# CHINA TO BECOME WORLD'S LARGEST CHRISTIAN NATION BY MID-CENTURY



## Akasa

Apparently, there are 10,000 new Christians every day in China.

Posted from WordPress.com:

Many folks have long considered America to always have been and still is a Christian Nation. Now there are many arguments surrounding that. One can argue about our values being much closer to those of the Bible than other countries. Others would argue, what semblance of biblical literacy do people still have in the most literate place on earth? Many are just referring to the sheer number of people who call themselves Christian. We then ask how many of those are true believers versus being culturally Christian? Well for sometime now the experts have been keeping their eye on countries like Africa, South America and of course China because of the massive number of conversions reported. The axis of faith has shifted to the margins, to the poor of this world. Forget the West and the idea that America is still the center of Gods redeeming work the Holy Spirit is vibrant in these other parts of the world. They are doing more than we are. Their numbers inrease daily. They are developing strategies to reach other parts of the world including the US. The Spirit moves with or without us. Lets just focus on China for now. Right now, its somewhere between 80-100 million Christians and growing rapidly. If we simply consider mere numbers China would be the largest Christian Nation in the world by mid-century according to experts.

Looking merely at numbers and their implications, Michelle Malkin posted her find on the rapid rising of christianity in China  *10,000 Christians a Day*

_Ten thousand Chinese become Christians each day, according to a stunning report by the National Catholic Reporters veteran correspondent John Allen, and 200 million Chinese may comprise the worlds largest concentration of Christians by mid-century, and the largest missionary force in history. If you read a single news article about China this year, make sure it is this one.
I suspect that even the most enthusiastic accounts err on the downside, and that Christianity will have become a Sino-centric religion two generations from now. China may be for the 21st century what Europe was during the 8th-11th centuries, and America has been during the past 200 years: the natural ground for mass evangelization. If this occurs, the world will change beyond our capacity to recognize it. Islam might defeat the western Europeans, simply by replacing their diminishing numbers with immigrants, but it will crumble beneath the challenge from the East._

Rabbit Trail:
Commentary from Asia Times, Christianity finds a fulcrum in Asia
Original Source, The Uphill Journey of Catholicism in China

What is God doing in China? What are the implications? Numbers are what people think about first and most. Its really much more complicated by that. This year actually marks 200th anniversary of the first protestant missionary to China, Robert Morrison. Missions to China actually goes back before Morrison to the 1500s with the Jesuits and prolly even before that. The process of the work of God in China has shown us many things not only about missions but the growth of the church (id rather not say church growth) and personal discipleship. It has caused us to reconsider our methodologies and even our securities.

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## CardSharp

I truly hope not. I truly don't.

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## prototype

Do China have such a big Christian population ?

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## siegecrossbow

CardSharp said:


> I truly hope not. I truly don't.



Well it goes to show that China is more religiously tolerant than most people think.

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## Chinese-Dragon

CardSharp said:


> I truly hope not. I truly don't.



I need some more sources before I'm willing to believe that Christianity really is growing that fast in China.

It's definitely growing, I know quite a few Chinese Christians here... but I don't think it's growing THAT fast.


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## Nomenclature

Christianity is the single most unpleasant religion in China. No one else is bent on converting others except Christians. Picture the most evangelical fundamentalist, that's what Chinese Christians are like.

Fortunately Christianity in China is mostly a rural/small town affair, with modernization and rapid urbanization, it will eventually be eradicated.

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## CardSharp

Nomenclature said:


> Christianity is the single most unpleasant religion in China. No one else is bent on converting others except Christians. Picture the most evangelical fundamentalist, that's what Chinese Christians are like.
> 
> Fortunately Christianity in China is mostly a rural/small town affair, with modernization and rapid urbanization, it will eventually be eradicated.



Better yet with more science education, it will become absurd. Despite attempts to modernize and pick'n choose parts of itself, religion in general and Christianity specifically is still based on a inherently flawed way of looking at the world. Religious people can function in modern society but they do so not because of their belief but in spite of them.

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## below_freezing

Christians should be arrested for disturbing public order. Just as I do not want naked men running around my children offering them candy, I also do not want Christians running around my children offering them bibles! 

Your dignity, your life, and your mind.

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## no_name

I believe alot of the increase is in rural/poor areas and not places like Shanghai.

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## CardSharp

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I need some more sources before I'm willing to believe that Christianity really is growing that fast in China.
> 
> It's definitely growing, I know quite a few Chinese Christians here... but I don't think it's growing THAT fast.



If you want to see the crazy mess you get when you mix east asians and christianity just look to Korea. I remember news from a couple of years ago, where a korean girl was severely beaten by her pastor and her family for not attending church often enough.

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## KALKI

below_freezing said:


> Christians should be arrested for disturbing public order. Just as I do not want naked men running around my children offering them candy, I also do not want Christians running around my children offering them bibles! I put Christians on the same list of "undesirables" as rapists and street thugs, they're below even corrupt officials and prostitutes in my book.
> 
> Corrupt officials steal money, which can be made back.
> Rapists, street thugs, and Christians steal things that can't be made back:
> 
> Your dignity, your life, and your mind.

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## below_freezing

I've seen no evidence of this increase though. I seriously think this news is BS.

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## Chinese-Dragon

CardSharp said:


> Better yet with more science education, it will become absurd. Despite attempts to modernize and pick'n choose parts of itself, religion in general and Christianity specifically is still based on a inherently flawed way of looking at the world. Religious people can function in modern society but they do so not because of their belief but in spite of them.



I don't know if that will work. 

America has some good Science education, but from what I have read, around 45&#37; of all Americans believe in "Creationism"... and reject the theory of Evolution.

If my Doctor did not believe in Evolution (and if he thought the Earth was only 10 thousand years old)... then I would be very worried!


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## CardSharp

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I don't know if that will work.
> 
> America has some good Science education, but from what I have read, around 45&#37; of all Americans believe in "Creationism"... and reject the theory of Evolution.



You have to realize how poor public education is in parts of America. I've experience great schools in the US and some pretty poors ones. Besides half of those at the top research universities are often as not, Chinese Indian or of some other foreign origin.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> If my Doctor did not believe in Evolution, I would be a bit worried!



If my doctor did not believe in evolution, I would see that as a definitive indicator that he/she has an inability to think objectively. That said, I have a few very very very religious friends who are dead smart, great at math, does super well in university and I wouldn't mind them as doctors. But I have a feeling that they would good kind people with or without religion.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Is there a concern that Christianity/foreign religion might affect the homogeneity of China?

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## CardSharp

Bombensturm said:


> Is there a concern that Christianity/foreign religion might affect the homogeneity of China?




The Taiping Heavenly Kingdom rebellion that cost the lives of 20 million Chinese was started by a someone who thought he was Jesus's Chinese brother and the other son of God. 


And along with opium, missionaries were instrumental in breaking down the social fabric of China during the Qing dynasty. So yes, I am concerned at least.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Bombensturm said:


> Is there a concern that Christianity/foreign religion might affect the homogeneity of China?



I don't know about that...

In terms of culture and history, China has never really been monotheist.

So perhaps it is a difficult change.


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## below_freezing

Bombensturm said:


> Is there a concern that Christianity/foreign religion might affect the homogeneity of China?



&#22826;&#24179;&#22825;&#22269; rebellion - started by christians, 20 million killed. Boxer rebellion, also christian incited. Realistically, I don't see many people who would choose to believe in Christianity. Remember Chairman Mao:

&#20174;&#26469;&#23601;&#27809;&#26377;&#20160;&#20040;&#25937;&#19990;&#20027;&#65292;&#20063;&#19981;&#38752;&#31070;&#20185;&#30343;&#24093;&#65281; &#12288;&#12288;&#35201;&#21019;&#36896;&#20154;&#31867;&#30340;&#24184;&#31119;&#65292;&#20840;&#38752;&#25105;&#20204;&#33258;&#24049;&#65281;

There has never been a savior, and we can't depend on gods and emperors! For our happiness, we can only rely on ourselves!

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## prototype

below_freezing said:


> *Christians should be arrested for disturbing public order.* Just as I do not want *naked men running around my children offering them candy*, I also *do not want Christians running around my children offering them bibles*! *I put Christians on the same list of "undesirables" as rapists and street thugs, they're below even corrupt officials and prostitutes in my book.*
> 
> Corrupt officials steal money, which can be made back.
> *Rapists, street thugs, and Christians steal things that can't be made back:*
> 
> Your dignity, your life, and your mind.



Now that was a totally insane post

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## CardSharp

prototype said:


> Now that was a totally insane post



His opinion take it or leave it.


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## below_freezing

prototype said:


> Now that was a totally insane post



it's perfectly sane. i have sympathy for prostitutes, they're hard working girls that ran into money problems. they aren't harming society. likewise, even corrupt officials can be forgiven if they have achievements or don't abuse their wealth.

christians, rapists and street thugs on the other hand are purely criminal who do significant harm to society.

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## prototype

below_freezing said:


> it's perfectly sane. i have sympathy for prostitutes, they're hard working girls that ran into money problems. they aren't harming society. likewise, even corrupt officials can be forgiven if they have achievements or don't abuse their wealth.
> 
> Christians, rapists and street thugs on the other hand are purely criminal who do significant harm to society.



i dont know what is ur problem with Christianity,but comparing an entire religion with prostitutes and strret thugs,is not that cheap

have u heard about mother Teresa,so according to u she was also in the class of prostitutes and street thugs

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## roach

below_freezing said:


> Christians should be arrested for disturbing public order. Just as I do not want naked men running around my children offering them candy, I also do not want Christians running around my children offering them bibles! I put Christians on the same list of "undesirables" as rapists and street thugs, they're below even corrupt officials and prostitutes in my book.
> 
> Corrupt officials steal money, which can be made back.
> Rapists, street thugs, and Christians steal things that can't be made back:
> 
> Your dignity, your life, and your mind.



Wow dude, that's about the most reactionary post I've ever read.
I share your discomfort about people obsessed with 'saving' other's souls, who shamelessly try to convert people other religions to their own-trust me, I've met quite a few.

IMO there are two kinds of religious proliferation- spontaneous (where people themselves seek out god) and forced (where poor, destitute people are offered conversion in return for some worldly gain like money, jobs or a house OR by threats of violence). It seems like China has the second problem.

A phenomenon (or religious community) like this will not last, it is like a house of cards. Strong religious communities are built on true faith.


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## prototype

CardSharp said:


> His opinion take it or leave it.



and that was my opinion,take it or leave it

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## Gold1010

If its soft religion then it wont matter , might even bring china closer relations , if its hardcore religion then it wont benefit china.

Australia is considered a christian nation but we are not hardcore christians.

Interesting to see the anti religion in this thread , isnt there a predominent muslim province in china that want independance?


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## CardSharp

prototype said:


> i dont know what is ur problem with Christianity,but comparing an entire religion with prostitutes and strret thugs,is not that cheap
> 
> have u heard about mother Teresa,so according to u she was also in the class of prostitutes and street thugs



mother Teresa wasn't a humanitarian, she was a religious zealot. 

Hitchens on MT
YouTube - Christopher Hitchens on Mother Teresa

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## below_freezing

prototype said:


> i dont know what is ur problem with Christianity,but comparing an entire religion with prostitutes and strret thugs,is not that cheap
> 
> have u heard about mother Teresa,so according to u she was also in the class of prostitutes and street thugs



no they're below prostitutes. prostitutes deserve sympathy and help from the government, christians need to be stamped out like a bug. or at least kept from disturbing others.

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## CardSharp

Aussie4ever said:


> If its soft religion then it wont matter , might even bring china closer relations , if its hardcore religion then it wont benefit china.
> 
> Australia is considered a christian nation but we are not hardcore christians.
> 
> Interesting to see the anti religion in this thread , isnt there a predominent muslim province in china that want independance?



I agree but the proselytizing aspect is largely respectful and non-aggresive in countries like Australia or Canada. This is not the story in places like China.


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## xdrive

below_freezing said:


> Christians should be arrested for disturbing public order. Just as I do not want naked men running around my children offering them candy, I also do not want Christians running around my children offering them bibles! I put Christians on the same list of "undesirables" as rapists and street thugs, they're below even corrupt officials and prostitutes in my book.
> 
> Corrupt officials steal money, which can be made back.
> Rapists, street thugs, and Christians steal things that can't be made back:
> 
> Your dignity, your life, and your mind.



Are you the reincarnation of Adolf hitler?

You are basically saying the same things that he said about the jews in the 1930's and we all know what happened next.

Your statements are absolutely disgusting.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Aussie4ever said:


> Interesting to see the anti religion in this thread , isnt there a predominent muslim province in china that want independance?



There is a small movement in Xinjiang, but it's not an actual insurgency or anything like that.

And Xinjiang is not "predominantly" Muslim, around half the population are Han Chinese.


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## CardSharp

prototype said:


> and that was my opinion,take it or leave it



Look you can agree or disagree by reasoning like an adult or you can just peevishly call someone insane and thumb your nose at them. You are an expert at the latter.

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## Chinese-Dragon

xdrive said:


> Are you the reincarnation of Adolf hitler?



Hitler was actually raised a Roman Catholic, so that doesn't make any sense?

It was the Jewish people that Hitler didn't like.

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## Akasa

below_freezing said:


> Christians should be arrested for disturbing public order. Just as I do not want naked men running around my children offering them candy, I also do not want Christians running around my children offering them bibles! I put Christians on the same list of "undesirables" as rapists and street thugs, they're below even corrupt officials and prostitutes in my book.
> 
> Corrupt officials steal money, which can be made back.
> Rapists, street thugs, and Christians steal things that can't be made back:
> 
> Your dignity, your life, and your mind.



Do NOT insult Christianity. I am Christian, and I understand Christianity more than you. 

So please understand it before saying it.


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## below_freezing

xdrive said:


> Are you the reincarnation of Adolf hitler?
> 
> You are basically saying the same things that he said about the jews in the 1930's and we all know what happened next.
> 
> Your statements are absolutely disgusting.



Jews did not try to convert others to Judaism, regardless of their other faults. Your racism and white supremacy on the other hand is far more disgusting.


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## Akasa

prototype said:


> Do China have such a big Christian population ?



China has the world's largest Christian population.


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## CardSharp

xdrive said:


> Are you the reincarnation of Adolf hitler?
> 
> You are basically saying the same things that he said about the jews in the 1930's and we all know what happened next.
> 
> Your statements are absolutely disgusting.



Thank you for cheapening the discussion and fulfilling Godwin's law.

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pray tell if you were in a court of law how do establish a connection between his statment and Nazism.

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## Akasa

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I need some more sources before I'm willing to believe that Christianity really is growing that fast in China.
> 
> It's definitely growing, I know quite a few Chinese Christians here... but I don't think it's growing THAT fast.



China has about 10,000 new Christians every day.

Currently, China has the world's largest Christian population.


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## prototype

CardSharp said:


> mother Teresa wasn't a humanitarian, she was a religious zealot.
> 
> Hitchens on MT



Christopher Hitchens,the same old lunatic who take ir as a pride to target each and every public figure

b it mother Teresa or Ronald Reagen,Henry Kissinger or Dalai Lama,nobody here take that fool' remark gredible,just visit Kolkata and the people there himself tell u about Mother Teresa,a fraud or an Angle

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## below_freezing

SinoSoldier said:


> Do NOT insult Christianity. I am Christian, and I understand Christianity more than you.
> 
> So please understand it before saying it.



You're free to be a Christian overseas but I would like China to be a predominantly Buddhist and Atheist nation. Please do not try to convert me, you will only be seeking humiliation.

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## CardSharp

prototype said:


> Christopher Hitchens,the same old lunatic who take ir as a pride to target each and every public figure
> 
> b it mother Teresa or Ronald Reagen,Henry Kissinger or Dalai Lama,nobody here take that fool' remark gredible,*just visit Kolkata and the people there himself tell u about Mother Teresa,a fraud or an Angle*



A cheap appeal to sentimentalism.

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## Chinese-Dragon

below_freezing said:


> You're free to be a Christian overseas but I would like China to be a predominantly Buddhist and Atheist nation. Please do not try to convert me, you will only be seeking humiliation.



Buddhism is actually an atheist belief system.

Since there is no God in Buddhism.

God in Buddhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## prototype

CardSharp said:


> mother Teresa wasn't a humanitarian, she was a religious zealot.
> 
> Hitchens on MT
> YouTube - Christopher Hitchens on Mother Teresa





CardSharp said:


> Look you can agree or disagree by reasoning like an adult or you can just peevishly call someone insane and thumb your nose at them. You are an expert at the latter.



I had my reasoning with me why i consider that insane,now if u had a opinion about it quote my post to bring it,rather than lunatic answers like take it ,bring it and suck it

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## justanobserver

^^
Christianity is dying in the West, more and more people are becoming atheistic, some even turning to eastern religions. This is making the missionary groups frantic and so they're turning to countries like India and China

Now don't get me wrong, Christians in Indian are extremely well integrated, *but neo-converts* have been creating a lot of problems (Orissa and the North East) . The methods the missionary groups are using these days are despicable.

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## Chinese-Dragon

SinoSoldier said:


> China has about 10,000 new Christians every day.
> 
> Currently, China has the world's largest Christian population.



Do you have any sources to back that up?

From what I have read, there are about 50-60 million Christians in China, which is no where near the largest Christian population.


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## below_freezing

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Buddhism is actually an atheist belief system.
> 
> Since there is no God in Buddhism.
> 
> God in Buddhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



learned something new. i thought buddha was a god. sorry, i'm not a religious person, no one i know is religious either.

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## below_freezing

justanobserver said:


> ^^
> Christianity is dying in the West, more and more people are becoming atheistic, some even turning to eastern religions. This is making the missionary groups frantic and so they're turning to countries like India and China
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, Christians in Indian are extremely well integrated, *but neo-converts* have been creating a lot of problems (Orissa and the North East) . The methods the missionary groups are using these days are despicable.



agreed, india and china are both facing a new wave of western religious propaganda. Many Westerners don't even believe in it anymore, they're all switching to Islam or Buddhism.

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## Bangalorean

below_freezing said:


> learned something new. i thought buddha was a god. sorry, i'm not a religious person, no one i know is religious either.



Siddh&#257;rtha Gautama was a spiritual teacher from ancient India who founded Buddhism. In most Buddhist traditions, he is regarded as the Supreme Buddha (P. samm&#257;sambuddha, S. samyaksa&#7747;buddha) of our age, "Buddha" meaning "awakened one" or "the enlightened one."

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## CardSharp

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Buddhism is actually an atheist belief system.
> 
> Since there is no God in Buddhism.
> 
> God in Buddhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I like Buddhism, it seems more a philosophy to life than a religion. Just to show an imaginary theistic entity is completely unnecessary for spirituality.

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## Chinese-Dragon

below_freezing said:


> learned something new. i thought buddha was a god. sorry, i'm not a religious person, no one i know is religious either.



Don't worry about it. 

Many people describe Buddhism as a "philosophy" instead of a "religion". I think that's accurate.

Buddha specifically rejected the idea of a God. So Buddhists are technically atheists.

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## below_freezing

Next time a christian tries to convert you, ask them a question:

1.) Do you believe in the laws of physics? They answer yes.
2.) Is god all powerful? They answer yes.

Then pray to god to turn the thermal energy of a hot rock into kinetic energy and let it rise into the air while cooling down.


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## justanobserver

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Buddha specifically rejected the idea of a God. So Buddhists are technically atheists.



You godless commies !

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## Chinese-Dragon

below_freezing said:


> Next time a christian tries to convert you, ask them a question:
> 
> 1.) Do you believe in the laws of physics? They answer yes.
> 2.) Is god all powerful? They answer yes.
> 
> Then pray to god to turn the thermal energy of a hot rock into kinetic energy and let it rise into the air while cooling down.



You won't like reading this then:



> According to a 2001 Gallup poll, *about 45&#37; of North Americans believe that "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so."*



Creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Absolutely unbelievable. They literally believe that the Earth was created exactly like the Bible said, in seven days. And they also think the Earth is only 10,000 years old! I wonder what they think about the fact that the rocks beneath our feet are already millions of years old.

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## CardSharp

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Absolutely unbelievable. They literally believe that the Earth was created exactly like the Bible said, in seven days.





Like I said these people get along in modern society despite their religious beliefs.

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## below_freezing

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You won't like reading this then:
> 
> 
> 
> Creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Absolutely unbelievable. They literally believe that the Earth was created exactly like the Bible said, in seven days.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> LOL buddy.



this only reinforces the distrust of christianity.

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## Chinese-Dragon

justanobserver said:


> You godless commies !



LOL buddy. 

Doesn't Jainism also reject the idea of a God? Or did I mix that one up...

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## below_freezing

I saw a video somewhere, about "10 ways the US is trying to overthrow China's government". It specifically mentioned Christianity and western culture as a way of destabilizing China.


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## KS

Nomenclature said:


> Christianity is the single most unpleasant religion in China. No one else is bent on converting others except Christians. Picture the most evangelical fundamentalist, that's what Chinese Christians are like.



Same is the problem in Indian North East and the Tribal regions with evangelists "harvesting souls" (yes,thats the term they use for conversion) where the traditional way of life and the cultural fabric of the ppl are being grossly damaged by these ppl.

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## Gold1010

Chinese-Dragon said:


> There is a small movement in Xinjiang, but it's not an actual insurgency or anything like that.
> 
> And Xinjiang is not "predominantly" Muslim, around half the population are Han Chinese.



Thanks for clarifying so is the independance movement supported by the whole province or just a small percent?


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## xdrive

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Hitler was actually raised a Roman Catholic, so that doesn't make any sense?
> 
> It was the Jewish people that Hitler didn't like.



My point was very clear just by reading what the guy wrote.

He said people with the christian faith are criminals and are undesirables and should be treated like rapists and street thugs. Basically saying they are the worst people of society because of their religion.

These are the same kinds of things Hitler said about the jews in the 1930's. That's why i said "are you the reincarnation of adolf hitler" My point was pretty obvious.


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## KALKI

*@ All my Chinese friends: Let's see if you hold the same views for Islam...let's see how long you last on this forum them, or you won't say because of the fear of being banned?

After all Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamic religions. Let's see what you choose, a ban or your anti-religion stand when it comes to Islam! *

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## xdrive

below_freezing said:


> Jews did not try to convert others to Judaism, regardless of their other faults. Your racism and white supremacy on the other hand is far more disgusting.



Christians aren't trying to convert others either. You can't convert someone to a religion unless they want to convert.

Do you think Christians in China are holding people at gun point and saying "accept Christianity" no.

As for you last comments, don't make such ridiculous statements. It only makes you look more moronic.


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## below_freezing

iRobot said:


> *@ All my Chinese friends: Let's see if you hold the same views for Islam...let's see how long you last on this forum them, or you won't say because of the fear of being banned?
> 
> After all Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamic religions. Let's see what you choose, a ban or your anti-religion stand when it comes to Islam! *



Muslims do not try to convert others, do not deny scientific fact and have not started rebellions which killed over 20 million people. Historical fact.


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## Gold1010

iRobot said:


> *@ All my Chinese friends: Let's see if you hold the same views for Islam...let's see how long you last on this forum them, or you won't say because of the fear of being banned?
> 
> After all Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamic religions. Let's see what you choose, a ban or your anti-religion stand when it comes to Islam! *



arnt they going to get banned:S? this is almost a hate thread lol.


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## below_freezing

xdrive said:


> Christians aren't trying to convert others either. You can't convert someone to a religion unless they want to convert.
> 
> Do you think Christians in China are holding people at gun point and saying "accept Christianity" no.
> 
> As for you last comments, don't make such ridiculous statements. It only makes you look more moronic.



Yes, you can. By offering money, lying about the nature of the religion, or with the threat of force.


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## xdrive

CardSharp said:


> Thank you for cheapening the discussion and fulfilling Godwin's law.
> 
> Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Pray tell if you were in a court of law how do establish a connection between his statment and Nazism.



Please refer to my last post explaining how his disgusting comments are exactly what hitler said about the jews in the 1930's


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## KALKI

*@ below freezing:* hmm I can see the choice you made


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## Chinese-Dragon

xdrive said:


> It only makes you look more moronic.



It seems your only method of argument is: "personal attack, personal attack, personal attack".

Buddy it was YOU who thought that the NPT stopped nuclear nations from building more nukes ... how can you call anyone else moronic when you say things like that.

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## justanobserver

below_freezing said:


> Muslims do not try to convert others, do not deny scientific fact and have not started rebellions which killed over 20 million people. Historical fact.







> Muslims do not try to convert others....
> Historical fact.


Read on the Islamic conquest of the subcontinent



> do not deny scientific fact



Bigger lol, ask around PDF, people here will deny the theory of evolution.

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## xdrive

iRobot said:


> *@ All my Chinese friends: Let's see if you hold the same views for Islam...let's see how long you last on this forum them, or you won't say because of the fear of being banned?
> 
> After all Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamic religions. Let's see what you choose, a ban or your anti-religion stand when it comes to Islam! *



Exactly. If they were saying all these things about islam, they would be instantly banned.

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## xdrive

below_freezing said:


> Muslims do not try to convert others, do not deny scientific fact and have not started rebellions which killed over 20 million people. Historical fact.



LOL HAHAHA. are you serious? Islam actually teaches muslims that they should try to convert non muslims.

You obviously don't know what your talking about. You are making bullshit statements everytime you post.

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## KALKI

xdrive said:


> Exactly. If they were saying all these things about islam, they would be instantly banned.



More 'instant' than you can say 'instant' 

Man, I just love hypocrites!


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Aussie4ever said:


> Thanks for clarifying so is the independance movement supported by the whole province or just a small percent?



Honestly it's hard to say, statistics on such things are not usually available for the public.

So I can't say how widespread the views are, the only thing I can say is that there is no active insurgency. So even if they privately think that, they aren't doing much about it right now.

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## below_freezing

justanobserver said:


> Read on the Islamic conquest of the suncontinent
> 
> 
> 
> Bigger lol, ask around PDF, people here will deny the theory of evolution.



Sorry I'm just going by what I know. In India maybe they behave differently, but in China, muslims do not try to spread their religion. Historically, Christians have.


----------



## xdrive

Chinese-Dragon said:


> It seems your only method of argument is: "personal attack, personal attack, personal attack".
> 
> Buddy it was YOU who thought that the NPT stopped nuclear nations from building more nukes ... how can you call anyone else moronic when you say things like that.



Umm no, i clearly debunked his posts and then called him a moron, for which he is.

He called me a racist and a white supremacist. I am not even going to argue such a thing because it's absurd, so i simply called him a moron, in which he is.

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## Chinese-Dragon

xdrive said:


> You are making bullshit statements everytime you post.



To below_freezing, ignore this troll above. 

His only method of argument is personal attacks.

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## below_freezing

xdrive said:


> LOL HAHAHA. are you serious? Islam actually teaches muslims that they should try to convert non muslims.
> 
> You obviously don't know what your talking about. You are making bullshit statements everytime you post.



Hahaha, funniest thing.

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## Chinese-Dragon

iRobot said:


> More 'instant' than you can say 'instant'



What exactly have I said about Christianity that would have me banned if it was said about Islam?

Why don't you quote me some exact passages?

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## Gold1010

according to wikipedia christianity has been in china since the 7th century


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## KALKI

*@ Chinese dragon: Dude it became personal the moment you guys started all that anti-religion slander. You are free to believe whatveer you want but you have no right whatsoever to abuse someone else's faith!*

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## justanobserver

below_freezing said:


> Sorry I'm just going by what I know. In India maybe they behave differently, but in China, muslims do not try to spread their religion. Historically, Christians have.



I'm not even talking about India, im talking about my western neighbour.

Try it, ask members here on PDF if they believe in the theory of evolution or not


----------



## xdrive

Chinese-Dragon said:


> To below_freezing, ignore this troll above.
> 
> His only method of argument is personal attacks.



Wrong as i just posted aboved.

Every single bullshit, false statement he has made i have debunked and proved him wrong.

At the end i then called him a moron, because he is one for the silly statements he is making.

It's fairly obvious chinese-Dragon, and below_freezing are a group that go around threads posting incorrect things.

Chinese-Dragon, results to calling people "Trolls" to try to discredit them, but it never works.

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## xdrive

Aussie4ever said:


> according to wikipedia christianity has been in china since the 7th century



Of course they wouldn't know this, these guys don't have a clue but are trying to post like they do.

Everytime Below freezing or Chinese-Dragon posts, they say something extremely incorrect or just plain stupid.

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## KALKI

*Once you bring religion bashing into the discussion, it becomes a free-for-all because , let's accept it, all religions have some positives and some negatives.*

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## Chinese-Dragon

iRobot said:


> *@ Chinese dragon: Dude it became personal the moment you guys started all that anti-religion slander. You are free to believe whatveer you want but you have no right whatsoever to abuse someone else's faith!*



Like I said before, quote me something I said that was anti-religion slander.


----------



## below_freezing

xdrive said:


> Wrong as i just posted aboved.
> 
> Every single bullshit, false statement he has made i have debunked and proved him wrong.
> 
> At the end i then called him a moron, because he is one for the silly statements he is making.
> 
> It's fairly obvious chinese-Dragon, and below_freezing are a group that go around threads posting incorrect things.
> 
> Chinese-Dragon, results to calling people "Trolls" to try to discredit them, but it never works.



hahahahaha ok, ok, YOU, discredit ME?

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## Chinese-Dragon

Aussie4ever said:


> according to wikipedia christianity has been in china since the 7th century



True, but it was never widespread enough to be considered a part of traditional Chinese culture in the way that Buddhism, Confucianism and Daoism was.


----------



## SpArK

below_freezing said:


> Sorry I'm just going by what I know. In India maybe they behave differently, but in China, muslims do not try to spread their religion. Historically, Christians have.



Islam Watch - "History of Jihad in China Buddhists" (Islam Chinese Muslims in China) - by History of Jihad

Islamic world :: Conversion of Mongols to Islam -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Mass Chinese conversion to Islam touted by Saudi government | Earth Times News

History of Islamic Jihad-Jihad against China - Cplash, The Citizen Journalism Site

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## xdrive

Chinese-Dragon said:


> What exactly have I said about Christianity that would have me banned if it was said about Islam?
> 
> Why don't you quote me some exact passages?



You are supporting Below Freezing's disgusting comments about Christianity, you don't actually have to write them yourself, all you have to do is support them and that makes you as bad as him.

He made Hitler type comments saying "Christians are undesirables and should be thrown in jail" "They are like rapists and street thugs"

Disgusting comments.

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## Bangalorean

iRobot said:


> *@ Chinese dragon: Dude it became personal the moment you guys started all that anti-religion slander. You are free to believe whatveer you want but you have no right whatsoever to abuse someone else's faith!*



Let us understand that different people have different perspectives on these things. Chinese people are very different from South Asians when it comes to how the view religion. They are not much into this 'respect all religions equally' thing, and I don't blame them. Don't judge them by a South Asian yardstick.


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## KALKI

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Like I said before, quote me something I said that was anti-religion slander.



Start from page 1, you and below-freezing have been hand-in-glove together in it, of course, with him being the more pronounced one!

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## Chinese-Dragon

below_freezing said:


> hahahahaha ok, ok, YOU, discredit ME?



Ignore him buddy. He was the one who kept saying that the NPT prevented nuclear nations from building new nukes (complete BS).  Everyone was laughing at him, but he still refused to correct himself.

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## xdrive

below_freezing said:


> hahahahaha ok, ok, YOU, discredit ME?



What? You make no sense. I never said i discredit you, i don't need to anyway, you do it to yourself with absurd, false statements like "Christians are like rapists and street thugs"


----------



## KALKI

Bangalorean said:


> Let us understand that different people have different perspectives on these things. Chinese people are very different from South Asians when it comes to how the view religion. They are not much into this 'respect al religions' thing, and I don't blame them. Don't judge them by a South Asian yardstick.



*As a matter of fact, I'm not judging them by any yardstick whatsoever, I never used the word 'Chinese people' in any of my posts.

All I'm saying is, I want to see if they are really as prominent in bringing to highlight the negatives of all religions (including islam) into the discussion....let's see whether they choose a ban or an 'all-inclusive' discussion.

It is never fair to give all the freedom to one side you know!*

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## Chinese-Dragon

iRobot said:


> Start from page 1, you and below-freezing have been hand-in-glove together in it, of course, with him being the more pronounced one!



I'll say it again, if you're accusing me of being anti-Christianity then please quote something specific that I said, and press the report button while you're at it.

Just because below_freezing said it, doesn't mean I automatically support it. Chinese people have their own opinions you know.


----------



## below_freezing

xdrive said:


> You are supporting Below Freezing's disgusting comments about Christianity, you don't actually have to write them yourself, all you have to do is support them and that makes you as bad as him.
> 
> He made Hitler type comments saying "Christians are undesirables and should be thrown in jail" "They are like rapists and street thugs"
> 
> Disgusting comments.



they are my opinions, and they're far less radical than your white supremacist ones.

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## xdrive

Lol when Chinese-Dragon and his little group of buddies are proven wrong (which they are constantly) they result to diverting off topci and posting "ignore the troll, ignore him ignore him" lol it's very funny.

If you guys stopped posting absurd comments and misinformation then maybe this discussion could remain productive but i don't see that happening considering you both say something stupid with every post you make.

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## Gold1010

Chinese-Dragon said:


> True, but it was never widespread enough to be considered a part of traditional Chinese culture in the way that Buddhism, Confucianism and Daoism was.



So is it widespread now?idk why use all hate christianity i think it has a preety good modern record compared to other religions.


----------



## xdrive

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I'll say it again, if you're accusing me of being anti-Christianity then please quote something specific that I said, and press the report button while you're at it.
> 
> Just because below_freezing said it, doesn't mean I automatically support it. Chinese people have their own opinions you know.



Please refer to my last post.

You support below freezings posts by doing "thanks" to his absurd posts and when i debunked them you replied to me arguing for him further proving you support his comments.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Aussie4ever said:


> So is it widespread now?*idk why use all hate christianity* i think it has a preety good modern record compared to other religions.



I don't hate Christianity. Where did you get that idea?

Buddy all Chinese posters have their own INDIVIDUAL opinions, we're not some collective.


----------



## KALKI

iRobot said:


> *All I'm saying is, I want to see if they are really as prominent in bringing to highlight the negatives of all religions (including islam) into the discussion....let's see whether they choose a ban or an 'all-inclusive' discussion.*


*


Hellooooo..anyone care to answer?*


----------



## Gold1010

below_freezing said:


> they are my opinions, and they're far less radical than your white supremacist ones.



White supremacist really? funny we always get the race card , i could say the same 2 you though.


----------



## below_freezing

Aussie4ever said:


> So is it widespread now?idk why use all hate christianity i think it has a preety good modern record compared to other religions.



Number of people killed in China by Christianity: 20 million within past 200 years.
Number of people killed in China by Islam: 200 in the past 200 years.

I don't know about other places, so I do not comment, but in China. Christianity has always led to wars.


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## xdrive

below_freezing said:


> they are my opinions, and they're far less radical than your white supremacist ones.



Another absurd, silly comment by Below_freezing. Proves my other posts right where i said "Each time he makes a post, he says something wrong and stupid"

I am not a white supremacist so once again you have made yourself look like a fool. Let's see what stupidity you come up with next,

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## Gold1010

iRobot said:


> Hellooooo..anyone care to answer?



lollllllllll


----------



## Gin ka Pakistan

What Islam has to do with this thread , why Indian members shifted all the focus to Islam. Any how I think by 2050 India can be made a Christian nation by helping lower cast there.


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## xdrive

below_freezing said:


> Number of people killed in China by Christianity: 20 million within past 200 years.
> Number of people killed in China by Islam: 200 in the past 200 years.
> 
> I don't know about other places, so I do not comment, but in China. Christianity has always led to wars.



More absurd and wrong statements by Below Freezing, proving further that everytime he posts he posts something that is false.

Where is your sources? You don't have any.


----------



## KALKI

below_freezing said:


> Number of people killed in China by Christianity: 20 million within past 200 years.
> Number of people killed in China by Islam: 200 in the past 200 years.
> 
> I don't know about other places, so I do not comment, but in China. Christianity has always led to wars.



*Murder is murder be it of one or a million!*


----------



## below_freezing

xdrive said:


> Please refer to my last post.
> 
> You support below freezings posts by doing "thanks" to his absurd posts and when i debunked them you replied to me arguing for him further proving you support his comments.



you, debunk me? joke. how did you debunk my argument? nowhere, no statitistics, no proof.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

iRobot said:


> Hellooooo..anyone care to answer?



Can YOU answer my question, where did I ever say anything that was anti-Christianity?

Please quote where I said it, if you're going to make such an accusation.

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## KALKI

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Can YOU answer my question, where did I ever say anything that was anti-Christianity?
> 
> Please quote where I said it.



I can't really quote the thanks button you know

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## below_freezing

xdrive said:


> More absurd and wrong statements by Below Freezing, proving further that everytime he posts he posts something that is false.
> 
> Where is your sources? You don't have any.



Taiping Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

20 million dead by christianity

July 2009 Ürümqi riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

200 dead by islam


----------



## xdrive

below_freezing said:


> you, debunk me? joke. how did you debunk my argument? nowhere, no statitistics, no proof.



You said Christians are like "rapists and street thugs" That's false and it's common sense to know that's false.

You also made heaps of other hitler type comments that are logically false.

Also you just said 20 million Chinese have been killed by christians in the last 200 years. Another false statement by you with no evidence to back it up with.

everytime you post, you post false information, it makes you look like a fool.

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## Chinese-Dragon

iRobot said:


> I can't really quote the thanks button you know



Just because I'm thanking a post doesn't mean I agree with everything in it, if I agree with one part of the post, then I will thank it.

Like I said, you falsely accused me of being anti-Christian, and you have no proof whatsoever.

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## Bangalorean

Almost all religions are dumb, and dogmatic, and discourage rational thinking. Among religions, based on history, Abrahamic religions are more dogmatic than others.

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## KALKI

below_freezing said:


> *Number of people killed in China by Islam: 200 in the past 200 years.
> *



Let's see what our Pakistani friends have to say about this!

As far as I know, Islam states that anyone who kills one innocent person, kills the whole of mankind.


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## below_freezing

xdrive said:


> You said Christians are like "rapists and street thugs" That's false and it's common sense to know that's false.
> 
> You also made heaps of other hitler type comments that are logically false.
> 
> Also you just said 20 million Chinese have been killed by christians in the last 200 years. Another false statement by you with no evidence to back it up with.
> 
> everytime you post, you post false information, it makes you look like a fool.



qie, you wouldn't know facts if they hit you in the face. i posted historical evidence. also, we should add that 4 million vietnamese were butchered by christian whites, 3 million koreans butchered by christian whites and then imposing christianity in south korea.


----------



## Jackdaws

below_freezing said:


> it's perfectly sane. i have sympathy for prostitutes, they're hard working girls that ran into money problems. they aren't harming society. likewise, even corrupt officials can be forgiven if they have achievements or don't abuse their wealth.
> 
> christians, rapists and street thugs on the other hand are purely criminal who do significant harm to society.



LOL - That is one heck of a scary statement

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## Chinese-Dragon

iRobot said:


> Let's see what our Pakistani friends have to say about this!



Let's see you finally backing up your false accusation.


----------



## Gin ka Pakistan

iRobot said:


> Let's see what our Pakistani friends have to say about this!



Pakistan helped China to put its 14,000 troops in the northern boarder to make sure no western back Islamic militant can destabilize China.

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## KALKI

Jackdaws said:


> LOL - That is one heck of a scary statement



And you know what the funny part is? They won't dare utter one such word about islam here on PDF...and we all know why! 

Anyways guys carry on, I do not generally take part in such holier-than-thou discussions because you know, there's no point in reasoning with a bigot.

I never meant any disrespect to any religion.

My only purpose was to highlight how people change colours when faced with a threat (here it is the threat of being banned).

I'm done.

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## Chinese-Dragon

iRobot said:


> And you know what the funny part is? They won't dare utter one such word here on PDF...and we all know why!



Yet Indians such as you have no problem making false accusations towards people such as myself.

Like I said before, back up your accusation.

Just find one single quote from me that proves your accusation. I'm waiting.


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## below_freezing

Jackdaws said:


> LOL - That is one heck of a scary statement



oh yeah, i'm scary for supporting people who need help, and those who have achievements, over a group that may destabilize the country i live in.

of course its scary for indians and westerners, when they see china not be destabilized.

---------- Post added at 02:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------




Gin ka Pakistan said:


> Pakistan helped China to put its 14,000 troops in the northern boarder to make sure no western back Islamic militant can destabilize China.



agreed, pakistanis know the difference between moderate islam and radical islamic militancy.


----------



## justanobserver

^^
See dude* this* statement of yours makes no sense whatsoever, that's why my arguments about Islam



below_freezing said:


> Muslims do not try to convert others, do not deny scientific fact




And please don't start bringing India into it

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## Bangalorean

below_freezing said:


> oh yeah, i'm scary for supporting people who need help, and those who have achievements, over a group that may destabilize the country i live in.
> 
> of course its scary for indians and westerners, when they see china not be destabilized.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> agreed, pakistanis know the difference between moderate islam and radical islamic militancy.



I think the point iRobot is making is that Islam is not like Buddhism or other Eastern religions but is actually just another Abrahamic religion. It is more similar to Christianity.

And about your comment regarding denying scientific facts - try discussing theory of evolution (or hundred other topics) with some PDF members, and you will get your answer.

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## below_freezing

justanobserver said:


> ^^
> See dude* this* statement of yours makes no sense whatsoever, that's why my arguments
> 
> 
> 
> Don't bring India into your arguments please



sorry, but this has not occured in china, so i do not know about the situation in india. i'm not trying to bring india into it, but it's the best other example.


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## KALKI

Bangalorean said:


> I think the point iRobot is making is that Islam is not like Buddhism or other Eastern religions but is actually just another Abrahamic religion. It is more similar to Christianity.



Actually the point I was making was, "bigots like......will do anything to serve their purpose."

They will abuse christianity like hell because they know they are not getting banned for that here on PDF. But they won't say a word about any other religion (including islam) because then, they will be banned. Simple as that.


----------



## justanobserver

below_freezing said:


> sorry, but this has not occured in china, so i do not know about the situation in india. i'm not trying to bring india into it, but it's the best other example.




I could be referring to my western neighbor, your best buddy and all weather ally



> And about your comment regarding denying scientific facts - try discussing theory of evolution (or hundred other topics) with some PDF members, and you will get your answer.



Exactly !!


----------



## below_freezing

In the future, religious threads should be closed regardless of what religion or region they deal with.


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## KALKI

below_freezing said:


> In the future, religious threads should be closed regardless of what religion or region they deal with.



Now now! Don't change your tone...what happened? you fear being banned?

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## Gin ka Pakistan

plz Mod close the thread. Only Chinese government knows whats best for their people and that's it.

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## below_freezing

iRobot said:


> Now now! Don't change your tone...what happened? you fear being banned?



Nah, not really. I still stand by the statement that christianity is a dangerous religion, and I do not talk about Islam because that is not the topic of discussion.

However, this is not the forum for religious affairs.


----------



## KALKI

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> plz Mod close the thread. Only Chinese government knows whats best for their people and that's it.



And what will happen to the "200 killed by Islam in China" statement by Below-Freezing? 

Dude, all religions are same, all religions have some positivees and some negatives. 

---------- Post added at 11:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:44 AM ----------




below_freezing said:


> Nah, not really. I still stand by the statement that christianity is a dangerous religion, and I do not talk about Islam because that is not the topic of discussion.
> 
> However, this is not the forum for religious affairs.



I can read between the lines you know


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## Chinese-Dragon

iRobot said:


> Now now! Don't change your tone...what happened? you fear being banned?



Why are you trying to "bait" other people into getting banned?

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## KALKI

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Why are you "baiting" other people into getting banned?



Bigots only. Not people...not people!


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## Chinese-Dragon

iRobot said:


> Bigots only. Not people...not people!



Do you consider Chinese to be people?

If so, then why are you blaming me for something that another Chinese person said? As if we are robots?

I have been called a "chink" before by an Indian person. But I don't blame other Indian people for that, because they are individuals, who have their own opinions.

Now try seeing me as an individual, instead of blaming me for what others have said. Can you back up your accusation?

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## KALKI

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Do you consider Chinese to be people?
> 
> If so, then why are you blaming me for something that another Chinese person said? As if we are robots?
> 
> I have been called a "chink" before by an Indian person. But I don't blame other Indian people for that, because they are individuals, who have their own opinions.



Show me where I blamed Chinese people. Let's not make this about you and me, we have PM for that.


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## Molawchai

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Why are you trying to "bait" other people into getting banned?



Easy answer= they don't need to worry about being banned cos they can always came back with another ID any time...imagine a compulsory IP check on PDF, wonder how many..... will still be here

On topic, i really doubt China will be became the largest Christian country, Chinese people are more into Buddhism than anyother.
Even in Thailand, Buddhism dominate among Chinese Thais.

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## Chinese-Dragon

iRobot said:


> Show me where I blamed Chinese people. Let's not make this about you and me, we have PM for that.



You blamed me for something another Chinese person had said. Why? Because we are both Chinese.

I'm an individual, so if you're going to accuse me of something, back it up by quoting something that *I* said.

I am not an extension of other Chinese posters.


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## KALKI

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I am not an extension of other Chinese posters.



Ok got it


----------



## Ghostwhowalks

if this news is true, and that is a big IF, then Christians sooner or later would become quite powerful in China. Surely that would be a concern for Pakistan given the historic and continuing animosity between Christanity and Islam....


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## Gin ka Pakistan

Ghostwhowalks said:


> if this news is true, and that is a big IF, then Christians sooner or later would become quite powerful in China. Surely that would be a concern for Pakistan given the historic and continuing animosity between Christanity and Islam....



Every country has its own interest , China with any religion will see Pakistan as its friend.


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## RobbieS

Wow..lot of bigotry on display here.

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## RobbieS

below_freezing said:


> don't worry, there is no chance that christianity can spread in china too fast today. ask any chinese person: will you sacrifice 5 hours every sunday to go listen to an old man talk about hell and suffering?



You do understand that it isnt compulsory for every Christian to attend mass. Just like any other religion Christianity too has its levels of involvement. From a practicing and probably converting missionary to a non-practicing believer there can be N types of Christians. What you're imagining is one extreme.


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## TaimiKhan

*Warning to all members, discuss in a civilized manner, any attacks on any religion, its practices etc are not going to be tolerated, will lead to suspension or if necessary banning. 

have a civilized discussion, if you can't, then keep off the thread. *

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## Zeluvaa

Anyone wondering on the validity of the report simply have to do a background check on *Michelle Malkin* who seem to have contributed to the numbers or the article. Watch some of her videos and read some of her articles and you will understand what kind of a person she is. 

She has to be one of the most racist, xenophobic, delusional hypocrite ever to be born as a conservative.

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## K^se

Michelle Malkin Conservative Contributor/Right Wing Column Righter for FOX news, enough said, don't believe the bull =/

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## 9870

Christanity has to be the most Backward Religion .

Remember the Galileo Case.

The Church had a view that the Earth is the Center of the Universe and Sun revolves around it. The Public followed the same.

Galileo, Copernicus and other Astronomers proved that Sun is the center and Earth revolves around it.

The Church imprisoned them to Death.

I understand that was the Medivial period. But the church issued a Formal Apology for it's mistakes only in *1992*.

Even after 12 Christians Landed on the moon 

Galileo affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## true_indian

xdrive said:


> Lol when Chinese-Dragon and his little group of buddies are proven wrong (which they are constantly) they result to diverting off topci and posting "ignore the troll, ignore him ignore him" lol it's very funny.
> 
> If you guys stopped posting absurd comments and misinformation then maybe this discussion could remain productive but i don't see that happening considering you both say something stupid with every post you make.



Very True. or they ask to prove your claim. Like he is sitting on a Judgment and we are his pupils.

Get over yourself Chinese dudes. Painting an entire religion as below prostitution is most ignorant thing if there was any. In my opinion, you are the laughing stock here.


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## greatsequence

BS. The christian missionaries and press keep claiming such figures from time to time even about pakistan and Egypt. So no need to worry and take a chill pill.


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## Tshering22

greatsequence said:


> BS. The christian missionaries and press keep claiming such figures from time to time even about pakistan and Egypt. So no need to worry and take a chill pill.


LOL! I agree with you . Missionaries are serious jobless people having no other work but spread such short-sighted views and raise propaganda.


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## Dr Lakhani

I wonder if ISKCON is popular in China


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## rubyjackass

200 million won't make China the largest christian nation. India, IMO will get more christians than that. It is just that a good number of christians do not give their correct religion so that they can use the reservations for lower castes.


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## Durran3

Christianity is growing at a staggering rate in Africa as well..

As much as I dislike fundo Christians at least the Christians tend to integrate into society just fine where as Muslims once they grow tend to want to separate and claim their own land...not much of an issue if you ask me.. Spreading of Christianity or Judaism isn't half as bad....


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## Durran3

self delete


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## KALKI

^^ What happened? 

I know what you did


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## Chogy

Wow, 10 pages after one day. A lot of raw nerves here. Everyone, please take a step back and breathe.

Wars in China with a Western origin have their roots not in religion, but in power and economics. It was not a Crusade, it was a simple power grab and trade issue. The Opium Wars, for example. They were called the Opium Wars, not the "Christian conversion wars" for a reason.

20 million dead is ludicrous in the sense that religion was not at the base of it. And I doubt the number extremely.

I am a Christian and believe in Theistic evolution... a natural world guided by God over billions of years. Time has no meaning to a Creator. _The vast majority of Christians in the U.S. acknowledge the age of the earth._ That poll was probably intentionally skewed by polling in an extreme fundamentalist area.

Again, I see Hollywood at work with some perceptions. 99% of Christian services last about 1 hour and are messages of love, hope, and repentance. NOT hell. And you don't have to attend if you don't want to.

Forced conversion is vile, and not true to scripture. Conversion comes from within, like Blair's sister's conversion to Islam.

Race: What can I say? It always comes up. Race has nothing to do with religion. Christianity is considered a "White" religion... started by swarthy, Mediterranean, Middle-Eastern men.

If anything, I see strong reactions to anything that disrupts "Chinese cultural purity..." i.e. race. Outsiders were called "Barbarians" right up to the 19th century. The Japanese were even worse in this regard prior to WW2.

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## Hyde

don't think its possible considering the Christian population of china 

May be next century Muslim or Christian majority..... but not possible in mid-century


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## true_indian

rubyjackass said:


> 200 million won't make China the largest christian nation. India, IMO will get more christians than that. It is just that a good number of christians do not give their correct religion so that they can use the reservations for lower castes.



Yes, I do think there are lot more Christians in India than the mere 4-5% represented in demographics.


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## below_freezing

we should seriously delete every religion thread.


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## desiman

below_freezing said:


> I've seen no evidence of this increase though. I seriously think this news is BS.



ill remind all Christian's in China to come register with you personally lol Anways if people want to be Christians then its their choice, no one has any right to questions their faith. Contrary to popular belief, religion has seen a rebound in faith overall in the past 5-10 years or so, increasing incomes dont always mean decreasing belief in God. More money leads to more insecurity which leads to a stronger belief in fate and the power of the divine one. China will face many such challenges in the coming years, it will be interesting to see how they handle it.


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## Water Car Engineer

Are they true Christians, or are they like the many Christians in America(including me) that just call themselves that, born that, but dont take the religion seriously.

China should just be like athiest.


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## sajan

Varghese said:


> Are they true Christians, or are they like the many Christians in America(including me) that just call themselves that, born that, but dont take the religion seriously.
> 
> China should just be like athiest.



achayo... achayante amma ithu kanada... pullikkari chilappol oru 10 kontha niruthathe achayane kondu chollikkum....
just kidding.. dont take this seriously mate...


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## Hulk

Bangalorean said:


> Almost all religions are dumb, and dogmatic, and discourage rational thinking. Among religions, based on history, Abrahamic religions are more dogmatic than others.



Also everyone loves their religion but hate or dislike others (mostly).
I kind of feel, we should have been better off without religion. Actually religion is becoming more like a political party. More into politics than into actual religious stuff.

Actually it is not the religion but the followers that creates the problem. It's like nuclear science one can make nuclear bomb or energy depending on the person.

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## Water Car Engineer

sajan said:


> achayo... achayante amma ithu kanada... pullikkari chilappol oru 10 kontha niruthathe achayane kondu chollikkum....
> *just kidding.. dont take this seriously mate.*..



Its ok, because I didnt understand a singe word. 

You want to translate for me?


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## kamarikhan4u

friend ,my english not very good but i would like to help u in the regard of your opinion about abrahamic religions, islam to my know orders it followers to get knowledge and make research ,1400 years ago islam told its followers to explore the universe, quoting the prophet muhammad i must say he told his followers to get knowledge ,no matter if u have to go for china,it mean knowlege not mean only religion as chinese have never been believing in God, and islam produced scientists when christians even do not know how to drain their dirty waste,sorry for lost comments


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## no_name

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Buddhism is actually an atheist belief system.
> 
> Since there is no God in Buddhism.
> 
> God in Buddhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I can't say I'm a buddhist but I've been looking into buddhism lately. 

Buddhism teaches that there are beings in different realms besides human. (animals, hell and heaven among them) A persons actions and thoughts during his life time determines which realms he will be reborn to after death. A person will be naturally drawn to the realm most suitable for him.

Think about how you behaved when you are dreaming. You will find that your mind is in a more confused state because the reasoning part of your brain is shut off. Desires and fears drive your actions in dreams, and any appearance of thinking is just an illusion. When you die, a similar process happens. You are drawn to the realm you most associated to by karma accumulated not only in this life but also any remaining from previous lives. 
The distinction between different realms is not a clear cut one. Even when you are born as human there can be drastic difference in your fate (Think about son of kings vs someone in slums).

Beings in different realms may have more power than we have, but no matter how powerful they may be there are two things they cannot change. They are the laws of cause and effect (Karma) and the law of birth and death. Beings in these realms are not permanent, and suffers from life and death just like humans do. Therefore sufferings in hell and enjoyment in heaven are also not permanent. In this context more powerful beings maybe referred to as Gods and Demons but they need not be worshipped because one they are bound by death and two even they cannot escape from the karmic effects of their actions. Buddhism teaches that salvation is to come from ourself and not rely on any other beings and all living things have buddha nature in them.

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## Akasa

below_freezing said:


> You're free to be a Christian overseas but I would like China to be a predominantly Buddhist and Atheist nation. Please do not try to convert me, you will only be seeking humiliation.



Why? Will the religion be superior to Christianity?

Christianity will bring China closer to the West.


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## no_name

SinoSoldier said:


> Why? Will the religion be superior to Christianity?
> 
> Christianity will bring China closer to the West.



Why not say Islam will bring the west closer to the Middle East? 
I think the underlyings are more complicated.

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## no_name

Most people will almost reflexively repulse anything that threaten their sense of identities.


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## below_freezing

SinoSoldier said:


> Why? Will the religion be superior to Christianity?
> 
> Christianity will bring China closer to the West.



The west should drop Christianity and start believing in Islam to be closer to oil.


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## siegecrossbow

Let us show some respect to other people's religion, shall we?

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## below_freezing

i will when nonsense like "we should pick up christianity to become closer to the west" is stopped.

if being "accepted" by the west is the goal, the worst thing to do is pick up christianity, they'll look down on you as fakes and liars. the soviets were extremely well accepted by the west, because they could turn the whole west into radioactive dust within seconds. They were hardcore atheists. Power and money are the only thing that matters.

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## lcloo

Islam came into being because the Christian Bibles were translated into too many languages and too many different interpretations appeared. Both Islam and Chritianity share the same roots. 

To prevent mis-interpretation, Quran is only printed in Arabic, and shall be read in Arabic only. In this way I will say Islam is more original. Also, Islam forbide statute and pictures of god and the prophet, which has a reason. Look at the picture of Jesus, he is looking so much like a westerner than having a Middle-East Look. Even the correct name for the son of God is NOT Jesus, it is simply a corrupted name in English.

However, personally, I go for Buddhism in its earliest format, i.e. Therevada Buddhism, it is so scientific and it does not preach blind faith. Buddha once said "Do not believe in what I said, go and find out what I teach is true or otherwise" (not exactly his wordings of course). In Chinese this is called &#35273;&#24735;&#65292;or enlightening.

So China should go for Buddhism, my vote.

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## roach

below_freezing said:


> The west should drop Christianity and start believing in Islam to be closer to oil.



Was that a joke, dude? If it wasn't, it's the weirdest thing I ever read.


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## justanobserver

offtopic.....deleted

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## ThatDamnGood

Nomenclature said:


> Christianity is the single most unpleasant religion in China. No one else is bent on converting others except Christians. Picture the most evangelical fundamentalist, that's what Chinese Christians are like.
> 
> Fortunately Christianity in China is mostly a rural/small town affair, with modernization and rapid urbanization, it will eventually be eradicated.



Thank God!

---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 PM ----------




no_name said:


> I believe alot of the increase is in rural/poor areas and not places like Shanghai.



Must be the money they offer.
Later, when they come around asking for 10% (or more)...


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## Gentle Typhoon

IMO Sikhism and Buddhism have lots of similarities.

In Sikhism God is Sargun (all attributes) meaning all things you see around you. God is also Nirgun (no attbutes) meaning nothing around you. So God exists and doesn't, at the same time! What does that tell you? That you can not believe in God all you want and still believe in him. And you can believe in him all you want and still not believe in him. *That kind of makes every Sikh an atheist.* So if you are atheist Sikh then be proud!


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## SomeGuy

Jesus might have travelled to India and Tibet during his formative years sometime between the age of 12 and 30.

It is said that this is where he learnt values such as pacifism, non-violence, tolerance and understanding.


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## sajan

Varghese said:


> Its ok, because I didnt understand a singe word.
> 
> You want to translate for me?


From your name i thought you were a typical central travancore malayalee.. 
well if u dont know malayalam just forget what i said mate...


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## CardSharp

xdrive said:


> Christians aren't trying to convert others either. You can't convert someone to a religion unless they want to convert.
> 
> Do you think Christians in China are holding people at gun point and saying "accept Christianity" no.
> 
> As for you last comments, don't make such ridiculous statements. It only makes you look more moronic.



You must be dense or blind. Proselytism is written into the bible. Do you think that Christianity would be the world largest religion if they took no for an answer? I've personally missed being "converted" many times, some of the tricks they pulled especially consider my age then was despicable. 

Proselytism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## true_indian

CardSharp said:


> You must be dense or blind. Proselytism is written into the bible. Do you think that Christianity would be the world largest religion if they took no for an answer? I've personally missed being "converted" many times, some of the tricks they pulled especially consider my age then was despicable.
> 
> Proselytism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



True. It does happen in India as well. But most westerners seems to be ignorant of these things. Christian Missionaries mostly concentrate on poorer section bribing them to convert. They even indulge in blaspheming other religions to make their point. Lot of attacks on Christians in India happen because of this. 

But that doesn't mean entire religion is bad. Some of them convert because of change in faith. I don't see a problem with that. Its only when they force and bribe poorer sections to convert they loose their credibility. All religions have good and bad sides to it. Proselytism isn't on the bright side.

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## CardSharp

true_indian said:


> True. It does happen in India as well. But most westerners seems to be ignorant of these things. Christian Missionaries mostly concentrate on poorer section bribing them to convert. They even indulge in blaspheming other religions to make their point. Lot of attacks on Christians in India happen because of this.
> 
> But that doesn't mean entire religion is bad. Some of them convert because of change in faith. I don't see a problem with that. Its only when they force and bribe poorer sections to convert they loose their credibility. All religions have good and bad sides to it. Proselytism isn't on the bright side.



I'm not against religion IF the practitioners can adapt a live and let live attitude, not be the root of bigotry and conflict, not impede the progress of science, let children choose their own religion when they are mentally mature enough to make the decision. 

needless to say, very few religions get my stamp of approval (not that they care)

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## CardSharp

You are one flaming hypocrite.



xdrive said:


> Christians aren't trying to convert others either. You can't convert someone to a religion unless they want to convert.
> 
> Do you think Christians in China are holding people at gun point and saying "accept Christianity" no.
> 
> As for you last comments, don't make such ridiculous statements. It only makes you look more moronic.




You laugh at below_freezing for not know the history of Islam, (he himself admits he doesn't know much about religion) yet you go on and sprout same mistaken view word for word and think yourself more intelligent. You kind of make me sick.


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## Chinese-Dragon

CardSharp said:


> You must be dense or blind. Proselytism is written into the bible. Do you think that Christianity would be the world largest religion if they took no for an answer? *I've personally missed being "converted" many times, some of the tricks they pulled especially consider my age then was despicable.*
> 
> Proselytism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I had the same experience as you.

One of my Aunts was what you might call a "fundamentalist Christian". When I was very young, she often told me that I was going to Hell because I didn't believe in the Bible. In fact she said my whole family was going to Hell because they were not Christians.

To be fair... out of all the Christians I have met, the vast majority have been very reasonable, and compassionate people.

I just had the bad luck to have a fundamentalist as an Aunt.

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## ChinaRocks

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Just because I'm thanking a post doesn't mean I agree with everything in it, if I agree with one part of the post, then I will thank it.
> 
> Like I said, you falsely accused me of being anti-Christian, and you have no proof whatsoever.



Well hypocrycy at its best didnt you accused me of support japanese war crimes just because i said thanks to challenger in other issues?


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## CardSharp

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I had the same experience as you.
> 
> One of my Aunts was what you might call a "fundamentalist Christian". When I was very young, she often told me that I was going to Hell because I didn't believe in the Bible. In fact she said my whole family was going to Hell because they were not Christians.
> 
> To be fair... out of all the Christians I have met, the vast majority have been very reasonable, and compassionate people.
> 
> I just had the bad luck to have a fundamentalist as an Aunt.



That and massive amounts of peer pressure, and guilt. Very hard things to do deal with as a child.

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## Gentle Typhoon

hmm in 1990s, local Christians used to spread booklet about Isa Masih (Jesus Christ), Cross pictures was not suitable for kids.

and I have stupid fren in Yahoo Instant Messenger, He always talks bla bla, I already told I m an atheist.

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## Chinese-Dragon

CardSharp said:


> That and massive amounts of peer pressure, and guilt. Very hard things to do deal with as a child.



Well we both turned out to be Atheists... so whatever they tried to do, it clearly didn't work. 

P.S. I've got ChinaRocks on my "ignore list", so I won't be able to see what he writes.


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## ChinaRocks

xdrive said:


> Wrong as i just posted aboved.
> 
> Chinese-Dragon, results to calling people "Trolls" to try to discredit them, but it never works.



Very well said could not agreed more


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## justanobserver

Gentle Typhoon said:


> hmm in 1990s, local Christians used to spread booklet about Isa Masih (Jesus Christ), Cross pictures was not suitable for kids.
> 
> and I have stupid fren in Yahoo Instant Messenger, He always talks bla bla, I already told I m an atheist.



Dude when I was in Hyderabad, one guy handed me a pamphlet. I was shocked to see what was on it, the Crescent and the Om were written off as "untrue" and there was this huge Cross with the words 'follow the true faith' and stuff like 'Jesus is your saviour'


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## CardSharp

Gentle Typhoon said:


> hmm in 1990s, local Christians used to spread booklet about Isa Masih (Jesus Christ), Cross pictures was not suitable for kids.
> 
> and I have stupid fren in Yahoo Instant Messenger, He always talks bla bla, I already told I m an atheist.



You know part of it is very understandable. They've discovered God they are happy. It's natural to want to share this with your friend, but really those aren't the people whose behaviour I find disturbing. I reserve that for those missionary who go to native populations in places Papua or South America. They use their relative advantage and wealth to coax the natives to accept Christianity, and as one of the conditions, those same natives are expected to reject their traditional values. 






Chinese-Dragon said:


> Well we both turned out to be Atheists... so whatever they tried to do, it clearly didn't work.
> 
> P.S. I've got ChinaRocks on my "ignore list", so I won't be able to see what he writes.


He doesn't bother me too much. He is so absurd it borders on the comical. I doubt many people here take him too seriously.

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## Chinese-Dragon

justanobserver said:


> Dude when I was in Hyderabad, one guy handed me a pamphlet. I was shocked to see what was on it, the Crescent and the Om were written off as "untrue" and there was this huge Cross with the words 'follow the true faith' and stuff like 'Jesus is your saviour'



Well it is an "exclusive" religion, so they can't accept other religions as being true...


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## justanobserver

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Well it is an "exclusive" religion, so they can't accept other religions as being true...



It's true for all Abrahamic religions ....

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## Chinese-Dragon

CardSharp said:


> You know part of it is very understandable. They've discovered God they are happy. It's natural to want to share this with your friend, but really those aren't the people whose behaviour I find disturbing. I reserve that for those missionary who go to native populations in places Papua or South America. They use their relative advantage and wealth to coax the natives to accept Christianity, and as one of the conditions, those same natives are expected to reject their traditional values.



Yes, it's the "born-again" syndrome.

Which might explain why many of us had the same experience, since a lot of Chinese Christians are recent converts, i.e. they are "born-again" Christians.


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## Jackdaws

I've met some real whackos. One was on my campus in USA who ran the Campus Crusade for Christ - trying to convert all international students to Christianity. One white guy at LA Airport had converted to Hinduism and tried to convert me to Hinduism - I found that a tad hilarious.

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## Gentle Typhoon

Jackdaws said:


> One white guy at LA Airport has converted to Hinduism and tried to convert me to Hinduism - I found that a tad hilarious.

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## justanobserver

Jackdaws said:


> One white guy at LA Airport has converted to Hinduism and tried to convert me to Hinduism - I found that a tad hilarious.




Hinduism doesn't have a concept of conversion.However I've heard of fringe groups like ISKON trying to do the same. Any thoughts?


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## Chinese-Dragon

justanobserver said:


> It's true for all Abrahamic religions ....



That's true. The "Dharmic/Indian religions" (Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism)... can often be practiced alongside other religions.

I know plenty of people here who consider themselves Buddhist, but also practice traditional Chinese folk religion.

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## Jackdaws

justanobserver said:


> Hinduism doesn't have a concept of conversion.However I've heard of fringe groups like ISKON trying to do the same. Any thoughts?



Yea - he was one of those Hare Krishnas from ISKCON. They don't try to "convert" you in the traditional sense of the word - they invite you to the temple to discuss philosophy or as in the case of the Maharaj Andy with a blond choti at LAX trying to give you a "free" Bhagwad Gita and then expect $10 as Dakshina for 100 rupee print.

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## Karachiite

Wish there were more Buddhists in the world, the world would be a lot more peaceful then.

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## no_name

Buddhist don't go out of their ways to convert people. You are just reminded that you are ultimately responsible for your own actions, and it is your intention that counts, not what you put on the outside.

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## no_name

SomeGuy said:


> Jesus might have travelled to India and Tibet during his formative years sometime between the age of 12 and 30.
> 
> It is said that this is where he learnt values such as pacifism, non-violence, tolerance and understanding.



I don't think Tibet at the time had buddhism, or any other comparable religion. They were still into shamanism and folk religions.

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## Chogy

Agree... there is a lot to be admired in Buddhism. I don't believe in reincarnation, but the concept of Karma is very appealing, and in a way, is a form of judgement, although not in the Abrahamic sense.

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## humanfirst

People of abrahamic religions especially muslims and christians consider theirs is the only true path to god and according to them it is their duty and responsibility to invite fellow humans to what they believe is the only way to god.I dont see anything wrong in that unless they try to do it by force.According to my chinese muslim friend islam is the fastest growing religion in china by conversion(he gave me the website ÖÐÄÂÍø - ×î´óµÄººÓïÄÂË¹ÁÖÉçÇø as the proof,but i didn't understand anything coz it's all written in chinese)Can any chinese members confirm that ?


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## CardSharp

no_name said:


> I don't think Tibet at the time had buddhism, or any other comparable religion. They were still into shamanism and folk religions.



Tibetan Buddhism is a curious mix of buddhist ideas and a far older tradition of animism. It may come as a surprise but buddhism was actually brought to Tibet by the Mongols under Chinggis Khaan.


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## CardSharp

Chogy said:


> Agree... there is a lot to be admired in Buddhism. I don't believe in reincarnation, but the concept of Karma is very appealing, and in a way, is a form of judgement, although not in the Abrahamic sense.



Karma as the ultimate form of cosmic justice would be nice, but... bad things happen to good people and bad people take good things for themselves. There just isn't any evidence that such a thing exists.


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## no_name

It is said that Asoka (Ashoka?) himself favoured Mahayana buddhism and this branch spread to the north and west, while Theravada buddhism is mainly popular in the south and later spread south, east.

Possibly the reason for this favour is because he felt Mahayana is more transmissable to the general public whereas Theravada requires learned scholars dedicated to the topic due to the larege amount of specific details. Mahayana focuses more on cultivating compassion, helping others and faith in teachings of buddha whereas Theravada focus more on wisdom and personal purification, however all dedicated buddhists be they Mahayana or Theravada (also called Hinayana) should be learned in the various buddha sutras.

So Mahayana buddhism transmitted to Tarim basin countries, and later to China, which then spread to Japan, Korea, Vietnam and Tibet.

Then later on Bodhidharma came to china and preached his version of Mahayana which placed emphasis on teaching without words and the importance of personal experience over theory. He also brought focus on meditation and observing the mind, and Chan (called Zen in Japan) school was established.

Chan under him passed on to five consecutive disciple before it branched into five schools and coexisted together for a while.

Later on pure land buddhism becomes popular and this is possibly the most popular in china right now (unfortunately it also tend to mix with local folk religion). Pure land buddhism advocated paying homage to Amitabha buddha through prayers (&#21335;&#28961;&#38463;&#24396;&#38464;&#20315 coupled with good conduct. Amitabha is a buddha who created a pure land in a far away place in the universe. If a person is sincere in his prayer and believe in Amitabha at the time of his death he will be escorted by an image of Amitabha to pure land, along with whats left of his unskillful karma. Once there he will no longer have to go through more reincarnations but will stay there and purify himself until he reaches buddhahood. According to pure land scriptures, Shakyamuni buddha advocates this method for people who are unlearned and heavy in their unskillful karma but have faith and wants to leave suffering in the samsara.

Buddhism in tibetan evolved into tantric buddhism, a sub-branch of Mahayana buddhism which among other things have this strange teaching of endorsing peopel to endulge in their desires completely in order to see clearly through them and wean them off completely. Not all sects follows this and this is apparently in contrary to what other Mahayana buddhists advocates, which is that the only way to wean off desires is abstinence, as endulging in them is like drinking salt when one is thristy, and will never end.


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## Hulk

I respect all religion who does not have goal to convert people from other religion. That is an insult to other religion. The idea should be co-existance.

Being atheist is not a bad idea.
I admire, Jainnism, Buddhism, Sikhism.
I admir Hinduism for telling us that all religion are equal.

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## Durran3

Even Einstein said that Buddhism should be the 21st century religion because its purely based on doing good, being a humanist, rational and does not stop science from doing its thing like other religions who try to claim pseudo science nonsense in their holy scriptures. Buddhism is about loving and enjoying life and looking at another human as a human rather than an object of faith.

Einstein's Quote



> The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism..



Also here is something funny and just for kicks :p

*Buddhism wins the Best Religion of religion in the World Award * 

In advance of their annual Leading Figure award to a religious figure who has done the most to advance the cause of humanism and peace, the Geneva-based International Coalition for the Advancement of Religious and Spirituality (ICARUS) has chosen to bestow a special award this year on the Buddhist Community. "We typically prefer an under-the-radar approach for the organization, as we try to embody the spirit of modesty found in the greatest traditions," said ICARUS director Hans Groehlichen in a phone conference Monday. "But with organized religion increasingly used as a tool to separate and inflame rather than bring together, we felt we had to take the unusual step of creating a "Best Religion in the World" award and making a bit of a stir, to inspire other religious leaders to see what is possible when you practice compassion."

*Groehlichen said the award was voted on by an international round table of more than 200 religious leaders from every part of the spiritual spectrum. "It was interesting to note that once we supplied the criteria, many religious leaders voted for Buddhism rather than their own religion," said Groehlichen. "Buddhists actually make up a tiny minority of our membership, so it was fascinating but quite exciting that they won."*

Criteria included factors such as promoting personal and community peace, increasing compassion and a sense of connection, and encouraging preservation of the natural environment. Groehlichen continued "The biggest factor for us is that ICARUS was founded by spiritual and religious people to bring the concepts of non-violence to prominence in society. One of the key questions in our voting process was which religion actually practices non-violence."

When presenting the information to the voting members, *ICARUS researched each of the 38 religions on the ballot extensively, offering background, philosophy, and the religions role in government and warfare. Jonna Hult, Director of Research for ICARUS said "It wasn't a surprise to me that Buddhism won Best Religion in the World, because we could find literally not one single instance of a war fought in the name of Buddhism, in contrast to every other religion that seems to keep a gun in the closet just in case God makes a mistake. We were hard pressed to even find a Buddhist that had ever been in an army. These people practice what they preach to an extent we simply could not document with any other spiritual tradition."*

*At least one Catholic priest spoke out on behalf of Buddhism. Father Ted O'Shaughnessy said from Belfast, "As much as I love the Catholic Church, it has always bothered me to no end that we preach love in our scripture yet then claim to know God's will when it comes to killing other humans. For that reason, I did have to cast my vote for the Buddhists." And Muslim Cleric Tal Bin Wassad agreed from Pakistan via his translator. "While I am a devout Muslim, I can see how much anger and bloodshed is channeled into religious expression rather than dealt with on a personal level. The Buddhists have that figured out." Bin Wassad, the ICARUS voting member for Pakistan's Muslim community continued, "In fact, some of my best friends are Buddhist." And Rabbi Shmuel Wasserstein said from Jerusalem, "Of course, I love Judaism, and I think it's the greatest religion in the world. But to be honest, I've been practicing Vipassana meditation every day before minyan (daily Jewish prayer) since 1993. So I get it."*

Groehlichen said that the plan was for the award to Buddhism for "Best Religion in the World" to be given to leaders from the various lineages in the Buddhist community. However, there was one snag. "Basically we can't find anyone to give it to," said Groehlichen in a followup call late Tuesday. "All the Buddhists we call keep saying they don't want the award." Groehlichen explained the strange behavior, saying "Basically they are all saying they are a philosophical tradition, not a religion. But that doesn't change the fact that with this award we acknowledge their philosophy of personal responsibility and personal transformation to be the best in the world and the most important for the challenges facing every individual and all living beings in the coming centuries."

*When asked why the Burmese Buddhist community refused the award, Buddhist monk Bhante Ghurata Hanta said from Burma, "We are grateful for the acknowledgement, but we give this award to all humanity, for Buddha nature lies within each of us." Groehlichen went on to say "We're going to keep calling around until we find a Buddhist who will accept it. We'll let you know when we do."*

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## conworldus

If China becomes Christian I would renounce my nationality, ethnicity all together, because I would be ashamed by the lack of intelligence and reason.

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## justanobserver

Going back in history... Buddhism was meant to reform Hinduism which had become dogmatic and the caste system had hardened.

Under Emperor Ashoka it succeeded to an extent, atheistic concepts were injected back into Hindusim and the caste system was diluted, however the reform stopped because of the invasions from central asia which destroyed many Buddhist universities

There is however an interesting twist  . Dr Br. Ambedkar, called the 'Father of our constitution' was a Dalit but later converted to Theravada Buddhism. He abolished untouchability, outlawed the caste system and introduced positive discrimination

So in a way Buddhism did reform Indian society

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## CardSharp

justanobserver said:


> Going back in history... Buddhism was meant to reform Hinduism which had become dogmatic and the caste system had hardened.
> 
> Under Emperor Ashoka it succeeded to an extent, atheistic concepts were injected back into Hindusim and the caste system was diluted, however the reform stopped because of the invasions from central asia which destroyed many Buddhist universities
> 
> There is however an interesting twist  . Dr Br. Ambedkar, called the 'Father of our constitution' was a Dalit but later converted to Theravada Buddhism. He abolished untouchability, outlawed the caste system and introduced positive discrimination
> 
> So in a way Buddhism did reform Indian society



Not throughly enough.


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## justanobserver

CardSharp said:


> Not throughly enough.


Give it another 40 years

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## Durran3

justanobserver said:


> Going back in history... Buddhism was meant to reform Hinduism which had become dogmatic and the caste system had hardened.
> 
> Under Emperor Ashoka it succeeded to an extent, atheistic concepts were injected back into Hindusim and the caste system was diluted, however the reform stopped because of the invasions from central asia which destroyed many Buddhist universities
> 
> There is however an interesting twist  . Dr Br. Ambedkar, called the 'Father of our constitution' was a Dalit but later converted to Theravada Buddhism. He abolished untouchability, outlawed the caste system and introduced positive discrimination
> 
> So in a way Buddhism did reform Indian society



Thats very interesting.. i didn't know that the father of the Indian constitution was a Dalit.. I doubt you could find a better person to write a constitution than an educated person who has suffered real discrimination on every walk of life.

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## rubyjackass

@Durrani : Ambedkar was a genius in his own right. His hard work was exemplary for all people. He used to be stuck onto some book using up every minute of his spare time. My textbook with his biogrphy says he used to sleep only 2 hrs a day and work for 22!hrs. He was a lawyer by profession and advocated dalits converting into Buddhism where they need not remember their caste. Kicked the casteist Hindu fundamentalists in the face with such measures. The idea of reservations quota also came into effect because of his fight.

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## Jackdaws

Durran3 said:


> Thats very interesting.. i didn't know that the father of the Indian constitution was a Dalit.. I doubt you could find a better person to write a constitution than an educated person who has suffered real discrimination on every walk of life.



Infact, he was as opposed to Gandhi's infusion of religion into the freedom movement as Jinnah was. Or Tagore was for that matter. He was educated in law at Columbia and there is a statue of him there. If he had not accepted the post of heading the constitution - he had the potential of arousing as much passion amongst the Dalits as Jinnah had in the Muslims. For the record, the Dalits were then patronizingly called "Harijans".

If I remember correctly, he died a deeply disillusioned man.

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## Chinese-Dragon

rubyjackass said:


> Ambedkar was a genius in his own right. His hard work was exemplary for all people. He used to be stuck onto some book using up every minute of his spare time. My textbook with his biogrphy says he used to sleep only 2 hrs a day and work for 22!hrs. He was a lawyer by profession and advocated dalits converting into Buddhism where they need not remember their caste. Kicked the casteist Hindu fundamentalists in the face with such measures. The idea of reservations quota also came into effect because of his fight.



He was an impressive man, no doubt about it.


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## CardSharp

rubyjackass said:


> @Durrani : Ambedkar was a genius in his own right. His hard work was exemplary for all people. He used to be stuck onto some book using up every minute of his spare time. My textbook with his biogrphy says he used to sleep only 2 hrs a day and work for 22!hrs. He was a lawyer by profession and advocated dalits converting into Buddhism where they need not remember their caste. Kicked the casteist Hindu fundamentalists in the face with such measures. The idea of reservations quota also came into effect because of his fight.



Casteism is a fundamental offence to modernity.

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## Chogy

CardSharp said:


> Karma as the ultimate form of cosmic justice would be nice, but... bad things happen to good people and bad people take good things for themselves. There just isn't any evidence that such a thing exists.



In Buddhism, doesn't the Karmic justice take place after one dies? So you can be an evil drug lord your whole life, and die in riches, but in your next life, you might end up a poor blind beggar or something. Not sure, that may be an incorrect interpretation.


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## CardSharp

Chogy said:


> In Buddhism, doesn't the Karmic justice take place after one dies? So you can be an evil drug lord your whole life, and die in riches, but in your next life, you might end up a poor blind beggar or something. Not sure, that may be an incorrect interpretation.



Hmmmm you maybe right. I was more addressing those hateful people who point to natural disasters as karmic justice for a country being tolerant to homosexuality.


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## ChineseTiger1986

For China, i see Islam isn't a problem, but Christianity is!!!


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## The Clarifier

Durran3 said:


> Christianity is growing at a staggering rate in Africa as well..
> 
> As much as I dislike fundo Christians at least the Christians tend to integrate into society just fine where as Muslims once they grow tend to want to separate and claim their own land...not much of an issue if you ask me.. Spreading of Christianity or Judaism isn't half as bad....



You must either be:

1. Ashamed of being a Muslim
2. Ashamed of being a Pakistani. We were born of religion.


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## Peacefulll

CardSharp said:


> Hmmmm you maybe right. I was more addressing those hateful people who point to natural disasters as karmic justice for a country being tolerant to homosexuality.



Who made that statement?


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## Gold1010

The Clarifier said:


> You must either be:
> 
> 1. Ashamed of being a Muslim
> 2. Ashamed of being a Pakistani. We were born of religion.



If hes speaking his opinion how is he ashamed of being a muslim?


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## Developereo

Passionate members of all belief systems try to 'convert' people to their beliefs, whether its religion, atheism or any other philosophy. It is human nature to be proud of your beliefs (otherwise you wouldn't keep them) and to explain them to others.

The only problem happens when coersion is used.



Durran3 said:


> As much as I dislike fundo Christians at least the Christians tend to integrate into society just fine where as Muslims once they grow tend to want to separate and claim their own land...not much of an issue if you ask me.. Spreading of Christianity or Judaism isn't half as bad....



That is simply not true.

You can take selective snapshots to substantiate any claim. For example, by using the Amish example, you can claim that Christians don't integrate. Or take Orthodox Jews and you can claim that Jews don't integrate. If you look within Israel, there are tremendous ethnic tensions which are only kept in check because of the external threat.

The problem is that certain elements in the West focus on the Islamic immigrants who don't integrate, rather than the vast majority of mainstream Muslims.

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## ptldM3

Nomenclature said:


> *Christianity is the single most unpleasant religion in China.*




The only thing unpleasant is you! What is it that is 'unpleasant' about Christianity? Have Christians somehow ruined you? Or taken something from you? 

Clearly you are a bigot.



Nomenclature said:


> *No one else is bent on converting others except Christians*. Picture the most evangelical fundamentalist, that's what Chinese Christians are like.






Clearly you know nothing about religion, never mind Christianity.





Nomenclature said:


> Fortunately Christianity in China is mostly a rural/small town affair, with modernization and rapid urbanization, *it will eventually be eradicated*.





Good luck eradicating a religion that has been around in China for hundreds of years, never mind the fact that it's a growing religion...



below_freezing said:


> *You're free to be a Christian overseas but I would like China to be a predominantly Buddhist and Atheist nation*.




Than how would you like it if Buddhists particularly Chinese Buddhists living overseas were harassed and told that they and their religion is not welcome? 

Christianity has been around in China for a long time, Chinese Christians do not need permission from you or other Chinese to exercise *their* beliefs in *their* country.



below_freezing said:


> *Please do not try to convert me*, you will only be seeking humiliation.




What makes you think that all of Chinese Christians are converted? There is a thing called free will, and we can stop the whole 'conversion' nonsense right now. I have never had anyone try to convert me, as a matter of fact I had some acquaintances that were devoutly Christian but never mentioned Jesus or God in front of me, infact of all the millions of people I have come across, and many were Christian, I have never met anyone that tried to convert me.

Infact i know a former Buddhists that converted to Christianity by his own free will, i bet that got some blood boiling 




CardSharp said:


> If you want to see the crazy mess you get when you mix east asians and christianity just look to Korea.





Yes look at South Korea, wealth, power, prosperity, and progression, just like with most Christian nations or nations founded on Christianity.

If Christianity bothers you so much why are you living in a country founded by and dominated by Christians? If it is that bad of a 'crazy mess' than move to a country of atheists or whatever else you prefer.




CardSharp said:


> I remember news from a couple of years ago, where a korean girl was severely beaten by her pastor and her family for not attending church often enough.



This is a cheap low blow, this kind of behavior can be found in every religion, you act like this is normal or tolerated. Giving one example and saying just look at so and so is a weak argument.


below_freezing said:


> no they're below prostitutes. prostitutes deserve sympathy and help from the government, *christians need to be stamped out like a bug*. or at least kept from disturbing others.



I hate to say it but this is racist.

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## ChineseTiger1986

This article isn't accurate in many aspects, Christianity in China is still almost an Alien culture/religion, unlike Islam which many Chinese people recognized it as part legacy of the 56 ethnic groups. If you guys want to East Asian country with predominant Christians, then i suggest you should go to South Korea, not PRC.

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## no_name

I guess one of the reason why people gets put off by christianity is the reasoning that all people are sinners and somehow if you are not converting to christianity other christians tends to feel you are different from them. There is this very subtle but apparent notion of you somehow not in the same group as them. It tends to promote more exclusion and divides than an all mixing environment, which is what chinese culture leans more on. Not all christians are exclusive but just saying there is this subtle attempt to distinguish between themselves and others.

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## no_name

Chogy said:


> In Buddhism, doesn't the Karmic justice take place after one dies? So you can be an evil drug lord your whole life, and die in riches, but in your next life, you might end up a poor blind beggar or something. Not sure, that may be an incorrect interpretation.



According to buddhist teachings Karma could take place at anytime when the condition is right. Your action is like planting seeds into soil. It may lay dormant for any length of time but given the right condition (sunlight, water) the seed will germinate and bear fruit. Therefore what you experience now could be the result of your action any number of lifetimes before, or just yeaterday.

i.e. If you don't study for exam, you will fail. If you don't fail, you wasted your time doing something not very meaningful that you could've put into better use, and it may came back to bite you when you need the skills you are learning now in the future. If you put work off now, you have to work harder later.

Everything that people do actually influences their mind subtlely, a thief, a gangster, or a murderer can never live the same quality of life that a person with a healthy mind can have. When you die, this subconscious effect is activated (for lack of a better word) and becomes a powerful driving force. Thus people see their actions flashing through their heads in near death conditions. If you're not proud of what you did during your life, then it will affect your emotions strongly and then your aspirations will pull you through to your next life. One should not try to think that they can control this process because like a dream your mind will be overwhelmed by emotions, desires and fears that were otherwise masked by your conscious mind in your everyday activities. Thus it is important for people to die a calm and graceful death (not counting accidents) as your last thought/feeling has a heavy weighting on deciding your next life.

Buddhism does not advocate people living life passively, as your karma can be influenced by your action. Also it does not mean you should do harm to others and justify it on Karma, as that person may not deserve it and you could be adding to your karma. By same reasoning not everything happening to you may be a result of your karma.

This whole thing needs not have a right or wrong standard to it. Ignorance causes unskillful action to be taken, this produces karma between people. If two people with bad karma between them tries to 'repay' each other through their lives, then this process will potentially never end. All suffering comes from people dividing themselves off from others and forcing a friendly side and an opponent side.

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## ChineseTiger1986

I absolutely agree, Christianity holds the belief that men are born with sin, whereas the traditional Chinese philosophy believes human nature is always good. Two incompatible ideology can't integrate together. Our Chinese society has absolutely no need of Christianity, the Western world should keep it for themselves.

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## ptldM3

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I absolutely agree, Christianity holds the belief that men are born with sin, whereas the traditional Chinese philosophy believes human nature is always good. Two incompatible ideology can't integrate together. Our Chinese society has absolutely no need of Christianity, *the Western world should keep it for themselves*.



You live in a Western country, you bring your values and believes to a predominately Christian nation but reject the idea of Christian integration into China 

I also find it disgusting how some Chinese members are plainly being racist by saying 'Christianity should be squashed like a bug' and that there is no place for Christianity in China, but at the same time many of those same Chinese live in Christian dominated nations, how ironic. What if those Christian nations decided that they did not want atheists and Buddhists? Doesn't sound fair or justified now does it? So why are Buddhists the exception?


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## Jigs

Wow pages of anti-christian rant. Did the Mods review this thread ? Let us not produce any type of double standard here.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ptldM3 said:


> You live in a Western country, you bring your values and believes to a predominately Christian nation but reject the idea of Christian integration into China
> 
> I also find it disgusting how some Chinese members are plainly being racist by saying 'Christianity should be squashed like a bug' and that there is no place for Christianity in China, but at the same time many of those same Chinese live in Christian dominated nations, how ironic. What if those Christian nations decided that they did not want atheists and Buddhists? Doesn't sound fair or justified now does it? So why are Buddhists the exception?



There is no need to lump us Chinese people together as if we are one monolithic entity, that all share the same opinion.

I know plenty of Chinese Christians where I live, I have never once felt any urge to tell them that there was something wrong with what they believe in. 

I have never once felt the urge to tell them that they must give up their Chinese citizenship because they have a different belief system to mine.

If you have a problem with some posts, then you can report them.

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## ChineseTiger1986

ptldM3 said:


> You live in a Western country, you bring your values and believes to a predominately Christian nation but reject the idea of Christian integration into China
> 
> I also find it disgusting how some Chinese members are plainly being racist by saying 'Christianity should be squashed like a bug' and that there is no place for Christianity in China, but at the same time many of those same Chinese live in Christian dominated nations, how ironic. What if those Christian nations decided that they did not want atheists and Buddhists? Doesn't sound fair or justified now does it? So why are Buddhists the exception?



Buddhism is not exactly a religion, but rather an Atheistic philosophy. Since the Chinese people are predominantly Atheists/Agnostics, Buddhism can be integrated into our society. 

So what if i live in a Christian country? It is my freedom to be an Atheist.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Buddhism is not exactly a religion, but rather an Atheistic philosophy.



That's right. The Buddha specifically rejected the idea of a creator God, so Buddhists are technically Atheists.

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## ptldM3

conworldus said:


> If China becomes Christian I would renounce my nationality, ethnicity all together, because *I would be ashamed by the lack of intelligence and reason*.




Wow and you do realize that some of the most briliant scientists and inventors were Christian correct?

Does Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei, or Max Planck ring an bells? Who was it that invented things such as the first aircraft and automobile?

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## siegecrossbow

ptldM3 said:


> Wow and you do realize that some of the most briliant scientists and inventors were Christian correct?
> 
> Does Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei, or Max Planck ring an bells? Who was it that invented things such as the first aircraft and automobile?



Minor correction:

I've always thought that Newton was more of a Deist than a Christian. Galileo, on the on the other hand, was a traditional Catholic through and through. You do have to admit that the Church did interfere with Galileo's works though.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ptldM3 said:


> Wow and you do realize that some of the most briliant scientists and inventors were Christian correct?
> 
> Does Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei, or Max Planck ring an bells? Who was it that invented things such as the first aircraft and automobile?



I've said it before and I'll say it again, some of the most intelligent people I know are Christians. Yes, CHINESE Christians, many of whom are family members of mine.

When judging someone's intelligence, I don't think I'll never need to refer to their racial background or religious beliefs. It's simply not relevant.

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## ChineseTiger1986

ptldM3 said:


> Wow and you do realize that some of the most briliant scientists and inventors were Christian correct?
> 
> Does Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei, or Max Planck ring an bells? Who was it that invented things such as the first aircraft and automobile?



At least Atheists made your country a dominant Superpower of the 20th century. Now under Christianity, your country has officially became a weakling that has a GDP only 1/10 of the American...ops

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## ptldM3

Chinese-Dragon said:


> *There is no need to lump us Chinese people together as if we are one monolithic entity, that all share the same opinion.*I know plenty of Chinese Christians where I live, I have never once felt any urge to tell them that there was something wrong with what they believe in.



When did I lump Chinese people together I explicitly used the words 'some Chinese members' I did not say all, and my view still stands against those racists fanatics.




ChineseTiger1986 said:


> *So what if i live in a Christian country? It is my freedom to be an Atheist.*



The problem is that you live in a Christian dominated nation and you are free to exercise your believes as you wish. However, at the other end of the spectrum you and others like you are rejecting and denouncing Christianity in China, do not tell me that this is fair or just, what if there was 'no place' for people like you in Canada or elsewhere?


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## Chinese-Dragon

ptldM3 said:


> When did I lump Chinese people together I explicitly used the words 'some Chinese members' I did not say all, and my view still stands against those racists fanatics.



OK maybe I misunderstood your posts. Apologies for that, you clearly took the effort to say "some" and I respect that.



ptldM3 said:


> The problem is that you live in a Christian dominated nation and you are free to exercise your believes as you wish. However, at the other end of the spectrum you and others like you are rejecting and denouncing Christianity in China, do not tell me that this is fair or just, *what if there was 'no place' for people like you in Canada or elsewhere?*



I still don't get this. Even IF I wanted to say that Christianity has no place in China (which I clearly don't believe) then what can I do about it? I don't exactly have the authority to relieve anyone of their citizenship...

Plus I can hardly tell my own family members that they should renounce their citizenship, just because they are Christians.

There are plenty of far-right political parties, like the British National Party, and Geert Wilders Freedom party, that believe Muslims should not be in Europe. But what can they do about it?

An example in Russia would be "Russian National Unity". Tell me, do the RNU believe that Chinese people should be allowed to have Russian citizenship? No, they advocate expulsion. Clearly there are people in all countries who share such far-right opinions.

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## ptldM3

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> *At least Atheists made your country a dominant Superpower of the 20th century*. Now under Christianity, your country has officially became a weakling that has a GDP only 1/10 of the American...ops



And yet the Soviet union was still largely Christian. As for Russia being a 'weakling' the economy has been seeing steady growth since the last decade and when you consider that the collapse of the Soviet Union was three times worse than the great American depression the state of the economy is in a good place. 

As if degrading Christianity was not enough now my country gets degraded....stay classy.




siegecrossbow said:


> Minor correction:
> 
> I've always thought that Newton was more of a Deist than a Christian. Galileo, on the on the other hand, was a traditional Catholic through and through. You do have to admit that the Church did interfere with Galileo's works though.




There were many Christian scientis that had views which interfered with the church.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Most modern scientists believe the evolutionary theories, and Christians reject it and believe the creationism. 

How can the most successful scientists being those backward minded Christians?

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## Water Car Engineer

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> *Most modern scientists believe the evolutionary theories, and Christians reject it and believe the creationism. *
> 
> How can the most successful scientists being those backward minded Christians?



I agree with you, but you will offend Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, etc on this forum who believe the same.


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## ChineseTiger1986

ptldM3 said:


> And* yet the Soviet union was still largely Christian*. As for Russia being a 'weakling' the economy has been seeing steady growth since the last decade and when you consider that the collapse of the Soviet Union was three times worse than the great American depression the state of the economy is in a good place.
> 
> As if degrading Christianity was not enough now my country gets degraded....stay classy.
> 
> 
> There were many Christian scientis that had views which interfered with the church.



Those important figures weren't Christians. Lenin and Stalin weren't Christians. Most scientists weren't Christians, only those superstitious peasants lived in rural areas were Christians, who also likely contribute the largest population within the country.

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## no_name

My believe is that most chinese that have trouble with religion do not oppose it for the sake of opposing it but out of concerns for possible impacts it may have on society.

They are more worried that religion will be used as a tool for influencing people who are not well informed. An religion that has a diety and set of codes to follow allows unscrupulus people to tell people what is right and wrong in the name of god. And as god's words are never wrong it has potentials to produce some very dogmatic people. One of the things that made chinese more open to buddhism is the underlying tenet that you should never do anything to harm another person, even if he disagrees with you. (infact even if he went out of his way to cause you trouble) Nowadays there are even chinese who does not like buddhism, as they reasoned that it might make a country weak, it's people meek and unwilling to fight injustice.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Varghese said:


> I agree with you, but you will offend Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, etc on this forum who believe the same.



I mean those hardcore Christian fanatics, i've met many moderate Christians who can be very agreeable with the Atheists. Each group has its own radical and moderate individuals.

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## Ras

justanobserver said:


> Going back in history... Buddhism was meant to reform Hinduism which had become dogmatic and the caste system had hardened.
> 
> Under Emperor Ashoka it succeeded to an extent, atheistic concepts were injected back into Hindusim and the caste system was diluted, however the reform stopped *because of the invasions from central asia which destroyed many Buddhist universities
> *
> There is however an interesting twist  . Dr Br. Ambedkar, called the 'Father of our constitution' was a Dalit but later converted to Theravada Buddhism. He abolished untouchability, outlawed the caste system and introduced positive discrimination
> 
> So in a way Buddhism did reform Indian society




Not true...Adi Sankracharya almost singlehandedly converted India from Buddhism back into Hinduism. If he was not born today India would have been a majority Buddhist country.


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## below_freezing

modern society is incompatible with these beliefs. how can you innovate when the explaination for everything is god did it.

why is energy quantized? god did it. how does DNA store information? DNA doesn't exist, your traits are determined by god. should we be gassing all those vietnamese? yes, because they're godless commies.

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## siegecrossbow

Just my five cents:

There are many overseas Chinese who are Christians and the majority are not disagreeable at all and many are very educated people (engineers or faculties in Universities). Most of them are very nice people and will not try to "force convert you" and our family gets along well even with those who are "over-enthusiastic". 

Judging from the posts I think a lot of Chinese members here probably had bad experiences with Christians.


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## ptldM3

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Those important figures weren't Christians. Lenin and Stalin weren't Christians. Most scientists weren't Christians, only those superstitious peasants lived in rural areas were Christians, who also likely contribute the largest population within the country.



Stalin was one of the worst things to happen to in the Soviet Union, as for your claim that most scientists were not Christian, that is nothing more than an opionion.


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## Chinese-Dragon

ptldM3 said:


> Stalin was one of the worst things to happen to in the Soviet Union, as for your claim that most scientists were not Christian, that is nothing more than an opionion.



Any chance of answering my post?

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## ptldM3

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Any chance of answering my post?



What post?


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## Chinese-Dragon

ptldM3 said:


> What post?



The one at the top of this page, #241. I'll summarise it here.



ptldM3 said:


> What if there was 'no place' for people like you in Canada or elsewhere?



I have listed plenty of organisations that believe there is "no place" for Chinese people in their countries, such as the BNP in Britain, and the RNU in Russia.

What happens, is that I ignore them.... because I realize that there will be such extremist voices in every country.

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## ChineseTiger1986

ptldM3 said:


> Stalin was one of the worst things to happen to in the Soviet Union, as for your claim that most scientists were not Christian, that is nothing more than an opionion.



Dude, i am not a big fan of Stalin and he did many harms to China, but as a Russian, you can't deny his contribution to your country. It was under his reign, Russia has achieved her Superpower status. Both Stalin and Tsar were dictators, but i would say that Stalin was a much more brillian dictator, at least he was capable to push his country into path of Superpower, whereas Tsar has bankrupted Russia into a sh!thole. 

I'd say that Stalin is about 70&#37; of correctness and 30% of mistake for his country, just like Mao for China. 

You can't deny that USSR was fundamentally built by Atheists!

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## ptldM3

Very well, i will aswer your post.






Chinese-Dragon said:


> Plus I can hardly tell my own family members that they should renounce their citizenship, just because they are Christians.




It was another member that said he would renouce his citizenship if China was ever Christian, so i don't understand why your defending yourself for his view.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> There are plenty of far-right political parties, like the British National Party, and Geert Wilders Freedom party, that believe Muslims should not be in Europe. But what can they do about it?
> 
> An example in Russia would be "Russian National Unity". Tell me, do the RNU believe that Chinese people should be allowed to have Russian citizenship? No, they advocate expulsion. Clearly there are people in all countries who share such far-right opinions.




Every country has bigots, my problem is with people being bais towards one affiliation, or in other words having unfair veiws of segregation.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ptldM3 said:


> Every country has bigots, my problem is with people being bais towards one affiliation, or in other words having unfair veiws of segregation.



Thanks for answering my question. 

That's my conclusion as well.



ptldM3 said:


> It was another member that said he would renouce his citizenship if China was ever Christian, so i don't understand why your defending yourself for his view.



I was responding to this:



ptldM3 said:


> *What if there was 'no place' for people like you in Canada or elsewhere?*



Like I said... there are plenty of people, in many places, that believe there is "no place" for Chinese people in their countries. Two examples of such political organisations would be the BNP in Britain, and the RNU in Russia.

I quickly learn to ignore such voices. They clearly do not represent the majority opinion.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Anyway, claiming that Christianity invents everything is just as real as the Earth was created around 10,000 BC.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Anyway, claiming that Christianity invents everything is just as real as the Earth was created in around 10,000BC.



Not all Christians believe that.

That's only the "Young-Earth Creationists" who believe that the world is 10,000 years old.

Most of my Christian friends do not go for a "literal interpretation" of the Bible. They fully accept the Scientific method and believe in the theory of evolution, this has been my personal experience anyway.

And they have always respected my personal beliefs (I'm an atheist). That's all that matters to me.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Not all Christians believe that.
> 
> That's only the "Young-Earth Creationists" who believe that the world is 10,000 years old.
> 
> Most of my Christian friends do not go for a "literal interpretation" of the Bible. They fully accept the Scientific method and believe in the theory of evolution, this has been my personal experience anyway.
> 
> And they have always respected my personal beliefs (I'm an atheist), so I have no complaints about them at all.



These so-called Christians have very close belief to the Atheists, except they might insist that the existence of the Universe was involved with God's creation. Even many Athesists accept that there is unknown power behind the creation of the Universe, these Athesists are labelled as Agnostics. 

But our friend ptld claiming that Christians invent everything, i hereby disagree with his condescending attitude that Christians are the most superior people. Even some very success people have been labelled as Christian in his/her religious profile, but many of these people might have shared many beliefs with Atheists, not those fanatics who insist that Earth was created in 7 days around 10,000 BC.

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## siegecrossbow

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> These so-called Christians have very close belief to the Atheists, except they might insist that the existence of the Universe was involved with God's creation. Even many Athesists accept that there is unknown power behind the creation of the Universe, these Athesists are labelled as Agnostics.



Ahem those are Deists... Agnostics are those who aren't sure whether God exists or not (due to limited Human Knowledge).

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## Chinese-Dragon

siegecrossbow said:


> Ahem those are Deists... Agnostics are those who aren't sure whether God exists or not (due to limited Human Knowledge).



Yes, some of these definitions are tricky. 

For example there is a huge overlap between "atheist" and "agnostic" etc. 

Even most "non-religious people" could technically be called atheists if you go by the strict definition. I'm guessing a lot of them wouldn't appreciate that though.


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## ptldM3

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> *But our friend ptld claiming that Christians invent everything*, i hereby disagree with his condescending attitude that Christians are the most superior people. Even some very success people have been labelled as Christian in his/her religious profile, but maybe of these people might have shared many beliefs with Atheists, not those fanatics who insist that Earth was created in 7 days around 10,000 BC.



I never claimed that, my response was to this:



> If China becomes Christian I would renounce my nationality, ethnicity all together, because *I would be ashamed by the lack of intelligence and reason.*




I then mentioned some notable Christians and their inventions. The issue here is the claim that Christians lack 'intelligence and reason'. This is just nonesense, that has been debunked; and agan i stand by my claim that many notable scientific figures were Christian and some of the most important inventions were created by Christians dispite the fact that some regard Christians as lacking intellegence and reason. To make my point clear, i never said that Christians invented 'everything' as *you* claim.


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## ChineseTiger1986

siegecrossbow said:


> Ahem those are Deists... Agnostics are those who aren't sure whether God exists or not (due to limited Human Knowledge).



Sure, many Atheists are actually Agnostics, but it depends the level of persistence of that person who believes or rejects the existance of supernatural.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ptldM3 said:


> I stand by my claim that many notable scientific figures were Christian and some of the most important inventions were created by Christians dispite the fact that some regard Christians as lacking intellegence and reason.



That's fair enough, I won't argue with you there.

You were responding to a flame, and you responded with rational facts.

Let's move on guys.


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## oceanx

Just doing my Saturday PDF drive by (yes, time is such a premium these days ...) But this occasion calls for the emptying of a clip or two from my own rusty AK:

In no particular order:



SinoSoldier said:


> Why? Will the religion be superior to Christianity?
> 
> Christianity will bring China closer to the West.



This statement will be less spiritually "criminal" had the "West" been more of a paragon of Christian virtue - especially lately.

It's not up to me to judge when you turn "Donme" for the sake of survival. After all, I, too, believe in being "harmless as doves and wise as serpents" ... 

But to practice "Al-Taqiyya" for material gain is beyond contempt.

Christians are _not _"&#20551;&#27915;&#39740;&#23376;". You'd do well to remember that, sino-so-called-soldier!




BENNY said:


> Islam Watch - "History of Jihad in China Buddhists" (Islam Chinese Muslims in China) - by History of Jihad



Stop posting garbage from this garbage site, Benny! I don't mind a website operated by self-styled "Muslim apostates" or Christian "apostates" - so long as they bring real history and not fake propaganda to the table. Battle of Talas has something to do with "Islamization" of Central Asia. It has nothing to do with the Huis in China. The Huis claim to have descended from Persian zoroastrians predating Buddhists, Persian/Arab traders of all stripes, and even the cavalry sent to the Tangs by Abbasids to quell interal rebellion (&#23433;&#21490;&#20043;&#20081 ...

And it was the Mongols who brought the greatest number of Muslims to China as soldiers and administrators. Some of the most important generals of the first Ming emperor were Hui muslims ((e.g. &#34013;&#29577;, &#24464;&#36798;, etc. ...)

Now that's (generally accepted) history fact.

And stop this "Jihad" everything non-sense.




below_freezing said:


> Number of people killed in China by Christianity: 20 million within past 200 years.
> Number of people killed in China by Islam: 200 in the past 200 years.
> 
> I don't know about other places, so I do not comment, but in China. Christianity has always led to wars.



Perhaps you could join the above "apostates" in putting up your own "ChristianityWatch" website and peddle your own patented wild statements.

Do they teach you anything in Wuhan? Have you heard of &#30333;&#24421;&#34382; or &#21516;&#27835;&#38485;&#29976;&#22238;&#21464; (see here for those who prefer English)?

And later on you claim Taiping Rebellion was a "Christian" movement! Is there no end to your absurdities? Is there nothing but hot air in that space between your ears, if you don't mind me asking?

If you have to attach a group to Taiping Rebellion, then I would attach the Hakka as the "sub-ethnicity/group" behind it.




below_freezing said:


> no they're below prostitutes. prostitutes deserve sympathy and help from the government, christians need to be stamped out like a bug. or at least kept from disturbing others.


Once a &#25331;&#21290;, always a &#25331;&#21290;. As I said before, we'll see who gets "stamped out" and when.


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## ChineseTiger1986

ptldM3 said:


> I never claimed that, my response was to this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then mentioned some notable Christians and their inventions. The issue here is the claim that Christians lack 'intelligence and reason'. This is just nonesense, that has been debunked; and agan i stand by my claim that many notable scientific figures were Christian and some of the most important inventions were created by Christians dispite the fact that some regard Christians as lacking intellegence and reason. To make my point clear, i never said that Christians invented 'everything' as *you* claim.



I pointed out earlier that these Chrisitians who don't follow what bible said actually share many beliefs with Agnostics, no doubt there are many smart people within this group. But sure other bible freaks are just dumb as hell.


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## oceanx

Now the less egregious:



Nomenclature said:


> Christianity is the single most unpleasant religion in China. No one else is bent on converting others except Christians. Picture the most evangelical fundamentalist, that's what Chinese Christians are like.
> 
> Fortunately Christianity in China is mostly a rural/small town affair, with modernization and rapid urbanization, it will eventually be eradicated.





CardSharp said:


> You must be dense or blind. Proselytism is written into the bible. Do you think that Christianity would be the world largest religion if they took no for an answer? I've personally missed being "converted" many times, some of the tricks they pulled especially consider my age then was despicable.
> 
> Proselytism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






CardSharp said:


> I'm not against religion IF the practitioners can adapt a live and let live attitude, not be the root of bigotry and conflict, not impede the progress of science, let children choose their own religion when they are mentally mature enough to make the decision.
> 
> needless to say, very few religions get my stamp of approval (not that they care)



As much as I regret it, I must say that there is validity to such perceptions regarding the current practice of evangelism. 

As a Christian personally, I make *no apologies* - none whatsoever, for proselytizing. People are free to spread what they consider to be _good tidings_. And you are _free_ to reject what you think is "bad news".

The key is to do so free of coercion as this sensible post points out.

An equally sensible post is this one where the man (I presume) stresses that "_conversion comes from within_".

I didn't know Tony Blair's sister converted to Islam btw. But I will say this: if I didn't have "religion" and I have the misfortune of a brother who sold his and his nation's souls to some criminal enterprise all in the name of fighting "gog and magog", I'd be converting to something else, too ...

Praise the Lord I'm an only child, just like the other 500 million me-me-me's in the land of "godless kommunism" ...

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## siegecrossbow

Oceanx is back with a vengeance lol.

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## TruthSeeker

It is perfectly reasonable that China would become the largest Christian Nation. #1, the Chinese are the most intelligent ethnic group on the planet (except , possibly, Jews.). #2, Christianity is the most beneficial religion for human beings to follow for peace and prosperity. #3, because of #1 and #2, China will become the most Christian nation in the world as it rises in both economic and social success, because Christianity is simpatico with Confucianism.

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## Chinese-Dragon

TruthSeeker said:


> It is perfectly reasonable that China would become the largest Christian Nation. #1, the Chinese are the most intelligent ethnic group on the planet (except , possibly, Jews.). #2, Christianity is the most beneficial religion for human beings to follow for peace and prosperity. #3, because of #1 and #2, China will become the most Christian nati0on in the world as it rises in both economic and social success, because Christianity is simpatico with Confucianism.



I think China also has the biggest number of "non-religious" people in the world, so there is a big opportunity there for expansion.

Either way I don't mind. It doesn't matter to me what faith my fellow countrymen choose to believe in, I'll respect their decision.

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## siegecrossbow

Well to be fair I can't think of one religion whose morals aren't compatible with Confucianism.


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## Aeon

Personally I'd like to see China get back to being primarily Buddhist + Taoist + Confucian. 

But of course no problem however they decide.


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## below_freezing

oceanx said:


> Just doing my Saturday PDF drive by (yes, time is such a premium these days ...) But this occasion calls for the emptying of a clip or two from my own rusty AK:
> 
> In no particular order:
> 
> 
> 
> This statement will be less spiritually "criminal" had the "West" been more of a paragon of Christian virtue - especially lately.
> 
> It's not up to me to judge when you turn "Donme" for the sake of survival. After all, I, too, believe in being "harmless as doves and wise as serpents" ...
> 
> But to practice "Al-Taqiyya" for material gain is beyond contempt.
> 
> Christians are _not _"&#20551;&#27915;&#39740;&#23376;". You'd do well to remember that, sino-so-called-soldier!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop posting garbage from this garbage site, Benny! I don't mind a website operated by self-styled "Muslim apostates" or Christian "apostates" - so long as they bring real history and not fake propaganda to the table. Battle of Talas has something to do with "Islamization" of Central Asia. It has nothing to do with the Huis in China. The Huis claim to have descended from Persian zoroastrians predating Buddhists, Persian/Arab traders of all stripes, and even the cavalry sent to the Tangs by Abbasids to quell interal rebellion (&#23433;&#21490;&#20043;&#20081 ...
> 
> And it was the Mongols who brought the greatest number of Muslims to China as soldiers and administrators. Some of the most important generals of the first Ming emperor were Hui muslims ((e.g. &#34013;&#29577;, &#24464;&#36798;, etc. ...)
> 
> Now that's (generally accepted) history fact.
> 
> And stop this "Jihad" everything non-sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you could join the above "apostates" in putting up your own "ChristianityWatch" website and peddle your own patented wild statements.
> 
> Do they teach you anything in Wuhan? Have you heard of &#30333;&#24421;&#34382; or &#21516;&#27835;&#38485;&#29976;&#22238;&#21464; (see here for those who prefer English)?
> 
> And later on you claim Taiping Rebellion was a "Christian" movement! Is there no end to your absurdities? Is there nothing but hot air in that space between your ears, if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> If you have to attach a group to Taiping Rebellion, then I would attach the Hakka as the "sub-ethnicity/group" behind it.
> 
> 
> 
> Once a &#25331;&#21290;, always a &#25331;&#21290;. As I said before, we'll see who gets "stamped out" and when.



you're too good at english and not good enough at math, physics and chemistry. people too good at languages and especially too good at english think too much and are manipulative, and the choice of the people has it that our leaders should be engineers instead of manipulative lawyers. can't you quantify your arguments?

and i'm very sure that christianity will be stamped out in china, or at least heavily controlled (otherwise we will be living in shithole qing dynasty again). 5 things matter in life: power, money, fun, country, family. everything we do is for one of these 5 things. religion gives none of that unless you're the leader... which from your stance, it seems very likely that you are one of the interest groups associated with religious leadership, and making huge money.


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## oceanx

below_freezing said:


> you're too good at english and not good enough at math, physics and chemistry. people too good at languages and especially too good at english think too much and are manipulative, and the choice of the people has it that our leaders should be engineers instead of manipulative lawyers. can't you quantify your arguments?



??!! You know anything about how I performed in "quantitative sciences" back in the days? 

That's right. Talk wildly about English, physics, engineers, lawyers ... anything but to own up to the _plain fact_ that you know next to nothing about either the history of Islam or Christianity in China.

That works. Don't man up and acknowledge your own ignorance. Instead let's obfuscate and "quantitize" the argument ...




below_freezing said:


> ... and i'm very sure that christianity will be stamped out in china, or at least heavily controlled (otherwise we will be living in shithole qing dynasty again). 5 things matter in life: power, money, fun, country, family. everything we do is for one of these 5 things. religion gives none of that unless you're the leader... which from your stance, it seems very likely that you are one of the interest groups associated with religious leadership, and making huge money.



Aha! Even a c0ck-sure atheist can claim to be a prophet. Are you sure you are "very sure"?

Okay oracle, if you say so. First of all, whether or not Christianity will be "stamped out" anywhere - even in China, is not up to you.

Nor is it up to me.

Developing the thoughts here further will venture into the realm of full-fledged discourse on theology, which is against forum policies. 

BTW, I understand very well your rant about the "5 things". Take it from me that Uncle Joe had said it 1,000,000 times better than you could (how's that for "quantitative"?) when he asked:

"How many divisions does the pope have?"​
Anyways, let me say it again, some things are not up to you or me. And we'll leave it at that.

Finally, I am familiar with certain red guard tactics of smearing the motives of those you disagree with - including the insinuation of financial gain. No I don't make money from "religion". I give money to churches and charities just because. It doesn't necessarily have to do with religion. Atheists and agnostics give to the poor and to charities.

But if you appreciate my effort in trying against odds to replace the hot air in your head with something of a little more value, and wish to compensate my time with a bundle of RMB, I'll be glad to direct your funds to the charities of my choice.


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## gambit

below_freezing said:


> and i'm very sure that christianity will be stamped out in china, or at least heavily controlled ...


Ah...Good to know that the Chinese government has religious oppression in reserve.


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## Tractor

How to be Christian&#65311;Too simple-enter churchs and say some words like 'my god'.Every day many Chinese enter Notre Dame.

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## AR

I think christian groups want the expansion of their religion...

even here too 2-3 years back we faced similar problems


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## siegecrossbow

gambit said:


> Ah...Good to know that the Chinese government has religious oppression in reserve.



How does this indicate that there is religious oppression in reserve?


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## Developereo

oceanx said:


> As a Christian personally, I make *no apologies* - none whatsoever, for proselytizing. People are free to spread what they consider to be _good tidings_. And you are _free_ to reject what you think is "bad news".



Exactly.

What I find disingenuous, even in this very thread and in general, are all these self-righteous proponents of Buddhism, Hinduism, this-ism and that-ism who berate the Abrahamic religions for proselytizing and then turn right around and extol the virtues of their own faith.

Hindu temples in the West have outreach centers where non-believers may come and experience the faith. Same with Buddhism. But when mosques or churches have open houses, somehow it becomes an evil plan to conquer the infidels.

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## below_freezing

oceanx said:


> ??!! You know anything about how I performed in "quantitative sciences" back in the days?
> 
> That's right. Talk wildly about English, physics, engineers, lawyers ... anything but to own up to the _plain fact_ that you know next to nothing about either the history of Islam or Christianity in China.
> 
> That works. Don't man up and acknowledge your own ignorance. Instead let's obfuscate and "quantitize" the argument ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aha! Even a c0ck-sure atheist can claim to be a prophet. Are you sure you are "very sure"?
> 
> Okay oracle, if you say so. First of all, whether or not Christianity will be "stamped out" anywhere - even in China, is not up to you.
> 
> Nor is it up to me.
> 
> Developing the thoughts here further will venture into the realm of full-fledged discourse on theology, which is against forum policies.
> 
> BTW, I understand very well your rant about the "5 things". Take it from me that Uncle Joe had said it 1,000,000 times better than you could (how's that for "quantitative"?) when he asked:
> 
> "How many divisions does the pope have?"​
> Anyways, let me say it again, some things are not up to you or me. And we'll leave it at that.
> 
> Finally, I am familiar with certain red guard tactics of smearing the motives of those you disagree with - including the insinuation of financial gain. No I don't make money from "religion". I give money to churches and charities just because. It doesn't necessarily have to do with religion. Atheists and agnostics give to the poor and to charities.
> 
> But if you appreciate my effort in trying against odds to replace the hot air in your head with something of a little more value, and wish to compensate my time with a bundle of RMB, I'll be glad to direct your funds to the charities of my choice.



what bullsh* , drinking too much from the "holy wine?" just another self righteous and arrogant scum that claims to have "surpassed intolerance" by living in the west.

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## huzihaidao12

Developereo said:


> Exactly.
> 
> What I find disingenuous, even in this very thread and in general, are all these self-righteous proponents of Buddhism, Hinduism, this-ism and that-ism who berate the Abrahamic religions for proselytizing and then turn right around and extol the virtues of their own faith.
> 
> Hindu temples in the West have outreach centers where non-believers may come and experience the faith. Same with Buddhism. But when mosques or churches have open houses, somehow it becomes an evil plan to conquer the infidels.



Because Buddhists do not have such a positive mission, life interference, all free, if you want to join the Buddhist, went to the temple, if you want to quit, and then be free to exit. I do not know Islam, I have not seen Islam to preach in the streets or elsewhere, but I know that Christianity is a serious offense to spread teachings. China's policy is to protect religious freedom, you have "believed" freedom, you have "do not believe in" freedom, believe it or not just depends on your own.

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## oceanx

below_freezing said:


> what bullsh* , drinking too much from the "holy wine?" just another self righteous and arrogant scum that claims to have "surpassed intolerance" by living in the west.



"Surpassing intolerance"? Did I miss your speech on Martin Luther King day? Ah, More diversions from your own ignorance ... What happened to physics and lawyer and "quantization"?

Stick to what you know (certainly ain't history), and let's hear more about "holy wine' and "scums" ...


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## AR

huzihaidao12 said:


> Because Buddhists do not have such a positive mission, life interference, all free, if you want to join the Buddhist, went to the temple, if you want to quit, and then be free to exit. I do not know Islam, I have not seen Islam to preach in the streets or elsewhere, *but I know that Christianity is a serious offense to spread teachings. *China's policy is to protect religious freedom, you have "believed" freedom, you have "do not believe in" freedom, believe it or not just depends on your own.



exactly yes.... in india they are just selling their religion...

there are giving money to poors if they convert their religion to christianity... there were some reports that money comes indirectly threw Vatican city.....

this is another kind of terrorism

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## Chinese-Dragon

below_freezing said:


> what bullsh* , drinking too much from the "holy wine?" just another self righteous and arrogant scum that claims to have "surpassed intolerance" by living in the west.



Ignore him buddy. 

Oceanx is a well-known troll, and not even a good one. Some trolls are at least clever, but this one is not.

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## huzihaidao12

A.R.. said:


> exactly yes.... in india they are just selling their religion...
> 
> there are giving money to poors if they convert their religion to christianity... there were some reports that money comes indirectly threw Vatican city.....
> 
> this is another kind of terrorism



You do not know how bad Christianity is reflected in the 2008 Sichuan earthquake, they are completely self with a "save others", and then they all get a meet, a spiritual consumption. In fact, in addition to see, did not do anything, they bring goods stacked side, the victims even can not use, just for the Christian People have their own living in the affected areas, interferes with the normal disaster relief activities when other people do all can to do. Buddhism, Taoism, Islam has a very great performance, a silent work for the victims, not even propaganda to comparison with a large Christian propaganda.

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## dvk_1982

i cant come to grips how religions are used to expand influence and clout.. . why dont they just leave religion as a personal stuff, alas that wudnot help gain power centres ... this drive to expand religion itself makes it not what it claims to be.. closer to truth and selflessness. This is greed.


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## oceanx

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Ignore him buddy.
> 
> Oceanx is a well-known troll, and not even a good one. Some trolls are at least clever, but this one is not.



Yeah you go knock some sense into that noggin! I know you'd come in handy - just the kind of baby-sitter frozen boy needs to stay on track.

You go sista ...


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## ptldM3

huzihaidao12 said:


> You do not know how bad Christianity is reflected in the 2008 Sichuan earthquake, they are completely self with a "save others", and then they all get a meet, a spiritual consumption. In fact, in addition to see, did not do anything, they bring goods stacked side, the victims even can not use, just for the Christian People have their own living in the affected areas, interferes with the normal disaster relief activities when other people do all can to do. Buddhism, Taoism, Islam has a very great performance, a silent work for the victims, not even propaganda to comparison with a large Christian propaganda.



Give me a freaking break, Christians have raised millions for disaster releif all over the world, regardless of religion, andfor what it's worth much of the money is donated, so there is no attempt to 'convert' anyone.

I didn't know there are so many two faced racists here.

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## huzihaidao12

ptldM3 said:


> Give me a freaking break, Christians have raised millions for disaster releif all over the world, regardless of religion, and if it matters much of the money is donated, so there is no attempt to 'convert' anyone.
> 
> I didn't know there are so many two faced racists here.



Oh? Then I feel strange that why it happened in China, those Christians? Can you explain?

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## ptldM3

huzihaidao12 said:


> Oh? Then I will also wonder why such a bad performance occurs Christianity in China? Can you explain?



English, do you speak it?


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## huzihaidao12

Of course, I also hope you can explain why the colonists would be called "saints", those colonists who were stained with the blood of the Chinese people and plundering the wealth of Chinese people would be a "saint"? Can you explain?

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## huzihaidao12

ptldM3 said:


> English, do you speak it?



I'm sorry, how are you feeling now?

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## ptldM3

huzihaidao12 said:


> Of course, I also hope you can explain why the colonists would be called "saints", those colonists who were stained with the blood of the Chinese people and plundering the wealth of Chinese people would be a "saint"? Can you explain?



And these 'colonists' are? Some backround information with a link would be nice.


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## huzihaidao12

BBC News | NEWS | ¤¤°ê±j¯P§ÜÄ³±ë¸¦©£«Ê¸t
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## huzihaidao12

Chinese Foreign Ministry Strongly Protests Against Vatican "Canonization"


2000/11/15 


On October 1, 2000, Chinese Foreign Ministry issued a statement to express its utmost indignation and strong protest against a ceremony held by the Vatican, "canonizing" a number of foreign missionaries and their followers who have committed notorious crimes in China. 


Following is the full text of the statement: 


In disregard of the strong opposition of the Chinese side, the Vatican held on October 1, a ceremony for the "canonization" of a number of foreign missionaries and their followers, who committed notorious crimes in China. The Government, people and the Catholic Church of China hereby express their utmost indignation and strong protest against this act. 


As is known to all, some foreign Catholic missionaries were the very perpetrators and accomplices in colonialist and imperialist invasion of China in the contemporary history. Some of those "canonized" by the Vatican this time perpetrated outrages such as raping and looting in China and committed unforgivable crimes against the Chinese people. With regard to these crimes, the Vatican has never repented. Instead, it has now gone so far as to "canonize" these evil-doing sinners. This is a flagrant provocation against the Chinese people, an act aimed at reversing the verdict on the history of colonialist and imperialist invasion of China, and a gross insult to the Chinese people' patriotic resistance against foreign aggression and oppression. In doing so, the Vatican has seriously hurt the national pride and dignity of the Chinese people. 


The Vatican, while expressing its intention to improve its relations with China, has time and again gone against its own commitment to non-interference in China's internal affairs and that on the question of Taiwan. Now it has stubbornly insisted on the "canonization", which has severely damaged the very basis of the normalization of China-Vatican relations. It will exert a grave negative impact on the normalization process. The Vatican should be held responsible for all this.

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## huzihaidao12

Do you know what those "saints" done in China?

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## ptldM3

Wow either you do not know the difference between Catholicism and Christianity or you do not read your links, either way you are a racist. I also fail to see how a few bad Catholics have any correlation to Christianity in China. I really do find it sad how you and your other brother are trying everything possible to smear Christianity, whether it be posting some bogus link or comparing Christianity to 'prostitutes', shouting for the expulsion of Christians, or proclaiming that Christians need to be stomped out like bugs.

I'll take a saint over a racist anyday.


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## huzihaidao12

ptldM3 said:


> Wow either you do not know the difference between Catholicism and Christianity or you do not read your links, either way you are a racist. I also fail to see how a few bad Catholics have any correlation to Christianity in China. I really do find it sad how you and your other brother are trying everything possible to smear Christianity, whether it be posting some bogus link or comparing Christianity to 'prostitutes', shouting for the expulsion of Christians, or proclaiming that Christians need to be stomped out like bugs.
> 
> I'll take a saint over a racist anyday.




It is important to explain the "Christian" and "Catholic" is called "Christian" in China, the general sense. China's special habits. 

Others, can only say that you need to be responsible for own behavior, I did not say that all Christianity is bad, in fact, some are good, but you have a bad image in China, simply because of your behavior, you need to bring a reflection, not blame innocent people. If you are even willing to choose a colonists as "Saint", your freedom, you can choose any day, So, you should not be surprised by the attitude of the Chinese people, this is our choice, freedom.

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## oceanx

huzihaidao12 said:


> Do you know what those "saints" done in China?



When it comes down to it, the CCP and government could only specifically object to the canonization of two of these "saints", Albericus Crescitelli and Auguste Chapdelaine, out of a total of 120 when the Vatican ritual took place in 2000.

It's actually not clear to me whether Chapdelaine himself did anything wrong at all. On this Crescitelli I won't comment for the Catholic church has never had a shortage of perverts in robes ...

You know as well as I do that the historical Catholic Church and the various popes have done far worse than canonizing a gigolo and rapist from time to time. 

We'll just leave it at that.

However, in the spirit of Chairman Mao's "three fingers vs seven", how many "fingers"' worth do you think Matteo Ricci and Sabatino de Ursis of the Italian Jesuits should get for bringing Euclidean geometry and to a large measure geography itself and map science to China? Not to mention the Jesuits' contribution to the Chinese understanding of astronomy and science in general?

BTW, "Eastern" Christianity in the form of &#26223;&#25945; (Manichaeism-influenced Nestorian Christianity) in Western China has been as old as Buddhism itself.


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## huzihaidao12

"some bogus link&#65311;" What is that ? Where there is bogus link?


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## huzihaidao12

oceanx said:


> When it comes down to it, the CCP and government could only specifically object to the canonization of two of these "saints", Albericus Crescitelli and Auguste Chapdelaine, out of a total of 120 when the Vatican ritual took place in 2000.
> 
> It's actually not clear to me whether Chapdelaine himself did anything wrong at all. On this Crescitelli I won't comment for the Catholic church has never had a shortage of perverts in robes ...
> 
> You know as well as I do that the historical Catholic Church and the various popes have done far worse than canonizing a gigolo and rapist from time to time.
> 
> We'll just leave it at that.
> 
> However, in the spirit of Chairman Mao's "three fingers vs seven", how many "fingers" do you think Matteo Ricci and Sabatino de Ursis of the Italian Jesuits should get for bringing Euclidean geometry and to a large measure geography and map science to China? Not to mention the Jesuits' contribution to the Chinese understanding of astronomy and science in general?
> 
> BTW, "Eastern" Christianity in the form of &#26223;&#25945; (Manichaeism-influenced Nestorian Christianity) in Western China has been as old as Buddhism itself.



&#25105;&#21482;&#33021;&#35828;&#65292;&#37027;&#26159;&#20320;&#30340;&#24863;&#35273;&#65292;&#25105;&#27809;&#20852;&#36259;&#25104;&#20026;&#34987;&#34384;&#24453;&#29378;&#65292;&#22825;&#20027;&#25945;&#30340;&#39640;&#32423;&#31070;&#29995;&#24378;&#22904;&#23567;&#30007;&#23401;&#65292;&#25105;&#30452;&#25509;&#21483;&#20182;&#20154;&#28195;&#23601;&#34892;&#20102;&#65292;&#25105;&#27809;&#20852;&#36259;&#25447;&#20182;&#30340;&#33261;&#33050;&#12290;

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## ThatDamnGood

I think a good way to thwart the emergence of "western" Christianity is to spread knowledge about "eastern" Christianity or Orthodoxy.

Catholicism is scared **** of Orthodoxy because a lot of stuff in Catholicism becomes indefensible in the face of Orthodoxy, divorce, celibate priests, that the Pope reigns/rules, meditative practices, etc. (I am not Orthodoxy mind you.) Likewise as Protestantism and the reactionary Evangelicalism are derived from Catholicism, that immediately serves as a triple strike. 

And Orthodoxy should be able to get along with Eastern religions better. At the time of the "schism", Christian meditation schools were located in the east, so the Western type of Christianity didn't have an meditative practice. Hence things like Yoga, Chan/Zen meditation looks so satanic to them but not to Orthodoxy.

Catholicism because it is incomplete and unbalanced without meditation resulted in reactions that are even more unbalanced, Protestantism and Evangelical cults. 

Also, the Orthodoxy have a story about one of their meditative monastics making a reply to a Protestant, "Get rid of your Catholicism first, that we can discuss this further".


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## ptldM3

huzihaidao12 said:


> It is important to explain the "Christian" and "Catholic" is called "Christian" in China, the general sense. *China's special habits*.




They are different, so those 'special habits' need to change.




huzihaidao12 said:


> Others, can only say that you need to be responsible for own behavior, I did not say that all Christianity is bad, in fact, some are good, but you have a bad image in China, *simply because of your behavior*,



What is this behavior?



huzihaidao12 said:


> you need to bring a reflection, not blame innocent people.



If there is anyone blaming others it's you blaming Christians...



huzihaidao12 said:


> If you are even willing to choose a colonists as "Saint", your freedom, you can choose any day, So, *you should not be surprised by the attitude of the Chinese people*, this is our choice, freedom.



I know how Communisms and supression of religion works, Soviet Christians were hated in the Soviet Union, I had brothers that were harrased by teachers, bullied by other kids and even beat up by the police because they were Christian. My father and grandmother were put into prison because they were caught paying in their home.

What is my point you ask? The communists in China were no different to Communists in the Soviet Union, so you're right, i'm not suprised by the 'attitude of Chinese people'.



huzihaidao12 said:


> "some bogus link&#65311;" What is that ? Where there is bogus link?



It's bogus becuase it doesn't have anything to do with Christians. If you can't distinguish between Christians and Catholics than that is your problem.


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## oceanx

huzihaidao12 said:


> &#25105;&#21482;&#33021;&#35828;&#65292;&#37027;&#26159;&#20320;&#30340;&#24863;&#35273;&#65292;&#25105;&#27809;&#20852;&#36259;&#25104;&#20026;&#34987;&#34384;&#24453;&#29378;&#65292;&#22825;&#20027;&#25945;&#30340;&#39640;&#32423;&#31070;&#29995;&#24378;&#22904;&#23567;&#30007;&#23401;&#65292;&#25105;&#30452;&#25509;&#21483;&#20182;&#20154;&#28195;&#23601;&#34892;&#20102;&#65292;&#25105;&#27809;&#20852;&#36259;&#25447;&#20182;&#30340;&#33261;&#33050;&#12290;
> 
> &#35828;&#27611;&#30340;&#19971;&#19977;&#26469;&#20063;&#27809;&#26377;&#24847;&#21619;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#21435;&#25447;&#37027;&#19977;&#30340;&#33261;&#33050;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#25215;&#35748;&#20102;&#36825;&#20010;&#38382;&#39064;&#65292;&#19981;&#26159;&#32487;&#32493;&#25447;&#36215;&#65292;&#24456;&#31616;&#21333;&#65292;&#21482;&#35201;&#22825;&#20027;&#25945;&#20250;&#25764;&#28040;&#36825;&#20010;&#29399;&#23617;&#22307;&#24466;&#31216;&#21495;&#24182;&#19988;&#36947;&#27465;&#65292;&#28982;&#21518;&#25105;&#33021;&#21516;&#24847;&#36825;&#26159;&#19971;&#19977;&#65292;&#24536;&#25481;&#37027;&#20010;&#19977;&#65292;&#20320;&#20173;&#28982;&#22312;&#20570;&#30456;&#21516;&#30340;&#19977;&#30340;&#26102;&#20505;&#23601;&#21035;&#25552;&#20160;&#20040;&#19971;&#19977;&#24320;&#65292;&#36825;&#26159;&#22522;&#26412;&#36947;&#29702;&#12290;



Fair enough, &#32993;&#23376;&#24351;&#20804;. Your point is well-taken. I personally wouldn't worry too much about the Vatican.

The problem with the Vatican historically has always been that they have embroiled themselves in the earthly pursuit of the Frozen Boy's "5 important things in life", especially money and power.

The effects of the corruption are there for all to see ...

In that sense, &#20154;&#27665;&#30340;&#30524;&#30555;&#26159;&#38634;&#20142;&#30340; ...


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## huzihaidao12

ptldM3 said:


> They are different, so those 'special habits' need to change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is this behavior?
> 
> 
> 
> If there is anyone blaming others it's you blaming Christians...
> 
> 
> 
> I know how Communisms and supression of religion works, Soviet Christians were hated in the Soviet Union, I had brother that were harrased by teacher, bullied by other kids and even beat up by the police because they were Christian. My father and grandmother were put into prison because they were caught paying in their home.
> 
> What is my point you ask? The communists in China were no different to Communists in the Soviet Union, so you're right, i'm not suprised by the 'attitude of Chinese people'.
> 
> 
> 
> It's bogus becuase it doesn't have anything to do with Christians. If you can't distinguish between Christians and Catholics than don't well that's sad.




1, the specific behavior, I have an example, some very bad behavior, such as, the performance in earthquake, aggressive missionary work, "colonial saints." Your actions decide whether you are popular. 

2, you get hurt in the past, I very much regret and sympathy. But you completely misunderstood the Chinese, this is a spontaneous feeling of the people, no government propaganda, for example, the impact of Christians in the earthquake, not the government's propaganda, but some volunteers with their own eyes, then we know. Therefore, the gap is too large in the perception, I hope you do not have a fixed impression of the past in China.

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## huzihaidao12

ptldM3 said:


> It's bogus becuase it doesn't have anything to do with Christians. If you can't distinguish between Christians and Catholics than that is your problem.




I admit it, I feel sorry to bring a Chinese custom.

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## fallstuff

huzihaidao12 said:


> 1, the specific behavior, I have an example, some very bad behavior, such as, the performance in earthquake, aggressive missionary work, "colonial saints." Your actions decide whether you are popular.
> 
> 2, you get hurt in the past, I very much regret and sympathy. But you completely misunderstood the Chinese, this is a spontaneous feeling of the people, no government propaganda, for example, the impact of Christians in the earthquake, not the government's propaganda, but some volunteers with their own eyes, then we know. Therefore, the gap is too large in the perception, I hope you do not have a fixed impression of the past in China.



This is how the missionarys work all over the world. They hold a carrot in front of the weak and destitutes.


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## Ras

Instead of worrying about Christianity and it causing divisions in the country,should the Chinese not worry about the one child policy disproportionately dropping the percentage of "Han Chinese" in the Chinese population?
China was blessed with an almost homogeneous ethnic group..which the man made policies of the CCP are now destroying.


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## below_freezing

Ras said:


> Instead of worrying about Christianity and it causing divisions in the country,should the Chinese not worry about the one child policy disproportionately dropping the percentage of "Han Chinese" in the Chinese population?
> China was blessed with an almost homogeneous ethnic group..which the man made policies of the CCP are now destroying.



However, most minorities are Korean, Mongol or Manchu - completely assimilated and indistinguishable from Hans except by 3 characters on the corner of the ID card. Besides, the 1 child policy is widely ignored and already loosened for rural residents and only children. However, you're right, there might be too many Tibetans and Uighurs in the future.


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## Ras

below_freezing said:


> However, most minorities are Korean, Mongol or Manchu - completely assimilated and indistinguishable from Hans except by 3 characters on the corner of the ID card. Besides, the 1 child policy is widely ignored and already loosened for rural residents and only children. However, you're right, there might be too many Tibetans and Uighurs in the future.



Korean,Mongol and Manchu are for all practical purposes the same as the Hans...but what about Tibetians,Uighurs and Hui. This policy will come to bite China in her *** IMO.


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## siegecrossbow

Ras said:


> Instead of worrying about Christianity and it causing divisions in the country,should the Chinese not worry about the one child policy disproportionately dropping the percentage of "Han Chinese" in the Chinese population?
> China was blessed with an almost homogeneous ethnic group..which the man made policies of the CCP are now destroying.



The one child policy is already being reversed in large cities like Shanghai (where "single child" couples are allowed to have two kids). I don't think that us Chinese are stupid enough to go extinct via birth controls.


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## Burnz

I hope China converts into Christianity. The Gospel is the only truth for the Chinese people from the oppression of the CPC.


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## Gold1010

Burnz said:


> I hope China converts into Christianity. The Gospel is the only truth for the Chinese people from the oppression of the CPC.


 
Im christian and this is just bull..

Some people here have anti christian agenda and say its a western tool is also bull,many asian countries have large christian populations they dont use there religion against there country though.Its not as if these christians are european these a ethnic chinese and chinese are very patriotic.

And most christians put country before religion.

I no i sure as hell do.


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## Nan Yang

Burnz said:


> I hope China converts into Christianity. The Gospel is the only truth for the Chinese people from the oppression of the CPC.


 
Maybe China will convert it into a Chinese religion. Like Buddhism. 

What will happens when Chinese take over the Vatican?


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## Roybot

Farrrrrr..I hope it won't be like South Korea on steroids South Korean Christians are fanatics. They don't even spare the "other" Christians. My mates gf(both South Koreans) was like, "Jehovahs Witness people worship satan" , she wasn't even joking


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## humanfirst

Burnz said:


> I hope China converts into Christianity. The Gospel is the only truth for the Chinese people from the oppression of the CPC.


 
They are doing fine without any religion..


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## Tractor

Burnz said:


> I hope China converts into Christianity. The Gospel is the only truth for the Chinese people from the oppression of the CPC.


What happened,my neighbour is singing Gospel song.


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## desioptimist

Nan Yang said:


> Maybe China will convert it into a Chinese religion. Like Buddhism.
> 
> What will happens when Chinese take over the Vatican?


 
It will be nice to see a Chinease pope. Just kidding. 

It is a problem in India too, especially in tribal belt. In Orissa, they convert tribal people using medicine.(There are areas in which malaria is prevalent, and they use grounded medicine as offering from Jesus. The local ojha/quack is no match for modern medicine).
When a tribal village chief converts, his whole village convert. This brings fissure within tribe. Orissa and Madhya Pradesh have put conditions on conversion due to this(Both states have big tribal population)

The other way to convert is of course big prayer meetings, in which people can tell their miracle stories. There are loads of in India,(apt named "God" channel comes to my mind) telecast these.

And you wont believe this, I have seen doordarshan(Govt channel), airing dubbed proselytizing video.

However, legally it is a right, unless you try to force, bribe or cheat somebody.

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## Thomas

siegecrossbow said:


> Well it goes to show that China is more religiously tolerant than most people think.



Christians are still persecuted and imprisoned for their faith in China. Yet despite this Christians still grow in numbers. 


Persecution: Chinese expand their tactics, report says | anglicansunited.com

[Ed. Note: I met Elder Fu Xianwei, President of the Three-Self Patriotic Movement Churches of China, in Singapore last April at the Global South Face to Face Encounter. The Three-self is a combination two organizations, and is the only registered Protestant church in mainland China. The Three-self stands for self-governance, self-support and self propagation of Christianity by indigenous Chinese, not foreigners. He spoke carefully about the government's relationship with all churches, especially the rapid growth of Christianity through cell groups and house churches. When asked specifically about this type of abuse and persecution, he evaded the question. Hearing the scriptures read in Chinese was thrilling. Cheryl M. Wetzel]

Posted on Apr 4, 2011
by John Evans & Art Toalston
for The Baptist Press

WASHINGTON (BP)&#8211;The Chinese government intensified its pressure against Christians in 2010 for a &#8220;fifth straight year of escalating persecution,&#8221; according to ChinaAid Association, a Christian human rights organization based in Washington.

Beatings, torture, arrests, harassment and church demolitions are among the 90 recorded cases of persecution, a nearly 17 percent increase over 2009, according to a report released by ChinaAid on March 31.

The cases &#8220;are just the tip of the iceberg,&#8221; according to a ChinaAid news release. &#8220;The Chinese government&#8217;s stranglehold on information and the authoritarian regime&#8217;s other security measures make getting a true picture of the extent of persecution impossible. Nevertheless, the fact that the documented incidences of persecution came from all parts of China and involved people from all levels of society makes the report a useful guide.&#8221;

The report suggested the increase in persecution may have been triggered by the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to Chinese dissident Liu Xiabao and the thwarted attendance by more than 200 delegates from Chinese house churches at the Lausanne Congress on Global Evangelization in South Africa.

The report stated that Chinese authorities, in addition to continuing to target house churches and their leaders in urban areas, are adopting three additional tactics of persecution:

&#8211; The government is severely cracking down on Christian human rights lawyers, who have increasingly defended persecuted Christians in the country&#8217;s court system. More than two-thirds of persecution cases in Beijing involved such lawyers, who are subjected to harassment, beating and abduction.

&#8211; While the government is decreasing official prison sentences against Christians who can defend themselves against such measures in the legal system, mafia-type violence and intimidation (some people have simply disappeared) is being used, which leaves Christians no legal recourse.

&#8211; The government is punishing Three-Self Patriotic Movement Churches (official churches) that have failed to submit to its complete control. Congregants are beaten, churches forced to disband, and some buildings torn down.

The report documented 3,343 people who were persecuted in 2010, a nearly 14 percent increase from 2009. Detentions increased by 43 percent, and 336 house church leaders were persecuted. Overall, the report said persecution was more than 193 percent worse in 2010 than 2006.

Concerning the three new tactics of persecution, the ChinaAid report noted:

&#8211; &#8220;Full-scale suppression of Christian human rights lawyers groups: In 2005, Dr. Fan Yafeng, a Christian constitutional law scholar, launched a movement within the church to use legal means to protect citizens&#8217; rights, a model based on the principle of non-violence and in accordance with the actual political and legal situation in China. In the years since, working in partnership with Li Subin, Li Baiguang, Zhang Kai, Gao Zhisheng, Jiang Tianyong, Li Fangping and other prominent Christian lawyers and legal professionals, he established Christian Human Rights Lawyers of China, an unstructured non-governmental organization. From its original single mission of defending the rights of the church, the group&#8217;s legal rights defense work has gradually expanded to defending the rights of other citizens and groups, including other persecuted religious groups and individuals, rights defense of petitioners, peasants who have lost their land, victims of the compulsory family planning policy who try to defend their rights, etc. In 2009, the government severely cracked down on a number of large house churches and sentenced a group of influential house church leaders to long prison terms. During this process Christian Human Rights Lawyers of China publicly participated in many major cases (Linfen Church in Shanxi, Alimujiang in Xinjiang), thus greatly raising the church&#8217;s awareness of rights defense through legal means. In the meantime, the model of the church defending its rights spread rapidly to the rest of the country and reached its climax in the latter half of 2010. Also in the latter half of 2010, the government began to severely crack down on the members of Christian Human Rights Lawyers of China in a full-scale campaign, and the focus of their persecution was Dr. Fan Yafeng.

&#8211; &#8220;Abuse, torture and mafia tactics: As a result of the vigorous rights defense movement activities of Dr. Fan Yafeng and Christian Human Rights Lawyers of China in effectively using the existing legal system in China, some local governments were forced to appear in court and hold dialogs with persecuted Christians or non-Christians. This greatly increased the cost to the government of its persecution activities and in some cases resulted in the failure of the persecution. Therefore, beginning in the latter half of 2010, the government began to circumvent regular legal means and instead began to allow law enforcement officers to wreak physical and mental havoc on the targets of their persecution rather than punishing them through legal and accepted methods. In December 2010, Dr. Fan Yafeng was tortured during his nine-day detention. What is worrying is that, judging from the cases in the first three months of 2011, such persecution tactics are being promoted.

&#8211; &#8220;Severe crackdown on Three-Self Patriotic Movement churches that do not accept government control: 2010 was also a year of persecution of Three-Self churches. This is a special phenomenon and it signifies that it is not just the house churches but the whole of Christianity that the government regards as a threat. Any Three-Self church that dares to adhere to true Christian belief and is not willing to be controlled by the government will be the victim of a severe crackdown sooner or later. These persecuted churches are all large churches led by pastors who adhere to the principles of the faith. The persecution methods are severe and include beatings, abuse, and forced demolition of church buildings. Of course, as a result of the persecution, the reputation of these churches is being turned around, and more house churches and Three-Self churches are coming together, to help each other and to face persecution together. For example, Pastor Zhang Mingxuan, president of the Chinese House Church Alliance, made a number of trips in 2010 to the Chengnan Three-Self Church in Tinghu district, Yancheng, Jiangsu province where he encouraged the clergy and believers and also provided help.&#8221;


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## Aramsogo

Jesus Christ was not a historical figure. The physical person never existed. All the Christian stories were borrowed from older Greek/Egyptian stories from the Virgin Mary on down. Google something like "search for historical Jesus" 

I hope the Chinese people don't fall for this western garbage again. Last time it caused the Taiping Rebellion and Boxer Rebellion that killed 20 million Chinese people. CPC please control this Judeo-Christian nonsense.


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## Gold1010

Aramsogo said:


> Jesus Christ was not a historical figure. The physical person never existed. All the Christian stories were borrowed from older Greek/Egyptian stories from the Virgin Mary on down. Google something like "search for historical Jesus"
> 
> I hope the Chinese people don't fall for this western garbage again. Last time it caused the Taiping Rebellion and Boxer Rebellion that killed 20 million Chinese people. CPC please control this Judeo-Christian nonsense.


 
there are a number of roman(pre christian) documents that confirm jesus.

western garbage lol? so the west was conspiring this thousands of years ago?ok

and i doubt such conflicts would start in china in modern times.


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## Thomas

Aramsogo said:


> Jesus Christ was not a historical figure. The physical person never existed. All the Christian stories were borrowed from older Greek/Egyptian stories from the Virgin Mary on down. Google something like "search for historical Jesus"
> 
> I hope the Chinese people don't fall for this western garbage again. Last time it caused the Taiping Rebellion and Boxer Rebellion that killed 20 million Chinese people. CPC please control this Judeo-Christian nonsense.


 
Your actually the first person I have seen that believes Jesus never existed. Even secular historians of the time agree that he did.


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## Aramsogo

Aussie4ever said:


> there are a number of roman(pre christian) documents that confirm jesus.
> 
> western garbage lol? so the west was conspiring this thousands of years ago?ok
> 
> and i doubt such conflicts would start in china in modern times.


 
A physical Jesus wasn't even mentioned until years later. Gospel weren't written until years later from the same source document.

Roman documents. What Roman documents ?
Only Opiates have been worst for China. Keep this garbage to yourself.


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## ovarel

that may lead them to a western democracy.


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## Aramsogo

Thomas said:


> Your actually the first person I have seen that believes Jesus never existed. Even secular historians of the time agree that he did.


 
Thomas, you give me way too much credit. I'm hardly the first. You just don't hear about it much in the great Western Free Press.

Watch this terrific documentary, the God Who Wasn't There.
The God Who Wasn't There


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## RayBan

is it good for Pakistan?


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## RayBan

China te only place where Islam has failed to flourish, lets see how comfortable is Christianity to not so compatible China. Buddhism is still somehow surviving. 

BTW, Chinese are clever and very organised when it comes to living life.


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## notsuperstitious

The church of communism recognises the threat and will not allow the threat to grow beyond a point. This is today

Christian worshippers 'detained' in China - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English



> Police officials in China have arrested dozens of Christian worshippers from an unregistered church when they tried to pray outdoors, a rights group said.
> 
> The congregants sang hymns and said prayers as police loaded them onto waiting buses in Beijing's western Haidian district, the US-based Christian rights group China Aid said in a statement on Sunday, citing witnesses.
> 
> "The Beijing authorities have again demonstrated their total disregard of their citizens' constitutionally guaranteed fundamental right to religious freedom," China Aid founder and president Bob Fu said in the statement.
> 
> Shouwang church pastor Yuan Ling said by telephone that he was unable to go to the venue because police had put him under house arrest on Saturday night. Yuan said he knew of at least six other church members who were also under house arrest.
> 
> Police declined to comment when contacted by AFP news agency and requested written questions be sent to them by fax.
> 
> A church member who went to the gathering venue for services and managed to evade police told The Associated Press news agency that about 200 people were taken away and were being held at a local school.
> 
> The man, who would give only his English name, Kane, for fear of police reprisals, said their cellphones were also confiscated.
> 
> China's Communist government allows worship only in state-approved churches, but many Christians belong to unregistered congregations. Such "house churches" are subjected to varying degrees of harassment by authorities.
> 
> Shouwang, one of Beijing's largest "house churches", invited its members to meet on Sunday morning at an open air public platform linking the SinoSteel Building and the South China Poetic Restaurant building, China Aid said.
> 
> More than 60 million Christians are believed to worship in China's independent churches, compared with about 20 million who worship in the state church, according to scholars and church activists.
> 
> State crackdown
> 
> The United States and the United Nations have expressed serious concerns in the past week at a growing crackdown across China in which artists, lawyers, writers, activists and intellectuals have been detained.
> 
> The church incident comes a week after Ai Weiwei, an outspoken artist who helped design the Bird's Nest Olympic Stadium for the 2008 Beijing Games, was detained for unspecified "economic crimes."
> 
> On Friday, Hillary Rodham Clinton, the US secretary of state, called for Ai's release and criticised China for what she said was a deteriorating human rights situation in the first part of 2011.
> 
> However, China blasted back at Washington on Saturday with a statement on the foreign ministry's website saying the US should reflect more on its own domestic rights abuses.
> 
> "The US should stop interfering in other country's internal affairs with this human rights report," ministry spokesman Hong Lei was quoted as saying.


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## ephone

Whatever its development may be, I would like them to loyal to our country.

BTW, I think that pope should take his hands off China's matter. It is none of his business.

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## notsuperstitious

ephone said:


> Whatever its development may be, I would like them to loyal to our country.
> 
> BTW, I think that pope should take his hands off China's matter. It is none of his business.



How about China getting their hands off Church's matters? How is religion state's matter?

I agree pope should not interfere, but I also do not support China's policies.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Can't believe we are heading back to this damn topic again.


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## oct605032048

How about stop poising your nose out of China's home affair? How is China's affair become an indian's matter?

I don't like some of government's policies either, but when it comes to these stuffs, I'm totally oppose any foreign interference, be it an indian or that old stupid pope.


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## Thomas

Aramsogo said:


> Thomas, you give me way too much credit. I'm hardly the first. You just don't hear about it much in the great Western Free Press.
> 
> Watch this terrific documentary, the God Who Wasn't There.
> The God Who Wasn't There



Since the standard you apply would cover all other major religions as well, I assume youre an Atheist?


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## ViXuyen

People in the developing world (China included) is embracing christianity at the moment because the Christendom is a wealthy "religion" at the moment so everyone wants to be a part of this pop trend; they believe in this religion solely for materialistic gain especially in many poor parts of the world where missionaries are able to offer them some sort of food, money, medicine. Also, if you look around the world, most of the rich and wealthy countries (G7) tend to be Christians so people unconsciously believe that this is the "right" religion. 

I remember reading from history when the Catholic priests came to Vietnam to convert the Vietnamese into Catholicsm starting in the 16th century, they all described those Vietnamese converts as lowly educated and super poor, hardly any rich and educated Vietnamese ever adopted this religion.

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## TEXAS BATTLESTAR

5Star said:


> People in the developing world (China included) is embracing christianity at the moment because the Christendom is a wealthy "religion" at the moment so everyone wants to be a part of this pop trend; they believe in this religion solely for materialistic gain especially in many poor parts of the world where missionaries are able to offer them some sort of food, money, medicine. Also, if you look around the world, most of the rich and wealthy countries (G7) tend to be Christians so people unconsciously believe that this is the "right" religion.
> 
> I remember reading from history when the Catholic priests came to Vietnam to convert the Vietnamese into Catholicsm starting in the 16th century, they all described those Vietnamese converts as lowly educated and super poor, hardly any rich and educated Vietnamese ever adopted this religion.


 
F*ck the French! Why does our people to wait for whatever the Westerners approval to feel pride and confidence about ourselves? We need to get off the nail salon, Casinos, and "Paris by Night" videos and productions to improve ourselves. I mean just look at the Japanese, Indians, and Chinese and see how they are successful without "God".

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## TEXAS BATTLESTAR

The purpose of Christianity is to dilute the history of one's civilization by submitting to a mythology all to conquer it. You tell me that mankind never had the concept of love for their fellow man before Jesus Christ came? Heck the concept of God was invented by the Indians and Chinese that got plagiarized by some Hebrew who so happened to capture a neat story during the time of the Silk Road trade.

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## TEXAS BATTLESTAR

true_indian said:


> True. It does happen in India as well. But most westerners seems to be ignorant of these things. Christian Missionaries mostly concentrate on poorer section bribing them to convert. They even indulge in blaspheming other religions to make their point. Lot of attacks on Christians in India happen because of this.
> 
> But that doesn't mean entire religion is bad. Some of them convert because of change in faith. I don't see a problem with that. Its only when they force and bribe poorer sections to convert they loose their credibility. All religions have good and bad sides to it. Proselytism isn't on the bright side.


 
Well said my friend. Stay strong, stay true, and stay away from those Christian "infidels"! Look what Christianity did to America, turning the kids fat, lazy, incoherent to world around them, self-centered, racist, and cultureless!

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## Thomas

5Star said:


> People in the developing world (China included) is embracing christianity at the moment because the Christendom is a wealthy "religion" at the moment so everyone wants to be a part of this pop trend; they believe in this religion solely for materialistic gain especially in many poor parts of the world where missionaries are able to offer them some sort of food, money, medicine. Also, if you look around the world, most of the rich and wealthy countries (G7) tend to be Christians so people unconsciously believe that this is the "right" religion.
> 
> I remember reading from history when the Catholic priests came to Vietnam to convert the Vietnamese into Catholicsm starting in the 16th century, they all described those Vietnamese converts as lowly educated and super poor, hardly any rich and educated Vietnamese ever adopted this religion.


 
The Poor throughout history have always been more receptive to Christianity. Even when Jesus was alive it was the poor and down trodden that he mainly reached out to. Jesus also said it was harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. This is because he puts his trust more in his riches then in God. 

Presently Christianity is growing in Vietnam. Even though the persecution is even greater there then in China.


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## ViXuyen

TEXAS BATTLESTAR said:


> F*ck the French! Why does our people to wait for whatever the Westerners approval to feel pride and confidence about ourselves? We need to get off the nail salon, Casinos, and "Paris by Night" videos and productions to improve ourselves. I mean just look at the Japanese, Indians, and Chinese and see how they are successful without "God".


Paris by night is like a comedy for any sensible Vietnamese to laugh at them. Anytime I see them parade a private-first class near high-school dropout in the U.S military on stage and treat him like a super hero it just boggle my mind.

Paris by Night needs to look at their adversary the Viet Cong. These people hardly had any education but they produce world-class scholar like Ngo Bao Chau who wins world-class award ie the Field Medal; that is something that bring pride to the Vietnamese, not some nail salon scientist or private first class in the U.S military that they keep parading.

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## RayBan

After reading the entire thread, hue come to conclusion that WW3 will not be fought among nations it will be the WAR of the religions. 

And one more observation, some Chinese here are so factually correct and they say instead of wasting time in praying its better to work or relax a bit, feels ambiguous?


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## RayBan

justanobserver said:


> Going back in history... Buddhism was meant to reform Hinduism which had become dogmatic and the caste system had hardened.
> 
> Under Emperor Ashoka it succeeded to an extent, atheistic concepts were injected back into Hindusim and the caste system was diluted, however the reform stopped because of the invasions from central asia which destroyed many Buddhist universities
> 
> There is however an interesting twist  . Dr Br. Ambedkar, called the 'Father of our constitution' was a Dalit but later converted to Theravada Buddhism. He abolished untouchability, outlawed the caste system and introduced positive discrimination
> 
> So in a way Buddhism did reform Indian society


 
you observed a very beautiful thing there, buddy justanobserver! FACT I must say.


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## RayBan

hey Tanlixiang28776 you are one of the precise debate champs, what's your take on the above subject. Quite challenging, I hope you will exceed my expectations or an imagination.


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## tanlixiang28776

RayBan said:


> hey Tanlixiang28776 you are one of the precise debate champs, what's your take on the above subject. Quite challenging, I hope you will exceed my expectations or an imagination.


 
Not exactly a complement per say but whatever. 

Religion is unimportant. All I care about are the individuals.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Religion is not particularly important in China.

China has the largest number of non-religious people in the world,

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## RayBan

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Not exactly a complement per say but whatever.
> 
> Religion is unimportant. All I care about are the individuals.


 Unimportant or Useless and unwanted?


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## tanlixiang28776

RayBan said:


> Unimportant or Useless and unwanted?


 
Do not misconstrue my words.

It is simply unimportant.

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## below_freezing

5Star said:


> Paris by night is like a comedy for any sensible Vietnamese to laugh at them. Anytime I see them parade a private-first class near high-school dropout in the U.S military on stage and treat him like a super hero it just boggle my mind.
> 
> Paris by Night needs to look at their adversary the Viet Cong. These people hardly had any education but they produce world-class scholar like Ngo Bao Chau who wins world-class award ie the Field Medal; that is something that bring pride to the Vietnamese, not some nail salon scientist or private first class in the U.S military that they keep parading.


 
I wikipedia'ed Paris By Night.

It seems just as silly as China's Falun Gong or Beijing Spring.

Great job on resisting this imperialist propaganda.

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## Tiki Tam Tam

Religion in China 



> Freedom and Regulation
> 
> Article 36 of the Chinese constitution says that Chinese citizens "enjoy freedom of religious belief." It bans discrimination based on religion, and it forbids state organs, public organizations, or individuals from compelling citizens to believe in&#8212;or not to believe in&#8212;any particular faith. In 2005, the State Council passed new Regulations on Religious Affairs, which allow religious organizations to possess property, publish literature, train and approve clergy, and collect donations as long as they have registered with the state. According to Chinese criminal law, officials who deny citizens of their right to religious belief can be sentenced up to two years in prison.
> 
> But religious freedom is still not universal in China. The state only recognizes five official religions&#8212;Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Catholicism, and Protestantism&#8212;and considers the practice of any other faith illegal. Religious organizations are required to register with one of five state-sanctioned patriotic religious associations, each of which is supervised by the State Administration for Religious Affairs (SARA). Religious groups that fail to affiliate with one of the five official religions are denied legal protection under Chinese law.
> 
> In 2007, two professors of Shanghai-based East China Normal University polled 4,500 people about their religious belief. Their findings, which were published in the state-run China Daily, said that the five official religions account for 67.4 percent of religious adherents in China. Many of the unregistered believers were said to worship legendary figures such as the Dragon King or God of Fortune. According to a report from the U.S. State Department, groups that the Chinese government classifies as "cults" (such as the Falun Gong, Zhong Gong, and a variety of Christian sects) account for many of the unregistered believers as well.
> 
> Public security officials monitor both registered and unregistered groups to prevent them from disrupting public order, impairing the health of citizens, or interfering with the state's education system. Some experts say that SARA uses these legal loopholes to curb religious freedom throughout the country. "The fine print matters," says Andrew J. Nathan, former chair of the advisory committee of Human Rights Watch, Asia. He notes that SARA denies legal protection for groups it deems "subject to foreign domination," as well as groups whose activities fail to classify as "normal." These legal ambiguities give SARA the flexibility to decide which religious groups can get state approval.,,,,,





> Christian House Churches
> 
> Since the 1980s, there has been a significant growth in Christianity throughout China. But many Christians choose not to register with the state. "Some groups don't want to accept the official doctrine," says Nathan, noting that the state-sanctioned form of Christianity is considered too liberal by many adherents in the countryside. Some Catholics practice off the record because the state forbids them from pledging allegiance to any foreign figure, including the Pope. Pope Benedict XVI has said he would like to restore diplomatic relations with China, which were cut off in 1951 after the Communists came to power. But a dispute over the Vatican's right to appoint bishops has prevented progress.
> 
> Harold adds that the state limits the number of people who can join each church, so some Christians who want to join the state-sanctioned church find that they cannot do so legally. These regulations have prompted the creation of a sizeable underground Christian community. It is hard to estimate the number of Christians who practice without state sanction, but the Pew Research Center reports that the number is probably between 50 and 70 million. Many of these Christians hold services in "house churches," which are private religious forums that adherents create in their own homes. SARA allows friends and family to hold informal prayer meetings without registering with the government, so these makeshift house churches have more theological freedom than state-sanctioned churches.
> 
> House churches, like official churches, are often besieged by the state. According to a report (PDF) from the China Aid Association, Chinese officials harassed house churches in at least sixty cases last year, resulting in 788 arrests and 693 detentions. But experts say the CCP is growing more tolerant of these covert religious forums. In March 2008, Open Doors International, a Christian religious freedoms group, endorsed the State Department's decision to remove China from its human rights blacklist because "religious freedom in China, compared to five, ten years ago, is in much better shape now."





> Islam and Uighurs in Xinjiang
> 
> According to China's latest census, which was conducted in 2000, there are over 20 million Muslims in China. The country has ten predominantly Muslim ethnic groups, the largest of which is the Hui, an ethnic group closely related to the majority Han group. Ranking next to the Hui are the Uighurs, a Turkic people who live primarily in the autonomous region of Xinjiang province in northwest China. According to the U.S. State Department, officials in Xinjiang tightly control religious activity, though Muslims in the rest of the country enjoy greater religious freedom.
> 
> Xinjiang is an area of special concern because of its Turkic leanings, as well as the fact that it is the base of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), a militant Islamic separatist group. Since 1990, China has accused the ETIM of engaging in more than two hundred terrorist attacks, though experts say the state may be exaggerating. Most Uighurs do not support the ETIM, but they are frustrated with the Chinese government because they face discrimination for having a different religion, language, and culture than the typically wealthier Han Chinese.
> 
> The CCP also worries about Xinjiang because of the region's ethnic and religious ties to neighboring states. "What Uighurs have is a very large population of ethno-linguistic and religious brethren in Central Asia, and all the way up to Turkey," says Harold. "They strongly feel that the Uighurs are treated as second-class citizens in China." He says that the state is worried about foreign influences&#8212;especially Islamic extremism&#8212;that might emanate out of Central Asia and cross into China. These concerns prompt the CCP to keep a watchful eye on religious activity in the region.





> Tibetan Buddhists
> 
> There are over 5 million ethnic Tibetans in China, most of whom are Buddhist. The Dalai Lama is the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhists, as well as an active participant in the ongoing debate about Tibet's political status. Since 1987, he and his exiled government in India have played a key role in garnering international support for Tibetan independence. Buddhist monks within Tibet have also been active political dissidents, organizing anti-government demonstrations (which erupted into violent riots in March 2008). Experts say that demonstrations like these have convinced the CCP that Tibetan monks are the ringleaders of political dissent in the province.
> 
> In order to quell this dissent, the CCP restricts religious activity in Tibet. The state monitors daily operations of major monasteries and it reserves the right to disapprove any individual's application to take up religious orders. "Beijing's hope is that ultimately a new generation of Tibetans will emerge that will be less influenced by religion," writes Melvyn C. Goldstein, director of the Center for Research on Tibet at Case Western Reserve University, in a 1998 Foreign Affairs article. In order to shape the new generation, the CCP has created "patriotic education campaigns" that promote a state-sanctioned version of Buddhism.
> 
> Experts say that discontent amongst Tibetan Buddhists stems in part from economic disparities between ethnic Tibetans and Han Chinese. But they also stress the sincerity of Tibetans' religious grievances. "It's definitely the case in Tibet that one of the most immediate sources of frustration of those people who have been most active recently has been China's policy towards religion," says Harold. "The state attempts to vilify the Dalai Lama and force Tibetans to believe something that they do not believe: that he's evil, that he's splittist, and that Tibet has always been and will always be a part of China." Nathan agrees that there is a real religious element in the Tibetan conflict, adding, "The state has unfolded patriotic education campaigns in the monasteries, which they wouldn't do if religion didn't really matter to the Tibetans."



Extracts from:

Religion in China - Council on Foreign Relations

Falun Gong (also known as Falun Dafa) is a spiritual movement that blends aspects of Taoism, Buddhism, and Qigong, which is a traditional Chinese exercise is banned.

Segal is also skeptical, saying, "It would have to be a completely different kind of political environment" for truly independent churches and religious groups to emerge.


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## RayBan

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Do not misconstrue my words.
> 
> It is simply unimportant.


 
unnecessary ? look I was expecting a good researched and detailed analysis of facts. I don't wana offend you, so just giving it a rest here. 

¿ BTW! I dint get why Chinese dragoon thanked you.

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## tanlixiang28776

RayBan said:


> unnecessary ? look I was expecting a good researched and detailed analysis of facts. I don't wana offend you, so just giving it a rest here.
> 
> ¿ BTW! I dint get why Chinese dragoon thanked you.


 
Yeah I only do that for military subjects.


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## RayBan

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Yeah I only do that for military subjects.


 
exactly! explaining GOD and FAITH is like drawing an intangible object.


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## asianamerican

SinoSoldier said:


> Apparently, there are 10,000 new Christians every day in China.
> 
> Posted from WordPress.com:
> 
> Many folks have long considered America to always have been and still is a Christian Nation. Now there are many arguments surrounding that. One can argue about our values being much closer to those of the Bible than other countries. Others would argue, what semblance of biblical literacy do people still have in the most literate place on earth? Many are just referring to the sheer number of people who call themselves Christian. We then ask how many of those are true believers versus being culturally Christian? Well for sometime now the experts have been keeping their eye on countries like Africa, South America and of course China because of the massive number of conversions reported. The axis of faith has shifted to the margins, to the poor of this world. Forget the West and the idea that America is still the center of Gods redeeming work the Holy Spirit is vibrant in these other parts of the world. They are doing more than we are. Their numbers inrease daily. They are developing strategies to reach other parts of the world including the US. The Spirit moves with or without us. Lets just focus on China for now. Right now, its somewhere between 80-100 million Christians and growing rapidly. If we simply consider mere numbers China would be the largest Christian Nation in the world by mid-century according to experts.
> 
> Looking merely at numbers and their implications, Michelle Malkin posted her find on the rapid rising of christianity in China  *10,000 Christians a Day*
> 
> _Ten thousand Chinese become Christians each day, according to a stunning report by the National Catholic Reporters veteran correspondent John Allen, and 200 million Chinese may comprise the worlds largest concentration of Christians by mid-century, and the largest missionary force in history. If you read a single news article about China this year, make sure it is this one.
> I suspect that even the most enthusiastic accounts err on the downside, and that Christianity will have become a Sino-centric religion two generations from now. China may be for the 21st century what Europe was during the 8th-11th centuries, and America has been during the past 200 years: the natural ground for mass evangelization. If this occurs, the world will change beyond our capacity to recognize it. Islam might defeat the western Europeans, simply by replacing their diminishing numbers with immigrants, but it will crumble beneath the challenge from the East._
> 
> Rabbit Trail:
> Commentary from Asia Times, Christianity finds a fulcrum in Asia
> Original Source, The Uphill Journey of Catholicism in China
> 
> What is God doing in China? What are the implications? Numbers are what people think about first and most. Its really much more complicated by that. This year actually marks 200th anniversary of the first protestant missionary to China, Robert Morrison. Missions to China actually goes back before Morrison to the 1500s with the Jesuits and prolly even before that. The process of the work of God in China has shown us many things not only about missions but the growth of the church (id rather not say church growth) and personal discipleship. It has caused us to reconsider our methodologies and even our securities.


 

I hope not. Look what the Abrahamic religions is doing to the ME. China should stick to it own thoughts.

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## Thomas

Chinese-Dragon said:


> *Religion is not particularly important in China.*
> 
> China has the largest number of non-religious people in the world,



If Christianity is growing at such a large rate in China it must hold more importance then you think.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Thomas said:


> If Christianity is growing at such a large rate in China it must hold more importance then you think.


 
China has a very large population. Such issues will not end up affecting the majority of people.

But I'm not particularly bothered, if anyone wants to take up a religion, or if they want to stay non-religious.

It's their own personal business.


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## below_freezing

If Christians try an uprising again, I am not against the use of heavy force to repress them.

Christianity is much more dangerous to China than Islam, in fact, on the level of Falun Gong. Radical Islam has killed only 100 Chinese. Radical Christians have killed 20 million directly, and perhaps as many as 60 million indirectly. If any Christian radicals try to repeat 1850 again, the full strategic force of the police and PLA must be turned against them.


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## Thomas

below_freezing said:


> If Christians try an uprising again, I am not against the use of heavy force to repress them.
> 
> Christianity is much more dangerous to China than Islam, in fact, on the level of Falun Gong. Radical Islam has killed only 100 Chinese. Radical Christians have killed 20 million directly, and perhaps as many as 60 million indirectly. If any Christian radicals try to repeat 1850 again, the full strategic force of the police and PLA must be turned against them.


 
Not sure what radical Christians today you are talking about that might rise up. 

Maybe you are talking about these Christians?


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## Aramsogo

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> Religion in China
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Extracts from:
> 
> Religion in China - Council on Foreign Relations
> 
> Falun Gong (also known as Falun Dafa) is a spiritual movement that blends aspects of Taoism, Buddhism, and Qigong, which is a traditional Chinese exercise is banned.
> 
> Segal is also skeptical, saying, "It would have to be a completely different kind of political environment" for truly independent churches and religious groups to emerge.


 
The Council of Foreign Relatione is a well known Zionist organization. They have their own agenda, mainly the survival of the Jewish race. Chinese people should not think for a second they give a damn about China.

India is the Zionist's backup plan. If they ever get kicked out of the US like they have 170 times in other nations since the dawn of civilization, India meet your future rulers.

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## scuthan

asianamerican said:


> I hope not. Look what the Abrahamic religions is doing to the ME. China should stick to it own thoughts.


 
never take statistics made by church gays for serious. fa lungong said it has 100 million followers in china. buddhism association says it has 300 million followers in china. as early as ten years ago, Christian guys said there are over 100 million christians in china. 

i cannot say it is untrue categorically, but my experience tells otherwise. there are 70 million CCP members in china, they are everywhere around us. but there are few christian around me.

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## StingRoy

below_freezing said:


> If Christians try an uprising again, I am not against the use of heavy force to repress them.



You mean something in these lines?

China Detains Worshipers Over Praying In Public 
BEIJING &#8212; The police detained dozens of members of an underground Protestant church on Sunday after the congregation tried to pray in a public plaza in the north of the capital.

The raid on the church, which sought to pray outside after it was evicted from its building under government pressure, was part of a broad crackdown on dissent over the last seven weeks. The campaign has led to the jailing of scores of rights lawyers, writers and activists, as well as the repression of unauthorized worship.

The authorities have also clamped down on less obvious threats, canceling events as diverse as St. Patrick&#8217;s Day parades and a collegiate debate tournament this weekend.

The Protestant church, Shouwang, was evicted last week from the space it was renting after the government pressured the landlord not to renew the lease. The congregation, whose 1,000 members make it one of the largest unregistered churches in China, has been seeking legal recognition since 2006. 
....


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## Chinese-Dragon

StingRoy said:


> You mean something in these lines?
> 
> China Detains Worshipers Over Praying In Public
> BEIJING &#8212; The police detained dozens of members of an *underground *Protestant church on Sunday after the congregation tried to pray in a public plaza in the north of the capital.


 
Well that is what they get for joining an underground organization.

It is not that difficult to find a proper Church.

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## oct605032048

scuthan said:


> never take statistics made by church gays for serious. fa lungong said it has 100 million followers in china. buddhism association says it has 300 million followers in china. as early as ten years ago, Christian guys said there are over 100 million christians in china.
> 
> i cannot say it is untrue categorically, but my experience tells otherwise. there are 70 million CCP members in china, they are everywhere around us. but there are few christian around me.


 
Well people can be budalism, taoism and christian at the same time. That partly explained the figure of religious population in China is 'that' big.

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## oct605032048

Yet I still don't get it why people would believe in god? it is totally ridiculous. Yes I understand some people prefer the idea of freedom of religion but that is his own business. Please do not drag others down to the water by annoying preaching or converting activities.

The bottom line is the freedom of not being corroded by such thoughts for us and our children must be protected.

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## Chinese-Dragon

China has the largest number of non-religious people in the world.

Irreligion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Mech

I hope it becomes all christian.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> I hope it becomes all christian.


 
Any particular reason for that?


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## oct605032048

Mech said:


> I hope it becomes all christian.



your wish.


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## no_name

I don't mind religion, just not the ones that agressively go about recruiting people, saying that there is only one way to be saved. 
The truth is not exclusive nor special.

Also poor/poorly educated people are more likely to be made to believe.

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## Mech

well i guess that's partly because I'm a christian and on top of that, the *eveeeiil commies* would finally loose credibility and hopefully be toppled. And i don't know man, i really don't hate china or the people there...i just hate all the Chinese CPC folk in the forum. Besides, china could use some freedom of speech and expression.

There aint a thing in the world called "christian communist government".


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## Rig Vedic

below_freezing said:


> If Christians try an uprising again, I am not against the use of heavy force to repress them.
> 
> Christianity is much more dangerous to China than Islam, in fact, on the level of Falun Gong. Radical Islam has killed only 100 Chinese. Radical Christians have killed 20 million directly, and perhaps as many as 60 million indirectly. If any Christian radicals try to repeat 1850 again, the full strategic force of the police and PLA must be turned against them.



There are better ways.

Japan is an open and free society but there are very few Christians. Increasingly, in Europe and America, Churches are empty. 

Not that I have anything against genuine Christians, but it's true that there is often a political angle.

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## Thomas

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Well that is what they get for joining an underground organization.
> 
> *It is not that difficult to find a proper Church*.




By proper I assume you mean one that tow's the party line and reports on it's members?


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## StingRoy

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Well that is what they get for joining an underground organization.
> 
> It is not that difficult to find a proper Church.


Oops... sorry I oversaw the "underground" part. Of course religion has to be approved and certified first.


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## no_name

Religion should respect state laws.

If you don't do questionable conduct nor subvert the state you shouldn't fear the government.


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## tanlixiang28776

Thomas said:


> By proper I assume you mean one that tow's the party line and reports on it's members?


 
No just one that isn't a cult.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> well i guess that's partly because I'm a christian and on top of that, the *eveeeiil commies* would finally loose credibility and hopefully be toppled. And i don't know man, i really don't hate china or the people there...i just hate all the Chinese CPC folk in the forum. Besides, china could use some freedom of speech and expression.
> 
> There aint a thing in the world called "christian communist government".


 
You hate us, yet you want us to take up your religion?


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## Mech

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You hate us, yet you want us to take up your religion?




okay keep twisting what i said....-.-


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## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> okay keep twisting what i said....-.-


 
You said you hate the Chinese members here. Who are just ordinary Chinese people, most of whom actually live overseas.

And you also said that you wish all of China becomes Christian.

Sorry to dissapoint you, but the Chinese members here seem fairly representative of the average Chinese people that you would meet on the street.

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## oct605032048

Rig Vedic said:


> There are better ways.
> 
> Japan is an open and free society but there are very few Christians. Increasingly, in Europe and America, Churches are empty.
> 
> Not that I have anything against genuine Christians, but it's true that there is often a political angle.


Do you know why?

My attitude or Chinese people's attitude toward Christian has nothing to do with 'eeeevil commieees'. It is national value culture and characteristic. 
For thousands of years, religions (not just christian) had never truely won a highly respected social status but is the mere servant of the then Impirial powers and are widely considered a kinds of cancer-like stuff live within the society.

---------- Post added at 02:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 AM ----------

sometimes it grows too fast and a surgery is needed to keep the society health.


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## ptldM3

below_freezing said:


> If Christians try an uprising again, I am not against the use of heavy force to repress them.
> 
> Christianity is much more dangerous to China than Islam, in fact, on the level of Falun Gong. Radical Islam has killed only 100 Chinese. Radical Christians have killed 20 million directly, and perhaps as many as 60 million indirectly. If any Christian radicals try to repeat 1850 again, the full strategic force of the police and PLA must be turned against them.



Of course you are not, you were the same immature kid that shouted Christians should be stomped out like roaches. Interesting how the atheists and Buddhists are grinding their teeth and putting themselves in the moral class of Hitler yet you it is the Christians that are responsible for millions of deaths. Who is the one responsible for the deaths and prosecutions of millions of Russian, Chinese, and various other nationalities? Was it the Christians? As I stated before my family was imprisoned and prosecuted back in Soviet times for being Christians, so don't go around spouting your nonsense about Christians being the problem, we all know who is the problem.

Christians want nothing from anyone other than to be left alone, so there will be no PLA or power ranger police using full strategic force. 

And one last word, I said this before and I will repeat it again, for all the foreigners spouting anti Christian hate while living in Christian founded countries--please shut up and go back to your home countries if Christianity is so repulsive, in fact dont bring your customs or religion to Christian founded nations. It seems a little unfair that you jokers freely warship your gods and have the right to believe in your customs but you deny others,--your own country men the same rights, pathetic jokers.


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## Chinese-Dragon

ptldM3 said:


> And one last word, I said this before and I will repeat it again, for all the foreigners spouting anti Christian hate while living in Christian founded countries--please shut up and go back to your home countries if Christianity is so repulsive, in fact don&#8217;t bring your customs or religion to Christian founded nations. It seems a little unfair that you jokers freely warship your gods and have the right to believe in your customs but you deny others,--your own country men the same rights, pathetic jokers.


 
By saying "Christian countries" what you really mean is "Secular countries". Which are composed of many different faiths, and have a higher rate of atheism than many other countries.

And in your country (Russia), around 50% of the population are now atheists/non-religious.

Also, just to clarify... which "foreigner" has been spouting anti-Christian hate, and are you demanding that they leave their country of residence at once? Or do they get 20 minutes to pack their bags?


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## Rig Vedic

ptldM3 said:


> Of course you are not, you were the same immature kid that shouted Christians should be stomped out like roaches. Interesting how the atheists and Buddhists are grinding their teeth and putting themselves in the moral class of Hitler yet you it is the Christians that are responsible for millions of deaths. Who is the one responsible for the deaths and prosecutions of millions of Russian, Chinese, and various other nationalities? Was it the Christians? As I stated before my family was imprisoned and prosecuted back in Soviet times for being Christians, so don't go around spouting your nonsense about Christians being the problem, we all know who is the problem.
> 
> Christians want nothing from anyone other than to be left alone, so there will be no PLA or power ranger police using full strategic force.
> 
> And one last word, I said this before and I will repeat it again, for all the foreigners spouting anti Christian hate while living in Christian founded countries--please shut up and go back to your home countries if Christianity is so repulsive, in fact dont bring your customs or religion to Christian founded nations. It seems a little unfair that you jokers freely warship your gods and have the right to believe in your customs but you deny others,--your own country men the same rights, pathetic jokers.



The Bolsheviks were against the Russian Orthodox Church. In other countries Christianity is used as a political tool. For example, in the US there are Pat Robertson and John Hagee.


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## ptldM3

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Original Post By ptldM3
> By saying "Christian countries" what you really mean is "Secular countries". Which are composed of many different faiths, and have a higher rate of atheism than many other countries.
> 
> And in your country (Russia), around 50% of the population are now atheists/non-religious.
> 
> Also, just to clarify... which "foreigner" has been spouting anti-Christian hate, and are you demanding that they leave their country of residence at once? Or do they get 20 minutes to pack their bags?


 
No by Christian countries I mean Christian countries founded on Christianity, migration and foreign customs do not apply.

I'm also aware of the atheists in Russia and most at least respect Christianity. As for the foreigners spouting anti Christian propaganda, scroll back several pages and you will see who these foreigners are. And those foreigners should leave their country of residence if they can't be fair, 20 minutes, 20 days it does not mater, if they freely practice their religion in a Christian founded or Christian dominated country yet they deny their own people in their own homeland the same right then they should leave.


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## no_name

Chinese-Dragon said:


> By saying "Christian countries" what you really mean is "Secular countries". Which are composed of many different faiths, and have a higher rate of atheism than many other countries.
> 
> And in your country (Russia), around 50% of the population are now atheists/non-religious.
> 
> Also, just to clarify... which "foreigner" has been spouting anti-Christian hate, and are you demanding that they leave their country of residence at once? Or do they get 20 minutes to pack their bags?


 
It's also complicated by the fact that industrial revolution happened at the same time, and also republic as a form of government became popular.


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## Chinese-Dragon

ptldM3 said:


> No by Christian countries I mean Christian countries founded on Christianity, migration of foreign customs and people do not apply to.


 
So by what authority, do you say that these people should shut up and go back to their home countries? 

And who are you talking about specifically?


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## ptldM3

Chinese-Dragon said:


> So by what authority, do you say that these people should shut up and go back to their home countries?
> 
> And who are you talking about specifically?


 
By no authority I was proving a point, but I guess that was too difficult to comprehend. And one member I was talking about was aerospace engineer, once I gave him the lecture of him bringing his customs in to a Christian nation (the US) while denying Chinese Christian the same rights he hit a brick wall. Like I said, point proven.


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## TEXAS BATTLESTAR

5Star said:


> Paris by night is like a comedy for any sensible Vietnamese to laugh at them. Anytime I see them parade a private-first class near high-school dropout in the U.S military on stage and treat him like a super hero it just boggle my mind.
> 
> Paris by Night needs to look at their adversary the Viet Cong. These people hardly had any education but they produce world-class scholar like Ngo Bao Chau who wins world-class award ie the Field Medal; that is something that bring pride to the Vietnamese, not some nail salon scientist or private first class in the U.S military that they keep parading.


 
Exactly! How many Vietnamese youth these days care about their people's history? Sadly not too many. The only good thing I like about "Paris By Night" are the hot ladies. The guys look too g@y with their too much make-up.

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## below_freezing

ptldM3 said:


> Of course you are not, you were the same immature kid that shouted Christians should be stomped out like roaches. Interesting how the atheists and Buddhists are grinding their teeth and putting themselves in the moral class of Hitler yet you it is the Christians that are responsible for millions of deaths. Who is the one responsible for the deaths and prosecutions of millions of Russian, Chinese, and various other nationalities? Was it the Christians? As I stated before my family was imprisoned and prosecuted back in Soviet times for being Christians, so don't go around spouting your nonsense about Christians being the problem, we all know who is the problem.
> 
> Christians want nothing from anyone other than to be left alone, so there will be no PLA or power ranger police using full strategic force.
> 
> And one last word, I said this before and I will repeat it again, for all the foreigners spouting anti Christian hate while living in Christian founded countries--please shut up and go back to your home countries if Christianity is so repulsive, in fact dont bring your customs or religion to Christian founded nations. It seems a little unfair that you jokers freely warship your gods and have the right to believe in your customs but you deny others,--your own country men the same rights, pathetic jokers.


 
Have you ever heard of the Taiping Rebellion, which was started by a Christian and killed 20-60 million people on a scale of slaughter not seen by Stalin and Hitler combined? This is documented fact as well, with no disputes between both east and west.

Christians do not want to be left alone. They want to recruit others into their cult. Use of force to suppress cults is completely OK with me.

I'm in my own land, an atheist country, I will say whatever I want.


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## Aramsogo




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## T-Rex

below_freezing said:


> If Christians try an uprising again, I am not against the use of heavy force to repress them.
> 
> Christianity is much more dangerous to China than Islam, in fact, on the level of Falun Gong. Radical Islam has killed only 100 Chinese. Radical Christians have killed 20 million directly, and perhaps as many as 60 million indirectly. If any Christian radicals try to repeat 1850 again, the full strategic force of the police and PLA must be turned against them.


 
BTW what really happened in 1850, would you please clarify?


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## rudrakx

> CHINA TO BECOME WORLD'S LARGEST CHRISTIAN NATION BY MID-CENTURY


Very late to express opinion. I doubt the new report, Chinese people are not gonna fall for any religion, certainly not Christianity. This news rather whole thread does not really elaborate the reasons why a Chinese would choose to follow Christianity ?


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## Chinese-Dragon

T-Rex said:


> BTW what really happened in 1850, would you please clarify?


 
Here you go buddy:

Taiping Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Thomas

T-Rex said:


> BTW what really happened in 1850, would you please clarify?



you can read it here. 

Taiping Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Just because a person or group of persons call themselves Christians doesn't in fact make them one. If they are not living their life according to how Jesus taught they were to live. Then they can expect to be judged accordingly. Jesus said that many will stand before him on that day and talk about the wonderful things they had done in his name. And he will reply he never knew them. Depart from me you who practice lawlessness. They will then be cast into hell.


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## T-Rex

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Here you go buddy:
> 
> Taiping Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 
These Christians are definitely on the same track again. You know, old habits are hard to break.

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## monitor

East or west Islam is the best

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## Mech

Self delete................


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## Luftwaffe

Its weird when debates comes to Islam every one rushes to bash it, but when christianity comes in someone would pop-in to whine. 

Well the true essence and the innocence will fade away with christianity takes over China being thrust upon forcibly by missionaries in disguise tourists to China. 

Take the example of Africa and the forcible conversions in the name of food and clothing and what not. I know a guy from Vancouver doing all this missionary thing for the past 30 years in Africa by his own mouth he regrets done things.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Well that is what they get for joining an underground organization.
> 
> It is not that difficult to find a proper Church.



The problem is that a 'proper' Church means a Govt regulated Church, where the padre is selected by the Govt, the sermon is vetted by the Govt before being given and the members monitored.

A Big Brother is Watching You situation.

Hence, underground Churches.

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## Tiki Tam Tam

Luftwaffe said:


> Its weird when debates comes to Islam every one rushes to bash it, but when christianity comes in someone would pop-in to whine.
> 
> Well the true essence and the innocence will fade away with christianity takes over China being thrust upon forcibly by missionaries in disguise tourists to China.
> 
> Take the example of Africa and the forcible conversions in the name of food and clothing and what not. I know a guy from Vancouver doing all this missionary thing for the past 30 years in Africa by his own mouth he regrets done things.



That is correct that there is a rush to Islam bash.

That is possibly because the Islamic warrior bash the world and themselves too!

And so the reaction.

Christianity, excepting for the missionary zeal of some, is almost dead in aggressive intent. Who bothers about an issue that is more or less moribund?

China can never become Christian. First, the idea of religion and the fervour that accompanies it, has been practically wiped out. Second, the Chinese indigenous religion is quite benign and more attuned to the Chinese psyche than the imported varieties of religion.


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## jdme

This is disturbing at best. "Christianity" has less to do with Christ and more to do with Europe, it's "homeland". Most often, new converts are fundamentalists and completely at odd with their own native culture and people. South Korea is perfect example. It's one "western" thing that should be thoroughly rejected.

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## T-Rex

Thomas said:


> you can read it here.
> 
> Taiping Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Just because a person or group of persons call themselves Christians doesn't in fact make them one. If they are not living their life according to how Jesus taught they were to live. Then they can expect to be judged accordingly. Jesus said that many will stand before him on that day and talk about the wonderful things they had done in his name. And he will reply he never knew them. Depart from me you who practice lawlessness. They will then be cast into hell.


 
If so just because Bin Laden calls himself an Islamist doesn't make him so. But many in the west are ready to attack Islam because what people like Laden are doing.

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## below_freezing

Who gave Thomas the right to reject someone else as Christian, and take away their religion? Thats a violation of freedom of religion. This is the cheap trick of Christians, everyone good they call is a "christian" but if a Christian does something bad, they claim they're not really Christians! So who gave them the right to represent those people and take away their religion?!

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## jdme

monitor said:


> East or west Islam is the best


 

I am guessing you think world is flat! Every point on that latitude or it's twin on otherside of equator satisfies the criteria of "Golden Point". Earth is almost a sphere and technically there are infinite "Golden Points" on earth. But I have to give it you, it does rally up the faithful


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## jdme

below_freezing said:


> *Who gave Thomas the right to reject someone else as Christian, and take away their religion*? Thats a violation of freedom of religion. This is the cheap trick of Christians, everyone good they call is a "christian" but if a Christian does something bad, they claim they're not really Christians! So who gave them the right to represent those people and take away their religion?!


 
Actually it's against the teaching of Christianity!


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## Bhairava

People must be sane enough to know what is their native culture and they should be proud of that, which unfortunately is not the case in many countries.


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## Mech

Gounder said:


> People must be sane enough to know what is their native culture and they should be proud of that, which unfortunately is not the case in many countries.


 
Just because Hinduism is "native" to India doesn't mean a native should be following it. Those who follow a faith follow it because they believe it to be the truth. I am proud of my culture and ethnicity, it does not mean i should be proud of the religions that spawns as a culture progresses. I am not addressing you specifically but the saffron parties in general. They have no right to demand those of different faiths to "return" to hinduism just because it is what our "ancestors" followed. I don't understand this argument. 

Anyway, my own ancestors as far as my family tree goes, (we have a written record from 18- something) have all been Christians. Even if they weren't, i couldn't care any less.


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## jdme

Mech said:


> Just because Hinduism is "native" to India doesn't mean a native should be following it. Those who follow a faith follow it because they believe it to be the truth. I am proud of my culture and ethnicity, it does not mean i should be proud of the religions that spawns as a culture progresses. I am not addressing you specifically but the saffron parties in general. They have no right to demand those of different faiths to "return" to hinduism just because it is what our "ancestors" followed. I don't understand this argument.
> 
> Anyway, my own ancestors as far as my family tree goes, (we have a written record from 18- something) have all been Christians. Even if they weren't, i couldn't care any less.


 

Odd that you somehow believe one should be critical of even "traditional" values and yet blindly follow Christianity? You are right, one can do whatever the hell they want. It's a free country afterall. But I always found being informed more important that being "closer" to some mythical God. And yeh, Hinduism is equally lame.


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## Major Sahab

*Excellent, China, Excellent!!! You are Super Power in Asia and that is what we need you and are proud of it. *


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## Luftwaffe

Whatever happens around the world Islam is blamed for it if you look at it from an angle, its the christians who are going Extreme, they would target muslims, Islam, China ofcourse they can't digest every morning bashing China for the human right and what not and then bring in christian teachings in it. No offense to christians i respect them as well, but please that christian mullah psyche is showing no magic upon this world nothing has been fixed globally in the name of christianity their god and their interests they've unleashed wrath on Muslims states and not just that now they've extreme views about China what is next?...So look around who is the target libya, yemen, iraq, afghanistan, chechnya, kashmir, even pakistan and now another dimension China..this is getting serious fanatical extremist fascist christian govts are running amok. Christian missionaries are destroying cultures.


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## Mech

@luftwaffe,

we are not talking about Islam here....i think you have it confused with Christianity.


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## Rig Vedic

Mech said:


> Just because Hinduism is "native" to India doesn't mean a native should be following it. Those who follow a faith follow it because they believe it to be the truth. I am proud of my culture and ethnicity, it does not mean i should be proud of the religions that spawns as a culture progresses. I am not addressing you specifically but the saffron parties in general. They have no right to demand those of different faiths to "return" to hinduism just because it is what our "ancestors" followed. I don't understand this argument.
> 
> Anyway, my own ancestors as far as my family tree goes, (we have a written record from 18- something) have all been Christians. Even if they weren't, i couldn't care any less.


 
How do you feel about the fact that many people in Europe and the US are turning towards Sanatan Dharma? (U.S. Views on God and Life Are Turning Hindu - Newsweek)


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## Luftwaffe

Mech we are not talking Islam here but in reference to the blame being put on certain religion while "they" move forwards with their dirty agenda in the name of their religion destroying culture and interference with others in this case now China.


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## jdme

Rig Vedic said:


> How do you feel about the fact that many people in Europe and the US are turning towards Sanatan Dharma? (U.S. Views on God and Life Are Turning Hindu - Newsweek)


 

You obviously have not been to US! Silly article...


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## Mech

Rig Vedic said:


> How do you feel about the fact that many people in Europe and the US are turning towards Sanatan Dharma?


 
What am i supposed to feel? Besides sympathy. 
Like i said, i believe what i believe because i believe it to be the truth. Others may have different views. How is that you associate christanity with europe or the americas? If you do a bit of research, Christianity came to the shores of Malabar from a direct disciple of Jesus Christ himself. A disciple called "Thomas" landed in kerala and established the first church in India. Long before even the Europeans got the wind of it. In fact, Christianity was established in India before the British or the Portuguese.

What surprised the first wave of foreigners who came with a vision of spreading the gospel were surprised to find Christianity already existing in the subcontinent. They didnt like it simply because they didn't control it. The British, Portuguese , all have been against the churches founded in India until the 19th century. They even ransacked a church to steal documents and relics.

Not to mention, Christianity also came to India as a result of Syrian migration long before the British ever set foot here.


----------



## Rig Vedic

Mech said:


> What am i supposed to feel? Besides sympathy.
> Like i said, i believe what i believe because i believe it to be the truth. Others may have different views. How is that you associate christanity with europe or the americas? If you do a bit of research, Christianity came to the shores of Malabar from a direct disciple of Jesus Christ himself. A disciple called "Thomas" landed in kerala and established the first church in India. Long before even the Europeans got the wind of it. In fact, Christianity was established in India before the British or the Portuguese.
> 
> What surprised the first wave of foreigners who came with a vision of spreading the gospel were surprised to find Christianity already existing in the subcontinent. They didnt like it simply because they didn't control it. The British, Portuguese , all have been against the churches founded in India until the 19th century. They even ransacked a church to steal documents and relics.
> 
> Not to mention, Christianity also came to India as a result of Syrian migration long before the British ever set foot here.



You may find this interesting: Thomas in India - neither factual nor secular - The St Thomas In India History Swindle

Also see this article, originally published in the Illustrated Weekly of India, in 1987: Archbishop Arulappa Makes History


----------



## below_freezing

jdme said:


> Actually it's against the teaching of Christianity!


 
Bin Laden is also against the teachings of Islam, but does the Wall Street regime stop reminding everyone that he is a Muslim?

Not all Jews are Zionists, but if Israel bombs civilians, people mistakenly blame all the Jews. Why?


----------



## jdme

below_freezing said:


> Not all Jews are Zionists, but if Israel bombs civilians, *people mistakenly blame all the Jews*. Why?


 
Not people but Muslims (if there is a distinction). More to do with sheer hate of Jews and creation of Israel and less to do with any bombing. Afterall, there are Palestinians refuges in all the neighboring countries and they are treated like crap. Darfoor happened and Muslim nations didn't even bat an eye. Should Israel be criticized for how it has treated Palestinians? Perhaps. Is that why most Muslim nations hate it (or atleast one around it). No. Palestinian are nothing more than political point for Arab nations to take shots at Israel. There is absolutely no sincere gesture from Arab nations (and Muslim nations at large) to actually help Palestinians.


----------



## Mech

Rig Vedic said:


> You may find this interesting: Thomas in India - neither factual nor secular - The St Thomas In India History Swindle
> 
> Also see this article, originally published in the Illustrated Weekly of India, in 1987: Archbishop Arulappa Makes History



Do you honestly expect me to take the words of koenraad elst or hindu author seriously? Koenraad is a known orientalist and that too without any institutional affiliation. He is by no means an authority of anything. Here is an interesting thing, he actively defends the hindutva movement. Which shatters his credibility one hundred and ten percent. Numerous works of his involve "bashing Christianity", "bashing islam" etc.

There is no swindle and there is no falsification, thomas did land in malabar. I suggest you actually read the historical accounts rather than conspiracy theories. This is no different to how Pakistanis say indus civilization is wholly Pakistani . 

Here is how you should go about it. Instead of googling "st.thomas a liar" or "st.thomas did not land in India", "proving christianity wrong" etc etc. Try and Google for authoritative accounts from reliable sources. If you cannot remain impartial or biased then forget what i said.


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## Rig Vedic

Mech said:


> Do you honestly expect me to take the words of koenraad elst or hindu author seriously? Koenraad is a known orientalist and that too without any institutional affiliation. He is by no means an authority of anything. Here is an interesting thing, he actively defends the hindutva movement. Which shatters his credibility one hundred and ten percent. Numerous works of his involve "bashing Christianity", "bashing islam" etc. There is no swindle and there is no falsification. I suggest you actually read the historical accounts rather than conspiracy theories. This is no different to how Pakistanis say indus civilization is wholly Pakistani .
> 
> Here is how you should go about it. Instead of googling "st.thomas a liar" or "st.thomas did not land in India", "proving christianity wrong" etc etc. Try and Google for authoritative accounts from reliable sources. If you cannot remain impartial or biased then forget what i said.



This is what is called an ad-hominem argument. Elst is quoting from historical sources, including "The Acts of Thomas". Also try to understand why Archbishop Arulappa was caught red-handed in forgery.

By the way, I have no problems with your being Christian. But please try to free yourself from falsehoods.


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## Mech

And assuming the scenario (assuming) where st.thomas never landed in malabar, i still wouldn't give a second thought about following hinduism which is "native" to india. Simply because i do not believe it to be true. Just because my people came up with it, doesn't mean it has to be true. I can also wax eloquently about the numerous evil practices that were prevalent in Hinduism until the British landed and got rid of it.


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## Mech

Rig Vedic said:


> By the way, I have no problems with your being Christian. But please try to free yourself from dishonest indoctrination.



Free yourself from dishonest indoctrination and propaganda.

Regards,


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## Bhairava

Mech said:


> Just because Hinduism is "native" to India doesn't mean a native should be following it. Those who follow a faith follow it because they believe it to be the truth. I am proud of my culture and ethnicity, it does not mean i should be proud of the religions that spawns as a culture progresses. I am not addressing you specifically but the saffron parties in general. They have no right to demand those of different faiths to "return" to hinduism just because it is what our "ancestors" followed. I don't understand this argument.
> 
> Anyway, my own ancestors as far as my family tree goes, (we have a written record from 18- something) have all been Christians. Even if they weren't, i couldn't care any less.


 
Dude just go easy on the adrenaline.

I never said that once you become Christians you forget your native culture. Actually it is far from that.

And I have seen Syrian Christians celebrating Onam with the same fervour any Hindu Malayalee would celebrate. Ask how ? I studied in a college on TN-Kerala border with a huge number of Malayalee students.

The problem starts with the new converts who are much more fanatical than the traditional followers and for them devotion to Christianity is synonymous with denouncing Hinduism as satan worship as is happening in various parts of India specifically the Tribal tracts of Central India, coastal belt of Karnataka and NE.

And let it be clear that Hinduism in its current form is indeed a native of India and a progenitor of Sanatan Dharma.


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## Rig Vedic

PS: The second half of the story of Archbishop Arulappa: 2 &#8211; Archbishop Arulappa sends his document forger to jail &#8211; Ganesh Iyer & K.P. Sunil


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## Mech

Gounder said:


> Dude just go easy on the adrenaline.
> 
> I never said that once you become Christians you forget your native culture. Actually it is far from that.
> 
> And I have seen Syrian Christians celebrating Onam with the same fervour any Hindu Malayalee would celebrate. Ask how ? I studied in a college on TN-Kerala border with a huge number of Malayalee students.
> 
> The problem starts with the new converts who are much more fanatical than the traditional followers and for them devotion to Christianity is synonymous with denouncing Hinduism as satan worship as is happening in various parts of India specifically the Tribal tracts of Central India, coastal belt of Karnataka and NE.
> 
> And let it be clear that Hinduism in its current form is indeed a native of India and a progenitor of Sanatan Dharma.


 
I celebrate Onam with as much gusto as any other malayalee. Fact remains i celebrate it not because i attach religious significance to it. But because it is a traditional festival. As for the new Pentecostals cropping up all over, i do not agree with them and they are much too aggressive; but if the tribal feel Christianity offers a better alternative and somehow help them become better human beings, i say go right ahead. That being said, i know nothing of the pentecostal missions in the northern states, neither do i qualify as an authority on north indian geo politics.


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## Mech

sigh...another thread derailed. I guess its partly my fault. Sorry to 'teh' mods.


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## Rig Vedic

Mech said:


> And assuming the scenario (assuming) where st.thomas never landed in malabar, i still wouldn't give a second thought about following hinduism which is "native" to india. Simply because i do not believe it to be true. Just because my people came up with it, doesn't mean it has to be true.


So far so good. 



> I can also wax eloquently about the numerous evil practices that were prevalent in Hinduism until the British landed and got rid of it.


This is where political polemics are likely to come in. You should also read some views from the other side, for example the excellent work of Rajiv Malhotra. Furthermore, all of that should be irrelevant to you as far as justifying your faith is concerned.


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## Mech

As for the guy peddling the 'arulappa' story. isn't arulappa a catholic? If yes, there is no way the native Indian churches would part with the documents and the inscriptions they hold dear to them for any outsider. It is reserved for the heads of these churches not any other. This is why the British had to ransack native churches.


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## Jackdaws

Religion is a personal matter. I am agnostic myself - I don't have to blow a conch or wear vermilion on my forehead to prove my Indianness


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## Mech

Rig Vedic said:


> So far so good, nothing objectionable.
> 
> 
> This is where political polemics are likely to come in. You should also read some views from the other side, for example the excellent work of Rajiv Malhotra. Furthermore, all of that should be irrelevant to you as far as justifying your faith is concerned.


 

Okay new indian history - Sati did not exist, the widows just liked to play with fire...Child marriages never happened, they were just prematurely active........etc 

Hinduism, to me is severely flawed.


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## Bhairava

Mech said:


> I celebrate Onam with as much gusto as any other malayalee. Fact remains i celebrate it not because i attach religious significance to it. But because it is a traditional festival. As for the new Pentecostals cropping up all over, i do not agree with them and they are much too aggressive;



Did I not say the same thing ?



Mech said:


> but if the tribal feel Christianity offers a better alternative and somehow help them become better human beings, i say go right ahead. That being said, i know nothing of the pentecostal missions in the northern states, neither do i qualify as an authority on north indian geo politics.



Why go North when you have better example down South ? And the problem here is in many cases the Tribals are not allowed to 'decide' in the same way an educated guy from a city decides for him.


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## Rig Vedic

Mech said:


> As for the guy peddling the 'arulappa' story. isn't arulappa a catholic? If yes, there is no way the native Indian churches would part with the documents and the inscriptions they hold dear to them for any outsider. It is reserved for the heads of these churches not any other. This is why the British had to ransack native churches.



Archbishop Arulappa seems to have been a Catholic. Because of the lack of evidence for the Thomas story, he decided to forge some "ancient manuscripts". But he was caught.


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## Bhairava

Mech said:


> Okay new indian history - Sati did not exist, the widows just liked to play with fire...Child marriages never happened, they were just prematurely active........etc
> 
> Hinduism, to me is severely flawed.


 
The origin of Sati is linked to the Islamic invasions. It did not come just like a bolt from the blue. Nor was Sati ever in South India which did not experience the brunt of Islamic invasions.

Child marriages was there in almost all religions in India. Infact it was a cultural thing and not a religious thing. I hope you know the difference.

I agree Hinduism was severely flawed. But again it is the ability to accept the flaws,correct them and never be rigid which is the inherent strength in Hinduism.


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## Jackdaws

Mech said:


> Okay new indian history - Sati did not exist, the widows just liked to play with fire...Child marriages never happened, they were just prematurely active........etc
> 
> Hinduism, to me is severely flawed.



Of course it is. Only newer faiths like Buddhism and Sikhism were able to iron out flaws which were present in older faiths - otherwise all religions are flawed


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## Rig Vedic

Mech said:


> Okay new indian history - Sati did not exist, the widows just liked to play with fire...Child marriages never happened, they were just prematurely active........etc


Do you want me to talk about the tortures in the Goa inquisition? Here is a historical account 


> The inquisition was set as a tribunal, headed by a judge, sent to Goa from Portugal and was assisted by two judicial henchmen. The judge was answerable to no one except to Lisbon and handed down punishments as he saw fit. The Inquisition Laws filled 230 pages and the palace where the Inquisition was conducted was known as the Big House and the Inquisition proceedings were always conducted behind closed shutters and closed doors.
> 
> According to the historian, "*the screams of agony of the victims (men, women, and children) could be heard in the streets, in the stillness of the night, as they were brutally interrogated, flogged, and slowly dismembered in front of their relatives.""Eyelids were sliced off and extremities were amputated carefully, a person could remain conscious even though the only thing that remained was his torso and head.*[20]
> 
> Goa Inquisition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





> Hinduism, to me is severely flawed.



Well, Osama Bin Laden will say that you are going to burn in hell. One cannot argue with blind belief.


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## Jackdaws

Gounder said:


> The origin of Sati is linked to the Islamic invasions. It did not come just like a bolt from the blue. Nor was Sati ever in South India which did not experience the brunt of Islamic invasions.
> 
> Child marriages was there in almost all religions in India. Infact it was a cultural thing and not a religious thing. I hope you know the difference.
> 
> I agree Hinduism was severely flawed. But again it is the ability to accept the flaws,correct them and never be rigid which is the inherent strength in Hinduism.


 
Forget Islamic invasions, Sati predates Islam - Pandu's 2nd wife in Mahabharat - nakul and sahadev's mother commits suicide


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## Rig Vedic

Jackdaws said:


> Of course it is. Only newer faiths like Buddhism and Sikhism were able to iron out flaws which were present in older faiths - otherwise all religions are flawed



It is more complex than that. The Advaita philosophy of Adi Shankara, the philosophy of Buddhism, the Vedas, the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita are all a part of Sanantan Dharma. And Sikhism is in fact a part of that tradition.


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## magan

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Religion is not particularly important in China.
> 
> China has the largest number of non-religious people in the world,


 
its good to be a non religious person...i m olso one of those who donot believe in god.....its always hardwork which makes a man sucessful and rest depend on luck


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## Mech

Rig Vedic said:


> Archbishop Arulappa seems to have been a Catholic. Because of the lack of evidence for the Thomas story, he decided to forge some "ancient manuscripts". But he was caught.


 
He couldnt get any evidence because no one would part with their manuscripts. Not to mention, the character he employed to mine data, never really cared. Why do you need to go back in time when research methodologies were far less advanced and mediocre? Arulappa's case is no different from a modern day scholar forging date to gain doctorate. There are numerous authorities on st.thomas who rely on proper research methodologies and meticulously mine and analyse date.


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## Rig Vedic

Jackdaws said:


> Forget Islamic invasions, Sati predates Islam - Pandu's 2nd wife in Mahabharat - nakul and sahadev's mother commits suicide



People have been committing suicide in all cultures. But Sati is not a recommended practice of Sanatan Dharma.


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## jdme

Mech said:


> And assuming the scenario (assuming) where st.thomas never landed in malabar, i still wouldn't give a second thought about following hinduism which is "native" to india. Simply because i do not believe it to be true. Just because my people came up with it, doesn't mean it has to be true. I can also wax eloquently about the numerous evil practices that were prevalent in Hinduism until the British landed and got rid of it.


 
British got rid of "evil" practices as much as Indian gov. got rid of caste discrimination, meaning nothing. It's like saying racism doesn't exist anymore. All religions must go through great purge. Sati is as much Hindu as burning witches is Christian.


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## Rig Vedic

Mech said:


> He couldnt get any evidence because no one would part with their manuscripts. Not to mention, the character he employed to mine data, never really cared. Why do you need to go back in time when research methodologies were far less advanced and mediocre? Arulappa's case is no different from a modern day scholar forging date to gain doctorate. There are numerous authorities on st.thomas who rely on proper research methodologies and meticulously mine and analyse date.



Read part 2 - Archbishop Arulappa was a participant in the forgery. If there had been any credible evidence, Arulappa could have photographed it, and published with proper citations. By the way, the Archbishop Arulappa forgery is quite recent - from the 1970's. It isn't a case of lack of advanced methodologies, it is a case of lack of honesty.


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## Mech

How is the 'goa inquisition' in anyway related to the christian faith? Christianity does not advocate violence or coercive measures. Infact christianity grew under oppression. There have always been those who come up with their own doctrines and advocate it. The catholic church recognizes the evils comitted by it (witch hunt, etc) . Infact, they have gone to extraordinary lengths to set records straight, instead of justifying it. Fact remains, none of what they did were in accordance with the christian faith. They did what they did for personal gains.


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## jdme

Mech said:


> How is the 'goa inquisition' in anyway related to the christian faith? Christianity does not advocate violence or coercive measures. Infact christianity grew under oppression. There have always been those who come up with their own doctrines and advocate it. The catholic church recognizes the evils comitted by it (witch hunt, etc) . Infact, they have gone to extraordinary lengths to set records straight, instead of justifying it. Fact remains, none of what they did were in accordance with the christian faith. They did what they did for personal gains.


 

LOL..that's typical excuse by all religions (oh we didn't know what we were doing blah blah). Only saving grace is that now they openly denounce it. Thanks "gawd" I am not religious.


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## Mech

Rig Vedic said:


> Read part 2 - Archbishop Arulappa was a participant in the forgery. If there had been any credible evidence, Arulappa could have photographed it, and published with proper citations. By the way, the Archbishop Arulappa forgery is quite recent - from the 1970's. It isn't a case of lack of advanced methodologies, it is a case of lack of honesty.


 
like i said, how is it any different from the numerous researchers out there who forge data? You never bothered to read accounts of other researchers....you just decided to focus on one flawed man.


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## Mech

jdme said:


> LOL..that's typical excuse by all religions (oh we didn't know what we were doing blah blah). Only saving grace is that now they openly denounce it.


 
well, a spade is a spade after all. If what they did is not in accordance with the doctrine how is it associated? 

Btw i am not catholic. Im a marthomite, one of those syrian churches.


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## Rig Vedic

Mech said:


> How is the 'goa inquisition' in anyway related to the christian faith? Christianity does not advocate violence or coercive measures. Infact christianity grew under oppression. There have always been those who come up with their own doctrines and advocate it. The catholic church recognizes the evils comitted by it (witch hunt, etc) . Infact, they have gone to extraordinary lengths to set records straight, instead of justifying it. Fact remains, none of what they did were in accordance with the christian faith. They did what they did for personal gains.



Similalry, Sanatan Dharma has nothing to do with the socials ills maliciously attributed to it. The Church has not expressed guilt and remorse for its crimes in Goa, as far as I know.


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## jdme

Rig Vedic said:


> Similalry, Sanatan Dharma has nothing to do with the socials ills maliciously attributed to it. The Church has not expressed guilt and remorse for its crimes in Goa, as far as I know.


 
Portuguese were creepy people There is already a major debate over virtues of old colonial masters. General consensus is that Portuguese and Spanish thoroughly r*** local culture and supplanted it with their own while English just r**** the country

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## Rig Vedic

Mech said:


> like i said, how is it any different from the numerous researchers out there who forge data? You never bothered to read accounts of other researchers....you just decided to focus on one flawed man.



There are several authoritative studies that argue that the Thomas story is a myth. For example the book: 1991 - The Myth of Saint Thomas and the Mylapore Shiva Temple - Ishwar Sharan

If those that support the St Thomas story want a debate, I'm sure one could be arranged.


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## jdme

Rig Vedic said:


> There are several authoritative studies that argue that the Thomas story is a myth. For example the book: 1991 - The Myth of Saint Thomas and the Mylapore Shiva Temple - Ishwar Sharan
> 
> If those that support the St Thomas story want a debate, I'm sure one could be arranged.


 

Christians in India, that's no myth.


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## Jackdaws

Mech said:


> How is the 'goa inquisition' in anyway related to the christian faith? Christianity does not advocate violence or coercive measures. Infact christianity grew under oppression. There have always been those who come up with their own doctrines and advocate it. The catholic church recognizes the evils comitted by it (witch hunt, etc) . Infact, they have gone to extraordinary lengths to set records straight, instead of justifying it. Fact remains, none of what they did were in accordance with the christian faith. They did what they did for personal gains.


 
Don't even get me started on the church and their series of child abuse cases. Set records straight??? By paying off kids who were raped by priests?


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## Jackdaws

jdme said:


> Portuguese were creepy people There is already a major debate over virtues of old colonial masters. General consensus is that Portuguese and Spanish thoroughly r*** local culture and supplanted it with their own while English just r**** the country


 
Correct - the Belgians take the cake though. The funniest was how the Portuguese tried to hang onto Goa till the 1960s


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## LaBong

Religion is for older folks, why youngsters who have access to alcohol and women become religious? :s


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abir said:


> Religion is for older folks, why youngsters who have access to alcohol and women become religious? :s


 
Religion is for humans.... a man living without any laws or moral is no better thn a dog.

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## LaBong

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Religion is for humans.... a man living without any laws or moral is no better thn a dog.


 
And why do people need an imaginary guy up above the sky to instill morality and sense of righteousness in them? Are they not smarter than canine species?

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## hamtaro

Hopefully they wont become as nuts as these korean christians.


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## Bhairava

jdme said:


> British got rid of "evil" practices as much as Indian gov. got rid of caste discrimination, meaning nothing. It's like saying racism doesn't exist anymore. All religions must go through great purge.* Sati is as much Hindu as burning witches is Christian.*


 
True. Its a horrible practise that has been done away with. And that is the strength of Hinduism. It adapts to the changing times and is not rigid in its stance based on some ancient rules.



Jackdaws said:


> Forget Islamic invasions, Sati predates Islam - Pandu's 2nd wife in Mahabharat - nakul and sahadev's mother commits suicide


 
There were isolated cases which become more prominent with the Islamican invasions. With the importance given to molestation by these invaders, it was looked upon as a more honourable form of death than getting ravaged in their hands. And that is the reason you dont find Sati in the Southern parts.

But then there is no argument that Sati is certainly out of date today and this abominable practise should be done away with,which has almost been accomplished.


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## Bhairava

Mech said:


> like i said, how is it any different from the numerous researchers out there who forge data? You never bothered to read accounts of other researchers....you just decided to focus on one flawed man.


 
It is different in the sense that other researchers do it for a gold medal or a doctorate not affecting other's lives which is not the case of religions which are a sensitive issue for millions, if not billions.


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## Bhairava

hamtaro said:


> Hopefully they wont become as nuts as these korean christians.


 
Err..I find this tagline more often than not.

What do the Koreans,South I presume, do to earn such a name ? 



jdme said:


> Portuguese were creepy people There is already a major debate over virtues of old colonial masters. General consensus is that Portuguese and Spanish thoroughly r*** local culture and supplanted it with their own while English just r**** the country


 
Funny way of putting it. But yeah, its true.


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## SpArK

China cracks down on "unofficial" church: report - MarketWatch


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## jdme

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Religion is for humans.... a man living without any laws or moral is no better thn a dog.


 
You think people need religion for all that? Pakistan was inhabited by dogs before Islam (or for that matter any religion) came there?


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## SpArK

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Religion is for humans.... *a man living without any laws or moral is no better thn a dog*.


 
What about atheist nations? Would you call the people of that country the same>?


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## chops3d

Abir said:


> And why do people need an imaginary guy up above the sky to instill morality and sense of righteousness in them? Are they not smarter than canine species?


 
and the most childish post i have come across..

do you seriously think you are one smart arse in this entire universe, and all others who believe are dumbs??


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## Unbeliever

chops3d said:


> do you seriously think you are one smart arse in this entire universe, and all others who believe are dumbs??



Not necessarily dumb, just indoctrinated from childhood and ignorant towards more logical alternative explanations for the world around them.

That's why people once thought Zeus wrath was directly responsible for every lightning bolt in the sky, because they were not aware of the naturalistic explanation yet.

Current religions have just been shaped (by men) over thousands of years to seem more compelling (be it through threats of punishment, offer of rewards or tricks of language), but they still lack any supporting evidence or inherent rationality, 
just like Zeus and the thousands of other gods many people once believed in that have now become mythology..


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## Thomas

below_freezing said:


> Who gave Thomas the right to reject someone else as Christian, and take away their religion? Thats a violation of freedom of religion. This is the cheap trick of Christians, everyone good they call is a "christian" but if a Christian does something bad, they claim they're not really Christians! So who gave them the right to represent those people and take away their religion?!


 
Jesus said it not me.

*Matthew 7:21*
*Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."*


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## Tiki Tam Tam

jdme said:


> You think people need religion for all that? Pakistan was inhabited by dogs before Islam (or for that matter any religion) came there?


 

You lived in those times?

---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ----------




Thomas said:


> Jesus said it not me.
> 
> *Matthew 7:21*
> *&#8220;Not everyone who says to Me, &#8216;Lord, Lord,&#8217; shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."*



Jesus Saves.

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## jdme

chops3d said:


> and the most childish post i have come across..
> 
> do you seriously think you are one smart arse in this entire universe, and all others who believe are dumbs??


 
Many are simply weak minded, many are dumb, many simply fear the unknown and many look for comfort but NONE do it because it's most logical thing to do.


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## jdme

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> You lived in those times?




Well I wasn't even born when Gandhi was alive and kicking, I wasn't born when Hitler was butchering Jews, hell I was born after Vietnam war (much after). What is your point? Have you met Jesus?


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## Tiki Tam Tam

jdme said:


> Well I wasn't even born when Gandhi was alive and kicking, I wasn't born when Hitler was butchering Jews, hell I was born after Vietnam war (much after). What is your point? Have you met Jesus?



Therefore, you statement that dogs were there in Pakistan would be erroneous and downright ignorant!

That is if one discounts its total misplaced juvenile exuberance!


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## jdme

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> Therefore, you statement that dogs were there in Pakistan would be erroneous and downright ignorant!
> 
> That is if one discounts its total misplaced juvenile exuberance!





> Religion is for humans.... a man living without any laws or moral is no better thn a dog.
> Original Post By Pakistani Nationalist
> 
> 
> 
> You think people need religion for all that? Pakistan was inhabited by dogs before Islam (or for that matter any religion) came there?
Click to expand...


So it's not history but comprehension that is causing problem here.


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## Badabing

ovarel said:


> that may lead them to a western democracy.



And become a theocratic Christian nation? No thanks. That&#8217;s could risk another wave of Crusades and Inquisitions in the guise of economic and/or faith based cultural expansion backed by military actions. 

Many Emperors in China had subscribed to religions and faiths of their own choosing but never imposed it on the people. Most past Emperors were either Buddhists or Taoists, Mongol Emperors were Muslims and Tibetan Buddhists, Manchurian Emperors subscribed to Lamaism from Tibet. The saving grace in China when it came to religions was the fact that there was no centralized religious figure, in the form of a person or governing entity such as the Pope and Vatican. No religious organizations propagated outside of a regional sphere of influence other than some popular temples and highly revered monks in particular areas.

No records of any Buddhist or Taoist armies carrying out government sponsored military campaigns are present in Chinese history against other faiths or the populace until the 19th century. The first purely faith driven and organized military campaign took place in China during the 1840&#8217;s by the armies of the Kingdom of Heavenly Peace led by a Chinese Christian convert. That was the first time a large organized effort to build a new dynasty in the name of religion in China. The irony was its leader, Hong Siu-Chuan, could only address himself as the Brother of Jesus but not the Son of God with his imperial ambitions because you guessed it, he was not a white man. 

So as far as a western democracy model goes, it&#8217;s not a fit for China. Democracy is not a teabag that you just add hot water and stir. It can not be parachuted down with instant transformation made successfully over night. Look at the Philippines, they pretty much copied verbatim what the USA system was and it&#8217;s still not a working democracy; the one in India is still morphing and will be morphing for a long time. 

In 1776, when the USA Constitution was written based on the principles of For, Of and By the People; Native Americans, African slaves, Cajuns, Creoles and others were not considered as part of the People, or people period, so was it really a democracy? It took a long time and many changes to get it to the present state. 60 years after the founding of the USA, was it the second largest economy in the World then as the PRC is today? No, nowhere near that, and what was considered as the American People in 1836 still did not include Native Americans and African Americans, they were simply regarded as uncivilized savages that needed to be pacified and beasts of burden providing cheap labor. As a matter of fact, until the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960's, the USA still denied the right to vote and other basic rights to its largest minority group in practice, and that's nearly 200 years afterwards.
 
China may not have the so called glitter and glamour of a Western Democracy but it has continued to open up and made unprecedented progress while moving forward. The China of 60 years, 30 years ago was vastly different than it is now, and 30 years, 60 years from now it will be vastly different still. It is certain that the evangelical and proselytizing posturing from the West, stemming from whatever motivations will continue on but China needs to be steadfast in her transformation without unnecessary haste.


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## casual

china needs to run shows to educate it's people that religion is all nonsense.

people should be proud to be atheists.

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## khurasaan1

Another foolish propoganda by the Evil Westernerz....


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## LaBong

chops3d said:


> and the most childish post i have come across..
> 
> do you seriously think you are one smart arse in this entire universe, and all others who believe are dumbs??


 
I believe those who think non-religious folks are akin to dogs need to be locked up for greater good.


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## gpit

SinoSoldier said:


> ...
> 
> Ten thousand Chinese become Christians each day,...


 
LOL!

Aren't so many anti-China fanatics accusing China "godless"? 

Apparently, it is those fanatics who are truly godless, regardless whatever god(s) they claim they believe...


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## gpit

Nomenclature said:


> Christianity is the single most unpleasant religion in China. No one else is bent on converting others except Christians. ...


 
Not sure what you meant.

The reality is that many religions adopt the procedure of conversion. Judaism, Christianity, Muslim,... all do that. Religious conversion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In fact, in history Buddhism also adopted conversion.

Conversion can be peaceful and forceful. 

According to S.P. Huntington, missionary by mono-theism causes more conflict than otherwise. He concluded that is partly why the conflict between Christianity and Muslim is the most severe one.


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## casual

Abir said:


> I believe those who think non-religious folks are akin to dogs need to be locked up for greater good.


 
locked up, sprayed and neutered.


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## gpit

below_freezing said:


> I've seen no evidence of this increase though. I seriously think this news is BS.


 
You remind me of seeing people say that some 16% people of the world are homosexual. Somebody even claims that people are born homosexual. 

If you study the claimers, youll find they are homo themselves.


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## AUz

China will become Christian as Europe will become Muslim 

I don't hate Christians but damn ! I fucki*g hate those missionaries that will knock on your door,criticize your religion (whatever it is) and will preach to you "Jesus is lord-the saviour"..and I am like * FUCKKKK OFFFFF !!!!!!*


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## kamakazi attack

I live around in a grad complex. lots of chinese, saudis, indians, basically everybody from all over the world here to pay large money to get an education from canada.

what i've seen over the years...

most new christian converts are chinese

chinese will celebrate christmass 

in north america we celebrate a festival call halloween...kids and some grown up dress up as monsters, superheroes, whatever fit their fancy and go knocking on neighborhoods doors for candies.

anyways all the muslims kids stay home, every chinese kids is out celebrating the "westerns" hollidays...funny thing is that all chinese parents take thier kids go out to get candies...after giving out candies I take my kids out so their can get their treats and not one chinese house give out candies... hahahhaha cheap as f ^&&. every year my lady and I joke that we might find one chinese household giving out candies. 

even with hollidays like christmass, their always events and festival going on and chinese students and their family will attend while almost everybody else from other parts of the world stay away


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## casual

kamakazi attack said:


> I live around in a grad complex. lots of chinese, saudis, indians, basically everybody from all over the world here to pay large money to get an education from canada.
> 
> what i've seen over the years...
> 
> most new christian converts are chinese
> 
> chinese will celebrate christmass
> 
> in north america we celebrate a festival call halloween...kids and some grown up dress up as monsters, superheroes, whatever fit their fancy and go knocking on neighborhoods doors for candies.
> 
> anyways all the muslims kids stay home, every chinese kids is out celebrating the "westerns" hollidays...funny thing is that all chinese parents take thier kids go out to get candies...after giving out candies I take my kids out so their can get their treats and not one chinese house give out candies... hahahhaha cheap as f ^&&. every year my lady and I joke that we might find one chinese household giving out candies.
> 
> even with hollidays like christmass, their always events and festival going on and chinese students and their family will attend while almost everybody else from other parts of the world stay away


 
celebrating x-mas and halloween is not the same as being christian bro.

and i guess those dumbass fobs convert because:
1. they need the support of some social group.
2. they don't know anything about theology and haven't read the piece of crap that is the bible.

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## anonymous123

kamakazi attack said:


> I live around in a grad complex. lots of chinese, saudis, indians, basically everybody from all over the world here to pay large money to get an education from canada.
> 
> what i've seen over the years...
> 
> most new christian converts are chinese
> 
> chinese will celebrate christmass
> 
> in north america we celebrate a festival call halloween...kids and some grown up dress up as monsters, superheroes, whatever fit their fancy and go knocking on neighborhoods doors for candies.
> 
> anyways all the muslims kids stay home, every chinese kids is out celebrating the "westerns" hollidays...funny thing is that all chinese parents take thier kids go out to get candies...after giving out candies I take my kids out so their can get their treats and not one chinese house give out candies... hahahhaha cheap as f ^&&. every year my lady and I joke that we might find one chinese household giving out candies.
> 
> even with hollidays like christmass, their always events and festival going on and chinese students and their family will attend while almost everybody else from other parts of the world stay away


 
stereotype much???? I'm not even Cristian and i remember my brother gave away a whole block of Cadbury chocolate because we are caught by surprise by some kid .........some1 actually celebrate halloween here in Australia. Luckily that was the only incident. Note to self....stock up candies during Halloween season

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## kamakazi attack

i've met some very well- educated well- connected people who have converted. 

just face the fact, some chinese are hungry for GOD.


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## ephone

If England could cut its link with the catholics, China indeed can do that as well. That pope had reached too far into England's internal matter and got his axx kicked. 

China should do that same to let the old fool to learn the lesson all over again.



fateh71 said:


> How about China getting their hands off Church's matters? How is religion state's matter?
> 
> I agree pope should not interfere, but I also do not support China's policies.


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## Gold1010

except the pope has no power in foreign countries anymore.

The Popes power was the roman way of keeping an empire.


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## Gold1010

anonymous123 said:


> stereotype much???? I'm not even Cristian and i remember my brother gave away a whole block of Cadbury chocolate because we are caught by surprise by some kid .........some1 actually celebrate halloween here in Australia. Luckily that was the only incident. Note to self....stock up candies during Halloween season


 
Christmas isnt so much a religious holiday anymore

Note to self and anonymous123:stock up on eggs


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## ephone

They can read their bibles and pray to GOD. However, they should not even think about anything that challenges the government. Any groups that have link with foreign governments or christian organizations even by names should take their hands off anything that even remotely look like challenging government. Otherwise, you will only have them to have their freedom taken away. 

Historically, christianity indeed has done far more damage to China and caused millions of Chinese killed in the past 160 years. Several examples: two opium wars, taiping rebellion, boxer rebellion and etc.

So you cannot say China government has no ground to be suspicious related to christianity. 



Thomas said:


> Not sure what radical Christians today you are talking about that might rise up.
> 
> Maybe you are talking about these Christians?

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## Gold1010

ephone said:


> They can read their bibles and pray to GOD. However, they should not even think about anything that challenges the government. Any groups that have link with foreign governments or christian organizations even by names should take their hands off anything that even remotely look like challenging government. Otherwise, you will only have them to have their freedom taken away.
> 
> Historically, christianity indeed has done far more damage to China and caused millions of Chinese killed in the past 160 years. Several examples: two opium wars, taiping rebellion, boxer rebellion and etc.
> 
> So you cannot say China government has no ground to be suspicious related to christianity.


 
100% agree religion should stay out of your goverment as for the wars i think christians have grown up since those days hopefully in China aswell.


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## ephone

That old guy indeed has quite some power. Remember how communist government in poland got overturned and then such effect domino-ed to all other eastern European countries???

Even old history, remember how the past old fool incited his followers to have crusades/robbed innocent people in mid-east and caused millions of death???



Aussie4ever said:


> except the pope has no power in foreign countries anymore.
> 
> The Popes power was the roman way of keeping an empire.


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## ephone

Aussie4ever said:


> 100% agree religion should stay out of your goverment as for the wars i think christians have grown up since those days hopefully in China aswell.


 
Well, China government will not tolerate any religion that has any intention, at now or in remote future, to challenge its power. Indeed, it has the power to put down any attempt to do so. In addition, China will not care about whatever everybody else think. It will simply to tell those foreign-want-to-be interventionists to fxxk off. 

Most important, common people will support government on this matter. We have seen far more damages by religion-incited rebellions/unrest in the past.

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## Burnz

kamakazi attack said:


> I live around in a grad complex. lots of chinese, saudis, indians, basically everybody from all over the world here to pay large money to get an education from canada.
> 
> what i've seen over the years...
> 
> most new christian converts are chinese
> 
> chinese will celebrate christmass
> 
> in north america we celebrate a festival call halloween...kids and some grown up dress up as monsters, superheroes, whatever fit their fancy and go knocking on neighborhoods doors for candies.
> 
> anyways all the muslims kids stay home, every chinese kids is out celebrating the "westerns" hollidays...funny thing is that all chinese parents take thier kids go out to get candies...after giving out candies I take my kids out so their can get their treats and not one chinese house give out candies... hahahhaha cheap as f ^&&. every year my lady and I joke that we might find one chinese household giving out candies.
> 
> even with hollidays like christmass, their always events and festival going on and chinese students and their family will attend while almost everybody else from other parts of the world stay away


 
So Most Fanatical Neo-Converts are Chinese?

I thought they were Indians.


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## below_freezing

Burnz said:


> So Most Fanatical Neo-Converts are Chinese?
> 
> I thought they were Indians.


 
No they're definitely Chinese. See, we Chinese people have a bad habit. We like taking things to the extreme. Not as bad as Koreans but pretty bad. The Cultural Revolution was China's most democratic time in history. It turned out bad. Deng went in the opposite direction just as hard. The end result was our technology got trashed and replaced by Western imports which had their supply cut off in a few years. Despite Jiang being the 3rd most corrupt politician in history (after Zardari and Sonia Gandhi) at least he wasn't an extremist.


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## below_freezing

casual said:


> celebrating x-mas and halloween is not the same as being christian bro.
> 
> and i guess those dumbass fobs convert because:
> 1. they need the support of some social group.
> 2. they don't know anything about theology and haven't read the piece of crap that is the bible.


 
there are CSSAs (Chinese Scholars and Students Association) on every campus in the world outside of China and Singapore. My dad participated in one during his postdoc in US. He played basketball with them but was no match for 25 year olds at age 40.

However, he did notice that christian missionaries take specific effort to target CSSA groups. They would hand out free bibles along with food and talk about how god is all powerful, loves us all, and wants us to worship him.

Being trained as an engineer, he asked the christian missionaries, "if god is so powerful, why does he care if we worship him?" and they could say nothing.


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## T-Rex

So, what will happen if China becomes the largest Christian state? I think the possibility of that happening is quite real. This is how South Korea became Christian.


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## RayBan

Unbeliever said:


> Not necessarily dumb, just indoctrinated from childhood and ignorant towards more logical alternative explanations for the world around them.
> 
> That's why people once thought Zeus wrath was directly responsible for every lightning bolt in the sky, because they were not aware of the naturalistic explanation yet.
> 
> Current religions have just been shaped (by men) over thousands of years to seem more compelling (be it through threats of punishment, offer of rewards or tricks of language), but they still lack any supporting evidence or inherent rationality,
> just like Zeus and the thousands of other gods many people once believed in that have now become mythology..


 
God and logic don't come in single sentence. if you speak about God then there's no logic in it and if you speak about logic then there's no God in it. Its just a huge superstition.

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## Hindustani

How do the umm.. non religious Chinese feel about this?


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## below_freezing

Hindustani said:


> How do the umm.. non religious Chinese feel about this?


 
I think we made our views clear.


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## justanobserver

Mech said:


> What am i supposed to feel? Besides sympathy.
> Like i said, i believe what i believe because i believe it to be the truth. Others may have different views. How is that you associate christanity with europe or the americas? If you do a bit of research, Christianity came to the shores of Malabar from a direct disciple of Jesus Christ himself. A disciple called "Thomas" landed in kerala and established the first church in India. Long before even the Europeans got the wind of it. In fact, Christianity was established in India before the British or the Portuguese.
> 
> Not to mention, Christianity also came to India as a result of Syrian migration long before the British ever set foot here.





> There is no swindle and there is no falsification, thomas did land in malabar. I suggest you actually read the historical accounts rather than conspiracy theories. This is no different to how Pakistanis say indus civilization is wholly Pakistani .





The "St Thomas coming to Kerala" theory has been denied by the Pope




> Thomas's visit under doubt
> Ananthakrishnan G, TNN, Dec 26, 2006, 01.14am IST
> 
> NEW DELHI: His reluctance to believe what fellow disciples said about Jesus Christ's resurrection earned him the name Doubting Thomas. Centuries later, St Thomas &#8212; believed to be the man who brought Christianity to India &#8212; finds himself in the shadow of 'doubt' with none other than the Pope contradicting his evangelical trek in the country, only to modify it a few days later. But far from dousing the fire, the Pope has rekindled a debate and given critics an issue on the platter.
> *
> Pope Benedict XVI made the statement at the Vatican on September 27. Addressing the faithful during the Wednesday catechises, he recalled that St Thomas first evangelised Syria and Persia, and went on to western India from where Christianity reached Southern India. The import of the statement was that St Thomas never travelled to south India, but rather evangelised the western front, mostly comprising today's Pakistan*.



Thomas's visit under doubt - Times Of India


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## Mech

justanobserver said:


> The "St Thomas coming to Kerala" theory has been denied by the Pope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas's visit under doubt - Times Of India


 
And since when is the pope an authority for christians worldwide?! Pope is head of the catholic church and nothing more. He is free to pass comments as he likes, it still wouldnt make it any more true.

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## ephone

Mech said:


> And since when is the pope an authority for christians worldwide?! Pope is head of the catholic church and nothing more. He is free to pass comments as he likes, it still wouldnt make it any more true.


 
He used to represent all of them but not now. However, since he is the highest figures in catholics and most visible person in religions today, he can wield pretty much damage still.

So China government indeed has no interest to let him interfere our internal affairs. BTW, we are really not interested in establishing any relationship with Vatican unless he can promise to have his hands off China internal matters.

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## Mech

ephone said:


> He used to represent all of them but not now. However, since he is the highest figures in catholics and most visible person in religions today, he can wield pretty much damage still.
> 
> So China government indeed has no interest to let him interfere our internal affairs. BTW, we are really not interested in establishing any relationship with Vatican unless he can promise to have his hands off China internal matters.



Whatever he represented , it was not with our consent. We were never a part of the catholic church. We are not protestants who broke off from catholicism. We are a wholly different entity.

Regards


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## shuntmaster

There are more Christians in China than in Italy.
It ranks 7th in terms of world chirstian population ranking with 67million Christians which is 5% of chinas population.


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## TEXAS BATTLESTAR

shuntmaster said:


> There are more Christians in China than in Italy.
> It ranks 7th in terms of world chirstian population ranking with 67million Christians which is 5% of chinas population.


 
True for now, but I hope that number decreases over the years. China and India has a large and rich history and culture therefore dose not need to be minuscule by these popular western mythology culture.

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## Mech

TEXAS BATTLESTAR said:


> True for now, but I hope that number decreases over the years. China and India has a large and rich history and culture therefore dose not need to be minuscule by these popular western mythology culture.


 
Since when is christianity 'western'? It originated in the middle east....*sigh*

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## below_freezing

TEXAS BATTLESTAR said:


> True for now, but I hope that number decreases over the years. China and India has a large and rich history and culture therefore dose not need to be minuscule by these popular western mythology culture.


 
agreed, we have thousands of years of native religions like Confucianism, Buddhism and Hinduism as well as official imported religions like Islam. The current brand of Christianity being promoted is a mind enslavement tool of the West.

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## Gold1010

Mech said:


> Since when is christianity 'western'? It originated in the middle east....*sigh*


 
Is there even any western involvement of the west on chinese christians lol.

Prejudice , accuse the west of everything.(not u)


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## ephone

Whatever religion it may be, China government will not tolerate its growth into something that can potentially challenge the government.


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## gpit

kamakazi attack said:


> ...funny thing is that all chinese parents take thier kids go out to get candies...after giving out candies I take my kids out so their can get their treats and not one chinese house give out candies... hahahhaha cheap as f ^&&. every year my lady and I joke that we might find one chinese household giving out candies.
> 
> ...


 
The fake Japaness that failed to pass Japaness reading test finds yet another chance to attack the Chinese. 

Just to open your fool's eyes blinded with hatred: many Chinese all around my area gave FRESH candies, unlike you that may give out 10 years old ones. The are concerns from some Christians that Halloween is not Christian prevents some from participating in the game...


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## jdme

Mech said:


> Since when is christianity 'western'? It originated in the middle east....*sigh*


 
You need to step outside of India (actually your state if I resume it to be Kerela). Do you celebrate Christmas? You know the thing that celebrates the birth of Christ How about the name Jesus Christ What bible do you read by the way? Well good thing you are associated with to Syrian church. That isn't true for most Christians.


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## Mech

jdme said:


> You need to step outside of India (actually your states if I resume it to be Kerela). Do you celebrate Christmas? You know the thing that celebrates the birth of Christ How about the name Jesus Christ What bible do you read by the way? Well good thing you are associated with to Syrian church. That isn't true for most Christians.


 
I have little time and even less respect for conspiracy theorists. What i said was 'christianity' did not originate in the west.


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## jdme

Mech said:


> I have little time and even less respect for conspiracy theorists. What i said was 'christianity' did not originate in the west.


 
Don't sound like a petulant child. Could you bother to define what "Christianity" is? The book, the culture, the beliefs, ......?


How do Kerelaite Christians get married? Do they walk the Aisle? Bride in white dress? Flowers? Bridesmaid? ...I remember watching a video of Christian marriage in Kerela (I think). Bride and groom didn't kiss at the end. Still I doubt marriage ceremony had it's origin in India or even Asia.


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## Burnz

Map of Abrahamic World.

China will soon become pink.


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## TEXAS BATTLESTAR

Mech said:


> Since when is christianity 'western'? It originated in the middle east....*sigh*


 
Will there ever be a Chinese Pope? True Christianity maybe originated in the East but it is the Anglo-Saxons mostly use it to for geopolitical gains and subjugated ourselves to think Asians are inferior to the west...(sigh) you need to get out more and see world for what it is.

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## TEXAS BATTLESTAR

Burnz said:


> Map of Abrahamic World.
> 
> China will soon become pink.


 
Oh heck no! Not even India and Vietnam! With our combine population we can put Christianity to rest for good in one generation by interbreeding western women without converting and they know it!


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## Thomas

TEXAS BATTLESTAR said:


> Will there ever be a Chinese Pope? True Christianity maybe originated in the East but it is the Anglo-Saxons mostly use it to for geopolitical gains and subjugated ourselves to think Asians are inferior to the west...(sigh) you need to get out more and see world for what it is.


 
The Chinese Catholics (Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association) have no connection with the Vatican. Since the Communist party decided it want to control the churches leadership.


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## hamtaro

TEXAS BATTLESTAR said:


> Oh heck no! Not even India and Vietnam! With our combine population we can put Christianity to rest for good in one generation by interbreeding western women without converting and they know it!


 
Yes vietnamese are well known ladykillers


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## shuntmaster

TEXAS BATTLESTAR said:


> *Will there ever be a Chinese Pope? * True Christianity maybe originated in the East but it is the Anglo-Saxons mostly use it to for geopolitical gains and subjugated ourselves to think Asians are inferior to the west...(sigh) you need to get out more and see world for what it is.


 That is a distinct possibility. Few generations back no one thought a non-Italian can become a pope. Then came the polish John Paul-II who became one of the most popular catholic popes. After the death of John Paul, during the selection of the new pope, there was a strong possibility of a non-European pope, especially from Africa or Latin America. Who knows, may be next time there is a possibility for an Asian pope, even Chinese.
There is misconception that all Christianity are Catholics and pope is their undisputed leader. Its true that majority of Christians are Catholics, but there is significant proportion of Christians who are non-Catholics and protestants. Majority of Chinese Christians are protestants and they are the ones who are growing in numbers. The protestant churches in China are very vibrant and active and attracting a lot of Chinese to the faith. The Catholic church is also quite significant in China. There are 2 types of Catholics in China, one going to the state controlled churches and other mostly underground and owing alligence to Vatican. In the last few years the 2 churches are coming together. The bishop of Beijing is recognised both by Chinese government as well as by Vatican. The two major irritants betwee Beijing and Vatican are Vatican's recognition of Taiwan and Beijing's attempts at unnecessary interference in Church activities.
There is a rumor (unsubstantiated) that Deng Xiaoping wanted to make Christianity the state religion.


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## shuntmaster

Thomas said:


> The Chinese Catholics (Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association) have no connection with the Vatican. Since the Communist party decided it want to control the churches leadership.


 
Not exactly true. The Bishop of Beijing is recognised both by China and Vatican.
Both the Patriotic church and catholic churches are coming together. Most of the underground churches are coming into the open and they are not being oppressed.


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## below_freezing

Protestant Christianity is the most dangerous of all dangerous Christian cults due to its ties with extremist elements in the US. They are directly sponsored by the Wall Street regime as a means of destabilizing other countries.

We know Deng was a hardcore US traitor so if he wanted that, it wouldn't surprise me.

GDP of Shanghai in 1979: 1000 USD
GDP of Taiwan in 1979: 1100 USD
GDP of Shanghai in 1989: 1100 USD
GDP of Taiwan in 1989: 8000 USD

Traitor: Deng Xiaoping


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## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> Protestant Christianity is the most dangerous of all dangerous Christian cults due to its ties with extremist elements in the US. They are directly sponsored by the Wall Street regime as a means of destabilizing other countries.
> 
> We know Deng was a hardcore US traitor so if he wanted that, it wouldn't surprise me.
> 
> GDP of Shanghai in 1979: 1000 USD
> GDP of Taiwan in 1979: 1100 USD
> GDP of Shanghai in 1989: 1100 USD
> GDP of Taiwan in 1989: 8000 USD
> 
> Traitor: Deng Xiaoping


 
The mainstream of Protestantism in US is Calvinism, this gave them the inspiration how the White Anglo-Saxon Protestants should rule the World.

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## shuntmaster

below_freezing said:


> Protestant Christianity is the most *dangerous* of all dangerous Christian cults due to its ties with extremist elements in the US. They are directly sponsored by the Wall Street regime as a means of destabilizing other countries.
> 
> We know Deng was a hardcore US traitor so if he wanted that, it wouldn't surprise me.
> 
> GDP of Shanghai in 1979: 1000 USD
> GDP of Taiwan in 1979: 1100 USD
> GDP of Shanghai in 1989: 1100 USD
> GDP of Taiwan in 1989: 8000 USD
> 
> Traitor: Deng Xiaoping


 
Dangerous in what respect??
Unlike Catholic church, protestant churches don't have hierarchy i.e. there is no one central authority in protestant church. Each church is autonomous and don't take orders from outside. The Chinese protestant churches have Chinese pastors and congregations.
About Deng Xiaoping, whether he was a traitor or a patriot, its an internal Chinese matter. Did he do better for China than Mao is for the Chinese to decide. From my personal experience, most Chinese attribute the present Chinas development to Deng and detest Mao.


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## Thomas

shuntmaster said:


> Not exactly true. The Bishop of Beijing is recognised both by China and Vatican.
> Both the Patriotic church and catholic churches are coming together. Most of the underground churches are coming into the open and they are not being oppressed.



Vatican&#8217;s China commission says bishop's ordination was illegitimate :: Catholic News Agency (CNA)
*"At present, the Chinese government only allows the state-controlled &#8220;Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association&#8221; and a similarly run bishops&#8217; conference to operate within the country. Neither organization acknowledges the authority of the Pope and they in turn are not recognized by the Church."* 



Police Seriously Injured Two Christian Leaders in Shaanxi and Henan with Electric Baton and Block Door with Bricks

Radio Free Asia - April 12, 2011
Translated by China Aid Association
CHINAaid: Police Seriously Injured Two Christian Leaders in Shaanxi and Henan with Electric Baton and Block Door with Bricks





Photo: Pastor Wang Zhanhu was hit by a police baton and went into a coma. (Photograph provided by Wang's family and evidence collected by reporter Qiao Long.





Two house church leaders in Huaxian, Shaanxi Province and Fanxian, Henan Province were harassed by police. When the former attempted to prevent the police from disturbing an assembly, the police hit him with an electric baton and the brother went into a coma on the spot. He is currently still under treatment in the hospital. And police blocked up the entrance to the latter&#8217;s home with bricks again, so he and his family could not enter or exit their home. 

After an internet campaign to provoke a "Jasmine Revolution" peaceful protest in China, the jittery authority had heightened the pressure they exerted upon house churches. In an interview with Radio Free Asia on Tuesday, the president of the Chinese House Church Alliance, Pastor Zhang Ming, told us that a leader from Cross Church in Huaxian of Shaanxi Province was beaten up by the police last week:

Wang Zhanhu from Huaxian, Shaanxi Province was beaten up. The police hit Brother Wang to the ground and he is still lying in the hospital. He was simply being a good Christian, singing praise hymns and preaching the gospel, but the Bureau of Religious Affairs and the Public Security Bureau sent the police to hit his hands and head with an electric baton. Now that they have injured him so badly, they turn a blind eye to what happened to him. Because of what they did, Brother Wang is still in the hospital.

Radio Free Asia directly contacted Pastor Wang Zhanhu, and asked him what exactly happened when he was beaten up. He said:

On April 7, some of us who believe in Jesus were singing songs to praise our God Almighty. Then three plainclothes police officers came to us and grasped a sister's hand&#8212;this sister goes to our church&#8212;and snatched her microphone away. So I walked up to them and said, "How can you rob people's belongings like this?" Upon my words, these three police officers asked me for my Identification Card. I told them, "I didn't break any law by walking on the street." One police officer from the National Security Brigade started hitting my shoulders with his hand. Suddenly some other police officer hit my chest with his fist. And it was followed by a shock from a electric baton and I fell to the ground immediately and went into a coma.

Up till this moment, Wang is still under treatment in a local hospital. When he received the phone interview from Radio Free Asia, he just finished a ultrasonic inspection. He recalled that the police hid the electric baton in his sleeve and suddenly hit him with it. He said:

The electric baton was hidden in that police officer's sleeve. This is what I recall. I held my cellphone, wanting to dial 110 to call the police for what they did to me. (This was after they started beating me and before I lost my consciousness. Then they took my cellphone from me.) I asked them twice to give my cellphone back to me, but they wouldn't do it. A passerby saw that I was seriously beaten up and called 110 to have the emergency ambulance take me to the hospital. (They kept beating me up) and the police saw that I looked like I was dead so they escaped from the crime scene. 

Wang said that the police had previously continuously raided his home:

From 2005 to 2008, the police presence forced me to travel from home. They continuously raided my home and threatened me. In 2005, I was detained for 15 days and upon my release the police asked me for a deposit of 3,000 RMB. That police officer told me, "if you don&#8217;t commit any criminal activity in one year, we can return the deposit to you."

However, the deposit was never returned.

House churches in Henan Province also experienced recent crackdowns from the authorities. Pastor Zhang said:

Senior Pastor Zhang Tielin from Fanxian of Henan Province is a leader of the church and is in charge of the sacrifice altar. The local police and government had persecuted him. Half a year ago, the government had his neighbors block his entrance door with bricks so that nobody could enter or exit his home. 

Pastor Zhang told us that Brother Zhang Tielin paid multiple trips to Beijing to petition. After each petition, the authorities had people tear down the brick walls in front of his door. But just few days ago, his door was blocked by bricks again. Pastor Zhang said:

Brother Zhang went to Beijing to petition for human rights. After the police arrested him, Beijing ordered Henan Province to tear down the brick wall in front of his door. However a few days ago at a meeting, he told us when he returned home in Henan, he saw that the local government and police had his neighbors to block his door with bricks again.

On Sunday, one of Beijing's biggest Christian house churches, Beijing Shouwang Church, had an outdoor assembly but was dissipated by the police. One hundred brethren were interrogated by the police. Some believers said they were just worshiping God in the open air, and their gathering had nothing to do with "Jasmine Revolution." Later, another believer published an open letter online to appeal Christians from all over the world to pray for and watch Shouwang Church and pay attention to freedom to worship in China.

Interviews and report by Qiao Long, reporter for Radio Free Asia


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## anonymous123

below_freezing said:


> Protestant Christianity is the most dangerous of all dangerous Christian cults due to its ties with extremist elements in the US. They are directly sponsored by the Wall Street regime as a means of destabilizing other countries.
> 
> We know Deng was a hardcore US traitor so if he wanted that, it wouldn't surprise me.
> 
> GDP of Shanghai in 1979: 1000 USD
> GDP of Taiwan in 1979: 1100 USD
> GDP of Shanghai in 1989: 1100 USD
> GDP of Taiwan in 1989: 8000 USD
> 
> Traitor: Deng Xiaoping


 
wow........just wow............ this is what he get for opening up China.


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## shuntmaster

anonymous123 said:


> wow........just wow............ this is what he get for opening up China.


 
They put Mao's pic in their currency notes, the same Mao who was responsible of deaths of millions of Chinese and keeping the country poor. 
And Deng is the traitor..... We live in a topsy turvy world...


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## cross1993

Thomas said:


> The Chinese Catholics (Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association) have no connection with the Vatican. Since the Communist party decided it want to control the churches leadership.


 
Do you mean Chinese people should be controlled by the Western?


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## Thomas

cross1993 said:


> Do you mean Chinese people should be controlled by the Western?



other way around the communist party wants control of the church.


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## cross1993

Thomas said:


> other way around the communist party wants control of the church.


 
 CPC is the Chinese Government, not the American government. Only the Chinese people have the right to evaluate the Chinese government, not American. Whether you like CPC, You are not qualified to make decisions for the Chinese people.

Satisfaction with Country's Direction(Pew Research Center):
Database | Pew Global Attitudes Project
Pew Research Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1st, China, 87%
2nd, Brazil, 50%

*The Chinese government has the right to manage the Chinese people, Vatican has no right, West has no right.*


1# Chinese people believe that, Prosperous life important than a single vote.
2# Ordinary Chinese people can become president, but not through the media to get the seat. You have to start from the most junior civil servants, You must through capacity and effort been promoted again and again, So he is definitely not a fool who can be president. 
So USA had some good president, for example: Clinton, Bush(old)...and USA also had some bad president, for example(only my opinion): Bush(young), Obama...
3# Wall Street can control USA gov through the media.
For example, family planning, state-owned enterprises reform, etc... these policies all can not implemented in the USA. Because selfish media will destroy it all, and USA President also did not dare to do it. But China can do it.
4# Does Hu Jintao have term limits ? Yes, 10 Years.
Does China's rights by one person to master it? No, nine people rule the country together. Hu Jintao's State Rights a lot less than Obama.


Hu Jintao, He used to be a dam workers, now he is the president of China:

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## below_freezing

shuntmaster said:


> They put Mao's pic in their currency notes, the same Mao who was responsible of deaths of millions of Chinese and keeping the country poor.
> And Deng is the traitor..... We live in a topsy turvy world...


 


anonymous123 said:


> wow........just wow............ this is what he get for opening up China.


 
Mao was ignorant, and didn't know his own ignorance and thought he was an expert, so of course, severe mistakes were made. Deng was actively destroying our economy. While overall GDP remained low, Shanghai and Taiwan are comparable, all the way up to 1979. However, afterwards, under Deng's suicidal devaluation regime and suicidal import regime, our indigenous industry was almost totally destroyed.

Why was there Tiananmen Square? Why did it not happen in 1999, or 1969, or 1979, but in 1989? Because Deng's policies were so bad, people revolted. It was a product of his time, and it will never be repeated, but for that to happen, we should understand and objectively view Deng.

Once Deng was removed, even an ignorant and corrupt politician like Jiang could do things well. China did not begin to actually develop until 1992. In 1980's, we remained the exact same as India. Note how NO ONE in the West called Deng a dictator at the time, but some now are calling Hu, a dictator, despite Hu having far less power than Deng ever did. That should give you an idea of his actual loyalties.

BTW, Hua Guofeng opened up China, not Deng. Pro Deng propaganda is everywhere though so not many know that.

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## ChineseTiger1986

There are a lot of controversial about Deng, some said he deliberately destroyed our military industry, some said he scraped a lot of projects because China was too poor back then.

But BF got the point, even with the ignorance of Mao's leadership, China's military progress was so quick during 1960-1970s, suddenly everything slow down when Deng stepped down into power.

While Deng letting the military making money themselves by smuggling, this act was definitely unforgivable.

Yeah, Deng was the one who destroyed our military industry. Otherwise, we would already have our indigenous 5th gen jet engine long time ago.

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## ChineseTiger1986

But the only good thing Deng did was to crack down the CIA backed insurgency in 1989.

Deng was like Gaddafi, both trying to please the West, yet the West still wants to backstab them.

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## cross1993

That is only the views of the left-wing CPC, I know you do not like Deng Xiaoping.
But right-wing CPC are still the majority, We like Deng Xiaoping, do not like Mao Zedong.

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## Chinese-Dragon

cross1993 said:


> That is only the views of the left-wing CPC, I know you do not like Deng Xiaoping.
> But right-wing CPC are still the majority, We like Deng Xiaoping, do not like Mao Zedong.


 
I like Deng Xiaoping a lot. 

But then I am from Hong Kong, so I could be biased.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I like Deng Xiaoping a lot.
> 
> But then I am from Hong Kong, so I could be biased.


 
As many military enthusiasts, Deng has killed a lot of dream. 

Even Jiang has organized the military industry better than Deng did.

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## below_freezing

cross1993 said:


> That is only the views of the left-wing CPC, I know you do not like Deng Xiaoping.
> But right-wing CPC are still the majority, We like Deng Xiaoping, do not like Mao Zedong.


 
I respect your views. I like Hu, who is right wing, but not Deng. I also hate Xi Jinping.

Opinions are mixed. We all can have different opinions.

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## desiman

below_freezing said:


> I've seen no evidence of this increase though. I seriously think this news is BS.


 
so you saying that you are omnipresent in every region of China, asking each and every person about their religion, lol ill ask each Christan in China to come visit you directly.


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## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> I respect your views. I like Hu, who is right wing, but not Deng. I also hate Xi Jinping.
> 
> Opinions are mixed. We all can have different opinions.


 
Even Li Keqiang is a very nice guy, but he is not interested to become the President. He wants to take the role as the Premier.

Xi Jinping may be a mediocre guy, but he will be more moderate than Bo Xilai.

Bo Xilai is indeed very competent, but his style is too mafia. And his son is damn corrupt, and just see how about his life in England.

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## Mike2011

Christian population has to be controlled. Same issue in India also. Lot of conversion happening by luring poor tribal people.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Mike2011 said:


> Christian population has to be controlled. Same issue in India also. Lot of conversion happening by luring poor tribal people.


 
They caused the religious revolution of the peasants in China.

In result, there were more than 20 million of casualty.

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## no_name

Stripping the Gurus&#151;Download PDF

I'm still reading this book, it is not specifically about any religion but does point out the typical traits of people who use religions for their own selfish reasons.

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## shuntmaster

Mike2011 said:


> *Christian population has to be controlled*. Same issue in India also. Lot of conversion happening by luring poor tribal people.


 
And how do you propose to do it?
Religion is a persons personal choice and human right. Why should anyone interfere in what one wants to believe in?
If someone wants to get out of the oppressive caste system in Hinduism, even by conversion to another religion, why do you want to bind him/her to the oppressive system? So that you can continue to keep oppressing & exploiting him with impunity?


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## Mike2011

shuntmaster said:


> And how do you propose to do it?
> Religion is a persons personal choice and human right. Why should anyone interfere in what one wants to believe in?
> If someone wants to get out of the oppressive caste system in Hinduism, even by conversion to another religion, why do you want to bind him/her to the oppressive system? So that you can continue to keep oppressing & exploiting him with impunity?


 
Well conversion though religious enlightenment is fine. Luring poor and unfortunate people to change the religion is not good idea. It is same like conversion done by muslims with sword.


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## below_freezing

Mike2011 said:


> Well conversion though religious enlightenment is fine. Luring poor and unfortunate people to change the religion is not good idea. It is same like conversion done by muslims with sword.



Buddhism came to China in a book carried by a monk.

Islam came to China on a mule with gold.

Jesus Christ flew into China on an artillery shell.

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## anonymous123

below_freezing said:


> Mao was ignorant, and didn't know his own ignorance and thought he was an expert, so of course, severe mistakes were made. Deng was actively destroying our economy. While overall GDP remained low, Shanghai and Taiwan are comparable, all the way up to 1979. However, afterwards, under Deng's suicidal devaluation regime and suicidal import regime, our indigenous industry was almost totally destroyed.
> 
> Why was there Tiananmen Square? Why did it not happen in 1999, or 1969, or 1979, but in 1989? Because Deng's policies were so bad, people revolted. It was a product of his time, and it will never be repeated, but for that to happen, we should understand and objectively view Deng.
> 
> Once Deng was removed, even an ignorant and corrupt politician like Jiang could do things well. China did not begin to actually develop until 1992. In 1980's, we remained the exact same as India. Note how NO ONE in the West called Deng a dictator at the time, but some now are calling Hu, a dictator, despite Hu having far less power than Deng ever did. That should give you an idea of his actual loyalties.
> 
> BTW, Hua Guofeng opened up China, not Deng. Pro Deng propaganda is everywhere though so not many know that.


 
How can you label Deng a traitor just from those alone??? Don;t you think it's ironic that a person who is responsible for millions of death being worshiped like god while this guy who actually lay the basic foundation for China to move forward suddenly become a traitor by your definition. 
As for Tiananmen square........those students are just being unreasonable and naive, you can't expect eveything to be perfect during transition, they made their point but refused to move on, what do they expect?? let the self proclaimed 20+ year old leader lead the country into oblivion???
As for the west didn't label Deng a dictator, that is totally false it's just that his negative legacy is pale in comparison to Mao. Finally in regard with indigenous industry, do you really believe China can build something ground breaking while the majority of the country basically consist of farmland? This is just my view thou.

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## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> Buddhism came to China in a book carried by a monk.
> 
> Islam came to China on a mule with gold.
> 
> Jesus Christ flew into China on an artillery shell.


 
Take Taiwan for example, Taoism is pro-unification, Buddhism is pro-unification, even Islam is also pro-unification.

Only Christianity is 100% pro-separatism. 

Can we really trust the Christianity?

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## justanobserver

shuntmaster said:


> If someone wants to get out of the oppressive *caste system *in Hinduism, even by conversion to another religion, why do you want to bind him/her to the oppressive system? So that you can continue to keep oppressing & exploiting him with impunity?


 
This is an idiotic argument. 

Tribals and Buddhists (which are the target of the missionaries) are not part of the caste system

Look at this map, now see ratios. In South India it's constant for 100s of years(despite "opressive caste system"). However in North East (which is tribals +Buddhists) it's insane.

*Do you know that the demand of one of the insurgent groups in North East is separate Christian country?*


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## ChineseTiger1986

justanobserver said:


> This is an idiotic argument.
> 
> Tribals and Buddhists (which are the target of the missionaries) are not part of the caste system
> 
> Look at this map, now see ratios. In South India it's constant for 100s of years(despite "opressive caste system"). However in North East (which is tribals +Buddhists) it's insane.
> 
> *Do you know that the demand of one of the insurgent groups in North East is separate Christian country?*


 
Man, i can't believe there is an Indian member here who is Anti-Hinduism.

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## justanobserver

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Man, i can't believe there is an Indian member here who is Anti-Hinduism.


 
I hope you're not referring to me because my post was *against* missionary activity


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## below_freezing

anonymous123 said:


> How can you label Deng a traitor just from those alone??? Don;t you think it's ironic that a person who is responsible for millions of death being worshiped like god while this guy who actually lay the basic foundation for China to move forward suddenly become a traitor by your definition.
> As for Tiananmen square........those students are just being unreasonable and naive, you can't expect eveything to be perfect during transition, they made their point but refused to move on, what do they expect?? let the self proclaimed 20+ year old leader lead the country into oblivion???
> As for the west didn't label Deng a dictator, that is totally false it's just that his negative legacy is pale in comparison to Mao. Finally in regard with indigenous industry, do you really believe China can build something ground breaking while the majority of the country basically consist of farmland? This is just my view thou.


 
Mao has his faults, but its undeniable what his accomplisments were. Besides, our death rates at their highest was still lower than comparable countries of the time. In the 1950's, we were as poor as Africa and India, but death rates were half, all the way until 1959 when they doubled, to the level of India and Africa.

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## ChineseTiger1986

justanobserver said:


> I hope you're not referring to me because my post was *against* missionary activity


 
I mean shuntmaster, it really shocks me that he has claimed the Hindu caste system is oppressive.

Even i just got convinced by some Indian members that the racism in the Hindu caste system is greatly exaggerated.


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## cross1993

below_freezing is a Maoist.


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## ChineseTiger1986

cross1993 said:


> below_freezing is a Maoist.


 
Maoist is far left, and i don't think BF is one of them.


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## below_freezing

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Maoist is far left, and i don't think BF is one of them.


 
I am a left wing rationalist and nationalist.


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## no_name

I regarded Mao as having started off with saving china in mind and having experienced the hardship of ordinary chinese citizens back then. But he later became corrupted through internal power struggle and refusing to admit his own mistakes because of overconfidence and the fact that he has been correct during his early revolutionary days.

Mao was a sound strategist but also a very stubborn person with bad tempers

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## cross1993

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Maoist is far left, and i don't think BF is one of them.



Look at Chongqing. In China, Maoist is stronger than you think.

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## jdme

TEXAS BATTLESTAR said:


> Will there ever be a Chinese Pope? True Christianity maybe originated in the East but it is the Anglo-Saxons mostly use it to for geopolitical gains and subjugated ourselves to think Asians are inferior to the west...(sigh) you need to get out more and see world for what it is.




Anglo-Saxon is not Europe! US is Anglo-Saxon (on paper), not Christianity


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## jdme

shuntmaster said:


> Dangerous in what respect??
> Unlike Catholic church, protestant churches don't have hierarchy i.e. there is no one central authority in protestant church. Each church is autonomous and don't take orders from outside. The Chinese protestant churches have Chinese pastors and congregations.
> About Deng Xiaoping, whether he was a traitor or a patriot, its an internal Chinese matter. Did he do better for China than Mao is for the Chinese to decide. From my personal experience, most Chinese attribute the present Chinas development to Deng and detest Mao.



Ah evangelists! Catholics are saint compared to this lot. US is perfect example of protestant madness and same lot of are blowing billions to bring ""good news" to heathens.

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## jdme

shuntmaster said:


> And how do you propose to do it?
> Religion is a persons personal choice and human right. Why should anyone interfere in what one wants to believe in?
> If someone wants to get out of the oppressive caste system in Hinduism, even by conversion to another religion, why do you want to bind him/her to the oppressive system? So that you can continue to keep oppressing & exploiting him with impunity?


 

Ahem, there is CASTE in Indian Christian society much to everyone's chagrin. On top of that, same "escaped" people ask for reservation given only to "hindoo lower castes"! Something is not right in Vatican Do you think they are exploited no more just because they are called Thomas Periyappa now?


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## jdme

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I mean shuntmaster, it really shocks me that he has claimed the Hindu caste system is oppressive.
> 
> *Even i just got convinced by some Indian members that the racism in the Hindu caste system is greatly exaggerated*.


 
I think you mean castism. They are from same race. And no, it's alive and thriving but then so is racism, neo-Nazism and all the banned stuff. There is progress, something obviously people with certain agenda just ignore. But simple problem with India is that it's too poor, people too uneducated and simply not empowered enough. With growing economy and reduction in poverty, these issues can be successfully addressed. Ofcourse banning discrimination is not same as favoring someone. Inter caste marriage is still a Big no (except perhaps in few big cities) and India has too many "caste" based parties. Now this kind of acceptance perhaps will take forever...


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## shuntmaster

Mike2011 said:


> Well conversion though religious enlightenment is fine.* Luring poor and unfortunate* people to change the religion is not good idea. It is same like conversion done by muslims with sword.


 
You mean poor people cannot get enlightenment? They cannot be choose what is right and wrong for themselves and hence have to continue in the rut they have been since centuries?
What exactly do you mean by 'luring'?


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## justanobserver

shuntmaster said:


> You mean poor people cannot get enlightenment? They cannot be choose what is right and wrong for themselves and hence have to continue in the rut they have been since centuries?
> What exactly do you mean by 'luring'?


 
Who are you to decide "enlightenment" ? Is Buddhism less enlightened?
You probably think the conversions in the North East are voluntary

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## blackops

Man i dont know about china or my fellow indians i like christians they are peacefull people they dont do crime and all and after all i like santa


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## Burnz

Those Bastard Missionaries need to be kicked out. Those Baptist thugs support Secissionist Activities in Manipur in their quest for *Kingdom of Christ*.

BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | 'Church backing Tripura rebels'

After some years, we will hear the same in China, Christians asking for Independence.


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## KS

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I mean shuntmaster, it really shocks me that he has claimed the Hindu caste system is oppressive.
> 
> Even i just got convinced by some Indian members that the racism in the Hindu caste system is greatly exaggerated.


 
Yaara, the Caste system was oppresive in the past. But it has far far mellowed down in the present and currently most people think of their caste only for a sense of brotherhood and identity and culture. 

For example I am proud of my caste, but that doesn't mean I discriminate against other castes. I respect them for what they are. That is how it is now,to a large extent.


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## justanobserver

Karthic Sri said:


> Yaara, the Caste system was oppresive in the past. But it has far far mellowed down in the present and currently most people think of their caste only for a sense of brotherhood and identity and culture.
> 
> For example I am proud of my caste, but that doesn't mean I discriminate against other castes. I respect them for what they are. That is how it is now on a large extent.


 
But the caste system doesn't even come to the picture. People in the North East are mainly Buddhists/Tribals who've never followed caste system


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## Burnz

Karthic Sri said:


> Yaara, the Caste system was oppresive in the past. But it has far far mellowed down in the present and currently most people think of their caste only for a sense of brotherhood and identity and culture.
> 
> For example I am proud of my caste, but that doesn't mean I discriminate against other castes. I respect them for what they are. That is how it is now,to a large extent.


 
Exactly.

Caste is just one of my Identity.

The Evangelists and the Neo-Converts dream of a Christian Indian where the poor people are oppressed under the *Evil* Caste System.


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## jdme

justanobserver said:


> But the caste system doesn't even come to the picture. *People in the North East are mainly Buddhists/Tribals who've never followed caste system*


 
No they aren't. Buddhist? Perhaps small part is tribal.


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## KS

justanobserver said:


> But the caste system doesn't even come to the picture. People in the North East are mainly Buddhists/Tribals who've never followed caste system


 
No yaar I was justly replying specifically to his post about the misconception that the Caste system is still widely prevalent and milions of people are still oppressed.

As far as Conversion is concerned what you said is absolutely true. After converting almost the whole North East population into Christianity *these evangelists have also pervaded the NE insurgent groups to maintain their hold on power*. The NSCM (I-M) for example is by all purposes run by the Church.

Now the region of their focus is Central India and the poor tribals over there. They just advertise even simple anti-malarial vaccines as God's special miracle cure (the traditional tribal shaman's formulations cant compete with these hitech vaccines) and once the disease is cured then that is the opening they need to exploit these people.

These neo-fanatical evangelists,Pentecosts with their aggressive market conversions are giving a bad name to all the Christian communities in India like Catholics,Syrian Christians, Marthomites etc who by themselves are a peaceful community and completely integrated in our culture.

The GoI needs to keep a strict tab over the foreign funding that comes mainly from the West for all sorts of these soul harvesting missions. But guess what the stupid GoI and its damned Vote-bank policy will not allow them to do that. 



jdme said:


> No they aren't. Buddhist? Perhaps small part is tribal.


 
They practiced a mix of Hinduism,Buddhism and ancient animist rituals.

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## justanobserver

jdme said:


> No they aren't. Buddhist? Perhaps small part is tribal.


 
Sikkim and AP are mainly Buddhist


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## jdme

shuntmaster said:


> You mean poor people cannot get enlightenment? They cannot be choose what is right and wrong for themselves and hence have to continue in the rut they have been since centuries?
> What exactly do you mean by 'luring'?


 
They can if they have all the pertinent information. Do they? Nvrmind. All religions sicken me.


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## KS

justanobserver said:


> Sikkim and AP are mainly Buddhist


 
Still they are.

But Manipur,Mizoram,Nagaland, Meghalaya have for all purposes become mini neo-fanatical Christian states.And that is a worrying trend that needs to be arrested.


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## jdme

Burnz said:


> Those Bastard Missionaries need to be kicked out. Those Baptist thugs support Secissionist Activities in Manipur in their quest for *Kingdom of Christ*.
> 
> BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | 'Church backing Tripura rebels'
> 
> After some years, we will hear the same in China, Christians asking for Independence.


 

This is a secular country. They can do whatever they want. You are less concerned about welfare of these people and more about religion?

As for as conversion goes, there is a reason missionaries are only saving the soul of "poor and downtrodden". Rest will not buy their product. Much easier to convince someone who might not even know what phone is.


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## jdme

Karthic Sri said:


> Still they are.
> 
> But Manipur,Mizoram,Nagaland, Meghalaya have for all purposes become mini neo-fanatical Christian states.And that is a worrying trend that needs to be arrested.



Why? Indian government systematically ignored them for 50 years, virtually no development reached these states and even today they are not considered "Indian". What exactly are you trying to save? Most of our trouble be it religious conversion or Naxal violation are of our own creation. Easy to blame others, right?


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## Burnz

jdme said:


> This is a secular country. *They can do whatever they want*. You are less concerned about welfare of these people and more about religion?
> 
> As for as conversion goes, there is a reason missionaries are only saving the soul of "poor and downtrodden". Rest will not buy their product. Much easier to convince someone who might not even know what phone is.


 
Creating a New State out of India?

Everything is once Tolerable, Except Loosing a Single Inch of Land.


----------



## KS

jdme said:


> Why? Indian government systematically ignored them for 50 years, virtually no development reached these states and even today they are not considered "Indian". What exactly are you trying to save? Most of our trouble be it religious conversion or Naxal violation are of our own creation. Easy to blame others, right?


 
And has development reached them just because they started following the True Path ?

And the reason why the rotten Govt of the Congress has not checked it because of the vote-bank politics.

I'm just trying to save these people from the inevitable backlash that will arise from the so explicit basterdization of our culture that damages the fragile social fabric to its core.

And yes dont argue that the present Maoist scums are after development after they regularly blow up roads, bridges, school buildings, telecom towers etc in the rural areas. They are just devoured by the lust for power.



jdme said:


> As for as conversion goes, there is a reason missionaries are only saving the soul of "poor and downtrodden". Rest will not buy their product. *Much easier to convince someone who might not even know what phone is.*


 
And is that illuminating the soul and leading them onto the God's chosen path ? Hardly.

Just because the Govt failed in its duties doesn't mean these scums must make use of it for their own gains.


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## jdme

Karthic Sri said:


> *And has development reached them just because they started following the True Path *?
> 
> And the reason why the rotten Govt of the Congress has not checked it because of the vote-bank politics.
> 
> I'm just trying to save these people from the inevitable backlash that will arise from the so explicit basterdization of our culture that damages the fragile social fabric to its core.
> 
> And yes dont argue that the present Maoist scums are after development after they regularly blow up roads, bridges, school buildings, telecom towers etc in the rural areas. They are just devoured by the lust for power.


 
Is that your answer?

Naga people for example are mostly Christians and I don't think they care much "inevitable backlash that will arise from the so explicit bastardization of our culture that damages the fragile social fabric to its core".


India is not a Hindu country. Feel free to proselytize and bring them back to fold.


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## jdme

Burnz said:


> *Creating a New State out of India*?
> 
> Everything is once Tolerable, Except Loosing a Single Inch of Land.


 
They are not Indians atleast not as for as Indian government or it's masses are concerned. They were never treated like one. Can you blame them for not feeling the love? You cannot be discriminating on one hand and then preach innocence.


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## KS

jdme said:


> Is that your answer?
> 
> *Naga people for example are mostly Christians and I don't think they care much "inevitable backlash that will arise from the so explicit bastardization of our culture that damages the fragile social fabric to its core".*
> 
> 
> India is not a Hindu country. Feel free to proselytize and bring them back to fold.



Yes that was my answer and it was validated by the recent Kandhmal riots which happened mainly because of the local tribal discontent on the conversion.

No one is saying India is a Hindu country (though it was) . A person can be a Christian or a Muslim and still follow the Indian culture like the Muslims in Tamil Nadu or the Christians in Kerala.

The problem arises with these neo-converts and the evangelists who altogether denounce other religions specially the Dharmic ones as Satan worship which in turn causes discontent among others. Don't forget even though India is not a Hindu country still 80% are Hindus


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## jdme

^^Well let them go and all your headaches are gone!


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## KS

jdme said:


> ^^Well let them go and all your headaches are gone!


 
Err.. I did not get your point. Let them go..where ?


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## jdme

Karthic Sri said:


> Err.. I did not get your point. Let them go..where ?


 
Let them secede. You don't like them, never spent a dime on them, never accepted them as Indian and now you are concerned that they are NOT Indian and somehow affecting rest of the country?


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## cross1993

I verified it: 
China has 200 million Buddhists.
China has 165 million Taoists.
China has 23 million Christians.
China has 20 million Muslims.
*China has 950 million atheist.*

ä¸­å½åºç£æ -- ç½ç«åçº§ä¸­....


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## KS

jdme said:


> *Let them secede.* You don't like them, never spent a dime on them, never accepted them as Indian and now you are concerned that they are NOT Indian and somehow affecting rest of the country?


 
Are you for real ? Who said we never accepted them as Indian ? who said we never spent a dime on them ? This only shows your knowledge about the NE insurgency movements which are not economic but ethnic. And are you one of those crazies who thinks only Hindi speakers are Indians ? Well let me be clear. I'm not a Hindi speaker either nor is my culture the same as North Indians. But still we share the same identity as Indian and so do North-Easterners.

We just cant let them go because some madmen came and exploited them telling they will be shown the true path. But then we can make them(secessionists) 'go' in a different way. They can pack their bags and move wherever they are cared for.

The land of India is not going anywhere as there are still some words like "Territorial Integrity", "Sovereignity" which are the bedrock of the Indian Constitution.


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## jdme

Karthic Sri said:


> Are you for real ?


 
More real than arm chair Indian experts. Have you even been to Nagaland? Met many Nagas in your life? To fix a problem, you must first understand the problem.


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## jdme

cross1993 said:


> I verified it:
> China has 200 million Buddhists.
> China has 165 million Taoists.
> China has 23 million Christians.
> China has 20 million Muslims.
> *China has 950 million atheist.*
> 
> ä¸å&#8250;½å&#376;ºç£æ&#8226;&#8482; -- ç½&#8216;ç«&#8482;å&#8225;çº§ä¸....


 
Oh I have MET many atheist Chinese


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## Burnz

cross1993 said:


> I verified it:
> China has 200 million Buddhists.
> China has 165 million Taoists.
> China has 23 million Christians.
> China has 20 million Muslims.
> *China has 950 million atheist.*
> 
> ä¸å½åºç&#65533;£æ -- ç½ç«å&#65533;çº§ä¸....


 
China has 65 Million Christians. Thrice than in India and are the Fastest Growing Religion in China according to many sources.


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## KS

jdme said:


> More real than arm chair Indian experts. Have you even been to Nagaland? Met many Nagas in your life? To fix a problem, you must first understand the problem.


 
Not to Nagaland. But I've been to the NE and met people there.

Does that satisfy you ?


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## cross1993

Burnz said:


> China has 65 Million Christians. Thrice than in India and are the Fastest Growing Religion in China according to many sources.


 
Not so much. They exaggerate the facts.
In China, Most Christians is the elderly, Most Muslims is the Western Province people, Main Chinese people are atheists.


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## Thomas

cross1993 said:


> CPC is the Chinese Government, not the American government. Only the Chinese people have the right to evaluate the Chinese government, not American. Whether you like CPC, You are not qualified to make decisions for the Chinese people.
> 
> Satisfaction with Country's Direction(Pew Research Center):
> Database | Pew Global Attitudes Project
> Pew Research Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 1st, China, 87%
> 2nd, Brazil, 50%
> 
> *The Chinese government has the right to manage the Chinese people, Vatican has no right, West has no right.*
> 
> 
> 1# Chinese people believe that, Prosperous life important than a single vote.
> 2# Ordinary Chinese people can become president, but not through the media to get the seat. You have to start from the most junior civil servants, You must through capacity and effort been promoted again and again, So he is definitely not a fool who can be president.
> So USA had some good president, for example: Clinton, Bush(old)...and USA also had some bad president, for example(only my opinion): Bush(young), Obama...
> 3# Wall Street can control USA gov through the media.
> For example, family planning, state-owned enterprises reform, etc... these policies all can not implemented in the USA. Because selfish media will destroy it all, and USA President also did not dare to do it. But China can do it.
> 4# Does Hu Jintao have term limits ? Yes, 10 Years.
> Does China's rights by one person to master it? No, nine people rule the country together. Hu Jintao's State Rights a lot less than Obama.
> 
> 
> Hu Jintao, He used to be a dam workers, now he is the president of China:


 
Who said anything about making decisions for the Chinese people? The point was that the Vatican broke relations with the Chinese Catholic church when the Government wanted to say who could be bishops, pastors, ECT. In other words they wanted only those who were faithful to the party and would report on it's members. Now I ask you what right does any Government have to hinder a private citizens worship of God? As well as destroy churches, persecute, torture, and imprison believers.

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## cross1993

"destroy churches, persecute, torture, and imprison believers."???? It is just rumors and excuses.
See the subject "CHINA TO BECOME WORLD'S LARGEST CHRISTIAN NATION BY MID-CENTURY". This can prove you're lying. 

Whether atheist or Christian, They are all the Chinese people. The Chinese government has the right to manage the Chinese people, Vatican has no right, West has no right.


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## Tractor

I don''t know.My neighbour is collecting young people in his apartment for Christian things,no one prevent them and I enjoy it.
They are just singing right now.So faithful I should say.


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## Tigershark

Thomas said:


> Who said anything about making decisions for the Chinese people? The point was that the Vatican broke relations with the Chinese Catholic church when the Government wanted to say who could be bishops, pastors, ECT. In other words they wanted only those who were faithful to the party and would report on it's members. Now I ask you what right does any Government have to hinder a private citizens worship of God? As well as destroy churches, persecute, torture, and imprison believers.


 
Thomas. A very Christan name. Are you catholic by any chance? I have many protestant friends and they shower the Vatican with the highest forms of derision. The idea that a foreign cult can make political decisions in China like hiring and firing bishops and clergy, is arrogant in the extreme, and a blatant form of political interference. If China let this pass, the Vatican will be running China in a few decades, through the power of their religious followers. 

The Vatican running another country is not religious freedom--don't hide behind that catch-phrase--it is the most mundane of ambitions, power and control.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

I don't look at Christianity in the political sense.

If Indians convert to Christianity which is an alien religion, how can those who maybe Indians but has no idea of the religion, decide who should be the Head of their Group and what should be prayed?


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## Thomas

Tigershark said:


> Thomas. A very Christan name. Are you catholic by any chance? I have many protestant friends and they shower the Vatican with the highest forms of derision. The idea that a foreign cult can make political decisions in China like hiring and firing bishops and clergy, is arrogant in the extreme, and a blatant form of political interference. If China let this pass, the Vatican will be running China in a few decades, through the power of their religious followers.
> 
> The Vatican running another country is not religious freedom--don't hide behind that catch-phrase--it is the most mundane of ambitions, power and control.


 
No I am protestant, And while I don't agree with everything the Catholic church practices. There are many Catholics who do have a true relationship with God. Neither the Catholic or Protestant churches have a desire to take the place of the Communist party in China. What they do want is to worship God without the Government demolishing their churches and imprisoning their pastors and members. Even the so called official churches at times have their churches demolished for no reason. 

I have a lot of respect for Chinese Christians. And all Christians for that matter who live in countries where being Christian means certian persecution and at times imprisonment, torture and death. They count the cost of their decision to commit their lives to living according to Jesus teachings. And yet they don't give in to the persecution. Why? because God has revealed himself to them in a very personal way. 

And I say again what right does a Government (any government in the world) have to tell one of it's citizens. They can't worship God unless the Government is allowed to control that worship. Spirituality is a very personal choice, not a political one. Governments should serve the people not tell them how to think or worship.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Thomas said:


> *I have a lot of respect for Chinese Christians. And all Christians for that matter* who live in countries where being Christian means certian persecution and at times imprisonment, torture and death. They count the cost of their decision to commit their lives to living according to Jesus teachings. And yet they don't give in to the persecution. Why? because God has revealed himself to them in a very personal way.


 
What about us atheists?

Do we get the same level of respect?


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## Thomas

cross1993 said:


> "destroy churches, persecute, torture, and imprison believers."???? It is just rumors and excuses.
> See the subject "CHINA TO BECOME WORLD'S LARGEST CHRISTIAN NATION BY MID-CENTURY". This can prove you're lying.
> 
> Whether atheist or Christian, They are all the Chinese people. The Chinese government has the right to manage the Chinese people, Vatican has no right, West has no right.


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## Thomas

Chinese-Dragon said:


> What about us atheists?
> 
> Do we get the same level of respect?


 
It is your decision whether to be a worshiper of God or an Atheist. If you lived in my country I would even defend your right to be Atheist if the Government tried to tell you otherwise.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Thomas said:


> It is your decision whether to be a worshiper of God or an Atheist. If you lived in my country I would even defend your right to be Atheist if the Government tried to tell you otherwise.


 
My aunt and her family, are Chinese Christians.

Nobody has told them to stop being Christians, and they are doing very well for themselves.

In fact, when I was younger, she gave me a Bible to read. I have read the whole thing several times, I found it very interesting.


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## Tigershark

Thomas said:


> No I am protestant, And while I don't agree with everything the Catholic church practices. There are many Catholics who do have a true relationship with God. Neither the Catholic or Protestant churches have a desire to take the place of the Communist party in China. What they do want is to worship God without the Government demolishing their churches and imprisoning their pastors and members. Even the so called official churches at times have their churches demolished for no reason.
> 
> I have a lot of respect for Chinese Christians. And all Christians for that matter who live in countries where being Christian means certian persecution and at times imprisonment, torture and death. They count the cost of their decision to commit their lives to living according to Jesus teachings. And yet they don't give in to the persecution. Why? because God has revealed himself to them in a very personal way.


 
You're skirting the issue that it is precisely political control that the Vatican wishes to have over the appointment of Chinese clergy, clergy which have a clear anti-communist agenda and preach firebrand sermons condemning the chinese government. They are no different than the nobel committee who sends Peace Prizes to dissents who spread violence not peace. 

People of China are free to worship whatever diety they choose, but political control of the Vatican over China is unacceptable, and no different than neocolonialism.



Thomas said:


> And I say again what right does a Government (any government in the world) have to tell one of it's citizens. They can't worship God unless the Government is allowed to control that worship. Spirituality is a very personal choice, not a political one. Governments should serve the people not tell them how to think or worship.



The Vatican is a medieval theocracy. The pope goes out of his way to condemn condoms. His church persecuted Galileo for producing a correct model of the universe. I don't want any of that feudal influence in China, thank you very much.


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## no_name

Chinese-Dragon said:


> My aunt and her family, are Chinese Christians.
> 
> Nobody has told them to stop being Christians, and they are doing very well for themselves.
> 
> In fact, when I was younger, she gave me a Bible to read. I have read the whole thing several times, I found it very interesting.


 
I find the old testament god disturbing to be honest. That is partly what turned me away after I have first read the first 4 book about Jesus. They didn't think I'll read the entire thing but I did.

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## Chinese-Dragon

no_name said:


> I find the old testament god disturbing to be honest. That is partly what turned me away after I have first read the first 4 book about Jesus. They didn't think I'll read the entire thing but I did.


 
Depends on how you look at it.

I read the Old Testament first, and I found it very interesting.

When you say "disturbing", are you referring to the fact that the Old Testament has a lot of violence in it, and that the God of the Old Testament describes himself as a "jealous and vengeful" God? (That is in his own words).

I think the writers of the Bible were trying to put God across as a somewhat "human" figure, since according to their theology, all humans were made in the image of God. So it is natural that there would be many shared traits.


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## Tigershark

I agree. Christianity is the finest example of a religion making it up as it goes along. Jesus of Nazareth started as an itinerant preacher, preaching an apocalyptic vision of a day of reckoning in which the corrupt rulers would meet their maker and the poor would be exalted. Then he got in trouble with the temple priests for rabble-rousing and got himself crucified as a low criminal. His followers had thought him a divine figure, but what god or prophet gets crucified? So his followers made up the idea that his death was meant to cleanse the human sin and bring salvation. 

His apostles believed his predictions and thought judgment day would come any time. It never did, and later books in the bible does its best to redact Jesus' apocalyptic preaching and turns his teaching into the works of morality we know today. 

Then comes the debate on whether Jesus was fully god, fully human, or a human inhabited by god, or whatever. The early church got together in a committee and imposed the comprise that came to be known as the Trinity: God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are one and the same.

Then there is the problem that the God of the old testament, Yahweh, is so different from the kind and mild Jesus as to be entirely different beings. An entire sect of Christianity evolved and was destroyed revolving around that fact.

And the discrepancies goes on and on, from its Jewish roots to the Gentile transformation, Christianity is just one long tale of men making up the story of god as he goes along.

There is a big difference between reading the bible as a novice and reading it with real scholarly comment from modern religious studies professors. I'd encourage you to take a course or read a book that exposes the winding evolutionary history of Christianity.


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## no_name

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Depends on how you look at it.
> 
> I read the Old Testament first, and I found it very interesting.
> 
> When you say "disturbing", are you referring to the fact that the Old Testament has a lot of violence in it, and that the God of the Old Testament describes himself as a "jealous and vengeful" God? (That is in his own words).
> 
> I think the writers of the Bible were trying to put God across as a somewhat "human" figure, since according to their theology, all humans were made in the image of God. So it is natural that there would be many shared traits.


 
The old testament reads like a conquering king would have written it. If you obey only 9 out of every 10 commands, your village is still wiped out to the last goat.

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## Tigershark

no_name said:


> The old testament reads like a conquering king would have written it. If you obey only 9 out of every 10 commands, your village is still wiped out to the last goat.


 
The god of the old testament, Yahweh, is the War God, I believe, of the Israelites. Then the Cult of Yahweh converted everyone to believe that there is only one god, Yahweh, and that was how Judaism was born. And that's why the Old Testament god is so violent and cruel.

This series of video, a summary of the book "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong, a former nun, I believe, explains the history of the Christian and Jewish God very well. I highly recommend it.


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## no_name

I get that feeling too, so basically you can read the old testament as a historical record of conquering isrealites and wraths they inflicted on their neighbours. There is just so many things in there that can be considered war crimes by today's standards.


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## Chinese-Dragon

no_name said:


> The old testament reads like a conquering king would have written it. If you obey only 9 out of every 10 commands, your village is still wiped out to the last goat.


 
Of course, that was how the world was back then.

Warfare was the norm, with tribes conquering other tribes, and large amounts of bloodshed.

The New Testament is much more peaceful, apart from the last book "Revelation" which sounds a lot like the OT.


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## no_name

I think the New testament was a transition point where they started to convert other ethnic people under roman rule. In the old testament you see no conversion of other tribes - people/communities who are not israelites were simply destroyed

Then I think Islam rised up again when there is a power vacuum in the middle east after the romans. And you have this 'hard' conversion again until later times.


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## Chinese-Dragon

no_name said:


> I think the New testament was a transition point where they started to convert other ethnic people under roman rule. In the old testament you see no conversion of other tribes - people/communities who are not israelites were simply destroyed


 
You could be right. The big difference between Christianity and Judaism, is that Christianity seeks to convert people. But Judaism does not.

That could help to explain the difference in tone between the Old Testament and the New Testament.


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## Tigershark

Very true. Judaism is a tribal religion. It is a set of beliefs that unite a group of culturally homogenous people. The whole tradition of circumcision and ritual food laws are meant to set the Jews apart from others. They consider themselves God's chosen. Christianity seeks to evangelize, to spread the gospel, the "good news".


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## Chinese-Dragon

Tigershark said:


> Very true. Judaism is a tribal religion. It is a set of beliefs that unite a group of culturally homogenous people. They consider themselves God's chosen. Christianity seeks to evangelize, to spread the gospel, the "good news".


 
That is right. They call it the "Great Commission", the command of Jesus for them to go out and convert others.

Great Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## cross1993

Thomas said:


>


 
1# The video is a fake, If CPC wants to destroy Christianity, Christianity can not survive in China. But in fact, Christianity has developed rapidly in China.

2# If you are not satisfied with China's Christian policy, You can accuse the Chinese government. But you should not support the Vatican.
The Chinese government has the right to manage the Chinese people, Vatican has no right, West has no right.
*For example, if Chinese govt dissatisfied with US racial discrimination, Can Chinese govt require that US President appointed by the Chinese govt?*


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## Thomas

Tigershark said:


> You're skirting the issue that it is precisely political control that the Vatican wishes to have over the appointment of Chinese clergy, clergy which have a clear anti-communist agenda and preach firebrand sermons condemning the chinese government. They are no different than the nobel committee who sends Peace Prizes to dissents who spread violence not peace.
> 
> People of China are free to worship whatever diety they choose, but political control of the Vatican over China is unacceptable, and no different than neocolonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> The Vatican is a medieval theocracy. The pope goes out of his way to condemn condoms. His church persecuted Galileo for producing a correct model of the universe. I don't want any of that feudal influence in China, thank you very much.



You keep talking about the Vatican when it's the protestant church that is mainly growing. Protestantism has no Church hierarchy like the Vatican. It is the home churches that are growing. And no matter how much you may want to stamp them out. In the end the communist party like all the other persecutors of history will fail. Even in North Korea which is by far the worst persecutor of Christians in the world, the Church is growing.


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## ChineseTiger1986

CCP is too nice with Christianity, these cults deserve to get banned considering their historical record.


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## below_freezing

We should use full strategic force against all cults and insurgents. Muslim terrorists have killed only 100 Chinese, but radical Christian (Protestant) terrorists have killed 20 million.

Islam came to China on a mule with gold.
Buddhism came to China by monks on a horse.
Christianity came flying in on an artillery shell.


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## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> We should use full strategic force against all cults and insurgents. Muslim terrorists have killed only 100 Chinese, but radical Christian (Protestant) terrorists have killed 20 million.
> 
> Islam came to China on a mule with gold.
> Buddhism came to China by monks on a horse.
> Christianity came flying in on an artillery shell.



The Islamic culture survived in China via the ancient history of the culture integration, and the Christianity's existence is the implantation of the modern Western colonialism.

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## huzihaidao12

Thomas said:


> You keep talking about the Vatican when it's the protestant church that is mainly growing. Protestantism has no Church hierarchy like the Vatican. It is the home churches that are growing. And no matter how much you may want to stamp them out. In the end the communist party like all the other persecutors of history will fail. Even in North Korea which is by far the worst persecutor of Christians in the world, the Church is growing.


 
To learn more about Chinese history, then with an easy mouth.


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## TEXAS BATTLESTAR

hamtaro said:


> Yes vietnamese are well known ladykillers


 
Yeah and Germans are great inbreeders!


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## Thomas

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> CCP is too nice with Christianity, these cults deserve to get banned considering their historical record.



Christianity is banned in North Korea and it has done them no good.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Lol, at least the big Kim was doing the right thing of not letting their citizens got plagued by this abomination named Christianity.

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## TEXAS BATTLESTAR

Thomas said:


> Christianity is banned in North Korea and it has done them no good.


 
Christianity is a myth, and mythology should never play a big role in society. It has no spiritual connections to the person or the community. All it is just using a warm happy face as a tool to eradicate one's natural history, culture, and pride and placing it with "Jesus".

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## ChineseTiger1986

TEXAS BATTLESTAR said:


> Christianity is a myth, and mythology should never play a big role in society. It has no spiritual connections to the person or the community. All it is just using a warm happy face as a tool to eradicate one's natural history, culture, and pride and placing it with "Jesus".


 
Furthermore, it is just a ripoff of the Greek Mythology and the Zoroastrianism, nothing but a worthless copycat religion.

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## scuthan

Thomas said:


> Christianity is banned in North Korea and it has done them no good.



Christianity is not banned in North Korea. they have some churches.

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## ChineseTiger1986

scuthan said:


> Christianity is not banned in North Korea. they have some churches.


 
Too bad those remaining North Korean Christians are still starving because of the US sanctions.

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## scuthan

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Too bad those remaining North Korean Christians are still starving because of the US sanctions.


 
there was famine in mid-1990s, but i don't think there is starvation now in North Korea.

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## NmHqh2JbVo

If there were "profit" in it being a Christian, sure, why not, there is a chance for this to happen, or at least some hopers can hope for this to happen. But just don't ask for donation. Cause if you do, all of them converted will revert. 

Well, on a more serious note, In Christianity dominated western European countries, the generic unquenchable desire for John's and is to be feeling equal to his/her peers, at least on earth; whereas the Chinese core cultural value is fairness. Similar, but "fatally" thus hopelessly different if half of Chinese are to be converted to Christianity.

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## ChineseTiger1986

NmHqh2JbVo said:


> If there were "profit" in it being a Christian, sure, why not, there is a chance for this to happen, or at least some hopers can hope for this to happen. But just don't ask for donation. Cause if you do, all of them converted will revert overnight.
> 
> Well, on a more serious note, In Christianity dominated western European countries, the generic unquenchable desire for John's and is to be feeling equal to his/her peers, at least on earth; whereas the Chinese core cultural value is fairness. Similar, but "fatally" different if half of Chinese are to be converted to Christianity.


 
Those Illuminatis really give the Christianity a bad name.

BTW, Orthodox Christianity is much peaceful than their Western counterpart.

We are against the Christianity in China because many of them were backed by the Western intelligence.

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## KSRaj

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Here you go buddy:
> 
> Taiping Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 

From the link above:



> In the 20th century, China's communist leader Mao Zedong glorified the Taipings as early heroic revolutionaries against a corrupt feudal system.



Does this count among the 30% of what Mao did or the 70%?


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## Chinese-Dragon

KSRaj said:


> From the link above:
> 
> Does this count among the 30% of what Mao did or the 70%?


 
I would disagree with him there.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Furthermore, it is a ripoff of the Greek Mythology and the Zoroastrianism, nothing but a worthless copycat religion.


 

Jesus was an Asian!

Is it being suggested that all Abrahamic religions are rip offs and myths?

That would be something!!!


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## ChineseTiger1986

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> Jesus was an Asian!
> 
> Is it being suggested that all Abrahamic religions are rip offs and myths?
> 
> That would be something!!!


 
According to the Christian fanatics, the Christianity has nothing to do with Islam.

And Jehovah and Allah is not the same deity.

So, don't bring Islam into this.

Oh, Jesus was a White European.


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## KS

Err... I am surprised to see the hate among the Chinese for Christianity that would put the most hard core Bajrang Dali to shame


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## ChineseTiger1986

Karthic Sri said:


> Err... I am surprised to see the hate among the Chinese for Christianity that would put the most hard core Bajrang Dali to shame


 
Good thing is that they can stay away from my motherland.


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## KS

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Good thing is that they can stay away from my motherland.


 
lol make them stay away from my motherland too.

As people said the Orthodox Christians, the Syrian ones are much more peaceful and tolerant of the native culture than the newly converted Pentecostal, Baptist ,Evangelists who just give a bad name to their own religion through their fraudulent means as the non-Christians can hardly distinguish between the neo-convert fanatics and the traditional ones.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Karthic Sri said:


> lol make them stay away from my motherland too.
> 
> As people said the Orthodox Christians, the Syrian ones are much more peaceful and tolerant of the native culture than the newly converted Pentecostal, Baptist ,Evangelists who just give a bad name to their own religion through their fraudulent means as the non-Christians can hardly distinguish between the neo-convert fanatics and the traditional ones.


 
Yeah, Protestantism is the worst of all, especially those Calvinism/Puritanism/Baptism cums need to f@ck off.

BTW, i am living in a region with the Catholic majority, i won't say that for sure.


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## kamakazi attack

the chinese on PDF really riled up their christian bashing eh??

wonder what they said about islam when they go to some other site that is not dominated by Pakistanis? 

dont be fool by our chinese friends...that they are just intolerable to islam but they go to some other sites to talk Sh@t there.

i am surprise to see so many chinese "canadians" here supposedly growing up in canada yet they have a mentality and intolerance attitude like they just came out nazi class.

also surprisingly how they love and praise china for everything...my question...if china is such a utopia...why dont you pack up and move to china???

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## ChineseTiger1986

kamakazi attack said:


> the chinese on PDF really riled up their christian bashing eh??
> 
> wonder what they said about islam when they go to some other site that is not dominated by Pakistanis?
> 
> dont be fool by our chinese friends...that they are just intolerable to islam but they go to some other sites to talk Sh@t there.
> 
> i am surprise to see so many chinese "canadians" here supposedly growing up in canada yet they have a mentality and intolerance attitude like they just came out nazi class.
> 
> also surprisingly how they love and praise china for everything...my question...if china is such a utopia...why dont you pack up and move to china???


 
We respect Islam, but not to the little Nips who are running their mouth with verbal diarrhea.

It is the time to worry about your radiation than talking bs to us.

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## kamakazi attack

why are you so mad son? get back to factory floor and sew me some socks.


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## Burnz

I have made a Site for Persecution by Christianity.

Persecution by Christianity Let the NUN Speak.

Do Let me know if you want to add something.

Very *Eye Opener* for Chinese.


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## Thomas

kamakazi attack said:


> the chinese on PDF really riled up their christian bashing eh??
> 
> wonder what they said about islam when they go to some other site that is not dominated by Pakistanis?
> 
> dont be fool by our chinese friends...that they are just intolerable to islam but they go to some other sites to talk Sh@t there.
> 
> i am surprise to see so many chinese "canadians" here supposedly growing up in canada yet they have a mentality and intolerance attitude like they just came out nazi class.
> 
> also surprisingly how they love and praise china for everything...my question...if china is such a utopia...why dont you pack up and move to china???


 
Communist Governments have always loathed Christianity because they consider it a threat to their belief of the State (a.k.a. the Communist party) being the supreme authority. Christians put God first not the state. So what the communists can not control they seek to hinder or destroy. It is interesting to see so many Chinese living outside China (unless maybe they are using a false flag). Continue to carry on party dogma.


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## huzihaidao12

Thomas said:


> Communist Governments have always loathed Christianity because they consider it a threat to their belief of the State (a.k.a. the Communist party) being the supreme authority. Christians put God first not the state. So what the communists can not control they seek to hinder or destroy. It is interesting to see so many Chinese living outside China (unless maybe they are using a false flag). Continue to carry on party dogma.


 
Apart from some delusions, but what would you do? Or said Christian to do any good thing to China ?

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## huzihaidao12

kamakazi attack said:


> the chinese on PDF really riled up their christian bashing eh??
> 
> wonder what they said about islam when they go to some other site that is not dominated by Pakistanis?
> 
> dont be fool by our chinese friends...that they are just intolerable to islam but they go to some other sites to talk Sh@t there.
> 
> i am surprise to see so many chinese "canadians" here supposedly growing up in canada yet they have a mentality and intolerance attitude like they just came out nazi class.
> 
> also surprisingly how they love and praise china for everything...my question...if china is such a utopia...why dont you pack up and move to china???


 
In addition to religious extremists, most Chinese people can and have accepted Islam, he is already part of our culture. But, after the modern, on the one hand, because the religious extremists. On the other hand, pro-Western Chinese have a lot of anti- Muslim propaganda in China, so, frankly, the Chinese people have doubts about Islam, but it is concern, not hostility. we can embraced. For Chinese people most sensitive issue, territorial sovereignty. China has been a principle, as long as mutual respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity, China can become friends. as a Chinese, although there are doubts, but we also have the same good will, we hope that Islam as a civilization, can out of the current difficulties, the Chinese also have experience We have a long-term perspective, Islam can solve their own problems. history is long, like I said, no one can draw conclusions for the development of a civilization. China also has good intentions, if the Muslim countries need China's help, we can also provide, but, clearly said, you also need to respect China's sovereignty, of course, is mutual, China also respect your sovereignty.

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## Tigershark

If the Japanese are so right with God, why did He send you the earthquake and tsunami?


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## Gold1010

Tigershark said:


> If the Japanese are so right with God, why did He send you the earthquake and tsunami?


 
why was there floods in pakistan?

i mean really...

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## ChineseTiger1986

Aussie4ever said:


> why was there floods in pakistan?
> 
> i mean really...


 
Lol, i thought Aussies hate those whale killers.


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## TEXAS BATTLESTAR

kamakazi attack said:


> why are you so mad son? get back to factory floor and sew me some socks.


 
Why are you here to comment, don't you have a nuclear crisis that needs taking care of first and then the disaster clean up?

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## kamakazi attack

TEXAS BATTLESTAR said:


> Why are you here to comment, don't you have a nuclear crisis that needs taking care of first and then the disaster clean up?


 

lol with all the bashing of viets and stuff like "all poor vietnamese all dying to marry a rich chinese businessmen" "vietnam is our biotch" by chinese members we have some vietnamese dude here licking the chinese boot???

why are you commenting then son? don't you have dishes to clean?


LOL i been reading this forum for the a while i start posting and the amount of bashing of vietnam that goes on here by the chinese one would wonder if there were any vietnamese here.

btw the way why are you commenting? don't you have some ghetto feet to pedicure?

hahahah now some viet dude show up to lick chinese azzz but goes missing in action when the chinese..."our pla army should teach vietnam a lesson" 

and all this time i was backing up vietnam because i though no viets were here. i would've though this dude was surely chinese if not for his dat nguyen avatar.


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## kamakazi attack

dear my chinese brothers... drop the chopsticks and hold down the anger.

breath and reflect....

so you really hate christianity eh? 

every other chinese dude is named john, david, peter, paul...may i ask where the f@ck do you think these name are from?

so you really hate christians eh?

if it wasn't for the "evil" christians celebrating christmas and buying all you crap you be working on rice patty walking behind a buffalo and getting farted on.


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## Chinese-Dragon

kamakazi attack said:


> dear my chinese brothers... drop the chopsticks and hold down the anger.


 
LOL, don't you know that Japanese also use chopsticks?


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## tanlixiang28776

Chinese-Dragon said:


> LOL, don't you know that Japanese also use chopsticks?


 
Like I've said. Japanese aren't this stupid.

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## below_freezing

i have to say, jap anese act really hard when they're outside of Japan, but when it comes time to prosecute US soldiers for rape, what happens?

Three Savage Black American Soldiers Rape 12-Year Old Japanese Girl, 1995 | Vatican Assassins

U.S. Soldiers Sought in Alleged Japan Rape - ABC News

Another US soldier held for Japan rape


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## Chinese-Dragon

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Like I've said. Japanese aren't this stupid.


 
I doubt there is a single Japanese person in the world who doesn't know that they use chopsticks in Japan.

I've been there, and everyone uses them. Korea too.


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## Chinese-Dragon

below_freezing said:


> i have to say, jap anese act really hard when they're outside of Japan, but when it comes time to prosecute US soldiers for rape, what happens?


 
What can they do? They gave up their sovereignty to the Americans.

Even the Japanese constitution itself, was written by the Americans, and in such a way that it is almost impossible to change it.

They are stuck with that pacifist constitution. They are powerless before the Americans, who are essentially their big daddy.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Japanese are bunch of white wannabes, and they are really confused about their true identity.


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## kamakazi attack

lol cant get over the fact that there some viet ranger here... and he's cheerleading for chinese. hey dat nguyen where you at when these chinese mofos are bashing your country? 

btw why are you commenting... dont you have some agent orange to clean?


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## kamakazi attack

its like clockworks here... when chinese get stifilled they will....

completely ignore the debate and goes on a personal attack

still waiting for some chinese dude to tell me why....

the white man canoed across 2 oceans to spank china, made chinese crack heads, "leased" a hole bunch of islands and made china beg prince charles for it back...yet the chinese only hating on japan?

and today i would like to know why chinese hate and think Christianity is outright evil yet they continue to name there kids john, david, paul... and work like dogs to make the xmas tree and everything that goes under it?

please I am very peaceful, please don't threaten me on the internet because I get easily frightened...so let just talk like gents.

thank you!


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## ChineseTiger1986

kamakazi attack said:


> its like clockworks here... when chinese get stifilled they will....
> 
> completely ignore the debate and goes on a personal attack
> 
> still waiting for some chinese dude to tell me why....
> 
> the white man canoed across 2 oceans to spank china, made chinese crack heads, "leased" a hole bunch of islands and made china beg prince charles for it back...yet the chinese only hating on japan?
> 
> and today i would like to know why chinese hate and think Christianity is outright evil yet they continue to name there kids john, david, paul... and work like dogs to make the xmas tree and everything that goes under it?
> 
> please I am very peaceful, please don't threaten me on the internet because I get easily frightened...so let just talk like gents.
> 
> thank you!


 
The mainland Chinese never apply any English name for their kid.

China is seeking the cooperation from Japan, yet Japan wants to keep butt-kissing its US master.

So you cannot blame China for not trusting Japan.


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## ChineseTiger1986

And the Chinese folks always maintain a fever about our traditional spring festival, not much into the Christmas.


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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> And the Chinese folks always maintain a fever about our traditional spring festival, not much into the Christmas.


 
Who cares about Christmas?  It's a good excuse for shopping, that is about it.

The biggest celebrations here are Chinese New year, Mid-Autumn festival, etc.


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## tanlixiang28776

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Who cares about Christmas?  It's a good excuse for shopping, that is about it.
> 
> The biggest celebrations here are Chinese New year, Mid-Autumn festival, etc.


 
I used to. But then my parents kept forgetting to get me gifts.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Who cares about Christmas?  It's a good excuse for shopping, that is about it.
> 
> The biggest celebrations here are Chinese New year, Mid-Autumn festival, etc.


 
Yeah, we mostly take Christmas as a normal holiday for shopping purpose, but culturally not really attached to it.

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## A1Kaid

As far as Muslims or Islam in China goes, Muslims have contributed greatly to China. The Islamic caliphate and Ancient China were partners in trade, science, technology, mathematics, and other fields of human endeavors.

Remember the Silk Road? The nexus of the Silk road were mainly the Ancient Chinese and Islamic civilization

Remember the great Chinese Muslim explorer and mariner, The Magellan of China and Muslims * Admiral Zheng He* (Hajji Mahmud).

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## Chinese-Dragon

I can't even remember the last time I celebrated Christmas. It is too close to New years eve, Chinese New year, Lantern festival, etc... why add another one?

Anyway, Jesus was not even born during Christmas. (The Bible does not mention the time of year that he was born).

Christmas was set during the Winter solstice to make it easier for Pagans to convert, since they also had their biggest celebrations during that time.

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## ChineseTiger1986

A1Kaid said:


> As far as Muslims or Islam in China goes, Muslims have contributed greatly to China. The Islamic caliphate and Ancient China were partners in trade, science, technology, mathematics, and other fields of human endeavors.
> 
> Remember the Silk Road? The nexus of the Silk road were mainly the Ancient Chinese and Islamic civilization
> 
> Remember the great Chinese Muslim explorer and mariner, The Magellan of China and Muslims *Zheng He* (Hajji Mahmud).


 
Zheng He was a great man and a genius.

We owe him so much as our incompetent emperors have failed to maintain his precious legacy. He also became childless because of our emperors.

Zheng He should be always remembered by the Chinese people for what he has contributed to us, not just the sailing, but the true spirit of courage.

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## Chinese-Dragon

A1Kaid said:


> As far as Muslims or Islam in China goes, Muslims have contributed greatly to China. The Islamic caliphate and Ancient China were partners in trade, science, technology, mathematics, and other fields of human endeavors.
> 
> Remember the Silk Road? The nexus of the Silk road were mainly the Ancient Chinese and Islamic civilization
> 
> Remember the great Chinese Muslim explorer and mariner, The Magellan of China and Muslims * Admiral Zheng He* (Hajji Mahmud).


 
Well said.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I can't even remember the last time I celebrated Christmas. It is too close to New years eve, Chinese New year, Lantern festival, etc... why add another one?
> 
> Anyway, Jesus was not even born during Christmas. (The Bible does not mention the time of year that he was born).
> 
> Christmas was set during the Winter solstice to make it easier for Pagans to convert, since they also had their biggest celebrations during that time.


 
I think the Christmas might have its origin from the Norse Paganism, but it has been later plagiarized by the Christianity.

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## huzihaidao12

kamakazi attack said:


> dear my chinese brothers... drop the chopsticks and hold down the anger.
> 
> breath and reflect....
> 
> so you really hate christianity eh?
> 
> every other chinese dude is named john, david, peter, paul...may i ask where the f@ck do you think these name are from?
> 
> so you really hate christians eh?
> 
> if it wasn't for the "evil" christians celebrating christmas and buying all you crap you be working on rice patty walking behind a buffalo and getting farted on.


 
Rest assured that if a foreigner with foreign names, it can be understood. but a Chinese person in China to use foreign names, it can not even survive, just to stay in their own circles. So, you see, who cares where these names come from .

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## TEXAS BATTLESTAR

kamakazi attack said:


> lol with all the bashing of viets and stuff like "all poor vietnamese all dying to marry a rich chinese businessmen" "vietnam is our biotch" by chinese members we have some vietnamese dude here licking the chinese boot???
> 
> why are you commenting then son? don't you have dishes to clean?
> 
> 
> btw the way why are you commenting? don't you have some ghetto feet to pedicure?
> 
> hahahah now some viet dude show up to lick chinese azzz but goes missing in action when the chinese..."our pla army should teach vietnam a lesson"
> 
> and all this time i was backing up vietnam because i though no viets were here. i would've though this dude was surely chinese if not for his dat nguyen avatar.


 


What's the matter sumo, lost your diaper? Your online tough guy mentally is as weak as your karate. You need to go back to your Menga and Hentai and start messaging yourself to sleep!

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## TEXAS BATTLESTAR

kamakazi attack said:


> its like clockworks here... when chinese get stifilled they will....
> 
> completely ignore the debate and goes on a personal attack
> 
> still waiting for some chinese dude to tell me why....
> 
> the white man canoed across 2 oceans to spank china, made chinese crack heads, "leased" a hole bunch of islands and made china beg prince charles for it back...yet the chinese only hating on japan?
> 
> and today i would like to know why chinese hate and think Christianity is outright evil yet they continue to name there kids john, david, paul... and work like dogs to make the xmas tree and everything that goes under it?
> 
> please I am very peaceful, please don't threaten me on the internet because I get easily frightened...so let just talk like gents.
> 
> thank you!




Because Japs like you are the one with the penis enlargement fettish! You got some past historical crimes that needs to be repaid first before commenting on your destabilizing nuclear power plant. Remember all the WWII crimes that Japan did all across Asia? Yes mam, that's the one. 

Christians are for the whites and they can keep that Jebus to themselves for all I care. Chinese and all other Asians wants to work hard to build an empire of course, Jesus F*cking Christ, Batman where have you been?

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## Tiki Tam Tam

Zheng He is one of the few who has etched his name in Chinese history.

However, China being an atheist state does not encourage religion in the way it allowed elsewhere.

Religion is controlled by the State and rightly so, since there are many who use religion for political reasons.

Islam in Xinjiang is mentioned in this link.

Link

Muslim Religious Education in China

Muslim Religious Education in China


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## ChineseTiger1986

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> Zheng He is one of the few who has etched his name in Chinese history.
> 
> However, China being an atheist state does not encourage religion in the way it allowed elsewhere.
> 
> Religion is controlled by the State and rightly so, since there are many who use religion for political reasons.
> 
> Islam in Xinjiang is mentioned in this link.
> 
> Link
> 
> Muslim Religious Education in China
> 
> Muslim Religious Education in China


 
Hai Rui, a famous uncorrupt official from the Ming Dynasty, who was a descendant of the Arabic Muslim.

Hai Rui - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Burnz

A1Kaid said:


> As far as Muslims or Islam in China goes, Muslims have contributed greatly to China. The Islamic caliphate and Ancient China were partners in trade, science, technology, mathematics, and other fields of human endeavors.
> 
> Remember the Silk Road? The nexus of the Silk road were mainly the Ancient Chinese and *Islamic civilization*
> 
> Remember the great Chinese Muslim explorer and mariner, The Magellan of China and Muslims * Admiral Zheng He* (Hajji Mahmud).


 
There was nothing called Islamic Civilization.

It was Arab Civilization.

Remember They Robbed something from us.

Hindu Numerals weren't named Islamic Nuerals -- Arab Numerals


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## Tiki Tam Tam

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Hai Rui, a famous uncorrupt official from the Ming Dynasty, who was a descendant of the Arabic Muslim.
> 
> Hai Rui - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I presume you are not meaning that all the other officials of the Ming Dynasty were corrupt.

As I mentioned in the earlier post - Zheng He is *one of the few* who has etched his name in Chinese history. The operative words are - one of the few.

It is always prudent to use such famous minorities to play politics as is noted from your link.

_"Hai Rui Dismissed from Office", written by Communist Party official Wu Han in 1959 and later made into a Peking Opera play, was interpreted by the later Gang of Four member Yao Wenyuan as an allegorical work with the honest moral official Hai Rui representing disgraced official Peng Dehuai, who had fallen foul of Mao for his outspoken criticism of the Great Leap Forward movement, and the corrupt emperor representing Mao Zedong. The November 10, 1965 article in a prominent Shanghai newspaper, "A Criticism of the Historical Drama 'Hai Rui Dismissed From Office'" (&#35780;&#26032;&#32534;&#21382;&#21490;&#21095;&#12298;&#28023;&#29790;&#32610;&#23448;&#12299, written by Yao, is widely seen as the spark that ignited the Cultural Revolution. During the Cultural Revolution, the grave of Hai Rui was destroyed but it has since been rebuilt._

What was important in my earlier post was in context of religion and how it is played out in China. 

In so far as Islam in China, I mentioned the links.

I am sure you have not read them.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> I presume you are not meaning that all the other officials of the Ming Dynasty were corrupt.
> 
> As I mentioned in the earlier post - Zheng He is *one of the few* who has etched his name in Chinese history. The operative words are - one of the few.
> 
> It is always prudent to use such famous minorities to play politics as is noted from your link.
> 
> _"Hai Rui Dismissed from Office", written by Communist Party official Wu Han in 1959 and later made into a Peking Opera play, was interpreted by the later Gang of Four member Yao Wenyuan as an allegorical work with the honest moral official Hai Rui representing disgraced official Peng Dehuai, who had fallen foul of Mao for his outspoken criticism of the Great Leap Forward movement, and the corrupt emperor representing Mao Zedong. The November 10, 1965 article in a prominent Shanghai newspaper, "A Criticism of the Historical Drama 'Hai Rui Dismissed From Office'" (&#35780;&#26032;&#32534;&#21382;&#21490;&#21095;&#12298;&#28023;&#29790;&#32610;&#23448;&#12299, written by Yao, is widely seen as the spark that ignited the Cultural Revolution. During the Cultural Revolution, the grave of Hai Rui was destroyed but it has since been rebuilt._
> 
> What was important in my earlier post was in context of religion and how it is played out in China.
> 
> In so far as Islam in China, I mentioned the links.
> 
> I am sure you have not read them.


 
There were also other uncorrupt officials, but this guy was like a Saint, that made him famous.

And i do admit that the cultural revolution was Mao's foolishness, that's why we scraped his ideology immediately after his death.


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## Kevrai

China detains underground church followers: group
(AFP)  11 hours ago

BEIJING  Police in Beijing rounded up dozens of followers of an underground Protestant church Sunday, a rights group said, as a widening crackdown on dissent appeared to spread to religious figures.

Police late Saturday also detained Jin Tianming, a senior pastor of Beijing's Shouwang church, an unregistered Protestant congregation, and other church leaders before releasing them early Sunday, the US-based China Aid group said.

Jin's detention came after the church called for an outdoor worship meeting following a similar gathering last Sunday that resulted in police rounding up nearly 170 church followers, most of whom were later released.

The action against the church comes amid a growing crackdown on dissent across China in which artists, lawyers, writers, activists and intellectuals have been detained for allegedly calling for "Jasmine" rallies, similar to those that have rocked the Arab world.

The Shouwang church, one of Beijing's largest "underground" churches, was forced outdoors after the government blocked the rental of its previous place of worship and prevented it from buying a new meeting place, China Aid said.

The church has adamantly denied it has any links to the Jasmine rally calls.

Beijing police refused to comment on the detention of Jin and other senior church leaders.

Church members were not immediately available to comment, but Twitter Internet postings by followers said Sunday's designated meeting place was under a police lockdown and that worshippers were unable to gather in large numbers.

Many worshippers were taken into police custody near the meeting place, postings said. China Aid said at least 30 church followers were detained.

"Many members of Shouwang church were restricted to their homes Sunday morning and unable to attend Shouwang church's second outdoor worship service," the group said.

"We urge the Chinese government to restrain from using violence to further escalate the conflict with peaceful Shouwang worshippers who ask for nothing but religious freedom alone."

China has detained at least 54 dissidents, activists and others in the ongoing crackdown on dissent, highlighted by the recent detention of famed artist Ai Weiwei, the Chinese Human Rights Defenders said Friday.

The latest to be taken into custody include Ni Yulan, an outspoken wheelchair-bound activist for housing rights, and her husband Dong Jiqin, the Hong Kong-based group said in a statement.

Although freedom of religion is enshrined in China's constitution, all religious groups are required to register with the government and worship in officially sanctioned churches.

About 15 million Protestants and five million Catholics worship at official churches in China, according to recent official data.

But more than 50 million others are believed to pray at "underground" or "house" churches, which refuse to submit to government regulation.

Copyright © 2011 AFP. All rights reserved. 

AFP: China detains underground church followers: group


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## oct605032048

Church and religion are two things. The problem comes when you manage a church and don't obey the law. Since the leader of this under ground church is a Korean I doubt it has something to do with some foreign secret actions.


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## kamakazi attack

TEXAS BATTLESTAR said:


> What's the matter sumo, lost your diaper? Your online tough guy mentally is as weak as your karate. You need to go back to your Menga and Hentai and start messaging yourself to sleep!


 


why are you bolding and coloring your letter? what's up with the gay bunny?

this dude is no viet, I know tons of viets, they don't dont scream like little girls trying to get your attention and they especially don't go around licking chinese anal. nice try son. 

btw dat nguyen would be real depress if he new he had a little corny kid as his fan...he plays football not curling. 

hey can i be cool like you by making my letters bigger and change it to pink?


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## kamakazi attack

live in the past there son... and if you were a true viet.... vietnamese don't give a f@ck about what japan did...100% only feel ill towards what China did.

you heard of the 'trung sisters"? or all vietnamese war heroes...what's their number 1 and only enemy? 

whilel the white boys aka frenchman was raping and spanking your country, japan was the only non-white country to fight back. 

how does the chinese anal tasting lately? does it have chincken balls or dumplings taste to it?


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## below_freezing

Now Japan is too busy being savagely raped by blacks and unable to even lift a finger. What a "fight back"!


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## Chinese-Dragon

kamakazi attack said:


> *how does the chinese anal tasting lately? does it have chincken balls or dumplings taste to it?*


 
You are disgusting.



kamakazi attack said:


> whilel the white boys aka frenchman was raping and spanking your country, japan was the only non-white country to fight back.



Fight back? LOL Japan was completely neutered by the West. They gave up their sovereignty to the USA.

The Americans wrote Japan's entire constitution, and won't allow them to change it. They have forced them into pacifism.

Every country in the world, has the right to have an "Army", except Japan. Their Western masters, only allow them to have "defence forces".

If America wanted to re-occupy Japan, they could do it at any time they wanted. They didn't need to though, they just ordered Japan to revalue their currency, and crashed their economy.


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## kamakazi attack

who gives a dam about a constution that the US wrote for japan? so it based on the rule of law, democratic values and economicaly ties japan to the US? the last time i check the average japanese is still 10x richer then a chinama


who gives a if the currency crash? aint nobody in japan working like a dog to fill for the dollar store.

what good is that china has trillions of worthless papers? ya'll cant do dam with it except make empty threats.

btw why are you commenting? don't you have socks to sew for walmart?

so when will you be begging prince charles for all those looted treasures? 

full circle- englishman take treasure from chinaman, englishman make chinaman work like a dog for pennies, englishman charge hudreds of millions at auctions house for the chinaman to get looted treasure back.

the englishman is still pimping the chinese.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

kamakazi attack said:


> btw why are you commenting? don't you have socks to sew for walmart?


 
I'm from Hong Kong. 

Uncle Sam protects Japan, they are your big daddy.

You love them even after they nuked you twice, and crashed your economy, by forcing you to revalue your currency.

Yet you hate China, even though we never invaded you or nuked you, even after we got nuclear weapons in 1964.

Japan was the nation that butchered millions of innocent Chinese civilians during WW2. War criminals, just like Nazi Germany.

And even after all your war crimes... you still lost the war, and had your balls cut off by Uncle Sam.

Uncle Sam still has your balls, ask them to give it back.

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## kamakazi attack

Portugal occupied Taipa and Coloane in 1851 and 1864 respectively. On December 1, 1887, the Qing and Portuguese governments signed the Sino-Portuguese Treaty of Amity and Commerce, under which China ceded the right of "perpetual occupation and government of Macau by Portugal"

The Qing government agreed to make Hong Kong Island a crown colony, ceding it to the British Queen "in perpetuity" to provide British traders with a harbour where they could unload their goods (Article III). Pottinger was later appointed the first governor of Hong Kong.

1. Britain, France, Russia, and the United States would have the right to station legations in Beijing (Peking, a closed city at the time)
2. Eleven more Chinese ports would be opened for foreign trade, including Newchwang, Danshui (Taiwan), Hankou and Nanjing
3. The right of foreign vessels including warships to navigate freely on the Yangtze River
4. The right of foreigners to travel in the internal regions of China for the purpose of travel, trade or missionary activities
5. China was to pay an indemnity to Britain and France in 2 million taels of silver respectively, and compensation to British merchants in 3 million taels of silver.



dam it seem like the chineses has been pimped by quite a bit of people


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## tanlixiang28776

kamakazi attack said:


> dam it seem like the chineses has been pimped by quite a bit of people


 
Your entire country has been pimped, and is still being pimped. Enjoy.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

kamakazi attack said:


> dam it seem like the chineses has been pimped by quite a bit of people


 
Out of all East Asia, Japan is the only country that has given up its sovereignty to the white man. 

The same white man that nuked your country twice, and crashed your economy.

And you're still bent over and taking it from them.


----------



## kamakazi attack

you're from hong kong? so what's you chinese name? is it michael? john? david?

can you go outside your balcony and tell me if there a large poster of some white boy telling you to look and be cool?

can you turn on your television and tell me what the british gentleman insspector williams is teaching you chinese today?


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## tanlixiang28776

kamakazi attack said:


> you're from hong kong? so what's you chinese name? is it michael? john? david?
> 
> can you go outside your balcony and tell me if there a large poster of some white boy telling you to look and be cool?
> 
> can you turn on your television and tell me what the british gentleman insspector williams is teaching you chinese today?


 
You are confusing Hong Kong with Tokyo.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Dont want to sund like a troll but...... If i was japanese id be pissed at USA for bombing japan,stationing its forces and even writing the constitution of my country.......Unlike the modern japanese people......But i admire them for their resiliance.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

kamakazi attack said:


> you're from hong kong? so what's you chinese name? is it michael? john? david?
> 
> can you go outside your balcony and tell me if there a large poster of some white boy telling you to look and be cool?
> 
> can you turn on your television and tell me what the british gentleman insspector williams is teaching you chinese today?


 
You obviously know nothing about Hong Kong. 

Japan is the one obsessed with caucasians, look at all their anime characters. Blond hair and blue eyes.


----------



## tanlixiang28776

Chinese-Dragon said:


> look at all their anime characters. Blond hair and blue eyes.


 
Wait. I thought Japanese looked like that. I've been lied to all these years?


----------



## below_freezing

kamakazi attack said:


> who gives a dam about a constution that the US wrote for japan? so it based on the rule of law, democratic values and economicaly ties japan to the US? the last time i check the average japanese is still 10x richer then a chinama
> 
> 
> who gives a if the currency crash? aint nobody in japan working like a dog to fill for the dollar store.
> 
> what good is that china has trillions of worthless papers? ya'll cant do dam with it except make empty threats.
> 
> btw why are you commenting? don't you have socks to sew for walmart?
> 
> so when will you be begging prince charles for all those looted treasures?
> 
> full circle- englishman take treasure from chinaman, englishman make chinaman work like a dog for pennies, englishman charge hudreds of millions at auctions house for the chinaman to get looted treasure back.
> 
> the englishman is still pimping the chinese.


 
yeah but black americans are still pimping Jap anese girls today for free. they even have 4P games with them. you know how i learn japanese?

itai~ itai~ itaiyo~~


----------



## Mech

Why does every.single.thread with chinese or that lone japanese member always , ALWAYS degenrate into 'race talks'?! The obsession is unbearable, lol.


----------



## tanlixiang28776

Mech said:


> Why does every.single.thread with chinese or that lone japanese member always , ALWAYS degenrate into 'race talks'?! The obsession is unbearable, lol.


 
Have you read the entire thread?


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Wait. I thought Japanese looked like that. I've been lied to all these years?


 
LOL, I went on a vacation to Tokyo a while back.

Lots of them dye their hair blond, and even wear colored contact lenses.

And they still write using Han characters (they call it Kanji), and use chopsticks.

It is like a "hybrid".


----------



## Mech

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Have you read the entire thread?


 
i can read where it ended up. And the pattern is really quite distict.


----------



## tanlixiang28776

Mech said:


> i can read where it ended up. And the pattern is really quite distict.


 
A idiot laughing at others being colonized in the past and getting silent when we bring up the fact that his country still is, and is the most westernized of all?

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## Chinese-Dragon

tanlixiang28776 said:


> A idiot laughing at others being colonized in the past and getting silent when we bring up the fact that his country still is, and is the most westernized of all?


 
What country in the Eastern world had their entire constitution written by some Westerners?

In fact, the pacifist Japanese consitution, has been written in such a way, that is is almost impossible to change it. It has not been amended even *once* since the end of WW2.

Their sovereignty has been taken by Uncle Sam.

And I have to give America some credit for that.

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## Mech

Chinese-Dragon said:


> What country in the Eastern world had their entire constitution written by some Westerners?
> 
> In fact, the pacifist Japanese consitution, has been written in such a way, that is is almost impossible to change it. It has not been amended even *once* since the end of WW2.
> 
> Their sovereignty has been taken by Uncle Sam.
> 
> And I have to give America some credit for that.


 
They dont seem to be having a problem with that. So, whats your point?


----------



## tanlixiang28776

Mech said:


> They dont seem to be having a problem with that. So, whats your point?


 
Of course they don't. They couldn't change it if they wanted to.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> They dont seem to be having a problem with that. So, whats your point?


 
Firstly, this is none of your business. Though I'm not surprised that an Indian is poking their nose in.

Secondly, Japan was nuked twice by America, had their economy crashed by America, yet their still bend over for America.

China was on the receiving end of Japanese brutality during WW2, with 20 million innocent civilians butchered. We could have paid it back after we got nuclear weapons in 1964, but we never did.

I am responding to this guy attacking us, but as an Indian member here, you obviously hate anything Chinese. So really, no surprise at all.

I've seen Indians laughing about Japanese war crimes against China as well. Laugh it up.


----------



## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Firstly, this is none of your business. Though I'm not surprised that an Indian is poking their nose in.
> 
> Secondly, Japan was nuked twice by America, had their economy crashed by America, yet their still bend over for America.
> 
> China was on the receiving end of Japanese brutality during WW2, with 20 million innocent civilians butchered. We could have paid it back after we got nuclear weapons in 1964, but we never did.
> 
> *I am responding to this guy attacking us, but as an Indian you obviously hate anything Chinese.*


 

Don't generalize a whole nation because of a forum.

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## Chinese-Dragon

|| |\| ||)) || /\\ |\| said:


> Don't generalize a whole nation because of a forum.


 
I can dislike any nation I want.

And it's really none of your business.


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## tanlixiang28776

|| |\| ||)) || /\\ |\| said:


> Don't generalize a whole nation because of a forum.


 
Come on CD. You don't want to become another Gambit. Focus on the individual not the country.

Your choice.


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## Chinese-Dragon

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Come on CD. You don't want to become another Gambit. Focus on the individual not the country.
> 
> Your choice.


 
You're right, it's my choice.

I dislike racism against individuals (which, ironically is why I dislike India)... but I have no problems disliking a country.


----------



## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I can dislike any nation I want.
> 
> And it's really none of your business.


 
Lol ok fair enough  Sorry you take the internet too seriously..


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## Chinese-Dragon

|| |\| ||)) || /\\ |\| said:


> Lol ok fair enough  Sorry you take the internet too seriously..


 
You might have a point if it was only the internet, but I can't say that my real life experiences were too pleasant either.


----------



## kamakazi attack

LOL i am attacking you? "attacking us"? LOL stop being so sensitive

"China was on the receiving end of Japanese brutality during WW2, with 20 million innocent civilians butchered. We could have paid it back after we got nuclear weapons in 1964, but we never did."

if chairman mao would had the guts to nuke japan, i dont think you be here today. uncle sam would carpet bomb your country clean in 1964.. and yes the ussr would kindly gotten involved and a nuclear holocaust would've ensued.


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## Chinese-Dragon

kamakazi attack said:


> LOL i am attacking you? "attacking us"? LOL stop being so sensitive
> 
> "China was on the receiving end of Japanese brutality during WW2, with 20 million innocent civilians butchered. We could have paid it back after we got nuclear weapons in 1964, but we never did."
> 
> if chairman mao would had the guts to nuke japan, i dont think you be here today. uncle sam would carpet bomb your country clean in 1964.. and yes the ussr would kindly gotten involved and a nuclear holocaust would've ensued.


 
Yeah lol, your Western masters will protect you! 

That's what you call real sovereignty.

Now... you guys are getting worried, because America's power is declining. In a decade or so, why would they care about protecting Japan?

We've seen how much America cares about Japan, nuking your country, crashing your economy, etc.


----------



## below_freezing

kamakazi attack said:


> LOL i am attacking you? "attacking us"? LOL stop being so sensitive
> 
> "China was on the receiving end of Japanese brutality during WW2, with 20 million innocent civilians butchered. We could have paid it back after we got nuclear weapons in 1964, but we never did."
> 
> if chairman mao would had the guts to nuke japan, i dont think you be here today. uncle sam would carpet bomb your country clean in 1964.. and yes the ussr would kindly gotten involved and a nuclear holocaust would've ensued.


 
How are you still talking with 3 black * stuffed down your *? or are you going to scream ITAI~ ITAI~ ITAIYO~~~ again?


----------



## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You might have a point if it was only the internet, but I can't say that my real life experiences were too pleasant either.


 
I'm sorry to hear that... I've met idiots everywhere been profiled a lot too.. but whatever its cool I still consider you a respected member


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## tanlixiang28776

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Yeah lol, your Western masters will protect you!
> 
> That's what you call real sovereignty.


 
Its been 60 some years now. They've gotten used to it.

---------- Post added at 04:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:28 AM ----------




below_freezing said:


> How are you still talking with 3 black * stuffed down your *? or are you going to scream ITAI~ ITAI~ ITAIYO~~~ again?


 
I don't need to hear about what Japanese do in their massive **** industry.

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## Chinese-Dragon

|| |\| ||)) || /\\ |\| said:


> I'm sorry to hear that... I've met idiots everywhere been profiled a lot too.. but whatever its cool I still consider you a respected member


 
You're obviously not a "new member" here.

You've been talking about things that happened ages ago on this forum.

Did you forget the password to your old account?


----------



## tanlixiang28776

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You're obviously not a "new" member here.
> 
> You've been talking about things that happened ages ago on this forum.


 
Lets not judge. I didn't sign up until recently and I've been looking at this forum for far longer than that.


----------



## kamakazi attack

why not, while china spend billions on its security and leaving hundreds million of her citizens eating bamboo shoots and making cheap plastic toys, japan is savy enough just like canada to get our protection for free to a certain degree. 

the last time i've check everybody in japan and canada are chillaxing and enjoying life all because of our hard working chinese slaves who work 24/7 to make our life a lot easier,,, though most breaks easily...hell its ONLY a dollar

but the way bough my iphone for $650... your very welcome for the 3 cents that I 've contributed to china for building my phone, the rest of $649.97 goes to your steve jobs...aka your american master

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## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You're obviously not a "new member" here.
> 
> You've been talking about things that happened ages ago on this forum.
> 
> Did you forget the password to your old account?


 
No I've been following this forum since Benny's name changed to Spark. I think I mentioned this in another thread but I just recently decided to create this account.


----------



## tanlixiang28776

kamakazi attack said:


> .aka your american master


----------



## Mech

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Firstly, this is none of your business. Though I'm not surprised that an Indian is poking their nose in.


When you run this forum you can tell me where to post and when. Until then shut your trap. Hey if you can pass magnanimous (*choke*) comments on indian politics, politicians with no clue whatsoever, i can too. 



> China was on the receiving end of Japanese brutality during WW2, with 20 million innocent civilians butchered. We could have paid it back after we got nuclear weapons in 1964, but we never did.


You cannot just 'drop a nuke' after the first test. And besides, snap back into reality.......the WW2 is over. *surprise!*




> I am responding to this guy attacking us, but as an Indian member here, you obviously hate anything Chinese. So really, no surprise at all.



Well, duh! I am an indian so i MUST hate all chinese. Nice to see you stereotyping. And yet you wonder why indian guys say the things they do. 


No, seriously dude...all i asked was why most threads with you guys in it degenerate into 'race talks'. Forget i said anything. Go back to your cave.



> I've seen Indians laughing about Japanese war crimes against China as well. Laugh it up.



Okay?......

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## Chinese-Dragon

kamakazi attack said:


> why not, while china spend billions on its security and leaving hundreds million of her citizens eating bamboo shoots and making cheap plastic toys, japan is savy enough just like canada to get our protection for free to a certain degree.
> 
> the last time i've check everybody in japan and canada are chillaxing and enjoying life all because of our hard working chinese slaves who work 24/7 to make our life a lot easier,,, though most breaks easily...hell its ONLY a dollar
> 
> but the way bough my iphone for $650... your very welcome for the 3 cents that I 've contributed to china for building my phone, the rest of $649.97 goes to your steve jobs...aka your american master


 
LOL. 

1991: America tells Japan to revalue their currency upwards. Japan does it, and their economy crashes. Still haven't recovered.

2010: America tells China to revalue their currency upwards. China tells America that we'll do what we want. Even then, the American government still refuses to label China as a currency manipulator.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> When you run this forum you can tell me where to post and when. Until then shut your trap. Hey if you can pass magnanimous (*choke*) comments on indian politics, politicians with no clue whatsoever, i can too.


 
OK sure, and I say this with the greatest of respect.

Please go back to India, and tell your politicians to stop stealing trillions of dollars, and hiding them in Swiss bank accounts.

Then maybe you wouldn't rank below Africa, in terms of both poverty and starvation.

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## Mech

Kamikaze dude is clearely flame baiting....you should know better than to respond to trolls.


----------



## Brotherhood

Its always amusing to see some Indians kissing the wrong butt a faked jap eye who know nothing about Japan, want nothing to do with Japan but claimed to be a japanese.
Let me put some money in your pocket regarding Japanese:
(1) People thought Indians are so obsessed with skin colour? they are not even close comparing with Japanese, anything darker then light yellow are considered inferior and Indians......one of my friend's grandfather who serve in WW2 told him that Japanese soldiers rather die than surrender to a black American soldier.... you get the picture?
(2) Japanese are also super obsessed with cleaningness and personal hygiene and Indians.......?

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## tanlixiang28776

I'm leaving have a nice conversation.


----------



## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

Chinese-Dragon said:


> OK sure, and I say this with the greatest of respect.
> 
> Please go back to India, and tell your politicians to stop stealing trillions of dollars, and hiding them in Swiss bank accounts.
> 
> Then maybe you wouldn't rank below Africa, in terms of both poverty and starvation.


 
Oh come on.. now you're flaming about everything..  

We know what goes on thanks to our "hyped media" and whistleblower articles. 

I think you need some fresh air.


----------



## Mech

Chinese-Dragon said:


> OK sure, and I say this with the greatest of respect.
> 
> Please go back to India, and tell your politicians to stop stealing trillions of dollars, and hiding them in Swiss bank accounts.
> 
> Then maybe you wouldn't rank below Africa, in terms of both poverty and starvation.


 
Insecure much? What does poverty in india has to do with this thread or topic? I dont normally take the flame bait...so i'll just ignore that 'oh so tempting' offer of yours....

Fine. I'll go tell the politicians to stop stealing.....happy now...sunshine?


----------



## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

Brotherhood said:


> Its always amusing to see some Indians kissing the wrong butt a faked jap eye who know nothing about Japan, want nothing to do with Japan but claimed to be a japanese.
> Let me put some money in your pocket regarding Japanese:
> (1) People thought Indians are so obsessed with skin colour? they are not even close comparing with Japanese, anything darker then light yellow are considered inferior and Indians......one of my friend's grandfather who serve in WW2 told him that Japanese soldiers rather die than surrender to a black American soldier.... you get the picture?
> (2) Japanese are also super obsessed with cleaningness and personal hygiene and Indians.......?


 
First off Indians are not obsessed with skin color. I've always preferred "darker" girls than lighter for some reason. It's always pakistanis bringing up that fair and lovely cream thing.. as if they don't have it in pakistan. It's a colonial mentality to some people. 

And Indians as a whole being unhygienic.. really? you're gonna blame a whole nation because of what? The Ganges and the lack of toilets due to high poverty and increasing population?

Yes we're not perfect. But at least we're making something out of ourselves. It may be slowly. But we're improving nonetheless.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> Fine. I'll go tell the politicians to stop stealing.....happy now...sunshine?


 
I guess you are still pissed over the fact that I said "Modi is a strong guy".

Doesn't change the fact that India has more poverty than Africa though.


----------



## Mech

Brotherhood said:


> Its always amusing to see some Indians kissing the wrong butt a faked jap eye who know nothing abo................blah blah blah..............ersonal hygiene and Indians.......?


 
No one agrees with the troll 'kamikaze'....i think we already established that. All i did was ask one simple innocous question and y'all get you panties in a knot.....


----------



## no_name

I doubt Kamakazi is Japanese but whatever guys have your fun.


----------



## Mech

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I guess you are still pissed over the fact that I said "Modi is a strong guy".
> 
> Doesn't change the fact that India has more poverty than Africa though.


 
Again...how is 'modi' relevant in this thread?  . And yeah india has 'more poor than africa!'. Whats your point?

I gotta hand it to you though....you try so very hard....


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> Again...how is 'modi' relevant in this thread?  . And yeah india has 'more poor than africa!'. Whats your point?
> 
> I gotta hand it to you though....you try so very hard....


 
And you try even harder, considering that you're an Indian trying to butt in on a conversation about China and Japan, in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with India.

Not surprising at all though.


----------



## Mech

Chinese-Dragon said:


> And you try even harder, considering that you're an Indian trying to butt in on a conversation about China and Japan, in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with India.


 
This thread has nothing to do with "Japan" either.  You really ought to read what you write . Im an indian member 'contributing' to a thread about christianity and china (which im sho' you'd agree, is a subject for general discussion)


----------



## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

Mech said:


> Again...how is 'modi' relevant in this thread?  . And yeah india has 'more poor than africa!'. Whats your point?
> 
> I gotta hand it to you though....you try so very hard....


 
Leave him bro.. something must have ticked him off other than NDTV's video about china and India going to war, being called racist words, or the fact that he has something goin on in his life. Whatever the cause is he clearly has some hatred stirring up. 

However I do find it hilarious when chinese members on here talk about being called racist words when all they do is talk about how inferior we are to whites, poverty and lack of toilets, how unhygienic we are etc.


----------



## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

Chinese-Dragon said:


> And you try even harder, considering that you're an Indian trying to butt in on a conversation about China and Japan, in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with India.
> 
> Not surprising at all though.


 
Dude I've seem you interfere in an India-Pakistani thread so don't even start


----------



## no_name

What happened Chinese-Dragon? You used to be even slightly pro India when you first joined.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> This thread has nothing to do with "Japan" either.  You really ought to read what you write . Im an indian member 'contributing' to a thread about christianity and china (which im sue you'd agree, is a asubject for general discussion)



Laugh it up.

I have contributed since page 1 on this topic, regarding Christianity in China.

You're a Christian right?


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

no_name said:


> What happened Chinese-Dragon? You used to be even slightly pro India when you first joined.


 
Well, I've been called a "slanty-eyed chink" far too many times, and always by Indians. Or the more interesting variation, "slanty-eyed chink faggot".

Everyone has a limit, and I reached mine.

I don't like discrimination against individuals, but I can't say that I have anything positive to say about India as a country. 

They have a national obsession and hatred regarding their 1962 humilation. So they have willingly and deliberately, chosen us as their "boogeyman".


----------



## Mech

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Laugh it up.
> 
> I have contributed since page 1 on this topic, regarding Christianity in China.
> 
> You're a Christian right?


 
Hey, you gotta laugh when you gotta laugh. . And yes, im a christian...what are you driving at?


----------



## Mech

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Well, I've been called a "slanty-eyed chink" far too many times, and always by Indians. Or the more interesting variation, "slanty-eyed chink faggot".
> 
> Everyone has a limit, and I reached mine.
> 
> I don't like discrimination against individuals, but I can't say that I have anything positive to say about India as a country.
> 
> They have a national obsession and hatred regarding their 1962 humilation. So they have willingly and deliberately, chosen us as their "boogeyman".


 
I swear i have seen these exact set of words in the exact same sequence a gazillion times all over this forum. 

And all because a random guy (there is no way to identify the nationality btw) called you a 'slanty eyed chink'. Heres my advice....Get.over.it.....and move on....;if you can.

As for the rest, im really not even going to bother trying to convince you. You'll just bore us all again with that classy repetoire. *sigh*



PS- Stay classy dragon guy....

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## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> I swear i have seen these exact set of words in the exact same sequence a gazillion times all over this forum. And just because a random guy (there is no way to identify the nationality btw) called you a 'slanty eyed chink'. Heres my advice....Get.over.it.....and move on....if you can. As for the rest, im really not even going to bother trying to convince you. You'll just bore us all again with that classy repetoire. *sigh*


 
LOL, a "random guy"? What a joke.

The first twenty or so times I heard it, I thought it was just my bad luck. But it seems to be hard-wired into the psyche of Indians, and I have kept hearing it over and over again.

You guys hate China and Pakistan, it is your national obsession. Nothing to be done about it.

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## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

Mech said:


> I swear i have seen these exact set of words in the exact same sequence a gazillion times all over this forum. And just because a random guy (there is no way to identify the nationality btw) called you a 'slanty eyed chink'. Heres my advice....Get.over.it.....and move on....if you can. As for the rest, im really not even going to bother trying to convince you. You'll just bore us all again with that classy repetoire. *sigh*
> 
> 
> 
> PS- Stay classy dragon guy....


 

Lol honestly we can say Indians get the worst of it from pakistani members, chinese members, bangladeshi members, and some guy asc0000 something like that who claims he's from Canada.


----------



## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

Chinese-Dragon said:


> LOL, a "random guy"? What a joke.
> 
> The first twenty or so times I heard it, I thought it was just my bad luck. But it seems to be hard-wired into the psyche of Indians, and I have kept hearing it over and over again.
> 
> *You guys hate China and Pakistan*, it is your national obsession, and your humilation. Nothing to be done about it.


 
Hate is too strong of a word. I don't hate pakistanis nor do I hate chinese people. I dislike the pakistani government and some extremists but that doesn't mean I hate _every_ pakistani I meet. Same applies to China

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## tanlixiang28776

I'm back. 

This is going the same way as every other crappy thread.


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## Chinese-Dragon

|| |\| ||)) || /\\ |\| said:


> Lol honestly we can say Indians get the worst of it from pakistani members, chinese members, bangladeshi members, and some guy asc0000 something like that who claims he's from Canada.


 
Yeah, you're not exactly popular with the Chinese members, the Pakistani members, the Sri Lankan members, the Bangladeshi members, the Australian members, the British members, the Turkish members....

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## Mech

Chinese-Dragon said:


> LOL, a "random guy"? What a joke.
> 
> The first twenty or so times I heard it, I thought it was just my bad luck. But it seems to be hard-wired into the psyche of Indians, and I have kept hearing it over and over again.


Hey, dont look now...but guess what? Im an indian and *surprise!* , i didnt call you a 'slanty eyed chink' (lol wut?!)



> You guys hate China and Pakistan, it is your national obsession. Nothing to be done about it.


 
Mh-hmm..


----------



## tanlixiang28776

Just give up trying to convince each other. Its rather futile

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## Mech

tanlixiang28776 said:


> I'm back.
> 
> This is going the same way as every other crappy thread.


 
My point exactly. So try not to bring race into every thread k?

See ya later alligator!


----------



## DesiGuy

.........................................................................


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## Chinese-Dragon

tanlixiang28776 said:


> I'm back.
> 
> This is going the same way as every other crappy thread.


 
If you're looking for an intelligent discussion, I don't think this forum is a good idea


----------



## DesiGuy

Chinese-Dragon said:


> If you're looking for an intelligent discussion, I don't think this forum is a good idea


 


he is been here for long time now...........lol


----------



## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Yeah, you're not exactly popular with the Chinese members, the Pakistani members, the Sri Lankan members, the Bangladeshi members, the Australian members, the British members, the Turkish members....


 
Yup and the Nigerians and Mexicans and oh you forgot the Macedonians.  

Keep living in your hate filled world.

I'm out too..


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## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> Hey, dont look now...but guess what? Im an indian and *surprise!* , i didnt call you a 'slanty eyed chink' (lol wut?!)


 
Only because you're too afraid of the moderators to do it. 

The ones who actually come out and say it, at least they have some guts.


----------



## tanlixiang28776

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Only because you're too afraid of the moderators to do it.
> 
> The ones who actually come out and say it, at least they have some guts.


 
Just let it go.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Just let it go.


 
Fine, for the sake of forum civility if nothing else.


----------



## Mech

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Only because you're too afraid of the moderators to do it.
> 
> The ones who actually come out and say it, at least they have some guts.


 
Oh wow dude........really?! Not once in my life have i ever been accused of harbouring racist mentality. Way too many racists have been personally nuked by me in real world and the forum ( well i try anyway).....

So basically what youre implying is that....being an indian entitles me to abuse you, a chinese guy racially?! 

Maybe its time to get back to the physio and treat that butthurt you recieved ages ago.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> Maybe its time to get back to the physio and treat that butthurt you recieved ages ago.


 
Well done.


----------



## no_name

Let it go.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Rig Vedic

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I am responding to this guy attacking us, but as an Indian member here, you obviously hate anything Chinese. So really, no surprise at all.
> 
> I've seen Indians laughing about Japanese war crimes against China as well. Laugh it up.



People have multiple identities. But there is no need to assume that something that someone posts is necessarily represents an Indian POV.


----------



## Rig Vedic

Japan is an interesting case. A free and open society, with a very low level of Christianization. 

A simplistic analysis is not helpful.

Humans have an innate tendency towards spirituality. It is interesting to ask why that should be the case, but I will not go into that question now. Suppression, as is sometimes attempted by Communist nations, is not the correct way.

Osama bin Laden would say that unless you accept Muhammad as the last prophet, you are going to burn in hell. Someone like Mech may say that you are headed for the same place unless you accept that "Jesus is the savior". Both of them represent a very primitive state of spiritual development. 

Eastern philosophies, which have a more scientific approach to spirituality, provide an alternative, which is becoming increasingly popular, even in in the West.


----------



## Mech

^ Real smooth bro, you made me realize i'm just like osama! Thank you for opening my eyes.


----------



## below_freezing

Brotherhood said:


> Its always amusing to see some Indians kissing the wrong butt a faked jap eye who know nothing about Japan, want nothing to do with Japan but claimed to be a japanese.
> Let me put some money in your pocket regarding Japanese:
> (1) People thought Indians are so obsessed with skin colour? they are not even close comparing with Japanese, anything darker then light yellow are considered inferior and Indians......one of my friend's grandfather who serve in WW2 told him that Japanese soldiers rather die than surrender to a black American soldier.... you get the picture?
> (2) Japanese are also super obsessed with cleaningness and personal hygiene and Indians.......?


 
Japanese are some of the most racist, closeminded people in the world. What is especially funny is their slave mentality. They are perfectly fine to get 3 black * stuffed down their * because in their mind, they're far inferior to Americans, including blacks. They still don't know about apologizing. Jap anese apologize alot on the surface but that's only because their society forces them to. Without the guilt of society, they're little more than apes.

Most of the world knows a few words of Japanese. But they're mostly limited to SUGOI~ SUGOI!~ YAMADIE~ YAMADIE~ ITAI~ ITAIYO!~. And they have no shame.

During the earthquake, not 1 Japanese driver volunteered to drive the aid trucks to the affected region. Jap anese don't even care about Jap anese, why should anyone else care? If someone decides to nuke them tomorrow and can scare off the US from responding, well, guess Japan just vanished for free.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> Japanese are some of the most racist, closeminded people in the world. What is especially funny is their slave mentality. They are perfectly fine to get 3 black * stuffed down their * because in their mind, they're far inferior to Americans, including blacks. They still don't know about apologizing. Jap anese apologize alot on the surface but that's only because their society forces them to. Without the guilt of society, they're little more than apes.
> 
> Most of the world knows a few words of Japanese. But they're mostly limited to SUGOI~ SUGOI!~ YAMADIE~ YAMADIE~ ITAI~ ITAIYO!~. And they have no shame.
> 
> During the earthquake, not 1 Japanese driver volunteered to drive the aid trucks to the affected region. Jap anese don't even care about Jap anese, why should anyone else care? If someone decides to nuke them tomorrow and can scare off the US from responding, well, guess Japan just vanished for free.


 
As all i see in today's Japan, they are just bunch of anime freaks, nothing more.


----------



## Mech

Get back to topic. Japan does not feature in the title or opening post.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> Get back to topic. Japan does not feature in the topic.


 
I'm interested, how did you become a Christian in India?


----------



## below_freezing

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As all i see in today's Japan, they are just bunch of anime freaks, nothing more.


 
The world knows Japan, because of AV. The world knows Japanese, because of &#33487;&#37101;&#20381;~ &#33487;&#37101;&#20381;~ &#20122;&#40635;&#36300;~ &#20381;&#27513;~ &#20381;&#27513;&#21727;~&#12290; And they have no shame of it.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> The world knows Japan, because of AV. The world knows Japanese, because of &#33487;&#37101;&#20381;~ &#33487;&#37101;&#20381;~ &#20122;&#40635;&#36300;~ &#20381;&#27513;~ &#20381;&#27513;&#21727;~&#12290; And they have no shame of it.


 
True, since their AV movies are really popular among the Chinese netizens.


----------



## Mech

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I'm interested, how did you become a Christian in India?


 
..........i was born into a traditionally christian family. We've been christians as far back as we can possibly trace........

Is it so hard to accept there are 'christians' in india?


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> Is it so hard to accept there are 'christians' in india?


 
Not really, why would it be hard.

Is this the reason that you are so opposed to the BJP party?


----------



## Mech

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Not really, why would it be hard.
> 
> Is this the reason that you are so opposed to the BJP party?


 
I oppose the BJP due to a number of reasons. 

1. They are a bunch of pricks.
2. Communal bigots.
3. Warmongering.
4. Racist. 
5. Bunch of pricks.
6. Bunch of pricks.


----------



## KS

Brotherhood said:


> Its always amusing to see some *Indians kissing the wrong butt a faked jap eye* who know nothing about Japan, want nothing to do with Japan but claimed to be a japanese.
> Let me put some money in your pocket regarding Japanese:
> (1) People thought Indians are so obsessed with skin colour? they are not even close comparing with Japanese, anything darker then light yellow are considered inferior and Indians......one of my friend's grandfather who serve in WW2 told him that Japanese soldiers rather die than surrender to a black American soldier.... you get the picture?
> (2) Japanese are also super obsessed with cleaningness and personal hygiene and Indians.......?


 
Son go back to ganging up on the lonely Jap without mentioning India as the only thing the other poster asked was why Japs and Chinese always speak about anals,race,balls and what not ?

As for your smartassery in mentioning Cleanliness we have plenty to speak about China too.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Mech said:


> I oppose the BJP due to a number of reasons.
> 
> 1. They are a bunch of pricks.
> 2. Communal bigots.
> 3. Warmongering.
> 4. Racist.
> 5. Bunch of pricks.
> 6. Bunch of pricks.


 
This doesn't seem to be a popular opinion on these forums.



Karthic Sri said:


> Son go back to ganging up on the lonely Jap without mentioning India as the only thing the other poster asked was why Japs and Chinese always speak about anals,race,balls and what not ?


 
He's not actually Japanese, just another false-flag.

He can't even spell his username "Kamikaze" correctly.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

Oh jeez lets keep the Indian political parties out of this, there's a section for that already.........


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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> This doesn't seem to be a popular opinion on these forums.
> 
> 
> 
> He's not actually Japanese, just another false-flag.
> 
> He can't even spell his username "Kamikaze" correctly.


 
Yeah, i don't think any Japanese person would be happy to be called as Kamikazer.


----------



## Mech

Chinese-Dragon said:


> This doesn't seem to be a popular opinion on these forums.


These forums hardly represent the popular opinion.


----------



## KS

Chinese-Dragon said:


> He's not actually Japanese, just another false-flag.
> 
> He can't even spell his username "Kamikaze" correctly.


 
See I couldn't care less if he was a false flag or a direct descendant of Gen.Tojo. Both sides continue with your fun.

Just leave India out and if you don't want to answer why such a low level discussion from both side just ignore.




Rig Vedic said:


> Japan is an interesting case. A free and open society, with a very low level of Christianization.
> 
> A simplistic analysis is not helpful.
> 
> Humans have an innate tendency towards spirituality. It is interesting to ask why that should be the case, but I will not go into that question now. Suppression, as is sometimes attempted by Communist nations, is not the correct way.
> 
> Osama bin Laden would say that unless you accept Muhammad as the last prophet, you are going to burn in hell. Someone like Mech may say that you are headed for the same place unless you accept that "Jesus is the savior". Both of them represent a very primitive state of spiritual development.
> 
> *Eastern philosophies, which have a more scientific approach to spirituality,* provide an alternative, which is becoming increasingly popular, even in in the West.


 
Well said bro.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Gold1010

Syama Ayas said:


> Is there a concern that Christianity/foreign religion might affect the homogeneity of China?


 
Well they did ban Time travel in TV because they dont like the idea of changing historical events in fiction Those damn time travelers must be shot ! as the wording goes.

China Decides to Ban Time Travel - Techland - TIME.com

Very weird , whats the chinese on this forum views on that?


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Aussie4ever said:


> Very weird , whats the chinese on this forum views on that?


 
There is already a thread on that in the China defence section.

I personally don't really have much of an opinion on that matter. Time traveling is really overdone though.

Also, your article already answers the question:



> The idea of time-travel has soared in popularity recently, and it seems like the authorities have just gotten sick of it. Common themes revolve around protagonists going back to ancient times, with script writers often taking liberties with plots and events. Even worse than just being an annoyance, some people fear a real disrespect for China's history.
> 
> The decision was made earlier this month, with the country's State Administration for Radio, Film & Television stating that "The producers and writers are treating the serious history in a frivolous way, which should by no means be encouraged anymore."

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## below_freezing

Karthic Sri said:


> Son go back to ganging up on the lonely Jap without mentioning India as the only thing the other poster asked was why Japs and Chinese always speak about anals,race,balls and what not ?
> 
> As for your smartassery in mentioning Cleanliness we have plenty to speak about China too.


 
Why do you never tell Jackass to f*k off in China related threads when you complain of dragging India? Do Indian racists stick together?


----------



## KS

below_freezing said:


> Why do you never tell Jackass to f*k off in China related threads when you complain of dragging India? Do Indian racists stick together?


 
If you have a problem take it up with him, deal with him or if you are unable to do that report to the Mods. But I don't know if there is a rule that Indians should not post in China topics.

I can speak only for me and in this case the only question asked was why is the discussion b/n Chinese and japanese always about anals,balls,rape,neutering,****,race etc .

Or is that you guys think that Chinese should never even be questioned or asked why ?

And yeah FYI you guys don't pass of as much humble either.


----------



## Mech

below_freezing said:


> Why do you never tell Jackass to f*k off in China related threads when you complain of dragging India? Do Indian racists stick together?


 
dude..i did not mention india in the thread. You just hate the fact that and 'indian' responded. When you run your own forum, you can make your own racist policies. Otherwise shut your trap and and dont get your panties in a knot.

And how does japan feature in the thread? None of the indians, as far as i can see have displayed racist attitudes. You morons always end up talking/abusing about race in almost every thread. Grow out of that insecurity.


----------



## below_freezing

No, you think we talk about race, but in fact, we are talking about the shame of internet samurai.

Please don't project your own feelings onto others.

This forum has many smart racists. They will bite you, and then claim to be bitten, what's worse is they know no shame.


----------



## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

below_freezing said:


> No, you think we talk about race, but in fact, we are talking about the shame of internet samurai.
> 
> Please don't project your own feelings onto others.
> 
> This forum has many smart racists. They will bite you, and then claim to be bitten, what's worse is they know no shame.


 
With all due respect, you guys aren't angels either. And below_freezing I also consider your posts of quality and a respectable member along with few others here.


----------



## Mech

below_freezing said:


> No, you think we talk about race, but in fact, we are talking about the shame of internet samurai.
> 
> Please don't project your own feelings onto others.
> 
> This forum has many smart racists. They will bite you, and then claim to be bitten, what's worse is they know no shame.


 
oh hey there hypocrite. You guys have been going on about topic ranging from anime and skin color to anal sex, butt, and animals. Ofcourse! You guys were not talking about race...silly me  It was the "shame" of internet samurai....-.-

Reactions: Like Like:
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## below_freezing

|| |\| ||)) || /\\ |\| said:


> With all due respect, you guys aren't angels either. And below_freezing I also consider your posts of quality and a respectable member along with few others here.


 
When I first used the internet, I was scared of the way people talk. Their comments seem very aggressive. However, as time went on, we all get used to this.


----------



## || |\| ||)) || /\\ |\|

below_freezing said:


> When I first used the internet, I was scared of the way people talk. Their comments seem very aggressive. However, as time went on, we all get used to this.


 
Yeah but there's also a limit of decency.. and frankly we've got idiots from all corners abusing the privilege


----------



## Burnz

*The Biblical solution to ALL World Problems: Burn EVERY Chinese!!*

Ever since Obama started wrecking America we have been piling up one disaster after another. Our economy is tanking, oil prices are sky high, we have huge problems with the environment and we have a serious energy problem.

*Is there a solution to all our problems?*
As always there is only one place we have to look for solutions to all our problems: The 1611 Authorized King James Version of the Holy Bible. Using the completely biblically correct approach of burning everyone in China will solve all our problems and will also greatly please our LORD and Savior® Jesus Christ!
*
Does the Holy Bible really tell us to burn everyone in China!?*
It is well known that the Chinese have no morals and have sex with everything and everyone. God demands them to be burned for that: Leviticus 20:14 "And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you." Genesis 38:24 "And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt."

Also God demands we burn everyone who does not believe in Him, which clearly includes everyone in China: John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

So clearly 100% of all people in China deserve to be burned! God demands it! Psalm 140:10 "Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again."
*
How does one burn everyone in China?*
*In the past a great leader, clearly guided by the Holy Bible, created factories to burn millions of people.* Fortunately for us the designs are still available! *It will take some good old fashioned American engineering to scale this up to 1.3 billion people, but I have no doubt that we can achieve this.*

Does this really solve all our problems?
If everyone in China is dead, they will no longer compete with our economy! China buys huge quantities of oil, so once they stop doing that, oil prices will plummet to acceptable levels! *Burning a single Chinese will give you about 300,000 kJ of energy. *So burning of all of them will solve all our energy problems! And since the *Chinese are the biggest polluters on the planet, burning all of them will be great for the environment!*

*So my car can run on dead Chinese people?*
Well, they don't actually have to be dead yet to serve as fuel for your car, but yes they can. Good old fashioned American steam engine technology can be used for this. *Simply shove the Chinese people in the firebox of your car!* Watching them try to escape will be great entertainment for your children! Much better than having them play those soul destroying games on a dreadful Gameboy.


The Biblical solution to ALL World Problems: Burn EVERY Chinese!! - The Landover Baptist Church Forum

This is what the Baptist think of Chinese that all Chinese should be burnt if they do no convert to Christianity.

It willl be safe if you guys become a Christian Nation.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

^^^ That is a parody website.

Landover Baptist Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Burnz said:


> *The Biblical solution to ALL World Problems: Burn EVERY Chinese!!*
> 
> Ever since Obama started wrecking America we have been piling up one disaster after another. Our economy is tanking, oil prices are sky high, we have huge problems with the environment and we have a serious energy problem.
> 
> *Is there a solution to all our problems?*
> As always there is only one place we have to look for solutions to all our problems: The 1611 Authorized King James Version of the Holy Bible. Using the completely biblically correct approach of burning everyone in China will solve all our problems and will also greatly please our LORD and Savior® Jesus Christ!
> *
> Does the Holy Bible really tell us to burn everyone in China!?*
> It is well known that the Chinese have no morals and have sex with everything and everyone. God demands them to be burned for that: Leviticus 20:14 "And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you." Genesis 38:24 "And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt."
> 
> Also God demands we burn everyone who does not believe in Him, which clearly includes everyone in China: John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
> 
> So clearly 100% of all people in China deserve to be burned! God demands it! Psalm 140:10 "Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again."
> *
> How does one burn everyone in China?*
> *In the past a great leader, clearly guided by the Holy Bible, created factories to burn millions of people.* Fortunately for us the designs are still available! *It will take some good old fashioned American engineering to scale this up to 1.3 billion people, but I have no doubt that we can achieve this.*
> 
> Does this really solve all our problems?
> If everyone in China is dead, they will no longer compete with our economy! China buys huge quantities of oil, so once they stop doing that, oil prices will plummet to acceptable levels! *Burning a single Chinese will give you about 300,000 kJ of energy. *So burning of all of them will solve all our energy problems! And since the *Chinese are the biggest polluters on the planet, burning all of them will be great for the environment!*
> 
> *So my car can run on dead Chinese people?*
> Well, they don't actually have to be dead yet to serve as fuel for your car, but yes they can. Good old fashioned American steam engine technology can be used for this. *Simply shove the Chinese people in the firebox of your car!* Watching them try to escape will be great entertainment for your children! Much better than having them play those soul destroying games on a dreadful Gameboy.
> 
> 
> The Biblical solution to ALL World Problems: Burn EVERY Chinese!! - The Landover Baptist Church Forum
> 
> This is what the Baptist think of Chinese that all Chinese should be burnt if they do no convert to Christianity.
> 
> It willl be safe if you guys become a Christian Nation.


 
Lol, nice to see a discussion forum that makes stormfront.org looks like a peaceful place.

As i said before, those Christian fanatics are far more freaking dangerous than the Pan-Aryanism alliance like stormfront, at least most folks in stormfront only talk about how to preserve their racial purity, yet these freaks are planning the genocide acts against China and India.

This is how peaceful Christianity really is, right?


----------



## S-2

Did you read the above link offered by Chinese-Dragon?

It may be helpful to do so.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

S-2 said:


> Did you read the above link offered by Chinese-Dragon?
> 
> It may be helpful to do so.


 
It doesn't matter, that site is just full of trashes.

The real racists can pretend to be sarcastic.

BTW, it is a good site to support my point of bashing the Christianity.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## below_freezing

Burnz said:


> *The Biblical solution to ALL World Problems: Burn EVERY Chinese!!*
> 
> Ever since Obama started wrecking America we have been piling up one disaster after another. Our economy is tanking, oil prices are sky high, we have huge problems with the environment and we have a serious energy problem.
> 
> *Is there a solution to all our problems?*
> As always there is only one place we have to look for solutions to all our problems: The 1611 Authorized King James Version of the Holy Bible. Using the completely biblically correct approach of burning everyone in China will solve all our problems and will also greatly please our LORD and Savior® Jesus Christ!
> *
> Does the Holy Bible really tell us to burn everyone in China!?*
> It is well known that the Chinese have no morals and have sex with everything and everyone. God demands them to be burned for that: Leviticus 20:14 "And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you." Genesis 38:24 "And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt."
> 
> Also God demands we burn everyone who does not believe in Him, which clearly includes everyone in China: John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
> 
> So clearly 100% of all people in China deserve to be burned! God demands it! Psalm 140:10 "Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again."
> *
> How does one burn everyone in China?*
> *In the past a great leader, clearly guided by the Holy Bible, created factories to burn millions of people.* Fortunately for us the designs are still available! *It will take some good old fashioned American engineering to scale this up to 1.3 billion people, but I have no doubt that we can achieve this.*
> 
> Does this really solve all our problems?
> If everyone in China is dead, they will no longer compete with our economy! China buys huge quantities of oil, so once they stop doing that, oil prices will plummet to acceptable levels! *Burning a single Chinese will give you about 300,000 kJ of energy. *So burning of all of them will solve all our energy problems! And since the *Chinese are the biggest polluters on the planet, burning all of them will be great for the environment!*
> 
> *So my car can run on dead Chinese people?*
> Well, they don't actually have to be dead yet to serve as fuel for your car, but yes they can. Good old fashioned American steam engine technology can be used for this. *Simply shove the Chinese people in the firebox of your car!* Watching them try to escape will be great entertainment for your children! Much better than having them play those soul destroying games on a dreadful Gameboy.
> 
> 
> The Biblical solution to ALL World Problems: Burn EVERY Chinese!! - The Landover Baptist Church Forum
> 
> This is what the Baptist think of Chinese that all Chinese should be burnt if they do no convert to Christianity.
> 
> It willl be safe if you guys become a Christian Nation.


 
If they try it'll take "good old fashioned american engineering" to rebuild their nuclear rubble, if there are any surviving engineers. Our announced arsenal alone can vaporize 60% of the US population in seconds, not counting unassembled weapons that will be assembled in times of war.

Also, thank you for showing that racism against Chinese is perfectly acceptable in the West.

If they said this about blacks or Jews what would happen?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> If they try it'll take "good old fashioned american engineering" to rebuild their nuclear rubble, if there are any surviving engineers. Our announced arsenal alone can vaporize 60% of the US population in seconds, not counting unassembled weapons that will be assembled in times of war.
> 
> Also, thank you for showing that racism against Chinese is perfectly acceptable in the West.
> 
> If they said this about blacks or Jews what would happen?


 
It doesn't matter, as they are destined to become the ghetto in the next 50 years.

Even we aren't really religious, but we do believe the Karma.

So better not to be always wicked bastard, otherwise they will pay their Karmic debt.

Too bad the Christians don't understand this.


----------



## below_freezing

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It doesn't matter, as they are destined to become the ghetto in the next 50 years.
> 
> Even we aren't really religious, but we do believe the Karma.
> 
> So better not to be always wicked bastard, otherwise they will pay their Karmic debt.
> 
> Too bad the Christians don't understand this.


 
Whites will pay for their crimes against humanity. Of course, we must not wait for Karma. We should start adding more long range delivery vehicles to our nuclear arsenal immediately. Whites are indeed planning a genocide on China, as well as Indians.

If any Indians actually read the website, some white racists were also calling for Indians to be exterminated. Why are you siding with them?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> Whites will pay for their crimes against humanity. Of course, we must not wait for Karma. We should start adding more long range delivery vehicles to our nuclear arsenal immediately. Whites are indeed planning a genocide on China, as well as Indians.
> 
> If any Indians actually read the website, some white racists were also calling for Indians to be exterminated. Why are you siding with them?


 
To strengthen our second strike capability by adding more sophisticated SSBNs and strategic bombers.

Furthermore, we are starting build up the missile defence system with laser weaponry in order to halve the threat of the US nuclear arsenal.

This is what PLA is going to accomplish at the end of this decade.

BTW, never TRUST the whiteys.

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## below_freezing

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> To strengthen our second strike capability by adding more sophisticated SSBNs and strategic bombers.
> 
> Furthermore, we are starting build up the missile defence system with laser weaponry in order to halve the threat of the US nuclear arsenal.
> 
> This is what PLA is going to accomplish at the end of this decade.
> 
> BTW, never TRUST the whiteys.


 
Strategic bombers are a less effective investment. SLBMs give you the most probability of survival * killing efficiency against Western whites.

I have nothing against Slavs btw who are Eastern whites. The dividing line is poland.


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## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> Strategic bombers are a less effective investment. SLBMs give you the most probability of survival * killing efficiency against Western whites.
> 
> I have nothing against Slavs btw who are Eastern whites. The dividing line is poland.


 
Yeah, but PLA isn't going to let the strategic bomber null in its inventory.

With 8000km ranged cruise missile, the stealth bomber can perhaps carry up to 20-30 megaton nukes.

PLA is going to make sure land/air/sea/space all gonna have the second strike capability.

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## below_freezing

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yeah, but PLA isn't going to let the strategic bomber null its inventory.
> 
> With 8000km ranged cruise missile, the stealth bomber can perhaps carry up to 20-30 megaton nukes.
> 
> PLA is going to make sure land/air/sea/space all gonna have the second strike capability.


 
It is also possible to disguise nukes as satellites. When wartime comes, simply program the satellite to reenter on simultaneous loss of command from 6-redundant transmitters in China spanning Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Chengdu, Lanzhou and Wuhan. If all signals are lost, it probably means we have lost a nuclear war.


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## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> It is also possible to disguise nukes as satellites. When wartime comes, simply program the satellite to reenter on simultaneous loss of command from 6-redundant transmitters in China spanning Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Chengdu, Lanzhou and Wuhan. If all signals are lost, it probably means we have lost a nuclear war.


 
The supercomputer is very efficient for the simulation of the nuclear war.

And also make sure that we can destroy all enemy's global satellites, meanwhile protecting our own satellites from being destroyed.

Since Beidou flying at a higher attitude, and we can improve the orbit switching capability to make sure it has the higher chance of survival against the enemy's attack.

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## ptldM3

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It doesn't matter, that site is just full of trashes.
> 
> The real racists can pretend to be sarcastic.
> 
> BTW, *it is a good site to support my point of bashing the Christianity*.




Looks like your superior Chinese IQ failed to realize that it is an anti Christian site, made by people just like yourself. And please do grow up, you come off as a frustrated young man with no life experience that holds a grudge against whites and Christians even though you live in a mostly white and Christian nation.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> To strengthen our second strike capability by adding more sophisticated SSBNs and strategic bombers.
> 
> Furthermore, we are starting build up the missile defence system with laser weaponry in order to halve the threat of the US nuclear arsenal.
> 
> This is what PLA is going to accomplish at the end of this decade.
> 
> BTW, *never TRUST the whiteys*.




And if someone said, 'never trust the yellow man' you would probably have a spasm and cry foul. The above comment is not surprising, Ive seen much worse from you. People that are openly racists and than cry foul when some else gives them a taste of their own medicine are often said to have a chemical imbalance.

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## below_freezing

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The supercomputer is very efficient for the simulation of the nuclear war.
> 
> And also make sure that we can destroy all enemy's global satellites, meanwhile protecting our own satellites from being destroyed.
> 
> Since Beidou flying at a higher attitude, and we can improve the orbit switching capability to make sure it has the higher chance of survival against the enemy's attack.


 
Agreed. With a supercomputer, we should also be able to account for radiation, diffusion and convection effects that drive radioactivity. With strategic placement, all western whites could vanish from history forever. China will still survive, however, due to our underground tunnels able to hide 10 million, another 200 million surviving aboveground even now and possibly 800 million with laser/railgun ABM, and mountain plane shelters. We can come out of the nuclear war with a full military ready to take on the remanants of western whites and fully drive them extinct.

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## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> Agreed. With a supercomputer, we should also be able to account for radiation, diffusion and convection effects that drive radioactivity. With strategic placement, all western whites could vanish from history forever. China will still survive, however, due to our underground tunnels able to hide 10 million, another 200 million surviving aboveground even now and possibly 800 million with laser/railgun ABM, and mountain plane shelters. We can come out of the nuclear war with a full military ready to take on the remanants of western whites and fully drive them extinct.


 
We are not some uber racist like them who conducted countless genocides in the history.

We won't extinguish their race, but we have to make sure we can save the humanity from the evil.

Anyway the white americans will end up all mixed with the growing Latino population, this is not our problem.


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## ChineseTiger1986

ptldM3 said:


> *And if someone said, 'never trust the yellow man' you would probably have a spasm and cry foul.* The above comment is not surprising, I&#8217;ve seen much worse from you. People that are openly racists and than cry foul when some else gives them a taste of their own medicine are often said to have a chemical imbalance.


 
Lol, i don't give a damn, and when since the Russians trust us?

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## below_freezing

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Lol, i don't give a damn, and when since the Russians trust us?


 
Russia and China are partners, but not allies. We won't actively be hostile to each other, but we also will only cooperate when it benefits our respective interests.

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## ChineseTiger1986

below_freezing said:


> Russia and China are partners, but not allies. We won't actively be hostile to each other, but we also will only cooperate when it benefits our respective interests.


 
True, we are just alert with them, it doesn't necessarily mean the opening hostility.

I am sure it is the same from the Russian side.

The only more pure friendship between countries today is China and Pakistan.


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## below_freezing

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> True, we are just alert with them, it doesn't necessarily mean the opening hostility.
> 
> I am sure it is the same from the Russian side.
> 
> The only more pure friendship between countries today is China and Pakistan.


 
Agreed. The only relationship in the world based upon mutual respect. What would be great is, once Pakistan cracks down on Taliban permanently, that we can have visa free visitor agreement between China and Pakistan, that eventually spreads to all of mainland Asia.

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## ptldM3

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Lol, i don't give a damn, and when since the Russians trust us?




I am Russian, and there are a number of people I don't trust but nationality has nothing to do with it, if someone is know to be untrustworthy than I will be cautious when around them; a person can only be judged by their character and not origin.


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## ChineseTiger1986

ptldM3 said:


> I am Russian, and there are a number of people I don't trust but nationality has nothing to do with it, if someone is know to be untrustworthy than I will be cautious when around them; a person can only be judged by their character and not origin.


 
Yeah, the friendship can sometimes grow strong between the individuals of different nationalities, but the diplomacy between nations isn't the same case.

And i am sure US does trust UK and Israel more than anyone else is the fact.


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## huzihaidao12

Can you tell me what you are talking about?


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## below_freezing

huzihaidao12 said:


> Can you tell me what you are talking about?


 
Americans talking about genocide in China. But that will never happen. We will inflict nuclear holocaust on these pathetic scum before a single US boot touches Chinese soil.


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## StingRoy

China Detains Church Members at Easter Services

BEIJING  The authorities stepped up a three-week campaign against an underground Christian church on Sunday, detaining hundreds of congregants in their homes and taking at least 36 others into custody after they tried to hold Easter services in a public square, church members and officials said.

The church, Shouwang, an evangelical Protestant congregation that was evicted from its rented quarters this month, has been at loggerheads with the government since announcing plans to gather outdoors rather than disband or return to worshiping in private homes. The authorities have repeatedly stymied Shouwangs efforts to lease or buy space for its 1,000-member congregation, one of the largest and most prominent so-called house churches in the capital.

The Chinese Communist Party tightly manages religious activity, requiring the faithful to join state-run churches, mosques or Buddhist temples. Until the most recent crackdown on Shouwang and a handful of other unregistered churches, such congregations had enjoyed relatively wide latitude from the authorities.

Founded 18 years ago in a private home, Shouwang insists that it has no political agenda and seeks only government forbearance that would allow it to occupy the $4 million space it bought in 2009. Church leaders say the owner of the space, under pressure from the authorities, has refused to hand over the keys. Last week, a Foreign Ministry spokesman defended the governments stance, saying that Shouwang had no legal basis to operate.

Most of those seized on Sunday morning were taken away in buses after they showed up at the plaza, which is not far from several of the countrys top universities. Members of a CNN crew said that they were briefly detained and that their credentials were confiscated before they were turned away by the police. 

Several church members, all of whom requested anonymity for fear of provoking the authorities, say they were confined to their homes by security agents, some as early as Thursday, to keep them from joining Easter services. ChinaAid, a Christian advocacy group based in the United States, put the number of those under temporary house arrest at 500, although that figure could not be immediately verified. On Monday morning, church officials said that 16 of those detained were still in police custody.

On Sunday night, Shouwangs Web site was blocked and its chief pastor, Jin Tianming, could not be reached by phone. In an e-mail circulated last week, church leaders asked parishioners to make their way to an elevated walkway where services were supposed to take place, even though they would probably be intercepted by the police.

The message took note of the Easter holiday and likened the congregations struggles to those endured by Jesus Christ.

We pray especially for those brothers and sisters who in the past week or two have already been forced to move or leave their jobs, it said. We ask God to remember the price they have paid for holding on to their faith and ask him to take care of their families and their daily life needs.


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## Chinese-Dragon

StingRoy said:


> BEIJING  The authorities stepped up a three-week campaign against an underground Christian church on Sunday, detaining hundreds of congregants in their homes and taking at least 36 others into custody after they tried to hold Easter services in a public square, church members and officials said.


 
Like I said, if people join an illegal "underground" Churches, they are going to fall foul of the law.

It's not exactly difficult to find a proper Church.

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## StingRoy

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Like I said, if you join an illegal "underground" Church, you're going to fall foul of the law.
> 
> It's not exactly difficult to go to a proper Church, rather than an illegal one.


 
I understand that... just putting the news in the relevant thread. I know China has similar policies towards all religious practices, i.e. it has to be approved. Thing to note is the proliferation of the so called "underground" churches and the recent escalation on the crackdown.


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## below_freezing

StingRoy said:


> I understand that... just putting the news in the relevant thread. I know China has similar policies towards all religious practices, i.e. it has to be approved. Thing to note is the proliferation of the so called "underground" churches and the recent escalation on the crackdown.


 
I wonder what those Chinese Christians will say when it is revealed that Anglo Saxons want to initiate a holocaust on Chinese the same way Germans did to Jews.


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## Gold1010

below_freezing said:


> I wonder what those Chinese Christians will say when it is revealed that Anglo Saxons want to initiate a holocaust on Chinese the same way Germans did to Jews.


 
oh my arnt you the mind reader.


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## StingRoy

below_freezing said:


> I wonder what those Chinese Christians will say when it is revealed that Anglo Saxons want to initiate a holocaust on Chinese the same way Germans did to Jews.



Proof of the Anglo Saxon holocaust intentions? Don't go by the history, give current proof.


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## ptldM3

below_freezing said:


> I wonder what those Chinese Christians will say when it is revealed that Anglo Saxons want to initiate a holocaust on Chinese the same way Germans did to Jews.


 
This is getting hysterical


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## Tiki Tam Tam

below_freezing said:


> I wonder what those Chinese Christians will say when it is revealed that Anglo Saxons want to initiate a holocaust on Chinese the same way Germans did to Jews.



Why should the Anglo Saxons want to incinerate the Chinese in gas ovens?

It would not be cost effective.

Apart from being most horrendous.

For Christ's sake, let us not get wildly gruesome when given vent to frustrations!


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## Tiki Tam Tam

_Proper_ Church in China means a Church that is CCP controlled in every way including selection of priest, vetting sermons, monitoring the Christians attending, listening in to Confessions.

The relationship is between God and the man.

It is not a relationship between God and the Man as decided, guided and controlled by the CCP/ Chinese Govt!!

Therefore, a _proper_ Church of China is no Church, but an extension of the Party Propaganda.

To hear and see Party Propaganda, why waste time in a Church. Turn on the CCTV and watch it in the comfort of your house.


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## Gold1010

Watch out guys , we're gonna destroy you all lol.

I keed i keed.


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## gambit

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> _Proper_ Church in China means a Church that is CCP controlled in every way including selection of priest, vetting sermons, monitoring the Christians attending, listening in to Confessions.
> 
> The relationship is between God and the man.
> 
> It is not a relationship between God and the Man as decided, guided and controlled by the CCP/ Chinese Govt!!
> 
> *Therefore, a proper Church of China is no Church, but an extension of the Party Propaganda.
> 
> To hear and see Party Propaganda, why waste time in a Church. Turn on the CCTV and watch it in the comfort of your house.*


Rituals are helpful. We are surrounded by them. Look at the 'faithfuls' in a procession to view the body of 'saint' Mao. In time, the face on the crucifix will be that of Mao and who knows what the Sermon on the Mount will sound like. So yes, it is very possible that China will be a majority Christian country but not in the way we expect.


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## huzihaidao12

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> _Proper_ Church in China means a Church that is CCP controlled in every way including selection of priest, vetting sermons, monitoring the Christians attending, listening in to Confessions.
> 
> The relationship is between God and the man.
> 
> It is not a relationship between God and the Man as decided, guided and controlled by the CCP/ Chinese Govt!!
> 
> Therefore, a _proper_ Church of China is no Church, but an extension of the Party Propaganda.
> 
> To hear and see Party Propaganda, why waste time in a Church. Turn on the CCTV and watch it in the comfort of your house.


 
Your joke a bit clumsy, sometimes ignorance is not terrible, what is terrible? ignorance plus an easy to mouth, it would be very offensive.

By the way that this is also for you, gambit.

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## huzihaidao12

Any time, if you hear any political matter in the church,it would be a miracle, a church for all the religious teachings. sounds like some people have a personal experience, in fact, he is nothing. Bias cause paranoid, ignorance cause stupid. This is very suitable for some people.

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## below_freezing

StingRoy said:


> Proof of the Anglo Saxon holocaust intentions? Don't go by the history, give current proof.


 
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-largest-christian-nation-mid-century-53.html

Without repression of Anglo Saxon traitors, our fate will be the same as that of the Jews under Nazi Germany. Indians should watch out as well. 

When they came for the communists, I didn't speak out, because I wasn't a communist.
When they came for the Jews, I didn't speak out, because I wasn't a jew.
When they came for me, no one was left to speak out for me.


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## applesauce

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> _Proper_ Church in China means a Church that is CCP controlled in every way including selection of priest, vetting sermons, monitoring the Christians attending, listening in to Confessions.
> 
> The relationship is between God and the man.
> 
> It is not a relationship between God and the Man as decided, guided and controlled by the CCP/ Chinese Govt!!
> 
> Therefore, a _proper_ Church of China is no Church, but an extension of the Party Propaganda.
> 
> To hear and see Party Propaganda, why waste time in a Church. Turn on the CCTV and watch it in the comfort of your house.


 
i think you can say the exact same thing about the roman catholic church or any religion with "leaders" then

for instance

_Proper_ Church for roman Catholics means a Church that is vactican controlled in every way including selection of priest, vetting sermons, monitoring the Christians attending, listening in to Confessions.

The relationship is between God and the man.

It is not a relationship between God and the Man as decided, guided and controlled by the pope/ Vatican Govt!!

Therefore, a _proper_ Church of the Vatican is no Church, but an extension of the Vatican Propaganda.

To hear and see Vatican Propaganda, why waste time in a Church. Turn on the (religious channel?) and watch it in the comfort of your house.

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## Rig Vedic

applesauce said:


> i think you can say the exact same thing about the roman catholic church.



It's true that Churches are often used as political tools, apart from other serious problems like child abuse etc. But one has to distinguish between different situations. For example, the Russian Orthodox Church was a victim of the Bolshevik revolution.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

applesauce said:


> i think you can say the exact same thing about the roman catholic church or any religion with "leaders" then
> 
> for instance
> 
> _Proper_ Church for roman Catholics means a Church that is vactican controlled in every way including selection of priest, vetting sermons, monitoring the Christians attending, listening in to Confessions.
> 
> The relationship is between God and the man.
> 
> It is not a relationship between God and the Man as decided, guided and controlled by the pope/ Vatican Govt!!
> 
> Therefore, a _proper_ Church of the Vatican is no Church, but an extension of the Vatican Propaganda.
> 
> To hear and see Vatican Propaganda, why waste time in a Church. Turn on the (religious channel?) and watch it in the comfort of your house.



That is now the religion is administered.

One can't change the rules in such a way that the religion becomes irrelevant.


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## below_freezing

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> That is now the religion is administered.
> 
> One can't change the rules in such a way that the religion becomes irrelevant.


 
Why? Religion itself is just manmade rules!


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## Tiki Tam Tam

below_freezing said:


> Why? Religion itself is just manmade rules!



But those who believe in religion don't think these are man made rules, but something totally Divine.

I have not seen God and so I cannot vouch either way i.e. whether religion is of man made rules or Divine directed code of conduct.


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## Zaleph

I'm getting really tired of seeing comments like "Christians should be arrested for being Christians" or "Christians are just complete idiots and have no idea why they believe what they believe." 
I'm also tired of people using examples like "Christianity should be banned because a pastor beat a churchgoer that was late" or other such non-sense. 
If you're a Christian, you believe that the Bible is God's Word. You also believe that all people should be treated with respect, because God values each and every person on the planet. If there is a pastor who beats someone, then he should be arrested, because God's Word says so. 
If there is someone being violent, then they need to be restrained and punished, because that is failure to exhibit self-control. 
If ANYONE sins or does anything immoral, that does not mean that particular individual represents the religion that he claims to believe. The religion or ideals stand on their own, regardless of human activity. 
I could post trillions of murder, rape, and other horrible things that atheists do, but that wouldn't define atheism. In the same way, Christianity isn't defined by human actions....It's defined by GOD'S WORD. 
Please, don't be ignorant and know the difference for pete's sake.


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## Unbeliever

below_freezing said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-largest-christian-nation-mid-century-53.html
> 
> Without repression of Anglo Saxon traitors, our fate will be the same as that of the Jews under Nazi Germany. Indians should watch out as well.
> 
> When they came for the communists, I didn't speak out, because I wasn't a communist.
> When they came for the Jews, I didn't speak out, because I wasn't a jew.
> When they came for me, no one was left to speak out for me.



Wtf are you talking about man?

It looks like you might be suffering from schizophrenic paranoia... No one is coming for you.. calm down.. Don't smoke too much of that stuff at once!


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## Banana

Hope China would turn into another South Korea!


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## sur

below_freezing said:


> Christians should be arrested for disturbing public order. Just as I *do not want naked men running around* my children offering them candy, I also do not want Christians running around my children offering them bibles! I put Christians on the same list of "undesirables" as rapists and street thugs, they're below even corrupt officials and prostitutes in my book.
> 
> Corrupt officials steal money, which can be made back.
> Rapists, street thugs, and Christians steal things that can't be made back:
> 
> Your dignity, your life, and your mind.


=
=
Running around naked ,,,!!! *isn't that's what atheists and gays do all the time,,, * ,,, like every other day there's naked bike riders in Toronto...!!! 
=


below_freezing said:


> *Jews did not try to convert others to Judaism*, regardless of their other faults. Your racism and white supremacy on the other hand is far more disgusting.


Well , i think Jews didn't preach/convert ppl coz uptil recent past their overwhelming belief was that one born to jewish mother can be a jew... They did not believe in conversion,,, they considered themselves a "race" ...!!!



below_freezing said:


> Next time a christian tries to convert you, ask them a question:
> 
> 1.) Do you believe in the laws of physics? They answer yes.
> 2.) Is god all powerful? They answer yes.
> 
> Then pray to god to turn the thermal energy of a hot rock into kinetic energy and let it rise into the air while cooling down.


(Take it lightly bro  )


Do u believe there's a president in China???
Do u believe he can wash cars too???


*Then Ask Chinese president to come wash ur car!!! Before expecting much too BIGGER CREATOR to cater each individual for his stupid demands...*


Chinese-Dragon said:


> ... Absolutely unbelievable. They literally believe that the Earth was created exactly like the Bible said, *in seven days*. And they also think the Earth is only 10,000 years old! I wonder what they think about the fact that the rocks beneath our feet are already millions of years old.



I think it's *six* days...!!!

Well, I can't speak on behalf of christianity,,, but according to Quran each of heavenly-days is equivalent to *1000 years* according to our time ...  ...

our "Day" of 24 hrs is based on planet-earth's rotation ,,, when there was NO earth, u cannot presume a "day" to be 24 hr... !!! *it could possibly be time taken by one rotation of WHOLE universe...!!!*



xdrive said:


> LOL HAHAHA. are you serious? Islam actually teaches muslims *that they should try to convert* non muslims...


Somewhat Misleading statement ,,, islam teaches to *deliver the message* what we think is true & then leave it on person whether he wants to accept or pass ... Quran says:-"there is no compulsion in religion" ...

Like I know alcohol is known-carcinogen, I told one of my colleague to stop drinking coz it's a carcinogen,,, he laughed at me, & i left decision on him ... another time another colleague was drinking , I repeated same to her as well, she didn't agree so I left it on her to decide for herself ...!!!



below_freezing said:


> Why? Religion itself is just manmade rules!



If religion was man-made they would promote full-freedom in things men wanted,,, alcohol,* girls*, dancing, music, & all sorts of enjoyments ,,, but we see somewhat opposite in religion,,, religion puts certain LIMITs on all these fun-things ...

In fact I propose, those who want such above mentioned fun-things, restriction-free, but cannot stand the thought of a God putting limits on their enjoyments, become atheists ,,, also those who snap when taken thru "tests" of life ...


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## Icewolf

Islam is still the fastest growing religion in the world.


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## Facebooks

My Well Wishes for the Vatican Republic of China 



> Ten thousand Chinese become Christians each day, according to a stunning report by the National Catholic Reporter's veteran correspondent John Allen, and 200 million Chinese may comprise the world's largest concentration of Christians by mid-century, and *the largest missionary force in history.*



http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/IH07Ad03.html


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## cloud

ahh.. this was a nice thread even though I could read a few pages  .. But yes there are few faggots donkeys here who want to convert people in rural areas to Christians etc(not generalizing any religion specifically) .. offering a few hundred or thousands bucks, these poor people fall for it, and yes it does create a social issue in long term because simply these faggots have some mission or agenda behind them or else they wouldn't be using the unethical means??? is it?? They target children coming out of school and want to give lesson about some crap on the road.


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## Thomas

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> _Proper_ Church in China means a Church that is CCP controlled in every way including selection of priest, vetting sermons, monitoring the Christians attending, listening in to Confessions.
> 
> The relationship is between God and the man.
> 
> It is not a relationship between God and the Man as decided, guided and controlled by the CCP/ Chinese Govt!!
> 
> Therefore, a _proper_ Church of China is no Church, but an extension of the Party Propaganda.
> 
> To hear and see Party Propaganda, why waste time in a Church. Turn on the CCTV and watch it in the comfort of your house.




The CCP fears anything that influnces peoples hearts and actions that it can't control. Even the officailly sanctioned (self patriotic) church's in China comes under persecution when the Government feels they are growing to large.


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## CYNOX

*not buying it naa never! its just a silly joke. there is More Muslim Population in China than christian population and mojority of the population is Atheist. Islam is spreading quickly but in china religious preaching is prohibited so its not as fast as in Russia or USA. 
but CHINA could never become a christian majority nation in a 100 years Mark My words!*


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## Backbencher

How could they acheive this in such a short span of time  
Thread should have moved to funny and stupid section !!


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## Shinigami

Icewolf said:


> Islam is still the fastest growing religion in the world.



in terms of reproduction, yes
in terms of conversion, its still christianity


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## Nexus

update ?


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## Nexus

update ?


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## Borr

Chinese viewpoint about taking up a religion is to let go one's own right of judgement.

I dissuade every (chinese) from adopting a faith. The central piece is that you are your own's master.


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## wolfschanzze

CardSharp said:


> I truly hope not. I truly don't.


They will be unless they revert to Taoism,Confucianism and Buddhism!
Their whole existence is being threatened!
You cannot deny GOD and faith for long.It will eventually get you,if you have no explanations to phenomena.
Eventually all atheists become believers in God.


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## wolfschanzze

Syama Ayas said:


> Is there a concern that Christianity/foreign religion might affect the homogeneity of China?


Its not a concern but their utmost fear.
Thats why Muslims are checked thoroughly and Churches are too.
Why???
They never asked Buddhists or Hindus such things because they know in all their history we only contributed to them,we never tried to bring them down.
That is the difference.
China will only fall faster as long as they keep trying to put down Bharat,they should have realized that by now.


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