# KRISS VECTOR ASSAULT RIFLE Pakistan's sensible choice if made .



## kaonalpha

KRISS Vector





KRISS Vector




Vector CRB Carbine










TypeSubmachine gunPlace of origin United StatesProduction historyDesigned2006ManufacturerKRISS USA, Inc.Produced2009-presentVariantsSMG (submachine gun) CRB/SO (carbine, special ops)

SBR/SO (short barrel rifle, special ops,special duty pistol)
SpecificationsWeight6 lb (2.7 kg) (SMG & SBR/SO)
7 lb (3.2 kg) (CRB/SO)Length24.3 in (620 mm) (SMG & SBR/SO)
16 in (410 mm) w/stock folded
34.8 in (880 mm) (CRB/SO)
26.5 in (670 mm) w/stock foldedBarrel5.5 in (140 mm) (SMG, SBR/SO, SDP)
16 in (410 mm) (CRB/SO)
18.6 in (470 mm) (CRB/SO @ Canada)[5][not in citation given]Cartridge.45 ACP (11.43x23 mm)ActionDelayed blowback, closed boltRate of firePrototype: 1,500 rounds per minute
Vector SMG: 1,200 RPM[6]
Civilian models: semi-auto onlyEffective firing range55 yards (70 yards with 16 inch barrel)Feed system10 & 13-round detachable box magazine
25-round w/optional "MagEx 25+" extension[7]SightsFlip-up iron
MIL-STD-1913 rail provided for optics

The series is a family of weapons based upon the parent submachine gun design developed by KRISS USA. They use an unconventional delayed blowback system combined with in-line to reduce perceived recoil and muzzle climb.


The Vector's action, the KRISS Super V System (KSVS), is an articulated mechanism which allows the bolt and an inertia block to move downward into a recess behind the magazine well.[9][not in citation given]The theory is that at the end of this travel, energy is transmitted downward rather than rearward. On return, however that downward force is negated by upward force. The Vector family of weapons is the first to use this action. .40 S&W and 9×19mm Parabellum variants were mentioned when the gun was first released. Gen 2 variants with multiple design changes and 9mm were confirmed at the 2015 SHOT show. The firearm was designed to accept standard Glock 21 pistol magazines. When fired, the barrel axis is in line with the shoulder as in the M16 rifle, but also in line with the shooter's hand. This is intended to reduce muzzle climb when combined with the off-axis bolt travel.

Selective fire submachine gun variant, the features a 5.5 inch barrel, folding stock, flip-up Midwest Industries back-up iron sights (BUIS), Picatinny rails, and three-mode selective fire (single, two-round burst, full-auto).

Three semi-automatic versions are produced for the US Market. The is the semi-automatic carbine with a 16-inch (410 mm) barrel. The standard model has a folding stock (fixed in states where state law prohibits). The is a short-barreled version featuring the 5.5" SMG barrel but it is not capable of full automatic fire. The is a pistol version that has a permanently affixed cap with a sling mount in place of a folding stock. An enhanced version is sold with a full-length picatinny rail on top as well as an M4 carbine style collapsing stock in place of the folding stock.

A second generation version of the Vector called the was announced at SHOT Show 2011. This is a slightly more compact weapon based on the same Super V system. The main difference is the use of a telescopic stock that collapses into the upper receiver rather than the earlier folding stock. The cocking handle operates downward instead of horizontally. The K10 was not displayed after SHOT 2013 and its status is unknown.

KRISS is also developing a semi-automatic pistol called the "KARD", using the Super V System in a much smaller package to minimize recoil and muzzle rise in 9mm Parabellum and .45 ACP calibers. It will not have a blowback slide; instead it has a T-shaped cocking handle on the rear.






Or KRISS VECTIR PISTOL







*Having once the opertunity to use this weapon this is a lethal weapon. Which i personally belive can be an excellent asset to our forces.

Whats your opinion. ?

*


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## Armstrong

It looks more like a carpenter's tool than a firearm !  

Besides how are we going to pay for it ?

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## kaonalpha

Armstrong said:


> It looks more like a carpenter's tool than a firearm !
> 
> Besides how are we going to pay for it ?


A tool nonetheless light weight , simple and lethal.


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## Armstrong

kaonalpha said:


> A tool nonetheless light weight , simple and lethal.



I was under the impression that we were effectively broke and would only spend money on items that are absolutely essential to our survival !  

Wouldn't the trio of G3s (upgraded versions), Type 56s and MP5s do the job for now than to merit going for a new firearm that we may, in all possibility, cannot afford to go for ?

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## kamrananvaar

kaonalpha said:


> KRISS Vector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KRISS Vector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vector CRB Carbine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TypeSubmachine gunPlace of origin United StatesProduction historyDesigned2006ManufacturerKRISS USA, Inc.Produced2009-presentVariantsSMG (submachine gun) CRB/SO (carbine, special ops)
> 
> SBR/SO (short barrel rifle, special ops,special duty pistol)
> SpecificationsWeight6 lb (2.7 kg) (SMG & SBR/SO)
> 7 lb (3.2 kg) (CRB/SO)Length24.3 in (620 mm) (SMG & SBR/SO)
> 16 in (410 mm) w/stock folded
> 34.8 in (880 mm) (CRB/SO)
> 26.5 in (670 mm) w/stock foldedBarrel5.5 in (140 mm) (SMG, SBR/SO, SDP)
> 16 in (410 mm) (CRB/SO)
> 18.6 in (470 mm) (CRB/SO @ Canada)[5][not in citation given]Cartridge.45 ACP (11.43x23 mm)ActionDelayed blowback, closed boltRate of firePrototype: 1,500 rounds per minute
> Vector SMG: 1,200 RPM[6]
> Civilian models: semi-auto onlyEffective firing range55 yards (70 yards with 16 inch barrel)Feed system10 & 13-round detachable box magazine
> 25-round w/optional "MagEx 25+" extension[7]SightsFlip-up iron
> MIL-STD-1913 rail provided for optics
> 
> The series is a family of weapons based upon the parent submachine gun design developed by KRISS USA. They use an unconventional delayed blowback system combined with in-line to reduce perceived recoil and muzzle climb.
> 
> 
> The Vector's action, the KRISS Super V System (KSVS), is an articulated mechanism which allows the bolt and an inertia block to move downward into a recess behind the magazine well.[9][not in citation given]The theory is that at the end of this travel, energy is transmitted downward rather than rearward. On return, however that downward force is negated by upward force. The Vector family of weapons is the first to use this action. .40 S&W and 9×19mm Parabellum variants were mentioned when the gun was first released. Gen 2 variants with multiple design changes and 9mm were confirmed at the 2015 SHOT show. The firearm was designed to accept standard Glock 21 pistol magazines. When fired, the barrel axis is in line with the shoulder as in the M16 rifle, but also in line with the shooter's hand. This is intended to reduce muzzle climb when combined with the off-axis bolt travel.
> 
> Selective fire submachine gun variant, the features a 5.5 inch barrel, folding stock, flip-up Midwest Industries back-up iron sights (BUIS), Picatinny rails, and three-mode selective fire (single, two-round burst, full-auto).
> 
> Three semi-automatic versions are produced for the US Market. The is the semi-automatic carbine with a 16-inch (410 mm) barrel. The standard model has a folding stock (fixed in states where state law prohibits). The is a short-barreled version featuring the 5.5" SMG barrel but it is not capable of full automatic fire. The is a pistol version that has a permanently affixed cap with a sling mount in place of a folding stock. An enhanced version is sold with a full-length picatinny rail on top as well as an M4 carbine style collapsing stock in place of the folding stock.
> 
> A second generation version of the Vector called the was announced at SHOT Show 2011. This is a slightly more compact weapon based on the same Super V system. The main difference is the use of a telescopic stock that collapses into the upper receiver rather than the earlier folding stock. The cocking handle operates downward instead of horizontally. The K10 was not displayed after SHOT 2013 and its status is unknown.
> 
> KRISS is also developing a semi-automatic pistol called the "KARD", using the Super V System in a much smaller package to minimize recoil and muzzle rise in 9mm Parabellum and .45 ACP calibers. It will not have a blowback slide; instead it has a T-shaped cocking handle on the rear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or KRISS VECTIR PISTOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Having once the opertunity to use this weapon this is a lethal weapon. Which i personally belive can be an excellent asset to our forces.
> 
> Whats your opinion. ?
> 
> *


Stay clear of american items if we cant get transfer of technology like india does. Also usa is cosying upto india and more likely will slap some kind of sanctions while they get out of afghanistan . Its just a matter of time .

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## rockstarIN

Saw this gun firing in the movie 'gunman'


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## Skull and Bones

This is not an assault rifle, but a SMG at most.

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## masud

my choice is 
*AEK-971.............*
*



*

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## macnurv

I am no expert at firearms but have wasted enough hours of my life playing COD and BF online to know Vector aint an assualt rifle but a SMG.

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## Muhammad Omar

macnurv said:


> I am no expert at firearms but have wasted enough hours of my life playing COD and BF online to know Vector aint an assualt rifle but a SMG.



You are right  it's an SMG

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## kaonalpha

Kriss has plans on developing an assault rifle based on the kriss vector

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## untitled

Why will it be a sensible choice when current versions of this scalar/vector gun don't even fire rifle/assault rifle ammo?

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## Rashid Mahmood

G-3 will remain the main assault rifle of the PA.


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## Zarvan

kaonalpha said:


> KRISS Vector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KRISS Vector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vector CRB Carbine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TypeSubmachine gunPlace of origin United StatesProduction historyDesigned2006ManufacturerKRISS USA, Inc.Produced2009-presentVariantsSMG (submachine gun) CRB/SO (carbine, special ops)
> 
> SBR/SO (short barrel rifle, special ops,special duty pistol)
> SpecificationsWeight6 lb (2.7 kg) (SMG & SBR/SO)
> 7 lb (3.2 kg) (CRB/SO)Length24.3 in (620 mm) (SMG & SBR/SO)
> 16 in (410 mm) w/stock folded
> 34.8 in (880 mm) (CRB/SO)
> 26.5 in (670 mm) w/stock foldedBarrel5.5 in (140 mm) (SMG, SBR/SO, SDP)
> 16 in (410 mm) (CRB/SO)
> 18.6 in (470 mm) (CRB/SO @ Canada)[5][not in citation given]Cartridge.45 ACP (11.43x23 mm)ActionDelayed blowback, closed boltRate of firePrototype: 1,500 rounds per minute
> Vector SMG: 1,200 RPM[6]
> Civilian models: semi-auto onlyEffective firing range55 yards (70 yards with 16 inch barrel)Feed system10 & 13-round detachable box magazine
> 25-round w/optional "MagEx 25+" extension[7]SightsFlip-up iron
> MIL-STD-1913 rail provided for optics
> 
> The series is a family of weapons based upon the parent submachine gun design developed by KRISS USA. They use an unconventional delayed blowback system combined with in-line to reduce perceived recoil and muzzle climb.
> 
> 
> The Vector's action, the KRISS Super V System (KSVS), is an articulated mechanism which allows the bolt and an inertia block to move downward into a recess behind the magazine well.[9][not in citation given]The theory is that at the end of this travel, energy is transmitted downward rather than rearward. On return, however that downward force is negated by upward force. The Vector family of weapons is the first to use this action. .40 S&W and 9×19mm Parabellum variants were mentioned when the gun was first released. Gen 2 variants with multiple design changes and 9mm were confirmed at the 2015 SHOT show. The firearm was designed to accept standard Glock 21 pistol magazines. When fired, the barrel axis is in line with the shoulder as in the M16 rifle, but also in line with the shooter's hand. This is intended to reduce muzzle climb when combined with the off-axis bolt travel.
> 
> Selective fire submachine gun variant, the features a 5.5 inch barrel, folding stock, flip-up Midwest Industries back-up iron sights (BUIS), Picatinny rails, and three-mode selective fire (single, two-round burst, full-auto).
> 
> Three semi-automatic versions are produced for the US Market. The is the semi-automatic carbine with a 16-inch (410 mm) barrel. The standard model has a folding stock (fixed in states where state law prohibits). The is a short-barreled version featuring the 5.5" SMG barrel but it is not capable of full automatic fire. The is a pistol version that has a permanently affixed cap with a sling mount in place of a folding stock. An enhanced version is sold with a full-length picatinny rail on top as well as an M4 carbine style collapsing stock in place of the folding stock.
> 
> A second generation version of the Vector called the was announced at SHOT Show 2011. This is a slightly more compact weapon based on the same Super V system. The main difference is the use of a telescopic stock that collapses into the upper receiver rather than the earlier folding stock. The cocking handle operates downward instead of horizontally. The K10 was not displayed after SHOT 2013 and its status is unknown.
> 
> KRISS is also developing a semi-automatic pistol called the "KARD", using the Super V System in a much smaller package to minimize recoil and muzzle rise in 9mm Parabellum and .45 ACP calibers. It will not have a blowback slide; instead it has a T-shaped cocking handle on the rear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or KRISS VECTIR PISTOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Having once the opertunity to use this weapon this is a lethal weapon. Which i personally belive can be an excellent asset to our forces.
> 
> Whats your opinion. ?
> *


Pakistani soldiers would never accept this briefcase they like simple designs but @kaonalpha you would have not started this thread without a reason so what are you up to And Is what I told you about General Raheel visit to Lahore core and change of standard weapon true ?



Rashid Mahmood said:


> G-3 will remain the main assault rifle of the PA.


Some reports are now suggesting G3 has to go


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## Rashid Mahmood

Zarvan said:


> Some reports are now suggesting G3 has to go



Yes I have also heard some rumours, studies on new weapons are a regular process which cannot be considered as replacement options.

WAH is not planning any change in the near future.


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## Zarvan

Rashid Mahmood said:


> Yes I have also heard some rumours, studies on new weapons are a regular process which cannot be considered as replacement options.
> 
> WAH is not planning any change in the near future.


According to reports General Raheel in his last visit to Lahore core has told officers that Pakistan Army has decided to change its standard weapon G3.


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## Rashid Mahmood

Zarvan said:


> According to reports General Raheel in his last visit to Lahore core has told officers that Pakistan Army has decided to change its standard weapon G3.



I will inquire.
However, even if PA decides, it will take many years.
Lets hope they select a good weapon.


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## Zarvan

Rashid Mahmood said:


> I will inquire.
> However, even if PA decides, it will take many years.
> Lets hope they select a good weapon.


Please Sir I would appreciate it if you can get it confirmed ?

@Horus @Icarus @balixd Guys please check this thread @kaonalpha will not start a thread without a reason or information he has

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## Amaa'n

Zarvan said:


> Please Sir I would appreciate it if you can get it confirmed ?
> 
> @Horus @Icarus @balixd Guys please check this thread @kaonalpha will not start a thread without a reason or information he has


I have texted someone, lets see what the response is, about COAS statement.....
but Zarvan, we do not have possibly any use of this Weapon , its chambered in 9mm, its too bulky to be carried as PDW on security details, so think from your head.....why need 9mm round when we have already thrown it out of the window.....people are far better off with M-4s with 10.1" barrel......
about G-3 then again I have my doubts that will happen in near future....

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## Sine Nomine

@balixd @Zarvan @Rashid Mahmood New Assault Rifle is on Table but they say a Rifle capable of showing outstanding results in all fields and all kind of Terrain also caliber may be changed because we have learnt a hard lesson in last 10 years.

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## alikazmi007

Armstrong said:


> It looks more like a carpenter's tool than a firearm !
> 
> Besides how are we going to pay for it ?


Play some first person shooter games to find out how cool this gun is!


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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> I have texted someone, lets see what the response is, about COAS statement.....
> but Zarvan, we do not have possibly any use of this Weapon , its chambered in 9mm, its too bulky to be carried as PDW on security details, so think from your head.....why need 9mm round when we have already thrown it out of the window.....people are far better off with M-4s with 10.1" barrel......
> about G-3 then again I have my doubts that will happen in near future....


Sir when I look at this Gun I had to agree with you but the one who has started this thread has also previously told some great inside things so that is raising questions in my head.


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## kaonalpha

Zarvan said:


> Please Sir I would appreciate it if you can get it confirmed ?
> 
> @Horus @Icarus @balixd Guys please check this thread @kaonalpha will not start a thread without a reason or information he has


It is my personel opinion and nothing more


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## Zarvan

kaonalpha said:


> It is my personel opinion and nothing more


Really hard to believe


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## Amaa'n

قناص said:


> @balixd @Zarvan @Rashid Mahmood New Assault Rifle is on Table but they say a Rifle capable of showing outstanding results in all fields and all kind of Terrain also caliber may be changed because we have learnt a hard lesson in last 10 years.


there are also Trails for Side Arm, local and foreign are competing for it .....and considering the trails for Sniper Rifle, then why wouldn't they hold the trails for Assault.....but personally I havn't seen any evidence for that

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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> there are also Trails for Side Arm, local and foreign are competing for it .....and considering the trails for Sniper Rifle, then why wouldn't they hold the trails for Assault.....but personally I havn't seen any evidence for that


Sir Is MP5 retired if yes what is alternate submachine gun ?


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## Amaa'n

Zarvan said:


> Sir Is MP5 retired if yes what is alternate submachine gun ?


not retired, it is still in use with MPs on duty, also used used in Trainings.....actually FB is blocked with me, otherwise I had a pic of friend from BIC - Quetta, they still use those for CQB clearance ops training

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## Echo_419

kaonalpha said:


> KRISS Vector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KRISS Vector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vector CRB Carbine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TypeSubmachine gunPlace of origin United StatesProduction historyDesigned2006ManufacturerKRISS USA, Inc.Produced2009-presentVariantsSMG (submachine gun) CRB/SO (carbine, special ops)
> 
> SBR/SO (short barrel rifle, special ops,special duty pistol)
> SpecificationsWeight6 lb (2.7 kg) (SMG & SBR/SO)
> 7 lb (3.2 kg) (CRB/SO)Length24.3 in (620 mm) (SMG & SBR/SO)
> 16 in (410 mm) w/stock folded
> 34.8 in (880 mm) (CRB/SO)
> 26.5 in (670 mm) w/stock foldedBarrel5.5 in (140 mm) (SMG, SBR/SO, SDP)
> 16 in (410 mm) (CRB/SO)
> 18.6 in (470 mm) (CRB/SO @ Canada)[5][not in citation given]Cartridge.45 ACP (11.43x23 mm)ActionDelayed blowback, closed boltRate of firePrototype: 1,500 rounds per minute
> Vector SMG: 1,200 RPM[6]
> Civilian models: semi-auto onlyEffective firing range55 yards (70 yards with 16 inch barrel)Feed system10 & 13-round detachable box magazine
> 25-round w/optional "MagEx 25+" extension[7]SightsFlip-up iron
> MIL-STD-1913 rail provided for optics
> 
> The series is a family of weapons based upon the parent submachine gun design developed by KRISS USA. They use an unconventional delayed blowback system combined with in-line to reduce perceived recoil and muzzle climb.
> 
> 
> The Vector's action, the KRISS Super V System (KSVS), is an articulated mechanism which allows the bolt and an inertia block to move downward into a recess behind the magazine well.[9][not in citation given]The theory is that at the end of this travel, energy is transmitted downward rather than rearward. On return, however that downward force is negated by upward force. The Vector family of weapons is the first to use this action. .40 S&W and 9×19mm Parabellum variants were mentioned when the gun was first released. Gen 2 variants with multiple design changes and 9mm were confirmed at the 2015 SHOT show. The firearm was designed to accept standard Glock 21 pistol magazines. When fired, the barrel axis is in line with the shoulder as in the M16 rifle, but also in line with the shooter's hand. This is intended to reduce muzzle climb when combined with the off-axis bolt travel.
> 
> Selective fire submachine gun variant, the features a 5.5 inch barrel, folding stock, flip-up Midwest Industries back-up iron sights (BUIS), Picatinny rails, and three-mode selective fire (single, two-round burst, full-auto).
> 
> Three semi-automatic versions are produced for the US Market. The is the semi-automatic carbine with a 16-inch (410 mm) barrel. The standard model has a folding stock (fixed in states where state law prohibits). The is a short-barreled version featuring the 5.5" SMG barrel but it is not capable of full automatic fire. The is a pistol version that has a permanently affixed cap with a sling mount in place of a folding stock. An enhanced version is sold with a full-length picatinny rail on top as well as an M4 carbine style collapsing stock in place of the folding stock.
> 
> A second generation version of the Vector called the was announced at SHOT Show 2011. This is a slightly more compact weapon based on the same Super V system. The main difference is the use of a telescopic stock that collapses into the upper receiver rather than the earlier folding stock. The cocking handle operates downward instead of horizontally. The K10 was not displayed after SHOT 2013 and its status is unknown.
> 
> KRISS is also developing a semi-automatic pistol called the "KARD", using the Super V System in a much smaller package to minimize recoil and muzzle rise in 9mm Parabellum and .45 ACP calibers. It will not have a blowback slide; instead it has a T-shaped cocking handle on the rear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or KRISS VECTIR PISTOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Having once the opertunity to use this weapon this is a lethal weapon. Which i personally belive can be an excellent asset to our forces.
> 
> Whats your opinion. ?
> *



that's a SMG


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## kaonalpha

Echo_419 said:


> that's a SMG


Like I said above they are going to *develop * an assaultrifle rifle based on it.


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## rockstar08

Rashid Mahmood said:


> I will inquire.
> However, even if PA decides, it will take many years.
> Lets hope they select a good weapon.



why cant we Replace the Primary Gun form state to State ..
like first they buy replacement for Punjab , than KPK , Balochistan and later Sindh ? 
it will be easy no ?


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## SrNair

Funding???


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## Amaa'n

@Zarvan studies for new weapon are in progress......nothing concrete yet

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## Rashid Mahmood

Zarvan said:


> Please Sir I would appreciate it if you can get it confirmed ?






rockstar08 said:


> why cant we Replace the Primary Gun form state to State ..
> like first they buy replacement for Punjab , than KPK , Balochistan and later Sindh ?
> it will be easy no ?



It's not the police we are talking about.

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## rockstar08

Rashid Mahmood said:


> It's not the police we are talking about.



Obviously i know its not police , but i am asking cant we do the same with Army ? if not than why not ?
it will be much easier if we replace their primary weapon , state wise .. ?



SrNair said:


> Funding???



from Modi's Piggy bank ...

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## SecularNationalist

rockstarIN said:


> Saw this gun firing in the movie 'gunman'


That movie has a 17% rating .What a pity you wasted 2 hours of your life


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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> @Zarvan studies for new weapon are in progress......nothing concrete yet


Sir when this study is expected to be completed


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## That Guy

Zarvan said:


> Some reports are now suggesting G3 has to go


It's not a matter of "has to", it's a matter of "will it". Everyone knows that the G-3 must be replaced, but it probably won't be any time soon, mostly due to financial reasons.


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## Kompromat

Too expensive.


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## WaLeEdK2

I've been seeing many regulars using M4s. Could it be that PA already changed the standard rifle in secret? IMO it's quite possible. Army likes to keep many things secret.

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## Amaa'n

Zarvan said:


> Sir when this study is expected to be completed





Horus said:


> Too expensive.


a letter has been circulated about the directives of COAS- G3 is to be replaced with new service weapon.....
However no name has been mentioned.....will update once I hear further

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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> a letter has been circulated about the directives of COAS- G3 is to be replaced with new service weapon.....
> However no name has been mentioned.....will update once I hear further


I love you man thanks a lot. GEO HAZAR SAAL GEO.


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## kaonalpha

balixd said:


> a letter has been circulated about the directives of COAS- G3 is to be replaced with new service weapon.....
> However no name has been mentioned.....will update once I hear further


Do you have OS at your place

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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> a letter has been circulated about the directives of COAS- G3 is to be replaced with new service weapon.....
> However no name has been mentioned.....will update once I hear further


@Wolfhound was the first person who told me about COAS telling officers that Army is replacing G3

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## Wolfhound

Zarvan said:


> @Wolfhound was the first person who told me about COAS telling officers that Army is replacing G3


Thanks for the tag sir!



balixd said:


> not retired, it is still in use with MPs on duty, also used used in Trainings.....actually FB is blocked with me, otherwise I had a pic of friend from BIC - Quetta, they still use those for CQB clearance ops training


You mean the MP-5 is in the process of being changed? Please say yes!



rockstar08 said:


> Obviously i know its not police , but i am asking cant we do the same with Army ? if not than why not ?
> it will be much easier if we replace their primary weapon , state wise .. ?


It would be better if we do it combat arm wise. For example it would be better to give the weapon first to the ssg then infantry and then arty because infantry and ssg have more use for it, similarly we can sub divide it into who require it more e.g infantry units in operational areas would need it before those in non operational areas.



masud said:


> my choice is
> *AEK-971.............*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


In my own opinion HK-417 would be the best fit for changing the G-3 this is because of the following.
1 G-3 and HK-417 would be of the same caliber(7.62) so cost saving in logistics.
2 G-3 and HK-417 have similar magazines which will once again save logistical costs.
3 It is a German Manufactured weapon which makes it high quality.
4 Germany doesnt have a problem with manufacturing licenses in small arms(It has already given Pakistan many manufacturing licenses already so a new one wont be hard) and may even give TOT.

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## Zarvan

Wolfhound said:


> Thanks for the tag sir!
> 
> 
> You mean its in the process of being changed? Please say yes!
> 
> 
> It would be better if we do it combat arm wise. For example it would be better to give the weapon first to the ssg then infantry and then arty because infantry and ssg have more use for it, similarly we can sub divide it into who require it more e.g infantry units in operational areas would need it before those in non operational areas.


Yes @balixd said yes that is why letter is issued


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## Wolfhound

Zarvan said:


> Yes @balixd said yes that is why letter is issued


My bad, I meant MP-5 with a newer submachine gun.

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## Zarvan

Wolfhound said:


> My bad, I meant MP-5 with a newer submachine gun.


Well let's hope it also is changed soon


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## Amaa'n

kaonalpha said:


> Do you have OS at your place


OS??operating system?


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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> a letter has been circulated about the directives of COAS- G3 is to be replaced with new service weapon.....
> However no name has been mentioned.....will update once I hear further


A Friend has told me that some MPT-76 have arrived in Pakistan for testing @Hakan @balixd @Horus @Irfan Baloch



Wolfhound said:


> Thanks for the tag sir!
> 
> 
> You mean the MP-5 is in the process of being changed? Please say yes!
> 
> 
> It would be better if we do it combat arm wise. For example it would be better to give the weapon first to the ssg then infantry and then arty because infantry and ssg have more use for it, similarly we can sub divide it into who require it more e.g infantry units in operational areas would need it before those in non operational areas.
> 
> In my own opinion HK-417 would be the best fit for changing the G-3 this is because of the following.
> 1 G-3 and HK-417 would be of the same caliber(7.62) so cost saving in logistics.
> 2 G-3 and HK-417 have similar magazines which will once again save logistical costs.
> 3 It is a German Manufactured weapon which makes it high quality.
> 4 Germany doesnt have a problem with manufacturing licenses in small arms(It has already given Pakistan many manufacturing licenses already so a new one wont be hard) and may even give TOT.


It may raise issue now but MPT-76 have arrived

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## Amaa'n

Zarvan said:


> A Friend has told me that some MPT-76 have arrived in Pakistan for testing @Hakan @balixd @Horus @Irfan Baloch
> 
> 
> It may raise issue now but MPT-76 have arrived


not sure, back in 2014 news was Sarsilmaz 556 going to be imported by PoF, as they already had deals on pistol.....don't know what happened after that.....may be MKeK offered better

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## kaonalpha

SUN TECH SYSTEMS. Your army , navy or airforce. ?


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## Wolfhound

balixd said:


> not sure, back in 2014 news was Sarsilmaz 556 going to be imported by PoF, as they already had deals on pistol.....don't know what happened after that.....may be MKeK offered better


Which Turkish assault rifle are you talking about?


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## Amaa'n

Wolfhound said:


> Which Turkish assault rifle are you talking about?


i never said anything about Mkek, Zarvan is saying MPT-76 is under trail in Pakistan.....



kaonalpha said:


> SUN TECH SYSTEMS. Your army , navy or airforce. ?


kiya ho gya hai??kia bolay ja rahe ho janab


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## kaonalpha

balixd said:


> i never said anything about Mkek, Zarvan is saying MPT-76 is under trail in Pakistan.....
> 
> 
> kiya ho gya hai??kia bolay ja rahe ho janab


leave it


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## Zarvan

Wolfhound said:


> Which Turkish assault rifle are you talking about?





Wolfhound said:


> @Zarvan i got my own confirmation!
> View attachment 240440


@balixd @Icarus @kaonalpha

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## Amaa'n

Zarvan said:


> @balixd @Icarus @kaonalpha


yes, same letter

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## Zarvan

balixd said:


> yes, same letter


Can I share this letter on Facebook ? @Icarus @Horus @kaonalpha @Irfan Baloch ?


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## Irfan Baloch

Zarvan said:


> Can I share this letter on Facebook ? @Icarus @Horus @kaonalpha @Irfan Baloch ?


sure your judgement dear.
just be mindful that while sharing any images you are careful that you don't give away any secret information on the way official memos look like
just recreate the contents if you must

think about this. an authentic and official memo with authorised signature about something very trivial and unimportant but for someone the interesting part will be to copy the singature and design and wording of the memo and then recreate something else to make it look offcial and authentic somewhere and suddenly you see being flashed on NDTV saying look GHQ ordered the massacre in MUMbai and look at the letter head and the signature
something on that line do you understand or do you need @Icarus to explain better?)

by the way I like that in the image the header is cut out and no coding or dept name or number is shown



Armstrong said:


> It looks more like a carpenter's tool than a firearm !
> 
> Besides how are we going to pay for it ?


gun is too exotic and extra ordinary to be adapted as a standard issue for regular forces. and our special forces already have a long and establish assortment of weapons.

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## Zarvan

Irfan Baloch said:


> sure your judgement dear.
> just be mindful that while sharing any images you are careful that you don't give away any secret information on the way official memos look like
> just recreate the contents if you must
> 
> think about this. an authentic and official memo with authorised signature about something very trivial and unimportant but for someone the interesting part will be to copy the singature and design and wording of the memo and then recreate something else to make it look offcial and authentic somewhere and suddenly you see being flashed on NDTV saying look GHQ ordered the massacre in MUMbai and look at the letter head and the signature
> something on that line do you understand or do you need @Icarus to explain better?)
> 
> by the way I like that in the image the header is cut out and no coding or dept name or number is shown
> 
> 
> gun is too exotic and extra ordinary to be adapted as a standard issue for regular forces. and our special forces already have a long and establish assortment of weapons.


That is why I asked Sir I am not interested in getting picked by agencies or ending up in missing persons list

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## kaonalpha

Zarvan said:


> Can I share this letter on Facebook ? @Icarus @Horus @kaonalpha @Irfan Baloch ?


No



kaonalpha said:


> No





Wolfhound said:


> @Zarvan i got my own confirmation!
> View attachment 240440


Delete this letter .

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## Zarvan

kaonalpha said:


> No


Thanks for the answer now I won't by the way Which Guns have arrived by now I don't think we would just test MPT-76 we would test several Guns ?


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## Wolfhound

kaonalpha said:


> No
> 
> 
> 
> Delete this letter .


Already done And my bad.

@cabatli_53 since the MPT-76 is here for testing can you give us it's and it's variants specifications.


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## cabatli_53

Zarvan said:


> A Friend has told me that some MPT-76 have arrived in Pakistan for testing @Hakan @balixd @Horus @Irfan Baloch
> 
> 
> It may raise issue now but MPT-76 have arrived




Great news bro.
Hope MPT-76 passes all trials and Oficials will be satisfied all performance.

You can see trials of MPT-76

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## Zarvan

cabatli_53 said:


> Great news bro.
> Hope MPT-76 passes all trials and Oficials will be satisfied all performance.
> 
> You can see trials of MPT-76


We will test other Guns also I hope FN SCAR and HK-417 are also tested



Wolfhound said:


> Already done And my bad.
> 
> @cabatli_53 since the MPT-76 is here for testing can you give us it's and it's variants specifications.


Ask your sources Which other Guns they would test also ?

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## Wolfhound

Zarvan said:


> We will test other Guns also I hope FN SCAR and HK-417 are also tested
> 
> 
> Ask your sources Which other Guns they would test also ?


 Okay I'll ask them 



cabatli_53 said:


> Great news bro.
> Hope MPT-76 passes all trials and Oficials will be satisfied all performance.
> 
> You can see trials of MPT-76


 Thanks for the video sir. The only thing i find negative about it are is its size (it's a huge weapon even with the stock collapsed) and it's recoil. Both of these are only a bit less than the G3. Other than this I would say that this is one of the best weapons out there and an extremely reliable and potent one.

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## Zarvan

Wolfhound said:


> Okay I'll ask them
> 
> Thanks for the video sir. The only thing i find negative about it are is its size (it's a huge weapon even with the stock collapsed) and it's recoil. Both of these are only a bit less than the G3. Other than this I would say that this is one of the best weapons out there and an extremely reliable and potent one.
















It has same size as FN SCAR or HK-417 and far shorter in size than G3. For me the only backdrop is that is has only 20 round magazine. The only question is weather it would survive desert tests

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## Wolfhound

Zarvan said:


> View attachment 240492
> 
> View attachment 240493
> 
> View attachment 240494
> 
> It has same size as FN SCAR or HK-417 and far shorter in size than G3. For me the only backdrop is that is has only 20 round magazine. The only question is weather it would survive desert tests


 It has only 2 problems, Its real problem is its recoil, they should incorporate recoil reducing elements in it. Its weight is also a problem, it weighs 4.18 kg(without magazine) which should be reduced to atleast 3.8kg or less(with a magazine). The 20 round magazines are a good thing, we can interchange the magazines with the G-3 and reduce costs. As for the tests it will ace them because i saw the vigorous tests it went through before production, p.s they are made for hot and high environments. Even with the issues i see i can say that this rifle is fit for us and one of the best in the world. If it amends the aforementioned problems it will become the best in the world.


And I got the official specifications

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## Zarvan

Wolfhound said:


> It has only 2 problems, Its real problem is its recoil, they should incorporate recoil reducing elements in it. Its weight is also a problem, it weighs 4.18 kg(without magazine) which should be reduced to atleast 3.8kg or less(with a magazine). The 20 round magazines are a good thing, we can interchange the magazines with the G-3 and reduce costs. As for the tests it will ace them because i saw the vigorous tests it went through before production, p.s they are made for hot and high environments. Even with the issues i see i can say that this rifle is fit for us and one of the best in the world. If it amends the aforementioned problems it will become the best in the world.
> 
> 
> And I got the official specifications
> View attachment 240520


I would only suggest it best for us when I would know which are other Guns I mean which other Guns we would test ?


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## cabatli_53

Wolfhound said:


> It has only 2 problems, Its real problem is its recoil, they should incorporate recoil reducing elements in it. Its weight is also a problem, it weighs 4.18 kg(without magazine) which should be reduced to atleast 3.8kg or less(with a magazine). The 20 round magazines are a good thing, we can interchange the magazines with the G-3 and reduce costs. As for the tests it will ace them because i saw the vigorous tests it went through before production, p.s they are made for hot and high environments. Even with the issues i see i can say that this rifle is fit for us and one of the best in the world. If it amends the aforementioned problems it will become the best in the world.
> 
> 
> And I got the official specifications
> View attachment 240520



Bro, You said the weight of rifle is a problem but You should know that MPT-76 has a less weight than equivalent HK-417 in same length.

*HK417 A2 - CAL. 7.62 MM X 51 NATO*
Length: 994mm
Barrel Length: 419mm
*Weight: 4,4kg (without magazine)*


*HK417 A2 - CAL. 7.62 MM X 51 NATO*
Length: 904mm
Barrel Length: 330mm
*Weight: 4,22kg (without magazine)*


*MPT-76 - CAL. 7.62 MM X 51 NATO*
Length: 900-1000mm
Barrel Length: 406mm
*Weight: 4,18kg (without magazine)*

Secondly, Recoils of all 7,62mm x 51 NATO munitions are around similar standarts. It is same for MPT-76. It is checked seriously on trials thanks to softwares and passed all trials so It is passed into serial production phase. Otherwise, Turkish Army would never accept a rifle which has a recoil problem. You can see the performance of MPT-76 in mudy, rainy and frozen conditions in that video.






Turkish Army selected 3E EOS sight system called AVCI for MPT rifles.






IDEF 2015: 3E EOS AVCI scope selected for MPT-76 rifle - IHS Jane's 360
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





MPT variants !

DMR semi automatic





MPT 5.56x45mm model and 9mm SMG on wall





308 Win Bolt-Action sniper






Note: *KaleKalip* is the actual designer of MPT.

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## Thorough Pro

Lethality is in the ammo not the weapon, weapons are reliable, durable and accurate. What makes you recommend this joke of a rifle for military use? 





kaonalpha said:


> Having once the opertunity to use this weapon *this is a lethal weapon*. *Which i personally belive can be an excellent asset to our forces.*
> 
> *Whats your opinion*. ?





kaonalpha said:


> KRISS Vector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KRISS Vector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vector CRB Carbine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TypeSubmachine gunPlace of origin United StatesProduction historyDesigned2006ManufacturerKRISS USA, Inc.Produced2009-presentVariantsSMG (submachine gun) CRB/SO (carbine, special ops)
> 
> SBR/SO (short barrel rifle, special ops,special duty pistol)
> SpecificationsWeight6 lb (2.7 kg) (SMG & SBR/SO)
> 7 lb (3.2 kg) (CRB/SO)Length24.3 in (620 mm) (SMG & SBR/SO)
> 16 in (410 mm) w/stock folded
> 34.8 in (880 mm) (CRB/SO)
> 26.5 in (670 mm) w/stock foldedBarrel5.5 in (140 mm) (SMG, SBR/SO, SDP)
> 16 in (410 mm) (CRB/SO)
> 18.6 in (470 mm) (CRB/SO @ Canada)[5][not in citation given]Cartridge.45 ACP (11.43x23 mm)ActionDelayed blowback, closed boltRate of firePrototype: 1,500 rounds per minute
> Vector SMG: 1,200 RPM[6]
> Civilian models: semi-auto onlyEffective firing range55 yards (70 yards with 16 inch barrel)Feed system10 & 13-round detachable box magazine
> 25-round w/optional "MagEx 25+" extension[7]SightsFlip-up iron
> MIL-STD-1913 rail provided for optics
> 
> The series is a family of weapons based upon the parent submachine gun design developed by KRISS USA. They use an unconventional delayed blowback system combined with in-line to reduce perceived recoil and muzzle climb.
> 
> 
> The Vector's action, the KRISS Super V System (KSVS), is an articulated mechanism which allows the bolt and an inertia block to move downward into a recess behind the magazine well.[9][not in citation given]The theory is that at the end of this travel, energy is transmitted downward rather than rearward. On return, however that downward force is negated by upward force. The Vector family of weapons is the first to use this action. .40 S&W and 9×19mm Parabellum variants were mentioned when the gun was first released. Gen 2 variants with multiple design changes and 9mm were confirmed at the 2015 SHOT show. The firearm was designed to accept standard Glock 21 pistol magazines. When fired, the barrel axis is in line with the shoulder as in the M16 rifle, but also in line with the shooter's hand. This is intended to reduce muzzle climb when combined with the off-axis bolt travel.
> 
> Selective fire submachine gun variant, the features a 5.5 inch barrel, folding stock, flip-up Midwest Industries back-up iron sights (BUIS), Picatinny rails, and three-mode selective fire (single, two-round burst, full-auto).
> 
> Three semi-automatic versions are produced for the US Market. The is the semi-automatic carbine with a 16-inch (410 mm) barrel. The standard model has a folding stock (fixed in states where state law prohibits). The is a short-barreled version featuring the 5.5" SMG barrel but it is not capable of full automatic fire. The is a pistol version that has a permanently affixed cap with a sling mount in place of a folding stock. An enhanced version is sold with a full-length picatinny rail on top as well as an M4 carbine style collapsing stock in place of the folding stock.
> 
> A second generation version of the Vector called the was announced at SHOT Show 2011. This is a slightly more compact weapon based on the same Super V system. The main difference is the use of a telescopic stock that collapses into the upper receiver rather than the earlier folding stock. The cocking handle operates downward instead of horizontally. The K10 was not displayed after SHOT 2013 and its status is unknown.
> 
> KRISS is also developing a semi-automatic pistol called the "KARD", using the Super V System in a much smaller package to minimize recoil and muzzle rise in 9mm Parabellum and .45 ACP calibers. It will not have a blowback slide; instead it has a T-shaped cocking handle on the rear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or KRISS VECTIR PISTOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Having once the opertunity to use this weapon this is a lethal weapon. Which i personally belive can be an excellent asset to our forces.
> 
> Whats your opinion. ?
> *


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Arya Desa said:


> pakistan should adopt this gun. It's won 3 wars already.



Thanks nigga.. But you already provided shitlosf of these rifles to Pak in the only war it was used in:







They didn't like em.. FN FALs tetarded cousins made by a carpenter... (Nor did the Nepalis whom you donated these too)..,

@Irfan Baloch. Insect infestation alert..

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## Azeri440

Armstrong said:


> It looks more like a* carpenter's tool* than a firearm !
> 
> Besides how are we going to pay for it ?

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