing more than license produciton of yj-62 missile of the chinese. Have a look.










Slight difference to increase range, but the critical components are probably purchased off the shelf from China right now.
However with the lack of transperancy is speculation, but the Chinese beleive this to be true. And so do it.

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## shaheenmissile

jatt said:


> Babur is nothing more than license produciton of yj-62 missile of the chinese. Have a look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slight difference to increase range, but the critical components are probably purchased off the shelf from China right now.
> However with the lack of transperancy is speculation, but the Chinese beleive this to be true. And so do it.


Similarly Brahmos is a licenced production of Yakhont? And looking at similarities between air intake and wing opening system of Nirbhay and Klub class. Nirbay too can be said a modified Klub class?


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## Arya Desa

Why are people comparing the lackluster babur to our Nirbhay?


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## RKO

oh..God!!! pissing contest!!!!


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## Bratva

Arya Desa said:


> Why are people comparing the lackluster babur to our Nirbhay?



and what's lackluster in babur ?

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## DingDong

shaheenmissile said:


> Similarly Brahmos is a licenced production of Yakhont? And looking at similarities between air intake and wing opening system of Nirbhay and Klub class. Nirbay too can be said a modified Klub class?



Brahmos is a joint production of Russia and India, we never hid that fact. WHy would we produce Brahmos when we could simply get TOT for Yakhont?

Doesn't matter how we got Nirbhaya working, only thing that matters is "India now possesses a long range cruise missile".

Pakistan doesn't have any aerospace industry, hence most probably it is all "paint job".


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

jatt said:


> Babur is nothing more than license produciton of yj-62 missile of the chinese. Have a look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slight difference to increase range, but the critical components are probably purchased off the shelf from China right now.
> However with the lack of transperancy is speculation, but the Chinese beleive this to be true. And so do it.




 the launch mechanism .. The design and the intake and even the launcher tells a different tale.. But hey I'm quoting a dim indian troll you can't digest facts..


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## kaykay

Hey you butthurts, Just digest it now. LOLs

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## TeesraIndiotHunter

Water Car Engineer said:


> Or, you just dont have it.






Why you indians..hindus...act with so much inferiority-complex?

First Pakistan didn't have "nuclear program" and it was all "hoax" since we didn't have the "capacity" to go nuclear (Your top political/technical officials)....and then we busted you into an insulting existence by successfully conducting multiple nuclear explosions.

Then Pakistan didn't have capability to produce missiles and we could only got it from NK...but again, we literally p!ssed on indian/hindus by testing and deploying solid-fueled missiles like Shaheen-IIs, and coming up with tactical quasi-ballistic weapon systems like Nasr.

Now, do you seriously believe that we don't have capacity to deploy babur at sea? 

Take a hint from the picture 






If you are a technical person, you'd know what I'm trying to hint.

Pakistan has full capability to deploy Babur at sea...



> It's in developmental phase for the next 4-6 years. The base model will come with a terminal seeker, loitering capability, and a longer range, etc.



Exactly.

Moreover, loitering capability and a bit longer range is peanuts compared to technological advancement of TERCOM/DMAC deployment in our cruise-missiles.

Pakistan can increase Babur's range at will...but you'll have to work super hard to have TERCOM deployed in Nirbhay.



> Yeah, shipyards and other wartime infrastructure are in Mumbai, etc. which is in India too. Which an increased ranged Babur can hit and cheaply compared to Ballistic missiles. You act like there's no advantage at all in increasing it's range.



Its not about "benefit" alone. Its always about "cost-and-benefit" ...Opportunity cost of increasing range of babur without mastering other technologies first was not rational for Pakistan.

Also, Babur can hit mumbai from border areas near Hyderabad, Sindh. It has range of 700km*+* 



kaykay said:


> Hey you butthurts, Just digest it now. LOLs



Digest what? That you got an ancient technology...something we already tested a full *DECADE *ago.

poor bhartis. Feel pity on them.

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## kaykay

^^ LOLs I see! That's why you are yet to test a long range cruise missile which you want since mushraff era.


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## Water Car Engineer

TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> Pakistan can increase Babur's range at will...but you'll have to work super hard to have TERCOM deployed in Nirbhay.




Then do it, it's been 10 years.



> Why you indians..hindus...act with so much inferiority-complex?



Inferior complex to who? Pakistan?




































We'll have a complex to Pakistan when you guys do 1/3 of this.

Please at the very least have your pathetic industry produce a bike to replace those ancient Japanese ones.

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## karan21

TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> Why you indians..hindus...act with so much inferiority-complex?



1 .I don't understand when targeting India why do you guys only bash Hindus. Dude come on?? I am a Sikh I wanna be bashed too. India is not all Hindu. We are one for all and all for one. 
2. No in India has inferiority complex to Pakistan, but when people in Pakistan heard that India has reached the moon and Mars certainly many in Pakistan felt inferior.

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## TeesraIndiotHunter

karan21 said:


> 1 .I don't understand when targeting India why do you guys only bash Hindus. Dude come on?? I am a Sikh I wanna be bashed too. India is not all Hindu. We are one for all and all for one.



I feel bad bashing sikhs. Hindus atleast have their land now (after centuries and centuries of humiliation, Islamic slavery, and bowing down to superior Islamic peoples)...but what do Sikhs have?  Nothing. Even sikhs' holiest land(s) is controlled by us. Majority of Punjab is controlled by us. The remaining punjab in india was divided and sikh holiest place in india was bombed..and then sikhs murdered left and right like no other. Go ask your dad about 1984.

So bashing sikhs makes me feel bad.



> 2. No in India has inferiority complex to Pakistan, but when people in Pakistan heard that India has reached the moon and Mars certainly many in Pakistan felt inferior.





nobody gave any sh!t.

Definitely, we didn't say 'oh india might have used china's rocket to reach moon'...or 'oh india's mar mission was russian-made but just paint in india'....if we had said those things, then most definitely you could point finger and say that we were suffering from inferiority complex...but we are not.

but when it comes to india...indians even cry on smallest of things! "Babur is copy of chinese missile" is the line of indians on this thread  Tells you alot feeling of inferiority indians have.

But i can understand...centuries and centuries of humiliation, defeat, and conquering by superior Islamic peoples can lead to such state.


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## Water Car Engineer

karan21 said:


> 1 .I don't understand when targeting India why do you guys only bash Hindus. Dude come on?? I am a Sikh I wanna be bashed too. India is not all Hindu. We are one for all and all for one.
> 2. No in India has inferiority complex to Pakistan, but when people in Pakistan heard that India has reached the moon and Mars certainly many in Pakistan felt inferior.




And Im a Christian. We all know who has the inferior complex.



> but when it comes to india...indians even cry on smallest of things! "Babur is copy of chinese missile" is the line of indians on this thread  Tells you alot feeling of inferiority indians have.




And what? Zarvan the whole time was saying it was a tomahawk copy. It's a defence forum. You have Iranians saying Turkish, Arab stuff is a copy and vis a versa. Chinese dissing Japanese, etc. You make a big deal out of nothing.

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## kṣamā

Well many foreign posters here bashing India saying what took this long to have a sub sonic cruise missile. Well for starters we DEVELOPED it. We where not blessed with working copies of the best CM to inspire our design and tech. Plus the engine on ours is a TURBOFAN and not TURBOJET. That too is in house developed. The engine could not have been Russian as it is denied under MTCR. Few learned posters have pointed out the development model of this engine. But that was a development low by-pass engine and this is it's high by-pass model. 

The above dose not take away from any CM from any nation. Others may have the product first but we also have the knowledge-base to build it. Sure it's iterations will have bells and whistles but this is no joke either. 

To the poster with arguments of increasing range easily, no buddy it cannot be done "easily". If re-designing qualities as easy then it might be. It's not balistic that reducing of throw weight will increase throw range.

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## karan21

TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> Nothing. Even sikhs' holiest land(s) is controlled by us. Majority of Punjab is controlled by us. The remaining punjab in india was divided and sikh holiest place in india was bombed..and then sikhs murde





TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> I feel bad bashing sikhs. Hindus atleast have their land now (after centuries and centuries of humiliation, Islamic slavery, and bowing down to superior Islamic peoples)...but what do Sikhs have?  Nothing. Even sikhs' holiest land(s) is controlled by us. Majority of Punjab is controlled by us. The remaining punjab in india was divided and sikh holiest place in india was bombed..and then sikhs murdered left and right like no other. Go ask your dad about 1984.
> 
> So bashing sikhs makes me feel bad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nobody gave any sh!t.
> 
> Definitely, we didn't say 'oh india might have used china's rocket to reach moon'...or 'oh india's mar mission was russian-made but just paint in india'....if we had said those things, then most definitely you could point finger and say that we were suffering from inferiority complex...but we are not.
> 
> but when it comes to india...indians even cry on smallest of things! "Babur is copy of chinese missile" is the line of indians on this thread  Tells you alot feeling of inferiority indians have.
> 
> But i can understand...centuries and centuries of humiliation, defeat, and conquering by superior Islamic peoples can lead to such state.



Lol Whatever man no matter how hard we try, you will never understand the true spirit of India. You are a Pakistani. Its really not your fault. I can understand.

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## Lil Mathew

Bratva said:


> So do you have any proof or a report which says it was tested with TERCOM and DSMAC?
> 
> And btw do you even know What Tercom and DSMAC is used for? And Does Brahmos goes in to Terrain Hugging mode? If yes than there is a logical explanation it requires TERCOM and DSMAC, If not then why are you wasting tercom in Brahmos when it didnt even go in to terrain huggin ?
> 
> If Yes then you would not have posted this gibberish
> 
> If not, then I advise you to read some material and difference b/w Sub-sonic and Super-Sonic cruise missiles and Why super sonic cruise missiles don;t need terrain hugging and Why Sub sonic needs terrain hugging and to achieve terrain hugging which navigation is used for it.


Ramjet engine( continuous power)propultion means terrain huging is possible.. Also you can check brahmos site it clearly states that army version block 2 has terrain hugging capability.. Can fly at an altitude of 5 meter.. But as a 3 mach supersonic missile low altitude makes so much drag.. Also being a supersonic missile stealth feature not needed as of now.. So it can be now used at high altitude..

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## TeesraIndiotHunter

karan21 said:


> Lol Whatever man no matter how hard we try, you will never understand the true spirit of India. You are a Pakistani. Its really not your fault. I can understand.



Same goes for you buddy.

You will never understand the spirit of Islam and spirit of Pakistan as well


----------



## HariPrasad

SSG COMMANDO 100 said:


> INDIA DIRECTLY SHIPPED THIS MISSILE FROM RUSSIA OR ISRAEL WAT A JOKE ALL INDIAN MISSILES R IMPORTED FROM RUSSIA ND ISRAEL ND THEN INDIA CALLS IT IS DOMESTICALLY MADE WAT A JOKE.




Oh well come new recruit. You are an addition to many like you on the forum. You have potential to provide a lots of amusement to forum.



TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> We have ballistic missiles to hit all parts of india.




With CEP measured in KM.



TeesraIndiotHunter said:


> Exactly. Babur, as of now, is a much superior weapon system with much more reliability and already trial/tested under different parameters.




Nirbhay can only be compared with Tomahawk. It has such a rugged guidance that it can hit the target with 1 M accuracy without satellite signals. It can loiter, it can come back after delivering pay load etc. Go and find something else to compare Babur. We are a country which makes the missile which can hit the target at Mach 3 speed after double S maneuvers with 1 M CEP. Babur is totally unfit for compression.


----------



## Zarvan

HariPrasad said:


> Oh well come new recruit. You are an addition to many like you on the forum. You have potential to provide a lots of amusement to forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With CEP measured in KM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nirbhay can only be compared with Tomahawk. It has such a rugged guidance that it can hit the target with 1 M accuracy without satellite signals. It can loiter, it can come back after delivering pay load etc. Go and find something else to compare Babur. We are a country which makes the missile which can hit the target at Mach 3 speed after double S maneuvers with 1 M CEP. Babur is totally unfit for compression.


You are free to live in fools paradise


----------



## The Deterrent

Kloitra said:


> Doesn't the TERCOM use altimeter? What other options are available?


In a nutshell, TERCOM is a complete navigation system which uses the radar altimeter for sensing altitude. After that it has to compare the altitude readings with pre-defined terrain data and output the result to the flight control computer. 

Since sea-skimming missiles have to stay at a low altitude above water, only altimeters are enough for that purpose. There is no terrain so TERCOM is not needed, INS does the job of guiding the missile to the vicinity of the target, after which the onboard seeker takes over for terminal guidance.



HariPrasad said:


> Nirbhay can only be compared with Tomahawk. It has such a rugged guidance that* it can hit the target with 1 M accuracy without satellite signals*. It can loiter,* it can come back after delivering pay load* etc.


Can it deliver extra pizza toppings on demand?

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## Kloitra

The Deterrent said:


> Since sea-skimming missiles have to stay at a low altitude above water, only altimeters are enough for that purpose. There is no terrain so TERCOM is not needed, INS does the job of guiding the missile to the vicinity of the target, after which the onboard seeker takes over for terminal guidance.



What about sea/land dual, like Brahmos. When over land, it would have to manage the terrain.


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## Bratva

Lil Mathew said:


> Ramjet engine( continuous power)propultion means terrain huging is possible.. Also you can check brahmos site it clearly states that army version block 2 has terrain hugging capability.. Can fly at an altitude of 5 meter.. But as a 3 mach supersonic missile low altitude makes so much drag.. Also being a supersonic missile stealth feature not needed as of now.. So it can be now used at high altitude..



There is a difference b/w terrain hugging through radar altimeter and terrain hugging through tercom. Brahmos does the former not the later


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## The Deterrent

Kloitra said:


> What about sea/land dual, like Brahmos. When over land, it would have to manage the terrain.


Of course, BrahMos/TLAM are examples of land attack missiles. A simpler TERCOM aboard them would begin guidance after INS/GNSS guides the missile to vicinity of shore waypoint. But sources suggest that TLAM has a TERCOM system for the sea too, composed of magnetic imaging data of the flight path.

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## Bratva

HariPrasad said:


> Oh well come new recruit. You are an addition to many like you on the forum. You have potential to provide a lots of amusement to forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With CEP measured in KM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nirbhay can only be compared with Tomahawk. It has such a rugged guidance *that it can hit the target with 1 M accuracy without satellite signals. It can loiter, it can come back after delivering pay load e*tc. Go and find something else to compare Babur. We are a country which makes the missile which can hit the target at Mach 3 speed after double S maneuvers with 1 M CEP. Babur is totally unfit for compression.




Neither Tomahwk could do that without satellite Navigation. You nirbhay must have been made my Martians then.

P.S. Instead of blowing up hot steam, you should make that claims once nirbhay is tested with TERCOM and DSMAC.

P.P.S. Pakistan missile which are *currently employed* have CEP in range of 10-50 Meters from shortest to Longest. Unless you could prove it through official sources, your claim would remain BS


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## Kloitra

Bratva said:


> There is a difference b/w terrain hugging through radar altimeter and terrain hugging through tercom. Brahmos does the former not the later


Given the speed, should not Brahmos require tercom? The reaction time would be smaller and handling harder for it.

I am talking land to land attack, not sea to land. I guess it would be similar cause of hi-low flight path.


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## Bratva

Kloitra said:


> Given the speed, should not Brahmos require tercom? The reaction time would be smaller and handling harder for it.
> 
> I am talking land to land attack, not sea to land. I guess it would be similar cause of hi-low flight path.



Given the range, of 300 KM, INS/active seeker/S maneuver is more than sufficient for Brahmos. If it has a long range, say 1000 KM, you would then need a tercom so the deviations caused in flight path should be corrected by comparing terrain data and keeping missile low and on path.

As we know, longer the range, longer the deviation in flight path.

An example of Iskander-M qausi ballistic missile which has a CEP of 5-7 m despite being supersonic


system
Inertial, optical homing, use of GPS / GLONASS in addition to the inertial guidance system

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## kaykay

Bratva said:


> Neither Tomahwk could do that without satellite Navigation. You nirbhay must have been made my Martians then.
> 
> P.S. Instead of blowing up hot steam, you should make that claims once nirbhay is tested with TERCOM and DSMAC.
> 
> P.P.S. Pakistan missile which are *currently employed* have CEP in range of 10-50 Meters from shortest to Longest. Unless you could prove it through official sources, your claim would remain BS


Officially Nirbhay has accuracy 'better than 10 meters' though not 1 meter as claimed by other member.( One defence journalist and also owner of Tarmak007 blog claimed that It was 5-6 MTR during recent test.
Here is official release,
Print Release


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## desimorty

Wow talk about denial. Pakistan's expertise in missile technology is practically none existent. North Korea has more expertise. Where does Pak get the funding to RnD a cruise missile? lol
FYI there is no weight difference between brahmos and yahkont. So the range is 500 km for both. They only diclared on piece of paper it wasn't. And if the Russians can hand over a missile that doesn't meet the MTCR regime than the Chinese can hand over missile technology, just like North Korea to Pakistan for the right price. What you do with it after is up to Pakistan, just like Brahmos no turning into a superior verision of Yakhont.
FYI, Pakistanis nationalistic reotric is always funny. 
PS sorry for the grammer.

Also given the development time of Babur, there is no doubt the Chinese have had their hand in it. Otherwise it would have taken very long to bring something from testing phase to full operation.


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## PARIKRAMA

The fact of the matter is Nirbhay is not a big technological break through and nver was from the beginning. its main advantages are
1. Its range (prasun Sengupta said the second test missile travelled 1157 kms) which i think can be developed over time to say 2000-2500-3000 kms
2. Its addition would add variety of delivery systems which can be used right from Brahmos to nirbhay to prithvi to agni and many more for different roles (nuclear/conventional).
3. The delivery of all such missiles from multiple platforms like land air sea over time which adds a potent and healthy mix


Now as more tests are carried out we need to see the terrain hugging and sattelite navigation based (our own GPS) progress. Interestingly, Nirbhay to me looks more tech demonstrator for a much larger missile plan. The only issue i see is that at 0.7 Mach there is a good chance of it being taken out (even with Stingers i believe). So if we could raise the speed and may be instead of fan use a engine capable of changing speeds from from 0.7 to may 2 mach the potency of such smart weapon can be increased.

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## Lil Mathew

Bratva said:


> Neither Tomahwk could do that without satellite Navigation. You nirbhay must have been made my Martians then.
> 
> P.S. Instead of blowing up hot steam, you should make that claims once nirbhay is tested with TERCOM and DSMAC.
> 
> P.P.S. Pakistan missile which are *currently employed* have CEP in range of 10-50 Meters from shortest to Longest. Unless you could prove it through official sources, your claim would remain BS



TERCOM is not some ultimate technological end for navigation.. Every countries has its own technologies and ways for navigation. Our *hybrid inertial navigation system using a ring-laser gyro (RINS) coupled with a GPS receiver and a digital radar altimeter* (all developed by the DRDO’s Research centre Imarat, or RCI, and integrated jointly by the Advanced Systems Laboratory, or ASL, and the Aeronautical Development Establishment, or ADE) is indigenous and highly effective.. Our terminal guidance *Scene Correlation and Navigation (SCAN) using SAR/ISAR mapping* is similar type correlation technology (even better in some aspects) like DSMAC.. Why we need to change it with DSMAC???.. SCAN is more reliable .. Because here high resolution satellite SAR images are compared by onboard x band SAR images.. These navigation techs are well proved in Brahmos.. *INS correction using SAR image* also will be their in Nirbhay which is better than TAINS( TERCOM using with INS)..
One disadvantage of TERCOM systems is that *the entire route has to be pre-planned, including its launch point*. If the missile is launched from an unexpected location or flies too far off-course, it will never fly over the features included in the maps, and become lost.This makes TERCOM based systems much less flexible than more modern systems like GPS, which can be set to attack any location from any location, and does not require any sort of pre-recorded information which means they can be targeted immediately prior to launch.
Why BABUR using TERCOM & DSMAC?? How you getting the pre-recorded contour map of the terrain for TERCOM (by satellite????? Which satellite???) and How you take photographs of target for DSMAC (using Surveillance aircraft???)... Each must develop their technology according to their available resources( satellites) and needs.. Here it is evident that Pakistan just copy paste old Tomohawk nav system blindly...
One more thing is the first two tests of Nirbhay are meant for validating the robustness of the missile’s airframe and that of its two-stage propulsion system (and hence are not equipped with digital terrain profile matching sensor and warheads. The next two, also to be conducted from ITR, will seek to validate the Nirbhay’s flight management system, inclusive of the digital terrain profile matching sensor (an X-band SAR)...

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## cerberus

jatt said:


> Wow talk about denial. Pakistan's expertise in missile technology is practically none existent. North Korea has more expertise. Where does Pak get the funding to RnD a cruise missile? lol
> FYI there is no weight difference between brahmos and yahkont. So the range is 500 km for both. They only diclared on piece of paper it wasn't. And if the Russians can hand over a missile that doesn't meet the MTCR regime than the Chinese can hand over missile technology, just like North Korea to Pakistan for the right price. What you do with it after is up to Pakistan, just like Brahmos no turning into a superior verision of Yakhont.
> FYI, Pakistanis nationalistic reotric is always funny.
> PS sorry for the grammer.
> 
> Also given the development time of Babur, there is no doubt the Chinese have had their hand in it. Otherwise it would have taken very long to bring something from testing phase to full operation.


You bot pakistan have much more potential than any other army there missile are world beaters


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## PARIKRAMA

btw the relevancy of all such weapons (babur/nirbhay/omahawk) would all lose if a hypersonic missile of simalar range gets devloped quickly. it is this where we all have high hopes from either brahmos/Yakhont derivative or DRDO to come out with something quickly.


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## Lil Mathew

Bratva said:


> There is a difference b/w terrain hugging through radar altimeter and terrain hugging through tercom. Brahmos does the former not the later



With only using an altimeter how can a missile become terrain hugging???? Their should be a correlator comparing terrain contour with Altitude measured.. May be any other tech other than TERCOM.. Anyway Brahmos is terrain hugging according to Dr.Sivathanu Pillai..

Three services to have BrahMos missiles - The Hindu

MUMBAI: While the Navy has started inducting multi-role, supersonic cruise missile, BrahMos, in a big way, the Army and the Air Force are poised to follow suit to be able to `destabilise' critical targets with pinpoint accuracy. 

"Army is very keen to have the missile and we are working on the `land to land' version of it for the Army," said Dr. A. Sivathanu Pillai, chief controller of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). 

Dr. Pillai is also the managing director of BrahMos Aerospace, an Indo-Russian joint venture that designed and developed the world's only supersonic cruise missile and is now engaged in its production and marketing. He was here to ceremoniously receive the first airframe section of BrahMos from the Chairman of Godrej and Boyce Mfg. Company, J.N. Godrej. About 20 Indian and seven Russian companies are making critical systems for the missile. 

He said that the missile was undergoing critical tests to meet the Army's specific requirements to be able to take on different types of targets. The army version would have features like position updating, terrain-hugging, homing image analysis and higher degree of data processing . 
The Army is raising a special BrahMos Regiment of three batteries comprising a mobile launcher, mobile and fixed command centres besides other supporting facilities. 

The Air Force has identified Su-30 Mk1 aircraft to be able to deliver air-launched version of the BrahMos. The air-launched version will be lighter in weight with its reduced booster. Dr. Pillai said that it would have the advantage of the speed of the platform itself. It would have fins for stability and a simplified nose.

He said that one BrahMos could be fitted under the belly of Su-30 without any structural modification. Two more could be added under the wings if they were upgraded. The Air Force has already accepted the feasibility report and the missile is being readied for test. The army version has already undergone two tests. Both the services would be able to induct the missile in a couple of years.

The BrahMos is a multiple-platform missile for the Navy. All new warships would be armed with the BrahMos and all big ships undergoing a refit would also get it, he said. The Navy would be able to fit even its land-based maritime reconnaissance aircraft, TU-142 for air to ship attacks while being on surveillance missions. The aircraft would be able to carry up to six BrahMos. The Navy has already fitted four two-tube missile launchers onboard INS Rajput, a Kashin class destroyer. All five warships of this class would get BrahMos.


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## Bratva

Lil Mathew said:


> *1.* TERCOM is not some ultimate technological end for navigation.. Every countries has its own technologies and ways for navigation. Our *hybrid inertial navigation system using a ring-laser gyro (RINS) coupled with a GPS receiver and a digital radar altimeter* (all developed by the DRDO’s Research centre Imarat, or RCI, and integrated jointly by the Advanced Systems Laboratory, or ASL, and the Aeronautical Development Establishment, or ADE) is indigenous and highly effective.. Our terminal guidance *Scene Correlation and Navigation (SCAN) using SAR/ISAR mapping* is similar type correlation technology (even better in some aspects) like DSMAC.. Why we need to change it with DSMAC???.. SCAN is more reliable .. Because here high resolution satellite SAR images are compared by onboard x band SAR images.. These navigation techs are well proved in Brahmos.. *INS correction using SAR image* also will be their in Nirbhay which is better than TAINS( TERCOM using with INS)..
> 
> *1.5* One disadvantage of TERCOM systems is that *the entire route has to be pre-planned, including its launch point*. If the missile is launched from an unexpected location or flies too far off-course, it will never fly over the features included in the maps, and become lost.This makes TERCOM based systems much less flexible than more modern systems like GPS, which can be set to attack any location from any location, and does not require any sort of pre-recorded information which means they can be targeted immediately prior to launch.
> 
> 2.* Why BABUR using TERCOM & DSMAC?? How you getting the pre-recorded contour map of the terrain for TERCOM (by satellite????? Which satellite???) and How you take photographs of target for DSMAC (using Surveillance aircraft???)... Each must develop their technology according to their available resources( satellites) and needs.. Here it is evident that Pakistan just copy paste old Tomohawk nav system blindly...
> *
> One more thing is the first two tests of Nirbhay are meant for validating the robustness of the missile’s airframe and that of its two-stage propulsion system (and hence are not equipped with digital terrain profile matching sensor and warheads. The next two, also to be conducted from ITR, will seek to validate the Nirbhay’s flight management system, inclusive of the digital terrain profile matching sensor (an X-band SAR)...



1. It's theoretical at this stage. We will gauge the success of all these systems once it is implemented in nirbhay and performed as you are advertising it should.

1.5 No You can not fly Cruise missile without tercom based solely on INS coupled with GPS receiver. Since Indian GPS are not Jamming prone, Indian scientists would not take the risk of going all out GPS on nirbhay without same backup if GPS signals fail. TERCOM is there for this very basic reason.

And your assumptions are pretty much wrong, every modern cruise missile has TERCOM/*TERPROM in it. * Every cruise missile flight is pre-planned. The surprise factor is Missile Low-Low-Hi trajectory which masks missile location until it's late too intercept. No Country ever launch it's cruise missile solely based on GPS. this is the most foolish mistake consider to be done ever.

It's * only during the flight* that you can change Missile paths. Read Block IV tomahawk links that I posted couple pages back how GPS works in it

And for Terminal guidance, one can use DSMAC which is an autonomous missile guidance *concept* based on area correlation of sensed ground scenes . It's a concept not a technology, so You can implement this concept as per your requirements, one way you have described is in your post. So How your SCAN becomes better DSMAC when it is actually a way to implement DSMAC? Do you know there is a camera installed in Cruise missile which take photos in terminal phase and compare it with the target to match and set it's terminal dive ?

If you are not using DSMAC, then you your terminal guidance is provided by IIR seeker like of storm shadow or SOM cruise of turkey



*2. *Since your Ignorance about Tercom and DSMAC is exposed openly, You don't even know how cruise missile works and just shooting tangents left, right, up down on mere assumptions instead of the proven history of every cruise missile launch from first gulf war to second gulf war to Libyan conflict which proved every cruise missile follow a preplanned route

So i'm not even going to comment your ignorant remark of Babur Tercom and DSMAC and the number of cameras installed in it and no we didn't copy pasted TERCOM or DSMAC, we developed both the system in house.It's not the software that you can copy, it's the algorithms ( image processing, the flight control software etc etc), hardware software combined on a FPGA board which you can not copy paste. You should have a basic electrical engineering knowledge to know such systems has to be developed from scratch and nobody can copy paste it. It's all in Babur database thread which you read obviously in strategic missile subforum

And about the maps part, Pakistan is using Beidou which has mapping capability. Our SPD has signed agreements for military usage of Beidou which can map terrain in Centimeters or Milimeters besides there are commercial firms through which we can obtain terrain mapping up to in Centimeters. Again info is in babur database thread


I hope when you quote this post, you have done some reading about everything and arguments would not be based on blind patriotism and ignorance



Lil Mathew said:


> *With only using an altimeter how can a missile become terrain hugging?*??? Their should be a correlator comparing terrain contour with Altitude measured.. May be any other tech other than TERCOM.. Anyway Brahmos is terrain hugging according to Dr.Sivathanu Pillai...



Ermm because that's the job of Radar altimeter ? It send data to flight computer and prevents an object from crashing in to ground. How do you think AshM achieves 5-10 Meter from 100-200 Meter altitude in terminal phase before attacking the ship ?

Shaheenmissile post in previous pages has amply explained the difference b/w Tercom and just radar altimeter

And by the homing image analysis part, it means the data collected by active seeker can form a better image thorugh high data processing and Better homing image analysis


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## Water Car Engineer

Path

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## HariPrasad

Bratva said:


> Neither Tomahwk could do that without satellite Navigation. You nirbhay must have been made my Martians then.




So far as believing the claim is concern, I would prefer Mr. Saraswat over you.


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## RKO

PARIKRAMA said:


> The fact of the matter is Nirbhay is not a big technological break through and nver was from the beginning. its main advantages are
> 1. Its range (prasun Sengupta said the second test missile travelled 1157 kms) which i think can be developed over time to say 2000-2500-3000 kms
> 2. Its addition would add variety of delivery systems which can be used right from Brahmos to nirbhay to prithvi to agni and many more for different roles (nuclear/conventional).
> 3. The delivery of all such missiles from multiple platforms like land air sea over time which adds a potent and healthy mix
> 
> 
> Now as more tests are carried out we need to see the terrain hugging and sattelite navigation based (our own GPS) progress. Interestingly, Nirbhay to me looks more tech demonstrator for a much larger missile plan. The only issue i see is that at 0.7 Mach there is a good chance of it being taken out (even with Stingers i believe). So if we could raise the speed and may be instead of fan use a engine capable of changing speeds from from 0.7 to may 2 mach the potency of such smart weapon can be increased.


you want a subsonic missile to travel at supersonic speeds...? I think ur dnt knw the purpose of this missile! Nirbhay is meant to travel at sub sonic... N there wil be no change in that! For super sonic, we have brahmos and for hypersonic we have shourya and B2 is comin!


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## HariPrasad

shaheenmissile said:


> Similarly Brahmos is a licenced production of Yakhont? And looking at similarities between air intake and wing opening system of Nirbhay and Klub class. Nirbay too can be said a modified Klub class?




We have never claimed that it is fully indigenous. It is a much more potent version of Yakhont developed Yakhont as the base.


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## Bratva

HariPrasad said:


> So far as believing the claim is concern, I would prefer Mr. Saraswat over you.



LOL.


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## HariPrasad

RKO said:


> you want a subsonic missile to travel at supersonic speeds...? I think ur dnt knw the purpose of this missile! Nirbhay is meant to travel at sub sonic... N there wil be no change in that! For super sonic, we have brahmos and for hypersonic we have shourya and B2 is comin!




Subsonic missiles are meant for Long range and low altitude travelling. Pushing them beyond cruising speed result into fuel efficiency penalty resulting into shorter range. one article quote that its speed is some where arroung 985 KM Per hour.


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## A.Rafay

I'm just glad we didn't test fire Nasr this time.

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## MilSpec

Bratva said:


> So do you have any proof or a report which says it was tested with TERCOM and DSMAC?
> 
> And btw do you even know What Tercom and DSMAC is used for? And Does Brahmos goes in to Terrain Hugging mode? If yes than there is a logical explanation it requires TERCOM and DSMAC, If not then why are you wasting tercom in Brahmos when it didnt even go in to terrain huggin ?
> 
> If Yes then you would not have posted this gibberish
> 
> If not, then I advise you to read some material and difference b/w Sub-sonic and Super-Sonic cruise missiles and Why super sonic cruise missiles don;t need terrain hugging and Why Sub sonic needs terrain hugging and to achieve terrain hugging which navigation is used for it.



Hi,

Preloaded terrain mappings with radar altimeter is not a recent innovation. Now as far as terrain hugging modes are concerned, some supersonic missiles have even better resources to achive that with digital gyroscope mated with high frequency ultrasonic transducers with high speed closed loop servo response systems for control surface actuation, which can deploy at any theater of conflict without pre-programming for flight path. 

As far as digital realtime mapping target designation is concerned, there are adaptive control boards that can do a lot a processing in a common architecture board, like target correlation with digital mapping for multiple attack modes, active course correction, terminal guidance modes with active seeking, terminal guidance for dynamic targets. I wouldn't hesitate to say that the entire flight envelope in some missiles have their independent flight control laws which provides more modes of traverse than conventional operating modes. I have high hopes from the Indian team in guidance technology in the future.

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## Skull and Bones

RKO said:


> you want a subsonic missile to travel at supersonic speeds...? I think ur dnt knw the purpose of this missile! Nirbhay is meant to travel at sub sonic... N there wil be no change in that! For super sonic, we have brahmos and for hypersonic we have shourya and B2 is comin!



A supersonic dash at the terminal stage has it's own advantage.


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## Bratva

sandy_3126 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Preloaded terrain mappings with radar altimeter is not a recent innovation. Now as far as terrain hugging modes are concerned, some supersonic missiles have even better resources to achive that with digital gyroscope mated with high frequency ultrasonic transducers with high speed closed loop servo response systems for control surface actuation, which can deploy at any theater of conflict without pre-programming for flight path.
> 
> As far as digital realtime mapping target designation is concerned, there are adaptive control boards that can do a lot a processing in a common architecture board, like target correlation with digital mapping for multiple attack modes, active course correction, terminal guidance modes with active seeking, terminal guidance for dynamic targets. I wouldn't hesitate to say that the entire flight envelope in some missiles have their independent flight control laws which provides more modes of traverse than conventional operating modes. I have high hopes from the Indian team in guidance technology in the future.




No doubt what you have said is true. But supersonic doesn't go over 400 Km range is it and there is no variation in it's altitude weather it is at Hi-Hi-Hi, or Hi-Lo-Hi it moves at a predetermined height like 100-50-100 meters or 100-100-100 meters not like 100-80-50-120-30 meters

Terrain hugging means different in super sonic and sub sonic. 

And as the distance increases chances of introduction of INS drift errors began to show right ? You need to keep missile on Path or if you want to change path, that's where GPS signalling chips in.

Without Navigation maps, if a mountain comes in b/w missile flight path and missile flying at say 100 meters, It wouldn't have a clue to avoid that obstacle That's where Tercom comes in, A map mated to digital altimeter to know exactly at which places to fly at low height and at which places to fly at higher height and that's the concept of Tercom. You could not achieve dynamic altitude variations without TERCOM and that's the concept of Sub sonic missile, fly low, avoid obstacles in path reach target. Without Navigation maps mated with digital altimeter how could Cruise missile avoid obstacles ?

DSMAC is concept, it depends upon the user how he wants to implement. Weather to use co-relator or go with an active seeker or IIR seeker. There are no two opinions on this one




"*The missile maintained an accuracy better than 10 meters throughout it's path* and covered a
distance of more than 1000 km"

Can you explain to me what does this line mean from DRDO press release ?


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## PARIKRAMA

What i said was about a smart weapon with speed changes from 0.7 mach while crusing to its target and speed up to sayh 2 when its nearings its target.. I never said Nirbhay can or should do that. But if there is a possibility of developing a smart weapon system which can do something like that then it opens a plethora of openings in the enemy camp as it is much more difficult to take a missile down with say closer to mach 2 speed then at 0.7 mach. 
This is where all cruise missiles can at times get vulnerable. Btw the reason for speed changes is to optimum use of fuel onboard or else the range would severly get shortened. Anywys nirbhay is subsonic just like tomahawk/babur so should not matter but i would love to see how individually all othe systems avoids manpads and other anti missile systems from close range. May be Nirbhay can throw some surprise here on avoidance at real time basis.


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## kaykay

Skull and Bones said:


> A supersonic dash at the terminal stage has it's own advantage.


Well an off topic question here.
As we know that DRDO is now developing an anti aircraft carrier ballastic missile though we know nothing about it right now. So What's chances are there that they are modifying Shourya/Sagarika missile for that role? Also Dhanush ballastic missiles can also be used as anti ship role and already deployed/tested from some ships so Is it possible to further develop it with more range for anti aircraft carrier purpose?


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## MilSpec

Bratva said:


> No doubt what you have said is true. But supersonic doesn't go over 400 Km range is it and there is no variation in it's altitude weather it is at Hi-Hi-Hi, or Hi-Lo-Hi it moves at a predetermined height like 100-50-100 meters or 100-100-100 meters not like 100-80-50-120-30 meters
> 
> Terrain hugging means different in super sonic and sub sonic.
> 
> And as the distance increases chances of introduction of INS drift errors began to show right ? You need to keep missile on Path or if you want to change path, that's where GPS signalling chips in.
> 
> Without Navigation maps, if a mountain comes in b/w missile flight path and missile flying at say 100 meters, It wouldn't have a clue to avoid that obstacle That's where Tercom comes in, A map mated to digital altimeter to know exactly at which places to fly at low height and at which places to fly at higher height and that's the concept of Tercom. You could not achieve dynamic altitude variations without TERCOM and that's the concept of Sub sonic missile, fly low, avoid obstacles in path reach target. Without Navigation maps mated with digital altimeter how could Cruise missile avoid obstacles ?
> 
> DSMAC is concept, it depends upon the user how he wants to implement. Weather to use co-relator or go with an active seeker or IIR seeker. There are no two opinions on this one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*The missile maintained an accuracy better than 10 meters throughout it's path* and covered a
> distance of more than 1000 km"
> 
> Can you explain to me what does this line mean from DRDO press release ?


Dear, 

I have to sleep now, but I will reply tomorrow. 

thanks


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## RKO

Skull and Bones said:


> A supersonic dash at the terminal stage has it's own advantage.


ofcourse it has! Bt nirbhay is not meant for it..adding another stage at terminal phase may help!


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## shaheenmissile

Skull and Bones said:


> A supersonic dash at the terminal stage has it's own advantage.


yes but that will need the missile to carry an extra rocket motor all the way. Which is resource intensive. 


Lil Mathew said:


> With only using an altimeter how can a missile become terrain hugging???? Their should be a correlator comparing terrain contour with Altitude measured.. May be any other tech other than TERCOM.. Anyway Brahmos is terrain hugging according to Dr.Sivathanu Pillai..
> 
> Three services to have BrahMos missiles - The Hindu
> 
> MUMBAI: While the Navy has started inducting multi-role, supersonic cruise missile, BrahMos, in a big way, the Army and the Air Force are poised to follow suit to be able to `destabilise' critical targets with pinpoint accuracy.
> 
> "Army is very keen to have the missile and we are working on the `land to land' version of it for the Army," said Dr. A. Sivathanu Pillai, chief controller of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
> 
> Dr. Pillai is also the managing director of BrahMos Aerospace, an Indo-Russian joint venture that designed and developed the world's only supersonic cruise missile and is now engaged in its production and marketing. He was here to ceremoniously receive the first airframe section of BrahMos from the Chairman of Godrej and Boyce Mfg. Company, J.N. Godrej. About 20 Indian and seven Russian companies are making critical systems for the missile.
> 
> He said that the missile was undergoing critical tests to meet the Army's specific requirements to be able to take on different types of targets. The army version would have features like position updating, terrain-hugging, homing image analysis and higher degree of data processing .
> The Army is raising a special BrahMos Regiment of three batteries comprising a mobile launcher, mobile and fixed command centres besides other supporting facilities.
> 
> The Air Force has identified Su-30 Mk1 aircraft to be able to deliver air-launched version of the BrahMos. The air-launched version will be lighter in weight with its reduced booster. Dr. Pillai said that it would have the advantage of the speed of the platform itself. It would have fins for stability and a simplified nose.
> 
> He said that one BrahMos could be fitted under the belly of Su-30 without any structural modification. Two more could be added under the wings if they were upgraded. The Air Force has already accepted the feasibility report and the missile is being readied for test. The army version has already undergone two tests. Both the services would be able to induct the missile in a couple of years.
> 
> The BrahMos is a multiple-platform missile for the Navy. All new warships would be armed with the BrahMos and all big ships undergoing a refit would also get it, he said. The Navy would be able to fit even its land-based maritime reconnaissance aircraft, TU-142 for air to ship attacks while being on surveillance missions. The aircraft would be able to carry up to six BrahMos. The Navy has already fitted four two-tube missile launchers onboard INS Rajput, a Kashin class destroyer. All five warships of this class would get BrahMos.


Brahmos is a modified Yakhont and Yakhont does not have TERCOM.
For a missile travelling at mach 2+,it is not possible to make many changes to its course,and it is not possible to take Radar or visual pictures of the ground and then compare with internal database and then make adjustments to course. By the time the calculations have completed,the missile is way off due to speed. Other means are deployed in Supersonic missile,and these other modes of navigation are INS/Radar seekers and Satellite navigation.
Since Brahmos on ly flies for a short time,usually a good INS will do the job as INS error is proportionate to the time the missile has been flying,and Brahmos that time is very small,and INS accumulated error too will be very small.
Babur or Tomahawk which have to fly for long durations at slow speed and make many waypoint turns,and will need extra navigation systems for correcting accumulated error in INS.
Missiles like Brahmos don't do Terrain hugging.They fly at a certain average altitude,and don't do many way-points either.
The "S" maneuver is usually for last phase of flight when it wiggles to avoid enemy defensive fire.

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## Major Shaitan Singh

Some say's BGM-109 Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles (TLAMs) is the best in the world. The failure rate is quite high.







US officials said that the USS _Arleigh Burke_ in the Red Sea and the USS _Philippine Sea_ in the northern Gulf fired 47 TLAMs at positions used by the little-known Al-Qaeda affiliate called Khorasan west of the city of Aleppo on 22 September.
If two of the 47 TLAMs fired by the US Navy crashed on the way to their targets it would represent a failure rate of just more than 4%.






Brahmos has never failed. Nirbhay will follow the same.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Major Shaitan Singh said:


> Some say's BGM-109 Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles (TLAMs) is the best in the world. The failure rate is quite high.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US officials said that the USS _Arleigh Burke_ in the Red Sea and the USS _Philippine Sea_ in the northern Gulf fired 47 TLAMs at positions used by the little-known Al-Qaeda affiliate called Khorasan west of the city of Aleppo on 22 September.
> If two of the 47 TLAMs fired by the US Navy crashed on the way to their targets it would represent a failure rate of just more than 4%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brahmos has never failed. Nirbhay will follow the same.



Unlike Brahmos, Tomahawk is battle-proven plus Brahmos did fail some tests


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## gslv mk3

Bratva said:


> Don't believe what V K saraswat tells you.



Excuse me ?



shaheenmissile said:


> why is that after spending years harping about Hype-Ultra-Bazunga sonic Brahmos Missile.
> India "Lowers" her standards and make s measly Subsonic Cruise missile?





Bratva said:


> THe new Indian logic making rounds is. Due to economical reasons. Supersonic wala cost 5 million per piece and this sub sonic wala cause 1-1.5 million per piece


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## gslv mk3

Munir said:


> After reaching Mars with a lego packet (bought from others, guided by others) you suddenly want to jump ahead of the rest of the world



Non sense as usual.



Munir said:


> Reality is India can not produce a basic prop trainer.





Munir said:


> Not even able to produce a prop plane



Heard of HAL HT-2 which flew in 1948 ?Shut up.



Munir said:


> Busy with 3d generation aircraft since the 90's



LCA is a third generation aircraft ? explain why ?

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## shaheenmissile

Major Shaitan Singh said:


> Some say's BGM-109 Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles (TLAMs) is the best in the world. The failure rate is quite high.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US officials said that the USS _Arleigh Burke_ in the Red Sea and the USS _Philippine Sea_ in the northern Gulf fired 47 TLAMs at positions used by the little-known Al-Qaeda affiliate called Khorasan west of the city of Aleppo on 22 September.
> If two of the 47 TLAMs fired by the US Navy crashed on the way to their targets it would represent a failure rate of just more than 4%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brahmos has never failed. Nirbhay will follow the same.


Tomahawk has been fired 2000 times in real battles. How many times Brahmos has been fired?


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## Vinod2070

gslv mk3 said:


> Non sense as usual.
> 
> Heard of HAL HT-2 which flew in 1948 ?Shut up.
> 
> LCA is a third generation aircraft ? explain why ?



Such posts show why Pakistan is in the mess it is in.

There is just no desire to do anything positive. They seem to think that dissing India's achievements is enough!

And it is funny when these people talk of things (like Mars mission) so much above their aukat.

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## ChennaiDude

Vinod2070 said:


> That is correct.
> 
> Pakistan always conducts all its missile tests over its cities. They are sure of the test's success on all parameters.
> 
> Wonder why?


And then blame it on a Drone attack!

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## ChennaiDude

Buzungi said:


> Good luck endia



The best post of the day!..Being your 1st post....!


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## shaheenmissile

Vinod2070 said:


> Such posts show why Pakistan is in the mess it is in.
> 
> There is just no desire to do anything positive. They seem to think that dissing India's achievements is enough!
> 
> And it is funny when these people talk of things (like Mars mission) so much above their aukat.


You people are good at derailing a perfectly fine thread.....

In reply to your taunt..may i say


'says a person who is ruled by Hindu Balwaii"


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## Vinod2070

shaheenmissile said:


> You people are good at derailing a perfectly fine thread.....
> 
> In reply to your taunt..may i say



It was not specifically meant for you.

Check the post I replied to. See the ignorance of the self important ignorant.



> After reaching Mars with a lego packet (bought from others, guided by others) you suddenly want to jump ahead of the rest of the world



People who know the challenges and complexities involved would appreciate the magnitude of the achievement.

While ignorant jealous baboons will "taunt" like what this person did here.

But why does this person need to obsess with our Mars mission, even accounting for the ignorance and jahiliyat? What does it have to do with him and his ilk?



> 'says a person who is ruled by *Hindu *Balwaii"



I must congratulate you on being ruled by a great musllah leader. 

This obsession with religion shows us why we are so different people and countries and should have nothing to do with each other. You worry about your Ummah and invader heroes while we do what we need to.

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## gslv mk3

shaheenmissile said:


> You people are good at derailing a perfectly fine thread....



I don't think 'Munir' is an Indian,is he ?

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## gslv mk3

shaheenmissile said:


> the one thing we know about DRDO is that they are obsessed with complicating simple tasks to create hype and bravado.
> Exact opposite in Pakistan,we keep it simple. thats why done things years ago which Bharat is trying to do now.



Non sense



shaheenmissile said:


> that is your wet dream as of now.its not a fact.



Who told you ? see the range claimed by DRDO


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## Major Shaitan Singh

shaheenmissile said:


> Tomahawk has been fired 2000 times in real battles. How many times Brahmos has been fired?



Very Soon !!!... You will find Brahmos raining down in your neighbourhood and blowing buildings, airports, dam etc.


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## Gessler

63 pages and almost 1,000 posts...over a simple missile test. Why are Pakistanis so obsessed with India?


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## shaheenmissile

Gessler said:


> 63 pages and almost 1,000 posts...over a simple missile test. Why are Pakistanis so obsessed with India?


Then why dont you go hide in your Indian forum where nobody bothers to go. Just a couple of you inbreeding each other

.


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## kbd-raaf

shaheenmissile said:


> Then why dont you go hide in your Indian forum where nobody bothers to go. Just a couple of you inbreeding each other
> 
> .



Come on now, doesn't it sound a bit ironic for you, a Pakistani, to be talking about inbreeding?

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## kaku1

shaheenmissile said:


> Tomahawk has been fired 2000 times in real battles. How many times Brahmos has been fired?



Think so 100 times atleast. If you include all variants.


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## Judge

Bratva said:


> THe new Indian logic making rounds is. Due to economical reasons. Supersonic wala cost 5 million per piece and this sub sonic wala cause 1-1.5 million per piece


Cost, range and variety.

Brahmos is high impact, high cost missile to be used for time critical and/or high value targets
Nirbhay is (relatively)low impact, low cost missile with a much larger range - to be used in mass volleys.

Both are complementary and both have a role.


Bratva said:


> Epic fail is both of you brain dead indians didn't notice the Sarcasm in my post.
> 
> *Do you understand, in Past indians used to make an argument we don't need sub-sonic missile ? *I'm talking about 2005-2008 era when babur first came out and Indians were like we could shot it with our Akash SAM easily ?


Against Pakistan, the range and requirement of BrahMos is sufficient. Pakistan had a very small width geographically.

The additional range is needed for our Northern borders where distances are vast and a 300-500 kms ranged Brahmos will not get us far.


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## Gessler

shaheenmissile said:


> Then why dont you go hide in your Indian forum where nobody bothers to go. Just a couple of you inbreeding each other
> 
> .



Inbreeding is mainly a Pakistani thing.

Anyway that's not the answer to my question, let's not go off-topic here. Also look at the Agni-V thread...oh my god, it was one of the biggest things in PDF - hundreds & hundreds of pages of Chinese ranting about our missile - they were on special invite by the Pakistanis no doubt.

This is called obsession according to English dictionary.

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## shaheenmissile

Gessler said:


> Inbreeding is mainly a Pakistani thing.
> 
> Anyway that's not the answer to my question, let's not go off-topic here. Also look at the Agni-V thread...oh my god, it was one of the biggest things in PDF - hundreds & hundreds of pages of Chinese ranting about our missile - they were on special invite by the Pakistanis no doubt.
> 
> This is called obsession according to English dictionary.


Because here discussions are allowed,even about an enemy country. The little bubble you come from does not allow duscussions. There you can only praise Bharat mata and in Pakistan section only fake indians posing as Pakistanis,rubbishing Pakistan are allowed. So its understandable you certainly feel out of your comfort zone. Anhthing else you want to ask?


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## Judge

A.Rafay said:


> I'm just glad we didn't test fire Nasr this time.


To be honest with you, it was becoming slightly comical with Pakistan and Nasr.


India launches Moon mission - Pakistan launches Nasr the very next day.
India launches Mars mission - Pakistan launches Nasr the very next day.
India's Mars oribter reaches Mars - Pakistan launches Nasr the very next day.

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## Gessler

shaheenmissile said:


> Because here discussions are allowed,even about an enemy country. The little bubble you come from does not allow duscussions. There you can only praise Bharat mata and in Pakistan section only fake indians posing as Pakistanis,rubbishing Pakistan are allowed. So its understandable you certainly feel out of your comfort zone. Anhthing else you want to ask?



That does not answer why Indian missile threads span hundreds of pages. It also shows that while Indians are willing
to venture out of our comfort zone to enter the forums of "enemy nations", you guys don't appear anywhere outside
Pak forums. Do not dispute the fact that without Indian contribution this forum wouldn't be halfway where it is now.

Yes discussions do happen in Indian forums too - the Eurofighter Typhoon v/s Dassault Rafale thread for example
is one of internet's longest-spanning aerospace technical discussion threads where high-end tech knowledge is presented.

*But why are Pakistanis/Chinese filling Indian missile threads in PDF with rants & trolls?*

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## Kinetic

Judge said:


> To be honest with you, it was becoming slightly comical with Pakistan and Nasr.
> 
> 
> India launches Moon mission - Pakistan launches Nasr the very next day.
> India launches Mars mission - Pakistan launches Nasr the very next day.
> India's Mars oribter reaches Mars - Pakistan launches Nasr the very next day.




Nasr seems like answer from Pakistan against India's planetary missions.


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## Judge

Kinetic said:


> Nasr seems like answer from Pakistan against India's planetary missions.


No. I think the reason is more complex. 
@A.Rafay 
It was my understanding that whenever India launches a complex space mission, the media in Pakistan covers it and they start asking uncomfortable questions about why Pakistan is lagging behind.

But if you launch the Nasr or any other missile, the media gets diverted to cover it. The talk shows start focusing on how this will protect Pakistan and defeat any 'evil intentions' India might have.
The less aware of the people will think that Nasr was an effective tit-for-tat response to India firing a rocket. 'Pakistan nay jawab diya'

Basically, it will keep the Pakistani populace occupied and less aware.

So Nasr serves as a great tool for the establishment in more ways than one.


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## shaheenmissile

Judge said:


> No. I think the reason is more complex.
> @A.Rafay
> It was my understanding that whenever India launches a complex space mission, the media in Pakistan covers it and they start asking uncomfortable questions about why Pakistan is lagging behind.
> 
> But if you launch the Nasr or any other missile, the media gets diverted to cover it. The talk shows start focusing on how this will protect Pakistan and defeat any 'evil intentions' India might have.
> The less aware of the people will think that Nasr was an effective tit-for-tat response to India firing a rocket. 'Pakistan nay jawab diya'
> 
> Basically, it will keep the Pakistani populace occupied and less aware.
> 
> So Nasr serves as a great tool for the establishment in more ways than one.


It works for the people of Pakistan and that's what matters. An average Pakistani doesn't know and doesn't care about the technical nitty gritty. As long as Pakistan launches something in response to India's something...they are happy.

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## amardeep mishra

shaheenmissile said:


> Brahmos is a modified Yakhont and Yakhont does not have TERCOM



hi
Brahmos might not have a tercom guidance scheme but it definitely has a terminal seeker and it does navigate through certain finite number of way points to reach itz target- to be honest,a missile like brahmos with active radar seeker suits navy(specifically for anti-shipping roles) (and to some extent air force) better than other forces- for land attack though missiles like tomhawk,nirbhay and babur make more sense



shaheenmissile said:


> It works for the people of Pakistan and that's what matters. *An average Pakistani doesn't know and doesn't care about the technical nitty gritty. As long as Pakistan launches something in response to India's something...they are happy.*



While an average pakistani doesnt care about the missile,the military establishment in pakistan would be doing criminal negligence if they fail to take note of *pace of evolution of technology* in the enemy country(in this case india)


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## sathya

shaheenmissile said:


> Tomahawk has been fired 2000 times in real battles. How many times Brahmos has been fired?



Around 50 I think...

That's a good number don't you think .?


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## kaku1

amardeep mishra said:


> hi
> Brahmos might not have a tercom guidance scheme but it definitely has a terminal seeker and it does navigate through certain finite number of way points to reach itz target- to be honest,a missile like brahmos with active radar seeker suits navy(specifically for anti-shipping roles) (and to some extent air force) better than other forces- for land attack though missiles like tomhawk,nirbhay and babur make more sense



In your sense, then most of the navy role is AShW, and not land attack. 

One thing I want to ask, how the BrahMos make more sense to Navy and not Army,, and how the Nirbhay role is more specified to Army?


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## amardeep mishra

kaku1 said:


> In your sense, then most of the navy role is AShW, and not land attack.
> 
> One thing I want to ask, how the BrahMos make more sense to Navy and not Army,, and how the Nirbhay role is more specified to Army?



Hi kaku!
I think you didnt get the essence of my post,what i was alluding to when i mentioned that brahmos is "more relevant for navy vis-a-vis for any other forces" is,brahmos is highly capable anti-ship missile and for land attack role missiles like nirbhay/tomhawk suit better.
As for your comment regarding bulk of navy's role,- i'd like to add that the priority of navy's role is determined by the planners and the naval HQ,we can only contemplate certain aspects.
I guess,you completely missed my point and that was- for land attack role nirbhay is much better whereas for anti-ship roles,brahmos is better- hope i have made myself abundantly clear?


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## Didact

amardeep mishra said:


> Hi kaku!
> I think you didnt get the essence of my post,what i was alluding to when i mentioned that brahmos is "more relevant for navy vis-a-vis for any other forces" is,brahmos is highly capable anti-ship missile and for land attack role missiles like nirbhay/tomhawk suit better.
> As for your comment regarding bulk of navy's role,- i'd like to add that the priority of navy's role is determined by the planners and the naval HQ,we can only contemplate certain aspects.
> I guess,you completely missed my point and that was- for land attack role nirbhay is much better whereas for anti-ship roles,brahmos is better- hope i have made myself abundantly clear?



Flawed logic. 

The weapon effectiveness is contingent on nature of target and the nature of air defense assets to be encountered en route, in addition to it's own characteristics. As such, sweeping statements for or against one platform is meaningless.

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## Stephen Cohen

Didact said:


> Flawed logic.
> 
> The weapon effectiveness is contingent on nature of target and the nature of air defense assets to be encountered en route, in addition to it's own characteristics. As such, sweeping statements for or against one platform is meaningless.



In India Pak ; and India China context ALL the Important targets are on Land

@amardeep mishra

The Army and Airforce will use Brahmos along with other missiles and munitions 
but the sheer value of assets on the land such as Airfields; Command and control centres
Factories ; Radars and SAM sites ; logistic nodes
is much more than the cost of a frigate of Pakistan navy


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## amardeep mishra

[QUOTE="Didact, post: 6608294, member: 156751"*]The weapon effectiveness is contingent on nature of target and the nature of air defense assets to be encountered en route, in addition to it's own characteristics*. As such, sweeping statements for or against one platform is meaningless.[/QUOTE]

It is NOT a flawed logic,for you yourself state what i was saying in my previous comments in a different manner- to take out a ship with all the SAMs and CIWS you would need a faster weapon that renders excruciatingly small time window to the defence systems to react~ hence a supersonic brahmos is ideally more suitable in this case (and even better than various subsonic AShMs available)
But to engage a static land target at longer ranges a subsonic missile like nirbhay is more suitable vis-a-vis brahmos(simply because of being lighter,longer range~resulting in higher stand off margins,tercom guidance(something that brahmos lacks) . For if that wasnt true US with all the resources and money in the world wouldnt be "heavily relying" on subsonic tomhawks to take out land targets deep within the enemy territory


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## Didact

amardeep mishra said:


> [QUOTE="Didact, post: 6608294, member: 156751"*]The weapon effectiveness is contingent on nature of target and the nature of air defense assets to be encountered en route, in addition to it's own characteristics*. As such, sweeping statements for or against one platform is meaningless.



It is NOT a flawed logic,for you yourself state what i was saying in my previous comments in a different manner- to take out a ship with all the SAMs and CIWS you would need a faster weapon that renders excruciatingly small time window to the defence systems to react~ hence a supersonic brahmos is ideally more suitable in this case (and even better than various subsonic AShMs available)
But to engage a static land target at longer ranges a subsonic missile like nirbhay is more suitable vis-a-vis brahmos(simply because of being lighter,longer range~resulting in higher stand off margins,tercom guidance(something that brahmos lacks) . For if that wasnt true US with all the resources and money in the world wouldnt be "heavily relying" on subsonic tomhawks to take out land targets deep within the enemy territory[/QUOTE]

Again, incorrect. *You are using very specific situations to make generalized statements. *That by itself would be enough to act as a dis-qualifier for your statement.

For the Naval role, *speed by itself will not be the only, nor the primary factor in determining available reaction time for the target vessel*. A BrahMos AShM flying at 2.8M at 30,000 ft would be in the line-of-sight of a radar right after launch (LOS of radar at 10m altitude for the missile at 30K ft. = 368 km) 

A Harpoon or Klub (sub sonic AShMs) flying at 50 ft. at 0.7-0.8M will only break into the LOS of a ship mounted radar at around 30-40 Km away from the ship. 

You can do the math and find out which missile will be detected first, i.e. allow a longer reaction time for the target vessel. 

This is one of the reasons why Western Navies still persist with Sub sonic AShMs. This is also one of the reasons why very few AShMs with very long ranges even exist, and also why these AShMs generally have a super sonic terminl speed. The trade off with increased speed versus higher visibility not being worth the payoff in their opinion. 

*There is also a counter view to these points I've made, and they are equally convincing to this writer. It is precisely due the myriad of complexities that one needs to very careful while making sweeping statements. *

I hope I've made myself clear.

And yeah, *land is just another generalization, and meaningless in the current context. Land manifests itself as a mesh of infinite terrains/contours. And as such, terrain itself becomes a very important parameter, unlike in the case of sea strike missiles.* In short, it's even more difficult.


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