# KFX/IFX News and Development



## Indos

Seems work on KAI's KF-X project is coming along (courtesy of Google Translate): 







"Korea Aerospace Industries is the final model of the next Korean fighter (KF-X) which was revealed to the experts through the Korea Military Technology Society seminar held recently in Jeju Island. All of the development teams completed seven model development processes to produce the final model C109. The end of the wind tunnel test and the final model means that the internal design has been completed. / Photo provided by Dipants Times Korea

The Korean fighter aircraft (KF-X) development project will be in full swing and the final shape of the aircraft will be revealed at the end of this month. 

The Defense Agency and Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) will release the KF-X final model and AESA radar tentative on 29th. The design type name of the KF-X final model is C-109. The development team is known to have completed the design of the final model C 109 in two and a half years by conducting a wind tunnel test based on the basic data handed down from the Defense Science Research Institute (ADD) and producing a new model every six months. 

The fact that the final model has been completed means that not only has the wind speed laboratory tested the maximum speed of the gas and the stability of the gas in each flight environment, but also that the internal design has been completed. The C109 exterior identification point, which was recently presented at the Korea Military Technology Society Seminar held in Jeju Island, is the addition of the Active Pia Identification Device (AIFF) near the refueling station just before the pilot's seat. It is interpreted as a signal that specific functions have begun to be installed. KF-X development has been proceeding somewhat faster than expected, even in difficult conditions such as rejection of core technology transfer by US and disagreement inside Indonesia which is a joint development partner. 

The airframe is larger than the original design and the weight is increased. = When the development team first started to design the basic shape, the model was C103. The National Defense Science Institute was a gas designed by detailed simulation at the stage of exploration and development and was designed by computer simulation without actual modeling or wind tunnel test. From ADD, the development team, which received three basic drawings, including C103 and C104, made a direct reduction model from the C105 experimental gas and entered the wind tunnel test. After the test, the size of the airframe increased and the total take-off weight increased. 

From the third wind tunnel test model C107, the length of the gas was increased by about 1 m from the initial design. The take-off weight of the final model C109 after wind tunnel test is 25,855 kg. It is more than a medium-sized fighter, not alittle over 20,000 kg, which was mentioned at the beginning of development. The F-18A / B Hornet has a maximum take-off weight of 24,000 kg and the F-18E / F Super Hornet is twenty-nine thousand kilograms. 

There is no bad reputation for giving up the miniaturization because there is no technology, but it is expected to show its ability as a multi-purpose fighter capable of performing various functions such as air-to-air, air-to-ground, and engineering. It is rated at least two steps ahead of the Air Force's current flagship F-16 fighter. Stealth capabilities and AESA radar's ability to function can increase your attack power even further. 

Hidden meaning of the completion of the final model = The test made in the large wind tunnel laboratory by making the miniature model test the maximum speed, the gas stability and motility at high speed and low speed, the thrust receiving the main wing and the tail wing according to the shape. This experiment determined the position of the engine and the shape of the inside and outside of the air intake. In the wind tunnel tests of each model, the detail changes were numerous, but the development team changed into the five-scale reduction model and produced the final model. An official from the development team said, "Basically, all internal and external designs including radar, avionics and engines, as well as various armed mounts, have been completed in the first place." 

Remaining Schedule = Even if the final model came out, the wind tunnel experiment will continue. "A wind tunnel experimentfrom now on is another dimension," an official from the Korea-based fighter business development team said. "We will accumulate various data necessary for actual flight and use it for automatic computer control." The first AESA radar to be completed and the integration of various aviation equipment is also in the track. Even though the basic design is over, this game is starting now. Indonesia, which was uncertain as to whether it would continue to do business, has recently reaffirmed its principle that a joint development project with Korea is needed at the Cabinet meeting. Indonesia is participating in joint development by investing 20% ??of total project cost and purchasing 60 units. The development team will begin detailed design (CDR) work from the second half as soon as possible. It is several months earlier than the original schedule. KF-X is scheduled for release in 2021 and the first flight in 2022."

Original news: 
http://www.sedaily.com/NewsView/1S0TIC8G6S/GE05

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Indos

Google Translate
*
[KFX-X] Fifth generation fighter ... Stealthy road opens up possibility of evolution*

<44> Korean type fighter business finished basic design
Disclosure of final figure of fighter project team
Appearance similar to F-22 Raptor
There's a lot of overhangs.
AESA radar, navigation device, etc.
Performance is better than expected
Stealth function when technology advances






The Korean fighter (KF-X) business has crossed the first gate. The basic design is finished. Although the detailed design procedure for about 14 months has been left, the overall outline is actually confirmed. As the Defense Agency announced on December 29, the basic framework of the KF-X project was completed. The final shape released by the Korean-style fighter group shows distinctive features. It is not a stealth aircraft that I expected from the first place, but it seems to have a performance that surpasses that of the F-16 fighter. In particular, if not for the time being, the time has passed and technology development has progressed, leaving room for evolution to stealth.

◇ It looks like the F-22 Raptor ... The code number of the final shape proposed by the Agency is C 109. The C 101, C 201 (triangular wing and cannon attachment type), C 102, C 103, proposed from 2004 when the possibility was examined, The C104, C106, C107, and C108, which have been fully reflected in the C104 and wind tunnel tests, have all combined the advantages of all the designs so far. As the experiment was repeated, the shape of KF-X was greatly changed and two characteristics were observed. First, the size. The length of the fuselage was at least 1 m longer than when it was first conceived. The engine has also returned from twin to twin. The second is design. More and more American fighters are becoming similar. Some F-22 Raptor fighters are similar in appearance to the US Air Force's prized and operated fighters, and some people call themselves "Baby Raptors." But performance is not. It is expected that stronger fighter planes will come out than originally planned due to the high level of demand of the Air Force, but the comparison with the Raptor is impossible.

◇ Fifth-generation stealth, not the 4.5th generation fighter = one of the clean (unarmed) state Stealth performance of the F-35 will be expected, but the reality is different. Above all, the protruding part in the final shape is noticeable. The first thing that comes to your attention is the Active Pia Identifier (AIFF) in front of the cockpit. It is similar in appearance to the IFA, which is installed in front of the cockpit of the KF-16. An infrared detection and tracking device (IRST) protrudes immediately behind the pie identification device. IRST is an infrared tracking device that detects and detects infrared rays emitted by enemy aircraft or missiles. It is difficult to know whether or not the opponent uses the IRST of the fighter. In air-to-air combat, the bandit greatly increases survivability by detecting infrared signals when it tries to launch a missile.

The disturbing antenna attached to the vertical tail wing is also protruding. Moreover, the electronic pod ran externally just below the fuselage. Armament is also externally mounted. Although the size of the aircraft was larger than that of the originally proposed armed forces, four air-to-air missiles were half-landed. If there are many sharp or protruding parts, the possibility of being caught on enemy detection radar is increased as much. Fifth-generation stealth fighters, such as the F-22 and F-35, integrated all of these devices with the fuselage and put the weapon inside to reduce the area of the attack.

An official of the development team said, "There is space to make space for internal armed windows and change all avionics equipment to conformal type." "Now we are developing and integrating each technology into the field of making the first full-scale fighter aircraft." . In order for the KF-X to have a stealth function, it must wait until the block 2, or block 3, is produced. However, no one can guarantee that we will be able to go to Block 2 and Block 3 at any time. The level of technology is also a matter of concern, but it has not been discussed at all in the mid to long term.

◇ Performance of AESA radar is expected to be higher than expected. It is said that development of various kinds of equipment including AESA radar, which started from suspicion, is underway. The AESA radar is not based on the whole foreign technology, but it is developed by the domestic engineers in cooperation with the technology of Israel and Sweden, and it performs a comprehensive performance test such as air-to-air, air-to-ground, and engineering. The number of modules that determine the performance of the AESA radar is not far behind that of the latest radars overseas. "The number of modules in block 1 is 1,024," said a development team official. This is similar to the latest AESA radar to be installed, as the F-16 fighter aircraft operated by the ROKAF is converted to the F-16V format.

Given the latest radar, navigation, and increased take-off weight, the KF-X is expected to surpass the F-16's performance. Compared with the time when the idea of developing a single-shot machine based on the T-50 advanced trainer was used as a base, it was a sky and a land. It means that the demands of the military and the air force were so high and high. The problem is that there are a lot of hurricanes left. Even though the joint development project with Indonesia is released properly, considering that it is not the design period but the production and test flight, it is a little more than a small stream because the problem is usually revealed when developing a new type.

■ The basic design termination means

Final confirmation that basic performance required by the army is reflected

Detailed design in September next year ... First time prototype in 2021

A basic design review (PDR) is a procedure that confirms whether the system requirements and system functional requirements required by the military can be reflected in the high-level design. The Defense Agency has held a basic design review meeting for development of the KF-X system from March 26 to 28, and confirmed that all the basic performance required by the military, including the fighter plane, was reflected. In January, 2016, KF-X started development work, and in March of that year, it reviewed the system requirements review (SRR), and in December it completed the system function review (SFR). At the PDR meeting, the review committee composed of the Air Force, civilian experts and Indonesian officials confirmed that the requirements of the Air Force were appropriately reflected in 230 technical data, including the KF-X system specification.

Upon completion of the basic design process, the KF-X business has entered the 'detailed design (CDR)' phase, which produces the actual designs to build fighter jets. "We plan to complete the detailed design by September 2019 through thorough business management and to start production of the prototype without any problem," said Chung Kwang-sung, head of the Korean fighter business group. As soon as possible, it will start production of KF-X from next October. The first goal of the tentative release of Tense 1 is in the first half of 2021. In the second half of 2022, the first flight test will be completed and the development will be completed by 2026.


<Copyright owner ⓒ Seoul Economy, Reprint without permission and redistribution> D

Source: http://www.sedaily.com/NewsView/1S0ZX8CNSD


----------



## Indos

*Meggitt expands involvement in KFX programme*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
11 September 2018


UK company Meggitt has increased its involvement on the South Korean programme to develop the KFX multirole fighter aircraft through a new supply contract announced on 10 September.

In a press release, Meggitt said it will develop an engine vibration monitoring unit (EVMU) for KFX prototypes currently under construction by prime contractor Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI).

Chris Allen, president of Meggitt Sensing Systems, said, “This contract builds on the development work we have been undertaking with KAI on innovative technology for the KFX. We look forward to continuing our partnership and developing and delivering state of the art prototypes.”

The newly announced contract is one of several that Meggitt has secured on the KFX development programme.

https://www.janes.com/article/82887/meggitt-expands-involvement-in-kfx-programme

@AlohanAkua please contribute........

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

KFX/IFX Production hangar in PT Dirgantara Indonesia

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Surabaya, 25 September 2017

*The Development of KFX/IFX Fighter Aircrafts, PT DI Visits Infoglobal*
Marketing Infoglobal



_Husein Ahmad Alatas (two from right) also PT DI officers together with Colonel Tech. Dedi Laksmono (Ditjen Pothan Kemhan) observe Infoglobal avionics at Infoglobal Workshop, Jl. Dinoyo 105, Surabaya (25/09). (photo by:LFT)
_
On Monday, 25 September 2017, Husein Ahmad Alatas, Senior Engineer Indonesian Aerospace (PT DI) and also his staffs, visit Infoglobal Workshop, at Jl. Raya Dinoyo 105, Surabaya. This visit is also followed by Colonel Tech. Dedi Laksmono as Directorate-General of Defence Potentials at the Ministry of Defence (Ditjen Pothan Kemhan) officer.

This work visit is to present KFX/IFX program to Infoglobal. Bilqis Fitria Salsabiela, International Collaboration KFX/IFX, said that IFX/KFX program is a program from Indonesia government in cooperating with Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) to develop and manufacture KFX/IFX fighter aircraft. Hopefully, with this program, Indonesia could get Transfer of Technology (ToT) in manufacturing fighter aircraft. So, Indonesia can produce the fighter aircraft independently. Currently, KFX/IFX program enters its second year in Engineering Manufacturing Development (EMD) phase.

This program is also an inspection towards Infoglobal competencies and readiness in the development of KFX/IFX aircraft. By visiting Infoglobal, PT DI as Indonesian Industrial Participant (IIP) pointed by government through Balitbang Kemhan could depict about potential sectors and review the national readiness to manufacture fighter aircraft.

Infoglobal as one of defense industries capable of developing and manufacturing aircraft avionics. Ahmad Fauzi, Infoglobal Marketing Representative, in this chance, explains about avionics that are developed and made by Infoglobal. Those avionics are Miniature Standard Central Air Data Computer (MSCADC) that can been used on F-5. Digital Video Recorder (DVR) installed on F-5, F-16, Hawk 100 and Hawk 200 fighter aircrafts. Multi Purpose Cockpit Display (MPCD) and Inertial Navigation System/Global Navigation Satellite System (INS/GNSS) that can be used in Hawk 100/200 fighter aircraft. Rear Cockpit Monitor (RCM) used in Hawk 100. Also Weapon Control Board (WCB), Weapon Programming Instrument (WPI) and Radar Monitor Unit (RMU) that can be used in Hawk 200.

Infoglobal also develops mission system for Maritime Patrol Aircraft. The mission system is named Tactical Patrol Mission.

Not only avionics, Ahmad Fauzi also explains that Infoglobal also produce defense application, named Soyus Wargaming System used by Air Force Staff and Command School (Seskoau) to train strategic and military operation plans.

Besides that, Infoglobal also has competencies in radar data processing by developing Transmission Data Air Situation (TDAS). TDAS is a aircraft traffic monitoring system that integrates civil and military radars and this system has been used by National Air Defence Command (Kohanudnas).

Col. Tech. Dedi Laksmono said that with this inspection hoped the development and manufacturing KFX/IFX fighter aircrafts later can implement the requirement of Tingkat Kandungan Dalam Negeri (TKDN) that should reach minimum of 40%. Those can be implemented by involving domestic defense industries, one of them is Infoglobal

http://infoglobal.co.id/id/detailnews/95

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Yingluck

No one other than USA, EU, Russia and China is capable of jet engine.


----------



## KapitaanAli

Yingluck said:


> No one other than USA, EU, Russia and China is capable of jet engine.


You've to specify class and type. Such an abstract argument.


----------



## Indos

Yingluck said:


> No one other than USA, EU, Russia and China is capable of jet engine.



Yap, the engine will be General Electric. It will be GE F 414 turbofan that is also used in F 18 E/F Superhornet. Actually Iran can also make jet engine for aircraft

Old news 

*South Korea Picks GE To Provide Engines for Fighters*
By: Agence France-Presse   May 26, 2016




*Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) has been selected by South KoreaÕs Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) to develop the KF-X fighter.*

SEOUL, South Korea — South Korea has chosen US conglomerate General Electric (GE) over a European competitor as the preferred bidder to supply engines for a multibillion-dollar fighter jet project, government officials said.

"Our plan is to finalize a contract in June," a spokesman at the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) told AFP.

GE Aviation was chosen over a European Eurojet consortium that included Rolls-Royce Holdings and MTU Aero Engines AG.

South Korea is looking to develop a fleet of 120 "indigenous" next-generation, multirole fighter jets over the next 10 years to replace its aging fleet of F-4 and F-5 fighters imported from the United States.

The Korean Fighter Experimental (KF-X) program has an 18 trillion won (US $15.2 billion) budget, with Indonesia signing on board as a junior partner earlier this year.

Indonesia would cover about 20 percent of the cost, with up to 100 Indonesian workers taking part in the development and production process.

While DAPA will be the government agency supervising the project, Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) will lead the industrial team that is tasked with bringing the program to fruition.

KAI won the development tender in March last year with a bid made in partnership with US aerospace giant Lockheed Martin.

South Korea had sought to tap into 25 fighter jet technologies owned by Lockheed Martin, but the US government prohibited the export of four of them — including the sensitive technology to build active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.


----------



## rambro

Its a copy of f-22
Kidding, Cant help it as it is trending.

Stealth or semi Stealth?


----------



## Indos

rambro said:


> Its a copy of f-22
> Kidding, Cant help it as it is trending.
> 
> Stealth or semi Stealth?



Yup I think it is a bit copy of F 22 and the design is still legal since Lockheed Martin is also in the program. Semi Stealth for block 1, and full stealth for block 2 and 3 (based on plan). I think Malaysia is going to be interested with this plane if the program can be realized.


----------



## Indos

Indonesia wants to have its own IFF system for its IFX. So it is likely to be developed by PT LEN, Indonesia state owned enterprise specialized on electronics.

*LenIFF*

*IDENTIFY FRIEND OR FOE*





IFF equipment, used with search radars, permits automatic identification of targets before they are near enough to threaten the security of a friendly craft. In addition to friendly identification, IFF systems also provide other information such as type of craft ,squadron, side number, mission, and aircraft altitude.

Interrogator section. The major units of the interrogator section (except the video decoder group) are usually mounted in a rack located in the radar equipment room. The Interrogator Set, provides rf challenges for the various modes. It also receives transponder replies and processes them into proper video signals for application to the decoders and indicators .The ICC crypto, encodes NSM challenges for transmission by the interrogator. It also decodes the received NSM transponder replies. The code changer key(programmer), inserts the NSM code into the computer.

https://www.len.co.id/leniff/


----------



## Indos

Google Translate (News is in Indonesian)

Kompas.com - 19/10/2018, 13:37 WIB

*Indonesia wants to Renegotiate KFX / IFX program
*





The government submitted a renegotiation regarding the development of the Korean Fighter Xperiment / KF / IFX fighter aircraft with the South Korean Government. The renegotiation was carried out taking into account Indonesia's current economic conditions. "With the national economic conditions, the President decided not to cancel, but renegotiate or renegotiate. How Indonesia's position can be lighter for issues related to financing," said Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Human Rights Affairs Wiranto, after the coordination meeting. in his office in Jakarta, Friday (10/19/2018). Wiranto said the government would form a team to discuss the points for renegotiating the development of the aircraft.

The team will be chaired by Wiranto himself. "Surely this will have an impact on how the previous agreement that we talked about. Today we are close because the President ordered the Police to chair the renegotiation team to the South Korean side," Wiranto said. Some points that will be negotiated are related to financing, production costs, marketing, to technology transfer to intellectual property rights. Wiranto hopes that within a year, this renegotiation discussion can be resolved.

The cooperation in developing fighter aircraft KF-X / IF-X was started by the Government of Indonesia and the Republic of Korea, March 9, 2009. The total project funding until 2026 is planned to be around 8 billion US dollars and divided between South Korea (80 percent) and Indonesia ( 20 percent).

This article has been published on Kompas.com with the title "The Government Negotiates the Development of KFX / IFX Combat Jets with South Korea", https://nasional.kompas.com/read/2018/10/19/13372821/pemerintah-negoti-ulang- development-jet-fighter-kfxifx-with-carousel.
Author: Ihsanuddin
Editor: Sabrina Asril


----------



## Indos

The good news is that the president decided not to cancel the program, but rather renegotiate the term. AlhamduliLLAH.


----------



## Indos

A bit old news but it is important to bring in this special thread

*South Korea signals AESA progression*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
01 June 2018






South Korea is moving to the critical design phase of its programme to develop an AESA radar system for the Korean Fighter Experimental (KFX) aircraft, which is scheduled to be produced from the mid-2020s. Source: Korea Aerospace Industries
South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) has signalled progression in its programme to develop an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar system in collaboration with local industry.

DAPA said in a statement on 31 May that its radar programme – intended to support the Korean Fighter Experimental (KFX) aircraft – has completed a two-year preliminary design phase and will now move to the critical design stage before a design review in May 2019.

Following the design review, DAPA hopes to produce a pilot prototype in 2020, which will be installed on early prototypes of the KFX from 2022. After several years of trials, DAPA aims to start initial production of both the aircraft and its AESA radar from the mid-2020s.

Under a KRW360 billion (USD334 million) contract awarded in mid-2016, the AESA development programme is led by Hanwha Systems, which is collaborating with the Agency for Defense Development (ADD), a DAPA subsidiary. Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI), as lead developer of the KFX, is also involved in the programme.

KAI has previously outlined a target to produce about 250 twin-engine KFX fighter aircraft to replace the Republic of Korea Air Force’s (RoKAF’s) F-4E Phantom and F-5E Tiger II aircraft and, ultimately, its F-16 Fighting Falcon platforms. KAI also expects to export several hundred KFX fighters.

https://www.janes.com/article/80552/south-korea-signals-aesa-progression


----------



## AViet

Congratulation to Indonesia. it will be the first in South East Asia to manufacture fighter jet (in mass scale level), if the project is going to succeed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

AViet said:


> Congratulation to Indonesia. it will be the first in South East Asia to manufacture fighter jet (in mass scale level), if the project is going to succeed.



Thanks mate. Actually if successful, the program will give many benefit to Indonesia inshaALLAH. Not only in manufacturing some part and assembling process, but also in designing capability of our engineers. In this regard, the capability to design Stealth aircraft. In the first phase of development there are around 30 designers participated and now as the project enters its second phase, there have been around 80 designers who are participating. In the peak of development, there will be 200 Indonesian engineers participating according to Indonesian official. 200 engineers who has experience to design Stealth fighter will be our biggest asset in our aviation industry.

Beside that there is possibility that this aircraft use radar absorbent material, if this is the case I hope Indonesian engineers get transfer of technology as Indonesian has the right to produce some part of the fighter according to the agreement. PT Dirgantara Indonesia who is involved in the program also want to have the ability to up grade the aircraft. If we have up grade capability it also means that our air force will get some boost as it will be difficult to predict our air force capability as upgrading can be done in secret.

So I hope the program can be successful and able to produce a lethal and sophisticated fighter.


----------



## AViet

Why not? Besh wiahes from Vietnam. Waiting for the first stealth fighter manufactured in South East Áia.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 帅的一匹

South Korea is dead fish without USA help.



AViet said:


> Why not? Besh wiahes from Vietnam. Waiting for the first stealth fighter manufactured in South East Áia.


this project had lots of uncertainty, it depends on American attitude.


----------



## Viet

Indos said:


> Thanks mate. Actually if successful, the program will give many benefit to Indonesia inshaALLAH. Not only in manufacturing some part and assembling process, but also in designing capability of our engineers. In this regard, the capability to design Stealth aircraft. In the first phase of development there are around 30 designers participated and now as the project enters its second phase, there have been around 80 designers who are participating. In the peak of development, there will be 200 Indonesian engineers participating according to Indonesian official. 200 engineers who has experience to design Stealth fighter will be our biggest asset in our aviation industry.
> 
> Beside that there is possibility that this aircraft use radar absorbent material, if this is the case I hope Indonesian engineers get transfer of technology as Indonesian has the right to produce some part of the fighter according to the agreement. PT Dirgantara Indonesia who is involved in the program also want to have the ability to up grade the aircraft. If we have up grade capability it also means that our air force will get some boost as it will be difficult to predict our air force capability as upgrading can be done in secret.
> 
> So I hope the program can be successful and able to produce a lethal and sophisticated fighter.


it’s not realistic. Korea and Indonesia lack major components, without them the jet will be a dead fish, as the Chinese poster above says. The best thing Korea and Indonesia can do is designing the hull by copying the F35 design, while hoping the US and other western companies will provide everything else from engine to avionics to landing gear. I am pretty sure Vietnam engineers can develop a prototype of a stealth fighter, too. Actually everyone can.

F35 will cost $80 million a piece by 2020. It’s better to buy F35 then spending billions USD on developing an inferior copy. at the end you would probably pay 120 million USD a piece for a lame domestic bird with downgraded western tech.


----------



## AViet

Viet said:


> it’s not realistic. Korea and Indonesia lack major components, without them the jet will be a dead fish, as the Chinese poster above says. The best thing Korea and Indonesia can do is designing the hull by copying the F35 design, while hoping the US and other western companies will provide everything else from engine to avionics to landing gear. I am pretty sure Vietnam engineers can develop a prototype of a stealth fighter, too. Actually everyone can.
> 
> F35 will cost $80 million a piece by 2020. It’s better to buy F35 then spending billions USD on developing an inferior copy. at the end you would probably pay 120 million USD a piece for a lame domestic bird with downgraded western tech.



The West (and their paid mouthpiece) always says the same things about every other ones, which is going to compete with them, from the Soviets, then Japan, then China, then perhaps Korea and Indonesia. Your words are not welcome here.

The IQ=95 American can only design and manufacture a poorly quality F-35, but I believe Korean + Indonesian can make a better one, given time and money, plus political will (the most important), just like Japanese Mitsubishi F2 was actually superior than F-16 (although it was designed to replace F-16). But unfortunately, Japanese government was (and is) just a lapdog of the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## eldamar

AViet said:


> The West (and their paid mouthpiece) always says the same things about every other ones, which is going to compete with them, from the Soviets, then Japan, then China, then perhaps Korea and Indonesia. Your words are not welcome here.
> 
> The IQ=95 American can only design and manufacture a poorly quality F-35, but I believe Korean + Indonesian can make a better one, given time and money, plus political will (the most important), just like Japanese Mitsubishi F2 was actually superior than F-16 (although it was designed to replace F-16). But unfortunately, Japanese government was (and is) just a lapdog of the US.



He said all the internal organs of the plane would be western made, which going by both de facto n past track record- is true. Even the engine in the fa50 today is GE 404.

How come u r not refuting his points head on directly?Blablablabla~ just a bunch of longwinded, evasive, angry n rant-tiful roundabouts.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

AViet said:


> The West (and their paid mouthpiece) always says the same things about every other ones, which is going to compete with them, from the Soviets, then Japan, then China, then perhaps Korea and Indonesia. Your words are not welcome here.
> 
> The IQ=95 American can only design and manufacture a poorly quality F-35, but I believe Korean + Indonesian can make a better one, given time and money, plus political will (the most important), just like Japanese Mitsubishi F2 was actually superior than F-16 (although it was designed to replace F-16). But unfortunately, Japanese government was (and is) just a lapdog of the US.


What components of the future KFX jet will be made in Korea? What idea and components Indonesia will contribute into the jet development?

Set aside your rants as well as some fancy drawings we have seen, people won’t see much worthy.

Or do I miss anything?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nike

Viet said:


> it’s not realistic. Korea and Indonesia lack major components, without them the jet will be a dead fish, as the Chinese poster above says. The best thing Korea and Indonesia can do is designing the hull by copying the F35 design, while hoping the US and other western companies will provide everything else from engine to avionics to landing gear.* I am pretty sure Vietnam engineers can develop a prototype of a stealth fighter, too. Actually everyone can.*
> 
> F35 will cost $80 million a piece by 2020. It’s better to buy F35 then spending billions USD on developing an inferior copy. at the end you would probably pay 120 million USD a piece for a lame domestic bird with downgraded western tech.



Your country even can't design a proper simple APC till today, let alone an aircraft. That's a FACT. Even for your national car you bought the German design as a whole and put viet stample on it.


----------



## Indos

Viet said:


> it’s not realistic. Korea and Indonesia lack major components, without them the jet will be a dead fish, as the Chinese poster above says. The best thing Korea and Indonesia can do is designing the hull by copying the F35 design, while hoping the US and other western companies will provide everything else from engine to avionics to landing gear. I am pretty sure Vietnam engineers can develop a prototype of a stealth fighter, too. Actually everyone can.
> 
> F35 will cost $80 million a piece by 2020. It’s better to buy F35 then spending billions USD on developing an inferior copy. at the end you would probably pay 120 million USD a piece for a lame domestic bird with downgraded western tech.



Well, we must start from some where right to develop a Stealth Fighter. We cannot wait until we can develop turbofan to power the fighter. It will be too long if we wait until all component can be produced at home. We must start from where we can actually do. It is just like when Indonesia decided to develop CN 235 with Spain, our contribution mostly on design and manufacturing ability (making air frame, assembling, and integration) plus financing. When PT Dirgantara Indonesia try to develop CN 235, N 250, N2130, N 219, N 245 and MALE UCAV (joint project with Turkey) it also means we develop our own aviation industry just like Airbus and Boeing do. Airbus and Boeing doesnt produce jet engine and avionics right ?

When Today we try to make jet fighter, it means we try to make our own version of Lockheed Martin (jet fighter producer). So there will be a jet fighter department in PT Dirgantara where in the department the engineers are focus on building jet fighter. Having a jet fighter department means that we will have some people who will dedicate their time in building jet fighter, also a dedicated test pilot. We prepared about 4 jet pilots for KFX/IFX, 3 persons are from Indonesian Air force (who will pursue Aviation degree in ITB (Bandung Institute of technology) and 1 from PT Dirgantara Engineer (who will purse jet fighter education in Air Force). PT Dirgantara is also likely to become a maintenance center of KFX/IFX in South East Asia. It means we also likely to have expertise and experience in handling F 414 turbofan. It also means our goal to produce jet fighter by ourselves is much much closer than a country like Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam etc.

KFX/IFX is not using F 35 design but instead using F 22 design as a base. F 35 doesnt mean to be an air superiority fighter, it has weakness in its design due to its ambitious plan to serve air force and navy in the same time with its STOL technology. And we know that F 22 cannot be sold outside US.

Talking about other component like avionics, actually South Korea will try to make the AESA radar and the cockpit. South Korean is also trying to make AA missile for KFX. 

KFX Cockpit (South Korean made)







For the Indonesian, we maybe use Indonesian avionics company (PT Info Global) to make our IFX cockpit but we dont know yet whether it will be actually happened or not. IFF is also planned to be made locally by PT LEN Industry. 

Info Global cockpit model for IFX

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## eldamar

Indos said:


> Well, we must start from some where right to develop a Stealth Fighter. We cannot wait until we can develop turbofan to power the fighter. It will be too long if we wait until all component can be produced at home. We must start from where we can actually do. It is just like when Indonesia decided to develop CN 235 with Spain, our contribution mostly on design and manufacturing ability (making air frame, assembling, and integration) plus financing. When PT Dirgantara Indonesia try to develop CN 235, N 250, N2130, N 219, N 245 and MALE UCAV (joint project with Turkey) it also means we develop our own aviation industry just like Airbus and Boeing do. Airbus and Boeing doesnt produce jet engine and avionics right ?
> 
> When Today we try to make jet fighter, it means we try to make our own version of Lockheed Martin (jet fighter producer). So there will be a jet fighter department in PT Dirgantara where in the department the engineers are focus on building jet fighter. Having a jet fighter department means that we will have some people who will dedicate their time in building jet fighter, also a dedicated test pilot. We prepared about 4 jet pilots for KFX/IFX, 3 persons are from Indonesian Air force (who will pursue Aviation degree in ITB (Bandung Institute of technology) and 1 from PT Dirgantara Engineer (who will purse jet fighter education in Air Force). PT Dirgantara is also likely to become a maintenance center of KFX/IFX in South East Asia. It means we also likely to have expertise and experience in handling F 414 turbofan. It also means our goal to produce jet fighter by ourselves is much much closer than a country like Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam etc.
> 
> KFX/IFX is not using F 35 design but instead using F 22 design. F 35 doesnt mean to be an air superiority fighter, it has weakness in its design due to its ambitious plan to serve air force and navy in the same time with its STOL technology. And we know that F 22 cannot be sold outside US.
> 
> Talking about other component like avionics, actually South Korea will try to make the AESA radar and the cockpit. South Korean is also trying to make AA missile for KFX.
> 
> KFX Cockpit (South Korean made)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the Indonesian, we maybe use Indonesian avionics company (PT Info Global) to make our IFX cockpit but we dont know yet whether it will be actually happened or not. IFF is also planned to be made locally by PT LEN Industry.
> 
> Info Global cockpit model for IFX


= *wishlist*, not plan







we will
we can
we shall
we want

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wish_list




_A *wish list* or *want list* is an itemization of goods or services that a person or organization desires. The author may distribute copies of their list to family, friends, and other stakeholders who are likely to purchase gifts for the would-be recipient, or to offer some of the listed items for sale. The goal of a wish list is to facilitate communication between the gift receiver and the gift giver. Wish lists often contain items that a gift purchaser can obtain from a variety of retailers. Some wish lists are specialized for particular purposes or concentrated at individual retailers, such as gift registries (e.g., bridal registries).









_


_*i think my personal wishlist is way longer than what your post has stated about indonesia's 'plans'

lol*
_
*Thanks.*


----------



## Indos

eldarlmari said:


> = *wishlist*, not plan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we will
> we can
> we shall
> we want
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wish_list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A *wish list* or *want list* is an itemization of goods or services that a person or organization desires. The author may distribute copies of their list to family, friends, and other stakeholders who are likely to purchase gifts for the would-be recipient, or to offer some of the listed items for sale. The goal of a wish list is to facilitate communication between the gift receiver and the gift giver. Wish lists often contain items that a gift purchaser can obtain from a variety of retailers. Some wish lists are specialized for particular purposes or concentrated at individual retailers, such as gift registries (e.g., bridal registries).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> _*i think my personal wishlist is way longer than what your post has stated about indonesia's 'plans'
> 
> lol*
> _
> *Thanks.*



What happen with this tiny Singaporean dude who uses Chinese movie star picture as his profile picture getting butt hurt on South Korean Indonesian stealth program 


Look, we use "will" to show that the future belongs to the God will, as human we cannot act arrogantly, understand dude ?

Do you have any religion who can teach you manner ?


----------



## Nike

eldarlmari said:


> = *wishlist*, not plan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we will
> we can
> we shall
> we want
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wish_list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A *wish list* or *want list* is an itemization of goods or services that a person or organization desires. The author may distribute copies of their list to family, friends, and other stakeholders who are likely to purchase gifts for the would-be recipient, or to offer some of the listed items for sale. The goal of a wish list is to facilitate communication between the gift receiver and the gift giver. Wish lists often contain items that a gift purchaser can obtain from a variety of retailers. Some wish lists are specialized for particular purposes or concentrated at individual retailers, such as gift registries (e.g., bridal registries).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> _*i think my personal wishlist is way longer than what your post has stated about indonesia's 'plans'
> 
> lol*
> _
> *Thanks.*



Many plans of our (in military planning )had come to fruition


----------



## Viet

Marine Rouge said:


> Your country even can't design a proper simple APC till today, let alone an aircraft. That's a FACT. Even for your national car you bought the German design as a whole and put viet stample on it.


Ok I see our weakness however I don’t see any problem in buying western technology in making car then produce it. What is the point spending huge sum as well as decade of time to develop an inferior car that nobody wants to buy?

Same with aircraft. I read everything from the future KFX jet is imported, even the wheels.

Without US jet engine, the bird won’t take off, not even in 100 years.


----------



## Indos

Viet said:


> Ok I see our weakness however I don’t see any problem in buying western technology in making car then produce it. What is the point spending huge sum as well as decade of time to develop an inferior car that nobody wants to buy?
> 
> Same with aircraft. I read everything from the future KFX jet is imported, even the wheels.
> 
> Without US jet engine, the bird won’t take off, not even in 100 years.



As I said @Viet Indonesia has the company that is similar like Boeing and Lockheed Martin which is PT Dirgantara Indonesia who can design and manufacture aircraft. But as you also know, currently we dont have a company like General Electric that can make a turbofan like F 414 that will power the KFX/IFX (if the program successful).


We build from where we can do, and we are also helped by the South Korean who is developing AESA radar and some avionics. For your information, Indonesia can produce landing gear but dont know whether it will be used for IFX.

Talking about jet engine, we are also developing but still in research stage. We dont know when we will be able to develop turbofan engine for aircraft but at least we try to build jet engine for cruise missile first. From there we can hope that maybe someday we will be able to produce turbofan for jet fighter.






PT Dirgantara Indonesia has a subsidiary company which operate in turbine manufacturing and aircraft engine maintenance. The name of the company is PT Nusantara Turbine dan Propulsi. You can visit the website here http://www.umcntp.co.id/home


----------



## katarabhumi

Indos said:


> What happen with this tiny Singaporean dude who uses Chinese movie star picture as his profile picture getting butt hurt on South Korean Indonesian stealth program :lol



Insecurity

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

*Indonesia to renegotiate involvement in KFX/IFX fighter programme*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
21 October 2018







The Indonesian government has confirmed that it will seek to “renegotiate and restructure” its programme with South Korea to develop the KFX/IFX fighter aircraft. Source: Korea Aerospace Industries

The Indonesian government has said it will renegotiate its programme with South Korea to develop the Korean Fighter Xperiment/Indonesia Fighter Xperiment (KFX/IFX) aircraft.

The Coordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security of Indonesia said in a statement on its website on 19 October that the move is necessary due to “current national economic conditions”.

The minister of the portfolio, Wiranto – who goes by a single name – said in the statement that the government will look to secure a “lighter” economic commitment to the co-development project, which began in 2015.

“Due to national economic conditions, President [Joko Widodo] has decided to renegotiate [the contract] to make Indonesia’s position lighter for matters related to funding,” said Wiranto.

He added that the government will now form a project team, which he will lead, to renegotiate the contract with representatives from South Korea, and that both governments wanted to finalise a new deal within 12 months.

Wiranto said elements of the deal to be reviewed include Indonesia’s overall financial commitment, the agreed percentage of development costs to be covered by Indonesia, production workshare and expenses, technology transfers to Indonesia, and Indonesia’s access to intellectual property as well as marketing rights once the programme begins production.

In the same ministerial statement, Tom Lembong, chairman of the Indonesian Investment Coordinating Board (BKPM), said that South Korea’s President Moon Jae-in had already agreed to “renegotiate and restructure” the KFX/IFX program during meetings between the two leaders in a summit in Seoul in September.

He said that the renegotiation will aim to lessen the burden on the state budget, reduce the depletion of Indonesian foreign exchange reserves, and “maintain an investment climate” for South Korean investors in the fighter aircraft program. He added, “The two heads of state agreed that this [renegotiation] must be completed in 12 months.”

https://www.janes.com/article/83926...iate-involvement-in-kfx-ifx-fighter-programme

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

KFX/IFX on wind tunnel test

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Indos

*Indonesia Presses Ahead with IF-X 4.5 Gen Fighter Programme*

November 7, 2018






Indonesia is continuing ahead with its ambitious plans to partner with South Korea for the 4.5 generation KF-X/IF-X programme.

Daily News spoke with Nurkaswiyanto, Chief Engineer IF-X, Technology Centre Division, Directorate of Technology & Development at Indonesia’s state owned airframer PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) for an update on the programme.

According to Nurkaswiyanto, one of the main goals of the programme was to develop fighter development capability within Indonesia. The development of capability to manufacture large composite structures for aerospace requirements was another key aspect of the IF-X programme.

Indonesia is now trying to better manage its financial commitment for the IF-X programme and Korea has been supportive of such requests, company officials say. In September, following discussions with the presidents of Indonesia and South Korea, both nations agreed to move ahead with the programme.

The total cost of developing the 4.5 generation fighter is pegged at US$8 billion, with Indonesia to undertake a 20 percent workshare. The total financial commitment for Indonesia is expected to touch US$2.2 – 2.3 billion, over the 10-year design and development cycle.

The cost of each KF-X/IF-X fighter which was initially pegged at US$70 million per aircraft, is now expected to increase to US$75 million per aircraft.

*Around 200 Indonesian engineers are already working on the IF-X programme, with some engineers based in South Korea. Korean Aerospace Industries (KAI) has also deputed some senior engineers to Indonesia. PT Dirgantara Indonesia has been tasked with producing the composite wing and horizontal and vertical stabilisers for the KF-X and IF-X. While the wing for the first prototype will be built in Korea, all wings for production versions of the KF-X and IF-X will be built in Indonesia, Nurkaswiyanto says*.

PTDI will also undertake the integration of weapons and sensors proposed by the Indonesian Air Force, including older weapons such as the AGM65. Indonesia is expected to retain the Diehl Iris-T and MBDA Meteor as the main missile armament for the IF-X.

PTDI will undertake the integration of a 480-gallon external drop tank to meet an Indonesian air force requirement. Korea will use a 370 gallon drop tank for KF-X aircraft.

The Preliminary Design Review (PDR) for the KF-X/IF-X programme was completed in June and the Critical Design Review (CDR) is slated for completion in April 2019, following which the production of the first prototype will commence. The first KF-X prototype will roll-out in 2020.

https://gbp.com.sg/indonesia-presses-ahead-with-if-x-4-5-gen-fighter-programme/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## eldamar

Indos said:


> *Indonesia Presses Ahead with IF-X 4.5 Gen Fighter Programme*
> 
> November 7, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesia is continuing ahead with its ambitious plans to partner with South Korea for the 4.5 generation KF-X/IF-X programme.
> 
> Daily News spoke with Nurkaswiyanto, Chief Engineer IF-X, Technology Centre Division, Directorate of Technology & Development at Indonesia’s state owned airframer PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) for an update on the programme.
> 
> According to Nurkaswiyanto, one of the main goals of the programme was to develop fighter development capability within Indonesia. The development of capability to manufacture large composite structures for aerospace requirements was another key aspect of the IF-X programme.
> 
> Indonesia is now trying to better manage its financial commitment for the IF-X programme and Korea has been supportive of such requests, company officials say. In September, following discussions with the presidents of Indonesia and South Korea, both nations agreed to move ahead with the programme.
> 
> The total cost of developing the 4.5 generation fighter is pegged at US$8 billion, with Indonesia to undertake a 20 percent workshare. The total financial commitment for Indonesia is expected to touch US$2.2 – 2.3 billion, over the 10-year design and development cycle.
> 
> The cost of each KF-X/IF-X fighter which was initially pegged at US$70 million per aircraft, is now expected to increase to US$75 million per aircraft.
> 
> *Around 200 Indonesian engineers are already working on the IF-X programme, with some engineers based in South Korea. Korean Aerospace Industries (KAI) has also deputed some senior engineers to Indonesia. PT Dirgantara Indonesia has been tasked with producing the composite wing and horizontal and vertical stabilisers for the KF-X and IF-X. While the wing for the first prototype will be built in Korea, all wings for production versions of the KF-X and IF-X will be built in Indonesia, Nurkaswiyanto says*.
> 
> PTDI will also undertake the integration of weapons and sensors proposed by the Indonesian Air Force, including older weapons such as the AGM65. Indonesia is expected to retain the Diehl Iris-T and MBDA Meteor as the main missile armament for the IF-X.
> 
> PTDI will undertake the integration of a 480-gallon external drop tank to meet an Indonesian air force requirement. Korea will use a 370 gallon drop tank for KF-X aircraft.
> 
> The Preliminary Design Review (PDR) for the KF-X/IF-X programme was completed in June and the Critical Design Review (CDR) is slated for completion in April 2019, following which the production of the first prototype will commence. The first KF-X prototype will roll-out in 2020.
> 
> https://gbp.com.sg/indonesia-presses-ahead-with-if-x-4-5-gen-fighter-programme/


oh not a stealth jet?


----------



## Indos

eldarlmari said:


> oh not a stealth jet?



Based on plan, it will in be full stealth starting at block 2.


----------



## eldamar

Indos said:


> Based on plan, it will in be full stealth starting at block 2.


the article already stated 4.5 generation


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

eldarlmari said:


> the article already stated 4.5 generation


Block 1 is 4.5. The TNI-AU requirement is to have a drop pod to increase the plane range.


----------



## Indos

*KFX/IFX Fighter Aircraft development reaches 20 percent*
Jumat, 7 Desember 2018 10:39 WIB - 0 Views

Reporter: antara





Fighter aircraft model made by Indonesia and South Korea, KFX / IFX (AntaraNews.com/Ade P Marboen)

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - The development of fighter aircraft 4.5 generation, Korean Fighter Xperiment/Indonesia Fighter Xperiment (KFX/IFX) under cooperation of Indonesia and South Korea which was established since 2011, has been reaching 20 percent.

"Until now the development process has been reaching 20 percent. There are three stages we need to pass, namely technology development, EMD (engineering and manufacturing development), and prototyping," Director of Technology and Development of PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PT DI) Air Marshal Gita Amperiawan said at a press conference here on Thursday.

According to him, after the G to G cooperation project has been running for seven years, the preliminary design review phase has completed to ensure the configuration of the KFX/IFX fighter aircraft has met the operational requirements of the Indonesian Air Force (TNI AU) and the Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF).

"Today we are socializing to all stakeholders, including the Ministry of Defense, Coordinating Ministry for Politics of Law and Human Rights about the development progress of the engineering manufacturing development phase," Gita said.

He further said, after the preliminary design was completed, the two countries will develop the prototype of the fighter.

This fighter aircraft is expected to be mass produced in 2026 after passing flight tests and certifications.

"We have passed the technology development phase and EMP. The details of the design are expected to complete around July or August 2019, and we will begin prototyping, testing and certification processes," he noted.

Gita added that the Indonesian and South Korean governments accommodate common requirements that the prototyping should accommodate the interests of the Indonesian Air Force.

There will be 168 units of aircraft to be produced. South Korea will receive 120 aircraft while Indonesia will get 48 units.

"We contribute 20 percent in each phase according to the agreement," he said.

At the same occasion, Chairman of PT DI`s KFX / IFX Program Heri Yansyah said the Indonesian aircraft industry PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PT DI) and Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) are just system integrators in the development of KFX / IFX aircraft.

"So, all components will be produced by other parties including engines and avionics. The navigation is produced by other parties that will be integrated into this aircraft. We also have plans on how aircraft technology can be built by Indonesia`s local industries, such as PT Pindad," he said.

According to Heri, Pindad, which is the Indonesian state-owned enterprise specialization in military and commercial products, could make weapon system for this generation 4.5 fighter.

"The weapons can be produced by Pindad. We also build technologies, such as data links, weapon integration, and radar. These are our works that we call strategic investment. We will figure out how to produce fighter aircraft in the country because it relates to our independence," Heri said.

The KFX/IFX fighter is a generation 4.5 of semi-stealth multi-role aircraft developed by Indonesia and South Korea. This fighter aircraft is designed to replace ROFKA and Indonesian Air Force`s fighter jets.

Some of the advantages of KFX / IFX fighter include semi-stealth, and have semi conformal missile launchers, advanced avionics and air refueling.

In a memorandum of understanding signed by the two countries, Indonesia covers 20 percent the total cost of the fighter development program, while South Korea bears 80 percent of it.

Reporting by Syaiful Hakim
Editng by Libertina, Rahmad Nasution
Editor: Heru Purwanto

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mohrenn

That is one very complicated and intricate development history.


----------



## Beast

Indos said:


> Based on plan, it will in be full stealth starting at block 2.



Its impossible to redesign and incorporate an internal weapon bay in block 2 from this current design. If so, essential it will be a new design.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JohnWick

a Good looking aircraft!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

@messiach thought you might be interested, South Korea is taking a clearly iterative approach to their next-gen fighter.


----------



## NEKONEKO

Beast said:


> Its impossible to redesign and incorporate an internal weapon bay in block 2 from this current design. If so, essential it will be a new design.


I agree, but if they want to call it as block 2 then let it be.
Or maybe call it as a new 4.5 gen fighter with internal weapon bays developed from kfx, and developed further as a fully gen 5 stealth fighter?
This proporsal may got rejected being wasting money on developing 2 jet fighter.
To get approval and i don't think SK able to develop gen 5 fighter yet, they make it like Pok3mon, evolve from block 1 to block 3.
IMHO

OOT
Is it just me or when you write p-o-k(without the -) somehow when posted it become "Azad Kashmir"
Azad Kashmir
@waz


----------



## messiach

We missed each other at the Expo. I attended the inaugural - extreme right in second row.



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> @messiach thought you might be interested, South Korea is taking a clearly iterative approach to their next-gen fighter.


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

messiach said:


> We missed each other at the Expo. I attended the inaugural - extreme right in second row.


I came in for the 2nd and 3rd day, though in hindsight that was a big (and rookie) mistake.


----------



## messiach

Sure it was. I did ask a few colleagues about you. Nobody was sure.



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I came in for the 2nd and 3rd day, though in hindsight that was a big (and rookie) mistake.


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

messiach said:


> Sure it was. I did ask a few colleagues about you. Nobody was sure.


Yeah the 2nd day was wildly disorienting, way too many people there and the exhibitors seemed just tired at that point.

Still, had a good 30 min backroom talk with PAC on Project Azm and other stuff. It was made clear that it was an original design project, though they were cagey about potential specifications.

The hilarious part was Leonardo being on a gag order by the PAF, but then literally showing everything you could guess would matter to the PAF, e.g. Kronos air surveillance radar, M346 trainer, etc and nothing to mask their focus or throw people off.


----------



## Indos

*Indonesia looks to widen KFX/IFX involvement despite economic pressure*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - Jane's Defence Weekly
11 December 2018


Indonesia is looking to involve wider elements of its national defence industry in its joint programme with South Korea to develop and build the next-generation KFX/IFX fighter aircraft, industry officials in Jakarta have said.

The plan is being developed despite the Indonesian government’s stated intention to renegotiate its involvement in the KFX/IFX programme primarily because of growing economic constraints in the country.

In a recent press conference hosted by state-owned PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI), which is collaborating on the KFX/IFX with Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI), officials said the company is committed to continuing its engagement in the development programme, which, they added, is now “20% complete”.

https://www.janes.com/article/85121...kfx-ifx-involvement-despite-economic-pressure

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GeraltofRivia

I don’t have doubts about SK/Indonesia’s ambition in developing their own fighter plane. However I do wonder how much they are willing and capable of spending on this program. Given F35 programs cost of USD 406b, it is probably going to be in the order of hundreds billions for another comparable program. 

Why would anyone think they can spend less than US? Where can the saving come from? If any components are sourced from the existing vendors, they would need to recover at least some of thedevelopment cost it spent, won’t it?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

*Indonesia resumes payment for fighter development project*
*All Headlines* 17:48 January 02, 2019


SEOUL, Jan. 2 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia resumed its payment for South Korea's fighter development project last month after a yearlong delay, Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, said Wednesday.

Late last month, Indonesia's defense ministry paid 132 billion won under a 2016 contract to shoulder 20 percent of the development cost for the KF-X project worth 7.9 trillion won (US$7.05 billion) as part of the country's efforts to procure combat aircraft for its own Air Force.

The Southeast Asian country had not made any payments since early 2017, triggering concerns that it could withdraw from the project.

"Through the latest payment, we can dispel worries about Indonesia's potential exit from the project, and we expect the country to actively participate," KAI said in a press release.

South Korea seeks to locally build the new fighter jet to replace its aging fleet of F-4 and F-5 fighters.

sshluck@yna.co.kr

https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20190102010300315


----------



## Indos

*Indonesia resumes KFX payments*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - Jane's Defence Industry
14 January 2019







Indonesia has restarted payments to support its continuing involvement in the project with South Korea to develop the next-generation KFX fighter aircraft. Source: IHS Markit/Patrick Allen

Jakarta has restarted payments to support the development of the next-generation Korean Fighter Xperiment (KFX) aircraft, Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) confirmed to _Jane's_ on 14 January.

KAI said it received KRW132 billion (USD118 million) from the Indonesian Ministry of Defence (MoD) in late 2018 and that the payment will "dispel concerns" about Indonesia's potential withdrawal from the KFX development programme.

KAI added that up to 150 engineers and technicians from Indonesia are expected to travel to South Korea this year to participate in the fighter development programme. KAI added that 28 Indonesian engineers were originally involved but this number had increased to 72.

A KAI statement, citing an unidentified KAI official, said, "Through mutual trust we have not only restored trust but also confirmed our intention to jointly participate in the KFX programme. We will do our best to lead the KFX programme successfully through co-operation with Indonesia."

KAI said the payment from Indonesia was received following successful diplomatic engagement between the two countries in recent months. This engagement, it added, has strengthened the KFX joint development project and wider defence industrial collaboration efforts between South Korea and Indonesia.

Due mainly to fiscal constraints, Indonesia had previously halted payments to support the fighter aircraft development project. However, defence officials from the two countries are currently negotiating a new payment structure for the Indonesian MoD through which it will continue involvement in the programme.

KAI also confirmed that Indonesia is committed to investing "about KRW1.7 trillion" in the KFX programme, which equates to 20% of total development costs. This payment structure was agreed in 2015, although _Jane's_ understands that Indonesia is behind by about 40% of its agreed financial commitment.

Under the original agreement, the South Korean government will pay for 60% of the development programme, with prime contractor KAI covering 20%.

https://www.janes.com/article/85680/indonesia-resumes-kfx-payments

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

*South Korea begins building prototype of next-generation fighter aircraft*
Feb 15, 2019

in Aviation, News





Korea Aerospace Industries, or KAI, is starting production on the first prototype of a next-generation fighter jet.

On 14 February, South Korea’s biggest aerospace company held a ceremony in order to celebrate the start producing of the first bulkhead, which is the main part of the forward fuselage of the next-generation Korean Fighter Xperiment (KFX) aircraft.

“A bulkhead is a structure that is designed to prevent an aircraft from being deformed due to pressure generated by high-speed flights”, the aerospace company announced Thursday.

A KAI representative said that the first prototype of the KF-X advanced multirole fighter aircraft, so-called 4.5-generation fighter, will be finished in April 2021.

Currently, KAI has completed 15 percent of the total design drawing for KF-X and will complete more than 80 percent after September when a detailed design review is completed. KF-X passed a system requirement review and a system function review in 2016. System development for the aircraft started in December 2015.





The KF-X program aims for production around 120 advanced fighter jets to replace the Air Force’s aging F-4 and F-5 combat aircraft.

The KF-X project is expected to play an important role in revving up the Korean aviation industry in terms of technology accumulation and job creation.

The KF-X project currently involves a total of 112 institutions — 16 domestic universities, 11 research institutes and 85 companies. When the development of the prototype gets in full swing, an additional 35 institutions will join the project.

https://defence-blog.com/news/south...type-of-next-generation-fighter-aircraft.html

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Indos

*KAI reaches early production milestone on KFX*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - Jane's Defence Industry
18 February 2019


Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) has started production work on the first Korean Fighter eXperimental (KFX) aircraft prototype, the company said. Manufacturing work of the aircraft’s bulk head commenced on 14 February, with the prototype scheduled to be rolled out of KAI’s facilities in Sacheon, South Korea, in 2021.

KAI said the milestone was achieved through assistance provided by more than 100 local agencies including 84 companies, 16 tertiary institutions, and 11 research institutes. Another 35 companies will be involved when production increases in tempo. KAI added that it has hired 700 employees to work on the KFX and that in 2019 it is seeking to recruit an additional 400 people to work on the project.




Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) started production work on the bulk head of the first KFX prototype on 14 February. (Korea Aerospace Industries)

The preliminary design of the KFX was finalised in June 2018, at which point the outer mould line (OML) of the aircraft was fixed. The critical design phase is scheduled to be complete in mid-2019. KAI added, “The development is running smoothly as scheduled.”

The KFX development programme envisages the production of six prototypes by 2021, followed by four years of trials and the completion of development by mid-2026. Serial production of the aircraft will take place during 2026–32, with an initial 120 units intended to replace the Republic of Korea Air Force’s (RoKAF’s) ageing fleets of F-4E Phantom and F-5E Tiger II aircraft.

https://www.janes.com/article/86534/kai-reaches-early-production-milestone-on-kfx


----------



## Indos

*South Korean officials arrive in Jakarta to renegotiate KFX/IFX fighter aircraft programme*
*Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - Jane's Defence Weekly
28 January 2019
Follow

RSS






Indonesia has begun renegotiating its involvement in the KFX/IFX fighter programme. Source: Korea Aerospace Industries
*Key Points*

Indonesia and South Korea have begun renegotiating the former's involvement in the KFX/IFX fighter aircraft programme
Jakarta aims to acquire an initial batch of 16 airframes, while lessening the programme's financial burden on Indonesia's state budget
A delegation comprising officials from the South Korean government has arrived in Jakarta to renegotiate Indonesia's participation in a programme to jointly develop and build the Korean Fighter Xperiment/Indonesia Fighter Xperiment (KFX/IFX) aircraft.

According to information and documents supplied to _Jane's_ on 23 January by a source from the Indonesian House of Representatives' commission on defence, intelligence, and foreign affairs (Komisi I), a meeting to discuss the programme was held over two days from 24 January.

Attending the meeting on behalf of Jakarta were a team of representatives from state-owned aerospace company PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI); the Indonesian Ministry of Defence; and the Co-ordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs (POLHUKAM).

The document that was provided to _Jane's_ , which gives details of the points of discussion that were raised at the meeting, also indicates that Indonesia was expected to propose an extension to its payment obligations under the programme to 2031.

To further lessen the burden on its national defence budget, Indonesia was also expected to propose making payments for the programme via counter-trade deals instead of cash; similar to the strategy it is pursuing in the acquisition of Su-35 fighter aircraft from Russia.

Additionally, Jakarta pushed for greater intellectual property rights over technologies developed in the programme with a view to commercialise them in the future.

Under the original KFX/IFX finance agreement signed between the two countries in 2015, Indonesia is obliged to pay for 20% of the programme's total development costs, which is estimated to be about USD8 billion.

https://www.janes.com/article/85988...enegotiate-kfx-ifx-fighter-aircraft-programme


----------



## CrazyZ

Fast following...looks just like the F22.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

*KAI sets out 1st cutting of KF-X fighter parts*

2019-02-14 Hits : 64






http://www.koreaaero.com/english/


----------



## Wow

Very handsome looking fighter ...........seems like a clusterf@$k development process 

gonna be quite a sight if they can pull this off


----------



## GraveDigger388

Wow said:


> Very handsome looking fighter ...........seems like a clusterf@$k development process
> 
> gonna be quite a sight if they can pull this off


Username checks out lol.

And yeah, I agree.


----------



## Indos

Wow said:


> Very handsome looking fighter ...........seems like a clusterf@$k development process
> 
> gonna be quite a sight if they can pull this off



Not really that fast because Korea (ADD) and Indonesia (PT DI) started design development since 2011. It has been 8 years since that year. I still remember reading news paper in 2010 where Korean asking Indonesian to join the program. AESA radar is still being developed and I hope it will be ready before 2024. InshaAllah we will see the first prototype ready in 2020 or 2021.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Here are news talking about Indonesian engineers and KFX/IFX part made in Indonesia in CNN Indonesia :

*News:*

Dalam pembuatan prototipe pesawat tempur multiperan itu, menurut Kepala Badan Penelitian dan Pengembangan Kementerian Pertahanan Anne Kusmayati, PTDI akan membuat sayap, penguat di bagian bawah sayap, dan ekor.

Pengerjaan jet tempur KF-X/IF-X akan dipusatkan di Sacheon, Provinsi Gyeongsang Selatan, Korea Selatan –kota yang menjadi lokasi markas dan pabrik utama Korea Aerospace Industries.

Sebanyak 200 insinyur Indonesia secara bertahap berangkat ke Sacheon selama satu-dua tahun ini. Mula-mula mereka akan merancang desain pesawat. Para insinyur itu juga akan ikut mendesain seluruh komponen pesawat.

Dari total pekerja kedua negara yang terlibat pembuatan KF-X/IF-X, 30 persen lebih berasal dari Indonesia dan mayoritas sisanya dari Korea Selatan. Ini pula alasan pembuatan pesawat dipusatkan di Sacheon, bukan di Indonesia.

Proporsi 30 persen lebih insinyur Indonesia yang terlibat pengerjaan KF-X/IF-X itu sesungguhnya bertambah dari jumlah semula sebanyak 20 persen. Penambahan pekerja Indonesia itu terjadi seiring berjalannya waktu penggarapan.

“Itu menandakan insinyur Indonesia diperhitungkan Korea. Bahkan ada paket pekerjaan yang satu teknologinya hanya dimiliki orang Indonesia. Dia doktor dari ITB (Institut Teknologi Bandung), satu-satunya yang memiliki kemampuan inlight design. Jadi Korea tak memandang enteng Indonesia,” kata Anne.

*Google Translate*

In making the prototype of the multi-fighter aircraft, according to Head of the Ministry of Defense's Research and Development Agency Anne Kusmayati, PTDI will make wings, boosters at the bottom of the wing and tail.

Work on KF-X / IF-X fighter jets will be centered in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province, South Korea, the city which is the headquarters and main factory of Korea Aerospace Industries.

A total of 200 Indonesian engineers have gradually departed for Sacheon for one or two years. At first they will design the aircraft design. The engineers will also participate in designing all aircraft components.

Of the total workers of the two countries involved in the making of KF-X / IF-X, 30 percent are more from Indonesia and the majority of the rest are from South Korea. This is also the reason for making aircraft centered on Sacheon, not in Indonesia.

The proportion of more than 30 percent of Indonesian engineers involved in working on the KF-X / IF-X actually increased from the original amount of 20 percent. The addition of Indonesian workers occurred as time went by cultivation.

"It signifies that Indonesian engineers count on Korea. There is even a work package whose technology is only owned by Indonesians. He is a doctor from ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology), the only one who has inlight design capabilities. So Korea does not take Indonesia lightly, "Anne said.


https://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasion...ur-ri-buatan-sendiri-mengangkasa-9-tahun-lagi


----------



## Indos

GeraltofRivia said:


> I don’t have doubts about SK/Indonesia’s ambition in developing their own fighter plane. However I do wonder how much they are willing and capable of spending on this program. Given F35 programs cost of USD 406b, it is probably going to be in the order of hundreds billions for another comparable program.
> 
> Why would anyone think they can spend less than US? Where can the saving come from? If any components are sourced from the existing vendors, they would need to recover at least some of thedevelopment cost it spent, won’t it?



F 35 program is rather more complicated than KFX so it is logical to have a very high cost of development. Do you know how much China spend on J 20 and J 31 ? I think it is more comparable when we compare KFX with J 31. I think if KFX doesnt have any problem during flight test and every thing is going in accordance with the design, the real cost will end up similar like the projected cost. InshaAllah.


----------



## Indos

The Korea Fighter eXperimental Aircraft is to be indigenously developed and Hanwa System is to supply key onboard elements including AESA Radar, EOTGP (EO Targeting Pod), IRST (Infra Red Search and Tracking), SMC (Stores Management Computer), ACCS (Audio Communication Control System), MFD (Multi Function Display), MC (Mission Computer) and the RF Jammer.

https://m.hanwhasystems.com/eng/mbusiness/biz312.do



Beast said:


> Its impossible to redesign and incorporate an internal weapon bay in block 2 from this current design. If so, essential it will be a new design.



Why not ? According to final design KFX is bigger than F 35, if F35 can have internal weapon bay why KFX cant? KFX block 2 maybe bigger than block 1 and can be as big as superhornet (it has similar engine) to get more space for weapon and oil for longer combat range.


----------



## Beast

Indos said:


> The Korea Fighter eXperimental Aircraft is to be indigenously developed and Hanwa System is to supply key onboard elements including AESA Radar, EOTGP (EO Targeting Pod), IRST (Infra Red Search and Tracking), SMC (Stores Management Computer), ACCS (Audio Communication Control System), MFD (Multi Function Display), MC (Mission Computer) and the RF Jammer.
> 
> https://m.hanwhasystems.com/eng/mbusiness/biz312.do
> 
> 
> 
> Why not ? According to final design KFX is bigger than F 35, if F35 can have internal weapon bay why KFX cant? KFX block 2 maybe bigger than block 1 and can be as big as superhornet (it has similar engine) to get more space for weapon and oil for longer combat range.


You cannot do that when you didn't incorporate internal bay in the start. Those who say actually knows very little about aeronautical design. The whole balance and weight shift need to readjust. Not to mention need to consider reduced RCS.

It will be better to bring a new design with internal weapon bay.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NEKONEKO

OR kfx is designed to have internal weapon bay, but for block I these space will be used for extra fuel tank. Block I have longer range but block II have the internal weapon bay.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Google Translate
Thursday, March 7, 2019 | 09:51 WIB

*Wiranto: Indonesia Continues to Develop KFX Combat Jets*

*



*
Coordinating Minister for Politics, Law and Security (Menko Polhukam) Wiranto. (Photo: BeritaSatu TV)

Jakarta, Beritasatu.com - Coordinating Minister for Politics, Law, Defense and Security (Polhukam), Wiranto held important talks with Korea's National Defense Minister Jeong Kyeong-Doo at the Korean Ministry of National Defense office in Seoul, South Korea on Wednesday ( 6/3).

The meeting in the context of a _high-level meeting_ discussed the continuation of the cooperation program for the development of KF-X / IF-X fighter aircraft.

During the meeting, Wiranto brought the message of Indonesian President Joko Widodo (Jokowi) who decided to continue the cooperation program for the development of KF-X / IF-X fighter jets. This decision was made by considering a strategic _partnership_ between Indonesia and South Korea which had been going well and increasingly tightly.

"Although the Indonesian government is currently focusing on the construction of road, bridge, port and airport infrastructure which is a vital aspect for national economic growth and equitable development, the government considers the cooperation with South Korea to develop KF-X / IF-X fighter jets. "It is very important for the advancement of technology and national defense," Wiranto said through a press statement on Thursday (03/07/2019).

He explained that the cooperation in developing KF-X / IF-X fighter aircraft with South Korea was an effort to improve the quality and capability of Indonesian human resources to master the 4.5 generation aerospace technology. This was in line with the Industrial Revolution 4.0 _roadmap_launched by President Jokowi.

"The current position of the ability of Indonesian engineers in mastering jet fighter technology is still inadequate, so a significant leap is needed in the increase," Wiranto said.

He hopes that the collaboration process for the development of the KF-X / IF-X which is being implemented in Seoul can reach an agreement that will have a positive impact on the mastery of the national aerospace industry technology, as well as strengthening the country's defense potential.

https://www.beritasatu.com/nasional/541673/wiranto-indonesia-lanjutkan-pengembangan-jet-tempur-kfx


----------



## Indos

AlhamduliLLAH government once again stated its seriousness on KFX/IFX program. This project is indeed important for our defense industry and air force. I hope Indonesian stick to the initial agreement to procure at least 48 KFX and invest 20 % in the program.


----------



## Indos

*Indonesia seeks reduction in share of expenses in joint fighter jet project*

By Jo He-rim

Published : Jul 22, 2019 - 18:21
Updated : Jul 22, 2019 - 18:21





















Indonesia is seeking a reduction of its share of expenses in the fighter jet development project with South Korea, as it is running about 300 billion won ($254 million) in arrears. 

According to Indonesian news reports, Indonesia’s Coordinating Minister for Politics and Security Wiranto reiterated the need to renegotiate the deal for the Korean Fighter Experimental, citing the government’s lack of budget.

Korea and Indonesia have been working together to develop a new fighter jet for the air forces of the two countries since striking an agreement in 2010. Under the arrangement, the $8 billion cost of the project is to be divided between South Korea and Indonesia, with Korea paying 80 percent. 





The KFX/IFX fighter jet under development by South Korea and Indonesia. (DAPA)

Wiranto, however, stressed that Indonesia is not seeking to withdraw from the project, and does not want to “disturb the long-standing friendship with South Korea,” Indonesian news outlet Kompas reported Thursday. 

The country also does not want to lose the opportunity for the technology transfer the program would offer, Wiranto added.

According to South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration on Monday, Indonesia had paid about 220 billion won of its share of 1.7 trillion won as of Monday. The first deposit was made in 2016. Since paying 132 billion won early this year, there have not been any additional payments from Indonesia, and it is running about 300 billion won in arrears as of July, DAPA said.

While admitting that they have been renegotiating the deal since early this year, the Korean government refused to elaborate on details of their talks. 

“The negotiation between the two countries are ongoing, and the two sides have agreed to keep it closed to the public,” DAPA spokesman Park Jeong-eun said. 

The Indonesian Coordinating Ministry had said it would renegotiate its involvement in the joint project for “lighter” economic commitments, citing its national economic conditions, in a statement in October last year.

“Aside from the financial problem, the development of the fighter jets is going smoothly. We do not see that Indonesia will withdraw from the project,” an official from Korea Aerospace Industries, which is participating in the project, told The Korea Herald. 

According to the official, 32 more Indonesian personnel are set to arrive in Korea in August, adding to the current 80 working here. 

The Critical Design Review meeting is also expected to take place in September, in which the two sides will review the development of the project. It would then lead to building an actual prototype of the fighter jets, the official said. 

The KFX/IFX project is aimed at producing semi-stealth fighter aircraft of generation 4.5. From the program, the two countries will build 168 units, of which 120 will belong to Korea. 

The warplanes are expected to be equipped with semi-conformal missile launchers, advanced avionics and air-refueling functions. 

The KFX project is South Korea’s second domestic fighter jet development program, first proposed in 2001. 

By Jo He-rim (herim@heraldcorp.com)



http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190722000809


----------



## Indos

Short montage of KF-X 4.5th Generation Korean Fighter Jet Program sourced from new Korea Aerospace Industries promotional video.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

*Detail Design Has Been Completed *













Review of detailed design review committee confirmed 'prototype production possible'-

❍ The Defense Affairs Agency (CEO Wang Jung-hong) held the KF-X Detailed Design Review (CDR) Meeting * from September 24 to 26, allowing all military requirements to be reflected in the design and proceeding to the prototype production stage. It was confirmed that there is.
* CDR (Critical Design Review): Verify that system requirements and functional requirements are all reflected in the initial product specification that satisfies the detailed design, and proceed to prototype production, system integration, and testing within cost, schedule, and risk. Procedure to formally confirm that this is possible

❍ The Korean fighter system development project is under the supervision of the Korea Aerospace Industries (President Ahn Hyun-ho). The development began in January 2016 and completed the basic design in June 2018. Detailed hardware and software details are now available. The design is finalized and part fabrication is in progress.

❍ Up to three years and nine months from the start of the project, the wind tunnel test, the updating of major system models, and the design and analysis results for each field continuously improved the shape.

❍ In this detailed design review meeting, reviewers composed of government and private experts, including the Air Force, reviewed about 390 technical data to confirm that the military requirements were properly reflected in the design.

❍ The head of the Korean Fighter Project Division, Senior Defense Officer, Kwang Sun-sun, said, *“Now, Korean fighter aircraft development has successfully passed the detailed design review stage and faces new challenges in the construction and testing of prototypes.” *We will make every effort to make Korean fighters with the performances that the military satisfies through cooperation with related organizations. ”

❍ The head of the Korean Air Fighter Project Division, Kwang-Su Ryu, said, “We have made great efforts to develop Korean fighter aircraft that meet the military needs through perfect quality assurance and ground and flight tests of prototypes based on the output from detailed design after the start of system development. I'll make it successful. ”

❍ The Korean fighter system development project will ship the first prototype in the first half of 2021. It will then begin its first flight test in the first half of 2022 and complete development by 2026. In addition, it plans to exhibit a full-scale Korean fighter model at ADEX (Seoul International Aerospace & Defense Exhibition) held in October this year.

http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/bbs/view.html?b_bbs_id=10040&pn=1&num=93826#none

@Deino

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos

*Korea’s Biggest Domestic Weapons Project Takes Off: Production Set to Begin for Cutting-Edge, Multi-Role Fighter Jets*
(Source: Korea Joongang Daily; published Oct. 02, 2019)
By Kim Min-Seok, Shim Kyu-Seok



Having passed its critical design review last week, Korea’s future stealth fighter will now enter full-scale development, leading to production of a prototype by 2021 and to initial deliveries by 2026, according to Korean Aerospace Industries. (KAI image)
The biggest homegrown weapons development project in Korean history is about to take off as Seoul begins production for its new cutting-edge, multi-role fighter jets known as the KFX. 

The design for the KFX, which stands for Korean Fighter Experimental, is the result of almost two decades of planning that cost the government approximately 8.6 trillion won ($7 billion). Once production begins on 120 units of the new jet, which is scheduled to start in 2026, an additional 10 trillion won will be needed, putting the bill for the entire project at around 18.6 trillion won. 

The Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), Korea’s arms procurement agency, concluded its three-day critical review of the jet’s design last week, giving its final approval on Friday. Production of a prototype model begins this month. 

According to Ryu Kwang-soo, head business manager of the KFX project at Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) - the project’s main developer, around 9,300 out of the approximately 12,000 detailed blueprints needed for the KFX project are complete - 78 percent of the project, including key components. 

As a major national project, development for the KFX was led by the government’s Agency for Defense Development (ADD) and KAI, but approximately 225 private firms also partook in the process, including all of the country’s major defense contractors. Foreign stakeholders in the project include Indonesian Aerospace and the U.S. company Lockheed Martin, which provided technical assistance and several pieces of technology integral to the jet’s development. 

The KFX, a twin-engine fighter superior to the U.S.-built F-15, is set to replace the Air Force’s fleet of F-4 and F-5 fighters that were first purchased in the 1960s. By the time the first units of the jet are operationally deployed in 2026, the military capacity of Korea’s Air Force will have advanced leaps and bounds. 

While the KFX is classified as a 4.5-generation fighter with avionic and strike capabilities upgraded from the fourth-generation of combat aircraft built since the 1980s, it already possesses several stealth features and superior performance that could, with upgrades, possibly put it on par with the latest fifth-generation stealth aircraft. 

KAI has been reluctant to reveal precisely what type of stealth mechanisms the jet is equipped with, but its radar cross section (RCS) - the primary measure of stealth on military aircraft - measures only 0.5 square meters (5.4 square feet). The smaller the RCS is, the stealthier the aircraft. 

According to GlobalSecurity.org, a military data website, the U.S. Navy’s F/A-18E/F and France’s Dassault Rafale jets have an RCS of 1 square meter, the F-15 has 25 square meters and the fifth-generation F-35 has just 0.005 square meters. 

To allow the jet to hold such equipment, KAI designed the KFX’s fuselage to resemble a stealth jet akin to Lockheed Martin’s F-22. Most of the sensors are located inside the aircraft, while the four air-to-air missiles installed on the KFX are half buried in the central part of the fuselage. Space was also left on the aircraft for the future installation of an internal weapons bay - a characteristic component of stealth fighters. 

According to one KAI spokesperson, once the KFX’s stealth capacity is enhanced, it will be comparable to the F-117 - Lockheed Martin’s famed stealth attack aircraft that outclasses the F-35 in numerous ways. 

Capable of performing sharp maneuvers midcourse, the KFX jet is already set to be equipped with a host of cutting-edge equipment that makes it one of the world’s finest non-stealth combat aircraft. 

It far outmatches any aircraft owned by North Korea, which still largely operates Soviet models, as well as even those of China or Japan. In the event that aerial warfare breaks out in Northeast Asia, the Korean Air Force’s F-35As are set to face off against the enemy’s stealth aircraft, while its KFX and F-15K jets can hold off any hostile non-stealth aircraft. Once the KFX is upgraded in terms of its stealth functions, foreign powers may find it difficult to challenge Korea’s dominance over its own skies. 

When development began on France’s Dassault Rafale or the U.S. F-35 jets, the novelty of the technology inflated costs and caused several difficulties,” said Jeong Gwang-seon, the head of the KFX business project at DAPA. “We had an advantage when developing the KFX, since we could refer to these advanced countries’ technology and development process.” 

Given that it was designed with export in mind, around 65 percent of the jet’s components are domestically produced. While a single unit of the jet is currently estimated to cost around 80 billion won to build, producing a larger volume could mean these costs could lower over time. 

Exporting the jet and its key components could also open the doors to a variety of new opportunities for Korea’s defense industry. In particular, the country is moving toward domestic development for its air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles - a key part of its defense strategy against North Korea’s advancing missile program - through the experience it has gained through the KFX program. 

Lee Il-u, a managing director at KAI who led the development of the KFX’s fuselage, said the project allowed Korea’s development capacity for combat aircraft to “advance beyond” that of Britain or France. 

But the path to get here was by no means smooth. In 2001, former President Kim Dae-jung promised that Korea would begin developing its own next-generation fighter jets, but the 13 years since were wasted. Five separate feasibility studies were conducted by relevant organizations, but few were willing to stake their careers on a project of such an astronomical cost and risk at a time when Korea lacked the necessary technology. 

One of the biggest hurdles to the project came in 2015, when the U.S. government refused to allow the transfer of four of the 25 crucial technologies that Lockheed Martin agreed to provide Korea in exchange for Seoul’s purchase of its F-35 jets. Among these was an advanced radar system known as the Active Electronically Scanned Arrays, or ASEA, a game-changing component equipped in virtually all the latest generation military aircraft. 

Conventional radars with rotating antennas can only perform one function per unit, so aircraft must be equipped with multiple radar units to be capable of a variety of tasks like surveillance and tracking. AESA radars, on the other hand, are made up of a thickly packed matrix of small transmit and receive modules (TRM) that allow them to put out differently shaped signal beams that can rapidly and simultaneously detect and track multiple targets in the air, at sea or on the ground. 

Korea’s defense industry was thus forced to venture into terra incognita virtually blind in order to develop an ASEA radar for the KFX. The resulting domestically produced model has 1,088 TRMs compared to the approximately 1,200 TRMs on the F-35’s AESA radar. 

“ADD had the technology but the firm [Hanwha Systems] had no experience in making the radar, so we were concerned,” said Shin Hyun-ik, a radar development director at ADD. “But we have now become the 11th country in the world to develop an AESA radar.” Even Israel’s ELTA Systems, a global leader in defense electronics, rated Korea’s AESA radar as superior to that of Israel’s. 

A scaled down model of the AESA radar with 16 modules revealed by Hanwha Systems at its research center in Yongin, Gyeonggi, on Sept. 18 looked no larger than a fist. Yet it cost around 45 million won to build. Importing such a radar from abroad is estimated to cost around 80 million won. Close to 365.8 billion won has been invested into developing the AESA radar until 2026, but engineers have completed approximately 85 percent of its hardware. All parts of the radar will be produced domestically starting from next year. The radar will also be tested in Israel by next spring, followed by another flight test in Korea from next November. From 2023, it will be installed on the KFX prototype for a final round of testing. 

The development of the aircraft’s fuselage and system integration was also an enormous task. According to Ryu, KAI had to revise blueprints put out by the ADD during the exploratory stage a total of nine times before getting something that was to their satisfaction. Another major problem they encountered was reducing the weight of the jet. The target weight for the KFX was 12.1 metric tons (13 tons), but designers had to reduce an additional 500 kilograms (1,102 pounds) to account for future additions. “So we opted to offer 100,000 won in incentives to every researcher who was able to take off a kilogram off the jet’s weight,” Ryu said. Equally complicated was the process of seamlessly integrating the approximately 230,000 component parts - minus the engine - into the aircraft’s design, a number far greater than the average car, which has around 20 to 30,000 constituent components. 

At KAI’s factories in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang, around 1,250 researchers and engineers are hard at work developing the KFX. These professionals will also take on the role of transforming the jet into a stealth fighter, and eventually will begin preparations to work on the sixth-generation of combat aircraft. 

The KAI plans to release a prototype of the KFX by April 2021, and, after sufficient test flights, the first batch of eight jets are set to be delivered to the Air Force by 2026. Concerns remain, however, that the four-year duration reserved for flight tests may be insufficient to test out the weapon, since it is shorter than the five to eight years that advanced countries normally allocate for such testing. 

-ends-

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/a.../korea-kicks-off-stealth-fighter-program.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

*ADEX 2019: Indonesia committed to KF-X project despite fiscal concerns*
*Jon Grevatt, Seoul* - Jane's Defence Weekly
15 October 2019
Follow
RSS  




An artist impression of the KF-X fighter aircraft. South Korea is developing the platform in partnership with Indonesia, although the latter has fallen behind on payments. Source: DAPA 

More than 100 engineers from Indonesian aerospace company PT Dirgantara (PTDI) remain involved in the project with South Korea to develop the next-generation Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) fighter aircraft despite growing concern about the Southeast Asian country's financial involvement in the programme.

Industry officials told _Jane's_ at the 2019 Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition (ADEX) that ties between PTDI at Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI), which is leading the KF-X programme, remain strong even if the South Korean and Indonesian governments have yet to reach an agreement on how - and how much - Jakarta will pay towards the development project.

"We have 114 engineers working on the KF-X in Korea," said one official from KAI. "They are mainly working on the design of the aircraft but also on manufacturing processes." PTDI told _Jane's_ that its engineers' involvement in the programme is intended to support the company's long-term development and its ability to apply acquired skills across a range of platforms.

Industry officials would not comment directly on government-level talks intended to enable Jakarta to fund its involvement in the programme, which it refers to as IF-X. These talks started in October 2018 after Indonesia said that due to a lack of funding it wanted to renegotiate the financial arrangements that were agreed in 2015. Renegotiations were initially expected to be concluded within 12 months but have yet to be finalised.

Under the original KF-X finance agreement Indonesia is committed to pay for 20% of the total development costs of the aircraft, which are estimated at about USD8 billion. The South Korean government is committed to pay for 60% of costs, with KAI covering the remaining 20%.

https://www.janes.com/article/91903...itted-to-kf-x-project-despite-fiscal-concerns


----------



## Indos

*South Korea unveils fighter jet mock-up amid program challenges*
Josh Smith, Ju-min Park

October 15, 2019 / 6:09 PM / Updated 7 hours ago

SEONGNAM, South Korea (Reuters) - South Korea has displayed the first full-size mock-up of the KF-X fighter jet it is developing with Indonesia, after officials said the program passed key design reviews in September.






The next-generation aircraft being developed by Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) is designed to be a cheaper, less-stealthy alternative to the U.S.-built F-35, and the plan is to eventually replace most of South Korea’s older fighter jets and produce more for export.

The mock-up was displayed on Monday at the Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition (ADEX).

South Korea has ordered 40 of the advanced F-35A aircraft from the United States, the first of which arrived this year.

North Korea has condemned South Korea’s purchase of the F-35s, as well as the development of other advanced weapons.

KAI is currently manufacturing a KF-X prototype and plans to carry out ground testing and flight tests in 2021 and 2022, respectively, company officials said.

“On the face of it they are making good progress, but there are signs of challenges in the program,” said Greg Waldron, Asia managing editor for FlightGlobal, a publication covering the aerospace industry. Among these are Indonesia’s push to renegotiate how it will pay its portion of the costs, and breaking into an export market crowded with established alternatives, Waldron said.

“With a program this ambitious you really have to spread the cost among many partners,” he said. “They could sell a few here and there, but the problem is they are going to be kind of late to the market and there are already many strong aircraft already out there.”

South Korean and Indonesia agreed in 2014 to jointly develop the KF-X in a project worth 7.5 trillion won ($6.33 billion) with Jakarta agreeing to pay 20% of the cost.

Last year, however, Indonesia sought to renegotiate to take pressure off its foreign exchange reserves and has since offered to pay its share of the cost in the form of a barter.

The KF-X program also hit a snag when South Korea was forced to develop several key technologies after the United States refused to provide approval for the use of some systems, like a radar, which is now being developed by Hanwha Systems.

But KAI says the project is progressing, and is helping South Korea build on its earlier aircraft programs.

“We could not have done KF-X if we did not have experience in building T-50 and FA-50,” a senior company official said, speaking on condition of anonymity as he was not authorized to speak to the media. “We are advancing step by step.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...mock-up-amid-program-challenges-idUSKBN1WU1H2


----------



## casual

why don't i see any internal bays, is this a stealth jet or not?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

casual said:


> why don't i see any internal bays, is this a stealth jet or not?


Block 1 is the regular (4.5+++) version.

Block 2 is the stealth version.


----------



## Indos

KFXIFX Cockpit is presented in Adex 2019


----------



## Indos

Industry
*ADEX 2019: Lockheed Martin progresses F-35 offset projects in South Korea*
*Jon Grevatt, Seoul* - Jane's Defence Industry
17 October 2019





*Key Points*

US corporation engages with local industry on KFX technology transfers
South Korean firms also expanding involvement in F-35 component sustainment
Lockheed Martin is in the process of fulfilling its expansive defence offset obligations linked to the US government's sale of F-35 Lightning II fighter aircraft to the Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF).

Steve Over, director of F-35 international business development at Lockheed Martin, told _Jane's_ on 17 October that offset projects to provide a military communications satellite solution and technology transfers to support the development of South Korea's next-generation KFX fighter aircraft are currently under way. South Korea agreed to procure 40 F-35s in September 2014 for about USD7 billion.

Speaking at the 2019 Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition (ADEX), Over said that the RoKAF's F-35 procurement programme "had very specific [offset] requirements, resulting in a couple of rather large projects for us in Korea".

He added, "A military communications satellite was one of their requirements…. We [also] had a requirement to satisfy some amount of technology transfers associated with KFX, which we are in the process of fulfilling right now. That work is progressing well."

Over confirmed that in supporting the technology transfers Lockheed Martin is collaborating with Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI), the prime contractor on the KFX.

_Jane's_ has previously reported that South Korea's offset requirement on the F-35 programme included the provision of a military communications satellite, which will be fully owned and operated by the government. Offset covers the provision of the satellite, launching, orbit positioning, and technical training to operate the satellite.

In addition, the United States has granted approvals to support Lockheed Martin's transfer to South Korea of 21 technology suites to support the KFX. These suites include flight control technologies, avionics, system integration, materials, and unspecified weaponry.

https://www.janes.com/article/92019...rogresses-f-35-offset-projects-in-south-korea


----------



## Indos

Old news but still important as the news reveal some new information about its range and AESA development.

*ADEX 2019: KAI Unveils KF-X Mockup, New Surion Variants*
by Chen Chuanren
- October 15, 2019, 9:36 AM



The full-scale mockup of the KF-X was unveiled at ADEX, seen here with RoKAF crew for size comparison. (Photo: Chen Chuanren)

Following the completion of the critical design review in late September, Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) has lifted the curtains on a full-scale mockup and cockpit of the KF-X fighter at ADEX 2019 in Seoul, along with more technical details.

In February 2019 the KF-X team settled on the larger C109 design. With a maximum takeoff weight of 25.6 tonnes and a 7.7-tonne payload, the KF-X can achieve a range of 2,900 km (1,550 nm). KF-X has 10 weapons-carrying stations, and KAI will first focus its development around the Diehl IRIS-T and MBDA Meteor air-to-air missiles. It has opted for the M61 Vulcan cannon, mounted on the port side.

The cockpit layout is similar to that of the F-35, with an 8x20-inch touchscreen main display and sidestick controls. Around 65 percent of the project will be produced by local companies, including Hanwha Defence, which will produce the General Electric F414 turbofan under license, as well as landing gear, control actuators, and other components. LIGNex1 will manufacture the electronic countermeasures, head-up display, and radio systems. The KF-X will proceed with an indigenous LIGNex1 datalink, although KAI said that NATO links such as Link 16 will be considered once the program is more mature.

Hanwha has also developed—with some foreign assistance—its own infrared search and track system and a 1,088-TRM (transmit-receive module) AESA radar with 110-km range, which are two of the four primary items not approved for technology transfer by the United States. Although not involved in the KF-X radar program, LIGNex1 is in a three-year project to develop its own AESA radar, known as the Laser-A. The company says it will have more TRMs than its competitor and a 120-km range.

The KAI factory in Sacheon has already set up a KF-X line and is aiming for a prototype roll-out in the first quarter of 2021, first flight in 2022, and serial production in 2026, with all milestones currently on time, according to the company. The timeline suggests that the F-4E Phantoms and F-5E Tiger IIs will continue to fly with the Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF) for some years. The last remaining squadron of Phantoms is now not expected to be retired until 2022/23.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...9-kai-unveils-kf-x-mockup-new-surion-variants


----------



## Indos

The first bulkhead produced for the KFX first prototype quite literally is shaped as if there will be F-22 like belly IWBs.






February News


----------



## Indos

Interesting discussion going on here about KFX

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=53768&sid=24228ffd60dc04284381d17d2761fbe1


----------



## Indos

*South Korea to integrate MBDA’s Meteor missile onto KF-X fighter aircraft *

*



*
22/11/2019

MBDA has been awarded a contract from Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) for the integration of the Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missile onto the KF-X future Korean fighter aircraft.

The contract includes integration support to KAI, transfer of know-how and manufacture of test equipment for the KF-X integration and trials campaign.

Meteor is the world’s most advanced air-to-air missile, and has a unique ramjet propulsion system that allows it to fly further and faster than any other air-to-air missile – allowing it to defeat manoeuvering targets even at extreme ranges.

Éric Béranger, CEO of MBDA, said: “_We’re very pleased to mark this next and important step in our partnership with KAI and the Korean Defence Acquisition Program Administration. South Korea is a strategic market for MBDA, and we’re proud that Meteor will be providing KF-X with the world’s most potent air-to-air capability_.”

https://www.mbda-systems.com/press-...as-meteor-missile-onto-kf-x-fighter-aircraft/


----------



## Indos

KFX/IFX model being tested in Indonesian wind tunnel

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Indonesian economy is still growing about 5 percent this year and able to curb trade deficit from 8 billion dollar (2018) into 1.5 billion dollar in the last 10 months. AlhamduliLLAH. This is a good news for KFX/IFX program. Rupiah will likely be more stronger so that Jokowi administration doesnt need to have too much hesitancy to spend their dollar into the program. I hope Indonesia can keep growing and score surplus on its trade balance in 2020 and afterward so that it can finance the program until completion and procure 48 KFX as its initial agreement said.

News on KFX/IFX is that KFX block 2 program will be started in 2021 or after KFX first prototype is completed.

"The KF-X programme includes the production of six prototype platforms - with an initial platform prototype completed by the first half of 2021, and test flights in 2022; completion of platform trials and development is expected by mid-2026, with an initial production batch of 150-200 scheduled for the 2026-32 timeframe. DAPA will launch the KF-X Block 2 programme in 2021, which includes the development of internal weapon bays for the platform."

https://www.janes.com/article/92958/mbda-to-integrate-meteor-bvraam-on-rokaf-kf-x

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Indonesian flight test crew for KFX/IFX fighters are coming from Indonesian Air force pilots who are now studying aerospace in Bandung Institute of technology and also PT DI engineers who will learn how to be a jet fighter pilots and now is studying in fighter pilot academy in Indonesia. Those engineers and pilots then will study further in British test pilot school (ITPS) for test pilot specialist study.

Based on the current agreement, PT Dirgantara Indonesia will have 1 IFX prototype. With KFX/IFX program that has been going on since 2011, Indonesian Aerospace now have the experience to design a STEALTH fighter jet. This capabilities IMO is important for future PT DI development.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Passing the test [CANSEC17D1]*

31 May 2017

Established in 1986 in England and operating in Canada since 2001, the International Test Pilots School (ITPS, Booth 1926) is celebrating 30 years of providing specialist training services to the military and civil industry worldwide.

ITPS is one of only six test pilot schools worldwide accepting international students and its core business is training experienced pilots and engineers in the skills of test and evaluation (T&E) on fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft and unmanned aircraft systems (UASs).

ITPS’s portfolio of specialist training programmes includes tactical training such as the 16-week Fighter Weapons Instructors course, most recently presented in collaboration with the Indonesian Air Force, flying out of Iswayudi Air Force Base, East Java. Its expertise has led to a Memorandum of Understanding with the Indonesian Ministry of Defence for support in the training of flight test crews and engineers for the joint Korean/Indonesian KFX Fighter programme, which will also include advice on the planning and management of the flight testing of their prototypes.

Training contracts are in progress with Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) and Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) to train the flight test teams for the Turkish TAI 625 helicopter and Korean Light Commercial helicopter (LCH)/Light Armed helicopter (LAH).

European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) certification as an Approved Training Organisation (ATO) for Flight Test Training is expected in June, making ITPS the only such organisation in Canada.

Demand for training at ITPS has been growing steadily year on year and the company will be moving into a new purpose-built and much larger facility at London International Airport in 2018.

https://www.janes.com/article/70952/passing-the-test-cansec17d1

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

KFX/IFX renegotiation process is still going on and new defense minister Prabowo Subianto will lead Indonesian renegotiation team, replacing Wiranto, former security minister. South Korea defense minister has met Prabowo in Jakarta to discuss KFX/IFX program on Thursday this week. Prabowo said to the press that he want to enhance the defence cooperation with South Korea. This statement I think show that he is supportive to the program and would like to continue the program.






News is in Indonesian language.

https://news.detik.com/berita/d-482...harap-bisa-tingkatkan-kerja-sama-pertahanan/2


----------



## Indos

*KF-X Fighter's Electronic Warfare Ability*

Author: 안승범 Views: 574 13 1 Modified: 2019-08-09 03:15:35 (Source-from Monthly Defense Times July 2019)

The ALQ-200K Electronic Warfare Ford was employed in the KF-16 Fighter Program as well as the KF-16D Fighter. Unlike the existing ALQ-200K pod, the ALQ-200K for KF-X fighters will be reconfigured as a built-in electronic warfare system rather than an external pod.

To this end, the core components of the ALQ-200K will be embedded inside the KF-X fighter. Among the advantages of the ALQ-200K is its high output and high output antenna gain, which is important in the KF-X fighter program. This is because the Air Force requires the KF-X to produce high power electronic disturbances. ￼

For this reason, looking at the KF-X model, it can be seen that a large electronic warfare ECM antenna, reminiscent of the rear antenna of the ALQ-135M ICS, an electronic warfare equipment of the F-15K, will be installed at the rear of the KF-X fighter.

KF-X is designed as a low detectable rate (RCS) aircraft. The combination of low detection rate (RCS) and high power density of the electronic warfare system can result in low SNR for KF-X on enemy radars and RF seekers, even at relatively close range.

In other words, the KF-X fighter will have a very high survivability by incorporating a high power electronic warfare system into the KF-X fighter with a low RCS.

The original ALQ-200K Ford is powered by a KF-16D fighter seated external electronic warfare system that cannot accommodate the ASPJ Electronic Warfare Jammer's LRUs (consisting of five LRUs) inside the aircraft due to the rear seats.

The ASPJ and the ALQ-200K Ford aren't much different in terms of pilot interface. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.

The advantage is that the ASPJ equipment is built-in, so there is no drag increase and it does not occupy the centerline below the gas on which the fuel tank is mounted.

The ALQ-200K pose has the advantage of having a larger output and larger antenna than the built-in ASPJ, making the burn-through range smaller for the same disturbing target in the same tactical situation. And because it is domestic equipment, the upgrade is easier.

Other strengths of the ALQ-200K Ford include phase-contrast detection algorithms, high-directional disturbance signal transmission, ability to respond to High-Pulse Repetition Frequency (PRF) pulse-Doppler radars, and agile steering control using multiple beam phased array antennas. to be.

High PRF pulsed Doppler radar responsiveness allows the pulsed Doppler radar to cope with densely and agile use of modulation using frequency modulated baseband signals within short pulse repetition time (PRT) and agile modulation of the carrier itself.

By using a phased array antenna Lotman lens, the phases of each array port are different and the pencil beam steering angle is the same according to the selected frequency and the signal input time of each array port (depending on which beam port behind the array is selected).

Using multipoint multi-beam rapid steering, frequency modulation, and multiple disturbing target response using hops are typical advantages of the ALQ-200K. 

The mechanism's disturbing signal steering technology has also been applied to the Navy ship's flagship electronic warfare system, the SLQ-200K Sonata System.

It also benefits from the introduction of multiple phase channel reception and phase contrast probes, which have also been introduced in the ARD-300K (TAC-ELINT) pod for the RF-16 reconnaissance aircraft.

In conjunction with the phased array signal steering technique, the three-dimensional orientation of multiple disturbing targets can be precisely measured, and the measured orientation allows the use of rapid disturbance techniques.

http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/bbs/view.html?b_bbs_id=10158&pn=1&num=5647


----------



## eldamar

Indos said:


> *KF-X Fighter's Electronic Warfare Ability*
> 
> Author: 안승범 Views: 574 13 1 Modified: 2019-08-09 03:15:35 (Source-from Monthly Defense Times July 2019)
> 
> The ALQ-200K Electronic Warfare Ford was employed in the KF-16 Fighter Program as well as the KF-16D Fighter. Unlike the existing ALQ-200K pod, the ALQ-200K for KF-X fighters will be reconfigured as a built-in electronic warfare system rather than an external pod.
> 
> To this end, the core components of the ALQ-200K will be embedded inside the KF-X fighter. Among the advantages of the ALQ-200K is its high output and high output antenna gain, which is important in the KF-X fighter program. This is because the Air Force requires the KF-X to produce high power electronic disturbances. ￼
> 
> For this reason, looking at the KF-X model, it can be seen that a large electronic warfare ECM antenna, reminiscent of the rear antenna of the ALQ-135M ICS, an electronic warfare equipment of the F-15K, will be installed at the rear of the KF-X fighter.
> 
> KF-X is designed as a low detectable rate (RCS) aircraft. The combination of low detection rate (RCS) and high power density of the electronic warfare system can result in low SNR for KF-X on enemy radars and RF seekers, even at relatively close range.
> 
> In other words, the KF-X fighter will have a very high survivability by incorporating a high power electronic warfare system into the KF-X fighter with a low RCS.
> 
> The original ALQ-200K Ford is powered by a KF-16D fighter seated external electronic warfare system that cannot accommodate the ASPJ Electronic Warfare Jammer's LRUs (consisting of five LRUs) inside the aircraft due to the rear seats.
> 
> The ASPJ and the ALQ-200K Ford aren't much different in terms of pilot interface. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.
> 
> The advantage is that the ASPJ equipment is built-in, so there is no drag increase and it does not occupy the centerline below the gas on which the fuel tank is mounted.
> 
> The ALQ-200K pose has the advantage of having a larger output and larger antenna than the built-in ASPJ, making the burn-through range smaller for the same disturbing target in the same tactical situation. And because it is domestic equipment, the upgrade is easier.
> 
> Other strengths of the ALQ-200K Ford include phase-contrast detection algorithms, high-directional disturbance signal transmission, ability to respond to High-Pulse Repetition Frequency (PRF) pulse-Doppler radars, and agile steering control using multiple beam phased array antennas. to be.
> 
> High PRF pulsed Doppler radar responsiveness allows the pulsed Doppler radar to cope with densely and agile use of modulation using frequency modulated baseband signals within short pulse repetition time (PRT) and agile modulation of the carrier itself.
> 
> By using a phased array antenna Lotman lens, the phases of each array port are different and the pencil beam steering angle is the same according to the selected frequency and the signal input time of each array port (depending on which beam port behind the array is selected).
> 
> Using multipoint multi-beam rapid steering, frequency modulation, and multiple disturbing target response using hops are typical advantages of the ALQ-200K.
> 
> The mechanism's disturbing signal steering technology has also been applied to the Navy ship's flagship electronic warfare system, the SLQ-200K Sonata System.
> 
> It also benefits from the introduction of multiple phase channel reception and phase contrast probes, which have also been introduced in the ARD-300K (TAC-ELINT) pod for the RF-16 reconnaissance aircraft.
> 
> In conjunction with the phased array signal steering technique, the three-dimensional orientation of multiple disturbing targets can be precisely measured, and the measured orientation allows the use of rapid disturbance techniques.
> 
> http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/bbs/view.html?b_bbs_id=10158&pn=1&num=5647





=












only believe things when there's at least a prototype in existance.


----------



## Indos

Google Translate
*
KFX, 4.5 generations, but upgradeable to F 35 A and 5th generation*




Oh Dong Kyun _,_ 2019. 12. 20. 11:48

The Korean fighter (KFX) physical model, which will be responsible for the future of our airspace, first appeared at the Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition (Seoul ADEX 2019) held in Seoul Airport in Seongnam, Gyeonggi-do last October.

According to the Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) on the 5th, the fighter is 16.9m long, 4.7m high and 11.2m wide, which is larger in size and similar in shape to the American F35A fighter. The F35A is the fifth generation and the KFX is a 4.5th generation fighter, but the operating cost of KFX is only half that of the F35A.




The target maximum thrust is 44,000 lbs (lb), a maximum takeoff weight of 25,600 kg, a maximum speed of Mach 1.81 (2200 km / h) and a range of 2900 km. For higher maneuverability than the F35A, the maximum speed Mach 1.8.

● 4.5 generations, but operating costs half of F35A

The maximum payload is 7700 kg, with 10 pods installed on the bottom and wings of the aircraft. It can also be equipped with the latest air-to-air missiles and the Korean-type Taurus, the long-range air-to-air guidance weapon we are developing. In order to enhance its low-flying capability (stealth function), we plan to carry four air-to-air missiles into the aircraft.

However, despite these excellent performances and goals, there is still a lot of public criticism of KFX, and there are even extreme arguments for a full turn into the fifth generation of fighter development. The business has already been underway for a while, and I see opposition for opposition. I'm going to show you the other side of the business that they haven't seen.




According to the Defense Agency, the KFX project began in the fourth year this year, with 6,800 jobs created. The economic impact of the project, which was generated by 112 organizations including companies, research institutes and universities, is currently estimated at KRW 2.1 trillion.

As you know well, Geoje, Tongyeong, was in crisis of the level of regional economic collapse due to the shipbuilding recession. However, KAI, which is developing KFX, hired 55 out of 193 experienced workers (28.5%) in the shipbuilding industry from early this year to July.

From 2016 to last year, more than 200 skilled workers in the shipbuilding industry were transferred to KAI. The development of fighter jets is rapidly absorbing unemployed workers, stabilizing the local economy, and becoming a catalyst to change the industrial structure centered on the shipbuilding industry. There are seven years left to create more jobs.

● “Localization of all but low-economic sectors”

KFX's localization rate is 65%. For this reason, “Why is the localization rate not 100%? Wouldn't it be better to import it? ” But experts say that 'know only one, don't know two'. Korean Air Fighter Division, Chung Gwang-Seon Defense Agency explained, “We are localizing almost everything we can do except for development because of lack of technology or low economic feasibility such as engines, landing gear and guns.”

Korea's fighter development capability is now at a very early stage. The light aircraft `` FA50 '', known to be developed by us, also has many foreign parts, so many of the key equipment repairs are left to foreign companies. It is a modification of the supersonic high speed trainer 'T50', which was developed jointly with Lockheed Martin, and was difficult to call perfect localization.





However, KFX is developed as a 'reader platform', so it can be equipped with a domestic weapon system and electronic equipment at any time. Through performance improvements from Block 1 to Block 3, we plan to enhance stealth performance on the surface of the aircraft and improve the weapons, sensors, and radar capabilities.

It is pointed out that it is not a good idea to have a stealth function at once, but we must consider that we are now developing the technology of avionics equipment enough to have an early stage 'active scanning phased array (AESA) radar'.

If we consider higher technology, we will have to invest much more than 8 trillion and 800 billion won, and the development period will be extended. In the process of budgeting, you may face a crisis when you are forced to close your business because of your blame.





● Insist on 100% stealth and give up business

Even Japan, which has developed the world's first AESA radar and has already secured fighter stealth technology, is expecting 17 trillion won for development. Insisting that 'you have to give up your achievements and go to stealth all at once' is actually a claim to quit business.

According to the `` Defense Industry Statistics and Competitiveness White Paper '' released in January of this year by Korea Research Institute, sales of defense companies in the aviation sector reached a high of 3.49 trillion won in 2016, but in 2017, they dropped 1 trillion won to 2.49 trillion won. Exports also decreased from 85.53 billion won to 304.1 billion won during the same period. As of 2017, the aviation sector accounted for 17.2% of the domestic defense industry's sales, followed by thermal power (33.2%).





In this situation, the KFX business has emerged as a salvation pitcher. The proportion of R & D personnel in the aviation sector was 36.9%, an increase of 6.8 percentage points compared to the previous year. Unable to empower the business Now, the first step of the development team's fraudulent deception can lead to a 'butterfly effect' that shrinks the defense industry in its turn.

According to a report written by Professor Park Jae-chan of Yeungnam University, it is estimated that KFX's technology ripple effect will reach 1.2 trillion won based on the 65% localization rate. It has been analyzed to affect almost all aerospace sectors, including other aircraft design and equipment development and pilot training.

● Fostering a platform for the Southeast Asian market





This is an important opportunity to lead to fighter planes as well as overseas exports of aviation equipment. Although we were frustrated with T50 US exports and Surion helicopter exports to the Philippines, opportunities will come again as we continue to advance our technology. In particular, KFX has a low operating cost of half the F35A and F15K, which is our flagship model.

In April, Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marines signed an agreement with Indonesia to sell three Janbobogo (1200 ton) submarines for KRW 1.16 trillion. The Jango Treasury is a submarine built on technology that was passed down in Germany 20 years ago. The future of our defense industry is here. In a short period of time, there is no technology that can be made in your head.

*[출처]* KFX,‘4.5세대’이지만 운영비 F35A 절반,5세대까지 업그레이드 가능|*작성자* 오동균

https://blog.naver.com/odk1956/221743572394


----------



## eldamar

Indos said:


> Google Translate
> *
> KFX, 4.5 generations, but upgradeable to F 35 A and 5th generation*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Dong Kyun _,_ 2019. 12. 20. 11:48
> 
> The Korean fighter (KFX) physical model, which will be responsible for the future of our airspace, first appeared at the Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition (Seoul ADEX 2019) held in Seoul Airport in Seongnam, Gyeonggi-do last October.
> 
> According to the Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) on the 5th, the fighter is 16.9m long, 4.7m high and 11.2m wide, which is larger in size and similar in shape to the American F35A fighter. The F35A is the fifth generation and the KFX is a 4.5th generation fighter, but the operating cost of KFX is only half that of the F35A.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The target maximum thrust is 44,000 lbs (lb), a maximum takeoff weight of 25,600 kg, a maximum speed of Mach 1.81 (2200 km / h) and a range of 2900 km. For higher maneuverability than the F35A, the maximum speed Mach 1.8.
> 
> ● 4.5 generations, but operating costs half of F35A
> 
> The maximum payload is 7700 kg, with 10 pods installed on the bottom and wings of the aircraft. It can also be equipped with the latest air-to-air missiles and the Korean-type Taurus, the long-range air-to-air guidance weapon we are developing. In order to enhance its low-flying capability (stealth function), we plan to carry four air-to-air missiles into the aircraft.
> 
> However, despite these excellent performances and goals, there is still a lot of public criticism of KFX, and there are even extreme arguments for a full turn into the fifth generation of fighter development. The business has already been underway for a while, and I see opposition for opposition. I'm going to show you the other side of the business that they haven't seen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Defense Agency, the KFX project began in the fourth year this year, with 6,800 jobs created. The economic impact of the project, which was generated by 112 organizations including companies, research institutes and universities, is currently estimated at KRW 2.1 trillion.
> 
> As you know well, Geoje, Tongyeong, was in crisis of the level of regional economic collapse due to the shipbuilding recession. However, KAI, which is developing KFX, hired 55 out of 193 experienced workers (28.5%) in the shipbuilding industry from early this year to July.
> 
> From 2016 to last year, more than 200 skilled workers in the shipbuilding industry were transferred to KAI. The development of fighter jets is rapidly absorbing unemployed workers, stabilizing the local economy, and becoming a catalyst to change the industrial structure centered on the shipbuilding industry. There are seven years left to create more jobs.
> 
> ● “Localization of all but low-economic sectors”
> 
> KFX's localization rate is 65%. For this reason, “Why is the localization rate not 100%? Wouldn't it be better to import it? ” But experts say that 'know only one, don't know two'. Korean Air Fighter Division, Chung Gwang-Seon Defense Agency explained, “We are localizing almost everything we can do except for development because of lack of technology or low economic feasibility such as engines, landing gear and guns.”
> 
> Korea's fighter development capability is now at a very early stage. The light aircraft `` FA50 '', known to be developed by us, also has many foreign parts, so many of the key equipment repairs are left to foreign companies. It is a modification of the supersonic high speed trainer 'T50', which was developed jointly with Lockheed Martin, and was difficult to call perfect localization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, KFX is developed as a 'reader platform', so it can be equipped with a domestic weapon system and electronic equipment at any time. Through performance improvements from Block 1 to Block 3, we plan to enhance stealth performance on the surface of the aircraft and improve the weapons, sensors, and radar capabilities.
> 
> It is pointed out that it is not a good idea to have a stealth function at once, but we must consider that we are now developing the technology of avionics equipment enough to have an early stage 'active scanning phased array (AESA) radar'.
> 
> If we consider higher technology, we will have to invest much more than 8 trillion and 800 billion won, and the development period will be extended. In the process of budgeting, you may face a crisis when you are forced to close your business because of your blame.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ● Insist on 100% stealth and give up business
> 
> Even Japan, which has developed the world's first AESA radar and has already secured fighter stealth technology, is expecting 17 trillion won for development. Insisting that 'you have to give up your achievements and go to stealth all at once' is actually a claim to quit business.
> 
> According to the `` Defense Industry Statistics and Competitiveness White Paper '' released in January of this year by Korea Research Institute, sales of defense companies in the aviation sector reached a high of 3.49 trillion won in 2016, but in 2017, they dropped 1 trillion won to 2.49 trillion won. Exports also decreased from 85.53 billion won to 304.1 billion won during the same period. As of 2017, the aviation sector accounted for 17.2% of the domestic defense industry's sales, followed by thermal power (33.2%).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this situation, the KFX business has emerged as a salvation pitcher. The proportion of R & D personnel in the aviation sector was 36.9%, an increase of 6.8 percentage points compared to the previous year. Unable to empower the business Now, the first step of the development team's fraudulent deception can lead to a 'butterfly effect' that shrinks the defense industry in its turn.
> 
> According to a report written by Professor Park Jae-chan of Yeungnam University, it is estimated that KFX's technology ripple effect will reach 1.2 trillion won based on the 65% localization rate. It has been analyzed to affect almost all aerospace sectors, including other aircraft design and equipment development and pilot training.
> 
> ● Fostering a platform for the Southeast Asian market
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an important opportunity to lead to fighter planes as well as overseas exports of aviation equipment. Although we were frustrated with T50 US exports and Surion helicopter exports to the Philippines, opportunities will come again as we continue to advance our technology. In particular, KFX has a low operating cost of half the F35A and F15K, which is our flagship model.
> 
> In April, Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marines signed an agreement with Indonesia to sell three Janbobogo (1200 ton) submarines for KRW 1.16 trillion. The Jango Treasury is a submarine built on technology that was passed down in Germany 20 years ago. The future of our defense industry is here. In a short period of time, there is no technology that can be made in your head.
> 
> *[출처]* KFX,‘4.5세대’이지만 운영비 F35A 절반,5세대까지 업그레이드 가능|*작성자* 오동균
> 
> https://blog.naver.com/odk1956/221743572394



=


















that's not the prototype of the KFX fighter


If anything, Iran boasted about having this:







yet save for some spurious photos , verifiable videos of it in the sky is still nowhere in sight, 7 years since its first public announcement.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1


----------



## Indos

Single and two seats variants of KFX/IFX fighter. Photo from Dapa. https://www.facebook.com/pg/dapa.Korea/photos/?ref=page_internal


----------



## eldamar

eldarlmari said:


> =
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's not the prototype of the KFX fighter
> 
> 
> If anything, Iran boasted about having this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yet save for some spurious photos , verifiable videos of it in the sky is still nowhere in sight, 7 years since its first public announcement.


u can give me x10 negative ratings u want- this isnt the first time u have done so anyway, mr 'think-tank'- i could care less about them.


unless u can prove me wrong by providing evidences of a working prototype in existance for the KFX, i standby my position that the plane is nothing more than:


----------



## NEKONEKO

Indos said:


> Google Translate
> *
> KFX, 4.5 generations, but upgradeable to F 35 A and 5th generation*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Dong Kyun _,_ 2019. 12. 20. 11:48
> 
> The Korean fighter (KFX) physical model, which will be responsible for the future of our airspace, first appeared at the Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition (Seoul ADEX 2019) held in Seoul Airport in Seongnam, Gyeonggi-do last October.
> 
> According to the Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) on the 5th, the fighter is 16.9m long, 4.7m high and 11.2m wide, which is larger in size and similar in shape to the American F35A fighter. The F35A is the fifth generation and the KFX is a 4.5th generation fighter, but the operating cost of KFX is only half that of the F35A.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The target maximum thrust is 44,000 lbs (lb), a maximum takeoff weight of 25,600 kg, a maximum speed of Mach 1.81 (2200 km / h) and a range of 2900 km. For higher maneuverability than the F35A, the maximum speed Mach 1.8.
> 
> ● 4.5 generations, but operating costs half of F35A
> 
> The maximum payload is 7700 kg, with 10 pods installed on the bottom and wings of the aircraft. It can also be equipped with the latest air-to-air missiles and the Korean-type Taurus, the long-range air-to-air guidance weapon we are developing. In order to enhance its low-flying capability (stealth function), we plan to carry four air-to-air missiles into the aircraft.
> 
> However, despite these excellent performances and goals, there is still a lot of public criticism of KFX, and there are even extreme arguments for a full turn into the fifth generation of fighter development. The business has already been underway for a while, and I see opposition for opposition. I'm going to show you the other side of the business that they haven't seen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Defense Agency, the KFX project began in the fourth year this year, with 6,800 jobs created. The economic impact of the project, which was generated by 112 organizations including companies, research institutes and universities, is currently estimated at KRW 2.1 trillion.
> 
> As you know well, Geoje, Tongyeong, was in crisis of the level of regional economic collapse due to the shipbuilding recession. However, KAI, which is developing KFX, hired 55 out of 193 experienced workers (28.5%) in the shipbuilding industry from early this year to July.
> 
> From 2016 to last year, more than 200 skilled workers in the shipbuilding industry were transferred to KAI. The development of fighter jets is rapidly absorbing unemployed workers, stabilizing the local economy, and becoming a catalyst to change the industrial structure centered on the shipbuilding industry. There are seven years left to create more jobs.
> 
> ● “Localization of all but low-economic sectors”
> 
> KFX's localization rate is 65%. For this reason, “Why is the localization rate not 100%? Wouldn't it be better to import it? ” But experts say that 'know only one, don't know two'. Korean Air Fighter Division, Chung Gwang-Seon Defense Agency explained, “We are localizing almost everything we can do except for development because of lack of technology or low economic feasibility such as engines, landing gear and guns.”
> 
> Korea's fighter development capability is now at a very early stage. The light aircraft `` FA50 '', known to be developed by us, also has many foreign parts, so many of the key equipment repairs are left to foreign companies. It is a modification of the supersonic high speed trainer 'T50', which was developed jointly with Lockheed Martin, and was difficult to call perfect localization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, KFX is developed as a 'reader platform', so it can be equipped with a domestic weapon system and electronic equipment at any time. Through performance improvements from Block 1 to Block 3, we plan to enhance stealth performance on the surface of the aircraft and improve the weapons, sensors, and radar capabilities.
> 
> It is pointed out that it is not a good idea to have a stealth function at once, but we must consider that we are now developing the technology of avionics equipment enough to have an early stage 'active scanning phased array (AESA) radar'.
> 
> If we consider higher technology, we will have to invest much more than 8 trillion and 800 billion won, and the development period will be extended. In the process of budgeting, you may face a crisis when you are forced to close your business because of your blame.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ● Insist on 100% stealth and give up business
> 
> Even Japan, which has developed the world's first AESA radar and has already secured fighter stealth technology, is expecting 17 trillion won for development. Insisting that 'you have to give up your achievements and go to stealth all at once' is actually a claim to quit business.
> 
> According to the `` Defense Industry Statistics and Competitiveness White Paper '' released in January of this year by Korea Research Institute, sales of defense companies in the aviation sector reached a high of 3.49 trillion won in 2016, but in 2017, they dropped 1 trillion won to 2.49 trillion won. Exports also decreased from 85.53 billion won to 304.1 billion won during the same period. As of 2017, the aviation sector accounted for 17.2% of the domestic defense industry's sales, followed by thermal power (33.2%).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this situation, the KFX business has emerged as a salvation pitcher. The proportion of R & D personnel in the aviation sector was 36.9%, an increase of 6.8 percentage points compared to the previous year. Unable to empower the business Now, the first step of the development team's fraudulent deception can lead to a 'butterfly effect' that shrinks the defense industry in its turn.
> 
> According to a report written by Professor Park Jae-chan of Yeungnam University, it is estimated that KFX's technology ripple effect will reach 1.2 trillion won based on the 65% localization rate. It has been analyzed to affect almost all aerospace sectors, including other aircraft design and equipment development and pilot training.
> 
> ● Fostering a platform for the Southeast Asian market
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an important opportunity to lead to fighter planes as well as overseas exports of aviation equipment. Although we were frustrated with T50 US exports and Surion helicopter exports to the Philippines, opportunities will come again as we continue to advance our technology. In particular, KFX has a low operating cost of half the F35A and F15K, which is our flagship model.
> 
> In April, Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marines signed an agreement with Indonesia to sell three Janbobogo (1200 ton) submarines for KRW 1.16 trillion. The Jango Treasury is a submarine built on technology that was passed down in Germany 20 years ago. The future of our defense industry is here. In a short period of time, there is no technology that can be made in your head.
> 
> *[출처]* KFX,‘4.5세대’이지만 운영비 F35A 절반,5세대까지 업그레이드 가능|*작성자* 오동균
> 
> https://blog.naver.com/odk1956/221743572394





eldarlmari said:


> =
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's not the prototype of the KFX fighter
> 
> 
> If anything, Iran boasted about having this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yet save for some spurious photos , verifiable videos of it in the sky is still nowhere in sight, 7 years since its first public announcement.


What you have failed to understand is that it was a google translate version, he never said anything about finished prototype ( I am sure he and most indonesian member here understand that it was a full scale mock up being displayed at the show because we pretty much following the news and development closely, and @Indos never being a blue pilled citizen that spewing stuff about KFX is finished and its bla... bla... and can feckin bla... bla... while bla... bla.. and bla...) the problem is that the word 'physical model' and you assumed it was a finished working prototype, google translate is not that perfect any way so there is a possibility that in the actual article the writer write about a full scale mock up and somehow the google translate mess it up, and you went full batshet crazy. I don't know korean language so its just my assumption, Any member from SK maybe can clear things out( if there is any). Thank you and gamsahabnida.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## eldamar

jek_sperrow said:


> What you have failed to understand is that it was a google translate version, he never said anything about finished prototype ( I am sure he and most indonesian member here understand that it was a full scale mock up being displayed at the show because we pretty much following the news and development closely, and @Indos never being a blue pilled citizen that spewing stuff about KFX is finished and its bla... bla... and can feckin bla... bla... while bla... bla.. and bla...) the problem is that the word 'physical model' and you assumed it was a finished working prototype, google translate is not that perfect any way so there is a possibility that in the actual article the writer write about a full scale mock up and somehow the google translate mess it up, and you went full batshet crazy. I don't know korean language so its just my assumption, Any member from SK maybe can clear things out( if there is any). Thank you and gamsahabnida.


Nope, your post doesn't refute my point that the kfx is a vaporware- at all. in fact, u supported it.

Thanks.


----------



## NEKONEKO

eldarlmari said:


> kfx is a vaporware


ΞＶΞＮ ＢΞＴＴΣＲ
( ☆ ͜ʖ ☆)



eldarlmari said:


> Thanks


Karibu


----------



## Indos

*Elbit Systems Awarded $43 Million Contract to Equip Next-Gen Korean Fighter Jets in Development with TF/TA Systems*
*Haifa, Israel, February 6, 2020 – Elbit Systems Ltd. (NASDAQ: ESLT, TASE: ESLT)* 

(“Elbit Systems”) announced today that it was awarded a $43 million contract from Hanwha Systems Co. Ltd. (272210:Korea SE) to equip the Next Generation Korean fighter jets in development, with embedded Terrain Following-Terrain Avoidance (TF/TA) systems. The contract will be performed over a six-year period.

Embedding Elbit Systems’ TF/TA solution enables fighter jets to fly and maneuver safely at low-altitudes, in zero visibility and harsh weather conditions (Instrument Meteorological Conditions), thereby enhancing their capability to operate undetected in hostile territory. Interfacing with the autopilot system, the TF/TA system to be supplied fuses data from a range of onboard sensors and a digital terrain elevation data base, together with flight performance characteristics, enabling the aircraft to maintain optimal altitude throughout the mission.

*Yoram Shmuely, Executive Vice President and General Manager of Elbit Systems Aerospace Division, *said: “We are proud to be in a position to increase the capabilities of Air Forces *through joint development with Hanwha* Systems Co. Ltd.*“.

https://elbitsystems.com/pr-new/elb...ghter-jets-in-development-with-tf-ta-systems/*


----------



## Indos

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1230990703599050753
I think Korean need to give some of Indonesian demand on the renegotiation in order to convince Jokowi to continue the program.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Coronavirus outbreak has hit Sout Korea but so far there is no report that the virus has affected the KFX/IFX program. Around 100 Indonesian engineers involved in the program look like to be still working in South Korea to finish the first prototype. There is no report saying otherwise. 

Luckily the critical design has almost been completed in November last year and IMO it will already be completed at this late February.


----------



## Indos

https://www.facebook.com/ROKArmedFo...q5HaBkRItFe7YJFdR2Xxp0H5twBUFG7my6_lkLx9Quxx-

Defense journalist Yu Young-won was granted exclusive interview with Hong Yoon-seong, the lead Hanwha Systems developer in charge of the AESA radar being developed for the KF-X project.
The following is the summary:
- Development is going smooth and on schedule. Mr. Hong says that they're currently at around "50%" progress.

- There was a lot of risk involved with indigenous radar development and so they worked with the Agency for Defense Development (ADD) and Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) to mitigate it

One way was to prove that they can attain level of technology required for complete development, and they did so by creating a prototype for the hardware (HW) aspect of the development. Once the hardware was confirmed to work, they would proceed with the rest of the system by each stage, which includes software (SW) development..

Hanwha Systems developed radar antenna and power supply, which were then integrated and tested with ELTA Systems signal processor. This was to test the feasibility of using indigenously developed HW for aircraft use.

By November 2019, 10 overseas and 6 domestic aerial testing sorties had been carried out. These tests proved that the HW works as intended and that development can continue to the next stage.

- While exact data is classified, KF-X AESA radar's Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) mode provides high-quality image up to an object smaller than 1 meter.

- KF-X AESA radar can detect and track hundreds of ground targets, and this capability can be applied to hunting down North Korea's transporter erector launchers (TEL).

(The radar has air-to-air, air-to-ground, and air-to-sea modes, which can be used simultaneously)

- Prototype KF-X AESA radar had around 1,088 Transmitter-Receiver Module (TRM).
By 2023, the number is expected to increase by 20% to have around 1,200~1,300 modules. (F-22's radar has 2,000 and F-35's radar has 1,200)

- KF-X AESA radar is expected to perform better than AN/APG-83 being installed on KF-16V.

- Maximum detection range is said to be around 200 km (unknown against which-sized target)

- Flight testing done in Israel was said to be highly satisfactory


Current iteration of KF-X AESA Radar HW prototype


----------



## Indos

The thing that needs to be corrected is the statement in the article saying that KFX will get inferior engine than F35. It is in someway try to say that it has less power then F 35. It is not true since KFX has double engine compared to F 35 single engine. KFX uses General Electric F 414 engine which is also used by Superhornet.

* What the KF-X Stealth Fighter Program Means for the Future of South Korean Military Aviation *
The KF-X is expected to be one of the world’s most successful fifth generation fighter programs.

By *Abraham Ait*
March 07, 2020




South Korea’s T-50 Golden Eagle.

Credit: Wikimedia Commons/ Republic of Korea Armed Forces

Following the success of its F-50 fourth generation light fighter program, which has been widely exported and proven highly effective in combat in Iraq and the Philippines, South Korea’s Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) has sought to develop a fifth generation fighter under the KF-X program. The program is highly ambitious, with South Korea being relatively new to the field of military aviation — particularly so when considering that only two countries in the world, China and the United States, have deployed indigenously developed fifth generation fighters in active Air Force units. The KF-X program was announced in 2001, four years before the United States inducted its F-22 Raptor into service as the wold’s first fifth generation fighter. Indonesian Aerospace began a second partner in the program alongside KAI in 2010. The Korean side held 80 percent of the shares in the program while Indonesia, with its lower defense expenditure, less advanced military industrial base and smaller planned purchases, held the remaining 20 percent.

The KF-X was to be a light single seat twin engine jet with advanced stealth capabilities, and would prioritize a low operational cost and ease of maintenance which would allow South Korea’s Air Force to field it in large numbers. This would also be key to successfully marketing the jet for export, with Southeast Asian in particular notably prizing then F-50 for precisely this reason. South Korea’s fighter fleet is among the largest in the world today, and with much of the fleet fast ageing there is room to induct several hundred KF-X jets into service. This is key to ensuring a considerable scale of production and a cost-effective final product.

The fighter is expected to replace South Korea’s Vietnam War era F-4E Phantoms and F-5E Tigers — the latter which is its most widely deployed fighter today with around 175 in service. Alongside two F-4 units each of 30 Phantoms, third generation jets are currently in service in ten squadrons. If all are replaced with the KF-X, it would allow for a considerable production run for domestic use alone exceeding the expected production runs of all other fifth generation fighter programs in the world other than the American F-35 and possibly the Chinese J-20. The higher operational cost of the KF-X, particularly compared to the F-5, will likely mean that either the number of squadrons will be cut or that squadrons will be made considerably smaller as the Tigers are phased out for new stealth fighters.

Beyond replacing South Korea’s third generation fighters, the KF-X also has the potential to replace a large portion of the Air Force fourth generation fleet — currently comprised of F-16 and F-15K platforms. South Korea received its first F-16 fighters in the 1980s and currently fields 163 of the aircraft, alongside 60 of the more recently acquired F-15s. The F-15K is still a very modern heavyweight jet highly capable in both strike and air to air roles, and neither the F-35 nor the KF-X will be able to match its flight performance or its endurance. The F-16, designed as a lighter and cheaper analogue to the F-15, is increasingly considered to be bordering on obsolescence, with officials from Singapore’s Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen to U.S. Air Force Air Combat Command chief General Mike Hostage predicting the aircraft would become obsolete in the near future. While regular Korean upgrades to the design can potentially extend its service life, particularly for later production variants, it is likely that South Korea’s Air Force will seek to retire at least a large portion of the fleet for replacement with the KF-X. The new stealth fighter’s relatively low operational cost will make this quite affordable, and will represent a serious upgrade to the South Korean fleet.

Beyond acquisitions for its own Air Force, the KF-X is expected to be marketed for export with Southeast Asian nations in particular expected to be leading clients. Thailand, the Philippines, Indonesia and possibly even Iraq could be leading clients for the fighter, with all of these operating the F-50 and either the F-16 or the F-5 which the KF-X was designed to replace. While less stealthy than the F-35 and integrating a less powerful engine, the KF-X’s advantages go beyond its lower operational cost, easier maintenance and lower price. The new fighter is expected to be faster and able to operate at higher altitudes than the F-16 and F-35, and will have access to a range of advanced munition types. Most notable among these are an indigenous derivative of the European Taurus bunker buster long range cruise missile — one of the most capable in the world currently deployed by F-15K strike fighters, and Meteor long range air to air missiles which have approximately twice the range of the AIM-120C AMRAAMS used by the F-35. The fighters are also expected to be compatible with American missile classes, meaning they could likely begin to integrate AIM-260 long range air to air missiles which are expected to begin to enter service in the second half of the decade. These missiles are expected to be faster, more maneuverable, longer ranged, more precise and cheaper than the European Meteor. Should South Korea’s contract to acquire Taurus missiles be taken as a precedent, the country could seek technology transfers as part of its contract to acquire Meteor missiles which could in turn allow to manufacture missiles with similar capabilities domestically.

Based on the precedents set for very high performance and cost effective weapons systems set by South Korea’s defense sector — from K9 Thunder artillery and K2 Black Panther battle tanks to the F-50 fighter and Hyunmoo-3 cruise missile, the KF-X is expected to be one of the world’s most successful fifth generation fighter programs — quite possibly the most successful outside China and the United States. With Russia’s Su-57 program stymied by a very small production run, Turkey’s seemingly overly ambitious TF-X program heavily reliant on foreign technologies and coming from a country with a much more limited domestic technological base, and the Pakistani Project AZM fighter expected to be built around Chinese rather than indigenous technologies and place a heavy emphasis on cost reduction much like the preceding JF-17, this leaves the KF-X as a leader among indigenous fifth generation programs outside China and the United States.

*Enjoying this article?* Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.

_Abraham Ait is a military analyst specializing in Asia-Pacific security and the role of air power in modern warfare. He is chief editor of _Military Watch Magazine_.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/wha...the-future-of-south-korean-military-aviation/_


----------



## Indos

Latest Video


----------



## NEKONEKO

Indos said:


> KFX will get inferior engine than F35


But that is true tho, F35 have superior engine, more than twice of thrust compared to F414 but kfx is faster.
Kfx designed to have max speed of 1.8 mach, a little bit faster than F35 with 1.6 mach.
Cmiiw


----------



## Indos

NEKONEKO said:


> But that is true tho, F35 have superior engine, more than twice of thrust compared to F414 but kfx is faster.
> Kfx designed to have max speed of 1.8 mach, a little bit faster than F35 with 1.6 mach.
> Cmiiw



That is right if we calculate the thrust on a single engine, but KFX/IFX uses twin engine so the thrust is actually not much different compared to F 35.


----------



## Indos

Single and Double seat KFX/IFX design










https://blog.naver.com/koreaaerospace2030/221824177350


----------



## Indos

*South Korea hopes that the KFX / IFX aircraft project will resume soon*

Tuesday, January 14, 2020 20:20 WIB





Because there was a change of cabinet after the election in Indonesia last year, efforts to advance the fighter plane development project were delayed

Jakarta (ANTARA) - The South Korean government hopes that the _Korean Fighter Experimental / Indonesian Fighter Experimental_ (KFX / IFX) fighter project developed with Indonesia can be continued soon.

"Because there was a change of cabinet after the elections in Indonesia last year, efforts to advance the fighter aircraft development project have been delayed," South Korean Ambassador to Indonesia Kim Chang-beom told a media briefing in Jakarta on Tuesday.

Therefore in December 2019, South Korean Defense Minister Jeong Kyeong-doo visited Jakarta and met with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto to continue talks on developing a fighter aircraft.

The discussion is expected to pave the way for negotiations so that the project can be carried out immediately.

"Right now we are waiting for a return visit from Pak (Defense Minister) Prabowo to Korea to continue the previous talks," Ambassador Kim said.

Also read: Indonesian KFX / IFX fighter specifications can be different The

Ministry of Defense is currently reviewing the KFX / IFX fighter aircraft cooperation project that was initiated a number of years ago considering that this type of high-tech fighter is needed to strengthen Indonesia's main defense system (defense equipment).

The KFX / IFX fighter development project was delayed around 2009, before then on January 7, 2016 Indonesia and South Korea signed a cost sharing _agreement_) worth 1.3 billion US dollars.

For this long-term project, the total investment of the two countries reaches US $ 8 billion which will involve the state budget of each country.

In this collaboration, the Korean government bears the usual 60 percent of aircraft development, while the other 20 percent is borne by the Korean aircraft manufacturing company (KAI), and the remaining 20 are the responsibility of the Indonesian government.

The two countries are targeting the production of 168 KFX / IFX aircraft with a division that is adjusted to their respective contributions, namely 120 units for South Korea and 48 units for Indonesia.

Also read: The process of developing KFX / IFX fighter aircraft reached 20 percent

The KFX / IFX aircraft will be developed through three phases: technological or concept development, manufacturing engineering or prototype development, then mass production processes.

Indonesia and South Korea plan to make 8 prototype aircraft, with details of 6 prototypes that can be flown and 2 prototypes that are deliberately not flown for the purpose of structural testing.

The target is that in 2021 the first prototype can be completed, then followed by other prototypes before mass production is carried out after certification.

KFX / IFX fighter planes are said to have special abilities, among others, to damage the enemy's electronic system (electronic jammer). This type of aircraft is also included in the semi-stealth category because even though the engine is not detected, the heat from the weapons installed outside the fuselage can still be read by radar.

In addition, this supersonic aircraft is equipped with a radar system that can capture the movements of opponents from all directions.

Also read: Menkopolhukam: KFX / IFX fighter aircraft development seek return buy
Also read: Menkopolhukam renegotiate KFX / IFX fighter development

https://www.antaranews.com/berita/1...rap-proyek-pesawat-kfx-ifx-segera-dilanjutkan

There is some mistake on the news which said the program is delayed in 2009, the truth is the delay happen in the period of 2014-2015. This article is the latest news about on going renegotiation between Indonesian and Korea in KFX/IFX program. I expect our Defense Minister will visit South Korea soon after the Covid 19 outbreak over to discuss the program with South Korea Defense Minister. So far there are only rumors about the program development.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

*South Korea to complete development of supersonic ship-launched anti-ship missile in ‘near future’*
*Dae Young Kim, Seoul* - Jane's Defence Weekly
14 April 2020
Follow
Officials from South Korea’s Ministry of National Defense (MND) have revealed that the country is set to complete development of a supersonic ship-launched anti-ship cruise missile system “in the near future”, and that the country is planning to develop an air-launched variant of the weapon that can be deployed from Republic of Korea Air Force’s (RoKAF’s) future KF-X fighter aircraft.

Speaking on condition of anonymity due to the classified nature of the programme, the officials told _Jane’s_ in late March that the country’s Agency for Defense Development (ADD) had been in charge of the development, with the system expected to be capable of targeting larger ships, potentially as part of an enemy carrier group.


https://www.janes.com/article/95486...hip-launched-anti-ship-missile-in-near-future


----------



## Indos

Full Scale Mock Up

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos




----------



## Agha Sher

Indos said:


>



No internal weapon bays?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Agha Sher said:


> No internal weapon bays?



The final design has been made with internal weapon bay in mind. The internal weapon bay will be included in block 2 according to the plan. Despite that, according to DAPA Korea, the development of block 2 will be started in 2021, the time where first prototype is expected to be rolled out. So there is still chance that KFX Block 1 will only be produced for development only and mass production will be started from block 2.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> The final design has been made with internal weapon bay in mind. The internal weapon bay will be included in block 2 according to the plan. Despite that, according to DAPA Korea, the development of block 2 will be started in 2021, the time where first prototype is expected to be rolled out. So there is still chance that KFX Block 1 will only be produced for development only and mass production will be started from block 2.



Not really. The internal weapon bay will be fitted in KFX only in Block 3. Mass production will start from Block 1. In fact, the first batch of KFX jets will be only good for BVR air to air combats with limited CAS capabilities.


----------



## Indos

SgtGungHo said:


> Not really. The internal weapon bay will be fitted in KFX only in Block 3. Mass production will start from Block 1. In fact, the first batch of KFX jets will be only good for BVR air to air combats with limited CAS capabilities.



Can you provide some news that back your claim. My claim about block 2 using IWB is based on picture that show block 2 that has internal weapon bay and also KAI official statement that I posted in first page of this thread that say internal weapon bay will be inserted starting at block 2 or block 3.


----------



## Indos

*COVID-19 delays Korea’s defense exports*

By Kim Byung-wook

Published : May 26, 2020 - 16:57
Updated : May 26, 2020 - 16:57

Defense cuts amid pandemic push back payments for projects, hinder new contracts　

South Korea’s 18-trillion-won ($14 billion) fighter jet project is facing payment delays amidst the COVID-19 pandemic, while officials involved have assured it does not mean it is being shut down.

Korea Aerospace Industries -- the country’s only aircraft manufacturer -- is currently co-developing next-generation fighters with Indonesia.

Launched in 2016, the KF-X project aims to develop a next-generation fighter jet and mass-produce 180 units by 2026. The project, the biggest in Korean history, needs 8 trillion and 10 trillion won for development and mass production, respectively. Indonesia is responsible for 20 percent of the development costs, or 1.8 trillion won. However, it has been delaying its payments lately, with 500.2 billion won overdue as of April.

“Typically, defense contracts between military and defense companies involve collaterals. However, the KF-X project doesn’t include a collateral as it is a co-development project based on a memorandum of understanding, not a defense contract. Indonesia is supposed to pay its share on a yearly basis,” a military official said.

The MOU was signed in 2010 between Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration and the Indonesian military.

As the project lacks a collateral, there is no leverage to force Indonesia to meet the payment deadline. Under the deal, Indonesia will use 50 fighter jets, and Korea the rest.

“KAI is not in a position to comment on the budget status, but the next-generation fighter jet is being developed as planned and will be introduced by 2021,” a company official said.

Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering is another defense company affected by uncertainties from Indonesia.

Though Indonesia placed a purchase order worth $1 billion to DSME for manufacturing three 1,400-ton submarines in April last year, advance payments haven’t arrived yet.

“The Indonesian navy hasn’t paid advance payments yet, but once the payments are completed, it’s almost 100 percent Indonesia will pay the rest of the $1 billion deal as the country’s state-run Bank Mandiri stands surety,” a DSME official said.

http://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200526000847


----------



## Indos

@SgtGungHo 

If the flight test for the first flying prototype show good and satisfying result I believe we dont need to make more prototype that can burden the development cost. The first prototype is needed for structural test and not flying while the second prototype is for flight testing and acquiring production license. At least we can just produce three prototypes for the test and acquiring production certificate just like what Indonesia does with its N 219 program who only has three prototype for testing and all of them posses similar design.


----------



## NEKONEKO

I think its needed to have more than just 3 prototype. Its to address technical problem that may be found on previous prototype.


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> @SgtGungHo
> 
> If the flight test for the first flying prototype show good and satisfying result I believe we dont need to make more prototype that can burden the development cost. The first prototype is needed for structural test and not flying while the second prototype is for flight testing and acquiring production license. At least we can just produce three prototypes for the test and acquiring production certificate just like what Indonesia does with its N 219 program who only has three prototype for testing and all of them posses similar design.



A fighter jet program is different to a military transport aircraft project as a fighter jet is essentially a flying platform that carries weapons and those missiles and bombs need to integrate into a fighter jet. 

Block I of IFX/KFX is still a prototype in this regard. The jet would have only air-to-air combat capabilities and limited air-to-ground capabilities in Block I. KAI and Korean officials have been very clear on this subject. Their plan has been always about flying a functioning fighter jet as soon as possible and testing weapons in later stages.

I think the most challenging part for Indonesia as a Maritime Nation is the fact that integration of AGM-84 Harpoon won't be available until Block II unless Indonesia somehow does it by themselves after getting a source code from Korea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

28 MAY 2020 00:00 GMT+0

*South Korea selects smart bombs, guidance kits for KF-X fighter*

South Korea has completed the selection process for the precision-guided munitions and guidance kits that it plans to integrate with its future Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) multirole fighter aircraft.

South Korean military officials told _Janes_ on 28 May that Raytheon’s GBU-12 Paveway II, Boeing’s GBU-31/38 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM), GBU-54/56 Laser JDAM, and GBU-39/B Small Diameter Bomb1 (SDB1), as well as Textron’s Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser (WCMD) CBU‐105 had all been selected for integration with the KF-X, which is being developed by Korea Aerospace Industries, with PT Dirgantara Indonesia as KAI’s industry partner on the project.

They said the integration process for the smart bombs and guidance kits, all of which are already in service with the Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF), will start later this year, with full integration expected over the coming 6-7 years.





A computer-generated image showing two KF-X fighter aircraft equipped with Meteor BVRAAMs, forward-looking infrared pods, and Joint Direct Attack Munitions.

The move comes after MBDA Missile Systems announced in November 2019 that it had been awarded a contract for the integration of its Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) with the KF-X.

Also set for integration is the IRIS-T short-range air-to-air missile (SRAAM) by Germany’s Diehl Defence, with a contract expected to be signed in the near future.

The aircraft will feature terrain following/terrain avoidance (TF/TA) systems from Israel’s Elbit Systems.

The Haifa-based company announced 6 February that it had been awarded a contract by Hanwha Systems, which itself is working on an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for the fighter, to equip the KF-X with its TF/TA systems under a USD43 million contract that is set to be fulfilled over a six-year period.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/da27bd71-e47e-4cf6-81aa-456bf5824514


----------



## Indos

KFX single engine design by KAI that is rejected. Look like using F 16 design as base design. 






C 103 design with two engine that was developed by ADD Korea and PT Dirgantara Indonesia is then decided to be base of KFX design and later results in C 109 design that become a final design.


----------



## Indos

KFX CGI released by Korea Aerospace Industry (KAI)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos

*GE Aviation delivers first F414 engine for South Korea’s KF-X fighter*


By Garrett Reim

5 June 2020

GE Aviation delivered in May the first F414-400K engine for Korea Aerospace Industries’ (KAI’s) KF-X aircraft, an in-development fifth-generation fighter for the South Korean air force.

Flight tests on the twin-engined KF-X are planned to start in 2023, with the development programme scheduled to be finished in 2026. As part of the development programme, GE is to deliver 15 F414 flight-test engines for six prototype fighters by 2021, the company says.






Source: KAI

KF-X rendering

Seoul wants the KF-X to replace its air force’s ageing McDonnell Douglas F-4D/E Phantom II and Northrop F-5E/F Tiger II fighter fleets. It plans to order 120 examples of the stealth aircraft, with GE supplying 240 production examples of the F414, plus an undisclosed number of spares.

“GE’s F414 engine went into service in 1998 and has flown more than 4.6 million flight hours, with more than 1,750 engines delivered,” says GE. “In addition to the KF-X, the F414 powers Boeing’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler, Saab’s JAS 39E/F Gripen, India’s Tejas Mark 2, and Lockheed Martin and NASA’s X-59 Quiet Supersonic Transport.”

GE also supplies the F404 engine for the KAI T-50 Golden Eagle advanced jet trainer.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-...-for-south-koreas-kf-x-fighter/138698.article

The engine is intended to build first prototype of KFX/IFX that is scheduled to be rolled out in 2021 inshaAllah. As the maiden flight, contrary to what has been written here, it has been planned to happen in 2022 instead of 2023.


----------



## Indos



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

05 June 2020 00:00 GMT+0

*GE Aviation delivers first KF-X engine to Korea*


General Electric (GE) Aviation has delivered to South Korea the first engine for the country’s KF-X indigenous future fighter development.





A full-scale mock-up of the KF-X fighter was revealed by KAI at the ADEX event in Seoul in late 2019. The operational aircraft will be powered by a pair of GE Aviation F414-GE-400K engines.

The US-based powerplant manufacturer announced the milestone on 4 June, noting that the first F414-GE-400K engine was delivered in May.

Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) selected GE Aviation in May 2016 to partner on the KF-X project, with an initial 15 F414-GE-400K engines to be delivered by 2021 to power six testbed aircraft (plus three spares). The Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF) is set to receive 120 KF-X aircraft, for which GE Aviation will provide 240 F414-GE-400K engines plus spares.

The KF-X fighter concept was first revealed by South Korea’s Defence Acquisition Programme Administration (DAPA) in 2010. Indonesia joined the project in 2012, with a memorandum of understanding (MOU) covering joint development of the platform that Jakarta refers to as IF-X.

As budgets have waxed and waned, the project has fluctuated from being a full-up ‘fifth-generation’ fighter into a less sophisticated ‘4.5-generation’ fighter, and back again.* In its latest guise, KF-X will be twin-engined, low observable (LO), multirole combat aircraft equipped with an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar and internal weapons carriage.
*
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/60c0ec7b-6744-4af8-886f-61b96363480d

Something need to be fixed here, Indonesia joined KFX/IFX program in 2010 and the Joint Research Office is set up in Korea since that year.


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> KFX single engine design by KAI that is rejected. Look like using F 16 design as base design.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C 103 design with two engine that was developed by ADD Korea and PT Dirgantara Indonesia is then decided to be base of KFX design and later results in C 109 design that become a final design.



KF-X has always meant to be a single engine design. ROKFA wanted an indigenous fighter aircraft that is only slightly better than F-16 C/D with local avionics, not a full blown 5th gen fighter. Only because of political pressure and national rivalries with surrounding countries, the Korean government decided to go with a twin-engine design.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


>



If you look into the promotional video clip, the fighter aircraft doesn't have a conformal array and both EOTGP and IRST are exposed externally and no SawTooth pattern can be seen on the trailing edges jet engines, which means the aircraft would mostly likely to be a RO (Reduced Obeservable) fighter jet, not a LO (Low Observable) fighter jet. The first block of KF-X/IF-X won't be good as some other fighter jets with full stealth features.

However, this design is far more achievable than some other 'ambitious' 4.5~5th gen fighter jet projects for countries with no or little past experience in building 4.5+ fighter jets.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

SgtGungHo said:


> If you look into the promotional video clip, the fighter aircraft doesn't have a conformal array and both EOTGP and IRST are exposed externally and no SawTooth pattern can be seen on the trailing edges jet engines, which means the aircraft would mostly likely to be a RO (Reduced Obeservable) fighter jet, not a LO (Low Observable) fighter jet. The first block of KF-X/IF-X won't be good as some other fighter jets with full stealth features.
> 
> However, this design is far more achievable than some other 'ambitious' 4.5~5th gen fighter jet projects for countries with no or little past experience in building 4.5+ fighter jets.



Yup, many STEALTH features are compromised in the first block. Since the engine has been delivered, do you think the first prototype will be finished in early 2021, and not in June as in schedule ? There is big possibility IMO that the first prototype will be finished in January-February 2021 inshaAllah.

You also need to look on recent development on JDAM integration news, so there is big chance that the first block will have decent multi role capability. Maybe we will be getting news about another weapon integration some where in this year since we are still in a very early phase of prototyping. Mass production is scheduled to start in 2026 inshaAllah, so there are still 5 years to come. Short range AA missile integration also hasnt been in the form of contract yet despite what kind of missile to be integrated has been quite obvious.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

*Curtiss-Wright Selected by KAI to Provide Complete Data Acquisition System Solution for KF-X*

26 Mei 2020





Axon miniature data acquisition system (photo : Curtiss Weight)

*For Data Acquisition System used in flight tests for the Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) aircraft program*

ASHBURN, Va. – Curtiss-Wright’s Defense Solutions division, a trusted leading supplier of flight test instrumentation (FTI) system solutions, today announced that it was awarded a contract by Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) to provide a complete data acquisition system (DAS) for use in flight-test campaigns for the new 5th generation Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) multirole fighter aircraft. Under the contract, Curtiss-Wright will provide KAI with a complete FTI system that gathers and processes data from the aircraft during test flights.

The fully integrated DAS solution will feature Curtiss-Wright’s next-generation Axon™ miniature data acquisition unit (DAU), the FTI industry’s most compact and high speed DAU. In addition, the DAS will include Curtiss-Wright’s KAM-500™ DAUs, NSW-12GT-1 12-Port Gigabit airborne network switches, TTS-9800-2 tri-band transmitter, nEUP-2000-1 engineering unit processor, ANT-00800T-1 L/S-band antenna, LDP-050-AB-1 airborne-rugged 5-inch diagonal display and GPS-FLR-100-1 active GPS splitter. Shipments, which are expected to begin in August 2020, are scheduled to run through the end of the year.

"We are very proud that our industry-leading integrated data acquisition technology has been selected by Korea Aerospace Industries to support the important 5th generation K-FX fighter jet program, further strengthening our long and successful relationship,” said Lynn Bamford, President, Defense and Power Segments. “Curtiss-Wright uniquely offers the components and expertise needed to provide FTI customers with complete fully integrated FTI system solutions. We are especially pleased, as this contract represents the largest win to date for our industry-leading Axon data acquisition system technology, as well as the first 5th generation fighter jet deployment for Axon.”

Flight-test campaigns are critical to determine that a new aircraft meets design specifications, is functional and safe, and can be certified for use. Such campaigns require significant resources and any delays are very costly, making it critically important that all FTI equipment work reliably to ensure that no unplanned extra flights are needed.

*About the Axon Product Family*

The Axon product family is the most advanced airborne data acquisition system available today, offering low size, weight and power (SWaP) with the best feature set, data acquisition and thermal performance on the market. The Axon product family builds on Curtiss-Wright’s heritage as the leading supplier of rugged reliable data acquisition for aerospace applications.

Axon’s future proof design, using a high-speed serial backplane (1 Gbps dedicated link per module), ensures future high data rates are supported. Its low SWaP design means it can be located in tight spaces and operate reliably without requiring bulky heatsinks. This design also allows any of the Axon family user modules to be placed in ultra-miniature "Axonite" housings and located remotely, separated from the chassis by up to 10 meters. Locating data acquisition closer to the sensors can significantly decrease the installation time and cost of the instrumentation while simultaneously reducing wiring weight. Axonites can also offer significant system cost saving in larger installations by reducing the number of DAUs required in remote locations and thus cutting down on extra chassis, controller and power supply costs.

Curtiss-Wright designed the products covered by this agreement at its Aerospace Instrumentation facilities in Newtown, Pennsylvania and Dublin, Ireland. The products are being shipped to KAI in Sacheon-City, Gyeongnam, Korea.

(Curtiss Wright)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SgtGungHo

*KAI to finalize assembly of next-gen KF-X fighter jet in H2*
By Kim Byung-wook
Published : Jun 10, 2020 - 16:59 Updated : Jun 11, 2020 - 07:22

◀ Back to List
More article by this Writer





KF-X rendering (KAI)


Korea Aerospace Industries said Wednesday it will finalize the assembly of its next-generation KF-X fighter jet in the second half of this year.

South Korea’s sole aircraft manufacturer is currently assembling each of the top, middle and bottom parts of the fuselage of its fifth-generation fighter and the final assembly is scheduled for the second half of the year.

"To introduce a prototype next year, KAI is looking forward to a final assembly of the jet in the period,” a company official said.

“Also, we have received 15 engines from General Electric to power six prototypes, with each requiring two engines. The remaining three are spares.”

KAI selected GE Aviation in May 2016 to supply the F414-GE-400K engines for the KF-X fighter. The multirole KF-X jet, a $7.4 billion project, is being designed and built by KAI.

The KF-X aircraft will replace Korea’s F-4D/E Phantom II and F-5E/F Tiger II fleet. The development program is scheduled to be completed in 2026, while flight testing will occur in 2023. A total of 120 KF-X aircrafts are scheduled for production for the Air Force. GE Aviation will provide 240 F414 engines plus spares.

GE has partnered with Korea many times to power aircrafts in their inventory. GE’s F404 engines currently power the country’s T-50 Golden Eagle, a high-performance supersonic trainer developed with KAI for the Korean Air Force. GE’s T700 turboshaft engines power the Korean utility helicopter Surion. Additionally, GE’s F110 engines power the Air Force’s F-15K aircraft.

By Kim Byung-wook (kbw@heraldcorp.com)

http://khnews.kheraldm.com/view.php?ud=20200610000863

======================================================================

Assembly of first IF-X/KF-X prototype will be finalized by the end of 2020. My concern is that we don't know when would Indonesian engineers who left Korea because of pandemic return to Korea. It is still uncertain if Indonesia is fully committed to the project. According to GE, the company already delivered the first F414 engine to KAI in May. This article claims that 15 engines for prototypes have already delivered, but it is incorrect as Korea won't receive all engines for prototypes until the end of next year.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

SgtGungHo said:


> *KAI to finalize assembly of next-gen KF-X fighter jet in H2*
> By Kim Byung-wook
> Published : Jun 10, 2020 - 16:59 Updated : Jun 11, 2020 - 07:22
> 
> ◀ Back to List
> More article by this Writer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KF-X rendering (KAI)
> 
> 
> Korea Aerospace Industries said Wednesday it will finalize the assembly of its next-generation KF-X fighter jet in the second half of this year.
> 
> South Korea’s sole aircraft manufacturer is currently assembling each of the top, middle and bottom parts of the fuselage of its fifth-generation fighter and the final assembly is scheduled for the second half of the year.
> 
> "To introduce a prototype next year, KAI is looking forward to a final assembly of the jet in the period,” a company official said.
> 
> “Also, we have received 15 engines from General Electric to power six prototypes, with each requiring two engines. The remaining three are spares.”
> 
> KAI selected GE Aviation in May 2016 to supply the F414-GE-400K engines for the KF-X fighter. The multirole KF-X jet, a $7.4 billion project, is being designed and built by KAI.
> 
> The KF-X aircraft will replace Korea’s F-4D/E Phantom II and F-5E/F Tiger II fleet. The development program is scheduled to be completed in 2026, while flight testing will occur in 2023. A total of 120 KF-X aircrafts are scheduled for production for the Air Force. GE Aviation will provide 240 F414 engines plus spares.
> 
> GE has partnered with Korea many times to power aircrafts in their inventory. GE’s F404 engines currently power the country’s T-50 Golden Eagle, a high-performance supersonic trainer developed with KAI for the Korean Air Force. GE’s T700 turboshaft engines power the Korean utility helicopter Surion. Additionally, GE’s F110 engines power the Air Force’s F-15K aircraft.
> 
> By Kim Byung-wook (kbw@heraldcorp.com)
> 
> http://khnews.kheraldm.com/view.php?ud=20200610000863
> 
> ======================================================================
> 
> Assembly of first IF-X/KF-X prototype will be finalized by the end of 2020. My concern is that we don't know when would Indonesian engineers who left Korea because of pandemic return to Korea. It is still uncertain if Indonesia is fully committed to the project. According to GE, the company already delivered the first F414 engine to KAI in May. This article claims that 15 engines for prototypes have already delivered, but it is incorrect as Korea won't receive all engines for prototypes until the end of next year.



Thanks for the article, it is a good news. There is no hint whatsoever about what is going on in the renegotiation process. There is no reporter who asked this question to our Minister of Defense so far and no news coming from government as well until now regarding this project.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

SgtGungHo said:


> *KAI to finalize assembly of next-gen KF-X fighter jet in H2*
> By Kim Byung-wook
> Published : Jun 10, 2020 - 16:59 Updated : Jun 11, 2020 - 07:22
> 
> ◀ Back to List
> More article by this Writer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KF-X rendering (KAI)
> 
> 
> Korea Aerospace Industries said Wednesday it will finalize the assembly of its next-generation KF-X fighter jet in the second half of this year.
> 
> South Korea’s sole aircraft manufacturer is currently assembling each of the top, middle and bottom parts of the fuselage of its fifth-generation fighter and the final assembly is scheduled for the second half of the year.
> 
> "To introduce a prototype next year, KAI is looking forward to a final assembly of the jet in the period,” a company official said.
> 
> “Also, we have received 15 engines from General Electric to power six prototypes, with each requiring two engines. The remaining three are spares.”
> 
> KAI selected GE Aviation in May 2016 to supply the F414-GE-400K engines for the KF-X fighter. The multirole KF-X jet, a $7.4 billion project, is being designed and built by KAI.
> 
> The KF-X aircraft will replace Korea’s F-4D/E Phantom II and F-5E/F Tiger II fleet. The development program is scheduled to be completed in 2026, while flight testing will occur in 2023. A total of 120 KF-X aircrafts are scheduled for production for the Air Force. GE Aviation will provide 240 F414 engines plus spares.
> 
> GE has partnered with Korea many times to power aircrafts in their inventory. GE’s F404 engines currently power the country’s T-50 Golden Eagle, a high-performance supersonic trainer developed with KAI for the Korean Air Force. GE’s T700 turboshaft engines power the Korean utility helicopter Surion. Additionally, GE’s F110 engines power the Air Force’s F-15K aircraft.
> 
> By Kim Byung-wook (kbw@heraldcorp.com)
> 
> http://khnews.kheraldm.com/view.php?ud=20200610000863
> 
> ======================================================================
> 
> Assembly of first IF-X/KF-X prototype will be finalized by the end of 2020. My concern is that we don't know when would Indonesian engineers who left Korea because of pandemic return to Korea. It is still uncertain if Indonesia is fully committed to the project. According to GE, the company already delivered the first F414 engine to KAI in May. This article claims that 15 engines for prototypes have already delivered, but it is incorrect as Korea won't receive all engines for prototypes until the end of next year.



When you made first T50 plane prototype, did some one leak the picture of unfinished prototype ? I think Korean need to do that with KFX / IFX program so that more Indonesian public support can be taken that later hopefully can effect our decision maker to have more favorable view on the program. Indonesian member on this PDF are not representative of Indonesian people.

Lately I see favorable view from Indonesian regarding the program that can be checked from Youtube channel talking about the KFX/IFX program. The tone of the Youtuber are also positive after the project show good progress

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

30 June 2020

*South Korea to develop supersonic ASM for future KF-X fighter aircraft*
by Gabriel Dominguez

South Korea is planning to develop a new supersonic air-to-surface missile (ASM) that is expected to be carried by the Republic of Korea Air Force’s (RoKAF’s) future Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) multirole fighter aircraft.

A Joint Chief of Staff (JCS) official told _Janes_ on 30 June that the weapon is expected to fly at speeds in excess of Mach 2.5, weigh less than 3,000 lb (1.36 tonnes) and have a range of at least 250 km.

No further details were provided about the ASM.

The revelation comes after _Janes_ reported on 28 May that South Korea had recently completed the selection process for the precision-guided munitions and guidance kits it plans to integrate with the KF-X, which is being developed by Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI), with PT Dirgantara Indonesia as KAI’s industry partner on the project.

South Korean military officials told _Janes_ on 28 May that Raytheon’s GBU-12 Paveway II, Boeing’s GBU-31/38 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM), GBU-54/56 Laser JDAM, and GBU-39/B Small Diameter Bomb1 (SDB1), as well as Textron’s Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser (WCMD) CBU-105 had all been selected for integration with the KF-X.

They said the integration process for the smart bombs and guidance kits, all of which are already in service with the RoKAF, would start later this year, with full integration expected over the coming six to seven years.

The move comes after MBDA Missile Systems announced in November 2019 that it had been awarded a contract for the integration of its Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) with the KF-X.

Also set for integration is the IRIS-T short-range air-to-air missile (SRAAM) by Germany’s Diehl Defence, with a contract expected to be signed in the near future.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...personic-asm-for-future-kf-x-fighter-aircraft


----------



## Deino

News on the KFX ... unfortunately I don't understand what it says but the prototype seems to take shape.

(via stealthflanker / SecretProjectsForum)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos

Deino said:


> News on the KFX ... unfortunately I don't understand what it says but the prototype seems to take shape.
> 
> (via stealthflanker / SecretProjectsForum)
> 
> View attachment 648370



@SgtGungHo 

Can you please translate this Korean language ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Indos

KF-X's AESA radar has completed development!






- Agency for Defense Development and Hanwha Systems have finished development of AESA radar for the KF-X Korean Fighter Program.
- First radar will be publicly unveiled on August 12th at an official event.
- This radar has over 1,000 TR modules.
- This radar passed Critical Design Review (CDR) in September 26, 2019 and has been undergoing aerial testing since.
- US Congress refused technology transfer which was among the "4 critical technology" (AESA radar, EO TGP / IRST / RF Jammer) promised by Lockheed Martin with the purchase of F-35A Lightning II.
- South Korea independently developed the radar and Israeli ELTA Systems assisted in aerial testing. The prototype radar was said to be very positively received by Israeli personnel.
- This radar will undergo further testing aboard prototype KF-X aircraft, which will be rolled out next year.
KF-X용 AESA 레이더 개발이 완료되었다는 소식입니다!

http://biz.heraldcorp.com/view.php?ud=20200702000174

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dr.knowhow

Indos said:


> @SgtGungHo
> 
> Can you please translate this Korean language ?



I'm not SgtGungHo but could do the job.

"On 23rd of April participants and authorities of KF-X program gathered to celebrate the beginning of the integration of the front, middle and the rear structure of the fuselage. Thanks to hard work of all parties, the production of the first aircraft is on its final stage. Those who gathered in the celebration were quite impressed of the realization of the aircraft and its sheer size, which they were only able to see as a CATIA model before. The punctuality of the process and KAI's high level of technology has added up to the positive impression. Everyone are motivated and eager to realize the roll out of the prototype by April next year."

Its published in KAI's own magazine so obviously they're praising themselves and are trying to motivate other employees. Though sure, rightly so, that the aircraft production is on track without any delays as of now. It's 4.5 gen for a reason.



Apart from this recent development of the program, on last year's 'Defense Technology Survey' it has been published which technologies are need to develop a 5th gen KF-X blk.3 and VLO surveilance UAV. I'm quite busy so I couldn't post all the details but it seems that quite a lot of those basic technologies needed to develop block 3 is already being researched. Not all the technologies that are mentioned to be applied in block 3 are stated on the paper, although it gives a good insight of a bigger picture.

Block 2 is going to be developed by 2028 and although there is currently no official plan from the ROKAF of developing block 3, I suspect that its not gonna take much time for the development to commence, hence the fact that ROKAF is planning to begin retiring its Viper fleets by late 2030s. Considering the development timeline of the Super Hornet which is kind of a similar concept to what KF-X is, developing a pre-existing fighter jet into a more capable one, its gonna take a few years. So if they officially begin with block 3 by, say 2030, it's going to be able to get introduced in the air force by the time those Vipers retire.



Indos said:


> KF-X's AESA radar has completed development!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Agency for Defense Development and Hanwha Systems have finished development of AESA radar for the KF-X Korean Fighter Program.
> - First radar will be publicly unveiled on August 12th at an official event.
> - This radar has over 1,000 TR modules.
> - This radar passed Critical Design Review (CDR) in September 26, 2019 and has been undergoing aerial testing since.
> - US Congress refused technology transfer which was among the "4 critical technology" (AESA radar, EO TGP / IRST / RF Jammer) promised by Lockheed Martin with the purchase of F-35A Lightning II.
> - South Korea independently developed the radar and Israeli ELTA Systems assisted in aerial testing. The prototype radar was said to be very positively received by Israeli personnel.
> - This radar will undergo further testing aboard prototype KF-X aircraft, which will be rolled out next year.
> KF-X용 AESA 레이더 개발이 완료되었다는 소식입니다!
> 
> http://biz.heraldcorp.com/view.php?ud=20200702000174



BTW, there's another AESA radar which is from LIG nex1, yes, those guys who were in charge of the AESA radar development in the past. After losing to Hanwha in the bid, they went on with their own design and developed a more modern tile-type TR modules with their own funding but less refined as a product. It's called "LASER". LIG's Advanced Scalable E-scan Radar. Defense industry using backronyms might be getting out of hand I guess.... Some could think otherwise tho. 

Due to the fact that it has a bit more advanced tile-type TRM design, it has a slightly higher transistor density, thus having 1104 TRM compared to 1088 TRM in Hanwha's radar. It's also about 10 grams lighter than the TRM used in Hanwha. Just like how there were two radars competing for F-16V block70/72 variant, the Raytheon RACR and Northrop Grumman SABR, of which SABR became the official F-16V radar and Raytheon continued the development of RACR without government funding to sell it in international market, the situation is quite similar here. Hanwha's official KF-X radar would therefore be the SABR equivalent and LIG's being the RACR equivalent.

I'm not really sure tho if LIG would be able to sell it anywhere else outside Korea. It might end up just like RACR with no one choosing to buy one. On the other hand, its a scalable radar so they might be able to market it to FA-50 operators in Asia and to the ROKAF if they could fill a cheaper bid than Hanwha.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Indos

dr.knowhow said:


> I'm not SgtGungHo but could do the job.
> 
> "On 23rd of April participants and authorities of KF-X program gathered to celebrate the beginning of the integration of the front, middle and the rear structure of the fuselage. Thanks to hard work of all parties, the production of the first aircraft is on its final stage. Those who gathered in the celebration were quite impressed of the realization of the aircraft and its sheer size, which they were only able to see as a CATIA model before. The punctuality of the process and KAI's high level of technology has added up to the positive impression. Everyone are motivated and eager to realize the roll out of the prototype by April next year."
> 
> Its published in KAI's own magazine so obviously they're praising themselves and are trying to motivate other employees. Though sure, rightly so, that the aircraft production is on track without any delays as of now. It's 4.5 gen for a reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Apart from this recent development of the program, on last year's 'Defense Technology Survey' it has been published which technologies are need to develop a 5th gen KF-X blk.3 and VLO surveilance UAV. I'm quite busy so I couldn't post all the details but it seems that quite a lot of those basic technologies needed to develop block 3 is already being researched. Not all the technologies that are mentioned to be applied in block 3 are stated on the paper, although it gives a good insight of a bigger picture.
> 
> Block 2 is going to be developed by 2028 and although there is currently no official plan from the ROKAF of developing block 3, I suspect that its not gonna take much time for the development to commence, hence the fact that ROKAF is planning to begin retiring its Viper fleets by late 2030s. Considering the development timeline of the Super Hornet which is kind of a similar concept to what KF-X is, developing a pre-existing fighter jet into a more capable one, its gonna take a few years. So if they officially begin with block 3 by, say 2030, it's going to be able to get introduced in the air force by the time those Vipers retire.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, there's another AESA radar which is from LIG nex1, yes, those guys who were in charge of the AESA radar development in the past. After losing to Hanwha in the bid, they went on with their own design and developed a more modern tile-type TR modules with their own funding but less refined as a product. It's called "LASER". LIG's Advanced Scalable E-scan Radar. Defense industry using backronyms might be getting out of hand I guess.... Some could think otherwise tho.
> 
> Due to the fact that it has a bit more advanced tile-type TRM design, it has a slightly higher transistor density, thus having 1104 TRM compared to 1088 TRM in Hanwha's radar. It's also about 10 grams lighter than the TRM used in Hanwha. Just like how there were two radars competing for F-16V block70/72 variant, the Raytheon RACR and Northrop Grumman SABR, of which SABR became the official F-16V radar and Raytheon continued the development of RACR without government funding to sell it in international market, the situation is quite similar here. Hanwha's official KF-X radar would therefore be the SABR equivalent and LIG's being the RACR equivalent.
> 
> I'm not really sure tho if LIG would be able to sell it anywhere else outside Korea. It might end up just like RACR with no one choosing to buy one. On the other hand, its a scalable radar so they might be able to market it to FA-50 operators in Asia and to the ROKAF if they could fill a cheaper bid than Hanwha.



Thank you for the translation and explanation, well it is nice to see another Korean here.....

I have sent the picture to one of CNN Indonesia producer, so lets see if they start making any report on it, and hopefully ask something about the project to Minister of Defense to know the renegotiation progress.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280162730155139074

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280162730155139074



Nice, this picture is much clearer.......

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NEKONEKO

*KAI plans to roll out first KF-X prototype in April 2021*

South Korean aerospace and defence company Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) has revealed that it plans to roll out the first prototype of its Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) multirole fighter aircraft in April 2021.

In the latest edition of its monthly _Fly Together _magazine the company released an image showing the prototype’s fuselage, which was assembled at KAI’s facilities in Sacheon. No further details were provided about the programme but _Janes_ understands that the prototype is expected to conduct its first flight in 2022.





An image showing the fuselage of the first KF-X prototype at KAI’s assembly facility in Sacheon. The company has revealed that it plans to roll out the first protype aircraft in April 2021. (KAI)

The performance of the KF-X, which is on order for the Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF), is expected to improve with each ‘Block’, with the development programme envisaging the production of six Block 0 prototypes, followed by four years of trials and the completion of development by mid-2026.

The first mass-produced KF-X aircraft, which will be part of Block 1, are expected between 2026 and 2028. They will be equipped with limited air-to-ground weapons in addition to air-to-air weapons.

On the other hand the Block 2 KF-Xs, which will be series-produced from 2029, will be capable of performing full air-to-air and air-to-ground combat missions.

Meanwhile, officials from South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) told _Janes_ on 6 July that the country’s Agency for Defense Development (ADD), in co-operation with Hanwha Systems, is expecting to complete development of an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for the KF-X by mid-August.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...o-roll-out-first-kf-x-prototype-in-april-2021

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

@dr.knowhow 

What do you think about F414 GE engine that will be produced by Hanwa under license. How many percentage that will become Korean local content according to you ?


----------



## dr.knowhow

Indos said:


> @dr.knowhow
> 
> What do you think about F414 GE engine that will be produced by Hanwa under license. How many percentage that will become Korean local content according to you ?



Not my own thoughts but according to flighglobal and other Korean sources, first its gonna be around 30~40%, domestically prdocued LPT module and Fan section, then later on up to 50~60% including some components of HPT.

Some of those components will also be exported, so whenever someone buys F414 there will be few Korean HPT components in there.




Ah btw the photo of the middle section of the fuselage has been made public. The space for internal weapons bay is clearly visible. Just need additional development for the real IWB and the accomodation of BVRAAM, SRAAM, JDAM, KGGB and SDB.

Hope the block 3 follows up soon enough after block 2 is finished on 2028. ROKAF needs to replace KF-16 by the mid-late 2030s like I've said before, so it probably would commence soon enough.

Given that the fuselage already has spaces to accomodate weapons bay and various other sensors internally, plus we have been researching conformal antennas for IFF and EW suite quite a long time (currently both are protruded and only the coms antenna is confromal, supplied by Cobham), my guess is that the block 2 aircrafts would also be able to be upgraded to block 3 standard or something near block 3 during the mid-service upgrade which would probably happen around late 2030s.


I might be able to post the picture of the fuselage mid-section later on.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

dr.knowhow said:


> Not my own thoughts but according to flighglobal and other Korean sources, first its gonna be around 30~40%, domestically prdocued LPT module and Fan section, then later on up to 50~60% including some components of HPT.
> 
> Some of those components will also be exported, so whenever someone buys F414 there will be few Korean HPT components in there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah btw the photo of the middle section of the fuselage has been made public. The space for internal weapons bay is clearly visible. Just need additional development for the real IWB and the accomodation of BVRAAM, SRAAM, JDAM, KGGB and SDB.
> 
> Hope the block 3 follows up soon enough after block 2 is finished on 2028. ROKAF needs to replace KF-16 by the mid-late 2030s like I've said before, so it probably would commence soon enough.
> 
> Given that the fuselage already has spaces to accomodate weapons bay and various other sensors internally, plus we have been researching conformal antennas for IFF and EW suite quite a long time (currently both are protruded and only the coms antenna is confromal, supplied by Cobham), my guess is that the block 2 aircrafts would also be able to be upgraded to block 3 standard or something near block 3 during the mid-service upgrade which would probably happen around late 2030s.
> 
> 
> I might be able to post the picture of the fuselage mid-section later on.



Thanks for the explanation. Yup, I hope you can post the picture in here as well. According to Jane Defense, the research and development of Block 2 will be started in 2021. They got the information from KAI official, most probably ADD Korea (I forgot).

The picture of KFX/IFX fuselage construction has been circulated in Indonesian publication, including Youtube channel. I hope KAI keep delivering the prototype photos update. Quite good effort to raise Indonesian public support on the program that later will hopefully affect Indonesian government decision on the program.


----------



## Indos

16 July 2020

*KF-X project on track but concerns grow about Indonesian involvement*
by Jon Grevatt

Technicians from Indonesian aerospace firm PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) will soon be rejoining counterparts from Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) to undertake work on developing the Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) multirole fighter aircraft, _Janes_ has learnt.

PTDI technicians on the KF-X project – known as KF-X/IF-X in Indonesia – returned to Indonesia from South Korea in March when the Covid-19 epidemic was at its peak in the Northeast Asian country. An industry source has confirmed to _Janes_ that these technicians are now “currently preparing to redeploy”.





An artist’s impression of the KF-X fighter aircraft. The first KF-X prototype is scheduled to be rolled out in April 2021. (DAPA)

_Janes_ understands that at the end of 2019 the total number of PTDI technicians on the KF-X project in South Korea was about 100, with their work mainly focused on aircraft design and manufacturing processes. Their redeployment will be framed against requirements for social distancing and other Covid-19-related guidelines.

The move to re-engage PTDI technicians on the project comes against a background of progress on the development of KF-X prototypes but also continuing delays in efforts to reach a compromise on the scope of Indonesian financial participation in the programme. Another factor that could have an impact on Indonesia’s involvement are some concerns in Jakarta about the strategic value of its involvement.

KAI has confirmed that assembly of the first KF-X prototype is scheduled to be finalised in the second half of 2020, with a view to rolling out the aircraft in April 2021. The schedules confirm that the KF-X programme has not been affected by Covid-19 and is on track to start mass production in the mid-2020s.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...ut-concerns-grow-about-indonesian-involvement


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> 16 July 2020
> 
> *KF-X project on track but concerns grow about Indonesian involvement*
> by Jon Grevatt
> 
> Technicians from Indonesian aerospace firm PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) will soon be rejoining counterparts from Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) to undertake work on developing the Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) multirole fighter aircraft, _Janes_ has learnt.
> 
> PTDI technicians on the KF-X project – known as KF-X/IF-X in Indonesia – returned to Indonesia from South Korea in March when the Covid-19 epidemic was at its peak in the Northeast Asian country. An industry source has confirmed to _Janes_ that these technicians are now “currently preparing to redeploy”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An artist’s impression of the KF-X fighter aircraft. The first KF-X prototype is scheduled to be rolled out in April 2021. (DAPA)
> 
> _Janes_ understands that at the end of 2019 the total number of PTDI technicians on the KF-X project in South Korea was about 100, with their work mainly focused on aircraft design and manufacturing processes. Their redeployment will be framed against requirements for social distancing and other Covid-19-related guidelines.
> 
> The move to re-engage PTDI technicians on the project comes against a background of progress on the development of KF-X prototypes but also continuing delays in efforts to reach a compromise on the scope of Indonesian financial participation in the programme. Another factor that could have an impact on Indonesia’s involvement are some concerns in Jakarta about the strategic value of its involvement.
> 
> KAI has confirmed that assembly of the first KF-X prototype is scheduled to be finalised in the second half of 2020, with a view to rolling out the aircraft in April 2021. The schedules confirm that the KF-X programme has not been affected by Covid-19 and is on track to start mass production in the mid-2020s.
> 
> https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...ut-concerns-grow-about-indonesian-involvement



This shouldn't be called a compromise. Indonesia is basically asking additional concessions from Korea with nothing in return when Jakarta has not even decided whether it is worth to persue the development. Korea has already proved that she can just advance the program without Indonesia's input. Parts of the 6th prototype for Indonesia will be ready by the next year. I doubt that Indoneisa is paying the money as the country is burdened with too many projects at the moment. With this and Jakarta of considering to cancel submarine orders from Republic of Korea will sour the relationship between Indonesia and Korea.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

SgtGungHo said:


> This shouldn't be called a compromise. Indonesia is basically asking additional concessions from Korea with nothing in return when Jakarta has not even decided whether it is worth to persue the development. Korea has already proved that she can just advance the program without Indonesia's input. Parts of the 6th prototype for Indonesia will be ready by the next year. I doubt that Indoneisa is paying the money as the country is burdened with too many projects at the moment. With this and Jakarta of considering to cancel submarine orders from Republic of Korea will sour the relationship between Indonesia and Korea.



Around 100 Indonesian engineers left KAI in March due to Covid 19 issue and will get back to KAI soon according to official cited by Jane Defense. So there are only about 4 months without Indonesian participation (and critical design has been completed before the departure) although I believe Korea can manufacture and develop KFX alone if Indonesia stop their involvement in the project.

Talking about the money. We still have big defense budget around 9 billion dollar a year. Next year budget which is actually a bit bigger than this year has already got a support from our Finance Ministry where she also stress the importance of R&D budget inside our Defense budget.

I dont think there will be any problem relating to our financial contribution if we see Indonesia defense budget, inshaAllah. I am just worried about Jokowi political will in the program. Maybe there is some strong person behind lack of Jokowi ambition on the program. Person like Luhut Panjaitan (minister) and Moeldoko (Head of Presidential staff) might be the people that can be blamed for that, as those persons are very influential regarding to Jokowi personal opinion in many matters.

There is hint that Indonesia will pay its financial contribution again in KFX/IFX program as our new Defense Minister said joint development program is among the priority program that will be supported by 2020 defense budget.

There is also hint from latest twit of our defense minister, Prabowo, that R&D will be one of the program that he will prioritize.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1282293160756998148
Google Translate.

The Ministry of Defense will continue to support efforts to increase domestic defense equipment production, as well as support research and development programs, so that later all domestic production can be fully independent.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

@SgtGungHo 

You need to understand that our parliament members dealing with defense matters are quite supportive with KFX/IFX program. Previous administration who started the program with Korea and they become the opponent of Jokowi administration during the last 2 elections. That coalition has better chance to win the next election in 2024 as Jokowi final term finishes, latest pool suggest.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dr.knowhow

KAI released the video of the manufacturing process of the first prototype.

Skip to 0:12 for the actual footage.

That thing labelled FASS featured from 0:12 to 0:15 is the laser guided assembly demonstrator. FSAS is the name of the technique
0:16 to 0:18 is front fuselage assembly.
0:19 to 0:24 is main wing and middle fuselage assembly.
Bulkhead shown in 0:25 is the rear fuselage bulkhead, shown for the first time.


PS. Guys please don't feed the troll and leave him be. They have their passion in spitting rubbish and gibberish and it's pointless to talk with them.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos

Talking about Indonesia financial capability in supporting KFX/IFX program.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24 June 2020
*Covid-19: Indonesia signals potential major increase in defence spending*
by Andrew MacDonald

Indonesia has proposed a strong increase in defence spending for 2021, with procurement identified as a priority. The country’s modernisation targets include the acquisition of the Harimau medium tank (pictured) developed by PT Pindad and FNSS. (FNSS)

Indonesia could be in line for a record-high expenditure of nearly IDR150 trillion (USD10.6 billion) for fiscal year 2021 if recently submitted budgetary proposals are approved by parliament later this year.

The proposed expenditure suggests the Southeast Asian country might be in a more robust position to respond to the Covid-19 pandemic than was previously thought.





Indonesia has proposed a strong increase in defence spending for 2021, with procurement identified as a priority. The country’s modernisation targets include the acquisition of the Harimau medium tank (pictured) developed by PT Pindad and FNSS. (FNSS)

The Ministry of Finance (MoF) said in a fiscal policy report recently presented to parliament that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has indicated a ceiling requirement of IDR129.3 trillion for 2021.

The MoD also said in information presented in a meeting with the House of Representative’s defence commission that additional funding of IDR19 trillion is required to support a range of initiatives including military procurement.

If approved, the proposals would provide the MoD with IDR148.3 trillion for 2021. This would represent an increase of IDR25.9 trillion – or 21% – over the revised allocation of IDR122.4 trillion for 2020. The original 2020 appropriation was IDR131.2 trillion but this was cut through a presidential regulation issued in April in response to the impact of Covid-19.

According to the MoF fiscal policy report, funding priorities for the MoD in 2021 include the procurement of munitions, armoured vehicles, and naval vessels, and the support and replacement of military aircraft. In addition, funding is required to complete “projects and activity” that were postponed due to budgetary restrictions imposed in the wake of Covid-19, it said.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...-potential-major-increase-in-defence-spending


----------



## Indos

As far as I know, Indonesia parliament supported KFX/IFX program, and it include parliament member from Jokowi party himself.

Google Translate

CNN Indonesia | Thursday, 23/07/2020

*Parliament Asks Prabowo to Pay Off South Korean KFX Than Austrian Typhoon*

Jakarta, CNN Indonesia -




Member of DPR NasDem Party Faction Muhammad Farhan joined the inauguration of the House of Representatives (DPR) for the 2019-2024 period in the Plenary Meeting Room, Parliament Complex, Senayan, Jakarta, Tuesday, October 1, 2019. DPR Commission I Member Muhammad Farhan Photo: CNN Indonesia / Adhi Wicaksono

House of Representatives Commission I member Muhammad Farhan suggested Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto pay off the KFX / IFX fighter cooperation project with South Korea instead of buying 15 used Eurofighter Typhoon fighter planes from Austria.

Farhan said the cooperation project with South Korea was indeed expensive. But it will have a positive impact on the development of Indonesia's defense industry in the long run.

"Although it is bitter that we must pay almost US $ 2 billion, but we can get the technology, the opportunity to develop its people," Farhan said when contacted by CNNIndonesia.com, Thursday (7/23).

See also: Commission I Call Prabowo Violated the Law If You Buy a Used Jet Typhoon

Quoted from Antara, since 2009 Indonesia and South Korea are exploring the development of KFX / IFX. The total investment value agreed by the two countries reached US $ 8 billion or Rp121.35 trillion.

The financing scheme is 60 percent borne by the South Korean State Budget, 20 percent by KAI companies from South Korea, and the remaining 20 percent from the Indonesian State Budget.

The development of KFX / IFX will be divided into three stages, namely the development of technology or concepts, the development of manufacturing engineering or prototypes, then the mass production process. The target, the first prototype can be completed in 2021.

Indonesia and South Korea are targeting the production of 168 KFX / IFX aircraft. Later 120 units will be owned by South Korea, while 48 other units will be owned by Indonesia.
See also: Prabowo's Plan to Buy 15 Austrian Typhoon Triggers Protests

Farhan said that Indonesia had paid US $ 250 million to start the project. He advised Prabowo to focus the budget on the project rather than buying used Austrian aircraft.

"Don't let it break (the contract). This is a difficult decision whose benefits we can feel in the next 5-10 years and can be the basis for us to map the road map towards the minimum essential force," he said.

Previously, Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto reportedly would buy up 15 used Eurofighter Typhoon fighter planes from Australia. It was known from the letter numbered 60 / M / VII / 2020 and dated July 10, 2020 was given the subject of 'Proposal About Eurofughter Typhoon Aircraft'.

"In order to modernize the Indonesian Air Force (Indonesian Air Force), I want to hold formal negotiations with you to buy 15 Eurofighter for the Republic of Indonesia," Prabowo said as stated in the English-language letter quoted Wednesday (7/22).
(dhf / gil)

https://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasion...o-lunasi-kfx-korsel-ketimbang-typhoon-austria


----------



## Indos

@The Eagle 

Brother, can you please make this KFX/IFX thread as sticky since it is quite an importance project in Asia and is related with both Far East nations which are South Korea and Indonesia..............

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Eagle

Indos said:


> @The Eagle
> 
> Brother, can you please make this KFX/IFX thread as sticky since it is quite an importance project in Asia and is related with both Far East nations which are South Korea and Indonesia..............



Done brother. It should be sticky.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos

The Eagle said:


> Done brother. It should be sticky.



Thank You


----------



## Indos

KFX/IFX model is also tested in Indonesia wind tunnel test facility which has 30 years of experience in testing aircraft. If we do close look, it look like C 103 design that become a base of final design of C 109.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Indos

originally posted by @LKJ86


----------



## Whizzack

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/air-warfare/kf-x-prototype-assembly-continues-apace/

*AIR WARFARE*
*KF-X prototype assembly continues apace*
28th July 2020 - 01:43 GMT | by Gordon Arthur in Christchurch

KAI said in June that it would finalise assembly of the first prototype by the end of this year. Seoul plans to eventually produce around 120 of these aircraft for the Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF).

The first fighter could roll out as early as next April. Its first flight is scheduled for 2022 with further development and testing continuing until 2026, by when the Block 1 variant will be considered ready for full production.

This is the second fighter programme for KAI after the FA-50 light fighter. The ROKAF needs the platform to replace ageing F-4 Phantom II and F-5E/F Tiger II fighters that continue to soldier on in service (see table below). 

The $7.4 billion KF-X project kicked off in January 2016, and the design was unveiled on 29 June 2018 after the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) completed a preliminary design review immediately prior to that.

DAPA reported last September that the critical design review had been completed, paving the way for construction of the first prototype to commence.

South Korea has already selected precision-guided munitions and guidance kits to be used aboard the KF-X. These are the Raytheon GBU-12 Paveway II, Boeing GBU-31/38 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM), GBU-54/56 Laser JDAM, GBU-39/B Small Diameter Bomb 1 and Textron Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser CBU‐105. 

The integration process of these weapons, expected to take six to seven years, will start later this year.

MBDA declared last November that its Meteor beyond-visual-range AAM had been awarded a contract for integration on the KF-X. The Diehl IRIS-T short-range AAM is also set to be added.

South Korea is also developing a supersonic air-to-surface missile suitable for the KF-X. Its speed will be around Mach 2.5, have a range of at least 250km and weigh less than 1.36t.

The US refused to transfer four critical technologies to South Korea for its fighter programme, namely the AESA radar, EO targeting pods, IR search and track system and RF jammer, despite these being promised by Lockheed Martin when Seoul signed up for the F-35A.

Consequently, avionics on the KF-X are primarily indigenous. Assisted by IAI Elta, Hanwha Systems is responsible for the AESA radar, and it announced within the past month that the radar’s development was complete. The first prototype is expected to be unveiled on 12 August. The radar passed a critical design review on 26 September 2019, and it has since been conducting aerial testing.

For the radar, Israel’s Elbit Systems is providing the terrain following/terrain avoidance system, with a $43 million contract announced in February.

In May, General Electric delivered the first F414-GE-400K turbofan engines to South Korea. The engine manufacturer will deliver 15 engines for six prototype fighters by 2021. In all, Hanwha Techwin will licence-produce the remainder of 240 of these GE engines. The KF-X will also utilise Martin-Baker Mk18 ejection seats.

Indonesia has a 20% investment share in the KF-X programme, although Jakarta’s payments were well in arrears to the tune of $415 million by April. Approximately 100 engineers from PT Dirgantara Indonesia have been cooperating with KAI; they will shortly return to South Korea after they temporarily departed in March due to the growing COVID-19 crisis.

The future fighter fleet of the ROKAF will therefore comprise the single-engine FA-50, F-16 and F-35A, plus the twin-engine KF-X and F-15K.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

@SgtGungHo @dr.knowhow

From what I read, Jokowi administration feel reluctant to have 20 % of KFX/IFX financial contribution. The reluctancy is still seen from February official statement, but IMO it doesnt mean Indonesia will leave the program as the administration only want to reduce the financial contribution into 15 %.

I also think Indonesia want to get some TOT of subsystems being developed using KFX/IFX development cost.

Latest statement from Defense Minister Deputy (July), he said Indonesia will fully support the program and pay 20 % financial contribution if it gets "sufficient" benefit from the program. The benefit that he mean is more on access of 9 critical technology of the plane.


----------



## dr.knowhow

Indos said:


> @SgtGungHo @dr.knowhow
> 
> From what I read, Jokowi administration feel reluctant to have 20 % of KFX/IFX financial contribution. The reluctancy is still seen from February official statement, but IMO it doesnt mean Indonesia will leave the program as the administration only want to reduce the financial contribution into 15 %.
> 
> I also think Indonesia want to get some TOT of subsystems being developed using KFX/IFX development cost.
> 
> Latest statement from Defense Minister Deputy (July), he said Indonesia will fully support the program and pay 20 % financial contribution if it gets "sufficient" benefit from the program. The benefit that he mean is more on access of 9 critical technology of the plane.



Thanks for the info. You are giving quite some insight about how things are going on in Indonesia that I'm grateful of.

Unfortunately for those who want the transfer of critical technologies, there are already a fixed list of transferable technologies developed via KF-X/IF-X program.

So it really comes down to what thoes 9 technologies are. I highly doubt that techs like flight control techniques or AESA, sensor fusion related stuff etc would be able to be transfered to any foreign country.

For instance the development of AESA for fighter jet has already been under works since 2006 and was followed by series of development programs. Same applies to other core avionics technologies involved in the KF-X program. All of them were developed without ToT from the outside.

(side note : Unlike what is widely known outside of Korea the request for the transfer of 4 critical technologies denied by the US was more of a "good if it works, if not no problem" kind of a call. Like I've said, a lot of the avionics being integrated into the KF-X has been on development for a long time and ADD and ETRI was quite confident qbout it.)

If we take a look on other foreign involvements apart from LM's TAC role in the program, Saab was on the advisory role for the development of the radar and Elta has helped us with testing of the AESA hardware. Non of those foreign involvments had transfer of technology.

Then there is Leonardo who's going to supply the hardware of the IRST but no software, so Korea had to develop that on their own. Of course there were no ToT for the core tech of the hardware. Importing the hardware was more down to cost savings rather than lack of technology so it also wasn't much of a big deal for both parties.

Other cases outside of Korea only proves that ToT of critical components is impossible. Japan for instance had to develop their FBW system after being denied of ToT by the US. Fortnuately for them, they were already developing FBW using their F-1 jet which they quickly applied to the F-2.

In any case where the transfer of critical tech occured, it was never unilateral. For instance Japan obtained the core tech of F110 engine as a bilateral exchange of their technologies to the US, composite structure manufacturing techniques among other things.

The Jokowi administration or anyone who wants ToT of core components has to first think of what they can offer. They should know that the reason we are able to proceed with the plan of devloping a full-blown fighter jet with such a small budget compared to other countries is not because we are doing miracles but rather down to the fact that Korea has already paid the price with all the preceding development programs. Doubling down on their demands of more ToT with less involvment is never gonna bear any fruit.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
3


----------



## dr.knowhow

@Indos 
Could you tell me what those 9 technologies are?

For instance I know that Indonesia has developed its own FBW sytem for the cancelled N250 aircraft so that's not where Indonesia is lacking much. It might be the case that they want the data of the newest flight control algorithms like NDI model but it's hard to say that Indonesia won't be able to develop such algorithms on they're own.

AESA or EW technologies and techniques are other cases but for me it's difficult to judge because I'm not really well informed of Indonesia's capabilities on developing avionics apart from the fact that they have quite some experience on developing the flight control systems.


----------



## Indos

dr.knowhow said:


> @Indos
> Could you tell me what those 9 technologies are?
> 
> For instance I know that Indonesia has developed its own FBW sytem for the cancelled N250 aircraft so that's not where Indonesia is lacking much. It might be the case that they want the data of the newest flight control algorithms like NDI model but it's hard to say that Indonesia won't be able to develop such algorithms on they're own.
> 
> AESA or EW technologies and techniques are other cases but for me it's difficult to judge because I'm not really well informed of Indonesia's capabilities on developing avionics apart from the fact that they have quite some experience on developing the flight control systems.



He doesnt specify the 9 critical technologies that he mentioned. I see him as bias and he looks like to prefer buying F 35 from what I read from his comment history. He said something which is not true like his critics on the way Indonesian engineers working in Korea that according to him dont transfer the knowledge into engineers who are staying in Indonesia.

His statement is not true since Indonesian Aerospace has made shadow KFX/IFX program in Indonesia that is intended to make other Indonesian engineers who dont go to Korea study the KFX R&D process in Korea and also IMO to make other engineers who stay in Indonesia can contribute on the program. This is why we can see KFX/IFX model being tested in Indonesian wind tunnel facility (BBTA3) as we can see in my previous post.

He is appointed as Minister of Defense deputy due to his political carrier in which he become part of Jokowi campaign team in 2019 election. He doesnt have military and technology background as he is a businessman. His task as Deputy is to develop our defense industry according to Jokowi.

Luckily he is not our Minister of Defense. So far there is no statement coming out from our Minister of Defense regarding the renegotiation other than diplomatic statement he said during meeting with Korean Minister of Defense in Jakarta early this year. Our new Minister of Defense has appointed the men in charge with KFX/IFX program during Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono period as his advisor, so I believe he has person behind him who really understand the situation regarding the program.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> @SgtGungHo @dr.knowhow
> 
> From what I read, Jokowi administration feel reluctant to have 20 % of KFX/IFX financial contribution. The reluctancy is still seen from February official statement, but IMO it doesnt mean Indonesia will leave the program as the administration only want to reduce the financial contribution into 15 %.
> 
> I also think Indonesia want to get some TOT of subsystems being developed using KFX/IFX development cost.
> 
> Latest statement from Defense Minister Deputy (July), he said Indonesia will fully support the program and pay 20 % financial contribution if it gets "sufficient" benefit from the program. The benefit that he mean is more on access of 9 critical technology of the plane.



Than you for you info. I have been busy at my work as the pandemic wreaked havoc on many Australian businesses including my firm's clients.

Anyway, @dr.knowhow is right. Demanding more concessions on ToT for even less financial commitments towards the program wouldn't get you any good result. Especially this is true when Indonesia is in arreas for their program payments.

I am not sure what those 9 critical technologies are (I'd be appreciated if anyone could clarify on this issue), but Indonesia can't seriously expect to receive more than what they were promised for less money.

It seems like the Indonesian government is making excuses of quiting the program. They have already made up their mind on KFX/IFX and are looking for alternatives (including used Typhoon from Austria), but the Indonesian government has to pretend that the decision is made by Korea, not by them to deflect the blame as the opposition party will surely criticize the incumbent government of Indonesia over the fallout.

If their demands are accepted by Korea, Jokowi's administration would celebrate that as one of their accomplishments and use this for their political campaigning.

If their demands are rejected by Korea, Jokowi's administration would put the blame on Korea for refusing to re-negotiate the joint program despite of Indonesia's "commitment" to the flighter jet and present used Typhoon from Austria or whatever other alternatives as a better solution for Indonesia by claiming that KFX/IFX was a bad project for Indonesia to begin with.

I mean it is just all politics and it seems it's clear to me that Indonesia believes it is not worth to cooperate Korea over military projects anymore, at least in the incumbent government's views. I am sure Jokowi's administration would cancel sunmarine contracts with Korea if the Indonesian government could opt out from the contract without paying much financial penalty.
https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/ind...south-korea-for-3-diesel-electric-submarines/

It is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. The dead end is when it is due for Korea to deliver all parts for the 6th prototype of KF-X/IF-X which is supposedly reserved for Indonesia for final assembly in the country and this will happen during Jokowi's administration.

Korea can't and won't deliver the 6th prototype if Indonesia doesn't honor the origianl contract.
The Indonesian government thinks they win either ways so they won't fullfil their financial obligation and will keep demanding both re-negotiation for the joint program and the 6th prototype.

In any case, Indonesia has proven to be an unreliable partner. If the government of Korea is ready to cave in costly demands of Jokowi's administration (sadly I can't competely rule out of the weak & incompetent government of Korea caving in), the country needs to return Indonesian engineers back to home and formally expel Indonesia from the program, just like what the US did to Turkey over F-35 program as it seems like their exit from the joint project is certain and it is just a question of when. Indonesia has already learned from the project more than what they paid as they are in arrears.

I have no doubt Indonesia will find other cost efficient alternatives for what their airforce needs.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos

SgtGungHo said:


> Than you for you info. I have been busy at my work as the pandemic wreaked havoc on many Australian businesses including my firm's clients.
> 
> Anyway, @dr.knowhow is right. Demanding more concessions on ToT for even less financial commitments towards the program wouldn't get you any good result. Especially this is true when Indonesia is in arreas for their program payments.
> 
> I am not sure what those 9 critical technologies are (I'd be appreciated if anyone could clarify on this issue), but Indonesia can't seriously expect to receive more than what they were promised for less money.
> 
> It seems like the Indonesian government is making excuses of quiting the program. They have already made up their mind on KFX/IFX and are looking for alternatives (including used Typhoon from Austria), but the Indonesian government has to pretend that the decision is made by Korea, not by them to deflect the blame as the opposition party will surely criticize the incumbent government of Indonesia over the fallout.
> 
> If their demands are accepted by Korea, Jokowi's administration would celebrate that as one of their accomplishments and use this for their political campaigning.
> 
> If their demands are rejected by Korea, Jokowi's administration would put the blame on Korea for refusing to re-negotiate the joint program despite of Indonesia's "commitment" to the flighter jet and present used Typhoon from Austria or whatever other alternatives as a better solution for Indonesia by claiming that KFX/IFX was a bad project for Indonesia to begin with.
> 
> I mean it is just all politics and it seems it's clear to me that Indonesia believes it is not worth to cooperate Korea over military projects anymore, at least in the incumbent government's views. I am sure Jokowi's administration would cancel sunmarine contracts with Korea if the Indonesian government could opt out from the contract without paying much financial penalty.
> https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/ind...south-korea-for-3-diesel-electric-submarines/
> 
> It is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. The dead end is when it is due for Korea to deliver all parts for the 6th prototype of KF-X/IF-X which is supposedly reserved for Indonesia for final assembly in the country and this will happen during Jokowi's administration.
> 
> Korea can't and won't deliver the 6th prototype if Indonesia doesn't honor the origianl contract.
> The Indonesian government thinks they win either ways so they won't fullfil their financial commitments and will keep demand both re-negotiation for the joint program and the 6th prototype.
> 
> In any case, Indonesia has proven to be an unreliable partner. If the government of Korea is ready to cave in costly demands of Jokowi's administration (sadly I can't competely rule out of the weak & incompetent government of Korea caving in), the country needs to return Indonesian engineers back to home and formally expel Indonesia from the program, just like what the US did to Turkey over F-35 program as it seems like their exit from the joint project is certain and it is just a question of when. Indonesia has already learned from the project more than what they paid as they are in arrears.
> 
> I have no doubt Indonesia may find other cost efficient alternatives for what their airforce needs.



For your information, current Minister of Defense, which is Prabowo is a rival of Jokowi during the last 2 elections and he is quite close with the opposition. This is why I am still quite optimistic that the renegotiation some how can be concluded with both parties are satisfied and Indonesia is still inside the program. He is the man who is appointed by Jokowi to handle the renegotiation.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> For your information, current Minister of Defense, which is Prabowo is a rival of Jokowi during the last 2 elections and he is quite close with the opposition. This is why I am still quite optimistic that the renegotiation some how can be concluded with both parties are satisfied and Indonesia is still inside the program. He is the man who is appointed by Jokowi to handle the renegotiation.



The problem that I see here is that any amendment to the original contact would not be a satisfactory result for Korea. This is not a re-negotiation, but more of a demand for additional concessions by Indonesia.

It seems to me the only difference between between the incumbent government of Indonesia and the opposition is that the Indonesian govt believes it is not worth to persue the joint program and the opposition believes it is worth to persue the program ONLY IF the Korean government concurs with Indonesia and make additional concessions to Indonesia.

I wish Korea and Indonesia would develop more military partnerships over various other projects from UAV to turboprop&turboshaft engines (Korea is developing various gas-turbine engines for many decades) for both military & civilian aircraft in the future, but alas it seems like that future looks very bleak. Maybe after 2024 when there is a new government in Indonesia (as well in Korea).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

SgtGungHo said:


> The problem that I see here is that any amendment to the original contact would not be a satisfactory result for Korea. This is not a re-negotiation, but more of a demand for additional concessions by Indonesia.
> 
> It seems to me the only difference between between the incumbent government of Indonesia and the opposition is that the Indonesian govt believes it is not worth to persue the joint program and the opposition believes it is worth to persue the program ONLY IF the Korean government concurs with Indonesia and make additional concessions to Indonesia.
> 
> I wish Korea and Indonesia would develop more military partnerships over various other projects from UAV to turboprop&turboshaft engines (Korea is developing various gas-turbine engines many decades and for both military & civilian aircraft in the future, but alas it seems like that future looks very bleak. Maybe after 2024 when there is a new government in Indonesia (as well in Korea).



From what I see from the news, parliament members in Defense commission support KFX/IFX program and it includes the high profile members of Jokowi own coalition. The person who ask government to pay KFX/IFX contribution that I posted in previous page is also coming from Jokowi coalition parties. While inside Jokowi inner circle in his administration, I still see people who supported the program and see South Korea as the best partner for Indonesia in defense industry cooperation. But of course there are opposition inside his inner circle, but Jokowi I believe understand the important to keep good relation with South Korea.

Contrary to your judgement, I believe Jokowi still want to keep Indonesia inside the program with some concessions. If he think the cooperation is not worth it, he has already cut the cooperation in June 2018. At that time there are two opinion regarding the program, first stop the cooperation and the second is to continue. There was cabinet meeting discussing that two options and they then made a compromise by saying Indonesia will keep inside the program but with some concession from current contract.

Jokowi is older generation leaders who dont really understand the important of R&D and feel that Indonesia should focus more on basic economic infrastructure investment. Current government even dont finance N 245 program although Indonesia Aerospace only need about 200 million dollar, let alone more ambitious R80 program which is kicked out from our strategic priority program 2020-2024.

In 2024, there will be many young leaders whose ages are in early 50's and in majority has either master or Phd degree. So I think those leaders have more understanding about R&D importance and will likely to be more ambitious in high technology program. Prabowo is the only older generation leader that still has strong support for 2024 election (he got the highest pooling). I have made a special thread about those young leaders in PDF. Indonesia basic infrastructure will also likely have been quite good at that time that make our budget can be diverted more on R&D budget.

That is why this period IMO is critical, if we can make a fair compromise to each other, the future for both cooperation will be quite bright IMO. Indonesia government also has already got parliament permission to get higher budget deficit, so I see more capability from Indonesian side to comply with its 20 percent financial obligation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Whizzack

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-...indigenous-aesa-radar-for-k-fx/139669.article

*South Korea unveils indigenous AESA radar for K-FX*
By Greg Waldron7 August 2020


Save article
Seoul has rolled out the first production prototype of the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar that will equip the developmental Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) KF-X fighter.

The ceremony took place at the research facility of manufacturer Hanwha Systems in Hanjin, according to South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration.

Following the US government’s refusal to share sensitive AESA technology with Seoul in 2015, South Korea’s Agency for Defense Development embarked on the creation of an indigenous AESA set, with Hanwha Systems producing the radar’s hardware and LIG Nex1 the software.

The radar passed its critical design stage in 2019 and has 1,000 independent transmit and receive modules. The entire system includes the antenna, processing device, and a power supply.

A video of the unveiling ceremony shows the radar searching for and detecting targets in the air, sea, and land, as well as a synthetic aperture radar function. It also shows technicians working on the system in laboratories.

In April 2019, airborne tests of the KF-X’s AESA hardware systems, including the transmit-receive antenna and the power supply unit, took place in South Africa with the attendance of KF-X developers from the ADD, Hanwha and KAI.

In addition to extensive Korean industrial participation, foreign firms such as Elta Systems, Leonardo, and Saab are involved in the project.


Previous
Next









































1/5

SHOW CAPTION
In addition to equipping the KF-X, Hanwha Systems sees its AESA technology as a potential upgrade for Seoul’s force of Boeing F-15Ks and T-50 family aircraft.

The unveiling of the radar follows other steps indicating progress with the KF-X, which is due to be rolled out in April 2021.

In early July KAI issued a photograph of the first KF-X fuselage, which is undergoing assembly in the company’s Sacheon factory. In June, GE Aviation confirmed that it had shipped the first F414 engine for the twin-engined type. Eventually, F414s for the K-FX will be produced locally by Hanwha Aerospace.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Indos

Official video from the Agency for Defense Development (ADD) teases that Internal Weapons Bay (IWB) is already reflected in KF-X's software development.

The cockpit GUI (Graphical user Interface) features open / close function of an IWB and 6 x AAMs inside the IWB.


----------



## Whizzack

Indos said:


> Official video from the Agency for Defense Development (ADD) teases that Internal Weapons Bay (IWB) is already reflected in KF-X's software development.
> 
> The cockpit GUI (Graphical user Interface) features open / close function of an IWB and 6 x AAMs inside the IWB.



@Indos
I think I read somewhere before that in the block 1 version of KFX, the space reserved for IWB will be used to install additional fuel tank... and that this is to satisfy TNI AU's requirement for a longer range/endurance version of KFX (IFX)..? After the development of the bay doors and release mechanism in block 2 (or later version), this space will then revert back as IWB for additional stealth but less range /endurance compared to block 1... 
What do you think..? Is there any truth in that notion...?


----------



## Indos

Whizzack said:


> @Indos
> I think I read somewhere before that in the block 1 version of KFX, the space reserved for IWB will be used to install additional fuel tank... and that this is to satisfy TNI AU's requirement for a longer range/endurance version of KFX (IFX)..? After the development of the bay doors and release mechanism in block 2 (or later version), this space will then revert back as IWB for additional stealth but less range /endurance compared to block 1...
> What do you think..? Is there any truth in that notion...?



I dont know, there is no official confirmation about that, but the possibility for that is quite high. They will try to make the design as efficient as it can to store the fuel since Indonesia need to have fighter that has good range, and I believe Korea also see this as something important as well since I also think KFX is actually more intended to neutralize any challenge coming from China and Japan, not necessarily from North Korea, thus range becomes quite important. It is also why both Indonesia and Korean airforce prefer double engine fighter.

The thing that is sure enough and has already been confirmed is that the final design which is C109 has already been made with IWB in mind.


----------



## NEKONEKO

The subsystem such as IRST, targeting pod and many protruding bulge for EW will increase RCS. I think their priority is to make those subsystem work first and make it stealthy later, and no need to focus on the IWB which is more complex compared than standard external mounting on pylon, they can work on it later.


----------



## NEKONEKO

Indos said:


> neutralize any challenge coming from China and Japan, not necessarily from North Korea, thus range becomes quite important.


Rather China and Japan, isn't North Korea is much a threat for them?
Nah they are quite interested with the single engine version, range is not really a must for them.


----------



## Whizzack

NEKONEKO said:


> The subsystem such as IRST, targeting pod and many protruding bulge for EW will increase RCS. I think their priority is to make those subsystem work first and make it stealthy later, and no need to focus on the IWB which is more complex compared than standard external mounting on pylon, they can work on it later.



Yeah, I don't think they are focusing on IWB work for the block 1 version, even in the published development timeline we can see that there will be no IWB in block 1... However they would've included the space for IWB in the hull / airframe design, even for block 1, although it's probably just going to be empty space for now... otherwise they will have to redesign the hull again for block 2 (and later versions) to include the IWB...

So if in the interim they plan to install additional fuel tanks in the (still) empty IWB space in block 1, then I am all for it... Not sure how practical it would be but TNI AU can really use the additional range and endurance, while ROKAF would probably prefer the stealthier block 2 with IWB..

Also this might give prospective buyers additional options... get the Longer range / Less stealthy / Less complex / cheaper block 1 or the Shorter range / more stealthy / more complex / more expensive block 2.. or even a mix of the 2 models as required...

This is an older article from 2018, not sure if it still true today, but might give an idea of the development plan..
http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2018/05/key-points-of-kf-x-and-if-x-fighter.html


----------



## Indos

This new development is good for KFX/IFX program and the renegotiation that is still going on.

*Indonesia to establish travel corridor for ‘essential business trips’ with South Korea *

Rizki Fachriansyah
The Jakarta Post

Jakarta / Thu, August 13, 2020 / 05:05 pm 






Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi attends the Joint Commission Meeting with New Zealand Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters virtually on July 29. (Twitter/@Menlu_RI)


Indonesia and South Korea have agreed to establish a travel corridor to facilitate “essential business and diplomatic trips” between the two countries amid the ongoing COVID-19 crisis.

Indonesian Foreign Affairs Minister Retno Marsudi said arrangements for the travel corridor had been finalized with South Korean Foreign Affairs Minister Kang Kyung-wha on Wednesday evening.

“I hereby announce that the essential business travel corridor arrangement with South Korea has been agreed upon and will be inaugurated on Aug. 17, coinciding with Indonesia’s 75th Independence Day,” Retno told an online press conference as quoted in a statement on Thursday.

The government finalized a similar agreement with the United Arab Emirates last month, allowing state officials and industry stakeholders from the two countries to go on essential trips between one another.

Retno said the agreement with South Korea had taken longer to finalize as both countries were keen on ensuring strict adherence to health protocols.

Read also: Indonesia finalizing 'travel corridor' with UAE

Per the agreement, only essential industry stakeholders and state officials may use the travel corridor.

“I would like to reiterate that the travel corridor with South Korea is intended for essential business people and members of the diplomatic community, not tourists,” she said.

The agreement, she said, was expected to grant leeway to state departments and businesses from both countries, allowing them to reconnect and resume projects that had been halted due to the COVID-19 pandemic while still complying with health procedures.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...ssential-business-trips-with-south-korea.html


----------



## Indos

NEKONEKO said:


> Rather China and Japan, isn't North Korea is much a threat for them?
> Nah they are quite interested with the single engine version, range is not really a must for them.



Do you forget that last Korean war ? China is in North Korea side, so of course South Korea will consider China J 20 when they develop KFX/IFX together with Indonesia.

The decision to whether use single or double engine for KFX/IFX is not something small, double engine design will increase the cost and complicate the program further. This is why KAI prefer single KFX design. I dont think South Korean compromise it because of Indonesia which is only a junior partner on this project.

The twin engine C103 design that finally pick to be developed further is designed by ADD Korea and PT Dirgantara Indonesia. At that time, Indonesian also send Air Force personnel on the R&D program beside aerospace designers, so I would assume Korean also send their Air Force personnel on the R&D as well.


----------



## Indos

KFX/IFX first prototype according to Korean local defense journalist has been completed and will be unveiled tomorrow. Not sure about the validity, but I dont expect it would be unveil tomorrow., most probably some where within this month and it should be reported by news before it is going to be introduced into the public. But lets see


----------



## Indos

OK, it has been publicly unveiled but the prototype hasnt been completed yet. AlhamduliLLAH.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Philip the Arab

Indos said:


> OK, it has been publicly unveiled but the prototype hasnt been completed yet.
> 
> View attachment 666229


Congrats my friend.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Philip the Arab said:


> Congrats my friend.



Thank you bro. The assembly uses FASS technique (Fuselage Automated Splice System)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Whizzack

South Korea embarks on final assembly of KF-X prototype


Final assembly of the first Korea Aerospace Industries KF-X fighter has commenced in Sacheon, South Korea.




www.flightglobal.com





*South Korea embarks on final assembly of KF-X prototype*
By Greg Waldron3 September 2020

Final assembly of the first Korea Aerospace Industries KF-X fighter has commenced in Sacheon, South Korea.
The process will see the aircraft’s fuselage sections and wings joined, says South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration.




Source: Greg Waldron
KAI displayed a full-sized mock-up of the developmental KF-X at Seoul ADEX in October, 2019
A ceremony planned to mark the occasion was cancelled, however, owing to the coronavirus outbreak.

Despite the pandemic, South Korea has pressed ahead with KF-X work. In early August the production prototype of the aircraft’s indigenous active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, which is produced by Hanwha Systems, was revealed.
In July, KAI revealed the first fuselage of the first KF-X, while in June GE Aviation delivered the first F414 engine for the twin-engined jet. GE will deliver 15 additional F414s to power the programmes six prototypes, of which one example will go to programme partner Indonesia.
Ultimately, Hanwha Aerospace will license produce the F414 locally.
The first prototype is due to be rolled out in April 2021, with test flights starting in 2022 and running to 2026. Mass production will commence in 2028, but the aircraft will have limited weapons capability.




Source: Greg Waldron
The new KF-X will replace South Korea’s fleet of McDonnell Douglas F-4E Phantoms
Series production jets produced from 2029 onwards will be able to use the full range of air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles.
At least 120 examples are expected to replace the Republic of Korea Air Force’s (ROKAF) fleet of ageing McDonnell Douglas F-4D/E Phantom IIs and Northrop F-5E/F Tiger IIs. Indonesia appears likely obtain 48 examples of the IF-X variant, with an initial order of 16, and 32 to follow depending on finances.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dr.knowhow

Indos said:


> KFX/IFX first prototype according to Korean local defense journalist has been completed and will be unveiled tomorrow. Not sure about the validity, but I dont expect it would be unveil tomorrow., most probably some where within this month and it should be reported by news before it is going to be introduced into the public. But lets see
> 
> 
> View attachment 666029



That guy is not really known for his credibility or knowledge concerning military matters. There are quite some stupid claims he made in the past so guess you could note that when searching for anything related to the Korean military.



Indos said:


> OK, it has been publicly unveiled but the prototype hasnt been completed yet. AlhamduliLLAH.
> 
> View attachment 666229



This is all following the plan laid a while ago. According to the plan, today is supposed to be the "beginning of the final assembly of the first prototype" and that is exactly what we've got. Completion of the aircraft is scheduled for the first half of next year and so far there ain't even a single day of delay so I think the schedule will be kept. Of course most of the delays occur once the aircraft starts its testing so it ain't over till it's over.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Other picture, from the side

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Whizzack

South Korean Stealth KF-21 (KFX) Fighter Jet Will Fly In 2022


South Korea’s new KF-X (Korean Fighter eXperimental) multi-role stealth fighter has begun final assembly despite the ongoing Covid-19 pandemic, and will be rolled out in the first half of next year…




www.globaldefensecorp.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Indos said:


> Other picture, from the side
> 
> View attachment 666381



The picture is taken from this official KAI Korea website









KAI KOREA AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES, LTD.


KAI, Korea Aerospace Industries, Commercial Aircraft, Commercial Helicopter, Military Aircraft, Military Helicopter, Unmanned Aerial Vehicle, Defence and Space, Aircraft Company, Aerostructure, Satellite, Space Launch Vehicle, MRO, Training System, KFX, KF-X, T-50, FA-50, KT-1, KC-100, LAH, LCH...




m.koreaaero.com


----------



## Indos

@SgtGungHo @dr.knowhow 

Youtube video channel talking about KFX/IFX program start getting popularity in Indonesia. I hope this can give more support on the program. I know Indonesian government make ridiculous demand on the renegotiation and doesnt pay the R&D cost for the last 2-3 years. I just still hope people to people relation between two nations dont get serious negative effect due to the program problem. 

There is quite big R&D budget (big in Indonesian perspective since our R&D is very small) in our 2021 defense budget that IMO is intended for paying KFX/IFX R&D cost. We also can pay the cost using foreign loan and currently our minister of defense has given his proposal to our strategic development agency (Bappenas) to get 20 billion USD foreign loan for armed force acquisition in the period of 2020-2024, it lets to Bappenas to decide which foreign loan that can get approval. 

As KFX/IFX program has relation with our defense industry so I guess it will have more chance to be supported financially than other programs which much less and even zero local industry participation, especially if the renegotiation can be successfully completed with Indonesia is still inside the program.

Talking about our submarine program, there is huge possibility it will still continue since the budget for making another submarine infrastructure has been included in 2021 state budget. 

Here is our latest mainstream media talk about KFX/IFX project. It is made by CNBC Indonesia which is owned by the same person who owned CNN Indonesia which is Chaerul Tanjung. Pretty much he is in Jokowi camp with his daughter part of Jokowi young advisors. Despite so the media tone is quite neutral and I think it is good to bring more exposure about current state of KFX/IFX program to the wider public. By translating the title you can understand what is being talked there.

And if you see the comment section, you can see that majority comment support the program and ask government to continue paying the cost.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

The latest statement from Minister of Defense office regarding KFX/IFX renegotiation. The news is written in Kompas, a quite respected newspaper in Indonesia with large readership. Other respected Indonesian media with large readership also wrote the news about KFX/IFX with similar topic.

"Currently, the government will carry out the next stage of renegotiation related to the cost share that must be paid by the Government of Indonesia, including renegotiations related to the sustainability of the project," said Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto spokesman Dahnil Anzar Simanjuntak in his statement, Tuesday (9/7/2020).









Prabowo Bakal Renegoisasi Biaya Pengembangan Pesawat Tempur dengan Korsel Halaman all - Kompas.com


Langkah negosiasi ulang ini dilakukan setelah sebelumnya Indonesia dilaporkan mengalami penunggakan biaya proyek bersama itu. Halaman all




nasional.kompas.com





Based on his statement, South Korea is ready to reduce Indonesia financial involvement into 18.8 % while Indonesian government initially has demand to reduce its financial contribution into 15 %. Previous deal say that Indonesia has 20% stake on the program.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos

Philip the Arab said:


> Koreans were not willing to give much in this project either way which is why Turkey didn't want the joint program with them.
> 
> What parts are you going to produce?



Korea rejected Turkish proposal because Turkey want to have similar shares with South Korea. About the part we are going to produce, it is stated by Indonesian Ministry of Defense official who is responsible for KFX/IFX program. All IFX will also be assembled in Indonesian Aerospace.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Google Translate*

In making the prototype of the multi-fighter aircraft, according to Head of the Ministry of Defense's Research and Development Agency Anne Kusmayati, *PTDI will make wings, boosters at the bottom of the wing and tail.*

Work on KF-X / IF-X fighter jets will be centered in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province, South Korea, the city which is the headquarters and main factory of Korea Aerospace Industries.

A total of 200 Indonesian engineers have gradually departed for Sacheon for one or two years. At first they will design the aircraft design. The engineers will also participate in designing all aircraft components.

Of the total workers of the two countries involved in the making of KF-X / IF-X, 30 percent are more from Indonesia and the majority of the rest are from South Korea. This is also the reason for making aircraft centered on Sacheon, not in Indonesia.

The proportion of more than 30 percent of Indonesian engineers involved in working on the KF-X / IF-X actually increased from the original amount of 20 percent. The addition of Indonesian workers occurred as time went by cultivation.

"It signifies that Indonesian engineers count on Korea. There is even a work package whose technology is only owned by Indonesians. He is a doctor from ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology), the only one who has inlight design capabilities. So Korea does not take Indonesia lightly, "Anne said.









Jet Tempur RI Buatan 'Sendiri' Mengangkasa 9 Tahun Lagi


Tak lebih dari 10 negara di muka bumi ini yang sungguh-sungguh bisa membuat pesawat tempur. Indonesia kini hendak masuk jajaran elite negara-negara itu.




www.cnnindonesia.com





And for IFX made for our Air Force, Indonesia (look like) has the option to put other component made by its own defense industry.

Some potential Indonesian made component beside fuselage to be used for Indonesian IFX.

1. PT InfoGlobal. Avionics












infoglobal.co.id


Infoglobal has grown to a competent company in electronic and information technology. The main focuses of the products are aviation electronic device called Avionics. Infoglobal also develops some applications software, including training and implementation services.




m.infoglobal.co.id





2 PT LEN Industry. IFF (Identification Friend or Foe)






Lini Bisnis Elektronika Pertahanan | PT Len Industri (Persero)







www.len.co.id





@Philip the Arab

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> Based on his statement, South Korea is ready to reduce Indonesia financial involvement into 18.8 % while Indonesian government initially has demand to reduce its financial contribution into 15 %. Previous deal say that Indonesia has 20% stake on the program.



Sigh. 1.2% reduction in payments for KF-X/IF-X project for what? I think at this point it is better for Korea to do KF-X alone and Indonesia should just buy more F-16 Viper & second hand Typoon from Austria.


----------



## triangle

SgtGungHo said:


> Sigh. 1.2% reduction in payments for KF-X/IF-X project for what? I think at this point it is better for Korea to do KF-X alone and Indonesia should just buy more F-16 Viper & second hand Typoon from Austria.



It seems the Indonesians don't know what they want themselves. First palm oil for 5th gen fighter development and now lowered cost share. Doesn't really make for a reliable partner for any future defense collaboration.

They should aim for a force of 150 KFX and 100 TFX by 2040. Retire all the rest.


----------



## Indos

triangle said:


> It seems the Indonesians don't know what they want themselves. First palm oil for 5th gen fighter development and now lowered cost share. Doesn't really make for a reliable partner for any future defense collaboration.
> 
> They should aim for a force of 150 KFX and 100 TFX by 2040. Retire all the rest.



Dont make generalization over this matter. The one who makes the mess is Jokowi administration who made 2015 work sharing deal with South Korea that start second phase of development, which is manufacturing phase, the administration then renegotiate the deal that is actually concluded during his early first term, nothing to do with the rest of Indonesian who are mostly supporting the program.

He is coming from the opposite political camp that accepted South Korean offer in 2009.

And no, reducing the share is the demand since the start of renegotiation and as far as I know there is no such thing like paying the development cost trought palm oil sales, actually the government offered the payment through CN 235 sales and other Indonesian military equipments (ammunition could be the other likely product for barter scheme)

And by listening to latest statement from Minister of Defense office, it is clear that the renegotiation has reached second stage and it look like only covers about cost reduction and program sustainability like what that spoke person told to the news reporters.

I think ridiculous Jokowi administration demands like paying the cost through barter has been dropped and not discussed anymore.


----------



## NEKONEKO

150 KFX and 100 F35 that would be good.


----------



## UMNOPutra

Alman Helvas
@AHelvas
20 Sep

Indonesia has to cope with a big challenge during KFX/IFX program renegotiation with ROK. The former has no enough data related to the program's whole cost. Ministry of Defense depend on Indonesian airframer data, but the SOE has no access to the whole EMD cost. Only ROK have it.


----------



## SgtGungHo

UMNOPutra said:


> Alman Helvas
> @AHelvas
> 20 Sep
> 
> Indonesia has to cope with a big challenge during KFX/IFX program renegotiation with ROK. The former has no enough data related to the program's whole cost. Ministry of Defense depend on Indonesian airframer data, but the SOE has no access to the whole EMD cost. Only ROK have it.



They should stop calling this as "renegotiation". This is a demand for more concessions from Indonesia with nothing in return for Korea. If the reports are true, the Korean government has to find additional funds from their Covid-19 sickened budget to cover the reduced financial contributions from Indonesia, again, nothing in return for Korea.

Indonesia is not going to honor the contract and it is the best for both countries to go separate ways.

Honestly, Indonesia is better off with F-16V as it has to cover the 2nd (1st?) longest coastline in the world.


----------



## Indos

2020-09-22 17:34

*Korea, Indonesia set renegotiations for joint fighter jet development project*







The first KF-X advanced multirole fighter prototype is being assembled at a Korea Aerospace Industries facility in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province, Sept. 3. Courtesy of Defense Acquisition Program Administration

By Jung Da-min

Korea and Indonesia are working on a new agreement for their joint fighter jet project, which has hit a snag following Indonesia's delay in paying hundreds of millions of dollars.

About 10 officials from the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) and Korean Aerospace Industries (KAI) ― the maker of the KF-X aircraft ― left for Jakarta, Tuesday, to meet Indonesian officials on Wednesday and Thursday, according to the two organizations.

The joint fighter jet project is called the KF-X (Korean Fighter eXperimental) in Korea and the IF-X (Indonesian Fighter eXperimental) in Indonesia.

While the two sides have held four rounds of renegotiations, the latest talks come after about a year. It is also the first meeting since Indonesia's Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto took office last October. Subianto had been putting off resuming talks with the Korean government, saying he would review the overall content of the country's defense budget and weapons systems.

During this week's meeting, officials of the two countries are expected to review conditions of the joint development project to strike a deal, as Indonesia wants a reduction in how much it promised to pay the Korean government.

Indonesia initially agreed to pay 1.7 trillion won ($1.46 billion), which accounts for about 20 percent of the total 8 trillion won project budget. But it has only paid about 220 billion won. It stopped paying in late 2017, citing the country's deteriorating financial situation.

While payment is supposed to be completed by 2026, the arrears are around 500 billion won.

According to industry officials, the Indonesian side wants to reduce its contribution from the promised 20 percent to 15 percent. The proposal was raised by Indonesian President Joko Widodo when he met President Moon Jae-in during a visit to Korea in September 2018, according to the officials.

Last year, Indonesia's Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Wiranto said the country was considering offering CN-235 aircraft from the country's state plane maker PT Dirgantara Indonesia as part of its contribution, instead of cash.

Industry officials said Indonesia also wanted the Korean government to transfer more of the technology for the fighter jet development to Indonesia ― a request that Korea cannot decide alone because some of the technology is linked to the United States.

Meanwhile, the fighter development by KAI is going smoothly, with the manufacturer set to roll out the prototype in the first half of 2021. Earlier this month, KAI started assembling the prototype of what will be the country's first indigenously developed fighter jet.









Korea, Indonesia set renegotiations for joint fighter jet development project


Korea and Indonesia are working on a new agreement for their joint fighter jet project, which has hit a snag following Indonesia's delay in paying hundreds of millions of dollars.




m.koreatimes.co.kr


----------



## Indos

If the renegotiation is success, Indonesia can have potency to buy at least 150 IFX until 2040 (In the condition if the program is successful inshaAllah).

I can say those numbers will likely be 50 block 1 IFX ( as being promised by Indonesia administration), 50 block 2 IFX, and 50 block 3 IFX. 

It is because there is law that prohibit defense ministry to buy foreign defense equipments that have been produced in the country. 

Other factor is Indonesia economic potency and our acquisition plan (MEF) that is quite ambitious. In 2030 Indonesia economy is projected to reach 2 trillion USD, doubling current GDP figure.

Buying defense product that is produced in the country also always get support from the public and media. This will make future leader (Jokowi will finish his final term in 2024) prefer buying IFX to get political score.

Indonesian people is very nationalistic that can be seen from the fact that few Indonesian migrant worker change their citizenship, 99 % will come back.

Indonesia can set aside its budget for fighter acquisition in the period of 2020 -2024 for paying the development cost of KFX/IFX.


----------



## dr.knowhow

As of now, I would wait for the final outcome of the renegotiation in order to judge Indonesia's involvement in the program.

One thing that I could say for sure though, is that the ROKAF would not be willing to get yet another batch of CN-235s. It is quite widely known that the Indonesian CN-235s in the ROKAF fleet were suffering serious quality issues when they were first delivered, thus it was necessary to send them to KAI in order to fix the problems. Same issues again when the CG got their CN-235s as well. I'm not aware of how much the QC and overall manufacturing technology of PTDI has improved ever since, but would still say it's a matter of doubt.


----------



## NEKONEKO

Is the first prototype will use probe n drogue or flying boom for air refueling?

Where will be the location of the probe tho, in the cockpit area or a little bit at the back.


----------



## Whizzack

NEKONEKO said:


> Is the first prototype will use probe n drogue or flying boom for air refueling?
> 
> Where will be the location of the probe tho, in the cockpit area or a little bit at the back.



It seems the probe requirement is for IFX, while KFX will use boom. So if we opt out of this project, or reduce our our participation, the probe version might not be realized... That being said, having both a probe and a boom version will mean more options for potential customers, which is a good thing.. and a probe version also allows the possibility of buddy tanking which doesn't require dedicated tankers, which means more flexibility..


----------



## NEKONEKO

Whizzack said:


> It seems the probe requirement is for IFX, while KFX will use boom. So if we opt out of this project, or reduce our our participation, the probe version might not be realized... That being said, having both a probe and a boom version will mean more options for potential customers, which is a good thing.. and a probe version also allows the possibility of buddy tanking which doesn't require dedicated tankers, which means more flexibility..


I see, so the prototype for ours will have probe, will it be built in Korea and then will be shipped to Indonesia?


----------



## Whizzack

NEKONEKO said:


> I see, so the prototype for ours will have probe, will it be built in Korea and then will be shipped to Indonesia?


I believe that was the original plan... Out of the planned 5 prototypes, 1 unit will be sent to us / PTDI for further testing and customizations to suit TNI AUs needs... AU has actually send pilots to Test Pilot Training school for this purpose... However with the ongoing renegotiations we'll have to see if the plan holds...


----------



## Indos

Whizzack said:


> I believe that was the original plan... Out of the planned 5 prototypes, 1 unit will be sent to us / PTDI for further testing and customizations to suit TNI AUs needs... AU has actually send pilots to Test Pilot Training school for this purpose... However with the ongoing renegotiations we'll have to see if the plan holds...



Base on what I read, the prototype that will be for Indonesia is assembled in Indonesia. Maybe we also have started producing some components in that prototype stage and I think it is quite logic since we will produce some components for all KFX/IFX so Indonesia Aerospace made in components must be tested as well before mass production (if the program is successful and Indonesia is still inside the program). There will be some Korean that will help the process.


----------



## Whizzack

Indos said:


> Base on what I read, the prototype that will be for Indonesia is assembled in Indonesia. Maybe we also have started producing some components in that prototype stage and I think it is quite logic since we will produce some components for all KFX/IFX so Indonesia Aerospace made in components must be tested as well before mass production (if the program is successful and Indonesia is still inside the program). There will be some Korean that will help the process.



If that's the case then even better... I feel we would at least do the assembly of the prototype locally... I wonder whether the South Korean KFX delegation are still in Indonesia and what are the progress of the talks so far...


----------



## Whizzack

Good news! Hopefully it turns out to be true... 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311442198672543744
However considering we are shouldering 20% of the development cost, I think it's just fair that we will also be producing 20% of the parts for all production KFX/IFX and not just for IFX... let's see after a formal decision has been announced..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Whizzack said:


> If that's the case then even better... I feel we would at least do the assembly of the prototype locally... I wonder whether the South Korean KFX delegation are still in Indonesia and what are the progress of the talks so far...



Yup, manufacturing some KFX/IFX parts (base on work shared deal), doing assembling and integration work in Indonesia for IFX prototype (fifh KFX planed prototypes) is very importance before mass production is commenced in 2026 (if the program is successful and Indonesia is still inside the program).

The rolling out of IFX prototype in our facility can be other big thing that can benefit main party and I believe will be publicized heavily by both mainstream and non-mainstream media. It can be a long and continuous report since the manufacturing starts, we can see how Korean play it during this first prototype manufacturing stage, it is a very good PR content for current administration and their political supporters if they can play it well.

PDI-P party can get huge benefit if they want to make some political score despite the program has been started by previous administration, but common public will likely to believe that it is another Jokowi big achievement, while more knowledgeable folks will likely to have more respect on the current administration due to the program continuation. 

Talking about the current renegotiation, I dont have any connection in high rank defense ministry official, but I believe Jokowi will be involved personally as well, I dont think Prabowo can decide the fate of the program alone. So Jokowi close ring will also have some say on the program future.



Whizzack said:


> Good news! Hopefully it turns out to be true...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311442198672543744
> However considering we are shouldering 20% of the development cost, I think it's just fair that we will also be producing 20% of the parts for all production KFX/IFX and not just for IFX... let's see after a formal decision has been announced..



Thats a definately a good news if it is true and I believe if we stay at 20 % it means there will be some consession given to Indonesia regarding to TOT. 

Thats wright, it is not making any sense at all if we dont make 20 % of the parts for all KFX/IFX since we invest 20 % of the cost and contribute on the design and R & D since 2010.


----------



## UMNOPutra

Is this news accurate ?

https://politik.rmol.id/read/2020/1...i-i-mengutip-prabowo-di-rapat-akan-dihentikan


----------



## Indos

UMNOPutra said:


> Is this news is accurate ?
> 
> https://politik.rmol.id/read/2020/1...i-i-mengutip-prabowo-di-rapat-akan-dihentikan



The news seems accurate suggesting that Prabowo think that Indonesia doesnt benefit much on the program and he considers Indonesia to pull out from the program. Despite so there is no mention over when the meeting took place (which is the time Prabowo spoke to the parliament), is it before or after the renegotiation that happened last month?

Actually there is no official statement from our government about the result of last renegotiation (September 2020), so we need to wait for some other time as both parties (Indonesia and Korea) dont talk much after that meeting.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

OK look like the meeting with parliament happened in 9 September which was around 15 days before the renegotiation with Korean took place, so it is clear that Prabowo himself is not fond to continue the program which is actually inline with his deputy previous statement in July 2020 (CNBC Indonesia), but we dont know the result of renegotiation in the 25-29 of September yet as both parties remain silent.

The main problem is not money according to his deputy. Indonesia itself has 2 future projects like N 245 and R 80 airplane that needs a lot of designer/engineers in which we know more than 100 designers are absorbed by KFX/IFX project so far, so I think Indonesia want to make sure they get enough benefit from the program as Indonesia sacrifice its own program for the sake of KFX/IFX program in term of our human power. Not to mention the remaining unpaid 1.8 billion USD also enough to make both N 245 and R 80 passenger plane program completes where these civilian program have more possibility to create profits and expand production rate than fighter plane.

So I hope Korean can accept some of Indonesia demand like in TOT for subsystem (could be AESA radars), more workshare during mass production stage and IP right or reduced financial participation into 15 % (as what Indonesia wants) in order to keep Indonesia inside the program. Actually I previously assumed Prabowo as someone that part of KFX/IFX continuation supporter.

Recent Prabowo meeting with the parliament, 9 September









5 Jam Rapat Tertutup, Ini yang Dibahas Prabowo dengan Komisi I DPR - Tribunnews.com


Komisi I DPR RI menggelar rapat kerja dengan Menteri Pertahanan Prabowo Subianto, Rabu (9/9/2020).




www.tribunnews.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dr.knowhow

Indos said:


> OK look like the meeting with parliament happened in 9 September which was around 15 days before the renegotiation with Korean took place, so it is clear that Prabowo himself is not fond to continue the program which is actually inline with his deputy previous statement in July 2020 (CNBC Indonesia), but we dont know the result of renegotiation in the 25-29 of September yet as both parties remain silent.
> 
> The main problem is not money according to his deputy. Indonesia itself has 2 future projects like N 245 and R 80 airplane that needs a lot of designer/engineers in which we know more than 100 designers are absorbed by KFX/IFX project so far, so I think Indonesia want to make sure they get enough benefit from the program as Indonesia sacrifice its own program for the sake of KFX/IFX program in term of our human power. Not to mention the remaining unpaid 1.8 billion USD also enough to make both N 245 and R 80 passenger plane program completes where these civilian program have more possibility to create profits and expand production rate than fighter plane.
> 
> So I hope Korean can accept some of Indonesia demand like in TOT for subsystem (could be AESA radars), more workshare during mass production stage and IP right or reduced financial participation into 15 % (as what Indonesia wants) in order to keep Indonesia inside the program. Actually I previously assumed Prabowo as someone that part of KFX/IFX continuation supporter.
> 
> Recent Prabowo meeting with the parliament, 9 September
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 Jam Rapat Tertutup, Ini yang Dibahas Prabowo dengan Komisi I DPR - Tribunnews.com
> 
> 
> Komisi I DPR RI menggelar rapat kerja dengan Menteri Pertahanan Prabowo Subianto, Rabu (9/9/2020).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tribunnews.com



You've got to consider what Indonesia could offer Korea. There are mainly 2 reasons Korea needed and needs Indonesia in KF-X Program.

Firstly, given all of the political opposition KF-X program faced pre Park administration, having an international partner was a huge incentive for the program to go through. The need for this political incentive is now gone as KF-X has progressed so much that it has basically become impossible to kill. KF-X is half of ROKAF post 2030 at this point. Having Indonesia or not doesn't matter concerning politics anymorw.

Second reason is having a larger production number and operator pool. Surely 120 compared to 170 is quite a huge difference. Unit cost and maintenance would both be affected, thus the prospects for selling these fighters oversees as well. Then again ROKAF exactly isn't physically limited to just procurring 120 airframes. That's the basic plan and there are already talks about procurring even more than just that before replacing KF-16s. On top of that there is block 3 which would likely replace the KF-16s post 2035. So it's more of a concern compared to Indonesia's contribution but isn't unsolvable.

And that contribution itself being delayed so much is not much of a great prospect for Indonesia. Part of Indonesia's contribution is used to pay the Indonesian engineers themselves as the man-cost is the biggest expenditure of any R&D program. KAI and RoK govn. were paying these bills before those 100 or so engineers went back due to Covid. Technological cobtribution from those Indonesian engineers are close to nothing and they are assigned to basic calculations of variables and solutions already suggested by Korean and LM engineers, thus non of them are even assigned in any critical avionics development in the first place. There isn't a single problem not having them at all, thus Indonesia's excuse of 'sacrificing their own R&D program' doesn't mean anyting to the Koreans.

Then again are $1.5 billion worth for Korea to hand over any advanced avionics tech to Indonesia? Not at all. Like I've said in one of my previous post here there hasn't been a single case where such ToT has happend in recent years. It took almost 15 years for Korea to get to this point of technological expertise to develop an airborne AESA radar and even longer for FC and EW suites among others. On top of that, what's Indonesia going to do with all these technologies? I'm not so sure if they will be able to swallow and digest all these techs they are demanding from Korea. Many of these tech were developed/codeveloped by ETRI with 4G and 5G communication evolution in mind. Modern AESA and EW have lots of convergence with state of the art civilian communication technology so it made sense. Is that the case for Indonesia?

I do hope that the partnership continues and lowered contribution would be the best choice but 15% is just too much without reduced work-share to Indonesia. ToT of critical tech is just nonsense. I am also still doubtful about the quality of components if any are to be produced and be fitted in KF-X as well, given the quality of CN-235 aircrafts Korea received for both the ROKAF and CG. Cracked fuselage doesn't translate into any confidence.

To sum it up, Indonesia needs to acknowledge that they are not on the level of technology with which they would be able to sit on the driver's seat of the negotiation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RadarGudumluMuhimmat

dr.knowhow said:


> You've got to consider what Indonesia could offer Korea. There are mainly 2 reasons Korea needed and needs Indonesia in KF-X Program.
> 
> Firstly, given all of the political opposition KF-X program faced pre Park administration, having an international partner was a huge incentive for the program to go through. The need for this political incentive is now gone as KF-X has progressed so much that it has basically become impossible to kill. KF-X is half of ROKAF post 2030 at this point. Having Indonesia or not doesn't matter concerning politics anymorw.
> 
> Second reason is having a larger production number and operator pool. Surely 120 compared to 170 is quite a huge difference. Unit cost and maintenance would both be affected, thus the prospects for selling these fighters oversees as well. Then again ROKAF exactly isn't physically limited to just procurring 120 airframes. That's the basic plan and there are already talks about procurring even more than just that before replacing KF-16s. On top of that there is block 3 which would likely replace the KF-16s post 2035. So it's more of a concern compared to Indonesia's contribution but isn't unsolvable.
> 
> And that contribution itself being delayed so much is not much of a great prospect for Indonesia. Part of Indonesia's contribution is used to pay the Indonesian engineers themselves as the man-cost is the biggest expenditure of any R&D program. KAI and RoK govn. were paying these bills before those 100 or so engineers went back due to Covid. Technological cobtribution from those Indonesian engineers are close to nothing and they are assigned to basic calculations of variables and solutions already suggested by Korean and LM engineers, thus non of them are even assigned in any critical avionics development in the first place. There isn't a single problem not having them at all, thus Indonesia's excuse of 'sacrificing their own R&D program' doesn't mean anyting to the Koreans.
> 
> Then again are $1.5 billion worth for Korea to hand over any advanced avionics tech to Indonesia? Not at all. Like I've said in one of my previous post here there hasn't been a single case where such ToT has happend in recent years. It took almost 15 years for Korea to get to this point of technological expertise to develop an airborne AESA radar and even longer for FC and EW suites among others. On top of that, what's Indonesia going to do with all these technologies? I'm not so sure if they will be able to swallow and digest all these techs they are demanding from Korea. Many of these tech were developed/codeveloped by ETRI with 4G and 5G communication evolution in mind. Modern AESA and EW have lots of convergence with state of the art civilian communication technology so it made sense. Is that the case for Indonesia?
> 
> I do hope that the partnership continues and lowered contribution would be the best choice but 15% is just too much without reduced work-share to Indonesia. ToT of critical tech is just nonsense. I am also still doubtful about the quality of components if any are to be produced and be fitted in KF-X as well, given the quality of CN-235 aircrafts Korea received for both the ROKAF and CG. Cracked fuselage doesn't translate into any confidence.
> 
> To sum it up, Indonesia needs to acknowledge that they are not on the level of technology with which they would be able to sit on the driver's seat of the negotiation.




Korea doesn't even give T of TOT to Indonesia for Aesa Radars and Gan modules.

How much money I do not have exact information Indonesia for KFX-IFX but putting even Turkey's overall R & D spends more than 1.5 billion dollars for the F35. Of course, these are Turkish licensed products (excluding mid-body).


It's also interesting to imagine a country that has never even produced mechanical radar could actually absorb such technology.


----------



## Indos

dr.knowhow said:


> And that contribution itself being delayed so much is not much of a great prospect for Indonesia. Part of Indonesia's contribution is used to pay the Indonesian engineers themselves as the man-cost is the biggest expenditure of any R&D program. KAI and RoK govn. were paying these bills before those 100 or so engineers went back due to Covid. *Technological contribution from those Indonesian engineers are close to nothing and they are assigned to basic calculations of variables and solutions already suggested by Korean and LM engineers,* thus non of them are even assigned in any critical avionics development in the first place. There isn't a single problem not having them at all, thus Indonesia's excuse of 'sacrificing their own R&D program' doesn't mean anyting to the Koreans.



Before I answer this, I just want to make it clear here that it is only PT Dirgantara Indonesia that is involved on the program, so Indonesia contribution is solely on design, fuselage production, assembling and integration. Previous deal doesnt make other Indonesian companies specialized in other sector like electronics to be part of the program and thus they cannot get fund from the program if they undergo short of R&D for Indonesian IFX, something that some Indonesian have a bit resentment on it.

Many Korean on FB and Youtube actually said similar thing like you where Indonesian engineers contribution are close to nothing and you said that they are assigned to basic calculation that Korean and LM engineers suggested or in other mean under Korean and LM strict supervision. Well you guys need to give some prove on it since it sounds impossible for Indonesia which have already had many designed experiences to only conduct basic calculation on the program.

Once again, I want to emphasist it more. It is actually weird if Indonesian engineers are only doing basic design calculation since Indonesian engineers dont need KFX/IFX program to do something like that. Why not doing it for Indonesian own program like N 245 and R 80 while in the same time those program have more possibility to get profit and improve our production rate due to much lower investment cost, huge domestic market, and it is 100 % our own program so all production will be conducted in Indonesia Aerospace.

I will provide some respected source from people involves on the program to back my claims. Here I give you some of the examples :

1. Under a deal, Korean only want to get experienced Indonesian engineers whose minimal ages are 35 to participate on the program. So if Indonesia only do minor calculation why Korean forbid Indonesia to send our junior engineers with age around 22-26 years old because fresh graduates with some 1-2 years working experience in Indonesian aerospace I think will be able to do basic calculation under Korean/LM engineers supervision? Here I give the source coming from Deputy Defense Minister own statement:









Apa Kabar Proyek Jet Tempur Canggih RI Bareng Korsel?


Simak penjelasan Wakil Menteri Pertahanan (Wamenhan) Sakti Wahyu Trenggono.




www.cnbcindonesia.com





2. KAI and LM is only involved after 2015 while before that since 2010-December 2012 there was only ADD Korea and PT Dirgantara Indonesia conduct technology development phase. During that time they made many decisions regarding aircraft design and produce C 103 design that become the basic design of KFX/IFX before getting developed further into C 109 design which Indonesian engineers also got involved in it. 

In this phase I believe only very senior engineers involved, including around 30 Indonesian engineers and aerospace experts from Bandung Institute of Technology. Detail design hasnt been started yet so they dont need to employ many designers/engineers at that stage so only few engineers/designers were working at that period.

I will give you some information taken by person involved in the development that suggest despite Korean is a senior partner on this program but the R&D process was conducted quite professionally and democratically where both Korean and Indonesian inputs are taken into consideration and some time Indonesian input that are selected over Korean input because Indonesian engineers can win the argument. I will post the article in my next post in order not to make this individual post too long.

3. Although there is LM participation since 2015 but we know LM is not an angel that will help the program 100 % considering KFX/IFX could be another competitor for F 35. No one wants to reveal all of their secrets, because of that it is crucial to get another opinion from Indonesian designers who also have many design experience (of course Korean also have many experience engineers on design but getting another opinion could be very valuable for the program success).

4. There is a technology where only Indonesian who has the expertise according to Head of the Indonesia Ministry of Defense's Research and Development Agency Anne Kusmayati,

Of the total workers of the two countries involved in the making of KF-X / IF-X, 30 percent are more from Indonesia and the majority of the rest are from South Korea. This is also the reason for making aircraft centered on Sacheon, not in Indonesia.

The proportion of more than 30 percent of Indonesian engineers involved in working on the KF-X / IF-X actually increased from the original amount of 20 percent. The addition of Indonesian workers occurred as time went by cultivation.

"It signifies that Indonesian engineers count on Korea. There is even a work package whose technology is only owned by Indonesians. He is a doctor from ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology), the only one who has inlight design capabilities. So Korea does not take Indonesia lightly, "Anne said.









Jet Tempur RI Buatan 'Sendiri' Mengangkasa 9 Tahun Lagi


Tak lebih dari 10 negara di muka bumi ini yang sungguh-sungguh bisa membuat pesawat tempur. Indonesia kini hendak masuk jajaran elite negara-negara itu.




www.cnnindonesia.com





5. Indonesia also calls very experience Indonesia engineers/designers that have worked in world class aerospace companies like Boeing and Airbus to contribute on KFX/IFX program and I think it is impossible that we call them only to be assigned for basic calculations like what you suggested. Actually I cannot provide the link here since I forgot where I get the information but I will try to search and put the link if I can find it. Just for information that in early 2000, Indonesian aerospace get financial difficulty that make many of the engineers left the company and works in Boeing, Airbus, and others. 

6. Finally I put a senior Indonesian engineer who participates in the program and he is actually KFX/IFX project manager from Indonesia. He has extensive aerodynamic experience since he has worked in PT Dirgantara Indonesia since 1987. He definately has design experiences for CN 235 and NC212 development (CN 235 and NC 212 keeps getting developed until early 2000), N250, N2130, and N219, not to mention Indonesian engineers in PTDI during mid 1980 until 1995 also work in Boeing for some time due to our cooperation with them. 

And it is only one senior engineer and we all dont know how many senior engineers that Indonesia assign on the KFX/IFX program but I believe among 30 Indonesian engineers participating since 2010 could be in majority are very senior ones since that stage is very crucial where the other 80 that comes later IMO are younger generation with 35-40 years old in average (since 35 is the minimum ages required by Korean for Indonesia) although they are all can be considered as senior engineers with 12-18 years of experiences.

So why do we even need to assign senior engineers/designers and even very senior ones for KFX/IFX program if what they do just doing a basic calculation like what you just said ?

You can find him through Google (Linkedin)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heri Yansyah
 *Aerodynamics at Indonesian Aerospace Ltd. *

Bandung Area, West Java, Indonesia
 * Experience *



*Aerodynamics*
Company Name
Indonesian Aerospace Ltd.
* Dates Employed Apr 1987 – Present 
Employment Duration 33 yrs 7 mos *

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos

Translation from Google translate:

February 6, 2014 (Angkasa/Space Magazine)

* KFX / IFX program continued , Government Asked to Immediately Selecting Design*

Korea was once considered Indonesia engineer do not understand about the design of a jet fighter. But the notion was quickly turned , when the Indonesian team describes the design and the various inputs. The Indonesian side also the one who finally managed to convince that the aircraft take-off weight of 50,000 pounds must .

Confirmation of the Parliament of South Korea on the resumption of the program KFX / IFX team warmly welcomed designers from Indonesia. They include asking both governments immediately call the engineers involved in preparing work that has been long overdue. They also want the governments of both countries to make sure one of the two designs that have been produced in the Technology Development phase for cultivation in the next phase .

"Program KFX / IFX is a multi - program years , costly, and involve various sectors and foreign partners. For that there must be a definite declaration on it goes. For Indonesia it is important to determine the financing schemes and their human resources planning, "said Dr Rais Zain, M. Eng , *KFX / IFX Configuration Design Leader *for Angkasa , in late January.

"In the near future Indonesia will also work on the N219 and R - 80. We do not have enough engineers to work three programs, especially KFX / IFX will take place until the 2020s. The government is expected to call home engineers who are now working abroad to come help the regeneration process. Outside there are approximately 200 people . If half of it can be returned to the country, it is enough to help, " added Rais who is also a lecturer at the Faculty of Aerospace Engineering ITB, Bandung.

As reported by the national media, the confirmation of the continuation of the program of making front - liner Korean - Indonesian fighter jets received by the Ministry of Defense on January 3, 2014. Notice is further announced Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro told reporters, Wednesday, January 8, 2014, on the sidelines of Rapim Kemenhan in Jakarta. Explanations related to exposure delivered weapon system procurement plans in the Strategic Plan II, 2015-2019.

The Indonesian government hopes the project of making the 4.5 generation fighter jet could be done because it would be a referral program to remove the dependence of the transfer of technology from other countries. Besides KFX / IFX, Indonesia is also pursuing a program of making submarines , warships, propellants , rockets, and tank size medium. For submarines, Indonesia is also cooperating with the same country.

Superior to the Su - 35Program KFX / IFX was stopped temporarily by Korea's new leader Park Geun - Hye end of 2012 after reviewing the state financially in the country. This prestigious project was worked on since the beginning of 2011, shortly after President Lee Myung - bak and President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono confirmed the bilateral cooperation in the defense field in Jakarta. From the Technology Development Phase that has been completed, a team of scientists has completed a number of conical design that later became two.

The two designs is a model of the stealth fighter jet -winning twin-engine air superiority with horizontally - tails in the back, and the other one is with canards on the front. "Each has consequences different financing and partners. Thus , it must first be decided which one is selected. It is important that when followed, all parties are ready to do it , "said Rais Zain , whose day-to- day lecturer at the Faculty of Engineering, Aerospace Engineering,ITB, Bandung.

As stated Wamenhan Sjafrie, Korean parliament has prepared 20 million U.S. dollars (temporary , Indonesia : $ 5 million) to continue this program in 2015. At that time , the team will go to the Engineering Manufacturing Development Phase. In addition must have a high thrust engine with a power to be able to fight in the air, the aircraft must also have weapons stored in the internal weapons bay , the data - link capable of randomizing communications, advanced radar target voters, and anti - jamming device.

The prototype is expected to finish by the end of the Strategic Plan II . Even if there are things that need to be criticized , it is a matter of operation requirements are much more determined the Korean Air Force . This was inevitable because the Korean bear 80 percent of the funding, and the country actually have a real enemy. This program is targeted to spawn a jet fighter with performance equivalent or superior to the opponent fighter jets which are the Sukhoi Su - 35.

Prerequisites itself dismissed the proposed counter designs KAI ( Korean Aerospace Industrie) recently, rather than to cut development costs are too great. In configuration ( see Space, December 2013 ), looks KFX type E is only one engine powered with weapons outside the radar sweep prone opponent.

*Angkasa examine admiration of ADD ( Agency for Defense Development, Defence Research and Development Agency of Korea ) submitted to the Indonesian engineer team. Initially, the team assumes Korea really had no idea about the design of Indonesian fighter jets. However, the assumption was turned when Indonesian engineers began to describe the design and the various inputs to the design of Korea. The Indonesian side also who ultimately ensure that the aircraft must have a takeoff weight of 50,000 pounds.(A.Darmawan/Angkasa magazine).*

http://www.angkasa.co.id/index.php/...tkan-pemerintah-diminta-segera-memilih-desain

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the most respected aerospace media in Indonesia but unfortunatelly they have erased that 2014 page but I have posted the translation in previous KFX/IFX thread in 2014.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/kf-x...of-south-korea-indonesia-images.182361/page-4


----------



## Indos

RadarGudumluMuhimmat said:


> *It's also interesting to imagine a country that has never even produced mechanical radar could actually absorb such technology.*



I will give you some of Indonesian indigenous radars

*1. Naval Radar made by Indonesian private owned electronics company

The Director is woman actually, Wiwiek Astuti*






*Indonesia equips frigates, corvette with stealth radars
Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
14 April 2014

The Indonesian Navy (Tentara Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Laut: TNI-AL) will equip a total of four Ahmad Yani (Van Speijk)-class guided missile frigates and one Kapitan Pattimura (Parchim I)-class corvette with low-probability-of-intercept (LPI) naval radars.

The radars will be built by Indonesian naval sensor manufacturer PT Infra RCS, company officials told [i>IHS Jane's on 11 April.

The company describes its equipment, the IRCS LPI Radar, as a stealthy sea-based X-band (SBX) radar with frequency modulated continuous wave technology.

"It has a maximum power output of only 10 W, making it quiet and virtually invisible to radar warning receivers on enemy vessels", said Prihatno Susanto, Technical Advisor for the company. "This allows our warships to detect hostile surface combatants without being discovered".

The IRCS LPI Radar has an effective range of 24 n miles and is equipped with tracking software known as Maritime Tracking Aid that allows for automatic radar plotting aid functionality. The system's antenna rotates at 20 rpm and has a gain of about 30dB.

The radar is available as a stand-alone system but can also be integrated with a vessel's electronic chart display and information system (IRCS) and combat management system.

The vessels now equipped with the radar are the guided missile frigates KRI _Ahmad Yani_ and KRI _Abdul Halim_ Perdanakusuma. Both began upgrade works in December 2013. Undergoing the equipment fixture currently are similar vessels in class KRI _Yos Sudarso_ , KRI _Oswald Siahaan_ and the Kapitan Pattimura-class corvette KRI _Sultan Taha_ .

Besides LPI naval radars, the company has also won a contract to equip _Oswald Siahaan_ and _Yos Sudarso_ with naval electronic support measures (ESM) systems that can detect electromagnetic emissions from electronic devices on enemy ships such as radar, communications equipment, jammers and missile targeting systems.

"The IRCS ESM has electronic intelligence (ELINT) capabilities that can pick up signals emitted by hostile warships from up to 90 n miles away via a passive radar", said Susanto. "Once these electromagnetic emissions are detected, a computer software that comes with the system will be able to identify, classify and pin-point the exact location of the source for commanders to take action."
The company has indicated that it is currently embarking on an effort to market both systems internationally.

Indonesia equips frigates, corvette with stealth radars - IHS Jane's 360

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*2. 200 km 2 D surveilance radar developed by state owned electronics company, PT LEN Industry
















Berita | PT Len Industri (Persero)







www.len.co.id





3. Passive radar, Bandung Institute of Technology (ITB)




*









4. SAR Radar Development. There is one Indonesian researcher, Prof Josaphat Tetuko Sumantri get funded by Japan to develop SAR Radar. He is still working for Indonesian government as researcher for SAR radar research in Bandung Institute of Technology and Professor in University of Indonesia. Here is the website and you can see some of his research






Josaphat Microwave Remote Sensing Laboratory (JMRSL) – Josaphat Laboratory







www.jmrsl.jp






*Short Biodata*
Josaphat was born in Bandung, Indonesia in 1970. He received the B.Eng. and M.Eng. Degrees in electrical and computer engineering (subsurface radar systems) from Kanazawa University, Japan, in 1995 and 1997, respectively, and the Ph.D. degree in artificial system sciences (applied radio wave and radar systems) from Chiba University, Japan, in 2002.

From 2002 to 2005, he was a Lecturer (Post-doctoral Fellowship Researcher) with the Center for Frontier Electronics and Photonics, Venture Business Laboratory, Chiba University, Japan. From 2005 to 2013, he was an Associate Professor (permanent staff) with the Center for Environmental Remote Sensing, Chiba University, where he is currently a Full Professor (permanent staff). He is Head Department of Environmental Remote Sensing and Head Division of Earth and Environmental Sciences, Graduate School of Integrated Science and Technology, Chiba University in 2019-2020.

His research interest are theoretically scattering microwave analysis and its applications in microwave (radar) remote sensing, especially synthetic aperture radar and subsurface radar (VLF), including InSAR, DInSAR and PS-InSAR, analysis and design of antennas for mobile satellite communications and microwave sensors, development of microwave sensors, including synthetic aperture radar (SAR) for unmanned aerial vehicle, aircraft, and microsatellite.

He published about 700 journal and conference papers, and tens book related wave analysis, SAR, and small antenna. He is General Chair of The 7th Asia-Pacific Conference on Synthetic Aperture Radar (APSAR 2021) at Bali, Indonesia and more than 200 Invited Talks and Lectures related synthetic aperture radar and its applications. He is co-leader of Working Group on Remote Sensing Instrumentation and Technologies for Unmanned Aerial Vehicles of IEEE GRSS, Technical Committee on Instrumentation and Future Technologies (IFT-TC).

He is member of international and domestic organizations, reviewer of journals, and organizations. He received many awards and research grants related his researches and studies, and promoted many students from around the world.and as a Visiting Lecturer/Professor in many Universities etc.

He manages Josaphat Microwave Remote Sensing Laboratory (JMRSL), Center for Environmental Remote Sensing (CEReS), Chiba University, Japan. His laboratory promotes the education and research to develop the internationally technologies and sciences on microwave remote sensing. He always encourages the undergraduate and postgraduate students to know the microwave phenomenons and to be familiar with the interaction between microwave and natural matters (i.e. vegetation, artificial materials, earth surface, snow), therefore they could develop original methods or sensor during studying in the courses.






Prof. Josaphat Tetuko Sri Sumantyo – Josaphat Microwave Remote Sensing Laboratory (JMRSL)







www.jmrsl.jp

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RadarGudumluMuhimmat

Indos said:


> I will give you some of Indonesian indigenous radars
> 
> *1. Naval Radar made by Indonesian private owned electronics company
> 
> The Director is woman actually, Wiwiek Astuti*
> 
> View attachment 677507
> 
> 
> *Indonesia equips frigates, corvette with stealth radars
> Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
> 14 April 2014
> 
> The Indonesian Navy (Tentara Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Laut: TNI-AL) will equip a total of four Ahmad Yani (Van Speijk)-class guided missile frigates and one Kapitan Pattimura (Parchim I)-class corvette with low-probability-of-intercept (LPI) naval radars.
> 
> The radars will be built by Indonesian naval sensor manufacturer PT Infra RCS, company officials told [i>IHS Jane's on 11 April.
> 
> The company describes its equipment, the IRCS LPI Radar, as a stealthy sea-based X-band (SBX) radar with frequency modulated continuous wave technology.
> 
> "It has a maximum power output of only 10 W, making it quiet and virtually invisible to radar warning receivers on enemy vessels", said Prihatno Susanto, Technical Advisor for the company. "This allows our warships to detect hostile surface combatants without being discovered".
> 
> The IRCS LPI Radar has an effective range of 24 n miles and is equipped with tracking software known as Maritime Tracking Aid that allows for automatic radar plotting aid functionality. The system's antenna rotates at 20 rpm and has a gain of about 30dB.
> 
> The radar is available as a stand-alone system but can also be integrated with a vessel's electronic chart display and information system (IRCS) and combat management system.
> 
> The vessels now equipped with the radar are the guided missile frigates KRI _Ahmad Yani_ and KRI _Abdul Halim_ Perdanakusuma. Both began upgrade works in December 2013. Undergoing the equipment fixture currently are similar vessels in class KRI _Yos Sudarso_ , KRI _Oswald Siahaan_ and the Kapitan Pattimura-class corvette KRI _Sultan Taha_ .
> 
> Besides LPI naval radars, the company has also won a contract to equip _Oswald Siahaan_ and _Yos Sudarso_ with naval electronic support measures (ESM) systems that can detect electromagnetic emissions from electronic devices on enemy ships such as radar, communications equipment, jammers and missile targeting systems.
> 
> "The IRCS ESM has electronic intelligence (ELINT) capabilities that can pick up signals emitted by hostile warships from up to 90 n miles away via a passive radar", said Susanto. "Once these electromagnetic emissions are detected, a computer software that comes with the system will be able to identify, classify and pin-point the exact location of the source for commanders to take action."
> The company has indicated that it is currently embarking on an effort to market both systems internationally.
> 
> Indonesia equips frigates, corvette with stealth radars - IHS Jane's 360
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *2. 200 km 2 D surveilance radar developed by state owned electronics company, PT LEN Industry
> 
> View attachment 677477
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Berita | PT Len Industri (Persero)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.len.co.id
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Passive radar, Bandung Institute of Technology
> 
> View attachment 677478
> *
> View attachment 677480
> 
> View attachment 677482
> 
> 
> 4. SAR Radar Development. There is one Indonesian researcher, Prof Josaphat Tetuko Sumantri get funded by Japan to develop SAR Radar. He is still working for Indonesian government as researcher for SAR radar research in Bandung Institute of Technology and Professor in University of Indonesia. Here is the website and you can see some of his research
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josaphat Microwave Remote Sensing Laboratory (JMRSL) – Josaphat Laboratory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jmrsl.jp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Short Biodata*
> Josaphat was born in Bandung, Indonesia in 1970. He received the B.Eng. and M.Eng. Degrees in electrical and computer engineering (subsurface radar systems) from Kanazawa University, Japan, in 1995 and 1997, respectively, and the Ph.D. degree in artificial system sciences (applied radio wave and radar systems) from Chiba University, Japan, in 2002.
> 
> From 2002 to 2005, he was a Lecturer (Post-doctoral Fellowship Researcher) with the Center for Frontier Electronics and Photonics, Venture Business Laboratory, Chiba University, Japan. From 2005 to 2013, he was an Associate Professor (permanent staff) with the Center for Environmental Remote Sensing, Chiba University, where he is currently a Full Professor (permanent staff). He is Head Department of Environmental Remote Sensing and Head Division of Earth and Environmental Sciences, Graduate School of Integrated Science and Technology, Chiba University in 2019-2020.
> 
> His research interest are theoretically scattering microwave analysis and its applications in microwave (radar) remote sensing, especially synthetic aperture radar and subsurface radar (VLF), including InSAR, DInSAR and PS-InSAR, analysis and design of antennas for mobile satellite communications and microwave sensors, development of microwave sensors, including synthetic aperture radar (SAR) for unmanned aerial vehicle, aircraft, and microsatellite.
> 
> He published about 700 journal and conference papers, and tens book related wave analysis, SAR, and small antenna. He is General Chair of The 7th Asia-Pacific Conference on Synthetic Aperture Radar (APSAR 2021) at Bali, Indonesia and more than 200 Invited Talks and Lectures related synthetic aperture radar and its applications. He is co-leader of Working Group on Remote Sensing Instrumentation and Technologies for Unmanned Aerial Vehicles of IEEE GRSS, Technical Committee on Instrumentation and Future Technologies (IFT-TC).
> 
> He is member of international and domestic organizations, reviewer of journals, and organizations. He received many awards and research grants related his researches and studies, and promoted many students from around the world.and as a Visiting Lecturer/Professor in many Universities etc.
> 
> He manages Josaphat Microwave Remote Sensing Laboratory (JMRSL), Center for Environmental Remote Sensing (CEReS), Chiba University, Japan. His laboratory promotes the education and research to develop the internationally technologies and sciences on microwave remote sensing. He always encourages the undergraduate and postgraduate students to know the microwave phenomenons and to be familiar with the interaction between microwave and natural matters (i.e. vegetation, artificial materials, earth surface, snow), therefore they could develop original methods or sensor during studying in the courses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prof. Josaphat Tetuko Sri Sumantyo – Josaphat Microwave Remote Sensing Laboratory (JMRSL)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jmrsl.jp




I didn't know, I seen the radar photo you shared on another site, but I thought it was ordered from somewhere or ukraine and passed. I mean even any mini-instrument can do the job of making a 2d mechanical radar, which forces are actively used by them, and are there enough data libraries?


----------



## Indos

RadarGudumluMuhimmat said:


> I didn't know, I seen the radar photo you shared on another site, but I thought it was ordered from somewhere or ukraine and passed. I mean even any mini-instrument can do the job of making a 2d mechanical radar, which forces are actively used by them, and are there enough data libraries?



Nope, those radars are indigenous.


Well unfortunately only the naval radar that I posted that have been used by Indonesian navy for our frigates and corvettes. The LEN surveilance radar and Bandung Institute of Technology (ITB) passive radar are both still in prototype stages.

LEN is currently trying to develop 3 D radars since our Armed force look like only want to use 3 D radar so their 2 D radar IMO is only for research purposes. LAPAN (Space Agency) has also developed a weather radar and it is still undergoing certification currently. Other state owned electronics company, PT INTI, also has made a naval and weather radar.

Actually we lacks of radar R&D program although some research and development are still exist.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## dr.knowhow

Indos said:


> Many Korean on FB and Youtube actually said similar thing like you where Indonesian engineers contribution are close to nothing and you said that they are assigned to basic calculation that Korean and LM engineers suggested or in other mean under Korean and LM strict supervision. Well you guys need to give some prove on it since it sounds impossible for Indonesia which have already had many designed experiences to only conduct basic calculation on the program.





Indos said:


> Before I answer this, I just want to make it clear here that it is only PT Dirgantara Indonesia that is involved on the program, so Indonesia contribution is solely on design, fuselage production, assembling and integration. Previous deal doesnt make other Indonesian companies specialized in other sector like electronics to be part of the program and thus they cannot get fund from the program if they undergo short of R&D for Indonesian IFX, something that some Indonesian have a bit resentment on it.
> 
> Many Korean on FB and Youtube actually said similar thing like you where Indonesian engineers contribution are close to nothing and you said that they are assigned to basic calculation that Korean and LM engineers suggested or in other mean under Korean and LM strict supervision. Well you guys need to give some prove on it since it sounds impossible for Indonesia which have already had many designed experiences to only conduct basic calculation on the program.
> 
> Once again, I want to emphasist it more. It is actually weird if Indonesian engineers are only doing basic design calculation since Indonesian engineers dont need KFX/IFX program to do something like that. Why not doing it for Indonesian own program like N 245 and R 80 while in the same time those program have more possibility to get profit and improve our production rate due to much lower investment cost, huge domestic market, and it is 100 % our own program so all production will be conducted in Indonesia Aerospace.
> 
> I will provide some respected source from people involves on the program to back my claims. Here I give you some of the examples :
> 
> 1. Under a deal, Korean only want to get experienced Indonesian engineers whose minimal ages are 35 to participate on the program. So if Indonesia only do minor calculation why Korean forbid Indonesia to send our junior engineers with age around 22-26 years old because fresh graduates with some 1-2 years working experience in Indonesian aerospace I think will be able to do basic calculation under Korean/LM engineers supervision? Here I give the source coming from Deputy Defense Minister own statement:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apa Kabar Proyek Jet Tempur Canggih RI Bareng Korsel?
> 
> 
> Simak penjelasan Wakil Menteri Pertahanan (Wamenhan) Sakti Wahyu Trenggono.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbcindonesia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. KAI and LM is only involved after 2015 while before that since 2010-December 2012 there was only ADD Korea and PT Dirgantara Indonesia conduct technology development phase. During that time they made many decisions regarding aircraft design and produce C 103 design that become the basic design of KFX/IFX before getting developed further into C 109 design which Indonesian engineers also got involved in it.
> 
> In this phase I believe only very senior engineers involved, including around 30 Indonesian engineers and aerospace experts from Bandung Institute of Technology. Detail design hasnt been started yet so they dont need to employ many designers/engineers at that stage so only few engineers/designers were working at that period.
> 
> I will give you some information taken by person involved in the development that suggest despite Korean is a senior partner on this program but the R&D process was conducted quite professionally and democratically where both Korean and Indonesian inputs are taken into consideration and some time Indonesian input that are selected over Korean input because Indonesian engineers can win the argument. I will post the article in my next post in order not to make this individual post too long.
> 
> 3. Although there is LM participation since 2015 but we know LM is not an angel that will help the program 100 % considering KFX/IFX could be another competitor for F 35. No one wants to reveal all of their secrets, because of that it is crucial to get another opinion from Indonesian designers who also have many design experience (of course Korean also have many experience engineers on design but getting another opinion could be very valuable for the program success).
> 
> 4. There is a technology where only Indonesian who has the expertise according to Head of the Indonesia Ministry of Defense's Research and Development Agency Anne Kusmayati,
> 
> Of the total workers of the two countries involved in the making of KF-X / IF-X, 30 percent are more from Indonesia and the majority of the rest are from South Korea. This is also the reason for making aircraft centered on Sacheon, not in Indonesia.
> 
> The proportion of more than 30 percent of Indonesian engineers involved in working on the KF-X / IF-X actually increased from the original amount of 20 percent. The addition of Indonesian workers occurred as time went by cultivation.
> 
> "It signifies that Indonesian engineers count on Korea. There is even a work package whose technology is only owned by Indonesians. He is a doctor from ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology), the only one who has inlight design capabilities. So Korea does not take Indonesia lightly, "Anne said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jet Tempur RI Buatan 'Sendiri' Mengangkasa 9 Tahun Lagi
> 
> 
> Tak lebih dari 10 negara di muka bumi ini yang sungguh-sungguh bisa membuat pesawat tempur. Indonesia kini hendak masuk jajaran elite negara-negara itu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnnindonesia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Indonesia also calls very experience Indonesia engineers/designers that have worked in world class aerospace companies like Boeing and Airbus to contribute on KFX/IFX program and I think it is impossible that we call them only to be assigned for basic calculations like what you suggested. Actually I cannot provide the link here since I forgot where I get the information but I will try to search and put the link if I can find it. Just for information that in early 2000, Indonesian aerospace get financial difficulty that make many of the engineers left the company and works in Boeing, Airbus, and others.
> 
> 6. Finally I put a senior Indonesian engineer who participates in the program and he is actually KFX/IFX project manager from Indonesia. He has extensive aerodynamic experience since he has worked in PT Dirgantara Indonesia since 1987. He definately has design experiences for CN 235 and NC212 development (CN 235 and NC 212 keeps getting developed until early 2000), N250, N2130, and N219, not to mention Indonesian engineers in PTDI during mid 1980 until 1995 also work in Boeing for some time due to our cooperation with them.
> 
> And it is only one senior engineer and we all dont know how many senior engineers that Indonesia assign on the KFX/IFX program but I believe among 30 Indonesian engineers participating since 2010 could be in majority are very senior ones since that stage is very crucial where the other 80 that comes later IMO are younger generation with 35-40 years old in average (since 35 is the minimum ages required by Korean for Indonesia) although they are all can be considered as senior engineers with 12-18 years of experiences.
> 
> So why do we even need to assign senior engineers/designers and even very senior ones for KFX/IFX program if what they do just doing a basic calculation like what you just said ?
> 
> You can find him through Google (Linkedin)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Heri Yansyah
> *Aerodynamics at Indonesian Aerospace Ltd. *
> 
> Bandung Area, West Java, Indonesia
> * Experience *
> 
> View attachment 677439
> 
> *Aerodynamics*
> Company Name
> Indonesian Aerospace Ltd.
> * Dates Employed Apr 1987 – Present
> Employment Duration 33 yrs 7 mos *



First off, thanks again for detailed information from Indonesia that is hard to get as a non-Indonesian. It surely enables me to consider these matters from other perspective.

Talking about the technical involvement of Indonesian engineers, my source - and presumably other Koreans citing such information in other websites - are from multiple KAI and ADD insiders. What we are being told is that the team of Indonesian engineers are working almost completely separate from the Korean-LM TAC design team and are assigned to specific calculations and problem solving for limited field of research, which I suspect are structural and subsonic aerodynamics analysis.

Then again here you are giving a way more detailed and credible sources, so there is a noticeable amount of possibility of myself standing corrected and in fact Indonesian engineers could be contributing for wider field of engineering such as aircraft production or system integration.

Still there are questions to be asked. Yes, Indonesia does have a longer history of designing and producing an aircraft domestically but it was not a high-agility supersonic aircraft that Indonesia was busy with. Arguably Korea would eventually have more experience regarding such. You yourself are mentioning that there was a discontinuation of generational transition of expertise during the 2000s, which I presume would be able to be traced back to the Asian financial crisis in the late 90s.

So Korea has more experience in designing a high maneuverability, supersonic aircraft with weapons and sensory system integration. The MC, FCC, NDI flight model and most of the other flight control and system integration electronics are a continuation from the experience gained from the KT-X program that has been developed and are being developed by the Korean engineers with some help from LM. On top of that there was no discontinuation of knowledge or know-how on the Korean side of things.

I really can't think of much when it comes to asking the question of what Indonesian engineers could be contributing more on when such a large part of KF-X program are either a continuation from the technologies developed from the KT-X program or based on the technologies gained through ToT during the F-X program.

Overall this is exactly that kind of topic where we would not be given any clear cut answers unless Indonesia do exit the program. Most of the technology involved are highly confidential thus the working environment and the people in the program are not those who are easy to reach and are under control of the controlling bodies. All we are getting are those interviews that are mostly unilateral and focused on either the Indonesian side of matters or the Korean side of matters which makes it impossible for us to judge solely based on these sources.

Such as


> There is even a work package whose technology is only owned by Indonesians. He is a doctor from ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology), the only one who has inlight design capabilities.


What should this technology even be? How significant is this technology in the first place? "Korea not taking Indonesia lightly" is the perspective of the Indonesian themselves which hardly tells much about what the Korean engineers actually think.

Other example would be


> *Angkasa examine admiration of ADD ( Agency for Defense Development, Defence Research and Development Agency of Korea ) submitted to the Indonesian engineer team. Initially, the team assumes Korea really had no idea about the design of Indonesian fighter jets. However, the assumption was turned when Indonesian engineers began to describe the design and the various inputs to the design of Korea. The Indonesian side also who ultimately ensure that the aircraft must have a takeoff weight of 50,000 pounds.(A.Darmawan/Angkasa magazine).*


Here the Indonesian involvement during the design definition phase is mentioned as an important contribution in the program but importance of this contribution aside, it unfortunately doesn't tell much about the technological aspects of the of the Indonesian involvement but has more to do with how Indonesia is a partner of the program. As partner of the KF-X/IF-X program Indonesia obviously and rightfully could require and demand certain designs of the aircraft to suit its needs. The mass of the aircraft could be just one of those as Indonesia would obviously want a bigger internal fuel tank which is integral to aircraft mass.

All in all reading all your sources, it seems likely that what you are suggesting and mentioning are true, that there are in fact senior Indonesian engineers who are providing more input than what Koreans originally anticipated. On the flipside I am still considering what I have read from the KAI insiders at least partially true if not mostly true and will at least retain part of my doubts considering the Indonesian involvement.

Last but not least, mechanical design is just one part of the fundamentals of a fighter jet. We all know and you are already mentioning yourself that the other fundamental part of a fighter jet, which arguably has become even more important than the mechanical design of the fuselage itself, most of if not all the avionics, are either solely being developed by the Korean engineers, with or without foreign assistance or just procured straight away from foreign suppliers. Having close to zero contribution on these side of developments speaks a lot.

So that is my take regarding the technical contribution of Indonesian engineers in the KF-X/IF-X program.

Back to the topic of renegotiation, I still stand firm on what I have written in the previous post.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

dr.knowhow said:


> First off, thanks again for detailed information from Indonesia that is hard to get as a non-Indonesian. It surely enables me to consider these matters from other perspective.
> 
> Talking about the technical involvement of Indonesian engineers, my source - and presumably other Koreans citing such information in other websites - are from multiple KAI and ADD insiders. What we are being told is that the team of Indonesian engineers are working almost completely separate from the Korean-LM TAC design team and are assigned to specific calculations and problem solving for limited field of research, which I suspect are structural and subsonic aerodynamics analysis.
> 
> Then again here you are giving a way more detailed and credible sources, so there is a noticeable amount of possibility of myself standing corrected and in fact Indonesian engineers could be contributing for wider field of engineering such as aircraft production or system integration.
> 
> Still there are questions to be asked. Yes, Indonesia does have a longer history of designing and producing an aircraft domestically but it was not a high-agility supersonic aircraft that Indonesia was busy with. Arguably Korea would eventually have more experience regarding such. You yourself are mentioning that there was a discontinuation of generational transition of expertise during the 2000s, which I presume would be able to be traced back to the Asian financial crisis in the late 90s.
> 
> So Korea has more experience in designing a high maneuverability, supersonic aircraft with weapons and sensory system integration. The MC, FCC, NDI flight model and most of the other flight control and system integration electronics are a continuation from the experience gained from the KT-X program that has been developed and are being developed by the Korean engineers with some help from LM. On top of that there was no discontinuation of knowledge or know-how on the Korean side of things.
> 
> I really can't think of much when it comes to asking the question of what Indonesian engineers could be contributing more on when such a large part of KF-X program are either a continuation from the technologies developed from the KT-X program or based on the technologies gained through ToT during the F-X program.
> 
> Overall this is exactly that kind of topic where we would not be given any clear cut answers unless Indonesia do exit the program. Most of the technology involved are highly confidential thus the working environment and the people in the program are not those who are easy to reach and are under control of the controlling bodies. All we are getting are those interviews that are mostly unilateral and focused on either the Indonesian side of matters or the Korean side of matters which makes it impossible for us to judge solely based on these sources.
> 
> Such as
> 
> What should this technology even be? How significant is this technology in the first place? "Korea not taking Indonesia lightly" is the perspective of the Indonesian themselves which hardly tells much about what the Korean engineers actually think.
> 
> Other example would be
> 
> Here the Indonesian involvement during the design definition phase is mentioned as an important contribution in the program but importance of this contribution aside, it unfortunately doesn't tell much about the technological aspects of the of the Indonesian involvement but has more to do with how Indonesia is a partner of the program. As partner of the KF-X/IF-X program Indonesia obviously and rightfully could require and demand certain designs of the aircraft to suit its needs. The mass of the aircraft could be just one of those as Indonesia would obviously want a bigger internal fuel tank which is integral to aircraft mass.
> 
> All in all reading all your sources, it seems likely that what you are suggesting and mentioning are true, that there are in fact senior Indonesian engineers who are providing more input than what Koreans originally anticipated. On the flipside I am still considering what I have read from the KAI insiders at least partially true if not mostly true and will at least retain part of my doubts considering the Indonesian involvement.
> 
> Last but not least, mechanical design is just one part of the fundamentals of a fighter jet. We all know and you are already mentioning yourself that the other fundamental part of a fighter jet, which arguably has become even more important than the mechanical design of the fuselage itself, most of if not all the avionics, are either solely being developed by the Korean engineers, with or without foreign assistance or just procured straight away from foreign suppliers. Having close to zero contribution on these side of developments speaks a lot.
> 
> So that is my take regarding the technical contribution of Indonesian engineers in the KF-X/IF-X program.
> 
> Back to the topic of renegotiation, I still stand firm on what I have written in the previous post.



Your welcome mate, I also learn a lot from your knowledge.

Yup during the year of 2000-2005 we were getting trouble since IMF force us to shutdown N 2130 and N 250 program and stop providing fund to Indonesia Aerospace that let many engineers left the companies because there were massive lay off going on. In the past there were about 10.000 people working in Indonesian Aerospace (Dirgantara Indonesia) but currently we only have around 4000 people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_Aerospace

I believe there is still a continuation of knowledge and experiences as many senior engineers are still working for Dirgantara Indonesia where the example is Heri Yansah as KFX/IFX project manager for Indonesian side who has been working in Dirgantara Indonesia since 1987. Some very senior ex engineers I believe go to universities like Dr Rais Zain, M. Eng, KFX/IFX configuration design leader. From the title that he has it is clear that he leads the configuration design on the program and not really surprising if we see his academic title and probably he was former Dirgantara Indonesia engineers as well.

It is why N 219 project is very essential for Indonesia Aerospace since it becomes the source of regeneration where very senior engineers transfer their knowledge and experience to the fresh graduates engineers during that time. I read the story from Dirgantara Indonesia engineers where at that time every 1 senior engineer is accompanied with 4 junior engineers during the design process.

I also have said that some ex-engineers who have worked in Boeing and others are also called for KFX/IFX program but I dont remember where I get the information but I will try to give the link if I can find it. And I believe it is not difficult to call ex Indonesian aerospace engineers working abroad to work for KFX/IFX program due to the salary I believe is quite comparable to their previous work and there is also a sense of nationalism and maybe religious reason (some sorth of Jihad) to contribute for this very interesting program.

Actually there is a good news that I read recently from Dirgantara official saying that many ex Dirgantara Indonesia (DI) Engineers working outside (around 200 engineers) have already come back and currently work for the company. As I said in other post previously that Indonesian tend to come back to their country and this is why few Indonesian become immigrant in other country. Their come back IMO is also become the other reason of why N 245 project is now taken more seriously.

DI official said that as soon as N 219 get type certificate, they will start N 245 program. If it is really indeed realized so it could be the next transfer of knowledge and experience process after N 219 project, particularly to gain the knowledge and experience from those ex DI engineers previously working abroad for 15-20 years.

For your information, Indonesia is currently working for our aerospace industry road map for 2020-2045 time frame. So there is grand design that we try to make. I wonder though whether jet fighter development will still be part of it. It will then IMO depend on the fate of KFX/IFX program renegotiation.

There is chance IMO that Indonesia and Korea will once again cooperate for jet fighter/drone development in the future if we some how can solve our differences in current KFX/IFX program. Let say for drone is 2035 and for 6 generation fighter jet in 2040 (in the assumption that manned fighter jet is still needed).

If that is true, considering to Indonesia projected economic power at that time, I believe it would possibly be 50:50 scheme. Indonesia will also be very interested on the program if Korea can successfully produce their own engine for that potential future project. It is because many of Indonesian are very worry about the western input since we have a history of US and British weapon embargo. So I would like to ask you this question, do you think in the period of 2035 Korean can produce competitive indigenous drone engine and 2040 for competitive jet engine for fighter jet ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## dr.knowhow

Indos said:


> Your welcome mate, I also learn a lot from your knowledge.
> 
> Yup during the year of 2000-2005 we were getting trouble since IMF force us to shutdown N 2130 and N 250 program and stop providing fund to Indonesia Aerospace that let many engineers left the companies because there were massive lay off going on. In the past there were about 10.000 people working in Indonesian Aerospace (Dirgantara Indonesia) but currently we only have around 4000 people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_Aerospace
> 
> I believe there is still a continuation of knowledge and experiences as many senior engineers are still working for Dirgantara Indonesia where the example is Heri Yansah as KFX/IFX project manager for Indonesian side who has been working in Dirgantara Indonesia since 1987. Some very senior ex engineers I believe go to universities like Dr Rais Zain, M. Eng, KFX/IFX configuration design leader. From the title that he has it is clear that he leads the configuration design on the program and not really surprising if we see his academic title and probably he was former Dirgantara Indonesia engineers as well.
> 
> It is why N 219 project is very essential for Indonesia Aerospace since it becomes the source of regeneration where very senior engineers transfer their knowledge and experience to the fresh graduates engineers during that time. I read the story from Dirgantara Indonesia engineers where at that time every 1 senior engineer is accompanied with 4 junior engineers during the design process.
> 
> I also have said that some ex-engineers who have worked in Boeing and others are also called for KFX/IFX program but I dont remember where I get the information but I will try to give the link if I can find it. And I believe it is not difficult to call ex Indonesian aerospace engineers working abroad to work for KFX/IFX program due to the salary I believe is quite comparable to their previous work and there is also a sense of nationalism and maybe religious reason (some sorth of Jihad) to contribute for this very interesting program.
> 
> Actually there is a good news that I read recently from Dirgantara official saying that many ex Dirgantara Indonesia (DI) Engineers working outside (around 200 engineers) have already come back and currently work for the company. As I said in other post previously that Indonesian tend to come back to their country and this is why few Indonesian become immigrant in other country. Their come back IMO is also become the other reason of why N 245 project is now taken more seriously.
> 
> DI official said that as soon as N 219 get type certificate, they will start N 245 program. If it is really indeed realized so it could be the next transfer of knowledge and experience process after N 219 project, particularly to gain the knowledge and experience from those ex DI engineers previously working abroad for 15-20 years.
> 
> For your information, Indonesia is currently working for our aerospace industry road map for 2020-2045 time frame. So there is grand design that we try to make. I wonder though whether jet fighter development will still be part of it. It will then IMO depend on the fate of KFX/IFX program renegotiation.
> 
> There is chance IMO that Indonesia and Korea will once again cooperate for jet fighter/drone development in the future if we some how can solve our differences in current KFX/IFX program. Let say for drone is 2035 and for 6 generation fighter jet in 2040 (in the assumption that manned fighter jet is still needed).
> 
> If that is true, considering to Indonesia projected economic power at that time, I believe it would possibly be 50:50 scheme. Indonesia will also be very interested on the program if Korea can successfully produce their own engine for that potential future project. It is because many of Indonesian are very worry about the western input since we have a history of US and British weapon embargo. So I would like to ask you this question, do you think in the period of 2035 Korean can produce competitive indigenous drone engine and 2040 for competitive jet engine for fighter jet ?



It is not uncommon for patriotic figures to come back to their homeland to help their own people out through difficult times. It was the case in almost every far east industrial nations during the 20th century and I guess it is the same story for Indonesia as well. I wouldn't place any blame to those who chose to immigrate to foreign countries seeking better life or other kind of ambition because I could understand them too well, though from the same stand point we could praise those who refuse the luxury but come back to promote the common good of their own people. Indonesia is lucky to have those engineers who love and have passion in their own country.

Talking about the Indonesian road map for their future aerospace industry, I personally think having a fighter jet program is a huge incentive. There are clearly some convergence between large subsonic aircraft and agile supersonic aircraft but they are in core a completely different machines and Indonesia has a lot to gain alone from taking part in designing an airframe that can pull out such maneuvers, sustain and endure the sheer amount of stress. That was in fact exactly the case when the Koreans developed the T-50. It is always described as such a quantum leap and a huge boost of confidence going into any kind of aerospace projects then after, let alone is the basis of basically every single aerospace projects that has followed it and are progressing atm. Even the KUH program which is a helicopter development program has a lot of its technology to be traced back to KT-X program.

Of course it would be hard to expect the similar magnitude of ripple effect on the Indonesian side of things considering the lack of Indonesian avionics but I do think that the IF-X fighters could pave the way for any future domestic Indonesian avionics to be vastly fast tracked and provide a range of opportunities other countries would not have not having their own fighter jet. The US has never allowed any foreign avionics to be integrated into their aircraft unless its either Israel or special cases like Japan's FS-X that led to F-2 which is an indigenous Japanese fighter on its own right considering the amount of Japanese input into the project leaving the fuselage aside. Same could be said about the European aircrafts as well. You either pay a hefty amount of money to get their old design and develop your own aircraft based on their aircraft with clear limitations or DIY from the ground up. As long as Indonesia stick to the project and the agreements, they would be able to retain their leverage.



> If that is true, considering to Indonesia projected economic power at that time, I believe it would possibly be 50:50 scheme. Indonesia will also be very interested on the program if Korea can successfully produce their own engine for that potential future project. It is because many of Indonesian are very worry about the western input since we have a history of US and British weapon embargo. So I would like to ask you this question, do you think in the period of 2035 Korean can produce competitive indigenous drone engine and 2040 for competitive jet engine for fighter jet ?



Actually, the flying wing UAV and UCAV development has been going on since quite a few years now and they have already flown the prototype of the aircraft.






(photo courtesy of m.blog.naver.com/rgm84d, official blog of Military Review, a Korean defense magazine)

Above is the picture made public by the ADD I think this year. Being benchmarked are obviously other stealthy flying wing UAVs and UCAVs from the US and Europe such as X-45 or Taranis and Neuron. The project itself was highly confidential so nothing much was being revealed but as the KF-X program progressed along with other R&D programs related to the stealth UCAV, I guess the ADD and the ROKA decided that it is okay to give out some infos to the public.

Talking about the indigenous turbofan engines, there is also a project going on since the mid 2010s, which is aimed for a development of 5,500 pounds thrust low-bypass turbofan and 8,000~10,000 pounds thrust high-bypass turbofan engine scheduled for completion by 2025. So you wouldn't need to wait for an extra decade to get a Korean turbofan engine good enough for a UCAV. Things are progressing in quite a speed in Korea. The basis of the turbofan technology itself originates from the development of turbojet engine that powers C-Star ASM and project that followed which led to another jet engine that is powering the Hyunmoo-III cruise missile. In the beginning the Korean got their help from France and Ukraine during the 80s and 90s then also producing various kinds of gas turbine engines domestically for the ROKAF and ROKN paved the way for accumulation of know-how in developing and manufacturing a gas turbine.

Although separate from Hanhwa Aerospace who are the sole contractor of gas turbine engines being use and are being developed for the ROKA, there are other companies like Doosan who've recently developed a gas turbine for powerplants, which there are only a handful of countries that develop and manufacture around the world. This along with the various kind of industrial and academic clusters in Korea such as the the research cluster in Daejeon or institutes that govern these technologies in likes of Korea Institute of Material Science which connects the engineers within the country are clearly resulting in a synergy in gas turbine development.

I still wouldn't be so sure about if Korea would be able to develop a fighter jet class engine in the 2040 because that is a full 2 decades away from now, which for me is almost impossible to guess what would then be the standard for a state of the art fighter jet engine. We are already seeing trends like variable bypass ratio, significantly more capacity of generating electricity for all the new sensory suite and directed energy weapons, higher performance throughout the whole flight envelope and of course better fuel economy and thrust but who knows what would happen. Maybe duel mode turbofan-ramjets would be the new standard . Those things aside, continuing the development of the turbofan engines, I think Korea could be able to emerge as a new supplier of niche market turbofan engines for a more competitive price when any emerging nations are willing to develop a new UAV or such. It would for example provide Indonesia another option on top of European and American products if they are willing to develop their own UAV and are searching for an engine. There are of course less concerns over embargo as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

dr.knowhow said:


> Talking about the Indonesian road map for their future aerospace industry, I personally think having a fighter jet program is a huge incentive. There are clearly some convergence between large subsonic aircraft and agile supersonic aircraft but they are in core a completely different machines and Indonesia has a lot to gain alone from taking part in designing an airframe that can pull out such maneuvers, sustain and endure the sheer amount of stress. That was in fact exactly the case when the Koreans developed the T-50. It is always described as such a quantum leap and a huge boost of confidence going into any kind of aerospace projects then after, let alone is the basis of basically every single aerospace projects that has followed it and are progressing atm. Even the KUH program which is a helicopter development program has a lot of its technology to be traced back to KT-X program.



Yup, actually the fact that Indonesia has joined KFX/IFX program since 2009 shows that during SBY administration fighter jet development is indeed considered as some thing important for our aerospace industry development. I also hope fighter jet development is included in our aerospace grand design and this grand design IMO will affect KFX/IFX renegotiation as well. According to me it is indeed crucial to have the ability and experience on this field and particularly it is inline with Indonesia greater ambition in future geopolitics and industrialization. Not to mention defense equipment embargo history that we have that should motivate Indonesia to increase its defense industry sophistication step by step. 

Actually the thinking has been going on since the late 1980's where Indonesia aerospace at that time get F16 sales offset to produce F 16 wings in Indonesian aerospace facility. The ambition then get bigger with the previous plan to manufacture Hawk 100/200 in the country with promise to buy around 80 Hawk 100/200, but this plan didnt materialize due to Asian Financial Crisis that started in 1997 that make Indonesia reduce the number into 32 Hawk where all planes were produced in Britain.

I would like to give an interesting story related about Indonesian effort to do some sort of research on Stealth fighter jet outside KFX/IFX program. The research started after Korea delayed the KFX/IFX program for two years (2013-2014) before starting it again in 2015.

There is some worried IMO among Indonesian planner that KFX/IFX program will be stopped by Korean parliament or Korean chose single engine KFX which is actually a KAI proposal which doesnt fit with Indonesia requirement and throw away C 103 double engine design made by ADD Korea and Dirgantara Indonesia. There is some sort of idea at that time that Indonesia has to do it alone and it is somehow appear on LFX (Lapan Fighter Experiment) program that going on at least about less than 2 years (2013-2014). Although the program itself is previously intended to support KFX/IFX program. The program is stopped after KFX/IFX program is started again.

Lapan (Indonesia Space Agency) has some kind of connection with Dirgantara Indonesia (DI) in term of funding and research although DI engineers are much more experience and quite many in number compared to Lapan researchers. Despite so, at least as a research agency that has aerospace division in it the agency could be tasked to research whether Indonesia has the adequate resources to do fighter development program alone if KFX/IFX program is cancelled by Korean. There is also some sorth of cooperation with Bandung Institute of Technology and DI according to Lapan official involved in the program.

This is actually the second research program in Lapan for fighter jet research and it can be easily known by the code name of LFX 2

LFX (Lapan Fighter Experiment)

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## RadarGudumluMuhimmat

Keep arguing, at least we're learning something. If you had so much information, why didn't you share it until now.


----------



## Indos

Based on latest prototype revelation, some one make KFX/IFX prototype photoshop

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Indos

There is possibility the program competitor launch a PR black campaign against KFX/IFX program. I just see latest Republika news only bring some ones opposing KFX/IFX program. Jakarta Post also made news about the program using misleading data about the cost Indonesia should pay.

Luckily other media reporters seems to me cannot be bribed and relatively quite fair. Other thing I want to say is that it is not our finance ministry who was responsible to latest Indonesian arrears in September, but our defense ministry. This is revealed by Finance Ministry official who was asked by the media about the reason of why Indonesia didnt pay the latest payment in last September.

It has been 2 years and the year 2020 is about to pass but the renegotiation is still continuing, I hope the two parties can make a compromise to each other so a deal can be made. This program can be the way to tighten friendship between this two nations and open future collaboration between two nations in strategic industries and R&D. In people to people relationship, it should make us get closer to each other as well. Knowing that we are a strategic partner to each other.

It is a pity if at the end this program end up separating the two nations, sacrificing our close relation that we have nurtured for decades, something that I think has started happening when Korean and Indonesian netizen talks about the program over the internet, particularly after the renegotiation is started and Indonesian government started abandoning their financial responsibility since 2017.


----------



## SgtGungHo

It is simple at the end. Indonesia either has to honor the initial contract and pay up the promised contribution in cash (no barter deals) & receive appropriate ToT for the money that they pay and acquire the number of IF-X that Indonesia signed up for or Indonesia let herself out of the joint program as the Korean government won't deliever parts for a prototype that is reserved for Indonesia.

And sadly I don't think the Indonesian government is interested in honoring the contract. As I said before this is like watching a trainwreck in slow motion. Korea will compete the project by itself and Indonesia will purchase Eurofighter and some other alternatives which are honstly more suitable for what they need.


----------



## Indos

SgtGungHo said:


> It is simple at the end. Indonesia either has to honor the initial contract and pay up the promised contribution in cash (no barter deals) & receive appropriate ToT for the money that they pay and acquire the number of IF-X that Indonesia signed up for or Indonesia let herself out of the joint program as the Korean government won't deliever parts for a prototype that is reserved for Indonesia.
> 
> And sadly I don't think the Indonesian government is interested in honoring the contract. As I said before this is like watching a trainwreck in slow motion. Korea will compete the project by itself and Indonesia will purchase Eurofighter and some other alternatives which are honstly more suitable for what they need.



The barter scheme is not the main demand of Indonesia delegation but there is some reason behind that demand. I will try to explain based on my analysis on the situation during that time.

The situation which prompted Indonesia to do renegotiation is an unprecedented increase in trade deficit during 2018 that worried Indonesia economic team, mainly because it affected our currency value badly during that period.

Jokowi is seen by many analyst as the President with focus is in economy, so it is understandable if he started to renegotiate KFX/IFX program and ask for some sort of relief in payment due to that economic problem. Some people inside Jokowi ring who oppose the program since the beginning IMO then take advantage of the situation and tried to give ridiculous input like barter, lengthening the payment period, and decreasing the promised IFX acquisition of 48 planes into just 16 after they failed to shutdown the program using argument during cabinet meeting.

Former Investment Minister, Thomas Lembong, I suspect, is one of them. He is US educated and spend much of his carrier there. Quite weird when he talked about KFX/IFX program on the official investment ministry website and there he talked about decreasing IFX acquisition number into ridiculous 16 planes and so on. Fortunately he has been replaced by another man in Jokowi second term (2019 November-2024 November).

Some Indonesian look like want the nation to rely on US forever and buy US weapon as much as possible, down playing the embargo history and so on, but they are very minority in our society. I might know the reason but I wouldnt disclose it here, quite a sensitive topic I would say.

*My advice to Jokowi*

Jokowi then should be very careful in listening to people on his own circle who oppose the program and suggesting him with ridiculous demands since it is just a way to make Indonesia leave the program, not a genuine suggestion IMO that focuses on the nation benefit, but merely on the benefit of their own personal and group agenda.

This program of course still uses US engine, but this is our first step to be independent on this very strategic military equipment. The journey is still quite long, but if we dont take the first step we will be just dependent forever.

Large majority of Indonesian actually support the program and you can witness it by reading the Youtube comment section of the news (CNBC) talking about the KFX/IFX program that I posted in last September (previous page). There are around 100.000 viewers there and, once again, you can check on their comments to prove my words. 






*Current renegotiation*

Talking about the current renegotiation, the barter scheme I believe has been erased from Indonesian demands. The main focus now is on decreasing our financial portion in the program into 15 %, we can actually see it by the latest statement of defense ministry spoke person that I also have posted in previous page. TOT issue maybe still exist as well. These are reasonable points that IMO should make Korean negotiator accept it.

Especially by considering there is a law in Indonesia since 2012 that prevent our military to buy foreign military equipment that can be produced in the country. So it makes total possible KFX/IFX that will be bought by Indonesia could be more than 50, possibly 150-200 planes, particularly if the program can satisfy our related industry. This is why there is no CN 235 or NC 212 competitor that are bought by our military. Buying our own made weapon is also politically popular at home.

Just thinking if Indonesia economy can reach 2 trillion USD GDP in 2030 as projected by recent western institution projection with reasonable basis of 5-6 percent economic growth for the next 10 years. There is no guarantee of course, but so far we can continue growing at that speed for the last 20 years, AlhamduliLLAH. Tax ratio is possibly higher as well at time that could make our defense budget reach at least 20 billion USD a year inshaAllah, doubling current figure.

Buying proven foreign planes until 100-200 will likely get TOT, offset, and assembling as well. Just look on how Korean can get meaningful TOT from buying just around 48 F35 and also Brazil deal with Dassault to produce 36 Rafale that they bough. And here we are talking about the program where Indonesia put financial contribution and experience human resources on it (that also make Indonesia sacrifice his own aerospace program), beside promise to buy up to 50 planes with huge possibility to buy until 200 planes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

You can see the law here, sorry because it is in Indonesian language

file:///C:/Users/HPPAVI~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Undang-Undang-tahun-2012-16-12.pdf

Some one copy paste it in this website:





__





UU 16 tahun 2012 tentang Industri Pertahanan


UU 16 tahun 2012 tentang Industri Pertahanan menjelaskan bahwa Industri Pertahanan adalah industri nasional yang terdiri atas badan usaha milik negara dan badan usaha milik swasta baik secara sendiri maupun berkelompok yang ditetapkan oleh pemerintah untuk sebagian atau seluruhnya menghasilkan...




www.jogloabang.com






Translation on the procurement detail 

Part Seven

Procurement, Maintenance and Repair
Defense and Security Equipment Tools
Art 43

*Users are required to use domestically produced Defense and Security Equipment Tools.
Users are required to carry out maintenance and repair of the domestic Defense and Security Equipment Tools.*

In the event that the domestic Defense and Security Equipment Tool as referred to in paragraph (1) has not been fulfilled by the Defense Industry, the Defense Industry User can propose to KKIP to use foreign products by procuring it through direct inter-governmental processes or to manufacturers.
In terms of national strategic interests, the DPR provides considerations in the procurement of certain Defense and Security Equipment Tools in accordance with the foreign policy implemented by the Government.

The procurement of the foreign product Defense and Security Equipment Tool as referred to in paragraph (3) must meet the following requirements:

Defense and Security Equipment Tools have not or cannot be made domestically;
include the participation of the Defense Industry;
obligation to transfer technology;
guarantee that there is no potential embargo, political conditionality and barriers to the use of Defense and Security Equipment Tools in an effort to defend the sovereignty of the country, the territorial integrity of the Unitary State of the Republic of Indonesia, and the safety of the entire nation from threats and disturbances to the integrity of the nation and state;
there is trade return, local content and / or offset of at least 85% (eighty five percent);
local content and / or offset as referred to in letter e shall be at least 35% (thirty five percent) with an increase of 10% (ten percent) every 5 (five) years; and
the enforcement of offsets is no later than 18 (eighteen) months after this Law is promulgated.

(4) The participation of the Defense Industry as referred to in paragraph (5) letter b is a purchase with a trade reward mechanism, including an offset.
The coordination of the procurement of the Defense and Security Equipment Tool is carried out based on the provisions of the KKIP as referred to in paragraph (3).
Based on operational needs, Users and the Defense Industry can jointly formulate technical specifications for the Defense and Security Equipment Tool.
(2) Further provisions regarding the details and mechanism of trade returns, including offsets as referred to in paragraph (6) shall be regulated in a Government Regulation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

The reason Korean need to build their own fighter than just relying on US fighters. These coming from Korean Air Force ex pilot/General. One main reason is that it will be cheaper and easier to maintain our own fighter. In the time of war, this is very crucial. Some time he said Korean must delay the maintenance for about six month or even up to one year due to their dependency on US manufacturer.

Indonesian Aerospace official also said previously in other media that Indonesia will be much easier to upgrade the plane if KFX/IFX become our back bone fighter and he said this will give some sort of adventage for our Air Force that can increase our deterrent capability.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> The main focus now is on decreasing our financial portion in the program into 15 %, we can actually see it by the latest statement of defense ministry spoke person that I also have posted in previous page. TOT issue maybe still exist as well. These are reasonable points that IMO should make Korean negotiator accept it.



They are not reasonable points. There is no reason for South Korea to make such concessions wher there is nothing in return from Indoensia. Reduction in the contribution towards the joint program from 20% to 15% is financially significant and Indonesia can't have more ToT than it was by constributing financially less to the program. That's insane.

Again, the choice is clear and simple either Indonesia honors the original contract or doesn't.

I am sorry to see that the Indonesian government has chosen this course of action, but I am honestly happy for them of leaving the program. There are better alternatives out there for Indonesia and that's the reason why the country is actively looking for fighter jets such as F-16V, F-35A, Typhoon and more.


----------



## OppositeDay

Indos said:


> The reason Korean need to build their own fighter than just relying on US fighters. These coming from Korean Air Force ex pilot/General. One main reason is that it will be cheaper and easier to maintain our own fighter. In the time of war, this is very crucial. Some time he said Korean must delay the maintenance for about six month or even up to one year due to their dependency on US manufacturer.
> 
> Indonesian Aerospace official also said previously in other media that Indonesia will be much easier to upgrade the plane if KFX/IFX become our back bone fighter and he said this will give some sort of adventage for our Air Force that can increase our deterrent capability.



In the time of war South Korea won't even have command over its own military. I'm sure Americans are going to bring in the maintenance once a war breaks out.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

KFX/IFX mock up seen in DX 2020 event in Seoul, South Korea. The defense exibition event was held in 18-20 November 2020.


----------



## Indos

*Some benefit of KFX/IFX program beyond aerospace sector for Indonesia*


1. KFX/IFX program IMO is a good program to improve our national brand image that can later help many Indonesian local company to penetrate export market for high tech industrial product and modern services.

Modern service industry that for developing nation is currently lead by Indian should also be aimed by Indonesian local company and they should start to aim for export market.

2. KFX/IFX program can also be good to build confidence among our people and younger generation, even my 10 years old niece has known about the project and I believe this can help his confidence further to achieve higher dream. He also can speak English quite good and use the language among his peers in the complex. 50 % kids at his ages has used English during conversation between them in his neigborhood. So just think what would be the effect if that potential generation with all of their capabilities and internet infrastructure get confident from the fact that their nation is building 5 generation fighter with South Korea.

3. The program will improve nation standing/image and I think it is quite comparable like hosting an Olympic Games despite we only become junior partner of the program.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Comparing it with CN 235 program in late 1970's*

Talking about the cost, I believe the program can be quite comparable or maybe much less expensive than CN 235 program during late 1970's if we compare it with Indonesian GDP at that time. I talk about total development cost relative to GDP or government total spending.

So KFX/IFX program is like CN 235 program during late 1970's and too bad we dont know how much the cost is since CN 235 program cost so far is not available for public knowledge. At that time we also contribute 50 % of development cost while for KFX/IFX program it is only 20 %.

CN 235 program IMO is also very instrumental in building our confidence during that time that lead to our nation success in building high tech home grown industry relative to nations in our region (South East Asia) despite our low R&D budget.

So KFX/IFX program can become our other steroid to pursuit more development in high tech industry and the effect could be felt until 40 years from now like how CN 235 program has done since late 1970s until 2020.

This mentality thing is very important, it is like how determinant Jhon F. Kennedy is to bring man to the moon during cold war with USSR. That program thus help improving confidence among baby boomers despite the lead engineers at that time is German immigrant.

Jokowi has said previously about mental revolution (revolusi mental) during his first term administration and this program IMO can help him to achieve such goal perfectly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> *Some benefit of KFX/IFX program beyond aerospace sector for Indonesia*
> 
> 
> 1. KFX/IFX program IMO is a good program to improve our national brand image that can later help many Indonesian local company to penetrate export market for high tech industrial product and modern services.
> 
> Modern service industry that for developing nation is currently lead by Indian should also be aimed by Indonesian local company and they should start to aim for export market.
> 
> 2. KFX/IFX program can also be good to build confidence among our people and younger generation, even my 10 years old niece has known about the project and I believe this can help his confidence further to achieve higher dream. He also can speak English quite good and use the language among his peers in the complex. 50 % kids at his ages has used English during conversation between them in his neigborhood. So just think what would be the effect if that potential generation with all of their capabilities and internet infrastructure get confident from the fact that their nation is building 5 generation fighter with South Korea.
> 
> 3. The program will improve nation standing/image and I think it is quite comparable like hosting an Olympic Games despite we only become junior partner of the program.
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Comparing it with CN 235 program in late 1970's*
> 
> Talking about the cost, I believe the program can be quite comparable or maybe much less expensive than CN 235 program during late 1970's if we compare it with Indonesian GDP at that time. I talk about total development cost relative to GDP or government total spending.
> 
> So KFX/IFX program is like CN 235 program during late 1970's and too bad we dont know how much the cost is since CN 235 program cost so far is not available for public knowledge. At that time we also contribute 50 % of development cost while for KFX/IFX program it is only 20 %.
> 
> CN 235 program IMO is also very instrumental in building our confidence during that time that lead to our nation success in building high tech home grown industry relative to nations in our region (South East Asia) despite our low R&D budget.
> 
> So KFX/IFX program can become our other steroid to pursuit more development in high tech industry and the effect could be felt until 40 years from now like how CN 235 program has done since late 1970s until 2020.
> 
> This mentality thing is very important, it is like how determinant Jhon F. Kennedy is to bring man to the moon during cold war with USSR. That program thus help improving confidence among baby boomers despite the lead engineers at that time is German immigrant.
> 
> Jokowi has said previously about mental revolution (revolusi mental) during his first term administration and this program IMO can help him to achieve such goal perfectly.



Let's end this pipe dream. It seems clear that Jokowi isn't interested in paying the contribution towards the program and the Indonesian government is actively looking for alternative systems. (by the way, I do think F-16 may suit Indonesia better than KF-X/IF-X) Cancelling the submarine orders from DSME would further sour the relationship between two nations.

It doesn't matter how determined & mentally prepared the nation is for the project when they are not actually paying for the program. We can talk about how the project benefits Indonesia in both short-term and long-term, but the bottom line is that Indonesia won't receive the prototype nor be able to produce KF-X/IF-X locally as they simply are not paying for it.

I am pretty sure you are aware that the project can't wait for the next presidential election in Indonesia. It will progress and Indonesia would be denied to access to the final product unless they finally decide to pay up the full amount.


----------



## Indos

SgtGungHo said:


> Let's end this pipe dream. It seems clear that Jokowi isn't interested in paying the contribution towards the program and the Indonesian government is actively looking for alternative systems. (by the way, I do think F-16 may suit Indonesia better than KF-X/IF-X) Cancelling the submarine orders from DSME would further sour the relationship between two nations.
> 
> It doesn't matter how determined & mentally prepared the nation is for the project when they are not actually paying for the program. We can talk about how the project benefits Indonesia in both short-term and long-term, but the bottom line is that Indonesia won't receive the prototype nor be able to produce KF-X/IF-X locally as they simply are not paying for it.
> 
> I am pretty sure you are aware that the project can't wait for the next presidential election in Indonesia. It will progress and Indonesia would be denied to access to the final product unless they finally decide to pay up the full amount.



I can say this year and next year we have abundant of money coming from pandemic stimulus budget. Until December we just use around 65 % out of 49 billion USD economic stimulus budget intended for 2020 spending.

I am quite optimist government will pay our due and next payment (plus set aside money to complete our financial contribution) next year inshaAllah. Jokowi is stingy, he even hasnt paid government debt to our own state owned companies for years. The total debt is 115 trillion Rupiah or in USD is around 10 billion USD.

I just heard government has paid it after they borrow huge money from financial market (bond market) to finance the economic stimulus program. Our SOE minister even need to say it in public around July this year to pressure Jokowi to pay government debt to our state owned companies which become our main force in financing and building our massive infrastructure program along his own period


----------



## Indos

Indos said:


> The reason Korean need to build their own fighter than just relying on US fighters. These coming from Korean Air Force ex pilot/General. One main reason is that it will be cheaper and easier to maintain our own fighter. In the time of war, this is very crucial. Some time he said Korean must delay the maintenance for about six month or even up to one year due to their dependency on US manufacturer.
> 
> Indonesian Aerospace official also said previously in other media that Indonesia will be much easier to upgrade the plane if KFX/IFX become our back bone fighter and he said this will give some sort of adventage for our Air Force that can increase our deterrent capability.



Cost comparison



















Infographic: The Mammoth Cost Of Operating America's Combat Aircraft


This chart shows the operating cost per aircraft in fiscal year 2018.




www.statista.com


----------



## Indos

Indos said:


> I will give you some of Indonesian indigenous radars
> 
> *1. Naval Radar made by Indonesian private owned electronics company
> 
> The Director is woman actually, Wiwiek Astuti*
> 
> View attachment 677507
> 
> 
> *Indonesia equips frigates, corvette with stealth radars
> Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
> 14 April 2014
> 
> The Indonesian Navy (Tentara Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Laut: TNI-AL) will equip a total of four Ahmad Yani (Van Speijk)-class guided missile frigates and one Kapitan Pattimura (Parchim I)-class corvette with low-probability-of-intercept (LPI) naval radars.
> 
> The radars will be built by Indonesian naval sensor manufacturer PT Infra RCS, company officials told [i>IHS Jane's on 11 April.
> 
> The company describes its equipment, the IRCS LPI Radar, as a stealthy sea-based X-band (SBX) radar with frequency modulated continuous wave technology.
> 
> "It has a maximum power output of only 10 W, making it quiet and virtually invisible to radar warning receivers on enemy vessels", said Prihatno Susanto, Technical Advisor for the company. "This allows our warships to detect hostile surface combatants without being discovered".
> 
> The IRCS LPI Radar has an effective range of 24 n miles and is equipped with tracking software known as Maritime Tracking Aid that allows for automatic radar plotting aid functionality. The system's antenna rotates at 20 rpm and has a gain of about 30dB.
> 
> The radar is available as a stand-alone system but can also be integrated with a vessel's electronic chart display and information system (IRCS) and combat management system.
> 
> The vessels now equipped with the radar are the guided missile frigates KRI _Ahmad Yani_ and KRI _Abdul Halim_ Perdanakusuma. Both began upgrade works in December 2013. Undergoing the equipment fixture currently are similar vessels in class KRI _Yos Sudarso_ , KRI _Oswald Siahaan_ and the Kapitan Pattimura-class corvette KRI _Sultan Taha_ .
> 
> Besides LPI naval radars, the company has also won a contract to equip _Oswald Siahaan_ and _Yos Sudarso_ with naval electronic support measures (ESM) systems that can detect electromagnetic emissions from electronic devices on enemy ships such as radar, communications equipment, jammers and missile targeting systems.
> 
> "The IRCS ESM has electronic intelligence (ELINT) capabilities that can pick up signals emitted by hostile warships from up to 90 n miles away via a passive radar", said Susanto. "Once these electromagnetic emissions are detected, a computer software that comes with the system will be able to identify, classify and pin-point the exact location of the source for commanders to take action."
> The company has indicated that it is currently embarking on an effort to market both systems internationally.
> 
> Indonesia equips frigates, corvette with stealth radars - IHS Jane's 360
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *2. 200 km 2 D surveilance radar developed by state owned electronics company, PT LEN Industry
> 
> View attachment 677477
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Berita | PT Len Industri (Persero)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.len.co.id
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Passive radar, Bandung Institute of Technology (ITB)
> 
> View attachment 677478
> *
> View attachment 677480
> 
> View attachment 677482
> 
> 
> 4. SAR Radar Development. There is one Indonesian researcher, Prof Josaphat Tetuko Sumantri get funded by Japan to develop SAR Radar. He is still working for Indonesian government as researcher for SAR radar research in Bandung Institute of Technology and Professor in University of Indonesia. Here is the website and you can see some of his research
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josaphat Microwave Remote Sensing Laboratory (JMRSL) – Josaphat Laboratory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jmrsl.jp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Short Biodata*
> Josaphat was born in Bandung, Indonesia in 1970. He received the B.Eng. and M.Eng. Degrees in electrical and computer engineering (subsurface radar systems) from Kanazawa University, Japan, in 1995 and 1997, respectively, and the Ph.D. degree in artificial system sciences (applied radio wave and radar systems) from Chiba University, Japan, in 2002.
> 
> From 2002 to 2005, he was a Lecturer (Post-doctoral Fellowship Researcher) with the Center for Frontier Electronics and Photonics, Venture Business Laboratory, Chiba University, Japan. From 2005 to 2013, he was an Associate Professor (permanent staff) with the Center for Environmental Remote Sensing, Chiba University, where he is currently a Full Professor (permanent staff). He is Head Department of Environmental Remote Sensing and Head Division of Earth and Environmental Sciences, Graduate School of Integrated Science and Technology, Chiba University in 2019-2020.
> 
> His research interest are theoretically scattering microwave analysis and its applications in microwave (radar) remote sensing, especially synthetic aperture radar and subsurface radar (VLF), including InSAR, DInSAR and PS-InSAR, analysis and design of antennas for mobile satellite communications and microwave sensors, development of microwave sensors, including synthetic aperture radar (SAR) for unmanned aerial vehicle, aircraft, and microsatellite.
> 
> He published about 700 journal and conference papers, and tens book related wave analysis, SAR, and small antenna. He is General Chair of The 7th Asia-Pacific Conference on Synthetic Aperture Radar (APSAR 2021) at Bali, Indonesia and more than 200 Invited Talks and Lectures related synthetic aperture radar and its applications. He is co-leader of Working Group on Remote Sensing Instrumentation and Technologies for Unmanned Aerial Vehicles of IEEE GRSS, Technical Committee on Instrumentation and Future Technologies (IFT-TC).
> 
> He is member of international and domestic organizations, reviewer of journals, and organizations. He received many awards and research grants related his researches and studies, and promoted many students from around the world.and as a Visiting Lecturer/Professor in many Universities etc.
> 
> He manages Josaphat Microwave Remote Sensing Laboratory (JMRSL), Center for Environmental Remote Sensing (CEReS), Chiba University, Japan. His laboratory promotes the education and research to develop the internationally technologies and sciences on microwave remote sensing. He always encourages the undergraduate and postgraduate students to know the microwave phenomenons and to be familiar with the interaction between microwave and natural matters (i.e. vegetation, artificial materials, earth surface, snow), therefore they could develop original methods or sensor during studying in the courses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prof. Josaphat Tetuko Sri Sumantyo – Josaphat Microwave Remote Sensing Laboratory (JMRSL)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jmrsl.jp



AESA radar prototype. Bandung Institute of Technology. Presented in 2018 Indo Defense event.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1060867307868631040

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Whizzack

Impressive..!









KAI releases new photo from South Korea’s next-gen fighter jet assembly line


Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) has shared new footage that shows the production process of South Korea’s next-generation fighter jet, known popularly as KF-X. South Korean aerospace giant has released new photos of the KF-X assembly line in Sacheon, south of Seoul. According to new photos, the...




defence-blog.com

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## Whizzack

Business
Industry
[Contribution] In celebration of first assembly of KF-X airframe
By Korea Herald Published : Sep 20, 2020 - 16:54
Updated : Sep 25, 2020 - 11:44

Bradley Leland
Bradley Leland is the Lockheed Martin Program Director for the KF-X Program as part of F-35 offset. He has an extensive background in fighter aircraft development, including the F-22, T-50, and F-35 Programs. He has been supporting Korea Aerospace Industries since the beginning of the KF-X program in 2015. -- Ed.

Nearly five years ago, the KF-X Program began. It began with a vision, a vision built upon a 30-year commitment to successfully develop an aerospace industry in Korea.

The KF-X vision was the next step, and the pinnacle of a world-class aerospace industry. The KF-X is an outstanding, indigenous, highly advanced fighter aircraft.

ad
Five years ago, the many professionals at Korea Aerospace Industries, the Defense Acquisition Program Administration, and the Republic of Korea’s Air Force began working hard to mature that vision, to turn the vision into reality.

Sept. 3 was a major milestone. On this day, the forward fuselage, center fuselage, and aft fuselage assemblies all came together to make a single airframe. We now have the complete structure of the first KF-X aircraft.

But what you see is not just an airframe structure. It is so much more. It is the result of a long and complex journey, for there is a long distance between a vision and an airframe.

ad
Korea assembled a leadership team, and then embarked on that difficult journey at the end of 2015. They first turned the vision into a set of requirements, which is never easy. But from those requirements they developed a design. And that design was analyzed, refined, and optimized until it could meet those strict requirements in 2019.

But the process had only begun, for next they had to engineer each part -- over 10,000 parts. And each part needed a manufacturing drawing. Each part had to be fabricated precisely. Each part had to be assembled perfectly, and in proper order. For more than two years those parts have been fabricated by fine craftsmen across Korea.

As those parts were completed, assembly began. It began with small sub-assemblies, that led to large assemblies, and finally to aircraft sections by the skilled manufacturing workers at Korea Aerospace Industries.

On Sept. 3, KF-X became a complete airframe, but it represents so much more. It represents hundreds of expert engineers and millions of man-hours of design and analysis. This airframe reflects hundreds of small companies of skilled craftsman across Korea. It reflects the dream and commitment of ROKAF, the leadership of DAPA, the diligence of KAI technicians, and the courage of KAI management. Today, all of Korea can be proud.

I have learned to never underestimate the power of the Korean people. Many thousands of people working together, working toward one common vision.

Now you can see the vision is becoming reality. Soon the systems will be installed and tested. Soon the airplane will come to life with electrical power. Soon it will move on its own wheels, using its own jet engines.

And soon this airframe will become an airplane, and it will fly. And as you can already see, she will be beautiful.

By Bradley Leland









[Contribution] In celebration of first assembly of KF-X airframe


Bradley Leland is the Lockheed Martin Program Director for the KF-X Program as part of F-35 offset. He has an extensive background in fighter aircraft development, including the F-22, T-50, and F-35 Programs. He has been supporting Korea Aerospace Industries since the beginning of the KF-X...



m.koreaherald.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

During N 219 certification process ceremony in 28 December 2020, it is said by one of our former Airforce commander, Chappy Hakim, that newer generation engineers working in Dirgantara Indonesia (DI), which come from millennial generation, are quite enthusiast working because there are a new civil aircarft project, N 219, and also a military project, KFX/IFX program, going on. Those projects are both very good to improve Indonesian young designers/engineers knowledge/expertise particularly because they are also working with senior engineers from DI and also KAI and Lockheed Martin.


----------



## Indos

I put this 2016 information from *Indonesia Defense Ministry official website* to understand about the project further and about Indonesian contribution on the program. This is also important since there is disinformation going on to jeopardize the cooperation between the two countries.

In 2015 Korea and Indonesia has reached the agreement about work sharing and other so the information being put here is still up to date since the information is based on the 2015 deal that start the second phase of KFX/IFX program which is manufacturing phase after first phase, technology development phase, that started in 2011.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Google Translate

*Korea Indonesia KFX / IFX Combat Aircraft Project*
Monday, May 2, 2016

The development project of a 4.5 generation advanced fighter aircraft called KFX / IFX, which is being carried out by South Korea and Indonesia, has officially started in recent months. Indonesia, which bears 20% of the development fund, has also prepared infrastructure and human resources to support the success of this biggest Indonesian military project. Then what has Indonesia prepared?

*The first thing that has been prepared by the Indonesian government is to build facilities to support this project in the future. The facilities under construction are a special hangar for the composing hangar facility, titanium hangar, production hangar, and hangar for the final assembly of this fighter aircraft in Bandung, West Java. This particular hangar is located in the area of PT Dirgantara Indonesia, and is almost complete.*

In this special facility for the KFX / IFX project, it will be used by the Indonesian side for the purposes of this project. Indonesia itself is reportedly going to get a share to make a number of important components of this sophisticated fighter. Among them are the wing, tail and wing reinforcement components of this fighter.

In addition, it is also reported that in this facility, one of the IFX fighter prototypes will also be built which will become part of Indonesia. As we all know that in this KFX / IFX project, 6 prototypes will be built which will undergo a series of flight tests. One of these 6 prototypes will belong to Indonesia. Apart from the 6 prototypes, there will be 2 other prototypes to be built which will not be tested but will undergo a series of aircraft structural tests. The KFX / IFX fighter prototype to be produced in Indonesia is the fifth prototype, and will be a fully carried out test flight aircraft in Indonesia.

Design KFX / IFX C-103 Conventional Wing Dual Engine

Not only preparing for infrastructure, Indonesia has also started preparing my human resources since a few years ago to support this modern fighter development project. The Indonesian government and PT Dirgantara Indonesia are reported to have prepared around 200 to 300 experts to be involved in this mega project of the Indonesian military . However, a large number of experts will come to South Korea gradually over the next 10 years. However, there are also experts who will be involved for 10 years from the start.

Some of the experts from Indonesia themselves will be sent to school abroad, especially to European countries to sharpen their knowledge, before being directly involved in this project. The additional knowledge they get from European countries is expected to be of additional positive value for the development of Indonesian combat aircraft in the future.

*The number of Indonesian experts involved in the second phase, known as the Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) phase, was far more than the first phase (Technical Development Phase), which only amounted to 52 at that time. The first phase (Technical Development Phase) itself lasted 18 months from 2011 to 2012. Meanwhile, the second phase (EMD) will last for 10 years, involving 200-300 Indonesian experts.*

Not only aerospace experts, the Indonesian military has also prepared several pilots from the Indonesian Air Force as test pilots for this fighter aircraft later. It is reported that 5 test pilots have been prepared for this KFX / IFX fighter later. The five pilots are reported to have qualified and had sufficient flight hours with the KT-1B Wongbee and T-50i Golden Eagle trainers.

Not only that, the five candidates for the KFX / IFX fighter pilot test have also been specially assigned to S1 Aviation Engineering - Bandung Institute of Technology (ITB). This is done so that the five prospective test pilots are also equipped with adequate aviation knowledge in addition to the ability to be fighter pilots.

This considerable preparation is expected to be a step towards the success of the KFX / IFX fighter aircraft development project which in the future is expected to become the foundation of the TNI's defense equipment, especially for Indonesian combat aircraft in the future. Although this fighter plane is not purely an Indonesian-made fighter, Indonesia has high hopes for the success of this project.

But of course all these preparations do not guarantee that this project will run smoothly and smoothly. Of course there will be many obstacles and obstacles that will still be faced, but at least all the preparations that have been carried out are a good first step. We cannot confirm the success or failure of this mega project of the Indonesian military and only time will tell.







Badan Pendidikan dan Pelatihan Kemhan RI







www.kemhan.go.id


----------



## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345977413306634241

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Indos

There is disinformation going on in Indonesian circle as if Indonesia can only get profit from the sales of IFX which is not true. Some people dont understand how business operates, if we invest 20 % in a business of course we will get 20 % profit from all the sales, regardless it is IFX or KFX, and Indonesia doesnt only contribute on the cost but also work force and skills where the design development alone requires 114 Indonesian experience engineers/designers, I said experience because KAI only want engineers whose age is above 35 ( coming from Deputy Defense Minister statement in CNBC Indonesia June/July 2019)

Other disinformation said that Indonesia only produce some components for all KFX/IFX without any assembling/integration work which is not true since all of IFX will be assembled in Indonesia Aerospace and the components being made is for all KFX/IFX. I believe the possibility for KFX (not intended for Indonesia Aerospace) to be assembled in Indonesia Aerospace if the demand is quite high is also very possible, just look on Turkey where they still produce F35 components despite being kick out from the program, due to F35 high sales.

Current Indonesian government ask for export right, so what does it means ? It means Indonesia will be able to do assembling/integrating work for KFX that will be sold outside, not only for IFX as current deal said. So it talks about more Indonesian Aerospace contribution on the manufacturing and it is also to make the program sounds more indigenous like CN 235 program where Indonesia Aerospace share 50 % of the development cost. Indonesia will still get 20 % profit from all KFX/IFX sales regardless we get export right or not.

This is all coming from genuine information from Indonesia defense ministry website that I posted in above post and about 114 designers during design development comes from KAI official that is cited by Jane Defense publication. I hope Indonesian out there relies the information about the program from genuine source and respectable media like Kompas/Tempo/Angkasa/Jane Defense and in some extend CNN Indonesia if they have quotes from official (not the reporter narrative/analysis).

For those Alay generation who flood South Korean Facebook, I hope they write their opinion politely and do research first before commenting there. Some Indonesian act like girl who believe on rumors or every thing said by private Youtube channel with all of the sensation there. In order to see the program in a fair judgement we should look on the pro and contra of the program and it should be from people who knows the program and from respectable media as well.

Even politician comment like ex deputy of defense ministry official should not be swallowed just that, we need to be critical as they may get approached by foreign OEM to make Indonesia leave KFX/IFX program and buy that OEM fighter or other thing like his lack of understanding about technology development or lack of vision and others. 

I think many contra opinion (coming from politician/private Youtube narrative/reporter interpretation) has been known already so I need to put the pro argument coming from Indonesian who were inside the KFX/IFX program during SBY admnistration so he knows better than YT abal abal with some dis-information they have created regarding the program or some green politician that just come to power or politician with has vested of interest.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



*Marsdya (Pur) Eris Herryanto Bicara Soal KFX/IFX: Korea Itu Tulus, Mereka Mau Ngasih Apapun ke Kita*
Jumat, 19 Juli 2019 13:00
Penulis : Beny Adrian/Angkasa News





Marsdya (Pur) Eris Herryanto. Sumber: angkasa.news/ Trisna Bayu

*Angkasa.news - *Jika angkasa.news tidak keliru, Marsdya (Pur) Eris Herryanto adalah salah satu dari sedikit purnawirawan perwira tinggi TNI yang sangat fasih menjelaskan tentang program pesawat tempur nasional IFX (_Indonesian Fighter_).

IFX dan KFX adalah proyek pengembangan pesawat tempur generasi 4,5 yang digawangi Korea Selatan. Pada 2009, Indonesia menyatakan minat untuk terlibat, yang ditandai dengan penandatangan _letter of intent_ (LoI).

Proyek ini dinamakan _Korean Fighter Experimental_ (KFX) dan _Indonesian Fighter Experimental_ (IFX). Pesawat akan diproduksi sebanyak 168 unit dengan rincian 120 unit untuk Korsel dan Indonesia diperkirakan 48 unit. Produksi massal rencananya dimulai 2026.

Pada 15 Juli 2010, pemerintah Indonesia setuju untuk mendanai 20% proyek KFX dengan imbalan sekitar 50 pesawat untuk TNI AU. September 2010, Indonesia mengirimkan tim ahli hukum dan ahli penerbangan ke Korea Selatan untuk membahas masalah hak cipta.

Di Indonesia sendiri, pemberitaan terkait program IFX naik turun ibarat ombak di laut. Ada yang bilang tetap jalan, terseok-seok, bahkan yang ekstrem bilang sudah berhenti.

Bertanyalah kepada yang paham, itu kata orang bijak. Untuk itu _Angkasa_ pun menemui Marsdya (Pur) Eris Herryanto di lapangan terbang Pusdirga, Cibubur. Penerbang F-5E/F _Tiger II_ dan F-16 _Fighting Falcon_ ini sudah terlibat proyek KFX/IFX sejak awal.

Dengan jabatannya sebagai Dirjen Sarana Pertahanan Kemenhan (2007-2009), Irjen Kemenhan (2010), dan Sekjen Kemenhan (2010-2013), menjadikannya paham betul sejatinya program IFX.

Usai mendaratkan pesawat aerobatik Pitts S-2C yang rutin diterbangkannya setiap akhir minggu di Cibubur, Marsdya Eris bicara banyak tentang program KFX/IFX.

*Publik selalu bertanya, apakah program IFX masih jalan?*

Masih jalan, karena kita masih mengikutsertakan 72 ahli sesuai bidangnya. Misalkan bidang aerodinamika, ya mereka, yang lain belum. Banyak sekali tenaga ahli yang terlibat dari kita untuk KFX/IFX.

*Program ini terkesan tidak berjalan lancar, apakah tidak ‘dikunci’ saja sebagai program nasional?*

Kalau ditanya bisa atau tidak, saja jawab bisa. Masalahnya pemimpin harus diberi masukan, apa manfaatnya untuk kita di kemudian hari. Karena ada yang berpikiran Indonesia itu teknologinya belum _advanced_, jadi kenapa ambisi memiliki pesawat dengan teknologi canggih. Kenapa tidak beli saja, _nggak_ susah-susah. Lalu ada ahli yang bilang, saya sudah sekolah tinggi-tinggi S3 di luar negeri, kalau tidak diberi mainan untuk apa saya sekolah. Jadi harus ada program yang disepakati bersama. Jangan semua bagian punya maunya sendiri-sendiri. Pemimpin harus bilang bisa, dengan masukan yang benar.

*Apakah komitmen IFX tidak fixed dari awal?*

Karena orangnya ganti-ganti. Programnya sudah _fixed_, tapi kalau pejabatnya baru dan dia tidak mengerti lalu tanya-tanya dan tidak dapat penjelasan, sampai ada yang punya keinginan lain, jadinya berubah. Contohnya radio. TNI butuh radio yang memiliki interoperability darat, laut, dan udara. Oleh karena itu supaya tidak tergantung, bikin sendiri. Ok, industri bilang bisa asal diberi kesempatan. Tetapi komitmennya harus terus, karena industri investasi di situ sehingga butuh _long term_. Tiba-tiba ada pejabat bilang, _kok_ radionya begini, beli saja dari luar. Itu yang kita hadapi sejak lama.

*Apakah dengan kondisi seperti ini, IFX masih jauh dari harapan?*

Tidak jauh _sih_, tinggal bilang _full support_, masih _ngejar_. Kita terlambat 1-2 tahun saja, jadi masih bisa _ngejar_.

*Bisa dijelaskan keuntungan yang akan diraih Indonesia jika menguasai teknologi pesawat tempur?*

Saya sering bilang, Indonesia tahun 2035 akan kekurangan sumber daya alam yang kita ekspor. Apakah batu bara, nikel, minyak dll. Menurut Pak Jokowi sudah habis semuanya. Kalau sudah habis, lalu apa yang bisa kita ekspor. Satu-satunya ya teknologi. Kalau kita mau ekspor teknologi, mulai dari sekarang. Kalau tidak, bagaimana kita menguasai teknologi di tahun 2035.

Jangan _underestimate_ orang Indonesia, pintar-pintar _kok_. Di PTDI itu banyak ahli kedirgantaraan. Saya tanya mereka, gaji tidak masalah buat mereka. Bagi mereka, mainannya mana. Jadi pemimpin harus tahu itu semua bahwa mereka siap mengerjakan.

*Mungkin Indonesia berat memenuhi komitmen 20% karena masalah keuangan?*

Kita hanya memberikan kontribusi satu tahun Rp 2,1 triliun untuk KFX/IFX. Anggaran belanja kita 2.000 triliun, 2 triliun dari 2.000 triliun hanya 0,01 persen. Tetapi ini akan menjadi _backbone _ekspor setelah 2035 yang nilainya tidak sedikit.

Anggap saja satu pesawat dihargai 75 juta dolar AS, itu 20 persen dari nilainya sudah ada di Indonesia. Kalau satu tahun kita bisa buat IFX sebanyak 30 unit, berarti 30 x 75 x 20%, berapa perputaran ekonomi di Indonesia. Itu memang nanti kalau jalan, dan kondisinya ideal. Termasuk _marketing_.

Saya berpendapat banyak nilai positif bisa kita dapat jika program ini jalan.

*






Eris melakukan pre-flight check sebelum menerbangkan Pitts S-2C. Sumber: angkasa.news/ Trisna Bayu
Apakah perlu forum untuk mengangkat kembali isu ini?*

Tidak salah, tapi sekarang kita harapkan siapa. Pemerintah yang utama, yaitu Kementerian Pertahanan. Kita kan sedang _development_ jadi perlu komitmen pemerintah, TNI AU perlu terus mendorong. _Leading sector_-nya ya Kemenhan.

Kalau saya melihatnya dari segi apapun, program KFX/IFX menguntungkan. Dari segi keamanan, ekonomi, SDM. Zaman Pak Habibie kirim orang belajar ke luar negeri, mereka butuh mainan. Kita punya banyak orang seperti ini.

Mereka tidak cari pendapatan besar _kok_ di luar negeri. Mereka bilang, kasih mereka rumah di Indonesia, gaji secukupnya, saya bangun teknologinya.

Jadi siapa orangnya sekarang, saya tidak tahu. Nanti saya dibilang _sok_ tahu _he he he_. Tidak ada yang tidak mungkin untuk kepentingan bangsa.

*Bagaimana soal teknologi AS di dalam pesawat, apakah akan jadi ganjalan?*

Kita kerja sama dengan Korea, mereka bilang akan kasih semuanya ke Indonesia. Indonesia tidak perlu khawatirnya, katanya. Saat ini ada empat teknologi yang belum dikuasai Korea. Tapi mereka tidak bilang, karena mereka sedang dan sudah lakukan R&D, jadi saya tahu sudah dikuasai.

Korea sebetulnya sudah tidak tergantung kepada AS. Namun mereka tidak mau begitu, karena tetap menjaga hubungan. Jadi kalau terjadi sesuatu dalam hubungan dengan Indonesia, Korea yang akan bilang bahwa mereka berteman dengan Indonesia. Korea butuh Indonesia, hanya kadang kita _curigaan_ kepada orang.

Kalau kita diskusi dengan mereka, pahami pemikiran mereka. Mereka diikat UU yang ketat. Kalau melanggar UU seperti korupsi, ampun, hukumannya berat. Mereka sangat takut. Jadi pahami mereka. Mereka _all out_. Memang curiga itu boleh karena kita sama-sama punya kepentingan dan kita tidak bisa memaksakan kepentingan kita kepada mereka. Tapi mereka punya teknologinya.

Seperti soal kapal selam, Korea peroleh ilmunya dari Jerman dan tekonologinya dikasih ke kita, Jerman _nggak_ protes. Karena apa, sudah dimodifikasi seluruhnya oleh Korea dan sudah dikuasai karena R&D-nya bagus. Walaupun disebut U-209 tapi tidak diprotes Jerman.

Demikian pula pesawat. Saya tahu 129 teknologi yang mereka punya sudah dikuasai. Hanya dalam pembuatan ini (KFX/IFX) Korea minta _support_.

Jadi kita ikuti saja, jangan kita belum menguasai sesuatu tapi sudah _kemaki_ (_sok-sokan_). Saya ingat cerita Angling Dharma, yang bisa jadi orang digdaya karena belajar sama orang. Disuruh angkut rumput pun dia kerjakan asal ilmunya diberikan. Kata orang Jawa, _ngawulo_. Tapi ini kan tidak, belum apa-apa kita sudah _kemaki_.

*Jadi, bagaimana sebaiknya kita menyikapi kerja sama dengan Korea?*

Korea beda dengan China. Kalau China melakukan _reverse engineering_. Mereka beli lalu bongkar dan berani (bongkar) meski dilarang AS. Lalu di-_reverse_. Jadi polanya beda dengan Korea.

Soal kapal selam, saya diceritakan sejarahnya. Orang Korea pertama yang mempelajari kapal selam ke Jerman, namanya Admiral An. Di Jerman, semua orang Korea yang belajar dianggap buruh, itu tahun 1980 selama 20 tahun. Semua mulai dari bawah, mereka pelajari dan sekarang mereka kuasai dan bisa bikin sendiri. Orang Korea berbakti kepada negaranya sangat tinggi.

Perusahaan penerbangan mereka mulai 1980, dan sekarang kita beli T-50 dari mereka. Tapi kenapa kita berhenti ketika Pak Nurtanio sudah memulai dulu 1946. Apa yang dilakukan Pak Habibie juga diubah semua dan kita _failed_ sejak krismon. Korea tidak begitu.

Pemerintahnya _support_ penuh. Saya yakin tahun 2030-45, Korea menguasai semua teknologi.

Beberapa waktu lalu saya ikut paparan dari Litbang Kemenhan Korea, yang tidak pernah mereka sampaikan di negara lain. Saya minta kopinya tapi tidak boleh karena sangat rahasia.

Artinya mereka punya ketulusan kerja sama dengan kita. Semua kemampuan mereka sudah riset, semua platform mereka punya. Seperti tank K2 _Black Panther_ buatan Korea, canggih sekali.

Dari presentasi itu saya tahu bahwa semua aspek pertempuran masa depan, akan mereka kuasai. Itu dari Litbang militer Korea yang sarjana S-3 nya kalau tidak salah 2.000 orang.

Saya merasa kerja sama dengan Korea itu tulus, harus kita tangkap. Mereka mau _ngasih_ apapun kepada kita.



https://angkasa.news/teknologi/detail/marsdya-pur-eris-herryanto-bicara-soal-kf-xif-x-korea-itu-tulus-mereka-mau-ngasih-apapun-ke-kita

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Indeed Indonesian aerospace engineers are very needed by the KFX/IFX program:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*[Herald Interview] With KF-X, S. Korea eyes foothold in global fighter jet market*

*Chief engineer talks about challenges and rewards of next-generation military aircraft project ahead of prototype unveiling*


By Choi Si-young

Published : Oct 22, 2020 - 18:13

The chief engineer discussed the shortcomings he faces as well, saying his team still needs a pool of experts familiar with aerospace technologies.

“We have about 1,300 engineers on the project, but they include those with expertise in shipbuilding and not aerospace,” Lee said, maintaining that for the next five years of jet tests, his team would need more veteran aerospace engineers to pinpoint every glitch in jet performance.

Skilled professionals come first in the high-end industries like the aerospace sector, where precision is a top priority. The fact that KAI is in Sacheon, far away from Seoul, doesn’t help in its efforts to attract and retain top-quality talent, he said.

More on the interview can be check on this link









[Herald Interview] With KF-X, S. Korea eyes foothold in global fighter jet market


SACHEON, South Gyeongsang Province -- As South Korea gears up to reveal a prototype of its next-generation fighter jet in early 2021, Korea Aerospace Industries is pursuing a broader initiative to carve out its presence in the aerospace market, which is dominated by established players in Europe...



www.koreaherald.com


----------



## Indos

*Number of Indonesian engineers (designers) as of July 2019 *


"Despite such a delay in payment, the Indonesian side has continued to send its researchers to South Korea to take part in the development process," Rep. Kim Joong-ro of the minor opposition Bareunmirae Party said during a parliamentary audit into the administration, voicing concern about technology leaks.

As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.









Indonesia delays payment for S. Korea's fighter development project | Yonhap News Agency


SEOUL, Oct. 7 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia is in arrears on its payment obligations for a joint p...




en.yna.co.kr


----------



## Whizzack

Interesting videos of KFX progress...


----------



## Indos

*The history of KFX/IFX Program

2009. MOU between Korea and Indonesia signed
2010. Contract between Korea and Indonesia to develop KFX/IFX fighter is signed. *(I will post Indonesian Presidential Decree about the program that talk about the MOU and Contract later)

*2011. The start of Joint R&D*

Joint R&D design set up.

52 Indonesian aerospace expert was sent. At that time Korea is represented by ADD and Indonesia with Indonesian Aerospace and Bandung Insitute of Technology. One of the result is C103 design that become the base of final C 109 design.

C 103 Design can be seen in Indonesian wind tunnel facility






Source: https://en.antaranews.com/news/73621/ri-sending-kfx-jet-fighter-production-team-to-south-korea https://www.kemhan.go.id/badiklat/2016/05/02/proyek-pesawat-tempur-kfxifx-indonesia-korea.html

*





KAI and LM comes in 2015 and the program is continued in KAI home base. Management Office is set up in KAI office. As in 2017, Indonesian engineers number is increasing into 74.*





*Source* https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/20...nesia-open-KF-X-program-office/1111486574274/

*Preliminary Design Review July 2018 (The completion of basic design)*






*Critical Design Review (the completion of detail design) September 2019. Design is completed.*










*As of July 2019 Indonesian engineers number is 114*

Source: https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20191007003500325

*2020 : Prototype is being manufactured

March 2020, Indonesian engineers come back to Indonesia due to Covid concern and since then hasnt yet come to South Korea

Renegotiation is still continuing until now*


----------



## F-7



Reactions: Like Like:
11 | Love Love:
2


----------



## Zapper

SACHEON, South Gyeongsang Province ― South Korea is set to roll out the first prototype of its indigenously developed next-generation fighter jet, widely known as the Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) aircraft, late next month.

A total of six prototypes are in the final stages of assembly at the Korean Aerospace Industries (KAI) headquarters in Sacheon, Gyeongsang Province. Test flights will be carried out next year, following ground testing after the April roll-out.

Industry officials expressed expectations that the KF-X would not only help accelerate domestic production of fighter jet parts but also bring about a considerable economic effect, creating jobs for about 110,000 people during the full development period planned through 2028. Since the KAI embarked on the KF-X development project in 2016 after winning the contract from the government the previous year, the project has created jobs for more than 10,000 people as of 2020, according to the company.

Officials also expressed expectations that the KF-X fighter jets will compete in the global market with fifth-generation fighter jets such as the U.S. aerospace giant Lockheed Martin's F-35 and F-22, based on price and technology competitiveness. According to the KAI, the KF-X is designed as a 4.5-generation jet whose basic hardware and platform could be used for further development and conversion into a fifth-generation one with improved "stealth" technologies.






A Korea Aerospace Industries official explains the weapon systems of the KF-X fighter jet to reporters at company headquarters in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province, Feb. 24. Courtesy of Defense Acquisition Program Administration

"As the KF-X has been equipped with hardware to become a stealth fighter, we are currently exploring ways to apply stealth technologies to the jet, although we have yet to specify details for further developments as the military has yet to present the details necessary for further developments after Block I and Block II stages of the KF-X development project," Jung Kwang-sun, director general of the KF-X Program Group under the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), told reporters who were visiting KAI headquarters, Feb. 24.

The KF-X project is an "evolutionary development" project which is divided into two phases. The first phase, or the Block I stage, is about developing the basic system of the fighter jet from 2016 to 2026. The second phase, or the Block II stage which would be carried out from 2026 to 2028, is about adding more weapon systems.






The first prototype of South Korea's indigenously developed next generation fighter jet KF-X is being assembled at the Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) headquarters in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province, Feb. 24. Courtesy of Defense Acquisition Program Administration

While the core equipment of the KF-X has been developed with domestic technologies, including active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, infrared search and track (IRST) equipment, electro-optical target tracking (EO TGP) devices and electronic warfare (EW) suite, the target ratio of localization is 65 percent, in terms of the total costs of the parts used for the jet.

With 10 stations on the jet, about 50 different weapons combinations that weigh up to 7.7 tons can be carried. The total fuel capacity of the jet is 5.3 tons and it has aerial refuelling capability.

Reactions: Like Like:
5 | Love Love:
1


----------



## The Maverick

This looks absolutely stunning


----------



## LeGenD

Impressive pace and work. Credit where due.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Bilal9

Full FADEC I believe for the F414 engines. Great platform, a first in Asia (outside China) for a stealth design....


----------



## Pakistan Space Agency

A beautiful piece of engineering.


----------



## Syed1.

Wow that's gorgeous.


Tiny country off to the side of the world with not a lot of natural resources and look at how they have developed and advanced. All through sheer determination, hard work and will power. I wish Pakistanis had just 10% of the work ethic and drive of the Koreans.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Gripen9

Would this be considered a full blown 5th gen Stealth aircraft or more low observable 4.5+ gen?
Seems to be a great design but does not have internal weapons bay and ordnance is carried on external hardpoints. What kind of RAM coating does it use?


----------



## Indos

Gripen9 said:


> Would this be considered a full blown 5th gen Stealth aircraft or more low observable 4.5+ gen?
> Seems to be a great design but does not have internal weapons bay and ordnance is carried on external hardpoints. What kind of RAM coating does it use?



Block 2 is planned to be full STEALTH. The development of block 2, particularly the software has already been started. The design has already considered internal weapon with 6 AA missiles.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## pakpride00090

Syed1. said:


> Wow that's gorgeous.
> 
> 
> Tiny country off to the side of the world with not a lot of natural resources and look at how they have developed and advanced. All through sheer determination, hard work and will power. I wish Pakistanis had just 10% of the work ethic and drive of the Koreans.



Nah.. Here we will destroy the people who are actually working for good by imposing absurd policies like quota system and discrimination based on ethnicity , cast , language or birdari..

South Korea is a homogenous country where they don't have such issues ... They are more evolved and not primitive like us.


----------



## Tumba

This plane is stealth like without internal weapons bay....why didnt go all in stealth plane I wonder...


----------



## Indos

Tumba said:


> This plane is stealth like without internal weapons bay....why didnt go all in stealth plane I wonder...



Despite it doesnt have internal weapon bay in block 1, but the overall RCS will be much reduce compared to 4 generation design like Rafale. And dont forget it does have semi internal weapon for 4 missiles if you look on the belly. For STEALTH configuration it can fly quite STEALTHY with 4 missiles in the belly. Here







Other reasons:

1. To make it less complicated and the full STEALTH version will be developed in block 2 (according to the plan, and yes it has allready been developed now). Need to inform you that the design has already considered internal weapon bay. You can see sticky KFX/IFX thread to read from the engineers words themselves

2. Indonesia needs long range fighter and we need additional fuel tanks. It is due to our vast territory, both sea and land. Korea also consider China and Japan as threat, so they are also benefiting from this design.

3. We can see even USA is still buying F 15 EX, it shows less STEALTH fighter is still useful in real combat.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Beast

Indos said:


> 3. We can see even USA is still buying F 15 EX, it shows less STEALTH fighter is still useful in real combat.



Less stealthy fighter is only useful against non stealthy aircraft. If against full stealth aircraft. You will be eaten for lunch.


----------



## Goritoes

Wonderful work by Koreans, very hard-working and determined and friendly as well, met a lot of them in my workplace, they are very nice, to say the least.


----------



## Falcon26

Indos said:


> Despite it doesnt have internal weapon bay in block 1, but the overall RCS will be much reduce compared to 4 generation design like Rafale. And dont forget it does have semi internal weapon for 4 missiles if you look on the belly. For STEALTH configuration it can fly quite STEALTHY with 4 missiles in the belly. Here
> 
> View attachment 721360
> 
> 
> Other reasons:
> 
> 1. To make it less complicated and the full STEALTH version will be developed in block 2 (according to the plan, and yes it has allready been developed now). Need to inform you that the design has already considered internal weapon bay. You can see sticky KFX/IFX thread to read from the engineers words themselves
> 
> 2. Indonesia needs long range fighter and we need additional fuel tanks. It is due to our vast territory, both sea and land. Korea also consider China and Japan as threat, so they are also benefiting from this design.
> 
> 3. We can see even USA is still buying F 15 EX, it shows less STEALTH fighter is still useful in real combat.



Does Indonesia own the intellectual property? Can it export without South Korean permission?


----------



## Tumba

Indos said:


> Despite it doesnt have internal weapon bay in block 1, but the overall RCS will be much reduce compared to 4 generation design like Rafale. And dont forget it does have semi internal weapon for 4 missiles if you look on the belly. For STEALTH configuration it can fly quite STEALTHY with 4 missiles in the belly. Here
> 
> View attachment 721360
> 
> 
> Other reasons:
> 
> 1. To make it less complicated and the full STEALTH version will be developed in block 2 (according to the plan, and yes it has allready been developed now). Need to inform you that the design has already considered internal weapon bay. You can see sticky KFX/IFX thread to read from the engineers words themselves
> 
> 2. Indonesia needs long range fighter and we need additional fuel tanks. It is due to our vast territory, both sea and land. Korea also consider China and Japan as threat, so they are also benefiting from this design.
> 
> 3. We can see even USA is still buying F 15 EX, it shows less STEALTH fighter is still useful in real combat.



doesnt look much stealthy from above config though ....but the 4 AAMs are pretty much attached to belly that might be better for stealthy profile good for Air to Air stealthy role but if south korea on thr first try can manufacture that pretty sure coming iterations will be easily matching west... 
south korea has very advanced industry so expected..


----------



## Enigma SIG

Why does every new stealth aircraft look like a rip-off of an F-22?


----------



## Indos

Falcon26 said:


> Does Indonesia own the intellectual property? Can it export without South Korean permission?



Despite our aerospace experts are contributing to design and R&D with substantial amount of experts/engineers (52 experts since 2011, increases into 114 in 2019), but due to our financial contribution is only 20 % and the promised acquisition is only 48 planes so look like we dont have IP right and dont have export license (it is what we are negotiating).

Despite so, financially we will get 20 % of all sales and contribute making parts for all KFX/IFX. The full production is only for IFX (making parts, assembling, integration) while for order outside Indonesia, we only supply parts and possibly regional maintenance. 

All Indonesian engineers has come back to Indonesia since March 2020 and waiting for renegotiation result.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GriffinsRule

F-7 said:


> View attachment 721284
> View attachment 721285
> View attachment 721286
> View attachment 721287
> View attachment 721288
> View attachment 721289
> View attachment 721290
> View attachment 721291
> View attachment 721292
> View attachment 721293
> View attachment 721294
> View attachment 721295


The quality of this jet looks great.


Enigma SIG said:


> Why does every new stealth aircraft look like a rip-off of an F-22?


Form follows function


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-7 said:


> View attachment 721284
> View attachment 721285
> View attachment 721286
> View attachment 721287
> View attachment 721288
> View attachment 721289
> View attachment 721290
> View attachment 721291
> View attachment 721292
> View attachment 721293
> View attachment 721294
> View attachment 721295



The build quality looks immaculate, perfect. At Western Standards for sure. They have achieved a lot given their size and the cost of the programme. A 4.5+ gen homegrown is better than not having it, and it gives them the foundation on which to attempt a 5-6 gen hybrid platform for the next iteration.

Interesting privacy cover mask on the MFD !!!! It is always the fist thing i look at and there is not much to see there.

The symbology on the HUD looks alot like the F16.. i guess form follows function and your experience..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## nomi007

without internal weapon bay disappointed


----------



## Indos

nomi007 said:


> without internal weapon bay disappointed




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1323911862707122177

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

*First prototype of KF-X fighter jet to be unveiled next month*​

Posted on : Mar.3,2021 16:50 KST Modified on : Mar.3,2021 16:50 KST 
​*ROK Air Force to acquire 120 aircraft once fighter development is complete *

*



*​The first prototype of the KF-X South Korean fighter jet at the Korea Aerospace Industries facility in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province, is pictured on Feb. 24. (provided by the Kookbang Ilbo) 

On the afternoon of Feb. 24, technicians at the fixed-wing aircraft development hanger of Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) were busy working on the prototype of the KF-X South Korean fighter jet, which is scheduled to be launched in April. Located in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province, the hanger is a sprawling building that covers more than three football fields, with an area of 21,600 square meters (5.3 acres).

The prototype’s fuselage bristles with devices, parts, and cables, presenting a formidable image of a fighter aircraft. Six or seven people stood underneath the fuselage with a small cart, focused on an explanation that involved a lot of hand gestures.

“Now that we’ve completed the engine installation test, we’re removing the engine to paint the fuselage. Once painting wraps up next week, the fuselage will take on a dark gray hue,” a KAI staffer said. The engine is being removed to prevent contamination while the plane is being painted and will be reinstalled afterward, the staffer explained.

South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) and KAI plan to put on quite a show for the launch of the KF-X prototype in April. A “media day” event was held on Feb. 24 for the domestic press, in which officials presented the results of the development project to date.

The KF-X project began in 2015, when the South Korean government earmarked 8.8 trillion won (US$7.12 billion) to develop a jet fighter that could be the future workhorse of the Republic of Korea (ROK) Air Force, replacing the aging F-4 and F-5 fighters. *KAI is leading this international joint R&D project and contributing 20% of the cost, with the South Korean government paying 60% of the cost and the Indonesian government paying the remaining 20%.*

The launch of the prototype represents the first tangible results of a promise made about 20 years before. During a commissioning ceremony for graduates of the Korea Air Force Academy in March 2001, former president Kim Dae-jung announced that South Korea would develop a top-of-the-line fighter. Actual confirmation of the long-term need for a new aircraft came 18 years ago, in a meeting of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in November 2002.

Jung Gwang-seon, head of DAPA’s KF-X project team, described the significance of the prototype launch as follows. “This will be a monumental event when Korea’s first fighter is unveiled. From the perspective of the developers, this is a crucial time when a fighter that had only existed in plans becomes a reality and we move into the phase of testing the performance of our research.”







The first prototype of the KF-X South Korean fighter jet at the Korea Aerospace Industries facility in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province, is pictured on Feb. 24. (provided by the Kookbang Ilbo)


The KF-X is larger than the F-16 but smaller than the F-15, measuring 11.2 meters (36 feet) across and 16.9 meters (55 feet) long. It’s equipped with the latest sensors, including AESA radar (standing for active electronically scanned array), infrared search and track (IRST) equipment, and an electro-optical targeting pod (EO TGP). That gives it the ability to “see first and shoot first,” a requirement on the modern battlefield.


The fighter has 10 weapon stations, with three on each wing and four under the fuselage. The stations can hold a range of cutting-edge weapons, including air-to-air missiles and air-to-surface missiles, weighing up to 7.7 tons. The plane is also equipped with a 20mm Vulcan cannon.

While not exactly a stealth fighter, the KF-X does have a basic stealth profile. That leaves open the option of evolving the design into a fifth-generation fighter through the application of full-fledged stealth technology.

“Becoming a stealth fighter is about more than the shape; we’d also have to develop more technology including radar-absorbing paints and internal weapon bays. In the future, we’ll look into the option of continuing to develop and apply related technology from a long-term perspective,” a KAI staffer said.

Once fighter development is complete, 120 aircraft will be supplied to the ROK Air Force. In exchange for its financial contribution, Indonesia will receive one prototype and technological data, which it will use to build 48 aircraft in local facilities. But Indonesia hasn’t kept up with its financial payments, prompting concerns that the KF-X project may be in trouble.

*DAPA reported to the National Assembly’s National Defense Committee last month that of the 831.6 billion won (US$753.1 million) that Indonesia was supposed to pay through February, it had only paid 227.2 billion won (US$205.7 million),* leaving 604.4 billion won (US$547.3 million) unpaid. Indonesia had agreed to pay its total contribution of 1.76 trillion won (US$1.57 billion), representing 20% of the project cost, in several stages.

In a statement addressing the controversy, DAPA said that “the Indonesians have expressed their commitment to continued participation in the KF-X development program” and that “the two countries have been seeking a mutually beneficial arrangement through several rounds of working-level negotiations.”

“Indonesia appears to be having a hard time keeping up with its payment plan because of the coronavirus and its economic recession. While the goal of our deliberations is to move forward together if at all possible, the project would certainly not be halted even if Indonesia were to withdraw,” said Jung Gwang-seon, head of the DAPA project team, on Monday.


By Park Byong-su, senior staff writer









First prototype of KF-X fighter jet to be unveiled next month


ROK Air Force to acquire 120 aircraft once fighter development is complete




www.hani.co.kr





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So look like Indonesia has paid its February payment, but not yet entire payment that it has delayed previously. I think it shows Indonesia is still interested to continue.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371792739323375617

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Deino

Just for your interest! 






Future Books List | Harpia Publishing







www.harpia-publishing.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

*Indonesian defense minister likely to attend KF-X rollout event in S. Korea*​
* All News * 17:03 April 01, 2021





Kang Eun-ho (4th from L), head of South Korea's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), meets with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto (3rd from R) in Surabaya, Indonesia, on March 17, 2021, in this photo provided by the South Korean Embassy in the Southeast Asian nation. Kang visited Indonesia to attend a ceremony for South Korea to hand over a 1,400-ton submarine to the Indonesian Navy later in the day. The 61-meter submarine, dubbed Alugoro, was the third and last unit South Korea delivered to Indonesia under a 1.3 trillion-won (US$1.15 billion) contract in 2011. (PHOTO NOT FOR SALE)



SEOUL, April 1 (Yonhap) -- Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto is expected to attend an upcoming rollout ceremony showcasing a prototype of South Korea's first indigenous fighter jet, sources said Thursday, in what could be a sign the country remains committed to the joint development project.

Indonesia had promised to shoulder 20 percent of the 8.8 trillion-won (US$7.9 billion) development cost, but it has stopped making payments after investing 227.2 billion won with around 600 billion won overdue, spurring speculation that the country is seeking to quit the KF-X project.

Whether Indonesia will send senior officials to the rollout ceremony expected to take place in the first couple of weeks of April has been a focus of attention because it would signal the country will remain a partner for the project.

"As far as I know, Indonesia has delivered to our government an intent that senior military officials, including Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto, will attend the KF-X rollout event," a source said.
Kang Eun-ho, the head of South Korea's arms procurement agency, visited Indonesia last month and handed over the invitation.

Eyes are on whether the defense cooperation between the two sides will get back on track on the occasion of Prabowo's visit. Besides the fighter jet project, Indonesia signed a deal with South Korea in 2019 to purchase three submarines, but the business has also made little progress since then.









Indonesian defense minister likely to attend KF-X rollout event in S. Korea | Yonhap News Agency


SEOUL, April 1 (Yonhap) -- Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto is expected to att...




en.yna.co.kr


----------



## Indos

24 March 2021

*LIG Nex1 delivers EW self-protection system prototype for KF-X fighter aircraft*

by Dae Young Kim

South Korean defence company LIG Nex1 has developed an electronic warfare (EW) self-protection system for integration with the Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) fighter aircraft being developed for the Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF).






LIG Nex1 has delivered an internal EW self-protection system prototype for integration with the RoKAF’s future KF-X multirole fighter aircraft. (LIG Nex1)

Company officials told _Janes_ that a prototype of the system was delivered to aircraft manufacturer Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) in the second half of 2020 to equip the KF-X prototypes currently being assembled at KAI headquarters in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province. The first prototype is expected to be formally rolled out in April.

KAI expects to complete construction of the second and third KF-X prototypes this year and finish assembling the remaining three aircraft by the first half of 2022. The fourth and sixth prototypes are expected to be tandem-seat variants.

The officials said that the internal EW suite, which was developed under a KRW114.5 billion (USD101 million) contract signed in late October 2016, is expected to enter series production following a series of trials and evaluations.

On its website LIG Nex1 described the system, which it referred to simply as the “KFX EW Suite”, as an “EW self-protection jammer” that is designed to detect, analyse, and jam signals from enemy radars and/or incoming missiles. The suite will also be integrated with countermeasures and decoys on the KF-X, including chaffs and flares.






LIG Nex1 delivers EW self-protection system prototype for KF-X fighter aircraft


South Korean defence company LIG Nex1 has developed an electronic warfare (EW) self-protection system for integration with the Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) fighter...



www.janes.com

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## SgtGungHo

It is reported that Indonesia requested a loan of $5 billion in USD from South Korea as a condition for Indonesia to return back to the KF-X/IF-X program when Indonesia has overdue payments towards the KF-X/IF-X program.


----------



## Indos

SgtGungHo said:


> It is reported that Indonesia requested a loan of $5 billion in USD from South Korea as a condition for Indonesia to return back to the KF-X/IF-X program when Indonesia has overdue payments towards the KF-X/IF-X program.



That is just a rumor, your government has already debunked that


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> That is just a rumor, your government has already debunked that



I doubt it. The Korean government only denied the rumor about Indonesia of wanting to halve the contribution towards the KF-X / IF-X program, but not the loan.



> Amid a media report Indonesia has asked to halve its contribution for the project, the arms procurement agency denied adjustment in the burden sharing ratio.
> 
> 
> Asked to comment on the reported request of $5 billion worth of loans from South Korea, Seo said, "It is not a question to be answered by the arms procurement agency."











S. Korea, Indonesia pushing for defense ministerial talks | Yonhap News Agency


SEOUL, April 5 (Yonhap) -- South Korea is in talks with Indonesia to set up defense minist...




en.yna.co.kr





It is plausible that Indonesia demanded Korea to invest $5 billion into Indonesia's soverign wealth fund since the Jokowi administration recently revealed their ambition of doubling Indonesia's wealth fund target from $100 billion to $200 billion when they were starting with only $15 billion and the Korean media interpreted the demand as a loan.









Jokowi Doubles Indonesia’s Wealth Fund Goal to $200 Billion


President Joko Widodo has set a $200 billion goal for Indonesia’s new wealth fund in the next two to three years, aiming to fund his push for the resource-driven economy to rise up the value chain.




www.bloomberg.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SgtGungHo

Link for the roll-out ceremony of KF-X & IF-X prototype. It starts at 2:30 pm in local time.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Whizzack

SgtGungHo said:


> It is reported that Indonesia requested a loan of $5 billion in USD from South Korea as a condition for Indonesia to return back to the KF-X/IF-X program when Indonesia has overdue payments towards the KF-X/IF-X program.



Well if we are going to take a loan to invest back in (our part of) KFX development and facilities, and Korea have some to loan, then it should be fine right..? Afterall it's a loan and will be paid back (with interest) eventually, it's not a grant, aid or something similar... I think it's obvious that cash liquidity is not something we have in abundance... All our other plans to purchase fighter jets, frigates, subs, etc all will be financed through foreign loans...

And anyway let's say that we didn't get the loan and is unable to pay for our share of the development cost and we dropped out of the project, wouldn't Korea still need to cover the remaining 20% dev costs of KFX and at the same time lose a certain customer...? As long as we are in the project, have the facilities, get some workshare.. we will certainly buy KFX as our law mandated purchasing arms with local content in it.. the more the better...

So if these rumors are really true, then I feel the best win-win solution would be for Indonesia to get a loan from Korea, invest it back in KFX dev including paying all due fees (without reducing workshare / contribution), keep the partnership, complete the dev ASAP and recommit to purchasing XX number of KFX when it becomes available...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## foodsoldier

SgtGungHo said:


> It is reported that Indonesia requested a loan of $5 billion in USD from South Korea as a condition for Indonesia to return back to the KF-X/IF-X program when Indonesia has overdue payments towards the KF-X/IF-X program.




IMHO, looking into the number ($5 bio), it's possibly not only for the KFX/IFX participation ($2 bio), but also for follow up order on CBG ($1.2 bio) and possible additional type of submarine (KSS?, for the remaining $2.8 bio).

Or... it could be loan for something else, not related to defense.


----------



## SgtGungHo

foodsoldier said:


> IMHO, looking into the number ($5 bio), it's possibly not only for the KFX/IFX participation ($2 bio), but also for follow up order on CBG ($1.2 bio) and possible additional type of submarine (KSS?, for the remaining $2.8 bio).
> 
> Or... it could be loan for something else, not related to defense.



You guessed it right. It is reported that Indonesia wants Korea to invest that $5 billion into Indonesia's agricultural sector (probably through Indonesia's Soverign Wealth Fund).


----------



## Indos



Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


----------



## Indos



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos

*Specs and capabilities*, I think the data is quite official from KAI directly


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> *Specs and capabilities*, I think the data is quite official from KAI directly



Payload (7,700kg) sucks...slightly better than F-16V, but significantly worse than Rafale F4 (9,000kg). Then again, KF-21 is heavier than Rafale and carries more internal fuel.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

SgtGungHo said:


> Payload (7,700kg) sucks...slightly better than F-16V, but significantly worse than Rafale F4 (9,000kg). Then again, KF-21 is heavier than Rafale and carries more internal fuel.



IMO bombing role nowadays are replaced by MALE UCAV or cruise missiles/ballistic missile so that payload is enough in my perspective, as long as they can still carry many AA missiles and 1 or 2 anti ship missiles. 

Good if KF 21 carries more fuel than Rafale since Indonesia needs long range fighters, this is also good for country like Saudi with has huge territory to protect. 

KF 21 has better T/W ratio than Rafale right ? I hear on the roll out that KF 21 can reach 2 Mach, slightly better than previously said that it can reach 1.8 Mach

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> IMO bombing role nowadays are replaced by MALE UCAV or cruise missiles/ballistic missile so that payload is enough in my perspective, as long as they can still carry many AA missiles and 1 or 2 anti ship missiles.
> 
> Good if KF 21 carries more fuel than Rafale since Indonesia needs long range fighters, this is also good for country like Saudi with has huge territory to protect.
> 
> KF 21 has better T/W ratio than Rafale right ? I hear on the roll out that KF 21 can reach 2 Mach, slightly better than previously said that it can reach 1.8 Mach



Yes, KF 21 has better T/W ratio than Rafale, but the maximum take-off weight isn't significantly different between two (25,400kg vs. 24,500kg). Rafale has better ferry range and probably bette combat radius as well, theorically.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

SgtGungHo said:


> Yes, KF 21 has better T/W ratio than Rafale, but the maximum take-off weight isn't significantly different between two (25,400kg vs. 24,500kg). Rafale has better ferry range and probably bette combat radius as well, theorically.



Can you please explain me why Rafale will have better ferry range and possibly combat radius than KF-21 with more fuel storage ? Is it because Rafale use delta wings and canard that make the plane get more lift ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Whizzack

Indos said:


> Can you please explain me why Rafale will have better ferry range and possibly combat radius than KF-21 with more fuel storage ? Is it because Rafale use delta wings and canard that make the plane get more lift ?


Probably because KFX is using a more powerful engine, hence the better T/W ratio with the same max TOW.. but also means the engine consumes more fuel..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> Can you please explain me why Rafale will have better ferry range and possibly combat radius than KF-21 with more fuel storage ? Is it because Rafale use delta wings and canard that make the plane get more lift ?



Certainly. Rafale is inherently lighter and M88 consumes less fuel of being less powerful than F414. Hence, advertised ferry range of Rafale was said to be 3,700km (vs 2,900km of KF-21) when it was suggested to Indian Air Force.

However, it also means KF-21 is probably better in acceleration & maneuverability (for having a significantly better T/W ratio) though I am not sure it does mean much as almost all air combats are conducted in BVR.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## antonius123

Indos said:


> Can you please explain me why Rafale will have better ferry range and possibly combat radius than KF-21 with more fuel storage ? Is it because Rafale use delta wings and canard that make the plane get more lift ?



Delta wing should get more lift above sonic speed.

Most probably because max fuel capacity that KF-21 can carry is less than Rafale.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SgtGungHo

antonius123 said:


> Delta wing should get more lift above sonic speed.
> 
> Most probably because max fuel capacity that KF-21 can carry is less than Rafale.



KF-21 can carry more fuel (internally + externally) than Rafale just like F/A-18 Super Hornet does (if I am not mistaken). 

The Korean & Indonesian flighter jet has practically inherited all pros and cons of F/A-18 Super Hornet for sharing the same engine configuration and it was a predictable outcome when Korea chose F414 in the past.


----------



## antonius123

SgtGungHo said:


> KF-21 can carry more fuel (internally + externally) than Rafale just like F/A-18 Super Hornet does (if I am not mistaken).
> 
> The Korean & Indonesian flighter jet has practically inherited all pros and cons of F/A-18 Super Hornet for sharing the same engine configuration and it was a predictable outcome when Korea chose F414 in the past.



How much fuel can KF-21 carry internal + external? Rafale can bring 16,550 liter.

Also if we compare range, we need to compare the same range, for example: Rafale combat range is 1850km, however it's very range is 3700km. So regarding KF-21's 1800km is it combat range? or very range?

Engine thrust is not necessarily means more consumes fuel per km, it depend on efficiency. For exampe: EF-2000 Typhoon has greater TWR and EJ-200 produce more thrust dan M-88, and Typhoon is a little bit heavier, but Typhoon has greater very range than that of Rafale.


----------



## SgtGungHo

antonius123 said:


> How much fuel can KF-21 carry internal + external? Rafale can bring 16,550 liter.
> 
> Also if we compare range, we need to compare the same range, for example: Rafale combat range is 1850km, however it's very range is 3700km. So regarding KF-21's 1800km is it combat range? or very range?
> 
> Engine thrust is not necessarily means more consumes fuel per km, it depend on efficiency. For exampe: EF-2000 Typhoon has greater TWR and EJ-200 produce more thrust dan M-88, and Typhoon is a little bit heavier, but Typhoon has greater very range than that of Rafale.



KF-21 can carry 5,400 kg (12,000 lb) of fuel internally and 4 × 480 gal tanks, totaling 5,914 kg (13,040 lb). Rafale that was suggested to Indian Air Force was advertised to carry 4,700 kg of fuel internally and up to 6,700 kg of fuel externally. So KF-21 can carry more fuel intenrally, but if you are asking the maximum fuel then it is about the same.

Combat radius of KF-21 is not advertised, but Ferry range is already posted for being 2,900 km. 

No, Eurofigther's actual ferry range is the same as KF-21 (2,900km) and their advertised ferry range (3,790 km) assumes Eurofighter uses 3 external fuel tanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

SgtGungHo said:


> Certainly. Rafale is inherently lighter and M88 consumes less fuel of being less powerful than F414. Hence, advertised ferry range of Rafale was said to be 3,700km (vs 2,900km of KF-21) when it was suggested to Indian Air Force.
> 
> However, it also means KF-21 is probably better in acceleration & maneuverability (for having a significantly better T/W ratio) though I am not sure it does mean much as almost all air combats are conducted in BVR.



I believe with the development of ECM (Electronic Countermeasure), maneuverability is very important, and I believe it is one of the reason the designer make the plane quite maneuverable and officially said KF-21 is better than F 35 in this aspect.


----------



## Indos



Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


----------



## CountStrike

English Version for KF 21 Opening Ceremony

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ali_Baba

Indos said:


> View attachment 733586



Wow - did not realise it was so close in its approach to the F22 !!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Ali_Baba said:


> Wow - did not realise it was so close in its approach to the F22 !!!!



It will likely have distictive design if the design team in the first phase of development that started in 2011 chooses canard design plane as they have been considering and examining quite long as well the canard design.


----------



## Whizzack

Indos said:


> It will likely have distictive design if the design team in the first phase of development that started in 2011 chooses canard design plane as they have been considering and examining quite long as well the canard design.



In that case we'll end up having a baby J-20 instead of a baby F-22... 😁 






The C100 basic design was selected to be developed into the KF-21

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

This news from Korea told that Indonesian engineers will go back to Korea soon inshaAllah.


*S. Korea, Indonesia to soon resume fighter jet negotiations: official*

09:00 April 16, 2021


SEOUL, April 16 (Yonhap) -- South Korea and Indonesia will soon resume talks about their joint fighter jet development project, an official said, after Indonesia's defense minister attended the jet's prototype unveiling ceremony in a show of commitment to the project.

Indonesia is a partner for the 8.8 trillion won (US$7.9 billion) project, called IF-X in the country, but doubts have grown over Jakarta's commitment to the joint program after the Southeast Asian country stopped making payments for the 20 percent of the total development cost it had promised to shoulder.

Last week, Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto visited South Korea to attend the unveiling ceremony of a prototype of the fighter jet. His attendance was seen as meaning that Jakarta remains committed to the project.

"When the minister visited, we have agreed to promptly push ahead with the negotiations at the working-level," an arms procurement agency official said.

The two countries launched negotiations on the fighter jet project in 2018 after Indonesian President Joko Widodo sought to adjust his country's burden, citing financial difficulties. They last held negotiations in September 2020.










This photo taken April 9, 2021, shows South Korea's first prototype of the next-generation KF-X fighter, officially dubbed KF-21 Boramae, being revealed at the Korea Aerospace Industries Co. facility in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province, southeastern South Korea. (Yonhap)
*1* of 2

"To an extent our budget allows, we will have to negotiate their payment schedule. Those issues are all on the table for discussions, and our government's stance is to push ahead to promptly come up with a deal," the official told reporters on condition of anonymity.

The official denied Indonesia demanded a cut in its contribution during Prabowo's visit, but the Indonesian minister asked for South Korea's support for a food estate program that he leads.

"The size, as well as whether the support will be provided in the form of a loan or a G2G, B2B partnership will all have to be decided through consultations," the official said.

*Indonesian engineers who had been participating in the development here returned home in March last year amid the coronavirus pandemic, but the Seoul official said they will come back soon as the two countries have agreed to go ahead with the joint program.

"Our plan is to have them back here by the second half of the year to normalize the business," he said. "After five rounds of negotiations, we are nearing an agreement to a certain extent."*

scaaet@yna.co.kr










S. Korea, Indonesia to soon resume fighter jet negotiations: official | Yonhap News Agency


By Choi Soo-hyang SEOUL, April 16 (Yonhap) -- South Korea and Indonesia will soon resume...




m-en.yna.co.kr


----------



## Ali_Baba

Given the size of the Indonesian economy, it is staggering they are having so many issues in financing their "20%" contribution to the project? How come?


----------



## Indos

Ali_Baba said:


> Given the size of the Indonesian economy, it is staggering they are having so many issues in financing their "20%" contribution to the project? How come?



It is because our current government has focus on economic development that give more impact on industrialization and infrastructure, our finance minister is also a woman that I think dont have much ambition on thing like this.

Jokowi administration will still disburse money for military project that requires much less money like MALE UCAV program but if the development cost is more than 100 million USD than this administration will have tendency not to fund it.

Even for high tech project that will potentially give much more return on investment (ROI) like N 245 and R 80 program, current administration is still reluctant to disburse money on the program. Despite of course around 114 Indonesian designers that previously work in KFX/IFX program make those two projects difficult to go ahead particularly during detail design phase that needs a lot of design engineers.

R 80 program is already passing PDR stage I believe and waiting funding for detail design phase and
prototyping


----------



## Indos

All major military acquisition rely on loan, buying from foreign source will be financed by the country who can provide affordable loan scheme and also buying equipment from local defense industry rely on domestic loan as well.

*2020-2024 period

Break down for Air Force (domestic loan= local made defense equipment)*







*Foreign Loan ( Foreign equipment) for Air Force*






Fighter only get 1.6 billion USD approval for 2020-2024, so only enough to buy 1 squadron of fighters (12-16 planes) until 2024.

@Ali_Baba

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos

KAI prepares smart factory for KF-21 fighter


Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) is planning to develop a new ‘smart factory’ to support the production of its new KF-21 Boramae fighter aircraft.



www.janes.com


----------



## Titanium100

I keep reading conflicting news on KFX. At hand it is massively overrated and another underrated. How good is the build in tech and how good is it's stealthiness. I heard it has it's petrol carrier outside rather then inside all in all can someone knowledgeable shed some light on this thing


----------



## Indos

Titanium100 said:


> I keep reading conflicting news on KFX. At hand it is massively overrated and another underrated. How good is the build in tech and how good is it's stealthiness. I heard it has it's petrol carrier outside rather then inside all in all can someone knowledgeable shed some light on this thing



KFX/IFX will be developed in stages and base on plan, it will have three blocks where second and third blocks will make it more stealthy. Internal weapon bay is for next block, but first block is already quite stealthy that make them can look and lock SU 35 faster than the opponent.

The airframe already use composite material and it can become stealthier if the plane only carry 4 missiles in the belly which is made in semi recessed (hiding the missile heat and also lowering RCS). The belly is in modular so block 1 logically can be upgraded into block 2 with internal weapon bay.

Since the start of development, the team has put target that block 1 can defeat SU 35, I can give you the news in 2014 where KFX/IFX engineer from Indonesian side talk about this.

This can be some kind of snapshot about KFX/IFX block 1 capability

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SgtGungHo

Titanium100 said:


> I keep reading conflicting news on KFX. At hand it is massively overrated and another underrated. How good is the build in tech and how good is it's stealthiness. I heard it has it's petrol carrier outside rather then inside all in all can someone knowledgeable shed some light on this thing



Think of cheaper F-18 E/F Super Hornet with a bit of reduced RCS. Nothing special.


----------



## dr.knowhow

SgtGungHo said:


> Think of cheaper F-18 E/F Super Hornet with a bit of reduced RCS. Nothing special.



I'm not so sure if it's really going to be cheaper since the Block 3 Super Bugs are around $50 million a piece flyaway. KF-21 is aimed to be something around $60 million flyaway. I would say more capable since it's got its weight saved from not being a ship-borne aircraft like Super Bug and probably has better kinematic capabilities, since better T/W ratio and more advance flight control model (uses the same on to the F-35, the NLDI model). Add to that the external design like serpentine ducts or planform alignment for reduced radar signature and IRST which the SH doesn't have, although sure, the SH also has some RO design features like planform alignment of its tails and intake or radar blockers in front of each engines. SH also has a higher internal fuel capacity.

Apart from that it's really a fighter jet that makes sense because its made by Koreans for Koreans. Probably costs less when counting the procurement costs compared to when procuring foreign fighter jets or potentially less life-cycle costs as well. Ease of maintenance (ROKAF receives parts for FA-50 in average within 30 days, compared to 200~300 days on average for KF-16s and F-15Ks depending on which part which even goes as far as 500 days or more in some cases) and also freedom to do whatever ROKAF wants with the aircraft helps as well, starting from simple maintenance to weapons integration and as far as modification or development of a new variant. US once got really pissed because they "suspected" that the Koreans tried to repair Tiger Eye IRSTs on F-15Ks by themselves. Remember, not found out but suspected. In the end they've found no evidence but put more restrictions regarding the maintenance of US made parts. No need to worry about those stuff concerning KF-21.

Problem is those merits mostly not apply for KF-21's potential customers. They would probably need to buy it for higher procurement costs compared to ROKAF. Parts delivery would take longer than for ROKAF and maintenance would be restricted in the same way some of the sensitive maintenance work of US made fighters in ROKAF are restricted. They would have no source codes for the mission computer and obviously wouldn't be able to modify anything unless agreed with Korea.

That's why I still think it's worth it while staying pessimistic about its success in sales overseas.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
2


----------



## dr.knowhow

Titanium100 said:


> I keep reading conflicting news on KFX. At hand it is massively overrated and another underrated. How good is the build in tech and how good is it's stealthiness. I heard it has it's petrol carrier outside rather then inside all in all can someone knowledgeable shed some light on this thing



It's your typical 4.5th generation aircraft with some more radical stealth feature compared to conventional 4.5th generation aircrafts.

It's avionics for instance is totally 4.5th gen. There's nothing to argue about it. It also lacks MAWS unlike some of the other 4.5th gen aircrafts like Rafale or EF Typhoon but at least Air National Guard F-15EXs and USN F-18E/F Block IIIs also don't have them so there's an excuse. 

Well at least it has higher data fusion capability compared to current 4.5th gen aircrafts like Rafale or Typhoon according to Korean documents, as it is JDL 1 compared to JDL 0 of euro canards. But euro canards are evolving as well becoming Tranche 4 or Standard F4 and beyond so they're keeping up the pace on their side as well. I've heard EPAWSS on F-15EX is bleeding edge as well and since the US wasn't willing to sell it to anybody apart from Japan until now, I would probably believe it. Then It would be hard to argue that the KF-21 EW suite would better the EPAWSS equipped F-15EXs since those technologies are basically from F-35.

I would still say that despite the lack of saw tooth panels, conformal IRST and stuff the overall design is way more inclined towards stealth and that's what makes this bird really stand out among other 4.5th gen aircrafts. It's got RAM almost everywhere and more important parts like wing leading edge are made out of RAS. It's also got a space reserved for IWB which is going to remain empty for a while. Theoretically speaking, there shouldn't be major issues installing the IWB to the pre-existing jets structurally, although some re-wiring would be needed to send power to ammunition ejectors, bay doors and other stuff. So who knows if it could be a bit more stealth in the future.

Anyways even without the IWB, I'll say a 4.5th generation aircraft with lower radar signature figures compared to legacy 4.5th gen fighters.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

I suggest the program to not producing 4,5, and 6 prototypes next year. Better wait for the flight test of two flying prototypes (+ 1 tested in land) and see whether there are some flaws or possible improvement we can posibly make after some flight test show some meaningful result.

Next 4,5, and 6 prototypes should be an improvement of the previous prototype and IMO should be started being built in middle of 2023 instead of 2022.

Any way we cannot trust wind tunnel test at 100 %, trust level should be at 80 %, while another 20 % should be taken from flight test to have more understanding about the design real performance.

So when the plane inshaAllah reach mass production phase, we can be hopefully sure that the design is really perfect and can reach all the requirements.

Basically T 50 Golden Eagle design is highly helped by a very experience Lockheed Martin. So KAI should not see T 50 Golden Eagle development as something that can be applied in KF 21/IFX by seeing how well the wind tunnel could predict the actual design performance of T 50 Golden Eagle that match the requirement.

KF 21/IFX design still get LM assistant since 2015 but the basic design is actually not much different with C 103 design that are made by smaller team of ADD Korea and Indonesian team (Indonesian Aerospace and Bandung Institute of Technology) where LM is not present.

Any way we cannot trust Western assistance 100 %, since it is not their own project and the plane can actually challenge F 35 and their other plane ( F16 block 70).

It is also happening when Indonesian Aerospace get some foreign assistance from Airbus when we develop N 250. We found some flaw on the plane when the flight test has been conducted in meaningful rate. Maybe it becomes the reason of why our newer project which is N 219 is 100 % developed by Indonesian engineers and expert with no foreign assistance and even no hired foreign engineer as well.

I believe Indonesian engineers who are part of KF 21/IFX development program really understand about this from the development of N 250 and N 219 that both have undergone wind tunnel and flight test at meaningful time (around 300 hours flight test).


----------



## Indos

Some Korean analyst/ strategists worried about Indonesian plan to acquire fighters at this period that could decrease Indonesian possible KF 21/IFX acquisition beside the already 48 planes.

As I said many times here, Jokowi administration is very economic centric and pro local defense industry. All defense acquisition should pass two stages, which is Planning Ministry and then Finance Ministry.

Planning ministry has previously accepted 1.6 billion USD foreign loan to finance fighter acquisition, but later Finance Ministry slash the figure further and only approve 1.1 billion USD. It is actually the same figure approved for SU 35 deal in Jokowi first term that has been now scrapped due to CATSAA.

*Source*









Rafale Bidikan Prabowo & Kemampuan Lenders Belanja Pertahanan


Isu pembiayaan Rafale adalah bagian dari ambisi Kementerian Pertahanan (Kemenhan) untuk melakukan percepatan pembangunan kekuatan melalui pengadaan senjata.




www.cnbcindonesia.com





The acquisition of 1.1 billion USD worth of fighters and its necessary equipment is still rational since it is intended for F 5 squadron where all the planes have been long grounded. The squadron now get 3 Su 32 planes which is borrowed from another squadron as interim solution to keep the F 5 squadron pilots skill while waiting for new fighters to come

Once the new administration appear in the late of 2024 inshaAllah, KF 21/IFX program will be near its completion for first block inshaAllah. As we have law to forbid any foreign defense equipment acquisition that can be replaced by products made by our local industry, so KF 21/IFX will likely become the bulk of fighters for Indonesia Air Force until the next decades.

IMO Prabowo is unlikely becoming next Indonesian President. Particularly after his reckless plan to acquire foreign made weapon using huge foreign loan get leak and now become backlash to his present image. I would say next month survey will likely see his popularity come down.

Recent survey has shown Anies Baswedan, Jakarta Governor, lead.


----------



## Indos



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## lcloo

CCTV reported that unconfirmed news circulating in Korea that they are taking apart the the just completed first proto=type for unknown reason. Awaiting photo confirmation.


----------



## Indos

lcloo said:


> CCTV reported that unconfirmed news circulating in Korea that they are taking apart the the just completed first proto=type for unknown reason. Awaiting photo confirmation.



The news saying that they try to assemble it too fast to match Prabowo visit is not true. Prabowo main reason to visit Korea at that time is to attend KFX/IFX roll out ceremony, not something else. The invitation to attend KFX/IFX roll out has been given by DAPA Minister who came to Jakarta in late March.

Jokowi also appeared on the ceremony through video call, so there is actually no real problem if the physical visit is not done because pandemic can always be used as reason.


----------



## Indos

This is the latest that second prototype has undergone ground test while first prototype you see on the background with blue color (prepared for flight test) is still completely in tact.


----------



## dr.knowhow

Indos said:


> The news saying that they try to assemble it too fast to match Prabowo visit is not true. Prabowo main reason to visit Korea at that time is to attend KFX/IFX roll out ceremony, not something else. The invitation to attend KFX/IFX roll out has been given by DAPA Minister who came to Jakarta in late March.
> 
> Jokowi also appeared on the ceremony through video call, so there is actually no real problem if the physical visit is not done because pandemic can always be used as reason.


These people wouldn't even know that the original roll-out schedule was around May lmao.

That dimwit retard who've reported this shit on Joongang daily was pretty salty about the fact that he wasn't allowed into the assembly line to take pictures when he visited KAI' factory before the roll out.

Now KAI's engineers are extremely pissed, I should say that I wouldn't be all that surprised if Joongang daily would not get invited for any future KF-X/IF-X related events. Of course that's a bit far fetched but it would be sweet to see such thing happen.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Recent Progress

There are 3 prototypes being assembled







And other two prototypes are under test, including the first prototype that can be seen as background of the second prototipe


----------



## Indos

*How S. Korean fighter jets are assembled by hand*​

Posted on : Jun.10,2021 17:19 KST Modified on : Jun.10,2021 17:19 KST 


*KAI opened up the KF-21 assembly line to the Hankyoreh*







The assembly line for prototypes of the KF-21 Boramae, a South Korea jet fighter (Kim Jae-seob/The Hankyoreh) 

I stood on the assembly line for prototypes of the KF-21 Boramae, a South Korea jet fighter, on Friday at a factory operated by Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province.

The first prototype was unveiled in a roll-out ceremony — sso-calledbecause the assembled plane “rolls out” on its own wheels — that was attended by South Korean President Moon Jae-in on April 9. The next five prototypes are being assembled on the line, with their guts on full display. The second prototype is currently being tested to check whether missiles can be loaded properly.






*KF-21 assembly line made public for the first time*

Airplane prototypes are made to run various tests, including test flights, before the planes go into mass production. The planes are opened up and taken apart to fix or replace flawed parts and then reassembled for more tests — a process that’s repeated over and over again.

Before the prototype plane can receive the OK for a test flight, it has to go through a year or so of ground testing.

KAI opened up the KF-21 assembly line to the Hankyoreh, the first South Korean newspaper to gain access to the site. The wings and fuselages of the fighters on the assembly line were all painted light green, reminding me of the tender leaves on a mulberry tree in the early spring.

Almost the entire assembly process is done by hand. Twenty engineers were working together to load missiles on the second prototype plane.





The TA-50 advanced training aircraft

“You may have imagined the kind of conveyer belt you might see on an automobile assembly line, but this is completely different,” said Kim Jun-myeong, head of KAI’s operations department, with a smile.

“Airplanes can’t be welded because they’re made of aluminum and other special materials. We assemble the fuselage and attach wings to the fuselage by drilling lots of holes on both sides for inserting rivets. A single wing needs more than 10,000 rivets,” said Lee Il-woo, a senior engineer on the KF-21 project.

Running my hand along the joint, I find the rivets as dense and neat as if they’d been sewn by machine. The rivets themselves are so smooth I can’t even feel them with my hand. If a rivet protruded even a single millimeter from the surface, it would create air resistance.

“The interior of the fighter has a complicated latticework designed to continue functioning even if some parts are damaged by gunfire during a dogfight. Electronic equipment runs from the cockpit to the ends of the wings,” Lee said.

There are nine fuel tanks attached to the plane, all of which are designed to be controlled electronically from the cockpit.





The KT-1 basic training aircraft


The electronic devices on the half-finished prototype I was shown on Friday were connected by cables of various lengths and thicknesses, which ran through conduits in the latticework, sometimes bunched up and sometimes spreading apart. Some of the cables were tied together at intervals of one to two centimeters and attached tightly to the latticework frame of the fuselage.

“Because the fighter is so fast and has to make sharp climbs repeatedly and steep dives, any slack in the wiring would make noise and cause damage,” Lee said.


*The prototype roll-out marks the midway point in development*

Once the fighter prototypes are equipped with various weapons, they’re moved to the location for ground testing. It took the first prototype around six years to reach this stage.

The first prototype is currently in the building opposite the assembly line, where its insides are exposed for ground testing. That alone will take another year or so.





The KUH Surion

“We keep running ground tests and making improvements until we decide that the fighter is ready to be fueled up and sent on a test flight. If we confirm that there are no problems after 2,341 hours of test flights, we begin mass production. In terms of the total development schedule, we’ve reached the midway point,” said Ryu Gwang-su, head of KAI’s fixed-wing project division.

Helicopters ordered by the police and the South Gyeongsang Province Fire Department are being assembled on the rotary-wing line. Just as with jet fighters, a considerable amount of this work is done by hand.

“These helicopters are civilian versions of the KUH Surion, a military transport helicopter that was developed to improve our defense capabilities. Before delivery, we add specific functions needed by our clients, which include fire departments, the police, and corporations,” said Kim, head of operations.





The KUH Surion is being assembled.

KAI divides its projects into “fixed-wing” and “rotary-wing” divisions, depending on the type of aircraft. The fixed-wing division mass produces the KT-1 basic training aircraft and the TA-50 advanced training aircraft both for the Republic of Korea Air Force and for export to countries such as Thailand and Malaysia. That led to the development of the KF-21 in partnership with Indonesia.

A total of 170 KF-21 fighters have been ordered. KAI plans to enter mass production in the middle of 2024, following ground testing and the first flight.





The prototype of the light-armed helicopter being developed by Korea Aerospace Industries

KAI’s rotary-wing division supplies the Surion transport helicopter to the South Korean military and foreign governments, including Cambodia and Indonesia. Division engineers are currently developing a small attack helicopter.

“When the advanced training aircraft finished its first flight and came down the runway, staff were crying and hugging each other on the factory roof,” Kim said.

By Kim Jae-seob, senior staff writer









How S. Korean fighter jets are assembled by hand


KAI opened up the KF-21 assembly line to the Hankyoreh




english.hani.co.kr


----------



## Indos

Indos said:


> Some Korean analyst/ strategists worried about Indonesian plan to acquire fighters at this period that could decrease Indonesian possible KF 21/IFX acquisition beside the already 48 planes.
> 
> As I said many times here, Jokowi administration is very economic centric and pro local defense industry. All defense acquisition should pass two stages, which is Planning Ministry and then Finance Ministry.
> 
> Planning ministry has previously accepted 1.6 billion USD foreign loan to finance fighter acquisition, but later Finance Ministry slash the figure further and only approve 1.1 billion USD. It is actually the same figure approved for SU 35 deal in Jokowi first term that has been now scrapped due to CATSAA.
> 
> *Source*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rafale Bidikan Prabowo & Kemampuan Lenders Belanja Pertahanan
> 
> 
> Isu pembiayaan Rafale adalah bagian dari ambisi Kementerian Pertahanan (Kemenhan) untuk melakukan percepatan pembangunan kekuatan melalui pengadaan senjata.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbcindonesia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The acquisition of 1.1 billion USD worth of fighters and its necessary equipment is still rational since it is intended for F 5 squadron where all the planes have been long grounded. The squadron now get 3 Su 32 planes which is borrowed from another squadron as interim solution to keep the F 5 squadron pilots skill while waiting for new fighters to come
> 
> Once the new administration appear in the late of 2024 inshaAllah, KF 21/IFX program will be near its completion for first block inshaAllah. As we have law to forbid any foreign defense equipment acquisition that can be replaced by products made by our local industry, so KF 21/IFX will likely become the bulk of fighters for Indonesia Air Force until the next decades.
> 
> IMO Prabowo is unlikely becoming next Indonesian President. Particularly after his reckless plan to acquire foreign made weapon using huge foreign loan get leak and now become backlash to his present image. I would say next month survey will likely see his popularity come down.
> 
> Recent survey has shown Anies Baswedan, Jakarta Governor, lead.



Latest statement from Planning Ministry, Today, has said Jokowi administration only approve 20 billion USD for defense procurement until 2024. AlhamduliLLAH.

So basically it is still like previous plan where fighter acquisition only get approval of 1.1 billion USD from Finance Minister (from 1.6 billion USD approval from Planning Ministry).

From 20 billion USD loan, some portion will be financed by local bank to buy local defense products, so foreign defense equipment will not likely exceed15 billion USD, it could be less than 15 billion USD that will be used for Air Force, Navy, and Army.

He said in the parliament Today, so what has become Prabowo plan is very unlikely to be realized inshaAllah. Prabowo previously stated he wants to spend around 120 billion USD within Jokowi second term (2019-2024) through foreign loan.

*Source*









Jokowi Cuma Anggarkan Rp298 T Buat Belanja Militer


Menteri PPN Suharso Monoarfa mengungkapkan anggaran belanja militer Indonesia masih di bawah 1 persen dari Pendapatan Domestik Bruto (PDB).




www.cnnindonesia.com





*Finance Minister rejected 56 foreign loan proposal for defense program*

Latest revelation also shows Finance Minister rejected 56 defense acquisition program proposal that will be finance by foreign loan (proposed by Prabowo/Minister of Defense).

Even in this document, Jane Defense journalist hasnt found fighter program acquisition, while Indonesian other forum member who has connection to Planning Ministary and has seen blue book (approve program until 2024 by Planning Minister (first stage of screening) ) and green book (approved program for this year by Finance Minister (last stage of screening) ) also hasnt found combat aircraft program as well.

*Source:*






Indonesia approves USD700 million in foreign loans for aerial tanker buy


The Indonesian Ministry of Finance (MoF) has granted approval for the country to obtain up to USD700 million in foreign loans to procure two aerial tankers for the...



www.janes.com





This shows Jokowi, look like, wants to see KF21/IFX as Indonesian backbone fighters which is inline with what he has said during KF21/IFX roll out ceremony.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Indos

Indos said:


> Latest statement from Planning Ministry, Today, has said Jokowi administration only approve 20 billion USD for defense procurement until 2024. AlhamduliLLAH.
> 
> So basically it is still like previous plan where fighter acquisition only get approval of 1.1 billion USD from Finance Minister (from 1.6 billion USD approval from Planning Ministry).
> 
> From 20 billion USD loan, some portion will be financed by local bank to buy local defense products, so foreign defense equipment will not likely exceed15 billion USD, it could be less than 15 billion USD that will be used for Air Force, Navy, and Army.
> 
> He said in the parliament Today, so what has become Prabowo plan is very unlikely to be realized inshaAllah. Prabowo previously stated he wants to spend around 120 billion USD within Jokowi second term (2019-2024) through foreign loan.
> 
> *Source*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jokowi Cuma Anggarkan Rp298 T Buat Belanja Militer
> 
> 
> Menteri PPN Suharso Monoarfa mengungkapkan anggaran belanja militer Indonesia masih di bawah 1 persen dari Pendapatan Domestik Bruto (PDB).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnnindonesia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Finance Minister rejected 56 foreign loan proposal for defense program*
> 
> Latest revelation also shows Finance Minister rejected 56 defense acquisition program proposal that will be finance by foreign loan (proposed by Prabowo/Minister of Defense).
> 
> Even in this document, Jane Defense journalist hasnt found fighter program acquisition, while Indonesian other forum member who has connection to Planning Ministary and has seen blue book (approve program until 2024 by Planning Minister (first stage of screening) ) and green book (approved program for this year by Finance Minister (last stage of screening) ) also hasnt found combat aircraft program as well.
> 
> *Source:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesia approves USD700 million in foreign loans for aerial tanker buy
> 
> 
> The Indonesian Ministry of Finance (MoF) has granted approval for the country to obtain up to USD700 million in foreign loans to procure two aerial tankers for the...
> 
> 
> 
> www.janes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This shows Jokowi, look like, wants to see KF21/IFX as Indonesian backbone fighters which is inline with what he has said during KF21/IFX roll out ceremony.



This I will give the allocation for Air Force for foreign loan which is 8.6 billion USD (2020- 2024), Navy will get 7.5 billion USD foreign loan, and Army will get 4.4 billion USD foreign loan.

TNI AU: Air Force. TNI AL: Navy, TNI AD: Army
Total Foreign loan. Milyar means Billion. This is in Billion USD






Fighter get 1.6 billion USD allocation for foreign loan (2020-2024 period)

These are the ones that have got approval from Planning Ministry, but the real allocation that will be disbursed will still depend on Finance Minister and the amount will be approved gradually every year and will depend on overall economy condition.

Fighter allocation, for example, according to Alman Helvast (Defense consultant) who has source in Finance Ministry has been slashed into 1.1 billion USD. You can see the source in my quoted post in post 319

This is the allocation for Air Force for foreign loan (approved by Planning Minister) until 2024, still Finance Minister still has veto to slash it further or not.

Milliar means Billion. This is in billion USD






There is domestic funding as well for local defense product, but I dont put it here since it is not relevant with KFX/IFX thread


----------



## Indos

AlhamduliLLAH

*Top diplomats of S. Korea, Indonesia agree on close cooperation for joint fighter project*
*All News* 19:44 June 25, 2021





Foreign Minister Chung Eui-yong (L, center) holds talks with his Indonesian counterpart, Retno L.P. Marsudi, in Jakarta on June 25, 2021, in this photo provided by the foreign ministry. (PHOTO NOT FOR SALE) (Yonhap)

SEOUL, June 25 (Yonhap) -- The top diplomats of South Korea and Indonesia agreed Friday to closely cooperate to smoothly proceed with joint fighter jet development and other mutually beneficial projects, the foreign ministry said.

Foreign Minister Chung Eui-yong and his Indonesian counterpart, Retno L.P. Marsudi, held talks to discuss bilateral cooperation and regional and global issues. Indonesia was the last leg of his five-day trip to Southeast Asia that also included visits to Vietnam and Singapore.

"The ministers assessed outcomes of cooperation that the two countries have achieved in the defense industry sector, which symbolizes their strategic trust," the ministry said in a press release.

"Especially, the ministers agreed to closely cooperate to make sure that mutually beneficial, substantive cooperation projects like the KF-21/IF-X project will proceed smoothly," it added.

Under a bilateral arrangement for the KF-21/IF-X project, Indonesia had promised to shoulder 20 percent of the cost for the development of fighters. But it stopped making payments after investing 227.2 billion won (US$201 million).

The two ministers also agreed to expand cooperation in the areas of vaccine procurement and public health to overcome the new coronavirus. To that end, Chung said that Seoul plans to offer Indonesia $4 million worth of items, including COVID-19 diagnostic kits, this year.

Chung pledged to continue close exchanges with Indonesia, calling the country a "core" partner of Seoul's New Southern Policy aimed at strengthening ties with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

Chung also paid a courtesy call on President Joko Widodo and stressed that the two countries' relations have been at their best in recent years.










Top diplomats of S. Korea, Indonesia agree on close cooperation for joint fighter project | Yonhap News Agency


SEOUL, June 25 (Yonhap) -- The top diplomats of South Korea and Indonesia agreed Friday to...




en.yna.co.kr


----------



## Ali_Baba

> Under a bilateral arrangement for the KF-21/IF-X project, Indonesia had promised to shoulder 20 percent of the cost for the development of fighters. *But it stopped making payments after investing 227.2 billion won (US$201 million).*



.. and Indonesia needs to show good faith by fixing this problem asap.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Indos

Ali_Baba said:


> .. and Indonesia needs to show good faith by fixing this problem asap.



The financial obligation of Indonesia in this program is likely to be fixed after the renegotiation is concluded inshaAllah. August is the time where both parties will have the meeting again.

IMO Indonesia is getting more serious and has prepared the engineers to come back to South Korea in the second semester this year after their departure in March 2020 (after the design is completed in 2019 September, as Indonesian engineers previously departed to South Korea are design engineers and other engineers related to design testing ).

According to our source, Finance Minister has also disbursed money for LIFT aircraft. I dont know whether it is 1.1 billion USD that previously stated by Alman Helvas as budget for Fighter acquisition (since there is no combat plane acquisition program being approved by planning Ministry until 2024 according to Indonesian member in other forum who has seen the document), or it is coming from other budget.

It is likely T 50 from KAI and it means we will give KAI another significant sales for their plane. Actually it is brillian to spend on LIFT aircraft Today since we are preparing to have at least 48 KF21/IFX until 2035 and more KF 21/IFX after 2035 (as stated by Jokowi during KF 21 roll out ceremony).

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Indos

Previously reported by Jane Defense, so in this report Indonesian engineers who contribute on KF 21/IFX development (particularly during design phase) is more than 140 engineers. They return to Indonesia after the prototype start being built in the beginning of 2020

-----------------------------------------------------


29 April 2021

*Indonesia looks to restart work on KF-21 project*

by Jon Grevatt


Aerospace engineers from Indonesia could soon return to South Korea to recommence work on the development of the KF-21 fighter aircraft, _Janes_ understands.

More than 140 Indonesian personnel returned home in March 2020 because of the Covid-19 pandemic but their return to South Korea could soon be facilitated through government-level talks between the two countries, official sources confirmed to _Janes_.

However, a stumbling block to co-operation could be funding and the scope to which Indonesia agrees to support the KF-21 development programme (also named KF-X) going forward.






Indonesia looks to restart work on KF-21 project


Aerospace engineers from Indonesia could soon return to South Korea to recommence work on the development of the KF-21 fighter aircraft, Janes understands.



www.janes.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Indos

This is in Korea Aerospace facility






















KF21 지상하중 테스트


지상진동시험용 구조시제 1호기비행하중 보정시험을 위해 시험고정구를 장착하는 구조시제 2호기 ...



bemil.chosun.com


----------



## Ali_Baba

State of the art manufacturing facilities, esp when you compare with HAL ..


----------



## CIA Mole

lol what’s with all these fake indian twitter accounts

i’m guessing this is why modiji cant ban twitter


----------



## Titanium100

CIA Mole said:


> lol what’s with all these fake indian twitter accounts
> 
> i’m guessing this is why modiji cant ban twitter
> 
> View attachment 760452



I don't know whether this is fake or not but quite brutish attempt by NK to hack South Korea KFX data


----------



## Indos

*KF21/IFX specification :

1. AESA Radar and Advance Avionics
2. Advance Precision Weapons 
3. 10 Weapon Hard points
4. High Maneuverability 
5. Enhance Survivability
6. Advance Support Features 
7. High Operational Efficiency
8. Single & Tandem seats Aircraft*

Max. Thrust : 44,000 lb

Ferry Range : 1,550 nm ( 2,870 KM)

Max. Speed : 1,400 mph ( 1.82 Mach )

Max. Payload : 17,000 lb

MTOW : 56,400 lb









KAI KOREA AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES, LTD.


KAI, Korea Aerospace Industries, Commercial Aircraft, Commercial Helicopter, Military Aircraft, Military Helicopter, Unmanned Aerial Vehicle, Defence and Space, Aircraft Company, Aerostructure, Satellite, Space Launch Vehicle, MRO, Training System, KF21, KF-21, T-50, FA-50, KT-1, KC-100, LAH...




www.koreaaero.com


----------



## Indos

*Compare with F 35 A*

Max. Thrust : 40,000 lb ( with afterburner )

Ferry Range : 1,200 nm ( 2,200 km )

Max. Speed : 1,200 mph ( 1.5 Mach )

Max. Payload : 18,000 lb ( 8,160 kg)

MTOW : 60,000 lb (27,216kg)


----------



## Cossack25A1

Apparently, it seems that aside from South Korea and Indonesia, the KF-21 is planned to be exported to other countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Cossack25A1 said:


> Apparently, it seems that aside from South Korea and Indonesia, the KF-21 is planned to be exported to other countries.
> 
> View attachment 765214



South Korea, Indonesia, Philippine, Malaysia, Thailand flags were shown during the roll out event. 


-------------------------------------------------------------------

South Korea’s first homegrown fighter jet, the KF-21 Boramae, will be ready to fly with weapons aboard by 2028, the arms procurement agency said Sunday.

*“We will come up with air-to-air missiles by 2026 and air-to-surface missiles by 2028,” the Defense Acquisition Program Administration said.*










Weapons on Korean fighter jet ready by 2028


South Korea’s first homegrown fighter jet, the KF-21 Boramae, will be ready to fly with weapons aboard by 2028, the arms procurement agency said Sunday. “We will come up with air-to-air missiles by 2026 and air-to-surface missiles by 2028,” the Defense Acquisition Program Administration said...



news.koreaherald.com


----------



## Cossack25A1

Indos said:


> South Korea, Indonesia, Philippine, Malaysia, Thailand flags were shown during the roll out event.
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> South Korea’s first homegrown fighter jet, the KF-21 Boramae, will be ready to fly with weapons aboard by 2028, the arms procurement agency said Sunday.
> 
> *“We will come up with air-to-air missiles by 2026 and air-to-surface missiles by 2028,” the Defense Acquisition Program Administration said.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weapons on Korean fighter jet ready by 2028
> 
> 
> South Korea’s first homegrown fighter jet, the KF-21 Boramae, will be ready to fly with weapons aboard by 2028, the arms procurement agency said Sunday. “We will come up with air-to-air missiles by 2026 and air-to-surface missiles by 2028,” the Defense Acquisition Program Administration said...
> 
> 
> 
> news.koreaherald.com



The main question now is if the PH Air Force will be buying it, as of now it is still a deadlock between the F-16V and JAS-39C, with the latter being more likely due to the increased price of the F-16V.


----------



## Indos

Cossack25A1 said:


> The main question now is if the PH Air Force will be buying it, as of now it is still a deadlock between the F-16V and JAS-39C, with the latter being more likely due to the increased price of the F-16V.



If the PH Air Force pick JAS-39C then it will likely to get interested in KF 21/IFX program as the plane is also inshaAllah much cheaper than Western 5 generation fighters and has engine communality with JAC-39C, not to mention PH has already chosen FA 50 and possibly for lead trainer will also be with T 50 Golden Eagle.

SAB JAS 39 C is still using GE F 404 but this engine is still similar with higher thrust GE F 414 that is used by KF21/IFX

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cossack25A1

Indos said:


> If the PH Air Force pick JAS-39C then it will likely to get interested in KF 21/IFX program as the plane is also inshaAllah much cheaper than Western 5 generation fighters and has engine communality with JAC-39C, not to mention PH has already chosen FA 50 and possibly for lead trainer will also be with T 50 Golden Eagle.
> 
> SAB JAS 39 C is still using GE F 404 but this engine is still similar with higher thrust GE F 414 that is used by KF21/IFX


That's the likely plan specially when 2030s come and the JAS-39 may not be able to survive in an airspace where there are many 5th-gen fighters flying.

My guess is that once the KF-21 is in service in SK and Indonesian air forces, the PH Air Force may choose it instead of buying more FA-50s.


----------



## CIA Mole

i dont see this becoming an export success with F35 costs decreasing


----------



## Indos

CIA Mole said:


> i dont see this becoming an export success with F35 costs decreasing



I dont see F 35 price is decreasing despite LM keep promoting something like that. Just wait for Greece to open up their F 35 deal so that we can assess whether it is true or not. Just as an example of how LM offer their F 16 V to PH which is also quite expensive despite F 16 have been produced so many

UAE F 35 deal is also very expensive for 50 F 35 plane......

---------------------------------------------------

The jets are a major component of a $23 billion sale of high-tech armaments from General Atomics, Lockheed Martin Corp and Raytheon Technologies Corp to the UAE announced this fall.

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-emirates-f35-int-idUSKBN29P2C0

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Indos said:


> The financial obligation of Indonesia in this program is likely to be fixed after the renegotiation is concluded inshaAllah. August is the time where both parties will have the meeting again.
> 
> IMO Indonesia is getting more serious and has prepared the engineers to come back to South Korea in the second semester this year after their departure in March 2020 (after the design is completed in 2019 September, as Indonesian engineers previously departed to South Korea are design engineers and other engineers related to design testing ).
> 
> According to our source, Finance Minister has also disbursed money for LIFT aircraft. I dont know whether it is 1.1 billion USD that previously stated by Alman Helvas as budget for Fighter acquisition (since there is no combat plane acquisition program being approved by planning Ministry until 2024 according to Indonesian member in other forum who has seen the document), or it is coming from other budget.
> 
> It is likely T 50 from KAI and it means we will give KAI another significant sales for their plane. Actually it is brillian to spend on LIFT aircraft Today since we are preparing to have at least 48 KF21/IFX until 2035 and more KF 21/IFX after 2035 (as stated by Jokowi during KF 21 roll out ceremony).



AlhamduliLLAH


*Indonesian engineers to return to S. Korea for KF-21 joint development*​
11 Agustus 2021







SEOUL (Yonhap) -- Indonesian engineers who left South Korea last year amid speculation the Southeast Asian country was seeking to quit their joint fighter jet development will return this month after Jakarta reaffirmed its commitment to the project, the arms procurement agency said Wednesday.

According to the Defense Acquisition Program Administration, 32 Indonesian engineers are undergoing administrative procedures, such as visa application, to return to the Korea Aerospace Industries headquarters in the southern city of Sacheon.

Indonesia agreed to partner in South Korea's KF-21 project aimed at developing a new fighter jet by 2026, and promised to shoulder 20 percent of the total development cost of 8.8 trillion won (US$7.6 billion), or about 1.7 trillion won.

But Indonesia's 114-strong engineering team returned home in March last year after the country's failure to make payments gave rise to speculation that it could quit the program. Indonesia stopped making payments after investing 227.2 billion won, with around 700 billion won overdue.

The Indonesian government reaffirmed its continued commitment to the KF-21/IF-X joint development, and sought cooperation for its engineers' prompt return to South Korea," the agency said in a release.

South Korea decided to accept the request, despite the unsolved payment issue, in order to swiftly normalize the joint business.

*Starting with the 32 engineers, around 100 personnel will be back at the Sacheon plant by the end of the year.*

The two countries were seeking to hold another round of negotiations to resolve the payment issue but the meeting could not take place due to the coronavirus situation.

"We will do our best to hold working-level talks as soon as possible and conclude the discussions on the payment issue," Jung Kwang-sun, heading the KF-21 program at the agency, said.

South Korea has been working on the KF-21 project since 2015 to develop a homegrown cutting-edge fighter aircraft to replace the Air Force's aging fleet of F-4 and F-5 jets.

In April, South Korea unveiled a prototype of the gray-colored jet and its official name, KF-21 Boramae.

Ground tests are currently under way and the first flight test is scheduled for next year.

When the development is complete, 40 units are planned to be delivered to the Air Force by 2028 and another 80 units by 2032, officials said.

(Yohhap)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

12 AUGUST 2021

*Indonesia reaffirms commitment to KF-21 fighter, engineers to re-join project*
by Jon Grevatt

Engineers from Indonesia are set to re-join the programme led by Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) to develop the KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter aircraft.

The development follows Indonesia's recent “reaffirmation” of its commitment to the joint programme, South Korea's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) said on 11 August.





Technicians from Indonesia are preparing to re-engage in South Korea's programme to develop the KF-21 fighter aircraft. (KAI)

DAPA said that 32 Indonesian engineers are preparing to restart work on the KF-21 project and that their number will grow to about 100 by the end of the year.

DAPA added that the officials are currently preparing visa documentation and will be required to quarantine for two weeks before restarting work on the programme.

A spokesperson from KAI told _Janes _that the returning Indonesian personnel will resume work collaborating with KAI counterparts on KF-21 production and ground- and flight-testing activities.

The spokesperson added that in the coming months KAI will support Indonesian engineers' understanding of work undertaken since their absence. Korean language studies are also under consideration.

In its statement, DAPA said the technicians return to work on the KF-21 follows the Indonesian government's decision in April to “reaffirm its continued participation in the joint development” programme.

The agency said that Jakarta had also requested that Indonesian engineers return “as soon as possible” to South Korea to work on the aircraft. “In response, the South Korean government agreed that the return of Indonesian technical staff is required for the stabilisation of the joint development programme,” said DAPA.

South Korea and Indonesia agreed in 2015 to invest KRW8.8 trillion (USD7.6 billion) to develop the KF-21, with Jakarta paying 20% of development costs in return for access to technologies.






Indonesia reaffirms commitment to KF-21 fighter, engineers to re-join project


Engineers from Indonesia are set to re-join the programme led by Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) to develop the KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter aircraft.



www.janes.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Indos

*Exclusive] Applying ‘stealth paint’ to ‘KF-21 Boramae’*

Reporter Shin, Shin | Input 2021-08-13 03:10:00







It is known that the first domestic fighter 'KF-21 Boramae', the prototype of which was unveiled in April of this year, is highly likely to have some stealth performance. Last year, the domestic stealth paint development was completed and the performance was proven, so they plan to apply it before mass production of the KF-21.

According to a related source on the 10th, the development of a paint with radio wave absorption function (RAM paint) that Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) entrusted with a research service entrusted to a private company was completed last year and its performance was recognized in the subsequent evaluation. The source said, "We are in the stage of applying (paint technology)." It is said that the performance will be verified by applying paint to the prototype in the process of developing the KF-21, which will undergo 2,200 flight tests over 4 years from July next year after ground testing.

The paint applied to the surface of the fuselage is the core technology of the stealth aircraft, along with the internal weapon window and the infrared emission suppression engine. The reason that the authorities initially started developing paints in Korea was because it was not easy to introduce them overseas due to technology leakage. Authorities believe that this domestically developed paint will greatly reduce the 'detection rate', which reduces the possibility of being detected by enemy radar.

The F-35A, a representative stealth aircraft, has a radar cross section (RCS) of 0.001 m2, the value of which the electromagnetic field emitted by the radar meets an object and returns back, and the F-22 'Raptor' reaches 0.0001 m2. It is said that these fighters are detected on the radar at the level of a 'golf ball'. Another source said, “It is not as good as the fifth-generation fighters such as the F-35A, but the detection rate will be significantly lower than that of existing air force fighters such as the KF-16. I think this will be the case.”

Although not developed as a stealth aircraft, the KF-21, which is similar in appearance to the F-22, is evaluated to have the highest specifications as a 4.5th generation fighter except for the 5th generation. The South Korean military plans to deploy 40 units by 2028 and 120 units by 2032 in total.

Read more: 









[단독]‘KF-21 보라매’에 ‘스텔스 페인트’ 입힌다


올해 4월 시제1호기가 공개된 첫 국산 전투기 ‘KF-21 보라매’가 스텔스 성능을 일부 갖출 가능성이 높은 것으로 알려졌다. 지난해 국내 스텔스 도료 개발이 완료됐고 성능이 입…



www.donga.com


----------



## KampfAlwin

I sort of hope Brunei could procure some of this aircraft. We have pilots that have trained in fighter jets, yet we don’t have jets! Not even a trainer!


----------



## Indos

KampfAlwin said:


> I sort of hope Brunei could procure some of this aircraft. We have pilots that have trained in fighter jets, yet we don’t have jets! Not even a trainer!



Yup, Brunei at least needs to have 8 T 50 Golden Eagle attack version like Indonesia so at least it can launch sidewinder, bomb, and bullets. Good for training, patrol, and shows present in Brunei SCS territory and EEZ.

Later in 2030, if KF 21/IFX program is InshaAllah successful and runs on shcedule, Brunei should have 16 KF 21 fighter as it is important to show present particularly in SCS areas. It is also as part of the contribution of Brunei to strenghten our own region in SEA.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KampfAlwin

Indos said:


> Yup, Brunei at least needs to have 8 T 50 Golden Eagle attack version like Indonesia so at least it can launch sidewinder, bomb, and bullets. Good for training, patrol, and shows present in Brunei SCS territory and EEZ.
> 
> Later in 2030, if KF 21/IFX program is InshaAllah successful and runs on shcedule, Brunei should have 16 KF 21 fighter as it is important to show present particularly in SCS areas. It is also as part of the contribution of Brunei to strenghten our own region in SEA.


Agreed, plus jet parts would come from ID so it would be easy logistics. After all, we already are buying ID weapons, vehicles, planes etc from Pindad and more. Hopefully, my country's economy improves for it to happen.

CN-235 we bought some time ago from ID:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

KampfAlwin said:


> Agreed, plus jet parts would come from ID so it would be easy logistics. After all, we already are buying ID weapons, vehicles, planes etc from Pindad and more. Hopefully, my country's economy improves for it to happen.
> 
> CN-235 we bought some time ago from ID:
> 
> View attachment 771437



Yup, I hope Brunei can mimic the success of UAE or Singapore. In term of airspace, Singapore doesnt have much since the island is surrounded by both Malaysia and Indonesia. This is why they do the practice in Australia and USA and put their fighters there. Brunei in the other hand has quite enough territory in SCS and its airspace is also not as crowded as in Singapore (as Singapore is an air transport hub in SEA region).

Talking about parts of KF 21, majority will come from Korea and some from Indonesia, although if the sales is quite tight, Indonesia could come up as production back up for other parts that are produced in Korea. It is because the strategic cooperation has already been there since 2015 with KAI and 2011 with ADD Korea, like for instant we dont develop any plane with Boeing but Indonesia Aerospace supply fuselage parts for Boeing planes as well.

The KF 21 plane for SEA market could potentially come from Indonesia since renegotiation is still going on and Indonesia is keen to have export license, just wait the renegotiation conclusion inshaAllah in this year hopefully.

Although personally I think export license should not become our main issue since Indonesia Aerospace production rate will likely be quite high to produce KF 21 in the country for our Air Force needs and also if the demand for N 219 planes is sky rocketing ( both for basic and amphibious version), as we know civilian plane has more potential to get huge market if the plane is proven to be good with competitive price tag compared to military planes ( fighter or transport type ).

I think the maintenance is also very important and Indonesia Aerospace has good track record in relation to Brunei CN 235 plane. Their technicians are quick in respond to fix Brunei grounded CN 235 once Brunei AF asked it, after fixing the problem in Brunei, the plane is flown to Indonesia Aerospace facility in Bandung to undergo major overhaul and only about a month the plane is already flown back to Brunei.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1327975763350614018

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

*KF-21 joint development' 30 Indonesian engineers departed for Korea (comprehensive)*
*Returned after withdrawal in March of last year... 700 billion won in delinquency, renegotiation to resume soon*


Input: 2021.08.28 00:22:00








KF-21 joint development' 30 Indonesian technicians to Korea... restart business

30 Indonesian technicians participating in the joint development project of the Korean fighter KF-21/IF-X boarded a flight to Korea on the night of the 27th.

The joint development project has been restarted after a year and five months since the Indonesian government brought in 114 local engineers from Sacheon, Gyeongsangnam-do, in March last year due to the corona crisis.








Prototype of Korean fighter Boramae (KF-21) unveiled on April 9

According to the Defense Acquisition Program Administration and the Korean Embassy in Indonesia on the 27th, 30 Indonesian technicians participating in the KF-21 project departed on the Asiana Airlines flight from Jakarta to Incheon at 9:50 pm (local time) that day.

Previously, 33 people applied to the embassy for a visa to work in Korea on the 10th of this month and were recently issued a visa.

Indonesia has dispatched 114 engineers to Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) in Sacheon, Gyeongsangnam-do since the second half of 2016 to develop the KF-21, but withdrew all of them due to the corona crisis in March last year.

Some of the 30 people were the same as those who had withdrawn, and some were known as new ones.

“The number of returning Indonesian technicians is expected to increase to 100 by the end of this year, starting with 30,” the DAPA said.

Indonesian technicians will be quarantined for two weeks after arriving in Korea before being put into field work.








'KF-21 joint development' 30 Indonesian technicians to the airport to go to Korea

The KF-21/IF-X project is to research and develop a 4.5th generation fighter with a joint cost of 8.8 trillion won between Korea and Indonesia from 2015 to 2028.

Indonesia plans to invest 1.7 trillion won (20% of the total project cost) and produce 48 next-generation fighters in Indonesia after receiving one prototype and technical data.

Indonesia delayed the payment of contributions from the second half of 2017 due to economic circumstances, and so far, 74 billion won has been delayed.

At the request of President Joko Widodo, the renegotiation of the levy was in progress, but the defense minister was replaced by Prabowo Subianto, and as the corona crisis erupted, a settlement was not reached.

Minister Prabowo showed a friendly attitude through several meetings with Defense Acquisition Program Administration Commissioner Kang Eun-ho, Ambassador Park Tae-seong, and Defense Adviser Jeong Yeon-su.

Following the launch of the first prototype in April of this year, he visited Korea and decided to continue participating in the development project.








Technicians at Soekarno-Hatta Airport to check-in for a passenger flight to Incheon on the 27th

The two sides plan to continue renegotiation in the near future, and prior to this, the Indonesian government decided to send some technical staff to Korea to show their will for the joint project.

Since last year, Indonesia has been spending most of its government budget on responding to the Corona crisis, causing setbacks in most SOC (social infrastructure) projects, such as the construction of a new capital.









'KF-21 공동개발' 인도네시아 기술진 30명, 한국으로 출발(종합)


작년 3월 철수 후 복귀…분담금 7천억 연체, 재협상 곧 재개




www.mk.co.kr





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I need to clarify the news report. Indonesian engineers have already been participating in the development since 2011, not 2016 as this news report stated. KF 21/IFX is first developed by ADD Korea and Indonesia Aerospace that resulted in C 103 design that become the basis of KF 21/IFX before it gets refinement after KAI and LM join the program since 2015


----------



## Indos

Despite Indonesian Aerospace engineers are coming home in May 2020 after the completion of design in the end of 2019 (CDR is in September 2019). The work keep continuing and being sent to KAI from Indonesian Aerospace office. It is related to tandem seat prototype where the construction hasnt been made and also component manufacturing for first protoype. More detail I will disclose in next post.

Exact numbers of Indonesian engineers are 116 who got home from Korean Aerospace in May 2020.


----------



## Indos

This is the work being done by Indonesian Aerospace from their home office in Bandung after Indonesian engineers coming back from Korea in May 2020. This is the activity after May 2020.

*Wing Access Cover Design & Analysist 

Tandem seat forward Fuselage Structural Test Article

Air Frame Manufacturing for First Prototype*


*Indonesian Aerospace (PT Dirgantara Indonesia) Yearly report for the year 2020 (page 82)*​


----------



## Indos

TRM for KF-X AESA Radar


TRM for KF-X AESA Radar Specification Core Technology



www.broadern.co.kr


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

*South Korea testing several new missiles amid tensions with Pyongyang*
*15 SEPTEMBER 2021

by Mark Cazalet & Alessandra Giovanzanti & Gabriel Dominguez & Dae Young Kim*



South Korea's Ministry of National Defense (MND) announced on 15 September that its Agency for Defense Development (ADD) has been developing and testing a range of new missiles, including a ground-launched supersonic cruise missile, a ground-launched ballistic missile, a long-range air-to-surface missile, and a submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM).

*The MND said in a statement that the new long-range air-launched missile recently underwent an aircraft separation test, with ADD footage of the test showing the weapon being launched from a Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF) F-4E Phantom II aircraft. The missile has been slated for use by Korea Aerospace Industries' (KAI's) KF-21 Boramae low-observable fighter aircraft, which is being developed for the RoKAF*. According to the MND, the new indigenous missile is currently in the research and development stage and the recent flight test verified its ability to successfully strike a target after being launched from the aircraft.






South Korea testing several new missiles amid tensions with Pyongyang


South Korea's Ministry of National Defense (MND) announced on 15 September that its Agency for Defense Development (ADD) has been developing and testing a range of new...



www.janes.com





The video is in above post


----------



## Indos

Look like some Indonesia Aerospace engineers who were in Indonesia during KF 21/IFX roll out are invited with Korean TV during the roll out event to represent 116 Indonesian design engineers who participated in the development of KF 21 until the design phase is completed around end of 2019.










Joko Widodo during KF 21/IFX roll out event


----------



## Indos

The wingman drone video is official and published in Korean news. Korean Member in PDF has said about the capability of KF 21 to use wingman drone, and that wingman drone has been tested by Korean Air.

"Actually, the flying wing UAV and UCAV development has been going on since quite a few years now and they have already flown the prototype of the aircraft." ( @dr.knowhow )





(photo courtesy of m.blog.naver.com/rgm84d, official blog of Military Review, a Korean defense magazine)


----------



## Indos

*Korean Air wins contract to develop low-visibility technologies for UAVs*
*01 OCTOBER 2021

by Alessandra Giovanzanti*





A stealthy, tailless UAV demonstrator developed by KAL that made its first test flight in the mid-2010s. On 30 September Korean Air announced that it has been awarded a contract to continue developing technologies for low-visibility UAVs. (Korean Air)

Korean Air (KAL) announced on 30 September that it has been selected to support the local development of low-visibility unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

The contract, awarded on 16 September by the Korea Research Institute for Defense Technology Planning and Advancement (KRIT) as part of the “low-visibility UAV technology research” project, involves the development of radar-absorbent structures and surface current control technology that will then be tested and applied to the next generation of UAVs.

Work under this contract is scheduled to be completed by 2025. No contract value had been disclosed by KAL at the time of publication.

KAL noted in its statement that from 2010 to August 2021 it had already developed and tested a stealthy, tailless UAV prototype under a project led by South Korea's Agency for Defense Development (ADD). _Janes_






Korean Air wins contract to develop low-visibility technologies for UAVs


Korean Air (KAL) announced on 30 September that it has been selected to support the local development of low-visibility unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).



www.janes.com


----------



## Indos

Translation from Google translate:

February 6, 2014 (Angkasa/Space Magazine)

*KFX / IFX program continued , Government Asked to Immediately Selecting Design*







Korea was once considered Indonesia engineer do not understand about the design of a jet fighter. But the notion was quickly turned , when the Indonesian team describes the design and the various inputs. The Indonesian side also the one who finally managed to convince that the aircraft take-off weight of 50,000 pounds must .

Confirmation of the Parliament of South Korea on the resumption of the program KFX / IFX team warmly welcomed designers from Indonesia. They include asking both governments immediately call the engineers involved in preparing work that has been long overdue. They also want the governments of both countries to make sure one of the two designs that have been produced in the Technology Development phase for cultivation in the next phase .

"Program KFX / IFX is a multi - program years , costly, and involve various sectors and foreign partners. For that there must be a definite declaration on it goes. For Indonesia it is important to determine the financing schemes and their human resources planning, "*said Dr Rais Zain, M. Eng ,* *KFX / IFX Configuration Design Leader *for Angkasa , in late January.

"In the near future Indonesia will also work on the N219 and R - 80. We do not have enough engineers to work three programs, especially KFX / IFX will take place until the 2020s. The government is expected to call home engineers who are now working abroad to come help the regeneration process. Outside there are approximately 200 people . If half of it can be returned to the country, it is enough to help, " added Rais who is also a lecturer at the Faculty of Aerospace Engineering ITB, Bandung.

As reported by the national media, the confirmation of the continuation of the program of making front - liner Korean - Indonesian fighter jets received by the Ministry of Defense on January 3, 2014. Notice is further announced Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro told reporters, Wednesday, January 8, 2014, on the sidelines of Rapim Kemenhan in Jakarta. Explanations related to exposure delivered weapon system procurement plans in the Strategic Plan II, 2015-2019.

The Indonesian government hopes the project of making the 4.5 generation fighter jet could be done because it would be a referral program to remove the dependence of the transfer of technology from other countries. Besides KFX / IFX, Indonesia is also pursuing a program of making submarines , warships, propellants , rockets, and tank size medium. For submarines, Indonesia is also cooperating with the same country.

Superior to the Su - 35 program KFX / IFX was stopped temporarily by Korea's new leader Park Geun - Hye end of 2012 after reviewing the state financially in the country. *This prestigious project was worked on since the beginning of 2011, shortly after President Lee Myung - bak and President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono confirmed the bilateral cooperation in the defense field in Jakarta.* From the Technology Development Phase that has been completed, a team of scientists has completed a number of conical design that later became two.

The two designs is a model of the stealth fighter jet -winning twin-engine air superiority with horizontally - tails in the back, and the other one is with canards on the front. "Each has consequences different financing and partners. Thus , it must first be decided which one is selected. It is important that when followed, all parties are ready to do it , "said Rais Zain , whose day-to- day lecturer at the Faculty of Engineering, Aerospace Engineering,ITB, Bandung.

As stated Wamenhan Sjafrie, Korean parliament has prepared 20 million U.S. dollars (temporary , Indonesia : $ 5 million) to continue this program in 2015. At that time , the team will go to the Engineering Manufacturing Development Phase. In addition must have a high thrust engine with a power to be able to fight in the air, the aircraft must also have weapons stored in the internal weapons bay , the data - link capable of randomizing communications, advanced radar target voters, and anti - jamming device.

The prototype is expected to finish by the end of the Strategic Plan II . Even if there are things that need to be criticized , it is a matter of operation requirements are much more determined the Korean Air Force . This was inevitable because the Korean bear 80 percent of the funding, and the country actually have a real enemy. This program is targeted to spawn a jet fighter with performance equivalent or superior to the opponent fighter jets which are the Sukhoi Su - 35.

Prerequisites requirement dismissed the proposed counter designs by KAI ( Korean Aerospace Industrie) recently, the design is intended to cut development costs. In configuration ( see Space, December 2013 ), looks KFX type E is only one engine powered with weapons outside the radar sweep prone opponent.

*Angkasa examine admiration of ADD ( Agency for Defense Development, Defence Research and Development Agency of Korea ) submitted to the Indonesian engineer team. Initially, the team assumes Korea really had no idea about the design of Indonesian fighter jets.

However, the assumption was turned when Indonesian engineers began to describe the design and the various inputs to the design of Korea. The Indonesian side also who ultimately ensure that the aircraft must have a takeoff weight of 50,000 pounds.(A.Darmawan/Angkasa magazine).

Source*






Program KFX/IFX Dilanjutkan, Pemerintah Diminta Segera Memilih Desain


Angkasa Online - Majalah Aviasi dan Militer



web.archive.org





C 103 design made by ADD Korea and Indonesian team (Indonesian Aerospace + Institute Technology Bandung (ITB). We can see the year 2012 on the picture posted by Naver (Korean Respected Defense Blog). KAI and Lockheed Martin join the program since 2015.






Indonesian wind tunnel






Final design, C 109, is a refinement of C 103 basic design


----------



## Indos

KAI, the Air Force and the South Korean National Institute of Science and Technology plan to develop sixth-generation technologies to address threats beyond 2035, many of which will be incorporated into the KF-21 Boramae.

While the KF-21 Boramae is a very new 4.5 Gen fighter, which had its rollout this year, it was designed from the ground up with the ability to evolve to achieve the capabilities of 5th Gen dot aircraft such as the F-35 and the F-22.









The KF-21 Boramae will evolve until possess characteristics of sixth generation fighters


KAI, the Air Force and the South Korean National Institute of Science and Technology plan to develop sixth-generation technologies to address threats beyond 203




www.aviacionline.com


----------



## SgtGungHo

Indos said:


> KAI, the Air Force and the South Korean National Institute of Science and Technology plan to develop sixth-generation technologies to address threats beyond 2035, many of which will be incorporated into the KF-21 Boramae.
> 
> While the KF-21 Boramae is a very new 4.5 Gen fighter, which had its rollout this year, it was designed from the ground up with the ability to evolve to achieve the capabilities of 5th Gen dot aircraft such as the F-35 and the F-22.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The KF-21 Boramae will evolve until possess characteristics of sixth generation fighters
> 
> 
> KAI, the Air Force and the South Korean National Institute of Science and Technology plan to develop sixth-generation technologies to address threats beyond 203
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aviacionline.com



No country has successfully upgraded a 4.5 gen fighter jet to a 6 gen fighter jet, let alone a 5 gen fighter jet. Just more pipe dream from Korean officials. The country doesn't even have an allocated budget to upgrade KF-21 to a 5th gen fighter, which would require drastic design changes, money and years, if not decades, of testing to achieve a LO status.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

*New video of the KF-21 Boramae, the future fighter developed in South Korea*




PorGASTÓN DUBOIS
-
07/10/2021


The KF-21 Boramae is the new fighter aircraft jointly developed by South Korea and Indonesia, whose rollout took place on April 9 this year.

Its first flight is scheduled for 2022, but while we wait, the manufacturing company (KAI) released a promotional video in which, through computerized images, shows what the aircraft will look like and what mission profiles it will have.

It should be remembered that, although it may not look like it, the KF-21 Boramae is an aircraft that in its present incarnation belongs to the 4.5 generation of fighters, similar to a Super Hornet or Rafale. It is a twin-engine with an expected top speed of 2,200 km/h, a range of 2,900 km and a combat load of up to 7.7 tons. 

But it is a design intended from the outset to evolve. It will be produced in successive blocks, which will incorporate new capabilities, with more advanced materials and construction techniques, which will bring this aircraft to the same level as 5th generation aircraft such as the F-35 (considered the de facto standard in this category). 






However, KAI recently announced that the KF-21 Boramae will evolve beyond the current 5 Gen fighters to incorporate features of the 6th generation fighters currently under development. 






In the video, you can see one of these features being developed in different programs around the world, which KAI also plans to equip the Boramae with. It is the ability to work in a man-machine partnership with unmanned combat aircraft, or drones. 







The images show the KF-21 leading a formation of 3 unmanned aerial combat systems, whose stealth design is reminiscent of Russian company Mikoyan’s Skat project.

The drones will be commanded by the KF-21 pilot, who will designate targets and other aspects relevant to the mission, acting as an important force multiplier. These operations will demand the use of powerful Artificial Intelligence (AI), both in the unmanned systems and in the KF-21, a disruptive technology that the 6th generation fighters have incorporated since their conception. 









New video of the KF-21 Boramae, the future fighter developed in South Korea


The KF-21 Boramae is the new fighter aircraft jointly developed by South Korea and Indonesia, whose rollout took place on April 9 this year. Its first flight




www.aviacionline.com


----------



## Indos

Respected Korean media Yonhap reporting on the KF 21 roll out event in April. Yonhap is funded by South Korean government


----------



## Indos

ADEX 2021 KOREA


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

KF 21/IFX is planned to have capability to control several drone planes under its command











ADEX 2021: KAI reveals FA-50 ‘loyal wingman' concept for KF-21


Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) has revealed its concept for an unmanned version of the company's FA-50 Fighting Eagle light combat aircraft that could serve as a...



www.janes.com


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

ADEX 2021, KOREA

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Whizzack

A (good) brief summary of the dramas surrounding the making of the KFX jet and Indonesian partnership in the program...

------------------------------------------------------------
VALIUS VENCKUNAS

*Supersonic drama: the story of South Korea’s new fighter jet*

Share this news 

 

 

 






Fifth-generation fighter jets are the embodiment of the latest technological advancements in military technology. They are associated with concepts such as stealth, extreme flight performance, and advanced computer systems.
Another word sometimes associated with fifth-generation fighter jets is drama. Consider the US-made F-22 and F-35 which were accused of being too expensive. Meanwhile, the Russian Su-57 was often in the news, whether it was the countless delays and trouble with its engine to uncertainties about overseas orders. Even China’s FC-31 – despite its highly secretive development – has been known to encounter difficulties, spending years in limbo and re-emerging almost a decade after its first flight.
Recently, South Korea has been making headlines with its own fighter development program – the KF-X. The aircraft developed during the program has been christened the KF-21, and is currently awaiting its maiden flight. It is debatable whether the aircraft really is fifth-generation as it lacks some crucial new generation features, such as internal weapon bays and supercruise ability. However, there are some next-gen staples the KF-21 has in spades: stealthy design, advanced avionics, and a propensity to be much talked about. 
*The Indonesian entry*
Some of the stories were fairly commonplace: issues with funding, delays, and claims that the jet was too expensive. But the program marched on and, as of late 2021, the aircraft is nearing its first flight.
However, another well-publicized problem has dogged the program. 
Korean Aerospace Industries (KAI) was seeking foreign partners before the requirements for the KF-X were finalized. Countries with a history of buying South Korean aircraft were the main candidates and, of those, Turkey and Indonesia both expressed interest.
Turkey’s involvement did not materialize, so Indonesia was left as the sole partner for KAI. In 2010, an agreement was signed, under which Indonesia agreed to contribute up to 20% of development costs and receive 50 aircraft in return. As neither the costs of the development nor production deadlines were clear, the terms were subject to further discussion.
Between 2011 and 2014 the discussion could not take place because the program was stalling. KAI struggled to procure funding. Newly-elected South Korean president Park Geun-hye was against the project, and the program was postponed for 18 months during her tenure. 
It slowly restarted in 2015, and after the actual design of the aircraft was selected, the development team outlined the budget. It envisaged Indonesia contributing one-fifth of the jet’s 7.5 trillion won ($6.3 billion) development cost. PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) – Indonesia’s state-run aerospace manufacturer – would also closely collaborate with KAI, lending a part of its workforce to the project.
*Falling out*
For a while everything seemed to run smoothly. But then, cracks started to appear.
In November 2017, the Korean Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) announced that it had not received the promised monetary contribution from Indonesia – some 138.9 billion won ($124.5 million) was due for the development that year. Only a quarter of the sum was transferred.
In the wake of the announcement, South Korean MP and member of the National Assembly Defense Committee, Kim Jong-dae, said that with the Indonesian contribution gone, the entire project had a real chance of being cancelled. 
One of the reasons for that was obvious. Procuring the budget for the aircraft took five years and the program was constantly criticized as being too expensive. Increasing the South Korean contribution by 20% would have looked unattractive. But an even bigger problem was brewing backstage.
In 2016, a sprawling, multi-layered corruption scandal centered around the president Park Geun-hye was reported in South Korea. It involved espionage, conspiracies, and secret religious cults. Park was forced from office in mid-2017 and, and as she was a stark opponent of the KF-X project, it could have been a good omen for the new airplane.
It was not. Unrelated to the president's impeachment, a host of other corruption scandals reverberated throughout the country, and Korean Aerospace Industries found itself in the middle of one. Autumn of 2017 saw the top management of KAI faced with a wave of prosecutions, arrests and even suicides. This did nothing to bolster Indonesia’s commitment to the aviation project. Was this the end?
As it turned out, Indonesia had been having its own doubts about the jet.
In September 2015, Indonesian Minister of Defense, Ryamizard Ryacudu, said that the development of the aircraft was unnecessary and the country should postpone paying for it. Nevertheless, in October of that year, PT Dirgantara Indonesia and KAI signed a deal regarding the payments. But it was clear that the Indonesian government was very much on the fence.
The entire program – to which Indonesia contributed only a minor part – was hanging in the balance.
*Endless renegotiations*
By early 2018, the problem had still not been resolved, and reports emerged that Indonesia was seriously reconsidering its involvement. It recalled 80 PTDI workers who had been stationed in South Korea, and hinted at a need to “renegotiate” its involvement.
“Frankly, the Indonesian delegation was restricted from accessing many part of KF-X technologies and studies, particularly from the ones regarding the US,” one of those workers told Defence News in May 2018. This shed some light on yet another problem.
In 2016, South Korea, Indonesia and the United States had a series of trilateral meetings in regards to the transfer of some advanced technologies, reportedly related to the F-35 program. The negotiations did not go as well as expected as the US expressed doubts with Indonesia’s trustworthiness. Indonesia was not exactly committed to NATO and its allies and, as the KF-X program was running, it negotiated the purchase of some new Russian jets for its Air Force.
The problems seemed to pile on. A renegotiation was under way in which Indonesia tried to obtain better conditions, and South Korea tried to maintain the status quo. At the same time, South Korean officials continuously said that the development was on track.
Then, in October 2019, a mock-up of the KF-X was publicly displayed for the first time at the Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition. As the final look and characteristics of the jet were revealed, Indonesia was absent from the presentation. It had been more than two years since the renegotiation was “about to end”.
Throughout this whole period, Indonesia was still paying for the program, but not according to the schedule that had been agreed upon. In 2017 it paid one-fourth of the year's sum, and in 2019 it paid 272.2 billion won ($230 million) of 301 billion won ($255 million) – still not the required sum.
Pandemic-ridden 2020 was the third year of renegotiations, and it was full of unconfirmed reports that Indonesia was about to leave the program as well as KAI’s claims that everything was fine. While PTDI engineers returned to work at KAI, the COVID-19 situation stretched Indonesia’s budget thin.
*Light at the end of the tunnel*
In mid-2021, KAI made the biggest public presentation of the jet yet. The first prototype was rolled out, the name of the aircraft was revealed and, most importantly, all of that was done in compliance with the development timeline announced back in 2017. 
In contrast with the mock-up reveal at Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition in 2019, Indonesia was not forgotten. Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto was present at the roll-out. He praised the jet, the Indonesian-South Korean cooperation, and the work of KAI. 
Subianto’s statements about the new aircraft – which received the name KF-21 Borame in South Korea and the F-33 in Indonesia – were taken as confirmation that the two countries had found common ground. All seemed well.
However, there was no announcement about the end of renegotiations, its results, or the new conditions for Indonesia’s involvement. Even as the prototype was slowly being prepared for its maiden flight in 2022, Indonesia was continuing to pay for the development on its own terms. 
In October 2021, Kang Eun-ho, head of South Korea’s arms procurement agency DAPA, hinted that the roll-out was not the end of the KF-X story. 
“I am convinced that [talks over] the issue of the overdue payments will be concluded by November. We will finish it by then,” Eun-Ho said. 
Only time will tell.










Supersonic drama: the story of South Korea’s new fighter jet


South Korea’s new fighter jet, the KF-21, generated quite a bit of drama during its development. But what part did Indonesia play?




www.aerotime.aero


----------



## Indos

Whizzack said:


> A (good) brief summary of the dramas surrounding the making of the KFX jet and Indonesian partnership in the program...
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> VALIUS VENCKUNAS
> 
> *Supersonic drama: the story of South Korea’s new fighter jet*
> 
> Share this news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fifth-generation fighter jets are the embodiment of the latest technological advancements in military technology. They are associated with concepts such as stealth, extreme flight performance, and advanced computer systems.
> Another word sometimes associated with fifth-generation fighter jets is drama. Consider the US-made F-22 and F-35 which were accused of being too expensive. Meanwhile, the Russian Su-57 was often in the news, whether it was the countless delays and trouble with its engine to uncertainties about overseas orders. Even China’s FC-31 – despite its highly secretive development – has been known to encounter difficulties, spending years in limbo and re-emerging almost a decade after its first flight.
> Recently, South Korea has been making headlines with its own fighter development program – the KF-X. The aircraft developed during the program has been christened the KF-21, and is currently awaiting its maiden flight. It is debatable whether the aircraft really is fifth-generation as it lacks some crucial new generation features, such as internal weapon bays and supercruise ability. However, there are some next-gen staples the KF-21 has in spades: stealthy design, advanced avionics, and a propensity to be much talked about.
> *The Indonesian entry*
> Some of the stories were fairly commonplace: issues with funding, delays, and claims that the jet was too expensive. But the program marched on and, as of late 2021, the aircraft is nearing its first flight.
> However, another well-publicized problem has dogged the program.
> Korean Aerospace Industries (KAI) was seeking foreign partners before the requirements for the KF-X were finalized. Countries with a history of buying South Korean aircraft were the main candidates and, of those, Turkey and Indonesia both expressed interest.
> Turkey’s involvement did not materialize, so Indonesia was left as the sole partner for KAI. In 2010, an agreement was signed, under which Indonesia agreed to contribute up to 20% of development costs and receive 50 aircraft in return. As neither the costs of the development nor production deadlines were clear, the terms were subject to further discussion.
> Between 2011 and 2014 the discussion could not take place because the program was stalling. KAI struggled to procure funding. Newly-elected South Korean president Park Geun-hye was against the project, and the program was postponed for 18 months during her tenure.
> It slowly restarted in 2015, and after the actual design of the aircraft was selected, the development team outlined the budget. It envisaged Indonesia contributing one-fifth of the jet’s 7.5 trillion won ($6.3 billion) development cost. PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) – Indonesia’s state-run aerospace manufacturer – would also closely collaborate with KAI, lending a part of its workforce to the project.
> *Falling out*
> For a while everything seemed to run smoothly. But then, cracks started to appear.
> In November 2017, the Korean Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) announced that it had not received the promised monetary contribution from Indonesia – some 138.9 billion won ($124.5 million) was due for the development that year. Only a quarter of the sum was transferred.
> In the wake of the announcement, South Korean MP and member of the National Assembly Defense Committee, Kim Jong-dae, said that with the Indonesian contribution gone, the entire project had a real chance of being cancelled.
> One of the reasons for that was obvious. Procuring the budget for the aircraft took five years and the program was constantly criticized as being too expensive. Increasing the South Korean contribution by 20% would have looked unattractive. But an even bigger problem was brewing backstage.
> In 2016, a sprawling, multi-layered corruption scandal centered around the president Park Geun-hye was reported in South Korea. It involved espionage, conspiracies, and secret religious cults. Park was forced from office in mid-2017 and, and as she was a stark opponent of the KF-X project, it could have been a good omen for the new airplane.
> It was not. Unrelated to the president's impeachment, a host of other corruption scandals reverberated throughout the country, and Korean Aerospace Industries found itself in the middle of one. Autumn of 2017 saw the top management of KAI faced with a wave of prosecutions, arrests and even suicides. This did nothing to bolster Indonesia’s commitment to the aviation project. Was this the end?
> As it turned out, Indonesia had been having its own doubts about the jet.
> In September 2015, Indonesian Minister of Defense, Ryamizard Ryacudu, said that the development of the aircraft was unnecessary and the country should postpone paying for it. Nevertheless, in October of that year, PT Dirgantara Indonesia and KAI signed a deal regarding the payments. But it was clear that the Indonesian government was very much on the fence.
> The entire program – to which Indonesia contributed only a minor part – was hanging in the balance.
> *Endless renegotiations*
> By early 2018, the problem had still not been resolved, and reports emerged that Indonesia was seriously reconsidering its involvement. It recalled 80 PTDI workers who had been stationed in South Korea, and hinted at a need to “renegotiate” its involvement.
> “Frankly, the Indonesian delegation was restricted from accessing many part of KF-X technologies and studies, particularly from the ones regarding the US,” one of those workers told Defence News in May 2018. This shed some light on yet another problem.
> In 2016, South Korea, Indonesia and the United States had a series of trilateral meetings in regards to the transfer of some advanced technologies, reportedly related to the F-35 program. The negotiations did not go as well as expected as the US expressed doubts with Indonesia’s trustworthiness. Indonesia was not exactly committed to NATO and its allies and, as the KF-X program was running, it negotiated the purchase of some new Russian jets for its Air Force.
> The problems seemed to pile on. A renegotiation was under way in which Indonesia tried to obtain better conditions, and South Korea tried to maintain the status quo. At the same time, South Korean officials continuously said that the development was on track.
> Then, in October 2019, a mock-up of the KF-X was publicly displayed for the first time at the Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition. As the final look and characteristics of the jet were revealed, Indonesia was absent from the presentation. It had been more than two years since the renegotiation was “about to end”.
> Throughout this whole period, Indonesia was still paying for the program, but not according to the schedule that had been agreed upon. In 2017 it paid one-fourth of the year's sum, and in 2019 it paid 272.2 billion won ($230 million) of 301 billion won ($255 million) – still not the required sum.
> Pandemic-ridden 2020 was the third year of renegotiations, and it was full of unconfirmed reports that Indonesia was about to leave the program as well as KAI’s claims that everything was fine. While PTDI engineers returned to work at KAI, the COVID-19 situation stretched Indonesia’s budget thin.
> *Light at the end of the tunnel*
> In mid-2021, KAI made the biggest public presentation of the jet yet. The first prototype was rolled out, the name of the aircraft was revealed and, most importantly, all of that was done in compliance with the development timeline announced back in 2017.
> In contrast with the mock-up reveal at Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition in 2019, Indonesia was not forgotten. Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto was present at the roll-out. He praised the jet, the Indonesian-South Korean cooperation, and the work of KAI.
> Subianto’s statements about the new aircraft – which received the name KF-21 Borame in South Korea and the F-33 in Indonesia – were taken as confirmation that the two countries had found common ground. All seemed well.
> However, there was no announcement about the end of renegotiations, its results, or the new conditions for Indonesia’s involvement. Even as the prototype was slowly being prepared for its maiden flight in 2022, Indonesia was continuing to pay for the development on its own terms.
> In October 2021, Kang Eun-ho, head of South Korea’s arms procurement agency DAPA, hinted that the roll-out was not the end of the KF-X story.
> “I am convinced that [talks over] the issue of the overdue payments will be concluded by November. We will finish it by then,” Eun-Ho said.
> Only time will tell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supersonic drama: the story of South Korea’s new fighter jet
> 
> 
> South Korea’s new fighter jet, the KF-21, generated quite a bit of drama during its development. But what part did Indonesia play?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aerotime.aero



As usual Western journalist made many false writing and dont understand the program and as usual Western journalist always like to play down Indonesia participation. Even until Today I see all western journalist said Indonesia only do licensing in CN 235 program, only defense journalist from the region (Malaysia) who understand the matter and try to correct them, like Malaysian journalist in Jane Defense, but other Western journalist in Jane Defense never wants to correct the mistake, they just need to read Airbus and Indonesia Aerospace website to see the truth









Defence History


Defence History




www.airbus.com










PT. Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero)







www.indonesian-aerospace.com





-------------------------------------------------------------

*Now I want to debunk many of this Western journalist mistake in his writing about KF21/IFX program

1. Indonesia has participated since 2011 and it is basically the start of the program. We also can see the LOI was in March 2009. *

*Prove:*

A.






B.
Korea was once considered Indonesia engineer do not understand about the design of a jet fighter. But the notion was quickly turned , when the Indonesian team describes the design and the various inputs. The Indonesian side also the one who finally managed to convince that the aircraft take-off weight of 50,000 pounds must .

Confirmation of the Parliament of South Korea on the resumption of the program KFX / IFX team warmly welcomed designers from Indonesia. They include asking both governments immediately call the engineers involved in preparing work that has been long overdue. They also want the governments of both countries to make sure one of the two designs that have been produced in the Technology Development phase for cultivation in the next phase .

"Program KFX / IFX is a multi - program years , costly, and involve various sectors and foreign partners. For that there must be a definite declaration on it goes. For Indonesia it is important to determine the financing schemes and their human resources planning, "*said Dr Rais Zain, M. Eng ,* *KFX / IFX Configuration Design Leader *for Angkasa , in late January.

Superior to the Su - 35 Program, KFX / IFX was stopped temporarily by Korea's new leader Park Geun - Hye end of 2012 after reviewing the state financially in the country. *This prestigious project was worked on since the beginning of 2011, shortly after President Lee Myung - bak and President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono confirmed the bilateral cooperation in the defense field in Jakarta.* From the Technology Development Phase that has been completed, a team of scientists has completed a number of conical design that later became two.







Program KFX/IFX Dilanjutkan, Pemerintah Diminta Segera Memilih Desain


Angkasa Online - Majalah Aviasi dan Militer



web.archive.org





*2. Indonesia and Turkey was not a large buyer of Korean defense equipment at that time, so saying Korean pick Turkey and Indonesia as partner because of both are Korean defense equipment buyers are not true*. Korean give proposal to Indonesia to joint the program around 2009 while at that time we havent bought and decided to buy FA 50 and Chang Bogo Submarine. Both have capable aerospace industry and this is the main reason of why South Korea choose Turkey and Indonesia, they can pick UAE/Qatar/or Saudi if they just want to broaden the market.

*Prove:*









Indonesia orders 16 T-50 trainers


Indonesia has placed a $400 million order for 16 Korea Aerospace Industries T-50 Golden Eagle advanced jet trainers, the type's first export sale. The...




www.flightglobal.com













Jang Bogo-class submarine - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





*3. The program runs very well since the start in 2011 and ended in 2012 Desember where 2 design have been developed. This is technology development phase. Indonesia sent 52 engineers at that time. This is to debunk their story saying since 2011 the program was not running and they even dont mention Indonesian engineers who were sent to Korea at that time.

Prove:*

A. 2012 picture posted by respected Korean Defense Blog, Naver






B. *The number of Indonesian experts involved in the second phase, known as the Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) phase, was far more than the first phase (Technical Development Phase), which only amounted to 52 at that time. The first phase (Technical Development Phase) itself lasted 18 months from 2011 to 2012. Meanwhile, the second phase (EMD) will last for 10 years, involving 200-300 Indonesian experts.*






Badan Pendidikan dan Pelatihan Kemhan RI







www.kemhan.go.id





*4. Saying Indonesia only contribute minor thing is not correct, nothing can be said minor when Indonesia send 116 design engineers until the design is completed for single seat configuration, and continue sending design work for tandem configuration and some fuselage component for prototype 1,2, and 6 while staying in Bandung, Indonesia.

Prove:*

A. CDR was in September 2019, long before 116 Indonesian design engineers came back in March 2020

*2021 news*

"But Indonesia's 114-strong engineering team returned home in March last year after the country's failure to make payments gave rise to speculation that it could quit the program. Indonesia stopped making payments after investing 227.2 billion won, with around 700 billion won overdue."









Indonesian engineers to return to S. Korea for KF-21 joint development | Yonhap News Agency


SEOUL, Aug. 11 (Yonhap) -- Indonesian engineers who left South Korea last year amid specul...




en.yna.co.kr





*CDR was in September 2019 ( Completion of detail design)*






B. *October 2019 news*

As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.









Indonesia delays payment for S. Korea's fighter development project | Yonhap News Agency


SEOUL, Oct. 7 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia is in arrears on its payment obligations for a joint p...




en.yna.co.kr





C. The opposition party said the South Korean government is only engaged in passive negotiation due to concern over possible obstacles or possible delay in the development of the fighter jet resulting *from non-payment of contributions*. In line with principle and common sense, one side should not be forced into unilateral concessions. We have to bring about a win-win situation,” Rep. Kang said.









Indonesia fails to execute KF-21 cost-sharing agreement


Indonesia had agreed to pay 20 percent of the cost for the development of South Korea’s KF-21 Boram…



www.donga.com





*5. Indonesia is not in doubt on the program at all, Indonesia get economic difficulty in 2018 due to fragile Rupiah as trade deficit reach its historic peak, this is why renegotiation is started.

Prove*

A. https://nasional.kompas.com/read/20...-pengembangan-jet-tempur-kfxifx-dengan-korsel

B. Ryamizard Ryakudu in 2015 talked very positive about the program, I will find the Youtube later, but at the mean time it is what is said by Indonesia Aerospace CEO in 2016 and talk about Indonesia position. As the program owner is Defense Ministry and he is basically working under SOE ministry, so what he said is in accordance with Indonesia Government position regarding the program in that 2016






*6. Why does he mentioned KAI during 2011 development phase ? KAI hasnt joined the program until 2015 and KAI design proposal was also rejected during the delay of program (2013-2014) and Korea government pick the C 103 design as basis of KF 21/IFX design to be developed further into C 109 design. ADD Korea and Indonesian team who was working on the C 103 design during technology development phase (2011-Desember 2012)

7. Even he said Indonesia recalled 80 engineers from working in South Korea in 2018 which is not true, as we can see on the above facts coming from credible sources I put in, 114 Indonesian design engineers left South Korea starting in May 2020 where detail design has been completed in late 2019. And even they are still working on tandem prototype design and some components for prototype 1,2, and 6 while in Indonesia ( I have put Indonesia Aerospace document on previous page saying like that)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

This shows he has little knowledge about the program and just follow the program while probably using some comments from defense enthusiast in Defense Forum rather than credible sources from credible Korean media like Yonhap, Korean and Indonesian Gov website, and credible Indonesian media like Angkasa (Aerospace specialist) and Kompas whose sources are DAPA Korea, Korean parliament who has link to ADD/DAPA Korea and Indonesian KF 21/IFX senior engineer.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Whizzack

Well regardless of the amount of technical contributions we have made or going to make for this project, at the end of the day, it's our financial contributions that will determine our continued participation in this project... so the below news should make you happy @Indos 😁 

*South Korea, Indonesia move closer to KF-21 agreement, says DAPA*

26 OCTOBER 2021

by Jon Grevatt

DAPA has said South Korea and Indonesia are “narrowing the gap” on an agreement on Jakarta's payments on the programme to develop the KF-21 fighter aircraft, seen here at the launch of the platform's first prototype. (DAPA)

South Korea and Indonesia are edging closer to an agreement about Jakarta's financial commitment to the programme to develop the KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter aircraft, the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) in Seoul told Janes.

A DAPA spokesperson said that the two countries remain in talks over Indonesia's payments on the project but that the agency is confident that an agreement can be reached soon. The spokesperson also indicated that once the agreement is in place, Indonesia's position in the KF-21 programme could expand.

“The Republic of Korea and Indonesia are narrowing the gap between each other's position with regards to repayments through a number of negotiations,” said the DAPA spokesperson. “DAPA is very positive that the payment issue will be resolved.”







South Korea, Indonesia move closer to KF-21 agreement, says DAPA


South Korea and Indonesia are edging closer to an agreement about Jakarta's financial commitment to the programme to develop the KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter...



www.janes.com

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## Indos

Whizzack said:


> Well regardless of the amount of technical contributions we have made or going to make for this project, at the end of the day, it's our financial contributions that will determine our continued participation in this project... so the below news should make you happy @Indos 😁
> 
> *South Korea, Indonesia move closer to KF-21 agreement, says DAPA*
> 
> 26 OCTOBER 2021
> 
> by Jon Grevatt
> 
> DAPA has said South Korea and Indonesia are “narrowing the gap” on an agreement on Jakarta's payments on the programme to develop the KF-21 fighter aircraft, seen here at the launch of the platform's first prototype. (DAPA)
> 
> South Korea and Indonesia are edging closer to an agreement about Jakarta's financial commitment to the programme to develop the KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter aircraft, the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) in Seoul told Janes.
> 
> A DAPA spokesperson said that the two countries remain in talks over Indonesia's payments on the project but that the agency is confident that an agreement can be reached soon. The spokesperson also indicated that once the agreement is in place, Indonesia's position in the KF-21 programme could expand.
> 
> “The Republic of Korea and Indonesia are narrowing the gap between each other's position with regards to repayments through a number of negotiations,” said the DAPA spokesperson. “DAPA is very positive that the payment issue will be resolved.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> South Korea, Indonesia move closer to KF-21 agreement, says DAPA
> 
> 
> South Korea and Indonesia are edging closer to an agreement about Jakarta's financial commitment to the programme to develop the KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter...
> 
> 
> 
> www.janes.com



Ya, I hope we can complete the renegotiation soon and Indonesia should pay all the debt and start paying our financial commitment inshaAllah.

Air Force Commander whit his recent publication book revealed 3 most important aspects in term of fighter acquisition. These three aspects IMO supports the use of KF21/IFX in Indonesia Air Force. First is 4.5-5 generation fighters (which is more Stealthy than current Air Force assets) that become our Air Force target to acquire, second is the importance of inter operability between Indonesian fighters and also with other defense assets in sea and land. Finally he said the need to have aggressive Air Force posture in term of fighter assets, he said Indonesia should buy 35 fighters within 5 years period and keep doing this until 2045 where in total we will have around 160 new fighters.


*Why KF 21 can be the right choice for Indonesian Airforce ?*

1. KF 21 is 4.5 generation fighter with the ability to be developed into 5 generation and even the plan to make it having 6 generation technology has been revealed.

2. In term of inter-operability, we can use LEN Link to be used in the plane as we have much freedom to install any equipment and component into this fighter compared to fighters like F 15 and Rafale.

Basically PT LEN Industry only shows KF21/IFX which will use their system, this is also another prove that reveal the difficulty to use the link in other fighter as OEM and countries who sell their fighter often restrict other component/equipment to be used in their fighters.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420253554405642241
3. The need to procure 35 fighters within 5 years period is difficult to be realized in Indonesia which will likely focus to economic development until the next 20 years, and it can only be smoothly executed if we still can reap both economic and defense industry benefit while pursuing the target. Less pressure from government point of view where economic will likely become their main focus as has been seen by Indonesia administration history since 1967 ( The beginning of New Order/Soeharto).

With KF 21/IFX will be produced in the country if the program is success and Indonesia will still be in the program, this make Air Force acquisition plan will get less resistance from economic team. Furthermore as current fighter (4.5-5 generation fighter) maintenance absorbs 30 % of total cost of the fighter total cost (acquisition and life cost), so this will be another reason of why KF21/IFX who will be produced by Indonesia Aerospace inshaAllah will reduce maintenance cost while giving more benefit on local industry and faster delivery and maintenance time to our Air Force.

Not to mention the price of KF21/IFX is set at 60-70 million USD per plane which is half of F 16 block 72/F 15 EX and almost 1/3 of Rafale in term of acquisition cost only ( minus maintenance cost ).

While the program also will pave the way for Indonesian Aerospace to develop Stealth Wing Man UCAV that IMO will give huge market within our own domestic demand and possibly export them abroad.






4. Easier to do upgrade and modification of the fighter by our local industries that in the end will increase our deterrence level

------------------------------------------------

Air Force strategic plan. More detail information can be seen on the book that will be published soon as I, personally, have seen the brief presentation of the plan ( where one of them include fighter acquisition plan that I have revealed in this post ).









Deretan Alutsista dan Teknologi Canggih yang Didambakan TNI AU Halaman all - Kompas.com


TNI AU mendambakan sejumlah alutsista canggih untuk mempekuat peran dan posisi TNI AU agar dapat menjadi kekuatan yang disegani di kawasan. Halaman all




nasional.kompas.com

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## Indos

InshaAllah renegotiation is completed and Indonesia starts paying its financial contribution.

-----------------------------------------------------------

*S. Korea, Indonesia to hold last-stage talks over overdue payments for fighter jet project*
*All News* 08:22 November 05, 2021

By Song Sang-ho

SEOUL, Nov. 5 (Yonhap) -- South Korea and Indonesia will hold what could be the final round of negotiations in the Southeast Asian country next week to address the latter's overdue payments for a joint fighter development project, informed sources said Friday.

Officials from Korea Aerospace Industries Ltd. (KAI), South Korea's sole aircraft maker, will meet with negotiators from Indonesia's defense ministry, the sources said, as Seoul seeks to squelch lingering concerns over Indonesia's commitment to the 8.8 trillion-won (US$7.4 billion) project, called KF-X.

Kang Eun-ho, head of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), is also expected to visit Indonesia from Tuesday to Thursday to join the Korean negotiation team -- in an apparent show of Seoul's resolve to settle the protracted issue.

Indonesia had agreed to shoulder 20 percent of the new fighter's development cost. But it later stopped making payments, with the amount of the overdue payments currently standing at 704.1 billion won (US$593 million).

During a parliamentary audit last month, DAPA chief Kang expressed confidence that the negotiations with Indonesia will be concluded by November.

Concerns about Indonesia's possible pullout from the project first surfaced when the country brought its technicians involved in the fighter development program in South Korea back to their home country in March last year, citing the spread of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Such concerns eased when Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto agreed to resume talks with South Korea over the overdue payments during a visit to Seoul in April, which coincided with a ceremony unveiling a prototype of the country's first indigenous fighter jet named the KF-21 Boramae.

In August, a group of Indonesian technicians returned to Korea, raising expectations that the joint fighter development program will gain traction.














S. Korea, Indonesia to hold last-stage talks over overdue payments for fighter jet project | Yonhap News Agency


By Song Sang-ho SEOUL, Nov. 5 (Yonhap) -- South Korea and Indonesia will hold what could ...




en.yna.co.kr

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

*Korea-Indonesia KF-21 joint development renegotiation, ‘startup’ in Jakarta… anticipation of a settlement*
clean view
Normal


Enter 2021.11.10 10:55 Edit 2021.11.10 10:55

Indonesia demands a 5% reduction in the development contribution rate… The renegotiation of the conditions for joint development of the next-generation fighter (KF-21/IF-X) between Korea and Indonesia, which is 800 billion won overdue , will be held for two days in Jakarta on the 10th.

As the Indonesian government expressed its will for joint development by sending 30 technical staff to Korea in August, expectations are high that the negotiations will come to an end.







Kang Eun-ho, head of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration, told Yonhap News correspondent on the morning of the same day, "We will do our best to negotiate based on mutual trust and a will to cooperate between the two countries."

Director Kang arrived in Jakarta with six negotiators the night before.

Negotiations with Indonesia will take place from the afternoon of this day to the afternoon of the next day, and if necessary, negotiations may take place all night.

The Indonesian side wants to keep profits from transferring more technology than the original contract along with a 5% reduction in the share of the KF-21 joint development contribution.

The KF-21/IF-X project is a project in which Korea and Indonesia jointly share a project cost of 8.8 trillion won from 2015 to 2028 to research and develop a 4.5th generation fighter. After investing 100 billion won and transferring one prototype and technical data, it plans to locally produce 48 next-generation fighters.

Indonesia delayed the payment of the share from the second half of 2017, and when President Joko Widodo visited South Korea in September 2018, he asked President Moon Jae-in to renegotiate, including reducing the share of the Indonesian side by 5%.

Overdue contributions to date are KRW 800 billion.

The two countries have narrowed their differences of opinion through renegotiation in October 2018, with Indonesia keeping the share (20%) but paying some in kind.

However, Indonesia's defense minister was replaced by Prabowo Subianto in October 2019, returning to the starting point, and as the corona crisis erupted last year, about 110 Indonesian technicians returned to Korea, and the joint development was in danger of being stranded.






Commissioner Kang visited Jakarta on September 22-23, last year, when he was deputy director of the DAPA, and visited Jakarta to renegotiate the terms of the KF-21 joint development and also met with Minister Prabowo, but to no avail.

Then, this year, Minister Prabowo showed a change of friendly attitude through several meetings with Commissioner Kang, Ambassador Park Tae-seong, and Defense Adviser Jeong Yeon-su, and after attending the launch ceremony of the first prototype in Korea in April, restarted joint development.

Indonesia sent 30 technicians participating in the joint development to Korea at the end of August, and plans to send more technicians once the renegotiation is concluded this time.


However, even if an agreement is reached, it is expected that the Indonesian government will not be able to repay the arrears immediately because the Indonesian government is pouring most of its budget into response to the corona crisis, and it is expected that the payment will be made in installments at an appropriate time.









한-인니 KF-21 공동개발 재협상, 자카르타서 '시동'…타결 기대


한-인니 KF-21 공동개발 재협상, 자카르타서 '시동'…타결 기대, 국제




www.hankyung.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## lonelyman

Indos said:


> *Korea-Indonesia KF-21 joint development renegotiation, ‘startup’ in Jakarta… anticipation of a settlement*
> clean view
> Normal
> 
> 
> Enter 2021.11.10 10:55 Edit 2021.11.10 10:55
> 
> Indonesia demands a 5% reduction in the development contribution rate… The renegotiation of the conditions for joint development of the next-generation fighter (KF-21/IF-X) between Korea and Indonesia, which is 800 billion won overdue , will be held for two days in Jakarta on the 10th.
> 
> As the Indonesian government expressed its will for joint development by sending 30 technical staff to Korea in August, expectations are high that the negotiations will come to an end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kang Eun-ho, head of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration, told Yonhap News correspondent on the morning of the same day, "We will do our best to negotiate based on mutual trust and a will to cooperate between the two countries."
> 
> Director Kang arrived in Jakarta with six negotiators the night before.
> 
> Negotiations with Indonesia will take place from the afternoon of this day to the afternoon of the next day, and if necessary, negotiations may take place all night.
> 
> The Indonesian side wants to keep profits from transferring more technology than the original contract along with a 5% reduction in the share of the KF-21 joint development contribution.
> 
> The KF-21/IF-X project is a project in which Korea and Indonesia jointly share a project cost of 8.8 trillion won from 2015 to 2028 to research and develop a 4.5th generation fighter. After investing 100 billion won and transferring one prototype and technical data, it plans to locally produce 48 next-generation fighters.
> 
> Indonesia delayed the payment of the share from the second half of 2017, and when President Joko Widodo visited South Korea in September 2018, he asked President Moon Jae-in to renegotiate, including reducing the share of the Indonesian side by 5%.
> 
> Overdue contributions to date are KRW 800 billion.
> 
> The two countries have narrowed their differences of opinion through renegotiation in October 2018, with Indonesia keeping the share (20%) but paying some in kind.
> 
> However, Indonesia's defense minister was replaced by Prabowo Subianto in October 2019, returning to the starting point, and as the corona crisis erupted last year, about 110 Indonesian technicians returned to Korea, and the joint development was in danger of being stranded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Commissioner Kang visited Jakarta on September 22-23, last year, when he was deputy director of the DAPA, and visited Jakarta to renegotiate the terms of the KF-21 joint development and also met with Minister Prabowo, but to no avail.
> 
> Then, this year, Minister Prabowo showed a change of friendly attitude through several meetings with Commissioner Kang, Ambassador Park Tae-seong, and Defense Adviser Jeong Yeon-su, and after attending the launch ceremony of the first prototype in Korea in April, restarted joint development.
> 
> Indonesia sent 30 technicians participating in the joint development to Korea at the end of August, and plans to send more technicians once the renegotiation is concluded this time.
> 
> 
> However, even if an agreement is reached, it is expected that the Indonesian government will not be able to repay the arrears immediately because the Indonesian government is pouring most of its budget into response to the corona crisis, and it is expected that the payment will be made in installments at an appropriate time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 한-인니 KF-21 공동개발 재협상, 자카르타서 '시동'…타결 기대
> 
> 
> 한-인니 KF-21 공동개발 재협상, 자카르타서 '시동'…타결 기대, 국제
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hankyung.com



curious, why would Lockheed ge etc sell Korea key components like radar,avionics, engine to compete against itself (f35 f16), rather than kill it and force South Korea to buy


----------



## Indos

Indonesia finance minister, Sri Mulyani has too much stress on the infrastructure development while not putting enough budged on R&D. Jokowi as older generation leader also shows more tendency to infrastructure development and village funds.

This makes this program gets some problem for the financing part since for current Indonesia leaders, spending around 2 billion USD ( even though the payment will be disbursed gradually in the span of 10 years) for R&D of defense project is too much. Even N 219 program with only 70 million USD development cost gets difficult to get the finding. It makes the program which started in 2004 needs 10 years before Indonesia Aerospace can get enough funding to do detail design and produce several prototypes starting in 2015.

New leaders with ages ranging from 48-55 years old that is expected to get the power in 2024 election I believe has more ambitious mindset and understand the important of R&D for the nation progress. At least, economically they will likely have better economic capacity to fund similar project in the future and has more capacity to order KF21/IFX into more than 100 planes. It is because Indonesia economy is projected by IMF to reach 1.5 trillion USD nominal GDP in 2025, where KF 21/IFX program is expected to be completed in 2026.








lonelyman said:


> curious, why would Lockheed ge etc sell Korea key components like radar,avionics, engine to compete against itself (f35 f16), rather than kill it and force South Korea to buy



USA doesnt allow 4 key components to be put in KF 21/IFX which include avionics and radars. This is then force South Korea to develop by themselves where Israel is also helping in some degree on the development.

USA also doesnt allow AMRAAM and Sidewinder to be used by KF21/IFX, this is why KF21/IFX will use Meteor missile for BVR and IRIS-T for WVR.

Some transfer technology do happen from F 22 and F 35 program into KF21/IFX program, this is a deal made by LM after SK buy many F 35.

USA in some way has intention to have both South Korea and Japan powerful enough to make these countries can deal with China threat. It is part of USA interest to do that

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## lonelyman

Indos said:


> Indonesia finance minister, Sri Mulyani has too much stress on the infrastructure development while not putting enough budged on R&D. Jokowi as older generation leader also shows more tendency to infrastructure development and village funds.
> 
> This makes this program gets some problem for the financing part since for current Indonesia leaders, spending around 2 billion USD ( even though the payment will be disbursed gradually in the span of 10 years) for R&D of defense project is too much. Even N 219 program with only 70 million USD development cost gets difficult to get the finding. It makes the program which started in 2004 needs 10 years before Indonesia Aerospace can get enough funding to do detail design and produce several prototypes starting in 2015.
> 
> New leaders with ages ranging from 48-55 years old that is expected to get the power in 2024 election I believe has more ambitious mindset and understand the important of R&D for the nation progress. At least, economically they will likely have better economic capacity to fund similar project in the future and has more capacity to order KF21/IFX into more than 100 planes. It is because Indonesia economy is projected by IMF to reach 1.5 trillion USD nominal GDP in 2025, where KF 21/IFX program is expected to be completed in 2026.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA doesnt allow 4 key components to be put in KF 21/IFX which include avionics and radars. This is then force South Korea to develop by themselves where Israel is also helping in some degree on the development.
> 
> USA also doesnt allow AMRAAM and Sidewinder to be used by KF21/IFX, this is why KF21/IFX will use Meteor missile for BVR and IRIS-T for WVR.
> 
> Some transfer technology do happen from F 22 and F 35 program into KF21/IFX program, this is a deal made by LM after SK buy many F 35.
> 
> USA in some way has intention to have both South Korea and Japan powerful enough to make these countries can deal with China threat. It is part of USA interest to do that



make sense, but Lockheed is greedy and stupid to create a future competitor like the training plane, Korea has no options , if don’t buy f35, what other planes to buy?


----------



## Indos

lonelyman said:


> make sense



Not only that, it is part of business competition as well between USA and European. After the completion of first development phase (2011-2012 Desember) where 2 designs have been developed ( C-100 and C-200 with canard). The program then will select the technical partner of the program. European consortium is also interested beside Lockheed Martin from USA.

KF 21/IFX since the start is design to get whether European engine (EJ 200) or American engine (F414) which show similarity in diameter and length. The reason there is one design with canard is to prepare for cooperation with European nation that has FBW technology on fighter with canard like Typhoon.

So if LM doesnt show willingness to help the program, European consortium will have more upperhand. Even European consortium is willing to be part of the program and finance 20 % of the project. But somehow LM that is chosen to be partner and GE will provide the engine.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

lonelyman said:


> make sense, but Lockheed is greedy and stupid to create a future competitor like the training plane, Korea has no options , if don’t buy f35, what other planes to buy?



LM doesnt have training plane, they are competing with Boeing to provide jet trainer for US Air Force by using T50 Golden Eagle that will be produced in LM if they win the tender, despite Boeing is the one that gets the tender.

SK can wait KF21 if LM is not interested with KF21/IFX program as technical partner ( despite they dont provide any financing) and build cooperation with European nation. Even if EU is part of the program, KF21/IFX will likely become the future fighters of European nations (Britain/German/Italia/etc) with 20 % funding from them which means business wise it will be more profitable. So saying South Korea only has Indonesia as backing during that period is a big false.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## lonelyman

Indos said:


> LM doesnt have training plane, they are competing with Boeing to provide jet trainer for US Air Force by using T50 Golden Eagle that will be produced in LM if they win the tender, despite Boeing is the one that gets the tender.
> 
> SK can wait KF21 if LM is not interested with KF21/IFX program as technical partner ( despite they dont provide any financing) and build cooperation with European nation. Even if EU is part of the program, KF21/IFX will likely become the future fighters of European nations (Britain/German/Italia/etc) which means business wise it will be more viable
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> View attachment 791931



come on man, first of all europeans don’t have fifth generation plane to offer korea

Second of all, uk/Germany/France use kf21 as future plane? Instead buy f35? You seriously believe that? Please don’t fall to indians level

u are right on the trainer though


----------



## Indos

AlhamduliLLAH

---------------------------

*S. Korea, Indonesia finalize fighter jet costs amid default rumors*
















S. Korea, Indonesia finalize fighter jet costs amid default rumors


South Korea and Indonesia reached an agreement Wednesday on the payment Indonesia would have to make for their joint fighter jet project after concerns for months that Jakarta could default on the deal to produce a cheaper, less-stealthy alternative to the US-made F-35. The KF-21 program -- in...



www.koreaherald.com


----------



## Shotgunner51

Indos said:


> AlhamduliLLAH
> 
> ---------------------------
> 
> *S. Korea, Indonesia finalize fighter jet costs amid default rumors*
> 
> 
> View attachment 792399
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S. Korea, Indonesia finalize fighter jet costs amid default rumors
> 
> 
> South Korea and Indonesia reached an agreement Wednesday on the payment Indonesia would have to make for their joint fighter jet project after concerns for months that Jakarta could default on the deal to produce a cheaper, less-stealthy alternative to the US-made F-35. The KF-21 program -- in...
> 
> 
> 
> www.koreaherald.com


Good progress! When will you expect the first demonstrator be flown?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Shotgunner51 said:


> Good progress! When will you expect the first demonstrator be flown?



AlhamduliLLAH

Based on the plan around March or April 2022 inshaAllah

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Shotgunner51

Indos said:


> AlhamduliLLAH
> 
> Based on the plan around March or April 2022 inshaAllah


Wow that's coming soon! Really wanna see the first demonstrator start flying. I can't read any Korean so you're my only source on this matter, remember to tag me bro.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Shotgunner51 said:


> Wow that's coming soon! Really wanna see the first demonstrator start flying. I can't read any Korean so you're my only source on this matter, remember to tag me bro.



Dont worry, inshaAllah

KAI Korea by now has produced 5 prototypes already, several of them will be for ground test testing so it will likely accelerate the development phase. Indonesian Aerospace also makes some components for prototypes 1,2, and 6.

This is what has happened some months ago :






The flying prototype is behind, the one with grey/blue color

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## Indos

Jane is quick reporting it, even faster than Indonesian news that is quite late. The payment is likely be paid in 2022 since 2021 budget has been run quite long and will reach December soon. 30 % payment according to DAPA Korea will be paid by natural resources. Well Indonesia has coal, LNG, palm oil, gold, chopper which are now in high demand.

----------------------------------------------------


11 NOVEMBER 2021

*Indonesia reaffirms commitment to pay 20% of the KF-21 fighter's development costs*
by Alessandra Giovanzanti





Picture from DAPA Korea


On 9 April KAI unveiled the first of six KF-21 fighter prototypes. The platform is slated to make its maiden flight in 2022, with mass production of the aircraft expected to begin in 2026. (DAPA)

The Indonesian Ministry of Defence has reaffirmed its commitment to funding 20% of development costs for the KF-21/IF-X multirole fighter aircraft, with about 30% of its contribution set to be paid in kind, South Korea's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) announced on 11 November.

The announcement is part of an agreement that was reached between South Korean and Indonesian representatives during the sixth bilateral working-level meeting held in Jakarta.

“Negotiations were completed in a way that is mutually beneficial to both countries through sufficient bilateral consultations” and the agreement “is expected to contribute to the quick stabilisation of the joint development programme as well as to resolving unpaid contributions by Indonesia”, Director of DAPA Kang Eun-ho was quoted as saying.

DAPA did not provide information on how or when the overdue payments will be addressed, noting only that details on the 30% contribution have yet to be defined

Under the original agreement – signed in 2016 – Indonesia committed to pay for 20% of the total development costs of the KF-21/IF-X project – valued at KRW 8.8 trillion (USD7.5 billion) – through to 2028, with South Korea and Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) covering 60% and 20% respectively.

Specifically, it was agreed that KRW8.12 billion would be invested in system development between 2015 and 2026, while KRW680 billion would be added between 2026 and 2028 for additional weapon testing.






Indonesia reaffirms commitment to pay 20% of the KF-21 fighter's development costs


The Indonesian Ministry of Defence has reaffirmed its commitment to funding 20% of development costs for the KF-21/IF-X multirole fighter aircraft, with about 30% of its...



www.janes.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Shotgunner51

Indos said:


> Dont worry, inshaAllah
> 
> KAI Korea by now has produced 5 prototypes already, several of them will be for ground test testing so it will likely accelerate the development phase. Indonesian Aerospace also makes some components for prototypes 1,2, and 6.
> 
> This is what has happened some months ago :
> 
> View attachment 792416
> 
> 
> The flying prototype is behind, the one with grey/blue color
> 
> View attachment 792417


That's a twin-engine config, which engine has been selected? Or shortlisted?


----------



## siegecrossbow

Shotgunner51 said:


> That's a twin-engine config, which engine has been selected? Or shortlisted?



I think F-414.


----------



## Indos

Shotgunner51 said:


> That's a twin-engine config, which engine has been selected? Or shortlisted?



GE- F 414, similar like Superhornet

The prototype has already been roll out with engine inside


----------



## Shotgunner51

Indos said:


> F 414, similar like Superhornet


I see so it's gonna be a medium jet, cos I'm wondering how it fits into next gen ROKAF. In that case *KFX, not F-35A, is the successor to their F-16 fleet* (or even F-15K if they discontinue with heavy jets), is that correct to say? Perhaps that's why they procure so few F-35A? PS: ROKN is another story, if they need a STOVL/VTOL then F-35B is the only choice.









Korean military to buy 40 more fighter jets from U.S.


Korea will double the number of F-35 stealth fighter jets it will buy from the United States, including variants that will operate on the country’s first aircraft carrier, according to military sources.



koreajoongangdaily.joins.com





From a supply chain POV, how's the progress with medium-thrust engine in SK or Indonesia?


----------



## Indos

Shotgunner51 said:


> I see so it's gonna be a medium jet, cos I'm wondering how it fits into next gen ROKAF. In that case *KFX, not F-35A, is the successor to their F-16 fleet* (or even F-15SK if they discontinue with heavy jets), is that correct to say? Perhaps that's why they procure so few F-35A? PS: ROKN is another story, if they need a STOVL/VTOL then F-35B is the only choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Korean military to buy 40 more fighter jets from U.S.
> 
> 
> Korea will double the number of F-35 stealth fighter jets it will buy from the United States, including variants that will operate on the country’s first aircraft carrier, according to military sources.
> 
> 
> 
> koreajoongangdaily.joins.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From a supply chain POV, how's the progress with medium-thrust engine in SK or Indonesia?



Look like Korea will rely on KF 21 in the future, they even have plan to develop the plane until it has 6 generation capability. I have stated quite long in PDF that Korea will use F 35 as stop gap and also it is part to get LM become the partner of KF21 and bring technology from F 22 and F 35 into KF 21/IFX.

KAI has been mulling to develop Naval version KF 21.

Indonesia look like focus on EDF jet engine. Some thing that is needed to power our cruise missile development program that is currently running with Indonesia Aerospace as the leader of consortium. It involves several SOE companies, university, and at least one private owned company. 

Other research on conventional jet engine do take place with Indonesian Aerospace subsidiary company, PT NTP whose focus on industrial turbine and also PT Info Global which will focus on the electronic side. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Korean also focus on jet engine for missile and their UCAV. In term of KF 21 engine, Hanwa Korea will involve as well, in assembling and produce some components of F 414 engine.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos




----------



## Shotgunner51

Indos said:


> Look like Korea will rely on KF 21 in the future, they even have plan to develop the plane until it has 6 generation capability. I have stated quite long in PDF that Korea will use F 35 as stop gap and also it is part to get LM become the partner of KF21 and bring technology from F 22 and F 35 into KF 21/IFX.
> 
> KAI has been mulling to develop Naval version KF 21.
> 
> Indonesia look like focus on EDF jet engine. Some thing that is needed to power our cruise missile development program that is currently running with Indonesia Aerospace as the leader of consortium. It involves several SOE companies, university, and at least one private owned company.
> 
> Other research on conventional jet engine do take place with Indonesian Aerospace subsidiary company, PT NTP whose focus on industrial turbine and also PT Info Global which will focus on the electronic side.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Korean also focus on jet engine for missile and their UCAV. In term of KF 21 engine, Hanwa Korea will involve as well, in assembling and produce some components of F 414 engine.


Apparently other than J-20/F-22/Su-57, all countries will go for medium jets (or light jets) in next gen, config either single hi-thrust or twin medium-thrust. In the case of China, J-XY/35 will fly with PLAN soon, so I'm interested to watch development progress of others flying in the same config like KFX/IFX. Do you know any other similar jet/demo/prototype flying soon?


----------



## Indos

Shotgunner51 said:


> Apparently other than J-20/F-22/Su-57, all countries will go for medium jets (or light jets) in next gen, config either single hi-thrust or twin medium-thrust. In the case of China, J-XY/35 will fly with PLAN soon, so I'm interested to watch development progress of others flying in the same config like KFX/IFX. Do you know any other similar jet/demo/prototype flying soon?



Twin engine Stealth that will come after 2030 maybe Tempest from European consortium (British/Germany/Italia/Spain), but look like they are still negotiating on workshare, IP, and other thing


----------



## Shotgunner51

Indos said:


> Twin engine Stealth that will come after 2030 maybe Tempest from European consortium (British/Germany/Italia/Spain), but look like they are still negotiating on workshare, IP, and other thing
> 
> View attachment 792467


So that's their Eurofighter 2.0? Looks like a dummy, for sure not gonna fly in year or two. Seems like only J-XY/35 and KFX/IFX will be flying next year.


----------



## Indos

Shotgunner51 said:


> So that's their Eurofighter 2.0? Looks like a dummy, for sure not gonna fly in year or two. Seems like only J-XY/35 and KFX/IFX will be flying next year.



Way to go, that is just a conceptual design. Not yet reach final basic design and still far away from detail design phase. 2035 is the completion of the development according to the recent plan.

Yup, that is just mock up.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Ali_Baba

Indos said:


> Twin engine Stealth that will come after 2030 maybe Tempest from European consortium (British/Germany/Italia/Spain), but look like they are still negotiating on workshare, IP, and other thing
> 
> View attachment 792467



Tempest is really the UK with Sweden and Italy for now with collaboration with Japan on engines and radars on the side.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Shotgunner51

Ali_Baba said:


> Tempest is really the UK with Sweden and Italy for now with collaboration with Japan on engines and radars on the side.


Yes I just dig some info on it, your are right. It's like UK+Sweden+Italy (UK-Japan side deal on engine/radar) "Tempest" as one team, France+Germany+Spain "FCAS" as another. Both seems to be so-called 6th gen concepts, quite a distant future from now even if they do get materialized.

By now I can count three "next gen" jets that may fly within a year of two: J-XY/35, Su-75, KFX/IFX.


----------



## MrSato1

Shotgunner51 said:


> Yes I just dig some info on it, your are right. It's like UK+Sweden+Italy (UK-Japan side deal on engine/radar) "Tempest" as one team, France+Germany+Spain "FCAS" as another. Both seems to be so-called 6th gen concepts, quite a distant future from now even if they do get materialized.
> 
> By now I can count three "next gen" jets that may fly within a year of two: J-XY/35, Su-75, KFX/IFX.



I am pretty sure the J-XY/35 has already flew, literally the only image we've seen of it was it flying!


----------



## siegecrossbow

Shotgunner51 said:


> Yes I just dig some info on it, your are right. It's like UK+Sweden+Italy (UK-Japan side deal on engine/radar) "Tempest" as one team, France+Germany+Spain "FCAS" as another. Both seems to be so-called 6th gen concepts, quite a distant future from now even if they do get materialized.
> 
> By now I can count three "next gen" jets that may fly within a year of two: J-XY/35, Su-75, KFX/IFX.



I have a feeling Europe is late to the game again. Keep in mind that Typhoon and Rafale were supposed to be their contenders for "next generation fighters" when the Raptor came out and changed the definition.


----------



## FuturePAF

siegecrossbow said:


> I have a feeling Europe is late to the game again. Keep in mind that Typhoon and Rafale were supposed to be their contenders for "next generation fighters" when the Raptor came out and changed the definition.


It was developed after the Su-27 was first seen, so now that the Su-57 is ramping up, they will field their own fifth Gen fighter. For the Europeans, if they develop to defend themselves against Russia, they aren’t that far behind, but if they extend themselves to take on China, then they have just left it up to the F-35 to see them through, like the Brits and their F-35Bs on their carriers.


----------



## Indos

Ali_Baba said:


> Tempest is really the UK with Sweden and Italy for now with collaboration with Japan on engines and radars on the side.



So Japan has already joined the program ? I think it is then related to Japan FX program, particularly the collaboration on critical components, engine and radar.


----------



## Indos

*(LEAD) Indonesia agrees to keep commitment to fighter program with S. Korea: DAPA*
*All News* 21:38 November 11, 2021
SHARE LIKE SAVE PRINT
FONT SIZE
(ATTN: ADDS photo)

By Song Sang-ho

SEOUL, Nov. 11 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia agreed Thursday to retain its financial commitment to a joint fighter development project with South Korea, Seoul's state arms procurement agency said, ending years of speculation it could pull out of the costly undertaking.

The Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) said Indonesia reaffirmed its earlier pledge to shoulder 20 percent of the cost for the 8.8 trillion-won (US$7.4 billion) project, called KF-X, and agreed to make 30 percent of its total payments in kind.

Indonesia made the pledge during this week's negotiations in Jakarta with Seoul officials, as the country's overdue payments for the project, which stand at 800 billion won, had reinforced a sense that the Southeast Asian country might no longer be interested in the development efforts.









This photo, provided by the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), shows officials from South Korea and Indonesia, including DAPA chief Kang Eun-ho (4th from L), posing for a photo after signing an agreement regarding cost sharing for a joint fighter development project in Jakarta on Nov. 11, 2021. (PHOTO NOT FOR SALE) (Yonhap)
hide caption
previousnext
*1* of 2






DAPA officials did not specify when and how Indonesia would address the overdue payments, but stressed its reiteration of a will to stay in the project was a "major" outcome of the latest negotiations.

Indonesia first agreed to pay 20 percent of the development cost in 2010. But it stopped making payments in 2017, casting doubts over whether it would continue to stay onboard.

DAPA chief Kang Eun-ho was part of the Korean negotiation team that arrived in the Indonesia capital Tuesday.

"The agreement this time bears great meaning given that the two countries have concluded their negotiations in a mutually beneficial direction through sufficient consultations between them," Kang was quoted by his office as saying.

By the end of this year, the number of Indonesian technicians assigned to the KF-X project in Korea will jump to 100 from the current 32, the DAPA said, in yet another sign of the country's commitment to the project.

South Korea has been working on the KF-X project since 2015 to develop an advanced homegrown fighter jet to replace the Air Force's aging fleet of F-4 and F-5 jets.









(LEAD) Indonesia agrees to keep commitment to fighter program with S. Korea: DAPA | Yonhap News Agency


(ATTN: ADDS photo)By Song Sang-ho SEOUL, Nov. 11 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia agreed Thursday t...




en.yna.co.kr


----------



## Indos

From what I see after so many years following KF21/IFX news, Indonesian parliament is really supporting the program. It includes current parliament which is resulted from 2019 election.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

South Korea DAPA Minister, Gang Eun-ho, met with Meutya Hafid, Chairman of Commission 1 DPR (Indonesian Parliament) and several parliament members from Commission 1 where defense is one of the commission focus.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458354832629125120
Translation:

"Annyeonghaseyo yeorobun! This morning, Commission I of the DPR RI met with HE Mr. Gang Eun-ho, DAPA (Minister of Defense Acquisition Program Administration Korea) to discuss efforts to improve bilateral relations between Korea and Indonesia, especially in the defense sector"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Shotgunner51

MrSato1 said:


> I am pretty sure the J-XY/35 has already flew, literally the only image we've seen of it was it flying!


Well literally that's true! I guess it will flying in navy paint next year.


siegecrossbow said:


> I have a feeling Europe is late to the game again. Keep in mind that Typhoon and Rafale were supposed to be their contenders for "next generation fighters" when the Raptor came out and changed the definition.


Obviously they are very late, that's why I doubt anything "next gen" will come out soon. Raptor defines what is next gen but it's a twin hi-thrust heavy jet reserved for US only, Lightning is the one making an impact across Europe.


----------



## Indos

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459112489874976773


----------



## Indos

*Indonesian Air Force supports KF 21/IFX program.*

-----------------------------------------------------

From Air Force statement after meeting with SK DAPA Minister :

Google Translate :

Kasau Marshal TNI Fadjar Prasetyo, S.E., M.P.P., received a visit from South Korea's Minister of Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) H.E. Gang Eun-Ho, at Headquarters Cilangkap, Jakarta, Friday (12/11/2021).

At the meeting, they discussed defense industry cooperation related to the development of KFX/IFX fighter aircraft with South Korea and the development of Indonesia-South Korea defense equipment cooperation.

On this occasion, Kasau said that this cooperation could further develop the Indonesian defense industry.

Therefore, the cooperation between Korea and Indonesia through the development of the defense industry is an extraordinary cooperation and certainly shows the close relationship between the two countries.

"TNI AU will fully assist and support all the good cooperation so far," said Kasau.

Also present to accompany the Kasau, Wakasau, Asrena Kasau, Asintel Kasau, Asops Kasau, Aslog Kasau and Head of the Indonesian Ministry of Defense's Head of Research and Development, while South Korea's Minister of Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) H.E. Gang Eun-Ho was accompanied by the Director General of the KF-X Program Mr. Keangsun Jun, and Athan South Korea Capt. Jun Yun-soo,.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Origin from Air Force Official Facebook Account:











Facebook







www.facebook.com


----------



## Song Hong

As more information is being revealed, it now seems to me that KFX stealth capability may not be good. The weapons are hanging lose under the wings and belly. This will have quite a lot of RCS. Indonesia is threatening to pull out.














Korean officials fly to Jakarta to claim delayed KF-X payments


South Korean officials on Tuesday flew to Jakarta to claim development costs Indonesia owes to Korea for the joint development of next-generation KF-X fighters. According to industry sources, a Korean task force of 10 officials from Korea Aerospace Industries and the Defense Acquisition...



www.koreaherald.com












Speculation mounts over Indonesia pulling out of KF-X fighter project


Speculation is again mounting over Indonesia pulling out of participation in Korea's KF-X fighter project, with the Southeast Asian country reportedly seeking to buy aircraft from the United States and France despite its snowballing arrears from the joint development program. Some say Indonesia...




www.koreatimes.co.kr


----------



## Indos

Song Hong said:


> As more information is being revealed, it now seems to me that KFX stealth capability may not be good. The weapons are hanging lose under the wings and belly. This will have quite a lot of RCS. Indonesia is threatening to pull out.
> 
> View attachment 796483
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Korean officials fly to Jakarta to claim delayed KF-X payments
> 
> 
> South Korean officials on Tuesday flew to Jakarta to claim development costs Indonesia owes to Korea for the joint development of next-generation KF-X fighters. According to industry sources, a Korean task force of 10 officials from Korea Aerospace Industries and the Defense Acquisition...
> 
> 
> 
> www.koreaherald.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speculation mounts over Indonesia pulling out of KF-X fighter project
> 
> 
> Speculation is again mounting over Indonesia pulling out of participation in Korea's KF-X fighter project, with the Southeast Asian country reportedly seeking to buy aircraft from the United States and France despite its snowballing arrears from the joint development program. Some say Indonesia...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.koreatimes.co.kr



KF21/IFX will be developed gradually, first block is less stealthy, it is already announced since 2015. While your news you brought here is already late, newer news have been posted above your post.

While I want to bring here F 35 capability as KF21/IFX competitor in the international market


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463537965574021123


----------



## Indos

*DAPA confirms cost adjustments to KF-21 development programme*
*24 NOVEMBER 2021

by Alessandra Giovanzanti*






The overall cost of the engineering and manufacturing development (EMD) phase of the KF-21/IF-X multirole fighter aircraft programme has been adjusted from approximately KRW8.6 trillion (USD7.2 billion) to KRW8.1 trillion (USD6.8 billion), South Korea's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) told _Janes_.

A DAPA spokesperson confirmed to _Janes_ on 24 November that, because the KF-21 has been designated as a ‘defence article' and therefore is exempt from value-added taxes, the EMD cost had been adjusted and is now being reflected in the cost-sharing agreement between South Korea and Indonesia.

DAPA said that Indonesia's cost share for the KF-21/IF-X development programme will total approximately KRW1.6 trillion (USD1.35 billion), KRW100 billion lower than initially estimated. The South Korean cost share will also be adjusted accordingly.






DAPA confirms cost adjustments to KF-21 development programme


The overall cost of the engineering and manufacturing development (EMD) phase of the KF-21/IF-X multirole fighter aircraft programme has been adjusted from approximately...



www.janes.com


----------



## Indos

737-500 testbed for the KF-21 AESA radar


----------



## Indos

KF21/IFX production facility in Indonesian Aerospace. The picture has been around since about 4 months ago but I dont post it here before I can get confirmation that robotic system shown on the picture really belongs to Indonesian Aerospace. Now I have got confirmation from Indonesian Aerospace engineer who involve in KFX/IFX program. The production facility hasnt completed yet, more money needs to be invested, but it is not just empty building/hangar like some member in other forum always claim.


----------



## Indos

This is export data of Indonesian Aerospace (PT Dirgantara Indonesia) 2015-2019

1. Planes
2. Aerostructure ( components).
3. Engineering service ( design, system integration, etc). We can see KAI Korea and it is actually related to KF21/IFX program where 116 Indonesian engineers take part in the design process.
4. Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul







This is what Engineering service look like. IPTN North America, Inc is Indonesia Aerospace subsidiary company who is located in Seattle USA. https://www.indonesian-aerospace.com/about/subsidiaries

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Battlion25

Indos said:


> KF21/IFX production facility in Indonesian Aerospace. The picture has been around since about 4 months ago but I dont post it here before I can get confirmation that robotic system shown on the picture really belongs to Indonesian Aerospace. Now I have got confirmation from Indonesian Aerospace engineer who involve in KFX/IFX program. The production facility hasnt completed yet, more money needs to be invested, but it is not just empty building/hangar like some member in other forum always claim.
> 
> View attachment 799562



Is that a KFX production factory


----------



## Indos

Battlion25 said:


> Is that a KFX production factory



Yup, but we still needs to invest more, we are just invested less than half of what is needed for KF21/IFX production facility. This is just for minimum production facility, if the order from Indonesian defense Minister is many, than more facility needs to be made to speed up production process.


----------



## Indos

Finally, Indonesian journalist, which is now represented by Kompas, the most respected Indonesian print media beside Tempo, makes a long report about KF 21/IFX program by using our own source (*Bappenas Head (Minister of Planning)*, Ministry of Defense spoke person, *Finance Ministry spokesperson*, Foreign Ministry high official and spokesperson ) instead of just translating Korean media like Yonhap. Although a bit confusing as in the end of the report, Kompas put Reuters/AFP as source.

I have urged Indonesian journalist to be more creative in making news about KF21/IFX, something that should be easily done since many good sources can be used to make the report from PTDI, Defense Ministery, Bappenas, Minister of Finance, ITB lectures and former Air Force generals/ pilots.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Coming from Google Translate and the photo comes from other source since I cannot copy paste all of their infographic and pictures posted in the report.

By B JOSIE SUSILO HARDIANTO
21 November 2021 07:51 WIB·

*KF-21 “Game Changer” Project*
South Korea together with Indonesia developed a fighter aircraft now named KF-21 Boramae. The move can be a milestone towards independence.








Proudly, South Korean President Moon Jae-in attended the Seoul International Aerospace & Defense Exhibition or ADEX sitting in the back seat of an FA-50 fighter jet. In front of hundreds of invited guests in attendance, Moon expressed his pride in the FA-50's performance. He praised his state -made fighter jets.

"I can feel the greatness of the FA-50 that we developed with our own technology," said Moon. He further stressed that it was time for the South Korean arms industry to become a global leader. He also expressed his support for the strengthening of the South Korean military which aims to build defense forces and cultivate peace.

The statement cannot be separated from the awareness of the situation and challenges in the region. For the record, before ADEX was held, in mid -October North Korea tested their ballistic missiles.

To support the strengthening of the domestic alutsista industry, South Korea has set aside at least 80 percent of its budget for the purchase of alutsista and its spare parts from domestic manufacturers. Its main focus is on a number of areas needed for future wars, such as artificial intelligence, drones, robots, and space.

"We envision a smart, but strong military based on advanced science and technology, and promote peace together with the international community," Moon added.

On the other hand, independence in the field of defense also boosted the South Korean foreign exchange. Based on data from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), the value of South Korean arms exports in the period 2016-2020 increased 210 percent higher than the export value of the period 2011-2015. Indonesia is one of the major users of South Korean products, including the KT-1 Woongbi, T-50i Golden Eagle, Changbogo submarine, and LPD.

Read also: RI-South Korea Continues Manufacture of KFX Fighter Aircraft

Related to defense cooperation, since 2014, Seoul and Jakarta have agreed to develop a 4.5-generation fighter aircraft, the KFX-IFX. Last April, at the headquarters of Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI), President Moon led the launch ceremony of the KFX prototype. In the ceremony attended by the Minister of Defense of the Republic of Indonesia Prabowo Subianto, KFX got a new name, KF-21 Boramae.

In the future, the Boramae developed to replace the US-made F-4 and F-5 will be the backbone of the South Korean Air Force. Despite the class difference and not as sophisticated as the US-made F-35, the technology embedded in the GE414-400K engine aircraft is quite qualified. In addition to the AESA radar developed by Hanwha Systems, Boramae is also projected to be capable of carrying a long -range missile, the Meteor.


Boramae, which is one of the milestones of South Korean military technology, marks what Moon calls a new era of South Korean national defense independence. "Whenever we need it, we can make it," Moon said.

That independence made South Korea not only profitable strategically, but also economically. In addition to increasing the capacity and capability of the domestic defense industry, exports of military products also spur economic growth. Dependence on the US as the main supplier of defense equipment to Seoul can also be gradually reduced.

Indonesia's involvement in the KF-21 project for a number of parties in the country is expected to trigger the same hope. Indonesia has become more independent in fulfilling defense equipment/weapons, including strategic defense equipment/ weapons.

Once covered in uncertainty since 2018 due to stagnation in funding, Indonesia at the beginning of this month finally agreed to continue to be involved in the development of the project. After a lengthy negotiation process, in addition to being exempted from the payment of value added tax on Boramae, which will become part of Indonesia, the payment by Jakarta for the project was also revised to 1.35 billion US dollars.

*Independence*

For some, the long -term sustainability of the project is a relief. The reason is, until now, for the fulfillment of fighter jets, Indonesia still depends on other countries. Indonesia is currently in the process of discussing the procurement of Rafale from France and F-15EX from the United States.


In a written reply sent to Kompas, the Public Relations Bureau of the Secretariat General of the Ministry of Defense (Ministry of Defense) mentioned that for the Rafale fighter aircraft procurement agreement, the Ministry is still waiting for the determination of the source of funding from the Ministry of Finance. For the procurement of F-15EX, the current position is still in the negotiation stage between the US and Indonesia.

Read also: RI-South Korea Continues Manufacture of KFX Fighter Aircraft

With the Rafale and F-15EX procurement plans, the F-16 Viper purchase plan will be diverted to the F-15EX procurement. Related to SU-35, as reported, although the purchase contract has been signed, so far it is still constrained by CAATSA and OFAC sanctions from the US.

No wonder if the continuity of the KF-21/IFX development process can open the door of hope. Moreover, as conveyed by the Public Relations Bureau of the Secretariat General of the Ministry of Finance, the continuation of cooperation refers to the decision of President Joko Widodo. The cooperation is expected to be implemented in real steps to increase Indonesia's ability to build its infrastructure independently.

In the KF-21/IFX project, the national defense industry involved is PT Dirgantara Indonesia. "As a result of initial discussions with South Korea, PT Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero) asked to be the sole supplier (50 percent) of wings, tails, and other parts or (pylons)," said the Public Relations Bureau of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

In a separate interview, Bappenas Chief Suharso Monoarfa assessed the importance of the national defense industry's involvement in defense equipment procurement. Indonesia, according to him, has experience in making airplanes.

In addition to being able to design aircraft platforms, including the CN235 and N250, Indonesia is currently in the global supply chain for Airbus, Boeing, and Embraer. Indonesia, according to Suharso, has a capacity that cannot be underestimated.

Referring to the development of the N250, Indonesia has mastered aircraft design since the 1990s. Indonesia was even able to fly the N250, which has the ability to fly by wire, in August 1995. The aircraft was 100 percent built by Indonesian experts.

Also read: F-16 Viper, F-15EX, Rafale, or SU-35

"Making the aircraft that is important is the design, avionics, radar, electricity, etc. will adapt to the design and construction of the aircraft," said Suharso.

Regarding KF-21/IFX, Suharso argued that Indonesia also wants to have the strength to build its defense industry. On the other hand, according to him, there is a need for appropriate and wide spatial support for Indonesian researchers and experts to develop themselves.

KOMPAS/ANGGER PUTRANTO
A number of F-16 aircraft maneuvered in the TNI Joint Exercise entitled Dharma Yudha 2019 in Situbondo, Wednesday (11/9/2019). As many as 12,000 soldiers from three levels of the TNI held a war simulation rehearsal based on the integration of communications via satellite or known as Network Centric Warfare.

Military technology engineering, according to him, such as passive radar, to design and build aircraft can be used for civilian interests, such as mitigation and disaster response. In addition, Indonesia also needs to maintain the sustainability of the technology it already has, including fighter aircraft technology obtained from the ownership of F-16s and T-50s.

*Trust*

In the perspective of international cooperation, sustainability is important to build mutual trust, both bilaterally and globally. Referring to the data of the Investment Coordinating Agency (BKPM), the realization of investment from South Korea is uphill.

In the first quarter of 2021, South Korean investment realization ranked third after Singapore and China. Its value reached 851.1 million US dollars, higher than the realization of US and Japanese investments, which were 447.1 million US dollars and 322.7 million US dollars, respectively. That achievement cannot be separated from the close Special Strategic Partnership between Indonesia and South Korea.

Contacted separately, the Director General of Asia Pacific and Africa of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Abdul Kadir Jailani, said that opportunities for cooperation with South Korea in the field of defense or alutsista remained wide open. "One of them can be seen from the continuation of the joint fighter aircraft project, which involves national strategic industries. In addition to the field of technology, cooperation is also open to increase human resources in the field, "said Kadir through a message sent through the WhatsApp service.

As BKPM's positive note, Kadir said, the strength of the cooperation was also seen in the realization of South Korean investment in Indonesia. Citing BKPM data, Kadir said that in the second quarter of this year, South Korea's direct investment rose again to 1.1 billion US dollars.

"The increase in South Korean investment in Indonesia is inseparable from the high priority of South Korea towards Indonesia, especially as a special strategic partner. South Korea's New Southern Policy is indeed aimed at increasing cooperation with ASEAN countries, "said Kadir added.

Not surprisingly, the development of KF-21/IFX is expected to be part of the concrete steps of the partnership. In addition, this project could also be an opportunity for Indonesia to go higher independently.

(AFP/Reuters) 









KF-21 Proyek ”Pengubah Permainan”


Korea Selatan bersama Indonesia mengembangkan pesawat tempur yang kini dinamai KF-21 Boramae. Langkah itu dapat menjadi tonggak pencapaian menuju kemandirian.




www.kompas.id

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Indos

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1472649182443835393

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ali_Baba

Has Indonesia cleared/payed its bills(investments) for KFX/IFX yet ?


----------



## Indos

Ali_Baba said:


> Has Indonesia cleared/payed its bills(investments) for KFX/IFX yet ?



Not yet, the budget has just been proposed this year, about middle year, so it is impossible we will have budget disbursed this year. The budget is not only to pay the cost share, but also to complete production infrastructure for KF21/IFX program in Indonesia Aerospace facility and separate R&D program still related to the program. InshaAllah next year.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Indos said:


> Not yet, the budget has just been proposed this year, about middle year, so it is impossible we will have budget disbursed this year. The budget is not only to pay the cost share, but also to complete production infrastructure for KF21/IFX program in Indonesia Aerospace facility and separate R&D program still related to the program. InshaAllah next year.



The South Koreans are a very patient people it seems - far more than i would be  !!!


----------



## Indos

Ali_Baba said:


> The South Koreans are a very patient people it seems - far more than i would be  !!!



Well Indonesian is with South Korean since the start of the program (2011), despite we dont pay the investment since 2017, our design engineers (116 engineers) are still working until the detail design is completed in 2019 September. They get home in 2020 May, but still do design work for tandem version in Indonesia Aerospace office in Bandung and the production team makes several components for 1,2, and 6 prototypes. Indonesia also paid its financial commitment in the start of 2019. Every year that should be 2 payment according to the deal, in the beginning of the year and in the end of the year.

South Korea also has made some trouble during 2013-2014 due to the changes in administration and waiting for Korean parliament support. It makes the program is delayed for 2 years and Indonesia is patience enough to wait the starting of the program again despite Eurofighter and SAB Gripen offer huge TOT and local manufacturing if we buy their planes. During the delay we also fund our own R&D program related to Stealth fighter program to improve the younger engineers capability before the program starts again, some were going abroad to get Master degree in Western nation university.

As Korean asked Indonesian only to bring experience engineers to Korea ( above 35 years old) so our own program is basically effected due to that Korean requirement. More over, KF21/IFX design with optimum double engine design gets huge pressure in Korea to be dumped as KAI challenge the design made by ADD Korea and Indonesian Aerospace with single Stealth design to lower the production cost and complexity of the program. It is the case during 2013-2014 period. At that time C103 design that become the base of current KF21 design has been made. There are 2 design made and selected during that period. 






Indonesian participation is one important factors (beside the support of ADD Korea and South Korea Air Force) that eventually make double engine KF21 design is chosen over single KAI design, South Korean who understand about the program like defense enthusiast "slowman" also see Indonesian factor as very important during the moment where the program gets pressured inside Korean due to high cost and high complexity of double engine design, as well as related to the program continuation itself. It is difficult to dumb a program where a foreign nation has already been part of the program. Indonesia is invited by South Korea to join the program in 2009.

Any way, we are in Indonesia is also patiently waiting for the money to be disbursed by our Finance Minister, Sri Mulyani, soon. She is now having the vital position regarding to the program financing. This Jokowi administration is more on economic centric and see every thing in economic angle, rather different with SBY administration who starts the program in 2011 (MOU in 2009). Despite so, I believe Jokowi as President supports the program after the deal has been reached. He has made the program as priority program in President regulation about defense in 2021. It has political support already, coming directly from President. It is different with Rafale and F15 EX acquisition plan that come out from Defense Minister office and currently havent been approved by Minister of Finance.

Here in Indonesia many are upset with current administration handling on the payment, but we dont have any option left beside waiting and waiting for Sri Mulyani to finally disburse the budget to Minister of Defense.........She basically can use LPDP budget coming from her own Finance ministry budget to finance the program, at least for separate R&D program while payment and production facility investment can be taken from Defense Ministry budget.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

The Ministry of National Defense announced yesterday that South Korea's indigenous Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle (UCAV) will be operated in tandem with KF-21 Boramae fighters.

Known as KAORI-X (가오리-X), South Korea's indigenous UCAV has been under development by Korean Air Aerospace Division (KAL-ASD) and the Agency for Defense Development (ADD) since early-to-mid 2010s.

The latest announcement confirms the theory that Kaori-X UCAV is not a standalone development. Instead, it will be operated alongside KF-21 Boramae in a similar manner as "Loyal Wingman" being developed by Boeing Australia.















軍, KF-21·가오리-X 유무인 복합 운용 도입 공식화


[서울=뉴시스] 박대로 기자 = 군이 국산 전투기 KF-21과 국산 무인 스텔스 전투기 가오리-X를 복합 운용하겠다는 계획을 공식화했다




newsis.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tshering22

Indos said:


> 737-500 testbed for the KF-21 AESA radar
> 
> View attachment 799557
> 
> View attachment 799558
> 
> View attachment 799559
> 
> View attachment 799560



That's one huge-*** testbed platform for such a small nose-mounted radar. Koreans really have good money to spend. Usually, these testbeds are done on smaller corporate jet-type aircraft.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

*KF-21 Boramae JHMCS II.*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477617730773987332


----------



## Indos

*KF21/IFX engine*


----------



## Indos

Indos said:


> *KF21/IFX engine*
> 
> View attachment 806226



F 414 engine is now 26.000 lb trust class



https://www.geaviation.com/sites/default/files/datasheet-F414-Enhanced.pdf


----------



## Indos

I want to bring "Indonesian" news on KFX/IFX to show this thread has better input than other KFX/IFX thread in other forum that only use Korean media as source.

This is the most extensive report about KFX/IFX program made by Indonesian mainstream media. Most Indonesian mainstream media dont have defense specialist journalist, but this report is quite informative since they interview many Indonesian who are involved in the program, including Indonesian KFX/IFX program manager. The reports were made in 2016 March and this is so far the most extensive report about the program made by Indonesian media

*In this edition there are many report about the program so you can find other interesting information
that cannot be found in other forum or media if you lurk on this edition.*










Fokus : Jet Siluman 'Buatan' Indonesia - CNN Indonesia


Deskripsi fokus Korea Selatan bersama Indonesia mengembangkan jet tempur generasi 4,5 yang dirancang dengan mengadopsi teknik geometri pesawat siluman. Proyek yang diberi nama KF-X/IF-X itu sekarang memasuki fase pembuatan prototipe. Transfer teknologi jadi sorotan.




www.cnnindonesia.com





-----------------------------------------------------------------


*Create a fighter jet, Indonesia prepares massive resources*​

Anggi Kusumadewi, Resty Armenia, Prima Gumilang | CNN Indonesia
Wednesday, 02 Mar 2016 12:39 WIB





PT Dirgantara Indonesia has prepared composing hangars, titanium hangars, production hangars, and final assembly hangars for fighter aircraft. (ANTARA/Novrian Arbi)


Jakarta, CNN Indonesia -- “Warplanes are like cell phones. The technology has changed over the years, whether it's about electronics, sensors or weapons."

Heri Yansyah, Head of the Korea Fighter Xperiment/Indonesia Fighter Xperiment (KF-X/IF-X) program at PT Dirgantara Indonesia, said this while talking to CNNIndonesia.com, Friday (19/2).

“So Indonesia must be able to upgrade this ever-changing technology. If you don't have the ability to upgrade, then buy the same aircraft as neighboring countries, then in two or three years, Indonesia will be defeated," said Heri.

Although comparing fighter planes with mobile phones, to make it far from easy. It took more than 10 years to develop the KF-X/IF-X which was designed to be a 4.5 generation multi-role fighter jet with technology approaching the capabilities of a 5th generation stealth fighter.

Since the jet engine was first developed in 1946, fighter aircraft have evolved to the fifth generation. This latest generation combines stealth technology for undetected radar, supersonic roaming capabilities, and new integrated sensors.

The only 5th generation fighter aircraft currently in service is the US Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor. While a number of other jets from that generation, such as the F-35 Lighting II and the Sukhoi PAK FA, are still at the testing stage.

To make the KF-X/IF-X prototype, Indonesian and South Korean scientists will work hand in hand at the Korea Aerospace Industries headquarters in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province.

"At the peak of prototyping, 200 Indonesian engineers will be involved," said Heri, who in the 2011-2012 period went to South Korea for 18 months to work on the first phase of the KF-X/IF-X project, namely concept development.

The number of Indonesian engineers who went to South Korea in the second phase of work – prototyping – starting in 2016 was far more than the first phase, which only amounted to 52 people.

The Indonesian scientists will come to South Korea gradually over the next 10 years. "There are engineers who have to stay there for a full 10 years, but there are also those who are rotated," said Heri.

*Build facilities*

Domestically, Indonesia is speeding up the preparation of human resources and technology, starting from research on the core technology of fighter jet engines, materials, avionics, aerodynamics, to building a laboratory to support this research.

In addition, although the production of KF-X/IF-X is centered in South Korea, the headquarters of PT Dirgantara Indonesia in Bandung, West Java, will be no less busy. PTDI will monitor all the work on the fighter aircraft.

PTDI, for example, has prepared the Indonesian Design Center (DCI) to build technology, infrastructure and simulation capabilities. In this place, all stages of work on the KF-X/IF-X in South Korea will be communicated.

DCI is a mirroring of the Design Center building which was also built in Sacheon, South Korea. The Design Center in Sacheon is a kind of sealed and sterile building. People who enter it are prohibited from bringing flash drives and computers. There, Indonesian and South Korean scientists will work together.

Indonesia was also assigned the task of making aircraft components for the right wing and tail, as well as under-wing reinforcement.

See also: Indonesia's Steep Road Makes a Stealth Fighter Plane

Also, Indonesia gets a share to make aircraft prototypes. A total of eight prototypes will be built – six flying prototypes, and two non-flying prototypes for structural testing.

"The fifth prototype will be made here," said Heri. "Why the fifth? Because this is the first time Indonesia has developed a fighter aircraft. For the first and second prototypes, Indonesia is not ready," added the PTDI aerodynamics expert.

Therefore, PTDI has also prepared composing hangar facilities, titanium hangars, production hangars, and final assembly hangars for fighter aircraft.









Buat Jet Tempur, Indonesia Siapkan Sumber Daya Besar-besaran


Pesawat tempur layaknya ponsel. Dalam setahun, teknologinya berkembang kian canggih. Membuatnya, jauh dari mudah. Infrastruktur dan manusia disiapkan.




www.cnnindonesia.com





--------------------------------------------------------------

It is old news, new development shows Indonesia government hasnt completed the investment for production facility and 116 Indonesian engineers were called to Indonesia in May 2020 during the production of the prototype, although the design phase has indeed been completed for single seat KF21 in late 2019. This is why Fifth prototype will be produced in Korea, different from the plan

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

Video of a ROKAF F-4 Phantom test launching the South Korean new Cheonryong Air Launched Cruise Missile (ALCM) developed for the KF-21 Boramae.






*Future *

Supersonic anti ship missile














New Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile for South Korea's KF-X Breaks Cover - Naval News


The first artist impression of a new supersonic anti-ship missile for South Korea's KF-X fighter has been released.




www.navalnews.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos




----------



## Leishangthem

Koreans are seriously regretting getting into this with Indonesia from what I read .


----------



## serenity

Leishangthem said:


> Koreans are seriously regretting getting into this with Indonesia from what I read .



What have you read and why are the Koreans regretting including Indonesia on the KFX program?


----------



## Indos

serenity said:


> What have you read and why are the Koreans regretting including Indonesia on the KFX program?



The person you quote is someone who is easy to talk but many of his claim is baseless. If you ask something like this, you need to ask him credible source to back his claim, not just wanting to hear what will come out from his mouth.


----------



## Leishangthem

serenity said:


> What have you read and why are the Koreans regretting including Indonesia on the KFX program?











인도네시아 "한국에 KF-X 분담금 낼 예산 없어" | 연합뉴스


(자카르타=연합뉴스) 성혜미 특파원 = 인도네시아가 한국에 차세대 전투기(KF-X/IF-X) 공동 투자·개발 사업 분담금을 낼 예산이 없다며 분...




www.yna.co.kr













"美, 인도네시아 공동개발 'KF-21' 기술유출 우려"


[더구루=길소연 기자] 미국이 인도네시아가 개발 부담금을 낸 한국형전투기 KF-21 사업에 기술 유출 우려를 피력했다는 주장이 나왔다. 인도네시아 매체 '카로사투클릭(karosatuklik)'은 지난 1일(현지시간) "미국이 자국의 전투기 제작 기술이 인도네시아의 손에 넘어가는 것을 원치 않아 인도네시아의 공동개발을 시기하고 있다"고 보도




theguru.co.kr


----------



## serenity

Indos said:


> The person you quote is someone who is easy to talk but many of his claim is baseless. If you ask something like this, you need to ask him credible source to back his claim, not just wanting to hear what will come out from his mouth.



I will make a judgement on what comes from him based on how well explained and proven it is and how reasonable that meta judgement is. Would do some of my own research and seek out opposing view to that (like a court might) to see if there is reason and how much of it. The whole process is about meta analysis as a basic kind of learning and opinion forming or moderation of what I hear.

That is the nature of these types of discussions. It is always demanded by everyone on their own things but strangely they always tend to be dismissive when it is Chinese. Well not everyone but plenty. Nothing is requiring assessment, proof, or reasoning when Indians and China haters make general statements that are totally ridiculous when it involves China.

Here you are already on the job because it only is beginning to look a little bad for Indonesia on what that person has said. Don't worry. I am not like those types of characters who will immediately jump up and down and take every word from every random as true. I only wish everyone will hold this type of standard and doubt for every propaganda piece coming from USA, Europe, Russia, and mostly India, the king of liars and propagandists... as many on this forum know since we have been on receiving end of endless Indian lies and propaganda.


----------



## serenity

Leishangthem said:


> 인도네시아 "한국에 KF-X 분담금 낼 예산 없어" | 연합뉴스
> 
> 
> (자카르타=연합뉴스) 성혜미 특파원 = 인도네시아가 한국에 차세대 전투기(KF-X/IF-X) 공동 투자·개발 사업 분담금을 낼 예산이 없다며 분...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yna.co.kr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "美, 인도네시아 공동개발 'KF-21' 기술유출 우려"
> 
> 
> [더구루=길소연 기자] 미국이 인도네시아가 개발 부담금을 낸 한국형전투기 KF-21 사업에 기술 유출 우려를 피력했다는 주장이 나왔다. 인도네시아 매체 '카로사투클릭(karosatuklik)'은 지난 1일(현지시간) "미국이 자국의 전투기 제작 기술이 인도네시아의 손에 넘어가는 것을 원치 않아 인도네시아의 공동개발을 시기하고 있다"고 보도
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theguru.co.kr



So based on the google translate on these two Korean articles it seems the issue is the money contribution from Indonesia is at 20% of project and Indonesia wants to reduce it. Also the US is expressing some concern for technology leakage to Indonesia because KFX contains A LOT of American technology.

I don't see how this shows Koreans are regretting Indonesian involvement. They seem to want Indonesia to keep their money contribution agreement and pay in cash instead of "in kind" whatever that means.

Also the US technology side of concerns is a baseless one since it is again not related to Koreans regretting having Indonesia involved in this.

I don't know but I'm guessing the project is developed by Koreans and Americans with Korean and American technologies and minimal if any contribution from Indonesia on this. Since it has been known Indonesia is a financing partner, the leak of technology concern is at the moment such a baseless concern since they would be aware of it from the start and also they would be aware of how much is available for Indonesia to absorb. Where the Koreans and Americans both control how much Indonesia is given that it can potentially then absorb. We haven't even begun thinking about truly how much Indonesia's current industry and ability is able to make use of this in a way for them to gain anything even if leaks are there where Americans and Koreans control the leaks themselves or have legal power to change that since they are majority stakeholders.


----------



## Indos

12 January 2022

Info Global CEO (the tallest guy) proposes Stealth UCAV program that could be used in IFX fighter. This proposal can lead to make a consortium of UCAV wingman program lead by Indonesian Aerospace (PT Dirgantara Indonesia).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Indos said:


> 12 December 2022
> 
> Info Global CEO (the tallest guy) proposes Stealth UCAV program that could be used in IFX fighter. This proposal can lead to make a consortium of UCAV wingman program lead by Indonesian Aerospace (PT Dirgantara Indonesia).
> 
> View attachment 808361


@JamD In case your Ertugrul option doesn't work out. You can try Indonesia.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Indos



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Tshering22

Indos said:


> I want to bring "Indonesian" news on KFX/IFX to show this thread has better input than other KFX/IFX thread in other forum that only use Korean media as source.
> 
> This is the most extensive report about KFX/IFX program made by Indonesian mainstream media. Most Indonesian mainstream media dont have defense specialist journalist, but this report is quite informative since they interview many Indonesian who are involved in the program, including Indonesian KFX/IFX program manager. The reports were made in 2016 March and this is so far the most extensive report about the program made by Indonesian media
> 
> *In this edition there are many report about the program so you can find other interesting information
> that cannot be found in other forum or media if you lurk on this edition.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fokus : Jet Siluman 'Buatan' Indonesia - CNN Indonesia
> 
> 
> Deskripsi fokus Korea Selatan bersama Indonesia mengembangkan jet tempur generasi 4,5 yang dirancang dengan mengadopsi teknik geometri pesawat siluman. Proyek yang diberi nama KF-X/IF-X itu sekarang memasuki fase pembuatan prototipe. Transfer teknologi jadi sorotan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnnindonesia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> *Create a fighter jet, Indonesia prepares massive resources*​
> 
> Anggi Kusumadewi, Resty Armenia, Prima Gumilang | CNN Indonesia
> Wednesday, 02 Mar 2016 12:39 WIB
> 
> View attachment 806489
> 
> PT Dirgantara Indonesia has prepared composing hangars, titanium hangars, production hangars, and final assembly hangars for fighter aircraft. (ANTARA/Novrian Arbi)
> 
> 
> Jakarta, CNN Indonesia -- “Warplanes are like cell phones. The technology has changed over the years, whether it's about electronics, sensors or weapons."
> 
> Heri Yansyah, Head of the Korea Fighter Xperiment/Indonesia Fighter Xperiment (KF-X/IF-X) program at PT Dirgantara Indonesia, said this while talking to CNNIndonesia.com, Friday (19/2).
> 
> “So Indonesia must be able to upgrade this ever-changing technology. If you don't have the ability to upgrade, then buy the same aircraft as neighboring countries, then in two or three years, Indonesia will be defeated," said Heri.
> 
> Although comparing fighter planes with mobile phones, to make it far from easy. It took more than 10 years to develop the KF-X/IF-X which was designed to be a 4.5 generation multi-role fighter jet with technology approaching the capabilities of a 5th generation stealth fighter.
> 
> Since the jet engine was first developed in 1946, fighter aircraft have evolved to the fifth generation. This latest generation combines stealth technology for undetected radar, supersonic roaming capabilities, and new integrated sensors.
> 
> The only 5th generation fighter aircraft currently in service is the US Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor. While a number of other jets from that generation, such as the F-35 Lighting II and the Sukhoi PAK FA, are still at the testing stage.
> 
> To make the KF-X/IF-X prototype, Indonesian and South Korean scientists will work hand in hand at the Korea Aerospace Industries headquarters in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province.
> 
> "At the peak of prototyping, 200 Indonesian engineers will be involved," said Heri, who in the 2011-2012 period went to South Korea for 18 months to work on the first phase of the KF-X/IF-X project, namely concept development.
> 
> The number of Indonesian engineers who went to South Korea in the second phase of work – prototyping – starting in 2016 was far more than the first phase, which only amounted to 52 people.
> 
> The Indonesian scientists will come to South Korea gradually over the next 10 years. "There are engineers who have to stay there for a full 10 years, but there are also those who are rotated," said Heri.
> 
> *Build facilities*
> 
> Domestically, Indonesia is speeding up the preparation of human resources and technology, starting from research on the core technology of fighter jet engines, materials, avionics, aerodynamics, to building a laboratory to support this research.
> 
> In addition, although the production of KF-X/IF-X is centered in South Korea, the headquarters of PT Dirgantara Indonesia in Bandung, West Java, will be no less busy. PTDI will monitor all the work on the fighter aircraft.
> 
> PTDI, for example, has prepared the Indonesian Design Center (DCI) to build technology, infrastructure and simulation capabilities. In this place, all stages of work on the KF-X/IF-X in South Korea will be communicated.
> 
> DCI is a mirroring of the Design Center building which was also built in Sacheon, South Korea. The Design Center in Sacheon is a kind of sealed and sterile building. People who enter it are prohibited from bringing flash drives and computers. There, Indonesian and South Korean scientists will work together.
> 
> Indonesia was also assigned the task of making aircraft components for the right wing and tail, as well as under-wing reinforcement.
> 
> See also: Indonesia's Steep Road Makes a Stealth Fighter Plane
> 
> Also, Indonesia gets a share to make aircraft prototypes. A total of eight prototypes will be built – six flying prototypes, and two non-flying prototypes for structural testing.
> 
> "The fifth prototype will be made here," said Heri. "Why the fifth? Because this is the first time Indonesia has developed a fighter aircraft. For the first and second prototypes, Indonesia is not ready," added the PTDI aerodynamics expert.
> 
> Therefore, PTDI has also prepared composing hangar facilities, titanium hangars, production hangars, and final assembly hangars for fighter aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buat Jet Tempur, Indonesia Siapkan Sumber Daya Besar-besaran
> 
> 
> Pesawat tempur layaknya ponsel. Dalam setahun, teknologinya berkembang kian canggih. Membuatnya, jauh dari mudah. Infrastruktur dan manusia disiapkan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnnindonesia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> It is old news, new development shows Indonesia government hasnt completed the investment for production facility and 116 Indonesian engineers were called to Indonesia in May 2020 during the production of the prototype, although the design phase has indeed been completed for single seat KF21 in late 2019. This is why Fifth prototype will be produced in Korea, different from the plan



What is the evolution plan for KF-21/IFX and what long-term plans has your government released in terms of phased acquisition? 

To make it economical, both you guys and the Koreans will have to buy around 150-200 units each, apart from the estimated exports and potential partners. UAE just snubbed an F-35 deal with the US. They may have limited capabilities but can be an excellent partner if Indonesia and South Koreans (in light of their recent sale of K-SAM) can convince them.


----------



## Indos

Tshering22 said:


> What is the evolution plan for KF-21/IFX and what long-term plans has your government released in terms of phased acquisition?
> 
> To make it economical, both you guys and the Koreans will have to buy around 150-200 units each, apart from the estimated exports and potential partners. UAE just snubbed an F-35 deal with the US. They may have limited capabilities but can be an excellent partner if Indonesia and South Koreans (in light of their recent sale of K-SAM) can convince them.



KF21/IFX program according to the plan will evolve from 4.5 generation fighter into 5 generation fighter. Later based on latest development, there is plan to improve it overtime to reach 6 generation fighter capability ( long term plan ).

48 fixed order and promise to make it our backbone fighters until 30-40 years to come ( stated by President during the roll out event ). Fighter jet development has already become a political decision and put on the President Law in January 2021. It is already a priority program in defense sector.

During KF 21 roll out event in April (South Korea)






I also think Indonesia will buy around 200 planes at minimum (gradually). As the economy is expected to double in 2030, the need to balance China in South East Asia region, and to prepare for increase instability in SCS. Indonesia also has law that forbid our Armed Force to buy defense equipment that can be produced locally.

Indonesia has long term acquisition plan in defense called Minimum Essential Force (MEF). It is quite aggressive posture if we can achieve it. After MEF is reached then the next program is likely to launch EF (Essential Force).

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## Indos




----------



## Deino

Indos said:


>




Well ... 003 & 004 are twin-seater??


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485232217190281217


----------



## Indos

Deino said:


> Well ... 003 & 004 are twin-seater??
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485232217190281217



Lets wait for tomorrow, I will try to ask Indonesian KF 21/IFX engineer

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

Deino said:


> Well ... 003 & 004 are twin-seater??
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485232217190281217



Tandem seat is for prototype 4 and prototype 6. Indonesia will get prototype 5 inshaAllah.


----------



## Indos

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485198975116484610


----------



## Indos

*Prototype 1*







*Prototypes 3 and 4*


----------



## Indos

Prototype 4 with tandem seats

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Since 5 Indonesia state owned companies in defense sector have been merged and it is now under PT LEN Industry ( electronic company), so I think the funding to support KF21/IFX program either related to separate R&D program, production facility, production during mass production phase (InshaAllah), etc will be easier inshaAllah.

The administrative process to make the holding (Defense ID) is still on going and expected to be completed in this month. KF21/IFX is already put as one of the products of the holding company.


----------



## Indos

South Korean KF21/IFX Head Program visited Indonesia Defense Ministry high official in Jakarta Today.






Previously South Korean DAPA Minister visited Prabowo in Jakarta late January 2022






*DAPA chief meets Indonesian defense chief*
Kang Eun-ho (2nd from L), head of South Korea's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), meets with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto (R) in Jakarta, Indonesia, on Jan. 26, 2022, in this photo provided by the South Korean Embassy in the Southeast Asian nation. (PHOTO NOT FOR SALE) (Yonhap)









DAPA chief meets Indonesian defense chief | Yonhap News Agency


Kang Eun-ho (2nd from L), head of South Korea's Defense Acquisition Program Administr...




en.yna.co.kr


----------



## Indos

Singapore Airshow 2022: KF-21 captures Asia-Pacific and European export interest​15th February 2022 - 04:25 GMT | by Tim Martin in Singapore






KAI has held talks with potential KF-21 fighter jet export customers from Asia-Pacific and Europe.

The KAI KF-21 Boramae 4.5-generation fighter has attracted the attention of potential buyers from Asia-Pacific and Europe, as the manufacturer begins to ramp up preparations for the first flight of the new jet in July.

KAI has completed production of four aircraft to undergo testing as part of an engineering, manufacturing and development (EMD) phase underwritten by South Korea.

The EMD will cover ground tests, flight tests, armament tests and a number of other airworthiness items, all to be held at the KAI facility in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province.

*‘We expect to complete testing in less than two years and begin production in 2024,’ Jae Yun Park, aircraft business development manager at KAI, told Shephard.*

In all, six prototypes are expected to undergo testing before production begins.

‘Roughly [production will cover] three squadrons and available to export customers after that,' Jae said. 'The government is going to decide and let us know when exactly it will be available for export programmes.

Some [of those interested] are in Asia-Pacific and some are in Europe.’
Park added that the US government would have to give export approval for KF-21 weapons packages before any such sales could move forward.





__





Singapore Airshow 2022: KF-21 captures Asia-Pacific and European export interest | Shephard


KAI has held talks with potential KF-21 fighter jet export customers from Asia-Pacific and Europe.



www.shephardmedia.com


----------



## Indos

AlhamduliLLAH, the payment is expected to happen in the first semester 2022

"In particular, when Kang Eun-ho, director of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration, visited Indonesia at the end of last month, it was reported that he received a message from Defense Minister Prabowo that 800 billion won in arrears on KF-21 would be resolved to some extent in the first half of the year."






인니, 프랑스산 라팔 전투기 42대 구매 합의…1차로 6대 도입(종합) – 실시간 인도네시아 뉴스 - 데일리 인도네시아







dailyindonesia.co.kr


----------



## Indos




----------



## lcloo

when will maiden flight take place?


----------



## Indos

lcloo said:


> when will maiden flight take place?



KAI prepares for KF-21 first-flight milestone​*23 FEBRUARY 2022

by Jon Grevatt*

A spokesperson from KAI told _Janes_ on 21 February that the company is preparing a First Flight Readiness Review (FFRR) and is ensuring the preparedness of components and line-replaceable units (LRUs) for the event.

*The KF-21's first flight is scheduled for July, the spokesperson confirmed.*

The preparation process is supported by continuing flight trials, undertaken by the KF-21 Combined Test Team (CTT) comprising KAI, the Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF), and the country's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA).

The KAI spokesperson said that by June the CTT will be operating six flyable KF-21 prototypes and two structural prototypes for assessments. Of the six flyable aircraft, four are single-seat and two are twin-seat platforms.

“Following common but essential ground and avionics tests and check-outs, each flyable KF-21 prototype is performing different kinds of trials and evaluations,” said the KAI spokesperson. “For example, if prototype number one undertakes an engine-aircraft compatibility test, prototype number three will undertake a ground vibration test.”

However, following the first flight of the aircraft in July, the testing strategy will change. “After the KF-21's first flight, each prototype will have a different flight mission for evaluation,” said the KAI spokesperson without elaborating.

The spokesperson added that the development of an essential element of the new KF-21 fighter – its AESA radar – has been completed and is now undergoing extensive performance assessments.





__





KAI prepares for KF-21 first-flight milestone


Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) is on track to conduct the first flight of its KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter aircraft, buoyed by the completed development of the...



www.janes.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

Jokowi met with South Korean parliament chairman in Bali during G20 meeting with parliament leaders of G 20 nations.

Interesting to see South Korean parliament chairman/leader as the first one being met with Jokowi. 

I wonder whether KFX/IFX program being discuss on the meeting, this is the previous opposition leader.


----------



## Indos

S. Korea to conduct domestic performance test for advanced radar​





​
Shown in this photo released by the Defense Acquisition Program Administration on Friday, shows a B-737 aircraft equipped with the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. (Yonhap)​


Published : Mar 4, 2022 - 10:45

South Korea will begin a domestic performance test on a homegrown radar system this month as part of the country's major fighter development project, the state arms procurement agency said Friday.

The military plans to kick off the test program in mid-March for the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar to be installed on the KF-21 jet currently under development. It is set to run through April next year.

Following an overseas test last year, the program is designed to identify and reduce any unforeseen operational risks through software optimization, DAPA officials said.

The military will mount the radar on a B-737 aircraft for the test program set to check 62 evaluation categories through a total of 50 flight tests. The program includes testing the radar's detection and tracking capabilities in an air-to-air mode.

The military will put the radar on the KF-21 fighter next year to continue its performance test through 2026, DAPA said.

South Korea was the world's 12th country to develop the AESA radar system with homegrown technologies.

South Korea, meanwhile, has been working on the KF-21 project since 2015 to replace the Air Force's aging fleet of F-4 and F-5 jets.

Since April last year, four prototypes of the KF-21 jet have been rolled out for testing purposes under a scheme to produce six of them for the defense project, according to DAPA. (Yonhap)









S. Korea to conduct domestic performance test for advanced radar


South Korea will begin a domestic performance test on a homegrown radar system this month as part of the country's major fighter development project, the state arms procurement agency said Friday. The military plans to kick off the test program in mid-March for the active electronically scanned...



www.koreaherald.com


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

Indos said:


> Jokowi met with South Korean parliament chairman in Bali during G20 meeting with parliament leaders of G 20 nations.
> 
> Interesting to see South Korean parliament chairman/leader as the first one being met with Jokowi.
> 
> I wonder whether KFX/IFX program being discuss on the meeting, this is the previous opposition leader.



Assembly speaker discusses cooperation with Indonesian president​*All News* 16:28 March 21, 2022


SEOUL, March 21 (Yonhap) -- National Assembly Speaker Park Byeong-seug met with Indonesian President Joko Widodo to discuss ways to bolster cooperation between the two nations, his office said Monday.

Park held talks with Widodo on the sidelines of the 144th Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) General Assembly in Bali, Indonesia, on Sunday (local time) as they exchanged their views on various issues, including global supply chain stability and *defense sector cooperation*.

During the talks, Park shared South Korea's experience in relocating its administrative capital to Sejong, as Indonesia is planning to move its capital from Jakarta in Java to a new city called Nusantara on the island of Borneo.

Widodo responded that he would like to send an envoy to South Korea to learn about its relocation experience and expressed his intent to visit the city of Sejong.





National Assembly Speaker Park Byeong-seug (L) speaks with Indonesian President Joko Widodo during their meeting held on the sidelines of the 144th Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) General Assembly in Bali, Indonesia, on March 20, 2022, in this photo provided by Park's office. (PHOTO NOT FOR SALE) (Yonhap)

Park then requested Indonesia's support for the stabilization of urea supply. Last December, the two nations signed a memorandum of understanding regarding urea supply chain in which South Korea will get 10,000 tons of urea per month for the next three years from Indonesia.

The Assembly speaker also asked for Indonesia's interest and support for South Korean firms. Widodo said he is "grateful" for the investment made by South Korean businesses and vowed his government and the parliament's support for South Korean firms.

The two also promised each other's support for South Korea's bid to host the 2030 World Expo in Busan, and Indonesia's hosting of the G20 Summit later this year.

Park is on a three-day visit to Indonesia for the IPU General Assembly, where parliamentary leaders from 110 nations discuss measures on climate change, global peace and virus prevention.

He is scheduled to depart for Malaysia on Wednesday to discuss cooperation in economic and defense sectors.
kdon@yna.co.kr









Assembly speaker discusses cooperation with Indonesian president | Yonhap News Agency


SEOUL, March 21 (Yonhap) -- National Assembly Speaker Park Byeong-seug met with Indonesian...




en.yna.co.kr


----------



## Indos

Indonesia's envoy in Seoul​*General* 16:48 April 26, 2022






*Indonesia's envoy in Seoul*
President Moon Jae-in (C) poses with Indonesian Ambassador to South Korea Gandi Sulistiyanto Soeherman (L) during a ceremony to receive the envoy's credentials at the presidential office Cheong Wa Dae in Seoul on April 26, 2022. On the right is South Korean Foreign Minister Chung Eui-yong. (Yonhap)









Indonesia's envoy in Seoul | Yonhap News Agency


President Moon Jae-in (C) poses with Indonesian Ambassador to South Korea Gandi Sulistiyan...




en.yna.co.kr


----------



## Indos

This photo is taken about a week ago, during Defend ID formation (state owned holding company in defense sector).

This shows products from Indonesian Aerospace ( PT Dirgantara Indonesia ). One of them is KF21/IFX fighter.


----------



## Indos

I have given the information in other forum several months ago, but now I give the information in this forum.

Indonesia Aerospace will get fifth prototype of KF21/IFX inshaAllah. The planes look like will be roll out soon. Single seat. The plane will only be given to Indonesia Aerospace after KF21/IFX gets Type certificate.

This is the information I gather from Indonesian KF21/IFX engineer that I know personally.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Recent event in Manila, Philippine (27-29 April 2022)









ADAS 2022: The future of security and AI technology in the Philippines


The future of security will be on display at the ADAS 2022 exhibition and conference, which is being held in Manila, the Philippines from April 27-29. The event features product presentations by major




technology.inquirer.net





Korea Aerospace Industries was represented heavily in the ADAS 2022 defense expo last week.










This two planes will likely become Indonesian future fighters backbone by adding new fighter squadrons based on our MEF (Minimum Essential Force Program (2009-2034) and then gradually replace all of our F 16, SU27/30, and also Hawks squadron after 2035.

Indonesia for instant has ordered another 6 T 50 Golden Eagle so total number until 2024 we will have 20 T 50 Golden Eagle with attack capability and equipped with radar and sidewinder AAM.

PS* : I extend the MEF program from 2009-2024 into 2034 since it is the realistic period to complete MEF program based on our current financial situation ( and current government focus and priority programs ) and also due to the long term target to develop our domestic defense industry more seriously.


----------



## Indos

*Yoon's flurry of diplomacy continues on day 2 in office




*​President Yoon Suk-yeol shakes hands with former Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri, the current head of the country's ruling Democratic Party of Struggle, during the latter's visit to the presidential office in Yongsan District, Seoul, Wednesday. Yonhap

By Nam Hyun-woo

Following his inauguration ceremony on Tuesday, President Yoon Suk-yeol spent his second day in office receiving dignitaries from various countries including Indonesia, Central African Republic (CAR), Canada, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Nigeria and Ecuador, who also attended the previous day's ceremony.

From Indonesia, former Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri, the current head of the country's ruling Democratic Party of Struggle, paid a visit to Yoon.

"Korea and Indonesia both have experiences of achieving democracy and economic development after overcoming historical hardships, and the experiences have contributed to the close partnership between the two countries," Yoon said.

"I look forward to seeing Indonesia's leadership as the president country of this year's Group of 20 summit and the chair country of ASEAN next year, and ask for Indonesia's support for Korea."

Megawati responded that Indonesian President Joko Widodo has sent his regards to Yoon and asked the new president to visit Indonesia in the near future.

*Indonesia is Korea's only special strategic partner country in ASEAN, after the status of their bilateral ties was upgraded during former President Moon Jae-in's visit to the country in 2017. Widodo paid a return visit to Seoul in September 2018.

The two countries are cooperating in a range of joint projects, including the fighter jet development program called the KF-X (Korean Fighter Experimental) here and the IF-X in Indonesia.

Last November, the two sides reached a final agreement on the cost-sharing for the program, with Indonesia shouldering 20 percent of the costs to be paid by 2026. Indonesia will also provide in-kind payments for 30 percent of its share, which are expected to be delivered as palm oil.*









Yoon's flurry of diplomacy continues on day 2 in office


President Yoon Suk-yeol revealed a bit about his leadership style on Wednesday, while presiding over his first meeting with senior presidential secretaries held in his new office i...




www.koreatimes.co.kr


----------



## Philip the Arab

If this goes through it will likely require internal weapon bays and integration of UAE made munitions.



https://www.tacticalreport.com/news/article/59628-uae-on-south-koreas-fifth-generation-fighter



Abu Dhabi’s cooperation with Seoul over the South Korean fifth-generation fighter program KF-X is reported to have been constantly under discussion between the two countries’ defense ministries.

The file is said to be directly followed up by UAE President Sheikh Mohammad Bin Zayed Al Nahyan and is expected to be on the discussion table during any upcoming meeting with officials from the South Korean Ministry of National Defense.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Indos said:


> ​
> *The two countries are cooperating in a range of joint projects, including the fighter jet development program called the KF-X (Korean Fighter Experimental) here and the IF-X in Indonesia.
> 
> Last November, the two sides reached a final agreement on the cost-sharing for the program, with Indonesia shouldering 20 percent of the costs to be paid by 2026. Indonesia will also provide in-kind payments for 30 percent of its share, which are expected to be delivered as palm oil.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yoon's flurry of diplomacy continues on day 2 in office
> 
> 
> President Yoon Suk-yeol revealed a bit about his leadership style on Wednesday, while presiding over his first meeting with senior presidential secretaries held in his new office i...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.koreatimes.co.kr



Actually 30 % of our share is most likely paid by CN 235/NC 212/N219 planes. Nope, it is not even Indonesia who push it, by South Korea as I see the document my selves.


----------



## Indos

Philip the Arab said:


> If this goes through it will likely require internal weapon bays and integration of UAE made munitions.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.tacticalreport.com/news/article/59628-uae-on-south-koreas-fifth-generation-fighter
> 
> 
> 
> Abu Dhabi’s cooperation with Seoul over the South Korean fifth-generation fighter program KF-X is reported to have been constantly under discussion between the two countries’ defense ministries.
> 
> The file is said to be directly followed up by UAE President Sheikh Mohammad Bin Zayed Al Nahyan and is expected to be on the discussion table during any upcoming meeting with officials from the South Korean Ministry of National Defense.



UAE has already bought 80 Rafale. I believe UAE will not buy KF21 this decade (if the program is successful). UAE will likely target KF21 Block 3 and possible further block for their future fully fifth generation fighters ( by dumping F35 from previous plan ).


----------



## Philip the Arab

Indos said:


> UAE has already bought 80 Rafale. I believe UAE will not buy KF21 this decade (if the program is successful). UAE will likely target KF21 Block 3 and possible further block for their future fully fifth generation fighters ( by dumping F35 from previous plan ).


It will replace the F-16s if they buy it, but as I said it has to be a lot more advanced than Block 60s for them to even think about purchasing it.

It would be closer to the F-35ish variant than the current one.


----------



## Indos

Korea's New Hunting Hawk KF-21 Readies for First Flight​






February 12, 2022

This year will likely prove critical for the Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) KF-21 Boramae, Korea’s new indigenous fighter, as its manufacturer prepares for a maiden flight scheduled for July. The KF-21 is KAI’s most advanced aircraft program to date, and although the Korean Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) classes the KF-21 as a 4.5-generation fighter because it lacks internal weapons carriage, it reportedly plans a more stealthy variant.

Despite its lack of true low-observable capability, many analysts believe that the KF-21 will enjoy a very low frontal radar cross-section and good electronic warfare capabilities, ensuring a high level of survivability. It also will likely fly higher and faster than the F-35, while carrying a formidable weapons load, particularly for air-to-air missions.

The KF-21 Boramae—whose name derives from the historical term describing one-year-old hunting hawks specifically trained for traditional falconry—is the product of an extremely ambitious program that aims to produce an aircraft that will form the future backbone of the Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF) and, indeed, of the Indonesian air force (TNI-AU). The program involves a joint venture between South Korea and Indonesia, with an 80:20 split between Seoul and Jakarta.

In April 2021 the KF-21 prototype rolled out at the KAI factory in Sacheon, and the six flying prototypes—including two two-seat trainers, the first of them being aircraft number 4—and two non-flying test articles have undergone rigorous ground testing since then. Pilot evaluation and interior and exterior lighting ground tests took place using the third prototype.

Plans call for testing to last until about 2026, after which mass production of the KF-21 will begin. The program aims to deploy 40 aircraft by 2028 and 120 by 2032. The new fighter initially would replace South Korea's F-4Es and F-5Es and it could also eventually replace the ROKAF's fourth-generation F-16s and F-15Ks. The TNI-AU expects to take delivery of some 50 under current plans.

However, the program carries more than just military importance. In the past few years, KAI has developed and produced a series of indigenous aircraft designs, and the company—originally established as a joint venture of Samsung Aerospace, Daewoo Heavy Industries' aerospace division, and the Hyundai Space and Aircraft Company—has become an industrial powerhouse, making a major contribution to the national economy and providing high-value jobs for Korean workers, with innovative training schemes, apprenticeships, and opportunities for young engineering graduates.

Among its products, the KT-1 Woongbi turboprop-powered basic trainer and T/FA-50 Golden Eagle advanced training/light fighter aircraft have won significant export orders, and KAI hopes that the KF-21 will also become an important driver of exports and a creator of as many as 100,000 jobs when full-scale mass production begins. The program carries an estimated value of 5.9 trillion Korean won ($5.2 billion). Exports remain a possibility, as the aircraft promises to be technologically advanced, operationally capable, and inexpensive.

The KF-21 also promises to give Korea’s aerospace industry invaluable experience in a number of important new technologies. Original plans called for the KF-21 (then known as the KF-X) to incorporate some U.S. technologies, the transfer of which to Korea had been agreed when the ROKAF signed for 40 F-35As, known locally as the “Freedom Knight”. Four technology areas formed “core technologies” necessary for the development of the KF-21, namely the active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar, the radio frequency (RF) jammer, the electro-optical targeting pod (EOTP), and the infrared search and track (IRST) system.

U.S. Congress subsequently deemed the technologies too sensitive for transfer, putting the whole KF-X program at risk. The Korean Agency for Defense Development (ADD) therefore conducted an in-depth feasibility study, eventually concluding that Korea itself could develop the technologies indigenously.

The most difficult and high-profile effort of the four probably centers on the development of a suitable AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar by Hanwha Systems with assistance from Israel's Elta Systems. Contrary to some reports, the new radar is not based on an existing Israeli radar, nor on Elta software, though the company has helped with “overseas aerial testing” in Israel using company equipment and aircraft. Elbit Systems is supplying the terrain-following/terrain-avoidance system to Hanwha. The partners claim an “89 percent localization rate” for the EASA radar.

Airborne testing has involved operating a test radar from the open rear ramp of a C-130 Hercules, as well as using a South African-registered Boeing 737-55S (ZS-TFJ), which has a KF-21 radome grafted onto its own nose. Development of the radar has reached completion after a decade of R&D effort and a three-year development program.

Hanwha is also developing the KF-21’s EOTP and nose-mounted IRST sensor, reportedly based on Leonardo's SkyWard system. South Korean company LIG Nex1 has begun work on a new integrated electronic warfare suite for the KF-21 with radar warning, radio frequency jamming, and chaff/flare systems.

One foreign-supplied system is the pilot’s ejection seat. The UK's Martin-Baker Aircraft began trials in February 2021 and has now finished testing. It will base ejection seat testing for the two-seat version of the aircraft on the ejection seat test results of the single-seat KF-21 and verify the results within the first half of next year.

Locally developed systems include the digital flight control computer, stores management computer, and embedded training unit, all under development by LIG Nex1. The Korean company also is developing the low-profile head-up display, which uses BAE Systems' waveguide-optics technology. Meanwhile, Hanwha Techwin will support locally assembled General Electric F414-400K engines from the U.S.









Korea's New Hunting Hawk Readies for First Flight


KAI expects to fly the prototype of its KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter this year.




www.ainonline.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Around 5 Indonesian fighter pilots that are tasked to help KFX/IFX development and are prepared to test Indonesian IFX made prototype have finished studying in Bandung Institute of Technology as aerospace engineer (and also test pilot school at England some years ago) and has also helped PTDI to test N219 plane until getting certification in late 2020.

PTDI itself has already had test pilot for N 219 so the additional test pilot for N 219 look like to be used to fasten the certification process.

For KFX/IFX program, there is also one aerospace engineer from PTDI that has been prepared to be test pilot for KF21/IFX, he has to learn to be fighter pilot which then study in test pilot school in England.

Air Force personnel who are helping to test N219 plane. Look on the emblem, it is definately fighter test pilot.






Some of the N 219 test pilots







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325727561654022144
-------------------------------

Korean media previously said that several Indonesian Air Force pilot has been sent to South Korea to help the test flight phase.


----------



## Indos

Preparation process for first flight disclosed by KF-21 flight test pilot​20 views
May 28, 2022


----------



## Indos

*KF 21/IFX Tandem Version*







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529449542479155201

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Production facility in KAI Korea


----------



## Indos

In 22 June it is expected that Malaysian LCA acquisition program will be announced, the very likely candidate for selection is Korean T 50 Golden Eagle.






FA-50, Tejas and JF-17 For FLIT-LCA - Malaysian Defence







www.malaysiandefence.com





The selection will likely benefit KF21/IFX program. Indonesia beside provide some parts for KF21 program export sales, it is likely the country will be regional MRO facility for KF21 that will likely include future upgrade program as well (if the program is successful).

Malaysia will likely joint nations in SEA in using T50 Golden Eagle as their advanced trainer/LCA squadrons.

*Map of T50 Golden Eagle operators*














KAI T-50 Golden Eagle - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Indos

*From Korean FB *

KF-21 Boramae prototypes undergoing various ground tests at Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) facility in Sacheon prior to next month's maiden flight.

According to KAI, 95% of pre-flight ground tests have been completed. Total of 6 flyable prototype aircraft and 2 ground-testing models are undrgoing tests at KAI. The 6 flyable prototypes will conduct over 2,000 test flight sorties before KF-21 is declared operational.


Single and double seats prototypes


----------



## Indos

First flight is scheduled in July 2022


----------



## Indos

Closer look

Showing the stake holders :

Korean Government (ADD Korea and SK Airforce logos) : 60 % stake
KAI Korea (KAI Korea logo) : 20 % stake
Indonesia Government (Indonesia Defense Ministry logo) : 20 % stake


----------



## Indos




----------



## Kedikesenfare2

I would like to know why Indonesia has accepted the Korean offer and Turkey didn't.


----------



## Indos

Kedikesenfare2 said:


> I would like to know why Indonesia has accepted the Korean offer and Turkey didn't.



Erdogan wants the same stake like South Korea, so Turkish proposal is :

South Korea (40 %). Turkey (40%), Indonesia (20%) which is not accepted by South Korea.

The first country South Korea reaches to be included in KFX/IFX program is Indonesia. I still remember reading the newspaper in 2009 when the offer from South Korea comes, in that time SK delegation come to Indonesia and meet with our President, SBY. It didnt take long when Indonesia accepted the South Korean proposal, so the MOU is signed in 2009, the contract is signed in 2010, while the start of program development ( joint South Korea and Indonesia research is started in 2011).










In December 2012 the two design has been made, before KAI and Lockheed Martin join in 2015






More on what happen during the 2011-2014






Program KFX/IFX Dilanjutkan, Pemerintah Diminta Segera Memilih Desain


Angkasa Online - Majalah Aviasi dan Militer



web.archive.org


----------



## Kedikesenfare2

Indos said:


> Erdogan wants the same stake like South Korea, so Turkish proposal is :
> 
> South Korea (40 %). Turkey (40%), Indonesia (20%) which is not accepted by South Korea.
> 
> The first country South Korea reaches to be included in KFX/IFX program is Indonesia. I still remember reading the newspaper in 2009 when the offer from South Korea comes, in that time SK delegation come to Indonesia and meet with our President, SBY. It didnt take long when Indonesia accepted the South Korean proposal, so the MOU is signed in 2009, the contract is signed in 2010, while the start of program development ( joint South Korea and Indonesia research is started in 2011).
> 
> View attachment 859115
> 
> View attachment 859116
> 
> 
> In December 2012 the two design has been made, before KAI and Lockheed Martin join in 2015
> 
> View attachment 859117
> 
> 
> More on what happen during the 2011-2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Program KFX/IFX Dilanjutkan, Pemerintah Diminta Segera Memilih Desain
> 
> 
> Angkasa Online - Majalah Aviasi dan Militer
> 
> 
> 
> web.archive.org


Well, I knew something was fishy. I bet that today's Indonesia wouldn't agree with the terms for a second time.


----------



## Indos

Kedikesenfare2 said:


> Well, I knew something was fishy. I bet that today's Indonesia wouldn't agree with the terms for a second time.



What fishy ? Did you read my explanation ? Erdogan wants equal stake with South Korea, and because SK doesnt approve such idea, Turkey doesnt want to be part of the fighter developers


----------



## Kedikesenfare2

Indos said:


> What fishy ? Did you read my explanation ? Erdogan wants equal stake with South Korea, and because SK doesnt approve such idea, Turkey doesnt want to be part of the fighter developers


I translate:

Turkey wanted to be an equal partner.

South Korea on the other hand wanted to only share the burden but not the benefits. 

Indonesia is practically just a cashcow for them.


----------



## Indos

Kedikesenfare2 said:


> I translate:
> 
> Turkey wanted to be an equal partner.
> 
> South Korea on the other hand wanted to only share the burden but not the benefits.
> 
> Indonesia is practically just a cashcow for them.



*Equal partner in this regard is the same stake with South Korea, you can look on the older news if you dont believe it.*

What cashcow ? Look I know the program from the engineer that is involved, all of Indonesian engineers support the program.


----------



## Indos

I dont need to explain again and again the benefit Indonesia has on the program, basically that Turkey dude dont read this one :

1. Design experience
2. Some parts will be produced in Indonesia Aerospace for Indonesia/Korea/export market
3. Indonesian KF21 order will be assembled in Indonesia Aerospace
4. Composite material TOT that is also useful for other program
5. System integration will be more complex than transport one, so once again gaining huge experience and increase capabily
6. Maintenance market will be handled by Indonesia Aerospace for IFX and possibly for SEA market as well
7. Indonesian Aerospace can develop STEALTH wing man drone and it means huge market even within Indonesia market alone as one KF21 is planned to have 3 wingman drone accompanying them.
8. Possibly long production benefit for Indonesia Aerospace as even the plane is planned to be developed further into 6 generation fighter
9. Improving Indonesia Aerospace brand image and also the program can improve nation brand image that can benefit many business in Indonesia that wants to export high tech product or advanced service to overseas market
10. Indonesia Aerospace will get 1 prototype that can be used to develop Indonesian engineers capability and develop Indonesian version of KFX with possibly more local component

-------------------------------------------

*Regarding the fuselage part produced in Indonesia Aerospace*

In the KF-21/IFX project, the national defense industry involved is PT Dirgantara Indonesia. "As a result of initial discussions with South Korea, PT Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero) asked to be the sole supplier (50 percent) of wings, tails, and other parts or (pylons)," said the Public Relations Bureau of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.









KF-21 Proyek ”Pengubah Permainan”


Korea Selatan bersama Indonesia mengembangkan pesawat tempur yang kini dinamai KF-21 Boramae. Langkah itu dapat menjadi tonggak pencapaian menuju kemandirian.




www.kompas.id





-----------------------------------------------

*Regarding design experience*

Indonesia delays payment for S. Korea's fighter development project​*All News* 11:49 October 07, 2019

"Despite such a delay in payment, the Indonesian side has continued to send its researchers to South Korea to take part in the development process," Rep. Kim Joong-ro of the minor opposition Bareunmirae Party said during a parliamentary audit into the administration, voicing concern about technology leaks.

*As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.*









Indonesia delays payment for S. Korea's fighter development project | Yonhap News Agency


SEOUL, Oct. 7 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia is in arrears on its payment obligations for a joint p...




en.yna.co.kr





-----------------------------

February 6, 2014 (Angkasa/Space Magazine)

*KFX / IFX program continued , Government Asked to Immediately Selecting Design*







Korea was once considered Indonesia engineer do not understand about the design of a jet fighter. But the notion was quickly turned , when the Indonesian team describes the design and the various inputs. The Indonesian side also the one who finally managed to convince that the aircraft take-off weight of 50,000 pounds must .

Confirmation of the Parliament of South Korea on the resumption of the program KFX / IFX team warmly welcomed designers from Indonesia. They include asking both governments immediately call the engineers involved in preparing work that has been long overdue. They also want the governments of both countries to make sure one of the two designs that have been produced in the Technology Development phase for cultivation in the next phase .

"Program KFX / IFX is a multi - program years , costly, and involve various sectors and foreign partners. For that there must be a definite declaration on it goes. For Indonesia it is important to determine the financing schemes and their human resources planning, "*said Dr Rais Zain, M. Eng ,* *KFX / IFX Configuration Design Leader *for Angkasa , in late January.

"In the near future Indonesia will also work on the N219 and R - 80. We do not have enough engineers to work three programs, especially KFX / IFX will take place until the 2020s. The government is expected to call home engineers who are now working abroad to come help the regeneration process. Outside there are approximately 200 people . If half of it can be returned to the country, it is enough to help, " added Rais who is also a lecturer at the Faculty of Aerospace Engineering ITB, Bandung.

As reported by the national media, the confirmation of the continuation of the program of making front - liner Korean - Indonesian fighter jets received by the Ministry of Defense on January 3, 2014. Notice is further announced Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro told reporters, Wednesday, January 8, 2014, on the sidelines of Rapim Kemenhan in Jakarta. Explanations related to exposure delivered weapon system procurement plans in the Strategic Plan II, 2015-2019.

The Indonesian government hopes the project of making the 4.5 generation fighter jet could be done because it would be a referral program to remove the dependence of the transfer of technology from other countries. Besides KFX / IFX, Indonesia is also pursuing a program of making submarines , warships, propellants , rockets, and tank size medium. For submarines, Indonesia is also cooperating with the same country.

Superior to the Su - 35 Program, KFX / IFX was stopped temporarily by Korea's new leader Park Geun - Hye end of 2012 after reviewing the state financially in the country. *This prestigious project was worked on since the beginning of 2011, shortly after President Lee Myung - bak and President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono confirmed the bilateral cooperation in the defense field in Jakarta.* From the Technology Development Phase that has been completed, a team of scientists has completed a number of conical design that later became two.

The two designs is a model of the stealth fighter jet -winning twin-engine air superiority with horizontally - tails in the back, and the other one is with canards on the front. "Each has consequences different financing and partners. Thus , it must first be decided which one is selected. It is important that when followed, all parties are ready to do it , "said Rais Zain , whose day-to- day lecturer at the Faculty of Engineering, Aerospace Engineering,ITB, Bandung.

As stated Wamenhan Sjafrie, Korean parliament has prepared 20 million U.S. dollars (temporary , Indonesia : $ 5 million) to continue this program in 2015. At that time , the team will go to the Engineering Manufacturing Development Phase. In addition must have a high thrust engine with a power to be able to fight in the air, the aircraft must also have weapons stored in the internal weapons bay , the data - link capable of randomizing communications, advanced radar target voters, and anti - jamming device.

The prototype is expected to finish by the end of the Strategic Plan II . Even if there are things that need to be criticized , it is a matter of operation requirements are much more determined the Korean Air Force . This was inevitable because the Korean bear 80 percent of the funding, and the country actually have a real enemy. This program is targeted to spawn a jet fighter with performance equivalent or superior to the opponent fighter jets which are the Sukhoi Su - 35.

Prerequisites requirement dismissed the proposed counter designs by KAI ( Korean Aerospace Industrie) recently, which is intended to cut development costs. In the configuration ( see Space, December 2013 ), looks KFX type E is only one engine powered with weapons outside the radar sweep prone opponent.

*Angkasa examine admiration of ADD ( Agency for Defense Development, Defence Research and Development Agency of Korea ) submitted to the Indonesian engineer team. Initially, the team assumes Korea really had no idea about the design of Indonesian fighter jets.

However, the assumption was turned when Indonesian engineers began to describe the design and the various inputs to the design of Korea. The Indonesian side also who ultimately ensure that the aircraft must have a takeoff weight of 50,000 pounds.(A.Darmawan/Angkasa magazine).*






Program KFX/IFX Dilanjutkan, Pemerintah Diminta Segera Memilih Desain


Angkasa Online - Majalah Aviasi dan Militer



web.archive.org





See the year of 2012 ( Before KAI Korea and Lockheed Martin join the program in 2015)

*



*

Indonesian wind tunnel


----------



## Indos

23 APRIL 2021

KAI prepares smart factory for KF-21 fighter​by Jon Grevatt


Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) is planning to develop a new ‘smart factory’ to support the production of its new KF-21 Boramae fighter aircraft.

In a filing to the Korean stock exchange on 22 April, KAI said it will invest KRW98.5 billion (USD88 million) over the coming five years to set up a “smart manufacturing system based on 4th Industrial Revolution digital technologies” including artificial intelligence and big data analytics.

The smart factory, it said, will be utilised across several projects. One of the initial focus areas is expected to be the production of components and structures for the KF-21, a prototype of which KAI unveiled earlier in April under its Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) programme.





Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) have announced plans to set up a ‘smart manufacturing’ facility to support the production of the KF-21 fighter aircraft, which was unveiled earlier in April. (DAPA)

KAI also expects to integrate the facility into a larger automated production ecosystem within South Korea’s aerospace sector. KAI said it will provide assistance to suppliers in setting up similar processes.

The plant, KAI said, will be partly modelled on its ‘A350 factory’, which was opened in 2010 at KAI’s headquarters in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang, to support production on the Airbus jet airliner.

This facility features automated production lines and has been credited with reducing A350 aerostructure manufacturing timeframes by 66%.

KAI also said that the facility will support its efforts to enhance the competitiveness of its products in export markets.

Commenting on the new factory, a KAI official quoted by local media said, “We will maximise work efficiency by implementing an intelligent production system that combines digital and analysis tasks performed in areas such as production, process management, technology, purchasing, and quality control.”






KAI prepares smart factory for KF-21 fighter


Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) is planning to develop a new ‘smart factory’ to support the production of its new KF-21 Boramae fighter aircraft.



www.janes.com


----------



## Indos

*Maiden Flight preparation*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## silverox

Now the point of view of the new forces making cars is, I won't say it, it's an industry secret


----------



## Indos

Maiden flight

AlhamduliLLAH seems successful maiden flight


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

*KF-21 Fighter Jet Made in South Korea in Cooperation with Indonesia Successfully First Flight Test!*​





SEOUL, KOMPAS.TV - South Korea's domestically developed fighter jet in collaboration with Indonesia successfully carried out its first flight test, Tuesday (19/7/2022), South Korea's official Yonhap news agency reported.

The next-generation aircraft, developed by Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) in a project partially supported by Indonesia, is designed to be a cheaper and overt alternative to the US-made F-35, which South Korea relies on.

A prototype jet, dubbed KF-21, took off at 3:40 p.m. (13:40 Jakarta time) from the air force base in the city of Sacheon, and flew for about 30 minutes. The South Korean Defense Acquisition Program Administration said in a statement.

At the Air Force's 3rd Flying Training Squadron in Sacheon, about 300 kilometers south of Seoul, the fighter took off, signaling South Korea will join an elite club of seven nations that have been developing supersonic fighter jets locally.

The maiden flight under the 8.8 trillion won project comes as the country has been pushing to replace its aging fleet of F-4 and F-5 fighters with high-end jets. This is an increase in South Korean air power to counter North Korean attacks with nuclear and missile threats.

South Korea first envisioned the jet development project in November 2000, when then-President Kim Dae-jung expressed the country's hopes of becoming a manufacturer of advanced fighter aircraft by 2015 at a ceremony to launch the original KT-1 trainer.

The project took a small step in November 2002, when South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff made long-term plans to develop a high-end fighter that surpassed the KF-16 fighter and delivered about 120 units.

But skepticism is still rampant. South Korea's two state-run institutions, the Korea Institute of Defense Analysis and the Korea Development Institute, concluded in separate analyzes in 2003 and 2007, that the project was not feasible.

However, the project gained much-needed momentum in 2009, when another government commissioned study by Konkuk University concluded that the fighter aircraft development scheme was economically viable.

The government then continued with a preliminary research process from 2011-2012 and decided in 2013 a detailed plan for the fighter aircraft project, including the required operational capabilities and target deployment period.

As widely anticipated, the issue of securing key combat technologies remains a formidable challenge.

South Korea initially sought to secure key technologies for four critical pieces of equipment -- an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar system, an infrared search and tracking system (IRST), an electro-optical tracking pod (EO TGP), and a radio frequency (RF) jammer. -- from the United States (USA).

However, the US rejected the request in April 2015, forcing the South to focus on developing the technology needed at home.

Despite the technological uncertainty, the state-run Defense Acquisition Program Administration signed a fighter development contract with Korea Aerospace Industries Ltd. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft maker, in December 2015.

In the first phase of the project which cost 8.1 trillion won, Indonesia participated as a partner under an agreement to cover 20 percent of the amount.

After the first phase to develop the combat system as a whole by 2026, the second phase which cost 700 billion won lasts until 2028 to carry out weapons tests.

Initial skepticism over the project turned to optimism as local defense companies have successfully continued to develop the technology required for the four main pieces of equipment that form the core of the fighter's combat operations.

Hanwha Systems Co. is on track to develop an AESA radar system, with a prototype unveiled in August 2020, four years after the launch of the radar development effort.

The AESA system can detect and track multiple targets simultaneously and extensively, as the radio wave beams are electronically directed at points in different directions without moving the antenna.

Hanwha Systems is also responsible for developing the IRST and EO TGP. The IRST system is designed to detect and track objects emitting infrared radiation, while the EO TGP is designed to identify targets and direct precision munitions such as laser-guided bombs.

LIG Nex1 is working on developing the fighter's electronic warfare (EW) suite, including an RF jammer designed for radio signal interference.

The 4.5 generation fighters will be equipped with air-to-air missiles, such as the AIM-2000 by Germany-based Diehl and Meteor by MBDA Europe.

So far, five KF-21 prototypes have been launched for testing purposes with a sixth due out sometime this month. The prototype is slated to carry out a combined 2,000 sorties or more to complete the development of the fighter as a whole by 2026.

In addition to these testing procedures, the KF-21 project faces other obstacles, such as Indonesia's payment arrears.

In 2026-2028, KAI plans to produce the initial units of KF 21 Block I.









Jet Tempur KF-21 Bikinan Korea Selatan Kerja Sama dengan Indonesia Berhasil Uji Terbang Perdana!


Jet tempur yang dikembangkan di dalam negeri Korea Selatan bekerja sama dengan Indonesia berhasil uji terbang pertamanya hari Selasa (19/7/2022)




www.kompas.tv


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

South Korea's first homegrown fighter jet completes test flight​





UPDATED

JUL 19, 2022, 4:35 PM SGT

FacebookTwitter

SEOUL (REUTERS) - South Korea's domestically developed fighter jet successfully completed its first test flight on Tuesday (July 19), a defence agency said, amid a push to replace ageing military jets in the face of nuclear and missile threats from neighbouring North Korea.

The next-generation aircraft developed by Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) in a project partially backed by Indonesia is designed to be a cheaper, less stealthy alternative to the US-built F-35, on which South Korea relies.

A prototype of the jet, dubbed KF-21, took off at 3.40pm (2.40pm Singapore time) from an air force base in the south-eastern city of Sacheon, and flew for about 30 minutes, the Defence Acquisition Programme Administration said in a statement.

The new jet faces more testing until 2026, when mass production is set to begin.

South Korea unveiled the first prototype of the KF-21 in April last year, hailing the aircraft as the future backbone of its air force and a step towards greater military independence for the US ally in North Asia.

In 2014, South Korea and Indonesia agreed to jointly develop the jet in a project worth 8.1 trillion won (S$8.6 billion), with Jakarta agreeing to pay a fifth of the cost.

But in 2018 Indonesia sought to renegotiate the deal, to ease pressure on its foreign exchange reserves, and later offered to pay its share in the form of a barter.

The two countries agreed in November that Jakarta would keep its pledge to shoulder 20 per cent of the development cost, including in-kind payments for a third of its share, though they have yet to formally revise the contract, an official said.









South Korea's first homegrown fighter jet completes test flight


Seoul wants to replace its ageing military jets in the face of threats from neighbouring North Korea. Read more at straitstimes.com.




www.straitstimes.com


----------



## Indos

South Korea’s homegrown KF-21 fighter takes to the skies for first time​





BY GABRIEL DOMINGUEZ​
STAFF WRITER

Jul 20, 2022

South Korea’s homegrown KF-21 Boramae fighter aircraft conducted its maiden flight Tuesday, only 6½ years after the start of the development program, in a milestone for the country’s defense industry amid efforts to make the nation more self-reliant.

The aircraft, the first of six flyable prototypes to have been built by Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI), took to the skies from an air force base near KAI’s headquarters in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province, and flew for about 30 minutes.

The twin-engined aircraft bore the flags of both South Korea and Indonesia — the only foreign partner in the program. The KF-21 was also seen carrying four mock-ups of the Meteor long-range, air-to-air missile under the fuselage. First rolled out in April 2021, the aircraft underwent ground tests earlier this year.

The test flight, which Seoul described as “a new leap in domestic aviation technology,” has brought South Korea closer to joining a small club of nations that have developed their own advanced supersonic fighter jets. KAI is planning to put the six KF-21 prototypes — including two twin-seat aircraft — through a combined 2,000 flight tests over the next four years.

The KF-21, which is capable of conducting various kinds of missions, is being developed by Seoul in two stages to replace the air force’s aging fleet of F-4E Phantom II and F-5E/F Tiger combat aircraft. The first phase of development, which has been budgeted at 8.1 trillion won ($6.17 billion), is set to be completed by 2026, while the second phase, costing 700 billion won, is expected to run through 2028 and focus on weapon tests.

Mass production of the KF-21 is scheduled to start in 2026 with the “Block 1” aircraft, which will be equipped with limited air-to-ground weapons and air-to-air weapons. From 2028, the “Block 2” variant will be capable of performing full air-to-air and air-to-ground combat missions. The air force is planning to acquire 40 of these fighter jets by 2028 and another 80 by 2032.





he KF-21 was also seen carrying four mock-ups of the Meteor long-range, air-to-air missile under the fuselage. | DAPA

South Korea already fields a fleet of 40 Lockheed Martin F-35A fighters and is aiming to acquire 20 more of these “fifth-generation” stealth aircraft from the United States by 2028 under a 3.94 trillion won program slated to begin next year.

The less stealthy “4.5-generation” KF-21 is seen by Seoul as a means to not only modernize its aging fighter fleet and complement the new F-35As, but also to strengthen the local defense industry and potentially boost defense exports.

The aircraft will be equipped with advanced sensors, avionics and weapon systems, most of which — including the “active electronically scanned array radar,” radio frequency jammer, electro-optical tracking pod and infrared search and track system — are being developed locally.

Seoul had initially sought to secure key technologies for these systems from the United States, but Washington declined the request in April 2015, Yonhap News Agency reported, resulting in South Korea developing these systems domestically.

The KF-21 — which is expected to have a top speed of Mach 1.8, not far from twice the speed of sound — will feature three “hardpoints” under each wing for weapons and/or external fuel tanks, and will also be capable of carrying four missiles under the fuselage, according to KAI.

In its 2021-2025 Mid-Term Defense Plan, the South Korean defense ministry confirmed that the country would begin developing long-range air-to-surface and air-launched anti-ship guided missiles for integration with the KF-21.









South Korea’s homegrown KF-21 fighter takes to the skies for first time


First rolled out in April 2021, the twin-engined aircraft bore the flags of both South Korea and Indonesia — the only foreign partner in the program.




www.japantimes.co.jp


----------



## Indos

Leaders of Korea, Indonesia affirm their strategic partnership​





Korean President Yoon Suk-yeol, left, shakes hands with Indonesian President Joko Widodo, at the presidential office in Yongsan District, central Seoul Thursday afternoon. [JOINT PRESS CORPS]


Thursday

July 28, 2022


President Yoon Suk-yeol stressed the strategic importance of Southeast Asia to Korea at a summit with Indonesian President Joko Widodo in Seoul Thursday. 

"In an era in which economy is security and security is the economy, economic and security cooperation between the two countries, such as stabilizing the supply chain, is very important," Yoon said at the start of bilateral talks at the presidential office in Yongsan, central Seoul.

In response, Widodo said, "I am confident that the relationship between our two countries will be further strengthened under the leadership of President Yoon." 

The two sides agreed to strengthen cooperation in economic security, defense, infrastructure and eco-friendly investments. 

This was Yoon's first summit with a leader from one of the 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean).

Widodo last visited Korea in November 2019. He is the second foreign leader to visit Seoul since Yoon's inauguration in May, after U.S. President Joe Biden.

The Indonesian president, popularly known as Jokowi, was accompanied by his wife Iriana Joko Widodo. They arrived at Seoul Air Base in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Wednesday evening for a two-day visit. Earlier this week, Widodo kicked off a three-country East Asia tour which previously took him to China and Japan. 

On Thursday morning, Widodo met with Korean business leaders including Hyundai Motor Group Executive Chair Euisun Chung and Posco CEO Kim Hag-dong. 

Widodo arrived at the presidential office in Yongsan around 4:20 p.m. 

He signed a guestbook with the message, "Indonesia is the right partner for ROK [Republic of Korea]."

The leaders held bilateral talks for nearly two hours. They watched the signing of a memorandum of cooperation for the promotion of sustainable green investment and then held a joint press conference. 

*"Indonesia is a leading country in Asean, and the only Southeast Asian country that Korea has a special strategic partnership with," said Yoon at the press conference.
*
He added that Korea and Indonesia are countries in the Indo-Pacific region that "share the goal of peace and common prosperity" and that "maintaining a norms-based international order serves the interests of both countries." 

"I conveyed to President Widodo the strategic importance of Asean and our intentions to strengthen cooperation with Asean," said Yoon. "Based on our unwavering support for Asean centrality, we will harmonize our Indo-Pacific strategy with the Asean perspective."

The two sides agreed to strengthen economic security and supply chain stability, and bolster trade and investment, especially in high-tech industries such as electric vehicles, batteries and petrochemicals.

Yoon said the two leaders "agreed to build strategic solidarity in high-tech industries such as electric vehicles (EVs) and batteries by strengthening economic and security cooperation between the two countries," including the stabilization of supply chains for key minerals. Yoon noted that Indonesia is a country rich in minerals like nickel, important for Korean tech companies.

*Describing defense as a key pillar of bilateral relations, Yoon said the two countries jointly celebrated the successful first test flight of the KF-21 advanced supersonic jet fighter earlier this month. Indonesia refers to the project as IF-X.

"The two countries reaffirmed their intentions to continue to cooperate so that the joint development of next-generation fighters can proceed smoothly until the very end," said Yoon. *

He didn't elaborate further on if there had been discussion on Indonesia's overdue payments for the joint KF-21 project, also dubbed the Boramae.

*Yoon's presidential office said in a statement, "The two countries are accelerating defense cooperation by jointly developing the next-generation KF-21 fighters." 
*




Korean President Yoon Suk-yeol, right, holds a joint press conference with Indonesian President Joko Widodo, after their bilateral summit at the presidential office in Yongsan District, central Seoul Thursday. [JOINT PRESS CORPS]

The two countries agreed to work together under the Indo-Pacific Economic Framework (IPEF), a U.S.-led comprehensive economic framework viewed as a check on Chinese influence in the region. 

They also shared the view that the entry into force of the Korea-Indonesia Comprehensive Economic Partnership (CEPA) and the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) — a mega free trade agreement that includes China, Japan, Korea and the 10 Asean nations — contributed to substantive cooperation between the two countries.

Yoon also said Korea will support Indonesia for the successful hosting of the G20 summit in Bali in November.

The leaders shared concerns about North Korea's nuclear and missile threats and agreed on the need for a unified response from the international community.

They agreed to work together on humanitarian issues such as the restoration of democracy in Myanmar and the Ukrainian crisis. 

They further agreed to cooperate on Indonesia's capital relocation project, which will move its capital from Jakarta to East Kalimantan. This could provide Korean companies opportunities to participate in infrastructure and housing construction projects. 

Indonesia accounts for 41 percent of Asean's population with some 270 million people and 35 percent of the regional bloc's total gross domestic product (GDP).

The two countries established diplomatic relations in 1973 and celebrate the 50th anniversary of bilateral ties next year. 

Yoon and Widodo attended an official banquet in the evening, joined by their wives, government officials and business leaders. 


BY SARAH KIM [kim.sarah@joongang.co.kr]









Leaders of Korea, Indonesia affirm their strategic partnership


President Yoon Suk-yeol stressed the strategic importance of Southeast Asia to Korea at a summit with Indonesian President Joko Widodo in Seoul Thursday.



koreajoongangdaily.joins.com


----------



## Indos

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552625678385680384


----------



## Indos

S. Korea, Indonesia pledge to deepen economic, security cooperation​





South Korean President Yoon Suk-yeol with his Indonesian counterpart Joko Widodo in Seoul on July 28, 2022. PHOTO: EPA-EFE

SINGAPORE - The leaders of South Korea and Indonesia have agreed to strengthen economic and security cooperation in areas such as the development of electric vehicles and batteries, smart city systems and even a fighter plane project, as well as in the supply of key minerals.

The two countries also agreed to communicate closely and deepen cooperation with Asean, according to South Korean President Yoon Suk-yeol.

“Asean is our core partner in achieving peace and prosperity in the Indo-Pacific region,” Mr Yoon said on Thursday (July 28) at a press conference in Seoul, held jointly with visiting Indonesian President Joko Widodo.

“Based on our firm support for Asean centrality, we will strike a balance between our Indo-Pacific strategy and Asean perspectives.”

Indonesia is the only Asean nation to have a “special strategic partnership” with South Korea.

A bilateral agreement was signed in late 2017 covering four areas of cooperation: defence and foreign affairs; bilateral trade and infrastructure development; people-to-people exchanges; and regional and global cooperation.

Mr Widodo on Thursday voiced certainty that “our partnership will be even stronger in the future” under the leadership of President Yoon, who took office in May this year.


“We welcome the increasing trend of trade and we agree to continue to open market access, overcome trade barriers and promote superior products from both countries,” he said.

South Korea is the seventh largest importer of Indonesian goods and ranks sixth as an exporter of goods to Indonesia. Trade between both nations reached US$18.4 billion (S$25.4 billion) last year, up from US$15.65 billion in 2019.

Mr Widodo said he “specifically encouraged” South Korean investment in Indonesia’s developing electric car ecosystem, in areas such as batteries.

Mr Yoon noted that Indonesia is a major exporter of nickel - an important component in batteries and other technology products that South Korea produces.

He expressed his gratitude towards Indonesia for helping his country overcome a severe urea shortage last year, noting that “this is an example of how important bilateral cooperation is”.
Indonesia agreed to provide an annual 120,000 tonnes of urea, used to cut emissions in factories and diesel trucks, after China cut exports of the chemical to South Korea.

Mr Yoon and Mr Widodo also agreed to work more closely in the United States-led Indo-Pacific Economic Framework for Prosperity.

The two sides also agreed to expand an agreement signed in 2019 to collaborate on a US$32 billion project to move Indonesia’s capital from the over-congested Jakarta to the new city of Nusantara on Borneo island.

Mr Widodo said construction and water supply are already under way under the initial partnership.

Mr Yoon said the new agreement “laid the groundwork for our companies to actively contribute to building the new Indonesian capital’s infrastructure, electronic government and smart city systems”.

*On the defence front, the two leaders celebrated the first successful test flight of a jointly-developed fighter jet named KF-21.*

They also reaffirmed their commitment to close cooperation until the end of the project, although Indonesia has yet to pay its share of the cost of the project, citing economic difficulties.
*South Korea’s presidential office said the two sides have agreed to accelerate working level talks on payment issues.*

Mr Widodo arrived in Seoul on Wednesday for the last leg of his East Asian tour, which also took him to China and Japan.

Besides the summit with Mr Yoon, he also met Hyundai Motor Group’s executive chairman Chung Eui-sun to discuss cooperation in electric cars.

In a separate meeting with the heads of major South Korean conglomerates such as LG Corp, CJ Group and Lotte Chemical, Mr Widodo urged closer collaboration to develop Indonesia’s economy and voiced hope that South Korea can become one of Indonesia’s top three investors - up from No. 6.









S. Korea, Indonesia pledge to deepen economic, security cooperation


Indonesia is relocating its capital from heavily congested Jakarta to the new city of Nusantara on Borneo island. Read more at straitstimes.com.




www.straitstimes.com


----------



## Indos

Reinforcing Cooperation in Defense Industry and Economic Security – S. Korea-Indonesia Summit​


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

27 JULY 2022

Poland to buy FA-50 combat aircraft from South Korea​by Gareth Jennings


Poland is to acquire 48 FA-50 combat aircraft from South Korea, with deliveries to commence in 2023. (KAI)

Poland is to augment its existing fixed-wing combat aviation forces with the Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) FA-50 Fighting Eagle aircraft to be procured from South Korea.

Mariusz Błaszczak, the deputy prime minister and minister of national defence, approved the plan as part of a wider bilateral defence procurement agreement between the two countries announced on 27 July. The agreement will see the Polish Air Force (Inspektorat Sił Powietrznych: ISP) augment its existing 48 Lockheed Martin F-16C/D Block 50+ Fighting Falcons with *48 FA-50 aircraft to equip three front-line squadrons.*

“We have signed framework agreements that will allow us to strengthen the Polish [armed forces]. We don't have time, we have to arm the Polish [armed forces],” Błaszczak said. “It is about the principle of deterrence so that the aggressor does not dare to threaten Poland.”

In line with this urgent requirement, the first 12 FA-50 aircraft will be delivered in mid-2023, with the remainder to follow according to an undisclosed timeline. “The aircraft will be configured in accordance with the precise requirements presented by the Polish Air Force ([including identification, friend-or-foe] IFF NATO), [and] will have increased operational capabilities [of] the Block 20 standard,” the government said.

The FA-50 is the operational version of the T-50 Golden Eagle advanced jet trainer. Although billed as a ‘light' fighter, the FA-50 has a potent air-to-air and air-to-surface capability. According to_ Janes All the World's Aircraft: In Service











Poland to buy FA-50 combat aircraft from South Korea


Poland is to augment its existing fixed-wing combat aviation forces with the Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) FA-50 Fighting Eagle aircraft to be procured from South...



www.janes.com




_


----------



## FuturePAF

Indos said:


> Yup I think it is a bit copy of F 22 and the design is still legal since Lockheed Martin is also in the program. Semi Stealth for block 1, and full stealth for block 2 and 3 (based on plan). I think Malaysia is going to be interested with this plane if the program can be realized.


Will the engines remain American sourced, or is there a plan for fully local sourced engines?



Indos said:


> 27 JULY 2022
> 
> Poland to buy FA-50 combat aircraft from South Korea​by Gareth Jennings
> 
> 
> Poland is to acquire 48 FA-50 combat aircraft from South Korea, with deliveries to commence in 2023. (KAI)
> 
> Poland is to augment its existing fixed-wing combat aviation forces with the Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) FA-50 Fighting Eagle aircraft to be procured from South Korea.
> 
> Mariusz Błaszczak, the deputy prime minister and minister of national defence, approved the plan as part of a wider bilateral defence procurement agreement between the two countries announced on 27 July. The agreement will see the Polish Air Force (Inspektorat Sił Powietrznych: ISP) augment its existing 48 Lockheed Martin F-16C/D Block 50+ Fighting Falcons with *48 FA-50 aircraft to equip three front-line squadrons.*
> 
> “We have signed framework agreements that will allow us to strengthen the Polish [armed forces]. We don't have time, we have to arm the Polish [armed forces],” Błaszczak said. “It is about the principle of deterrence so that the aggressor does not dare to threaten Poland.”
> 
> In line with this urgent requirement, the first 12 FA-50 aircraft will be delivered in mid-2023, with the remainder to follow according to an undisclosed timeline. “The aircraft will be configured in accordance with the precise requirements presented by the Polish Air Force ([including identification, friend-or-foe] IFF NATO), [and] will have increased operational capabilities [of] the Block 20 standard,” the government said.
> 
> The FA-50 is the operational version of the T-50 Golden Eagle advanced jet trainer. Although billed as a ‘light' fighter, the FA-50 has a potent air-to-air and air-to-surface capability. According to_ Janes All the World's Aircraft: In Service
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poland to buy FA-50 combat aircraft from South Korea
> 
> 
> Poland is to augment its existing fixed-wing combat aviation forces with the Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) FA-50 Fighting Eagle aircraft to be procured from South...
> 
> 
> 
> www.janes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


Along with the tanks for the polish army, South Korea is making great strides in arms sales to Poland.


----------



## Indos

FuturePAF said:


> Will the engines remain American sourced, or is there a plan for fully local sourced engines?
> 
> 
> Along with the tanks for the polish army, South Korea is making great strides in arms sales to Poland.



Of course, but South Korea will do assembling and making some parts in F 414 engine. The plan to develop larger plane (most probably as big as F22) will likely use another American engine. This plane design is already STEALTHY enough even if both Korea and Indonesia develop it further into 6 generation fighter.

They have made engine for their UAV and cruise missile, something that Turkey hasnt been able to do so.

Their bigger version of KF21 is regarded as 5.5 generation, plan to be better than F 35. 

Yup, South Korea is very good in advanced technology and those East Asian countries, China, Japan, and South Korea are competing each other. This is why when Jokowi visited one of them, Jokowi should also visit the others.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## FuturePAF

Indos said:


> Of course, but South Korea will do assembling and making some parts in F 414 engine. The plan to develop larger plane (most probably as big as F22) will likely use another American engine. This plane design is already STEALTHY enough even if both Korea and Indonesia develop it further into 6 generation fighter.
> 
> They have made engine for their UAV and cruise missile, something that Turkey hasnt been able to do so.
> 
> Their bigger version of KF21 is regarded as 5.5 generation, plan to be better than F 35.
> 
> Yup, South Korea is very good in advanced technology and those East Asian countries, China, Japan, and South Korea are competing each other. This is why when Jokowi visited one of them, Jokowi should also visit the others.


So you don’t see Korea developing a completely independent engine from the Americans?


----------



## Indos

FuturePAF said:


> So you don’t see Korea developing a completely independent engine from the Americans?



They have made independent engine ( turbojet or turbofan / I am not sure which one ) for their Wingman drone program that has already flown. I think it is a matter of time before they can make engine for fighter jet, but due to pressuring situation, they will likely keep using US engine until 2045 for fighter jet, as for UCAV and cruise missile they have already had their indigenous engine. 

Just check Hanwa, their turbofan division is quite large in civilian sector already

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

PAF eyes SoKor's 'Boramae' multi-role, supersonic aircraft​

By Priam Nepomuceno
August 16, 2022, 10:18 am



*MANILA* – The Philippine Air Force (PAF) is eyeing the South Korean-made KF-21 "Boramae", which is now undergoing development and flight testing, as one of the possible contenders for its multi-role fighter (MRF) project.

PAF spokesperson Col. Maynard Mariano made this remark when asked if the KF-21, whose airframe is described as "stealthier than any fourth-generation fighter" is being considered for the MRF project.

"It is a possibility given that the MRF (project) has not been funded yet, the KF-21 can be a contender for the MRF (project)," he added in a message to the Philippine News Agency (PNA) Tuesday.

Mariano said the PAF is closely monitoring the developments of the KF-21 whose prototype had its first flight last July 19.

"The PAF is monitoring this, we cannot close our options when there are new systems that may be able to compete with other systems and which may fit into our requirement for defense. In this day and age, the prototyping stage for any system can be done faster due to the available technology, and we might see it fielded soon," Mariano said.

The PAF's MRF project requires at least 12 units of fourth-generation fighters capable of integrating with existing radar systems and has a range of at least 250 nautical miles.

If funded, this project is worth around PHP61 billion.

Mariano also expects the KF-21 to become a viable combat aircraft like the Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) FA-50PHs, which the PAF has around 12 in service.

"Just like when we got the FA-50s, there were a lot of negative comments against it, but we proved to the critics that the system can be made combat ready and was actually proven in combat (in the Battle for Marawi)," he added.

The deliveries of the FA-50PH aircraft in the country started in 2015 and ended in 2017. The contract was worth around PHP18 billion.

The KF-21, which is also produced by KAI, is a South Korean fighter aircraft development program, with Indonesian involvement, with the goal of producing an advanced multi-role fighter for South Korea and Indonesia.

The program is led by the South Korean government, which has 60 percent of the program's shares.

Indonesia took a 20 percent stake in the program in 2010, while the remaining 20 are held by private partners including KAI.

South Korea is expected to field the KF-21 by 2026. Its primary intended users are the Republic of Korea Air Force and the Indonesian Air Force.

The KF-21 is South Korea's second domestic fighter jet development program, following the FA-50. *(PNA)*

_








PAF eyes SoKor's 'Boramae' multi-role, supersonic aircraft


MANILA – The Philippine Air Force (PAF) is eyeing the South Korean-made KF-21 "Boramae", which is now undergoing development and flight testing, as one of the possible contenders for its multi-role fighter (MRF) project.PAF spokesperson Col. Maynard Mariano made this remark when asked if...




www.pna.gov.ph




_


----------



## Indos

*Naval Version*





*



*


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Deino

Finally with the gears up ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573621053288751104

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

*Photo taken Today, First Fligh Ceremony, 28 September 2022*


----------



## Indos

Indonesia-South Korea Bilateral Relations Are Getting Stronger and More Solid​





06-10-2022 /
*Speaker of the House of Representatives of the Republic of Indonesia Dr. (H.C.) Puan Maharani* is pleased with the stronger and solid Indonesia-South Korea bilateral relations that have been going on since 1968. The reason is, since November 2017, through the "_Republic of Korea-Republic of Indonesia Joint Vision Statement for Co-Prosperity and Peace_", Indonesia's bilateral relations and cooperation with South Korea have entered a new chapter.

Not only that, the two country leaders agreed to upgrade the status of the partnership to a special strategic partnership and continued with _the agreement of the Plan of Action for the Implementation of the Special Strategic Partnership_ (2021-2025). "With a focus on cooperation on four areas, namely: defense and foreign relations, bilateral trade and infrastructure development, people-to-people exchanges, and regional and global cooperation," said Puan in a written statement received by the *Parliamentary* team, Thursday (6/10/2022)

*In addition, the House of Representatives of the Republic of Indonesia appreciates the strengthening of cooperation between Indonesia and South Korea in the field of defense and security through The First RI-ROK Foreign and Defense Senior Officials Meeting. The cooperation is in the form of the defense equipment project of the KF-21 Boramae fighter aircraft and submarines.
*
"This includes capacity building for Indonesia's defense human resources," he continued. As for bilateral trade and infrastructure development, I appreciate the progress in several aspects, namely the IK-CEPA economic agreement to increase the pace of Indonesia's exports to South Korea, strategic investment cooperation in the electric car and battery industry and investment in the development of IKN reaching USD6.37 billion with 58 thousand workers.

"In 2020, it is a sign of the increasing synergy between Indonesia and South Korea with the signing of the first cooperation in the field of digital economy and _Start-ups_ of the Republic of Indonesia-South Korea in the era of the G20 Presidency of Indonesia," explained the PDI-Perjuangan Faction Politician.

Puan believes that the cooperation relationship between Indonesia and South Korea will be stronger, especially in the economic sector where the increasing trend of bilateral trade reached USD18 billion in 2021, an increase quite sharply from the previous year of USD13 billion. Moreover, the synergy between Indonesia and South Korea is increasingly solid and productive. He also encouraged the concrete implementation of the _Indonesia-Korea Economic Partnership Agreement_.

"I invite the House of Representatives of South Korea to jointly support and encourage the two Governments to continue to develop bilateral cooperation for the common prosperity and welfare of the two countries," concluded Puan. (p/aha)









Hubungan Bilateral Indonesia-Korea Selatan Semakin Kuat dan Solid


mber 2017, melalui Republic of Korea-Republic of Indonesia Joint Vision Statement for Co-Prosperity and Peace", hubungan dan kerja sama bilateral Indonesia dengan Korea Selatan memasuki babak baru. Tak hanya itu, Kedua pemimpin negara sepakat untuk meningkatkan status kemitraan menjadi...




www.dpr.go.id


----------



## Deino

Congrats ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590949794666926082

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Indos

*Second prototype maiden flight*


----------



## Indos

Third prototype is shown in recent South Korea Airshow


----------



## Indos

*Second prototype*


----------



## Indos

SK President visited KAI Aerospace






*Yoon inspects KF-21 fighter jet*
President Yoon Suk-yeok (L) listens to explanations on the third prototype of South Korea's homegrown fighter jet, the KF-21 Boramae, during a visit to Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) in Sacheon, 301 kilometers south of Seoul, on Nov. 24, 2022. (Yonhap)
(END)

14:54 November 24, 2022









Yoon inspects KF-21 fighter jet | Yonhap News Agency


President Yoon Suk-yeok (L) listens to explanations on the third prototype of South Korea&...




en.yna.co.kr

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Prototype 5 for Indonesia (Indonesian Aerospace will get this prototype as soon as KF21/IFX program gets type certificate in 2026 inshaAllah). Indonesian test pilots have already been in Korea and expected they will test the aircraft in Korea until 2026. 










Final Assembly facility in KAI

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos




----------



## PDF

Turkish firm to aid in mass production of S. Korea's fighter jet​ 

by Daily Sabah with Reuters​ 
 



 
  


 
​ 
Turkish technology company SDT Space and Defense Technologies Inc. will continue to contribute to South Korea's domestically developed fighter jet during the mass production process after already providing a simulation link system to the project during the prototype stage.
The company's general manager, Ömer Korkut, told Anadolu Agency (AA) that the firm made one of its most important exports by providing the in-arm simulation data link system for South Korea's fifth generation fighter jet, the KF-21, and stated that they delivered 19 air units and a ground station during the prototype phase of the project.
Korkut stated that they recently received another ground station order that they will deliver in April 2023.
For their next project, the company is working as the subcontractor of the LIG Nex1, Korkut said, noting that the decision to include the company in the project during the mass production process was recently revealed and it is very good news.
He said they expect 120 more product orders from 2024.

“It is important for us to be able to provide subsystems for a fifth-generation combat aircraft, as well as to a country that develops technology such as South Korea,” he said.
The next-generation aircraft is developed by Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) in a project partially backed by Indonesia and is designed to be a cheaper, less stealthy alternative to the United States-built F-35, on which South Korea relies.
It completed its first test flight in July amid a push to replace aging military jets in the face of nuclear and missile threats from neighboring North Korea.
South Korea unveiled the prototype of the KF-21 in April last year, hailing the aircraft as the future backbone of its air force and a step towards greater military independence for the U.S. ally in North Asia. The mass production is set to begin in 2026.








Turkish firm to aid in mass production of S. Korea's fighter jet


Turkish technology company SDT Space and Defense Technologies Inc. will continue to contribute to South Korea's domestically developed fighter jet...




www.dailysabah.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## MarveL

Kok thread Indonesia hilang di sticky yah? kemaren ada sub economy dan indo militer, hilang semua tinggal KFX?


----------



## Indos

MarveL said:


> Kok thread Indonesia hilang di sticky yah? kemaren ada sub economy dan indo militer, hilang semua tinggal KFX?


Webmaster move them to Indonesia Defense Forum. He made Indonesia Defense Forum which is an individual section on par with the other Forum like BD Defense Forum, China Defense Forum etc

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indos

Polandia is interested on KF21/IFX program and has already ordered 48 FA50 from Korea with the 3 billion USD deal.


----------



## Indos

7 months ago, KF21 AESA radar testing






HANWA KF21 AESA radar


----------



## Indos

Top 10 most advanced fighter jets in 2023​BYAEROTIME TEAM
2022-12-27
8 MINUTE READ


10. Sukhoi Su-35S
9. Dassault Rafale
8. Eurofighter Typhoon
7. Boeing F-15EX Eagle II
6. Shenyang FC-31 Gyrfalcon
5. Sukhoi Su-57
4. KAI KF-21 Boramae
3. Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
2. Chengdu J-20 Mighty Dragon
1. Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning
​4. KAI KF-21 Boramae​Designed in South Korea, the KF-21 is the newest jet on this list. While KAI designates it as 4.5 generation, it has many features compatible with 5th generation jets, such as stealthy design and some technologies used on the F-35.

The first KF-21 conducted its maiden flight only in July 2022, and several more prototypes are currently in production and undergoing testing at KAI. The company aims to start delivering these jets to the military in 2026.

The Boramae is also set to receive additional improvements in the near future. Further variants, with internal weapons bays and improved sensors, will make it a true 5th generation fighter jet. So, this jet could feature it even higher in future versions of this list.









Top 10 most advanced fighter jets in 2023 - AeroTime


Everybody knows fighter jets are incredibly powerful aircraft. But which are the most advanced? AeroTime investigates.




www.aerotime.aero


----------



## Indos

*AlhamduLILLAH*

Third prototype successfully made its maiden flight


----------



## Indos

*Third prototype KF21/IFX





*


----------



## Indos




----------



## Indos

*KF 21 Third prototype*






*Indonesian wind tunnel*

This I believe C 103 design developed by ADD Korea, Indonesian Aerospace, and Institute Technology Bandung (Indonesia state own university) between 2011-2012. After Korea Aerospace and Lockheed Martin joined the program since 2016, development is concentrated in KAI facilities.











*2012 released picture*


----------

