# Type 052D DDG News & Discussions



## cnleio

new pic of 052D class DDG








P.S suggest to set this as special sticky thread for China new 052D DDG.

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## cirr

The above is D3 of JNS&#12290;

D4 is under construction at the same shipyard where the above pic was taken&#12290;

D5-D8 is said to be the work of DLS&#12290;

D9&#12289;D10&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#65311;

055&#65311;

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## cirr

D1 and D2&#65306;


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## cnleio




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## Akasa

cirr said:


> The above is D3 of JNS&#12290;
> 
> D4 is under construction at the same shipyard where the above pic was taken&#12290;
> 
> D5-D8 is said to be the work of DLS&#12290;
> 
> D9&#12289;D10&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#65311;
> 
> 055&#65311;



D4 is supposed to be in construction in parallel with the 055.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cirr said:


> The above is D3 of JNS&#12290;
> 
> D4 is under construction at the same shipyard where the above pic was taken&#12290;
> 
> D5-D8 is said to be the work of DLS&#12290;
> 
> D9&#12289;D10&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#65311;
> 
> 055&#65311;



Are D9 and D10 going to be built in the 3rd shipyard?


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## Penguin

cirr said:


> D1 and D2&#65306;



Note the missile launcher on the right ship.... FL3000N


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## hk299792458

2 new pictures of D#03.













Penguin said:


> Note the missile launcher on the right ship.... FL3000N



FL-3000N is a reference for exportation of the whole system (Launcher + Missiles). The internal use one called *HHQ-10* (?? Missile part only).

The official reference of the launcher is called *710.SJ01-*X (with X = number of tube), so far we saw 4 different version - 8 tubes (*Type 056*), 15 tubes, 18 tubes (*Type 001* _16 Liaoning_) and 24 tubes (*Type 052D*).

Here the launcher installed on Type 056, it's called *710.SJ01-8*






Henri K.

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## hk299792458

Some pictures to show how could be a *Type 052D* destroyer, just for reference.


























*PJ-38* and the 2 x 32 VLS launchers of Type 052D.
















Henri K.

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## rcrmj

SinoSoldier said:


> D4 is supposed to be in construction in parallel with the 055.



no no, for all the infos we can gather from internet, we wont be seeing 055 until 2016 the earliest !

055 is a true monster, some of their sub systems are not mature yet, besides 12 052Ds were ordered, it will take two ship yards at least 2 years to finish all of them

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## hk299792458

Part of the specification of the VLS of *Type 052D*, according to the official chinese military standard *GJB-5860-2006*.









































For example we learnt from this document that this VLS has at least 3 different kinds of standard launch modules - 9000mm of long, 7000mm and 3300mm. Each "_structure_" of VLS can hold 8 vertical launcher/seperator (_we can see that in the front of Type 052D there are 4 "structures", and at the stern as well_), and each vertical launcher can hold up to 4 missiles.

For those who are interested on this new universel VLS system, you can also have a look on an another official military standard *GJB-1414A-2005*.

Henri K.

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## hk299792458

I'm still waiting for the last update of Google Map, but the satellite picture on March 3rd shown 2 *Type 052D* destroyers and 3 *Type 052C* destroyers. We know that things have changed since then...
















Last year in November some pictures have been taken by a spotter from a plane flying over the Jianan shipyard, where we can see a Type 052C and a Type 052D side-by-side -


























Henri K.

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## cnleio

3rd 052D DDG building

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## aliaselin

rcrmj said:


> no no, for all the infos we can gather from internet, we wont be seeing 055 until 2016 the earliest !
> 
> 055 is a true monster, some of their sub systems are not mature yet, besides 12 052Ds were ordered, it will take two ship yards at least 2 years to finish all of them


According to POP3, all of the sub systems for type 055 have been mature


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## cnleio

aliaselin said:


> According to POP3, all of the sub systems for type 055 have been mature


Good news ! But i wonder how type055 ship will look like ?


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## cnleio

PLA Navy 052D class DDG model, just for reference

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## cnleio

052D building new pix












The last pic is a new 052C DDG building


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## cnleio

China 052D DDG CG

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## AUSTERLITZ

64 VLS including ASCM or that seperate?Very nice ship.anyway.Congratz.


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## hk299792458

AUSTERLITZ said:


> 64 VLS including ASCM or that seperate?Very nice ship.anyway.Congratz.



As there is no any more place available on the ship to place ASCM launcher (_the old place on Type 052C is now used for a 32 cells VLS_), I suggest yes but this needs to be confirmed.

Henri K.


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## AUSTERLITZ

hk299792458 said:


> As there is no any more place available on the ship to place ASCM launcher (_the old place on Type 052C is now used for a 32 cells VLS_), I suggest yes but this needs to be confirmed.
> 
> Henri K.



Why is there no space,kolkata class with same displacement has 64 VLS for Anti air missiles plus seperate 16 VLS for ASCM.I think something is being overlooked.They must have extra missile VLS.


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## rcrmj

aliaselin said:


> According to POP3, all of the sub systems for type 055 have been mature



there is still no updates or 'exposure' on new VSL, HQ-9B, HQ-16B and new anti-ship missiles, and also no signs of new C4ISR, battle control and long range early warring radar systems are getting ready yet

until 052D is fully operational then we can safely say 055 is read to launch, just like it took 8 years to launch 052D after the first 052C was built


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## rcrmj

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Why is there no space,kolkata class with same displacement has 64 VLS for Anti air missiles plus seperate 16 VLS for ASCM.I think something is being overlooked.They must have extra missile VLS.



the new VSL used on 052D is hot-cold, multi-purpose and quarter-packed launching system, they have integrated air-to-air, air-to-surface, cruise missile, anti-sub missile and ABM all into that VSL system,

unlike the one used on Kolkata which is just can contain one type of missile, so the VSL on 052D is the most advanced and mission flexible system for now, and the only comparable one is the MK57 of U.S that will be built in Zumwalt-class

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## hk299792458

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Why is there no space,kolkata class with same displacement has 64 VLS for Anti air missiles plus seperate 16 VLS for ASCM.I think something is being overlooked.They must have extra missile VLS.



I was talking about the place for inclined ASCM launcher. As I don't see any more place for inclined ASCM launcher, I suppose that all ASCM are integrated into the VLS systems. But this has to be confirmed.

And, if that's the case, there is still a difference comparing to the latest indian destroyer. For Type 052D, the VLS system is compatible to all types of munition (_it seems to be the case anyway according to the specification seen upper from GJB-5860-2006_), from ASCM, ASROC to SAM. Whereas on P15A the SAM has it's own VLS system, and the ASCM an another one, so two VLS systems are differents.



rcrmj said:


> there is still no updates or 'exposure' on new VSL, HQ-9B, HQ-16B and new anti-ship missiles, and also no signs of new C4ISR, battle control and long range early warring radar systems are getting ready yet
> 
> until 052D is fully operational then we can safely say 055 is read to launch, just like it took 8 years to launch 052D after the first 052C was built



Wrong reference for HQ-16.

The true versionning of HQ-16 is as follows -

The basic version is the naval one, called *HQ-16* (Or more precisely *H/AJK-16*).

From this basic version 2 branches are developed, one continues for naval usage, one for ground version -

Naval version : HQ-16 ==> *HQ-16G*

Ground version : (from HQ-16) *HQ-16A* ==> *HQ-16B*

So if you talk about the new naval variant of HQ-16, you should talk about HQ-16G.

Hope this helps.

Henri K.


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## cnleio

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Why is there no space,kolkata class with same displacement has 64 VLS for Anti air missiles plus seperate 16 VLS for ASCM.I think something is being overlooked.They must have extra missile VLS.



052D/052C: 155m x 19m
Kolkata: 163m x 17.4m

052D back 32x VLS take the place of 052C's 2x4 anti-ship missile launchers. that answer must wait for 052D serving in PLAN.

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## hk299792458

rcrmj said:


> the new VSL used on 052D is hot-cold, multi-purpose and quarter-packed launching system, they have integrated air-to-air, air-to-surface, cruise missile, anti-sub missile and ABM all into that VSL system,
> 
> unlike the one used on Kolkata which is just can contain one type of missile, so the VSL on 052D is the most advanced and mission flexible system for now, and the only comparable one is the MK57 of U.S that will be built in Zumwalt-class



Euh.... ABM... are you sure that HQ-26 can be held on the new universal VLS system, HQ-26 is a 3-stage missile...?

I wonder if a DH-10 / CJ-10 is not too large (in terms of diameter) for this new VLS system as well.

Well, wait & see.

An another "error", is not the VLS who is hot/cold but the launcher module. We can only say that the new VLS system can hold both cold launcher and hot launcher (CCL = Concentric Canister Launcher).

For this last point around CCL hot launcher, this explains why in the new VLS system we can't find the common exhaust tunnel. Each launcher has it's own circular exhaust tunnel. I have a lot of chinese R&D documents on it if someone wants to learn more.

Henri K.

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## cnleio

052D's 130mm gun


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## AUSTERLITZ

rcrmj said:


> the new VSL used on 052D is hot-cold, multi-purpose and quarter-packed launching system, they have integrated air-to-air, air-to-surface, cruise missile, anti-sub missile and ABM all into that VSL system,
> 
> unlike the one used on Kolkata which is just can contain one type of missile, so the VSL on 052D is the most advanced and mission flexible system for now, and the only comparable one is the MK57 of U.S that will be built in Zumwalt-class



But what's the point in having ultra new VLS if it has lesser missiles?
Only explanation i can think of is modularity?With same VLS it can carry any mix,optimized for particular mission at hand?


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## Akasa

AUSTERLITZ said:


> 64 VLS including ASCM or that seperate?Very nice ship.anyway.Congratz.



The VLS is an universal one, so the ASCM would be integrated with it. Anyways it frees up for more VLS units.

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## ChineseTiger1986

rcrmj said:


> there is still no updates or 'exposure' on new VSL, HQ-9B, HQ-16B and new anti-ship missiles, and also no signs of new C4ISR, battle control and long range early warring radar systems are getting ready yet
> 
> until 052D is fully operational then we can safely say 055 is read to launch, just like it took 8 years to launch 052D after the first 052C was built



It took so much time to launch the new Type 052Cs and Type 052Ds after the two original Type 052Cs, because the JNCX shipyard got relocated from the Huangpu River to Yangzi River's estuary.


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## rcrmj

AUSTERLITZ said:


> But what's the point in having ultra new VLS if it has lesser missiles?
> Only explanation i can think of is modularity?With same VLS it can carry any mix,optimized for particular mission at hand?



the new VSL can be quarter-packed, which means one cell can contain 4 HQ-16B medium range anti-air missiles and 4 anti-sub missiles, the MK-57 from U.S navy is the same which is significantly larger than MK-41 they are using,

and Zumwalt-class has 12,000 ton displacement but only 80 cells which much less than 9000 ton Arleigh Burke class with 122 cells

mission flexibility is very important for $billion worth battleships, it is just not realistic to spend hundreds of millions to build a ship which can only carry one or two types of missile``

for example, if the mission for 052D is to provide first layer missile/air defence for the AC groups, it can carry 64 HQ-9B which has 200KM plus range, if for second layer 052D can carry like 16 HQ-9B and 192 units of HQ-16B (75KM effective range), and so on for anti-ship, anti-sub or land attack missions

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## rcrmj

hk299792458 said:


> Euh.... ABM... are you sure that HQ-26 can be held on the new universal VLS system, HQ-26 is a 3-stage missile...?
> 
> I wonder if a DH-10 / CJ-10 is not too large (in terms of diameter) for this new VLS system as well.
> 
> Well, wait & see.
> 
> An another "error", is not the VLS who is hot/cold but the launcher module. We can only say that the new VLS system can hold both cold launcher and hot launcher (CCL = Concentric Canister Launcher).
> 
> For this last point around CCL hot launcher, this explains why in the new VLS system we can't find the common exhaust tunnel. Each launcher has it's own circular exhaust tunnel. I have a lot of chinese R&D documents on it if someone wants to learn more.
> 
> Henri K.



this new VLS has three variants, the launch module width are all the same 800mm by 800mm, but the length is 3 meters, 7 meters (likely the one on 052D) and 11 meters (for HQ-26, CJ-10 and big ones) respectively


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## AUSTERLITZ

rcrmj said:


> the new VSL can be quarter-packed, which means one cell can contain 4 HQ-16B medium range anti-air missiles and 4 anti-sub missiles, the MK-57 from U.S navy is the same which is significantly larger than MK-41 they are using,
> 
> and Zumwalt-class has 12,000 ton displacement but only 80 cells which much less than 9000 ton Arleigh Burke class with 122 cells
> 
> mission flexibility is very important for $billion worth battleships, it is just not realistic to spend hundreds of millions to build a ship which can only carry one or two types of missile``
> 
> for example, if the mission for 052D is to provide first layer missile/air defence for the AC groups, it can carry 64 HQ-9B which has 200KM plus range, if for second layer 052D can carry like 16 HQ-9B and 192 units of HQ-16B (75KM effective range), and so on for anti-ship, anti-sub or land attack missions



Excellent clarification.Thanks.

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## aliaselin

rcrmj said:


> there is still no updates or 'exposure' on new VSL, HQ-9B, HQ-16B and new anti-ship missiles, and also no signs of new C4ISR, battle control and long range early warring radar systems are getting ready yet
> 
> until 052D is fully operational then we can safely say 055 is read to launch, just like it took 8 years to launch 052D after the first 052C was built



This is only your thought of 055, but not PLAN's


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## cirr

hk299792458 said:


> I was talking about the place for inclined ASCM launcher. As I don't see any more place for inclined ASCM launcher, I suppose that all ASCM are integrated into the VLS systems. But this has to be confirmed.
> 
> And, if that's the case, there is still a difference comparing to the latest indian destroyer. For Type 052D, the VLS system is compatible to all types of munition (_it seems to be the case anyway according to the specification seen upper from GJB-5860-2006_), from ASCM, ASROC to SAM. Whereas on P15A the SAM has it's own VLS system, and the ASCM an another one, so two VLS systems are differents.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong reference for HQ-16.
> 
> The true versionning of HQ-16 is as follows -
> 
> The basic version is the naval one, called *HQ-16* (Or more precisely *H/AJK-16*).
> 
> From this basic version 2 branches are developed, one continues for naval usage, one for ground version -
> 
> Naval version : HQ-16 ==> *HQ-16G*
> 
> Ground version : (from HQ-16) *HQ-16A* ==> *HQ-16B*
> 
> So if you talk about the new naval variant of HQ-16, you should talk about HQ-16G.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Henri K.



Yes&#65292;I concur with you on the above&#12290;

Also it is confirmative that vertically launched YJ-18A is the standard issue for anti-ship&#12289;land attack roles&#12290;


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## cirr

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Excellent clarification.Thanks.



The new VLS has 3 variants of different sizes&#65292;making it suitable for installaion onboard warships of almost any displacements&#12290;

Also not to forget that the new system was developed with the up coming Type 55 DDG in mind&#12290;

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## ChineseTiger1986

rcrmj said:


> the new VSL can be quarter-packed, which means one cell can contain 4 HQ-16B medium range anti-air missiles and 4 anti-sub missiles, the MK-57 from U.S navy is the same which is significantly larger than MK-41 they are using,
> 
> *and Zumwalt-class has 12,000 ton displacement but only 80 cells which much less than 9000 ton Arleigh Burke class with 122 cells*
> 
> mission flexibility is very important for $billion worth battleships, it is just not realistic to spend hundreds of millions to build a ship which can only carry one or two types of missile``
> 
> for example, if the mission for 052D is to provide first layer missile/air defence for the AC groups, it can carry 64 HQ-9B which has 200KM plus range, if for second layer 052D can carry like 16 HQ-9B and 192 units of HQ-16B (75KM effective range), and so on for anti-ship, anti-sub or land attack missions



Only Tico is 122 cells, while Burke I is 90 cells and Burke II/IIA are 96 cell.


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## Genesis

looking at the comments here, while the Type 52D is not in a class of its own, it can certainly hold its own against the Americans in a battle. It would make the Americans think twice about a battle in Chinese waters.

The balance of power is shifting decidedly in our favor. 

However, now more than ever I sort of doubt the type 55 being ready before 2018 if not 2020, being that we have no even inducted the type 52D, and have no real tests of this in a combat situation. Perhaps I am wrong?

Also, with the latest on carrier group including the 52C and not the D, is that until induction or does the 52D have a different role? Like going solo or just not in a carrier group until later.


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## cnleio

052C vs 052D DDG


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## klub

IF I may say so, the type 52D is a great increment over the type 52C. But unfortunately it shows a lack of vision on part of China. Most navies are evolving their doctrines to suit themselves. 

A small case study :

Russia - 
A navy now known as the graveyard of the Soviets has started to reinvent themselves. RN currently relies on it's 25000 ton behemoth of the Kirov class to deliver firepower while The old soviet stock of destroyers and frigates act as a support group. Of late it has started a top heavy - medium - low program of shipbuilding. Russian frigates and corvettes come second only to Western standards. The Russian corvettes are suprisingly well armed for a 2000 ton class.

New Additions -

# Kirov Class resurrected
#5000 - 6000 ton frigates
#2000 -3000 ton corvettes
#Nuclear submarines
#Upgraded variants of Kilo submarines
#Aircraft carrier ( refitted)

The above arrangement is best for a close to shore to medium range naval engagement. Something Russia will follow suit in line with the American pivot.

America-

With a monstrous defence budget of nearly 900bn $ this giant needs no announcement. Having a battle tonnage larger than the next 11 navies it is set for the 21st century. Where Zumwalt class destroyers of no.s 3 may provide an anchor for future battle groups , a Flight III Arleigh Burke will incorporate advances from the DDG - 1000 like stealth, 155mm guns and a possibly new generation of Aegis not to mention a new nuclear submarine fleet. It's LCS ships act as anti submarine warfare / minesweeper and amphibious ships with passive anti ship abilities. It's only job - protect the big guns.

New Additions -

#DDG - 1000 X 3
#Arleigh Burke Flt III
#Nuclear submarines
#LCS
#Aircraft Carriers

India -

Walia brothers of Mumbai had built the first modern warship ship for the British Navy int he 1800s. Since then he shipbuilding industry had declined until a new renaissance heralded by JVs and economic liberalization in the 1990s. Traditionally India's fleet was directed at Pakistan to stem adventurism and was instrumental in 1971 in deterring American interference with Soviet help in the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War. Since the 2000s, focus has shifted to indigenisation of warship and more global presence in the IOR. It is estimated that India will order upto 100 warships alongside China by 2032.

New Additions -

#Aircraft Carriers X 3
#Destroyers ( 8000 tons present in P15A)
#FrigateS(7000 tons P17A)
#Corvettes(3000 tons)
#Nuclear Submarines
#Diesel stealth submarines

China -

The dragons rise heralds a new geo strategic scenario in the SCS. With additions that modernize it's existing fleets and replace the soviet legacy. China's global reach cannot be doubted. However a resurgent America and Japanese naval programmes complicate it. India too is a distant but visible presence here. China must evolve a doctrine of passive activism in rder to create a viable deterrent.

New additions -

#Lianoning AC
#(7200 Tons) Destroyers
#(5000 tons) frigate
#(1500 tons) corvette
#(12000 tons) nuclear submarines
#Diesel submarines
#Stealth missile boats

IF I may say so, the type 52D is a great increment over the type 52C. But unfortunately it shows a lack of vision on part of China. Most navies are evolving their doctrines to suit themselves. 

A small case study :

Russia - 
A navy now known as the graveyard of the Soviets has started to reinvent themselves. RN currently relies on it's 25000 ton behemoth of the Kirov class to deliver firepower while The old soviet stock of destroyers and frigates act as a support group. Of late it has started a top heavy - medium - low program of shipbuilding. Russian frigates and corvettes come second only to Western standards. The Russian corvettes are suprisingly well armed for a 2000 ton class.

New Additions -

# Kirov Class resurrected
#5000 - 6000 ton frigates
#2000 -3000 ton corvettes
#Nuclear submarines
#Upgraded variants of Kilo submarines
#Aircraft carrier ( refitted)

The above arrangement is best for a close to shore to medium range naval engagement. Something Russia will follow suit in line with the American pivot.

America-

With a monstrous defence budget of nearly 900bn $ this giant needs no announcement. Having a battle tonnage larger than the next 11 navies it is set for the 21st century. Where Zumwalt class destroyers of no.s 3 may provide an anchor for future battle groups , a Flight III Arleigh Burke will incorporate advances from the DDG - 1000 like stealth, 155mm guns and a possibly new generation of Aegis not to mention a new nuclear submarine fleet. It's LCS ships act as anti submarine warfare / minesweeper and amphibious ships with passive anti ship abilities. It's only job - protect the big guns.

New Additions -

#DDG - 1000 X 3
#Arleigh Burke Flt III
#Nuclear submarines
#LCS
#Aircraft Carriers

India -

Walia brothers of Mumbai had built the first modern warship ship for the British Navy int he 1800s. Since then he shipbuilding industry had declined until a new renaissance heralded by JVs and economic liberalization in the 1990s. Traditionally India's fleet was directed at Pakistan to stem adventurism and was instrumental in 1971 in deterring American interference with Soviet help in the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War. Since the 2000s, focus has shifted to indigenisation of warship and more global presence in the IOR. It is estimated that India will order upto 100 warships alongside China by 2032.

New Additions -

#Aircraft Carriers X 3
#Destroyers ( 8000 tons present in P15A)
#FrigateS(7000 tons P17A)
#Corvettes(3000 tons)
#Nuclear Submarines
#Diesel stealth submarines

China -

The dragons rise heralds a new geo strategic scenario in the SCS. With additions that modernize it's existing fleets and replace the soviet legacy. China's global reach cannot be doubted. However a resurgent America and Japanese naval programmes complicate it. India too is a distant but visible presence here. China must evolve a doctrine of passive activism in rder to create a viable deterrent.

New additions -

#Lianoning AC
#(7200 Tons) Destroyers
#(5000 tons) frigate
#(1500 tons) corvette
#(12000 tons) nuclear submarines
#Diesel submarines
#Stealth missile boats


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## cnleio

What i know, 2013-2015 PLAN will own surface warships include
N? x 055 DDG (10,000ton)
10 x 052C/D DDG (6000ton)
20+ x 054A frigate (4000ton)
30+ x 056 corvette (1500ton)


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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> What i know, 2013-2015 PLAN will own surface warships include
> N? x 055 DDG (10,000ton)
> 10 x 052C/D DDG (6000ton)
> 20+ x 054A frigate (4000ton)
> 30+ x 056 corvette (1500ton)



The Type 055 is 12000 tons, while the Type 052D is more than 7000 tons, since many CDers actually got confused with MW/KW/shp.

Akizuki got a COGAG system of the total output of 64000 shp, while the Type 052D got a total output of 2 x 28MW + 2 x 6MW, which converts as 91800 shp, so the Type 052D still outputs more than the Akizuki class despite it uses a CODAG system.

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## hk299792458

*YJ-18A* and *HHQ-9B* ?






Henri K.


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## hk299792458

On one of the *Type 909* testbed boats, 891, we can find the Type 346A AESA and the new universal VLS system of *Type 052D* destroyers...

This picture has been taken more than one year ago.






Henri K.

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## rcrmj

aliaselin said:


> This is only your thought of 055, but not PLAN's



the state of development of 055 is all but speculation, as it is Chinese defence tradition, like the j-20 and j-31 etc,

so at the moment all I have said are stuffs we can gather from reputed Chinese forums nothing more than that...



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Only Tico is 122 cells, while Burke I is 90 cells and Burke II/IIA are 96 cell.



ur right, my mistake, anyway tico is just over 9000 tons

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## ChineseTiger1986

rcrmj said:


> the state of development of 055 is all but speculation, as it is Chinese defence tradition, like the j-20 and j-31 etc,
> 
> so at the moment all I have said are stuffs we can gather from reputed Chinese forums nothing more than that...
> 
> 
> 
> ur right, my mistake, anyway tico is just over 9000 tons



Tico - 9800 tons
ABIIA - 9200 tons
ABII - 8500 tons
ABI - 8400 tons


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## cirr

klub said:


> Actually bad misconception, Kolkata class is to be inducted in January 2014. It's already in sea trials. Weighing 8000 short tons and carrying more VLS tubes and a Tata/BEL EMCCA Aegis system it makes a great match to Type 52D.
> 
> 2014 we'll see the first Arihant in commision and see also another one launched, with the hulls ready and infrastructure too we'll see these beauties in commision all of em by 2018. That's not including a second Akula and 3 moe follow on Arihants.
> 
> By 2018 as you say we'll receive the P15B and P17B s being churned out. We'll have 2 carriers and you're still stuck with making the Lianoning operational. You're best bet is 40000 - 60000 ton helo - carriers by then. Also regarding an IN and PLAN slug fest you guys operate Romeo class subs in no.s 22 and further variants of it. Effectively we can say just 35 of your diesel subs are of same era as IN our oldest being a 1986 build.
> 
> Same applies for your frigates and old dleet, meaning your fleet numbers will remain more or less same. We on the other hand are expanding.



In sea trials&#65311;Do you have pics showing it is actually in sea trials&#65311;

The best estimate is that the lead ship won't get induction before 2018.

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## Type 052D

cirr said:


> In sea trials&#65311;Do you have pics showing it is actually in sea trials&#65311;
> 
> The best estimate is that the lead ship won't get induction before 2018.



It's will be before they will have white servants, that's for sure. On topic: How many Type-052D will be needed in an typical PLAN CBG and will the Type-055 Cruiser play an more substantial role in fleet defence?

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## Slavery

cirr said:


> In sea trials&#65311;Do you have pics showing it is actually in sea trials&#65311;
> 
> The best estimate is that the lead ship won't get induction before 2018.



Yup, sea trials in their dreams 

Take everything any Indian says with a pinch of salt. They were supposed to put a man into space before 2015 and its not even close. I don't even need to tell about the LCA....what's it been 30 years?

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## cirr

klub said:


> A few type 52DD?  Not derailing here but thats a good laugh. The type 52DD doesn't even have a AEGIS system. We have a TaTa BEL EMCCA system. The Kolkata class are in sea trials. Do a google search, Go on. Now there is torpedo integration going on. Arihant went critical in june. We'll float IAC one in august 15.
> 
> BTW USA and China are in 2 leagues. It has a tonnage larger than next 11 navies.
> 
> BTW how's lianoning , does it have a operation aerial combat complement?
> 
> Cheers.



Ever heard of &#8220;the Star of the Sea&#8221; system&#65311;

Your ignorance about China in general and the PLAN in particular knows no bounds&#12290;

Here is a pic of two DDGs that are equipped with the Chinese equivalent of &#8220;AEGIS&#8221;&#65306;







As for the Liaoning&#65292;it will soon have a full complement of J-15s and J-15Ss&#65292;designed by and made in China&#12290;What do you have&#65311;Russian designed and made Mig-29Ks&#65311;Which bit of the CV is Indian&#65311;Where are your indigenous efforts&#65311;

Has the reactor in Arihant gone critical&#65311; This so-called Crown of IN is the biggest joke in the world's submarine family&#12290;Shameful really&#12290;

What&#8216;s your opinion of the UFOs spotted by the great great IA in the sky over the LAC area of Sino-Indian border&#65311;

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## Beast

klub said:


> Chinese trolling? Really cause it's as bad as how your economy looks now. Anyways thank you for your time. If you can make it do google arihant , kolkata destroyer , vikramaditya ac and navy black panthers.



Ask your India to look after your economy first before talk about China. Rupee value is falling like hell. Fancy you talk about our economy. Don't forget we got 3 trillion reserve. India got nothing. Our military modernisation will continue the next five years no matter what while India one will halt.

As for your INS Kolkata class is still an empty shell. What sea trial? Are you dreaming? Prove it with photo. I challenge you.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> Ask your India to look after your economy first before talk about China. Rupee value is falling like hell. Fancy you talk about our economy. Don't forget we got 3 trillion reserve. India got nothing. Our military modernisation will continue not the next five years no matter what while India one will halt.
> 
> As for your INS Kolkata class is still an empty shell. What sea trial? Are you dreaming? Prove it with photo. I challenge you.



Even Kolkata does commission in 2018, it will face the Type 055 AKA the Arleigh Burke Flight III on steroid, so Kolkata is not going to compete with China's destroyers.

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## danger007

Beast said:


> Their INS Kolkata still looks like this ugly shape and they claim its going to be in service by 2014 and in sea trial now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bunch of dreamer..



yes you are right... Unlike floating casino( So AC carrier),we didn't arrange pink color light setting on the Kolkata class destroyer ........


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> Their INS Kolkata still looks like this ugly shape and they claim its going to be in service by 2014 and in sea trial now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bunch of dreamer..



Initially, they were intented to compete with the Type 052C, now the Type 052C is done and will not be produced anymore, but the INS Kolkata is still not finished as a newborn.

It is going to face the Type 055A in the near future even it can be commissioned at the soonest.

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## Beast

danger007 said:


> yes you are right... Unlike floating casino( So AC carrier),we didn't arrange pink color light setting on the Kolkata class destroyer ........


I challenge you Indian for photo of INS Kolkata destroyer going sea trial and you all troll still cant post anything?  

Want me to post photo of Type052C firing HQ-9 200km range SAM to spite you?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Type 052D 91800 shp CODAG
Type 052C 81000 shp CODAG
Burke 108000 shp COGAG
Tico 81000 shp COGAG
Akizuki 64000 shp COGAG

The Type 052D will be the pinnacle evolution of the DDG with the CODAG propulsion, it is only lesser than Burke, so can't wait to see the mighty Type 055A as China's first DDG with the COGAG propulsion.

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## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Type 052D 91800 shp CODAG
> Type 052C 81000 shp CODAG
> Burke/Tico 108000 shp COGAG
> Akizuki 64000 shp COGAG
> 
> The Type 052D will be the pinnacle evolution of the DDG with the CODAG propulsion, it is only lesser than Burke and Tico, so can't wait to see the mighty Type 055A as China's first DDG with the COGAG propulsion.



When PLAN Already commission 12 of Type055 cruiser. INS Kolkata will still in this crap shape.






Then the Indian troll will still talk about their INS Kolkata destroyer will be more superior than any Chinese warship with French crap, Israel crap and every crap sub system they can import from.

Serious, no joke!

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> When PLAN Already commission 12 of Type055 cruiser. INS Kolkata will still in this crap shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the Indian troll will still talk about their INS Kolkata destroyer will be more superior than any Chinese warship with French crap, Israel crap and every crap sub system they can import from.
> 
> Serious, no joke!



Do you think the Akizuki is overrated? I can't believe many CDers are claiming this toy is superior to the Type 052C/D.

Because it uses a COGAG propulsion system, but look it is propulsion is weak compared to both Type 052C/D, meanwhile its so-called AESA band radar is a joke compared to the Type 052C, let alone the Type 052D.

The Type 052D can wipe down the inferior Japanese/Korean Aegis without a sweat.

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## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you think the Akizuki is overrated? I can't believe many CDers are claiming this toy is superior to the Type 052C/D.
> 
> Because it uses a COGAG propulsion system, but look it is propulsion is weak compared to both Type 052C/D, meanwhile its so-called AESA band radar is a joke compared to the Type 052C, let alone the Type 052D.
> 
> The Type 052D can wipe down the inferior Japanese/Korean Aegis without a sweat.



Basically the weak point will be the hull. As it using many new system on a small hull. The weakest point will be ASW as it can carry only one chopper.

I will rate them equal, Japan warship has many strong defense system but they lack offensive weapon. Their most powerful anti-ship missile armed is only Harpoon III which max range will be 180km. No LACM.

While PLAN warship will have no such worry. Even the Type052C armed with Eight C-602 crusie missile with 400km range to attack warship or land targets.

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## tanlixiang28776

The akizuki class is closer to a frigate compared to a destroyer. 32 cell vls certainly does not put it on par with actual destroyers. The only part that comes close is the 127 main gun that Koreans and Japanese navy's like to put on everything apparently.\

Wouldn't put too much trust on radars that small






on a 5000 ton ship 

compared these monsters on a 7000-8000 ton ship






In Capability the akizuki is somewhere between the 054 class frigate and 052C class destroyer which makes sense as that's where its tonnage puts it at.

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## tanlixiang28776

On the Subject between Chinese and Indian destroyer construction. I'm not going to argue which is better as any one can look up technical details for themselves and see what they like.

Instead I will point out the indisputable timeframes of the construction projects.

During 2003 China already had finished construction of the 2 type 052C destroyers.

India starts construction of the Kolkata class destroyer.

Today China has 6 type 052C destroyers in service and 4 type 052D destroyers in service or construction.4 more are on order as well. Type 055 construction is speculated to begin this year. In the past 3 years alone China has launched 6 destroyers. This is a rate of 2 per year.

India has yet to commission the Kolkata class destroyer and is speculated to finish in 2014. With its record that is no certainty.

China's rate of production is still expanding at a huge rate.

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## Beast

tanlixiang28776 said:


> On the Subject between Chinese and Indian destroyer construction. I'm not going to argue which is better as any one can look up technical details for themselves and see what they like.
> 
> Instead I will point out the indisputable timeframes of the construction projects.
> 
> During 2003 China already had finished construction of the 2 type 052C destroyers.
> 
> India starts construction of the Kolkata class destroyer.
> 
> Today China has 6 type 052C destroyers in service and 4 type 052D destroyers in service or construction. Type 055 construction is speculated to begin this year. In the past 3 years alone China has launched 6 destroyers. This is a rate of 2 per year.
> 
> India has yet to commission the Kolkata class destroyer and is speculated to finish in 2014. With its record that is no certainty.
> 
> China's rate of production is still expanding at a huge rate.



The speculation of INS Kolkata to finish in 2014 is rubbish. It is still in the crap shape photo which I posted earlier. No way it will make it to commission in 2014. The Indian always too ambition and bought so many different countries subsystem in which they have no technology to integrate them. Until now, they still have no idea how they are going to complete the destroyer. The hull will just left there to rot.

They just make up a false commission date to delay any backlash from the public. Their attitude is "Wait and see how"..

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## cnleio

tanlixiang28776 said:


> The akizuki class is closer to a frigate compared to a destroyer. 32 cell vls certainly does not put it on par with actual destroyers. The only part that comes close is the 127 main gun that Koreans and Japanese navy's like to put on everything apparently.\
> 
> Wouldn't put too much trust on radars that small
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on a 5000 ton ship
> 
> compared these monsters on a 7000-8000 ton ship
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Capability the akizuki is somewhere between the 054 class frigate and 052C class destroyer which makes sense as that's where its tonnage puts it at.



Well if China warship to compare with Japan akizuki class, it must be future 054B class frigate (small phased array radar frigate).

Future 054B class frigate CG

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## tanlixiang28776

danger007 said:


> lol we know chinese capability to make speculated J-31,16,xx, etc... look who is calling me troll... Idiots always start dick measurements... the thread is about 52D DDG... see how how many hair c--t talking about Kolkata class...



Hilarious as those two you mentioned have photographic and video evidence backing them up. The only capability we have is that we make stuff and you talk about making stuff

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> Well if China warship to compare with Japan akizuki class, it must be future 054B class frigate (small phased array radar frigate).
> 
> Future 054B class frigate CG



That's why the CD forum is going downhill, the quality of their newbie posters is now astonishingly bad.

They are arguing how Akizuki is superior to the Type 052D, these mofos can't even distinguish the difference between the small/big AESA radar and the units of MW/KW/shp.


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## saumyasupratik

cnleio said:


> Well if China warship to compare with Japan akizuki class, it must be future 054B class frigate (small phased array radar frigate).
> 
> Future 054B class frigate CG



Are you sure these frigates in the range of 5000 tonnes with a length of 134-144m would be able to fit the long range search radar in the class of SMART-L. Even the French with their dedicated FREMM FREDA can't fit the S-1850M even though their hull is approximately 10m longer than the Type 54A on which I suppose the Type 54B would be based on or is it a new hull?


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## AUSTERLITZ

Beast said:


> The speculation of INS Kolkata to finish in 2014 is rubbish. It is still in the crap shape photo which I posted earlier. No way it will make it to commission in 2014. The Indian always too ambition and bought so many different countries subsystem in which they have no technology to integrate them. Until now, they still have no idea how they are going to complete the destroyer. The hull will just left there to rot.
> 
> They just make up a false commission date to delay any backlash from the public. Their attitude is "Wait and see how"..



Now ur just trolling.INS kolkata has already completed sea trials.2014 date was pushed back from 2013 due to a small problem detected in trilas.INS kochi to undergo sea trials late this yr.Its not that we don't have other destroyers.And our new shivalik class 6200 frigates are destroyer class.


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## Beast

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Now ur just trolling.INS kolkata has already completed sea trials.2014 date was pushed back from 2013 due to a small problem detected in trilas.INS kochi to undergo sea trials late this yr.Its not that we don't have other destroyers.And our new shivalik class 6200 frigates are destroyer class.



Troll is from you. Where is the photo of the sea trial? Indian just like to lie 

Beside Kolkata class destroyer, all other INS lack long range air defense for your carrier. Your CARRIER out at sea will be sitting duck against any air threat.

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## Oldman1

Beast said:


> Basically the weak point will be the hull. As it using many new system on a small hull. The weakest point will be ASW as it can carry only one chopper.
> 
> I will rate them equal, Japan warship has many strong defense system but they lack offensive weapon. Their most powerful anti-ship missile armed is only Harpoon III which max range will be 180km. No LACM.
> 
> While PLAN warship will have no such worry. Even the Type052C armed with Eight C-602 crusie missile with 400km range to attack warship or land targets.



Japan is planning to get their hands on cruise missiles once they revised the Article 9.


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## tanlixiang28776

For a country like India not to announce something like commissioning a destroyer is ridiculous when they publish stuff like this 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/266357-iaf-chief-accepts-2nd-indian-c-17-today.html

You publish the smallest stuff and can't publish something like that lol?

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## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> Japan is planning to get their hands on cruise missiles once they revised the Article 9.



American will stop it. If Japan anyhow revise this article. It will bring South Korea, Russia and china to united against her. American despite is ally of Japan, she is also wary of her past. Putting Japan under her control and make her dependent is always US strategy. If you let Japan revise the article, soon she will go another step and make nuclear bomb. 

If that is the case, US excuse of unlawful nuclear armed like NK and Iran will not be justify. This is something US would not want to see. US still has a massive forces in Okinawa. This force while guarding against China. Is also reminder to Japan leader to obey US military command.


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## Beast

tanlixiang28776 said:


> For a country like India not to announce something like commissioning a destroyer is ridiculous when they publish stuff like this
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/266357-iaf-chief-accepts-2nd-indian-c-17-today.html
> 
> You publish the smallest stuff and can't publish something like that lol?



Precisely, indian just love to lie and brag. Totally shameless. They is no such thing of INS Kolkata on sea trial. It's still in shambled shape in shipyard. Those indian troll are making a fool of themselves.

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## AUSTERLITZ

Beast said:


> Troll is from you. Where is the photo of the sea trial? Indian just like to lie
> 
> Beside Kolkata class destroyer, all other INS lack long range air defense for your carrier. Your CARRIER out at sea will be sitting duck against any air threat.



Barak 8 is coming with kolkata and viraat will be retired soon.Kolkata and vikrmaditya are joining fleet within a difference of months.And IN fleet is hardly defenceless,shtil-1 and barak-1 are excellent sams.Fleet defence will be provided by barak-8 and barak-8 ER.
Photo of sea trial was not released,but this is news i got from friends in IDF and blogs...the reason induction was delayed was a minor problem in sea trials.Ur talking as if PLAN s-300 rif copy is something epic,that system has low engagement angle meaning it can't really engage sea skimmers effectively,and while it has a huge range against aircraft its range is paltry 30-40km at best against incoming cruise missiles.

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## Beast

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Barak 8 is coming with kolkata and viraat will be retired soon.Kolkata and vikrmaditya are joining fleet within a difference of months.And IN fleet is hardly defenceless,shtil-1 and barak-1 are excellent sams.Fleet defence will be provided by barak-8 and barak-8 ER.
> Photo of sea trial was not released,but this is news i got from friends in IDF and blogs...the reason induction was delayed was a minor problem in sea trials.Ur talking as if PLAN s-300 rif copy is something epic,that system has low engagement angle meaning it can't really engage sea skimmers effectively,and while it has a huge range against aircraft its range is paltry 30-40km at best against incoming cruise missiles.



Those Indian from those blog and forum lie to you. Don't you realised it? If there is sea trial, the photo will splashed all over Internet. You have been taken for a ride. I pity you 

What barak 8 or what? It will always be a fantasy.

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## AUSTERLITZ

Beast said:


> Those Indian from those blog and forum lie to you. Don't you realised it? If there is sea trial, the photo will splashed all over Internet. You have been taken for a ride. I pity you



Let us wait and see 2014 is my call.What will u bet on it?


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## ChineseTiger1986

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Barak 8 is coming with kolkata and viraat will be retired soon.Kolkata and vikrmaditya are joining fleet within a difference of months.And IN fleet is hardly defenceless,shtil-1 and barak-1 are excellent sams.Fleet defence will be provided by barak-8 and barak-8 ER.
> Photo of sea trial was not released,but this is news i got from friends in IDF and blogs...the reason induction was delayed was a minor problem in sea trials.Ur talking as if *PLAN s-300 rif copy is something epic*,that system has low engagement angle meaning it can't really engage sea skimmers effectively,and while it has a huge range against aircraft its range is paltry 30-40km at best against incoming cruise missiles.



The HQ-9 is not a copy of S-300, but the HQ-15 is.


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## AUSTERLITZ

Beast said:


> Those Indian from those blog and forum lie to you. Don't you realised it? If there is sea trial, the photo will splashed all over Internet. You have been taken for a ride. I pity you
> 
> What barak 8 or what? It will always be a fantasy.



What barak-8 or what?Didn't get u.Chinese have a tendency of speaking less and putting smilies more.


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## Beast

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Let us wait and see 2014 is my call.What will u bet on it?



I challenged you, troll.


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## AUSTERLITZ

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The HQ-9 is not a copy of S-300, but the HQ-15 is.



Not an exact copy,but based on the same system.


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## Beast

AUSTERLITZ said:


> What barak-8 or what?Didn't get u.Chinese have a tendency of speaking less and putting smilies more.



Becos its not intergrated yet. So barak 8 or 10 makes no different. It is still not a workable warship. Indian kolkata destroyer is still a paper tech only. 

That means you are bragging abt a weapon that has still cannot be used or threaten others.

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## AUSTERLITZ

Beast said:


> I challenged you, troll.



And i you,whats at stake?i say 2014,if its not i'll change my avatar to anything u want for 2 months beginning 2015.And if i win u change urs for 2 months from kolkata entry.Agreed?Take it if u've got the guts and let the forumers and administrators be witness


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## Beast

AUSTERLITZ said:


> And i you,whats at stake?i say 2014,if its not i'll change my avatar to anything u want for 2 months beginning 2015.And if i win u change urs for 2 months from kolkata entry.Agreed?Take it if u've got the guts and let the forumers and administrators be witness



Deal. I will take on all the Indian brag king 

If INS Kolkata destroyer is not commission end of 2014. You be crapped.

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## AUSTERLITZ

Beast said:


> Becos its not intergrated yet. So barak 8 or 10 makes no different. It is still not a workable warship. Indian kolkata destroyer is still a paper tech only.
> 
> That means you are bragging abt a weapon that has still cannot be used or threaten others.



Only uninformed trolls do it isreal delivered systems in 2012,they have been integrated.I trust my sources.2014 OR NOT?If u got the guts bring it on..otherwise run away chinese chicken and be silent.Talk the talk or can u walk the walk?Open challenge.



Beast said:


> Deal. I will take on all the Indian brag king



So let it be written,so let it be done.
Ok but if kolkata comes in 2014 and then chinaman ....
As for hq-9 range against cruise missiles its even less around 15-25 km not 30-40 as i earlier said.AUSAIRPOWER which is favourite source of chinese fanboys especially j-20 ones.CPMIEC HQ-9 / HHQ-9 / FD-2000 / FT-2000 Self Propelled Air Defence System
Not surprising since its derived from s-300 with modifications.So ur hq-9 provides fleet defense against aircraft but is similar in performance to shtil-1 in terms of providing fleet defense against cruise missiles.

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## tanlixiang28776

Your arguing with a empty check here pal.

Non Indians here prefer to compare things that are actually confirmed

The Kolkata class is not operational end of discussion

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## AUSTERLITZ

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Your arguing with a empty check here pal.
> 
> Non Indians here prefer to compare things that are actually confirmed



Its not my fault u people don't have extensive knowledge on the progress of indian armed forces.Think china is beginning and end of world.
But like we agreed,let time tell who was the troll....no more to be said.


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## tanlixiang28776

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Its not my fault u people don't have extensive knowledge on the progress of indian armed forces.Think china is beginning and end of world.
> But like we agreed,let time tell who was the troll....no more to be said.



Well you see non Indians here take what Indians say they will do with a grain of salt, or a truckful in most cases. Prejudice? No, we just look at what Indians say and then do. On average its close to a difference of close to 100%

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## AUSTERLITZ

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Well you see non Indians here take what Indians say they will do with a grain of salt, or a truckful in most cases. Prejudice? No, we just look at what Indians say and then do. On average its close to a difference of close to 100%



Even indians take what indian media reports and forecasts say with grain of salt,no one denies our bureaucracy is inefficient and corrupt.But denying the existence of barak-8 and kolkata sea trials that were reported back in force magazine ,without deep knowledge on the subject is just biased nationalism at work..nothing more.


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## ChineseTiger1986

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Even indians take what indian media reports and forecasts say with grain of salt,no one denies our bureaucracy is inefficient and corrupt.But denying the existence of barak-8 and kolkata sea trials that were reported back in force magazine ,without deep knowledge on the subject is just biased nationalism at work..nothing more.





> These are the largest naval vessels ever constructed at the Indian naval yards at Mazagon. The Kolkata class is the Indian Navy Project 15A developed by the INS Navy's Directorate of Naval Design, with detailed design developed by Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL). The first three vessels are Project 15A, Kolkata Class guided missile destroyers and have all already been launched. The INS Kolkata, in March 2006, the INS Kochi in September 2009, and the INS Chennai in April 2010.
> 
> Numeorus systems, particularly the joint venture missile systems and Ukrainian portions of the propulsion system have delayed the final outfitting and launching of these vessels. *It has been almost seven years since the hull of the Kolkata was launched. At this point however, as progress has been made in these areas, it is expected that the Kolkata may be launched and put into sea trials by late 2013 or early 2014, for commissioning into service in 2015. Each of the other vessels would follow at one year intervals such that all three are commissioned and in service by 2017. *



AEGIS VESSLES OF THE WORLD - KOLKATA CLASS PAGE


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## tanlixiang28776

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Even indians take what indian media reports and forecasts say with grain of salt,no one denies our bureaucracy is inefficient and corrupt.But denying the existence of barak-8 and kolkata sea trials that were reported back in force magazine ,without deep knowledge on the subject is just biased nationalism at work..nothing more.



Give me a picture anything pls. Use that internet freedom you tout so much for something. 

Biased nationalism has very little to do with stating facts. You have barely any knowledge of the Chinese military when you call J 31 and J 16 projects speculation when they're that open in the media. That's bias. When I state that the Kolkata class is not commissioned that's fact. The Indian military is slow as hell and lies to its citizens on a regular basis is a fact. There is no bias here.

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## AUSTERLITZ

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> AEGIS VESSLES OF THE WORLD - KOLKATA CLASS PAGE



Wait and see...our defence magazine reported sea trails completed that led to discovery of a problem for which date is now 2014.



tanlixiang28776 said:


> Give me a picture anything pls. Use that internet freedom you tout so much for something.
> 
> Biased nationalism has very little to do with stating facts. You have barely any knowledge of the Chinese military when you call J 31 and J 16 projects speculation when they're that open in the media. That's bias. When I state that the Kolkata class is not commissioned that's fact. The Indian military is slow as hell and lies to its citizens on a regular basis is a fact. There is no bias here.



Pics are not available whatsoever,last pics were from 2010-2011.Bias is simple,chinese like flaming anything indian.
Anyway bet is placed and we will see.


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## tanlixiang28776

LOL just checked where Indians came into discussion.

Oh right it was you coming onto this thread to talk about how superior your un-commissioned toy was to the type 052D.

Get real we wouldn't discuss Indian crap if you didn't shovel it in our faces.

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## conworldus

tanlixiang28776 said:


> LOL just checked where Indians came into discussion.
> 
> Oh right it was you coming onto this thread to talk about how superior your un-commissioned toy was to the type 052D.
> 
> Get real we wouldn't discuss Indian crap if you didn't shovel it in our faces.



Indians are not capable enough to threaten us. Not responding to them is the best way.

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## cnleio

052C/052D DDG's weapons layout


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## cnleio

VLS model






PLAN 052C DDG's weapons operation room


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## cnleio

052D building ...


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## cnleio

052C DDG CG







052D DDG CG


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## cnleio

052D DDG's 130mm gun


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## cnleio

China 052D DDG's home (xxxxx somewhere in China)


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## cnleio

PLAN's VLS system, HHQ-9 vs HHQ-16 vs SA-N-6C(Russia) vs 052D's new VLS

HHQ-9 VLS:





































Loading HHQ-9 missile


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## cnleio

PLAN's VLS system, HHQ-9 vs HHQ-16 vs SA-N-6C(Russia) vs 052D's new VLS

HHQ-16 VLS:

















































Old pic HHQ-16 VLS testing


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## cnleio

PLAN's VLS system, HHQ-9 vs HHQ-16 vs SA-N-6C(Russia) vs 052D's new VLS

Russia SA-N6-C VLS:











































SA-N6-C VLS loading S-300MPU1 missiles


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## cnleio

PLAN's VLS system, HHQ-9 vs HHQ-16 vs SA-N-6C(Russia) vs 052D's new VLS

052D's new VLS:

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## cnleio

At last, America MK-41 VLS















































MK-41 loading


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## cnleio

China phased array radar 052C vs 052D

052C phased array radar:











052D phased array radar testing (old pix)

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## hk299792458

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Wait and see...our defence magazine reported sea trails completed that led to discovery of a problem for which date is now 2014.
> 
> 
> 
> Pics are not available whatsoever,last pics were from 2010-2011.Bias is simple,chinese like flaming anything indian.
> Anyway bet is placed and we will see.



Quoted from Jane's Fighting Ships -



> Kolkata (Project 15A) class
> (DDGHM)
> IN SERVICE: 0
> BUILDING: 3
> PROPOSED/TRANSFER: 4
> Fleetlist
> 
> ship names	Builders	Laid down	Launched	Commissioned
> Kolkata	Mazagon Dock Ltd, Mumbai	26 Sep 2003	30 Mar 2006	2013
> Kochi	Mazagon Dock Ltd, Mumbai	25 Oct 2005	18 Sep 2009	2013
> Chennai	Mazagon Dock Ltd, Mumbai	21 Feb 2006	1 Apr 2010	2014
> 
> Kolkata
> Dimensions and weights
> Displacement
> standard:	6800 tonnes (6692.6 (uk) t) (7495.7 t (short)) (6800000 kg)
> full load:	7292 tonnes (7176.8 (uk) t) (8038.1 t (short)) (7292000 kg)
> Length
> overall:	163.95 m (537.9 ft)
> Beam
> overall:	17.71 m (58.1 ft)
> Draught
> hull:	5.4 m (17.7 ft)
> Performance
> Speed
> top speed:	32 kt (59.3 km/h) (36.8 mph)
> Range
> standard:	4500 n miles (8334.0 km) (5178.5 miles) at 18 kt (33.3 km/h) (20.7 mph)
> Capacity
> Complement
> military
> crew:	360
> officers:	40
> Machinery:	4 Zorya/Mashprockt DT-59 gas turbines; 82,820 hp(m) (61.7 MW); 2 shafts; cp props
> Firepower
> Missiles:	SSM: 16 Brahmos PJ-10 (2 octuple VLS) [Ref 1]; active/passive radar homing to 290 km (157 n miles) at 2.6 Mach; warhead 200 kg; sea skimmer in terminal phase.
> SAM: IAI/Rafael Barak 8 [Ref 2]; inertial mid-course guidance and active radar homing to 80 km (43.2 n miles); 1-16 cell VLS launcher (forward), 1-32 cell VLS launcher (aft); total of 48 missiles.
> Guns:	1 Oto Melara 3 in (76 mm) Super Rapid [Ref 3]; 120 rds/min to 16 km (8.7 n miles); weight of shell 6 kg. 4-30 mm/AK 630 [Ref 4]; 6 barrels per mounting; 3,000 rds/min combined to 2 km.
> Torpedoes:	4 ITTL 21 in (533 mm) (2 twin) tubes [Ref 5]. Combination of SET 65E; anti-submarine; active/passive homing to 15 km (8.1 n miles) at 40 kt; warhead 205 kg and Type 53-65; passive wake homing to 19 km (10.3 n miles) at 45 kt; warhead 305 kg.
> A/S Mortars:	2 RBU 6000 [Ref 6]; 12 tubed trainable; range 6,000 m; warhead 31 kg.
> Physical countermeasures:	Decoys: 4 Kavach chaff launchers [Ref 7]; Mareech torpedo decoy.
> Electronic countermeasures:	ESM/ECM: Ellora EW suite.
> Radars:	Air search: Bharat RAWL-02 Mk 3 (LW08) [Ref 8]; D-band.
> Air/surface search: EL/M-2248 STAR; 3D; E/F-band [Ref 9].
> Fire control: ELTA EL-M 2221 STGR; I/J/K-band (for SAM); BEL Lynx; I-band (for 100 mm); Plank Shave (Granit Garpun B) (for SSM) [Ref 10]; I/J-band.
> Navigation: Consilium Selesmar; E/F/I-bands.
> Sonars:	Bharat HUMSA; bow-mounted; medium frequency. Towed array (to be confirmed).
> Combat data systems:	CAIO-15A.
> Helicopters:	2 Westland Sea Kings Mk 42B [Ref 11] or 2 HAL Dhruv.
> 
> Programmes: The first of three modified Delhi class was laid down in 2003 but progress since her launch in 2006 has been very slow. Approval for construction of four Project 15B ships was given in May 2009. The ships are to be to a modified design of Project 15A ships. A contract is expected in 2013.
> 
> Structure: Designed by the Indian Naval Design Bureau, the design appears to be a development of the Delhi class incorporating some features of both the Talwar and Project 17 frigates.
> 
> Operational: Sea trials of Kolkata are expected to start in 2013.



Henri K.


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## klub

Actually in reality PLAN is great but to match a force like USN is a distant dream , no offence. To all chinese dudes :

A fresh hunt for heavy torpedoes for its new line of warships and a setback in the delivery of new destroyers has the Indian navy reeling under pressure of delay in major modernisation programmes.

The process to acquire new torpedoes was set rolling recently after the first attempt to purchase the weapon got embroiled in controversies.

With Finmeccanica's conduct in the VVIP helicopter deal for the Indian Air Force coming under scanner, questions have been raised on the company's participation in other contracts though no punitive action has been taken against it by the government so far.

Acquisition 

The acquisition of torpedoes was held back because the front runner, Black Shark torpedo, was being made by a Finmeccanica subsidiary called WASS.

Even though the ongoing $300 million project to procure 98 torpedoes has not been cancelled officially, the navy has issued Request for Information (RFI), re-launching the process to procure the weapons. An evaluation committee had given an "all clear", but despite that the project had not moved further.

The German rival Atlas Elektronik had also raised questions about Black Shark's selection.

Sources said a fresh process of induction was initiated so that the torpedoes could be made available for all the warships and submarines in the pipeline - including Project 75 (Scorpene), 15A (Kolkata class destroyers), 15B (follow on of Kolkata class destroyers).

*At the moment, navy warships are equipped with old Russian heavy torpedoes.* The new torpedoes were also to be integrated with the French Scorpene submarines under construction.

Even as the torpedo issue was being sorted out, the navy was hit by the delay in project 15A for the construction of three Kolkata class destroyers

The first ship of the class, being constructed at Muzgaon Dock Limited (MDL) in Mumbai, was scheduled to be delivered in July. But technical problems were detected during the sea trials of the destroyers - the largest warships to be constructed and designed at MDL.

It is estimated that the project has been delayed by at least *six months as the new destroyer would now be made available only by early 2014.*

Project 15A, under which three destroyers have to be built, is already running two years behind schedule. *The revised deadline for the delivery of first ship was mid-2013. The project was going on track keeping up with the revised deadline but the snag was detected during the sea trials of the ship.
*

We don't do propaganda. Plain , clear and sometimes painful truths we like. but imagine man - 

Vikramaditya , Arihant , Ins Kolkata, Ins kamorta X 2, etc. Wow .


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## Beast

klub said:


> Actually in reality PLAN is great but to match a force like USN is a distant dream , no offence. To all chinese dudes :
> 
> A fresh hunt for heavy torpedoes for its new line of warships and a setback in the delivery of new destroyers has the Indian navy reeling under pressure of delay in major modernisation programmes.
> 
> The process to acquire new torpedoes was set rolling recently after the first attempt to purchase the weapon got embroiled in controversies.
> 
> With Finmeccanica's conduct in the VVIP helicopter deal for the Indian Air Force coming under scanner, questions have been raised on the company's participation in other contracts though no punitive action has been taken against it by the government so far.
> 
> Acquisition
> 
> The acquisition of torpedoes was held back because the front runner, Black Shark torpedo, was being made by a Finmeccanica subsidiary called WASS.
> 
> Even though the ongoing $300 million project to procure 98 torpedoes has not been cancelled officially, the navy has issued Request for Information (RFI), re-launching the process to procure the weapons. An evaluation committee had given an "all clear", but despite that the project had not moved further.
> 
> The German rival Atlas Elektronik had also raised questions about Black Shark's selection.
> 
> Sources said a fresh process of induction was initiated so that the torpedoes could be made available for all the warships and submarines in the pipeline - including Project 75 (Scorpene), 15A (Kolkata class destroyers), 15B (follow on of Kolkata class destroyers).
> 
> *At the moment, navy warships are equipped with old Russian heavy torpedoes.* The new torpedoes were also to be integrated with the French Scorpene submarines under construction.
> 
> Even as the torpedo issue was being sorted out, the navy was hit by the delay in project 15A for the construction of three Kolkata class destroyers
> 
> The first ship of the class, being constructed at Muzgaon Dock Limited (MDL) in Mumbai, was scheduled to be delivered in July. But technical problems were detected during the sea trials of the destroyers - the largest warships to be constructed and designed at MDL.
> 
> It is estimated that the project has been delayed by at least *six months as the new destroyer would now be made available only by early 2014.*
> 
> Project 15A, under which three destroyers have to be built, is already running two years behind schedule. *The revised deadline for the delivery of first ship was mid-2013. The project was going on track keeping up with the revised deadline but the snag was detected during the sea trials of the ship.
> *
> 
> We don't do propaganda. Plain , clear and sometimes painful truths we like. but imagine man -
> 
> Vikramaditya , Arihant , Ins Kolkata, Ins kamorta X 2, etc. Wow .



As if we Chinese do propaganda? The benefit of doubts is yours. Everyone know Indian like to brag, like talking about putting a man into space in 2013 or even talk about manned mission to moon in 2020...

We already have 3 long range air defense Type052C with phased array radar system in service. Not sea trial or testing..












While you Indian got nothing to show , other than the crap INS kolkata in shipyard.  Let the reader judge who is the one who always brag and do propaganda...

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## cnleio

Beast said:


> We already have 3 long range air defense Type052C with phased array radar system in service. Not sea trial or testing..
> 
> While you Indian got nothing to show , other than the crap INS kolkata in shipyard.  Let the reader judge who is the one who always brag and do propaganda...



Correct here, 4x 052C class DDG in PLAN now they r N.o170, N.o171, N.o151, N.o152. In 2-3 years this number will reach 10x 052C/D DDG soon.

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## April.lyrics

klub said:


> Actually in reality PLAN is great but to match a force like USN is a distant dream , no offence. To all chinese dudes :
> 
> A fresh hunt for heavy torpedoes for its new line of warships and a setback in the delivery of new destroyers has the Indian navy reeling under pressure of delay in major modernisation programmes.
> 
> The process to acquire new torpedoes was set rolling recently after the first attempt to purchase the weapon got embroiled in controversies.
> 
> With Finmeccanica's conduct in the VVIP helicopter deal for the Indian Air Force coming under scanner, questions have been raised on the company's participation in other contracts though no punitive action has been taken against it by the government so far.
> 
> Acquisition
> 
> The acquisition of torpedoes was held back because the front runner, Black Shark torpedo, was being made by a Finmeccanica subsidiary called WASS.
> 
> Even though the ongoing $300 million project to procure 98 torpedoes has not been cancelled officially, the navy has issued Request for Information (RFI), re-launching the process to procure the weapons. An evaluation committee had given an "all clear", but despite that the project had not moved further.
> 
> The German rival Atlas Elektronik had also raised questions about Black Shark's selection.
> 
> Sources said a fresh process of induction was initiated so that the torpedoes could be made available for all the warships and submarines in the pipeline - including Project 75 (Scorpene), 15A (Kolkata class destroyers), 15B (follow on of Kolkata class destroyers).
> 
> *At the moment, navy warships are equipped with old Russian heavy torpedoes.* The new torpedoes were also to be integrated with the French Scorpene submarines under construction.
> 
> Even as the torpedo issue was being sorted out, the navy was hit by the delay in project 15A for the construction of three Kolkata class destroyers
> 
> The first ship of the class, being constructed at Muzgaon Dock Limited (MDL) in Mumbai, was scheduled to be delivered in July. But technical problems were detected during the sea trials of the destroyers - the largest warships to be constructed and designed at MDL.
> 
> It is estimated that the project has been delayed by at least *six months as the new destroyer would now be made available only by early 2014.*
> 
> Project 15A, under which three destroyers have to be built, is already running two years behind schedule. *The revised deadline for the delivery of first ship was mid-2013. The project was going on track keeping up with the revised deadline but the snag was detected during the sea trials of the ship.
> *
> 
> We don't do propaganda. Plain , clear and sometimes painful truths we like. but imagine man -
> 
> Vikramaditya , Arihant , Ins Kolkata, Ins kamorta X 2, etc. Wow .



indian navy deserves respect.

Each navy would be faced with some problems.but we have seen indian navy growing fast these years.hope IN to play a positive role

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

[/QUOTE]

Ha
That shipyard looks like a post apocalyptic dump. They building ships or scrapping them? Look how high the trash is piled up on the bottom right! The white slaves better clean that mess up!

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## cnleio

Pls let's stop arguments and back to the topic continue discussing China 052D.

About India kolkata class DDG, Indian had finished the shipbody but waiting for Israel Barak-8 VLS missiles and Israel EL/M-2248 AESA radar. These foreign sub-systems will delay kolkata DDG deployment, anyway as far as i know kolkata class DDG still not serve in India Navy yet and not sea trial, coz it's still waiting for Israel weapons.

P.S i would like to see kolkata class DDG sea trial, if kolkata start sea trial pls share the pic for other members here. Ths

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## cnleio

HHQ-10 on 052D, maybe 24x RAM

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## cirr

More 052Ds&#65292;and soon 055s&#65292; on their way&#65306;

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## Aegis DDG

Xianzhu Feiyue ji shu wei Zhongguo Renmin Jiefangjun Haijun


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## hk299792458

Installation of the 4 *Type 346A* APAR on the 1st *Type 052D* destroyer is finished.
















Henri K.

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## cnleio

052D new pic, finished installation of type 346A APAR




















ShipBridge 052D vs 052C

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## cnleio



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## 帅的一匹

Most important is all the systems of 052D are made by ourself, we could build as many as possible if affordable.

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## cirr

D1 soon ready for sea trials&#65306;








More Ds in the pipeline&#65306;


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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> Most important is all the systems of 052D are made by ourself, we could build as many as possible if affordable.



Exactly&#12290;

And those Kolkatas will remain rusty lumps when the 1st batch of 4 Ds are all commisioned in the PLAN&#12290;


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## cnleio




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## cnleio

Ths Henri K, quoted pix from MP.net

Some pictures taken from a plane flying over the ******** shipbuilding base. We can have a look on the second biggest shipbuilding base in the world, in which 5 Type 052C / Type 052D destroyers are being built.






















*Right now we knew soon PLAN will owned 6x 052C and 4x 052D, total 10x 052C/D DDGs, then time to build Great 10,000ton 055 class DDG.*

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## ChineseTiger1986

And this is our 40000+ tons LHD.

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## hk299792458

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> And this is our 40000+ tons LHD.



No.

Henri K.

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## ChineseTiger1986

hk299792458 said:


> No.
> 
> Henri K.



Then what it is?

The camouflage looks like a PLAN warship.


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## hk299792458

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Then what it is?
> 
> The camouflage looks like a PLAN warship.



Copper of things -

* Your red circle is located inside the 2nd production line, which is operated by HD-ZH shipyard. (For your information, 1st production line on the left is under responsibility of WGC shipyard and mainly builds VLCC/VLOC, and the 3nd production line is controlled by Jiangnan shipyard for military warship)

* If it was really a 40000t LHD, it should be much larger and longer than that

* Don't forget that CSSC group has built a partial module of the future aircraft carrier for simulation and exposal purpose, since more than one year...  I let you imagine where is it now.

Henri K.

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## by78

Wow, now that is one impressive looking shipyard. The Mazagon Dock facility, which is the premier yard in all of India, looks like a workshop in a tin shack by comparison.

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## by78

wanglaokan said:


> Most important is all the systems of 052D are made by ourself, we could build as many as possible if affordable.



To be fair, different people take pride in different things and have different priorities. Some value self-reliance and self-improvement, whereas others take pride in relying on strangers, basking in reflected glory, and living vicariously. 

People are different.

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## ChineseTiger1986

hk299792458 said:


> Copper of things -
> 
> * Your red circle is located inside the 2nd production line, which is operated by HD-ZH shipyard. (For your information, 1st production line on the left is under responsibility of WGC shipyard and mainly builds VLCC/VLOC, and the 3nd production line is controlled by Jiangnan shipyard for military warship)
> 
> * If it was really a 40000t LHD, it should be much larger and longer than that
> 
> * Don't forget that CSSC group has built a partial module of the future aircraft carrier for simulation and exposal purpose, since more than one year...  I let you imagine where is it now.
> 
> Henri K.



Yeah, it could be the mock-up module of the aircraft carrier 002.

Most likely that JN shipyard has received the order to build the aircraft carrier 002.

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## hk299792458

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yeah, it could be the mock-up module of the aircraft carrier 002.
> 
> Most likely that JN shipyard has received the order to build the aircraft carrier 002.



Not yet.

Henri K.


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## ChineseTiger1986

hk299792458 said:


> Not yet.
> 
> Henri K.



Well, it seems that Kanwa just hits the jackpot this time, they are guessing it is the Type 002, although i really despise them, but it seems they are right this time.


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## by78

Beast said:


> When PLAN Already commission 12 of Type055 cruiser. INS Kolkata will still in this crap shape.
> 
> Then the Indian troll will still talk about their INS Kolkata destroyer will be more superior than any Chinese warship with French crap, Israel crap and every crap sub system they can import from.
> 
> Serious, no joke!





Now come on, stop knocking the Kolkata Class. 

Is India at times slow? Yes. Does India often make claims and predications it can not meet? Yes. Does India miss her equipment procurement deadlines too often for its own good? Yes. 

But let's be fair, the Kolkata class could yet redeem itself. It has a good, watertight hull, made from steel imported from Russia. That's a pretty solid start for India.

Now all they have to do is putting the rest of the ship together. Let's wait and see, since 'slow and steady wins the race'. Chalta hai, chalta hai.

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## cnleio

052D's 130mm gun

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## cnleio

052D new pic, soon sea trial











Un-official data about 052D' type346A radar









> 052D&#37319;&#29992;&#30340;&#26159;&#22269;&#20135;&#26032;&#19968;&#20195;&#26377;&#28304;&#30456;&#25511;&#38453;&#38647;&#36798;&#65292;&#24037;&#20316;&#21407;&#29702;&#21644;&#25216;&#26415;&#27700;&#24179;&#19982;&#32654;&#22269;&#8220;&#38463;&#21033;·&#20271;&#20811;III&#8221;&#32423;&#39537;&#36880;&#33328;&#25152;&#37319;&#29992;&#30340;AMDR&#38647;&#36798;&#30456;&#20284;&#65292;&#26159;&#30446;&#21069;&#19990;&#30028;&#19978;&#20165;&#26377;&#30340;&#20004;&#31181;&#33328;&#29992;&#22823;&#22411;&#26377;&#28304;&#30456;&#25511;&#38453;&#38647;&#36798;&#20043;&#19968;&#12290;
> China 052D using type346A phased array radar, it's new gen domestic AESA radar. Its specifications/features as similar as America "Burke III" DDG's AMDR radar system. 052D's type346A AESA is currently only two types of Navy warship's large AESA radar in today navy world.




052&#39537;&#36880;&#33328;&#20998;&#26512;/052D DDG analysis


> 052D&#22411;&#39537;&#36880;&#33328;&#30340;&#26032;&#22411;346A&#22411;&#30456;&#25511;&#38453;&#38647;&#36798;&#23545;&#31354;&#25506;&#27979;&#36317;&#31163;&#22823;&#32422;&#22312;300&#65374;350&#21315;&#31859;&#65292;&#21487;&#21516;&#26102;&#25506;&#27979;&#12289;&#35782;&#21035;&#12289;&#36861;&#36394;&#19978;&#30334;&#20010;&#31354;&#20013;&#21644;&#27700;&#38754;&#30446;&#26631;&#65292;&#20855;&#26377;&#21516;&#26102;&#19982;&#25968;&#21313;&#20010;&#31354;&#20013;&#30446;&#26631;&#20132;&#25112;&#30340;&#33021;&#21147;&#12290;&#32780;&#19988;&#65292;&#20276;&#38543;&#35013;&#33328;&#30340;&#36824;&#26377;&#26032;&#22411;&#30340;&#8220;&#28023;&#32418;&#26071;-9&#25913;&#8221;&#65288;HHQ-9B&#65289;&#20013;&#36828;&#31243;&#38450;&#31354;&#23548;&#24377;&#65292;&#22312;346A&#22411;&#30456;&#25511;&#38453;&#38647;&#36798;&#30340;&#25351;&#25511;&#19979;&#65292;&#35813;&#24377;&#23558;&#20855;&#22791;&#28023;&#19978;&#20013;&#27573;&#21453;&#23548;&#33021;&#21147;&#65292;&#19982;&#26032;&#21152;&#35013;&#30340;&#8220;&#28023;&#32418;&#26071;-10&#8221;&#65288;HHQ-10&#65289;&#36817;&#31243;&#23548;&#24377;&#31995;&#32479;&#32452;&#25104;&#26799;&#27425;&#21453;&#23548;&#25318;&#25130;&#28779;&#21147;&#32593;&#12290;


1. type346A AESA's air detection range at about 300km ~ 350 km
2. type346A AESA can detect, identify, track more than one hundred air and surface targets together
3. type346A AESA has the ability to fight with dozens of air targets at the same time
4. 052D using extend-range-missile updated HHQ-9B missiles, under type346A AESA command new HHQ-9B missile can execute mid-air missile interception mission (CNMD) on the sea.

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## hk299792458

New amateur pictures taken on August 1st, un total of 2 x *Type 052C* destroyers and 3 x *Type 052D* destroyers, plus 4 modules of the 4th Type 052D.

We can also see a new *Type 726* LCAC plus 1 new *Type 081* or similar minehunter.
















Henri K.

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## by78

hk299792458 said:


> New amateur pictures taken on August 1st, un total of 2 x *Type 052C* destroyers and 3 x *Type 052D* destroyers, plus 4 modules of the 4th Type 052D. We can also see a new *Type 726* LCAC plus 1 new *Type 081* or similar minehunter.



Very impressive facilities, and if I understand correctly, the photos represent only a small portion of a very massive shipyard. I hope the folks at Magazon Dock are learning a thing or two, starting with basic cleanliness. The Magazon facility looks as if a hurricane had just gone through it and deposited heaps of trash.

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

by78 said:


> Now come on, stop knocking the Kolkata Class.
> 
> Is India at times slow? Yes. Does India often make claims and predications it can not meet? Yes. Does India miss her equipment procurement deadlines too often for its own good? Yes.
> 
> But let's be fair, the Kolkata class could yet redeem itself. It has a good, watertight hull, made from steel imported from Russia. That's a pretty solid start for India.
> 
> Now all they have to do is putting the rest of the ship together. Let's wait and see, since 'slow and steady wins the race'. Chalta hai, chalta hai.



I cant tell if you are defending the Indians or trolling them.....


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## BRASSNAUTILUS

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Type 052D 91800 shp CODAG
> Type 052C 81000 shp CODAG
> Burke 108000 shp COGAG
> Tico 81000 shp COGAG
> Akizuki 64000 shp COGAG
> 
> The Type 052D will be the pinnacle evolution of the DDG with the CODAG propulsion, it is only lesser than Burke, so can't wait to see the mighty Type 055A as China's first DDG with the COGAG propulsion.



one of the 052 destroyers, I think 112, used COGAG.


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## by78

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> I cant tell if you are defending the Indians or trolling them.....



Oh come on, I was 100% serious. India has come a long way since the days of the British Raj. Back then, she had no shipbuilding industry to speak of. Look at how far India has come: she can now fashion imported steel into useful shapes of significant sizes whilst water-proofing them.

Progress takes time, but India has lots of it and even more patience. 'Slow and steady wins the race', as any Indian would tell you. So chalta hai, chalta hai, for building the Kolkata class is like putting together an Indian wedding: everything will be fine in the end, eventually, at some point, in due course, by and by, and over the very long haul, most probably definitely.


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## ChineseTiger1986

BRASSNAUTILUS said:


> one of the 052 destroyers, I think 112, used COGAG.



The Type 052 DDGs also use the CODAG propulsion system, two LM2500 gas turbines and one diesel engine.


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## Nishan_101

cnleio said:


> 052D's 130mm gun



So how many DDGs Type 052D China is producing and where it will going to place in current and war Scenario as US is sending all of its moderin equipment to near Chinese countries for unknown reasons...??


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## Beast

Nishan_101 said:


> So how many DDGs Type 052D China is producing and where it will going to place in current and war Scenario as US is sending all of its moderin equipment to near Chinese countries for unknown reasons...??



At least 8 of them but rumour is total of 16 will be produced. And they are producing them at a very electric pace.


----------



## Beast

by78 said:


> Oh come on, I was 100% serious. India has come a long way since the days of the British Raj. Back then, she had no shipbuilding industry to speak of. Look at how far India has come: she can now fashion imported steel into useful shapes of significant sizes whilst water-proofing them.
> 
> Progress takes time, but India has lots of it and even more patience. 'Slow and steady wins the race', as any Indian would tell you. So chalta hai, chalta hai, for building the Kolkata class is like putting together an Indian wedding: everything will be fine in the end, eventually, at some point, in due course, by and by, and over the very long haul, most probably definitely.



The problem with Indian is, they always underachieved and boast about things not happening and too optimistic. Just like space exploration. Its funny, they haven even able to send a man to space then they start talking about landing a man on moon and even bragging about overtaking China as leader of space advancement in few years time. 

Like year target of sending a man to space in 2013 and landing a man on moon in 2020? Seriously, do you think that is realistic? And all this year target is speak from the chief of ISRO.. Same as their military procurement. Precisely that is where the problem for India. If they really want to advance better than China. They shall drop that kind of attitude and get down from their high horse. If not, they will never able to improve and meet their target.

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## Nishan_101

Beast said:


> At least 8 of them but rumour is total of 16 will be produced. And they are producing them at a very electric pace.



I am quite sure that it would be 16 of them or else China might not have started this program for just 8 of these. Also How many Type 54, 54As and 54Bs are going to be produced???


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## AUSTERLITZ

Nishan_101 said:


> I am quite sure that it would be 16 of them or else China might not have started this program for just 8 of these. Also How many Type 54, 54As and 54Bs are going to be produced???



2 type 54,20 type 54A.Not aware of 54B.


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## by78

AUSTERLITZ said:


> 2 type 54,20 type 54A.Not aware of 54B.



Hey Austerlitz, in another thread you said the a ship of the Kolkata class had undergone trials. When did the trials take place? What did they involve (e.g. full speed and endurance runs, weapons and sensors test)? Care to share a source?


----------



## by78

Beast said:


> The problem with Indian is, they always underachieved and boast about things not happening and too optimistic. Just like space exploration. Its funny, they haven even able to send a man to space then they start talking about landing a man on moon and even bragging about overtaking China as leader of space advancement in few years time.
> 
> Like year target of sending a man to space in 2013 and landing a man on moon in 2020? Seriously, do you think that is realistic? And all this year target is speak from the chief of ISRO.. Same as their military procurement. Precisely that is where the problem for India. If they really want to advance better than China. They shall drop that kind of attitude and get down from their high horse. If not, they will never able to improve and meet their target.



People and cultures are different. In some cultures, people take pride in yawning credibility gaps. In other cultures, such gaps are frowned upon. Some cultures value action over words, whereas others prefer voluability and idleness.

I'm not judging. Diversity can be a beautiful thing.


----------



## AUSTERLITZ

by78 said:


> People and cultures are different. In some cultures, people take pride in yawning credibility gaps. In other cultures, such gaps are frowned upon. Some cultures value action over words, whereas others prefer voluability and idleness.
> 
> I'm not judging. Diversity can be a beautiful thing.



Your tone is certainly non judgemental.
Our country is different,authoritarian methods as in china can't be dictated here due to massive diversities.Also we have labour laws and trade unions that limit work hrs,so its difficult to speed up warship construction to chinese level were CCP word is law.Here there would be riots if this was forced .Also till now we didn't have modular construction technique in our military shipyards and ship construction thus took yrs,this new technology has now been implemented and starting with project 17A class ships will be constructed at twice previous speed.


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## by78

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Your tone is certainly non judgemental.
> Our country is different,authoritarian methods as in china can't be dictated here due to massive diversities.Also we have labour laws and trade unions that limit work hrs,so its difficult to speed up warship construction to chinese level were CCP word is law.Here there would be riots if this was forced .Also till now we didn't have modular construction technique in our military shipyards and ship construction thus took yrs,this new technology has now been implemented and starting with project 17A class ships will be constructed at twice previous speed.



Hey Austerlitz, in another thread you said the a ship of the Kolkata class had undergone trials. When did the trials take place? What did they involve (e.g. full speed and endurance runs, weapons and sensors test)? Care to share a source?


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## by78

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Your tone is certainly non judgemental.
> Our country is different,authoritarian methods as in china can't be dictated here due to massive diversities.Also we have labour laws and trade unions that limit work hrs,so its difficult to speed up warship construction to chinese level were CCP word is law.Here there would be riots if this was forced .Also till now we didn't have modular construction technique in our military shipyards and ship construction thus took yrs,this new technology has now been implemented and starting with project 17A class ships will be constructed at twice previous speed.



Mmmm, mmmm... Good points, good points... 

I wonder, if India is so diverse and therefore adverse to centralized command, then why not break up the country into natural constituent parts, like the old days of the Maharajas?

Or alternately, why not reduce the amount of laws and regulations on the books so as to accommodate such diversity?

Lastly, does corruption not also play a role in the delays?

By the way, could you provide a source on the Kolkata Class undergoing sea trials?


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## Beast

by78 said:


> Mmmm, mmmm... Good points, good points...
> 
> Does corruption not also play a role in delays?
> 
> By the way, could you provide a source on the Kolkata Class undergoing sea trials?



Please dont be fooled by this Indian. He just trying to mask all the deficiency of India heavy red tape and impotent of India shipyard to assemble so many foreign system which proves beyond the scope of what India can handle. What labour law and Trade union are BS.. Many shipyard in India and industries still ignore the right of workers. Law is there but implementing it is another question.

As I say, the heavy delay of Kolkata destroyer has again do with India over optimistic and unrealistic target set. Nothing to do with Trade Union and labour law. Its funny , he thinks that Kolkata delay is becos worker not able to do 24 hours to get the job done.  Dont you know something called shift work? If India military has the will and funds, it can easily arrange shift work , jut like how China come up so fast with 056 corvette and 052C/D destroyer. 

Trying to paint China shipyard trying to work its worker to death is just a cheapshot used by inferior Indian who cant match Chinese shipyard sophiscation and Chinese worker efficiency.

Imagine you have import system from 5-6 countries or different companies and try to merge them togther will be an uphill task. That is not a very efficient way to do things.

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## by78

Beast said:


> Please dont be fooled by this Indian. He just trying to mask all the deficiency of India heavy red tape and impotent of India shipyard to assemble so many foreign system which proves beyond the scope of what India can handle. What labour law and Trade union are BS.. Many shipyard in India and industries still ignore the right of workers. Law is there but implementing it is another question.
> 
> As I say, the heavy delay of Kolkata destroyer has again do with India over optimistic and unrealistic target set. Nothing to do with Trade Union and labour law. Its funny , he thinks that Kolkata delay is becos worker not able to do 24 hours to get the job done.  Dont you know something called shift work? If India military has the will and funds, it can easily arrange shift work , jut like how China come up so fast with 056 corvette and 052C/D destroyer.
> 
> Trying to paint China shipyard trying to work its worker to death is just a cheapshot used by inferior Indian who cant match Chinese shipyard sophiscation and Chinese worker efficiency.
> 
> Imagine you have import system from 5-6 countries or different companies and try to merge them togther will be an uphill task. That is not a very efficient way to do things.



I don't think he's blaming Indian bureaucracy for delays. He is, however, blaming democracy and diversity. He's a very original thinker and not very politically correct: for most people would defend democracy and diversity.


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## Pakchina

danger007 said:


> yes you are right... Unlike floating casino( So AC carrier),we didn't arrange pink color light setting on the Kolkata class destroyer ........



Kolkata Destroyer built with EU technology with EU defense companies supplying most of its components. Its not hasardous that Kolkata type is similar to Horizon or Fremm or Type 45 destroyer. Same thing regarding Indian ACs, scorpene submarines which are Fench made just like US made M777, US C 17 Globemaster, so there is no need to be proud of foreign military weapons. India could get whatever it needs from the US, EU and Israel regarding military equipment. Mroeso, US and EU are forcing India to buy its latest military hardware like the Rafale, Apache etc in view of countering China. If India was under weapons embargo like China, India would have never been able to build one single warship, nor any submarine only buying Russian coldwar relics and accumulating scat/waste. India the dirtiest country in the world, in Delhi when it rains, roads pavements become muddy. BUildings are dirty, crows flying everywhere, people doing their natural...... on the road. China has perhaps been portrayed as a polluted country, but we cannot notice it when visiting Shenzhen, Shanghai etc. We are proud of China, which despite the current technological and weapons embargoes is able to build decent warships and aircrafts.

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## cirr

DDG 172 &#8220;*Kunming*&#8221;&#65306;

?????-?

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## AUSTERLITZ

by78 said:


> Mmmm, mmmm... Good points, good points...
> 
> I wonder, if India is so diverse and therefore adverse to centralized command, then why not break up the country into natural constituent parts, like the old days of the Maharajas?
> 
> Or alternately, why not reduce the amount of laws and regulations on the books so as to accommodate such diversity?
> 
> Lastly, does corruption not also play a role in the delays?
> 
> By the way, could you provide a source on the Kolkata Class undergoing sea trials?



Its futile to discuss the nature of india to people with preconcieved notions,going slowly doesn't mean breaking up the country.You just couldn't resists trolling.

As for reasons they are-
1]bureaucracy-this is slow to alter as in multi party system and coalition givernments consensus is difficult to achieve.
2]Corruption.Obvious.But this increases costs more than increase time.
3]Land acquisistion and labour laws,regardless of beast's rants..these are problematic in india as opoosition party is always eager to cash in on slightest mistakes and sabotage whole project.
4]Till now we were unable to produce warship grade steel for top end heavy warships,with the beginning of the indigeneous aircraft carrier this dependancy ends as SAIL can now produce warship grade stell even for heaviest ships.
5]We still have to import warship engines and this often causes delays.
6]IN has tendedncy to continously change requirements for the ships and this too leads to delays as new tech takes time to incorporate.
7]Lastly and most importantly our warship building yards till now used old shipbuilding technique ,only now has modular shipbuilding being implemented and will take effect from p-17A class,this will halve building time.

These are major reasons for long buildng time for IN ships.
As for kolkata class no official sources,just know that its to be commisioned in 2014 instead of 2013 to correct some problem that arose in trials.

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## xuxu1457

Latest picture about 052D, posted 6th Aug

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## by78

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Its futile to discuss the nature of india to people with preconcieved notions,going slowly doesn't mean breaking up the country.You just couldn't resists trolling.
> 
> As for reasons they are-
> 1]bureaucracy-this is slow to alter as in multi party system and coalition givernments consensus is difficult to achieve.
> 2]Corruption.Obvious.But this increases costs more than increase time.
> 3]Land acquisistion and labour laws,regardless of beast's rants..these are problematic in india as opoosition party is always eager to cash in on slightest mistakes and sabotage whole project.
> 4]Till now we were unable to produce warship grade steel for top end heavy warships,with the beginning of the indigeneous aircraft carrier this dependancy ends as SAIL can now produce warship grade stell even for heaviest ships.
> 5]We still have to import warship engines and this often causes delays.
> 6]IN has tendedncy to continously change requirements for the ships and this too leads to delays as new tech takes time to incorporate.
> 7]Lastly and most importantly our warship building yards till now used old shipbuilding technique ,only now has modular shipbuilding being implemented and will take effect from p-17A class,this will halve building time.
> 
> These are major reasons for long buildng time for IN ships.
> As for kolkata class no official sources,just know that its to be commisioned in 2014 instead of 2013 to correct some problem that arose in trials.



Austerlitz, could you please provide a source, a link, or an article regarding the trials and what problems have been found? I understand there is no 'official' source on this, but how about an unofficial one? Anything?


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## AUSTERLITZ

by78 said:


> Austerlitz, could you please provide a source, a link, or an article regarding the trials and what problems have been found? I understand there is no 'official' source on this, but how about an unofficial one? Anything?



Man most of ANY info on this net is available on trishul blog or hearsay from members in BR forums.
But one can rest assured that kolkata is coming in 2014 as otherwise it would mean IN would not induct a major warship for whole of 2014 as shivalik class commisioned and 3rd talwar batch still not officially inked.Also no sub deliveries on the horizon.With IN expanding rapidly thats a big no.
Though kamorta class corvette comissioning is also due.Those are more or less light friagtes at 3000 tons.

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## by78

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Man most of ANY info on this net is available on trishul blog or hearsay from members in BR forums.
> But one can rest assured that kolkata is coming in 2014 as otherwise it would mean IN would not induct a major warship for whole of 2014 as shivalik class commisioned and 3rd talwar batch still not officially inked.Also no sub deliveries on the horizon.With IN expanding rapidly thats a big no.
> Though kamorta class corvette comissioning is also due.Those are more or less light friagtes at 3000 tons.



I browsed the Trishul blog, pursuing its excellent google powered search engine. I searched up and down, read every entry there is on P15A/Kolkata, no mention was ever made of the trials actually taking place. None whatsoever. 

Since you insisted that sea trials of the P15A had taken place, and that some faults were found during these trials which resulted in the commission date being pushed to 2014, I'm asking you to point me to an article that actually verify what you said. So far, I've seen nothing from you.

If the information regarding the trials is truly available on the Trishul blog, then link me to it. Just give me a link.

Easy peasy.


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## AUSTERLITZ

by78 said:


> I browsed the Trishul blog, pursuing its excellent google powered search engine. I searched up and down, read every entry there is on P15A/Kolkata, no mention was ever made of the trials actually taking place. None whatsoever.
> 
> Since you insisted that sea trials of the P15A had taken place, and that some faults were found during these trials which resulted in the commission date being pushed to 2014, I'm asking you to point me to an article that actually verify what you said. So far, I've seen nothing from you.
> 
> If the information regarding the trials is truly available on the Trishul blog, then link me to it. Just give me a link.
> 
> Easy peasy.



Man it wasn't said on any artricle in the blog,but in the question answer discussion under each article in some of the articles.If u bother to go through the Comments section of most recent 3 articles ull get it.Alternatively u can just narrate what i said in a comment of ur own and ask verification.
Easy peasy.

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## by78

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Man it wasn't said on any artricle in the blog,but in the question answer discussion under each article in some of the articles.If u bother to go through the Comments section of most recent 3 articles ull get it.Alternatively u can just narrate what i said in a comment of ur own and ask verification.
> Easy peasy.



Ah so basically the trials are just a hearsay, a mere speculation. You've read or heard about it from someone's comment, and based on that, you've been going around telling people that trials have taken place. 

Do you even know definitively that the trials have taken place?


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## AUSTERLITZ

by78 said:


> Ah so basically the trials are just a hearsay, a mere speculation. You've read or heard about it from someone's comment, and based on that, you've been going around telling people that trials have taken place.
> 
> Do you even know definitively that the trials have taken place?



Not someone's say,the blogger's say.And it was you who asked for 'unofficial sources'.

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## by78

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Not someone's say,the blogger's say.And it was you who asked for 'unofficial sources'.



I asked for 'official sources', and after much, much prodding, you admitted that there were none. You instead alluded to some nebulous articles, blogs, and other some such sources, none of which you could provide a link to or a reference of.

By the way, I've done a text search on Trishul for all P15A and Kolkata related entries along with comments going back one year, no one has ever mentioned that trials had actually taken place, only that it was predicated to take place in March, 2013. There was however a user asking the question as to why the trials are not covered in news media, to which the answer was: trials don't attract media attention, which is the international norm. Someone did ask why the commissioning was delayed until 2014, the answer was that the Indian navy lacks a suitable 'heavy torpedo' (wtf?). 

Maybe I missed something on Trishul? But I did look pretty hard.

By now, I'm inclined to think that the trials had never taken place, period.

Unless, of course, you have a source pointing to their existence. But I doubt you do.


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## AUSTERLITZ

by78 said:


> I asked for 'official sources', and after much, much prodding, you admitted that there were none. You instead alluded to some nebulous articles, blogs, and other some such sources, none of which you could provide a link to or a reference of.
> 
> By the way, I've done a text search on Trishul for all P15A and Kolkata related entries along with comments going back one year, no one has ever mentioned that trials had actually taken place, only that it was predicated to take place in March, 2013. There was however a user asking the question as to why the trials are not covered in news media, to which the answer was: trials don't attract media attention, which is the international norm. Someone did ask why the commissioning was delayed until 2014, the answer was that the Indian navy lacks a suitable 'heavy torpedo' (wtf?).
> 
> Maybe I missed something on Trishul? But I did look pretty hard.
> 
> By now, I'm inclined to think that the trials had never taken place, period.
> 
> Unless, of course, you have a source pointing to their existence. But I doubt you do.



Weapon woes put Indian Navy's modernisation programmes on hold | Mail Online
Lower part of article.
Only official source.Others are hearsay from bloggers and BR forumers.Sry but thats all u gotta deal with atm.

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## by78

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Weapon woes put Indian Navy's modernisation programmes on hold | Mail Online
> Lower part of article.
> Only official source.Others are hearsay from bloggers and BR forumers.Sry but thats all u gotta deal with atm.



Jesus freaking Christ. Finally a link!

Was that so hard?

Do you know more about the trials? What problems were detected?


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## AUSTERLITZ

by78 said:


> Jesus freaking Christ. Finally a link!
> 
> Was that so hard?
> 
> Do you know more about the trials? What problems were detected?



Don't know any details yet,and yeah link was difficult to find since i had forgotten where i had read it.
A possible defect could be in integration of different components and subsystems from varied OEMs,this type of problem arose in trials of original talwar class,when shtil missile initially didn't work due to difference in frequencies with Indian equipment.Fixed after initial problem.

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## by78

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Don't know any details yet,and yeah link was difficult to find since i had forgotten where i had read it.
> A possible defect could be in integration of different components and subsystems from varied OEMs,this type of problem arose in trials of original talwar class,when shtil missile initially didn't work due to difference in frequencies with Indian equipment.Fixed after initial problem.



Sounds about right. There is no way a lack of suitable torpedoes could delay the commissioning of the ship.


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## xuxu1457

by78 said:


> Sounds about right. There is no way a lack of suitable torpedoes could delay the commissioning of the ship.



Mate, there is a word for India navy destroyer, taking ten years to sharpen a "sword"

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## cnleio

Nishan_101 said:


> So how many DDGs Type 052D China is producing and where it will going to place in current and war Scenario as US is sending all of its moderin equipment to near Chinese countries for unknown reasons...??


Rumors said 8x 052D DDG plan, most new 052D will join PLAN East Sea Fleet to face the Western pacific including Japan islands, join PLAN South Sea Fleet to face SOC dispute.


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## cnleio

Official news, 2x new 052D DDG officially named N.o172 "KunMing" and N.o173 "ChangSha"

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## Genesis

cnleio said:


> Rumors said 8x 052D DDG plan, most new 052D will join PLAN East Sea Fleet to face the Western pacific including Japan islands, join PLAN South Sea Fleet to face SOC dispute.



I think the plan should be to construct two to three fleets to protect the coast, and provide support for another one to two strike force that consist of our latest techs and hopefully carriers and Nuke Subs capable of delivering nukes on moment's notice and strike anywhere in the Pacific, China seas, and Indian ocean. 

The marine corp should also be separate and be more powerful. With it's own equipment and own chain of command, under a joint Chief of staff system.

This sea fleets system seems old and doesn't work with the new ambitions of the Chinese navy, I mean from what I can see.


Sounds A tad American, but it does work and seems to be better than our current system.

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## Nishan_101

But will China counter threats from USA, NATO and India if a war erupts???


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## Beast

Nishan_101 said:


> But will China counter threats from USA, NATO and India if a war erupts???



Why would NATO join war against China? European are not stupid to fight a war for US and Japan.


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## cnleio

Official media news released a map to intorduce future China 052C/D 055 DDG building numbers.

1. China had finished 6x 052C DDGs including join PLAN and sea trial.
2. Now building another 4x 052D and 2x 052C DDGs plan, before 2014 to build 1x 055 and before 2016 to build another 6x 052D, total 13x 052C/D & 055 building plan
3. Future to build another 15x DDGs plan.

If this news is ture, i think it means before 2023 PLAN will own 35x APAR DDGs --- 052C/D and 055 class.

P.S right now i'm confused by 055 class DDG, somebody said a new designed 12,000ton APAR DDG ... wow but still no any pic leaked, i really wonder how it looks like ???


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## hk299792458

cnleio said:


> Official media news released a map to intorduce future China 052C/D 055 DDG building numbers.
> 
> 1. China had finished 6x 052C DDGs including join PLAN and sea trial.
> 2. Now building another 4x 052D and 2x 052C DDGs plan, before 2014 to build 1x 055 and before 2016 to build another 6x 052D, total 13x 052C/D & 055 building plan
> 3. Future to build another 15x DDGs plan.
> 
> If this news is ture, i think it means before 2023 PLAN will own 35x APAR DDGs --- 052C/D and 055 class.
> 
> P.S right now i'm confused by 055 class DDG, somebody said a new designed 12,000ton APAR DDG ... wow but still no any pic leaked, i really wonder how it looks like ???



Still some errors - 

* Type 052C will stop at 6th ship, not 2 more
* The first order of Type 052D concerns 3 ships, not 4

Except for Type 055, all others are speculation for the moment.

Henri K.

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## Akasa

hk299792458 said:


> Still some errors -
> 
> * Type 052C will stop at 6th ship, not 2 more
> * The first order of Type 052D concerns 3 ships, not 4
> 
> Except for Type 055, all others are speculation for the moment.
> 
> Henri K.



It is likely then that the 055 might start construction in 2013.


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## cirr

The *BIG DEAL* is that China's next generation of nuclear-powered submarines will employ a multiple-purpose VLS that's is very similar in design and function to the one used on 052D&#12290;

The system will allow the new sub to assume the dual roles of tactic and strategic strike&#65292;by having on one boat conventional or nuclear ballistic missiles&#65292;conventional or nuclear cruise missiles&#65292;anti-aircraft missiles&#12289;anti-ship missiles&#12289;anti-submarine missiles&#65292;totalling some 100 plus torpedoes&#12290;

That's SSN&#12289;SSGN and SSBN in one&#65292;3 in 1. 

The sub will launch 7-8 months as of today&#12290;





For illustration only&#12290;


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## cirr




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## monitor

How much this destroyer may cost ?


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## 帅的一匹

monitor said:


> How much this destroyer may cost ?


1.2 billion USD per

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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> 1.2 billion USD per



800 million USD is a more probable figure&#12290;


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## Akasa

cirr said:


> The *BIG DEAL* is that China's next generation of nuclear-powered submarines will employ a multiple-purpose VLS that's is very similar in design and function to the one used on 052D&#12290;
> 
> The system will allow the new sub to assume the dual roles of tactic and strategic strike,by having on one boat conventional or nuclear ballistic missiles,conventional or nuclear cruise missiles,anti-aircraft missiles&#12289;anti-ship missiles&#12289;anti-submarine missiles,totalling some 100 plus torpedoes&#12290;
> 
> That's SSN&#12289;SSGN and SSBN in one,3 in 1.
> 
> The sub will launch 7-8 months as of today&#12290;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For illustration only&#12290;



Please post where you got the information on the Type 096 from.


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## cnleio

cirr said:


> 800 million USD is a more probable figure&#12290;


Cheaper, 1.2billion - 1.3billion USD per. 
Local news ever reported 052C DDG built in China cost 1.1billion USD per, 052D carry new AESA radar and 64x new VLS will more expensive than original 052C.


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## cnleio

type 346A AESA radar

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## hk299792458

cnleio said:


> Cheaper, 1.2billion - 1.3billion USD per.
> Local news ever reported 052C DDG built in China cost 1.1billion USD per, 052D carry new AESA radar and 64x new VLS will more expensive than original 052C.



2 x Type 052C + 2 x Type 052B = 1.6 billions USD at that time.

Henri K.


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## cnleio

hk299792458 said:


> 2 x Type 052C + 2 x Type 052B = 1.6 billions USD at that time.
> 
> Henri K.


Really &#65311; 
Well China media news usually tell wrong. If truth that's much cheaper than Aegis DDG.
I checked 052C price by Baidu Wikipedia (just for reference), about 5billion RMB in China.


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## cnleio

Home pic of China 052C/D


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## xuxu1457

monitor said:


> How much this destroyer may cost ?


5 billion Yuan/one, 800million $

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## Akasa

cirr said:


>



To clear things up:

1. Is this supposed to be the VLS on the Type 096?

2. Where did you get all the information on the VLS of the submarine?

3. Is that information reliable?


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## cirr

D1

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## cnleio

Where is 052D's VHF radar? I see the radar platform still empty.






I wish they will install new meter-wave radar to replace old VHF radar on 052C, it looks too ugly !


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## cirr

cnleio said:


> Where is 052D's VHF radar? I see the radar platform still empty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish they will install new meter-wave radar to replace old VHF radar on 052C, it looks too ugly !



Aesthetics is not the issue here&#65292;cost-effectiveness and reliability are far more important&#12290;

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## China_Rising

Any new updates on the Type 055?


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## aliaselin

cnleio said:


> Really &#65311;
> Well China media news usually tell wrong. If truth that's much cheaper than Aegis DDG.
> I checked 052C price by Baidu Wikipedia (just for reference), about 5billion RMB in China.



He is right. At that time, this order (two 052B + two 052C) cost RMB 10 billion when dollar to RMB is about 1:7 to 1:8

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## by78

cirr said:


> D1



A very nice looking ship indeed.

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## cnleio




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## by78

Not sure if this has been posted before. 






She is a beauty.

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## cirr

D4 and D5&#65306;

ÌáÊ¾ÐÅÏ¢ - HSHÉÏº£·¢ÉÕÓÑÂÛÌ³ - Powered by Discuz!

See threads 6 and 8.


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## BDforever

cirr said:


> D4 and D5&#65306;
> 
> ÌáÊ¾ÐÅÏ¢ - HSHÉÏº£·¢ÉÕÓÑÂÛÌ³ - Powered by Discuz!
> 
> See threads 6 and 8.


anything new news about Bangladesh bro ?


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## Black Eagle 90

cnleio said:


>



How it can fight with:

*Alreigh Burke*


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## cirr

BDforever said:


> anything new news about Bangladesh bro ?



I will post them if and when there are news or new pics&#12290;

D4





D5

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## cnleio

Black Eagle 90 said:


> How it can fight with:
> 
> *Alreigh Burke*


7,000ton DDG, if compared with American "Burke-II/III" class it's a small Aegis DDG (half of military power). "Burke-II/III" can carry 100+ SM-2/3 missiles and many ESSM but 052D just max.64x missiles. A distinct advantage for 052D i think low price but China still can't afford many 052C/D as the same as US Navy's 60x "Burke-II" DDGs.

How 052D fight with Alreigh Burke ?
For single ship performance i think 052D still inferior to "Burke-II/III". Engine system, numbers of VLS unit and missiles less than "Burke-II/III". 052D&#8216;s 2x QC-280 gas turbines + 2x diesel engines < "Burke-II"'s 4x LM2500-30 gas turbines, China lack powerful and reliable "heart"(like LM2500-30) it limites DDG's size.

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## Black Eagle 90

cnleio said:


>



Pakistan should try to midify its missile to be used against Marine Targets as well.


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## nomi007



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## Fsjal

nomi007 said:


>


This looks like and older one, since the destroyer will be using Type 730.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> 7,000ton DDG, if compared with American "Burke-II/III" class it's a small Aegis DDG (half of military power). "Burke-II/III" can carry 100+ SM-2/3 missiles and many ESSM but 052D just max.64x missiles. A distinct advantage for 052D i think low price but China still can't afford many 052C/D as the same as US Navy's 60x "Burke-II" DDGs.
> 
> How 052D fight with Alreigh Burke ?
> For single ship performance i think 052D still inferior to "Burke-II/III". Engine system, numbers of VLS unit and missiles less than "Burke-II/III". 052D&#8216;s 2x QC-280 gas turbines + 2x diesel engines < "Burke-II"'s 4x LM2500-30 gas turbines, China lack powerful and reliable "heart"(like LM2500-30) it limites DDG's size.



The Type 052D is clearly inferior to the Flight III model which has *96 MK-57 VLS* units and *4 x AN/SPY-3 AESA radars*.

But it is not necessarily inferior to the current Flight IIA model which has *96 old MK-41 VLS* units and *4 x AN/SPY-1D PESA radars*.

Overall, the Type 052D is about 2/3 firepower of the Flight III model, and you have to remember that the lead ship of the Flight III model won't ready until 2023.

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## by78

Just look at the size of that panel.

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## by78



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## East Asia United

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 052D is clearly inferior to the Flight III model which has *96 MK-57 VLS* units and *4 x AN/SPY-3 AESA radars*.
> 
> But it is not necessarily inferior to the current Flight IIA model which has *96 old MK-41 VLS* units and *4 x AN/SPY-1D PESA radars*.
> 
> Overall, the Type 052D is about 2/3 firepower of the Flight III model, and you have to remember that the lead ship of the Flight III model won't ready until 2023.



Whatever comes after the rumored Type 055 will be superior to the Flight III model... Do you agree?

When do you think the Type 055 itself will go into service btw? Before 2020?

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## ChineseTiger1986

East Asia United said:


> Whatever comes after the rumored Type 055 will be superior to the Flight III model... Do you agree?
> 
> When do you think the Type 055 itself will go into service btw? Before 2020?



The Type 055 will basically use the same level of technology as the Flight III model, but it will be a bit larger, thus it is superior.

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## East Asia United

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 055 will basically use the same level of technology as the Flight III model, but it will be a bit larger, thus it is superior.



So you subscribe to the belief that it is the 12,000t model, with 128 VLS?

I've heard this rumor, and it's hopefully going to come true, but in looking at the past vessels the PLA has launched, it doesn't seem to be the way they operate. There seems to be only a marginal increase in displacement for every new type built. Do you know if there is a reason why the Type 055 will be any different.

BTW, if what that Henri K guy (not sure his name; I forgot) says ends up being accurate, and he apparently has good connections because he has a good track record, then the PLA will actually be commissioning a class superior to anything the US has in store!! That is of course until the Zumwalt-class comes along (though due to US financial meltdown there will only be three!!).

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## BRASSNAUTILUS

FLIGHT III will have 6 meter arrays. That casing, judging by the stanchions (regularly 1.1m tall) is bit over 4 meters. 
Bigger ships haul bigger radars, and size does matter. China had been needing better muscles...


by78 said:


> Just look at the size of that panel.


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## by78

BRASSNAUTILUS said:


> FLIGHT III will have 6 meter arrays. That casing, judging by the stanchions (regularly 1.1m tall) is bit over 4 meters.
> Bigger ships haul bigger radars, and size does matter. China had been needing better muscles...



I doubt the flight III will happen. There won't be money for it. At this rate, Obama will have wrecked the economy by then.


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## Genesis

by78 said:


> I doubt the flight III will happen. There won't be money for it. At this rate, Obama will have wrecked the economy by then.



It'll happen, if nothing else america wants the advantage on china. Whether it will still be able to maintain it in a decade is debatable. But the americans will try.

Besides, it's a ship, not a planet. American budget can accomadate a few billion dollars here and there.

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## by78

Genesis said:


> It'll happen, if nothing else america wants the advantage on china. Whether it will still be able to maintain it in a decade is debatable. But the americans will try.
> 
> Besides, it's a ship, not a planet. American budget can accomadate a few billion dollars here and there.



I was ranting. 

But on a more serious note, flight III might not happen for other, more technical reasons. I read an article two weeks ago that there are some rumblings that Navy should scrap flight III and replace it with a clean design. If I recall correctly, Arleigh Burke's hull design doesn't give enough room for future upgrades and increasing demands for power. The article talked about scaling down technologies from DDG-1000, etc.

Then again, it could all just be nothing.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

by78 said:


> I doubt the flight III will happen. There won't be money for it. At this rate, Obama will have wrecked the economy by then.



They will try to delay the Flight III model by 2023.


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## by78

High-rez photo. Open in new tab or window to see in full resolution.

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## 帅的一匹

by78 said:


> High-rez photo. Open in new tab or window to see in full resolution.


We need at leat 50 pops of 8000 tons plus DDG in the future, make sure we have a say in SCS and east sea.

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## Lightningbolt

We need more than 50. 

We need 80 cruisers and destroyers.

Dozens of these type 052D and type 055 will make the Yankees think twice before they ever mess with us.

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## english_man

Lightningbolt said:


> We need more than 50.
> 
> We need 80 cruisers and destroyers.
> 
> Dozens of these type 052D and type 055 will make the Yankees think twice before they ever mess with us.



Thats a lot of Destroyers, and would be a massive investment for the Chinese goverment.

I do think, that in the second half of this decade 2015-2020, we shall see the PLAN concentrating on larger classes of warship.

I do expect to see a decent number of 052D's and the rumoured 055's being built............but not the numbers you mention, i mean at present there is really only one shipyard capable of building these high end platforms and that is JN.

The low end of the fleet so far has been taken care of with 022 patrol boats, currently 056 Corvettes and the 054A Frigates.

So now the PLAN is paying attention to the high end of the fleet, currently building Destroyers, after having to wait a few years for the JN shipyard to be relocated.

Next step to build some Carriers, Helicopter ships, and continue to improve its submarine fleet, to achieve a well balanced modern fleet!

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## Oldman1

East Asia United said:


> So you subscribe to the belief that it is the 12,000t model, with 128 VLS?
> 
> I've heard this rumor, and it's hopefully going to come true, but in looking at the past vessels the PLA has launched, it doesn't seem to be the way they operate. There seems to be only a marginal increase in displacement for every new type built. Do you know if there is a reason why the Type 055 will be any different.
> 
> BTW, if what that Henri K guy (not sure his name; I forgot) says ends up being accurate, and he apparently has good connections because he has a good track record, then the PLA will actually be commissioning a class superior to anything the US has in store!! That is of course until the Zumwalt-class comes along (though due to US financial meltdown there will only be three!!).



No its not the same level of technology since we been using this for decades. Same as China's aircraft carrier when we had this for almost a century.


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## aliaselin

Try it. 151 to be commisioned

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## aliaselin

Sea trial of 052D

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## Zarvan

What is the difference between Frigate and Destroyer ?


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## cirr

wow&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;D1 in sea trials&#65306;






This came a lot earlier than I expected&#12290;

It is highly possible&#65292;even probable&#65292;that D4 will be lauched before the end of 2013&#12290;

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## cnleio

aliaselin said:


> Sea trial of 052D



Not 100% finished yet, lack a millimeter wave radar.

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## cnleio

Lightningbolt said:


> We need more than 50.
> 
> We need 80 cruisers and destroyers.
> 
> Dozens of these type 052D and type 055 will make the Yankees think twice before they ever mess with us.


Let me count the cost. One 052C cost 800million $, one 052D maybe 1billion $, one 055 maybe 1.5billion $(Guess), so 50x 052C/D + 30x 055 ships totally cost 95billion ~ 100billion $$$. Well today China military expenditure about 100+ billion $$$, it means we have enough funds to afford huge number of cruisers and destroyers, the cost also don't need to pay at a time.


The only problem is, the quickest speed of building one 052C/D destroyer spend 1 year and need another 1~1.5 year sea trial before join PLAN. I think even mass production still need at least 2 years a new ship can serve in Navy, even different China shipyards can build together we only can provide at most 4x destroyers at the same time (Only ShangHai and DaLian shipyard) 80x cruisers and destroyers will spend 50~60 years time.

after >50 years we might drive STARSHIP at that time. I personally think the reasonable number is 30+x 052C/D and 055, then invest other vehicle development.

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## aliaselin

Zarvan said:


> What is the difference between Frigate and Destroyer ?



Destroyer is larger and stronger. As a matter of fact there is no clear difference between them in this age.

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## nomi007




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## skyknight

What a damn beautiful vessel&#65281;
It reminds me the days when we only had 052s and a bunch of old 051s,
I was so frustrated and pessimistic every time I saw American Burke and Japanese Kongou,
but Now

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## Lightningbolt

cnleio said:


> Let me count the cost. One 052C cost 800million $, one 052D maybe 1billion $, one 055 maybe 1.5billion $(Guess), so 50x 052C/D + 30x 055 ships totally cost 95billion ~ 100billion $$$. Well today China military expenditure about 100+ billion $$$, it means we have enough funds to afford huge number of cruisers and destroyers, the cost also don't need to pay at a time.
> 
> 
> The only problem is, the quickest speed of building one 052C/D destroyer spend 1 year and need another 1~1.5 year sea trial before join PLAN. I think even mass production still need at least 2 years a new ship can serve in Navy, even different China shipyards can build together we only can provide at most 4x destroyers at the same time (Only ShangHai and DaLian shipyard) 80x cruisers and destroyers will spend 50~60 years time.
> 
> after >50 years we might drive STARSHIP at that time. I personally think the reasonable number is 30+x 052C/D and 055, then invest other vehicle development.



It's not going to take 50 years. 
WTF!


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## cnleio

Lightningbolt said:


> It's not going to take 50 years.
> WTF!


What do u think how many 052C/D we can build once time ? Docks r limited in ShangHai and DaLian shipyard, and other China shipyard lacks experince and technology to build large 052C/D DDG they only build 054A and 056 FFG.


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## 帅的一匹

cnleio said:


> What do u think how many 052C/D we can build once time ? Docks r limited in ShangHai and DaLian shipyard, and other China shipyard lacks experince and technology to build large 052C/D DDG they only build 054A and 056 FFG.



I think Guang Zhou Huang Pu will build 052D in the future?


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## hurt

No way,It's too small


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## 帅的一匹

hurt said:


> No way,It's too small



Huang Pu should expand its premise and facility as Jiangnan does, we need at least three shipyard to produce DDG at the same time.


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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> I think Guang Zhou Huang Pu will build 052D in the future?



DL&#65292;taking up the slack by JN&#12290;

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## xuxu1457

aliaselin said:


> Sea trial of 052D





cirr said:


> wow&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;D1 in sea trials&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This came a lot earlier than I expected&#12290;
> 
> It is highly possible&#65292;even probable&#65292;that D4 will be lauched before the end of 2013&#12290;


Earlier than I expected too, the Construction speed really......


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## 帅的一匹

cnleio said:


> What do u think how many 052C/D we can build once time ? Docks r limited in ShangHai and DaLian shipyard, and other China shipyard lacks experince and technology to build large 052C/D DDG they only build 054A and 056 FFG.


I think both Wuhan, Huang pu, Jiangnan, Dalian should have the ability to build DDG. It's will be unthinkable if Dalian and Jiangnan under saturation tomahawk attack by our enemy in the war, we need to expand the capacity immediately. We should now fully prepare ourself for the regional conflict with Japan and USA, there is not much time left to squander.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Does anyone know that when the construction of the Type 052D gonna be started in the Dalian Shipyard?

I got penalized for asking that question on the CD forum.


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## cirr

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Does anyone know that when the construction of the Type 052D gonna be started in the Dalian Shipyard?
> 
> I got penalized for asking that question on the CD forum.



when JN shifts its main attention to the building of 055s&#65292;which could be any time soon&#65311;


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## Fsjal

Too bad only 8 Type 52D destroyers have been planned. If Yantai and Dalian Shipyard builds more drydocks, then there could be up to 16 Type 052D destroyers, which China needs.


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## ChineseTiger1986

cirr said:


> when JN shifts its main attention to the building of 055s&#65292;which could be any time soon&#65311;



Will they still have the production capability left after starting to build the aircraft carrier?



Fsjal said:


> Too bad only 8 Type 52D destroyers have been planned. If Yantai and Dalian Shipyard builds more drydocks, then there could be up to 16 Type 052D destroyers, which China needs.



Because China will go after the larger Type 055.

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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because China will go after the larger Type 055.





> &#25454;&#24713;&#65292;&#22806;&#22269;&#23186;&#20307;&#35748;&#20026;&#65292;&#20013;&#22269;&#28023;&#20891;&#20849;&#24314;&#36896;&#20102;6&#33368;052C&#23548;&#24377;&#39537;&#36880;&#33328;&#65292;&#20854;&#20013;&#21069;&#20004;&#33368;&#22312;&#21335;&#28023;&#33328;&#38431;&#26381;&#24441;&#65292;&#32780;&#26368;&#26032;&#24314;&#36896;&#30340;&#22235;&#33368;&#23558;&#35013;&#22791;&#28023;&#20891;&#19996;&#28023;&#33328;&#38431;&#65292;&#20854;&#20013;&#33335;&#21495;150,151&#30340;&#20004;&#33328;&#24050;&#32463;&#21152;&#20837;&#19996;&#28023;&#33328;&#38431;&#26381;&#24441;&#65292;&#32780;5&#21495;&#33328;&#65292;6&#21495;&#33328;&#27491;&#22312;&#33337;&#21378;&#36827;&#34892;&#26368;&#21518;&#30340;&#28023;&#35797;&#65292;&#39044;&#35745;&#22312;&#26410;&#26469;10&#20010;&#26376;&#20869;&#20132;&#20184;&#37096;&#38431;&#12290;
> 
> &#25454;&#24713;&#65292;&#35813;&#33337;&#21378;&#36824;&#27491;&#22312;&#24314;&#36896;1.2&#19975;&#21544;&#32423;&#22823;&#22411;&#28023;&#35686;&#33337;&#65292;&#24182;&#22312;&#26410;&#26469;&#25968;&#20010;&#26376;&#20869;&#24320;&#24037;&#24314;&#36896;&#19968;&#33368;1.2&#19975;&#21544;&#32423;&#30340;055&#22411;&#22823;&#22411;&#23548;&#24377;&#39537;&#36880;&#33328;&#12290;&#25454;&#31216;&#65292;&#35813;&#33328;&#20026;&#20013;&#22269;&#28023;&#20891;&#31532;&#22235;&#20195;&#23548;&#24377;&#39537;&#36880;&#33328;&#65292;&#20855;&#26377;&#21010;&#26102;&#20195;&#24847;&#20041;&#12290;



12,000ton 055 class DDG will 1st built in ShangHai shipyard.


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## cnleio

Top view pics, 052D vs 052C DDG

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## cirr

cnleio said:


> Top view pics, 052D vs 052C DDG



They could have added 8X2 more VLS cells on 052D the way 052C did&#12290;

But since Type 055 is just around the corner&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;


----------



## 帅的一匹

cirr said:


> They could have added 8X2 more VLS cells on 052D the way 052C did&#12290;
> 
> But since Type 055 is just around the corner&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;


We should build at least 50 pops of these weapons in the coming 10 years. Image if We deploy 10 DDG along the Syria coastal line.

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> They could have added 8X2 more VLS cells on 052D the way 052C did&#12290;
> 
> But since Type 055 is just around the corner&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;



The Type 055 is rumored to begin construction in a few months.


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## 帅的一匹

How many VLS units that 055DDG gonna carry?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

wanglaokan said:


> How many VLS units that 055DDG gonna carry?



128 largest VLS units.

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## nomi007




----------



## cirr

*Latest PLA navy destroyer completes sea trial*

By Chen Boyuan 

China.org.cn, September 12, 2013

The Chinese navy's latest 052D-class destroyer was recently unveiled to the public when a set of photos online showed its sea trial at the mouth of the Huangpu River, causing a further wave of sensation following the ship's launch last year.

Yang Yujun, spokesperson for China's Ministry of National Defense, said: "There is nothing to be surprised about. Commissioning ships and aircraft is common in the military. It is not worth excessive interpretation."

The vessel is the first of China's 052D-class destroyers. It is equipped with the world's most advanced anti-aircraft system &#8211; the second-generation of what is called the Chinese Aegis.

The U.S. media claimed that the 052D would even be equipped with China's own Donghai-10 cruise missiles, making the destroyer the first-ever surface vessel in the PLA navy capable of such capability.

Donghai-10 missiles used to be exclusive to China's nuclear-powered 093-class hunter-killer submarines. They reportedly have an effective range of 1,500-2,500 KM, and are said to be even stronger than the U.S. Tomahawks.

Canadian-based Kanwa Asian Defence Monthly reported that the 052D was modified based on the 052C-class destroyer, which was launched in 2003. As of today, three 052D ships have been launched from Jiangnan Shipyard.

The online photos show that the 052D has a similar hull layout to its predecessor, the 052C, and it looks like the U.S Navy's Arleigh Burke-class destroyers. On the ship's bridge, four plates of phased array radar antennas replaced the 052C's arc-shape radar, which is the most striking difference from the earlier model.

A set of missile vertical launching systems (VLS) have been installed on the front and rear decks of the 052D. The VLS features a square-mouth launcher &#8211; modified from the earlier round-shape &#8211; which looks like a chocolate bar. The system on the 052D bears a striking resemblance to the MK41 VLS on the U.S. Aegis warships. In addition, the 052D now has 64 VLS units, compared to the 48 on the earlier model. 

A Russian military news website wrote that the upgraded VLS "shows the versatility of PLA technology &#8211; the system is capable of launching various types of missiles in different situations."

The report also said that up to four smaller-sized missiles could fit into each launch tube, giving the vessel greater flexibility and more fire power during combat. According to the report, the 052D's VLS supports both cold and hot launches, a feature which is no warships anywhere currently possess.

On top of the destroyer's helicopter apron, a 24-unit Haihongqi-10 short-range anti-aircraft missile system has replaced the old 7-unit 30mm multi-barrel guns for last-minute close-range defense. This upgrade extends the vessel's capability to defend against sea-skimming anti-ship missiles to 10 km.

In addition, 052D's weapon system features a 130mm/70 caliber stealth gun. Its unusual shape aroused the curiosity of online fans.

These new features enable 052D-class ships to engage in various kinds of warfare, including anti-aircraft, anti-submarine, anti-surface vessel and anti-ground target missions, with capabilities similar to the U.S. Navy's Ticonderoga-class cruisers and Arleigh Burke-class destroyers.

In an interview with China Central Television, military expert Yin Zhuo said that 052D could be used in an aircraft carrier battle group, a statement supported by Prof. Li Li from the National Defense University of the People's Liberation Army.

It is likely that the 052D-class destroyers will form a shield, 200km in radius, to protect China's future Liaoning aircraft carrier battle group from aerial enemy attacks.

The sea trial of the 052D-class destroyer has made it clear that the vessel will join the Liaoning aircraft carrier's attack missions, while protecting the battle group mostly from enemy air strikes.

Latest PLA navy destroyer completes sea trial- China.org.cn

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## Fsjal

wanglaokan said:


> We should build at least 50 pops of these weapons in the coming 10 years. Image if We deploy 10 DDG along the Syria coastal line.



I think China only needs 20-30. 

Anyway, sending 10 of these bad boys should scare NATO.


----------



## nomi007

close look

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## english_man

From latest images at JN shipyard..........it appears that the 4th 052C is now having a final touch up, after recent sea trials, as the pennant number '151' has now been added to the hull. I imagine commissioning of the ship, is now not that far away.

So.............that will mean the PLAN has the original 2 AEGIS Destroyers type 052C numbers 170 & 171

2 new improved 052C+ numbers 150 & 151

a further 2 052C+ which are nearly complete

3 type 052D's launched, 1 under going sea trials

a 4th type 052D in a hallway being assembled..........and what appears to be modules for a 5th 052D outside.

Now..........we all wait for the proposed start of build for China's new super 12,000 ton Destroyer the 055!

Things seem to be coming along nicely!


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## Nexus

can t-55 class destroyers beat usa's aegis destroyers


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## cirr

english_man said:


> From latest images at JN shipyard..........it appears that the 4th 052C is now having a final touch up, after recent sea trials, as the pennant number '151' has now been added to the hull. I imagine commissioning of the ship, is now not that far away.
> 
> So.............that will mean the PLAN has the original 2 AEGIS Destroyers type 052C numbers 170 & 171
> 
> 2 new improved 052C+ numbers 150 & 151
> 
> a further 2 052C+ which are nearly complete
> 
> 3 type 052D's launched, 1 under going sea trials
> 
> a 4th type 052D in a hallway being assembled..........and what appears to be modules for a 5th 052D outside.
> 
> Now..........we all wait for the proposed start of build for China's new super 12,000 ton Destroyer the 055!
> 
> Things seem to be coming along nicely!



The climax of naval build-up is yet to come in 2-3 years when CVs&#65292;LHDs&#12289;50000-ton combat support ships&#12289;055 DDGs&#65292;stealth FFGs&#65292;new nuclear-subs&#65288;SSN and SSBN&#65289;&#12289;5th generation CV-borne fighter jets etc will roll off the production lines like hotcakes&#12290;

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## cirr

D1 seen here for her 2nd sea trial&#65306;

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> The climax of naval build-up is yet to come in 2-3 years when CVs&#65292;LHDs&#12289;50000-ton combat support ships&#12289;055 DDGs&#65292;stealth FFGs&#65292;new nuclear-subs&#65288;SSN and SSBN&#65289;&#12289;5th generation CV-borne fighter jets etc will roll off the production lines like hotcakes&#12290;



What happened to your earlier statement that the SSN has already been launched?


----------



## cirr

SinoSoldier said:


> What happened to your earlier statement that the SSN has already been launched?



Nothing&#12290;My statement still stands&#12290;


----------



## Akasa

cirr said:


> Nothing&#12290;My statement still stands&#12290;



May we ask where and when you got this rather secretive and classified information?


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## Zarvan

cirr said:


> Nothing&#12290;My statement still stands&#12290;


How many cruise missiles this destroyer can carry ?


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## Akasa

Zarvan said:


> How many cruise missiles this destroyer can carry ?



max. sixty-four


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## Zarvan

SinoSoldier said:


> max. sixty-four



That is really good and by the way and what are the ranges of cruise missiles which China has and which one is of longest range


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## Akasa

Zarvan said:


> That is really good and by the way and what are the ranges of cruise missiles which China has and which one is of longest range



The new CJ-20 is rumored at 3000 km while the CJ-10 varies between 2000 km and 2500 km.

Others:
YJ-62: 400 km
CM602G: 290 km
CM802AKG: 290 km

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## Fsjal

SinoSoldier said:


> max. sixty-four



I think he means cruise missiles only. Altogether, the destroyer carries 64. But let's look at Type 052C. The 052C carries 8 YJ-83 AShM. It can replace the AShM with 8 YJ-64/CJ-10 cruise missiles. By the looks of 052D, 8 VLS cells would be used for this. As a result, the 052D could carry 56 SAM, either HQ-9 or something new. Anyway, I could be wrong. This is just a silly theory I made when I saw the Type 052D.

But wait, if the 052C carries 48 SAM, then this could be the same for this destroyer. Look at the 052B, it carries 16 AShM. But it carries 48 SAM. This means the 052D carries 16 AShM.


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## Akasa

Fsjal said:


> I think he means cruise missiles only. Altogether, the destroyer carries 64. But let's look at Type 052C. The 052C carries 8 YJ-83 AShM. It can replace the AShM with 8 YJ-64/CJ-10 cruise missiles. By the looks of 052D, 8 VLS cells would be used for this. As a result, the 052D could carry 56 SAM, either HQ-9 or something new. Anyway, I could be wrong. This is just a silly theory I made when I saw the Type 052D.
> 
> But wait, if the 052C carries 48 SAM, then this could be the same for this destroyer. Look at the 052B, it carries 16 AShM. But it carries 48 SAM. This means the 052D carries 16 AShM.



It probably doesn't carry a full load on combat missions, but theoretically it can carry 64 LACM.

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## cirr

DDG 151 &#8220;Zhengzhou&#8221; induction imminent&#65306;

ä¸*ç§èµè° ---â151è°âå·å·åºå,âä¸åå®¢âæå½¹å¨å³.å¨è§åº¦å±ç¤º151è°_è§é¢å¨çº¿è§ç - 56.com


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## cirr



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## Superboy

Are there no box launchers on Type 052D? Only VLS?


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## 帅的一匹

Superboy said:


> Are there no box launchers on Type 052D? Only VLS?



Anti-ship missiles are installed in VLS on type 052D, that's why you can't see any box launchers.

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## hk299792458

Superboy said:


> Are there no box launchers on Type 052D? Only VLS?



The 8 x *YJ-18A* are now set in the 8 tubes in the front 32-cells VLS.

Henri K.

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## cirr

*D1*













Let&#8216;s roll out as many this baby as possbile and in the shortest time possible before getting on with Type 055.

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## hk299792458

cirr said:


> Let&#8216;s roll out as many this baby as possbile and in the shortest time possible before getting on with Type 055.



Chinese navy has or is building now 6 x *Type 052C* and at least 5 x *Type 052D*, all visible from photos, the role of 12 000t class *Type 055* will be very interesting for observation.

Henri K.

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## Genesis

hk299792458 said:


> Chinese navy has or is building now 6 x *Type 052C* and at least 5 x *Type 052D*, all visible from photos, the role of 12 000t class *Type 055* will be very interesting for observation.
> 
> Henri K.



With all the attention on the Type 52D and on the future, the Type 55. I think building a few cruisers could be fun. OR 'battlecruiser.' Could be something fun. Definately has the intimidation factor, which is what we need, since we probably won't be in a actual naval war against anyone anytime soon.

On the off chance we do fight, our coast guard would probably be enough.


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## Beast

When are they going to install the antenna? Once it installed, its good to go and commission it. I will say the pace of commissioning Type 052D will be much faster than 052C as its more capable. PLAN shall liked to make as many of it as possible.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The AESA panels are huge, it looks no smaller than the AN/SPY-3.

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## nomi007




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## hk299792458

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The AESA panels are huge, it looks no smaller than the AN/SPY-3.



4045 T/R per face, it could simply not be smaller...



Beast said:


> When are they going to install the antenna? Once it installed, its good to go and commission it. I will say the pace of commissioning Type 052D will be much faster than 052C as its more capable. PLAN shall liked to make as many of it as possible.





This is just the first sea trial for propulsion system...

If we refer to the Type 052C program, the sea trial would last for 18 to 24 months.

Henri K.

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## Beast

hk299792458 said:


> This is just the first sea trial for propulsion system...
> 
> If we refer to the Type 052C program, the sea trial would last for 10 to 14 months.
> 
> Henri K.



I don't think the pace of Type 052C shall be the benchmark for Type 052D. PLAN is not fully satisfy with Type 052C due to the obsolete VLS which cannot house different type of missiles. That is why it was stopped at 6 build. Precisely, it the reason it so slow in commission. While Type 052D is fully committed by PLAN due to the advance VLS module which can house many type of missiles. It will be pump out like Type 054A and as fast as it.

Even Type054A VLS is more modern than Type 052C VLS as its capable of fitting ASROC and SAM.


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## hk299792458

Beast said:


> I don't think the pace of Type 052C shall be the benchmark for Type 052D. PLAN is not fully satisfy with Type 052C due to the obsolete VLS which cannot house different type of missiles. That is why it was stopped at 6 build. Precisely, it the reason it so slow in commission. While Type 052D is fully committed by PLAN due to the advance VLS module which can house many type of missiles. It will be pump out like Type 054A and as fast as it.
> 
> Even Type054A VLS is more modern than Type 052C VLS as its capable of fitting ASROC and SAM.



Sea trial program, or any test flight or ground trial, follows a strictly defined process. It's not because one says we need to commission in 3 months that we can really do it.

If you refer to my personal table on Type 054A achievement, you can see that the sea trial last from around 280 days (9 months) to 480 days (16 months), the last 4 boats are stabilized to 360 days (12 months), and this is for a 4000t-class ship.






Now if you have a look on the same table I made for Type 052C, I would say Chinese shipyard and navy guys work already quite fast, around 15 months with the imported propulsion système for the forst 2 boats, and around 24 months with the new propulsion système from 150 and on.






Don't forget that Type 052D are using exactly the same propulsion systems as the last 4 Type 052C, you can't expect going faster for Type 052D in that case.

Sea trial of the last 2 Type 052C and the Type 052D could probably decrease to 18 months but not sure. You won't be able to go down more for this 6000t-class ship.

If you have a look on FREMM which is a 6000t-class ship as well, you will find something similar.

Wish is one thing, physic rule is an another. 

Henri K.

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## english_man

Exactly............as armchair admirals, enthusiasts are keen to see ships join the fleet quickly!

BUT.......the reality is these ships are huge, and have many very complex machine and electronic systems which need to be installed and tested.
Then the ship needs a long time at sea for sea trials to try everything out...........and also for the crew to become familiar with the ship and its systems.
Then once a ship has had its final paint job, and pennant number, then it will be commissioned.

Anyway.........as 'HK' has pointed out. If you compare build times of the 052C's, the Chinese still manage to complete there vessels quicker than equivalent ships in other navies.

One other thing, i don't beleive the 052C is a dissapointment to the PLAN, in fact quite the opposite.

Yes, the vessels dont have the flexibility of the 052D with its multi-type missile VLS, and later generation Aegis systems......but the 052C was the top vessel in the PLAN inventory upto then, and the later 4 052C's being some 10 years newer than the original 2 in class, would of had quite some improvements made to them.

When JN shipyard, after its relocation was complete............the PLAN got to work straight away with constructing a new batch of 052C's.
If the PLAN believed the 052C was not upto scratch, they could of not built further vessels, and waited 2 years for when they were ready to build 052D's...............right?

btw: has the 4th 052C actually been commissioned yet?

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## hk299792458

english_man said:


> Exactly............as armchair admirals, enthusiasts are keen to see ships join the fleet quickly!
> 
> BUT.......the reality is these ships are huge, and have many very complex machine and electronic systems which need to be installed and tested.
> Then the ship needs a long time at sea for sea trials to try everything out...........and also for the crew to become familiar with the ship and its systems.
> Then once a ship has had its final paint job, and pennant number, then it will be commissioned.
> 
> Anyway.........as 'HK' has pointed out. If you compare build times of the 052C's, the Chinese still manage to complete there vessels quicker than equivalent ships in other navies.
> 
> One other thing, i don't beleive the 052C is a dissapointment to the PLAN, in fact quite the opposite.
> 
> Yes, the vessels dont have the flexibility of the 052D with its multi-type missile VLS, and later generation Aegis systems......but the 052C was the top vessel in the PLAN inventory upto then, and the later 4 052C's being some 10 years newer than the original 2 in class, would of had quite some improvements made to them.
> 
> When JN shipyard, after its relocation was complete............the PLAN got to work straight away with constructing a new batch of 052C's.
> If the PLAN believed the 052C was not upto scratch, they could of not built further vessels, and waited 2 years for when they were ready to build 052D's...............right?
> 
> btw: has the 4th 052C actually been commissioned yet?



Fully agreed.

However the 6th Type 052C will be the last one from this class.

For the 4th Type 052C, no, I don't think so.

Henri K.

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## english_man

Oh yes..........the 6th 052C is the last in that class.

Now we wait to see how many 052D's are built.

Interestingly............reading on the web.........the US considers the 052D to be still quite some way behind its 'Arleigh Burke' class Destroyers....umm i'am not so sure.........as no one really knows.

If you go to the Chinese 81 military site......the Chinese claim that the 052D is actually far more advanced than people in general think, and there is quite some discussion there on the capability of the radar systems compared to the 'AB's' and also they claim the 052D's even have some advantages over the 'Sampson' radar as fitted to the British type 45 class!

Anyway.....what i hope to see in the near future, is if the type 055 Destroyer/Cruiser class emerges.........because we know the next generation Chinese major surface combatant, should be one hell of a ship!

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## UKBengali

english_man said:


> Oh yes..........the 6th 052C is the last in that class.
> 
> Now we wait to see how many 052D's are built.
> 
> Interestingly............reading on the web.........the US considers the 052D to be still quite some way behind its 'Arleigh Burke' class Destroyers....umm i'am not so sure.........as no one really knows.
> 
> If you go to the Chinese 81 military site......the Chinese claim that the 052D is actually far more advanced than people in general think, and there is quite some discussion there on the capability of the radar systems compared to the 'AB's' and also they claim the 052D's even have some advantages over the 'Sampson' radar as fitted to the British type 45 class!
> 
> Anyway.....what i hope to see in the near future, is if the type 055 Destroyer/Cruiser class emerges.........because we know the next generation Chinese major surface combatant, should be one hell of a ship!



The truth is that no-one really knows on the capabilities of the Type-052D.

You can make a guess as to the level that the Chinese are at least at by the fact that they no longer buy ships from the Russians. If the Type-052C was not at least comparable to Russian ships then they would logically still buy from the Russians.

My guess if that the Type-05D is comparable to the UK Type-045 and the latter variants of the US Arleigh Burke but slightly inferior to them. The reason is that the Chinese had a whole decade to improve on the Type-052C and now have a lot of knowledge on AESA radars.

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## MoeRabbit

Compared with 052C,052D is better looking!

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## hk299792458

UKBengali said:


> The truth is that no-one really knows on the capabilities of the Type-052D.
> 
> You can make a guess as to the level that the Chinese are at least at by the fact that they no longer buy ships from the Russians. If the Type-052C was not at least comparable to Russian ships then they would logically still buy from the Russians.
> 
> My guess if that the Type-05D is comparable to the UK Type-045 and the latter variants of the US Arleigh Burke but slightly inferior to them. The reason is that the Chinese had a whole decade to improve on the Type-052C and now have a lot of knowledge on AESA radars.



It makes no sense to say "inferior". A knife can kill, a gun as well, what is inferior to what? It depends on how you use it, under which context, and for what.

We're no longer in Middle ages, no more 1 vs 1 or Knight vs Knight. Translated to our day, no war is carried out by component vs component, but global system vs global system.

We can't say this ship is inferior to an another because one has less VLS, one has a radar with less range...etc. For example, more VLS is good? What if you don't have enough fire cannel to guide? What if you can't even see you target because the datalink is jammed or satellite killed?

In battlefield, everything can happen. A more "advanced" weapon, in must of the case, will request less "constraint" or easilier use condition, and will give you more chance to survive, or to reach your tactical or strategic goal, that's all.

An old weapon used in the right way and under good condition could be 100 times more efficient than highly sophisticated weapon.

Henri K.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The Type 052D will be built by two shipyards, and i am confident that we won't see D5 in the JN shipyard, right after D4, it gonna jump to the Type 055.

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## Superboy

Type 052D, ah, the last of the Type 052 platform dating back to the early 90s. Throughout its life, the Type 052 platform has grown larger and more advanced. Beam increased from 16 meters to 18 meters. Tonnage increased from 4,800 tons to 7,500 tons. Type 055 likely starts off with a beam of over 21 meters.

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## MoeRabbit

hk299792458 said:


> It makes no sense to say "inferior". A knife can kill, a gun as well, what is inferior to what? It depends on how you use it, under which context, and for what.
> 
> We're no longer in Middle ages, no more 1 vs 1 or Knight vs Knight. Translated to our day, no war is carried out by component vs component, but global system vs global system.
> 
> We can't say this ship is inferior to an another because one has less VLS, one has a radar with less range...etc. For example, more VLS is good? What if you don't have enough fire cannel to guide? What if you can't even see you target because the datalink is jammed or satellite killed?
> 
> In battlefield, everything can happen. A more "advanced" weapon, in must of the case, will request less "constraint" or easilier use condition, and will give you more chance to survive, or to reach your tactical or strategic goal, that's all.
> 
> An old weapon used in the right way and under good condition could be 100 times more efficient than highly sophisticated weapon.
> 
> Henri K.


I quite agree with you on this point.

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## english_man

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 052D will be built by two shipyards, and i am confident that we won't see D5 in the JN shipyard, right after D4, it gonna jump to the Type 055.



Not quite sure, whats happening at JN shipyard now.........as we havnt seen any recent photos from the shipyard posted on the web. Unless anyone knows differently....then please post images!

The last photos we saw, showed what appeared to be the 4th 052D now under construction in the right hand hallway.
Outside there was a module, which some speculated was for a 5th 052D.

So...........whats going in the left hand shed?........the next 052D.......or some other vessel. Hopefully we will find out in the not to distant future!

Regarding Dalian shipyard. I keep reading comments, saying that the yard has, or will be given orders to build further warships, such as the type 052D.....but so far, nothing seems to of come to fruition!

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## cnleio

052D DDG sea trial

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## cnleio

Latest pics of 052 DDG

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## hk299792458

2 x *Type 052C* and 3 x *Type 052D* under construction in Shanghai














































Henri K.

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## cnleio

China 052D DDG building, 2nd 052D DDG start to install type346A AESA radar 
(Right is the 6th 052C DDG building)

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## PiyaraPakistan

I am a non technical person in the subject filed but due to interest in naval warfare i have a question in my mind (but no one will make fun of it) 

Now seriouse question...

*Suppose CIWS installed on the front side of the destroyer is engaging an upcoming missile on 90 degree and at the same time a missile is ready to take launch from VLS system then is there any risk/possibility of hitting the missile by CIWS fire. because all the systems are working independently and parallel.*


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## LTE-TDD

PiyaraPakistan said:


> I am a non technical person in the subject filed but due to interest in naval warfare i have a question in my mind (but no one will make fun of it)
> 
> Now seriouse question...
> 
> *Suppose CIWS installed on the front side of the destroyer is engaging an upcoming missile on 90 degree and at the same time a missile is ready to take launch from VLS system then is there any risk/possibility of hitting the missile by CIWS fire. because all the systems are working independently and parallel.*



all systems are work in parallel AND cooperatively (not independently)


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## PiyaraPakistan

LTE-TDD said:


> all systems are work in parallel AND cooperatively (not independently)


 
Bro thanks for correction but your answer is incomplete. Respected seniors your valuable input is required.

Sir *Penguin ?*


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## 帅的一匹

Is there any plan for other shipyards to build type 052D?


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## cnleio

4th 052D DDG "ChengDu" launch.

Video, 5th 052D DDG building:

http://player.56.com/v_MTAwNTc1MzQ1.swf

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## BDforever

cnleio said:


> 4th 052D DDG "ChengDu" launch.
> 
> Video, 5th 052D DDG building:
> 
> http://player.56.com/v_MTAwNTc1MzQ1.swf


can we get one of this class for free as friend ?


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## cnleio

BDforever said:


> can we get one of this class for free as friend ?


This question, need to ask China government. We don't know in PDF.

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## Rashid Mahmood

PiyaraPakistan said:


> I am a non technical person in the subject filed but due to interest in naval warfare i have a question in my mind (but no one will make fun of it)
> 
> Now seriouse question...
> 
> *Suppose CIWS installed on the front side of the destroyer is engaging an upcoming missile on 90 degree and at the same time a missile is ready to take launch from VLS system then is there any risk/possibility of hitting the missile by CIWS fire. because all the systems are working independently and parallel.*



CIWS is controlled by Fire Control computers and only engages a target which is closing the ship. The rate of closure is calculated and assessed and the fire control computer classifies it as a threat. Then the target is engaged when it is in the engagement range.

So a missile fire from the ship, will not be closing the ship and will not be considered a threat.

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## cnleio

052D DDG #1 complete sea trial, return shipyard to instal the last radar(Yagi antenna radar, to detect stealth fighter location).
It seems 2014 PLAN will accept 1st 052D DDG.







052D DDG #1 sea trial

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## skyknight

Ya I know I might be shallow but I really think the Yagi antenna has downgraded the image of 052D,
I hope Type 055 DDG will say goodby to Yagi.

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## cnleio

Latest pics of 4x 052D DDG building together (052D #1/#2/#3/#4)
Left side is the 052D #1 finished sea trial, next year will join PLAN.

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## Echo_419

cnleio said:


> 052D DDG #1 complete sea trial, return shipyard to instal the last radar(Yagi antenna radar, to detect stealth fighter location).
> It seems 2014 PLAN will accept 1st 052D DDG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 052D DDG #1 sea trial



Damn you folks are fast builders

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## cnleio

#4 052D DDG install type346A AESA radar

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## ChineseTiger1986

Dalian shipyard has just being awarded with a contract of 3 Type 052D DDGs, it will start the construction along with the Type 001A AC.


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## Genesis

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Dalian shipyard has just being awarded with a contract of 3 Type 052D DDGs, it will start the construction along with the Type 001A AC.



IS this 3 additional or 3 in terms of the 8 planned?

Dalian shipyard nice, my cousin works there as some sort of quality inspector, not too sure. Exciting times to be working in that field.

AC, I'm assuming carrier?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Genesis said:


> IS this 3 additional or 3 in terms of the 8 planned?
> 
> Dalian shipyard nice, my cousin works there as some sort of quality inspector, not too sure. Exciting times to be working in that field.
> 
> AC, I'm assuming carrier?



I am not sure if Jiangnan shipyard will handle 4 Type 052Ds or 8 Type 052Ds.

The 3 Type 052Ds is only the first bach of order awarded to Dalian shipyard.

BTW, AC stands for aircraft carrier.


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## UKBengali

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I am not sure if Jiangnan shipyard will handle 4 Type 052Ds or 8 Type 052Ds.
> 
> The 3 Type 052Ds is only the first bach of order awarded to Dalian shipyard.
> 
> BTW, AC stands for aircraft carrier.



Any specs on the aircraft carrier?


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## ChineseTiger1986

UKBengali said:


> Any specs on the aircraft carrier?



001A: An improved version of Varyag and displaces about 80000 tons fully load. Deliver by 2019.

002: A Chinese version of Kitty Hawk class and displaces over 90000 tons fully load. Deliver by 2021.

China's nuclear aircraft carrier with EMALS will be ready by circa 2025-2027.

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## UKBengali

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 001A: An improved version of Varyag and displaces about 80000 tons full load. Deliver by 2019.
> 
> 002: A Chinese version of Kitty Hawk class and displaces over 90000 tons full load. Deliver by 2021.
> 
> China's nuclear aircraft carrier with EMALS will be ready by circa 2025-2027.



I think that all the carriers can then be considered "super-carriers".

A carrier of 80,000 tonnes will easily hold upwards of 60 aircraft, including at least 40 strike fighters.

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## ChineseTiger1986

UKBengali said:


> I think that all the carriers can then be considered "super-carriers".
> 
> A carrier of 80,000 tonnes will easily hold upwards of 60 aircraft, including at least 40 strike fighters.



Indeed, Liaoning is already close to 70000 tons, and China doesn't want to any aircraft carrier smaller than this.

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## Genesis

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 001A: An improved version of Varyag and displaces about 80000 tons fully load. Deliver by 2019.
> 
> 002: A Chinese version of Kitty Hawk class and displaces over 90000 tons fully load. Deliver by 2021.
> 
> China's nuclear aircraft carrier with EMALS will be ready by circa 2025-2027.



From what I been hearing just having bigger displacement is not a solution. Catapult is needed for J-15, I mean the Americans use it for smaller aircraft. 

One carrier per class seems like a waste of money, especially if we take into account the proximity of the launch dates. It be different 10 years apart, but....

80,000 does seem like a good number though, hope it goes nuclear.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Genesis said:


> From what I been hearing just having bigger displacement is not a solution. Catapult is needed for J-15, I mean the Americans use it for smaller aircraft.
> 
> One carrier per class seems like a waste of money, especially if we take into account the proximity of the launch dates. It be different 10 years apart, but....
> 
> 80,000 does seem like a good number though, hope it goes nuclear.



We all know that, but you can't expect PLAN to catch up USN immediately in a such short amount of time.

We need to achieve it step by step.

- The Type 001A is now a mature and reliable solution for PLAN, to make sure that we will have a reliable aircraft carrier in 5-6 years.

- The Type 002 is a parallel development of the Type 001A, and it is a generation ahead.

- The Type 003 will be China's aircraft carrier to rival the Gerald Ford class, but it will take a bit longer.

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## Genesis

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We all know that, but you can't expect PLAN to catch up USN immediately in a such short amount of time.
> 
> We need to achieve it step by step.
> 
> - The Type 001A is now a mature and reliable solution for PLAN, to make sure that we will have a reliable aircraft carrier in 5-6 years.
> 
> - The Type 002 is a parallel development of the Type 001A, and it is a generation ahead.
> 
> - The Type 003 will be China's aircraft carrier to rival the Gerald Ford class, but it will take a bit longer.



I'm not saying catch up to America now, but due to our choice of a heavy aircraft, the option of a non-catipult carrier seems useless.

J-15 right now at best is a bomber, with short range, and cannot achieve the full effectiveness of a otherwise great fighter.

but maybe the army has some other plan for these carriers, or information given by some are just about as accurate as my prediction of China making the best 8 in the one time we made it to the world cup.

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## lcloo

Genesis said:


> From what I been hearing just having bigger displacement is not a solution. Catapult is needed for J-15, I mean the Americans use it for smaller aircraft.
> 
> One carrier per class seems like a waste of money, especially if we take into account the proximity of the launch dates. It be different 10 years apart, but....
> 
> 80,000 does seem like a good number though, hope it goes nuclear.



The reason of building only one ac for each class is to accelerate the transformation of ac capabilities while still on early learning curve. Building many ships for 001A class and 002 class will take away funds for subsequent classes, especially 003. Also it shorten the time frame from 001A to 003 because 003 will not have to wait in line for many 001A and 002 to be completed in shipyards.

So why not jump straight to 003 instead? Well, China is a new kid in the block regarding building of aircraft carrier, especially a catapulp equiped ac. You rush hastily you will make some serious mistake. Good examples are the space programe in Shenzhou , Tiangong and Chang'er, these programes are doing very well, same will go with the aircraft carrier programe, go step by step and with large improvement in each step, you will achieve more.

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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> The reason of building only one ac for each class is to accelerate the transformation of ac capabilities while still on early learning curve. Building many ships for 001A class and 002 class will take away funds for subsequent classes, especially 003. Also it shorten the time frame from 001A to 003 because 003 will not have to wait in line for many 001A and 002 to be completed in shipyards.
> 
> So why not jump straight to 003 instead? Well, China is a new kid in the block regarding building of aircraft carrier, especially a catapulp equiped ac. You rush hastily you will make some serious mistake. Good examples are the space programe in Shenzhou , Tiangong and Chang'er, these programes are doing very well, same will go with the aircraft carrier programe, go step by step and with large improvement in each step, you will achieve more.



You got it right, the Type 003 will start its construction by 2020, and it is expected to be operational by 2027.

The Type 001A and Type 002 will not be built in large number, but to ensure China will gain more experience in building the aircraft carrier and to fulfill the role before the commission of the Type 003.

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## 帅的一匹

lcloo said:


> The reason of building only one ac for each class is to accelerate the transformation of ac capabilities while still on early learning curve. Building many ships for 001A class and 002 class will take away funds for subsequent classes, especially 003. Also it shorten the time frame from 001A to 003 because 003 will not have to wait in line for many 001A and 002 to be completed in shipyards.
> 
> So why not jump straight to 003 instead? Well, China is a new kid in the block regarding building of aircraft carrier, especially a catapulp equiped ac. You rush hastily you will make some serious mistake. Good examples are the space programe in Shenzhou , Tiangong and Chang'er, these programes are doing very well, same will go with the aircraft carrier programe, go step by step and with large improvement in each step, you will achieve more.


Sounds like you are finiancial minister of China, do you know how much we got for currency reserve? China need at least 6 operating CBG to defend its sea land.

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## ChineseTiger1986

wanglaokan said:


> Sounds like you are finiancial minister of China, do you know how much we got for currency reserve? China need at least 6 operating CBG to defend its sea land.



His analysis was right, China wants to build the aircraft carrier to match the Gerald Ford class, but to build a bunch of technologically inferior aircraft carriers will be a waste of money.

Thus, we need to achieve it step by step.

Type 001A: An improved version of Liaoning, but there is 10% of chance that this AC will be a Chinese version of the Ulyanovsk class supercarrier.

Type 002: A modernized version of Kitty Hawk, 10% of chance to have EMALS, 5% of chance being a Chinese version of the Nimitz class supercarrier.

Type 003: It is 100% guaranteed to rival of the Gerald Ford class supercarrier.

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## 帅的一匹

The charateristic of PLA is they never wanna take any risk in weapon R&D, steady and stable.

Pros and Cons?

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## ChineseTiger1986

wanglaokan said:


> The charateristic of PLA is they never wanna take any risk in weapon R&D, steady and stable.
> 
> Pros and Cons?



This is 100% true, they don't want to leave an empty hull on the water for more than decade.

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## lcloo

wanglaokan said:


> Sounds like you are finiancial minister of China, do you know how much we got for currency reserve? China need at least 6 operating CBG to defend its sea land.


Well I am a retired accountant, may be my writing does reflect my former career habit. I am aware of China's currency reserve but operating each CBG is a huge budget commitment. Yes China will need may be 6 CBG but that's for the future, and meanwhile China should build while learning the trade, you just can't rush. China space programme is a good reflection of the government's policy regarding this.


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## 帅的一匹

lcloo said:


> Well I am a retired accountant, may be my writing does reflect my former career habit. I am aware of China's currency reserve but operating each CBG is a huge budget commitment. Yes China will need may be 6 CBG but that's for the future, and meanwhile China should build while learning the trade, you just can't rush. China space programme is a good reflection of the government's policy regarding this.


My friend, you live in Malaysia? Malaysian Indian?


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## lcloo

我像印度人吗?那AVATAR是僵尸大战植物人内取出来地. 我祖籍福建泉州东门外仁风街,南迁已近百年了.

Yes, I am Malaysian, but not of Indian origin, I am ethnic Chinese.

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## 帅的一匹

lcloo said:


> 我像印度人吗?那AVATAR是僵尸大战植物人内取出来地. 我祖籍福建泉州东门外仁风街,南迁已近百年了.
> 
> Yes, I am Malaysian, but not of Indian origin, I am ethnic Chinese.[/quot
> 我有很多马华朋友，他们人都很NICE.

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## Rain

lcloo said:


> Well I am a retired accountant, may be my writing does reflect my former career habit. I am aware of China's currency reserve but operating each CBG is a huge budget commitment. Yes China will need may be 6 CBG but that's for the future, and meanwhile China should build while learning the trade, you just can't rush. China space programme is a good reflection of the government's policy regarding this.


Your former profession caused me to put a question, to all of navy enthusiasts from US, UK India, China.
The question is: how much on average carrier and super-carrier cost per annum in peacetime. and how much DDG types ships cost?

thanks in advance


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## cirr

The crew complement of DDG 150 “Changchun” is 30 less than DDG 170.

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## Fsjal

cirr said:


> The crew complement of DDG 150 “Changchun” is 30 less than DDG 170.


Why is that?


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## 帅的一匹

Means more advanced?


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## cirr

Fsjal said:


> Why is that?



Higher degree of automation and more advanced systems which are far more integrated than those onboard earlier 052C DDGs（170 and 171）。

There is an article about this published in the PLA Daily。

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## ChineseTiger1986

I think 151 and 152 will be commissioned together in next month.

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## Erwinpak43

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Are D9 and D10 going to be built in the 3rd shipyard?


你好，你是SCER么


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## ChineseTiger1986

Erwinpak43 said:


> 你好，你是SCER么



My CD ID is ChinaTiger86.


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## cirr



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## LTE-TDD

cirr said:


>




So the 4th 052D is almost ready in the 2nd cave, I think it will be launched in a couple of months.

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## cnleio

2014 China will build more 052D DDGs in different shipyards, DaLian + ShangHai.

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## 帅的一匹

PLA navy shall have at least thirty 052D in its inventory. What a beauty!

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## Kompromat

@cirr What is the unit cost of each Type52DDG plus weapons?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Aeronaut said:


> @cirr What is the unit cost of each Type52DDG plus weapons?



One billion per unit for the first batch, then the cost will start to reduce in the next batch.

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## Beidou2020

wanglaokan said:


> PLA navy shall have at least thirty 052D in its inventory. What a beauty!



30? Are you sure


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## ChineseTiger1986

According to POP3, the Type 055 will start the construction in this year.

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## cnleio

052D #1


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## 帅的一匹

What a elegant beauty!


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## Genesis

We are finally hitting the passing grade, when we bought ships, our navy was at a good capability, but as we started total indigenous designs and production I got to say the quality slipped.

But today we have finally reached back to that standard and can produce ships 100% in house. Which is also why we are faster in putting FINISHED ships in water than another friend, because we don't wait for parts from foreign countries. 

Now it's only a matter of time before we catch up.

万事开头难
When doing anything, the beginning is always most difficult.

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## cnleio

wanglaokan said:


> What a elegant beauty!


First to build dozens of 052D, second to build larger DDG as advanced as "Burke III", third to build 5~6x Aircraft Carrier Battle Groups.

General, the China Global Strike is urs~!

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## cnleio



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## cnleio

2x 052D DDGs #172 #173 ready !

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## cirr

Let's have 20 of these babies first。

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## Genesis

cirr said:


> Let's have 20 of these babies first。



Are we not making type 52E, and type 52F? Would seem logical, since Type 52D is no longer the most technically advanced ship in China's plans anymore. I'm talking Type 54B, which I heard is electric propulsion.


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## 帅的一匹

Said Dalian shipyard is now building two 052D destroyer, the new carrier will be completed by year 2018.

China will have at least 15 popos of 'Ageis' like DDG by year 2015. Six 052c plus nine 052D.

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## cirr

Genesis said:


> Are we not making type 52E, and type 52F? Would seem logical, since Type 52D is no longer the most technically advanced ship in China's plans anymore. I'm talking Type 54B, which I heard is electric propulsion.



It doesn't matter if ships are called 052D Block II or 052E so long as they are constantly improved upon as more advanced systems and weapons become available。

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> Let's have 20 of these babies first。

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## 帅的一匹

quite impressive, 052D is built in my hometown! I'm so pround of it!

7 052d have been confirmed under construction, we can see it rolling from the factory.

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## ChineseTiger1986

D4 and D5 will be soon launched simultaneously.

In this year, China will likely commission C5/C6 and D1/D2.

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## Sasquatch

The Type 055 DDG construction won't start this year, it's disappointing.

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## truthseeker2010

What is the principal SAM missile for 052D's??


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## ChineseTiger1986

truthseeker2010 said:


> What is the principal SAM missile for 052D's??



HQ-9B



Hu Songshan said:


> The Type 055 DDG construction won't start this year, it's disappointing.



Since China is now building the Type 052D and the nuclear subs with a fast rate, so it won't bother me that much if the Type 055 is delayed a little bit.

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## truthseeker2010

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> HQ-9B



Any info of the missile? does it have greater range than HQ-9? is it ABM capable? any other improvement?


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## ChineseTiger1986

truthseeker2010 said:


> Any info of the missile? does it have greater range than HQ-9? is it ABM capable? any other improvement?



Yes, around 300km, better than the original HQ-9 with 200km.

The anti-missile will be HQ-26, it can fit into the Type 052D as well.

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## english_man

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> D4 and D5 will be soon launched simultaneously.
> 
> In this year, China will likely commission C5/C6 and D1/D2.


I was intrigued by this picture.....as i presume its a new picture from JN shipyard?

We all knew from previous photos that the 4th 052D was being constructed in the right hand hall at JN........and there were modules for the 5th 052D outside.......but in previous photos the left-hand shed had shown contruction of commercial vessels.

So, if your photo is very new..........then yes it does look like now that the modules for the 5th 052D are in the left hand shed.

Does anyone think this is correct?

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## ChineseTiger1986

english_man said:


> I was intrigued by this picture.....as i presume its a new picture from JN shipyard?
> 
> We all knew from previous photos that the 4th 052D was being constructed in the right hand hall at JN........and there were modules for the 5th 052D outside.......but in previous photos the left-hand shed had shown contruction of commercial vessels.
> 
> So, if your photo is very new..........then yes it does look like now that the modules for the 5th 052D are in the left hand shed.
> 
> Does anyone think this is correct?



There are too many DDGs accumulated in the pool, that's why the launch date of the D4 was delayed.

So now the launch date of D4 and D5 will be very close after the full depart of C5 and C6.

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## BoQ77

Even Type 057 in the plan, why China launches so many kinds ? Is China still not satisfy with current designs ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> Even Type 057 in the plan, why China launches so many kinds ? Is China still not satisfy with current designs ?



No one would ever satisfy with its available weapons, that's why people will keep modernizing its military with infinity.


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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> No one would ever satisfy with its available weapons, that's why people will keep modernizing its military with infinity.



Not any related to any bad design, or bad quality build of previous design ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> Not any related to any bad design, or bad quality build of previous design ?



Nope, we will always pursue the even more advanced weapons.

Why the USN wants the Gerald Ford class to replace the Nimitz class? Is the Nimitz class bad? Nope, they are just pursuing the even better supercarrier.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nope, we will always pursue the even more advanced weapons.
> 
> Why the USN wants the Gerald Ford class to replace the Nimitz class? Is the Nimitz class bad? Nope, they are just pursuing the even better supercarrier.



Great !!! 

But I heard that, the lifetime of Chinese warships quite short and several retired very soon ... for this or that reason.
If your old warship reach the state of art like Nimitz, then your next design should be Gerald Ford ...


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## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> Great !!!
> 
> But I heard that, the lifetime of Chinese warships quite short and several retired very soon ... for this or that reason.
> If your old warship reach the state of art like Nimitz, then your next design should be Gerald Ford ...


I don't know where u hear that news, it's not truth. We can say the PLAN's warships r young, coz 80% warships like 052B/C/D DDGs and 054A FFGs built since 2000, most just serving for 10 years in the Navy.

Some old warship made by Chinese like 051 DDGs and 053 FFG also serving in PLAN now, they r built in 1990s near 20 years ago. Most 053 FFGs started to retired from PLAN replaced by 054A or 052C/D ,some of old 053 FFGs were updated and sold to foreign Navy like Thailand, Myanmar, Bangladesh, some Africa nations, they still r main warship in those small Navy.

The rumor about "made in China" == inferior quality still confuse ur brain, that's very interesting ~! If u can carefully research the warship in Southeast Asia Navy, u will find many Chinese made warships(20 years old, updated 053 FFGs) serving in foreign Navy.

Right now PLAN's warships can not compared with American Nimitz, but we didn't stop to upgrate our current warship desgin. The example r PLAN's 052C DDG ==> 052D DDG, 053 FFG ==> 056 corvette, 054A FFG ==> 057 or 054B FFG (2014 building), and mysterious 055 DDG. Chinese shipbuilding industry & PLAN going forward !

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## BoQ77

Which one is competent to Japan Akizuki ?


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## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> Which one is competent to Japan Akizuki ?


None, it depend on 2014 China building 057(054B) new designed FFG. I think new building 057 will be as same function as Japan Akizuki, China 057 will install small AESA. PLAN's 054A FFG is old design, it's time to push out new small AESA FFG.

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## BoQ77

Actually, China has not too much of sea area.
Too many warships incl. submarines needed or not ?

So 057 is the rival of Akizuki, which would be for Atago class ?


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## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> Actually, China has not too much of sea area.
> Too many warships incl. submarines needed or not ?


1. China is a western Pacific country, our east border close to the Pacific.
2. Most oil supply for China by sea-ship, protect the safety of energy line is PLAN's duty.



BoQ77 said:


> So 057 is the rival of Akizuki, which would be for Atago class ?


I think, it will be ...
052C vs Kongō
052D vs Atago
057 vs Akizuki

Currently 4x 052C DDGs(170,171,150,152) and 16x 054A FFGs serving in PLAN, another 4x 052C + 8x 052D have been building in shipyards, many 054A FFGs also building, maybe 2014 will start to build 057 FFG. Right now whole Chinese shipyards r building different warships.

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## BoQ77

Thanks. But Am I true to realize the Chinese warships only about three-fourth in tonnage compares to relative Japanese warships ?


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## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> Thanks. But Am I true to realize the Chinese warships only about three-fourth in tonnage compares to relative Japanese warships ?


052C and 052D install VLS units( 48x VLS and 64x VLS) less than Japan's Kongō and Atago (96x VLS), but their cost half cheaper than Japan DDG. PLAN's DDG smaller than them, but we will build more.

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> 052C and 052D install VLS units( 48x VLS and 64x VLS) less than Japan's Kongō and Atago (96x VLS), but their cost half cheaper than Japan DDG. PLAN's DDG smaller than them, but we will build more.



One more thing to add, 052D VLS is able to added offensive LACM or supersonic ASM. While JMSDF DDG is only able to hold air defense missile or SM-3 despite having more silo.

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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> Great !!!
> 
> But I heard that, the lifetime of Chinese warships quite short and several retired very soon ... for this or that reason.
> If your old warship reach the state of art like Nimitz, then your next design should be Gerald Ford ...



A US supercarrier has a lifespan about 50 years.

While China's DDG and FFG have pretty much 30 years of lifespan, pretty similar to the US DDG.

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## cnleio

@BoQ77

Whatever new DDG or FFG design, AESA is the stardard equipment for future China warships.

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## cnleio

052D DDG "He Fei / 合肥"

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## ChineseTiger1986

Hefei gonna be 173 or 174?


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## ChineseTiger1986

The improved Type 052D, and it is the 5th ships of the class.

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## xhw1986



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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> A US supercarrier has a lifespan about 50 years.
> 
> While China's DDG and FFG have pretty much 30 years of lifespan, pretty similar to the US DDG.



The new Ford will have a lifespan of 100 years. Hence the new nuclear power reactor and extra power. As well as noticeable features on the ship that they will put on it for future upgrades.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> The new Ford will have a lifespan of 100 years. Hence the new nuclear power reactor and extra power. As well as noticeable features on the ship that they will put on it for future upgrades.



It still has 50 years of lifespan, the only difference is that the Nimitz class needs to change the refuel in every 20-25 years, while the Ford class doesn't need to refuel at all.

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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It still has 50 years of lifespan, the only difference is that the Nimitz class needs to change the refuel in every 20-25 years, while the Ford class doesn't need to refuel at all.



So what? People said that the B52 was suppose to have 20-25 year life span and yet the oldest one is like 50 years old right now. The new Ford class with constant upgrades and maintenance can have a lifespan of 100 years if nothing revolutionary comes in decades to come for carrier warfare. Especially as they become more expensive if they attempt a new class of carriers.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> So what? People said that the B52 was suppose to have 20-25 year life span and yet the oldest one is like 50 years old right now. The new Ford class with constant upgrades and maintenance can have a lifespan of 100 years if nothing revolutionary comes in decades to come for carrier warfare. Especially as they become more expensive if they attempt a new class of carriers.



After 100 years, it gonna be the space carrier.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> 052C and 052D install VLS units( 48x VLS and 64x VLS) less than Japan's Kongō and Atago (96x VLS), but their cost half cheaper than Japan DDG. PLAN's DDG smaller than them, but we will build more.



The Kongo class only has 90 VLS, while the Atago class has 96 VLS.

The Kongo class is equivalent to the Burke Flight I, it has no hangar for the chopper.

Also, just check the size of the VLS:

MK-41: 63 cm
MK-57: 71 cm
Type 052D's CCL VLS: 85 cm

The Type 052D will soon have the HQ-29, a miniaturized version of the HQ-9, which can be quad-packed into each VLS cell.

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## Genesis

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Kongo class only has 90 VLS, while the Atago class has 96 VLS.
> 
> The Kongo class is equivalent to the Burke Flight I, it has no hangar for the chopper.
> 
> Also, just check the size of the VLS:
> 
> MK-41: 63 cm
> MK-57: 71 cm
> Type 052D's CCL VLS: 85 cm
> 
> The Type 052D will soon have the HQ-29, a miniaturized version of the HQ-9, which can be quad-packed into each VLS cell.



The Japanese ships are not that good, mostly because they are direct copies of earlier American versions. Ours is more advanced, it is smaller, only because the roles are different.

52D is not suppose to be the tip of Chinese naval power, it's a support ship to bigger DDGs not built yet.

Also Japanese ships are severely restricted in offensive capabilities meaning it lacks offensive punch. It can only defend, not only that it was built as a complement to American battle groups so it cannot effectively do battle without America. 

If America pull out or doesn't participate, their ships are just huge floating targets with not much use. But it does have better anti missile abilities than China, at least on the seas, and only at this moment, that will change soon. 

I also agree that Chinese VLS is way more advanced, but then we also designed it way later than the Americans did, the new American system on the DDG-1000 is better, but that's not for export.

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## english_man

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The improved Type 052D, and it is the 5th ships of the class.



Can someone explain to me the reason for part of the photo to be covered up?

Something about the steering or propulsion system, that the Chinese Navy doesnt want the world to see yet?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Genesis said:


> The Japanese ships are not that good, mostly because they are direct copies of earlier American versions. Ours is more advanced, it is smaller, only because the roles are different.
> 
> 52D is not suppose to be the tip of Chinese naval power, it's a support ship to bigger DDGs not built yet.
> 
> Also Japanese ships are severely restricted in offensive capabilities meaning it lacks offensive punch. It can only defend, not only that it was built as a complement to American battle groups so it cannot effectively do battle without America.
> 
> If America pull out or doesn't participate, their ships are just huge floating targets with not much use. But it does have better anti missile abilities than China, at least on the seas, and only at this moment, that will change soon.
> 
> I also agree that Chinese VLS is way more advanced, but then we also designed it way later than the Americans did, the new American system on the DDG-1000 is better, but that's not for export.



The DDG-1000 class will use the same technological level VLS compared to that of the Type 052D, yet it is still smaller.

But both DDG-1000 and DDG-123 will feature the S/X dual band AESA radar. However, our coming Type 055 will also possess that feature.



english_man said:


> Can someone explain to me the reason for part of the photo to be covered up?
> 
> Something about the steering or propulsion system, that the Chinese Navy doesnt want the world to see yet?



The photo was taken by an insider, but he has to cover this part, otherwise he would end up in jail for leaking the top military secret.

I think we have to wait for more time to know the secret behind this.

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## english_man

Will we be getting photos at regular intervals of the build of the Type 052D's at Dalian?.........or is the shipyard not easily accessible to people taking pictures, like we have seen at 'JN', 'HD' and 'HP' shipyards!

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## ChineseTiger1986

english_man said:


> Will we be getting photos at regular intervals of the build of the Type 052D's at Dalian?.........or is the shipyard not easily accessible to people taking pictures, like we have seen at 'JN', 'HD' and 'HP' shipyards!



The Dalian shipyard is hard to film due the geographic location, so we can only wait until the ship is launched on the water.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The lead ship of the Type 052D also got its hull number.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Arleigh Burke Flight IIA (9500 tons) vs Type 052D (7500 tons)

But the Type 052D's CCL VLS is huge, 16 cells are almost as large as MK-41's 32 cells.

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## Genesis

At least 6 type 52D are starting at Jiangnan shipyard, with a further 2 at Dalian, 5 are seen to be finishing up in shipyards and then there's the 172 that will soon enter service.

So we are looking at at least 10-12 of these ships, and then see where to go from there. 



> 江南的船，刷号到授旗服役一般不超过三个月，这是普遍的规律，而172已经刷号，172其实已经基本能用快1年了，一年前就到过舟山，甚至米波雷达都没 装，因为当时钓鱼岛形势非常紧张，只要大盾和防空导弹能用，172甚至米波雷达都不装都要上战场，因为我们的主战舰艇还是太少！在近海，预警和反隐身目 标，可以通过其他平台提供数据，当时真是十万火急！
> 现代海空装备，研制生产装备周期都是很长的，一条驱逐舰调到顺手好用，从切割钢板到服役，起码四年，所以说我们现在的海空主战装备，必须时刻加班加点的 干，东海南海的战争爆发，也就瞬间的事情，今后三年，是绝对的危险期，现代战争不是当年卫国战争，当年苏联美国生产缝纫机的厂可以很快改产飞机，生产拖拉 机的转产坦克；现代武器系统精密复杂，不是以前的民品厂说转产就能转产的，必须提前装备和储备，
> 现代武器的操纵，也高度专业化，同样不是像当年抓几个壮丁，塞给他杆步枪就能上战场；而格鲁吉亚和俄国的5天战争表明，太多的临时拼凑的民兵，不但不能在现代战场上助威，反而起到反作用，临时拼凑的民兵军团最容易动摇崩溃，影响整个战局；
> 因此现代化军队，也必须高度职业化和士官化，一只现代化军队，从装备到人员培训，没有二三十年，砸他千把亿美刀，是玩不起来地，所以当今在全球，超级大国和普通国家的军力差距越来越大，即使中等强国，面对超级大国的海天一体化远程攻击，也只有被动挨打的份。
> 我们未来十年，至少要面对一场高强度的局部战争的危险，因此无论卫星，飞机，战舰，导弹，都必须加强生产和储备，想大战来临再开足马力生产？根本来不及， 不用说隐形飞机，战舰这些超精密设备，就是陆军的现代化主战坦克，目前也不可能像二战一样让你战争临头再加班造，因为现代化陆军装备同样精密复杂，现代战 争已经没有绝对安全的后方的情况下，原料供应会出问题，工厂会被轰炸，完全不能正常生产；而当今的局部战争，正规战阶段基本没有超过1到2个月的，一个月 胜负基本已定，而目前一个月时间，不用说军舰，就是一架战斗机，一辆主战坦克都很难组装起来；
> 172的生产进度，其实并不晚于152和153,152也刷号了，152,172在2014年年内服役是基本确定的，172应该今年春天就会到南海服役，052D,应该有5条下船台舾装了，甚至船台上还有6号舰，网传尾部开大门的应该就是6号舰；
> 江南至少已经加工成型了6条052D,至于下一步是继续生产052D还是开始造055大区，这个有待观察，但052D在大连开始至少开始生产2条，这个已经由某书记透露过，可见052D今后是一段时期的海军主力，至少应该造10条，甚至会有12条；
> 052D最早4条都给南海舰队，说明要新组建一个驱逐舰支队，这个支队就是要首配航母的，航母只有在开阔的南海中南部，西太，印度洋，才能发挥航母的长 处，陆地包裹的黄海和东海，四面临敌，全部在周边的陆地战斗机作战半径内，战时放上航母是添乱，航母这种高价值目标，必将成为敌方蜂拥攻击的对象，一旦被 击中，会对整个战争的战略决心产生影响，因此美帝海军的作战条例，也严禁将航母部署在敌对方陆地作战飞机半径内，平时的航母靠近岸边武力威慑是一回事，真 正开打是另一回事，美帝航母作战群先远离岸边500海里以上，一通战斧打完，对方反击能力被基本压制了，舰载机才会再去洗地，这一套作战模式，我们未来的 航母作战群也会模仿。

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## Genesis

Reports/rumors are the second of the Type 52D have started sea trials, good times.

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## english_man

The type 052D seems to be going through a quicker outfitting phase than the 052C's.................i did read a story that their were some teething problems with the improved engines fitted to the latest batch of 052C's hence the long time to entering service...
and i believe the 052D's use the same engines as the improved 052C class, so those problems would of been resolved before the fitting of these engines to the 052D.
But, as the 052D is a new toy for the Chinese navy it appears they are very keen to get them into service a.s.a.p...............the 052C's they are happy with, but it appeared the Chinese navy were not in a hurry to put them into service, in fact 150 and 151 hung around the fleet after completion for quite sometime before they were commissioned.
Anyway the last 2 052C's will go into service this year, with perhaps the first 052D................and the 4th should be launched very soon, and with the other 052D's at 'JN' and 'Dalian'...........then 2014 is the year of the Destroyer for the Chinese Navy.

Then next year (hopefully) China starts work on its '055' Destroyer/Cruiser.................which should be a real monster!

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## Beast

english_man said:


> The type 052D seems to be going through a quicker outfitting phase than the 052C's.................i did read a story that their were some teething problems with the improved engines fitted to the latest batch of 052C's hence the long time to entering service...
> and i believe the 052D's use the same engines as the improved 052C class, so those problems would of been resolved before the fitting of these engines to the 052D.
> But, as the 052D is a new toy for the Chinese navy it appears they are very keen to get them into service a.s.a.p...............the 052C's they are happy with, but it appeared the Chinese navy were not in a hurry to put them into service, in fact 150 and 151 hung around the fleet after completion for quite sometime before they were commissioned.
> Anyway the last 2 052C's will go into service this year, with perhaps the first 052D................and the 4th should be launched very soon, and with the other 052D's at 'JN' and 'Dalian'...........then 2014 is the year of the Destroyer for the Chinese Navy.
> 
> Then next year (hopefully) China starts work on its '055' Destroyer/Cruiser.................which should be a real monster!



Type 052C are not massed produced and slow induction becos they are only interim solution compare to Type 052D. PLAN are not very satisfy Type052C. 
Type 052D are a big leap becos of the new standard VLS launcher that can fire LACM,long range air defense missile, anti-sub missile and anti- warship missile.

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## UKBengali

english_man said:


> The type 052D seems to be going through a quicker outfitting phase than the 052C's.................i did read a story that their were some teething problems with the improved engines fitted to the latest batch of 052C's hence the long time to entering service...
> and i believe the 052D's use the same engines as the improved 052C class, so those problems would of been resolved before the fitting of these engines to the 052D.
> But, as the 052D is a new toy for the Chinese navy it appears they are very keen to get them into service a.s.a.p...............the 052C's they are happy with, but it appeared the Chinese navy were not in a hurry to put them into service, in fact 150 and 151 hung around the fleet after completion for quite sometime before they were commissioned.
> Anyway the last 2 052C's will go into service this year, with perhaps the first 052D................and the 4th should be launched very soon, and with the other 052D's at 'JN' and 'Dalian'...........then 2014 is the year of the Destroyer for the Chinese Navy.
> 
> *Then next year (hopefully) China starts work on its '055' Destroyer/Cruiser.................which should be a real monster!*



The only reason to build a monster destroyer like Type 055 is to signal the intent to carry out attacks against land-based targets as the Type-052C/D are already sufficient to take care of air-defence.

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## english_man

Beast said:


> Type 052C are not massed produced and slow induction becos they are only interim solution compare to Type 052D. PLAN are not very satisfy Type052C.
> Type 052D are a big leap becos of the new standard VLS launcher that can fire LACM,long range air defense missile, anti-sub missile and anti- warship missile.



Yes.............i know.........it does make you wonder why then the 4 extra type 052C's were ordered, as the 052D followed immediately. What i'am saying is that if the Navy really wanted they could of waited a couple of years to have built just 052D's only. Maybe as 'JN' shipyard had been out of action for a few years due to its relocation, then the Navy felt it needed to build some Destroyers quickly to build up its fleet numbers, but at the time the 052D wasnt quite ready for production.
Anyway, the 4 new 052C's are obviously a big improvement, and have proved a testing ground for the new engines, and obviously feature enhancements to their electronic warfare systems over the original pair which are close to a decade old now!

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## ChineseTiger1986

english_man said:


> Yes.............i know.........it does make you wonder why then the 4 extra type 052C's were ordered, as the 052D followed immediately. What i'am saying is that if the Navy really wanted they could of waited a couple of years to have built just 052D's only. Maybe as 'JN' shipyard had been out of action for a few years due to its relocation, then the Navy felt it needed to build some Destroyers quickly to build up its fleet numbers, but at the time the 052D wasnt quite ready for production.
> Anyway, the 4 new 052C's are obviously a big improvement, and have proved a testing ground for the new engines, and obviously feature enhancements to their electronic warfare systems over the original pair which are close to a decade old now!



The 4 extra Type 052D were ordered before the move of the JN shipyard during 2006-2008.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The Type 052D is ready to go.

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## CrazyPaki

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 052D is ready to go.


is this fully commissioned ?

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## ChineseTiger1986

CrazyPaki said:


> is this fully commissioned ?



Pretty soon.


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## CrazyPaki

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Pretty soon.


how many are you guys going to purchase before the next gen comes in?


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## ChineseTiger1986

CrazyPaki said:


> how many are you guys going to purchase before the next gen comes in?



8 to 12, it depends.

The next generation will be started by the end of 2014 or the early of 2015.

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## aliaselin

first Type 052D commissioned

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## cirr

172 formally inducted

This is great news which has come way earlier than I expected。

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## CrazyPaki

this thing looks like a beast

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## CrazyPaki

cirr said:


> 172 formally inducted
> 
> This is great news which has come way earlier than I expected。


haha ye, at the speed your navy is building up by 2020 I can see 2-3 AC.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The Type 052D from DL is an improved variant, they are slightly different from the 6 Type 052D ships from JNCX.


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## cirr

Induction ceremony：


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## xuxu1457



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## Beast

xuxu1457 said:


>


At this speed, i bet they will commission all 4 type 052D within this year. Even without carrier, 052D will helps PLAN to project power without air wings. The LACM launch from this destroyer will be enough to knockout most 3rd world armed forces, not to mention enforce no fly zone with its long range.defense missile to protect most fleet.

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## hk299792458

Other spotter's photos of 172 Kunming...



















































Henri K.

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## hk299792458

Other spotter's photos of 172 Kunming...
















Henri K.

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## hk299792458

CCTV footage on the delivery of 172 Kunming






Henri K.

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## english_man

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 052D from DL is an improved variant, they are slightly different from the 6 Type 052D ships from JNCX.



Do you know what the differences in the 052D's being built at Dalian, over the the others being built at 'JN'

Surprising!........so early.....but great news for the Chinese navy to have its first 052D commissioned!

Just need to get those last 2 052C's into service now, as they have been completed for a while now!

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## Beast

I believe 172 fast commissioning is facilitate and validate all missile firing system. I believe she will be deploy for sea sortie very soon and hope she will fire LACM , YJ-12 ASM and new HQ long range air defense missile.

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## ChineseTiger1986

english_man said:


> Do you know what the differences in the 052D's being built at Dalian, over the the others being built at 'JN'
> 
> Surprising!........so early.....but great news for the Chinese navy to have its first 052D commissioned!
> 
> Just need to get those last 2 052C's into service now, as they have been completed for a while now!



The military insider didn't specify anything.

From a personal opinion, I think maybe some minor improvements such as to hide the funnels into the superstructure and to have the new long-range search radar similar to the British SMART-L.


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## Basel

Congrats to China  but in pics from sides why sheets of metal have bad finishing, they are not as smooth as western ones have, why?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Basel said:


> Congrats to China  but in pics from sides why sheets of metal have bad finishing, they are not as smooth as western ones have, why?



Because the paint is fresh, while the white color makes the seams of welding more visible than the grey color.


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## Basel

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because the paint is fresh, while the white color makes the seams of welding more visible than the grey color.



but ship finishing don't look upto high standards, even F-22Ps had better outer finish.

if you take a closer look at highlighted part of ship with red line it seems substandard, same in nearly all closer pics posted. It looks like these ships are made in hurry.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Basel said:


> but ship finishing don't look upto high standards, even F-22Ps had better outer finish.
> 
> if you take a closer look at highlighted part of ship with red line it seems substandard, same in nearly all closer pics posted. It looks like these ships are made in hurry.
> 
> View attachment 21845



I think it is the photograph, the outline in some pics seem to be ok.

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## hk299792458

Beast said:


> I believe 172 fast commissioning is facilitate and validate all missile firing system. I believe she will be deploy for sea sortie very soon and hope she will fire LACM , YJ-12 ASM and new HQ long range air defense missile.



HHQ-9B, YJ-18A, H/PJ-38, H/PJ-12, HQ-10, 726-4 and H/VJQ004B, that's all, nothing more.

Henri K.

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## Beast

Basel said:


> Congrats to China  but in pics from sides why sheets of metal have bad finishing, they are not as smooth as western ones have, why?



I am sure you all get the wrong idea. This type of finishing is standard. Even western warship do look that way. That picture show direct exposed to bright sunlight which you able to spot the edges. Westen countries are damm good at marketing. They released photo mostly of non direct sunlight to misled you all their warship hull is very smooth. But sometimes, no choice. The obvious edges can be captured by photo too. See the edges on the side of the hull.. I do not see much different of it from 172 Kumming DDG.






Mind you, this ship is quite new for USN.

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## qwerrty

looks fine to me. don't think there's a smooth ship exist 



horizon class





type45

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## cirr

hk299792458 said:


> HHQ-9B, YJ-18A, H/PJ-38, H/PJ-12, HQ-10, 726-4 and H/VJQ004B, that's all, nothing more.
> 
> Henri K.



You counted out the new vertically launched anti-sub missiles。

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## ChineseTiger1986

cirr said:


> You counted out the new vertically launched anti-sub missiles。



The anti-sub missiles will not be vertically launched.


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## PiyaraPakistan

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because the paint is fresh, while the white color makes the seams of welding more visible than the grey color.


Some times Shadow of Water/Glare also gives the ship a bad finishing look.
I am in love with these beasts.

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## cirr

The launch of “D4” DDG 175 is earnestly awaited：










ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The anti-sub missiles will not be vertically launched.



The anti-sub missiles are vertically launched。The practice started at least as early as Type 054A FFG。

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## Beast

qwerrty said:


> The anti-sub missiles are vertically launched。The practice started at least as early as Type 054A FFG。



yes, correct. it was stated by PLAN sailor onboard 054A when it visit Hong kong port 2 years ago.

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## nomi007



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## Basel

Beast said:


> I am sure you all get the wrong idea. This type of finishing is standard. Even western warship do look that way. That picture show direct exposed to bright sunlight which you able to spot the edges. Westen countries are damm good at marketing. They released photo mostly of non direct sunlight to misled you all their warship hull is very smooth. But sometimes, no choice. The obvious edges can be captured by photo too. See the edges on the side of the hull.. I do not see much different of it from 172 Kumming DDG.



if that is the case then its good ship, where it stands as per its class with it counterparts? can 2 to 4 ships handle threat posed by Indian Navy specially their Brahmos missile? when patrolling Indian ocean? because if yes then PN must look into these at least 4 of them, which China may provide on priority as they know that their closest ally face very big foe.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Basel said:


> if that is the case then its good ship, where it stands as per its class with it counterparts? can 2 to 4 ships handle threat posed by Indian Navy specially their Brahmos missile? when patrolling Indian ocean? because if yes then PN must look into these at least 4 of them, which China may provide on priority as they know that their closest ally face very big foe.



I think PN will acquire it after 2020, but don't worry, after 2020, it will still be a very advanced destroyer, but in addition with cheaper price and improved/more mature technologies.

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## Basel

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think PN will acquire it after 2020, but don't worry, after 2020, it will still be a very advanced destroyer, but in addition with cheaper price and improved/more mature technologies.



IN is expending at very high speed and with very advance tech, therefore PN needs advance air defense ships which can neutralize IN advantage having air arm and advance long range supersonic missiles in numbers. These ships will also be force multipliers because when they are used with current fleet PN have, PN can still avoid blockade of Pakistan's sea lines and ports.

Can someone post comparison of these ships with other ships of this class?


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## Beast

I doubt PN has the financial means to acquire this destroyer. They are very expensive in unit per price and maintenance.

These destroyer are revolution in terms of its AESA radar and VLS system plus the main gun. The VLS system is able to fire many types of missiles. Meaning you have plenty of option when deploying these ships. When you are on air defense mission. You can pack all of them with long range air defense missile. While if you are on bombardment attack. LACM will be pack all in. Sometime which is technology out of reach of IN capabilities. Their INS kolkata VLS is fixed meaning not flexible and limited in types of missile loaded onboard.

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## cnleio

Now China 052D DDG building situation:

052D DDG #1 N.o172 "KunMing"






052D DDG #2 and #3






052D DDG #4


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## cirr

DDG 175 on 23.03.2014

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## cirr

DDG 173 at PLAN Zhoushan Base

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> DDG 174 at PLAN Zhoushan Base


New 052D N.o172 "KunMing" deploy in PLAN East Sea Fleet, not South Sea Fleet?


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## hk299792458

cirr said:


> DDG 174 at PLAN Zhoushan Base



Rather 173 Changsha and not 174, isn't it?

Henri K.


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## Beidou2020

We need:

12 type 052D and 30 type 055.
25 type 057.
30 type 056.


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## UKBengali

Beidou2020 said:


> We need:
> 
> 12 type 052D and 30 type 055.
> 25 type 057.
> 30 type 056.



China would have a surface fleet as powerful as the US then.

I think that this looks like a good level for China to aim for as the Chinese would not require a much more powerful Navy than the US to safeguard their interests around the world.

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## Beidou2020

UKBengali said:


> China would have a surface fleet as powerful as the US then.
> 
> I think that this looks like a good level for China to aim for as the Chinese would not require a much more powerful Navy than the US to safeguard their interests around the world.



US has an empire military.

So we don't need to have an empire military, we just need a very powerful military to keep the Yankees in check.

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## cirr

DDG 173(2nd Type 052D) seen going through sea trials

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## Beast

GOOD GOOD!!! They need to pump out these beast as fast as possible. The world situation is changing rapidly. PLAN has quickly acquire these powerful offensive asset to project its overseas strike firepower.

H-9K, Type052D and CV-16 will allow PLA armed forces for the first time able to project offensive fire power with LACM and precision strike ammo few thousands kilometres away from home soil.


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## Oldman1

Beidou2020 said:


> US has an empire military.
> 
> So we don't need to have an empire military, we just need a very powerful military to keep the Yankees in check.



We have a military to keep China from expanding its border to conquer other countries. Everybody knows that. Even amongst the Asian nations that are afraid of it. Cause they know China is hungry.


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## english_man

Beidou2020 said:


> US has an empire military.
> 
> So we don't need to have an empire military, we just need a very powerful military to keep the Yankees in check.



Exactly........China doesnt need a Navy the size of the US to be powerful.............remember the US is surrounded by 2 massive oceans............and they could never send the vast majority of their warships into a conflict, as it would leave themselves exposed.
Exposed to what?..............a possible invasion from Mexico or Canada!.........haha.

Anyway, as China is now entering the next stage of its military modenization, and that means we should be seeing some very large ticket items being built, and that means carriers, amphibious ships, and or course the Type 055 Destroyer.


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## Oldman1

english_man said:


> Exactly........China doesnt need a Navy the size of the US to be powerful.............remember the US is surrounded by 2 massive oceans............and they could never send the vast majority of their warships into a conflict, as it would leave themselves exposed.
> Exposed to what?..............a possible invasion from Mexico or Canada!.........haha.
> 
> Anyway, as China is now entering the next stage of its military modenization, and that means we should be seeing some very large ticket items being built, and that means carriers, amphibious ships, and or course the Type 055 Destroyer.



You don't even make sense. History has shown the need for a powerful navy especially considering 70 percent of the planet is mostly water. You think you don't need a navy the size of ours or reaching out over the horizon beyond the Pacific? Then please explain why China is sending ships to deal with anti-piracy operations in the Indian Ocean even though it has nothing to do with them?


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## j20blackdragon

Oldman1 said:


> You don't even make sense. History has shown the need for a powerful navy especially considering 70 percent of the planet is mostly water. You think you don't need a navy the size of ours or reaching out over the horizon beyond the Pacific? Then please explain why China is sending ships to deal with anti-piracy operations in the Indian Ocean even though it has nothing to do with them?



Learn some geography.
Asia is one large landmass. China can actually *drive* across Asia...and then into Africa and Europe if we choose. It's all land connected.







China produced over 22 million vehicles in 2013. Do the math.

Production Statistics | OICA






In the meantime, here are more pics.

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## english_man

Oldman1 said:


> You don't even make sense. History has shown the need for a powerful navy especially considering 70 percent of the planet is mostly water. You think you don't need a navy the size of ours or reaching out over the horizon beyond the Pacific? Then please explain why China is sending ships to deal with anti-piracy operations in the Indian Ocean even though it has nothing to do with them?



Umm......yes i could of phrased my post better........

What i was implying was, that unlike most other nations in *today's* world, the size of the US Navy, is far larger than it needs to be for the defensive purpose of the USA...........where in reality, the US Navy is designed for offence!

ps...........i do make sense (i think! )

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## cnleio

Sea trial started for the 2nd *052D* DDG, also will join PLAN this year

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## Oldman1

english_man said:


> Umm......yes i could of phrased my post better........
> 
> What i was implying was, that unlike most other nations in *today's* world, the size of the US Navy, is far larger than it needs to be for the defensive purpose of the USA...........where in reality, the US Navy is designed for offence!
> 
> ps...........i do make sense (i think! )



Indeed, offense is the best defense, you of all people should know that. Lessons learned from WW2. Why else would the Chinese want an aircraft carrier? Japan is right there, South Korea is right there, Vietnam is right there, I mean China invaded Vietnam without the need for carriers. Then you have the Philippines which is nearby as well as Malaysia. All within range of your bombers and cruise missiles as most Chinese posters have claimed.

And next time phrased your post better as you said.



j20blackdragon said:


> Learn some geography.
> Asia is one large landmass. China can actually *drive* across Asia...and then into Africa and Europe if we choose. It's all land connected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China produced over 22 million vehicles in 2013. Do the math.
> 
> Production Statistics | OICA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the meantime, here are more pics.



Oh wow you can drive across Asia that don't mean your trade with other countries is all concentrated on land. Even you should know that.


----------



## yjscofield

cnleio said:


>


nice picture. do you have more?


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## cirr

english_man said:


> Umm......yes i could of phrased my post better........
> 
> What i was implying was, that unlike most other nations in *today's* world, the size of the US Navy, is far larger than it needs to be for the defensive purpose of the USA...........where in reality, the US Navy is designed for offence!
> 
> ps...........i do make sense (i think! )



Let the US be what it is，i.e. world police。It will bankrupt the country sooner or later。

No police


Beast said:


> GOOD GOOD!!! They need to pump out these beast as fast as possible. The world situation is changing rapidly. PLAN has quickly acquire these powerful offensive asset to project its overseas strike firepower.
> 
> H-9K, Type052D and CV-16 will allow PLA armed forces for the first time able to project offensive fire power with LACM and precision strike ammo few thousands kilometres away from home soil.



They can easily pump out

And with SWS joining


cnleio said:


> Sea trial started for the 2nd *052D* DDG, also will join PLAN this year



Early days yet。PLAN has plan to build over 20 052Ds and 052Es。

Plus dozens of 055s、055As、055Bs。

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## Genesis

cirr said:


> Let the US be what it is，i.e. world police。It will bankrupt the country sooner or later。
> 
> No police
> 
> 
> They can easily pump out
> 
> And with SWS joining
> 
> 
> Early days yet。PLAN has plan to build over 20 052Ds and 052Es。
> 
> Plus dozens of 055s、055As、055Bs。



For that many ships I'm not sure about it. It's too many, and yet not enough. IF we have such a navy, we must take a stand on international issues, this is bad while our internal economy is still developing. 

On the other hand we would need oversea bases which isn't difficult, but again we would be forced into a situation like the US, they don't want to help, but they can't back away either. Stuck in the middle.

Even Singapore a small nation has disputes with indonesia, who do we piss off? We can't piss off either, like current Japan Korea situation, America once again stuck in the middle. 


I support a new system of proxy states, like we make someone else the defining state in an organization, like ASEAN, but have some influence in it, but try to keep it limited in times of peace and no tension. This way we can stay out of things and have the puppet take the brunt of the hate. 

American's system of over involvement is a system that has failed, it's showing cracks. We must not go down that road. 


I'm more interested in carriers and LHDs, air power as proven in WW2 and later is the key to power projection and naval battles. We are not really much behind on warships any more, now the focus should be these massive ships to match US's naval air power and projection power.


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## cnleio

cirr said:


> Let the US be what it is，i.e. world police。It will bankrupt the country sooner or later。
> 
> No police
> 
> 
> They can easily pump out
> 
> And with SWS joining
> 
> 
> Early days yet。PLAN has plan to build over 20 052Ds and 052Es。
> 
> Plus dozens of 055s、055As、055Bs。


What's 052E DDG, bro ???



yjscofield said:


> nice picture. do you have more?


Nup, only one pic. It's PSed by 1st 052D DDG original sea trial photo.


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## Beidou2020

China need to concentrate on submarines and surface ships first.

Surface Ships:
Type 055/A/B cruiser
Type 052D/E destroyer
Type 054A and Type 057 frigate
Type 056/A corvette
Type 022 patrol vessel

Submarines:
Type 095 SSN
Type 096 SSBN
Type 041 SSK

Capital Ships:
Type 071/A LPD
Type 075 LHD

Aircraft Carriers take far too long to build and come be commissioned and don't offer a game changing advantage.

In addition to combat vessels, PLAN should get more Type 903 AOR and Type 081/A minesweeper.


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## hk299792458

Beidou2020 said:


> China need to concentrate on submarines and surface ships first.
> 
> Surface Ships:
> Type 055/A/B cruiser
> Type 052D/E destroyer
> Type 054A and Type 057 frigate
> Type 056/A corvette
> Type 022 patrol vessel
> 
> Submarines:
> Type 095 SSN
> Type 096 SSBN
> Type 041 SSK
> 
> Capital Ships:
> Type 071/A LPD
> Type 075 LHD
> 
> Aircraft Carriers take far too long to build and come be commissioned and don't offer a game changing advantage.
> 
> In addition to combat vessels, PLAN should get more Type 903 AOR and Type 081/A minesweeper.



Type 055A/B, Type 052E, Type 057, Type 041, Type 075 are all, for the moment, wrong refence numbers.

The NG post-Type 054A frigate might not call Type 057.

Type 041 doesn't exist.

And the coming LHD doesn't call Type 075.

Henri K.


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## Brainsucker

I become confuse here. 052E, 055, 055A, 055B... etc. How can you know that? There is no information about this. I know about the 055 rumor, but still, is it already official, or still rumor?


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## cnleio

Brainsucker said:


> I become confuse here. 052E, 055, 055A, 055B... etc. How can you know that? There is no information about this. I know about the 055 rumor, but still, is it already official, or still rumor?


055 yes, it will build end of 2014 or beginning of 2015. But others ... well i also 1st time to hear that.


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## Beast

2 Type52 together

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## cnleio

Beast said:


> 2 Type52 together


PLAN East Sea Fleet, ZhouShan military port. 2nd 052D DDG start sea trial.


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## Oldman1

Beidou2020 said:


> China need to concentrate on submarines and surface ships first.
> 
> Surface Ships:
> Type 055/A/B cruiser
> Type 052D/E destroyer
> Type 054A and Type 057 frigate
> Type 056/A corvette
> Type 022 patrol vessel
> 
> Submarines:
> Type 095 SSN
> Type 096 SSBN
> Type 041 SSK
> 
> Capital Ships:
> Type 071/A LPD
> Type 075 LHD
> 
> Aircraft Carriers take far too long to build and come be commissioned and don't offer a game changing advantage.
> 
> In addition to combat vessels, PLAN should get more Type 903 AOR and Type 081/A minesweeper.



The Chinese military disagrees with that assessment on not building carriers.



cirr said:


> Let the US be what it is，i.e. world police。It will bankrupt the country sooner or later。
> 
> No police
> 
> 
> They can easily pump out
> 
> And with SWS joining
> 
> 
> Early days yet。PLAN has plan to build over 20 052Ds and 052Es。
> 
> Plus dozens of 055s、055As、055Bs。



Keep building those warships. Going to need many if you want to take on U.S. as well as other countries in Asia.


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## cnleio

Oldman1 said:


> Keep building those warships. Going to need many if you want to take on U.S. as well as other countries in Asia.



Relax bro. The Great Pacific always has enough space for both America and China, in future we still need work together.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The footage of 173 sailing in Shoushan by GoodBoy.

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## hk299792458

The first 4 Type 052D destroyers.






Henri K.

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## hk299792458

1st and 4th Type 052D destroyers















































Henri K.

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## ChineseTiger1986



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## cirr

DDG 173

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## cnleio

2014 Two 052D DDG (N.o172 and N.o173) can join PLAN East Sea Fleet, next year another Two 052D. 

I like this building speed of 'made in China'. I think in 2015 China can own 10x AESA destroyers.

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## 帅的一匹

造这么多军舰有什么用？菲律宾昨天已经成功突破我们的海监船闯入仁爱礁，人员轮换和食品补给都已经完成。中国人的悲哀！！国耻！猪一样的无能政府！

以后在南海菲律宾人会更加肆无忌惮，更加不把中国放在眼里。做中国人真心没劲啊！外交部又他妈在抗议了！我操你大爷！


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## Genesis

wanglaokan said:


> 造这么多军舰有什么用？菲律宾昨天已经成功突破我们的海监船闯入仁爱礁，人员轮换和食品补给都已经完成。中国人的悲哀！！国耻！猪一样的无能政府！
> 
> 以后在南海菲律宾人会更加肆无忌惮，更加不把中国放在眼里。做中国人真心没劲啊！外交部又他妈在抗议了！我操你大爷！



lol calm down. If it's just the Philippines, it's nothing.

America spend over close to 200 years industrializing and working hard, dying in wars and sweating just as we have. We need more time. Just as the Chinese the Americans charged to their death on the beaches of Normandy, fought without giving up in Korea, and worked just as hard as us in economy and innovation.

We need more time to match them, it would be an insult to them and us if these things can be done over night.


Think of our forefathers, dying the WW2 with no hope of attaining the status we have, our great grand and great grandfathers who didn't get to see the result of their great sacrifice. We are living in an exciting time, we are seeing change before our eyes.

Philippines will get theirs, 夜郎自大.

Lastly, our restraint is a sign of strength, only out of weakness do the Philippines continue to test our patience. A strong man doesn't need to prove himself, a weak man does. See their act for what it is, desperation.

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## xuxu1457

wanglaokan said:


> 造这么多军舰有什么用？菲律宾昨天已经成功突破我们的海监船闯入仁爱礁，人员轮换和食品补给都已经完成。中国人的悲哀！！国耻！猪一样的无能政府！
> 
> 以后在南海菲律宾人会更加肆无忌惮，更加不把中国放在眼里。做中国人真心没劲啊！外交部又他妈在抗议了！我操你大爷！


 中国封锁仁爱礁半年内这是第一次有船突破封锁，上次两艘送建筑材料的被赶跑了，以前没有这么多军舰海警船时候，人家不是天天自由行？愿意哪天来哪天来，现在起码密密麻麻的菲律宾渔船没有敢来的了。看看船大小就知道了，这次他们船上竟然一堆记者，无耻呀，不好意思直接撞它，看下次他还能不能来了吧

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## nomi007



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## hk299792458

China can't do 2 things -

China can't let the Philippines marines die on the half-sunk LSD, this is a kind of moral / international communication constraint
China can't let the Philippines extend or build any fix structure around the sunk LSD
Based on this observation, I don't see for what reason it is a problem... They have sucessfully block the Philippines attempt to access with building material, but let the boat to bring food and water to the LSD, 2 objectifs are fulfilled.

Moreover, please back to the topic.

====================

March 30th, 172 Kunming which is the first shop of the class left Jianan Shipyard









































The second ship is still in sea trial











Henri K.

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## hk299792458

The 4th ship is launched (on the left hand side) whereas the 3rd ship is still under construction (on the right)
















And the 5th ship is already put on dry dock
















Henri K.

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## Beast

hk299792458 said:


> China can't do 2 things -
> 
> China can't let the Philippines marines die on the half-sunk LSD, this is a kind of moral / international communication constraint
> China can't let the Philippines extend or build any fix structure around the sunk LSD
> Based on this observation, I don't see for what reason it is a problem... They have sucessfully block the Philippines attempt to access with building material, but let the boat to bring food and water to the LSD, 2 objectifs are fulfilled.
> 
> 
> Henri K.



China can do the third that is use many patrol boats armed with high pressure water cannon to foam an effective circular blockade around the ground PN ship. Even a fish will not sneak thru it. If helo try to air drop. Water cannon will knock it off from its direction.

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## 帅的一匹

xuxu1457 said:


> 中国封锁仁爱礁半年内这是第一次有船突破封锁，上次两艘送建筑材料的被赶跑了，以前没有这么多军舰海警船时候，人家不是天天自由行？愿意哪天来哪天来，现在起码密密麻麻的菲律宾渔船没有敢来的了。看看船大小就知道了，这次他们船上竟然一堆记者，无耻呀，不好意思直接撞它，看下次他还能不能来了吧


貌似我们的政府对付无赖缺乏手段


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## CN.Black

xuxu1457 said:


> 中国封锁仁爱礁半年内这是第一次有船突破封锁，上次两艘送建筑材料的被赶跑了，以前没有这么多军舰海警船时候，人家不是天天自由行？愿意哪天来哪天来，现在起码密密麻麻的菲律宾渔船没有敢来的了。看看船大小就知道了，这次他们船上竟然一堆记者，无耻呀，不好意思直接撞它，看下次他还能不能来了吧


 治大国如烹小鲜，必须要谨慎而为之，反正岛就在那儿，菲律宾永远也拿不走，到了时候自然会解决的

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## cnleio

China 3rd and 4th 052D DDG launched, next year will finish. 5th 052D shipbody building in shipyard.

3rd and 4th 052D DDG lauched, stay together















5th 052D DDG building

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## mado yu

crazy speed


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## hk299792458

2nd Type 052D and 5th Type 052C






Henri K.

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## hk299792458

172 Kunming and the 6th Type 052C 153 Xi'an behind






From left to right, the 2nd, the 4th and the 3rd Type 052D.






The 5th is on dock and the 6th is in state of modules.

Henri K.

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## ChineseTiger1986

I wonder where is the port that 172 is docking right now.

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## Brainsucker

I want to hugs 052D, she's very beautiful

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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I wonder where is the port that 172 is docking right now.


This pic in QingDao, N.o172 052D will join PLAN East Sea Fleet. The delivery will be in this month.

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## GeHAC

cnleio said:


> This pic in QingDao, N.o172 052D will join PLAN East Sea Fleet. The delivery will be in this month.


I tend to believe DDG172 will join 2nd destroyer detachment，South Sea Fleet

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## cnleio

GeHAC said:


> I tend to believe DDG172 will join 2nd destroyer detachment，South Sea Fleet


News from CJDBY, to join PLAN East Sea Fleet.

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## GeHAC

mado yu said:


> crazy speed


2 DDG a year.Still a normal speed,too many 051s to retire.

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## GeHAC

cnleio said:


> News from CJDBY, to join PLAN East Sea Fleet.


Join 6th detachment?Umm,It's time for 133 134 to retire

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## cirr

The planned volume production of 052Ds will be curtailed for 052Es and/or Type 055s。

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## cnleio

2nd 052D DDG "N.o173" ready !

Pic of "N.o172" and "N.o173" together:

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## Brainsucker

cirr said:


> The planned volume production of 052Ds will be curtailed for 052Es and/or Type 055s。



Wait, what? So we won't see more and more 052D in the future because of 052E? But what will 052E improve from 052D? I thought 052D is the ultimate 052 Hull ship because of the limitation of the hull size.


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## cnleio

Brainsucker said:


> Wait, what? So we won't see more and more 052D in the future because of 052E? But what will 052E improve from 052D? I thought 052D is the ultimate 052 Hull ship because of the limitation of the hull size.


Don't know 052E, as far as we knew 055 DDG will be the next.


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## cnleio

Building more 052D DDGs for the Navy.

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## cirr

I want to see #5 launched within a month or so and #6 taking up shape for floating-out in Q1 2015.

In the meantime DLS should get a move on with its share of the 052D DDG building programme。

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> I want to see #5 launched within a month or so and #6 taking up shape for floating-out in Q1 2015.
> 
> In the meantime DLS should get a move on with its share of the 052D DDG building programme。


I want to see 055 DDG building, these 052D can't attract my attention...

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## cirr

cnleio said:


> I want to see 055 DDG building, these 052D can't attract my attention...



Overlapping。


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## xuxu1457



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## GeHAC

xuxu1457 said:


>


052D 5#?


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## xuxu1457

GeHAC said:


> 052D 5#?


I don't know the No. of the 052D


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## english_man

GeHAC said:


> 052D 5#?



Must be No.5...........I believe it was launched on the 27th August.

Definitely cant be No.6.......not even the Chinese can build a 7000 tonne warship in 7-8 weeks. 

How come...... photo's only appear now? ............and please add some text.


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## Brainsucker

english_man said:


> Must be No.5...........I believe it was launched on the 27th August.
> 
> Definitely cant be No.6.......not even the Chinese can build a 7000 tonne warship in 7-8 weeks.
> 
> How come...... photo's only appear now? ............and please add some text.



Maybe they built it somewhere else? But I think you're right. it must be the fifth. BTW, how can you know that it is a 52D? It's hard to notice the ship type from this angle. Or maybe I should look at the photo more cautiously


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## Beast

Brainsucker said:


> Maybe they built it somewhere else? But I think you're right. it must be the fifth. BTW, how can you know that it is a 52D? It's hard to notice the ship type from this angle. Or maybe I should look at the photo more cautiously


 Did you look more carefully at the bridge of the large AESA panel compare to the smaller one of the Type052C.

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## english_man

Yep.................that's an 052D alright................one interesting point, and its hard to tell from the angle of the photo shot........is that, that doesn't look like the shed at 'JN' where all the other 052D's have been made.
The shed so far used for 052D construction is a double shed, with a blue roof, and from the front the 052D's have so far been constructed in the right hand hallway. Or am I not seeing things right?  ...............nice photo though!

Shame the member who posted this image had not written some text, then we would probably know more!  

Its hard work gathering data, when some of you guys are so lazzzzzzzzzzzzzy, to post anything meaningful on these forums............as it just leads to a lot of replies from other members who are confused due to the lack of info.


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## Beast

english_man said:


> Yep.................that's an 052D alright................one interesting point, and its hard to tell from the angle of the photo shot........is that, that doesn't look like the shed at 'JN' where all the other 052D's have been made.
> The shed so far used for 052D construction is a double shed, with a blue roof, and from the front the 052D's have so far been constructed in the right hand hallway. Or am I not seeing things right?  ...............nice photo though!
> 
> Shame the member who posted this image had not written some text, then we would probably know more!
> 
> Its hard work gathering data, when some of you guys are so lazzzzzzzzzzzzzy, to post anything meaningful on these forums............as it just leads to a lot of replies from other members who are confused due to the lack of info.





If not JN then will it be at Dalian?


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## 帅的一匹

if the scenario in the picture happened in Dalian, then it's very good news for PLA navy.


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## cirr

english_man said:


> Yep.................that's an 052D alright................one interesting point, and its hard to tell from the angle of the photo shot........is that, that doesn't look like the shed at 'JN' where all the other 052D's have been made.
> The shed so far used for 052D construction is a double shed, with a blue roof, and from the front the 052D's have so far been constructed in the right hand hallway. Or am I not seeing things right?  ...............nice photo though!
> 
> Shame the member who posted this image had not written some text, then we would probably know more!
> 
> Its hard work gathering data, when some of you guys are so lazzzzzzzzzzzzzy, to post anything meaningful on these forums............as it just leads to a lot of replies from other members who are confused due to the lack of info.



A very old pic taken when D1 rolled out from the LEFT shed。

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## CN.Black

xuxu1457 said:


>


 Damn!The 5th 052D has been launched.Who can tell me which fleet this ship will join?


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## AMDR

CN.Black said:


> Damn!The 5th 052D has been launched.Who can tell me which fleet this ship will join?


probably east sea fleet


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## ChineseTiger1986

AMDR said:


> probably east sea fleet



The North Sea Fleet, since they are still waiting for their first Aegis type of DDG.


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## cnleio

052C & 052D & 055 DDG

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## Brainsucker

I have a question, what kind ECM that the 052D has?


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## cnleio

1st 052D "N.o172" in PLAN











2nd 052D "N.o173" sea trial

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## cnleio

2nd 052D N.o173 sea trial

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## cnleio

2014.12
China 6th 052D DDG launched in JN shipyard 










3rd & 4th 052D DDG






5th 052D DDG







If everything is fine in 2015, i think we will see these 5x new 052D join PLAN in this year.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> 2014.12
> China 6th 052D DDG launched in JN shipyard
> View attachment 181430
> 
> View attachment 181431
> 
> 
> 
> 3rd & 4th 052D DDG
> View attachment 181432
> 
> 
> 
> 5th 052D DDG
> View attachment 181429
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If everything is fine in 2015, i think we will see these 5x new 052D join PLAN in this year.



I think by 2015, we will have the fourth Type 052D entering into the service, and the Type 052D from DL will perhaps wait until 2017.


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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think by 2015, we will have the fourth Type 052D entering into the service, and the Type 052D from DL will perhaps wait until 2017.


As far as i read, the DaLian shipyard started to build 052D together now the fragments inisde shipyard ... so this year we will see DaLian's 052D out.

Look at these JN's 5x new 052D shipbodys ... 2nd now sea trial 100% finished, 3rd finished 90% ready for sea trial after months, 4th & 5th finished 80% month ago (i provided not latest pics), now 6th launched (at 12.30) ... as far as current CSSC building speed, i believe at least these new 052D can join PLAN or sea trial in this 2015.

I didn't talk a JOKE here. 6x 052C + 6x 052D in 2015







China 052D DDG CG

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> As far as i read, the DaLian shipyard started to build 052D together now the fragments inisde shipyard ... so this year we will see DaLian's 052D out.
> 
> Look at these JN's 5x new 052D shipbodys ... 2nd now sea trial 100% finished, 3rd finished 90% ready for sea trial after months, 4th & 5th finished 80% month ago (i provided not latest pics), now 6th launched (at 12.30) ... as far as current CSSC building speed, i believe at least these new 052D can join PLAN or sea trial in this 2015.
> 
> I didn't talk a JOKE here. 6x 052C + 6x 052D in 2015
> 
> View attachment 181563
> 
> 
> 
> China 052D DDG CG
> 
> View attachment 181564
> View attachment 181565
> View attachment 181566
> View attachment 181567
> View attachment 181568
> View attachment 181569



I still think 6 x 052C + 4 x 052D will be in service by the end of 2015.


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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I still think 6 x 052C + 4 x 052D will be in service by the end of 2015.


OKay, rest 2x 052D in sea trial ... anyway i mean all JN's 052D will 100% finish in 2015.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> OKay, rest 2x 052D in sea trial ... anyway i mean all JN's 052D will 100% finish in 2015.



Indeed, all JN Type 052D will be launched by 2015.


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## BDforever

cnleio said:


> OKay, rest 2x 052D in sea trial ... anyway i mean all JN's 052D will 100% finish in 2015.


any news about BD ?

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## cirr

BDforever said:


> any news about BD ?



BD doesn't need ships as large as 052D。

Heavily armed corvettes and FFGs are enough to defend BD‘s maritime rights。

Better save the money for other endeavours，such as infrastructure。

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## BDforever

cirr said:


> BD doesn't need ships as large as 052D。
> 
> Heavily armed corvettes and FFGs are enough to defend BD‘s maritime rights。
> 
> Better save the money for other endeavours，such as infrastructure。


i want 055 now

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## 帅的一匹

cirr said:


> BD doesn't need ships as large as 052D。
> 
> Heavily armed corvettes and FFGs are enough to defend BD‘s maritime rights。
> 
> Better save the money for other endeavours，such as infrastructure。


052D is super perfect for BD navy @BDforever

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## ChineseTiger1986

wanglaokan said:


> 052D is super perfect for BD navy @BDforever



I think the Type 052D is more suitable for Pakistan, while the Type 054A is more suitable for Bangladesh.

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## 592257001

BDforever said:


> i want 055 now



Even the 052D's role as sea-borne BMD platform and LACM launching platform would be "wasted" if it is inducted into service by BN, since it would be much more economic/effective if BD purchases ground-based HQ-9A SAM and ground-based DH-10 LACM instead to fulfill the same functionality if BD requires them. 

I still believe the 054A as the most suitable vessel for the BN in the capacity as an AAW/ASuW Flagship.Think about how many 054A BN could obtain for the price of one Type 052D or a Type 055!




(Within the picture is 4 Type 054A+1 Type 052D and 1 Type 052C of the South China Fleet)

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## CN.Black

Latest pics of 052D

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## cnleio

052D DDG-172

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## cnleio

2014 building pic in China DaLian shipyard, DaLian 052D's VLS

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## GeHAC

cnleio said:


> 2014 building pic in China DaLian shipyard, DaLian 052D's VLS
> 
> 
> View attachment 186552


The length of the VLS is no longer a mystery now.

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## cnleio

052D DDG-173

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## cirr

DDG 173 is ready for induction。

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## Beast

cirr said:


> DDG 173 is ready for induction。


Yes, please induct it by end of this month.

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## Penguin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think the Type 052D is more suitable for Pakistan, while the Type 054A is more suitable for Bangladesh.


I think both examples as totally unrealistic (i.e. well outside the applicable nations means and needs)


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## cnleio

JN shipyard, 2x 052C(N.o151 & N.o153) and 2x 052D (3rd, 4th 052D) ready soon

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## cnleio

VLS on 052D

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## cnleio

2015.02 4th 052D launched & sea-trial

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## j20blackdragon



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## 帅的一匹

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think the Type 052D is more suitable for Pakistan, while the Type 054A is more suitable for Bangladesh.


BD has 160 millions population, which means it maybe more capable than Pakistan in some aspects. Don't underestimate BD my friends, their poteinal consumption ability is even beyond Pakistan. We shall put emphasis on BD in the future! Pakistan is our traditional ally, they shall go for something better than what they have now.

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## cnleio

4th & 5th new 052D DDGs building ...

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## Basel

wanglaokan said:


> BD has 160 millions population, which means it maybe more capable than Pakistan in some aspects. Don't underestimate BD my friends, their poteinal consumption ability is even beyond Pakistan. We shall put emphasis on BD in the future! Pakistan is our traditional ally, they shall go for something better than what they have now.



Pakistan's population is more then 180 million and Navy is not based on population, its based on National Interest and threat perception and BD don't face threat like Pakistan does, as Pakistan was threatened by IN in past (1971 war) and Pakistan don't want that, and to avoid that they need area air defense ships with long range, endurance and large weapons capabilities with fully Net Centric Warfare enabled so they can face IN's CBGs in deep ocean where they will try to blockade Pakistani sea lines as coming close to coast can cause serious harm to them due to robust coastal defense capabilities of PN.

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## cnleio

DaLian shipyard of North China, 1st new 052D DDG building ...











JiangNan shipyard of South China, 4th & 5th new 052D DDGs building ...

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## cnleio

China plan to build 20+ 052D-class DDGs ...

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## cnleio

3rd 052D DDG-174 "HeFei" ready soon

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## cnleio

Wiki: China 10x 052D DDGs launch & serve schedule

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## Azeri440

cnleio said:


> China plan to build 20+ 052D-class DDGs ...
> 
> View attachment 200661



How long do you think it would take China to build up to 20 052Ds ?


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## xuxu1457

Azeri440 said:


> How long do you think it would take China to build up to 20 052Ds ?


I think will be 6-10years, now only one ship yard buids 052D, 2 enter service per year now, and another shipyard will buid too, so I think will be 6~10years to complete 20 052D

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## cnleio

Azeri440 said:


> How long do you think it would take China to build up to 20 052Ds ?


Before 2025.

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## cirr

Azeri440 said:


> How long do you think it would take China to build up to 20 052Ds ?



Before 2018 if there are indeed 20 052Ds to be built。

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## Genesis

cirr said:


> Before 2018 if there are indeed 20 052Ds to be built。


it would be longer, military just don't seem like a priority right now.

When the Soviets and Americans were doing the arms race they were going all out, they pretty much launch as many ships a month as we do a year. 

There's no reason we need to rush, we can't beat the US quickly and what we have right now is more than enough to handle the situation.

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## cirr

Genesis said:


> it would be longer, military just don't seem like a priority right now.
> 
> When the Soviets and Americans were doing the arms race they were going all out, they pretty much launch as many ships a month as we do a year.
> 
> There's no reason we need to rush, we can't beat the US quickly and what we have right now is more than enough to handle the situation.



There will be 9 or 10 built by the end of 2015.

JN and DL（see below）can easily build 3-4 a year between them。

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## cnleio

China 052D install anti-aircraft missile

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## HRM YANG

cnleio said:


> China 052D install anti-aircraft missile
> 
> View attachment 213399
> View attachment 213400


HQ-9 Long range surface-Air Missile


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## Beast

HRM YANG said:


> HQ-9 Long range surface-Air Missile


So the system is really a combo of hot launch and cold launch. The first in the world.

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## HRM YANG

Beast said:


> So the system is really a combo of hot launch and cold launch. The first in the world.





Beast said:


> So the system is really a combo of hot launch and cold launch. The first in the world.


Yes, in one vertical launch system

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## cnleio

> _What a beautiful line up ! _
> _GEDOI 3/29/2015 *Type52D X5,Type52C X1*, CCG12KT cutters X2, Wozang X2 & LCAC X2_

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## xuxu1457



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## cnleio

JN 3rd 052D launched, DDG-174






JN 4th 052D building, DDG-175






JN 5th and 6th 052D building






JN 8th 052D start building


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## cnleio

North China, DaLian type052D DDG building

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## Deino

cnleio said:


> North China, DaLian type052D DDG building




Interesting ! So Jane's assumes this new ship under construction not a carrier ... but why ??

Deino


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## cnleio

Deino said:


> Interesting ! So Jane's assumes this new ship under construction not a carrier ... but why ??
> 
> Deino


Jane's has no answer, so didn't confirm whether it's a carrier ... and that satellite photos of DaLian shipyard is 2015-03-10 ... very old photos.

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## Deino

That's exactly my point - esp. since I don't know it - that they simply give no argument why they believe it not to be a carrier.

Deino

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## Globenim

cnleio said:


> North China, DaLian type052D DDG building



Can anyone please tell me what those white spots are on the ground. Are those painted on the photo or real markers?
I looked at old photos of the yard and didn't saw dots like that on the ground.

I thought I was seeing things... sSo I dropped this 1:1 scale photo of vessel 01 when docked at Dalian over it and well you can see yourself... 







thats quite some many coincidences...

Edit: But then again if you only connect the outer ones and account for shadows hiding the bottom ones it could look like another freighter, buts that'd be a weird foundation.

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## Deino

Could it be that these dots are related to the previously build tanker ?? Size-wise it fits quite nicely if You look at the third image in the images in post [HASHTAG]#562[/HASHTAG] ?


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## cnleio

Globenim said:


> Can anyone please tell me what those white spots are on the ground. Are those painted on the photo or real markers?
> I looked at old photos of the yard and didn't saw dots like that on the ground.
> 
> I thought I was seeing things... sSo I dropped this 1:1 scale photo of vessel 01 when docked at Dalian over it and well you can see yourself...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thats quite some many coincidences...
> 
> Edit: But then again if you only connect the outer ones and account for shadows hiding the bottom ones it could look like another freighter, buts that'd be a weird foundation.


Ship modules building ... those ship modules need the reference point on ground.

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## Globenim

Deino said:


> Could it be that these dots are related to the previously build tanker ?? Size-wise it fits quite nicely if You look at the third image in the images in post [HASHTAG]#562[/HASHTAG] ?



Meant to say tanker not freighter in my edit. Yeah seems like that. 
Carrier ship hull probably wouldn't need blocks laying arround at that position. 

But then again the existing structure in the center doesn't strike me as a tanker either.


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## cnleio

3rd 052D, DDG-174 sea trial

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## cnleio

2012 ~ 2018, China 12x 052D-class DDGs building list (source: wiki)

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## hk299792458

The number of ships ordered so far is around 18, and this will not be the final number. At least 4 out of that will be built in Dalian.

Henri K.

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## cnleio

hk299792458 said:


> The number of ships ordered so far is around 18, and this will not be the final number. At least 4 out of that will be built in Dalian.
> 
> Henri K.


Can China Navy have World N.o2 biggest air-defense destroyer fleets until to 2020 ? ... 052C + 052D + 055 DDG numbers in 2020 ? Ths!

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## cnleio

3x 052D and 2x 052C DDGs joint PLAN South Sea Fleet

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## XiaoYaoZi

cnleio said:


> 3x 052D and 2x 052C DDGs joint PLAN South Sea Fleet


3x052D, 2x052C, 3x054A, 1x056

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## cnleio

2nd 052D-class N.o173 'ChangSha' serving in PLAN

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> 2nd 052D-class N.o173 'ChangSha' serving in PLAN


I think 174 has high chance of joining the fleet end of year.

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## Martian2

*Type 052D Chinese Aegis launch dates*
*









Kunming, China's first Type 052D destroyer. (Internet photo)*

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## cnleio

PLAN 052D-class N.o173 DDG

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## HRM YANG

testing now


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## cnleio

News report China type052D VLS cells & command room




























DDG-175 4th 052D-class DDG is ready for sea trial

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## cnleio

The first type052D DDG built by North China DaLian shipyard ... type052D fleet building as fast as we can.

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## Beast

174 commissioned and 175 behind soon....






By these speed, and end of next year we will have 6-7 Type052D excluding 6 old Type052C. That will be enough to match JMSDF Navy of destroyer.

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## terranMarine

Don't forget our first Type 055 will be ready for testing next year.


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## Deino

terranMarine said:


> Don't forget our first Type 055 will be ready for testing next year.




To admit so far we haven't seen any proof that it is already under construction and even if (most likely) I don't think that it will be ready for testing next year. How long does it normally take from launch in a shipyard of a DDG to first shake-up cruise ?


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## terranMarine

Deino said:


> To admit so far we haven't seen any proof that it is already under construction and even if (most likely) I don't think that it will be ready for testing next year. How long does it normally take from launch in a shipyard of a DDG to first shake-up cruise ?



Well here is the rumor it has started already, again no solid proof so we just have to be patient Type 055 DDG News & Discussions | Page 21

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## cnleio

Beast said:


> 174 commissioned and 175 behind soon....
> 
> View attachment 277818
> 
> 
> By these speed, and end of next year we will have 6-7 Type052D excluding 6 old Type052C. That will be enough to match JMSDF Navy of destroyer.


N.o175 052D won't join PLAN South Sea Fleet, they already has 2x 052C + 3x 052D ... new N.o175 will joint East Sea Fleet, East Sea Fleet now has 4x 052C will add 052D DDGs since 2016.

12x 052C/D still not enough for China ... i had said 052C/D numbers at least > 30x building as many as we can.  *One thing i can make sure, there'r 13~14x 052C/D DDGs on active service in PLAN until to end of 2016 year.*

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> N.o175 052D won't join PLAN South Sea Fleet, they already has 2x 052C + 3x 052D ... new N.o175 will joint East Sea Fleet, East Sea Fleet now has 4x 052C will add 052D DDGs since 2016.
> 
> 12x 052C/D still not enough for China ... i had said 052C/D numbers at least > 30x building as many as we can.  *One thing i can make sure, there'r 13~14x 052C/D DDGs on active service in PLAN until to end of 2016 year.*



Type052D is not a very good platform to form bulk of PLAN major warship. By increasing the tonnage of Type052D from 7500tons to 13000tons of Type055, you get double the amount of VLS, double amount of ASW helo w/o building another platform. It is more cost effective. If PLAN has 16 Type055 cruiser, she will be unrivaled by any countries navy by a miles except USN. The firepower of a 055 cruiser is equal to a Kirov class battlecruiser.

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## cnleio

Beast said:


> Type052D is not a very good platform to form bulk of PLAN major warship. By increasing the tonnage of Type052D from 7500tons to 13000tons of Type055, you get double the amount of VLS, double amount of ASW helo w/o building another platform. It is more cost effective. If PLAN has 16 Type055 cruiser, she will be unrivaled by any countries navy by a miles except USN. The firepower of a 055 cruiser is equal to a Kirov class battlecruiser.


How do u think 052D is not a good platform for PLAN ? the 055 has 12,000 ton with 100+ VLS cells but it means more expensive than 052D 7,000+ ton with 64x VLS cells ... maybe PLAN don't need too many expensive 055 but need many cheaper 052D DDGs. No, the history already told us, many cheap T-34-85 much more efficient than a expensive King Tiger. Just right now, i see China shipyards r busy in building many 052D DDGs.

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> How do u think 052D is not a good platform for PLAN ? the 055 has 12,000 ton with 100+ VLS cells but it means more expensive than 052D 7,000+ ton with 64x VLS cells ... maybe PLAN don't need too many expensive 055 but need many cheaper 052D DDGs. No, the history already told us, many cheap T-34-85 much more efficient than a expensive King Tiger.


I can bet 2 Type052D is more expensive than 1 055. Yet 1 055 cruiser can do what 2 052D do.

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## cnleio

Beast said:


> I can bet 2 Type052D is more expensive than 1 055. Yet 1 055 cruiser can do what 2 052D do.


I don't know the price, im sure u don't know too.

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> I don't know the price, im sure u don't know too.


Logic can tell. You need to make 2 seperate hull while definitely 1 hull is cheaper although bigger but not by double the tonnage.

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## Martian2

Beast said:


> I can bet 2 Type052D is more expensive than 1 055. Yet 1 055 cruiser can do what 2 052D do.


Cost isn't the only issue.

A Type 055 is putting a lot of eggs in one basket.

Let's assume one Type 055 is equal to two Type 052Ds.

Would you rather have 40 Type 055s or 80 Type 052Ds?

In the case of Type 055s, the US Navy only has to sink 40 ships.

In the case of Type 052Ds, the US Navy has to sink all 80 ships.

Survivability is important. The more units that you have, the more survivable and easily replaceable they are.

Former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates argued that the US should move to a Navy with more smaller ships. The capital ships (e.g. aircraft carriers and Arleigh Burkes) are few in number. Once China wipes those out, the US doesn't have a Navy anymore.

There is strength in having smaller units that can be more easily replaced.

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## Beast

Martian2 said:


> Cost isn't the only issue.
> 
> A Type 055 is putting a lot of eggs in one basket.
> 
> Let's assume one Type 055 is equal to two Type 052Ds.
> 
> Would you rather have 40 Type 055s or 80 Type 052Ds?
> 
> In the case of Type 055s, the US Navy only has to sink 40 ships.
> 
> In the case of Type 052Ds, the US Navy has to sink all 80 ships.
> 
> Survivability is important. The more units that you have, the more survivable and easily replaceable they are.



Lets not forget, 4 QC-280 turbine of 055 cruiser is going to give lots of power for future upgrade if ray gun or laser becomes reality. That is something 2 QC-280 might not have the raw power to provide.

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## Martian2

Beast said:


> Lets not forget, 4 QC-280 turbine of 055 cruiser is going to give lots of power for future upgrade if ray gun or laser becomes reality. That is something 2 QC-280 might not have the raw power to provide.


No. Lasers cannot shoot more than a few miles in the dense lower atmosphere.

In the thin upper atmosphere, the Boeing ABL (ie. Airborne Laser) could only shoot 50 to 100 miles. After decades of research, the Boeing ABL was canceled. It had hit a wall and no currently known technology could fix the range problem.

Lasers cannot replace missiles. This is a limitation of physics.

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## cnleio

DDG-174 & DDG-175, China 3rd and 4th new 052D-class DDG

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## sheik

cnleio said:


> DDG-174 & DDG-175, China 3rd and 4th new 052D-class DDG
> 
> View attachment 277862
> View attachment 277863



So very likely CNS 174 will be commissioned in a few days.

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## cnleio

sheik said:


> So very likely CNS 174 will be commissioned in a few days.


052D N.o173, N.o174, N.o175 dock together

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## 帅的一匹

We shall build at least 30 of these .

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## ChineseTiger1986

Martian2 said:


> Cost isn't the only issue.
> 
> A Type 055 is putting a lot of eggs in one basket.
> 
> Let's assume one Type 055 is equal to two Type 052Ds.
> 
> Would you rather have 40 Type 055s or 80 Type 052Ds?
> 
> In the case of Type 055s, the US Navy only has to sink 40 ships.
> 
> In the case of Type 052Ds, the US Navy has to sink all 80 ships.
> 
> Survivability is important. The more units that you have, the more survivable and easily replaceable they are.
> 
> Former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates argued that the US should move to a Navy with more smaller ships. The capital ships (e.g. aircraft carriers and Arleigh Burkes) are few in number. Once China wipes those out, the US doesn't have a Navy anymore.
> 
> There is strength in having smaller units that can be more easily replaced.



Are you thinking about the similar analogy for the Type 093G and the Type 095?

The Type 052D's VLS needs to be fully quad-packed for the long ranged SAM such as the HQ-9B.

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## Martian2

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Are you thinking about the similar analogy for the Type 093G and the Type 095?
> 
> The Type 052D's VLS needs to be fully quad-packed for the long ranged SAM such as the HQ-9B.


I think a balanced Navy needs a distributed hi-lo mix.

Powerful units are great, but one missile or torpedo can eliminate a destroyer or submarine.

Lesser units can be upgraded, so the technological difference isn't that large.

China's Navy looks like a pyramid.

Type 052C and 052D Chinese Aegis destroyers
Type 054A Jaingkai II frigates
Type 056 Jiangdao light frigates/corvettes
Type 022 Houbei missile boats

Contrary to perception, the Type 022 Houbei missile boats are quite deadly. They can fire eight C-803/YJ-83 (subsonic cruise with a supersonic terminal phase) anti-ship missiles. The Type 022 only needs targeting data from a satellite, drone, or aircraft.

Reference: YJ-83






"*PLAN YJ-83 anti-ship missile December 2013*
Copyright © : People's Republic of China Government"
Picture link at Deagel: PLAN YJ-83 anti-ship missile December 2013

The point is that it is unclear how many high-end units should be produced. It depends on the military strategy. If the goal is to interdict the US Navy in deeper waters then more high-end units are needed. However, the US Navy is strongest in deeper waters. The Chinese Yuan, Song, and Kilo submarines operate best in shallower waters.

However, if the goal is to use the South China Sea islands as a base then more lower-end units like the Type 056 and Type 022 (within reason) should be produced.

I think "Beast" was arguing that a high-end unit was always preferable (because it presumably incorporates the best technology). However, survivability due to more units and faster replacement are equally important considerations.

You need to run thousands of detailed computer simulations and war games to find the optimal mix for China's Navy and its intended missions.
----------

To answer your question, the answer is "yes."

China's Navy will probably keep producing Type 093Gs despite the availability of the Type 095. Having more Type 093G submarines (which is also a more mature platform) makes sense in a fleet with Type 095s.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Martian2 said:


> I think a balanced Navy needs a distributed hi-lo mix.
> 
> Powerful units are great, but one missile or torpedo can eliminate a destroyer or submarine.
> 
> Lesser units can be upgraded, so the technological difference isn't that large.
> 
> China's Navy looks like a pyramid.
> 
> Type 052C and 052D Chinese Aegis destroyers
> Type 054A Jaingkai II frigates
> Type 056 Jiangdao light frigates/corvettes
> Type 022 Houbei missile boats
> 
> Contrary to perception, the Type 022 Houbei missile boats are quite deadly. They can fire eight C-803/YJ-83 (subsonic cruise with a supersonic terminal phase) anti-ship missiles. The Type 022 only needs targeting data from a satellite, drone, or another aircraft.
> 
> The point is that it is unclear how many high-end units should be produced. It depends on the military strategy. If the goal is to interdict the US Navy in deeper waters then more high-end units are needed. However, the US Navy is strongest in deeper waters. The Chinese Yuan, Song, and Kilo submarines operate best in shallower waters.
> 
> However, if the goal is to use the South China Sea islands as a base then more lower-end units like the Type 056 and Type 022 (within reason) should be produced.
> 
> I think "Beast" was arguing that a high-end unit was always preferable (because it presumably incorporates the best technology). However, survivability due to more units and faster replacement are equally important considerations.
> 
> You need to run thousands of detailed computer simulations and war games to find the optimal mix for China's Navy and its intended missions.
> ----------
> 
> To answer your question, the answer is "yes."
> 
> China's Navy will probably keep producing Type 093Gs despite the availability of the Type 095. Having more Type 093G submarines (which is also a more mature platform) makes sense in a fleet with Type 095s.



- The first batch for the Type 055 will be eight.

- China will add the third production line for the Type 052D in Guangzhou.

- A second production line for the nuclear sub will also be opened soon.

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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> - The first batch for the Type 055 will be eight.


2016.03 to see 1st type055 DDG's hull out in China !



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> - China will add the third production line for the Type 052D in Guangzhou.


I heard the news, 2016 we can see 3x China shipyards building type052D DDGs together.

China type052C/D will be the 2nd largest DDG fleet behind U.S 'Arleigh Burke'-I/IIA in the world.

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## Akasa

cnleio said:


> 2016.03 to see 1st type055 DDG's hull out in China !



Highly unlikely. Steel cutting took place in December 2014 while module construction did not start until March 2015; it takes at least two years to go from construction of the individual modules to the final assembled product.


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## cnleio

SinoSoldier said:


> Highly unlikely. Steel cutting took place in December 2014 while module construction did not start until March 2015; it takes at least two years to go from construction of the individual modules to the final assembled product.


I didn't say the final assembled product of type055 DDG, 2016.03 to see the hull of type055 DDG (Hull modules) just like 1st type052D hulls assembly in JN shipyard.

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## hk299792458

The admission of the 3rd *Type 052D* destroyer, _174 Hefei_, was occured this morning in the South Sea Fleet.











Henri K.

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## Beast

hk299792458 said:


> The admission of the 3rd *Type 052D* destroyer, _174 Hefei_, was occured this morning in the South Sea Fleet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Henri K.



Impressive, DDG175 will also join the fleet soon.

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## hk299792458

Beast said:


> Impressive, DDG175 will also join the fleet soon.



According to my prediction model, not before mid of 2016.

Henri K.

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## Beast

hk299792458 said:


> According to my prediction model, not before mid of 2016.
> 
> Henri K.


Everything looks done except painting the pennant number for DDG175. PLAN seems to have speed up the induction of Type052D destroyer.

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## neytirilover

I wonder if there's still anyone thinking that the INS Kolkata Class is on par with type 052D...


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## Beast

neytirilover said:


> I wonder if there's still anyone thinking that the INS Kolkata Class is on par with type 052D...


There is an article raising this issue 1 year back. Both have their advantage. INS Kolkata is strong in ASW as they can house 2 ASW helo compare to Type052D one. What makes Type052D apart from Kollkata is the Type052D universal VLS system that can house many types of missile from quad pack medium range SAM, to CJ-1000 LACM or HQ-9 LRSAM.

The 130mm main gun vs 76mm main gun is also a massive different.

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## neytirilover

Beast said:


> There is an article raising this issue 1 year back. Both have their advantage. INS Kolkata is strong in ASW as they can house 2 ASW helo compare to Type052D one. What makes Type052D apart from Kollkata is the Type052D universal VLS system that can house many types of missile from quad pack medium range SAM, to CJ-1000 LACM or HQ-9 LRSAM.
> 
> The 130mm main gun vs 76mm main gun is also a massive different.


What do you think about the comparison between MF-STAR and Type 348 AESA arrays?



Beast said:


> There is an article raising this issue 1 year back. Both have their advantage. INS Kolkata is strong in ASW as they can house 2 ASW helo compare to Type052D one. What makes Type052D apart from Kollkata is the Type052D universal VLS system that can house many types of missile from quad pack medium range SAM, to CJ-1000 LACM or HQ-9 LRSAM.
> 
> The 130mm main gun vs 76mm main gun is also a massive different.


Furthermore, as they are both intended to be used as protectors of Carriers against incoming air-borne threat, how do you think the combinations of Type 348+HQ-9B and MF-STAR+Barak 8 compare?

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## Beast

neytirilover said:


> What do you think about the comparison between MF-STAR and Type 348 AESA arrays?
> 
> 
> Furthermore, as they are both intended to be used as protectors of Carriers against incoming air-borne threat, how do you think the combinations of Type 348+HQ-9B and MF-STAR+Barak 8 compare?



I will skip the radar comparison as Chinese source for their AESA is scarce.

Destroyer in nowadays modern warfare do not just seek one primary role. Let's give example of Syria crisis. Russian send warship to fire cruise missile at ISIS position from Mediterranean sea. If Russia equipped with Type052D destroyer. Will it be more flexible in planning of their ops as the VLS is modular and universal. And so it can also maximise the firepower.

While that can't be say for INS Kolkata which VLS is fixed and non universal. This greatly reduces it combat flexibilites and limit its role.

H-9 has proven its capabilities during Turkish LRSAM bid and distinguish herself in the tender.

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## neytirilover

Beast said:


> I will skip the radar comparison as Chinese source for their AESA is scarce.
> 
> Destroyer in nowadays modern warfare do not just seek one primary role. Let's give example of Syria crisis. Russian send warship to fire cruise missile at ISIS position from Mediterranean sea. If Russia equipped with Type052D destroyer. Will it be more flexible in planning of their ops as the VLS is modular and universal. And so it can also maximise the firepower.
> 
> While that can't be say for INS Kolkata which VLS is fixed and non universal. This greatly reduces it combat flexibilites and limit its role.
> 
> H-9 has proven its capabilities during Turkish LRSAM bid and distinguish herself in the tender.



Yeah it's quite a big headache about all that scarcity of Chinese AESA performance data. But judging from available publications, in terms of GaAs MMIC capabilities, Chinese tech is at least on par with Israelis now, on this ground and considering the significantly larger aperture of Type 348, I think we can safely conclude that Type 348 is better than MF-STAR, at least in terms of AESA antenna performance.

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## ChineseTiger1986

neytirilover said:


> Yeah it's quite a big headache about all that scarcity of Chinese AESA performance data. But judging from available publications, in terms of GaAs MMIC capabilities, Chinese tech is at least on par with Israelis now, on this ground and considering the significantly larger aperture of Type 348, I think we can safely conclude that Type 348 is better than MF-STAR, at least in terms of AESA antenna performance.



The Type 346A is almost as good as the AN/SPY-3, so I don't think Israel got anything comparable to this.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> There is an article raising this issue 1 year back. Both have their advantage. INS Kolkata is strong in ASW as they can house 2 ASW helo compare to Type052D one. What makes Type052D apart from Kollkata is the Type052D universal VLS system that can house many types of missile from quad pack medium range SAM, to CJ-1000 LACM or HQ-9 LRSAM.
> 
> The 130mm main gun vs 76mm main gun is also a massive different.



Kolkata can only carry two medium-sized choppers.

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## neytirilover

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Kolkata can only carry two medium-sized choppers.


AFAIK Type 052D can carry only one mid-sized chopper, which is the Ka-28/31 series ASW helicopter. So while comparing to Kolkata in terms of Helicopter capability, Type 052D won't have any advantage.

Does Type 052D have a towed sonar array?



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 346A is almost as good as the AN/SPY-3, so I don't think Israel got anything comparable to this.


Can you shed more light on this? A direct, data or logic based analysis is preferable.


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## ChineseTiger1986

neytirilover said:


> AFAIK Type 052D can carry only one mid-sized chopper, which is the Ka-28/31 series ASW helicopter. So while comparing to Kolkata in terms of Helicopter capability, Type 052D won't have any advantage.



The Kolkata can only carry two Hal Dhruv which is less than the half of a Ka-28.

If a Type 052D DDG can only carry a single medium chopper like the Ka-28, then the Kolkata can only carry two light choppers like the Hal Dhruv.



neytirilover said:


> Does Type 052D have a towed sonar array?



Even the Type 056 got one.



neytirilover said:


> Can you shed more light on this? A direct, data or logic based analysis is preferable.



Not much open information about the Type 346A, but it is the common sense that Israel's small AESA shipborne radar is nothing comparable with the large ones such as the Type 346A or AN/SPY-3.

PS, the Kolkata class is no Aegis, unlike the Arleigh Burke class (including its clones from Japan and South Korea) and the Type 052C/D.

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## GoldenRatio1618

make it stealth destroyer put kinetick energy effect freezing technology to halut the effect during attack from enemy side.


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## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Not much open information about the Type 346A, but it is the common sense that Israel's small AESA shipborne radar is nothing comparable with the large ones such as the Type 346A or AN/SPY-3.
> 
> PS, the Kolkata class is no Aegis, unlike the Arleigh Burke class (including its clones from Japan and South Korea) and the Type 052C/D.



Israel shipborne AESA has different concept with US/China version. Type346A is more like Sampson AESA mounted high to have a better projection but that will restrict the AESA size. US/China AESA emphasize on size but need to mount at base as going too high will prove too much difficulties and imbalance of ship. The less better projection is compensate by the radar power of the AESA as its size is much bigger. End of the day, both advantages have their good point and I think the radar is a draw.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> Israel shipborne AESA has different concept with US/China version. Type346A is more like Sampson AESA mounted high to have a better projection but that will restrict the AESA size. US/China AESA emphasize on size but need to mount at base as going too high will prove too much difficulties and imbalance of ship. The less better projection is compensate by the radar power of the AESA as its size is much bigger. End of the day, both advantages have their good point and I think the radar is a draw.



The Type 346A is four large flat panels around the corners, it is nothing similar to the Sampson shipborne AESA radar.

It is true that smaller shipborne AESA like Sampson can have higher leverage, but its distance projection still cannot compete with the much larger four flat panels like the Type 346A or AN/SPY-3.

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## BoQ77

Beast said:


> Israel shipborne AESA has different concept with US/China version. Type346A is more like Sampson AESA mounted high to have a better projection but that will restrict the AESA size. US/China AESA emphasize on size but need to mount at base as going too high will prove too much difficulties and imbalance of ship. The less better projection is compensate by the radar power of the AESA as its size is much bigger. End of the day, both advantages have their good point and I think the radar is a draw.



LOL.

US Aegis destroyers AESA are for handling a few of BM which fly at very high altitude.
Sampson and Elta AESA are for handling several skimmish cruise ASh missiles at sea level.

Wonder what China AESA for ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> LOL.
> 
> US Aegis destroyers AESA are for handling a few of ICBM which fly at very high altitude.
> Sampson and Elta AESA are for handling several skimmish cruise ASh missiles at sea level.
> 
> Wonder what China AESA for ?



First, the current active US Aegis is PESA, not AESA.

Second, the SM-3 missile cannot intercept the ICBM on the midcourse.

You need to do a bit more of research.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> First, the current active US Aegis is PESA, not AESA.
> 
> Second, the SM-3 missile cannot intercept the ICBM on the midcourse.
> 
> You need to do a bit more of research.



Thanks for correct me. You argued that US and China concept is similar, so AEGIS-alike design of China destroyers for what? while US used it for AB ( Anti Ballistic ) max. 3


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> Thanks for correct me. You argued that US and China concept is similar, so AEGIS-alike design of China destroyers for what? while US used it for AB ( Anti Ballistic ) max. 3



This graph will show that the only anti-ICBM defense system is the GMD.

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## Agent_47

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Kolkata can only carry two medium-sized choppers.


No, Kolkata can carry two S-70B class choppers.
Which is twice the size of Dhruv.
@Abingdonboy


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## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> First, the current active US Aegis is PESA, not AESA.
> 
> Second, the SM-3 missile cannot intercept the ICBM on the midcourse.
> 
> You need to do a bit more of research.



Its correct Aegis currently is PESA but if I am not wrong, SM-3 can intercept midcourse ICBM. The USN purposely shot down an old satellite few years ago using an AB destroyer to demonstrate the point.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Agent_47 said:


> No, Kolkata can carry two S-70B class choppers.
> Which is twice the size of Dhruv.
> @Abingdonboy



Only the 9000+ tons Arleigh Burke Flight IIA can carry two SH-60 which is similar to the S-70B.

Kolkata is too small to carry two S-70B, two Dhruv is more reasonable.

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## BoQ77

SM-3 BLK IIA with ceiling 1,500km could do many things.

The SM-3 Block IIA is the operational system, which is designated as the RIM-161E. It uses the larger and more capable Mark 142 Mod 2 LEAP kinetic vehicle, which can fully utilize the added range, ceiling, and speed performance of the Super Standard. The Block IIA was also adapted for use on land-based anti-ballistic missile systems as the MIM-161F.

Originally, the SM-3 Block IIB was to be a land-based system that did not suffer from the design limitations of the Mark 41 canisters. However, this was canceled and instead, the extended booster option was given to the Block IIA. *When they are fitted with the extended booster, all Block IIA missiles are referred to as Block IIB.*

*The Block II, IIA, and IIB are all for exoatmospheric interception of a missile in its mid-course phase. As such, they are 4-stage systems, booster, missile, kill vehicle, warhead.*




Beast said:


> Its correct Aegis currently is PESA but if I am not wrong, SM-3 can intercept midcourse ICBM. The USN purposely shot down an old satellite few years ago using an AB destroyer to demonstrate the point.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> Its correct Aegis currently is PESA but if I am not wrong, SM-3 can intercept midcourse ICBM. The USN purposely shot down an old satellite few years ago using an AB destroyer to demonstrate the point.



Only the SM-3 block IIA/B can intercept the ICBM, but it is still under the development.

The US has basically scrapped the failed GMD, and in favor of the SM-3 block IIA/B.

China has succeeded its GMD project which is now designated as the DN-3, but China will still work on the anti-ICBM capability for its HQ-26 which will be available for both Type 055 and Type 052D in the near future.

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## sheik

BoQ77 said:


> Thanks for correct me. You argued that US and China concept is similar, so AEGIS-alike design of China destroyers for what? while US used it for AB ( Anti Ballistic ) max. 3



Bigger size of the radar is beneficial for longer distance of detection and better chance against stealth airplanes. Higher install position is better for detecting skimming-sea missiles. Both benefits are desired but the displacement of the ship is limited and you have to compromise based on your priority. China prefers bigger (thus heavier) ASEA and has to bear lower installation position, as the ship and the fleet could have other means to better detect skimming-sea missiles. Also, due to the curvature of Earth, the benefit gained by installing the AESA higher is probably not as much as you thought.

Moreover, China may also have similar needs to intercept ballistic missiles as the US (using HHQ-9B?), so the current configuration of the AESA on 052C/D (Aleigh Burke's counterpart in China) is nothing weird.

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## Agent_47

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Only the 9000+ tons Arleigh Burke Flight IIA can carry two SH-60 which is similar to the S-70B.
> 
> Kolkata is too small to carry two S-70B, two Dhruv is more reasonable.


Dude,Dhruv's are not operated from ships. There is no ASW version.
It's nothing to do with size, different priorities for different navy.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Agent_47 said:


> Dude,Dhruv's are not operated from ships. There is no ASW version.
> It's nothing to do with size, different priorities for different navy.



Well, it has to do with the size.

The bigger tonnage will allow your ship to have the bigger twin hangar and more VLS units. This is the common sense.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Only the SM-3 block IIA/B can intercept the ICBM, but it is still under the development.
> 
> The US has basically scrapped the failed GMD, and in favor of the SM-3 block IIA/B.
> 
> China has succeeded its GMD project which is now designated as the DN-3, but China will still work on the anti-ICBM capability for its HQ-26 which will be available for both Type 055 and Type 052D in the near future.



I read that SM-3 Blk IIA/B was joint developed by Japan and US, to which Japan put 1 billion dollars.
It's such an amazing interceptor on their Aegis destroyers.


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> I read that SM-3 Blk IIA/B was joint developed by Japan and US, to which Japan put 1 billion dollars.
> It's such an amazing interceptor on their Aegis destroyers.



Developed by the US, and Japan provided the fund.

But still, the block IIA is still too slow to really intercept a traveling modern ICBM, we shall see the specification of the block IIB.

However, it is true that the US Aegis is slowly moving towards the anti-ICBM capability in the future.

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## Agent_47

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, it has to do with the size.
> 
> The bigger tonnage will allow your ship to have the bigger twin hangar and more VLS units. This is the common sense.


Not always, INS Vikramaditya can only carry 20-25 medium fighters but French Charles de Gaulle can carry 40 and both are of same size. Different design and priorities.


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## BoQ77

sheik said:


> Bigger size of the radar is beneficial for longer distance of detection and better chance against stealth airplanes. Higher install position is better for detecting skimming-sea missiles. Both benefits are desired but the displacement of the ship is limited and you have to compromise based on your priority. China prefers bigger (thus heavier) ASEA and has to bear lower installation position, as the ship and the fleet could have other means to better detect skimming-sea missiles. Also, due to the curvature of Earth, the benefit gained by installing the AESA higher is probably not as much as you thought.
> 
> Moreover, China may also have similar needs to intercept ballistic missiles as the US (using HHQ-9B?), so the current configuration of the AESA on 052C/D (Aleigh Burke's counterpart in China) is nothing weird.



Nice post, sheik
But I don't think China could use HHQ-9 to anti ballistic on the sea.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Agent_47 said:


> Not always, INS Vikramaditya can only carry 20-25 medium fighters but French Charles de Gaulle can carry 40 and both are of same size. Different design and priorities.



They carry mostly the lighter aircrafts such as Rafale M and Mig-29K.



BoQ77 said:


> Nice post, sheik
> But I don't think China could use HHQ-9 to anti ballistic on the sea.



China's naval anti-ballistic defense system is not the HHQ-9, but the HQ-26.

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## 帅的一匹

Will HQ26 installed on 055DDG?

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Only the 9000+ tons Arleigh Burke Flight IIA can carry two SH-60 which is similar to the S-70B.
> 
> Kolkata is too small to carry two S-70B, two Dhruv is more reasonable.



two Westland Sea King ( licensed copy of S-61 ). it's not bad, which is comparable to Sh-70


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## ChineseTiger1986

wanglaokan said:


> Will HQ26 installed on 055DDG?



In the near future.

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## ChineseTiger1986

For the first time, Japan is using the live target practice for its new anti-ship missile.

The Shirane class, a 7500 tons retired DDG that was built in the 1970s.

Japan to Test its New XASM-3 Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile Against Shirane-class Destroyer

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## C130

U.S should buy a few hundred of these.

we lack a supersonic anti ship missile


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## Kyle Sun

C130 said:


> U.S should buy a few hundred of these.
> 
> we lack a supersonic anti ship missile


you guys should.focus ob allien , S.H.I.E.L.D of earth.

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## C130

Kyle Sun said:


> you guys should.focus ob allien , S.H.I.E.L.D of earth.




P-8 with 4 of these bad boys would make type 052D shake.

could even call it a carrier killer


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## ChineseTiger1986

C130 said:


> P-8 with 4 of these bad boys would make type 052D shake.
> 
> could even call it a carrier killer



The modern systematic warfare is not just one on one.

The Type 052D is just a part of China's systematic warfare, and she will not be alone, and think about the DF-21D/DF-26 and the HGV.

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## xunzi

Why are they not dump the ship to the Philippines? LOL

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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> For the first time, Japan is using the live target practice for its new anti-ship missile.
> 
> The Shirane class, a 7500 tons retired DDG that was built in the 1970s.
> 
> Japan to Test its New XASM-3 Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile Against Shirane-class Destroyer



Japan is a joke.

China will just produce a high number of Type054A frigates, Type 052D destroyers and Type 055 cruisers.

China has the supersonic YJ-12, YJ-18, YJ-100 anti-ship cruise missiles.

Japan is just mad China has surpassed it in everything from manufacturing, economy, trade, consumer market size, SDR composition, net national wealth, patents granted, supercomputer, weapons exports, military spending, olympic gold medals, etc.

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## C130

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The modern systematic warfare is not just one on one.
> 
> The Type 052D is just a part of China's systematic warfare, and she will not be alone, and think about the DF-21D/DF-26 and the HGV.





against the 052D this missile will be a huge threat

not talking about ballistic missiles that's for another thread though


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> Japan is a joke.
> 
> China will just produce a high number of Type054A frigates, Type 052D destroyers and Type 055 cruisers.
> 
> China has the supersonic YJ-12, YJ-18, YJ-100 anti-ship cruise missiles.
> 
> Japan is just mad China has surpassed it in everything from manufacturing, economy, trade, consumer market size, SDR composition, net national wealth, patents granted, supercomputer, weapons exports, military spending, etc.



This is no coincidence. As usual, the retired warships from the JMSDF should be sealed, not scuttled, but this time they chose a retired one with the similar tonnage to the Type 052D. It is obviously aimed at China.

But Japan still doesn't understand the fundamental concept of the modern systematic warfare, the Type 052D will not fight alone, but she will fight coordinatingly with PLAN's other warships and submarines, even with other PLA factions such as the PLAAF and second artillery corps.

Japan's naval strategic warfare still remains rigid like 75 years ago, no wonder the USN can easily sink their entire overrated navy with very little expense.

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## oproh

Why are they wasting those ships, they should donate it to the Philippines instead!

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## xunzi

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This is no coincidence. As usual, the retired warships from the JMSDF should be sealed, not scuttled, but this time they chose a retired one with the similar tonnage to the Type 052D. It is obviously aimed at China.
> 
> But Japan still doesn't understand the fundamental concept of the modern systematic warfare, the Type 052D will not fight alone, but she will fight coordinatingly with PLAN's other warships and submarines, even with other PLA factions such as the PLAAF and second artillery corps.
> 
> Japan's naval strategic warfare still remains rigid like 75 years ago, no wonder the USN can easily sink their entire overrated navy with very little expense.


They don't understand the new concept of information war. We are in a new age now.

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## ChineseTiger1986

C130 said:


> against the 052D this missile will be a huge threat
> 
> not talking about ballistic missiles that's for another thread though



The Type 052D will not be the frontrunner during the wartime.

I doubt they could have any opportunity to launch these missiles in front of the DF-21D/DF-26 and DF-ZF.



xunzi said:


> They don't understand the new concept of information war. We are in a new age now.



The Japanese mentality is super rigid and stubborn, and no wonder the US can easily defeat them in the Pacific Theatre with very little effort.

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## dy1022

Alarming..............


China should add another 100Billions USD for military spending in 2016!

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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This is no coincidence. As usual, the retired warships from the JMSDF should be sealed, not scuttled, but this time they chose a retired one with the similar tonnage to the Type 052D. It is obviously aimed at China.
> 
> But Japan still doesn't understand the fundamental concept of the modern systematic warfare, the Type 052D will not fight alone, but she will fight coordinatingly with PLAN's other warships and submarines, even with other PLA factions such as the PLAAF and second artillery corps.
> 
> Japan's naval strategic warfare still remains rigid like 75 years ago, no wonder the USN can easily sink their entire overrated navy with very little expense.



Japanese are foolish people. They really are. Power goes to their head and take hot headed decisions which end up hurting Japan.

They tried to conquer China and got humiliated by the PLA which dragged Japan into a guerrilla war.

Then they attacked the US and got a couple of nuclear bombs shoved up their arse.

Then they followed the US-imposed Plaza Accord and destroyed their economy.

Now they see China surpassing them in every area and their bruised ego can't handle being 2nd to China. Japan thought it could be the number 1 power in Asia forever and China has put an end to that Japanese pipe dream.

All these Japanese actions since 'nationalising' the Diaoyu islands in 2012 has been releasing pent up anger at the sight of seeing Japan relegated to 2nd place in Asia.

You know the worst thing for Japan is?
Their problems are only getting started because China's advantage over Japan will only get bigger as the years go by.

Japan's worst nightmare of a resurgent China has come true.

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## C130

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 052D will not be the frontrunner during the wartime.
> 
> I doubt they could have any opportunity to launch these missiles in front of the DF-21D/DF-26 and DF-ZF.
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese mentality is super rigid and stubborn, and no wonder the US can easily defeat them in the Pacific Theatre with very little effort.





you overestimate your capability 



dy1022 said:


> Alarming..............
> 
> 
> China should add another 100Billions USD for military spending in 2016!




you want to be in more debt like the U.S

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## ChineseTiger1986

C130 said:


> you overestimate your capability



The DF-21D/DF-26 and DF-ZF will clean the path before the PLAN and PLAAF starting their respectively role in the assault against the enemy.

The tiny JMSDF is not even worthy of mentioning against a such overwhelming multi-dimensional firepower.

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## C130

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The DF-21D/DF-26 and DF-ZF will clean the path before the PLAN and PLAAF starting their respectively role in the assault against the enemy.
> 
> The tiny JMSDF is not even worthy of mentioning against a such overwhelming multi-dimensional firepower.



so you are saying China will use ballistic missiles in a pre-preemptive strike 


maybe Japan needs nuclear weapons along with SK then


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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The DF-21D/DF-26 and DF-ZF will clean the path before the PLAN and PLAAF starting their respectively role in the assault against the enemy.
> 
> The tiny JMSDF is not even worthy of mentioning against a such overwhelming multi-dimensional firepower.



Don't forget J-10C, J-11D, J-16, JH-7B, J-20, J-31, H-6K, H-18, H-20, etc in VAST numbers.

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## xunzi

C130 said:


> so you are saying China will use ballistic missiles in a pre-preemptive strike
> 
> 
> maybe Japan needs nuclear weapons along with SK then


Why do you insist using ballistic missiles = nuke?

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## ChineseTiger1986

C130 said:


> so you are saying China will use ballistic missiles in a pre-preemptive strike
> 
> 
> maybe Japan needs nuclear weapons along with SK then



Not necessarily the nuclear ones, but China will use its best conventional gadgets altogether to ensure to win the war with very little cost.



Beidou2020 said:


> Japanese are foolish people. They really are. Power goes to their head and take hot headed decisions which end up hurting Japan.
> 
> They tried to conquer China and got humiliated by the PLA which dragged Japan into a guerrilla war.
> 
> Then they attacked the US and got a couple of nuclear bombs shoved up their arse.
> 
> Then they followed the US-imposed Plaza Accord and destroyed their economy.
> 
> Now they see China surpassing them in every area and their bruised ego can't handle being 2nd to China. Japan thought it could be the number 1 power in Asia forever and China has put an end to that Japanese pipe dream.
> 
> All these Japanese actions since 'nationalising' the Diaoyu islands in 2012 has been releasing pent up anger at the sight of seeing Japan relegated to 2nd place in Asia.
> 
> You know the worst thing for Japan is?
> Their problems are only getting started because China's advantage over Japan will only get bigger as the years go by.
> 
> Japan's worst nightmare of a resurgent China has come true.



Japanese only understand tactic, but not strategy.



Beidou2020 said:


> Don't forget J-10C, J-11D, J-16, JH-7B, J-20, J-31, H-6K, H-18, H-20, etc in VAST numbers.



Yep, China will win the war without any doubt, but the only matter is about the cost, and China wants the cost to be as smaller as possible.

Now with the greater quantity in number, the smaller cost of casualty for China.

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## Nike

LoL

Japan has ascended into information warfare long before PLA feeling the shock and awe during Operation desserts storm


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## rott

xunzi said:


> Why do you insist using ballistic missiles = nuke?


My guess is, he needed to come up with something rather than keeping quiet.

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## Aepsilons

Testing the XASM-3 is now equated to "wanting to sink 052-D" ? Come now, there is no need to be so emotional and paranoid , my dear friend @ChineseTiger1986 . Sit down, relax, be still. Don't be worried about the XASM-3, but on other 'hidden' technologies that Japan has yet to reveal, lol. 


He he he, just kidding. Or am i?


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## ChineseTiger1986

madokafc said:


> LoL
> 
> Japan has ascended into information warfare long before PLA feeling the shock and awe during Operation desserts storm



Japan plays the information warfare as an assistant to the US, but they can never play it alone.

The PLA can launch an integrated multi-dimensional joint assault altogether, while Japan has absolutely no capability to do that alone.

The JMSDF is only a fraction of the USN's anti-sub fleet in the Asia-Pacific, that's only their only role during the wartime.

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## xunzi

madokafc said:


> LoL
> 
> Japan has ascended into information warfare long before PLA feeling the shock and awe during Operation desserts storm


Japan fought in the Gulf War, what?

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## Aepsilons

-------------------

The Shirane Class Destroyer of the JMSDF

-------------------


You served nobly, honorably, great warrior of the Japanese Empire !


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## ChineseTiger1986

xunzi said:


> Japan fought in the Gulf War, what?



Only the US fought in the Gulf War, while the rests were just bystanders.

The US only wanted their political stance, that was all.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Testing the XASM-3 is now equated to "wanting to sink 052-D" ? Come now, there is no need to be so emotional and paranoid , my dear friend @ChineseTiger1986 . Sit down, relax, be still. Don't be worried about the XASM-3, but on other 'hidden' technologies that Japan has yet to reveal, lol.
> 
> 
> He he he, just kidding. Or am i?



Nothing from Japan really worries us, but we just want to generate more discussion in this section.

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## xunzi

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Only the US fought in the Gulf War, while the rests were just bystanders.
> 
> The US only wanted their political stance, that was all.


Back then, everybody knows they used a tactic called "checkbook diplomacy" which is being forced by the US to show supports by funding US military adventure. LOL

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## Aepsilons

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nothing from Japan really worries us, but we just want to generate more discussion in this section.



Good, there is nothing to be worried in the first place. This thread is unnecessarily loud.


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## ChineseTiger1986

xunzi said:


> Back then, everybody knows they used a tactic called "checkbook diplomacy" which is being forced by the US to show supports by funding US military adventure. LOL



The military force from the US allies is neglectable to the US, but the US only wants the political domination to show that the rest of the world is always following her lead.

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## Nike

xunzi said:


> Japan fought in the Gulf War, what?


Nope, but they had perfected the arts long before that


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## ChineseTiger1986

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Good, there is nothing to be worried in the first place. This thread is unnecessarily loud.



Being loud is good to generate more discussion as long as we don't use the insulting manner and the repetitive spams.

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## Aepsilons



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## xunzi

madokafc said:


> Nope, but they had perfected the arts long before that


If they had perfected information age, all of their warships wouldn't got sunk during WWII. Do you know why all of them got sunk? I tell you why. They made a mistake, building a lot of heavy, huge ship, in large quantity but none of them equipped with radar like the one the British equipped US ship. That is an area of information war that they didn't understand back then. Also if they understand information war now, they would have form a cyberwarfare force. So that tell me they don't really understand how to fight in the information age yet.

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## Aepsilons

For peaceful research purpose. 



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Being loud is good to generate more discussion as long as we don't use the insulting manner and the repetitive spams.



Being loud is un-Confucian. This is not the Japanese Way.

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## ChineseTiger1986

xunzi said:


> If they had perfected information age, all of their warships wouldn't got sunk during WWII. Do you know why all of them got sunk? I tell you why. They made a mistake, building a lot of heavy, huge ship, in large quantity but none of them equipped with radar like the one the British equipped US ship. That is an area of information war that they didn't understand back then. Also if they understand information war now, they would have form a cyberwarfare force. So that tell me they don't really understand how to fight in the information age yet.



They want the PLAN to fight accordingly to their rule; in one on one samurai style of duel.

During the WWII, they also wanted the US to send its battleships to fight in a close range combat with their Yamato and Musashi. However, the USN had sent zero battleship, but responded them with the aircraft carrier battlegroups.

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## Aepsilons

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They want the PLAN to fight accordingly to their rule; in one on one samurai style of duel.
> 
> During the WWII, they also wanted the USN to send its battleships to fight in a close range combat with their Yamato and Musashi. However, the US had sent zero battleship, but responded them with the aircraft carrier battlegroups.



ROFLMAO. What? Oh dear God in Heaven...!


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## neytirilover

BoQ77 said:


> Thanks for correct me. You argued that US and China concept is similar, so AEGIS-alike design of China destroyers for what? while US used it for AB ( Anti Ballistic ) max. 3



You have a pretty bad understanding about the development history of AN/SPY-1 Series PESA, which was originally intended for high performance long-distance ship to air engagement support, also enabling the USN to deal with saturated attack threats posed by the USSR. *On this regard, Chinese AESAs are designed for the same purpose. *

On top of that, the capability of ballistic missile interception, regardless of which stage it being targeting for, was added once the purposely designed SM-3 series missile was operational. The AN/SPY-1 series radar antenna can be used with new baseline software upgrades to support the missile by providing target information, *this was only possible because the antenna aperture of AN/SPY-1 was so large that it allows ample antenna gain and detection range, as well as the capability of high main-lobe performance at high angle-off-axis*. *This is also precisely the part where Type 346A/348 is on par of or have surpassed AN/SPY-1*, since their comparable aperture and the more advanced AESA array. MF-STAR has a significantly smaller aperture size.

In fact, the capability of Arleigh Burke of BM interception was largely based on the existing capability of AN/SPY-1D, the performance of which is at most comparable to Type 346A, plus the enhanced interception capability of the SM-3 missile. The gap between Type 346A and anti-BM is not the radar itself, but the software behind it (which is most likely not a big problem considering a series of successful anti-ICBM and anti-Satellite experiments), AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, the missile system. If you laugh at Type 346A radar for not being able to do BM interception, you are laughing at the wrong component of the system. You should be laughing at HQ-9. However, HQ-26 is already under development in full throttle.

Generally speaking, while MF-STAR might have 10 miles of advantage in detection range of sea skimming AShMs, it does not compare to Type 346A as of potential anti-BM capability and deterring of AShM launching platforms . Also, keep in mind that we mounted Type-346 radar on top of CV-16, which, well, you know, renders the advantage of MF-STAR in terms of mounting height moot.

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## cnleio

When u to build >30x 052D in there, it's not easy to say destroy them all ... trust me ! and a super-sonic anti-ship missile not a big deal, now many countries can buid them ... *at the end it's still the quantity decide the war.*

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## ChineseTiger1986

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Being loud is un-Confucian. This is not the Japanese Way.



Japan is not quiet either.

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## Harisudan

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This is no coincidence. As usual, the retired warships from the JMSDF should be sealed, not scuttled, but this time they chose a retired one with the similar tonnage to the Type 052D. It is obviously aimed at China.
> 
> But Japan still doesn't understand the fundamental concept of the modern systematic warfare, the Type 052D will not fight alone, but she will fight coordinatingly with PLAN's other warships and submarines, even with other PLA factions such as the PLAAF and second artillery corps.
> 
> Japan's naval strategic warfare still remains rigid like 75 years ago, no wonder the USN can easily sink their entire overrated navy with very little expense.


Guys, Don't live in a delusion.. Japanese did wht is best for their country.. They saw the increasing maritime presence of its prime adversary in its own backyard, and realised that an effective supersonice Antiship Missile will be the answer for that.. Japanese knows how to fight and how to plan strategic moves, they are not cowards..
No country in this would have survived a twin Nuclear attack and still come back stronger and faster than ever before except Japan..
If you think Japan don't know Modern systematic warfare than you should sleep over and come back and re read your comments..

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## ChineseTiger1986

Nihonjin1051 said:


> ROFLMAO. What? Oh dear God in Heaven...!



You seem to be a bit upset, and we know that the Yamato and Musashi were a painful history for the Japanese navy.



Harisudan said:


> Guys, Don't live in a delusion.. Japanese did wht is best for their country.. They saw the increasing maritime presence of its prime adversary in its own backyard, and realised that an effective supersonice Antiship Missile will be the answer for that.. Japanese knows how to fight and how to plan strategic moves, they are not cowards..
> No country in this would have survived a twin Nuclear attack and still come back stronger and faster than ever before except Japan..
> If you think Japan don't know Modern systematic warfare than you should sleep over and come back and re read your comments..



Japan overall is not very versatile, so they cannot have everything to play the modern systematic warfare alone.

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## Harisudan

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You seem to be a bit upset, and we know that the Yamato and Musashi were a painful history for the Japanese navy.
> 
> 
> 
> Japan overall is not very versatile, so they cannot have everything to play the modern systematic warfare alone.


If you take into consideration of Japanese assets strictly, then yes, there are gaps, but a war with japan will definitely involve assets of the United states in Japan and hence these gaps will be filled.. Also japan is ahead of China in terms of Net centric warfare, with the likes of GPS connected Aegis equipped Destroyers.. So that will also play an important role.. Not everything can be achieved by Numerical superiority..

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## Viva_Viet

Good, US give JP a shield (SK), US also give JP a sword ( F 35, Aegis destroyet etc). Times for the Samurai to slay the Dragon


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## Beidou2020

Viva_Viet said:


> Good, US give JP a shield (SK), US also give JP a sword ( F 35, Aegis destroyet etc). Times for the Samurai to slay the Dragon



Vietnam is the ant

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## Viva_Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> Vietnam is the ant


We are the gaunt wolf watching the house dogs fight


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## xunzi

Harisudan said:


> If you take into consideration of Japanese assets strictly, then yes, there are gaps, but a war with japan will definitely involve assets of the United states in Japan and hence these gaps will be filled.. Also japan is ahead of China in terms of Net centric warfare, with the likes of GPS connected Aegis equipped Destroyers.. So that will also play an important role.. Not everything can be achieved by Numerical superiority..


Japan is no match for us. Japan + USA will be a stalemate in the end. You, I, and everybody knows that already. Let not even dispute that.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Nihonjin1051 said:


> -------------------
> 
> The Shirane Class Destroyer of the JMSDF
> 
> -------------------
> 
> 
> You served nobly, honorably, great warrior of the Japanese Empire !



Now the great warrior will end up in a sacrificial death, so that's the way that your country treats your own great warriors?

So everybody is expendable for your empire, right?

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## Place Of Space

Shameless Japanese, they are occupied by the American troops but wnat to sink this, sink that. Japan is a joke.

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## slng

they just need more tsunamis
self destruction agenda or godwill

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## Kyle Sun

holy, 4 pages already?

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## dy1022

Looking for Fun in here !!!

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## ChineseTiger1986

Place Of Space said:


> Shameless Japanese, they are occupied by the American troops but wnat to sink this, sink that. Japan is a joke.



They want to treat China as a punching bag in order to unleash their frustration.

However, they are picking on the wrong country. This China is the super strong PRC, not the super weak ROC that they bullied 80 years ago.

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## Aepsilons

lol, what's up with this thread, seriously @ChineseTiger1986 . Angry lah?

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## jaiind

C130 said:


> U.S should buy a few hundred of these.
> 
> we lack a supersonic anti ship missile


 i was wondering that ,why US didnt produce any supersonic anti ship or land weapon? even though you people has great potential to make these weapons

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## Aepsilons

jaiind said:


> i was wondering that ,why US didnt produce any supersonic anti ship or land weapon? even though you people has great potential to make these weapons



There's no need. Japan and the US collaborate , we joint produced the SM-3 anti ballistic missile. 
日米共同開発の新型迎撃ミサイル、2度目の発射実験成功| Reuters

We can more than sell the XASM-3 to our American allies. Besides, there is already on the works of the XASM-4.


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## Daniel808

Hello Mr @Nihonjin1051
I think today, China Navy is bigger than JMSDF right? 

China Navy have 6 052C Destroyer and 3 052D Destroyer. Total 9 AEGIS like Destroyer. and more to go.
In other side, JMSDF just have 4 Kongo class and 2 Atago class. Total 6 Destroyer.







Beautiful isn't it?

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## gambit

jaiind said:


> i was wondering that ,why US didnt produce any supersonic anti ship or land weapon? even though you people has great potential to make these weapons


Because there are tactical advantages to subsonic flight.


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## surya kiran

gambit said:


> Because there are tactical advantages to subsonic flight.


Are you talking about maneuverability?


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## gambit

surya kiran said:


> Are you talking about maneuverability?


Yes. Maneuverability is crucial at lower altitudes, as in below mountain/hill tops.

There are two types of terrain compliant flights: terrain following (TF) and terrain avoidance (TA).

Terrain Following (TF) is vertical, as in following the terrain contour in the vertical (up/down) dimension.

Terrain Avoidance (TA) is horizontal, as in instead of flying around the obstacle, the flight go around it.

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## surya kiran

gambit said:


> Yes. Maneuverability is crucial at lower altitudes, as in below mountain/hill tops.
> 
> There are two types of terrain compliant flights: terrain following (TF) and terrain avoidance (TA).
> 
> Terrain Following (TF) is vertical, as in following the terrain contour in the vertical (up/down) dimension.
> 
> Terrain Avoidance (TA) is horizontal, as in instead of flying around the obstacle, the flight go around it.



Thanks for clearing that. Now, if you could indulge my second query.

If materials are developed which can withstand high gs, with computers and avionics being able to compute TA and TF, would it be possible to make available the same maneuverability with supersonic cruise missileS?


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## jaiind

gambit said:


> Because there are tactical advantages to subsonic flight.


sub sonic could be intercepted in their flight path. i dont know what other advantages it has. subsonic always travel < mach 1.


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## Aepsilons

Daniel808 said:


> In other side, JMSDF just have 4 Kongo class and 2 Atago class. Total 6 Destroyer.



Not including 2 more on the way. Two more under construction, and not including plans for constructing an additional 2, providing it passes the Diet's defense committee requisition plan. So , 8 tentatively, with possibility of being up to 10.



Daniel808 said:


> Beautiful isn't it?




She is absolutely beautiful. I love her clean linear lines, crisp looking, the bow and sternlooks sexy, so long too..hahahahaha. Sleek sexy sexy and gorgeous beast. I just got turned on, LOL!



Daniel808 said:


>





Let's dance, baby girl !


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## F-22Raptor

jaiind said:


> sub sonic could be intercepted in their flight path. i dont know what other advantages it has. subsonic always travel < mach 1.



I suggest reading up on the capabilities of our next anti-ship missile, the LRASM.



The Navy's Smart New Stealth Anti-Ship Missile Can Plan Its Own Attack

America's primary anti-ship missile, the Harpoon, has been in service now for close to 40 years and the Navy has been very reluctant to evolve when it comes to its anti-ship capabilities. Times are changing, with China's Navy on the rise and Russia flexing its muscle, the Cold War staple just won't do. Enter Lockheed's ninja-like Long Range Anti-Ship Missile to save the day.






The Harpoon was once the 'gold standard' of anti-ship cruise missiles, but its subsonic flight profile, limited range, less than stealthy design, and relatively simple targeting and navigation methodology have left it as almost an afterthought in the Navy's quiver. Sure, it is still able to strike ships at sea, but its ability to safely do so against an advanced foe with anti-access capabilities and advanced defenses is highly questionable. Lockheed's LRASM program began in 2009 in hopes of righting this wrong and was originally part of a two-pronged anti-ship missile procurement concept.

This two-prong next generation anti-ship missile approach saw the development of the LRASM-A, the subsonic, low-flying and stealthy weapon that is still in development today. The other was the LRASM-B, a high-altitude supersonic, ramjet powered anti-ship missile, similar to the Russian Brahmos supersonic anti-ship missile. LRASM-B was cancelled in 2012 under tightening defense budgets, with DARPA focusing on the lower risk and more pressing LRASM-A concept.

LRASM is a cousin of Lockheed's stealthy JASSM cruise missile and is aiming to replace and expand the mission of both the AGM-84 aircraft-launched and RGM-84 ship-launched Harpoon. The video below depicts generally how LRASM works and some of the capabilities it brings to the table. In it you will see its most prominent feature is that it will "intelligently" sense and avoid hostile threats via an on-board passive radio frequency and threat warning receiver. Additionally, LRASM is equipped with an on-board data-link, advanced artificial intelligence software, low probability of intercept radar, imaging infrared sensor and an inertial navigation system with embedded GPS. All of this is tied to the sneaky missile's autopilot and cutting-edge computing core.

Basically, this stealthy missile will have enough AI on-board to survive via the automatic dissemination of high-quality electronic service measure (ESM)/radar warning receiver data. In other words, it sniffs out the enemy's electronic emissions (especially radar emissions) classifies them, geolocates them, and then figures out its own a route of best survival, or it decides to attack one of these threats directly.

In addition to LRASM's own electronic 'sniffing' abilities, high fidelity off-board data can be sent to it via data-link from external sensors. This means and aircraft like the P-8 Poseidon, E/A-18G Growler, MQ-4C Triton or EP-3 Aeries or AEGIS cruisers and destroyers can help build a real-time 'picture' of the enemy's electronic order of battle, so that the missile has a very high chance of making to its target area alive.

Not only can LRASM avoid threats in order to sneak into an enemy's naval operating area alone, but it can also work with other LRASMs to infiltrate and prosecute an attack cooperatively, as a swarm. In fact, working with other LRASM missiles would most likely make their attack that much more potent, as they could use their threat emission detection and geolocating capabilities together, communicating among themselves in real-time. Such a tactic would provide a much higher resolution picture of exactly where the bad guys' threatening emissions are coming from via triangulation. Keep in mind this is all done passively, minus short transmissions via low-power data-link, so LRASM would remain almost totally emissions silent.







LRASM can also search for its own target autonomously, hundreds of miles away from its launch point. It does this using its primary active sensor, its radar, and its passive sensors, such as its imaging infrared and its aforementioned radio frequency listening and threat warning (electronic service measures) sensors. Once it is in an area where enemies may be operating, or if it 'sniffed' an enemy radar belonging to a ship it was programmed to attack, it would activate its radar, sweeping the area quickly while hopping frequencies in order to remain undetected. It could also have a 'radar picture' sent to it from virtually any aircraft or ship via data-link, allowing it keep its radar in standby mode, thus giving the enemy one less chance of detecting it. The missile's networking abilities, via its data-link allow the missile to maintain total emission silence all the way through its terminal attack if external targeting data is available. 

If that data is not available, and LRASM uses its own radar, once LRASM picked up a radar return that matches that of an enemy ship in its memory banks full of 3D targeting models, it would begin prosecuting its attack, planning a route based on the threats in the area and its target's unique defenses. Once within range of its infrared sensor's view, it would use both it and its radar to pick the part of the targeted ship that is most vulnerable to strike. Then it would drop just feet above the water, possibly with its radar turned off (as long as its IR picture stayed consistent) and it would make its final, highly tailored attack run at the enemy ship.







Although other emerging cruise missiles systems , such as the Block IV Tactical Tomahawk, have similar enemy radar sensing and evading capabilities, with its very small radar cross-section, a low infrared signature, and having nearly no radio frequency emissions for the enemy to detect in certain modes, LRASM makes for a very tough target to detect and engage engage. This is especially true as it barrels towards a ship's most vulnerable area at nearly the speed of sound, just above the ocean chop. Seconds later it would crash through the ship's outer hull and detonate its 1,000lb payload of high explosives.

Game over for the bad guys.

The missile's stealthy shape and skin, along with its reduced infrared signature and a low probability of intercept (LPI) active sensors and its ability to attack on passive sensors and off-board information alone, makes it a very hard target for enemy defensive systems to sense and successfully engage it. In addition to LRASM's already hard to detect attributes, there are some rumors that eventually some cruise missiles, LRASM included, could work as escort jammers for other similar, albeit warhead packing cruise missiles, or other LRASMs in this case, thus providing electronic screening for a LRASM swarm attack.

This tactic is already evolving via the miniature air-launched decoy (MALD) program and has been implemented more primitively via the use of target drones packed with chaff and jammers during the opening stages of both wars in Iraq. LRASM paired with expendable escort jamming LRASMs would really make the enemy's life hell and would bring a whole new element to the global anti-ship missile race.

Think of the LRASM as the ninja of anti-ship cruise missiles missiles. It relies on stealth, intelligence, guile, avoidance, silent communication and keen observation to win the day, not brute force or high-speed alone.

LRASM is currently planned to be integrated on both aircraft, such as the Super Hornet and even the USAF's B-1B bomber, and on U.S. Navy surface combatants. Unlike its ship-borne Harpoon ancestor that required its own unstealthy tube launchers, it can be launched via the Navy's flush mounted Vertical Launch Systems. In fact, compatibility with LRASM, VLS and a booster rocket have already been proven during live-fire tests (see video above).

Not only is LRASM much more survivable than Harpoon, but it also boasts double the warhead size and at least three and a half times more range. Although details are limited, LRASM is thought to have a range of at least 200 miles, but that could be extended much longer, approaching 1,000 miles, depending on the configuration and the flight profile. For instance, if its warhead were reduced in size and weight, that extra capacity could be used for more fuel. This makes this new stealthy cruise missile ideal for breaking down an enemy's naval-based anti-access capabilities from outside their sensors' ability to detect and engage the LRASM launch platform itself.

The LRASM missile seems almost perfectly suited for the DDG-1000_ Zumwalt _Class stealthy destroyers, the first of which will soon be underway for sea trials. These super high-tech destroyers will almost certainly operate closer to the enemy's territory than any other U.S. Navy surface combatant. A 'broadside' of LRASMs, launched while a_ Zumwalt_ Class destroyer, still outside the edge of the enemy's detection capabilities, could result in a devastating blow to an enemy's fleet. With this in mind, it is almost without a doubt that LRASM will also be adapted to strike land based targets, just as the Harpoon evolved into the SLAM and SLAM-ER standoff land attack missiles. This would give the_ Zumwalt_ Class the stealthy punch its design calls for, something the current BGM-109 Tomahawk tactical land attack missile (TLAM) cannot offer.

As mentioned earlier, reducing LRASM's warhead size could increase the missile's range to close to 1,000 miles, which could be a very logical move considering China's anti-access technologies, including the DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile. A single DDG-1000 could ripple off up to 80 land-attack modified LRASMs in a single volley while still remaining outside of China's core threat envelope. Such a capability could do wonders for taking out China's coastal air defenses and over-the-horizon radars used for target ships far out at sea.

This scenario also highlights the possibility of a submarine launched ground attack variant of LRASM, as a single _Ohio Class_ SSGN could theoretically volley 154 of these missiles much closer to shore than even the DDG-1000 could manage.






Lockheed's LRASM, which has already gone through multiple realistic live-fire tests, did have some stiff competition leading up to its selection for the first part of a two tier competition that will see a new anti-ship missile fielded in mass. Raytheon in particular claimed that their JSOW-ER missile system was cheaper and roughly as effective as Lockheed's LRASM. Even after a formal protest, and at the request of DARPA, an order for an initial batch of 90 LRASM was initiated. This is some reflection of just how dire the situation has become with the Navy's aging anti-ship missile capabilities in regards to China's rise and Russia's military reemergence on the world stage.

The final winner of the Offensive Anti-Surface Warfare (OASuW)/Increment 2 selection will come in the next few years, but seeing a so much risk reduction work has been done on LRASM, and an initial order has already been made, it is clearly a favorite to win. These new missiles would be fielded in mass by the mid-2020s.







In many ways, the U.S. military has led the world in weapons platforms, but has strangely lacked at times when it comes to revamping their 'expendable' weapons used by these leading weapons platforms. We saw this with the fielding of the AIM-9X decades after Russian fighters were outfitted with a high-off bore-sight short range air-to-air missile, the slow evolution of the AIM-120 AMRAAM, a weapon that has a range less than the modern fighters that fire it can see, and the looming mismatch between the non-stealthy Tomahawk cruise missile and the Navy's new stealthy ships that will be forced to launch it. Yet nowhere has the Navy dropped the ball more than with the Harpoon and the anti-shipping realm.

Harpoon has served with 29 nations, both friends and friends turned enemies alike. Sure it has seen some upgrades, but it is probably one of the best understood American weapons by our potential naval foes around the world. Meanwhile, Russia continues to grow and evolve its anti-ship missile slinging armada, which is has always seen as a major counter to US carrier groups. With this, along with China's anti-access capability buildup, in mind, the Navy really needed LRASM like yesterday.

Although LRASM-A is truly an exciting and clearly capable new anti-ship technology, it is too bad that the LRASM-B, the supersonic ramjet powered ship killer brother of the LRASM-A, was cancelled, as dealing with both threats at the same time would most likely equal nearly certain death for enemy flotillas. Regardless of this fact, with LRASM-A, for the first time in decades America's naval foes around the globe may have an anti-ship missile to really fear. It may not be the fastest or the biggest, but it certainly is the smartest and stealthiest.

The Navy's Smart New Stealth Anti-Ship Missile Can Plan Its Own Attack

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## Aepsilons

F-22Raptor said:


> I suggest reading up on the capabilities of our next anti-ship missile, the LRASM.
> 
> 
> 
> The Navy's Smart New Stealth Anti-Ship Missile Can Plan Its Own Attack
> 
> America's primary anti-ship missile, the Harpoon, has been in service now for close to 40 years and the Navy has been very reluctant to evolve when it comes to its anti-ship capabilities. Times are changing, with China's Navy on the rise and Russia flexing its muscle, the Cold War staple just won't do. Enter Lockheed's ninja-like Long Range Anti-Ship Missile to save the day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Harpoon was once the 'gold standard' of anti-ship cruise missiles, but its subsonic flight profile, limited range, less than stealthy design, and relatively simple targeting and navigation methodology have left it as almost an afterthought in the Navy's quiver. Sure, it is still able to strike ships at sea, but its ability to safely do so against an advanced foe with anti-access capabilities and advanced defenses is highly questionable. Lockheed's LRASM program began in 2009 in hopes of righting this wrong and was originally part of a two-pronged anti-ship missile procurement concept.
> 
> This two-prong next generation anti-ship missile approach saw the development of the LRASM-A, the subsonic, low-flying and stealthy weapon that is still in development today. The other was the LRASM-B, a high-altitude supersonic, ramjet powered anti-ship missile, similar to the Russian Brahmos supersonic anti-ship missile. LRASM-B was cancelled in 2012 under tightening defense budgets, with DARPA focusing on the lower risk and more pressing LRASM-A concept.
> 
> LRASM is a cousin of Lockheed's stealthy JASSM cruise missile and is aiming to replace and expand the mission of both the AGM-84 aircraft-launched and RGM-84 ship-launched Harpoon. The video below depicts generally how LRASM works and some of the capabilities it brings to the table. In it you will see its most prominent feature is that it will "intelligently" sense and avoid hostile threats via an on-board passive radio frequency and threat warning receiver. Additionally, LRASM is equipped with an on-board data-link, advanced artificial intelligence software, low probability of intercept radar, imaging infrared sensor and an inertial navigation system with embedded GPS. All of this is tied to the sneaky missile's autopilot and cutting-edge computing core.
> 
> Basically, this stealthy missile will have enough AI on-board to survive via the automatic dissemination of high-quality electronic service measure (ESM)/radar warning receiver data. In other words, it sniffs out the enemy's electronic emissions (especially radar emissions) classifies them, geolocates them, and then figures out its own a route of best survival, or it decides to attack one of these threats directly.
> 
> In addition to LRASM's own electronic 'sniffing' abilities, high fidelity off-board data can be sent to it via data-link from external sensors. This means and aircraft like the P-8 Poseidon, E/A-18G Growler, MQ-4C Triton or EP-3 Aeries or AEGIS cruisers and destroyers can help build a real-time 'picture' of the enemy's electronic order of battle, so that the missile has a very high chance of making to its target area alive.
> 
> Not only can LRASM avoid threats in order to sneak into an enemy's naval operating area alone, but it can also work with other LRASMs to infiltrate and prosecute an attack cooperatively, as a swarm. In fact, working with other LRASM missiles would most likely make their attack that much more potent, as they could use their threat emission detection and geolocating capabilities together, communicating among themselves in real-time. Such a tactic would provide a much higher resolution picture of exactly where the bad guys' threatening emissions are coming from via triangulation. Keep in mind this is all done passively, minus short transmissions via low-power data-link, so LRASM would remain almost totally emissions silent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LRASM can also search for its own target autonomously, hundreds of miles away from its launch point. It does this using its primary active sensor, its radar, and its passive sensors, such as its imaging infrared and its aforementioned radio frequency listening and threat warning (electronic service measures) sensors. Once it is in an area where enemies may be operating, or if it 'sniffed' an enemy radar belonging to a ship it was programmed to attack, it would activate its radar, sweeping the area quickly while hopping frequencies in order to remain undetected. It could also have a 'radar picture' sent to it from virtually any aircraft or ship via data-link, allowing it keep its radar in standby mode, thus giving the enemy one less chance of detecting it. The missile's networking abilities, via its data-link allow the missile to maintain total emission silence all the way through its terminal attack if external targeting data is available.
> 
> If that data is not available, and LRASM uses its own radar, once LRASM picked up a radar return that matches that of an enemy ship in its memory banks full of 3D targeting models, it would begin prosecuting its attack, planning a route based on the threats in the area and its target's unique defenses. Once within range of its infrared sensor's view, it would use both it and its radar to pick the part of the targeted ship that is most vulnerable to strike. Then it would drop just feet above the water, possibly with its radar turned off (as long as its IR picture stayed consistent) and it would make its final, highly tailored attack run at the enemy ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although other emerging cruise missiles systems , such as the Block IV Tactical Tomahawk, have similar enemy radar sensing and evading capabilities, with its very small radar cross-section, a low infrared signature, and having nearly no radio frequency emissions for the enemy to detect in certain modes, LRASM makes for a very tough target to detect and engage engage. This is especially true as it barrels towards a ship's most vulnerable area at nearly the speed of sound, just above the ocean chop. Seconds later it would crash through the ship's outer hull and detonate its 1,000lb payload of high explosives.
> 
> Game over for the bad guys.
> 
> The missile's stealthy shape and skin, along with its reduced infrared signature and a low probability of intercept (LPI) active sensors and its ability to attack on passive sensors and off-board information alone, makes it a very hard target for enemy defensive systems to sense and successfully engage it. In addition to LRASM's already hard to detect attributes, there are some rumors that eventually some cruise missiles, LRASM included, could work as escort jammers for other similar, albeit warhead packing cruise missiles, or other LRASMs in this case, thus providing electronic screening for a LRASM swarm attack.
> 
> This tactic is already evolving via the miniature air-launched decoy (MALD) program and has been implemented more primitively via the use of target drones packed with chaff and jammers during the opening stages of both wars in Iraq. LRASM paired with expendable escort jamming LRASMs would really make the enemy's life hell and would bring a whole new element to the global anti-ship missile race.
> 
> Think of the LRASM as the ninja of anti-ship cruise missiles missiles. It relies on stealth, intelligence, guile, avoidance, silent communication and keen observation to win the day, not brute force or high-speed alone.
> 
> LRASM is currently planned to be integrated on both aircraft, such as the Super Hornet and even the USAF's B-1B bomber, and on U.S. Navy surface combatants. Unlike its ship-borne Harpoon ancestor that required its own unstealthy tube launchers, it can be launched via the Navy's flush mounted Vertical Launch Systems. In fact, compatibility with LRASM, VLS and a booster rocket have already been proven during live-fire tests (see video above).
> 
> Not only is LRASM much more survivable than Harpoon, but it also boasts double the warhead size and at least three and a half times more range. Although details are limited, LRASM is thought to have a range of at least 200 miles, but that could be extended much longer, approaching 1,000 miles, depending on the configuration and the flight profile. For instance, if its warhead were reduced in size and weight, that extra capacity could be used for more fuel. This makes this new stealthy cruise missile ideal for breaking down an enemy's naval-based anti-access capabilities from outside their sensors' ability to detect and engage the LRASM launch platform itself.
> 
> The LRASM missile seems almost perfectly suited for the DDG-1000_ Zumwalt _Class stealthy destroyers, the first of which will soon be underway for sea trials. These super high-tech destroyers will almost certainly operate closer to the enemy's territory than any other U.S. Navy surface combatant. A 'broadside' of LRASMs, launched while a_ Zumwalt_ Class destroyer, still outside the edge of the enemy's detection capabilities, could result in a devastating blow to an enemy's fleet. With this in mind, it is almost without a doubt that LRASM will also be adapted to strike land based targets, just as the Harpoon evolved into the SLAM and SLAM-ER standoff land attack missiles. This would give the_ Zumwalt_ Class the stealthy punch its design calls for, something the current BGM-109 Tomahawk tactical land attack missile (TLAM) cannot offer.
> 
> As mentioned earlier, reducing LRASM's warhead size could increase the missile's range to close to 1,000 miles, which could be a very logical move considering China's anti-access technologies, including the DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile. A single DDG-1000 could ripple off up to 80 land-attack modified LRASMs in a single volley while still remaining outside of China's core threat envelope. Such a capability could do wonders for taking out China's coastal air defenses and over-the-horizon radars used for target ships far out at sea.
> 
> This scenario also highlights the possibility of a submarine launched ground attack variant of LRASM, as a single _Ohio Class_ SSGN could theoretically volley 154 of these missiles much closer to shore than even the DDG-1000 could manage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lockheed's LRASM, which has already gone through multiple realistic live-fire tests, did have some stiff competition leading up to its selection for the first part of a two tier competition that will see a new anti-ship missile fielded in mass. Raytheon in particular claimed that their JSOW-ER missile system was cheaper and roughly as effective as Lockheed's LRASM. Even after a formal protest, and at the request of DARPA, an order for an initial batch of 90 LRASM was initiated. This is some reflection of just how dire the situation has become with the Navy's aging anti-ship missile capabilities in regards to China's rise and Russia's military reemergence on the world stage.
> 
> The final winner of the Offensive Anti-Surface Warfare (OASuW)/Increment 2 selection will come in the next few years, but seeing a so much risk reduction work has been done on LRASM, and an initial order has already been made, it is clearly a favorite to win. These new missiles would be fielded in mass by the mid-2020s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In many ways, the U.S. military has led the world in weapons platforms, but has strangely lacked at times when it comes to revamping their 'expendable' weapons used by these leading weapons platforms. We saw this with the fielding of the AIM-9X decades after Russian fighters were outfitted with a high-off bore-sight short range air-to-air missile, the slow evolution of the AIM-120 AMRAAM, a weapon that has a range less than the modern fighters that fire it can see, and the looming mismatch between the non-stealthy Tomahawk cruise missile and the Navy's new stealthy ships that will be forced to launch it. Yet nowhere has the Navy dropped the ball more than with the Harpoon and the anti-shipping realm.
> 
> Harpoon has served with 29 nations, both friends and friends turned enemies alike. Sure it has seen some upgrades, but it is probably one of the best understood American weapons by our potential naval foes around the world. Meanwhile, Russia continues to grow and evolve its anti-ship missile slinging armada, which is has always seen as a major counter to US carrier groups. With this, along with China's anti-access capability buildup, in mind, the Navy really needed LRASM like yesterday.
> 
> Although LRASM-A is truly an exciting and clearly capable new anti-ship technology, it is too bad that the LRASM-B, the supersonic ramjet powered ship killer brother of the LRASM-A, was cancelled, as dealing with both threats at the same time would most likely equal nearly certain death for enemy flotillas. Regardless of this fact, with LRASM-A, for the first time in decades America's naval foes around the globe may have an anti-ship missile to really fear. It may not be the fastest or the biggest, but it certainly is the smartest and stealthiest.
> 
> The Navy's Smart New Stealth Anti-Ship Missile Can Plan Its Own Attack

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## gambit

jaiind said:


> sub sonic could be intercepted in their flight path.


And supersonic cannot ? I want to see a credible technical explanation as to why, by merely breaching Mach, that an aircraft cannot be intercepted.


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## j20blackdragon

Why is it even necessary to sink the ship? Just send an anti-radiation missile through the SPY-1 radar and the Aegis ship essentially becomes worthless as an air defense platform. That way we can avoid unnecessary casualties and neutralize the threat at the same time, win-win.

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## jaiind

gambit said:


> And supersonic cannot ? I want to see a credible technical explanation as to why, by merely breaching Mach, that an aircraft cannot be intercepted.


barak 8 could intercept the latest supersonic missiles.even it can intercept any subsonic missile


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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Japan plays the information warfare as an assistant to the US, but they can never play it alone.
> 
> The PLA can launch an integrated multi-dimensional joint assault altogether, while Japan has absolutely no capability to do that alone.
> 
> The JMSDF is only a fraction of the USN's anti-sub fleet in the Asia-Pacific, that's only their only role during the wartime.



It may have a smaller navy. But its still deadly considering they have dozens of high advanced submarines close to China.



jaiind said:


> i was wondering that ,why US didnt produce any supersonic anti ship or land weapon? even though you people has great potential to make these weapons



Don't forget range. Subsonic missiles have further range than supersonic. For example the new LRASM which can be launched from smaller aircraft like F-15s or F-18s can hit targets from a distance of roughly 1,000km. If its supersonic, it would burn up fuel faster and has shorter range. And they made it harder to detect.

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## gambit

jaiind said:


> barak 8 could intercept the latest supersonic missiles.even it can intercept any subsonic missile


In post 61, you implied that supersonic flight somehow give immunity or resistant to interception. Am asking for a credible technical explanation as to how.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> It may have a smaller navy. But its still deadly considering they have dozens of high advanced submarines close to China.



The Soryu class is outdated, still using the Stirling propulsion from Sweden, while China's Type 039C has already used the indigenous fuel cell propulsion.

PS, the AIP subs can only be suitable to play the ambushing role, but it cannot play an intensified duel with the nuclear sub in the deeper water as it would soon run out of the battery.

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## Oldman1

gambit said:


> In post 61, you implied that supersonic flight somehow give immunity or resistant to interception. Am asking for a credible technical explanation as to how.



US Navy uses SM-6 to intercept medium-range supersonic target... -- WHITE SANDS MISSILE RANGE, N.M., June 17, 2015 /PRNewswire/ --

WHITE SANDS MISSILE RANGE, N.M., June 17, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- The U.S. Navy's USS Desert Ship (LLS-1) crew fired a Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN) Standard Missile-6 at a medium-range supersonic target, successfully engaging the simulated 'over-the-horizon' threat. This mission was the next in a test series for Naval Integrated Fire Control – Counter Air (NIFC-CA), a program designed to link U.S. Navy ships and airborne sensors into a single network.

"This flight test is yet another demonstration of SM-6 providing the U.S. Navy with critical defensive capabilities against emerging threats," said Capt. Michael Ladner, Program Executive Office, Integrated Weapon Systems (PEO IWS) 3.0 Surface Ship Weapons major program manager.

During over-the-horizon test scenarios, the shooting ship uses information from off-board sensors - other ships or airborne sensors - to support launching the missile and engaging the target.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Soryu class is outdated, still using the Stirling propulsion from Sweden, while China's Type 039C has already used the indigenous fuel cell propulsion.
> 
> PS, the AIP subs can only be suitable to play the ambushing role, but it cannot play an intensified duel with the nuclear sub in the deeper water as it would soon run out of the battery.



Soryu subs are not outdated. Barely came out a few years ago. And it doesn't matter if its using Stirling propulsion or so on as long as it can dive and fire torpedoes. And as long as their boats are in littoral waters near China, doesn't matter. You have to get past through the first island chain anyways. Japan is not fighting in the Pacific Ocean. China is in the other direction.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> Soryu subs are not outdated. Barely came out a few years ago. And it doesn't matter if its using Stirling propulsion or so on as long as it can dive and fire torpedoes. And as long as their boats are in littoral waters near China, doesn't matter. You have to get past through the first island chain anyways. Japan is not fighting in the Pacific Ocean. China is in the other direction.



Engaging with China in the littoral water isn't really a brilliant idea as there will be 30+ AIP subs waiting there to ambush down the Soryu boats.

Japan will lose its air superiority and surface fleet in just few hours, so the Soryu will soon become the dead fishes waiting to be hunted down one by one.

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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Engaging with China in the littoral water isn't really a brilliant idea as there will be 30+ AIP subs waiting there to ambush down the Soryu boats.
> 
> Japan will lose its air superiority and surface fleet in just few hours, so the Soryu will soon become the dead fishes waiting to be hunted down one by one.



Just their presence is enough to force the Chinese Navy not to come out of their port. All the Japanese has to do is lie down and wait.

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## Aepsilons

Oldman1 said:


> Just their presence is enough to force the Chinese Navy not to come out of their port. All the Japanese has to do is lie down and wait.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> Just their presence is enough to force the Chinese Navy not to come out of their port. All the Japanese has to do is lie down and wait.



You better to check the air superiority from both side.

PS, with the factor of the DF-21D/DF-26 and DF-ZF, Japan cannot last more than few hours in a naval battle with China.

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## j20blackdragon

The 23rd Type 054A frigate was just launched a few days ago.

Each of them can launch the Chinese ASROC.
PLAN holds 'largest-ever' firepower display in SCS drills | IHS Jane's 360





Each of them can carry a Z-9C.

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## Aepsilons

Cool toys.


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## gambit

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Engaging with China in the littoral water isn't really a brilliant idea as there will be 30+ AIP subs waiting there to ambush down the Soryu boats.


Wrong...There are dangers in littoral waters for all subs.

The reality is that active sonar is seldom used by subs. In combat, active sonar ala 'The Hunt For Red October' will spell the end of the sub that is pinging away. In sub surface navigation, at least 20 meters of depth must be available just to move forward. In sub surface combat navigation where a sub may need to make rapid or even emergency descent, there should be at least 2-3 times the sub's length. So in littoral waters, a sub may not have enough room to maneuver and this depends on the combat situation.


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## 大汉奸柳传志

C130 said:


> maybe Japan needs nuclear weapons along with SK then


I agree. Japan should totally get nukes along with ICBMs.

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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You better to check the air superiority from both side.
> 
> PS, with the factor of the DF-21D/DF-26 and DF-ZF, Japan cannot last more than few hours in a naval battle with China.



Unless you built anti sub ballistic missile, its pretty much too late for China to do anything against dozens of Japanese subs. And you don't have that kind of air superiority with U.S. backing Japan up.


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## Place Of Space

Oldman1 said:


> Unless you built anti sub ballistic missile, its pretty much too late for China to do anything against dozens of Japanese subs. And you don't have that kind of air superiority with U.S. backing Japan up.



Chinese Navy has CY-1 anti submarine ballistic missiles. The missiles could be launched from warships, and airplanes.

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## Oldman1

Place Of Space said:


> Chinese Navy has CY-1 anti submarine ballistic missiles. The missiles could be launched from warships, and airplanes.



China built an anti submarine ballistic missile that can be launched from surface warships and planes? How can they do that?


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## Place Of Space

Oldman1 said:


> China built an anti submarine ballistic missile that can be launched from surface warships and planes? How can they do that?



I check it. it's not ballistic missile, it's intelligent anti-sub missile.

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## Oldman1

Place Of Space said:


> I check it. it's not ballistic missile, it's intelligent anti-sub missile.



Ok well thats different.


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## Place Of Space

Oldman1 said:


> Ok well thats different.



It's wast of money they use ballistic missiles to attack subs. I never heard of such weapons. The CY-1 can reach 85 km away submarines.

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## Oldman1

Place Of Space said:


> It's wast of money they use ballistic missiles to attack subs. I never heard of such weapons. The CY-1 can reach 85 km away submarines.



Never know, if you want to keep submarines far from your shores, it be something. Equip it with torpedoes or something. Just like anti ship ballistic missile.

For example, ASW aircraft has to fly low and drop a parachuted torpedo. Now there are development for high altitude torpedo dropped from 30,000ft.


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## Place Of Space

Oldman1 said:


> Never know, if you want to keep submarines far from your shores, it be something. Equip it with torpedoes or something. Just like anti ship ballistic missile.
> 
> For example, ASW aircraft has to fly low and drop a parachuted torpedo. Now there are development for high altitude torpedo dropped from 30,000ft.



You should know subs are very weak. Chop a little hole, the sub will be destroyed and officers will die all in the steel tomb. Ballistic missiles take with heavy warhead to attack destroyers, aircraft carrier, it sounds more reasonable.

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## Oldman1

Place Of Space said:


> You should know subs are very weak. Chop a little hole, the sub will be destroyed and officers will die all in the steel tomb. Ballistic missiles take with heavy warhead to attack destroyers, aircraft carrier, it sounds more reasonable.



Well if the hull of submarines are very weak, then just put a depth charge on a ballistic missile.


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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> For the first time, Japan is using the live target practice for its new anti-ship missile.
> 
> The Shirane class, a 7500 tons retired DDG that was built in the 1970s.
> 
> Japan to Test its New XASM-3 Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile Against Shirane-class Destroyer



The title is for offensive purpose. It's not suitable to the military forum.
If you can, please show us any statement that "Japan want to sink..."

It's not weapons but when, where and how to use those show us what they want.

If 052D violates Japan territorial water and was sunk by any weapon from Japan. We can't call that as "Japan want to sink ..." . IN that case the invader forced them to do that as defensive act.
And yes, Japan is going to test an airborne supersonic AShM which is capable to sink a big destroyer. 

052D isn't the only destroyer at the size of Shirane class destroyer.

Again, when, where and how they use that weapon show the real meaning.

Btw, XASM-3 is superior in parameters, anyone know any potential competitor to it ?
@Nihonjin1051

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## Aepsilons

BoQ77 said:


> The title is for offensive purpose. It's not suitable to the military forum.
> If you can, please show us any statement that "Japan want to sink..."
> 
> It's not weapons but when, where and how to use those show us what they want.
> 
> If 052D violates Japan territorial water and was sunk by any weapon from Japan. We can't call that as "Japan want to sink ..." . IN that case the invader forced them to do that as defensive act.
> And yes, Japan is going to test an airborne supersonic AShM which is capable to sink a big destroyer.
> 
> Again, when, where and how they use that weapon show the real meaning.
> 
> Btw, XASM-3 is superior in parameters, anyone know any potential competitor to it ?
> @Nihonjin1051




Glad to see you posting here again, my friend.


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## Slave_to_the_waffle

Oldman1 said:


> Ok well thats different.



CY-1 is similar to the US RUM-139 VL-ASROC. It uses a rocket motor to propel a homing torpedo into the water at high-speeds and at long ranges. Cool, but nothing spectacular.






RUM-139 contains a MK 46 light-weight torpedo:






This is an old RUR-5 ASROC launched from a MK 112 "Matchbox" from a Knox class frigate:






Obviously not a ballistic missile, but that idea has been thrown around too. Using land based ballistic missiles as ultra-long range ASROCs.

This wouldn't be a DF-21 class of missile, but rather a smaller battlefield weapon like WS-1:











The sensors aren't there yet for ultra-long ranged ballistic missiles to be viable delivery systems. The distances are too great and the submarine is likely to shake detection enough to escape even the best tracking right now.

Sven's given a nice rundown of why its hard to retain a lock on a submarine:

So you want to detect a submarine?






It's viable, just exploratory right now. These are land-based though, not sea or air-launched.

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## nang2

not surprising. they want to sink every chinese war boat. so do indians. all navy want to sink other navy's boats. that is what war boat is made for - sinking other war boat.

japanese bruised ego doesn't do them good. Neither does chinese inflated ego for Chinese.

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## cnleio

type052D DDG built by DaLian shipyard, 2nd shipyard in China building 052D

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## j20blackdragon

Japan's weaknesses today are exactly the same as during WW2. Nothing has changed.

-----------------------------------

Turning off the Tap: Bombing Japan's Oil Refineries and Storage Centers

By Bob Hackett

By 1944, as outlined in my preceding six Special Features, American air attacks on Southeast Asian oil refineries and storage facilities under Japanese control, combined with air and submarine predation on shipping, had effectively cut off the flow of crude oil to the home islands.

The Imperial Navy (IJN) was Japan’s largest consumer of fuel oil. In July 1944, the situation had become so desperate that the oiled-starved navy was forced to take such measures as cutting a hole in the bottom of sunken battleship MUTSU’s hulk and pumping out 580-tons of fuel oil for use by their ships in Operation Take ("Bamboo"). In the latter part of 1944, the IJN's naval aviation fuel situation had become so desperate that it began investigating the possibility of extracting aviation fuel from pine roots.

By 1945, most of Japan's naval and merchant fleet was rusting on the bottom of the Pacific Ocean; nevertheless, Japan stubbornly soldiered on. Now, her urgent need was for aviation gasoline for fighter aircraft to defend against increasing raids by American Boeing B-29 “Superfortress” heavy bombers that in March 1945 had fire-bombed and destroyed most of Tokyo and threatened the Emperor in his Imperial Palace. Aviation gasoline was also needed to power Japan’s final weapon, their “kamikaze” suicide planes.

Japan's Oil Refineries and Storage Centers, Bob Hackett

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## cnleio

China 5th and 6th new type052D out in JiangNan shipyard

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## cnleio

2015.12.27, China JN shipyard lauched 8th 052D DDG

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## hk299792458

Another pictures for this 8th *Type 052D* destroyer for Changxing Jiangnan launched today, which is also the 9th in total put into the water of this class.











As the CX#09 ship is already behind the 8th one, these modules should be those of the CX#10 ship.











Henri K.

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## 帅的一匹

How many 052d PLN plans to build? I think the number shall be over 12 units?

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## neytirilover

wanglaokan said:


> How many 052d PLN plans to build? I think the number shall be over 12 units?


People are talking about more than 16 of these ships planned.

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## cnleio

Put all 15x type052C/D DDGs together, COOL !

@english_man @mike2000 is back @Indos @madokafc @pr1v4t33r @Nihonjin1051 @F-22Raptor @500 @C130 @VALKRYIE @ahojunk @T-55 @Audio @Viet @yoshi.oda @Lure @biendong @Elkanah @apiSubmarine @Zero_wing @Daniel808 @Hamartia Antidote

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## cnleio

Put all 15x type052C/D DDGs together, COOL !

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## cnleio

The last one 15th 052C/D

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## Karvin

beautiful pictures, I like 052D.

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## XiaoYaoZi

Oldman1 said:


> Just their presence is enough to force the Chinese Navy not to come out of their port. All the Japanese has to do is lie down and wait.


The premise of realizing that is that Japan has advantage of abundance of that toys, but the reality is that the advantage is on the side of China.

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## Oldman1

XiaoYaoZi said:


> The premise of realizing that is that Japan has advantage of abundance of that toys, but the reality is that the advantage is on the side of China.



The premise is that Japan has enough to inflict damage on China's navy and trading at the seas. Remember that the British sending two submarines is enough to hold the whole entire Argentinean Navy at bay.


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## cnleio

Oldman1 said:


> The premise is that Japan has enough to inflict damage on China's navy and trading at the seas. Remember that the British sending two submarines is enough to hold the whole entire Argentinean Navy at bay.


How many ships Argentinean Navy have ? How many ships PLAN ? Which one have the most missiles hit to enemy's land ? 



Slave_to_the_waffle said:


> CY-1 is similar to the US RUM-139 VL-ASROC. It uses a rocket motor to propel a homing torpedo into the water at high-speeds and at long ranges. Cool, but nothing spectacular.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


China type054A FFG's VLS cells already install Yu-8 "China ASROC", not CY-1 .... Yu-8 is the standard VLS-launched anti-sub rocket-boosted torpedo for PLAN ships.

News photos to prove PLAN VLS-launched anti-sub rocket-boosted torpedo: Yu-8 "China ASROC"





Source: Leio's PLA military photos (kinds of military equipments) | Page 69

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## XiaoYaoZi

Oldman1 said:


> The premise is that Japan has enough to inflict damage on China's navy and trading at the seas. Remember that the British sending two submarines is enough to hold the whole entire Argentinean Navy at bay.


Sorry, the submarines Brits had were nuclear subs that Japanese don't have. China have over 15 nuclear subs(accurate number no one know, we just know the number was added at least one per year), China also have over 70 conventionally-powered submarines.

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## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> The premise is that Japan has enough to inflict damage on China's navy and trading at the seas. Remember that the British sending two submarines is enough to hold the whole entire Argentinean Navy at bay.


Trying to compare argentina navy to PLAN is simply a joke. Somalia navy is compare to USN. Happy?

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## terranMarine

He is old, must be suffering from dementia. PLAN comparable to Argentina Navy from the 80s? 
This is 2016, he should be doing more homework before making himself look like a fool. PLAN's inventory is more than enough to strike fear into the hearts of Japanese Navy. We have > 60 subs that alone can deal a heavy blow, by 2021 we will most likely have 30 modern destroyers at our disposal, even whispering DF-21Ds Japanese will be crapping in their pants.

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## 帅的一匹

When China is serious and strong, Japan is not that much to worry about.



terranMarine said:


> He is old, must be suffering from dementia. PLAN comparable to Argentina Navy from the 80s?
> This is 2016, he should be doing more homework before making himself look like a fool. PLAN's inventory is more than enough to strike fear into the hearts of Japanese Navy. We have > 60 subs that alone can deal a heavy blow, by 2021 we will most likely have 30 modern destroyers at our disposal, even whispering DF-21Ds Japanese will be crapping in their pants.


This kind of selected dementia really make me wanna throw up sometimes.

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## LowPost

*China’s Growing Naval Power Confronts Western Threats*
*Military Analysis: The Type 052D Class Guided Missile Destroyer *

_SouthFront: Analysis & Intelligence is continuing to study the balance of powers in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region. China has already contributed and is contributing many resources to the modernization of its Navy. The growing Chinese naval power is the main reason of the US’s attention to the South China Sea and the whole American policy aimed to restrain the Chinese expansion in the region. In turn, without a powerful Navy, China won’t be able to continue pursue own geopolitical goals and defend crucial maritime routes._

*Introduction*

When most people think of a modern warship, they envision a sleek vessel with a stealthy superstructure, an advanced sensor and communications capability, a vertical launch system (VLS) and a balance of anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-aircraft warfare (AAW) capabilities. The U.S. _Arleigh Burke_ Class DDG is the poster boy of modern surface warfare ships. For many years, and arguably for many more to come, the _Arleigh Burke_ Class DDG has been at the cutting edge of naval combatant design. It is; however, no longer alone.

Many nations that have advanced naval capabilities took notice when the first _Arleigh Burke_ Class DDG came in to service, and immediately set out to learn from its strengths and to avoid its weaknesses. A number of nations incorporated into the U.S. defense structure, set out to build similar platforms with the same combat management system and defensive and offensive capabilities. Nations that found themselves outside this defense structure, and often times the target of a robust and adversarial U.S. defense posture decided to go “back to the drawing board” and design a vessel that could not only incorporate the strengths of the _Arleigh Burke_ Class, but one that could exceed them. They decided to design a better vessel.

The Chinese People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) was a force in need of modernization at this point. Chinese destroyers lacked the AAW capability to defend themselves beyond the range of land-based anti-aircraft missile batteries. With this in mind, China did not possess a “blue water” navy. In order to expand the effective range of its naval forces and to acquire the ability to project power farther out to sea, the PLAN needed modern warships that could both protect themselves and defeat an opponent.

The Chinese government would embark on the most extensive naval modernization program in modern history, one that has seen the PLAN grow from an antiquated coastwise navy to a truly potent blue water force. The crowning achievement of this effort is the Type 052 (NATO designation: _Luyang-III_) Class DDG.

*Development history*

The Type 052D Class DDG is the latest development in the Type 052 family of destroyers. The Type 052D was proceeded by the Type 052C and Type 052B Class destroyers, with the Type 052C being China’s first vessel to have true long range fleet air defense capability. The Type 052C used the same hull and propulsion systems as the Type 052B; however, the superstructure design was modernized and an active electronically scanned phased array radar was fitted coupled to a VLS equipped with 48 HQ-9 anti-aircraft missiles. This gave the vessel stand-alone AAW capabilities previously lacking in all other PLAN vessels. The ship also carried a complement of 8 anti-ship cruise missiles, carried in two 4 cell launchers. Rounding out her armaments, the Type 052C carries a 100mm deck gun, 2 x 30mm close-in defense guns and 6 x 324mm torpedo tubes in two triple launchers. The vessel has an aft hangar and flight deck for one helicopter for support, reconnaissance and long range ASW defense. The first Type 052C, _Lanzhou DDG-170_ was commissioned in September of 2005.






Type 052C picture illustrating convex radar array panels and round VLS 6 cell launchers.


China continued to make rapid advancements in both missile technology, battle management systems and AESA multi-function phased array radars in the first decade of the 21st century, and a more powerful warship built on the Type 052C platform was designed. The new vessel was designated the Type 052D and would be equipped with more advanced detection and targeting systems and an ingenious modular VLS. This modular VLS sets the Type 052D apart from other DDGs in the navies of the world and is a true game changer for the PLAN.

Capabilities

The Type 052D is a true blue water navy warship. It hull and propulsion provide good seaworthiness, maneuverability and speed. Her AESA radar has obviously been improved with the most advanced such radar that China has produced. The easiest way to tell is by contrasting the flat panel phased array radar antennae of the Type 052D with the convex panel of its predecessor the Type 052C. This denotes that the newer vessel most likely has an improved version of the Type 348 radar that is also liquid cooled, as opposed to original the air cooled version. It is surmised that this new radar may be able to detect and track stealthy aircraft such as the F-35A/B Lightning II, but at what effective range is unknown.





Type 052D DDG.


The Type 052D has incorporated a brand new VLS system, which is also different from the Type052C VLS’s 6-missile cylinders. The new modular VLS is the most striking improvement of the new DDG. It is rectangular in design, with one 32 cell unit mounted forward of the superstructure and one 32 cell unit mounted aft. The VLS system resembles the U.S. Mk41 VLS, with no visible exhaust ports, which denotes that the system is either capable of cold launch, or the exhaust is vectored to a different location than its predecessor. Each VLS cell can house 4 missiles of different types. The VLS system is capable of launching surface-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles, anti-ship cruise missiles including the YJ-18, anti-submarine missiles, and land attack cruise missiles. Such a system allows the Type 052D to be armed with a variety of missiles dependent upon the mission requirements. In theory, all VLS cells could be loaded with anti-ship missiles or anti-ship cruise missiles to create a powerful “Aircraft Carrier Strike Group Killer”. Such a load-out is imprudent, but possible. A more balanced armament would be most likely, and would be tailored to the mission, and with 12 vessels in the Type 052D Class planned, this represent a great deal of firepower.






Detail of differing VLS and AESA radar arrays of Type 052C and 052D Class DDGs.


*YJ-18 Anti-ship Cruise Missile*

The YJ-18 anti-ship cruise missile poses a significant threat to the U.S. Navy as well as any other potential adversary. It is believed that the missile has a subsonic cruising speed of roughly Mach 0.8 and then before striking its target it enters a terminal stage of supersonic speeds of up to Mach 3, which makes it extremely hard to intercept. The YJ-18 has an effective range of 290 nautical miles, with a theoretical threat area of 264,200 square nautical miles. This missile reportedly has an inertial guidance system fed by the BeiDuo Satellite System (BDS), often referred to as the Chinese GPS system.

*Specifications:*

Displacement: approaching 7,000 tons fully loaded.

L.O.A.: 156 m/ 511.8 ft.

Beam: 18 m/ 59 ft.

Draft: 6.5 m/ 21.3 ft.

Propulsion: Twin gas-turbine main engines, twin marine diesel auxiliaries.

Speed: 30+ knots.

Crew: 280

Weapons Systems:

64 cell VLS armed with any combination of ASW, ASCM, LACM, and SAMs.


CY-5 ASW missiles
HHQ-9 long range SAMs
DK-10A medium range SAMs
YJ-18 or YJ-83 ASCMs
CJ-10 LACMs
1 x H/PJ-38 130mm deck gun.

2 x 30mm remote control guns

1 x H/PJ-12 CIWS

1 x 24 cell launcher for HHQ-10 short range SAMs

2 x triple launchers for 324mm torpedoes

Aviation: Hangar and flight deck for 1 helicopter.

*Building Project*

One of the more striking aspects of the Type 052D DDG program is the rate at which these surface warfare platforms have been constructed. Building of the first vessel the _Kunming DDG-172_, was commenced in 2012. Since then, a total of nine vessels have been built, with a tenth under construction. Three vessels are currently commissioned and operating with the PLAN’s South Sea Fleet. A total of twelve Type 052D DDGs are planned before resources and efforts are put into the larger 055 Type DDG.

*Base of Operations*

It is no coincidence that all three of the active Type 052Ds (_Kunming DDG-172, Changsha DDG-173_, and _Hefei DDG-174_) are assigned to the South Sea Fleet and are based at the PLAN fleet naval base on Hainan Island. This sends a clear message to other claimants to disputed South China Sea islands and waters that China has the power and intention of backing their claims with force if necessary. These vessels also act as a strong access/area denial tool with their capable AESA radars and powerful AAW and ASW capabilities. With these vessels, the PLAN can create a large air defense umbrella over Chinese military operations and building projects in the region.

*Future Development*

The PLAN has been working on a larger and more powerful vessel than the Type 052D DDG that they call the Type 055 DDG. Although called a destroyer, a design displacement of over 10,000 tons (some sources suggest a displacement as large as 14,000 tons) would put the vessel into the category of a guided missile cruiser (CG). The vessel would most likely be designed as a fleet command vessel and powerful air defense platform for a future aircraft carrier strike group. Although construction has not yet begun on such a vessel, a mock-up to test the layout of radar arrays and other sensors, communications and information processing systems has been built in Wuhan, China. The vessel would likely be armed with two 64 cell VLS fore and aft of the bridge, a large deck gun in a stealthy turret, as well as a full complement of ASW weapons and close-in defense systems. Missile complement for the 128 total VLS cells would be similar to the Type 052, with the possible addition of more capable cruise missiles not yet disclosed. There would be hangar space aft for two helicopters as well as a flight deck.





Type 055 DDG/CG concept.


*Conclusions*

China has steadily modernized its navy over the past two decades, with an obvious acceleration in both its capabilities and acquisition of vessels in recent years. The PLAN is now fielding vessels that are arguably on par with western navies, and have a decided advantage over all other regional navies with the exceptions of Japan and Australia. In this case; however, they are rapidly gaining a numerical superiority.

The Type 052D guided missile destroyer is an extremely capable, modern surface warfare combatant that provides the PLAN with a strengthened and growing blue water capability. The PLAN will no longer be limited in its range of operations, dependent upon land-based air defense coverage. The Type 052D DDG can stand alone and defend itself from multiple threats. It is a great ASW and AAW platform for fleet defense and will be instrumental in development of a modern Chinese aircraft carrier battle group. With the acquisition of an aircraft carrier, and with a second currently being built, as well as three type 052D DDGs (of 12) and four Type 071 LPDS (of 6) China has built a formidable access/area denial capability to reinforce its claims in the South China Sea. It is important to note that China has gained this capability in just the past decade. Additional vessels of smaller displacement such as the Type 054A Class frigate and Type 056 Class corvette have also been built in large numbers in the same time period.

As nations with conflicting claims in the South China Sea are faced with going into battle against a Chinese navy that has exponentially grown in size and capability, they may see military confrontation as exceedingly futile. A naval alliance of opposing claimants has been building in response, with Vietnam and the Philippines joining forces with non-claimant nations such as Indonesia, Australia and the United States. An added urgency has recently manifested itself in recent “freedom of navigation” operations on the part of this alliance, with both the U.S. and now Australia flying aircraft over Chinese island building projects in the Spratly Islands. Tensions are increasing with the U.S. sending the Arleigh Burke Class _USS Lassen_ _DDG-82_ and a number of flights of aircraft, including B-52 strategic bombers within twelve miles of the islands.

If China can avoid being drawn into a conflict early on, and gain the time required to establish its artificial island bases in the region and complete the commissioning of the modern naval vessels already being built, the nation will be at a distinct advantage. China has the resources, ingenuity and manpower to win a naval arms race with its neighbors. Chinese ability to control access to the South China Sea and effectively control this entire area is just a matter of time.

_Written by *Brian Kalman* for *SouthFront: Analysis & Intelligence. *Brian Kalman is a management professional in the marine transportation industry. He was an officer in the US Navy for eleven years. He currently resides and works in the Caribbean._

The original source of this article is South Front
Copyright © Brian Kalman, South Front, 2016

China’s Growing Naval Power Confronts Western Threats | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

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## Oldman1

Beast said:


> Trying to compare argentina navy to PLAN is simply a joke. Somalia navy is compare to USN. Happy?



No its not. I mean after all, people like to point out how the U.S. Navy had a hard time with submarines during exercises which is the largest and most powerful in the world. Imagine how hard time China will have eh?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> No its not. I mean after all, people like to point out how the U.S. Navy had a hard time with submarines during exercises which is the largest and most powerful in the world. Imagine how hard time China will have eh?



I think China can easily catch up with the USN in the near future.

- China has two production lines for the aircraft carrier, the US currently has one.

- China has three production lines for the cruiser/destroyer, the US currently has two.

- China will soon open the second production line for the nuclear sub, the US currently has two.

So it doesn't take an Einstein brain to figure out this major trend.

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## Oldman1

XiaoYaoZi said:


> Sorry, the submarines Brits had were nuclear subs that Japanese don't have. China have over 15 nuclear subs(accurate number no one know, we just know the number was added at least one per year), China also have over 70 conventionally-powered submarines.



Its not the question of nuclear submarines or not. Its a submarine. And considering Japan is near home, they don't need a nuclear boat. Dozens of submarines is dangerous to China's Navy no doubt that. There are many targets for the Japanese.



cnleio said:


> How many ships Argentinean Navy have ? How many ships PLAN ? Which one have the most missiles hit to enemy's land ?
> 
> 
> China type054A FFG's VLS cells already install Yu-8 "China ASROC", not CY-1 .... Yu-8 is the standard VLS-launched anti-sub rocket-boosted torpedo for PLAN ships.
> 
> News photos to prove PLAN VLS-launched anti-sub rocket-boosted torpedo: Yu-8 "China ASROC"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Leio's PLA military photos (kinds of military equipments) | Page 69



Its not the question of ships capable of hitting land. I mean just the British submarines kept the Argentinean Navy away. Not because they massively bombing Argentina all over the place on its soil. Which it never happened.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think China can easily catch up with the USN in the near future.
> 
> - China has two production lines for the aircraft carrier, the US currently has one.
> 
> - China has three production lines for the cruiser/destroyer, the US currently has two.
> 
> - China will soon open the second production line for the nuclear sub, the US currently has two.
> 
> So it doesn't take an Einstein brain to figure out this major trend.



Like I've said in my previous post, if previous exercises where the U.S. Navy had a hard time taking on submarines, can you imagine how hard China will have if they built up the numbers where the U.S. Navy is?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> Its not the question of nuclear submarines or not. Its a submarine. And considering Japan is near home, they don't need a nuclear boat. Dozens of submarines is dangerous to China's Navy no doubt that. There are many targets for the Japanese.



Without the air superiority, it is a hopeless battle for Japan against China.

China's powerful air superiority and surface fleet will soon flush out Japan's few AIP subs.

PS, China's AIP subs are by far in larger number with more advanced cell fuel standard compared to the 1990s Swedish Stirling engine.



Oldman1 said:


> Like I've said in my previous post, if previous exercises where the U.S. Navy had a hard time taking on submarines, can you imagine how hard China will have if they built up the numbers where the U.S. Navy is?



The US navy will have a hard time to simultaneously deal against a large number of nuclear subs with its surface fleet keeps at bay.

However, to deal with a measly 6 conventional subs aren't a major challenge for the USN.

Come on, Japan is just your little pet, you pretend it is so powerful even at the expense to downgrade your own capability?

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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Without the air superiority, it is a hopeless battle for Japan against China.
> 
> China's powerful air superiority and surface fleet will soon flush out Japan's few AIP subs.
> 
> PS, China's AIP subs are by far in larger number with more advanced cell fuel standard compared to the 1990s Swedish Stirling engine.



Air superiority is important, but to modern subs they are not as affected by it since they can stay in the waters for months except for food based on endurance. And China cannot wait for months with trade and Navy ships stuck in port.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The US navy will have a hard time to simultaneously deal against a large number of nuclear subs with its surface fleet keeps at bay.
> 
> However, to deal with a measly 6 conventional subs aren't a major challenge for the USN.
> 
> Come on, Japan is just your little pet, you pretend it is so powerful even at the expense to downgrade your own capability?



Submarines are very dangerous. Testing a Swedish, Australian or French submarines against the U.S. Navy with just one of their boats shows how dangerous they are. And Japan doesn't have 6 conventional boats. They have dozens.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> Air superiority is important, but to modern subs they are not as affected by it since they can stay in the waters for months except for food based on endurance. And China cannot wait for months with trade and Navy ships stuck in port.
> 
> 
> 
> Submarines are very dangerous. Testing a Swedish, Australian or French submarines against the U.S. Navy with just one of their boats shows how dangerous they are. And Japan doesn't have 6 conventional boats. They have dozens.



It is true for the modern nuclear subs which can silently sail at 20 knots for 3 months.

However, the conventional subs are severely restricted by its battery power. An AIP sub can only stay at 1-2 knots in order to remain silently underwater for a month.

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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is true for the modern nuclear subs which can silently sail at 20 knots for 3 months.
> 
> However, the conventional subs are severely restricted by its battery power. An AIP sub can only stay at 1-2 knots in order to remain silently underwater for a month.



True, the pros and cons of conventional subs, but the pros outweighs the cons and depending on the situation.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> True, the pros and cons of conventional subs, but the pros outweighs the cons and depending on the situation.



Well, China has by far a larger number of AIP subs to play the ambushing role in the littoral waters around the East China Sea and South China Sea.

Then it should be a by far a larger threat for the USN to sail in the vicinity according to your logic.

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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, China has by far a larger number of AIP subs to play the ambushing role in the littoral waters around the East China Sea and South China Sea.
> 
> Then it should be a by far a larger threat for the USN to sail in the vicinity according to your logic.



Indeed, the submarine threat the most major problem for the U.S. Navy than over other threats even DF-21 because they can see that and counter it with anti ballistic defense. Best way to hunt submarines is another submarine. But that takes time.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> Indeed, the submarine threat the most major problem for the U.S. Navy than over other threats even DF-21 because they can see that and counter it with anti ballistic defense. Best way to hunt submarines is another submarine. But that takes time.



We should ask about @Martian2 how much effort needs to counter against 6-7 first generation AIP subs like the Soryu class.

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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We should ask about @Martian2 how much effort needs to counter against 6-7 first generation AIP subs like the Soryu class.



Considering how the U.S. Navy failed to find the Swedish sub. Probably alot of effort.


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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think China can easily catch up with the USN in the near future.
> 
> - China has two production lines for the aircraft carrier, the US currently has one.
> 
> - China has three production lines for the cruiser/destroyer, the US currently has two.
> 
> - China will soon open the second production line for the nuclear sub, the US currently has two.
> 
> So it doesn't take an Einstein brain to figure out this major trend.



China Navy would overpass USN in quantity , for sure , *If* US doesn't have any sudden demand to increase their fleet.


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> China Navy would overpass USN in quantity , for sure , *If* US doesn't have any sudden demand to increase their fleet.



This quantity is not like North Korea to build up several hundred of midget subs and thousand of missile boats.

This is the based on the quantity of the high end flag ships such as the aircraft carriers, cruisers/destroyers, and nuclear subs.

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## Martian2

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We should ask about @Martian2 how much effort needs to counter against 6-7 first generation AIP subs like the Soryu class.


In the East China Sea, China has all of the advantages against Japan. Since China has entered mass production of J-20 stealth fighters, China will have air superiority. By controlling the airspace, China can bring all of its anti-submarine assets into play.

*China has anti-submarine warfare capability.*

1. China has a lot of nuclear and diesel-electric attack submarines. Japan is outgunned in quantity and quality.

2. China has Type 054A frigates and Type 056 light-frigates that have towed-array VDS (ie. variable depth sonar) to detect submarines.

3. China has a Sino-SOSUS network in the East China Sea.

4. China has Z-9C helicopters with anti-submarine warfare equipment that can fly from Type 052C/052D destroyers, Type 054A frigates, or Type 056 light frigates.






"Type 054A features a helipad and hangar for a medium-sized helicopter."

5. China's Y-8Q is equivalent to the American Poseidon P-3C sub-hunter airplane.

In conclusion, Japanese Soryu submarines are not likely to survive for very long.
----------

Additionally, a Chinese Yuan with AIP should be far superior to a Japanese Soryu. The Chinese Yuan has flank sonar arrays. I believe the sonar arrays use interferometry. Also, China builds the world's fastest supercomputers. Since supercomputers are used in digital signal processing, China should have the edge in identifying a Japanese submarine.

The Chinese Type 095 SSN submarine crew will gain valuable experience training on the digital simulator. Since the Chinese government is flush with a massive trade surplus, we expect Chinese submarine crews to be better-trained than Japanese crews.

*Yuan submarine "low-frequency passive flank array"*

The following is an excerpt of the full article regarding China's Yuan submarine at USNI News.

Essay: Inside the Design of China’s Yuan-class Submarine - USNI News





----------

*China's third-generation advanced Type 095 nuclear attack submarine will "enter service sometime between 2017 and 2019."*

NEW CHINESE SUBMARINE SIMULATOR PROVIDES CLUES TO FUTURE NAVAL POWER | Popular Science

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## ChineseTiger1986

Martian2 said:


> In the East China Sea, China has all of the advantages against Japan. Since China has entered mass production of J-20 stealth fighters, China will have air superiority. By controlling the airspace, China can bring all of its anti-submarine assets into play.
> 
> *China has anti-submarine warfare capability.*
> 
> 1. China has a lot of nuclear and diesel-electric attack submarines. Japan is outgunned in quantity and quality.
> 
> 2. China has Type 054A frigates and Type 056 light-frigates that have towed-array VDS (ie. variable depth sonar) to detect submarines.
> 
> 3. China has a Sino-SOSUS network in the East China Sea.
> 
> 4. China has Z-9C helicopters with anti-submarine warfare equipment that can fly from Type 052C/052D destroyers, Type 054A frigates, or Type 056 light frigates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Type 054A features a helipad and hangar for a medium sized helicopter."
> 
> 5. China's Y-8Q is equivalent to the American Poseidon P-3C sub-hunter airplane.
> 
> In conclusion, Japanese Soryu submarines are not likely to survive for very long.
> ----------
> 
> Additionally, a Chinese Yuan with AIP should be far superior to a Japanese Soryu. The Chinese Yuan has flank sonar arrays. I believe the sonar arrays use interferometry. Also, China builds the world's fastest supercomputers. Since supercomputers are use in digital signal processing, China should have the edge in identifying a Japanese submarine.
> 
> The Chinese Type 095 submarine crew will gain valuable experience training on the digital simulator. Since the Chinese government is flush with a massive trade surplus, we expect Chinese submarine crews to be better-trained than Japanese crews.
> 
> *Yuan submarine "low-frequency passive flank array"*
> 
> The following is an excerpt of the full article regarding China's Yuan submarine at USNI News.
> 
> Essay: Inside the Design of China’s Yuan-class Submarine - USNI News


Japan's Soryu class is probably going to be some dead fishes in the East China Sea. The littoral waters are in China's side and are fully ambushed by China's own AIP sub fleet.

China's Type 095/093G will probably hunt down the Soryu subs in the deeper waters of the East China Sea.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This quantity is not like North Korea to build up several hundred of midget subs and thousand of missile boats.
> 
> This is the based on the quantity of the high end flag ships such as the aircraft carriers, cruisers/destroyers, and nuclear subs.



If US stay still, how many year for China to make 10 aircraft carriers and carrier based flankers and supportive fixed wingsfor those?


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> If US stay still, how many year for China to make 10 aircraft carriers and carrier based flankers and supportive fixed wingsfor those?



In approximately 20 years, and the US will also stay with 10 supercarrier battlegroups in the next 20 years.

The modern aircraft carriers are extremely expensive and complicated to build, unlike those WWII aircraft carriers.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> In approximately 20 years, and the US will also stay with 10 supercarrier battlegroups in the next 20 years.
> 
> The modern aircraft carriers are extremely expensive and complicated to build, unlike those WWII aircraft carriers.



As I know, the current and the next one of China are not supercarrier.


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> As I know, the current and the next one of China are not supercarrier.



It doesn't matter, no one is building the supercarrier except the US.

So expect China to be the second country to build the nuclear supercarrier after 2020.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This quantity is not like North Korea to build up several hundred of midget subs and thousand of missile boats.
> 
> This is the based on the quantity of the high end flag ships such as the aircraft carriers, cruisers/destroyers, and nuclear subs.





ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It doesn't matter, no one is building the supercarrier except the US.
> 
> So expect China to be the second country to build the nuclear supercarrier after 2020.



So that's what I said And as your post, 20 years later , the quantity is no problem.

Again, when would China have supercarrier, 2024?


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> So that's what I said And as your post, 20 years later , the quantity is no problem.
> 
> Again, when would China have supercarrier, 2024?



The first one could start the construction by 2020.

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## Blue Marlin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Japan's Soryu class is probably going to be some dead fishes in the East China Sea. The littoral waters are in China's side and are fully ambushed by China's own AIP sub fleet.
> 
> China's Type 095/093G will probably hunt down the Soryu subs in the deeper waters of the East China Sea.


aip subs are quieter than nuclear subs thats a fact.
noisy nuclear subs stay in littoral waters as they can be detected quiet easily as they are noisy and create a lot of vibrations due to the large pumps and cooling units for the reactor. it not only china even india their sub is restricted to littoral waters as it can be detected quiet easily.
but quiet nuclear sub can go where ever they feel like going and is only restricted by food supplies



BoQ77 said:


> As I know, the current and the next one of China are not supercarrier.


super carriers are 70000+ tonnes 
so the liaoning just misses the "super carrier" label by 2500 tonne

@Deino, can you move some of the post son this thread to the relevant thread please, as it is not relevant to the type 052d
thanks


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## Super Falcon

PN should buy 2 of these rather than 4 F 22P frigates we need heavy fire power in arabian sea to maintain minimum deterance of conventional weapons

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## ChineseTiger1986

Blue Marlin said:


> aip subs are quieter than nuclear subs thats a fact.
> noisy nuclear subs stay in littoral waters as they can be detected quiet easily as they are noisy and create a lot of vibrations due to the large pumps and cooling units for the reactor. it not only china even india their sub is restricted to littoral waters as it can be detected quiet easily.
> but quiet nuclear sub can go where ever they feel like going and is only restricted by food supplies



I meant the deep waters in the East China Sea, where the AIP subs can only sail at 2-3 knots or it gonna quickly drain out of battery power.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I meant the deep waters in the East China Sea, where the AIP subs can only sail at 2-3 knots or it gonna quickly drain out of battery power.



East China Sea isn't considered as deep water.


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> East China Sea isn't considered as deep water.



The maximum depth is 2716 meters, and most nuclear sub won't dive beyond the depth of 500 meters.

East China Sea | sea, Pacific Ocean | Britannica.com

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The maximum depth is 2716 meters, and most nuclear sub won't dive beyond the depth of 500 meters.
> 
> East China Sea | sea, Pacific Ocean | Britannica.com



Could you X mark the area with 2716 meter of depth in ECS ? please
is it in the Japan EEZ ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> Could you X mark the area with 2716 meter of depth in ECS ? please
> is it in the Japan EEZ ?



It is located closer to Japan's coast.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I meant the deep waters in the East China Sea, where the AIP subs can only sail at 2-3 knots or it gonna quickly drain out of battery power.



I don't get your meaning about AIP subs can only sail at 2-3 knots ?
Actually, AIP subs only sail at 2-3 knots at ambush mode, especially at shallow water.

When you said China nuclear subs "hunt" that means "at full operation". So I'm worried that in that case the victim would be the "hunters"

And huge nuclear subs are much easier to get caught compare to much smaller and quieter AIP subs, at any mode.

to describe your statement "big nuclear sub hunts small quiet Soryu sub in the water near Japan coast". I must say that's suicide attempt.


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## 帅的一匹

BoQ77 said:


> I don't get your meaning about AIP subs can only sail at 2-3 knots ?
> Actually, AIP subs only sail at 2-3 knots at ambush mode, especially at shallow water.
> 
> When you said China nuclear subs "hunt" that means "at full operation". So I'm worried that in that case the victim would be the "hunters"
> 
> And huge nuclear subs are much easier to get caught compare to much smaller and quieter AIP subs, at any mode.
> 
> to describe your statement "big nuclear sub hunts small quiet Soryu sub in the water near Japan coast". I must say that's suicide attempt.


What about ambush from east coast of Japan ?

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## CAPRICORN-88

BoQ77 said:


> I don't get your meaning about AIP subs can only sail at 2-3 knots ?



*Since when did the world body renamed the "PACIFIC OCEAN" as "Philippine Sea".

Are you a paid propagandist for a new boss BS Aquino?*

*Please stick to facts and stop trolling!*

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## cnleio

PLAN type052D DDG training on sea

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## cirr

cnleio said:


> PLAN type052D DDG training on sea
> 
> View attachment 296748
> View attachment 296749
> View attachment 296750
> View attachment 296751
> View attachment 296752
> View attachment 296753



500 million USD a ship, bloody cheap.

Build 50 for starters.

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## 帅的一匹

cirr said:


> 500 million USD a ship, bloody cheap.
> 
> Build 50 for starters.


be patient, more bloody 055 is coming

When you get invloved in a war with China, it means suicide. Yankee never understand it before it's too late. What a pity!

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## BoQ77

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Since when did the world body renamed the "PACIFIC OCEAN" as "Philippine Sea".*
> 
> *Are you a paid propagandist for a new boss BS Aquino?*
> 
> *Please stick to facts and stop trolling!*



that's an international term, 
Philippine Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## 帅的一匹

A weak country don't deserve a sea.

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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> be patient, more bloody 055 is coming
> 
> When you get invloved in a war with China, it means suicide. Yankee never understand it before it's too late. What a pity!



Blood-thirsty 055 is also “bloody cheap” compared with what the Brits have to pay for their Type 45 or the Yankees for their latest Burkes。

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## 帅的一匹

If Phillipine wanna change South China Sea to Phillipine sea, they have to shed their bloodbath to make it. Come and take it!

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## cnleio

PLAN 3rd type052D DDG-174 "He Fei" & command room

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## nang2

wanglaokan said:


> A weak country don't deserve a sea.


Sounds like might is right.


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## cnleio

1st type052D DDG built by North China DaLian shipyard, ready to launch !

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## cnleio

CCTV news released photos on Navy type052D DDG

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## cnleio

CCTV news released photos on Navy type052D DDG

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## cnleio

More photos of Navy type052D's command room from CCTV news

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## cnleio

More photos of Navy type052D's command room from CCTV news

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## cnleio

More photos of Navy type052D's command room from CCTV news

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## Beast

I am sure if they show photo of Type 52D launching LACM, HQ-9 and asroc. The message will be stronger

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## cnleio

Beast said:


> I am sure if they show photo of Type 52D launching LACM, HQ-9 and asroc. The message will be stronger


 Just like this ...

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## monitor

cnleio said:


> 1st type052D DDG built by North China DaLian shipyard, ready to launch !
> 
> 
> View attachment 305255



Old picture ?aren't many Type 52D already made ?


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## cnleio

monitor said:


> Old picture ?aren't many Type 52D already made ?


That's the type052D building by DaLian shipyard of North China, it's China 2nd shipyard building type052D DDGs.

Currently both JiangNan shipyard and DaLian shipyard building type052D for Navy together ... in the photo it's 1st type052D from the DaLian shipyard, JiangNan shipyard already built & building 6x type052D DDGs. So right now China has 7~8x type052D, 4x already joint the PLAN, rest in both shipyards ready to launch ... future there will be more type052D DDGs from JiangNan and DaLian shipyards.

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> Just like this ...
> View attachment 305304



No, that is not clear. The nay-slayer will claim that is only SAM. Something more clearly to show the specific type of missile launch like this.

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## 星海军事

The 13th 052D was spotted

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## cnleio

China DaLian, the 2nd shipyard building new type052D DDGs (3x) for PLAN










Type052D's 130mm ship-gun fire photos

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## lcloo

052D cutting through waves in speed during high sea state. DDG 174?

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## Nabil365

Which is deadlier Kolkata class,type 052D or sejong the great(Korean destroyer)


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## hk299792458

lcloo said:


> 052D cutting through waves in speed during high sea state. DDG 174?
> 
> View attachment 306354



174 in 7m wave.

http://www.81.cn/syjdt/2016-05/22/content_7065982_6.htm



> 尤其赶上大风浪，*7米高的巨浪扑上船舷*，打在厨房门上示威，焉知里面的人其实早已在满地狼藉之间“俯首称臣”，九个人有六个坐地上“哇哇”，另三个勉强能扶着灶沿尽职尽责。



Henri K.

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## cnleio

Type052D VLS open

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## cnleio

"Made in China" VLS on type052D DDG

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## cirr



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## lcloo

Living space of 052D, a far cry from the days of 051 DDG.

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## lcloo



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## cnleio



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## 星海军事

One 052D is named after Guiyang.

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## cnleio

China DaLian shipyard's type052D building

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## cnleio

Photos of PLAN type052D training

连日来，南海舰队某驱逐舰支队多艘驱护舰组织舰艇编队，在南海某海域进行了编队运动、舰机协同、直升机引导超视距打击、防空抗导等实战化科目的演练。演练中，他们克服高温、高湿、高盐环境对人员、装备带来的不利影响，通过设置逼真敌情，逼着各级指挥员想办法、找对策，提升了部队在复杂环境遂行使命任务的能力。图为新型驱逐舰主炮射击准备。中新社发 黎友陶 摄

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## lcloo

The NBC (nuclear biological and chemical) cleaning tools needs improvement. Iron bucket and simple scrupper is simply taking up too much time to finish the job.

Pneumatic or electricity powered scruppers and sprayers should not cost much. Should take a look at modern car wash equipment !

PLA army is better equiped than PLAN.

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## Beast

lcloo said:


> The NBC (nuclear biological and chemical) cleaning tools needs improvement. Iron bucket and simple scrupper is simply taking up too much time to finish the job.
> 
> Pneumatic or electricity powered scruppers and sprayers should not cost much. Should take a look at modern car wash equipment !
> 
> PLA army is better equiped than PLAN.


Those photo are for domestic consumption. Chinese ordinary folks know nuts about electric powered scrapers.

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## cnleio

China 4th new type052D DDG join PLAN

*PLAN DDG-175 "YinChuan"*

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## cnleio

PLAN South Sea Fleet 3rd and 4th type052D DDGs

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## lcloo

In an article concerning a asst. director of a naval instiitution, it gave info on 052D destroyer as:-

There are now 9 ships in service and being built
The cost is estimated at RMB 3.5 billion each
Standard displacement is 6,300 tonnes, full load displacement is 8,500 tonnes
Maximum 30 knots
At 20 knots speed, max distance is 8,500 nautical miles.


175银川号导弹驱逐舰简介
我国052D型导弹驱逐舰4号舰。2014年3月28日于上海江南造船厂下水，目前服役于中国海军南海舰队
052D型导弹驱逐舰是我国最新型导弹驱逐舰，是在052C型导弹驱逐舰基础上发展的一种新型多用途导弹驱逐舰，首舰昆明号于2012年9月15日下水。目前该型舰服役及在建共有9艘。价约35亿人民币，舰长165米，宽19米，吃水6.5米，标准排水量6300 吨，满载排水量8500 吨，最大航速30节，续航力为20节时8500海里。

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## cnleio

lcloo said:


> In an article concerning a asst. director of a naval instiitution, it gave info on 052D destroyer as:-
> 
> There are now 9 ships in service and being built
> The cost is estimated at RMB 3.5 billion each
> Standard displacement is 6,300 tonnes, full load displacement is 8,500 tonnes
> Maximum 30 knots
> At 20 knots speed, max distance is 8,500 nautical miles.
> 
> 
> 175银川号导弹驱逐舰简介
> 我国052D型导弹驱逐舰4号舰。2014年3月28日于上海江南造船厂下水，目前服役于中国海军南海舰队
> 052D型导弹驱逐舰是我国最新型导弹驱逐舰，是在052C型导弹驱逐舰基础上发展的一种新型多用途导弹驱逐舰，首舰昆明号于2012年9月15日下水。目前该型舰服役及在建共有9艘。价约35亿人民币，舰长165米，宽19米，吃水6.5米，标准排水量6300 吨，满载排水量8500 吨，最大航速30节，续航力为20节时8500海里。


Each type052D cost about 0.6 billion USD ... much cheaper than U.S Navy Aegis DDG

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## Penguin

cnleio said:


> Each type052D cost about 0.6 billion USD ... much cheaper than U.S Navy Aegis DDG


Are you sure that isn't just ship cost, excl. sensors and weapons? And if it that number were ship cost inclusive 'government furnished equipment', would you have identical capabilities?



> In 1988, the total cost of the _first _AB ship was put at US$1.1 billion, the other US$778 million being for the ship's weapons systems. [i.e. $1.878 billion] The U.S. Navy began a modernization program for the _Arleigh Burke_ class. The modernization program is designed to provide a comprehensive mid-life upgrade to ensure that the class remains effective. Reduced manning, increased mission effectiveness, and a reduced total cost including construction, maintenance, and operation are the goals of the modernization program. Shipbuilding contracts for DDG-113 to DDG-115 were awarded in mid-2011 for US$679.6m–$783.6m; these do not include government-furnished equipment such as weapons and sensors which will take the average cost of the FY2011/12 ships to US$1,842.7m per vessel.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arleigh_Burke-class_destroyer
After some 30 years, and 62 hulls, the AB's total unit cost today is less than it was in 1988. Ship cost today is 33% less that in 1988 (and quite close to the supposed cost of 052D, hence the question above). Costs of 'government furnished equipment' is up 43%.

Data on ship cost varies considerably. Compare e.g. http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Defense/DDG-51-AEGIS-Destroyer.html

This is an interesting read in as far as understanding what aspects of procurement affects ship cost http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/ddg-51.htm

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## cnleio

Penguin said:


> Are you sure that isn't just ship cost, excl. sensors and weapons? And if it that number were ship cost inclusive 'government furnished equipment', would you have identical capabilities?


0.6 billion USD == 3.5 billion RMB money for one type052D.

For China the 3.5 billion is not a cheap cost, 3.5 billion in China can do a lot of things .I don't have official price just already heard many times from "the other guy" (someone in Chinese military forums knew truth) about the cost of type052D is 0.6-bil USD per piece.

If at the beginning we using American costs to develop China, we must already bankrupt.

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## Penguin

cnleio said:


> 0.6 billion USD == 3.5 billion RMB money for one type052D.
> 
> For China the 3.5 billion is not a cheap cost, 3.5 billion in China can do a lot of things .I don't have official price just already heard many times from "the other guy" (someone in Chinese military forums knew truth) about the cost of type052D is 0.6-bil USD per piece.
> 
> If at the beginning we using American costs to develop China, we must already bankrupt.


I am just trying to make sure no one is comparing apples and oranges. Which mean a) similar capabilities and b) similar "what's included in the package for that price".

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-...ally-cost-pj-wilcox-author?forceNoSplash=true


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## cnleio

Penguin said:


> I am just trying to make sure no one is comparing apples and oranges. Which mean a) similar capabilities and b) similar "what's included in the package for that price".
> 
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-...ally-cost-pj-wilcox-author?forceNoSplash=true


Yes, yes, China type052D and U.S Arleigh Burke they r different ... just all belong to Air-defense DDGs with multi-VLS on board. Although U.S's A.B more expensive still has 60+, the N.o1 most numbers in the world  ... just behind U.S Navy the N.o2 is PLAN's type052C/D and continue building many !  Well as China is there, the building of type052C/D + type055 DDGs won't stop, maybe oneday PLAN can have the same numbers air-defense DDGs. 
*This is just beginning ~! *


The article offered is interesting, using American weapon costs to calculate the price of China warship(type054A) ... sounds like "Made in China" as expensive as "Made in U.S". But that's not real !

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## Penguin

cnleio said:


> The article offered is interesting, using American weapon costs to calculate the price of China warship(type054A) ... sounds like "Made in China" as expensive as "Made in U.S". But that's not real !



The article actually arrived at price / unit cost reasonably close to what China offered the vessel for to Thailand. 
It does not compare to any other ship, US made or otherwise.


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## cnleio

Penguin said:


> The article actually arrived at price / unit cost reasonably close to what China offered the vessel for to Thailand.
> It does not compare to any other ship, US made or otherwise.


Weapons! my friend

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## Penguin

cnleio said:


> Weapons! my friend


Would you arrive at a different price qoute using e.g. cost of the Dutch Goalkeeper or French Sylver VLS? Not really. 

In reality, in the article many comparisons are made with comparable non-Chinese in-service systems. Not just US but also e.g. French, Swedish. Let's not pretend all Chinese systems are somehow magically cheaper then others, particularly when derived from or licenced versions of specific Western and non-westerns systems (Tavitac, SEMT-Pielstick, AK-176 etcs).


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## cnleio

Penguin said:


> Would you arrive at a different price qoute using e.g. cost of the Dutch Goalkeeper or French Sylver VLS? Not really.
> 
> In reality, in the article many comparisons are made with comparable non-Chinese in-service systems. Not just US but also e.g. French, Swedish. Let's not pretend all Chinese systems are somehow magically cheaper then others, particularly when derived from or licenced versions of specific Western and non-westerns systems (Tavitac, SEMT-Pielstick, AK-176 etcs).


Let me give u a example, the Apple "Made in FOXCONN" is cheaper than Apple sold in U.S ... Why ? Coz Foxconn still has many benefits to earn when assembly Apple in China. Why i knew that, coz i was in Foxconn. Advanced weapons too ~

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## lcloo

Besides cost of material, labor, R & D, financial and administrative costs are cheaper in China, US companies tend to sell their wares at great profit margin. This results in high selling price of the ships, thus the high costs to the navy. 

The key point is the selling price of the ships. The construction costs (material + labor) may not be much different between China and US but the selling prices have large difference. 

And selling price of ship = Cost of ship to navy.

Chinese shipyards with government vested stake holdings earn relatively small profits.

I don't know what is the industrial standard profit margin for US and China. However, I worked for China factory and US/ Canada company and have accessed to their financial statements. Our Chinese factory made 10%. The North Americans made upto 200% of our ex-factory costs.

Why is this so? Because their INDIRECT COSTs are relatively very high compare to Chinese. And they need high profit margin to cover these costs.

Give you some idea of ad hoc indirect costs related to arms industry in US - political donations, lobby contributions, publicity and promotions, CEO and directors' annual bonus and salaries etc etc.

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## Penguin

cnleio said:


> Let me give u a example, the Apple "Made in FOXCONN" is cheaper than Apple sold in U.S ... Why ? Coz Foxconn still has many benefits to earn when assembly Apple in China. Why i knew that, coz i was in Foxconn. Advanced weapons too ~


Stop attempting to side track this thread.


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## grey boy 2

New 052D (175) will making it the 4th 052 DDG of the South China fleet soon

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## 星海军事

One 052D (DDG-118) is named after Urumqi.

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## cnleio

星海军事 said:


> One 052D (DDG-118) is named after Urumqi.


type052D DDG-118 "Urumqi" ... from current DDG-172, DDG-173, DDG-174, DDG-175 to DDG-178 PLAN soon will equip another 3x new type052D DDGs.

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## grey boy 2

052D DDG production on a fast track mode

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## 星海军事

One 052D (DDG-155) is named after Nanjing.

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## GS Zhou

Penguin said:


> Would you arrive at a different price qoute using e.g. cost of the Dutch Goalkeeper or French Sylver VLS? Not really.
> 
> In reality, in the article many comparisons are made with comparable non-Chinese in-service systems. Not just US but also e.g. French, Swedish. Let's not pretend all Chinese systems are somehow magically cheaper then others, particularly when derived from or licenced versions of specific Western and non-westerns systems (Tavitac, SEMT-Pielstick, AK-176 etcs).



sounds that you know more about the PLA Navy warships cost than general of the PLA Navy.

Yin Zhuo (Rear Admiral and Director of the Advisory Committee for Informationization of PLA Navy): cost of 052D is about RMB 500,000 per ton.

link to the quote:
http://ft.people.com.cn/directList.do?fid=1414

and the screenshot.





052D is about 7000 ton in weight. So 7000 x 0.5 million =3,500 million, or 3.5 billion RMB.

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## cnleio

grey boy 2 said:


> 052D DDG production on a fast track mode


They r DDG-175, DDG-176, DDG-177, DDG-178 of type052D prepare for launching ... "Made in China" so fast !!!  

I heard China plan for 30+ type052C/D DDGs for 6x PLAN A.C groups ... type052D building continue for a long time.

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## Penguin

GS Zhou said:


> sounds that you know more about the PLA Navy warships cost than general of the PLA Navy.
> 
> Yin Zhuo (Rear Admiral and Director of the Advisory Committee for Informationization of PLA Navy): cost of 052D is about RMB 500,000 per ton.
> 
> link to the quote:
> http://ft.people.com.cn/directList.do?fid=1414
> 
> and the screenshot.
> View attachment 316186
> 
> 
> 052D is about 7000 ton in weight. So 7000 x 0.5 million =3,500 million, or 3.5 billion RMB.


Ship cost is determined by ship systems (i.e. armament and sensors) much more than by steel used.

Some expression of cost per ton can only be correct a) if it starts from total ship cost and then devides by tonnage for an 'fictitious' cost per ton (after all, it is not the price of the steel amnd building, but also weapons and sensors), or b) it is the real cost of steel and building i.e. the price of the ship without 'government furnished equipment' i.e. weapons and sensors'.

Admiral or no admiral, the above quite is ambigious in that it remains unclear how that $500k per ton was arrived at, what it actually represents.



cnleio said:


> I heard China plan for 30+ type052C/D DDGs for 6x PLAN A.C groups ... type052D building continue for a long time.


The inherent trouble with a big series of ships in a short time is that at some point (around 2040-2050, unless ships are used longer than 30 years, which would limit their usefulness/effectiveness ), PLAN again will face block-obsolescense.

056: over 20 commissioned between 2013 and 2016
054a: over 20 commissioned between 2008 and 2016 (not counting the pair of 054)
052C: 6 commissiones 2005-2015 (of which 4 in 2013-2015)
052D: 12 commissioned or commissioning between 2014 and 2019

[given the average current build rate of 3 per year, to get to 30 or more 052D, you take (30-12)/3= 6 more years of production i.e. production through 2025]

PLAN has been rapidly building 056's, 054a's and 052C/D's, so when it is time to start looking at replacement, it will again have to replace many vessels in a relatively short time span. 

By comparison, the USN has been building ABs slowly but steadily and in different versions since 1989. Including phased modernizations of older vessels, these will also gradually be phased out and replaced in the future.





Source: https://warisboring.com/u-s-navy-packs-firepower-into-shrinking-sub-fleet-50c72bd38b83#.qc6ijqyth

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## GS Zhou

Penguin said:


> Ship cost is determined by ship systems (i.e. armament and sensors) much more than by steel used.
> 
> Some expression of cost per ton can only be correct a) if it starts from total ship cost and then devides by tonnage for an 'fictitious' cost per ton (after all, it is not the price of the steel amnd building, but also weapons and sensors), or b) it is the real cost of steel and building i.e. the price of the ship without 'government furnished equipment' i.e. weapons and sensors'.
> 
> Admiral or no admiral, the above quite is ambigious in that it remains unclear how that $500k per ton was arrived at, what it actually represents.



you think Yin Zhuo, the Rear Admiral of PLA Navy, Leader of PLA Navy Equipment Research Institute, even doesn't have the very basic sense that the price of steel is just a few thousand RMB per ton?

Go back to the quote I highlighted. Yin was asked by some military fans: why the PLAN 052D couldn't bring more air defense missiles? Yin then answered, his team has done multiple rounds of computer simulations, and the simulations show the 64-cell VLS of 052D is capable for a future combat. In addition, more missiles to carry means more expensive ship. Suppose 2000 ton heavier, as the current 052D cost is about RMB 500,000 per ton, so PLAN needs to pay 1 billion RMB more for the larger ship. 



Penguin said:


> The inherent trouble with a big series of ships in a short time is that at some point (around 2040-2050, unless ships are used longer than 30 years, which would limit their usefulness/effectiveness ), PLAN again will face block-obsolescense.
> 
> 056: over 20 commissioned between 2013 and 2016
> 054a: over 20 commissioned between 2008 and 2016 (not counting the pair of 054)
> 052C: 6 commissiones 2005-2015 (of which 4 in 2013-2015)
> 052D: 12 commissioned or commissioning between 2014 and 2019
> 
> [given the average current build rate of 3 per year, to get to 30 or more 052D, you take (30-12)/3= 6 more years of production i.e. production through 2025]
> 
> PLAN has been rapidly building 056's, 054a's and 052C/D's, so when it is time to start looking at replacement, it will again have to replace many vessels in a relatively short time span.



Each generation has each generation's duty to accomplish. At least in our generation, we've done our duty to our country. And the next generations, our sons or grandsons, I believe they could do a better job than us.

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## cirr

At least 16(JNX12, DLX4) 052Ds commissioned, handed-over or under build

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## Penguin

GS Zhou said:


> you think Yin Zhuo, the Rear Admiral of PLA Navy, Leader of PLA Navy Equipment Research Institute, even doesn't have the very basic sense that the price of steel is just a few thousand RMB per ton?


I'm not assuming anything about anyone. 
I do know that even rear-admirals may have reason to speak either truth or to misinform.
Either way, it remains unclear where the price per ton comes from. 
All I can tell you, that price per ton is not typically the way to express ship cost in a professional setting, where more common terms would lifetime cost, program cost, building cost, operating cost. Those typically are full figures.



GS Zhou said:


> Go back to the quote I highlighted. Yin was asked by some military fans: why the PLAN 052D couldn't bring more air defense missiles? Yin then answered, his team has done multiple rounds of computer simulations, and the simulations show the 64-cell VLS of 052D is capable for a future combat. In addition, more missiles to carry means more expensive ship. Suppose 2000 ton heavier, as the current 052D cost is about RMB 500,000 per ton, so PLAN needs to pay 1 billion RMB more for the larger ship.


I more than happily go back to the highlighted area. However, I'm not Chinese and can't read the characters ;-)
One can increase the number of air defence missiles by developing and loading multipacks (duo, quad etc) in to the existing cells. Hence, it is not automatic that packing more missiles means additional tonnage. More missiles does mean greater ordnance cost per ship load-out. However, I don't see how a relatively minor stretch of the design (splicing in a hull segment that can hold e.g. 2x8 cells) would lead to huge extra costs or 2000 tons additional displacement (if that ship is 7000-8000 tons fld than +2000 tons is +25% to 29%).




GS Zhou said:


> Each generation has each generation's duty to accomplish. At least in our generation, we've done our duty to our country. And the next generations, our sons or grandsons, I believe they could do a better job than us.


Oh, I was more thinking in terms of available funding ;-)

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## cnleio

DaLian shipyard building 3x new type052D DDGs

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## Penguin

Makes sense

Number 8 Guiyang (119): Fitting out
Number 10 [unnamed] (120): Under Construction
Number 12 [unnamed] (157): Under Construction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_052D_destroyer#Ships_of_Class

Its seems to take about 2 - 2.5 years from launch to commissioning on average


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## Akasa

cnleio said:


> DaLian shipyard building 3x new type052D DDGs
> 
> View attachment 316597



We could expect a decline in 052D production at Dalian as the shipyard refurbishes to accommodate for 055s.

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## cnleio

Penguin said:


> Makes sense
> 
> Number 8 Guiyang (119): Fitting out
> Number 10 [unnamed] (120): Under Construction
> Number 12 [unnamed] (157): Under Construction
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_052D_destroyer#Ships_of_Class
> 
> Its seems to take about 2 - 2.5 years from launch to commissioning on average


6x type052C and 12x type052D DDGs, 25x type054A FFGs for PLAN ... building not end new DDGs will coming.

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## 星海军事

PLANS Yinchuan (DDG-175) begins to serve today.

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## Beast

星海军事 said:


> PLANS Yinchuan (DDG-175) begins to serve today.


PLAN needs to commission these Type052D faster.

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## cnleio

星海军事 said:


> PLANS Yinchuan (DDG-175) begins to serve today.































Beast said:


> PLAN needs to commission these Type052D faster.


The PLAN South Sea Fleet already has 2x type052C and 4x type052D DDGs and many type054A FFGs, such speed is fast !

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## nang2

Penguin said:


> Ship cost is determined by ship systems (i.e. armament and sensors) much more than by steel used.
> 
> Some expression of cost per ton can only be correct a) if it starts from total ship cost and then devides by tonnage for an 'fictitious' cost per ton (after all, it is not the price of the steel amnd building, but also weapons and sensors), or b) it is the real cost of steel and building i.e. the price of the ship without 'government furnished equipment' i.e. weapons and sensors'.
> 
> Admiral or no admiral, the above quite is ambigious in that it remains unclear how that $500k per ton was arrived at, what it actually represents.
> 
> 
> The inherent trouble with a big series of ships in a short time is that at some point (around 2040-2050, unless ships are used longer than 30 years, which would limit their usefulness/effectiveness ), PLAN again will face block-obsolescense.
> 
> 056: over 20 commissioned between 2013 and 2016
> 054a: over 20 commissioned between 2008 and 2016 (not counting the pair of 054)
> 052C: 6 commissiones 2005-2015 (of which 4 in 2013-2015)
> 052D: 12 commissioned or commissioning between 2014 and 2019
> 
> [given the average current build rate of 3 per year, to get to 30 or more 052D, you take (30-12)/3= 6 more years of production i.e. production through 2025]
> 
> PLAN has been rapidly building 056's, 054a's and 052C/D's, so when it is time to start looking at replacement, it will again have to replace many vessels in a relatively short time span.
> 
> By comparison, the USN has been building ABs slowly but steadily and in different versions since 1989. Including phased modernizations of older vessels, these will also gradually be phased out and replaced in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: https://warisboring.com/u-s-navy-packs-firepower-into-shrinking-sub-fleet-50c72bd38b83#.qc6ijqyth


China navy will be growing. By the time this block is obsolete, it will be a small block proportionally.


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## lcloo

I believe the current rate of naval ship building is just about right. Building ships to replace current numbers in service is no longer suits the geopolitical situations in seas around China.

And extra numbers of ships are required as escorts of China's future airraft carrier groups, at least 3 of which is expected and this is excluding Liaoning which wil continue to be deployed as training and experimental ship.

The hostile gangs from east ocean and west ocean will increase in force, instigated by the desire to forestall China's military and economic progress and the fear of China's rise as a world leader.

Even if China builds 60 modern destroyers and frigates, she still lacks in number against sum of 60% of US Navy pivoted to West Pacific + Japan + Taiwan and South Korea. And with the increasing warm India - US military relations, ships from India might increase their presence in South and East China seas. Then we have the Asutralians and Vietnam.

So, I think China should increase her naval ships at least to match the sum of expected naval forces from above countries deploy to China's door steps in future.

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## cnleio

lcloo said:


> I believe the current rate of naval ship building is just about right. Building ships to replace current numbers in service is no longer suits the geopolitical situations in seas around China.
> 
> And extra numbers of ships are required as escorts of China's future airraft carrier groups, at least 3 of which is expected and this is excluding Liaoning which wil continue to be deployed as training and experimental ship.
> 
> The hostile gangs from east ocean and west ocean will increase in force, instigated by the desire to forestall China's military and economic progress and the fear of China's rise as a world leader.
> 
> Even if China builds 60 modern destroyers and frigates, she still lacks in number against sum of 60% of US Navy pivoted to West Pacific + Japan + Taiwan and South Korea. And with the increasing warm India - US military relations, ships from India might increase their presence in South and East China seas. Then we have the Asutralians and Vietnam.
> 
> So, I think China should increase her naval ships at least to match the sum of expected naval forces from above countries deploy to China's door steps in future.


Building numbers strongly depend on China economy development, if everything going fine the military expenditure is not a problem.

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## PRC2025

lcloo said:


> I believe the current rate of naval ship building is just about right. Building ships to replace current numbers in service is no longer suits the geopolitical situations in seas around China.
> 
> And extra numbers of ships are required as escorts of China's future airraft carrier groups, at least 3 of which is expected and this is excluding Liaoning which wil continue to be deployed as training and experimental ship.
> 
> The hostile gangs from east ocean and west ocean will increase in force, instigated by the desire to forestall China's military and economic progress and the fear of China's rise as a world leader.
> 
> Even if China builds 60 modern destroyers and frigates, she still lacks in number against sum of 60% of US Navy pivoted to West Pacific + Japan + Taiwan and South Korea. And with the increasing warm India - US military relations, ships from India might increase their presence in South and East China seas. Then we have the Asutralians and Vietnam.
> 
> So, I think China should increase her naval ships at least to match the sum of expected naval forces from above countries deploy to China's door steps in future.



That shouldn't be a problem if China starts spending as it should - between 3 and 4 percent of the GDP on defense. China is spending too little. All those countries you mentioned - except Japan, which has massive economic and demographic problems - spend more than China on defense regarding percentages of their countries GDP.

Second of all, China should cut the number of troops even more so. I don't see the point in having more than 800.000 or 900.000 groups, which should be highly skilled with latest weapons. The resources spent less on ground troops, means more cash for missiles, navy, air force, strategic forces, cyber warfare, etc, etc.

One must remember that the reason Japan can have still, but ageing air force and navy (except subs, which are very modern) it is because Japan barely have any ground troops at all. 

The same goes for other "island" countries. China doesn't have any threat on the ground, so if China can restructure the ground troops and spend even more on navy and the air force, that can be done even with the existing budget. 

Japan and Australia on the other hand, are very squized and don't have that kind of economic luxury to squeeze out some older ground troops, since they barely have any ground troops at all.

Second of all, I don't consider Australia or South Korea to be enemies and there is nothing that indicates that. Australia is was "down below" geographically, and if Australia gets too big ambitions, that will most probably irritate Indonesia a lot.

Regarding India and Vietnam - these two should also think a bit of countries that are very good friends and allies of China, such as Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos PR, Thailand and others, while at the same time, issues with India are not that huge and there are good possibilites to solve the issues between these two.

Also, do not forget. While Saudi-Arabia is pre-occupied or obsessed with Iran, I don't think that a Wahhabi-Islamic regime is going to look very favorably on a Hindu-nationalistic regime trying to dominate anything around the Gulf area. Saudi-Arabia har started to get their own naval ambitions and you can bet they definitely crash with India's in the Gulf-area.

But, I do agree with you - just in case, China should build up it's forces even more so, and I think we are seeing just the beginning of it now. So I do agree with you in general. 

Anyway, one must not forget that China is going to sell 11 SSK submarines to Pakistan and Thailand (8+3) so that's a huge thing. I don't think there are any other countries that are producing SSK submarines that has total of 11 SSK on order from other countries.

Pakistan:
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...na-finalize-8-sub-construction-plan/73634218/

Thailand:
http://english.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/china-military-news/2016-07/05/content_7134524.htm

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## Penguin

nang2 said:


> China navy will be growing. By the time this block is obsolete, it will be a small block proportionally.


So, about 60 larger surface combattants (1500 tons an up) is just a small block proportionally? Proportionally to what, might I ask? What and how many other large combat ships are there in PLAN now or will be coming 10-20 years? 

When exactly does 'small' start for you? What fleet expansion would be needed to arrive a such a 'small' proportion?

Even if PLAN built a mix of another 60 ships in the same or larger tonnage classes, that still makes the ships I mentioned 50% of the entire fleet (obviously not counting tiny stuff like the Type 022). 120 additional ships > 33%. 180 ships > 25% , 240 ships > 20% (which implies 12 ships per year, every year for 20 years, starting 2020).



cnleio said:


> 6x type052C and 12x type052D DDGs, 25x type054A FFGs for PLAN ... building not end new DDGs will coming.


As I indicated in previous post. Point?


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## nang2

Penguin said:


> So, about 60 larger surface combattants (1500 tons an up) is just a small block proportionally? Proportionally to what, might I ask? What and how many other large combat ships are there in PLAN now or will be coming 10-20 years?
> 
> When exactly does 'small' start for you? What fleet expansion would be needed to arrive a such a 'small' proportion?
> 
> Even if PLAN built a mix of another 60 ships in the same or larger tonnage classes, that still makes the ships I mentioned 50% of the entire fleet (obviously not counting tiny stuff like the Type 022). 120 additional ships > 33%. 180 ships > 25% , 240 ships > 20% (which implies 12 ships per year, every year for 20 years, starting 2020).
> 
> 
> As I indicated in previous post. Point?


It is not 60 ships a year. You are just confusing with the total number and building rate. It is absurd to replace 12 ships a year when it is not even building with that rate.

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## lcloo

Penguin said:


> So, about 60 larger surface combattants (1500 tons an up) is just a small block proportionally? Proportionally to what, might I ask? What and how many other large combat ships are there in PLAN now or will be coming 10-20 years?



I don't think you are the type that forgo doing homework and post in haste. However, this is what PLAN has in service right this moment. This list excludes DDG and FFG that are still officially in commission but are assigned to naval academies/collages for trainng purposes.

There are 23 destroyers commissioned and in active service. Out of this 23 ships only 2 are old 051 class. This number of 23 ships excludes 4 old destroyers still in commission but are used for training purpose.

There are 51 frigates above 1,500 tonnes (in fact they are all above 2,000 tonnes), 22 ships are modern 054A, the rest are 29 older ships need to be replaced urgently as a good number of them have done service for more than 33 years.

So the total number of the DDG/FFG above 2,000 tonnes are 74 ships. And they have to be replaced each and every year as they reach their 30 years service life. Just to maintain this number of ships in future, you have to build 3 ( 74 ships/30 years = 2.47) DDG/FFG each year.

And 60 ships quoted is not a block, it is number of ships in service. And as you can see it is an understatement really. To be more accurate, 74 DDG/FFG currently are in service.

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## Penguin

nang2 said:


> It is not 60 ships a year. You are just confusing with the total number and building rate. It is absurd to replace 12 ships a year when it is not even building with that rate.


I think you failed to understand my post as I have never said or suggest 60 ships a year. And I amd NOT confusing total number an building rate. Today, 60 large surface ships is NOT a small proportion. For it to be a small proportion in 2040, there would need to be significant expansion of the fleet, unless you like retiring ships well before they are worn out (which doesn't seem to be a PLAN habit). In short, you can't really defend you claim that 60 ships is really 'only a small proportion' .



lcloo said:


> I don't think you are the type that forgo doing homework and post in haste. However, this is what PLAN has in service right this moment. This list excludes DDG and FFG that are still officially in commission but are assigned to naval academies/collages for trainng purposes.
> 
> There are 23 destroyers commissioned and in active service. Out of this 23 ships only 2 are old 051 class. This number of 23 ships excludes 4 old destroyers still in commission but are used for training purpose.
> 
> There are 51 frigates above 1,500 tonnes (in fact they are all above 2,000 tonnes), 22 ships are modern 054A, the rest are 29 older ships need to be replaced urgently as a good number of them have done service for more than 33 years.
> 
> So the total number of the DDG/FFG above 2,000 tonnes are 74 ships. And they have to be replaced each and every year as they reach their 30 years service life. Just to maintain this number of ships in future, you have to build 3 ( 74 ships/30 years = 2.47) DDG/FFG each year.
> 
> And 60 ships quoted is not a block, it is number of ships in service. And as you can see it is an understatement really. To be more accurate, 74 DDG/FFG currently are in service.



100*(22/51) = 43% > not a small proportion.
maintaining fleet numbers means a constant proportion of ships, i.e. NOT going down in the proportion of new versus old ships that you have today.

'above 2000 tons' conveniently excludes 20+ type 056, which themselves replace a huge number of smaller patrol ships.

You cannot deny though that when you stream in a large number of new ships (say >= 60) over a short span of time (say <=10 years), they will also all reach retirement age in a relatively narrow timeframe. That is, unless you retire good ships in less time than their planned service life (=capital destruction) and wear out others well beyond their planned service life, giving you an average service life of 30 years (But doing that affects fleet quality/capability. So, you would have to invest in more maintenance and modernizing those older ships a bit in order to keep them in action and relevant = incur extra lifetime and operational costs).


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## Beidou2020

PRC2025 said:


> That shouldn't be a problem if China starts spending as it should - between 3 and 4 percent of the GDP on defense. China is spending too little. All those countries you mentioned - except Japan, which has massive economic and demographic problems - spend more than China on defense regarding percentages of their countries GDP.
> 
> Second of all, China should cut the number of troops even more so. I don't see the point in having more than 800.000 or 900.000 groups, which should be highly skilled with latest weapons. The resources spent less on ground troops, means more cash for missiles, navy, air force, strategic forces, cyber warfare, etc, etc.
> 
> One must remember that the reason Japan can have still, but ageing air force and navy (except subs, which are very modern) it is because Japan barely have any ground troops at all.
> 
> The same goes for other "island" countries. China doesn't have any threat on the ground, so if China can restructure the ground troops and spend even more on navy and the air force, that can be done even with the existing budget.
> 
> Japan and Australia on the other hand, are very squized and don't have that kind of economic luxury to squeeze out some older ground troops, since they barely have any ground troops at all.
> 
> Second of all, I don't consider Australia or South Korea to be enemies and there is nothing that indicates that. Australia is was "down below" geographically, and if Australia gets too big ambitions, that will most probably irritate Indonesia a lot.
> 
> Regarding India and Vietnam - these two should also think a bit of countries that are very good friends and allies of China, such as Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos PR, Thailand and others, while at the same time, issues with India are not that huge and there are good possibilites to solve the issues between these two.
> 
> Also, do not forget. While Saudi-Arabia is pre-occupied or obsessed with Iran, I don't think that a Wahhabi-Islamic regime is going to look very favorably on a Hindu-nationalistic regime trying to dominate anything around the Gulf area. Saudi-Arabia har started to get their own naval ambitions and you can bet they definitely crash with India's in the Gulf-area.
> 
> But, I do agree with you - just in case, China should build up it's forces even more so, and I think we are seeing just the beginning of it now. So I do agree with you in general.
> 
> Anyway, one must not forget that China is going to sell 11 SSK submarines to Pakistan and Thailand (8+3) so that's a huge thing. I don't think there are any other countries that are producing SSK submarines that has total of 11 SSK on order from other countries.
> 
> Pakistan:
> http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...na-finalize-8-sub-construction-plan/73634218/
> 
> Thailand:
> http://english.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/china-military-news/2016-07/05/content_7134524.htm



China spends far too little on military considering the disputes China is involved.

$10+ trillion economy that spends only $150 billion on military is disgraceful.

5% of GDP should be spent on the military. 

Hopefully the problems in SCS, ECS, THAAD deployment will make the Chinese leadership realise they need to stop being an appeasing country and start to show some backbone.

The world takes China's timidness as a sign on weakness. China thinks being timid will stop problems, but it has the opposite effect where others challenge your weakness.

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## 帅的一匹

Beidou2020 said:


> China spends far too little on military considering the disputes China is involved.
> 
> $10+ trillion economy that spends only $150 billion on military is disgraceful.
> 
> 5% of GDP should be spent on the military.
> 
> Hopefully the problems in SCS, ECS, THAAD deployment will make the Chinese leadership realise they need to stop being an appeasing country and start to show some backbone.
> 
> The world takes China's timidness as a sign on weakness. China thinks being timid will stop problems, but it has the opposite effect where others challenge your weakness.


military spending shall rise to 4% of GDP.

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## Brainsucker

I don't agree with that. China may only spend 1.5% of their GDP for military purpose. But they also spend 2.5% of their GDP for research (raised from 2.2% of their GDP) . I think that's already okay for me. With big research spending, they can invent a lot of high tech faster. That' mean better weapons / better technology for their military in near future. I know that not all the research budget goes to military technology. But still they can help when the war erupts.

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## lcloo

Penguin said:


> I think you failed to understand my post as I have never said or suggest 60 ships a year. And I amd NOT confusing total number an building rate. Today, 60 large surface ships is NOT a small proportion. For it to be a small proportion in 2040, there would need to be significant expansion of the fleet, unless you like retiring ships well before they are worn out (which doesn't seem to be a PLAN habit). In short, you can't really defend you claim that 60 ships is really 'only a small proportion' .
> 
> 
> 
> 100*(22/51) = 43% > not a small proportion.
> maintaining fleet numbers means a constant proportion of ships, i.e. NOT going down in the proportion of new versus old ships that you have today.
> 
> 'above 2000 tons' conveniently excludes 20+ type 056, which themselves replace a huge number of smaller patrol ships.
> 
> You cannot deny though that when you stream in a large number of new ships (say >= 60) over a short span of time (say <=10 years), they will also all reach retirement age in a relatively narrow timeframe. That is, unless you retire good ships in less time than their planned service life (=capital destruction) and wear out others well beyond their planned service life, giving you an average service life of 30 years (But doing that affects fleet quality/capability. So, you would have to invest in more maintenance and modernizing those older ships a bit in order to keep them in action and relevant = incur extra lifetime and operational costs).



You under-estimate the ship building industrial power of China. Current building rate is only a peace time building rate. What to you is a large proportion will not be relevant if full potential of all major ship yards come into play.

Ship building time can be cut short by new technology and computer aided automation like laser cutting, robot welding, precision measuring and placement devices etc.

I can even visualized large and small robots crawling all over a shipyard 30 years from now.

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## Penguin

lcloo said:


> You under-estimate the ship building industrial power of China. Current building rate is only a peace time building rate. What to you is a large proportion will not be relevant if full potential of all major ship yards come into play.
> 
> Ship building time can be cut short by new technology and computer aided automation like laser cutting, robot welding, precision measuring and placement devices etc.
> 
> I can even visualized large and small robots crawling all over a shipyard 30 years from now.


I underestimate nothing. I merely point out a potential problem. That problem is not shipbuilding but the cost / funding of ship replacement over time. The proportion issue is a non-issue. You've still not answered the question I initially asked you. Goodday.


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## Mangus Ortus Novem

PRC2025 said:


> That shouldn't be a problem if China starts spending as it should - between 3 and 4 percent of the GDP on defense. China is spending too little. All those countries you mentioned - except Japan, which has massive economic and demographic problems - spend more than China on defense regarding percentages of their countries GDP.
> 
> Second of all, China should cut the number of troops even more so. I don't see the point in having more than 800.000 or 900.000 groups, which should be highly skilled with latest weapons. The resources spent less on ground troops, means more cash for missiles, navy, air force, strategic forces, cyber warfare, etc, etc.
> 
> One must remember that the reason Japan can have still, but ageing air force and navy (except subs, which are very modern) it is because Japan barely have any ground troops at all.
> 
> The same goes for other "island" countries. China doesn't have any threat on the ground, so if China can restructure the ground troops and spend even more on navy and the air force, that can be done even with the existing budget.
> 
> Japan and Australia on the other hand, are very squized and don't have that kind of economic luxury to squeeze out some older ground troops, since they barely have any ground troops at all.
> 
> Second of all, I don't consider Australia or South Korea to be enemies and there is nothing that indicates that. Australia is was "down below" geographically, and if Australia gets too big ambitions, that will most probably irritate Indonesia a lot.
> 
> Regarding India and Vietnam - these two should also think a bit of countries that are very good friends and allies of China, such as Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos PR, Thailand and others, while at the same time, issues with India are not that huge and there are good possibilites to solve the issues between these two.
> 
> Also, do not forget. While Saudi-Arabia is pre-occupied or obsessed with Iran, I don't think that a Wahhabi-Islamic regime is going to look very favorably on a Hindu-nationalistic regime trying to dominate anything around the Gulf area. Saudi-Arabia har started to get their own naval ambitions and you can bet they definitely crash with India's in the Gulf-area.
> 
> But, I do agree with you - just in case, China should build up it's forces even more so, and I think we are seeing just the beginning of it now. So I do agree with you in general.
> 
> Anyway, one must not forget that China is going to sell 11 SSK submarines to Pakistan and Thailand (8+3) so that's a huge thing. I don't think there are any other countries that are producing SSK submarines that has total of 11 SSK on order from other countries.
> 
> Pakistan:
> http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...na-finalize-8-sub-construction-plan/73634218/
> 
> Thailand:
> http://english.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/china-military-news/2016-07/05/content_7134524.htm



A very good reading of the current affairs. Extremely rational and detached view. Only thing you might be optimistic about is your southern friend. But balanced reading overall. Hats off!

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## lcloo

Penguin said:


> I underestimate nothing. I merely point out a potential problem. That problem is not shipbuilding but the cost / funding of ship replacement over time. The proportion issue is a non-issue. You've still not answered the question I initially asked you. Goodday.



Sorry, can't find what you were asking me. Please repeat them in a precise manner. Thank you.

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## grey boy 2



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## greenwood

cirr said:


> 500 million USD a ship, bloody cheap.
> 
> Build 50 for starters.



Every Chinese donate 200 yuan.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

greenwood said:


> Every Chinese donate 200 yuan.



No, need. China has too much steal and shipyard capacity. Keeps employment up and SOEs going. PLAN gets the platforms in needs. Win-win-win solutions Chinese style. 

Why waste money on big budgets...instead of wasting money China is investing in the future of her people. Education, Science and Technology, poverty reductions. 

DDG55 and ACV 002 are the ones to be really worth the wait. For now the shipyards will keep churning out these platforms at peace level of out put.

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## zheng2

ahhhh they are so sexy!

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## Penguin

lcloo said:


> Sorry, can't find what you were asking me. Please repeat them in a precise manner. Thank you.


Why would I have to accommodate your lack of astuteness? Try harder. Goodday


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## 星海军事

10th 052D was launched today

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## cnleio

星海军事 said:


> 10th 052D was launched today



China 10th new type052D DDG launch, JN-D9 type052D

2016年7月28日（又一个28日），上午10时，江南造船厂建造的最新一艘052D型驱逐舰桅杆高挂满旗，舰艏挂绣球，被缓缓推出建造厂房，并举行下水仪式。这是江南造船厂建造的第9艘，也是总数第10艘下水的052D型驱逐舰。

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## cnleio

DaLian Shipyard's 2nd type052D will launch




















PLAN 4th

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## 星海军事

11th 052D, PLANS Chengdu (DDG-120), was launched today

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## cnleio

星海军事 said:


> 11th 052D, PLANS Chengdu (DDG-120), was launched today


Well ... so fast, hope to build another dozen of type052D.

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## xuxu1457

11th 052D, 2nd 052D built by Dalian shipyard, PLANS Chengdu (DDG-120), was launched today

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## Zarvan

The Dalian Shipbuilding Industry Company launched its second Luyang III-class (Type 052D) destroyer on 3 August. Source: Via sina.com
The Dalian Shipbuilding Industry Company (DSIC) launched its second Luyang III-class (Type 052D) destroyer on 3 August. The first vessel of its type to be built in Dalian is currently being fitted out and a third one is on the slipway.

Jiangnan Changxingdao, the principal construction yard for the Type 052D, launched its ninth such vessel on 28 July.

The continuing production of the Type 052D indicates the class will be larger than previously anticipated.

A recent CNA report on China's maritime power highlighted that the country already has more of these ships than Japan has Aegis destroyers.




To read the full article, Client Login
(98 of 115 words)

http://www.janes.com/article/62834/dsic-launches-second-type-052d-destroyer

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## xunzi

Please post the full article!


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## Deino

... and not always a new thread ! We have one esp. for the Type 052D


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## cnleio

DaLian's type052D building

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## cnleio

2x new building in DaLian

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

China is producing these vessles as if they come out of the oven...faster and faster.

Just brilliant. And this is peaceitme production rate!

How many 052 are in the pipeline?

When will we see the making of 055?

Both of these ships are needed in great numbers. But now its time for the super cruiser 055!!!

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## T-Rex

Sinopakfriend said:


> China is producing these vessles as if they come out of the oven...faster and faster.
> 
> Just brilliant. And this is peaceitme production rate!
> 
> How many 052 are in the pipeline?
> 
> When will we see the making of 055?
> 
> Both of these ships are needed in great numbers. But now its time for the super cruiser 055!!!


*
I think at the moment China is producing them on an urgent basis. *

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## ChineseTiger1986

The US TV show claims that the Type 052D is a ripoff of the Arleigh Burke class.

How can an AESA Aegis being a ripoff of a PESA Aegis?

@Economic superpower @Beast

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## Brainsucker

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The US TV show claims that the Type 052D is a ripoff of the Arleigh Burke class.
> 
> How can an AESA Aegis being a ripoff of a PESA Aegis?
> 
> @Economic superpower @Beast
> 
> View attachment 330049
> 
> 
> View attachment 330050
> 
> 
> View attachment 330044
> 
> 
> View attachment 330045



I don't like "The Last Ship" TV show, and I'm glad because of it. At least, I don't have to waste my time for that. 
But wait, that TV-show come to China?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Brainsucker said:


> I don't like "The Last Ship" TV show, and I'm glad because of it. At least, I don't have to waste my time for that.
> But wait, that TV-show come to China?



Not banned, but that TV Show is about as realistic as the Independence Day 2.

Hopefully they won't feature the Type 055 in the Season 4, they should go after France.

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## yantong1980

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The US TV show claims that the Type 052D is a ripoff of the Arleigh Burke class.
> 
> How can an AESA Aegis being a ripoff of a PESA Aegis?
> 
> @Economic superpower @Beast
> 
> 
> View attachment 330049
> 
> 
> View attachment 330050
> 
> 
> View attachment 330044
> 
> 
> View attachment 330045



See the guy at center and the last pic, he seem not sure about the 'claim' ha, ha, ha

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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The US TV show claims that the Type 052D is a ripoff of the Arleigh Burke class.
> 
> How can an AESA Aegis being a ripoff of a PESA Aegis?
> 
> @Economic superpower @Beast
> 
> 
> View attachment 330049
> 
> 
> View attachment 330050
> 
> 
> View attachment 330044
> 
> 
> View attachment 330045


 The Last Ship TV-show.

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## grey boy 2

Updates

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## grey boy 2

The 7th 052D DDG

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Amazing ships

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## ChineseTiger1986

grey boy 2 said:


> The 7th 052D DDG



Hopefully D6 and D7 can be deployed within this year, but it seems unlikely as these two ships will still pass many tests and training before to be combat ready.

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## UKBengali

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Hopefully D6 and D7 can be deployed within this year, but it seems unlikely as these two ships will still pass many tests and training before to be combat ready.



The trial period should speed up on later ships as experience is built up with earlier ships.

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## ChineseTiger1986

UKBengali said:


> The trial period should speed up on later ships as experience is built up with earlier ships.



China follows the different procedure from the US. All Chinese warships need to pass the combat ready test before the deployment, while the US uses the opposite method.

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## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China follows the different procedure from the US. All Chinese warships need to pass the combat ready test before the deployment, while the US uses the opposite method.


That is wrong. We need the numbers now.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> That is wrong. We need the numbers now.



Yep, D7 is fully completed right now, and why it cannot be deployed within this year?

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## hk299792458

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, D7 is fully completed right now, and why it cannot be deployed within this year?



According to my statistics model, CX#07 (what you called D7) should be commissionned around Septembre 2017.

The raison behind is simple : Completed doesn't mean tested, tested doesn't mean trained, trained doesn't mean they are ready to accept the boat.

Take an example of Type 052C - 10 months after being launched the propulsion, navigation and communication tests begin and these will last for 8 months. 

Once finished those stuff finished they start the first phase of combat systems tests (especially ASW capacities) for 5 months, followed by 6 months of main weapon systems tests.

And from official delivery to commissioning ceremony, you need to count 1 month more.

That's the reason why the boat "seems to be" ready for you but is is "still" not deployed. Too quick is not "科学", as what you guys say, right ?

The next one to be commissionned should be 117 Xining by Novembre this year.

Henri K.

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## 星海军事

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, D7 is fully completed right now, and why it cannot be deployed within this year?



A complete sea trial of 052D takes over a year

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## grey boy 2

updates

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## grey boy 2

Updates, coming along just fine, 3 brothers?

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## grey boy 2



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## Beast

Seems like Type052D destroyer number peak at 13 build. Same as what I have estimated. 

PLAN shall concentrate on building more Type055.

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## sheik

Beast said:


> Seems like Type052D destroyer number peak at 13 build. Same as what I have estimated.
> 
> PLAN shall concentrate on building more Type055.



why 13? Shouldn't it be an even number?


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## Beast

sheik said:


> why 13? Shouldn't it be an even number?


I guess they stop making more after 055 materialise and goes for production.


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## grey boy 2

Pack with 052D DDG in Changxing Island满当当的052D舰

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## GS Zhou

grey boy 2 said:


> Pack with 052D DDG in Changxing Island满当当的052D舰


FOUR 052D destroyers be built simultaneously by one shipyard, plus the 055 destroyers be built there. That's a crazy speed that NO other country can match!

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## Beast

GS Zhou said:


> FOUR 052D destroyers be built simultaneously by one shipyard, plus the 055 destroyers be built there. That's a crazy speed that NO other country can match!


With American declining and making more irrational foreign policy decision. China need to commission these destroyers fast and prepare for the worst.

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## grey boy 2

The newest 052D DDG hull no:117 for North Sea fleet 最新一艘052D驱逐舰已经刷上舷号117，应是西宁舰，将成为中国海军北海舰队首艘052D级驱逐舰。

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## Beast

Penant number up. Very close to commission.

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## grey boy 2

Chinese break neck speed: "6 052D DDG being constructed in one shipyard" (围观6艘52D一起造的江南厂，感受中国速度！)

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## Beast

055 building speed will be even faster. We have already seen modules for 4 055 even only one full hull is building in the dry dock. It will be the large warship class satisfying PLAN need.

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## hk299792458

Beast said:


> 055 building speed will be even faster. We have already seen modules for 4 055 even only one full hull is building in the dry dock. It will be the large warship class satisfying PLAN need.



Two, not four.

Henri K.


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## ChineseTiger1986

hk299792458 said:


> Two, not four.
> 
> Henri K.



The construction of the third one has also been started, and soon will be the fourth one.

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## hk299792458

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The construction of the third one has also been started, and soon will be the fourth one.



Source ?

Henri K.


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## ChineseTiger1986

hk299792458 said:


> Source ?
> 
> Henri K.



I think many Chinese military forum has mentioned about it, and we can just wait and see the third coming hull.


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## hk299792458

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think many Chinese military forum has mentioned about it, and we can just wait and see the third coming hull.



I follow everyday the major forums (CD, FY, HH), and no one talk about the 3rd and the 4th one in Changxing Jiangnan.

Henri K.

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## ChineseTiger1986

hk299792458 said:


> I follow everyday the major forums (CD, FY, HH), and no one talk about the 3rd and the 4th one in Changxing Jiangnan.
> 
> Henri K.



I think it might be coming from Meyet, since I am an anonymous reader in that forum.


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## english_man

Well we have all seen the images from JN shipyard, and we can clearly see there are 2 055's under construction, but there is no proof yet of a 3rd or 4th vessel. Though that doesn't mean to say that modules are not being built for these elsewhere at the present time. Anyway, the Chinese are building a lot of warships at the moment, and they must be at stretching point to find enough qualified engineers and construction workers to work on these existing projects alone.

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## nang2

english_man said:


> Well we have all seen the images from JN shipyard, and we can clearly see there are 2 055's under construction, but there is no proof yet of a 3rd or 4th vessel. Though that doesn't mean to say that modules are not being built for these elsewhere at the present time. Anyway, the Chinese are building a lot of warships at the moment, and they must be at stretching point to find enough qualified engineers and construction workers to work on these existing projects alone.


Shipping industry is in recession. That lowers ship orders and saves enough engineers for naval orders.

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## 帅的一匹

The Han empire is coming back! We must build a strongest China to salute our gloried history. West shall never forget China was an empire. Every blood they own us will pay back.

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## hk299792458

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think it might be coming from Meyet, since I am an anonymous reader in that forum.



Meyet... 

Henri K.


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## ChineseTiger1986

hk299792458 said:


> Meyet...
> 
> Henri K.



Meyet is also professional, whether you like them or not.

They mostly bring the analysis instead of leaking the pics. BTW, the first leaked pic of the DF-26 was coming from them.

Also keep in mind I am looking forward the bet of the EMALS vs steam catapult. And I am not sure that POP3 will easily win the contest this time, since the PLAN is in the same boat with Meyet by rooting for the EMALS.

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## Shotgunner51

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> bet of the EMALS



I have also bet some, build a long position in XEMC 600416 since I read news about them working with 712 on IEPS last year. Sooner or later, EMALS is the way to go.

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## 帅的一匹

Shotgunner51 said:


> I have also bet some, build a long position in XEMC 600416 since I read news about them working with 712 on IEPS last year. Sooner or later, EMALS is the way to go.


General Yin Zhuo said there won't be necessary to have a nuclear powered carrier to mount EMALS.

if you wanna some confirmation of sources, you must watch 今日关注 every day.

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## Bussard Ramjet

wanglaokan said:


> The Han empire is coming back! We must build a strongest China to salute our gloried history. West shall never forget China was an empire. Every blood they own us will pay back.



Why need to use the word Empire? 

Anyways, at its height China, commanded around 25% of the world's population, land far in excess to today's China, and almost a third of global economy.


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## samsara

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Why need to use the word Empire?
> 
> Anyways, at its height China, commanded around 25% of the world's population, land far in excess to today's China, and almost a third of global economy.


*Share of world GDP throughout history (based on Angus Maddison's works)*
https://infogr.am/Share-of-world-GDP-throughout-history

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## grey boy 2

New 052 DDG spotted during sea trail (又一条新052D要服役了) source 浩汉防务

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## grey boy 2

The 14th 052D DDG

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## grey boy 2

052D DDG "117"

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## grey boy 2

052D DDG's type 1130 CIWS live firing (1130近防炮怒射)

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## grey boy 2



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## grey boy 2



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## cnleio

China 10th new type052D DDG launch in JN shipyard

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## grey boy 2

cnleio said:


> China 10th new type052D DDG launch in JN shipyard
> 
> View attachment 363441

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## grey boy 2

转浩汉：第12艘052D下水? guys, is this the 10th or 12th 052D?

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## grey boy 2

052D DDG"118" sea trail (正在海试的052D118舰)

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## 星海军事

grey boy 2 said:


> 转浩汉：第12艘052D下水? guys, is this the 10th or 12th 052D?


The 10th of JN, 12th in total.

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## english_man

星海军事 said:


> The 10th of JN, 12th in total.



Apparently, the class size has grown to 14 vessels, according to some sources!

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## cirr

english_man said:


> Apparently, the class size has grown to 13 vessels, according to some sources!



12 launched so far, quite a few more in various stages of construction.

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## waja2000

possible reach 24 unit in final？ hear will be have new version 052E with IEP ?


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## english_man

waja2000 said:


> possible reach 24 unit in final？ hear will be have new version 052E with IEP ?



There were rumours a year or so ago, that the 052D class could end up at 18 vessels. Whether there will be an updated class 052E with improvements, who knows?...........but i think the PLAN will be concentrating its future Destroyer fleet on the size of the 055 class.

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## IblinI

english_man said:


> There were rumours a year or so ago, that the 052D class could end up at 18 vessels. Whether there will be an updated class 052E with improvements, who knows?...........but i think the PLAN will be concentrating its future Destroyer fleet on the size of the 055 class.


New source from creditable person confirm that 052E exists ,enhanced with technology used on 055.

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## english_man

YuChen said:


> New source from creditable person confirm that 052E exists ,enhanced with technology used on 055.



If that is true..........it does seem a little odd that the Chinese Navy would require an 052E and a 055, as they would be similar ships, except that the 055 would be a little larger, and with a higher missile load. What are members here, views on this?

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## IblinI

english_man said:


> If that is true..........it does seem a little odd that the Chinese Navy would require an 052E and a 055, as they would be similar ships, except that the 055 would be a little larger, and with a higher missile load. What are members here, views on this?


Each class has it's own duty.

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## CAPRICORN-88

english_man said:


> If that is true..........it does seem a little odd that the Chinese Navy would require an 052E and a 055, as they would be similar ships, except that the 055 would be a little larger, and with a higher missile load. What are members here, views on this?



 IMO the 052 warship has proven itself to be a very successful warship design and a very reliable. PLAN must be very satisfied with it in order for them to order so many. 

Unlike the bigger and more sophiscated 055 cruiser, the 052 is cheaper and can be constructed at a faster pace. 

So its evolution into a more advanced EW 052E appears to be a very prudent decision and choice that is if it is really true.

But I won't be surprised.

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## grey boy 2

Dalian D-1

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## grey boy 2

The distribution of the 18 052D DDG (credits to 好兵帅克)




从上表可以看出，14艘052D驱逐舰的归属已经明确，如果最终是18艘052D驱逐舰，那么余下4艘的去向也大概可以推断出来。
驱1支：117、118、119、120
驱2支：176、177、178、179
驱6支：154、155、156、157
驱9支：172、173、174、175

还有2艘推断有三种可能：
一是驱1支二是给驱6支三是给驱2支，本人认为给驱6支的可能性最大，毕竟驱6支是TG海军第一支驱逐（护卫）舰部队，理应受到关照。

18艘052D驱逐舰全部服役后以上4个驱逐舰支队编成的变化（不包括055大驱和护卫舰）：
驱1支：117、118、119、120、150、151
驱2支：176、177、178、179、152、153
驱6支：154、155、156、157、158、159
驱9支：170、171、172、173、174、175

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## cnleio

DDG-175 joint PLAN







Type052D building in DaLian

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## grey boy 2

Dalian D1 in good progress

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## grey boy 2

Dalian D-2 getting closer to D1 progression (D1离开了原舾装位，让出位置，给了D2，多日不见，没想到D2的完成度已非常接近D1)

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## grey boy 2

VLS reload 装填首见

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## grey boy 2

Dalian D1, D2 052 DDG, 11 has been launched so far

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## cnleio

3x type052D and 1x type055 DDGs building together in DaLian shipyard

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## monitor

5th Type 052D destroyer Xining (117) is commissioned into the North Sea Fleet today at Qingdao naval port.

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## cnleio

China 5th new type052D, DDG-117 "Xi Ning" join PLAN in QingDao

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## cnleio

PLAN 5th type052D, DDG-117 "Xi Ning"

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## grey boy 2



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## samsara

CCTV 4 中文国际 2017-01-23 "Focus Today" 《今日关注》:

Check this segment at *21:44* about the newly commissioned 052D DDG.






_"Strongest 052D is on service in new year. N. Sea Fleet accepts *the First home-made Aegis ship*. 052D ship is the latest missile destroyer designed and built by China independently.
Foreign media: With explosive development, PLA navy *will own 500 warships in 2030*."_

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## terranMarine

A report back from 2015, China will own 415 warships by 2030 and now 500? 

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...-aircraft-carrier-destroyer-frigate/27725003/

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## 帅的一匹

terranMarine said:


> A report back from 2015, China will own 415 warships by 2030 and now 500?
> 
> http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...-aircraft-carrier-destroyer-frigate/27725003/


How many ships IN gonna have in year 2030?

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## terranMarine

wanglaokan said:


> How many ships IN gonna have in year 2030?


American analysts don't seem to make predictions on how many warships India may have, the only links i can find are

http://defenceupdate.in/india-will-3rd-powerful-navy-world-2030/
http://aermech.in/top-10-most-advanced-upcoming-projectsfutureindian-navy/
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-5-most-powerful-navies-2030-16723

If India is gonna spend a lot on building up her Navy by 2030 many believe Japan can kiss goodbye to her ranking.

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## 帅的一匹

terranMarine said:


> American analysts don't seem to make predictions on how many warships India may have, the only links i can find are
> 
> http://defenceupdate.in/india-will-3rd-powerful-navy-world-2030/
> http://aermech.in/top-10-most-advanced-upcoming-projectsfutureindian-navy/
> http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-5-most-powerful-navies-2030-16723
> 
> If India is gonna spend a lot on building up her Navy by 2030 many believe Japan can kiss goodbye to her ranking.


Unless India can localize the production of navy ships, it can't be included as real meaning strong navy in the world. Japan is still far head India. The strongest navy in the world ranking 2030:
1. China/USA
2. Europe 
3. Russia
4. Japan
5. India

India even still can't produce a torpedo for its French squid class subs, make it the only sub doesn't have torpedo to use in this planet. I mean India doesn't have brain with them when they are making decision and do things. They black list Augusta and consequently the white head. If we put a rank of joking of global navy, IN will top it. India is very far away from a navy power, how can we call it a strong navy even can't produce a torpedo? Technically Actually India is in the class with Vietnam and Malaysia, the only difference is India is much richer.

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## terranMarine

wanglaokan said:


> Unless India can localize the production of navy ships, it can't be included as real meaning strong navy in the world. Japan is still far head India. The strongest navy in the world ranking 2030:
> 1. China/USA
> 2. Europe
> 3. Russia
> 4. Japan
> 5. India



Agree, I don't think India can displace Japanese Navy so easily with a mere 13 years time span. American Naval institutes have been busy publishing PLAN development for the past couple of years but you don't see them publishing hundreds of pages of analysis on the Indian Navy. There's only one explanation for that.

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## 帅的一匹

terranMarine said:


> Agree, I don't think India can displace Japanese Navy so easily with a mere 13 years time span. American Naval institutes have been busy publishing PLAN development for the past couple of years but you don't see them publishing hundreds of pages of analysis on the Indian Navy. There's only one explanation for that.


I can rank you ahead of Japan, because India has SSN and Japan doesn't.

When we judge the real capacity and power of a navy, we shall look at the production ability, the endurance it has to massively manufacture battle ship in war time. India as of now, can't produce domestic gas turbine, main gun, ship born VLS, long range ship born detection and fire control radar, ship born helicopters, and even the bullet proof jacket their marine dress. The power of India navy is only on paper, whether it can stand a test in a long lasting full scale war is questionable.

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## grey boy 2

New 052D DDG

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## cnleio

grey boy 2 said:


> New 052D DDG


Very nice ... China type052D DDG building as fast as we can.




South China Sea Fleet type052D training

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## english_man

wanglaokan said:


> How many ships IN gonna have in year 2030?



Well, if the Indians want a proper Navy, then they need to learn how to speed up the build of their warships.
I mean looking at the construction times, it took the Indians over 10 years just to build a Destroyer!

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## HannibalBarca

english_man said:


> Well, if the Indians want a proper Navy, then they need to learn how to speed up the build of their warships.
> I mean looking at the construction times, it took the Indians over 10 years just to build a Destroyer!


Answer his question... 
Sir @wanglaokan Indian will get 2 to 3 more ships by then  at this rate...

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## nang2

Mineichi1940 said:


> *1.cina/?USA?*
> 
> So funny.
> china only have Very few and original Nuclear submarine
> Only two Type 093 class Nuclear submarines are in service
> In 2009, USN ONI listed the Type 093 as being noisier than Project 671RTM (NATO reporting name Victor III) which entered service in 1979
> 
> USA：*36* X Los Angeles（SSN） 、*3* x Seawolf class（SSN）、*13 *x Virginia Class（SSN）、*4 *x Ohio Class（SSGN）、*14* x Ohio Class（SSBN）
> 
> Russia：*1* X пр.885(SSN)、*4*xпр.671（SSN）、*11* x пр.971(SSN)、*4* x пр.945(SSN)、*8 *x пр.949(SSGN)、*3*xпр.955(SSBN)、9xпр.667(SSBN)、*1*xпр.09796（SSNS）、*1*xпр.09787（SSNS）、*3*xпр.1851（SSNS）、*3*xпр.1910（SSNS）、*1*xпр.10831（SSNS）、*1*xпр.20120（SSNS）
> 
> China：*3* X Type 093（SSN） 、*2* X Type 093（SSN）、*4* X Type 094（SSBN）
> 
> 
> Your aircraft carrier purchased from the Ukraine and it‘s not in service
> Your aircraft Aircraft carrier purchased from the Ukraine too
> ··········Not to mention J-10、J-11、J-20、J-15 used Russian's AL-31F
> 052C and 052D used Ukrainian gas turbine、Russian radar
> Bought a lot of Russian warships,such as Kilo、Sovremenny、Pomornik、Foxtrot
> Still using the Soviet aircraft,such as Tu-16、Mig-21
> 
> Then you told us China has the world's strongests navy Like the US?


By 2030, so be patient. And it is just a prediction, so take it with some soy sauce.


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## Salty_Waters

Mineichi1940 said:


> *1.cina/?USA?*
> 
> So funny.
> china only have Very few and original Nuclear submarine
> Only two Type 093 class Nuclear submarines are in service
> In 2009, USN ONI listed the Type 093 as being noisier than Project 671RTM (NATO reporting name Victor III) which entered service in 1979
> 
> USA：*36* X Los Angeles（SSN） 、*3* x Seawolf class（SSN）、*13 *x Virginia Class（SSN）、*4 *x Ohio Class（SSGN）、*14* x Ohio Class（SSBN）
> 
> Russia：*1* X пр.885(SSN)、*4*xпр.671（SSN）、*11* x пр.971(SSN)、*4* x пр.945(SSN)、*8 *x пр.949(SSGN)、*3*xпр.955(SSBN)、9xпр.667(SSBN)、*1*xпр.09796（SSNS）、*1*xпр.09787（SSNS）、*3*xпр.1851（SSNS）、*3*xпр.1910（SSNS）、*1*xпр.10831（SSNS）、*1*xпр.20120（SSNS）
> 
> China：*3* X Type 093（SSN） 、*2* X Type 093（SSN）、*4* X Type 094（SSBN）
> 
> 
> Your aircraft carrier purchased from the Ukraine and it‘s not in service
> Your aircraft Aircraft carrier purchased from the Ukraine too
> ··········Not to mention J-10、J-11、J-20、J-15 used Russian's AL-31F
> 052C and 052D used Ukrainian gas turbine、Russian radar
> Bought a lot of Russian warships,such as Kilo、Sovremenny、Pomornik、Foxtrot
> Still using the Soviet aircraft,such as Tu-16、Mig-21
> 
> Then you told us China navy has the world's strongests navy Like the US?
> 
> To 2030 years,US Will have more than 10 aircraft carriers and more than 40 SSNs、
> Russian Will have 2 aircraft carriers and more than 40 SSNs and SSGNs
> china wil have less than 3 aircraft carriers and less than 15 SSNs
> 
> The result is obvious



Well, on China's self sufficiency in key technologies I would agree with you. But seriously? Russia will have 2 Aircraft carriers by 2030? What are you dreaming of? If Russia is lucky enough, it will be ready with the nakimov modernization by 2025. There is no way they will build two new carriers, there will be no way that Kuznetzov will be operational in a satisfying way.

Russia was dependent on ukraine gas turbines as well, and they don't have reliable gas turbines rite now for their grigorovich frigates.

Russia has delays with key technologies as well, no real working AIP on subs for example.

So, I understand a kind of doubtful questioning all that heroic news from super duper China fanboy media, but to compare it with Russia, is a joke in itself. Because in technological terms, China has or is overtaking Russia right now.

And your prediction for Chinese CVs. If they finished Shandong, and have it operational by 2022, they will have two more operational than Russia, because Kuznetzov will be decommissioned as a piece of rusty metal. Well and the third one will be ready by 2030, that is something we all have to take serious.

so give it an realistic view, or get in line with those retarded China fanboys

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## Akasa

Mineichi1940 said:


> *1.cina/?USA?*
> 
> So funny.
> china only have Very few and original Nuclear submarine
> Only two Type 093 class Nuclear submarines are in service
> In 2009, USN ONI listed the Type 093 as being noisier than Project 671RTM (NATO reporting name Victor III) which entered service in 1979
> 
> USA：*36* X Los Angeles（SSN） 、*3* x Seawolf class（SSN）、*13 *x Virginia Class（SSN）、*4 *x Ohio Class（SSGN）、*14* x Ohio Class（SSBN）
> 
> Russia：*1* X пр.885(SSN)、*4*xпр.671（SSN）、*11* x пр.971(SSN)、*4* x пр.945(SSN)、*8 *x пр.949(SSGN)、*3*xпр.955(SSBN)、9xпр.667(SSBN)、*1*xпр.09796（SSNS）、*1*xпр.09787（SSNS）、*3*xпр.1851（SSNS）、*3*xпр.1910（SSNS）、*1*xпр.10831（SSNS）、*1*xпр.20120（SSNS）
> 
> China：*3* X Type 093（SSN） 、*2* X Type 093（SSN）、*4* X Type 094（SSBN）
> 
> 
> Your aircraft carrier purchased from the Ukraine and it‘s not in service
> Your aircraft Aircraft carrier purchased from the Ukraine too
> ··········Not to mention J-10、J-11、J-20、J-15 used Russian's AL-31F
> 052C and 052D used Ukrainian gas turbine、Russian radar
> Bought a lot of Russian warships,such as Kilo、Sovremenny、Pomornik、Foxtrot
> Still using the Soviet aircraft,such as Tu-16、Mig-21
> 
> Then you told us China navy has the world's strongests navy Like the US?
> 
> To 2030 years,US Will have more than 10 aircraft carriers and more than 40 SSNs、
> Russian Will have 2 aircraft carriers and more than 40 SSNs and SSGNs
> china wil have less than 3 aircraft carriers and less than 15 SSNs
> 
> The result is obvious



The Type 052D/C do not use Russian radars.


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## cnleio



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## cnleio

DaLian shipyard, it said the 9th new type052D DDG in China

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## Deino

cnleio said:


> DaLian shipyard, it said the 9th new type052D DDG in China
> 
> View attachment 382035




is already known, what pennant number it will get ?


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## monitor

052E？

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## lcloo

Looks like new version of 052D with smaller AESA radar, and 12 X 8 cells VLS. Also new gun plus missiles CIWS. Probably aimed for export.

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## cnleio

monitor said:


> 052E？


FFG or Monkey version Type052D ... the size more like a FFG.

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## lcloo

130mm gun of 052D firing.

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## cnleio



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## samsara

PLA Navy 903 Supply Ship "Luoma Lake" carried out offshore replenishment for Type-052C destroyer "Haikou" and Type-052D destroyer "Changsha".

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/845149160810594304

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## monitor

cnleio said:


> FFG or Monkey version Type052D ... the size more like a FFG.





lcloo said:


> Looks like new version of 052D with smaller AESA radar, and 12 X 8 cells VLS. Also new gun plus missiles CIWS. Probably aimed for export.



Do you think China unwilling to export the Type52D except export version?


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## IblinI

monitor said:


> Do you think China unwilling to export the Type52D except export version?


What ever may serve the customer, it is just a model, everything is negotiable.


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## gslv mk3

wanglaokan said:


> Unless India can localize the production of navy ships, it can't be included as real meaning strong navy in the world.



Are you joking or something ?



wanglaokan said:


> India as of now, can't produce domestic gas turbine



already underway.



wanglaokan said:


> main gun



Made by BHEL Bhopal.



wanglaokan said:


> ship born VLS



Already made for Brahmos & Barak 8



wanglaokan said:


> long range ship born detection and fire control radar



Despite this ?



wanglaokan said:


> ship born helicopters



Dhruv



wanglaokan said:


> even the bullet proof jacket their marine dress.



No can't make them, but we do export them- http://www.mku.com/en/index



wanglaokan said:


> how can we call it a strong navy even can't produce a torpedo?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varunastra_(torpedo)

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## 帅的一匹

gslv mk3 said:


> Are you joking or something ?
> 
> 
> 
> already underway.
> 
> 
> 
> Made by BHEL Bhopal.
> 
> 
> 
> Already made for Brahmos & Barak 8
> 
> 
> 
> Despite this ?
> 
> 
> 
> Dhruv
> 
> 
> 
> No can't make them, but we do export them- http://www.mku.com/en/index
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varunastra_(torpedo)


All your saying is 'maybe' and 'underway'. The Kolkota class is severely restricted by its scaring cost, can't compared with type 052D.

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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> All your saying is 'maybe' and 'underway'. The Kolkota class is severely restricted by its scaring cost, can't compared with type 052D.


His underway means 20years later. So in short period of few years. India don't have anything comparable.

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## samsara

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/846925096887332864Seeing for the first time from *this angle* the Type 052D DDG

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## cnleio

Type052D DDGs to launch in DaLian shipyard












==========================================================

2x to launch in JiangNan Shipyard

Type052D DDG-155 "NanJing"






Type052D DDG-118 "Urumchi"

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> Type052D DDGs to launch in DaLian shipyard
> 
> View attachment 388748
> View attachment 388749
> View attachment 388750
> 
> 
> 
> ==========================================================
> 
> 2x to launch in JiangNan Shipyard
> 
> Type052D DDG-155 "NanJing"
> View attachment 388760
> 
> 
> 
> Type052D DDG-118 "Urumchi"
> View attachment 388761



Hope both can commission in short time.


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## cnleio

2012 - 2017 JiangNan and DaLian shipyards, total 14x type052D DDGs building (built) in both shipyards.

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## Bussard Ramjet

cnleio said:


> 2012 - 2017 JiangNan and DaLian shipyards, total 14x type052D DDGs building (built) in both shipyards.
> 
> 
> View attachment 388988
> View attachment 388989




But someone told me that Type 052D will stop at 12 units. 

So does that mean that source is wrong?


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## english_man

Bussard Ramjet said:


> But someone told me that Type 052D will stop at 12 units.
> 
> So does that mean that source is wrong?



Well, people did initially predict the class would max out at 12 ships, but as of this moment there are 14 052D's...........11 built at JN shipyard, and 3 at Dalian.

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## shadows888

Bussard Ramjet said:


> But someone told me that Type 052D will stop at 12 units.
> 
> So does that mean that source is wrong?



do you believe everything you read on the internet?

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## grey boy 2



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## cnleio

grey boy 2 said:


>



One day we can see PLAN twenty type052C/D DDGs sailing together on the sea ... *2x Ten-Ten Air-Defense Fleet must be fine spectacle ! 







*

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## terranMarine

cnleio said:


> One day we can see PLAN twenty type052C/D DDGs sailing together on the sea ... *2x Ten-Ten Air-Defense Fleet must be fine spectacle !
> 
> View attachment 389320
> View attachment 389321
> *



A battle formation including 054 and 055 is a must

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> One day we can see PLAN twenty type052C/D DDGs sailing together on the sea ... *2x Ten-Ten Air-Defense Fleet must be fine spectacle !
> 
> View attachment 389320
> View attachment 389321
> *


I don't think PLAN will build Type052D more than 14. They are banking future on Type055 cruiser. It will be the warship surplass AB destroyer on all aspect.

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## cnleio

Beast said:


> I don't think PLAN will build Type052D more than 14. They are banking future on Type055 cruiser. It will be the warship surplass AB destroyer on all aspect.


Type055 less, Type052D more ...

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> Type055 less, Type052D more ...


More Type 055, less Type 052D. Look at the speed 055 are building with few assemble at the same time show it will be build in large number.

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## 帅的一匹

Beast said:


> More Type 055, less Type 052D. Look at the speed 055 are building with few assemble at the same time show it will be build in large number.


Maybe over 20 ?


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## 帅的一匹

Beast said:


> I don't think PLAN will build Type052D more than 14. They are banking future on Type055 cruiser. It will be the warship surplass AB destroyer on all aspect.


We shall build 30 units 052D, 055 is too expensive to operate. I think 10 units 055 will be enough.


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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> We shall build 30 units 052D, 055 is too expensive to operate. I think 10 units 055 will be enough.


Expensive? 18 Type055 is still cheaper and better than 30 Type052D destroyer.

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## clibra

cnleio said:


> Type055 less, Type052D more ...



WRONG ! Type055 less, Type052*E *and 055A more. 



Beast said:


> Expensive? 18 Type055 is still cheaper and better than 30 Type052D destroyer.



I'd rather the 055 is similar to 052B(168/169), and move forward to 055A as soon as possible.

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## 帅的一匹

用舰载陆攻导弹可以从台湾岛东侧进行定点清除。让台独无处躲藏！哈哈哈哈哈哈哈

造个30艘，绝对爽歪歪

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## 帅的一匹

我大概算一下。我们海军现役的的和在建的排水量超过4000吨的驱护舰总数已经超过60艘！加上055和056已经过百了！什么水平？

加上潜艇部队，稳稳地超过200艘啊！

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## GS Zhou

wanglaokan said:


> 我大概算一下。我们海军现役的的和在建的排水量超过4000吨的驱护舰总数已经超过60艘！加上055和056已经过百了！什么水平？
> 
> 加上潜艇部队，稳稳地超过200艘啊！


FAR FROM ENOUGH!!

对美六成是最低目标！

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## english_man

wanglaokan said:


> 我大概算一下。我们海军现役的的和在建的排水量超过4000吨的驱护舰总数已经超过60艘！加上055和056已经过百了！什么水平？
> 
> 加上潜艇部队，稳稳地超过200艘啊！



Please could you translate for us non-Chinese speakers. Thanks.


----------



## cnleio

english_man said:


> Please could you translate for us non-Chinese speakers. Thanks.



1. Just now China Navy serving & building(in shipyard) >4,000 ton warships like FFG、DDG、LPD、A.C etc, total already reach 60+.

2. These >4,000 ton warships(FFG、DDG、LPD etc) + type055 DDG + type056 corvette (already 30+ built), ships can reach 100+.

3. PLAN surface-ship fleet and PLAN subs fleet under water, total combat ships can reach 150+ for China Navy.


well ... below is a list of PLAN *28x type54A FFGs*














Chinese continue building more warships ... we know those Type052D and Type055 DDGs will building more, after 30x type054A FFGs building finished then will start to build type054B FFG with small AESA, Type00x Aircraft Carriers and Type075 LHD start building the number will add, type039x AIP subs continue building and China new nuclear subs will produce more. So in 202x year PLAN will have 200+ combat ships on sea.

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## Shotgunner51

GS Zhou said:


> FAR FROM ENOUGH!!
> 对美六成是最低目标！


Yes I agree, but like all other military branches the navy is also constrained by budget, Beijing has to balance the books to prevent financial risks (which could more damaging than nukes) from accumulating, so no choice my friend. Perhaps the best way is to focus on technological breakthrough, maintains only a modest scale of active duty, but ensure adequate reserves in industrial capacity for war-time scale up.

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## Abdul Mannan Tariq

what is the estimated cost of Type 52d and type 55 destroyers in USD?


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## IblinI

Abdul Mannan Tariq said:


> what is the estimated cost of Type 52d and type 55 destroyers in USD?


50 mils and 1 billion.


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## clibra

Abdul Mannan Tariq said:


> what is the estimated cost of Type 52d and type 55 destroyers in USD?


0.6 billion, 0.9 billion

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## grey boy 2

Dalian D-1 "052 DDG" got back from sea trial 大连D1试航归来

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## grey boy 2

Update:inside the 052D DDG VLS :the *YJ-18* (Chinese: 鹰击-18; pinyin: yingji-18; literally: "eagle strike 18", NATO designation *CH-SS-NX-13*[4]) is a Chinese family of anti-ship and land attack cruise missiles.[1]
*HQ-9B *medium to long range active radar homing surface-to-air missile

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## Akasa

grey boy 2 said:


> Update:inside the 052D DDG VLS :the *YJ-18* (Chinese: 鹰击-18; pinyin: yingji-18; literally: "eagle strike 18", NATO designation *CH-SS-NX-13*[4]) is a Chinese family of anti-ship and land attack cruise missiles.[1]
> *HQ-9B *medium to long range active radar homing surface-to-air missile



There have been rumors that the land-attack variant of the YJ-18 actually has a range of 1400-1500 km instead of the accepted 540 km. Any more info on this rumor?

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## grey boy 2

SinoSoldier said:


> There have been rumors that the land-attack variant of the YJ-18 actually has a range of 1400-1500 km instead of the accepted 540 km. Any more info on this rumor?


I recalled once, can't remember which Big Shrimp mentioned YJ-18X for 055 DDG with range close to Tomahawk II


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## rcrmj

the current 055 under construction doesnt have land attack capability, but its not difficult to upgrade, all depending on the requirement.

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## Akasa

grey boy 2 said:


> I recalled once, can't remember which Big Shrimp mentioned YJ-18X for 055 DDG with range close to Tomahawk II



Do you know if it was an estimate or something based on "leaked" info?



rcrmj said:


> the current 055 under construction doesnt have land attack capability, but its not difficult to upgrade, all depending on the requirement.



What info is this based on? Is the VLS aboard the 052D and 055 not able to accommodate strike variants of the YJ-18?


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## clibra

rcrmj said:


> the current 055 under construction doesnt have land attack capability, but its not difficult to upgrade, all depending on the requirement.



You forgot the 130mm gun.


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## Stuttgart001

clibra said:


> You forgot the 130mm gun.


I just red an article in a Chinese website last two weeks mentioning rewarding an outstanding designer who make a breakthrough in terms of a new big caliber naval gun.
I am afraid 155mm gun is on the way.

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## 帅的一匹

055 doesn't have land attack ability? Can't believe it

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## Oldman1

wanglaokan said:


> 055 doesn't have land attack ability? Can't believe it



I'm sure they can easily just change the weapons or add.

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## rcrmj

SinoSoldier said:


> Do you know if it was an estimate or something based on "leaked" info?
> 
> 
> 
> What info is this based on? Is the VLS aboard the 052D and 055 not able to accommodate strike variants of the YJ-18?


the VLS can host any new kits we have in the inventory, from sea to air, from land to under sea and to outer space, but land attack capability ≠ hosting a land cruise missile, or TMD capability ≠ hosting a TMD or NMD capable missile```software, control and command plug-in components and etc``````

p.s if you have a certian range figure regarding a missile from a 'big shrimp'```then just take with a pinch of salt, the real 'insiders' wont give any figures with certain numbers`````for example, last year, *a pomegranate* shoot a *new egg*, it flew very *far, far, far, far, far, far, far*``````and hit the target, this is kind of 'leak' you really should read into, not 'oh, it shoots X/Y/Z kms and hit a target```

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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> the VLS can host any new kits we have in the inventory, from sea to air, from land to under sea and to outer space, but land attack capability ≠ hosting a land cruise missile, or TMD capability ≠ hosting a TMD or NMD capable missile```software, control and command plug-in components and etc``````
> 
> p.s if you have a certian range figure regarding a missile from a 'big shrimp'```then just take with a pinch of salt, the real 'insiders' wont give any figures with certain numbers`````for example, last year, *a pomegranate* shoot a *new egg*, it flew very *far, far, far, far, far, far, far*``````and hit the target, this is kind of 'leak' you really should read into, not 'oh, it shoots X/Y/Z kms and hit a target```



Fair enough, but the question remains unanswered: where did all of this come from? A big shrimp, or whatever it's called?


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## rcrmj

wanglaokan said:


> 055 doesn't have land attack ability? Can't believe it


haha, there is alot of things you wont believe```good or bad, ```for example, 052D air defence system is good, not what most people (includeing most Chinese fans) woule believe it should be, it is so good, that gets those high official too cockey to say: 靶弹还不行，还不快，还不多 （those target vehicles are not fast enough, more enough······), 

who has the most variety and most advanced target vehicle families? China and U.S`````ps.`as far as I know, those two countries shoot down more 3M plus advanced target vehicles during exercises than some country's stockpile of supersonic missiles````



SinoSoldier said:


> Fair enough, but the question remains unanswered: where did all of this come from? A big shrimp, or whatever it's called?


lol, are you seriously asking me this question````?

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## samsara

rcrmj said:


> haha, there is alot of things you wont believe```good or bad, ```for example, 052D air defence system is good, not what most people (includeing most Chinese fans) woule believe it should be, it is so good, that gets those high official too cockey to say: 靶弹还不行，还不快，还不多 （those target vehicles are not fast enough, more enough······),
> 
> who has the most variety and most advanced target vehicle families? China and U.S`````ps.`as far as I know, those two countries shoot down more 3M plus advanced target vehicles during exercises than some country's stockpile of supersonic missiles````
> 
> 
> lol, are you seriously asking me this question````?


I believe SinoSoldier is a persona closely related to the other defence blog on China's military: SDF (a domain registered in Maryland, USA), possibly even the owner or at least the admin there  seems to fill in whatever is void there.


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## Akasa

samsara said:


> I believe SinoSoldier is a persona closely related to the other defence blog on China's military: SDF (a domain registered in Maryland, USA), possibly even the owner or at least the admin there  seems to fill in whatever is void there.



Of course; my account's name also happens to be "SinoSoldier" on SDF. How long did it take you to figure that one out?


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## cnleio

China 11th new type052D DDG ("Cheng Du") launch in DaLian shipyard
052d导弹驱逐舰下水几艘了 第11艘已在大船集团下水 

【052d导弹驱逐舰下水几艘了】据中船重工官方微信平台消息，8月3日，沐浴着建军节的喜庆，我国海军一艘最新型的导弹驱逐舰（第11艘052D型——观察者网注）在大船集团一号船台成功下水，中船重工集团董事长胡问鸣亲临为新舰砍缆，北海舰队副司令员黄新建、成都市副市长刘宏葆等共同见证。







【052d导弹驱逐舰下水几艘了】中船重工所属大船集团被誉为“海军舰艇的摇篮”，此次完成下水任务的一号船台始建于上世纪50年代，长200余米，宽27米，首部最高4米。它饱经风雨、历尽沧桑，为大船集团和中船重工发展、为中国海军装备建设立下了赫赫战功，为国家的海洋安全筑起了坚不可摧的海上长城。自投入使用以来，几百艘军舰从这座船台上下水，中国第一艘万吨轮、第一艘布雷舰、第一艘炮艇、中国第一代到第四代导弹驱逐舰都诞生在这里。可以说这座船台上每艘军舰下水溅起的浪花，都辉映着中国造船的成长与荣耀。随着大船集团军工产品由小型化向大型化、由小规模向大批量的发展，一号船台完成了它的历史使命，今天的下水仪式也是它的谢幕演出。

　　此时，一号船台已不再单纯是一座简单的建筑，而是升华为中船重工精神的化身，它将激励中船重工人不断奋勇向前。作为国家的脊梁，中船重工承载着中华民族的海洋情结和雄心壮志，忠诚履行着国有企业的责任和担当。坚持国家利益至上，时刻听从祖国召唤，在科学发展的道路上中船重工人蓄势待发，再谱新篇！

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## english_man

@cnleio...........i may of misunderstood your post, but the 11th 052D "Chengdu" was launched last summer on the 3rd August 2016.

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## Brainsucker

SinoSoldier said:


> Of course; my account's name also happens to be "SinoSoldier" on SDF. How long did it take you to figure that one out?



I wonder if Jeff, Popeye, and others are here too or not


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## Genesis

english_man said:


> @cnleio...........i may of misunderstood your post, but the 11th 052D "Chengdu" was launched last summer on the 3rd August 2016.


Actually the article did say August 3rd in the first sentence. So you are indeed correct.

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## 帅的一匹

cnleio said:


> China 11th new type052D DDG ("Cheng Du") launch in DaLian shipyard
> 052d导弹驱逐舰下水几艘了 第11艘已在大船集团下水
> 
> 【052d导弹驱逐舰下水几艘了】据中船重工官方微信平台消息，8月3日，沐浴着建军节的喜庆，我国海军一艘最新型的导弹驱逐舰（第11艘052D型——观察者网注）在大船集团一号船台成功下水，中船重工集团董事长胡问鸣亲临为新舰砍缆，北海舰队副司令员黄新建、成都市副市长刘宏葆等共同见证。
> 
> View attachment 393199
> 
> 
> 【052d导弹驱逐舰下水几艘了】中船重工所属大船集团被誉为“海军舰艇的摇篮”，此次完成下水任务的一号船台始建于上世纪50年代，长200余米，宽27米，首部最高4米。它饱经风雨、历尽沧桑，为大船集团和中船重工发展、为中国海军装备建设立下了赫赫战功，为国家的海洋安全筑起了坚不可摧的海上长城。自投入使用以来，几百艘军舰从这座船台上下水，中国第一艘万吨轮、第一艘布雷舰、第一艘炮艇、中国第一代到第四代导弹驱逐舰都诞生在这里。可以说这座船台上每艘军舰下水溅起的浪花，都辉映着中国造船的成长与荣耀。随着大船集团军工产品由小型化向大型化、由小规模向大批量的发展，一号船台完成了它的历史使命，今天的下水仪式也是它的谢幕演出。
> 
> 此时，一号船台已不再单纯是一座简单的建筑，而是升华为中船重工精神的化身，它将激励中船重工人不断奋勇向前。作为国家的脊梁，中船重工承载着中华民族的海洋情结和雄心壮志，忠诚履行着国有企业的责任和担当。坚持国家利益至上，时刻听从祖国召唤，在科学发展的道路上中船重工人蓄势待发，再谱新篇！
> View attachment 393200
> View attachment 393201


We should build 30 units of 052D, 14 is too small a number.

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## Stuttgart001

wanglaokan said:


> We should build 30 units of 052D, 14 is too small a number.


055 is ongoing. 
I think 7000 ton displacement is a little small for a modern destroyer ,which can not accommodate enough armament like anti-land cruise missiles.


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## english_man

Regarding the 052D, it does look like the class could well end up as 14 units, as we havn't seen any additional units listed in any construction tables. If that happens, then that is still more than what was originally predicted.
By the way the Chinese have launched themselves into the 055 program, it looks like this is what the Chinese naval planners really want as we have seen them starting off building 4 units, without the usual policy of building a lead ship, testing it, then if its ok, then order more vessels.
As China seems to of sorted out its marine engine problems, there is nothing now to stop them building the big toys for their navy!

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## samsara

english_man said:


> Regarding the 052D, it does look like the class could well end up as 14 units, as we havn't seen any additional units listed in any construction tables. If that happens, then that is still more than what was originally predicted.
> By the way the Chinese have launched themselves into the 055 program, it looks like this is what the Chinese naval planners really want as we have seen them starting off building 4 units, without the usual policy of building a lead ship, testing it, then if its ok, then order more vessels.
> As China seems to of sorted out its marine engine problems, there is nothing now to stop them building the big toys for their navy!


I just hope some familiar IND affiliated posters frequent to this column will agree with your above view  they still repeatedly have the conjectures that, Heaven forbid, China is still too slow in building and somehow lacks of efficiency...

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## grey boy 2

Dalian 052D DDG "3 brothers" updates (大连三艘052D进展，其中第三艘也已经安装上桅杆)

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## ao333

samsara said:


> I just hope some familiar IND affiliated posters frequent to this column will agree with your above view  they still repeatedly have the conjectures that, Heaven forbid, China is still too slow in building and somehow lacks of efficiency...



Chinese shipbuilding is not efficient. China is at 30% of Japan and South Korea's efficiency level.
http://fairplay.ihs.com/ship-constr...wants-its-yards-to-lead-the-world-in-10-years

Because China has 5x the military budget of Japan or 7x Korea's, the country can build more ships concurrently. It doesn't make the process more efficient.

If you are comparing to India, however, it's a non-sequitur. India does not have a shipbuilding industry to speak of.


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## Stuttgart001

ao333 said:


> Chinese shipbuilding is not efficient. China is at 30% of Japan and South Korea's efficiency level.
> http://fairplay.ihs.com/ship-constr...wants-its-yards-to-lead-the-world-in-10-years
> 
> Because China has 5x the military budget of Japan or 7x Korea's, the country can build more ships concurrently. It doesn't make the process more efficient.
> 
> If you are comparing to India, however, it's a non-sequitur. India does not have a shipbuilding industry to speak of.


Yes. In terms of ship building technology, China still lag behind japan/korea in about 10 ~15 years .
Luckily, shipbuilding industry is very traditional in which there's hardly going to be a huge technical revolution that gives China a chance to catch up .

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## jkroo

ao333 said:


> Chinese shipbuilding is not efficient. China is at 30% of Japan and South Korea's efficiency level.
> http://fairplay.ihs.com/ship-constr...wants-its-yards-to-lead-the-world-in-10-years
> 
> Because China has 5x the military budget of Japan or 7x Korea's, the country can build more ships concurrently. It doesn't make the process more efficient.
> 
> If you are comparing to India, however, it's a non-sequitur. India does not have a shipbuilding industry to speak of.


LMAO
Are you seriously bullsh!ting? At least you should post your basis of the figures and the definitions of efficiency.
Construct a fleet of a small nation level every year that is not efficient. LOL
OK I agree with you, expert. So please construct more and faster, China. LOL

Shipbuilding industry, civilian or military? East Asians are far more superior in the civilian shipbuilding industry. LOL

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## Stuttgart001

jkroo said:


> LMAO
> Are you seriously bullsh!ting? At least you should post your basis of the figures and the definitions of efficiency.
> Construct a fleet of a small nation level every year that is not efficient. LOL
> OK I agree with you, expert. So please construct more and faster, China. LOL
> 
> Shipbuilding industry, civilian or military? East Asians are far more superior in the civilian shipbuilding industry. LOL


Don't be annoyed.
I think what this guy talked about is the technique of shipbuilding not that of battleship.
Though the volume of shipbuilding industry of China is No.1 in the world, the technical level of shipbuilding is still kind of backward compared to Japan, South Korea.

It's not a big deal, cause China shipbuilding industry is consistently enhancing the technical level of shipbuilding for the past years and will develop and try more advanced tech in the future .
.

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## 26-K

It is common knowledge that there is a massive gap in capability between civilian and military shipbuilding in China. The shipbuilding firms that are on the white list of Ministry of Industry and Information Technology builds China's naval ships and therefore is given most resources and is much more efficient than the commercial ship yards. It is a bit of an insult to China to compare SK and Japan's naval shipbuilding capabilities when they import most of everything from the radars, propulsion down to the CIWS. The government is ordering a lot of navy ships to mainly boost naval power but also as an economic stimulus package of sorts. Andrew Erickson has a good article on this for English readers somewhere if you can't read Chinese.
Contrast this to China's civilian sector where many firms are facing some financial difficulties or bankruptcy, especially now with the container ship glut so orders aren't coming in. The government really should support the commercial shipyard more and not just focus solely on the military ones.

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## samsara

26-K said:


> It is common knowledge that there is a massive gap in capability between civilian and military shipbuilding in China. The shipbuilding firms that are on the white list of Ministry of Industry and Information Technology builds China's naval ships and therefore is given most resources and is much more efficient than the commercial ship yards. It is a bit of an insult to China to compare SK and Japan's naval shipbuilding capabilities when they import most of everything from the radars, propulsion down to the CIWS. The government is ordering a lot of navy ships to mainly boost naval power but also as an economic stimulus package of sorts. Andrew Erickson has a good article on this for English readers somewhere if you can't read Chinese.
> Contrast this to China's civilian sector where many firms are facing some financial difficulties or bankruptcy, especially now with the container ship glut so orders aren't coming in. The government really should support the commercial shipyard more and not just focus solely on the military ones.


Thanks for your exposition! Only those _who pay close attention_ to the *Chinese shipbuilding industry* can tell the fine lines between the military and civilian sectors 
However, as you may also realize from reading thoroughly in this great column at some aircraft carrier threads or elsewhere, for _how many years_ China _has been postponing_ from building such massive warships as CV in prioritizing resources on its economy development, and indeed such refrain and focus do pay off in economic explosion.

_*How many laymen might indeed think out of the virtues of such great patience in advance... as a good foresight instead of just hindsight thinking???*_ 

So now *perhaps* it's the PLA Navy's turn to get its top priority for all kinds of top resources until the Navy gets well settled. Or to say it in other words, the commercial shipbuilding sector can wait for its turn of top priority of resources too at some time later. But a commercial industrial line that is able to wholly build a giant commercial ship as large as _Xin Guang Hua_ 新光华 can't be far lagging behind its top competitors, if any, in particular within the whole ecosystem point of view in one-to-one relationship. Moreover if one takes into account those special-purpose civilian ships such as the Arctic exploration ship Xuelong 雪龙 (Snow Dragon) & its successor and manned deep-sea research submersible Jiaolong 蛟龙 (Aquatic Dragon) and so on... sure some one may add more the long list of achievements.

Btw, this newly posted thread: "Chinese Naval Shipbuilding: Measuring the Waves" (by Naval War College professor Andrew S. Erickson) gives a more in-depth reading about the Chinese shipbuilding industry from a foreign expert lens.

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## grey boy 2



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## grey boy 2



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## cnleio



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## 星海军事

It seems that there will be a small improvement on 346A begins with the 8th 052D.

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## Place Of Space

grey boy 2 said:


> Dalian 052D DDG "3 brothers" updates (大连三艘052D进展，其中第三艘也已经安装上桅杆)



Good news, our reporter.

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## grey boy 2

Updates: Dalian 3 brothers

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## grey boy 2

More HD pictures of the Dalian 3 brothers

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## grey boy 2

More of the Dalian bros

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## grey boy 2



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## grey boy 2

052D DDG "172"

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## Beast

grey boy 2 said:


> 052D DDG "172"


That is a terrible sea state! Salute to the naval crew.

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## grey boy 2

1st 052D DDG for the East Sea Fleet heading to Zhoushan navy base 【近日，人民海军东海舰队首艘052D导弹驱逐舰抵达舟山某军港码头！



】 鸣谢原创

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## grey boy 2

Dalian 052D DDG (大连052D)

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## Han Patriot

052D is really a nice looking ship.

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## lcloo

DDG 154 having final touch up before commissioning.

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## grey boy 2

052D, C DDG, awesome view

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## grey boy 2

More pictures of the newest 052D DDG "154"

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## grey boy 2

A old new picture of 052D DDG "117"

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## grey boy 2

052D 052C DDG in actions

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## grey boy 2

The 9th 052D DDG almost ready (9弟最新 靓照)

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## 帅的一匹

Still too slow, make it even faster.

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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> Still too slow, make it even faster.


Agree but I believe PLAN does not pit their hope on Type52D as their main forces. Look at how fast Type055 cruise with two hull building at the same time plus plenty of module ready made and standby to assemble anytime.

I can forsee, the building speed of Type055 cruiser will be much faster than Type052D. Its number will even outnumber Type052D.

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## grey boy 2

052D DDG "154" getting ready for commissioning soon

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## grey boy 2

The 7th 052D DDG "118" undergoing later stages of sea trail, should be commissioned before the year end 
第七条052d，118乌鲁木齐目前海试已经到了中后期，年底入列

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## cirr

Next batch of 8 052Ds awaiting contract finalization.

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## masud

can we hope that PLN DDG will surpass the number of US DDG in futur...................?

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## nang2

masud said:


> can we hope that PLN DDG will surpass the number of US DDG in futur...................?


not any time soon. us navy has global presence after all.


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## 帅的一匹

masud said:


> can we hope that PLN DDG will surpass the number of US DDG in futur...................?


Just a matter of time.

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## grey boy 2

052D DDG "117"

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## cnleio

masud said:


> can we hope that PLN DDG will surpass the number of US DDG in futur...................?


I think PLAN in future possibly reach 1/2 of US Navy large DDGs ...

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## Shotgunner51

masud said:


> can we hope that PLN DDG will surpass the number of US DDG in futur...................?


That's unlikely given very self-disciplined spending, in nominal value it's even less than a quarter of US. Sure China has world's largest maritime equipment industry (and related like steel, machining, electrical, etc), it can switch to war-time mode if needed. But during peace-time China government is very careful about money burn rate, long-term financial sustainability (vs bankruptcy), there is no motive (Chinese defence complex is state-owned) to over-tax the mass public or to indebt their next generation.

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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> I think PLAN in future possibly reach 1/2 of US Navy large DDGs ...
> View attachment 403470



This chart is not accurate, since there are already more than four different boats of the Type 094 appeared in the pics, so the PLAN cannot only have four Type 094 boats so far.

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## grey boy 2

CCTV: The VLS of 052D DDG "173" completely opened for the 1st time (央视曝光052d垂发导弹系统“井盖”“全”打开)




Comparison to 054A FFG

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## 星海军事

It is believed that PLANS Xiamen (DDG-154) was commissioned earlier this month.

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## Beast

星海军事 said:


> It is believed that PLANS Xiamen (DDG-154) was commissioned earlier this month.


But there seems to be no announcement or spotted ceremony. Usually an announcement will be made from ministry of defense of PRC.

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## english_man

Beast said:


> But there seems to be no announcement or spotted ceremony. Usually an announcement will be made from ministry of defense of PRC.



Exactly.........many times in the past, people have said ships have been commissioned, when in fact they havn't. Having a pennant number painted on, doesn't mean a ship has joined the fleet. To me, when i hear or see news of a vessels commissioning ceremony, only then can we say a ship has joined the active fleet........and as of this moment until we see or hear otherwise, only 5 x 052D's are in the fleet, though i do expect the 6th one to join very soon.

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## 星海军事

The last ship of this batch finally launched.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> But there seems to be no announcement or spotted ceremony. Usually an announcement will be made from ministry of defense of PRC.



There was also no announcement for the DDG-153, since the launch of the Type 055 has stolen all the spotlight.

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## lcloo

The 13th 052D launched on 26th June, 2 days ago is named PLANS Qiqihaer 齐齐哈尔舰。

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## grey boy 2

lcloo said:


> The 13th 052D launched on 26th June, 2 days ago is named PLANS Qiqihaer 齐齐哈尔舰。

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## GS Zhou

lcloo said:


> The 13th 052D launched on 26th June, 2 days ago is named PLANS Qiqihaer 齐齐哈尔舰。


I can hear the crying of this beauty. Even just few weeks before, she is still the focus of all the PLAN fans. But now, no one cares about her, because we have a new and hotter beauty 055.

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## TaiShang

GS Zhou said:


> I can hear the crying of this beauty. Even just few weeks before, she is still the focus of all the PLAN fans. But now, no one cares about her, because we have a new and hotter beauty 055.



Time is nearing for 052D to retire into China Coast Guard?

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## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> Time is nearing for 052D to retire into China Coast Guard?



We can sell them to Pakistan and Iran, since it would still have the best spotlight in those countries.

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## 帅的一匹

Time to sell Pakistan 052D

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## Beast

Type52D will stop at 13th. No more.

We need 24 Type 055 cruiser

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## clibra

Poor 052D

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## cnleio

Type055 out, nobody care type052D, so sad ~!

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## asad71

*China's first home-grown missile destroyer launched in Shanghai, enhances PLA Navy's combat ability*
In-Depth Coverage
People's Daily Online

(Global Times) 13:00, June 28, 2017

China's first home-grown 10,000-tonne class missile destroyer has been launched in Shanghai on Wednesday morning, marking a step forward for China's development in missile destroyers.

According to the PLA Daily, the new missile destroyer's launching ceremony has been held at 9:00 am Wednesday morning in Shanghai's Jiangnan Shipyard (Group) Co under the China State Shipbuilding Corporation, and Zhang Youxia, head of the CMC Equipment Development Department, attended the ceremony.

This is China's first home-grown 10,000-tonne class missile destroyer with advanced anti-air, anti-missile, anti-vessel and anti-submarine capabilities, and it is completely self-developed by China and it is a symbol of the Chinese navy's strategic transformation, according to the report.

The next step for this vessel will focus on equipment testing and sea trial.

The PLA Daily's report didn't mention the name or the type of this destroyer but according to previous report and experts analysis, it is a Type 055 guided-missile destroyer, and it is a crucial member in China's future aircraft carrier strike group.

Type 055 destroyer will greatly enhance PLA Navy's combat capability in the open sea, and ground attack capability, as its higher tonnage will enable it to be more versatile, Song Zhongping, a military expert, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

More importantly, Type 055 will form China's maritime anti-missile system together with 052D destroyer, which is already enlisted. China will be able to build a Chinese version of the 'Aegis missile defense system with the inclusion of 055, Song said.

*China's first home-grown missile destroyer launched in Shanghai, enhances PLA Navy's combat ability*
In-Depth Coverage
People's Daily Online

(Global Times) 13:00, June 28, 2017

China's first home-grown 10,000-tonne class missile destroyer has been launched in Shanghai on Wednesday morning, marking a step forward for China's development in missile destroyers.

According to the PLA Daily, the new missile destroyer's launching ceremony has been held at 9:00 am Wednesday morning in Shanghai's Jiangnan Shipyard (Group) Co under the China State Shipbuilding Corporation, and Zhang Youxia, head of the CMC Equipment Development Department, attended the ceremony.

This is China's first home-grown 10,000-tonne class missile destroyer with advanced anti-air, anti-missile, anti-vessel and anti-submarine capabilities, and it is completely self-developed by China and it is a symbol of the Chinese navy's strategic transformation, according to the report.

The next step for this vessel will focus on equipment testing and sea trial.

The PLA Daily's report didn't mention the name or the type of this destroyer but according to previous report and experts analysis, it is a Type 055 guided-missile destroyer, and it is a crucial member in China's future aircraft carrier strike group.

Type 055 destroyer will greatly enhance PLA Navy's combat capability in the open sea, and ground attack capability, as its higher tonnage will enable it to be more versatile, Song Zhongping, a military expert, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

More importantly, Type 055 will form China's maritime anti-missile system together with 052D destroyer, which is already enlisted. China will be able to build a Chinese version of the 'Aegis missile defense system with the inclusion of 055, Song said.

With more 055s entering PLAN, 052 would logically find entry into allied navies like BN and PN.

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## cirr

TaiShang said:


> Time is nearing for 052D to retire into China Coast Guard?



"052D+" from the 14th.

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## english_man

Well, according to Henri.K, the Chinese Navy has ordered some 26 x 052D's. I don't know where he got this info from, but he is usually correct with his predictions on Chinese Navy matters, and if that does come true, then that means the Chinese are going to have a very large, powerful surface fleet. Have any members here heard from other sources that China is going to build 26 x 052D's????

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## 帅的一匹

english_man said:


> Well, according to Henri.K, the Chinese Navy has ordered some 26 x 052D's. I don't know where he got this info from, but he is usually correct with his predictions on Chinese Navy matters, and if that does come true, then that means the Chinese are going to have a very large, powerful surface fleet. Have any members here heard from other sources that China is going to build 26 x 052D's????


I just hear PLAN place orders for another 8 units of 052D. 13+8=21

Maybe will add to 26, who knows?

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## cirr

english_man said:


> Well, according to Henri.K, the Chinese Navy has ordered some 26 x 052D's. I don't know where he got this info from, but he is usually correct with his predictions on Chinese Navy matters, and if that does come true, then that means the Chinese are going to have a very large, powerful surface fleet. Have any members here heard from other sources that China is going to build 26 x 052D's????



The construction of 052D has been temporarily put on hold as the shipyards wait for an improved design.

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## 帅的一匹

cirr said:


> The construction of 052D has been temporarily put on hold as the shipyards wait for an improved design.


Good news!

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## lcloo

IMO the next round of building frenzy should be concentrating on new 054B, therafter 052E with more powerful electrical/ hybric propulsion system similar to 054B, will start to roll out.

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## grey boy 2

052D DDG new "VLS" in actions for the 1st time
Firing "YJ-18" 【首见052D驱逐舰垂直发射鹰击18反舰导弹




】

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## Akasa

Could somebody translate the following (regarding YJ-18 on 052D)?

"从画面上看是热发射吗，可以排除使用冷发射的红旗9舰空导弹。另外，052D在舰桥前部安装4组8联装垂发系统，其中有2组是共架垂发，可混装16枚鹰击18或红旗9导弹，其他2组和后部4组是红旗9的专用垂发筒。以上两点可以断定这个视频截图是鹰击18反舰导弹。"

This seems to imply that only 16 out of 64 VLS cells on the 052D can launch the YJ-18 (or are simply dedicated to launching the YJ-18). Which leads to a few questions:

We know that the 052D's universal VLS comes in three cell sizes: 3.3m, 7m, and 9m. Can a particular VLS cell be taken out of its compartment and replaced with a cell of a different size?
Are all of the VLS spaces onboard the 052D capable of holding the 9m variant of the universal VLS cell?
Or, are the VLS cells capable of launching all types of missiles, but that 16 of the cells are simply dedicated (by choice, not by configuration) to launching the YJ-18?
Thanks.


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## Ironborn

I think it says, there are 2 group of launchers (16 in total) on 52D that are both capable of hot and cold launch method, since YJ-18 need to be hot launched (how I understand it), so those 2 groups are the ones to have AshM, but they can also launch HQ-9 with cold launch method if need to be. Could be just means there are only 2 groups (16 in total) has exhaust ports.

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## Akasa

Ironborn said:


> I think it says, there are 2 group of launchers (16 in total) on 52D that are both capable of hot and cold launch method, since YJ-18 need to be hot launched (how I understand it), so those 2 groups are the ones to have AshM, but they can also launch HQ-9 with cold launch method if need to be.



Thanks for the translation.

So, the choice of launcher is not limited by size or "depth" of the vessel but rather its launch method?


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## Akasa

cirr said:


> The construction of 052D has been temporarily put on hold as the shipyards wait for an improved design.



Any idea what the improved design will potentially entail?

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## sinait

SinoSoldier said:


> Could somebody translate the following (regarding YJ-18 on 052D)?
> 
> "从画面上看是热发射吗，可以排除使用冷发射的红旗9舰空导弹。另外，052D在舰桥前部安装4组8联装垂发系统，其中有2组是共架垂发，可混装16枚鹰击18或红旗9导弹，其他2组和后部4组是红旗9的专用垂发筒。以上两点可以断定这个视频截图是鹰击18反舰导弹。"
> 
> This seems to imply that only 16 out of 64 VLS cells on the 052D can launch the YJ-18 (or are simply dedicated to launching the YJ-18). Which leads to a few questions:
> 
> We know that the 052D's universal VLS comes in three cell sizes: 3.3m, 7m, and 9m. Can a particular VLS cell be taken out of its compartment and replaced with a cell of a different size?
> Are all of the VLS spaces onboard the 052D capable of holding the 9m variant of the universal VLS cell?
> Or, are the VLS cells capable of launching all types of missiles, but that 16 of the cells are simply dedicated (by choice, not by configuration) to launching the YJ-18?
> Thanks.


From the screen it could be seen to be hot launched, so can rule out the use of cold launch HQ9(HHQ-9) SAM. In addition, 052D have installed in the front of the bridge 4 groups of 8 'union'(universal) VLS, of which there are 2 groups of "combined-firing"(Hot & Cold) VLS, Can have mixed installation of either 16 YJ-18 or HQ9. The other 2 groups and the rear groups are dedicated HQ9 VLS. Can conclude from the above 2 points that this video screenshot is the YJ-18 ASHM.

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## JSCh

Hong Kong resident visiting type 052D CNS Yinchuan(175).



















​

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## cnleio

DDG-175 in HongKong

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## Bussard Ramjet

@SinoSoldier 

Some people have been saying that a Type 052D type warship stopped working in the middle of Indian Ocean. Is it true?


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## Akasa

Bussard Ramjet said:


> @SinoSoldier
> 
> Some people have been saying that a Type 052D type warship stopped working in the middle of Indian Ocean. Is it true?



Yes, due to a problem with propulsion. Word is that she will be replaced by another 052D.


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## Bussard Ramjet

SinoSoldier said:


> Yes, due to a problem with propulsion. Word is that she will be replaced by another 052D.



But doesn't that bode rather ill for the warship. 

Almost everyone considers propulsion as a Chinese weakness. (though Chinese in this forum will have you believe that they are already ahead of everyone else) 

That is why I have said, first prove your mantle in the civilian ship propulsion market. It is DOMINATED by western firms.


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## Akasa

Bussard Ramjet said:


> But doesn't that bode rather ill for the warship.
> 
> Almost everyone considers propulsion as a Chinese weakness. (though Chinese in this forum will have you believe that they are already ahead of everyone else)
> 
> That is why I have said, first prove your mantle in the civilian ship propulsion market. It is DOMINATED by western firms.



Let the investigations run their course first. It's the first incident of its kind to occur on the 052 series, so conclusions concerning the propulsion system would have to wait until technical data is obtained.

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## Bussard Ramjet

SinoSoldier said:


> Let the investigations run their course first. It's the first incident of its kind to occur on the 052 series, so conclusions concerning the propulsion system would have to wait until technical data is obtained.



Except we don't know. This was a ship that we knew was heading to the Baltics, and suddenly stopped midway (according to reports). 

China has a habit of hiding anything that can make them lose face, unless it is something that can't be hidden.


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## Akasa

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Except we don't know. This was a ship that we knew was heading to the Baltics, and suddenly stopped midway (according to reports).
> 
> China has a habit of hiding anything that can make them lose face, unless it is something that can't be hidden.



And thus we should wait for more information. There are conflicting reports about it's final location and what exactly transpired.


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## Pepsi Cola

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Except we don't know. This was a ship that we knew was heading to the Baltics, and suddenly stopped midway (according to reports).
> 
> China has a habit of hiding anything that can make them lose face, unless it is something that can't be hidden.


Can we not try to start another flame war here? All you are doing is starting a chain of arguments that is not productive to the actual discussion.

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## sheik

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Except we don't know. This was a ship that we knew was heading to the Baltics, and suddenly stopped midway (according to reports).
> 
> China has a habit of hiding anything that can make them lose face, unless it is something that can't be hidden.



So you mean India does not hide things that can make them lose face?
That might be true, as I read news of Indian aircraft crashing every a few days, not to mention amusing news like warship tipped over in dockyard, which seems to be hard to hide though.

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## Han Patriot

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-07/17/content_30134522.htm



> The marine resources survey ship will be 98 meters long and 17 m wide and will have a displacement of 4,000 tons. It will be driven by an *advanced electric propulsion system*.


Official confirmation of a working IEP.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The DDG-154 is already being commissioned right now.

http://www.guancha.cn/military-affairs/2017_07_19_418924.shtml

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## sheik

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The DDG-154 is already being commissioned right now.
> 
> http://www.guancha.cn/military-affairs/2017_07_19_418924.shtml



commissioned on 6/8/2017

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## ChineseTiger1986

sheik said:


> commissioned on 6/8/2017



I am hoping the DDG-118 and DDG-155 by the end of this year.

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## Han Patriot

Latest news on 173 Changsha, remember East Pendulum claimed there were rumors it was floating in IOR due to engine falilure. He now claims new info that the ship was recalled back for disciplinary action, seems like the commander had some discipline issues. Btw, I found out his so called source, TW media. 



> According to the Up Media newspaper quoting a source from the Taiwanese army (?) , Destroyer 173 _Changsha_ was on June 18 from China for the Baltic Sea. But for some unknown reason the ship would never have left the South China Sea and would have turned back towards the Fiery Cross reef to return to the Zhejiang naval base, Vessel is affected, by sailing at a speed of "22 knots".
> 
> This speed of the ship thus seems to rule out any serious damage to the propulsion system as claimed by another Chinese source, quoted in our article of 8 July.
> 
> The same Taiwanese source assumes that this early return would be linked to the disciplinary investigations that are currently underway in the Chinese army, and that one or more Chinese destroyer or flotilla officials would be involved, forcing the Chinese navy To repatriate the whole ship and have it replaced by another of the same class.



http://www.eastpendulum.com/histoire-destroyer-173-changsha

Use google translate. Most Indians were jumping in joy  and a few international outlets quoted the same East Pendulum 'news'.

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## Ironborn

When the engine issue brought up by Indians in this forum, RT already reported DDG-173 was conducting live fire exercise in the Mediterranean early. Just tells you can't believe everything comes out some of those so called "free media"

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## ChineseTiger1986

Ironborn said:


> When the engine issue brought up by Indians in this forum, RT already reported DDG-173 was conducting live fire exercise in the Mediterranean early. Just tells you can't believe everything comes out some of those so called "free media"



There is also a conspiracy theory among the Chinese netizens suggest that the DDG-173 was heading to the northern water of Australia to salvage the remain of the Shijian-18.

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## Han Patriot

Bussard Ramjet said:


> @SinoSoldier
> 
> Some people have been saying that a Type 052D type warship stopped working in the middle of Indian Ocean. Is it true?


Bussard where are you. You know what source East Pendulum uses, yes, TW media.

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## Han Patriot

Beast said:


> You must quote properly his user name @Bussard Ramjet . Make sure he has no excuse to trying to escape from out enquiry. Just like @jhungary who bragged about USS Fitzgerald is no fault with collusion with merchant ship. Superpowa discipline. World class training of USN. My foot! All this link proves what USN are incapable. Bunch of ill discipline and cowboy attitude sailors.
> PLaying cards, chit chatting and properly watching **** when the ship collided.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-idUSKBN1A62FX


Normally this kinda head banging accidents can only be performed by superbly trained Indian Navy.

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## jhungary

Beast said:


> You must quote properly his user name @Bussard Ramjet . Make sure he has no excuse to trying to escape from out enquiry. Just like @jhungary who bragged about USS Fitzgerald is no fault with collusion with merchant ship. Superpowa discipline. World class training of USN. My foot! All this link proves what USN are incapable. Bunch of ill discipline and cowboy attitude sailors.
> PLaying cards, chit chatting and properly watching **** when the ship collided.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-idUSKBN1A62FX



What is the USS Fitzgerald Collision have to do with Type 52D destroyer? 

@waz @Slav Defence can you remove this off topic post, he and his friend already started another flame bait click on the same topic, looks like someone is looking to get banned.


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## Beast

jhungary said:


> What is the USS Fitzgerald Collision have to do with Type 52D destroyer?
> 
> @waz @Slav Defence can you remove this off topic post, he and his friend already started another flame bait click on the same topic, looks like someone is looking to get banned.


No, the one get banned will be you. After trolling so hard and proven wrong and still wasting bandwidth in other thread. 

After trying escape my challenge and trying to divert the attention to here.

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## waz

Keep on topic folks.


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## grey boy 2

052D DDG "173" spotted drifting around hopelessly due to "ENGINE FAILURE" (credits to [浩汉原创] 曾经的偶遇)

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## nika



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## cnleio

China 14th type052D start building and 13th type052D launch

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## 星海军事

cnleio said:


> China 14th type052D start building and 13th type052D launch
> 
> View attachment 414878
> View attachment 414879
> View attachment 414880
> View attachment 414881
> View attachment 414882
> View attachment 414883
> View attachment 414885



The 14th 052D is yet to come.

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## cnleio

Now China Navy own many type052D DDGs

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## 帅的一匹

Can type 52D modified to launch cruise missles in the future?


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## 帅的一匹

Type 052E, VLS increase from 64 to 80. And there will be additional 8 AshM carried. Maybe a slightly enlarged updated version of type 052D.

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## rendong

wanglaokan said:


> Type 052E, VLS increase from 64 to 80. And there will be additional 8 AshM carried. Maybe a slightly enlarged updated version of type 052D.
> View attachment 415780
> View attachment 415781
> View attachment 415782
> View attachment 415783
> View attachment 415784


淘汰的方案发这没意义

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## cnleio

wanglaokan said:


> Type 052E, VLS increase from 64 to 80. And there will be additional 8 AshM carried. Maybe a slightly enlarged updated version of type 052D.
> View attachment 415780
> View attachment 415781
> View attachment 415782
> View attachment 415783
> View attachment 415784


Not type052E, a new “China Arleigh Burke” class DDG ...

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## Akasa

wanglaokan said:


> Type 052E, VLS increase from 64 to 80. And there will be additional 8 AshM carried. Maybe a slightly enlarged updated version of type 052D.
> View attachment 415780
> View attachment 415781
> View attachment 415782
> View attachment 415783
> View attachment 415784



It's the rejected configuration for the Type 055 project.


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## cnleio

DaLian shipyard, type052D DDGs building

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## 帅的一匹

SinoSoldier said:


> It's the rejected configuration for the Type 055 project.


Will this configuration for export?


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## waja2000

wanglaokan said:


> Can type 52D modified to launch cruise missles in the future?



Why type 52D need modify to launch cruise missile ?
All naval missile is design to fit specification of VLS, means dimension. 
for China main issue is can't make small missile compare to US/Euro arm maker, 
but believe China arm company is keep R & D future will see more smaller missile with same performance.
Example CJ-10 Cruise missile long 8.3 meter only can fit in 9 meter VLS, china can RnD small version CJ-10 
or China should develop new cruise missile with 6.5 meter so can fit int 52D VLS (7 meter version).
compare to Tomahawk 6.25 meter and MdCN 6.5 meter long.



wanglaokan said:


> Will this configuration for export?



should no issue for Export. 
But basically not much country navy have budget enough to buy/operate destroyer. some is geographic issue so no need destroyer.

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## grey boy 2

052D DDG 174 still looking good and strong

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## samsara

cnleio said:


> Not type052E, a new “China Arleigh Burke” class DDG ...
> View attachment 415806
> View attachment 415807
> View attachment 415808
> View attachment 415809
> 
> View attachment 415810


So, will PLAN eventually go with this "New" class DDG, something to fill in between the Type 052 series and Type 055 DDG? Think there's some significant cost gap with Type 055 to pursue this way...

When will be the kick-off estimation? This year or in the first half of 2018?

Btw there are many kinds of variations within the PLA arsenals, be it the Navy, AF, RF, etc  each for its own designation... not easy to grasp for the external parties


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## Figaro

samsara said:


> So, will PLAN eventually go with this "New" class DDG, something to fill in between the Type 052 series and Type 055 DDG? Think there's some significant cost gap with Type 055 to pursue this way...
> 
> When will be the kick-off estimation? This year or in the first half of 2018?
> 
> Btw there are many kinds of variations within the PLA arsenals, be it the Navy, AF, RF, etc  each for its own designation... not easy to grasp for the external parties


There is no more 052 series. The 052D production line will continue along with the 055. Constructing an intermediate variant would be very expensive and inefficient. The PLAN will keep constructing the 055 and 052D simultaneously; the latter's eventually slow in the advent of an IEPs 055.

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## grey boy 2

New updates of 052D DDG twins 双52D

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## grey boy 2

New 052D DDG of the North Sea fleet ready for sea trail 东海新锐
Commissioning this year (今年服役117、118、154)

Commissioning next year (明年服役119、120、155、156)

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## samsara

grey boy 2 said:


> New 052D DDG of the North Sea fleet ready for sea trail 东海新锐
> Commissioning this year (今年服役117、118、154)
> 
> Commissioning next year (明年服役119、120、155、156)


FEEL AMAZED to see the number of 052D DDG to be commissioned within this year and the next year. Combined with other kinds of large surface ships there will be many more new members joining the PLAN fleets in the near future   then the less obvious ones... submarines

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## grey boy 2

052D DDG "173"

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## GS Zhou

grey boy 2 said:


> Commissioning this year (今年服役117、118、154)
> 
> Commissioning next year (明年服役119、120、155、156)


Considering the two additional Type 052D commissioned in last year (DDG 174, 175), i.e. NINE Aegis destroyers in three years! The speed we build the 7000-ton destroyers is even much faster than other countries to build 1500-ton frigates. Amazing!!

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## cnleio

GS Zhou said:


> Considering the two additional Type 052D commissioned in last year (DDG 174, 175), i.e. NINE Aegis destroyers in three years! The speed we build the 7000-ton destroyers is even much faster than other countries to build 1500-ton frigates. Amazing!!
> 
> View attachment 426781


One word, China is getting RICH ! become powerful !

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## grey boy 2



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## grey boy 2

Even though we've 055 DDG now, imho, 052D DDG is still a beautiful beast in my eyes
[浩汉原创] 大连一日游——下集

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## cnleio

DaLian shipyard building 3x type052D DDGs

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## grey boy 2

"052D DDG production may have came to an end after the show up of "#14, 15 now waiting for #16, Its a kinda sad news to me due to my obsession with 052D DDG however like they said "when the old one doesn't go away, the new ones will never come"
Disclaimer: I do not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials.

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## 星海军事

grey boy 2 said:


> "052D DDG production may have came to an end after the show up of "#14, 15 now waiting for #16, Its a kinda sad news to me due to my obsession with 052D DDG however like they said "when the old one doesn't go away, the new ones will never come"
> Disclaimer: I do not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials.



That is merely a guess. Don't take it too seriously. The end of the 052 series has yet to come.

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## cnleio

grey boy 2 said:


> "052D DDG production may have came to an end after the show up of "#14, 15 now waiting for #16, Its a kinda sad news to me due to my obsession with 052D DDG however like they said "when the old one doesn't go away, the new ones will never come"
> Disclaimer: I do not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials.


A good news for me, after end of Type052D-class China can focus on building many powerful Type055 DDGs, Type055 will be PLAN's main battleship.

Old generation end, new generation come ... 6x Type052C + 15x Type052D is okay, future is the type055 building.

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## samsara

samsara said:


> The PLA Navy Type 052E Destroyer (observation info)
> 
> The Type 052E DDG may have dimensions as of 157 meters (L), 18 meters (W), draft of 6 meters, with full-load displacement is estimated to be around 7,500 tons
> 
> The main improvements: the Type 364 Radar to be replaced by a Single-sided X-band rotating phased-array radar, the Type 517B VHF air search radar to be replaced by an L-band remote search radar, the single hangar to be enlarged into double, flight deck extension by 2 meters more, powered by two gas turbine generators, Integrated Power System, stealthy chimney, universal VLS (96 cells) and YJ-12 anti-ship missile launchers.
> 
> View attachment 427643
> 
> View attachment 427644
> 
> View attachment 427645
> 
> View attachment 427646
> 
> View attachment 427647
> 
> View attachment 427648
> 
> View attachment 427649
> 
> 
> More info:
> 96垂发和鹰击12反舰弹！中国是否建052E驱逐舰 [2017.08.03]
> http://slide.mil.news.sina.com.cn/h/slide_8_203_55651.html
> 
> 中国052E驱逐舰长什么样？或成航母带刀护卫 [2017-09-17]
> http://war.163.com/photoview/4T8E0001/2275347.html
> 
> _*Article mentioned that China's **Type 052D** destroyer procurement number is more than **16 ships, has gradually entered the end of construction**, at the same time it's also mentioned that the **Type 052E destroyer will be the next successors **and PLAN Aegis destroyer ship procurement may reach 40 units, and mentioned that Type 055 destroyer units in service may reach 12~20 units. （小飞猪观察）*
> 
> 有文章提到，我国的052D驱逐舰采购数量超过16艘，目前已经渐渐的进入了建造尾声，同时还提到052E驱逐舰也将会采购这一数量，海军的“神盾”级驱逐舰将达到40艘，同时还提到055驱逐舰的服役数量也会有12艘-20艘。（小飞猪观察）_



So above info seems to be pretty accurate so far... Type 052D ~ 16 units then Type 052E will pop up

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## 帅的一匹

Why we need type 52E when we already have type 055 DDG?

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## samsara

wanglaokan said:


> Why we need type 52E when we already have type 055 DDG?


PLA Navy will order BOTH 052E and 055... 052E is the further development of 052 series and 055 is costly compared to this series... and if the same source is to be accounted, "PLAN Aegis destroyer ship procurement may reach 40 units, and mentioned that Type 055 destroyer units in service may reach 12~20 units"... PLA Navy simply wanna achieves its objective in more cost efficient way with such mix... and sound logical!

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## 帅的一匹

samsara said:


> PLA Navy will order BOTH 052E and 055... 052E is the further development of 052 series and 055 is costly compared to this series... and if the same source is to be accounted, "PLAN Aegis destroyer ship procurement may reach 40 units, and mentioned that Type 055 destroyer units in service may reach 12~20 units"... PLA Navy simply wanna achieves its objective in more cost efficient way with such mix... and sound logical!


What's the full displacement of Type 052E?


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## samsara

wanglaokan said:


> What's the full displacement of Type 052E?


See the earlier post to get back to the original post _here_.

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## grey boy 2

New 052D DDG [蓝鲨小队] 喜迎盛会，造船厂抓紧建造战舰！

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## grey boy 2

More 052D in progress
Disclaimer: I do not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials.

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## samsara

*The emblem of the 9th Type 052D, 155 Nanjing, uses the head of a Chinese mythical animal called 睚眦.*
*Nanjing, 睚眦, it's very revealing... *





*East Pendulum @HenriKenhmann 2017-10-22*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/922251007513341952
*It should well remind some party to behave itself... don't play dumb as if no capital sins were conducted in the past. You may deliberately choose to forget, to deny even to whitewash... yet we do remember.*

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## cnleio

9th new Type052D DDG-155 "NanJing" join PLAN

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## 星海军事

New destroyer has been laid next to 055 #3 and 4. DSIC is catching up with JSGC.

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## clarkgap

星海军事 said:


> New destroyer has been laid next to 055 #3 and 4. DSIC is catching up with JSGC.



This is 052D DDG thread. You mean Jiangnan shipyard began to build new 052 series DDG? Or it is a new 055 DDG?


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## english_man

Just to clarify..........from info i have seen from other sites, there are currently 13 052D's that are either in service (6 off), sea trials, being fitted out etc. On top of that there are rumours that modules for a further 2 052D's have been spotted at JN shipyard............and on the topic of 055's, still only 4 in construction, unless of course anyone can provide photographic evidence to prove otherwise........


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## cirr

english_man said:


> Just to clarify..........from info i have seen from other sites, there are currently 13 052D's that are either in service (6 off), sea trials, being fitted out etc. On top of that there are rumours that modules for a further 2 052D's have been spotted at JN shipyard............and on the topic of 055's, still only 4 in construction, unless of course anyone can provide photographic evidence to prove otherwise........



#5 055 at JN in queue for berth to be vacated after the launch of #2 by the end of the year or thereabout.

New 052D modules are spotted placed next to 055 #3 and #4 at DL.

Also rumours have it that two companies are joining hands to build nuclear powered surface combatants for the PLAN.

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## clarkgap

星海军事 said:


> New destroyer has been laid next to 055 #3 and 4. DSIC is catching up with JSGC.



Jane's bought a new satellite imagery to analyze the number of LCAC in Jiangnan Shipyard. I may found the module of fifth 055 and fifteenth 052D. I label them on the image. Is it correct?

http://www.janes.com/article/76078/china-building-more-yuyi-class-lcacs

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## english_man

clarkgap said:


> Jane's bought a new satellite imagery to analyze the number of LCAC in Jiangnan Shipyard. I may found the module of fifth 055 and fifteenth 052D. I label them on the image. Is it correct?
> 
> http://www.janes.com/article/76078/china-building-more-yuyi-class-lcacs
> 
> View attachment 440094



It does look like you could be correct, as the modules you highlight do look slightly narrower than those of an 055, suggesting its another 052D. Its interesting to note, that if so, then it would mark a change, as previous 052D's were built in the hallways, for their hull builds. I presume the 055's are built outside as they are too large.
Anyway, the speed at which JN can construct hulls form the module stage to launching a vessel is very impressive indeed.
I just wish we could get more regular shots of JN shipyard, and not just aerial photos, as we used to get images at ground level facing the covered hallways.


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## 星海军事

clarkgap said:


> Jane's bought a new satellite imagery to analyze the number of LCAC in Jiangnan Shipyard. I may found the module of fifth 055 and fifteenth 052D. I label them on the image. Is it correct?
> 
> http://www.janes.com/article/76078/china-building-more-yuyi-class-lcacs
> 
> View attachment 440094



You should be confident in yourself.

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## clarkgap

Seventh Type 052D 118 Ürümqi(乌鲁木齐):

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## cnleio



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## cnleio

NEW TWO

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## lcloo

Hot and cold launch from 052D's universal VLS.

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## Beast

lcloo said:


> Hot and cold launch from 052D's universal VLS.
> 
> View attachment 448850
> View attachment 448851



The first such unique system in the world.

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## lcloo

St. Petersburg 2017 July 27th. Girl, sky and a ship, all are beautiful.

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## clarkgap

lcloo said:


> St. Petersburg 2017 July 27th. Girl, sky and a ship, all are beautiful.
> View attachment 452025



More image about this:








https://maailm.postimees.ee/4196423...buvad-tana-soome?gallery=105265&image=6947947

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## Figaro

USN confuses Arleigh Burke class destroyer with 052D

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## cirr

2018 will see the construction of the last(the 20th) 052D, followed by the start on the construction of the first 052E in 2019.

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## Genesis

cirr said:


> 2018 will see the construction of the last(the 20th) 052D, followed by the start on the construction of the first 052E in 2019.


We are going to match Japan ship for ship in the destroyer department. Was not expecting that for at least another decade, but here we are. Good times.

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## Beast

Figaro said:


> USN confuses Arleigh Burke class destroyer with 052D
> View attachment 454876
> 
> View attachment 454877


What you expect from naval forces that repeatedly ram merchant ships in short period of time due to poor shipman ship?

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## 星海军事

Continuous HHQ-9B missile launch of PLANS Kunming (DDG-172).

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## Akasa

星海军事 said:


> Continuous HHQ-9B missile launch of PLANS Kunming (DDG-172).
> 
> View attachment 455824



Any idea what the status of the HQ-26 project is?


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## Deino



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Figaro

I'm curious why the PLAN commissioned the recent 052D without fanfare or a public ceremony anymore. It never appeared to me that they were deceptive, especially with regards to the surface fleet. Is it part of the new national security policy?


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## Dungeness

Figaro said:


> I'm curious why the PLAN commissioned the recent 052D without fanfare or a public ceremony anymore. It never appeared to me that they were deceptive, especially with regards to the surface fleet. Is it part of the new national security policy?



052D is "out", 055/075/002 are "in".

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## 帅的一匹

https://view.inews.qq.com/a/20180413V178IY00?uid=8730528

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## english_man

Figaro said:


> I'm curious why the PLAN commissioned the recent 052D without fanfare or a public ceremony anymore. It never appeared to me that they were deceptive, especially with regards to the surface fleet. Is it part of the new national security policy?



If true, it is strange as it really doesn't mean anything, as we all know and can see what warships and how many the Chinese are building. All it does is just delay people like us and anyone else interested in naval matters, as to when a particular ship gets commissioned into the fleet!


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## 星海军事

Figaro said:


> I'm curious why the PLAN commissioned the recent 052D without fanfare or a public ceremony anymore. It never appeared to me that they were deceptive, especially with regards to the surface fleet. Is it part of the new national security policy?





english_man said:


> If true, it is strange as it really doesn't mean anything, as we all know and can see what warships and how many the Chinese are building. All it does is just delay people like us and anyone else interested in naval matters, as to when a particular ship gets commissioned into the fleet!





星海军事 said:


> I have been overconfident. This might be bad news to some of you -- an instruction has been given to stop report on commission events.

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## samsara

In my own opinion from the beginning, disclosure in military affairs should be strictly done at the "need-to-know basis"... A military force discloses any info if it deem it's necessary and serves some point(s)... but no such unnecessary disclosure, which is a foolish thing to do. And every force has its own objective. So, in this case it's just fine for me. In today's world, the seemingly rather peaceful situation looks like just a calm sea before the storm... though one can hardly tell the timing of such storm. I am aware many here may not like this new policy, but I just say out what I do believe

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## LKJ86



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## lcloo

DDG 172 in live firing. The hot launched missile is said to be the new YJ-18.

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## monitor

*Image suggests YJ-18 anti-ship missile has entered PLAN service*
*Richard D Fisher Jr* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
07 September 2017
China has released the first photograph of its YJ-18 anti-ship missile (ASM) being launched from a People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) Type 052D destroyer: an indication that the ASM has entered service with the fleet.



China has released the first image of its YJ-18 ASM being launched from a PLAN Type 052D destroyer: an indication that the ASM may have entered service with the fleet. (Modern Ships magazine via CJDBY webpage)

Published in the Chinese military magazine _Modern Ships_ , the image appears to confirm previous media reports that the YJ-18 is a vertically-launched (VL) three-stage ASM that it is similar in design to the Russian-made Novator 3M-54T (SS-N-27A ‘Sizzler’) Kalibr-NK ASM.

This photograph shows that the YJ-18 shares the domestic VL version’s distinctive layout, with its booster (first stage), cruise missile (second stage), and its supersonic rocket-powered third stage.

China acquired the submarine-launched 3M-54E (SS-N-27B ‘Sizzler’) Club-S export ASM to arm is eight Russian-built Project 636M conventional attack submarines delivered between 2004 and 2006. It is not clear whether Russia sold co-production rights or whether China developed a close copy of the 3M-54 domestic version.

In its 2015 China Military Power report the US Department of Defense had stated that the “Luyang III DDG and Type 055 CG will be fitted with a variant of China’s newest anti-ship cruise missile, the YJ-18 (290 n miles [537 km]), which is a significant step forward in China’s surface ASUW [anti-surface warfare] capability”.

*Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options:　**ihs.com/contact*

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## Akasa

lcloo said:


> DDG 172 in live firing. The hot launched missile is said to be the new YJ-18.
> View attachment 468875
> View attachment 468876
> View attachment 468877



Does anybody know the length of the YJ-18? This can clue us in as to whether the 052D has land-attack capability or not (fzgfzy and a few other credible posters have claimed that it does, but this would confirm it).


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## 星海军事

Akasa said:


> Does anybody know the length of the YJ-18? This can clue us in as to whether the 052D has land-attack capability or not (fzgfzy and a few other credible posters have claimed that it does, but this would confirm it).



The answer is no, or not for now, and it has been confirmed by several sources.






The combat system on 052D and 055 resembles the upgreadable AEGIS, which ensures the exploitation of its potential (in the form similar to Baselines).

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## LKJ86

2018.4.25




destination: Indonesia

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## LKJ86

The improved version of 052D???


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## LKJ86

The comparison between 052D and its improved version.




https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/2NdLipUvbzU6GUlC8c7xSw


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## Akasa

星海军事 said:


> The answer is no, or not for now, and it has been confirmed by several sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The combat system on 052D and 055 resembles the upgreadable AEGIS, which ensures the exploitation of its potential (in the form similar to Baselines).



Understood, thanks for the information! However, are some of the VLS cells "deep" enough to accommodate the YJ-18 land-attack cruise missile once software upgrades are complete?


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## 星海军事

Akasa said:


> Understood, thanks for the information! However, are some of the VLS cells "deep" enough to accommodate the YJ-18 land-attack cruise missile once software upgrades are complete?


I believe all modules are deep enough since the length of the land-attack cruise missile is less than 7 meters.


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## Akasa

星海军事 said:


> I believe all modules are deep enough since the length of the land-attack cruise missile is less than 7 meters.



Really? Not 9 meters?

But does the 052D have any 9 m modules in general, though?


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## 星海军事

Akasa said:


> Really? Not 9 meters?
> 
> But does the 052D have any 9 m modules in general, though?


Of course, but they are meant for YJ-18A.


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## Akasa

星海军事 said:


> Of course, but they are meant for YJ-18A.



And possibly the HQ-26 in the future?


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## english_man

Just for reference, as we now know it does appear that the Chinese authorities are making less of any news about recent commissionings of some of their major surface combatants, as we found out last year when there was apparently no fanfare over the 6th 052D being entered into service, last June.
Since then, i had wondered how many 052D's are now actually in service, and according to WIKI (Chinese) version, which i find to be very accurate, it is believed there are now 7 052D's in service, with the "Nanjing" entering service this month. There is still a question mark whether the "Urumqi" has entered service yet, so it could be 8 052D's in service.
Also it is quoted that there are now 19 052D's in total, built, or being built.
Can anyone here clarify whether this is correct or not?

Anyway, together with the 055, China is really going for it, in building a large Destroyer fleet!

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## 帅的一匹

english_man said:


> Just for reference, as we now know it does appear that the Chinese authorities are making less of any news about recent commissionings of some of their major surface combatants, as we found out last year when there was apparently no fanfare over the 6th 052D being entered into service, last June.
> Since then, i had wondered how many 052D's are now actually in service, and according to WIKI (Chinese) version, which i find to be very accurate, it is believed there are now 7 052D's in service, with the "Nanjing" entering service this month. There is still a question mark whether the "Urumqi" has entered service yet, so it could be 8 052D's in service.
> Also it is quoted that there are now 19 052D's in total, built, or being built.
> Can anyone here clarify whether this is correct or not?
> 
> Anyway, together with the 055, China is really going for it, in building a large Destroyer fleet!


Twenty one 052D and eight 055 in first batch. And the goal is over 70 modern destroyers fleet before year 2030.

China will be a giant beast on the high sea by year 2030, but a peace loving one like Godzilla 2015.


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## Figaro

english_man said:


> Just for reference, as we now know it does appear that the Chinese authorities are making less of any news about recent commissionings of some of their major surface combatants, as we found out last year when there was apparently no fanfare over the 6th 052D being entered into service, last June.
> Since then, i had wondered how many 052D's are now actually in service, and according to WIKI (Chinese) version, which i find to be very accurate, it is believed there are now 7 052D's in service, with the "Nanjing" entering service this month. There is still a question mark whether the "Urumqi" has entered service yet, so it could be 8 052D's in service.
> Also it is quoted that there are now 19 052D's in total, built, or being built.
> Can anyone here clarify whether this is correct or not?
> 
> Anyway, together with the 055, China is really going for it, in building a large Destroyer fleet!


China now needs to focus on its nuclear submarine fleet of 095s and 096s, which are arguably more important than a large destroyer fleet. A blue water navy needs to be dominant both above and below the water



wanglaokan said:


> Twenty one 052D and eight 055 in first batch. And the goal is over 70 modern destroyers fleet before year 2030.
> 
> China will be a giant beast on the high sea by year 2030, but a peace loving one like Godzilla 2015.


Indeed. But I feel that the 095 development is much more important than even the 055. If its noise can rival that of Virginia’s, that would be a game changer for the PLAN

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## 帅的一匹

Figaro said:


> China now needs to focus on its nuclear submarine fleet of 095s and 096s, which are arguably more important than a large destroyer fleet. A blue water navy needs to be dominant both above and below the water


China will be the strongest and peaceful country in Asia by year 2030.

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## wulff

Figaro said:


> China now needs to focus on its nuclear submarine fleet of 095s and 096s, which are arguably more important than a large destroyer fleet. A blue water navy needs to be dominant both above and below the water
> 
> 
> Indeed. But I feel that the 095 development is much more important than even the 055. If its noise can rival that of Virginia’s, that would be a game changer for the PLAN



That is absolutely correct. The Chinese Surface ships are sitting ducks as long as the US and even Japan/Aus have the world's quietest submarines prowling the waters below. It amazes me that the PLAN is focusing so heavily on Destroyers and Flattops when they are outclassed and outnumbered under the water. The subsurface domain is where the PLAN is the most vulnerable and where they appear to be investing the least.

The PLAN will be decimated unless it completely disrupts the fish hook line and develops technologically equal undersea forces to protect its surface groups


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## LKJ86

wulff said:


> That is absolutely correct. The Chinese Surface ships are sitting ducks as long as the US and even Japan/Aus have the world's quietest submarines prowling the waters below. It amazes me that the PLAN is focusing so heavily on Destroyers and Flattops when they are outclassed and outnumbered under the water. The subsurface domain is where the PLAN is the most vulnerable and where they appear to be investing the least.


The development of Chinese submarines is in secret, and no news is good news.

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## english_man

I have no doubt that the Chinese are working very hard on their submarine development, its just that this is wrapped up in greater secrecy. Once these new nuclear subs come into service in the next decade, then the Chinese would of completed their naval development, and its then the fleet should have its greatest protection.

Anyway back to the 052D.......based on what we know now about the number of 052D's and 055's, can anyone hazard a guess as to what the carrier battle groups in terms of numbers be made up of between 2020-2030?


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## 帅的一匹

wulff said:


> That is absolutely correct. The Chinese Surface ships are sitting ducks as long as the US and even Japan/Aus have the world's quietest submarines prowling the waters below. It amazes me that the PLAN is focusing so heavily on Destroyers and Flattops when they are outclassed and outnumbered under the water. The subsurface domain is where the PLAN is the most vulnerable and where they appear to be investing the least.
> 
> The PLAN will be decimated unless it completely disrupts the fish hook line and develops technologically equal undersea forces to protect its surface groups


You know nothing

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## Dante80

wulff said:


> That is absolutely correct. The Chinese Surface ships are sitting ducks as long as the US and even Japan/Aus have the world's quietest submarines prowling the waters below. It amazes me that the PLAN is focusing so heavily on Destroyers and Flattops when they are outclassed and outnumbered under the water. The subsurface domain is where the PLAN is the most vulnerable and where they appear to be investing the least.
> 
> The PLAN will be decimated unless it completely disrupts the fish hook line and develops technologically equal undersea forces to protect its surface groups



The subsurface domain is indeed where PLAN is figured to be most vulnerable (both submarine and anti-submarine warfare to be exact). Have in mind though that the fact they "appear investing the least" does not really say much. This impression is simply the result of profound secrecy in this sector of PLAN procurement.

Which - btw - should say a lot about how important PLAN considers its submarine program to be. 

To get back on topic, I count 17 052Ds in all (active, building, fitting out). I haven't seen any concrete evidence for PLAN building the 18th hull. Do we have more information on this?

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## 帅的一匹

Dante80 said:


> The subsurface domain is indeed where PLAN is figured to be most vulnerable (both submarine and anti-submarine warfare to be exact). Have in mind though that the fact they "appear investing the least" does not really say much. This impression is simply the result of profound secrecy in this sector of PLAN procurement.
> 
> Which - btw - should say a lot about how important PLAN considers its submarine program to be.
> 
> To get back on topic, I count 17 052Ds in all (active, building, fitting out). I haven't seen any concrete evidence for PLAN building the 18th hull. Do we have more information on this?


Never try to show whatever you've got, that's the nouveau rich mentality.


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## Beast

wulff said:


> That is absolutely correct. The Chinese Surface ships are sitting ducks as long as the US and even Japan/Aus have the world's quietest submarines prowling the waters below. It amazes me that the PLAN is focusing so heavily on Destroyers and Flattops when they are outclassed and outnumbered under the water. The subsurface domain is where the PLAN is the most vulnerable and where they appear to be investing the least.
> 
> The PLAN will be decimated unless it completely disrupts the fish hook line and develops technologically equal undersea forces to protect its surface groups


Submarine are unable to do the global projection needed for a major naval power. Soviet make such mistakes, PLAN will not follow. How do you support amphibious operation with submariner? How do you provided air defense for marine landing? Humanity mission , evacuation and rapid search and rescue operation with helo?

Submarine can’t do that.


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## Dante80

Beast said:


> Submarine are unable to do the global projection needed for a major naval power. Soviet make such mistakes, PLAN will not follow. How do you support amphibious operation with submariner? How do you provided air defense for marine landing? Humanity mission , evacuation and rapid search and rescue operation with helo?
> 
> Submarine can’t do that.



The Soviet Union did not really have a "global projection" strategic mandate. Thus, they really did no mistake. PLAN also does not have a global projection strategic mandate. The far seas fleet (when it will be commissioned as such) is going to work on the africa<->asia trade route line.

PLAN needs (and has under development) a pretty substantial submarine and ASW program for four main reasons.

1. A nuanced, dependable and substantial second strike capability against counterforce decapitation strikes, as part of the Nuclear Triad.
2. The ability to guard against point 1.
3. The ability to achieve naval supremacy inside the second island chain (which is a difficult theater for PLANs SS and SSG fleet).
4. The capability of countering USNs extensive and substantial SSN program and doctrine of operations.


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## Beast

Dante80 said:


> The Soviet Union did not really have a "global projection" strategic mandate. Thus, they really did no mistake. PLAN also does not have a global projection strategic mandate. The far seas fleet (when it will be commissioned as such) is going to work on the africa<->trade route line.
> 
> PLAN needs (and has under development) a pretty substantial submarine and ASW program for four main reasons.
> 
> 1. A nuanced, dependable and substantial second strike capability against counterforce decapitation strikes, as part of the Nuclear Triad.
> 2. The ability to guard against point 1.
> 3. The ability to achieve naval supremacy inside the second island chain (which is a difficult theater for PLANs SS and SSG fleet).
> 4. The capability of countering USNs extensive and substantial SSN program and doctrine of operations.


The China indeed have a global strategic plan. President Xi has reshaped the whole PLA and making PLAN and PLAAF the priority to have global projection. Increasing PLAN marine strength from 25000 to at least 100000 is a statement of this plan.

China are no more content with just local defense. With China trade and investment going global, such global power projection is needed to safeguard the asset. China strategies dont always stay the same, it will changes according to time and circumstances need.


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## english_man

Dante80 said:


> To get back on topic, I count 17 052Ds in all (active, building, fitting out). I haven't seen any concrete evidence for PLAN building the 18th hull. Do we have more information on this?



Yes, i thought it was 17 052D's...........but according to the Chinese WIKI page on the 052D.........both the 18th & 19th vessels (no's 163 & 164) are under early slipway construction stages at Jiangnan shipyard. When completed, they are apparently due to join the 2nd Destroyer detachment at the Southern fleet!
Further reference is that there will be a 20th vessel (no 124), due to be built at Dalian, and will join the 10th Destroyer detachment at the Northern fleet.

Just had another look at the 052D page................and its said there are 8 052D's in active service, with another one the "Guiyang" to become the 9th sometime mid year?

For further reference, Chinese WIKI also confirms there are 6 055's being built as of now, of which the first 4 will be joining the 1st Destroyer detachment at the Northern fleet, and the 5th and 6th vessels to be joining the 9th Destroyer detachment at the Southern fleet.

Whoever the person, or people are who keep updating the Chinese Navy pages at the Chinese WIKI site, they seem very clued up with the developments of the Chinese Navy, as they seem to be very accurate with their info.....so far!

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## LKJ86



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## samsara

english_man said:


> Yes, i thought it was 17 052D's...........but according to the Chinese WIKI page on the 052D.........both the 18th & 19th vessels (no's 163 & 164) are under early slipway construction stages at Jiangnan shipyard. When completed, they are apparently due to join the 2nd Destroyer detachment at the Southern fleet!
> Further reference is that there will be a 20th vessel (no 124), due to be built at Dalian, and will join the 10th Destroyer detachment at the Northern fleet.
> 
> Just had another look at the 052D page................and its said there are 8 052D's in active service, with another one the "Guiyang" to become the 9th sometime mid year?
> 
> For further reference, Chinese WIKI also confirms there are 6 055's being built as of now, of which the first 4 will be joining the 1st Destroyer detachment at the Northern fleet, and the 5th and 6th vessels to be joining the 9th Destroyer detachment at the Southern fleet.
> 
> Whoever the person, or people are who keep updating the Chinese Navy pages at the Chinese WIKI site, they seem very clued up with the developments of the Chinese Navy, as they seem to be very accurate with their info.....so far!


My earlier post (end of September 2017) about the transition from Type 052D to Type 052E seems to be accurate. 052D ends up in 20 units is the most likely outcome.

_“Article mentioned that China's Type 052D destroyer procurement number is more than 16 ships, has gradually entered the end of construction, at the same time it's also mentioned that the Type 052E destroyer will be the next successors and PLAN Aegis destroyer ship procurement may reach 40 units, and mentioned that Type 055 destroyer units in service may reach 12~20 units.”（小飞猪观察）_

有文章提到，我国的052D驱逐舰采购数量超过16艘，目前已经渐渐的进入了建造尾声，同时还提到052E驱逐舰也将会采购这一数量，海军的“神盾”级驱逐舰将达到40艘，同时还提到055驱逐舰的服役数量也会有12艘-20艘。（小飞猪观察）

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chinese-navy-plan-news-discussions.84213/page-266#post-9893962

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## 帅的一匹

Six 052c/eighteen 052D/DDG/eighteen 052E/twenty 055/and thirty 054A Frigates and eighty 056 corvettes.

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 469839

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## wulff

LKJ86 said:


> The development of Chinese submarines is in secret, and no news is good news.





Dante80 said:


> The subsurface domain is indeed where PLAN is figured to be most vulnerable (both submarine and anti-submarine warfare to be exact). Have in mind though that the fact they "appear investing the least" does not really say much. This impression is simply the result of profound secrecy in this sector of PLAN procurement.
> 
> Which - btw - should say a lot about how important PLAN considers its submarine program to be.
> 
> To get back on topic, I count 17 052Ds in all (active, building, fitting out). I haven't seen any concrete evidence for PLAN building the 18th hull. Do we have more information on this?





wanglaokan said:


> You know nothing





wanglaokan said:


> Six 052c/eighteen 052D/DDG/eighteen 052E/twenty 055/and thirty 054A Frigates and eighty 056 corvettes.



That last post is exactly why I said the PLAN appears to be investing the least in its subsurface force. Since 2002-03 the ships they have inducted/are building:

6 055 (at least 8 planned)
6 052C
19 052D (26 planned) (some say 40)

2 054
30 054A
24 054B planned (likely)

6 071 (likely more to come)
2 075 under construction (at least 4 planned)
2 aircraft carriers (3rd being built)

That is 100+ blue water ships that will join the fleet by ~2025. I'm leaving out the 46 or so 056s and the 13-14 replenishment ships they have built as well.

On the other hand, when it comes to SSNs, the PLAN has hardly got 5 (or maybe 6 or 7 max):
2 093
2 093 with the modified sail (those are the ones seen in the recent fleet review)
1 093B with the VLS hump (the one that surfaced off the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands in January)


That is 5 confirmed (correct me here) compared to the 50+ the USN has. This is a massive disparity in numbers (notwithstanding the huge qualitative advantage the USN has over the PLAN in terms of technology, and in trained crews).

5 boats in service for a class that was first launched way back in 2002.

The next-gen submarine (095 class) will not be launched till 2020 at the very least with commissioning to be in 2022 or even later. From what we have heard, only 8 boats planned to be built by 2030.

I suspect this situation has some relation to the rumors of PLAN top brass being dominated by proponents of carrier aviation.

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## english_man

@wulff 

I don't think its a case of the Chinese top naval brass ignoring the sub-service fleet, as they do have a pretty decent non nuclear submarine fleet............but probably that out of all the high tech hurdles to overcome, getting a first class nuclear sub design correct, has has been the hardest to overcome. I suspect the Chinese Navy have got to the point now where they don't want to build a few subs quickly which turn out to be mediocre, but have spent the recent years in making sure the design of the next class of nuclear submarine is going to be very good, and hence can be built eventually in a decent number to satisfy the Navy.
Anyway, i would hazard a guess they have a good design now, otherwise they wouldn't of built this new submarine construction facility?............as they say all good things come to those who wait!

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## LKJ86

wulff said:


> That last post is exactly why I said the PLAN appears to be investing the least in its subsurface force. Since 2002-03 the ships they have inducted/are building:
> 
> 6 055 (at least 8 planned)
> 6 052C
> 19 052D (26 planned) (some say 40)
> 
> 2 054
> 30 054A
> 24 054B planned (likely)
> 
> 6 071 (likely more to come)
> 2 075 under construction (at least 4 planned)
> 2 aircraft carriers (3rd being built)
> 
> That is 100+ blue water ships that will join the fleet by ~2025. I'm leaving out the 46 or so 056s and the 13-14 replenishment ships they have built as well.
> 
> On the other hand, when it comes to SSNs, the PLAN has hardly got 5 (or maybe 6 or 7 max):
> 2 093
> 2 093 with the modified sail (those are the ones seen in the recent fleet review)
> 1 093B with the VLS hump (the one that surfaced off the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands in January)
> 
> 
> That is 5 confirmed (correct me here) compared to the 50+ the USN has. This is a massive disparity in numbers (notwithstanding the huge qualitative advantage the USN has over the PLAN in terms of technology, and in trained crews).
> 
> 5 boats in service for a class that was first launched way back in 2002.
> 
> The next-gen submarine (095 class) will not be launched till 2020 at the very least with commissioning to be in 2022 or even later. From what we have heard, only 8 boats planned to be built by 2030.
> 
> I suspect this situation has some relation to the rumors of PLAN top brass being dominated by proponents of carrier aviation.


Just be patient, and you will be shocked in the near future.


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## Figaro

Dante80 said:


> The Soviet Union did not really have a "global projection" strategic mandate. Thus, they really did no mistake. PLAN also does not have a global projection strategic mandate. The far seas fleet (when it will be commissioned as such) is going to work on the africa<->asia trade route line.
> 
> PLAN needs (and has under development) a pretty substantial submarine and ASW program for four main reasons.
> 
> 1. A nuanced, dependable and substantial second strike capability against counterforce decapitation strikes, as part of the Nuclear Triad.
> 2. The ability to guard against point 1.
> 3. The ability to achieve naval supremacy inside the second island chain (which is a difficult theater for PLANs SS and SSG fleet).
> 4. The capability of countering USNs extensive and substantial SSN program and doctrine of operations.


Of course the PLAN does have a global projection mandate. That’s why they’re building enormous offensive carrier battle groups. The naval doctrines if the USSR and PLAN are completely different. Of course, the submarine is still extremely important to the PLAN ... the new head of PLAN procurement is a submariner.



wulff said:


> That last post is exactly why I said the PLAN appears to be investing the least in its subsurface force. Since 2002-03 the ships they have inducted/are building:
> 
> 6 055 (at least 8 planned)
> 6 052C
> 19 052D (26 planned) (some say 40)
> 
> 2 054
> 30 054A
> 24 054B planned (likely)
> 
> 6 071 (likely more to come)
> 2 075 under construction (at least 4 planned)
> 2 aircraft carriers (3rd being built)
> 
> That is 100+ blue water ships that will join the fleet by ~2025. I'm leaving out the 46 or so 056s and the 13-14 replenishment ships they have built as well.
> 
> On the other hand, when it comes to SSNs, the PLAN has hardly got 5 (or maybe 6 or 7 max):
> 2 093
> 2 093 with the modified sail (those are the ones seen in the recent fleet review)
> 1 093B with the VLS hump (the one that surfaced off the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands in January)
> 
> 
> That is 5 confirmed (correct me here) compared to the 50+ the USN has. This is a massive disparity in numbers (notwithstanding the huge qualitative advantage the USN has over the PLAN in terms of technology, and in trained crews).
> 
> 5 boats in service for a class that was first launched way back in 2002.
> 
> The next-gen submarine (095 class) will not be launched till 2020 at the very least with commissioning to be in 2022 or even later. From what we have heard, only 8 boats planned to be built by 2030.
> 
> I suspect this situation has some relation to the rumors of PLAN top brass being dominated by proponents of carrier aviation.


First, we don’t have any accurate numbers of the 093 or 094 at all ... so simply using the guesses of PLAN enthuasists is not a good gauge of the nuclear fleet. Regarding the USN having 50+ nuclear subs, that is its global force. Only a certain portion can be allocated to deter or fight China ... and regarding the supposed “huge advantage”, we also don’t know that. Western analysts base their Chinese nuke sub estimations/technology level off reports from the mid 2000s. Surely, the PLAN has not been sitting idle for almost 15 years now. If you want more up to date info, I suggest reading Chinese academic journals on developments such as rim-drives.


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## wulff

Figaro said:


> Of course the PLAN does have a global projection mandate. That’s why they’re building enormous offensive carrier battle groups. The naval doctrines if the USSR and PLAN are completely different. Of course, the submarine is still extremely important to the PLAN ... the new head of PLAN procurement is a submariner.
> 
> 
> First, we don’t have any accurate numbers of the 093 or 094 at all ... so simply using the guesses of PLAN enthuasists is not a good gauge of the nuclear fleet. Regarding the USN having 50+ nuclear subs, that is its global force. Only a certain portion can be allocated to deter or fight China ... and regarding the supposed “huge advantage”, we also don’t know that. Western analysts base their Chinese nuke sub estimations/technology level off reports from the mid 2000s. Surely, the PLAN has not been sitting idle for almost 15 years now. If you want more up to date info, I suggest reading Chinese academic journals on developments such as rim-drives.



We dont have exact figures, but we do have rough numbers. There are 4-5 94s and 5-7 093s around. The 095 has not been launched. The PLAN may have built an extra sub or two, but nobody is really expecting a dozen subs popping up with the PLAN that nobody noticed. You can't really hide a submarine launch from satelites, nor can you hide one that is pierside. The significant number disparity will remain even so. There is nothing to stop the US from moving all their CBGs or subs against China in a war.


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## Figaro

wulff said:


> We dont have exact figures, but we do have rough numbers. There are 4-5 94s and 5-7 093s around. The 095 has not been launched. The PLAN may have built an extra sub or two, but nobody is really expecting a dozen subs popping up with the PLAN that nobody noticed. You can't really hide a submarine launch from satelites, nor can you hide one that is pierside. The significant number disparity will remain even so. There is nothing to stop the US from moving all their CBGs or subs against China in a war.


Once again, speculation is just speculation. Yes, there is a significant disparity ... the USN is a global force while the PLAN (for now) is regional. But I'm almost certain the numerical and certainly technological disparity is not as great as some may claim. Just because the surface fleet development is more dramatic does not represent neglect for the underwater force. Most analysis on the 093 and 094 rely on backwater early 2000s reporting that don't even account for modified variants. As LKJ already said, the dev of PLAN nuclear subs are very secretive, especially when compared to that of surface combatants. Not having many images or reports is usual ... the PLAN values its undersea fleet more than you think.


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## 星海军事

wulff said:


> We dont have exact figures, but we do have rough numbers. There are 4-5 94s and 5-7 093s around. The 095 has not been launched.





Figaro said:


> Once again, speculation is just speculation. Yes, there is a significant disparity ... the USN is a global force while the PLAN (for now) is regional. But I'm almost certain the numerical and certainly technological disparity is not as great as some may claim. Just because the surface fleet development is more dramatic does not represent neglect for the underwater force. Most analysis on the 093 and 094 rely on backwater early 2000s reporting that don't even account for modified variants. As LKJ already said, the dev of PLAN nuclear subs are very secretive, especially when compared to that of surface combatants. Not having many images or reports is usual ... the PLAN values its undersea fleet more than you think.





> Since 2002, the PLAN has constructed ten nuclear submarines—two SHANG I-class SSNs (Type 093), four SHANG II-class SSNs (Type 093A), and four JIN-class SSBNs (Type 094)
> -- Military and Security Developments Involving the People’s Republic of China 2017​



Seems *wulff *gives us a pretty decent guess.

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## Figaro

星海军事 said:


> Seems *wulff *gives us a pretty decent guess.


Maybe. But it is only a guess. And didn't we have an official report of a new kind of modified 093 that has been delivered recently? Even so, Wulff keeps insisting on comparing the PLAN nuclear sub number to that of the entire USN, which is ridiculous. The USN can only allocate so many nuclear submarines to counter China ... especially accounting for the tensions with Russia. That numerical gap, while certainly large, is not as exaggerated as Wulff claims, and certainly does not show the PLAN's neglect of their nuclear submarine fleet (which his primary argument).


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## 星海军事

Figaro said:


> And didn't we have an official report of a new kind of modified 093 that has been delivered recently?



Really? Could you please enlighten me...


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## Akasa

星海军事 said:


> Really? Could you please enlighten me...



https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/chinese-navy-gets-new-nuclear-submarine-1753318


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## 星海军事

Akasa said:


> https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/chinese-navy-gets-new-nuclear-submarine-1753318





> The submarine was built at the Dalian shipyard



Isn't this a totally made up story though?

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## Akasa

星海军事 said:


> Isn't this a totally made up story though?



It was first reported by an official news channel, but it's suspected to be related to the Type 09IIIB rather than the Type 09V that everybody had initially suspected.

http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2017-09/21/content_7764453.htm

So, as of now, the PLAN has three variants of the Type 09III: the original 09III version, the Type 09IIIA (shown in the parade), and the Type 09IIIB with VLS.

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## samsara

Guys, please talk the sub things in its dedicated thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chinas-submarine-fleet-evolution-news.302638/page-45

It is not cool to open 052D thread only to read sub talks.

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## wulff

I will reply in the sub thread later. Could a mod please move the offtopic posts to the correct thread. Thanks

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## LKJ86



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## english_man

A question for members here.....as has been stated the newer 052D's will have an extended flight deck, and maybe some other improvements, but from what boat number in the class are these improvements being made to?...........and i presume that these vessels will still be called the 052D and not 052E, is that correct?


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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 470110







https://m.weibo.cn/5482578449/4234122937214691

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 470266
> View attachment 470267


Type 052D DDG Nanjing hull# 155 is commissioned.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/990653463213301760

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## lcloo

english_man said:


> A question for members here.....as has been stated the newer 052D's will have an extended flight deck, and maybe some other improvements, but from what boat number in the class are these improvements being made to?...........and i presume that these vessels will still be called the 052D and not 052E, is that correct?


Pending official disclosure, we may call it 052D1 (as in 053H2 frigate) for our own identification purpose. The changes is too small to call it 052E.

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## sheik

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 470434
> 
> https://m.weibo.cn/5482578449/4234122937214691





LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 470434
> 
> https://m.weibo.cn/5482578449/4234122937214691



I like the original design (first one) of the emblem for 155 much better!

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## Beast

That means nine Type 052D destroyer already put into service?

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 470434
> 
> https://m.weibo.cn/5482578449/4234122937214691

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## samsara

Beast said:


> That means nine Type 052D destroyer already put into service?


Eight units in service according to Wikipedia (ZH). Guiyang #119 is said to arrive in the middle of 2018. Let's see its accuracy then 
https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/052D型导弹驱逐舰


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## cirr

DDG “*Hohehot*"

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## samsara

cirr said:


> DDG “*Hohehot*"
> 
> View attachment 470904


Thanks for the pic of this ship here, I think the very first one here 

Btw the common English name for the capital city of the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region (provincial level) is HOHHOT 呼和浩特. Been there last summer.

For a moment I get confused what's the DDG Type  Until I see I'm in the 052D thread  LOL

Strange on how Wikipedia (ZH) on 052D has completely missed this Hohhot in its full ship list?? So some ship name there is incorrect  And it lists the coming ship name Qiqihar 齐齐哈尔, which is the 2nd largest city in Heilongjiang. Of course it will be an incorrect naming for a ship of this class :-> LOL

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## 星海军事

samsara said:


> Strange on how Wikipedia (ZH) on 052D has completely missed this Hohhot in its full ship list?? So some ship name there is incorrect  And it lists the coming ship name Qiqihar 齐齐哈尔, which is the 2nd largest city in Heilongjiang. Of course it will be an incorrect naming for a ship of this class :-> LOL





> 6月26日，“七一”前夕，我国海军又一艘新型导弹驱逐舰在中船重工大船集团二号船台成功下水。中船重工党组书记、董事长胡问鸣亲临现场为新舰砍缆并讲话，海军驱逐舰某支队领导、齐齐哈尔市委书记孙珅等共同见证。
> 
> https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/LXD81vrtGH80Pup9ymKvsQ


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## samsara

Let's see the realization then...  because so far all the 052D ships are named after the capital cities of provinces, except Xiamen, which is one of the first four cities designated as SEZ. Nonetheless one of 052D namelist in wiki (zh) is wrong since it's taken over by Hohhot, which is not in that list.

.


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## 星海军事

samsara said:


> Let's see the realization then...  because so far all the 052D ships are named after the capital cities of provinces, except Xiamen, which is one of the first four cities designated as SEZ. Nonetheless one of 052D namelist in wiki (zh) is wrong since it's taken over by Hohhot, which is not in that list.
> 
> 
> .



Why take second-hand information from Wikipedia so seriously while looking down upon those first-hand sources?

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## LKJ86



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## samsara

星海军事 said:


> Why take second-hand information from Wikipedia so seriously while looking down upon those first-hand sources?


Thanks for the link. On the contrary to what you might have thought!  I just missed to read the link in my immediate preceding post.

Now consolidating the info, it should be DDG 052D Hohhot with hull no. 121, provided the wiki (zh) doesn't make another mistake 






See, the wiki(zh) page put the Hohhot (here mentioned as Qiqihar, look at the water touchdown/launch date) to be expected to be commissioned in around H1 2020.. what a huge miss!! Further this ship is categorized as the 2nd batch.

I had to open my comp to prepare this collaged screenshot, no way from smartphone that I'm using for browsing here

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## samsara

The 10th (?) destroyer of Type 052D, in arrangement in Shanghai.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/991328289594589186
In Shanghai???


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## LKJ86

April, 2018






















http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2018-05/03/content_8022241.htm

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## samsara

samsara said:


> Thanks for the link. On the contrary to what you might have thought!  I just missed to read the link in my immediate preceding post.
> 
> Now consolidating the info, it should be DDG 052D Hohhot with hull no. 121, provided the wiki (zh) doesn't make another mistake
> 
> View attachment 471022
> 
> 
> See, the wiki(zh) page put the Hohhot (here mentioned as Qiqihar, look at the water touchdown/launch date) to be expected to be commissioned in around H1 2020.. what a huge miss!! Further this ship is categorized as the 2nd batch.
> 
> I had to open my comp to prepare this collaged screenshot, no way from smartphone that I'm using for browsing here


The wiki(zh) page on 052D was updated today (03 May), put the name of *Hohhot with hull no. 161 at JNCX* with no info on date columns (list#14), Qiqihar remains at list#13.


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## lcloo

A small oil tanker was berthed along side the Type 052D #1 (Dalian) (DDG-119 Guiyang?). Looks like Fuel oil were being transferred to the destroyer. It should be expected to leave the pier soon for delivery to PLAN.

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## LKJ86

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/RPo-jVaDy-zFG0Zy-QHgyw

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

052C/D

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Tsubodai

The VLS on the 055 are 9 meters long by .85 meter in diameter, correct?
That allows for a very large missile. I was looking at China's ballistic missiles and the DF-11A is 8.5 meters long by .8 meters in diameter. What if the 055 was armed with ship-borne anti-ship ballistic missile based on the DF-11A and using the guidance and targeting developed for the DF 21? An 825 km range ballistic missile with a warhead of 500 kg coming in at high speed would be deadly! Just a thought.

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## antonius123

Tsubodai said:


> The VLS on the 055 are 9 meters long by .85 meter in diameter, correct?
> That allows for a very large missile. I was looking at China's ballistic missiles and the DF-11A is 8.5 meters long by .8 meters in diameter. What if the 055 was armed with ship-borne anti-ship ballistic missile based on the DF-11A and using the guidance and targeting developed for the DF 21? An 825 km range ballistic missile with a warhead of 500 kg coming in at high speed would be deadly! Just a thought.




I think YJ-18 with approximately similar range, but supersonic sea skimming will be more deadly, and Type 055 can have them.


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## LKJ86

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/QTogfJhmwiLKRfraEy1_DA

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/1740979351/4257640349343236

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## LKJ86

呼和浩特舰 hull 161

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## LKJ86



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## lcloo

Chinese Internet widely circulates that the first new type 052DG is ready to be launched soon. 052DG is an improved variant of 052D with various upgrades, including a lengthened helicopter landing deck. The letter "G" or gai 改 in Chinese means "Improve".

Bracketed in red is very likely the new type 052DG. This photo was taken many months ago (around April or May this year).

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## LKJ86

lcloo said:


> Chinese Internet widely circulates that the first new type 052DG is ready to be launched soon. 052DG is an improved variant of 052D with various upgrades, including a lengthened helicopter landing deck. The letter "G" or gai 改 in Chinese means "Improve".
> 
> Bracketed in red is very likely the new type 052DG. This photo was taken many months ago.
> View attachment 484980

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## LKJ86

It has launched in 2018.7.7

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

JN satellite image10.07.2018






055s, 052Ds, "052DGs"

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## ILC

So most likely 052DG not yet 052E?

If it will have integrated mast I believe it could be 052E, but we will see


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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/1740979351/4260869213396324

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

O52DL #1(launched on 29.06.2018)






with changes in length, radar, electronic system, weapons system etc. 

052DL #2 is due for launch by the end of this month.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## yusheng



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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/5293335778/4266881806579713

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## cirr



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/1740979351/4270504031830383

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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/6111786953/4274762056145892

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/5293335778/4280788189002669

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## cirr

*DDG 161 “Hohhot”*

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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/5293335778/4283549555070029

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## cirr

There are at least 13 052DGs under various stages of construction at the two shipyards in Shanghai and Dalian.

As for the 2nd batch of 055s, the words are that ......

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/5075579048/4296857837926551

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## samsara

From the tweet of Henri Kenhmann (East Pendulum) on 25 Oct 2018 08:22 pm:

_“The Russian flotilla, composed of the destroyer Admiral Panteleyev and the cruiser Varyag, left Qingdao Port today (25 Oct) after a 5-day stopover. The crew of the Chinese Type 052D DDG 117 Xining took charge of the reception.”_
















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1055449469653680128

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## cirr

“052DL”X2

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## SME11B

What kind of radar performance do these chinese ships have?


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## Daniel808

SME11B said:


> What kind of radar performance do these chinese ships have?



*Type 346 Radar*


> _Description: The Type 346 is a multi-functional active phased array radar developed to fit into the Chinese Navy destroyers equipped with advanced area air defense capability such as Type 052C and Type 052D classes. The radar system is intended to detect and track several hundreds of airborne targets such as fast jets and helicopters as well as surface threats such as fast speed boats and sea-skimming anti-ship missiles. The Chinese Type 346 is similar to the US Navy's SPY-1 active phased array radar mounted on AEGIS-equipped destroyers and cruisers. The Type 346 radar system entered service in 2004 onboard the lead ship of the Type 052C class which was the first boat equipped with the Chinese AEGIS.
> 
> The Type 346B is an improved version of the Type 346 radar systems intended to outfit the Type 055 destroyer to be commissioned by 2020. The Type 346A radar is far more powerful and is larger in size than its predecessor with presumably longer detection range as well as improved performance against a wide range of potential threats. The Type 346B radar features active phased array technology, also known as Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA), for improved performance with the ability to spot small and stealth targets while guiding surface-to-air missiles (SAM). *The radar system uses eight fixed faced antennas operating in S/C-band and X-band with a maximum detection range of 500-to-600 kilometers. *The radar design has been optimized for having low probability of intercept by enemy sensor systems. All in, the Type 346B dual-band radar system can be compared with the DDG 1000 SPY-3 and DDG 51 Flight III SPY-6 radar systems._



http://www.deagel.com/Sensor-Systems/Type-346B_a002976002.aspx

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## SME11B

Daniel808 said:


> *Type 346 Radar*
> 
> 
> http://www.deagel.com/Sensor-Systems/Type-346B_a002976002.aspx


This is strange, I was under the impression that SPY/1D can detect a vlo stealth cruise missile at about 165km, a ballistic missile warhead target or about rcs .3 m2 at about 310km and a fighter sized target at around 740km. Spy-6 is said to be 35 times more sensitive and be able to detect a target half the rcs at twice the range as spy-1D. If all that is true how would type 346B be comparable? Am I the only one who finds that an odd statement? And what is type-346B detecting at 600km? A fighter? A b-52?


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## Daniel808

SME11B said:


> This is strange, I was under the impression that SPY/1D can detect a vlo stealth cruise missile at about 165km, a ballistic missile warhead target or about rcs .3 m2 at about 310km and a fighter sized target at around 740km. Spy-6 is said to be 35 times more sensitive and be able to detect a target half the rcs at twice the range as spy-1D. If all that is true how would type 346B be comparable? Am I the only one who finds that an odd statement? And what is type-346B detecting at 600km? A fighter? A b-52?



China will never disclose such sensitive information only for public consumption.

What I found, that Type 346B Radar onboard Type 055 Heavy Destroyer already using Gallium Nitride (GaN) Technology and have much larger diameter than predecessor variant (346A Radar).

_








Last but not least, some more information on the Type 055's Type 346B AESA radar emerged. According to this source, the Type 055 is equipped with advanced active phased array radar with a larger diameter than the Type 346A radar fitted aboard the Type 052C class. One Type 346B radar array is larger than the 4.3x4.3 meter of the Type 346A arrays. *The transmitter and receiver unit is also using the latest Chinese gallium nitride (GaN) technology. *Finally this new radar system is reportedly capable of fire control as well.

Click to expand...

__
http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...suites-aboard-china-s-type-055-destroyer.html_

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## SME11B

Daniel808 said:


> China will never disclose such sensitive information only for public consumption.
> 
> What I found, that Type 346B Radar onboard Type 055 Heavy Destroyer already using Gallium Nitride (GaN) Technology and have much larger diameter than predecessor variant (346A Radar).
> 
> 
> _
> http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...suites-aboard-china-s-type-055-destroyer.html_


I would be surprised if it achieved spy-1D performance.


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## Daniel808

SME11B said:


> I would be surprised if it achieved spy-1D performance.



That's your opinion.

But in my opinion, this 346B Radar is much much better than spy-1d.
346B Radar already using Latest GaN Technology meanwhile spy-1d using 80s old tehcnology not using GaN at all.

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## rcrmj

SME11B said:


> I would be surprised if it achieved spy-1D performance.


it can lock dozens small RCS targets at the range of 2XXkms, and can guide 4X missiles at one go, in other words it has umlimited fire-control channels, unlike SPY radar systems, its fire-control channels are limited to the number of fire-control radars it has````and also it hosts way more functions than SPY radars

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## LKJ86

rcrmj said:


> it can lock dozens small RCS targets at the range of 2XXkms, and can guide 4X missiles at one go, in other words it has umlimited fire-control channels, unlike SPY radar systems, its fire-control channels are limited to the number of fire-control radars it has````and also it hosts way more functions than SPY radars


The informations isn't disclosed. People would choose to believe what he believes.
You shouldn't care the meaningless questions.

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## Beast

@Deino Please clear up the mess on this thread.

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## LKJ86



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## SME11B

Daniel808 said:


> That's your opinion.
> 
> But in my opinion, this 346B Radar is much much better than spy-1d.
> 346B Radar already using Latest GaN Technology meanwhile spy-1d using 80s old tehcnology not using GaN at all.


GaN doesn't automatically equal better performance, that's why I added specs, you just gave your opinion. And you really think Spy-1d is still 80 tech? There's a reason it's called spy-1D the D at the end makes a big difference. The specs I would given suggest the chinese radar is still behind but it's a lot better than their older ones. Either my assessment is correct or the specs given or wrong. We aren't given many details but if they aren't being tight lipped and they are new the the industry it's probably partly for security reasons and also they don't want to look weak.



Beast said:


> @Deino Please clear up the mess on this thread.


What mess?


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## cirr

DDG 131 "*Taiyuan*" commissioned 






Type 052Ds commissioned so far this year: DDG 118, DDG 119, DDG 131, DDG 155 and DDG 161

Launch of four "052DLs" scheduled over the next couple of months.

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## Beast

cirr said:


> DDG 131 "*Taiyuan*" commissioned
> 
> View attachment 523041
> 
> 
> Type 052Ds commissioned so far this year: DDG 118, DDG 119, DDG 131, DDG 155 and DDG 161
> 
> Launch of four "052DLs" scheduled over the next couple of months.


11 Type052D in service....

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

Modules of 052D #24？

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## Han Patriot

cirr said:


> DDG 131 "*Taiyuan*" commissioned
> 
> View attachment 523041
> 
> 
> Type 052Ds commissioned so far this year: DDG 118, DDG 119, DDG 131, DDG 155 and DDG 161
> 
> Launch of four "052DLs" scheduled over the next couple of months.


Wow we are churning out destroyers like cakes. I think we can make a new IOR fleet in 5 years easily. Just station some in Gwadar and Djibouti, pincer move to pressure the Indians in case they try to be funny.

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

Han Patriot said:


> Wow we are churning out destroyers like cakes. I think we can make a new IOR fleet in 5 years easily. Just station some in Gwadar and Djibouti, pincer move to pressure the Indians in case they try to be funny.



The 16th 052D(3rd "052DL") launched on 18/12/2018 at JN

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Beast

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 530847
> View attachment 530848
> View attachment 530849
> View attachment 530850


Is that a cruise missile?

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## LKJ86

Beast said:


> Is that a cruise missile?


YJ-18

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

The video of Type 052D DDG:
https://m.weibo.cn/2617677157/4326934844759201

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Hull 161 in service

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## ZeEa5KPul

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 533335


What's that tube just underneath the radar? I noticed that some 052Ds don't have it.


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Hull 119

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## LKJ86



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

I guess Type 052D is more of a heavy frigate class once Type 055 is inducted.


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Nasr

There were some reports emerging, of Type-052E Class Destroyers being designed, which shall commence production once the Type-052D Class Destroyer production is completed. Which raises the question, as to how many Type-052Ds are planned and what is Type-052Es role be. Would it be similar to the role Type-052Ds play? Would the perform parallel roles, but 052Es would have additional, or new weapons tech they would bring to the battlefield?

How true is this and could any Chinese or Pakistani members (following PLAN) comment on this, please.


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Brainsucker

Nasr said:


> There were some reports emerging, of Type-052E Class Destroyers being designed, which shall commence production once the Type-052D Class Destroyer production is completed. Which raises the question, as to how many Type-052Ds are planned and what is Type-052Es role be. Would it be similar to the role Type-052Ds play? Would the perform parallel roles, but 052Es would have additional, or new weapons tech they would bring to the battlefield?
> 
> How true is this and could any Chinese or Pakistani members (following PLAN) comment on this, please.



But what new abilities are that 052E offer that 052D doesn't has?


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## LKJ86



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## Beast

Brainsucker said:


> But what new abilities are that 052E offer that 052D doesn't has?


Larger landing spot with lengthen space and newer radar.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

The video of Hull 161:
https://m.weibo.cn/1376628072/4338974451735397

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## Figaro

Brainsucker said:


> But what new abilities are that 052E offer that 052D doesn't has?


My question is why a 052E is necessary when there is the 055. Wouldnt making a new class of 052 destroyers be costly and resource extensive? Especially since the 052 series is no longer the premier destroyer fleet in the PLAN.


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## LKJ86



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## Brainsucker

Figaro said:


> My question is why a 052E is necessary when there is the 055. Wouldnt making a new class of 052 destroyers be costly and resource extensive? Especially since the 052 series is no longer the premier destroyer fleet in the PLAN.



Maybe the question is more about : How many Type 055 that PLAN can procure. And how far that type 052E can cover the lack of 055 quantity.


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## Dante80

Figaro said:


> My question is why a 052E is necessary when there is the 055. Wouldnt making a new class of 052 destroyers be costly and resource extensive? Especially since the 052 series is no longer the premier destroyer fleet in the PLAN.



Type 055 is not considered as a strict replacement/successor class for 052D. At least, that is what I'm getting from this so far.


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## cirr

DDG "*Nanning*"(the 17th 052D) will be launched at JN before the end of March，2018．

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Hull 131

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## lcloo

Latest 052D PLANS Guiyang DDG 119 commissioned on 2019 Feb 22nd. Also the 30th (and last) 054A FFG 542.
DDG 119 is the 10th type 052D entering PLAN service.

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## english_man

Actually, Destroyer Guiyang DDG 119 is the *11th* in class to be entered into active service. 10 052D vessels were already in service prior to Guiyang! 

Its interesting to note that Guiyang is the first 052D to be built at Dalian, to be delivered to the Chinese Navy. Thing is though its taken Dalian years to finish off their first 052D, as Guiyang was launched in November 2015......a long 3+ years to outfit and test the ship

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## lcloo

english_man said:


> Actually, Destroyer Guiyang DDG 119 is the *11th* in class to be entered into active service. 10 052D vessels were already in service prior to Guiyang!
> 
> Its interesting to note that Guiyang is the first 052D to be built at Dalian, to be delivered to the Chinese Navy. Thing is though its taken Dalian years to finish off their first 052D, as Guiyang was launched in November 2015......a long 3+ years to outfit and test the ship



You are right it is the 11th 052D entering service.

Dalian Shipyard is slow in out-fitting and sea trial, I wonder if that is due to the methodology that they practice. Shanghai JNCX shipyard is more innovative and faster in completing same class of ships (052D and 055).

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

The 17th 052D("*Nanning*") was launched at JN on 23.02.2019.

The 18th, also at JN, is due for launch in a couple of months.

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## lcloo

cirr said:


> The 17th 052D("*Nanning*") was launched at JN on 23.02.2019.
> 
> The 18th, also at JN, is due for launch in a couple of months.



Six 052D launched/fitting out/sea trial, plus three 055 fitting out/sea trial.

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## cirr

lcloo said:


> Six 052D launched/fitting out/sea trial, plus three 055 fitting out/sea trial.



The 3rd 055 at JN will be launched before the end of H1 2019.


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## aziqbal

cirr said:


> The 3rd 055 at JN will be launched before the end of H1 2018.



Q1 2019?


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## cirr

aziqbal said:


> Q1 2019?



Sorry, Q2 2019.


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## yusheng

An unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) takes off from the guided-missile destroyer Lanzhou (Hull 170) during a training exercise in late February, 2019. A destroyer flotilla composed of several guided-missile destroyers including Changsha (Hull 173) and Lanzhou (Hull 170) with the navy under the PLA Southern Theater Command recently conducted a three-day maritime training exercise in waters of the South China Sea. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Yu Lin)

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## cirr

cirr said:


> The 17th 052D("*Nanning*") was launched at JN on 23.02.2019.
> 
> The 18th, also at JN, is due for launch in a couple of months.

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## LKJ86



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

yusheng said:


> An unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) takes off from the guided-missile destroyer Lanzhou (Hull 170) during a training exercise in late February, 2019. A destroyer flotilla composed of several guided-missile destroyers including Changsha (Hull 173) and Lanzhou (Hull 170) with the navy under the PLA Southern Theater Command recently conducted a three-day maritime training exercise in waters of the South China Sea. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Yu Lin)
> View attachment 542217



Could be a lethal attack drone in near future.


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## Deino

undertakerwwefan said:


> Could be a lethal attack drone in near future.




Nope ... to carry a decent load as a "lethal attack drone" it is much too small, too light and to less capable.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Deino said:


> Nope ... to carry a decent load as a "lethal attack drone" it is much too small, too light and to less capable.
> 
> View attachment 544257



It could be a suicide drone.


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## LKJ86



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## Deino

undertakerwwefan said:


> It could be a suicide drone.




And how much damage could a 40kg UAV with a payload of 6kg do??


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## HRK

What is this highlighted slanted structure ....??

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## LKJ86

HRK said:


> What is this highlighted slanted structure ....??
> View attachment 546870


air inlet

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## lcloo

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 552061


Type 037 III sub chaser look alike!!!  There is no justice in optical illusion.


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## LKJ86

lcloo said:


> Type 037 III sub chaser look alike!!!  There is no justice in optical illusion.


What about this one:

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## lcloo

LKJ86 said:


> What about this one:
> View attachment 552074


It might still easily be mistaken as a missile boat /patrol boat rather than a DDG to untrained eyes, especially in bad weather and dim light. (the big 130mm gun turret is the culprit causing the optical illusion [similar to the opposite optical illusion of J20's size caused by the small canted tails)).

The advantage of this optical illusion is that the enemy would have false impression of a lesser threat than actual, thus lower their alertness.

And the radar return does not help either because the stealth design will make 052D look like a small fishing boat on radar screen.

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## Bussard Ramjet

Just an amateur question here, hope someone helps me here. 

How many Type 52D have been launched, and how many commissioned? 

How do they compare with Arleigh Burke class?


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## LKJ86

lcloo said:


> It might still easily be mistaken as a missile boat /patrol boat rather than a DDG to untrained eyes, especially in bad weather and dim light. (the big 130mm gun turret is the culprit causing the optical illusion [similar to the opposite optical illusion of J20's size caused by the small canted tails)).
> 
> The advantage of this optical illusion is that the enemy would have false impression of a lesser threat than actual, thus lower their alertness.
> 
> And the radar return does not help either because the stealth design will make 052D look like a small fishing boat on radar screen.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## aziqbal

What’s the consensus on the Type 052D run?


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

The launch of HHQ-9B SAM

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## Pakistani Fighter

Plz 


LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 553736
> View attachment 553737
> View attachment 553738
> View attachment 553739
> View attachment 553740
> View attachment 553741


Plz Give type 052D to Pakistan

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## cirr

The 18th Type 052D DDG was launched on 15/04/2019 at JN in Shanghai.

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

Starting with the 14th 052D, a new long-range early-warning radar will replace the old good Type 517B radar on the rear mast.

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## LKJ86

cirr said:


> Starting with the 14th 052D, a new long-range early-warning radar will replace the old good Type 517B radar on the rear mast.

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## clibra

lcloo said:


> It might still easily be mistaken as a missile boat /patrol boat rather than a DDG to untrained eyes, especially in bad weather and dim light. (the big 130mm gun turret is the culprit causing the optical illusion [similar to the opposite optical illusion of J20's size caused by the small canted tails)).
> 
> The advantage of this optical illusion is that the enemy would have false impression of a lesser threat than actual, thus lower their alertness.
> 
> And the radar return does not help either because the stealth design will make 052D look like a small fishing boat on radar screen.

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## LKJ86




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## LKJ86



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## cirr

Flyswatter


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## cirr

D19 and D20

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## LKJ86



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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 558100
> View attachment 558101


Just curious about the LAST picture, the two parts seem to have different VLS designs. The top one is the newer design, while the bottom is the older one ... is it correct?


----------



## LKJ86

samsara said:


> Just curious about the LAST picture, the two parts seem to have different VLS designs, I mean the covers. The top one is the newer design, while the bottom is the older one ... is it correct?


The top one is from Type 052C DDG, while the bottom one from Type 052D DDG.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 559058
> View attachment 559059
> View attachment 559060


TWO new Type 052D destroyers are launched in the Dalian Shipyard (2019-05-09). 

Edit: see below for the n-th ships.


----------



## cirr

samsara said:


> TWO new Type 052D destroyers are launched in the Dalian Shipyard (2019-05-09).
> 
> Are these the 25th and 26th editions of the 052D series?



the 19th and 20th.

but if you include 6 052Cs, the count becomes......

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## samsara

cirr said:


> the 19th and 20th.
> 
> but if you include 6 052Cs, the count becomes......


Because just on 07 May, Henri Kenhmann (East Pendulum) tweeted as follows:

_The difference between Type 052D (top) and Type 052C. The leading ships of these two destroyer classes were launched 9 years apart. When the Type 052C has only 6 copies, the 24th Series 052D has already *appeared*, and it's not ready to stop._







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1125770146365095936
*"appeared"*... means more "being made known"

My own bad interpretation or remembrance thus came out erroneously with the 25th & 26th

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 559091


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## aziqbal

Who has ruined the Wikipedia page on Type 052D???


----------



## english_man

aziqbal said:


> Who has ruined the Wikipedia page on Type 052D???



Having myself just looked at the 052D Wiki page, yes by the style of the layout, it appears the page has been ruined by the same person who previously ruined the 056 and 054A page. What has happened is that some muppet has taken it upon his or herself to personally modify these pages on Chinese naval shipbuilding, and they won't allow anyone else to add information, as they just delete any changes to the pages made by other people. Wiki in the past said they were trying to find the idiot who is messing up these pages, but it looks like the same person has reappeared and is messing about on Wiki again. This person needs to understand that Wiki is a global reference source for people to look up information, and its not their own private source for them to do what they want.
Anyway, if you want the upto date info on Chinese Naval shipbuilding, then go to the Chinese version of Wiki and use the translate feature. The Chinese Wiki is much better, and upto date, in general.

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## aziqbal

Thanks

Do you have links for the Chinese pages?

These pages were so accurate and I remember the Type 054A which was also messed up


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## english_man

aziqbal said:


> Thanks
> 
> Do you have links for the Chinese pages?
> 
> These pages were so accurate and I remember the Type 054A which was also messed up



On internet, select Google...........then type Chinese Wiki 054A............then you will find a link to the Chinese Wiki site!

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## cirr

Aerial picture dated 08/05/2019

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## LKJ86



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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 559091


Dalian to launch two *052DG*s tomorrow (2019.05.10) ~ Dafeng Cao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1126506611831271424

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## lcloo

Call them 052DL or 052DG..... Launched today.

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## cirr

The pair are DDG “*Tangshan*”and DDG “*Suzhou*”

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## LKJ86



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## cirr

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 559188
> View attachment 559189
> View attachment 559190
> View attachment 559191



It is time to look forward to the next launch from JN.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 559224
> View attachment 559225
> View attachment 559226
> View attachment 559228
> View attachment 559229
> View attachment 559230
> View attachment 559231
> 
> 
> View attachment 559234


Video: https://m.weibo.cn/2632236847/4370482403271543

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## LKJ86

Type 052D and Type 055

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## jaybird

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 562686



Very beautiful and artistic for a warship picture.  Although really no longer feeling any excitement
with Type 052D DDG now a days with so many of them around.

I'm currently only looking forward to news and rumors of 075, 003. But most anticipating wait
is still H-XX and JH-XX.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## lcloo

Dalian, 6X type 052D and type 052DG (DL) update.

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## aziqbal

lcloo said:


> Dalian, 6X type 052D and type 052DG (DL) update.
> 
> View attachment 565221



5 x Type 052DL not 6

The dockside modules are superstructures for the unit that is in the dock and not a new build

They are now ready to be lifted into place as they floated the DDG foward

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## lcloo

052DG #2 on sea trial.

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## JSCh



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## JSCh



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## LKJ86

Type 052D and Type 052C

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## lcloo

PLANS Chengdu, is commissioned today. This is the 12th type 052D destroyer in service.

Edit: correction, it is a ceremony for the ship's crew to be stationed onboard, not a commission ceremony. Anyhow, the actual commission ceremony won't be far.

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## lcloo

At JNCX (Jiangnan Changxing) shipyard. Photo update.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86




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## truthseeker2010

Will there be a successor to 052d? Perhaps 052E?


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## Figaro

truthseeker2010 said:


> Will there be a successor to 052d? Perhaps 052E?


There already exists an improved type 052D

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## truthseeker2010

Figaro said:


> There already exists an improved type 052D



Thats just lengthening for larger helicopter deck, nothing else.


----------



## zectech

Figaro said:


> There already exists an improved type 052D



I am waiting for the Ballistic Air Defense Missiles on the 055s and perhaps on the 052s. That would be the 052E. The ADS is the HQ-26.


----------



## Brainsucker

truthseeker2010 said:


> Thats just lengthening for larger helicopter deck, nothing else.



Lengthening a ship give you a lot of more space for better and bigger equipment. It give you more than just a helipad and a hangar.


----------



## truthseeker2010

Brainsucker said:


> Lengthening a ship give you a lot of more space for better and bigger equipment. It give you more than just a helipad and a hangar.



You wont called a new class for additional 3 meters


----------



## Brainsucker

truthseeker2010 said:


> You wont called a new class for additional 3 meters



But by having an additional 3 meters actually has already has put her into a different class to the previous 052D. Because she's no longer the same class as the previous 052D. Plus, the 052D has already has the best technology that China can have today. And the gap between China and US are also narrowed. So, when you have already have the best today, it is more and more difficult to leap forward again.

Plus, they have already have 055.

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## truthseeker2010

Brainsucker said:


> But by having an additional 3 meters actually has already has put her into a different class to the previous 052D. Because she's no longer the same class as the previous 052D. Plus, the 052D has already has the best technology that China can have today. And the gap between China and US are also narrowed. So, when you have already have the best today, it is more and more difficult to leap forward again.
> 
> Plus, they have already have 055.



I hope 52d radar is better than AMDR, plus r&d is a continous process.
Also burke has 96 cells vs 64 for 52d.


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## lcloo

Whether there will be a new class to replace type 052D or rather the latest variant 052DG is a bit premature. The first 052D was commissioned only 5 years ago, and the first 052DG is not yet in service. Construction of type 052DG or newer variants will continue to around 2024/2025.

052DG has lengthened stern helicopter deck, and new anti-stealth radar. There are some upgrade in sensors not readily visible on the outside.

If there is a class of successor to type 052DG, it will be a completely new design with larger displacement and new futuristic weapons (laser/rail gun), new sensors and new propulsion system ( all electric?), and probably appear around 2030.

Meanwhile type 055 will continue to be built, rumour has it that the orders from PLAN has increased to 12 ships, up from original 8 ships.

Personally, I would like to see a future PLAN fleet make up of >10,000 tons destroyers, >6,000 tons frigates and >2,500 tons corvettes, which mean there will be no new DDG in same weight class as type 052D. But that is just my personal opinion.

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## obj 705A

when ever analysts (both pro China & China haters) try to speculate on how the PLAN will look in the future, they always give extremely conservative estimates & significantly underesitimate the ambitions of the PLAN, for example around 6 year ago or so most people said that the PLAN will make do with around 12 type 052D DDGs within this decade but fast forward to 2019 & now there are 20 052Ds in the water & 4 more under construction, they always want to bet safe so when they look at the USN they say "no way the PLAN actually wants to match that", and to this day some people still think that frigates & those midget corvettes will forever remain the work horse of the PLAN, for them the idea that the PLAN will aquire a large enough number of DDGs so that the DDGs become the work horse of the PLAN is just unthinkable, but the thing is... guys we are already here, there are already 30 modern DDGs in the water (052C, 052D, 055), it will only take a maximum of 2 years for all those 30 DDGs to be in service and in the very near future the number of DDGs will exceed the number of FFGs & the gap will widen regardless of wether the production of FFGs will resume or not, so regardless of wether the PLAN continues to produce DDGs in the 7.5k ton & 10k ton simultaniously or just make do with having nothing but 055s one thing remains for sure.. in the near future the role of the FFG & the corvette as the work horse of the PLAN will fade in to irrelevance & the DDGs will fill that role, when I say DDGs will replace the FFGs as the "work horse" I mean that in the next 5 years the main enemy of those Somali pirates won't be the type 054A, 054B but it will be the type 052D & the 055.

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## LKJ86



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## waja2000

lcloo said:


> Whether there will be a new class to replace type 052D or rather the latest variant 052DG is a bit premature. The first 052D was commissioned only 5 years ago, and the first 052DG is not yet in service. Construction of type 052DG or newer variants will continue to around 2024/2025.



How you think 052E which alot rumors about it for next upgrade replace 052D ...
For me i think design new replace 054 class more urgent... best upgrade to around 5000 tons


----------



## lcloo

waja2000 said:


> How you think 052E which alot rumors about it for next upgrade replace 052D ...
> For me i think design new replace 054 class more urgent... best upgrade to around 5000 tons


Frigate building programme for PLAN is largely completed with 30 type 054A built. There is also large number of type 056/056A. In total there are nearly 100 type 054A and type 056/056A plus old 053s.

The next new generation frigate design most likely would appear just before the first type 054 is due to be retired, probably around 15 years from now, or 10 years from now at best. (The first type 054 entered service in 2005).

There are around 19 type 053H1/H1G/H3 frigates still in service but they will not be replaced by addition FFG orders as the present numbers of modern FFG/corvette are sufficient.

While no new next generation FFG is expected in about 10-15 years, new variants of destroyers with laser/rail guns will be built. Evolved improvements on the 052DG will continue, will these new ships (after 052DG) be called 052E is doubtful unless they change to all electric power propulsion, or if there is significant changes to warrant a new designation.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## clibra

truthseeker2010 said:


> Thats just lengthening for larger helicopter deck, nothing else.


Can't you see the new VHF anit-stealth RADAR ?


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @核子可乐真好喝 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via www.haohanfw.com

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## LKJ86

Via www.haohanfw.com

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## LKJ86

Via @_老年_ from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @热武器时代的爱情故事 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via www.top81cn.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @浙中指挥长 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 579820
> 
> Via @浙中指挥长 from Weibo










Via @浩汉-红鲨RedShark from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @浩汉-红鲨RedShark from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via navy.81.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @等海风 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @人民海军 from Weibo

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## bahadur999

PLAN 22nd type 052D DDG was launched today at Jiangnan shiyard

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## clibra

bahadur999 said:


> PLAN 22nd type 052D DDG was launched today at Jiangnan shiyard



poor 052D, a has-been web celebrity.

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## obj 705A

very weird, aside from east pendulum no other website mentioned the launch of the 22nd 052D, I get that it coincided on the same day of the launch of the 075 so it wont get the same attention, but for every single website to treat it as if it didn't happen... are they sleeping or did they just get bored of following 052D news because there already too many of them! just as how they don't report the launch of every single 056.

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## ChineseTiger1986

obj 705A said:


> very weird, aside from east pendulum no other website mentioned the launch of the 22nd 052D, I get that it coincided on the same day of the launch of the 075 so it wont get the same attention, but for every single website to treat it as if it didn't happen... are they sleeping or did they just get bored of following 052D news because there already too many of them! just as how they don't report the launch of every single 056.



True, the Type 052D has become the new Type 054A or even Type 056, it just doesn't get any more attention as a bombshell.

The Type 055 also doesn't get many attention anymore despite with the Type 055A around the corner, since the next bombshell for the surface vessel is going to be the Type 003.

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## LKJ86

Via @浩汉-hqy1228 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @NautilusFu_bilibili from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @浩汉防务-蓝海踏浪 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @央视军事报道 from Weixin

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## truthseeker2010

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> True, the Type 052D has become the new Type 054A or even Type 056, it just doesn't get any more attention as a bombshell.
> 
> The Type 055 also doesn't get many attention anymore despite with the Type 055A around the corner, since the next bombshell for the surface vessel is going to be the Type 003.



What are the expected improvements in 055a?

Plus will there be a follow on class of 052D?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

truthseeker2010 said:


> What are the expected improvements in 055a?
> 
> Plus will there be a follow on class of 052D?



The Type 055A looks like 190 meters according to the newest version of the GE. Maybe they have increased to 128 VLS units from the 112 VLS units of the original Type 055. Also, the railgun is rumored to be the main gun for the Type 055A.

The Type 052DL will have many units to follow up, and I don't think its successor is going to appear any time soon.

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## LKJ86

Via @现代舰船官方微博 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## Fsjal

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 583199


Wait a minute... ship on the left looks like a Japanese Abukuma-class.

I'm interested to know what the context of the picture is.


----------



## vi-va

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 583199


The left one is DE-233 Chikuma (Ominato)
@*Fsjal 

Chinese naval destroyer arrives in Japan for int'l fleet review
*

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## truthseeker2010

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 055A looks like 190 meters according to the newest version of the GE. Maybe they have increased to 128 VLS units from the 112 VLS units of the original Type 055. Also, the railgun is rumored to be the main gun for the Type 055A.
> 
> The Type 052DL will have many units to follow up, and I don't think its successor is going to appear any time soon.



Why not 052E, there is still roam for improvement to Arleigh burke level in terms of VLS cells. 

128 VLS with railgun will be a arsenal ship for PLAN.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

truthseeker2010 said:


> Why not 052E, there is still roam for improvement to Arleigh burke level in terms of VLS cells.
> 
> 128 VLS with railgun will be a arsenal ship for PLAN.



For now, there is no sign of the Type 052E.

They will still add a couple of more Type 052DL units.

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## LKJ86

Tokyo, Japan 




Via @飛·行GOGO from Weibo

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> Tokyo, Japan
> View attachment 583837
> 
> Via @飛·行GOGO from Weibo
















Via @寰亚SYHP from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @CrusDesGru-1 from Weibo

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## obj 705A



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @欠雷的汤包要和秋津洲抢二式大艇 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via navy.81.cn

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----------



## obj 705A

videos from Japan, note the third video has no type 052D in it only Japanese warships but any way no harm is done in sharing it & in a way it is related since these ships were part of the same parade that the 052D was supposed to take part in:-

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## LKJ86

Via www.top81cn.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @浩汉防务-蓝海踏浪 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via www.haohanfw.com

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## LKJ86

Via @捣蛋就对 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via navy.81.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @_老年_ from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @龙龑之 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @军报记者 from Weibo








Via @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @从小就黑 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 588419
> 
> Via @从小就黑 from Weibo







Via @捣蛋就对 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @HSH发烧友网 from Weixin

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## Beast

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 588647
> 
> Via @HSH发烧友网 from Weixin


Is the pennant number PS off? With PLAN ensign on, it shall be a commission ship.


----------



## LKJ86

Beast said:


> Is the pennant number PS off? With PLAN ensign on, it shall be a commission ship.


I don't think it is in service already.


----------



## Beast

LKJ86 said:


> I don't think it is in service already.


Maybe it will be painted with pennant number and commission soon. With ensign on and berth at naval base instead of shipyard. A sign of in service very soon.


----------



## LKJ86

Beast said:


> Maybe it will be painted with pennant number and commission soon. With ensign on and berth at naval base instead of shipyard. A sign of in service very soon.


Can you find the mock-up of Z-9?

It is a so-called Type 052DG DDG.


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## LKJ86

Via CJDBY


----------



## LKJ86

Via @热武器时代的爱情 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @燳暘 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @Graywhale_921 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

December 23, 2019
















Via @央广军事 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @热武器时代的爱情 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

December 27, 2019







Via @热武器时代的爱情 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via www.wenweipo.com

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## JSCh

> @龙龑之
> 
> 
> 2月23日，第17艘052D型驱逐舰南宁舰在江南造船厂下水；
> 4月16日，第18艘052D型驱逐舰淮南舰在江南造船厂下水；
> 5月10日，第19、20艘052D型驱逐舰在大连造船厂下水；
> 8月28日，第21艘052D型驱逐舰在江南造船厂下水；
> 9月12日，第5艘055型驱逐舰大连舰在江南造船厂下水；
> 9月26日，第22艘052D型驱逐舰在江南造船厂下水；
> 12月27日，第23艘052D型驱逐舰、第6艘055型驱逐舰在大连造船厂下水；
> 12月29日，第24艘052D型驱逐舰在江南造船厂下水。


Report from weibo that another 052D launched at Jiangnan shipyard today.
Altogether 8 x 052D + 2 x 055 = 10 new destroyers launched in 2019.

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## LKJ86

Via @Alberta-徐浩 from Weibo

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## lcloo

#13 052D DDG 156 淄博舰 entering service.

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## aziqbal

So 5 x 052D from JNCX 

and 3 x 052D from DL 

2019 what a finish

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## LKJ86

Via @aman928y from Weibo


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## LKJ86

Via @_老年_ from Weibo


----------



## LKJ86

Via @央视军事报道 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via navy.81.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @海军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @军报记者 from Weibo

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## Tsubodai

A possibility for new Navy fleet ship could be to use the longer Type 052D hull, convert it to IEP, modify the hangar area to take 2 x Z-20, change some of the superstructure to be a bit like Type 055, add 8-16 slant launchers.

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## LKJ86

Via navy.81.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## ChineseTiger1986

156 Zibo was commissioned in the same day as 101 Nanchang.

China's very first Type 052DL, and the 13th Type 052D overall.

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## LKJ86

Via @劈山故事 from Weixin

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## IblinI

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 156 Zibo was commissioned in the same day as 101 Nanchang.
> 
> China's very first Type 052DL, and the 13th Type 052D overall.
> 
> 
> View attachment 599521


Commissioned 2 destroyers on the same day is definitely a separate thread with hundreds of reply if the news comes from another country, but just a normal other days for China with only a few thumps up in the Chinese defense section.

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## Tipu7

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China's very first Type 052DL, and the 13th Type 052D overall


What's the difference between DL and D?


----------



## Dante80

Tipu7 said:


> What's the difference between DL and D?



The main visual difference is a 4m stretching/extension of the flight deck.


----------



## samsara

Tipu7 said:


> What's the difference between DL and D?


*The Improved 052D (DL / DG) vs the standard one:*

Better millimeter-wave radars
Stealth fighter detection
Longer flight deck
New shipboard anti-submarine helicopters
@DJ垂耳兔

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## LKJ86

Via www.81.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @斯文的威猛 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via www.81.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @热武器时代的爱情 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

By 杨辉

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## Figaro

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 600128
> 
> By 杨辉


Still a very sleek and beautiful ship after all these years.


----------



## LKJ86

Via navy.81.cn

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## LKJ86

Via navy.81.cn

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## obj 705A

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 600549
> View attachment 600550
> View attachment 600551
> View attachment 600552
> View attachment 600553
> 
> Via navy.81.cn


apparently this is in the indian ocean though I'm not sure.


----------



## Han Patriot

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 600549
> View attachment 600550
> View attachment 600551
> View attachment 600552
> View attachment 600553
> 
> Via navy.81.cn


That's alot of 052Ds....IOR?


----------



## Daniel808

obj 705A said:


> apparently this is in the indian ocean though I'm not sure.





Han Patriot said:


> That's alot of 052Ds....IOR?



What I know, since last year China's Navy always maintain a Task Force minimum 8 Combat Ready Warships in IOR at any given time (mostly Destroyer and Heavy Frigate). More if you include Survey Vessel, Surveillance Ships, Logistic Vessel, Submarines, and Ships stationed on their Djibouti Naval Bases, and Gulf of Aden.

Maybe to Patrol and Securing lines between their Naval Base in Djibouti and their Bases in South China Sea.



And thats already confirmed by an Indian Admiral,
*At any given time, seven to eight Chinese vessels are there in the region,” Admiral Singh said.*
https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/eye-on-chinese-ships-in-indian-ocean-navy/cid/1724086



And what worrying indian more, China's Navy also deploying Submarines for fighting Somali pirates 
*Sources in the defence ministry said Chinese naval ships had been regularly entering the Indian Ocean since 2013 and had been deploying submarines for anti-piracy operations.

“India is worried over China’s influence in the Indian Ocean region and the PLA navy is taking an assertive stance in the South China Sea and is challenging India’s domination in the region. There is a threat from Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean even though they claim it is for anti-piracy. We are regularly carrying out threat assessment of the PLA’s submarines,” a defence ministry official told The Telegraph.
https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/eye-on-chinese-ships-in-indian-ocean-navy/cid/1724086*


Fighting somali pirates with Nuke Subs  Chinese Admiral really love to troll indians. LOL

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## lcloo

Han Patriot said:


> That's alot of 052Ds....IOR?


Two Somalia convoy taskforce #33 and #34. They met, had an exchange of duty exercise, #34 take over, #33 then left for other places.

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7

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## LKJ86

Via @南海舰队 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @南海舰队 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @北海舰队 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @热武器时代的爱情 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

HHQ-9B SAM






YJ-18A AShM







Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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----------



## Pakistani Fighter

LKJ86 said:


> HHQ-9B SAM
> View attachment 602624
> 
> 
> YJ-18A AShM
> View attachment 602626
> View attachment 602627
> 
> Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo


A question. Does Pakistani Type 054A/P have the capacity to install HHQ9B as Air Defense? @LKJ86 @Deino @Basel


----------



## Beast

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> A question. Does Pakistani Type 054A/P have the capacity to install HHQ9B as Air Defense? @LKJ86 @Deino @Basel


No... The missile is too big to fit into Type054 VLS silo.

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## Basel

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> A question. Does Pakistani Type 054A/P have the capacity to install HHQ9B as Air Defense? @LKJ86 @Deino @Basel



The HQ-9 is larger than HQ-16 so not possible with out major hull refit.

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## LKJ86

Via @央视军事报道 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @南部强军号 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @南海舰队 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @南海舰队 fromWeixin

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## LKJ86

Via @南部强军号 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Hot-launched YJ-18A AShM and cold-launched HHQ-9B SAM from Type 052D DDG

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## LKJ86

Via @东海舰队发布 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

HQ-10







Via @CNR国防时空 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @胡子说海 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> HQ-10
> View attachment 606518
> View attachment 606519
> 
> Via @CNR国防时空 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Type 346A AESA radar




Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @央广军事 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via navy.81.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @胡子说海 from Weibo

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## Beast

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 607850
> View attachment 607851
> View attachment 607852
> View attachment 607853
> View attachment 607854
> View attachment 607855
> 
> Via @央广军事 from Weixin



Training at West Pacific?


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## LKJ86

Via @浩汉防务-蓝海踏浪 from Weibo

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## Beast

https://www.china-arms.com/2020/02/cold-and-hot-launches-052d/

Unique in the world. Hot/cold launch VLS system.

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## LKJ86

Via @胡子说海 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via 解放军画报

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## LKJ86

Via @北海舰队 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @南海舰队 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Thailand
March 8, 2020







Via @北海舰队 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## vishwambhar

China has achieved tremandous success with type 52D and type 55.... Scary fire power..... I hope one day India is able to build warships in this class.... Congratulations to Chinese....

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## LKJ86

Via @xx笑而不语xx from Weibo

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## Beast

vishwambhar said:


> China has achieved tremandous success with type 52D and type 55.... Scary fire power..... I hope one day India is able to build warships in this class.... Congratulations to Chinese....


Thank you. Especially 055 cos it Excel best US warship in almost all area for first time.

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## vishwambhar

Beast said:


> Thank you. Especially 055 cos it Excel best US warship in almost all area for first time.



Yes 055... Enemy's envy...Owner's pride...

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## LKJ86

Via @大包00 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @云墨斋SSS from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @人民海军 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via www.top81cn.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @FY-神华 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @芝士乳酸君 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via 人民画报

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## LKJ86

Via @北海舰队 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @云墨斋SSS from Weibo

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## LKJ86

April 28, 2020



















Via @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @浩汉防务-蓝海踏浪 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via 解放军画报

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## LKJ86

Via @北海舰队 from Weixin

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1257979644164308994

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## LKJ86

Via navy.81.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via navy.81.cn

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## LKJ86

YJ-18 AShM




Via @雷曼军事现代舰船 from Weixin

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> YJ-18 AShM
> View attachment 633651
> 
> Via @雷曼军事现代舰船 from Weixin




Impressive ...






https://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2020-04-24/doc-iirczymi8036269.shtml

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## LKJ86

Via @人民海军 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @央视军事报道 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

By 浩汉防务-wind63

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## LKJ86

May 21, 2020




























Via @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

By 海青

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## LKJ86

By 邹向民 and 吴政

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## LKJ86

Via www.haohanfw.com

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 635290
> 
> Via www.haohanfw.com


A new destroyer? not yet commissioned for having no hull no, or simply being concealed?


----------



## samsara

提康DL加 122唐山舰即将服役 via weibo@红鲨

名称来自于图2的错视，雪龙2的舰桥+052DL的舰首

_The Type 052DL (extended version) *Tangshan 122* is about to enter service._

The "name" (I guess what's put on the 1st pic) comes from the wrong view of Figure 2, the bridge of Xuelong 2 + the bow of 052DL. 












__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265513822279917571

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @人民海军 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 637365
> View attachment 637366
> View attachment 637367
> 
> Via @人民海军 from Weixin







Via @疯子白杨 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @中国军网 from Weixin

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## BHarwana

161

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## LKJ86

Via navy.81.cn

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## LKJ86

By 江山

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## LKJ86

Via @开心包子铺 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @央视军事报道 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via www.81.cn

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## samsara

Type 052DL (052DG) is doing sea trial

2020.07.05:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279645414052921344

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## Zarvan

Type 52 D doesn't carry 2 x 4 Anti Ship Missile tubes. Right @LKJ86 ??

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## LKJ86

Zarvan said:


> View attachment 648965
> 
> 
> Type 52 D doesn't carry 2 x 4 Anti Ship Missile tubes. Right @LKJ86 ??


It is not Type 052D, but just a very very old CG from a military fan's imagination.

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## sheik

Zarvan said:


> View attachment 648965
> 
> 
> Type 52 D doesn't carry 2 x 4 Anti Ship Missile tubes. Right @LKJ86 ??



No. All Anti ship missiles are in the VLS.
And your diagram is way off, bro. The cover of the 346A radar is flat. The positions of the 1130 CIWS and the HQ-10 missiles are reversed. There are only one group of funnels, not two. And many more... 
Please see the photos below.

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## LKJ86

Via @海军新闻 from Weixin

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## JSCh

*PLA’s upgraded Type 052D destroyer makes training debut in E.China Sea amid tensions in Taiwan Straits*
By Liu Xuanzun Source: Global Times Published: 2020/7/12 19:56:40



The PLA Navy guided missile destroyer _Zibo_ (Hull 156) conducts exercises in waters of East China Sea in early July 2020. Photo: navy.81.cn

Amid rising tensions across the Taiwan Straits with the US military's increasingly frequent operations in the region, the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy recently held drills in the East China Sea, with the latest, more powerful, anti-stealth aircraft-capable version of the Type 052D destroyer making its first public appearance, according to military reports over the weekend.

In early July, a destroyer flotilla affiliated with the PLA Eastern Theater Command Navy conducted training exercises at an undisclosed location in the East China Sea. The training subjects included air and missile defenses, attacks on surface vessels, and joint anti-submarine operations, the PLA Daily reported on Sunday.

According to more details released in a statement and photos posted by the PLA East China Sea Fleet on Friday, the drills featured the guided missile destroyer _Zibo_, which has the hull number 156, among several other warships.

Having entered military service on January 12, the _Zibo_ is the PLA Navy's first ship of the improved version of the Type 052D destroyer, which is dubbed the Type 052DL, reads an article on the website of the government of Zibo, the city in East China's Shandong Province the destroyer is named after.

This is the first time the _Zibo_ was seen in action according to a publicly available report, observers noted.

Compared to the original Type 052D, the Type 052DL has a longer helicopter deck, and is equipped with a new, meter wave long-range radar on its after-mast, the article said, noting the improvements enable the destroyer to carry China's most advanced Z-20 ship-born helicopter, and to better cope with hostile stealth warplanes.

The exercises came at a time when tensions are rising across the Taiwan Straits, as the US not only approved a new arms sale to Taiwan on Thursday, but also sent a destroyer to waters north of the island of Taiwan and conducted close-up reconnaissance on the Chinese mainland on Friday, according to the South China Sea Strategic Situation Probing Initiative (SCSPI), a Beijing-based think tank.

The US frequently sent military aircraft and vessels to and near Taiwan since June, and Taiwan is also set to hold its annual Han Kuang exercise on Monday.

The US military will likely play a part in Taiwan's Han Kuang exercise, as it has secretly sent military personnel to participate in past occasions, and the US and Taiwan secessionists are planning to cooperate in resisting a potential Taiwan reunification-by-force operation by the PLA, Li Jie, a Beijing-based naval expert, told the Global Times on Sunday.

PLA naval drills can serve as a deterrent to US reconnaissance operations, and also send a warning to Taiwan secessionists, Li said, noting the PLA is prepared for all options.

Just like the US' close-up reconnaissance on China, the PLA can also conduct similar operations on US bases in Asia-Pacific region, observers said.

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## LKJ86

Via 舰船知识

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## Figaro

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 652274
> View attachment 652275
> 
> Via 舰船知识


The 052D is still a very beautiful ship after this many years . Never can get enough of her.

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## LKJ86

Via @国防部发布 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Two Type 052DL




Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Type 052DL







Via @开心包子铺 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @海军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> Two Type 052DL
> View attachment 657668
> 
> Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo







Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Type 055 vs Type 052DL




Via @仗剑深蓝 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @北海舰队 from Weixin

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## samsara

From Henri Kenhmann at East Pendulum on 2020-08-16:

_According to some sources, the *Type 052D Tangshan (Hull# 122) destroyer* was admitted to active service on 14 AUGUST in Qingdao, by the *10th Destroyer Flotilla (Northern Fleet)*.

IF this is confirmed, it will then be the 14th in this class to enter service and the 2nd since early 2020._







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1295029974278131712


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via https://www.tkww.hk/a/202008/30/AP5f4b1d52e4b01ed767453bea.html

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## LKJ86

All of the 25 Type 052D DDGs:




Via www.top81cn.cn

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## LKJ86

Type 052DL




Via www.top81cn.cn

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## bolo

Why not just concentrate on type 55?


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## Beast

bolo said:


> Why not just concentrate on type 55?


Budget constraint. If by theory, 055 is in fact cruiser and not destroyer.


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## siegecrossbow

bolo said:


> Why not just concentrate on type 55?



055 is cruiser level whereas 052D is still destroyer level.


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## samsara

And some seemingly knowing dude said that the Type 052D series destroyer is *underarmed* with less missiles than a Burke.

I wonder if such judgement from this sole aspect (#VLS) is a sound valuation, and then USN operates 67 Burkes plus 22 Ticos. Thus if it's true that 052D performs less than Burke, then PLAN will need many more quantity to offset the firing power deficiency.

What do you think, guys?


----------



## Daniel808

samsara said:


> And some seemingly knowing dude said that the Type 052D series destroyer is *underarmed* with less missiles than a Burke.
> 
> I wonder if such judgement from this sole aspect (#VLS) is a sound valuation, and then USN operates 67 Burkes plus 22 Ticos. Thus if it's true that 052D performs less than Burke, then PLAN will need many more quantity to offset the firing power deficiency.
> 
> What do you think, guys?


But, if I'm not wrong.
Type 052D VLS is much bigger than VLS in burkes despite they have less number

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## PeacefulWar

samsara said:


> And some seemingly knowing dude said that the Type 052D series destroyer is *underarmed* with less missiles than a Burke.
> 
> I wonder if such judgement from this sole aspect (#VLS) is a sound valuation, and then USN operates 67 Burkes plus 22 Ticos. Thus if it's true that 052D performs less than Burke, then PLAN will need many more quantity to offset the firing power deficiency.
> 
> What do you think, guys?


96 vs 64 VLS
Burke has more fire power than 052D.
055 has more fire power than Burke.

Parity with USN can only achieves no earlier than 2050.
And I doubt PLAN has this ambition atm since global power projection is not a priority for us.

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## sheik

samsara said:


> And some seemingly knowing dude said that the Type 052D series destroyer is *underarmed* with less missiles than a Burke.
> 
> I wonder if such judgement from this sole aspect (#VLS) is a sound valuation, and then USN operates 67 Burkes plus 22 Ticos. Thus if it's true that 052D performs less than Burke, then PLAN will need many more quantity to offset the firing power deficiency.
> 
> What do you think, guys?



Number of VLS units might be important, but I think it's more important (and urgent) to get new mid-range SAM to fit 4 into one VLS unit. Given the larger size of the VLS unit compared to MK56, this new missile should be capable enough compared to ESSM. Ideally it should be double 5 (top speed 5 Mach and range 50 km).

IMHO 052D is still too small. PLA needs a new class of destroyer (052E or 057 whatever) for general use emphasizing ASW. It should be 8000-9000 tons loaded with IEP (hence will be more likely called 057 due to new type of propulsion system) and be fast enough (e.g. 32 knots) to clear underwater threats for the carrier strike group.
It will operate two Z-20s and have about 80-96 VLS units. The building of this class should start after the first batch of 055 is done and before launch of the next batch of enhanced 055. PLAN needs about 30 such destroyers and In the long run the PLAN carrier strike group will consist of only 055 and this new class besides the carrier and submarines.

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## LKJ86

Via @Andrei from www.top81cn.cn

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @海军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

By 东剑 and 江山

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## Figaro

Via pir3cd
H/LJQ-520 radar is the new VHF radar for 052DL

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## LKJ86

Via @中国军网 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weiob

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## LKJ86

Via www.js7tv.cn and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @央视军事报道 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Type 052DL







Via CCTV 7 and @空天砺剑 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @解放军报 from Weixin

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## LKJ86



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## HRK

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 677470
> View attachment 677471
> View attachment 677472
> View attachment 677473
> View attachment 677474
> 
> Via @解放军报 from Weixin


bro do you have any idea about the dimensional measurement like dept and width of single VLS cell of Type-54A and Type-52 DDG .... ???


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## FuturePAF

LKJ86 said:


>




Any indication a future version of the Type 052D will feature the integrated mast from the Type 055. It would help cut down on the RCS and increase the number of targets the X-band radars can guide missiles towards.

Also does the Type 052D carry the Z-18J AEW Helicopter? Or at least have room for it, preferably along with a Z-20 ASW helicopter.


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## Brainsucker

Figaro said:


> Via pir3cd
> H/LJQ-520 radar is the new VHF radar for 052DL
> 
> View attachment 669642



Don't they care about the safety of this man? That profile tell his involvement in PLA critical military technology. Thus give any foreign entities a hint, that he is a high profile target. Whatever it is US or other countries, will eagerly to kidnap him for his knowledge of Radar Technology.


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## LKJ86

Via 秦慧鹏

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## LKJ86

Via @人民海军 from Weixin

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @舰船知识 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @人民海军 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:4570839035609090?from=old_pc_videoshow

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 687749
> View attachment 687750
> View attachment 687751
> View attachment 687752
> View attachment 687753
> View attachment 687754
> 
> Via @人民海军 from Weixin


From Henri Kenhmann at East Pendulum on 2020.11.13:

*Inside a Type 052D destroyer...*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1327226504334348288

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## LKJ86

Via @不研究军事的蓝海踏浪 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @285861857gt from Weibo

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

YJ-18





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## Akasa

LKJ86 said:


> YJ-18
> View attachment 693416
> 
> Via @舰船知识 from Weibo



Have the 052D vessels received the software upgrades necessary to launch YJ-18 land-attack cruise missiles?


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## samsara

Akasa said:


> Have the 052D vessels *received the software upgrades necessary to launch* YJ-18 land-attack cruise missiles?


Seeing your attempts on trying to inquire things not made known publicly, just wanna say that your OSINT efforts won't do here. Try your luck at SDF using _your other moniker_, @SinoSoldier,,, btw long time not seeing its activity here  yet Chinese posters recognize the relentless efforts of both of you!

//EDIT: No wonder never see his activity here anymore in the last couple of years, the moniker @SinoSoldier already quitted this board.

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## bshifter

samsara said:


> Seeing your attempts on trying to inquire things not made known publicly, just wanna say that your OSINT efforts won't do here. Try your luck at SDF using _your other moniker_, @SinoSoldier,,, btw long time not seeing its activity here  yet Chinese posters recognize the relentless efforts of both of you!
> 
> //EDIT: No wonder never see his activity here anymore in the last couple of years, the moniker @SinoSoldier already quitted this board.


Unmasked himself long time ago with those sort of questions, he thinks Chinese are stupid enough to fall for this trick. No matter how many times he tries he won't be gathering useful sensitive data.

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

Via www.plapic.com.cn

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## samsara

*As of 2020, 15 among the 25 052D/DL warships have been launched and are in active service, serving as the core force of each.*

截至2020年，已下水的25艘052D/DL里有15艘现役，是各驱支的核心力量。
172 昆明舰 Kunming warship 
173 长沙舰 Changsha
174 合肥舰 Hefei
175 银川舰 Yinchuan
117 西宁舰 Xining
118 乌鲁木齐舰 Urumqi
119 贵阳舰 Guiyang
120 成都舰 Chengdu
121 齐齐哈尔舰 Qiqihar 
122 唐山舰 Tangshan
131 太原舰 Taiyuan
154 厦门舰 Xiamen
155 南京舰 Nanjing
156 淄博舰 Zibo
161 呼和浩特舰 Hohhot

Source: https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2677104&extra=&page=1


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344756879075889152

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## LKJ86

Type 052D and Type 052C







Via @海军新闻 and @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @子龙99_172 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> Type 052D and Type 052C
> View attachment 703604
> View attachment 703605
> 
> Via @海军新闻 and @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @兵器知识读者服务 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @海军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @海军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @海军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @海军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7195681085

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 707377
> View attachment 707378
> View attachment 707379
> 
> Via @海军新闻 from Weixin

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## samsara

From 逆襲 @horobeyo on 2021.01.23:

055、052D、阿利·伯克级及其猴版、伯克III（计划）和伯克III（实际）的建模对比
作者CD@baoxiuyuan

关于伯克级的干舷高度和长宽比，CD上有不同意见。
所以不必当做参考基准，大致意思一下就行。

_Modeling comparison of Type 055, 052D, Arleigh Burke class destroyers and its variants, Burke III (planned) and Burke III (actual)_
Author: CD@baoxiuyuan

_There are different opinions on CD about the freeboard height and aspect ratio of Arleigh Burke class. So don't use it as a reference, just to give some rough idea._


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352890301933785089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352893312139550720

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

Via @人民海军 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:4600505020907526?from=old_pc_videoshow

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## LKJ86

Via @海军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @人民海军 from Weibo

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## samsara

*PLA commissions upgraded destroyer, naval drills show*

By Liu Xuanzun
Published: Mar 02, 2021 07:33 PM

A NEWLY COMMISSIONED, UPGRADED VARIATION of the Type 052D destroyer recently made its public debut in a series of maritime exercises by the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy, and analysts said more warships of this class are expected to join the service soon.

The *PLA Northern Theater Command Navy* recently organized eight new-type warships to conduct exercises in the Yellow Sea, with the goal of enhancing the naval officers' emergency commanding capability and the crew members' technical competence, China National Radio (CNR) reported on Monday.

The drills featured comprehensive attack and defense training and lasted five days, the report said.

In the video released with the CNR report, a warship identified as an upgraded variation of the Type 052D guided missile destroyer and painted with *hull number 123 was seen for the first time*, military observers said, noting that this indicates this new ship has been *commissioned* into the PLA Navy.

Compared with the original Type 052D, THE UPGRADED VERSION, often *informally dubbed* the *Type 052DL*, has an *extended helicopter flight deck* and is equipped with a *new anti-stealth radar*, reports said previously.

The CNR report did not give further details on the ship like its name. Observers said it is likely the *HUAINAN*, the namesake of a city in East China's *Anhui* Province.

Replying to an inquiry by a resident on the naming of the Huainan, the local veterans affairs office confirmed in September 2020 on its website that the PLA Northern Theater Command was naming a new-type guided missile destroyer as the Huainan, without explaining the exact type of the ship.

On February 11, the Huainan Daily released a video showing crew members of the Huainan extending Spring Festival greetings to people in the city. The video shows that the Huainan is a Type 052D destroyer, and indicated that the warship was commissioned into the PLA Navy before the report date, analysts said.

The PLA Navy's official Sina Weibo account also released a video on February 11 mentioning a warship named after *SUZHOU*, East China's *Jiangsu* Province, without elaboration or footage on the ship that makes its type identifiable. Analysts speculate that the Suzhou is *also a newly commissioned* destroyer, citing the PLA's naval vessels naming regulation.

China has LAUNCHED MANY NEW DESTROYERS over the past few years that are gradually entering naval service, a military expert who requested anonymity told the Global Times on Tuesday.

Many of them are still under outfitting work or in sea trial phase, which means more will join the PLA Navy soon to better safeguard China's sovereignty, territorial integrity and development interests, the expert said.

IN AUGUST 2020, China launched its *25th Type 052D* destroyer and *eighth Type 055* large destroyer, media reported.






PLA commissions upgraded destroyer, naval drills show - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

samsara said:


> *PLA commissions upgraded destroyer, naval drills show*
> 
> By Liu Xuanzun
> Published: Mar 02, 2021 07:33 PM
> 
> A NEWLY COMMISSIONED, UPGRADED VARIATION of the Type 052D destroyer recently made its public debut in a series of maritime exercises by the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy, and analysts said more warships of this class are expected to join the service soon.
> 
> The *PLA Northern Theater Command Navy* recently organized eight new-type warships to conduct exercises in the Yellow Sea, with the goal of enhancing the naval officers' emergency commanding capability and the crew members' technical competence, China National Radio (CNR) reported on Monday.
> 
> The drills featured comprehensive attack and defense training and lasted five days, the report said.
> 
> In the video released with the CNR report, a warship identified as an upgraded variation of the Type 052D guided missile destroyer and painted with *hull number 123 was seen for the first time*, military observers said, noting that this indicates this new ship has been *commissioned* into the PLA Navy.
> 
> Compared with the original Type 052D, THE UPGRADED VERSION, often *informally dubbed* the *Type 052DL*, has an *extended helicopter flight deck* and is equipped with a *new anti-stealth radar*, reports said previously.
> 
> The CNR report did not give further details on the ship like its name. Observers said it is likely the *HUAINAN*, the namesake of a city in East China's *Anhui* Province.
> 
> Replying to an inquiry by a resident on the naming of the Huainan, the local veterans affairs office confirmed in September 2020 on its website that the PLA Northern Theater Command was naming a new-type guided missile destroyer as the Huainan, without explaining the exact type of the ship.
> 
> On February 11, the Huainan Daily released a video showing crew members of the Huainan extending Spring Festival greetings to people in the city. The video shows that the Huainan is a Type 052D destroyer, and indicated that the warship was commissioned into the PLA Navy before the report date, analysts said.
> 
> The PLA Navy's official Sina Weibo account also released a video on February 11 mentioning a warship named after *SUZHOU*, East China's *Jiangsu* Province, without elaboration or footage on the ship that makes its type identifiable. Analysts speculate that the Suzhou is *also a newly commissioned* destroyer, citing the PLA's naval vessels naming regulation.
> 
> China has LAUNCHED MANY NEW DESTROYERS over the past few years that are gradually entering naval service, a military expert who requested anonymity told the Global Times on Tuesday.
> 
> Many of them are still under outfitting work or in sea trial phase, which means more will join the PLA Navy soon to better safeguard China's sovereignty, territorial integrity and development interests, the expert said.
> 
> IN AUGUST 2020, China launched its *25th Type 052D* destroyer and *eighth Type 055* large destroyer, media reported.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLA commissions upgraded destroyer, naval drills show - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn



Is 052DL heavier than 052D considering it's longer?


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## samsara

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Is 052DL heavier than 052D considering it's longer?


Of course! 

Needless to say... just don't ask how much is the weight difference between the two   just no idea

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @央广军事 from Weibo

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## samsara

From 逆襲 @horobeyo on 2021.03.29:

东舰驱3支队052DL 132苏州舰正式亮相。

_The 3rd Detachment of the East Fleet Detachment Type 052DL __*Suzhou #132*__ warship was *officially unveiled*._


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1376483898608205826

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## LKJ86

Via @海军新闻 from Weixin

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## lcloo

PLANS Nanning #162, launched in 2019 Feb 23rd. Commissioing will be in April 2021. (Chinese wikipedia stated commisioning date will be 2021-4-10, i,e, tomorrow).

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## LKJ86

Via @北海舰队 from Weixin

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## ChineseTiger1986



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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

Via 恒旭 and 张海龙

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## LKJ86

Via 张海龙

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86



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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


>


直击演训场：枕戈待旦！中国海军最新训练画面公开 实拍淄博舰 厦门舰 安阳舰依次开火 多型防空武器相继发射！| 军迷天下
Uploaded By 军迷天下

Hit the training ground: ready to go! The latest training footage of the Chinese Navy was taken into public.
_The Type 052DL DDG Zibo (156), Type 052D DDG Xiamen (154), and Type 054A FFG Anyang (599) fired multiple types of anti-aircraft weapons one after another._

Uploaded on 21 May 2021, 8'20", no-Engsub from this channel as usual

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## LKJ86

Via 雾海 and 张海龙

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## LKJ86

Via @解放军报 from Weibo

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

How many Type 052D are operational by now?


----------



## Daniel808

Tai Hai Chen said:


> How many Type 052D are operational by now?



Until the end of 2021 it will be 25 unit Operational, currently 19 unit

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

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## LKJ86

Via @南海舰队 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 752734
> 
> Via @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @东海舰队发布 from Weixin

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## LKJ86




----------



## Daniel808

Have a nice weekend 😉


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1408595562039971844*（Video via 铁幕君)*

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## LKJ86

Via @南海舰队 from Weixin

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## casual

four 052D commissioned so far this year









Type 052D destroyer Kaifeng enters PLA naval service, celebrates CPC centennial with drill - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn

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## sheik

casual said:


> four 052D commissioned so far this year
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> Type 052D destroyer Kaifeng enters PLA naval service, celebrates CPC centennial with drill - Global Times
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> www.globaltimes.cn



We will see five more commissioned by end of the year.

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## LKJ86

Via @央广军事 from Weibo

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## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

Type 052DL destroyer Suzhou (132) which just commissioned this year 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415663993620938753

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## LKJ86

Via @解放军报 from Weibo

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## maverick1977

when is Pakistan getting these destroyers. Type 55 will be awesome if we get 8 of em

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/attachments/e94818puuaemelk-jpg.76646/





https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/attachments/e9482ikucaa60sg-jpg.76645/






@nang2 @jamal18 @UKBengali @Mista @White and Green with M/S @dbc @Ziggy1977 @925boy @rambro @FuturePAF @aziqbal @denel @mike2000 is back @F-22Raptor @hyperman @gambit @VCheng @Suika


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## lcloo

DDG 155 PLANS Nanjing.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

How many ships commissioned?


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## Char

maverick1977 said:


> when is Pakistan getting these destroyers. Type 55 will be awesome if we get 8 of em



(055+052D+054A*2+903+926+039*2)*8
You will find that the Indian Ocean is not big enough.

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## Super Falcon

Do pak realy buying these ships in future as our EX naval chief said





News definately was running in def circles


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## world of power

Super Falcon said:


> Do pak realy buying these ships in future as our EX naval chief said
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> News definately was running in def circles


it seems china is now proposing expensive type 052D or even type 055; pakistan just got type 054A; again everything depends on china-pakistan-economic-corridor (CPEC)


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## Super Falcon

world of power said:


> it seems china is now proposing expensive type 052D or even type 055; pakistan just got type 054A; again everything depends on china-pakistan-economic-corridor (CPEC)


Yes but our enemy expanding its militar cle we need destroyer we are circled by enemies u dont kniw in war what will iran do iran was indian puppet

W e need bigger ship


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

2, 052D would fit our Heavy Tonnage , Ships as discussed prior by Pakistan Navy Officials


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## Super Falcon

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> 2, 052D would fit our Heavy Tonnage , Ships as discussed prior by Pakistan Navy Officials


@AZADPAKISTAN2009 

bhai definately needed them to take care of long range operations


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## Super Falcon

Is there any chance that pak navy interedyed in these dedtroyers


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## Polestar 2

Super Falcon said:


> Is there any chance that pak navy interedyed in these dedtroyers


Might be another VT-4 story. Rumors claim Nigeria Navy also wanted to buy 052D destroyers.


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## Super Falcon

Polestar 2 said:


> Might be another VT-4 story. Rumors claim Nigeria Navy also wanted to buy 052D destroyers.


Ut at the end oa bought vt 4 whats next for pn only destroyers to bebought and who would sell them to pak


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## Shotgunner51

luciferdd said:


> No,even the VLS cells before the hangar are 9m long,you can find the video that 9m long YJ-18 is launching from them.


The length of YJ-18 is not disclosed yet, some sources say it's 8.22m, but it seems shorter than 7m (as in 1-Oct-2019 parade, without booster).







There are pics/videos of YJ-18 from forward VLS, but you mean YJ-18 launched from aft VLS? Do share the pic or video that will be cool

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## Shotgunner51

One 052D DDG (pennant #161) set sail for Gulf of Aden and Somali waters on January 15th from Zhanjiang, Guangdong Province on SLOC mission. The taskforce also includes a 054A FFG (pennant #575) and a 903A Combat Support Ship (pennant #907), perhaps a 093B SSN may tag along.

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## Shotgunner51

2022.1.18, possibly a HHQ-9B was fired from a 052D, location Yellow Sea. (Source: August)

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## Shotgunner51

This is the second to last 052DL hull built so far (pennant #157 will be the last). All three batches of 052D (baseline and DL) will be commissioned by mid this year, awaiting for new batch to be built likely in Dalian.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490696210889392129

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/yw/2022-03/24/content_10143066.htm




























Via http://www.81.cn/hj/2022-03/22/content_10142463.htm

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/syjdt/2022-03/29/content_10144223.htm

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/yw/2022-04/07/content_10146283.htm


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## ILC

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 831244
> View attachment 831245
> 
> Via http://www.81.cn/yw/2022-04/07/content_10146283.htm


The second pic, what is that, some kind of optics or laser? Not too small for laser?


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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/hj/2022-04/12/content_10147402.htm

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/yw/2022-04/21/content_10149420.htm

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## LKJ86

Via 兵器知识

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## LKJ86

Via 南海舰队

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/syjdt/2022-04/22/content_10149839.htm

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## Abid123

Can the type-052D carry the new YJ-21?


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## LKJ86



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## ChineseTiger1986

Abid123 said:


> Can the type-052D carry the new YJ-21?



Yep, just like the Type 055, all universal VLS of the Type 052D are also 9 meters deep.

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## leviathan

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, just like the Type 055, all universal VLS of the Type 052D are also 9 meters deep.


are you sure? who is using 7 meters then?


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## ChineseTiger1986

leviathan said:


> are you sure? who is using 7 meters then?



For the Type 054B maybe?


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## sheik

leviathan said:


> are you sure? who is using 7 meters then?



The VLS in the middle section of 052D I think.


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## LKJ86




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## LKJ86

Via @中国军视网 from Weibo


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## LKJ86

Via @学习军团 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via 央视网

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/hj/2022-06/14/content_10162908.htm

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @央广军事 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/hj/2022-07/26/content_10173387.htm

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/hj/2022-09/06/content_10183126.htm

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## LKJ86

Via @中国军号 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.mod.gov.cn/power/2022-09/11/content_4920647.htm

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## LKJ86

Via 解放军报

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## LKJ86

Via @和平蓝盾1899 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @和平蓝盾1899 from Weibo

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## MajesticPug

Polestar 2 said:


> Might be another VT-4 story. Rumors claim Nigeria Navy also wanted to buy 052D destroyers.


Looks like the rumor is alive again (10/14/2022):


https://inf.news/en/military/96a71c7fb22591b68c4e35a751898173.html



I'm surprised Nigeria has the highest GPD in Africa and larger than Egypt, Denmark, Norway, Greece, and Pakistan -- among others. All these countries I mentioned have a much larger navy than the Nigeria has.


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## lcloo

MajesticPug said:


> Looks like the rumor is alive again (10/14/2022):
> 
> 
> https://inf.news/en/military/96a71c7fb22591b68c4e35a751898173.html
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> 
> 
> I'm surprised Nigeria has the highest GPD in Africa and larger than Egypt, Denmark, Norway, Greece, and Pakistan -- among others. All these countries I mentioned have a much larger navy than the Nigeria has.


Nigeria is an oil export country thus the high GDP. 

Their small navy indicate there is no external threat, insurgency is their biggest problem.


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## LKJ86

Via @北海舰队 from Weibo

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## Super Falcon

China now ready to export these type 052 ships to some asian country

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## LKJ86

Via http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2022-11/14/content_10199237_2.htm

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## LKJ86

Via @人民海军 from Weibo


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## FuturePAF

Super Falcon said:


> China now ready to export these type 052 ships to some asian country


The export version is said to be 6000 tons while the PLAN Type 052DL is said to be 7500 tons. What is the difference in the design?









国产“鲸鲨”6000驱逐舰亮相？是外贸版052DE，054外贸版叫白鲨_手机网易网


说起这次珠海航展的外贸装备，可以说让人大开眼界，除了航展展馆内，包括室外可以展示出来的单兵装备、枪械、战机、火炮和车辆之外，还有大量无法在现场展示的装备。这些武器装备上虽然只有几页彩页，或者是一块展板，但一旦拿下订单，可能就是上千万或者数亿元的大单，比如这次国产“鲸鲨”-6000驱逐舰就是如此。



3g.163.com


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## applesauce

FuturePAF said:


> The export version is said to be 6000 tons while the PLAN Type 052DL is said to be 7500 tons. What is the difference in the design?
> 
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> 
> 
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> 国产“鲸鲨”6000驱逐舰亮相？是外贸版052DE，054外贸版叫白鲨_手机网易网
> 
> 
> 说起这次珠海航展的外贸装备，可以说让人大开眼界，除了航展展馆内，包括室外可以展示出来的单兵装备、枪械、战机、火炮和车辆之外，还有大量无法在现场展示的装备。这些武器装备上虽然只有几页彩页，或者是一块展板，但一旦拿下订单，可能就是上千万或者数亿元的大单，比如这次国产“鲸鲨”-6000驱逐舰就是如此。
> 
> 
> 
> 3g.163.com



its 6800 tons.

a couple meters shorter than 052DL

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## Super Falcon

Chinese Type 051G first ever guided missile Destroyer after modification few will be out of service but few will be upgraded to G category upgradtion program


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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 900298
> View attachment 900299
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> View attachment 900302
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> Via @人民海军 from Weibo


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## etylo

Super Falcon said:


> Chinese Type 051G first ever guided missile Destroyer after modification few will be out of service but few will be upgraded to G category upgradtion program


I think all type 051 destroyers in Chinese navy had retired now.


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## Super Falcon

etylo said:


> I think all type 051 destroyers in Chinese navy had retired now.


Few are going under upgrades


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## lcloo

Super Falcon said:


> Few are going under upgrades


All Type 051 in Chinese navy had been retired.

The last two ships were retired on 2020 August 28th. They are:-
type 051G1 pennant number 165 PLANS Zhanjiang and
type 051G2 pennant number 166 PLANS Zhuhai,

They have standard displacement of 3,675 tons, which means they are smaller than type 054A/P frigate. It would be better to buy a brand new frigate than spend money on an old ship with limited hull life.

However, there is a lone type 051B, pennant number 167 PLANS Shenzhen, 6,100 tons displacement, commissioned in 1999. It is the only ship in this class, and is 23 years old.

And there are two type 051C, pennant numbers 115 and 116, 7,100 tons displacement, commissioned in 2006. Only 2 ships were built in this class.

PLANS Shenzhen had completed MLU in 2016 while 115 and 116 are now due for MLU. So I suspect that the Youtube video on type 051G upgrade might have mistaken type 051C for type 051G.

Current numbers of destroyers in PLAN:-
7 type 055
13 type 052D
12 type 052DL
6 type 052C
2 type 052B
2 type 052 (#112 and #113, to be retired in around 5 years)
2 type 051C
1 type 051B
4 sovrnmemmy

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## etylo

Super Falcon said:


> Few are going under upgrades


No, all had retired couple years ago.

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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕之翼 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @人民海军 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @央广军事 from Weibo


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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/syjdt/2022-12/27/content_10207961.htm

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/pk/2022-12/29/content_10208406.htm


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## Horse_Rider

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 900298
> 
> Via @人民海军 from Weibo



if China is serious about becoming and acting like a superpower, it MUST upgrade ALL her ships with heavy LVS capability per ship. For todays air defenses, having a salvo of say 14 or 32 cruise missiles isn't enough. 70-80% can be shot down like we've seen in Ukraine. So the Chinese navy needs to have supersonic high-mach cruise missiles like the Russian KH series, we well as larger salvo firing capability.


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## LKJ86

Via @解放军报 from Weibo

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